WILLIAM L.
CLEMENTS
LIBRARY
University of Michigan
WALDRON









-







THE GING MURDER
– AND THE –
|| || ||\\\\\|| ||\|.
THE OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Containing Every Word of the Wonderful Trial From its Opening to Sentence of Death;
the Rulings of the Court; Speeches of Frank M. Nye, W. W. Erwin
Albert H. Hall and John Day Smith; the Court's
Charge, Etc., Etc.
– SUPPLEMENTED BY —
A DRAMATIC STORY OF THE GREAT CRIME
– BY –
OSCAR F. G. DAY,
Author of “A Mistaken Identity,” “The Devil's Gold,” “A Crown of Shame," Etc.
COPYRIGHTED BY
THE MINNESOTA TRIBUNE COMPANY.
1895.


PREF ACE.
It has often been argued that truth is stranger than fiction. That the
argument is sometimes true, a perusal of this volume will prove, for
no chronicle of the most realistic writer of French fiction ever matched
the story, the incidents in these pages. They portray a character new
to psychology, an almost impossible type of man, in Harry T. Hayward,
a young society man, who plotted the death of a sweet loving woman,
his fiance, in order to secure $10,000 life insurance money.
The bare proposition, while wonderful in itself, is but the merest point,
upon which the dramatic details are based. The wonderful plotting, the
inducing of Claus A. Blixt to commit the murder, the painstaking plans
to cover up the tracks of the crime, the making the victim provide proofs
of innocence for her murderer, the hellish schemes for the perpetrating
of the crime, must be read to be appreciated in their full force. Hun-
dreds of attorneys followed the trial, and they all stamped it the most
wonderful in criminal history. - - -
THE MINNEAPOLIS TRIBUNE issues this book in response to
an overwhelming popular demand. Its official stenographic report of
the trial made for it a world wide reputation, and the orders from the
city and country, and even from foreign parts, for back numbers of the
paper, ran out the editions, and hence the book. This report, found in
part two of this volume, contains every word used at the trial, the
rulings of the court, the speeches of the attorneys, Frank M. Nye, W.
W. Erwin, Albert H. Hall, and John Day Smith, the official verdict,
and the sentence of death. It chronicles with vivid exactness the strug-
gle for a life, shows how a family was rent asunder, how a mother and
father saw an attempt to sacrifice the life of the elder son Adry, if nec-
essary, in order to save the pet of the family; to place the noose about
the neck of the less favored son, to save his younger brother.
The report gives the confessions of Claus A. Blixt, the most startling
story of plot after plot ever told on the witness stand, the statement of
Adry Hayward showing how his brother tried to make him an ac-
complice, the attempts to prove Adry insane, made by his family, the
4. - THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
-
rulings of the court keeping out the insanity theory, and a thousand
and one other startling incidents, making an invaluable souvenir of the
trial, and a record for legal libraries.
The verbatim report is introduced by a dramatic story of the plot and
murder, the lives of the principals during the period in which the plot
was hatching, the cruel murder, and the attendant mystery. It reads
like the romances of French writers, with crime as the plot. In the
story is contained much of the unpublished testimony, that was ruled out
at the trial, making the whole plot clearer. The Stewart letter, which
many believe was a myth, is reproduced, also portions of Blixt's state-
ment which show other crimes being plotted by the convicted man. A
graphic portrayal of the wonderful character of the man with iron nerve
is given, a character that has caused comment in the world of physics,
where experts have discussed it, and used it as a basis for innumerable
lectures. • -
The official report, found in these pages, was stamped with the ap-
proval of the trial judge, was referred to during the trial by him, and
was used by the county attorney in his cross-examination of witnesses.
It was the first time on record where a newspaper report was used in
the actual trial of a case, and while the reliability of newspaper reports
in general is often called in question, in the trial of a capital case, where
a life hung in the balance, where correctness was imperative, the great
report of THE MINNEAPOLISTRIBUNE, was used as a reference,
upon which to base vital questions.



CATHERINE M. GING, THE MURDERED won AN.

-
II AIRTRY
º
º
º
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º
T.
HAYWARD.

A. BLIXT,
THE SELF CONFESSED MURDERER.

A DRY A. HAY WARD.

THE OLD EXCELSIOR ROAD LOOKING SOUTHWEST TOWARDS Excelsion.
Spot Where Body was Found Indicated by Figure of Tribune Reporter.


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：

No. 1.
No 3.
No. 5
Ex-Mayor W. H. Eustis. No. 2. Sher'ff John E. Holmberg.
Deputy Sheriff Anderson. No. 4. Ex-Sheriff J. H. Ege.
Chief Deputy Phil Megaarden. No. 6. Deputy Sheriff Sirois.
No. 7. Deputy Sheriff Wall.

No. 2. Stenographer Gustave M. Wing.
Stenographer Joseph A. Sawyer.
No. 3.
No. 1. Judge Seagrave Smith.

No. 1. County Attorney Frank M. Nye. No. 2. Asst. County Atty. Albert H. Hall.
No. 3. Attorney W. W. Erwin. No. 4. Attorney W. A. Shumaker.
No. 5. Attorney John Day Smith.

1. John Denny. 4. N. McNeil. 7. J.
2. John Smith. 5. L. nu say … ebb. S. S.
3. John M. Kimball. º, C. S. Pºll tº Q. C.
olan Dunn. 10. M. Eckes.
H. Dyer. 11. Benj. T. Dickey.
has. A. Prºbble. 12. B. H. Timberlake.

|
No. 3.
No. 2. Labor Temple, Where the Trial was Held.
The Ozark Flats.
Hennepin County Jail.
No. 1.

The Man
W.M. ERHARDT,
Who Found the Body of the
Murdered Woman.
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THE HISTORY
OF
THE GING MURDER
AND REVIEW OF
HAY WARD THRTAL
THE MYSTERY.
Minnesota's Winter was tardy in cement-
ing its fetters of ice and snow about old
mother earth in the year 1894, and when
the third day of December had marked the
page of history, the virgin snows of an
early winter had not yet painted the land-
scape with its robe of Parian white.
A few miles from the business center of
Minneapolis, that metropolis that so proud-
ly rears itself by the side of the waters of
the upper Mississippi, lie two sheets of
water, that have been taken into the park
system of that fair city. Lake Calhoun
and the Lake of the Isles, separated from
each other only by a narrow spread of land
covered with native trees, were frozen
over, and hundreds of the youth and beauty
of Minneapolis disported themselves upon
steel runners beneath the light of the cres-
cent moon. Around the eastern shore of
Lake Calhoun winds a wide driveway, un-
til it passes the lake, and then loses itself
in its windings toward the country, until
a mile away it passes between tall trees
through dismal swamps.
An electric car passes along the left side.
of the road for a distance, then branches off
to the right, and cuts through high banks
where the hill has been pierced. A few resi-
dents nestle among the trees on adjoining
hillsides, but for the most part the scene
is lonesome and drear, and in the light of
the waning moon it is doubly so. Farther
out the road rises to a slight hill, and then
passes through a tamarack swamp. All is
silent, nothing is to be seen but the light
of a lamp twinkling from the window of a
lonely residence upon the hill.
The waning moon descends to the horizon,
until its crescent shape is cut into fantastic
patterns by the top branches of the leafless
trees. Ever and anon, wafted by the faint
breezes, comes the faint voice of the merry
skaters, and often the quick, sharp report
of the cracking ice is heard as old Boreas
rends its frozen surface with his icy hand.
It is nearly 8 o'clock, when the report of a
firearm is heard. Few hear it among those
hundreds of skaters, and it is hardly no-
ticed. It is probably some merrymaker, fir-
ing off his revolver as he walks down the
road. Then all is silent again. -
Suddenly the sound of hoofs is heard
upon the frozen ground, coming from a
distance out the road. Then there is the
rumble of an electric car, the flash of its
lights as it passes around the end of the
lake. It runs along and stops just where
the track branches from the boulevard,
and a passenger alights and proceeds up
the road. It is William Erhardt, a young
man who is returning home to that lonely
house on the hillside. He has proceeded
but a short distance, when he hears the

18 | THE HISTORY OF T HE GING MURDER.
sound of hoofs, sees a light colored borse
coming on the gallop, drawing a light
buggy with its top up. He steps to one
side of the road to let it pass, and the
rig turns the other way. He stops to look
after it, wondering why a man should be
driving at such a pace. He does not see
the features of the man in the buggy. The
sound of the hoofs becomes lost in the dis-
tance toward the far gleaming lights of
the city; then he proceeds on his way.
It is a lonely road, and a lonely hour,
but the young man has traversed it many
a time, and he walks on merrily. Suddenly
he sees a dark object lying at the side of
the road in front of him. For a moment
he is startled and falters. Then he gains
courage to proceed. Closer and closer he
advances; gradually the object assumes a
shape. Horror steals upon him as he
realizes that a human body lies before him
in the road.
Instantly his mind reverts to that gallop-
ing horse, and he mutters to himself that
it is a runaway accident. He is hurrying
now, for he realizes that life may not be
extinct and aid must be summoned. As
he approaches the form he discovers it to
be that of a woman, a large woman. The
body lies diagonally on the road, near one
side, the head toward the lake, the cloth-
ing so fallen about the figure as to dis-
close the limbs to the knees, slightly
drawn up. The body lies partly upon its
side, partly upon its face, one arm under
it, the other outstretched. The cheek is
on the frozen ground, beneath the face is
a pool of still steaming blood. A goat skin
robe is tangled up with the form, partly
under it and between the arm and body.
Erhardt leaned over the body, and felt
the hand. It was clothed in a black mit-
ten, and the wrist was warm. Without
investigating further, he ran to his home
for assistance, his brothers responding at
once. Dr. William Russell was summoned,
and a half hour afterward was driving his
fast horse to the scene; telephone messages
to the police station sent the patrol wagon
with its stretcher under an emergency call
to that lonely spot, and the excitement be-
gan to brew.
In the meantime, Frank C. Erhardt had
secured a lantern, and proceeded to what
was then thought to have been an acci-
dent. He examined the body and the im-
mediate vicinity closely. The body was
yet warm. At its feet, about eight inches
away, was the mark of the heel of a
woman’s shoe in the dust of the frozen
road. About four inches from that heel
mark, and ending where the toe rested,
was a mark in the dust as if the toe had
scraped in the dust, after the fall. It
looked as if the woman had fallen upon
her feet, and then pitched forward upon
her face. She could only be stunned.
Erhardt waited there, and finally the clat-
tering of hoofs and the light of lanterns
brought the patrol wagon. It drew up
with Police Officers Peter Fox and Chas.
H. Moore. Shortly afterward Dr. Russell
arrived, examined the body and pronounced
the woman dead.
While he was examining the corpse the
officers and three men who had come in the
wagon examined the locality for several
hundred feet, but found no clues. The
wagon drove away, and not long afterward
the body was at the morgue, resting upon
a marble slab. John F. Walsh, the
morgue keeper, in stripping the body of
its bloody apparel, found a laundry mark
upon the clothing. It was but one word,
“Ging.” In the silence of that cold, damp
room the dead woman lay, awaiting the
coming of the coroner. The hours wore
away, and nothing further was done. It
was a sad accident, and the morning would
bring the news to the friends of the unfor-
tunate wonan. That she belonged to the
better class was evident, for she wore a
sealskin jacket of the finest quality. Fi-
nally Walsh washed the body and laid it
out.
It was 11 o’clock, three hours after the
accident, when Coroner Willis P. Spring
reached the morgue and examined the re-
mains. He found a bruise on the lip where
it was cut, a broken nose, a bruise over the
right eye, and the left eye pushed from its
socket. In pushing it back into place his
finger encountered a hard object, which,
upon investigation, proved to be a battered
bullet. In an instant excitement moved
him to quicker action.
It was murder or suicide.
With feverish haste he examined the
head, felt among the bloody strangs of dis-
heveled hair, and there, a few inches from
the right ear, found the skull punctured
by a ball.
The bullet, which he found near the left
eye ball, had passed completely through
the head. The pistol shot had been the
cause of death. The unfortunate woman
must have shot herself, and then been
thrown from the buggy by its jolting.
While these events were transpiring there
was a different scene in another part of
the city. A mile and a half from the cen-
ter of the city is the livery stable of
George Gossman. At about 9 o'clock Henry
Gilbert, the barn man in charge, heard
the sound of horse’s hoofs coming into
the barn, and came to the floor to meet it.
The rig came in alone, but he paid no at-
tention to that, for the reason that horses
were often left to walk in alone. The
buckskin mare that had gone out early in
the evening stopped in the center of the
floor, and Gilbert pulled the lines from
where they lay loosely on the dash board
and unhitched the mare, sending her to her
stall. Then he went to take the robe from
the buggy, and found that it was not
there. There was a strange odor coming
from the interior of the vehicle. He looked
closer and thought the cushion
peculiar.
In its center was a pool of clotted blood,
a half inch thick, as large as a sheet of
legal paper.
He inspected the rig more closely. Inside
the top were splashes of blood, on the
back cushion was blood, on the buggy bot-
tom was blood, blood everywhere except
on the lines he had handled.
Murder must have been done.
On one of the bows which supported the
top was blood as if it had been handled
by a bloody hand.
The police were notified. The barn reg-
ister was consulted. The rig had been used
by Catherine Ging, a stylish dressmaker
who had an establishment in the Syndicate
Block, and who resided at the Ozark flats,
a fashionable apartment house.
looked












THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 19
The police went to work at once. Sergt.
Henry L. Getchell, with Officers Lincoln
Bean R. A. Plummer and John Fay, took
buggies and lanterns and drove to the
scene of the tragedy. They found tracks
where a buggy had turned around about 50
feet from where the body lay, and marks
of footprints, one of pointed toed shoes.
That wheel mark was that of a buggy with
narrower wheels than the rest of the ve-
nicles which had been at the spot. Noth-
ing more was found, no revolver, no clue
to the murderer, or proof that it was sui-
cide.
At the Ozark flats another scene was being
enacted. The police and newspaper men
had been informed of the occurrence and
they proceeded at once to that point. The
rooms of Catherine Ging were occupied by
Louise Ireland, her neice, who was her as-
sistant in business and lived with her. She
must be informed, and some clue obtained.
While the officers were there.
George and Harry Goosman
came to the telephone to send mes-
sages of inquiry in regard to the finding of
the body. Meanwhile Harry T. Hayward,
son of the owner of the flats, came in, hav-
ing returned from taking Miss Mabel Bar-
telson home from the Grand Opera House,
where they had been to see the play. There
he learned of the accident. That death had
resulted from a bullet wound had not yet
been learned by those present.
Miss Ireland was informed and was fran-
tic with grief. Nothing could be learned
from her. Hayward went at once to police
headquarters to learn particulars. He took
Emil Ferrant with him. In the police sta-
tion he stated that in his opinion Miss
Ging had been murdered, and murdered
for her money.
“Did she have a large amount upon her
person?” asked an officer.
"No," was the reply, “it was not for
what she had upon her, but for other mon-
ev.” -
From there the young man returned to
the Ozark flats to await developments. He
had known Miss Ging better than any liv-
ing man, having kept company with her
quite constantly, although it was reported
at the time that he was engaged to be
wedded to Miss Bartleson. There he met
the detectives and officers who had learned
that there had probably been a murder and
who were looking up clues. There he
learned for certain that she had been killed
by a pistol ball.
“She has been murdered,” he cried. “She
has been murdered, and I am done up—my
$2,000 is gone.”
This strange exclamation needed an ex-
planation, and the young man explained
that he had loaned the murdered woman
$7,000 with which to go into business on an
enlarged scale. In proof of this asertion he
produced a letter from him to her, in which
he asked her to return him a former loan
of $2,500, as she had promised, and he
needed it. He showed her letter in reply,
which stated that she would pay it by Jan.
l, and the two letters admitted the loan
as he had described.
The long night wore away, and still that
silent body lay upon its slab at the county
morgue. Nowhere was there light. Deep,
dark, impenetrable mystery was over
everything.
It was learned that Catherine Ging had
ordered the rig delivered to her at the West
Hotel at 7 o'clock. She had hired a buggy
on the two nights previous, and had come
home after a drive of an hour. Monday,
Dec. 3, she had taken the vehicle at the
West Hotel, and driven away alone, as she
had done on previous occasions.
The crescent moon sank below the earth,
the stars came out one by one and slowly
moved their dotted constellations about
their axis, the Northern Star. The merry
skaters left the ice and the night grew
silent, Gradually the great city sank into
slumber, and only the twinkling of the
electric street lights marked its existence.
Slowly the hours wore away as nature
slumbered, wore away toward morning,
and still that poor murdered woman lay
silently upon that marble slab. In that
lonely room in the Ozark flats the grief
stricken neice sobbed until daybreak.
Sleeplessly that young man whose friend
had been murdered, paced his apartments,
or strove to catch an hour's repose upon
the lounge in the rooms of his brother,
Adry Hayward. Silently the police worked
upon the mystery, silently the fitful wind
hurled the dust upon that glistening, freez-
ing pool of blood upon the lonely roadway,
and streaked it with the grey of mother
earth. So would the deeper earth en-
shroud the form of all that was mortal of
the murdered woman.
Silently the first faint streaks of dawn ap-
peared in the east, then the sun arose with
its cold winter rays, and looked down upon
the scene of that dark deed committed be-
neath the gaze of the queenly watch of
the night.
All through the night the newsgatherers
worked, the great presses rumbled, and the
mystery was given to the city. The instru-
ments clicked, the wires shook, and the
news was given to the world; the first
word painting of the most wonderful
tragedy of modern times.
The day dawned, and with its dawning,
the police and detectives reported that
they had learned nothing. No one had
seen the murder, no one had given a clue
that was worth following up. Reports be-
gan to come in of shots heard at Lake
Calhoun; other people had seen a man
and woman riding in a buggy at different
points in the city, but that was all. Where
was the detective force to start? Where
was it to begin to trace the bloody crime?
For the time being it was a mystery such
as criminal annals do not often present.
Where was the motive? Dozen of theo-
ries were concocted. Discarded lovers,
jealous women, criminal assault, highway
robbery, murder by a guilty lover seeking
to secrete his crime, all were broached,
and all more or less believed, but the
murderer, the red handed assasin was at
large. He had been given three hours
start with a galloping horse before it
was known that a bullet had been fired,
and it seemed impossible that he could
be captured.
SOLVING THE MYSTERY.
All the efforts of the officers of the
law failed to lift the veil that enveloped
the mysterious murder. A half day was
spent in following up clues, and yet noth-
ing had been accomplished. William Henry









THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
Eustis, then mayor of Minneapolis, took
a deep interest in the case, and lent his
personal aid to the officers. After the
long and unsystematic search, it was
thought after a council was held, that
some system must be inaugurated if the
authorities expect to bring the guilty to
justice. The history of the murdered
woman was looked up, and her acquaint-
ances summarized.
Catherine Ging was a woman 29 years of
age, tall, commanding of mien, and rather
good looking, although upon a masculine
type. She was a bright woman in her bus-
iness, and had been successful. Born in
Auburn, N. Y., she had removed to Syra-
cuse, where her family afterwards resided.
Coming to Minneapolis she opened a dress-
making establishment, where she secured
customers from the best families of the
city. She had managed to save some
money, and was counted as a woman of
small means, enough to have money out
at interest. She had few friends, and
being of quite secretive nature, she seldom
talked much about her business affairs.
Chief among her male friends was Harry
T. Hayward, who had stated that he was
a heavy loser by her death on account of
his loan to her. Ella M. Vedder, a young
working woman, was her most intimate
female friend. Upon these people it was
thought proper to work first. Mayor Eus-
tis, the county attorney and his assistant,
took the Hayward branch, and the detec-
tives were given in hand the work of ex-
amining Miss Vedder to see what informa-
tion she could give.
The officers ran down several pieces of
information. It was learned that Miss
Vedder and a male friend, Thomas Water-
man, and Miss Ging and Harry Hayward,
were in the habit of making a quartet that
had various suppers and carriage rides to-
gether. It was further learned that Wal-
terman had been to Miss Ging's rooms
Monday afternoon, and inquired of her
where she kept her money. Suspicion at
once fell upon him, and he was interro-
gated with the result that he extricated
himself from the difficulty by showing that
he was not near the scene of the murder.
Miss Vedder stated that she was in Miss
Ging's dressmaking rooms at 6:30 the night
of the murder, and her friend had said
nothing about going to drive, or that she
had any business or engagement that night.
It was learned that in April of the same
year, not far from the same spot, Harry
Hayward, Miss Vedder and Miss Ging,
while driving, were held up by a masked
highwayman and their valuables taken
away from them, except those which the
ladies secreted. This was thought to have
some connection with the murder, but it
could not be directly traced. A messenger
boy stated that he had caried messages to
Miss Ging from the Nicollet House, a local
hotel, that were handed him by a man
whom he thought he could recognize. The
boy was shown a photograph of Harvey
Axford, a well known business man, and
he thought that looked like the man. Ax–
ford gave a good account of himself, and
he was released.
Miss Ireland stated that in the afternoon
her aunt had received a message from a
boy at her parlors, and had torn it up.
The waste paper basket was searched, and
bits of paper pasted together, but nothing
could be found of the note as far as could
be learned. Every clue was failing. Every
scent was lost.
Constant J. Warneke, a man who had
been out of work for a year, was known to
have boarded at the same house with the
murdered woman, and to have known her
intimately for eight years. He was cor-
nered, but gave satisfactory answers to
the questions put. In the waste paper
basket was found a scrap of a note signed
R, and this was thought sufficient to lead
to the questioning of Frederick I. Reed, for
many years a clerk in a dry goods store,
but he satisfied the officers that he had
nothing to do with the affair.
Hour after hour of work, by dozens of
intelligent police officers availed nothing,
and they were almost prepared to admit
that they were whipped. That poor pale
body in its silent resting place upon the
slab in the morgue could not speak, could
not give the name of the man who had
put out the vital spark, could not give one
clue to be worked out. There was only the
cruel wound, the red blood, the cold form.
It could not speak, could not even in its
mute silence give a clue to the murderer.
Out on that lonely road, the pool of blood
was frozen, and the ground was tramped
by the many feet of inquisitive people who
had gone out to view the scene of the
tragedy. Two police officers went out to
the spot and shoveled the frozen scarlet
earth from the road, and threw it into teh
swamp. The marks of the murder were
cleared away, but the memory remained,
and will never be forgotten as long as the
city endures. The wind sighed through the
tamaracks, and the cold sun looked down
pityingly upon the scene. Where was the
murderer?
At noon on Dec. 4, Mayor Eustis sent
for Harry T. Hayward. He appeared to
have better information as to the business
of the murdered woman, and to him the
authorities turned, when all else had failed.
The young man in question was a well-
known character about town. He had conne
to Minneapolis from his birthplace in Illi-
nois years before with his family. His
father, W. W. Hayward, was considered
quite wealthy, having a massed quite a for-
tune in real estate. He had built the Ozark
flats, a splendid apartment house, in which
the family all lived. Harry was not like
his father, and had no eye for business.
He was a rather handsome young fellow,
his almost perfect form rearing itself to
six feet of the finest physical manhood.
Broad shouldered, deep-chested, limbs well
poised upon feet all too small for the mas-
sive frame, he was a man to be looked at
twice when met.
His complexion was rosy, almost like
that of an infant. He wore a blonde mus-
tache and his hair was a trifle thin, al-
though he was but 29 years of age. His
teeth were large and prominent, but the
mustache covered the defect. His grey
blue eyes were large, but the right one
had a nervous disease which caused it to
roll upword at intervals. His nervous struc-
ture was of iron. He had been known to
be a gambler for some time, playing high
stakes, and playing them with a nerve that
was truly wonderful. He needed that cool-
ness, that wonderful nervous structure for
what was to conne.









THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 21
very calmly the young man answered
the summons. He had nothing to fear, and
his every aspect gave that impression, His
gambling experience had taught him forti-
tude, had taught him to curb his feelings,
cloak his thoughts. His whole 200 pounds of
bone and sinew were nerved to the utmost,
but he did not show it. Why should he
not be willing to court investigation? He
was a favored son of wealthy parents. He
was received in the houses of the best
families, allowed to court their daughters,
was smiled upon and favored of all men.
He had not been obliged to work a day in
his life, and when he was short of funds,
he had only to call upon his father, who
had already given him real estate and
money in plenty.
Why should he fear investigation, this
man who had traveled from Alaska to
Maine, and from Maine to Mexico, and
placed his thousands upon the spinning
roulette wheel or upon the turn of a card
in the deading box? Besides, had he not
the proof that he was the sufferer? Had
he not an admission in her own handwrit-
ing that Catherine Ging owed him $9,500?
Could he not show by scores of witnesses
that he was at the Grand Opera House
from 8:15 until 11 o'clock, miles away from
the scene of the crime? In his position of
safety he laughed to himself and was
affable, even jovial to the officials. Cer-
tainly he was willing to give all the infor-
mation in his power. He would willingly
aid in the capture of the villain who had
caused him to lose all the money he had in
the world. How joyfully would he see that
man march to the scaffold.
Seated in comfortable chairs, in the office
of the chief of police the talk began. Hay-
ward was the most affable man in the
party. As the name of man after man was
presented to him as being possibly mixed
up in the affair, he suddenly brightened up,
and was of the opinion that each was a
good theory. He was asked to give the
names of men whom he suspected. The
names of men who knew the murdered
woman. The handsome face was buried in
deep thought.
“There's Ed Conway,” he said. “Now
Ed knew her well, and now I think of it,
Ed was not at home at the Ozark last
night. There’s a clue.”
Conway was sent for. He was a well
known and popular young man, who moved
in the best society, and who was of a
merry and jovial disposition. His merry
disposition changed when he was met by
the officers. He was angry. He told all
he knew about the murdered woman, which
was very little, and then went out in
search of Hayward, to punch him into in-
sensibility for daring to connect him with
the murder. It was well for Hayward that
the two did not meet. Conway accounted
for himself beyond a doubt, and there was
another clue gone.
Then Hayward told his story, and from
his lips came the clues which finally
brought the murderer to justice. He had
met Miss Ging some time in January of
the same year. They grew friendly, until
their friendship ripened into love. Through
an innocent piece of sport at first, she had
become infatuated with gambling, and had
given him money to stake at the gaming
table for her. He could prove that, for he
had a receipt from her showing that she
had let him have money to stake, win or
lose.
Finally she had become convinced that
she was foolish and had quit gambling, but
she was anxious to make money. She un-
folded to him a scheme for her going into
business on a larger scale. She needed
$7,000 for that purpose, which added to
$3,000 of her own would give her a capital
of $10,000. He had agreed to loan it to her,
and finally did so. He produced the note
to show for it, and also two notes for $1,000
and one for $500. The latter notes he ex-
plained were for money he had deposited
with her to keep for him, payable on de-
mand. They had never been paid. He had
lost it all. For security she had promised
to give him a chattel mortgage upon her
stock when she purchased it, and as a
further security she had assigned to him
two life insurance policies for $5,000 each,
one in the New York Life Insurance Com-
pany, and one in the Travelers’ Accident
Insurance Company. He held the policies.
At the mention of life insurance policies,
his interrogators pricked up their ears. It
looked suspicious. They must investigate
further. Hour after hour wore away, and
the young man was cross-examined. Yet
he kept his composure, and talked and
talked, explaining his every deal with the
murdered woman. So suspicious had the
authorities become, that they resolved to
confront him with the dead body. Accord-
ingly a carriage was ordered, and the par-
ty were whirled to the county morgue.
There they met Morgue Keeper Walsh, and
for a time Hayward was kept waiting in
the outer office while the test was prepar-
ed. Then he was ushered in.
The silent victim still reposed upon the
marble slab under her white shroud. Si-
lently the party stood around it, and Hay-
ward was motioned to approach. As he
came forward coolly, with a look of con-
cern upon his face, one of the party re-
moved the shroud from the face. Hayward
looked at it unmoved. The set features,
the bloody matted hair, the broken nose,
that awful sight, did not bring a quiver of
the eye.
“Take off your hat!” commanded Mayor
Eustis.
He did so, and looked down upon that
poor, still, dead face, unmoved. Not a par-
ticle of color left his face, not a muscle
betrayed any untoward feeling. Every eye
was upon him, every nerve was strained
to catch the slightest quiver of that mus-
cular frame, the slightest pallor of the
face.
“Poor girl—poor dead girl,” he said soft-
ly. “If you only could speak now, you could
tell us who it was.”
For the moment he appeared to forget
his loss, for once his money did not ap-
pear to be uppermost in his mind. Yet he
had stood the test. Not one of that party
could say that the sight of the poor mur-
dered girl had caused him a moment of
guilty pain or remorse. They must be mis-
taken. -
The party left the room, and out in the
office, the young man for the first time
showed that he realized that suspicion had
been directed to him. He refused to
further with the officers, stating that they
had no right to keep him in custody



22 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
against his will. The mayor was firm, how-
ever, and finally he went with them.
For thirteen hours, without food or sleep
that investigation was kept up, and then
the young man was allowed to lie down
upon a lounge in the chief's office, and take
a little rest, but he was not allowed to go.
His statement that he was at the theater
was not believed, and proof must be
brought forward. A number of people were
found who had seen him with Miss Bartel-
son at the theaſter as he had stated, and
he was released Wednesday morning, after
having been in custody twenty hours.
During his talk he told the officials that
he knew Miss Ging had drawn her money
cut of the safety deposit vaults where she
had placed it on Monday, and was of the
opinion that the murderer had killed her
to secure it. He thought it must amount
to nearly $12,000. He had been suspicious
for some days that she was acting strange-
ly, and was confident that some one had
put up a job to kill her and thus “do him
up,” as he expressed it. He was released
however, and except for the information
he had given, the police were still in the
dark. The life insurance looked very sus-
picious, but then it was certain that Hay-
ward could prove an alibi.
F. A. Briggs, a young man who had pub-
lished a sensational newspaper until a
short time before the murder, came to the
- police and stated that when he had pub-
lished an article which had disclosed the
gambling transactions of Hayward, the
latter had threatened to have him as-
saulted, and the man he had secured to do
it was the engineer at the Ozark flats. He
stated that he had been informed at the
time that he was to be lured to some
point, where the deed was to be done.
He stated that he had laid the matter
before the county authorities, but that
nothing had been done, although he had a
plan to be present when the money was
to be paid over for doing the deed, but the
authorities would do nothing, and the as-
sault did not materialize. The police paid
little attention to the story, for the reason
- that they could see no connection between
it and the murder.
For the time being the police were baf-
fled again, but they were shadowing Harry
Hayward, with no definite object. There
were more theories advanced, however, to
fit the facts. It was thought that the
money Catherine Ging had in her posses-
sion was counterfeit, and that the murder
had been committed to secure it, and free
somebody from the chance of being found
by her to have placed spurious money in
her hands. This was thought to be the
only theory that could be applied, that
Hayward was connected with a gang of
counterfeiters, and that he had passed
counterfeit money upon her for the pur-
pose of securing notes and life insurance,
and that one of the gang had murdered
her to secure possession of the damning
evidence.
Matters were in this shape when light
came from an unexpected quarter, and
the mist that hung about this most won-
derful, this most mysterious murder be-
gan to clear slowly away, as gradually
the clouds began to gather about the
heads of the members of one of the lead-
ing families of Minneapolis.
In the afternoon mail of Wednesday,
Dec. 5, Came a letter to Albert H. Hall,
special assistant county attorney. It was
addressed in a fine chirography, and bore
the postmark of the same day. In the
excitement of the times, Mr. Hall allowed
the letter to lie with other mail unheeded
until evening, and then when it was
reached, almost the first lines, which were
underscored, startled him. The letter was
upon a sheet of note sized paper, with a
heading torn off, and not written in a
hand not unlike the writing of Eugene
Field. It bore the signature of Levi M.
Stewart, a name in itself a guarantee of
truth, and it gave the first real clue to
the murder.
Like a flash of light came the motive,
the plot and the deed, and the attorney
was aghast at the charge. His hand
trembled so that he could hardly read the
closely lined lines, and he was obliged to
calm himself, then take the letter to the
light, and begin its perusal.
Minneapolis, Dec. 5, 1894.—A. H. Hall, 502
Guaranty Loan, Minneapolis: Three days before
the murder of Miss Ging Adry A. Hayward, the
brother of Harry, came into my office, very
greatly excited, and told me that Harry and a
confederate were going to murder Miss Ging in
order to get money from her life insurance, and
he told me that Harry pretended to have loaned
her the money and had managed to have her
display the money in large sums in several
places, and that Harry had alsº displayed Miss
Ging's notes, taken also to many people, as also
her life insurance policies, and that she was to
be got out riding and killed in order to get the
life insurance money, which he said was $10,000.
In fact, he stated substantially all the particu-
lars as they have occurred, and said he learned
them from Harry, and, as I said, he was greatly
excited, and wanted to know what could be done
to prevent it. I hadn't the least belief that
there was any foundation for his fears, and told
him it was only some of Harry's big talk. Told
him if there had been any such scheme on the
part of Harry he certainly would not be such a
fool as to tell of it. But he seemed perfectly
convinced that the intention to murder the girl
was genuine, and said it was certainly planned
and would be accomplished in a very few days.
I repeated to him again and again that while
Harry was wicked he was not a fool, and that
he certainly would not have given himself away
in advance in that way if there had been any
intention to perpetrate such a crime. But he did
not seem to doubt the genuineness of the in-
tended murder. If I had supposed there was the
most remote possibility of his story, or rather
belief being founded on genuine intention to com-
mit a crime, I should have advised him at once
to go to the superintendent of police and lay
the matter before him, but I had no belief what-
ever in its being anything but bluster and bluff
on the part of Harry. But events have proved
conclusively that Adry was right. I knew long
ago that Harry was one of the most mendacious
liars and dishonest rogues I had ever seen, but I
had no idea of his being such a criminal. When
Adry came into my office to tell me the above he
said he wanted to talk with me confidentially.
But crimes of this character should be promptly
punished to the full extent of the law. I do not
want you to let any person know that you re-
ceived your information from me, but you can
say, the same as I can, that I never spoke a
word to you on the subject, and I want you to
burn this as soon as fully read. And you can
examine Adry as a witness, as if by chance
knowing that Harry was frequently in the office
where Adry worked, and also was living in one
of the flats in the same building with Miss Ging
and Harry. Yours in haste,
L. M. STEWAR.T.
Mr. Hall was excited, and with reason.
The authorities had been following up ev-
ery possible clue, and with little or no suc-
cess, and up to that time it appeared as
if the murderer would never be apprehend-
ed, and the murder would go down in his-
tory to take its place among the criminal










THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
23
mysteries of the nation. Here, as if it had
come by the hand of Providence, was a
proper clue to work upon. If it had come
from a less reliable source, the attorney
would have looked upon it as one of the
crank letters so often sent in times of
murder excitement, but the letter he held
in his hand was genuine without doubt.
Mr. Hall was well acquainted with the
writing, and he was certain he had a key
to the mystery at last.
Levi M. Stewart, the writer of the letter,
was one of the prominent men of the city.
years and years before he had followed
the profession of attorney at law, but
through skillful manipulation of real estate
he had become a millionaire, and his prop-
erty could be found in every addition of the
city. In his way he was a character. Sim-
ple in his tastes, in spite of his great
wealth, he resided in his little cottage,
surrounded by trees, in a block in the
heart of the city, probably as valuable as
any piece of property in the Northwest,
and yet he steadfastly refused to demolish
the old home, in spite of repeated large
offers for the homestead.
For many years he had been the friend
and advisor of members of the Hayward
family, with whom he had had many deals.
W. W. Hayward, the father of the boys,
had at one time collected his rents for him,
and in turn advised him as to investments
and real estate deals. It was not won-
derful that Adry Hayward should
go to him for advice and counsel in an
important matter. Mr. Stewart might be
criticised for having kept silent for two
days before informing the authorities, but
it must be remembered that he was an at-
torney, and that Adry's communication to
him was in fact that of a client to his at-
torney, and Mr. Stewart was obliged to
consult his own mind before he came to
the conclusion that in the face of such a
crime he was justified in violating the small-
er duty. The state's attorney knew that
after he had made up his mind, he could
be depended upon, and therefore proceeded
without calling upon him again until after
he had made some important moves.
In the meantime, however, and while he
was under police surveillance, Harry Hay-
ward had promised a reporter for THE
TRIBUNE that he would give him an in-
terview, and he knew that the reporter
could be found at the City Hall. At 10
o'clock Wednesday morning, Dec. 5, there-
fore, Harry, of his own accord, sauntered
down to the City Hall to hunt for the re-
porter. He found him there, and, going into
the reporters' room, he dictated an inter-
view for THE TRIBUNE, taking some
time in doing so. After it was completed
the reporter handed it to him and he stated
that it was what he wished to say to the
public. -
Before he was prepared to leave the
building he was accosted by Mayor Eustis
and invited into his office. There he was
questioned again, and gradually the mayor
became interested, until there was another
inquisition, more rigid that the one first
resorted to. The mayor had prepared an in-
quisition chamber in the West Hotel, and
a carriage was summoned, in which the
party went to a room on the upper floor.
Hayward patiently submitted, his nerve
and complaisance remaining remarkable,
right, but he himself was anxious.
for he was suspicious that he was sus-
pected. At the West Hotel Frank M. Nye,
the state's attorney, and several detectives
assisted the mayor in his questioning, and
Hayward’s answers were taken down in
shorthand by George Hitchcock, a court
stenographer.
The story of the young man was told in
an even, quiet tone, and he rather invited
questioning. He had an explanation ready
for every strange circumstance, and talked
volubly. He explained that he had made
the money he loaned the murdered woman
by gambling, and stated that when she
had gone into business it was her intention
to make a division of the profits with
him.
He told of his suspicions that something
was wrong, and said that he had sent his
friend Thomas Waterman to talk with her
at her parlors Monday morning in order to
see if she was going into business and if
she had the money. If she did not talk
fair he intended to attach her vault and
secure the money again. Waterman had
been convinced that everything was all
Miss
Ging had acted so strangely that he was
afraid that she had not yet gotten over
her craze for gambling, and that she was
using his money in that way with other
men. He was sure it was some gambler
who had killed her for the money.
As early as the day before, when the
body ºras hardly cool Hayward had made
inquiries about securing the life insurance,
and had been informed that the company
would not pay it over until matters had
had been cleared up somewhat. This looked
suspicious, but the young man explained
that he did not intend to collect the money
then, but wanted to be sure that he took
the proper precautions to make proof of
death. After several hours in the West
Hotel, during which Charles J. Bartleson,
an attorney, and the father of the young
woman to whom Hayward was said to be
engaged, broke into the room to protest
against such proceedings, the party again
took the carriage and drove to the Ozark
flats, where the very calm young man
took the officials to his own room, and pro-
duced his revolver, which was a Colt's 38.
It was found to be loaded with cartridges.
Hayward broke the barrel down, and hold-
ing a card behind the barrel, asked the
officers to look through it to the light and
see how clean it was. They looked, and
sure enough, it was as polished as if it had
never been used for a deadly purpose or
any other. There the young man also dis-
played the letter from himself to Miss
Ging asking for his $2,500, and the answer
from her, his reply, and her second an-
swer, which so minutely showed the loan
by documentary evidence.
A consultation was held as to whether
it would be proper or not to allow Hayward
to go free, and as a result he was still kept
in custody. Shortly afterward, Mr. Hall
appeared upon the scene with his letter
from Mr. Stewart, and he began to move
matters in another direction. Hardly any
of the officers had slept, yet it was neces-
sary that the work be kept going, that no
one, murderer or officer, be given a minute's
more time. Too much had been lost al-
ready.
The three notes were produced by Harry


24 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
and were taken in charge by the mayor
against the protest of Hayward. The note
for $7,000 was drawn November 24, and was
witnessed by Claus A. Blixt, an engineer
in the Ozark fiats, and John Witherspoon,
the elevator man in the Oneida Block. It
was documentary evidence that the loan
was made, for there were the witnesses,
and there was the signature of Kate Ging.
Hayward was evidently of the opinion
that he had told all he knew, and began
to chafe under his being retained by the
officers. He chafed all the more, because
he had wanted to accompany the remains
to their last resting place in New York.
The day before the funeral services had
been held at the Church of the Immaculate
Conception, and he had sent her the most
expensive wreath of flowers that rested
on the casket. He had performed all the
little services that might be expected of a
friend, and thought he was being unjustly
treated, even persecuted. The clouds were
gathering above his head, however, and in
a short time the storm would break.
At 5:30 o'clock a warrant for Hayward's
arrest was read to him, and he was at last
officially a prisoner. The warrant charged
him with murder in the first degree, and
upon it he was locked up in the common
lockup. Six hours later Adry Hayward, his
brother, was arrested, charging him with
firing the shot from which the victim had
died. The latter was made on the spur of
the moment, for the purpose of keeping
both parties in custody. The plot thick-
ened. The public was amazed, was in
doubt; no one knew what was coming next.
Before Adry Hayward was locked in his
cell, he was put through a fire of ques-
tions, but appeared to be willing to say
little about his knowledge of the affair
beyond the events connected with the in-
surance and the notes. He was almost as
cool as his brother, and events showed that
they were very remarkable young men.
Finally, upon the advice of L. M. Stew-
art, whom Adry had constituted as his at-
torney, the young man gave up what he
knew to the authorities, which was the
same as had been given to them by Mr.
Stewart's letter. The story he told was al-
most too terrible for belief, however, and
read like the mental machinations of a
fiend. In the quietude of a locked room, he
poured into the ears of the county attor-
ney that terrible accusation against a
brother, which in the end might lead him to
the gallows.
Harry had made the proposals of mur-
der to him (Adry) early in November.
He had approached the subject very gradu-
ally, making different propositions to Adry
as to how he would feel if he had killed
a person. Leading up to it, he had finally
offered his brother $2,000 to kill a woman.
Adry had refused, and finally he stated
he had a man with nerve who would
do it, named Blixt, who was an engineer
in the flat. Friday, Nov. 30, Harry had
told him the dressmaker was about to be
sacrificed, and then it was that Adry had
called upon Stewart and informed him of
the plot.
Friday, Dec. 7, Claus A. Blixt, the en-
gineer, and his wife, were taken into
custody. Mrs. Blixt told what little she
could, but she only could inform the au-
thorities that her husband and Hayward
were almost constantly together before the
murder, and that shortly after the murder
Hayward came into their bedroom to speak
to her husband. She was allowed to go
after a lengthy series of questions.
Blixt was placed in a cage in the lockup,
after a thorough application of what is
known as the sweating process in police
parlance. He was uncommunicative, and
showed that he was apt to be stubborn
in the matter. After a rigid examination
he was let go for the night, the police be-
ing completely baffled by his imperturb-
ability. Enough had been learned from
his wife however, to have the police be-
lieve that Blixt and Ole Ericksen had
committed the murder planned by Hay-
ward. Ericksen was a workhouse habitue
who had been hanging about the Ozark
flats for some time, and it was learned
that he had left for Iowa City the morn-
ing after the murder. He it was who had
disposd of the bloody clothes, as it was
given out that he had taken a bundle
with him to the train.
That part of the matter was left to
the detectives. It was learned that some
bloody clothing was found on the bank
of the river near Iowa City. Ericksen had
returned to Minneapolis, and was arrested
shortly after the others. The authorities
believed they were gradually exposing the
whole plot. Later advices however, showed
that Ericksen had been in Iowa City the
day of the murder, and the bloody clothes
were those of a railroad man who had
been killed in an accident. He was re-
leased. His release however, only dark-
ened the mystery again, for no bloody
clothes could be found, and no trace of
their having been burned in the furnace.
Sheriff James H. Ege discovered some
soiled clothing about a mile from the
scene of the murder at the side of an
unused road, and they were taken in
charge. They were made a theory of the
defense later, as will be shown subse-
quently in the story.
From Friday until Sunday there were
no new developments, and the authorities
had nothing upon which a conviction
could be had. The bare, uncorroborated as-
sertion of one man, a brother of the accus-
ed, could not hang two men. Search as they
might, the story of Hayward appeared to
be true and some way must be found to
shake it. Meanwhile, dozens of people
were bringing in slight clues. Countless in-
surance agents stated that Hayward had
hounded them for information as to ſhow
life insurance could be secured upon a wo-
man's life, in such a way that a man who
was not a relative could be a beneficiary.
From them he had learned that a loan
was evidence, and that the policy could be
taken as security. Then the whole system
of the insurance came out.
Harry had arranged for the policies. First
Miss Ging had arranged for an annuity
policy in the New York Life Insurance
Company. When she came to secure it,
however, she took the single benefit plan.
She had originally bargained for $7,000, but
only took $5,000. Shortly afterward she had
taken out an accident policy in the Travel-
lers’ Accident Company, with the clause
eliminated which made the company liable
in cases of murder, or the death resulting
when the insured was defending life or
property. It was learned that Hayward had



THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 25
consulted a physician in Anoka as to the
proper place to shoot a person when sure
death was to be the result. He had been
shown the exact place where Miss Ging
was shot.
one man gave information that he saw a
man get into the buggy with Miss Ging
near the West Hotel and drive away. This
was George Grindall, a workhouse habitue
who was not thought to be reliable. M. D.
Wilson had seen the buggy with Miss Ging
in it about a mile from the West Hotel,
going in the direction of the lake. A man
was with her, and he stated to his friends
that he could not tell who it was. He knew,
however, and told it in private to the au-
thorities. The secret was kept, and no one
knew of the important evidence he could
give.
On Sunday Claus A. Blixt confessed, and
stated that Harry T. Hayward committed
the murder, and he had disposed of the
body afterward, acting as an accomplice.
So excited were the officials at the confes-
sion that they forgot for the time being
that Hayward had proved an alibi. He was
at the theater when the deed was com-
mitted. After seeing the falsity of the con-
fession, they came again to Blixt's cell,
and told him they wanted the truth. He
had been broken mentally by his crime,
and had experienced religion, and appar-
ently cared little what became of him.
With his Bible in his hand he made a
second confession, admitting that he had
killed the woman at the instigation of Har-
ry, exactly as Adry had stated to Mr.
Stewart. The mystery was revealed, the
plot laid bare, and the most terrible, the
most uncalled for murder was exposed,
showing to the light of day the most de-
praved, the most cold-blooded murderer
tº at ever walked God’s footstool, the most
bloodthirsty soul that ever usurped the
human frame.
THE MURDEROUS PLOT.
The fate of Catherine Ging stands as a
terrible warning to the class of young
womanhood which delights in nightly car-
riage rides with male companions; private
party suppers in places where wine and
cigarettes can be made part of the bill of
fare, and who know of no other delights
so captivating as to be the companions of
rapid young men, who can give excitement
in return for a pretty face and engaging
manners. All innocently it starts at first,
but there is a menace in every hour after
the rapid road is reached, and it is only
good fortune that enables any of them to
escape calamity. -
Monday Morning, Dec. 3, Thomas Wa-
terman said to Kate Ging, in her parlors:
“You appear to have plenty of money
now.”
“Oh, yes, Waterman,” she answered, “we
could paint the town red very nicely now.”
Alas, poor girl, how little did she know
that on that very night she would “paint
the town red,” not in the common accep-
tance of the term, but with her very life
blood! Alas, that reeking pool on the Ex-
celsior road mocked her words when it
made them true.
When Harry Hayward first met Miss
Ging, in January, of the same year, she
was a business woman who was well liked,
and who had few ambitions except to be
successful in her business, and rear her
head among women proudly, virtuous
and beloved among her friends. Beyond re-
proach morally she was, as the long trial
proved, but under the guiding hand of
Harry Hayward she lost that more re-
splendant gloss that tells of the truly inno-
cent girl.
She was a woman 29 years of age, grand
in figure, large of heart. Hayward was a
man moving in good society, on a plane
above her. She was annibitious and was
complimented by his attention. What
more natural but that she should fall in
love with him? He realized it, and en-
couraged her, from motives of his own.
She had every reason to believe that his
regard for her was genuine, and it is not
wonderful that she consented to those long
drives at night, to forming one of a quar-
tet where wine and supper was the plan of
entertainment.
It was before one of these suppers that
the first gambling was indulged in. It
was suggested by one of the men that they
win enough to pay for the suppers, and the
quartet went to a gambling house. The
ladies waited outside until they were re-
joined by Hayward. He had won quite a
little amount, and the party proceeded to
spend it. Miss Ging was charmed with such
an easy manner of making money, and at
a future meeting put in a small amount in
a stake. Hayward again won and the
woman gradually became infatuated with
the game. This was the beginning of the
end.
The uncharitable reader may find it dif-
ficult to excuse Miss Ging, for her first
lapse from the conventional. In a man,
gambling is not a very pleasant moral load
to shoulder, and in a woman it is hardly to
be forgiven. The reader must remember,
however, that all things in this life go by
comparison. Were there no good, there
could be no bad, and that very badness it-
self is regulated by what is considered
good. If there were no wickedness, how
could there be virtue, for then all would
be virtue, and it would not be a quality,
nor would it have a name. We judge both
virtue and crime by the lessons we have in
each.
Catherine Ging saw in Harry T. Hay-
ward what the world saw, one of the most
wonderful characters ever presented for the
human mind to diagnose. To the world,
that world in which he moved, he was a
cheery companion, and of an open and
rather careless disposition. Of a powerful
build, and wonderful strength, he never
boasted of it, was not given to any form
of athletics, and not in the least quarrel-
some. On the whole he was what would be
termed timid, even cowardly in physical
matters. To pick a quarrel with anyone
would be the last thing in his thoughts,
and he was careful never to allow his ten-
per to carry him away, and force him into
any trouble.
His character might be likened to the cat's
paw in many ways, although it was not ap-
parent to those who knew him. His man-
ner was as soft as the fingers of the fe-
line and never gave evidence of the sharp
claws hidden away in the velvet cush-
ions. His voice was always suppressed, al-
ways caressing, always winning. He was
full of easy explanation, and few could



26 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
resist his winning manners. Few could
ever believe that he was not the embodi-
ment of truth. His soft purring voice was
enhanced by the most enticing low laugh,
that made his every feature inviting. In
his hands, vice could almost assume a
guise of virtue. With his command of
words, it was easy to be seen how the
thrifty business woman, who was but a
woman after all in her tender heart, could
grow to believe that nothing proposed by
him could be vile, nothing he did, wrong.
Loving this wonderful man as she did,
expecting some time to call him hisband,
it was little wonder that Catherine Ging
soon overstepped the bounds of strict pro-
priety, began to partake of wine and even
stronger liquors, began to furnish the funds
for use at the gaming table, and gradually
worked her ruin. She could not see, as
some of his most intimate friends could,
that this apparently polished man was the
most wonderful liar on record; that he
would stop at nothing in the smaller vices
to obtain money; that he was absolutely
untrustworthy. She went on and on to her
financial ruin and to death. There was no
one to check her, no one to give a word
of warning. Hayward had chosen his and
her companions with apt selection, and
they were as blinded as herself. Ella Ved-
der was a character something like her
own, who could not discover the deceit in
the man, and Thomas Waterman was won
by Harry's pleasures, which he furnished
abundantly for his own ends to the quar-
tet. The forming of the party was the
first step in the contemplated ruin, and
then came the next advance.
Harry had been presented by his father
with a piece of real estate and some cash
to start him in life. This all went in his
gambling ventures. He played high, and at
first was successful, winning as high as
$3,500 at one sitting. He played incessantly,
but with the advantage on the losing side,
until he was obliged to mortgage his prop-
erty repeatedly, obtaining more and more
money upon it, until he finally parted with
it to L. M. Stewart by foreclosure. He
had a little cash balance, but this also
went with the rest. At about this time.
his thoughts turned to Miss Ging and he
saw in her an opportunity to secure money
for a continuance of his gaming desires.
The opium eater will go through fire and
water to secure his treasured drug when he
is without it. No less is the secret fury of
the gamester when he lacks the needed
capital to carry on his game. Harry was
no exception to the rule. His funds were
exhausted and he must have more. He
had secured small sums from Miss Ging,
which he had lost, and now he must get
from her sums with which to play usually
high stakes. With this end in view he vis-
ited a trance medium, Emma Goodale, for
the purpose of laying his plans. He had
worked the trance medium scheme on his
father, with the result that he had suc-
seeded in securing money from him, and
now he proposed to use it upon his friend.
He visited the medium alone and wished
to plan with her to tell a lady whom he
would bring that she would have luck with
the cards if she gambled. The medium re-
fused, but in such a way that Harry felt
convinced that for money she would tell
what he wanted.
A few days afterward he brought Miss
Ging to the medium, and in her trance
this woman became one of the means to
his end, for she told Miss Ging that luck
would be with her at the gaming table.
The charm worked, for then Miss Ging
wanted to play high. She gave Harry a
few hundred, and he won with it. Again
the medium was visited again and again,
and for a time they won, and the dress-
maker became a victim to the gambler's
fever. Now she was pliable in his hands.
The charm was working, his great scheme
was made possible. Perhaps he would win
heavily and be on his feet again. His luck
was against him, however, and then he
conceived the plan of reporting losses to
her even when he won, so as to secure the
money for his own use.
So matters porgressed until the life in-
surance idea came to him. He had read of
cases where large sums had been realized
by sharp men in that way. He knew he
could work the scheme much more success-
fully, and then he began to lay his plans,
as early as July. One morning after a
night out, at 4 o’clock in front of the Ozark
flats, he remained with the hackman, who
had been driving him, and for more than
an hour tried to secure the services of the
hackman in his schemes. He probed the
conscience of the man, and asked him if
his conscience would trouble him if he
should commit a crime. He asked if the
team was fractious, and the man replied
in the negative. Peter Vallely was not
enough of a criminal to do for Harry's pur-
pose. He admitted that if he was attacked
he would not hesitate to kill a man, but he
would go no further. Hayward asked him
if he would sell him his team and carriage,
and Vallely fixed a price. Harry asked if
the team would be likely to go over the
bluff at Calhoun if it was suddenly fright-
ened, and was guided that way, and Vallely
thought it would. Harry asked him if he
couldn't take a passenger, and drive out
into the lake, and when he was in deep
water, frighten the horses and jump off.
Vallely stated that he was no swimmer.
For an hour the schemer poured his vile
propositions into the ear of the hackman,
and then left him. He had reckoned with-
out his host. Vallely would not do the
work for him. Harry asked him if he
would care what became of the team after
it came into his possession, and Vallely
stated that it was no concern of his. Yet
Harry had shown himself a reader of
character. It might be supposed that it
was a dangerous thing to present such a
proposition to a third party, yet events
showed that Vallely never breathed a word
of the conversation to a living soul.
Next he began to work upon his friend
Waterman, and asked him if he would
have any objection to burning a lumber
yard. Here he was testing conscience
again, Waterman did not take kindly to
the idea, and he was dropped. Then an-
other scheme presented itself. He thought
of Claus A. Blixt, and began to tutor him
in a school of crime, but with more care.
He succeeded in getting Blixt to poison a
dog by way of divertisement, a dog belonging
to a neighbor. Next he proposed the burn-
ing of a barn and also a scheme to kill
a man who was to come from Chicago,
and who would have $400. The name of
THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 27
the man was not given, but Harry owed
his cousin, Henry Goodsell that amount,
and Goodsell lived in Chicago. It could not
be that Goodsell was the man, for he was
Harry's bosom friend, and afterwards tes-
tified for him on the stand in the trial.
Blixt was not willing to commit murder
as yet, and Harry contended himself with
harping upon the burning of the barn,
and securing some small criminal servº
ices. He was successful with Blixt, but
as yet had not prepared his mind for the
murder of a human being. He was at
a loss how to proceed.
Meantime, he was working on Miss
Ging, and securing her money. He suc-
ceeded in prevailing upon her to agree to sell
a mortgage which she had on a mill at
Hamil, and went to prepare for the sale,
when he learned that the mill was not
insured, and no one would discount the
note for that reason. He had the mill
insured at once, and strange to say the
mill burned down a very short time after-
ward, and Miss Ging realized upon it. She
had another small loan on a mortgage,
which she sold to raise money, and this
was never banked. At about the same
time, Harry pawned three diamond rings,
one of his own, and two of hers. None
of the money found its way into a bank,
and it was probably turned over to Harry
with which to gamble.
In July, Miss Ging had lost all of her
available money. She had given it to
Harry to gamble with in Chicago, and
gave him also a release of the amount,
in which she stated she had turned it
over to him to use in gambling, win or
lose. He went to Chicago and played the
money, sending her several telegrams,
stating that they were winning. Then he
suddenly changed his tune, and wired that
they had lost and needed more money.
She sent him $100, and he wired that they
had lost all, and was obliged to borrow
money to get back home. This was prior
to his prevailing upon her to cash her
loans. The charm was working, for he
had never gambled in Chicago, and was
saving the money for a grand scheme.
Early in November he had about $2,000
a small portion of it being his own funds.
One circumstance must not be overlooked,
as an illustration of the extent he would
go to, in order to secure money. Early in
April, Harry, Miss Ging and Miss Vedder
went driving in the evening out near where
the murder was finally committed. Miss
Ging usually carried quite a little sum of
money with her, and Miss Vedder usually
had a small sum. They both had diamond
jewelry. While on the lonely road, the
party was held up in a very peculiar man-
ner. Hayward sang a certain song for a
signal, and a man stepped from the shade
of the trees, and held the horse's head. He
was very methodical, and very profane.
Harry made no resistance, and gave up
his watch and $46 in money to the man.
The ladies put their rings in their mouths,
and Miss Vedder hid her purse in her hat.
The robber only secured one ring, and Har-
ry’s money and watch. He had been the
planner of the hold-up, and had been foiled
after all. Some months afterward he
ºwned the diamond ring in Chicago for $30.
This money went into the stake for his
great scheme.
Having failed in securing the consent of
Claus A. Blixt to commit the murder, this
human fiend thought of another idea. His
brother Adry was working in his father's
office at a small salary, and wanted money.
Here was another mind to work, and he
proceeded at once to try it. At any rate
Adry would say nothing, for he would
hardly expose his own brother. The idea.
was no sooner conceived than it was acted
upon. He had an interview with his
brother, in the office in the Oneida Block.
“Adry, would your conscience trouble you
if you should kill someone?” he asked.
“I don’t know, I never tried it,” was the
careless reply of the brother. -
“Well, suppose you did, would you be
troubled afterward, if no one found it out?”
“I rather guess I would be haunted after-
ward by the ghost of the dead,” said Adry,
shaking his head.
“Oh, there's nothing in this haunting,”
said the younger brother. “It’s all right in
books, but in reality you get over it soon
enough. I’ve been the means of killing
three men, one of them a Chinaman, and
my conscience don’t bother me, and I don't
see ghosts.”
“What are you talking about?” said Adry,
with disdain. “What do you take me for?”
“Now, on the square, Adry,” said Harry
stubbornly, “what do you propose to do the
rest of your life? Business in the office is
getting worse and worse every year, and
it will be starvation for you after awhile.”
“Well,” said Adry, philosophically, “I
have managed to exist for more than 30
years, and I guess I can go on just the
same.”
“Now look here, Adry,” continued Harry,
in a most matter-of-fact way, “would you
kill a woman for $2,000?”
“I should not!” cried Adry.
“Oh, bah!” cried Harry, out of patience.
“You haven’t got the nerve, that’s what
ails you.”
“I have the nerve fast enough, in the
right direction,” said Adry, “If it comes
to nerve I can discount you, but I don’t
propose to kill a woman.”
Still Satan persisted. With his lack of the
sense of honor, of right, he could not see
what was the matter with everybody, that
they were afraid to kill a woman. It was
so easy, and she could not resist. It was
not as if a man was to be killed, where
there was some chance of personal injury
in the act.
“If you have nerve,” said he with some
animation, “you prove it to me. Go out and
kill somebody, and I’ll give you $100. If you
are afraid of a woman, kill a child; kill
some cripple; they are better dead than
alive.”
“No, thank you,” replied Adry.
“Now, look here, Adry. I have a fat
hackman who will do anything I say. I can
get him to drive out with you and the wo—
man, and you can push her in the lake,
and he will drive you away, and no one
will be the wiser. He is all right. I can
get him to make the team run away, and
you can jump out, and the team will go
over the bank and kill her.”
“I don’t want anything to do with it,”
was Adry's reply, and Harry departed, dis-
gusted.
What Adry's thoughts were, the public
will never know. Perhaps, like Elder Stew-
art, he knew his brother, knew him for a
man full of bragadoccio, prone to huge






28 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
stories, to gigantic attempts to outdo An-
manias, and he didn’t believe there to be
anything serious in Harry's talk. In any
event, he said nothing to it to anybody,
and Harry looked elsewhere.
It was in the early part of November,
and all the scheme was prepared. The trap
could soon be sprung. Even at that date
he was preparing for the tragedy. In Chi-
cago he flashed large bills before his
cousin, Goodsell. In Minneapolis he was
flashing rolls of bills, brushing them under
the noses of elevator boys and others. In
restaurants and wine rooms he was having
Miss Ging flash rolls, the same ones prob-
ably. He was beginning to arrange for his
defense. - -
In this behold one of the most wonderful
criminals on record. As a rule, in almost
every case, those who commit crime at-
tempt to do it in such a manner that not a
clue points to them. In the present case
Hayward knew that he would be the first
man suspected, and had arranged accord-
ingly. He rather courted the suspicion, and
at the same time laid his plans so that even
after he was suspected facts would prove
that he could not have committed the
deed. Was there ever a criminal before
who was so daring that he would dare to
face the conflict, even when armed with
his own weapons, with alibis and explan-
ations. He was a man of the greatest
nerve ever seen, and if his confederate had
been provided with an ounce of his quali-
ty the murderer never would have been
apprehended, not even with Stewart's let-
ter, not even with Adry Hayward's story.
His defense was complete.
There are things in connection with this
wonderful tragedy that will probably for-
ever remained a sealed book, and can only
be known from conjecture. How Hayward
succeeded in making that poor woman a
plotter for her own death, can hardly be
explained. It was certain that from her
love for him, she was willing to do his
bidding in any way; that she was pliable
in his hands. His character made this
much easier, for annong all his other sins
he was not much of an admirer of the fair
sex. The god of chance occupied his whole
heart, and among his larger vices were not
the ones usual with young men, where
social ruin is brought to so many happy
homes. That he should never attempt any
overt act in that realm, made him all the
more trustworthy in the mind of a woman
who had the sense of Miss Ging, and there-
fore his plan was the easier.
Why she made those notes for him "no
one knows. Why she gave it out that she
had borrowed a large sum of money to go
into business on an enlarged scale must
forever remain a mystery. They were all
made at the same time, but the dates were
different. The note for $500 and the two
for $1,000 each were made early in Novem-
ber, and the note for $7,000 was made Nov.
24, shortly after the insurance policies were
issued. At the same time the two assign-
ments of the policies were made to him. It
is possible that when their money was all
gone Hayward proposed to her that she
embark in business, and that they share
the profits, for they would be married
soon, anyway. She naturally would ask
where the money was to come from, and
he probably proposed that she make him
notes, that they be witnessed by two peo-
ple, and that a huge roll of money be dis-
played at the time. This would give proof
of the loan, and he could probably nego-
tiate his notes, at a discount.
In order to make the notes better she
could have her life insured for an amount
sufficient, and the policies could be given
as further security to any one discounting
the notes, after he had paid the premium
for a term of years in advance. It would
be necessary that everything be as public
as possible; that she give it out that she
had secured the money, show it conspicu-
ously, so that it was generally known that
he had made the loan and that there was
capital back of it. By that means they
could raise the money and start in busi-
ness. The deluded woman did as he wished
in all things. She inquired about the rent
of a store, told her friends that she was
about to enlarge her business and put in
about $10,000—in short, carried out his plans
to the letter. .
Before the “loan” was made Hayward
began to make events public in other
ways. He took out a life insurance policy
for $5,000, making Miss Ging the beneficiary,
and in taking the receipt for the payment
of premium, had the agent write upon the
paper the name of the beneficiary. This
he used as a decoy, showed it to the con-
fiding woman that she might see that he
was willing to have his life insured for her
benfit in order that she might not be
alarmed at the prospect of having her’s
insured. He did not tell her that he was
to let that policy lapse; that it was, in
fact, worthless from the first because she
had no insurable interest in him. She was
not his relative. Miss Ging never could
have collected it.
At every place where he inquired about
life insurance he was careful to tell the
agents that he was about to make a loan
and wanted the insurance as part collat-
eral. He learned how to secure an insura-
ble interest, and even went so far as to
have Miss Ging sign a note for $1 as the
“value received” mentioned in the transfer
of the policies. Not one mistake did he
make.
It was the original intention to have
Miss Ging secure a policy for $7,000, and
when she came back and handed him a
policy for $5,000 he was wild, and in the
hearing of his brother, to whom he told
every move in the insurance matter, he
said he was angry enough to kill her for
being such a fool. Then, after the mis-
take, he had her secure the other policy.
She had made another mistake also. In
selecting the form of insurance she had
settled on a policy to be paid in istall-
ments, and Hayward had her change the
plan and take one payable at death.
John Patton, J. E. Hodge, Frederick
White, A. G. Pierce, John G. Purple, F. E.
Crary, George Baker, Charles W. Blyler
and R. H. Gilbert, all life insurance men,
were approached at different times about
insurance. Of Blyler, he asked for defini-
tions of accidents, cited incidents, such as
being pushed from a window, falling out
by accident, falling from an elevator, etc.
Of Mr. Gilbert he asked information in re-
gard to identification. He wanted to know
if it was necessary that remains be identi-
fied in case a building burned and a body
burned in it. He also spoke of a case of

THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. - 29
murder, and asked if payment could be
secured if the insured was killed by an
assassin. In this way he gradually formu-
lated his plan, and discarded some of his
schemes. He wanted to be sure of pay-
ment.
When this was all complete and his mind
satisfied, he began to approach Blixt again.
He had been found the most willing tool,
and upon him he had settled as the means
to accomplish the end. Every night he was
with the engineer in the boiler room of the
Ozark, and together they talked hour after
hour. During all that time he worked upon
the mind of the laborer. At first he did
not want Blixt to do the deed, and he ob-
tained his consent to assist him in dis-
posing of the body. The plans broached
were sickening in their detil.
“Now, you have got to help me,” he said
to Blixt. “You know you fired that barn
for me, and I have an affidavit made out
that you did it, so I have you and can have
you sent to prison for 10 years for that.
You must help me if you want me to keep
quiet.”
“Oh, please don’t,” wailed Blixt. “You
know I did it to please you, and I will
never say a word, but I don’t want to
kill anyone, even to please you. Let me do
anything else, and I will.”
“Well, will you do this?” asked the
tempter. “I will get in the elevator with
the woman when you are running it, and
will knock her senseless with a blow on
the head with a hammer. Then when she
falls, I will lay her so her head is over the
edge of the elevator, and you start it up,
and it will tear her head off. That will
look like an accident.”
‘‘I don’t want to do that—I couldn't!”
cried Elixt.
“Oh, you are a coward,” was the petu-
lant response. “Do you know what I want-
ed you to burn that barn for? It was to
test your nerve.”
“Well, perhaps I haven’t got any nerve,”
said Blixt, simply.
“Don’t you want to make some money
easy” said his tornmentor. He took from
his pocket a roll of bills, and took from its
outside a $100 bill. “Look here, you can
make this easily. Just go out and kill
somebody—anybody—I will see it in the
paper next day, and I will give you this.”
“No, I don’t want it that way.”
“Don’t you want to make $2,000? I will
give it to you if you will kill a woman for
me. Everything is fixed in black and white
and not the smartest detective in the coun-
try will know it.”
Blixt still refused, and Harry left him
in anger. A few nights later Harry again
approached the subject saying that he had
a plan to make it an accident. He would
hire a fractious horse, and fix it so that
Miss Ging would get her hands tangled in
the lines, and be dragged to death. Then
he proposed another scheme. In this, it
was apparent that he was working to have
the death appear like an accidental one, and
thus save any chance for being mixed up
in a crime.
“Blixt,” he said one night, “what Way
would a body fall and strike on a boulder,
if it was thrown from a buggy when a
horse was running away?”
"I suppose that would depend upon
things,” was the reply. “It might fall dif-
ferent, you know.”
“I was just wondering if the head would
fall front with the buggy, or fall back and
strike the other way.
Then he became thoughtful, this prince
of machinators. His vivid imagination was
replete with devices for committing murder,
but he wanted the best way. There was
only one fault with the accident story. The
victim might not be killed, and all his la-
bor would be for nothing. It must be a
murder with the semblance of an accident.
In the dim light of the boiler room he
looked at Blixt as he opened the doors of
the furnace. The red light from the roar-
ing fires lighted up his sallow face, and
threw a gaunt shadow on the wall where
Harry sat. To the musing man he ap-
peared like an imp of satan, only ready to
be nerved up to the deed, to make him a
willing tool. If the worst came to the
worst, he would try whisky as an aid. He
had used it upon Miss Ging when she had
been reluctant to do his bidding. Why not
upon that laboring man who was already in
his power? Blixt, however, had more mind
than Harry gave him credit for.
The reader will wonder, if Blixt was not
a criminal, why he did not at once com-
plain to the police, and put an end to the
whole thing. He knew better than that.
He knew that Hayward was the son of
wealthy parents, a man of society, a man
with standing in the community. He,
Blixt, the laborer, would have been hailed
as a fanatic, and locked up as a black-
mailer. Besides, what proof had he aside
from his bare assertion, and then perhaps
Harry had proof that he fired the barn,
proof that would let him out of the act
entirely. It was out of the question, he
must play out the game to the end.
The laborer in the grease and soot of the
basement was troubled in his mind. He
lost his appetite, was startled at shadows,
became secretive, and his wife noticed his
strange demeanor. To all her questions he
was irritable for the first ime in his life,
and was cross to her. They lived in the
basement near the boiler room, and she
saw Hayward with Blixt frequently, but
she did not suspect that this was the
cause of the trouble. She waited for some
explanation of the mystery, and asked if
they had not better leave the place. Her
husband replied vehemently that he didn't
like the position, and said they had better
hunt for another place. Fate willed that he
should not escape thus. He was in the
hands of his master, and the time set for
his downfall was too soon. His die was
cast, and he must abide by the result.
"Blixt, come here and sit down,” said
Harry to him one night, flinging himself
on the seat near the working bench. “I
want to talk with you.”
The engineer, obedient to the call, leaned
over the bench, and the two put their
heads close together. The one gas jet flick-
ered and threw their shadows on the wall
by their side. There was no one near, and
no sound came to them but the rattle of
the elevator as it went up and down, up
and down, carrying the dwellers in the flat
about their errands. It was a fit place to
plot in, there where people seldom came.
Harry's pet spaniel rubbed himself against
his master's legs and looked up in his
face. It was the one thing Harry loved.
He stroked the head of the animal and





30 THE HISTORY OF
I HE GING MURDER.
smiled one of his rare smiles. Blixt saw
the smile and was relieved.
“I don't want you to do this,” said Har-
ry. “Nobody has nerve to kill a woman.
why, look here, I would sooner kill her
than that dog. I go up to see her, and she
puts her arms around my neck and caresses
ºne, and I would like to stick a knife in
her all the time, damn her. Now, look
here, there is a piece of T rail in the base-
ment, and I want you to cut it. It is too
long now. I want about a foot and a half
of it, you heat it in the furnace and cut
it off, and I will take it. Now, what I will
do is to drive out near a sewer hole, and
1 will pretend to drop some money there.
Then we will get out to look for it, and I
will hit her in the head with the piece of
rail, and kill her, then lay her body so that
it looks as if she had fallen there, and I
will scare the horse and make it run
away. You are to be there with another rig,
and we will drive back.”
Blixt was silent. This new plan did not
make him have a hand in the killing, and
he was not averse to the idea, when it was
taken into consideration what had been
asked of him. He agreed to out the rail,
and Harry left the basement for a time,
until the work should be done. Blixt cut
the rail by heating it, and then cutting it
with an axe. After it was done Harry
came in and found Hans P. Barlow with
Blixt, and so pretended to be angry, and
said:
“Why, you damned fool, I only wanted it
bent; not cut.” -
He took the pieces and went away with
them. This was on Saturday, Dec. 1, two
days before the murder. - -
In the mean time Harry was arranslº
matters with Miss Ging. On Nov. 24 he
made an appointment with Blixt to be at
the office in the Oneida Block, in the morn-
ing. He could make an excuse that he
wanted to have a valve purchased for
some of the radiators in the block. He in-
formed Blixt that there was no danger
of their being caught, for he had planned
that Miss Ging should go out riding alone,
no one would ever suspect that she was
not with other parties. It would avert sus-
picion. Blixt was on hand at the specified
time, and when he arrived he found Harry
there. Miss Ging came in shortly, and the
money was produced by Harry.
“There you are, Kate,” he said, pleas-
antly. “Now you just sign the note, and I
will get another witness.”
He went to call Jack Witherspoon, the
elevator man, and the two came in to-
gether. Mis Ging signed the note and the
two assignments of policies, and Blixt and
Witherspoon witnessed them.
“You had better be sure that the money
is right,” he said to his victim, as per
formula arranged.
Miss Ging took the money and stepped
into an adjoining room, still following the
plan and her instructions. In a few mo-
ments she came back into the office.
“This is $10 short,” she said, still
formula.
“I counted it carefully,” said Harry.
You had better count it over.”
Again she went out of the room and came
back shortly.
“I was mistaken,” said she, smiling. “It
is all right.”
the
anº,
shoved it into a couple of large envelopes
that were laying on the table, put them un-
der her arm, and walked out, drawing on
She took the money in her hands,
her gloves as she went. She was not gone
long when she came back again. Wither-
spoon was running his elevator, and Blixt.
was waiting. She went into the next room
with Harry and there gave him back the
money, the $2,000 which Harry had made
play such a figure in every part of the city,
the money that was supposed to be the
$7,000 loan, that flash roll with the $100
wrapper, and the $1 bills and bills of other
denominations. Then Miss Ging left the
office again.
“Now, Blixt, when we go to the elevator,”
said Harry, “you say to the elevator man,
*— —, what a lot of big bills those were.”
Don't forget to say that.”
The two left the office for the purpose of
buying the valve, and Blixt followed his
instructions. Witherspoon did not wonder
at the large bills, for he had seen Harry
flash that same money so often, making it
do duty as different rolls.
Arrived at the steam fitter's, the valve
was purchased, and Harry remarked that
he had nothing smaller than a $100 bill.
He produced it. Where did he secure it?
It was the wrapper from the flash roll.
Blixt was obliged to pay for the valve
with some of his own money.
Poor deluded Catherine Ging followed
out Hayward's instructions to the letter.
When she handed him the money she left
the building and proceeded to the safety
deposit vaults of the Minnesota Loan and
Trust Company. There she rented a vault
and deposited the envelopes in the box.
The money was not there, however. The
box-renting was only another blind, an-
other link in the chain of Harry's defense.
which he had made the victim herself
forge. This wonderful man subverted every-
thing to his will; used even the victim to
prepare for the escape of the murderer. So
clevrly did he plan everything that if he
had had the physical courage to have fol-
lowed out a plan without an accomplice
he might have escaped the noose.
From this point on some parts of the
history are shrouded in mystery known
only to Harry himself and the murdered
woman. Tuesday, Nov. 27, Miss Ging took
her first drive apparently alone. She hired
a rig and left without an escort, and came
back alone. Harry was her companion,
however, on that drive, and he was follow-
ing out the plan told to Blixt for warding
off suspicion and providing a mysterious
clue to the murderer. Saturday night she
repeates the drive, and again on Sunday
night. Each time she was gone from an
hour to an hour and a half. She came
back alone and Harry was not seen with
her. He instructed her not to tell Miss Ire-
land that they had been out together, for
reasons of his own, and she agreed. She
was also instructed to tell the man at the
livery office that he must not tell Harry
that she was out driving alone, another
part of the scheme. She did as requested.
but she failed him in one thing. She told
her neice that it was Harry she was out
with, but cautioned her not to let Harry
know she had told, and that if he asked
she was to say she didn't know where her
aunt was.
On Saturday night, a few moments before







THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 31
Miss Ging came to her apartments, Harry
called there and asked where Miss Ging
was. True to her promise, Miss Ireland
stated that she did not know, but she
guessed she would return soon. Harry pre-
tended to be worried. As he was going
down he met Miss Ging and they came
back together. In the room he provided a
little theatrical scene for Miss Ireland's
benefit.
“Kate, where have you been,” he said.
*Oh, nowhere,” she replied, striving to
put her arms about his neck. He pushed
them away somewhat angrily.
“You have been out with some other
fellow,” he said, and glanced at Miss
Ireland. It was a part of his plan. It was
working beautifully. Every hour brought
savety to him in his repeated proofs pre-
pared beforehand. He had already the
proof in “black and white” he had re-
ferred to. On Thanksgiving day he had
prepared copies of four letters. Two he
had Miss Ging copy and two he wrote,
keeping the copies of them. His two let-
ters were striking.
In the first one he asked for $2,500, ex-
plaining in detail that she had promised
to give it to him after he had given her
the $7,000. She had promised to give it
to him, and he wanted it. He had done
what he promised and he wanted her to
do the same. To him the letter was a
masterpiece of proof. To an attorney, it
appeared wonderful that he should waste
so much ink in explaining to her a busi-
ness transaction about which she remem-
bered every detail.
Her answer was that she did not have
it to give. That $2,000 that he had seen
her have in the restaurant was not her
own. She didn’t see what he wanted of
so much anyway, and wouldn't less, say
$1,000 do. His answer to this was a further
explanation the loan, also for proof. He
“liked her nerve to ask him if less
wouldn't do when she owed him $9,500.”
Her answer to this was that he could
have it by Jan. 1. The letters were sent
by a messenger boy, and he filed them
away to use as proof when the time came.
Again he had used the victim to assist
in freeing the assassin.
Friday Harry was in the best of spirits.
His scheme was working well, nad he went
to the office to again look over his policies.
Adry was there and in his triumph, he
informed him that it was time for the
dressmaker to die. Everything was ready,
and she had but a few days to live. He
had found a man with more nerve than
Adry.
"Blixt is the man,” he cried. “I have
tried him, and he has more nerve than
you.”
Then followed a scene such as can hardly
be described.
Don't you do it, Harry,” cried Adry. “If
you do you will hang for it.”
Harry's eyes blazed. For the first time
in his career the tiger in his disposition as-
sented itself. His jaws came together, and
ward, and came to where Adry was sitting.
ward, and came to where Adry was sitting.
He leaned over, and his fingers worked
nervously. He was for a moment a fiend
incarnate. Could it be possible that there
could be such a transformation? was this
the quiet, the smooth, purring, plausible
man who could so work and mould men and
women to his will?
Adry drew back, and tried to be con-
ciliatory. Harry came closer until his
breath was upon Adry's face. His fingers
touched his neck, played over his head,
worked as if they were a mass of nerves,
as if they itched to throttle that brother.
“Be quiet, Harry,” said Adry, soothingly.
“You are not yourself, you don’t know
what you are doing.”
“You devil,” cried Harry. “How dare
you? Never let me hear you say that word
again. Don't you do it.”
It was moments, but it seemed hours to
Adry. Then he managed to extricate him-
self from his brother, and he went home
and secured his revolver, then came down
town again. He was about the office for
some time, but his excitement preyed upon
him, and he went to L. M. Stewart, and
told him of the scene. Stewart, that old
friend of the family, did not believe him,
and tried to calm his fears. Adry left him,
and never breathed a word of it to a soul.
The world will wonder why he did not
inform his mother or his father, and let
those two take Harry in hand, and dis-
suade him from his purpose, but there was
a skeleton there. That family had been
rent in twain, and he knew he would not
be believed, knew that any such tale would
revert upon his own head. He could not
turn to them for aid, for prevntion of the
coming disaster. He knew they would not
believe him.
Once before it had come to a trial of be-
lief between himself and Harry, and he
had secured the worst of it in a scene
which beggars description. Oct. 7 before,
only a short time, his father had accused
Adry of being short in his accounts at the
office. Adry had been the plodder, the
worked; Harry, the pet, the spendthrift,
the idol of his mother's heart, the pride of
the home. Adry went to his father's flat,
and with his father and mother, was Harry.
He half suspected that Harry had been
poisoning their minds against him, and he
was angry when he came in. Harry was
lying on the lounge.
“Mother,” cried Adryw.
accuse inne of this?”
She made no denial, and the father in-
sisted that he should pay back the money.
“I know it is short, and I can’t account
for it,” said Adry. “Give me time and per-
haps it will come right.”
The old gentleman was passionate and
would not take an explanation. In his an-
ger, Adry swore at them all. The father
struck him, and the mother looked on
calmly. Adry was beside himself, and
knew not what he said. Harry took hold
of him, and cried,
“You move your duds out of this. Leave
the room now.”
This angered Adry the more, and he ac-
cused his father and mother of nameless
things, and then went to his flat. He had
no sympathy there. “If you think I am a
thief, mother,” he cried as he left,” why
did you raise such a litter of pups?”
The strained relations between himself
and parents made it impossible for him to
so to them; Mr. Stewart would not listen
to him, and he must of necessity let mat-
ters go on as they had begun. He was a
Yººns man with not as keen sense of right
as most men. His training had been in a
“Do you mean to




32 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
school where love and affection was not a
key note. His father was superstitious and
impressionable; his mother cold, stern and
to an extent unloving. There was not that
spirit of love in the family to bind it to-
gether, to make it a place to breathe mor-
ality, or to teach love and right dealing
with fellow man. It had taught rather a
survival of the fittest, a spirit of innate
selfishness. Its creed was to look out for
number one, to let the rest of the world
take care of itself.
So the plotter was allowed to run loose,
was permitted to fulfill his design s, while
the sweet woman, the trusting woman, the
loving woman suspected nothing, and the
hours wore away to the final minute when
she was to meet her fate at the hands of
the unfeeling assassin.
Saturday night, Harry had another inter-
view with Blixt.
“I couldn’t make it an accident,” he said.
“The chances were against me. I took the
rail along, and dropped it out. There was
no use, I couldn’t make it that way.”
Blixt was silent, and was glad that his
employer had decided that it couldn’t be
done. He was not long of that mind, how-
ever, for his Satanic Majesty was at hand
with another plan.
“I tell you how we will fix it,” he said.
“You take the Hennepin car out to Lake
street, and then walk out on the road to
the side of the lake at the other end. You
wait there until I come along. When you
see me drive up I will have the body, for
I will have done the deed. Then you be
there with another rig, and I will take
that. You take the body and keep it away
until I have time to get back to the city.
Don’t leave her until you are sure she is
dead, and then you scare the horse, and
make him run away, and you can walk in.”
This proposition did not meet with the
favor of Blixt. He said little, however,
and as Harry did not press him, he re-
mained silent. The fact was Harry never
intended to commit the murder himself.
All these plans witre for the purpose of
showing Blixt that he did not mind killing
the woman, and that only the opportunity
was against him. This latter plan was not
arranged, and Blixt never thought of it
again until he came to confess to the offi-
cers, and then he used it as his first con-
fession. In that confession he placed the
crime upon Harry as Harry had planned,
and followed it up with the actual occur-
rances after he had disposed of the body.
“Do not leave her until she is dead.”
He did not. When the time came to com-
mit the deed he followed out that part of
the program to the letter.
“Well, there is going to be a funeral here
before the 10th,” said Harry, gloomily.
“Under what circumstances will cut no
figure, but the funeral will have to come.
After I have killed her she will be brought
in here, and I will be as sorry as the rest
of them. I will be with her in the flat,
and will have to watch over her corpse all
night, and when the coroner has looked
the body over and everything is settled,
we will take her East.
“You see, Blixt, I have got to make
$15,000. This scheme will clear me $10,000,
and I have got $5,000 to make some other
way, to raise the amount to complete a
plan I have in my head. You can’t under-
stand that, but I am going to marry a rich
woman there, and then kill her off. Now,
I think of it, that plan to burn the flats
and the dressmaker with them won’t work.
The insurance men tell me that I can’t
get the money unless the body is identi-
fied.”
Monday, Dec. 3, the fatal day, arrived.
At about 10 o’clock in the morning Harry
met Thomas Waterman down town and
arranged with him to call upon Miss Ging.
“You see, Waterman,” he said, “I have
loaned her a whole pile of money to go
into business with, and I don’t feel just
right. She agreed to let me have $2,500 of
it back and when I ask her for it she just
talks about the weather; you know how she
does it, and won’t give me any satisfaction.
Now, I want you to go to see her—don't
scare her, you know—just see her and find
out if she is really going into business. I
think she is going to do me up, and I want
to be sure. If she is not going into busi-
ness I want to know it, and then I will
attach her money. Find where she keeps
it if you can and then I will know where
to serve the attachment.”
Waterman was willing to help out his
friend. The two separted and Waterman
sought out Miss Ging. He found her at her
dressmaking parlors and made the required
inquiries.
“I hear you are going into business soon
on a larger scale '' he said.
“Did Harry tell you?” she said, “Yes, I
an. I have been to look at that store
across the way and I think I will secure
it.”
“It will take a lot of money, will it not?”
asked Waterman.
“Oh, yes, of course,” was the answer. “I
intend to fit it up in fine style.”
“I suppose you have the money?”
“Yes, lots of it,” was the laughing reply.
“We could paint the town very nicely now,
Waterman.”
The young man saw Hayward later in
the day and reported his success. Harry
pretended to be satisfied. In the mean-
time, shortly before noon, Harry called at
Miss Ging's parlors. He only remained for
a short time, sufficient to make arrange-
ments for the ride that night. What they
were will forever remain a mystery, per-
haps. It is known that he planned to have
her secure a rig and start with it about 7
o'clock from the West Hotel. From there
she was to drive to Thirteenth street, a
block from the Ozark flats, and there wait
for him. Then he left her. She had just
received a note sent her by messenger and
she had torn it up before Harry came. It
was probably sent by one of Harry's
agents, but that fact is not known.
From there Harry went and met Water-
man and was informed of the report as
described. He appeared satisfied, and the
two went on a trip that had been indulged
in in the past. Waterman amused Harry,
who was in the habit of filling him up and
laughing at him when he was full. Hay-
ward was careful in his drinking, and there
were few who had ever seen him drunk,
although he had often been in that condi-
tion when not gambling. He was too core-
ful to gamble when intoxicated. Another
peculiarity of his character was that he
seldom swore in ordinary conversation,
but when angered he was foul in the use






























THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 33
of invectives and oaths of the most pro-
found significance.
The pair went to innumerable saloons,
met some women, went to a wine room,
waterman geting more mellow at every
step. Once in the afternoon Harry left
Waterman for a few moments, but met
him later. In his pocket all that day he
carried one of the tools of his design. In
the morning he had stopped in at a saloon
and purchased a half pint flask of whisky.
It was never referred to in all his wander-
ings. He drank little, Waterman drank
much. Harry was waiting for the night,
and summing up his plans. All was nearly
ready.
Saturday morning Harry completed the
last part of the plan of concealment. He
had in his possession the watch that was
taken from himself when he was held up
in April. If that was discovered in his pos-
session, it would be shown that he had
been connected with the hold up. He had a
large number of $1 bills, that were used
in making the flash roll. A number of
these he had given to Adry to keep and
he had collected it from him in small
sums, in larger bills, but he had more.
They must be disposed of. He had a box of
cartridges. That box of cartridges was pe-
culiar. The cartridges he usually used in
his revolver were common 45 short Colts.
He had purchased another box of a dif-
ferent make, and taken six of them from
the box, enough to load the chambers.
This must be hidden. -
Saturday morning he took all these ar-
ticles to Blixt, and asked him to seal
them in a tin box and hide them. Blixt did
so, and went to the attic with the box
and placed it into an old white lead keg.
Some hours later Harry became anxious
about them and asked Blixt where he had
hidden them. He was told, and he raved.
“That's the first place they would look
for them,” he said, “Go and get the box.”
Blixt went and secured it, and Harry
took it away. In his room he opened it, and
took out the articles. How he disposed
of them was never known, but he told
Blixt he intended to hide them in the
woods in a hollow tree. The watch he took
down town, and left in a jewelry store to
be repaired. There it remained for months
until the trial.
Shortly before 6 o'clock Harry and Wa-
terman stanted for home, the former for
the Ozark flats and the latter to his board-
ing house a few doors away. On their
way they stopped in at the West Hotel
and procured some drinks. Waterman was
so full he did not know where he was
going. From there they went to the cor-
ner of Thirteenth street and Hennepin av-
enue, straight up the street about three
quarters of a mile, where stood the Ozark
flats. The time was approaching. The
deed was almost perpetrated.
Arrived at the flats, Harry began to
work. He had not much time to lose if
he carried out all his plans, and here his
indomitable energy for crime came into
play. His first trip was into the basement
where Blixt was at work. He came in
in a hurry.
“Here Blixt,”
whisky.”
“I don't want it,” was the petulant re-
ply.
he cried, “Here is some
“You dam fool this is not common whis-
ky,” was the retort. “Take some of it.”
Harry drew the flask from his pocket,
and handed it to Blixt who attempted to
put it away.
“You get another bottle,” cried Harry.
“I want that one back.”
Blixt hunted up a bottle and poured
the whisky in, first taking a long drink.
Harry put the flask back in his pocket.
“Now look here Blixt,” he said. “The
time has come. She has got to die to-
night, for she has lived long enough. There
is $10,000 in it, and you will get half. I’ll
divide even. Here is my gun. You had
better strap this to your wrist with a
string so that you won’t lose it.”
“No, I won’t do it,” said Blixt.
“Now look here,” cried Harry. “You’ve
got to. How about your wife. I think
she knows too much already. She is bet-
ter out of the way. I will kill her first.
She knows too much.”
“I haven’t told her anything,” wailed
Blixt, now startled. “She doesn't know a
thing. Do you think I would tell her?”
“Well, I guess I will kill her anyway.
You know me, and you know I always
do what I say.”
“I know that Harry, but don't kill my
wife, You know I don’t care what you
do with me, but don't kill my wife—don't
kill my wife.”
Here the main burst out crying, and
begged his employer to spare the life of
his wife.
“I’ll do anything you tell me, only don’t
kill my wife.”
‘That's right,” cried Harry, triumph in
his ſtones. “You only have to do as I say
and all will be straight, and no one will
ever know. Take this gun, and here are
six cartridges, they are extra long. After
you kill her, I want you to come back and
put the revolver under my pillow in my
flat. Before you do that, you must take
out these cartridges and replace them with
cartridges from this box of mine. Put
them in different pockets so they won't
get mixed.”
Blixt did as requested. He put the re-
volver in his outside coat pocket, the
cartridges in the box in the other, and
the six in his hip pocket on the other side-
Harry then left him and stated that he
would be back soon.
Time was flying, and the plotter had
much left to be done. With flying feet he
hurried up to the fifth floor, and rapped at
the door of Miss Ging's room. Miss Ire-
land came to the door.
“Is Kate home?” he asked.
“No, she is not,” was the reply.
Harry did not wait there. He went at
once to his flat, and washed his hands.
Then he went to the dining room where
the family took their meals, next door to
the flat, and had a hasty supper. He only
ate a little soup, and refused the balance
of his dinner. It was after 7 o'clock when
he finished, and Miss Ging might be even
then waiting for him. Hurriedly he left
the room, and crossed the street. A block
away he saw the buggy on First avenue
north. He jumped in, and taking the lines
drove out the street, explaining his plans
all the way, plans that may never be
known, for the excuse given to Kate Ging
has never been made public, and is known
only to Hayward.


34 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
He drove out Lyndale avenue, and there
met a buggy in which a man was driving.
He did not notice him. It was M. D. Wil-
son. From there he drove out on Kenwood
boulevard, two blocks, and showed a point
where she was to wait for him. Then he
left her, and hurried back two blocks to
Hennepin avenue. He ran across a lot,
and jumped to the sidewalk. A street car
was just passing, and it partly stopped, the
conductor thinking he wanted to board it.
He ran swiftly up the street toward the
Ozark. He was obliged to hurry for it was
20 minutes after 7 o'clock, and he had still
much to do.
Arrived at he flats, he hurried upstairs
and then in a quiet way called at his moth-
er's flat. His parents were both there and
he talked with them a short time. Then he
went upstairs and hurriedly put on a clean
collar and his best suit. Then he called at
Miss Ging's flat again and was informed by
Miss Ireland that Miss Ging was not there.
He was making an alibi for himself all the
time. From there he went to his brother's
flat.
“You had better be somewhere tonight,”
he said, after Adry's wife had left the
room. “Something is going to happen. By
the way, let me have some money.”
“How much?” asked Adry.
“Oh, I don't know.
Adry gave him $5, and then as Harry was
going out he turned to Adry again.
“You had better be somewhere tonight,”
he said. “If you stay at home your wife's
evidence will be no good as to your where-
abouts. Go where you will be seen.”
“Well, if you won’t do that,” said Harry
"go into my room at about 9 o'clock and
see if my revolver is not under the pillow.
Then he left and hurried on. Again he
went to the basement after Blixt and saw
that he had been partaking of the whisky.
It was nearer 8 than 7 o'clock and no time
was to be lost.
“My wife wants to know if she can take
her sewing machine into your room to
sew,” asked Blixt. -
“Oh, I don't care,” cried Harry, impa-
tiently. “Here, hurry up now. Put on your
coat and go up Hennepin avenue until you
come to that vacant lot near the park.
Wait there until you see me come. I will
tell you what to do then.”
He hurried the only half willing man on
with his coat, and saw that he left the
basement on his way, but he was not yet
through. He raced up stairs, and on the
next floor met Mrs. Blixt who asked him.
about the sewing machine. He had no
time to waste with her, so he gave his con-
sent, and proceeded to his mother's flat
again. He entered it calmly.
“Are you going out, Harry?” she asked,
noticing that he was dressed.
“Oh, I dont know,” he answered in his
lazy drawl. “I may, perhaps.”
“We are not going to have company, are
weº a trifle archly, for he had often
brought Miss Ging to call there, using the
supposed sanctity of that home as a cloak
to calm any fears she might have.
“No, not tonight, mother. I think I will
go out, perhaps.”
Then he left the flat, and everything was
clear. He had alibi upon alibi, and as he
hurried away, he thought himself secure.
With great haste he sped down the avenue,
and saw Blixt on the corner. Giving him
a signal to follow, he cut across the lot,
as he had done some time before, and two
blocks away, was the buggy. He signalled
Miss Ging, and she drove to the side of the
road to wait. Blixt came up behind him.
“Here is the man who will drive you,
Kate,” he said. “Now, don't lose any time,
but drive out there and I will meet you.
This man is all right, he is one of the
gang and knows all about it.”
The unfortunate woman never spoke a
word as Blixt was helped into the buggy
by Hayward. His hat fell off and Hayward
handed it to him.
“Don’t be long, Harry,” Miss Ging called
out, as Blixt started the horse and drove
away.
Hayward never answered. He sent that
trusting girl to her death without a word
of warning, without a pang of regret. He
lifted the assassin into the buggy armed
with the deadly weapon without one feel-
ing of regret, and saw the woman who
loved him speed away into the darkness,
without even a good bye. He had promised
to meet her. Never will he fulfill that
promise until his soul crosses the great
Styx and meets her face to face in that
land beyond.
One way the buckskin horse and top
buggy disappeared in the distance, and
the other sped Harry Hayward, not pur-
sued by remorse, nor urged on by fear,
but with the end in view of being in other
places, except for the few minutes he had
been with Miss Ging and with Blixt on the
road. On he sped, towards the residence of
Charles J. Bartleson, a prominent attorney.
On his way he slipped and fell upon the
sidewalk, just as he passed Mrs. Jeanette
W. Hale and her daughter, who were go-
ing to the theater. He was on his feet in
an instant, and sped along. Soon he was
ringing at the door of the attorney.
Mabel Bartleson came to the door, and
after a few seconds of conversation the
two went into the house. Harry had asked
her if she would not like to go to the thea-
ter. She was willing to go with the young
man to whom she was reputed to be en-
gaged, and told him so, but was afraid there
was not time.
Here again the alibi came into the plan.
Harry took out his watch and saw that it
was four minutes of 8 o’clock.
“How is your time Mr. Bartleson?” he
asked.
“Pretty near the same,” was the reply,
as the speaker glanced at the clock.
“Is the clock right?” asked Harry.
“I regulate it by my watch,” said Mr.
Bartleson, taking out his watch for refer-
ence. “Yes, it's correct.”
Miss Bartleson agreed to go, and went up
stairs to dress. In less time than five
minutes she was ready, thus breaking the
record in that line as far as any report
has ever been received from womankind.
The couple left the house, and caught the
same car upon which Mrs. and Miss Hale
rode to the theater. They arrived there
shortly after the curtain went up, and were
seen by dozens of friends. The alibi was
complete.
Out through the darkness drove the mur-
derer and his victim. In the glare and glit-
ter sat the plotter, smiling at the play,
nodding to friends, chatting with his com-
Danlon.
He was a happy man that night.


THE History of T
HE GING MURDER.
MURDER. -
Far away, coming from the city, faintly
rolled the toll of the tells striking the hour
of 8. The faint glimmer of day that clung
to the west, was making a last effort to
combat the curtain of night, now fallen
upon the city. For miles the star-like glit-
ter of the electric street lights pierced the
gloom above, and sent their countless rays
like small auroras through the mists of the
metropolis. All this came to Catherine
Ging as she turned and looked out at the
side of that buggy, where the leather cur-
tains were drawn close. She paid no heed
THE
to her silent driver. Her thoughts were
elsewhere.
Lucy, the little buckskin mare, needed
little driving. She was a veteran livery
horse, and knew what was expected of her.
Blixt turned and drove out Hennepin boule-
vard, and the little mare clattered along
merrily. As they passed the electric lights,
both instinctively drew back into the
shadow of the curtains. That grim man was
a prey to his thoughts, the woman was
ashamed of being in the company of that
grim spectre. She glanced at him careless-
ly. She saw a short, thickset figure, with a
sallow face, a short mustache that drooped
over the weak mouth. The eyes were gray
and devoid of character, the nose turned
up, the brow was overshadowed by a wool-
en cap with a visor. He was clad in a
ready made dark gray sack suit, nearly
new, but wore no overcoat. His hands were
black and greasy, from the oils and soot of
the engine room. He did not look at her,
and he had crowded himself as far away
to the other side of the buggy as possible.
Her genteel appearance awed him, and he
had never before sat so near a sealskin
Sacque.
Miss Ging fell to pondering. What would
be the outcome of the night? She had fol-
lowed Harry's directions. She had taken
the rig at the West Hotel as requested,
and had told Harry Goosman not to tell
Hayward that she was out riding. She
remembered eyery little detail well. Then
she smiled a little as she remembered how
absent minded she had been. As she had
turned the corner from the West Hotel,
she had nearly run over an old man who
was carrying a cord wood stick in his
arms. She remembered him as the man
who kept a cigar stand at the corner of
the baseball park. His face stood out
clear and distinct before her. She remem-
bered that he had nodded to her and look-
ed after her as she drove away. How little
did she know the important part that old
man would play in the punishment of her
slayer.
They reached Lake street without ex-
changing a word between them, and turned
toward the lake. The road was deserted
except for a few skaters going toward the
ice. Then she addressed a few questions
to her companion, but received replies in
unmeaning words. He knew nothing of the
plans. Harry had told her what he thought,
and she must trust to Harry. She did.
Would Harry be coming soon? He suppos-
ed so, if he had said he would. Then they
were silent again. They kept close in the
shadow, for Harry had cautioned them to.
It must be about time for Harry to be
coming with the two-horse rig. Miss Ging
began to be nervous. She wanted to look
back, but resisted the temptation.
They reached the boat house and turned
to the road that skirted the lake to the
right. They heard the merry skaters and
the cracking of the ice. It was chilly and
Miss Ging buttoned her cloak tight about
her neck.
“If you are cold take
said Blixt.
“No, never mind,” she replied, absently.
but Blixt took the robe from his knees
and pressed it about her, wedging it be-
tween him and her on the seat.
He was getting nervous. The horse clat-
terd along, and sped by the lake to where
the electric car track turned onto the road.
Blixt began to be filled with fear. He re-
solved to stop the horse and jump from
the buggy and leave her there to drive
home alone, and then flee the city.
But his wife. What would she do if left
to the mercies of the fiend who urged him
on. She would be left at his mercy and
he would kill her. He had said so and he
would keep his word. Blixt bit his lips and
his brows contracted. He felt for the re-
volver, and, taking it out from his pocket,
placed it on the seat at his side. He al-
most wished the jolting of the buggy would
lose it in the road, but it lay there wedged
in, for he was sitting on only about one-
third of the seat. The victim noticed that
he had something. -
“What have you there?” she asked. -
“It’s a revolver,” he replied coolly.
“Harry gave it to me. He said we might
be held up, and a revolver was a good
thing to have out here.”
“Oh,” she said. That was all. She had
no suspicion. No mental voice warned her
of the impending danger. -
The frozen lake was passed and the little
horse trotted along at a brisk gait and the
rig crossed the car track and rattled into
the country road. The lights of a house
appeared on the right and then on the left,
the only two habitations near there. Then
they drove between bushes and on through
a dismal swamp where the spectral trunks
of the tamaracks gleamed in the rays of
the sinking moon. Still on they sped.
The report of a firearm came to them
from behind, but they were so absorbed in
thought that they paid little attention to
it. The woman began to wonder what had
become of Hayward, and she leaned out of
the buggy and looked to the side to see if
she could see the rig waiting.
Blixt fingered his revolver, but his heart
failed him. He could not use it.
Again and again his companion looked
out, and as often Blixt essayed to nerve
himself for the murderous act. He could
not do it. On flew the little mare.
“I don’t see why Harry is not here,” the
lady said, petulantly. She was becoming
nervous and her companion saw it.
He must finish his work at once or fail
forever.
Five minutes had elapsed since he had
heard that shot, and the tops of tall trees
were in the distance. They were almost in
the woods, and she would be alarmed
shortly. The woods were reached, and
Blixt held the revolver in his right hand
and drove with his left.
Would she never look out again? They
came to a little clearing at the right—a
small swamp. His companion moved her-
more of the robe,”





36 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIURDER.
self forward in the seat to look out again.
Blixt clutched his revolver.
She took hold of the buggy bow, and
leaned out to look behind. The buggy was
near a little creek in the woods.
Blixt raised the revolver, and without
1ooking, pulled the trigger. Just as he did
so, his companion drew her body back into
the seat, and her head almost touched the
muzzle of the murderous weapon, just as
the flash came, and the bullet crashed
through the skull.
Responsive to the muscular intention
premeditated by the brain, the body sat
back in the seat, and straightened itself up
in the corner, the head leaning against
the top.
The bullet had entered near the right ear,
just where her lover had told Blixt to fire.
It had pierced the brain, and death was
instantaneous. The victim never knew
pain, never knew her danger until white-
winged, her soul soared to the infinite, and
became a thing of the hereafter.
The blood gushed from the wound, and
ran down her back.
Blixt dropped the smoking revolver into
his pocket, and looked at the body with:
a species of stupified horror. The dead
eyes stared at him, and he shuddered with
fear. With a groan of agony, he clutched
the goatskin robe in his left hand, and
pulled its ample length over the form,
pressing the hand against the face with
the corner of the robe under it. It hid the
horrid sight from him, but he shuddered
still.
The little mare trotted merrily on.
The body was erect, held there by the
pressure of the hand, and the pressure of
his body against it. The goatskin robe
was between him and the corpse.
He pulled up on the horse, and almost
stopped her, drawing her to the side of
the road. The intelligent animal knew she
was expected to turn, and did so care-
fully. There was only room to do so in the
narrow road. She tried to trot, but Blixt.
held her to a walk. He was afraid the body
would jolt down.
For the time being he was stupefied, and
could not reason how it was best to act.
Some one might have heard the shot and
come to look. It would not do to dispose
of the body then. The horse walked on,
back toward the city.
The dead woman was silent, was awful,
was a horror. The murderer could not
think. He started straight ahead, and the
terror was all about him. He had killed the
woman, and had obeyed his employer's
commands, but he was filled with an ague
of superstitious horror.
The blood oozed from the wound in that
poor head. It ran down the back of the
leather top to the bottom of the buggy.
It ran about the neck of the cloak, and
trickled down between the clothing and the
body, saturating the underclothing. It ran
in a steady stream over the fur cloak, to
the back of the cushion, and then to the
paddle seat itself.
There was a pool gradually growing
larger between the body and the murderer,
mingled with the brain matter from the
pierced head.
Not a drop touched the murderer. The
heavy robe was between the body and him-
self, and the arm of the woman made an
open space for the blood to run so that it
reached the seat between the body and the
robe.
Drip, drip, drip-
The pool on the seat began to separate,
and the thin ingredients of the life fluid
dropped from the edge of the seat to the
buggy bottom.
But the murderer knew it not. No thought
of blood came to him, and it was the
merest chance that he was not saturated
with the vital fluid of his victim. The
body felt sickening under his hand and
arm. He began to freeze with terror. He
was nearly mad with fright.
In the distance gleamed the lights of the
city. There came to him the distant rum-
ble of an approaching electric car. This
woke him to action. If he proceeded far-
ther, he would be driving through the
streets of the city with his terrible silent
companion. With a jerk he stopped the
horse, and laid the lines on the dash board.
He reached down, keeping the robe ever
over the figure, for he dreaded a sight of
that dead face again.
He lifted the feet over the side of the
buggy. Every muscle was limp. The body
slid forward, gave a lurch, the head struck
the wheel, then the hub, then the ground,
the body rolled over, the startled horse
gave a jump, the wheel passed over the
body, and the horse golloped off, with its
stupefied, its terror stricken occupant.
On the road lay the corpse with the bul-
let wound in its head, a fracture on both
sides of the skull, the lip split, the nose
broken, and bruised over the right eye.
“Do not leave her until she is dead.”
The murderer had carried out his instruc-
tions.
The horse galloped on. An electric car
flashed into sight, a man alighted, the rig
passed him, turning out of the way, and
William Erhardt passed up the road to
find the body, which if he had been but a
few monents earlier, he would have seen
hurled from the buggy.
Blixt pulled up on the horse, and stopped
its running, then with tight lines at a
brisk trot the little mare sped toward
home. It passed two men near the lake,
who looked after it. H. Percy Woods and
Harold C. Stevens with William Erhardt,
were the only living beings who noticed
that buggy.
Back from where it came the mare went,
at a lively pace, while Erhardt was finding
the body a half mile away. The murderer
drove to Lyndale avenue, straight up Lake
street. He was growing calmer. He was
rid of the horror. Harry had said there
was not the least danger of exposure, and
as courage returned Blixt almost laughed.
It was all over, the deed was done. His
terror was past, he felt relieved, almost
happy. What a terrible thing it had been.
It seemed hours that he was driving with
that dead body.
What time could it be. He looked at his
watch, and then remembered that it had
stopped. He drew up the horse, let the
lines drop between the whip and dash, and
sprang out, letting the horse with its
bloody buggy go where it wished. The lit-
tle mare started off toward home at a jog
trot, jerking its nose and throwing its head
up and down. She was tired. The poor lit-
tle beast had been an unconscious assist-
ant in a terrible tragedy.
The murderer, with the revolver in his







THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 37
ket, went up Lyndale avenue to the
Hºs and Dakota railroad tracks,
more relieved that ever, yet strange to
say, never once thinking of the possibility
that there might be blood upon him.
straight up the tracks he walked to where
there was a switchman's shanty. A. ºne-
armed switchman was there whom Blixt.
had known, and going to the door of the
shanty he pushed it open. But a stranger
was within. -
ºwhere's the Swede watchman now?" ne
asked.
Thomas Kennedy, the aged flag man,
looked up, and saw the intruder. He no-
ticed that he spoke in gutteral tones, but
did not notice anything strange in his ap-
pearance. -
*He's not here now,” was the reply. “It's
a cold night, isn't it?” -
“Not very,” says Blixt. He was in a
sweat. It was a hot night for him. He
left the shanty and walked down the
tracks to Twenty-seventh street, where he
calmly awaited for a car. There was no
Lyndale avenue car in sight, and he walked
two blocks until one came up. He boarded
it and calmly rode into town, with several
other passtngers. Not one of them noticed
him, not one of them knew they were rid-
ing with a man upon whom fate had placed
the brand of Cain, and that he was fresh
from his horrible crime. That he was
fresh from the most unpardonable of all
murders, the killing of a defenseless
woman, for another, with no apparent mo-
tive.
The car reached Washington avenue, two
miles away, before Blixt noticed that he
was a mile beyond the Ozark flats. Then
he remembered that he had been obliged to
get his wife an excuse for his going out
that night. He had told her that he was
going to South Minneapolis to collect a
debt from a fellow workman, who owed
him $1.30 for several years. He must fol-
low out that plan to quiet his wife.
He walked up Washington avenue to
First avenue south, two blocks, and board-
ed a Bloomington avenue car. He rode up-
on that to Franklin avenue, a mile and a
half away, from Franklin to Twelfth
street, thence to Twenty-third street.
avenue, thence to Twenty-third street.
He mounted the stairs of a house, in the
rear, and rapped at the door. No one
replied to the knock, and as he could see
no light, he went away. He took the re-
turning car and rode down again to Wash-
ington avenue, a mile away from the
Ozark. While passing a saloon he met a
man he had known, who called him in
to Swanson's saloon, and they shook dice.
Blixt was getting calmer. The murderer
was forgetting his crime. The still, quiet
body was lying on the slab at the morgue,
not half a mile distant. Blixt had almost
passed the body when he came from South
Minneapolis on the Bloomington car, for
the car had passed only a hundred feet
from the morgue, where his bleeding vic-
tim lay cold in death.
He took several glasses of beer with his
riotous companions, and then left the sa–
loon. A few doors up the avenue was the
jewelry store of Leopold Metzgar. It was
the place where Blixt had purchased his
watch. Collecting himself, he remembered
that the jeweler had guaranteed his watch
for a year. He went to the store and tried
to enter. The door was locked, but there
was a man inside. Blixt insisted and the
man let him in, and the watch was left
for repairs. It was getting late, after 9
o'clock, and he must get back to the flats
and obey Harry's commands.
He walked up Hennepin avenue, to the
flats. He met hundreds of people, but none
of them read his secret, or even looked at
him. He was a common man, with nothing
extraordinary about him. There were three
minute spots of blood upon his coat near
the left lapel. They were so small that he
never knew of them until Juror Timber-
lake discovered them at the trial. He
walked leisurely, and arrived at the flats
before 10 o’clock.
He went striaght to Harry's flat on the
first floor. Harry was not yet home.
Through all that terrible time he had been
chatting with Miss Bartelson at his side,
laughing at the play, nodding to friends
in the theater.
The ladies
glasses.
“That's Harry Hayward,” some said.
“Do you know he's just too delightfully
risque—gambles they say—but awfully en-
tertaining. They say he's to be married to
the young lady–Miss Bartelson, you
know.”
Blixt entered his bath room, and turned
up the light. He took the revolver from
his pocket for the first time. He ejected
the five filled shells and the one empty one.
and put them in his coat pocket. Then he
reached in his hip pocket, took out the six,
cartridges Harry had given him, and filled
the cylinder. He took the weapon into the
other room, and placed it under the pillow
of Harry's bed. Then he left the flat and
went down stairs.
From there he went hurriedly to the boil-
er room, and threw the five loaded cart-
ridges and the shell into the furnace fire.
There was a little volley of light explosion,
after which he left and went into his
rooms. His wife was not yet asleep. He
undressed and went to bed.
“What's the matter with you, Claus?”
asked his wife. -
Blixt did not answer. He rolled over in
bed, and essayed to sleep. -
“You’ve been drinking,” cried his wife.
“I can smell it on you. What do you want
to do that again for?”
Blixt grunted an unintelligible reply, and
kept silent. He was tired, worn out with
the strain upon him, but he could not
sleep. An hour afterward Harry came to
the door, and called.
“Blixt, are you asleep?”
“No,” was the reply.
Hayward came into the room and passed
to a closet where there was a water meter.
“Do you know, Blixt, that this meter
leaks nights?” -
Blixt did not answer, but their eyes met.
Harry nodded his head expressively, and
Blixt answered in the same manner. The
two understood each other. The deed was
done. Harry heaved a satisfied sigh.
“My brother-in-law told me that a lady
on the fifth floor got hurt out driving,”
said Blixt.
“Is that so? Is she hurt very bad? I
guess I will go up and see.”
Then Harry left, and Blixt slept. His
work was done, he had made his report,
had ogled him with their



38
THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
and with that terrible load of guilt on
his soul he could sleep by the side of his
innocent wife.
At about 4 o'clock in the morning, Hay-
ward came to the door of the bedroom
again, and called in a loud voice.
“Blixt, are you awake. The dressmaker
has been killed-murdered. I have been
down town, and it is she all right. She
has been out with some fellows of hers,
and they have murdered her, and my
money is gone? I have lost my $7,000.
They have done me up. I have been up-
stairs talking to the little girl to see if
she knows anything about it, but she
don't—can’t tell me anything. I don’t
know whether it would be best for me
to go down in the morning and notify the
insurance companies at once, or not.”
Blixt did not answer, and he went away.
Morning dawned, and the time came
when Harry was interviewed by the of
ficials. Before he went he took Adry, his
brother, to his fiat and cleaned his re-
volver, in his presence.
“It’s like finding money,” he said, smil-
ing, and chuckling.
Blixt went about his work unnoticed.
Harry reported to him the proceedings
with the officials.
“Those darn fools down there think I
know something about it,” he said. “They
took me to the corpse and thought I would
break down and say I did it. They must
take me for a fool.”
“If you get arrested again, will you
hold out?” asked Blixt anxiously. “Won't
you testify then?”
“Not in 40 years,” was the distainful
reply. He was certain of himself, sure of
his nerve. “See here Blixt, do you think
your wife could be brought to tell any-
thing?”
“My wife don't know anything,” said
Blixt, startled, visions of Harry's former
threat coming to him. “You needn't be
afrair of that. And she ain’t the woman
that can be bought for this whole house.”
Harry was satisfied, and went away,
never to see Blixt again until he saw him
in the court room, swearing away his life
on the stand.
Blixt plodded along at his work. Friday
afternoon, two newspaper men went to the
basement. They were trying to find out
if any clothing had been burned in the
furnace. One of the men spoke up in a
jocular way:
“See here,” he cried, looking at Blixt.
who was wiping the boiler. “You can tell
us more than anybody else about this
murder.”
Blixt was startled. It was the first in-
timation he had that he was suspected,
even though at that time the men did
not mean what they said. His eyes blazed,
and his hands worked. He was in a rage.
“Do you mean that?” he cried, walking
towards the men who were in quest of
news for THE TRIBUNE.
“Oh no,” said the speaker, edging away.
“It’s just a joke.” -
“Well, don’t joke about such things,”
growled the murderer.
That same evening Blixt was taken into
custody and put through the sweating
process. He stubbornly and quietly denied
any knowledge of the affair. Later, shortly
after midnight, he was formally arrested,
being aware at the same time that his wife
poured out in a torrent
was in custody. He was locked up in a
cell at the central station, but he still re-
fused to give any information.
Who can tell what were his thoughts?
Harrassed by new fears, visions of a
scaffold, fears for his wife, all pressed
upon him. All through that night, all
through Saturday, through Saturday night.
these fears haunted him, until his mind
nearly gave way. Like his race, he was
prone to religious fanatacism. It was not
a religion of love, but one of fear, terror
for that punishment that is to come in the
future, and some remembrance of his early
Christian education came back to him.
He remembered indistinctly that promise
made by the Savior of men that all those
who repented would be saved. He remen-
bered the last words of his patient wife:
“Tell the truth, Blixt, tell the truth.”
He sent for the mayor and chief of police
and stated that he wanted to make a con-
fession. He was a changed man. He sat
on the side of the bunk and his body rocked
from side to side. He was suffering the
mental torments of the damned. They
came, and brought a stenographer to take
down his words. They were startled when
he spoke. Before the tragedy he had a
deep voice. Now it was keyed to a pitch
like that of a weak woman, and at almost
every word there was a sighing groan. His
face was of a yellow pallor, his eyes were
bloodshot.
“Well, Blixt,” said the mayor, “you say
you want to make a clean breast of it.”
“Yes,” moaned the man, “a clean breast
of it, that's what I want. You see, it
makes me cry to think that they have made
it up to make me a murderer and to have
me to hang.”
Then, in that jail cage, with the two mu-
nicipal officers and the stenographer tak-
ing down the words, came the first confes-
sion. At times the prisoner would break
down and nothing but his heavy breathing
broke tºſe stillness. Word by word the pen
of the stenographer scratched out the cruel
record upon the paper, telling in phonetic
language the story of a crime. The mur-
derer was broken down, and word by word
he relieved his brain of the horrible strain
upon it.
He begun with his early life, and went
over the category of all the crimes he had
perpetrated for his employer; crimes which
led up to the murder, and never faltered.
His spirit was broken, and the fear he felt
for the punishment to come in the here-
after opened his lips and his guilty soul
of words the
secrets that were known only to him and
the plotter, the conspirator—Harry Hay-
ward.
Gradually, however, as his story went
along, prompted at times by the officials,
with admonitions to tell it all, the fear for
the punishment in the other world was
supplanted and put in the background by
a more present fear—the terror for the
punishment in this. Men were hung for
murder. About his head would be placed
the black cap, around his neck would be
flung the fatal noose, under his feet would
tremble that well-balanced trap, and he
would be hurled into the beyond.
He shuddered, and the yellow pallor
deepened upon his face. He had reached the
point in his story where Harry was to
come to him the second time on the night




































THE HISTORY OF THE GING
MURDER. 39
of ridec. 3. His voice became husky, and
he stopped short.
“Go on, Blixt,” said the mayor. “You
know you are to make a clean breast of
it.”
“Yes, I know that,” he replied, but he
could not speak. His hearers waited pa -
tiently, Suddenly his face brightened. He
saw his way clear. Why should he hang,
when he could show that the murder was
committed by Harry, and he was only an
accomplice after the fact. He remembered
that plan of Harry's when he was intend-
ing to do the deed, and Blixt was only to
wait for the body. He cleared his throat,
and the pen of the stenographer was poised
over the paper. -
“Yes, I must tell it all,” he said. “I’ve
got to, you know.”
Then he introduced Harry's plan into the
narrative, and told how he had gone out
on a car, and waited until Harry brought
him the body. From that time on he went
back to the truth again. He remembered
Harry's words, “Don’t leave her until I
have plenty of time to get back. Be sure
that she is dead.” He used them in his
story as having actually taken place, and
there he gained his reputation as a fabri-
cator. He was not, however. That brain
was not prolific in invention. Like a parrot
he was only repeating the story told him
by Harry.
The story was told, the secret was a
secret no longer.
Then it was proposed that the party drive
over the scenes of the crime, and locate
every detail. A carriage was called, and
they were driven over the route. He
showed the spot where he had said that
Harry had brought him the body, just the
other side of the street car track, near
where it was found. Then he told how he
had driven out a mile further, and he
drove with the party to the woods, and
showed them where he turned around, then
where he drove back and threw out the
body. From there the track of the buggy
was traced to where Blixt left it, and they
all drove back to the lock up.
When the officers were alone together,
and the time was compared as given by
Blixt, it was found that it was impossible
that Harry could have been at the point
designated when Blixt said that he took
the body. Blixt said it was about 7:15
o'clock when Harry brought it to him.
It was impossible that such could be the
case, as Harry was at the theater. Yet
Blixt might have been mistaken in the
time. The officers consulted together vol-
ubly, and detectives were sent broadcast
to look for corroborative evidence in re-
gard to Blixt's story. The authorities did
not rest a moment. All was activity. The
public was fuming, boiling, excitement was
at fever heat. The whole city was in a
turmoil.
Blixt, left alone in his cell, had another
relapse. He had lied, and as visions of the
future torments came before his supersti-
tious mind, the present horror, the terror
of the hangman, sank into insignificance
again. He tried to throw off the hideous
feeling that was creeping over him, but
the icy hand of fear was upon his throat,
and he choked for breath. In vain he
struggled against the voice within him,
strove against the fear of an outraged God.
The cold sweat stood out upon his fore-
head; it oozed from every pore. He could
not rest; a pain was dragging at his
breast. He saw the face of that poor dead
woman before him, seemed to see the
avenging sword above his head, the ex-
pectant leer of a thousand fiends, waiting
to cast him into the actual hell of fire and
brimstone. He tried to cry out, but his
tongue clove to the roof of his mouth.
In desperation, he called for the jailor,
and in broken accents, brought him to the
cage door.
“Send for the chief—-send for him.”
cried. “I want to see the chief.”
“What's the matter? Are you sick?'"
asked the jailor.
“No, no, I want to tell them something,”
said Blixt, in his weak, piping voice. “I
want to tell them something.”
The officials were sent for, and they lost
no time in coming. Blixt told them that
he had not told them the whole truth.
“I thought not,” said the mayor, “send
for Mr. Hitchcock.”
‘‘I think we had better drive over the
ground again first,” said Chief Vernon
Smith.
His suggestion was adopted. George
Hitchcock, the stenographer, was sent for,
and the party again took the hack and drove
over the scene. This time the murderer
told the whole story, and admitted killing
the woman himself. He went with them to
where he had taken the buggy with Miss
Ging, drove from there over the same
ground, showed where he had shot her,
where he had turned around, where he
threw her from the buggy as before. Then
he took them to the flats, showed them
where he had changed the cartridges in
the revolver, and then they came to the
lockup.
George Hitchcock was in waiting, and
he took down the second statement, which
was the true story of the terrible crime
that had puzzled a city for nearly a week.
Then he was left to the solitude of his
prison, and action was begun elsewhere.
The whole plot was laid bare, the story
of the murder was told, and in a few
hours, on Monday morning, the great heart
of the world, the great mover of mankind,
the press, had sent the news through its
arteries to the civilized world, that won-
dered at the new offering to Moloch.
he
FASTENING THE NooSE.
Among the histories of criminal cases
throughout the known world, the Ging
murder and the events connected with it,
rank as among the most startling and
sensational.
From the time that dead woman was
found weltering in her own blood on that
lonely road, the public was in a fever of
excitement. By intuition the public press
knew that something wonderful in the an-
nals of crime had happened, and it was
treated as the most startling mystery of
a century. Every link, every clue was
sought for, and printed. THE MINNEA-
POLIS TRIBUNE came to the front from
the start, and seemed to have full swing
on the facts as they came to light. Its
force never slept, and day after day its
several issues were snatched up with avid-
ity by the reading public.
The reports of THE TRIBUNE in con-
40 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
densed form were flashed over the wires,
and soon the orders began to come in for
papers in all the principal cities of the
country. Early in the days of the tragedy,
it was kept on file in the rotundas of hun-
dreds of hotels, chiefly in the South, and
through that section of the country it was
no uncommon thing to see a crowd of men
gathered about one of its files, while one
of the number read its accounts aloud to
the gaping crowd about. Day after day
the reports were read, and they made one
continued story of the most sensational
kind, a story almost beyond belief.
The bare killing of a woman, in a burst
of temper, even a premeditated killing,
would not have aroused so much comment,
but the mystery surrounding it at first, the
colossal scheme that came later, seemed
almost past belief. People took sides, but
those who believed in Hayward's innocence
were in the minority. Discussions and the-
ories were heard on every side, and every-
where, in the parlor, at the club, in the
barber shops, in the saloons, in the thea-
ters, at church, everywhere the murder
was discussed almost to the exclusion of
everything else.
Soon afterward Mr. Chamberlain, father-
in-law to Adry, called at police headquar-
ters, and was also given permission to see
the brothers. These are the only visitors
the imprisoned men received.
A short time before 11 o’clock the broth-
ers were arraigned in the municipal court
on the charge of murder in the first de-
ºree.
Although this irregular hour had been
chosen and the time falsely given out as 2
p. m. for the purpose of throwing the gap-
ing sensation-seeking crowd off the track,
the court room was uncomfortably full.
The young men were brought in through
the door leading directly into the lockup in
charge of Officers Burke and Burns, and
stood waiting expectantly in the bull pen.
They were represented by Attorney W. E.
Hale, and Assistant County Attorney Hall
appeared for the state.
Harry was first arraigned, and he showed
some signs of nervousness while the com-
plaint was being read. He stood with
downcast eyes and bowed head and turned
his hat nervously in his hand, but other-
wise showed no signs of uneasiness.
When Adry's turn came he stood boldly
forward with head erect and eyes intently
fixed on the crowd and did not mover a
muscle.
The prisoners, meanwhile, were well
aware of the excitement. There were some
talks of lynching, but they did not as-
sume definite shape, as the law was work-
ing speedily, and every sensible person was
willing to leave the matter in the hands
of the able officials for the city and state.
Theories were indulged in without number,
and all were given place in different minds,
but in the meantime the police and county
authorities were active, and were turning
every stone beneath which there might be
a hidden clue.
Harry and Adry spent a very quiet night
in the lockup. They stretched themselves
- out upon their bunks, and to all appear-
- ances essayed to sleep. There was no op-
portunity for the brothers to communicate
with each other, as Harry was upon the
- upper and Adry on the ground floor.
|
--
Harry was perhaps better provided for
than his older brother. Hayward,
knowing of Harry's arrest, took him a
quantity of bedding, with which to make
himself comfortable. Adry was not thus
provided for.
Attorney Hale and W. W. Hayward called
on Chief Smith and secured permission to
visit both the boys, and the chief accom-
panied them to the Central Station.
Attorney Hale stated that the defense
was ready for immediate examination and
desired to have the case heard at once.
To this Attorney Hall objected forcibly,
stating that the grand jury was in session
and he wanted at least a week's time to
lay the case before that body. In view of
this fact, the court set the case for Thurs-
day, Dec, 13, at 9 a. m.
Immediately after the arraignment the
two prisoners were escorted to the South
Side patrol wagon, which whirled them to
the county jail. Here they were treated
the same as other prisoners, the jailors sat-
isfying themselves that they carried no
weapons about them. The officers handed
over the two committants, which simply
held them in custody until examination,
and the brothers were taken through the
thick stone opening with its heavy iron
door to the cage room. Here there was a
short wait in the watcher's cage, a half
circular steel barred apartment projecting
into the cell room, until the key was fitted
to the lock, and then they passed through,
and the heavy steel door clanged to after
them.
The prisoners were taken up the steel
stairways to the third tier of cages, there
being no other prisoners on that floor.
They were given the freedom of the barred
corridor of the tier until the evening hour,
when they were locked in separate cages.
Not a word was spoken in the jail office,
the prisoners remaining quiet on the advice
of their attorney.
That night the two Haywards, Harry
and Adry, were locked up together in the
county jail. They were cool and apparently
not the least fearful for the result. Of the
two, Harry was the most calm. They had
every issue of the newspapers brought to
them and read with avidity every phase of
the investigation. Finally a paper reached
them which stated that the detectives had
been questioning the engineer of the Ozark
flats.
“They are pressing Blixt pretty close,”
said Adry. “Do you think he will stick?”
“I am not afraid of him,” said Harry.
“I am more afraid of you.”
“You needn't fear for me,” was the re-
ply. “I am cinched already.”
Harry looked at his brother fixedly.
There was something peculiar in the ex-
pression. He must mean that Harry had
him cinched, and that his tongue was tied.
“Aren't you afraid of yourself?” asked
Adry.
Harry laughed. He held out his strong
arm and looked at it. Not a muscle trem-
bled. The nerves were of steel.
“Not in a hundred years,” he said.
The hours dragged away, and Supper
was served. Adry could not eat, but Harry
partook of a hearty repast. Nothing could
effect his appetite. -
At 7:30 the father and mother made a call
upon the two prisoners. They were admit-
ted, but a deputy stood by when the inter-


THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 41
view was held. Those who expected a
scene were disappointed. The mother was
as cool as her younger son, and the meet-
ing appeared more like a society call. This
family appeared to be devoid of feeling.
The interview was a short one. W. W.
Hayward, his limbs shaking from the ef-
fects of paralysis, chatted for a few mo-
ments, chiefly upon matters relative to his
business. There was no tender conversa-
tion with the mother. Little was said
about the charge.
“Tell them the truth, Harry,” said his
mother, just as she was leaving the cage.
“Tell them all you know.”
“That's what I intend to do, mother,”
was the reply.
Nothing was said to Adry. He was not
in the good graces of his parents; was,
in fact, under a cloud with them.
The mother left with the father. She had
not smiled nor wept during the entire inter-
view. Her face never changed in its ex-
pression. Later, during the trial, it bore
the same cold, hard set expression through-
out. She was an enigma. She was so cold
that the story gained credence that she
was not the mother of the boys, but a
stepmother, a story without foundation. It
was her way, a heritage she translated to
her son Harry.
Shortly afterwards, W. E. Hale and John
Day Smith, the attorneys, engaged for
Harry Hayward by his father, visited him.
They had not troubled themselves about
Adry, and they did not know that he had
consulted with L. M. Stewart, or that he
had made a statement telling what he
knew. The authorities were keeping that
quiet. Harry protested his innocence to
his attorney. In fact there was hardly a
supposition that he was guilty in that in-
terview. It was taken as a matter of
course that he had no hand in the crime.
The attorneys left him, and later James
H. Ege called Adry out, and conducted him
to St. Paul, a city 10 miles away, where he
was placed under the care of Sheriff
Chapel, of Ramsey county. He feared
trouble in the event of great public excite-
ment, such as was brewing, and he thought
it best to be on the safe side.
Harry passed the night in the jail, and
the following Saturday morning. He re-
ceived another visit from his attorney, and
his father came in to see if he needed any-
thing to make him comfortable. He would
not spare expense to have his favorite son
rest easily in his confinement. In the af-
ternoon Sheriff Ege quietly drove up to
the jail in a closed carriage, and Harry was
placed therein, without being seen by any-
one, and with his prisoner and one deputy
drove the whole distance to St. Paul. His
prisoner was affable on the way, chatted
gally, and was pleasant company.
He had a fund of funny stories, and he
retailed them and laughed with his hearers.
He was only overshadowed by a passing
cloud, the shower would soon be over and
then he would be free, and have money
again with which to back his cards at the
faro layout. It was uncomfortable, but
then $10,000 was worth a little trouble. The
murder never bothered him, it was only his
personal inconvenience that he counted as
the cost of his small fortune.
“It was like finding money,” he had told
Adry, and he had voiced his sentinents.
In the world where was his parallel? A
human life counted as nothing in his race
for gold, but a trifle of inconvenience, a
sleepless night, poor prison fare was a
hard thing to bear, and he was winning
his money rather hard for him. -
“I’ll have you all at a wine supper next
week,” he said to the sheriff. “You have
treated me white, and I won't forget it.”
Harry was placed in a cage apart from
Adry in the Ramsey county jail. There
they were kept until the authorities should
require them again, until, as Harry
thought, he would be released. Had he not
laid his plans well? Had he not so fixed
a defense beforehand that not the keenest
detective in the world could trace the crime
to him? Deluded man He had yet to
learn that companions are dangerous
things in crime, and that Blixt was to be
the Sampson to pull his proud temple about
his ears.
Adry was quite talkative in his cage. He
was seen by a reporter for THE TRIBUNE
while there, and was a pleasant compan-
ion. He talked freely of the plot, and gave
it as his opinion that Harry possessed a
hypnotic influence over many people. He
was quite certain that he must have done
so with Blixt to have so readily bent him
to his will. From what Harry had told
him of the way he had Miss Ging under
his control, he was of the opinion that he
must have possessed that influence over
her also.
“Although,” said Adry, “Harry once re-
marked to me that when a woman 30 years
of age fell in love with a young man, she
would do anything for him that he wanted
her to do.
On Monday, Blixt was allowed to see his
wife in the lockup. He had been gnawed
by terror and fear of what was in store for
him, and it was feared that he would go
Crazy under the strain. The scene was an
affecting one, for Blixt had an affection
for his wife. The meeting did him good,
and he was quieter after it. The poor lit-
tle woman had still counseled her hus-
band to stick to the truth if he died for it.
She brought him a Bible, and after she left
him it was his constant companion.
The same day the grand jury took up
the case in the afternoon, with the evi-
dence at hand. It continued throughout the
day, and the excitement among the wait-
ing thousands was still at fever heat. Ev-
ery move in the trial was watched with
eagerness. That night it was decided by
the authorities that Adry should be allowed
to go before the grand jury and testify.
The grand jury began work again Tues-
day morning in the rooms at Labor Temple.
The grand inquisition was eager to hear
the whole story, and while in the face of
the confession of the murderer of Cath-
erine Ging and indictment was simply an
informal affair and could be brought with
an hour's examination, it looked as if fully
a week would be consumed in satisfying
the curiosity of the members of the jury.
Goosman, the livery man, was the first
witness called, and he told his story at
great length.
Young Goosman was the first witness
of the day, and after he was examined at
great length, G. W. Goosman, the livery-
man, was summoned. He drove up at
the side of the court house with the fa-
mous buckskin horse, hitched to a Concord
buggy with yellow running gear. He re-


42 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
marked as he alighted, and threw a red
blanket over the animal, that it was the
horse he always drove himself, and was
a knowing animal. He was not long be-
fore the jury, and then shortly before
noon, Mayor Eustis was ushered in be-
fore the august body, and in a few mom-
ents the clear tones of his voice were
heard through the glass doors, reciting the
story.
The mayor was full of words and was
not half through with his story when the
recess was taken. In the afternoon he
took up the thread of his narrative again,
and talked to the jury until quite late in
the afternoon.
After Mayor Eustis had concluded his
testimony before the grand jury there was
a surprise furnished.
Sheriff Ege came up the wide stairs in
company with a thick set, muscular man,
with a heavy blonde mustache, and appar-
ently quiet disposition. No one would sup-
pose the man was under arrest, yet the
sheriff had him in charge, and he was pres-
ent prepared to give his testimony before
the grand jury. He was easily recognized
from the cuts of his photograph appearing
in THE TRIBUNE.
He was clad in a stylish suit of dark
cloth over which a light weight dark over-
coat hung unbuttoned. His not over
large feet were encased in almost new
patent leather shoes, with small pointed
toes. The man was Adry Hayward.
The face was a study. It was large and
full, with a tendency to flesh about the
jaws. The head above the eyes appeared
all too small for the almost massive face
and the light eyes were almost closed by
the heavy swell of flesh beneath them.
He bore up well, but as he was seated by
the side of the sheriff it was seen that he
crossed one leg over the other, and then
reversed the position, as if he was ner-
vous. Every time there was a noise at the
grand jury door he breathed hard, showing
that he dreaded the moment when he
should be summoned to tell his tale. He
sat and pared his nails to calm himself,
while he waited for the summons to come.
This new state of things indicated that
Adry was to go free, for if it was not so,
he could not be summoned before the
grand jury.
“We have made him no promise,” said
Sheriff Ege, but nevertheless promises were
not necessary, for the statute provides that
a grand jury cannot indict a man who has
been before it.
At precisely 3:15 o'clock Adry was called
in to give his evidence. He arose with a
catching of the breath, and buttoned the
upper button of his overcoat before turn-
ing to go before the inquisition. He was
nervous beyond a doubt. Slowly he walked
down the hall, and then there was a clang
of the glass doors behind him as he en-
tered the room to tell his story.
It was 4:30 o'clock before Adry finished
his story before the jury, and Sheriff
Ege took him in charge and conducted
him to the office in the court house, where
a crowd gathered outside the door to look
at him. Later he was taken to St. Paul
again by the sheriff.
County Attorney Nye was taken to task
by some of the people about the corridors
for having Adry testify, and thus placing
| it out of the power of the jury to indict
him. They thought the county attorney
should have waited until he was certain
Adry had nothing to do with it, and was
not lying.
“I wanted some of these people on rec-
ord,” he said, in explanation. “If we
want him later, the next gand jury can
indict him.”
That same night the indictments were
returned. Harry T. Hayward, the child of
the parlors, the child of broadcloth and
diamonds, and Claus A. Blixt, the child
of the basement, the child of the oil and
the soot, were both indicted, charged with
murder in the first degree, by a jury of
their grand peers.
The same day an important move was
made in Harry's case. His father made -
arrangements for securing the great crimi-
nal attorney, W. W. Erwin, to take his
son’s case. Matters were looking serious in -
spite of Harry's composure, when such a
move had to be made. Erwin was expens-
ive, and it was said that he refused to
take the case unless his fee was made
$10,000. He was engaged, however, and be-
gan to study up the case. Wednesday
Harry sent for W. E. Hale, his attorney,
and had a long consultation with him.
What it was could not be learned, but Mr.
Hale dropped out of the case afterward.
Not a word was heard from Adry, who
seemed to take his confinement easily and
without complaint.
Thursday morning Blixt asked to have a
minister visit him and he was furnished
with one at his request. Rev. Skogsberg,
pastor of the Swedish Tabernacle, visited
him in his cage and passed some time in
spiritual communication. Blixt also ar-
ranged to have the divine communicate
with his relatives at Cannon Falls. To
him he repeated the story of the murder.
In fact, he seized every opportunity he
could to tell it over again, for it seemed to
relieve his mind.
The same day P. H. Ging, a cousin of the
murdered woman, returned from Syracuse,
whence he had gone with the body. He
brought with him a photograph of Julia.
Ging, her twin sister, which looked almost
exactly like the photographs of the mur-
dered woman. There were the same firm
features, the same since're mouth and
earnest eyes.
All this time the gossips were charging
countless crimes to Hayward, and public
excitement was being fermented. Every
mysterious murder was laid to his credit.
He had killed Lena Olsen, he had mur-
dered Ed Hatcher, he had drowned women
and murdered men. There was no actual
foundation laid for any of the stories, al-
though for a time they gained credence.
There were stories of a plot to lynch him,
but it did not materialize.
At about this time Ignatius Donnelly
came out with an editorial in his paper,
advising that Harry be hung at once, and
if he was acquitted that the public had
better turn to and hang his attorneys.
The public did not respond to the scheme.
Friday morning, Blixt was brought from
the lockup in a carriage by Sheriff Ege.
and a deputy sheriff, for the purpose of
arraignment upon the charge. It was
shortly after noon when they arrived. It
had been timed so, for there was a crowd
in waiting all the morning—in fact the
court room had been haunted by people










































THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 43
ever since the indictments were returned,
ºn hopes of getting a sight of some of the
celebrities.
Court had adjourned until 2 o'clock and
some 200 people, who were camping out to
be sure to see the prisoners when they went
before the bar of justice, filed out of the
room. The crowd had not been gone out
10 minutes when a hack drove up to the
front door of Labor Temple, and a proces-
sion came up to the criminal court room.
It entered the room, Sheriff Ege walking
by the side of a short, heavy set man, with
a drooping mustache and two weeks' growth
of beard. The fleshy face was yellow and
the forehead wrinkled, and the light eyes
moved restly beneath the light brows.
It was Blixt, who had been brought up to
plead. The assassin was dressed in a very
dark gray sack suit of clothes, with a white
shirt and turned down collar and a four-
in-hand tie in fine black and white stripes.
In his hands he carried a medium sized gilt
edged Bible, one of the fingers of the right
hand being inserted between the leaves
about its center, at a point where he had
been reading. Following him was Otto
Langum, and still farther behind two police
officers. -
Assistant County Attorney Hall stepped
forward and shook hands with the prisoner
as he seated himself, and then after a
whispered conversation between Sheriff
Ege and the prisoner he was called up to
the bar to plead.
Deputy Clerk Royce read the indictment,
which had been made out in the name of
“Charles”. Blixt. The prisoner corrected
it by saying that his true name was Claus
Alfred Blixt, and Judge Hicks ordered the
correction. The indictment charged mur-
der in the first degree for having on the 3d
day of December by use of an instrument
commonly called a pistol, which was then
and there loaded with gunpowder and lead-
en bullets, inflicted a mortal wound upon
the body of Catherine Ging, from which
she then and there died, by discharging
the pistol against her, with a premeditated
design to effect the death of said Catherine
Gins, without authority of law, wilfully,
wrongfully, knowingly and feloniously, etc.
While the clerk was reading the indict-
ment it was painful to view the actions of
the prisoner. His brow contracted, the eyes
moved restlessly from point to point at his
feet, his body swayed from side to side,
and at every breath a low moan escaped
from him, as if he was in mortal agony.
So great was the strain as the instrument
º the crime, that great beads of per-
spiration came out on the 110
wrinkled forehead. yellow and
"Are you guilty or not guilty?” asked
the clerk.
The prisoner turned an inquirin lan
at the sheriff, who stood by º .* . .
he was too weak minded to know what he
should do.
"This is a very strange charge,” ventured
Judge Hicks, “and it is necessary that you
have legal advice. Have you a lawyer?”
"No, sir,” said Blixt, in a voice which
* º be heard, and which whined
l S owner was in pain. -
º at the sheriff. D. Again he
"Have you any money to empl -
yer?" asked the court. y ploy a law
Yes, sir,” came the low reply. “My
father will see to that for me.” -
sheriff Ege explained that the minister
had written to Blixt's father and an all-
swer was expected soon.
To what point was it written?” asked
the court. -
“To Cannon Falls,” replied the sheriff.
“Yes—yes-" said Blixt, and again his
eyes turned for help to the sheriff.
with the consent of the county attoº:
ney, therefore,” said the court, “we will
remand the prisoner and give him until
Monday to plead.” -
Blixt was escorted from the room, in
which there were few listeners to the arº
raignment, and taken to the carriage, which
was driven down town. He was not in
irons any of the time.
The drive down town, however, was only
a blind to throw the few loungers off the
trail, for the carriage returned to the jail
by the Fifth street drive and Blixt was
taken to the upper tier of cages, formerly
occupied by the Hayward brothers. He
had the whole tier to himself and a deputy
to keep him company. -
The quiet of the Sabbath descended OYºr
the earth, and the bells calling to worship
pealed in the ears of those confined men,
one of them probably to go free, the oth-
ers probably never to know liberty again.
Blixt in his cell in the county jail heard
them, and he opened his Bible and read
from it passages to soothe his troubled
soul. The gallows outlined themselves
before him, the noose spread its terrible
circle. In his mind there was no escape.
and he could only turn to the future life.
and fill his mind with what was in store
there, fitting him for death in this world,
fitting him to give up that life he had so
basely used, with thoughts of happiness
in the future. -
How different the reflections of Hayward.
Ten miles away in St. Paul, he passed the
long hours, yawning from ennui, wishing
the hours would speed that all might be
over, and he be freed from his trouble.
There was not one word of compassion, not
one word of sorrow for the taking away of
a young life, nor had there been from his
lips. While the murderers passed away the
hours, in solemn tones before crowded con-
gregations, in places of worship, came
words from emient divines, appealing to
the hearts of the public.
Not the least of these were spoken by
Father Keane, at the Church of the Im-
maculate Conception, from where the body
had been borne to the train which carried
it far away to the East. Tender words they
were, extolling the virtues of that unfortu-
nate woman. “The Lessons of a Crime”
was the subject chosen, and he spoke feel-
ingly of the murdered girl’s character and
vigorously arraigned those who had tar-
nished her fair name after death. In part,
he said:
“The details of that crime we all know.
We are trying hard to forget them. That
crime, though an individual one, stands
uncoped and uncommon in a community.
A young woman, exceedingly beautiful,
successful in business life, successful in
protecting her fair name, is foully mur-
dered. Where are the lessons? The fallacy
of fame is one. Fame, it is chaff and not
worthy of consideration and not worth the
effort to attain it. Ambition, it is a mock-
ery. The desire for wealth is one cause for
the crime; and now view the result. The
-
-









44 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
need of a love and an attachment for home
is another lesson. Is all of life for the bus-
iness of the world—the competition of
trade? I interpose now no reflection on the
departed or criticism on the living. The de-
sire of notoriety displayed by some men,
even in public capacities, is surprising. It
is licensed by public opinion and encour-
aged by all who listened to the slanders
that invade the sanctity of home. Some
seek newspaper notoriety and insinuate
basely of the purity of the dead and at-
tempt to blacken the fair name of the mur-
dered girl. A coward would only do this;
but, alas, it seems to be a national habit.
Why are not they as conspicuous in her fa-
vor, instead of insinuating suspicions
against her? Who can undo the injuries
done? No one is under obligation to pro-
tect the fair name of the dead. This is all
largely indorsed by the habits of the time
and because the Christian principle of
charity does not prevail, and the displeas-
ure of God Almighty is not feared. Let us
apply ourselves that we may hold careful-
ly, reverently, and thoughtfully revere the
memory of the departed. Let it find its
way into the construction of the mind.
If a little child is taught that the law
may be habitually violated, what is the re-
sult? Respectability is violated and justice
is assailed. The modern school of philos-
ophy is responsible for much of this. Cling
to the principles of Jesus Nazarene, that
you may be transported into the sacredness
of the truth, the sanctity of the pure and
the blessedness of the forgiven.”
In other pulpits, lessons were drawn from
the great tragedy, and the whole world
was wrought up over the event, one that
was unsurpassed in criminal annals, for
cold, speculative, uncalled for brutality.
After Blixt's arraignment, Judge Henry
G. Hicks put on his thinking cap. The
judge was a stern man on the bench, a be-
liever in the dignity of the court on all oc-
casions, and he ruled with an iron hand in
his court room, but in private life was the
staunchest friend, the best companion, the
largest-hearted gentleman at the bar. With
his fine sense of justice, he could not let a
prisoner march unattended to the gallows.
It was a serious matter for a man to
plead guilty to a crime for which there
was no escape from capital punishment,
unless there were extenuating circum-
stances sufficient to enable the judge to ask
the governor for a life sentence. Blixt
might be the blackest of all criminals, yet
he was an American citizen, albeit he did
come from a foreign country, and he should
have not only absolute justice, but all the
legal assistance that could be given. It was
a difficult matter to handle.
The law only allowed an attorney ap-
pointed by the court a remuneration of $10
for trying a criminal case. If Blixt's was
taken in hand it would be a difficult one,
and the attorneys who would be willing to
take the case for that sum would not give
him the best advice. The members of the
Hennepin county bar, however, were sworn
to turn no deaf ear to a client in time of
need, and if the court appointed an attor-
ney, no matter how high his station, he
was obliged to take the case even for that
small sum. Judge Hicks dipped his pen in
ink, and put down the names of W. J.
Hahn and Frank Carleton. Mr. Hahn was
once attorney-general of the state, and Mr.
Carleton was an attorney of recognized
ability. They were notified that they had
been appointed, and they obeyed. On Sat-
urday they visited the prisoner.
Blixt told his story freely, as he had
done before on the slightest provocation.
They left his cell, but in the meantime an-
other attorney had been at work. R. R.
Odell was an attorney who had practiced
at the Minnesota bar for many years to a
small practice. He had business acquaint-
ances at Cannon Falls, Blixt's home, and
there he went as fast as steam could carry
him. It was an opportunity for aggrand-
isement he could not resist. If he could
secure the case his name would be read all
over the country. He called upon a mer-
chant at Cannon Falls, the merchant went
with him to the home of Blixt's father, and
the result was that Mr. Odell was engaged
to defend Blixt, for what he could get out
of it.
The attorneys appointed by the court
were notified, and on Monday morning,
Dec. 12, nine days after the murder, Blixt.
was arraigned to plead, after a talk with
Mr. Odell, who filled his mind with hope,
and prevailed upon him to alter his plea.
For the first time the prisoner began to
believe that perhaps he might escape the
In OOSe.
At 9 the same morning the father and
brother of Blixt appeared at the jail, hav-
ing just arrived from Cannon Falls. The
father was an aged man, who bore his
years well, but appeared to be much broken
down by the trouble in which his son had
been plunged by his own desperate deed.
Blixt's brother was a powerfully built man,
fully six feet tall, and younger than the
assassin. He was much more composed
than the father, and had apparently come
to Minneapolis for the purpose of caring
for him while on his said mission in connec-
tion with his son’s disgrace.
The two were ushered into the presence
of the murderer by Jacob Wheeler, who
was present during the interview. The vis-
itors mounted the stairs to the third tier
of cells, and for a moment not a word was
spoken. Then the prisoner collapsed, bur-
ied his face in his hands and burst into
tears. The father spoke two short words
in a foreign language, and then there was
silence again, broken only by the sobs and
groans of the self-condemned criminal.
After a time Blixt calmed down some-
what, and the two conversed in their own
language, which was unintelligible to those
who were in attendance. In about half an
hour they asked for Sheriff Ege, and he
was with them only a few minutes, after
which he departed on one of his silent
missions.
In the meantime crowds had begun to
line the streets from the jail to the court
room across the street, where the prisoner
would have to pass from his cell to the bar
of justice. The hallways of Labor Temple
were packed with an eager crowd, anxious
to be presnt when the plea should be
made. When the doors were opened there
was a rush for seats, and soon the court
room was packed with a morbid crowd, in
which there was a goodly sprinkling of
Women.
Sheriff Ege at 10 o'clock appeared in the
court room with his prisoner, bringing him.
in by a rear entrance. Blixt looked less
disturbed than at his first appearance in
|










THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 45
court, and his eyes were brighter. He had
left his Bible in his case. and toyed a trifle
nervously with his cap as he watched the
immense crowd of people in the room and
awaited the coming of the judge. Mr.
Odell was engaged in close conversation
with the murderer for a short time, and
appeared on the best of terms with him.
He was much more talkative than he had
previously been. feeling evidently more cº-
fidential with the attorney selected by his
family than with the ones appointed by the
court.
Sheriff Ege supported the prisoner by one
arm, and a deputy held the other as he
approached the bar. R. R. Odell stood by
his side.
*At the request of his aged father and
his brother, his spiritual adviser and his
friends,” said Mr. Odell, “I have been en-
gaged as counsel for the defendant, and
ask to enter a plea of not guilty. We
have reached a point in the tragedy—"
*That is sufficient,” said Judge Hicks.
“Does he understand it?”
ºyes,” I understand,” said the prisoner.
“I wish to make a motion,” said Mr.
odell. “We have reached a point in this
tragedy where an order of court is neces-
sary, ordering the sheriff not to let any
one see the prisoner but his relatives, his
spiritual adviser and his attorney.”
*I don't think the court can make such
an order,” said Judge Hicks.
*I wish to say,” said Sheriff Ege, “that
no one else has been or will be allowed to
see him.”
*That is all that is necessary,” said Mr.
Odell.
The date for the trial was a bone of con-
tention. Odell wanted it Jan. 25, County
Attorney Nye wanted to try it in December
and the court was with him for a speedy
trial.
Mr. Odell cleared his throat, and looked
about in a grand way. It was the oppor-
tunity of his lifetime, and he proposed to
make the most of it. He had rehearsed a
wonderful speech, and right here was his
opportunity to deliver it. He had attempt:
ed it before, but Judge Hicks had shut him
off. He would try again, and make a
record.
“If the court please,” said Mr. Odell, a
trifle testily, “this is an important case,
and the defendant is a poor man. No mat-
ter what his condition or the feeling against
him, he is entitled to the consideration of
this court, is entitled to be heard, and have
his fate determined by a jury of his
peers—”
“Those are high-sounding words, coun-
sellor;” interrupted the court, “very high-
sounding words, and words that at this
time are unnecessary. A court of law
recognizes justice, and he will and has
received the consideration of this court.
I think you can prepare for trial by Jan.
7, however.”
“I am glad the court liked the words,”
said Odell, very angry and nettled that
his speech was nipped in the bud.
The case was set for Jan. 7, and the pris–
º was taken back to his cell in the
all.
About 3 o'clock that afternoon. Sheriff
Ege, of Hennepin county, reached the
Ramsey county jail and informed Harry
Hayward that he was due in Minneapolis.
“But say, Jim,” said Harry, “I can’t go
like this,” pointing to his face; “I want
a shave. Give a fellow a chance for his
white alley.”
He was afraid that if taken before the
court he would make a bad impression
with his whiskers, and he got the sheriff
to take the same view of it.
“You’ll behave yourself if I get you a
barber?” asked the sheriff.
“I’ll tell you what I’ll do,” said Harry.
“you get me a barber and then tie me up,
if that's what you're afraid of; but I'm
the last sucker on earth to move while
there is a barber at work on me.”
The sheriff took him at his word and
sent out for a barber, who removed the
stubby growth. When the process was over
Hayward called for his clean clothes and
dressed himself like a man who knew the
value of appearances. He had had a bath
in the morning, and when he got through
he said that now he felt like himself again.
Coming down stairs the prisoner had a talk
with the sheriff as to the best means of
going to Minneapolis.
Sheriff Ege had already made up his
mind, and he said to Harry:
*see here. You've got to behave yourself
and we won't meet any people who know
you, so we will just go along, arm in arm.”
And they went out that way. A few
steps behind them were two deputies, and
the procession had just started when Hay-
ward noticed them and remarked to the
sheriff that it was a good plan to have
those fellows along in case anything should
happen.
No one, perhaps, in the hundreds of
people whom they met knew that the party
consisted of the sheriff of Hennepin county
and the most famous, or infamous, pris-
oner in the United States.
A dry was not yet aware that his brother
had been removed. Neither of them knew
there was anything going on until the
sheriff arrived, and Adry was not told
anything then. Both the prisoners spent a
very quiet day, and Adry was getting into
a hopeless condition from the fact that he
did not receive any attention. He had an
idea, which he referred to occasionally,
that he had not been fairly dealt with,
and that he might yet be tried for his
part in the affair.
The officers took their prisoner from the
Ramsey county jail, and without irons
boarded an Interurban car to bring him to
the Hennepin county court house. All the
way over he was airy and flippant, and
showed himself good company. He joked
with his captors, and appeared in the best
of spirits. No one on the way ever sus-
pected that he was a prisoner, accused of a
capital crime. At 5 o'clock the trio were
seen coming up Eighth avenue south, and
they went direct to the Labor Temple court
room. The clerk and Judge Hicks were
sent for, and court was opened.
There was quite a crowd in attendance,
and Hayward was a show for those who
had patiently waited for his arraignment.
He appeared unmoved, and waited uncon-
cernedly for the arrival of the judge. The
prisoner was attired in a black cutaway
suit of the latest pattern. His shoes bore
an immaculate shine, and his clean-shaven
face, with its light-colored mustache, was
pink and white in complexion. He was
the airy, self-possessed man about town to
the last.





46 THE HISTORY OF THE disc, MURDER.
Sheriff Ege motioned him to the bar, and
he presented himself with an easy, swing-
ing stride. His pose was graceful, showing
all the power of his tall, well-knit form.
He looked handsome as he glanced at Clerk
Royce with a light sneer, as the official
began the reading of a long indictment
which charged him with murder in the
first degree, for aiding, abetting, counsel-
ing, commanding, procuring and hiring
Claus A. Blixt to kill Catherine Ging.
For a few moments only he paid attention;
then he turned sideways and looked at the
little crowd of attorneys. He appeared to
weary of that position, and turned the
other way, leaning his left elbow on the bar
and placing the back of his right hand on
the hip, he pulled his mustache meditative-
ly and eyed, the crowd with evident in-
terest. Never once did he quail. Once he
yawned a trifle, as if the reading of the in-
dictment filled him with ennui.
“What is your plea, guilty or not guilty?”
asked Clerk Royce.
“If the court please,” broke in W. E.
Hale, his attorney. “We would ask until
Saturday morning to plead.”
“Very well,” said the court. “If the
county attorney does not object, we will
give until Saturday morning at 10 o'clock.”
That was all. The prisoner had not said
a word. He turned from the bar and
donned his overcoat, assisted by Sheriff
Ege. Then the little party left for the jail.
The crowd rushed after him, eager to see
every movement, and he was followed until
the heavy door of the jail office closed be-
hind him.
The prisoner was lodged in a cage in the
second tier, directly below that occupied by
Blixt, his accomplice, and apparently in the
best of spirits ordered his supper sent to
him as soon as it was ready.
“I have a first-rate appetite,” he said.
*What have you on the bill of fare?”
The balance of the week was spent in
the hardest kind of work, by all parties.
W. W. Hayward, the father of the boys,
began to awaken, and he saw that some-
thing must be done. He had been very
reticent up to that time, but as soon as he
saw that his sons were in for it, he was
willing to talk, and did so at considerable
length.
“Can it be said, Mr. Hayward, that you
believe Harry innocent of the murder of
Catherine Ging merely because he is your
flesh and blood?” was asked of him one
day.
“No, sir. It is not that. I sincerely be-
lieve both my sons innocent, and will spend
all the money required to clear them. Had
Claus Blixt laid the crime at my door I
would not have been more surprised. I
did not know that Harry had loaned $7,000
to Miss Ging until I saw the statement in
the newspapers. I believe that the whole
thing is a plot to ruin Harry. He has al-
ways thought a great deal of Miss Ging,
and I cannot entertain the thought that
he ploted for her murder. He always spoke
of her as such a good business woman.
Go back to the night of the murder and
note my son's actions from that time up
to date. As soon as he heard of the mur-
der he came out with the statement that
it was a plot to get his money. He did not
attempt to conceal anything, but admitted
to the authorities his financial relations
with Miss Ging. Had he instigated the
murder he certainly would have concealed
his financial relations with her in order to
throw all suspicion from him. Then, take
into consideration his demeanor since he
has been confined in jail. Has it been that
of a man who committed an atrocious
deed? I cannot believe it. If Harry conn-
mitted the deed I will be surprised, for if
I murdered a woman and was locked up for
the crime my conscience would smite me
and I would tell everything. I am sure
that Harry, if guity, could not be as un-
concerned as he is.”
Regarding Adry's confession, the father
stated that he knew nothing of it what-
ever. In his opinion his two sons were in-
nocent of the awful crime laid at their
door. If Blixt shot Miss Ging he did not
see the motive, unless it was to ruin Harry.
He did not take much stock in Blixt's con-
fession, as he had told conflicting stories.
“There may be such a thing as forcing
a confession from a man,” he said. “When
they had my son, Adry, in the county at-
torney's office questioning him, Asisstant
County Attorney Hall accused him of fir-
ing the fatal shot. Adry said he did not
and Mr. Hall replied: “You’re a - –
liar, Adry, you know you did.” Adry knew
he didn’t though, and they could not pre-
vail upon him to say that he did. A man
like Blixt, ignorant and so easily intimi-
dated, might have been frightened into tell-
ing what he has.”
The old man meant what he had said, at
least as far as Harry was concerned, for
he went to work with a will to save him.
Money was needed, and he proceeded to
raise it. There was a mortgage on the
Ozark flats, but he had any amount of
other property. It was mostly scattered,
and could not be realized upon readily, so
the flats went. He began the negotiations
for its sale at once, and completed it before
the trial was begun. He was willing to
pour out money like water, and money was
necessary. W. Erwin and John Day
Smith were engaged, and they employed
as assistants Albert F. Sweetser, of Min-
neapolis, and Walter A. Shumaker, of St.
Paul, who had been associated with Mr.
Erwin for some time in law practice. The
prisoner was well represented in a legal
Way.
Mr. Erwin called upon his client in the
county jail, and had an extended conversa-
tion. The astute attorney saw at once that
his great fund for a defense, that great
storehouse of the mind, was trammeled,
had been weighted down by circumstances.
Harry laughed when the attorney asked
him if he was guilty. The prisoner knew,
as well as anyone, that his communication
to his attorney would be sacred, but he de-
nied his guilt. The attorney had nothing
to do but carry out his defense, for he
had already committed himself by cre-
ating the defense and outlining it.
to the officials in his statement.
All that Mr. Erwin could do was to elab-
orate upon it, and assist it upon the same
lines. It was a hard task, but he went to
work with a will, with the result that every
every possible connection with the
and a memorandum
clue,
case was looked up,
made.
Day after day the police and detectives
worked, and day after day the hirelings of
the defense worked. Once they crossed
each other's paths, and while the great







THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 47.
public was wondering what would be done,
was even charging that delay was being
had unnecessarily, the city was being
scoured day and night for evidence, and
detectives for both sides even visited other
cities where there were rumors to run
down. Frank M. Nye, the state's attorney
worked in his office in the case, looking
over statements handed in, and opening
letters from people volunteering evidence,
some of it of avail and some of it not con-
nected with the case at all. Albert H.
Hall, his assistant, hardly slept, and only
took time for his meals. He was buried,
sunk, merged into the case until he wore
a dreamy look with him all the time.
The crowd began to gather at an early
hour to be present at Labor Temple when
Harry Hayward should be arraigned, and
long before 10 o'clock Saturday the large
room was packed with people anxious to
have a sight of the now noted prisoner.
Judge Hicks was not on hand, however,
being confined to his bed with an attack of
sickness, which began Friday afternoon,
when he left the court room for his home;
therefore, the crowd was doomed to dis-
appointment, for the authorities at once
arranged to have Judge Smith take the
plea in the small court room at the court
house, where he presides.
Both prisoners rested well Friday night,
Blixt passing the best night he has had
since his arrest. At 9 o'clock a relative of
Harry Hayward broght him a change of
clothing to prepare for the public exhibi-
tion. He wanted nothing else and prepared
himself quietly for the reception which he
expected was to follow. About the jail a
small crowd of people assembled to see him
emerge from the jail. In the jail office
were several police officers, the sheriff,
some deputies and a number of special of
ficers.
In the little court room upstairs, over-
looking the jail entrance, was a silent
crowd of attorneys and people who had
discovered the change in program. John
Day Smith was the first of Hayward's at-
torneys to be on hand. He was followed
shortly after by W. E. Hale, his other at-
torney, and then W. W. Erwin wandered
in as if he was only an outsider. There
was a short consultation with Judge Smith,
between the attorneys for Hayward and
Blixt and the county attorney, and then
Hayward walked in ahead of the sheriff
like an ordinary citizen.
His attorneys motioned him to the bar,
where Clerk of Courts Dickey presided at
the books and County Attorney Nye and
his assistant, Mr. Hall, stood by the rail.
Judge Smith paused in the hearing of a
divorce case, and Mr. Nye said:
“Are you ready to plead?”
Hayward nodded.
"Are you guilty or not guilty?” asked
Clerk Dickey.
"Not guilty,” was the reply from the
quiet, muscular young man, who, with his
heavy chinchilla overcoat on and hat in
hand, leaned on the desk.
"Take your seat, Harry,” said Mr. Hale.
"We would ask that this case be set for
Feb. 21–’’
"Jan. 21,” interrupted Mr. Nye.
Mr. Hale corrected himself and admitted
that the date was the one agreed upon.
"We have all decided to set this for Jan.
21,” said Mr. Nye, “with the understand.
ing that the case surely go to trial that
date. I believe that the ends of justice will
be met by this arrangement. I do not see
how they can prepare their case much be-
fore that. It is also understood that the
Blixt's case will be set for the same date.”
Blixt's attorney nodded and the proceed-
ings were over. The Sheriff motioned to
Hayward and the deputies outside began
to clear the crowd away. People had heard
of the arraignment and began to flock to
Judge Smith's court room and the hallway
was packed. There was some little diffi-
culty in getting the crowd back, for it had
edged its way to the space between the
court house and the jail. The sheriff and
his deputies moved rapidly, however, and
Hayward was soon back in his cage in the
jail, where he held a private consultation
with his attorneys.
Across the street the crowd still waited
in the court room in the Labor Temple,
and few left the court room even when the
deputies announced that the arraignment
had already taken place in the court room
across the street.
For a month, lacking a day, the two pris-
oners were to remain in their seclusion
before there was another public act. Christ-
mas drawing near, and now Harry knew
that he would be obliged to pass the holi-
days in confinement, for it was almost cer-
tain that he was to stand trial. Almost
for the first time he realized that the affair
was a serious one. Up to that time he
had been of the opinion that he was only
being held as a piece of intimidation, and
but there was no proof against him upon
which he could be brought to trial. He
was mistaken, for the state's authorities
were collecting them daily, proof upon
proof, corroboration upon corroboration,
until the county attorney himself was al-
most staggered under what he deemed the
positive evidence. -
A few days before Christmas, R. R.
Odell, with his stenographer, Maggie
Wachtler, visited Blixt in his cell, and ar-
ranged for securing a statement from him.
a re-telling of his story as given to the
officers. For several days previous he had
called upon Blixt every day and planned
a defense. From the very depths of de-
spair he dragged the mind of the mur-
derer, and made him hope again. Strange
how the attorney made the man believe
against his convictions. Blixt had not the
least doubt but what he was morally
responsible for the murder of Catherine
Ging. In telling the truth he only thought
of relieving himself, making his peace with
God and exposing the instigator of the
crime, and he had never believed anything
else than that they would both hang to-
gether. -
The attorney showed him how he had
been duped. How he had been led; how
he had been unduly influenced by Harry.
“Don’t you see, Blixt,” he said, “how
you were made to do this? You know
you refused from the start, and would
not commit the murder for him. Even
when he came to you that Monday night
you had not agreed to it. Then he gave
you that whisky. Don't you remember
that it had a peculiar taste?”
Blixt thought a moment, smacked his
lips, and admitted that he now remen-
bered it, there had been a peculiar taste
to the liquor.













43 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIURDER.
“Of course,” cried Odell, triumphantly.
“It was drugged, don’t you see? He had
poisoned it with an exciting, stupefying
drug, that in several hours would have
killed you if a proper quantity had been
given. Don't you remember that he told
you to tie the pistol to your wrist? That
was so it would be found on you when
you dropped dead. He intended to mur-
der you. The drug made you stupid, so
that you didn’t know what you was doing.
º he helped that out with his hypno-
isn.”
“What’s that?” asked Blixt.
“That's a new science; a power a man
has over you that makes you do whatever
he wants you to, even after you are away
from him. Didn't you feel that power?”
Blixt thought a moment, and finally
came to the conclusion that he remembered
it perfectly well. Certainly, he had been
worked by hypnotism.
“Don’t you remember how Harry seemed
to want to be with you all the time?”
Blixt consulted his memory, and remem-
bered that also. The attorney was giving
him hope. He showed him how it was
possible to prove that the whisky had been
drugged, and how he was not a free agent
when he did the deed.
“Don’t you remember how you were
stupefied after the deed, and how sick you
were for days afterward?”
Blixt remembered that also. It was
wonderful that he had never thought of
it before. It was very clear to him now
that he had been a victim, and that there
was a chance that he might escape the
gallows after all. He brightened up, and
did not consult his bible as often as for-
merly. A few days later Blixt brought
a celebrated hypnotist to his cell, and that
gentleman sagely stated that Blixt was
an easy subject. He put him under the
influence at once. The defense was pro-
gressing merrily.
With Blixt's mind in this condition, the
attorney and his stenographer visited his
cell a day or two before Christmas, and
secured a long statement, one more minute
than had been given the officers. The por-
tions of it referring to other crimes than
the ones actually charged in the indict-
ment were not allowed to go to the jury
in the trial of the case, and were kept
secret by the county attorney. In the of
ficial stenographic report, which is con-
tained in Part Two of this volume, is con-
tained the portions of the statement in full
as it was given to the officials on the two
occasions. The part that has never been
made public is here shown for the first
time, and will be interesting to those who
have followed the trial, showing as it does
the school of crime into which Hayward
plunged his pupil, step by step, stage by
stage, until the proper point was reached.
It furnishes a small history of its own, a
study of human character, hard to believe,
and never paralled in the history of crime.
It exposed a character with a polished
exterior, unheard of in cruelty, almost in-
conceivable in its depths of iniquity. Could
it be possible that from human ancestors,
from apparantly genteel sources, such a
hideous thing with such a winning appear-
ance could spring?
The first crime alluded to in the following
statement, was the killing of a Chicago
man, whom he owed $400. It makes pecu-
liar reading when it is remembered that he
owed his cousin, young Goodsell, who tes-
tified for him on the stand, just that
amount, and he did go to Chicago and see
Goodsell, and pay him $100, at about the
time referred to in the statement. Blixt's
story points to a suspicion that Harry had
planned to kill his own cousin to further
some scheme of his own. The verbatim
sentences which follow are from the sten-
ographer's minutes, and give his language
word for word. The stars mark gaps which
are filled up by the statement used in the
evidence in Part Two of this volume. The
questions were put by the mayor.
Q. Will you please state the first conver-
sation you had with Harry Hayward in
reference to it?
A. The first conversation I had with him
in reference to this, that was after he had
found out that I would not go to Chi-
Cago.
Q. Tell us about the Chicago business.
A. Shall I tell you about that, too?
Q. Yes, tell us about that first.
A. Well, then, he first asked me if I
wanted to make some money, I tell him
yes, I like to make money, and he says,
“I have got a scheme that you can make
money quick.” I says, “That is all right,
what is it?” Well, he says, “I will go to
Chicago first, and when I want you I will
telegraph you come on, and I will pay the
fare for both,” and he says—just wait, I
will try and get that right. The $400 he
was to pay him, he borrowed $400 from a
man and he was to pay him back the $400
and he was to get a horse and buggy and
take him out himself and get me. I was
to be out there before and he would let
him out in some street and have me knock
him down and take the money away from
him.
Q. What about signals?
A. That was to tell me where the man
had the money. He would put up the um-
brella, like this (illustrating) that the money
was in the back pocket of the pants, or if
he did like this (illustrating) he would have
it in the vest. Well, I told him I could not
do that, so he went to Chicago himself and
came back. And then afterwards he ask-
ed me if I wanted to set fire to that barn.
I tell him I don’t want to set fire to no
barn. Well, he says, “There is no danger
at all.” Well, I said it won’t make no dif-
ference; well, he says, “I want it burned,”
he says, “and it shall burn if
shall set it afire myself.” Well, I said I
don’t see how a man could do that without
getting caught. “Well,” he says, “I know,
because I have got the experience,” he
says, “I know by experience. Now I will
show you,” he says, and went to work and
he got a bunch of fuse and about two
cartridges and took the powder in these
cartridges and put it in a paper and then
he set the fuse in there and set fire to it
and that showed the blaze when it explod-
ed, you know. I told him that I didn’t
think it was all right. Well, he says to
me, “It is all right. I will go upstairs to
my own room and will show you it is going
to be all right.” He went in his own bath
tub and done it over there and come down
and said it was all right. Well, when it
was going off, you know, it made a smoke
right through the whole flat. All the people
was aroused in the flat and come to me in
the elevator and wanted to know where
there was a fire. I told them that I didn't




THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 49
think there was any fire. I said it was
probably rags that was burning. I says to
quiet them down, you know, because I
knew what he was doing in there, and final-
ly he said nothing. He come out there and
laughed at the whole business, and then
afterward he said that he had that all
planned to do. I don't remember the day
when he was to fire it. Does that make any
difference? Well, he says just exactly 11
o'clock, “Now,” he says, “after we shut
down you go and set fire to that barn. I
will keep the officer in the hall while you
are doing it.”
Q. Keep the police officer?
A. Yes; keep the police officer in the
hall, he says, while you are doing it. He
says, “It don't amount to anything, be-
cause it won’t burn anyway. The depart-
ment will be right out, but just for the
excitement,” he says. Well, all right. I
told him. I would not do it. I says I am
scared. I don’t want to do any such thing
as that. “Well,” he says, “I will give you
$10 to do it.” I says, it don’t make any
difference; I won't do it. “Well,” he says,
“you are foolish; you don't want to make
money. They will put it out,” and so I
says, Well, I will try. I says I will try
and see if I can, and I run over there, you
know, and set a match to that fuse and I
didn't know whether it was going to go
off or not and the first thing I see was the
blaze, and the fire department, they were
there.
Q. You came right back, did you?
A. Yes; it was only across the street,
and of course they put it out; then after
that he says, “Do you know what I wanted
you to set fire to that barn for?” and I
says, “No, I can’t,” and he says, “Can't you
think?" and I says, No, I don’t understand.
He says, “Do you know,” he says, “that
I just wanted to prove what nerve you
have got,” he says, “that is all.”
- - -- -- º *
Q. Then, what did you do?
A. Then I took a street car down town.
He said before I did this, he says, “After
this is done,” he says, “I will plan for
another scheme,” he says. “I will plan for
another scheme that will beat this all to
pieces.” He had a family up East where
he was going and he said he was going to
get acquainted with that girl and have
her father and mother killed and he would
get the whole thing. He said he would fix
it—plan it some way or other after this.
º º - º + º
Q. He did? A. Yes, he did. Completely.
Some one told me that he said, what was
it? “Now look at the blue eyes,” and that
I say I could kill her.
Q. Mash her face; big “calf eyes.” That
is a blue eye; I never said that I could kill
her. No, I deny that all the time.
-- º º -k
Q. Did you ever know of Harry having
counterfeit money, or did he ever say any-
º to you about counterfeit money? A.
es.
Q: What did he say? A. He showed me
counterfeit money–Oh, I don't know if it
was; he gave me $18 once.
Q. In counterfeit money A. In counter-
feit money, and I don’t know whether he
was playing foul or not, but he gave me–
I had better start that different; he gave
me counterfeit money all right; but this
was the time he came down and showed me
the paper, and said that there was a news-
paper man that had advertised him so bad;
and my wife read the newspaper too, and
he said that he wanted to hurt that man
some way or another. He said, “I have a
detective and the detective is going to have
him into my room, and when he got him in-
to my room he is going to knock him
down, and when he knocked him down, I
shall kick eight or nine ribs out of him,”
he said; and then he went into a basket, a
waste basket where I put papers and such
things that I gather up from the flats, and
took out some ropes and tied together, and
then he says, “I am going to ring the bell,
the elevator bell, and call my attention,
next to my bedroom, in the laundry, and he
says, “If I ring that bell, will you come up
then and help me carry him out?” “No,
sir, Harry, I can’t do that; would not do
that, go up and help you carry any such
things out.” He says, “Well, I will manage
to do it myself,” he said, “but you won't
say nothing.” And he says, “Then I will
take and put him in a hack, and drive him
off somewheres and leave him” he says: “I
might kill him” he says. And then after-
wards he said, “Now I have got another
scheme how to fix that man.” That was
some days afterwards. “have got another
schemehow to fix that man” he said, and
then he had sonne counterfeit money and
he told me to take that, and he says “Hide
that away; I am afraid I will be arrested.”
And he says, “After a little I will take him
back.” So he came along down in the base-
ment some days after I had it, no before
he came along I took the money—I was
afraid of him, and said to my wife, “See
here, Hayward gave me this money to
keep, and he claims that it is counterfeit
money,” and we looked at it, both me and
my brother-in-law, and my wife and I
don’t think that it is counterfeit money; I
thought it was good money. They looked
just the same as any other money. And I
put that in some corner, in some box there,
and I had that a couple of days, and then
he toid me, he says, “You can have that
money.” Well, I don’t want it. Then I
told my wife, I says, “We don't want-any
such money” and I took the money and
went out to the furnace, and throwed that
in ; in the furnace.
Q. Were those bills new or did they
look as if they had been used? A. No,
they looked new. He said it was $18. I
don’t know what it was because I don’t
remember that; but I know they opened
them up, and they looked at them and I
don’t know whether it was counterfeit
money or not, but I guess it was; and
he said he didn't dare to have them; so
I took them up there and throwed them in
the furnace.
Q: Did you ever tell us what he said
about killing a man in New York city;
a Chinaman? A. Yes, he told me that.
He said to me, he says—that is, he tried
to encourage me—“You know that it was
nothing.” -
Q. Nothing to do what? A. To kill a
person; he said he would rather a great
deal shoot her he says, than to shoot that
dog; a good deal rather. Now he says, “I
will show you a memorandum book,” and
he took out a memorandum slip, and he
said, “I will show you what I did in New
York,” I am pretty certain it must have
been in New York; he says it is 1893, the




50
THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
23d or 24th of August or something very
close there, and he says, “If you can find
a paper for that year and that month,
then you will see what happened there”
he said. “I went in,” he said, “Into a China-
man's place, a Chinaman's shanty and we
began to play, and we didn’t have Very
much money on the table” he says, “But
this Chinaman he was doing some tricks
you know in cards; so I caught him;"
he says, “and went up and took the money;
and the Chinaman drew a stabber, and was
going to stab me, and I took a chair” he
says, “and shoved him back, and shoved
him back, and he would not go away, and
so I got him down, and run one of these
chair legs into his eye, and when I hurt
him so bad as that, I thought I had better
finish him, and I finished him up and killed
him,” he says, “and then I went back in
the shanty and took some kerosene and
throwed it on the floor, and set fire to
it and the fire started so hard that the
fire department could not pu it out, but
the whole block burned out,” he SayS,
“and two or three big firms, and the loss
through the fire insurance was $70,000” he
says, and he had that marked and showed
me the mark how much loss it was.
Q. Wasn't it in some small town 2 A.
I thought that I remembered that he
said it was a small town near New York
or somewhere, or if it was in New York;
I can’t tell. He said more; that he killed
more; he said that he killed another Iman
-no, he didn't say that he killed him,
but he had a pretty hard fight with anoth-
er man; he used to go with his sister; it
was East; I don't know where that
Was; he said that the brother got onto
him because he went with his sister, and
he got her into a room and he was doing
business with her in her bed; and he was
having there you know, and you under-
stand what I mean don't you ?
Q. He was having relations with the
other fellow's sister. A. He went in the
house.
Q: With the other man's sister? A yes,
and he do what he wanted; you understand
what; I can’t mention that; you can find
hames so that you can tell it; and the
brother got onto that and come in while
they was at it.
Q. The girl's brother? A. Yes and he
went for Harry with a knife and was going
to stab him, and then he had a chair in
the same way, and kept shoving him back,
and he was just as wild as ever; he could
not keep away from him, and she told him
to shoot him; she says, “Kill him if you.
can,” she said, and finally he could not
set away from her brother, any other
way, and then he drew his revolver and
shot him, and it took effect in the shoulder
somewhere it did`nt hurt him any WOrse,
than he took him to the nearest drug store
or doctor, I don’t know where, and had it
all healed up and fixed; because it did`nt
so to his life at all; and then he settled
with him, so that it was all quiet.
Q. Did he say where that happened? A.
No, sir, it was in the East not very long
ago; about a year or so; he told this.
Q. Did any people come up to the Ozark
on Sunday to see Hayward that you know
of? A. I can't tell how many come, be-
cause I never be up there during the day
time; I am a ways down in the base-
ment. The elevator man knows all about
it.
o Do you know of anybody that was en-
gaged in this business along with Harry?
A. No, I don't know that. -
Q. Don’t you know anything about that?
A. No, I don't know if he had a hundred
or if he had ten; but he said, when he
told me that I was in danger, then he told
me there were 20 in the gang, so that if
he was locked up, he said it was not safe
for me to go; he would be certain of it
I would be done up in five days he said.
Q. Did he say anything about who were
in the gang? A. No. He didn't mention
anybody or pointed out anybody so that I
could pick out anybody. I wish I could.
Q. Did he say what the business or the
work of the gang was 2
A. In greenbacks he said; in greenbacks.
Q. Did he ever show you any photo-
graphs? A. No.
Of any of these men in the green-
back business? A. No, he didn't show me
any photographs.
Q. Did you ever see any other counter-
feit money except this that he gave you;
this $18? A. Yes, he showed me, but I
never knew for certain if he ever showed
me any right money or not, or whether it
was wrong or anything of that kind; but
he showed me counterfeit bills.
Q. Bills that he said were counterfeit?
A. Yes, and told me—asked me if I could
tell the difference.
These portions of the statement of Blixt,
portions that were not used at the trial,
being ruled out, will go far toward convinc-
ing doubting people of the truth of Blixt's
confession. In Harry's telling of his won-
derful crimes in other cities, the thought-
ful person will only see an illustration of
what L. M. Stewart said of Harry in his
letter. He was a man of large imagina-
tion, and a colossal liar. It is evident that
Harry made up a series of lies showing
his own depraved character in order to
make Blixt believe that there was nothing
very serious in taking human life.
The newspaper man referred to was Fred
A. Briggs, who in a sensational weekly
sheet called “Town Talk,” published during
a political campaign, had printed an arti-
cle under scare headlines, showing that
Harry was a gambler, and that he was en-
gaged to marry a virtuous young woman.
The young woman was supposed to be
Mabel Bartleson, who, gossip said, had
already commenced to prepare her wedding
trousseau. The detective referred to Was
Norman King, formerly a city detective.
King told the plot to Briggs, who was on
his guard, for it seemed Harry had made
King an offer to bring him to the room
and knock him down, an offer which was
accepted only to make Harry unsuspicious,
and make it easier to catch him.
How could Blixt have known of this plot.
unless º, told him as he said? The
statement breathes truth from its every
word. It shows also another phase of the
character of Hayward, stamping him a
coward in his every vein. It will be nº-
ticed that in all his scheming he let him-
self out of any actual act of violence
where personal courage was necessº.
Not one of his plans was made in which
he did not give to some one else the task -
of committing the dangerous deeds. This














THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIURDER. 51
very phase of his character makes it im-
possible that his stories of killing men in
the East, were true. They were undoubt-
edly lies. If he was such a ready and
colossal liar, how easy it must have been
for him to lie on the witness stand.
Then Mr. Odell placed all his energies
at the disposal of the state. He agreed to
have his man tried last, and he helped all
he could to have Harry convicted. He se-
cured considerable evidence, some of which
was used in the trial. Meantime, the world
was not quieted, and with bated breath it
awaited the day of the trial.
A report gained circulation thrrough a
Minneapolis paper, through the excitable
imagination of a reporter, that Harry had
offered Sheriff Ege a bribe to furnish
poison to Blixt, and kill him off. This won-
derful story was printed without verifica-
tion, and caused some little excitement
which in the end reverted against the news-
paper. After that its reports were eyed
with suspicion, for there was not a word
of truth in the story.
Christmas day came and the sheriff pro-
vided a Christmas dinner for his prison-
ers. Blixt and Harry partook of it, but
they passed the day alone. None of their
relatives called to gladden their hearts
on the day of peace and good will. Harry
was so lonesome that he called for the
sheriff to talk with him. It was a blow to
them both to be alone that day when they
had expected to have visitors. Strange to
say, there were a few of that class of silly
women about, who make idiots of them-
selves by bringing noted criminals flowers,
or who worship at their shrine. There was
not one during the trial. There was hardly
a word of sympathy heard among the pub-
lic. The prisoners were alone and unthought
of by their friends.
The days wore away, and the prisoners
saw them pass in their cells. Adry Hay-
ward was still confined in the Ramsey
county jail. He might have been liberated,
as he had been before the grand jury, and
he could not be held, but he was willing to
be a prisoner. He was afraid of the public,
afraid that he might be questioned and
would say something that might be used
against him, and he preferred to remain
a prisoner until the trial. A deputy sheriff
from Ramsey county was with him always.
His mother made three calls upon him,
and L. M. Stewart, his attorney, called
several times. On various occasions he was
taken to Minneapolis to see his wife, who
was worrying about him, and did not be-
lieve the reports that he was satisfied to
be kept in duress. He quieted her fears,
and was taken back again.
In January a plot was discovered to
break jail, and that, too, was fastened up-
on Hayward. Tools were found secreted in
the jail, and several bolts to the cage had
been drilled out and the holes puttied with
soap. It was found that the leaders in the
plot were United States prisoners, in for
counterfeiting, and that as Harry was in
an upper tier, he could have had nothing
to do with it. It was discovered that he had
been the one to make the plot to escape
* and gradually the excitement died
out.
Jan. 15 Julia Ging arrived in Minneapolis
from Auburn, N. Y., and forthwith Joseph
T. Mannix, the secretary for Mayor Eustis,
who had gone out of the office the first of
the year, conceived a brilliant idea. Miss
Ging was almost the exact counterpart of
her sister, and the young man thought it
would be a fine scheme to arrange a dra-
matic scene, in which Hayward in his cell
might be confronted by the sister, who
should appear suddenly before him, and
that he might be thus made to weaken and
commit himself. The scheme was fixed
up and carried out, all except the portion
of the program fixed up for Hayward. His
captors did not know him yet, and it was
a complete failure.
Miss Ging, Mr. Mannix and Deputy Sher-
iff Meegarden went from the office into the
jail, and then direct to the cage occupied
by Hayward. Not a word was spoken until
the party was in the cage. Miss Ging, her
feelings wrought to a pitch of excitement
by the sight of the man accused of the
murder of her sister, looked with horror
upon the imprisoned man, her eyes fairly
blazing. She was unconsciously acting the
role assigned to her. It was an impressive
scene. The eyes of the whole party watch-
ed Hayward narrowly.
The young man kept up his reputation
for nerve. He looked coolly at the party,
allowed his eyes to rest upon the face of
the young woman, then he arose and
bowed, smiling slightly. He was not in the
least ill at ease.
“Harry,” asked Mr. Mannix,
know any of these people?”
The prisoner took a glance at the party,
and instinctively his interest was centered
on Julia Ging. “From appearances I
should say that this was Miss Julia Ging,”
he said, and asked, “Is this not Miss
Ging?”
No one answered the question, and he
said, “Well, I am glad to see you, Julia.
You resemble your sister so much. If I
were to have seen you and Kittie on the
street I could not have told you apart.
I would like to have a good long talk with
you, but of course I cannot have that
here. I am sure that although the circum-
stances make it look very bad, I know that
if I could have a long talk with you, and
tell you all I know, I could convince you
of my innocence. Do you suppose I could
go with your sister Kittie, and with every
word and move secretly plot her murder?”
To that Miss Ging replied: “Time will
tell.”
“Does Miss Ireland believe me guilty?”
was the next question.
“I am not saying a ward,” replied Miss
Ging, in a calm, dignified manner.
“I am sure,” continued Harry, “that
down in the bottom of her heart she does
not believe that I committed the crime.
It looks bad, I know, but there have been
cases where the indications of guilt were
as strong as they are in this case, and
the feeling has been entirely changed in
favor of the accused. I am sure I am
going to be declared innocent. There are
some important things about this case
which have not yet been brought out. Julia,
I would like to have several hours' talk
with you. It makes no difference whether
the jury finds me innocent or not, I do not
care to be set free unless it come in a way
where all the people will feel that I am
innocent. I would not care to be liberated
and have that freedom come on a techni-
cality, or by accident, so that people on
the street could point to me and say,
“do you





52 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
“There is the man who murdered Kittie
º but who managed to escape convic-
on.” -
Miss Ging was greatly unnerved when
she reached the jail office, under the
strain. After a short rest she departed
with her friends. The party did not visit
Blixt, fearing that he would be too much
excited, and that the sight of the twin
sister of the woman he had confessed to
killing would dethrone his reason.
The date for the great trial, Jan. 21, ar-
rived, and on the morning of the day W.
Hayward, the father of the accused
man, sold the Ozark flats for $110,000, half
of the sum being a mortgage that was as-
sumed by the purchaser, and the balance
in cash. He parted with another piece of
property for $22,000 in cash, giving him
$77,000, all of which he had said he Would
spend, if necessary, in clearing his favorite
son of the charge against him. With all
this money at hand, with the best attor-
neys and assistants money could afford,
the trial begun, blazoned forth by THE
TRIBUNE, the herald of the trial, in a
page illustrated article, containing a short
history of the murder, and the world pre-
pared to hear of it.
The morning of Jan. 21 broke cold and
clear. It was a day to be marked in legal
history, as the opening of one of the great-
est legal battles the world ever saw. Few
of those who were principals in the great
contest knew then, as they ranged them-
selves in battle array, that it would be
seven full weeks before that long battle
would be over, that the hand of disease
would deplete the ranks of attorneys and
witnesses, and even attack the jury box;
few realized, few had warning of the sen-
sational scenes that were to follow.
It was the beginning of one of the most
engrossing trials the world ever Saw, and
as day after day advanced, the interest
spread rather than waned, until a whole
world was waiting with bated breath for
the proceedings of the day before to be
spread before them in the columns of the
press. Day after day, almost every paper
in the land made leaders of the daily pro-
ceedings, and even the editorial columns
Were not proof against the insidious effect
the case seemed to have upon the public.
Day by day new developments arose. First
there was the claim that insanity would be
proved, in some way but in what Way Was
not at that time known, and the court
allowed a commission to go to Macoupin
county, Ill., for the purpose of taking dep-
ositions.
Then came the sensational scenes enacted
when the fact announced weeks before in
THE TRIBUNE, that the defense would
try to prove that Adry and Blixt did the
deed, was found to be true beyond a doubt.
Time after time the public was shocked at
the methods used for the purpose of play-
ing the life of one son against the other,
in the vain hope of saving the pet of the
family from the gallows. The spectacle of
a mother, cold and calm, a father in tears
upon the witness stand, the skeleton in the
closet of that wealthy family, their quar-
rels, their peculiar characteristics was seen
during that long trial, which presented a
varying kaleidescope of dramatic color to
those who followed the case.
On the first day of the trial, there was an
a pin drop.
immense crowd in the streets, waiting to
see the prisoner brought from the jail to
Labor Temple a half block away where the
case was to be tried. The room in the
court house was not large enough to ac-
comodate the crowd, and a temporary court
room had been fitted up in the public hall.
Here the prisoner passed and repassed, day
after day during that long trial, between
the lines of people, who on many occasions
hissed him, and cried, “Hang him, Hang
him.” To their cries the prisoner paid lit-
tle heed, keeping that calm unruffled ex-
terior that stamped him as one man alone
annong the criminals of the world.
Aside from the regular jury list, three
special panels of seventy-five jurors each
had been drawn, and from that list, day
after day, for nine days, the examination
went on before the twelve men had been
secured to try the case. Even in the selec-
tion of the jury exciting scenes were en-
acted, and matters outside of the usual
were brought to light.
At the close of the morning proceedings
on the first day of the trial there was an
unexpected and exciting occurrence , which
caused the great crowd in the court room
to rise to its feet and gaze with startled
faces upon the stern visage of Judge Sea-
grave Smith, where he occupied the bench
above the attorneys and accused.
W. W. Erwin, attorney-in-chief for the
defense, had just stated that he would
summon a witness in the afternoon to
prove that Juror Andrew Carlson had
made prejudiced statements to a man at
his house, and court was about to adjourn,
when Judge Smith was apparently startled
by the assertion of Mr. Erwin. For just
a moment he was silent, and then his face
assumed its sternest aspect, and those who
knew him knew that there was trouble
brewing. The court had become aware of
a rodentary odor—he had smelled a rat.
“I want to say right here,” said Judge
Smith, in the most forcible of tones, “that
if any of the attorneys in this case have
gone about looking up the jurors on this
panel, for the purpose of ascertaining
their opinions in this case, that it is con-
tempt of court, and that they will be
called to account for it as sure as I sit
upon this bench.”
For a momen it was quiet enough to hear
and stepped before the bar, facing the
angry judge.
“Allow me to say if the court please,”
he said, “that the defense has been to the
trouble of examining, as it had a right to,
the records of all the jurors upon this
panel, as to their habits, morals and man-
ner of life, in order—”
“You, sir, as an attorney at law, know
what I mean, and what you have a right
to do,” cried the court. “I repeat that you
have no right to inquire of jurors drawn
on a panel in order to find out how they
stand on a case. It is contempt of court,
and you know it.”
“If the court will allow me,” said Mr.
Smith, very mildly, “I wish to say that
we have a right to investigate the charac-
ter of jurors. Far be it for me to deny that
it is wrong to ascertain the opinions, and
I would be the very last man at this bar
to do such a thing.”
“Well, I want it understood that this
Then John Day Smith arose




THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 53
court will make it a point to inquire into
the nature of all questions asked these
jurors,” said the court. “You may have the
right to examine into the character of
jurors, but you have no right to visit them
personally, or have them visited. It is not
the way to find out a man's character, to
go to him personally. It is a most con-
temptible thing to do and—”
“But the court must understand,” said
Mr. Smith, “that we have done nothing of
the kind. Wei-"
ºwe will see about it later,” said the
court. The court is adjourned.”
This cut short the argument.
After court was adjourned two jurors
stated that men had called at their homes
to see them since they had been drawn. On
the jury.
“One came to my house a few days ago,”
said one juror, “and my father told him
I was in bed, which I was. He said he
would come again. My father asked him
what he wanted, and he said he wanted to
see me on politics—something that would
do me good in the future.”
The circumstance had created great ex-
citement, and as the defense had admitted
to looking up every juror that had been
summoned, there were dark hints that
some of them had been tampered with
The defense never presented the witness
they had threatened to bring in, and the
matter was never broached again. The
state's attorney was careful to examine
every juror called, to see if he had been
approached after that.
Friday of the same week, the second ex-
citement was produced all on account of
a newspaper article. The Minneapolis
Journal, which had not succeeded in keep-
ing up with THE TRIBUNE in the news
of the trial, printed an article in which it.
stated that Adry Hayward had been in-
terviewed by the counsel for the defense
upon an order issued by Judge Smith,
and that he had told a story much more
terrible in detail than he had told L. M.
Stewart, and the county authorities. The
article was written by an imaginative re-
porter, who made the attorneys for the
defense fall into their seats aghast, and
John Day Smith, a very religious gentle-
men, said “My God,” in the most frenzied
tones. -
“I would like to publicly denounce the
Journal for that article last night,” said
Mr. Erwin, Hayward's counsel, at the
opening of court, “but I feel that I have
said all that the court could feel war-
ranted in allowing. Privately, though, I
want to say that it is a lie manufactured
out of whole cloth. There is not a word of
truth in the whole article, except that we
had the interview with Adry, as THE
TRIBUNE stated. All that rot about new
and horrible details, of our fainting in
our chairs, and the ‘My God' eccentricity,
is dime novel literature, and poetic license
of the imbecile order. We pay less atten-
tion to it than we might, for the fact that
there was not a direct statement of fact
in the whole article that will prevent sen-
sible men from believing it.
“Actually it is not a safe thing for these
papers to excite the public in this case. It
is not only unjust, but dangerous in the
extreme, and if it is kept up something may
happen which even newspapers might feel
sorry for.”
John Day Smith, before the trial, came
to the reporters' table and addressed one
of the unctious Journal reporters at the
table.
“You may say for me, on my honor as
a man,” he said, “that the whole article
in the Journal referring to that interview,
except that an interview was held, and es-
pecially as to what I said to Mr. Erwin,
and what he said to me, is a lie out of
whole cloth. There is not one word in it
that is not fictitious.”
“Where is that reporter?”
Smith later.
The judge was informed that he had not
arrived.
“Is the Journal reporter here?” he said,
deep anger in his tone.
The said Journal man approached the
bench, putting a good face on the matter.
The judge handed him a paper.
“Did you write this?” he asked, pointing
to the article in the paper.
“No, sir,” said the reporter.
“Well, I want you to see that no such
articles appear in future. Do you suppose
that I want to be made to appear ridicu-
lous all over the country? I have no
authority to issue such an order.”
“Well, I am sorry,” said the reporter,
“but I have nothing to do with it.”
The woes of the Journal man were not
ended, however, for the moment the case
was continued until afternoon, Judge Smith
motioned to the author of the violet story
and Adry-Smith–Erwin romance.
“Young man, I want to see you. Come
here.”
One of the young men from the twilight
paper stopped filling a black brier pipe,
stuffed it in his pocket, adjusted the white
with blue polka dot muffler about his
neck, and wandered over to the bench,
where W. W. Erwin, John Day Smith and
County Attorney Frank M. Nye stood in
a row, facing the judge: The young man
was placed at one end of the line and tried
to look brave, although his form shook
almost audibly, and his heels beat a lively
tattoo on the cocoa matting.
“Mr. Smith,” said the judge, holding a
copy of the Wednesday night edition of the
Journal and pointing to the Adry Hayward
article, “is there any truth in what this
article says, as to what you said, or what
Was done?” -
“On my word as an officer of this court,
there is not,” said Mr. Smith, quietly.
“Mr. Erwin,” continued Judge Smith, ſix-
ing him with his stern glance, “tell me
if there is any truth in this article as
to what you said, and what occurred at
the meeting.”
“Not one word, your honor,” said Mr.
Erwin, quite seriously, and as quietly as
his conferree had spoken.
“Mr. Nye ’’ said the court, turning to
the county attorney. “Did any of these
things occur, or did any of this emanate
from you?”
“No, sir, I have given no such informa-
tion,” was the reply.
Judge Smith grew more righteously indig-
nant at every answer. When he had ceased
his interrogations he turned to the reporter,
and made him feel that court work and
court procedure was no joke, and was not
to be tampered with.
“This article is a lie out of whole cloth,
and most reprehensible in its inception and
asked Judge

54 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
completion,” he said. “The jurors who have
been excused in this case have nearly all
been let go because they had formed opin-
ions from what they had read in the news-
papers. An article like this has the effect
of prejudicing the mind of every man who
reads it, and not being true, is contempt of
court.”
“Do you say, sir, that that article is
not true?” asked the reporter faintly.
“Yes, sir, I do,” said the court.
“I would like to make an explanation. I
secured that matter from an inside source.
and one that I had a right to believe.”
“Who was it?” said the judge, in his ab-
rupt way.
“I would like to consult my superior be-
fore answering the question,” said the re-
porter.
“You will have until 2 o’clock to do so,”
said the court. “You may come with your
superior to my room before 2 o’clock.”
The gaping crowd had gathered close
about the scene, and found considerable
amusement in the misery of the reporter.
At this point the seance was at an end, and
the deputies cleared the room.
Promptly at 1:45 o'clock in the afternoon
the Journal reporter appeared at Judge
Smith's chambers in the court house, where
he was closeted for a few minutes with
Judge Smith and Assistant County Attor-
ney Hall. The conference was not long,
but it lasted long enough for Judge Smith
to give the fake artist a timely calling
down. The reporter was informed that re-
porters were admitted to courts of law in
order that they might give the public
knowledge of what actually transpired
therein, and not for the sake of giving
them an opportunity to evolve sensational
and fabulous tales. He expressed a strong
desire that during the present trial news-
paper reporters should confine themselves
to relating the procedure in court, and
that they should not publish anything
which might be prejudicial to other side
of the case.
The reporter expressed himself as duly
penitent that he had entertained a miscon-
ception of his functions, and seemed great-
ly relieved when Judge Smith forgave his
bad break with the tacit agreement that
his future conduct should be exemplary.
He breathed more freely when once outside
the chambers of the judge, though he was
still noticeably agitated as he walked rapid-
ly away.
An almost unprecedented occurrence took
place Saturday, the sixth day of the trial,
an occurrence that made the unlucky num-
ber 13 figure in the case, for on account of
the scene 133 jurors were sworn to try the
case. Ira A. Newell, the first juror sworn
on the first day, was reported by some of
his acquaintances to have scruples against
the death penalty in murder cases. The
county attorney took pains to look up
the charges, and the result was that on
Saturday he was excused. The state's at-
torney had forgotten to ask that question
in the examination, the only case where
it had been forgotten.
Mr. Nye arose at the opening and called
the attention of the court to what he
termed an inadvertence on the part of the
state in the selection of one juror.
“I do not wish to reflect in any way upon
the character or integrity of any man,”
said he. “In regard to Juror Newell, I
in court and heard
have taken the pains to secure affidavits,
and find that he has expressed a strong an-
tipathy to the death penalty. I invoke the
power of the court at this time to interpose
a challenge for implied bias.”
“I ask that the county attorney exhibit
those affidavits to the court,” said Mr. Er-
Wºln.
“It would not be proper evidence at this
time,” said the court. “The statute is very
broad in this matter. It says he shall not
be permitted or forced to serve.”
“Mr. Newell,” asked Mr. Nye, “are you
opposed to capital punishment?” -
“I have had opinions of that kind,” said
the juror, “but when I came here I was of
the opinion that I had no right to place
my opinion against the law. Understand
me, I do not wish to serve on this jury,
understand that, but when I took the oath,
I did so with the full knowledge of its
meaning and with the intent to sit on the
case, in line with my oath.”
“Have you had conscientious opinions
against the death penalty?” asked Mr.
Nye. -
“I have, against the law. If I were in
the legislature I would not vote for such
a law, but further than that I do not go.”
“I will ask you have you not said, since
you were summoned as a juror, that you
would never vote for murder in the first
degree?” -
“You will have to sumbit a challenge.”
said the court. - . .
The juror took the chair, and was ques-
tioned. He stated that he had ideas against
capital punishment, but since he had been
the examination of
jurors he had put aside that opinion. “I
thought I had no right to put my private
opinions against the law,” he said.
“Do you know Mr. Hoytº’’
“Yes, sir.”
“Did you not say to him that you would
stay out until you died before you would
bring a verdict for murder?”
“No, sir–not as strong as that.”
“Nor to Mr. Studebaker?”
“No, sir; I will swear to that.”
“Do you know Mr. C. A. Lang?”
‘‘No, sir; I can swear I do not”
“Did you say to James Ganet that
you
would be governed by the evidence, but
that if they found Hayward guilty you
would never consent?”
“I don’t remember”
“Did you not tell him that if you were
drawn you would tell the attorneys you
had scruples against the death penalty?”
“ Idon’t know, I might have said some-
thing of that kind. I know now that I
could try this case fairly. If I form such
an opinion when I take an oath, I con-
sider myself an honorable man and can
stand by it.” -
“If you had an opinion of guilt or inno-
cence, could you put it aside by an oath?’”
“No, sir. That would be a belief, but
the other is only a sympathy, which I
could divest my mind of.”
“Do you mean to say that you are not
as radical about that opinion as you were
before?”
“I do. I feel that I can put all those
sympathies aside in this case.”
“You wouldn’t say positively that you.
didn’t make those assertions to those peo-
ple?”
“No, sir, I wouldn't.”




THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
-Yet you think you can make a fair
joror in this case?”
*I certainly do.”
ºr submit the challenge.”
“Have you any conscientious scruples
against the death penalty,” asked Mr.
Smith, “which would prohibit you in this
or any other case from finding a verdict
in accordance with the evidence?”
*No, sir. I would prefer to have the law
prohibit capital punishment, yet I would
find in accordance with the law, because it
is the law.” -
“Did you have any extended conversa-
tion with L. C. Gaus?”
“I think not—only as I passed through
the shop. Those conversations went no fur-
ther than that I was oposed in principle
to capital punishment.”
"Did you ever say that you didn't put it
quite as strong as that you would 'stay
out forever" to Mr. Studebeker * said Mr.
Nye.
“I don’t think I made such a statement.”
“I ask leave to produce witnesses in the
matter.” said Mr. Nye.
I will say that Mr. Newell's opinions are
notorious. I expected the defense would
make no contest in this matter?”
“If the defense thought that he was of
that Qinion now,” said Mr. Smith, “we
would not object.”
“Well,” said the court, “if he has ever
said he would not bring in a verdict of
guilty, he is not fit to sit on this case.”
“Within a month,” said Mr. Smith, “have
you ever made such a statement?”
“I can't say that I have.”
Mr. Erwin arose and stated that the at-
torneys had agreed that no main who had
QPºlons of that kind should sit on the
Jury. The case was an important one, es-
pecially so to the defendant. There had
been so much excitement that it was best
for the defense even to waive some of its
rights in order to be patient.
| Wºn this juror was accepted,” said
ne. "Mr. Nye spoke across the table and
said to me, ‘I would trust my life to this
man,’ and I believe he would and I would.
We do not think it proper to place a pub-
lic officer in the position of being obliged
to accept a man who had formed such opin-
ions. With the same spirit of fairness
which has characterized this trial, we ad-
mit the challenge, at the same time saying
that Our confidence in the integrity of this
juror is not one whit shaken by this epi-
sode.”
"Neither is mine,” said Mr. Nye.
"I am glad to hear the state say that ".
was Mr. Erwin's reply, as Ira A. Newell
stepped down and mingled with the mul-
titude, before going to the home from
which he had been absent for five days.
The following Tuesday Mr. Erwin sprung
his trump card in open court. He was pre-
pared to show by members of the family
that Adry Hayward had strange delusions
all his life, and had been mentally un-
balanced. It was his intention to go fur-
ther ºn that direction and show that there
was insanity in the family and had been
for generations. If Harry had not already
made up his own defense, the insanity
theory would have veen used in Harry's
case, but it was too late for that, so Adry
must be the one. By its use, perhaps his
testimony could be kept out, or if allowed
in, discredited by the jury as a hallucina-
-
“This is serious.
tion. Mr. Erwin presented the following
petition:
*The petition of Harry T. Hayward, de-
fendant in the case above entiled respect-
fully shows to the court: That certain per-
sons residing outside the state of Minne-
sota, to-wit, J. F. McKenzie, residing at
Jacksonville, Morgan county, * : S. V.
Keller, of Medora, Macoupin county, Ill.,
Mrs. Mary A. Williams and Mrs. Sarah A.
Phipps, residing at Mattoon, Coles county,
Ill., and Dr. Samuel Vanmeter, residing at
Charleston, Coles county, Ill. are necessary
and material witnesses in behalf of the
said defendant on the trial of the above
entilted action, without whose testimony
he cannot proceed to trial therein, as he
is advised by his counsel and verily
lieves.
*That the facts that he expects to prove
by said witnesses are:
“By the witness, J. F. McKenzie, that he
is superintendent of the Illinois Central
Hospital for the Insane, directed and main-
tained by the state of Illinois, under the
laws thereof, and is the custodian º ".
s O.
That it appears by the recor
records.
insane that John
said hospital for the
Hedges Keller was a patient therein from
July 28, 1860, to April 16, 1861; from Jan.
27, 1863, to Nov. 14, 1863; from Dec. 8 1874,
to Sept. 29, 1879, and from Dec. 30, 1879, to
July 20, 1882, and that said John Hedges
Keller was during said period an insane
person, and further, that it a pears from
said record that July 5. 1852, George K.
van meter of Coles county, Illinois, was
admitted to said hospital and was then and
insane person, and his insanity had then
existed for eight years, and defendant ex-
pects to produce as apart of the deposition
and testimony of said J. F. McKenzie
copies of all official records of said hos:
pital for the insane relating to the said
john Hedges Keller and Geo. K. Vanmeter.
By the witnesses, S. V. Keller, Mrs.
Susan Loper, Mrs. Mary A. Williams, Mrs.
Sarah Phipps and Dr. Samuel Vanmeter,
that they and each of “em * related to
the defendant as follows: S. V. Keller
sº sº sk of defendant; Mrs. Susan Loper,
paternal grandmother of defendant; Mrs.
Mary A. Williams, Mrs. Sarah Phipps and
Dr. Samuel Vanmeter, first cousins of the
maternal grandmother of defendant.
*That Zillah Vanmeter Keller was the
maternal great-grandmother of the defend-
ant; that John Hedges Keler was maternal
grand-uncle of the defendant; that Moses
Vanmeter was uncle of the maternal great-
grandmother of defendant; that Geo. K.
van meter was first cousin of the maternal
grandmother of defendant; that said Zillah
Vanmeter Keller was in her lifetime three
times insane, once in her early married life
in Crawfordsville, Ind., second at Chester-
field, Ill., when about 48 years of age, at
which time she was insane about two
years during which time she had suicidal
tendencies and had to be closely watched,
and third at Chesterfield, Ill., when about
75 years old, at which time she endeavored
to kill her daughter, and failing in this she
committed suicide by starvation, refusing
all food.
*That said John Hedges Keller was in-
same at intervals between 1840, when he
was about 30 years of age, and his death.
in 1882. His insanity between 1860 and 1882
being of a dangerous type.
be- -








56
THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
“That said Moses vammeter became vio-
lently insane when a young man, and lived
to an advanced age, becoming sane only a
few days before his death.
“That said George K. Vanmeter became
violently insane in 1843, when a young man,
and remained so until he was lost during
the war of the Rebellion, when he wan-
dered away and was never heard of again;
that he was frequently confined in jails
and insane asylums on account of his said
insanity.
"That defendant further expects to prove
by the testimony of each of the said wit.
nesses the particulars of the conduct of
each of said insane persons, while so in-
sane, and the symptoms and manifestations
of their said insanity, of all of which par-
ticulars defendant is now ignorant and can-
not state the same more fully than as here-
in before set forth.
“That defendant is informed and believes
that each of said witnesses is now at the
place of his respective residence, and de-
fendant canot procure the testimony of
either of said witnesses other than by the
taking of their depositions.”
Then followed the assertion that the dep-
ositions could be secured without the least
delay to the trial, that they were of vital
importance to the defense, etc. Appended
was the signature of Harry T. Hayward
and following were affidavits of the at-
torneys in the case, in which they named
the proper parties in the various towns in
Illinois, before whom the depositions could
be taken.
The defense provided an attorney, and
John F. McGee was secured by the state.
Fully a week was used in the taking of the
voluminous testimony, none of which was
used, as Judge Smith would not allow it to
go in. Mr. McGee reported that the evi-
dence thus taken showed the several cases
of insanity cited in the affidavit, but that
they were mostly from accidents, and did
not in any case show hereditary insanity.
The family was prolific, and had thousands
of representatives in Macoupin county and
in adjoining places. He thought it a re-
markably well balanced family.
Before noon, of Wednesday, Jan. 30, the
last juror had been sworn, and John Wall,
deputy sheriff was sworn to take charge
of the jury, a task he fulfilled with credit
to himself, and in a mainer that won the
thanks of the jury and the respect of the
court. For nearly seven weeks he was
to be locked up with his charge and he lit-
tle knew the annoyances, that were to
Conne.
The attorneys had fought for nearly nine
days in the tedious task of examing the
jurors, and were well tired out when
the last man was sworn. Exactly 200 men
had been examined in the case, each one
being asked a long series of questions, by
both sides. When the last juror was se-
cured, neither the state nor the defense
had exhausted their peremptory challenges,
and therefore the case could not go to the
supreme court upon any point taken dur-
ing the examination of the jurors. In the
selection of a criminal jury, the state is
allowed seven peremptory challenges, and
the defense 21, and each had some to
Sºº--e.
It had been a tedious examinatoin, but
the crowd had turned out in large num-
bers, even to hear this portion of the
proceedings, showing that there would be
a jam when the actual taking of evidence
begun. The promise was fulfilled, as sub-
sequent events proved.
The jury, as sworn in to try the case,
was as representative a body of men, as
ever took a case in hand in Minnesota,
or perhaps any other place where juries
exist. They were men well advanced in
years, thoughtful, studious, and with a
full sense of the importance of their du-
ties. Considering the trials they went
through and the manner in which they
placidly encountered them, a brief sketch
of them is worthy of reproduction here.
Lindsay Webb, was born at Belleville, N.
Y., on June 9, 1850. He removed to Kala-
mazoo, Mich., 1860, and was educated at
Kalamazoo and Ann Arbor. He was prin-
cipal of the high school at Niles, Mich.,
superintendent of schools at Muskegon and
Grand Haven, Mich., and in 1876 removed
to Milwaukee, where he became principal
of the Seventh district school until 1884,
when he resigned to enter the employ of
the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance
Company. He was general agent of that
company at Minneapolis for five years. In
1891 he became general agent of the State
Mutual Life Insurance Company of Massa-
chusetts. He resigned a year or so ago
and has spent the last year in California.
He was nominated on the school board on
the Republican ticket four years ago, but
was defeated with the rest. In 1871 he
married Victoria M. Briggs, of Van Buren
county, Mich., by whom he has had four
children.
C. S. Philbrick, the second juror sworn
to try the case, lives at 814 University ave-
nue northeast. He is a full bearded, elderly
gentleman, with a family, and was formerly
in the lumber business, but has retired. He
was not questioned at great length, but
admitted that he had read about the case
more or less, and had discussed it with his
family. He was satisfactory to both sides,
however, and was, therefore, selected.
John Smith, the third juror, is a black-
smith, living at 1827 East Franklin avenue.
He was born in Switzerland 48 years ago,
and came to Minnesota, with his parents in
1852 and settled on a farm in Freeborn
county. When 18 years old he enlisted
from Fort Snelling, and was a private in
the ranks of the famous Tenth Minnesota,
Company G. He served till the close of
the war. After the war he lived in Illinois
for a few years. Later he removed to
Washington county, Minnesota, and in 1884
he came to Minneapolis, where he has
since lived. He is married and has two
children.
B. H. Timberlake, the fourth juror, is in
the life insurance business, and resides at
1015 Eighth street southeast. He is the
youngest of the 12 men, and is 33 years old.
He is a native of Indiana and came to Min-
neapolis 12 years ago. Mr. Timberlake grad-
uated from the State University in 1891
and was married shortly after to Miss
Emma Kemp, one of his classmates. They
have one child.
John M. Kimball, the fifth juror, lives on
his farm, a mile and a half from the village
of Champlin, near Anoka, his farm joining
that of Juror Pribbles. He was born in
Ohio in 1845, and came to Minnesota in 1859.
When 17 years of age he enlisted as a
private in Company D, 6th Minnesota, and
-

THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 57
served till the close of the war. Mr. Kim-
ball has served in positions of trust from
time to time, and is at present treasurer of
the district school board. He is married
and has five children, three of whom are
married, the other two being with him at
home on the farm. -
Neal McNeill, the sixth juror, is the old-
est of the 12. He was born 65 years ago on
Cape Breton, on a farm. When a young
man he was at sea more or less for sev-
eral years. He also worked at shipbuild-
ing, and helped build the ship Minnesota, in
the Washington navy yards. He came to
Minnesota in 1856 and took charge for Ly-
man C. Dayton of Dayton township, Hen-
nepin county, and remained in charge for
seven years and then relinquished it and
went on the farm near the village of Day-
ton, where he now lives. He was a private
in Company B, 9th Minnesota, and was
wounded while fighting the Indians at the
battle of Acton, and was discharged. He
afterwards went South and served in the
construction corps until the war was over.
Mr. McNeil is one of the oldest residents,
and one of the most prominent in Dayton
township. He is now serving his 28th year
as chairman of the town board of super-
visors. He has eight children, six of whom
are married. He has 25 grandchildren, and
he can visit all of his children and grand-
children in an hour, except one daughter,
who lives in Wisconsin.
Benjamin T. Dickey, the seventh juror,
resides at 328 Sixth avenue southeast. He
was born in Nova Scotia in 1847, and came
to St. Anthony when he was 20 years old,
and engaged in the saw milling business
for 10 years with Farnham & Lovejoy. He
afterwards engaged in the lumber busi-
ness for himself, and was for five years a
member of the firm of McMullin & Co. He
is married and has three children, two boys
and a girl. The oldest son is married and
is in the employ of the American Express
Company. The other two children live at
home.
Chas. A. Pribble, the eighth juror, is a
farmer, and has lived on his own farm in
the town of Champlin, a mile and a half
from the village of the same name, for
about 18 years. He was born in Brooklyn
township in 1859, and has always lived in
Hennepin county. He attended school
about six years in Minneapolis when a boy,
going four years to the Mendenhall free
school, at the corner of Fifteenth street
and Nicollet avenue. He is married, but
has no children.
John Denny, the ninth juror, is a carpen-
ter and builder, living at 4503 First avenue
south, this city. He was born in Wiscon-
sin in 1852, and, with his parents, removed
to Iowa, and subsequently to Goodhue
county, Minnesota, in 1858. In 1879 he came
to Minneapolis, since which time he has
been a resident of this city. He is married
and has three children.
Sawin H. Dyer, the 10th juror, is a native
of Maine. His father was a shipbuilder
and master of a vessel, and as a boy Mr.
Dyer learned his trade as ship builder and
also spent about nine years at sea. He
was born in 1832, and in 1849 went around
Cape Horn to San Francisco. He spent
three years in the gold region, then re-
turned home by way of Nicaragua lake,
stopping over at New York. In 1858 he
again went west this time to Pike's Peak
-
and the gold regions of Colorado, going
via. St. Louis. In 1859 he came to Wright
county, Minnesota, where he lived till 1862,
when he enlisted and served until the close
of the war as fifth corporal in Company B,
Hatche's battalion, Minnesota volunteers.
After the war was over he returned to
Wright county, where he remained until
about 16 years ago, when he moved to Ex-
celsior, where he has since followed his
trade as a boat builder and repairer. He
has a wife and one boy, about 9 years old,
at home. His two married sons, at Deep
Haven, are builders of the Onawa, Pysche
and other fast sailers on Lake Minnetonka.
M. Eckes, the 11th juror, lives on his
farm in Brooklyn township. He is 35 years
old, and was born in Wisconsin, on a farm.
In 1874 he came to Minnesota and located
in the town of Brooklyn. He is married,
but has no children.
John Dunn, the 12th juror, lives on his
farm in the town of Dayton, 2% miles
northwest of the village of Champlin, where
he has lived for 20 years. He was born in
Nova Scotia, in 1838, and came to Minne.
sota when he was 30 years old. He has
usually spent his summers on the farm
and his winters in the woods. Several
years of his early life were spent at sea.
He is married and has four children, all at
home on the farm. -
Meantime THE TRIBUNE was not mak-
ing any claims in display advertisements,
but was quietly giving the public the only
report of the trial, and the huge presses
Were kept busy running out the immense
editions, which were increasing every day.
The managers of THE TRIBUNE had allº-
ranged matters methodically, and there was
no excitement in its office. But one mem.
ber of the staff was placed upon the trial.
He wrote a long hand report for the noon
edition, and another to follow the morn-
ing stenographic proceedings in the even-
ing edition. He also wrote an exhaustive
introduction for the evening edition, follow-
ing it with a new introduction for the
morning edition, a busy man's report that
told all the trial in a few columns. No
other men were needed. Other papers used
as many as four men each in securing a
running account and introduction and the
result showed poor management, for the
reports were not only contradictory, but
were filled with repetition. Too many
cooks were spoiling the broth. -
Then THE TRIBUNE set a trap for The
Times. In its official report for the after-
noon, it interpolated the words, “This re-
port was stolen,” placing a word of the
sentence in different places. The next
morning the interpolated words appeared in
The Times, and it had confessed itself a
thief. At the same time in its editorial
column, was a display advertisement stat-
ing that it published the only stenographic
report of the trial. The whole world rid-
iculed The Times and THE TRIBUNE was
avenged. The most important phase of the
report of THE TRIBUNE was that it was
enabled to place before its readers, large
pieces of evidence which had been ruled out,
and was given to the court in private, and
could not be secured by the other papers.
The details were perfect. THE TRIB-
UNE never made a slip in its wonderful
report, and from almost the start of the
trial, was the recipient of a steady stream
of enconiums, for the way the work was





THE HI
STORY of T HE GING MURDER.
TRIBUNE. Something must be
being done. Letters of congratulation
poured in, and the trial was said, by some
of the best judges of newspaper work in
the country, to be handled by THE TRIB-
UNIE in a manner surpassing any news-
paper work of the kind ever attempted.
Necessarily this set the rival papers
upon nettles. The Minneapolis Times had
advertised that it would print the only
stenographic report of the trial, and had
engaged a mercantile stenographer to do
the work. The managers of that paper
did not know that it would be impossible
for any but a trained court reporter to
handle the work. They realized their great
mistake on the first day, when against
THE TRIBUNE'S 12 coluinns of Mr. Hall’s
address, given verbatim, they only secured
a pitful three columns. Their subscribers
complained, and began to change to THE
done.
With the greatest of haste they called upon
THE TRIBUNE'S court stenographer and
wanted a copy of the official report. It
was refused. They could not get it, for
THE TRIBUNE had forestalled them. The
same paper had a display advertisement
which had been run for a week stating
that they would give the only stenographic
report, and they did not take it from their
columns. They tricked their subscribers.
something must be done, so they proceeded
to steal the report of THE TRIBUNE from
its evening edition, completing the report
by a contradictory and garbled stenograph-
ic report taken by its man in the afternoon.
THE TRIBUNE could be furnished with
an absolute correct copy of the proceed-
ings, sanctioned by the court. The morn-
ing after the opening speech of Assistant
State's Attorney Hall, the full address
was presented to readers of THE TRIB-
UNE, in type, illustrated, a mammoth re-
port, taking up 12 of the columns of extra
width, used in that paper. Day after day
THE TRIBUNE, and THE TRIBUNE
alone of all the papers, furnished every
word of the trial to its readers, in ad-
dition to an introduction, written by one
of the staff, explaining the testimony and
reciting interesting scenes of the trial. It
made a tremendous hit, and so wide-
spread was the fact, that in a few days
a hundred of public places throughout the
country, its files were kept and read until
the papers were absolutely worn out by
constant use.
To do this required a large outlay of
money, and great handling of men. Ten
typesetting machines took copy fresh from
the transcriber, and not long after the
actual evidence it was in type in THE
TRIBUNE office. Two stenographers
worked in shifts, and in the afternoon is-
sue of THE TRIBUNE, every day, ap-
peared every word of the proceedings of
the morning, being followed in the morning
issue by the complete evidence of the day
before. The transcript alone, cost THE
TRIBUNE more than $1,000, and to put
the 400 columns in type, cost a small
fortune, yet its readers secured this in-
valuable news every day, for the usual
price of the paper, one cent per copy.
Never had anything of the kind been heard
of before in newspaper annals, and it mark-
ed an era in newspaper work.
The last juror was secured at 11 o'clock,
and the crowd heaved a sigh of relief as
he was sworn. It had been a patient crowd,
at times so far forgetting itself that it
broke into wild fits of laughter, meriting
the rebukes of Judge Smith, but it had
been uniformly orderly. For an hour in
the morning Mr. Hall went on with his
opening, sometimes in his earnestness hew-
ing too close to the line, and being called
down by the court on an objection by Mr.
Erwin, but always earnest, and painstalk-
ing. While his work was not as touching
as that of Mr. Nye, he was deliberate and
forceful, and the crowd listened to him
in rapt attention. Then came the noon
hour and a short respite.
In the afternoon the crowd was enor-
mous. The street was blocked, and hun-
dreds sought the sheriff for passes in
vain. The ladies turned out in large num-
bers. The arrangement of the court room
had also been changed to make more room,
and the select portion of the audience,
to the number of about 100, were seated
inside that charmed railing which up to
that time had been reserved for jurors,
witnesses, attorneys and the men of the
press. When Mr. Hall raised his right
arm and began the most startling portion
of the history of the inception and ful-
fillmen of the fearful crime, according to
the standpoint of the state, a sea of faces
followed his every move, and lived again
the events of that fateful night.
And how did the accused take it? Sitting
there, for the moment forgotten as all
eyes followed each movement of the speak-
er, he folded his arms above his massive
chest, and chewed gum, at first with a
pensive air, then, as the speaker went over
the horrible details, his jaw would come
together firmly at times, his eyes roll with
more than its accustomed nervous move-
ment, and his elbows would tremble,
either with rage or fear. Then he would
smile sarcastically and glance at “Bill”
Erwin, who would smile back at him re-
assuringly. He was a study.
At this point in the case, was made public
one of, if not the greatest piece of news-
paper enterprises known to the world THE
MINNEAPOLIS TRIBUNE, the represen-
tative paper of the northwest, was the only
newspaper in the city that realized what a
stupendous thing the trial was to be and
its management made preparations in ac-
cord witn its importance. Arrangements
were made with the court itself, and the
court stenographers, whereby to the exclu-
sion of other Minneapolis papers, it was
sent all over the United States and Canada,
large numbers were ordered sent to the old
country. It had scored the greatest hit of
the century.
THE TRIBUNIE also broke the record in
another way. In one stage af the proceed-
ings, the judge referred the attorney for
the defense to its pages, publicly, advising
him to use its columns to search for his
hypothetical questions. On no less than
three occasions the court publicly made use
of its columns, and in making up his
charge to the jury, he used its files. The
county attorney had a huge scrap book,
in which the columns of THE TRIBUNE
were pasted, and he used this in his rebut-
tal and cross-examination, as it could be
indexed in much better shape than his
bulky transcripts. It was the first case on
record where the press was made a trans-
cript of record.







































THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 59
The first evidence was put in, late in the
afternoon of Wednesday, January 30. Up
that time, the crowd, while it had been
large, had assumed huge proportions, but
ºne next day it was different. Anxiety to
see the principals and the witnesses in the
case, brought out the public en mass, and
ºne streets appeared like a riot.
The scene in front of Labor Temple at
º:30 Thursday morning, a half hour before
ºne trial opened, was one which would
east in the shade a Republican convention,
in a presidential year. From the entrance
to the corner of Eighth avenue and around
that corner, then on the route to the jail,
it was one unbroken srowd. In front of
the entrance the crowd was forced out
into the street, and so blocked it that the
electric cars were obliged to force their
way through by a clamorous ringing of the
gong and slow movement. The doors had
not been opened as yet, and only a chosen
few, mostly ladies, were in the court room,
awaiting the opening of the trial. Inside
all were eager and passed the time in dis-
cussing the proceedings of the previous
day. -
in the street all was jam, noise, bustle,
and confusion. Men jostled each other in
attempts to obtain locations near the en-
trance, and there was a continuous fight
for position. Finally officers made their
appearance, and forced the struggling men
into line, and there was a scramble for
place again. The line stretched to the
corner, and around it three or four peo-
ple in breadth, and there still came the
tramp of men from both sides of the street,
where, as far as the eye could reach down
town, the unbroken line of pedestrians
was still coming. Women clamored for
admission with the men, and their shrill
voices raised in expostulation were mingled
with the hoarse tones of angry men.
By the time the trial began there were
5,000 people left crowded outside, among
which were many women. Three women
fainted, and it was with the utmost diffi-
culty that they were carried from the
crush and taken to the court house, where
they could be cared for. They had been
crushed and frightened, but were soon
brought to a sense of being, and out of all
danger. There were no serious conse-
quences. The sheriff warned women to keep
away from the trial, as it was growing in
numbers daily, and there was great danger
that some might be seriously hurt in the
crush.
The warning had little effect, however,
and the women came day after day, and
secured the best seats. A system of passes
was arranged, and no one was admitted
without one. Thousands every day waited
in the streets, satisfied to stand in the cold
and wait to catch a glimpse of the noted
prisoner as he was brought from the jail
to the court room and back again. He was
always manacled, and six officers guarded
him, to prevent violence from the crowd.
His tall form was easily discernable above
the heads of the officers, where his smiling
and buoyant face smiled upon the crowd
with the utmost assurance. The young man
of the drawing room, the pet of society la-
dies, the welcomed suitor in many a home,
bore his troubles well.
Friday afternoon, before time for court
to adjourn, Juror S. H. Dyer, an aged man,
was taken sick and a recess was taken. He
had been used to outside work and the fetid
air of the court room had been too much
for him. A day was wasted until he could
recover. The foul air was stifling every-
body in that room. The weather was cold
and the windows could only be opened a
trifle, while huge fires were kept going in
the two huge stoves in the room. The court
room was jammed, packed every day, until
ladies were seated against the witness
chair, so that they could touch a witness,
and others were elbowing the prisoner him-
self. It was with difficulty that Judge
Smith himself could get to his bench.
One day Judge Smith and his wife, in
striving to gain admission to the side
door, was swept from the steps clear out
into the crowd in the middle of the street.
With the assistance of officers they gained
admission after a struggle. Big burly John
Sirois, the deputy sheriff who guarded the
prisoner, found his strength necessary in
forcing a way to the door with his pris-
oner after he had gained admission to the
stairway. Never was such a persistent
crowd seen. People became angered because
they could not get in the hall, and wrote
letters to the papers, condemning Sheriff
Holmberg for issuing passes. He had se-
lected the proper way, however, and to his
forethought is due the fact that the trial
could go on at all. All was excitement,
and Labor Temple was the Mecca for every-
body. People came in from hundreds of
miles around to be at the trial for a day,
and often had to go home again with their
curiosity unsatisfied.
Under these conditions the trial went on,
and the state presented its case, beginning
with the finding of the body, showing the
jury the great plot and its successful com-
pletion in the most convincing manner.
Every detail was given, and gradually the
theories of the defense began to manifest
themselves. It was apparent, however, that
the attorneys were catching at straws and
would not know what to do until the state
had finished. Tuesday, Feb. 5, Claus A. Blixt.
was placed on the stand, and his examina-
tion begun.
The short, thick-set man, in dark gray
clothing, stepped to the clerk's desk with a
firm step, and raising his hand high over
his head took the oath to tell the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth in the
cause on trial.
Few eyes glanced toward Harry Hayward
as the name was pronounced, but those
which did failed to see any start, or blanch-
ing of the cheek. Instead there was a
slight sneer as the handsome young man
looked at his accuser, and then he settled
himself in his seat to hear the sensational
recital—the most sensational, the most ex-
traordinary probably, ever chronicled in
the history of crime, more improbable pos-
sibly than was contained in the little
volume of French tales of crime which
Mr. Erwin had at his elbow when the case
was called. As the testimony went on,
Hayward sneered and laughed alternately,
and the color left his cheeks slightly, but
he was not very pale. He was a study in
cool nerve.
The most disgusting thing connected with
the recital was the actions of the audience.
One would suppose that a gathering of peo-
ple was capable of some feeling, at least
of horror. When Blixt told how Harry had
proposed felling Miss Ging with a blow,



60
THE GING MURDER.
THE HISTORY OF
then placing her in the elevator with her
head projecting between floors, so that
when the elevator was started by Blizt it
would cut her head off, that audience
laughed in the most fiendish glee. It was
startling to hear that laugh, in such a hor-
rible and blood curdling recital. After that
it was repeated several times, at, usually,
horrible places.
Blixt told his story in a clear voice, plain-
er than the majority of the witnesses who
have been on the stand. He was cool and
collected, although at times his fingers
worked nervously as his hands were clasped
in his lap. His story, for the most part,
was exactly as it was printed after his con-
fession. He told how Harry had outlined
his various plans how he had cut the T rail
for him (an old, rusty motor line rail, much
smaller than a railroad rail) by heating it
in the furnace and then cutting it with
an ax; how Harry had plied him with
liquor on the fateful night, and then of
that trip on the lonely road. He kept to
his original tale, but gave a new reason for
his doing the deed. -
Harry, he said, had threatened him, but
he refused to do the work, then finally
Harry had threatened to kill his (Blixt's)
wife if he did not comply with his request.
Then at last he consented, afraid that Hay-
ward would carry out his threat. Harry
had told him that he had already killed
two men, and didn't care whom he killed
to further his plans. At this point Blixt,
whose voice had been growing shaky while
speaking of his wife, broke down and
sobbed like a child. Then the audience
laughed again. That audience had a pecu-
liar sense of humor.
The recital of the killing was dramatic.
Blixt, as he told the story, illustrated it
by giving motions with his body and
hands, and after he had closed with the
fall of the body, and the passing of the
wheel over it, there was silence for a mo-
ment, and then a great sigh went up from
the audience. At last it had been moved
to actual feeling. Blixt said he could have
shot her 10 times before he did. She kept
leaning out of the buggy looking for her
lover, who had promised to follow them.
Once he thought he would stop the rig,
leave it and her, and fly the country to
escape Harry, but then he thought of his
wife, who would be left behind, and he
feared for her, and carried out the work.
As she leaned forward he shot her. The
body stiffened back, and raised up slightly, .
its head going against the back curtain.
The speaker illustrated it by stiffening his
own body, and giving a horrible expression
to his face as he closed his eyes to show
how he looked. Then he acted the scene
again as he told how he had taken the
robe and placed about her, and then placed
his arm and hand against the form at a
point above his head to keep her in posi-
tion.
At what point he shot her, on the road,
he could not say. He knew that he drove
on about 25 yards, and then turned about
and drove toward town. Finally he began
to think he was getting too near town. He
was almost palsied by fear, with the spec-
tral body covered with the goat skin robe,
by his side. In a few minutes he would be
in the city with his bloody companion. He
must get rid of it. Then he reached down,
took the feet in his hands, and slid them
over the side. They slid out and
THE BODY TOPPLED OVER,
face forward, from his side, and slid to the
ground. The horse started, the wheel
bumped over the body where it lay, and he
sped away into the night, toward the lights
of the city shining in the distance. As he
told it he pushed his feet over the little
platform where he was sitting, leaned his
body forward, and gave the lurch, illustra-
ting how the body fell.
From that he told how he had driven on
Lake street to a point about three blocks
beyond Hennepin, and there left the buggy,
walking up the Hastings and Dakota.
tracks. He told of his going out to Bloom-
ington avenue to collect a loan, then to
Washington avenue, where he shook dice
in a saloon, and had two glasses of beer,
then home to the Ozark, where he took the
cartridges from the revolver in Harry's
bath room, and placed in others, burning
the former ones in the furnace. Then he
went to bed, where Harry saw him later.
The testimony was minute in the smallest
details, even to telling little conversations
not material. He related how he had sold-
ered a gold wach in a tin can for Harry,
and hid it in an old white lead keg in the
attic, from where Harry removed it. Ac-
cording to his story, Harry had told him
that he had caused Miss Ging to go riding,
to frequent places with other men, among
other places St. Paul, so that suspicion
might be thrown from him. All in all, it
was seemingly a story impossible for the
man like Blixt to conceive unless it ac-
tually occurred.
The fact that Harry Hayward had offered
Blixt money to do a piece of work in con-
nection with a newspaper man was brought
out only in a sentence, the state not being
allowed to show it at that time. This deal
was the proposition to do “up” Fred A.
Briggs, then publisher of the weekly paper,
previously mentioned on account of an
article derogatory to Hayward's character,
a fact which was exclusively published in
THE TRIBUNE shortly after the murder.
This whole transaction will probably all
come out later.
When the revolver was produced there
was another dramatic scene in which Mr.
Erwin figured. No one could extract the
chambers from the revolver. Harry took it,
Mr. Erwin holding it in his hand at the
same time, and instinctively there was a
movement of nervousness in the audience.
A deputy stood close to him, ever watchful.
The cartridges fell out on the floor, and
Harry cut his finger on the weapon.
At once Mr. Erwin's dramatic voice came
sharp and distinct.
“The defendant has cut his finger on this
weapon. There is blood you see, I want it
noticed that such is the case. We want
everything open and above board. If
blood is found on the revolver, this must
be noted.”
The state admitted that there was no
blood on the weapon, and the trial went
on.
At the noon recess Blixt took his wife's
arm, tenderly, and together they went to
the jail. A crowd was waiting to see Hay-
ward, and few recognized Blixt. Almost
unnoticed he crossed the street with his
wife and one deputy, and was lost to sight
behind the doors of the jail.





THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIUIRDER.
61
Blixt was a revelation. He had made a
good witness in the morning, but it was in
the afternoon, at the battle of cross-ques-
tioning, that he shone out, separate and
distinct from the ordinary run of witnesses,
even throwing in the shade the expert wit-
nesses for the state. When he took the
stand in the morning, there had been some
little fear as to how he would bear the or-
deal. He was a surprise. When he took
the stand in the afternoon the room was a
mass, a perfect sea of faces, and all, every
one of them, were focused upon that gray
looking visage on the raised seat near the
judge, his head outlined against the thick
white frost on the window pane back of
him. It would not have been wounderful if
he had quailed under the ordeal, but he
did not.
W. W. Erwin took him in hand, and
people near him could tell by the contrac-
tion of the muscles about the eyes of the
attorney, that he expected to have that
witness twined about his finger in about
three minutes. He was disappointed. The
minutes rolled by, and even that portion of
the crowd which had disbelieved the story
began to believe, for if ever there was a
living exemplification of the saying that
“truth is mighty, and will prevail,” it was
shown upon that witness stand, with that
surging crowd about, and the piercing,
prentrating tones of the great criminal
lawyer going to the very heart and soul
of the self-condemned man.
Not once did the witness flinch, not once
did he waver. The labor of a whole after-
noon left Mr. Erwin in doubt as to where
he was. The testimony remained unshaken
by one single solitary contradiction, one
manifest false statement on its face. He
repeatedly asked if the horror of the mur-
der did not “strike” the witness after it
was committed. He used the word “strike”
so many times that the witness thought it
was too flippant, and then that semi-ignor-
ant man gave the great criminal attorney
a lesson, and a dramatic one.
“That horror has never left me,” he said.
“Deep in my breast is the sore, but God in
heaven has wiped the feeling away. I am
a different man now. God in heaven has
made me so.”
“Then you feel that you are forgiven?”
asked Mr. Erwin.
“Yes, sir, I do,” was the firm reply.
Once again, when the attonrey was
doubting the story that there was no blood
on his clothes, Blixt raised his hand on high
and looking to the ceiling, cried:
“It is the truth, so help me, God!”
In vain the attorney branched from one
chain of the story to another, made him
break in on a thread given long before, be-
gun all over again, and still that calm wit.
ness answered straight and to the point.
Once Mr. Erwin asked him to think a mo-
ment before answering, because he was
about to ask an impeaching question. The
question came, and quicker, without a mo-
ment's thought, came the negative answer.
Even Erwin himself, before he had fin-
ished the testimony of the day, appeared
to have become conviced that the only
theory he could go on was that Blixt had
only lied in stating that it was Harry who
had counselled the bloody deed. Blixt had
apparently passively given up, and was
facing what was in store for him without
a care for what it might be. In vain Mr.
Erwin tried to make him say that promises
had been made to him to extract the story,
but he denied it flatly all through. Ex-
Mayor W. H. Eustis listened intently to
the story under the fire of cross-questions,
and often nodded emphatically as the wit-
ness made some statement. The ex-mayor
was surprised himself at the firmness of
the witness.
Under cross-examination it appeared as if
Blixt, when he fired that fatal shot, had
just nerved himself to it when Miss Ging
was about to draw her hea od back into the
buggy. He pushed the revolver toward her
head without taking aim, and, as he fired,
her head came back, the powder burned
her hair, and the muscular force of her
movement before death was carried out
after the ball had crashed under the brain,
and the body drew back erect against the
back of the seat. The witness illustrated the
scene again, with Mr. Erwin acting the
part of Miss Ging, and the audience was
breathless. It was a perfect scene and one
never to be forgotten by those who saw it.
So impressed was Mr. Erwin with the
fact that there was no blood on the
clothes which Blixt still wore on the stand
that he had the jury examine them while
Blixt stood up and allowed the examinal
tion. Juror Timberake thought he discov-
ered some small spots on the left side of
the back of the coat, and Mr. Erwin asked
that the coat be taken, when Blixt went
back to the jail, in order that it might be
analyzed to see if it was human blood. Mr.
Tall stated that the examination would be
made, although the court did not see how
it was material.
All through the next day, until Blixt was
excused in the afternoon on account of a.
headache, Erwin examined the witness
without avail from his standpoint, and
then the next morning took it up again,
but finally gave up baffled.
It was a battle royal, that cross-examina-
tion between the great attorney and the
confessed assassin. It was apparent that
Mr. Erwin had taken a Wrong measure of
the mental calibre of Blixt. He invariably
couched his questions in obtuse phrases,
the witness often answering them as he un-
derstood them, thus showing his simple
mind. Erwin's satire was taken for non-
esty of purpose, and often the witness Was
perplexed. The witness, with his Queer un-
derstanding of court procedure, often per-
plexed Mr. Erwin, and the study of the
two was interesting. -
After three and one-half hours of close
questioning the close air of the room and
the mental strain had given the witness a
headache, and he was excused. The at-
torney for the prisoner apparently had not
attained a victory, and would be obliged to
do a sum in arithmetic in order to dis-
cover whether or not the time had been
absolutely wasted.
“Erwin has made a great attorney for the
state,” said W. H. Eustis, as Blixt. stepped
down from the stand.
The first point made by the attorney was
that Blixt had changed his story from the
confesion in order to make it appear that
Harry was at the flat with the whisky at
about 7:30 o'clock instead of 5 o'clock Mon-
day night. A half hour was pent on this,
and after Mr. Erwin had tried his prettiest,
and confused the witness a trifle at times,
that witness knocked the effect all out by



62 THE HISTORY QF THE GING MURDER.
saying that he remembered afterward that
his brother-in-law came to the flat, and
that his time to report was 7:30. Then Mr.
Erwin caught him because he had said in
his confession that Harry had told him
to put on his clothes and come, when they
were at the door of Harry's flat, and in his
story on the stand he said they were in the
basement.
“Why, both places,” Blixt had answered.
“That word had to be said to make the
thing right.”
Then Mr. Erwin straightened himself up,
and he pointed his glance, forefinger and
whole body apparently at the witness, a
veritable Nemesis he asked:
“Ah, this is what you had to make up,
to make your story appear right. Who
told you to say that to make it right?”
The audience was breathless, awaiting his
reply. -
“Why, Harry did,” said Blixt, quite calm-
ly. “I know the words were said.”
The attorney showed that in the con-
fesison Blixt said that Harry whistled to
him before they met Miss Ging; in his
story on the stand he said Harry coughed.
“Cough the way he did,” said Mr. Erwin.
“I can’t,” was the reply. “He can if he
wants to—he can show you.”
The attorney also showed that in the
confession, Blixt said that Harry whistled
to Miss Ging, and she saw him and drove
to the side of the street. In his story on
the stand he said that he saw the buggy
first at the side of the road. He showed
that in the confession Blixt said Harry only
told her to drive with him, and he (Harry)
would meet them at Calhoun. On the stand
he said Harry told her he (Blixt) was one
of the gang. In the confession, he had said
he took Miss Ging's feet out of the buggy,
and she slid down herself. In his testimony
he said she fell heavily. In the confession
he did not tell of cleaning the revolver in
Harry's room, and had to be reminded be-
fore he said he went to Harry's room at
all. On the stand he said he went there,
and cleaned the revolver in the bath room.
“How did it come that both in the con-
fession and on the stand, you forgot going
to Harry's room, and had to be prompted
both times. Was it part of your made-up
story?”
“It is all the truth,” was the reply. “I
have made nothing up.”
In all these cases the witness stated
that he was ill and very nervous at the
time he made the confession, and that it
was afterward when the details in full
came to his mind. The attorney found
only minor descrepancies until he came to
a part of the testimony relative to the
watch, pills and cartridges. Here Mr.
Erwin turned to a portion of the confes-
sion, and read, making it appear that
Blixt had said: “My wife had the prin-
ciple. She toid Mr. Hall what she thought
about it.”
“It is not so,” cried the witness vehe-
mently. “My wife knew nothing about
that. That's the truth; she knew nothing
about all that.”
“So you would kill that part of the con-
fession as quickly as you killed Miss Ging,”
cried Mr. Erwin. “Will you swear that
statement here is not so?”
“That my wife knew it? Yes, I will.”
This was apparently the first real point
made by the defense, for the confession
was taken by George Hitchcock, one of
the most correct stenographers in the
Country. It looked a trifle bad, but the
state showed a clear explanation. It
showed that what Blixt meant to say
in the confession was that his wife took
care of Harry's room, and that she might
know what Harry had done with the ar-
ticles.
“Claus Blixt, are you not afraid, now,
of a gang”
“Yes, sir, I am. I wouldn't dare to go
out doors alone now. I would be afraid I
would be killed.”
The question was asked by Mr. Erwin
in his most dramatic and pointed style,
and the answer came from the self-con-
fessed murderer, at the close of the most
penetrating cross-examination a witness
had ever been subjected to, lasting nine full
hours.
“If you ever get out of this, then, you
will never go out?”
“Never again, no sir, never. His–Harry's
—gang would kill me.”
It was startling. It was a fitting denoue-
ment to the most wonderful story ever told
on the witness stand.
For nine hours the best attorney that
could be secured by money had pitted his
great intellect, his vast experience, against
that common man, and at the very last
there came the most crushing blow to the
attorney. As a last resort Mr. Erwin flung
questions regarding every theory advanced
by every newspaper in the Northwest.
First he brought up the pistol shot theory,
and asked Blixt if he heard a shot.
“Yes, I did,” came the quick reply. “It
was about five minutes before I shot, and
was in the thick timber.”
He denied that he shot Miss Ging after
he struck her with the T rail, denied that
there was any other man in it but Harry,
denied that bloody clothes had been hidden
the other side of the lake, denied that the
body had been laid in the buggy with the
crushed head on the seat, denied that he
belonged to a green goods gang, “except
Harry's,” he said.
He admitted that he might have passed
counterfeit money, because Harry had told
him that he had. For a quarter of an hour
the great attorney, beaten at every point,
by the witness, hurled those pointed ques-
tions that made public the various theories
the defense is using as fishing grounds.
The attorney became irritable and angry
by turns, and when the last question was
asked the witness was still calm and in-
passive.
The defense sprung its first sensation, but
ºup to date it was only a flash in the pain,
and no one was very greatly impressed with
it. The scene was a following out of the
theory of the defense to the effect that a
third, and perhaps a fourth party, other
than Harry Hayward, was connected with
the deed. This showed beyond a doubt
that such would be the line of defense, to
try and show another line of theory as to
the killing, which may raise a reasonable
doubt in the minds of the jury as to the
story of Blixt being a true one.
T. C. Cunningham, a dark haired, dark
mustached, cadaverous looking man in
abbreviated sleeves, and general unkempt
appearance, was the star actor in the lit-
tle play. He keeps a hotel at 405 Central
avenue, and has given the defense a state-







THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
ment, which had been reduced to writing,
which positively connects Blixt with cer-
an other parties. When the trial opened
Mr. Smith was seen to carry very affec-
tionately under his arm a large book,
wrapped in newspaper. It was a hotel reº-
ster. This was a part of the properties in
he play. -
t º Blixt went on the stand Mr. Erwin
asked questions for a foundation. He
asked if Blixt knew the hotel, or knew the
man very quietly he said that he did not.
stand up, Mr. Cunninghom,” cried Mr.
Erwin.
The individual referred to did so, and
raised his hand that there might be no mis-
take. Blixt looked at him positively. Those
who saw the Dugan trial noted the differ-
ence of expression between that on the face
of Blixt and that which had come to Du-
gan in a previous trial, as Dr. Scanlan had
reared his gaunt form before the doomed
prisoner. Dugan had looked livid; Blixt
calmly surprised.
*I never saw him in my life,” he said.
*Will you swear that you did not go to
that man's hotel with two men named W.
N. King and Alfred Lund, and engage
roms on Nov. 2” asked Mr. Erwin, im-
pressively.
*That is the biggest lie I ever heard in
my life,” was the reply of the witness,
spoken in a calm tone. “I say not.”
Then Mr. Erwin asked him by repeated
questions if he did not go there, say he
was an engineer, say that the two men
with him were out of work, that they
would have work later, and that there
would be another man come later, who was
then attending school. The attorney read
a lengthy, minute description of two men,
describing even the covering of the but-
tons on their coats, the kind of pipes they
smoked, the manner in which their faces
were shaved, etc. The witness looked at
him wonderingly all the while, and volun-
teered the information that it was a most
improbable story. He had never known
such men.
Then Mr. Erwin showed him the entry:
*Arne Teller, Wallis, City,” and the wit-
mess again remarked that it was a wonder-
ful piece of fabrication. Harry Hayward
began to be interested, and chuckled over
the questions. He also examined the regis-
ter.
Mrs. Blixt smiled through it all, and
Blixt was not worried. As a dramatic
scene it was a failure, for the crowd was
moved to laughter, instead of being im-
presed with the affair.
The Cunnigham story was never used by
the defense. It had been intended to use it
and connect it with the murder, but it was
abandoned . The statement he had given
to the defense, at least the one that Mr.
Erwin was to use, is as follows:
“Nov. 2 Claus A. Blixt came to my house
and registered under the name of Arne
Teller. He was accompanied by a man who
registered as Alfred Lund. Blixt paid me
$3 in advance for board, and told me that
there would be another boarder who would
show up soon and whose name was H. F.
Hayes. I never saw Blixt again until I
saw him upon the witness stand in the
Hayward trial, but I know that he is the
same man who registered as “Arne Teller.”
Furthermore, I have in my possession a
receipt signed by Claus A. Blixt, about
which there can be no dispute. This signa-
ture, and the signature of the name of
‘Arne Teller' on my register I have had ex-
amined by experts. They tell me that both
were unquestionably written by the same
person.
“Lund remained with me until Nov. 8.
Then he left, and I have not seen him
since. Nov. 11 Hayes came to my house
and took up his quarters. When I dunned
him for his board he said he had no money.
“Soon afterwards he got a job with the
street railway company as a conductor.
He did not remain in the employ of the
company many days, and when he had
been discharged I dunned him again. He
still claimed he had no money. I said to
him that he must have had $25 to put up
with the street railway company as a de-
posit. He said that Gen. John B. Sanborn,
of St. Paul, who was a relative of his, had
put up the money for him, and that after
his discharge he had given the money back
to Mr. Sanborn. I have seen Mr. Sanborn
and he denies all knowledge of any such
man as Hayes. -
“On the Saturday but one preceding the
murder Hayes showed up with quite a sum
of money in his possession. He said that
he had negotiated a loan of $7,000 for an-
other party and had received a commis-
sion. On that day I received a letter post-
marked Osceola Mills, Wis., and addressed
to my house, which directed me to deliver
the inclosure to H. F. Hayes. I read that
inclosure. It said: ‘I can accommodate
you on Saturday night,” and was signed
‘A. K. K.” In the afternoon a postal card
came addressed to Hayes which I read. It
said: ‘I cannot accommodate you on Sat-
urday night.” It was also signed A. K. K.”
That night about 10:50 Hayes received a
telegram, the contents of which I do not
know. -
“Hayes left my house on the Wednesday
preceding the murder. He gave directions
to have his trunk taken to the depot. He
entered in my register the address to which
he wished his mail forwarded. That ad-
dress is 62 United States Express building,
Washington street, Chicago. I have tele-
graphed to that address and got the reply
that Hayes was unknown there.
“Hayes received on an average three or
four letters per day while at my house.
They all bore the postmark of Seattle,
Washington, and the card of Dunn & Dunn,
attorneys. A wealthy man of Seattle was
killed in that city, and Hayes intimated to
some parties in this city that he was con-
cerned in that case.
“Hayes was apparently an educated man.
He claimed to be a lawyer and a graduate
of an Eastern college. I have written to
the president of the college, but have as
yet received no reply. I told the police
authorities of my suspicions in the matter
before Blixt was arrested. Inspector How-
ard has told me that Hayes was here under
an assumed name, and that he knows
where he is.
“I made a trip to Osceola Mills, but was
unable to find any one there who bore the
initials A. K. K.,’ but I did find that
there had been a man there whose descrip-
tion answered that of Alfred Lund.
“I have examined the clothes and valise
found by ex-Sheriff Ege in the vicinity of
the murder. I would not like to say they
are the same articles that I saw in the







64 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
possession of Hayes, but the pants, the
sweater and the valise certainly resemble
the articles which I saw him have when
he boarded at my house.
“When he left my place he had a large
sum of money in his possession. I helped
him fix up a belt for the purpose of con-
cealing it. I did not count the money, but
he ran it over in my presence. I judge
that it amounted to $3,500 or $4,000.”
Inspector James Howard positively states
that the story is absurd. There is some
truth in it, he says, but he claims that Cun-
ningham has embellished the facts. How-
ard says:
“Friday night following the murder,
which was the night of the 7th of Decem-
ber, Cunningham visited the East Side
police staion and told Lieut. Cronin of a
man named H. E. Hayes, whom he thought
had been acting in a mysterious manner.
I was sent from police headquarters to
hear Cunningham's story, which was told
to the lieutenant and myself. Cunning-
ham said that the man he called Hayes
came to his hotel about two weeks before
the murder and got work with the street
Car Company. He also said that Hayes
wore working clothes around the hotel one
day, the Saturday before the murder. Cun-
ningham had met Hayes in front of Bau-
man's saloon, on Hennepin avenue near
Second street. Hayes was dressed ex-
quisitely. He wore a plug hat and clothes
that became a gentleman of means. It was
this incident that aroused Cunningham's
suspicion, and he told the lieutenant and
myself that he believed Hayes might be
connected with the murder in some way.”
“Cunningham did not mention the names
of any other persons that night. He never
referred to the main who registered at
his hotel under the name of Teller, who
he has since claimed was Blixt. Nor did he
mention the name of W. N. King. He
merely said that Hayes left his hotel
saying that he was going to Chicago. Cun-
ningham said that the very next day after
he departed from the hotel he met Hayes
on Hennepin avenue dressed in fine clothes.
It was the incident, he said, that aroused
his suspicions. Cunningham never men-
tioned this big money the night he was at
the East Side police station.
“The defense in the Hayward case in-
tended to place him on the stand to tell
his sensational story, but when one of the
attorneys who assisted Erwin in the case
learned that the police had found an owner
for the clothes found by ex-Sheriff Ege
near Lake Harriet, it was decided that
Cunningham should not be allowed to tes-
tify, and he did not. Cunningham had
identified the clothes as those worn by the
man named Teller. As a matter of fact, the
clothes belonged to one of a party of
boys who camped within a few rods of
where they were found during the summer.
We know who the boys are and would
have placed them on the stand had Cun-
ningham testified.
“I met Cunningham on the street one day
during the trial and he asked me what
counterfeit money looked like. He asked
me if I could show him some. Doyle was
with me at the time, but I don’t think he
heard what Cunningham said.”
Thus perished the only defense the at-
torneys for the accused ever had prepared
in its case. -
After the session Mr. Nye confronted
John Day Smith, and pointedly accused the
defense of having manufactured the whole
thing. Mr. Smith stated innocently that he
knew nothing about it, and as far as he
knew it was all right. When Mr. Erwin
was spoken to about it that gentleman
grimly asked that the speaker wait until
he produced his witness on the stand. He |
would not say anything at present.
W. H. Eustis was very indignant over the
scheme of the defense. “Those fellows
should be convicted for perjury,” he said.
“If I live, I will see to it that the matter
is brought before the grand jury, anyway.
It is a shame that any such patent fabri-
cation should be perpetrated upon a court
in a civilized community.”
So good a witness had Blixt made that
the state's attorney asked but five explana-
tory questions. He did show the jury that
Blixt had never seen his two statements
since they were made, and that he was
sick when they were made. He thought
the whiskey had made him sick. He ex-
plained that he never was away from his
wife in the evening, and that when he left
that fatal night he had to make the ex-
cuse of the loan, and so went after it,
after the murder.
Then a bottle of whisky was shown the
witness and he stated it was like the one
Harry had given him that night before the
murder. The state showed that it was a
companion bottle, taken from the same
shelf as the one sold to Harry, and the
man who sold it was produced.
Several times Mr. Erwin thought he had
caught the witness during the day, but
each time it urned out to be a false alarm,
for the witnesse showed that he knew his
story and the locations well. At one time
Mr. Erwin though he had him in a mistake
as to the location of Harry's bath room,
when it developed that the attorney was
mistaken, and had mistaken a bed room for
the bath room.
After inneundo, direct attack, efforts at
impeachment, studies in physchology, an-
alytical sentences, obtuse phraseology, and
keen sarcasm, Claus A. Blixt emerged calm
and impassive.
W. W. Erwin took a rest.
Hans Barlow and Charles Anderson gave
corroborating evidence as to the fact that
Harry and Blixt had been in the basement
together, and that there had been a T. rail
cut there, and that Harry and Blixt went
out at almost the same time that fatal
Monday night. They had all seen Harry
and Blixt together considerably. Anderson
corroborated considerable of the testimony
relative to what happened at the flat after
the “accident” was heard of.
The brothers met for the first time since
the arrest during the day. Harry was seat-
ed near the table when Adry was brought
in. Adry shook hands with Blixt and then
stepped up to where Harry was sitting. He
hesitated a moment and then his heart
failed him. He did not speak. In a few
moments he arose and went to Harry
again. Harry did not see him, and the
first he knew a hand was thrust in front
of him. He took it, and then looked up
and saw it was Adry. There was not an
expression on his face of recognition, or
any feeling. He dropped the hand, and
Adry turned away. They did not speak.



































THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIUIRDER. 65
That was the meeting of the brothers in
public.
Witness after witness was examnied, and
the state was gradually forging the chain
about the prisoner. Excitement was never
lax for a day, for something interesting
was cropping out at each session. On
Tuesday, February 11, Adry Hayward was
put on the stand, and before he was
through a horror grew upon the public.
He told how Harry had detailed to him
his dealings with a woman, how he was
gambling with her money and leading her
on. Then came the story of the plots,
how Harry had planed various ways to
kill the woman, once tangling her in the
lines and having a horse run away with
her. Once he spoke of taking her out in a
hack and killing her, and the hackman, if
necessary. Once he spoke of dumping her
out of a boat, a plan which he abandoned
for the reason that it would look like
suicide.
He told how Harry had wondered which
way her head would fall if she were thrown
from a buggy, whether from or towards a
boulder. He told how Harry had offered
him $2,000 to do the deed, then partially
corroborated Blixt by saying that Harry
had asked him to go out and kill somebody,
that he might see that he was not a
coward. As in Blixt's case, he was of:
fered $100 for the job. He had outlined
how the police would suspect some criminal
if there was any suspicion, and they would
be safe.
Finally he told how he had gone to Levi
M. Stewart and unfolded the plot, but was
not allowed to give the language. The
most astonishing part was the story tell-
ing what occurred after the murder, how
Harry had cleaned the revolver in his pres-
ence, and he had said, “It’s just like find-
ing money.” He corroborated Blixt as far
as to state that from his flat he saw a
light in Harry's bath room at about 10
o'clock. He told of the trip to Hamil to
the mill which afterwards burned, and
how Harry had told him that it was lucky
when it burned, for he could get to handle
the woman's money.
Never before on the witness stand was
there ever such a story told for mortal
ears to hear. The story when he told how
he tried to dissuade Harry from doing the
deed, was dramatic. He had told Harry if
he persisted he would hang for it.
Then that younger brother for the first
time turned slightly pale. The roses left
his cheeks, and his breath came painfully,
filling the massive chest until he rose al-
most to the chin, and then went in a
spasmodic burst. He was moved at last.
The nerves of steel had been touched and
the giant frame responded. Even then his
control over himself was wonderful, for
almost instantly he regained his compo-
sure.
It was a wonderful tale. Even the at-
torney for the defense was impressed with
it, and he took notes with which to cross-
examine. Adry was apparently cool, but at
times he held his hands clasp tightly, and
his movements showed that he was under
pressure, that it was a hard task to recite
that awful history.
“Look him in the eye, Harry—look him
in the eye.”
The words came in an excited whisper
however, showing himself
from a knot of people around the pris-
oner, and were spoken by the mother dur-
ing the most exciting moment.
Never had there been such a crowd. The
court room was packed to suffocation, and
everything was repressed. There was an
air almost of terror in the atmosphere. The
faces of that vast concourse of people bore
expressions as if the minds were laboring
under great mental disturbance. Gradually
for the time that W. W. Erwin had taken
Adry Hayward for cross-examination this
feeling had been growing. It reached its
height when Mr. Erwin asked Adry to ex-
plain how his brother had acted when he
had told him he would hang if he persisted
in following out his scheme.
Adry explained how his brother had
turned black in the face with passion; how
he had bent toward him and passed his
fingers around his neck and over his head.
In order to explain it more fully and make
the witness appear the more ridiculous be-
fore the experts. Mr. Erwin asked him to
illustrate the action. The witness stepped
easily from his chair to the table at which
Mr. Erwin and the prisoner sat. He went
over the story and explained his brother's
actions. As he bent over, his face was
only a few feet from that of his brother,
and facing him. Harry sat somewhat limp
in his chair, leaning back, the scene about
him much like the corner of a ring in
which a pugilistic champion has received
a blow.
Every eye in that room was bent upon
the scene, every form was half raised
from its seat. There was a rustle of ex-
citement about Harry.
“Look him in the eye, Harry—look him
in the eye,” cried the mother.
Harry did not move. His mother shook
him, and he roused himself, and leaning
far over the table towards his brother, his
head on his hands, tried to catch his
brother's eye. Adry was talking so rapidly
and excitedly that he did not see him, and
Harry could not catch his glance. He slid
back in his chair and looked at his mother,
as if to say that he was not equal to it.
If that eye could have controlled the elder
º in the past, it had grown power-
eSS.
Then followed the cross-examination of
Adry. It was virulent, it was exhaustive.
The great attorney bent all the power
of his mind in an attempt to confuse the
witness. At times Adry grew vexed, and
flung retorts at the attorney, at no time,
lacking men-
tally. He did show some animus against
Harry, however, at various times, but in
all the long examination he did not con-
tradict his original story told in the morn-
ing. Mr. Erwin tried to have him fix
dates, as he did with Blixt, but Adry
would not do so except on one occasion.
That was Nov. 30. Mr. Erwin asked him
if he would not believe his memory was a
hallucination of the brain if it was proved
conclusively that Harry was not there at
the time. The witness stopped for a mo-
ment, and then stated that he was not
stubborn, but that it would take wonderful
testimony to convince him that it was
not a horrible reality.
The attorney put obtuse and complex
questions in efforts to obtain results from
his experts, but apparently he failed.
Adry, however, made hardly as good a wit.
66 - THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
ness as Blixt, for the reason that he talk-
ed too much. He repeated his story on
cross-examination almost word for word
like his morning testimony. In fact, he
pleased the state, and as far as could be
seen, when the last question was asked he
was unshaken, and his story was intact.
Mr. Erwin tried to make him state that he
believed Harry had a gang of which the
witness was afraid, but Adry scouted the
idea, and said he thought the gang was a
fabrication of Harry's.
For more than an hour the next morning
Mr. Erwin cross-examined the witness, pin-
ning him down to various statements pre-
viously made, but he did not waver. Then
he adopted another line if inquiry, asking
Adry if he was not insane Oct. 8. Adry
said he could not say if he was or not. He
admitted a scene with his people, during
which he said Harry threatened to carve
him. Then he exposed the Hayward family
skeleton, by saying he had been accused of
robbing his father, and that Harry egged
them all on to make trouble. He had gone
for his revolver, and had said that if Harry
tried to cut him, he would let him wound
him first, then would blow out his brains.
He insisted that they all took Harry's part,
and that he was obliged to go to strangers
or outsiders for assistance.
Mr. Erwin followed with questions ask-
ing if he had not had hallucinations re-
garding his being in danger from people;
if he had not thought and written to his
parents while at the coast that he was in
danger from stones being dropped on his
head from buildings; if he had not told his
mother that his father was visiting a
house of ill-fame, and if he did not be-
come very angry when his mother refused
to believe it. This was for the purpose of
laying a foundation for proofs of insanity,
and the answers were ruled out by the
court, Mr. Nye stating that they could not
prove insanity by the witness himself
against himself.
Then followed the sensation of the morn-
ing. Mr. Erwin asked Adry if he had on
the same shoes he wore the night of the
murder. He admitted it. He was asked if
he was not at St. Paul with Miss Ging at
the Ryan Hotel. He denied ever having
been with her anywhere, and said he did
not know her. Then Mr. Erwin asked if he
did not go out to Calhoun with Blixt the
week before the murder and fix upon a
place, if he did not procure Blixt to do the
killing, ask him to use an iron, and say
that if he needed assistance “Frank” would
help him. To all this Adry very quietly
voiced a negative. Harry and the mother
sat unmoved while the attorney put these
pointed questions. Evidently the nother's
heart was not touched by apparent danger
to the elder son.
Then the attorney took another tack, and
asked why Adry had consented to remain
in jail, when he might have gone hone,
why he always had a deputy with inim, and
kindred questions. To these Adry replied
that it had been upon the advice of his at-
torney. He wanted somebody present, so
that no one could say that he had said
things which he had not said, in regard to
the murder.
The defense had been driven from one ex-
pediency to another, from the third nuan
theory to the green goods gang, and from
the green goods gang to insanity, and from
-
insanity to the most terrible expedient pos-
sible to think of. Harry Hayward was the
favorite son. Adry on the stand exhibited
the family skeleton, and from what had
been said the defense was obliged to show
an awful state in that home circle, a home
where the house was divided against itself.
From its trial crucible was to emerge the
Phoenix of a survival of the fittest.
Brother against brother, indeed, had it
been for years in that family, and now it
was to be a life for a life. Sitting there
stolidly, unmoved, the mother of those two
sons heard the attorney for the prisoner, in
open accusation, present the foundation for
laying the crime at the door of her first
born. In that crowd, not too finely strung,
not too tenderly constituted, there was a
trennor of horror. A crowd which had
laughed gleefully at a proposition to tear a
woman’s head off with an elevator was
transfigured with disgust at the proposition
of sacrificing one son on the altar of the
family preference.
“They are going to hang me!”
Such was Harry Hayward’s exclamation
to one of his attorneys Tuesday evening,
Feb. 12, as the two were crossing the street
from the court room to the county jail at
the close of the day, and after Adry Hay-
ward had given his testimony and witin-
stood the severe and exhaustive cross-ex-
amination without finching or deviating
in a single instance from the awful story
of his brother's plotting to encompass the
murder of Catherine ing.
Counsel for the prisoner endeavored to
encourage Harry, and remove the impres-
sion of impending doom which the evidence
of the elder brother had created, but the
effort was not successful, and the young
man passed into the big stone building
with the air of one who had lost hope in
the attempt to regain freedom.
Wednesday the state, in confirmation of
the declaration made by Mr. Hall at the
opening of the trial, that the conspiracy
formed to murder Miss Ging would be re-
vealed, step by step, from its incipient
stage to the dreadful climax, the tragedy,
presented one of the most startling -phases
of the case, corroborative of testimony
previously given, and completing its chain
of evidence, by placing on the witness
stand Mrs. Lillian Hazleton, a friend of
the murdered woman, who swore that on
the day the crime was committed Miss
Ging declined an invitation to take dinner
with her because she had an engagement
with Mr. Hayward. The words “Mr. Hay-
ward” were used in connection with the en-
gagement referred to for that evening, but
15 minutes previously, in a conversation
between the two women, the name of
Harry Hayward had been mentioned by
Miss Ging, and he had been under discus-
sion by them.
The testimony of Mrs. Hazelton, wholly
unexpected by the defense, and only dis-
covered by the prosecution on Tuesday
evening, was a terrible blow, and created
a decided sensation, as it was the only evi-
dence adduced at the time corroborative
of the testimony of Claus A. Blixt that
Hayward had met Miss Ging on the night
of the murder.
Then came a surprise from the state
which shocked the defense, and which re-
sulted in its asking the indulgence of the
court for time in which to look over the





















THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIUIRDER. 67
case. It had been the intention of the state
to keep the evidence of Peter Vallery, a
hackman, for rebuttal. The state knew that
the defense would try to show that Adry's
story was a fabrication, and that the state
had no corroboration of the story. The
story of the hackman would come in handy
for rebuttal after the defense had com-
mitted itself. It was thought, however, that
it would not be safe, for the reason that
there was no way to lay the foundation,
and they would be obliged to wait for a
chance. So it was put in.
It was an awful blow to the defense. The
story of the hackman made three different
statements introduced by the state, to show
that Harry was trying to secure some one
to commit the murder; Blixt, in whose
case he was successful. Adry and Vallely.
How could the defense prove that they
were all false. Blixt's story they might
assail, yet what possible motive could he
have for telling an untrue story when he
himself confessed to the killing? There
might be a motive in the case of Adry,
but how could a motive be shown in the
case of Vallely 2 He must have told the
truth, and if one of the trio did, certainly
all the stories must be accepted as truth.
Again the gambler's number 13 came into
the trial, for on Wednesday, February 13.
the state rested, and the whole direct story
was told, that awful history of crime and
plot and murder.
The public was almost sick. It had been
satiated with horrible details.
Thursday morning, Feb. 14, John Day
Smith opened for the defense, in a speech in
which he stated that the defense had no
theory. It was an admission of a forlorn
hope. Instead of showing innocence, it was
only going to attack the state. He satis-
fied all doubts however, by stating that he
would not claim that Harry was insane.
He was much saner than Adry. Then the
witnesses followed, with no evidence of im-
portance, until Friday, again the gambler's
unlucky day. At that time, the defense re-
ceived a stab, a vital one from its own
witness, M. D. Wilson whom it after-
wards tried to impeach.
As a cat plays with a more than usually
velvety mouse Mr. Erwin played with this
witness, in anticipation of what was com-
ing. In well rounded sentences he pro-
ceeded with a little preliminaries, and
then, as the witness swore that he was
well acquainted with the Goosman rig,
Mr. Erwin looked mildly at the jury. When
Mr. Wilson said that he had met that rig,
and that Miss Ging was in it on the night
of the murder; that it was going out Lyn-
dale avenue from the north, and that it
turned on to Kenwood boulevard, Erwin
was chipper. When the witness said that
it was about 7:20 o'clock that he met the
rig, Mr. Erwin was fairly beaming. He
was exploding Mr. Blixt's story. He was
revealing the third party.
As Mr. Nye looked at the witness before
beginning his questioning, Mr. Erwin was
so pleased that he reached over and in-
dulged in the luxury of a fresh chew of
his inevitable and perpetual fine cut to-
bacco. Mr. Nye did not ask many questions.
He was evidently prepared to, but the wit-
ness changed his plans. Mr. Nye wanted to
know how many were in the buggy, and
learned that there were two people. Then
he asked, in an apparently aimless kind of
way who the other man was. The witness,
without a change in his voice, without any
exciting motion, very calmly raised his
hand, extended the index finger, and point-
ed straight in the direction of Mr. Erwin.
“That gentleman sitting there, behind
Mr. Erwin, he said.
It was Harry Hayward to whom he point-
ed. Every eye was turned there. The pris-
oner was unmoved. There was a slight rais-
ing of the eyebrows, then the lids dropped
over the eyes for a moment, and a smile
came to his face. That was all.
The audience was differently impressed.
For a time there was an oppressive silence.
It seemed as if the answer had put the at-
torrieys to sleep. Mr. Erwin was the first
to rally, and he began to fire a redirect
which appeared very like cross-examination
of his own witness.
“How does it look, old manº asked
Harry after court adjourned Monday, Feb.
18, as he slapped a friend on the shoulder,
and laughed heartily. He was in good
humor, for the defense had played its
trump card, and had thrown suspicion upon
Adry. Maggie Wachtler, the large featured
stenographer, who had a very bad throat
and could not be heard when she did not
want to be, but who rattled along like a
hayrack over a cobble road when she did
want to, had been on the stand, and her
testimony was the cause of his jubilation.
In the morning the defense had been pre-
pared for a long argument as to the admis-
sibility of her evidence, the state having on
Saturday claimed that she could not tell
what had been communicated to an at-
torney by a client, but the county attorney
surprised everybody by consenting to
admit her testimony, and Blixt was
brought over from the jail to state that he
was perfectly willing she should tell it.
She was too ill to be in court in the morn-
ing, however, and it was not until after-
noon that she was brought on. She was
a lively sick woman. She fully came up to
the expectations of Mr. Erwin in her tes-
timony. She was voluble, positive and
could not be shaken by cross-examination.
She called Blixt a liar, Odell a schemer to
make money out of the county, and As-
sistant County Attorney Hall a bulldozer
and intimidator of women.
Mrs. W. W. Hayward, the mother of
both boys, came into court to hear her
elder son again accused of the crime from
the lips of the typewriter woman. She
took it calmly, although there was a look
of satisfaction upon her face as she heard
the witness testify, and heard how Mr.
Nye failed to shake her. Harry was jubi-
lant, but controlled himself, but often he
would burst out into uncontrollable laugh-
ter as Miss Watchtler would make an un-
* savage thrust at Mr. Odell or Mr.
all.
Miss Wachtler stated positively that at
about the middle of the statement, while
she was taking down Blixts statement in
shorthand, he stated that two weeks be
fore the murder he and Adry put up the
job to kill Miss Ging. Adry told him to
take the iron and go to the place they
had picked out, and if he had any trouble
“Frank” would assist him. Then she said
Mr. Odell had stopped Blixt and told him
he was not to mention Adry in it, and
Blixt had said he thought Odell wanted
him to tell the truth. She stated that her
conscience had troubled her, and she had



68 THE HISTORY OF THE GING: MURDER.
told E. J. McMahon about it, and finally
had gone to the defense. She had spoken
of it to Odell, and after that she and
* had quarrelled, and he had discharged
er. -
Mr. Nye submitted her to a scathing
cross-examination, and the witness was
made to read her notes to the court and
attorneys to see what bearing the words
had upon the rest of the statement. The
witness stated that she had put down the
words “About three weeks before the mur-
der,” and at that point had been stopped
and crossed them out. The cross-examina-
tion and examination of the book did nºt
develop, however, that the line written
and crossed out was written at the top line
of the note book. It had no bearing on the
balance of the story, which followed along
without it before and after, like a smooth
running account. It was shown that in
other places in the book the witness had
not written on the top line at all, leaving
it vacant. The state's attorney believed
that it is peculiar that this line should
come exactly at the top of the page, and
have no bearing on the balance of the
statement, in fact break its connection.
The outcome proved that Maggie was not
believed by the jury, for she was in-
peached by Mr. Odell, and another to
whom she had told strange stories of mon-
ey that could be secured from the defense
for information regarding Blixt.
Harry Goodsell, whom it is presumed was
the man Harry was plotting to kill in Chi-
cago, was used by the defense. He did
not know of Harry's story to Blixt, and
swore that Harry had a large amount of
money in Chicago, he had counted fifty
$1,000 bills. Harry he said, owed him some
money and paid him $100 of the sum.
Tuesday, Feb. 19, there was a lively tilt
between W. W. Erwin and Frank M. Nye,
the contending attorneys. The whole mat-
ter arose out of the evidence of Witness
Grinbell. While he was testifying and in
re-direct, Mr. Erwin tried to have him tes-
tify to an assertion that there had been a
system of persecution aimed at him by
the prosecution ever since he had told
that he knew the matters testified to in
his evidence, in regard to seeing a man
drive away from the vicinity of the West
Hotel with Miss Ging. Mr. Nye objected
to that form of evidence, and the court
sustained him. Then the trouble began to
brew. Mr. Erwin tried his best to have
the whole thing before the jury by hook or
crook, and the court began to be of the
opinion that the great attorney was try-
ing to impose upon it.
Judge Smith insisted that there was no
use in the attorney asking that line of
questions, as he would not permit answers,
yet the attorney went on and insisted upon
asking them, that by innuendo he might
get them before the jury, even though they
were ruled out. Again the court inter-
rupted him and there was a suspicion of
anger in the voice of the judge. Erwin in-
sisted, and wanted to make an offer, where-
at the court burst forth and called the at-
torney down, stating that he should know
better than to ask the questions, because
he had no right to. Mr. Erwin mildly in-
sisted that he thought he had, and then
finally lost his temper.
He arose to his full height, and pointing
his long arm across the table, stated that
he wanted to head off any attempt by the
prosecution to throw discredit upon the
testimony. He made the broad statement
that his witness was being persecuted,
and he wanted to show it. The court in-
formed him that he could not do so unless
he could connect the county attorney or
his office with it.
Mr. Erwin continued his tirade, and in-
sisted that the prosecution was manufact-
uring stuff for the purpose of breaking
down his witness, and he wanted to head
it off by his line of questioning. Mr. Nye
had kept his temper fairly well, but at
this he lost control of himself slightly.
and a trifle sternly stated that he would
show the attorney on the other side of the
table who were doing the manufacturing
before the case was through.
Then Mr. Erwin lost his temper com-
pletely, and for a moment there was a hot
fire of words across the table. At the
close the brows of Mr. Nye were contracted
and his eyes flashed fire. He informed Mr.
Erwin that he would hunt him to the ends
of the earth.
It was becoming decidely interesting,
and the court interfered, and said he would
fine the attorneys if they did not desist.
It was impossible to quiet them at once,
however, Mr. Nye was angry, and though
he kept his seat through it all, his re-
pressed tones were fully as peretrating as
Mr. Erwin’s excited utterances. At the
close of the dispute Mr. Erwin saw how
foolish he had been to incur the enmity of
the court in such an important case, and
apologized by assertin that he did not in-
tend to accuse the county attorney or his
office of any of the acts.
It was the police officers and that de-
partment whom he had intended to charge
with the wrong doing. He was unable,
he said, to trace any of it to the office
of the county attorney. This quieted mat-
ters, and after the noon recess the attor-
ney's met and had an explanation and
there was oil poured over the troubled
Waters.
After the adjournment of the case there
was an immense crowd waiting out side
the court room to see the prisoner taken
to the jail. The good weather had brought
the peopde out in force, They waited until
the tall, carless young man was brought
out in irons and then there was a demon-
stration. Wagons loaded with merchandise
were drawn up around the line of march,
and they were covered with people anxious
to catch a glimpse of the noted prisoner.
After he had passed Fourth street, on his
way to the jail, the cry went up from the
top of a lumber wagon, in a hoarse voice:
“Hang him, hang him.”
The crowd had only been waiting for the
cue, and from all sides, from hundreds of
hoarse throats the cry went up:
“Hang him, hang him.”
The prisoner looked over his shoulder at
the crowd and smiled with that peculiar
sneer which he knows so well how to as-
sume. The cries had evidently not dis-
turbed him, and he went to his prison cell
as gay as ever.
The light from a clear sky that came
through the twelve large windows into the
crowded district criminal court room the
next morning glistened upon many a moist
eyelash as the morning dew glistens with




THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 69
the first roseate blush of dawn from the
t.
ºrs at last in the Hayward trial, and
from the audience. The scent from a hun-
dred perfumes penetrated the dense atmos-
phere of the room, as handkerchiefs were
brought from hidden recesses and applied
to the countless women’s eyes. That crowd
has listened with laughter to tales of hor-
ror, heard with placid composure how
a bright young life had been put out by
the hand of a ruthless assassin, and had
been unmoved; but when that handsome
faced old man took the stand, and with his
frame shaking with nervous disease, told
of the quarrel between his son and wife,
and broke down with sobs from the heart,
at last humanity could say that it need
not blush for its kind, for there was an
answering throb in every heart, and the
fountains were let loose from the hitherto
unyielding eye. It was the saddest mo-
ment of the trial.
One of the most interesting features of
the day was the triumph scored by THE
TRIBUNE, showing that merit will surely
win. In fact, “Have you read THE TRIB-
une?” appears to have become a leading
question of the trial. In the morning
Judge Smith stated to Mr. Erwin that he
might refresh his memory from its pages,
and in the afternoon Mr. Erwin himself
asked the question of a witness, in order
that he might not be compelled to read
over some evidence. The reason for the
questions was plain. THE TRIBUNE has
the only official report of the proceedings,
and the court and attorneys knew that the
report could be relied on as correct in
every particular.
The feature of the day was the several
tilts between Mr. Erwin and the court. The
attorney attempted to introduce his theory
of Adry's insanity and the court would not
let it in except with reference to the facts
he had testified to, and not generally.
Judge Smith said the supreme court had
held that even insane people were compe-
tent witnesses upon points upon which they
were not insane, and his state of mind
could not be attacked generally. Mr. Erwin
wanted a record, and kept repeating ques-
tions until the court was out of patience.
There is scarcely any doubt that the at-
torney was playing to get all the questions
he could before the jury, and the court was
compelled to repeatedly call him down. Un-
der this ruling, it is thought, it will be im-
possible to place the Illinois depositions in
evidence, as the mother was not allowed to
testify as to her own opinion.
Mr. Erwin explained his position to the
court in a most eloquent plea. He stated
that he wished to show that Adry had
often had delusions, and was in the habit
of making great things out of the most
trivial matters. So he had done in Harry's
case, as was evident by telling L. M. Stew-
art of his hallucination, when it was sure
that Miss Ging was murdered afterward.
At this Mr. Erwin grew eloquent, and ex-
plained that he would show that she was
not killed as Blixt had said, that Adry's
mind ran in the same channel as that of
Blixt, and that when he showed that he
would explode the popular belief as to the
murder. The court was firm, and stated
that if the attorney would conform to his
ideas he could put in his evidence, but in
no other manner. The first hitch came at
the morning session, when Mrs. Hayward,
mother of the two boys, was on the stand,
and she was asked as to Adry's monomani-
acal tendencies. Mr. Nye objected to the
questions and the court sustained them on
the grounds that there had been no founda-
tion laid. Mr. Erwin was aghast. He
could not believe his senses. There was a
tilt between himself and the judge, but
the attorney was not allowed to get the
answers. It appeared from what the court
said, that when Adry had been placed on
the stand by the state, the great St. Paul
attorney had neglected to lay a foundation
for collateral evidence as to insanity. Mr.
Erwin took exceptions all through, and
the court ended the matter by stating that
when he laid a proper foundation the mat-
ter might go in, and this decision he rigidly
adhered to throughout the day.
Thursday, Feb. 21, Harry T. Hayward
was placed on the stand, and the crowd
fairly fought to gain admission to the trial
room. Before he was called Mr. Erwin
scored a point by the introduction of a pair
of scales, with which he weighed several
bullets. Mr. Nye stated that Blixtº had not
stated that the bullet he fired was a Colt’s
38 long, but that Harry had told him that
it was a long cartridge he gave him. On
this plea, he tried to rule out the weighing
affair, but the court allowed it. It was
shown that a Colt's 38 short weighed the
same to a hair as the flattened bullet taken
from the head of the murdered Woman.
The crowd was breathless while the weigh-
ing process was going on, and Mr. Erwin
was jubilant when the decision was an-
nounced. Mr. Erwin tried to create the im-
pression that he had never weighed the
flattened bullet before that time. If this
was so it a peared strange that he would
hazard such a point with the opportunity
for his being mistaken. If it had gone
against him it would have been a bad
point.
Nervous, contradictory, uncertain, gar-
rulous, rambling and explanatory.
These words explain the aspect of Harry
Hayward on the stand, testifying to save
his own life. In the morning, when he was
answering preliminary questions in regard
to his life, his gambling habits, etc., he
was concise, perfectly at ease, quick to an-
swer, and made an ideal witness. In the
afternoon, when his attorney began to lead
him into the details of the circumstances
attending the tragedy, he went “up in the
air,” as a horseman would say, and made a
bad impression.
“Too explanatory altogether,” was the
opinion heard on all sides.
In fact, Hayward made such a poor job
of telling his own story that the court sug-
gested that it would be better to get on
with the evidence, and not explain motives
and beliefs so much.
In regard to the insanity theory regarding
Adry, if an expert was to contrast the two,
as far as appearances on the stand was
concerned, it would be Harry who would be
the sufferer. He was nervous, and did not
know what to do with his hands. At one
time they would be adjusting his collar, at
another caressing his knees, at another
helping himself to move a oort in his chair.
At times, in his rambles of evidence, his
voice would sink away until it was hardly
audible, and once had to be cautioned to
speak so the jury could hear him. Hardly





70 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIURDER.
a person in that vast crowd hearing him
believed what he said, judging by his man-
ner of telling the story.
“She was a true and noble girl to the best
of my belief—me and everybody, said the
prisoner in answer to a question lºv Mr.
Erwin, referring to Catherine Gºng. He
was placed on the stand shortly after 11
o'clock, annid the most intense ºxcitement
in the court room. He stepped to the stand
a model of masculine fesh, a perfect piece
of anatomy, perfect in all but the head. Its
lines were weak, the brow receding, the
mouth protruding, the teeth prºminent.
True, his wonderful complexion and smooth
pose of tissue about the facial bones made
º appear handsome, yet the outline was
bad.
He sank his almost six feet of anatonny
into the witness chair, and folded his sin-
ewy biceps across his massive Chest. A.
deep breath showed its wonderful expan-
sion, and then he settled into repose pre-
pared for the question. His voice Caine
clear and pleasant, with a peculiar soft,
purring accent, calculated to charm a sus-
picious listener. He was quick to answer,
accurate at figures and plausible at ex-
planation.
Friday being Washington's birthday and
a legal holiday, court adjourned until the
next Monday, when Hayward was placed
on the stand again, and cºuntire I almost
the entire day. His story was directly in
line with his statement to the cſlicers, but
there were some new features.
His general plan was to swear that ill-
stead of his having planned any killing
with Adry, it was his brother who had pro-
posed all the bloody details of murders to
him. Harry swore that his brother had
told him that he had a mania for doing
criminal acts, and that it was he who had
tried to reason with Adry. Harry Explain-
ed very glibly why he was asking people
how their consciences were. He had been so
shocked at his brother's depravity that he
resolved to sound many other people to see
if the v had - such wonderful conscienecs.
Thus it was that he had questioned Wa-
terman, and the hackman, and even L. M.
stewart, and he dared the state to put Mr.
Stewart on the stand.
In the heat of this line of argument Har-
ry went so far as to admit that every word
the hackman, Vallely, had said, was true.
vallely testified that Harry proposed to
him that he buy his horses, obtained a
price for them, and obtained a statement
from the hackman that he didn't care what
became of them after he parted with them.
Surely this was not necessary in order to
see if the hackman's conscience was as
elastic as that of Adry. It seems peculiar,
also, that in answering a hypothetical
question the hackman should in form Har-
rºy in all seriousness that he could not
swim, when Harry proposed the drowning
scheme.
The prisoner directed his whole energy
in an attempt to throw suspicion upon his
brother Adry. On the whole, he was a
rºuch better witness than he was on Thurs-
day, but there was a reason for it. In his
former testimony he was obliged to account
for his whereabouts the night of the mur-
der, and it was hard work for him, so
much so that he stumbled wonderfully.
Monday he for the most part went over
the ground he traversed with the officers
after the murder, and as he told the truth,
his testimony was short, concise, and to
the point. At intervals, however, he went
back to his old rambling style, when he
was asked anything about his actions pre-
vious to the murder.
Blixt's evidence was read to him that he
might deny the statements therein, and
here again it was smooth sailing for the
reason that he had only to answer yes and
no. There was one peculiar thing in con-
nection with his evidence regarding Blixt.
In parts where the state had corroboration
he invariably stated that Blixt had told
the truth, or that there was some founda-
tion for it, but in other cases he made flat
denials.
There was a scene in the morning which
was enjoyed by the audience. Mr. Erwin
at last managed to get in the evidence in
connection with the alleged hold up on the
road near the lakes, where he states that
Adry held him up while he was driving
with Miss Ging and Miss Vedder. Mr. Nye
spoke up when the question was asked,
and stated that he had no objection to
the evidence going in if the state would
be allowed to show its side of the case.
He wanted to be allowed to show that it
was Harry himself who had planned the
whole affair. -
In a moment Mr. Erwin was dramatic,
and stated in ringing tones that he wanted
it all sifted to the bottom. Then Harry
spoke up from the witness stand, and point-
ing his hand at the state's attorney, in-
formed him that he couldn't prove it, be-
cause he could bring a dozen witnesses to
prove that he had nothing to do with it,
in fact, that such an assertion was impos-
sible. Then Mr. Erwin waxed eloquent,
and Harry waxed eloquent. Mr. Nye look-
ed at them both quietly for a while, and
then asked the witness if he would not
please keep quiet and let the state's attor-
rey talk with the counsel on the other side
of the table.
The court was not quite positive whether
it could let the outside issue be tried. Judge
Smith said he wanted to be fair, and finally
said that the defense might ask the ques-
tions, and the state could open it up on
cross-examination. Mr. Erwin stated that
he was willing, in fact, that he courted it.
Then Hayward stated that he had come to
the office in the Oneida Block one morning
after the holdup, and had seen Adry with
a watch on the table. He recognized the
watch as his own, and then and there ac-
cused Adry of having held him up the night
before, and demanded Miss Vedder's dia-
mond ring. Adry told him that he could
not give back the diamond, as it was in
the hands of others of the gang.
Harry was going to give him up to the
police, but Adry pleaded, and he let him
off. Then Adry told him in response to
inquiries that he had no conscience, and
his crimes did not trouble him. Harry
asked him if his conscience would not
trouble him for robbing his own brother,
and he said it would not. Then Harry
became studious in relation to consciences,
and that was why he had been in the
habit of questioning different people he
knew as to their consciences, in order that
he might see if there was such a thing as
a void conscience. That was why he had
put all sorts of hypothetical questions to
the hackman, Vallery, and to Waterman











THE HISTORY OF T
HE GING MIURDER. 71.
and others. He only wanted to see if there
were any more consciences like Adry's.
During the week several members of the
jury were taken slightly ill, but they kept
to their post. That night Frank M. Nye,
ºne state's attorney, succumbed to an at-
tack of the grip, under which he had been
conducting the trial. and was obliged to
take to his bed. His assistant, Albert H.
ºn took up the case from that point,
and cross-examined the accused, finishing
with him Tuesday afternoon. It was not
a rigid examination, the state being well
satisfied with his direct.
Wednesday Mr. Erwin made a final ef-
fort to get in his insanity theory, for which
he had been playing all along during the
ºrial. He was unsuccessful.
Mr. Erwin and the court held long argu-
ments, and when it was over the attorney
had managed to do what he was striving to
accomplish ever since the trial opened, get
before the jury, in an offer, the fact that
several members of Adry's family had been
insane; that a local physician, Dr. Jones,
had prescribed for a member of the family
for insanity, and that he held that Adry
had been the victim of insane delusions for
years.
Mr. Erwin tried to get on the record a
flat ruling of Judge Smith that the de-
positions from Illinois and the expert tes-
timony were not admissible, but every
time Judge Smith qualified it with the as-
sertion that he could get it all in if he laid
the proper foundation by showing first, by
any act of Adry, that he was insane at any
time during the facts he testified to on the
stand. The court even advised that the de-
fense call Mr. Stewart, and show by him
what Adry's actions were when he told
him of his alleged delusion. Mr. Erwin
passed that over, and claimed he had
proved the basis for insanity by showing
by W. W. Hayward that events testified to
by Adry had never happened. Judge Smith
stated that he had never proved that, and
if he had it would only show that Adry
lied, not that he was insane. If every im-
peaching piece of evidence was evidence of
insanity, he held that the attorney might
show that half the witnesses were insane,
or lay the foundation for it. Mr. Erwin
put Dr. Jones on the stand and showed
that he was willing to testify that Adry
was insane, but his evidence was not ad-
mitted. The court stated that the attor-
ney might try to prove total insanity by
any act at any time, but not partial.
The intense public feeling against the de-
fendant was shown during the argument.
Once, when the court sat down upon Mr.
Erwin in a more than usually forcible man-
ner, and ruled out the evidence, the crowd,
composed for the most part of women,
broke into a wild applause, and the court
became angered. In stern tones he remind-
ed the audience that if it was repeated
in the least degree the room would be
cleared. However, the insanity theory
was out of the case. - -
The case was practically over. Thursday,
Feb. 28, the defense closed with some unim-
portant testimony, and the state began its
rebuttal. It had expected to have some
startling testimony, and while it fulfilled its
promise. it was disappointed in some of
its expectations. Miss Vedder and Miss
Mamie Hale were expected to give testi-
mony, but they had gone out of the city,
as Miss Bartelson had done, not wishing
to be mixed up in the affair. Miss
Hale was said to be able to
state that she saw Harry running
toward the Bartleson residence the night
of the murder, and that he fell upon the
street, he was in such haste. Miss Vedder
was supposed to know considerable about
the hold-up story. They were not secured.
Mrs. Jeanett Hale saw Harry when she was
with her daughter, but could not say that
she noticed him particularly. She was pre-
pared to say what her daughter told her,
but was not allowed to.
One by one the state crushed the slight
defense made, all through Friday, March 1,
until it had hardly a peg left to stand up-
on, and finished it Saturday with a final
burst.
The most sensational incident of the trial
was reserved for the closing day.
“Are you able to identify the man whom
you saw there?” asked the prosecuting at-
torney yesterday. -
“I believe so; yes, sir,” was the quiet
reply of the witness, George W. Jenks, who
stood, pointer in hand, near the large plat
in the court room.
“Who was it?”
“Harry Hayward.”
“You’re a liar,” came abruptly, in a sup-
pressed voice from the lips of Harry Hay-
ward, where he was sitting, his body bent
forward, his eyes eagerly scanning every
movement of the witness. It was the most
impressive scene of the trial. It was the
star performance on the part of the state,
which had kept its most emphatic testimo-
ny for the very last shot at the fortress
erected by the defense.
“That's what James Dugan said,” came
a cold hard voice from the audience.
Harry Hayward had broken down at last.
For months he had kept up that wonderful
calm, that genteel exterior, that smiling
confidence, so perfect that those who
watched him saw and almost doubted the
oaths of men as they looked, almost be-
lieving that it was impossible that this
calm young man could be guilty of the
atrocities attributed to him. The blow
told, however, and as Mr. Jenks, from that
witness chair, stamped him as the man
who had run from that vacant lot at the
corner of Kenwood boulevard and Henne-
pin avenue, at about 7:20 o'clock, Monday
evening, Dec. 3, the last straw had been
heaped upon him, and his imperturbability
broke, with the result that he gave the
audible lie to the witness.
The testimony of Mr. Jenks seemed to
completely upset the complaisance of the
prisoner, seemed to shake his certainty of
an acquittal, and the result showed it.
While he appeared to calm down after the
witness left the stand, it was but the calm
which precedes the storm, and when court
adjourned it broke in all its fury, and upon
the head of Adry Hayward, the defendant's
brother. Then, if the jury could have
heard the oaths that slipped so glibly from
his pallid lips they would have believed the
witnesses who testified that Harry had
used great oaths in talking to them. He
appeared a very demon of hatred, and his
guard kept a watchful eye upon him, stand-
ing very close to his side after the adjourn-
ment was taken.
Adry was sitting some distance away
from him on the other side of the table,







72 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIURDER.
and Harry eyed him closely as he was pre-
paring to leave the court room. Then he
grew restless, and arose to his feet, and
motioned to his attorney. Several news-
paper men and attorneys were standing
about, but Harry did not appear to mind
them in the least.
“It makes me sick to see that — —
— — go free, while I am a prisoner,” he
said. -
“Well, we can’t help that,”
Erwin.
said Mr.
“Well, I want to go and swear out a war-
rant against him,” said Harry. He was
becoming more incensed every moment,
and did not appear to be accountable for
his actions. His face was livid, and his
jaws worked menacingly.
“Keep your temper,” said his attorney,
soothingly, coming close to him and speak-
ing in a low voice.
“I’ll fix the – – – —,” continued
Harry. “Let me swear out a warrant. I
know enough about him to send him to
Stillwater for 10 years, that — — brother
of mine. I want to swear out a warrant
against him.”
A volley of oaths followed, yet Adry had
not heard him up to this time. His attor-
ney tried to pacify him, but was unable to
do so, and the prisoner kept on accusing
his brother of all kinds of crimes, until Mr.
Erwin pushed him into his seat. He
clutched the chair arms, and rage shone
from his every feature. At that time he
was a dangerous man. Just then Adry
passed near him on his way out.
“You’ll be wearing stripes within a year,”
he called out, “I’ll see if I get the worst
of this and you go free. I know enough
about you to send you up for 10 years. I'll
fix you, - – you.”
The raging man paused for an answer,
but his brother only stopped and looked at
him calmly, almost pityingly.
“I can prove that you are a highwayman,
and that you have set five fires; set them
yourself. I’ll live to see you wear stripes
yet,” cried the prisoner, pointing his finger
at his brother, his face fairly livid.
“Harry, I don't wish anything against
you,” said Adry, calmly. “I don't want to
see you wear stripes, and 1 sincerely hope
you will be a free man. I want to see you
acquitted.” -
“If I am you had better keep a deputy
with you the rest of your natural life,”
cried the younger brother. Here the depu-
ties interfered, and motioned Adry to move
on out. He did so, but Harry kept up his
talk and his oaths after he was away, VOW-
ing that he would lay proof of Adry's
crimes before the authorities.
It was a terrible scene, this meeting be-
tween the brothers, and not one of those
who witnessed it will ever forget the sight
of those two, children of the same mother,
arrayed against each other in deadly
enmity. There was no mistaking of the
threat on Harry's part. In his rage he had
warned his brother that it would go hard
with him if he ever was cleared, if he ever
was given his liberty again. Those who
saw the interview could at last see how
that polished man, that intrepid gambler,
could bring himself to take the life of a
human being.
The defense put on some weak rebuttal,
and closed its case Saturday, March 2, after
more than 100 witnesses had been examined
and seven weeks consumed in the trial.
Mr. Erwin had received the following let-
ter, a circumstance that excited him, and
made him ask for an opportunity to exam-
ine the witness, if found. It proved to be a
fake, however:
“Mapleton, Minn.-Dear Sir: I resided on
Tenth avenue north during November, De-
cember and January, and was returning
from a trip in the country on the night of
Dec. 3. I met Blixt shortly after the fatal
shot was fired; in fact, just in time to see
his accomplice leaving the buggy, and,
being an eye-witness of the awful tragedy,
I desire very much to testify if you could
advance enough money to pay my expenses
to Minneapolis. I would come at once.
“IKE WHEELER, Mapleton.”
The great trial was ended, and the ad-
dresses were to begin the next Monday.
Over Sunday the crowd and the attorneys
rested, and the world discussed the trag-
edy. It was Erwin's main theory that
Blixt had told the truth in his first state-
ment, except that it was another man, per-
haps Adry, and not Harry, who had deliv-
ered him the dead body. The fractures to
the skull and the other wounds had been
inflicted before death and before the bullet
was fired. She could not have been so
bruised in falling from a buggy, although
the state's physicians were of the opinion
that she could. -
Monday morning court adjourned until
Tuesday to allow Mr. Nye to strengthen up
from his illness and deliver his closing ad-
dress. Juror S. H. Dyer was very ill. He
had contracted varicose veins during the
long seige, and had to be carried to the
court room Tuesday morning when court
opened. The street and court room was a
mass of humanity. Excitement was in-
tense. Everybody wanted to hear the
great orator deliver his speech.
The prisoner who stood accused of the
murder of Catherine Ging had his hardest
trial that day, and his nerve was tested
as it had never been before.
The vibrating voice of the county attor-
ney rang through that crowded court
room the eyes flashed from the pale face
as he faced Harry Hayward, and told how
the accused had been seated in the Grand
Opera House looking at the play, the
smile upon his face only reflecting the
fiendish laugh at his heart. He recited the
immediate scene of the tragedy, and told
how the bullet had crashed through the
skull of Hayward's victim.
Paler and paler grew the face of the
prisoner, until it seemed an ashen hue,
with just a spot of color upon the cheek
bone.
ness came out of his hair, the lids droop-
ed over his eyes. He was in an agony. The
ringing words, the stinging denunciation
of the county attorney had reached that
stubborn heart as none other had done,
and he was at last moved to something
other than rage. For just a moment the
Could it be
moisture gathered in his eye.
that there was to be a tear, the first that
he had shed? Was that firm, undaunted
spirit to compliment the wonderful oratory
His breath came in quick gasps, the
muscles of his face twitched, the smooth-
of the state's attorney by shedding one
tear for the sake of the woman he had
professed to love? For just a moment the
dewy moisture glistened there, and then
vanished, dried up, called back from being











THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 73
by the fierce source whence it sprung.
At one point Mr. Nye quoted to show
that the proper picture to draw of the
criminal who would do such a deed was
that of a man in repose rather than the
raditional fierce villian. As if impelled by
some unseen hand, the prisoner leaned
back in his seat, choked back the rising in
his throat, and, folding his arms, looked
at his tormentor, a typical illustration of
what the county attorney had just de-
scribed. -
It was a wonderful argument, and a won-
derful day, although with no exciting feat-
ures. The crowd in the afternoon was tre-
mendous, and clamored for admission until
the room was filled to overflowing, and
those who entered were not disappointed.
The very physical weakness of the county
attorney made it imperative that he con-
fine his speech to one day, and he was
therefore obliged to cut his review of the
evidence short, for such a mass of it would
require a week to sum up carefully. The
speaker was so weak that he was com-
pelled to take a few rests during the day,
and at times he clung to the table with
one hand for support. Yet it was a mas-
terly speech. He opened up his vast store
of words at times for a few monents
and charmed his auditors, and reserved
some of his force for the peroration, which
was all too short to please his auditors.
For 15 minutes the room was filled with
beautiful similies and effective word paint-
ing. From the keenest denunciation he
descended to the most touching appeals.
From tender allusions he soared to the
sublime, and the room rang, the hearts of
that vast audience throbbed in unison, at
his vibrating words. For 15 minutes there
was oratory such as the people had never
heard, so tender, so accusing, so denuncia-
tory, and then at the last, as he delivered
the case to the jury, there were tears in
the flexible voice as he exhorted the jury
to do as God willed, and stand by their
consciences in the rendering of a verdict.
At the close there was the most spontane-
ous burst of applause ever heard in a Hen-
nepin county court room. Mr. Nye sank
into his seat, and received the congratula-
tion of his friends, first among whom was
his antagonist, W. W. Erwin, who heartily
complimented him upon his magnificent ef-
fort. Large hearted, unselfish as ever, the
great attorney gave his meed of praise to
the man he was to contend against.
He had talked for five and one-quarter
hours. -
“Adry and I put up the job to kill Miss
Ging, and agreed if we got caught to lay
it on Harry.”
Upon this text, the reported words of
Claus A. Blixt, and part of the testimony
of Maggie Wachtler, W. W. Erwin on
Wednesday reared his defense as presented
to the jury in his last appeal for the life
of his client.
A family torn asunder, brother against
brother, aye, even so, for the Hayward
family stopped not at sacrificing Adry, the
older son, in an effort to save the younger.
Harry, the pet of the family. All through
the livelong day the Tall Pine of Minne-
sota labored with the jury, winged his Pe-
gasus to flight, filled that crowded court
room with eloquence, seared the hearts of
men with fierce words, hurled invectives
in the teeth of the prosecution, in order
that the jury might have a suspicion that
it was Adry and not Harry who was at
the bottom of the deed, that it was Adry
and Blixt who had killed Catherine Ging
for her money, and that the testimony of
the prosecution was a tissue of lies, to
hide the real criminal and place the noose
about the neck of the martyred brother.
The testimony of Maggie Wachtler was
the foundation for this idea, and the at-
torney labored upon it, used the words of
Blixt himself, wrought upon the fear of the
jury, shuffled the evidence, played his
cards, staked his all, and laid before the
jury the theory of his defense, that it was
Adry Hayward who was the criminal, the
human tiger, and Blixt who was the cun-
ning rogue, the intelligent villain who had
managed to suit his evidence to the needs
of the state.
A half day was spent in the exordium,
and three full hours in explaining the evi-
dence of Blixt, to show that it was he
who had planned the murder with Blixt,
and Blixt who was secreting him and using
every endeavor to save his neck, and place
the noose about the devoted throat of
Harry Hayward.
The Hayward family, which had been ab-
sent during the talk of the state's attor-
ney, came into court to lend color to the
words of the attorney for the accused.
There was W. W. Hayward, feeble and
palsied, his wife, stern and placid, with
her sister and several female friends. They
took seats close by the chair of the prison-
er and waited for the opening of the pro-
ceedings.
W. W. Erwin finished his plea Friday
morning, taking less than the hour he had
promised the court he would consume. This
was mainly due to the fact that he was ill,
and that his voice had almost totally failed
him. For that reason the beautiful closing
the public had expected was not forthcom-
ing, and after a very short flight of fancy,
just as the audience thought the attorney
was about to fill all hearts with his elo-
quence, he ceased, the voice died away and
he stated that he was done.
In closing he said that the prosecution
was the most monstrous in the history of
crime. It was not chargeable to any one
man. It was many mistakes which had
brought the hellish tidal wave of human
anger. He was there to protest against it,
to set his face against the breaker, coming
from hell itself. If the wave of monachism
should bear him down, he would say, as
did Warwick with his last breath, “Fight
on, my merry men.” There had been a
tremendous pressure brought upon the
jury, but he hoped they would not be
turned like chips upon the ocean.
The speaker's voice was gone, and he
could not close with his usual warmth and
fire. His language was beautiful, but he
could not give it force. Even when he said
that if the jury was to be moved by the
perjurers of the state, then the statues of
justice should be taken from the domes
of the court house and substituted there
the hag of hell, he was weak and his voice
broken. He referred to the stars and
stripes, Washington, Lincoln, and all the
rest in flowing words.
“I leave my client in the jury's hands,”
he said, “their judgment, their conscience,
and you, gentlemen of the jury, are in
the hand of God. You are the conscience



4. THE HISTORY OF THE GING MIURDER.
of this matter.
betray it!”
The battle was at an end, and the calm,
cold, deliberate tones of Judge Smith broke
the silence in that deliberate, that unsym-
pathetic measure of law, the charge to the
jury, at 10 o’clock.
Mr. Erwin took no exception to the
charge, and nodded his head as if well
pleased with it. At 10:50 Officers Wahl
and Anderson were sworn, and the jury
retired with the exhibits to the jury room.
Then there came a look of relief to the
faces of those 12 patient men in the jury
box, as the time came for the case to be
submitted to them. Not once did an eye
glance at the defendant, who sat there,
placid, calm, unmoved, almost careless of
his own fate. It looked almost as if he
was armed even against the worst that
could come, so coolly did he lean back in
his chair and meditatively stroke his blonde
mustache. The nerve was all back to him.
He was perfect master of himself, and if
beneath that calm exterior there lurked
the least fear for the result, the least con-
ception of the dark cloud that hung over
him, he did not give an exhibition of it,
and his look baffled the most astute ob-
server. He did not even take the trouble
to look at the jury as it filed out to its
jury room. He was apparently uninter-
ested. The crowd wanted to wait in the
room, but that was not allowed. The
sheriff ordered the public out, and with
reluctance it left the room, but not the
street, for about the building it hung,
satisfied to wait and see if there would not
be a speedy verdict. Gradually it thinned
away and as the noon hour approached
and no verdict was rendered, it dwindled
to a few individuals, who could not be
daunted upon being in at the death.
In the jury room all was quiet. On the
outside were the guards, alert and watch-
ful. Behind the oaken door the voices of
the twelve could only be heard indistinctly
as they weighed in the balance the evidence
of the more than 100 witneses.
“I expect to be free in two hours,” said
the prisoner, as he left the room.
The defendant was taken back to his
cell in the jail and the judge went home
to dinner. W. W. Erwin left for his hotel,
ill, to place himself under the care of a
physician, leaving the case in care of John
Day Smith. Mr. Shumaker superintended
the delivery of the exhibits, with Albert
H. Hall for the state. Mrs. W. W. Hay-
ward, her sister and a lady friend waited
for a half hour for their carriage, and
gradually the room cleared and was left
alone, save for the presence of the waiting
newspaper reporters and several police of
ficers. The minutes wore away; a chosen
few were allowed in the court room, but
the public for the most part was denied
admission. It was not thought proper to
have the crowd in the court room when the
verdict should be returned. There was
quiet, though repressed, excitement shown
by the public, but the people were quieter
than they had been during the trial. Some-
thing of the seriousness of the affair had
come to the crowd some idea of what
must be the feelings of that waiting human
being in his lonely cell, awaiting the ver-
dict of that august body upon whose de-
cºsion hung his life or death, his liberty or
his neck.
Beware that you do not
The long trial was over, but not the
interest. That had reached its tidal mark
and all over the city, all over the state,
all over the world, millions awaited the
news that should tell what way the bal-
ance scales of justice had turned, as it
was poised in the hand of that pale, tired,
sick, earnest jury, that “bulwark of civil-
ization.”
The hours wore away and still the world
waited.
Liberty or death? Which should it be?
And the answer canne: DEATH !
It was a momentous morning, it was an
hour to be remembered forever by the few
who were present when that verdict came
in. It was precisely 11:08 o’clock when that
tired jury took the charge from the court
and filed to its room to do its duty accord-
ing to the evidence. Exactly three hours
afterward, at 2:08, there was a knock on
the door of the jury room. Deputy Wahl
ran to the door and, with anxious face,
whispered an order. The jury had agreed.
They were going for Judge Smith.
The judge was in his room, and came over
to the court room at once. He issued an
order at all the doors that not a person
was to be let in or out of the court room
until he gave further orders, and then he
mounted the bench and court was called to
order. The state's attorney and the at-
torney for the defense were sent for, and
then that small party, of not more than 20
men, waited for the verdict. There were
two ladies in the room, but none of the rel-
atives of the prisoner were present. The
jury was brought into the room, and took
its seat. Then there was a wait until the
proper parties should be present.
The silence was impressive, oppressive.
It seemed as if there was a terror over all.
There was hardly a man in that room
who did not feel his nerve shaken. Even
the judge fingered his law books, and was
evidently impressed. The newspaper men
made ready for their paper and pencils,
and only the rustling of the leaves of the
tabs broke the silence. Those who talked
did so in whispers. Every minute seemed
10 to that waiting party, and ever and anon
giances were leveled at the entrance door,
to catch a sight of the prisoner as he was
brought in.
Attorney Shumaker was the first on the
scene, and he was followed by Albert H.
Hall, who had fought the battle of the
state so well under Mr. Nye, his chief, and
who had taken up his chief's mantle when
sickness had forced him to thrown it off.
At 2:25 John Day Smith came into the
room, having made great speed. He was
anxious and a trifle pale. Such a speedy
agreement boded ill for his client.
At 2:28 the prisoner came in under strict
guard. There was a look into the room
from the outside as the door opened, and
then just for one step his walk was uncer-
tain. He stiffened up, and came in with a
firm step and stern face, his brows con-
tracted, but there was not a tremor. His
fine form sank into the seat after he had
gracefully removed his overcoat. He ad-
justed his collar with one hand, and then
looked at the court.
The court made a motion to the clerk,
Deputy H. L. Kobler. The deputy cleared
his throat, but there was a slight tremble
to his voice.



Tºp History or THE GING MURDER.
*Gentlemen, have you agreed upon a ver-
dict?” -
There was a moment of silence, and then
Foreman McNeill answered:
“We have.” -
The clerk took the paper, and every eye
was trained as he opened it, and handed
it to Judge Smith. Upon the face of the
stern judge there was not a change of
expressior.
He handed it back to the clerk, who
glanced at the prisoner, and then read.
“We the jury in the above entitled cause,
find the defendant”—there was a catch in
his breath—“guilty as charged in the in-
dictment.”
There was a silence of death. Every eye
was riveted upon the prisoner. He did not
finch. He took it more coolly if possible,
than he had taken any one of the exciting
details of the trial. He was absolutely un-
moved. It almost looked as if he had felt
certain of the result. There was only a
moment of silence and then the jury was
polled, and every member of that jury an-
swered in firm tones that his verdict was
guilty. -
Albert H. Hall stepped before the court
and moved for immediate sentence, Mr.
Smith wanted a stay, and the court prom-
ised it, stating however, that the prepara-
tion for an appeal could be made after
sentence. However, he gave until Monday
before sentencing, as Mr. Erwin was shown
to have gone to St. Paul and taken to his
bed in consequence of his sickness. Then
that little crowd broke up, but not until
Judge Smith had complimented the jury
upon its patience and its work, and stated
that it was undoubtedly a consciencious
verdict.
"In two hours I will be a free man.”
Thus said that remarkable man less than
three hours before a jury of his peers gave
the lie to his words, and placed its seal
upon the word “guilty.”
Free! Yes, free, to be alone with his
thºughts; free to wait day after day in his
cell in the county jail, watching the long
shadows cast athwart the steel Covered
floor from the grating of his prison; free
to count the days as they go all too swiftly
by; free to pace his cell during the weary
months, until finaly he is startled, until
the blow of the first hammer that falls
upon the wood of his scaffold falls upon
his very brain. Free! Aye, free to die:
free to expiate his fiendish crime, danging
º the hemp and timber of his adopted
There had been but one chance for Harry
T. Hayward, accused of aiding and abet-
ting in the murder of Catherine Ging, to
escape the hangman. It was when a bill
had been presented to the state legislature,
having for its purpose the abolishment of
the death penalty in Minnesota. That bill
º vºted down, and his last chance for
ife, his last opportunity for living until
the hand of his Maker should see fit to
take him away from the theater of his
ºne, was gone. Money almost unlimited
given by a doting father, counsel the most
able that the country could furnish him,
a judge fairer than the fairest, all had
been given him, and yet that “bulwark of
human liberty,” as his counsel called it,
the American jury, had “let loose the com
mon hangman.” All of the trial is over
phrases, in an attempt to terrify them into
for the public; all of life is over for Harry
T. Hayward.
For 11 long hours W. W. Erwin had stood
before that jury of 12 men, and poured upon
them the brilliancy of his thought, the
thunders of his voice, the terror of his
the fear that they might make a mistake,
that they might be condemning an innocent
man, and that their whole future would be
haunted with the ghosts of the dead, if
they should find against him. Yet, they
fearlessly, remembering the evidence, had
answered “yes,” as the roll call was read
by Deputy Clerk Kobler, and with the eyes
of the defendant upon them, their tones
were firm, their bearing that of fearless
men, men who were not to be swerved
from doing their duty in the light of the
evidence they had heard. -
“Guilty,” was their verdict, and in that
one word that jury said that Harry T.
Hayward, Maggie Wachtler and George
Grindall had lied. In that one word it had
said that Claus A. Blixt, Adry Hayward.
M. D. Wilson, George W. Jenks, Mrs. Ha-
zelton and Louise Ireland had told the
truth. In that one little word was boiled
down the columns upon columns of evi-
dence that had been taken, the words of
more than 100 witnesses sworn on both
sides. It sustained the theory of the state,
contradicted the dozen of theories of the
defense. It ended the suspense, it placed
the seal of the great commonwealth of
Minnesota upon the opinions of the prose-
cuting officers, it showed how futile was
money and brains against the ends of jus-
tice. Six letters of the alphabet told the
story of seven weeks of labor under which
more than one worker succumbed to dis-
ease. -
All that night the convicted man lay
awake in his cell. All the next day he
waited for his coming doom, all day Sun-
day, and through the nights, he passed the
hours apparently unmoved. He talked with
newspaper men, stated that he was inno-
cent, and exhonorated the jury from blame-
They were justified by the evidence. Yet
he was innocent. He had no hope except
that the guilty man, stung by remorse,
might come and confess that he was Blixt's
accomplice—confess that he was that third
man.
The world was excited, but it applauded
the verdict, and complimented the jury.
Everywhere, a few seconds after the ver-
dict was in, the wires flashed the news from
state to state and from continent to con-
timent. Harry Hayward had been convict-
ed, the murder of Catherine Ging was to
be avenged.
Monday morning came.
“Death by the noose.”
The solemn words from the mouthpiece
of the law were spoken, and Harry T. Hay-
ward, the convicted murderer, the man
whom the jury of 12 men said was guilty
of having murdered Catherine M. Ging, by
means of an accomplice, passed the weary
hours in his cell guarded day and night
by the sheriff.
Leaf by leaf the story of that mis-spent
life had been turned in the book of fate,
chapter by chapter had been reached, and
another step was taken toward the word
“Finis,” which is written against the life
of the pet of his family, the gilded gambler,
the fiend at heart. Months will pass away,





76 THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER.
months of agony for that stubborn heart,
and then in all human probability the
noose of the hangman will be adjusted
about a black-capped figure, the trap will
be sprung, and that muscular frame will
quiver in the throes of death—the vital
spark will leave the body, and the soul will
mount to that forum of certain justice, the
throne of the Great Judge.
Calm, cool, full of nerve, careless, almost
laughing, the condemned man took his sen-
tence. If he had been going to a ball he
could not have appeared calmer, and not
one thing betrayed emotion, except perhaps
the fact that his usually smooth hair was
standing wiry and erect upon some parts
of his head. He stood in that court room
without a parallel in the annals of crime,
for his wonderful character, his unmatched
nerve and buoyancy of spirits.
A crowd of 2,000 people were disappointed
in the extreme. It wanted to be in at the
death, and the court room at Labor Temple
was packed, and thousands waited outside.
In some way the crowd became suspicious
that they were to be cheated, and shortly
before 10 o’clock there was a rush for the
court house by the people waiting outside,
but officers stood at the doors leading to
the small criminal court room. There was
where the sentence was to be passed. Only
a favored few gained admission. The grand
jury was there, and the principals were al-
lowed to enter. -
Julia, Ging, the twin sister of the mur-
dered woman, and her niece, Miss Ireland,
were present, satisfied that the murder was
to be avenged. W. W. Erwin, Mr. Shu-
maker and John Day Smith, with Mr.
Sweetser, Hayward's attorneys, were on
hand, and Assistant County Attorney Hall
came in later. The crowd outside grew in
numbers, and a half hour passed before the
prisoner was brought from the jail across
the alley to the court house. A yell from
the crowd greeted him. He walked in firm
and unmoved. It was only a part of the
general program, and it did not effect him
in the least. His attorneys greeted him
with a clasp of the hands, but with few
words.
W. W. Erwin moved for an arrest of
judgment, stating the only statutory
grounds that the indictment did not state
a crime in the degree charged. It was
purely formal. He also stated that he
would move for a new trial on the satutory
grounds; also that there had not been a
fair trial for the reason that the court was
terrorized during the trial.
Judge Smith took exceptions to the re-
mark of counsel, and denied that he was
terrorized in the least. Mr. Erwin apolo-
gized, stating that he did not mean the
court in person, but the forum itself. Then
there were arrangements for the argu-
ments, which were set to take place on
March 30. It was decided that the defense
should prepare its case and hand it to the
state's attorney by March 23, and that the
court should receive it on March 28. This
would give Judge Smith time to look it
over. The motion for the arrest of judg-
ment was denied, and Harry T. Hayward
was called to the bar of justice.
He arose, faced the court calmly,
looked with mild eyes at his judge.
“Harry T. Hayward, have you anything
to say why sentence should not be passed º'
asked Judge Smith.
and
“Only that I am innocent, in spite of the
testimony and verdict,” was the calm reply.
Judge Smith looked at the handsome
young man sadly for a moment, then in
feeling tones stated the case. The prisoner
turned half around, and faced the crowd
while it was being delivered, in precisely
the same position he had listened to the
reading of the indictment months before.
Judge Smith reminded him that the jury
had been a body of intelligent, conscienti-
ous men, and had found its verdict even
without consultation together. Neither they
nor he had anything to do with the case
except to follow out the law. For himself
he was opposed to capital punishment, but
that could not interfere with his duty.
Then the voice faltered, and the large
tender heart of the judge was revealed
Fully three minutes passed.
“It is the judgment of this court that
you be taken from here, and confined in
the common jail,” he said, “and that after
the period of three calendar months, and
upon the warrant of the governor, you be
taken thence to a place designed and there
hanged by the neck until you are dead.”
The crowd was noiseless, the twin sister
of the murdered woman gave a flash of
the eye. Vengeance had come. The pris-
oner smiled, and nodded his head, much as
he would have done if he had lost $1,000
on the turn of a card. Then he took his
seat. The crowd again yelled as he was
taken back to jail, and all was over.
The great trial was over, and a wonder-
ful character had been shown to the world,
a character against which the Jekyll-Hyde
dual character was more than reproduced
in real life. The crowd dispersed, but not
to forget the case, which was to form food
for discussion for years to come.
The character of that most wonderful
man was the subject for discussion among
expert physicians on nervous diseases
throughout the country, and there were
several theories of insanity. Some physici-
ans stamped him as a confirmed opium
eater, and gave lengthy printed opinions
on the subject. They wished to account for
his nerve. One celebrated physician in that
line, argued in an interesting strain, worth
producing. He said:
“I did not have an opportunity to ob-
serve the conduct of the accused during
the trial, but if what I have been told by
physicians who saw him then, and what
I have read in the papers regarding his
demeanor, is true, I am firmly of the
opinion that he is what is known to nerv-
ous specialists as a ‘morally defective' per-
son. By this we mean one who does not
contemplate the act of committing murder
with the horror which it produces on peo-
ple who are not morally defective. To
them human life has little or no value.
They look upon the taking of human life
much as we do upon the act of slaying a
steer, for instance. They think the act is
necessary for their happiness, and they act
accordingly. The fact that the commission
of the crime is sometimes procured or
effected through another party does not
prove that the instigator is aware of the
enormity of his offense. Because he is
morally defective it does not follow that
he has no cunning. Generally they know
the punishment which is apt to follow the
act, and they endeavor, often, in commit-
ting it to so cover up their tracks as to










































THE HISTORY OF THE GING MURDER. 77
prevent the infliction of the penalty. Some
insane people, indeed many of them, are
exceedingly cunning. They often play
tricks the ingenuity of which is marvelous.
This is well known to all persons who
have had experience with them.
“Morally defective persons belong to de-
generate families. If they intermarry with
better blood the progeny may prove to be
better than the progenitor. If they inter-
marry with people of their own class the
result is ultimately complete insanity in
their offspring. It is the doctrine of hered-
ity. I know this idea has not yet found
much of a foothold in this country, but it
is now held to be true by many of the
best scientists of Europe. Among eminent
men who advocate it is Dr. Lombrose, the
celebrated nervous specialist of Florence.
He has given much patient thought and in-
vestigation to the subject, and his opinion
is entitled to much respect. At the inter-
national medical congress held in Rome a
short time since he lectured upon the sub-
ject in a most interesting and convincing
manner. He undertook to demonstrate
from the conformation of many skulls of
criminals which he had in his possession,
and from photographs of the criminals
taken during life, that they bore certain
marks which should enable scientists to
point out a criminal almost at sight. These
indications, he said were numerous and
easily discoverable.
“The question of the punishment of this
class of criminals to which I think Harry
Hayward belongs is a matter of import-
ance. Society in inflicting punishment for
crime is not, or should not be, actuated by
feelings of revenge. The blood of Miss
Ging, for instance, does not cry aloud to
me for vengeance. What I want, what al-
most every person wants, is protection
against the perpetrator. We do not wish
to meet the same fate, nor do we want it
inflicted upon our friends. It follows, how-
ever, that if the criminal is morally de-
fective or that the desire to commit crime
comes to him through inheritance, he is
not wholly responsible for his act, and
hence should not have the extreme penalty
of the law inflicted upon him. What should
be done with him is to restrain him during
his natural life.
“As to Harry Hayward, I feel free to say
that it would be impossible for a wholly
Sane man to conduct himself as he is said
to have done during his trial and since.
It is not an exhibition of nerve, but the
absence of it and the substitution of a
nature which prevents him from realizing
the enormity of his crime.
“Not all criminals are morally defective,
nor are their lawless traits hereditary.
They are often made criminals by educa-
tion; by being taught that society is their
enemy, and the officers of the law cruel
persecutors. They are taught that the
law of meum and teum is unjust; that the
proper thing to do is to appropriate that
which does not belong to them. Everybody
realizes the force of early education and
the power of habits. It is not easily es-
caped from.”
However, perhaps the condemned man is
the only one who knows the secret. How
a man physically such a weak coward
could be such a man mentally, so impervious
to all things human, to all the terrible fea-
tures of the trial for his life, will perhaps
remain a mystery forever.
The whole tragedy was told, the life his-
tory of two human beings was ended, and
forever will remain the lessons they have
taught.
The road to ruin is short, the way
smooth, the speed certain. It has many
roads, but only one Mecca. Oh! you who
read, beware for yourself; take the lesson
to your dear ones; keep it forever before
your thoughts.
The way of the transgressor is not hard;
but the wages of sin is DEATH.





-

PART II.
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
OF THE
ENTIRE HAYWARD TRIAL.
Opening Address of Assistant County Attorney
ALBERT H. HALL.
MR. H. ALL’s OPENING.
Able Presentation of the Case by the
Assistant County Attorney-
The following is the opening address of
Assistant County Attorney A. H. Hall:
“May it please the court: Gentlemen of
the Jury:
“With about all the caution that wise and
discerning counsel would employ to prevent
the choice of any biased, prejudiced or un-
worthy men, you have been selected out of
more than 200 drawn from the men of this
county to try and determine the fateful is—
sues of this case. In your several examina-
tions that have in their caution searched
into the most innermost secrets of your
moral and intellectual life, you have each
and every one of you satisfied the state
and the defense that you were men fair and
true without any malice, and without any
prejudice, and in the presence of God and
the people of this county you have solemnly
sworn to well and truly try this case, and
a true deliverance of your verdict give be-
tween the state and this defendant.
“As you sit here today you represent, aye,
more than that, you verily are the judg-
ment, the heart and the conscience of this
people. In to your charge is about to be
entrusted, not alone the issue of life or
death, to the citizen who is on trial before
you, but rather more far-reaching than
that, you are charged, and in the wider
sense entrusted, with the perpetuity of an
orderly, sure and righteous administration
of justice in this county, dear and sacred
to every citizen here, and sacred to you.
“The crime for which this defendant
stands charged before you is one peculiar-
ly heinous and revolting. The shock of it
has struck throughout the whole of our
moral and social life. It has shaken all
our foundations, and disturbed the deepest
centers of our humanity. Peace, good or-
der throughout a whole state, solicitous in
the hearts of its citizens, awaits for your
verdict.
“Gentlemen, in the presence of an issue
so far-extending and so stupendous as this
seems to be, if in comparison with its aw-
ful consequence, I should not for a moment
think of my own feeble talents, and the
slight ability I bring to the performance
of the task devolving on me, I should shrink
beneath the responsibility, and utterly fail.
“But I am impressed with the deep con-
viction that the issue, the burden and the
conduct of this whole trial transcends the
bounds of any professional ambition. It
does not rest upon any one man, or upon
any one side of this case to say what this
verdict shall be. Behind and beyond this
honorable court and this assemblage, this




2 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
and them. I have surely no malice,
case must stand and will be tried by that
Higher Court of conscience in the face of
the civilized world; and before the very
judgment seat of God.
RENDER STRICT JUSTICE.
“And when such a cause stands for trial,
and when such issues confront us to state
and to defend, to counsel on either side,
to the whole community, and to all the
civilized world, there can be but one pur-
pose and one object common and akin to
them all; and that is, that you, gentle-
men, in hearing and determining this case
shall earn righteousness, the actual and
the veritable truth that lies at the bot-
tom, and render strict and exact justice.
“For myself I will say this at the outset,
that whatever part I have or shall take in
the presentation of this case and the gath-
ering together of the evidence which the
state will produce before you, I have no
other object in my own mind than the dis-
cernment of the truth, and the enforcement
of justice. In my life I have known the
defendant on trial here. I was not his per-
sonal friend, but I have been his acquaint-
ance. The circle in which he moved and
that which was my own have not been the
same, but as a young man, growing in the
community with a future before him, and
so far as I knew, bearing an honorable,
almost an enviable reputation, I have
know and respected him. His father and
his family I have also known; and for him
but
rather the deepest sympathy.
“As to my honored chief by whose side
I am proud to labor in the cause of the
state, I know no feeling abides within his
bosom but that of an absolute and sincere
desire to know and to do strict equal and
exact justice, without fear and without
malice. But I will say for myself, gentle-
men, and I am not without a deep solici-
tude that nothing shall occur in this case
by which justice shall miscarry. And that
a deep and heinous wrong done the state,
when it shall have been proven to your
satisfaction, as I believe it will be, to an
absolute demonstration, shall meet the
punishment it deserves. That no failure
of the state to do its duty shall make you
fail in yours.
“I am further comforted in this, that if
the zeal of the state in the deep convic-
tion we feel, having known and consid-
ered the testimony which in the days to
follow you shall hear and know, and if
knowing now in a sense what you will
know perhaps, in its fullness and comple-
tion, two weeks hence, you think, per-
haps, the state is over-zealous, is over-
stepping that fair boundary which should
mark an officer of the state seeking only
to do his duty, I am mindful of this, that
any over-zealousness that should appear on
the part of the state is more than matched
by the ability, the shrewdness of the de-
fense here employed. This defendant
stands here bulwarked by counsel whose
ability is not surpassed within the broad
domain of our land. For my own part, I am
glad that this is so. The genius of a de-
fense that requires that all the charges of
the state shall be proven, and proven to
the last letter, is but an additional bul-
wark standing to defend the innocent
whenever they shall be wrongfully charged
with crime. And in the case attracting so
great an attention as this, I am glad the
DEFENSE IS AIBLE
and can produce her counsel so well equip-
ped to guard his every interest, and to pro-
tect any wrong, even inadvertently sought
to be enforced against him. No better de-
fense for Harry Hayward could be pro-
cured. All that wisdom and money could
devise is his, and it is here to meet his de-
fense. And all that the state can put forth,
is more than matched by his defense. But,
gentlemen, this is no contest of counsel. As
I have stated before, this case transcends
all ambition of counsel.
“The honored court which sits to order
this case and to direct its proceedings and
instruct you in the law, sits above all the
clamors, all the prejudice that may come
from the multitude, or may incite counsel
on one side or another. Safe and clear
above the tumult and clash of counsel this
court sits, clear, well defined and distinctly
within the law, without any prejudice, with
out any bias as to this defendant himself.
“Gentlemen, I am persuaded that before
this case is finished the awful load that lies
upon his soul will in reality have but one
desire, and that is that the fatal truth shall
finally be laid open. And if in his life
hitherto he has not learned that God's law
is all-pervading; that nothing lives or is in
all this universe that does not obey the laws
of God, this time and before this trial is
finished, I think he will be willing to learn
the awful truth that whatsoever a man has
sown that he shall also reap; and that as
he has sown in this awful case to the wind,
so he may reap when he comes at your
hands to meet your verdict.
“Gentlemen, I shall attempt to give you
as clearly and in the order we expect to
produce it as nearly as I can the testimony
which the state expects and will produce
before you to prove the charge. You have
in a general way heard stated the charge.
But that we may proceed, and that you
may know the whole charge in its details
which the state expects to prove, and your
verdict is to be based upon the indictment
which is made here, and I wish to read the
indictment.”
(The counsel here read part of
dictment.)
“And the other count is introduced of the
same character, charging Harry T. Hay-
ward directly with murder of Catherine
Ging which it is not necessary to read,
as it is nearly a repetition in another form
of the same charge.
“It is the law of this state, and the court
will so instruct you, that one who aids,
procures, hires or commands another to
commit a crime, whether present or absent,
is as guilty of the offense as he by whom
the act was done, the crime committed.
DEFENDANT THE MORE GUILTY.
“And, gentlemen, the testimony in this
case will show to you, I think, that if, as
between two conspirators and perpetrators
of this horrid crime, there is any degree
of greater guilt, the one over the other,
that the defendant who stands on trial
here today is even more guilty more hor-
ribly and heinously guilty than the red-
handed murderer who fired the fatal shot
that took the life of Catherine Ging.
“And, first, before launching into the evi-
the in-





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
3.
dence, let me say a word, and let us in-
quire who was Catherine Ging? Cather-
ine Ging was a young unmarried woman,
some 29 years of age, well and dearly
known to a large circle of acquaintances
in this city, where she had lived for a
number of years, where she had plied her
vocation as a dressmaker. She had rooms,
dressmaking parlors, in the Syndicate
Block in this city; she was a woman of
unusual force and energy, and by her
thrift and by her energy she had developed
quite an extensive business. The patrons
of her business were among the better
class; the ladies of the best families in our
city went to her for their dressmaking.
By her superior skill, her thrift and her in-
dustry Catherine Ging had laid by some-
thing. She had accumulated a little prop-
erty. She had money out at interest, some
$1,800 or more, I think, she had placed on a
mortgage, loaned on a mill in the town of
Hamil, in this state, and in this county,
upon which, as security, she had the first
mortgage. She had money in the Farmers
and Mechanics' Savings Bank in this city,
the result of her prudence and her sav-
ings. She had a bank account in the First
National Bank. She had an interest, to
some extent, in a small estate, yet unset-
tled, and upon which she had not realized,
at her old home in the East.
“She was a woman of some personal
charms and appearance. You have seen
coming into this court room a sister, a
twin sister, who is said peculiarly to re-
semble her. Catherine Ging was an ambi-
tious woman. She had seen enough of the
broader culture of the people with whom
she came in contact; she had climbed far
up the ladder of progress in her own de-
velopment, and longed for a broader cul-
ture and a wider life. Catherine Ging had
made, or was making, the only mistake
of her life, perhaps, and it is a mistake too
common to all of us. She thought the lad-
der she might climb from her present sur-
roundings into that broader culture and
that better and wider life was a ladder
whose rounds were paved with gold, and
that money would lift her where she longed
to be.
“It was Catherine Ging, thus developed,
thus supplied, that Harry Hayward first
met. Harry Hayward was a gentleman
about her own age, comely in appearance,
surrounded with all the evidences of
wealth; somewhat more cultured, per-
chance, in some respects than she. But he
moved in this circle where money seemed
bliss. With what device and in what man-
ner he first came to her we shall never
know. Certain it is that he came as a gen-
tleman. He came in a way to win pecu-
liarly her confidence. The testimony as
we shall show it to you, gentlemen, will
disclose that by whatever steps he won it,
by some means Harry Hayward won the
absolute confidence of Catherine Ging.
WHAT HAYWARD WAS.
“Harry Hayward was a gambler then.
Harry Hayward had been a gambler for a
long, long time. Whether he produced in
her the impression that his lucky star never
set, and that his wooing of the fickle god-
dess of fortune was always sure to win her
smiles, we cannot know except as their re-
lationship and as the evidence will show
the transactions that occurred between them
will disclose. But he did win her confidence
to such an extent that, little by little, hun-
dred dollars after hundred dollars from
the store of her savings were placed by her
implicitly in the hands of Harry Hayward
for investment; the bulk of it to gamble,
win or lose. That Harry Hayward took this
money and pretended to win, and so won
upon her confidence that he might reach
his hand further into her store, we know
not all the stops, but certain it is that lit-
tle by little he acquired all that Catherine
Ging had.
“It will be shown to you that some time
in August that Harry Hayward with his
brother went to Hamil and sought to in-
duce the payment of the loan held by
Catherine Ging upon that mill; that the
owner could not pay it; that then it was
discovered that by some carelessness or
oversight the mill was not insured; that
Harry Hayward announced his intention
to have the agents of Catherine Ging, as
he called it, jacked up about that insur-
ance; that insurance was immediately
placed; but that a short while after that
with some ecstacy he announced himself
again a lucky dog, or words to that effect,
and said, ‘It always comes my way; that
mill at Hamil has burned, and that money
will be valuable.” That money was real-
ized. Harry Hayward procured a part of
it—$1,000. That went the way of all the
rest. The balance of that money Catherine
Ging placed upon another mortgage
through an agent in this city, and the tes-
timony will disclose that on or about the
3d day of Nevember last Catherine Ging
cashed that mortgage at a discount. Scarce-
ly more than a month had that money
been at interest when her wisdom and her
prudence were further overcome by this
defendant, and he induced her to cash that
mortgage, and she cashed it.
On the 3rd day of November Harry Hay-
ward made a trip to Chicago, staked to
again try his luck at faro. And the money
he took with him, I believe the testimony
will show to your satisfaction, was the
money of Catherine Ging.
“He went to Chicago, he came back pre-
tending to have lost that money. I believe
the testimony will show you that he lost in
Chicago not one dollar! For it chanced that
at that time the city of Chicago was un-
dergoing one of those moral spasms that
seize great communities at times; and a
committee of righteously indignant citizens
were prefering charges against the police
and charges of corruption against the whole
police system were so rife in the city, and
as a result the gambling houses of Chicago
were closed during the days he was there.
Certain it is that Harry Hayward came
back from Chicago really, with a
BIG WAD OF MONEY
in his pocket, which, in connection with cer-
tain particular inquiries, as I shall outline
to you afterwards, he was careful to ex-
hibit. As to what that money was I think
I will show you, and the evidence will show.
to your entire satisfaction.
“But enough in passing. Such in the
main was the character of Harry Hayward;
such was the course, at least, by which he
won his way into the confidence of Cath-
erine Ging. As I said, we shall never know.
the arts, the devices he employed; but
Catherine Ging was an honorable woman.
Catherine Ging was a self-respecting and







4. OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
a respected woman, and Harry Hayward
could have won his way to her implicit con-
fidence by no other means than by those
which at least seemed to her honorable;
and he induced her along the road of in-
discretion which she traveled after him by
playing upon her desires to gain wealth
and to increase her store.
“Ah, it seems, as we look upon it now,
a pitiful and a sad thing that Harry Hay-
ward should select such an innocent per-
son to play upon her credulity and should
hide his devices with the cloak of virtue.
But so it is. Such, gentlemen, was the
character and relationship that had existed
for a long time, extending over a year or
little more and culminating as I have said
in the loan of November last between Cath-
erine Ging and Harry Hayward.
“At about 8 o'clock, half-past 8 o'clock
nearly, in this city, a belated workman go-
ing to his home, alighted from the car
that travels from the intersection of Hen-
nepin avenue and Twenty-ninth street, I
believe, the car that connects with the
ordinary system of the city and runs from
there to St. Louis Park, had just passed
beyond Lake Calhoun, climbing the hill
that arises to the west and be-
yond Lake Calhoun on Lake street, and
had alighted from the car upon the road
which turns at the summit of the hill
on Lake street and goes by another road
to Lake Minnetonka. He had just left the
car and was going down the hill when he
passed a buggy and horse going rapidly,
or running. He was not able to see, dil
not see whether there was an ocupat
in the buggy or not; it was dark. Thus
fleeing figure of the horse and buggy pass-
ed him on the road. He journeyed on a
few rods further in a lonely portion of the
road running through a tamarack swamp,
and there he came across the figure of a
woman lying in the road and a quick ex-
annination disclosed to him the fact that
she was dead–and so it was
WHEN SHE WAS MURDERED.
“There on that lonely road but a moment.
or two before the spirit of Catherine Ging
had taken its flight, ushered without warn-
ing, without thought, on her part, into the
presence of her Maker while the silent
stars looked down in pity from the gray
heavens overhead, and the winds blowing
from the frozen bosom of Lake Calhoun,
sighed her requiem as they passed through
the tops of the tamarack. Erhardt, for
it was he who first found her, hastened to
his home for some assistance, hastened
back to the city and summoned help. A
physician came and found the woman was
dead; her warm blood had oozed or dripped
out upon the hard graveled road upon
which she lay, and under and about her
was a. buffalo robe wrapped. She
was finally picked up and conveyed by
the patrol wagon, which had been summon-
ed from police headquarters, into the city
and tenderly taken to the morgue. The
face was somewhat bloody; the left eye
was bleeding, disfigured. To those who
found her there and to those who convey-
ed her to the morgue, and to those who
came to look upon her lifeless form at the
morgue, no other cause of death was ap-
parent, and there was no other belief than
that it was an accident; that the horse and
buggy seen rushing up the hill was the ve-
hicle in which she had been sitting, and
from which she had been thrown, and the
life had been suddenly snapped out by
the runaway, and how sudden. And from
that time until long past 11 o'clock that
impression prevailed. No one knew to the
contrary; every one who knew the facts
and they were the only ones from whom
any information could be obtained, and
from the evidence that they saw of her
body, nothing else would indicate, nor did
any one believe that her death was other
than accidental. But at 11 o’clock there-
after, sometime after 11 o'clock, there
came to the morgue Coroner Spring, who
had been summoned to view the remains.
He had made some considerable examina-
tion, and finally turning over the face and
removing the eye that partially protruded
upon the cheek, he came upon a piece of
lead, and then found there a bullet; and
turning to the other side he found beneath
the dark black hair and the matted blood
the burned scar of the bullet, and then for
the first time he said: “Why, this is not a
runaway, this is a murder or a suicide;
this woman has been shot and killed.” In-
stantly the word went out about the facts;
the intelligence was communicated to the
police all over the city, and then for the
first time the city was awake to the hor-
rors of the deed that had been done.
ONE WHO KNEW IT.
“But, gentlemen, the testimony will
show to you that long before that word
had been sent, long before Coroner Spring
had lifted the mangled eye and discovered
the fatal bit of lead, there was at least
one man in this community who knew
what had happened. Harry Hayward that
night had gone to the theater; he came
back before 11 o'clock; before his arrival
at the Ozark flats, where he lived, and
where word had come from the livery
stable from which the rig that Catherine
Ging rode in that night had been hired at
a little past 9 o'clock, the horse and buggy,
the lines lying over the dashboard, had
come leisurely into the barn, and there was
blood upon the cushion, and Mr. Goosman,
for he was the liveryman, thought that
some accident had occurerd, some injury
had occurred. The rig was not broken, but
there was blood upon the seat, and the
woman who had gone with the rig was not
there; something had occurred; something
had happened. With some delay he drove
up to the Ozark flats. He had been hunting
around for some time to find out what
had been the trouble, and I believe that he
afterwards learned that a body had been
found out in the road in this locality, but
who it was he did not know—whether a
friend of Miss Ging, or Miss Ging, or who,
he knew not; and that information had
been conveyed to the Ozark. But Harry
Hayward, as he came home and was first
informed that a horse and a buggy—the
horse and buggy that Miss Ging had hired
—had come to the livery stable without
a driver, with blood upon the cushions,
and that there were runnors that a woman
had been found dead in the road, Harry
Hayward said–and the first words that
left his lips were: “Why, that is Miss
Ging: she has been murdered.” He was not
deceived; he knew no accident had ocur-
red. Those who picked up the lifeless body
of Miss Ging might be deceived and others







or tº Haywarp Murºpºrt TRIAL 5
night wander in their impressions, but
Harry Hayward, the first words that left
his lips upon receipt of the first informa-
ion that came to him, said: she has been
murdered. More than that, she had been
murdered for her money. Somebody has
neen trying to do me up. I have been rob:
nea. Instead of feeling some sense of pity,
instead of some kind word or expression of
horror for the fearful taking off of Cather-
ine Ging, the cruel and the selfish instincts
of this man asserted themselves even at
the moment when he was seeking to cast
away from himself the suspicion which
might point toward him, and he said: 'I
have been robbed of my money; Catherine
Ging has been murdered for her money."
CERTAIN KNOWN FACTS.
But following the testimony, gentlemen,
from the time when the body of Catherine
Ging is taken to the morgue and the iden-
tification, as we shall show you by reliable
witnesses, who then and there saw the
dead body of the woman–saw it there and
after it was conveyed to Connolly's under-
taking establishment, where it was simply
prepared for burial. The body was none
other than Catherine Ging's; there is no
doubt about that. We shall show to you
the post mortem made of the remains by
the two deputy coroners of this county.
Carefully, as was their duty, they examined
into the cause of death and made an ex-
plicit and careful autopsy of the remains.
“The testimony will disclose to you that
upon the right side of the head, and di-
rectly behind the ear, I believe it was,
evidently the fatal bullet had entered; that
the gun from which the bullet had been
apparently fired had been held so close
that it had apparently blackened the skin,
as was discernible after the blood was
washed away. The bullet had passed
through the head and lodged back of the
eyes, where it was found by the coroner.
“It will also be disclosed that upon the
right side of the face there was a scar or
a cut, somewhere near the lip; that the
nose had been struck or pressed to one
side; there was also a mark, slight, upon
the outside, I believe, of the temple, but
with a very slight effusion of blood upon
the inside. There was also, when the
scalp was removed, the evidence of a frac-
ture of the skull, a lateral fracture, run-
ning back from toward the front in this
direction. There was also some slight evi-
dence upon one of the arms of a pinch or
a slight effusion of blood, which, however,
gave evidence of being some days old.
“The testimony of the physicians will
disclose to you that the cause of death of
this deceased was the gunshot wound; that
the appearance and the condition of the
fracture and the marks on the face gave
evidence that they had been received
either after death or at the little stage
when life and death is hovering in the bal-
ance, for the reason that there had been
but a slight effusion of blood about the
edges of the fracture, or about the injured
parts. As you, gentlemen, are well aware,
when blood vessels are disturbed, and
when any of the tissues of the body are
torn or lacerated, the circulation of blood,
if it continues, leaves an effusion which
marks and clearly indicates the continua-
tion of the circulation.
THE INJURIES RECEIVED.
“It will be shown to you, and we be-
lieve from the testimony, that those in-
juries were received either after death or
in a little point where life and death hovers
in the balance. And to anticipate and to
save referring again to this, I believe the
testimony will disclose to your satisfac-
tion that the injuries so received, and the
fracture of the skull so received, might be
and naturally were the results of the fall
of the body from the height of four or five
feet, or even from a lesser height, upon
the hard road. We believe the testimony
will satisfy you clearly that these injuries
that were found upon the head of Catherine
Ging, and which I have described, were
the result of the fall as her body was
lifted out of that buggy. As she was
lifted out she fell to the ground, her face
striking on that side and her head striking
here would produce on one side the frac-
ture, and the counter blow on the other
side would produce the injury I have de-
scribed—the injury on the side of the face
that was produced by the hard fall when
she fell.
“Gentlemen, it will further appear to you
in evidence here that not only did Harry
Hayward make the remarks I have de-
scribed immediately upon being advised
that the woman had been found on the
road dead, and that the buggy which Miss
Ging had hired had come back to the sta-
ble without a driver, but that more than
that, on that very night, and in fact in
that very connection, then and there he
began to make inquiries about her life in-
surance, whether it was good; this was be-
fore any one knew anything about any life
insurance. We then shall disclose to you,
gentlemen, and introduce to you evidence
concerning the immediate habits and ac-
tions of Catherine Ging, on the 3d of De-
cember, and immediately preceding it.
“It will appear to you, gentlemen, from
the evidence that on the preceding Wednes-
day night Catherine Ging had obtained a
horse and buggy from the same livery sta-
ble; that she had gone riding in the evening
alone and return the horse alone. It will
appear also that on the preceding Satur-
day night, but three days before this fatal
ride, she had gone out and again had de-
livered to her a horse and buggy and had
returned the horse and buggy. That on the
Monday night, Dec. 3, she had delivered to
her from the same livery stable, at the
ladies' entrance of the West Hotel, this
horse and buggy that she had ; that she got
into the buggy and drove off at about 10
minutes past 7 o'clock. This was
A CONVENIENT POINT
for her to get the horse and buggy, and
Mr. Goosman, the livery man from whose
stable the horse was obtained, had, I be-
lieve, an office or a branch office at the
West Hotel, and there the horse was de-
livered to her.
“These rides, as the evidence will progress
and as I shall attempt to show you before
I close, were a part and parcel of a long
devised and carefully planned arrangement
by which Harry Hayward devised and de-
signed to accomplish this horrible crime,
but by which he laid, so far as he could,
all the plans and schemes which he could
canvass, to divert suspicion from himself,







of ſºcial. STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
and to fasten upon somebody else when
the crime should have been accomplished.
“It will appear that while he himself was
the person who went riding on the Wednes-
day and Saturday nights previous to the
Monday night with Catherine Ging in the
rigs which he had procured, that his in-
fluence and control over her were so great
that by some device and some subterfuge,
we know not what, he had induced her to
pretend that she was not going riding with
Harry, and to give utterances to her as-
sociates of remarks calculated to arouse
the impression that she was out with some
one else and did not want Harry to know
where she was. This is one of many in-
stances to which I shall refer you as I
pass, devices that through a long contin-
ued course of intimacy he had paved the
way to divert suspicion from himself, and
if possible to fasten it upon some innocent
one who might perchance suffer or prove
his innocence of the crime.
“Gentlemen, before the state or the au-
thorities were in search of the evidence as
to who was the guilty man in this murder
which had been disclosed, on the morning
after the fatal murder occurred, Harry Hay-
ward, not under arrest, but openly, pro-
fessed to have life insurance on the life of
Catherine Ging. After some days and
about the time of his arrest, he exhibited
these policies and they will be introduced
and shown to you. We, however, gentle-
men, in the evidence shall show you that
weeks and weeks before this horrid murder
was accomplished, Harry Hayward was a
diligent student of the subject of life insur-
ance; that he began making diligent in-
quiries of various persons, agents of differ-
ent companies, experts who were supposed
to know all the requirements of policies,
the conditions of the various policies and
what was necessary to prove a loss. We
shall introduce to you the men with whom
he had conversed, and the character of his
inquiry. We will show to you that he made
inquiries of the various companies, and fin-
ally ascertained those that would and those
that would not take
lives of women.
“That he, after that time ascertained that
the New York Life Insurance Company
would and did take risks upon the lives of
women. That long before his expression of
any intent to loan any money to Catherine
Ging, as will appear as I progress, he went
with Catherine Ging to the agent of the
New York Life Insurance Company and
made inquiry concerning their policy, and
finally with her made an application; the
details of these several conversations I shall
not attempt to give you. That the applica-
tion and the sum at first was concerning a
policy for $7,000—that she was desirous of
procuring a policy for that amount upon
her life. We shall show to you the steps
progressing in the final consummation, and
the writing of that insurance and the de-
livery of the policy.
“It will be disclosed to you by further
testimony later in the case how it was that
another policy of accident insurance was
subsequently taken out in place of the $7,000
insurance in the New York Life Company.
It was evidently intended at the beginning
to take a policy of $7 000 in the New York
Life Company, and that that was to be and
intended to be the motive of this murder.
insurance upon the
MURDERED FOR THE INSURANCE.
“Further, gentlemen, it will be disclosed
to you as clearly as honest testimony of
man can disclose it to man, that this hor-
rid murder, which was accomplished, was
deliberately designed and carried out for
nothing more or less than the money ex-
pected to be realized upon the death of
Catherine Ging as the result of this life in-
surance. It was a motive, and practically
the only motive for the crime. There was
an incidental motive, as will be disclosed
to you, the relationship between Catherine
Ging and Harry Hayward had grown so in-
timate that talk of marriage had been
broached; whether it had resulted in a
definite and positive agreement on his part
or a fixing of the day, we know not; but
that marriage had been talked of, you will
be satisfied beyond a doubt before this tes-
timony is through.
“Besides that, Harry Hayward had gone
so far into the store of her savings, and
he had kept his tracks so covered from all
inquiry, that a fear that some good ad-
viser might come to her and warn her of
the danger, advise her of the deceit that
had been practiced upon her by Hayward,
and he might be called to account for his
robbery of her under the pretext of gam-
bling. He feared the disclosure that might
come from that. He feared that Catherine
Ging might, at some time, come out from
that unnatural infatuation that he had
woven about her. But that was an inci-
dental motive to his crime. The real mo-
tive was the gain he hoped to reap by her
death.
“It will be shown to you, gentlemen, that
after the taking out of the life insurance
policy in the New York Life Company, he
began to make inquiry about accident
policies; he began to inquire what sort of
proof of death was necessary—whether one
who had been burned in a building so that
recognition of the remains was impossible,
whether he could by indirect proof prove
the identity of the remains and recover on
the loss. And finally, canvassing the mat-
ter among the various insurance com-
panies, he settled on the Travelers Com-
pany, and had Catherine Ging go to the
Travelers Insurance Company, and make
application for a $5,000 policy upon her life,
$5,000 payable on her death and a certain
amount payable in case of an accident.
That policy will be introduced and you
Will read it. It contains a clause that the
company shall not be liable for intentional
injury, inflicted either by the insured or by
another. The policy was so delivered, I.
think, about the 24th day of November;
was so delivered to Harry Hayward, or
rather, to Miss Ging. But it will be dis-
closed for you in evidence that the last
time Harry Hayward says he ever saw
Catherine Ging, which he says was be-
tween 11 and 12 o'clock on Monday, Dec. 3,
that at the last time he saw her, and
among the last things Catherine ever said
to him or gave into his hands, was a
clause she had received from the Travel-
ers Insurance Company, a little slip to
be pasted upon her policy, expressly and
particularly exempting or excepting from
the policy the clause concerning intentional
injuries, reading about like this: “The
exemption of liability from all intentional
injury shall not extend to injuries, fatal
or non-fatal, inflicted by the insured or




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL 7
any other, resulting from injuries received
while defending her person or her family
against the attack of thieves, robbers or
pickpockets.”
“Harry Hayward admits that. That
clause was attached to the policy upon
that day. That night the soul of Cath-
erine Ging took its flight.”
CHANGED THEIR LOCATION.
During the noon recess the position of the
jury and the lawyers engaged in the case
had been changed from the left hand side
of the court to the right hand side. -
At 2 o'clock p. m. Mr. Hall continued his
address to the jury, as follows:
“I am glad that this change here brings
us nearer the fire; and I observe that we
are now on the right hand of the court,
and I take it as a good omen in this case.
“Before recess I had outlined to you
something of the details of the finding of
the body of the murdered woman, some-
thing of the facts leading up to her killing,
the circumstances of her being taken to a
morgue, and what followed, and the un-
willing betrayal of himself by Harry Hay-
ward. I was stating to you something of
the state's testimony concerning Catherine
Ging and Harry Hayward, and their rela-
tions; and I was proceeding to state to you
what the state believes, aye, more than
that; what I shall disclose to you in the
testimony that follows in this case will
show what was the horrid secret and mo-
tive in Harry Hayward's heart for com-
mitting this crime—in the insurance which
he had taken out, and I detailed to you
some of the transactions which Hayward
had had with the insurance companies.
“In the course of Hayward's investiga-
tions in the subject of insurance he had
been informed by insurance men, if not by
counsel, of whom he had inquired, that in
order to recover upon insurance placed by
him and running to his benefit upon the
life of Catherine Ging, it was necessary
that he might have it appear that he had
an insurable interest in the life of Cath-
erine Ging. He had been informed that if
they were engaged to be married, or were
husband and wife, that might be a valuable
consideration, and might constitute the
basis of an insurable interest of Hayward
in Catherine Ging's life; but he was not yet
willing to disclose to the world that in-
terest, if it so existed. He was told that he
must have an insurable interest pecuniarily
in the life of Catherine Ging; and in the
course of one of his investigations he was
told that evidence of a note of even date
or therabouts with the policy would be
prima facie evidence of an insurable in-
terest in the life of Catherine Ging. And
his design, long planned and carefully car-
ried out, to compass this insurance and
compass its recovery and collection from
insurance companies, then got the idea
of a loan to Catherine Ging. He had long
been borrowing or getting the money of
Catherine Ging, and the idea of a loan
from him to her was born of his intention
to make it the basis of a valid assignment
of insurance policies from her to him. That
purpose he had long in advance, and care-
fully planned its carrying out, and that,
as we shall show to you from the testimony
that I shall relate and which will follow
in the course of the case, was the main
cause of many of the apparently obscure
transactions between him and Catherine
Ging in relation to this insurance, and to
their relations one to the other.
“Now, gentlemen, the evidence as I have
disclosed it to you up to this point is the
evidence by which this crime is laid bare
and to what extent it is disclosed from the
outside. Here was apparently a conspiracy
to -
COMPASS THE LIFE OF A. WOMAN;
not secreted within the breast of Harry
Hayward alone, but by him necessarily di-
vulged in part, and to others disclosed in
its entirety, in order to encompass its final
carrynig out.
“The state will not rest its case at this
point. As we believe, even at this point,
were the state to close the evidence of
Hayward's transaction with evidence of his
procurement of insurance, the pretenses of
a loan to the amount of $9,500 on the part
of a man of Hayward's commercial stand-
ing to a woman like Catherine Ging, the
fact that he had insurance upon her life
which was to him absolutely worthless un-
less she died, the circumstances of the mur-
der, his involuntary disclosure, his conduct,
and his conduct immediately after the
murder of Catherine Ging, and the rela-
tionship between him and Claus A. Blixt-
all this would make a prima facie case;
aye, more, it is enough to satisfy a keen
and discerning man that [Harry Hayward
had at least something to do with the
murder of Catherine Ging. For no man un-
der the broad canopy of darkness had any
interest in the death of Catherine Ging but
him and him alone. -
“But, gentlemen, when we have reached
this point in the course of the state's tes-
timony, we have but laid the foundation
for what lies beyond of real and substan-
tial testimony. You, gentlemen, before this
case is finished, shall look into the very
heart of Harry Hayward from the rear.
The horrid conspiracy by which this act
was consummated has been absolutely laid
bare, and the sunlight of heaven smiles
into its darkest depths.
“We shall introduce to the court and pro-
duce here in evidence before you Claus A.
Blixt, the instrument by which the shot
was fired; the man by whom Harry Hay-
ward finally compassed his purpose. Claus
A. Blixt is a mechanic; a man of peculiar
characteristics, timid by nature and rather
shrinking, almost a gentleman, uneducated
and inexperienced. Some years ago he came
to work as an engineer at the Ozark flats,
a large apartment building owned by the
father of Harry Hayward, and there for
the first time Harry Hayward met him.
Blixt is a man who loved his wife, and
followed his occupation, and earned a
meager living by manual labor, and who
looked forth in to a future of a piece with
his past, with no ambitions, with no de-
sires but to live peaceably and quietly in
the light he had, and to earn an honest
living with his wife.
“His story, as he will tell it to you, is its
own best interpreter. You will see him on
the stand and he will
TELL HIS STORY AS HE HAS TOLD IT.
Overburdened with the sense of his part
of the guilt which rests on his soul, not
many days after his arrest, when confront-
ed with the evidence of his crime, and his
soul overburdened with its sense of guilt,
Claus A. Blixt voluntarily, of his own ac-
cord, broke down and disclosed all he





º OFFICIAL
STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
knew and all that he had done in connec-
tion with this horrid crime.
“Claus A. Blixt. stands, without a doubt,
in the presence of his immediate future, in
the presence of God to await whatever sen-
tence, whatever judgment this court shall
Pass upon him, for his part in this awful
act. Claus A. Blixt will trust himself and
his fate to God and the court; the conse.
ºnces to him are nothing as compared
with the desire to free himself from the
Sense of guilt, and to make known all that
he knows concerning this.
"If there were no ºth
i. if there was no
lat could or might be heard to -
action, I could rest my own A. º
I would not fear to rest the judgment of
*º one of you upon what Claus A. Blixt.
will tell you in this case, and nothing else
ºt he will tell you win º º'.
truth from a man who, stands as if before
º to meet the awful judgment of his
“But who is Claus A. Blixt, an
Harry Hayward ever wº
his type and caliber such a spell as to
make him the instrument and the tool of
*::: . ºnatural and horrid deed?
entlemen, the evidences
throughout this whole affair, º º
ºut. all the relationship of all the parties
to it, that there was one keen and alert
mind directing and planning it all; that he
knew and understood to its depths all hul
and the ways and
which it is influenced. y º
knew from the first time he ever laid his
eyes on Claus A. Blixt. that he was not a.
. "...", .." readily succumb to the de-
Or follow his di i. in n-, - - - - -
but he knew º in his bidding;
er testimony in this
t one other syllable
C
ret DOSSessed by him.
l -
Vice S a monster of Such hideous mien
oft, familiar wit ...
We first endure, then pity, º º
of º Hayward played upon the mind
aus A. Blixt. by suggestion of the cir-
.* and of crime. He had not lon
º in the employ of Mr. Hayward's º
ſide. * relations of friendship and COIn-
º had been established between him
. #º. º tried his temper
er to see
of man he Was, and º," "...º.
as he was told. O
THE TEM
“The evide
he asked Blixt.
sºme money?' and Blixt. Sai
that he did want money. l
º #. of want, and he
An *Y said: ‘Wouldn't
you lik
º money?' and he began to .."
W, easy it was to mak. -
he only knew how He k money, if
- new a w
º ºney. and to make it easy. º
ºlosed to Blixt that he was owing a man
º * and he said, ‘I will go to
- *80 and pay this man -
have it in money.” $400, and I will
Mr. Erwin
He had felt th:
loved his wife.
We make an objec
stating any other attempt at . ...”
plated crime, especially at this time, as
evidence that Hayward is Connected with
this homicide.
Mr. Hall–May it please the court, it is
the theory of the state, and we believe
that we are authorized in not only dis-
closing to the jury our evidence, but in
offering to the court testimony to show the
steps and the means by which Hayward
secured the co-operation and the aid of
Blixt to the accomplishment of this crime;
that he began by the suggestion of doing
other things; and when Blixt would refuse
to join in he suggested others, and grad-
ually, step by step, led him on to the
point of securing his consent at the insti-
gation and procurement of Hayward, to be
his instrument in accomplishing this mur-
der. I will state to the court that there
are three or four different propositions
made looking to either the accomplish-
ment of one crime or another, finally lead-
ing up to the suggestion of the doing of
the crime which Blixt did; and an explan-
ation following that from Hayward him-
self as to the reason of his inducing Blixt.
to commit another crime, that he might
have a hold on him, that he might then be
within his control, and that being in that
control he then followed it up with the
suggestion of this crime. Then we will
show the steps by which he finally over-
came his resistance, his abhorrence to the
crime, and finally induced him to do it.
We believe we have authorities to sus-
tain that line of proof. We shall offer it
to the court in absolute good faith, as to
its admissability, its competency, and rele-
vancy in this case.
The Court—I think at this time it is
sufficient for the counsel to state gener-
ally that he procured Mr. Blixt to perform
this deed; and that these other matters
are matters that the court will have to
determine as the testimony comes in. I
am not prepared to say how far the court
will go in that direction. It is unnecessary
to go into all the minutiae of this case,
especially where there is any doubt in
reference to whether the testimony can be
received or not. I think you had better
confine yourself generally to the state-
ment.
Mr. Hall—I should be glad if you honor
would decide the matter now.
The Court—The court will not decide it
now. When the testimony comes in I will
decide it.
Mr. Hall—Well, gentlemen, it shall
await, then, the production of the testi-
mony, the details of the steps by which
Hayward led on Blixt from the suggestion
of crime step by step, overcoming his a b-
horrence not only of death and the com-
mission of crime, but his horror and his
fear of the fearful consequences that fol-
low after crime; the haunting of the faces
of the dead, the fear of punishment, the
retribution that awaits on the breach of
civil law, and that awful retribution that
awaits at
CONSCIENCE'S AWFUL DOOR.
Of this and more we shall offer to you, and
shall expect to prove it to you by the
mouth of Mr. Blixt. Through all these
suggestions, innuendoes and leanings, at
first adverse, he was finally persuaded.
He fell under the spell of Harry Hayward,
even more than had Catherine Ging. He
was a man of lower intelligence. He was
a man made to serve and to follow. He
was not a man who had carved out his
own destiny. The power was not in him





of THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 9.
himself very much. But with
to make of
what little lingering ambition he had, hav-
- won his confidence, he had put his
º entirely in Harry Hayward, º
thought that Harry Hayward would land
him where all was safe, where *
would escape detection, and Yº..."
foolishly hoped that the voice of consc .
might be stilled: And he came from S º
to step under the power of this man, .
though he shrank even from killing an an
mal, and withheld from the mere killing O
a dog until his objections Were finally over-
come and he threw a dog the piece of meat
as poisoned. -
*. *..." object º being
ept the facts in the cºsº.
º º' think it º,” counsel
s the general statement:
*A* these steps had led º:
Hayward finally got to the point, after
had overcome the objections of Blixt, an
after he believed Blixt to be completely
under his control, after he haº induced
Blixt to believe that at Hayward's suº
tion he might be arrested for crime, even,
in that state of mind and with that influ-
ence over him. Harry Hayward asked hiº
if he would be willing to kill a woman;
and, horror stricken, Blixt recoiled fº
the bare suggestion. And Harry said, “it is
so easy; it is done in a minute; I can tell
you how to do it; I have had experience
in these things; I know how it can be
done; I have ascertained the means by
which death can be quickly accomplished:
I know where to strike the fatal blow, and
where the fatal shot should be fired. I know
how to take the life from out the veins.
And he told Blixt where the fatal places
to shoot were; that he had learned that
a shot in the forehead or back of the ear
up through the head was the most fatal
point at which a blow could be adminis-
tered or a shot fired. And when Blixt re-
coiled at the horrid suggestion, he smoothed
it over. “Why, it is so easy; what is life
worth, anyway; what is the use of people
living; life is over in a short while. And
will plan it so that the most skillful de-
tective never can detect you; never º
trace you; you will be absolutely safe if
you only do as I tell you; and if you do
what I want you, that is the beginning:
and we will make the money, and I will
make you rich and powerful, if you will
only do as I want you to do.”
*And Blixt recoiled and still objected.
Finally he said, ‘Would you not do it for
$2,000? I will give you $2,000. He first said
a fifth of what I am going to get out of
it; and Blixt, half listening, half objecting,
Hayward continued to pour into his mind
the stealthy poison of his suggestion, until
he felt himself ready and prepared and safe
in giving to him the outline of his scheme.
“He advised him that there was a woman
that he must get rid of; that he had got-
ten all her money; that he had promised
to marry her and that he did not want to;
that
SHE MUST BE GOTTEN RID OF,
and that he had planned to have her life
insured; that he was going to lend her
money and would take the life insurance
as security for the money that he had
loaned her; that he would have her exhibit
the money in conspicuous places. Then he
said, “If you will do as I say, and kill her
do that I have my doubts.
as I want you to, I will have it all covered
up. They never will be able to trace it to
you or me. They will think she has been
killed for her money. I will have her ex-
hibit this money where others will see it,
and they will say she has been killed for
her money. She will do anything I say-do
anything I want her to do. I will plan it
so she will go out riding with others, so
they will not think it is me, and she will
throw them off the scent. And when it
is done they will never be able to trace it
to us. It will be like finding the money."
“These suggestions, step by step, as the
witness himself will disclose it, were finally
communicated to Blixt on Saturday; I
think it was the first day of December, or
the 30th of November. But on the preceding
Wednesday night Blixt knew that Hayward
was to go riding with the girl, that he was
to begin the series of rides by which he
would pave the way to remove suspicion
from himself. Blixt will tell you the time
of his return and the time of Miss Ging's
return. It was Hayward himself who rode
with her on Wednesday night. On the fol-
lowing Saturday Blixt, meanwhile still re-
fusing to do the final bidding, suggestions
were made of other means by whilho he
would accomplish her death. It was pro-
posed by Hayward to Blixt: ‘If I should be
in the elevator with Miss Ging and should
knock her on the head so that her head
would fall over the edge of the elevator,
would you not be willing to start the ele-
vator, so that her head would be crushed 2*
And Blixt would not do it; he could not do
it. The thought of it was too horrid. Then
other plans were suggested, and finally on
Saturday Hayward brought to him in the
basement of the Ozark
A PIECE OF IRON,
a part of a small rail, probably used in
connection with temporary tracks for haul-
ing dump cars, and asked Blixt to cut off
a piece of it, and Blixt had not the neces-
sary tools, but finally agreed to cut it off
as Harry directed, and heated it in the fur-
nace, laid it out on a block of wood, and
with an axe and some other tools which
he states he had in the basement, he cut
off a piece some 18 inches or two feet long,
And Hayward, when he came back after
the job had been done by Blixt and a friend
of his who chanced to be there with him,
said, ‘Oh, that is not right; that is not as
I wanted you to do it; I wanted it bent and
curved,” and jogged the man who stood by
by saying, ‘Oh, so I could hang it up."
Later that night—and by the way, when he
left, he said to Blixt, “Now, I am going to
do it tonight; I will get a wild horse, a
runaway horse from the
and I will take her out
on one
of these streets and I will have a runaway;
and I can use this piece of iron and spike
her in the head and leave her head against
the rim of a manhole in the street, and it
will look as though she had been thrown
there and killed.” Whether he intended to
I think that
was but a part of the plan by which he
wanted to so accustom the mind of Blixt.
to her that Blixt would finally get used to
it, and think it was not so terrible; that
it might be done and over with. But he
went out that night, took with him a piece
of iron, at least from the Ozark (whether
he took it with him in the buggy or not),
and planned that night as to now he should
livery stable,





10 of FICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT:
return. He left Blixt a detailed account of
what he should take with him, even to his
handkerchief, in order, when he returned,
if he had accomplished his deed, that he
might have a record with which he might
check himself to find, if he had lost any-
thing on the journey, or left any article of
apparel that might be a scent to point de-
tectives to him. He came back that night,
but he had not accomplished his purpose,
and said, ‘No, you need not produce the
list I gave you.’ He did not do it. And
later, when they were alone in the base-
ment, he said, ‘Oh, no; that could not be
done; I could not arrange it any way so it
would look like an accident.” “What did
you do with the ironº asked Blixt; ‘Didn't
she see it?’ ‘Oh, the iron I threw off on the
road side for a road mark, and she did not
know what I had it for, or anything at all
about it.’ And Saturday, at last, was past.
“Saturday night and Sunday Harry Hay-
ward was constantly with Miss Ging, a
dear and trusted friend in her apartments,
going and coming almost all day long. On
Monday morning the intention of Hayward
to finally compass the deed on that day was
a fact. In the early morning he came to
Blixt in the basement and brought with
him some articles that he wished prepared
for concealment; a watch, a roll of one dol-
lar bills and some other articles. The
watch he had Blixt encase in a tin box,
saying it was to be put away in the woods;
the roll of bills was rolled up; some cart-
ridges of peculiar make were to be put
away, gotten out of reach; the plans
for the day were to be talked of, and Hay-
ward finally satisfied himself that if he
pushed the matter to the final extreme
Blixt would do what he wanted; and he
stayed with him until nearly noon and
then went down town.
“The testimony of Blixt will disclose that
in the evening, toward the supper hour,
Harry returned from down town. He came
into the basement where Blixt was and
produced a bottle which he said contained
whisky. What it contained no one will
ever know. Blixt does not know. Nobody
else does. He prevailed on Blixt to drink
it, drink it all. Blixt drank off half of it,
and they talked a while and then he drank
the rest. Harry said, ‘Now is the time I
want this done. I want it done
AS I HAVE TOLD YOU ;
arrange to meet me at Hennepin avenue
and the Kenwood boulevard; you are to be
there and she is to be there; you are to go.
in the buggy and take her to the other side
of Calhoun, and shoot her there and leave
the body and get back home as I tell you.
Leave my revolver in my room after you
have changed the cartridges as I shall tell
you.’ And still Blixt hesitated. And Harry
said: ‘Have you told your wife; does she
know anything about this thing?” and
long before he had said to Blixt, and had
warned him against the precaution of go-
ing away from home so that she would not
be suspicious when he was away at any
time. ‘Have you told your wife?’ ‘No,'
was the reply. “I have not told my wife.”
If I had this thing would be at an end.”
*You better not. Now, Blixt, we have gone
too far with this thing; this thing has gone
to a point where it must be carried out;
you know too much of my affairs already,
and I know all yours. This thing must be
done tonight. It must be done as I tell
you, and either you do it, or I will shoot
you and your wife, too.”
“Terror stricken the poor man consented,
and lent himself as the tool, unwilling
though he was, under arrangement, to
meet about 7 o'clock. Hayward went out,
came back again in a hurry and said, “Get
your hat and coat and come quickly.”
Blixt followed. The revolver was placed in
his hand; the revolver that belongs to
Harry Hayward, which is identified and
will be identified so that neither you nor
any other man that ever sees it will doubt
that it is the deadly weapon that did
the awful work. That black and glistening
weapon of death was placed in Blixt's
hand. He put on his hat and coat and fol-
lowed Hayward up the stairs or down
stairs and into the street and down Henne-
pin avenue to the meeting place some-
where on Kenwood boulevard. Blixt went
to Kenwood boulevard, to the place of
meeting. It was growing dusk; it was
past 7 o'clock a short time, and while he
was there he heard a whistle and heard
Harry Hayward, and knew that he was
coming; he followed him by that sound
down the boulevard some distance from
Lyndale avenue into a spot unfrequented
except by passing teams, and those who go
and come from the city out to their
homes at Kenwood at such a time of night,
and as Blixt came up there stood the buggy
at the side of the road, and Harry Hay-
ward talking to the occupant, Miss Cath-
erine Ging. Blixt came up. The arrange-
ments were short and quick. Blixt was
told to get into the buggy and hustle, by
Hayward, and not going fast enough, the
hustling knocked Blixt's cap off and the
cap was placed on his head again. He was
told to go by the way of Calhoun; that he
would come with a two-horse rig and would
meet them on the other side of the lake.
Blixt got into the buggy, took the reins,
turned the horse about to Lyndale avenue
and drove out Hennepin avenue to Lake
street, thence along Lake street, pondering
awfully what he was going to do; longing
at one time to get away from him, and
finally decided to get out of the buggy.
Still he sat there, as he rode along, and
his careless fumbling with something at-
tracted Miss Ging's attention, and some re-
mark was made by her. As he went out
the road and passed the ice house up as far
as by the side of Lake Calhoun, I think on
the north side of the lake, where Lake
street passes along the border of the lake,
she said: “Do you know what he is going
out for?” Some remark was made about
green goods. “Is it green goods?’ she asked.
And Blixt said: ‘Yes, I suppose so.”
“When she detected him fumbling with
something in the buggy she said: ‘What
have you there?’ ‘A revolver,’ was the
reply. “Harry told me I better have it; that
I might meet some footpads.’ So they rode
up the hill and turned at a place where
they afterwards alighted. Meanwhile Miss
Ging had been leaning out looking to see if
Harry was following; if Harry was coming
with the two-horse rig with which he had
agreed to meet them there—and at one of
those times, as her head leaned out of the
window as far from the dark recesses of
that awful vehicle in which she rode with
the messenger of Death, Blixt says he
don’t know how he lifted his arm—he
don’t know how he did it, but he did it.




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 11.
THE FATAL SHOT WAS FIRED,
Miss Ging's head leaned out beyond the
cover, and it was over.
Eefore he had done the deed Blixt had
taken the buffalo robe which was wrapped
about their knees and had gotten out from
under it and had put it all round Miss
Ging, and she asked him what he was Co-
ing that for. He said he was too warm ;
he did not need it. As she was shot the
ºlood beat from the wound, and he pulled
her head back onto the seat, put his hand
up against her, hid her face and figure
from him with the robe, and rode along
through the dark with the horse, and the
corpse beside him—he don't know how far
he rode. He finally turned around and de-
cided he would start for home, and as he
drove back toward the city, wondered
where he would leave the body, or what
he would do with it. Whether the horse was
only walking he don’t know, but he took
her from the seat, lifted her out, and the
robe and all. The lifeless bundle shot out
over the wheel, struck hard on the cold
gravel road that lay beneath, and the wheel
passed over her as the horse jumped,
startled by the thud, and ran, turning up
the street towards a car that had just
passed. As Blixt. went up that hill he saw
the car. From that he drove out Lake
street to somewhere near Lyndale avenue
beyond Hennepin avenue, in the vicinity of
Bryant avenue, I think it is. There he left
the horse and started for his home.
“From that point he went down on Lyn-
dale avenue, waiting for a car to come
along, and while waiting for the car to
come went into a shanty with a man who
was watching the track somewhere near
Twenty-ninth street and Lyndale avenue.
The exact point will be indicated to you.
He had at one time worked as an engineer
in a stone yard near there, and he made
some inquiry about a fellow workman whom
he had known at that time. From there he
took a car, went down town, transferred.
to the Bloomington avenue line, and went
south upon the errand which he told his
wife he was going on when he left her-
that he was going to collect a little money
due him. He went to the house where the
money was due, knocked at the door, found
no one there, and came home. Coming
back he stopped into a saloon, went into
a jewelry store and left his watch for re-
pair. It was out of repair and was not run-
ning at the time, and also stopped to talk,
I believe, with the switchman at the cor-
ner of Washington and First avenues
south. Thence, with his transfer, he re-
turned home to the Ozark flats, went down
stairs and followed directly
THE BIDDING OF HAYWARD
as he had been directed. He had been told
upon his return to take from the revolver
the cartridges that were in it, both the
discharged and loaded cartridges, as they
were of a peculiar make, and to destroy
them, and in their place to put six other
cartridges which had been given him be-
fore by Hayward, and which he had in
his pocket. This Blixt did, throwing the
old cartridges into the furnace and re-
placing the empty chambers with the car-
tridges in his pocket. He then went to the
room or flat occupied by Harry Hayward,
which is on the ground floor, a flat in the
Ozark building, and there left the revolver,
as he had been instructed, in Harry's
apartments. Thence he went down stairs
and into his bed.
*Gentlemen, this story, or this detail of
the horrid facts will be corroborated by
the testimony that we shall follow it with:
I believe, with such accurate detail that
you may almost see and follow, as though
you have been eye witnesses of the scene,
the course followed that night by Blixt. He
will be corroborated as to the circumstances
of leaving the Ozark building, of the meet-
ing at Hennepin avenue and the boule-
vard, of both himself and Harry Hayward
there. He will be corroborated in his course
as to the moment when he left the lifeless
corpse upon the road and rode rushing
back toward the city. His course from
there down to the city, and back to his
home, will be detailed as though you your-
selves had been the eye witnesses of the
horrid course.
“But, gentlemen, the testimony of the
state will not stop there. When we have
laid before you from the mouth of the man
who did the deed, without fear and without
favor, without promise and without induce-
ment for confessing, as he will confess the
full consequences of his part in this horrid
crime, even there the testimony of the
state will not rest, but you shall hear of
the plans and the preparations made by
Harry Hayward from the lips of one in
whose veins flows the same blood as his
OWn.
ADRY'S PART A.S. A. WITNESS.
“Harry Hayward had a brother older
than himself, between whom and him there
existed the tie of brotherhood as cemented.
by kinship, and as it exists between most
brothers. They had not always been
friends. They had not always agreed alike.
Harry’s life was a wild and reckless one.
Adry's was the quieter. A dry lived and
earned his daily bread as best he could.
There was a kinship and likeness in their
natures, perhaps, in a desire to gain and
to get gain, but Adry was the conservative,
the slow-going, perhaps, the unthrifty, in
the mind of Harry. You will hear from
Adry's lips the steps by which, long before
he knew Blixt, and long before Harry had
paved the way to make Blixt the tool of
his horrid ambitions and desires, he sought
to make his brother the victim of his plan
by which he would murder and escape the
consequences. You will hear from his lips
the story of a deliberate proposition to his
own brother to murder a woman. Sugges-
tions followed with Adry more cunningly
but in the same line as suggestions fol-
lowed with Blixt. Attempt after attempt—
first striking at his pride and his desire for
money, twitting him with the fact that he
would live and die a pauper; that he was
a fool to simply work and get what money
he could earn, when wealth was
JUST WITH IN HIS GRASP
if he would only catch onto the idea, and
follow his directions. One side and the
other, he tried it as brother tries brother.
But in one way and the other the brother
evaded, postponed put off and sought to
dissuade. From Adry's lips you will hear
the story of the relationships as communi-
cated by Harry to him, existing between
Harry and Catherine Ging. Long back he
had begun to talk to Adry of the dress-
maker, of what fools women were, that a
woman who had reached a certain age in
life could be gotten to do anything by the





12 of ETCIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
-
man she trusted, that he was working the
aressmaker for what she had, that she had
some money; that she had loaned him
what he wanted; that he would operate
and invest or gamble with it and would
pay her when he thought he could get
some more, and make it lose when he had
enough; that she would do what he
wanted.
*I presume counsel will object if I go into
the details of these transactions and con-
versations as they occur, for they are per
culiarly alike, these talks between Harry
and Adry, and between Blixt and Harry.
These two men, since their arrest, and since
the disclosure of their testimony, have been
looked, one in the jail here, and the other
in St. Paul. Each does not know what the
ºther has said with a desire to know the
whole truth and the absolute truth. These
men will go on the stand and tell independ-
ently for himself what he knows without
any regard to what the other has told. If
you ever hear it all and know it all, there
will be such a dove-tailing of testimony,
of incident, of style of attack, and kin-
ship in the suggestions made, one to the
other, that leaves the mark and the convic-
tion of nothing else but that both men are
teliling what is absolutely true. But, pass-
ing over that, as counsel has offered his
ºjection to it, we shall wait its introduc-
tion in the form of testimony.
HARRY's ROLL DISPLAYED.
“on or about the 6th of November, the
testimony of Adry will disclose that Harry
came back from Chicago, that in his talk
with Adry he told him that he was sup-
posed to be ºbusted." exhibited to Adry a
pawn ticket from Chicago and said, ‘I am
supposed to have put up all I had in
Chicago to get home, and for a while don’t
let anybody know what I have or what you
see.” A few days after that, one day Harry
suddenly disclosed to Adry a pile of bills,
flashed over his coat and showed him that
he had a large amount of money and a
a few days after that, in the water closet,
as both men were there, the pile of bills
was in some way exposed. In a playful
manner Adry made a grab for the money,
and as he did it the ends were exposed,
and he saw there was a large number of $1
bills; that there was a hundred or so on
the outside as a cover only, and about it a
strap indicating $5,000. Harry was angry,
and said, ‘You are not supposed to know
what is here; you have no business to do
that; let that alone.’ Soon after, following
it up, he said, ‘If I make a suggestion that
I have some money and you say anything
to Albert Johnson, tell him I have got
about $7,000.’ And so Adry did, when the
suggestion was raised some days after
that. It was not long after that that Adry
observed the talk of life insurance policies,
and Harry began to ply him with the
same questions that he was elsewhere ply-
ing to insurance agents, and those who
were in the insurance business, and finally
one day Adry hears a conversation and in
his presence there is a conversation in
which Harry announces that he is going
into the millinery business; tells Albert
Johnson, “I am going into the mililnery
business; I am going to lend a woman
$7,000. She is a shrewd woman and I am
going to get into the business; I am going
to lend her money.” And Albert Johnson,
who was a bachelor, and had a proverbial
suspicion of all the ladies, said: "Don't you
do it, Harry; don't you do it; you will get
left; they will beat you, Harry.' 'Oh, no,
but I am going to do it; I am going to lend
the money. How much interest can I get?
What is a good rate of interest?’ ‘Ten per
cent is legal,’ was Johnson's reply. ‘Well,
said Harry, ‘I am going to make it 9 per
cent, and as security for the loan I am to
have a chattel mortgage on the stock, and
in addition to that I am to have an assign-
ment of the life insurance; the woman is
going to get her life insured. If she lives,
she is thrifty, and she is a money-maker,
and I know she will make it, and if she
should die I will get my money on her life
insurance.”
“That was his plan, and that was his
first notorious announcement of it in order
that he might pave the way to say here-
after that it was open and notorious, and
that he had made no concealment in the
attempt to loan the money.
ADRY GRE W FEARETUL.
“Adry, from his talks and from these
suggestions, feared too much what was
meant by that loan. In the talks about life
insurance he had learned something of an
insurable interest, and what it meant, and
he read between the lines the horrid secret
that must be in Harry's mind when he
talked of loaning and going into business.
The talks followed, as brother will talk
with brother, until finally one day, realiz-
ing and having the statement made to
him—I think somewhat like this–Harry
came in angry, in a terrible rage, a thing
that is seldom with him, as he has control
of his passion, and seldom gives utterance
to his rage in words. But he was angry
one day—I think it was about Thanksgiv-
ing day, or thereabouts—and came into the
office, and, speaking in opprobious terms
of his poor victim, said: ‘The fool has gone
and got a $5,000 policy, and I told her to
get a $7,000 policy. She ought to be killed
for being such a fool, and I will kill her
now, if I never get a dollar.” The secret
was out. Adry had suspected it long be-
fore. He had read it in the preparations of
Harry. He had read in his talk about
the loan and about the business, but there
flashed out before him in all its horrid,
glaring reality, and he recoiled and said:
“For God's sake, Harry, you don't mean to
do this; why, it will haunt you as long as
you live if you ever do a thing like that.
You might kill some one who had injured
you and wronged you, in rage. I could
think of some one doing that; but to kill
a defenseless woman; why, Harry, you
will hang for it."
“And then followed a scene which he may
depict for himself, for I cannot—I cannot.
I will leave that for the witness himself,
as he depicts the rage and anger of Harry
Hayward as he glanced around to see if
the transoms were closed, and then to spit
into the very soul of Adry Hayward his
first fright and his first recoil, and to
drive from out the very memory of Adry
anything that he had said in his anger
that had caused Adry's alarm. He had
been alarmed; he had feared Harry for
some time. He went home and got his re-
volver. Stupified with terror, he knew not
what to do or where to go. He had one
friend in whom he trusted, who knew his
family. He and his father had some little
difficulty in their business. And on that













































OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 13
with that horrid fright, after that
day,
awful experience with Harry, Adry went
and made the one, and the fatal disclosure
so far as this case is concerned, to an
outsider. He told something of the fact in
his impulsive, swift running way to Elder
Stewart --
Mr. Erwin–We object to that.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Hall–But by such means as in him
lay, he made some attempt to stop the
doings of the horrid deed. I shall offer no
explanation or excuse for Adry Hayward.
When you see him you will understand
his character. He may not have done, and
did not do, the duty that lay on his part,
but he was throughout this whole horrid
conspiracy the unwilling receptacle of
THE SECRETS OF HIS BROTHER.
Perhaps, with a brother's love and solici-
tude, he went away beyond where he had
any right to go in keeping from the public
and from the public officers the awful
knowledge that had come to him. But that
he never was a party or sympathizer in
any of the horrid plans of his brother, I
believe you will be satisfied of. Adry Hay-
ward after that knew little of what was
going on. He did not know that Harry
had passed him up, and told him: ‘You are
a fool; you will always remain poor; you
will go on now, and some day you will do
for a little bit that you would not do
now for $2,000. I do not need you any
more. I have got another man who is a
better man than you; who has got nerve,
and who can keep his mouth shut. And I
can trust him;’ and he told Adry it was
Blixt.
“On Saturday night,
Harry took the ride himself and had
planned himself to compass Catherine
Ging's death by striking her in the head
with a piece of iron, he came to Adry's
flat and said “Rid, you had better look out
for yourself tonight, better not stay at
home, better go somewheres; something
may happen tonight, and your wife's tes-
timony is not any good.’ Adry stayed at
home I think, that night. The next day,
or the following Monday. Harry met him
and said “Ha, ha, you were out very early
Sunday morning. I noticed you looked for
a newspaper.’ ‘Yes,' was the reply, ‘I was
afraid something might have happened.”
“‘Well, it did not; no, it did not,’ was
Harry's remark.
“Adry will detail to you what he saw of
Harry on the fatal Monday. Adry went
home to an early supper, was with his fam-
ily to supper, and somewhere near to 17 or
20 minutes to 8 o’clock Harry came to his
flat door—it was on the same floor in the
Ozark as his—and by the way, in passing,
there had been many transactions, that the
evidence will disclose, between Adry and
Harry. -
TRANSACTION OF THE NOTES.
“On the 24th day of November Adry had
learned from Harry that he was to have
the woman come to the office in the Oneida
Block where Mr. Hayward, Sr., had his
office, and for whom Adry then worked,
and into which office Harry came and went
and did what little business he did do. He
was advised that the notes were to be
signed, had been requested to remain and
have a witness to the notes, and had re-
fused and had gone away; and Harry said;
the night when
‘Well, Blixt will be down, and I will have
Blixt sign the notes.' And the notes were
written out and were signed on that 24th
of November. After they were signed, and
subsequent to that day, Adry was asked
by Harry if he had any large bills, and was
asked to exchange larger bills for a number
of $1 bills which Harry was anxious to get
rid of in some manner, and Adry refused.
He wanted Adry to go to the bank and
take 75 of them and get a draft on the
bank payable somewhere and then later
go and get the draft cashed, so that he
might have larger bills. Adry again re-
fused, but he finally consented to take
some of the bills and give him what
change there was in the cash drawer, and
later Harry gave him some 40 or 50 more
of these $1 bills, which he took into his
possession, but had not yet the money to
pay for them in other bills, and Harry
would keep coming for other bills to him
to make out this relation of the amount of
$1 bills placed in his possession. We have
some of those $1 bills. They were put in
his safe by Adry, and we shall show what
We have.
THE FATEFUL MONDAY NIGHT.
“But on this Monday night, at the time
I have indicated, from 17 to 20 minutes to
8 o’clock, I think it is that he puts it,
Harry came to the door and said, ‘Kid,
have you got any money?' He had obtained
$5 in the afternoon before saying that he
had a friend in the next door that he was
following up, who was Thomas Water-
man. I believe Adry gave it to him, and
that Harry said, ‘Kid, don’t be a fool to-
night; go to the theater; go where plenty
of people will see you; your wife's testi-
mony is no good; don't stay here. I will
tell you something is going to happen." He
added, “By the way, if anything happens
around here along about half past 9 o'clock,
have your curtain up,” and Adry said, ‘No,
sir.” “Well, if you won’t do that, will you
go into my room at half past 9 o'clock and
see that my revolver is under my pillow?
‘‘ ‘No, I won't,' Adry replied, and he ad-
ded, ‘For God’s sake, Harry, you are not
going to do anything.” “Go away, go away
—I have no time for you. I am in a hurry,'
was Harry's reply. He was gone, at the
door, and Harry sees him no more until
after the deed was done. Adry went from
his room a few minutes later to the home
of his father-in-law adjoining, and remained
there during the evening, and came back
to his room something after 9 o'clock, re-
tired and went to his bed. At about the
hour that Blixt details as the time when
he returned Adry was asleep; he had not
a watch, but places it something near 10
o'clock. He heard quick steps along the
tiled hall of the Ozark, and heard the slam
ming of doors, and shortly after saw a
bright light shine through the transom
from the bathroom of Harry's flat. He
could look and see when the bright light
shone, and it shone there for a few mo-
ments and then went out, and after that he
went to sleep, and heard no more until
somewhere near 3 o'clock in the morning.
The tumult that had risen in the house be-
tween 11 and 12, and the intelligence which
had come to the Ozark, had aroused others,
but it had not aroused him and his family.
About 3 o'clock in the morning Harry came
knocking at the door. Adry took down the





OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
barricade with which he had been keeping
his door locked for some time in his fear
of Harry. “Who is it?” he asked. “Why, it
is Harry—let me in; don’t you know what
has happened? Miss Ging has been killed,
the woman up stairs; found on the road-
way away out back of Lake Calhoun dead,
stone dead.’ Adry let him in. He came in
with the expression of surprise as to what
had happened. Found stone dead,” he said,
and repeated it with a knowing look at
Adry.
“Then he wanted Adry to go with him to
his room, and Adry expostulated with him,
and said it was no use doing that, and
finally persuaded him to go into his room,
or into his flat adjoining on the same floor,
and there Harry took out his gun, the gun
which we shall produce here, the gun with
which Blixt had done the horrid deed—
took it up and took out the cartridges that
Blixt had put in there, and took a cloth
and very carefully cleaned it off so that
not one speck of smoke or powder should
remain upon it, and he wiped it off care-
fully with a cloth and threw the cloth into
the waste basket, and put the gun back
into the top of his trunk and closed it up.
As they were leaving the flat he said to
Adry, ‘It is like finding it.” He stayed that
night at Adry's flat. The details of what
followed Adry will give you in his own
language; it is unnecessary for me to re-
peat it.
HIS NERVE UNIFLIN CHING.
“The following morning Harry was in-
terrogated concerning what he had said,
and, as I have before told you, when he
made the first disclosure at the Ozark,
and he went down to police headquarters
and talked even more than he did at the
Ozark. And on the following morning, with
a brave front, he went out to face suspi-
cion, and to face it down, and to rest him-
self in absolute security on what he thought
was his so carefully devised plan of decep-
tion, as he said the shrewdest detectives in
the world could not trace him. And with
an open face he went to the chief of police
and to the mayor. I think at 11 o'clock on
that day he and I faced one another, and
he told me the story of the insurance for
the first time.
“Several days after that both of the boys
were arrested. Learning that his secret
was out, Adry first confessed, and then fol-
lowed the confession of Blixt. The evi-
dence is simply a question of time and dis-
covery that has been disclosed to the state,
and, as we shall produce it here, in about
the inverse order in which it canne to us.
Adry's testimony here will convince the
most skeptical. He is a man of strong re-
serve, a man of conscience, a man of honor.
He has done perhaps the wrong of omission
in failing to do his duty; he has but one
object now, and that is to tell the truth to
you. As his testimony will disclose, he is
not guilty of any knowledge or guilty
of participation in this crime. There
would be every inducement to him
to conceal all he can to shield his brother,
and to an unusual degree he realizes the
terrible position in which he is placed to be
in part
THE ACCUSER OF HIS BROTHER.
But he realizes, as all others do who
have come in contact with this crime, that
its horror is so great that no considera-
tions of persons or kindred can or should
weigh one tithe. It is as though God him-
self has disclosed, as by some miraculous
power, the whole inside of this horrid con-
spiracy; but there is nothing left to do
but for the witnesses to tell what they
know about it. Every motive of conceal-
ment in Claus A. Blixt is wiped away, for
he faces the consequences without fear.
Death or imprisonment to him are joyful
in comparison to the horror in which his
soul has dwelt, with the dread secret hov-
ering over it.
“Adry Hayward, his own brother's ac-
cuser, proving false even to the ties of
kindred and realizing with an abhorrence
of all that it will bring to him, would
rather tell the truth and face whatever
consequences belong to him for his omis-
sion than to keep silent and refuse to tell
the truth in the presence of this awful,
charge, and in the presence of the dread
consequences that may ensue in this case.
“Gentlemen, that is the evidence in the
main that will be offered here. We will of
fer you the testimony of those who saw
Catherine Ging on the fatal Monday. One of
Harry Hayward's plans, and perhaps the
most cunning devised, and the most de-
lusive of all the plans he laid to divert
supicion, was the pretenses which he in-
augurated some little time before the mur-
der, or at least pretenses which he made
public to others, of the apparent fear on
his part that Catherine Ging was making
arrangements to do something else with the
money he had loaned her than what he
pretended she had promised to do. The
evidence of Blixt and Adry will disclose
that no $7,000 was ever turned over by
Harry Hayward to Miss Ging; that there
was not to exceed at any time $3,000.
question if there was any more in that pile
of bills than $1,000 or the $985, the pro-
ceeds of Catherine Ging's last mortgage,
which Harry Hayward took with him to
Chicago and which he brought back in a
different form. But, however, how much it
was, whether $1,000 or $2,000, the money was
all conveyed and trusted back to him by
Catherine Ging.
CATHERINE GING’S PLANS.
“Catherine Ging has not yet gone into
business; she has not even rented the store
where she was going into business. As far
as she had progressed in that direction was
to go and inquire about the rent and make
some inquiries about the party who was
renting; she had not rented, much less
bought and goods. Her plan was to buy
goods much later in the season, or at the
opening of the spring season. She had no
need of the money then, whatever. That
money was immediately conveyed back
from Catherine Ging to Harry Hayward,
so great was her trust in him—a woman
who would transfer to him all of her earth-
ly goods would give him all of her money.
With the promise of marriage then existing
between them, and a loan of $7,000, or the
promise of a loan of that amount to her to
go into business with, she would quickly
lend herself to a proposition of Harry Hay-
ward’s to insure her life for his benefit;
and we will show you that about that time
Hary Hayward insured his life in behalf
of Catherine Ging. Aye, insured his life in
a manner he knew was absolutely worth-
less; for when he would have Catherine




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 15
Ging insure her life for his benefit, he took
it in Catherine Ging's own name, and in-
sisted upon paying a consideration for an
assignment of the policy to cover an in-
surable interest, as he understood it in law.
But when he insured his life for the bene-
fit of Catherine Ging, for her interest, for
the bare pretense of telling her he had in-
sured his life for her benefit, he insured
his life straight to Catherine Ging—worth-
less as he knew upon its face. He had the
agent who wrote the policy make out a
receipt that he had taken out insurance
in the name of Catherine Ging, that he
might show it to her, and make it a part
of his plans of her undoing and her decep-
tion.
“Harry Hayward was not even content
with the laying of plans for a pretended
loan. The exhibiting of a large sum of
money and his talk with Albert Johnson,
the evidence will disclose a double purpose.
He exhibited that pile of money under very
peculiar circumstances. It was about the
time of his return from Chicago. What-
ever money he had he had then, and on
that very day he went to a pawn-broker's
shop in this city, Simon Gittelson's, and
there took three rings, one of them his
own, another one Catherine Ging's, a third,
a little diamond with three stones, his own;
the fourth, his own brother's ring, Adry's
ring. He pawned them at a pretty good
percentage, receiving something like $170
on the rings, and said to Simon, "I am not
busted; I am not in so great need of this
money, I only want it to make up the bal-
ance of a loan that I want to make, and
see!"—and he flashed his pile, the ends of
bills, in Simon’s face.
LAYING HIS PLANS CAREENULLY.
“Not content with paving the way to ap-
pear to have plenty of money, this gamb-
ler, who was the favored child of fortune,
who could gamble $1,000 on the turn of a
card, was scarcely ever fixed with money,
but it was gone on the wind. This reckless
child of fortune carefully laid his plans
not only to make it appear that he had
plenty of money, but he was going to and
was making a loan to Catherine Ging, not
only laid out his money in conspicuous
piles on the table when Catherine Ging
came to sign the fatal notes which we shall
show to you, but he called in Blixt to wit-
ness the $7,000–called in little Joey Wither-
spoon, the elevator man from the Oneida.
Block to sign his name to the note, and
cautioned Blixt as he went out to say to
Witherspoon, ‘Oh, what big bills they were:
I never saw such big bills in my life.’ And
he went from that very room down with
Blixt to buy that little stop-cock which
was to be the excuse for Blixt going to the
Oneida Block, and when he paid for it, he
had in his pocket the money which he had
pretended to give to Catherine Ging, for he
took out a $100 bill to pay for a little stop-
cock, and Blixt had to pay for this little
stop-cock himself out of a $10 bill, a part
of this—I don’t know that I ought to go
into this matter until it comes out.
“I say, in paving the way with the ex-
hibition of the money, and the precaution
about the insurance policies and a number
of other transactions, he even thought that
that might not be enough. Oh, with what
cunning, with what shrewdness he thought
he was laying his plans. He thought, ‘Now
maybe these insurance companies will say
you have not loaned any such amount of
money to Catherine Ging; you have not
done anything of the kind; that is all a
put-up job; you have no interest in her life;
you say you was not engaged to her, she
was not your fiancee; you say you are a
gambler, you had no seventhounsand dollars
to loan her to go into business, and you did
not lend her any seven thousand dollars to
go into any such business as she was going
into. ‘O,” he said, ‘that is fishy; that won't
wash entirely,” and so he commenced to
lay other plans. He paved his way, by
what device I do not know. I can only im-
agine. At least he got Kate Ging to lend
herself to his plan. He probably said,
‘Kate, I think a good deal of you, and we
will be married some day, you want to go
into business. I have lost the money you
gave me to go to Chicago with, I am
"busted,” but I have made a strike since.
I have got money now. I have got plenty
of it, and I will set you up in business; I
will give you seven or eight thousand dol-
lars to go into business with, but I want
SOME KIND OF SECURITY.
I tell you what I will do, Kate; I will have
my life insured for you and I will give you
all my property. You get your life insured
for me, but, Kate, I must have some insur-
able interest in your life.” “Why, I must
appear to have loaned you some money,
seven or eight or nine thousand dollars,
whatever the insurance is, and you give
me your notes, Kate, and as you want it I
will give you the money, what you want to
go into business with. After he got a
little further along she signed the notes,
and he told her he wauld let her have the
money when she wanted it.
“ “But, Kate, I must have something more
than this, and I tell you what I will do, I
will pretend to write you a letter that I
want that money back, and then you write
me a letter that it is not your money, or
that you have loaned it out and I can have
it on a certain day if I want it so he
paved the way and wrote those letters.
Qn the 29th day of November he had Katie
Ging write him a letter the 29th day of
November was Thanksgiving, and the tes-
timony in this case will show that all day.
long, from early morn until long after 10
o'clock, I think, and until the midnight
hour, Harry Hayward was in Catherine
Ging's flat. And yet he Says on the morn-
ing of the 30th there was handed to him
by the elevator man a letter from Cath-
erine Ging in which she reminds him, “In
our talk of yesterday morning you wanted
Your money back; why, I can’t let you have
it, the $2,500; you can’t need any such sum
of money to go to the Hot Springs with.”
and expostulating with him that she could
not let him have the money, and remind-
ing him that the $2,000 that she had been
flashing at Barge's retaurant was not her
money.”
A STRONG CHAIN OF EVIDENCE.
“I have omitted a great many things in
this testimony, gentlemen, but it is im-
material to the present purpose. They will
make a claim so strong that if you hear
but a portion it will be sufficient. There is
no weak link in this testimony; it is strong
enough, and it is true, every link of it.
There was a visit to Barge's restaurant on.
Wednesday. Harry and Miss Ging had
gone to Barge's restaurant, and there was



16 - OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
an exhibition of some money there, and
that was part of the publicity of her show-
ing her money. The first letter was receiv-
td on the 30th, and in response to that he
writes a letter, a peculiar letter, as you
will see when you hear it, and it was sent
to Kate, reminding her that she had a re-
markable nerve after he had loaned her
$9,000 and wanted $2,500 of it back again in
a few days, to remind him that $500 was
enough—for his theory in this letter was
that he had previously loaned her $2,500.
He had loaned her $2,500. He had been the
recipient of her money within less than a
week.
“He was never a lender of money—never
until this time. He had been a borrower, a
reckless profligate, borrowing of every one,
and everybody, and hoping to return it by
the fickle wheel of chance. But when he
loaned her $7,000, he pretends he did it un-
der a special promise that in a few days
she would let him have $2,500 of it back
again. Conceive the wisdom, the fore-
sight and the prudence of a lender who
would loan $7,000 to a woman who did not
need the money, and would not need it
for several months, with the promise that
out of $7,000 she will pay him back $2,500
she had previously borrowed. In this letter
he reminds her of that, and pays the com-
pliment to her nerve when she insisted that
$500 was enough for him when he wanted
$2,500. -
IXATE BASELY DECEIVED.
“And he received another reply from
Kate, but that reply was written by Kate
herself, without Harry Hayward sitting
at her side to dictate its terms. It is decid-
edly ambiguous. I will not read it to you
now; you will read it when it is intro-
duced in evidence, and I want you to Ob-
serve its ambiguity— it means nothing. In
it she says: “The $2,500 which I showed at
Barge's was not mine.” No, she did not
think it was hers, poor girl. Katie Ging
did not know the money that Harry Hay-
ward was alluring her with upon that fatal
day was her money. She thought he had
lost the money she had given him, and
the money he had was the result of some
other winnings.
“But gentlemen, the hours are speeding
and I must close. The testimony in this
case, I think, will leave no room for any
shadow of doubt. There is one thing, and
it is the only mystery, if any, that is, so
far as I can see, in this case, and that is,
that a character could be so debased, so
absolutely and heartlessly depraved as this.
Most of you, gentlemen, are farmers; you
are used to tilling the soil and to seeing
nature in the returning season bring you
her fruit. Nature is always true, there is
nothing false in nature but man himself.
As you look into the horrid conspiracy
that will be disclosed in this case, and look
down into its black depths, it will not be
surprising if you doubt. How can a mind
be so depraved? How can the getting of
a sum of money, $10,000 if you please, or
the getting rid of an infatuation which was
uncongenial to him be a sufficient motive
for a man to go to such depth as this in
crime? But, gentlemen, it is truth, and if
you have observed enough of human life
you know it; there is nothing in all the
course of vice that will so completely sap
all the sympathy, all sentiment and all
good out of a man as the practice and habit
of gambling. Harry Hayward had come to
a state of mind when to him heaven was
simply wealth and
HELL WAS POWERTY.
So long had he been accustomed to the
gaming table that he was willing to risk
all that he had on the turn of the cards. So
blind was his trust in his lucky star that he
thought all things would turn his way; that
luck was with him—fortune had smiled on
him enough so that he was ahead of the
game. He had learned to draw down be-
hind the windows of his soul an impene-
trable curtain that shut out all thoughts of
the past; there was no such thing in him
as remorse; no such a thing as conscience.
He had none.”
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I dislike
very much to interrupt the counsel, but I
desire to note an exception to his remarks
as to the results of gambling.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
TO FIT THEIR CONSCIENCE.
Mr. Hall—“Gentlemen, I was not speak-
ing from my own experience, I was making
observations, and they are not a part of the
testimony, and you will not receive them.
You are to receive the testimony in this
case and to see it in the light of your own
judgment, of your own experience. What-
ever I say, if I have departed in the least
from the testimony, you are not to receive
it but to reject it. Only take such a part
of this testimony, or my statement of it, as
fits your own consciences and your own ex-
perience as men, nothing more.
“But, gentlemen, I will say this, and I
will say it upon the authority of one of
those who looked deepest into the hearts
of men and who most keenly observed
their motives. It is written in the sacred
book, and I think the learned counsel
will not call me down for quoting it, that
‘the love of money is the root of all evil.”
I say the love of money, the greed of
gain, whether by gambling or whatever
act it manifests itself, when once it seizes
upon the soul, it saps out of it all good.
And I say to you that most of the mur-
ders that darken the pages of the world's
history have been committed for money.
And I say this, that there is no god so
blindly worshiped as the god of gold.
When the law given to the children of
Israel, which is the basis of the civil law,
was brought by Moses in his arms down
from the smoking Sinai, upon whose tab-
lets was written ‘Thou shalt not kill'—as
Moses brought that law for the first time
to his people he let it fall, and the tablets
were broken as he saw the chosen people
of God worshiping a golden calf. Oh, it
is an idol, fearful in its consequences to all
who worship it.
“Let me remind you. Do you think the
love of money is not a sufficient motive for
the commission of a revolting deed like
this? It was one of Christ's 12 apostles,
Judas Iscariot, who had sat at the same
table with the Master and who had eaten
out of the same dish with him who sold
and betrayed his master, murdered him for
30 pieces of silver.
“But, gentlemen, this case depends upon
no philosophy. It rests upon plain and
simple testimony, so plain that a wayfar-
ing man, if he was amongst you, could not
be mistaken.



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAfil. 17
-
*Gentlemen, if, when this evidence is all
produced before you, if there should be,
rchance, any one among you who should
still have a lingering vestige of a doubt,
when you have listened to all of this tes-
timony, when the last echo of the voices
of the counsel on both sides shall have died
away in your ears, and when the court
shall have told you the law bearing upon
this question then let him who doubts, if
he can, go into the jury room and there
take his case where it belongs—before
THE HIGH COURT OF CONSCIENCE
—let him go into his heart of hearts, and
into the holy of holies of the soul, and let
him there listen to the still small voice
of God’s truth, and if he has a heart he
will hear it speaking to him calm and
clear, and the last vestige of doubt will be
removed. In such a presence, gentlemen,
before such a court, in solemnity bow
yourselves, that your verdict be founded
upon the right. So will it stand as a shin-
ing mark upon the broad highway of the
world's progress to mark where one justice
was done; where he who put his trust in
false gods, who thought to shield himself
behind a refuge of lies, however cunningly
devised, however carefully planed, was
brought to naught and his plans laid bare.
God is truth and God is law, all persuasive
throughout the universe. Demonstrate that
God rules in Hennepin county. Then will
all men trust in the law; then will human
life be somewhat safer; woman’s confidence
and trust will be protected; and you men,
as you honor your wives, your mothers,
your daughters and your sisters, will have
done your duty by yourselves, by your
country and your God.”
TAKING OF TESTIMONY. "
Fitnesses Sworn at the Closing of
Mr. Hall’s Address.
Mr. Hall having finished the opening
statement to the jury, the taking of testi-
many was then begun.
J. H. Ellison.
Sworn. Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Ellison, where do you reside? A.
In this city.
Q. What is your business? A. I am a.
civil engineer.
Q. What office are you employed in, if
any? A. In the office of the county sur-
veyor of Hennepin county.
Q. As deputy county surveyor? A. As
deputy county surveyor.
How long have you followed the busi-
ness of civil engineering? A. About 15
years.
Q. I show you this exhibit “A,” Mr.
Ellison, and I will ask you who prepared
that? A. It was prepared under my di-
rection.
Q. On what scale have you made that?
A. A scale of 250 feet to the inch.
Q. State to the jury what portion of city
or country that shows. A. That shows a
portion of the westerly portion of the city
of Minneapolis–westerly and southwesterly
portions. -
Q. It shows Hennepin avenue, does it?
A. It shows Hennepin avenue from a point
near Twelfth street to Thirty-first street,
I think. -
Q. It shows the Lake of the Isles and a
portion of Lake Calhoun, and the road on
-
the west side of Lake Calhoun ? A. It
does.
Q. What is known as Kenwood boule-
vard 2 A. It does.
Q. Lyndale avenue? A. It does.
Q. Is it an accurate and true map? A.
It is.
Q. On that section that you have indi-
cated, what is the scale? A. Two hundred
and fifty feet to the inch.
Q. That is shown in the 2
marked on the map.
Q. It is marked in the upper corner of
the map, or down there rather? A. Yes, sir.
In explanation I would say that is 250 feet
to the inch by the general map, and there
is in the upper left hand corner a drawing
of a portion of the Excelsior avenue road
on a larger scale, a scale of 100 feet to the
inch.
Q. Which portion of the map is that?
A. The portion which is set off from the
balance of the map by a heavy black line,
being in the upper left hand corner.
Q. That portion is on a larger scale? A.
That is a larger scale than the other por-
tion of the map.
Mr. Hall–What scale is that?
The Witness—The details?
Mr. Hall—Yes, sir.
The Witness—A scale of 100 feet to the
inch. -
Q. I show you exhibit “B,” and I will
ask you what that is? A. That is a plan
of the foundation and the first floor of the
Ozark flats.
A. It is
Q. Foundation and first floor of the
Ozark flats? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was this prepared by you? A. It
was prepared under my direction.
Q. The scale is indicated here, is it? A.
It is.
Q. It is an accurate plan, is it, of that
portion of the Ozark flats? A. It is.
Mr. Nye—I believe that is all at this time.
I offer these exhibits in evidence for the
purpose of the trial—we may want to refer
to them occasionally.
Q. Where are the Ozark flats located 2
A. At the corner of Thirteenth street and
Hennepin avenue.
Q. Well, That shows on the map, I sup
pose? A. Yes, shows on the plat.
CEROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Mr. Ellison, what is your business?
A. I am a civil engineer.
Q. Have you personally verified the scale
of that map; do you know that it is cor-
rect? A. I know that it is correct in gen-
eral; I have not checked every line.
Q. Have you checked some of them? A.
I have checked some of them.
Q. The scale of the map showing a part
of the city is 250 feet to the inch? A. Yes,
Slr.
Q. And that showing the Excelsior road
is how much? A. One hundred feet to the
inch.
Q. You said it showed Hennepin avenue
from Twelfth street; it shows Hennepin
avenue down below Twelfth street, does it
not? A: A short distance below, from
about Twelfth street.
Q. That question is in reference to ex-
hibit “A.” Exhibit “B” was prepared by
you? A. Prepared under my direction.
Q. That work is not really the work of
a civil engineer, is it; rather the work of
an architect? A. Yes, the work of an
architect or a draughtsman.




18 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. Have you personally viewed the prem-
ises and made the measurements so you
can state accurately that the plan of ex-
hibit “B” is correct? A. In so far as the
location of the Walls and outline of the
basement, I can.
Q. And substantially—? A. Substantial-
ly all.
Q. Of all on exhibit “B” 2 A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to ask what the
scale of the larger portion of the map is?
The Witness–In the upper left hand cor-
ner?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir.
The Witness—That is on a scale of 100
feet to the inch. -
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Exhib “C,” I will ask you what that
represents? A. Exhibit “C” is a small plat
showing a further portion of the City of
Minneapolis; there was no room to place
this on the map—it shows Hennepin avenue
as far down as Fifth street to the West
Hotel, and also showing sundry other
streets between First avenue south and
First avenue north.
Q. And also showing Hawthorn? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And it can be attached? A. It can be
attached to the upper right hand corner of
the map, making a continuation of the
Same.
Mr. Smith–Is the scale the same?
The Witness—The scale is the same.
(Examination by Mr. Erwin.)
Q. This map includes some streets that is
on that map? A. It laps over.
Q. What is the last street on the right
hand corner of that map, the one running
northerly and southerly on the map? A.
Twelfth street.
Q. Is that the long or the short one? A.
It is the short one.
Q. Just that half block? A. Excuse me, I
mean the one next to the short block, the
one that runs about three blocks there.
Q. And that is what? A. That is Tenth
street.
Q. It laps over then from Tenth street?
A. Very little beyond Tenth street.
Q. Now what horizontal street is that
on the top of the map running eastways?
A. First avenue north.
Q. Then this map laps over from First
avenue north about that much 7 (Indicat-
ing.) A. It does.
Mr. Nye-That is all.
evidence.
Mr. Erwin–No objection, your honor.
William U. Erhardt,
sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Where do you live, sir? A. Thirty-
second street and Excelsior avenue, Min-
neapolis.
Q. Thirty-second street and Excelsior
avenue 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is in the city of Minneapolis? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you lived there? A.
Twenty years.
Q. What is your business? A. Baggage-
man for the Soo Railroad Company.
Q. Were you engaged in that business
on the 3d of December last? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Residing, however, at the place you
have named? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What hours were you on duty at that
We offer those in
time? A. From 7 in the morning until 7
at night.
Q. At what time did you usually return
home in the evening? A. Eight o'clock.
Q. By what means did you go home, by
team or otherwise? A. On the electric car.
Q. What car was that? A. The Lake
Harriet car, and I transferred to St. Louis
Park.
Q. You went on the Lake Harriet car to
what place? A. Twenty-ninth street.
Q. And transferred then to the St. Louis
Park car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you on duty on the 3d day of
December? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you return home that evening?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what hour? A. Eight o’clock.
Q. By the route you have named? A-
Yes, sir.
Q. The street car line? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you start at 8? A. No, sir.
Q. What time did you start? A. About
7:30 from the center of the city.
Q. And at what time, if you know, did
you arrive at the point where you left the
car for your home—that is, the St. Louis
Park car? A. About 8:25 where I got off
the St. Louis Park car.
Q. That was the time that car was due
to arrive there, was it? A. Near that
time.
Q. Did you take any particular observa-
tion of the time? A. No, sir; they left
Hennepin avenue on time and their time
there for leaving was 8:20.
Q. How far is it from there to your
house where you reside? A. Well, it is
supposed to be two blocks, but they are
two blocks long.
Q. After you left the car, between the
car and your home, did you see or find any-
thing unusual on the road? A. Yes, sir.
THE FINDING OF THE CORPSE.
Q. State to the court and jury what you
saw 2 A. Why, when I first got off the car
I heard a buggy coming through the marsh
but I could not see anything; and I heard
a horse running very fast. And I walked
down to the foot of the hill and a team
passed me, a top buggy with the top up. I
paid no attention to it. The horse was run-
ning. I stepped one side and I thought they
were driving pretty fast. That is all the
attention I paid to it, and I walked along
for about half a block in the direction of
my house and I very nearly stepped on the
corpse of a woman.
... Where was the body lying? A. Right
in the center of the road.
Q. What did you do? A. I went up to
the house, about half a block, and I noti-
fied my brother-in-law, Mr. Naegele, and
my brother Frank, and we returned with a
lantern down to where the body was found.
Q. You came back there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Describe the position of the body? A.
She was lying on her right side, more on
her right side than any way else, I should
judge.
Q. And can you further describe the posi-
tion of the head and arms? A. Her face
was on the right side—you could see the
whole left side of her face—partly on the
right side, and then on her breast all the
way to her stomach.
Q. What was the position of her left
arm 2 A. The left arm was lying down by
her side; her left shoulder would be four or





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
19
ºve inches from the ground, I should judge.
Q. Did the body have wraps on or robes
were there any robes there? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What kind? A. Well, there was a
fur robe there; I don't know what kind of
fur—a robe commonly used by livery stable
men; it was a light colored robe.
Q. The head, as I understand you, was
toward your house? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Let's see the location of your house-
can you indicate about where your house
is here, and where the body was? A. (In-
dicating.) This is our house; it sets right
here, supposed to.
-
". What house is this over here? A.
This one here?
Q. Yes. A. My brother's.
Q. Now, where is it that you found the
body, as near as you can tell? A. This is
supposed to be the foot of the hill?
Q. Yes, this is supposed to be the swamp
and this is the curve here. A. Well, there
is no curve in the street there.
Q. Well, point out as near as you can
the place where you found the body? A.
At about here. (Indicating.)
Q. Where is the place you got off the
car? A. Supposed to be about there.
Q The horse was going toward the car-
that is, toward the city? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The top of the buggy you say was
up? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether there was any
one in the buggy? A. No, sir.
Q. You don't know? A. No, sir.
Q. About how far from the point where
you met the buggy was it to the body? A.
Right at the foot of the hill.
Q. Well, about how far would it be? A.
I should judge it would be a little over a
block—blocks the size of those down in the
city here.
Q. Blocks between the car line and your
house are about ordinary blocks, such as
they have here in the city? A. No, sir,
they are longer.
Q. Where was the right arm? A. As much
as I noticed she was lying on it, or it was
back of her.
Q. Was it in any way out from the body,
or was it lying parallel with the body, or
how was it? A. As much as I remember
it was under the body.
Q. What was done after you and your
brother-in-law and your brother went
there? A. I went over to the corner of
Hennepin avenue and Thirtieth street and
telephoned to the police headquarters.
Q. Do you know who came there before
the police, the patrol wagon came? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. A neighbor of ours by the name of
Mr. Pierce.
º Any one else? A. Not that I know
Of.
Q. Do you know Dr. Russell—well, your
brother and brother-in-law came there?
A. Yes, sir.
º Do you know Dr. Russell? A.
sir.
Q. Did he come there? A. Not until after
the patrol wagon came.
Q. Do you know what was done with the
body? A. Yes, sir. It was put in the patrol
was on and taken away from there; I
don't know where they took it.
Yes,
Q. That is your house there? A. Yes,
Q. Did you make any examinations then
or put your hand upon the body to ascer-
tain whether it was cold or warm? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. When? A. After I went after my
brother and brother-in-law.
Q. Well, that was how long—you just
went up and back? A. Yes, sir; four or
five minutes.
Q. Well, what was it; what condition
was it in? A. Well, it was not cold or it
was not warm.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now, on this night, the 3d of Decem-
ber, do you know from memory what time
you left your place of business? A. Yes,
sir.
Q: What time was it that you left? A.
About 7:10.
Q. Where was your place of business in
the city? A. Yes, sir; Fourth avenue
north and Second street.
Q. Well, now, describe where you went
and what you did before you got on the
car, briefly but fully? A. I walked down
Hennepin avenue, between Washington and
Third, I went into a restaurant there, into
a lunch room, I believe, right near where
the Lake Harriet car turns around, and I
had supper.
Q. You had supper? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, what time did you leave that
place A. About 7:30.
Q. And where did you go directly? A.
Right on to the Lake Harriet car.
Q. And went right out on the street—the
Lake Harriet car turns there or right near
there, right in front of Temple Court, and
you took the first car after you went out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you fix the time as 7:30? A.
Well, that is the time the car runs, on the
hour and 15 minutes afterwards and 7:30,
and I took the 7:30 car.
Q. Then you expected to take that car?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, that was the time table of the
car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you took it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it light or dark? A. It was dark.
Q. Were you dressed in light clothes or
dark clothes? A. Just the way I am.
Q: Dressed in dark clothes. What kind
of hat did you wear, Mr. Erhardtº A. I.
Wore a stiff hat.
Q. Commonly called a derby? A. Yes,
slr.
Q. A round top and a stiff brim? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How near to you did the horse and
buggy pass? A. The width of the road
there is 75 feet–65 feet, something like
that.
Q. Yes, how near to you did it pass? A.
Well, that distance. I was on one side of
the road and the rig passed me on the
other side, and it went half over the bank.
Q: What do you mean, the road went half
over the bank? A. No, sir, the rig did.
Q. Oh, the wheels did? A. Yes, sir, at
least I thought so as it passed me.
Q. How far could you see the rig before
it passed you? A. About 50 yards.
Q. About 150 feet? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far could you see it was a top
buggy? A: Well, as soon as I could see it.
at all I saw it was a top buggy.













20 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. Looking from the hill down into that
tamarack swamp, does it look light or
dark? A. How do you mean?
Q. How did it look that night? A. It
looked dark.
Q. Did it look, dark that night? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Was it moonlight? A. The moon was
just looking down below the trees.
Q. Were you startled in any way—did
you pay attention to the approach of the
horse and buggy, did you look at it? A. I.
looked at it. I thought the man that was
driving kind of reckless. -
You were not afraid of any danger?
A. No, sir.
Q. You thought he was driving reckless?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear any word or exclama-
tion from any one in the buggy 2 A. No,
sir.
Q. No word? A. No, sir.
Q. The sound of any whip? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see any person in the buggy?
A. No, sir.
Q. Could you tell how many there were
in the buggy? A. No, sir.
Q. There may have been one or two, for
all you know? A. There could have been,
yes.
Q. Did you see any hards sticking out
from the buggy? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice any hands in driving?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice how the lines were?
A. No, sir. -
Q. Was the horse checked up or head
loose? A. Checked up, I should say.
Q: What kind of a horse was it? A. I.
should say a kind of a dark horse.
Q. Looked dark to you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. was the horse hitched close to the
wagon—you understand what I mean-or
was he apparently back to the further end
of the phills? A. I did not notice that as
the horse passed me.
Q. As the horse ran, you did not notice
that? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice whether there was any
lap robe or anything of the kind hanging
from the buggy? A. There was not.
Q. Did you notice whether the lines were
up or dragging? A: I did not notice the
lines.
The wheel then ran upon the right
side of the bank, the off side of the buggy
you think went over the bank as if passed
you? A. I thought so at the time; I don't
know whether they did or not.
Q. You think they did? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember who was in the car
with you? A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. Were there many or few 2 A. I don’t
remember.
Q. Was that the car that took you
clear out where you got off, or did you
make a transfer? A. It took me to Henne-
pin avenue and Twenty-ninth street.
Q. And then you made the transfer there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, can you point out on the map
there what street you canne up 2 A. In
coming up town 2
Q. No, no, Hennepin avenue, where the
car ran—that is Hennepin, is it? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. You came down Hennepin to what
point? A. To Twenty-ninth street, right
here.
Q. That is Twenty-ninth street? A. Yes,
sur-
Q. Now, how long were you at that point
before you got a transfer car? A. Why,
the car leaves at 20 minutes after the
hour—it was 8:20 that evening when I left.
Q. Now, do you remember any one that
was there at that time? A. Well, I did
not stay there until the car came. l
walked up to the drug store on the corner
of Thirtieth street and Lake until the car
was pretty nearly due.
Q. Are you sure that you left there at
8:20% A. Yes, sir.
Q. And point out how far you went on
the car before you got off, on that same
map. A. Right here.
Q. No, that couldn't be, because that is
the boulevard. A. Right here; that is sup-
posed to be Lake avenue—Excelsior ave-
nue, I think.
Q. How long did it take you to go from
this junction at 8:20 over to this point? A.
Well, it usually takes from five to ten
minutes.
Q. That would be, then, from 8:20, 8:25
to 8:30? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was anybody on the car that you
knew? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who was it? A. The conductor.
Q. What was his name? A. Fred Has-
kell.
Q. Was there any of your neighbors on
the car; anybody that came out your way?
A. Not as I remember of.
Q. Not as you remember of 2 A. No.
Q. What kind of a night was that, with
reference to being warm or cold? A. Well,
it was cold.
Q. Was the lake frozen over? A. Yes,
Slr.
Q. There was no noise, then, from the
Water? A. They were skating on the
lake—a good deal of noise.
Q. There was skating on the lake? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How near to you where you got off
the car? A. About half a block.
Q. Only about half a block to your
right, or to your left, as you started down
the road? A. My left.
Q. Was there a rink there, what is call-
ed a rink, a place enclosed º A. No, sir,
they were skating all over the whole lake;
the lake was clear of snow, and there was
good skating all over it.
Q. Well, there were very many people
near you on that part of the lake? A. I
could not see.
Q. Well, did you hear a good many? A.
Well, it sounded like a good many, but
you can hear them on the other side.
Q. Then it was still enough to hear the
sound of people talking across the lake?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the sound of the horse or the
sound of the people talking and skating the
loudest? A. The sound of the horse was
the loudest.
Q. You were in the middle of the road,
then, when you heard it? A. When I
heard it?
Q. Yes? A. No, I was more to the
right, walking in the beaten path of the
road.
Q. The track of the road was on the
right hand side at that point. A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you in the track? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do when you heard the
noise? A. Nothing.







of THE HAyv ARD MURDER TRIAL 21
Q. Did you keep right on down the
track? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you apprehend any danger from
the running horse? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you turn out for the horse, or
did the horse turn out for you? A. The
horse turned out for me.
Q. You kept the track? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And did the horse pass you fast or
slow? A. Passed me running.
Q. Running? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Galloping? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you any lantern with you? A.
No, sir.
Q. Was the ground frozen or soft? A.
It was frozen.
Q. Was there any snow on the ground?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did any one get off at the place you
got off, with you? A. No, sir. Off the St.
Louis Park car?
Q. Yes, sir. A. No, sir.
Q. Which side of the car did you get off,
which end of it? A. The rear end.
Q. And which side, the right or the left?
A. I got off the left side of it.
Q. The left? A. Yes, sir; going towards
the rear end of the car was the right end,
right side.
Q. When you got off was it on the side-
walk or street? A. It was on the street;
there are no sidewalks there.
Q. After you got off, what did you do?
A. I started to walk down the hill and I
did walk down the hill.
Q. When did you first hear the noise of
the buggy, or the horse? A. Immediately
upon getting off the car.
Q., Off the electric car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You mean after the noise of the elec-
tric car had passed? A. No, sir; the car
had not got 10 feet away from me when I
heard the horse.
Q. What peculiar noise was there about
the horse? A: I heard the hoofs striking
the hard road.
Q. Well, describe the sound? A. In what
way 2
Q. Whether it was fast or slow 2 A.
Running.
Q. Loping or running? A. I should say
running.
Q. You understand the difference in the
sound? A. I don’t know as I do in the
sound; I do when I see them.
Q. You don’t know as you do? A. I.
don't know as I do, in the sound.
Q. Could you tell whether it was a trot?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Or whether it was loping or gallop-
ing? A. Well, it was a gallop; they use
that when they are running, don’t they?
Q. Yes, sir? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you think the sound came
from? A. From the Excelsior road.
Q. South 2 A. Well, it would be south
from where I was.
Q. Well, did you think it came from the
south when you heard it? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What was the condition of the place,
was it still there then? A. Yes, sir. †
Q: Did you notice anything in the cant-
ing of the buggy top? A. That is what
made me think it went over the bank; I
i. the top of the buggy going to one
side.
Q. Was there any trees or bushes grow-
ing there by the side of the road? A.
Well, there is a bank there.
Q. Any trees on it? A. There is one
tree there.
Q. The limbs hang low? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear the sound of brushing
limbs on the top of the buggy? A. No,
sur.
Q. Did you hear any exclamation at all
when the buggy canted 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice whether the horse
swirled to one side of the road when it
was canting 2 A. I did not.
Q. You could not tell whether it was
driven or not? A. No, sir, I could not.
Q. Or how many were in it? A. No,
sir.
Q. How far from you did it leave the
track to turn out for you? A. Right side of
me it was.
Q. Well, how far before it met you, be-
fore it turned out from the track? A.
could not say.
Q. About how far? A. I should judge
50 feet.
Q. You think 50 feet from you the horse
swung off from the road? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And swung out how far-at that
point what was the relation of the track to
the road—was it near your right side of
the road or near your left side of the
road? A. It was on the right side of the
road to me; I was on one side of the road
and the rig was away on the other.
Q. Which side was you on 2 A. I was
on the right hand side.
Q. How wide is the road there? A. I.
think it is 60 feet wide there.
Q. That would throw the horse, if you
were in the middle of the road, about 45 or
50 feet from you as he passed you? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Now, were you able to discern the
color of the horse? A. I was not, it was
too dark. -
Q. You can't identfy the horse? A. No,
Sir.
Q. Can you identify the buggy? A. No,
S11”.
Q. When, after finding the dead bady,
did you first remember having met the
horse and buggy? A. Where?
Q. When, I say, after finding the dead
body, shortly after, when after that did you
first remember—when did it first occur to
your mind that you had met a horse and
buggy? A. Well, I remembered it after I
had found the body.
Q. Right after you had found the body?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far–well, let me ask you still
further. Did you turn around to look at
this horse after it had passed you? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you stop? A. No, sir.
Q. But you turned your head, did you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how far did you see the horse
coming up along the margin of the lake
there, how far did you see it before it got
out of your sight? A. As it passed me, I
turned around to see that it was not tip-
ped over, and I saw it tip back over into
the road bed all right, and I went on.
Q. Did it tip back in the road all right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how far did it go in the road be
fore you went along? A. I just turned
around to see if it tipped back over in the
road all right and then I went on.
Q. When you turned around to look as







22 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
it, was the back curtain up or down? A.
It was up.
Q. Could you see whether anybody was
in the buggy? A. No, sir.
Q. You could not tell whether there was
any one in there, or whether there were
more than one in there? A. I could not
tell.
Q. How do you remember that the back
curtain was up? A. Because I looked at
it closely. I remarked to myself that it was
a pretty nice buggy, and I remember the
fact that the back curtain was up; noth-
ing but memory.
Q. And the back curtain was up? A.
Yes, sir. If the curtain had been up I
could have looked through.
Q. Well, did you look through? A. No,
sir, I did not.
Q. I think we misunderstand each other;
was the curtain rolled up or was it down?
A. The curtain was down, you could not
look through.
Q. You said it was up. We misunder-
stand each other? A. I meant that if was
put up so you could not see through it.
Some of the curtains roll up and some roll
down on these buggies.
Q. This curtain then was spread over the
space behind the buggy so you could not
look through 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You could not look through? A.
sir.
Q. How far did you hear the horse con-
tinue to gallop–did you notice whether the
horse continued to gallop after you had
ceased looking around? A. I think that he
strated to trot after it went back in the
beaten road, after shying out from me.
Q. He started to trot? A. I think so.
Q. Now, as I understand you, when you
first heard the horse, did you detect that it
was the sound of a gallop? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how long after you detected the
sound of the gallop before you saw the
horse or the horse and buggy—saw some-
thing? A. It was not very long, not more
than half a minute.
Q. Then you heard the sound of the
galloping horse—running horse? A. Yes,
sir, about the length of time it took me to
Walk 200 feet.
Q. About the time you walked 200 feet?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And about 50 feet from you it swung
off past you and then commenced to trot,
after it got back in the road? A. I think
SO.
Q. Did you hear the voice of any one in
the buggy? A. No, sir.
Q. After they passed you? A. No, sir.
Q. How long did you notice—was your
attention called to the trotting of the
horse after it commenced to trot—where
did you lose touch of it, sense of it? A.
Why, at the time I turned around to
glance at it, that was the last time I re-
member of seeing it.
Q. You don’t remember through your
ears of having heard it any perceptible
time after that? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice the track the next day
or at any other time, to see whether the
wheels went over the bank? A. No, sir,
I did not, I did not go that way for a week.
Q. Did you meet any one else between
that point and the point of finding the dead
body? A. No, sir.
No,
Q. Did you hear any one else? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Speak or talk? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were they? A. On Lake Cal-
houn.
Q. What noises were those you heard?
A. Why, people skating and having a good
time, talking and hollering.
Q. What was the character of the land
on each side of the road that you were
then traveling from the time you heard the
horse until you found the dead body? A.
Low land, marsh.
Q. Now, how in regard to trees? A.
There were tamarack trees, I think.
It is what we call
swamp? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Timber standing and some fallen, and
some of bushy character? A. No, sir. it
has been cleaned out within the last five
years.
Q. It has been cleaned out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do the trees stand close together? A.
Some places they do; on the right hand
side.
Q. You would not notice anybody con-
cealed there in the night time? A. No, sir.
Q. How far do you have to walk from
where the buggy passed you—as I under-
stand, there was about 225 feet you walked,
200 feet before the buggy met you? A.
About that, I should judge.
Q. And then you continued walking.
Now, how far from that point did yon
walk before you came across the body of
the lady? A. Well, it would not be a
block.
Q. Can you point out on the smaller
map there so I can get the relative dis-
tance where you found the body? A. Here
is Thirty-second street.
Q. This is where you live? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this is where your brother lives?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what is this? A. That is a barn.
Q. That is the barn, chicken coop, and
so forth, and the house where you and
your brother lived 2 A. Yes, sir. -
Q. As indicated on this map precisely?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, just point out about where you
found the body? A. I should judge about
here. (Indicating.)
Q. Now, you have got the body pointed
out on this map? A. No, I did not point
it out there.
Mr. Nye–He did not point that out.
Mr. Erwin–Well, we will mark that.
Mr. Nye-That is a question of guess.
The Witness—No, sir, I know that coun-
try pretty well.
Q. Now, you put the pencil where it is
and I will make a mark there. A. Right
there. (Indicating.)
Q. Now, your name is U. Erhardt? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And I will put a “U” there. Now,
at this point, relatively in the same place,
where would this be-here is Thirty-second
street and here is your house? A. About
here.
Q. About there—I will make a small
“E” there. Is the turn in the road here
about as it is marked on the map, after
you leave the car track, is the bend there?
A.. I don’t think it is as much of a curve
as that.
Q. You don’t think it is so much of a
flare? A. No, sir.
a tamarack








OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 23
Q. The road is not fenced on either side?
A. No, sir.
Q. This is probably drawn from the plats
and the road may not be drawn correctly
here, but I want to ask you if whether from
wher yiu got off the car to your house, if
it is a straight road? A. No, sir.
Q. Is there a curve there? A. No, sir, it
is not so sharp.
Q. It is a general curve? A. Yes, sir.
Q. There is the same thing beyond the
curve in the existing road—about the same
thing? A. About like that.
Q. Well, it is the same thing here? A.
Well, it is about the same, but it don’t
look so sharp as that.
Court here took a recess until 10 o’clock
a. m. Thursday.
MORNING SESSION, JAN. 29.
When court re-convened, the cross-exam-
ination of William U. Erhardt, who dis-
covered the corpse of Catherine Ging on the
Excelsior road, was resumed.
Q. Mr. Erwin–What direction of the
road did the track follow down to where
you found the body? A. The right hand
side.
Q. Kept on the right hand side? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you discover anything in the
road between where the wagon passed you
and the body? A. No, sir.
Q. Where was the body with reference
to the track when you found it? A. Very
near the center of the track, the head of
the body and the feet on my left hand
side.
Q. Then the body was on the right hand
side of the road? A. The right hand side
of the road and in the center of the beaten
path; that is, the head was.
The head towards the
west? A. And west.
Q. Now, describe to us how the body
laid. Just describe it so we can see it—
whether it lay out straight; whether it
where each arm was; where the face was
turned and so on 2 A. She laid on her
right side; the right side of her face was
down and the limbs were bent up, and her
left arm was underneath, on her left side
of the shoulder, was about five or six
inches from the face. The other hand was
underneath her, as near as I can remem-
ber, the right arm.
Q. Describe the position of any wraps,
robes and clothing about her? A. There
was nothing deranged at all, only her
dress was up above her knees. There was
a robe laying there which was bent be-
tween her; I don’t think she would have
had to move to take the robe up.
Q. Now, describe particularly in your
own way, how her dress was 2 A. Just
above her knees, as if she had struck on
her shoulder or head.
Q: What portion of the robe was be-
tween her limbs? A. The whole of it was
right in between her limbs and head. She
was bent this way and the robe laid in
that way close to her.
Q. As if the robe were up and down
from the chin down? A: Yes, sir.
Q. Not folded in the arms? A. No, sir.
Q. Not clasped in the arms in any way?
A. No, sir
Q. But just as she lay upon her right
side, her left limb was over the robe? A.
It may have been slightly over.
South and
Q. Just slightly over? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You would not have to change the
position of her body to take the robe
away? A. I don’t think so; it might have
been a little.
Q. Which side of the robe was next to
her body? A. Well, the robe was all in a
neap, tumbled right in there.
What was the size of this robe when
removed 2 A. An ordinary robe.
DESCRIBING THE ROBE.
Q. Describe the size of it. A. It would
be about six feet, I should judge; I don't
know that I took any particular attention
to it.
Q. Do you recollect what kind of a robe
it was, buffalo 2 A. I don’t know; it was
a light colored robe.
Q. You don't recollect whether a fox skin
or coon skin? A. It looked more like a
coon skin.
Q. Did the lady have on overshoes? A.
No, sir.
Q. What did she have on in the way of
outer clothing? A. She had on a black dress,
sealskin jacket, or cloak, black mittens, and
a hat, I believe.
Q: What kind of a hat? A. Perhaps a |
bonnet; a small hat, I believe; I don’t re- -
member.
Q. As she lay down, was her face visi-
ble? A. The left side of her face was.
Q. Was she on the side of her faee, or
on the top of her head, more? A. On the
side.
Q. Did you notice how her hat was on
her head, whether it was crushed? A. It
was not on her head.
Q. Where was the hat? A. I don't know
where the hat was found in the first place.
I remember of seeing her hat there some-
where.
Q. The hat was not on her head? A. I
don’t think so.
Q. Where did you first see the hat? A.
It lay right by her back; somebody, I think,
had placed it there.
Q. You found it lying at her back, as
if some one had placed it there—in what
way was it found? A. I think an officer
came over and picked the hat up and laid
it over where I saw it.
Q. When did you first notice it that
night? A. When the officers were taking it
a Way.
Q. Did you notice any hat when you first
saw her? A. No, sir.
Q. You think she had no hat, when you
first came, on her head? A. I don't re-
member.
Q. The first time you noticed the hat was
sometime after you found the body, when
the officers were about to remove it? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then the hat lay on the ground? A.
Yes.
Q. When you saw the body, what did
you think it was, when you first saw it?
A. I supposed it was some farmer got
thrown out of his wagon, first.
Q. What did you do? A. I walked away
from it.
Q. You did not go up to it? A. Yes, I
went up close enough to know it was the
body of somebody.
Q. How close would that be? A. I put
my hand on her face.
Q. You went up and placed your hand
on her face? A. Yes, sir.



24 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Was your hand bare or gloved? A.
I don’t know whether it was or not.
Q. Do you recollect whether the face was
warm or cold? A. No, sir; not at that
time.
Q. You don't know? A. Not when I first
touched her.
Q. I asked you whether you know wheth-
er it was or was not warm or cold. A. I
don’t know.
Q. You don't know? A. No, sir.
Q. You just touched her to see whether
it was a person? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You don't recollect the condition of
bodily temperature at all? A. No, sir; I
do not.
Q. Then, upon touching her and finding
it was a person, what did you do? A. I
went up to the house.
Q. Did you know whether it was a man
or woman when you went to the house?
A. No, sir.
Did you know the condition of the
clothing before you went to the house, or
afterwards? A. Afterwards.
Q. What you described about the condi-
tion of the clothing came to you knowl-
edge after you came back? A. Yes, sir;
when we got a lantern. It was too dark.
Q. It was too dark then to have noticed
without a lantern what you have testified
to about the clothing? A. Yes.
Q. You could not see across the road
there, could you; there in that dark place?
A. Not very plainly.
Q. Could not see across the road? A.
No, sir.
Q. Now, you went down to your house,
and who was at your house? A. My
brother—my brother-in-law, rather—I live
with my brother-in-law—his wife, my sis-
ter and mother.
Q: Who returned with you to where the
body lay? A. My brother-in-law and my
brother.
Q. How long after you left the body be-
fore you returned there–did you all go
together? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long before you got back to the
body? A. I should judge four or five min-
utes; maybe longer; seven or eight min-
utes; 10 minutes.
Q. What kind of lantern did you have?
A. A. Dietz lantern—I don't know how to
pronounce it.
Q. A patent lantern by the name of
Dietz? A. Yes, sir.
Q. A glass lantern? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Filled with what material? A. Ker-
osene oil.
Q. A round wick or straight wick? A.
Straight wick.
Q. Was the lantern clean—was it in or-
der? A. It shone a pretty good light; I
don’t know whether it was clean or not.
Q. Who had the lantern when you came
back? A. I don’t know; I could not say;
I don’t remember who carried the lantern.
Q. Then, when you came back is the
time that you noticed what you have al-
ready described of the body? A. Yes, sir.
HE NOTICED BLOOD.
Q. Did you notice when you came back
any blood? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was that? A. On her head
and on the ground.
Q. On the head and on the ground? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Over what portion of the head did
you notice the blood? A. Back of the
right ear.
Q. You must have raised the body up.
A. No, sir.
Q. The body lay on the right side? A.
You could see the blood all around the
hair on the ground.
Q. You could see blood as the body lay
there on the right face, on the back of the
neck? A. Towards the back you could
see blood.
Q. You must have noticed whether she
had a hat on, or not? A. I don’t remembº
noticing it. I don't remember a thing
* the hat, only seeing it there back of
er.
Q. Did you notice whether there was
any blood on the hat? A. I did not notice.
Q. Or on the ribbons of the hat? A. I.
did not notice.
Q. Did you do anything to the body,
you, gentlemen, at that time? Did you
straighten it out? What did you do? A. I.
just took hold of her left hand, felt of her
pulse, and raised her up slightly. That is
all I done, and I think my brother-in-law
touched her face.
Q. What was her temperature? Was her
hand gloved or bare? A. She had a mit-
ten on.
º Did you take the mitten off? A. No,
sir.
Q. What was the temperature? A. I
should judge about medium. She was
neither cold nor Warm.
Q. There was warmth in the body, but
not cold 2 A. As warm as I was, I guess,
all right enough. It was a cold night.
Q. Was the body warm? A. I could not
say whether it was warm or not; I should
judge it was about medium.
Q. Did you try to feel the pulse? A.
Yes, sir, tried to feel it.
Did you discover it? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you straighten out her dress or
cloak over her limbs? A. No, sir.
Q. Did any one? A. No, sir, not that I
know of.
Q. Was her body left just in that condi-
tion? A. Yes, until I got back. I went
over a mile and a half from there; did not
stay there more than two or three min-
utes.
Q. Now, you suppose the woman had
fallen out of a wagon? A: I did.
Q. Did you look for a wagon track or
for any tracks about there? A. No, sir, I
did not.
Q. Did your brother or brother-in-law?
A.. I think he did.
Q. Which one? A. Both of them.
Q. Did they find any? A. I don’t know.
Q. Did you hear any talk about tracks
here while you were there? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you present when they looked
for the tracks? A. No, sir.
Q. Where had you gone? A. Had gone
after the police officers.
WAS GONE HALE AN HOUR.
Q. If I understand you, after you came
back and found the body, and found it
was the body of a woman, you went away
somewhere? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Tell the jury where you went—you
did tell them you run up to the junction
somewhere. How long were you gone from
the body? A. About half an hour.
Q. When you came back did anybody
come with you? A. Yes, sir.



OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 25
Q: Who was it? A. Two police officers
and a patrol wagon.
Q: What were their names? A: I don't
know what their names were.
Mr. Nye-Fox and Moore the names.
Mr. Erwin–Was the body in the same
condition when you got back as it was
when you left it? A. Yes, sir; I think it
was.
Q. Did you then examine with the offi-
cers for any tracks? A. No, sir.
Q. Or tracks of a wagon? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see them examine? A. I
don’t remember seeing them.
Q. Were you there when the body was
put in the wagon? A: Yes.
Q. You saw all that was done by the
officers to the body? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did they do when they got back
there? A. They waited until the doctor
came. He came over and examined her and
the officers picked her up and put her in
the wagon.
Q. Did the doctor examine her? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did he open the clothing? A. I think
he did.
Q. So as to listen at her heart? A. I.
think so.
Q. When did you notice the hat? A.
Right after I got back.
Q. After you got back from going for the
officers? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have heard when that hat was
found? A. I have not; I don't remember
hearing anything.
Mr. Nye-That entire 65 feet of the width
that you speak of in the road was all trav-
eled, that is, beaten, wasn't it? A. No,
sir.
Q. About how wide was the roadway—
that is, such as was used and traveled?
A. It is all road to travel, but they drive
on one side of the road.
Q. It can all easily be traveled? A. Yes.
Q. When you put your hand on her face
she was at that time lifeless, so far as you
could observe? A. So far as I could ob-
serve. she was.
Q. When you returned with your friends
and made further examination you saw
no signs of life? A. No, sir.
Q. The body was limp and lifeless, so
far as you could observe? A. It was.
PETER FOX'S TESTIMONY.
Peter Fox sworn.
Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Your full name is what? A. Peter
Fox.
Q. You are a police officer in this city?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And were on the 3d day of December
a police officer? A. Yes.
Q. What were your duties? A. At the
central police station.
Q. Do you remember the occasion of the
evening of the 3d of December; was there
anything unusual, any notice given to head-
quarters concerning an accident out at the
lake? A. Yes.
Q. Were you at the headquarters when
that word was received? A. I was at the
central police station.
Q. I mean the central police station—at
what time was word received there? A.
Five minutes to 9, I think.
Q: What did you then do? A well, we
got a telephone that there was an accident
ºut near Lake Calhoun-supposed to be an
want to ride,
accident—and hitched the horses up as soon
as I could and drove out there; at the
same time we got word to stop at a drug
store at Lake street and Hennepin avenue,
that there was a young man to meet us
there to take us out where the body lay;
that he was there trying to get a doctor.
So I drove out there and waited there
three or four minutes and Mr. Erhardt
came along and said he was down to see
Dr. Russell and he was going to drive
out, and so we got in the wagon and
drove there.
Q. Who was with you? A. Officer Moore.
Q. At the drug store you speak of, you
took in Erhardt? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And drove to what point? A. Drove
out, I should judge, a half a mile on the
other side of where the street car goes
across the hill.
Q. You have heard the testimony of Er-
hardt? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Did you see the location which he
pointed out, on which the body was
found? A. I heard him testify to the lo-
cation.
Q. On the west side of the lake in the
vicinity of the swamp there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you find there? A. We
drove out there and just on the other side
of the lake about a quarter of a mile
we met three men going out that way.
They asked us where we were going and I
told them, and asked them if they did not
and they said yes and
they jumped in and rode out that way;
and when we got out there there was
three men there with lanterns. So I
drove up alongside of the road and stop-
ped the horses and got out, and I looked
at the body, and it looked as if it was dead
and finally I felt of the wrist here, and it
seemed to be kind of warm, and then I
put my hand in under the clothing and in
under the sleeve. It was warm also down
in here. It was still warm there.
Q. Under the collar? A. Under the col-
lar; and then where the body was laying
there, the head was towards the west and
the feet towards the east, towards the
lake.
Q. Do you know where the house stands
on the rise beyond 2 A. I did not at that
time, but I was out there the next morn-
ing.
Q. The head was towards those houses?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The general direction? A. Yes.
Q. Who else came there while you were
there, any one? I think there was an–
other man or two came there.
Q. Do you know Dr. Russell? A. Yes,
yes, he came.
Q. How long after you got there was it
that he canne? A. I think it was about
10 minutes; Dr. Russell and his son drove
out in a buggy.
Q. When you felt of the wrist you felt
no pulse, did you? A. No, sir.
NO SIGNS OF LIFE.
Q How long did you remain there, and
what was done? A. We remained there, I
guess, about a half or three-quarters of
an hour. After the doctor came and he ex-
amined the body and looked at it, I asked
him if there were any signs of life and he
said no.
Q. What did you finally do with the
body? A. We took the lantern and looked
all around to see any foot prints or any



26 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
|
|
marks of any kind, and we did not happen
to find any.
Q. You could not find any? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you do with the body? A.
Took the body and put it in the patrol
wagon and fetched it down to the county
ºn Orgue. -
Q. The county morgue at the court
house? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know about the time that
you arrived here at the morgue? A.. I
think it was 10 minutes to 11.
Q. Do you know who was at the morgue
when you got there? A. There was a man
in charge there, I think his name was
Welch; there was another man there with
him at that time; I don’t know his name.
Q. O’Brien? A. I don’t think his name
was O’Brien. I know a man by the name
of O’Brien. He came there afterwards.
Q What was done after the body was
placed in the morgue? A. After the body
was placed in the morgue it was put on
the slab there, and we went to work talk-
ing the clothes off.
Q. Was any notice sent to the cororner
or any one? A. Yes; I telephoned for the
coroner from the drug store at Lake street
and Hennepin to be at the morgue, that
there was a woman that was supposed to
be killed by a runaway horse, and we were
going to take her to the morgue, and have
him to get there as soon as he could.
Q. Had he arrived at the morgue when
you returned? A. No, sir; it must have
been half an hour or 20 minutes after we
got there,
Q. Do you think it was half an hour
after you got back with the body? A. Yes.
sir.
Q. You got back a little before 11. A.
About 10 minutes before 11.
You remained at the morgue, did
you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you there during the time that
Dr. Spring was there, that is, the coroner?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he the first one to examine the
body with reference to the cause of death?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were present at that examina-
tion? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know what you found that
was unusual? A. Well, after the coroner
had come we were talking in the office a
few minutes before we went in there. Then
we went in to look at the body, and the
left eye was hanging out on the nose, with
the eye that way, and says he, “Here is
a piece of bone,” and with his fingers here
(illustrating), takes it out and says, “That
is a bullet, a piece of lead.” He then turn-
ed the head to one side and I saw the bul-
let hole back of the ear
Q. The right ear? A. Yes.
Q. That, as I understand you, would be
about in the vicinity of a quarter past or
half past 11? A. Yes, sir; somewhere about
that.
AT THE MORGUE.
Q. That, so far as you know, was the
first discovery made of the fact that she
had been shot? A. Yes.
Q. How long after that did you remain
at the morgue? A. Well, I was probably
there 10 minutes or so, maybe a little long-
er. We stopped talking in there quite a
few minutes.
Q. Do you know whether any one dur-
ing that time arrived at the morgue who
recognized the body? A. No, sir. -
. Had any one recognized the body u
to the time that the doctor had found the
bullet? A. No, sir.
Q. Had any one recognized the body, so
far as you know, up to the time that you
left the morgue? A. Not any more than
to find on a piece of clothing the initials
of “Ging,” which was on one part of the
clothes.
Q. Do you know what time that was
found 2 A. That was after the doctor's ex-
annination, and then he went to examine
the clothes and he found this name on there
on one of the pieces of clothing.
Q. What time did you leave the morgue?
A. It must have been about a quarter of
12, I think somewheres there.
Q. At that time the body had not been
recognized further than the finding of that
name by the doctor on the clothing? A.
No, sir.
Q. No one had come to the morgue who
recognized the body? A. No, sir; there was
no one there except two reporters, two or
three.
Q. Did you go from the morgue, drive to
the central police station? A. No, sir; I
went direct to police headquarters.
Q. How long did you remain there? A.
I remained there I guess half an hour.
Q. Did you that night, after leaving the
morgue, at police headquarters, or anywhere
else, see the defendant, Harry Hayward?
A. No, sir; I did not see him that night.
Q. When did you see him first? A. I
saw him the next morning.
Q. What time? A. It must be some-
wheres about half past 9 or 10 o'clock.
CROSS-EXAMINED.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. How far did you examine around the
body for tracks? A. Oh, probably half an
block or so—a couple of hundred feet, may-
be.
Q. Did you find where the wagon had
turned around 2 A. I did not find it that
night.
Q. I mean that night? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not examine that day? A.
No, sir; it might have been there, but we
did not notice it in the dark; just had a
small lantern.
Q. Were you there the next day? A. Yes.
Q. What time? A. Started out there the
next morning about a quarter to 7, I should
think.
Q. Who was with you? A. Lieut. Goskin.
Q. Did you examine as to tracks, for
wagon tracks? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you find in reference to
these? A. We found about 30 or 40 feet, I
should judge, where there was a buggy
track, where a buggy turned around and
went back this way.
Q. What did you find with reference to
men's tracks at that point? A. Of course,
there were lots of men's tracks around
there. -
Q. Describe what you saw.
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Mr. Erwin–I can recall him.
The Court—I can’t see how.
Mr. Erwin–I will tell you how: Because
the tracks found were long pointed tracks,
of which no man there wore the sºoe.










OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 27
Q. I will ask you, did you notice any
long-pointed shoe tracks? A: Yes, sir.
objected to as immaterial and leading.
Overruled. -
Had the horse turned from right to
left or left to right? A: I should think it
went around on the right and turned down;
it looked to me as if it was going down
and turned around, going east again.
Q. Which way did it turn, the right or
left? A. It turned to the left.
Q. And the turning was West of where
the body lay? A. Yes, west. Of course,
I could not tell you that exactly. I did
not notice the horse's feet, which way the
track went, but the way the tracks were
it looked turned to the left.
Q. The man's tracks? A. No, sir; the
horse's tracks. I did not notice the foot
mark of shoes. I did not notice that, so I
don't know it for certain, but I should
judge it turned that way.
Q. Did you hear the testimony of Mr.
Erhardt? A. Yes, this morning.
Q. Did he give a true description of the
way the body lay? A. With one exception.
What is that? A. That is the way
the face lay on the ground.
Q. How did it lay? A. It lay the left
side next to the ground.
Q. Not on the right side? A. No, sir.
Q. Which way was the face to the com-
pass? I understand, if laying, this side is
next to the ground, would the rest of the
face on the ground be pointing north,
south, east or west? A. It would be kind
of pointing that way going west.
Q. Did the body lay up and down the
road, or across the road diagonally? A.
Laid up and down the road east and west.
Q. With the head to the west? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And the face would then be looking
to the north 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much of the left of the face was
on the ground? A. Well, just part; this
part here of the forehead touched the
ground. (Illustrating.) The robe Was
under the body, and just laid in about that
position. (Illustrating.)
Q. The robe was under the body? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Describe how the robe was. A. The
robe laid between the shoulders and \this
part of the body here.
Q. Any robe about the body? A. No,
sir; right under the body; either side of it.
Q. Did you notice whether the body had
a hat on? A. No, sir! it had not at that
time.
Q. Did you notice where the hat was
first? A. Yes.
Q. Where was it first? A. Right back
of the left shoulder.
Q. How far from the shoulder? A. It
was right back, probably a few inches; I
picked the hat up and laid it on the body.
Q. What kind of a hat was it? A. Sailor
hat.
Q. Was it crushed? A. Well, it did not
appear to be.
Q. How was it fastened on the head? A.
I don’t know.
Q. Did it have strings? A. I don’t think
so; I think it was fastened with a pin
through the hair.
Q. Was the pin through the hat? A. I.
did not notice that; I did not take particu-
lar notice.
Q. How did the hat lay or face on top?
A. It lay about that way (illustrating),
tipped up and lay alongside of the body.
Q. It laid as if placed on the body? A.
No, sir; it lay on the side of the body,
just the same as if this was brought up
and the hat laid against it that way (illus-
trating).
Q. Crown down or up? A. It is a round
hat.
Q. Crown up or down, as it laid. A. I.
did not notice that.
Q. When did you first notice the hat?
A. When I went up to the body.
Q. Do you recollect how the hair was
done up—did the body have any long hair?
A. I could not tell; I did not notice par-
ticularly whether it was or not.
Q. Did you notice whether it was down
or on the top of the head? A. It seems to
me it was down, back here. ((Illustrating.)
Q. You found nothing else there except
what you have described 2 A. That is all.
You met nobody there—there was
no person came there that seemed to know
anything about it? A. There was per-
sons came there with me, and the two men
were there at the time we went there.
Q. Those two men you picked up—do you
know who they were? A. There Was
three. I think they have got their names.
I think one is Jones, a marble dealer in
the city, and the other two I was not ac-
quainted with.
Q. There were three of them. A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Where did you meet them? A. Met
them just on the other side of the lake.
Q. Where were they going? A. They
were going out there beyond.
. Had they heard of the accident? A.
They had heard of it, yes, sir; they had
heard of it at the drug store at the time
this Mr. Erhardt had telephoned, and
Walked out in that direction.
Q. Were they possessed of any informa-
tion? A. Not that I know of.
Q. Now, at the morgue, when did you
first hear whose rig it was that was prob-
ably connected with the accident? A. I.
did not hear about it until night; not until
after I got from the morgue some time.
Q. After you got back from the morgue
to police headquarters? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you heard anything about any
notification from the livery stable? A. No,
Sir.
Q. Were there many people came to the
morgue between the time that the body
was brought there and the time that you
all left? A. No, sir; I think there was a
couple or three reporters. I think there
was another man that lives there some
place close by.
Q. There were not very many people?
A. No, sir.
Q. Well, you started about 3 o'clock and
went to bed 2
CHARLES H. MOORE’S TESTIMONY.
Charles H. Moore, sworn.
Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. You are a police officer in the city?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were your duties, where were
you located Dec. 3, what part of the city?
A. At the Central police station.
Q. You have heard the testimony of Of-
ficer Fox? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at the station at the time




28 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
word was received of a supposed accident
at Lake Calhoun ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you accompany Officer Fox in the
patrol wagon to the place? A. Yes, I
drove the wagon; I drove the team that
night.
Q. State what you did when you got to
that point; what you found. A. We found
—at the point where we found the body?
Q. Yes. A. Down where we found the
body we found the woman laying on the
ground, laying partly on her left side, and
the left side of her face on the ground
partially, and her face to the north, her
feet to the west, laying east and west in
the road, probably about seven or eight
feet from the right hand side of the road
going out, and the hat was laying right
back when we first saw her.
Q. Back of her head? A. No, sir; right
at the back of her left shoulder, leaning
partly against the body.
Who was there when you got there?
A. There were two gentlemen there with
lanterns; as I understood afterwards, one
of the names was Erhardt, and the other
was Naegel.
Q. Did you know Dr. Russell? A.
sir.
Q. Was he there during the time that
you were there? A. He was there in abºut
10 minutes; he came, he and his son,
about 10 minutes after we got there.
Q. He made an examination, did he? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. To ascertain if there was any life? A.
Yes. -
Q: Did he pronounce her dead? A. Yes,
he said that he could not feel any warmth
only under her clothing.
Q. How long did he remain there on that
day after that? A. I could not tell exactly
how long, but should think in the neigh-
borhood of 20 minutes, or 25; possibly a lit-
tle longer and possibly not so long, but
remained there 25 or 30 minutes.
Q: What was done with the body? A.
Put the body on the stretcher and took it
to the morgue. -
Q. This morgue here? A. Yes, this coun-
ty morgue.
Q. This place that you describe where
you found this body was in this city and
county and state? A. Yes, sir, on the
northwest corner of Lake Calhoun.
Q. How long did you remain at the
morgue after you got there? A: I did not
remain there only about five minutes; Of-
ficer Fox took charge of the body and I
went directly to the station; took the
team. -
Q. Do you know about what time you
reached the morgue? A. About 11, I think,
anout that time.
Q. You stayed there about five minutes
and then drove the team back to the cen-
tral station 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you remain at the cen-
tral station 2 A. Hemained there the re-
mainder of the night, after 11 o'clock; got
there at 11 and remained all night after
that, with the exception of a few minutes
I was away.
Q. Do you know the defendant, Harry
Hayward? A. Yes, sir. º
Q. Did you see him after you returned
to the station? A. Yes; about 20 minutes
to 12 I saw him. -
Q. Was he in company with any one? A.
Yes,
He was; the gentleman that I understand
was Mr. Goosman, young Mr. Goosman.
Q. State what the conversation there was
with Mr. Hayward, what he said to you
and what his appearance was at that
time. A. He was with the jailor a few
minutes, but the jailer asked me to de-
scribe to him the way the woman was
dressed. I told him I would in a minute—
I was just feeding the horses—and I then
described as best I could. I told him she
had on a shirt waist and a black skirt
with small, fine black stripes on the waist.
Hayward said it was not a black skirt,
that it looked black in the night, but it
was blue, and then he described it just
exactly as near as anybody could; said she
was dressed with a seal skin sack.
Q. Who said that? A. Hayward said she
was dressed with a seal skin sack and a
dark skirt, a skirt with fine stripes on it,
and a sailor hat, and had woolen mittens
on her hands. That is the way he de-
scribed it.
Q. Was anything said with reference to
the cause of the accident, or whether it
was an accident? A. He said that it was
not an accident; that she had been killed
for her money.
Q. At that time did you suppose it to be
an accident? A. I supposed it to be an ac-
cident—no, not at that time—just a few
minutes before that we heard from the
morgue that it was not an accident be-
cause we had heard the report that Of-
ficer Fox gave from the morgue of the cor-
oner's examination.
Q. Officer Fox had not returned after
half past 11? A. No, sir, he had not re-
turned, but he telephoned; he was over at
headquarters and telephoned at headquar-
ters and we heard from that.
Q. Was that before this conversation
with Harry? A. No, sir; that was just after
this conversation.
Q. And before you had learned anything
further than that it was an accident? A.
Yes, we had not learned then that it was
anything more than an accident when he
was talking.
Q. State now, as near as you can, what
that conversation was; what he said to
you and how he appeared at that time.
A. He first asked if the wagon had got
back and I told him it had, and then I
don’t know the conversation he had. He
said the woman's name was Miss Ging—
he knew it was her; that there was no
question but that she had been killed for
her money. The jailor said to him that he
should think that she would not be so care-
less as to carry money enough on her per-
son to tempt anybody to kill her for her
money. He said no, it was not money that
she carried on her person; it was outside
money, other money; it was not anything
that sne would carry on her.
Q. Harry said that? A. Yes.
Q. Anything further? A. Yes, about that
time there was a knock came on the door
and the lieutenant and Officer Courtney,
Lieut. Coskran and Officer Courtney came
to the door to get the horse and go out
to where the accident occurred and Mr.
Hayward and Mr. Goosman walked out to
the door and I went to open the door.
Q. That ended the conversation? A. That
ended the conversation.
Q. How did Hayward lock and appear at





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 22
that time? A. He appeared very nervous,
as ºf something had happened unusual.
Q. were you acquainted with him be-
fore? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear any of the conversation
between him and Officer Courtney? A. No,
sir. I told them when they came to the
door, I told them there was a gentleman
going out there that knew all about it and
was telling us about it, outside, and they
hurried out and as soon as they could get
ready they went out after him. I did not
hear any of the conversation afterwards.
Q. who was present and heard this con-
versation that you have related? A. Of-
ficer McKenna, the jailor.
Q. Anyone else? A. No, sir, except Mr.
Goosman, Mr. Hayward—four of us were
there.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You were not there when the body
was examined at the morgue? A. No, sir.
Q: Who were those men that you picked
up to take out in the wagon? A: I do not
remember the names of but one; one of
the names was Jones.
Q: What was his first name? A: I don't
know his first name; he was of Jones Bros.,
marble men, down on First avenue, be-
tween Third street and Washington. That
was the only man I know the name of.
Q. You don't know the other two men? A.
No sir.
Q. Were you out there the next morning
when vou examined the place with the
other officers? A. I did not go out there the
next morning. -
Q. Now, you were the driver of the pa-
trol wagon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were at police headquarters when
Hayward and young Goosman came in 2 A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Had you before that time learend it
was one of Goosman’s rigs that run away,
or the accident happened with? A. No,
sir; not before they came there.
Q. You learned then? A. Yes, sir.
Q: Who told you about it? A. Mr.
Goosman told me about it, and also Mr.
Hayward was talking about it; they were
together.
Q. They knew all about it—did they tell
about the condition in which the wagon
was º A. Yes.
Q. And that it had been taken out by
Miss Catherin Ging? A. Yes, I think they
did.
Q. And that the wagon was bloody? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And they knew from the other end of
this catastrophe what had taken place? A.
Yes, they talked as if they did.
Q. They were down there to inquire about
it—they came in and asked you about it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did Mr Hayward tell you that he
wanted to see Chief Hoyº A. No, sir, not
that I remember.
Q. Did he tell you that he wanted to see
the chief detectives, or anything of that
kind? A. No, sir, he did not say anything
about it that I remember; did not mention
to see anybody that I know of.
Q. Now, he said to you that this woman
had been murdered? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And upon your stating to him that
it was strange the woman should carry
money, that was when it was said 2 A.
The jailor said that he would not think a
woman would carry money enough on her
person to tempt a person to murder her.
He said it was not that, it was other
money; it was not money she carried on
her person.
Q. You did not understand what he
meant by that? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not know? A. I did not know
anything about it; I did not know.
Q. Well, did young Goosman do any talk-
ing? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He talked about the matter, inquiring
in the same way? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In the same way Hayward did? A.
Yes, sir.
DIDN'T THINK IT. A RUNAWAY.
Q. Inquiring about it? A. Yes, sir, only
he told the condition, and he said he did
not think it could be a runaway because
the horse came in perfectly quiet and cool;
he said it must have happened some other
way than a runaway, because he said he
did not think the horse would run away,
because he did not have that appearance.
Q. Then both Hayward and Goosman
were there at the time conversing and giv-
ing their opinion that they did not think it
was as you thought it was? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But thought that it was something
more serious? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But Hayward blurted out and said it
was for money? A. Yes, sir, that is the
way he expressed himself; he said it was no
accident.
Q. So it was Hayward who put you on
the cue that this woman was murdered? A.
Well, yes; from his remarks.
Q. You say he acted unusual, as though
something had happened? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And his manner bore out this state-
ment? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And both were given
condition? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Goosman was in the same way—
excited? A. He was excited, curious.
Q. Now, before Hayward left did Me-
Kenna have a talk with him, in your
presence? A. Well, yes; he talked some
with him.
Q. Did they tell him that they had found
the name “Ging” on the clothes? A. No,
sir; not as I know of.
Q. Did he tell him the woman was shot?
A. No, sir; he did not say she was shot.
Q. Well, before he went away, I don't
mean the first conversation, but before he
left the headquarters, was he talking about
it? A: I don't know as he said at any
time that she was shot.
Q. But he said she was killed for her
money. I am talking about McKenna. A.
No, sir; not as I know of.
Q: Did McKenna inform Hayward in your
presence? A. No, sir; I don't know that he
informed him of anything of the kind.
Q: Did you know, about that time, or
before Hayward left the headquarters—that
was the police headquarters? A. The cen-
tral station.
Q. Well, did you know before Hayward
left the central station that night, on his
first visit there, did you know that the
clothing had been found to have the name
“Ging' upon them? A. No, sir.
Q: Did you know that the woman had
been found to be shot? A. Yes, before he
left.
Q. Then it
A. Yes, sir
in a natural
was known at the station?



30 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT:
Q. But you don’t know whether McKen-
na, told him or not? A. No, sir, I do not
know as he did.
Q. Where you in there all the time while
he was in, or not? A. I was in there all
the time after I went there, and so was
Mr. Hayward and I saw him there until
Mr. Hayward and Goosman went out; they
went out about the same time.
Then, without going over it, I under-
stand you to say that Goosman told you
how the rig had gone out of the barn, and
how it had returned and what its condi-
tion was 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that Miss Ging had taken it out?
A. Yes, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Did you know Miss Ging in her life
time. A. No, sir.
Mr. Nye. I believe that is all.
Henry Goosman
Sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Goosman, where do you live? A.
At the Ozark flats.
Q. The Ozark flats is the place that has
been described here as the residence be-
longing to W. W. Hayward? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Father of Harry Hayward. A. Yes,
sir.
Q. On Thirteenth street and Hennepin
avenue? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you lived there? A.
Year ago last May—two years this coming
May.
Q. What is your business, Mr. Goosman?
A. Carriage agent at the West Hotel.
Q. Agent for what establishment? A.
The Palace Stables.
Q. Where is that? A. On Grant street
and Nicollet.
Q. Grant street and Nicollet? A. Just off
of Nicollet.
Q. Between Nicollet and First avenue
south 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is owned by your father? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And in connection with that you run
this agency down at the West Hotel? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Carriage delivery, is it? A. Yes, sir.
. How long have you done so? A. Since
the first of November.
Q. Did you know Miss Catherine Ging in
her life time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see her in the early evening
of the 3d of December? A. No, sir—yes, sir,
I did.
Q. Did you have any transaction With
her at that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. State what it was and the hour? A:
5:15, about 5:15 in the afternoon of Decem-
ber 3d, Miss Ging came to the hotel and
ordered a horse and buggy for that even-
ing at 7 o'clock.
Q. Anything said with regard to what
kind of a horse she wanted? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, state what was said? A. Well,
she wanted the horse she named, a buck-
skin mare by the name of Lucy.
Q. Lucy? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had she had that horse before? A:
Yes, sir.
Q. Well, was that substantially the con-
versation you had with her at that time?
A. Yes, sir. -
Q. That was about 5:15 in the afternoon,
in the evening? A. Yes, sir.
And she ordered it for
where? A. At the West Hotel.
7 o’clock,
DELIVERING THE HORSE.
Q. Well, what did you do, if anything, in
reference to delivering the horse? A. Well,
I telephoned to the stable that I wanted
Lucy at the West Hotel at 7 o'clock in the
evening; I left at 5:30 for my supper, and
then I arrived home and I was there about
half an hour, almost ready to leave home,
and my father, Mr. Goosman, drove up,
came to the house, and he says, “I have
Lucy here with me, you can take her down
to save any one from delivering her later
on.” I was about ready to leave then.
Q. Well, what time did you leave and
what did you do? A. I left, I should
judge, about 6:15.
Q. Left the Ozark. A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was where you took supper?
A. Yes, sir. - -
Q. In the Ozark block?
Ozark block.
Q. And you left at 6? A. About 6:15.
Q. What did you do? A. I drove this
horse to the West Hotel, tied her on the
Fifth street side with a weight, threw the
robe over her, and left her standing on
the Fifth street side, went into the hotel
and attended to my business there.
Q. Well, how long did the horse remain
there, and how long were you in the hotel
before anything was done with the horse?
A. I was sitting at the desk in the hotel
after 7 o'clock, not paying any attention
to the time, and I happened to think, and
I looked up and saw that it was eight min-
utes past 7 by the hotel clock. I then
thought it was time for her to be there,
and so I walked out to the rig and she
was coming across the street at the time
and was pretty near there by the time I
got to the rig. She came up; I took the
weight off the horse and then took off the
robe, and I threw it into the buggy and
then she got into the buggy and started:
off.
Q. You had no conversation with her
before she started 2 A. She asked how
Lucy was, and I said she was all right;
that is all she said.
Q. Was there any remarks about being
late, anything of that sort? A. No, sir.
Q. From what direction did she come
when she got into the buggy 2 A. She
came down Fifth street from towards Nic-
ollet.
Q. Walking on Fifth street from towards
Nicollet? A. Yes, sir.
Q. On which side of the crossing? A.
When I first saw her she was leaving the
opposite side on her way across.
Q. Describe the horse and carriage, Mr.
Goosman? A. Well, she is a buckskin
mare, light colored, weighs about 1,000
pounds, and the bugy was a side bar top
buggy, red running gear, with the curtains
dropped.
Q. The side curtains were dropped? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And the back curtains were on? A-
Yes, sir.
Q. No opening?
A. In the
A. No, sir.
Q. The top was up? A. No, sir.
Q. What? A. No, sir.
Q. The top was swung back? A. Half
down.
Q. At that time? A. Yes, sir.
THE HORSE GENTLE.
Q. This horse that you speak of, what
was her nature? Was she a gentle horse?
A. She was very gentle and quiet.








OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 31
Q. A good driver? A: Yes, sir.
G. speedy, was she? A. No, sir; she
was a fair roadster.
Q. Believe you said she had driven her
before? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You know when that horse returned
to the barn? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What time? A: I should judge about
9:10; somewhere in that neighborhood.
Were you there? A. I was—well, I
had been there, but I had just left the
stable for a minute, and I was around the
corner at Kelley & Thompson's drug store,
the third door from the corner, at that
time.
Q. You were not there when the horse
drove into the barn, or came in? A. No,
sir.
Q. How long after did you see the
horse? A. I did not see the horse that
evening that I know of.
Q. What? A. I say I don’t remember
of seeing the horse that evening that I
know of.
Q. But you know that the horse came in
while you were absent? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long were you absent from the
barn at that time? A. About 20 minutes
or so.
Q. So, from your knowledge, you can-
not say whether the horse came in with a
driver or not? A. No, sir.
Q. When did you see the horse and car-
riage? A. Well, I saw the carriage about
11 o'clock; about five minutes afterwards
or so; less time than that; I was called by
the officer, Joe Hopp, to come and look at
the buggy.
Q. Was the top up then? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were the side curtains up and the
back curtains down? A. Yes, sir; that is,
they were closed.
Q. Did you then know what had oc-
curred? A. No, sir.
Q: What did you do then? A. Well, of
course, there was some opinion passed in
the stable there among us in looking at
the buggy; probably a few minutes; I did
not know what to think it was. First I
thought it might have been a hemmorage;
some one might have had a hemmorage.
The Court. A little louder, Mr. Goosman;
some of those gentlemen are sitting a good
ways back there.
Q. Speak louder. A. Yes, sir. And I had
an idea it might have been some one that
was hurt at the time, and they were car-
ried in the buggy. And I got that idea into
my head and I telephoned to the police
headquarters if any one was hurt during
the evening, or if an accident had happened
anywhere. And I was informed that some
one was hurt, as I understood it, at Lake
Harriet.
Q. Now, what time was this, Mr. Goos-
man? A: Well, I could not say. It might
have been 9:30, somewhere in that neighbor-
hood. -
Q. You telephoned from the barn? A.
Yes, sir, and they said there was an acci-
dent, that a runaway had occurred and
there was an accident at Lake Harriet,
º that the wagon had gone out at that
ne.
TELEPHONED SOME MORE.
Q. Then what did you do after that—
what did you further do? A. Well, I tele-
phoned two or three different times to see
whether the wagon had got back, and it
had not got back, so I left word at the
lockup over the telephone to call up the
stable and give them the name when the
wagon returned.
Q. Then, what further did you do? A: I
stayed around there a while after tele-
phoning and it got to be along about 10:30,
about that time in the evening.
Q. Well, go on? A. And I left for home,
the Ozark. -
Q. You went back to the Ozark? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you go to the Ozark? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. About what time did you arrive at the
Ozark? A. I should judge about 20 min-
utes of 11.
Q. Well, what did you do there or ascer-
tain? A. Well, as I got to the building I
met Officer Britt at the corner opposite the
block, and I asked him whether he had seen
the wagon return yet, and he said no, he
had seen it go out Hennepin, but he had
not seen it return yet.
Q. He had seen it go out Hennepin’? A.
Yes, sir. And we had a conversation in re-
gard to the condition of the buggy and
thought somebody was hurt, something had
happened; and we stood there and talked
a few minutes probably. And then I asked
him to go up to his box where they report,
on the corner of Twelfth street and tele-
phone the police headquarters and see
whether they had got back yet or not. He
says, “Isn’t there a telephone in the block?”
I says “Yes.” He says, “We will go up
there,” and I says “All right.” So we went
up on the second floor of the Ozark Block
and we telephoned the police headquarters,
he did, rather, to find out whether the
wagon had returned, and they gave him
the answer that it had and that the party
was dead and had gone to the morgue at
that time.
Q. What occurred later? A. We stayed
there for a few minutes and telephoned to
the morgue to get a description of the body
if possible, and they could not give us any
description. I telephoned the second time,
they were just unloading and they hadn't
time to give a description of the body. So
by that time we had stopped and talked
about it, did not know what to make of it,
did not know what to think, when some
one entered the building on the first floor
and got into the elevator; the elevator had
been waiting for me at the scond floor and
Went down into the basement.
Q. Do you know who that was 2 A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Who was it? A. Harry Hayward.
Q. Do you know who occupied the base-
ment? A. The engineer at that time.
Q. What is his name? A. Blixt.
Q. How long before you saw Harry Hay-
ward again after he went down? A. Oh,
four to five minutes, I should judge; prob-
ably a little less than that.
HAYWARD WAS EXCITED.
Q. Then what occurred? A. He came up
to the second floor and wanted to know
what the trouble was, what all of this tele-
phoning was about; he seemed to be lit-
tle excited. I told him there was nothing
particular, only a party had got hurt. I
hesitated in saying anything on account of
being told the Saturday night before by
Miss Ging not to say anything to Harry
about her going out riding.
Q. Miss Ging had had the horse the Sat-





º OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
urday evening previous? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that this same horse? A. No, sir.
Q. That was another horse? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, what did you finally say and
what was the conversation? A. Well, to
the best of my recollection he asked me the
second time, and I finally told him that Miss
Ging had gone out riding during the even-
ing, and described the condition of the
buggy when it came in alone without a
driver into the stable, and she was missing.
By that time we had reached the first floor,
the ground floor, and he was rather ex-
cited in his conversation and the remarks
he made.
Q. State now what was said and done? A.
Well, he said, “How many times has she
been going out this way?” I said, “This is
the third time that I know of.” And he
says, “I wish I had known it.” He says,
“They are trying to do me up for my
money.” And the conversation was carried
on, and he said, “God damn it, two thou-
sand dollars gone to hell; what a fool I
have been.”
Q. About what time was it that Harry re-
turned in the block there? A. Well, I
should judge it was just shortly after 11.
You had not been able to ascertain
any of the circumstances at that time? A.
No, sir. I then wanted Harry to go to the
police headquarters with me, or to the
morgue.
Q. Now, have you stated all the con-
versation and all that he said 2 A. Well,
the best that I can remember now, he said
a good deal.
Q. Well, can’t you think? A. He want-
ed to show me the notes he received that
day from her. He said he had a suspicion
all day that something was wrong, and ne
wanted to show me the notes. I told him
I did not want to see them. And he had a
bundle of 1etters in his hand that he had
got from the inside of his coat, and he re-
placed them.
Q. Did he in that conversation converse
any further with you in relation to his
business relations with herº A. Well, yes,
I believe he did.
Q. Now state, Mr. Goosman, as far as
you can, what the conversation was? A.
Well, at that time the officer was in the
hall-way, and Mr. Goosman's father had ar-
rived and was standing there at the time
listening to us, and Harry was rather ex-
cited. He started to tell them about
LOANING HER SOME MONEY,
which I didn't pay much attention to, and
that they had been trying to do him up—
there was $2,000 gone.
Q. Was there anything said in reference
to insurance? A. As we were leaving the
block, Harry and I, as we reached the side-
walk, Harry asked me if I thought life in-
surance was good in case of murder, and
I told him I did not know.
Q. Did he say anything further in rela-
tion to the cause of her death than that
some one had done her up, as I understood
you? A. She had been done up for her
money, and that is about the best I can re-
member of anything being said on that part
of it.
Q. You had not before you left the block
ascertained anything with regard to the
cause of death? A. No, sir.
Q. Nothing whatever? A. No, sir. I did
not know at that time who it could be;
I didn't have any idea it was her then-
the same party; I could not.
Q. Is there anything further that occurs
to you that was said before you left the
block by Harry or by yourself? A. No,
sir.
Q. Was he much excited? A. Well, he
seemed to be excited. I never saw him
excited before in my life. He seemed to be
somewhat excited that evening.
Q. Nervous? A. Well, rather, yes.
Q. Well, where did you go from there?
A. We started for the morgue, I had quite
a time getting him to go with me to the
morgue, and I wanted him to go. I wanted
to be satisfied. He didn't want to go, but
I wanted to be satisfied who this party
was; and finally we started for the morgue,
and when we got to the etriner of Hennepin
avenue and Washington and got off the car
there, he says: “We will go in Lockup
alley and probably we can find out there
the description.” So we went to the lockup
and was there informed by the description
of the body, who it was.
Q. Who did you meet at the lockup all-
ley—that is the Central Station, is it not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who did you meet there? A. The
driver of the wagon.
Q. That is this Officer Moore who testi-
fied? A. Yes, sir, and the jailor.
Q. McKenna? A. I don’t know his
name, sir.
Q. Tell us all that you can remember
that Hayward said on the way down there
and there, all the conversation you had?
A. I don’t remember of him saying any-
thing towards that on the way down.
Q. What then was said there? A. When
we first went in I asked the jailor in re-
gard to the party, the description, and he
gave me a description of the party, that
she wore a black dress, sealskin sacque
and a sailor's hat; and then this officer,
the driver, came in and described her
weight, what her weight was; and at that
time Harry claimed that the skirt was not
black but blue, and describing the color of
the waist, of which I did not pay much
attention to.
Q. How long were you at the station?
A. We were there, I should judge, about
15 minutes.
Q. What further was said by Harry, or
the officers, or yourself, in Harry's pres-
ence, in regard to the cause of death? A.
Well, he said he thought she had been done
up for her money. He says: “That is her,
all right; I know it.” He said: “I think
she was done up for her money; she was
done up for her money.” And there was
quite a good deal said there that I didn't
pay much attention to. I only wanted to
get a description of the party to satisfy
myself.
Q. Was that conversation in the pres-
ence of the two officers? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did either of them make the remark
that they did not think a woman would
take money out with her for a ride? A:
Yes, sir. I think one of them made that re-
mark.
Q. And did you hear what
said º A. No, sir.
Do you remember the testimony of
Moore? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And do you recollect the remark that
Harry made at that time that it was not
for the money she had with her at that
time, that it was for other money? A No.
sir, I did not.
Q: Are you able to state anything fur-
Hayward




















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. sº
ther, Mr. Goosman? A: No, sir; not at
present.
Q: What was Harry's appearance and
manner? A. Well, he was a little excited
at times. At the block and at the police
station, the Central station, he seemed to
be a litle excited; but on the way down
on the cars he seemed to be
PERFECTLY COOL.
And I don't think there was anything said
on the way down with regard to the acci-
ent.
". After reaching the station, there, did
you See Officers Courtney and Morrissey?
A. Well, some time after.
Q. How long after? A. I should judge an
hour after—probably three-quarters of an
Our.
". well, when did you first ascertain
and where that it was Miss Ging? A. At
the lock-up; at the Central station.
Q. At the lock-up? A. At the Central
station, yes, sir.
Q. At what time? A. Well, that time I
should judge was close on to 12.
Q. Did you go to the morgue? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not go there at any time? A.
No, sir.
Q: What time did you leave the Central
station? A. Well, I paid no attention to
the time.
Q. Well, about? A. Well, I should judge
about 15 minutes after we arrived; some-
where along about 12.
Q. Then you saw Courtney and Morris-
sey, did you? A. No, sir; we met two re-
porters.
Q. Two reporters? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know who they were? A.
No, sir; I don't know their names.
Q: What conversation was there with
them? A. Well, he asked Harry what he
knew about this, whether he kenw any-
thing about the murder or the accident-
Q: What did he say? A. He said he did.
At that time we were walking over to the
drug store on the corner of First avenue
south and Washington, and we went in
there, and in there the reporter asked
Harry what he knew about it. “Well,”
he says, “I know more about it than any-
one; I know a good deal.” And then he
started to give them information. I
walked around the store. I did not pay
much attention to it at all; my mind was
on the accident, on what had happened.
Q. Did he state any of the details of
his business transactions with her other
than he had loaned her money? A. No,
sir.
Q. Did he say how much he had loaned
her? A. Only in the block, what I heard,
he says, “Two thousand dolars gone to
hell.”
Q. Are you able to recollect any further
statement made by him that nigºt? A. No,
sir.
Q. What time did you return, where did
you go? -
RETURNED TO THE FLATS.
A. We returned with the reporters to
the Ozark flats. They wished to inform
Miss Ireland, the niece of Miss Ging, I
think, in the flats; and when we arrived,
the chief, I think, of police was there
and two or three officers.
Q. The chief of police and two or three
officers? A. Yes, sir; and they were
standing on the second floor, rapping on
some one's door when we arrived. They
were looking for Miss Ireland, I think, or
the niece. And I directed them. I was
at the head of the stairs, standing up on
the stairway to the floor where she lived,
and there they went on and awoke the
young lady and broke the news to her.
Q. Where was Harry in the meantime?
A. Harry was with the party.
Q. Did he go to his room? A. Not at
first, no. They wanted him to wake her be-
cause he knew her, but he did not want to
do it; he hung back; he said he did not
want to break the news to her, and at
that time there was a woman living in the
house that came in that Harry knew, and
Harry asked her to break the news, and
I think he woke Mrs. Murray, and Mrs.
Murray went into the young lady's room
and told her what had happened.
Q. How long did you remain up and how
long did you remain in the company of
Harry then 2 A. Well, I remained in the
company of all of them an hour then; it
was long about 3 o'clock when I went to
bed.
Q. About 3 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You left Harry up? A. Well, I left
Harry up with the reporters and some of
the officers.
Q. Was you there all the time? A. Not
all the time; they were several in the party
there.
Q. This was on what floor? A. The fifth
floor.
Q. Was you on the fifth floor most of the
time that you remained 2 A. All the while.
Q. Do you know whether he left that
floor at any time? A. I think he did go
down.
Q. He was gone some little time, was he?
A. Well, I don’t know. I did not pay any
particular attention to him.
Q. He was still up? A. I don’t think
he was on the floor then. I think he had
gone down some little time before that
and had not returned, with two or three of
the officers.
Q. Did you have any conversation with
him after that? A. No, sir.
Q. That was the last you ever talked with
him in relation to this matter? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Was the horse and buggy returned
into the barn there, the horse and buggy
you delivered to Miss Ging at 7:10 at the
West Hotel? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. What kind of a robe was this? A. A.
gray goat robe.
Q. Was the robe in the buggy when it
returned 2 A. No, sir.
Q. You were with Harry quite a long
while then that night, at the Ozark and on
your way down to the station, at the sta-
tion and on your way coming back, at dif-
ferent places? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At which times he conversed a great
deal about this subject, did he not? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you make any inquiry why he
thought she had been done up? A. No.
sir.
Q. Didn't inquire anything about it? A.
No, sir.
Mr. Nye. That is all.
Mr. Erwin. If your honor please, I should
like to recall Officer Fox for a question
which I omitted; it will only take about a
minute.
The Court. Very well.




34. OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Peter Fox, Recalled.
Examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Officer, I want to ask you about what
was found on the body when it was
searched—were you present when the cloth-
ing was searched, the clothing taken off
the body? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, tell the court and jury what was
found? A. Well, I did not search the body;
it was the man that was in the morgue.
Q. Well, were you present at that
search—
Mr. Erwin. I thought this was the of:
ficer who searched the clothing.
Mr. Nye. No, he is not the man; we
wil have him here, though.
Mr. Erwin. I understand, then, from the
county attorney that the man who made
the search will be produced”
Mr. Nye. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin, Very well, then. Of course
there is no use of going over it until it
may be found necessary. That is all, of
ficer; I thought you we re the man who
searched the body.
Henry G. Goosman, re-called.
Examination by Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Erwin–Have you any further ex-
annination 2
Mr. Nye. That is all.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your age, Mr. Goosman?
A. Twenty-four.
Q. Now, you knew Catherine Ging, did
you not, very well? A. No, not very well.
Q. Well, I don’t mean intimately; but
you knew her as a boarder living at the
Ozark, and a woman who hired rigs of
you at your barn ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, did you know she was a friend
of Harry's 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You knew they were friends? A.Yes, sir.
Q. And went together more or less? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Now, you stated in your examination
that on a Saturday evening she hired a
horse—a different horse from Lucy? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Well, was there anything—did she as-
sign any reason for wanting any particular
horse—anything of the kind? A. She
asked for this bay mare, Kit; she didn't
give any reasons whatever, and I didn't
ask her.
Q. Did she give any reason why she
wanted Cit? A. No, sir.
Q. Lid she make any complaint against
and other horse—anything of the kind?
A. No, sir.
Q. Well, about that time when she hired
the horse you stated in your examination
that she told you to be sure and not tell
Harry she was going out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was this conversation had
with you? A. In the entrance of the West
Hotel, at the desk.
In the entrance of the West Hotel?
Now, what time of day was this? A. I
should judge it was about 5:15; right after
the lights were on.
Q. Where was the horse to be delivered?
A. Right at the hotel.
Q. At the West Hotel? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what were her exact words; I
did not get them? A. She says: “Don’t
say anything to Harry about my going
out,” and she says, “for I don't want him
to know.”
Q. Well, did you observe her caution?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You did not say anything to Harry?
A. No, sir.
Q. And you kept her commission, just as
she ordered, not to tell Harry she was
going out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was the Saturday before? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Had she hired a rig immediately be-
fore that? A. I think it was the 27th of
the month before.
Q. Of October? A Of November.
Q. The 27th of November? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time had she hired the rigº A.
About 8:20 in the evening.
Q. Where was the rig delivered? A. She
called for it at the stable.
º She came to the stable for it? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Were you there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was anything said then about se-
crecy? A. No, sir.
º Nothing on that occasion? A. No,
S11".
Q. The first admonition of secrecy not to
let Harry know anything about it was on
the Saturday before? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when she called on Monday she
called about 5:15? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that admonition repeated? A.
No, sir.
Q. Was anything said in reference to it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you understand that her admoni-
tion ran to all of her drives?
Mr. Nye. Well, I object to that.
A. Well, no—
The Court. The objection is sutained.
Q. Well, did you say anything to Harry
about her having ordered a rig on Monday?
A. No, sir.
Q. Well, why was the rig delivered at
the West Hotel if she lived at the Ozark?
A. Well, it seemed her place of business
was on Nicollet, in the Syndicate Block,
and that she never went to the Ozark until
later on in the evening, and she wanted
the horse there because it was more handy
to the block where she was working or to
where her place of business was.
Q. Do you know why the horse was not
delivered at the Syndicate? A. No, sir.
Q. Can you give any reason? A. No,
sir.
Q. Do you know why she had the horse
delivered at the West Hotel and not at the
Syndicate or the Ozark Block? A. No, sir,
I cannot.
Q. When she came for the horse on Sat-
urday was anyone with her? A. No, sir.
Q. Did she come all alone? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did she drive that night from
the hotel? A. Toward First avenue north
on Fifth Street.
Q. From the entrance of the hotel down
Fifth street towards First avenue north?
A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Did you see her turn up on the ave-
nue? A. No, sir.
Q. That was a black horse? A. Bay
horse.
Q. It was a bay horse she had on Satur-
day night? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What kind of buggy? A. The same
buggy, the top buggy.
Q. Now, this order was made at 5:15? A-
Along about that time.
Q. And made at the hotel? A. Yes, sir.


OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL.
know from where she had
A. No,
Q. Do you
come when she made that order?
sir.
Q. Had she come into the hotel, or come
down out of the hotel? A. She came into
the hotel at the Fifth street entrance.
Q. She came into the hotel at the Fifth
street entrance? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And your agency box is right as you
reach the rotunda or the lobby of the ho-
tel? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In the hall? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just at the corner of the hall and the
lobby” A. Yes, sir.
Q. She walked up there; was there any-
body with her? A. No, sir.
Q. And she said to you she wanted– A.
Kit. She said: “I want Kit this evening.”
Q. That was on Saturday? A. On Sat-
urday night.
Q. Saturday night, yes. What time did
she say she wanted her? A. 7:20.
Q. And where? A. At the hotel.
Q. And where did she go from there?
A. I do not know.
Q. Business was over at that hour,
wasn’t it—5:15? A. Well, I could not say.
Q. Did she go to the Ozark? A. I could
not say which way she went.
Q. Did you see her at the Ozark between
5:15 and 7 o'clock? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you at the Ozark? A. At 5:30,
yes, sir. I left the hotel at 5:20.
Q. Did she board where you did, take her
meals? A. No, sir.
Mr. Erwin–As I understand it she board-
ed herself practically
Mr. Hall–She prepared part of her meals
and I think she took a part of them down
town.
Q. You took your meals where? A. At
home.
Q. At your own home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Exactly. I was thinking you took your
meals at a cafe? A. No, sir.
Q. Then you did not see her Saturday
between the time she ordered the rig and
the time the rig was delivered to her? A.
No, sir.
Q. Now what kind of a night was Satur-
day night? A. Well, there was rather a
sharp wind, a cold night.
Q. Well, was it a fit night for pleasure
driving? A. No, sir.
Q. Seven o’clock; what was the condition
of the light and darkness at that hour? A.
Seven-twenty?
Q. Yes, sir; when she took the rigº A.
Why, it was dark; of course, there were a
few electric lights around there at the
hotel.
Q. Well, it was dark? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you say it was windy and coldº
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time did she return with the
rigº A.. I don’t know exactly. It was
somewhere in the neighborhood of a few
minutes past 9; the same time as the rig
returned on Monday night; about the same
hour.
Q. Well, she brought the rig home that
time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To the hotel or to the barn ?
the barn.
Q. Do you know whether there was any-
one with her at that time? A. No, sir; I
was not there at the time.
Q. Oh, you were not there at the time?
A. No, sir.
A. To
The Court—I will say to you, gentlemen,
we have now commenced to take the testi-
mony in this case, and it is not proper for
you to discuss the merits of the case or
the testimony that has been introduced
until you have heard it all, the arguments
of the counsel and the charge of the court,
and then it will be your duty to examine
the testimony and render your verdict.
We will now take an adjournment until 2
o'clock.
(Court here took an adjournment until 2
o'clock p. m.)
AFTERNoon SESSION, JAN. 31.
Henry Goosman resumed his testimony.
Mr. Erwin–I want, if you can, in your
own way to show to the jury if there is
anything either in the manner or in the
words or in the attitude or in the smiles
or anything else as to what Miss Ging
meant when she told you to be sure and not
say anything to Harry about this? A. Well,
I could not say. I paid no more attention
to it, only what she said.
Can you tell us about her manner?
A. She seemed to be quiet; nothing un-
usual; came in there and ordered the rig
from me and left and said to be sure to
have the rig up there at 7:20. -
Q. What I want to get at is whether
she was serious or in fun. A. She was
serious.
Q. Did she have any rig Sunday night?
A. No, sir; not to my knowledge.
Q. Did she say anything Saturday that
she would want a rig on Monday? A. No,
sir.
Q. When she came in Monday at 5:35
was that the first you heard of her desire?
to have a rig on that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was her manner on that occa-
sion; I want to get at whether she was
in a hurried or excited condition, or any-
thing of that kind, or natural and easy %
A. Natural and easy, I should say.
Q. Did you see her when she came to
the hotel at 5:15—where were you when she
cameº A.. I was at my desk.
Q. Did you see her when she came into
the door? A. Part of the way in, yes,
sir.
Q. Your desk is so arranged that it can
see the lobby of the hotel and also the
entrance on Fifth street? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you notice any one come for her
to the hotel on that occasion 2 A. No,
sir.
Q. Or did you notice her speak to any
one else in the hallway of the hotel where
your desk is located? A. No, sir.
Q. Or upon going out? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you go out after her to know
which way she went? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know which way she turned
on Fifth street when she did go out? A.
No, sir.
Q. Had any one else spoken to you about
her ordering a rig at that time? A. O,
sir.
Q. How often had she driven Lucy be-
fore? A. Once before, to my knowledge.
Q. How long before was that? A. That
was on the 27th, the month of November.
Q. The 27th of November? A. Yes.
Q. The second Wednesday preceding the
murder or Wednesday preceding the mur-
der? A. I don’t recollect that.
Q. Have you refreshed your memory so





º OENEICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
you know it was the 27th 2
I noticed that on the register.
- As I understand you, you were not
p, ent when she ordered the rig at that
time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was it? A. At the stable.
Q- What time was it ordered? A. She
left at 8:20 that evening; she came and or-
dered the rig as she wanted it.
Q. Any one with her? A. No, sir.
Q. Any one leave with her? A. No, sir.
Q. Tid she state where she wanted to
go? A. No, sir.
Q. Or how long she would be gone? A.
She said she would be gone about an hour.
Q. How long was she gone? A. Gone
about an hour and 10 minutes.
Q. Do you know how long she was gone
on the drive on Saturday night? A. She
left about 7:25; returned somewhere between
9 and a quarter past in the evening.
Q. Were you present when she returned?
A. No, sir.
Q. This is just hearsay? A. Yes, by the
books -
A. Yes, sir;
Q. Have you seen the books? A. Well,
I did not pay much attention to the time
of that. I have asked one of the drivers.
Q. You cannot testify to what you heard.
How was she dressed on that night? Was
she dressed the same each night? A.
About the same, yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether she wore a veil
on the Monday night when she left the ho-
tel? A. I would not be positive.
Q. What is your best impression? A. I
have an idea that she did.
Q. Have you any idea of its color, size
or shape? A. No, sir.
Q. A black veil you think she wore? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Will you give us your best recollec-
tion as to how she had it, how she wore
it? A. I cannot say; I have seen her two
or three times. She had always had a veil
on over her sailor hat, drawn down over
her face.
Q. Was there a whip in this buggy when
you delivered her the horse and buggy” A.
Yes.
Q. What kind of a whip? A. A straight
black whip. -
Q. Was that returned with the wagon?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In the same condition as when it went
out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any lap robe in the buggy
except the goat robe 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Describe to the jury what the angle
of the bar holding the top up was; whether
it reached away forward or straight when
the top was up; describe the top so the
jury can understand about how much the
hood would hide a person when the top was
up. A. When the top is up, the bar for-
ward, take and draw on a straight line
would be very near to the front of the
buggy.
Q. The dashboard 2 A. Yes. -
Q. What kind of a top do you call that?
A. A black leather top.
Q. Does it have a peculiar name, from
reaching over? A. Not any more than an
ordinary top.
Q. Now, with reference to looking out
of this wagon; what kind of a seat was in
this wagon; was it a high seat? A. An
ordinary back, about eight inches high, I
should judge.
Q. Upholstered? A. Yes.
Q. Upholstered on the inside, seat side?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were there straps for the arm or
hand? A. No, sir.
Q. Were there any windows upon the
side? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there a window of glass behind?
A. A small glass behind, yes, sir.
Q. So that one could look out through
the window back? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Without reaching out to look out over
the side? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what was the condition of the
bed in regard to the wheels; for instance,
looking out, a person looking out, would the
wheel be near the face on account of the
lowness of the bed near the axle? A. No,
S11".
Q. Would it be high up? A. It would be
high up.
Q. What would have to be the position of
Miss Ging to look out of this wagon, if she
wanted to look out, to see ahead, or to
look back? A. She would have to sit for-
ward considerably to look out.
Q. Would have to sit forward in the seat
because the top bar would come in about
that position? A. Sitting back. (Ilustrates.)
Q. Where would that bring the weight of
her body; you say she would have to sit
forward on the seat; how would she have
to throw her body out? A. She would have
to throw her body out to one side in this
direction, I should judge—kind of slide for-
ward.
Q. Did you see the buggy that night after
it returned 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you examine it? A. Yes, sir.
THE MARKS OF BILOOD .
Q. Tell the jury where you found any
marks of blood upon it? A. The center of
the cushion and off to the left and off to
the right, was considerable blood on top of
the cushion—a pint of blood there when I
first looked at it.
Q. As you sit there, as you are sitting in
the seat there—now, the center of the
cushion, was it a double seat? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Single cushion? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What was the cushion made of 2 A.
Green worsted cloth.
Now, whereabouts on the cushion was
the blood, relatively with this? A. In
about the center of the cushion, along near
the back end of the cushion, along about
here.
Q. In the center of the cushion? A. Yes,
slr.
Q. Over a large area of the surface of
the cushion 2 A. Quite a large space, heavy
clotted blood.
What was the length of the cushion?
A. The length of the cushion, I should
judge, would be about 30 inches.
Q.
What was its width 2 A. About 14.
Q. Then 15 inches from each end would
be the center line? A. I should judge so.
Q. And seven inches from each side the
center line? A. Yes, sir.
Q. With reference to that center, where
was the clot of blood, and over how many
inches did it extend? A. Probably from
four to five inches to the right.
Q. Of the center line? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far from the center line passing
the other way through the cushion towards
the rear of the cushion? A. Towards the
rear.























OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. sº
Q. Or front? A: I could not say; mostly
in the center and more to the right; the
amount of blood, the heavy part of the
blood.
Q. Covering a space how large? A. As
large as that.
Q. Now, that is about 13% inches or 14
inches, ain't it? A. Well, it may have been
a little smaller than that.
Q. And about seven inches wide, ain't
it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You use the words “clot of blood”-
was the blood dried when you saw it? A.
No, sir.
Q. Not dry? A. No, sir.
Q: What was its color? A. Dark red.
Q. Did you notice whether the clot was
darker upon the circumference than in the
center? A. No, I did not.
Q. What was the thickness of this clot
of blood, apparently? A. I should judge a
quarter of an inch.
Did it extend, the clot, to the center
line of the cushion? A: I should think, so,
yes. -
Q. And then from that way towards the
right? A. Towards the right.
Q. Then it occupied more than half of
the right side of the cushion? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And about half of its lateral surface,
too? A. Yes.
Q. Where else in the buggy 2–Let me ask
you, had this bloody clot apparently poured
over anywhere, run off anywhere, found an
outlet anywhere? A. Well, somewhat, yes,
on the seat of the buggy underneath the
cushion, there was considerable blood, very
thin, water like, and very light color, light
red, that run between the cushion and the
back.
Q. Now, where else in reference to that
buggy besides the seat cushion and beneath
the seat cushion, were there any blood
marks or spots? A. On the back rest
there was considerable.
Q. What was its extent and its appear-
ance and its location? A. Well, the ap-
pearance—it afterwards appeared as though
some one had rested up against the back
curtain and it had run down the back rest
and went underneath the cushion. Some of
the blood had gone down through the back
of the buggy into the bottom of the buggy
behind.
Q: What was the size of the spot or
stain on the bottom of the buggy at that
point? A. At the back end?
Q. Yes, sir. A. It was not very large. I
should judge about two inches—a small
spot.
Q. From what point on the back rest
did this blood commence? From its very
top? A. About two inches from the top.
Q. About two inches down from the top?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then extended how wide was that?
A. About two inches I should judge.
Q. Two inches wide and down to the
seat? A. Down to the seat.
Q. Now, was this cushion; did this cush-
oin sit up under the upholstery, or flush
with it? A. Out a little bit I should
judge.
Q. The seat cushion did not set under
the upholstery? A. No, sir.
Q. But was out a little? A. Yes, sir.
Q: Was there any angle? A. very little.
Q. Where at any other part of the buggy
was there any appearance of blood? A. On
the left bow, I think, the forward bow of
the buggy, the right bow, about midway.
Q. On the right bow, the right hand side
of the buggy? A. Yes.
Q. Which one of the three bows? A.
The front one.
Q. How far up from where it joins with
the other, about midway, about midway
up? A. Yes.
Q. Is that covered with the material of
which the top is made? A. No, sir, covered
with patent leather.
Q: What was the condition and appear-
ance of the blood stains on the bow 2 A.
There was a small spot I should judge to
be the size of a half dollar or so.
Q. On which side of the bowº
the inside.
Q. You mean on the inside towards the
center of the space which the top covered,
or between the bow and the covering” A. I
don’t understand you.
Q. Well, in this curtain the bow is on the
inside, is it? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. So that where my finger is on the out-
side of the bow, that would be the inside in
reality? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Was it round on the inside of the
bow 2 A. Just about on the outside.
Q. About where my finger is? A. Yes,
S11.
Q. About the size of a half dollar? A-
I should judge so, yes.
Q. On the right hand side? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And half way up? A. Yes. -
Q. Would anything from that point drop
into the buggy or drop out? A. Drop out.
Q: What was the condition of that blot?
A. I should judge it was a dry light color.
Q. It was evidently blood, was it? A-
Yes, sir.
Q. Where was there any blood on that
buggy or whip or lines? A. Well, quite a
little seemed to be spattered around back
of the top; two or three spots back of
the top. -
Q. Where was that? A. Part of it was
up in the top, the back end of the top;
two or three small marks, spots.
Q. Please describe this—this is the top
of the buggy, this is the back? A. There
were more at the back end and back cur-
tain; two or three spots up near the front,
small spots, spots probably the size of the
end of your finger.
Q. At what point? A. I cannot say ex-
actly. They were in the top probably,
through here, the front end of the top.
Q. Where were there any other spots?
A. In the back curtain there was a few,
about the middle of the curtain, just above
the back rest.
Q. Then if this was the top overhead,
the spots were along in here? A. Yes,
near the front, on the right hand side,
more in the center.
Q. How many of them? A. I did not
notice; I just noticed there were a few
blood sroots.
Q. Upon the back curtain as it hung,
where were these spots—on the curtain
proper or space below 2 A. On the cur-
tain.
Q. About where on that curtain was
the back rest? A. Came up this high,
spots about along in here; a large spot
there; quite a large spot above the back
rest.
Q. Were there any other spots?
guess that was all I noticed.
A. On
A. I.



--
- -
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPOR1.
Q. There was a large spot about there,
fit the back rest? A. Yes.
Q. What was the size of that spot? A.
The size of your hand; something that
rested up against it.
Q. Were these spots upon the top
smeared or splashed on 2 A. Splashed on.
Q. This spot on the back, was that a
smeared spot or a splashed spot? A. As
though something had rested against it,
as though the head had rested against the
back, and trickled down from there be-
tween the back curtain into the body of
the buggy.
Q. Where would this spot, the splashed
spots on the top, in the front part of the
top, where would this have been with ref-
erence to Miss Ging's head, if the top had
been down at the time they were made?
A. They would have been more where the
top turns, or a little above, I should judge
near the center; I cannot describe that ex-
actly.
Q. For instance, when the top is half
down, where would that come with refer-
ence to Miss Ging's head–you say it went
out that way with the top half down? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Where was the head in reference to
it horizontally? A. The head would be
above that.
Q. How far above it? A. Probably about
an inch or so, or on a line with the upper
part of the top.
Q. These spots in the top which were on
the front were on the right hand side of
the buggy on the right hand side of the
center? A. About, yes, sir.
Q. What other blood was there on this
vehicle? A. None, that I noticed.
Q. Any around the feet on the floor? A.
A little on the weight strap.
Q. What was the character of the weight
strap—describe that—just describe the
weight and strap—is it a chain or strap? A.
It is a leather strap riveted to a weight
Its width I should judge is about an inch.
Q. Long enough to have the weight on
the ground and hitch the horse's head? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Six and a half or seven feet? A.
Yes.
Q. Was it a new strap or an old one?
A. An old strap.
Q. Where were the blood marks on that
strap? A. Right near the snip of the end.
Q. Was that a smeared or splashed
mark 2 Were there any corresponding
marks of tracks of blood on the bed of the
buggy 2 A. Not that I noticed.
Q. Was there a rug in the buggy? A. Yes,
sir; there were two I suppose in the front
end, and one in the back. There were spots
of blood. A large spot where it trickled
down between the back rest and top, and
went through to the bottom of the buggy.
The rug runs the whole length of the
buggy. -
Q. Do you know when you put the
weight in, whether you put it in before or
behind 2 A. Behind.
Q. When she left the hotel the weight
was in the forward part of the buggy 2 A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Which side?
side.
Q. Was there a curtain down in the
front part of the seat between where tha
ſimbs would be and the back of the seat:
A. Yes, sir.
A. I could not say which
Q. Was there any blood on the curtain.
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you examine the lines? A. No
Slr.
Q. Did any one—I am asking for infor
mation. A. I think not.
Q. Was there any blood on the wheel.
on either side? A. I think not, no, sir.
Q. The wagon come in with any mud or
it? A. No, sir.
Q. Came in dry 2 A. Dry and dusty; the
roads were at that time.
Q. What was the size of this goat skin.
robe? A. I should judge about four feet
Square.
Q. When Miss Ging left was it round
over her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did her feet rest on any portion of it?
A. I think so; yes, sir; I did not notice.
that. -
Q. Was it large enough to cover the
laps of two persons in a buggy? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And tuck it up? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any blood on this robe? A.
I have not seen the robe since.
Q. Have you got it? A. I think it is at
the morgue.
Q. Now, after you had delivered the rig.
between 7:08 and 7:10 to Miss Ging at the
West Hotel, did you notice on this Monday
night which way she turned into Fifth
street? A. No, sir. -
Q. How far did you see her from the
ladies’ entrance on Fifth street side? A.
Probably drove three or four yards; that
is all the attention I paid to it.
THE RETURN OF THE BUGGY.
Q. How long after that was it, and when
was it that you began to inquire, or any
one said anything to you about that rigº
A. I should judge it was a few minutes.
past 9 when Officer Happ came to the
drug store to call me to go and look at the
condition of the rig.
Q. Officer Happ, a police officer? A. Yes,
he is on the corner of Grant and Nicollet,
his beat.
Q. Where did you go? A. Went to the
Palace stable.
Q. How many blocks from the hotel was
that? A. I was at the drug store of Kelly
& Thompson, third door from the corner
of Nicollet and Grant.
Q. You had left the hotel? A. Yes.
Q. What time did you leave the hotel?
A. 8:30.
Q. You were at the drug store at what
point? A. The third door from the corner
of Grant and Nicollet.
Q. Three doors from the stable. And
then this Officer Happ came to you and re-
quested you to go to the stable and look at
the buggy? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to the stable? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was the buggy when you got
there? A. It was on the floor, back about
75 feet from the entrance under an electric-
light.
Q. Was the light ample to make an ex-
amination of it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you learn there about the
manner in which the buggy had got in 2
A. I learned from the man on the floor
there that the horse came in alone—that is
all.
Q. At what time did you learn it same
in 2 A. Just a few minutes before I came
in. Just as soon as they unhitched they
sent for me.






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 39
Q. After examining the buggy, where did
you go, what did you do; telephone or
what? A: I went into the office and tele-
phoned to police headquarters.
Q: What did you telephone? A. To find
out if any one was hurt in an accident dur-
ing the evening.
Q. Did you state to them anything? A.
No, sir.
Q. Did you describe to them the condition
of the buggy as it was returned? A. No,
ir.
". you asked the bare question whether
anybody had been hurt by the accident?
A. Yes, sir.
Now, was there any reason, anything
that impelled you to take that manner of
inquiry. A. The simple reason—the horse
coming in alone, the conditon of the buggy,
excited my suspicions that there was some-
thing wrong.
Q: What I mean is by not conveying this
information with an opinion that Miss Ging
was in the buggy and she had taken the
buggy out. A. I did not want to excite
suspicion until I found out who the party
was, before I gave any information of what
the trouble was, for the simple reason that
I did not want to place her in that position.
Q. If nothing had happened to her you
did not want her to be connected with the
accident? A. No, sir.
Q. That was the moving cause of your
inquiry? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What reply did you get? A. The re-
ply was there was some one hurt in a run-
away accident at Lake Harriet, as I under-
stood it.
Q: What time was this you got this tele-
phone from headquarters? A. I cannot say.
It must have been along towards 10 o'clock.
I did not pay much attention to the time.
Q. Now, you say that you got informa-
tion over the telephone about the person
being hurt at Lake Harriet? A. That's all;
they gave the time; they said there was
some one hurt in a runaway accident; as I
understood, at Lake Harriet, and the wagon
had gone out.
Q. The patrol wagon? A: Yes, sir.
Q. Did he tell you how long it had been
gone, or when it was expected to return, or
anything of that kind? A. No, sir.
Q. After telephoning and getting this in-
formation, what did you do? A. I waited
some considerable time standing there—
there were two or three in the office; I tele-
phoned again to police headquarters to see
whether the wagon had returned.
Q. Where was 420? A. That was the
telephone number of the stables.
Q. Did they promise to do it? A. Yes,
sir. I gave them the name and telephone
number.
Q. Gave them the stable name and tele-
phone number? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did you do after telephoning to
them on the that occasion the third time?
A. I stopped some time waiting for an
answer, and I left for home.
Q. What time did you leave for home?
A. I should judge about 10:30.
Q. How far was it from your stable to
your home? A. Five blocks.
Q. As I understood you in your direct
examination, when you got around to the
Ozark, you met an officer near the Ozark?
A. Right on the corner.
Q. What was his name? A. Officer
Britt.
Q. And then, as you stated, you request-
ed him to go to his box and telephone
whether, the wagon had gone down; then
he said, “Isn't there a telephone in the
building?” and you went to the building to
telephone? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what floor was the telephone that
you went to? A. On the second floor.
Q. How long were you telephoning
there, ringing the bell, making calls and
trying to get them up? A. I cannot say
how long exactly. It took some time. I
telephoned first to police headquarters, Of-
ficer Britt did, to find out whether the
wagon had returned, and he said it had,
and had gone to the morgue, and
THE PARTY WAS DEAD.
Then I telephoned to the morgue to get a
description of the body, and they could not
give me any description whatever, and I
telephoned the second time, some time af-
ter and they could not give me a descrip-
tion then.
Q. What time was this that the tele-
phoning went on in the Ozark? A. Some-
thing in the neighborhood of 11 o'clock.
Q. Now, at what time was it that you
heard a man come in the Ozark? A. I.
cannot say: 11, or a few minutes past.
somewhere. The elevator man was waiting
there to turn off the lights. It generally
quits at 11 o'clock.
Q. This man hauled the elevator down
from the second floor? A. The minute he
head the party come in he went down the
elevator himself.
Q. Who was running the elevator? A.
The night foreman.
What is his name? A. Anderson.
Q. How long was he gone before the ei-
evator was returned to your floor? A.
About two or three minutes.
Q. Who came up on the elevator? A.
Harry Hayward.
Q. Who else; anyone else? A. With the
night man.
Q. Now, you were then engaged in this
telephoning, were you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where is the telephone in the build-
ing; is it in a private room or in the hall?
A. In the hall.
Q. How many people were there in the
hall engaged in telephoning or listening?
A. Officer Britt and myself.
Q. And the light was lit? A. Yes,
Q. Was it an unusual thing to be tele-
phoning that way at night? A. No, sir; I
don’t think so.
Q. Was it an unusual thing to have an
officer there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now the elevator stopped at your
floor and who got out? A. Harry Hay-
Ward.
Q: What was the first thing said there
by anybody? A. The first remark made
by Harry, he wanted to know what this
telephoning was about, what the trouble
was.
Q. Who answered it? A. I did.
Q. Now, as I understand you, you were
reluctant to tell him that Miss Ging was
connected with this affair at all? A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you as to the state of your
mind then; had you from the knowledge of
her taking out the rig and from the knowl-
edge which you gained from the language
used at the police station that somebody
had been hurt at Lake Harriet, and then
through your curiosity of telephoning up
from the barn and the Ozark, and from the




40 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
information which had been given to you
that a woman was at the morgue—from
that did you not believe it was Misse Ging?
A. I could not believe it. I did not know
What to think. -
Q. Were you mystified about it? A. Yes.
Q. You had reason to suspect it might
be her? A. Yes, sir, she had not returned.
Q. Now, then, with these suspicions in
your mind and with her caution to you not
to tell Harry that she had gone out, what
answer did you make to Harry? A. I said
nothing much at first until they began to
kind of press me for an answer, and asked
me a second time. Then I told him that
Miss King, as I understood the name, had
gone out during the evening, and the horse
had returned alone, and told him the con-
dition of the buggy.
Q. You described its bloody condition ?
A.. I told him there was considerable
blood in the buggy.
Q. Did you tell him the robe was gone?
A. No, sir, I told him the horse came
home.
Q. The time it came home? A. Not ex-
actly; I don’t remember that.
Q. Did you tell anything about telephon-
ing; anything about the person at the
morgue? A. Yes, sir, then I told him
wheoever the person was that was hurt
had died and gone to the morgue.
Q. You told him it was an accident?
A. As I thought, yes sir; as I understood
from the police headquarters.
Q. To these declarations by you, what
answer did he make? A. Well, we started
for the first floor; he made a few remarks
on the second floor, commenced talking
aloud, swearing a little bit that he
knew it.
Q. Before that had you told him that
she was out? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Had he made any reply to that? A.
He asked me how many times this had
happened, her going out alone. I told him
it was the third time. Then he said to
me, “I wish I had known it.”
HARRY BECAMIE EXCITED.
Q. From that on how did he develop?
A. We reached the ground floor about
that time; and there he walked up and
down rather excited and says, he knew
it was the girl, and he knew she was done
up for her money. He said, “What a
damned fool I have been ; two thousand
dollars gone to hell.”
Q. Then the talk continued in that line,
did it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you then talk more,
more about, it? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you say to him it might not be
her? A. I might have; I don’t remember
whether I did or not, I was anxious to go
down and find out the particulars.
Q. Now, did your father come home at
that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he enter into the conversation?
A. He stood there listening to it.
Q. Now, did you say to Harry, when he
commenced to talk about this, did you or
your father say to him that he had better
not talk about it? A. Yes, I told him to
go down and find out, to be sure of it; to
go down and get the particulars.
Q. What did you say to him about not
talking about it? A. He was talking rath-
er loud. I told Harry, “Don’t make so
tell him
much noise; you will awaken the people in
the house.”
Q. Did that have any effect upon him?
A. Somewhat, yes, sir.
Q. You started out, as I understand, to
go to the morgue, and you went out and
took a car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you got down to the corner of
Washington avenue and Hennepin and got
off the car, he said, “Let us go down to
the Central station?” A. Yes, sir.
Q. Or the alley lock-up? Yes, sir.
Q. Hadn't there a man come there, a
detective, come to the Ozark before you
left? A. No, sir.
Q. Only that officer was there? A. Only
the officer.
Q. Did the officer join in the talk? A.
Yes, some little. -
Q. Do you recollect Harry saying to him,
asking him whether he was a detective or
an officer? A. Harry knew him as an
officer, when he spoke. Harry called him
by name.
Q. Did you hear Harry say anything to
him or to you about talking to Hoy or the
chief detectives and getting him to work
on the matter? A. No, sir.
Q. Nothing of that kind? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, when you got down to the Cen-
tral station, Mr. Moore was there? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And Mr. McKenna, the jailer? A.
There were two in there.
Q: What did they tell you and what was
said there? A. As we entered we asked a
description of the body to find out who it
was, and the driver, it seems, gave us the
description of the clothes and the hat and
the coat, enough to satisfy us who the
party was.
Q. Then the discussion came up about
black or blue as to the dress? A. He de-
scribed the skirt as a black skirt. Harry
said no, it was blue; looks black in the
dark.
Q. That satisfied you it was Miss Ging?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Satisfied Harry it was Miss Ging?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, then, what did Harry say then,
or what did you say; what was said by
any of you or by the officer there? A. The
conversation was carried on between Harry
and one of the officers. Harry claimed he
knew she was done up for her money. He
knew at the time it was her, before we
got the full description of the parties.
Q. Well, did they dispute that; did they
say it was an accident? A. No, sir, I
think not.
Q. What did they say about it? A. The
officer, driver, commenced to describe how
they found her, and where she was shot,
the position she was shot in, where the
bullet was and where it lodged.
Q. You knew there at this station that
this woman was shot and where she was
shot, and where the bullet lodged? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you go from there? A:
We started out—I don't know—started for
home, I should judge. The reporters
walked out in the alley, two reporters, and
we started for Hofflin's drug store.
TALKED WITH THE REPORTERS.
Q. Hoffiin's drug store on Washington
avenue? A. Washington and First avenue
south; and they were asking Harry what







OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
- ºl.
he knew about it, on the way over. He
said: “I know a good deal about it; prob-
ably more than anyone else,” and in the
drug store the reporter sat down on a seat
with him and commenced to inquire who
she was. That I did not pay much atten-
tion to.
Q. Did you notice whether Harry was
trying to keep his opinions to himself or
to put them out? A. Well, I did not no-
tice very much.
Q. Was he in any way trying to conceal
what he knew about it upon inquiry, either
by you or anyone else that you heard?
Objected to.
Question withdrawn.
Did you mind your caution not to
talk about it, or did he continue to talk
about it? A. He continued to talk to the
reporter.
Q. Sat down on the seat and they began
to talk the matter over? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You went off? A. I was walking up
and down.
Q. How long were you talking there?
A. I should judge about 10 minutes.
Who were those gentlemen? A. I
don’t know who they were.
Q. Would you know them if you saw
them again? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what papers they were
employed on? A. I think one represented
the Times.
Q. Now, from that point, when did you
leave Hofflin's drug store? Who left with
you? A. We started from Hofflin's with
two reporters and Harry, for the Ozark.
Q. What was your object; what was
your intention? A. They were going up
there to inform Miss Ireland, and get what
news they could from her, the niece that
was living with them.
Q. Harry said you went with them to
facilitate their having an interview with
Miss Ireland? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when you left the Ozark, had
the people generally gone to bed? A. There
was no one in the hall whatever.
Q. Had you said to the reporters that
Miss Ireland was in bed? A. I did not
state anything about it.
Q. Was it understood she would have to
be wakened up in order to be seen? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. When you got up to the Ozark, Harry
said he did not want to wake her up him-
self? A. Yes, at first he did not want to
wake her; and it seems that the officers
got there some time before he did.
Q. What officer? A. Police officer.
Q. Where do they live? A. I could not
say; I guess there were two or three of.
ficers and reporters and a couple of detec-
tives. -
Q. Were not Courtney and Morrisey and
several policemen there? A. Two detec-
tives, two or three policemen.
Q: What did they say; what were they
doing there when you got there? A. They
were trying to find her apartments, I think.
It seemed they were in the block.
I 3. Who showed them the apartment? A.
Q: Where was Harry at this time? A.
Harry was with the party, with the re-
porters.
Q: Did he talk with Courtney and Mor-
rissey there? A. After he arrived on the
fifth floor; yes, sir.
Q. What did he say to them there? A.
I did not hear the conversation.
Q. How was it arranged that she should
be awakened—at whose suggestion? A. At
that time there was a party that lived, I
think, in a boarding house back of the
block, that came in. They had been to the
block, it seems, to the boarding house, to
find out from there.
Q. What party was that, a man or wo—
man—do you know who it was? A. No,
sir; Harry called him by name. He said,
“John, you wake her. I cannot wake her.”
Q. Was the name Bennett? A. I don’t
know.
Q. Did he have black whiskers? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Harry said, “John, you wake her; I
cannot wake her?” A. Yes.
Q. What did John say? A. We went up
to the door, and I think he went and two ke
Mrs. Murray, in the adjoining flat, and told
her to wake her. Some few minutes after,
Mrs. Murray walked her.
Q: Who talked to her? A. Mrs. Murray
informed her.
Q. Where did the detectives and police
officers and you and Harry go from there?
A. Nowhere.
Q. Stayed right on the fifth floor? A.
Yes. -
Q. How long did the talk and consulta-
tion and excitement continue? A. I should
judge very near an hour; all of an hour.
Q. You were up till about 3 o'clock? A.
Yes, sir, Harry, I think, had gone, and
the chief and two or three officers. There
one or two reporters there at the time,
and I think the detectives. I cannot re-
member.
Q. Then, so far as you know, Harry was
the first one to adopt the theory, so far as
you know, that this woman was murdered?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Or, to put out the cause of that mur-
der, the motive for it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether any veil was
found in the buggy when the buggy was
returned? A. No, sir.
Q. I understand the horse was headed,
when she went away Monday night, to-
wards First avenue, and went three or
four yards, when you turned away? A.
Yes, sir.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION.
Questioned by Mr. Nye.
Q: Did you make any other examination
of that buggy than at the time that you
saw it in that barn? A. No, sir.
Q. That is the only examination that you.
ever made? A. Yes.
Q. That was in the night and under the
electric light in the barn? A. Yes, with
the aid of matches and such things as
that.
Q. You never saw the buggy by day-
light? A. No, sir; not when it was in that
condition.
Q. You don't pretend to be absolutely ac-
curate in the description of the spots on
the back cushion that looked as though a
person's head had rested back there? A.
Yes, sir.
The Court. I understand it was on the
curtain.
Q. That was on the left side of the bug-
gy? A: I should judge near the center.
Q. Are you positive of that, that it was
near the center? A. It may have been a
little to the left of the center.


42 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
of November on
Q. Wasn't it quite considerably to the
left? A. I cannot say.
Q. You could not be accurate about that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Neither could you be accurate in ex-
act inches as to the blood which you de-
scribed on the cushion of the seat? A.
No, sir.
Q. Are you very positive, Mr. Goosman,
that the marks that you describe on the
bow of the back were on the right side?
A. Well, as I made the statement, I
thought then I was not quite certain; I
would not say. I am quite positive there
was a mark on one of the bows, and it
might have been on the left.
Q. When you speak of right and left,
you mean sitting in the buggy, facing right
and left? A. Yes.
Q. That might have been the left? A. It
might have been the right as I stood.
Q. Are you sure that that was anything
more than a print from a soiled hand, and
that there was any blood in that mark or
print that you saw 2 A. I could not swear
to it. It looked like blood.
Q. It was your impression? A. Yes.
Q. You were examining for blood marks,
and in the light you took that finger mark
to be blood? A. Yes, sir.
A QUESTION OBJECTED TO.
Q. From the prints of the blood that
you saw on the buggy and the position of
the head, or where you supposed the head
might have rested, would it not be natural
and perhaps easy for the wound in the
head, bleeding quite freely, to have depos-
ited the blood that you describe on the
cushion.
Objected to. Sustained.
Q. Did you see Harry any time in the
afternoon? A. No, sir, not to my knowl-
edge.
Q. Did you see him any time between
dinner and the time that you saw him at
the Ozark at 11 o’clock? A. No, sir.
Q. That horse “Kit,” which she had
Saturday evening, what sort of horse was
that, with reference to spirit; was she of
a wilder nature? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I beleive you said you were some-
what acquainted with Miss Ging? A.
Slightly acquainted.
Q. You went through these different
business deals which you had had 2 A. I
was introduced to her about the middle
Hennepin avenue one
evening "by a lady friend of hers. ,
Q. From that time until the 3d of De-
cember had you seen her quite often?
A. Two or three different times.
Q. When she took the buggy that night,
did she appear cheerful and in good
spirits? A. Yes.
Terrence Connolly, Jr.,
sworn. Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Do you reside in this city? A. Yes,
sir
Q. You are in what business? A. In
the undertaking business.
Q: Engaged in business with your
father? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know Catherine Ging dur-
ing her life time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you know her? A.
Five or six years.
Q. Did you know her quite well? A.
Quite well.
Q. You saw her occasionally? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Were you at the county morgue here
on the night of December 3d, or morning
of the 4th 2 A. I was there the next morn-
ing after the murder.
Q. Did you see the body there? A. Yes.
Q. Whose was it? A. Catherine Ging.
Q. She was a dressmaker on Nicollet
avenue? A. In the Syndicate Block, yes.
Q. Do you know where she had resided
previous to her death? A. The Ozark
fiats
Q. Have you ever seen her there? A.
I had seen her coming in and going out,
and knew that she resided there. She told
ºne.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward? A.
No, sir, I did not at that time; I did not
know him then.
Q. Were you present at the funeral of
Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The body was removed to her home
in the East, was it? A. Yes, to Auburn,
New York.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. I understand you to say that you
were the director at the funeral? A. Both
my father and I went.
Q. To direct the arrangements and prep-
arations? A. Yes, sir. My father came
just before the funeral was to start from
the store, and I said if he would go up on
the hearse I would get the rest of it ready.
Q. What I want to ask you is, if you
know whether Harry Hayward took any
interest and assisted any in the prepara-
tion of the funeral?
Objected to as not cross-examination
Sustained.
Mr. Erwin—I will recall him on my case.
W. P. Spring
sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. You are a physician and surgeon in
this city? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you been in practice,
doctor? A. Since 1879.
Q. In this city all the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Up to the first Monday in January,
1895, the two years preceding, did you hold
any county office? A. Coroner.
Q. Coroner of this county? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember the occasion of
Dec. 3; the evening, Dec. 3, 1894? A. I do.
Q. Of being summoned or called to make
an investigation in the accident, or killing
of some kind out at Lake Calhoun ? A. I
was notified, yes, sir.
Q. At what time did you receive notice,
doctor? A Well, I was away from my
house that evening and I left the place
where I was at 10 o'clock, and I walked
from there to my house, a distance of about
a mile, and upon arriving at the house my
girl said there had been a telephone; that
there had been a runaway accident and the
lady was killed and the body would be
brought to the morgue and I should ap-
pear at the morgue.
Q. What did you then do? A. I tele-
phoned the morgue and they said there
was not anything there, and that they had
not heard of anything. I then telephoned
to police headquarters and they said they
had heard nothing of anybody being killed,
but that the wagon had gone out. I also
found another case for the coroner at 950.
First avenue south, somewhere in that




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 43
-
neighborhood, and I took my horse and
drove to that place and found the address
was wrong. I stopped there long enough to
discover that, and then I went to the
morgue and I found the body there.
Q. And what time did you reach the
morgue? A. Well, I did not look at my
watch out there, but the fact that I left
the house at about 10 o'clock and what I
did in the meantime, it must have been
after 11 o'clock.
Q. That was this county morgue at the
court house? A. Yes, sir.
Q. State what you found there, doctor.
A. Well, I found the body lying on a
table, undressed and washed.
Q: Whose body was that? A. That of
Catherine Ging, as identified afterwards;
of course I did not know whose body it
was at that time.
Q. State what examinations you made of
the body, and what, if anything, unusual
was found in its appearance. A. Of course,
all this time the supposition was that it was
a runaway accident, and I found nothing
special that I noticed then, excepting that
the eye—the left eye—was
FORCED OUT OF ITS SOCRET
and laid on the cheek; and I did not think
anything special about it at the time and
I talked with those standing about until
the question arose in my mind what caused
death, and I could not see any apparent
cause. And I began examining in the vicin-
ity of the eye to see if there was any frac-
ture—if I could detect any fracture there—
and in examining it I found something
hard in the eye ball and discovered a
bullet.
Q. Did you keep that bullet? A. I did.
Q. Have you got it now? A. I have.
Q. Will you please produce it? (The wit-
ness here produced the bullet, and the same
was marked exhibit “D.”) A. I have
marked it with my first initial; I marked it
that night.
Q. This was the bullet from the left eye?
A. From the left eye.
Q: What further examination did you
make then? A. I then made an examina-
tion to find whether I could discover any
other bullet in the head, and after some
search I found a wound back of the right
ear.
Q. Well, what was that, the wound of
entrance? A. Well that is the only wound
we found except this wound where I found
the ball.
Q. Well, from your examination, did that
bullet cause death? A. That is my con-
clusion.
Q. You came to that conclusion? A. Yes,
sir.
Q: What did you then conclude was the
cause of death? A. We then concluded it
was not a runaway accident, and we im-
mediately went to police headquarters and
notified the police.
Q. Now, doctor, what in your judgment,
so far as you can judge from the exami-
nation which you made there, was the
cause of death? A. That bullet, I should
judge.
Q. The bullet wound you described in the
head? A. Yes, sir. Of course you under-
stand a more thorough examination was
made of it by my deputy.
Q: Well, do you understand from your
examination? A. Yes, sir, from my exam-
nation.
Q. That was the cause of death? A-
Yes, sir.
Q. How long after you got there was it
before you made this discovery? A. Well,
I did not look at my watch, but my im-
pression is that it must have been 15 or 29
minutes.
Q. Fifteen or 20 minutes? A. Yes, sir,
they were talking there in that neighbor-
hood.
Q. That would be in the neighborhood of
15 or 20 minutes past 11 o'clock before you
discovered she had been shot? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the time you discovered she had
been shot, did you then know who she
was 2 A. I did not.
Q. Was there anyone there that knew?
A. No, sir.
Q. How long after the discovery of the
bullet did you learn who the person was?
A. Well, after discovering the bullet the
assistant at the morgue, Mr. O'Brien, made
a search of the clothing and on the shirt
waist.
HE FOUND THE NAME “GING,”
and I should judge it must have been 15 or
20 minutes after that that some one from
THE TRIBUNE, I did not know his name,
I don’t know who he was, came in and
identified the body as that of Catherine
Ging.
Q. According to your best judgment what
time was that? A. Well, not earlier than
a quarter of 12; I know a short time before
that I went to telephone to some one and
I looked at my watch and it was just 12
o'clock.
Q. A short time after that? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And how long before that time was it
before you made the discovery of the bul-
let, or rather made the discovery of her
name on the clothes? A. Well, it was be-
tween that time and the time this man
came down.
Q. You didn't know who Ging was? A.
No, sir.
Q. Did you see the clothing or any arti-
cles taken from the person? A. Mr. Walsh,
the morgue keeper, gave me a key and 40
cents in change he had taken from the
person; then, in this second examination
by Mr. O'Brien, sewed to the upper side
of the corset, a small sack, I forget wheth-
er it was a chamois skin or not, but I think
it was, just a small sack, and when it was
opened we found in it a diamond stud, and
a back of another stud and a charm, a
Catholic charm, I think it was. I am not
sure about that, however.
Q. And have you those? A. I have. 1
have them here.
Q. Just let me have them. (Witness pro-
duces the articles above described in a
sealed envelope.)
Mr. Nye-This envelope is sealed, and I
will mark the whole envelope as one ex-
hibit. (The envelope was here marked Ex-
hibit “E.”)
Mr. Erwin–Is everything that is in the
envelope material to this case.
Mr. Nye-Well, I don’t know that I shall
offer it; I won't offer that, but I will offer
the bullet at this time.
Mr. Erwin-Let us see the bullet. (The
bullet was here handed to the counsel, who
examined the same and handed it back to
the reporter.)
Q. Where was the change you speak of,




44 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
the money? A. Mr. Walsh gave that to
me
Q. Mr. Walsh, the morgue keeper? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–What is this initial mark on
this bullet?
The Witness—That is “W,” (the first ini-
tial of my name.
Mr. Erwin–On this side of it here?
The Witness. Yes, sir, I put it on there
myself the night that I discovered it.
Mr. Erwin–Have you weighed it?
The Witness—No, sir, that is the only
mark that I put upon it, and that I did
for the purpose of identification.
Q. This has been in your possession
ever since that time? A. It has been in
my possession ever since that time, yes,
sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. In what condition was the body
found when you arrived at the morgue?
A. It had been washed already.
Q. Been washed? A. Yes, sir, undressed
and washed.
Q. How many were there at that time?
A. Well, there was Mr. Walsh, and Mr.
Fox, the conductor, at the time I arrived,
you mean?
Q. Yes, sir. A. And two reporters, a
reporter for THE TRIBUNE and a re-
porter for the Times.
Do you know who they were? A.
Well, one was Hoke Smith, and I cannot
give your the name of the other.
Q. Mr. Fox, the policeman? A. Yes,
sir, the conductor of the wagon.
Q. You did not make a careful examina-
tion? A. No, sir, I left that for my depu-
ties—they will testify here.
Q. The autopsy was made by other par-
ties? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present at the time? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You simply supposed death resulted
from a runaway accident? A. Yes, sir;
that is what I had been told.
A. And when you ascertained the cause
of death you noticed one of the eyes pro-
truding, that was which eye? A. The
left eye.
Q. And in examining it you found a
hard substance underneath 2 A. Right in
the eye ball.
Q. Right in the eye ball? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And from that you took the bullet?
A. That was the hard substance, the
bullet?
Q. And then you examined to find the
place of entrance? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then you made no further ex-
amination ? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there a scar upon the nose?
A. The nose was broken.
Q. The nose was broken? A. Yes, sir.
Q. About what place? A. Well, along
about the center, the nose was deflected
from towards the left eye.
Q. Were there any scars about the face?
A. There was a wound on the lower lip.
Q. Where? A. About here, about an
inch long.
Q. On which side? A. That was on the
right side.
Q. Those were the only scars visible ex-
cept the place of entrance of the bullet?
A. There was a very little pith in the
skin just over on the right temple, no
wound there at all.
Q. No discoloration of the flesh? A. No.
Q. Did you notice upon any other part
of the person besides the face? A. I did
not make that examination.
Q. You just casually examined it, a
casual examination? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Those four persons you have named
were the ouly persons there at the time?
A. Well, I don’t remember any other.
Q. Did you examine any of the clothing
except those you have mentioned? A. Well,
I was there when Mr. O’Brien examined
the clothing and I saw him handling them
over—that is, I was there a part of the
time—they were laying on the table.
Q. Both the outer and the underclothes?
A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Did you see a sealskin sacque there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see the hat? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any veil that you noticed” A. I
don’t remember about that.
Q. Is that the last and only time you saw
her? A. Oh, no. I subpoenaed or rather I
empaneled a jury the next day.
Q. Yes, I did not know but what that
might have been done by one of the depu-
ties? A. No, it was done by me.
Q. Is it the practice in this city, doctor,
to have the keeper of the morgue go to
work and wash a body before the coroner
arrives? A. No, sir.
Q. Remove blood stains, anything of that
kind? A. No, sir, it is not usual.
Q. Well, is it very unusual? A. Yes, sir,
because the coroner usually views the
body at that place where it is generally
found.
Q. So, the body was not only brought in-
to the city but it was taken to the morgue
and washed 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. And all blood removed from the per-
son 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know who did that? A. Well,
only from hearsay.
Q. Well, who did you understand did it?
Mr. Nye-Well, I don’t see that that is
material at all, it seems that it was done.
Mr. Erwin–Well, it is only for the pur-
pose of following up proof as to the con-
dition of the body, that is, not its condi-
tion physically, but its condition as to or-
naments and pocket books.
The Court—Well, I suppose the morgue
keeper is here. -
Mr. Erwin–Well, we are trying to ask
who they were, your honor, that is all.
The Court—Well, they are here.
Q: Who was the morgue keeper? A. Mr.
Walsh.
Q. And he was present at the time you
was there, was he? A. Yes, sir; he told
me he did the washing, too.
L. P. Nippert
sworn. Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. You are a practicing physician and
surgeon, are you, in this city? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. How long have you been engaged in
practice? A. Ten years.
Q. In this city? A. In this city.
Q. Were you connected in any way with
Dr. Spring in the office of coroner during
the two years preceding Jan. 12 A. I was
the deputy.
Q. Deputy coroner? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present and did you assist
in any post mortem examination of the
|











OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 45
body of Catherine Ging in this city? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. When and where did that take place,
doctor? A. I don’t remember the date, but
it was in the morgue.
Q. In this county morgue? A. In the
county morgue in this city, yes.
Q. Well, she was killed on the evening of
Dec. 3, and about how long after that was
it? A. The following morning?
Q. The following morning? A. The fol-
lowing day.
Q: What other physician, if any, assist-
ed in the post mortem examination? A.
Dr. Hill.
Q. Describe, doctor, the appearance of
the body and what you found unusual,
leading to your conclusion as to the cause
of death, and so forth. A. The body was
that of a woman apparently 30 years of
age, well developed, well nourished. As to
the cause of death, we found a bullet
wound in the head.
Q. Describe the wound, doctor. A. The
wound of entrance was about two inches
back of the right ear on a vertical line with
the ear, with the external opening of the
ear; and the line of the bullet was through
the base of the brain and through the left
eye. It traversed the skull diagonally from
right to left. -
Q. In your opinion that caused her
death 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You found other marks on the body?
A. Yes, the nose was broken, that is, the
upper part.
How was it broken, doctor, which
way? A. Well, it was turned to the left.
Q. Turned to the left? A. That is, the
bones on the right side were more broken
than those on the left side
Q. What other—? A. There was a cut
on the lower lip, passing from the lip
downwards and upwards on the right side
also.
Q. Anything about the position of the
cut or wound you speak if? A. It was
like this (indicating).
Q. Well, what else did you find—did you
find anything else unusual about the body?
A. There was a slight depression above the
right eye; it appeared like an external de-
pression of the skin, but upon examining
the skull we found a slight effusion of blood
underneath this depression, and a slight
fracture.
Q. A slight fracture? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what was the appearance of that
fracture as to the effusion of blood? A.
There was but little effusion of blood exter-
ally and but little internally.
Q. And from your examination, what
time did you suppose that fracture to have
been made? A. From the appearance of
the fracture, it was our opinion it was
made after death.
Q. Was that on both sides of the head?
A. There was another fracture on the
other side of the head.
Q. This depression that you speak of was
on the right side? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was there a fracture on the right
side of the skull in line with the depres-
sion? A: Well, it appeared to commence
there and extended back in the skull.
Q. And the fracture on the left side re-
sulted from the same cause that made that
on the right side? A. Probably.
Q. That would be youd opinon? A. That
would be my opinion.
Mr. Nye. That is all.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. When did you make this autopsy” A.
The following day, after the body was
found, I understand.
Q. Was that on the 4th 2 A. Well, I
don’t remember the date.
Q. Well, the body was found on the
night of the third? A. Then it was on the
following day—on the 4th, it must have
been.
Q. Well, would you know by refreshing
your recollection from your return? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. (Witness shown return.) A. Yes, sir;
it was on the 4th–that is correct.
Q. Where did you make it? A. At the
county morgue in this city.
Q. Who was with you? A. Dr. Hall.
Q. Who else was present? A. There
was a gentleman by the name of Delebar
who was present, and I think the morgue
keeper was there.
Q. Is Delebar a medical student? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. In whose office? A. I do not know
that he is in any office at all.
Q. Who called you in to make an au-
topsy 2 A. The coroner, Dr. Spring.
Q. Dr. Spring 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Called you and Dr. Hill? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you make it by daylight or lamp-
light? A. Day time.
Q. Who used the knife at the autopsy %
A. Both of us.
Q. How did you make the autopsy, in
what manner? A. Well, Dr. Hill opened
the head and eye.
Q. Before that, did you make any nota-
tions of outside appearances? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you got that? A. That is a
copy of it that you have.
Q. A copy of this that you made before
you used the knife? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just take this and tell us what you
found? A. Do you wish me to read it?
Q. I wish you to speak from memory,
use that to refresh your memory, if you
desire? A. Well, “the body is that of a
woman apparently between 25 and 30 years
of age, measuring five feet seven inches
and a quarter, weighing about 150 pounds,
well developed, well nourished. Hair black,
eyes gray, teeth good, lower incisors ir-
regular. The nose is bent slightly to the
left. On examination the nasal bones are
found to be broken, to a larger extent on
the right side than on the left. There is a
slight abrasion of the right side of the tip
of the nose. The left eye is forced from
its socket and protruding between the eye
lids, which are lacerated a quarter of an
inch from the inner angle.”
DESCRIPTION OF THE WOUNDS.
Q. Which are what? A. “Which are lac-
erated a quarter of an inch from the inner
angle, torn where the bullet passed
through.”
Q. Yes? A. (continuing) “Both nostrils
contain clotted blood, as also the left ear.
An inch above the external angle of the
right eye, in a verticle line, a depression
in the skin as large as a small hazel nut
was found. There is a lacerated wound
extending from the symphysis of the lower
jaw at the junction of the mucus mem-
brane, and the integument of the lip down-
wards and outwards to the extent of three-



45 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
quarters of an inch. This wound involves
the entire thickness of the lip. On a hori-
zontal line with, and two inches back of
the external opening of the right ear, a.
wound, round and ragged, a quarter of an
inch in diameter is found. It is surrounded
by an area of blackened skin, the hair be-
ing burned off. This area extends one inch
upwards and one-half inch downward from
the wound, the upper area being wider
than the lower. About the middle of the
inner side of the left arm two discolora:-
tions of purple yellowish appearance, seem-
ingly caused by a pinch, were seen. Fin-
ger-nails purple.”
Those were the remarks made or the
notes made before the body was opened.
Q. Then upon the right side of the head,
behind the right ear, you found the wound
of entrance, apparently a gun shot wound,
with hair blackened from the burning
powder, did you? A. The hair burned off
and the skin blackened, yes sir.
Q. And you found the left eye protruding
from the lids? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where the ball game out or had been
taken out? A. Where it has apparently
come out, yes, sir.
Q. To you it had apparently come out?
A. Yes, sir.
. Both nostrils clotted with blood? A.
Well, they contained some clotted blood.
Q. The nose broken on both sides? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. More broken on the right than the
left? A. To all appearances, yes.
Q. And bent over toward the left, or the
right? A. Towards the left.
Q. A cut upon the lower lip, extending
how far? A. Extending to the right.
Q. How far? A. Why, I don’t think it
is more than three-quarters of an inch, or
an inch; I have forgotten the measure-
ment. -
Q. Do your notes show that? A. Yes,
sir.
The Court—They show about three-quar-
ters of an inch, about that? A. (Re-
ferring to notes.) Yes, three-quarters of
an inch, and the notes show the direction
to be to the right side.
Q. Downward and outward to the right,
three-quarters of an inchº A. Yes, sir.
Q. Cutting the lip right apart? A. No,
sir. It hung together right at the mucous
membrane of the lip; it didn't come apart.
Q. Then, hanging together at the mucous
membrane it was cut apart at that point
three-quarters of an inchº A. Yes, sir.
So you could see the teeth? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Were there any teeth broken beneath
this cut? A. I did not notice any broken;
they were irregular, but not broken.
Q. What was this wound, an incised or
contused wound? A. I should judge a
contused wound.
Q. What were its edges? A. Well, they
were ragged, not clean; that is, they were
not clean edges, and that is the reason I
judge it was a contused wound, because
the edges were irregular. -
Q. What was the breadth of this cut
which separated the lip? A. I don’t re-
member; I should judge about one-six-
teenth of an inch.
Q. Then it must have been a contused
wound approaching the character of an in-
cised wound? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was its line, axis, straight from a
point near the mucous lining to where it
terminated? A. Not perfectly straight, a
little curved.
Q. Which way was the curve? A. I
don’t remember.
Q. Was the concave part of it down-
wards or upwards? A. I think upwards,
but I am not quite sure.
Q. Was it possible to have got the lip
over to have cut that with the teeth? A. I
am not prepared to say positively about
that. I think it was.
Q. You think it was? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you examine to see whether the
teeth beneath it were loosened? A. No,
Sir.
Q. Were the edges of the wound iden-
tified with any clothing, or with dirt, grit,
or any other substance? A. I noticed noth-
ing of the kind.
The Court—Dr. Spring states that it had
been washed at that time.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, I know, your Honor, but
you cannot get it out—dirt.
Q. Was there any accomosis about the
lower lip in the region of the cut, black-
ened? A. No, sir.
Q. No black and blue, no accomosis
above the cut or beneath it? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice whether there was
any wound upon the lower gum, 9pposite
this cut? A. The gum was cut through,
too.
Q. The gum? A.
any wound there.
Q. Well, did you notice to see whether
there was 2 A. No, sir. That is, I turned
the lip out, but I did not take any notice of
any wound there.
Q. You did not look? A. No, sir.
Q. You turned it out to see whether the
cut was in the lip? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But, did you examine to see whether
the gum itself was cut? A. No, sir.
Q. Nor you did not make an examina-
tion to see whether the teeth were loosen-
ed? A. No, sir.
Q. What was the color of the lips of this
wound? A. They were red where they
passed beneath the integument, beneath
the skin.
Q. Red or pink? A. Red.
Q. Were there any shreds to the incision,
or the contusion of the wound? A. Shreds
of tissue?
Q. Yes? A. Yes, sir, it did not look as
though it was cut, it looked contused, torn.
Q. This wound, then, if it was pink, was
made before death 2 A. I don’t think that
is any evidence of it.
Q. Is it not? A. No, sir.
Q. Were the lips swollen? A. No, sir.
Q. Not swollen 2 A. No, sir.
Q. If it had been made with the teeth,
would it not have had the indentation of
the separate teeth so as to have been no-
ticeable? A. I hardly think so. Might
have, but I hardly think so.
Q. A blunt instrument striking across the
teeth might have produced that wound,
might it not? A. I think so.
Q. After death by violence and before
rigor mortis takes possession of the body,
is the lower jaw loose or is it firmly set?
A. Usually loose.
Q. Loose. A blow then given upon the
jaw which would make this cut from the
teeth on the inside, would be made upon
a movable jaw before the rigor mortis, or
No, I did not notice


OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 47
stiffening after death, had taken place?
A. I should think so.
Q. From what portion of the body does
the blood vessel, the arterial vessel which
supplies the lower lip, the arterial blood,
come from, where does it— A. It comes
from the so-called carotid artery and
through the facial artery.
Q. Where does the facial artery leave the
carotid artery 2 A. In the neck.
Q. At what point? A. About the middle
of the neck.
Q. And approaches the lip from beneath
or— A. From beneath the angle of the
jaw.
Q. This angle? (Indicating.) A. Yes, sir.
Q. Wounds made immediately after
death, by violence made at the same time
or immediately after cannot be discovered
by your profession to have been made be-
fore or after, can they, without the most
careful examination ? A. Not usually.
Q. No, sir. For instance, a lip of a per-
son cut through immediately after the
death wound, or death occurring from it—
like this death wound from the back of the
head coming through the base of the brain
and crashing through the left eye—the cut-
ting of the lip immediately before or im-
mediately after could not be distinguished,
could it, by the medical profession? A. Not
usually, no, sir.
. Now, over which eye was it where
the indentation as large as a hazelnut was
found? A. Above the right eye.
Q. How far from the right eye brow? A. I
will have to look at my notes again to
tell you.
Q. Well, sir? A. (Witness refers to notes.)
Can I keep them there?
Mr. Smith–Yes. A. One inch above.
Q. What bone of the skull lies beneath
that point? A. The frontal bone.
Q. Where is it, or where was this inden-
tation; mark it on your own head there,
doctor? A. About here. (Indicating.)
Q. Was it on the frontal bone or
parietal bone? A. On the frontal bone.
Q. Is the frontal bone double or single?
A. It is one bone—that is, in adults.
Q. Now, this was over the right eye? A.
It was.
Q. One inch above the eyebrow 2 A. One
inch above the external angle of the eye;
not quite an inch above the eye.
Q. Now, the frontal bone is all that is
the
contained between this fissure and this
one, in adults? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The skin here was depressed to the
depth of a hazel nut? A. No, sir.
Q. How was it like a hazel nut? A.
The circumference was about the size of a
hazel nut, but the depression was not that
large.
Q. Oh, about half that size? A. No, not
even half the size.
Q. Well how large was the depression?
A.. I could not tell you now.
Q. Was it a depression? A. Yes, sir, it
was a depression.
Q: What was the thickness of the skin
at that point on Catherine Ging's head?
A. I do not know.
Q. Well, what is it ordinarily on a la-
dy's head at that point? A. I should judge
about one-sixteenth of an inch.
Q. The covering of the bone, the perios-
teum? A. Is that distance, mainly, under-
neath the skin.
Q. And then the covering of the bone?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The covering of the bone lies close
to it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that a tense, strong coating cover-
ing at that point? A. Yes, sir; the cover-
ing of the bone is strong.
Q. Was that covering depressed? A. No,
sir.
Q. But the muscle and skin lying over
the bone was depressed? A: I did not
notice the muscle, I just noticed the de-
pression outside before I examined the
inner side.
Q. Well, you noticed the depression? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Was that accomosed? A. That had a
bluish appearance.
Q. Then that was made before death?
A. No, sir.
Q. Then what caused this accomosis? A.
You mean the bluish appearance?
. Yes, sir. A. Why, the effusion of
blood underneath the skin.
NO OTHER EXTERNAL WOUNT)S.
Q. Now, where else on the head did you
find a wound besides the one back of the
right ear, the one at the left eye, and the
corners of the lids, and the cut in the lower
lip, the broken nose, and the right side of
the nose at the tip, and this point above
the right eyebrow, where the depression
was, what other wounds did you find? A.
There were no other external wounds.
Q. What was the color of the eye under-
neath the eyelid, the under lid of the eye,
or the over lid of the eye, was that acco-
nosed ? A. On which side?
Q. The left eye? A. We did not make a
dissection of the eyelid.
Q. Well, was it accomosed in appear-
ance, dark or purple? A. Yes, it was of a
purple appearance as far as we could judge.
Q. Was it accomosed as much as the
wound above the right eye; was it as pur-
ple as that wound? A. Well, there was
a good deal of clotted blood about the
eye, about the wound, and beyond on the
left side.
Q. That was washed out?
that was in the wound itself.
Q. That was in the wound itself, but
the surface of the wound, to the appear-
ance of your eye, was it purplish 2 A. No,
sir.
Q. Didn't it show anv accomosis, any
darkening? A. Not any that I remem-
ber.
Q. But there was some purple about this
wound 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, effusion of blood begins always,
does it not upon a traumatic cause? A.
A blood vessel may tear without any in-
jury.
Q. Well, it begins as soon as the flesh
or skin is lacerated, the effusion of blood
begins to form accomosis, don’t it, in life?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it continues in accordance with
the degree of the injury until the accomo-
sis is complete? A. It continues, yes, sir.
Q. Now, then, if there was an effusion
of blood over the eye and none upon the
eyelid, would not that be strong evidence
to you, medically, that the wound over the
eye had been made prior to the wound in
the eye? A. Well, if the two wounds was
probably on the same side it might.
Q. The stronger the effusion and the
stronger the accomosis, the greater the evi-
dence that the wound was made before
death º A. Yes, sir.
A. No, sir,











48 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. This is the principle, is it not, of ac-
comosis and of effusion? A. Yes, sir.
- nº inderstand you to say you
found an effusion in this wound, in the de-
presseu wound? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And saw no appearance of effusion on
the eyelids of the left eye? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you remove the hair from the en-
trance wound back of the head? A. No,
sir, it was burned off.
Q. Was it burned off leaving the skin
bare? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To what extent? A. An inch up-
wards and one inch downwards from the
wound; the upper portion being wider than
the lower.
Q. There was hair burned right off to
the skin? A. Yes, sir.
Q. No roots appearing? A. No, sir.
Q. What? A. Little stubs of hair.
(At this time a juror was taken sick and
court took a recess until 10 o'clock, Feb. 1,
1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 1.
S. H. Dyer, the aged juror who was
taken ill Thursday, was reported as being
no better, and this threw the counsel
and the court into a state of chaos
for a time, until some determination could
be arrived at as to the best course to pur-
sue.
When court opened the 11 jurors were not
present, the court and attorneys only rep-
resenting the state. Mr. Erwin arose and
stated that he would waive the appearance
of the juror for any order the court might
choose to make. This was made in open
court so as not to complicate matters. The
11 jurors were brought in and seated in the
box.
Then followed a long wait for the report
of the physicians.
Dr. Spring and Dr. Nippert appeared in
20 minutes and held a short conference
with Jutise Smith.
“I think it will be necessary to adjourn
this case until Monday morning,” said the
court, “in order that it may be sure that
the juror may be well.”
“we make the same concessions,” said
Mr. Erwin. “Make the order that it is at
the request of the defense."
(Court then adjourned until Monday, Feb.
4, at 10 a. m.)
MoRNING SESSION, FEB. 4.
Dr. L. A. Nippert,
cross-examination resumed by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now, Who were present at the time
that you made these notes on the surface
of the body? A. Dr. Hill, and, as I stated,
Mr. Delabarre I think the morgue keeper
was there part of the time. I took part
of the notes and Mr. Delabarre took the
rest. The body lay on the dissecting table
when I came.
Q. Do you know whether the body had
been under a jet of water prior to its dis-
section? A: I do not. There is a hose
there with which the bodies are washed off.
Q. Did you examine the clothing? A. No,
sir.
Q. Now, who used the knife in the au-
topsy” A. Dr. Hill and myself. I opened
the body and Dr. Hill opened the head. I
opened it from the head down to the hip,
down to the hip bones, clear straight down
to the symphysis pubis at the lower portion
of the abdomen.
. You mean this little mound that is
at the lower part of the body? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. You cut down to the peritoneum? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You opened the abdominal cavity first?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you open that, with a cross
flap? A. No, sir; after I had got down to
the peritoneum I opened the peritoneum,
and opened it clear down to the abdominal
cavity; that is, with the line of incision
that I had made through the skin.
Q. What was the condition of the viscera
upon opening the abdominal cavity?
Mr. Nye—Do you claim it is material
cross-examination of the body beside what
was shown on the direct examination as to
the head?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-I don’t see how it is material.
The Court—It is cross-examination to the
extent that they may show there were
other causes of death, and no farther.
Mr. Erwin–I want to show all the indi-
cations which the body showed concerning
the cause of death. I do not want to make
any point on character or anything of that
kind.
Q. What was the appearance of the vis-
cera upon opening the abdominal cavity?
A. They were distended.
Q. What was the general condition of
the intestines? A. They were partially dis-
tended, and on opening the intestines and
the stomach we found food in both of them.
Q. In what condition did you find the
kidneys? A. They were slightly affected.
Q. In what condition did you find the
liver and the uterus? A. The liver was
normal; the uterus was enlarged.
Q. How much was it enlarged? A. About
an inch.
Mr. Erwin–In a future part of this case
I may want to examine him on the condi-
tion of the uterus, but now I do not think
it is important; the same with the ovaries.
Q. Did you examine the ovaries? A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you whether you found any
abnormal conditions? A. No, sir
Q. A normal condition? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–The same thing here—I may
want to examine on that—I don’t think I
ever will, but I reserve the right to.
Q. What was the liver's condition? A.
That was normal.
Q. Did you open the thoracic cavity? A.
Yes, sir. I cut from the head on both sides
and opened articulation between the collar
bone and sternum—that released the stern-
um and we lifted it off like a lid.
Q. In the meantime what had the other
physician been doing? Was he operating
on the head? A. Yes, sir, at the same
time I was operating on the body.
Q. If you saw anything you would call
his attention to the viscera.” A. Yes, sir.
Q. If he saw anything he would call
your attention to the head? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did he operate on the head, use
a saw? A. Yes, He first made an inci-
sion from here to here across the head and
deflected the scalp, and then first examined
the injuries found beneath the scalp, and
then sawed through the bone of the skull
and removed the skull cap.






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 49
where did he saw through the bone
of the skull? A. In a circular line around
the skull.
Q. How high was the line above the eye-
brow? A: I don't know; I suppose about
two inches or an inch and a half. He
pulled the scalp down clear to the upper
edge of the orbit.
Q. He left nothing on the skull but the
periosteum? A Yes, that was all that
was left, for part of that comes off in re-
moving the scalp.
Q. what was the condition of the crown
of the head? A. It was perfectly normal;
that is, it was white and nothing abnormal
along there with the exception of a spot
where the depression had been.
Q. over the right eye? A- Yes.
Q: What was that condition? A. There
was an effusion of blood there in the cel-
lular tissue of about the space of half a
dollar. The heart was normal in size and
appearance. The valves were perfectly
normal.
Q: What was the heart, large or small?
A. It was proportionate to the size of the
woman.
Q: What was the condition of the left
ventricle? A. Contracted. That is a Con-
dition that is frequently found; almost
Q. Any clot in it? A: I don’t think
there was; I don't remember. The lungs
were more discended with air than usual.
outside of that they were perfectly normal.
Q. How far behind was the skull pulled
out, the scalp pulled out? A. Almost to
the neck.
Q. Did it include the wound near the
right ear? A. Yes, sir.
How far around the edges of the
wound did the effusion of blood extend in
the wound above, that is, on the right
side of the head, lower edge of the occi-
pital bone? A: I should think to the size
of a dollar, probably a little larger.
Q. What was the size of the hole per-
forating the skull at this point? A. A.
quarter of an inch in diameter, round.
Q. Were there any fractures from that
radiating? A. Yes, there was a fracture,
a stellate fracture.
Q. Did you remove all the viscera from
the body? A. With the exception of the
intestines.
Q. Did the operation develop much blood
or serum? A. Not much, not quite as much
as usual.
Q. Now, you say from two inches above
the eyes, around through the bones was
the saw used to remove a portion of the
skull that was removed? A. It went
through the frontal bone, through the
parietal; it probably touched the temporal
bone on the side; went through the tem-
poral bone and through the occipital bone.
Q. Through what portion of the occipi-
tal bone did the saw pass? A: I did not
take any particular notice of that; I think
the upper third of it.
Q. It was a usual skull?
ently.
Q. You noticed that it was a usual skull
in that it was neither over-thick or over-
thinº A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, upon removing these pieces of
this crown of the head of these bones fast-
ened together, what was the condition of
the brain—what membranes were left over
A. Appar-
the brain when the skull was removed? A.
First the dura mater. It appeared normal.
Q. The dura mater is the outer covering
of the brain after the skull cap is removed?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what condition was the brain sub-
stance? A. The hemisphere, that is, the
top of the brain, appeared to be normal.
At the base of the brain the brain was
bloody, and small particles of bone were
scattered throughout.
Q. Was the brain removed? A. Yes,
sir. The medulla was taken out. The skull
cavity was entirely empty. The bone, the
sphenoid bone of the base of the brain was
lacerated; the body of the sphenoid bone
was lacerated. There was a track of a
wound passing from the external opening
as described above, through the base of the
brain and coming out at the opening for
the optic nerve on the left side.
Q. What was the condition of the skull
in regard to fracture? A. It was broken
on both sides of the head, through the
frontal bone and parietal and the temporal
bone.
Q. Have you a skull here? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, just draw the frontal bone here
as it appears from the front. (Witness
draws on paper.) A. About like that.
Q. Draw the frontal bone as it appears
here, the parietal bone, the temporal bone
and the occipital bone. (Witness draws
same.)
Q. Now, there are two parietal bones,
one on each side of the head? A. Yes, sir.
Two temporal bones, one on each side of
the head. The occipital bones run around
on both sides, and the frontal bone runs
around on both sides.
Q. Now, this fracture, you say, extended
through the frontal, parietal and occipital
bones? A. Not the occipital bone.
Q. Well, through the temporal, through
the frontal and parietal? A. There is a lit-
tle mistake here. This comes down in a
sort of tongue here, and it passes along
over here.
Q. Now, the fracture of the skull extend-
ed through the frontal, the tongue of the
parietal, temporal to the occipital? A. To
the occipital; yes, sir, to the suture there.
Q. On both sides of the head? A. No,
on the left side it extended through the
petrous portion of the temporal bone.
Now, upon the other side of the head,
upon the right side of the head, the frac-
ture went through the frontal bone,
through the point of the parietal bone, and
down through the temporal bone to the
petrous portion of that bone? A. That is
right.
Q. Or, in other words, it extended
through the frontal bone around in this
direction—just show the jury on my head,
commencing where it commenced in front, |
on the left side first. (The witness here -
illustrated on Mr. Erwin's head.)
Q. What was the length of that frac-
ture? A. I did not measure it; about four
inches.
Q. Extending in the direction that you -
have named upon the left side of the head;
show the jury further how it went. A.
Went almost in the same direction up to
there, but then it turned down.
Q. What was the length of that frac-
ture? A. That was about the same length
of the other passing through all these
bones. -





50 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Did this fracture extend through both
plates of the skull? A. Yes, sir. The skull
has two tables, the external table which is
very hard and the internal table which is
thinner than the external table. Between
the two is a substance of less bony tissue.
It is not all over the skull. It is more
marked in front of the skull than the
sides. On the sides you can hardly distin-
guish the two tables; and this fracture ex-
tended through the entire thickness of the
skull.
Q. What I wanted to bring out was that
the fracture which you have described ex-
tended through both the inner table and
the intervening substance and the outer
table? A. Yes, sir. It was an absolute and
complete fracture on both sides, with one
modification, the fracture did not go
through, entirely through the so-called
petrous portion of the left temporal bone—
simply cracked that. Neither the fracture
upon the right side nor the fracture upon
the left side connected with the perforation
of the wound at the base of the brain.
Q. I want that fully explained to the
jury, that the fracture which has been de-
scribed on the right side, or the fracture
that has been described on the left side,
neither one of them extended back to a
point where it connected with any fracture
or radiation from the bullet wound, but
were separate and distinct from this bullet
wound, so far as connection was concerned?"
A. They were separate fractures; yes, sir.
Q. Now, describe to the jury the general
form of the skull bone, so far as its being
rounded up underneath, and the aperture
through which the medulla goes from the
spine. A. The posterior part of the skull
is made by a bone about the shape of a
hand, comes down like this (illustrating),
and there is a large opening through it
through which the spinal cord or medulla
passes; one small bone in the back; the
other the parietal bones forms a sort of
dome, and the ear domes come down on
both sides, forming a dome over this point.
Q. This inner bone which is hidden from
view in the nature of a hand underneath
the brain—how far does it extend towards
the ear? A. It goes up back of the promi-
nent point back of the ear. From this
point to the back of the head and beneath
the head and above the neck is a hand bone
in which there is a hole, and the spinal
cord passes through it.
Q. Now, with reference to the formation
of the bones, the orbital bones, the skull
bones, and bones of the side of the orbital
bone roll right in here, do they not, and
form a funnel, which extends far back into
the head? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And from the facial bone here that
funnel is also continued back from the
bone of the face? A. Yes, sir, making a
pyramidal tunnel—that is one end of it
growing smaller, cone like. That runs from
the eye right back into the head, about
three inches, I should judge.
Q. And how far is that tunnel from the
roof of the mouth, the rear part of the
tunnel, the posterior part of the tunnel?
A. Clear back from the roof of the mouth
to the pharynx it is but a very short dis-
tance. From the anterior portion of the
mouth it is probably further.
Q. Now describe with reference to this
tunnel of the left eye, and with reference
to the wound in the base of the skull at
the right side where the bullet entered,
the track of the ball to the left eye? A.
The bullet wound was on a straight line
from the inner angle of the eye to this
bullet wound.
Q. Well, now, that was so far below the
cavity which contained the brain substance,
except at the posterior portion where the
ball passed through the brain, that you
could take the brain substance out without
at all interfering with the track of the
wound–you took the brain out before you
explored the track of the wound, of the
bullet? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Upon removing the skull cap and then
removing the brain, you then found the
lower portion of the brain, at the base,
was infused or absorbed with blood? A.
No, the lower portion of the smaller brain
Was torn.
Q. Now, just describe in your own way
the direction of the ball as it passed
through the head? A. Well, it passed
through the skull, it passed through the oc-
cipital bone to the back portion of the head,
then it passed through the right lobe of the
smaller brain, it passed underneath the base
of the brain, and it passed through the so-
called optic periosteum, that is where the
optic nerve goes to the eye, that is at the
base of the brain, tearing it open at the
base of the brain, as I mentioned and
through into the brain substance. It tore
up everything in the course of the bullet,
from the entrance of the bullet to the
wound in the eye. The brain was resting
on the bones which the bullet tore.
Q. At what point in the tunnel, I call it,
or the funnel-shaped bone in which the left
eye was placed, did the ball strike, under,
over to the right or to the left side? A.
It was at the upper and inner angle of this
funnel you speak of. -
Q. Now, then, did the ball pass through
the tunnel? A. I think I did.
Q. Then, it entered the tunnel at the up-
per and inner side of it and passed through
the tunnel until the ball was— A. On the
inside of the eye; it did not enter in the
center.
Q. Precisely. It did not enter upon the
center, but upon the inner side of the bone
and through the contents of the tunnel? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, we have
sent for a skull, that the witness may use
it in connection with his examination, so
that it may be more clearly understood,
and we do not care to proceed any fur-
ther with this witness until we have the
skull.
The Court—Well, call another witness.
Dr. William Russell
Was then sworn and examined by Mr.
Nye. -
Q. You are a physician and surgeon,
doctor? A. Yes, sir; have lived here for 12
years-
Q. Were you called to the scene where
this woman’s body was found on the even-
ing of Dec. 3, 1894? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time were you notified to go
there? A. Well, I think it must have been
about 9 o'clock.
Q. When you got there had the patrol
wagon reached the place? A. Yes, sir, it
was there when I arrived.
Q. And how many people were out there
at that time? A. Oh, I should think about






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 51
or ten. I found the lady lying on the
3 and I made an examination of her
and found a pool of blood right under her
face—she was lying on her face—and I
found a pool of blood underneath the side
of her face. She was lying diagonally across
the street with her head toward the west
and the face toward the south, the south-
east, facing Lake Calhoun. She was par-
tially on her right side with the limbs a
little drawn up, flexed, the left limb flexed
a little more than the right; the left hand
was protruding in this way. (Indicating.)
Lying mostly on the right side and the left
hand extending a little over the body in
front. I think the right hand was partially
concealed by the back, I did not notice the
right hand particularly, and for that rea-
son I think it must have been partially
concealed. The body was lying partially on
a robe, with a little portion of it projecting
from it, from the back, as near as I can re-
member. The hat, I think, was lying a
little back of her, towards the shoulders—a.
little below the head on the shoulder, as I
remember. She was dressed in dark cloth-
ing, she had on a sealskin cloak and mit-
tens, and under the sack, or the sealskin
cloak, was a light waist. The clothing was
partially drawn up so the calves of the
legs were revealed, revealed so I noticed
them—revealed her stockings. I did not ob-
serve any blood on the sacque; but there
was blood under the sacque on the light
waist. It was saturated quite a little,
around the back and here (indicating). I
did not notice the robe particularly as far
as blood was concerned.
Q. What examination did you make? A.
I examined to see if there was any pulse
at the wrist, first.
Q. Was there any? A. No, sir.
Q. What next? A. I examined the caro-
tid arteries at the neck and I found no pulse
there. I found a little warmth under the
cloak. I pressed my head down, and then I
listened to see if I could detect any sound
of the heart; I could not see any signs
Whatever.
nine
groun
Q. There were no signs of life whatever?
A. No, sir, excepting a little warmth in
the body.
Q. Well, that would be an indication of
the length of time since life had ceased,
wouldn't it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what in your judgment would be
the length of time? A. Oh, it might have
been half an hour and it might have been
more; I could not positively say as to
that.
Q. Dfd you notice any marks on the
face? A. Well, I did not—yes, I noticed
slight marks about her face, but I did not
examine it particularly, so I could not
give you any definite statement in regard
to that.
Q. You did not know that life was
wholly extinct when you arrived or not?
A. No, sir, I went on the supposition that
she was not dead, that there had been a
runaway and she was injured.
Q. And when you ascertained that there
was no life whatever your examination
ceased? A. Yes, sir; I made no further
investigation.
Q. You did not particularly examine the
body in reference to marks about the face
or the nose? A. No, sir, I did not examine
those particularly; I simply observed that
the eye protruded from the socket.
Q. Were you there when she was taken
into the wagon? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-That is all.
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MIR. ERWIN.
Q. Who called you, doctor, to go there?
A. Mr. Erhardt.
Q. At what time were you called? A.
Well, as near as I can remember, about 9
o'clock.
Q. Well, now, have you any way as to
being specific as to the time, or is that
just a- A. No, sir; but judging from the
time in the evening, there had some por-
tion of the evening elapsed before I went
over there, and the time when I got back,
I simply arrived at the conclusion that it
must have been in the neighborhood of 9
o'clock; I would not be very positive, how-
ever, in regard to that.
Q. How long did it take you to get away,
get your horse hitched up? A. Oh, it did
not take five minutes; we have a man at
the barn, and he hitched up immediately.
Q. And you were on the ground within
15 minutes after you were called? A. Yes,
sir, I should judge within 15 minutes after
I was called.
Q. When you arrived there, how many
people were there? A. I should judge 9
or 10.
Q. Who were they? A. There was Mr.
Naegel and Mr. Erhardt, that is, there
were two Erhardts, the one that informed
me of the accident, and his brother, and
Mr. Naegel was there, and I saw Mr.
Jones there. He is the man that lives
across the way from me. And a Mr. Stew-
art and the driver of the patrol wagon.
Q. Where does Stewart live? A. I
think he lives down by the lake. He
keeps the Lake View House, and I think
Mr. Iang was there, too, a gentleman that
lives across the way from me. Mr. Stew-
art is a medium sized man, probably 40 or
45 years old.
Q. Was there a police officer there, too?
A. Yes, sir, there were two.
Q. That is ten in all? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Including yourself and son? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Now, there has been some dispute
here in the testimony as to whether this
body was lying with the face toward the
lake, or looking away from it, so I want to
call your attention particularly to the fact
that there has been some discrepancy in
the testimony, and get your best impres-
sion; what is your best recollection in re-
gard to its position? A.. I feel absolute-
ly certain that the face looked toward the
lake.
Q. The body was extended with the ex-
ception that the limbs were drawn up? A.
Yes, sir, and lying in a natural position
upon the right side, a little inclined toward
the face.
Q. With the right arm beneath the body?
A. I think that was concealed by the
clothing.
Q. Was it in a natural position? A. I.
think so. -
Q. The elbow 2 A. I think so.
Q. And the left arm? A. It pointed out
in this way, with the hand a little fixed
in this way (indicating).
Q. Well, that is a natural position? A.
Yes, sir–it is not a very unnatural position.
The thumb of the left hand was flexed in
like that, that is an indication of death—
the thumb was in that way, in the way a
person’s hand would be in case of death.



52 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. And you say there was blood beneath
the head? A. Yes, sir, quite a large quan-
tity of blood; the ground was frozen over
and of course it was not absorbed in the
ground; there was quite a pool around
there. -
Q. Over what extent of surface was this
pool of blood? A. Oh, I should think over
a foot in circumference.
Q. Had that blood been made by flowing
out of the wound, or by the body being in
that position? A. Why, I suppose it had
run out of the wound; but after learning
more definitely that she had been shot, I
thought a portion of it must have come
from the head; because it was a mystery
to me at the time I first went there, how
so much blood could have come out of the
eye.
Q. The pool of blood was before and be-
hind the head? A. I did not notice any
behind the head.
Q. It might have come from the nostrils,
might it not? A. Oh, yes, it might.
Q. Or the mouth 2 A. Yes.
Q. But it apparently came from some
front portion of the body and was extend-
ed over a space about a foot in diameter?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you examine this blood pool to
see whether it was frozen or beginning to
freeze, or what was its condition with re-
gards to temperature? A. I did not ex-
amine it in that respect; but it looked
moist in the center of the pool.
Q. Well, what was its appearance in re-
gard to the temperature of it? A. Its ap-
pearance was that it was not frozen very
much. I did not examine it.
Q. Now, on which side of the middle of
the road going west did this bºdy lay, in
reference to the center line of he road?
A. My impression is that she was nearer
the west side than the east; she laid
nearer to the right side of the road, going
south.
Q. She was nearer to the right hand of
the road as you go southwest? A. Yes,
sir; that is my impression; and her body
laid diagonally in the road. Probably her
feet would be a little the nearest to the
lake. The head was toward the southwest.
Q. Now, the seal skin cloak; was that
a short cloak, or was it a long cloak'? A.
I should think it was about medium; not
a very short cloak, nor as long as some of
them are.
Q. Well, covering the hips? A. Well,
yes, it came down to the hips; down to
the lower portion of the hips; down to
about where the hand would fall.
Q. Well, that lay in a natural shape
under the body? A. Yes, Was
fastened with loops.
Q. Fastened clear up to the throat? A.
No, sir, not very far up.
Q. How far up? Within six inches of the
neck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, the dress lay natural, it was not
twisted around her body, excepting the
skirt was drawn up a little, exposing the
calves of the legs? A. Yes, I did not no-
tice that the dress was twisted any; I
noticed that the skirt was drawn up
slightly; drawn up so as to expose the
calves of the limbs; part of the right, and
more especially of the left.
Q. Did it expose the knees? A: No, sir,
just below the knees.
Q. Well, did you notice the color of the
Sir. It
skirts beneath the dress as she lay there?
A. I supposed they were black, they looked
dark. They were not very much exposed.
Q. Then, as I take it, there was not very
much disorder about her clothing at all?
A. No, sir, except that they were drawn
up slightly. -
. And the hat, did that lay up against
the body? A. I think it did. I would not
be very positive, but I know I saw the hat
there, because I thought at the time it was
not a very warm hat to have on at that
season of the vear; that is why I noticed
the hat. I believe it was what they call
a sailor hat, with a straight, thin brim. It
looked like straw, but I would not say pos-
itively. It was dark.
Q. Was there any veil on it? A. I
think so. There was something on it.
. Did you examine the hat or the veil?
A. No, sir, I did not; I just recollect of
seeing it there.
And you say you examined the pulse
in the left hand which lay exposed, put
your hand upon the left side of the neck
to examine the artery, put your hand in
the cheek to feel the warmth on the left
side of the neck, and stooped down and
listened for any action of the heart? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you unbutton the sealskin cloak,
cr the vestings? A. I did; I unbuttoned
the sealskin cloak.
Q. And what sort of other clothing did
the body have on, if you recollect? A. I
don't recollect, but I recollect when I lifted
up the sealskin cloak on the side, I no-
ticed there was a light waist, or a shirt,
and the band around it was bloody.
Q. Now, when you unbuttoned the seal-
skin cloak, how far was it buttoned up?
A. About six inches below the chin.
Q. And how far down was it unbut-
toned? A. I don’t remember; I just un-
buttoned it enough to get my hand in the
region of the heart—two loops, I think.
Q. And you then threw this left lap of
the sealskin cloak from the body? A. Yes,
sir, so I could put my head upon the chest
in the region of the heart.
Q. And you heard no sound or articula-
tion at all? A. No, sir.
Q. And you noticed when the cloak was
thrown back that the band of the waist—
A. No, I did not notice that the band of
the waist was bloody until afterwards,
when I stepped in front of the body and
lifted the tail of the skirt up and I saw
the band was saturated.
Q. You used the word skirt. Do you
mean waist or skirt—the skirt is from the
waist down? A. Yes, sir, excuse me, I
mean the waist.
Q. What kind of a waist was it, was it a
silk waist? A. It was light material, but I
should not think it was silk.
Q. It terminated in what is called a
‘‘sailor’s waist?” A. Yes, sir—but I am
not familiar with the styles.
Q. How large a band was there on this
waist, was its diameter, that is, its breadth
of band? A. Oh, I should think an inch
and a half or two inches.
Q. How much of the surface was covered
with blood? A. It was just the band
around the waist.
Q. What was the width of the band? A.
An inch and a half or two inches in width.
Q. And for how long an extent, how
much of the band did you notice was cov-






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 5-
ered with blood? A. Oh, I should think
about six inches.
And what portion of the band in ref-
erence to the back?
Mr. Nye. What is all this for? We will
produce the waist if you want it, to save
time.
Mr. Erwin. Well, of course, I am exam-
ining the witness now to see if it is in the
same condition now as it was then.
Q: Did you put your finger on this band
to see whether it was blood ºf A. No, sir, I
did not; I simply judged it was blood from
the color of it, being red, I supposed it was
blood.
Q. Did you examine the lining of the
sealskin sacque to see whether it had sat-
urated the sealskin sacque or not? A. No,
sir, I did not.
Q. Well, you made a remark on your di-
rect examination that it had? A. Well, I
did not see any; I don’t think I examined
it. I did not mean to say so. There might
have been blood on it, there might not have
been.
Q. Did you examine the dress to see
whether there was any blood upon the
skirt? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Was the hair done up or was it loose,
disheveled? A. Well, the hair was done
up, but I think it was a little loosened.
There was a mitten on the left hand.
Q. Now, after you had lifted up the seal-
skin sacque and had noticed this blood upon
the waist, a portion of this sealskin sacque
was, of course, under the body when you
lifted it up? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't pull it out? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice any blood upon the
inner surface of the sealskin goat? A. No,
sir, I did not.
Q. Was the collar of the sealskin sacque
upon the body or was it down? A. I think
it was down.
Q. Do you know how high upon the neck
it came? A. No, sir, I do not; but I no-
ticed there was a portion of the neck re-
vealed, the hair—I could see a portion of
the neck and some of the hair, so I don’t
think it was turned up about the neck;
I think it was turned down.
Q. Was the face bloody? A. Not in par-
ticular. There was a slight discoloration
about the nose, but I did not examine that
* to see whether it was blood or
irt.
Q. You did not notice any cut about the
lips? A. I did not make any examination
of that.
Q. Did you button up the sealskin
sacque again? A: I don’t think I did.
Q. Now, what was then done to the
body? Was any of the clothing removed?
A. No, sir, not as I saw.
Q. Now, state to the jury what was done
with the body and how it was done. Was
the wagon driven up alongside, or did it
back up? How was the body got into the
wagon? A: I think the wagon stood a little
forward of the body, the other way from
the city. I don’t remember how far. It
was close by, and the gentlemen gicked her
up carefully and put her on a stretcher,
which was removed from the wagon first.
Then the stretcher was laid in the wagon.
Q. Was there any stream of blood passing
from the body? A. I did not see any.
Q. You saw none? A. No, sir. The
stretcher was very low, so they hardly
lifted her from the ground to get her on
the stretcher, so I did not observe any-
thing of that kind, and probably would not
have observed anything if there had been.
Q. Now, after the body was put in the
wagon, what was done with the wagon?
A. They drove it toward the city. They
turned around. I think they must have
turned to the left, but I cannot say posi-
tively about that, though.
Q. What was the character of the night
after you got there, in regard to the tem-
perature, the frost? A. Well, it was
quite a chilly evening; not very cold,
though; it was quite chilly, frosty. The
ground seemed to be very dry, very dusty.
There was frost. I know it was cold, freez-
ing.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Did you notice the wound in the left
eye? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you wondered, you say, that it
could have bled so copiously? A. Yes, sir;
I thought about that more particularly
after leaving the place.
Q. After you ascertained later that she
had been shot back of the ear, you in-
clined to that view in further coming to
the conclusion, did you not, that the blood
pool that you mentioned must have come
from the bullet wound? A. Yes, sir.
Objected to and objection sustained.
Q. Well, are you prepared to say that
the surface there that was saturated with
blood, which you speak of as being a foot
in diameter, was from the eye? A. No,
sir, my impression is that—
Mr. Erwin–Do you call him here as an
expert?
Mr. Nye-Why, we offer him here as a
witness to what he saw; as a physician and
expert. Yes, he was called there to render
medical aid.
Mr. Erwin–Then I would like to ask him
two or three questions on his expert knowl-
edge, to see whether he is qualified or not.
(Examination by Mr. Erwin.)
Q. If a pool of blood is found upon the
ground underneath a head, and there are
wounds on the front part of the head, and
wounds upon the rear of the head, if the
nose is broken, and if a ball flying from
the lower side of the occipital bone to the
right straight through the head and enter-
ing the foramen of the left eye, coming out
the eye and breaking up the bones of the
base of the brain, and opening up a wound
to the nostril cavity—is there any way on
earth that a surgeon can give an expert
opinion as to whether that blood came out
of the back side of the wound or out of the
nostrils connected with the wound? A. No,
sir; I do not think there is.
Mr. Erwin–Well, we object to the ques-
tion.
(Examined by Mr. Nye.)
(e. You say there was blood upon the
face.
The Court–No, he did not say so.
The Witness—I said there was a little
discoloration on the face, but I am not pre-
pared to say whether it was blood or dirt.
Q. Well, I ask you if it didn’t strike you
as being strange where so much blood had
come from? A. Yes, sir, and after I left
I got to thinking the matter over, and I
thought there was foul play in the case;
but I was deceived in taking it for a run-





OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
away accident, like everybody else was,
when I went there.
Q. Was there anything in the position of
the head or the body, with reference to in-
dications of blood that you saw upon the
ground, to prove that that blood which you
saw upon the ground to have come all of it
from the wound back of the ear, where the
woman was shot? A. No, sir; I think it
might have come largely from the
Q. Might it not have come largely from
the eye? A. It might have come, yes, sir.
Q. Counsel spoke of this blood mark you
saw on the ground as circumscribed. Did
her head partially cover it? A. Yes, sir,
partially covered the blood.
Q. Did the general condition of the body
as you found it indicate that she had
been thrown upon her head and shoulders
more than any other position? A. The
impression I had was that she had fallen
that way; that she had been projected
from the vehicle in that way; and in con-
sequence the clothing was partly drawn
up. That was my theory.
(Examination by Mr. Erwin.)
Q. Well, now, acting upon the theory
that it was a runaway accident and the
body was projected, it appeared to you
that it was projected head and shoulders
first, not the head and shoulders down-
ward? A. Yes, sir; and had fallen in that
way as it reached the ground.
Q. You did not find the body doubled up
as though she had fallen upon her head, or
rolled upon it? A. No, sir.
Q. Then the pool of blood was directly
in front of the face? A. Yes, sir.
Did you notice any behind it? A.
No, sir, it was in front of her nose.
You saw no blood upon the ground
behind the head or the neck? A. No, sir.
It was dark on that side—the light was
upon the other side.
Q. Now, if you had known at that time
the subsequent information you received,
that the woman was shot upon the right
side of the head, if you had known that
the axis of the wound had traversed the
upper nostrils, why, you would have still
had the opinion that the blood came from
the nostrils and not from the wound 2 A.
Well, it certainly might have come from
the wound and it might have come from
the nose.
Q. Was there any examination made by
anybody while you were there of any
wagon tracks or foot tracks up and down
the road 2 A. No, sir; not to my knowledge.
Q. Was the matter discussed by anybody?
A. No, sir; not to my recollection.
Q. About the tracks? A. No, sir; I heard
no remarks about that.
Q. No excitement or talk about tracks
while you were there? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there any appearance that a
wagon wheel had passed over this body? A.
I don’t think there was anything of the
kind. -
Q. The presence of the hat lying on the
body where it was did not indicate that a
wheel had passed over the body at that
point? A. No, sir.
Q. And the left limb lying behind the
right? A. No, sir, it lay a little forward.
Q. But did it indicate that it had been
pushed up by a wagon wheel? A. No,
sir.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock
ºp. m.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 4.
Dr. L. A. Nippert’s cross-examination
was resumed by Mr. Erwin, and witness
examined as to points on the left half of
the skull.
Q. I hand you the left side of the skull,
on which is marked a delicate red pencil-
ing; what is that red mark on the inside
of the skull 2 A. That is about the direc-
tion of the fracture that occurred on Miss
Ging's head.
Q. How does this skull compare in thick-
ness with the skull of Miss Ging? A. This
is an unusually thick skull, more than one-
quarter thicker than the normal skull.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to show this to
the jury. (Skull shown.)
Q. I hand you now the portion of the
skull representing the right half of the
frontal bone, and nearly all of the right
parietal bone, and right temporal bone,
and ask you to mark on this skull the frac-
ture which was noticed on the skull of
Miss Ging at this point?
(Witness marks it with a pencil.)
Q. You have, then, marked this skull up-
on the inside corresponding with the frac-
ture of the skull of Miss Ging upon the
right side of the head A. Yes.
Q. If I should break that skull here at
this point and the fracture should be in the
line of the blow, the fracture would radi-
ate from the point of contact of the pencil
this way, or this way—it would radiate
from the center, would it not? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. This fracture there on the inside
might have radiated from the center of
the fracture, or from the whole line of the
fracture? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I now hold in my hand another
skull, which has not been separated or
sawed; what is this? A. The skull of a
colored man.
Q. Does it differ from the skull of a
white man in respect to its whole construc-
tion? A. No, sir.
Q. In respect to the number of the
bones in the head, or anything of that
kind? A. No, sir.
Q. This exhibits, does it not, the fact
that the brain is fully encased in bone ex-
cept where the spinal cord or medulla ob-
longata passes into the brain? A. Yes,
sir.
(Herº followed a tedious technical cross-
examination.)
Q. As you testified this morning, neither
on ~ of the fractures on the left side of the
head, or the fractures on the right side of
the head, had any relation or radiation
from the wound in the back part of the
skull? A. Yes, sir; had no relation. They
were independent fractures, independent
of that one.
Q. I notice the fractures all lie upon a
portion of the head which recedes from the
outer portion of the skull. Now, for in-
stance, taking in connection with a flex-
ible neck and falling body, if a flexible
neck, it would bring the head down to
strike nearer the crown, would it not, if
it was flexible? A. Yes, sir.
The more limp the body, the more
the head would, in falling, be apt to strike
at this crown? A: I don't know; I have
not made any experiments to that effect.
Q. Now, you found the nose, the nasal
bones in this skull, entirely broken down








OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. º
upon the right side, did you? A. Well, I
don't know how far they were broken,
but they appeared broken. I only felt it; I
did not open the nose.
Q. on which side were they more broken
than the other? A. They appeared to be
more broken on the right side.
Q. It was the left eye injured, but the
right side of the nasal bone, the right
nasal bone was broken more than the left?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did either one of the wounds on the
sides of the interior of Miss Ging's skull,
did either one of them have any connec-
tion with or relation to the fracture of the
nose? A. No, sir.
Q. There was no connection between any
fracture upon the nose of Miss Ging which
in any way connected with either one of
these fractures upon either side of the
head? A. No, sir.
Q. If you could remove the entire skull
the brain would be found not only to be a
mass, but held in its place by these mem-
branes? A. Yes, sir.
Q. when the brain is full and a blow is
struck upon the skull the fracture may be
made, may it not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Suppose the brain, now, is perforated,
and its elasticity remºved, would it take
any more severe blow than before? A. I
think less severe.
Q. Now, there is such a thing as contra
coup? A. Yes, sir.
Q. If you strike this head on this side
and produce no fracture the force of the
blow takes effect upon the opposite side
of the head—the force of the blow 2
Yes, sir.
Q. And often it has produced a fracture?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When struck downwards upon this
smaller, thinner portion of the skull, when
the blow is over the top, and the laceration
at the base of the brain? A. No, sir, not
very frequently unless the counter is on the
side—it is rarely a skull struck on the top
will cause a fracture at the base.
Q. This principle of contra coup is pro-
duced when the brain has no elasticity,
does it not, when there is no vent to it?
For instance, strike an empty egg shell
with a small hammer, you will break the
egg only where the hammer strikes it? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Take the egg shell full and strike it,
upon one side, the principle of contra.
coup would break the shell on the other
side? A. I don’t know.
Q. It might not with the egg—it would
with the head? A. No, sir. I don’t think
you would apply the same principle there.
I think the elasticity of the brain is rather
in favor of not allowing the break to occur
on the other side from which the skull is
struck.
Q. The brain, as I understood you in
your testimony, was taken out of the skull
before the fracture was discovered? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then any injury to the brain oppo-
site the fracture must have been omitted
or undiscovered by you in the examination
which you made? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It is more than probable that there is
an injury in the brain opposite each one
of these fractures? A. No, sir, we would
have seen that after the skull cap was
taken off; we would certainly have noticed
the injury to the covering of the brain or
the brain itself.
Q. Did you examine the brain after the
fractures were noticed 2 A. Yes, sir; be-
fore it was removed out of the cavity,
after the fractures were noticed and be-
fore it was removed out of the cavity.
Q. Then this blow which caused these
fractures was not delivered at a point
where the membranes of the brain would
have been injured had the blow been se-
vere enough, because that fracture was
not made at a given point, but must have
been as extensive as the fracture itself?
A. It must have been an extensive blow.
Q. If it had been a blow which had been
delivered at the center of the line of the
fracture, it must necessarily have injured
the dura mater, must it not, to have made
that long line fracture? A. Yes, sir, I
think so.
Q. And there is no injury to the dura.
mater—it was a long blow, distributed on
the whole skull, that made that fracture?
A. Long or wide, or both together.
. How high on this skull would the
forehead of Miss Ging have been in refer-
ence to the hair? A. Just about here. (In-
dicating.)
Q. This hair in being combed, gathered
up here and carried back on the head here,
would be the thickest part at this point
where my finger is? A. I should think so.
Q. So that if a blow was leveled upon this
point here the hair would be a great pro-
tection 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. To any abrasion of the skin covering
or the scalp? A. Yes, sir. The same would
be true on the other side. The line of frac-
ture on both sides of the skull lay under
where the hair would be combed across the
back of the temples. With the exception of
the contusion.
Q. What did you do with Miss Ging's
brain? A. Put it back after it was re-
moved.
º Were any organs preserved? A. Yes,
slr.
Q. But no portion of the brain or por-
tion of its covering? A. No, no portion of
the head or skull.
Q. What would be the effect upon a per-
son of Miss Ging's constitution and appear-
ance to strike her upon the head strong
enough to make the fracture upon the right
side of the head described by you, in regard
to any unconsciousness, stunning and help-
lessness? A. It would not necessarily
make her unconscious. The probability
would be that, the person living, enough
blood would be effused to make her uncon-
scious in a little while.
Q. Would not the concussion suspend her
consciousness? A. It will.
Q. And the concussion of a blow on the
other side of the head sufficient to make
the fracture would have the same effect?
A. It would ordinarily upon a person of
her construction and composition.
Q. Now, I want to turn to another
branch of this wound; that is the blood
vessels which would be cut in the line of
the wound. In its course the bullet reached
none of the arterial circulating vessels of
the body below the neck? A. Not below
the neck, no, sir.
Q. It only reached or could touch ves-
sels which were connected with that por-
tion of the head described by the line, or
axis of this wound? A. There is one blood
vessel which does reach the outside of the
body up in the eyes, but not in the neck.




56 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. What arterſes were cut by this ball
in its passage, if any? A. Cut the internal
carotid artery as it enters the brain.
Q. How much blood is there in the hu-
man body? A. About 12 per cent of the
weight.
Q. What did this woman weigh 2 A. One
hundred and fifty pounds apparently; ap-
proximately.
Q. That would be about 18 or 19 pounds
of blood? A. About 18 pounds of blood.
Q. How long after death, upon a body
sitting up, would this artery discharge
blood? A. I don’t know.
Q. After death would there be discharged
from the body of a person sitting up any
more blood than was contained in the por-
tion of the body above the wound? A. No,
sir, not from the artery, nor from the vein,
for that matter.
Q. Not from either the artery or vein
after death? A. No, sir. -
Q. But during life, how long would the
artery continue to flow constantly during
life? A. That is impossible to say; it
would depend somewhat upon the vitality
of the person; until a certain amount of
hemorrhage has taken place the heart
would not cease to beat.
Q. Until the heart ceased to beat the ar-
tery would answer to the pump? A. Yes.
Q. Now, if the body was lying down after
this wound was made how long would it
continue to flow through the open artery?
A. As long as the blood was fluid and
gravity propelled it in a downward direc-
tion.
Q. Just as long as the blood remained
fluid, and the proper gravity operated upon
it, drawing it down, that might be more or
less according to the position of the party,
and according to their temperature, and so
on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long after death before the
wounded portions of the brain would be in
such a state of thickness as to practically
stop running through the arteries? A. It
would depend on the manner of death; in
some manners of death the blood would be
more quickly solidified than in other man-
ners of death.
Q. Suppose death had occurred from
blows upon the head, stunning and the con-
cussion, causing concussion of the brain?
A.. I think the blood would trickle from th
artery for at least several hours. It would
only trickle; it would not flow freely.
(Here followed another tiresome technical
cross-examination.)
Q. Now, in a living person, how long
could a person alive under any circum-
stances with a shot which passed through
the base of the brain and came through to
the optic bone? A. I think that death in
a case of that kind must have been in-
stantaneous, by reason of the shock to the
nervous system. -
Q. You do not think it possible for a per-
son to have lived an instant after the shot
was fired? A. I don’t think so; no, sir.
Q. What effect on the body, on the flexi-
bility of the body, would a shot of that
kind have; would it make it stiff or make
it limpº A. I think it somewhat depends
on the mental condition of the person
killed.
Q. Is there any possibility of such a
shock making a person stiff? A. I think
so.
after the gunshot wound.
Q. Nervous shock is prostrating in its
effects, is it not? A. Yes, sir; it is the op-
posite of stiffness or rigidity.
Q. And ordinarily, generally, you would
expect a person to be, after this shot, to be
instantly limp, would you not, generally?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When the muscles, the tendons of the
back and of the hips and of the limbs run-
ning and extending to the back, and of the
neck, which holds up the head, when they
are limp, what is the natural consequence
to the body sitting up? A. It falls to-
gether itself. It consequently yields to the
force of gravitation.
Q. A person sitting up on a buggy seat
and being shot in this manner, would, or-
dinarily and naturally, be so limp that it
would settle down with very little motion?
A.. I think so.
Q. It would be almost impossible to hold
such a body up by mere lateral pressure
down in one side? A. It would be very
difficult to do that. The body would nat-
urally work its way down, provided it was
sitting up straight.
Q. Its tendency would be to find its way
off of a seat, if it was on a buggy seat?
A. I should think so, sliding down.
Q. What will you give in inches or
lengths, or whatever you call it, in your
manner of measurements, the thickness of
Miss Ging's skull at the frontal bone,
where the fractures are described by you
on each side? A. I don’t remember, but I
should not think it was more than a tenth
of an inch.
Q. Did you find any of the bones of the
arms, limbs, toes or fingers broken? A.
No, sir.
Q. Did you find the shoulder bruised? A.
No, sir, not to my recollection. No ap-
pearance of bruising about the shoulder.
No abrasion of the skin, or laceration
at all upon the shoulder? Either shoulder?
A. No, sir.
Q. Any laceration on the hands? A. I
did not notice any.
Q. Abrasion of the skin anywhere? A.
No, sir.
Mr. Erwin—I think that is all, reserving
the right to examine about the other or-
gans if it shall become necessary. I don’t
think it will be, but would rather talk to
this witness privately about it.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Doctor, is it your opinion that the
fractures which you have described here
on the side of the skull were made before
or after the gunshot wound? A. It is my
opinion that these fractures were caused
(Witness gave
reasons for his opinion.)
Q. It was a shot which in your opinion
would be necessarily fatal and almost in
stantly fatal? A. Absolutely.
RE CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. It is possible that these blows or these
fractures of the skull which you have de-
scribed could have been made without visi-
bly marking an effusion of the blood before
death? A. I think not. That is, a visible,
external. They could have been made be-
for death without any visible external
marks, but not without any effusion of
the blood between the skin and the line of
the fracture.




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. º
Q suppose the first blow given had caused
a concussion of the brain, what would have
been the circulation of the brain pending
the other blow? A. It would have gone
on, probably not as powerful, but it would
have gone on even more rapidly than be-
for ehe concussion happened. The heart,
by concussion of the brain usually loses
its nervous supply, and it beats more rap-
idly but not so powerfully.
Q. The blood would never get to the
brain from the heart, would it? A. Yes, it
will.
Q. During concussion? A. Yes, it will.
After another technical cross-examination
Mr. Erwin asked:
Q. As a matter of fact, if you did not
notice the lesion caused by your own de-
tachment of the dura mater from the su-
tures on the interior of the skull you would
not have noticed a similar laceration or
lesion behind the dura mater opposite the
line of the fracture? A. You mean a
small effusion of blood?
Q. Yes, a very small. A. No, sir.
Q. You would not have noticed a very
small one—if this blow had been given, if
a blow strong enough to make a fracture
which you have described on the right side
of the head had been given, and imme-
diately after a blow had been given which
made the fracture on the left side of the
head, and immediately after a pistol shot
had brought instantaneous death, you
would not notice any effusion, marked effu-
sion, in that place? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What cases have you seen of that
character? A. I have seen quite a num-
ber of fractures of the skull produced by
blows, and I have not seen a single one in
which there was not both effusion between
the skin and the bone and between the
dura mater and—
Q: What is an effusion from the brain?
A. Effusion is pouring out of the blood,
caused by rupture of a blood vessel.
Q. Well, now, doctor, under the principle
of contra coup, it is highly possible, is it
not, that a blow may be delivered upon
the outside of the scalp, upon the skull,
sufficient to fracture the bone, and that a
laceration of the brain, the interior of the
brain, would be caused thereby 2 A. Lac-
eration caused by the blowº
Q. Yes, sir. A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't make a microscopic exam-
ination to find out whether this was so or
not? A. No, sir. If there was any injury
to the brain of that kind it is very plain to
see it without any microscopic examina-
tion.
Q. Now, doctor, you would find an ef-
fusion, or a blood clot, something to mark
it? Yes, sir, or a laceration of the
brain tissues.
Q. Well, if it was in the interior of the
brain, under the principle of contra coup,
you would not see it? A. I don’t think that
that ever happened or is possible.
Q. Well, why is it not possible for a blow
to extend at least half way to the brain,
as well as on the other side? A. Well, be-
cause it comes in contact with the elastic
brain tissue on one side, and on the other
side it comes in contact with the hard
bone.
Q. Which side on a falling head would
the fracture be, on the side that struck the
ground, or the opposite side? A. It may be
on either side. It is more likely to be on
the side that struck the ground, but still
it might be on the other side.
Q. Well, supposing the head is dead.
where would the fracture be, on the side
that struck the ground, or on the oppo-
site side? A. I don’t know.
Q. If a fracture is caused by the head
striking on the ground, and there is a frac-
ture on each side of the head, as in this
case, the head would have to strike the
ground on both sides to make a fracture on
both sides? A. I don’t know how it is in
dead bodies; in living persons it is not nec-
essary.
Q. Contra coup is where the fracture oc-
curs on both sides. A. Yes, sir.
Q. There was no abrasion on either one
of these ears? A. No, sir.
Q. Just describe her ears, how they stood
out in reference to the head, and in refer-
ence to their size? A. I did not take any
notice of the position of the ears.
Q. Well, now, a dead body will have
just as much of an abrasion by a blow
or a fall as a live body will, will it not? A.
I should think so.
Q. And therefore to follow out the logic
of your opinion that these fractures were
caused after death, because there was no
contusion visible upon the outside of the
head, then they could not have been caused
by a blow, because there was no contusion
on the outside of the head of this dead.
body? A. I don’t think I said that no
fracture can be caused without any contu-
sion on the outside; I think a fracture
could occur without any contusion on the
outside in a dead person.
Q. Do you mean to tell this jury that it
is possible for a dead person to fall and
break their skull without any laceration or
abrasion or contusion of the scalp, or the
ear or the face? A. That is my opinion,
yes, sir. I think it is very likely, if the
parts struck are protected by hair, or by
clothing, for instance.
Q. Well, suppose a whole body, composed.
of head, neck, shoulders, arms, elbows,
hands, hip, back, knees, ankles, and ev-
erything else falls, you believe it possi-
ble for them to fall and fracture the skull.
on both sides without any abrasion upon
the body? A. I think so, yes, sir.
RE-DIPECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. I understand you, doctor, that this what
we call contra coup might occur by the
fall of a body shortly after life ceases?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in this case if the deceased had
been shot and life was extinct before
thrown from the buggy, or before she
fell from the buggy, you might then rea-
sonably expect striking on the point here
where you have indicated the depression
was you might reasonably expect the
fractures which you have described in the
skull there? A. No, sir, not striking on
that point, because that is one of the
strongest points in the skull. I don’t be-
lieve a force applied to this skull at this
point could have fractured it clear down.
Q. Where would you expect the force to
be applied? A. I would expect the force to
be applied to the side of the skull.
Q. Would you not expect, if possible and
probable, that all of the external marks
which you found, the cut below the lip, the
broken nose and the depression that you
have described on the forehead, might have
occurred from the fall of a person after



58 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
life was extinct” A. I think that is pos-
sible, yes, sir.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Well, by striking where—a person fall-
ing and striking on what portion of the
head, either where the nose is broken, or
the depression in the skull or the lip-where
would a person have to strike to make all
of those lesions, wounds and fractures? A.
I think a body would have to strike in
several places. I don’t think it could strike
on a plane and cause all three of those
wounds.
Q. If there was no contra coup, it would
have to strike on both sides of the head
to make these fractures? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It would have to strike at every point
where there is a wound? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And one at this point, one at the eye,
one at the lip, and those fractures would
not be accounted for by any of them? A.
No, sir.
Q. It would still take a blow on each
side to account for the fractures you found
in the skullº A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, if a body should come down a
toboggan slide and strike 150 different
places on the way down, all these things
may be done? A. Yes, sir, and more.
Q. But if a body was pulled out of a
buggy, or fell out of a buggy, it isn't at
all probable that the body would strike in
this way? A. I have no knowledge how
the body struck.
Dr. R. J. Hill
was next sworn, and examined by Mr.
Nye.
Q. You assisted Dr. Nippert in the autop-
sy of Catherine Ging, who was killed on
the evening of Dec. 3? A. I did. When we
reached the morgue the body was on the
dissecting table; Dr. Nippert and I reach-
ed there at the same time and we examined
the body carefully together for marks of
violence. (Marks described.) The hair was
burned around the bullet wound; I think
for an inch above and about half an inch
below the entrance of the bullet the hair
was entirely burned off; and the hair was
singed above the bullet wound, above this
inch I speak of, but it was entirely burned
off in this place I have described immedi-
ately surrounding the bullet wound. The
wound to the rear of the ear and in the
left eye was caused by a bullet wound; by
a bullet passing through.
Q. And, in your opinion, what was the
cause of death? A. This bullet wound in
the brain.
Q. Judging from your examination as to
those fractures, what would you say in
reference to the time that they might have
been caused, as compared with the gunshot
wound 2 A. Subsequent to the gunshot
wound, because the gunshot wound, in our
opinion, produced instant death and there
was no hemorrhage in the cranial cavity.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
(After reading from witness' report of
post mortem.)
Q. There was some effusion of blood un-
derneath the muscles which laid over this
fracture, on both sides? A. Yes, sir, but
little.
Q. Now, were you of the opinion that a
wound from a pistol shot or a wound from
a gunshot caused instant death? A: Yes,
sir.
Q. And you stated in your direct exam-
ination to the state's attorney that the real-
son you thought that the fractures upon
the right and left portion of the skull de-
scribed were subsequent to that wound be-
cause you found no considerable effusion
of blood either upon the exterior, that is the
portion underlying the muscles of the skull,
or any effusion of blood along the line of
the fractures of the dura mater? A. Yes,
Slr.
Q. Now, if the reason which convinces
your mind that these fractures were made
upon the side of the skull were made sub-
sequent to the pistol shot, because there
was only a slight effusion, because the
heart had ceased action, how comes it that
you found such great effusion around the
pistol shot wound, which also happened af-
ter the heart ceased action? A: I think
that is due to the contusion, the force of
the explosion.
Q. It was not due to the heart's action,
then? A. Yes; of course, the heart's action
cannot be instantly stopped, not an instan-
taneous arrest.
Q. The effusion which you found around
the wound, was that instantaneous effus-
ion, was it not caused by the wound? A.
I presume so.
Q. Then it was evident from the fact
that the powder had burned the hair off,
that the force of the powder on the mus-
cles or the skull, which you found under-
lying the effused parts was sufficient, was
of such terrific force, the exploding of the
powder against the parts— A. That is
my idea, exactly.
Q. Made with the terrific explosion of the
powder, the explosion? A. Yes, sir, and
the entrance of the bullet, of course that
was all together.
Q. But the effusion proper is caused by
the blow of the powder? A. I suppose so.
Q. But the ball outside of the powder,
struck the blow and made the laceration
only down to that point? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It had the appearance of contusion,
but wasn’t it instantaneous laceration—it
was the amount of powder that blew the
constituent parts of those muscles into a
jelly, like? A. Yes, sir.
. The powder is the concussion of some-
thing like 650 atmospheres of gas contained
in a single atmosphere of material, of
which the powder is made—that is what
it is? A. I don't know the proportions.
Q. Well, it is in that nature? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And that instantaneous force pom-
maced this which you call effusion right
down to the bone instantly? A. Yes, I
think so.
Q. Well, now, that is not the same kind
of traumatic force as a blow, is it? A.
Why, I don't know what the difference is?
Q. Well, a blow is a question of weight, is
it not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this is an explosion of so many
atmospheres which produces it, does it
not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Much more terrific in its character,
and produces more violent results? A.
Q. Now, a broad piece of iron, with
rounded edges like a portion of a T rail,
striking on the ear would make a blow
that would crack the skull without
abrading the skin, would it not? A Yes,
sir.



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
Q. Now, if the blow is only sufficiently
heavy enough to break the elasticity of the
skull, and produce a fracture of the skull,
it would not progress any further than in
the dura mater? A. Certainly, the force
would not go any further.
Q. Then you would not find any blood on
the dura mater? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You would if there was another blow;
but if death ensued from some other cause,
if the artery which produced the effusion
was cut off you would not? A. No, sir,
you would find a slight effusion under the
skin.
Q. This is a case the complications of
which in regard to the fractures of the
skull and fractures of the lip and fore-
head and the nose, and the gunshot wound
in the rear, you have never seen the likes
before? A. No, sir.
Q. And your opinion here is founded
simply upon the absence of considerable
effusion along the line of the fracture on
each side of the skull? A. That, and the
appearance of the fracture itself, as I said
before.
Q. Now, these fractures, if formed after
Heath, would necessarily have to be cause”
by force applied at some point of the sep-
arate fractures, would it not? A. Not if
contra coup appeared, it would not be
necessary to have it on both sides.
Q. Well, it would be necessary for at least
a blow or a striking upon one side of the
head corresponding with the center line of
fracture" A. I don't think necessarily the
center line of the fracture.
And where would the contra coup be
if it occurred at any other point? A. On
the opposite side.
Q. Now, you are of the opinion, I took
it, that this wound over the right eye was
about the commencement of the fracture
upon the right side of the head? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And if the blow which made that
fracture at that point, or if the head
falling upon that point and received the
blow there, contra coup, to make a frac-
ture upon the other side of the head, it
would be at a point directly opposite, to
correspond with the point upon the other
side? A. Yes, sir, it would be upon a cor-
responding line of fracture. The contra.
coup is on a corresponding portion of the
skull wherever it might be.
Q. The rule is if you strike a full bladder
of water it breaks on the other side? A:
yes, sir; and that is true in regard to
fractures.
Q. If the contra coup is to account for
one of these fractures, the blow must be op-
posite the contra coup, if you want to see
a contra coup you must seek it opposite
where the blow strikes, is not that the
rule? A. That is the rule.
Q. Now, under the condition of this skull,
while it may be possible for it to have been
broken with a single blow, it is more prob-
able that it required two blows, is it not?
A. Yes, sir, it is very probable.
Q. Now, if a long iron was used with a
large volume around the edges and extend-
ing the whole line of this fracture just
enough to break the elasticity of the skull,
the skull would yield at that point, would
it not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And would that produce an abrasion
on the outer or inner membrane? A. Well,
it would be apt to rupture the vessels of
the inner membrane, because they are im-
bedded in the bone itself and it would have
to rupture them. I think it is impossible
to fracture the skull without rupturing
those little arteries.w
Q: What would be the effect of the brain
on the arterial circulation? A: It would
increase the rapidity of the pulse and de-
crease its force.
Q: What is the effect upon the brain, is
not circulation stopped in the brain? A.
No, sir. -
Q. Is it not clogged, partially stoppedº
A. If it is it is death; if the concussion
reaches that point death ensues.
Q. Yes, if it reaches the point where the
subject never returns to life. But is it
not clogged for a time? A. Yes, but the
circulation goes on. It is faster, the ra-
pidity increases but the force is diminish-
ed; the strength of the current is not
great, but the heart flutters.
Q. Well, in concussion you would not ex-
pect to find as great a hemorrhage as
there would be if there had bene no con-
cussion 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Now, the broken nose had no relation
whatever to this fracture? A. No, sir.
Q. This fracture had no relation to the
entrance wound of the bullet? A. No, sir,
none whatever.
Q. And they had no relation to the blow
which caused the wound on the lip? A.
I don’t know as to the blow, but they had
no relation to it.
Q. And the blow, or the fall, which made
these particular lesions or fractures be-
ginning with the one on the lower lip, the
one on the bridge of the nose, or the wound
at the back of the head, and the bullet
wound, had no relation with causing these
lateral fractures? A. No, sir, not as I
know of.
Q. So if this fracture of the nose, and
the fracture of the lower lip, were caused
by a fall, by the body falling upon some
surface, why, that fall would not cause
the lateral fractures? A. Falling on the
nose and lips, you say?
Q. Yes, sir. A. No, sir.
Q. The head would have to strike upon
the side to produce the fractures upon both
sides, unless the coutra coup assists the
blow on one side to make a corresponding
fracture on the other side? A. There
Would have to be force.
Q. Now, is it not true in contra coup,
where the blow is administered on one side
of the head and it is fractured on the other
side, that there is no fracture on the side
receiving the blow 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. The force of the blow must break
this side and the contra coup on the other?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. But where the contra coup is not at-
tended with a fracture at the point where
the blow is received? A. Yes, sir, I think
SO.
Q. So that the probabilities here are
doubled, are they not, so far as an opinion
is concerned, that these two fractures must
have been received by separate and dis-
tinct blows in order to have made them in
the places where they are, and the exten-
sive character in which they were made?
A. The proportion is in favor of the other
side.
Q. Now, you found no abrasion what-



º OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
ever, except these you have described 2 A.
No. Of course, there was some fractured
bones within the cranial cavity which I
have mentioned.
Q. I know, but nothing external? A. No,
sir.
Q. Not even a ruffle of the skin of the
elbow 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Or any portions of the hands or feet,
or upon the ankle or the hip, or upon any
portion of the body or the bosom 2 A. No,
sir.
Q. Or the neck? A. There were two
black and blue marks on the side of the
arm, but they were more in the nature of a
pinch.
Q. And, as I understand, they had been
of some days’ duration, from their yel-
lowish character? A. Yes, sir, they had
that appearance.
Q. Well, it is not probable, is it, if it is
possible at all, that a human hod- ºld
fall from any considerable height and have
no abrasions upon any surface or t. uy
whatever, and break its skull, as you have
described, breaking the bridge of its nose,
and cutting its lip nearly off? A. No, sir.
Q. Doctor, was there any place, any cav-
ity to receive this blood–did this wound on
the back of the head cut into the alimen-
tary canal in any way? A. No, sir.
Q. It did not go into the stomach in any
way? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there no way that the blood
could have gone into the stomach from
that wound 2 A. Well, it is possible it
could have gone into the stomach through
the fracture of the nose.
Q. As I understand you the bullet wound
coming to the left optic missed the nasal
orfices? A. Yes, sir, but it came so near on
the inside that it is possible there might
have been some laceration; but we didn't
examine into that; you see everything was
blown out together.
Q. Exactly, that is a very important
point. The jury understands that the track
made by the ball, from its entrance into
the back portion of the occipital bone, into
the left foramen, didn't touch the nostrils
or the canals which the nostrils connect
with 2 A. Not as far as we saw.
Q. Now, you have found the nostrils
full of clotted blood? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that portion of the cartoid
branch, the artery which supplies the nose
with circulation, cut with the ball in its
passage through the head? A. No, sir. It
was another branch.
Q. If the circulation of the nose, which
gave out the blood which was found clot-
ted in the nostrils was due to the heart
action, it must have been formed there
before the action of the heart ceased? A.
Slº.
º ºd if the wound, which entered the
back of the head cut off the branch of the
cartoid artery which supplies the brain
with circulation there was instantaneous
death, and the heart ceased beating. and
there was no longer any heart action tº
force the blood through any other artery 2
A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Therefore the injury to the nose which
produced the clotted blood must have been
produced subsequent to death? A. Not
essarily.
*. § it must have been? A. Well, I
it is more probable, yes sir.
*3. There ... not be any considerable
hemorrhage to the nostrils, not enough
to make a pool of blood a foot wide, if
the wound to the nostrils had been subse-
quent to death? A. No, sir. That is im-
possible, I should think.
Q. Now, a wound in the nostrils which
would produce a hemorrhage after the body
was lying down, pouring out, would have
gone down into the stomach and into the
throat, into the mouth? A. Might have.
Q. And when the body was laid down
on the side it would have poured through
the nostrils? A. As long as it was fluid.
Q. Until the amount had flowed out? A.
Yes, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. From your examination in this case
and your experience, is it not your opin-
ion that the fractures you have described
might have been occasioned by a fall, say
from a buggy? A. Yes, sir—I answered that
once, I thought it might.
Q. And if that fall was upon an uneven
and a frozen surface, it might have oc-
casioned both of the fractures in the skull
which you have described 2 A. I think so.
Q. You speak of a bleeding, a hemor-
rhage in the nose, and say that they have
been more probably caused after death?
A. Yes, sir.
Q: Why, more probable? A. Well, I
have no special reason for saying so.
Q. Well, is it not more probable, quite
probable, that it was caused afterwards?
A. I think it was.
Q. You think in this case it was? A. I
think so.
Q. And you think in this case all of the
external injuries that you have described
other than the bullet wound were caused
after the shot was fired? A. Yes, sir.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin: -
Q. But you do not think that upon a
plain road the lip would have been cut, the
nose broken, the head depressed and the
fractures made through three bones on
each side of the skull by a fall which had
but one contact? A. No, sir.
Q. Like falling out of a buggy straight,
with one point of contact, it seems impos-
sible, wouldn’t it? A. It seems so to me.
Q. But a continuous fall which would
bring the head in many points of contact,
it would be the same as so many falls? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. If there were falls it took a good
many of them, and if there were contacts
it took a good many of them 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, it might have been by many
contacts and they may have been made by
many falls? A. Yes, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye:
Q. Did you examine pretty closely on
the exterior of this skull to give the line
of these fractures? A. Yes, sir; both of
them.
Q. And you found nowhere any external
marks except the contused spots you have
mentioned? A. We were entirely unable to
discover any others; of course, we looked
into that point to see if we could, it was
desirous to find it.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin:
Q. But did you find any effusions of
blood between the skull and the muscles







OF TEIE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 61
underlying the skull? A. Yes, sir, between
the skull and the temporal muscles.
Mr. Erwin: Those skulls have been
marked and I will introduce them in evi-
dence in connection with the exhibits that
have been marked.
(The skulls were here marked exhibit.)
Mr. Erwin: Now, if the court please,
these three pieces of paper that we have
marked as exhibits here are not necessary
now, because the skulls are in evidence,
and we will tear them up.
Harry Gilbert
Was next sworn, and examined by Mr.
Nye.
What is your business? A. Foreman
in the Palace livery stable, Mr. Goosman's
barn out on Grant street.
Q. You remember the occasion of the rig
sir.
being engaged by Miss Ging on the even-
ing of the 3rd of December, 1894? A. Yes,
Q: What time was the rig taken from the
barn? A. It left the barn at 7 o'clock. It
went from the barn a little before 7 and
reached the West Hotel at about 7.
Q. Well, did you take any particular note
of the time the horse left the barn ? A.
Not exactly, but probably 15 minutes be-
fore 7.
Q. Did that horse and carriage return
to the barn that evening? A. Yes, sir, in
the neighborhood of 9 o'clock. The horse
came in alone, without a driver.
Q. Where was the horse when you first
saw it? A. It was just coming into the
door. There was a buggy standing in the
center of the door and she had walked
around that.
Q. Could you see from which way it
came? A. No, sir. She was coming straight
into the barn when I saw her.
Q. Did you attempt to make any inquiry
to see where it came from ? A. Well, yes,
I made inquiries, but nobody had seen her.
Q. You could not tell from the tracks of
the carriage? A. No, sir. -
Q. Did you examine the buggy? A. I.
did, yes, sir. I was the first man that saw
the buggy; I was the first man that un-
hitched the horse.
Q. Did you look it over pretty carefully?
A. I did. I unhitched the horse and sent
her up the run-way where we generally
send the horses, and I drew the buggy to-
wards the light. I supposed there was
something in it, I supposed it was a scarf
or something of that kind, and when I came
to examine it I found it was blood on the
back of the cushion, on the seat. I found
some on the bow and some on the back
curtain, on the left hand side as you sit in
the buggy. It was quite a large spot and
it had run down the cushion; there was a
spot on the back curtain, probably as big
as your hand or a little bigger.
Q. How about the bow—which bow was
that? A. It was the bow upon the left
hand side of the buggy, the forward bow.
It looked as if something had brushed
across it. It was not a hand mark; it was
about six inches long, right on the inside
of the bow, on the front surface, not next
to the curtain, but on the inside, a little
mite above the middle.
Q. How about the blood spots or spat-
ters, did you see any about the buggy?
A. There were very few spatters; it was
all in big spots on the cushion, and on the
-
back of the cushion also, and on the back
curtain. I didn’t see any on the top.
Q. Did you make that examination by
artificial light there? A. By artificial
light and by daylight, too. The first was
artificial light.
And you examined it in the morning?
A. Yes, sir; I pulled it out.
Q. Was there quite a considerable quan-
tity of blood on the cushion? A. Yes, sir,
considerable.
Q. Well, was it a sort of pool like? A.
Not exactly a pool on the cushion, the pool
was under the seat, and even back of the
seat, there was some where it had run
down the back curtain, back of the seat.
Q. The nºrare was quite a gentle animal?
A. Yes, auiet enough for any woman to
drive and a fair roadster.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin. -
Q: Who brought the buggy in the night
before when Miss Ging had it? A. One of
the men brought it in. Miss Ging drove it
there. She got there in the neighborhood
of 9 o'clock, I think. She came to the barn
alone.
Q. What sort of a horse did she have
that night? A. She had a bay mare called
Kit, with one white spot on her hip. I be-
lieve it is the left hip, nearly on the top of
the back. I don’t think you would notice
it in driving fast—you might notice it be-
hind her driving her. She had the same
buggy that night.
Q. Do you know what night before that
she had a buggy? A. The 27th of Novem-
ber.
Q. (Reading from card produced by wit—
ness.) “Nov. 27, 1894, she had Lucy and 26
buggy.” A. Yes, sir.
Q. “Got it at 8:20 p. m. and returned at
9:15 p. m.,” did she? A. Yes, sir.
Q. “And on Saturday, Dec. 1, 1894, Miss
Ging had Kit and 27 buggy; she got it at
7:20 p. m. and returned at 9 o'clock p. m. *
A. Yes, sir.
Q. “And on Monday, Dec. 3, 1894, Miss
Ging had Lucy and 27 buggy from 7 o'clock
until about 9 o'clock p. m. ” A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, now, on that Tuesday, Nov. 27,
did you deliver her the buggy that day?
A. No, sir, I did not deliver it myself.
Q. Well, were you there when she came
home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did she come home alone? A. She
came home alone; about 9 o'clock; she
asked for some one to drive her home
and we sent a man with her.
Q. And some one drove her home on the
Saturday night, too? A. Yes, sir, I sent one
of the boys. -
Q. Probably over to the Ozark? A. Yes,
sir, I don’t know myself, but I suppose
that is where she probably went.
Q: What is the name of the boy you
sent over with her? A. I forgot; I think
it was Ben Johnson that went with her.
Q. Well, now, did you examine that
night the lines? A: Well, I did not really
examine them that night; no, sir.
Q. Well, now, when you unhitched the
horse, did you do it as they ordinarily do
it in livery stables, pull the lines through
the back strap and tie them up on the
bit? A: I pulled them through the back
strap and sent her up stairs; we generally
tie the lines up on the bit on that floor. I
took hold of them and pulled them out of
the buggy and hung them on the back
strap.


62 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Did you get your hands bloody? A.
No, sir.
Q. Did you examine them that night? A.
No, sir. I examined them the next day and
there was not a spot of blood on them.
Did you examine them carefully by
daylight? A. Yes, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye. -
Q. What kind of leather were the lines
made of 2 A. Black leather, ordinary black
lines.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m., Feb. 5, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 5.
Claus A. Blixt
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Your full name is what? A. Claus
Alfred Blixt; age 41, I guess; I was born in
*53, in Sweden. I think we came to this
country about 1860; I could not tell for cer-
tain.
Q. Where did you locate? A. Spring
Garden, Goodhue county, in this state.
Q. Have you lived all of the time, that is
all of your life since that in this state?
A. I have.
Q. What was your father's work? A.
Farmer. I remained there until I was
about 27 or 28. I was farming for myself.
I came to Minneapolis the first time, I
think, when I was 32 years old. Since then
I have been here part of the time, and part
of the time on the Goodhue farm; and I
had a threshing machine of my own—me
and my brother together.
. How many years have you lived in
Minneapolis? A. I think it is about eight
years; I think so; I think I came here—
let me see, now—I think I came here in
*86; have been here constantly since '86.
Q. In what employment have you been
employed since you came here in '86? A.
Most of the time as a stationary engineer.
I learned that trade after I got my own
threshing machine engine, steam pressure,
and from that I was learning right along.
For how many years have you fol-
lowed that trade of engineer; that is, mak-
ing it your main occupation? A: I will
think over that. I will figure it pretty
close. I think it is about 16 years. I have
been employed by John T. Elwell, and I
run for Frank Cooke, and I run for James
Baxter & Son. I think about four and a
half, pretty near five years. Run for
them the first time down at Riverside, in
his stone quarry, and after that I run for
Frank Cooke. Had charge of an engine
all this time, and when he started it up
there at the stone yard, then I came back
to him again.
Q. Where is the stone yard? A That is
up on the Hastings and Dakota between
Aldrich and Lyndale. Worked there, I
think, about three years. I can’t tell just
exactly. I can find out by calling his at-
tention to it. I have had other jobs.
Q. When you could not find a job of run-
ning an engine you did other jobs? A. Yes,
sir. I tended bar a couple of times, two
times; once, I think, about four months and
the other time about five months. One sum-
mer I worked in the post yard upon the
East Side. I have been employed by the
street railway. I think I was on a car a
little over a year then, and ran an engine
for the street car company.
Q. Were you a conductor on the car? A.
Yes, sir, on the First avenue line.
Q. You were out of work last winter? A.
Yes, sir, part of it.
Q. Where did you first go to work in the
spring, or after your term of idleness? A.
I first went to work for W. W. Hayward
at the Ozark block, corner of Thirteenth
street and Hennepin. I think it was the
14th of April. I was having charge of the
steam machinery there.
Q. Are you a married man? A. Yes, sir, I
a.m. -
Q. Your wife is in the court room here?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you children? A. Yes, sir. I have.
Q. Have you formerly been married? A.
Yes. This is my third wife.
Q. The children that you speak of are by
the two first? A. The two first ones, yes.
Q. Have you no children by this wife?
A. No, sir.
Q. After you went into the Ozark block.
where was your home and residence? A.
Down in the basement of the Ozark flat. I
was continually employed in that capacity
from the 14th of April until the time I
was arrested on the 7th of December, if I
ain’t mistaken.
Q. Are you acquainted with Harry T.
Hayward, this defendant on trial? A. Yes.
sir, I am. I met him at he office the first
time I ever saw him. The office is at he'
Oneida block, corner of First avenue and
IFourth. That is his father's office.
Q. Was that before or after you engaged
in the service? A. That was before.
Q. Did you form his acquaintance to any
extent then 2 A. No, sir; I only spoke about
getting the job. I did not see him again
until I hired.
Q. After you hired and went in to work
there, how soon did you again see him?
A. I saw him "when I came in there in the
morning to work.
Q. Did you have any talk with him then?
A. It was out of shape in there, and he
had a manhole laid out in the expansion
boiler and could not get it tight, and told
me he would drop in to me, and I would
make it tight.
Q. I will ask you if from that time on
he had to any extent exercised an over-
sight over your work there? A. Well, he
was there looking around.
Q. And conversing with you in relation
to it? A. No, sir, he did not say any-
thing to me at all, hardly.
Q. Did you become acquainted with him
then right away from that time, that first
time that you met him there when you
were fixing his machinery? A. I was ac-
quainted with him from that time.
Q. How much did you see him from that
time on? A: I see him about hree or four
days after I started in to work; he was
there pretty much and after that he did
not come around at all hardly; only come
there once in a while.
Q. I will ask you now where your con-
versations and visits or talks with him
were from that time on up to the time of
the 3rd day of December? A. Well, he
was down there in the basement about six
or seven weeks before the time that I was
arrested almost all the time, most every
day.
Q. Now, examine that (calling witness'
attention to plat) and see if you can recog-
nize in that substantially the rooms in the































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 63
Aifferent rooms, marked, for instance, dry
rooms in the basement? Now, you will see
ing room, laundry, boiler, engine and ele-
vator. Now, tell us if you can see where
your rooms were that you occupied, your-
self and wife, where the boiler and engine
were, where did you work? (Witness did
º After you had gone to work there,
after you had become acquainted with
Harry Hayward, I will ask you if at any
time he made any propositions or sugges-
tions to you of doing any kind of work
outside of your regular employment? A.
Yes, sir, he did. I don't know any date or
anything of that kind. Probably the first
of the month before this last month in the
year. It might be in the other month.
Q. Probably October or November, do you
mean? A. November, or something—I
think October, November and December-
about the last of November. Something
like that, or the middle of November. I
don't know the date, or anything of that
kind.
Q. I am speaking now of the first prop-
osition—last November, you understand, is
but two or three days before this affair oc-
curred. A. I can’t tell—you can make your
own date. The first proposition he ever
made me to do anything was when he—
Mr. Erwin–Wait a minute.
Mr. Nye-I will ask you to state what
that proposition was. A. About the news-
paper men; that is what it was.
Q. was that in September or October?
A.. I think it was in November.
Q. At the time of the first suggestion of
doing something outside of your work you
had become, had you, quite well and quite
intimately acquainted with him? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Now, I ask you to state what that
first conversation was and what he said.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial and
irrelevant, and an attempt to prove a prop-
osition in a matter entirely distinct and un-
connected with this affair.
The Court—I don’t know whether it is
or not. I will say this to the county at-
torney. Before we allow any evidence
showing any proposition to do anything
other than this deed that was committed
at this time, you will have to prove what
he said in reference to that first. Confine
yourself to this killing of Miss Ging to
start with. It is a conspiracy to do this
particular act. It may be competent at
some time to prove that they were in con-
spiracy to do other acts of a similar char-
acter; but this should be the starting point.
Mr. Nye-Very well. I will pursue this
order. I wish to state to your honor with-
out any disclosure at this time that we
have apprehended and have the authorities
that will bear us out in that proposition.
The Court—You do not propose that you
have any authority to bear you out in any
proposition to show the commission of an-
other crime until you have established this.
I am going to confine you to that order of
proof in this case.
Mr. Nye-Now, Mr. Blixt, you remember
the occasion of the night of the 3rd of
December, do you; and what occurred that
night? You remember that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you before that time acquainted
with Catherine Ging? A. No, sir, I was
not; I knew her personally, that was all.
Q. You had seen her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. During your employment there, was
it your duty a portion of the time to run
the elevator? A. At noon hours, and from
half past 7 to 11 in the evening. I had seen
her when she boarded at the hotel before
this ever occurred.
Q. And you saw her at the block—at the
Ozark? A. Yes, sir; I had seen her there,
too. I never knew her name until I was
arrested.
Mr. Nye-I will ask you to go back prior
to that night, and state whether, if at all,
Harry Hayward, this defendant, ever said
anything to you in regard to a woman in
the block there, or a woman whom you
afterwards ascertained to be Catherine
Ging, and what he said concerning his
business relations with her and his pur-
pose towards her? A. That was after I
had witnessed the note.
Q. The witnessing of the note— do you
remember when that was 2 A. About a
week or so before the affair occurred. I
needed a throttle valve, and I spoke to
Harry about the throttle valve, and he said
for me to come down about 11 o'clock and
he would go with me to buy one. At 11
o'clock the next day I went down, and
when I come to Twelfth street and Henne-
pin I met W. W. Hayward, and he told
me that I should hurry down to the office
because Harry was waiting for me. I went
there—to the Oneida Block—and when I
came down to his office I saw Harry sit-
ting near the table, on the inside of the
table, and that lady was sitting on the end
of the table, not quite close to the table.
Q: What lady? A. That Miss Ging; I
did not know her name then, but I know
the face of her—that is all. He was writ-
ing and putting up some papers, and after
he had fixed up everything—I don't know
what he had to fix up—then he went for the
elevator man; and he told her first that she
should sign the note, and she signed the
note, and then he went out and got the
elevator man and had him witness it, and
after he had him witness it he asked me to
witness. There was two bunches of money
laying on the table. After I had witnessed
the note, he told her to take the money
and to go into the other room and count
it, and she took the money and went into
the other room to count it, and when she
came out she said it lacked about $10, and
he said, “You go in and count it again; I
think it is all right, because I counted it
Over two or three times;” and she went in
again and come out, and said she found it
all right. She was there about two min-
utes or so.
Q. I show you this exhibit (showing wit.
ness Exhibit G.) Is that the note that you
witnessed? A. Yes, sir; that is the note.
That is my signature. (Note placed in
evidence.)
Q. Then where did she go? A. Then,
she took the money and went down the
elevator. She said before she went out, “I
might drop dead, having so much money.”
I remained there. I don't know just ex-
actly how long, but quite a little time.
Q. Did Harry remain with you? A. Yes.
I don’t remember what Harry said. I only
remember that he was chewing paper. Af-
ter a little while she came up again. She
had been gone about 10 minutes probably.
When she came in, they went into the
other room, Harry and her; and they spoke
-



64 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
something—I did not hear it. Then she
went out again and took the elevator.
Q. Did you remain after she left? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did Harry say anything to you then?
A. He told me when I came down the ele-
vator that I should say, “What a lot of
big bills there was.”
Q. That is, you and Harry were to go
down together down the elevator? A. Yes,
sir. Down the elevator which this man
was running who had been a witness to the
note.
Q. Do you remember anything further
that was said before you left the office? A.
No, sir, he said only that he would be
ready now to go with me to buy the globe
valve and throttle valve. We went down,
and when I came in the elevator, I did not
say what he told me, because I could not
speak it out. And “what a lot of big bills
there was’’. I said; but I did not mention
the name of the Savior.
Q. Where did you go? A. Then we
went down on First avenue and First
street and bought the throttle valve. Then
we went straight on First street until we
struck a saloon, where there was a horse
with a moustache like a man. When we
came at that place we went to look at it,
and when we come there there was a lady
following us in the big room, and she
showed us a pig with doll's feet on, and
after we looked at that took us further and
we looked at alligators. Then, after we
got out we went right straight again on
First street to Hennepin, and took the
street car and went to the Ozark.
Q. That note, I see bears date the 24th
of November. Is that your best recolllec-
tion of the time that you signed the note,
witnessed it? A. Yes, sir, a week before
this thing occurred.
Q. Now, coming to the Ozark, I will ask
you now to state if he referred in any man-
ner to this note transaction?
Mr. Erwin–Is not this leading the man
right along 2
The Court–He can answer it, yes or no.
Mr. Erwin–That is a leading question.
The Court—It is not leading. It is call-
ing the attention of the witness to what
he wants to prove. It is important to call
the attention of the witness to the sub-
ject matter that he wants to have him tes-
tify to. Objection overruled. Answer the
question, yes or no. (Exception taken.)
A. No, sir; he did not say anything then.
I went into the flats and he went some-
where—I don’t know whether he went in or
not.
Q. If, after you signed the note, did he
refer to Miss Ging in conversation with you
or his relations with Miss Ging? A. Yes,
sir; at the night the first time, at the even-
ing. Right in the basement. He said to
me in the evening: “I did not borrow of
her no $7,000; that was only $2,000.” He
says: “I am going to kill her,” and he
says that “I am going to take her down,”
or, “I have took her down already to
gambling,” and he says she gambles as
high as $1,000, and she even buys green
goods, he said. And now he said, “After
this I am going to take her to the res-
taurant and have her show this $2,000, and
then I will remark,” he says, “that she is
awful careless to show around so much
money, and she will be kued for it,” he
Rºys. He said then that he was going to
*ll her, and that he thought he was going
to make about $10,000 on her; and that is
about all he said that night, I think. And
then, furthermore, during the week he
kept on telling me how he had taken her
around the restaurant, and showing them
$2,000 around, and she had set the $2,000 in a
tumbler beside her when she ate; and then
the waiters remarked and he remarked
that she was awfully careless, because she
had so much money with her, and she
might get killed for it, and took her around
the same way, and took her over to St.
Paul, and had her do the same thing over
there.
Q. Was there anything further said that
night with relation to his financial dealings
with her that you recall? A. He said to
me that she wanted to marry him, that he
had promised to marry her, and now he
says, “I am going to kill her.” He said
that he was going to get her to sign the
life insurance policy over to him as se-
curity for the money. Then he said to me,
“I have got all the money from her, and
most all the money from her; and now I
am going to have her sign her life insur-
ance policy over to me and kill her.” The
next conversation he made, he said he was
going to have her take out a horse and go
out riding alone. That was some days
after, probably the next evening after, he
said, “I am going to have her go to the
stable and take out a horse alone and ride
out, and then I meet her down around
Central Park,” he said, somewhere, and he
says, “When she gets out there then I will
go in the buggy and ride around with her
and send her back to the stable, and
some of the Goosmans; the Goosman man
or some man will take her back to the flat,
and then he take the horse back, and throw
all the suspicion away from me,” he says.
Then he said, he told me the second time
that he was going to have her take out
the horse, said, “I am going to have her
take out the fast horse at that time,” but
before that time he said to me, “I am go-
ing to take the horse out and take a ride
myself today, and go out himself some-
where to find out a place where there are
some rocks near a road, and then I am
going to have her take out a horse and I
will kill her, throw her against the rocks,
and that will look like an accident; and he
came back and told me he could not find
any rocks. That was in the week after he
had her out that first trip. And then he
was going to take out the fastest horse—he
said Goosman had one horse that would
run away at any moment—and he was go-
ing to have her take that horse out, he
said at that time. He told me he was going
to take her out somewhere near—not very
far from the Ozark flats—it was best if he
could kill her near (the nearer the better
ie was) to the block. So, in the morning
when he was going to go and have that
ride, he told me in the morning that I
should go down to St. Paul in the morn-
ing and buy an overcoat and a slouch hat;
that I should further buy a revolver, and
he will give me the money to buy it. He
said: “I will give you the money and I will
pay you good for doing the other business,
so you go and buy it.” I told him I would
not do any such a thing. “He said: “You
can go down to some Sheeny, some second-
hand Sheeny, and buy it and bring it up
here, and I will pay you well for it, down
at St. Paul.” I told him I would not do




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 65
it. He said: “Don’t you know a revolver is
a good thing to have? I will pay you for
it.” I said: “You need not pay me for it.”
He mentioned the name of a revolver; buy
a colt revolver, which is the same kind he
has got, or something like that; and I did
not do that. So he came down in the after-
noon or in the evining. That was Satur-
day.
3. What time was it that he came down?
A. He came down in the afternoon late, I
don't know, about 4 o'clock, or after 4 in
the afternoon, and told me he had a piece
of iron about four feet long; told me “I
want you to cut this in two,” he says; and
I told him that I could not cut the iron,
because I did not have any such tools, did
not have the chisel, I said; if it had been
in the shop I could cut it, but I cannot cut
the iron with the chisels I have.” He said,
*Can you put it in the fire and make it hot
and bend it; if you cannot cut it off, bend it
off in the same way.” When he told me this
I throwed it in the fire, and there was a
fellow named Hansborough, a friend of
mine; he stood there and I told him I can't
cut this iron; I don't know how to cut
this iron; and he told me to take a piece of
wood and lay it on it and bend it. I says:
“I am going to take an axe,” and I took an
axe and cut around it as hard as I could,
and after I cut it all around then I bent
it off and hammered it both sides until it
come off.
Q: What kind of an iron was that, Mr.
Blixt? A. That was a small railroad iron,
in the shape of a railroad iron; a T rail;
what they use whenever they build, or
somthing like that.
Q. And what time was it that you got
the iron? A: I think it was between 4 and
5; something like that.
Q. After that was done, did you see
Harry again? A. Yes, sir. After I had
done that, then he came down and he
asked me if the job was done, and I told
him I had got it fixed; that I had cut it,
and when he looked at it, he says, “Why,
you G– d – fool, I wanted it bent.” Then
he took the iron and went away. He took
the shortest piece. He put it inside of his
coat and held his hands in his pockets.
He had an overcoat on. The other piece
of iron I kept down there. That was the
longest piece. I threw it in the corner,
opposite the hot water boiler. After I
was arrested I told the officers all about
where it was.
Q. Well, after you got it and put the
long piece where you have described, did
it remain there, so far as you know, until
you were arrested? A. Yes, sir; as far as
I know
Q. Now, I show you a piece of iron and
ask you if you can recognize it? A. Yes,
sir; that is the iron; that is the end I
cut off.
Q. This was the longer piece of the two,
was it? A. Yes, sir; I should judge the
other was about two feet.
Q. And this is the piece that you have
described that you placed in the corner? A.
Yes, sir. I will swear to that.
Q. And you think the other piece was
about how long? A. About that long. (In-
dicating about two feet.)
Q: Did you have any further conversation
with Harry that night, that evening, after
he took the iron? Yes, sir. Just a lit-
tle before he left that evening. He told
me he wanted to go down town and steal a
hitched horse, and he wanted me to help
him if I could. I told him I could not, but
he said he wanted me to go down and steal
a hitched horse, and he would tell me
where to go; then he would get the lady
and take her out—meet her and take her to
a place where there was a sewer, an iron
top–some place not far from the block-
and he said he would drop some money into
the sewer and he would get off and he
would make her get off with him, and he
would hit her in the head with an iron, and
I should be watching this, and after he
hit her with the iron he would throw her
against the sewer. He would then start the
horse off on a runaway, and he wanted me
to watch this, and after he started off for
me to come up and we would drive off. I
told him I would not do any such thing.
Before he left he said, “Where will you be
tonight?” I said, “I will be in bed,” because
that was either the first or the last of the
month, and that was the first night I was
off, because I had been putting in 18 hours
a day, and I wanted to go to bed. And he
said: “I want you to run the elevator to-
night.” I said: “My brother-in-law runs it
as good as I can run it.” And he said: “You
need not make any excuse; I want you to
run that elevator tonight, and I want you
to stay there until 9 o'clock, until I come
back, and, furthermore, I want you to
ask me some questions when I come back.”
And he said: “I always make in black
and white a memorandum of what I have
on my person, and when I come back to-
night I want you to ask me: ‘Have you
got two revolvers, one jack knife, one
watch, one pair of gloves and two hand-
kerchiefs?' I might get nervous and lose
something.” And then he went out, and
I run the elevator until he came back,
somewhere about 9 o'clock, I think, and
when he came back he said: “You need
not ask me any questions. I could not
kill the – — — I could not make it an
accident; it was not possible.”
Q. Where did that conversation occurs
On the elevator? A. Yes; just as soon
as he took the elevator and went down;
about 9 o'clock.
Q. Yes, where did he go and where did
you go? A. I went down to the basement
and he followed me up; and when he came
down to the basement in front of the fur-
nace fire, he took out two handkerchiefs
and all of the four corners were torn off
them, and he took all two of the handker-
chiefs and threw them into the fire, into the
furnace. Then I went to bed. That was
Saturday night.
Q. Did you see him on Sunday? A. Yes,
sir. He was there both forenoon and after-
noon, as far as I remember, that is, part of
the time.
Q. You say there, do you mean in your
apartments, in the basement? A. Yes, sir.
In the forenoon 2 A. Yes, sir. He
told me, he says, “Don’t you know that
people get killed in elevators?” I said,
“Yes, occasionally; I have heard of it.”
“Well,” he says, “I have got a plan to
kill her in the elevator; will you promise
me that you will start the elevator at any
time when I give you a signal to start?”
I said, “That depends upon circumstances,
what is going on?” “Well,” he says, “if I
go in the elevator late at night and I stay




OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
behind her and hit her in the head and
she falls down and I lay her head in the
way, and I give you a signal to go, that
will cut her head off, and don’t you see,
that will make an acic dent?”
Q. This was on Sunday morning? A.
Yes, sir, and I said I would not do any
such thing; I would start no elevator. More
than that he said: “Every time I go up to
her room she puts her arms around me like
that, and I would like to put a knife into
the – – –.” He said, “They have a
style in the East to stick a dagger into a
person like that; that kills them quick ev-
ery time.” I told him it is awful that he
should say such things. I said further, “If
the girl loves you like that and you can
do such things, that is awful, and I don’t
understand it.” I told him, when he told
me he wanted to kill her, then I said,
“Harry can't you make money any other
way than to kill her or anybody else?”
He said: “No, I would rather kill her than
to shoot any dog;” he said, “I would rather
kill her than shoot any dog.” He said,
“Blixt, don’t you know if there was a dog
and her, I would rather shoot her and let
the dog go.” And when he told me all
about this I told him, “Harry, this is the
boldest thing I ever heard of in my life,
or read of,” and he laughed at me, and said
I was a coward, and my conscience was
bothering me, and so forth.
Q. Did you see him on Sunday evening?
A.. I don’t recollect whether it was Sundary
evening or not that he had her down there
and showing her how the pump worked
and how they took in the water into the
boiler and everything, and he showed her
wrong, everything he showed her was
wrong; I didn't tell her nothing, he just
made fun of her. I don’t know whether it
was Sunday evening that that happened,
but I think it was.
Q. Well, then, how about Monday? A.
Monday morning he came to me early, just
as soon as I had been up, and then he gave
me a watch and a box of cartridges and a
roll of bills. He said he wanted me to hide
that, because if he got arrested he didn't
want them to find it; and so he said, “I
want you to take that tin box and solder
the top on the tin box and seal it up,” so I
could hide it, and he told me I should hide
it. It was a gold watch worth about $50.
Case watch, I think if I am not mistaken,
there was an animal's picture on one side
of the case, a deer or a horse, I think it
was a deer.
Q. And how about the roll of money, did
you see how much there was of it? A. No,
he said there was $50, all one dollar pieces.
It was paper money. There was a rubber
string around it. He said to me he was
going out that morning, that night and kill
her. I went and got my soldering iron and
I soldered it up, and he went away. Then
went up in the attic and put it in one of
those white lead pails, and when he came
back he asked me what I had done with it,
and I told him. I had hid it in the attic,
and he said, “You – – fool, that is the
first place they will search for it when they
come to search. I want you to go and get
it right away,” and I went and got it, and
he said, “I am going to take it and hide it
in the woods, hide it in some hollow tree.
He took it then. He didn't take the pail,
but he took the tin box, the box of cart-
ridges and the roll of money.
Q. They were taken out of the pail, were
they? A. No, I put the box up in the attic
in an open white lead pail, and I chucked
it under a board.
Q. Did he sav anything further about
the money? A. No, he said it was green
goods. He said, “Before the 10th there will
be a funeral here, under what circum-
stances it will cut no figure, but there is
going to be a funeral here before the 10th.”
He says, “After I kill her she will be
brought in here, and I will be so sorry I
will have to watch over the corpse all
night, and when the coroner has looked all
over her and everything is settled I will
be the man to take her East,” he says.
That was the Saturday, if I am not mis-
taken that he said that he went up and
whispered to the girl and said, “Why, she
must go with some other man,” and the
other man. That is what he told me that
he had said to the girl.
Q. Now, at any of these conversations
up to this point do you recall any further
statements that he made to you in regard
to his plans? A. Well, he told n×e that
“After I have done this plan,” he says, “I
have got to make $15,000. This plan will
bring me $10,000, and I have got to
make $5,000 somewhere else to have $15,000,"
to complete the plan he was going to have
in the East.
Q. Now, when did you see him after that
Monday morning? A. The next time that
I saw him, if I remember, was late in the
evening—I know it was dark, and he came
down, and he had a bottle of whisky. It
was a little pint bottle, with one of these
labels of white paper, and there were some
letters on there. It was a tin screw on the
top. He said: ‘‘Blixt, here is some whis-
ky.” I said: “I don’t want any whisky,
Harry; I don’t drink no whisky.” “Well,”
he said, “you — — fool, this is not com-
mon whisky,” he says; “take some of it.”
Well, then, I took the bottle, and I meant
to set it away, and after I took the bottle
away from him he said: “Hold on, you
can't have the bottle; I want the bottle.
You go and get another bottle, and I will
put some in another bottle for you.” And
I went and got a bottle and he poured some
into it, and he said: “Drink some of it,”
and I drank about half of it and I set it
aside, and he said: “I am going out to-
night, and I want you to help me. You
have got to help me. Tonight she is going
to die. It cuts no figure, but tonight she
is going to die,” and then he told me about
everything he was going to do. I said:
“Harry, can’t you try to make money some
other way and not kill the poor little girl?”
He said: “I would rather kill her than any
dog I ever saw; it does me good to kill
people.” And then he told me he had kill-
ed two before, and it was nothing to kill
people. He said he had killed two before—
one Chinaman, and the other he would not
tell me who it was, and he said he had
wounded the third one. Then I told him I
could not help him, and he said: “Well, it
makes no difference for you to say that,
Blixt; no excuse. You have got to help me,
or I will have to kill you, anyway. If you
don’t help me I will kill you, and if you
help me you are all right.” He says.
“Come here,” and he called me over to this
bench, and he says: “Now, I don’t believe
in you wife. I think it is a good thing
that she was not living, and I want to kill










OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. sº
your wife, because I am afraid she might
hurt both you and me.” I said: “No, I am
not afraid of my wife; she don’t know any-
thing, and I will not tell her anything, that
I will promise you.”
Continuing Blixt said: “And he says:
Don't you know when I promise you any-
thing I will do it?' I says, “Yes, I know
it,” but I said, ‘Harry, whatever you do
with me, don't hurt my wife.” (Witness
here began crying.) And he says, “If you
come to my wishes and do what I want
you to do your wife is all right, but if you
don’t, she is not.’ And I says, “You can do
whatever you like with me, but don’t touch
my wife.” He says, “You — — coward.”
He noticed I was crying, and he says, “You
are nothing but a coward, and your con-
science is bothering you.” And he says, “I
have this plan all laid out so the smartest
detectives in the world can’t get at it—
don't you know when I make a plan it is
so deep down that the smartest detectives
can’t get at it.” He says, “Go and do what
I tell you to do and your wife is all right.”
I says, “All right, Harry, I will do what-
ever you say.” Then he came to me and
says, “Now you can take my revolver, but
I want to write a receipt,” he says, “to
show that you have bought my revolver
from me.’ And I says, “I won't sign it—I
won't sign any receipt.” “Well,” he says, “if
you don’t want to do that I want you to
tie a string around the revolver and make
it so you can run your fist through the
string, so I am sure you won’t drop it.' I
says, “no, I don’t want any string around
the revolver.”
Continuing the recital, Blixt said: And
he says “you had better take it away if
you don't sign the receipt, you better put a
string on it.” And he gave me six cart-
ridges, he says “They are extra long and
don't belong to the revolver, but they are
long and good, and after you have killed
her, you take these extra cartridges and
put them in the revolver—take the extra.
ones out and put in these other ones that
belong to the revolver and put the revolver
under my pillow when you come back.”
Then he says, “When I get ready, you
come up to my flat and I will instruct you
where to go and all about it.” And he
left me for a little while and went away, I
don't know how long he was out, but after
a while he came back running and he
says, “put your coat on and come on.”
My wife said to me, just before I was
ready to go, “Ask Harry if I can have my
sewing machine up here,” and I did, and
he did not answer me at all. Now, he said
"You go out on the other side of Hennepin
and wait for me until I come out, and
when you see me come out you follow me
away down to the corner of Kenwood and
Hennepin, and when you see me coming
you follow me.” And I went across to Hen-
nepin avenue and I went down pretty
nearly two blocks and I stood there watch-
ing until I saw him coming, and I walked
ahead and when I got down to the corner
of Kenwood and Hennepin I turned right
*ound, and as soon as I got to that path—
there is a little pathway going across a
Vacant lot there—I saw him out across
there and as soon as he cut across there
he hawked and coughed, and that meant
I should come that way with him, and af-
ter. I saw him and he coughed for me he
went on probably four rods further and I
followed him up; and after I got across
the first street, Lyndale, I think, I followed
him a block further, he crossed the street
and when I came to where he crossed the
the street I saw a buggy and a horse and
he was standing there with her.
Q. State what occurred fully? A. Well,
what he said to her I don’t know because
they were walking along. And I stood
there by the buggy and after I had talked
with her he came around by the buggy
and he says, “Get in there,” and he took
me by the arm and he said, Get in.” And
I lost my cap in getting in. And he picked
it up and he went around and whispered to
her. Then he said, “You drive up to Hen-
nepin and go around Hennepin boulevard,
around to Lake street and follow around
the West side of Lake Calhoun, and I will
meet you, I will have a team, and when
you meet the two horses you exchange
with us, you take the two horses and I
will take you back.” He said to me and
her both that we should keep our heads
in pretty close so that we would not be no-
ticed.
Q. Well, before you got into the buggy,
did he make any explanation or statement
to her in regard to you? He said: “This
man is one of the gang; he is in it, too.”
So he wanted me to go with her. I sup-
pose she refused or something.
Q. Was the top of the buggy up? A.
The top was up. I turned and went right
back to Hennepin avenue, and then on
Hennepin boulevard right straight to Lake
street, and I turned around there, and went
out on the west side of Lake Calhoun. I
left Hayward at the place where I got into
the buggy.
Q. Did you see him after you got ºf A.
No, sir, not as I remember. After I went
up on Hennepin and got on the Hennepin
boulevard I kept on going until—well, I
forgot something that he said before we
started. Have I a right to state it?
. Yes, sir. A. He says: “After you
have killed her I want you to take the
cloak off, and I want you to carry it with
you as far as possible, and when you leave
the horse then drop it; and he said: “Then
start the horse off on a runaway.” That is
what he told me before he started from the
buggy.
Q. Well, go on. A. Well, I kept going
on the west side, and when I got as far as
the ice house, then she asked me if Harry
was coming, if he was out buying green
goods, if it was green goods he was after.
I said I did not know, and we kept on
going further on. And when we got a little
further she said, “I was held up here
once,” and I said, “Did you lose any-
thing?” She said, “No, we put the rings
we had in our mouths,” and that is all the
conversation we had until we got to the
street railway. And after I got up there I
had my revolver on the side of me like
this (indicating), in the seat, and she asked
me what I had there, and I said, “I have
got a revolver; Harry said it was the best
thing to have a revolver when you go out
this way; you might be held up—that is
what he said.” And we kept going right
on, and she kept looking for Harry at all
times, and every little while she stuck out
her head, and I kept on thinking it over
every little while how I could do this, and
kept thinking that I would get off the bug-
_







68 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
gy and run and leave her, and so I was
thinking a way that I should do that,
get out of the buggy and leave everything,
and then I thought of my wife, that he
would kill her if I did, sure, and that is
why I stayed in the buggy. And after that
she kept looking around, and if I had
wanted to I could have killed her 19 times,
but I could not; it was fighting with me;
| and I tried to raise my revolver so many
times to kill her and could not; and at
- last I got too far, and she stuck out her
head like this, and I raised my revolver
and shot—and I never looked where I shot
—but it just happened that I shot her just
where he told me to shoot her—where he
asked the doctor would kill the quickest.
I never knew where I shot her.
Q. Where did he say was the best place
to shoot her? A. He said it was behind her
ear or on the forehead. After I had shot
her, she was looking out, and she threw
herself back, and she sat right still. I
never looked at her at all. I kept going
about 25 or 30 yards further, and I was
scared then, and I took the robe off my
knees, and I gave it all to her, and kept
the robe shoved up against her, and I went
25 or 30 yards more in that way, and then I
turned around and came back as slow as
I could, and I kept holding the robe up
against her like that, and after I came as
far as where she was dropped then I began
to think it was too late for me; if I didn’t
take her out of the buggy then I would
have to take her away down town in town,
and so I began to work to take her out;
and I stooped down in to the buggy, and I
moved her legs close together, and I laid
my hands against her so that she would
not come out against me, and as soon as
she came out of the buggy she struck the
front wheel, and after she struck the front
wheel she turned around and laid down on
the side, and the wheel went over her
body, and I went on. That is the way it
happened.
Witness was asked to locate the points
on the map, and replied: I don't under-
stand the map. After she was out of the
buggy. I kept following up the road where
I came from, up to Hennepin avenue, and
I went across Hennepin and I kept follow-
ing up Lake street to where I got before
in my statement. I don’t know for certain
whether it was two blocks of two blocks
and a half, up to Lyndale; and then I got
out of the buggy and let the horse go
alone. Then I went up to Lyndale. I
followed up the H. and D. road, and I
went into a cabin there to see a flagman
that was there. And I inquired of the
flagman where the Swede flagman was that
I knew, and when I looked around I saw
the car going that way towards Lake
street, up to where they turn, and I thought
I would go on a little further and then the
car would be coming. And I kept down to
Twenty-eighth street, and when I got to
Twenty-eighth street I didn't see any car
and so I went to Twenty-seventh street,
and when I got to Twenty-seventh street
I stopped there at a store there, and a car
came along and I got on the car and went
down to Washington and Hennepin, and I
walked down to First avenue. I stood on
the corner of Washington and Hennepin a
little bit and looked for a Bloomington ave-
nue Call".
Mr. Erwin–Well, that is objected to; that
is after.
Mr. Nye-We think it is very material.
We want to trace him from the Ozark until
his return.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–We don’t care in that connec-
tion. -
A. When the car came along I took it
and went up to Franklin, and I went from
Franklin up to Twelfth, and from there
to Twenty-third street, and I stopped there;
there was a fellow who owed me some
money.
Q. What was his name? A. Claus
Bloom. And so when I went up there I
found that he had moved and I rapped at
the door two or three times and I did not
get any answer and I went away, and I
walked up Franklin to Bloomington and
when I got there there was a car coming
and I took it. I got off at First avenue;
and when I got off at First avenue and
Washington I walked down to Second ave-
nue just in front of a man’s named Swan-
son. A fellow by the name of Carlson was
there and he said, “I was just in having a
glass of beer; won't you come in?” So I
went in there and when I got in there there
was nobody there but the bartender and I
know him well, and he asked if I want-
ed to shake the dice. I told him I would.
and I shook one game, and I drank two
small snits of beer because I didn’t feel
good. And after I had drank the beer I
went down to a jewelry store and left my
watch there, because it was not running.
The jewelry store was at 209 Washington
avenue south. I had left it there before,
and he warranted it for a year, and it didn't
work, and I had to leave it in there again
that night. I took a check for it. From
there I went straight up Washington to
Hennepin avenue again, and I took the car
to the Ozark flats.
(Witness here produced the check re-
ceived from the jeweler, and it was marked
exhibit G.)
Q. Do you know about what time it was
when you arrived at the Ozark? A. No,
sir, I don’t remember when; I could not
say just exactly the right time. I think it
was about 10 minutes to 10, or something
like that. It might have been before or
after 10.
Q. When you returned to the Ozark, what
did you do? A. Well, I went right to bed—
no, I went right down into where I live in
the basement, when I came down, and I
went to bed. When I came into the flats,
Harry had left both doors open, and he
told me when I came back that both doors
would be open, both from the kitchen and
the front, and he said I could have these
cartridges removed, the ones that was in
the revolver when she was shot, and I
could put the other ones in, and put the re-
volver under his pillow. I did that. These
cartridges he had loaded in there; I re-
moved them, and I took these others, the
six that he had given to me, and I put them
in in place of the others, and I left the re-
volver under his pillow, as he had told me
to.
Q. Where did you make the exchange of
the cartridges? A. Right in the bathroom.
Q. was there any difference between the
cartridges you took out and the ones you
put in? A: Well, he said they were extra
long; I did not look at any of them.































OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. º
Q. Well, they were cartridges he gave
you to put in? A. The cartridges I got
loose were the cartridges I should put in,
and he said those were the cartridges really
that belonged to the revolver, but the oth-
ers could be used.
(The revolver was here produced and
marked exhibit I.)
Q. Exhibit I–I will ask you if you recog-
nize that? A. No, I don't recognize that.
Q: What kind of a revolver was it? A.
Well, it was a revolver with a spring out
here; this was not here; it was not this
kind, I don’t think.
Q. Are you sure? A. This went out here,
I think You see, I never used this revolver
in my life before—except I cleaned it before.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, be-
fore we go any further I want to call the
attention of the court and jury to a dent
that is found in one of these cartridges, be-
fore it is handled by anybody—a dent on
the hammer side.
The Witness—Let me see that once more.
(Revolver handed to witness.)
The Witness—Yes, I guess that is the one.
I have cleaned it. I don't know that it is
the one, but it is the same kind. Yes, I
know—I cleaned it a good many times, two
times.
Q. How many times had you cleaned it
before this? A. I never saw it but two
times before, when I cleaned it in the early
spring.
Q. Where was Harry's room in which
you placed this revolver after your re-
turn?
(At this point the defendant, Harry Hay-
ward, in trying to adjust the revolver and
take the cartridges out, cut his finger.)
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I want to
call the court's attention to the fact that
this man has cut his finger in handling this
revolver. Now, if there is any blood found
on the revolver afterwards-
Mr. Nye-Oh, there will be nothing of
that kind. -
Mr. Erwin–Well, that is all right. I just
want to call the attention of the jury and
the court to what has been done. Of
course we are not anticipating anything
of the kind.
This represents the first floor of the
Ozark? (referring to map.) A. Yes, sir.
And was it on the first floor that
Harry had his room? A. Yes, sir, in A.
flat. (Witness then located rooms in the
flats.)
Q. Now, where is the room that Harry
occupied, where you placed the revol-
ver? A: I placed it on his pillow in the
room where they used to eat, where they
had the kitchen, where he had his bed.
Can you point it out? A. This is the
room.
Mr. Erwin–He points out the room
marked “dining room.”
The Witness–Yes, that is where he had
his bed at that time.
Q. When you went into the block upon
your return, which entrance did you go in
at, the Hennepin or the Thirteenth street
entrance? A: I cannot swear whether I
went in on the Hennepin entrance or the
Thirteenth street entrance.
Q. How was his room, was it light or
dark when you went in? A. If I am not
mistaken, there was a light burning away
down low in his bedroom.
Q: What did you do? A. I went into the
bath room and I struck a match and I lit
the gas there and I changed the cartridges
and put the revolver under his pillow just
as he told me, and then I went down in the
basement. And I took the rest ºf the cart-
ridges and threw them into the furnace.
Q. Did you notice about what time it was
when you went back in the basement? A.
Well, I don’t know; I think it was some-
where near 10 o’clock; I don’t know
whether it was 10 minutes after or 10 min-
utes before 10.
Q. What did you do, go to bed then? A.
Yes, sir. Then, after I had thrown the
cartridges into the furnace I went to bed.
Q. Did you see Harry Hayward that
night after you had gone to bed? A. When
he came back from the theater he came
down there after I had gone to bed. .
Q. Do you know what time it was 2 A.
No, I don’t know about what time, because
I was in bed; I could not tell what time it
was; it was after 11 o'clock some time.
Q. What did he say? A. He was right
by me; he said, “Did you notice how this
meter leaks?”
Q. What was that, a water meter? A.
Yes, sir. And I did not answer him on that
question, and he turned around and looked
at me, and nodded his head, and I nodded
back.
The court here took a recess until 2
o'clock p. m. -
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 5.
Direct examination of Claus A. Blixt re-
sumed by Mr. Nye.
Q. Who was the woman that you took
the life of, and whom you killed that night?
A. Miss Ging.
Q. She was at that time stopping at the
Ozark Block? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is there anything further that occurs
to your mind in reference to what you did
that night? A. I remember Harry showed
me a letter, and told me that he had made
her write letters to him, and that he had
made an excuse to say that he should go to
Hot Springs, and that he had asked her
for $2,000, and she wrote back to him, read
some of it, and told him that she could not
spare the $2,000 now, the $500 she could
raise, without she took some money from
the $7,000.
Q. When was that? A. Some days be-
fore this happened.
Q. It was not that night? A. No, sir.
Then he laughed over it.
Q. Have you ever seen those letters or
either of them 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember on what occasion
that was 2 What night was it in the week
preceding? A. Yes, sir, it was in the morn-
ing that he showed me this letter. I don't
remember any day in the week, but it was
during the week before this happened.
Q. Do you recall anything at these vari-
ous interviews and conversations as to what
he said or was done, that you have not
mentioned? A. Well, I remember that he
told me when he had to get her the rig at
Goosman’s livery stable, that he said that
he had told her to tell Goosman not to tell
Harry. He told me that. I remember when
he first told me about this, that he should
kill this lady, that I told him, asked him if
I could not quit. I wanted to quit. I said:
“Now, Harry, I want to quit.” He asked
me why. I says: “Because I don't want
to stay here any longer. I can't stand it, I
want to quit and move away from here.”
And then he told me if I quit I would be in



- OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
more danger than I would if I stayed there,
because if I should ever say anything he
would shoot me, and any one of the gang
that knows or mistrusts me if I ever said
anything would shoot me before I had time
to walk two blocks if he had to do it in
Washington avenue, and said there was 20
in the gang in these green goods.
Q. Do you remember about the time that
he said that? A. He said that when he
first told me about this murder. Shortly
after the note was signed, because I told
him I wanted to quit. Then he told me that
all these messengers were sent through him
and her, between him and her, all these
messages that were sent out during this
time that was going on; and one messenger
boy came to me one evening and he said
that he was told that he should give his
messages to me, because Frank was so for-
getful, he said. Frank was the elevator
boy. Frank Tucker was his name.
Q. And in his absence you ran the ele-
vator? A. Yes, sir, at noons and after
7:30.
Q. State anything further, if you remem-
ber, anything that you can recall that you
have not mentioned in these various con-
versations. A. I remember what he said
to me after he had been in the sweat box.
It was the day after he got loose, after they
had let him loose, that he came home;
then he came down in the basement and
sit down a little while. I asked him, I
said, “If you get arrested again and go to
court,” I says, “will you hold out? Won’t
you testify then?” He said, “Not in 40
years”—just like this. (Witness illustrates
his position.) As if I had not done anything
or known anything. In the evening, the last
I saw of him that day I think was about 7
o'clock; after he intended to go out he
came back; I stood by the pump. He came
back and says he, “Now, I wonder if your
wife can be bought to tell anything.” Then
I took him, went against him like this and
said, “Mr. Hayward, my wife don’t know
anything, and she will never know any-
thing; you need not be afraid, and if she
don’t know anything, she ain’t the woman
that can be bought for this house, for the
money.”
Q. In these conversations which you re-
late which occurred in the basement with
you and Harry, were they in the presence
of anyone else? A. No, sir.
Do you know whether or not your
wife saw you at any of these times in con-
versation with him 2 A. Yes, sir, she did,
a good many times. She asked me a good
many times what Harry had to say to me.
Q. Was there any further conversation
between you and Harry after his arrest, or
after he had been in the sweat box, as you
call it? A. He only said when he went out,
that was during the day when he went by
the steam boiler and turned his face this
way and says, “Clear ways.”
Q. On the night of the murder, or early
morning, after the time in which he came
down and examined the water meter, a
little after 11, did you see him in the
basement again? A. No, sir, I did not
see him.
Q. Do you know whether he was in the
basement in your apartments? A. To my
knowledge, I don't know any more than
my wife said and my brother-in-law.
Q. After his appearance in there at the
water meter, did you sleep from that until
morning? A. Yes, sir, I was sleeping in
the morning.
I do not quite understand whether
you drank all the liquor that you spoke of,
being half a pint of whisky—did you drink
all of that? A. Yes, sir, I drank all of
that before he left.
The Court. How much was it? A. Half
a pint.
Mr. Nye. You emptied the contents of
that bottle first into another bottle? A.
Yes, sir, he said he wanted the bottle.
Q. What was done with the bottle? A.
I went and throwed it in the slop barrel
where we throwed all the glasses.
Q. What became of the bottle he brought
in 2 A. He put that in his own pocket.
Q. Is there anything further in these
various conversations that you call to mind
that you have not mentioned 2 A. I don’t
remember any now. Yes, I remember one
now. He said if I could not kill her any
other way, he should play off—he said, “I
had rheumatism once before,” and he said,
“If I can call her in there, so I will play
rheumatism,” and says, “I will have rheu-
matism so bad that the doctor will say I
Cannot get up, and when they think that
I can’t stir, I will go up and stab her right
in the back; when he can swear that I
could not possibly be up, because I have
had rheumatism once before so that two
doctors explained that I could not be
cured.” And he says, “When they were
not there I could walk around, and never
was hurt at all.” He said, “When he laid
his hands on me I hollered.”
Q. Had you ever seen him and Miss
Ging together before this time? A. Yes,
sir; all summer.
Q. Do you remember the time she came
to the Ozark block? A. No, I do not re-
member any date.
Q. Do you know where she lived before
that? A. No, sir; I do not. She moved
away from the boarding house; anyway I
did not see her there.
Q. How near to the Ozark is the board-
ing house? A. Close to it; the next house.
Q. Before the time at which you com-
menced your testimony, which I think be-
gan about the 24th of November, when you
signed these notes. I will ask you if he at
any time made any suggestions to you of
another similar offense?
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
improper, and an attempt to prove distinct
crimes of criminal matters not connected
with this; and an attack on character.
The Court. The objection sustained.
Mr. Nye. Was there any other sugges-
tions prior to that of making money? A.
Yes, sir; there was.
Q. How long prior to this time? A.
Well, the same week before; that this was
going on–shall I tell that?
Q. Well, you may unless
made.
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
improper, and not connected with this mat-
ter, and an attack on character.
Objection overruled and exception noted.
Q. State what it was. A. I had two pair
of old skates of mine and a pair of new
skates that I bought for my wife, and he
was around and she could not use them;
so I had them there and was going to take
objection is




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. º
them down and have them ground, and I
had two very old skates of mine, and he
came in the evening; I stood there looking
at him. He said, “What are you going to
do with these?” I said, “I am going to
take them down to the repair shop and
have them fixed.” And he said, “What is
the use; if they are old, old skates,” he
said. “Go and buy new skates.” I said,
“Harry, I can't afford that.” He said,
*That is nothing.” I said, “The first thing
I need, I need clothes first before I can go
to work and buy skates, and these skates
will do me first rate.” He said then he
had a hundred dollars, I will tell you, “You
take this hundred dollars and buy your new
skates.” I said, “How can I pay you
back?” He says, “That don't make any
difference, what do you care?” and said,
“Go and buy your clothes, too—take this
money.” I said, “No, I must know sure
first how I can pay you back.” He said,
“I’ll tell you, take my revolver and go out
and shoot any man, any lady, any child,
any one at all, and you can tell me where
you done it, so I know you done it, and
I will give you this hundred dollar bill,”
he said.
Q. Has he ever given you any money
for any crime for unlawful purpose prior
to this? A. Yes, sir, he had. When he
made me help him set fire to that barn.
Mr. Erwin. I ask that that be stricken
out.
The Court. Stricken out.
Mr. Nye. Will you state when that was
that he gave you money?.A. When that
was set afire.
Q. How much did he give you at that
time? A. Ten dollars; just handed it to
me from his own hand, and it was dark
in the basement, and I looked at it when
I came to the light, and it was $10.
Q. What did he say he was giving it for?
A. He did not say anything, but he said
he should give me $10 then if I helped him
to set fire to that barn.
Q. What barn was it? A. A barn across
the street from the Ozark.
Mr. Erwin. I ask that that be stricken
out.
The Court. It will be stricken out.
Q. In any conversation subsequent to
that time at which he paid you that money
—that is, after that—did he refer to that
circumstance of having engaged you? A.
Yes, sir; after this was done, then he
came down afterwards and said—he asked
me why, if I could guess why he had me
set fire to that barn. I told him I did not
know. So then he swore, and says: “You
— — fool,” he says, “Don’t you know
that I have told you too much; I cannot
let any outsider know my business, and
I had to make you do this to save myself.”
he said: “I had that witnessed, and had a
written affidavit and had it sworn to before
a notary public; and if you ever state any-
thing against me I will have you in state
prison for 10 years.”
Q. Had you, before he made that state-
ment which you have given, set fire to the
barn in question?
Objected to as immaterial and
vant.
Overruled and exception noted.
A. Yes, sir; it was set fire then; that was
the day before; in the morning he came
down and told me.
Q. I now ask you what, if anything, he
irrele-
said before getting you to do that, as to
the reason why he wanted you to burn
the barn ? A. He told me about the burn-
ing, having to burn, that it was quite a
long time before he could make me help
him. He says: “I have nothing, the slight-
est thing against the party.” He says: “I
don’t want to set fire to that barn to burn
him out; I only want the excitement,” he
says. He asked me how I should go to
º if I should set fire to it, and I told
1nn.
Mr. Erwin. I renew my objection.
Objection sustained.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. When did you last talk with the
county attorney; either one of these county
attorneys? A. Last night in my cell.
Q. Who were present? A. Mr. Hall and
Mr. Nye and Mr. Odell. I don't know what
time it was; I could not tell just exactly
the time, except it was dark.
Q. He asked you questions? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you answer the questions? A.Yes,
sir.
Q. Did your attorney tell you to answer
the question? A. My attorney did not say
anything.
Q. Did he tell you not to answer the
questions? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you answer all the
asked you? A. As far as I could.
Q. Well, when you got through talking
did the attorney express sympathy for you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Anything said about what you might
do when you got out of prison? A. No,
sir, not a word of it.
Q. Anything said that gave you hope of
joining your family again when you got
out of prison? A. No, sir; nor I did not
ask him. I have not. I swear to that—I
have not.
Q. When did you see either one of the
county attorneys before last night? A. I.
could not tell—not very long before.
Q. Which one was that. A. Mr. Nye.
Q. Where was it you saw him? A. At
the cell.
Q. Who was with him? A. Nobody.
Q. What did you talk about. A. Just
the same things; asked me a few questions
about the case, that is all.
Q. When did you see any one of the
county attorneys before that? A. Before
that I never see them before alone.
Q. Well, with anybody, when did you
see them? A. I seen them with Mr. Ege.
Q. When next before—what time was it
that you saw County Attorney Nye before
last night, what day was it? A. I don't
remember what day it was.
Q. How long a talk did you have with
County Attorney Nye on that occasion 2 A.
Just about 15 or 20 minutes. We did not
talk about the case, only he asked me a
few questions, that is all. My attorney
never told me not to talk to him or that I
should talk to him; never said either that I
should or that I should not.
Q. Prior to last Sabbath did you ever
have any talk with County Attorney Nye,
or in his presence? A. Not alone. Sheriff
Ege and Mr. Hall and Mr. Nye have been
there?
Q. Ten times?
times.
Q. Was that while Ege was sheriff, or
after he had gone out? A. When he was
sheriff and once after.
questions
A. No. Two or three



72 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. Was your attorney present? A. Yes,
sir, on all these occasions.
Q. Did he talk about the case? A. No,
sir; he only asked me questions then just
the same as he did now.
Q. You answered readily everything they
asked? A. Just as good as I could.
Q. You must have become pretty well
acquainted with them? A. I know them
all.
Q. How many times have you talked with
Sheriff Ege? A. Sheriff Ege—when he was
sheriff—came in there a couple of times.
He was never alone. I had a man in there
all the time.
Q. Did you talk with Sheriff Ege about
the case—did he ask you questions? A. No,
sir, he did not, and I never told him any-
thing. He only asked me how I felt and
how I got along—that is all.
Q. Do you know Mr. Curtis?
sir, I know him.
Q. Did you ever talk with him? A. No,
sir, not much.
Q. Did you ever talk any with him? A.
No, sir.
Q. Never told him anything about this
case? A. No, sir, I did not. Yes, sir, I be-
lieve I remember I spoke a few words to
him.
Q. More than once? A. No, sir, not but
once that I remember.
Q. What did you say to him then? A.
We were talking about what they told that
I could not say.
Q. What was there that they told you
could not say? A. That is about the plan
in the East, about setting fire to the block,
setting fire to the Ozark flats.
Q. You told Sheriff Curtis that? A. The
jailer.
Q. Is that the jailer, Curtis? A: I think
so.
Q. That is the only thing that you ever
said to him? A. Yes.
Q. Never said anything to him about the
circumstances under which you murdered
Miss Ging? A. Not that I remember.
Q. Nor any of the preparations? A. No,
sir, not that I remember.
Q. You certainly remember whether you
talked with Mr. Curtis or not? A. I re-
member I talked to him a little bit, but I
do not remember that I ever said anything
according to this, concerning this case.
Q: Who was it that told you you could
not give this thing that you wanted to
about the Ozark flats? A. What they ob-
jected to ?
Q: Who was it told you that you could
not get that in? A. That you can find–I
was objected to, not to say anything.
Q: Who objected to your not saying any-
thing? A. You will have to make that out
yourself.
Q. You won't tell that? A. Yes, I would
if I could—when I am directed to.
Mr. Nye. He says he talked with Curtis
about things he understands he cannot
testify to—that is what he means.
A. Yes, that is what I mean.
Mr. Erwin. You don’t mean somebody
objected to your telling things you told
Curtisº A. No, sir; not objection—what is
objected to right here I meant.
You talked with Curtis only about
things that had been objected to here? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And nothing else? A. Not that I re-
anember.
A. Yes,
Q. Do you know any of the other depu-
ties by name? A. There was another gen-
tleman there; he was there a few days;
his name is Johnson, I think; after the new
sheriff got in.
Q. Did you ever talk with him? A. Yes,
I talked to him.
Q. Did you tell him the circumstances
of the case? A. Some of it.
Q. Did you make a statement to your at-
torney of the circumstances of this case?
A.. I gave him my statement, the whole
statement. He took it down in writing.
Q. Where is that statement now?
Objected to as immaterial and calling
for a confidential statement between at-
torney and client.
The Court. If he knows where he can
state.
A.. I could not tell that I know where
it is, only that I believe my attorney has
got it.
Mr. Erwin. Have you ever seen it since?
A. No, sir; I have never seen it.
Q. Well, what other deputy have you
talked with besides Johnson 2 A. That is
all.
Q. You talked with Nye, Hall, Ege, John-
son. Those are the only ones that you
ever talked with, and your attorney? A.
Yes; as far as I can remember.
Q. Except that you have talked to Curtis
about matters which are now excluded?
A. Yes, sir
Q. Have you ever talked to any other
person than the persons you have now
sworn that you have talked to ? A. I re-
member that I told a good deal about it
When I was at the police headquarters.
Q. Since you were brought down here to
the jail, have you told us all the persons
that you talked to about this case? A.
There is lots more to say about it.
Q. Have you talked with any other per-
sons than you have named since you were
brought here to the county jail? A. No,
sir; not more than my wife.
Q. What papers were you in the habit of
reading before your arrest? A. I never
had any paper.
Q. Didn't you
Sometimes.
Q. After the death of Miss Ging, what
º did you have? A: I don't remem-
er.
Q. Was it THE TRIBUNE or Journal or
Penny Press? A. It might have been
both.
Q. You saw them both 2
may have been. -
Q. You did, didn't you, of course, in your
situation, read anything you could about
what was going on and what they were
talking up about this case? A. Just as
much as I could, but I could not read
much because I didn’t have muc time.
Q. Kept yourself posted on what the au-
read newspapers? A.
A. Yes, sir; it
thorities were finding out and who they
were accusing, and all that sort of thing?
A. Yes, sir; as much as I could.
Q. Now, you say that after killing Miss
Ging you came down and shook dice with
a fellow for some drinks? A. Yes, sir; a
couple of games.
Q. The horror of the murder had not
struck you yet, had it? A: I was sick
then.
Q. I say the horror of the murder had
not struck your mind? A. I can tell just





or THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 73
how I was exactly; that I did not realize
myself at all.
º, when was it that the horror of this
murder first struck your mind? A. Well,
it was in a couple of days.
Q: What day was it, and where was it?
A. In the Ozark flats.
Q. Where were you in the Ozark flats
when the horror struck you? A. I was
around my work.
Q: What were you doing when this hor-
ror struck you? A. No separate doing, be-
cause it was at all times.
Q. Do you recall what you did when the
horror struck you? A. I might not have
done a thing, because it struck me right off
as soon as I got my senses.
Q: Who was with you when it struck
you? A. I had nobody with me.
Q. What effect did it have on you? A.
Well, I was sorry.
Q That is the first time that you were
sorry? A. I was sorry before.
Q. What effect did it have upon you
when you came to realize what you had
done? A. It had an effect upon me be-
fore.
Q. Had you made any statement then to
anybody of what you had done at the time
of this realization, and the horror of the
occurrence struck you? A. No, sir.
Q. You were taken before the mayor,
weren't you? A. Yes, sir; about Friday
night, the 7th, that I was arrested.
Q. Before you were arrested, had any-
body been there to call on you and talk
with you about this murder? A. No, sir.
A. The only man I saw down in the base-
ment was a police officer. He is a man on
the beat. He talked to me. I told him. I
did not know anything about it.
Q. Now, how did you go down with Hoy–
did you go down with Hoy to the mayor?
A. Yes, sir, I went down to the West
Hotel. I met Mayor Eustis down on the
bottom floor, and we all went up in the
elevator together, Mr. Hoy and me and
Mayor Eustis.
Q. How long did you talk with the
mayor? A. I don’t know. It was between
2 and 3 o'clock.
Q: Did you tell them that first? A. Yes,
sir, I think so. - -
Q. You were there from what time in the
evening? A. From 7:30 until 2 or 3 o'clock in
the morning.
Q: Who else came, there while you were
there? A. Mr. Ege, the sheriff. I was there
quite a while before I saw Mr. Ege.
Q: Who else came there besides Mr. Ege?
A. Another detective if I could see his face
-I can't remember him. I don't remember
his name.
Q: Was it Mr. Howard? (Mr. Erwin here
equested Mr. Howard to stand up which he
did.) A. Yes, sir, I saw that gentleman
there; that is the gentleman. He was there
quite a while. Mr. Nye I think was there.
Q: What time did he come there? A. That
I don't recollect either. I did not see Mr.
Nye, I don't think, but a little while,
Q. They all asked you questions; did they
ask you where you was that night, the
night of the murder? A. Yes, sir. I told
them I was home. No, I did not tell them
I was home. I told him where I went. I
told them just exactly that I went from
the Ozark flats and went around where I
have explained. (Witness repeated the
story of the trip on the Bloomington car.)
Q. Didn't they say to you, that you knew
something about this murder? A. They said
they thought that I knew something. I told
them I did not know a thing about it.
Q. Did they tell you it would be better to
tell the truth? A. No, sir, they only said
they thought I knew more than I told.
They said they thought if I knew it I had
better tell it.
Q: Who told you that? A. Mayor Eustis.
Q. Did they question you there until 3
o'clock in the morning? A. Yes, sir; I don’t
know just exactly if it was as late as 3.
Q. Well, 2; until in the morning hours? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Constantly questioning you? A. Yes.
Q. And you constantly told them that
you knew nothing about it? A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you tell them with as good a face
as you have told this jury this story here
today?
Objected to. Sustained.
Q. In this same manner? A. No, sir.
Q: What manner did you have when you
told them that?
Objected to as immaterial.
Mr. Erwin–I have a perfect right to his
denial and the manner of it. -
The Court–Objection sustained.
Q: What were you doing, sitting or stand-
ing, when you answered the questions? A.
I was sitting.
Q. Well, these men whom you talked to
there on that occasion constantly told you
that you knew more than you would tell?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you constantly told them that you
did not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you did not change your story
that night. A. No, sir. º
Q. They were unable to make you tell any-
thing different from what you told them
first? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And there was a number of those men
constantly talking to you from the time
that you got there until the early hours
of the morning? A. Not all the time they
did not talk to me.
Q. Did they not constantly tell you what
they had heard from Harry and what they
had heard from Adry? A. No, sir.
Q. Did they not tell you that they had
Adry off in another room, and your wife off
in another room, and Harry off in another
room? A. No, sir; never knowed anything
about that.
Q. They kept coming at you with fresh
questions all night, didn’t they? A. Pretty
much, yes.
Q. With all the fresh questions that they
brought to bear, everything, you never
changed your story? A. No, sir.
Q. If all these men could not make you
change your story that night, it will be
pretty hard for me to make you change
your story now? A. I am a different man
from what I was then. I am sure of that.
Q. Now, do you say that you never talk-
ed with anybody about this case, or any-
body ever talk to you about this case un-
til you went to Mayor Eustis' room? A.
Mr. Ferrant canne down and told me about
it, spoke about the murder.
Q. Do you know Mr. McMurchy, of the
Times? A. No, sir; I don’t know him.
Mr. Erwin–Is Mr. McMurchy present?
(Mr. McMurchy stood up.)
Q. The gentleman there coming forward,
the tall main—did you ever see him be-
fore? A. No, sir.
Q. Never saw him before? A. No, sir.


º OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Did not Mr. McMurchy interview you
at the Ozark flats, have a long conversa-
tion with you a day before your arrest? .
A. There was some reporters there.
Q. That man there, didn't he have a long
talk with you the day before your arrest?
A. I don’t know; I could not tell that I
ever seen the man before. -
Q. You saw your interview published in
the Times, didn’t you? A. No, sir, not be-
fore I was arrested.
Q. Did you afterwards? A. Afterwards,
after I confessed, I seen it.
Q. Friday afternoon about 3 o'clock, did
you see Mr. McMurchy at the Ozark flats?
A. I might have seen him.
Q. What do you say, whether you did or
not? A. I don’t know whether I did or
not. I don’t recollect whether I saw any-
body or not; I am telling the truth. I
might have seen him and might have seen
more, because there were reporters there.
Mr. Erwin. Mr. Levering, will you be
kind enough to stand up? (Mr. Levering
stood up.)
Q. Did you ever see Mr. Levering there?
A. I don’t remember that I did. I can't
swear that I know people, whether I did
or not.
Q. Neither of these men had a talk with
you? A. They might have had a talk, but
none of them had a long ' talk. I don't
recollect.
Q. Now, Mr. Blixt, your mind must have
been sensitive to anyone who came to talk
to you about this murder, so that you
could not help to remember? A: I will tell
this much about my mind, that my mind
was not like any other, because my mind
was mixed up, and I was not myself. That
is true.
Q. Has that continued to the present
time are you still mixed up? A. No, sir,
I am all right now and happy.
Q. What made you happy? A. God and
heaven has made me happy. .
Q. You think you are forgiven 2 A. I
am; I am certain.
Q. And you feel now perfectly happy?
A. I feel that I have a life with God in
heaven, and I am certain of it.
Q. That takes away all the horror of the
murder? A. No, sir, I have a sore in my
breast that will never heal up as long as I
live, but I hope to know that after this life
I shall have a good happy life with God.
That is the way I feel. -
Q. How long have you been in that condi-
tion? A: I have been that way since 1 left
the police headquarters.
Q. Has that condition blotted out your
memory as to Whom you talked to ? A.
That condition has straightened me up.
You ought to remember what men you
talked to 2 A. I see you think I saw those
men—I did not have my mind settled to
know; I had too much to think about, and
I did not pay any attention to reporters; if
any such thing comes along, if they asked
anything I answered them, but I remember
that no reporter had a long conversation
ith me.
". where did you go that night after 2
or 3 o'clock when you Were in the mayor's
office in the West Hotel? A: Took me
down to police station. -
Q. Now, in the course of this conversa-
tion in the mayor's room, were there any
threats made to you? A. No, sir, no threats
made.
Q. They told you that the people were
very much excited, liable to hang the man?
A. No, sir, they did not say liable to hang
anybody, but they said they were very
much excited.
Q. When were you placed in the lockup?
A. I was placed in a cell right straight
ahead from the entrance on the ground
floor.
Q. Who was placed in the cell with you?
A. Nobody.
Q. Had you met the chief of police,
Smith, before that time? A. No, sir.
Q. When did you first meet him, that
night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long after you were taken there?
A. I don’t recollect; probably right away
before I came into the cell. They took what
I had and then placed me in the cell; I did
not have much to take away. I had a little
jackknife and a small memorandum book.
Then they left me alone.
Where were you taken from there,
before the talk was had with you? A. In a
room; there was a railing around it.
Q: What did they say? A. They said if
I know anything about this crime, this
murder, that I should tell. I told them
that I did not know anything.
Q. How long did they talk to you and
repeat that to you? A. Not very long.
Q. Then you were sent back to the cell?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, what time was it when you got
back to the cell? A. I don’t remember
what time. I did not have any time.
Q. Was it daylight? A. No, sir.
Q. How long before daylight? A. I don't
know how long. If I tell, I know I would
lie, and I ain’t going to lie.
Q: What did you do when you got back
in the cell—was there a bed there? A.
There was a plank, and I don’t know what
you may call it, to lay down on.
Q. Did you lie down? A: I tried to; yes,
Sur.
Q. You could if you tried? A. No, sir;
I could not. I was restless.
Q. Who next came to the cell? A. There
was one, as I told you, as far as I remem-
ber, the watch policeman, I don't know
what his name was or anything; he looked
after everything.
Q. Did you have any talk with him? A.
No, sir; did not say anything. He did not
say anything to me.
Q. Did you talk to anybody before
breakfast? A. No, sir; he gave me a little
to eat, and I ate my breakfast, and I
staid in there again.
Q: Who came to see you in the cell? A.
Nobody.
Q: Did you ask to send for any attorney?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you talk to anybody that day?
A. No, sir; not that I remember, as there
was any policeman or officer looking for
me.
Q. Saturday night did you see anybody?
A.. I don’t remember. I could not explain
if I did—I see lots of police officers.
Q. Did they talk to you? A. Some of
them; yes, sir.
Q. You told them all you knew about it?
A. No, sir; they did not ask me any ques-
tion about it.
Q. When next did you have a talk with
anybody about this case? A. After I had
been there I think the second day, if I ain’t





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. º
mistaken. I called for Mayor Eustis and
f of police.
º º you seen the chief of police or
anyone before that time? A: I may; he
might have been up there and looked for
me; not that I could state for truth he ever
was up, but he might have been up.
Q. wasn't he up? A. Not that I could
swear to:
Q. You had taken a great liking to him,
hadn't you—to Smith? A. No, sir; I liked
them all; I did not have nothing against
them; they did not do me any harm.
Q. Didn't you think Smith was a man to
be a friend to you? A. No, sir; he was a
good straight honest man, always kind. I
thought he was a nice man.
Q. Was that the reason you sent for
him? A. No, sir; I said I sent for Mayor
Eustis, told him to send for Mayor Eustis.
I don’t remember if it was him I sent to
or to another officer, but it may have been
the chief I spoke to, and I told him, and I
sent or spoke to another officer to send for
both, the mayor and the chief of police.
Q. Did they come there? A. Yes, sir;
Mayor Eustis and the chief. They took me
out then I think, if I ain't mistaken, and
went over the road.
Q: What place did you go over the road?
A. Where this murder was done.
Q. Did you, before you took a ride, tell
them you wanted to tell them all you knew
about it? A. Yes, sir; I told them. I want-
ed to tell all I knew about it.
Q. And that you would go over the road
and show them 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You felt that the time had come to
tell the truth, did you? A. Yes, sir; Mr.
Eustis and the chief and Mr. Howard, I
think, went with me, and we were four
men, if I ain’t mistaken, in a hack.
Q. Didn't you get out of the hack dur-
ing the ride? A. Yes, sir; stopped at a
couple of places, I believe.
Q. Did they request you to go out on the
ground with them? A. No, sir. -
Q: Who made that suggestion? A. I
did not ask who did. I went when they
told me to go. I told them where to drive.
Q. Now, after you all got in the hack,
where did you tell them to drive? A. Told
them to drive just where I have explained
here.
Q. Where did you tell them? A. To go
right on Hennepin—we went right on Hen-
nepin and went over the road, down Hen-
nepin to Lake street.
Q. Then, down Hennepin to Lake street,
and where did you go? A. I turned down
to Lake Calhoun, and I kept right on until
we crossed the street car tracks and we
kept right on the same road, and I told
Mayor Eustis and the people I had with
me where I turned and everything.
Q. Well, where is the first place your
hack stopped? A. The first place was on
the street car track just as we got across.
Q. Now, what did you tell them about
this murder at that time? A: I told them
that I didn't shoot her; that Harry Hay-
ward did the shooting and I took the
horse and the rig at that place, just as
soon as we got across the street car tracks.
Q. You told them that you did the A.
That I hauled her away.
Q. And Harry shot her in your presence?
A. That I had heard it; that is what I
told them; and that "I had heard the shot.
Q. Well, then, that Harry had driven up?
A. That he had driven up; yes, sir; and 1.
took her afterwards. I said she was dead.
I told them he got out and I took it and
went on exactly the same distance that I
showed them, and came back and dropped
her, just as I did the other time. I told
them she was sitting up in the buggy.
Q. What did you say to them that Har-
ry said to you? A. Harry said to me that
I should go ahead; and that he should kill
her and that I should take her away.
Q. And you showed them where Harry
brought the dead woman to you? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And what did you say became of
Harry? A. And I said he got out of the
buggy and came back. They asked me ºf
there was not some bloody clothes. I re-
member that. And I told them there was
no bloody clothes, because that is true.
Q. Well, what did you do to take her
around; did you lead the horse or get into
the buggy? A. I told them we were in
the buggy. I told them it was a top buggy
with a little horse.
Q. Now, did you go with them to where
you drove? A. Yes, sir; we went down
just the same as where I went and turned
around again.
Q. Now, how far beyond where the body
was brought did you go with her? A. I
think it is three-quarters of a mile.
Q. And you said you went down a mile
beyond where the body was found? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And there you turned around, and
then drove back to where the body was
found? A. Yes, sir, that is what I said first.
Q. How did you tell them that you put
the body out of the wagon? A. I told them
as I have said since and that is true. I told
them that I got her out of the buggy by
moving her feet and she fell forwards on
the wheel and there was quite a hard blow
when she went down on the ground.
Q. Now, you not only told them a delib-
erate lie, but you went out and showed
them, enacted the matter? A. Yes, sir, I
told them.
Q. Now, Mr. Blixt, you told them that
lie so you would get out of the criminal
character of the act? A. Yes, sir, that is
what I did.
Q: What did you tell them about your
clothes, what clothes you wore? A. I told
them just the truth about my clothes. I
told them I had the clothes on that I have
In OW.
Q. The same coat, the same pants, and
the same vest? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any overcoat? A. No, sir. -
Q. The same shoes that you have on now?
A. No, sir, not the same shoes that I have
on now. Those shoes are in the cell.
Q. And you say that is the truth now?
A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Did they examine your clothes to see
if they were bloody? A. No, sir; they be-
lieved I had some more clothes. Mayor
Eustis told me he thought I had more
clothes. I told him if they believed I had
any other clothes that that was a mistake,
because, the truth was, I had these very
clothes that I have now.
Q. How did you tell them you rode in the
buggy? A: I told them I sat on the right
hand side like that, and Miss Ging was on
the left hand side, and she was dead.





76 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Did you tell them she was sitting up?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, now, can you tell me where you
went beyond where the body was found,
what direction it was or What road it was
to the place where you turned around?
That mile? A. Yes, sir. I can tell; the very
same road runs across the street car track;
that is the only road I kept on. I kept on
the road right straight ahead.
Q. Well, did that road fork anywheres?
A. I think it went pretty straight.
Q. Now, as a matter of fact, I want to
ask you this impeaching question. I want
to ask you a question which I want you to
think about. A. Yes, sir; I want to tell the
truth.
Q. That night that you were with Miss
Ging you drove about a mile or not quite
a mile, beyond where the body was after-
wards found 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. But you drove around to the left of
where the body was dropped; the road bent
to the left? A. Yes, sir; I drove on the road,
on the track.
Q. Yes, but the road bent to the left, and
you were over near Goodrich street,
were you not? A. No, where the body was
in the track.
Q. You bent around to the left, did you
not? A. No, the road went perfectly
straight. -
Q. Well, weren't you near the lake when
you turned around to go back with the
dead body? A. No, right on the same
road.
Q. How far did you go that night beyond
where you deposited the body, with the
wagon? A: I have already stated that I
thought it was about a mile or three-quar-
ters of a mile, to the best of my knowledge.
Q. Well, then, as a matter of fact, didn't
you leave bloody clothes at that point?
A. No, sir; all the clothes I had is right
here.
Q. Did not men with you leave bloody
clothes there where you turned 2 A. I want
to hear that.
Q. Didn't men who were with you leave
bloody clothes there where you turned 2 A.
There were no men with me.
Q. Well, you say no? A. I say no.
Now, what did you tell them about
the buffalo robe that first time? A. I told
them the first time just the same as the
second, that I kept it up against her with
my hand, like that.
Q. How did you explain that you did
not get blood on your feet? A: I told
them that I didn’t because I did not.
Q. Didn't you tell them you had your
feet out of the wagon? A. Yes, I had my
feet in the box like that, in the wagon.
Q. And where did you tell them you got
out of the buggy 2 A. I don’t think I re-
member the names of the avenues there,
but I told them, and I pointed out where
it was about two blocks from Lyndale ave-
nue, and I told them I got out of the buggy
there.
Q. Well, did you get out of the buggy
there? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. You told them you got out where you
now say you got out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was it you told them you
waited for Harry to bring the dead body to
you? A. I pointed out the place just
across the street car track eight or ten
feet.
Q. What did you explain to them was
the reason that you kept that dead body in
the buggy for a mile? A. Well, I told
then I was nervous, and the first thing I
knew I was coming too far down town,
back again, and when I turned I did not
know what I was doing—I was nervous, I
did not know myself at all.
Q. You now say that you
woman? A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. And you say you shot her where—
Whereabouts on the road? A. About 20
rods before I turned.
Q. Well, then, you shot her about a mile
below, nearly a mile beyond where her
body was found afterwards? A. Yes, about
three-quarters of a mile. That is true.
Q. Then you drove her back. Did you
shoot her before you turned around? A.
Yes, sir, I did.
Q. How did you know, if your mind was
bewildered, how far you went before you
turned around? A. Well, I know as soon
as I got in between the big trees there, be:
cause it was dark in there.
Q. And you remember that you turned
around because you got in among the big
trees, it was dark? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, now, why didn’t you dump the
body out there? A. I don’t know. I did
not know anything—I was just nervous and
I did not know anything.
Q. Well, are you sure that somebody did
not tell you to carry that body away from
where you shot her? A. There was no one
told me anything but Harry; he was the
only one that spoke to me.
Q. Well, what reason do you now give
for hauling that body back three-quarters
of a mile? A. I give the reason that I
don’t know myself, and I was not sensible
at all; I didn't have my right senses.
Q. Well, you seemed to have pretty good
sense when you was going near town, and
you dumped the body out. A. Well, I
commenced to get nervous and I thought
if I didn’t get rid of her then, I would have
to take her right down town, otherwise I
would have to ride with her right down
town.
Q. When you started out that night with
her, that is, when you first saw her in the
buggy, wherever it may have been, you
know best, did she have a lady's traveling
sack with her? A. Not that I know of.
Q. A little lady's traveling bag? A. Not
as I know of.
Q. As a matter of fact, after you
dumped her out did you get out and put
her hat up against behind her, after you
got her out of the buggy 2 A. No, sir, I
never was out of the buggy.
Q. Did you get any blood on your clothes
afterwards? A. No, sir, not as I know of.
I tidn’t look at them afterward.
Q. They are just in the same condition
now as the day you wore them? A. Yes,
shot the
sir.
Mr. Erwin–I offer the clothes in evi-
dence. I want the jury to take him to the
window and look that there is no possible
blood marks on the clothes.
Mr. Nye-Well, I can have the clothes re-
moved afterwards.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to have them ex-
amine the clothes now.
The Court—Very well.
(At this time the witness stepped over by
the window where the jury examined his
clothing.)
Q. Have you got any other coat at the
jail? A. No, sir.



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. - º
Mr. Erwin–I would like to have that coat
her here; there are two or three miniature
spots on one side of the coat that are about
as big as the end of my little finger that
probably may be called or may not be
called blood marks.
The Court–Do you think that is mal-
terial?
Mr. Erwin–Think it is, your honor, when
he goes away to have it left here.
Mr. Nye. The state would be glad to
have an examination of the clothing made
if it could be determined there were blood
spots there. As far as that is concerned
cannot we arrange upon some time here-
after?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, but I say the coat ought
to be left here; the jurors have discovered
several spots which are open to debate, I
think, several small specks.
The Court—I don’t see how it is material
anyway; but if you think it is material, all
right.
: How long were you out with Mayor
Eustis and these gentlemen on that drive?
A. I don't know. I could not tell the time,
how long, because I didn’t have no time.
Q. Well, did you make any statement to
any of them about the circumstances be-
fore you went out? A. I told them that I
should tell the truth, and after we got back
I made my statement. After we got back
to Mayor Eustis' office they took my state-
ment.
Q. Was there a short hand man there?
A. That I don't know; they had a man
there to write.
Q. He took your statement down in
short hand, that is, he was writing while
you gave your statement? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin. Is that statement in posses-
sion of the state?
Mr. Hall. It is.
Mr. Erwin. We demand that statement
for the purpose of cross-examination.
Mr. Hall. We haven’t it here, we will
bring it down in the morning.
Mr. Erwin. Then I will leave that branch
of the examination until I get that state-
ment.
Q. Now, what did they say to you after
you had made that statement, who did you
talk with next after you had made that
statement? A. After I made that state-
ment they took me back to the police sta-
tion. And after I had been there a little
while I told them. I wanted to see him
again. I felt sorry I did not tell him who
did the shooting, and I called for him
again. I think Mr. Hall was sent for after
I told them. I think it was certain that
I called for Mayor Eustis, I don’t recollect,
but I think I did.
Q. Tell me now the facts about that?
A. That is what I am telling the jury.
Q. Did the chief of police come to you or
did you send for him? A. No, sir, I told
him. I had not told the truth.
Q. Who came after you? A. A police
officer.
Q. Took you outside of the cell and into
the railing again? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they told you your confession was
not true? A. No, they didn’t tell me that.
Q. You told them in the first place that
you were together at the buggy before she
was shot? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you tell them you were to-
gether at the buggy? A. At Kenwood bou-
levard.
Q. Well, whereabouts on Kenwood bou-
levard? A. Well, it was about a block and
a half or probably two blocks down, west
of Hennepin and west of Lyndale, too.
Q. Now, on which side of the street did
you tell them you saw the buggy, that
you were together at the buggy? A. He
walked down on the right hand side of
Ixenwood and he cut across the street, so
it was on the left hand side going from
Hennepin.
Q. On the left hand side of Hennepin,
but you went over to get on the right hand
side of Hennepinº A. We walked on the
right hand side of Kenwood.
Q. Then, where you saw the buggy was
on the left hand side of Kenwood boule-
vard about a block and a half from Lyn-
dale? A. Or Hennepin, either one.
Q. Did you tell them that first? A. Yes,
sir, I think so.
Q. Did you tell them because you were
sorry that you went on down on Lake
street and waited there until Harry
brought the dead woman to you in the
buggy? A. No, I told them I went ahead
and took the street car—that I went ahead
and stopped at the street car track; that is
the way I told them.
Q. Did you tell them in the first story
that you went down on the Kenwood boul-
evard? A. I don’t remember that I did tell
them that.
Q. Well, stop and think. A. I did not
tell the truth; I don’t remember whether I
said that or not. I think I said I took the
car at the Ozark flats and went down to
the place where he told me he would meet
me.
Q. You did not tell Mayor Eustis the
first time that you went down the Ken-
wood boulevard at all? A. No. I don’t
think I did—I did not say I didn’t, but I
don’t remember at all.
Q. Well, a moment ago you thought you
did tell them the same thing both times?
A. Well, that is true, when I speak of
going down to the buggy, that is why I
remember so well. The first story I told
was a lie, and I don’t remember such
things.
Q. Well, a moment ago you were telling
the truth, and you told me you told them
the first time? A. The truth is, if I
should tell it again just as I have explained
in my statement, that he and I went down
to Renwood boulevard and he crossed the
street and went to the buggy and I
crossed afterwards and went to the buggy,
and that was the agreement.
Q. Now, when you first told this story
to Mayor Eustis and these other men,
when you made this statement, did you
tell them which way Harry came with the
body to you; whether he came down Lake
street, or came out from the Lake of the
Isles from Kenwood boulevard 2 A.
pointed to them up on Lake street when I
got to the street car track.
Q. Where did you tell them Harry came
from with the dead body? A. I told them
he came from that road.
Q. Well, that is the road where you had
come from ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. A different direction from which you
had got there? A. No, sir; that is the
same road. No other road there except
what I showed him.
Q. Didn't you state in your first state-




78 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
ment that he brought the body to you from
a different direction from which you had
come to that point? A. No, I don’t think
I did. I pointed back to the same road
where I said he shot her, and I stood eight
or 10 feet from the street car—that is what
I told them.
Q. Now, I want to leave that and take
your mind over to another place, so you
won't get confused; I have no desire to
confuse you at all. Now, I want to return
to the time after you had made your first
statement, and after you had not been
brought out of your cell inside that fence,
the railing, when the chief of police and
Mr. Hall was there, and all these men.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it was told or understood at that
time that Harry was at the theater? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And when you say you made it up,
you used that word, all of this was done
before? A. We didn’t make nothing up at
all, only of course they didn’t know it at
all; I was the only one that knew it, they
didn't make nothing up.
Q. Well, they told you—first that Harry
was at the theater, and that the story was
not true? A. No, they did not tell me that
Harry was at the theater. All that I said
then was that I told them the truth and I
told them the truth about it. and I can
start in again, if it is necessary.
Q. What time did you tell them you left
the Ozark? A. About half-past 7.
Q. Well, how long did you tell them it
took to reach the Kenwood boulevard 2 A.
Well, with what I waited and the time it
took to walk up there I don’t remember;
I think I told them, as far as I remember
now, it would take eight or nine or ten
minutes.
Q. Well, was that the truth? A. Yes, sir,
as far as I remember the time.
Q. Is that the truth now? A. I had no
time, but that is what I think.
Q. Well, is it true that you left the Ozark
at half past 7 and got down there 20 min-
utes of 82 A. Yes, sir.
Q How did you know it was half past 7
when you left the Ozark? A. Because I
knew it. Because I know the elevator man
changes at that time.
. Now, what did you tell them—the
chief of police and Mr. Hall—at that time
what took place at the Kenwood boule-
vard 2 A. What was said after I got to the
buggy?
Q. What did you tell them was said? A.
I told then that he went to her and he
said that this man was going to take her
out tonight because he was one of the
gang, and that he would meet us out there
with the two-horse rig and I should ex-
change with him; he would take her rig
and take her back and I would take his
rig. That is what I told them. I did not
say where she came from or anything of
that kind.
Q. Did you tell them you did not know
whether she came from Kenwood boulevard
or from Hennepin’? A. Yes, sir, because
when I saw the buggy it was standing still.
Q. Did you tell them who got to the
buggy first? A. Yes, sir, Harry Hayward.
Q. And who got to the buggy second? A.
I did.
Q. Did you tell them you both came up
on the same side of the buggy or differ-
ent sides? A. I told them he went around
on the left side of the buggy and I came
close to the right side. I told them the
horse was facing west. I told them I got
in on the right side. I told them I got in
on the right side. I told them I turned
around and I drove up Hennepin boulevard
to Lake street and went around and kept
on straight ahead all the time. -
Q. Did you ever tell them you drove down
on Kenwood boulevard? A. No, sir.
Q. Your story has always been that you
drove out Hennepinº A. Yes, sir. I drove
out Hennepin and down Lake street.
Q. Now, what time did you tell them
that it took you to have that conversation
with her at the buggy? A. I believe I told
them, as far as I could think it over now,
that it took three or four mintes. It took
about three or four minutes.
Q. What did you tell them about who
left the place first, Harry or the buggy,
after you got in? A. I left the place first
with the buggy.
Q. What did you tell them about where
he was or about what he was doing when
you left? A. Well, he was talking to her
and he told her just what I have stated,
and he said we should keep our heads in-
side of the buggy and go quick, and not to
Show our heads either.
Q. What did you tell them was the pace
or the gait of your driving from there to
Lake street, how fast or how slow did you
drive? A: I told them. I drove on a fast
trot away down until I came to that street
car track, then I walked the horse slow.
Q. Were you not taken upstairs the next
morning and did you not make a statement
again? A. l. never made but two state-
ments?
Q. Didn't you make a statement at all
after you made the one in the chief of
police's office? A. No, sir.
The one you have just testified to
was the last one you made? A. Yes, sir.
I did not make but the two statements.
Q. Well, did you make the second state-
ment a second time, how is that, Mr. Blixt?
A. The second time I made my second
Statement. I never made but two state-
ments and that was the second time I
made it, that is all.
Q. Now, I want to talk to you about
just what the facts were, just what you
testify to now, what the facts were oc-
curring that night. Were you to meet
Harry Hayward on the other side of the
lake? A. That was thagreement. Shall
I explain it just as it was 2
Q. Certainly. A. Well,
your name.
Q. My name is Mr. Erwin. A. Well, Mr.
Erwin, Harry was not to go there at all,
but what he said was this, that after I got
around there he would meet me with two
horses, with a team.
Q. He told that to you and Miss Ging?
A. Yes, sir, in her presence.
Q. He would not overtake you, but meet
you? A. Yes sir, to meet me.
Q. Then, Miss Ging thought that his
words implied that he was going to meet
you on the other side of the lake with a
two horse rig and meet you? A. Yes, sir,
she thought that.
Q. Now, I understand you to say she was
constantly looking back? A. No, I never
said that; she looked forwards to look out;
she would have to bend down like this to
look back.
Q. How many times was she looking
out? A. I don't know.
I don’t know




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 79
Q. You said you could have shot her 10
times? A. Yes, sir; I could.
Q. Then she must have been looking out
that many times? A. Yes, sir.
Q. when did she commence to look out?
A when I got up to the ice house she
commeneed to ask me what Harry was
after. She said is he buying green goods?
I said, I don't know.
Q. Well, did she grow nervous? A. I
could not state whether she was nervous
or not; she didn't speak to me any more,
but she kept looking out every little while.
She looked out to see him, that is what she
did it for. She was on the left hand side
and she might have looked around to see
if anybody was coming by-that is an idea
of mine.
Q. This idea of looking out was not got-
ten up by you to explain that shot in the
back of her head? A. No, sir.
Q: What? A. It was gotten up by Harry
Hayward. He said he inquired of the doc-
tor just the best place to shoot a person to
kill him—that is true, there is no mistake
about that.
Q. Can you give any other explanation
why this woman kept looking out the sides
of the buggy if she expected to meet Harry
Hayward coming down the road with a
double team? A. I can’t give any more
explanation than that she did keep looking
out the side.
Q. Now, you say as a matter of fact that
you shot that woman about a mile beyond
where you left her body? A. Yes, sir,
from a mile to three-quarters of a mile,
anywhere's near that.
Q. Don’t you know that you shot her
very near here—that the shot was fired
near where the body was? A. No, it was
not, as true as I say.
Q. When you shot her, how near did you
have the revolver to her head? A. Well,
as near as I can explain it, she was looking
out, and I raised my gun and fired a shot
and it was mere luck that it hit her where
I did; but the first thing she did after I
fired the shot she throwed herself back.
Q. Now, you come down here and put my
head out as far as hers was 2 A. No, I
will not; you can bean out.
Q. Well, I can lean out and you cam tell
me when to stop. (Counsel here assumed
the position of the woman in the buggy
at the time she was shot.) A. That is the
Way.
Q. You sat by her like this? A. Yes, sir,
and I raised my hand like this and fired.
I never saw her; it just happened that I
hit her as I did.
Q. Now show me how you raised your
hand; I was not looking at you before.
A. I raised my hand like this (indicating).
Q. Now, how far was the end of your
revolver from her head 2 A. I don’t think it
was any nearer than a foot from her.
Q. Well, did you have the lines in your
hands? A. I had the lines in my left
hand.
Q. And the revolver in your right hand?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And she noticed long before that you
had a revolver? A. Yes, she had noticed
all the way coming down from the street
car track that I had a revolver in the seat
just like this (indicating).
Q. You had it laid down in the seat? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then you didn’t have it in your hand?
A. No, sir.
Q. When did you first take it in your
hand before you shot her? A. I took it
in my hºnd a good many times before, but
I could hot do it, and I was thinking all
the time how I could shoot her, that is
what kept me going so far.
Q. Well, what was the result when you
fired the revolver? A. Well, I told you she
dropped back like that, and she never
moved.
Q. Well, was there any flash to the re-
volver, any light? A. No, there was no
light that I saw. It is true that I am tell-
ing that just as it was, that I just hap-
pened to hit her exactly at that place;
that is just as true as I am sitting here,
but I never looked that way. It is just as
true as I am sitting here before God in
heaven. I am not lying one word. It just
happened that way.
Q. Don’t you know that the revolver
was held up against her head, and the hair
was burned off? A. I did not know that
anything was burned, because I did not
look at her.
Q. And you say it was a foot from the
head and you did not aim it? A. I did not
aim it with my eyes, no, sir, I didn’t.
Q. And you did not put it up against her
head? A. No, sir, it was not that close.
Q. Did you look in front of you or back
before you fired? A. I turned my head in
that way. (Indicating.)
Q. Were you looking in front? A. Yes,
Sir.
Q. And you did not look at her? A.
No, sir. It is a fact, whether you believe
it or not, that it just happened that I hit
her the way I did—just luck.
Q. Well, now, is that true? A. That is
true, so help me God, sure.
. It is as true as anything else you
have stated before? A. Just as true. What
I say is true, and I hope it will—
Q. Now, then, this buggy has been de-
scribed with the bows going well forward:
A. Yes, sir, that may be.
Q. Now, to look at a person, you would
have to move forward on the side? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did she do that, move forward on the
seat? A. No, sir, she bent down and
looked out, but she did not move out. She
sat right still.
Q. Well, her head was out beyond the
bow? A. Yes, beyond the bow; her head
was not on the outside of the bow, as I can
remember.
Q. And you say the moment she was
shot that she straightened up that way?
A. Yes, sir, she threw herself right against
the back of the top, and after that she kept
herself that way; she never moved.
Q. Did she say anything after she was
shot? A. No, sir, she didn't move either.
Q. Now, you had disengaged your feet
from the buffalo robe? A. I gave her the
robe as far as we came, to the street car
track.
Q. And it was wrapped around her? A.
No, it was not wrapped around her, but it
was over her lap.
Q. It was not over you? A. No, sir. I
don’t know whether she had her feet on it
or not. No, sir, it was not under her feet,
because when I pulled it from under her
there was no weight on it. I pulled up the
robe because I was afraid, and I held the







30 - OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
robe against her head like that until I let
her out. -
Q. And you drove with the right hand
all the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do with the revolver?
A. As soon as I had shot her I put it in
my coat pocket.
Q. And you picked up the robe with that
hand? A. With the left hand, and held it
up against her head.
Q. How many hands did you use in
turning around 2 A. I didn’t use but one
hand, my right hand, at all times.
And after you had turned around,
you drove back a mile or three-quarters of
a mile? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had she changed positions at all?
A. No, sir; I kept watching so she was
not coming down, and I kept the horse go-
ing just as slow as I could, and I had
more trouble than I can explain to keep
on the road; sometimes I was in the road
and sometimes I Was not.
Q. Now, you kept the robe all the time
up there? A. Yes, sir; all the time. As
soon as I felt it was coming down, I
would shove it up again.
Q. And her arms were on her lap? A.
Right on her lap.
Q. And they laid there until you put
her out of the wagon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when you came to put her out
of the wagon did you get out yourself? A.
No, sir; I never was out of the buggy.
Q. And when you got her out, how did
you get her out? A. I was getting too
close to town, so I took hold of her, and I
held her away from me; I thought she was
bloody; and just as soon as her feet let go
from the buggy, I kept pushing her, and
she fell right over on the right wheel.
She might have had her legs between the
two wheels. She slipped down with a
quick motion. The body fell over the front
wheel. She fell hard. The buggy ran over
her when I started up.
Q. Now, when you put her out, did you
still keep the buffalo robe up against her?
A. Yes, sir; and that went with her.
Q. Did you, after she went out of the
buggy, strike the horse with the whip?
A. No, the horse got a little bit scared
and started off on a run. The horse ran
until we crossed the street car tracks; then
it went to trotting again.
Q. Did you turn out for anybody? A.
Yes, sir; the horse turned out himself;
there was a man coming off the street car
there, and he was coming down this way;
and the horse was running, and so he
turned off for him, or I steered him out;
I don’t remember how it was; anyway the
horse turned out, and I went out on the
right side of the man.
Q. You sat in the middle of the seat
after she got out? A. No; I kept my seat
just the way I was all the time.
Q. Which side did you get out when you
left the body on Lake street? A. I got off
on the right side.
Q. What did you do with the lines? A.
I let the lines lay on the dash.
Q. Did you ever discover any blood on
your clothes? A. No, I did not; and I did
not look for any blood either.
Q. Was there any upon the seat of your
paintaloons? A. No, I didn't search the
buggy for blood, and I never looked for
--
Q. Well, did you ever discover any blood
on your pants? A. No, I didn't.
Q: Did you feel any blood? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you feel the dampness of blood
about you? A. No, sir; I didn't.
Q. You got none on your hands? A. Not
as I know of. I might have had a little
blood, I must admit that, but not to my
knowledge, because my hands are not now
the way they were then, because they were
black and greasy at all times, so if I had
had a little blood on my hands it would not
have shown; I could not have had much,
because I would have known it.
Q. Was there a weight in the buggy? A.
I did not know that. There might have
been, but I paid no particular attention to
been, but I paid no attention to it.
(The court here took a recess until 10
o'clock Wednesday morning, Feb. 6, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. G.
Claus A. Blixt.
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Have you a memorandum book over
in the jail? A. I have two small ones.
Q. I thought you had something to load
up with. When did you get these memoran-
dum books? A. They are not really mem-
orandum books. They are only the outside;
there is no paper in them.
Q. I notice you have patched your story
from the start to suit the public clamor,
and I am going to take you through.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as improper.
Mr. Erwin–I want to notify him.
The Court—You need not notify him. Ask
him questions, and cast no reflection on the
character of the Witness.
Mr. Erwin–Shall I notify him what I
want to show by him?
The Court—Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–I want to show by your testi-
mony and by your stories that you have
constantly changed your story and added
to it from the beginning until now; each
time you have told it you have changed it;
and I want you to explain to the jury as
you go along why you did it. A. I will do
SO.
Mr. Erwin–I demand that the statements
be furnished to me that I requested last
night.
Mr. Hall–We have no objections at all.
(Mr. Hall here handed Mr. Erwin the state-
ments.)
Mr. Erwin–Now what is your statement
now about the time that the whisky was
brought to you by Harry Hayward, as you
said? A. My statement now is just the same
as always.
Q. What is it? A. Just as I told.
Q. What is it—tell it again? A. Shall I
tell in regard to the whisky?
Q. Tell what time it was that he brought
the whisky to you. A. I want to get per-
mission to say a few words.
Q. No, you cannot; you will have to
come down to business—what time? A. I.
want to say just a few words.
Q. You cannot say any words.
say it afterwards.
Mr. Nye. He can explain.
A. I want to explain why.
Q: What do you want to explain about?
A. He claims I should explain about that
whisky, what time. My first statement
when I gave it in, the circumstances and
the way I was when I gave my first state-
You can



OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 81
- -
ment, I was not able to correct it—that is
11.
*… Erwin. He already notices that there
is a change. A. The principle in that
statement is right, but the correct time or
anything of that kind, when I was taken
up to make my statement, I did not have
any senses, and was not well, nor in any
circumstances to give that statement.
Q. You had not made your peace with
God? A. There is no laughing to be done
with that; I am talking the truth.
Mr. Erwin. See this special pleader for
his neck. -
The Witness. Don't laugh in my face.
Q. I ask you what time? A. My time,
after I begin to think this matter over-
Q: What time is it now? A. I think it
was between 6 and 7. There can be no
mistake.
Q. When you made your second state-
ment did you state as follows? At your
second statement, get it in your mind—it is
not the first statement, but the second
statement, the time when you say your
conscience sent you to make a statement?
A. I say, when I made my second state-
ment–
Q. Was this asked you? A. “State what
time he came in after it was done?”
Q. No, before it was done? A. He came
in, I think it was about 5 o'clock in the
afternoon, and had this whisky with him
then; and he told me—that is, I told him,
that I did not want to do it, but he said
“This is good,” and he says, “I should take
it, you should take,” he says, and he had
a bottle, and took and put it in front of
me and said I should drink it, and I drink-
ed it. Then he said he made up the plan
that I should go with him only a block or
two apart, and then when we did come to
the place where he told me to go—I told
you where it was—he said then I should go
to the buggy, and then he told me what he
should tell her; he should tell her that I
should take that rig and go out to where
I told you, anywheres around on the west
side of Lake Calhoun, and there I will
meet you, and he said to her, and then we
will change horses; I have two horses and
I will change, and he will take the rig and
I will take you home. The question was
then asked: “Now you have omitted to
state when this was that he told you—did
you not then answer, “At half past 5, said
he would do this—this was the plan that
he put out at half past 5–that is what he
said when he came back.’ ”
Q. I know, but now after he came in at
half past five or gave you whisky, was it
half past seven or half past five? A. No,
it was about five o’clock, I think.
Q. Did you so state? A. If I said so, it
must be so.
Q. Did you say so? A. Now, how do you
account for the change of time between
that second statement and after your con-
science had come back and your state-
ment now—that is what I want you to ex-
plain. A. When I made my second state-
than it was in the first, because it was not
over a day between, I was not in my senses
and was not well, and I did not know
about anything; but as I remember, that is
true, and further more I remember after-
wards, that is true; because as soon as
my memory canne back, and as soon as
I got better I remembered more and more
about what he had told me,
Q. That is what I want to show, you
kept remembering more and more? A. Yes,
Sir.
Q. You do yet? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Whenever anybody tells you any-
thing you remember it? A. No, sir, I do
not admit that anybody tells me anything
before I remember it. I say to this court
and this jury that this could not be re-
membered in the circumstances anyway
that I was at that time. Think of this—
my circumstances at that time, that any-
body could not remember any plainer
than I did.
Q. I ask you now whether it was before
or after dark that he came in with the
whisky 2 A. It was dark.
Q. Now, yesterday morning in answer
to Mr. Nye, who asked you this question:
“Now, when did you next see him?”—that
was Harry—“after Monday morning,” you
answered “The next that I saw him, if I
remember, was late in the evening?” A.
Yes, sir.
Q. “I know it was dark and he came
down and he had a bottle of whisky?” A.
Yes, sir, that is right. -
Q. What was it that made your mind
remember the whisky in the second state-
ment, the bottle of whisky and your drink-
ing it, what was there that made you re-
member it was not 5 o'clock, as you first
stated it, but it was after dark, as you
now state? A. It was dark, and I never
was thinking about the time at all, because
I was not well.
Q. Your attention was directly called in
the statement to the time as I read you,
wasn’t it A.. I say now that I remember
it must have been about 6 o'clock or a
little after 6.
Q. When you made your second state-
ment your attention was particularly di-
rected to the time, and whether it was
half past 7 or 5, as I read you? A. To my
knowledge after I got my senses and was
thinking this matter over, I say it was
Some few minutes after 6 when he came.
Any one that was in my condition at that
time would afterwards, when he got well,
would know, would remember it better
than he did then. That is all the ex-
planation I have got.
Q. Wasn't it because you were informed
that at 5 o'clock Harry Hayward was with
another man down town, a man named
Waterman, and that it would contradict,
and show you to be a falsifier if you stuck
to it that it was 5 o'clock. A. I say now
before God and heaven and the jury that
this what Mr. Erwin is telling me I have
never been informed by any men, by any
person, but the statement that I have
made and the answer to this question is
from myself.
Q. Now, then, if it is from yourself, ex-
plain to the jury why you have changed.
A.. I have explained it in the condition
and the way I was then, that I could not
recollect or remember it after I came to
my sense and got well and better, and
after that got out of me—I was very sick
and had the diarrhoea and everything, and
did not know anything. After I got well
and got in a little better shape I remem-
bered it plainly, and do today.
Q. Now, in your first statement—I have
your first statement here for the first time
this morning—in your first statement you


82 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
-
said nothing about a bottle of whisky? A.
It may be.
Q. How can that be? A. Just simply I
don’t remember it.
Q. Now, when your conscience smote
you and you had perceived the horror of
your act, in accordance with your theory,
you sent for Mayor Eustis? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He took you out over the ground?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The ride over the ground refreshed
your mind by the physical evidences there
of everything that occurred? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you came back fresh from that
with a refreshed memory? A. Yes, sir.
And made a statement as to what
was done, and never said a word about
the whisky? A. No; I did not remember
it at that time. I remembered it the Sec-
ond statement, I guess.
Q. Between the first and second state-
ment were you threatened by anybody?
A. No, sir; I was not threatened by any
man. No revolver was drawn on me and
no knife was drawn on me. I did not
make my second statement at the point of
a knife.
Q. My information, then, is incorrect.
Did you remember that you had not made
a statement about the whisky when you
came to make the second statement? A.
When I made my second statement I did
not make it in full then, because I did not
remember.
Q. In your first statement you laid the
killing of this woman to Harry Hayward?
A. Yes, sir; and I do now.
Q. You, therefore, had no need of a per-
sonal excuse for that killing, did you—you
only deposited the body after it was dead?
A. I want to ask a question of Mr. Erwin
about—
Mr. Erwin. I am not on the Witness
stand.
The Court. Answer that question.
A. I laid the killing on to Hayward—
was that the question ?
Mr. Erwin. When you laid the killing on
to Mr. Hayward, you had no need of a
personal excuse, as if you had done the
killing? A. When I said I went and took
her after she was dead?
Q. Yes, sir, there was no need of any
excuse so far as killing was concerned
when you made that first statement? A.
According to that first statement I made,
that he did the killing and I was taking
her away, I want to explain that.
Q. When you came to make your second
statement you admitted yourself you killed
her then, there was need of the personal
excuse? A. It is true that I shot her.
Q. When you came to admit that you
shot her it was necessary for you to have
some justification or excuse for that act?
A. I was not asking any excuse; I just
simply told the truth.
Q. You invented the whisky story for
justification, wanting to put it off on the
same main that you wanted to put it off on
in the first statement? A- I deny it.
Q. Point to me where before your second
attempt you ever mentioned the whisky
incident.
Mr. Nye-He did not say he did mention
it before.
Mr. Erwin–It was an invention for that
occasion? A. It is no invention; it is true.
Q. Now, at what time was it—I ask you
now for your story now—what time do you
say that Harry Hayward gave you a re-
volver and cartridges? A. I say that was
between 6 and 7; more close to 7 than it
Was to 6.
Q. In your second statement I will ask
you, did you state that it was about 6
o'clock? A. Yes. I stated between 6 and
7 that he came down.
Q. You stated as I have read to you, “I
think it was about 6 o'clock or some-
thing?” A. Yes, sir, but a man can’t just
exactly tell to the minute when he did not
look at a watch.
Q. Why did you change from 6 o'clock
to between 6 and 7 and nearer 72 A. I.
did not change, that is all, because he did
not give me this weapon until he had all
this talk, until it was all through, this talk.
Q. What reason do you give for chang-
ing the hour there, a most important thing?
A. I don’t understand that there is any
change.
Q. Now, Mr. Blixt, in your first state-
ment you never stated anything about
Harry giving you a revolver, did you?
A.. I don’t know.
Q. When you came to make the second
statement, and you admitted the killing.
then in order to excuse yourself, you must
get a revolver from Harry in order to
throw it on to Harry? A. I got the re-
volver from Harry. -
Q. Isn’t it perfectly plain how you come
to make that statement in your second
Statement? A. I think it is plain enough.
Q. You stated in your second statement
that you got this revolver from Harry and
these cartridges from Harry? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Because you changed front from the
story that Harry killed this woman to the
story that you killed the woman, and you
wanted to connect Harry with it? A. Is
this understood between Mr. Erwin and not
right, this question that you asked me now
—I want to know that.
Q. I understand Iny end of it. A.Can't
explain mine?
Q. Yes, sir. A. I want to ask Mr. Er-
win if you think yeſterday from the ques-
tion you gave me the same question, that
I laid this plan when I said that I was to
go ahead and take charge of the body af-
ter it was killed. Did you understand that
was my lie? Getting up my own plan, did
you understand that, Mr. Irwin; did you
understand it was my plan and that I lied
when I said that I had to take charge of
this body after he killed her—did you un-
derstand it that way?
Mr. Irwin. May it please the court, my
answer will criticise the witness.
The Witness. It is a mistake between
him and me.
The Court. He stated yesterday he had
made up that story as a lie and afterwards
told the truth.
The Witness. No, that is not right,
your honor. I can explain probably better,
so you can understand it.
Mr. Erwin. Do you understand my ques-
tion? I am never going to get through
with this gentleman unless he answers
my questions. I do not want to state what
I thought about his story yesterday. I
certainly cannot answer the question with
any sort of dignity.
The Court. You understood him to say






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 83
that this story he told yesterday had no
truth in it?
The Witness. I want to explain that my-
self if I can.
Mr. Erwin. I want you to answer my
question. I understand what you are try-
ing to do now. You are trying to say
now that your first story was not true?
A. No, I ain't trying to say that.
Q. Or your second story was not true?
A. No, nor that. I say it is true what I
have said, both in the first and second,
except what I did not think of.
Q., True in principle, as you used the
word awhile ago, but false in details? A.
No, sir; not false in any details.
Mr. Erwin. Will the stenographer read
the question?
(The stenographer then read the two fol-
lowing questions:) “Q. You stated in your
second statement that you got this re-
volver from Harry and these cartridges
from Harry? A. Yes; sir. A. Because
you changed front from the story that
Harry killed this woman to the story that
you killed the woman, and you wanted to
connect Harry with it?”
Mr. Erwin. Isn’t that so; that you
wanted to connect him with it; the second
story? A. He had to be connected when
he was the man that done it.
Q. He had to be connected with it if
you wanted to throw the blame off of
yourself? A. It was not my plan in mak-
ing that up; it was his own plan. I did
not do it.
Q. You understand me perfectly. When
your first story was told, you said that he
killed the woman, and brought her dead
body to you? A. Yes, sir. I was just
going to say that that was not my plan
in saying so, but I did not say that be-
cause I was scared then, and I would tell
that it was not my plan.
Q. Here is another invention of a re-
volver and cartridges in order to connect
Harry Hayward with your killing and
murdering Miss Ging. Why didn't you tell
it in the first statement if it was not an
invention? A. Because I was nervous,
scared and thought I would tell this.
Q. Now, what time I am going to ask
you now that you left the Ozark on the
night of the murder to go down to kill
this woman? A. So far as my knowl-
edge I thought it was about half past 7,
but I could not tell for certain, Swear to
a certainty whether it was a minute or five
minutes off. As near as I can remember, it
was half past 7.
Q. Now, when you made your first state-
ment, did you state: “I think it was a
quarter of 7 when I left the basement, and
probably it was a minute later when I left
the hall?” Did you so state in you first
statement? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. A quarter to 72 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You left the basement, and a minute
or two later you left the hall? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Now, in your second statement did
you state as follows: “I left there 15
minutes to 7?” Did you so state? A. I
think probably I did.
Q. Now you change your time three-
quarters of an hour? A. Well, because
when I told that I stated the time just the
best I could think of, but when I come to
think it over, I know on account of my
brother-in-law—that is the only way I
knowed the time, because I did not know
the certain or exact time, but simply said
so because I thought so at the time, but
according to my brother-in-law when he
first came there I remember it was half
past 7, because I know he came around at
that time.
Q. You know Harry Hayward could con-
tradict you unless you made it at that
time, don’t you? A. No, sir, I never
thought at all of Harry, what he could or
could not, anything of it. Simply made up
the time because I knew at what time—
whe-
Q. When did you say your brother-
in-law came? A. I saw him down there
in the basement; he just came there at that
time.
Q. Now, you stated in the first state-
ment your memory was fresh; it was Dec.
9, wasn't it, the first statement? A. Yes,
it may be.
Q. The next one you made Dec. 11, two
days later? A. Yes, that is right.
You have been over the ground and
your mind was fresh on that matter? A.
No, sir, my mind was not fresh; I was all
broken up entirely, and had been five or
six weeks before I was arrested, too.
Q. What cause do you assign; do you
say that simply thinking about your broth-
er-in-law caused you to change the time
from a quarter to 7 to half past 7? A. I.
know he came down there at that time,
and I know he just came there when I
left.
Q. Now, where was it in the Ozark that
you had a talk with Harry, and talked
with Harry about killing Miss Ging? A.
That was between, in the first apartment
where we came from the elevator, between
the court wall and the hot water boiler, in
the basement.
Q. After the talk down stairs did Harry
go away and leave you? A. After the
talk was there, down there, he left me for
a little while. I know I could not tell the
certain right time, because I don’t remem-
ber; probably 15 or 20 minutes. I don’t
know whether that would be the right
time. Then he came along again into the
basement, and told me to get my clothes
on and come on. That is true.
Q. Now, in your second statement, did
you state that he said in the hall: “Hurry
up, now, and come on, and I will be right
after.” Why did you put in your second
statement that conversation up in the hall
at his flat instead of down in the basement
15 minutes after his first talk with you?
Did you not change the place of conversa-
tion so that you could get it down where
your wife could corroborate it? A. No,
sir; I did not state to my wife about that.
Q. How come you now to change the
place of that location to down in the base-
ment? A. I never changed it.
Q. Did you not just now tell this jury
before I asked you about this second state-
ment that the conversation was down in
the basement? A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you not in the second statement
say that it was up in the hall opposite the
fiat, at the door, that you had this con-
versation about hurrying up to put your
clothes on 2 A. Yes, sir, he said it down
in the basement, too, that I should get my
clothes on and hurry up, and afterwards I





84 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
went up in the hall and I met him in his
own flat.
Q. He said it twice? A. Yes, he said,
“Hurry up and get your clothes on and
come on.” That is What he said.
Q. Now, when you gave the conversa-
tion before the jury, you gave a conversa-
tion down in the basement in which you
say, “Hurry up and put on your coat,” and
you changed it materially, do you not? A.
No, sir, I never changed it.
Q. And to get out of it when you are
caught you say you had it in both. A. I
don’t understand you.
Q. And you don’t understand when it is
shown to you? A. These words had to be
used as long as I had to see him before I
left.
Q. Who told you you had to see him be-
fore you left? A. He told me I should see
him before I left.
Q. Who told you it was necessary to see
him before you left, if it was necessary to
made a coherent story? A. Harry told me.
Q. I want you to state now where you
went down Hennepin avenue? A. I went
down to the corner of Hennepin and Ken-
wood boulevard. I know I went there; he
told me to go there. He was right after
me. Probably as must as two blocks, pret-
ty nearly two blocks. I never knew where
Kenwood boulevard was. He said, “Ken-
wood boulevard runs right across Hen-
nepin.” He said that I should stop there
on that corner until he came along; he said
I should go to the corner of Hennepin
and Kenwood boulevard. I went just where
he told me to go. I did not go across the
Kenwood boulevard. I went down Hennepin
on the right hand side. I went down that
side about two blocks, and I stopped to see
when he came out to the corner of Ken-
Wood boulevard.
Q. Where is it; point it out on this map?
A. I don’t know anything about that map
—I can’t point it out.
Q. What is the reason; do you know
where you went? " A. I told you I did not
understand that map at all.
Q. How did you know when you came to
Kenwood? A. Only what he told me; he
told me it was a vacant lot. He said:
“When you get to a vacant lot stop.”
Q. Now, you knew it was Kenwood boule-
vard by a vacant lot? A. Yes, he told me.
Q. Now, then, you did not know the
street Kenwood boulevard, in your second
statement? A. I never been down there
before; I never been down to that street
at all.
Q. In your second statement you had to
ask what the name of the street was 2 A.
No, I don’t think I did.
Q. You did not know on the map? A.
No, I don’t understand the map.
Q. And you did not know it by name on
your second statement? A. Yes, sir, I
knew it from what he told me, that is all.
Q. Well, you could not give it to Mayor
Eustis; you had to ask the mayor what
the name of the street was? A. Well, I
might have forgotten the name.
Q. When you got down to that street,
down to the corner, which you now call
Kenwrood boulevard, what did you do? A.
I stayed there until he came along, and
when I saw him coming along he walked
across the vacant lot there and went down
Kenwood boulevard, and after he went
down about a block away from me I fol-
lowed him up; that is what he told me.
Q. What did you say about his coughing
yesterday? A. Well, when he got on the
sidewalk, pretty nearly the sidewalk on
Kenwood boulevard, he looked at me and
he hawked and coughed and spit the way
he said he would do. He had cut across
the vacant lot from Hennepin to Kenwood
boulevard, on the right hand side. I stood
on the corner.
Q. Show us how he coughed? A. No,
he can show it himself.
Mr. Nye-Show him how.
Q. How did he cough? A. Well. I can’t
imitate everybody in coughing.
Q. Well, he coughed and spit, and
moved his head, shook his head for you to
come? A. He turned his head like that.
Q. Now, when you gave your second
statement, you said “He whistled at me.”
A. Well, I don’t know as he whistled; I
don’t remember that he whistled. I know
he coughed and threw his head up for me
to come.
Q. Well, what made you change it from
whistling to coughing? A. Well, I know
he called my attention to come. I know he
hawked and spit and threw his head for
me to come.
Q. Why did you not say he hawked and
coughed and threw his head to motion you
to come, in your second statement, instead
of saying he whistled for you to come? A.
Just simply this, I know he motioned to
me one way or the other.
Q. Are you sure you have sºot changed
your testimony so some man can be brought
forward to corroborate you? A. I paid no
attention to that. I tell the truth. I have
not changed. I simply remember more and
more. He might have whistled a little bit,
but I don’t remember now. I know one
thing, that he told me I must be awful
quiet.
Q. Now, what did you do when he
coughed and hawked and spit and moved
his head for you to come? A. Then I
came forward. I followed him up. On
Kenwood boulevard. On the right hand
side. I think it is two blocks or two
blocks and a half from Hennepin. When I
saw him cut across the street, then I cut
across the street. He was up to the buggy
before I started across.
Q. Is that the buggy Miss Ging was inº
A. Yes, sir; the buggy was facing west.
Q. Now, let me show you what you said
on your second statement: “Then he cut
across that vacant lot, there is a vacant
lot there, and he whistled to me and I
followed the sidewalk down, and when he
cut across there, there is another street
that comes in there, then he run across
and she came; I don’t know where she
came from, but he whistled at her and
stopped her, and she drove to one side of
the street, to the left hand side, close to
the Lowry block there.” A. Well, accord-
ing to that statement there that is a mis-
take. I never said he whistled for her.
That is a mistake in the writing. To my
memory the buggy stood there, yes, sir,
when I saw it.
Q. Did you not state to Mayor Eustis
that you did not know where she came
from ? A. Yes, sir. I stated I did not
know where she came from and I don’t,
but I did not say he whistled for her.






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 85
Q. Well, which is true now—which is
your statement now, that he whistled for
her and stopped her, and she drove to one
side of the street, or that she was standing
at the side of the street with her buggy
facing the west and he was standing at
the buggy when you first noticed it? A.
when I first noticed it, he was standing
at the buggy and the buggy was standing
still. -
Q. Now, after you got up near the buggy
what did he say to her in your presence:
or what did he say to you? A. He said
to her that I was one of the gang, that he
wanted me to take her out.
Q. Now, in the first statement you made
you didn't tell anything about your going
down Hennepin avenue to Exenwood boule-
vard? A. No, sir.
Q. You said you went out and took a car
and went to Lake street? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You did not say anything in your first
statement about meeting the woman or
meeting him or anything else down at
Kenwood boulevard? A. No, sir.
Q. You kept that a secret? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you did not say anything about
your conversation down there? A. No, sir.
Q. Well, why did you conceal in your
first statement these remarkable and sug-
gestive words, “ He is one of the gang?”
What did you conceal that for in your
second statement, or rather wºhat did you
invent it for in your present statement?
A. That is no invention, Mr. Erwin, it is
ule.
". Why didn't you state that in your
second statement? A. I can tell you why.
Q. wasn't it for the purpose to lend
yourself as a witnees to carry out the
green goods theory of the state? A. She
spoke to me on the road about green goods.
I did not invent no story.
Q: Why did you not say in your second
statement that the excuse he gave to her
to get her to take you into the buggy was
as you say now, “That he is one of the
gang?” A. Because I didn’t seem to re-
member it.
Q. You had not then made your peace
with heaven, and your memory had not
come back? A. Well, I did not remember
it at that time.
Now, why didn't you state to him at
that time that Harry cautioned you to keep
your heads in 2 A. Because I did not re-
member it, I suppose.
Q. Well, now, what is it that has been
dropping in and pricking up your memory
to sustain these theories? A. Because I
have been thinking it over, more and more
every day—I have been remembering more
and more every day.
And you have been prodded, been
coached A. No, sir. I have not.
Q. Was not the question at your second
statement then immediately asked you,
when you said, “That is all,” didn't Mayor
Eustis then ask you and call your attention
sharply to this particular subject, as fol-
lows: “Wasn't there anything said about
other men?” and did you not answer, “No;
that is all?” Was not that your statement
before Mayor Eustis A. I guess so, if it
is there.
Q. Well, if your attention was sharply
called there to those questions and you
said no, why, your present statement is an
invention of that story? A. I don’t know;
it is no invention; it is just what I re-
member.
Q. Now, when you took the mayor down
there, showed them where you waited un-
til Harry came along with the dead woman,
didn’t you tell the mayor that you stood
on a little ground just beyond the track
and waited for Harry to come along? A.
Yes, sir, I did.
Q. And when he came along he had Miss
Ging's dead body? A. Yes, sir, that is
what I said.
Q. Now, where did you tell the mayor
at that time, how far beyond that place did
your hack drive? A. We went way down, if
I am not mistaken, as far as I was with
the buggy before, just as near as I can
judge, something near a mile, where the
big trees are on the side of the road. We
turned around there and came back to
where the body was deposited.
Q. And you showed them where you left
the body? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, you told us yesterday that this
woman was looking out, and you showed
us particularly how she was looking out,
the posture of her head and body with ref-
erence to you, and how you had the re-
volver at your side, and that you raised it
and fired with your hand in this position,
and you looking right ahead, and not look-
ing around at her? A. that is true, yes,
Slr.
Q. Well, now, at the time of the second
statement, did you not say as follows: “She
was looking out with her head and I made
the shot and I never knew how, that I
did not have nerve to bring the revolver
up to shoot, and I never realized how I
ever did get the revolver up, I never could
Come to realize how I ever did have the
strength to do it, and I don’t remember
how long, how much farther I went on?”
A. It is true, every word you say there.
Q. Then you did make the statement you
did not know how you had the strength to
get the revolver up? A. No, I don’t
know today how I got the strength.
Q. But you also said you did not know
how much further you went on? A. Well,
I remember that, because there was a tim-
ber and I turned around.
Q. Yesterday you stated you went on
about 30 rods? A. Yes, sir; we thought it
was about 30 rods.
Q. Then you stated you did not know?
A. I would not have known it if I hadn’t
of got into those big trees.
Q. What made you remember it was
thirty rods yesterday? A. Well, I remem-
bered that a long time now. Right, after
I went out there, when I got into the
woods I knew then I turned around there.
Q. That was before your second state-
ment, because you made your second state-
ment after you returned. Yet did you not
in your second statement say, “And I don’t
remember how long, how much further I
went on, but I went on as I told you then
turned the horse around and came back?”
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I want to get at what caused you to
change your story, what caused you to re-
member? A. My memory was spoiled and
my health was spoiled, and had been be-
fore I got into this.
Q. Well, Dr. Odell and Dr. Nye and
Dr. Hall have cured you? A. No, God has
cured me.
|
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86 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. Don't you think it was a lesser Trin-
ity? A. If I had not thought of him and
he had not helped me, I would not have
been here today.
Q. God loves truth? A. Yes, sir, he
does, that is certain.
Q. And he has no pleasure in a liar? A.
I will say this much. If the truth is not
placed before this court today, then I
would not want to stay here.
Q. You had no motive in concealing these
things when you made this statement that
you did not know how far you went? A.
I stated that in the first statement. .
Q. Yes, sir, and in your second state-
ment you said you did not know how far
you went? A. Well, I remembered it
when I saw the loig tree.
Q. But you made the statement when
you got back and you did not remember it?
A. Well, I was out there twice in a hack.
Q. That was a new thing. Who took you
out the second time? A. Well, I don’t
know. I think it was Mr. Ege.
Q. Your physicians thought you needed
more fresh air? A. Yes, I was out there
twice.
Q. Did they thing your memory was
bad? A. No, they did not say anything
about my memory.
Q. Well, who went with you? A. A dep-
uty and Mr. Ege, and me, and my attor-
ney. I can’t state the time it was. I can't
remember now; it was a long time ago.
Q. Well, how long was it after you se—
cured your attorney? A. It was not very
long after. It was in the day time. We
went down over the same road. We drove
down to Kenwood boulevard and up
around where we went before.
Q. Were you handcuffed 2 A. No, I was
not.
Q. You got out of the hack and showed
them the ground there? A. Yes, sir, I
showed them where the buggy was, and
where he walked across as I remembered
it. Then We went over the road where I
turned the buggy. Then we went out Hen-
nepin boulevard to Lake street, and from
there around to Lake Calhoun and on
Lake street to where I turned the buggy
before.
Q. Well, where was that? A. That was
the same road going out to where I got
down in the timber there where she was
found.
Q. You got out there? A. Yes, sir.
Then we came back the same road. I
showed them where the body was found,
but they knew that before.
Q. Then you have had an opportunity
of looking over this ground on two occa-
sions since you committed the murder? A.
Oh, yes.
Q. How did you come to be taken out
there? A. Well, that is their business. I
can’t make any explanation—I can give no
answer why they did it.
Q. Had you been indicted then when
you went out there? A. Yes, sir, I guess
SO.
Q. And after your indictment the sheriff
of the county and your attorney and a
deputy sheriff of the county took you
around and showed you and explained
everything? A. I showed them what I
could about the road. They didn't ask me
no further questions.
Q. Now, did your memory of the dis-
tance that you drove after you shot her,
before you turned around, come back to
you after you had had your second drive?
A. I had made my statement then.
Q. Yes, after you had made a second
statement, after you had the second drive,
did your memory come back to you? A.
My memory came back to me right along,
more and more, every day.
Q. Now, you testified here yesterday that
you went on 30 rods beyond the place you
shot her, and then turned around? A.
Yes, sir, that is right.
Q. Did your memory that you went 30
rods come back to you after the second
drive, because when you made the second
statement you said you did not know how
far you went? A. My memory came back
to me when I made my second statement,
and some afterwards.
Q. Now, your testimony that it was 30
rods is what has come to your memory
since you made your statement? A. It
came to my memory in this way, because
there is a little hill there.
Q. Well, it came to you since you made
your second statement. Now, it seems that
great care has been taken to nurse your
memory? A. No, Mr. Erwin, that is not
so; there is no one said that I should say
anything but the truth. That is so.
Q. Now, how did you get this body out
of the buggy? You showed us yesterday
how you got this body out of the buggy.
Now, tell us again.
Mr. Nye-Well, I submit this is a repeti-
tion.
The Court—Yes. We are not going to try
this case over again; he explained the
whole matter yesterday.
Mr. Erwin–I thought perhaps he had
changed his memory in regard to it, and I
have a right, if he has changed his mem-
ory, to his latest edition.
Q. Do you remember now, I will try and
obviate it. Do you remember now what
you stated to me yesterday of the manner
in which you got the body out? You re-
member all your descriptions? A. I do.
Q. Did you give any such description in
your second statement? A: I don’t remem-
ber now whether I did or not.
Q: Why didn't you state those things in
your second statement? A. That is some-
thing to explain why, but I know why—I
know I was in a condition that I could not
make a full statement; I had good reasons
to say that, because I was very sick, and
I was in very poor condition to make a full
statement.
Q. Then, in your statement until your at-
tention was called to that revolver, you
state that you went down the elevator and
went to bed? A. Yes, sir; that is right.
And when your attention was called
to the revolver you made the remark in the
following words, “What did you do with
your revolver?” A. Oh, yes; that has got
to be explained; I took in into his room.”
Q. Yesterday when you were interro-
gated by the county attorney you did the
same thing. You said you went down stairs
and afterwards you corrected it yourself
and said you went into his room with the
revolver? A. Yes.
Q. You fell into the same mistake yes-
terday? A. Yes, that is all right.
Q. And then corrected it? A. Mr. Er-
win, you need not think there is any mis-
take about that.







OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 87
Q. Now, in your second statement, yes-
terday, you stated to me that Harry had a
gold watch, or rather, you stated to the
jity attorney that Harry had a gold
watch and 50 $1 bills?
Q. Did you ever state before yesterday
that the money was in $1 bills? A. I think
*... you said nothing about $1 bills in
your statement? A. No. -
Q. You said nothing about there. being 50
of them? A. Fifty dollars in $1 bills; that
is what Harry told me.
Now, who has coached your memory
on that? A. Myself; I remember that.
Q. Well, you are a good one: A. No, I
remember the truth, that is all.
Q. And you are the only one? A. Yes,
sir. I was told by Harry himself what the
bills were.
Q. When was it you coached yourself on
that; when did you remember it first?
A. When I made my statement to my at-
torney. I had remembered it a long
while, but when I made my statement to
him I told the truth.
Q. Didn't you invent that story to cor-
roborate the theory that the loan made
by Harry was a fictitious loan.” A. No.
Q. Well, did you change it for any pur-
pose? A. I did not change it at all. I
just told the truth.
Q. Now, you told this jury yesterday that
Harry gave you those things in this box
and told you that you were to solder
the gold watch up. And that he afterwards
came to you and asked you what you had
done with the box, and you told him that
you had hid it up in the attic, in an empty
white lead keg, and he said to you, “You
damn fool, that will be the first place they
will look for it,” and you went and got it,
and he took it and he said he would hide it.
Now, you told the jury that yesterday? A.
That is true.
Q. Now, when you made your second
statement to the mayor, did you not make
it in these words: “He said I want you to
take the tin box and put the watch in
there and solder it together, and after that
I will take it somewhere and put it in the
woods?” A. He took it in his hands. I
didn't look at him whether he put it in his
pocket or whether he had it in his hands
and a roll and a box of cartridges.
Q. Then you were asked, “Have you any
idea where it is?” and you replied: “My
wife had the principal. She told Mr. Hall
what she thought. She looked for it.” A.
That is a mistake. I must interrupt you.
My wife never knew anything about it.
Q. It was a mistake that your wife knew
anything about it? A. That is a mistake.
Q. You never said that your wife had
the principal, that she told Mr. Hall she
looked for it? A. I say my wife never
told Mr. Hall anything about the twatch.
Q. The question was asked you, possibly,
where it might be, and you answered, “Yes,
he told me he was going to put it in the
woods, but whether he did or not I could
not say certain about that; but my wife she
has taken care of his room, you know, and
she knows anything lost in his room, and
she said there was one of the trunks there
with canvas on it that was taken up stairs
In his father's and mother's apartment.
Q. How long ago? A. Didn't you ask
my wife that? I could not say.
Q. It was the other day about the time
it was moved. A. You know my wife
knows all about this—I don’t.
Q. Did he ever say anything to you at
any other time about these three articles
that you have described? A. No; he came
down with them, and he said—
Q. Never mind that. A. No; he said he
wanted them hidden so there would be no
clue to find them, he says.
Q. About what time was it Monday
night you had this talk, when you went
away? A. When he came down with these
things.
Q: What time? A. That was early in
the morning, I think between 8 and 9.
Q. Did you not so state to Mayor Eustis?
A.. I said—
Q. Answer my question, yes or no? A.
No to what?
Q. Did you so state as I have read here?
A. In my second.
Q. Now, how came you to state yester-
day and today that you went and hid
that up in the attic, and that he came
down and had this talk with you, and that
you went up and got it? How came you
to state and invent these things? A. There
was no invention about it.
Q. You are not trying to get a corrobora-
tion A. No, sir, I am only trying to get
the truth told, that is all.
Q. When did you first invent the story
that you went up in the attic and hid these
things, and he told you that would be the
first place they would look for them? A. I.
could not tell you; I remember this a long
time.
Q. Wasn't you trying to get this 50 one-
dollar bills in so your wife or somebody else
could see them? A. No, sir, I was not.
Q. Wasn't you trying to fix it so you
could examine these 50 one-dollar bills? A.
No, sir.
Q. When did your memory first come to
you about your going up and hiding it in
a lead pail?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as repeti-
tion.
The Court—He may state if he remem-
bers.
Q. When did it come to you first—was
that after you talked with your attorney?
A. Yes, sir.
Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock
p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. G.
Claus A. Blixt's cross examination re-
sumed by Mr. Erwin, who called attention
to the Oneida Block meeting, as testified to
by witness on the stand Tuesday, and com-
paring it with second statement.
Q. Why did you change your testimony
from the second statement and make it
that this woman came back again and
went into the other office and was in there
10 minutes with Harry? A. Did I say she
was in 10 minutes?
Q. You say she came back in 10 minutes
and she went in there. Why did you change
your testimony from your statement in
that respect? A. Have I changed it?
Q. Have you not changed it? A. Have
I changed it?
Q. I think you have. A. I don’t think
so-
Q. Your testimony here yesterday was
that she went out of the room and in about




88 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
10 minutes she came back and went into a
room with Harry and was there with him
and then came out and Went down the ele-
vator again. A. That is true.
Q. What made you change your state-
ment? A. I did not change it; only I did
not remember: that is all.
Q. Did you not change your statement
in order to show that she might have
brought money back to Harry? A. No,
sir.
Q. What did you change it for? A. Just
simply because I remembered she came
back.
Q. What caused you to remember it? A.
I remember every day more and more, the
better, after I got over the nervousness,
and when I got better; because when I
give my statement there was lots of things
that I did not remember.
Q. Here you were particularly asked, at
the time your second statement was made,
whether you saw her again that day, and
you said no. A. I saw her come back.
Q. What caused you to remember it?
Mr. Nye-I submit that he has explained
all that a witness can be expected to ex-
plain under the circumstances.
The Court—He can ask whether
was any other eason.
Mr. Erwin–I will ask, what is the reason,
or under what circumstances, how come
you to remember that you had made a mis-
take in that regard, and that the woman
did come back and went in the room, and
was there a few minutes alone with Harry?
A. I think there is more than one person
that don’t remember everything all at once.
I think any man can recollect when he be-
gins to think, when he is going to tell the
truth
Q. You say you did not put this in your
testimony for the purpose of putting the
woman and Harry in the room by them-
selves when she came in? A. I did not say
so.
Q. You did not think of that? A. I did
not say so.
Q. What gave the circumstance signifi-
cance? A. I simply remember it; that is
all, and it is true.
Q. Now you said to me yesterday, that
when you sent for Chief of Police Smith,
you sent for him because your conscience
prompted you to tell the whole truth? A.
Certainly.
Q. And it was your conscience that
moved you to it? A Yes, sir.
Q. Was that the only thing that moved
you? A. Well, I felt that I could not tell
a lie any longer. I wanted to tell the
truth.
Q. You had no selfish reason? A. I
wanted to lay it before God and heaven,
and then go to work and tell truth.
Q. You had no other reason? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you in your right mind when
you made that first statement? A. I was
sorry and weak and sick. I was not in my
right mind, but then I was not crazy.
Q. In answer to the question, “Q. Did
you want to make a clean breast of it?”
did you answer in the following words:
“A. Yes, I wanted to go to the chief and
the mayor; I asked for both the mayor
and the chief; that is what I wanted. I
have done this because I heard that his
own brother was telling the truth, and I
understood that the program was that they
had made me to hang, and I thought to
there
myself, if they want to do that they might
just as well know the truth?” A. I did
not talk about any hanging.
Q. Are those your words? A. No, sir,
not all of them.
Q. Did you not say just as I have read
to you? A. No, sir; I did not talk about
anybody hanging, nor about any hanging.
I deny that I ever said they made me to
hang.
Q. Do you deny using those words? A.
Yes; I did not use those words.
Q. You swear to that positively? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. What words did you use? A. I said
I was going to tell the truth and I wanted
Chief Smith and Mayor Eustis—that is just
what I said. I don’t know that I said any-
thing more.
Q. You never used the words, “I under-
stood, then, that the program was that
they made me to hang?” A. No, sir, I
never used those words.
Q. Now, Mr. Blixt, you used the word
“program?” A. No, sir, I never did use it
in my life.
Q. When you made the first statement,
the program was to have Harry hung,
wasn’t it? A. I don't know anything about
it. I never know anything about it; I did
not say any program who was going to
hang.
Q. You heard before you made this state-
ment that Adry Hayward had told the
truth that you killed that woman? A. No,
sir, I did not. I heard that he had said
something, but what he had said I never
knew.
Q. Did you not use the words: “I have
not done this because I heard that his own
brother was telling the truth?” A. No,
sir, I did not. I just simply said that I
heard Adry had said something about it.
I never knowed what he did say.
Q. You made this statement after you
heard that Adry Hayward was talking
about the case? A. I don’t remember
whether I made the statement before or
after.
Q. Your memory is good now? A. I
remember; anybody in such as this I
should thing would remember it.
Q. Don't you know that you made this
statement, this first statement to the effect
that you were out there and Adry brought
the body there to offset a statement that
you had heard that Adry had made telling
the truth? A. I never said such things,
that Adry brought any body there.
Q. Harry brought the body? A. Yes.
Q. Did you not make this first statement
to the general substance and effect that
Harry had brought the dead woman to
you, to offset what you had heard what
Adry was telling about the truth, that you
killed her? A. I don't understand that
question at all.
(The last question was here read by the
stenographer.)
A. I don't understand it. I had made a
statement and said that Harry brought the
body to me, and I took it, and never men-
tioned Adry's name, or knew anything
about what he said. All I heard about
Adry was that he had said something in
the paper, but I never knew what it was
after I was arrested.
Q. I will try and simplify that ques-
tion. You made the first statement to
the general substance and effect that Harry





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 89
Hayward brought the dead body of that
poor girl to you? A: I did not make it:
deny it. I made the statement, but I
did not lay the plan.
Q: Did you make the statement? A.
Yes, sir, I made the statement.
Q. When you made that statement you
made it because you knew that Adry
was telling the truth, that you killed that
woman? A. No, sir, I did not. I did not
know anything about Adry or what he
had said.
Q. Didn't you make the first statement
that Harry brought the dead woman to
you in order to have a good story against
the story which Adry was telling, that
you killed the woman? A. No, sir; I did
not.
Q. You did not say a word about con-
science in your first statement, did you?
A. They knowed what I was, and in what
condition I Was.
Q. Answer my question. You did not
say a word about conscience in your first
statement? A. I don’t think so.
Q. You did not say a word about peni-
tence, or bad feelings? A. No, sir.
Q. Or repentance, nothing of the kind?
A. No, sir, I don’t think I did.
Q. Was the question then asked you af-
ter you had answered the question—you
called the chief in and told him you wanted
to make a clean breast of it, after you
had answered the question, as to this ques-
tion then you asked: “Q. Then you make
this statement of your own accord; you
asked to have the chief and mayor come
to you and hear your statement,” and did
you answer, “Yes, that is what I want to
make, because that is true. Any one in
the office can prove that. Well, I got to do
that. You see it makes me cry when I
begin to think that they called me a mur-
derer and make me all this trouble, that
the boys turned it onto me?” A. did
not mention no boys.
Q. Did you answer as I have read to
you? A. No, sir, I did not mention no
boys.
Q. Did you answer anything in like sub-
stance or effect? A. I will answer this
again if Mr. Erwin wants me—I just sent
for the chief—
Q. Answer my question? A. I don't
know what to answer, if I cannot go to
work and say as I said.
Q. Don't you know what to answer? A.
No, sir, not if I cannot say as I said.
Mr. Nye-Answer in your own way.
Mr. Erwin–Did you answer anything in
like substance or effect.
The Court—Do you understand the ques-
tion? A. No, I don’t understand.
The Court—If you said anything like or
In effect the same as he read to you last?
A. I will ask Mr. Erwin to read it again.
Mr. Erwin (reads)—“Q. Then you make
this statement of your own accord; you
asked to have the chief and mayor come
to you and hear your statement. A. Yes,
that is what I want to make, because that
it true. Any one in the office can prove
that. Well, I got to do that. You see it
makes me cry when I begin to think that
they call me a murderer and make me all
this trouble, that the boys turned it onto
me.” A. I did not say about the boys that
they turned it onto me—I never said that.
Q: Did you say the rest of it? A. I said
I want to tell the truth and make a state-
ment of how it was done and how it hap-
pened. That is all I said.
Q. Did you say as I have read, “Yes,
that is what I want to make, because that
is true. Any one in the office can prove that.
Well, I got to do that. You see it makes
me cry when I begin to think that they
call me a murderer and make me all this
trouble, that the boys turned it onto me?”
A. There are some words in there that I
have not mentioned.
Q. Did you say that or something like
that? A. In regard to that, but not to say
that they have turned it onto me, but I
said I wanted to make a statement, and
make a true statement.
Q. You did not say, “The boys turned it
onto me?” No, sir; nor nothing of
that kind.
Q. Did you say, “ You see it makes me
cry when I begin to think that they call
me a murderer?” A. I don’t remember
that I did. I may say it would make me
cry, but whether I said when they begin to
call me murderer, or anything like that, I
don’t remember.
Q. On Friday, Dec. 7, in an interview
between you, a conversation between you
and Mr. McMurch and Mr. Levering at the
Ozark flats, did you state in substance,
that on that day in question, the 24th of
November, when the loan was given, you
were at your employer's office to secure an
order for a valve which we needed, and
that Hayward asked you to witness the
lady's signature, which you did; that the
money was lying in piles on the desk, and
you particularly noticed a pile of $20 bills,
but did not know how much money there
was there? Did you so state to them 2 A.
No, sir; I did not state any such thing.
Q. To McMurch or Levering? A. No,
sir; I did not; never said anything of that
kind to anybody.
Q. Did you, at the same interview, when
questioned by them about Hayward visit-
ing the basement, did you state to them
that he was in the habit of coming down
every night to feed his dog? A. I said he
came down every night and got a drink of
water, and took his dog with him up to
bed. I don’t know who I said it to. I
might have said that to lots of people.
Q. Now, you testified yesterday that
about a week before the murder occurred,
that you were down to the office and wit—
nessed a note; and you were asked to tell
how you came to witness the note, and you
said, “I needed a throttle valve,” and you
went to Harry about it, “and he said for
me to come down about 11 o'clock; that
was the evening before I told him; and he
said to come down at 11 o’clock; that he
would go with me to buy one. That is the
way it was.” Then you testified at 11
o'clock the next day you told your wife
you had to go and buy a throttle valve,
and you went down to Twelfth and Henne-
pin and you met W. W. Hayward, and he
told you to hurry down to the office be-
cause Harry was waiting for you? A.
That is right.
Q. Did you not say anything to him
about the throttle valve? A. No, sir.
Q. Mr. Hayward told you to hurry down
to the office, that Harry was waiting for
you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, on the 24th of November, at 11
or 11:10, about two or three rods from the




90 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Ozark on Hennepin, did you not meet W.
W. Hayward? A. No, sir, I met him just
when he got off the car at Twelfth street.
Q. Did you not say to Hayward: “I have
got to go down and get the valve; I was
just going down to see you to see where to
get it?” A. No, sir; we did not have any
conversation at all.
Q. Now, you told this jury that you
never saw this woman before. A. No, I
would not tell any such thing. I seen her
lots, but I never knew her name; seen her
and Harry go together from the hotel, and
seen them sit on the porch of the hotel
together all summer, along the fore part
of the summer.
Q. But you never spoke to her? A. Nev-
er did.
Q. Never was in her room? A. Never
Q. I don’t mean in an improper manner,
but in her room for the purpose of bring-
ing ice water to her? A. No, sir, I was
not. The little girl came down and I gave
her the ice water once; she wanted water
and she did not have the water there and
then I gave her the ice water.
Q. You never did any errands for Miss
Ging in her room? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, in your first statement in rela-
tion to what was done at that loan, at the
time the loan was made, you did not say
anything about Harry's asking you to
mention to the elevator boy—you never
mentioned it in your first statement, did
you, that Harry told you that you should
say, “J– C–, what a lot of big bills
there was?” A. No, sir, probably I did
not. I don’t remember whether I did or
not.
Q. You did not mention that in your sec-
ond statement either? A. I think I did.
Q. Now, you say that Harry told you “I
want you to tell me when I get to the
elevator, J– C–, what a lot of big bills
that was.” A. Yes, sir, that is what I
SWear to.
Q. Well, who put that in your head to
say? A. Harry did.
Q. Why didn’t you remember it when
you made your first statement? A. Why
didn’t I remember everything; I can’t re-
member everything.
Q. Why didn’t you remember it when
you made your second statement? A. I
don’t know.
Q. Why didn't you remember it when
you made your second statement, when you
were particularly asked 2
Objected to.
Q. How do you remember that your at-
torney has that in his statement? A. I
remember; because I remember.
Q. There is the first place that you can
remember? A. When I gave him my state-
ment I had come to my senses, and was
already getting better.
Q. Getting better and better? A. Yes, I
am getting better and I am thankful to
God that I am.
Q. You frankly admit that you then had
memory when you talked to your attorney?
A. I frankly say what I have told is true.
Q. Don't you know that you have coined
that statement, and have put it in evidence
for the purpose of showing that Harry had
not loaned the money which he professed
to have loaned, and that he tried to use you
as a decoy to fool the elevator boy? A. I
do not admit that,
Q. What was it that made you remem-
ber these circumstances? A. What was it
—that is plain to every man and to every
human soul, who knows that a man that
went through as much as I have under
the circumstances that I have, that he
could not remember everything all at once.
Q. You forgot you killed the woman at
first, forgot that, didn't you?
Objected to on the ground that there is
no such testimony.
Sustained.
Q. Do you mean to say that your state-
ments were made true as fast as your
memory came back to you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You did not remember having killed
the woman when you made the first state-
ment? A. I remembered it, yes, sir.
Q. Then you deliberately told an untruth
about it, did you?
Mr. Nye-That has been gone over.
Mr. Erwin–Can you give any reason, any
suggestion, any talk that calls back to your
mind the words “J– C– what a lot of big
bills there were?” A. Yes, sir, I can.
Q. What was it? A. Because he told
me that I should say that; but I did not
say that.
Q. I understood you to say that you did
say going down the elevator, “What a lot
of big bills there was?” A. Yes, sir, that is
right; that is what I said.
Q. But for conscientious reasons you
omitted the words “J– C–??? A. Yes,
sir, he told me I should say that.
Q. You onitted those words yourself? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Blixt, do you mean to tell this
jury now that he used all those words in
connection with the big bills, “J– C-,
what a lot of big bills there were,” and it
was too outrageous for you to say? A. Yes,
sir, I mean because I had nothing to do
with it and I had no business to say such
things.
Q. Do you mean to say those words you
left out because of conscientious reasons?
A. Yes.
Objected to as immaterial. Sustained.
Q. Don't you know that Harry Hayward
has never been guilty of using profane
words, swearing, that that is not one of his
bad habits at all? A. He did swear to me
lots of times.
Q. Now, don’t you know that in your
first statement and in your second state-
ment, that you did not use any oaths at
all in his mouth 2 A. I don't say that I said
anything in the first statement because I
did not have it right. I didn't remember it
all. I don’t remember to swearing to one-
third what he has sworn before me.
Q. You filled your last statement and tes-
timony full of profanity, haven’t you?
Objected to.
The Court–It is matter of argument for
the jury.
Q. Is it on account of memory alone
that you put these swear words in your
last testimony? A. When I made my last
statement I have it in full, and I have it
all in there.
Question read by stenographer.
A. I remember that along just after-
wards when I come to my senses and I got
better.
Q. Now, as I understand your testimony,
you say that that night, the night you
witnessed the note, you had a conversation


















OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
with Harry Hayward? A: I never wit:
nessed a note in any night.
Q. Was it daylight or dark? A. It was
dark, but I don't remember what time he
came down there, but I know he was there
quite a While.
You are sure it was after the elevator
shifted and before 11 o'clock at night? A.
No, sir, I am not sure it was before the
elevator shifted, neither. He might have
been in, in the afternoon and spoke about
it, for all I can remember.
Q. Haven't you just testified before the
jury it was after dark? A. Yes, sir, I say
he might have been there in the night and
in the afternoon, too. Of course, I don't
remember just exactly what hour or time
he was there, but he kept me there until
after my time to go to bed; some time
after 12.
Q. He did not keep you there every af-
ternoon until time to go to bed—it must
have been at night? A. I remember he
was there at night. I don’t remember the
exact time. I know that he told me about
it after I had witnessed the note.
Now, what time was it that Harry
brought down to you the T rail to be
cut? A. That was Saturday—that Satur-
day he went out before the murder. I
don’t know any exact time, but I think it
was about 5, or between 4 and 5, or 5–
I could not tell just exactly for certain.
When I first saw it he had it in his hands.
I never saw that iron before. It may have
been in the basement, I did not look the
basement all over. After he told me I
should cut it, he told me I should put it
in the fire.
Q. You can’t tell what time you cut that
T rail? A. No, sir, between the time he
came down first and after he went out;
told me then and I put it in the fire, and
after it had been in the fire a while it then
got hot, and before I cut it—probably it
might have been 5 o'clock or something, or
a little after 5, something like that.
Q. Was Harry there when you cut it?
A. No, sir, he told me what to do and went
away.
Q. How long afterwards did you see
him? A. Hans Barlow was there.
Q. Was anybody with you when you saw
him? A. Hans Barlow was there. -
Q. What did he do with it? A. He took
it under his coat and went up with it.
Q: Who was there when he took it un-
der his coat? A. Hans Barlow.
Q. Hans Barlow could see it? A. I don’t
know if he saw it or not; that I don’t
know.
Q. In your second statement when you
asked “When Hans Barlow was there too,”
did you answer “Yes, when Hans Barlow
was there, he took held of it to turn it, and
he made a blind to Hans Barlow after I
cut it, and said, “Pshaw, you didn't get
that right,’ ” Did you so state in your see-
ond statement? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He says, “Pshaw, you didn't get that
right.” Is that true? A. Well, he swore—
I don’t want to swear now. I am tired of
swearing. He swore, “You fool, you did
not get that right. I wanted it bent.”
Now, when you came to testify yes-
terday, you changed that word “Pshaw,” to
an oath; you said, “Why, you — — fool I
wanted it bent.” A. Yes, I did not always
want to swear if I could help it—I did not
think then it was necessary for me just to
say the exact words. That is why I did
not mention it. -
Q. Now, haven’t you all through your
statement and testimony substituted these
oaths? A. I have got my statement with
my attorney, which is correct just as I
have stated here in this court.
Q. If you have any doubt about your
memory you fall back upon your attorney’s
statement? A. Whatever I told in this
court is true.
Mr. Nye-Your honor, the witness has
quite a headache on account of the heat
here and the length of time of the examin-
ation, and if agreeable to the court, I will
put on another witness, and have Mr.
Blixt back in the morning.
The Court—Very well.
Ellen Julia, Blixt.
Was then sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. You are the wife of Mr. Blixt who has
just testified? A. Yes, sir.
. When were you married? A. The
29th of August, last August three years
ago.
Q. At what place in Minneapolis have
you lived most of the time? A. Lived in
the Eighth ward most of the time.
Q. Do you remember what time you went
to the Ozark flats to live? A. I went there
the 1st of June.
Q. You lived in the basement after the
1st of June? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did your family consist of, any-
one besides yourself and husband? A. No
one except my brother; he stayed with me
part of the time. His name is Charles A.
Anderson. He was there the last month
and a little over, most of the time slept
there nights during November, and he was
there considerably during all the late part
of the summer.
Q. And particularly in November and up
to the time of this trouble which occurred,
he slept there, did he? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he have any employment about
the block? A. During the month of No-
vember he was firing up from 3 o'clock in
the morning until 7, to heat the building.
He was to get up at 3 o'clock in the morn-
ing and heat the building until 7.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward, the
defendant who is on trial here? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you see him very frequently af-
ter you went there in June? A. Yes, sir;
I did.
Q. Did you see him frequently in the
basement where you people lived? A. Yes,
sir; more so the latest part of the summer.
Q. Do you recall whether he was there
Very much during the week preceding the
murder of Miss Ging? A. He was there
every night for a long time before that. It
Was more than a week. It was about three
Weeks, if not a month, that he was there
constantly every day, and especially at
night, and was there very late, too. He
was always talking to Blixt when they
were alone. They were talking for hours;
long after Blixt closed down at night they
would sit and talk there after 11 o'clock.
Q: Did you ever hear any portions of
the conversations that they would have?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever undertake to Overhear
or to listen? A: No, sir; I never dared to
listen; but I asked my husband lots of
times what they were talking about.
Objected to.
----' -- . . . . . .





92 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. Were you about your work when you
would notice them talking together? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Would you notice any difference in
the tone of the voices?
Mr. Erwin–We ask that this witness be
not led.
The Court–No, do not ask leading ques-
tions.
Mr. Nye-Do you recall any particular
time during the week preceding the 3d of
December in which you saw them talking
together? A. I could not name any spe-
cial time, because they were always talk-
ing together, most always.
Q. Do you recall whether you saw him
on the Saturday evening preceding the
murder? A. No, sir. I don't think I saw
him on Saturday evening.
Do you know about what time it
was that you saw them on Monday even-
ing. A. I think it was after 6.
Q. You did not pay any particular at-
tention to the time? A. No, sir; only we
always had supper late—that is how I
know.
Did you see Harry that evening
after that time? A. Yes, sir; I saw him
just after Blixt had gone out.
. About what time was it, if you can
tell, that Blixt did go out? A. The ex-
act time I can not say, but I think it was
after 7; some time after 7.
Q. Might it have been considerably after
7? A. It might have been for all I know;
I could not say sure.
Q. You can not be positive as to the
time exactly? A. No.
Q. Did you see your husband when he
went out? A. I saw him when he came in
after his coat. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he then go out? A. He went
out with coat and cap.
Q. What clothes did he have on? A.
The same as he had on here today.
Q. When did you next see him, your
husband? A. Around about 10 o'clock I
think. I saw him right in our rooms. In
our basement.
Q. Do you know whether or not he went
into any other part of the block upstairs?
A. Not after he had come in. I don't re-
member.
Q. Do you know whether he did or not?
A. No, sir, I could not say for sure.
Q: What did he say when he came in?
A. He did not say anything; he went
right in the bed room and went and took
off his coaſt and went to bed. I saw he
had drank something. I smelled it; the
odor was an unusual one, and asked
him what he had been drinking. I went
to bed about half past 10, I think, or near
11—I think a quarter of 11 or so.
Q. Was it before or after you went to
bed—you slept with him in the same bed?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was after you went to bed that
you had this conversation with him about
his drinking? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it then that you noticed that
he had been drinking, or before you went
to bed? A: I noticed just when he came
in that he looked something like that he
had been drinking something, and when
I went to bed I smelled that he had been
drinking.
Q. Go back to the time that he left,
went out of the block after putting on his
cap and coat, did you see Harry? A.
Harry just came down as he went up, or
just after Blixt had gone. He went right
to the pail to get a drink of water, and I
was standing in the door, and he says,
“Where is the boss?” and I says, “He just
went up; didn't you meet him?” He says,
“Oh, yes, that is so, I met him,” and he
said something about a sewing machine—
what was that he said. He said he was in
such a hurry, I did not know whether I
had time to answer him or not. I said,
“Your father promised me I could put my
sewing machine in your flat,” and he said,
“Put it up and keep it there and sew all
your life,” and he ran out with his over-
coat on his arm.
Q. Where was your sewing machine at
that time? A. My sewing machine was
in the basement at that time, and I had
not moved it up yet.
Q. Did you desire to move it up there?
A. Yes, because it was so dark in the
basement.
Q. Had you spoken to your husband be-
fore he went away in regard to the sew-
ing machine? A. Well, I asked him if he
saw Harry to ask him if he cared if I put
it up there.
Q. After that time when did you next
see Harry? A. I saw him somewhere
about 11 o'clock, or a little after, may be.
After I had gone to bed. He came right
into our bedroom. He hollered, asked if
Blixt was asleep before he came into the
room. Then he came into our room and
went past the bed and in to the waſter
meter, and he says, “Blixt, do you notice
how this meter leaks nights?” and then he
straightened himself up and looked towards
Blixt.
Q. Did Blixt look towards him? A. I
did not look at Blixt.
Q. Was there any further conversation?
A. No, my brother had just before, just
a few minutes before Harry came in, my
brother came and told me—
Objected to.
Q. That was all that Harry said at that
time that you remember? A. That was
all that Harry—not quite all. Blixt told
him that my brother-in-law came in and
told my wife that the girl on the fifth floor
being out driving got hurt, and he seemed
to be in a hurry to tell Harry this.
Q. Your brother-in-law told Harry? A.
No, sir, Blixt told Harry this; my brother-
in-law was just in and told me a few
minutes before Harry came in. Harry said
“What, did she get hurt very bad,” and
he said I guess I will go up and see, and
then he went. It only took about three
or four minutes for the whole conversation.
Q. Did you see him again that night?
A. Yes, sir. I saw him some time during
the morning hours, between 3 and 4 o'clock.
Q. Whese did you see him? A. In the
basement, right in our bedroom. Blixt was
Still in bed.
Q. What did Harry say then, if any-
thing? A. He hollered loud and asked if
Blixt was asleep.
Q. Did he speak to Blixt—state just his
words if you remember them. A. He said,
“Blixt, are you asleep?” And he hollered
that loud twice; and Blixt answered rough-
ly, “No.” And Harry said “You know
Blixt that I have been down town, and it
is her, and she has been murdered for her
money,” he says, “it seems as though she




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 93
has met with some men, fellows of hers,
and that they murdered her and took my
money, and my seven thousand dollars is
gone; I don't expect I will ever see a cent
of it; and the people down town say it is
the most horrible and cold blooded murder
that was ever committed, and there is not
a clue to the murderer anywheres to be
found,” and he said, “I have been upstairs
talking to the little girl trying to find out
something, if she knew something about it,
and she did not seem to know anything,
and I don’t know what to do,” he says.
“I don't know whether I had better go
down in the morning and notify the insur-
ance company or not,” he said; and talked
a great long speech, and then he went
away.
Q. State whatever you can remember.
A. Well, he ran through and Blixt did
not make any answer. So I said, “The
poor girl, wasn't that too bad; I wish they
would get the man that done it,” I says.
That is the very words I said. Blixt did
not make any remarks at all, and I
blamed it to him being intoxicated. He
did not say anything.
Q. Did you see Harry again that day?
A. No, some time in the morning, the
same day; I saw him out in the boiler
room. That was about probably 8 or 9
o'clock in the morning. He was talking
to Blixt. I think, when I saw him. My
brother was out there too, I think.
Q. Do you know how long he was there
then? A: No, sir, I could not say how
long, because I did not pay any attention.
Q. Did you hear anything that was said
at that time? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see him again in the base-
ment that day? A. I don’t think I did.
Q. Did you see him and Blixt together at
any time after that and before your hus-
band's appearance? A. Yes, sir, I saw
Harry in the basement the day that he was
let out.
Q. That was at what time, did you say?
A. In the afternoon, I think.
Q. After Harry had been down? A.
After he had been down to the sweat pro-
cess, they call it.
Q. Well, was that Tuesday? A. Why, it
was the same day, the first day he was let
out, I don’t remember what day it was.
He had been down there one night, I think.
Q. Then it would be Wednesday? A.
May be it was.
Q. Then, you think Wednesday evening–
it was in the evening, was it? A. No, it
was during the day; I think it was during
the noon hour, or something like that that
he was down there.
Q: Who was he with then?
not with anybody.
Q. Did you hear him talk, or did you see
his talk with Mr. Blixt at any time? A.
He was sitting on the chair talking to Mr.
Blixt.
Q. Was he in your living apartment
there? A. No, it was right in the boiler
room
Q: Were you near enough to hear any
ºº: A. Yes, sir, I heard some
of it.
Q: What did you hear? A. Well, he
was telling Blixt how they had questioned
him down town. He says, “Those darn
fools down there think I know something
about it.” And he says, “They took me in
front of the corpse and thought I would
A. He was
break down and say that I done it, ha!”
just like that, he said. I cannot just re-
member all he said now; but I know I
heard more than that. And he said to
Blixt, “They asked me down town if you
had been a policeman once, and I told
them yes.”
Q. Anything further occur to you that
you heard? A. I can’t remember now.
Q. Well, do you remember of seeing
them together again up to the time your
husband was arrested? A. Well, he came
down there, I think about supper time
again that same day. -
Q. Well, did Blixt see him at that time?
A. Yes, sir, Blixt was there. As he came
down stairs he says, “Well, the latest re-
port is that they have got the man and
they have got the rifle; they have got a
clue to them now.” And then he took the
evening paper and started to read it.
Q. Who did he say that to, you or
Blixt? A. To Blixt, and if I am not mis-
taken, Frank Tucker was down there too.
Q. Frank Tucker was the elevator boy?
A. Yes, sir, and I have got a young
brother that was there too; he heard the
same words. His name is Andrew Ander-
Son.
Q. Did you notice anything unusual in
the conduct or appearance of your hus-
band prior to and just preceding the night
of the homicide of the 3d of December? A.
Yes, sir, I did.
Q. What was it?
Mr. Erwin–That is objected to as irrele-
vant and immaterial not in the presence of
the defendant.
The Court—Objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin—Exception.
Q. State, Mrs. Blixt, what was his man-
ner, appearance and conduct during the
days preceding the 3d of December? A.
Well, he did not talk much, that was one
thing, and he acted kind of stubborn, and
he ate but very little, and he did not sleep
nights, and I asked him if he was sick,
and he said no.
The Court—You need not state what he
said now.
Q. During these days was he having
these frequent visits and conferences with
Harry that you have mentioned? A. Yes,
Sir.
Q. How long prior to the 3d of December
had you noticed these unusual appearances
and symptoms of which you have spoken?
A. Well, especially the last two weeks.
Q. Was he a man of usually good appe-
tite, resting well and sleeping well? A. He
always rested well and slept well before
that.
Q. When was it noticeable to you that
his sleep was broken and appetite poor?
Mr. Erwin–Same objection as before, im-
material and irrelevant.
The Court—The objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. When did it become noticeable to
you? A. Well, the two or three last weeks
before this happened.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. You say your brother, Charles Ander-
son, was there about all of the month of
November and some time during the month
preceding November? A Yes, sir.
Q. And you also have a younger brother
that was there? A. He was not there very




94 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
much; he was there that special night I
ention.
". He would get up early in the morning
2 A. Yes, sir.
*...". long were you there before you
became acquainted with Harry? A. I never
was acquainted with him at all, only I saw
him come down there talking with my *.
band. I saw him just as quick as º:
there. He was there every day and *:::::
almost. Most every day, and for some s
before my husband was arrested he wa
*... º.ºrge of the *.atº
- know? A. Why, W. W. -
º *...*. they seemed to have
f it.
º*... would they be around the º:
ing looking over it and taking care of it?
*...*.*.*.* you see Harry there? A.
why, yes, they both lived right ...”
Q. would he always talk with *...*.
band when he was down there? A. ell,
resence.
*: * ... saw them conversing to-
gether? A: Yes, sir, I would see them. di
Q. I understood you to say in your di-
rect examination, that they would talk .
gether for hours? A. They would *... i.
yes, sir. And sometimes after 1. o' C. . -
I saw that more frequently a short time
before my husband was arrested.
Q. Well, about when would the time
commence that he would be copyeºn;
with your husband there after 11 o'clock at
nights? A. Well, about three weeks or a
month preceding this crime. I know °.
thing that my husband did not come to
bed while I was awake lots of times.
Q. Could you See from your bed or hear
from where you slept when your husband
was engaged in conversation in the boiler
room? A. Yes, sir, I could. I could hear
them talking. I could tell their voices.
Q. How many doors are there Peº
your sleeping room and the boiler room?
are three doors.
*...". you would hear through all of
those three doors— A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you say that you saw Harry
Hayward on the Saturday preceding the
murder? A. I don’t remember just ex-
actly. I don't remember of seeing him on
any certain time on Saturday.
Q. Well, do you remember of having seen
him on Saturday preceding the murder at
any time? A. No, I could not say that.
Q. Do you remember of having seen him
on Friday preceding the murder? A. Yes,
sir, I think he was down there in the
in o- -
º was there at the time? A: Blixt.
Q. Was there anybody there besides
yourself, Mr. Blixt and Harry? A. No,
". How long did Harry stay there that
night? A. I could not say: I was not
marking the nights he stayed there, I did
nything wrong.
*. *..." is your best recollection.
A yes, sir, that is my best recollection,
that he was there Friday. -
Q: What is your recollection as to
whether he was there Thursday night or
not preceding the homicide? A. I am not
positive, but I think he was down there in
the afternoon, some time after dinner.
Q. When is the first day you think he
was down there? A: I could not mark any
days; he was down there every day.
Q. Then, if he was down there every
day, he was down there on Wednesday
preceding? A. I think he was. I am
pretty positive.
: Do you remember his being down
there on Sunday immediately preceding
the homicide? A. I don't remember of
seeing him Sunday evening, but I think
he was down there Sunday sometime, but
; don’t remember seeing him in the even-
ng.
Q. Then, the first time you can recall
the circumstances and conversations was
on the Monday evening immediately pre-
ceding the homicide? A. Yes, sir, I re-
member that perfectly well.
Q. How long did he stop there that
night? A. They were not sitting down at
all. I saw him and that was all, I think.
Q. Well, where was he when you Saw
him on Monday night? A. He was right
in the boiler room, standing about the mid-
dle of the floor.
Q: Did you see Blixt at that time? A.
Yes, sir, he was working around there. I
did not see them speak together. I was in
the kitchen at the time. I think it was
after 6 o'clock. I could not fix it any
nearer.
Q. That was the first time you saw him
down there on that Monday? A. Yes, sir,
as near as I can remember.
Q. Had you had any supper? A. No,
sir, I was preparing it.
Q. About what time do you usually eat
supper? A. Sometimes 6:30 and some-
times 7.
Q. Then where did you see Harry next
after the time that you saw him a little
after 6 o'clock? A. I saw him then right
after Blixt had gone up. It was after 7, I
could not fix the exact time. I could fix it
in this way, I think we had supper at 6:30.
Q. So, it was after supper and after your
husband had gone up that Harry came
down the second time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you are positive it was before
supper you saw Harry out there with your
husband? A. Yes, sir, I am positive.
Q. If I understand correctly, Mr. Blixt.
you saw your husband go out a little after
7, you are not able to fix it any nearer
than that? A. No, sir, it was after 7.
Q. Would you say it was a quarter
or half past 7? A. It was not half past, I
don’t think.
Q. Well, do you think it was a quarter
past? A. It might have been 15 or 20 min-
nues, I could not say for sure.
Q. Was your husband in the basement
continuously from the first time you saw
him with Harry on that Monday evening
until he went out a little after 7 o’clock?
A. He was in there all the time, yes, sir.
Q. How long did Mr. Hayward stop when
he came down into the basement after 7
o'clock? A. He did not stop but a few
minutes, I don’t think.
Q. Do you know how long after your
husband went out after Harry came
down? A. My husband had just gone up
when Harry came down.
Q. How do you know when he went out?
A. He came after his coat and cap.
Q. Do you know whether he staid out in
the engine room and boiler room a little












OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 95
while before he went away or not? A: I
know he went right off. -
Q. Did you see him after he was in Your
room to get his coat and cap? A. I did
not see him until he came back that even-
": well, a very few moments after he
went out of your room with his coat and
cap, Harry came down? A: Yes, sir, just
as he had gone Harry came down. I think
he came down in the elevator.
Q. And did he hold a conversation with
you in the boiler room or some other room?
A. I was standing in the kitchen and he
came to the pail and got a drink of water.
Q. Then, when did you see Harry next?
A. My husband came home somewhere
around 10 o'clock.
Q. You saw your husband about an hour
before you saw Harry? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you any way that you can fix
the hour that he came home on that night?
A. No, I think my brother said it was
10; I did not think it was as late as that,
but I found it was.
Q. Did you have any conversation with
your husband when he came home A.
Yes, sir, I asked him if the people were
home.
Q. Did he have any work to do about
the furnaces before he retired that night?
A.. I don’t know; my oldest brother,
Charles, had charge of the furnace that
night and attended to it.
Q. Were you in Harry's room on the
morning of the homicide? A. I was doing
his work—making up his bed—and I was
there every day.
Q. Were you in his room any time dur-
ing the day except in the morning? A.
Not on Monday.
Q. Did you have a key so you could get
ºnto his room any time you wanted to?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did your husband have a key? A. No
sir, he did not.
Q. About what time did you make his
bed on Monday morning? A. About the
same time as usual, I think, between 10
and 11 or so; that is the time I most al-
ways made it, and I think very likely I
did that morning. I made his bed after I
done W. W. Hayward’s work.
Q. Where was that key of yours? A.
That key I had on a string. -
Q. Did Mr. Blixt have that key that
night? A. No, sir, he never had that key,
I had it myself.
Q. Then, the next morning, you say, you
were in there about 7 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you carried the sewing machine
in about 7 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did anybody else go into the room
with you at that time? A. The dressmaker
came soon after and went to work there.
Q. Did anybody go into the room when
you carried the machine in 2 A. My hus-
band and Frank did.
Q. Did you lock the door? A. Why, the
door locks itself.
Q. Do you know who the elevator boy
was that night? A. My brother.
Q. What did Harry say when he came
down to your rooms about 3 or 4 o'clock in
the morning? A. He hollered loud and
asked if Blixt was asleep, same as before,
“Are you asleep, Blixt?”
Q. Did Blixt answer at that time? A.
He did not answer him until he stood in
front of the bed and hollered loud and he
said “No.”
Q. Where was you when he hallooed the
first time? A. He was coming in out in
the kitchen.
Q. And what answer did your husband
make to him? A. He said “No.”
Q. Did you say “It was too bad” before
or after he talked about the insurance? A.
I said it a good many times and I felt ter-
ribly, I could not sleep at night—I could
not sleep on account of the terrible news I
had heard, and I explained that to Harry;
Blixt did not answer and so I did.
Q. He went off without receiving any
reply from Blixt at all? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was down there 5 or 10 minutes?
A- Oh, it did not take him long; he talked
fast; he seemed to be very much excited.
He kept on talking and I kept remarking
that it was too bad.
Q. Between 8 and 9 o'clock in the morn-
ing, where did you then see Harry Hay-
ward? A. He was out in the boiler
room, I think. I was in the kitchen.
Where was your husband? A.
was out in the boiler room somewheres.
Q: What time did your husband get up
that morning? A. I don't know; I think
he got up about 7 o'clock.
Q: What time does he usually get up in
the morning? A. Oh, he usually got up
about 20 to 25 minutes to 7 o'clock.
Q. So that morning, he was 25 minutes
late? A. My brother sometimes started up
in the morning.
Q. Did he get up without calling? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear any conversation that
Tuesday morning? A. No, sir. I did not.
Q. Then the next time you saw him after
Tuesday morning, immediately preceding
the homicide was when? A. When he was
first let out from the sweat process, as
they call it. I think it must have been on
Wednesday. I think it was about noon, or
near noon. I saw him twice that day.
The first time about noon, and the next
time about supper time.
Q. You did not see him when he first
came down? A. No, sir.
Q. You don’t know how long he had
been there when you first saw him? A.
I did not know.
Q. He was conversing with your hus-
band in the boiler room? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it the first or the second time
that he came in on Wednesday, that is, if
Wednesday was the day of his release,
which time did you hear the conversation?
A. The first time.
Q. What did he say at that time about
the people down town? A. Oh, he said
that the people was excited and he told me
what he had been through, and that the
people were questioning him, and he said,
“The darn fools, they think I know some-
thing I forgot to tell when Mr. Nye
asked me to tell him what he said to me—”
he said “I have got a good mind to sue
them for detaining me, and I think I
will too.” When they were talking about
the girl, he said, “I feel sorry for the girl,
but to tell the actual truth, I worry more
about my money than I do about the
girl.”
Q. He was telling this to your husband?
A. Yes, sir.
He




º OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. What did your husband say? A. He
did not say anything; he was just shovel-
hing the slop into the furnace at that time.
Q. Did you hear your husband say a
word while you were down there? A. No,
I didn’t hear him say anything.
Q. Then, you say he came down the sec-
ond time, about what time in the after-
noon? A. Well, the gas was lit and I could
not fix any better time. He came down
the back stairs, I think he came from his
supper. He said the latest news was they
had a clue to the murderer and the right
clue; they have got him now, he says, and
then he took hold at the evening paper and
started to read it.
Q. Was that the night that Erickson
came back from Iowa? A. I don’t remem-
ber. He didn't come back in the night at
all, he came in the morning.
Q. Well, had he come back then? A. He
didn't come back then, he came back
Thursday morning, I think.
Q. And this was Wednesday evening?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did Harry give anything to your hus-
band, did he pass anything to your hus-
band that Monday night that you saw? A.
No, sir.
Q. Did he hand anything to you? A. No,
sir, he did not.
Q. Did your husband get out of bed
when he came down there? A. No, sir.
Q. Are you sure of that? A. I am sure
of that.
Q. And that Harry had no opportunity
of passing anything to your husband? A.
No, sir, he did not.
Q. And did he not give anything to you
and you passed it to your husband? A.
No, sir, didn’t offer anything.
Q. Did Blixt pass anything to Harry on
that Monday night when Harry came down
into the basement? A. No, sir, not in my
presence.
Q. Well, he didn’t pass anything to you,
and you give it to Harry on that night?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did Mr. Blixt get up after he went
to bed that night to your knowledge, until
about 7 o'clock in the morning when he
arose to go to his work? A. No, sir. I
am sure of that.
Q. Now, you say for weeks—prior to the
time of the murder your husband had act-
ed strangely? A. Yes, sir, he had. In all
ways. He used to be pleasant. He didn’t
talk or act the same as he used to, and
did not eat as he used to. He would not
talk, and would not answer me. He would
not say anything to anybody, and he used
to be willing, and he did used to help me
with the morning work, that is, to sweep,
and he used to do it all alone sometimes,
and I think it was a couple of weeks be-
fore he was arrested, one morning I went
up to sweep, and I asked him if he was
going to help me, and he did not say any-
thing, and after a while he came up and
acted mad, and he commenced to curse his
job, and said it was the worst job he ever
had. He said it was the damnedest job
he ever had. I asked him what was the
matter and he said, “I am getting tired of
this.” I told him I didn’t either, so it was
all right, we could both quit.
Q. How long did this conversation occur
before the homicide? A. Well, I should
think, perhaps, about two weeks.
Q. That was the first symptom of this
changed nature that you saw? A. No, it
was not the first. I could not tell you
that; any exact date; but as near as I can
judge it was about three weeks before this
trouble. He didn't have any appetite
when he came to the table, and I noticed
he was laying awake at night.
Q. Well, was he cross to you? A. No,
not cross to me, but he only remarked this
about his job.
Q. Well, this changed condition, this
stubbornness and sleeplessness and loss of
appetite, you think they came on gradual
about two or three weeks before the homi-
cide? A. I think so, that is the nearest
time I can state.
Q. How long did they continue? A. Un-
til he was arrested.
Q. Was he unwilling to talk after the
homicide? A. Just about the same as be-
fore. I did not notice any change at all.
Q. You remember, Mrs. Blixt, how your
husband came home on the Monday night
of Dec. 3, whether he came down the ele-
vator, or whether he came down one of the
stairways? A. I don't know which way
he came in. I was in the room when he
came in.
Q. How long had your brother been in
the boiler room before Mr. Blixt came
there? A. My brother was there from
early in the evening.
Do you know whether your brother
was out of the boiler room at all during the
evening? A. He was running the elevator
and attending to both the elevator and the
boiler.
. You don't know whether he was out
of the building that night or not? A. He
could not leave the building having the
elevator on his hand.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Usually when you would see Blixt
and Harry in the boiler room there you
would be working about the kitchen? A:
Yes, sir.
Q. A large part of your household work
was in the kitchen? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And there is only one door and the
hallway there, and the opening between
that and the boiler room? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You did not listen to hear what was
said? A. No, I did not.
Q. But you noticed quite often that Blixt.
would not come to bed until you had gone
to bed at night? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What was his usual hour of retiring
when there was nothing unusual to take up
his attention? A. Oh, a few minutes past
Q. And what time would you generally
go to bed? A. Well, I stayed up until
about 10, half past 10 and 11 myself, dif-
fering in time.
Q. Well, did you notice that he came to
bed later than common some nights? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And were those nights when Harry
was in the boiler room with him? A. I.
think so, yes, sir. I heard them talking as
long as I was awake.
Q. Your impression is Harry was there
every night for a week or two before this
homicide occurred? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say your usual supper hour was
when? A. From half past 6 to 7 and some-
times later.




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 97
- u had your
o you know what time you
º "hº"..." "ºne inirº A.
think between 6 and 7, about half past 6. º
Q. Well, that is a matter of judgment?
A. well, yes, sir, I could º say for sure,
might have been close to ".
"...” Blixt take supper with you that
t. A. Yes, sir.
". Had you gone to sleep when º
came in the first time Monday night? A.
No, sir.
if you went to bed about a quarter
º i. . be far out of he º in
saying it was 11 or a little afterº A. O.
Q. Did you make any remark in reply
when Harry said really, he didn’t care º
much for the girl as he did for the money :
A. No, I didn't say a word. I remember
Blixt saying something now, yes, while
Harry was sitting there, about that news.
Q: What news? A. After he came home
own town. -
"..." º the sweat box” A. Yes, sº.
Q. what was it? A. Now, he says: I
have always been an honest man and tried
to do everything that is right, and I can
prove that by my wife, but if she goes
down town and is killed how am .* ex-
plain for myself, where I have been
Q. Blixt said that to Harry? A. º,
Q. Did you hear any reply from Harry
A. Blixt seemed to be excited and he
seemed to be pale, and while Blixt was
talking Harry said, in a half lºud. tone,
ºroolish, foolish,” and so I said, What
do you get excited for? You have nothing
to do with it.” That is all I said.
Q. Do you remember the occasion of the
fire set to the barn across the street from
the Ozark flats? A: I have no knowledge
of it at all. -
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
r. Smith.
º *. whom did you address this re-
mark, “Why should you be excited, you
had nothing to do with it” 2 A. To my
husband. He seemed kind of nervous.
Q. Have you ever talked this case over
with the mayor? A. I have not seen any-
dy about it.
* Well, were you taken away from the
Ozark? A. Yes, sir, I was taken away
from the Ozark the same night that my
husband was arrested.
Q. By whom were you taken?
the mayor and Mr. Hoy.
Where did they take you?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as not cross-
examination.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Who have you talked to in regard to
these facts you have been testifying to
since your husband's arrest? A. I have not
talked to any certain men besides our at-
torney about the case.
Q. Have you talked with Mr. Ege? A.
Some; I answered some questions he asked
me.
Q. Where were you when you answered
the questions Mr. Ege asked you, Mrs.
Blixt? A. At his residence in the jail.
Q. Where did you go that night; you say
you were carried down town 2 A. To the
West Hotel.
Q. Did you converse with any one that
night? A. I answered questions that night,
yes, sir.
Q. Questions about what? A. About the
ºase
A. By
q. 1 understood you to say you didn’t
| -
answer any questions except to Mr. Odell
and Mr. Ege. A. Well, I did not know to
what you referred.
Q. Well, when you were taken down town
that night who were you questioned by and
answered questions? A. Mayor Eustis, and
a few to Mr. Hoy.
Q. Any to Mr. Hall? A. A few.
Q. And a few to the chief of police, Mr.
Smith? A. Yes, sir, I think so.
Q. Were those answers written down?
A.. I don’t know; I think so.
Q. You think so? A. Yes, I think Mayor
Eustis wrote down some, but I don’t think
any of the rest did.
Q. When did you talk last about this
case before you came on the witness tand
here? A: I talked to my husband pretty
nearly every day.
Q. When did you talk to Mr. Hall and
Mr. Nye in regard to this case last? A. I.
have not talked to them in regard to the
Case.
Q. Not at all? A. They have not talked
with me in regard to the case at all. -
Q. Not since Mr. Nye and Mr. Hall ques-
tioned you down at the City Hall? A. No.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Odell and I were at your house,
you remember that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you talked to both of us then? A.
Yes, sir, I didn't remember that at first,
but I do now. -
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m., Feb. 7, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 7.
Hans P. Barlovy
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
My home is in Spring Garden, Goodhue
county, Minnesota. I am a laboring man.
Q. Were you in this city during the lat-
ter part of November or first of December,
1894? ...A.. I was; yes, sir.
Q. ow long had you been in the city
prior to Dec. 3? A. I had been here a lit-
tle over a week then. I was down in the
country and came back here the 18th of
November. I remained here, I think, until
about Dec. 15, or somewhere near that, I
lived then on Bryant avenue, 2716 south.
Q. Do you know Claus A. Blixt? A. Yes,
sir. Have known him about 20 years.
Q. And you have visited him frequently
since he has lived in Minneapolis: A. I
have seen him a few times; yes, sir.
Q. Do you know where the Ozark Block
is? A. Yes, sir. -
Q: Did you visit him there, went with
him on or about the first of December? A.
No, sir. I was there, let me see, the 27th–
that was the first time I knowed Blixt was
there.
The Court. The 27th of November? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye. November, '94? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long were you there at the
Ozark? A. Well, 1 was not there Very
long, the 27th I just seen him in the even-
ing. I guess I got there about 8 o'clock, or
a little before 8, and I stayed there to sup-
per.
Q: What time did they have supper? A.
They had supper that evening late; she Wals
away and he was away.
Q. Do you know where they were? A. I
do not; they said Mr. Blixt was down town.
Q. He was with her, was he? A. No,




- opºlic IAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
sir; I don’t know whether he was with her
or not.
Q. Did you see Blixt there that evening?
A. Yes, I did; he came back and sat and
talked a little while in the basement.
Q. Did you see Harry Hayward? A. I
did see him in there; yes, sir; that was the
first evening I ever say Harry Hayward.
Q. Did you take any particular notice as
to the time in the evening, the hour? A.
No, I did not. He was down there a little
while, and then he went up again; that
was aly.
Q. What did you see him do or hear him
say at that time? A. Well, sir, I could not
tell you anything what he said. He was
talking to Mr. Blixt, but I could not tell
you anything about their conversation.
Q. Did you assist Blixt at any time in his
work in cutting an iron? A: I did, yes, sir;
I seen him cut the iron in the Ozark; that
was on Saturday, Saturday evening. The
following Saturday evening, I think, he cut
the iron between 4 and 5 o'clock, somewhere
near there. It was a T rail.
Q. Was it anything like this (showing
witness iron rail)” A. Yes, sir, that was
the rail; that is one piece of the rail what
he cut off. -
Q. That is the place where he cut it? A.
Yes, sir. (Indicating.)
Q. Did you see Harry after Blixt out the
rail? A. I did, yes, sir.
Q. How long? A. It was quite a little
while after he got the rail. Harry came
down and he asked Blixt if he had got the
job done; I did not know what kind of job
it was. Blixt said yes, and he turned
around and he seen the pieces that lay
there, both of them together on the floor,
both pieces of rail; and he said when he
saw them: “Oh, the devil, I did not want
it cut, I only wanted it bended,” and Blixt
kind of laughed at him, and then he said
some more, a few words—I don’t recollect
what it was, but he was kind of scolding
Blixt and cursing him, and Blixt said, “I
will get another one, I will get another
one” twice to him; and he took them both
up in his hands and said, “Oh, never mind,
may be they will do.” That is the very
words Hayward said. He took the pieces
both of them in his left hand and walked
out, and Blixt after him. They were both
laying on the side of the arch of the
Ozark, and he took them in his left hand
and went out through the arch toward
the elevator. The two irons lay on the
right hand side as you go through the
arch. That is where he picked them up
and went towards the elevator with them.
Blixt went after him.
Q. Where was it you cut the iron? A.
Right in front of those two big heating
boilers. Blixt did not return to the room
where I was for a little while. They were
out there talking, and I heard some rat-
tling going on out there, like something
was thrown down, and after that Blixt
came back in the room where I was sit-
ting, and the elevator bell was rung and I
presume Harry went up. I did not see
him go up, but the elevator bell was rung
and I did not see any more of Harry.
Q. Do you recall seeing him any more than
the two times that you have mentioned,
once on the 27th and the other time on
Saturday evening? A. Yes, sir, I seen him
on Thanksgiving night.
Q. Did you see him with Blixt that
night? A. Yes, sir; he was down there in
the basement, quite a long time Thanks-
giving night. He was showing us the
tricks what his dog could do.
Q. Was there any liquor drank at that
time? A. He come down to Blixt and
asked if he drank whisky, and Blixt told
him he did not drink any now. He said
he had done it; then he spoke something
about the girls had some whisky up stairs,
or something like that, and he went up,
and finally he come down with a half
water tumbler full of whisky and he gave
that to Blixt.
Q. Did Blixt drink it? A. No, sir; he
took it and set it out in the kitchen, took
the tumbler and went out in the kitchen
with it, and Harry sat there a little while
and he went out, and Blixt was working
around there attending to his business as
far as I know, and he sat there and talked
a while and Blixt said, “I wonder if we
shall taste that whisky that he gave us?”
I told him, “I don't care about it; suit
yourself,” I said to Blixt. Any way, he
took the whisky glass and took part of the
whisky.
Q. Now, did you see him at any other
time that you remember? A. No, I did
not see him any other time except that
Saturday night. I did see Blixt one even-
ing.
Q. When was that? A. I could not tell
you what time it was, but it was the even-
ing before he was arrested; I don't know
what date it was, but I went by there as
I went home.
Q. Did you see Harry on the Saturday
afternoon or evening before Blixt and you
out the iron? A. Yes, sir, he came down
once before that time, before the iron was
cut.
Q. Do you know where Blixt got the
iron to cut? A. I could not tell you
where he got the iron. I saw him come
and stick it under the boiler.
Q. Did you hear any conversation be-
tween Harry and Blixt? A. I did not; no.
sir; I heard them talking in low voices out.
in the other room, but I did not hear what
they said.
Q. That was the time previous to the
time Blixt cut the iron? A: Yes, sir.
Q. How long before you out the iron was
it that you heard them talk a little? A.
It was quite a little while, because Mr.
Blixt, he took the iron and put it under
the boiler about as quick as they come
down, come pretty near into the room to-
ther.
ge CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Have you ever been arrested in this
city? -
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
material.
". º you ever served in the work-
º
"...a to unless a conviction is shown.
objection sustained. Exception.
The Court—If you desire to make that
proof you will have to do it by the records.
Mr. Smith–Have you ever been convict:
ea of crime in this country? A. No, sºr
Q. Are you the same Hans Barlow that
was sentenced within a year in the work-
house in this city? A. No. sir.
Q. within two years? A. No, sir.





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 99.
u swear positively that you have
º . sentenced to the workhouse Yº-
in two years, will you, in this city? A.
I don't understand your question, that I
have been in the workhouse two years, do
->
*..."sº have you been sent up. to the
workhouse? A. Yes, I was. I don t know
what time it was. It was some time, I
guess, last spring or last winter—is that
mean?
º: ºt is it exactly. A. Well,
why don't you ask me questions so I can
hem? -
*"...". you talked these º
tions with Blixt with since that time?. A.
I have not talked with anybody particu-
larly. - -
ou talked with any one In re-
º ..". conversations with Blixt since
the murder? A. No, I have not that I
*"º. summoned you to come here?
A. the sheriff did; he got after me. ith
Q. Did you * º * over wil
---> o, sir, ld not. .
". º, ...; talked it with anybody?
A. Not except I made a few statements
*.*.* you make these? A. Y.
sir, I could not tell . what time; you ca.
innself.
*: º º whether it was this year
or. hotº A. It was in December, I *.
Q. When did you leave the city º i.
cember after the *...*.*. I thin
here near the - -
". º converse with any one ...
gard to your knowledge of ..". .
between Blixt and Harry Hayward *...".-
the 4th of December and the 15th * k
cember, '94? A. Yes, I guess I did. .
with Mr. Odell. I saw Mr. Odell a “.
of times and got to talking about the ma
*: I will ask you to repeat that *...*.
sation at the time that this rail was º
understood you to say that ºn. º:
*Oh, the devil, I did not Want the rai º
I only wanted it bent,” and that Blixt i.
in reply, “Very well, I will get another
one”—is that right? A. He did not say,
“very well;" he says, “I will get another
one,” and Harry says, took the rail up an;
said, “Never mind; maybe they will do.
He took them both out from that room.
Took both of them in his left hand, and
said, “I guess they will do.” He said º
before he started with them. Blixt fol-
* there anything said about pºin;
at that time? A. Not that I know of: I
r anything.
*"...”. ... you did not hear anx-
thing said in regard to paint, or anything
of that kind? A. No, sir; not to my knowl-
**s, what he wanted it bent for? A.
I did not know anything about what he
inted bent for. -
". º say anything about paint at
that time? A. No, sir. I asked Blixt what
he wanted the iron for, and Blixt says he
thought he wanted it for a door on a
string, so as to slide, have it fºr that slide.
He says, in a building like this there is a
place where the air goes up, and I think
he wants it for something like that, and I
said to Blixt. “Well, if he wants it for
that, there is holes in there and he can tie
a string to them, and that will do any-
how without painting it.”
Q. Nothing said about bending it or
painting it so it might be hung on the wall?
A. No, sir. -
Q. About what time was it that Saturday
night that you saw Harry down there and
heard this conversation; how late in the
evening was it? A. When he was there
the last time it was some after 5 o'clock. I
left and went away from there about half
past 6, from Mr. Blixt, and then he had
Come and took the iron.
Q. You saw Harry on the Tuesday night
before? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What time was that? A. Thanksgiv-
ing night I saw him there.
Q. Not Thanksgiving night–Tuesday
night before the 27th, what time was it? A.
That was, I guess, between 7 and 8 o'clock,
he was down there.
Q: What time did you get there? Didn't
you state that you got there about 8
o'clock on the night of the 27th and asked
where Mr. Blixt was 2 A. Yes, I was there
before 8 o’clock.
Q. Didn't you state that you got there
about 8 o'clock and asked where Mr. Blixt.
Was, or inquired after Mr. Blixt? A. Well,
sir, I was there, I think, before 8 o'clock.
Q. It was about 8 o'clock when you saw
Harry? A. It was about 8 o'clock, yes,
sir. I think it was.
Q. He came down into the basement on
the evening of the 27th about 8 o'clock? A.
Yes, sir, about that time; somewhere near
that time; I could not tell exactly, because
I did not have any watch with me. He did
not stay there.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION. .
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Were you sent to the workhouse for
drunkenness? A. No, sir, I was not drunk.
They charged me with drunkenness.
Objected to as immaterial. Overruled.
Q. You have been in the habit of drink-
ing some? A. No, sir; never was much in
the habit of drinking.
Q. I don’t quite understand your answer
to Mr. Smith's question as to the hour or
time that Harry came in and took the iron
and then walked out Saturday night—
what time was that, about? A. That Was,
I should think, between 5 and 6 o'clock:
somewheres near that, when he come and
took the iron.
Q. Now, with regard to the conversation
which you have spoken of between your-
self and Blixt after Harry had gone away;
are you sure that you heard nothing of
that conversation; that you have not con-
fused a conversation some part of which
you heard between Harry and Blixt with
a conversation between yourself and Blixt?
A. No, sir; I never heard a word what
they were talking about.
Q. You heard them talking before he
took the iron out, did you not? You have
given the conversation that occurred there?
A. Yes.
Q. He said he did not want it cut, but
wanted it bent, etc. Now, are you sure
that this remark about hanging the iron
up, that you spoke of, was not made be-
fore Harry went up? A. That I could not
tell you.
Q. You are not certain about that? A.
No, sir; I could not tell you what their
conversation was. That was the conver-


100
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT:
sation between me and Mr. Blixt about
hanging the iron.
Q. Are you sure that you did not hear
him say to Harry before he passed out or
Harry say to Blixt something about hang-
ing up the iron? A. Not at all.
Q. How long did that conversation last
between Harry and Blixt before he went
out? A. That was not very long. It
looked to me as though he was mad at
Blixt; kind of scolding him because he got
the iron cut.
Claus A. Blixt.
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Er-
win.
Q. Mr. Blixt, in your testimony here in
court you testified upon your direct exam-
ination here in court as follows: (Reads
from testimony about signing the note,
etc.) Now, that is your testimony here,
is it now? A. I don’t know whether it is or
not.
Q. Did you so swear here on your di-
rect examination 2 A. I will ask you
where that is stated; is that the second
statement?
Q. That is what you testified to here.
Can't you remember anything unless you
refer to a memorandum book?
remember when you ask me for the truth.
Q. Can't you remember anything unless
you refer to a statement or memorandum
book? A. I remember what is to be said
when I tell the truth.
Q. I am asking you as to what I read
here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you in your testimony say, “I
did not borrow or loan to her no $7,000.
That was only $2,000?” A. That is what I
said, yes, sir.
Q. Now, when you made your second
statement, or your first statement, you did
not say anything about that, did you? A.
I don’t remember whether I did or not. I
don’t remember just exactly what I re-
membered at that time and how much I
stated all about it
Mr. Nye-I think you had better put
these statements in evidence just as they
are. I will consent that they go in entire
just as they are. I know there are some
errors in them.
Mr. Erwin–Did you say so in your sec-
ond statement? A. I said about the money
I am sure.
Q. In your first statement did you state
so 2 A. I don’t remember how much I did
remember in my first statement. As much
as I remembered I stated.
Q. In your first statement you did make
such testimony; in your second statement
you did not? A. I did not mention any
money at all.
Q. You never said in your first statement
anything about Harry threatening to kill
your wife, Mrs. Blixt, did you? A. I don't
remember that I did, I don’t know that I
did not.
Q. You did not say anything about Harry
threatening to kill Mrs. Blixt in your sec-
ond statement, did you? A. Yes, I think
ºn
Q. What did you say at the time of your
second statement about Harry's threats to
kill Mrs. Blixt?
(Mr. Nye, explaining)–He wants to know
if in your second talk with Mr. Eustis you
explained to him how Harry threatened to
kill your wife.)
A. I think he did.
A. I can
Q. Now, I ask you if you made in your
first statement any mention that Harry told
you where to shoot or that he had asked
the doctor as to the best place to shoot? A.
I don't remember if I stated that in the
first statement, as much as I remember:
but I have stated it to the attorneys. -
Q. Now, did you make any such state-
ment, did you make any mention in your
second statement that Harry told you
where to shoot? A. I think I did.
Q. Or that he asked the doctor as to the
best place to shoot a person? A: I think I
did. I don’t say for certain, but I say I
made it in my statement before it was full-
filled.
Q. Did you make any mention in your
first statement of what you testify to here,
that Harry had said to you that he made
Miss Ging write him about the loan? A: I
don't think I did in the first statement.
Q. Did you make any mention of any
such thing in your second statement? A. r
have in Mr. Odell's statement.
Mr. Nye-Well, he means in his second
statement that you made to Mr. Eustis. A.
Well, I don’t know as I did. .
Mr. Erwin-Let me have that statement?
(Speaking to Mr. Odell.)
Mr. Odell-You can’t have any statement
from me.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I want to see whether
your client is telling the truth.
Mr. Nye-I really admire your nerve, ask-
ing an attorney for his private papers.
Mr. Erwin-I admire your star nerve, try-
ing to fall back on a statement that is in
the possession of his attorney. I just thought
I would call the bluff. -
The Court—You have no right to call upon
Mr. Odell for that statement. It is a private
paper of his own, and I will not allow it.
Q. I renew the question. You say you
made it in your attorney's statement which
I am not permitted to see? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, I will ask you whether you made
any mention of the fact that Harry had
told you he made Miss Ging write him
about the loan, in your second statement?
A. I don’t remember that I did.
Q. Did you make any mention in your
first statement that Harry told you that he
had told Miss Ging to say to Goosman,
“Don’t tell Harry I am out?” A. I don't
remember that I did.
Q: Did you make any mention of the
same subject matter in your second state-
ment? A: I have mentioned it in some of
my statements, but I don’t know whether
it was in the second statement or the state-
ment that I made to my attorney. -
Q. Did you make any mention of the
fact which you have testified to here be-
fore this jury, in your first statement, that
Miss Ging gambled and bought green
goods? A. I think I must have in my sec-
ond statement.
Q. Did you in your first statement, I
say? A. I don’t remember that I did.
Q. You testify here before this jury that
you made many remarks to Harry about
not killing Miss Ging, and what a bad-
thing that was, and you also testified that
your mind was in such a condition that you
did not know what you were about? A.
Not just exactly that. I did not know
what I was about, but my mind was in a
very poor condition.
Q. And you tried to lead this jury—to
show this court here— A. I did not try to
do anything, but that is the truth.


























OF THE HAYWARD
MURDER TRIAL. 101
Q. And you were partly excusable for
this act? A. Yes, sir, I think I was.
Q. Now, I will ask you if you ever made
any such excusatory declaration in your
Fº statement? A. No, sir, I don't think
d.
Q. Don't you know you never made any
such excusatory declaration in your sec-
ond statement? A. No, sir, I cannot say
for certain.
Q. Was not all of these explanations
about your mind and your condition in-
vented after you had retained an attorney
and taken the ride out with the sheriff
and your attorney? A. There has been no
invention made through any people to me.
Q. If those were not inventions, why
didn't you mention them in your state-
ments? A. Well, I have expressed myself
and told you why I did not mention it; I
could not remember it.
Q. Now, what day was it and where was
it that Harry told you to say, “J– C–
what big bills?” - -
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as a repeti-
tion, something that has been gone over a
good many times.
Mr. Erwin–That question may have been
gone over, but I want to call his attention
to the time and place, in justice to the
witness.
The Court–Very well, proceed.
Q. (Last question read to the witness.)
A. That was ign the office.
Q: Who was present? A. Well, he and
me only. Nobody was present but he and
ne.
Q. When was it that Harry told you that
Miss Ging had received $2,000 instead of
$7,000? A. I think it was the same day or
In the same evening at night.
Q. You can't tell whether it was in the
afternoon or night? A. Not for certain;
it might be both. He might have spoken
to me both in the afternoon and evening,
because he talked to me most all the time
before that time and after.
Q. You can’t tell when it was 2 A. No:
not the certain hour.
Q. Then he can only contradict you by
saying that he did not say so?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as imma-
terial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. You don’t give the time when it was
done, do you?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial. He
has answered that question three or four
times.
Q. Will you fix the time any more defi-
nitely than morning or evening? A. I
will fix no time.
Q. Were you told to say that? A. No;
I just told myself right now.
Q: What is your best memory, engineer,
as to the time? A: I have told the time
that I thought it was day, and if it was
not in the afternoon it was in the night,
in the evening.
Q. Have you got any memory whether
it was more in the afternoon than in the
evening? A. No, I have not; I know he
told me the same day before I went to bed.
Q. How do you know he told you the
same day? A. Well, because I know it;
before I went to bed he told me all about
his intentions to murder his girl.
Q. How do you know it and do not know
whether it was done in the afternoon or in
the evening? A. Well, I never paid any
attention to any time, because he was
speaking to me at all times.
This was the first time he ever told
you he was going to murder his girl? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And there is no way, no circum-
stance, no picture, nothing around the
ground, the place, the furniture, or any-
thing else of which you are reminded
when he told you this, that you can fix the
time? A. Yes, sir; there were three boil-
ers there and a steam pump; that is all
the pictures I have.
Q. Now, here was a horrible declaration,
was it not, that he was going to murdº
his girl? A. Well, I should say so.
Q. Well, I am glad to see Yolº smile?
A. I did not smile on that account—that I
Want to assure you.
Q. And the only associations of that hor-
rible story which you have are the three
boilers? A. That is the only witness we
had, he and me.
Q. Well, when Harry told you that hº
was going to kill his girl, where is the
picture that was around you when he told
you that, when that horrible idea was
placed upon your mind?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as a rep-
etition, and further, the witness does not
understand the counsel.
Mr. Erwin–well, in that case I will try
and make him understand.
The Court–He has stated what he knows
about it a half a dozen times, and I don’t
think you can get anything more out of
him.
Q. Have you got nothing on your mem-
ory which reminds you of the time? A. I
have just said what I know about the time,
and that is all I can answer.
Q. Now, I want to ask you if you have
nothing on your memory which tells you
about the time, how do you remember it
was that night or that day? A: Well, I
remember.
Q. Well, how? A. Because he had me to
witness the note.
Q. How do you remember the conversa-
tion was upon that day, or that night if
there is nothing to bring it to your mem-
ory as to whether it was day or night? A.
Well, because he wanted me to witness that
note, and that was the first time I ever
knew anything about it, and I was think-
ing how he could make such a plan, then
to go to work and murder his own girl;
that is why I thought about it; I think a
man would remember such a thing as that.
Q. Well, Mr. Blixt. I will ask you now
if this is not a pure fabrication of your
own? A. Not at all; that is true, and I
think Mr. Erwin knows it, too, that it is
true what I tell.
Q. I have refrained from telling what I
think about you, I want to give you every
opportunity to clear it up. Who was pres-
ent when Harry made threats to kill Mrs.
Blixtº A. It was only me and him.
Q: What time was that? A. That was
the 3d, the same day she was killed, the
same evening, between 6 and 7. That is
all I can give.
Q. Where was Mrs. Blixt? A. I don’t
know where she was; she was home, that
is one thing I know.
... When was it that Harry told you
where to shoot? A. That was some time





102
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
during the week before. I don't remember
day.
"..." º, was it that he told you he had
asked the doctor as to the best place to
shoot a person? A. Well, I don't remember
what day; it was during the week º
Q. Where was it that he * you that?
- lways in the basement. -
*o. *}. §. nothing in your memory so
that you can locate the day, or the º
or something nearer than during the ". -
A. There is no certain time more than
what I have told you. He was *...*
talking, every day. Both day and night.
Q. How do you know it was both day.
and night if you cannot locate the º Ol
the day? A. I can explain it if I am allow-
ed to.
- ked you why.
º t". º, "...". *" ºf because he
just kept my attention both *"...º.
night, and sometimes he was down er
in the forenoon, and kept me from º
work; he just held me at the bench stea. º:
I am giving you the truth now. I º
mention any hour, because he was there
*.*.*, on the fact that you can't
mention any time or place as to º, º
was in the basement and except to *..." .
it was in the basement, and the day of t º
week, I ask you whether this. º is *
a pure fabrication of your brain" A: *:
true, yes, I say it is true. I say it is true
what I am telling. I cannot bring any
witnesses in here, º”. .* was no
tween him an -
*...*.*.*. it Harry told you he º
made Miss Ging write him about the loan.'
Mr. Nye That has been asked once or
ºn No. 1 haven't asked that yet.
t–Well, go on.
º was it that Harry told you .
he had made Miss Ging write to him abou
the loanº A. That he wanted $2,000 to go
to the Hot Springs?
Yes.
º ºf . was in the first part of the
week; he came down and showed me the
letter. It was early in the morning. Proba-
bly between 8 and 9. I know it was *...*
before I had got my morning's work °.
I don't remember . day; it was in the
of the week.
". *. think—think, engineer? A. I
don't have to think about it at all, because
he wanted me to read his letter and I told
him I did not want to read his letter. -
Mr. Erwin. I ask if the letter is in the
possession of the county attorney written
by Miss Ging to Harry Haywººd. to show
that it was not penned until Thursday or
ºwness. Well, that might be.
Mr. Erwin. See this man's memory wheel
again.
º, Well, he showed me the
letter and wanted me to read it and I did
not want to read it, and he walked away
from me.
Mr. Nye. We will admit the dates, what-
h may be.
º Well, we will show that here-
after.
Now, what will you say if you find
that this letter which he showed you was
written on Thursday or Friday? A. What
I have said is true, that he showed the let-
ter to me during the week.
Q. You say it was the first part of the
week? A. I won't say, but it was some
time during the first of the week. I won't
say when he showed it to me.
Q. Well, is that your method of testify-
ing? A: I simply say he read the letter to
me and that was the first part of the week,
as I remember it.
Q. Well, who was present when he
showed you the letter? A. Nobody but me
and him. He didn’t want nobody around
when he showed me the letter.
Q. Then, you won't give him any time or
hour except it was the fore part of the
week? A. That is what I remember.
Q: When was it that Harry told you that
he had told Miss Ging to say to Goosman,
“Don’t tell Harry that I am out?” A.
That was the third time that she was go-
ing out—or the second time, rather. Harry
told me in the basement. He told me when
she was going out, before she was going
out.
Q: When was it; what day, what hour of
the day? A. I think probably that was on
Saturday, the second time she went out; I
don't know that he told me the same day,
but he told me that he had told her to tell
Goosman not to tell him. I think it was on
Saturday, but I can't tell for sure. But he
told me so.
Q. You cannot state any hour or day?
A. No, sir. That is the only way that I
know that he told me this, and that is all.
Q. And there was no one present?A.
Never anyone present when he wanted to
say anything to me. If he came down in
the basement to speak to me and there Was.
anybody there he took me up in his own
flat.
Q. Did it ever occur to you that when
you got Harry alone and did not give the
day or the hour or the circumstances, you
could make him say anything to you at
all? A: If I could remember the circum.
stances I would, but I can’t. -
Q. If the circumstances had shocked you,
or if you had taken any interest in the
matter, you could have remembered it? A.
Shocked me; I think it did. -
Q. But as it is, you did not? A: I did
not take any interest in his plans.
Q. When was it Harry told you Miss
Ging gambled and bought green goods? A.
He told me that during the week.
Q: What day? A. I don't remember. I
have told that a good many times and that
is the truth. He would always speak to
me in the basement, and when we could
not be alone in the basement he used to
say I should take a couple of monkey
Wrenches and go up in his flat, and I had
to do it.
Q: What time of day was it when he
told you that, was it light or dark? A. He
told me both daylight and dark. He spoke
to me at all times—I can't state when.
Q. Can you give me any circumstances
attending that by which I can see whether-
Yºu are telling the truth or not? A: I have
given you what I know.
Q. You don't know any more than the
fººt of the declaration? A: I have toid you
what I know and I ain't going to tell any-
thing I don’t know.
Q. Mr. Blixt, where were you on the
afternoon of Nov. 2 last? A. I think it.
was in the block.
Do you know where the zahner's
Hotel is at 405 Central avenue, on the East



OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 103.
side? A. I don’t know the place; I have
not been there for three or four years.
Q. Have you ever been over on the East
Side? A. Yes, sir; I have lived over there.
Q: Did you live in Zahner's Hotel, you
mean? A. No, I don't know where that
hotel is.
Do you know where 405 Central ave-
nue is? A. If I go there I will know it.
Q. Do you know a man by the name of
T. C. Cunningham, the proprietor of the
hotel? A. No, sir, I do not.
Mr. Erwin–Is Mr. Cunningham in the
room—Mr. Cunningham, will you please
stand up?
(Mr. Cunningham here stood up in the
court room.)
Q. Do you know him? A. No, sir, I do
not.
Q. You see him thoroughly, do you? A.
Yes, sir, I see him.
Q. On the afternoon of Nov. 2, 1894, did
you call at 405 Central avenue, at the Zah-
ner Hotel, in company with two men?
A. No, sir, I did not. No, sir, I never.
Q: Did you not go on Nov. 2, 1894, in
company with two men who registered
themselves as N. M. King and Albert
Lund, and say to Mr. Cunningham, the
gentleman who stood up before you here,
that you wanted to get a large front room
or two connecting rooms suitable for four
men? A. That is the biggest lie I ever
heard in my life. I never heard a story
gotten up so big in my life. That is al-
most enough to break down the house, I
think—that man had better go home.
Q. Is that your answer? A. That is my
answer.
Q: Well, now, I will ask you whether you
did or did not? A. I say I did not.
Q: What do you show so much temper
about that for? A. Why, because that is
the biggest lie I ever heard.
Q. If there was any mistake here, would
not your calm conscience seek to find it
out? A: My conscience is all right so far
as that question is concerned—that won't
hurt me a bit. I can prove wherever I
have been; I am satisfied of that.
Q. Do you feel it necessary to answer
by question when plainly put to you and
respectfully, in that way? A. I want to
answer you respectfully, but that was an
awful big question to ask me that way—the
worst one I ever heard, the biggest one I
ever heard.
Q: Did you go with Mr. Cunningham and
look over a front room, a single room?
A. I can swear I have never been in his
hotel and I never knew the man. I never
spoke to him.
Q: Did you tell him you would take the
room for three men at present for $10.50
a week? A. I never seen him or spoke to
him in my life.
Q: Did you tell him that when the fourth
man came it would be $13.50 a week—did
You so agree with him? A. You must go
and ask that man to get his man—I can’t
talk now, I am struck now.
The Sººt answer the question.
º º hat do you mean by that, that he
you? º º: ..". who says it was
it is me. - - e intends to say that
Q. But if he cannot get his man? A: I
º don’t know me and he never spoke
The Court–Well, now, wait. The attor-
ney will ask you proper questions and I
want you to answer them properly.
The Witness—All right, your honor.
Q. Did Mr. Cunningham question you as
to the employment of these men—what re-
sources they had 2 A. I never spoke to the
gentleman.
Q. And did you not tell him you were
running an engine, but the other men were
unemployed, but expected to get employ-
ment soon? A. I don't know anything
about what you read, Mr. Erwin. I never
spoke to him.
Q. Did you not tell him that while they
were out of employment you would see that
they had money to pay board with in ad-
vance? A. No, I never knew him, I never
spoke to him.
Q. Was not the man W. N. King a
smooth faced man, and did not he register
his name “W. N. King, Waverly?” A.
don't know Mr. King.
Q. Well, I ask you whether he did or
not? A. Well, I was not with him, and I
don’t know.
Q. After Mr. King had registered did you
not take the pen and register this name?
A. I don’t know anything about that.
Q. Well, I will see, I will give you a
chance to look at it. -
(Witness here shown register of Zahner's
Hotel, page bearing date Nov. 2, 1894, and
the same marked exhibit 4.)
A. I don’t know anything about it, I
never seen this book before.
Q. Show him exhibit 4, a hotel register
under a printed title of Friday, Nov. 2, and
the name "Arne Teller, Wallis City,” and
I will ask you whether you registered that
name? A. I have never seen the book be-
fore.
The Court—Answer yes or no.
A. No, sir. I never registered no name in
that book.
Q. After you had registered did not the
second man with you, the third in the
party, take the pen and register under-
neath the name of Arne Teller, the name
of Albert Lund 2 A. I don’t know any-
thing about that at all. I never registered
in that book. I don’t know the parties.
Q. After registering did not Mr. Cun-
ningham ask your party when you would
want the room, when you would occupy
the room, and did you not say, pointing to
Lund, that that man would move over
tonight and the other two would come
the next day, and that the fourth man was
attending school and would be here in
about two or three days? A. No, I never
said any such thing.
Q. Didn't Mr. Cunningham tell you that
he would expect you to pay in advance
every week, and did you not agree so to
do, you three men? A: I have never spok-
en to him.
Q. Did you not pay Mr. Cunningham $3
at that time? A. No, sir.
Did you not ask Mr. Cunningham
how you could get into the hotel at night?
A. No, sir.
Q. And did not Mr. Cunningham tell you.
that the hotel was open all night? A. I.
never spoke to him.
Q: And did you not then leave the hotel
with the men named W. N. King and also
Albert Lund? A. Never been there.
Q. And took a car—went out where there


104
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
was a street car going toward the city?
A. I never been to that hotel.
Q. At half past 5 o'clock on the 2nd day
of November, didn't you leave the hotel?
A. I did not.
Q. Was not the description of the man
Lund, who was with you, that he was a
man about five feet seven or eight inches
high, weight about 150 pounds, round, full
dark eyes, dark moustache, small nose,
well shaped, wore a dark bluish suit of
clothes, dark heavy overcoat with seams
sewed on the outside and with dark vel-
vet collar and cloth buttons, wore a num-
ber seven or eight coarse flat shoe, chewed
tobacco nearly all the time, smoked a
wooden pipe, wore a soft black hat with
a medium wide brinº A.. I don’t know
anything what Mr. Erwin says now.
Q. Did you ever know a man by the
name of H. F. Hays? A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. Did you know a man who was ac-
quainted with Lund or W. N. King, who
was about 5 feet 10 or 11 inches high, of
slender build, erect bearing, light com-
plexion and blue eyes, light curly hair,
his hair at one time was rather long, that
is about the 9th his hair was long and
Was cut about the 25th; he had a thin
light colored moustache, on the 9th he had
light chin whiskers shaved down to the line
of the moustache, and on the 28th day of
November a clean shaved chin and his
moustache chopped square at the ends,
rather sallow complexion without much
color—did you ever notice such a man as
that? A: I don't know any of these men,
Mr. Erwin.
Q: Did you know a man by the name of
H. F. Hays who was a street car con-
ductor? A. No, sir, I did not know Mr.
Hays.
The court here took a recess until 2
o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 7.
Claus A. Blixt.
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Er-
Win.
Q. In your second statement, when you
made your second statement, you were
shown two revolvers? A. Yes, sir, I men-
tioned two revolvers. Harry had two.
º º understand from counsel
- e Other revolver -
and is not here. was a Derringer,
Q. Now, when you went from the Ozark
on the night that you killed Miss Ging, you
say that you left the Ozark at half past 7,
you now say? A. I was not certain just
exactly to the minutes, I said.
You said you were 10 minutes walk-
ing down to the boulevard? A. Yes, sir, I
thought so. º
Q. You said you were three minutes talk-
ing with Miss Ging? A. I did not say that
I was talking with Miss Ging.
Q. You said that you and Harry and
Miss Ging were there about three min-
utes? A. Yes, sir, as far as I remember.
Q. And by the time you got in the buggy
and got turned around to go out Hennepin
boulevard, five minutes, was it? A. I don’t
know how many minutes it took.
Q. It took from three to five minutes,
didn’t it? A- I suppose so.
Q. Now, what time was it that you got
on the car at Lake street, or wherever
you got on the car; I think I am right, at
Lake street?
Mr. Hall–Twenty-seventh.
Mr. Erwin–At Twenty-seventh and Lyn-
dale, what time did you get on the car to
get back? A. I never knew, did not have
no time with me.
Q. How long did it take you to drive
out from the boulevard to the place where
you shot Miss Ging; where you got in that
buggy, how long did it take you from
where you got in the buggy with Miss
Ging, to drive to the place where you shot
her? A. I could not state no certain time.
The road was hard. I did not feel any jar
of the buggy.
Q. Well, now, your calculation about
how long did it take you to drive out there
to where you shot her? A. I could not
state for certain now, but I can guess?
but not that I say that would be just the
exact time; between 10 and 15 minutes or
something like that from the boulevard.
Q. How long did it take you to drive
back from where you shot her to where
you threw her out? A. That I could not
tell neither for certain, but I think it was
probably 15 minutes, or something like
that.
Q. How long did it take you to drive
from where you dumped her out, threw
her out, to where you left the horse? A: I
don't know; about six or seven minutes or
eight; something like that. I drove fast
at a good trot; I don't know which ; it
might be the difference of three or four
minutes. -
Q. After you got out of the wagon and
let the horse go, how far did you walk be-
fore you came to the point where you
talked with the flagman? A. That was
about two blocks to Lyndale, and then
from Lake street over there, I think it
is two blocks.
Q. You walked four blocks? A: Yes, sir.
Q. How long did it take you? A. That
I could not tell, I am sure. Truly I could
not pick out, because that might be wrong;
I walked a common walk about four
blocks.
Q. You would not attempt to fix any time
for that? A. No, sir, I could not; in such
a case it would not be right:
Q. After you walked that far how long
before you talked with the flagman? A:
I went right on to the flagman.
Q. How long were you talking to him?
A. I was about a minute or so. that
1.
". ºnal did you go in there for 2 A.
I don't know what I went in there for;
just simply because the car was going the
other way; and I went in there to wait.
Q. Did you say these words, “Where is
the Swede flagman?” A. Yes, where is the
Swede fellow who used to be here. He
said he was there in the day time. Then I
out again.
*...*. . did you wait there for a
car? A. I did not wait there, I walked
right along to Twenty-eighth, and º
around and looked for a gaº
º: did not see him; so I walked an-
other block down to Twenty-eighth street.
Q. How long did you wait for that car?
A. I did not wait at all; when I did not see
any I walked around Twenty-seventh; I
did not wait at Twenty-eighth; I walked
right along to Twenty-seventh, when I





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 105
topped to look back, and then I seen the
º”. coming, about a block and a half
*Then you got on the car? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What time did you get on the car?
A. That I don't know. I could not tell
you what time I got off that car at Wash-
ington and Hennepin.
Q: What time was it that you got off
at washington and Hennepinº A. That I
don't know neither; I didn't have no time.
Q: What time did you get on the Bloom-
ington car? A. I don't remember what
time it was. I asked the switchman what
time it was I left there; he told me some-
where—I don't remember exactly—25 min-
utes to 9 or 25 minutes past 8. I don't re-
member.
Q. Now, you came in from Twenty-sev-
enth street on the 8:30 car? A. I don’t
know; I could not say anything about that
because I did not have any time.
Q. Then you cannot tell us what time
you left on the Bloomington car? A. No,
I cannot tell any more than what I asked
the switchman.
Q. You got off at Franklin avenue? A.
Twelfth avenue south.
Q. Walk? A. Yes, sir
Q. How many blocks? A. Sixteenth ave-
nue, I think, is Bloomington, if I ain’t mis-
taken.
Q. Where did you walk from there? A.
I walked off between Twenty-second and
Twenty-third streets. That is about a
block and a half: about two blocks or
something.
Q. Now, you made no stops any more
than was necessary for you to get cars on
this whole trip? A, No, sir, no more than
I talked to this switchman.
Q. Were you not hurrying around the
city to meet some body who had met you
on the other side of Lake Calhoun, and
who was to come in this way? A. No, sir,
never.
Q: What did you hurry around the south
part of the city for? A. I was going up
to see a fellow by the name of Claus
Bloom. He owed me a dollar and 15 cents.
Q. You had just killed a woman, and
you were hurrying from the scene of that
murder, and what caused you to take that
swift trip around to the south part of
this city? A. I did not make any swift
trip.
Q. When you made up your mind to go
around and see this man with a dollar
fifteen? A: I told my wife the week be-
fore I was going to see him.
Q. After you killed her, you say it shock-
ed you and your mind was stunned? A.
Yes, sir, and before.
Q. When do you recollect having thought
about going around to see this man about
the $1.15, after you shot the woman? A.
Just simply kept staying on the car, that
is all. Of course, I made up my mind that
I was going to see him.
Q. For what reason did you go around
there that night? A. Because I was out,
that is all.
Q: Did you make up your mind to go
around there when you were away off
where the flagman was, up on Twenty-
seventh street? A. When I had the car I
thought I might as well go around because
I had made up my mind.
Q: Did you make it up before you went
in that car? A. I had that in mind when
I went out, that I was going to see him.
Q. What was your object in asking for
that Swede switchman? A. Nothing at
all; only I knowed him before.
Q. What did you want to say to him?
A. Nothing at all; I did not have anything
to say to him, because the car was not
there, and I thought I would go in and
speak to him.
Q. Let me get through my question. Did
you have any other reason for coming
around from that part of the city at
Twenty-seventh street away round to
Twenty-second street south, except to see
this man that owed you $1.15? A. No,
sir, I did not have any other reason.
Q. Describe the house and all about it.
A. Well, there are two families live in it,
one down stairs and one up stairs. I can-
not describe the house any more.
Q. Which way was the gable, to the
front, or what kind of a house was it—
describe it generally? A. Up stairs?
Q. You are an engineer; you can de-
scribe how a house looks on the outside?
A. It is a common frame house. I don’t
know whether you might call it two full
stories, but one family lives up stairs, and
the other down stairs. I don’t know the
color; I think it is a dark color, brown, or
something like that.
Q. Did it set close to the street, or back
of the street? A. Close to the street; close
to the sidewalk.
Q. Did it have any porch on 2 A. Yes
sir; single porch; towards the sidewalk, aii
over, right across the house.
Q. Any steps to go up on the porch? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How many? A. I don’t remember how
many; two or three–two steps.
Q. You never lived there? A. No, sir, but
I went over there and got a dollar from
Claus Bloom.
Q: What did he owe you $1.15 for? A.
He owed me from the beginning $4, but I
had it all except $1.15.
Q. You had not been to see him since
the spring before? A. No, sir
Q. Which side of the street was the
house? A. Coming from Frankin it is on
the right hand side.
Q. Now, this night did you go in the
house? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you knock at the door? A. Yes,
at the back door. He always goes in from
down below, and the way out to the kit-
chen. I went around the house, through a
little alley, about a rod between. I rapped
at the door.
Q. Anybody come to the door? A. No,
sir, nobody came.
Q. What time of night was this? A. That -
I don’t know, because I did not look at
any time.
Q. How did you rap? A. Rapped the same
as anybody else; rapped loud with my
hand.
Q. Did you see anybody about the house
at all that night? A. No, sir.
Q. How many times did you rap? A.
About five or six times; I rapped pretty
loud at all times.
Q. How long were you there rapping? A.
Oh, probably a minute and a half or so.
Q. Well, when no one came to the door
what did you do? A. I went down stairs
and went home again.
Q. Now, before you got out of the yard


106 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
did you see anybody? A. No, sir, I did
not.
Q. Was there any light in the house? A.
No, sir, it was dark.
Q. Dark downstairs? A. Yes, sir; I did
not know; I was thinking he had moved,
and he had moved, but there was a party
living there, because I went there the next
day again; I don’t know whether it was
Tuesday or Wednesday I went there again.
Q. Now, didn’t you go there the next
Tuesday or Wednesday for the purpose of
ascertaining how the house looked, and
what people were there, so you could say
you were there the night of the murder?
A. No, sir, I did not; no such thing.
Q. What did you go there Tuesday or
Wednesday for? A. Because I wanted him
to pay me what he promised me that he
should pay me, and I wanted $1.15.
Q. When did he promise to pay you? A.
I told him in the winter, in the spring, that
I should wait a long time, and then I went
down and tried to see him at the place
where he worked, but I could not meet
him, because the man in the office would
not allow anyone where he worked, so I
had to come to his place.
Q. Have you ever been there since? A.
No, sir, I have not been there since.
Q. Have you written him any letters
since? A. No, sir, I have not.
Q. Paid no attention to it? A. Could not
because I was arrested the next week.
Q. What time Tuesday or Wednesday did
you go around to this house? A. I don’t
know what time; I think it was between 7
and 8 in the evening I was there.
Q. Did you knock then 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who came to the door? A. A lady.
She was light complexioned. I don’t know
her age. She was a middle-aged woman.
Q. Now, after you had been around at
this house and knocked on the night of the
murder, when you came back how far did
you walk after you left this house?A. I
went right back to the street car again.
The same way that you came? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you have to wait there
for a street car? A. The car was coming
when I got close, and I had to run to get it.
Q. You went on that road how far? A.
Down to Washington and First avenue. I
got off the car then and went down jo Sec-
ond avenue south and Washington. Be-
cause my watch had stopped—I noticed my
watch had stopped when I got on that car.
I tried to shake it and start it, but it would
not start.
Q. How long were you down there? A.
I went down to Second and Washington;
then I met a man in front of John Swan-
son’s saloon.
Q. Before you went to the jeweler's? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. What man was that? A. His name
was Carlson.
Q. Where is he now? A. I do not know.
Q. What was his first name? A. Carl-
son is all I know.
Q. Carlson 2 A. Yes.
Q. Describe him. A.
—that is all.
Q. What did he look like? A. He is a
small man about my size.
Q. Go on with the description.
is all I can tell you.
Q. Describe the color of his hair. A.
He has dark hair.
He is a small man
A. That
Q. What complexion? A. Complexion
like you, probably—I could not tell you.
Q. What mustache or whiskers has he?
A. He has a mustache. About the color of
mine, a little darker. I don’t know his busi-
ness; I got acquainted with him in Cedar
avenue, in my saloon. He never told me
what he was doing.
Q. Since the time that you kept saloon?
A. No, sir. Not for a couple of years.
Q. Do you know where he lives and
where he works? A. No, sir.
Q. How many times did you see him in
your saloon? A. Not very often. Yes, he
called himself Carlson, that is all I know.
I met him coming out of John Swanson's
saloon.
Q. Anybody who was at your saloon with
him at any time that you know? A. I don’t
know anybody that knows him more than I.
do
Q. All the words that passed between you
and Carlson were you said “How do you
do?” A. Yes, sir, that is all I said. “Hello,
Blitz,” he said.
Q. What did you say? A. I said “Hello,
Carlson;” that is all. “I have been in here
getting a glass of beer.”
Q. How long did you wait at Swanson’s
saloon? A. I could not tell you just ex-
actly, ten or fifteen minutes probably;
something like that. We were shaking a
couple of games of dice, and I know John
Swanson’s brother well.
Q. You started down to leave your watch
at the jeweler's? A. Yes, I started down.
Q. Who was tending bar? A. His brother,
Axil Swanson.
Q. What time did you get in there? A.
I could not tell sure; about 9 o'clock. I
could not tell because it might not be right.
Q. What other men were with Carlson?
A. Nobody but himself, I met at the door.
Q. Did you go in 2 A. Yes, sir. I went in.
Q. Did he go in 2 A. No, sir, he went
home.
Q. Who proposed shaking dice, you or
Axil? A. Axil said “You want to shake
dice?” I said yes.
Q. Where did you go from there? A. I
went down to the jewelry store.
... Where is that? A. That is in the
next block, 209.
Q. That is below Second avenue? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. You went in there and left your
watch? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long were you in there? A. I was
in there long enough to leave my watch.
Did you notice the time in there—
there are clocks and everything in that
place? A. Yes, sir, I know the clocks but
I did not look at any time, I told him my
watch had stopped and he took it and gave
me a check and told me that the man
would be back tomorrow and fix it; the
repairer was not there, because it was late.
Q. Didn’t he tell you the safe was locked
up? A. No, sir, he did not speak about
any safe to me.
Q. Don’t you know it was after the time
the safe was locked up at 10 o'clock? A.
No, sir, that was not mentioned, any
such thing to me. I could not say what
time it was at all; because I don't remem-
ber any time.
Q. Who was the man that you saw there?
A. I saw two men at the jewelry store. I
did not know them at all, only that I seen
them in the store.
























OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
º
Q. You mean two men beside the pro-
prietor? A. No, sir, there were two men
inside the counter. They were small,
fleshy fellows.
Q. Where did you go from there, Mr.
Blixt? A. Direct home.
Q. Came out and walked up Hennepin
and Washington? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. And took a car and went up to the
ozark or within a block of it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go past the Ozark? A. No,
sir; I got right off at Thirteenth.
Q. You went in which way? A. I always
thought that I went in from Hennepin, the
first entrance; I always remember that I
went in from Hennepin, the first entrance.
Q. You always thought so? A. Yes, I
always thought that I remembered that.
That is as near as I can remember, that I
went in from the first entrance.
Q. Has anybody said that you went in
differently? A. No, sir; that is to my
knowledge that I remember. I have thought
I always did. I could not say for certain,
but I always thought that I went in from
Hennepin.
Q. Didn't you say yesterday you did not
know which way you went in 2 A. I don’t
remember that I can swear to which door,
but I always remember that I thought I
came from Hennepin.
Q. Where is the first place that you re-
member being after you went in? A. After
I went in I went into Harry's apartment.
Q. Is that the first place that you remem-
ber being in? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't Mr. Nye ask you day before
yesterday where you went into the block
upon your return; which entrance did you
go in at, the Hennepin or Thirteenth
street entrance, and did you not answer,
“I cannot swear whether I went in on the
Hennepin entrance or Thirteenth en-
trance” A. Yes, that is what I said.
Q. Do you swear to that same thing
now? A. Yes, sir; I swear to that, that I
could not possibly for certain swear that I
went in on Hennepin or Thirteenth.
Q. How did you get into Harry's room?
A. I got in through the door. Both doors
were open. I don’t remember whether I
went in through the kitchen or the first
door.
Q. Now, this is very important. A. Yes.
Q. Now, which is Harry's flat; this one?
(Indicating on plan.) A. No, the “A” flat.
Q. How many rooms in that flat? A.
Seven.
Q. You haven’t got any memory now,
whether you went in that door, the hall
door, or the kitchen door? A. To state
the truth, I could not promise; as I say, I
always thought that I remember that I
come through that door.
Q. Which door? A. From Hennepin; I
came in from Hennepin, and went in the
hallway, but I don’t remember for certain.
Q. Now, you say both doors were open?
A. Yes, sir, he told me he would leave them
both open. -
Q. How do you know both doors were
open? A: I know that he said that both
doors were open, because he said he was
going to leave them both open.
Q: Did you have any keys to open these
doors? A. No, sir; never.
Q. Did you hear your wife's testimony
that the doors were locked; locked them-
selves when they were shut, always? A. I.
know that, yes.
Q. Now, you cannot tell which door you
went in, but you will swear you went out
the kitchen door? A. Yes, sir.
Q. If you went in the kitchen door you
don’t know anything about whether that
door was locked or not? A. No, sir, only
what he told me, that he should leave the
doors both open.
Q. Was there any way you could get in-
to that flat from this hall except through
one of these doors? A. No, not that I
know of.
Q. If you went in there at all that night
you went through one of these doors? A.
Yes, sir, I did. No, sir. I don’t remember
which door I went into.
Q. Do you remember which room you
went into first? A. Into the bathroom.
Q. How did you get into the bathroom?
A. The door was open.
Q. To what does the door of the bath
room open? A. The door opens to the batº
room—that is, the door I went through.
Q. The bathroom door opens into a hall?
A. A little hall.
Q. How long is that hall from the
bathroom door to any other room? A. The
room from that door here, there is a little
hall here, and it goes right in there.
Q. Now, the bathroom door opens into
a little hall 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. See if we understand each other per-
fectly, that door in opening, if you are
in the bath room, and go to open the door
you pull the door to you in the bath room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And step right out of that door into
the hall? A. Yes.
Q. And do not step out of that door in-
to the sitting or bed room, or into the
kitchen 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Did you know from having been
there? A. I had been there a couple of
times. I was in there helping my wife to
sweep it out and clean it out.
Q. Have you been in there since that
night? A. No, sir.
Q. What time were you there before that
night? A. I was in there a couple of
times when Hayward called my attention
to come up there.
Q. When you went into the bathroom was
the light lit? A. No, sir, I lit the light
with a match.
Q. What did you go into the bath room
for? A. I had to change the cartridges,
as he told me.
Q. What did you go into the bath room.
for? A. I wanted to go in and have a
light, and there was a light there.
Q. Why in the bath room?
the same as any other place.
Q. You were going in the bed room to
put the revolver? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why didn't you go into the bedroom
to light the light? A. If I went in there
you might have asked me why I went in
there just the same.
Q. That is right,
you.
Q. Then you don't remember which room
you went into until you went into the
bathroom? A. I know I went in the bath-
room, yes, Sir.
Q. That is the first room you remember?
Q. You were going in there for the pur-
A. Just
I might have asked



108
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
pose of putting a revolver under the pillow
in the bedroom? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, look at this map very carefully.
A: I see it. -
Q. You see that door opens into the
kitchen from the bathroom? A. No, that
is not the bathroom. -
- What room is that? A. That is a
kind of bedroom.
Q. That is a girl’s room? A. I don’t
know; I guess so.
Q. That is marked “girl's
Yes, sir.
Q. Where is the bedroom? A. Over
there; that is an open room, but that is
where he had his bed.
Q: Why didn’t you go into his room in
order to put your revolver in there? A. I
don’t know why.
Q. Have you any other reason to go in
the bathroom; had you any reason to go in
the bathroom? A. No, sir.
Q. None whatever? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, I will see—Now, Adry occupied
this flat? A. Yes, I guess so.
Q. You put yourself in that bedroom and
lit that light in that bathroom because
over here is the transom through which the
light can shine into Adry's room and Adry
can corroborate you if you do that? A.
No, sir, there is no light from that flat into
that.
Q. There is no light from this flat to
that? A. No, sir.
Q. You are sure you did not go in for
that purpose? Yes, sir.
Q. You are sure there is no light there
that will show you? A. There is nothing
but the wall, the tight wall.
Q. You had no other cause to go in the
bathroom than what you have stated? A.
No, sir, that is all.
Q. Now, when you went into the bed-
room, after you went into the bathroom,
what did you do? A. I had to change the
cartridges.
Q. What did you do? A. I went into
his bedroom and put it under his pillow.
Q. What did you do in the bathroom?
A. I changed the cartridges.
Q. What cartridges did you change? A.
He gave me six of the common size that he
used that belonged to the revolver.
Q. You changed six common kind of car-
tridges? A. Yes, sir, that belonged to the
revolver.
Q. For what other kind? A. The kind
that he had in before was some extra
cartridges that he had bought on purpose,
he said, he told me.
Q. What was the difference in the car-
tridges; you took them out? A. I never
looked.
Q. You took out the cartridges, the five
that were left in the revolver and the emp-
ty one? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you had the other six to put in?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Tell the jury what the difference was
in them. A. He said they were extra long.
Q. You never looked at them? A. No,
sir.
Q. Did you notice any difference between
them? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. How did you take the cartridges out
of the revolver? A. I got the cylinder out
by jerking that pin out; there is a little pin
under the barrel.
Q: What did you do with these five you
room” º A.
took out? A. I took them down to the
basement—I throwed them in the fire.
Q. Wait a minute before you get down
to the fire. What position were you in, in
the bath room when you took these cart-
ridges out; standing up or sitting down?
A. Standing up. The five cartridges I put
in my pocket. -
Q. Where did you get the six you put
in? A: I had them in my hip pocket right
there.
Q. Now, had you washed your hands
from the time that you killed the woman
until that minute? A. No, sir.
Q. Had not? A. No, sir, I had not. I
had carried that revolver from the time
that I shot the Woman until the moment
that I got in the bath room, in my right
hand pocket.
Q. Now, you put the revolver where, un-
der the pillow? A. Right on a mattress un-
der the pillow.
Q. How long were you in there? A. Just
enough to put the revolver there. Less
than a minute.
Q. Which door do you say you went out,
the kitchen door? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Shut 'the door? A. Yes, sir.
went down stairs in the basement.
Q. Who was down stairs in the base-
ment? A. Charlie, my brother-in-law. He
was taking care of the machinery.
Q. You went right through the rooms-
did you say anything to your brother-in-
law? A. No, sir, not that I remember.
Q. Was your wife up or in bed? A. She
WaS up.
Q. Did you go out of your bed room
again before you went to bed? A. Yes, sir,
I did.
Q. How long after you went into your
bed room? A. Just enough to go into my
bed room, and then I went right out again
and put the cartridges in the furnace.
Q. Where was your brother-in-law? A-
He was out there.
Q. He saw you? A. No, sir, when I went
out there he went away somewheres—I
don’t know whether he went in the closet
or not or in any room. Because when I
threw the cartridges in that fire there was
nobody around.
Q. Now, what was burning in that fire-
a deep bed of coal running the furnace?
A. Not very deep.
Q. Had a good fire? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You threw these five cartridges right
in on the fire? A. Yes. They cracked a lit-
tle bit, not very loud.
Q. How long after you threw them?
A. Not half a minute, just enough for
me to turn right around and I heard it.
Q. Don’t you know where he was when
you did that? A. No, sir, I don’t; I think
he was in my room.
Q. What was he doing in your room? A.
We always had the door open to go in and
out.
Q. Mr. Blixt, did you ever handle any
green goods? A. Never, only what Mr.
Hayward told me.
Q. You know what green goods mean?
A. Only what he told me—that is all I
know.
Q. It means counterfeit money? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you ever handle any? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever pass any? A. Accord-
ing to his story I did. -
Then I



















OF THE HAYWARD
MURDER TRIAL. 109
Q. You never belonged to the gang your-
self? A. Never in my life.
Q. That word “gang” you got from Har-
ry, did you? A. Yes. - -
Q. In your green goods experience did
you ever See anybody else except Harry?
A. That is all.
Q: Did you talk with Miss Ging at any
other time than when you had that ride
with her? A. No, sir; never.
HARRY AND HIS GANG.
Q. Don't you belong to a gang of coun-
terfeiters and counterfeit shovers? A. I
never did in my life.
Q. Wasn't you compelled to commit this
murder by a gang of counterfeiters?A. By
Harry Hayward, he said he was a coun-
terfeiter himself. He is the only one that
had anything to do with me.
Q. Wasn't it arranged by you and others
to kill and murder Miss Ging on the other
side of Lake Calhoun ? A. Never.
Q. Didn't you have confederates with
you present at the time you killed Miss
Ging assisting you to kill her on the other
side of the lake about the place where you
said you shot her, a mile from the place
where you shot her, further around the
lake? A. None but her.
Q. Well, he was not there you said? A.
Well, he is the one that had the dealing
with me.
Q. Didn't you or some of your confed-
erates strike this woman upon the head
with a portion of a “T” rail? A. I did
not have any confederates. Didn't have
none but him. He is the only one.
Q. And didn't you draw her from where
you met these confederates around the
lake back to the place where her body was
found, with her skull broken, and her nose
broken, and didn’t she lie down upon the
buggy, sit so that as she lay down the
blood pool on the right hand side of the
seat was formed ºf A. Nobody was with
me but myself, I was alone all the time.
Q. Did not you or some one with you
lift the woman out of the wagon and find-
ing her still alive and breathing there shot
her? A. Never, none but myself, I was all
alone. -
Q. Did you hear any shot that night while
you were driving or riding, except the one
you made? A. Yes, sir, I heard a shot. I
heard one shot besides mine, right in front
of me, before she was shot. Not close to
me.
Q. How far from you? A. Oh, according
to the sound 60 or 70 rods, or 80 rods, a
half mile from me.
Q. Wasn't that poor woman shot at the
point where the body was found and not a
mile beyond? A. No, she was shot just as
I have described, just as I have told you.
Q. Now, you heard one shot just before
you shot. How far apart were those two
shots? A. Oh, not over five minutes.
Q. Didn’t the poor girl scream in between
the two shots? A. No, sir, she never said
a word about it, nor I neither.
Q. Didn't you and your confederates leave
your clothes around or upon that side of
the lake where she was beaten? A. There
was no one but me, I want to make you
understand that, Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Blixt, are you not now afraid of
a gang that you have been operating with?
A. I have never been operating with any.
Q. Well, are you not now afraid? A. I.
would not dare to go out of doors.
Q. You are afraid of a gang? A. Yes, sir,
his own gang. -
Q. You say it is Hayward's gang? A.
Yes, sir. -
Q. And you would not dare to go out of
doors? A. No, sir. I would be afraid I
Would be killed.
Q. And you would not dare to go out
of doors if you got out of this, for a long
time? A. If I ever did, I would not, sir.
Q. Do you recollect a man coming up
to the Ozark Flats by the name of Hays
and asking you how to run a boiler? A.
No, sir, never. - -
Q. Did a man by the name of Lund or
Hays know anything about you getting
a “T” rail in the Ozark? A. No, sir.
Q. Can't you tell me where that piece
of “T” rail is? A. No, sir, Harry can tell
you.
Q. Well, why didn't Harry tell you, if
he told you all about these other things?
A. I asked him where it was when he came
back and I asked him, too, what the girl
said about it, and he said he told her he
should leave it on the road as a road mark.
Q. He didn’t tell you where? A. No, sir,
so the other gang could see he had been
out, he says.
NEVER LIVED IN DARCOTA.
Q. Did you ever live in Dakota.” A. I.
never lived in Dakota.
Q: Did you ever have a brother who
was supposed to be dead in Dakota ? A.
I never heard of it. I have got a brother
in Dakota that runs a threshing machine,
but I never heard that he was dead.
Q. Then you did not know that he was
supposed to be dead and got an adminis-
tration upon his estate and he turned up
alive afterwards? A. No, sir, I never
heard of that
Q. Now, at the time you made your first
confession, first statement, you stated that
}º did not kill Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir,
id.
Q. Well, is it not true that you did not
shoot Miss Ging, but somebody else shot
her? A. No, sir, I did shoot her.
Q. Well, is it not true that she was al-
most dead when you shot her? A. No,
she was alive, she was more alive—she had
more life than I have got now.
Q. Your first statement then that Harry
or some one else brought you a dead
woman was not a true statement? A. It
Was not true.
Q. Was it not true so far as the facts
was concerned that you did not kill her,
but somebody else did kill her and brought
her to you? A. No, sir; it is true that I
killed her.
Q. Did you have any other revolver—you
ever see any other revolver that looked like
Harry’s around the Ozark? A. No, sir,
I never saw any other revolver than the
little one he has got, that is all.
Q. How long ago was it that you recov-
ered your full memory? -
Mr. Nye-Well, I think that has bee
asked several times. He said he was grad-
ually getting better, and that it was com-
ing back to him by degrees, that he re-
membered more and more every day of his
life.
The Court—Yes, that question has been
asked a number of times.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, your honor, but it has
never been answered. -




-
10 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
The Court—Yes, he has stated that it was
improving gradually right along.
Mr. Erwin–I ask him now when it was
that he got his full memory that he has
got now, Can you answer that question,
Mr. Blixt? A. Shall I answer that?
Mr. Nye-Yes.
A. Well, I have the memory I have got
now for a couple of weeks, and am getting
better all the time; my head has been
clearer every day, and growing better
right along.
Q. You can't tell me where I could go
and get the other piece of T rail? A.. I
wish I could. I would in a minute.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I think
that is all the questions I want to ask Mr.
Blixt now, under my present information.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Blixt, you said at the police
station that your mind was mixed up and
you were sick?A. Yes, sir, I said that.
Q. Explain to the court and jury more
fully how you felt and what your con-
dition was. A. I say that I had a bad
headache all the time and that I had a
pain here in my stomach, and I had the
diarrhea for about a week and a half from
the time that I got this whisky.
Q. You think it was from the whisky?
A. Yes, sir, that is what I thought.
Q. Explain to the court and jury why
you thought so? A. From the way I felt,
because I was almost a wreck before.
Q. You said that the bottle was a half
pint bottle? A. Yes, Sir.
Q. with the label on it and a screw
cover? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I want to show you at this time a
bottle of liquor and ask you how it com-
pares in looks to that bottle? A. It looks
just exactly like that.
(The bottle identified by witness marked
exhibit J.) -
Q. It looks just like it, you say: that 1S,
the bottle and the label? A. Yes, sir, just
exactly like it.
Q. You also stated in reply to one of
Mr. Erwin's questions that you had felt
bad—or unnatural, at least—for a long time
before? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you mean by that? A. Well,
I was nervous and scared; I lost my appe-
tite and sleep for a month before that,
since he started with me.
Q: Why was that? A. Well, because I
did not know how to get out of this; I was
afraid and nervous.
Q. To get out of what? A. What Hay-
ward had told me, what he wanted me to
do with that fire, and what he Wanted me
to do with other things; he said if I said
anything about it I would go to prison for
10 years.
3. was there anything outside of the
fire that led you to be nervous? A. Well,
yes; he had told me about people, and what
he wanted me to do, and it kept growing
worse and worse with me until I got ner-
vous, and lost all my appetite and sleep.
Q. Do you know whether your wife ob-
servaa your condition or not? A. Yes, sir,
she did.
Q. Did you in any way attempt to con-
ceal it from her? A. That is what I did
ºn I could. I tried to hide it so she could
not see it.
Q. The only gang you ever knew any-
thing about was Harry and his gang that
he had mentioned to you? A. Yes, I knew
him, but not the others of his gang that
he had spoke to me about.
Q. But he was the only one of the gang
that you knew? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You stated that he had stated once or
twice at least that there were 20 in his
gang? A. Yes, sir; I remember once he
told me there was 20 in his gang.
Q. You said you were not familiar with
maps? A. No, I am not.
Q. But your recollection with regard to
the walk from the Ozark flats down to
Kenwood boulevard was that you went
about two blocks below where there was a
turn or angle in the avenue? A. Why, I
remember this, I remember where I was
and I can show you any time you take me
down there; I never had been down there
before.
Q. And as a matter of fact you have
shown these men the place two or three
times? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the one particular mark by which
you go is the vacant lot? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And a path that cuts across the vacant
lot? A. Yes, sir, and there is a board
fence that stands there close by, that is
why I remember it.
Q. You pointed it out, did you not, to
some persons where the buggy was, as
near as you could º A. Yes, sir.
Q. And where you turned? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And to whom did you point that out?
A. Well, to the sheriff, Mr. Ege.
ERWIN TALKS IMPEACHMENT.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to ask the wit-
ness one question for the purpose of im-
peachment, if the court will allow me,
whether at this point, where he says he
met Harry Hayward and Miss Ging, he did
not meet another man and not Harry Hay-
ward and Miss Ging?
Mr. Nye-We have no objection; you may
ask it.
Mr. Erwin–I want to ask you whether
at the same time you now swear you met
Miss Ging and Harry Hayward, and at
the same place where you pointed out and
described in your answer to the question
of Mr. Nye, you did not meet Miss Ging
and another man and not Harry Hayward?
A. No, I met Harry; that is all.
Mr. Nye-You tried several times in your
way, as I understood you, to explain to
Mr. Erwin how you came to say in your
confused condition of mind to the police,
the first time, that Harry killed the wom-
an and took her to you and you drew her
away? A. Yes, sir, I did. I tried to explain
that.
Q. I would like to have you try it again
to me. A. Yes, I wanted to tell the court
that it was not my plan to get away from
it, but it was simply that I was to do the
killing and he was to take her away after
death, that he would have time to come up
town, that is what I wanted the court to
understand that it was not my plan, but
it was his plan—that is true and I admit
that.
Q. Then you told a part of a false state-
ment, and when this matter came to your
mind you told the truth? A. Yes, sir.
And very shortly afterwards you
called for the officers and told that as it
wasº A. Yes, sir.
Q. As it came more clearly to your mind
|
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OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAT. 111
and to your conscience? A. Yes, sir, I could
have told them more if they had asked for
more, but they did not.
Q. All the statements that you made to
the officers were made under excitement,
somewhat? A. Yes, sir; I was a regular
k.
". And can you recall anything when
these statements are read from the manu-
script here to you? A. No, sir.
Q. And you don't know that they put it
down right? A. I don't know, but there
are a few statements that are not right.
Q. After you made those statements,
were they ever read over to you to see if
they were correct? A. Never, no, sir.
Q. was your attention ever called to
them, or did you ever see them, until Mr.
Erwin questioned you about them? A: No,
sir, that is the first time.
Q. And you don't now pretend to say
whether they are absolutely correct or not,
that is, as they have got it on the paper?
A. I found that when Mr. Erwin read it to
me there were a few remarks there that
were not correct, that I never said.
Q. You did not pay particular attention
to any time on the night of the 3d of De-
cember? A. No, I could not, because I
had my watch on me, but she had stopped.
Q: Did you take any note whatever of
the length of time it took you to go from
where the buggy was out to where you
shot the woman? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. And upon reflection, is it not your
judgment that it must have been some 15
minutes? A. From the time. I took her
away and the time I shot her?
Q. Yes, sir. A. No, I won't tell either
way for sure.
Q. Nor the length of time it took you to
drive back to where you dropped her? A.
No, sir, I can't tell for sure.
Q. That is all a question of guessing?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Nor the time it took you to drive
from there to the place where you got out
of the buggy? A. Yes, sir, I only told how
I drove, when the horse run and when he
didn't.
Q. And all the other questions as to the
length of time you were on the street car
going down on Bloomington, and down to
Franklin, and from Franklin over to
Twelfth and to Twenty-third street and
back, that is something you know absolute-
ly nothing about it? A. No, nothing more
than I guessed it.
Q. Did you notice the time when you re-
turned to the Ozark? A. No, sir, I did
not. -
Q. Had it ever been the custom, or do
you remember on any occasion for some
time that you have gone out from your
home without your wife, except for some
errand, or to get something for your ma-
chinery? A. No, sir, I never went out un-
less I went to get something for my ma-
chinery down on Second avenue at Hall's.
Q. I mean out on visits? A. No, sir, I
never went out.
Q. Well, did you make any excuses when
you went out that evening? A. I told her
that evening that I had to go and see
Claus Bloom.
Q. Did you hear Mr. Barlow's testimony?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He referred to a night that you and
your wife were out? A. Yes, sir, I didn't
understand that.
Q. Were you out shopping together? A.
No, I did not go any further than the but-
cher store, two blocks from there; I never
Went out alone.
Q. Mr. Erwin tried to have you explain
why you went into the bathroom instead
of the bedroom after you returned there.
You said you did exchange the cartridges
in the bathroom? A. Yes, sir, I said so.
Q. Why did you do that, do you remem-
ber? A. No, I can’t give any explanation,
—I just simply went in there and lit the
gas and exchanged them.
Charles Anderson
Was then sworn, and examined by Mr.
Nye.
Q. Are you related to Mrs. Blixt or Mr.
Blixt? A. Mrs. Blixt is my sister.
Q. Where do you live? A. 1123 First
street south.
Q. What has been your occupation the
last summer and fall? A. Oh, not much
of anything.
Did you have any employment dur-
ing the latter part of November and the
first of December? A. Nothing, but I
worked up to the Ozark firing nights.
Q. Do you remember what time you com-
menced firing at the Ozark? A. Well, the
first of November I fired from 3 o'clock to
7 o’clock, and the first of December I start-
ed to fire from 7 o'clock and working un-
til 7.
Q. On the 1st of December you com-
menced to fire from 7 o'clock in the even-
ing until 7 o'clock in the morning? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Were you at the Ozark during the
week preceding the Monday evening on
which this woman was killed? A. Yes, sir,
I was there every evening. I generally got
there about half past 6 or 7, and remained
right through the night. I slept on a cot
in one of the bedrooms.
Q. Whose bedroom? A. Blixt's.
Q. In the basement? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have any other duties about
the block except to fire? A. No, sir, I
run the elevator once in a while, that is
all.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward? A.
Yes, sir, I knew him from the time I
started to work there. I saw him often.
Q. Where did you generally see him? A.
In the basement, at the boiler room.
Who was he with 2 A. Oh, he gen-
erally came down there to have a little
talk with Blixt once in a while.
Q. Can you recall the first occasion when
you saw them talking together in the base-
ment? A: I did not pay much attention to
them.
Q. Did you hear any of their conversa-
tion at any time? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever see them make any at-
tempt to conceal from you what they said,
or to keep you from hearing? A. Well, I
noticed once or twice they kind of slacked
up on talking when I came passing through
there.
Q. Do you remember when that was? A.
I could not tell you exactly; it was one or
two weeks around that, before this hap-
pened.
Q. Do you remember anything particular
about Saturday night preceding this mur-
der? A. Yes, sir.




112
OFFICIAL STENOF RAPHIC REPORT
Q: What do you recall concerning that
night—did you see Harry that night? A.
Yes, Harry came down there and he asked
Blixt if he had the job done.
Q. Do you remember what hour in the
evening that was 2 A. Some time around 6
o'clock; I could not exactly give you the
hour.
Q. Was there any one else in there? A.
Hans Barlow.
Q. Do you know what reply Blixtº made?
A. Well, yes, Blixt said he cut it off.
Q. You hear anything else? A. Well,
Harry kind of gave out a word and he
said he didn’t want him to cut it, that he
wantod it bent.
Q. Where were you at that time? A.
I sat right there on the bench in front of
the boiler.
Q. Well, did you see anything further
done? A. No, not any more than Harry
took up the piece and looked at them
and he said, “Well, that will do,” and he
walked towards the elevator and Blixt fol.
lowed him.
Q. Did you see Harry again that even-
ing? A. No, I don’t think I did—I can’t
remember as I did.
Q: Who ran the elevator that night? A.
Blixt ran it until 9 o'clock.
How do you remember that? A. I
know, because it was unusual to me, be-
cause I used to take it at half past 7.
Q. Did you hear any remarks made why
you were not to take it as usual that
night? A. No, I did not know but what he
was going to run it until 9 o'clock every
night.
Q. Were you there Sunday? A. Yes, sir,
I went there Sunday night.
Do you remember whether you saw
Harry Sunday night? A.. I don't remem-
ber.
Q. How about Monday night? A. Mon-
day night, yes, I saw Harry. It was round
about 6:30 when I saw him.
Q. And where? A. In the basement.
THE NIGHT OF THE MURDER.
Q. That is the evening the woman was
killed? A. Yes, sir, Monday evening.
Q. Who was he with Monday evening
in the basement? A. With Blixt.
And where were they? A. Oh, they
came towards the boiler room and then
they walked towards the elevator again.
Q. Do you know how long you observed
them there together? A. Probably 10 to
15 minutes. I would not say the certain
time, I think it was about that time, be-
cause I didn’t pay any more attention to
it.
Q. Did you see Harry when he went out,
after they had been together? A. No, I
didn’t see Harry then, but Blixt he came
back.
Q. Blixt came back into the boiler room
where you were? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say you did not see Harry go
out? A. Not just right away, I didn’t see
him go out, no.
Q. You saw Blixt come back? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you see Blixt from the time he
left the block, later that evening? A. Yes,
sir. I saw Blixt at the time he went out,
and I met Harry coming in.
Q. Now, how long after that did you see
them, whether 15 or 20 minutes? A. Well,
the time that Blixt went away was 15 or
20 minutes past 7.
Q. So there was quite an interval of
time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. According to your judgment, about an
hour? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And half past 7, how do you fix that
time? A. Well, because I was expecting
Frank Tucker to leave the elevator at any
minute, then.
Q. And then you would take it? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And about half past 7 or 20 minutes
to 8, you say, Blixt left the block? A. No,
I didn't say that.
Q. Well, you saw him go up? A. Yes,
sir, I saw him go up.
How was he dressed at that time?
A. He put his cap on and his coat and he
went up the elevator and got off and went
out towards the Hennepin entrance.
Q. Did you see Harry? A. Yes, sir, Harry
was standing in the door and they kind of
talked a little and Blixt passed on. They
kind of talked together, because I saw
Blixt stop, and then he went right on
again.
Q. Well, did you see Harry after that?
A. Well, yes, Harry came shortly after
that and got on the elevator and went
down in the basement.
Q. Did you see where he went in the
basement? A. Yes, sir, he stopped to take
a drink of water. -
Q. Did you see where else he went? A.
Then my sister asked him if–
Mr. Smith–That is objected to, what his
sister said.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Did you hear him say anything? A.
Yes, sir; the first thing he said was,
“Where is the boss?” And my sister said,
“Didn’t you see him?” And he said, “Yes,
I just saw him going out and he said some-
thing about moving a sewing machine,
What was it?”
Q. What did she say? A. She told him
what his father had said; if he didn't care
his father didn’t care and that she would
put the sewing machine up stairs, and he
said, “Put it up there, I don’t care,” and
so he turned around and went up the
back stairs. That is the last time I saw
him until about 11 o'clock. He had his
overcoat on his arm.
Q. That is the last time you saw Harry,
in the early part of the evening? A. Yes,
sir, until about 11 o’clock.
Q. When did you again see Blixt? A. Oh,
somewhere near 10 o’clock.
Q. Where did you See
walked in the back way,
Harry went out.
Q. In the basement? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where had you been prior to the
time that you saw him in the basement?
A.. I was at the elevator, and I left the
elevator at the time he went down, and I
took my place in the basement.
Q. Whereabouts were you, sitting down
or lying down? A. It sat down on the
bench.
Q. How long had you been there on the
bench just before you saw Blixt in the
basement? A. I could guess probably 10
minutes.
Q. Where you were sitting there on the
bench, could you have seen any person on
the ground floor above? A. No, sir.
him? A. He
the same way















































OF THE HAYWARD
MURDER TRIAL. 113
You know what Blixt did when he
came in? A. He just looked at me like
that, and that was all, and walked right
into his room. I did not see him after that
Q: What time did you learn that evening
of the accident, or supposed accident? A.
oh, about half past nine one of the officers
asked me to go up stairs and find out if
Miss Ging had got back.
Q. Did you after that time and before you
saw Harry again have any conversation
with your sister? A. Just a little, just as
far as I heard something was the matter
up stairs.
Mr. Smith—That is objected to.
The Court—Don’t state what the conver-
sation was; he may state what it related
“. What did the conversation relate to?
A. That Miss Ging was out riding and she
was hurt. -
Q. Well, was the conversation concerning
Miss Gingº A. Yes, sir; that is all.
Q. When, after Blixt came back and went
to bed, as you supposed, did you see Harry
again? A. Oh, about an hour later. I was
going to close up at 11 o'clock, and I had
been up at the top, and as I came down
Henry Goosman and an officer were stand-
ing talking about it, and I just took them
up to the second floor, and then went down
again, and there was Harry. -
Q. Did you see Harry when he came in?
A. I just saw him when he was on the in-
side of the door. He came in on the Hen-
nepin side. He came to the elevator and
asked if I had got any fresh water down
in the basement. I said yes, and so he
went down into the basement with me.
Q. Did you see where he went? A. Yes,
sir, he took a drink of water and went
right into Blixt's bed room. -
Q. Did you hear anything that was said?
A. No, sir, I did not hear anything that
was said, because the bell rang, and I
went up to answer the call, and there was
Henry Goosman, and when I returned I
went to the basement, and I saw Harry,
and he asked me what the excitement was,
and what was the matter with Miss Ging,
and I told him I did not know much, and
I told him that Henry Goosman was there
trying to find out if she was hurt. That is
all he said. He went up on the second
floor with Henry.
Q. Did you see him talking with Henry?
A. He did a little talking there.
Q. Did you hear anything that was said?
A. Well, after they were talking a little
while he said, “I will bet that she was mur-
dered for her money.”
Q. How did he appear? A. He turned
kind of pale and threw himself up towards
the wall. And Mr. Goosman told him not
to take it so hard before he found out
what it was; but he pulled out some papers
and was going to show them to Mr. Goos-
man, and the officer who was standing
there, and the bell rang and I went up
stairs, so I didn't hear anything further
that he said. Towards morning he came
down into the basement again. It was
about 3 or 4 o'clock. He went right into
Blixt's room again.
Q: Did you hear any conversation? A.
No, sir.
Q. Do you know how long he was there
then? A: I could not tell you, because I
was busy at my boilers to heat up the
building.
Q. Well, did you see him after that? A.
Why, I saw him in the morning. No, sir,
I didn’t have a talk, I only went up
stairs and got hold of the Times.
Q: Did you see him with Blixt in the
basement during that day, which was
Tuesday? A. No, not as I can remember,
any more than after Blixt got up.
Q. Do you remember about Wednesday?
A. No, I could not tell you; I don’t think
I saw him in there any more.
Q. That was the last you saw of him?
A. Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. At the time of the murder were you
attending to the heating apparatus from 7
in the evening to 7 in the morning? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. So that Blixt could be excused at 72
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And did you at the same time operate
the elevator when it needed to be run?
A. Yes, sir, from half past 7.
Q. On this Monday night you speak of,
you say you saw Blixt when he went out?
A. Yes, sir. He went to the first floor on
the elevator. Frank Tucker was running
the elevator.
Q. Had he run the elevator during the
day? A. Yes, sir
Q. Did you go above the first floor when
Blixt went up to go out of the building be-
tween 7 and 8 o'clock? A. I stopped on
the first floor. -
Q. Now, you say, you saw Harry Hay-
ward on the Saturday evening preceding?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You arrived at half past 6? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. This was Saturday night that you
came up and began operating the boiler
and the heating apparatus at 7 o'clock in
the evening 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, how long after you arrived at
the Ozark flats at half past 6 before you
saw Harry? A. Just a few minutes after.
I went right out in the basement without
any delay.
Q: Who was in the basement when you
went down that Saturday night? A. Blixt.
and a man by the name of Hans Barlow.
Q. Do you know him? A. I don’t know
him, only I have seen him and heard his
name. I had seen him before. He had been
there once or twice, so I just knew who the
man was, that is all.
Q: What were Mr. Barlow and Mr. Blixt.
doing when you arrived there Saturday
night? A. Well, Barlow was sitting down
and Blixt was attending his work. Blixt
was firing up and doing his work until I
was ready to take it. I came down from
the elevator and went to the bench and
took my coat off and hung it up and sat
down.
Q. And then you say in a few minutes
Harry Hayward came down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you say he said, substantially,
“Have you got the job done?” A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you know what the job referred
to at that time was? A. I didn't know
nothing about it.
Q. And Blixt told him yes? A. Yes, he
says, “I cut it off.”
Q. And then Harry replied that he didn't





114 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
want it cut off, he only wanted it bent?
A. That is right.
Q. And he took the two pieces of the T
rail in his hands and went out? A. Yes,
Sir".
Q. How did he carry them along? A.
All in one hand.
Q. And he and Blixt went out? A. Yes,
sir, they went towards the elevator, that
is as far as I can tell you about it.
Q. Did you hear any conversation be-
tween them? A. No, sir.
Q. After Blixt returned, did you hear any
conversation in regard to the uses to which
this rail was to be put, as testified to by
Mr. Barlow 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Was there any conversation between
Harry and Blixt as to the use for which
this rail was to be put? A. No, sir.
Q. You remained right there? A. Yes,
sir, I sat on the bench where I went the
first place. I never stirred.
Q. There was nothing said about hang-
ing it on the wall, as testified to by Bar-
low 2 A. Nothing of the kind.
Q. Did you hear them conversing when
Hayward came back? A. No, sir.
Q. Would you have heard the conversa-
tion between them if he had come back
ańd they had entered into the conversa-
tion? A. Yes, sir, I think I would.
Q. On Monday night you began– A. At
7 o’clock.
Q. Did you get down before 7? A. Yes,
sir, some time after 6.
Q. And you went to the basement? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Who was there? A. Blixt.
Q. Was his wife there? A. Yes, sir, she
was in her room.
- Did you see her soon after getting
there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was Blixt doing? A. Doing the
same work as usual.
Q. Did you hear anything that was said
or do you remember anything that was
said between you and Blixt, or between
you and Mrs. Blixt, before Harry came
down? A. No, I can’t think of anything.
Q. And when Harry came down, from
that time you remember? A. Well, I re-
member Blixt said something about he
wanted to go out and collect some money
and wanted to get off a little early.
Q. Who did he say that to? A. To me.
I said he could go, but he didn’t seem to
get ready any earlier than if he had worked
until 7 o'clock.
Q. What time did Harry come down the
Monday night, Dec. 3? A. I could not give
you any certain time.
Q. Are you certain he came down twice
that evening 2 A. Yes, sir, I am sure of
that. -
Q. The first time he camdº down was
what time? A. Half past 6.
Where were you when he came down 2
A. Sitting on the bench. I generally took
that place when I got down there; there
was only one chair—it is a pretty long
bench, work bench.
Q. Where was Blixt at that time? A.
He was standing at the side of the bench.
Q. Who spoke first? A. Well, I don’t
just remember who spoke first just at that
time.
Q. Well, you remember what was said?
A. No, sir, I don’t.
Q. By either Harry or Blixt, on that
Monday night—you say you don’t remem-
ber? A. No, not just exactly.
Q. Well, do you know pretty nearly—we
want your best recollectiºn. and we don’t
want anything that you don’t remember?
A. Well, I won’t give anything I don't re-
member. I don’t remember of his saying
anything up to the time he took him over
towards the elevator.
Q. Took who, Blixt? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn’t hear anything said? A. No,
S11".
Q. Well, how do you know he took Blixt.
—why didn't Blixt take him 2 A. Because
that Harry came down there and they
went together towards the elevator.
Q. You didn’t hear any conversation? A.
No, sir. -
Q. And in a little while you say Blixt.
returned? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You don’t know how Harry went up
stairs? A. No, sir, I don’t.
Q. Do you know whether he went up at
all? A. No, sir.
Q. Blixt came back? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. That was about half past 6 or a little
later? A. Or a little later.
Q. Now, when did you next on that Mon-
day night see Harry Hayward or Blixt-
Blixt came back immediately? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you next see Harry? A.
Oh, 25 minutes or so after 7.
Q. Did he come down then or did you
go up? A. Well, it was just after Blixt.
had left and Frank Tucker and I was at
the elevator, and so Mr. Hayward came
and went down in the basement, and he
took a walk around and went straight for
the pail of water. - -
Q. Were you in the basement when Blixt.
left? A. Yes, sir. I went toward the ele-
vator when Blixt went up, and I was up
on the first floor, Frank Tucker and I, at
the elevator when Harry Hayward came
down, just at the time when Blixt went
out.
Q. What were you doing at the elevator?
A. I was just at the elevator with him.
Q. Where did you see Harry first the sec-
ond time that evening? A. Right near the
elevator, towards Harry's door, towards
the entrance on Hennepin avenue.
Q. At the same time that Blixt went out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see them talking together? A.
Yes, sir; Blixt kind of stopped and talked
to Harry and went right out the Hennepin
avenue door.
Q. You say he stopped and talked with
Harry? A. Yes, sir, a few minutes. I don’t
know whether Frank Tucker saw him or
not, but I did.
Q. And when did you move your eleva-
tor? When Harry went down in the
basement? No, sir, Frank Tucker run the
elevator and I went down in the boiler
room where I was supposed to belong.
Q. Well, why did you leave the boiler
room and go to the elevator? A. Well, I
just went there to see if everything was
all right. I expected that I would have to
take the elevator every minute, but, of
course, I had the boilers to attend to.
Q. Then why didn't you stay there in the
boiler room instead of riding up to the
first floor on the elevator? A. Well, I just
made that one trip and then I stayed down.
Q. Where did you go after you went
down? A: I went to the boiler room and
took my seat on the bench in front of the





























of THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 115
boiler there, and Harry he stopped at the
water pail, and he asked my sister, “Where
is the boss?” and she asked him if he
didn't see him and he said, “Yes, I saw
him and he said something about a sewing
machine, what was it?” He said that he
was in a hurry and didn't have very much
time to answer him, and so my sister told
him what W. W. Hayward had said that
she could put a sewing machine in there
if Harry didn't care, and Harry said to
put it up, and he walked off again and
went up the back stairs.
Q: Did you follow him to see if he went
up? A. No, sir.
Q. How do you know he went up the
back stairs? A. Could not I see from
where I was sitting?
Q. You sat on the bench and saw him
go up the back stairs? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether he went out
doors or not? A. He was bound to go out
doors if he went that way, because they led
ºut doors.
Q. Did the back stairs carry him out
doors? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then he could not go up stairs? A.
No. sir.
Q. The back stairs go out on Thir-
teenth street? A. Yes, sir, there is a kind
of little alley running in there from Thir-
teenth street.
Q: What kind of doors are they? A.
Kind of raised up. Those doors were not
shut then, he didn’t have to raise them up.
It was not cold enough at that time.
Q. How long were they together when
Harry was down there at half past 6 the
Monday night? A. I should judge 10 or 15
minutes, I could not say for certain.
Q. I asked you day before yesterday as
to whether or not you were running the
elevator at half past 7? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Aside from that question I asked
you with whom you have talked this case
over? A. With nobody, but I began to
think it over to see how it was, and I got
it clear in my mind; before that I never
thought of anything, I never paid no at-
tention to anything.
Q. You say you have not talked this case
over with any one? A. No, one—
Mr. Nye-He didn't say so.
Q. Then you have talked it over. What
time did Hans Barlow go away that night?
A. I don’t know what time, because I
took the elevator then, and he could have
gone at any time.
Q. Did you see him after you took the
elevator? A. No, sir.
Q. And what makes you think he went
away? A. He must have went shortly
after I took it. Because I didn’t see him
around there.
Q. It is suggested that you explain from
this map and state where you were when
he went out on this stairway leading up to
Thirteenth street that night. Just step
over here and look at this plat.
(Counsel here explained to the witness
the plat representing the Ozark flats.)
Q. You say Blixt cam in on Monday
night about 10 o'clock? A. Yes, sir, some
where about 10. He came right in. I was
sitting on that bench there.
Q. Which stairs did he come down? A.
The stairs that Harry walked out on.
Q. He came in from the alley through
the back stairs? A. Yes, sir, and went
right into his room.
Q. Did you see him again that night? A.
No, sir.
Q. How long did you remain in the boiler
room after Blixt came in? A. A few min-
utes. I then went to the elevator, because
the bell rang and I had to go.
Q. How far did you go with the elevator?
A. I don't remember exactly which floor,
but I think it was the fifth.
Q. Do you know whether Blixt went to
bedº A.. I think he did because I did not
see him after that. I am pretty sure he
did. I did not see him any more than to
see him go into his room. Yes, he did not
go out of his room again, for if he had I
would have seen him.
Q. You are positive Blixt came down in-
to the basement through the same stairs
you saw Harry go up on 2 A. Yes, sir
Q. The last time you had seen Harry
before that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And he had gone out to the rear of
the building by going up that way? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. I will ask you to point out those stairs
once more by which you say Harry went
out. A. (Referring to the map.) I don't
know much about this, but if this is the
bench, here is the stairway.
Q. And you saw Blixt come down those
stairs about 10 o'clock that night? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And you think if he had gotten up
you would have seen him? A. Think I
would, pretty sure I would.
Q. Are you sure he didn't go up those
back stairs that night? A. I hardly think
he did.
Q. Did you hear any explosion in the
furnace that night? A. No, sir. There
might have been a dozen of them at the
time I went up stairs and I would not have
heard it.
Q. You don’t know how much noise the
explosion of a cartridge would make? A.
No, sir.
Q. You didn’t hear anything unusual?
A. No, sir.
Q. Now, I want you to relate the con-
versation, Mr. Anderson, that took place
between you and Harry, when you saw
him about 11 o'clock. A. Well, at 11 o'clock
when Harry came down—
Q. That was not the next time you saw
him after he went out the back way? A.
Yes, sir. Well, when Harry came in he
came towards the elevator and says, “Have
you got any fresh water down there?”
I says, “Yes,” and so he went down and
got the water and marched into Blixt's
room. He just asked me if there was any
fresh water down there and so I says yes,
and he went down the elevator with me
and he went into Blixt's room; and when
he came out of Blixt's room he asked me,
“What was the excitement up stairs, what
is the matter with Miss Ging?”
Q. Give it in his exact language—what
is the excitement up stairs? A. “What is
the matter with Miss Ging?” I said, “I
don’t know exactly, any more than the
word I got when I went past the tele-
phone.”
Q: What was the word? A. That she was
out riding and her buggy had come back
and that she had had a runaway—that is
all I know about it.
Q. Did you tell him the buggy had come





116. OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
back? A. Yes, sir, that the buggy had come
back and that they thought it was a run-
away. -
Q. Why did you tell him that? A. Be-
cause Henry Goosman said so.
Q. He told you so? A. No, sir; he was
standing talking to an officer about it and
I heard him.
Q. Did you tell him in regard to blood
being in the buggy? A. No, I don’t think
did. -
Q. Had you heard about it? A. No, I
did not either; afterwards they began ex-
plaining it after they found out she was
dead.
Q. But you had heard Goosman talking
with an officer in the hall? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did you say to Goosman before
that, before you saw Harry? A. They sent
me up stairs to see if Miss Ging had got
back. -
Q. So you knew she had been out riding
with a carriage? A. No, not until they
sent me up to find out if she had got back.
Q: What did you do? A. I went up stairs
and asked if she had got back.
Q: What did the officer tell you to do? A.
He just told me to go up stairs and in-
quire.
Q. He didn't tell you there had been a
runaway? A. No, sir.
Q: Who did you inquire of 2 A. Well,
there was a little girl in there and I just
went in and asked her if Miss Ging had
returned, and she said no, and I went
down again.
Q: What time was that, if you know? A.
I am pretty sure it was 20 minutes or half
past 9 o'clock.
Q. On Monday evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Harry came in immediately after that?
Mr. Nye–He did not say so.
A. He came in at 11 o'clock.
Q. Well, what other information did you
have in regard to this murder or accident?
A. Well, a little after that Henry Goosman
came in and went to the telephone and
asked if the wagon had returned; he tele-
phoned to the police headquarters.
Q. He asked if the police wagon had re-
turned? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear anything more about it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear that the woman had
been carried to the county morgue? A.
No, sir, that was after Harry got in.
Q. Then when Harry came down and
asked what the excitement was, you knew
there had been or what was reported to
have been, an accident? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you knew that the police wagon
had gone for the body? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You knew these three things? A.
Well, I did not know anything about it un-
til 11 o’clock.
Q. Well, you had heard it? A. Yes, sir,
I heard it that she got hurt; something
of that kind.
Q. And you knew that before 11 o'clock?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you knew the police wagon had
gone out after her body before 11 o'clock?
A. Just about 11.
Q. Now, are you confident in your con-
versation that night you did not state to
him it was reported that Miss Ging had
been injured, and they had sent out the
police wagon after her body? A. I did not
say that to any one. All I heard was
that she was out riding and got hurt, and
they thought it was a runaway, that is all
I know, and that is all I said.
Q. And you knew that the police wagon
had gone out after her body? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not? A. No, sir, as I just
told you, I didn’t hear that until later on.
Q. I thought you just said you heard
Goosman telephoning to the police head-
quarters asking them whether the wagon
that had gone after her body had return-
ed? A. If you want me to tell you whaz
I know I want you to give me a chance;
you are jumping back and forth and try-
ing to get me mixed up.
Q. No, I don’t want to get you mixed up
at all; I just want to know the facts.
Now, when did you first hear that the po-
lice wagon had be- sent out after her
body? A. I said somewhere about 11
o'clock. -
Q. Was it before or after Harry came in?
A. It was a few minutes before Harry
came in. - -
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock,
Friday morning, Feb. 8, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. S.
Charles Anderson
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Smith.
Q. Do you know who Mr. Sweetser is?
A. No, sir.
Q. You haven’t seen him as one of the
attorneys, with glasses on? A. No, sir, I
don’t know him at all.
Q. Do you remember the gentleman of
that personal description going to see you
and asking you what you knew about this
case? A. No, sir, I can’t remember.
Q. Do you remember of telling him that
you did not see Blixt when he went out of
the building on Monday night, Dec. 3? A.
No, sir, I don’t remember that I told any-
body anything about it.
Q. Did you tell him?
The Court–He said he didn’t remember
telling anybody about it. You will have
to call his attention to time and place.
Mr. Smith—You testified yesterday that
you remembered talking with several in
regard to it? A. Yes, sir, but I cannot
place who they are. There are so many of
them come down there.
Q. Do you remember having told any
one that you did not see Blixt when he
went out of the building, the night of
Dec. 3?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant,
immaterial.
Objection overruled. -
A. I don’t remember that I told any one
anything about it.
Q. Do you remember having told Mr.
Sweetser about a week ago in the Ozark
flats, when conversing about this event.
that you did not see Blixt when he went
out of the Ozark flats on the night of Dec.
3—I cannot fix the time.
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial.
Overruled.
A. No, sir. I can’t remember anything
about it.
Q. Now, last night at the time of the
adjournment we were speaking about what
you heard Mr. Goosman say as to a police
wagon being sent out after a body? A.
That was around 11 o’clock, right at the
telephone. When Goosman come in the
first time I saw him, he went up to the







OF THE HAYWARD
MURDER TRIAL. 117.
telephone and told me to go upstairs and
find out if she had returned, Miss Ging.
Q. You did not hear conversation beside
what Goosman stated, through the tele-
phone? A: I did not hear much about it.
Q: What time did Goosman come there?
A. I could not just exactly give you the
time. Somewhere about half past 9, the
first when he come into the building.
Q. How long did you see him around
there? A. Not very long.
Q. You saw him then at half past 9, and
for some time thereafter, and saw him
again about 11? A. Yes. It was after I
seen Harry.
Q. Did you hear him telephone between
9 and 10 o'clock? A. No, sir; he just rung
up the telephone—that is all.
Q. Goosman? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did you hear him say through
the telephone? A. I could not tell, because
I went up stairs.
Q. When you came back from up stairs
did you see Goosman? A. Yes, sir, on the
first floor. I told him she was not return-
ed. He did not say anything, and I went
down to the basement, where I done my
work.
Q. Where did Goosman go, as far as
you know? A. Was standing on the first
floor with an officer. I seen him at the
telephone at the time Harry come.
Q. I mean before Harry had returned?
A. No, sir; I seen him at the time that
Harry come, and wanted to go down to
the basement—Goosman spoke to Harry.
Q: What did Goosman say to Harry?
A. He said, “Is that you, Harry?” That is
all he said.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You saw Harry as he came in—where
was Goosman? A. He was up at the block,
the second floor.
Q. He says to Harry, “Is that you,
Harry?” A. Yes, sir.
Q. Stepped into the elevator and went
down? A. Yes, sir.
. So that was all that was said? A.
That was all that was said.
Q. If there had been anything else said,
you would have heard it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say you don't know Mr. Sweet-
ser? A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. You have talked with several people,
you say, concerning the matter? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And you may have talked with Mr.
Sweetser? A. I might, I don’t know.
Q. You may have talked with several
people there on the part of the defense?
A. I guess there were; I don’t know who
they were.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Didn't you state yesterday that you
saw Harry when he came in on the first
floor, and that he got into the elevator
from the first floor to go down into the
* A. Yes, I told you this morn-
nº.
Q. You told me that he got on at the
second floor? A. No, sir; he got in on
the first floor, stepped in the elevator and
went down into the basement. The tele-
phone is on the second floor.
Q. Was Mr. Goosman on the ground
floor, or Goosman at the telephone on the
second floor? A. On the second floor, at
the telephone. -
Q. And Harry came in on the groun
floor, got into the elevator and went right
down into the basement? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How could Goosman say to him, “Is
that you, Harry?” A. He could see him
when he passed through, because the ele-
vator is standing so high you can see right
through the top of it, the screen work.
Q. He came and looked and spoke
through the top of the elevator? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. What time did you see Barlow there
prior to Dec. 1, the night of Dec. 1, that
Saturday night? A. Oh, I should judge it
was about half past 6.
Q. What time did you ever see him in
the basement of the Ozark flats prior to
Dec. 12 A. I could not tell you.
Frank Tucker
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Your name is Frank Tucker? A.
Yes.
Q. How old are you? A. Nineteen.
Q. Where do you live? A. 58%. Thir-
teenth street south.
Q. How long have you lived there? A.
Well, a little over two years, I think. I
have run the elevator at the Ozark for the
last year and nine months.
Q. What hours were you on duty? A.
From 7 in the morning until about half
past 7 in the evening.
Q. You were living at home, that is, you
slept at home, the place that you have de-
scribed 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You would reach your work a little
before 7 in the morning? A. Sometimes.
And remain in the block constantly
during the day and up until about half past
7 in the evening? A. Only my noon hour,
that is all.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you known him? A.
Ever since I went into the block.
Q. Do you know Claus A. Blixt? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. He was the engineer in that block,
was he? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know his wife? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know where they lived in that
block? A. Yes.
Q. Where was it? A. In the basement.
Q. Do you know what his regular hours
of work were? A. During the summer he
worked from 7 in the morning until 11 at
night.
Q. How was it in the fall, later? A.
When Charlie, the night man, went on he
worked from 7 until 7.
Q. That is Charlie Anderson? A. Yes.
sir.
Q. During the summer, and particularly
a few weeks just preceding December, did
you ever see Harry in the basement? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Who was he in company with? A.
Well, most any one that happened to be
down there. -
- Did you ever see him there with
Blixt? A. Yes, sir; nearly every day.
Q. Well, what time of day, or evening
A. Sometimes either, or both. -
Q. Well, did they appear to be in con-
versation? A. Yes, part of the time.
Q. Did you ever have occasion to go
near them when you would see them con-
versing? A. No sir.


ºrg
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. Do you remember about what time
you quit work on Monday evening, Dec. 3?
A. About the usual time.
Q. About half past 7? A. Yes.
Q. Did you see Harry in the basement
about that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who was he with ? A. He was going
out of the basement.
Q. Was Blixt in there? A. No, Blixt had
gone.
Q. Before that time did you see Blixt or
Harry in there? A. Yes, sir. I dropped
down once and they were together by the
pump.
Q. They appeared to be talking? A. I
guess so; I just opened the door and
looked out and backed up.
Q. About how long do you think they
were down there, if you know? A. I don’t
ºxnow.
Q. About how long was that before you
quit work? A. I think it was about 7
o'clock, or somewhere along there.
Q. Did you ever have any conversation
with Harry in regard to your going down
to the basement with your elevator? A.
Yes, sir. He told me once that I had bet-
ºter stay up on the first floor and not go
down in the basement.
Q. Did you see Blixt twice when you saw
Blixt, if at all, that evening of Dec. 3? A.
I seen him twice.
Q. When was the first time?
was talking to Harry,
him when he went out.
Q. About what time do you think it was
when you saw him go out? A. About 20
minutes past 7 or 25, I think—I don't know
exactly. He went out at the Hennepin
entrance.
Q. Did he go up in the elevator? A. I
don’t think he did.
Q. Where were you when you saw him 2
A. I was in the elevator.
Q. Were you on the first floor when you
saw him go out? A. I was just coming
down from making a trip, and I seen him
come out, and the bell rung, and I went
right back up, and, when I come back he
was gone.
Q. Did he have his coat and cap on 2 A.
He had no overcoat; just had that gray
suit.
Q. This suit that he wears in court here?
A. The same suit.
Q. Did you see Harry about that time or
shortly after, or near that time; did you
see him go out? A. I don’t remember.
Q. After you saw Harry go out—
The Court—You mean Blixt.
Mr. Nye-Yes, after you saw Blixt go out?
A. I think I had taken Harry up to the
fifth floor just before that .
Q. Did you, just after that, or shortly
after that, see him about the basement or
anywhere? A. Yes, sir; before I went hime.
Q. How long was that after you saw
Blixt go out? A. About five minutes. He
was going out the back door of the base-
ment.
Q. You know Miss Ging? A. Yes.
Q. You saw her frequently from day to
day as she went up the elevator and down?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know whether Harry kept
company with her or whether he was with
her more or less during that time? A. He
used to go up to her rooms occasionally.
Q. Did you see them together on any
A. When he
and then I seen
other occasions than when he would go to
her rooms? A. I don't know that I ever
did.
Q. Do you know of any business trans-
actions between them? A. No, sir
Q. Which you had anything to do with?
A.. I had one last summer. I sent a
check to Harry from Minneapolis to Chi-
cago.
Q. A check or draft?
check; I sent the draft.
Q. Explain that please? A.
gave me a check—
Objected to as immaterial.
Overruled. Exception.
(The witness continues.) Harry gave me
a check with Miss Ging's name on it, and
told me to cash it at the bank and send
him a draft to Chicago, where he was.
Q. How large a check or draft? A: $80.
Q. What did you do with the draft? A.
I did just as he told me.
Q. What bank did you go to? A. I
went to the First National Bank and got
it cashed, and then took it to another bank
and got the draft and sent it to Chicago.
Q. Did he give any reasons why you
could not send that draft or check—that
was the check, you say? A. That was a
check.
Q. Now, about what time was that? A.
It was in July or August.
Q. Did he give you any memorandum at
the time, Harry? A. He made out the ad-
dress, yes, sir. -
Q. What on? A. A card, something of
the sort.
Q. Did you keep the card? A. I have
got it. I think.
Q. Let us see it? A: I don't think I
have got it here.
Q. You haven't it with you? A. I had
it with me. I expect it is in my overcoat
by that window.
Q. How long after he went away were
you to send the draft? A. I sent it the
same day, on Saturday. -
Q. You don’t remember what time he
went to the depot to take the train? A.
No, sir, I don't remember that.
(At this time the overcoat was brought
to the witness and he examined it.) I am
afraid I haven’t got the card.
Q: Are you unable to find it? A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember about what the
memorandum was? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, what was it?
Objected to as not the best evidence.
sustained.
Mr. Nye That is all. You can look for
it hereafter and see if you can find it.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith. -
Q. You are not related to Blixt in any
way? A. No, sir.
Q. At the time when Blixt went out º
that night, who was running the elevator"
A. I was.
Q. There had been no change in the run-
ning of the elevator, had there? A. No,
Q. You are positive that you were run-
ning the elevator? A. I am.
Q. And that you had run during the
day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. who had charge of the building at
this time, the first of December? A. Mr.
Hayward.
º which Hayward? A. Both, W. W.
Hayward and Harry Hayward-
A. It was a
Harry

OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
º
Q. And it is customary for them to give
directions as to what they wanted done?
s, sir.
*...* any part of the building? A. Yes,
". you would take passengers from the
first floor going up? A. Yes, sir.
Boarders or those occupying the flats
very seldom go down into the basement?
A. They go down quite often.
Q. Harry did not give you any instruc-
tions not to carry people down in the base-
ment if they wanted to go? A: Yes.
Q. But he wanted your elevator to be
on the first floor? A. Yes, sir.
Q. So as to take people as they came
in to go up, so they would not have to
call the elevator from the basement? A.
Yes, sir. -
Q. You say you saw Blixt that evening
just before he went out. How do you fix
the time? Can you fix it with any certain-
ty? A. No, sir, it is my best recollection.
Q. How long before you saw Harry and
Blixt in the basement together was it that
you carried Harry up on the fifth floor?
A. I don't think I carried him up first; I
think I seen him in the basement before
I carried him up, if I remember right.
Q. was it about that time, near that
time or some time before? A. Very near
that time; very nearly the time I took him
uº.
º, You say you went up on one of the
upper floors with the elevator, and when
you came back Blixt was gone? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Now, where did you see Blixt last?
A. He was standing by the radiator, by
Harry's room. He struck a match there
just as I disappeared on the second floor.
Q. You don't know really whether he
went out the Hennepin avenue entrance
or the Thirteenth street entrance? A. No,
sir, I do not.
Q. You don’t know which 2 A. No, sir;
they all started towards the Hennepin,
and was nearly to the door, and he reached
over and struck a match. -
Q. Did you bring Blixt up in the eleva-
vator from the basement to the first floor
at that time? A. I don’t remember of it.
Q. You don't remember the time of day
that Harry gave you this check of $80, and
asked you to have a draft? A. No, sir, I
don’t remember the exact date. I can re-
member it was about the first part of Au-
gust.
Q. Do you remember whether he gave it
to you after banking hours, and that you
got it cashed, and got the draft the next
day or not? A. That might have been it.
Q. Didn't Harry, when he told you that
you had better stop your elevator on the
first floor, didn't he say that you had bet-
ter do it when Blixt was in the basement,
when there was some one there to attend
to things in the basement, you had better
stop with your elevator on the first floor?
A. Yes, sir. That was his words, yes, sir.
Q. When Blixt was out, you sometimes
were accustomed to go down in the base-
ment? A. I had to take care of things
when he was out.
Q. When he was there Mr. Harry Hay-
ward said to you that you had better stop
on the first floor with the elevator? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. As a matter of fact, you were accus-
tomed to go down into the basement and
play checkers occasionally? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Before this time? A. Before this
time.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Do you remember whether his words
were, “You better stop your elevator on
the first floor,” or whether he said, “You
better not go down in the basement, so
often”—do you remember his words? A.
As near as I can remember his words he
says, “Don’t go down in the basement so
often when Blixt is there, because Blixt.
can take care of things down there. When
Blixt ain’t there you have to go down.”
Q. Do you recall about how long that
was before the 3d of December that he
told you that? A. It might have been a
week, it might have been three weeks.
Do you remember of seeing Charlie
Anderson that evening? A. I seen him
after Blixt went out. When I went down
to see what time it was, about half past 7,
he was sitting on the bench there, I think.
Q. Was there any difficulty about this
draft or check after you sent it? Did you
receive any telegram or further notification
from Harry? A. Yes, sir; I made a mis-
take and he telegraphed back. I tried to
cash the check at another bank instead of
the First National, instead of getting the
draft at another bank after I got the
money, I thought I had to go and cash the
check at some other bank. I could not do
that. I notified him by letter. He sent
back a telegram telling me just what to do.
Q. How did you send it, by mail? A.
Yes, I put the draft in a letter.
Q. Do you remember the address that
you sent it to? A. Harry T. Hayward,
care Palmer House, Chicago.
Frank McCormick
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Where do you live? A. I don't know.
the number–526, I guess, Nicollet avenue,
over Hale & Thomas.
Q. What is your business? A.
keeper at 308 Nicollet avenue.
Q. During what hours are you on duty
there? A. From 6 in the morning until
noon, day and night both.
Q. Where you on duty in the morning
and forenoon of Dec. 3? A. Yes, sir.
: Do you know Harry Hayward by
sight, this defendant? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Did you see him in the saloon in the
forenoon or any time during the day, Dec.
3? A. Yes. He bought a half pint of
whisky.
Q. Do you remember who else was in the
saloon? A. One was Booth and another
fellow named Hanse, and the porter. Hanse
is with the Travis Blank Book Manufac-
Bar-
turing Company. -
Q. Did you see Harry when he came
in 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he come in alone? A. There was
a gentleman with him. I don’t know this
gentleman; I did not know him.
Q. Have you ever seen him since? A.
No, sir; I never did; would not know him
if I seen him.
Q. Do you remember whether he was a
man larger or smaller than Harry? A.
Smaller, I think he was.
Q. Can you recall whether he was dark
complexioned or light? A. I could not say.
Q. Do you remember whether he had





º OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
mustache or whiskers? A. I think he had
mustache; I ain't sure.
Q. Do you remember how he was dress-
ed? A. No, I could not say. I don’t remem-
ber anything about the gentleman that
was with him.
Q. Was there any conversation aside
from what was necessary to negotiate for
the whisky? A. No, sir; none whatever.
Q. You did not hear the other man say
anything? A. No, sir.
Q. You didn't hear Harry say anything?
A. Harry asked him to have a drink; that
was all. He said he did not care for any.
Q. Can you describe this bottle that you
sold? A. Half a pint bottle, screw top,
and had a label on it.
Q. What kind of a label? A. A
son’s Monogram Rye” was on it,
Lally, 308 Nicollet avenue.
Q. Was it such a bottle as Exhibit J
(showing witness) 2 A. Yes, sir; that is the
same thing.
Q. Do you remember what hour that was 2
A. Between 10 and 11 in the morning.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Was that good whisky? A. Yes, sir,
very good.
Q. Was not drugged” A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember whom you sold bot-
ties of whisky to of that kind on Dec. 4?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whom you sold bottles
of that kind to on any day in November?
A. Oh, no; people come in there right
along every day and buy whisky.
Q. Do you remember to whom you sold
a bottle of that kind of whisky during the
month of October, any certain individual?
A. No, sir, I cannot.
Q. Then the only person that you can
identify as the person to whom you sold a
bottle of whisky in October, November or
December was Harry Hayward, and you
cannot fix the hour that you sold him the
whisky, and the day on which it was sold
to him 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do you account for that? A. Oh,
circumstances is all. -
Q. What circumstances? A. Well, the
murder upon that night, and not knowing
Mr. Hayward very well.
Q. You didn’t know anything about the
whisky in connection with the murder at
that time? A. No, sir. Mr. Booth and Mr.
Hanse spoke of it sometime after that, I
don’t remember when. I might have been
a week or two weeks.
Q. They helped you to fix the time? A.
No, sir, the porter goes away at 9 o'clock
every morning and comes back at 10, and
he came in just as Mr. Hayward was
standi- at the bar buying whisky.
Q. Did Harry ever drink anything in
that saloon? A: I don’t know that he ever
did.
“Gib-
“T. F.
Q. You had larger and smaller bottles
of that? A. Yes, sir, larger—pints and half
pints.
Q. Is the label the same on the larger
bottles? A. On the pints it is—yes, sir.
Q. How are you able to swear that it.
was a half pint bottle rather than a pint
bottle that he bought? A. Because I know.
I remember his asking for a half pint bot-
tle.
Q. Harry is the only man during three
months that you can say came in and
asked for a half pint bottle of whisky?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You sell a great many? A. I sell
quite a few; may not sell as many as the
others.
Q. Harry is the only person you can
identify as having purchased a half pint of
Gibson’s Monogram Rye at your saloon
during three months? A. A certain man
comes in there, Dr. Meloy, that buys bot-
tles—buys them by pints and half pints.
Mr. Smith–I don't care about your nam-
ling any names. -
Mr. Nye-It might involve us.
Mr. Smith–The prosecution suggests that
it might involve them. Might it not have
been a pint bottle? A. No, sir, it was a
half pint bottle. I remember, because he
gave me 40 cents for it.
Q. What did he give you? A. I don't
know what he gave me.
Q. How much is the price of a pint
bottle? A. Seventy-five cents.
Q. Might it not have been a pint bottle,
and you got 75 cents? A. No, sir; it was
no pint bottle.
Q. I didn’t know but you might possibly
identify some other person, so that there
was some reason why you remember this
particular transaction? A: I would not
remember that any more than any other.
It just happened to be called to my mind.
Q. Ever speak to Mr. Hayward about it?
A. Not until the other day.
Q. Did you ever speak to Mr. Doyle
about it? A. Not that I rennember of, no,
sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. There was unusual excitement the fol-
lowing day in this city about the killing of
Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The newspapers were full of it? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Of the reports of the killing? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You read the papers on that day? A.
Yes.
Q. Did you not also ascertain that day
that Mr. Hayward was questioned very
closely concerning his relations with her
and that suspicion was pointed very
strongly to him? A. Yes, sir.
Objected to as immaterial.
Overruled.
Exception.
Q. And would not the circumstance of
your having sold him the whisky on the
day previous at once recur to your mind?
A. Yes, sir. I remembered him being in
there the day before.
Q. Is that the reason that circumstance
is more prominently in your mind than the
circumstance of selling to other men? A:
Yes, sir.
Q. When did you first recall it? A. The
next day I happened to think about it-
that is, his being in there; I didn't re-
member him buying whisky any more
than I would any other man.
Q. When did you first talk of his buying
a bottle of whisky in there after the 3d of
December? A. Mr. Booth came in there
and wanted to know what I thought about
it, and said—
Q. You need not state what he said. How
long after the murder was it that Mr.
Booth came in?
Mr. Nye-He has explained that




OF THE HAYWARD
MURDER TRIAL. º
Mr. Smith–I would like to have the re-
porter read the last question.
Q. (Last question read to the witness.)
A. A week, I should judge, three or four
ayS.
*. And he called it up to your mind?
A. Yes, sir; he asked me if it was not Mr.
Hayward that was here and got the whisky
the morning he was in there. That was the
first time it was called to my mind by any
one on the outside.
Q. When did you first recall that to your
mind? A. I remembered it the next day
noon when I came to work; I remembered
of his being in there and getting the
whisky.
Q. And it was suggested by something
you saw in the paper? A. Yes, sir, his
name was connected with the murder.
W. M. Booth
Sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q: What has been your business, Mr.
Booth, and is now 2 A. Bookkeeper for the
Old Pittsburg Coal Company. I have only
been in the employ of that company since
the 15th of December, 1894.
Q. Previous to that time where were
you engaged? A: I was with the Mer-
chants' Credit Protective Union before
that, that was the only business I ever
done there.
Q. Do you know Mr. Hayward by sight?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you in Mr. Lally's place at any
time on Monday the 3rd day of December
last, in this city” A. Yes, sir, I was.
Q: What time? A. It must have been
some time between 10 and 11 o'clock, I do
not know what time it was exactly.
Q. Do you recollect who was attending
the bar at that time? A. Yes, sir.
Who was it? A. Mr. McCormick.
Q. Do you recollect who, if any other
person, was in that place at that time? A.
There was; I don’t know what his name.
was, but he was sitting over to one side
and Mr. McCormick and myself was the
only ones in at that time.
Q. While you were there do you remem-
ber any other person coming in 2 A. I re-
member two gentlemen coming in and buy-
ing a half pint of whisky, one of them.
Q. Can you now, or did you then recog-
nize either of those two men that came in
that saloon at that time? A. No, sir, I
would not have known them 15 minutes
after I saw them. -
Q. Have you ever seen Mr. Hayward
since that time? A. No, sir.
i Did you know the other man? A. No,
sir.
Q. Neither of them? A. No, sir.
Q. You remember the circumstance of
the half pint of whisky being purchased
by one of the men? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember anything about the
height or appearance of the men? A. Well,
one man was larger than the other one—
one was a pretty good-sized man and the
other was a small one.
Q. You say the liquor was bought by
one of these men? A. Yes, sir, by the
larger of the two.
Q: Did anything else occur at that time
which fixes the circumstance upon your
recollection? A. Yes, sir, I left there
about five minutes afterwards, and went
and got my skates sharpened; I remember
the morning very well. I have it down in
the book. I keep a little diary.
Q. The following morning you heard
and read in the papers an account of the
murder? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you first learn anything
about the identity of the person who
bought the liquor, at the time you were in
Lally's place? A. Well, after the gentle-
men went out Mr. McCormick asked me if
I knew who that was, and I told him. I
didn’t; he says, “That is Harry Hayward;
his father owns the Ozark flats.” That is
all that he said.
Q. Have you seen Mr. Hayward this
morning 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Do you see any person in this room
who resembles the person you saw there
at that time? A. Well, now, Mr. Hayward
was pointed out to me just a moment be-
fore I came up here, that is the only way,
but I would not have recognized him 15
minutes after that.
Q. You paid no attention to him? A. I.
paid no attention to him, because I did not
See his face at all.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. When did you talk with Mr. McCor-
mick after Dec. 3, if ever, in regard to the
purchase of the whisky by the man on Dec.
3? A. I don’t remember what time it was;
it was two or three days or possibly a week
after, I don’t remember the date at all.
Where were you standing in the sa-
loon when this whisky was purchased 2 A.
I was at the rear end, to the right as you
go in.
Q. How far away from Mr. McCormick?
A. Oh, probably 20 feet. Standing, waiting
for him to get through with Mr. Hayward.
Q. Were you in there at the time Hay-
ward went in 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, how were you waiting then for
him to get through with Mr. Hayward? A.
Well, I could not very well talk to him and
have Hayward talking to him too, not very
Well.
Q. You were standing 20 feet away? A.
Yes, sir; I moved away when Hayward
came in—that is, I did not know it was
Hayward when these two gentlemen came
in, but moved away.
Q. How are you able to fix the fact that
it was half pint of whisky that was
bought? A. Because I heard him ask for it;
he says, “Give me a half pint,” and I saw
the cash register ring up 40 cents.
Q. Are you well acquainted with Mr. Mc-
Cormick? A. Not very well, no, sir.
Q. Been in there frequently? A. Why,
since I have, yes, sir. -
Q. Had you been in there frequently be-
fore? A. No, sir,
Q. You were acquainted with Mr. Mc-
Cormick? A. I knew him, yes, sir.
Q. You were conversing with Mr. McCor-
mick on matters at the time these gentle-
men came in 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember what you were con-
versing about? A. No, sir.
Q. Then you started and went away
about 20 feet in order to let these men do
their trading and then you went back and
continued you conversation with Mr. Mc-
Cormick? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you drank anything while you
were in there? A. No, sir, not a thing. I
went in to get my skates. I left them in
there the night before, the Saturday night.
rather. I would not have to carry them
home.


122 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Where is the memorandum you speak
of 2 At the office. There is nothing on it
to show anything about this transaction; it
is simply private matters.
Q. Well, you said you had made a mem-
orandum of it, as I understood you? A. Of
what?
Q. I don’t know what—what was it you
made a memorandum of 2 A. My own per-
sonal doings on that day, that is all.
Q. Well, what did you put down?
Mr. Nye-Well, I object to that as imma-
terial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Smith–He speaks of his making a
memorandum on the 3d day of December,
and I just want to know what he put
down.
The Court—Well, that is objected to, and
the objection is sustained.
Mr. Smith–Please note an exception.
And I will ask at this time that the Wit-
ness produce the memorandum which he
says he made on this occasion, and by
which he is enabled to refresh his memory.
The Court–He says he hasn't got it here.
Mr. Smith—Well, I ask that he produce
it this afternoon.
The Witness—I don’t know as I can; it
is a personal matter anyway.
Mr. Nye-Well, you won't have to pro-
duce it unless the court says so.
Mr. Smith–He says he has a memoran-
dum, and I would like to have it.
The Court–Well, you have no business
to know anything about his private mat-
ters.
Q. When did you consult this memo-
randum last? A. I don't remember.
Q. You have consulted it since that time?
A. Oh, I suppose I have read it over.
The Court—If he has no objection show-
ing it to you I have not; but I cannot com-
pel him to show his private matters.
Mr. Smith–Weil, the counsel for the de-
fense requests that the witness be in-
structed to produce the memorandum
which he says he made at the time, and to
which he referred in refreshing his mem-
ory in this matter.
The Court–Have you any objection?
The Witness—I have.
The Court—Then the court will not order
it.
Mr. Smith–I desire an exception to the
rulin.
Thomas E. Kennedy
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Kennedy, where do you live? A.
2924 Sixteenth avenue south. I am in the
employ of the Milwaukee company as
flagman at the Lyndale avenue crossing
of the H. and D. division of the Milwau-
kee road at Twenty-ninth street.
Q: What hours are you on duty there?
A. From 3 o'clock in the afternoon until
about half past 12 at night.
Q. Were you so employed on the 3d day
of December last? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have any place to go in, any
house or shanty there, station? A: Yes,
sir. We call them shanties, small houses.
Q. On the evening of Dec. 3d, 1894, be-
tween the hours of 8 and 10, I will say, or
anywhere about that time, do you remem-
ber of any person calling at your station
or shanty there? A. Yes, sir, there was
a man came there as I was sitting in the
shanty close to the door, with my legs
crossed, and he came and pushed the door
open, and it came against me, I was
sitting so near it, and he says, “Oh, you
ain’t the man that used to be here?” I.
said, “Well, no.” And he said, “There
used to be a one-armed man here?” I sº
Yes, he is now on Dupont avenue.” and
With that he excused himself and went Out
". º the door to. -
- ave you seen any m -
would take to be that . .* §.
sir. I saw him after he was a. prison.
º º º, I saw him in the jail, ps.
en an o” - -
of December. clock, on the 21st or 22d
- Q. Did you take any notice of
it Was that he came to the .."
Well, it was between 8 and 9 o'clock I
think. I should judge it was at that time
before 63, the freight train, went out: this
freight train is supposed to leave the 'y.
at 8:30; the yard down south at 8:30. The
train s very irregular in getting past
there; it is all the way from 8:50 to 9:50
and along there. As a usual thing it come
along somewhere in the neighborhood of 9
o'clock, sometimes a little after and some-
times a little before. It never starts be-
fore 8:30; never starts before the time to
leave, no, sir. -
Q. That train would get there all the
way, then, from 8:45 to 9:45? A. Yes, sir,
als late as 10 o'clock. They have to wait
sometimes for the river division freight, as
I understand it.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. You have no way of fixing the time,
Mr. Kennedy, except by this freight train?
A. No, but I am pretty sure it was be-
tween 8 and 9 o'clock, although I could not
say exactly what time it was.
Q. Do you know anything about that
one armed switchman he inquired about?
A. Yes, sir, but he is not a switchman, he
is an operator, but he used to be there un-
til they moved the operating stand up to
Dupont.
Q. Do you know what that one armed
flagman's name is? A. Yes, sir, his name
is Richard Cahill.
Q. Did Blixt come back in your place
there again after that a day or two from
Dec. 32 A. I don’t know whether it was
Blixt or not, I would not be positive, but
I thought so at the time.
Q. Well, was it the same man that open-
ed the door before? A. I thought so at
the time he opened the door and came
back.
Q. Well, when was it that he came back?
A. That was the next evening in the
neighborhood of 7 o'clock.
Q. You believe that was the same man?
Mr. Nye That is objected to as leading.
Mr. Smith–He says that was the same
In a n.
The Court—You may ask him again.
Q. You believe that was the same man?
A.. I did believe so at the time it was the
same man. I have been in doubt about it
afterwards.
Q: What time did he come back, about
7 you say? A. I think somewhere in the
neighborhood of 7 o'clock; between 6 or 7.
He came inside the shanty.
Q. Just simply informed you what he
said and did?
Mr. Nye-This does not appear to ba







OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
123
the same man and I don't think it is ma-
terial.
The Witness—Well, I don’t know whether
It was the same man or not, I could not
be positive.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Q. Just state what he said and did? A:
I was reading a paper at the time, and
there was a man came up to the door and
stepped in, and I took off my spectacles
and looked at the man as he came in and
thought to myself there is the same man
that came to the door last night. He didn't
say anything, he stepped to my left hand
side, I faced the north, and he stepped up
between me, in front of the stove between
me and the window on the left hand side
of me, and as he didn't say anything I re-
marked I had just read there was a mur-
der. He kind of made a start and said,
“Hal” something like that, and he didn’t
say anything else. And I said, “That was
a horrible way of murdering a woman,”
something like that. And he says, “Was it
a young woman?” And I said, “The pa_
pers state she was 29 years old.” Then
he says, “Have they got the murderer?”
And I hadn't read only just a part of what
was published and I did not know. And
finally I says, “Why, no, but a crime of
that sort, very likely the man will get
caught, because it is impossible for a man
to get away from a crime of that sort,”
and he says, “I guess so.” And just at that
time there was a car coming down and I
saw him lean forward and look out, and
he turned his back to me and went out
and took the car, I suppose, for I saw a
man getting on there, and I supposed it
was the same man.
Q. About what time was that, 7 o'clock?
A. Yes, I think between 6 and 7, some-
where near that.
Q. You had no doubt then that it was
the same man that stepped in the door
the night before?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
He stated once what he thought of it at
the time and what he thought of it since.
Q. Did you notice how the man was dress-
ed, the man who came in there on the
night of the 3d and put his head in the
door? A. Yes, sir, I did; I noticed he had
kind of a light coat and vest on and a cap,
kind of a plush cap, it was a cap that
comes to a peak in front and generally
arose from the peak here and came up
around here. (Indicating.)
Q. Did you notice how the man was
dressed that came into your shanty on the
night of Dec. 4? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How? A. He was changed a good
deal in appearance and that is one reason
why I didn’t think it was the same man.
He had on a dark rough cheviot, or dark
or bluish rough cheviot coat and a white
shirt and collar and he had been closely
shaved, looked as though he had just come
from the barber shop, and I don't know
whether it was a dark blue or black coat
he had on, but I think it was a dark blue
rough cheviot, rough goods.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
He seemed well dressed and cleanly
shaven, with an overcoat on, did he-the
second man you saw there? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What kind of a coat did he have on
there, you say he was entirely different in
dress and appearance? A. He had on a
square cut coat buttoned up, and it was of
dark color, dark bluish color or black cloth,
rough cheviot, I believe that is what they
call the goods.
Q. Entirely different from the coat you
saw on the man who came there the night
before? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He had on a white shirt? A. White
shirt and collar.
Q. Rather well dressed ? A. Yes, sir;
and he had a plush cap on. It was dif-
ferent from the cap the man had on the
night before.
Q. Do you remember whether he had
gloves or mittens—this second man? A.
Yes, sir; the second man had gloves on,
either kid or dog skin; they had ben worn
somewhat, but they were not so much worn
that they did not look well with the suit.
I noticed it when he stood so close to me—
he was not more than two feet from me,
he was standing to my left all the time.
Q. Did you notice him take off his gloves
at any time? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice him particularly? A.
I did not notice him particularly, but I did
not notice him taking off any gloves—the
left hand was next to me and it had a
glove on.
Q. You came to the conclusion after-
wards, as I understand you, that that
could not be the same main that you saw
the first night? A. No, I did not come to
that conclusion exactly, but I was doubt-
ful about it. I still feel a little doubtful
sometimes; I did not have much of a look
at him when he came in, because he stood
to the right and his face was always from
me, and I could not look at the man unless
I turned and looked up at him.
Q. You say that his coat was buttoned
up? A. It was a square coat buttoned up.
One of those late square cornered frock
coats, double breasted and buttoned up.
I took him to be very little taller than I
am; I am about five feet five and a half,
and I took him to be about five feet seven,
I should judge. Not more than that.
Q. Was he slim, rather? A. No, sir; he
was a pretty round built man, heavy for
his size. He had pretty good sized hands.
I could see just a small portion of his shirt
and collar. I did not notice the neck tie.
I know that his neck looked pretty well
dressed.
Q. Did you notice whether it was a turn-
ed down or a stand up collar? A. I think
it was a stand up collar with a little turn
at the corner. I just had a glance at him
When he came in the door and I noticed he
had a white collar on.
-RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. The height of the man who came there
Dec. 4 corresponded with the height of the
man who came there on Dec. 3? A. Well,
the man who came there on Dec. 3 was in
a kind of stooping position as he came into
the door and of course I could not see his
height very well; but I would have thought
they were about the same height. -
Q. How about the voice of the main who
came in on the evening of Dec. 4—how did
it compare with the one who came in on
the night of the 3d 2 A. Well, you see, the
main that came there on the night of Dec.
3, he spoke in a quick way, he spoke in a
hurried sort of a way, and went away n
a hurried sort of a way, and the one that


º OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
came in there when he said anything I
took him from the sound of his voice to
be a German.
Q. Well, how about the general build of
the man that came in there on the 3d and
the main that came in there on the 4th 2 A.
Well, I did not see the main so well on the
evening of the 3d, because he leaned in the
door in such a way that I could not see all
of him; there was a shade there and stand-
ing back from the door a little, of course
I did not notice him.
Q. Well, don't you believe, Mr. Kennedy,
that the man that was there on Dec. 3 was
the man that was there on Dec. 4, only his
clothes had been changed?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as leading.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
A. Well, as I stated, when the man
came in I took him to be the same man
that was there before, but I would not be
positive about it.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You do not now believe that he is?
A. Well, as I said, I would not be posi-
tive, that is all.
Q. You explained the circumstances of
the man coming there on the 3d of Decem-
ber when I requested you to go up and see
this man, didn't you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And also came down here and saw
the man and we had some little talk after-
wards? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I explained to you that I was the
eounty attorney and was investigating the
case, do you remember that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And at neither of these interviews
you mentioned the fact of the man coming
there the second night? A. No, sir, I was
not asked about the second night, and I
didn’t say anything about it.
Q. Well, you would not very well be
asked about it if I did not know anything
about it. Now, was it not a fact it was a
mere suspicion that struck your mind when
the man came in there that it was the
man who came in there the first night, and
it was of so little importance that you did
not tell me about it? A. Well, if he had
not looked so much like the man that was
there the night before I would not have
thought of it; if he had not looked so lauch
like him.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. With whom did you go to see Blixt;
who went with you to see Blixt in the
jail? A. Well, I could not tell you the gen-
tleman's name that opened the door that
let us up; I think Mr. Nye was one of
them.
Mr. Nye-I did not go into the jail with
you. A. Well, I think that is one of them
over there. The gentleman at the end of
the table. I don’t know the man's name.
C. E. Hance
Sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Hance, you know Mr. Hayward?
A. Well, only by sight.
Q. Did you see Harry Hayward anywhere
in the forenoon of Dec. 3 last? A. Yes, sir,
in Thomas Lally's saloon. Probably be-
tween 10 and 11. He came in and bought a
half pint of whisky. There was a gentle-
man with him. I had seen him before, but
I did not know him.
Q. Do you know whether Harry took any
liquor that morning; whether he drank?
A. He did not.
Q. Do you know whether the companion
that came with him drank? A. No, sir, he
did not either.
Q. Do you remember where Harry put it,
into which pocket he put it?
Mr. Erwin–Let me say to you, Mr. Hall,
unless you desire to bring out some cir-
cumstance in relation to this matter, Mr.
Hayward will be on the stand and he will
admit he bought the whisky, and a half
pint of it, between 10 and 11 o'clock, and no
time need be taken on that question, un-
less there is some circumstance you desire
to bring out in regard to the buying of it.
The Court—Then the fact of his pur-
chasing the liquor will not be contra-
dicted 2
Mr. Erwin–No, sir. Mr. Hayward will
testify to it.
Philip Stanton
Sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. What is your business? A. Switch-
man for the Twin City Rapid Transit Com-
pany. Am stationed at First avenue south
and Washington.
What were your hours, beginning on
the 1st of December? A. From 6 in the
evening to 12 at night.
Q. Do you know Claus A. Blixt, the
man who was a witness in this case, when
you see him? A. Yes, sir; I know him by
sight.
Q. Do you remember seeing him at or
about that time? A. I saw him one even-
ing, but I cannot say what time it was. It
was some time the latter part of November
or the commencing of December; the latter
part of the evening.
Q. Had you seen him at any time either
before or after that time, but only on one
occasion ? A. No, sir; just that once. He
asked me whether I recollected him, and I
told him no; and he told me he used to be
a conductor on the First avenue line, and
I told him I recollected his face then.
Q. Was he with you any length of time,
or just passing a word 2 A. Just about
two minutes, at the switch there on First
avenue south and Washington avenue. I
was at my work at the time Blixt came.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Have you any recollection as to the
hour when you saw him, whether when
you went on work or late at night? A.
No, it was in the evening. It was dark.
Q. Are you sure about that? A. No, I
am not positive. He spoke to me first.
Q. What did he say? A. He asked me
if I recollected him and I said no.
Q. Precisely. Had you ever seen him
before? A. I saw him on the First avenue
car line When he used to be conductor.
Q. Did he say anything about the Bloom-
ington car? A. Not as I recollect. He
told me he used to be conductor on the
First avenue line and I said I recollected
his face. That is all that was said and he
left me.
Q. Do you know whether he got on the
car? A. I do not.
Q. Was there anybody with him? A.
Not that I remember.
Q. Were you there on duty every night
during the whole of November and the
first part of December? A. Every other
night.





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
Q. Then you changed off with a fellow
workman, who had one night and you had
the succeeding night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The second day before this conversa:
tion you would have been on work there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. But you would not have been on the
night before? A: No, sir.
Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock
p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. S.
Philip Stanton
Resumed his testimony, examined by Mr.
Nye. -
Q. You said you were on duty every
other night there on the 1st, 3d and 5th 2 A.
Yes.
J. A. Witherspoon
Sworn. Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q: What is your business? A. I run the
elevator in the Oneida block.
Q. Were you the elevator man there dur-
ing the months of November and Decem-
ber, 1894? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Hayward has his business office
in the Oneida block? A. Yes, sir, on the
seventh floor, the top floor.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward and
W. W. Hayward? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know Miss Ging by sight? A.
Yes.
Q. Prior to the 3d day of December, did
you see Miss Ging in the Oneida block? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. More than once? A. Yes, sir. I
should say she has been there three or four
times; I could not say the exact number of
times.
Q. She went up on the elevator with you,
did she? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you remember an occasion on or
about the 24th of November, in which she
was in the block? A. Well, I would not
say as to the date. I know about that
time.
Q. Did you witness any business tran-
saction? A: I did. The signing of a note.
Harry asked me to come in and witness it.
He came out to the elevator and called me.
He called me up. I was at the bottom
when he called. He rung for me. When I
got up there he asked me if I would come
in as a witness to the note and I did.
Q: Who was in there? A. Miss Ging,
Harry Hayward and this man named Blixt.
Q. Had you taken Miss Ging up there
before? A. Yes.
Q. How long before? A. Probably 15 or
20 minutes; probably not that long.
Q. Now, state to the court and jury what
was done after you got in there? A. Well,
Harry came out and asked me to come in
and witness a note. I went in and Miss
Ging was sitting at the desk, and Harry
was standing up. When I went in Miss
Ging was sitting at the desk, and Harry
was standing at the other end. She was
just about to write her name on a note,
small piece of paper. Harry had a lot of
money in his hand, there was two pack-
ages, I think. After she signed the note he
says to me, “Now, you sign it as a wit-
mess;” and pushed it across the desk to
ºne, and I signed it, and as I was signing,
he handed out that money and says, “Here
is the money; you can step right in the
next room and count it.” She was sitting
when I went out. She had the money in
her hand then.
Q. Did she go in 2 A. Not while I was
there.
Q. Had the money in her bands and you
stepped out to the elevator? A. After I
had signed the note and just as I was go-
* out he says to Blixt, “Now, you sign
t.”
Q. You stepped immediately out as soon
as you had signed the note? A. Yes,
probably in a minute or two minutes.
Q. After you went out and took the
elevator did you see Harry afterwards? A.
Yes, sir
Q. Did you see Miss Ging afterwards?
A. Yes, six.
Q. Did he ever come to the elevator?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State what was done and said 2 A.
I was called up there and Miss Ging step-
ped into the elevator, Harry says to her,
“You found the money all right.” she said
“Yes,’’ and she went down and Harry
went back in the office, and she went down
in the elevator.
Q. Do you know whether or not Miss
Ging went back on the elevator after-
wards? A. I could not say as to that; so
many people going up and down there
that I don't remember.
Q. You know as a matter of fact she
went up and down there several times in
the office? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long after this circumstance that
you have related when Harry came with
her to the elevator, before you again saw
Harry? A. I don’t know; I think I went
up into the office a few minutes after that.
Q. In his office? A. I think I did.
Q. Do you know what for? A. Nothing
in particular; just happened to go in there.
Q. Was Harry there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was Blixt there? A. Yes.
Q. Did you hear anything said in there?
A. No, sir, I don’t know that there was
anything said while I was there.
Q. Did you see Harry in the elevator or
any one else shortly after? A. I think
maybe Blixt went down shortly after that.
Q. Did you hear them say anything 2 A.
Blixt spoke about seeing lots of money;
something like that—I paid not so much at-
tention to it. -
Q. This is state's exhibit G. I will ask
you if this is the note that you witnessed?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is your signature? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see Harry or Miss Ging
again that day, do you remember? A. I.
did not see Harry. -
Q. Do you remember whether you saw
her? A. I think I did. I think they were
up there again in the afternoon; I would
not say for sure. -
Q. About what hour was this that you
went in to witness the note? A. In the
morning, just before dinner; I should think
about 11 o’clock.
CEROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You were well acquainted with Harry?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long had you known him? A.
Five years and a half. Harry got me to
come over here and work there.
Did Harry office with his father in
the same office? A. Yes.



--~~ OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. Is it his father's office you refer
to as Hayward's office? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is the top floor. When you get
out of the elevator; you go in the elevator
in the Oneida block upon one side, and
when you get out of the elevator on that
floor you get out of the other side of the
elevator? A. Yes, sir, you do now.
Q. Now, on this day, shortly before 12
o'clock, a bell rung and you went up to the
top floor? A. Yes.
Q. Did Harry ask you to come in and
witness a note? A. Yes.
Q. You went in and Harry had in his
hand, you say, some packages of money?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Describe to the jury the packages.
A. Two packages, I should think about
that thick (witness illustrating), and he
had it in envelopes, these large white en-
velopes.
Q. After he got in the office, I will ask
you if at any time he took the money out
and laid it on the table? A. As to that,
I don't remember that he did. I don't re-
member that I see it laying on the table
at all. It looked like money.
Q. When you went in Miss Ging was
there? A. Yes; had her hat on.
Q: Who signed first? A. She did.
Q. Then Harry pushed the note over to
you? A. I don't know whether Harry push-
ed it or she pushed it; I don't know which.
Q. Did they call you in as elevator boy;
you have been in the five years frequently
called into the offices to witness papers?
A.. I have been different times.
Q. On all the floors? A. On different
floors.
Q. You would remember, would you not;
I want to ask you if you would not remem-
ber if Miss Ging was there signing a note,
didn't you see the note? A: I glanced there.
Q. You saw it was a $7,000 note? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you recollect where she carried the
packages when she went out? A. Had
them under her arm. -
Q. Some packages? A. They looked like
it.
Q. Where did she go with
She went out on the street.
Q: What hour of the day was this? A.
I think about 11 o'clock in the morning.
Q. If she had come up and gone up in
the elevator in the course of 10 minutes,
wouldn't you remember? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did anybody take the elevator for the
next 30 minutes? A. Nobody took it until
12 o'clock. -
Q. If she had come up under these cir-
cumstances within the next 10, 15 or 20
minutes, wouldn't you now remember;
wouldn't you be apt to? A. Liable to. -
Q. Doesn't an elevator man, something
like a conductor in a car, get in the habit
of memorizing faces? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And have a sort of unconscious mem-
ory which remembers better than common
men on these things?
Objected to. tained
jection sustained.
*** ask you whether you yourself
had not now got a sort of automatic men-
ory on these matters: by reason of º,
service as an elevator nº for five years'.
Objected to as immaterial. Overruled.
X I think I have, for a memºry of
*search your memory; have you any
recollection of her coming upstairs again
after taking this money down, within the
them 2 A.
next 15 minutes? A. I don’t think she did.
Q. How long afterwards was it that
Blixt and Harry went down the elevator?
A. Several minutes; I could not say; a.
little while after. Blixt spoke about seeing
a lot of money; I did not pay much atten-
tion about it.
Q. Let me ask you whether you have
ever seen Harry have lots of money? A.
I have. Generally in a roll with a rubber
around it.
Q. You have seen him have a great deal
of money during the last part of last year,
different times? A. Yes.
Q. That was not concealed from you?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Have you ever noticed any large de-
nomination of bills with him at any time?
A. Yes, sir. I have seen as high as a
hundred.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You took an hour off at noon? A.
Erom 12 to 1.
Q. Who takes your place during that
hour? A. The janitor.
Q. Who is the janitor. A. Ed. Kelly.
Q. Do you recall how long before you
went to dinner this was 2 Did you witness
the note? A. I could not say as to the
number of minutes; I should think about
11 o'clock; it was as near as I can remem-
ber. -
Q. You simply don’t remember whether
she went back or not? A. I don’t remem-
ber, no, sir.
Mr. Erwin–You don’t remember that she
did go baek? A. No, sir, I do not.
Harry H. Spencer
Was then sworn, and examined by Mr.
Nye.
Q. What is your business? A. Waiter at
the Continental restaurant.
Q. Were you waiting at that place dur-
ing the month of December and after, some
time preceding that? A. I was. Know
Harry Hayward.
Q. Did you ever see Miss Ging and
Harry Hayward together at that restau-
rant? A. I did.
Q. When was the last time you ever saw
the two there together? A. It was in the
latter part of November, I believe. It was
about the middle of the week, Wednesday
or Thursday, I should say Wednesday pre-
ceding Thanksgiving day.
Q. On that day will you relate the cir-
cumstances and the time when Miss Ging
first came there? A. Well, the lady, she
came in first; a few minutes, five minutes
afterwards, Mr. Hayward joined her, about
1 o'clock in the afternoon, at the table and
then I went to take their order. When I
came back to take the order I saw a roll
of money displayed. Hayward, he called
my attention to it and he said, “Don’t you
think it is awful foolish for a woman to
carry that much money with her, $2,000?"
Q: Who said $2,000? A. Mr. Hayward;
and I thought it was; I coincided. I said,
yes, sir; it is rather foolish, and not very
safe to carry that much money. I spoke
to him as if I doubted as to the amount of
money there was, he said, “Yes, there was
$2,000 there.”
Q. How large a roll of money was it?
A. It was a roll of money about the size of
that glass on the table (referring to an or
dinary-sized glass.)
Q. Rolled up? A. Very tight. rubber







of THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
127
there was: the lady kind of stooped down
and turned it back twice—she stooped
down and held that money in her hand.
Q. After that you saw the money before?
A. Had it in Miss Ging's hands. I don't
believe they had any lunch that day; they
just simply stopped in for a few minutes,
and I believe they had some drink of some
kind.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. And now, what time in October do you
think that it was, to the host of vour
memory? A. I could not tell? A. I could
not fix the date at all. -
Q. Now, all that you know on that occas-
ion was that you saw in her hands a
package of bills about an inch thick? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And those bills were apparently out
for the purpose of some transaction, but
what it is you don't know? A. No, sir.
Q. Nor any of the circumstances of it?
A. No, sir.
Q. And they did not come in there appar-
ently to eat, but came in there apparently
to have a drink and have this transac-
tion. A. That is the way it seems to me.
Q: Did they drink summer drinks? A.
I believe the lady did; I could not say; so
many drinks I served. -
Q. Does Harry Hayward drink? A. Well,
I don't believe I ever saw him drink to any
great extent.
Q. Did you ever see him drink any strong
liquor? A. I believe I saw him drink a
cocktail.
Q. Is that the extent of your knowledge
of his drinking? A. That is about as far.
Q. Well, now, on this Wednesday, which
was the 28th of November, on this Wednes-
day, the 28th of November, at about 1 p. m.
Miss Ging came into the restaurant, did
sheº A. She did.
Q. Dressed in her street dress? A. Yes.
Q. You think she wore a cape; you did
not look at her attire very much? A. No,
sir, never do.
Q. Wasn't it a sealskin cloak she had
on? A: I could not say; it may have been.
Q. You saw it was Miss Ging, you knew
her? A. I did not know the lady by name
then. I seen her a good many times.
Q. Seen her there with Harry a great
many times? A. Yes, sir, did not know
Harry's name.
Q. You have seen her there with other
gentlemen; have you not? A. I think there
was once, but I am not sure.
Q. On this occasion did you see Miss
Ging before she sat down, do you recollect?
A. I showed her into the room, a private
roon.
Q. Did she say anything to you when
you took her to the room? A. I seated her,
and she said she expected a friend of hers
that was coming that way. I knew who
she meant.
Q. How long did she stay there before
Harry came? A. Not more than 10 minutes.
Q. When he came in, did he ask if Miss
Ging was there? A. Yes, sir, and I showed
him back to the room where she was. I
don't know whether he asked me at all.
Just motioned to him and showed him into
the room.
Q. How was he dressed; did he have his
overcoat on 2 A. He did.
Q. Now he went in the room and did you
immediately serve them—did you go in with
him? A. No, sir, I did not.
band, I should judge, around it. I remember
the outside of a bill. It was a $10 note, a
picture of Henry Vignette.
bill. It was a $10 note, a picture of Henry
Vignette.
Q. After you left them taking the order,
did you see where the roll of money was:
A. No, sir, I did not see it any more after-
wards, and I don't know who had it.
Q. Do you know whether Miss Ging car-
ried a hand-bag or satchel of any kind that
day? A. I could not tell.
Q. Did you see any? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see her lay off any wraps,
or lay aside any hand satchel, large
enough to carry a roll of money as big as
that? A. I believe she wore a cape, but
that is as near as I could say. What kind
of a cape or coat I could not say; I don’t
know whether it was cloth or not.
Q. Did you see whether she carried a
muff? A. I don’t know that she had any.
Q. How long did they remain at that
place that afternoon, either of them? A.
About an hour.
Q. Did they go away together? A. I.
am not sure on that point. I could not say,
really I don't remember them going out.
They might have gone out when I was
down stairs; I don’t really remember the
time they did go.
Q. When last preceding this occasion,
had you seen those two people at that
same place before? A. Two weeks pre-
ceding; it was fully two weeks.
Q. What were the circumstances of that
fact to which your mind now relates? A.
Well, I remember they came in for some
lunch and some refreshments. I just re-
member them having several drinks to-
gether; I forget now exactly what it was.
Q. Did they drink more than once? A.
Yes, several times, I believe.
Who called for the drinks? A. Mr.
Hayward.
Q. Do you know whether Mr. Hayward
drank? A. He did.
Q. Was any money displayed on that oc-
casion 2 A. Not on that occasion; just
enough to settle the bill.
Q. Was there any other occasion when
the two were together, when you saw
money between them? A. There was. That
must have been as far back as October. It
may have been September.
Q. How large a sum of money or roll,
pile of money, was it that you saw on that
occasion? A. Well, the money that I did
see then, it was not in a roll; it was just
a pile of bills held in the hand like this
(indicating). I should say about an inch
thick.
Q. What did you see happen to that pile
of bills? A. I seen it change hands there.
I don't know whether Miss Ging handed it
to Harry or whether it was the other
Way.
Q. When you first saw that pile of bills
in whose hands was it? A. Miss Ging's.
Q. You say you saw it pass hands? A.
I did not see it pass hands. From the con-
versation I should infer there was some
sort of transaction with the money
changed. I don’t know whether Miss Ging
handed him the money afterwards or
whether she had just got it from him.
Q. Was there anything occurred at that
time to indicate to you from whom the
money was coming and to whom it was
going? A. To the best of my recollection





128 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
|
Q. How long after they were in the room
before you were called in the stall or room?
A. It must have been four or five minutes.
Q. You say you went into this room, and
what was ordered—did they order some-
thing to eat? A. Yes, sir. It was Golden
Buck that Harry ordered, I believe, and
Miss Ging she did not have anything but a
cup of cocoa and stewed potatoes; she said
at the time she did not feel well enough to
eat meat.
Q. When did you first see the money,
when you were in there, or when you went
in there to serve them 2 A. When I came
in to take the order.
Q. Where was the money when you went
in 2 A. She had it in both hands, and was
tossing it up like this. (Illustrating.)
Who was she looking at when she
was tossing it up? A. No one in particu-
lar.
Q. Who spoke first? A. Harry Hay-
ward.
Q. In a pleasant way, or in a nervous
way? A. Spoke very natural. He said:
“Harry, don’t you think it is awful foolish
for a woman to display so much money,
$2,000 in that roll.”
Q. How many times had she been in
there, she and Harry together, and been
waited upon by you—what acquaintance did
you have with hitme? A. About 15 times
anyway.
Q. You knew them well, you knew they
went together, and you waited upon them
and they knew you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you always waited upon them?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So your acquaintance was of a chair-
acter that he could say to you this, without
insulting the lady? A. Yes, sir.
. He says, “Don’t you think it is awful
foolish for this lady to carry,” what? A.
To carry a large roll of bills like that,
$2,000 in that.
Q: What did she say? A. She said I am
not afraid, she said no one would harm me
in the day time. I would not display it at
night. -
Q. Did she look like a woman who could
take care of a couple of thousand dollars?
Objected to as incompetent and imma-
terial.
Sustained.
Q. Were the woman and the man and
the conversation natural? A. It seemed
natural enough.
Q. Did it seem to you natural? A. It
seemed natural enough to me.
Leopold Metzger
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your business? A. Jewelry
business. We have two places, one on
Washington and one on Nicollet.
Q. Whereabouts is the Washington ave-
nue place? A. 209 south.
Q. You know the man, Claus A. Blixt?
A. Not any more than by sight.
Q. Did you see nim at or about your
place at any time on December 3d last? A.
Yes. About, I should judge, a quarter to
10 or 10 o'clock, he came to the door in the
evening; the door was locked, and he rap-
ped; that is, he tried to get in very hard,
and we let him in. I asked him what he
wanted. He said he would like to have
his watch repaired. I says, “It is pretty
late; we don’t do any repairing at this
time—he would have to leave it until
morning, until the watchmaker came.” I.
asked him for his name.
Q. He gave you his name? A. C. Blixt.
was all. He left his watch.
Q. Was the watch running at the time
that he left it? A. Well, I don't know.
Did you notice at what time the
watch had stoppedº A. No, sir.
Q. Is there any circumstance by which
you are able to fix the time of night when
this occurrence took place that you have
described 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q: What circumstance is that? A. We
have what we call Holmes’ Electrical Pro-
tection on the safe, and that was closed at
9:47, and it was probably five minutes after
that that he called; and I left the watch
out on the watchmaker's bench on that
night.
Q. And under that system that you de-
scribe, is the time of the locking kept a
record of? A. The time of the locking we
do not keep any record of; they keep a
record of it at the office and send us a re-
port.
Q. So you know the time it was locked
positively? A. Yes, sir.
This was a short time after the lock-
ing? A. Probably five or ten minutes.
Q. I show you the check, State's Exhibit
G, and ask you if you recognize it? A.
Yes, sir. This is a check from our place.
The corresponding check to the check that
is left with the watch, is fastened with the
watch.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Did he sign the card? A. No, but he
wanted to. I signed it, that is, I put his
name on a tag, a little tag we hang on
these watches. We don’t give tags, we
keep the tags ourselves.
Mr. Hall—The name of the firm which
you were employed with is what? A. S.
Jacobs & Co. I am one of the firm.
Mr. Erwin–Now, Mr. Metzger, you have
a pretty clear recollection of what took
place that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What makes your recollection clear?
A. Well, it happened to be the first night
that we kept open during the year, Monday
night. The first came on Saturday, and
Sunday we closed, and Monday night we
were to keep open on account of the holi-
days.
Q. Your habit has been to close your
store at 6 o'clock? A. Six o'clock every
night.
Q. This was the first day that you kept
Open 2 A. The first day of December, yes.
Q. Now, is there anything else that
makes you remember particularly the cir-
cumstances or conditions? A. Well, as a
usual thing we did not open up for any-
body that would come and rap, but he was
quite anxious to get in. Lights were all out
with the exception of four electric lights
in the back end. My partner was with
me. No customers in the store and
business was closed. He rapped four or
five times to get in.
Q. How long was he rapping there? A.
Well, a minute or so, possibly a half a
minute.
Q. Where did he take the watch from
when he handed it to you? A. I don't
know; I was rather anxious to get away
and close up.
Q: What did he say was the matter with



OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
129
it? A. He said that it stopped, stopped
running.
Q. When did he say it stopped? A. He
did not say; if he did, I don't remember.
He came into the store alone.
Q. Was he alone on the sidewalk or
somebody else there? A: I did not look
out on the sidewalk.
Q. Did you notice whether there was any-
body there when you went to the door?
A. No, sir. I know there was nobody in
the door at the time.
Q. How long was he there altogether?
A. Just long enough to take his watch
out, and we gave him a check and wrote
his name on it. Two minutes.
Q. Now, when did Blixt next come
there? A. He did not come there; I have
got the watch yet.
Q. Did you repair the watch? A. No,
the watchmaker repaired it.
Q. You don’t know what was the matter
with the watch? A. Yes, I do; that is,
the last time that he brought it. A little
screw had worked out of the balance wheel
and dropped into the movements. That
was all.
Q. Now, you don’t know what time the
watch stopped—do you know that, or does
your watchmaker know? A. I don’t know.
In fact I did not recognize the fact that
this was Blixt until after he mentioned it
to me himself, that is, after they had start-
ed to suspect Blixt of this crime, and I
don't know whether he fixed it up or not,
I know at any rate he had a horror for
the watch, and he gave it to me to put in
the safe. He did not want to wind it any
more.
Q. I ask you for information whether he
had knowledge that he knew when it
stopped? A. I could not tell you now.
John Morrissey
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Police officer of this city? A. Yes, sir,
I am on special duty.
Q. Where were you on the night of Dec.
3? Whereabouts on duty? A. Central
station.
Q. At what place and at what time did
you receive any information that called
your attention to the circumstances out of
which has grown this trial? A. It must
be about half past eleven, or somewhere
between that and a quarter of twelve.
Q. Where did you go immediately after
that? A. Went from there over to the
lock-up alley, and took a horse and buggy
and drove up to the livery barn on Grant
street. Then went to the Ozark flats.
Shortly after we got up there Harry Hay-
ward came up and I think young Mr. Goos-
man. I think they were talking when they
came up stairs together. We were on the
upper floor looking for this Miss Ging's
room, and the first I saw of Harry, he came
up on that floor, the fifth floor, I think.
You may describe to the jury the
language you heard used there by Harry,
what he said.
A. Well, when he come up he was tell-
ing somebody where the room was, and I
stepped up to him and asked him “Are you
ºuainted with Miss Ging?” He said
Yes. who are you, detectives?” I said,
Yes, we are detectives.” He said, “Is
there somebody that will break the news
to Lou? I cannot.” I said, “Who is Lou?”
He said, “She is her niece in there.” He
walked up and down and requested some-
body to call her; and there was another
gentleman there and he told him to call
Mrs. Murray and have her call Lou. So
Mrs. Murray was called and we went in
there, Harry and us three officers, and I
think the other gentleman went, I don’t
know what his name was—he went in and
Miss Ireland, called Lou, came into the
room. As soon as Harry saw her, he said
“Lou, you know she has worked me; you
know I have given her money,” and Lou
said, “I don’t know what you mean.” And
he said “You know I was up there last
night about half past 7 and asked for
Kitty, and you said she was out and would
be back in a little while.” She said “Yes,
and you said you would be back right
away and I waited for you and you did
not come, and you said Kitty spoke some-
thing about going into business, and asked
Mrs. Murray, and she said she thought she
was not going into business.”
Q. Was there not some talk with Miss
Ireland in the presence of Harry at that
time about Miss Ging or her movements-
anything said there in Harry's presence?
A. There was something—I don’t just re-
member. I know we took Miss Ireland out
in the other room and talked with her
quite a while, and left Harry in Mrs. Mur-
ray's room.
Q. After talking with Miss Ireland for
some time, did you again see Harry? A.
Yes, sir. He was in the room there sitting
until we came out, and we all came out of
the room. We spoke to Harry, and came
out in the hall and he said, “I understand
if a person has any money in a vault and
they die or get killed, that they seal the
vault, and cannot get the money out; ain’t
you officers got authority to make them.
open the vault?” I says, “Why, where is
the money in the vault?” and he said, “She
has a box in the vault at the Minnesota.
Loan and Trust Company's, and if the
money ain’t in there,” he says, “I have
been worked.” We were then on the fifth
floor, started going towards the stairway;
we were going down. We walked down
stairs together. Officer Courtney asked
him a question on that floor just as we
got to the top of the stairs, he asked him
whom he thought suspicion pointed to for
this murder. He said suspicion pointed to
him more than any man on earth, but he
could tell where he was. This must be in
the neighborhood of half past 1 or 20 min-
utes past 1. -
Q. Now, after you came down, did any-
thing further occur? A. Yes, sir. He spoke
again about the vaults, about the same,
and asked again about them. Then we
walked down stairs, and Harry and I went
ahead, and the rest stayed up on the third
floor, I believe, and Harry and I sat down
on the stairway at the bottom of the stairs,
the Hennepin side there; we got to talking
there, and I asked him, I says, “Harry,
you spoke about giving this girl money;
how much money did you give her?” Well,
he looked up. He said, “I don’t want these
reporters to hear us.” “How much money
did you give her?” He said, “She has
every dollar I have got in the world.” I
says to him, “Was she a respectable girl?”
He says, “Yes, she was.” I says, “It
seems you have been going with her quite
a while.” He says, “Yes, I thought a good
deal of the girl; she has worked me. I
have been worked.” I said, “Did you in-


130
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
tend to marry her?” He dropped his head
a couple of seconds and said, “Yes, I did.”
Then he went to pull out letters, and the
reporters and other officers coming down he
put them back again, and said he would
get out of the way until the reporters
would get out of the way. So we walked
out towards the Thirteenth street side, and
the reporters, I think, went out Hennepin,
and he took us into the room there, took
myself and Officer Courtney and another
gentleman, I forget his name now, with
him in his room, and he pulled out two
letters. He read part of one of them.
Q. I will ask you to look at these two
letters and see if you recognize either of
them? A. I remember the heading of this
one here.
The letters was marked exhibit K and
L, and the envelop exhibit M.
The witness, continuing: He mentioned
this was the note that she gave the ele-
vator man to give to him, telling him that
she could not give him the money until
the first of the year.
Q. Did he at that time show you any
other letter or note? A. I don’t remember
of any. He said, “We just looked through
a duplicate of a letter that he had written
Miss Ging in answer to that note.” This
letter that he had he said was a copy of
the one he wrote her.
Q. I will ask you if you know where you
got this letter and what it is (shows wit-
ness). A. I disremember seeing this let-
ter. I saw Courtney pick up the letter.
Q. Were you with him when he got it?
A. Yes. -
Q. Do you know where he got it? A.
He got it in where Miss Ging was supposed
to be in the Syndicate Block, on the desk.
Mr. Hall—I will have it marked for iden-
tification.
The two pages of the letter were marked
Exhibit N-1 and N-2 and the envelope
N-3.
Q. After showing you these letters or
notes, what, if anything, further was said
or done by Harry in regard to this affair?
A. Well, I asked him again if there was
anybody else that he knew of that was
going with Miss Ging that he suspected of
any such thing; and he mentioned a man
by the name of Reed, in St. Paul, he said;
that was the only man he knew of; he
didn’t never see him. We walked out then,
come out of the room and Walked out on
the Thirteenth street side, and we stood
out there, and I think it was Officer Court-
ney who made the remark about a note
that Miss Ireland spoke about, a note that
her aunt had torn up into pieces at the
block that day, the day before.
Q. Did she speak of that in Harry's pres-
ence? A. Courtney spoke of it in Harry's
presence, yes, sir, at that time. This other
gentleman–I forget his name—he made a
suggestion it would be a good thing to go
down to her room before they swept out in
the morning and get all the pieces and put
the note together. He said, a mere is no
use doing that; she is too careful for any-
thing like that; you would never find any-
thing.” From there we went down and put
the horse in and went back up to Miss
Ging's dressmaking shop.
Q. Did you see anything more of Harry
Hayward that night? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you do at the Syndicate
Block? A. We called up the man in charge
there and went in her rooms and looked
over all the papers and picked up all those
little pieces of notes that we could find torn
around and brought them over to the
chief; Went down to headquarters.
Q: Did you make any examination of Miss
Ging's desk? A. Officer Courtney did.
Q. He examined the desk? A. Yes, sir
mostly. ' ' ' ' '.
Q. Do you recall anything further said
by Mr. Hayward that night or morning,
with regard to the money or annount of
money? A. Yes, sir, I asked him how
much money he had given her and he said
that he gave her $2,500 first; that she was
to give him back $2,500 when he was to
give her $7,000, and she was going to buy a
stock of goods and going into the millinery
business. I said “Harry, did you give this
Woman all this money?” He said, “Yes.” I
said, “What security did you have?” He
said, “I thought a good deal of the WOman,
a good business woman,” and he said she
Was going to buy this stock of millinery,
and he was going to take a chattel mort-
gage on the stock. I said, “Don’t you think
that was a queer way of doing business; I
Wonder you did not buy this and then
take a mortgage on it.”
Q. Buy what? A. Buy the millinery
stock. He said, “Yes, it was kind of care-
less,” and then spoke about her flashing
$2,000 in Barge's restaurant. He said he
was in Barge's restaurant with her and
she took out $2,000 and showed it to the
Waiter there, and I asked her why she did
not pay me the money she promised me
out of that $2,000, and I asked him, I said,
“Did you give her the $7,000 after she
flashed this $2,000?” He said, “Yes,” I
said, “Don’t you think it was kind of care-
less, the way she used money, to give her
$7,000 more afterwards?” He said she was
all right, good business woman, and he
thought she could make the money if she
got in business.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Mr. Erwin–I want the letters to cross-
examine With. -
Mr. Hall–We have not offered them.
Mr. Erwin-I will delay the cross-exami-
nation until I get hold of them.
Mr. Nye—You have such a way of de-
manding. I would just as soon you have
the letters, but you cannot have them on
demand. The letters will be offered by the
state.
Mr. Erwin–The letters were shown and
read by the officers and they were a part
of the conversation, and the conversation
was based upon them. Now, in order to
coherently examine this man I will have
to examine these letters.
The Court—I will state that I will not
compel the prosecution to put these letters
in; they may want to put them in.
Mr. Erwin–I don’t ask to have them put
1n.
The Court—They had a right to identify
them, and that is all they have done. Now,
you can go on and cross-examine the wit:
ness, and if there is anything that you
need to cross-examine him about the let-
ters, and they are put in evidence, the
court will give you an opportunity to do
S.O.
Mr. Erwin–I don’t want them to put the



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
131
letters in. I want the letters in my hand
to cross-examine with.
The Court—I shall not order them into
your hands. I haven’t any business to Go
on and cross-examine the witness.
Mr. Erwin–I will state here, and offer to
prove if it is denied, that these letters
were taken from the person and possession
of the defendant at the time of his arrest,
and were a part of his personal and private
papers.
The Court—It doesn't make any differ-
ence.
Mr. Erwin–I will also state in making
the offer that they are absolutely neces-
sary, upon the faith and word of counsel
to properly cross-examine the witness and
I call the attention of the court to the fact
that these letters were read at the time
of the conversation, and formed a part of
the subject matter of the conversation,
which has already been testified to.
The Court—I have decided it. There is no
use of talking.
Mr. Erwin–I want to take an exception.
What is the objection? I want the objec-
tion on the record.
The Court—The objection was that the
letters had not been introduced in evidence.
Mr. Nye-My objection was your demand.
Mr. Erwin–I ask the court to order these
letters in my possession for the purpose of
this cross-examination.
Mr. Nye-At the request of counsel I
gave them, by me carefully compared, a
copy of both these letters a week ago. I
do not object to an examination of these
letters, but I do not propose to have these
austere demands made here.
Mr. Erwin–I understand we have a copy
here, a copy of the letters that is suffi-
cient, but I ask for a copy of the letter
which he is said to have written, and
which was read there.
Mr. Hall—You have a copy.
Mr. Erwin–No, I have not the copy.
Mr. Hall–Oh, yes, you have.
Mr. Erwin–I find that counsel have a
copy of the letters from Miss Ging to Harry
Hayward, which they say is a copy, and I
have no doubt it is; but I demand for the
purpose of this cross-examination, that I
be permitted to inspect or take a copy of
the letter which has been identified here
passing from Harry Hayward to Miss Ging,
in order that I may properly examine this
witness.
The Court—There has not been a single
word said by the witness in reference to
the contents of that letter. It has simply
been identified and marked, and the court
would make itself ridiculous to order the
state's attorney to allow you to inspect
that letter until they got ready to offer
it in evidence.
Mr. Erwin—I respectfully enter an excep-
tion to the court's ruling.
Q. Now, officer, I don't think there is
any discrepancy in your testimony, except
on one point possibly; and I want to call
Your attention particularly to that. Harry
Hayward, you say, said he loaned the wo—
man $2,500? A. Yes, sir.
And then afterwards he loaned her
$7,000? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, then, you say he wanted $2,500
back. Now, conversations are slippery
things. Can you remember, is your mind
fixed upon the question, whether he said he
Wanted that $2,500 back, after he loaned
the $7,000, or before he loaned the $7,000–
will you attempt to say? A. He said that
she had promised to give him back this
$2,500 after he would give her $7,000.
Q. After? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I understood you to say the other
way in your direct examination? A: No,
sir.
Q. Now, did you read these letters? A.
No, sir, I did not read them.
Q. Did he read them to you? A. He
read just a few lines at the top of one
there, and I just looked over it where it
says: “Dear Kitty, you have your nerve
with you,”—I think it starts that way. He
said that was a duplicate, a copy of the
one that he had Written her.
Q: What did he read of the letter that
was from himself to her? A. I just re-
member that he read the top, but he says,
“I read a couple of lines of it”— he said
“This is a letter I wrote her in answer to
this note. He said: “This is a note say-
ing that she could not give me this money,
could not get it before the first of the
year.” - -
Q. State what was your testimony in re-
gard to the first letter that was shown
you here that was marked as an exhibit?
Mr. Hall—A letter from Miss Ging.
Mr. Erwin–Yes.
Q. You took the first letter which was
marked here since you have been on the
stand, apparently two sheets, as I saw it?
A. That was the copy, I think, of the let-
ter they claimed he wrote to her.
Mr. Nye-No, the letter from her.
Q. No, the first letter that you looked at
which you recognized as a letter you had
seen, and then the second one was the one
which he stated that the elevator boy
had— A. The first was the note, wasn’t
it?
Mr. Nye-That is the first one. (Handing
witness letter.)
Q. Now, that letter you testified you
saw 2 A. I saw something like that.
Q. Well, to the best of your knowledge,
ain’t that the letter? A. It looks like the
letter.
Q. Well, what do you say? A. I didn't
read the letter.
Well, look at it—what do you say—
to the best of your knowledge, is that the
letter? A. I think it is.
Q. That letter was shown to you by
Harry Hayward, for what purpose, to show
you that he had let her have $7,000, wasn’t
it? A. Well, that is what he pulled the
letters out for—when I asked him what he
thought she was working him for, and he
went into his pocket and pulled out these
letters. I didn't have them in my hand, I
think Officer Courtney had them, one of
them at least.
Mr. Erwin–I offer that letter in evidence
as a part of the cross-examination.
Mr. Nye–That is objected to as not prop-
er cross-examination.
Mr. Erwin-A letter which Hayward
hands to the officer, and the officer reads
and identifies it.
The Court—He said he only read a few
lines of it; it was not proper cross-examina-
tion and it is not competent to say any-
thing about the contents of the letter at
all. You can use the letter at some other
time, if you wish to.
The Witness—I only read a few lines in



132 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
that one letter, where it says, “Dear Kit-
ty.”
The Court—Well, the objection will be
sustained.
Mr. Erwin–The defendant offers to show
that the letter in question is in the follow-
ing words.
Mr. Nye-Don't read the letter.
The Court–No.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I will hand it to the re-
porter to copy.
Mr. Nye-I shall object to the letter as
incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial,
and improper at this time to read a copy
of that letter—and also not the best evi-
dence.
The Court—The objection is sustained on
lines in it; it is not proper cross-examina-
tion.
Mr. Erwin–I will have the reporter copy
it in the record.
The Court—There is no use in having the
reporter copy the letter.
Mr. Erwin–Well, it is the only copy we
have, and if we lose it we have no other.
Mr. Nye-We will admit that it is a copy.
Mr. Erwin–Very well, then.
Q. The second paper which you identi-
fied here upon the witness stand, exhibit
L., did you read that? A. No, I did not
read any of the letters. Officer Courtney
had the letters, and Harry held one in his
hands, I think–Harry read a couple of
lines of one of the letters, and he said it
was a duplicate of one he had written
Miss Ging.
Q. How do you identify, then, the sec-
ond letter, exhibit L, as being the one
that he said he got from the elevator boy?
A. Well, I think it looks like the letter;
I ain’t dead sure it is the letter.
The Court—He did not say it was posi-
tively, but he said it looked like it. A. I
couldn’t say for sure, because I didn't read
it.
Q. You only identify the paper as being
of the same character? A. It looks like
the same kind of letter.
Q. Well, did he read to you the sub-
stance of the letter, or state the contents to
you while he had the letter there—the first
one? A. He said that was the letter he
wrote her, as I understood him, asking her
for this money.
Q. Did he state to you the contents of
the letter from Miss Ging? A. No, I don't
remember that he did—yes, he did, one let-
ter there, he said that she said she could
not give him the money until the first of
the year.
Q. Well, I will show you a copy of that
letter—did you hear that read? A. No, I
didn’t hear that read.
Q: Would you know from looking at the
copy of the letter whether that was the
same substance? A. I don't know. (Refers
to letter.)
Mr. Nye-Objected to as not cross-exami-
nation.
The Court—The objection is overruled. I
understood you to say you read the letter?
The Witness—No, sir, I didn't.
The Court–Well, Harry stated the sub-
stance of the letter to you? A. No, it was
not this letter; it was the letter that he
claimed was a duplicate of one he wrote
to her.
The Court—Well, the objection is sus-
tained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Well, these letters he produced to
verify his declarations to you as officers
of the city, that he had loaned her this
money, the $7,000? A. I suppose that was
it.
Q. Now, when he met you in the hall, or
at any time there before you talked with
him or with Courtney, didn't he ask for the
chief of detectives or for Hoy? A. Yes, sir,
he did mention Hoy—he said he knew Hoy.
He asked me if Hoy was chief of detect-
lves.
Q. Didn't he say he wanted to see Chief
Hoy? A. No, that is all he said about
that; we told him that Hoy was not chief.
We told him we were all detectives, one as
good as the other.
- Thomas J. Britt
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. You are a police officer of the city of
Minneapolis? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Whereabouts were your duties in De-
cember last? A. From Tenth street to
Fifteenth on Hennepin and from Hennepin
to Nicollet.
Q. That is in the vicinity of the Ozark
flats that have been referred to? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward? A.
Yes, sir; have seen him about the Ozark
flats.
Q. Were you at that place, the Ozark
flats, on the night of Dec. 3? A. Yes, sir.
I was around there pretty much all night.
Q. What time did you first see Harry
Hayward in the vicinity of the flats that
night? A. About 11 o'clock. I was alone
when I first saw him—I was on the side-
Walk when I first saw him. I saw him
standing in the hall. I heard him before
I saw him; I was in the building when he
first came into the building.
Q. Where about in the building were you
then? A. At the telephone with Henry
Goosman.
Q. You saw him come into the building?
A. No, sir, but I heard him on the floor
below.
Q. Where did he go when you heard him
come in? A. He went down stairs in the
basement.
Q. You recollect how long he was down
stairs before you saw him again? A.
Well, I came out of the building before he
came up from down stairs; I came out very
soon after he went down stairs. I went
out on the street.
Q. Previous to that time you had re-
ceived some information about the runa-
way, or supposed runaway? A. Yes, sir,
from Henry Goosman, who came in a clos-
ed carriage to the Ozark Flats. He had
come there, I think, it was a few minutes
before 11.
Q. Well, where did you next see Harry
after you had come down, you say, after
Harry had gone into the basement, where
next did you see him? A. In the hall
fronting on Hennepin avenue, the first
floor.
Q. who was with you, if any one? A.
Mr. Goosman and Henry Goosman.
Q: What, if anything, did Harry say at
that time? A. Well, they were talking the
matter over and supposed that it was º
runaway accident, that some person was
hurt in a runaway out at Lake Harriet
and was put into this buggy and taken to
the drug store, and during the excitement



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 133
and getting the person into the drug store
that the horse got away. We all supposed
that on account of there being no breaks
in the buggy or scratches on the horse.
And then Harry said, “No —” well the first
of it was, I was standing on Hennepin and
Henry Goosman came along and inquired
of me if the wagon got back and I said
I did not know. And he asked me how
we could find out; and I said we could
go down to the box and telephone, that I
would telephone down to police headquar-
ters and then I thought awhile and I said
is there a telephone in the house? And
Henry says yes, and I says, “Let us go in
there.” So we went up stairs in the Ozark
and I called up police headquarters, and I
asked them if the wagon had got back from
Lake Harriet, and the reply was that the
wagon was down at the morgue, that they
were unloading the woman. I asked if the
woman was dead and they said yes. We
then called up the morgue and asked if the
woman was dead and they said yes. And
Henry Goosman called them up again and
asked for a description of the woman and
they said they could not give a description
of her for 15 or 20 minutes, that they were
just taking her in. And we stopped there
a while and in the meantime Harry Hay-
ward came in and I and Henry, we were
talking up stairs, talking about how the
buggy looked—there was a pool of blood
in the buggy and everything looked like
that and so on, and there was no breaks
in the buggy or scratches of any kind, and
as Harry came in Henry says to me, “There
is Harry, it was his girl had the rig out.”
I says, “No, I won't say anything,” and
with that Harry took the elevator; I heard
him talking to the elevator boy and he
went down stairs. In the meantime I left
and went out on my beat, and I went to
the corner of Hennepin and Thirteenth,
and I stood there probably two or three
minutes, and I was going down towards
Twelfth street and as I was passing the
door of the Ozark I looked in and saw the
two Mr. Goosmans and Mr. Hayward
standing in the hall and I saw they were
talking; and as I went in they were talk-
ing the matter over, supposing that some-
body was hurt by a runaway accident; and
Harry says, “No, it is nobody but Miss
Ging.” And he says, “She has not been
hurt in any runaway accident; she has been
done up for her money.” And I says,
“Harry, you can’t be sure.” And he says,
“I am; I am sure; I have reasons to know
it.” And I says “Why?” He says, “There
was something very funny, very peculiar
about her.” He says, “It was only a few
days ago we were in a certain place down
town and she had $2,000 in a roll; she had
it out on the table showing it around to
the waiters.” And he remarked that she
was very foolish to show her money around
like that, that she would lose it some time.
I says, “Oh, you can’t be sure it is her.”
He says, “I am.” He says, “Gentlemen, I
will tell you what I will do; I haven’t got
much money; have only got $35, and I will
bet either of you gentlemen $35 to 10 cents
that she is the person that has been done
up and has not been done up in any run-
away accident either.” Then I asked him
to come down to the morgue and see if
he could identify her. “No,” he didn’t
want to go to the morgue. I says, “If
you don't Want to go to the
morgue, Cºone down to the police
station, or the lock-up, and see the of.
ficers who brought her in and they might
give you some description of the woman.”
and Henry Goosman says, “Harry, let us
do that.” So Harry says, “All right, we
will go down.” So they started. Henry
Goosman had no overcoat on and I says,
“Henry, you had better get your overcoat
on; the night is chilly.” He said “No,”
and turning up his coat collar he walked
out. He says, “I don’t need any; I haven’t
got any here.” With that Henry went out
first and Harry followed him; and as Harry
was going out of the door he pulled a gun
out of his pocket and he looked back over
his shoulder, and he says, “Any son of a
—,” you know, “that comes to do me up
will get the contents of this.” So we walk-
ed along down to Twelfth street.
Q. What sort of a looking gun was that?
A. Well, sir, I could not tell you, because
he just took it out of his overcoat pocket
and put it back again; so I didn’t have a
chance to see what kind of a looking gun
it was, And we walked along down to
Twelfth street, and as we were walking
towards the corner there was a University
avenue car coming along and Henry Goos-
man got on first and Harry was hurrying
up to catch it, and I says to him, “Harry,
how soon will you be back?” He says,
“Will you be back when I come back?”
And I says, “I will, if I ain’t gone to
lunch.” He says, “I wish you would be
here when I come back because I want to
see you.” So when lunch time came I
went to lunch, and I did not see him until
lunch; and so I stopped there until they
went away, and Harry. Hayward and an-
other gentleman that lives in the flats
there—
Q. Do you know whether it was Fer-
rant? A. Yes, I think that is the name.
He was a large man with a smooth face.
And I went into the hall and Harry and
this gentleman, Mr. Ferrant, sat on the
stairs, and I went and leaned up against
the radiator in the hall, and Harry seemed
to be very nervous, and this other gentle-
man said to him, “Harry, hadn't you bet-
ter go to bed?” He said, “No, indeed; no
bed for me tonight.” He says, “I tell you
what I would like to do, I would like to
get out of town tomorrow.” And so the
other gentleman stepped out and said it
was too warm in here, they had better
walk out. So they walked out and then
down town. That was the last time I
saw Harry.
Q. Did you see anything more of him that
night or that morning? A: I didn't see
him any more that night or morning-l
went a little ahead of my story—he said,
after making this remark about the money,
and making this statement to me, he said,
“Who had I better give this case to, who
had I better see, Hoy?” I said, “It don't
make any difference, Hoy or any of the
rest of the men.” And he said, “I suppose
if the newspaper men had me they would
write me up.” I said, “Most undoubtedly
they would.” So that is about all the con-
versation he and I had.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Do you recollect whether it was a re-
volver or what kind of a pistol was it that
he took out of his pocket, or whether it was



134 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
a derringer? A. No, sir, I could not say
what it was. It was a gun.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Did you hear Harry say anything
more about the money that night? A. No,
sir, any more than $2,000 that she was
showing in the restaurant. That is all I
heard.
John McKenna.
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are a police officer of this city?
A. Yes, sir, I am jailer at the central po-
lice station.
Q. Were you there on the night of Dec.
3? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the first intelligence that
came to you in regard to the Ging homi-
cide? A. About 9:05 there came in a tele-
phone that a lady was hurt in a runaway
accident out to Lake Calhoun, and to send
out the wagon. They told us to send the
wagon out to 3001 Hennepin, and there
would be parties there to take it along to
where the accident happened.
Q. What was the next intelligence you
received? A. I should judge about 9:20 I
got a telephone from Goosman's barn, and
they wanted to know if there was any acci-
dent reported that night. I told them yes,
that the wagon had gone out to Lake Cal-
houn, or to Lake Harriet, I did not know
which, that a lady had got hurt in a runa-
way. And I should judge about a half
hour after that, or a little more probably,
I got another telephone from Goosman’s
barn asking me if the wagon had got back
yet and how was the lady. I told them that
the wagon had not got back yet. Then he
asked me if I would telephone to the barn
as soon as the wagon got back and let
them know what it was, and I said I
would; but when the wagon got back I
could not get Central, so I did not have
a chance to telephone to them.
Q. What time did you first see Harry
Hayward? A. Well, as near as I can
place it it was a quarter of 20 minutes to
12. I was all alone in the station and two
gentlemen came in. I did know either of
them.
Q. Do you recognize in the court room
here either of the gentlemen that came in
at that time? A. Yes, sir, Mr. Hayward
was one of them.
Q. He came in with another man. A.
Yes, sir.
You don’t know who he was 2 A. He
introduced himself to me, he said, “I am
Mr. Goosman's boy that has been telephon-
ing to you tonight from the barn.” I said
“Mr. Goosman, I would have let you know
when the wagon got back, but I could not
get hold of Central to tell you.”
Q. You may now describe the conversa-
tion that ensued. A. I was all alone, the
man that was taking care of the horses
was out in the barn, and Mr. Goosman
said to me, “Will you tell us the descrip-
tion of the woman who got killed?” I
says, “Hold on, and I will ask the driver,”
and I stepped out into the barn and I ask-
ed. Mr. Moore what kind of a dress the
lady had on and he said she had on a
black dress, seal skin sacque and a tur-
ban hat, and I came right back and told
them, and Harry said, “Didn't I tell you
it was her?” And Goosman says, “It might
not be her, there are lots of folks who
wear black dresses and seal skin sacques
and a turban hat.” Harry says, “Well,
it is a mistake, the dress is not black, it
is a dark blue, but it looks black at night.”
I says, “Mister, do you know that lady
that was killed?” He says, “Yes.” I says,
“What was she killed for, love, jealousy,
or what?” He says, “No, sir, she was kill-
ed for her money.” I says, “Was she fool-
ish enough to carry money enough around
with her to make it an object for people to
kill her?” He says, “No, it wasn’t for the
money she had with her, she didn't have it
with her.” And Goosman says, “It may
not be her yet, Harry, let us go down and
see,” and Mr. Hayward struck his hand on
the railing and said, “I know damn well it
is her.” And Goosman says, “Let us go
down and see?” And he says, “No, I
won't go down. I will go to the telegraph
office and telegraph her sister.” And I ad-
vised him not to go until he had found
out for sure that it was her. “No, he was
sure that it was her,” and Goosman says,
“The cars have stopped running now,” and
I looked at my watch and I said, “No, it
is not quite 12 yet, and you can catch the
last Bloomington car if you hurry down.”
And Mr. Hayward said, “No, that he would
not go down, that he would go and tele-
graph to her sister,” and so he went out
the door, and I sent a detective after him
and a newspaper man.
Q. Did you see anything more of Hay-
ward that night? A. No, sir, I didn't see
anything more of him until he was locked
up.
Q. What was Mr. Hayward's appearance
and manner? A. Well, he looked all rat-
tled, he was chewing gum, and he was all
rattled, and he kept a swinging his arms
like this, and he looked excited.
No cross-examination.
Mary Louise Ireland
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye:
Q. Were you related to Catherine Ging?
A. Yes, sir, I was her niece.
Q. Had you lived with Miss Ging since
you have been in the city 2 A. Well, no,
not all the time.
Q. How long prior to December 3 had
you lived with er? A. Since August, I
think.
Q. Were you with her most of the time
during that period? A. From August to
December, yes, sir.
Q: What time did she come to the
Ozark? A. I think it was on Monday pre-
ceding the 15th of November.
Q. She had regular living rooms there?
A. Sleeping rooms.
Q. Where did she take her meals? A.
She used to take her meals down town at
different places; she didn’t have any reg-
ular place to go.
Q. Well, did she take meals at all in
her room at the Ozark? A. Well, no, not
regular meals.
Q. You were acquainted with Harry
Hayward? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether he kept com-
pany more or less with Miss Ging. A. Yes,
sir, he did.
Q. Did you see him there at her rooms
in the Ozark? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, from the time that she went
there how often about would you see him?
A. Why, he used to be there pretty nearly
every night, every evening.










OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 185
you would be there yourself also? A.
A part of the time.
Q. Do you know of his keeping company
with her prior to the time Miss Ging moved
to the Ozark? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far back, how far prior to that
time? A. Well, I remember of him com-
ing there definitely from the latter part of
July; of course, I know of his coming
there before and knew of his being with
her, but I would not say back any further
than that.
Q. Had you see him at her place of
business, dressmaking parlors in the Syn-
dicate? A. Yes, sir. Very often.
Q. Calling your attention now to the
week preceding the 3d of December, did
you see him often that week? A. Yes, sir.
I remember of seeing him every day of
that week—in the evening, I call it the
same day—at the Ozark.
Q. You think he was there every evening
of that week? A. Yes, sir.
Q. During the day time did you see him?
A. Well, sometimes.
Q. Well, what time in the week, do you
remember? A. Well, I saw him Monday
morning—no, I saw him Wednesday, that is
the only time I remember of.
Q. Did you see him. Thanksgiving? A.
Yes, sir, but not at the Ozark—yes, at the
Ozark.
Q. At her rooms? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What part of the day was he there?
A. Well, I think he spent the greater part
of the day there. -
Q. That was Thanksgiving day, the 29th
day of November, wasn’t it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he there in the evening 2 A. Yes,
sir.
Q. How late was he there? A. Oh, I
guess about 10 or half past; might have
been a little later.
Q. Were he and your aunt alone together
any time that evening? A. Yes, sir. They
were in the Ozark alone in her room.
Q. You know whether your aunt was out
any evening that week? A. Yes, sir, she
was.
Q. What evening? A. She was out Mon-
day evening and Wednesday evening and
Saturday evening.
Q. Now, on Wednesday evening did you
see Harry before she went out? A. Well,
she did not come home at all Wednesday
evening, that is before she went out; she
didn't come home until she came to stay
for good.
Q. Where was she when you saw her
last? A. She was at the shop.
Q. What time did you leave her there?
A. Why, a few minutes past 6.
Q. And she didn't come home at all that
evening? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see Harry at any time after
you left her at the shop that evening? A.
Yes. He called up at the rooms. I guess
it was along about 7 o'clock, but I did not
take any particualr notice of the time.
Q. Now, on Saturday evening did you see
Harry? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you see him? A. Well,
I saw him, it was about 6 o'clock.
Q. Did Miss Ging go out that evening?
A. Yes, she didn't come home that evening,
though.
Q. That Saturday evening? A. Yes, sir.
The Court—When you say she didn't come
home you mean she did not come home
from the shop?
The Witness—She did not come home from
the shop.
º That was true Wednesday? A. Yes,
Sir".
Q. Then she did come home to the block
to sleep? A. Yes, she came home to sleep
every night. Wednesday night she came
home just 10 minutes of 9.
Q. Did you see Harry after that? A.
Well, I am not positive whether I did or
not; I think so, but I would not say for
sure Wednesday night. I think he was
there after she got home, but I would not
Swear to it.
Q. Now, on Saturday night you saw him
at your aunty's room about 7 o'clock, you
think? A. Saturday night?
Q. Yes. A. No, I did not see him at the
rooms Saturday night, not at 7 o'clock.
Q. Did you see him at any time prior to
7 o’clock that evening? A. Yes, I saw him
at 6 o'clock at the elevator, not in the
I'OOIn.
Q. And that evening your aunty didn't
come home from the shop? A. No.
Q. What time did she come home to the
Ozark that evening? A. Well, it was
around 9 o'clock.
Q. And after her return that evening at
9 o'clock, did you see Harry? A. Yes, he
came up after the soon after she came in
he came in.
Q. How long did he remain there? A.
He remained pretty late that night, until
after the elevator stopped running, that is
at 11 o’clock.
Q. Were you there yourself all the time?
A. Yes, sir, all the time.
Q. How about Sunday, was he at her
rooms Sunday? A. Yes, sir, he was there
Sunday morning a couple of hours, I guess
from about 11 o'clock to 1, I guess.
Q. Did your aunty remain in the rooms
all day Sunday? A. Yes, she did. -
Q. Did you see Harry in the afternoon º
A. No, I did not see him in the afternoon,
as in the evening, I guess I saw him Sun-
day afternoon on the fourth floor.
Q. Well, are you able to state positively
whether he was at the rooms Sunday even-
ing? A. No, sir, he was not there Sunday
evening.
Q. Did you see him with your aunty the
next day, on Monday? A. No.
Q. You assisted your aunty at the shop,
at the place of business? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see him that day? A. Well,
I saw him in the morning about a quarter
past 8. He was on the fourth floor and I
was on the fifth floor of the Ozark.
Q. Did you see him at the dressmaking
parlors? A. No, I did not see him.
Q. Was he there during the day? A.
Well, I heard him there, but I did not see
him.
Q. You know his voice? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time was it you heard him
there? A. Well, along about 11:30 in the
morning, I think. -
Q. Did you see him in the course of the
afternoon at all? A. No, sir.
Q. When did you last see your aunty that
afternoon? A. About 5:50 at the Syndicate
Block.
Q. Well, did you leave that block? A.
Yes, I left the block and left her there. I
went home to the Ozark Flats. That is the
last time I ever saw her alive.
Q. Did you see Harry that evening after
you returned to the Ozark? A. Yes, sir,
about 7:30.





136 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. Did you notice particularly of the
time, or is that your best judgment of the
time? A. Well, it was just about 7:30.
That was in my rooms at the Ozark Flats.
Q. Was any one else there besides your-
self? A. Not at the time he was there. He
asked me where my aunt was, and I told
him I did not know.
Q. Was there any further conversation?
A. Yes, he asked me again where she was
and I told him I did not know, and he
told me not to lie about it, and I told him
I was not lying.
time will she be home?” And I said, “Oh,
in a little while.” And he said, “That is
not much satisfaction; what time will she
be at home?” And I said, “In a little
while, I hope.” And he said, “You hope.”
And I said, “Yes, I do hope.” And we
talked a little while, and he said he guess-
ed he would go. He told me he was going
to call on a neighbor.
Q. Well, is there anything further you
can remember in that conversation? A.
No, that is all. Oh, we talked about little
things that are not worth mentioning.
Q. How long was he there? A. Oh, I
think five minutes would cover it, and per-
haps four.
Q. Well, you say it was a usual thing
for him to be there calling on her in her
room in the evening? A. Yes, usually. He
never called there day times, because we
were not there except Sundays.
Q. Did they appear to be very close
friends, and affectionate? A. Why, yes,
they were very friendly.
Q. Do you recollect any particular cir-
cumstance as to his manner, or what he
said on Saturday night, you say he was
there after she returned quite late with
her, after 11 wasn’t it? A. Yes. Why,
no, he came in and she came in, and we
all sat there together, and he went out
after some bolts, or something, for the ele-
vator, I don’t know what he went out
after, and he came back, and they sat
there together, and aunt got Harry—Well,
she kind of fondled him, and he said, “None
of that now, you have been out with an-
other fellow and you cannot pass me off
that way,” and she just laughed at him.
Q. Did that occur more than once that
evening? A. Yes, a couple of times.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. November and December were you
working for her? A. Oh, yes, sir.
Q. Did you frequently have company,
callers there at the Ozark—friends would
come in? A. Well, yes, quite frequently.
Q. You speak of Thanksgiving evening,
of Harry being up to your rooms; were
there any other persons there at the time
he was there, if you remember? A. Well,
yes, there were a couple of my friends
there. They were girl friends of mine that
had come in.
Q. Did Miss Ging, your aunt, frequently
have callers come in from the Flats in the
Ozark? A. Well, Mr. Hayward used to
call, but that was all; I don’t believe she
was very well acquainted with the other
families.
Q. She had other callers from the out-
side occasionally? A. Yes, but just oc-
casionally, though.
Q. You never saw anything in the least
“Well,” he said, “what
improper between Harry and Miss Ging
in the world? A. No, sir.
Q. Their addresses to each other were
perfectly gentlemanly and ladylike all the
time? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye–I certainly object to that.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Q. You say he came to your flat on Mon-
day evening, December 3, I think, about
half past 7 as near as you can locate it?
A. Yes, sir, just about half past 7.
Q. And that he remained there for about
five minutes? A. Well, five minutes
would cover it and it might have been a
little less.
Q. Do you know Miss Ireland, whether
Miss Ging kept there in her rooms any
wines or liquors to use when she was not
feeling well that she occasionally used for
medlicine? A. Yes, sir, she did.
Q. You ever know of Harry buying her
any and bringing them there? A. Yes,
sir, he has, so she said; of course I took
her word for it.
Q. But she used it very sparingly when
she used it at all, so far as you know? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Can you recall, Miss Ireland, any in-
stances when he bought those bottles and
carried them up there? A. Well, I know
it was lately, but I could not say any
time; I did not see him give it to her,
anything like that, but I knew they were
there and she told me he gave them to her.
Q. That was in the Ozark and not in the
dressmaking parlors? A. In the Ozark.
Q. When did you come to the Ozark,
on what day? A. Well, we both went
there, I think it was the Monday preced-
ing the 15th of November last.
Q. And where were you rooms preced-
ing that, where you lived? A. In the
Syndicate Block.
Q. Did you know of his sending her any-
thing of the kind there, any liquors, or
anything of that kind; do you know
whether she had them in her rooms at the
Syndicate—I mean her living rooms at the
Syndicate block? A. I didn't; anything
more than grape juice.
Q. Bottles of grape juice? A. Yes, sir,
it was in bottles, Duffy's malt.
Q. Well, Miss Ging had been ill, a short
time before that, hadn't she? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you ever trying to keep the fact
of Miss Ging's going out at any time from
Harry? A. No, sir.
Q. Miss Ging had never told you not to
iet Harry know that she was going out?
A. Yes, she has told me two or three
times.
Q. Now, Miss Ireland, you say she was
out Wednesday evening preceding her
death, in the evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember about Tuesday
evening preceding her death? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember whether she was
out that evening or not? A. No, she was
not out. Well, she was out of the room,
but she was not out with her coat and hat
Orl.
Q. Did you come home with her from the
Syndicate block that night? A. No, I
went a little ahead.
Q. And she came very soon after? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And was in the Ozark building for
the night from the time of her arrival? A.
Yes, sir.









OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
137
Q. But Wednesday night she didn't re-
turn until later in the evening? A. No,
ºr.
*3. Now, can you state about the time
she returned to the Ozark flats on Wednes-
day evening? A. Well, I think 10 minutes
f 9.
*... Where did you see her last before 10
minutes of 9, on Wednesday night, Nov.
232 A. I saw her in our rooms at the
Syndicate block at a few minutes past 6.
Q. And when you went away, did you
leave her there? A. Yes.
Q. About how many girls did she employ
in her dressmaking parlors? A. At that
time I think there were four there, count-
ing myself.
Q. How many rooms were there? A.
Two rooms.
Q. Miss Ireland, was Miss Ging absent
about the first of November, 1894, from her
dressmaking parlors for about a week or
so? A. Why, no, not that I remember.
Q. Do you remember of her being absent
at all for several days at a time? A. Yes,
I do. The first part of October. I think it
was eight days that she was away;
Q. who had charge of her business
while she was gone at that time? A. Well,
I did. -
Q: Did you tell her friends Nº."
was gone at that time? A. No,
didn't.
Q. Well, wasn't it frequently remarked
—were not frequent inquiries º as to
- he was? A. Yes, very often-
º you remember whether Harry
made any inquiries as to where she was?
Mr. Nye That is objected to:
The court—The objection is overruled.
A. Yes, sir, several times.
Q. But you did not give him any light
on the subject? A. No, I did not—I did
after he had asked me several times, but
not at first.
Q. You did finally tell him where she had
gone? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You simply felt as though you were
keeping the secrets of your aunt and did
not feel like giving them to him until the
proper time?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as incompe-
tent, irrelevant and immaterial.
The court—The objection is sustained.
Q: Didn't you feel, Miss Ireland, as
though Harry Hayward was a little too
inquisitive in making inquries in regard
to your aunt's business that were not pro-
per, and for that reason you did not care
to answer his questions?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You said, Miss Ireland, in reply to
one of Mr. Smith's questions, that you had
at one time declined to tell Harry where
your aunt was? A. Yes.
Q. Did your aunty make any explana-
tions to you at any time concerning what
Harry had said to her about not letting
him know where she was?
Mr. Smith–That is objected to.
The court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Smith–Exception.
Q. what were her statements to you in
regard to that?
Mr. Erwin–We object to that if they
were not in the presence of the defendant.
The Court–Well, as a matter of fact,
you have used this witness for your own
purposes, gone beyond legitimate examina-
tion, and you called out in cross-examina-
tion of this witness that she did not want
to have Harry know where she had gone
at certain times, and I think in as much
as she has stated that, it is proper she may
state any reasons she gave, why she did
not want to let him know, and for that
reason the objection will be overruled.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, our ques-
tion is simply intended to show an un-
usual interest on the part of Mr. Hay-
ward in Miss Ging, and that he had at-
tempted to find out from Miss Ging's lit-
tle friend matters which she very properly
kept from him, that is the idea. Our pur-
pose is not to cast any insinuation or any
possible innuendo against anybody; it is
simply to show the interest which he took
in her affairs and that they were warm
friends.
The Court—Well, as long as you have
called it out she may state.
Q. What explanation or statement did
she make to you? A. Well, I would not
say she did not care what Harry knew,
but she asked me, “If Harry asks you
where I am tell him you don’t know.” But
I did not take it to mean just like it
sounds. She had explained it that Harry
didn’t want me to know it, but not for me
to give her away that she had told me.
- Did you know anything about Miss
Ging's business relations with Harry,
money dealings or anything? A. Well,
no-
Mr. Smith—That is objected to as not
proper re-direct.
Mr. Nye-It is not, but I would like to be
permitted to ask that question.
The Court—Well, the court will permit
you to ask that question; it is purely dis-
cretionary with the court, and she will
answer it yes or no.
The Witness—Yes, I do.
Q. About what time was that? A. I guess
it was along about the first part of last
August. I sent some telegrams for her to
Mr. Hayward to Chicago. I guess three or
four; I don’t know the exact number.
Q. I will ask you if you knew of your
aunty having any considerable amount of
money—if you saw her have any consid—
erable amount of money very shortly be-
fore her death? A. No, sir.
Q. You remember any time after the 24th
of November of seeing in her possession
at any time of any money which you
would take to be any considerable amount
of money? A. No, I never did.
Q. Do you remember the occasion, the
Saturday night, the 30th of November, do
you remember whatever of her making
any change about her clothing when she
came in? A. Why, no, I don’t think she
did.
Q. Well, how about the preceding Mon-
day night? A. Monday night a week be-
fore the murder? I was not up when she
came home that night.
Q. How about Monday evening, the 3d,
before you left the Syndicate, did she make
any change of her clothing at that time?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. How did she generally carry her
money, such as she used in her business
or on the street? A. In her pocketbook.



































138 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
A black pocketbook with nickel trimmings.
Q. Do you know what became of the
pocketbook? A. Yes, sir, I have it.
Q. Where was it afterwards? A. On one
of the little shelves in her desk in the Syn-
dicate Block in her dressmaking parlors.
Q. And she left it there the Monday
evening before she went on her drive? A.
Undoubtedly.
Q. Any money in it? A. No, sir, there
was nothing in it but sonne pocket pieces.
Q. Change? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You ever hear any talk between Har-
ry and your aunt about any loan of mon-
ey? A. No, sir, I never heard them talk
about it. I knew of money transactions,
but I never heard them talk about it.
Did you know whatever the nature of
those transactions? A. No, I did not know
anything about them. I simply sent the
telegrams and whatever I inferred from
them is all I know.
Q. You did not know from your own
knowledge whether your aunt was letting
him have money while he was in Chicago
or not? A. No, only from the telegrams.
Q. Do you know where your aunty kept
her bank account? A. She kept one ac-
count at the First National Bank.
Do you know where any other ac-
count was kept? A. No, I never knew it,
but I knew she had a bank book; I never
done any business for her there.
Q: What bank? A. The Farmers and
Mechanics.
Q. Was there ever any money displayed
in your presence by her, did she keep
money around the room where it could be
seen? A. No, sir. She never carried any
money.
Q. Was she careful and close? A. Yes.
sir, she never kept any money around, she
always put the money in the bank and paid
off in checks. She never displayed her
money.
Q. Do you know whether or not there
was any money received on the afternoon
of Dec. 3 in her business transactions at
the shop? A. No, I don’t know anything
about that. -
Q. Do you know of any collections she
made there? A. No, sir.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You did not take charge of the mon-
ey department at all? A. Oh, I used to
make out bills and make collections—
Q. On that day you did not make a col-
lection in the dressmaking parlors, and you
don't know what she did do? A. No, sir.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m., Feb. 9, 1895.) -
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 9.
Emil Ferrant
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Where do you live? A. At the Ozark,
Minneapolis. I live in the second floor.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward,
defendant, here? A. I do.
Q. Did you see him on the night of the
3d of December, or morning of the 4th 2
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Do you remember whether you saw
ninn in the afternoon of the 3d 2 A. I don’t
think I did; I don’t remember of it.
Q. Or in the early evening? A. I don’t
remember having seen him.
Q: What time did you first see him on
the
want to go right straight
the night of the 3d 2 A. I cannot tell you
the time; it may have been between 11
and 12 o’clock.
Q. Where did you see him then? A: I
think the first that I saw him was com-
ing up the stairs; there were a lot of re-
porters—I don’t know whether they were
reporters—it seemed to me standing there,
ringing our door bell, and somebody in-
quired, “Does Miss Ging live here,” and
my wife answered over my shoulders, “I
think Miss Ging lives in the “Z” row,” or
some words to that effect; and then I says
“What has happend?” or my wife said—
I can’t remember. And Mr. Hayward was
just coming up stairs and said “Miss Ging
is killed, gone, or gone dead,” I cannot use
his exact words, but implied that some-
thing had happened to her, dead gone, or
dead—I can’t exactly remember the words.
I then went inside, and I had on a dressing
gown, and removed that and put on a coat
and went up stairs with the crowd that
was going up; there were probably four or
five or six—I could not exactly tell how
many there were in the crowd going up.
When I got up to the head of the stairs I
asked what had happened, and Henry
Goosman was standing there, and he said,
“Something has happened to Miss Ging,
and we got talking there and found out
that the buggy was filled almost with
blood,” or something like that, and then
Mr. Hayward came out—I don’t know how
long he stayed there, probably 50 minutes
or an hour, or something like that—I can't
tell. We stood there talking about the oc-
currence. Of course we did not know any-
thing about it until two gentlemen, Mr.
Hayward and somebody else, came out of
the door—but before this I went to say that
somebody I heard rap at the door that was
facing the stairs.
Q. Is that Miss Ging's flat? A. I found
out afterwards—I did not know Miss Ging
lived in the block at all.
Q. You did not know them? A. No, sir;
and this young lady, I heard her say, “Is
she really dead,” when they came out of
the door, the conversation that she had,
and as I found out afterwards with Mr.
Courtney and Morrissey, I think. Some-
body said then–I asked, “What does the
young lady know about it?” Somebody
asked, “Does she know anything about it?”
and some one said, “No, she does not; all
she knows is that she received a note this
morning.”
Objected to.
Mr. Nye–Hayward was present? A. Yes.
Mr. Nye—Whose conversation are you re-
lating? A. The general conversation in the
presence of Hayward.
Mr. Smith—But you cannot tell who said
this? A. I cannot. I am pretty sure, but
I cannot tell for sure.
Mr. Smith–Objection withdrawn.
The Witness—I think it was a Mr. Ben-
nett that said it—I found out afterwards
his name was Bennett. As I say, he said–
will you recall where I was 2.
Mr. Nye-You were speaking about the
note being torn up. A. And I turned
around and says to the detectives, “You
down to Miss
Ging's room and get those pieces. You
may find out something about this case.”
And Harry Hayward interrupted me and
says—did not interrupt me, but interrupted
the remark that I had made. He says, “l








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 139
don't think that that is necessary, as She
was too careful,” or she was “too cute,” or
some words like that. Then you want me
to go on with my story?
Q. Yes, go on. A. I went down stairs,
and met two detectives down stairs talking
with Mr. Hayward, who took us all into a
room there and showed some letters and
notes, but I did not allow myself, knowing
they were court people, to go near or see
how they looked like, but I remember Mr.
Hayward reading about Hot Springs in one
of these notes and letters, and he said,
This is a duplicate,”—I can remember that.
That is all I can remember in the conver-
sation, and he walked out of the room, and
as the detectives left us, I said to the de-
ſectives, “Now be sure and go down and
get those scraps of paper before that block
is swept, the Syndicate.” I talked a few
minutes with Mr. Hayward, and a police-
man there standing in the hall. I don't re-
member what our conversation was. I
think it was a story about—I said, I am
pretty sure I said, “I wish Miss Ging
would walk right in that door now,” and
Harry said, “You don't wish anything of
the kind, Ferrant; I bet your hair would
stand right on end.” I said, “Oh, no; she
would not be dead if she walked in that
door.” We had a conversation like that:
I was so warm and got so excited that I
said, “I am going to take a walk,” and
Harry said, “Mr. Ferrant, I cannot
sleep either; I shall walk.” We walked on
down the street, we walked as far as the
syndicate, walked right straight down Hen-
nepin avenue as far as the Syndicate block,
and turned toward the Syndicate; I wanted
to find out if these detectives had gone up
to get those scraps of paper. We walked
up a flight of stairs together; got at the
head of the stairs, and there was a dim
light in the hall, and Harry said, “There
don't seem to be any light there; I guess
there is nobody here,” and hollered, “Is
there anybody there,” something like that.
Turned around, came down again, and
walked down the street; and Harry said,
“Darn that woman, had every dollar I have
got,” and some other thing he said about
gambling. He said Miss Ging and another
lady, and another girl—I could not recall
the name if it was recalled to me—and a
gentleman, another gentleman had gone up
to the Syndicate to gamble, and he had left,
the two gentlemen left the ladies in the
alley, and they would come back again with
their winnings, and they would go to some
restaurant together. I said, “Harry, you
have enough now of gambling”—he kept
saying, “I am going to be implicated, and
this is going to point towards me.” I said
to him, “Harry, you have enough of gam-
bling; don’t you remember when we were
out fishing together last May I told you
to quit?” He says, “Well, I will quit,
Ferrant.” He says that “my money is
gone—I don’t know what to do.” I said,
“Harry, you have a rich father, and your
father will take care of you, You are all-
right so far as that is concerned.” So we
walked to the city hall. On our way back
up Hennepin, and when we got between
Seventh and Eighth streets somewhere,
Harry blurted out all at once: “I don’t
know, Ferrant; I have thought all along
lately that there was something the matter
with Miss Ging,” he says, “She has al-
ways been wanting to know about shoot-
ing and handling a revolver;” and said,
by-and-by, running his hands down into
his overcoat pocket: “There is the only
kind of pistol to carry.” I said: “What
makes you carry a thing like that? A man
like you don't have any excuse for carrying
a thing of that kind.” He said: “Emil”—or
“Ferrant”—I don’t think he called me by
my first name—“I have a great deal of
occasion to use this, because 1 have had
lots of money, and I have constantly been
afraid that something might happen to
me.” I won't say that he said, “I have a
great deal of occasion to use this,” but
he said, “I have a great deal of money in
my pockets, and I have occasion to use it,”
or something.” He told me, “This is a
Derringer, 41.” His saying “41’’—I had
never seen a 41-caliber pistol; never heard
of one—I kind of looked at it and turned
up the barrels and I saw the end of two
cartridges.
Q. Do you recall anything further that
he said in regard to a note which had
been torn up, anything about the signa-
ture? A. No, sir, I do not. When we got
to the block I says, “Harry, I am going
to bed now,” and I says, “Good night,
Hayward,” and he says, “Good night, Mr.
Ferrant,” but he says, “I can't sleep. I
am going to wake up Adry and talk to
him.” That is the last he said to me. And
that is the last time I ever saw him until
the trial that I remember of.
Q. Let me see if I cannot refresh your
memory and call your attention to the sig-
nature upon the note—and ask you if he
did not say something about a note being
signed.
Objected to as leading. Overruled. Ex-
ception.
Q. Anything with regard to the note
being signed “R.?” A. No, sir. He did
not say anything about the note. I did
not say that Mr. Hayward said anything
about the note. I said some gentleman, I
thought it was Mr. Bennett, said she had
received a note that morning at that land-
ling.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith. -
Q. You say Harry seemed to feel pretty
badly? A. Yes, sir, that is the reason I
suppose, that our conversation lagged, was
because he didn’t talk hardly anything go-
ing down town or coming up. There might
have been more conversation, but I can’t
remember.
Q. In this conversation in the hall or on
the street, or down in the street, did you
hear Harry use any such expressions as
“By God?” A. I did not. I don’t think
I ever heard him use any profane lan-
guage. Not to any extent; not that I
can recall. I always thought him very
much of a gentleman as far as that goes.
George Goosman
Sworn. -
Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. You are the proprietor of this livery
barn, are you not? A. Yes, sir.
. You know the rig that Miss Ging got
on the night of the 3d of December? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Where is that buggy? A. The buggy
is right here (indicating buggy in court
room).
Q. You took that rig from the barn your-
self? A. Yes, I did; about 6 or a few





140
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
minutes after. I took it to the Ozark flats
and Harry took it about 6:30; took it to
the West Hotel.
Q. Were you in the barn when it re-
turned? A. No, sir.
Q. Then you don't know of your own
knowledge what time it came back? A.
º sir. I do not, only by the livery regis-
er.
Q. Do you know whether Miss Ging had
had the rig before? A. All I know is
what I know by the book, the livery regis-
ter; I never seen her there. I have seen
her, of course, with Mr. Hayward, but
never seen her during this time—always
happened to be away when she came.
Q. What time did you learn about the
murder or killing? A. Eleven fifteen,
When I got to the block, about 11:15.
Q. Whom did you see there then? A. I
Seen Harry Hayward, and Henry, my son,
and Officer Britt in the hall when I got
there. I noticed Mr. Hayward was very
excited, very pale, acted very nervous. I
did not know What the trouble was. I heard
him say, “I have been expecting they
would do her up.”
Q. Did you hear anything further? A. I
heard him say then, “My $2,000 are gone to
hell.”
Q. Do you recall anything further? A.
He went and pulled some letters out of his
pocket to show us something. I don’t
know what he meant, but Henry objected
to him. He said he did not want to see
his letters. I took the elevator and went
to my apartment. They started off. That
is all I know about it.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Were you not excited? A. No, sir;
not at all. I did not know what the trouble
was when I first came in the hall.
Q. You knew about the carriage coming
home in that condition? A. I knew noth-
ing about it.
Q. Did your son say, “I would not show
those letters?” A. Yes.
Q. Just in a friendly way? A.
Sir.
Q. Hadn't you conversed with your son
at all? A. No, sir; just seen him with
Hayward, the first I seen him since supper
time, since he took the buggy from me
and took it to the hotel.
Q. Your son knew at that time that the
carriage had come back bespattered with
blood, and that a dead body had been car-
ried to the morgue—didn’t he mention that
to you at all? A. I don’t remember him
—I says “What is the trouble, boys?”—I
saw Mr. Hayward was so excited, and my
son went on and told me that Miss Ging
had got either hurt in a runaway, got
hurt or something— he didn’t know what it
was; he said he had been telephoning.
Q. You say this is the carriage that
Miss Ging had on that evening 2 A. Yes,
that is the buggy that my son took from
me the night of the murder.
Q. where has that carriage been since
that night? A. Nobody has ever rode in
it since. It has been at the Dime Museum.
Q. Rented out there by you? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. The robe down there? A: No, sir, I
have not seen the robe since the day I put
it in the buggy.
Q. You don't know whether the robe has
Yes,
been with the carriage at the Dime Mu-
seum or not. A. It has not. I wanted to
get the robe and they would not let me
have it at headquarters. I have been with-
out that robe all Winter.
Q: What did you send down to the Dime
Museum? A. That and the mare, the
buckskin mare. She has been there a week
and the buggy has been there two weeks.
They hired them and wanted them.
Q. Where was the carriage kept before
it was sent to the Dime Museum. A. At
my stable.
Q. Had it been used? A. No, sir, not
for anybody to ride in. There has not
anybody rode in it to my knowledge.
Q. Did Mayor Eustis ride out in it? A.
Yes, sir; at that time Eustis called for it
and I let him have it. Ege called for it
at one time. He did not ride out at the
time; got down to the court house—I hap-
pened to get another buggy.
Q. You are sure that Harry said “There
is $2,000 gone to hell?” A. That is just
the way he spoke it.
Q. You own the carriage now, do you?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye. Is this the robe? A. Yes, sir;
that is my robe.
The robe was marked “Exhibit O.”
Q. Did you examine the buggy as to its
condition when it returned to the barn ?
A. The next morning I did; when I got
to the stable.
Q. I wish you would examine that buggy
now, and tell us whether there are any
marks there of what were the blood spots
at the time that you examined it that
morning.
Mr. Erwin. Objected to as immaterial,
irrelevant and improper, and the buggy
being proved not to be in the same condi-
tion that it was that morning; and the in-
tention of the question, being to work at
comparison of things which the jury can
make themselves.
The Court. I think not. I think the
question goes to pointing out any marks
on the buggy that were blood marks.
Mr. Erwin. The last clause of the ques-
tion confined it to blood marks which
were on that morning when he examined
it.
Mr.
Mr.
Nye. As to the location of the body.
Erwin. That is another question.
Mr. Nye. I will put it that way.
Mr. Erwin. Same objection.
The Court. I think you better wait until
the crowd goes out if you are going to do
that.
Mr. Nye. Very well.
Mr. Smith. Has the buggy been washed
since that night? A. I had it washed on
the second day, yes, sir. I had the cushion
and the buggy washed. I had it washed
out so it wolud not seip.
Q. And the box? A. Yes, sir; it was
washed all out.
That is the robe that Miss Ging had
on the night of Dec. 3? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know who washed the buggy?
A. Yes; I cannot remember his name.
Albert somebody; he is working there yet.
Q. If you have that name let us have it?
A. Yes, sir, I will.
Mr. Nye. That is all now; if you will re-
main until the noon hour.
Mr. Erwin. I shall renew the objection if
this buggy has been washed.




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 141
The Court. The question so far as to
what these spots were and the size of
them, if he can point out, would be com-
petent.
Mr. Erwin. No objection to that.
Mr. Smith. Let me ask another question
or two on cross-examination. When did
you examine that blood on that buggy or
on the cushion seat, or anywhere around
the buggy first after the homicide? A.
The following morning. -
Q. It had been examined by others and
you had been told about it before that?
A. I had been told in the hall that even-
ing by my son.
Emil Ferrant
recalled.
Mr. Nye. The revolver can be marked for
identification. (The revolver was here
marked exhibit P.)
Q. Was it such a weapon as that? (show-
ing witness.)
A. It looks a good deal like it, but when
he showed it to me it was thrown open. I
don't know how to get it open.
Mr. Erwin. Let Mr. Hayward throw it,
if you want it throwed.
(Harry Hayward here throwed the re-
volver back.)
Mr. Nye. Is that the way it was thrown?
A. I think that is the way it was thrown;
that is about the way I looked at it, about
like that. I don’t know whether that is the
revolver, but it looked something like that.
Mr. Nye. That is all.
Mr. Nye at this point asked the deputy
sheriff if he could bring Adry Hayward
over to the court.
Mr. Erwin. In the case of Adry Hay-
ward, I would frankly state to the court
that we desire to have experts here at
the time that he gives his testimony. There
will be no opportunity to cross-examine
Adry Hayward today unless we sit here
all day.
The Court. This case must go on. We
are not going to stop.
Mr. Erwin. It would be much more con-
venient for the defendant and the experts,
if he could have him put on the stand Mon-
day morning. I know, your honor, if the
experts are here it will save time.
The Court. Did you understand that he
would be here?
Mr. Erwin. We understood possibly he
might be called. I will state frankly that
the experts are not here, but will be here
Monday morning.
The Court. If they are here now you
would save time.
Mr. Erwin. We would not complete even
the direct examination.
The Court. You have the report of the
testimony in the case, and whatever, testi-
mony is taken this forenoon you could
hand over to the experts, and they would
know just as much about it after they read
it as if they were here and heard it.
Mr. Erwin. It is his manner on the
stand; it is not the testimony itself. The
testimony would have to be read to them
and a description made of the manner.
Mr. Nye. I can go into another feature
of this case now.
William H. Eustis
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. You were mayor of the city during
the two years last past up to Jan, 12 A. I
Was.
Q. And concerned yourself very much in
regard to the investigation of this murder
of Miss Ging? A. I did.
Do you know Harry Hayward by
sight? A. Well, I do; I have since that
time; I did not before.
Q. When did you see him after the mur-
der? A. On Tuesday, about 11 o'clock, at
the chief's office.
Q. How much did you see him from that
time until the time of his final arrest on
this charge? A. I saw him from 11 o'clock,
about that time, on Tuesday; was with
him most of the time until after 2 o’clock
the next morning. Then I saw him again.
That is, from 11 o'clock Tuesday morning,
until about 2 o’clock or 2:30 on Wednesday
morning. Then I saw him a little while
again on Wednesday morning in the fore-
noon, and the next time I saw him was on
Thursday morning, about 10 o'clock, and I
was with him from that time until about
4 o'clock, 3 or 4 o’clock, Thursday after-
In OOn.
Q. I will ask you if during these visits
and interviews with him he made any ex-
planation to you concerning his business
relations with Miss Ging? A. He did.
Q. I will ask you if at any time during
these interviews you obtained from him
any papers concerning his business rela-
tions with Miss Ging? A. I did. The first
papers I received from him were a memo-
randum signed by Miss Ging in reference
to some gambling transaction and some
copies of telegrams.
Papers were here marked exhibit Q-1,
Q-2, Q-3 and Q-4.
Mr. Erwin. I would like to cross-examine
this witness as to the circumstances under
which these various statements were ob-
tained, to see whether they were obtained
by duress or promises, or whether he was
under arrest, or what the circumstances
were.
The Court. Go on.
Mr. Erwin. On the 3d day of last De-
cember you were mayor of the city? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Among your powers, as mayor, have
you the power of arrest? A. I don’t know;
I never looked it up to see. I think per-
haps I have.
Q. As mayor of the city, was it your
habit to visit the city hall where men
were arrested and held in duress—what
you call the lockup? A. I went over there
frequently.
Q. What is the name you call it?
Mr. Hall. The Central station.
Mr. Erwin. It was your habit to visit.
the Central station 2 A. I have been over-
there very frequently.
- Where was it you first saw Mr. Hay-
ward 2 A. As near as I can recollect it
was in the office of the chief of police.
It was in the forenoon of Tuesday, as
near as I can recollect, between 10 and 11.
o'clock, perhaps nearer 11 than 10, I don’t
recollect, but it was in the forenoon some
time.
Mr. Hall. We object to this line of in-
quiry as irrelevant and immaterial; the
only object is to discover whether or no
he surrendered all the papers (which we
are proceeding to offer here), voluntarily
or not, and I apprehend the line of inquiry
is entirely immaterial at this time.
Mr. Erwin. That is one of the rea-
Sons.







OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Mr. Hall. That is the reason announced
by counsel, that it is entirely immaterial,
only so far as affecting the question
whether or not he voluntarily surrendered
these papers; the question of voluntariness
goes to the question of admissions and
statements, but does not go to any tangi-
ble evidence received.
The Court. The objection is overruled.
Mr. Nye. Then, before the examination
proceeds I would like to have the court
examine them, and I will offer them now
before the cross-examination.
The Court. Well, let counsel for the de-
fendant see them, see if they have any
objection.
(Mr. Nye here handed Mr. Erwin the
papers referred to.)
Mr. Nye. I will now offer these papers
in evidence at this time.
The Court. Is there any objection?
Mr. Erwin. I ask to cross-examine the
witness to see whether the objections shall
be made.
The Court. Well, confine yourself to these
papers.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
NESS.
Mr. Erwin. I understand it is the inten-
tion of the state's attorney to follow this
up with other conversations and papers
secured at a time subsequent.
The Court. Well, the court will decide
but one thing at a time. Confine your ex-
amination to these papers now.
Q. You say you saw him about 11 o'clock
on Tuesday in the chief's office? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Who was present in the chief's of
fice when you saw him? A. The chief of
police, Mr. Hall, and some of the detec-
tives; I don’t know who.
Q. The assistant county attorney, Mr.
Hall? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Mr. Hoy, you say, was there? A.
No, sir; I said the chief and Mr. Hall and
the others I do not remember.
Q. Well, how many detectives were
there? A. Oh, I think perhaps there were
three of four.
Q. More ‘han two? A. I should say so.
Q. How came you to be there? A. I was
going up to the city hall at my regular
time, as I understand it.
Q. How came you to be in the chief's
office? A. I passed by the door as I went
to my office and I most generally drop in
to the chief's office on my way down, and
I went in to see what was new in the
Ging murder.
Q. Then had your police, or your police
and yourself, started in upon the investi-
gation of the Ging murder at that time?
A. Oh, yes, sir.
Had you any consultations with the
chief of police in regard to the appre-
hension of the person suspected? A.
had conversed with him early in the morn-
ing, yes, sir.
Q. Is there a practice of detention and
examination of persons suspected; Was
there, under your administration, prior to
this time? A. Oh, yes sir; we do every-
thing we can to catch the person who we
thought had done wrong.
Q. At that time you went into the office
of the chief of police was Mr. Hayward
under suspicion by yourself or your au-
thority? A. Not any very great sus-
OF THE WIT-
I did
not know at that time fully what he had
told the officers.
picion, as far as I was concerned.
Q. Well, he was under suspicion, was
heº I don’t care anything about the ex-
tent of it.
The Court. Well, he cannot state about
anyone having any suspicion but himself.
Q. Well, I mean for yourself? A. Not
as far as I was concerned; he was not
under suspicion at that time.
Q. Did you have any conversation with
Mr. Hayward there? A. I did; yes, sir.
Q. How did it come up? A. Why, Mr.
Hall was talking with Mr. Hayward when
I came in.
Q. What was he talking about? A.
Talking about this murder, Talking about
Miss Ging. Trying to find out Mr. Hay-
ward's relations to the girl—trying to find
out what he knew in reference to her
movements previous to the murder.
Q. Well, how came you in it? A. Well,
I took up the matter when Mr. Hall got
through talking with him, he turned him
over to me and I stayed with him. I
wanted to find out all about the young
lady; she was a stranger to me. I was
with him, I think, nearly all the time from
that until about 2 o’clock the next morn-
ing.
Q. Fifteen hours? A. I have not figured
the number of hours.
Mr. Nye. It is a matter of computation?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, did you have him there all the
time at the chief's office? A. No, sir; he
was at the mayor’s office part of the time.
Q. Well, when did you take him from
the chief's office? A. I don’t know just
What time. He went out to lunch and
came back again.
Q. With whom? A. I think with one of
the officers. I think Mr. Doyle.
Q. Well, where did you take him from
the chief's office in the city hall? A. On
Tuesday?
Q. Yes, sir. A. The only place I took
him, out of the city hall on Tuesday, was
when I took him in a carriage and drove
him down to the county morgue.
The Court. Well, let us get right down
to this matter.
Mr. Erwin. Well, your honor, I am ask-
ing the questions as fast as I can.
When did you get these particular pa-
pers that were handed to you? A. I got
those on Thursday.
Q. Yes, it was not until Thursday. Now,
then, where did you take him from the
chief's office, did you take him into any
other office? A. On which day?
Q. On that day? A. On Thursday.
Q. On the day you arrested him, on
Tuesday? A. We did not arrest him.
Q. Well, on the day you saw him in the
chief's office, where did you take him from
the chief's office? A. I think he went into
the mayor’s office.
Q. How long did you keep him there?
Mr. Nye. This is objected to as imma-
terial at this time.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
The testimony now should be confined to
these papers offered in evidence. It may
be proper for you to inquire hereafter in
regard to that matter, but at the present
time you should confine yourself to these
papers.
Mr. Erwin. Exception. And I offer, if









OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
143
the court please, to show that this man
was under constant detention up to the
time these papers were obtained and the
circumstances of it.
The Court. Well, Mr. Erwin, you can
commence with the papers, the time they
were obtained in the first place, and then if
the court thinks it proper and necessary
for you to go back and show all that trans-
pired up to that time, of course it will
permit you to do so; but of course we are
not going over three days’ work there to
get down to the question of how these par
pers were obtained.
Q. Well, I will ask you generally whether
you were constantly talking, you and your
officers, and interrogating and detaining
Harry from that time until the papers
were delivered to you? A. No, sir.
Q. Well, were you at intervals talking
to him until the papers were delivered to
you? A. As I said, he was with us all the
time, or nearly all the time, from Tuesday
forenoon until 2 o’clock Wednesday morn-
ing. At that time he was left in the police
headquarters until later that morning, and
when I came down he went away to his
business. Then on Thursday morning I
saw him again, about 10 o'clock, when I
came to my office.
Q. Now, when he went away on his busi-
ness, as you say, did you have him shad-
owed 2 A. I think the officers knew where
he was.
Q. Did you have him shadowed 2
Mr. Nye. That is objected to as imma-
terial.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin, I want to show, if the court
please, that what this witness calls a re-
lease was simply letting him go for the
purpose of discovering, shadowing him,
that it was no release at all, but a bait to
the man.
Mr. Nye. Objected to as immaterial at
this time and under the ruling of the court.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin. An exception noted. Now, I
understand this ruling, but for the purpose
of making a record I ask to be allowed
to interrogate this witness as to everything
that was done, said, promised or threat-
ened, in relation to Harry Hayward's con-
nection with this Ging murder and of his
detention, for the purpose of seeing
whether these papers were taken from his
person in violation of the law of seizure.
The Court . As already stated, the court
will permit the counsel to commence with
the delivery of these papers, and after the
testimony is given in reference to that if
it is necessary and proper for the counsel
to go into prior transactions, in detaining
him, the court will permit it, but not with-
out.
Mr. Erwin. Your honor will please note
an exception. -
The Court. An exception will be noted.
Q. Did Mr. Hayward answer all ques-
tions asked him freely and voluntarily? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You did not have to pump him a bit,
did you; he answered everything you asked
him, and you did not have to press him?
Mr. Nye. When?
Mr. Erwin. During the whole of the in-
vestigation of Mr. Hayward's conduct?
Mr. Nye. Well, that is objected to as ir-
relevant, incompetent and immateriaſ.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
Does the counsel understand what the
court said 2
Mr. Erwin. Yes, your honor.
Q. Now, what day were those four par
pers which have been offered here in evi-
dence, what day were they obtained, when
did you first see them or any of them? A.
Thursday, about 12 o'clock.
Q. Under what circumstances did you see
them—when did you first hear about them?
A. I heard about them. Thursday morning.
I was sitting in my office Thursday morn-
ing, between 10 and 11 o'clock, and I turned
around in my chair and looked, and Harry
Hayward stood in the door. I says, “Come
in, Harry,” and he came in. And he said
he had come to ask me to go to a certain
place, and I says, “Come in and sit down.”
And he came in and sat down and we com-
menced talking, and we visted about an
hour, I guess an hour and a half, and he
talked over a great many things that he
had talked about the previous day, and
some things we hadn’t talked over. And
he told me for the first time about Miss
Ging's gambling, and he told me how she
had an infatuation for gambling, and how
he advised her not to gamble, and he said
he had a memorandum signed by her in
reference to gambling, and he said he did
not know whether he destroyed it. I said,
“Harry, that is a very valuable paper and
I should not think you would have de-
stroyed it.” He says, “Well, I think I
have that in my trunk.” He told me
about going to Chicago, and about tele-
grams passing back and forth between
them, and I says, “Have you got them?”
And he said, “He thought he had; he
thought they were up in his trunk.” And
we talked and discussed the matter over
for a little while, and finally I suggested
to him, about half past 11 o'clock, I think
it was, that we should go up and get those,
and I would like very much to see them,
and that he was very much interested in
finding out what he could about this mat-
ter, and that I would like to see those
telegrams and papers. So I ordered a
carriage, and I suggested that somebody
else go along besides he and I, and he said
he would rather go alone, but we discussed
the matter a little, and finally he consented
to have Mr. Doyle go with us. And we
ordered a carriage finally, and Mr. Doyle
and Mr. Hayward and myself got into the
carriage and drove up to the Ozark flats.
We went up to his room and he opened
his trunk and valise and took out some
papers and passed them over to me and
told me I should read them; I told him. I
had no interest in reading his papers and
finally he handed me all of these papers.
Q. He was the first man who told you
about the papers? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this was not a discovery at all;
it was a matter which he voluntarily
brought to your attention? A. He told me
about them that morning, and that was
the first I ever knew that the young wom-
an gambled at all. He told me about her
gambling.
Mr. Erwin. Then, so far as these papers
are concerned, I have no objection to them.
(The papers were here received in evi-
dence.) -
Examination by Mr. Nye.
Q. Now, I ask you to read the first
memorandum and state whether there was





144
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
any further explanation made in regard to
it—
Mr. Erwin. Just read it to yourself first.
Mr. Nye. I have offered it in evidence
and I understand there is no objection.
Mr. Erwin. If your honor please, I don’t
understand exactly what they intend to
bring out here.
The Court. I cannot see but one object
in this, and that is to show the relations
existing between the deceased and the de-
fendant.
Mr. Erwin. Then, why is it put in cate-
gorically here by reading papers? Why
can’t he state what was said and let the
jury read the papers?
Mr. Nye. There is one memorandum
here, the second memorandum, that needs
some explanation.
Q. State what he said in reference to
these papers which you hold in your hand.
A. He first handed me, I won’t be positive
about the order, but I think he first hand-
ed to me this one. (Indicating.)
Mr. Erwin. I would like to know whether
the intention is to prove something con-
fessatory?
Mr. Nye. No, sir; nothing more than
putting these papers in and showing the
business relations between the defendant
and the deceased
Mr. Erwin. I shall have no objection to
that and shall accept it with the reserva-
tion that if it shows anything of that kind
I shall have the right to move to strike it
out after further examination.
The Court. The testimony will be con-
fined to his examination of those papers.
Mr. Erwin. I want to reserve the right
to strike out and cross-examine this wit-
ness on this paper, if it should be intended
for anything of that character, something
confessatory.
The Court. Very well; you shall have
the right to do so.
Q. Now, state the order in which he
gave them to you and what, if anything,
he said concerning them? A. The first
paper he handed me, as I recollect now, is
the paper marked, or dated, rather, May
9, 1894.
Q. That is marked exhibit Q-12 A. Yes,
sir. That is to show—
Mr. Erwin. I object to this way of ex-
amination.
Q. Well, very well; go on in reference
to the next one? A. He said this was a
paper that Miss Ging had given to him and
she had signed it, and it was the first
money transaction between the two in
reference to gambling, and he said it was a
receipt for the money which she had loaned
to him to put into gambling operations. I
think he said the receipt, with the exception
of the signature, was in his handwriting.
The next one he said was a memorandum
of the telegrams which he had sent her. He
showed me two telegrams he had received
from her when he was in Chicago, both of
them dated June 12, and he said: “This
sheet contains the memorandum giving the
substance of my answers to her telegrams,
and the first telegram I sent her.” And
then he read them and explained them.
Q. Now, the telegrams which he received
are those, exhibits 3 and 4? A. No, sir.
Exhibit Q-2 is a memorandum of a tele-
gram which he sent to her from Chicago,
copied by himself in Chicago at the time he
sent them; they are copies. Exhibits Q-3
and 4 are the original telegrams received
by him from her in answer to his telegrams
to her.
Q. Any further explanation made in re-
gard to them? A. Yes. He called my at-
tention to the first memorandum at the
top of exhibit Q-2, as the copy of the first
telegram which he sent to her, that is,
the substance of it. He did not pretend
that these were accurate copies, but only
the substance, which read, “We are $300
Winners.”
And the next he read to me was, “We
are $800 winners.”
And the next telegram, “We have made
loss, telegraph me at Palmer House, 115;
this, together with what I put in, may pull
us out. If you fail in this we may have
loss. Send at once. H.”
Then he said the telegram which he got
from her in answer to the one marked ex-
hibit Q-4 reads as follows:
“Minneapolis, Minn., June 12, '94.—Mr. H.
T. Hawyard, Palmer House: Can't send.
Hope you have not lost everything.
“KATE.”
He said his answer to that was this:
“Nothing is certain, our chances are good,
Very good; if you fail in this we will have
loss. Spell my name correctly.”
His explanation of that was in order to
get the money upon the money order it
Was necessary that his name be spelt cor-
rectly. The telegram which he received in
answer to that his name had been spelled
Hawyard. And he showed me that his
rame was not spelled correctly in the tele-
gram that he received from her. And then
he said very shortly after that, he got
this telegram from her, exhibit No. 3, which
is as follows:
“Mr. H. T. Hawyard, Palmer House—If
you are sure of winning I will send it.
“PCATE.”
Then he said his answer to that Was,
“Our chances are now better, send it im-
mediately and I think we will be all right.”
“We are out of luck! Have lost com-
pletely.” He said that was another tele-
gram that he sent after that, “We are out
of luck, have lost completely.”
The Court. You did not read exhibit No.
1. Exhibit No. 1 reads:
“May 9, 1894. This is to show that I have
put $375 in Harry T. Hayward’s hands to
gamble with, win or lose. KATE GING.”
Mr. Nye. As I understand it, these are
received without objection.
Mr. Erwin. The county attorney states
that these are received without objection.
I will make the formal objection that if it
appears hereafter that this is connected
with evidence which is confessatory, I will
object to it as immaterial and irrelevant,
and reserve the right to cross-examine the
witness and move to strike out in case
anything confessatory is claimed by reason
of the declarations or the papers. And the
court will please note my objection and ex-
ception.
The Court. Very well; it is noted.
Q. Now, I will ask, Mr. Eustis, have
you received any other papers from him
during that time or about that time, prior
to his final arrest? A. Yes, sir. Immedi-
ately after that we left the Ozark and
went down to the Minnesota. Loan and
Trust Company. I asked him where the
notes were and he said the notes were in
his brother’s box in the Minnesota Loan




























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
145
and Trust, and I says, “We will go down
and see the papers.” I told him, I want
to see those papers, Harry,” and we jump-
ed into a carriage and started and he
said they were in his brother's box and
he did not have the key. I asked him
where his brother was and he was at the
Ozark. I says, “Let’s go down and get
your brother and the papers, now is the
time to do it and we will do it while we are
about it.” We went down to the Ozark
and found his brother in his room. He
came to the door and we told him what we
wanted and he said he would come down
after dinner. I said, “No Adry, now is
the time, we have a carriage here and we
will drive you right down if you will go
and open the box for us.” And he said
*all right,” and we four drove directly
from the Ozark to the Minnesota Loan &
Trust. Where we found the man that had
the keys, and Adry having his key, and
the keeper taking his key, we went into
the box, opened it and took the papers out.
We went in the back room and sat down
at a table and studied a little while the
charter of the notes.
Q. Now, one note has already gone in
evidence, exhibit “G,” is that one of the
notes you refer to? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin. Now, if it may please the
court, I desire to examine the witness at
this time to see whether this was a seizure
of these papers.
The Court. Well, you can ascertain.
Q. Now, I will show you these three ex-
hibits, R S and T, and ask you if those are
also notes?
Mr. Erwin. Now, if the court please, I
ask the right to examine the witness.
The Court. Yes, sir, you may do so in
reference to getting these notes.
(Examination by Mr. Erwin.)
Q. Now, as I understand it, the papers
which you received down at the safety
deposit were the insurance policies which
have not been introduced in evidence and
some notes? A. No, sir.
Q. Just the notes that are in question?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you tell Hayward that you want-
ed to see them or wanted to have posses-
sion of them? A. Wanted to see them.
Q. What did he say to you about parting
with the possession of them? A. He said
he did not want I should take possession
of them.
Q. Now, before the box in the safety
deposit was opened did not Mr. Hayward,
in your presence, notify the keeper of the
vault that those papers must be left in the
vault; must be preserved and must not be
delivered to you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you agreed to that. A. No, sir.
Q. Well, you stood silent and made no
remark? A. I said, “Let’s see them first.”
They gave me notice that I was not to take
them, but I gave them no intimation
whether I would or would not take them.
Q. Now, you went in and opened the box
and the papers were taken out, were they
not? A. They opened the vault.
Q. Well, the vault was opened. And
after you took them you refuced to give
them up again? A. No, we took them and
sat down at a table and looked them over
and I think that Harry Hayward said
again, “I don’t want you to take these
papers.” And I said, “Harry, I am going
to take these papers.” He said, “You
can’t have them.” And I said, “I am go-
ing to take these papers, and as mayor of
the city of Minneapolis I am entitled to
them, and if I do not need them. I will re-
turn to you the originals, and if I do need
them. I will return to you copies of them.”
And he said, “I don’t think you have any
right or any power to do so.” I said,
“That is all right.” And I wrote out a
receipt briefly describing these notes, and
I said, “I will protect you and your prop-
erty rights fully.” And I said, “These are
papers executed by Miss Ging shortly be-
fore her death, and might assist us in se-
curing a clue to the crime, and it is neces-
sary that we should have them.” And
I said: “Harry, set down, now, and put
your name on these notes so that you can
hereafter identify them.” And he sat down
and put on the back of these notes the ini-
tial “H.” And I think he asked the gentle-
men who were standing near by, Mr. Lane,
I think his name was, and he said: “Will
you put your name on these notes?” And
he did so. He put “L.” on the notes.
Harry read off a description of the notes
as I was writing the regeipt for him, and
after it was all finished I said to him:
“Sign the receipt now, and I will place it
in the box,” and I took the papers and left
the building.
Q. Did you have any search warrant to
take them, anything of that kind? A. No,
Slr.
Q. It was arbitrary on your part?
The Court. Well, he has said so.
Mr. Erwin. If your honor please, I will
withdraw the objection that they were
seized. I make no point on that.
Mr. Nye. Then I will offer the three ex-
hibits in evidence—the other one is in evi-
dence. I will offer exhibits R, S and T in
evidence at this time.
Now, were those the only papers you
got there at the vault? A. I believe so;
yes, sir.
Q. Where did you then go? A. We then
came out and Mr. Doyle and Harry walked
through the alley to the Oneida Block, and
I took a carriage and drove around to the
Oneida, Block, and met them at the en-
trance of the block.
Q. Did you there obtain any papers from
Harry? A. We did. We went up to
Harry's office and obtained some insurance
paperS.
Q. What were they, policies? A. Yes,
sir, two insurance policies, one in the New
York Life and one in the Travelers, I be-
lieve. -
Mr. Erwin. Did he obtain all of these
papers, or just the policies?
Q. I show you exhibit U, and ask you if
that is one of the papers you received?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And also exhibits V1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6; I
ask you if these were among the papers?
A. There were some others, were there
not.
Q. Well, I ask you if these were among
the papers received at that time? A. Yes,
Slr.
Q. Are they all the papers received at
the Oneida Block at that time from Harry?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, see if there are any papers
which you referred to here? A. No, I was
mistaken. I was thinking these were the




146
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Travelers—that is all the New York Life.
Then the papers pertaining to all
that are here? A. So far as I know, yes.
Q. Here is a parcel also, which will be
marked exhibits W1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7.
The Court– What is the nature of those?
The Witness—It is the accident insurance
policy. -
Q. Now, I show you this parcel, exhibits
“W1-2-3-4-5–6 and 7,” and ask you if those
are papers that you received from Harry
at that time? A. Yes, sir,
Did you receive any other papers than
those that I have shown you? A. Not that
I now recall.
Q. (Witness shown exhibit “X”). Was
that among the papers you got at that
time?
The Court—What is that?
Mr. Nye-That is a policy on his own
life in favor of his mother. As I under-
stand, it doesn’t have anything to do with
this matter.
Q. You recognize that, mayor? (showing
witness paper.) A. No, sir. Were they
put with the other papers?
Q. I don’t know. A. Same envelope,
were they? Well, I have a very indistinct
recollection of them.
Q. Are there any other papers that you
remember except those I have shown you?
A. Nothing that I recall—no, sir.
Mr. Nye-Well, I offer in evidence ex-
hibit “U,” that is the New York Life pol-
icy.
Mr. Erwin–Is that slip on there?
Mr. Nye-No.
Mr. Erwin–We make no objection to
that.
Mr. Nye—Also exhibits “V 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
and 6,” the aplication and receipts in con-
nection there with ?
Mr. Erwin–No objection to that, all re-
lating to the New York Life policy?
Mr. Nye-Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–No objection.
Mr. Nye-Now I offer in evidence exhibit
“W 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.”
Mr. Erwin–Well, in that case we sug-
gest to the court that there is a slip which
is attached to this policy which should be
and which can only be issued by the New
York office, but which, we understand, has
been received and should properly go with
offer. It was not delivered when the policy
was, but it was delivered by mail from the
New York office.
Mr. Nye–I will offer it now.
Mr. Erwin–Then, we will make no ob-
jection.
Mr. Nye-Let it be marked exhibit “W 8.”
Q. I will ask you, mayor, calling your
attention to your trip to the Ozark flats
with Harry, I believe you say Officer Doyle
was with you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. This was on what day, Wednesday?
A. Thursday.
Q. I ask you to state what Harry did,
if anything, where he took you and what
he did or said? A. He took us to the Ozark
flats and opened the door that leads into
his apartments and took us into his apart-
ment. Then the first thing he did was to
open the satchel and his trunk and he
found some letters and papers, the papers
some of them are what have been given to
you today. He then opened up his trunk
and took out two revolvers, a derringer
and a five or six shooter, I have forgotten
which it was now.
Q. Would you recognize the six shooter?
A.. I think I would.
Mr. Erwin–We will make the same objec-
tion and the same reservation to cross-ex-
amine and afterwards strike out that we
did before.
The Court—Very well.
Q. Had anything been said about
the revolvers before that time?
A. Nothing had been said about revolvers
on either side between us. He took out the
revolvers of his own accord and asked us
to look at his gun and the derringer—I
think that was his first one he handed out
to me, and we just looked at it and laid it
down, the derringer. And then he took out
this revolver, as near as I can judge, of
course I have no way of knowing it ex-
cept it was a revolver that looked like this.
And he says, “I want you to look at that
revolver and you see it is loaded, every
cartridge is in its place.” And then he took
the revolver and bent it, I think he broke
it in the middle—Mr. Doyle I think then
had it—and Harry took a piece of paper and
put it in behind the body of the revolver
and he says: “Look through and see how
clean it is; you see it is perfectly clean
and never has been used.’ And Mr. Doyle
looked through it and also myself, then he
took it and shut it up and put the revolver
back in his trunk.
Q. Did he put the cartridges back in 2 A.
The cartridges were not taken out, as I re-
member.
Q. He broke it open and
through it? A. Yes.
The Court–We will now take a recess
until 10 o’clock Monday morning.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, will the
carriage remain here? (Referring to the
carriage in which Miss Ging was riding at
the time of her murder.)
The Court—Yes, sir, the carriage will re-
main here.
Mr. Erwin–I want the carriage to he here
so that I can use it in an examination by
expert physicians, as to the fall and every-
thing of that kind.
Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
Monday morning, Feb. 11, 1895.
you looked
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 11.
ºw. H. Eustis.
Examination resumed by Mr. Nye.
Q. Did Hary Hayward explain pretty
fully to you the circumstances of this life
insurance? A. He did.
Q. Did he or did he not state anything
in regard to having at one time taken out
an accident policy on his own life for her
benefit? A. Yes, sir. He told me that
early in June, I think it was, he had taken
an insurance policy out upon his own life
for the benefit of Miss Ging, and said that
the policy was made payable in case of the
death to Miss Ging. He said that that
was not legal, that she could not have re-
covered upon it provided that he had died;
he knew that, but Miss Ging did not. He
said further—I asked him about the policy
—he said that he had destroyed the policy.
He said that policy would expire on Mon-
day or Tuesday of that week, I think it
was. Of the week that Miss Ging was
killed; and that he destroyed it some two
or three days before it expired.


































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 147
Q. Did he say as to whether he was no-
tified of its expiration, or whether he in-
tended to renew it or not? A. I think not.
Q. State any further explanation which
he made in regard to the assignment of
these policies on Miss Ging's life to him?
A. He said that he had Miss Ging's life
insured for his benefit. He said he had
found out in this first policy and by talk-
ing with a great many life insurance men
and others, that an insurance policy made
payable to anybody other than a relative
was not good; that is, that there was no
such thing as what is known in running
terms, or insurance circles—
Mr. Erwin–Did he use those terms?
A. Yes, sir, in substance he did—known
as an insurable interest.
Mr. Erwin–I ask that the witness be
confined to the words of the party.
The Court-Yes, confine it as near as you.
Call.
The Witness—Such as an insurable in-
terest; he said that a stranger could only
get an insurable interest by having that
policy made directly payable to the estate;
and he had thought this matter over a
great deal, and had made a thorough study
of that question, as to how an insurance
policy upon the life of another person, in
case of death, could be legally transferred
to another person, and if any question
about it after death, the only way to do
it was to make the policy payable to the
person, their estate, or to take an assign-
ment, a regular assignment of the policy.
Then, he said, in reference to how that as-
signment could be made valid, they told
him that there would have to be a consid—
eration. I asked him in reference to the
matter of consideration. I asked him why
it was that he paid Miss Ging $7,000 before
she even had hired her store to go into
business? He said he did that in order
that the assignment to him of the policy
might be valid; he knew it would not be
valid unless the consideration passed be-
fore the assignment; and that therefore
the assignment took place some days, some
little time after the execution of the policy.
Q. Exhibit V 1, this slip which I show
you, what, if anything, did you say in re-
gard to that. A. This is a receipt for $1.
The day that we were up in the Oneida
block he turned over the insurance papers
to me, and among the papers I found two
receipts, one for each of the life insurance
policies, and the receipts were for $1. I
says to him, “Harry,” I says, “what about
that?” “Well,” he said, “that was an ex-
tra precaution,” he said that was a receipt
for the value received and mentioned in
the policy. He said in the insurance pol-
cy there was an item of value received,
and that he had taken advice, and they
told him he had got to have a separate
receipt to show what that value received
was; and he had taken from Miss Ging a
receipt from her for $1, in full of that value
received and mentioned in the assignment.
Q. Examine the remainder of these pa-
pers and see if there is anything which oc-
curs to you, any explanation he made in
reference to any of those, and tell us what
it was, A. I don't see anything more in
these. There might be in the others. Let
me see those others again. Where is the
assignment? You haven't got the assign-
ment of the New York Life. There is
only one assignment. Here is a receipt
from John G. Purple, agent.
Q: What exhibit is this? A. This is ex-
hibit W. 1; he made some statement about
that, I have forgotten just what it was.
Exhibit W. 7 is a type written assignment
of one of these, of a mortgage.
Q. That is, you mean, type written form?
A. Type written form.
Q. It is not executed? A. No, sir; of
the assignment of that life insurance pol-
icy which, I think, he told me that Mr.
Purple drawed for him, and which he did
not use; it has underlinings in his own
handwriting.
Q. What is that exhibit? A. Exhibit
W 7; exhibit W 8 was shown during the
cross-examination at the office, and he
said that this exhibit was received from
Miss Ging on the morning of Dec. 3; when
he came down town he stopped at her
rooms in the Syndicate block and she
handed him this slip and told him that as
he had the balance of the papers, he better
take this also.
Q. Will you read that?
(The witness here reads it.)
Q. Have you given all the explanation
Harry gave you concerning this slip? You
say he said she gave it to him what morn-
ing? A. On Monday morning, “calling,”
he said, “at her room in the Syndicate on
my way down;” and I think he said she
got it in her mail that morning and handed
it to him.
Q. Did he hand that to you? A. No, sir;
I think he handed it to Mr. Hall; Mr. Hall
was there in the discussion.
Q. You started now to explain? A. Ex-
hibit W-6 is an assignment of the Travel-
ers’ Accident policy from Catherine Ging
to Harry Hayward, and at the acknowl-
edgment part of it, acknowledged on the
28th of November, and the acknowledg-
ment is signed by Adam Hanna. Below is
written “Notary Public, Hennepin County,
Minnesota.” And “Notary Public, Henne-
pin County, Minnesota,” may be in Harry
Hayward's handwriting. He told me he
took this policy down to the clerk of the
court’s office to get a certificate attached
to it in order to send it on; it had to be
done; and he said that he found that the
“Notary Public, Hennepin County, Minne-
sota,” had been left off, and that he wrote
it in there.
Q. Anything further? A. On the en-
velope?
Q. Yes, the envelope. A. Yes, sir; when
he was giving me the papers we found the
assignment of the New York Life Insur-
once policy—all the other papers seemed
to be there except the assignment of the
New York Life policy—that assignment he
said had been sent East, and on the mar-
gin of the envelope he wrote ‘Assignmeni
Not Returned.”
Mr. Hall–On the inside? A. What, the
assignment? -
Q. That envelope? A. No, it is right on
the outside.
Mr. Nye–It is not an envelope? A. It
is put here as a memorandum, marked as
a memorandum to show that the assign-
ment was not delivered to me.
Q. Did he make any explanation in re-
gard to the circumstance of the loan, sign-
ing that note in the Oneida Block? A.
Yes, sir, after we left the Loan and Trust
Company and went to the Oneida Block,




148 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
and he opened his little safe and took out
these insurance papers. I said, “Harry, I
wish you would give me a detailed ac-
count of just exactly what took place the
day the note was signed,” and he did so,
showing just where Miss Ging stood, just
how the others came in, and just how the
whole transaction was carried on. He
said there was a little table about the size
of that, a little larger, a desk, he said he
was sitting at that table when Miss Ging
came in.
Mr. Erwin–We renew the request to ex-
anine this man and see whether there was
any duress.
The Court—That was on the same day.
Mr. Erwin–This is a subject matter
other than papers. This is the subject of
declarations; your honor ruled that it
would not be proper in reference to the
four exhibits there.
The Court—The evidence already dis-
closes the fact that he was not under ar-
rest during that whole transaction and
that it was a voluntary transaction.
Mr. Erwin–We want to see whether it
Was or not.
The Court. I will permit you to ask a few
questions in reference to it, providing you
confine yourself to the transaction.
Examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Harry Hayward had been with you
continuously from what time to the time
that he made these explanations?
The Court. On Thursday? A. Between
10 and 11 o’clock on Thursday, and this was
between 12 and 1.
Mr. Smith. On Thursday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He had not been arrested? A. No,
sir.
Q. Who was with you at the time that
you first saw Harry on that day? A. No-
body.
Q. You were alone? A. I was sitting at
my desk in the office and turned around
and looked at the door and Harry Hayward
stood in the door, and I asked him to come
in.
Q. Had he come in there at your request?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had he come at his own desire? A.
As far as I know.
Q. Had you told him to come back and
report to you at the time you had been
questioning him some days prior to that?
Had you told him to come back again? A.
I don’t know. I have an idea of asking if
he would not report daily—something of
that kind—I don’t know whether I did or
not. He would remember that if he did
not.
Q. You supposed he had come in accord-
ance with your request at that time? A.
I had forgotten if I had made any request,
if I did. I did not expect him—that was
unexpected. We remained in the office, I
guess, an hour or an hour and a half, and
from there we took a carriage, and Mr.
Doyle and Mr. Hayward and myself rode
to the Ozark.
Q. Were you questioning him during the
time he was there. A. Yes, sir, all the
time. -
Q. Did you call Mr. Doyle, or did Doyle
come in? A: I called Mr. Doyle. I asked
Mr. Doyle to get in the carriage and go
with us. I ordered the carriage. -
Q. Did he allow you to take them—what
I mean is, was he willing that you should
take them? A. Yes, sir, perfectly.
Q. Did you give any receipt at the time
that you took those papers from the Oneida
Block? A. I think so; yes, sir. I am quite
sure I did.
Q. Then, you asked him, after you had
got the papers, you asked him to tell every-
thing that he knew in regard to the way
that the papers were procured? A. I asked
him to tell the transaction that took place
in that room when they say the note was
signed.
Q. Did you ask him as a person would
ask another in a friendly way, or did you
ask him as a mere subject of conducting
an investigation?
Objected to as immaterial. Overruled.
A. I simply asked him. I did not think
about these other questions at all. I was
simply trying to find out the facts, wanted
to know the details.
Q. Did Doyle ask any questions? A. He
may have occasionally asked one or two,
but the examination was done substan-
tially by me.
Q. For what purpose did you call Doyle?
A. I suppose it was for the purpose of
having a little more company; I thought
it was well enough to have somebody along
beside myself. It was a pretty serious
business. I thought it was better to have
an officer with me.
Q. You three went from your office to
what place? A. To the Ozark.
Q. Where did you go from the Ozark
flats? A. Minnesota Loan and Trust, Har-
ry and Adry, and Mr. Dolye and myself.
Then from the Minnesota. Loan and Trust
we went over to the Oneida, Block. I drove
around to the Oneida Block, and Harry
and Mr. Doyle went through the alley.
Q. How came Doyle to go with Harry?
A. Asked him to do it. Harry said to me
that he and Doyle would walk through the
alley.
Q. It was Harry's suggestion that they
walk through the alley? A. Yes, sir;
Harry told me that they were going to
do it.
Q. Did you state to him it would be
better for him to tell everything connected
with the signing of this note, everything
that led up to the procurement of the in-
surance policies A. It did not seem to
be necessary to make a suggestion. He
was perfectly willing to answer.
The Court—Answer the question.
A. No, sir; I made no such suggestion.
There was no reason why I should.
Mr. Smith—We will withdraw what ob-
jections we have made.
Mr. Nye-State briefly what explanation
he made in regard to the circumstances of
the signing of the note on the 24th of No-
vember. A. He said he had the papers or
paper ready for signing when Miss Ging
came. He had prepared them, had written
the receipts, and everything was ready,
substantially ready, or he might have had
to write a little after he came in—I have
forgotten. Then, he said that she came in
and took a seat—he was sitting on the
other side of the table, and she sat down
and signed the note. In the meantime
Blixt had come in, and he sent for the ele-
vator boy and the elevator boy came in,
and they sat to the other side of the table
and witnessed the note; first Mr. Wither-
spoon witnessed the note and then Blixt.
Then he said the money lay there in two
packages, and told her to go in the other






























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 149
room and count it, and Miss Ging took the
money and counted it. He said that she
took the packages from the table and went
into the other room and counted them.
Pretty soon she came back and said they
were $10 short. He said to her: “Go and
count them again; I think you will find
them all right.” She went back and count-
ed them again and came back and said
they were all right; said she took the
money and went out and put it in the
vault. He had had some conversation with
her in reference to the vault; and then she
went to the vault and left it; and he waited
there for a little while and then she came
back, a minute or so, and then went out
again, and then he left with Blixt and
went down to buy a stop cock, whatever
it was he bought.
Q. Did he mention whether he had any
private talk with her in a separate room
when she came back the second time? A.
I think he said that she came back just a
moment. -
Q. This talk you had in reference to
this was in the office, then? A. Sitting
right there at the desk. He showed me
where he kept the money, said he had the
money in the safe, had it there for some
time.
Examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. From what point did you take Harry
to the West Hotel? A. When I went back
from the Oneida Block we drove up to
the mayor's office on the Hennepin avenue
side and I got out. Harry did not get out
of the carriage at all. I got out just a
moment, and then got into the carriage
and drove to the West Hotel.
Q: Who drove you to the West Hotel?
A. Mr. Doyle, I believe.
Q. Where did you go when you got to
the West Hotel. A. Went to the hotel
and ordered a room.
Q. You did not order it until you got
there? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you tell them what kind of a
room you wanted 2
The Court—When was that? A. This
was on Thursday afternoon about 1.
o'clock. I told them we wanted a room
where we could be quiet.
Q: What room did you take? I don’t
know. I think it was on the fifth floor,
and on the corner of Fifth street and the
alley.
Q. Did you go up with Harry? A. Not
at that time, no sir. I am not positive
about that, whether I did or not. If I went
up I came back, and I think I did go up,
went to the room.
Q. Whom did you leave with Harry? A.
I think I left Mr. Doyle. I guess the chief,
and I think Mr. Howard.
Q. Chief Smith? A. Yes, sir; if he was
not there then he came soon after. I went
down and ordered dinner sent to them.
Q. Did you go back? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many rooms did you have there?
A. One room and another room off from it.
Q. That was about what time in the
day that you carried him there? A. I
think about in the neighborhood of 1
o'clock.
Q. He remained there how long? A. I.
should say until nearly 1 in the after-
noon.
Q. Did Mr. Bartleson come there? A.
Yes, sir, he did.
Q. What did Mr. Bartleson say in your
presence and in the presence of Harry, if
anything?
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
The Court—The objection sustained as
not cross-examination.
Mr. Erwin–It is on this principle—this
man says Harry was not under arrest.
The Court—This is after.
Mr. Erwin–We want to show by circum-
stances there was no arrest from the time,
there was no words of arrest from the time
of that conversation down to the time
that Mr. Bartleson broke into the room"
and told them this was a high handed pro-
ceeding, and he should go and get a law-
yer.
Objection sustained. Exception.
Mr. Erwin–We offer to prove upon the
record that there was no words of arrest
either by the mayor or any other person
from the time that the mayor saw Harry
Hayward in the morning during that en-
tire day, but that the circumstances were
all such as will show a detention, an ar-
rest of the person, among which was the
fact that Mr. Bartleson, a lawyer, forced
himself into the room and denounced the
proceedings as unauthorized, for the pur-
pose of showing that it was in fact no ar-
rest.
The Court–Objection
proper cross-examination.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Smith—He went there in the fore-
noon or a little before noon and stayed un-
til about 4 o’clock? A. No, sir, about 1
o'clock.
sustained as not
Q. I would like to have you state who
were present from 1 o'clock to 4 in those
rooms, if you know. A. I think I have
stated there was the chief, Inspector
Doyle, Inspector Howard, and Bartleson
was there a few minutes, and W. E. Hale
was there in the latter part of the time
and myself. -
Q. Mr. Hall there? A. No, sir, I think
not.
Q. Was this prior or subsequent to the
all-night session that you had there? A.
Subsequent—what do you mean?
Q. To the all-night session. A. The all-
night session we had at the West Hotel?
Q. Yes, sir. A. This was prior.
Mr. Nye-Harry was not in that all-night
session? A. That was the Blixt night.
Mr. Smith–It might be termed the Blixt.
night, but others were there, were they
not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Wasn't Harry there at all? A. No,
sir.
Q. Didn't Harry, at the time he made
these explanations to you in regard to
these papers, didn't he state that the whole
affair was perfectly legitimate, that the
loan was a legitimate loan, and a proper
one, and that he took insurance policies
to secure him until he should have the
chattel mortgage on her property; did he
or not? A. Yes, sir, he did.
Q. Has he not always so stated to you
when he has made any statement? A. Yes.
Q. I want to ask you, the time that you
took these papers against Harry's protest
from the vault of the Loan and Trust
Building, if you stated to him as follows,
reading from your direct examination: “I
am going to take these papers, and as





150
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
mayor of the city of Minneapolis I am en-
titled to them.”—did you make that state-
ment?
Objected to as repetition. Overruled.
A.. I don’t know whether I stated as
mayor I am entitled to them or not—the
spirit is there. I did tell him that I
would take the papers; that as mayor of
the city, I thought it was my duty to take
them.
Q. By what authority do you seize a
person's private property, against his pro-
test—as mayor of the city of Minneapolis”
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant,
immaterial.
Sustained.
Objection.
Q. I will ask you if you made this state-
ment, which I read from your direct ex-
amination: “I am going to take these
papers, and, as mayor of the city of Min-
neapolis, I am entitled to them; and, if I
do not need them I will return to you
the originals; if I do need them, I will re-
turn to you copies of them.” That is the
full sentence?
Mr. Nye-I think he has answered. He
said it was the spirit of it. -
Mr. Smith—I want a categorical answer.
A.. I don’t remember what I said—that I
said those things; that is the substance of
what I said to him.
Q. Are they true? A. Yes, sir, the sub-
stance of it is true. -
Mr. Smith–The court denies me the
right of asking him where he gets the
authority?
The Court—Yes, I deny that right.
Q. (Showing witness exhibit W-7.) Who
did Harry Hayward tell you at the time
that you obtained this exhibit had prepared
this statement? A. I think he said Mr.
Purple.
Q. Mr. Purple is an insurance agent of
one of the companies? A. I think so; all
I know about it is what Harry told me.
I think he said that he was an attorney.
Q. An atorney had prepared exhibit W-7
and exhibit W-8, you said, is a paper that
Harry said he had received from whom?
A. Miss Ging, on the morning of the kill-
ing.
Q. That is dated Hartford, Connecticut,
is it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Office of the Travelers' Insurance
Company—did he say that Miss Ging re-
ceived that by note or mail, and passed
it to him? A. I think he said that Miss
Ging told him she received it in the morn-
ing mail, and as he was coming down
there he stopped there and she handed it
to him in the office.
Q. I will ask you if Harry Hayward
showed you an envelope in which exhibit
W-8 was contained, exhibit W-8 at the
time that you took this? A. No, sir, he
never showed it to me, it may have been
shown to Mr. Hall. I never saw it before.
I am quite positive about it.
Adry Hayward.
Q. Your full name is Adry A. Hay-
ward? A. Adry A. Hayward.
Q. You will have to speak clear and
loud, because the jury is somewhat dis-
tant here. You are a brother of Harry
Hayward? A. Yes, sir, I am. -
Q. What is your age? A. Thirty-three.
Q: What is Harry's age? A. I think he
is 29. I was born in Illinois, Macoupin
county.
Q: What has been your occupation main-
ly since you went into business for your-
self? A. Well, it is real estate, loans and
collections mostly, and rentals, with my
father in the Oneida Block.
Q. How much of the time for the last
four or five years have you spent in his
office? A. It was two years, there was
two years last August since I came to
father's office the second time.
Q. And before that? A. In the mean
time I worked for Warner six or eight
months.
Q. How about last summer, the summer
and fall of '94, in what business were you
engaged? A. In the same business up to
about the 8th of October, and then I was
away for about 15 or 20 days. During that
time I was in the state of New York.
I went up to New Yor, from the eastern
part of Otter Tail county, and from there
to Park Rapids, and from Park Rapids to
Lake Itaska on a pleasure trip. I went
away the 15th of October, returned about
the 28th or 29th of October. I went in the
office after I came back about—I can’t tell
the exact date—somewhere from the 3d to
the 6th of November—I could not swear to
that date—and remained in the office then
until I was arrested. I wrote all receipts
and did all the collections almost entirely
for two years. -
Q. Your father was in the real estate
business and had charge of numerous
houses? A. Yes, quite a number of houses,
and he had to get money; he had to get a
line of loans.
Q. During the time that you have men-
tioned in which you were in the office dur-
ing the summer and fall of '94, how much
was Harry up about the office? A. Sum-
mer and fall of '94, Harry has been in the
office out and in considerably; he has not
spent any time—he has not been interested
in the business whatever; he has had noth-
ing to do with the business. He would
come in the office two or three times a day,
a short time, occasionally, and would not
conne in for a number of days.
Q. How would Harry employ his time,
to the best of your knowledge, mainly dur-
ing that summer and fall? A. Well, that I
don’t know; I cannot say how Harry has
employed his time mainly. I cannot say
how Harry has employed his time to my
knowledge to any certainty.
Q. I will ask you if Harry has had any
regular business, that you know of, at any
time, and if so, what?
Mr. Erwin–Now, may it please the court,
I object to that as immaterial and leading.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. State, Mr Hayward, what, if any-
thing, has been Harry's business for the
last two or three years and particularly
for the year 1894?
Mr. Erwin–That is objected to as imma-
terial and irrelevant.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. I will ask you now, calling your at-
tention to the summer and fall of 1894, if
Harry ever made any statements or refer-
ences to you as to how he was employed?
A. Yes, sir; he made such references.
Q. What were they?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as
and irrelevant.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
A. Now, as I understand your question,
immaterial


OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL
- 151.
what he was doing in the summer and fall?
| Yes.
º Erwin–I will enter the objection that
It is immaterial, irrelevant, improper and
as an attack upon character.
The court—The objection is overruled.
A what was he doing this summer and
fail? - -
Q. State what, if anything, he said was
his employment, or what he was doing at
any time in '94, this summer, fall or spring 2
A well, he stated he loaned some on
diamonds; well, employment, I don't know
that that would come under the line of
employment or not, but he said he loaned
some on diamonds, made some loans. I
don't know as I quite understand your
question about employment, whether it
would be considered employment or not.
Q. Well, what did he do for a living?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial
irrelevant and as an attack on character.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Note an exception.
A. He stated he made investments-I
won't say stock investments, but he said
he did some gambling at times; he did that
occasionally and loaned some on diamonds.
Q. Did he state where he gambled?
Mr. Erwin–Same objection.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Note an exception.
A. why, I don’t think he specified any
special place of gambling.
Q. Have you and Harry been on good
terms? A. I think as brothers usually
are, we have been on first class terms,
with one exception, as a general thing;
nothing serious at that, as I know of. I
don't know that that would be called seri-
ous; I am not a judge.
Q. I will ask you now, Adry, to state if
Harry ever at any time, during the sum-
mer and fall of '94, mentioned the subject
of his business relations with Miss Ging?
A. He did not call any names. He stated
he had relations with a woman; he was
speaking of investing money for her oc-
cassionally, and gambling occasionally, but
he did not mention her name.
Q. How did he refer to her, what name
did he use, how did he describe her? A.
Well, later on in the season he spoke of
her as a dressmaker, but not in the begin-
ning. He used no definite name—oniy a
woman.
Q. Well, did he explain any further in
regard to investments or gambling for her?
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, for
the purpose of saving my rights, I want
to enter an objection to the testimony of
this witness, in this, that he is not com-
petent to testify to anyhing in relation
to this homicide against Harry Hayward,
upon the ground that he labors under a
delusion and is, in fact, insane upon the
subject.
The Court—Well, I don’t see that he is
any more insane at the present time than
the attorney is.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, the law
requires me to make an objection upon
any proposition of which I expect to avail
myself, and I wish to take an exception
to the court's ruling at this time and also
to the court's remarks before the jury.
The Court–Very well, an exception will
be noted.
Q. At what time, if you can remember,
that you first learned of his business rela-
tions with a woman in connection with his
investments and gambling, as near as you
can remember? A. Well, it was Some
time in July–I should judge about the mid-
dle of July; I can’t remember the date.
Q. Now, state what that conversation
was and what business that related toº
A. He said he made some investments for
a woman, that he would win sometimes
and that he would lose sometimes and
if he lost occasionally he would pay her
something occasionally to get her to go
in deeper into the scheme. Well, we talk-
ed a little about it, and said it was policy
to do that. I can't swear positively that
those were his exact words, but he used
words something like that.
Q. Now, do you know of any invest-
ments he had in relation to this woman
prior to that time? A. I only know from
what he told me. He told me she was hold-
ing notes about that time, that she had a
mortgage on mill property; she had notes
secured by a mortgage. I forgot the name
of the place, but it was out about 15 or 18,
miles from Minneapolis, I understood; I
think it was Hamil.
Q. Have you ever been up there? A. I.
drove out there with Harry sometime be-
tween the middle and last of July; I
should judge it was about the last of July:
I don’t know exactly, but I know it was in
July some time. Harry came into the office
in the morning, and made the remark that
the young lady had a note—
Mr. Fºrwin–Objected to as irrelevant, im-
material and an attack on character.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Go on. A. He stated that he had a
note belonging to a young lady who was
boarding at No. 6, and that she wanted to
get it discounted, that she was short of
funds and that the miller— No, I would
not swear that the miller had written
about the note; I will leave that out. But
anyway that the young lady wanted to get
it discounted and that he was going out
to see the miller and see if he could take
up the note and wanted to know if I would
go along with him. I told him I didn’t
want to go. And it ran along and he came
in in the afternoon and he was looking
over the chart, the county map, and he
asked me again if I would not go with him,
and I finally decided to go with him, to
take the drive out in the country 15 or 18
miles. He said he would get a single rig
from Goosman. And so I decided to go:
at that time. I lived by Calhoun and I
sent word to my wife that I would not
be at home that night and I met Harry
at the intersection of Harmon and Loring
Park. We got into the buggy and drove
around Crystal Lake and got to Hamil in
that way. So when we got there we met
a man at the mill and Harry inquired of
him about the man who the notes were
against, I don't know the name of the man,
and it happened to be the man himself.
and Harry spoke about having the notes
for the young lady and that she wanted it
discounted–I don’t think he said he was
the agent for the lady, I don’t think that
word was mentioned, and I don’t think the
lady's name was mentioned or anything
of that kind. I won't swear that he said he
was agent for her, and he asked the miller
to look at the property, and we drove down
around in front of the mill and Harry got






152 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
|
out and he wanted me to get out; I told
him that I didn’t care about getting out-
that I preferred remaining in the buggy
and holding the horse. Well, he told me
that we could hitch the horse, and I told
him I would rather remain in the buggy, so
I did. So Harry and this man went into
the mill and they remained there 15 or 20
minutes—they went into the mill and then
they came out on the platform near where
I was and they stood there for a few min-
utes, talking about the value of the mill
and the machinery. They asked me what
I thought about the property, what I
thought it was worth, and I told them I
did not know anything about it, did not
know anything about machinery, but that
I judged it was not a very good loan-
that is the remark I made; and I got out
to hitch the horse up, something of that
kind, and that was the only time I got
out of the buggy from the time we left
until we returned. Then we turned around
and drove home again by way of Medicine
lake. I don’t think Harry spoke anything
about the loan on the way, very little, if
anything, and I cannot recollect of the
certain points that we spoke about; we
spoke about different things.
Q. Did he again refer to that matter
later? A. Later on he did.
Q. In what way did he say?
Mr. Erwin–Same objection.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception is noted.
A. I think the next I heard of that was
some time about two or three weeks after-
ward, when he came into the office one day
and informed me that he was very lucky,
that the mill had burned down and that he
would probably get to handle her money
for her—he would get her money to invest
for her.
Q. Was there anything said that day.
that you made the trip to the mill with
reference to insurance upon the property?
A. Yes, sir. He spoke to the miller about
the insurance, and it seemed that the in-
surance had expired, and the miller seemed
to be very much put out about it, as Harry
told him he understood there was insur-
ance on the property. The miller said that
there was insurance on the property, but
the agent had let it run out; he had not
been doing his duty.
Q. Now, after your return from this trip
did he refer at all to this dressmaker or to
this woman? A. The next reference to
her was at the time the mill had burned.
Q. Well, after that; you mentioned that?
A. Well, it was along in August, some
time the latter part of August—yes, that
is right; he spoke to me about the dress-
maker again, about her being hard up and
that she wanted him to pawn a ring for
her—now, I won’t be positive about the
time, but it was between the middle of
August and the middle of September. I
I won’t say positively. He said that she
was short of funds and wanted him to
pawn this ring for her to raise some
money; that it was a matter of accommo-
dation that he was doing it for her, be-
cause he was acquainted with her.
Q. Well, tell us, Adry, what you next re-
member of any conversation with Harry in
which he made reference to this woman or
his relations with her? A. I don’t know
what woman he referred to-he referred to
a woman along about that time, about Sep-
tember.
Q. What was said then?
Mr. Erwin–This is objected to as irrele-
vant, immaterial and not identified as the
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Note an exception.
A. He referred to a woman sometime in
September, to some woman, but I did not
know who it was, by asking me if I wanted
to make some good money. I told him,
“Yes, I was always willing to make money,
but it depended upon what it was.” And he
said I could make some good money if I
was not too particular about it, and he
asked me finally if I would kill a woman
for $2,000, if he would get her out some-
where, take her out driving or something
like that.
Q. If you would kill a woman? A. Yes,
sir, if I would kill a woman for $2,000.
Now are you positive as to the time,
whether it was September or October? A.
He spoke to me about it at different times,
but I am positive about the killing of the
woman—that the proposition he made to
me about killing a woman was made in
September.
Q. Well, what" was said, state the con-
versation? A. Well, he stated to me—
Mr. Erwin–The same objection, if your
honor please, and an exception.
The Court—Same ruling.
Q. Go on. A. Well, he stated to me
that she could be very easily shot, that he
could drive out with her or could get her
out, and it would be a very simple thing
to shoot her, and that nobody would sus-
pect me of ever killing a woman; that they
would look up a set of criminals and make
them explain where they were that night
and that nobody would ever suspect me of
the crime. I told him that I would have
nothing to do with killing people, and es-
pecially if I ever got down to the point of
killing people it would not be for $2,000.
There were various conversations later on.
Q. Well, now, state them as near as you
can remember them, and if not, give the
substance of what was suggested?
Mr. Irwin–The same objection and ex-
ception, your honor.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
A. He stated to me at different times
about that time, that he also proposed get-
ting the girl out in a hack, getting a cer-
tain hackman in town, and he described
him as a large, fleshy man, and he said
that this man would do anything for him.
That he could get her out in that way and
he would shoot the hackman, too. I asked
him if the hackman had a family, and he
said he had, and I made the remark that it
was a terrible thing to kill one person, let
alone another one to accomplish his pur-
pose. And he also proposed to drown the
girl in different ways, getting her out in a
boat and drowning her, but he objected to
that latter one; he said it would look like a
suicide. And he proposed driving out in a
buggy with her, and wondering how she
would fall in case she struck a boulder,
whether she would fall towards the bowl-
der or from the bowlder when she struck.
And also driving her out in a buggy and
letting her get the lines tangled in her.
hands and let the horse run away with her
and kill her. That is about all.
Q. You mentioned a period of absence,





OF THE HAY WAERD MURDER TRIAL.
153
on a short trip? A. Yes, in September,
and also in October. I went away on the
15th of September, and I went up to Wind-
sor, N. D. I was gone five or six days. I
went by myself—I went two or three miles
north of Windsor, N. D., and—there was
a dog trainer out there. I wanted to get a
dog, and he did some shooting with me.
Q. And you say you returned about the
27th of October? A. From the 27th to the
29th. I think it was the 29th. Harry was
not with me on that trip.
Q. On your return, when did you first
meet Harry? A. I can't say when I first
met him, but I think I met him a few days
after I returned.
Q. Do you recollect any circumstance of
his going to Chicago early in November,
some time about that time? A. I think it
was just before he left for Chicago he came
to my flat and stated to me that they were
all mixed up at the office with work—he
had been assisting father in the work
while I was gone. He wanted to know if I
would not come down, and I might state
here that I had had some slight trouble
with my father prior to that time, and he
asked me to come back, as he had been
requested to do so by father, and I agreed
to go back. That was somewhere about
the 3d or 6th of November, and he went
away. I don’t know just where he went.
I don't know that he left the city or not,
but he went away.
Q. Well what did he say to you in re-
gard to going away? A. Well, I can’t
swear that Harry stated to me that he
was going away any more than he asked
me to go down to the office, that he had
too much to attend to and that it would
be a help for me to go back in there.
Q. Do you know whether he was in the
office from the 3d to the 6th of November?
A. No, sir, I did not see him during that
time.
Q. Did you see him about the 6th? A.
That was election day. Yes, I saw him on
the morning of the 6th. He came into my
flat, but I don’t know where he came from.
To the best of my knowledge he did not
say to me that he had been away, but he
showed me some money in his pocket. He
drew it out of his pocket like that (indi-
cating), and my wife was standing there
and he says, “Look here.” I saw he had
some money and I think there was a news-
paper wrapped around it—well, I saw him
take something out of his pocket with a
newspaper wrapped around it. I didn't see
the money—and he wanted to know wheth-
er the banks or the vault was open.
Q. This was on election day? A. This
was on election day, And I said, “Of
course not.” And then he asked me if the
vault was opened. I would not swear that
he used those very words about the vault,
And I said, “No, it is a holiday.” And he
said, “I will have to sit up another night
with this,” referring to the money, and I
judged he was away the night before. I
did not know anything about it. Then we
walked down town; he had not had his
breakfast yet. I was going down town
and I asked him if he wanted to go down
with me, and so we walked down town
and he had not had his breakfast yet and
he wanted me to go with him and get
breakfast; I told him I had had mine, but
he insisted upon me going in with him
and finally I decided to go with him, and
when we got down as far as the Continen-
tal, on Fourth street, we went in, and he
sat down and had his breakfast and I
talked with him.
Q. Well, what was said, if anything, in
regard to his business relation with this
woman? A. Well, we talked a little while;
he spoke about being busted—he said it
was supposed that he was busted, and for
me not to tell anybody that he had any-
thing more than enough to pay for a meal.
He showed me a pawn ticket on some place
in Chicago; he showed me three rings, two
solitaires and one set with three diamonds;
and he did not want anyone to know but
what he was busted, he was supposed to be
busted. And he went out and went to the
office—I don't know whether Harry went to
the office with me or not, but I went to the
office. That was on the 6th of November.
Q. Now, after that what further occurs
to you in relation to his business trans-
actions with this woman, what statements
did he make to you? A. Well, shortly af-
ter that Harry didn’t say a great deal to
me about the woman; he stated to me at
the time that he was through with me,
that I was no good, that I had no nerve,
and that he had found a man that was
good, that had the nerve, that he was an
ex-policeman and knew enough to keep
his mouth shut, and he had tested him, and
that man was C. A. Blixt. And he left
me alone—made me feel kind of easy that
he was through with me. And a day or
two after that, about three days later,
I think it was, we were going down stairs
and he pulled out a package of bills out
of his pocket, I don’t remember whether
anything was around them or not, I can't
swear about that, and I naturally grabbed
the bills and pulled them open, and he
said, “You are not supposed to know
what they are, what there is in there;"
that is what he stated to me.
Q. Well, what did you see? A. Well, I
saw some money—I saw a hundred dollar
bill.
Q. Well, how about the other bills? A.
Well, I don't know; it looked like the oth-
er bills inside were one dollar bills, that
is the best I can say. But I know there
were a great many one dollar bills in the
center, I don’t know how many, though.
Q. You saw a great many one dollar
bills? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What is the next you remember? A.
The next I remember was—I don’t remem-
ber whether it was a day or two after-
wards, but Albert Johnson had been in the
office and he had shown him and my
father two large bunches of bills, had
talked with them and showed them the
bills and said there were seven thousand
dollars in the roll, he told me afterwards,
and he told me if Albert Johnson said
anything to me about the bills, that it
would do no harm for me to tell him, to
intimate to him, that he had seven thous-
and dollars in the bunch of bills, or more;
I didn't agree to do anything of the kind
or didn’t tell him I would, one way or
the other. Later on, a day or two after-
wards, Albert Johnson was in the office
and he said that Harry was showing his
money-
Q. Were you present when Harry show-





154 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
ed the bills to your father and Mr. John-
son? A. No, sir.
Q. And Harry was not present when Mr.
Johnson told you what Harry had said?
A. No, sir. Mr. Johnson came in and
said Harry evidently had a good deal of
money.
Mr. Erwin–That is objected to what was
said when the defendant was not present.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Well, you cannot state what Mr.
Johnson said to you when Harry was not
present? A. No, Harry was not present
When he told me this.
Q. Now, go on and state what you can
remember of Harry's statements to you of
his plans, and in reference to the seven
thousand dollars, or with reference to the
woman? A. Well, the next thing Harry
and Mr. Albert Johnson was in the office,
father was in the other room—I won’t
swear positively whether father was in the
other room or not, but I think he was—I
am positive he was. And Harry came in-
to the office where I was. I was in the
smaller office, the entrance, and he sat
down by Mr. Johnson; he sat down on his
right hand side and he slapped him on the
knee like that (indicating). “Well,” he
said, “Albert, I am going into business, I
am going in the dress making business up
on Nicollet avenue here.” Mr. Johnson
said, “You are not, Harry?” Harry said,
“Yes, I am, I am going in with a young
lady here, she is a smart young lady and
has always been in that business; she is
smart and she is a good manager, and I
am going to invest seven thousand dollars
in the business and I am going to get out
a life insurance policy on her life, and she
is going to give me notes secured by life
insurance”—and he asked Mr. Johnson if
10 per cent was legal, that he was going
to make these notes draw 9 per cent. And
he was also going to have a chattel mort-
gage on the stock when it arrived, and
also an interest in the profits above a cer-
tain annount. And Mr. Johnson SayS,
“You are not, Harry; let the women alone,
they will do you up sooner or later every
time.” -
Q. Is that the substance of his conversa-
tion with you? A. That is the whole
thing.
Q. Did he say anything about life in-
surance besides what you have mentioned?
A. He said he was going to get her life
insurance, and about that time there had
been a number of agents in to see him
about life insurance and he had been in-
quiring about the matter. And he said, as
a matter of business, square dealing, he
was going to get insurance on her life and
he wanted to know which was the right
way to do it, as a matter of legitimate
business, and he wanted the thing done
right.
Q. Well, what do you next recollect?
A. Well, he went on and stated he had
applied—I won't swear, but I understood
he had applied somewhere, I understood
to the New York Life or in the New York
Life Building, and the young lady had been
examined and passed all right, and she was
to get $7,000 insurance. And the papers
went on to New York—and he came in
one day and stated that they had come
back and there was some flaw in them,
something that was not satisfactory to
him, and he sent them back to be exam-
ined and corrected, and he was expecting
those papers back every day. And he
came into the office later on and stated
that the policy had returned.
Q. Anything in regard to the amount of
insurance? A. Yes, he said she had got
out a policy for $5,000—that she had made
a mistake and got out her policy for $5,000
instead of $7,000; she was to get a policy
for $7,000 and she make a mistake; she was
such a fool that she made a mistake and
got a $5,000 policy, and he was a little mad
about it.
Q. What did he say about her? A. He
said, “Damn her;” he hardly ever swears,
but on that occasion he says, “Damn
her,” he says, “damn her, I will kill her
anyway, because she is such a fool to
m a.ke a mistake and get out a $5,000 policy
instead of a $7,000. Damn her, I will kill
her anyway now, if I don’t get a cent,”
And he was very angry. That was from
the 19th to the 21st of November that that
statement was made, and it was about
Wednesday or Thursday in the week.
Q. Well, what further talk was there
later in regard to insurance? A. Well, a
few days after that, or the next day, he
said that she had told him that she had
decided to get an accident policy; she had
gone and got an accident policy for $5,000.
“And now,” he says, “through her making
a bull out of the other, I will make more
money than I intended to.”. He says, “I
will make notes now for the full amount
of the policies; for $10,000.” He said she
was a fool that she had made such a bull
of it.
Q. Well, go on. A. And about Thursday
or Friday—he expected her to be in at any
time—what day was it she signed the
notes?
Q. Well, that is if– A. I cannot tell the
date; that was on the 22d or 23d; I cannot
tell the exact date. And he expected her
to be in most any time, and he began to
prepare the notes; began to write them,
because he expected her to be in at any
time to sign them. So he wrote the notes
and got them ready—three or four notes,
he wrote—and he went into father's room
and Wrote them on father's desk.
Q. Well, did he have any conversation
in regard to— A. Yes, he asked me if I
had changed my ink and put in new ink,
or anything like that. I told him yes, that
I had new ink and that father had old
ink in his ink well, and if that didn't suit
him we had a bottle of Carter's ink be-
hind the door, also a bottle of Arnold's
writing fluid, if he would rather have that.
And he went into the room later on, and 1
saw he had three or four notes. I will
swear he had three, I don’t know about
the fourth, but he had three notes written
on the forms we used in the office and they
were all filled in. I can only swear as to
three of them, and I knew the form that
he wrote them on. (Exhibits shown.) The
form is what we have used for the last
eight or 10 years, and previous to that
time we used them up in Howard. The
notes he drew at that time, if they were
notes, were drawn on that form; I don't
know what he had in them, but that was
the form they were drawn on.
Q. Well, what followed concerning— A. I.
went away after he had written the notes
and the only thing I noticed when I came
back was that my blotting pads were all









OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL
155
gone ºil i had inside of the desk and out-
side was all gone, about 12 of them, and I
asked him what he had done with the pads,
and he had torn them up and thrown them
into the waste basket. That is all that was
said about it until later on. Well, I don't
know that it was Saturday, I have heard
the notes were signed on Saturday—I don’t
know that that was the time, but about
that time.
Q. Well, state what he said to you in ref-
erence to having her sign the notes. A.
Saturday I was in the office all the morn-
ing up to about 10:30, and he said he ex-
pected the dressmaker in to sign those
notes, and he said when she comes I will
have you for one of the witnesses. I said,
“I cannot, you won’t have me for a wit-
mess in any such thing.” I was afraid to
have anything to do with it. And he said,
“Well, Jack will be a witness, she will be
down about 11 o'clock,” and he said, “If
you don't want to be a witness you had bet-
ter go out.” And left about that time, or a
short time after that; I had some collec-
tions to attend to, and I did not see Hary
any more that day, after the signing of the
notes, but I saw him the following Monday.
Q. Where did you see him the following.
Monday?
A.. I saw him in the office and he
stated to me that the notes had been signed
by her Monday.
Q: Well, what next? A. On Tuesday he
wanted to know if I would give him some
bills for small bills that he had; he had
some $1 bills, more than he cared for, and
he wanted to get them exchanged, and I
didn't have much money.
Q. That was the Tuesday after the notes
were signed, the 26th? A. The 27th, wasn't
it? And I stated to him I did not think I
had money enough of my own in my pocket,
so I had $10 or $15 or $20 in the safe of my
own, and he gave me 15 $1 bills, and I ex-
changed with him, and I gave him $5 bills
for it; I might have given him five silver
dollars also. I took those bills and put
them in my box, and he stated I could use
them to buy any little articles I wanted to
for the family, the bills that I had not
given him money for.
Q. Fifteen or twenty? A. Fifteen; I will
not swear it was 20, but I will swear it was
15. And I put them in the box in the safe
and locked them in there, and I used those
bills up gradually; and later on, the next
day, I think it was the next day, because
Thanksgiving was the second day after-
wards, I think it was the very next day,
he came to me and wanted to know if I
wanted to make a dollar, that I could make
a dollar very easily if I wanted to. I told
him I did. He told me he wanted me to
take—I don’t know the exact amount, but
I think it was 50 $1 bills and go over to the
bank and get a draft for him. He Says:
"Go over to the bank and get a draft for
me and I will give you a dollar.” But I
was to take the draft back after I got it
and tell them he did not need it and get
the money back, and if I would do that he
Would give me a dollar. I refused point
blank to do that. I told him it looked too
little to do anything of that kind, and I
refused to do it. Finally he said, “You
take these $1 bills anyhow.” I told him I
didn't want them, but I took them later on,
and I had no money to give him and I told
him so; and he says, “You will be collect-
ing very soon,” it was near the first of the
calm; now you must not do this.”
month, “and you will have some of father's
money and you can give me some of them.”
And finally I took the bills and put an elas-
tic around them, and put them in the vault,
and this was Wednesday, and I used some
of the money, probably $15 or $20 out of the
$50 that was in the vault, but eventually I
used all of it. The next day was Thanks-
giving, and Harry came to me on Friday,
and stated, he says, “I was coming down
this morning and Blixt asked me if it was
not time to sacrifice the dressmaker.” I
says, “Harry, you are not going to kill the
girl, are you?” “Yes, we are,” he says,
“she will have to be the victim this time.”
That conversation was in the office; I don’t
know just the time it was, but it was some-
where between 10 and 12. I can tell about
the next day, it was nearly 11. Nobody
was in there—this was about the last of
November. I am positive of the day, Fri-
day, the last day of November.
Q. Go on. A. I said, “Harry, you
- going to kill the dressmaker?”
said, “Yes, I am; she will have to be the
victim this time.” I said, “You must not
do that; it is a terrible thing.” He says,
“She has lived too long already.” And I
talked with him in the office; told him how
terrible it was; I could not think he meant
it; and I finally told him, “If you don’t get
the idea out of your head, I will report
you.” I said, “Harry, if you do that you
will hang for it.” He got very angry and
he jumped up; he looked all around; he
looked up towards the transoms; he was
sitting in father's chair; and he got very
nervous, looked at the transom and came
over toward me. He pulled off his coat
and pulled his sleeves up; I don't know
that he had an overcoat on. He put his
fingers all over me, clutching at me. But
Harry was not his natural self at that
time; I know he was not. And I talked to
him. My only hopes was to talk to him,
because I knew that he did not know what
he was doing. And I says, “Brother, be
I kept
very quiet and I leaned the chair forward
very easily. I wanted to get out and away
from him, because I knew the boy did not
know what he was doing. And I got up
and walked very slowly out to the little
safe in my office, and he came out to nie
and he said, “Adry, Adry, I know what I
am doing now.” I said, “Never mind,
Harry, I will go away for 15 or 20 minutes,
until you get cooled off, and then I will
come back.” And I left. I thought I
would go down and tell the police about
it, but it was such a family secret that I
could not do it.
Mr. Erwin–We ask that that be stricken
out.
The Court—That last remark will be
stricken out.
Q. State what you did? A. I went to
the Nicollet House and around on Nicollet
avenue, up on Hennepin avenue and I got a
street car at Fourth street and I went
home; it was then a little after 11. I went
into my flat, and I went in and took nay re-
volver; my wife was sitting there and I
went back to the office from there, and I
asked Jack, the elevator boy, if Harry was
still up there. He said, “Yes, he was.” I
was slightly afraid. And I went in and
Harry said, “Are you back?” I said, “Yes,
are you cooled off?” He said, “Yes.” He
said: “Come here, I want to talk to you
are:
He





156 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
a while.” I went and sat down where he
was and put my feet on the radiator, and
Harry sat by the side of me, and he said:
“Perhaps it is none of my business, but I
would like to know how you expect to make
your living for the next 10 or 15 years. The
business is getting less and less every year
in the office, and it is scarcely enough now
to live on.” And I said, “You never mind,
Harry; I have managed to exist for 33
years and I think I can manage to live
longer without your help.” And then I
commenced to talk with him about what he
said about killing this girl, and I said,
“You will be haunted all your life if you
do anything of the kind.” He said, “It is
not generally known, but I have been the
cause of the death of three people already.”
Mr. Erwin–I move that that be stricken
out.
The Court—That is striken out.
Q. Go on. A. Two in the East and one—
of that one I don’t care to speak,” and
he turned red; and he said, “I have been
the means—” well, that doesn’t cut any fig=
ure at all.
Mr. Erwin–I move, since my last motion
—what has been said since my last motion.
—be stricken out as immaterial and irrele-
vant and an attack on character.
The Court—The motion is denied.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Go on with the next conversation. A.
The next conversation was that he had
caused the fire in the East.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial
and irrelevant and an attack on character.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. You are continuing the conversation
in the office after you returned from the
house. A. Yes, sir; which was about 12
o'clock. He stated that he caused the
fire in the East at a loss of half a million
dollars, or rather, he said, about $450,000.
I said, “Harry, how much did you get for
it?” He said, “Two dollars,” as if he was
disgusted with it. And then he said,
“There is nothing in haunting, Adry,”—I
referred just before that to what a terrible
thing it would be; the girl might haunt
him, and he said, “There is nothing in
haunting; people might dream certain
things occasionally,” and he said, “besides,
if you have any nerve—” I said, “Harry,
I have nerve; if you drive me to show it
I will show it in the right time, but not in.
killing people.” He said, “If you have any
nerve go out and show me, but you are so
chicken hearted about it; go out
and kill Some cripple, they are
better dead than alive.” I said, “Harry,
how would you know that I did kill any-
body if I should?” “Oh,” he said, “I
would see it in the paper in the morning,
and if it was stated in the papers, why, I
will give you the money if you go and do
this.” Then I told him again that I would
not do it, and that was the last conversa-
tion that day. Later on, I think it was in
the afternoon; later on, about 5 o'clock, I
went up and told Elder Stewart-
Mr. Erwin–Hold on. Any declaration
he made I object to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. You need not tell what you told him.
I ask you if you did communicate any-
thing concerning this matter to anyone? A.
I did.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as irrelevant, im-
material and improper.
The Court—The objection is overruled—he
has already answered it.
Mr. Erwin–I move that it be stricken
out.
The Court—The motion is denied.
Mr. Erwin–Fºxception.
Q. And who was the person to whom
you communicated it? A. It was Elder
Stewart.
Q. At what time did you see Elder Stew-
art? A. About 5 o'clock, not more than
15 or 20 minutes—it was a little after 5
probably, quarter past five; I usually leave
the office at 5 o'clock and I left pretty
early that afternoon.
Q. This was—? A. The last day of No-
vember, the day after Thanksgiving, be-
cause I collected the next day, that is the
way I placed it in my memory.
Q. Did you see Harry again after you
had seen Elder Stewart? A. I did not.
Q. Did you see him Saturday? A. I saw
him Saturday; he spoke to me and wanted
to know if I was going down town and I
told him that I would, and he said he
would like to walk down with me. He
walked down with me and he said to me,
“You had better be a little careful where
you are going to be for the next two or
three days, because something is going to
happen.” I did not say a great deal about
this. I tried to talk with him about it
to get it out of his mind. The next I saw
of Harry, to the best of my knowledge,
was near 6 o'clock, one way or the other,
He came to my flat. He says, “Where are
you going to be tonight?” “Why,” I
says, “I am going to be here,” something
like that; “going to be at home.” “Well,”
he says, “you had better take your wife
and go to the theater.” I says, “I won't
do anything of the kind”—I spoke rather
sharply to him. I might have said, “I will
do as I damn please,” something like that.
He said, “You had better not stay at home
as something is liable to happen, and your
wife's evidence will be no good if you stay
at home;” and I did stay all the evening
in the flat there; that was the 1st of De-
cember, and he said Sunday or Monday, I
don’t remember which, “I understood you
were out looking for papers early Sunday
morning?” I said, “I was; I was afraid
something was going to happen.” And he
said, “No,” and he smiled. Now, I don't
know whether that was Sunday morning
that he said that to me.
Q. When, if any time, did you see Harry
on Monday, that is, the 3rd of December?
A. I saw Harry about 1:30. I won't swear
I did not see him before that, but I don't
think I did. -
Q. Well, what were the circumstances
of your seing him? What was there? A.
Well, Mr. Waterman was there at the time
waiting to see Harry. Mr. Waterman came
into the office and asked me if Harry was
in there—that was the afternoon trip-
and I told him he had not; and a little
while after that Harry came in and they
went into father's office and they drew
up their chairs together and talked a Lit-
tle while very low—and they were not there
but two or three minutes and they went
a Way. Harry returned about 4 o'clock.
as near as I can remember, and
wanted to know if I had some money
for him, and I told him I had nothing ex-







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
157
cept some $1 bills. And he said, "I
don't want those, haven't you got $5
bills?” I told him “no, but I thought
I had some silver,” and I think I gave him
five silver dollars and I said, “Harry, where
is Mr. Waterman, you are not trying to
get him into trouble, are you?” Harry was
in considerable of a hurry, I won't say he
was nervous, but he was in a considerable
hurry. He said, “Oh, I have got him out
next door filling him up, and he
may get into trouble.” I didn't see
Harry again until night. Then Harry
came to my flat from 17 to 13 minutes
of 8 of the night of December 3, between
those times I will swear positively, by my
clock. I went in and looked at my clock.
Q. Well, go on and state what occurred
at that time. A. He rang the bell and my
little boy came running after me—well, I
am going ahead of my story—I told him in
the office that I would give him some money
that evening. He asked me, “Have you
got any more money?'' I says “I have
Harry.” I told him to come down to the
house that evening. I gave him the money
and we got to talking and Hary says,
“You had better go to the theater tonight,”
and I said “Why?” He says, “Because
sohething is going to happen tonight, Dec.
3.” And I said, “No, Harry, you must not
do it,” and I talked to him and he said to
me—I won’t say he whispered, but he spoke
to me very low, and he said, “It will have
to be done; don't bother me; take your wife
and go to the theater; go away from
me,” waving his hands. That is the only
time I ever saw Harry excited. He then
had his hand on the Thirteenth street en-
trance.
Q. Your flat was in the Ozark? A. Yes,
S11".
Q. Was that all that was said at that
time when he left? A. No, he said, “Go
away and leave me alone; don’t bother me
—I am in a hurry.” And I talked with
him and he throwed his arm like that, and
he said, “Go away from me; don’t be a
fool, take your wife and go to the theater.”
I got him by the arm and prevailed upon
him to stay, but he said he was in a hurry.
I went in and my wife was rocking the
baby. I said, “Don’t you want to go and
see your folks tonight?” She said, “No:
the children are sick and I am tired, and
I don't want to go.”
Q. Well, I don't want that—was there
anything said by Harry to you concerning
what you should do that night? A. Yes,
he stated to me besides, “If you don't go
to the theater, if you won't go will you go
down into my flat about 9:30 and see if my
revolver is under my pillow.” I said, “I
won't go near your flat.” “Well,” he said,
“will you put your curtain up to the win-
dow on the corner, if there is any unusual
excitement on the corner of Thirteenth and
Hennepin at that time?” I told him
would not do anything of the kind. And
that night I went over to my father's and
I returned 10 minutes after 9.
Q. Where did you live? A.
pin, next to the Ozark.
Q. And you returned to your home what
time? A. Ten minutes after 9, not quite
by my clock. I went direct to bed. My
wife was in bed at the time.
Q. Did you observe anything later in the
evening? A. After I was in bed—I don't
1223 Henne-
know the time, but it was nearly 10 o'clock,
I don't think I would be very far out of
the way, because when I got in bed it was
half past 9, and I had been in bed some
time, and all at once I heard a quick walk
on the Thirteenth street side, walking
quick, as though they were coming up on
the sidewalk, and then I heard one or two
more quick steps, as though they came up
into the entrance, and I don't know where
they went to, but I supposed down in the
basement. I saw nobody. Later on, six or
seven minutes after these steps came in,
there was a light in Harry's bath room.
Q. On a direct line with your bed room?
A. Yes, sir; there is a transom in the bath
room, or a half light, and also in my door,
and there was no curtain over the transom
and I saw the light.
Q. Well, later on that night or early in
the morning, did you see Harry? A. Har-
ry came to my flat and rang the bell, and
I woke up and went to the door. I asked
him who it was at first, and he said,
“Harry.” He said, “Open the door,” and
I opened the door. I went out, and he
said, “Don’t you know what has hap-
pened?” I asked him the time first,
though, and he said it was 3:30. And he
said, “Don’t you know what has hap-
pened?” I opened the door then and my
wife came out at that time, she was within
20 feet of me. And Harry said, “Miss Ging
has been murdered, she has been found
away out beyond Lake Calhoun stone
dead.” I asked him to come in with me
a while, and he said, “No, put on your
clothes and come out.” I said I did not
want to, but I did come out. We had
been in the hall a little while, and he
said, “Come into my flat.” Aid I said,
No, Harry, I don't want to go into
your flat. I a.m. tired,” But I
went into his bed room and sat down and
rested for a few minutes; and Harry turn-
ed around, took his keys out of his pocket
and unlocked his trunk and in the top
of his trunk, in a tray, he reached down
and took out a Colt's revolver; he took
it out and took out the cylinder and the
cartridges he had in it and he cleaned
the cylinder with a cleaning rag and wiped
the revolver off.
Q. Do you recognize exhibit “H” (Re-
volver shown witness.) A. I cannot swear
to the revolver, only it is a duplicate of
the one he had, I have one just like it only
it is a little older. It is the same style of
a gun as that. I don’t know that this
is the gun. He cleaned it with a cleaning
rag, cleaning the cylinder and the bar-
rels, but I did not see scarcely any dirt
upon the cloth when he got through with
it, very little, if any.
Q. What did he do with the clothº A.
He threw it in the water closet. He stated
at the time he was in there, he stooped
over, and he said, “It is just like picking
up money,” that is what my brother said
at that time. I said, “Harry, I want to
go to sleep. I must get back to my flat,
my wife will get nervous hearing this
news.” And I said, “Come on and go with
me;” he did not want to go, but finally I
got him to go with me and he came and
he laid on my lounge and I covered him up
with my overcoat, and he brought a
wrench along with him to turn on the
steam; and he laid there for quite a little



158
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
while, and then he laid there for some-
time and then he wanted a newspaper,
and I went out in the hall and I talked
with a newsboy about the news. There
was somebody else in the hall and he did
not have a paper to spare, and Harry got
up and came out and went over in another
flat across the building and got a paper
and he said he would go to breakfast.
That was about 6:30; I told him I would
have my breakfast about 7:30. I don’t
know where he went, but he said he was
going to get his breakfast.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock
p. m.)
AFTERNoon session, FEB. 11.
A dry Hayward.
Direct examination resumed by Mr. Nye.
Q. The conversation in the early morn-
ing in his room, you said, was at half
past 3. Do you recall any further conver-
sation than you have already given at that
time, or anything further that was done,
while in the flat, in his room, at the time
he cleaned the revolver that you speak of 2
A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. The next morning, or rather that
same morning, did you go to bed after
that? A. I did not. Ex.
Q. You say that you got a paper for
him A. No, sir. I went out and tried
to find a paper and I came in and Harry
got the paper himself, and after it was
read he took it back up there.
Q. Did you have any further conversa-
tion with him that day? A. I did not
see Harry any more this morning of the
4th when he said he was going after his
breakfast, until he came in the office about
10 o'clock, and there were some detectives
came in—I did not know them at that
time, but they were in there—I suppose I
heard since—the detectives talked with him
a little while and finally some one else
came in, another detective, I think Law-
rence, and talked to Harry, and I, part
of the time. I think he requested him to
go down to the office where it would be.
more comfortable; then he left, and I saw
no more of him that day until the next
morning at 10. About that time he came
in the office of the Oneida. Block. I think
when he came in the reporter of the Pen-
ny Press was there. The reporter asked
something about the notes to Harry, and
asked him to show them to him, and he
said “No, I will not show them; I have
been advised not to.” He said that he
would have to go up and see about the
life insurance.
Q. Did you have any further talk with
him after that until you and he were both
arrested? A. Yes, sir, I did. Wednesday
night, somewhere between 5 and 6, I think
about that time—closed to 6, I think—I
came home. I saw alight in the bath-
room. I called Harry and asked him if
he was there. He said “Yes.” Harry was
washing his hands, and explained that he
had not had a good wash since they had
questioned him, all night, and he was
cleaning up, and I was going to talk to
him, went to close the bathroom door, and
he told me not to close it, but to let
everybody see, to leave the door open; and
I went back into my flat.
Q. Anything special said about the mur-
der at that time? A. There was one thing
said. I made a remark to Harry. I said:
“Harry, this is terrible.” He said: “Don’t
ever speak of it again. “He said: “A
week's time I will forget all about it; and
never from this day mention it.” That
was all that was said.
Q. Did you have any conversation with
him again? A. Later in the evening 1
was taking a bath in my flat, about 8 to
8:30, and Harry was there, just came in,
and wanted the curtains up. As he was
evidently watched, he wanted the detec-
tives to see that he had the shades up in
the house. He put up the shades and I
came out, and while I was in there—shall
I tell what my wife said?
Q. No, sir, state what Harry said. A. I.
did not hear Harry say anything.
Q. Was Harry present? A. When she
game to the bathroom, no, sir. He heard
her, I should judge; he was there in the
next room.
Q. Do you know? A. I don’t know that
he heard it. I came out from taking a bath
partially dressed and lay down on the
lounge there, and Harry stood there talk-
ing to us, reading the newspapers, and
stayed there until, I think it was a little
after 11—I spoke once or twice, and was
kind of joking, and talked with him, and
he left shortly after 11, and that is the
last I saw of Harry until Thursday noon
he came to the flat with ex-Mayor Eustis.
Harry introduced me to the mayor. I did
not recognize him at the time, and he said
“Will you go down to the vault and un-
lock the box; he wants to see the notes.”
And I said, “It is dinner time; lunch; can
go after lunch.” Eustis said, “It is a good
time now.” And went inside a minute and
came out and went down to the vault and
went inside, and Harry made a request be-
fore he went into the vault that he ought
not to take the notes out of the vault—that
was the understanding, and I don’t know
what answer Eustis made—he understood
the same—I understood it. He did not
make any direct answer about taking out
the notes. He went into the vault and took
the notes and said, “I will keep them,”
and Harry objected and I also objected—
said it was not light. There was a de-
tective there—I think it was that man be-
hind you there. I don’t know whether it
was Doyle or not. We talked awhile. We
finally decided it was better to let him
have the notes, and the vault man came-
Mr. Lane—and they put the marks on the
back of the notes, each one’s initials; also,
Eustis gave Harry a receipt which I put
in the box and have there now. That was
Thursday noon. Harry left the vault, went
through the alley with the deteºive, and
Mr. Eustis went around and I wºut home.
I did not see Harry any more. -
Q. When were you taken into custody?
A. The warrant was read to me about 11:30
or a quarter to 12, Thursday morning, on
the 6th of December.
Q. After that you were held in custody,
were you? A. Yes, sir; I was put in the
lock-up that night, and the next day about
11 I was taken to the county jail.
Q. Did you see Harry in the county jail?
A. I was in the same cell there with him.
Q. How long were you in the same cell
with him? A. From 11 in the morning to
about 6 p. m., I think it was. It was dark
when he took me away. During all that
time we were the only persons on the up-
per corridor.

































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
159
Q. Did you know where Blixt was dur-
ing that time? A: I don't know.
Q. He had been arrested, had he not?
A. I don’t know. We had the papers
there. I did not read very much in the pa"
pers. Harry read most there. If I remem-
ber right, Blixt had not been arrested
when he was in the sweat box.
Q. About as bad as an arrest?
erally considered worse.
Q. During that afternoon, during that
day that you were in the cell with Harry,
state if you had any conversation in re-
lation to this murder. A. Very little was
said. Harry made a remark to me to that
they were pushing Blixt rather close—he
was reading the paper, and he says, “Oh,
well, Blixt will stick; besides I am not so
sure that Blixt did it; I am not sure but
that the man that did this is in New York
at the present time. I am more afraid of
what you might say than anything else,”
and turned to me and tapped me on the
shoulder.
any reply or not.
Q. In the evening, I understand,
were separated? A. It was after the
lights were lit—I don't know what time; it
must have been about six. That night I
was taken to St. Paul about 1 o'clock, and
never got sight of Harry since until last
Thursday afternoon.
Q. You met him in the court room? A.
Yes, the only time I ever saw him since.
Do you recall any conversation dur-
ing all this period of time that you have
covered in your testimony, that you did
not mention before dinner 2
A. Well, there was something else—
nothing except a conversation saying that
he was going camping up to Crooked
Lake, and the young lady objected.
Q. Did he say what young lady? A. I
won’t swear that he said the dressmaker.
Q. Did he state anything further about
the young lady? A. She did not want him
to go. I cannot say just what he said fur-
ther than that. It is a little bit indefinite,
I would rather not go into it.
Mr. Nye–I believe that is all.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You say you have got a revolver just
like this, the one shown in evidence? A.
I have a revolver, as far as I know is
a duplicate, marked D-38 Colt—an older
one-
Q. When did you first meet Miss Ging?
A. I never met Miss Ging—never saw her
in my life.
Q. Do you know Coffee John? A: I do.
Q. Do you know where his road house
is? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you not during last summer and
autumn drive Miss Ging out to Coffee
John's road house? A. I did not.
When were you first put in the sweat
box'. A. Well, as far as I know, what
they call the sweat box, it was—I was ar-
rested Thursday, wasn't it?—yes, it was
that—I was requested by Detective Hoy
and the sheriff who came to see me just
about 4 o'clock Thursday, the first time
they had anything to say to me.
Q. In the meantime you had been at
liberty? A. Yes, sir, I had as far as I
know I had. I might have been shad-
owed; I know nothing about that.
Q: What time was Blixt put
A. Gen-
in ºhe
I don’t know whether I made
you
sweat box2 A. I know nothing about it; I
can’t tell you when.
Q. You know what time he went away
from his duty as engineer there? A. No,
sir, I did not. I never had anything to
do with the block; I don't know anything
about it.
Q. You read the papers, did you not.
up to the time that you were put into the
sweat box, as to what was going on? A:
I read the papers— let me see—up to and
including Thursday morning, I cannot
swear to it; that is, I naturally read ev-
erything I could get hold of on that.
Q. Now, who did you first see in the
sweat box, so-called? A. I did not see
anybody, neither—that is unless you mean
the officers.
Q. well, who were they? A. They are
the two county attorneys, Mayor Eustis
and Mr. Hall and Mr. Lawrence, and Mr.
Hoy, I think. I don't think there was any-
one else there.
Q. Where were you? County attorney's
office, Guaranty Loan.
Q. what were you there for—what did
they ask you? A. They asked me ques:
tions pertaining to this, trying to-I don't
know what—they asked me questions
claiming I knew about the murder. They
were trying to scare me, I suppose. There
was not any intimation; there wasn't any
force, but they talked about it and re-
ferred to a scar on my cheek, which they
tried to make me believe was there. I
told them to look for it. I don't know
as they asked me to account for it. I
don’t know that they said that—wanted
to know where I got that scar. I told
them if they could find one there there
might possibly be a scar there, but not
to my knowledge. I did not say there Was
not one.
Q. You knew that the town was excited,
did you? A. Well, I had not heard a
great deal. I heard the murder excited a
great deal of bad feeling.
Q. Didn't you say that there was such
a bad feeling that if the murderers were
found, they would be executed right off?
A. The only person I heard make a re-
mark—I don’t think I saw it in the papers
—I heard Harry say to me myself, “If the
man was arrested for this murder he
would not stay in jail 15 minutes.” He
stated that in the flat the night I was
taking a bath, which was Wednesday
night I believe. He said: “If the murderer
is found, the person that murdered this
girl, he could not remain in the county
jail 15 minutes.” That is the very words
Harry said.
Q. He meant that he would be done away
with by the public? A. That is the way I
understood it. I don’t know what he
meant. I understood it in that way.
Q. Did you ask these men whether
you were arrested? A: I did not.
Q. Were you detained there? A. Not
against my will until about 11 o'clock in the
evening, my father came in the meantime
and told me not to say a word. I did not
state anything that I know of particularly
I understood I had not been detained. I
had not tried to leave. I did not quite un-
derstand the law. I understood they want-
ed to get the inside track of this ºnºurder;
and about 11 o'clock it was about time to
have something to eat and they came up




160 OFFICIAL STENOG
RAPHIC REPORT
and served a warrant on me.
or a little after 11.
Q. During all this talk to you, from the
time that you were placed in this position,
up to the time of your arrest, did you con-
stantly deny having any knowledge what-
ever of this matter? A. I denied, if they
accused me of anything, as to knowing who
did this, I denied all that most emphatic-
ally. I told them if I knew my brother
was guilty, I would not tell on him, but I
think he is not guilty.
Q. You asserted your brother was inno-
cent, and you knew nothing about it? A.
I gave them to understand that they could
not get anything out of me.
Q. Did you constantly tell them you
knew nothing about it? A. Yes, sir, I
don’t know just what I said about Harry,
but I knew I did not accuse Harry. I know
I tried to throw all the suspicion away from
him all the time I was there. I will say
that much.
Q. How long did you remain in the coun-
ty attorney’s office after you were arrest-
ed? A. I did not remain there at all.
Q. Now, Mr. Hayward, did not the par-
ties who were talking with you strenuously
insist that you did know about it, could tell
about it? A. I think they said to me I
did probably know who did this—I don’t
know but what they accused me direct of
knowing something; I don’t swear they did.
They asked me some very peculiar ques-
tions, asked me about it which I knew they
could not have got except from one man.
Q. They said that there was a scar on
your cheek? A. Only once they made a
jump at me.
Q. Who did that? A. Mr. Hall. I said:
“If you find a scar”—I turned to the de-
tective—“is there. I don’t know that it
is there.” He jumped like that.
Q. Caught hold of your collar? A. No,
sir, no man catched me by the collar.
Q. They said: “Where did you get that
scar?” A. Did not point at me at all, but
looked toward the cheek.
Q. What did you say to Mr. Hall? A. I
think my words were: “If there is any
scar there you can find it.” I think those
are about the words used.
Q. Did you answer how long you re-
mained in the office after they served a
warrant on you? A. I did not remain, to
my knowledge; I went out of the county
attorney’s office into the next office and
made a remark that I thought I would go,
and Mr. Hall said: “We have to serve a
warrant on you,” and put me under arrest.
I said: “All right, put me under arrest. I
am through talking.”
Q. Then what did they say?
Hoy a warrant for me.
Q. Where did they take you? A. Went
down to the city hall—to Chief Smith's
office, I think it was.
Q: What did Hoy say to you coming
down? A. I don’t think Hoy said over
eight or ten words to me. One thing he
said, that if I knew anything about this
case he thought it would be best for me
to tell the truth about it. I said “I know
nothing about it.” I think that is the re-
mark I made: “You cannot get anything
out of me.”
Q. Where did
Smith's office.
Q: What was said to you in Smith's of:
That was ji
A. Gave
he take you? A. To
fice? A. I don’t believe there was a word
said concerning the case. I stayed there
and, as I understood it, I wanted to see a
friend of mine sent to me. Before I got
there—back further—this warrant was not
read to me, and asked to read it, and he
said: “No, wait awhile; I will go with
you.” In the meantime I had promised to
get a friend—Mr. Warner—who had a war-
rant and was going to come down and
stay there with me while they were talk-
ing, and I wanted someone to hear what I
said. They evidently thought I would not
want to be arrested, but changed their
minds and ordered the warrant served
about 11:30, and read the warrant to me in
the little restaurant across the street.
Q. What did it say? A. I did not pay
particular attention. I was charged direct-
ly with shooting Miss Ging; with killing
her with a bullet propelled by powder.
Q. Were you put in the lockup shortly
afterwards? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who was with you in the lockup? A.
Nobody with me to my knowledge except
the corridor seemed to be filled with drun-
ken fellows, with men with their heads
tied up.
Q. How long were you alone there? A.
Alone there until the next morning—I don't
know just when it was. I think father
came to me between 8 and 9, and said he
had retained, and who he had retained to
defend Harry, and I asked him what I
should do about myself and he did not
seem to know, and asked him as a special
request if he would send Elder Stewart
to see me. I evidently had nobody to de-
fend me and Elder Stewart came down.
In the meantime Mr. Hale came down, and
reiterated our talk to him. I talked to
the elder three or four minutes and he
left, went back up town and Mr. Hale
went out
Q. Where were you taken from there?
A. After breakfast to the municipal court.
I was taken from there down stairs, talked
a little with Mr. Hall, Harry and I togeth-
er in the washroom before they went out,
before we were put in the patrol wagon
and taken to the county jail.
Q. When you were brought to the coun-
ty jail, were you both put in the same
corridor and tier of cells? A. Yes, the
same corridor; both bunks in the same cell.
Q. Anyone else in that corridor? A. No,
Sir.
Q. It was the upper corridor? A. Yes.
Q. So you had plenty of opportunity
from 11 o’clock that day until 6 o'clock that
night to have talked with your brother?
A. Yes, plenty; that is, this way, as the
expression was that he probably wished
to listen, and did not want me to breathe
or say a word.
Q. Did he state that? A. He said it
when he spoke about anything at all.
Q. Didn't Harry tell you that you acted
as if you were guilty by not talking? A.
Harry did not; never breathed such a
thing. He knows that. He can look at
me and see whether I am lying or not.
Q. Did you say to him, “I wish I could
feel as good about it as you do?” A.
did. -
Q. Wasn't that in answer to his telling
you that you acted as if you were guilty?
A. He said, “We are not guilty.” I said,
“I know I am not, Harry—what makes you
speak so loud.” I did not know that













OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL
161.
Harry was guilty, only in what he told me.
Q. You were with him under these cir-
cumstances from 11 o’clock of that day un-
til 6 o'clock that night, and that is all the
conversation you had with him on this
subject matter? A. I won’t say it was all,
because what I told you that he said Blixt
would stick—there may have been a little
conversation—very little said any way—he
thought somebody had hid to listen, as it
was customary in the jail, as he expressed
it.
Q. How was it that he said that the man
was probably in New York that done this?
A.. I don’t know.
. How was it. in what manner 2 A. I
will tell you—we were lying there on the
bunk—he was reading the paper, and they
were crowding Blixt very close, and I says
to him, made the remark about it, “Crowd-
ing Blixt pretty close, are they?” He
said, “Yes, but Blixt will stick; besides I
am not so sure Blixt did it. I am not so
sure but what the main that did that is in
New York.”
Q. How did he speak it, in a loud voice
or in a whisper? A. He spoke it in a
whisper, turning over to me and tapped me
on the shoulder and said, “I am more
afraid of you, what you know, than any-
body else.”
Q. Did he say that just the same way,
whisper? A. Yes, sir; whisper very low.
Q: What did you say? A. I don’t think
I made him any answer I did not feel
guilty, and I did not know he was guilty,
or nothing about it. As soon as he told me
before I remarked to him I was not guilty.
Q. Did you not have any sense at that
time that he was guilty? A. No sense,
only his story to me.
Q. You had simply a memory of his story
to you? A. Got a memory—it might have
been a memory.
Q. You had no feeling that he was guil-
ty? A. You want to know if I had a feel-
ing. I would not like to answer that ques-
tion because it is against Harry to answer
it. If you want to know if I had a feeling
I will tell you.
Q. You just said you had no sense that
he was guilty, did not know he was guilty?
A. Not at all.
Q. Except the story which he told you?
A. As I remembered what he told me; I
decided he was guilty if he carried out
what he told me he was going to do, that
he must be guilty. -
Q. Didn't you say that you did not feel
guilty yourself, and you did not know he
was guilty? A. I say I did not know he
was guilty. I did not know he was guilty,
and I don't know it yet.
Q. Have you given all the conversation
that took place between you and your
ºther between 11 o'clock that day and 6
º'clock that night on this subject matter
that you testified to? A. As far as I know
I have. If you can bring out any point to
make my memory better I will tell it. I
don't think there was any point different.
When did you first know that your
brother Harry was negotiating, or that
Miss Ging was negotiating with insurance
*sents for the purpose of having her life
º A. Well, I knew that about,
º Positively from what she said, that
* was negotiating about life insurance
somewhere close around the 7th or 8th of
November—I won’t say the day, but it was
from the 3d to the 9th of November. I
cannot tell the exact date. I could get
nearer probably, but I might make a mis-
take, and it is the best to leave it that
way—about as near as I can get it. I
cannot bring up events to prove the time.
Events could be brought up to prove the
date, I suppose.
Q. You cannot bring up these events? A.
I know about what time it was, certainly,
because he spoke after he got back from
the Chicago trip, he spoke to Albert John-
son about the life insurance, and all that,
and bring these things back to me so
I know when it was—I just returned to
work in the office again.
Q. I will ask you to state to the jury
when it was that you first learned that
either Harry Hayward or Miss Ging were
negotiating for life insurance? A. I never
heard of Miss Ging at that time. I did not
hear it that way; I stated that this morn-
ing.
Q. What month was it that you first saw
her.
Objected to as a repetition.
Mr. Erwin–What I want to show is that
there is no possible basial fact for this
memory.
The Court—You have asked the question
and he has answered it the best he knew
how, and gave his reason for giving the
date and all about it, and that is enough.
Q. You cannot state the time of day?
A.. I cannot state the time. My remem-
brance is in the forenoon. I won't state
the forenoon.
Q. You cannot state any circumstances
connected with it? A. I can, certainly.
The circumstance that he was speaking to
Johnson, that he was going to get this
insurance.
Q. Was that the first time that you ever
heard it? A. No, I won't say it was:
but that is the only positive time that I
would like to swear to. I think I have
heard it before, but I am under oath and
I could not say, although I am quite con-
fident, I think that is a few days after he
returned from Chicago.
Q. Do you now say you overheard it be-
fore you heard him speak of it to Albert
Johnson? A. Before November?
The Court–Before you heard him speak
of it to Johnson?
A. I don't think I ever heard him speak
about insuring the dressmaker. He spoke
about insurance before that, life insur-
ance, before November, if that will do any
good, he spoke about that. -
Q. The first time that you ever had in
your mind any of the circumstances of this
insurance, was when you heard him tell
Albert Johnson what you related in your
direct examination? A. The circumstances
and surroundings of insurance, that is the
first direct—I remember all about that
time after he had taken this insurance,
or was going to take it on the dressmaker's
life to secure him in the business he was
going in, as I stated.
Q: What time was that? A: That was
somewhere from the 3d, I should judge, to
the 10th of November—probably about the
7th or 8th–I could not say exactly, but it
was the first half of November, I am sure
of it. That is rather a wide range. I can
make it a little cºnser.




º OEFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
|
Q. Had you a feeling on your mind that
you had heard it before? A. No, not a
bit of feeling that I had heard anything
about the dressmaker. He had spoken
about life insurance.
Q. About getting life insurance for any
other person than himself? A. I did not
hear him about himself.
Q. The life insurance he spoke about be-
fore, was what kind of life insurance—
what was it for 2 A. I know nothing
about it. Had been talking about life in-
surance; he asked me what I knew about
life insurance. I happened to have an ac-
cident insurance policy in the Travelers,
and he supposed I knew the rate and all
about it.
Q. When was that? A. Some time in
October, the first part of October, I should
judge; the first half of October.
Q. Where was it? A. The talk was al-
most always in the office.
Q. Where was this first talk about rate?
A. In the office, as far as I know about
the insurance, the early insurance talked
about, he asked me what I knew about
life insurance.
Q. What was the conversation? A. I
don’t know that I remember the conversa-
tion. It came up—he spoke at different
times, “What do you know about life in-
surance?”
Q. I don't care what he has done at
different times. I want you to state at
one time—you light on the limb and stay
there. A. I will stop at a limb and stay
there. Just wait a minute. He wanted to
know if some time about the first of Oc-
tober, or it may have been the last six
or eight days in September, that he spoke
about accident insurance and wanted to
know—he had been to see the Travelers’
agent in regard to insuring a woman—he
said a woman—no dressmaker in it, and
wanted to know if he could get an in-
surance on a woman’s life. This agent
said he could not get insurance on the
woman’s life unless he was engaged to
her. That was what he told me. I don’t
know what the agent told him. I am tell-
ing you what he told me. That is what
Harry stated to me. That was some time
in the latter part of September or the first
part of October; or he had to have an
insurable interest, but he could have, as
I understood him to say, an interest—that
an engagement to the girl was practically
an insurable interest. That is the way I
understood it.
When did he ever have any more
talk about insurance until he talked with
Johnson 2 A. He talked off and on about
insurance, and very little about insurance
there, I am not sure, the latter port of
September or the first part of October,
when he talked insurance, and I did not
hear a great deal of him, for I left the
office from that inne until the 28th of Oc-
tober, and naturally would not see much
of him. He might have said other things;
I don’t recall them now; but I remember
distinctly the statement he made to Al-
bert Johnson.
Q. I know he may have said it, but have
you any memory of his having said it? A.
I have a pretty good memory of most
things. What do you want to know? I
don’t understand your question. Memory
of his having said in November any other
statement?
Mr. Nye–He wants you to fix the day
and the hour and the minute.
Mr. Erwin–I will inform the witness, if
you please, what I want. I am not trying
to confuse him. I want you to tell me
whether you have any memory of any
other talk with your brother about insur-
ance, except the two talks which you now
tell between the last of September or first
of October, and the talk with Albert John-
son 2 A. He spoke of insurance right
along, off and on, up to the time his poli-
cies came.
Q. I ask you if that is not the time of
the first talk, the last of September and
the first of October, and the talk with Al-
der Johnson—do you recollect any talk be-
tween those times? A. I do not; very lit-
tle, if any—I don’t recollect any.
Q. Do you recollect any? A. Not at the
present time, I do not.
Q. What do you say “very little, if any”
for? A. A few days before he talked to
Albert Johnson—I am very careful what I
swear to-I could swear a little more liber-
ally, if necessary, in other instances.
Q. You could swear more liberally in
any other instance? A. I know positively
things that I could say that I know are
true, but if there is any shadow of doubt
I don’t want to say what they are. That is
what I mean to say.
Q. You mean to say now that you know
things you are testifying about that are
true as far as you know, and yet you don't
want to swear to those things you are not
positive of 2 A. No, sir, everything I said
is true. There are other things I could
Say.
Q. Which you are positive about. There
are things which you are sure about, but
which under oath you won’t swear to? A.
Not at all. -
Q. What else did you say about that
just now? A. I want to swear to as little
as possible that directs against my brother
as little as possible. If you want to
drive me out on this point I am willing to
draw them out. I do not wish voluntarily
to tell things he has told me; but as far as
insurance is conucerned between these
times, I think there is nothing between
there.
Q. Who told you to adopt that method
to swear to as little as possible? A. My
conscience told me.
Q. Your conscience? A. Yes, I have a
conscience, although you may not think
it.
Q. I have not said you did not have. A.
Probably not; you may doubt it.
Q. I have not said there is any doubt
about it. A. I don’t know that you have.
Q. After the talk with Albert Johnson,
you knew then of the whole schedule and
circumstances of his wanting things—he
went over it? A. No, sir, not at that
time—I did not know the whole circumstan-
Ces.
Q. You knew he was going to get some
lady insured? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You knew that he was going to loan
money? A. He said so.
Q. You knew he was going into the milli-
nery business? A. He said so.
Q. He was going to advance the money.
take her insurance policy as security, and
chattel mortgage upon the merchandise
that was used in the business, and fixtures?
A. And a certain interest in the business
over and above a certain amount of profits.







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
163
Q. Nine per cent upon the capital invest-
ed, and then have an interest in the busi-
ness? A. I think 9 per cent.
Q. You knew he said that this dress-
maker was a smart woman, attended to her
business, and that the investment was per-
fectly safe? A. He stated so there in the
presence of Mr. Johnson.
Q. Mr. Johnson advised him to keep away
from women; that they would do a man up,
but he insisted on doing it? A. He said
he would do it anyhow, go into it anyhow
—that is what he said.
Q. And he had already got this woman
insured? A. I won't say already. He said
he was going to. I don’t know when he
applied for the policy. I don’t know the
date.
Q. Who else was present beside you and
Albert Johnson and Harry? A. At one of
the talks father was in the office in the
other room; Harry came into father's office
from where Johnson was, and the door was
open.
Q. Now, then, you heard Johnson say
afterwards that he saw money that Harry
had'? A. Johnson said that Harry evident-
ly had a great deal of money, or some
money.
Q. Now, then, all these facts in re-
gard to the insurance, and in regard to
the loan, in regard to the party, in regard
to the business, and in regard to the profits,
in regard to the actual fact that insurance
was being made, you then became ac-
quainted with 2 A. About all I became ac-
quainted with was right there; what I
heard he told Johnson.
Q. When was it you went hunting? A.
The last trip I left, I think, the 15th of
October.
Q. When did you return? A. From the
27th to the 29th.
Q: What time did you go back in the
office? A. I think it was about the 3d or
4th of November—it was not far from it—
possibly a day one way or the other.
Q. You speak of having trouble with
your father—what trouble had you with
your father?
Objected to as immaterial. Sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Counsel offers to show—
The Court—Put it in writing. I don’t
know that it is necessary to state the
difficulty between him and his father. It
is not necessary for you to state what the
difficulty was. If the court is wrong in
not permitting you to let him testify as
to what it was, your exception to it will
be good.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to state to the
reporter in the presence of the court, so
that your honor can see whether my offer
is right. I will state it privately to your
honor, and the court reporter can take it.
Mr. Nye-We will admit that the offer
may be put in any time hereafter.
Mr. Erwin–I want to put it in now, be-
cause I want his honor's ruling on the
subject matter, if the reporter will step
up there to the desk and take it.
The Court—It is not prºper cross-exam-
ination.
Mr. Erwin–I think you will be satisfied
º proper cross-examination if I make the
offer.
The reporter here stepped up to the
º and Mr. Erwin made the following
offer:
Mr. Erwin–I want to show that he, Adry,
was the clerk of his father, engaged in
the collection of his accounts, and that his
father became suspicious that he was tak-
ing money from him and that he called
Harry in to assist in looking over the ac-
counts, and that Harry improvised a new
system of bookkeeping which would show
if there were any shortages, and that
there had been, and his father discharged
Adry, and Adry became very infuriated,
and threatened to kill his father, and went
away and told his father that he had a
scheme to fix Harry.
The Court—You can go to the extent of
bringing out any threats that he made,
but any other difficulty I am not going to
permit you.
Mr. Erwin–I think I understand you, and
I will try to follow you. As I understand
it, then, you stated that you left the of:
fice because you had trouble with your
father? A. Because I had had trouble—
that was the main reason.
Q. And that Harry took your place in
assisting your father? A. He said he did
not. He said he would help him for
a While.
Q. Did Harry take your place for a
time? A. As far as I know he did.
Q. Now, at what time in the office, did
you state to your father that you would
kill Harry? A. I did not. Anybody that
says ºp lies. That is just it.
Q. Did you state to your father at that
same time, that you had a scheme that
would fix Harry. A. I did not.
Q. Nor nothing of that substance or ef-
fest? A. Nothing to that effect whatever.
Q. On any day when that controversy
of your discharge was talked over between
you and your father? A. No discharge
then about it.
Q. I mean your going out? A. No dis-
charge about it whatever. I was requested
to stay. I had been requested to stay for
a number of months.
Q. Was there anything said in substance
or effect between you and your father
on your part, to your father at or about
that time? A. I will tell you what there
was if you want to know it.
Q. I am asking you? A. Not in that
way, no, sir.
Q. Now, when next after you heard this
talk of Harry with Albert Johnson in your
presence, and your father in the next room
with the door open? A. My father was
not there all the While. He was there a,
portion of the time. He went out while we
were talking.
Q. When was it next after that time,
that you heard Harry say a word to you
or to anyone else about life insurance?
A. It was some time between that date
and the 20th or 22d of November.
Q. What time between that date and the
20th or 22d of November?
Mr. Nye—I submit he has located it.
The Court—If he can remember it he
may state it.
A. There are a number of times—he has
spoken of it different times as agents are
in the office all the while speaking about
life insurance.
I am asking you for little links of
your memory? A: I think I can give you
a good deal of my memory if you want it.
Q. I want that piece of it. A. I don’t



164
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
know the portion of time when he asked
me about it. I can tell you one time he
asked me about it, but there may have
been times between—you want to know the
portion of time he asked me about it?
You may think I want to know more
than you want me to know before I get
through. A. Not at all.
Q. We are not allowed to talk across the
board. What date did you give the time
of Albert Johnson? A: I did not give the
exact date. I said it was somewhere from
the 3d, as near as I could tell, to the 10th
of November. -
Q. Now, what time did you fix the next
date—had some talk between that time
which is between the 3d and 10th, and the
22d-can't you fix it any nearer than that?
A. I can fix about the 20th of the month,
he spoke of insurance about the 20th on
November, stating that he expected that
policy.
Q. Where was it? A. In the office.
Q. What time in the day? A. I don’t
know. I have not a particular remem-
brance of what time of day it was stated.
Q. Had you not become suspicious be-
fore this time that this insurance was not
on the square? A. I became suspicious as
soon as he stated that he was going into
the dressmaking business with a girl, and
was going to take life insurance, I became
suspicious.
Q. You became suspicious as soon as you
found he was going into the millinery busi-
ness and life insurance with a girl; and
how long after that was it that he told
you anything which indicated a criminal
intention on his part? A. Anything that
indicated a criminal intention? Well, it
was about the 21st or 22d when he stated,
as I have stated before here, about the life
insurance—“The fool has gone and got a
$5,000 policy instead of a $7,000, and, damn
her, he would kill her now if he did not
get a cent, anyhow; the infernal fool; any-
body would say that found her dead
that she ought to be killed.”
Q. Then the first intimation that you had
from Harry's lips to confirm your own
suspicions was his saying, “Damn her, I
will kill her now, anyhow, if I don’t get a
cent?” A. To confirm them 2
Q. Yes, that was the first thing to con-
firm your suspicions, which came from
Harry’s lips. A. Well, I considered that con-
versation was—there might have been other
things—but my mind assured me that he in-
tended–
Q. You had your mind made up that he
intended something wrong with the girl?
A. As I stated, from the time he said to
me, I was afraid something was wrong—he
offered me $2,000 to kill a woman.
Q. When was it he offered you $2,000 to
kill a girl? A. To kill a woman.
Q. When was that? A. The latter part
of August, or first portion of September
when he first made that offer in the office;
almost everything that was said was said
in the office.
Q. Go over that and let us see what that
was who was present? A. No one was
present when he stated that.
Q. What kind of a day was it? A. I
can’t remember the kind of a day.
Q. What is your memory, then, about it?
A. About his offering $2,000?
Q. Yes. A. My memory is that he came
In the office and sat down. He did talk a
great deal about as he stated, about getting
something for nothing—that is the expres–
sion—and wanted to know if I wanted to
make some good money. I told him I did,
and he made me this offer. He said, finally
coming round: “Would you kill a woman
for $2,000? I would drive her out somewhere
and you could very easily shoot her.” I
told him I would not, and I was not killing
people now, and when I got to killing them
it would be for more than $2,000.
Q. What else was said there beside that,
about killing and shooting the woman,
about who the woman was, and what it
was about? A. He said a woman—that is
all he said. He did not say a dressmaker,
or nothing of the kind. He said “a wo—
man.” He said “Would I kil a woman for
$2,000 if I should get her out where I could
shoot her in the buggy”
Q. Didn't you make any inquiry as to who
the woman was 2 A. I asked Harry at
different times.
Q. At that time did you ask him? A. No,
sir, I did not.
Q. Is that all that you said about it? A.
I don’t know that it is; I think it is about
all that was said at that time.
Q. How did he act? A. I don’t know that
I remember his actions particularly. I know
he has often told me I was too chicken
hearted about such things.
Q. You cannot recall that he said any-
thing else but what you have stated? A.
You don’t want me to tell things that I
remembered him to say that I cannot swear
to; things that I am very positive he said,
that I don’t care to say. I could tell a
great deal of conversation, and he could in-
form me that I could, too.
Q. I understand just exactly that that is
the condition of your mind? A. Yes.
Q. Now, then, when you found that he
was insuring a woman and going into the
dressmaking business, putting that in con-
nection with his having asked you in Au-
gust, three months before, whether you
would kill a woman for $2,000, you made up
your mind that this transaction of insur-
ance and going into business was a crimi-
nal transaction; would be a criminal trans-
action? A. Not at all. That is not what
made me make up my mind, what he said
before. That is not what made me make
up my mind.
Q. Now you locate that about the 20th.”
A. I think I said 21st or 22d, around there
somewhere.
Q. Before the 22d 2 A. I don’t necessarily
say before the 21st or 22d—that is about the
time.
Q. Have you stated all that was said on
that occasion? A. I have told all that I
can positively remember now. There may
be other things come to my memory along
if they do, I will tell them.
Q. When was the next time after the
20th, the 20th or 21st, that he ever said any-
thing to you about life insurance, or Miss
Ging? A. It was before the notes were
signed, after he spoke about the insurance
policy coming a from New York; he was
waiting for it. He spoke after that about
killing the girl anyhow.
Q. The 21st or 22d 2 A. Yes.
Q. When was the next conversation you
hadº A. About that day or next day.
Q. what day is that? A. If I had a cal-
endar I could show you the day—it is on







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
165
Wednesday, Thursday—I stated the 21st or
22d, if I remember right. I think Wednes-
day was the 21st. Saturday was the 24th.
He stated that he was going to have her
make to him an accident policy, and stated
afterwards that she got a policy and got it
for more than he expected—it was $5,000,
and therefore he would make a note for
more than $3,000; make more out of it, as
she is herself such a fool as to make such
a bull out of it, he would make notes for
near the full annount—that is what he said.
Q. Didn't he state to you he intended to
loan her $7,000, and that she had obtained
two policies, $5,000 each, and he would now
compel her, if he negotiated the loan, to
secure him for money that he had there-
tofore let her have 2 A. Not at that time.
Q. When was it first he told you that?
A. It was after this when he stated that
she had the $5,000 accident—it was before
the notes were signed, as he expressed it.
Then he said that he would take this—
about getting insured—he would take this
and make the notes for near the full
amount. And he says, “You know I have
loaned her money before.” I said, “I know
nothing about it,” which I did not, that
he ever loaned her a cent that I know of.
Q: What did you take his words, “You
know I have loaned money to her before”
to mean? A. After he said to me that he
was going to make more out of it, I na–
turally took his words to mean that he
wanted to make me believe that he loaned
her money before, and if anything came up
he wanted me to swear that it was so—
that is what I thought.
Q. You took it that he wanted you to
swear it was so. He didn't come down
and talk business and say, “Now, I want
you to swear I have loaned her money?”
A. No, he did not. Nothing whatever of
that kind. He said that he would make
more than it amounted to. He said, “Be-
sides, you know, I loaned her money be-
fore.” I said, “No.”
Q. When he looked up and said, “You
know I have loaned her money before,”
that he wanted you to know he had 2 A.
No, sir.
Q. Did you think so, whether it was
right or wrong, did you so think at the
time? A. I cannot say that I thought so.
Q. When did you think so? A. In re-
gard to thinking that he wanted me swear?
Q. Yes, sir. A. I did not say I thought
SO.
Q. Didn't you just say that you thought
so 2 A. I don’t think so.
Q. Do you think now? A. Well, if you
want to know what I think about it, the
only reason on earth—he told me, that if
anything came up I know a brother would
be good enough to say yes, certainly he
loaned the money awhile back.
Q. You thought so all the time? A. I
cannot say that I thought so.
Q. Wasn't that the reason you answered
him promptly—“No, I don't know nothing
about it?” A. The only reason was I
know no such thing.
The next thing you heard about it
was the day the notes were signed on
Saturday, the 24th 2 A. I had been told
the notes were signed on the 24th, on Sat-
urday.
Q. Go on and state in your own way
when he had next after this looked up at
you and said, “I have loaned her money.”
When was the next time that he spoke
to you about insurance? A. I don’t know
whether he spoke to me about it.
Q. He never did speak to you after that
about it? A. I don’t think he had, to say
about it, if anything, up to the time of the
murder. -
Q. Up until after the murder? A. That
is my remembrance now.
Q. Now, then, with these conversations
which you have given us, you became
possessed in your mind with the belief that
he intended to kill this woman? A. I be-
came, with other things connected with
that—not with that alone—that is the only
way I can answer your question—other
things connected with it—his ways of get-
ting rid of a woman, drowning her and
throwing her on a boulder; and tying her
on a line.
Q. When was that?
lier than that time.
Q. What time was it? A. The latter
part of August and the first part of Sep-
tember; the different propositions of shoot-
ing.
Q. Were those propositions all made at
the same time? A. Not necessarily so;
the latter part of August and the first por-
tion of September. -
Q. Let us go back to these propositions.
What was it he said at that time when her
asked you if you would kill a woman for
$2,000? A. He said it would be a very
easy thing; I would take her out in a bug-
gy driving and you could very easily shoot
her. I said to him how terrible it was to
think of such a thing. -
Q. Then after he had discussed that mat-
ter and you told him how terrible it was,
what next did he propose to do? A. He
proposed to throw suspicion off of himself,
that it might be well for him to get a
two or three seated rig and make an at-
tempt to hold him up, and naturally he
would try to shoot the robber, and he
would trust me to pick up the quarrel ac-
cidentally. That was the next proposi-
tion. Then he spoke of the drowning.
Q. What did you say? A. I refused ab-
solutely the whole thing.
Q. He made these propositions to you to
be done, wanted it done—he wanted you
to do this? A. Yes, sir, I suppose he
wanted me to. He said he did.
Q. Was this conversation before you
went hunting 2 A. This conversation was
before I went hunting.
Q. After giving you those two methods
of artistic killing, what was it he said
about drowning 2 A. He spoke about
drowning the girl and how easy it
would be. He proposed different ways—do
you want me to tell the different ways?
Q. I think you had better state the dif-
ferent ways if you know. A. He proposed
one way, going to Lake Minnetonka and
getting the girl—he said she would do any-
thing he wanted her to—to meet him
somewhere—take a boat and meet him—he
to get in the boat with somebody, and
when she came to meet him at a place, I
was to take her and drown her.
Q. What did you say to it? A. I don’t
know just what I said. I thought it was a
terrible thing and expressed it so.
Q. What did he answer? A. His answer
as usual was about the same thing; there
was nothing in it one way or the other.
A. That was ear-






166 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. After the proposition of these various
modes of drowning, what did he say about
a buggy fall and a boulder? A. He asked
me one day, he said: “What do you think
in case a person driving in a buggy
along a road, with a boulder along one side
of the buggy, and he would strike that
boulder, would the person fall towards the
boulder or over it?” I told him I did not
know; under some circumstances I should
judge he would strike the boulder, and it
might again throw it from him, throw you
on the opposite side.
Q. Did he propose to kill a woman that
way? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you say to that? A. I cannot
say—I understood it if anything more ter-
rible than the other way.
Q. You told him that? A. I cannot say
that I did tell him that.
Q. What did he say about having a horse
run away, and having her foot hitched to
something, and about dragging her? A. He
said also that was a plan of killing her,
the horse to run away, and she would get
entangled in the lines, and drag her, look
as though she was entangled, and it would
beat her brains out on the boulders, while
the horse was running.
Q. What did you say to that? A. I can-
not say what I said, but I always talked
with him and reasoned with him on it.
Q. What did you say? A. I don’t know.
I can’t tell you.
Q. What did you say about it being a
terrible thing? A. I should think it was
a terrible thing—I don’t know what I said.
It made a deep impression to think that my
brother proposed such a thing, and had
such a thing on his mind continually.
Q. What did he say about poisoning a
woman? A. He did not state to me about
poisoning any woman. He only stated af-
ter he came back from Crooked lake, quite
a while after he was back, about this same
time, that he knew all about poisons and
the different ways of killing people, and
committing suicide.
Q. What did he say about poisoning a
woman on this occasion? A: I don’t know
that he said anything about poisoning a
woman on this occasion.
Q. What did he say about a woman being
gored to death? A. I don’t know that I
ever heard him.
Q. Did he tell you at that time that it
would be a good thing to take a stick and
push it through a woman’s body and claim
that she was gored? A. I don’t think he
did. I will tell you what he did state that
if he had a big hound, big enough to tear
a woman to pieces, to set it at her.
Q. What did you say to that? A. I don’t
know what I said. I can’t tell what I said.
Q. He did not tell you any easy way to
kill a woman, like sending her up some
poisons—taking her out to dine? A. He
expressed about killing a woman by in-
jecting poison through the artery—it would
act quicker than in the stomach.
Q. He never mentioned any easy, com-
mon or ordinary way of killing a person?
A. I cannot say. The only thing, the ex-
pression was, that it was a very simple
thing to kill anybody. He said so most
times.
Q. He did not mention about an easy way
to kill a woman was to have her shot, and
claim it was an accident? A. Well, he
stated about shooting women, and how to
shoot them—not necessarily women at that
time, but shooting people when he came
back from the camp. He stated he knew
all about these things, the different ways
of shooting, and the way of bleeding; one
way was to sever an artery in here which
was a very easy death, very easy to bleed
them to death.
Q. Did you ever mention these various
plans to anybody until you were arrested?
A.. I am not sure. I don’t hardly think I
did. I might possibly have said something
to my wife about it, but if I did, I did not
connect Harry with it.
Q. Did it ever occur to you whether your
brother was crazy, or in his sound mind,
when he told you that? A. It occurred to
me this way—he talked so much on the
subject, and I went over before my last
trip and told him Harry would either go
crazy or do something terrible pretty soon
if he did not get work and quit his gam-
bling. He said he did not doubt it.
Q. You never took any measures what-
ever except to talk to your brother when
he talked to you? A. I tok no measures
whatever, except to try to induce him to
get it out of his mind, tried every way in
the world.
Q. That was by talking between you and
him? A. Talking and showing him the
danger, and trying to prevent him from
what I was afraid would come.
Q. What day was it you went and told
Stewart, made a communication to him in
regard to Harry? A. I made it on the
last day of November, the day after
Thanksgiving.
Q. Now, you were not present the day
that the notes were signed, but he asked
you, as I understand it that morning, to
stay there and be a witness to the notes?
A. He said, I believe, I will have you a.
witness for one of these notes. I said, I
believe you won’t have any such thing.
Q. At that time you were laboring under
the impression there was something wrong
about the transaction? A. I thought so—
he told me two or three days before he
would kill her anyway if he did not get a
cent.
Q. That was the reason you would not be
a witness? A. That is the main reason,
in all probability, I refused that time, as I
would do most anything if I thought it was
not right.
Q. After you went out, refusing to be a
witness, you met your father? A. No, sir,
I did not meet my father that day there—
the day before was Friday. Harry said
somebody wanted to rent the flat at 11
o'clock, and father came back and said
“What did you send me up for? Nobody
was there?” Harry smiled and said, “They
said they were coming up.”
Q. Your father asked Harry in your pres-
nece, “Why did you send me up to rent
the flat? There was no one there?” A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And Harry said: “They said they
would be there?” and held the paper up
in front of him and laughed? A. Not ex-
actly laughed; he rather smiled. I looked
at him.
Q. That is true, is it? A: I am under
oath. It is about as true as you will get
it, on my memory.
Q. Did he talk any more about killing
the girl after that day? A. Everything
was quiet in regard to the girl, I believe,




















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
167
until the time, which was the 30th day
of November, in the office about 10:30 or 11
in the morning, when he told me that
Blixt asked him if it was not about time
to sacrifice the dressmaker. I says, “Har-
ry, you are not going to kill the dress-
maker, are you?” He said, “Yes, I am.”
Q. Now, Harry broke in on the conversa-
tion and said what? A. He stated to me
that Blixt asked him if it was not about
time to make a sacrifice of that dress-
maker.
Q. How did he look? A. He looked just
about the same as he looked all the time;
looked natural.
Q: What did you say when he said to
you that she had got to be the victim
this time? A. I said, “You are not going
to kill the dressmaker?” He said, “Yes.”
I said that would not do, he must drop it,
this idea of killing. I told him he must
drop it; it was a terrible thing to do. He
said he would not do it, and said again
“She will have to be his victim;” and I
said, “You must stop or I will report you
and you will hang for it.” With that he
jumped up, looked at the transoms, pulled
himself down with his muscles and with
his body like that (illustrating) and made
his fingers go that way, and reached
around at my throat, and he drew up and
said, “Don’t you ever say that word hang
again; I will kill you if you do. ' That is
just what he said. And touched my hair;
and in the meantime spoke about these
pieces in the papers about the stranglers
out at Denver. I did not move for a while,
and finally I said—it had the effect to make
me feel that I did not do what the man
was doing, that I was dealing with a
lunatic.
Q. Did it frighten you? A. It naturally
frightened me to a certain extent. It
frightened me to the extent that anybody
is apt to be who feels that he is dealing
with a person out of his mind; and I was
satisfied he was, through extreme anger.
Q. He said, “Don’t ever say that word
again”—was he going to touch you at that
time? A. He touched me underneath here
and made his fingers go up and drew up
his lips and turned quite dark, and did not
know what he was doing then.
Q. How long did that clutching continue?
A. It is hard to tell—it was not over a
minute or two, although it seemed consid=
erably longer. I finally said, ‘Brother
Harry, be calm.” I realized I must talk
quietly to him.
Q. When did you realize? A. I have un-
derstood when you are dealing with a ner-
son out of his mind you ought not to
strike; if I had made a move, the chances
are he would have taken hold of me.
Q. You spoke calmly? A. Yes. I said,
“Brother Harry, keep quiet; don't strike
me; it would be the worst thing for you if
you injured me, for I am cinched’ ”—ex-
pressed it that way—although I was not
cinched at that time.
Q: What did you mean? A: I meant I
wanted him to understand that I told peo-
ple of his plan.
Q. You said it would be the worst thing
to happen to you, for I am cinched 2 A. To
that effect; I think those are the words.
Q. You meant by the words, “I am
cinched,” that you had therefore told
Some one about his plans? A. That is
about what I meant.
Q. If he was a maniac and crazy what
did you address him in that way for? A.
He was quieter, and I began to see that I
could get out of danger at that time. There
was no anger in my voice when I told him
I was cinched. I explained to him, spoke
to him, “Brother Harry, don’t do this;
don’t injure me; it would be the worst
thing you could do.”
Q. That is on your memory just as you
have given it? A. I would not say it is just
the words. I don’t know how straight you
want it.
Q. I mean as you sit down and think
about it, you remember that all that hap-
pened? A. I know it happened. I know
positively it happened. I got up and went
out, and took my coat, and he tapped
me on the shoulder. I went up to the
house and put my revolver in my pocket,
and came down to the office again and met
father.
Q. Is there any further circumstance
which you can give connected with that
scene that aids your memory in the inves-
tigation as to whether that is a dream or
a fact? A. It is entirely too real to be a
dream.
Q. What other circumstances connected
with it? A. I told you, I went out of the
office, went up to the house and put my
revolver in my pocket, and came down, and
he said he wanted to speak to me.
Q. That was done under the influence of
the act, wasn’t it? A. From the time
that he swore that he would kill me. He
threatened my life before that; swore he
would kill me.
Q. You felt that he was a maniac 2 A.
Not necessarily a maniac. I don’t know
how to express it.
Q. You spoke that way to him because
you thought that was the way to deal
with maniacs? A. I said that the boy at
that time through his extreme anger did
not realize what he was doing, and for the
time being he was really out of his mind–
no question in my mind about it.
Q. You then treated him as if he was
a maniac out of his mind? A. Not neces-
sarily, no, sir. I simply said it was best
for him to be very quiet, and not jump up.
Q. You said then, to your brother, to be
quiet? A. That is what I said: “Brother,
be calm.” That was the first words I said.
Q. Then he calmed down? A. Not right
away. It must have been a minute or two.
I told him it would be a bad thing to injure
Iºne.
Q. Then you rose up? A. Not until af-
ter that. As he said before he would kill
me before this time, I informed him it
would be a bad thing if I should disap-
pear, as I was cinched, as I expressed it.
Q. What did he reply to that? A. I
cannot swear that he replied anything to
it at that time, but about that time or be-
fore he wanted to know if I was fool
enough to write and put anything away
so in case anybody would find it he would
be incriminated. I said: “Never mind. I
am cinched.”
Q. Now, are you sure you said to him,
“You will hang?” A. The very words I
said, I says, “Harry, I will report you if
you do this—if you do this you will hang,
sure”—I used those words so as to press it
more forcibly on his mind.
Q. Is that all the consequences which


168 OI"FICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
you mentioned to him would attend this
act? A. At that time, yes, sir. When he
came back to the office later I told him
other things.
Q. You didn't tell him there he would be
haunted 2 A. Not at that time. I did an
hour later. I will explain the whole matter
if you want me to when I expressed that
to him.
Q. Now, after you had got up from him
and gone a little ways over towards the
fire place to get your coat and hat, did you
say anything to him after that, and be-
for you got out? A. When I got up Harry
stepped towards me real quick, and he said
“Adry, Adry, where are you going? I know
what I am doing now !” “Well,” I said, “I
will go out and leave you 15 or 20 minutes
and let you cool off.” And I took my hat
and coat and left, and returned in a short
time; I was not gone over 25 or 30 min-
utes.
Q. Now, you started down to report this
to the police? A. Yes, sir, but it was a
serious family secret, and I did not want
it to get out. I did not want to put it be-
fore the police; he had threatened me—he
had told me he had men to swear me into
the state's prison for life if ever I re-
vealed it, and it was better for me to be
in the sewer.
Q. Oh, you were afraid now of the real
gang of men? A. No, sir, I don’t believe
there is any other gang. - -
Q. That is the reason you did not tell
the police? A. No, sir, you can not scare
me with a milion men.
Q. You say this did not scare you on
your way to tell the police 2 A. Not at
all; the thing was such a serious family
secret that I did not want it to get out,
and furthermore, I did not think it possi-
ble that the boy would do such a thing.
Q. Well, if you thought that he had
cooled down, and that he was all right,
and it was such a serious family secret,
and he would do it, why did you go and
get your revolver? A. Because he made
threats to me. I didn’t know what he
would do to me if he was mad, and I
went to get my revolver. -
Q. Under a sense of protection? A. Yes,
sir, to a certain extent.
Q. You did not go up for your dinner?
A. No, sir. I started to tell the police
when I went down, and then I thought I
would not, and then I thought I would go
up to Elder Stewart's office, and then I
thought the matter over, and I thought I
would not let him have the secret.
Q. So you went home? A. Yes, sir, I
went in, it was 11 o'clock, and I put my re-
volver in my coat pocket, and I walked out
again. I had two revolvers and I took the
smaller one.
Q. What is the caliber of your small
one? A. Thirty-two.
Q. What is the caliber of your Smith &
Wesson. Thirty-eight. The same als
Harry's.
Q. Which one did you put in your pock-
et? A. The 32; and that is the only one I
ever carried, unless I go out shooting, or
something of that kind; and I carry that
on collection days; I usually do.
Q. What talk did you have on your re-
turn? A. (Witness repeated conversation
given in direct examination about the con-
dition of the business, visions, Harry’s
boast of having previously killed three peo-
ple, etc.)
Q. What effect did this have upon you?
A. What effect? Well, it was a surprise to
me—didn’t have no effect, but it was a
surprise to me that Harry had done these
things before. I did not think he was so
bad. And then he went on and then he
asked me to show my nerve.
Q. What did he say in regard to that?
A. (Witness repeated the conversation
about killing a cripple.)
Q. What effect did that have upon you,
your brother telling you a story of this
kind? A. Nothing more than a horror, to
think that these things dwelt on my broth-
er's mind and that he was determined to
do it.
Q. Now, don't this sometimes appear to
you to be a horrible dream? A. I wish it
did.
Q. Well, does it not seem to you like a
horrible dream? A. No. I cannot in
justice to myself allow you to make me say
it is a horrible dream, when I know as pos-
itive as I know anything on earth that
Harry told me these things I have stated
here. I would like to say it did appear to
me like a horrible dream but I cannot do
so. If I did say so, it would only appear
as a disgrace to me, if I said what you
wanted me to say.
Q. Well, does it appear to you as a
reality? A. Yes, sir, nothing more real in
my life.
Q. Supposing that you could be con-
vinced that your brother Harry was not in
that day that you speak of, would that
shake you any 2 A. I don't doubt but
what you can prove that he was not there
that day; but it would depend upon the
witnesses whom you proved it by.
Well, would it shake you any? A.
Well, as I say, it would depend a good
deal upon the witnesses, who they were.
Q. Well, supposing it is shown beyond a
possible doubt that he was not in that of.
fice at that time, would that shake you
any 2 A. I am not so bull headed as that:
but I know in my own mind Harry was
there at the time I mention.
Q. Well, supposing I can convince your
mind now that he was not in that office,
that day, how would that appear to you?
A.. I know that on the 30th day of Novem-
ber I went home and got my revolver and
I know that beyond a possible doubt.
Q. Well, would not that fact assist in
erasing it from your mind? A. It is a
pretty hard thing for you to erase it from
my mind; I would like to have you do so,
but you cannot do it.
Q. Well, if it is proven to you beyond a
possible doubt, would it shake your mind
at all? A. If a thing is proven it is proven.
You might prove it to your satisfaction,
but you could not prove it to my satisfact
tion.
Q. You know it is real? A. I know it is
real.
Q. And would you swear it is a reality?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, tell us what occurred, tell us
where you were sitting? A: I told you we
were sitting with our feet on the radiator.
Q. Whether the sun was shining or not?
A. If you can tell whether the sun was
shining two or three months back, you can
do better than anybody else that I ever
saw. (Laughter.)







OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
169
Q. Was the door open or closed between
your offices? A. The door was always clos-
ed when Harry was in there; Harry al-
ways took particular pains to shut the
door when he went in there, and to see
that the transom was closed.
Q. How was Harry dressed ? A. I cannot
say. I think about the way he has been
dressed this last fall, he wore a dark suit.
I can’t remember about that.
Q. Well, now, after this talk offering you
$200 if you would go out and kill some-
body? A. It was $100, not $200.
Q. And if you did not want to kill a
sound person, to kill a cripple, what did
you say to him upon that occasion ? A. I
don’t remember the words I used, but I
told him I would not do it; I refused a b-
solutely.
Q. Did you ever say anything to your
mother or father about this matter? A. No,
sir. I tried to intimate to father all I could
—tried to tell him what Harry would come
to, but he is a man that could not see
anything in a case of that kind. If it was
anything against me, probably he would
have seen it quicker than me telling him
about Harry. I have tried to tell him my
story without getting him mad and turn-
ing on me, but I could not.
Q. You think he would receive anything
of that kind against you quicker that he
would against your brother? A. Well, yes,
I think probably that is true.
Q. And you felt that to a certain extent?
A. To a certain extent; yes, sir, I did.
Q. Did you say anything to your wife
when you got home? A. I said nothing
about this occurrence. She asked me why
I came home and got my revolver on the
30th of November. She had evidently gone
into my bedroom and noticed that my re-
volver was gone. I made the excuse to her
that I wanted to go out and do some col-
lecting and wanted to take my revolver
along with me. I scarcely ever carried a
revolver except on the first of the month
when I am collecting; it was when I have
my grip and the money with me.
Q. Didn't you have a longing to tell your
father about your brother's condition? A.
I had a longing, yes, sir.
Q: Wouldn’t that make you have a de-
sire to tell him the next time you saw him
in the office, where you could have seen
him alone? A. Not necessarily. I had a
longing to tell him, but I feared these
things.
Q. On or about that time didn't you have
a longing to tell your mother and latner
about Harry's condition? A: No, sir. I did
not. I tried to tell father, but he is a very
peculiar man in that respect.
Q: Well, didn't you think the matter
ºver and, as you thought it over, a 1onging
to tell your father about it? A. I only had
a longing to tell him when I met him.
Q. About 5 o'clock you went down to
Elder Stewart's? A. Just about 5; yes, sir;
I went in and told him the whole story.
That was on the 30th of November.
Q. Now, when you went to Elder Stewº-
art's office you had in your mind a ºnnermory
ºf all these things you have related ºf
Harry said to you? A: I had in my
mind so strºng that it will never leave
there. It will be as strong 30 years from
º: * *. if not stronger than it
- W1
memory. never get away from my
Q. And you went in and emptied your
mind to Elder Stewart? A. Not entirely; I
did not tell him half what I wanted to tell
him.
Q. what did he say to you? A. He said,
“I know Harry to be a scoundrel, but I
don’t think Harry will do anything of this
kind; he will do most anything, but I don’t
believe he will murder the girl. Don't let
Harry’s sayings bother you, because he is
no fool and it is all nonsense; and then if
he wants to go and kill a thousand dress-
makers and servant girls, so far as you
are concerned, don’t let him bother you any
more.’’
Q. Now, you never had any talk with
Harry after that—this was on the 30th–
until the day of the homicide? A. He told
me the next day—we had a talk about him,
saying those notes were to be signed—oh,
no, the notes were before. The next day,
the 1st, we had a talk; Harry and I came
down town together—Harry wanted to know
if I was going down town and I told him
I was, and he said he would go along with
Ine.
Q. Now, tell us what he said at that
time? A. It is a pretty hard thing for any
man to tell what another man said away
back there. You can’t do it yourself, and
you ought not to expect me to do it.
Q. Well, can’t you tell us something? A.
Well, he spoke about this dressmaker,
and he wanted to know where I was going
to be the next Saturday night, and I had
better be careful where I was, that some-
thing was going to happen, and I said
“All right.”
Q. That was on the 30th, Saturday? A.
He told me on the 30th of November, that
he was going to kill her; he told me a
week before that about the insurance, that
he was going to kill her.
Q. The day you walked down town to-
gether, was that the 30th 2 A. I think it
Wals.
Q. And on the way down, you can’t lo-
cate the exact place of this talk? A. The
talk commenced as we were going out of
the Ozark, and we walked some distance
Q. How far did he walk? A. I cannot
tell you. As I stated before, I don’t re-
member. My impression is he walked down
a little ways with me and turned across.
I walked down until I got to the side
street that went up to the office, and I
turned off on Fourth Street.
Q. Where does your memory part with
Harry that morning? A. Well, it is pretty
hard to tell where it does part with him;
I know Harry was with me at the en-
trance, and I know he started down the
street with me, and I know he left me
somewhere down the street; but I don’t
know where he left me.
Q. Was it before you turned on Fourth
street or afterwards?
The Court—He has told you about five
times that he did not know where he left
him.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I am try-
ing to find out whether he left him before
he turned or not.
Q. I will ask you whether it was before
you turned to go up Fourth street or after?
A. Well, if you want to know what my
idea is I will tell you, my idea is that
Harry left me long before I got to Fourth
street, pretty well up town.




170 OFFICIAL STENOG RAE HIC REPORT
Q. What did he say to you? A. I told
you he wanted to know where I was go-
ing to be the next few evenings, as I had
better be careful where I was, because
something was liable to happen; or some-
thing would happen; I don’t know what
words he used exactly—and I simply said,
you hadn’t better do it, you had better
leave it alone, something like that.
Q. Now, did you say anything to your
father after Harry had told you that morn-
ing that something was going to happen
within the next two or three days? A.
No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you go back to Elder Stewart's
and tell him what Harry had told you;
that something was going to happen in
the next two or three days? A. Well, I
will tell you, this is a point I can make
more definite to you if you will allow
me to. I went to Elder Stewart's office
with the intention of telling him but some-
one was in his office, a woman, talking
to him, and I opened the door and was
going in but I saw that he was busy and
I left. That was Saturday, the first.
Q. Well, did you tell the elder on Satur-
day? A. No, sir, I didn't.
Q. Did you tell anybody? A. As I stat-
ed before, I told nobody; it was a secret
that I could not tell my father and I would
not tell anybody outside the family. My
wife didn’t even know it.
Q. During all this time did you have
any affection for your brother? A: I had
affection for him, yes, as has been proved
in a good many Ways.
Q. Well, why didn’t you tell somebody?
A. Well, if I am allowed to answer that
question by asking you a question, if the
court will allow me, whether, if you had
a brother of that kind how long you
would wait before you would tell a secret
of that kind, so serious a family secret?
Q. Well, if you ask me the question and
the court allows me to I will answer it.
The Court—You may answer it.
Q. I don’t think there is a man on earth
who has a particle of brotherly affection
in his bosom who would not have prevent-
ed his brother from doing such a thing—
The Court—That is not the question he
asked you.
Q. Unless such brother was insane? A:
I can prove everything I have said. If I
had told my father it would have made no
difference. -
Q. If your father was careless of it
your responsibility was double to your
brother, was it not, to tell other people?
A. Well, I suppose so.
Q. Then, why didn't you put forth some
effort to stop your brother in this act? A.
I did—I did put forth the best effort I
could, feeling almost positive it would not
occur.
Q. Well, when did you next talk with
Harry after that mornig walk? A. I
talked with Harry that night, I don’t
think it was quite 6 o'clock, Saturday
night, the 1st of December.
What time was that? A. About 6
o'clock.
Q. In what condition was he when he
came to your flat? A. About as usual. I
cannot say that he showed that he was in
much of a hurry—
Q. How was he dressed? A. Well, he
had on his clothes, his whole suit; I don't
think he had on his overcoat.
Q. How long did you talk with im in
your flat? A. He was not in my flat.
Q. Well, how long was he at the door
of your flat? A. Well, I don't know, but
I think Harry spent two minutes all to-
gether; he just stood there long enough to
tell me that something was liable to hap-
pen, and I told him I wouldn’t do it.
Q. What did you do after he told you
that? A. I don't know. I went into my
flat, and I remained there at home.
Q. Did you shut the door when you went
in? A. I usually shut the door when I
went in—the door shuts itself, it is one of
those self-latching doors.
Q. Were you not in the habit of keeping
your door shut and barricaded? A. A per-
tion of the time I have kept my doors shut
and barricaded.
Q. For fear of Harry? A. For fear of
the threats that he has made that he
would kill me.
Q. And fear of your father? A. No, sir,
except one time—
Q. Well, about how many times have
you kept it barricaded for fear of Harry.
A. Oh, probably 15 or 20 times.
Q. During what months? A. Well, I have
barricaded my door—it has not been a reg-
ular thing, sometimes it would be differ-
ent; in the month of November a good
many times, and a great many times in
September, after he threatened to kill cer-
tain parties—he threatened to kill me. I
thought I knew too much about his plans
after he threatened me what he would do,
and I thought it was better to take a lit-
tle precaution. -
Q. Now, then, did you shut your door
on this Monday night after the talk with
him? A. Certainly I did; I didn’t leave it
Open.
Q. Then you don’t know where he went?
A. He went out of the Thirteenth street
entrance; he had gone out before I went
in my door.
Mr. Nye—I would like, if the court
please, to have the jury examine this
buggy. Mr. Goosman is desirous of taking
his buggy out of the court room, and I
would like to have the jury examine it
and get through with it. It is now about
half past 4 and by the time we get through
examining the buggy it will be about time
to adjourn.
The Court—Very well. The crowd will
now pass out slowly and everybody that
is within the railing here will pass out
and the sheriff will clear away the chairs
around the buggy so that the jury may
have an opportunity to examine the buggy.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I would
like to have some of the jurors get into
the buggy and see what the position would
be when they lean forward, and see what
the results would be if the feet were moved
out of the box of the buggy.
The Court—Well, we don’t want any ex-
perimenting here now.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please we do not
desire to have any experimenting done,
but we merely want the jury to ascertain
the position a person would be placed in
in looking out of the buggy, as described
by the witnesses.
The Court—Well, the jury will come
around this way and the other people will
get out of the way.
(The space around the buggy was cleared










OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
and the jury came around and began their
examination of the same.)
A Juror–Are we to look at this in our
own way?
The Court—Yes, you can look at it in
your own way and then we will hear the
testimony.
(The jury here examined the buggy.)
The Court–Now, gentlemen, you will
take seats over there and hear the testi-
mony of Mr. Goosman, in connection with
your examination of the buggy.
George W. Goosman.
recalled and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. I believe you have identified this bug-
gy, Mr. Goosman, as the buggy Miss Ging
rode out in on the night of the 3d of De-
cember? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Describe the condition of the buggy
as it was when you examined it next morn-
ing before it was washed? A. This lazy-
back here was entirely saturated with
blood clean down, and about here (refer-
ring to the inside of the back curtain)
were two spots, two white spots that look-
ed like brains, and some was on the back
of the curtain here, and the most of the
blood had run down in here. (Indicating
under the cushions and down to the bot-
tom of the seat.) But this cushion here
was saturated to about down in here, and
the blood ran down here and ran into the
bottom of the buggy. There was a weight
in the bottom of the buggy and the strap of
the weight was all blood. There was lots
of blood in the bottom of the buggy and
back on the back curtain here there was a
spot the form of a head, with brains or
something on it; it was in the shape of a
head. You can see there is some of it there
yet, you never could wash it out. About
here (referring to the bow on the left hand
side, the outer bow) there looked like a
hand had been held over it, but by close
examination you could not tell whether
her head struck there or the robe; it looked
as though hair had been drawn across
it. And there was some blood along here,
it had dropped down here. And the robe I
never saw from that day to this. Upon a
close examination I think you can find
where the blood ran down here. (The wit-
ness here took up the cushion and opened
the top of the seat.) I should never have
washed the buggy if I had been told to
save it; kept it for two days and no one
ever said anything to me about it, so I
washed it.
Mr. Smith–Mr. Nye,
been Washed 2
Mr. Nye-How should I know?
Mr. Smith—Well, you have had it.
Mr. Nye-No, sir, I have not had it; it
has been in the morgue all the time.
(The jury here examined the robe.)
Q. Did you notice anything that appeared
to be spatters of blood about the top of
the buggy or anywhere? A. No, sir, I did
not; simply there were some on the side
of the curtain and they are there yet—there
are some here yet. (Indicating.)
Mr. Erwin– I ask that some of the jurors
be allowed to get into the buggy to see
how far they would have to lean forward
to look out, some of the men about the
size of Miss Ging, about 5 feet 7.
(At this time two jurors got into the
buggy, one of them leaning forward to as-
certain the position of the murdered wom-
an at the time she was shot, as described
by Claus Blixt in his testimony.)
has the robe ever
-
- -
171
Mr. Erwin–And if there is no objection
one of the jurors can sit perfectly limp and
the other can lift out his feet in the man-
ner described by Mr. Blixt in his testimony.
Mr. Nye-I have no objection, but I can-
not conceive how a live person can get in
the position of a dead person.
Mr. Erwin–I shall claim that a live
person, upon their feet being lifted out in
the manner described by Mr. Blixt in his
testimony, that the weight of the body will
tip the body back into the buggy box and
not on the outside.
The Court—Well, we cannot tell without
a dead body.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if your honor please,
let one of the jurors try. No need of his
falling, but he can see which way the body
will fall.
(The jurors in the buggy experimented in
the manner indicated by Mr. Erwin.)
(Court here took a recess until 10 o’clock
a. m., Feb. 12, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 12
A dry Hayward
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Er-
Wilm.
Q. You testified that Harry said to you
in jail on the 7th that they are pressing
Blixt pretty close. I want to call your at-
tention as to what was in the papers about
Blixt on that day. A. I don’t know whether
that day or not. They were reading in the
papers about Blixt at that time, and I be-
lieve it is so unless I am mistaken. He
had a number of papers.
Q. Don't you know there was nothing in
the papers about Blixt until the 8th 2 A.
No, sir, I know of no such thing.
Q. On the 7th day of October, '94, weren't
you out of your mind? A. There is a
question—I am unable to say myself—I
might have been.
Q. Do you now recollect that you swore
and threatened to kill your father and
mother, and abused and cursed them, and
went to your room and got a revolver? A.
Was the 7th day of October Sunday? Ex-
plain that and I will tell you a story.
Q. I don’t know—yes, your mother says
it was. A. On Sunday. Mr. Nye, am I to
tell the whole thing in connection with
this?
Mr. Nye-Yes, sir. -
A. On the 7th day of October my mother
came to my flat and said to me there had
been some trouble with father about money
affairs. Harry had been talking to her es-
pecially about trouble. She asked me as
a favor to her, before my wife, to come
down and talk with him, as she always
knows me to be honest. I went there ac-
cordingly, and father came in, and Harry
laid down on the lounge; Harry spread
himself out on the lounge, and mother
went on talking, and father said nothing;
and I said there was nothing wrong, that
everything was right in the cash book, and
that the money was rolled up all right the
night before. You can smile—you know it. I
explained matters to her; and finally Harry
said, “Why don’t you give him the money;
you have it.” I said it was not so; I did
not have the money, and did not know
anything about it, and mother interfered
and told Harry to be quiet, and finally
father joined in; and Harry kept stating,





172
OFFICIAL STIGNOGRAPHIC REPORT
“Why don’t you give him the money? You
know that you have the money.” I said,
‘‘I have not.” I said I hadn’t enough money
to pay out on the insurance, and if you can
wait, and if you can prove it, I am willing
to pay you. I told Harry positively that
I thought he stole the money. I did not
say that he did it, but I threw it at him,
and told him. I thought so. I had quite a
row with my mother—the first in my life.
I am perfectly willing to state the whole
thing. I can go through the main points.
I told Harry not to interfere, that I knew
too much about him—“Too much about you;
dry up”–and Harry said, “You dry up and
get out of this flat or I will get a knife and
rip you.” He walked toward the door. I
said, “You won’t rip me. Whenever my
folks get ready and tell me to go I will go.”
I said to my mother, “This is very hard,
mother. Do you think your sons are such
thieves, and I am so bad; why did you raise
such a litter of pups?” I said that. I left
the block and werft up stairs. I was in Flat
B, third floor, and I said, “I am going to
get my revolver and I am going to stay
here in my flat. I will not shoot him in
any way, but if he makes a dive at me
with a knife, I will blow his brains out.”
And I stayed in the flat until I went to see
Elder Stewart; and Harry said, “You take
your goods this day and move out of the
flat.” Harry said, “Move right out, don’t
wait. Don't shake your head.” He said,
“Don’t move out of this flat at once.”
Harry came to the door and my wife said,
“Don’t come in here, Harry;” and finally
went down stairs. That is the story, and
the family row—the first row I ever had
with mother in my life. If it had not been
for that she would have known the whole
story, and this would have been prevented.
That is all I have to say on that subject.
Q. You have had a good deal of feel-
ing against Harry Hayward? A. No feeling
whatever, except that I feel that Harry
Hayward is trying his best to defend him-
self. I don’t blame him, but I don’t think
my family ought to suffer. I have to de-
fend myself to a certain extent. That is
the only reason.
Q. Were you down in the office in the
Oneida block on the 8th of October? A. I
don’t know; I think I was in regard to the
receipt I held in my pocket.
Was your father there? A. I don’t
know. My remembrance is he was. I
think my father was there.
Q. Were you ont of your mind on that
day when you and your father were to-
gether? A, I could not tell you.
Objected to as improper. Sustained.
Q. Did you on that day say to your
father, “I am going to have money some-
how; going to rob street cars, and as for
Harry, I have got a scheme I know how to
fix him—you see if I don’t fix him?” A. I
did not. There is not a word of truth in re-
gard to it. I said something, but it was
not that way. I will state what it was if
you want it. I would rather state what it
was.
Q. Didn't you use any words to that
substance or effect? “I am going to have
money somehow; I am going to rob Street
cars or hold up trains. As for Harry, I
have got a scheme. I know a scheme to
fix him; you see if I don’t fix him.” A.
Your question as a whole I cannot an-
swer, unless I explain something before,
There is nothing to it.
Q. Make your own explanations. I want
the question answered, whether you said
anything of that substance or effect? A. I.
did not.
Q. Where were you the latter part of
August, 1894? A: I was in the city at
times. I might possibly be as far as St.
Paul, or drive somewhere around the city.
Q. In a conversation with your mother
at the Ozark in the latter part of August,
do you recollect that you told your mother
that your father was in the habit of go-
ing to a certain house of ill fame, and
told her what the people said of him? A.
I did not.
Q. Did you state that you were certain
of it, and that you grew violent when your
statements were not believed by your
mother?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial, and not cross-examination.
Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I want to show that he has
no memory of these things. Then I will
show that it took place. From that I will
prove his insanity.
The Court—You cannot show it now. It
is not proper cross-examination. It is part
of your case.
The Witness—I can answer the question
if you want it.
Mr. Erwin–I will make the offer to the
reporter.
The Court—The offer is made.
Mr. Erwin–There are others of the same
kind I want to put on the record. I will -
offer them the same way I did before, your
honor, yesterday, privately.
The Court–Anything that pertains to any
difficulty between Harry and the witness,
or any fact connected with this case, ma-
terial to the issue that has been called out
by the prosecution, the court will allow you
to examine.
Mr. Erwin–None of these have been
called out because the state has been pro-
ceeding on the proposition that this man
is entirely sane. I do not claim that this
man is generally insane. .
The Court—You had better put
questions.
Mr. Erwin–Did you not frequently, dur-
ing the month of August, September, and
October, threaten to your father to rob
street cars whenever you wanted money,
whenever you were out of money?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant,
inmaterial and not cross-examination.
Sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception, and also exception
noted to the prior offer.
Q. During the summer of 1894 did you not
think that your father was having you
watched, and frequently spoke to your
father of men watching you and accuse
your parents for being responsible for it?
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Sustained.
Same exception.
Q. In the month of August did you not
speak several times to your father that
there were some men watching you and
looking in the windows for you, and on one
occasion did you not say that you had a
revolver and that the next person who
tried it would not get off so well.
Objected to on the same ground.
your



















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
173
same ruling. Exception.
Q. Did you not, after Sept. 27, while you
were living at the Ozark, accuse your
parents of attempting to get in your room?
Objected to. Sustained. Exception.
A. I did not. -
Q. In September you went off on a hunt-
ing trip, did you not? A. I did.
Q. Did you not refrain from telling any-
one where you were going, and on your re-
turn did you not say to your father that
you met a traveling man whom you did not
know, who accosted you and said: “Young
man, you have had trouble, but your trou-
bles are not over,” and tell your father you
were so impressed that you came back to
Minneapolis and had your life insured?
Same objection, immaterial.
The Court–Sustained on the ground that
it is not proper cross-examination.
Defendant excepts.
Q. Did you not say on your return that
this man was constantly following you
about: that you were careful all the time
not to let the man to get in position to get
any advantage of you, and did you not ex-
press that no one else had noticed it,
and said that the man looked like a Min-
neapolis bum, and some one was trying to
have you done up?
Same objection. Sustained. Exception.
Q. Did you go on a trip to California?
A. About six years ago. I did not go to
California direct, though.
Q. Before your California trip on many
occasions did you constantly threaten to
shoot your father whenever you and he
had any trouble?
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Sustained. Exception.
Q. Did you at or about that time, before
you went to California, and at the time
that you made these threats, exhibit fear,
and say that your father intended to do
you some harm, and were afraid, acted
afraid to let your father come near you?
Same objection. Sustained. Exception.
Q. Now, Mr. Adry, have you not always
been very jealous of Harry? A. I never
have been really jealous of him.
Q. Haven't you often made threats of
violence to him? A. Never in my life.
. To your father and mother? A.
Never in my life.
Have you made threats of violence
to Harry in the presence of your father
and mother? A. I never made any threats
to Harry with possibly one exception, and
that was not violence to his body. It was
what occurred in the office earlier about
the Stillwater deal, and he said he could
bring sworn witnesses and get me in Still-
water, by paying them $5, and he swore
and said, “I could put you there if I want-
ed to. I have the money; my father's
money and my money will drive you into
Stillwater any day I want to.” I said, I
will go and see if I have a friend to assist
me.
Q. When was that? A. The first part
of October. I went and saw Elder Stewart
and told him, and told it to father, and my
father listened to it, and he said, “I hope
you won’t be fool enough to tell this to
Stewart,” and he said he would see that I
had a fair deal, but not in offering money
to assist me. That is the whole truth.
Now, you seem to have been pretty
friendly with Stewart? A. I have been
friendly with him a great many years, my
whole life time; and father and Harry have
been friendly with him.
Q. You would go to Stewart whenever
you had trouble with your father and
mother? A. No, sir.
Q. Or with your brother? A. Only a
few times, once or twice. Father is not
reasonable. I can prove he is not. He
would not listen to me. If he had this
would never have happened.
Q. You go to Stewart when you get
talking to your father or mother or Harry?
A.. I have talked to mother always up to
the time of the row, always. She will tell
you the same thing.
Q. Where did you get so intimate with
Stewart? A. Had charge of his business
for about 15 or 20 years, and naturally
ought to know something about it, having
been in the office; has been a family friend
and adviser ever since he has been in
Minnesota practically.
Q. When did your intimacy with Stewart
begin? A: I don't know what you call in-
timacy; he has been a friend always.
Q. What was the cause of this intimacy?
A. Because he has always treated me
well; always been a friend; always said he
would be a friend to the family, and he
advised me and all of us to be friendly to-
gether.
Q. That is the only reason that you have
for any extraordinary friendship for Stew-
art? A. Well, there may be other real-
sons. There is one special reason I can
tell–probably more than one, if you want
it. About robbing street cars, etc., if Mr.
Nye wants me to speak I will tell you what
my father said to me, what made me say
it, a certain portion of it.
Q. Is Mr. Stewart your father's friend?
A. Well, I suppose he is. Father had some
trouble with him a while back. Or he
had some trouble with my father, but father
has been going to him right along in his
business just the same. He does not con-
duct Stewart's business the last three or
four months; making out papers and such
things; Stewart has a great deal to do.
Q. Isn’t it true that before you went to
Stewart, Stewart and your father had some
little disagreement or some misunderstand-
ing in business affairs? A. It is true, I
think.
Q. I don't care about going into that, A.
Before the last time I went to Stewart
about Harry, about this murder, had had
trouble before that time.
Q. Had trouble—you knew that Stewart
and your father had a misunderstanding?
A. Yes, I knew it.
Q. Now, wasn’t that the reason that you
told Stewart to go and tell this stuff toº
A. No, sir; the only reason—no stuff about
it.
Q. I mean this affair? A. Well, I told
Stewart because it was a family secret.
Q. That is what I want—you went to
Stewart because it was a family secret?
A. I did not want to put it out in public.
Q. You knew Stewart was not pleasant
with your father? A. Stewart was reason-
ably pleasant with my father.
Q. He had a misunderstanding with your
father? A. He did have.
Q: Why did you take the family secret
to an enemy? A. He was not an enemy,
even if he had a misunderstanding.



174 | OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. To one who had the attitude of an
enemy? A. He was not. Father went to
him afterwards, and he advised with him
about things, as I can prove.
Q. Were you not stirring in between your
father and Stewart, or between your father
and Harry to make trouble? A. No, sir,
I was not; I defended father with Stewart.
Q. At the time you had a discussion
with your father about your accounts,
as you testified to a while ago, did you not
several times threaten to have your father
arrested 2
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Objection sustained. Exception.
Q. Did you not at those times go out of
the office apparently for the purpose of get-
ting an officer, and return saying that you
could not find your attorney in 2
Same objection. Same exception.
Q. Didn't you fail to disclose and refuse
to disclose what you were going to have
him arrested for 2
Same objection. Same exception.
Mr. Erwin–The same exception all the
way through to the ruling of the court.
Q. Do you recollect on one occasion some
little time ago that you and Harry were
together in the Oneida Block, when a bank
or express messenger passed with a sack
of money? A. I do not recollect anything
about it.
Q. During the first part of October you
and Harry were looking out the office win-
dow into the court and postoffice building,
and saw a messenger carrying money from
the postoffice to the Security Bank? A. I
do not.
Q. You don’t remember that? A: I was
carrying money myself then, my brother's
money. -
Q. Did Harry make to you, the time those
things were seen by you, did he make some
playful remark about going out to hold
them up, and you seemed so impressed with
the idea that it was Harry's intention to do
it? A. I stated I did not know anything
about it, did not hear it; so, therefore, I
made no such remark to him.
Q. Didn’t you at that time form the idea
from a remark that Harry was going out
to hold them up 2 A. I did not hear him
make any such remark, so I could not form
any idea of it.
Q. You deny the whole transaction? A. I
do.
Q. I will ask the witness if about four or
five years ago he and Dr. Hayward, his
brother, were not sitting one evening in
the window, the curtain being up—Dr. Hay-
ward was sitting in the parlor, and that you
came in, you came in with the appearance
of fright, and said, “I should think that
you would be afraid to sit in front of that
window,” and the doctor asked you why,
and you said, “Why, somebody might come
up and shoot you through the glass.” The
doctor reassured you and said that there
was no danger.
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Sustained. Exception.
Q. When you were on the Pacific coast
did you write two or three letters to differ-
ent members of the family telling how men
were captured and pressed into marine ser
vice there, and that you had great fear it
would happen to you? A: I did; I stated
that I would rather write those letters in
order to get back home. He kept the money
from me—the plan was to get back home.
Q. What letters did you write?
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Sustained.
Q. Did you not at that time write to
your father and say that you were in dan-
ger of men dropping stones off of the house
on your head?
The same objection. Sustained. Excep-
tion.
Did you not in your letter say that
there was a plot to kill you, and accuse
the members of your family of being im-
plicated in the plot; that they had formed
a conspiracy to make way with you, and
that your life was in danger?
Same objection. Sustained. Exception.
Q. 1)id you not while you were in Cali-
fornia write several letters to your brother,
Dr. Hayward, to the effect that Harry and
your father were in league against you,
and you had allied yourself with Dlder
Stewart to prevent Harry from getting an
undue influence over your father? A. No,
sir, I did not.
Q. Did you not write from here about
six months ago to Dr. Hayward, who was
then in the West, that Harry and your
father were in league against you, and
that you had allied yourself with Elder
Stewart to prevent Harry from getting an
undue influence over your father?
Same objection. Same exception.
The Court—If you want to produce the
letters and have them identified, you can go
to that extent.
Mr. Erwin–I will ask you whether you
have not been for years in a morbid con-
dition of jealousy and distrust of Harry,
because you thought Harry had the confi-
dence of your father more than you had,
and was more favored by your father than
you? A. Not at all.
Q. On the night of the murder did you
wear the shoes that you have on your feet?
A. I think I did. I had two pairs of tan
shoes in the trunk in the basement. I don’t
know whether anybody wore those; they
were more pointed than these.
Mr. Erwin–I offer the shoes in evidence.
I want the jury to take notice of the toes
of the shoes.
Q. Now, I will ask you whether you ever
entered into any conspiracy with Błixt to
kill Miss Ging? A. I never did; I never
had one word with Blixt about killing and
never had hardly anything to say to Blixt.
—did not scarcely know the man.
Q. Did you go down with Mr. Blixt on
the Kenwood boulevard, some place on
Kenwood boulevard, and see him get in
the buggy in the case? A. I did not.
Q. Do you know a man named Frank,
who is a friend of yours and Blixt? A.
Frank what?
Q. Frank is all the name—do you know
him 2 A. I don’t know any man, to my
knowledge, that I and Blixt are acquainted
with–no difference what his name is, any
more than he is somebody around the block
that knows him by sight—not personally
acquainted with Blixt—I do not.
Q. Did you take from your father's safe
a package of $1 bills, a large number of $1
bills in the month of November or De-
cember? A. I had some $1 bills in there
that Harry gave me in the money drawer,
if that is what you refer to: -




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
175
Q. You know where your father's private
iron box is in the safe? A: I ought to
know—I have run the business.
Q. You had keys? A. No, sir, I did not;
father has always had the key. I never
had the key to it in my life.
Q. You could not get in the iron box? A.
I might break it open, I suppose, if I had
the proper tools and the experience. I
never was in the box in my life.
Q. Never left it open? A. Not to me.
There was some other party that he allow-
ed in there, but not to me.
Q. Who is the other party? A. My
brother right there; the same way that he
gave him all the pass keys of the block.
Q. You had Elder Stewart? A. I did not
have Elder Stewart, as Harry went to
Elder Stewart.
Q. Don't exhibit quite so much spirit on
this question. What I want to get at is
whether you took from your father's safe
a package containing 40 or 50 $1 bills and
appropriated them to your own use in the
last of November or the first of December?
I don’t say this is larceny, but you took
them and used them—I don’t put it on the
ground that you stole them?
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination. -
Mr. Erwin–I want to account for his
possession of $1 bills.
Objection overruled.
Q. Did you take from yaur father's safe
in the iron box 50 $1 bills? A. The iron
box you are speaking of 2
Q. Yes, sir? A. I did not.
Q. Did you take from your father's safe
any place, not in the iron box, 50 $1 bills?
A. No, sir, it was put in my pocket, and
Harry gave them to me, and I put them in
the vault.
Q. I understand your testimony on that.
A. I did not know that you did.
Q. Did you and Mr. Blixt go out to Lake
Calhoun, at a point on Lake Calhoun, one
week before the murder, together? A. I
never went nowhere with Blixt; not even
a block with him on the street.
Q. Did you and him pick out a spot on
that lake where Miss Ging was to be mur-
dered? A. I did not.
Q. Did you advise Blixt on the day of
the murder to take the iron with him? A.
I did not. Harry spoke about the iron.
Q. Did you say to Blixt on the night of
the murder, “Be sure to take the iron
with you; be sure to go to the same spot
we were; if you have any trouble Frank
will be there and help you?” A. I did not
see Blixt.
Q. Did you say anything of that kind?
A. I did not see him.
Q. Did you say any words of that sub-
stance or effect? A. I did not.
Q: Why have you kept yourself in jail
since you were arrested?
Objected to as incompetent,
and not cross-examination.
Sustained. Exception.
Mr. Erwin–Counsel offers to prove by
witness that he has not been under any ar-
rest, but is there voluntarily.
The Court—It is improper cross-examina-
tion.
Q. I will ask you whether you have not
been at liberty, whether you have been at
liberty to be in the jail or be out of jail,
as you desire?
immaterial
Objected to as immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Sustained. Exception.
Q. I will ask you whether the county at-
torney or the authorities, some of them,
have not promised to protect you if you
will be a witness for the state? A. I have
never received any promise whatever.
Elder Stewart told me it was best for me
to tell the truth as he had told it; and so
I told it and took my chances. I don’t
know yet that I am protected.
Q. Did you have a talk with your mother
in the Ramsey county jail upon this subject
matter? A. Which subject matter?
Q. The subject matter of your being pro-
tected? A. I never said that I was pro-
tected.
Q. I asked you whether you had a talk
with your mother in the Ramsey county
jail upon the subject of your being protect-
ed by the authorities? A. I have never said
any such thing to anybody, as I said be-
fore.
Q. Did you not on the occasion of your
mother’s visit to you at the Ramsey coun-
ty jail say to her that the authorities had
promised to protect you through this mur-
der case? A. I did not; I did not need pro-
tection. I never said any such a thing.
Q. You said nothing of that substance or
effect? A. Nothing about them protecting
me, no, sir.
Q. Did your mother suggest to you that
you ought to have a lawyer? A. Yes, she
did.
Q. Did you not suggest to her, did you
not say to her in answer to that, that the
authorities had promised to protect you
through this murder case? A. I did not;
I told her I was following Elder Stewart's
advice. That is what I told her.
Q. You did not say anything of like sub-
stance or effect? That the authorities or
any of them had promised to protect you
through this murder case? A. No, sir, I
did not. I was never promised it.
Q. Now, have you ever asked for a law-
yer since you made your statement? A.
Elder Stewart is my lawyer, practically;
I consider him so, my attorney or advisor.
Q. You never asked for any other law-
yer? A. I have not; I do not want any.
Q. Where have you been confined since
you were arrested?
Objected to immaterial and not cross-
examination.
Mr. Nye-We don’t claim that he has
been held under any legal restraint or
authority.
Mr. Erwin–That is just what I am try-
ing to find out.
Mr. Nye-That he voluntarily consented
to be with our deputies so we would know
where he was, and that is all there is to it.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, I
have here a gunsmith whom I desire to use
as a witness, and I would like to have him
step forward and examine the cartridges
taken out of the revolver already in evi-
dence in the presence of the county at-
torney, or some of the county officers. We
won’t delay the trial, your honor.
(At this time the cartridges were exam-
ined by a gunsmith, who made notes of
their dimensions, etc.)
Q. Where were you taken to when you
were taken from there where you and
Harry were confined in the tier of cells? A.





176 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
I was taken then directly to another room
in the jail. The room that Blixt occupies
now, or did.
Q: Who did you see there? A. Father
and mother. I remained there talking with
them for about five minutes, and after that
I remained there, I should judge, 15 or 20
minutes, until the hack came for me; I
was by myself for the exception of five
minutes when they were there.
Q. Well, were you removed from that
place? A. Yes, sir, in a hack.
Q. To what point? A. To Hennepin and
Fourth street.
Q. What was done there? A. We re-
mained in front of the Kasota. Block
where Elder Stewart's office was.
Q. How long did you remain at Elder
Stewart's office? A. Well, we left there-
we did not go in there. I was taken back
to the Guaranty Loan Building, and re-
mained there from a half to three-quarters
of an hour, and then we took a circle and
came around to the side entrance of the
Kasota. Block, and then went up to Elder
Stewart's office.
Q. Will you now explain to me why it is,
when you are talking about things you have
a perfect memory about, you are easy
and natural, and your voice is natural,
and when you speak about this matter
that Harry told you about, you pause and
think; can you explain that? A. Yes,
sir.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant, and immaterial, and embarrassing
to the witness.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Where were you taken then? A: I
was taken to Elder Stewart's office, where
I remained for a while.
Q. Then where you were taken from
Elder Stewart's office? A. Well, when We
left there, between 12 and 1, I was taken
to the Ramsey county jail, in St. Paul.
Q. Now, at Elder Stewart's office, who
was present—who was present in Elder
Stewart's office the second time when you
were taken in there? A. Well, Sheriff Ege
was present.
Mr. Nye-He was not there but once.
The Witness—No, I did not enter his of:
fice the first time.
Q. Well, I mean when you did enter it?
A. Sheriff Ege and the two deputies, and
Mr. Hall and Mr. Nye, came in a little
later on, about five minutes after that.
Q. Was it there in that office that you
first made a statement to the officers of
matters similar to what you now testify?
A.. I didn’t make any statement to the of:
ficers at all.
Q. In the officers' presence? A. Not in
the officers' presence.
Mr. Nye-Well, tell him in whose pres-
ence you did make it.
The Witness—I didn’t know what he
wanted. I don’t want to get mixed up.
Q. Did you make it in the presence of
the county attorney? A. In the presence
of the county attorney and Elder Stewart.
Mr. Nye-Well, that was Mr. Hall, was
it not?
Q: Who took you to the Ramsey county
jail? A. The two deputies took me there.
How came you to go to the Ramsey
county jail. A. I suppose they had a reason
for it; I am not supposed to know how I
came to go there.
Q. Have you ever been told by these au-
thorities that you could when you desired
to go out from arrest and go home? A. I.
have been told so.
Q. When were you told so? A. As soon
as I found out I was not indicted.
Q. Who told you that? A. A. H. Hall.
He came to St. Paul and told me so.
Q. What made you remain in jail after
that? A. The reason I remained there was
through the elder's advice, to protect my-
self. Not for fear of any bodily harm, but
to protect myself from what the papers
would say in regard to these things and
the lies that would get out in the papers, I
did it simply to protect myself. I knew, of
course, nothing that was coming from your
side; I had the privilege of leaving but I
was advised to do otherwise; they brought
the elder along; I wanted his advice.
Q. Who brought the elder along? A. He
came with Mr. Hall, as I would not agree
to nothing without him, as they all knew.
I depend more on his advice than I do on
either of the county attorneys in this case.
Q. What made the elder so anxious that
you be kept from any questioning by any-
body until you gave your testimony?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as not cross-exam-
ination.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. What reason did the elder assign for
your staying in jail and not going up and
staying at his house or under his imme-
diate protection?
Mr. Nye—Same objection.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. You say you stayed in jail because of
. advice– A. Because I thought it was
est.
Q. Well, now, did you stay because you
thought the advice was good? A. I did.
Q. Well, now, what was the advice?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as not cross-exam-
ination.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Well, without regard to the advice,
what did you stay there for?
The Court—He has already stated that
he thought the advice given him was good.
Mr. Erwin–Well, your honor won't allow
me to prove what the advice was.
The Court–No.
Mr. Erwin–Then I cannot get it then.
The Court—He said—he has already stat-
ed. You know the confidential relations be-
tween a client and attorney is not per-
mitted to be brought out in testimony at
any time.
Mr. Erwin–Well, is Mr. Stewart an at-
torney?
The Court–He is, sir, and was long be-
fore you were born.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if the court please, I
did not know that. (Prolonged laughter.)
Well, if that is the case, with such an aged
attorney, and with such advice, I must cer-
tainly apologize.
Q. Now, you know, don't you, that your
mother and father, or rather your mother,
after you were not indicted, was prohibited
from seeing you at the jail? A. She did
see nine.
Q. Well, was she not prohibited at that
time? A. She was prohibited at that time
under my instructions. I sent instructions
to the sheriff that I did not want to see







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
177
anybody but the county attorney and
Sheriff Chapel.
Q. That is just what I want to bring
out. Sheriff Chapel, of St. Paulº A. Yes,
---
Q. Now, then, you gave them written in-
structions that your mother should not be
permitted to enter your cell? A. I did not
say my mother or anyone; I stated that
no one should see me without my request.
Q. And you know that your mother came
down there and visited you, and she was
prohibited from seeing you? A. She saw
me every time she came.
Q: Did not your mother come down there
on several occasions and did not get in-
gress to your cell, after you had failed to
be indicted?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as not cross-ex-
amination.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. What did you give orders that no-
body be allowed to come into your cell or
to see you without your permission for 2
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial and
not proper cross-examination.
The Court—The same ruling.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Now, I will ask you if you did not
give, if you did not immure yourself and
hide yourself under the protective walls of
the state's jail in order that you might
create a surprise, a dramatic surprise, by
reason of your testimony against your
brother?
Mr. Nye Objected to as immaterial, not
cross-examinoation, and unfair to the wit-
ness.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Did you not go before the grand jury
and testify against your brother? A. I
went before the grand jury—I was taken
before the grand jury, rather.
Q. And after you had been taken before
the grand jury and been a witness in this
case against your brother, you were au-
thorized by the authorities to go at liber-
ty, if you desired? A. No, sir, not at that
time.
Q. After you failed to be indicted, were
you not? A. As far as I know, when I
found out I was not indicted Mr. Hall came
to St. Paul and told me that as far as
they were concerned they could not hold
me and I would be released.
Mr. Nye-I submit, if the court please,
that has been sufficiently explained.
Mr. Erwin–Perhaps it has for your side,
Mr. Nye, but I want to bring it out
clearly.
The Court–He has already stated it,
the same thing.
Q. After you had been a witness and had
been notified that you would be discharged
from custody if you desired, you still con-
tinued the order that nobody should see you
except with your permission, and that
you would remain in the custody of the
stae?
Mr. Nye-The same objection.
The Court—Well, he has answered that
once.
The Witness—That has been answered.
The Court—The objection is sustained on
the ground that the question has been an-
swered and on the ground that it is not
proper cross-examination.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if it is admitted that
the question has been answered, yes—
Mr. Nye Yes, he has answered it.
Mr. Erwin–Very well, if it is admitted
that it has been answered once.
The Court—I think the reporter's min-
utes will show it.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I am glad if they do,
but I would like to show it myself. How-
ever, if it is admitted, I am certain.
Q. Now, I will ask you to tell this jury
why you took this extraordinary course,
hiding yourself in jail, if you intended to
be a witness here against your brother?
Mr. Nye-The same objection.
The Court—That has been answered; the
objection is sustained.
Q. Well, I will ask you whether or not
you did not hide yourself in jail because
there lurked within your bosom a fear
that if you were out of jail and told your
story to the public they would find it to
be untrue? A. Not at all—not a particle of
it; no, sir.
Q. Now, you have refused to see any-
body but your mother, have you not, and
you have not seen your father? A. I saw
my father, but not privately. I refused to
see my father, and I still refuse to see him
privately.
Q. And you still refuse to see him pri-
vately 2 A. Yes, sir, you bet I do.
Q. And you have seen your mother how
many times? A. I have seen my mother
three times.
Q. But you have refused to see her on
certain occasions? A. No, sir, I think she
was there once and I did not see her.
They have their rules down there and they
cannot change their rules unless the sheriff
understands it. I did not know she was
there, though—I think she was there once
and I did not know it.
Q. Is there a deputy with you yet? A.
Yes, sir, there is.
Q. Where are you stopping now? A. At
the Waverly; that is on Harmon lyetween
Eleventh and Twelfth.
Q. Have you stayed at all with your fam-
ily since you were arrested? A. I have been
to see my family about as I please.
Q. But have you remained there at night?
A. No, sir.
Q. You have been in the custody of the
law ever since? A. All the time.
Q. When you have been to see your
family has the deputy gone with you? A.
A deputy has.
Q. Was it at your request? A. It was
at my request that I took the deputy with
me all the While.
Q. Now, you state to this jury that this
was not because of any fear of bodily
harm from the public? A. I do say so yet.
Q. Well, what was the reason you did it?
A. I kept the deputy with me so they
could not get a pack of lies out—say what
I did not say; and I kept the deputy around
for protection, so I would not be bothered
by newspaper reporters saying I did so
and so, when I did not. I did it as a pre-
caution for myself, not knowing what was
coming from the other side. I did not
know what they would run me into, but it
was well enough to be cautious.
Mr. Erwin–I think, your honor, that is
all.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Adry, you had no objection, had you,
stating to the lawyers for the defense in
this case, in our presence, what you knew






178 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
about this? A. I stated the whole case in
the presence of Mr. Erwin, John Day Smith
and yourself, and Mr. Hall; the whole
story I have told now. Two weeks ago–
two or three weeks ago about now I stated
the whole thing to them and they drew out
some things that I have not stated here.
Q. Were you a witness before the grand
jury? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you also communicated freely
with your mother at the jail? A. Every time
she was there she saw me—she might have
been there when the sheriff did not see her.
But when she came she saw me privately
in the cell. No one was allowed in the cell
by the deputy but her.
Q. Have you any feeling whatever against
your brother? A. I have no feeling what-
ever against him but what I can overcome
and an overcoming it in this trial. I talk
a little bad sometimes, but I have done
everything I could to shield him, and I did
everything to shield him until Elder Stew-
art told me—
Mr. Erwin–I object to that and move that
it be stricken out of the record. We don’t
want any of his pity.
Q. How well were you acquainted with
Blixt? A. I don’t know what you call how
well; I moved into the block on Sept. 4 and
I have talked with Blixt a very few times;
I don’t know the man any more than a
speaking acquaintance, scarcely any.
Mr. Erwin–I omitted one question that
I would like to ask Mr. Hayward.
Mr. Nye-We have no objection.
Mr. Erwin–Were you ever with Miss
Ging at the Ryan Hotel in St. Paul? A. I
never saw Miss Ging in my life—
Mr. Erwin–From the middle of July
down to before this homicide occurred 2 A.
No time whatever did I ever see Miss Ging
to my knowledge—never been with her any-
Where.
Mr. Erwin–That is all.
Mr. Nye-I want to call your attention,
Adry, to the conversation that you had
with Harry after you came back to the
office on Nov. 30, that was Friday? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recollect anything further
that you said by way of counsel or advice
to him? A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. State what it was? A. After he said
he wanted to talk with me and I sat down
with him before I got through I finally said,
“Harry, I believe you are hard up, out of
money, broke, and if you will drop this
thing I will go with you to father, al-
though I have scarcely any influence with
father, but with your help I will try to get
him to give you some money, if you will
settle down and try to do something and
stop gambling.” That is the last talk 1
had with Harry.
Mr. Nye-I believe that is all.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin. -
Q. Mr. Hayward, the night you were at
the West Hotel, the greater part of the
night, were any threats made against you
by any officer of the city? A. I was never
at the West Hotel during the investigation
of this matter.
Q. Were you ever in the custody of In-
spector Hoy? A. For about half or three-
quarters of an hour—I was taken down
town.
Q. Where were you with Inspector Hoy
and about what time? A. It was about 11
o'clock or shortly after the night I was ar-
rested. I think it was Thursday evening,
the 6th. I went from their office along
Third street to Nicollet, and along Nicollet
to Chief Smith's office, and I waited there
10 or 15 minutes, sending a note to Mr.
Warner and sending a note to my wife; we
went from there to that 10-cent restaurant
across the street and got something to eat.
Q. Never mind about that? A. Well, I
wanted to tell you. We went from there
back to Chief Smith's office and then to the
lockup.
Q. And that is the only time you have
ever been in the custody of Inspector Hoy
since the homicide? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And during that time you were with
him he never made any threats whatever if
you did not divulge everything you knew?
A. He never made any threats, no, sir.
James G. Doyle.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Doyle, you are on the police force
of this city, in the detective department?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have heard ex-Mayor Eustis' tes-
timony upon the stand, have you? A: I did.
Q. Were you with the mayor and Harry
considerable, after he was taken into cus-
tody, or while you were investigating the
facts in this case? A. I was with them on
Thursday, the day after his arrest only;
that is the only time that I ever spoke to
Harry.
Q. Well, without going into much detail
state the trips you made, and where you
were with him—were you with him at all
except when Mayor Eustis was present? A.
No, sir; I never was. Well, on that day,
maybe once or twice, I was with him When
Mr. Eustis was not present.
(witness corroborated Mr. Eustis' testi-
mony about the visit to Harry's room,
Harry's breaking the revolver, etc., the
trip to the Loan and Trust Company vault,
the examination of the papers, and the
visit to the Oneida Block.)
Q. Well, coming to the Oneida Block, I
will ask you if there was any reference
made or explanation made by Harry, in
reference to the note transaction, and
about witherspoon witnessing the notes?
A. Yes, sir; he showed us the table where
witherspoon, the elevator boy, witnessed
them, and he told us about Blixt coming
down to get a valve, or something of that
kind, and witnessed the notes. And he
showed us two envelopes like the money
was in, and he opened the safe and show-
ed us where the money was. I think $7,000.
I asked him if he was not a little careless
in keeping that amount of money in a
small fire proof safe like that, and he said
he did not know but what he was. And
he showed us and told us about the whole
transaction.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Do you recollect the derringer,
whether it was in a different place from
the revolver; whether the derringer was
not in a little valise? A. I don’t remember
I think he took both out of the trunk.
He was some distance from us, and
didn't notice very closely.
Q well, you did not notice particularly?
A. I did not notice particularly.




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL
179
John Patton.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your business, Mr. Patton?
A. I am a life insurance agent for the
New York Life.
Q. You know Harry Hayward? A. Yes,
sir; I just had a slight acquaintance with
the gentleman.
Q. You ever had any conversation with
him concerning life insurance? A: I had
for a short time, I think, as near as my
recollection serves, it was some time about
the first of November last year.
Q. Do you know where that conversation
occurred? A. In the Oneida Block.
Q. You may state what that conversa-
tion was, A. Of course, I was asking him
if he was carrying an insurance on his
own life, and he gave me to understand
that he was carrying as much as he was
well able to bear; and he also gave me to
understand that there was a young lady
that he was acquainted with by the name
of Miss Ging that was about to take out
a policy in the New York Life for $7,000.
I said to him, “I am sorry I did not get
the job of doing it.” Said he, “You are
too late now; we have applied, or she has
applied to Mr. Pierce, of the New York
Life, the cashier of the company.” And
then I left. I was not there very long. He
simply asked me if a policy of insurance
could be transferred—a policy in the New
York Life—could be transferred from Miss
Ging to him, in the event of her receiving
the policy, and I says, “The company al-
ways does such things.” That is the only
time he ever had a talk with me about
life insurance.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Wasn't you at the Ozark making in-
quiry about insurance? A. I don’t remem-
ber. I was there once and a lady told me
where to find him, in the Oneida Block.
Q. Well, that was Adry you went to see?
A. I went to see both of them.
Q. Well, it was Adry, that had an office
and the lady told you it was Adry that you
could find at the office instead of Harry?
A. I think I was told that both of them
were at the office.
Q. Well, you are not sure about that, are
you, Mr. Patton? A: I am not sure that
Harry's name was mentioned at that time,
but when I went to the office I know I saw
Harry and Adry together.
And while there in Adry's presence
Harry said that Miss Ging was going to
get a life insurance policy for seven thou-
sand dollars? A. Seven thousand dollars,
yes, sir.
J. E. Hodge.
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your business? A. Life insur-
ance. I am agent for the New England Mu-
tual Life Insurance Company.
Q. Do you know Mr. Harry Hayward? A.
I know him by sight.
Q. Do you recall the occasion when you
first met him? A. I do. It was in my of—
fice about the first of September, I cannot
swear to the date, I can swear to some of
the circumstances.
Q: Did you at that time have a conver-
sation with him concerning life insurance?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You may state to the jury the circum-
stances of that occasion, as near as you
can recall it? A: I came to the office about
ten minutes past 4 and he was in there con-
versing with one of my agents.
Q: Who was that? A. Frederick White.
Upon coming in I went to Mr. White's
desk–Mr. Hayward was sitting on the left
and either Mr. White, I think it was Mr.
White, informed me that the gentleman
was there inquiring about life insurance
for a lady, and they were discussing at
that time about the probability of the issu-
ing of the policy. I cannot remember more
of the conversation that occurred at the
desk there. I notified both of the gentlemen
to step into my private office, and we dis-
cussed, first of all, the insurable interest—
Mr. Hayward wanted to know if he could
take out a policy making him the bene-
ficiary. I said he could not. He wanted to
know why. I said that the New York Life
Insurance Company, considered insurance
of that sort speculative, inasmuch as no in-
surable interest could be established, that
is, without any reference to any further
Conversation. Then it was stated that he
had loaned, or was going to loan, an
amount which I remember was something
like $1,000, and he wanted to take out a
$5,000 policy on her life. I said he could
take a policy of insurance on her life, mak-
ing an assignment to himself for that loan;
that the company would in no wise make
him the beneficiary, on account of experi-
ence of a similar sort which had been
very unsatisfactory in life insurance. He
wanted to know why the whole policy
would not be paid to him if—I can’t re-
member his exact words now, but if he
should pay the whole premium first, if he
should pay the whole premium himself,
would not the company—I said it made no
difference.
Q: Did Mr. Hayward at any other time
call at the office to discuss life insurance
with you? A. Not while I was there.
There is another part of the conversation I
would like to give.
Q. You may do so. A. I stated that
while he could not be made beneficiary, the
policy could be assigned to him as col-
lateral security for a note of her indebt-
edness to him. And it was also further
asked why the whole policy could not be
assigned to him in the same way. I said a
note of even date 10r the full amount might
be written, but—of even date or there-
abouts—and he stated “Supposing the es-
tate of the lady should find out that he
had not loaned the full $5,000, could he
then get the whole policy?” And he
laughed and he said he guessed that would
not hold Water.
Q. Was anything said about the age or
name of the lady to whom he referred in
his conversation? A: I think nothing was
said to me about the age. The idea of
premium, not that I can swear to what
that was, but the impression with me is
that the premium was slightly over $100.
Q. And what would that indicate as to
age? A. Twenty-nine or thirty—from 27 to
30. My impression is somewhere about $110
or $104–som where along there. Not very
much over $100.
Q. Have you at any time since had any
conversation with Mr. Hayward? A. I
have not. -
Q. Did your company ever write any in-
surance for Mr. Hayward or for Catherine
Ging? A. Not to my knowledge.




OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Do you remember distinctly,
Hodge, the amount of the premium ?
do not exactly, but slightly over $100.
Q. What impression did it make upon
your mind at that time? Did you make a
computation at that time? A. Not with any
definiteness, not until he asked me what
the premium was.
Q. And you recollect the amount of the
premium, not from conversation with Mr.
Hayward, but from your independent recol-
lection ? A. I assure you, sir, that the im-
pression gained was directly from Mr. Hay-
Ward's conversation with me. I am sure
that Mr. White and I had other conversa-
tions, but as I remember it I can see the
picture in my mind of that conversation.
Q. Well, there is always a good deal of
preliminary skirmishing before a policy is
taken out in a company, is there not–
what I mean by that is, inquiries as to the
Mr.
A.. I
law, and as to the different clauses in the
policies, their binding force, and so forth,
is there not? A. There is always enough
conversation to establish clearly in the
mind of the prospective policy holder the
meaning of the policy.
Q. You have non-suicide clauses and non-
forfeiture clauses in your policy? A. Yes,
Slºr.
Q. Different companies have different
provisions in their policies on that subject?
A. Certainly.
Q. In a non-forfeiture of the policy and
under certain circumstances, the policy
would not be paid if a death occurred? A.
No, sir.
Q. This was an entirely open transaction
—he did not seem to be private about it
at all; he conversed with you openly; con-
versed with your clerk; conversed with you
both— A. He did not converse with my
clerk.
Q. I thought you said he conversed with
Mr. White? A. He did, but Mr. White is
not a clerk; he is employed by me—it is a
very different thing.
Q. Well, what is his business? A. He
is an insurance agent for the New England
Mutual Life Insurance Company.
Q. Well, I don't care what you call him.
A. It makes all the difference in the world.
Q. Well, there was nothing private about
it; he conversed with you openly and free-
ly? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And he conversed with Mr. White? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And then you and Mr. White and Mr.
Hayward went into your private office and
conversed there for three-quarters of an
hour about different kinds of policies and
what could be done in relation to him se-
curing himself for a loan 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. He stated that a thousand dollars had
been loaned and he wanted the insurance
to secure that loan 2 A. Not as I remember
his words. I was not impressed with the
idea that a loan was fully made at that
time. -
Q. Well, give his words rather than
your impression, if you canº A. I cannot
say whether his words were that he had
made a loan or that he was going to make
a loan.
Q. Well, now, I think I misunderstand
one of your answers. You suggested that
where the loan had not been made, that a
|
note might be made for a larger amount
and in that way he could secure the in-
surance? A. The only possible way of mak-
ing the company pay him.
Q. And that was your suggestion? A. It
was right along in the line of the note he
had made or was going to make.
Q. Let the reporter read my question to
you again.
(Reporter here read the last question put
by counsel.)
Q. I will put that question again. Do I
understand that you suggested that in case
he had made a loan of $1,000 that he might
have a note written of about even date of
the policy for a larger amount than the
loan, in order that he might recover the
full amount of the insurance? A. I think I
suggested that; yes, sir. Mr. Hayward did
not ask me fully about the note, the $5,000,
as I remember it. I think I stated to him
that a note of a larger amount, say for
$5,000, of even date or thereabouts, might
be made to establish—and the only way to
establish an insurable interest in our com-
pany, for the full amount of the policy.
Q. And it was in reply to that suggestion
that he said if the estate would find out
after the decease of the insured, that the
loan was not made for so large an amount
note, that he guessed it would not hold
water? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, Harry's conclusions were right?
A. I presume they were.
Q. Did Harry Hayward tell you about
the time of that interview in your office
that he had gotten terms from other agents
of your company? A. He was looking up
the subject; he said so.
Q. There was nothing done secretly—
everything was done free and above board;
he told you that he had conversed with
other agents, and that he had gotten their
terms, and that he was seeing what he
could do? A. Yes, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Was there any inquiry by Mr. Hay-
Ward at that time in reference to these
clauses that Mr. Smith has referred to, the
non-forfeiture clause, by which a policy
might run out, the case of non-payment?
A. Not with me, no, sir.
Q. The conversation was directed to the
points you have discussed? A. I know I
made the statement directly that I did not
see how it was possible to establish an in-
surable interest beyond the amount of
money he had loaned, under straight busi-
ness, how he could establish anything fur-
er.
Q. And the suggestion of the five thou-
sand dollar note was simply a suggestion,
a matter of proof and evidence? A. Yes,
sir.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock
p. m.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 12.
Arthur G. Pierce.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. What is your business? A. Insurance,
life insurance.
Q. Do you know the defendant, Harry
T. Hayward? A. I do.
Q. When and where was it that you
first saw Mr. Hayward? A. Along the lat-
ter part of September, 1894, as near as I
could remember the date.























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL
181
Q. Where was it? A. In my office—the
New York Life Building.
Q. Did you have any conversation with
him there in regard to life insurance? A.
I did. He called at the office and made
some inquiries in regard to insurance, stat-
ing that he wanted the rates, the cost per
thousand on the life of a woman, which
I gave to him. He was not there very
long, I don't think more than 10 or 15 min-
utes; talked over some different plans, and
I gave him the different rates on those
plans.
Q. You say he talked over different
plans of insurance—will you indicate to the
jury what was said in regard to the differ-
ent plans of insurance? A. In regard prin-
cipally as to the cost of the different plans.
They ranged, of course, the rates higher on
some than on others.
Q. Was the age of the person who was
to be insured given? A. I think it was—
it was approximately.
Q. It was to be on the life of a woman?
A. Yes, sir.
And what age was given by Mr. Hay-
ward in these inquiries? A. As near as I
can remember now it was about 39, I think
it was somewhere in that neighborhood.
Q. When and where was it that you
next saw Mr. Hayward? A. I am not
positive whether he called again to inquire
after the rates before the 5th of Novem-
ber; I am quite certain that he did. I
think he did, but I could not swear to it.
Q: What was the time and circum-
stances when you next remember seeing
him? A. Mr. Hayward—I have not the date
in my head. I will have to refer to mem-
orandum, if I am allowed.
Q. You man refer to it. A. It was on
the 17th of November.
Q. Where was it? A. At the office of
the New York Life Insurance Company in
this city.
Q. He came alone? A. Came alone.
Q. You may state what he said then.
A. He said that Miss Ging had informed
him that there was some mistake in mak-
ing out the report in regard to a certain
answer, and wanted to know if it had
been corrected. I replied that it had, and
had been sent to New York, the amended
answer.
Q. In the meantime, had any insurance
been written by your company upon the
application, or in pursuance of any of the
interviews that you had had with Hay-
ward? A. I think that application had
been made.
Q. To whom was that application given—
who took that application? A. Miss
Catherine Ging.
Q. To what agent? A. To me.
Q. When was it that Miss Ging first
called at your office? A. The 15th day on
November.
Q. At that time was she alone? A. She
was. She came into the office and inquired
for me, using my name.
Q. Had you ever met Miss Ging before
that time? A. I never had.
Q. You did not know her? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not know that she knew
you? A. No, sir.
Q. She inquired for you by name? A.
She did.
Q. You at that time had a conversation
with her? A. I did.
Q. Regarding what? A. Life insurance
on her life.
Q. At that time she made an application
for life insurance? A. She did.
Q. I show you exhibits V-5 and 6, and ask
you if you can tell what they are? A. Five
is a copy of the medical examiner's report,
and the answers to the medical examiner
by Miss Ging, on an application for insur-
ance to the New York Life Insurance Com-
pany.
Q. No. 6 is what? A. No. 6 is also a
copy of the same.
Q. Is that the application to which you
have referred in your testimony? A. That
examination refers to that application.
Q. Now, in pursuance of that application
was it or not written by them, being on the
life of Catherine Ging? A. It was.
Q. I show you exhibit V and ask you if
you can tell what that is? A. That is an
insurance policy written by the New York
Life Insurance Company for the sum of
$5,000 on the life of Catherine M. Ging.
Q. Can you tell whether that was a
policy written on the application to which
you have referred? A. I can. It was.
Q. Was this policy—exhibit V, to which
you have referred—in force on the life of
Catherine Ging at the time of her death,
the 3d of December, 18947 A. It was.
Q. Now, you have referred to an inter-
view with Mr. Hayward on the 7th day of
November. You say he called in refer-
ence to some statement in regard to some
clause of the insurance. Referring to the
policy, you will explain what that was 2 A.
In the declarations of the medical examiner
under the head of question No. 11-a, the
question is, “Are your habits at the pres-
ent time, and have they always been, sober
and temperate?”
Q. What is the answer? A. The answer
in the copy, or on the policy here, is no.
Q. Now you may give the conversation
with Mr. Hayward and what was done in
reference to that answer? A. It is neces-
sary to go back one day in order to bring
that more clearly up. The home office
wrote back and said that that answer was
either answered wrong, or else it should
be corrected; and I went to Miss Ging's
place of business, the Syndicate Block, and
explained to her how it was. She stated
that she had answered yes to the medical
examiner in answer to that question.
Q. Her habits were temperate? A. Yes,
sir. Before going there I think I asked the
doctor in regard to it, and he made reply
that it was answered “no.” It was a
mistake on his part.
Q. A mistake in the answer made by
Miss Ging or in the writing of the ap-
plication? A. Yes; in the writing out.
Q. What was the conversation with Mr.
Hayward in regard to that matter? A.
Then on the 17th, the day following my
interview with Miss Ging, he came to the
office, I think in the forenoon, and stated
that Miss Ging informed him that there
had been some mistake in regard to those
papers, and asked me if it had been cor-
rected, to which I replied it had and the
correction had gone forward to New York.
Q. The premium on this insurance had
been paid at the time indicated in these
receipts referred to? A. On the 5th day
of November, the time she made applica-
tion.





182
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
Q. Exhibit V-22 A. Yes, Exhibit V-2 is
a receipt I gave to Miss Ging.
Q. That is a receipt for the premium
paid upon the insurance? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is it or is it not customary to trans-
mit to the insured copies of their applica-
tions? A. Well, it is sometimes requested
by the insured. When it is, we furnish
them with it.
Q. Had that been requested by anybody?
A. It had been, by Miss Ging.
Q. In any of the interviews had with
Mr. Hayward, had he made any suggestion
or said anything to you about copies of
the application? A. He never had that I
can remember.
Q. When was it that you next saw Mr.
Hayward after November 17? A. It was
about the 26th, perhaps the 27th day of
November, I think, as near as I can re-
member.
Q. Where was that? A. At the office
of the New York Life Insurance Company.
Q. Was he alone when he called? A.
He was. As near as I can remember he
came in and asked for blank assignment
to be used in assigning a policy, and I
gave him a set. They are issued in dupli-
cate.
Q. Do you know what time this policy
was received and delivered to Miss Ging,
or to anyone for her? A. On the 25th
day of November, received by me from the
company and I delivered it in person to
Miss Ging's office, her place of business
in the Syndicate Block, room 65.
Q. It was the day following? A. The
day following; Mr. Hayward called one or
two days after. I would not be certain
of the exact time.
Q. And asked you for a blank form of
assignment of the policy? A. Yes.
Q. Had you any talk with him that day
about assignment of insurance policies? A.
I cannot recall any.
Q. Did you furnish him with any copies?
A. I did, the regular forms used by the
Company. He took the copies and left
the office. I next saw him on the 28th
day of November. I came into the office
and he and Miss Ging were there waiting.
One of them, I don’t know which it was,
made the reply, that they had come to
assign the policy—I don’t know who it was
that informed me. So I led them into the
second room, room 311, and there we got
out the necessary blanks and I wrote up
the assignment, drew it up.
Q. I show you Exhibit V-3, and ask vou
in whose handwriting that is? A. It is
mine.
Q. Was or was not that one of the blanks
that you had given to Mr. Hayward? A.
I don’t think I ever furnished him one of
those blanks. Cannot recall that I ever did.
That is only a copy of the blanks Miss
Ging signed on the 15th of Noveber.
Q. I understand you to say that you
made out an assignment at that time?
Have you a copy of it? A. Yes, I have.
Q. was that assignment executed in du-
plicate, or only a single copy made? A.
issued in duplicate, which is always re-
quired by the company.
Q: What was done with the two copies?
A. They were handed to one of the par-
ties. I don't know which took them.
Q. Do you know whether Hayward or
Miss Ging? A: I could not say as to that.
Q. And the other, what was done with
that? A. They were both handed to
whichever party took them; that is in the
forenoon. It was executed by the clerk
of the court, who certified to the notary's
acknowledgment, signed and sealed.
Q. He was to have that certificate of the
notary attached? A. I don't know who
did—they were returned to me.
Q. Brought back later in the day? A.
Same day, I think it was.
Q. Do you know what was done with
both copies, were they both sent on? A.
They were both sent to New York.
Q. You have one of the copies that was
retained by the company? A. ſes, sir.
Q. Do you know what has become of the
other duplicate? A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q: What was done with it? A. It was
mailed to Mr. Hayward's address in the
city. I cannot recall the exact date. I
could get the exact date. It was some
time in December.
Q. Subsequent to the time of Miss Ging's
death? A. Yes, sir.
Q. If you have a duplicate copy, will you
produce it? A. This is a duplicate of the
assignment of this policy.
Mr. Erwin-What has that to do with her
case—it was done after her death. It was
mailed after her death.
Mr. Hall—This company was retained by
the company before her death.
Copy was marked Exhibit v-, .
vº Hall–We will offer this in evidence,
Mr. Erwin–It is understood that these
words, “Notary Public, Hennepin County,
Minnesota,” were afterwards written in by
Hayward.
The Court—I think that is in proof al-
ready.
Mr. Nye-We would like to read this to
the jury.
Mr. Hall–We would like to present this
to the jury now. The company has made a
request and forwarded this from the East,
with the tacit understanding that it might
remain in their possession. They only have
one copy. The other was mailed by them,
as stated, to Mr. Hayward.
Mr. Hall–Do you recall any further con-
versation at the time of the execution of
this assignment on the 28th of November?
Mr. Erwin–I will state Mr. Hayward in-
forms me his father has an exact duplicate
of it, so he can produce the exact copy.
(Last question here read.) -
A. In addition to the request to draw up
these assignment blanks of the New York
Life policy, I was also requested to draw
up some policies issued by the Travelers'
Insurance Company; I think the agent of
the company told her he had no blanks for
that purpose, and wanted to know if ours
would not do. I told her that I presumed
they would, and would use ours for that
purpose. I took two of them and with a
pen drawed off the words “New York Life
Insurance” and wrote in the words “Trav-
elers’ Accident Insurance,” I think, are the
words I wrote there.
Q. I show you exhibit W-6, and ask you
if you recall that paper. A. That is one I
just referred to as having been drawn up.
Q. Did you see Mr. Hayward or Miss
Ging after that time? A. After the 28th?
No, sir, I did not.
Q. At no time subsequent to the 28th.
have you ever seen either parties? A. I.
saw Mr. Hayward on the street subsequent





























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
183
to the 3d day of December, but only passed
the time of day.
CEROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You are one of the agents of the New
York Life Insurance Company in this city,
authorized to solicit life insurance for that
company? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And people are constantly applying to
you as well as other agents for life insur-
ance in that company? A. Yes, sir.
Now, can't you give something that
the jury will understand more than what
you stated about what that conversation
was. For instance, I will ask you, have
you different plans of insurance? A. I
have.
Q. Now, what plans have you, of insur-
ance, what general ones? A. To be brief,
the ordinary life plan, which is a loan rate
given by the company.
Q. An ordinary life plan where they pay
every year during the life time? A: Yes,
sir.
Q. Is it a policy, then, that is payable at
death? A. Yes, sir.
Now, what is another plan? A. The
limited life plan, payable in 10, 15 or 20
years. That is a life insurance based upon
a certain number of annual payments.
Q. Now, that is two kinds of plans—
have you any other plan? A. The endow-
ment plan, written on different terms, 5 10,
15, or 20, or longer.
Q. Then, as I understand you generally,
a person taking out insurance upon the en-
dowment plan, for instance, they are made
payable, what is the time under the en-
dowment plan? A. Five years.
Q. Now, a person in taking out a policy
upon the endowment plan for five years
pays a premium for only five years at the
expiraion of which he gets the amount he
is insured for paid to him in cash? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Explain it still further. If Miss
Catherine Ging took out a policy on the
endowment plan for $5,000 in your company
she would pay five payments, would she
not? A. If she kept it up till maturity,
kept it in force.
Q. If she kept it she would pay only
five times, one each year, and at the end of
five years your company would have to
pay her the $5,000 in cash? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You would not wait for her death?
A. No, sir.
Q: What would be the rate for a woman
of 29, on the simple annual plan, where she
paid a payment once a year, and the policy
was payable at her death? A. It would
be $27.70 per $1,000.
What would it be upon a plan where
the payments were made for five years,
and the policy payable at death? A. I
cannot give you five years; I can give you
for 20 years; age 29, the payment would be
$35,50 per $1,000.
Q. You would multiply this payment by
the number of thousands she took; $5,000
would be five times that amount? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. The longer term she had to pay, the
smaller would be the annual payment un-
der that plan? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In the endowment plan, where she
would receive the $5,000 at the end of five
years, what would be her premium? A. I
can only give you 20 years. Twenty years,
endowment, age 29, would be $54.40 per
Q. That is what she would have to pay
for 20 payments, $54.40? A. Yes, sir, for 20
consecutive years.
Q. And if she was alive and made these
payments, at the last payment, or one of
the last, you would pay her the $5,000 in
cash? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, did you discuss with Hayward
the different plans of insurance? A. I
think I did; I don’t remember whether I
gave him one of our general rates or not.
The rates were taken by him, too; I think
he took them down. I would not say as to
that.
Q. Was there any secrecy in this; was it
open and above board? A. Open and
above board.
As I understand it, Catherine Ging
called in person alone, Nov. 5? A. Nov. 5,
in the forenoon.
Q. Did she say who
you? A. She did; Mr. Hayward. As near
as I could remember, she wanted me to
explain to her the many insurance policies
which Mr. Hayward had talked over with
me. She came into the office and I sat
down to the desk to explain, I think, one
or two ways, one in regard to the forms of
policy, giving her the price per $1,000 on it.
After some talk she desired to take $5,000
on that plan on the 20-payment life plan.
Q: What did she say she was getting her
life insured for? A. I cannot recall exact-
ly what she did state. I think she said she
wanted to do it as collateral security for a
lcan or for business purposes.
Q. Now, explain to the jury what was
the difference between the ordinary life
plan, the premium, and that plan which
she took? A. At 29 the ordinary life would
cost $27.70 per $1,000.
Q. And five times that is how much—five
times $27.70 is $138,502 A. I had not figured
it. That is right.
Q. She would have to pay $138.50 for that
—that is your cheapest plan? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did she pay on this plan? A.
On that plan which she has the rate per
$1,000 is $35.50.
Q. $5,000? A. $5,000.
Q. How much did she pay then? A. On
account of paying the premium quarterly
she paid the larger amount than the first.
By paying it quarterly the company
Charges an extra rate.
Q. What did she pay a year? A. $177.50,
if she paid it all down.
Q. How much more is that than the an-
nual plan A. It is about $29.
Q. How much º A. $29 more.
Q. Now, could she pay the New York
company on the annual plan quarterly pay-
ments on the annual plan? A. On the or-
dinary life plan she could.
Q. Could she on this plan of 20 years?
A. She could on any plan.
Q. She could, therefore, just as well have
taken out a small annual policy and paid
only a quarter of the premium—that would
be a quarter of $138.50, or a little more than
that? A. A little more than that.
Q. She could just as well have done that
as to pay you a quarter on $177.502 A.
Yes, sir, exactly.
Q. Did you explain that to her? A. Yes,
I explained to her the cost.
had referred her to




OFFICIAL snºRog RAPHIC REPORT:
Q. What made her choose the 20-year
plan instead of the annual plan?
Objected to as immaterial.
Q: What did she do about that? A. I
gave her the figures what it would be at
naturity.
Q. Tell the jury what you gave her,
about what? A. I told her it would be
about $800 on the $1,000; $4,000 cash, $5,000
payable at death.
Q. You told her the policy, if she took
out the 20-year plan, would have a cash
value of $4,800? A. Yes, sir, something in
that neighborhood.
Q. Upon your showing the advantages of
this plan she decided to take this plan? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. After she decided to take this plan,
what did she say—what did you tell her?
A. It was arranged as to the medical ex-
annination, which she said she would have.
- You speak by rote, being an agent.
Tell what you said and what you explained
to her. A. After I saw that she decided
upon the plan, I took the application. It
is marked Exhibit V-3.
Q. What did she tell you? A. She gave
me her name as Catherine Ging. Resi-
dence Minnesota, county of Hennepin, town
of Minneapolis, No. 6 Thirteenth street
south.
Mr. Erwin–I want the jury to see what
this is. Occupation or employment, dress-
maker. Are you married? No. Place of
birth. New York. Race or nationality.
Caucasian. Born on the 7th day of Octo-
ber, 1865. Age, nearest birthday, 29. Has
any proposal or application to insure your
life ever been made to any company or
agent upon which a policy has not been
issued as applied for? No. “To whom is
the insurance applied for to be payable
in event of death?” “A. My estate.” Did
she tell you that? A. That is the reason
she made it that way—it could be signed
or made payable to another party.
Q. Then she asked you at the time she
told you she wanted this payable to her
estate, whether this could be assigned to
any other party, and had given you to
understand before that, that she wanted
to use this as collateral for a loan 2 A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then &id you read her those contracts
and agreements? A. I did not.
Q. Didn’t you show this blank to her,
so she could read it? A. Yes, she did not
read it in full. She looked it over and
signed her name to it.
Q. Now, these agreements are as fol-
lows: (Reads from policy)? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that Catherine M. Ging's signature,
her writing? A. No, sir, it is not. This is
a copy of the original application.
Q. Now, where is the original applica-
tion? A. It is in New York city.
Q. After she had signed the application,
what did she say about payment? A. She
gave me a check for the amount of the first
quarterly premium.
On what bank? A. The First Na-
tional Bank of this city, signed by herself.
Q. Payable in what amount? A. $46,60,
I think. That was the first quarterly pre-
mium on the policy applied for.
Q. Now, after she had signed this ap-
plication and had paid you the money by
her own check, what was the check drawn
toº A.. I think it was drawn to the or-
der of the New York Life Insurance Com-
pany. I am not certain as to that.
Q. After that had been done, what did
you say to her about medical examination?
A. She said she would not have time this
forenoon to attend the medical examina-
tion. That was about 11 o'clock along in
the forenoon, but she would have it that
evening, and the hour was arranged for
7 o’clock that evening, at the doctor's of
fice, Dr. H. M. Bracken.
Q. She came back in the evening to the
office. A. Yes sir.
Q. Were you present at the time of the
examination of the doctor? A. I was not.
Q. You introduced her to Dr. Bracken,
and you did not remain during the exami-
nation 2 A. No, sir.
Q. What did you say to her when you
met her after the examination? A. I can-
not recall exactly what she said; she want-
ed to know if I would furnish her with a
copy of the application, and the report
which I did draw up and send to her by
mail.
Q. And on Nov. 6 you copied the med-
ical examiner's report signed by Dr. H.
M. Bracken 2 A. I did.
Q. Was the report which you gave her,
which you copied, was it delivered to her
the next day? A. The next day I think
I mailed it to her.
Q. This is the correct report? A. With
one correction in regard to this question
No. 11-a; I think you will find in my copy
there it reads “Yes.”
Q. In the declaration made to the med-
ical examiner, of the medical examiner's
report under No. 11 and Subdivision A, the
question is as follows: “Are your habits
at the present time, and have they always
been, sober and temperate?” A. Yes, sir,
in the doctor's copy. I have not looked at
the doctor's copy (witness looks at it.) It
is, yes, sir.
Q. Is that the doctor's handwriting? A.
That is Dr. Bracken's handwriting.
Q. Now, in your copy of this same doc-
tor's report, which at her request you
copied and mailed her the next day, in
No. 11, Subdivision A, to the question “Are
your habits at the present time, and have
they always been, sober and temperate,”
the answer is “No,” is it not? A. It is.
Q. Well, now, that was a mere clerical
mistake of yours? A. No, sir, mine is a
literal copy of the doctor's original report.
I copied exactly.
Q. You have his original report? A. No,
that is a copy of the original report. He
also furnished her with a copy. The or-
iginal is in New York city. There may
have been a copy of his original report on
that examination. He furnished her that
copy; I copied it exactly. He copied it as
the answer was given to him, but in re-
ducing the answer to writing on the origin-
al report, he wrote “No” by mistake, a
clerical error.
Q. The doctor made a clerical error? A.
Yes, he made it. I copied it exactly as it
is. The first intimation I had of the mis-
take was from a letter which came from
New York stating that the question had
been incorrectly answered, and on the
16th day of Nevember I went to her room
and asked her that question, whether the
“No” was a correct answer, and she said
it was not.
Q. She said her habits had been sober
and temperate? A. Yes; it was a mistake
I think she told me, that the doctor fur-






























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
185
nished her with a copy which had given
the answer, “Yes, sir.” She did not show
the copy to me. She then amended her an-
swer on the form sent up to New York,
and I forwarded it to the home office in
New York city.
Q. Then the mistake in relation to sober
habits came from the New York office and
not from Miss Ging? A. The mistake came
from Dr. Bracken having incorrectly writ-
ten the answer.
Q. In the meantime the policy had been
issued? A. It had not been. They would
not issue it until that was corrected, or an
explanation given.
Q. Now,then, was it afterwards amend-
ed in the policy? A. It was afterwards
amended in the papers, in the application
at the home office.
Q. Now, what I want to get at is this:
That the discovery of this mistake did not
come through Catherine Ging, or anybody
connected with her, but it came from your
home office and was referred to you and
the doctor, and was by you corrected? A.
Yes.
Q. Now, after you had mailed her this
copy, what did you do in reference to this
life insurance? A. I did nothing further
until the 16th of November, then I went to
her to have the amended answer, the cor-
rect answer given to that question.
Q: What else did you do beside that? A.
On the 25th of November. I delivered the
policy that you have in your hand to Miss
Ging in person at 65, I think it is, Syndi-
cate Block, Minneapolis.
Q: What time was the first notice that
Miss Ging had that you received it or that
you could deliver it? A. It must have been
Saturday, Nov. 24. I may have been mis-
taken as to the date.
Q. Might have been the 26th 2 A. Might
have been the 26th; it may possibly be the
24th or 26th.
Q. Is there anything at your home office
by which you can tell? A. I think I can
tell from the letter. I know it was not on
Sunday; it was on a week day.
Q. Now, that brings us down to Novem-
ber 24th or 26th. Now, did she come to you
on November 26th or 27th—that would be
Monday or Tuesday, and ask for an as-
signment? A. No, sir, she did not. Harry
did. He asked for blank forms to be used
in the assigning of the policy, and referred
to this policy—this is my impression now,
that he referred to this policy for the use
of the assignment of a policy. I think I
told him that they must be made out in
duplicate, acknowledged before a notary
public and clerk of the court, certifyinig
that the notary was authorized to take
acknowledgments. Further than that
º was no reason given that I can re-
Call. -
Q. Now, on November 28th, the next day
or second day after, Miss Ging and Harry
called, did they? A. They did. The as-
signment was made out on that day.
Q. Was"it made out before they called?
A. No, sir.
Q: What time did they call? A. Along in
the forenoon. It may have been along
about perhaps 1 o'clock, as near as I can
remember.
Q: Who spoke? A: I don’t know which
spoke first in regard to this, Miss Ging or
Hayward. They said they had come to make
ture is that? A. That
out an assignment of the insurance policy
which Miss Ging had received from me in
the New York Insurance Company, and
asked if I would attend to it for them. I
don’t think they stated the purpose, to be
assigned—I can’t recall that they did.
Q. Was there any talk there with you
about a loan of $7,000? A. I cannot recall ex-
actly. There was some remark, I think,
made by Mr. Hayward while they were
first in there about the trouble—it seems to
me it was some other time when they canne
with some papers they had been given,
they showing the result of policies issued
by another company. They asked me some
questions about the same, as it would bear
upon the New York Life policy which Miss
Ging had applied for, and I think at that
interview there was a remark made by
Mr. Hayward in which he used the sum
referred to, $7,000. I have only an indistinct
memory of that, so I could not tell you ex-
actly what it was.
Q. “For value received I hereby assign
and transfer to Harry T. Hayward, Min-
neapolis, Minnesota, the policy of insur-
ance known as No. 647,126, issued by New
York Life Insurance Company upon the
life of Catherine Ging, Minneapolis, and the
benefits and advantages to be had or deriv-
ed therefrom, subject to the conditions of
said policy. Witness my hand and seal this
28th day of November, 1894.” Whose signa-
is Catherine M.
Ging's signature.
Q. Did you see her sign it? A. I did.
Q. Did you bring the notary public in 2
A.. I did.
Q. Is that her signature? A. It is. He
was in the adjoining room.
Q. “State of Minnesota, County of Hen-
nepin. On this 28th of November, 1894, be-
fore me personally came Catherine Ging,
and executed the foregoing assignment and
acknowledged it. Signed Adam Hannah.”
You saw him sign it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The words “Notary Public, Hennepin
County, Minnesota,” they are in Mr. Hary-
ward's handwriting 2 A. I don't know
whose handwriting. I don't think they
were on there when it was first handed to
me that morning. When it was returned to
me they were on there.
Q. Now, then, your financial man goes
around to see what parties insured are
worth 2 A. We have a man whose title is
that of inspector of risks.
Q. Did that man call on Miss Ging? A. I
don’t think I could tell anything about it.
Q. Did he make a report to you about
the value of her property? A. No, he did
not, I don’t think.
Objected to as not the best evidence.
Q. I will have to have the man's name.
I wanted to keep it if it was any accommo-
dation to the company. A. I answered be-
fore that in regard to what his duties are;
he does not report to me; he reports direct
to the home office. His reports are private;
they go to the home office and are seen by
nobody until received there.
What is his name? A. Mortinner
Brook. I think he is in St. Paul now. He
is there most of the time.
Mr. Erwin–I will offer to prove by your
custom, then, that the company have a par-
ticular officer who goes to the party to find
out what his financial standing is.





186
OFFICIAL STE:NOGRAPHIC REPORT
Objected to as irrelevant and immaterial,
and not proper cross-examination.
The Court–Objection sustained on the
5..." that it is not proper cross-examina-
1On.
Mr. Erwin—I hold in my hand Exhibit
W-6, and ask you to please look at that—
what is that? A. That is a blank form of
assignment that is filled in blank used by
the New York Life Insurance Company to
assign policies.
Q. In your direct examination you testi-
fied that Miss Ging wanted you to make
an assignment to the Travelers' Life? A.
I think she made the request to me, to use
our form to draw for the Travelers' policy.
Q. You took a pen and drew through the
words “New York Life” and wrote above
it Travelers’ Accident?” A. Yes.
Q. And you drew the assignment in the
following words: “For value received I
hereby assign and transfer to Harry Hay-
ward, of Minneapolis, Minnesota, a policy
of insurance known as 1,169,430.” Who did
you get that number from ? A. From the
policy itself.
Q. She had the policy there? A. She did.
Q. Now, at that time, you say, there was
talk about a loan of $7,000, was there? A.
I am not certain as to that time or an-
other time. I think, though, it was that
time.
Q. These requests to make out this as-
signment of this policy were made by Cath-
erine Ging to you, in the presence of Hay-
ward? A. I am very certain they were,
yes, sir.
Q. Now, to refresh your recollection,
don’t you remember, do you remember,
that just prior to this time of the execu-
tion of these papers, there was talk by
Miss Ging with you, that there was $7,000
loan, and your policy was only $5,000, and
that you offered to get out another policy,
for $2,000? A. No, sir, there was no talk
of that kind. With me.
Q. Now, was Miss Ging hypnotized?
Objected to. Sustained.
Q. How did she act? A. Very natural,
indeed.
Q. What did you get an idea of, that she
was a good smart woman? A: I did.
Objected to as immaterial. Sustained.
Q. To whom did you deliver these as-
signments after they were made? A. I
stated before that I don't remember
whether it was Hayward or Miss Ging
handed back two policies in their hands at
that time.
Mr. Erwin–It is admitted that this is
the seal of the court, and that this is the
signature of the clerk, and the copy will
show the contents.
Q. Now, after this business was trans-
acted, and the assignments were delivered
to Miss Ging, when did you next see her?
A. I don’t think I ever saw her after that.
Frederick White
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your business, Mr. White? A.
Insurance business.
Q: What company are you connected
with? A. The New England Mutual Life.
Q. Do you know Mr. Hayward, the de-
fendant? A. I met him at the office about
Sept. 10. He said that he had loaned to a
woman $1,000; my impression is as to the
age was about 30, and he wanted to take
out $5,000 of insurance as security for his
loan, I told him the company was very
careful to establish an insurable interest in
any one, and especially a woman, and I
said that they would not assign a $5,000
policy to cover a loan of $1,000, but they
would assign $1,000 of that amount. He
said he did not care to have that, and he
could not see why he could not have it
all, especially if he paid the premium. I
told him there was no insurable interest
outside of the fact that he had loaned
$1,000. I understood he had made the loan
at that time, and I said that the company
would not assign a $5,000 policy to cover a
lien of $1,000; that they would assign
$1,000 as a lien against the policy. The con-
versation led up to insurable interests, and
he said he had been sent to us and he
asked what our rate was for $5,000 at such
an age. The reason I say it was about 30
years was because the rate was a little
over $100. He simply said he had been sent
to our office. During the conversation, he
spoke of the notes as brought out by Mr.
Hodge this morning. He asked how such
an insurable interest might be established.
Q. What did he mean by that, proven
after death? A. No, so far as the com-
pany was concerned in granting insurance,
and Mr. Hodge said that notes of even
date might be made out to cover the full
amount. -
Q. Even date with what? A. Well, even
date with the application—and that might
be recognized by the company as an insur-
able interest.
Q. Did or did not your company take
risks on the lives of women? A. They do.
Q. Do you remember whether anything
was said about the various companies that
took such risks and those that did not? A.
Nothing was said.
Q. Did Mr. Hayward ever call again to
see you about the life insurance? A. No,
S11”.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Has your company any different rules
as to insurable interests than the other
large companies of the country? A. I.
don’t know that they have any different
rules; they are a little more strict, perhaps.
Q. Did he ask your rates? A. He did.
Q. What kind of policy did you give him
a rate for? A. A straight life. No other
kind of policy was discussed. |
Q. But don’t you suppose if you had ex-
plained the different systems of insurance |
engaged in by your company, he might
have taken one of the other kinds of in-
Surance?
Mr. Hall–That is objected to as irrele-
vant and immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. What constitutes an insurable in-
terest, Mr. White? A. Where one is
depending upon one for for a support, or
taking insurance to cover a debt. That is
our company's attitude toward insurable
interests.
Clark we Little
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. What is your business, Mr. Little?
A. State agent for the Provident Savings
and Life, of New York.
Q. Whereabouts is your office? A. 600
and 601 Oneida Block.
Q. That is in the same building where
Mr. Hayward has his office? A. I sup-
pose S0.
Q. Do you know Mr. Hayward, the de-
fendant in this case? A. I do not.


OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
187
Q. Did you ever see him? A. Not until
I came into this court room.
Q. Did you ever have any conversation
with him? A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Did you know Miss Ging? A. I did
not. lasa
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now, you have got a lady clerk, have
you not, Mr. Little, in your office? A. The
company did have.
Q. What was her name?
Bates.
Q. Were you present at the conversation
between her and Mr. Hayward?
Mr. Nye—That is objected to as not cross-
examination. We have not asked him any-
thing for you to cross-examine him on.
The Court—He says he never saw Mr.
Hayward.
Mr. Erwin–Well, that is all.
John G. Purple.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your business, Mr. Purple?
A. Insurance agent for the Travelers' Life
and Accident Insurance Company. Know
Harry Hayward. I first saw him to know
him in our office the latter part of Novem-
ber some time.
Had you seen him previous to that
time? A. Yes, sir.
Where? A. In Miss Ging's shop on
the 20th of November 1ast.
Q. What time of day on the 25th did you
meet him in Miss Ging's rooms? A. I
think it was in the afternoon, some time
after dinner.
Q. That was in the rooms occupied by
Miss Ging in the Syndicate Block? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you have any conversation there
with Miss Ging in his presence? A. I had
with Miss Ging in his presence.
Q. What, if anything, was said there at
that time? A. I simply explained the na-
ture of the second accident policy that I
had delivered to her at that time as being
different from the one she had received
the day before.
Q. Had you previous to that time, as
agent for the company, written any in-
surance for Miss Ging? A. I wrote her a
policy the day before, on the 23d.
- (Witness shown policy marked Exhibit
‘W-3.”)
Q. I show you Exhibit “W-3” and I ask
you what it is? A. It is an accident policy
for $5,000 in the Travelers' Insurance Com-
pany, issued in our office, and written by
the Travelers' Insurance Company on Nov.
24, 1894.
Q. Now, is that the policy you referred
to as the one you had taken to her, or
is this the second policy that you re-
ferred to? A. This is the second policy.
Q: What is the nature of the first policy
to which you referred? A. The first policy
to which I referred was what we call an
annuity policy, written for $5,000, payable
$1,000 at death from accident, and $1,000
each remaining four years thereafter, of
five payments of $1,000 each.
A year part? A. Yes,
entire $5,000 was paid.
Q: What was said to her in the presence
of Mr. Hayward? A. T held this policy up
to Miss Ging, explaining that the payment
on this policy after death would be made
in one payment—one sum of $5,000—and that
A. Miss C. L.
sir until the
the weekly indemnity ran 26 weeks instead
of 52, as in the former policy. I took up the
former policy and cancelled it.
Q. Had it been delivered to Miss Ging
on the previous day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recall anything further said
by Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir. She explained
to me on the morning of the 24th, as I have
called in there on other insurance business,
as the first policy was an annuity policy,
if it would not be better for her to have
a policy like you have in your hand—that
is, a policy where the whole amount, the
entire sum in full, would be paid at death.
I told her it depended entirely upon what
she wanted it for; I told her if she wanted
it to pay her family with, or to pay some
one an income of $1,000 a year, it was good
enough. But if she wanted it for any other
purpose she had better have the kind of
policy I explained to her, paying the en-
tire sum at one time. She then told me
she intended to borrow $7,000 and wanted to
use this as collateral security for the loan.
She said that she though that $5,000 payable
in one sum at her death would be better
as security than the other policy. And I
took her application for that kind of policy
and wrote it up and brought it in later in
the day.
Q. When did you next see Mr. Hay-
ward? A. Some time the next week; I
don’t know but what it was Wednesday
or Thursday of the next week. He came
to our office in the Boston Block with a
New York Life policy, our own policy, and
what seemed to be an assignment of the
policy. He laid them on the desk, referred
to them as to what they were. I inferred
that I was to look at them. I picked up
the New York Life policy and looked it
over a little and laid it down again. I
believe the assignment was left there at
that time. I asked him if he had any in-
surance on his life. I believe I received a
negative reply; I did not talk to him much;
scarcely any. I told him I was going to
try and write some life insurance on Miss
Ging. Nothing said about that.
Q. I show you exhibit “W-1;” what is
that? A. That is a receipt for the extra.
$5 she paid me for the new policy. I told
her that the new policy would cost $5
more.
Q. And exhibit “W-4;” what is that? A.
That is the receipt for the first $20 on the
first policy.
Q. And these two sums together make
the annual premium on this policy, ex-
hibit “W-3?” A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, the application for the assign-
ment thrown on your desk by Mr. Hay-
ward; I will ask you if that exhibit “W-6”
is the same one or bears any resemblance
to it? A. I believe it is; I paid very little
attention to it; I merely saw some one had
written in the Travelers' Insurance Com-
pany there, but I laid it down on the desk
without any comment.
Q. I now show you exhibit “W-8” and
ask you if you know what that is? A. It
is what we call an assault clause that we
issue with all our accident policies.
Q. Do you know when that was issued
by your company, and from where? A. It
was issued from Hartford. The applica-
tion is made for it once a week by our
office and what applications we receive
that week, these assault clauses are sent




188
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
a week later and we send them on each
week; the applications.
Q. Is that sent direct to the insured or
direct to your office? A. Direct to our
office and re-mailed or delivered to the in-
sured.
Q. Now, have you ever had any further
conversation with Mr. Hayward in regard
to this life insurance since the date you
mentioned? A. Yes, sir. It was on Wed-
nesday, the Wednesday following Miss
Ging's death, I believe, in the afternoon. I
was with a friend on the corner of First
avenue south and Fourth street, and Mr.
Hayward came along and I stepped up
and shook hands with him. I told him he
was having a pretty hard racket. He said:
“Yes, I have told them all I know and
cannot tell them any more.” I said: “You
have had a pretty hard shake-down here.”
Something to that effect. “I suppose you
know you are not obliged to submit to
anything of that kind?” He said: “Yes,
but I have told them all I know.” Then
he said to me: “What steps shall I take
to get that insurance money?” I hesitated
a moment and I said: “That is a matter
between you and our company;” and I
left him without any further remark.
The Court–To whom did you mail or de-
liver that writing in the policy? (Referring
to the assault case.) A. It was mailed
from our office by someone in the office,
the bookkeeper or someone else, to Miss
Ging.
Mr. Erwin–In connection with that I hand
you an envelope, and state whether you
recognize the handwriting or not? A. I
think I do.
Mr. Erwin–Whose writing is it? A. I
think it is Mr. F. E. Crary’s, a gentleman
in the office.
Mr. Erwin–What time was it mailed 2 A.
I cannot tell you, sir.
Mr. Erwin–You can refresh your memory
by referring to the postmark. A. I see that
the postmark is Dec. 1, 2 o’clock p. m.
Mr. Erwin–I will have this marked in
connection with this testimony, and we will
offer it in evidence.
Mr. Nye-We have no objection.
(The envelope was here marked exhibit
W8.)
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now, I will ask you to state whether
in accordance with your business customs,
you had ever called at Miss Ging's rooms
in the Syndicate Block and solicited life
and accident insurance from her? A. Yes,
sir, I have. The first of the summer of
1893, again early in the spring, the follow-
ing spring. She told me on this occasion,
in the first instance, that she would like
the accident insurance, but was not quite
ready for it then, that she would let me
know when she wanted it. I called there
last in May or in June last, and she gave
me practically the same answer.
Q. Now, when next did you see her—was
it Nov. 23 on returning to your office—when
were you next informed by anybody that
she wanted insurance? A. I met Mr. Crary
on the street, I think, late in the afternoon
of the 23d, and he told me that an appoint-
ment had been made for me to go to her
office to write insurance.
Q. Had Mr. Crary made an appointment
for you to meet her at any place, and, if so,
where? A. He did, at her shop, as soon as
I could receive the word. And I went to
Miss Ging's shop between 5 and 6 o'clock
on the afternoon of the 23d of November.
She told me she had decided to take out
some accident insurance, and stated then
that she preferred the two premium policy,
and she made an application for an annuity
policy, as I have stated, and I went back to
the office and wrote it and delivered it to
her that night. She gave me a check for
$20. I think it was on the First National
Bank.
Q. Now, did you call on her the next
day? A. I did, to talk about life insur-
ance to her; to see if I could get a policy
of life insurance from her. That is, a pol-
icy of life insurance as distinguished from
accident insurance. She gave me permis-
sion to write her a sample policy of life
insurance, which I did sometime following
that.
Q. Did you not explain to her the terms
of this accident policy, and where in case
of death from accident the whole annount
is payable in one sumº A.. I believe that
was spoken of at one time.
Q. And she asked you which was the bet-
ter one, and you told her if it was simply
for relatives, or an income of a thousand
dollars, it would be the best and it would
cost $5 less? And you also explained the
weekly indemnity was different; one run-
ning 52 weeks and the other 26? A. I did.
Q. Did you explain to her that for busi-
ness purpose the other plan might be bet-
ter, and telling her the cost of the other
would be $5 more? A. I did. I told her
any one borrowing money from her might
prefer the policy as security, which re-
quired the payment of the whole sum at
once in full.
Q. Now, did she not tell you she was
going to change and increase her business
and was going to make a loan of $7,000?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That she had been intending to take
out $7,000 in life insurance, but that the cost
in the New York Life was so great she
had taken out only $5,000, and so she had
taken out this $5,000 accident policy, think-
ing that would be as well as $2,000 of life
insurance? A. About that.
Q. And you asked her why she did not
let you write the life insurance, and she
said she did not know you wrote life in-
surance, only accident? A. Yes, sir, that
is correct.
Q. Well, did she decide at that time to
change for a policy where the sum would
be payable in one amount? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you took the application and
went to your office and wrote up the pol-
icy and carried it back to her on Wednes-
day, the 24th 2 A. Yes, sir, Wednesday, the
24th. -
Q. And there she paid you $5 extra over
and above the cost of the old plan? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when you took the policy over
and she paid you the $5 extra, then is the
time Mr. Hayward was sitting in her room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And he appeared to be quite at home.
sitting there easy and pleasant, didn't heº
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was not present when she debated
with you the change of the character of
the policy, but was there when you carried
it over and delivered it to her? A. I did
not see him there at any other time.


OF THE HAY WARD MURDER
TRIAL.
Q. Now, the first of the next week, did
Miss Ging come to your office and inquire
as to the assignment of the policy, either
of you or Mr. Crary” A. She came over
and inquired as to the assignment. I spoke
to Mr. Crary about it and Mr. Crary ex-
plained to her that that was a matter in
which we took no part, that that was a
matter between the insured and the as-
signee.
Q. And didn't she ask you if the com-
pany had blanks; blank forms of assign-
ments, and didn't Mr. Crary tell her he
hadn't any? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, on the 28th of that month Mr.
Hayward brought in an assignment of a
policy on one of the New York Life Com-
opening statement much stress was laid
pany's blanks and laid it down on the
table? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And Mr. Crary sent it to the home
office? A. It was sent by some one to the
home office.
Q. Now, as to the slips waiving for-
feiture, and so forth, let me ask you if at
the local office these slips are issued 2 A.
We do not.
Now, explain to the jury, so they will
understand it, how these slips are issued
and when they are issued and how long
after the policy is issued and who they are
sent to, and if they are sent to you what
do you do with them, whether you mail
them or not—what did you do in this case?
Mr. Hall–That has all been gone into
before. -
Mr. Erwin–I will go into it myself.
The Court—If there is anything new he
has not stated, call his attention to it;
we can’t try the case over twice—call his
attention to it.
Mr. Erwin–This is cross-examination.
The Court—Yes, I know it is, but if there
is any disposition on the part of the wit-
ness not to tell the truth, I will allow it.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, in the
on this.
The Court—I didn’t pay much attention to
the opening statement.
Mr. Erwin–I noticed that your honor did
not pay much attention to it. (Laughter.)
Q. Well, be brief, Mr. Purple? A. The
accident policies are not written to cover
intentional injuries inflicted by the insured
or any other person, but this clause is
written to change that provision to cover
injuries committed by burglaries, thieves
and such like. And this clause is written
on a special slip, such as you have here,
and all the applications received for ac-
cident insurance during the week go to
Hartford every Saturday, with the under-
standing that slips will be sent for each
policy, and they are mailed to us and they
get back in seven or eight days; we regis-
ter them properly and mail them to the
parties insured.
Q. Now, in this case, was it in the due
course of business and at no special re-
quest that these came to your office? A.
In due course of business and without
any special request.
Q. What time did this slip get to your
office? A. I don't remember. It would
take about three days to go to Hartford.
Q. On that day, how many did you de-
liver of these slips? A. Well, six, eight
or ten, whatever it happens to be.
Q. Then this slip in question was not de-
livered by virtue of any special request of
Mr. Hayward to make this policy one to
cover murder or robbery, suicide or any-
thing of that kind? A. No, sir.
Q. It was delivered according to the or-
dinary custom of your company with every
policy and in the due course of business?
A. Yes, sir.
F. E. Crary
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are the general agent of the
Travelers' Life and Acéident Insurance
Company? A. I am the agent.
Q. You know Mr. Hayward, the defend-
ant in this case? A: I have met him. My
first recollection of meeting him was in his
rather’s office.
Q. You remember of his calling at the
office at any time while you were there?
A. He did at one time during the summer.
Q. In regard to insurance? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did that conversation relate to life
or accident insurance. A. Accident insur-
ance only.
Q. Can you recollect any part of the con-
versation 2 A. No, sir. The conversation
wholly with me and Mr. Hayward, but I
cannot recollect the words that were used.
He asked me in relation to accident insur-
ance, and I explained accident insurance to
him in a general way. We talked for some-
thing like a half hour, and what questions
were asked covered very largely the whole
matter of accident insurance. He did not
give his name, and I don’t recollect that I
ever saw him before. I didn't ask him why
he came there—I didn’t ask him why he
made the inquiries, and he went out of the
office, and that is all there was to it.
Q. Do you remember when he called
again at your office? A. I can’t recollect
the day, but I fix it in my mind as the day
I read the papers that he was arrested.
He asked me if he could get blanks for
proof of loss—that might not have been the
exact words he used, but that was the
thought he gave me. I told him I could
get blanks for proof of loss. He asked me
how soon they could be gotten; I said
about eight days. I told him I did not
think I would request the company to send
blanks for proof of loss—I did not think it
was advisable under the condition of
things. I told him the company probably
would not hurry to pay the loss under the
conditions. Well, there was something more
said—probably hadn’t better take any steps
for a proof of loss, something of that kind,
further said it was not advisable. It was
the day that he was arrested, or I under-
stand that he was arrested, or I read in the
papers that he was arrested.
Q. (Witness shown Exhibit W-9.) Is that
envelope in your handwriting? A. It is.
Mr. Erwin–What did you enclose in that
envelope? A. The assault clause.
Q. That is the clause Exhibit W-82 A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–You mailed that assault
clause in that envelope to Miss Ging? A.
Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Can you state about what time it
was mailed; you can look at the envelope
and refreh your memory in regard to that?
A. Well, I see the post mark, but that is
routine business and I could not tell you.








190 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. Well, the post mark is Dec. 1, 2 p. m. 2
A. Yes, sir; that is the post mark.
Q. Then, it was certainly on that day,
as appears from the post mark? A. It
appears So.
Q. Now, Mr. Hayward was in doubt as
to how much time he had to make his
claim when he called upon you for proof
of loss. Did he ask you how much time he
had within which to make the claim? A.
Yes, I think he did. He said he did not
know.
Q. And he wanted to do whatever, was
necessary to protect his interests in this
policy? A. That seemed to be idea en-
tirely.
Q. And you informed him under the cir-
cumstances you would not request the
company to make proof, but he would have
plenty of time? A. I might have said so,
but I don’t recollect that I said it in that
way, that he would have plenty of time.
Q. Didn’t you give him to understand
that he would not lose anything, any of his
rights, by not making immediate proof?
A. I think I did; I recollect now. The
only thing that seemed peculiar was he
didn't say who he was, and the conversa-
tion started in this way: He asked for a
proof of loss, and I said “Catherine Jing,”
and he corrected me and he said “Cather-
ine Ging matter.”
Q. Well, sir, the assignment of the policy
had been delivered at your office before
that, from Catherine Ging to him? A.
Well, there was an assignment there, but
I did not know whether it was to him or
not.
Q. Well, the assignment had been deliv-
ered and he had a right to suppose you
knew all about it? A. Yes, sir; I suppose
he did.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Was this policy of insurance, Exhibit
“W-3,” in force at the time of Catherine
Ging's death? A. Yes, sir, it was.
George N. Baker
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are engaged in what business?
A. Insurance business. The Travelers, of
Hartford.
Q. Do you know Mr. Hayward, the de-
fendant? A. I never had an introduction
to him; no, sir.
Q. You know him when you see him? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Were you ever present at a conversa-
tion in the office of the Travelers' Insur-
ance Company, in regard to insurance, be-
tween Mr. Hayward and Mr. Crary? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Can you recollect the substance of
what that conversation was 2 A. I cannot;
I have tried, but I cannot.
Q. With whom was that conversation
carried on, yourself or with Mr. Crary? A.
Mr. Crary and Mr. Hayward; I was merely
sitting in the office at another desk.
Q. Can you recollect any of the circum-
stances or substance of the conversation,
Mr. Baker? A. Well, I don't know as I
can, except Mr. Crary did not ask him his
reasons for asking these questions, that is
all.
Q. The conversation lasted some time?
A. Perhaps a half hour.
Q. Did you have any other conversation,
or were you within hearing distance, when
one was carried on between Mr. Hayward
and anybody else? A. Well, I met him in
the office there when I was alone.
Q. When was that? A. I don't know the
exact date. It was the day he came in
there to get the assignment, or to inquire
about the assignment of the policy.
Q. Can you fix anywheres near when
that day was, Mr. Baker? A. Somewheres
about the latter part of November.
Q. What was the conversation at that
time? A. Well, he came in and asked if
Mr. Purple was there, I think, and I said
he was not. Then he said that he wanted
some one; he wanted to inquire if an as-
signment written on a New York Life
blank, changing the words “New York
Life” to the “Travelers,” was all right in
making the assignment, and I told him,
well, I was about to tell him that I did
not know anything about it, as I never
saw any assignment papers in the office
before, and just then Mr. Purple came in
and he turned around and spoke to him,
and I walked out of the office for some
reason, out into the hall, and they were
in there, I suppose, talking about those
papers.
Q. And you cannot remember any other
occasion? A. That is all.
Mr. Erwin–We have no cross-examina-
tion, if the court please.
Charles W. Bliler
sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. What is your business, Mr. Bliler? A.
I am resident manager of the Preferred,
of New York; Preferred Accident.
Q. That company issues policies of in-
surance; accident insurance? A. Yes, sir,
to business men only preferred.
Q. It limits the character of its risks? A.
Yes, sir, as its name would indicate.
Q. Do you know Mr. Hayward? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. How long have you known Mr. Hay-
ward? A. Since July last, I think.
Q. When was it you first had any trans-
action with him in regard to insurance?
A. Saturday, Sept. 1, 1894. As near as I can
recall it; it was about 4:30 in the after-
1100m.
Mr. Erwin–Now, may it please the court,
is this in reference to Miss Ging's life in-
surance?
Mr. Hall–It is in reference to the policy
of insurance which he took out, with Miss
Ging as beneficiary.
Mr. Erwin–Well, that is objected to.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Go on. A. Well, as I entered the of:
fice he was talking to my stenographer in
regard to insurance; he had an application
in his hands, one of our blanks, and the
young lady also had a blank; and they
were discussing the matter, and I believe
there was some difference about the condi-
tion; one of my former agents agreed to
write him and waived the policy fee, and
he decided to go out, inasmuch as Mr.
Brewster, who had agreed to write the
insurance, was not there; and about that
time I entered and he asked me about it
and I told him that was customary as a
part of the agent's commission, and I told
him that inasmuch as Mr. Brewster had
agreed to waive that, I would do so, and
place it to his credit; and I proceeded to
write the policy; and when I asked him
the name of the beneficiary, he named Miss
Catherine Ging, and I asked what relation
she was to him; he said that made no
































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 191
difference; I told him it did; that the in-
surance laws do not care to name a bene-
ficiary unless they had an insurable inter-
est; and I said to him: “What is she;
your affianced wife?” And he said: “No;
make it friend.” So I made it “Friend.”
And so in writing the receipt he left the
office, went out of the office and rang the
elevator bell, in front of the entrance, and
returned shortly; I don’t remember
whether the elevator came up or not; I
suppose it did. And he asked me to write
on the back of the receipt that Miss Cath-
erine Ging was the beneficiary named in
the said insurance applied for.
Q. Do you recognize that? (Witness
shown paper.) A. Yes, sir. That is the
original receipt—or it is a copy of the
original.
Q. Written at the same time and as a
duplicate of what was then gave him? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Hall–We will offer this receipt in
evidence.
Mr. Erwin–We have no objection—that is
only the general objection we make.
The Court–Oh, well, it is competent to
show the relation between the parties; that
is all.
Mr. Erwin–We will only make the gen-
eral objection and take an exception.
Q. Was there any further conversation
in regard to this policy of insurance, or in
regard to the beneficiary 2 A. No, sir;
not at that time, as he was in a hurry
and he left. I believe he was going away
that night.
Q. Did you subsequently have any con-
versation with him 2 - A. did.
Q. When was that? A. Dec. 3, at 11:45,
in his office at the Oneida building.
Q. You may state what was said and
done then.
Mr. Erwin–The same objection, immate-
rial and irrelevant.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Go on. A. I entered his office on
Dec. 3, as I stated, for the purpose of re-
newing the policy; he was sitting at the
window to the right as you enter, and
was reading, I think, an application—if I
remember correctly, it was an application
in the form of a New York Life policy, a
New York Life form 1 and 2, and I re-
marked as I entered, “Are you taking some
more life insurance, Mr. Hayward?” And
he said “No.” And in an ordinary chair
to the right were two policies, one in the
Travelers and one in the New York Life.
I went around by the chair, and as I pass-
ed. I picked up the policy in the New York
Life and I remember of seeing the name
mentioned in the application which he
gave us in our company, and I laid the pol-
icy down and asked him to excuse me for
being so inquisitive. And then I asked him
to renew his policy; and he said he did
not care for it. And I proceeded to argue
the matter with him, and asked him if it
was not just as good that day as it was
the day before. And I was satisfied he
had re-insured elsewhere. Of course, it
didn't make any difference. The matter
came up in this way, that he had given it
to another agent that he had formerly in-
tended to give it to, but he had subse-
quently changed to another company. And
he asked me then about the liability of an
accident policy, wanted to know what was
considered an accident. For instance, he
said, “Supposing I jump out of the win-
dow, is that considered an accident?” “Not
under the terms and conditions of an acci-
dent policy, I don’t think.” “Well,” he
said, “supposing the fire department runs
up around the corner here, and I run up to
the window to see where the fire is, and I
fall out?” That, I said, would be an acci-
dent, pure and simple. Then he wanted
to know, “Supposing I fell down from the
elevator or was pushed down,” whether
that was an accident, and it was time for
me to go, and I told him it all depended
upon the circumstances, and as I had no
case to decide I would leave the matter
until we had something of that kind to
decide. That was the extent of our con-
versation.
Q. Did or did not he renew the insurance
for the benefit of Miss Ging? A. No, he
told me he had taken it with another
agent.
Q. Who with? A. Mr. Fred Brewster, in
the Standard, of Detroit, as he is in their
agent's employ.
Q. Now, at the time of taking the first
insurance, was anything further said by
way of explanation of this receipt? A. No,
Slr.
Q. Or any explanation of why he wanted
you to put that on the receipt? A. No, sir.
Q. Anything further said by you? A.
No, sir; it was a request easy to comply
with, and I did not think it would affect
the insurance in any way, make it worse or
better.
Q. Did he at any time explain to you
why he wanted you to put that on the re-
ceipt? A. No, sir; it was not any of my
business, and I did not ask him. -
Q. Did you ever have any further talk
with him in regard to insurance? A. Oc-
tober, I believe at the time of the fair, he
asked me a few questions in regard to a
certain company, and I asked him if the in-
surance was for himself, and he stated no.
And I think that was about all he said.
And he pulled out an application, or some
literature of a certain company, and asked
me what I thought of it.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Did you tell him you had your life in-
sured before you were married? A. No, sir.
Q. That you had your life insured in
favor of your wife before you were mar-
ried ?
Mr. Nye–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial, and not cross-ex-
anmination.
The Court–Objection overruled.
A. Well, I don’t remember that.
Q. Well, didn't you tell him that you had
had your life insured before you were mar-
ried? A. No, sir.
Q. Or your life insured for your wife be-
fore you were married? A. No, sir. I
stated that in 1885 or 1886 I had taken a
policy and named a friend as a beneficiary,
which I did.
Q. That you had named a friend as bene-
ficiary? A. Yes, sir.
And when you stated to him that you
had done that and that it was satisfactory
to the company he told you to put this
name in, “friend?” A. Yes, sir.
B. H. Gilbert
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.








192 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. What is your business? A. Life in-
surance.
Q. You are agent for what company? A.
the Bay State, of Westfield, Mass., at the
present time.
Q. You know Harry Hayward? A. Yes,
S11".
Q. Did you at any time in the month of
November last have a conversation with
him in regard to insurance? A. I did. In
Mr. Gettleson's jewelry store, in Temple
Court. On Wednesday, the 28th of Novem-
ber.
Q. Had you known Harry Hayward prior
to that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. For how long 2 A. Personally for
about 11 years.
Q. You may state the conversation that
occurred at the time you indicate? A. l.
went into Mr. Gettleson's to see him in re-
gard to a real estate transaction.
The Court—Well, no matter what you
went in there for. A. Well, that is a part
of the matter, leading up to the conversa-
tion—you don’t want that part?
Q. Whatever leads up to the conversa-
tion in regard to the insurance? A. Well,
Harry Hayward came in and he says to me
“That is right, Gilbert, insure his life.”
And I said, “We are not talking insur-
ance, but real estate.” And as we had fin-
ished our conversation in connection with
the real estate, I stepped over from Mr.
Gittleson on the outside of the show case,
and Mr. Gittleson remained on the inside—
we greeted Harry, and I told him, I said:
“It is about time that you gave me that
application which I have solicited a great
many times.” And he stated that he did
not want any life insurance because he
was not married and he would not take out
any until he was. He then said he wanted
to ask me some questions in regard to the
assignment of life insurance policies, and
I told him to proceed. He stated he was
about making a loan to a friend of his
who was going to start in business on
Nicollet avenue, and the party—he did not
say whether it was male or female, sim-
play said “party”—had taken out a life in-
surance policy and was going to sign it to
him as collateral for the loan. He said he
did not consider the security sufficient with-
out the policy—still it might be so con-
sidered. I asked him what company the
policy was in. And he said in the New
York Life. I asked him if it was a wife's
policy, and he said no. I said “How is it
made payable, to self,” or how it was. And
he said he had the policy in his pocket.
And we talked over the various ways of
assigning a policy, and he then pulled out
a policy in blank, not filled out, and asked
me if that blank was sufficient for a sisgn-
ment. I looked it over and told him no.
because there was no consideration named
in the blank itself, that it ought to have
written at its head, “For and in considera-
tion of one dollar.” He stated that his at-
torney had told him that the blank was
all right as it was. I made the remark
then that if it was satisfactory to hiºn
and his attorney it surely was to me. e
then wanted to know of me if a party
holding a policy in any company was in a
building and the building burned down and
the insured was burned up, or the remains
were so badly burned that they could not
be recognized, if the company would pay
the claim. I told him that the company
would require positive identification of the
remains—positive identification that the re-
mains found were the remains of the in-
sured. I then alluded to the fire which
occurred at Oshkosh, Wis., a little over a
year ago, where a party holding a policy
in the Mutual Life, of New York, and
some other company, was supposed to be
burned in the fire, there was some remains
found, but not the remains of the insured—
I told him that circumstance. I stated to
him a further calamity, as to the burning
of a hotel, bodies were burned up, but the
claims were paid, because the bodies were
known to have been in the building.
I think I also referred to the Johnstown
flood–I was representing the New York
Mutual at that time, and I understand
they paid claims, although the bodies were
never found—they were satisfied that they
were drowned, and even the policies were
themselves washed away. He then asked
me if a party insured in any company, if
they were murdered, if the company would
pay the claim. I stated that the fact that
the insured was murdered would not re-
lease the company, that they would be
paid if the remains were identified. I was
standing at the time to his right, and I
passed around to his left near the door,
and as I passed around he referred to the
Pitzel case, at Philadelphia; I told him I
did not know much about that.
Q. What did he say about the Pitzel af-
fair? A. Well, I don't know; he referred
to the case. I think it was a $10,000 policy
in the Fidelity.
Q. Did he refer to it by name or–? A.
Simply the affair. And I did not know
anything about it, because I have never
seen a full report of the case. And that is
all there was to it. I bid him good-night
and left.
Q. What did he say about the Pitzel af-
fair? A. He merely alluded to it as an
attempt by some parties to do the com-
pany up. And I think that is the entire
conversation.
Q. Have you been familiar with the case
to which he referred? A. No, I merely
noticed it in the paper that there was a
murder there, and the murderer was ar-
rested.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. In whose store was this?
Temple Court, ground floor.
Q. Did Gettleson join in the conversation?
A. He did.
What started the conversation first?
A.. I started the conversation by making
the remark that I had not yet taken his
application, and then he stated he wanted
to ask me this question.
Q. Was there anything unusual in the
inquiries Harry made to you? A. No, not
particularly.
You have them addressed to you in
every quarter when you are soliciting in-
Surance? A. I have had similar ques-
tions; I have had parties ask me if they
were murdered if the company would pay
the claim.
Q. Suicide? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in regard to the non-forfeiture -
clause? A. Yes, sir.
Q. This conversation was open? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. No secret? A. None at all.
A. The












OF THE HAYWARD
MURDER TRIAL. 193
Q. Mr. Gittleson participated in it? A.
Yes, sir somewhat.
Q. And he informed you at the time he
had made a loan 2 A. He said he was
about to make a loan; I did not under-
stand that he had made a loan—that he
was about to make a loan.
Q. He said he had the policy in his
pocket? A. He did. He only spoke of the
New York Life.
Q. Nothing private about it, one way or
the other? A. No, sir, not at all.
Q. Did Mr. Gittleson mention about his
policy? A. Yes, sir, he mentioned about the
policy he had in the United States Life.
Q. He went and got it? A. Yes, sir, went
and got it out of a tin box and we discussed
it, that is, during the conversation there.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m., Feb. 13, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 13,
Simon Gittleson.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Are you in the jewelry business? A.
Jewelry and broker.
Q. Do you know Harry T. Hayward, the
defendant? A. Yes. Have known him about
three years. I used to do some business
with him.
Q. Calling your attention to a time in the
early part of November, I will ask you if
you had a business transaction with him at
that time. A. I did.
Q. At that time did you have a conversa-
tion with him in regard to money. A. I
think I did,
Q. Can you give the date, or the date of
that transaction and conversation? A. On
the 9th day of November. Harry came in
on the 9th day of November. He says, “Git-
tleson, I will need some money; I want
some money just now,” and I says, “How
much do you want.” He handed me out
some diamonds, and I says, “I can let you
have about $170 on those.” He says, “All
right.” He says, “I am not broke; I am go-
ing to make a loan to a certain party, or
a friend of mine”—I don’t exactly remem-
ber which way—‘‘and I will need some more
money.” In the meantime he puts his hand
in his pocket and shows me—he says, “You
see, I am not broke,” and he shows me
aackages of bills, and they were wrapped
around with paper, the same as if you take
them out of the bank, the same as if you
º going to the bank—something similar
o it.
Q. Did you see the denominations of the
bills? A. I did not.
Q. Did he take the bills from his pocket?
A. They were in packages put together,
and he just pulled them out, not much, so
I could see and pushed them right back
again.
Q: What chattels did he put up that time?
A. Three diamond rings, one weighing
about two carats, and one a carat and
three-quarters, and one diamond ring con-
taining three diamond stones. -
Q. At or about what time had Harry put
up with you any other ring? A. On the 8th
day of October he left one gent's diamond
ring also. It was one solitaire stone in a
kind of fancy mounting; a meavier mount-
ing than the rest of them.
Q. Do you know whose ring that was
he brought you on the 8th? A: I do not.
Did Harry say anything to you about
whose it was: A. He did not.
Q. Had you ever seen that ring before?
A. Yes, sir. I had seen all of them. I
guess.
Q. Had you ever had any loan transac-
tion with Miss Ging? A. I did not have
any loan, but I had some conversation
with her.
Q. Had you any conversation with Mr.
Hayward in regard to the loan for Miss
Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When was that? A. I could not
state the time. It was during the middle
of the summer.
Q. , Had you any conversation after the
middle of the summer? A. Only had one
conversation with Miss Ging.
Q. I mean with Harry. In regard to the
Miss Ging loanº A. No, sir.
Q. What was that talk with Harry, what
did you say? A. Harry told me, or asked
me, a friend of his wanted to get some
money. He did not say on what it was,
and he gave me a card to go up to the
syndicate Block, and he stated a number
on the fourth or fifth floor, and I shall in-
quire for Miss Ging. I went up there and
a lady came out and I handed her that
card. I said, “Harry sent me to you, that
you want to see me in regard to a loan.”
She took me in a private room, and she
showed me that she loaned money on a mill
somewheres that she holds a mortgage,
that she would like to get five or six hun-
dred dollars on it. I told her, “I am not
making that kind of loans,” that I am only
loaning on collateral security. She did not
talk much to me at all; and she went
away and I went away.
Q. Yes, do you remember a conversation
at one time when Mr. Gilbert was present
in your office? A. Yes, sir. I had a con-
versation with Mr. Gilbert, insurance
agent. Harry came in and Mr. Gilbert
started to talk with Harry, and they were
talking in regard to insurance policy.
Harry asked him some question, and Mr.
Gilbert answered him some; I did not pay
much attention to it. Parties coming in
the store, customers of mine, and in the
meantime I would attend to them, and
they were talking together.
Q. Did Harry have any business trans-
actions with you on that day? A. He did
after Mr. Gilbert went away.
Q: What was that? A. He had left a
goid watch and chain there, and I think he
stayed around there for quite a while until
Gilbert went away, and then he took that
watch and chain out and went away.
Q. when had he left the watch and
chain with you? A. That was the day be-
fore.
Q. How much did he get on the watch
and chain? A. $40. -
Q. When, if ever, did Harry take away
or take up either of the rings that you
have mentioned?
The Court—When were they left—what
date? A. Left on the 26th of November,
1894.
Mr. Hall–Did you understand the ques-
tion? A. That was on the 27th that Gil-
bert was in the store, and he took the
watch out.
Mr. Hall—The wach was taken out the
day after it was put in? A. Right; the
day after it was put in.
Q. When, if at all, was either of the
rings taken up by Harry that you first re-



194 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
ferred toº A. The 24th day of November.
Q. Had you a conversation with Harry
at that time in regard to the rings? A.
We had some talk. He says, “Gittleson,”
he says, “I have made the ring with the
three stones, I have made it a present to
a young lady.” That is all. He did not
say anything more.
Q. Did he pay up anything on the ring 2
A. Yes, sir; $25; and took that up.
Q. Did he tell you who the young lady
was 2 A. No, sir.
CROSS EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. All that I want to ask you is, about
on Nov. 9th, at the time that he put these
rings in pawn and you gave $175 on them, was
it $160 on them and $10 interest? A. No,
S11”.
Q. “I am not broke"—what did he say,
tell the jury what he done; whether he
took money out of his pocket, or whether
he showed you what it was? A. He says,
“I am not broke,” and he takes out a lot
of bills, “but I need more money to make
a loan with to a friend of mine.”
Q. How much money would you say
there was in the roll or packages of bills
he took out? A. I could not tell; they
were done up the same as you go to the
bank, and you get a certificate of deposit,
and they hand you out all ready packages,
counting out the same as in a bank,
wrapped around with white wraps.
Q. You have no way of telling how
much there was—was there a large
amount? A. I could not tell. There was
quite a lot of packages.
Q. About how thick were they; tell the
jury how thick the packages were? A. You
can measure yourself. Well, it was rather
hard for him to shove it back in his
pocket.
Q. Now, I suppose you would know, Mr.
Gittleson, that Harry has been in the
habit of playing cards? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And hasn’t it been quite frequent
that he would come to you and pawn his
watch or pawn some jewelry, had he lost
his ready cash the night before or during
the day? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Come to you for a stake, as they call
it, and pawn? A. He would come in and
get lucky money. -
Q. He would come to you to pawn
things for the purpose of getting what he
called lucky money? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Tell the jury about that? A. Harry
would come in sometimes, and wanted to
know, wanted to get $100 or $150 or some-
times $200, whatever it may be, and he
would generally ask me if I had money
that I think it is lucky.
Peter Vallery
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q: What is your business? A. Hack
driver.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward? A.
Yes, sir.
Did you know Miss Ging during her
life time? A. I cannot say that I did until
after she was dead. I have seen her once
that I know.
Q. I will ask you if at any time during
the month of July, or about that time, '94,
you had any particular conversation with
him at or near the Ozark? A. Yes, sir. It
was in the morning between 4 and 5 o'clock,
inside the carriage. I was hauling Mr.
Hayward.
Q. How long had you hauled him that
night or morning? A. Well, I could not
just exactly tell. About two and a half or
three hours, somewhere along there.
Q. Had he any other person with him
during that ride? A. He had, but he was
not with him then.
Q. Now, what time did you reach the
Ozark? A. About 4 o'clock in the morning.
Q. How long did you remain there at the
time of this conversation that occurred in
the hack? A. One-half or three-quarters
of an hour.
º Were you both inside of the hack? A.
es.
Q. State to the court and jury what was
said in that conversation—what Harry said
to you?
Mr. Erwin–I don’t know what the sub-
ject matter is, and I will object to it as im-
material and irrelevant.
The Court—I don’t know; go on.
Mr. Nye-It may be that I ought to state
to the judge privately in your hearing what
the nature of it is. I will do so.
(Mr. Nye here went up to the court, also
Mr. Erwin, and stated what he wished to
show.)
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial, ir-
relevant and in no way identified with this
case or can be; and that it is distinctly
stated that it is not expected to be identi-
fied with any of the persons connected with
this case, except the defendant; that it is
an attack upon character, and a criminal
question from which improper deductions
as to the character of the defendant was
drawn.
The Court–Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Mr. Nye-Go on now, and state what he
said to you at that time? A. Well, he was
questioning me in regard to my conscience,
if I done any deeds, or anything like that,
Would my conscience bother ne
afterwards. I told him. it. would.
He did not mention what the deed was.
He asked me different things, and I could
not hardly understand what he wanted to
get at. He asked me about driving into
the lake, with a party in a hack—he did not
say what—he did not say who it was, man
or woman, or what, and turned off and let
the team go and come out. I told him I
was no swimmer. He wanted to know if
the team was fractious. I told him they
were supposing they would start them
and turn them loose, pull them off to the
bluff, something like that, would it be apt.
to do the whole rig up? I told him it
would. He asked me what I would take
for the rig. I told him. He asked me if I
cared what was done with the rig after
he had it. I told him no, it was immaterial
to me.
Q. Anything further occur to you con-
cerning this? A. Well, he spoke to me once
before, wanted to know if I did not want
to make some money, but he did not state
how I was to make it. That was at the
Union Depot.
Q. This conversation at the Ozark which
you say lasted half or three-quarters of an
hour, what further can you recall that
was said. Was it an argument about
whether you should do it or not, or whether
your conscience troubled you? A: There
was a question to see whether my con-
science would bother me if I done some









OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 195
deed or other. That was all the way I
looked at it.
Q. Was there any other deed mentioned
than the drowning of a person, or the let-
ting of the team run away, as you have
described? A. That was one supposition,
that was just merely asked for informa-
tion, which I could not give.
Q. Well, what did you tell him in regard
to telling him anything further? A: I told
him in regard to anything like that that I
would not have nothing to do with any-
thing that would injure anybody or kill
them, not if I knew it.
Q. Was there anything said by him as
to the place which you could drive off? A.
No, sir.
Q. Well, I will ask you, then, if he men-
tioned any place? A. No place in particu-
lar. Only he sugegsted one place, that is
at Lake Calhoun, uhe bluff on this side of
the boat house.
Q. That is what I wanted to know. Do
you recall anything further concerning that
conversation? A. Well, he asked me some
questions that I cannot just remember in
regard to having somebody in the rig and
letting the team run away, or some way in
that shape—if everything was fixed so no-
body could ever find it out afterwards.
Everything was in black and white. Could
have so much money, but I cannot just re-
member what they were, because I did not
take any stock in it.
Q. The conversation near the Union de-
pot; that was some time prior, was it? A:
That was before this. He asked me if I
wanted to make some money. I told him
yes. He did not say how. One night be
wanted me to remember a date for him.
That is all. He wanted me to remember
that date; that I hauled him at that time.
it was June 20. He told me that there was
five in the party, and he told me he would
like if I would remember that date, and I
asked him what for, and he did not seem to
want to tell.
Mr. Erwin–This is under objection and
exception.
The Court—Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I ask to have stricken out
this last part.
The Court—Stricken out.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Vallery, you had been driving him
all 'round the town, hadn't you, for several
hours? A. For about two and a half or
three hours.
Q. Then he asked you about conscience?
A. Yes, sir. He asked me if I had done an
evil deed, would my conscience bother me
afterwards.
Q. All these other things were put as
suppositions and pointed to test your opin-
ion of conscience? A. Yes, sir; that is the
way I put them.
Q. There was no proposition to you to
kill anybody or drive anybody, or anything
of the kind, but the postulate was put in, if
you should do this for money, would your
conscience convict you? A. He asked me
if I had done such a thing would my con-
science bother me afterwards.
Q. These suppositions, if you done it, if
you done it for money, or if you done it
when you knew everything was ready, all
those propositions were put to you on the
test of what the effect would be on con-
science? A. That is the way that I looked
at it—yes.
Q. Now, wasn’t that varied by saying-
wasn’t it varied in this way—that you and
him discussed that conscience did not work
so strongly when a man had a grudge
against another? A. No, sir; I don’t think
it was. I don’t think he did. I told him
that I would not hurt any man unless in
self-defense, and then I would kill a man.
Mr. Erwin–I move to strike out the en-
tire testimony.
The Court—Motion denied.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Emma Goodale
was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. What is your name? A. I am sup-
posed to go by Madame Peterson, a trance
medium. My home now at the present date
is on Seventh street, 72 Seventh street
south.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward? A.
Yes, sir; I have known him since the first
Monday in May, 1894; that would be the 7th.
Q. From that time up until December,
how often did you see him? A. I could
not say; I saw him first, he come there
pretty regularly every day, and I could not
say how often.
Q. Were his visits quite frequent? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know Catherine Ging during
her lifetime? A. Yes, sir; I did.
Q. Did she visit your place?
sir.
Q. During what time did she make visits
to your place? A. Harry came there Mon-
day forenoon, and he said that he had a
couple of ladies that would like to see me,
and he did not say especially what they
were, and he asked me what the price
was, and I told him, and he asked me if
I could not do my business a little cheaper.
I said no, I would not do it for anybody.
Q. Explain to the jury—you say you are
a trance medium? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that is your profession, and you
give sittings, do you, to people, as they
come in 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Whatever you tell them, is that told
you in a trance condition? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What are your charges for this? A.
From $2 to $5; for the whole past and fu-
ture, it is $5; for just one part, it is $2.
A. Yes,
Q. What were your charges to Harry, the
regular rate? A. I don't know.
Q. To Miss Ging? A. $2 and the lady
he had with him $2.
Q. Were there two ladies who came? A.
Yes, sir; there come two ladies—I won’t
say the time, between 6 and 8 o'clock, and
after supper.
Q. Was Miss Ging one of those ladies?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what did Harry say to you be-
fore they came, when he mentioned to you
that two ladies would come? A. Well, he
told me that we have been in some place,
but I could not say where they were, and
some of the ladies had won -
and the other lady, Miss Ging, had won
$25, and the other lady won $5. I think he
said that this one he gave $5 to had won
$7.50, something like that. I won’t say pos-
itively, and the other one lost.
Q. What further did he state? A. I
don’t know; only what he said he wanted
me to tell Miss Ging different things.
Q. What did he want you to tell her?


196
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
A. In that way that she could win more
than in gambling.
Q: What further did he say? A. Well,
he said, I think so, and he told me never
to tell it to anybody, and I promised not
to, I promised not to, and then Harry told
me her name, and I forgot that, and he
wanted me to write it out, and I did it.
And that Harry promised me so much
money.
Q. How much? A. I could not say.
Q. Can’t you remember about how much?
A. He told me I never would be wanting
for money anyhow. I would help him out
that way; he could get money to gamble
with; and I went out to the kitchen and
told my husband about it, and he said,
“Whatever you do, don’t do it; if you give
anybody a sitting, give them a solid sitting
or nothing.” And that is what I did.
Q: What did you tell him on returning?
A. I did not promise him anything; I told
him I would do the best I knew how. That
is what I told him. After supper Miss Ging
come. She said Harry and his father—
Objected to.
Q. Was Harry there? A. Yes, Harry was
with the two ladies that came there.
Q. Go on and state. A. Harry and his
father—Harry told me his father told him
I was a splendid medium; that is the way
he told me; and Miss Ging said the same
thing; Harry and his father had told her,
I give Miss Ging a sitting, and did not say
much of anything—said I told her things
she never knew since she was in the East.
Q. When next did you see Harry either
with or without Miss Ging? A. I believe
it was the next day.
Q. About going over there visiting. I
will ask you to state what Harry said, if
anything, to you, after that with regard to
his business relations with Miss Ging. A.
First he said, the next day he came back.
I think it was the next day, the next day
he came back and said to me, “You told
in my favor,” he said, and Miss Ging the
same time—he came back the next day, he
said, “She will have good luck for three or
four times, and after that she will be in
bad luck.” That is as near as I can re-
member it.
Q. Was there any occasion in which
money was paid there in your presence?
A. Yes, one day Miss Ging—I think Harry
was going to Chicago, and he came down
there and Miss Ging said, “Now, Harry,
here is $500, you do the best of it.”
Q. Was that after a sitting 2 A. Yes, Miss
Ging's sitting.
Q. Was Harry there? A. Yes, Harry was
there.
Q. Was there anything said, do you know,
after you had come out of a trance, what
you had said? A. No, sir; I cannot swear
to anything.
Q. Do you recall whether anything was
said by Miss Ging after you had given her
this sitting as to what you was stating
to her? A. No, sir; I never did. Quite late
in the fall she felt awfully discouraged,
said, “Madame, you discourage me.”
Q. Did Harry at any time state to you
how much money he had got from her? A.
Yes, late in the fall he said he got $1,375–
that is as near as I can remember.
Q. Did he tell you any time prior to that,
did he tell you of any particular amounts
of money that he had got from her? A.
Yes, one time he got $150, one time $25, and
one time he got $50; that is as close as I
can remember the amounts.
Q. Did he tell you anything further about
how he was fixed financially? A. Yes, sir,
one time he came back from Chicago and
said he had had bad luck; said he was
broke; said he did not have any money,
and Miss Ging did not have any money
and Miss Ging had some property, but she
couldn’t get any money out of it; there was
no insurance, no way of getting money out
of it. That is as near as I can tell it. There
was something said about a mill.
Q. This time that you spoke of, when he
was going to Chicago–do you remember
when that was? A. It was one Satur-
day afternoon. I don’t say what month—I
couldn’t say.
You say that there were two times
that he was going to Chicago? A. Two
different times.
Q. Do you remember about when the
first time was 2 A. I know that it was in
the spring, late in the spring, in the sum-
mer time—what time I could not say.
Q. The other was considerably later? A.
Yes, sir, I couldn’t say what time.
Q. After he returned from Chicago was
the time that he told you he was broke, and
Miss Ging was? A. Yes, sir, that is right;
both of them, for that matter.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is the theory of these trances?
A. I could not tell you really.
Objected to.
Sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I move to strike out the en-
tire testimony before I ask the question.
Motion denied. -
Exception.
Mr. Erwin–Now, I ask that question and
take an exception to the ruling.
The Court—Yes. -
Mr. Erwin–Let me ask you when you sit
for people, do you lose consciousness? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then in the trance you are moved
by some power other than your own mind?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained.
Exception.
Q. You have already testified in your di-
rect examination that at the sitting you do
not know what you say to the persons you
sit for? A. Yes, sir, I have; I don’t know
anything about it.
Q. Until they tell you when they come
out of the trance—then they tell you? A.
Some do and some do not.
Q. Now, are you visited constantly by
business men 2
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained.
Exception.
Q. Are you visited constantly by grain
dealers and that kind of men?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained.
The Court—I understand this testimony
was directed to conversation between her
and the defendant, and in his presence with
Miss Ging, and the cross-examination can
be confiend to that.
Mr. Erwin–I want to get at the purpose
of it by showing the condition of the science
in order to explain the conversations.
The Court—I do not think it necessary.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
197
Q. Do you know Adry Hayward? A. No,
sir, I do not; I only know Harry; that is
all I do know, and I have seen his father
twice, and the rest of the family I never
saw that I know oil.
Q. I will ask you on a general question,
what is your business and what do you
hold out to the public to do to induce
people to go and take sittings? A. I don’t
ask anybody to come; if they want to
come, they car come.
Q. You have a place of business, haven’t
you; a regular place of business? A. Yes,
I have a business; yes, sir.
Q. You have your sign out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was your sign? A. Madame
Peterson, trance medium; that is all it is.
Now, are you put in a trance by the
persons sitting, or do you go into it your-
self?
Objeced to as immaterial and irrelevant.
Sustained.
Mr. Erwin–It may be material whether
she is under the influence of the person
who is asked to sit.
The Court—It would not make any differ-
ence.
The Witness—Well, it is not.
Mr. Erwin–Is that allowed to stand as
an answer?
Mr. Nye-I won’t ask to strike it out.
Q. Well, people are constantly coming to
you to have sittings when you are in busi-
ness; different people; men and women; to
have sittings when you are in business? A.
Yes, sir.
Do you represent to people that you
can reveal the future in the trance sitting?
Objected to as immaterial,
Sustained.
Exception.
Q. The last time I understand you saw
him you were talking about the mill? A.
Some property, yes; he was talking about
some property, and something about a mill.
Q. Are you positive that was the last
time? A. Yes, sir; I am pretty sure; only
Miss Ging was there a good many times.
Q. Have you anything by which you fix
the time when he referred to her property,
and by which you locate it as the last con-
versation he had 2 A. No, I cannot say
positively what the day of the month it
was or anything of the kind; but I am
pretty sure that he is the last time.
E. A. Davis
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. What business are you in 2 A. I am
with the firm of E. S. Jones’ Sons &
Company; they are in the business of loans
and fire insurance.
Q. Placing loans on first mortgage se-
curity? A. Yes, sir.
Q. On real estate? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Negotiating mortgages? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And are you associated with them in
that business? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know Catherine Ging? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you in behalf of the firm you
mentioned have any financial transactions
for her as agents? A. We placed a loan
for her back in 1888 for $115, , I believe, is
the amount of it, and another loan in Oc-
tober, '82, on a flour mill up at Hamil, that
was $1,200. The mill was burned on the
6th of last August, and it was paid by the
insurance company. We collected the whole
amount, which was $1,245, Sept. 25, I be-
lieve the date was. She took $245 of it and
left the $1,000 at our office. She was unde-
cided whether she wanted it reloaned or
not. Subsequently I found a loan for her
in October some time.
Q. That was a loan on real estate secur-
ity, was it? A. Yes, sir; at 7 per cent.
The security papers were kept in our vault.
Q. Now, what became of the proceeds of
that loan—what did you do in her behalf
with it? A. We sold her the loan, cashed
it. There was a discount when we cashed
it. That loan was for $1,000, and when paid
was $985.
Q. You know what time you discounted
for her and turned over to her the pro-
ceeds of that loan? A. On the 2d day of
November.
Q. How did you pay it? A. By a check
on the Hennepin County Savings Bank.
(Witness produced check.)
Q. Is that the signature of Catherine
Ging on the back of that check? A. Yes,
sir.
(The check above identified by the witness
was here marked “Exhibit 1 & 2,” the
memorandum attached being “Exhibit
Z-2.”)
Q. In what shape did you pay the $245?
A. Why, by a check on the same bank.
(Witness here produced check and the
same was marked “Exhibit Z-3.”)
Q. Is that the signature of Catherine
Ging indorsed on the back? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What became of the proceeds of the
$125 loan 2 A. I paid that—yes, that was
paid to her in July of the same year.
Q. Have you the check with which that
was paid? A. Yes, sir. (Witness here pro-
duced check and the same was marked
“Exhibit Z-4.”)
Q. Is that the signature of Catherine
Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I see the amount of it is $120, was
that discounted? A. If I remember rightly
that was the amount of the loan instead
of $115.
Q. These checks were all paid through
the bank on which they were drawn? A.
Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now, to get at this clearly, what was
your first transaction with Miss Ging? A.
In February, 1888, when we loaned for Miss
Ging $120. It was cashed for her July, '94.
It ran five years. At the end of the five
years it was extended some years longer. I
don’t know how many. The extended loan
was cashed in July, '94 I believe it was
cashed at par.
Q: What other transaction did you have
for her? A. She brought $1,200, I believe—
yes, $1,200, in October, 1892, and said she
wanted it loaned. I loaned it on a flouring
mill at Hamil.
Q: What time did you make this loan?
A. In October, 1892. It ran for three
years.
Q. Now, the time for the liquidation of
that loan had not arrived when she came
to you and asked to have that loan cashed?
A. No, sir, it had not.
Q: Well, how was that loan cashed?
Just tell the jury how it was done, or in
what manner was it done? A. No, the
mill burned on the 6th of last August and
the insurance company paid to us the
amount of the loan. We held the insur-
ance as collateral to the loan.



198 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. And they paid to you when? A. Sept.
25, if I remember right, $1,245.56, I believe
that is the amount. We kept $1,000 of it
upon the loan and gave to Miss Ging $245.56.
Q. Now, this check is stamped upon the
back, “Received for deposit for account
Farmers and Mechanics' Savings Bank, E.
H. Moulton, Treasurer?” A. Yes, sir, she
carried it over and deposited it for her own
account.
Q. Then this check went into her own
fund 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, so much for that. Now, you
retained the $1,000? A. Yes, sir. I went to
her at the end of two weeks and I said I
had a loan for her and asked her if she
wished the money reloaned, and she said at
that time she was undecided, but at last
she made up her mind to accept the loan.
Q. To whom did you make that loanº
A.. I have forgotten the name. It was a
house and lot up on Sixth avenue north.
The facts are, the loan had already been
made to a party in the East, and the party
was desirous of disposing of the loan and I
went to her and I said we had a loan that
was for sale. It was a transfer of a loan
already made.
Q. Then, was this loan transferred to
her by assigning the mortgage and having
it recorded ? A. No, the mortgage ran to
parties in the East and before we could
get an assignment she made up her mind
that she wanted the money again, so we
let her have it. She came to me and said
she had made a mistake, and that she did
not want to make the loan and wanted
me to dispose of the loan at once.
Q: What time was it that she told you
that she did not want to make the loanº
A. Well, it was October 25 or 26, I should
Suppose.
Q. Well, then, this money went to her
in person? Yes, sir.
James Garriety
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You know Mr. Harry T. Hayward,
the defendant in this case? A. Yes, sir.
Have known him for six or seven years.
Q. Where and under what circumstances
have you mostly met him? A. Well, met
him a good deal in gambling houses.
Q. And in connection with gaming of all
sorts, you have been associated with him
during that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember meeting Mr. Hay-
ward—calling your attention to the second
day of November, second or third day of
November? A. I believe so, yes, sir.
Q. Were you in the city of Minneapolis
at that time? A. Yes, sir; within a block
or so of the postoffice.
Q. And had you a conversation with him
at that time? A. Yes, sir; I believe it was
the third, Saturday afternoon.
Mr. Erwin–I will say the general objec-
tion, immaterial and irrelevant.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Give the conversation that there oc-
curred between yourself and Mr. Hayward,
Mr. Garriety, as near as you can, and use
the language employed. A. Why, Harry
got to talking to me about gambling, and
he asked me about Chicago; I had met him
down there not very long ago before that:
I had been employed in Chicago. And I told
him—we got to talking about gambling
here in Minneapolis, and the limit they
dealt here was unsatisfactory to him. They
would not let him play as high as he want-
ed to. I told him that the house I was
dealing in in Chicago gave a very big
limit, and I think I said that a man that
was well known could get $100 and $200.
Q. What does that mean in gambling
parlance? A. I am referring to a faro
bank. It means when there is a single
card left in the box he could bet $100 on it,
and when there is two left, two or more
left, he could bet $200 on it. Then he asked
me what I was doing, and I told him I
was not doing anything at present, that I
expected to go to work shortly. And he
said he was going to Chicago to gamble.
And I think I made the proposition myself,
but I ain’t sure whether I did or not, but
I think I made the proposition to go with
him. And I told him I thought if I was
along with him and we should go to this
house that I was employed in previous to
coming here, he could go in there and get
a limit of $100 and $200. Then he asked me
if I “could go tonight.” “Why,” I said,
“I will go right away.” I told him in or-
der to get me to go with him he would
have to furnish the transportation, and
he did so. I think he gave me a $20 note,
and I went down and bought mileage from
here to Chicago and return.
Q. Well, did you go? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You and Mr. Hayward went to Chi-
cago that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you get to Chicago?
A. I should judge about 9:30 the next
morning.
Q. Well, what did you and he do Sunday
morning? I went around and found
out very shortly—found out that gambling
was closed in Chicago.
Q. Well, when you ascertained that fact
did you have any talk with Harry then?
A. Yes, sir; I says, “I understand that
‘73' is closed,” I says: “I will try and find
out later on if there is any places open,”
and I proceeded to do so.
Q. What did you report to him? A. I
told him they were closed, and he kind of
said to me he was sorry that he brought
me down there and himself on a kind of
wild goose chase, as it were. I told him
that could not be helped. And I told him
then, I says—let's see, that Sunday after-
noon I left him, and I said, “Harry, I am
going to take the 10:30 train home; there is
a train out at 10:30," I says: “I am going
to take the 10:30 home; no use staying
here.” And that is all there was to it.
Q. When did you next see Mr. Hay-
ward? A. I didn't take the 10:30 train
home.
Q. You took the train next evening? A.
Yes, sir; I took the vestibuled limited; that
was Monday night, yes, sir; the 5th.
Q. Did you see any one on the train? A:
After I had been on the train a half or
three-quarters of an hour, I saw Mr. Hay-
ward, returning to Minneapolis.
Q. Did you have any talk with him? A.
He said, “I thought you were going home
last night?” I said, “Why, I intended to
but I missed the train.”
Q. Did he say anything about what he
had been doing in Chicago? A. No, I
don’t think he did.
Q. When did you see him after that? A.
Well, after we got in town that morning
I did not see him for some little time.








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
Q. Well, on the way coming up, did he
show you anything—anything in his pock-
et? A. Yes, sir; he showed me a package
of noney.
Q. Describe the manner in which he
showed it to you and what was said. A.
That was just about the time the train was
to arrive in Minneapolis, and he pulled his
little coat aside like that (indicating). I
think he had his overcoat on, and he just
gave me a little flash like that (indicating)
and he said, “How would you like to have
some of that?” He showed me a package
of money.
Q. When did you next see Mr. Hayward?
A. I did not see him for some little time.
Q. Where was it? A. In a gambling
house; 308 Nicollet avenue.
Any conversation about his financial
condition at that time? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you at any time since the time
you have described had any talk with
him concerning his financial condition? A.
No, sir.
Q. And your return here to the city was
on Nov. 6? A. Yes, sir; we got here on
election morning—yes, that would be the
6th.
Q. In the course of your conversation
coming up from Chicago, was any informa-
tion given you concerning what he had
been doing in Chicago after you had left
Chicago? A. Well, just before he left me,
after I had found out and told him there
was no gambling there in Chicago, I be-
lieve he mentioned to me he was going to
see a friend, and I left him with that.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Well, now, in order that the jury may
understand this without any modesty about
it, you have been in the habit of playing
faro a good deal? A. Yes, sir, both play-
ing and dealing.
Q. And Harry Hayward has been in the
habit of “bucking” faro for some time, has
he not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have seen him play often ? A. Yes,
sir. -
Q. When you say you have met him in
gambling places, you met him not as a
loafer, but as a player? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Has he been a high player? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Such a high player that the gambling
houses in town cut him down to a small
limit, $5 a limit, didn't they? A. Why, they
cut him down to a small limit, yes—
Q. Both at the wheel and the faro table,
on account of his luck and skill in the busi-
ness? A. Why, I suppose so.
Q. Now, that the jury may understand
this, if a man has a small limit and can
only bet $10 on a case card, $20 on doubles
and $30 on threes, he cannot make very
much money out of his streak of luck, can
he—can’t pull very much out of the bank?
A. No, sir.
Q. And if a man has a stake, say of $100
or $150, and he goes in to play, and if he
strikes a streak of luck with a high limit
the money runs up fast, does it not—piles
up quicker? A. Yes, it piles up pretty fast.
Q. And if he runs up against a low limit
and has a good streak of luck, he doesn't
make so much out of it. A. That is so.
Q. And where a man is skillful or lucky
in putting his money down on cards, the
bank, as a rule, cuts him down to a low
limit? A. Well, all reputable houses deal
a certain limit, and it don’t make any dif-
ference whether a man is lucky or not, the
limit remains the same.
Q. Well, they will cut down a particular
man to a low limit and let the rest of the
players– A. Go a little higher? Yes, sir,
that is frequently done? Now, have you
ever seen Harry win anything? A. Yes, sir,
various amounts. I guess I see him win as
hight as $2,500 or $2,600 at a sitting.
Q. How long a sitting? A. Sometimes it
wouldn't be very long, and sometimes it
would extend over a few hours; sometimes
his sittings would not extend over a few
minutes.
Q. How much money do you suppose you
have seen him win in the last year your-
self?
Mr. Nye–Objected to as immaterial and
calling for a mere opinion.
The Court—Well, it is a question in my
mind whether this whole matter ought not
to be stricken out. We don’t want to
spend our time here now learning how to
gamble.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if your honor please,
they have introduced the subject, and I
want to show it up.
The Court—Well, unless the objection is
withdrawn, I will on my own motion strike
it out, except the testimony as to his trip
to Chicago, the money he showed him, and
the fact that the gambling houses were
closed in Chicago.
Mr. Nye-We want to show the trip and
a desire to play the high limit; the fact
that this man had money when he went
down there.
The Court—Well, if counsel wants to
withdraw his objection—
Mr. Nye-I don't wish to object to his
trip down there or anything that is prop-
erly cross-examination, but I object to this
line of inquiry.
The Court—Well,
sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Well, now, I want to ask the witness
whether his being acquainted at No. 73 in
Chicago would be a material advantage to
Mr. Hayward in getting a high limit to
play, if they went down there? A. I think
it would, yes, sir.
Q. Did you notice this money you speak
of of your own accord, or did he show it
to you? A. He showed it to me. It was
a package of money. A pretty good-sized
roll.
Q. Did you get a sight of any of the
bills? A. No, sir.
Q. You don’t know the size of any of
the bills? A. No, sir; they were pretty
close together and I didn't get sight of any
of the bills. -
Q. They were in a package and not in a
roll 2 A. Well, they were in a package
folded in one fold, straight.
Q. Well, how much do you think was in
the package?
Mr. Nye–That is objected as immaterial
and irrelevant.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
He can describe the package, what he saw
—he can’t guess at anything.
Q. Well, I will ask you whether it was
a large amount of money or a small amount
of money that you saw.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and not cross-examination.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Well, describe more fully the package
the objection will be




200
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
which you saw, in your Own Way.
Well, it was a package, I should judge,
that was that thick, and it seemed to have
brown paper, light brown paper, around it.
If the notes were large there was a good
chunk of money there, if they Were lar
notes. - y e large
A.
E. H. Moulton
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are the treasurer of the Farmers'
and Mechanics' Savings Bank of this city,
* º: .*.*. bank operated under
aws o S State for - º
A. Yes, sir. a deposit fund?
Q. I will ask you what s
ystem is used
in your bank, whether pass books are
used 2
ited. A. Yes, sir, for all money depos-
Q. Does the
and
and
sir.
Q. And does it not also conta
* º: all the deposits? A. ****
show you that, what is it? -
is one of our books. it? A. That
3. * *.*, *...***
at and
state whether the dates are correct—
Yºº º correctly the deposits
rawals of Ka. -
bank? A. Yes, sir. te. Ging at that
- Q. From what time? A. From June 15,
94, to Nov. 2 of the same year, '94.
º . º whether there is any
account in your bank of º
A.. I think not. Kate Ging's?
Mr. Hall–We will
dence.
(Book marked Exhibit “A-2.”)
Q. Read the account, if you will.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I object.
The Court—The objection is Overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Note an exception.
Q. Just read the deposits and with-
drawals in that book? A. Well, the first
deposit Was on June 15. Miss Ging de-
posited $200. Then, on July 25 she drew out
$199, which left a balance of $1. On Oct. 3,
she deposited $249, and on Nov. 2, she drew
the same amount out again.
sº Erwin-Well, that was probably the
Mr. Nye–Probably, with a little added–
I don’t know about that.
The Court—Is that all, Mr. Moulton? A.
That is all in there.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. I show the witness exhibit “Z-3”? A.
Yes, sir; that is our stamp upon the back–
that was deposited in our bank.
Q. By whom? A. By Miss Ging, I sup-
pose it was.
Q. Now, what is the date of the stamp
of deposit? A. Well, there is no date on
our deposit stamp, because we don't go
through the clearing house; we deposit in
the Northwestern National Bank by us
and they put it through the clearings.
Q: What is the amount of the check?
A. $247.56.
Q. Well, now, the date is what? A.
Oct. 4 it went through the clearings, and it
evidently went into our bank on Oct. 3.
Q. What is the date of the check itself?
A. The 27th of September, '94.
Mr. Erwin–I want the jury to simply
note that this check is the one she received
as a part of the payment of the mill note.
pass book contain the date
amount of all deposits, and the date
*mount of all withdrawals? A. Yes,
offer this book in evi-
When the agents retained the $1,000; $245
was paid to her in cash and she went right
to the bank and deposited it. There is only
one pass book in evidence.
Mr. Nye-That is all.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 13.
Frederick E. Brewster.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. What is your business? A. City
agent of the Standard Accident Company,
Troy.
Q. Did you ever, as the agent of that
company, take any insurance upon the
person or life of Harry T. Hayward?
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant.
Overruled. Exception.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. For whose benefit was the first policy
of insurance that you took? A. Mrs. La-
duska Hayward, his mother.
Same objection. Objection sustained.
Q. Did you write any other insurance?
I propose to show that it was not in the
name of Miss Ging.
Mr. Erwin–The fact of the renewal is
innaterial and irrelevant.
Mr. Smith—I will ask you if you claim
that is a renewal?
Mr. Hall–Did you renew any policy on
the life of Mr. Hayward, or extend a policy
on his person, in behalf of Miss Catherine
Ging? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you write any such policy for
Mr. Hayward? A. No, sir.
A. W. Lane
sworn. Examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. What is your business? A. Manager
of the Minnesota. Loan and Trust Com-
pany Safety Deposit Vaults. I have full
charge of the vaults.
Q. As such officer, you accommodate de-
positors who have safes and boxes in these
safety deposit vaults, letting them in and
out with their pass keys? A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you whether any record is
kept in your office of the goings and com-
ings of persons who go to the vaults? A.
Yes, sir, every person is registered.
Q. Registered at the time they enter? A.
And the time they leave.
Q. I will ask you if you knew Catherine
Ging in her lifetime? A. I knew her just
as she came to the vault.
Q. Do you know whether or not Catherine
Ging ever rented a box, one of your boxes
in the safety deposit vault? A. Yes, sir.
On the 24th of November last. It was about
half past 12 o'clock.
Q. At that time she got the box, and
was given keys? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When next after 12:30, when next after
that hour and time, did Catherine Ging
next visit those vaults or open the box?
A. It was the first of December, Saturday.
She came in at 3 minutes to 4 and left
at 4 o’clock. She was the he three minutes.
Q. Was she at any other time, did she,
at any other time before the two times
you have mentioned, visit that box? A.
No. sir.
Q. Do you know whether the box was
opened subsequent to Miss Ging's death?
A. It was. It was opened by request of
Mr. Eustis, and by permission of Mr. Mer-
rill, president of the company.
Q: Who was present at that time? A.








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
201
I think you were there yourself, together
with Mr. Merrill and Mr. Eustis and Mr.
Hodge.
Q. Did you see the box when opened?
A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin
Q. Were you present when the box was
rented? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Describe to the jury what Miss Ging
said–who was present? A. There was no
one present but herself. She came in and
said she wished to rent a box.
Q: What for? A. She did not say—I
suppose to deposit valuables.
Q. Have you different sizes of boxes?
A. Yes.
Q: What size did she say she wanted?
A. The smaller size, the $5 box. She said
she wanted a $5 box, which is the smallest
box we have
Q. I wish you would give her language
and what you said to her; everything. A.
She came in and wished to rent a box,
and I took her into the vault and showed
her one of the smaller boxes, and she
took the box and went into one of the
rooms—what we call coupon rooms, a pri-
vate room—closed the door and she re-
mained there 15 minutes, and after she
came back she took the box and locked it,
and we took a description of her, took her
signature, asked her for her age, date of
birth, height, color of eyes and complexion,
and after that was completed I gave her
the receipt, and she took the keys and she
left the vault.
Q. You don't know what the contents
were in that box when she brought it out?
A. No, sir.
Q. Placed the box where? A. In the
vault again, locked the door and gave her
the key.
Q. Now, what is the custom of your de-
posit vaults—do you see parties when they
put things into the box, or when they take
them out, or have you a custom not to
see? A. No, sir, we don’t know the con-
tents. We don’t wish to.
Q. You take special pains not to know it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. As I understand, she returned for the
first time with these keys and her pass—a
woman of her description—on what day?
A. On Dec. 1.
Q: What did she say? A. She said she
wanted the box. She gave me one of the
keys and took the box out and put it into
one of the coupon rooms and remained
there three minutes.
Q. Did you open it so as to know what
the contents were 2 A. No, sir.
Q. When she came out was the box
closed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You placed it back in the vault? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Locked it up again? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And there it remained locked until
opened by Eustis? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You don't know what she had in it
or what she took out on either occasion?
A. No. sir, I have not the slightest idea.
Q. When she came in the first time did
she have envelopes under her arm 2 A. I
am not positive; I think she did.
Q. Describe the envelopes? A. Large size
envelopes.
Q. Filled with something? A. Probably
insurance papers.
Q. About how thick were the envelopes?
A. They looked pretty well filled.
Q. An inch thick? A. No, sir; not quite.
Frank J. Hallo
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. What is your business? A. Book-
keeper of the First National Bank.
Q. Do you know whether Catherine Ging
or Catherine M. Ging, the lady for whose
life the defendant is on trial, had an ac-
count in that bank? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you examined the books of the
bank showing that account? A. Yes.
Q. Between what months? A. The first
day of August, 1894, up to December, at the
time that the account was closed.
Q. Have you made a transcript of all the
entries in your books, as to the deposits
and withdrawals, and checks made by Miss
Ging, on that account during that period?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you that with you?
produces transcript.)
Q. Is that a true and correct transcript
of the entries in your books? A. It is.
Mr. Hall–We will offer that in evidence.
Mr. Smith–Mr. Hallo, there is no year
given here.
Q. That was an omission.
Q. The earliest date is August 1, balance
(Witness
credit? A. Well, not the earliest. The
earliest I took off the account. It extends
a good distance back of that.
Q. It is not the full account? A. It is
not the full account.
Mr. Hall–From August to December it is
all the account? A. It is all the account.
Mr. Hall–But not the account back of
that time?
Mr. Smith—How long had she an account
there? A. I could not state accurately. I
did not look back of that date, as I had
been told to look from Sept. 1.
Mr. Smith—I am inclined to think an ob-
jection willie against this, as being only a
part of an account. The state claims there
were many transactions between Miss Ging
and the defendant prior to Aug. 1, 1894. I
think I will enter an objection as incom-
petent, irrelevant, immaterial; showing
only a part.
The Court—Is there any objection made
to this on the ground that the books are
not produced?
Mr. Smith—I would also make that ob-
jection. I would like to see the full account
for the year 1894, if it is claimed there were
money transactions between the defendant
and the deceased.
Mr. Nye-It is merely to show the con-
dition of her account with the bank at the
time of her death; to show how much
money she had.
Mr. Smith–Referring to the memorandum
which you have made, can you tell when
the last deposit was made by Catherine
Ging in the First National Bank? A. Nov.
30, 1894.
Q. What was the amount deposited by
her? A. At that time $37.57.
Q. At the time of her death, on Dec. 3,
what, if any, balance did you have to the
credit of Catherine Ging at the First Na-
tional Bank? A. One hundred and seven-
teen dollars and 28 cents.
Q. There is a small check against that
$117.28? A. It is dated Dec. 5th.
How much? A. Ten dollars.
Mr. Hall—After the account was closed,




202 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
what was the final balance remaining to
the credit of Catherine Ging? A. One hun-
dred and seven dollars and 28 cents.
Lillian Ida Hazelton
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Did you know Catherine Ging in her
lifetime? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you known her? A.
About eight years.
Q. Did you see Miss Ging at any time on
Monday, Dec. 3? A. Yes, sir. I saw her
in Hale & Thomas' dry goods store. I met
her in there, about, I should judge it was
about 25 minutes of 5. When I first met her.
I was buying some goods for a dress that
she was to make for me. I met her in
Hale & Thomas’ about 25 minutes to 5. I
was buying some—
The Court—Speak louder.
The Witness—It is very hard for me to
talk very loud. I have a throat trouble,
have been quite sick. I went in Hale &
Thomas’ about half past 4, and I met Miss
Ging there at a silk counter, and she
said–
Mr. Erwin–Never mind What she said.
The Witness—She asked me—
Mr. Erwin–Never mind what she asked
you. -
The Witness—I was buying some goods.
Mr. Erwin–Never mind what she said.
The Court—What did she do?
The Witness—Mr. Hall asked me to say—
Mr. Hall–Give the transaction. A. Noth-
ing, only she was going to make me this
dress and she-
Mr. Erwin–Never mind what she asked
you.
Mr. Hall–How long did you remain there
at that place with Miss Ging? A. About
20 minutes I was there.
Q. When you left that place, Hale's
store, where was Miss Ging as you were
leaving? A. I think she went to the lin-
ing counter.
Q. Did she or not leave the store with
you at the same time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. She came out with you? A. Yes.
Q. It was then about what hour? A. It
was about 5 o'clock when we left there.
Q. Was there any invitation extended
between you at that time as you passed
out?
Objected to.
M. Nye-If the court please, we may as
well state our purpose here at this time.
We seek to show a declaration made by
Miss Ging to her, as they parted that
evening. And we have some authorities
which I would like to present to the court,
on the ground that her declarations as to
what she was about to do is a part of the
res gestae in this case. A part of that sys-
tem of conspiracy, and that net work which
has been worked by the evidence in this
case. And I certainly realize that the ques-
tion may be a question, but I think that
the authorities are with the state on the
proposition that her declaration at that
time is clearly admissible as part of the res
gestae, and showing the conspiracy in this
Case.
The Court—I am of the opinion that it
cannot be admitted. If you have any law,
I would like to hear it.
Mr. Nye-These authorities I have been
consulting since the court convened, and
will call your honor's attention to the case
of Hunter vs. the State, New Jersey Law
Reports, 40. (Mr. Nye here read from the
report.) I also call attention to a case
which is more brief but perhaps less strong
than the one just read. The Georgia. Re-
ports, volume 67, Report 67; case of Thomas
Versus the State, page 463, that I will read
now. (Counsel here read from report.) I
call your honor's attention to a note on
page 196, of Wharton's Criminal Evidence.
(Counsel here read note referred to.)
The Court—I don't understand whether
the attorney desires to prove what sort of
declaration was made.
Mr. Nye—I will not state what the de-
claration itself was. I can state it private-
ly to the court.
Mr. Nye and Mr. Erwin here went up to
the court, and the following statements
were made privately to the court.
Mr. Nye—I desire to prove by the wit-
ness that as this witness left Miss Ging
on Sixth street and Nicollet, between 5
and 6 o'clock, half past five, she states,
the she, the witness, said to Miss Ging,
“Won't you go to dinner with me?” Miss
Ging said, “No, I have a business engage-
ment with Mr. Hayward.”
Mr. Erwin–To test that question, sup-
pose I offer to prove in the defense that
she said at or about that time she wrote
a letter on the 3d day of December at 10
o'clock, she intended to meet a man by
the name of Hays back of Lake Calhoun:
The Court—You would not be allowed,
connected with the testimony of Blixt, with
the case, but Harry T. Hayward has been
connected by the testimony of Blixt, with
meeting her a short time after that.
Mr. Erwin–Suppose the testimony went
to Blixt. Suppose the declaration was that
she was to meet Mr. Blixt alone?
The Court—There would not be any ques-
tion in my mind if she did, if the testi-
mony following it up, that she did within
a short time meet him, that it would be
admissible, if he was on trial here.
Mr. Erwin–Would it be admissible for
Harry Hayward's defense now?
The Court—I don’t know why it would
not.
Mr. Erwin–If that door is open?
The Court—To make it admissible, evi-
dence must have been produced showing
its connection with evidence that has al-
ready been produced; if it was connected
with anybody that was with her immedi-
ately after. -
Mr. Erwin–Or suspected to be with her?
The Court—No, you have to have it
proven. So far as this is concerned, the
evidence shows that Harry Hayward met
her a short time afterwards.
Mr. Erwin–I don’t think it is at all com-
petent; I think the test is, that it would
not be competent for us.
The Court—I think it would if you fol-
lowed it up by showing the fact. You
speak of Hays. If you could show in a
short time after that that she was in
company with Hays, you could do that.
Mr. Erwin–I will enter an objection that
declarations sought to be proved, made by
the deceased, are immaterial, irrelevant,
hearsay, and not a part of the res gestae.
The Court—In view of the fact that the
evidence already shows that a short time
after these declarations were made, that
Miss Ging and the defendant were together
at the boulevard–Kenwood boulevard–I










OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 203
think it is admissible, as a part of the
transaction.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Hall–Now, what was the time, as
you and she left the store?
The Court—The time this conversation
was had 2
A. It was right after we left the store.
The Court—What time was that?
A. We left the store at 5 o'clock; about 5.
Mr. Hall–How far did you walk together
as you left the store? A: I walked as far
as Nicollet avenue and Sixth street. I
went right down Sixth street, and she
went home.
Q. Across Nicollet avenue to the Syn-
dicate Block? A. Yes, sir.
Q. where did she leave you. A. Left me
at the corner of Sixth and Nicollet. I went
to the New England and she went down
in the direction of the entrance to her
room.
Q. Now, at what point, as you were walk-
ing from the store, did the conversation
between you and she occur as to what she
was to do during the evening? A. It was
just as I was leaving.
Q. State what she then said. A. I asked
her to go home with me to dinner.
Mr. Erwin–Same objection.
(The witness continuing): She said she
could not; that she had an engagement. I
said: “Well, can you come anyway?” She
said: “No, I cannot; I have an engage-
ment, and it is a business engagement.”
Q. Did she say anything else? A. Yes,
sir.
Q: What did she say? A. She said she
had a business engagement with Mr. Hay-
ward.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now, who did you first tell of this
conversation? A. Who did I first tell? I
told a friend. Her name is Mrs. Curtiss.
Q. When was it you first told her? A.
Shortly after it happened—I think three or
four days after this murder occurred. She
lives in the Hale Block, Curtiss Business
College.
Who else did you tell about it? A.
I did not tell anyone except Mr. Hall. I
told him about it last night; last evening I
told him.
Q. Now, you are certain, then, that this
was just 5 o'clock, except you took that
time to walk one block? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How was she dressed? A. She had
on a dark skirt—I could not say whether
it was black or blue, or what it was, only
it was dark; it was either black or blue.
She had on a black jacket, a black cloth
jacket, cloak and a sailor hat and a black
cloth cloak, and a dark dress skirt, either
black or blue—I could not say which.
Q. What clerk waited on you? A. Mr.
Bottineau, at the silk counter. He waited
on us; we were together.
Q. Which Mr. Hayward was it she re-
ferred toº A. She did not refer to anyone;
she just said Mr. Hayward.
Mr. Hall—Previous to that conversation
had Mr. Hayward's name been mentioned?
A. No, sir.
William H. Eustis
recalled and examined by Mr. Nye.
You were present with Mr. Lane at
the time that he described at which the
vault was examined? A. I was.
Q. Who had the key? A. I think one
of the officers brought in the keys, Miss
Ging's section of the key.
Q. Was that vault examined in your
presence? A. It was.
Q. What was found to be the contents
of the box 2 A. I think there was an as-
signment of a mortgage in the box, and as
near as I can recollect now, an insurance
policy on a stock of goods; I think some-
thing of that kind. Those are the only
papers I recollect in the box.
Q. Any money or other valuables? A.
Not at all.
Mr. Erwin–From whom did you learn
that she had a vault? A. From Harry.
Mr. Erwin–That is all.
Mr. Nye-We will now offer exhibit K.
one of the letters written by-
Mr. Erwin–You didn’t give us a copy of
it.
Mr. Nye-That is one I did give you a.
copy of.
Mr. Erwin–We make no objection.
Mr. Hall–We offer exhibit L. We offer
exhibit M. We offer exhibit N-1, 2 and 3;
two sheets of a letter and an envelope pur-
porting to be a letter from Harry Hay-
ward to Miss Ging, under date of Nov. 30,
1894.
Mr. Erwin–I ask that the three letters
be read.
Mr. Nye-We have several exhibits that
we desire to waive the reading of, such as
policies and assignments.
Mr. Hall–Exhibit K (reading): “Dear
Friend Harry:” This is written 11–29-'94.
“Dear Friend Harry: Think matter over
after you left this a. m. I cannot get that
money now unless I use part of the $7,000,
and I do not see why you want so much as
$2,000 now. When you loaned it to me you
said you would not want it very soon; so
I have loaned it out, but I think I can get
you $500 in a few days, and that will cer-
tainly be all that you should need at the
Hot Springs. First of Jaunary I will have
all my money, and then we can straighten
everything up, if this will be satisfactory
to you. As ever, Kate Ging. 1.1–29-'94.”
Exhibit N-3: “Miss Kate Ging, 65 Syn-
dicate Block. Dear Friend Kate: I like
your nerve in telling me that $500 will do.
me when I want $2,000. You know very
well when I let you have the seven
thousand dollars (figures and dollar sign),
the other day, that that was all the money
that I had, and that you said you would
pay the (there is an asterisk and the word
‘pay the and afterwards “money” inserted
in pencil) in a few days. Now, you have
deliberately turned around and tell me
that you have loaned it out and cannot
get it till Jan. 1. Why didn’t you pay me
the other day with that wad of money
you were flashing around in Barge's restau-
rant? Please look this up and think it
over, and get the money before long. I told
you I would let you have the $7,000 as long
as you could pay interest upon it. All the
security that I have or will have will be a
chattel mortgage on the stock. I will stick
to my part of, so please stick to yours.
Sincerely, Harry T. Hayward.”
Exhibit M. Also dated 11–30-'94. “Dear-
Friend Harry: You need not be so mad
about it. You may have your money back
just as soon as I can get it. Last Satur-
day I thought I could get it in a few days.




204
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
The money I had the other day at the res-
taurant did not belong to me. As ever,
Kate Ging, 11–30–294.”
Mr. Nye-We will have this iron marked
and put in evidence,
The iron was marked Exhibit C-2.
Mr. Nye-We will offer both the revol-
vers, and we will offer the derringer in
evidence.
Claus A. Blixt.
Recalled.
Examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Blixt, do you know Maggie
Wachtler? A. No, sir. I do not.
Q. Did you see a woman in your cell on
the day before Christmas? A. There was
no woman in my cell.
Q. Wasn't there a woman in your cell
with Mr. Odell? A. No, sir. Not that I
remember.
Q. Wasn't there a woman in the jail with
you writing? A. Yes, sir, a lady that
worked for my attorney.
Q. She was there a part of two days,
was she? A. She was there until he had
it finished.
Q. Did you say in her presence that
Adry—
Mr. Nye–Before the question is stated I
would like to ask a question. I think it
appears that this was a conversation with
his attorney and his stenographer. It was
confidential.
The Court—You may ask the question.
Mr. Nye-Was this woman ever in your
cell except when your lawyer, Mr. Odell,
was there? A. No, sir, never.
Q. And her duties were c.1ose entirely of
a stenographer or clerk? A. I did not
have no talk with her at all. She was just
writing what I said.
Q. Your conversation was entirely with
Mr. Odell? A. I did not have no conver-
sation with her.
Mr. Odell is your lawyer? A. Yes.
Q. And it was concerning this case? A.
Yes.
Q. Concerning your connection with the
murder? A. Yes.
Mr. Nye-I object to any conversation at
that time.
The Court—I don’t know of any rule of
law that will exclude that. Of course con-
versations between an atorney and his
client, so far as they are concerned, can-
not be divulged; but if they are willing to
make it public or have it where somebody
else can hear it, I don’t know that there is
any law to prevent it.
Mr. Nye—I would ask the court to inform
the witness that he is not obliged to dis-
close any communication made to his law-
yer.
Mr. Erwin–That would be improper. The
statute on privilege only protects the at-
torney.
The Court–No, it protects the client.
Mr. Erwin–It does not. I beg your hon-
or's pardon, if you will let me have the
statute.
Mr. Erwin–It protects the client from
anything his attorney may say as a wit-
ness against him.
The Court—It is to protect the client.
Mr. Erwin–You are right on your side
and I intended to be right on mine. The
statute only prohibits the attorney from
being examined as a witness, and the party
himself can be examined as to what he
told his attorney.
Mr. Nye-Unless his attorney wants to
claim his privilege I shall not.
Mr. Erwin–Mr. Blixt, on that day of that
conversation, on the day that you saw that
woman in your cell, on the day named,
day before Christmas, did you say in her
presence, “Adry and I put up the job to
kill Miss Ging for her money, and we
agreed that if we got caught we would put
it onto Harry, because he always was with
Miss Ging. We went out to the lake a week
before the murder, and on the day of the
murder Adry said to me, “Be sure and take
the iron with you, and go to the same
place that we picked out, and if you have
any trouble Frank will be there to help
you?” A. It is all a lie.
Q. Did you also say that Adry was with
you when you got in the carriage with Miss
Ging? A. No, sir, I never mentioned Adry
and I could not.
Q. After making this remark which you
told, did Mr. Odell tell you not to say any-
thing about Adry? A. He has never said
such a thing.
Q. Did you then reply, “Oh, I forgot, but
you told me to tell the truth?” A. I said
that I should tell the truth.
Q. Answer the question. A. I have said
nothing about Adry—I could not.
Question read.
A. Such things have never been spoken.
Q. Did you see Miss Wachtler in your cell
the day before New Year's; that is, the
lady that was with Mr. Odell, his stenog-
rapher? A. I have never seen her except
with the attorney.
Q. Did you on that day have the conver-
sation which I have described in former
questions? A. Never.
Q. When you were at the West Hotel, did
Mr. Hoy take you down to one of the
rooms on the lower floor? A. No, sir, he
took me right away down.
Q. Weren't you taken into a room on the
lower floor? A. No, sir; I was taken right
along, right out of doors.
Q. Didn't Mr. Hoy take you into one of
the rooms on the lower floor, and taking
out a knife and a revolver, in your pres-
ence, tell you that he would cut your heart
out if you did not tell him about this mat-
ter? A. No, sir.
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant, in-
competent and not cross-examination.
The Court—Well, he has answered it.
Mr. Erwin–Did you say anything to the
substance and effect of what I have asked
you in your conversation in the jail, in the
presence of Miss Wachtler? A. I have not
said anything.
Q. Nothing of that kind? A. Nothing of
that kind. I only stated my statement, and
she wrote it out.
Q. Did any such thing ever occur in the
West Hotel, anything like what I have de-
scribedº A. No, sir.
Lillian Ida Hazelton
recalled and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Mrs. Hazelton, you stated that Miss
Ging remarked, “I have a business engage-
ment with Mr. Hayward? A. Yes.
Q. Now, was anything said at that time
cr had there just preceding that anything
further been said to indicate what Mr.
Hayward or which Mr. Hayward she re-
ferred to 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Had she spoken of any other person
by the first name before that? When she
spoke, give her exact language when she
said she could not go, that she had an en-






















OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 205
gagement? A. She said she had it, and it
was a business engagement.
Mr. Hall–In the course of that conversa-
tion had the name of this defendant-
Mr. Erwin–In the store?
Mr. Hall–Yes, or while you were in, im-
mediately preceding that.
Mr. Erwin–We object to her testimony
as to any conversation in the store.
The Court—There is no conversation to be
given except to answer that question,
whether the names of any of the Hay-
wards were used auring that time, and if
so, who.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial, ir-
relevant and not re-direct examination, and
not a part of the res gestae; and as not
connected with the conversation on the
street referred to.
Objection overruled. Exception.
Mr. Hall–Can you answer the question?
A. I asked her if she had seen Harry
lately. I meant Harry Mann, a gentleman
that knew both of us. I said, “Have you
seen Harry lately?” She said, “Harry?”
I said, “Yes, Harry Mann”—I said-
The Court—I have ruled out that test!-
nony.
Mr. Hall—I ask you if Hayward was
named, Harry Hayward's name being used
in that conversation, immediately preced-
ing the time that you stepped out? A. No,
sir; that was in the store.
Q. Had it been used in the store? A.
No, sir; I asked her if she had seen Harry
lately.
Q. Had she used the name of the de-
fendant, Harry Hayward? A. Yes.
Q. How long was that before the time
that you stepped out on the street, and
she made the remark that you were allow-
ed to testify to, “I am going to meet Mr.
Hayward in a business engagement to-
night?” A. Probably 15 minutes before
that.
Q. Had she during this conversation
given the name of any other Mr. Hay-
ward? A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Where do you reside now?
Eleventh street south.
Q. Have you a son? A. Yes. His name
is Frank Hazelton.
Q. I will ask the witness whether Mr.
Hall was at one time your son's guardian?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, Harry Mann, you say was men-
tioned in that store? A. Yes.
Q. But Harry Hayward was not men-
tioned in the store? A. Yes, he was.
Q. How was he mentioned in the store?
A. I asked her if she had seen Harry
lately. She said “Harry.” I said “Harry
Mann.” And she said “I was thinking of
Harry Hayward.” Said I, “Who is Harry
Hayward?” She said, “He is a friend of
mine.”
Mr. Nye-The state rests.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, the
defense in this case for the first time are
in possession of the state's case. This case
did not pass through a preliminary exam-
ination, as is usual with these cases. In
fact, the testimony has been hard to ob-
tain, and we have had no means of ascer-
taining what the state of the case would
be in its general features. We state to the
court that we can save time if the court
will allow us this afternoon to prepare our
A. 59
opening speech to this jury, absolutely
save time, and we can compress it to such
a degree that the court will be no longer
occupied than if we went on at this time
with the opening.
The Court—I suggest that we come in at
9 o'clock tomorrow morning and adjourn
Ilow-
Mr. Erwin–If we only take for our open-
ing an hour or an hour and a quarter, will
you say 10 o'clock? They took three hours,
and we will compress our opening to an
hour or an hour and a quarter.
The Court—You can’t tell when a man
gets going.
Mr. Erwin–We know when to stop.
The Court–We will call it half past 9.
Mr. Erwin–I see from appearances here
that some of these jurors are ill, and the
day is pleasant, and I wish your honor
would let them have a nice ride. If they
get sick in this case we will all have to
stop.
The Court–We will have the jury taken
out.
(Court here adjourned until 9:30 a. m.,
February 14, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 14.
Opening Address to the Jury for the
Defense by John Day Smith.
“May it Please the Court, and Gentlemen
of the Jury:
“It is reported that Alexander the Great
at one time in the height of his glory and
power sought out the Grecian philosopher,
Diogenes, and desired to do him service,
and asked what he could do for him. The
surly old philosopher said: “Get out of my
light.”
“We have come to that state in this case,
where for the time being we are going to
ask the prosecution to do the same thing
for us, that the sunlight of truth may be
let in upon the circumstances so dark and
mysterious in this case.
‘This is a most remarkable case, in what-
ever way you look upon it.
“Accepting the theory of the defense that
the defendant in this case is innocent, it is
a most remarkable case. Accepting the
theory of the prosecution that the defend-
ant is guilty, it is a still more remarkable
case. It is the most remarkable case in
the history of criminal jurisprudence in
this country. A terrible crime has been
committed. The details, as recounted to
you by the witnesses for the prosecution,
are most heinous and revolting.
“We are not here as the counsel for the
defendant to apologize for crime. We are
here representing the defendant, and in or—
der to see that all of those constitutional
guarantees which surround a defendant,
may be properly guarded. The jury trial
is so old that it is impossible to trace it
back to its origin. Two thousand years
ago in the forest of Germany the people
of that country were fighting for the same
principles we are enjoying today. The An-
glo-Saxon race brought the system of jury
trial to England, and although suppressed
during the period of the Danish invasion,
yet Albert the Great afterwards restored
it, and it has been transmitted to us. It is
the result of centuries of conflict. All that
is preserved of the history of the Pilgrims
during their first five years on the Massa-
chusetts coast is one sentence relating to
their criminal jurisprudence, and that is,
-




OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
in all cases of crime, in all cases of tres-
pass between man and man, the issue
ought to be fairly and honestly tried by a
jury of 12 honest men.
“As I look into your faces this morning,
I realize that this has been a trying ordeal
for you to sit in this room during the
weary weeks that have passed; the temper-
ature of the room alternating between hot
and cold. And that your physical consti-
tutions have been severely tested. You
have gone through more than half of the
period that you will be obliged to sit here
and listen to the evidence in this case. I
shall ask you to be as patient as you can
this morning. My address to you will be
short, as I only come before you by a
change in the plan of defense, that I
should open this case to you.
“Great care has been taken to select a
jury, each member of which before step-
ping into the jury box stated that he had
no prejudice in this case; and that he be-
lieved himself qualified to sit and judge
fairly and honestly the is uses in this case.
Indeed, you took an oath that without re-
gard to the fear of any man or the favor
of any person, you would honestly and
truly try the issues in this case between
the state of Minnesota and the defendant,
according to the evidence that might be
adduced here in court under the laws of
the state. That oath is binding upon you.
“Before I was admitted to the bar to
practice before the people of this state I
also raised my hand to heaven and I took
an oath that I would honestly and faith-
fully, as an officer of the courts of this
state, in reference to the client that I
might represent, and with reference to the
honorable court before which I might try
cases, that I would, without falsehood and
without deceit, honestly and honorably con-
duct myself as an attorney at law. That
oath is binding upon me today. And with
it in remembrance I come to the trial of
| this case, and have sat here day after day
listening to this testimony.
“I do not care to rehearse at this time,
because it is unnecessary, the revolting re-
tails of this crime. Every one of you, and
I would gladly join you; and would bear a
tribute of respect and sympathey to the
sad-eyed woman, the sister of the deceased,
who has sat here day after day listening to
this terrible crime; afflicted in a double
sense by the sad manner of the death of
Catherine Ging. We can do nothing to
comfort her except to see that justice be
done. And we should not do that on her
account alone, but on account of the peo-
ple whom you represent at this time.
“I am looking forward, and hope that
the day will come when persons accused of
crime will need no counsel to defend them
in the courts, but when the prosecuting at-
torney shall bring all the evidence, and be
both the counsel for the state and the
counsel for the defendant. When we shall
throw all possible light upon the case and
say to the jury: ‘Gentlemen, these are all
the facts that I can obtain, and you must,
between yourselves and the people and
yourselves and the defendant, judge hon-
estly and fairly in the sight of God.” But,
instead of that being so at this time, the
prosecuting attorney, of course, feels it in-
cumbent upon him to present just those
facts in the case that will tend to prove
the guilt of the person, while the defense
must hunt around and find what evidence
the counsel may be able to find that will
tend to disprove the theory of the state—to
establish the innocence of the defendant.
“You will remember that the counsel for
the people, Mr. Hall, in his opening ad-
dress made certain promises as to the
evidence that he would produce here upon
the trial to substantiate the theory of the
prosecution.
“The first proposition was that the de-
fendant in this case had so worked upon
the deceased that little by little he had
acquired all the money that she had, and
had lost it. I submit to you that that
proposition has hardly been established.
Independent of her bank account in the
First National Bank at the time of her
death you will bear in mind that her other
property, her other money, was not traced
by evidence into Harry Hayward's hands.
“In the second place, it was urged by
the prosecuting attorney that it would ap-
pear that Harry himself was the person
who went riding on the Tuesday or Wed-
nesday and the Saturday preceding the
homicide, with Miss Ging. Those facts
have not been established.
“It was intimated in the third place by
Mr. Hall that what he said to the jury
about the assault clause attached to Miss
Ging's accident policy was a remarkably
suspicious circumstance. The evidence in-
troduced by the state to establish this theo-
ry relating to the clause as to intentional
injuries shows that this clause was not
issued at the request of Miss Ging, nor at
the request of the defendant in this case.
But without request of anyone, it was
issued in the general course of its business.
And on the very day that the clause in
that accident insurance policy, in the Trav-
elers’ Accident Insurance Company, was
mailed to Miss Ging in the regular course
of business, there had been 20 other and
similar clauses mailed to other persons
who had taken out policies in that company.
This was statisfactorily established yester-
day by the testimony of John G. Purple,
who was an agent of that company.
“Then the counsel for the prosecution,
Mr. Hall, dwelt a long time upon the in-
quiries that had been made by the defend-
ant in this case as to what constituted an
insurable interest; so that a person might
take out an insurance policy, either the
ordinary life policy or accident policy, and
have it made to some person who had an
insurable interest in the life of the insured.
And it has been developed by the long ar-
ray of witnesses that have been examined
in this case that when this question of in-
surable interest was discussed, other ques-
tions were discussed with it; and that it
was simply the precaution of the ordinary
man in taking out an insurance policy to
use as collateral security for loan; that all
of these questions should be settled. And
you will remember when Mr. Hodge was
on the witness stand and testified that he
had suggested that perhaps a note might be
prima facie evidence of an insurable inter-
est to the extent of the face of the note,
that Harry T. Hayward, the defendant in
this case, answered that he did not hardly
think that would hold water; but that it
should be made simply for the face of the
note, and the note should represent an
actual loan. And he had obtained this in-
formation from other companies.
“The peculiar excellence, gentlemen, of



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
207
the common law system of trial over that
which had prevailed in other civilized coun-
tries at the time that the jury trial was
instituted was the fact that the proceedings
to establish guilt was never permitted to
be inquisitorial in their character. You re-
member the history of the inquisition. You
will remember how accomplices and in-
formers and spies were permitted to go in
secret and testify against the character
and the conduct of a man, and the accused
was never confronted with the witnesses
who had testified against him. And then
if he had not confessed he was placed
upon the rack and tortured until he did
confess. -
“Our system of trial is supposed to have
done away with the whole system. It
will not be claimed, gentlemen of the jury,
that the defendant in this case has been
subjected to any very great indignity on
the part of the state or the officials of
the county. It will be claimed, however,
that those persons who either as accom-
plices or as persons who have given testi-
mony incriminating the defendant in this
case were put through very much such a
process with the exception of the inflic-
tion of torture that was more anciently
the custom.
“It will be claimed and proved, I think
to your satisfaction, if it has not already
been done, that Blixt, the confessed mur-
derer, and Adry Hayward, the brother of
the defendant in this case, were subjected
to the indignities of accusation, and that
they were pumped and cross-examined by
the chief executive of this city, by the de-
tectives, by the assistant county attorney,
and after they had made one statement,
another was taken contradictory of the
first, and perhaps a subsequent statement
in some respects contradictory of the first
two. And then that testimony obtained
under such circumstances is brought in
here to convict the defendant in this case.
“I do not know, nor do I care to inquire,
by what authority the officers of this city
attempted to set up a high court of inquisi-
tion to subject suspected citizens to this
treatment.
“In the case of the defendant, you will
remember the testimony of Mr. Eustis,
who was at that time the mayor of this
city, when he informed the defendant in
the vaults of the Minnesota Loan and
Trust Company, when he was taking—I
will use the word “taking' in a charitable
sense—when he was taking the private
papers of the defendant in this case, that
he took them as mayor of the city of Min-
neapolis, and that he had a right to take
them. If that proposition be true, gentle-
men, and the day shall ever come when
either you or myself may be suspected of
crime, we may expect the mayor of the
city, accompanied by a crowd of detectives,
to come to our house to take away private
papers, incriminating or not, and take them
away to be used as evidence against us.
The boast of the Englishman was that
every man’s dwelling house was his castle,
and when he was within the doors of his
castle no one could interfere with him, ex-
cept in a few exceptional cases.
“The time to discuss and analyze the
evidence in this case, which we shall be
expected to meet, will come at a later stage
of this case. I wish to refer incidentally
to some of the evidence, in order that it
may be shown what we may confront and
what there is against the defendant in this
Case.
Gentlemen of the jury, the defendant in
this case, Harry T. Hayward, has sat here
day after day in this trial. You have seen
him, but you know nothing in regard to his
early history except as has been developed
here in the evidence in this case.
Nothing detrimental to his character has
been adduced here, except the fact that he
is a gambler. I regret, gentlemen, that the
defendant in this case has ever gambled in
his life. I would feel better in standing
before this jury if I could point to a man
whose character was entirely untarnished.
We could not deny the fact that the defen-
dant in this case is a gambler if we would
and we would not if we could. The fact is
before you, and it is a patent fact.
“I can indorse every word that was said
by Mr. Hall in his opening address to the
jury, as to the debasing influences of
gambling. I would place it alongside of in-
temperance, and say that those two curses
by themselves are what are dragging down
and degrading the young men in our city
and in our land today. But I want to call
your attention to the fact that Harry T.
Hayward is not on trial for gambling. He
is indicted for the murder of Catherine
Ging, and the question of his gambling is
not pertinent to this issue only so far as
it may thrown light upon his transactions
with the deceased.
“It would have been better for the de-
fendant in this case if he had remained
under the influence of the mother who has
sat here two or three days by his side, and
taken counsel from her; but unfortunately
he has not. He has yielded to the tempta-
tion that so many young men have yielded
to here in our city, where the opportuni-
ties for gambling and for drunkenness are
thrust before so many. He has yielded to
the temptation, and he has gambled. He
has been for some years, I don’t know
how long, a gambler, frequenting different
gambling places and indulging in the fas-
cinating game.
“I want to call your attention to one
thing, however; that, while Blixt and his
family, in recounting certain words that
had been used by the defendant to them,
used those horrible oaths, but when Adry,
his brother, with his heart filled with en-
mity as it is, took the witness stand, he
said Harry very seldom uses a profane
word and never drinks intoxicants. He
was compelled to pay that tribute to his
brother. He is indicted for murder and is
on trial here at this time.
“I understand those statements to be
absolutely true. Not as they bear particu-
larly on this case, only so far as they
discredit some of the testimony that has
been adduced here.
“I desire to say only a word in regard to
Catherine Ging. We must admit from the
testimony in this case, gentlemen, that
Catherine Ging was not an unsophisticated
and an untutored girl. She was, and it
may be said to her credit, a business wom-
an of sagacity; a woman who had been
in business for herself in this city for a
long period of years; a woman who had
obtained credit, and who had paid her
bills; a woman at the head of her business,
and that business successful. This is the


208
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
woman who has gone down to her untime-
ly death.
“Now, in the able address made by Mr.
Hall in opening this case to the jury, he
stated that the motive, and the only mo-
tive for the perpetration of this revolting
crime was money! money! And then this
insurance that had been obtained upon the
life of Catherine Ging and assigned to the
defendant in this case was introduced to
substantiate this theory. Gentlemen, it
may be that it is not a very safe invest-
ment for one person to place money upon
the life insurance of another, but it is
frequently done. The evidence in this case
as introduced, here shows that Catherine
Ging intended to enlarge her business, that
she intended to take a store on Nicollet
avenue; whereas, prior to that time she
had had rooms on one of the upper floors
of the Syndicate Block. She intended to
put in a stock of goods; and that this mon-
ey was obtained from Harry Hayward was
to be used in stockong that store. It is
probably shown by the evidence for the
state that Harry T. Hayward, the defend-
ant in this case, counseled with Miss Ging
in the obtaining of $5,000 upon her life in
the New York Life Insurance Company
and a $5,000 accident policy in the Travel-
ers' Insurance Company of Hartford, Con-
this case by the evidence. But the fact
that precautions were taken because the
security was not ample should not militate
against the defendant in this case. -
“So, gentlemen, the state has not shown
in all respects what it proposed to show
at the opening of the trial. We shall
claim in the defense that Harry Hayward
had loaned Miss Ging money prior to the
note of Nov. 24, 1894. As to what the money
was used for, whether for gambling or for
other purposes, or for both, will be devel-
oped when we come to put our witnesses
on the stand.
“Now, gentlemen, the theory of the
prosecution in this case is: You will un-
derstand that there are two counts to the
indictment. One accuses the defendant in
this case with causing, influencing and
procuring one Claus A. Blixt to commit
the murder. And the other with actually
committing it himself., Of course, the sec-
ond count of the indictment is not relied
on, and that may be counted as out of the
case. The first count of the indictment in
the case is the one that the state relies
on. The theory of the state is this: That
by influencing, by subjecting this man
Blixt to some power—the word hypnotic
was not used by my friend Hall in his
address—but if the influence was what the
necticut, but it was developed by their own state claims it to have been, it m
- - - - --- ust have
witnesses . *...* º been actually an hypnotic influence, and
came to obtain at p011cy comes beyond the ordinary power of man,
York Life, did not take the cheapest kind
of insurance that she could have obtained which Hayward had over Claus A. Blixt.
—that is, she did not take the cheapest
quality. She paid the larger sum, to obtain
what is called, I think, a 20 payment pol-
icy, than she would had she obtained an
ordinary life insurance policy for $5,000.
This is opposed to the theory of the state
that they were counseling together and
were going to put out just as little money
as they could, and they were going to
get insurance policies to the extent of $10,-
000 to cover, as the state says, an alleged
loan of $7,000. All of this conversation
which Harry T. Hayward had with this in-
surance agent in the city would resemble
very much the conversation that you or I
would have if we went to have our lives
insured.
*Would not we, in obtaining an insur-
ance policy, a good deal rather have the
suicide clause stricken out? We none of
us expect to commit suicide, and yet, under
the strain which comes to men in this
conflict of life, we may some time have our
reason extinguished to that extent that we
may commit suicide. If we do, do we
want the policy to become worthless, and
the company to refuse to pay? No, we do
not. So it is that those policies are most
populor which have no suicide clause in
them. Those policies which are non-con-
testable for a short period of time, or per-
haps for a longer period of time, except
upon the ground of the misrepresentation
of the insured. These were the policies
that were obtained. You have heard the
conversations which were had by Hayward
with the insurance agent and by the de-
ceased with the insurance agent.
“It may be they may seem suspicious to
you, but they do not seem suspicious
to me, because I have been through
the same experience of having my own
life insured. You are not to judge this case
by your own experience. You are to judge
And while under this influence he perpe-
trated that awful deed in that awful man-
ner.
“What does Claus A. Blixt testify toº
You have seen this man on the witness
stand. The assisting prosecuting attorney
stated here before you that he was almost
a gentleman. I blush with mortification
for other men who expect to have that
name applied to them ‘Almost a gentle-
man!' The man upon whose face God has
placed the mark of the passionate nature
within. “Almost a gentleman!’ A man who
had been employed in such avocations as
might or might not fit him for the per-
formance of this very act. As though
whisky was to him a stranger, and he a
saloon keeper in this city! Blixt's state-
ment is that when completely under the
influence of this man, and through a
sense of fear as he sat upon the witness
stand, with that dogged determination
in his face; that he was afraid that Harry
T. Hayward would murder his wife. If
that were so, why didn’t he take his wife
and leave the Ozark flats, if he was afraid
of violence on the part of Harry T. Hay-
ward”. It is the most preposterous thing
in the world; that this man, stubborn and
naturally cool and vindictive, as you can
see in the very manner of his testifying-
that he should be afraid of Harry T. Hay-
ward; afraid that he would murder his
wife! He did not claim he was afraid ot
his own life; he did not claim that he was
afraid of personal violence himself, as I
remember it.
“That he followed Harry T. Hayward
down to the corner of Kenwood boulevard
and Lyndale avenue, and then out on Ken-
wood boulevard a piece up, where they
met Miss Ging in a carriage—did not meet
her, but where they found her waiting.
And then you heard his story, how he






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
turned and drove out Hennepin avenue.
He went to Lake street. He followed
Lake street around to the head of Lake
Calhoun, and then took the Excelsior road.
He had the revolver, he says, in his pocket;
a part of the time in his hand. Why
could not he have stopped then and driven
back part way to the city, and told Miss
Ging to drive back to the city and have
gone to police headquarters and reported
the author of this foul murder, accord-
ing to the theory of the state? Didn't
he have the courage to do that? He had
the courage to do anything. Then, he says,
after going a short distance on the Excel-
sior road—the most remarkable thing in
this case—that when Catherine Ging was
leaning forward in the carriage in order
that she might look out and look back–
an almost impossible thing for her to do—
what did he do? Why, he says, I looked
straight ahead and took the revolver up in
front of me and fired without taking aim.”
And where did the ball go? With unerring
precision it went in a little back of the
right ear. It passed through the base of
that woman’s brain and got into the orbital
bone and out by the left eye. And that
man says that it was just like hitting her
that way. Do you believe that? It would
certainly be a very remarkable thing if it
was true. Then what did he say he did?
He took the robe off from that woman’s
lap and held it up against her person into
the back part of the carriage and drove on;
and drove on until he had passed down,
he remembers, into the tall timber into the
Excelsior road on the West side of that
lake. No object in view, especially. And,
then, he says, he turned around; and he
drove her back until he realized that he
was coming into the region of the settle-
ment of the city; and then he must get rid
of her, or in his own language, that he
must carry her down town with him. Then
what does he do? He says he took her feet
and placed them outside of the carriage,
and took her by the body and let her down
on the wheel, and that the rear wheel of
the vehicle passed over her limb.
“In what condition do we find that body
at the county morgue? The mute, lifeless
form of Catherine Ging, in yonder morgue,
gives the lie to the testimony of Claus A.
Blixt. What do we find as testified to by
Dr. Nippert and Dr. Hill? We find an in-
cision in the lower lip. We find a scar upon
the end of the nose. We find that the nose
has been broken, crushed, and bent over
towards the right. We find over her right
eye a wound in circumference equal to a
hazel nut, somewhat depressed. And then
we find, beginning in the front, a fracture
of the skull through both bones, beginning
with the frontal, passing through the tem-
poral and the parietal bones, away around
almost to the base of the brain.
“And Claus A. Blixt expects you, gen-
tlemen, to believe that that woman, falling
as a limp, lifeless woman would do, broke
her skull upon both sides and left all of
these scars, evidences of the heinous as-
sault which he made upon her. Ah, it will
never be believed. Claus A. Blixt must
have beaten that woman’s head almost into
a jelly before he ever fired that shot. And
the evidence in this case, in my judgment,
will clearly prove that proposition. You
take a child, a drunken man; you take a
woman who has fainted, and let them fall
out of a carriage, and it would be practi.
cally impossible for them to receive all
those wounds. Claus A. Blixt fired that
fatal shot when he feared that the woman
was not dead; and it was not brought out
on direct examination, but on cross-exami-
nation, that just before he fired the fatal
shot he heard another one, another shot a
little distance off. Then he says he drove
up into the vicinity, partly after leaving
the carriage, and took a car, and where
does he say he went? It is necessary, gen-
tlemen, to account for the whereabouts of
Claus A. Blixt from the time he committed
that horribe deed until he returned to the
Ozark flats. He says he came down to
Washington avenue and Hennepin; he
walked over to Washington avenue and
First avenue south. He says that he went
and asked the switchman at that point
when a Bloomington car would come along;
that is all he remembers. He says, “When
a Bloomington avenue car would come
along.” That is all he remembers of saying.
And then he took a Bloomington avenue
car and went out to Franklin avenue and
went down to Twelfth avenue south, be-
tween Twenty-second and Twenty-third
streets. And you notice an the cross-exam-
ination that he was questioned pretty close-
ly as to what he did there. He went up-
stairs. He knocked at the door, knocked
loud, no lights in the house, and four or
five times he knocked. And he could not
get any response. He came down and took
the car; came around and went into Swen-
son’s saloon. What did he do there? Shook
a couple of games of dice, if that is what
you call it, and took a couple of drinks;
and pounded on the door to bring out a
jeweler, in order that he might prove that
he had been there; left his watch for repair
and then went home. Now, did you notice
that the state undertook to prove that? If
did not escape your notice. The switchman
at the corner of Washington avenue and
First avenue south was placed on the stand.
What did he testify to? He testified that
Blixt came up to him and says, “Don’t
you remember me?” He was an honest
man and he says, “I looked at him and told
him that I did remember his face.” It
should be stated that Blixt informed him
that he had formerly been a conductor upon
that line. He was asked, ‘Did he inquire
for a Bloomington avenue car?' ‘No, I
don’t think he did.” “Did he take a Bloom-
ington avenue car?’ ‘No, I don't know
that he did; I don’t know anything about
it.” And that was as far as the state fol-
lowed Claus A. Blixt in his journey to
South Minneapolis, a journey which he did
not take.
“We will show you in evidence, gentle-
men, that there was a light in the house
until a very late hour at night and per-
haps burning all night on account of a
sick girl being there. The two ladies who
reside there will come on the stand and
say that a knock made on the door at
that time would have been heard by them.
The testimony will show that the detec-
tives of the city went down there and un-
dertook to establish the theory that Claus
A. Blixt visited that house, and that they
went in and made inquiries. They said
there was no man ever there, and then
they went so far as to place one man on
the inside and the other one on the out-
side and knock on the door to see if they
could be heard; and it looked like a bad



210
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
case, and they abandoned it at the proper
point, Washington and First avenue south
—it will be shown in evidence that Claus
A. Blixt went down there the next day
or two and undertook to impress on this
woman that he had been there the night
before. And they said to him, ‘Oh, no; he
had not; he could not be.”
“I cannot properly characterize the con-
duct of this inhuman fiend and brute, who
has testified on this stand, but I desire
to advert to one circumstance even though
I should incur the interruption of the
court. One day when Claus A. Blixt had
been gazing around over the room in that
heartless and indifferent way, always fall-
ing back upon the statement that “he did
1-ot know,” “his memory was not good,' 'he
was sick then,” whenever a very difficult
question was put to him; and immediately
upon the adjournment of the court and in
the presence of this jury, the former mayor
of this city stepped forward and took him
as he came down and held onto his hand
and looked into his smiling face, it seemed
to me it must be to give him character
before this jury. I would not have touched
the bloody hand of that debased brute for
a large amount. I don’t believe it is
right. And I want to say before I
leave this part of the case, gentlemen,
that I have no disposition to say any-
thing disrespectful of any man who has
sought, and has, as he believes, found for-
giveness at the throne of grace. I believe
in religion. I believe in appealing to the
Almighty and asking for forgiveness of
sins through Jesus Christ, the savior of the
world. God holds out the promise to us
through his revealed word that he will
forgive sin, but not that he will remove
the consequences which sin has made. And,
fresh from the committing of such a brutal
crime as that man had committed, and
looking almost into the face of that worse
than widowed sister, he says, “I am happy
now.” I call it a travesty and a caricature
upon the religion of the Lord Jesus Christ.
His testimony, gentlemen, if true, would
be very damaging to the defendant in this
Case. I would not predicate any intelli-
gent action upon the testimony of such a
man.
“In what position, or in what relation,
does he come into this court? An indict-
ment has been found against him, charging
him with the murder of Catherine Ging.
Now, there is one way that he might have
been given credibility and that his testi-
mony would most naturally have been be-
lieved. It has suggested itself to you be-
fore this. What was that? It was to
have tried him and convicted him for the
awful crime which he confessed with in-
difference here at this time. Then he
could have come into this court and the
county attorney could have said, “Gentle-
men of the jury, this man has committed
an awful crime: he has been tried for that
crime; the verdict of guilty has been re-
turned, and the court has passed sentence
in accordance with the law, and now he
stands upon the portals of death. There is
no inducement whatever for him to falsify
just before he takes the step which
launches him into eternity.” But that is
not the method pursued. They keep a
string upon him in a sense, in no dishonor-
able sense I will say with respect to the
county attorney, but he has seen fit in his
wisdom to bring him in here without a
trial, without a conviction, when it was
absolutely sure that he might be found
guilty; when there was not a shadow of
doubt upon the mind of the county attor-
ney that he was guilty; he might have
been brought in here and tried and con-
victed and sentenced. And such a man
as that then, if he claims that he has
found peace by seeking forgiveness at the
throne of grace for his crime, he might be
believed, because his testimony would be
surrounded by these solemn circumstances
which would tend to impress its truthful-
nCSS On you.
“But no, this is not the course that is
pursued. They take the main that they
know absolutely, in accordance with his
own statement, to be guilty, and bring him
here to take the life of the man that is
guilty according to their theory. So much
for Claus A. Blixt.
“There is another peculiar witness that
has been introduced by the state to prove
guilty knowledge on the part of the de-
fendant here and complicity in this crime,
and that is Adry Hayward.
“He is peculiar in many respects. He
has led, in accordance with his own testi-
mony, and testimony that will hereafter
be introduced, a shiftless and eccentric
life. He was suspected of complicity and
of guilty knowledge in this case, and was,
in the early stages of the investigation,
placed under arrest. He was run through
what one of the prosecution's witnesses
calls the “sweat process,”-the high court
of inquisition, and at last he was induced
to make a statement implicating his
brother. - -
“He has shown upon the witness stand,
although he did not in his direct examina-
tion, the enmity and jealousy of an elder
brother.
“I do not know hardly how to charac-
terize the testimony which he has given
in this case; appearances are something,
and you have had an opportunity of wit-
nessing him and of witnessing him on the
stand under cross-examination. In the
first place you will notice on direct exam-
ination he looked with what seemed to be
a pitying glance at his brother, and said
he did not blame him for making as good
a defense as he could. Further along in
the case when it was developed that he
had this deadly enmity and quarrels with
his brother, and that he had threatened
other members of the family, he looks over
to his brother and reproves him because
upon the face of the brother was a smile
of incredulity at some of the statements
he had made. And without a blush of
shame or mortification upon his lips, on
cross-examination, he looks into the re-
fined but sad and pathetic face of his moth-
er sitting yonder and recites the conversa-
tion when he had a quarrel with her and a
quarrel with other members of the family,
and says to his mother who bore him and
who has watched over him with a tender
solicitude, as only mothers can, ‘Why did
you bring up such a litter of pups?”
“These little things are indices of charac-
ter, of which we will show you, gentlemen
of the jury, by evidence that we think you
will believe, that he has threatened more
than once to kill his father. We will show
you that his life has been a series of ec-
centricities and failures. He told you upon








































OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
211
the witness stand, upon cross-examination,
that he did go to the Pacific coast; that he
did write home to his parents to send him
money, and stating as a reason therefor
that they would throw stones off the tops
of the houses and kill him, or that they
would take him, steal him and impress him
into the service of ships and carry him off
upon the sea. It might have been a good
thing if they had, and then he might have
been compelled to have done some honest
work in his life.
“It has been intimated by the principal
counsel for the defense in this case that he
intended to introduce evidence showing
that Adry Hayward was a man with an
insane diathesis, subject to these insane
delusions. Medical experts, both for the
state and the defense, have watched him,
and I presume will examine him. We pro-
pose to introduce testimony showing that
in the line of his ancestors there have been
no less than six or seven insane people,
and that they have been confined in the
insane asylum.
“Now, gentlemen of the jury, there has
been a great deal of surmising whether
this evidence would be used in relation to
Harry Hayward or not. We believe that
Harry Hayward is much more sane than
Adry is.
“Gentlemen, the question that you will
naturally ask is, “What is the theory of
the defense?” The defense has no theory,
heories have hung a million innocent
men. When the prosecution starts out with
a certain theory, gathers what evidence
will fit the theory and rejects everything
that will not fit into it, it is unfortunate,
to say the least. I want you to remember
that one of the safeguards with which
the defendant in this case was surrounded
when he was brought in here, and when
he pleaded to that indictment, was the pre-
Sumption of his innocence.
“The fact that he was arrested and
charged with a crime should not militate
against him. The law says that the fact
that an ex-parte examination is made by
the grand jury and an indictment found
against him shall not militate against him
He comes into this court room just the
same as he comes from the rooms of his
father and mother in the Ozark flats, and
that bulwark of protection surrounds him
and will remain with him until the time
when you shall come to consider your ver-
dict in this case.
“We are not compelled to bring into
court the actual murderer in this case;
that is for the state, and they are paid for
their services. We come in here and plead
not guilty to that indictment, and you will
be instructed by the honorable court in
this case that before you can find a con-
viction you must be convinced in your
minds beyond a reasonable doubt that this
man is guilty.
“In civil cases simply a preponderance of
the evidence governs the question of which
way the verdict shall go; in criminal cases
you must be convinced beyond a reasonable
doubt, and that is a protection, that is a
right, that is a privilege, that is a consti-
tutional bulwark, that is a buttress up
against the defendant, and he cannot be
denied these rights and privileges.
*Counsel for the state must corroborate
Blixt, sufficiently so that you will believe
the story of Blixt. They have now aban-
doned the South Minneapolis trip, that is
one part of his testimony that has fallen
to the ground, or at least they have not
attempted to establish it, so that is one part
of the story that has fallen in and we will
bury it.
“Then, gentlemen of the jury, we will at-
tempt, and I believe we will succeed, in
establishing an absolute alibi as to the
alleged meeting of Blixt and the defend-
ant in this case on the Kenwood boulevard
between half past 7 and 8 o'clock on the
fatal evening of Dec. 3, 1894.
“They have proved by their own wit-
nesses that about half past 7 in the evening
Harry T. Hayward was in the basement
of the Ozark flat from 25 minutes past 7
to half past 7, the time not exactly re-
membered. It has been proved by Miss
Ireland, a witness who has been upon the
stand, that from half past 7 to perhaps 25
minutes of 8 Harry T. Hayward was in
her room making certain inquiries. It will
be proved by the father and mother in this
case that at 25 minutes of 8 or thereabouts
Harry T. Hayward came into their rooms,
and then it is proved by the state's witness,
Adry Hayward, that from 17 to 23 minutes
of 8 Harry T. Hayward was in his room:
And then we will prove by evidence that
you will not for a moment doubt, that from
five to seven minutes of 8 o’clock he was
at the residence of a reputable attorney in
this city, who will testify to that fact, and
that he accompanied his daughter to the
theater. We will prove that he was there
at the theater and that he returned home
at about the time proved by the prosecution
in this case.
“Gentlemen, if we can prove that, what
will there be left of the false testimony of
Claus A. Blixt? Simply that he killed the
woman, and that Harry Hayward, the de-
fendant in this case incited him to do it.
That is all there will be left.
*We propose also to uncover everything-
to bring to light some of the testimony
that has been in possession of the county
attorney's office.
“There was brought to the attention of
the city authorities on either the night
that Adry or Claus A. Blixt made his con-
fession the fact that a very suspicious man
had been stopping at a certain place in
this city, and that his conduct had been
such as to justify the belief that he had
guilty knowledge if he did not actually
participate in this murder. They had re-
ceived these statements of Claus A. Blixt—-
the gentlemanly Claus A. Blixt—and they
did not want anything further, they told
this man to keep his mouth shut.
“There was found by the sheriff of the
county, on the shores of yonder lake im-
mediately after the murder, a suit of
clothes, perhaps spotted with blood; they
have not been brought into this case, we
believe they will be.
“In short, gentlemen of the jury, we ex-
pect to throw all the light upon this case
that is possible to throw upon it. If any
of you are ever acused of crime in a
large and poulous city where a large force
of detectives is employed, and where the
ground has all been raked over before you
have had an opportunity to employ coun-
sel, you may then appreciate something
of the difficulties which your counsel may
have to compass in the case that is made




212
CEFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
out by the state. Every man that is sup-
posed to have known anything about the
case has told what he knows; his testi-
mony has been received and the others
have been shut up. They were exceedingly
fortunate yesterday in having discovered
a new witness, one that had kept her
mouth shut with the exception of telling
it to one person, until she was placed on
the witness stand. But it is very rare
that a witness of that kind can be found.
“It is not necessary or essential for us
to clear our client in this case to prove
who did commit the murder—I Would to
God that we could.
“You have had an opportunity of viewing
these witnesses, noticing their manner, and
will be able to judge of how much credit
shall be given to her testimony.
“It is the privilege, gentlemen of the
jury, for the defendant in this state in a
criminal trial, to take the stand in his own
behalf if he desires to do so; but you can-
not take from him his private papers; you
cannot compel him to divulge the secret
of his heart; though you may be sure he is
guilty. And you cannot, if he declines
to take the stand, comment upon that
fact before the jury, because it has been
held over and over again that that was
ground for a new trial. But, gentlemen of
the jury, we have nothing to conceal; the
defendant in this case will take the stand
in his own behalf, and he will tell you
all the relations between himself and Cath-
erine Ging. And he will confront this testi-
mony of Blixt, and this testimony of Adry
Hayward, because that is practically all
there is in this case—the testimony of these
two men.
“It has been commented upon, although I
have not the right to call your attention
to the fact where the comments came from
—comments are not in evidence—that Harry
T. Hayward, the defendant in this case,
has shown an indifference during the pro-
gress of the trial. If he had broken down
and shown the mortal fear of the coward,
Claus A. Blixt, why, you would have said
at once there is the evidence of a guilty
conscience.
“As stated by Mr. Hall in his opening
address to the jury, Harry T. Hayward has
moved in good society in this city, and
aside from the fact, which was known
only by a few, that he gambled, he stood
well. There has been nothing against his
reputation; he comes into this court in
this way, and he is confronted by the tes-
timony of deadly enmity on the part of his
brother Adry, and the perjured evidence of
a man who is trying to cover the track of
his confederates–Claus A. Blixt.
“Every witness in this case who has
given false testimony—every witness in this
case who has misrepresented in the least—
every witness in this case who has with-
held any of the truth, gentlemen of the
jury, has violated the command of Al-
mighty God, thundered forth from Mount
Sinai, that “Thou shalt not kill.”
“This is a serious charge. I presume that
you, as I have done myself, heard with
awe some of the testimony in this case.
“It is not necessary that I should go any
further into details as to the testimony
which we expect to introduce. Both the
prosecution and the defense are satisfied
with this jury. It will require painstaking
efforts on your part to sift out the false
from the truth. I wish to state that some
of the evidence that has been obtained
from Harry T. Hayward by force and com-
pulsion, we might have objected to its in-
troduction here on the ground that the con-
stitution of this state guarantees to a man
the privilege of not being compelled to tes-
tify against himself. I may put my hands
into your pockets as an officer of this city
and steal incriminating evidence against
you, and if permitted to be used in the trial
of a criminal action it is just as much com-
pelling you to be a witness against your-
self as though you took the stand and the
answers to questions criminating in their
character were extorted from you.
“We have not objected to their introduc-
tion. And I want you to hear us witness in
the trial of this case that we wish all the
light, all the correspondence, all of the
facts come out in evidence here before
you.
“It is indeed with great trepidation that
I have appeared before you this morning
to speak to you in behalf of the defendant.
I have stood in a court room where great
amounts of money were involved in civil
cases; I have in my lifetime but rarely
defended persons accused of crime; but
never in my life have I been placed in the
position which I am placed today, defend-
ing a person where the issue of life and
death is involved. And it is with the great-
est reluctance that I stand before you for
this reason—I fear I may say something
that I ought not to say, or that I may omit
to say something which in justice and good
conscience I ought to say to you in order
to influence your mind. But you under-
stand, gentlemen of the jury, we do not
come before you asking for sympathy. We
ask that the sunlight of God’s eternal truth
may be made to shine into every part of
this complicated and remarkable case, and
that nothing which may tend to throw light
upon it will be kept out. And then when
the final hour shall come you will be the
judges in your conscience, as to whether the
defendant in this case is guilty or not
guilty.
“You will then be called upon to judge
as to whether the defendant in this case
shall go to the gallows or return to his
aged father and mother in the Ozark flats.
And all I ask, gentlemen of the jury, is
that the guilding and controlling influence
of God’s wisdom may rest in your hearts,
enabling you to search out the truth, and
praying that heaven's benediction may rest
upon you in your deliberation, and that
your verdict shall be such that in after
years, when the excitement and passions of
this trial may have passed away, that you
may not have the awful reflection in your
soul that you have sent into eternity an in-
nocent man.
John F. Walsh.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Where do you reside? A. At the
Hennepin county morgue.
Q. On the night of Dec. 3 did you see
the body of a woman you afterwards as-
certained to be Miss Ging, Catherine Ging?
A. Yes, sir. I think it was about 10 min-
utes to 11. It was brought there in the
patrol wagon by two police officers. We
brought the body into the morgue and laid
the body on a slab and I undressed and
afterwards washed the body. The left eye
was gouged out to about there, down on
the cheek, and there was a mark on the
































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 213
nose; the nose was slightly bent to the left,
and the lip was cut through on the right
side. That was the only marks that I dis-
covered. The hands had mittens on as I
remember. There was not but very little
blood on the face, down the left cheek, I
think, if I remember right. There was
very little blood on the chin until I turned
the body over, then the blood ran out of
the mouth and nostrils. She had a seal
skin cloak on. It came down to the hips,
just below the hips.
Q. Well, the hair, do you remember how
it was? A. Yes; the hair was pretty near-
ly all hanging down.
Q. What was the condition of the hair
as to blood, brain matter? A. Oh, I don’t
think there was any brain matter on the
hahr. There was quite a little blood on the
hair; that is, this portion back here (indi-
cating). I don’t think there was any blood
up here.
Q. Was the hat upon the head or off the
head? A. It was simply lying on the head
when I saw it in the patrol wagon, simply
lying on the head.
Q. Was it fastened to the head with an
ordinary hair pin, or any strings to it?
A. No, sir.
Mr. Nye-I object to that as immaterial,
what the position of the hat was at that
time in reference to the head; it had been
taken off before they came there.
The Court–No I don’t think it is ma-
terial.
Q: What I want to bring out was wheth-
er the hair or the hat contained a pin
which the ladies use to fasten the hat on
through a coil of their hair, whether it
was in the hat or in the hair, or whether
it was missing? A. I think it was in the
hat.
Q. This pin was a long pin which passed
through the hat? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What was the condition of the clothes
with regard to being torn, soiled or dis-
arranged, that is evidence of violence, any-
thing of the kind—what was their con-
dition? A. I think the clothes were in
perfect order. The sealskin sacque was
pretty well saturated with blood on the
right side—I may say the whole right side
was saturated with blood. It was pretty
well saturated with blood down to the
waist. I can’t be positive about that
though. You could not tell very much
about the blood on the fur coat. It was
more on the right side than it was on the
left.
Q. As I understand there was but very
little blood upon the left side? A. I don’t
think there was but very little.
Q. Was there any brain matter mixed
with the blood upon the right side, par-
ticles of white? A. I don’t think there was;
I did not notice any.
Q. Was there any brain matter upon a
portion of the neck, which had come from
the wound? A. I did not see any.
Q. As I understand it, the lady wore
what they call a waist, something fastened
with a band about the waist? A. A shirt
waist, I think it is called,
Q. Where did that open, upon the front
or back, or upon the shoulder? A. Upon
the front. I don’t think there was any
Breat amount of blood on it, except up
around the collar there was some blood.
Q. Beneath the waist after it was re-
moved, what garments did you find? A.
Why, corsets, I guess.
Q. State what condition you found them
in—were they any way torn open, or were
the eyes and fastenings complete, when
• you undressed her 2 A. If I remember
right they were all fastened. I don’t think
there was any blood on the corsets, I don’t
remember of seeing any.
Q. What did you find beneath the cor-
sets upon removing them—what clothing?
A. A combination suit of underwear, I
think.
Q. Did the body have no linen upon it?
A.. I don’t remember.
Q. What was the condition of the under-
wear with regard to blood up above the
waist? A. There may have been a little
blood up around the top, but I don’t think
there was any blood on the lower part at
all.
Q. Was there any blood down the back
and saturated into them? A. I don’t think
so, I don’t remember.
Q. Beneath the combination suit was
there any silk or linen wrap of any kind?
A. No, sir, I don’t think so. I am pretty
positive there was nothing of that kind.
Q. Was there any blood upon the shoes
or stockings of the lady? A. No, sir; I
don’t remember of any being there.
Q. What was the condition of the face
as regards dirt? A. I don’t remember how
much dirt there was on the face. I don’t
think there was any mud on the face. If
there had been any considerable amount
I would have remembered it. I think
there was blood in the right ear, filling the
hollow of the ear with clotted blood. I
remember there was blood in the right ear,
but the amount I could not tell you.
Q. Did you find any locks of hair burn-
ed, torn or shot off, when you washed the
body? A. No, sir, I don't remember that
I did; if there was any I did not notice it.
Q. When you washed the body was the
Wound in the ear above the rim of the
hair's growth, or was it below? A. I did
see that wound at first; not for fully a
half hour afterwards. -
Q. When you washed the body did you
wash the hair? A. Well, I sponged off the
face, I don’t think I washed the hair any.
Q. When you washed the body did you
find any blood upon the back of the body?
A. I don’t think there was any—I don’t
remember. -
Q. Was there any upon the front of the
body? A. No, sir, not as I remember of.
Q. What did you do with the clothing?
A. Why, I put them in a box that we have
got there for that purpose and I turned it
over to the undertaker the next day.
Q. Was it in the same condition when
you turned it over as when you received
it? A. The clothing, yes, sir.
Q. And you turned over all the clothing,
including the seal skin sacque? A. Every-
thing. There was not everything turned
over; we afterwards found two of the but-
tons that belonged in her shirt waist in the
back room, and I turned them over to ex-
Sheriff Ege.
Q. Now, you say that when you un-
dressed the body you had to turn the body
over to remove the clothing, and you say
that the blood rushed from her nostrils
outh? A. Yes, sir.
*. º quantity of blood? A: Oh, ...
dºt know about the quantity; I know it



214 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
rushed out quite freely while I held the
body over in that position.
Q. So much so that you turned the body
back? A. Well, when I got the clothing
removed. I turned the body back.
CEROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye–
Q. Several times you used the expres-
sion, “If I remember right.” Now, there
are several features connected with the
examination that you haven’t a very clear
remembrance of, is there not, Mr. Walsh *
A. Yes, sir, there are a good many.
Q. Particularly in regard to her hair,
as to whether it was disheveled or done
up; you said if you remembered right a
portion of it was loose, that you thought
there was a pin on the right side of the
head? A. My recollection is that there
were two hairpins on the right side.
Q. You also have a clear recollection of
saturated condition of the hair in the reg-
ion of the wound, have you not? A. Why,
no. I know there was, and may have
been blood in her hair.
Q. You were also asked if on the seal-
skin sacque you discovered any white mat-
ter, such as brain matter, and you were
not positive that you did? A. No, sir, I
am not. There might have been.
Q. Did you make any close or accurate
examination in regard to that? A. No,
sir, I didn't. I will state, at that time I
did not know it was a murder at all; I did
not know anything about that.
Q. Well, you did not make such a care-
ful examination of the hair as would re-
veal the fact whether it was burned or
scorched about there, or not? A. No, sir,
I did not.
Terrence Connelly
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Walsh stated that he delivered
to you certain clothing, which was found
upon the body of Miss Ging, among which
was a hat, a dress, a sealskin coat, and
so on; did he deliver them to you? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Well, of that clothing please produce
the hat? (Witness produces hat.) Was
it in that condition with the blood marks
on it, the same condition as it is now,
when you got it? A. Yes, sir, the same
condition, only the blood was fresh.
Q. Could you tell that those marks upon
the hat were blood marks? A. Yes, sir.
(The jury here examined the hat.)
Q. Has the sealskin sacque been washed
since it was taken from the body? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Please produce the sealskin sacque.
(Witness produces sealskin sacque.)
Q. Who was this washed by ? A. Bennet
& Co., I think, on Nicollet avenue.
Q. was the lining cut out at the time it
was washed? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Then, I will simply exhibit
this sacque to the jury to show its size;
you cannot see its condition as to blood,
because it was washed, simply the size and
particularly the collar.
Q. This sacque has been thoroughly
cleaned since you received it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the lining taken out? A: Yes,
sir.
Q. You have that lining here? A: Yes, sir,
the lining has not been touched or washed;
it has just been taken out.
Mr. Erwin–I will offer the lining in evi-
dence.
(The jury was here shown the lining of
the sealskin cloak.) -
Q. Is that sacque what they call a single
breasted or double breasted sacque? A. It
is a single breasted cloak. It loops over to
the right.
Q. Then the right loops over the left?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–I call the jury's attention to
the fact that the sacque apparently loops
over from the right side to the left, and
that the distance between the loops is
about three inches, apparently. And I
would like to ask Mr. Walsh a question,
your honor, at this time.
The Court—You may do so.
Mr. Erwin–Mr. Walsh, was the sacque
looped up when the body was brought to
you? A. Yes, sir, from top to bottom.
Mr. Erwin–Now, in this connection, I
want the jury to examine the lining thor-
oughly.
The Court—Well, they will have time to
examine it when they go into their room,
we cannot take up the time now.
Q. What are these, the cuffs? A. Yes,
sir, they are the cuffs, they were just taken
off.
Mr. Erwin–I will offer in evidence the
shoes and stockings; there is no need of
examining them and we will not do so at
this time.
Q. And the veil, is that the veil that
was handed to you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Same condition as when handed to
you? A. Well, it was on the hat—I took
the veil off the hat and two hat pins.
Q. The veil was on the hat? A. Yes,
sir; it was just stuck on the hat.
Q. Describe to the jury how it was on
the hat. A. Why, these pins were in the
hat, and it was just caught on the pin.
Mr. Erwin–Before this veil is handled
and the cloth broken, I want to show it to
the jury, to show them its torn condition
and the clots upon it.
(Mr. Erwin here exhibited the veil to the
jurors.)
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, there is
blood upon the skirt, so I am informed, and
I would like to have the jury examine it.
The Court—It will take from now to
noon to examine it, and we will now take
an adjournment until 2 o’clock p. m.
AFTERNoon session, FEB. 14.
Terrance Connelly, Jr.
Examination resumed by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Please open the package. A. It is
in the same condition as to dirt, dust and
blood as when given to me.
Mr. Erwin–I will call your attention that
the dirt is on the front and right side of
the skirt. This is the waist. Take hold of
that sleeve and hold it up. (Witness does
so.) I want to call attention to the fact
that blood is all over her sleeves and back
in spots. I want to show the top of the
underwear, the shirt here. This is the top
of the shirt of a combination suit. The
right mitten I put in evidence, with its
mark of dirt on the outside of the mitten,
and on the inside marked with blood spots.
Q. These was but one mitten? A: That
is all. The right mitten.
Mr. Erwin–This is the skirt, gentlemen,
Here is where it went through the skirt.
That is on the right side. On the left side
none, except on the rear. There is the







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 215
right side of the corset. On the outside of
the corset, right side, corresponding to the
right arm of the waist. (Witness exhibits
same to jury.) Now, the other side of the
corset, the left side of the corset, outside,
inside.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q: What time did you get the clothes?
A. About 9:30 or 10 in the morning, the
next morning. They were in a cupboard,
and I took them out and wrapped them up
some, and done them up, in the skirt.
Q. Did they remain wrapped together
that way for some length of time? A.
Yes, sir. When I took them from the
morgue, they were all wet with blood. The
coat was very much so. The blood was on
the right side of the back. It run from the
collar here down that way and did not
touch the sleeves to amount to anything,
and it went into the waist here, and then
it came out. There was a good deal here
and then down to the foot, where she had
been sitting on it. There was also blood
down there, where that is rough, that they
had got out very well. Then this collar
was turned up that way, and I should
judge from about back here where that
would be, it run over the collar both that
way and back this way, this run down all
this seal front here, where it is so rough,
all the way down. But of course it come
from the front here, and it did not go
right straight down, because when it got
to here, it would go off in this direction.
But the collar, that is, that side of the
collar, just as bloody as could be. It
commenced to get hard and then there
was blood in here and blood down in the
front, where it comes together there.
Q. The place on the collar, I understood
you, where there was indication of marks
of burning? A. Right here. It was plain-
er then, of course, than it is now, because
since it has been cleaned the ends of the
fur that have been burned have been taken
off, and then you could see it plainer.
Henry L. Getchell
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin:
I am a sergeant of police, in charge of
the Fifth precinct Dec. 3 last.
Q. Did you include the territory of this
murder? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you about 12:30 a. m. on
that morning, Dec. 4, about 30 minutes af-
ter midnight, that night? A. The foot of
Lowry Hill. There was a telephone box
there.
Q. What instructions did your receive
there? A. They told me there had been a
suicide or murder up there—they did not
know which—and to go out and investigate
it. I took Officer Fay with me and drove
out there. I found Officers Plummer and
Bean near there. They took the right of
the road, Minnetonka road. They came
where the murder was along 15 or 20 min-
utes after we got there, and came down
on the Excelsior road afterwards. I went
to Ehrhart's house and Naegle's and in-
quired there if they had been where the
murder was. They did not know there was
a murder, at the time, or a suicide, what-
ever it was, or where the body was found,
and I went back there.
Q. How big a pool of blood did you find
there? A. I don’t know. I could not tell.
The wagon had been there and they moved
the body from there, and more or less had
been kicked over. It was never so we
could tell. We found the traveled path a
little side back towards the lake.
Q. That would be on the right hand side
going down from there? A. Yes, sir. It
is a new graded road. The main traveled
road was hard. In fact, the whole of it
was hard, but there was a sand dust on top
of that. I don't know how deep, what
you would call a dusty road.
Q. Did you examine that locality for
tracks? A. I found the track of two bug-
gies and patrol wagon where they had
turned around there; the patrol wagon
turned this side of the body. There was
another buggy turned this way still from
the patrol wagon, and one turned about 40
or 50 feet the other side of the body.
Q. Which was the lighter track of all
three ? A. The one that turned furthest
beyond the body from where the body would
lie.
Q. Now, I suppose you found many foot-
prints on the road around where the body
had lain 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have a police lantern ? A.
Yes.
How may yards beyond the body,
where the body was found, was this light
track? A. About 40 or 60 feet, may be fur-
ther. It turned to the left, came around
and turned around a little to the right and .
turned in this way toward the lake and
came in down again.
Q. Where did it come in the beaten path?
A. This side where the body lay, about
where the patrol wagon is, a little further.
After it had turned around to the left it
had kept upon what we call the left hand
side of the road, looking downwards until
it got clear past the body and past where
the other wagon turned around.
Q. What kind of a track was this wheel
track? A. A light buggy—that is, narrow
tire—a little lighter, I thought at the time,
than the other. The most of the tracks
were around where the body lay. We
found tracks beyond where this buggy
turned, and we found more tracks this side,
where the body lay, to the right of the
road. That is, this around where the body
was was trodden down so it was hard to
distinguish one track from another. Around
on the right hand side of the road is where
those pointed toed shoe tracks were that
they talk about. That was this side of the
body.
Q. Did you find any track of a man that
went with a buggy in its turning around?
A. No, sir, nothing that I can say that
went with the buggy. The tracks that were
separate and distinct from those around
the body were those that walked along side
the road this side of the body, and the
others we could not tell anything about.
They were as though some one had been
walking around there, from one point to
the other; could not tell anything about
it.
Q. Did you make a statement before Mr.
Sweetser, here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Some distance beyond where this body
was found, 40 or 60 feet, you found this
track? A. Yes.
Q. Now, out where this last rig turned,
did you say any of the prints were made
by a shoe with rather a broad toe? A. I
said before there were several there, as if
some one had turned around there, walk-
ing, something of that kind, as if they had
been talking with somebody in the rig.



216
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Objected to. Sustained.
Q. How did it appear to you at that
time in connection with the track of the
buggy? A. I thought possibly it might
have been the way of it; still, I could not
Say.
Q. Now, then, down a little this side of
the body, did you see any tracks on the
side of the road? A. Yes, sir, on the right
as you go out. The nearest track of that
kind we could find was, may be, eight or
ten feet from the body; looked as though
they had stopped there and looked toward
the body and walked away down there—
something of that kind; could see where
they stopped, and further back could see
more tracks. They were about a No. 8
shoe, with pointed toe, as near as I can de-
scribe it.
Q. I will ask you if you interviewed and
saw the persons that were out with a rig,
out with the patrol wagon, and with the
doctor? A. I have. I found three men
that had on that kind of shoes.
Mr. Erwin–Where were you about 8
o'clock or a little before on the evening of
the murder? A. Going down Lake street
on Portland avenue, along in there. Yes,
sir, I met a rig there; a top buggy. The
horse I could not give a good description
of. The buggy was a very light buggy—
that is about all I could say in regard to
that; curtains up. I have seen and exam-
ined the rig that was out that night with
Miss Ging and Blixt.
Q. How do they compare, the two rigs
together? A. The only way to compare
them is, they were both light buggies.
Q. Where was this buggy that you saw?
A. When I first saw it it was standing be-
side the street, facing towards Calhoun in
the direction west.
The Court—Whereabouts is that? A. Be-
tween Fifth and Portland on Lake street,
near Portland. When I got pretty close
to it, it swung into the street and went by
me, going ahead, going out to the lake
west. There were people in the buggy. I
heard their voices. I did not hear the
man's voice. I heard the voice—what I
thought was the lady's voice—talking loud;
that was all. I could not understand any-
thing said. The buggy passed me. When
the buggy passed me he looked out and I
kind of looked around at it. That was
about all. When I passed on this side of
him he swung into Lake street and I came
right on this side of him. I was on my
horse and I got off and looked up this way.
As near as I could tell, he wore a mus-
tache and a cap. The woman was talking
quite loud.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
By Mr. Nye.
Q. That road that you have described on
the shore of the lake where the body was
found is known as the Excelsior road,
isn’t it? A. Yes, sir. It is quite a promi-
ment thoroughfare leading in and out of the
city. Yes, sir, it was dark that night when
I was there. I made all observations with
a lantern.
Q. How light was it on Lake street near
Fifth and Portland when you saw the rigº
A. There was a small moon shining in this
direction, it was not very light. The lights
were not burning on account of the moon.
The night at that hour was quite dark. The
horse was standing when I first saw it.
Q. You are not sure it was a woman in
the buggy? A. Not sure, as I said before.
I heard the voice. At that early hour in the
evening Lake street is a very much fre-
quented street of the city. There is scarcely
five minutes from 8 o'clock in the morning
to 8 in the evening but what you can see
a covered buggy on that street. Any one
of which I could not distinguish at that
hour of the night from this one.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Is it often that you see a buggy going
along there, with a woman's voice, loud
talking, at that time of night? A. Well,
it is nothing strange. We see most every-
thing in the way of buggy rides out in
that direction. This rig compares with
that outside so far as the light buggy is
concerned. I could not swear. I could not
describe the horse thoroughly. I had seen
things of the kind before. I thought it
was some little love a qair, the same as
I have seen, in the same way. I reported
it to my captain the following morning.
John F. Walsh.
recalled. Examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. I show you the waist, they call it
the waist, that was on Miss Ging—the
blood that was upon the front, I will ask
you was that on at the time that you com-
menced to wash the body? A. I think af-
ter. I took the coat off and turned the body
over to pen this, the blood from the mouth
and nostrils got on there. My recollection
is there was not any blood, only right up
here when I opened the coat. There was
blood on the collar. I turned the body over
on the left side, towards the left side.
And then some blood poured out of the
mouth and nostrils. My recollection is
that there was not any blood when I open-
ed up the coat, only up there in that
collar.
Lincoln Bean
sworn. Examined by Mr. Erwin.
I am a police officer. I went with Of-
ficer Plummer on the night that the body
was found.
Q. Went out there for the purpose, did
you not, of looking up the circumstances
and surroundings of that accident or mur-
der, whichever it was? A. We found the
track where the patrol wagon had turned,
and the track where the buggy had turn-
ed, near the patrol wagon, and on beyond,
between 50 and 100 feet, we found another
buggy track that had turned from the
main traveled road, off into that part of
the road that was not traveled so much,
and that rig had turned around and come
back. And near where the body lay it al-
most touched the well traveled road.
There was two places that looked like peo-
ple had stepped and tramped around, and
where the buggy had gone over these
tracks, one looked like it was in the rear
of the buggy and the other to the side.
The buggy track had passed over the
tracks. The first tracks were about the
middle turn, where it turns. Between 50
and 100 feet beyond where the body lay.
The tracks that the buggy went over there
had been so many of them, they stood
there so long, that you could not dis-
tinguish the tracks.
Q. Did you notice any peculiar footprints
near this particular buggy track at any
point, and if so, what were they and where
did they go? A. After this narrow tired













OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
217
vehicle got into the street, this side of
the buggy, there was footprints going there
down at about 10 feet this side of the body.
It left the road and went onto the side
where it was sod and proper travel, for
two or three feet and got out into the road
again. These were the narrow pointed
shoes. They were about a No. 8 or 9–7 or 8.
Tapering toes to them. They were on
the right hand side. So much cm the
right hand side that they had left the
track and gone intoi the grass, and then
went out again? The patrol Wagon
turned about 10 feet from the body where
it lay Another buggy had turned around?
And also a third buggy near the
tracks ... of the patrol wagon. One
buggy turned around between 50 and
100 feet beyond where the body apparently
ſaid, and in turning around, either passed
over these two places where the tracks
were, as though a person had stood there
for quite a while. One of those places was
in the rear of the buggy, and the other
was to the right hand side of the buggy,
if the buggy was coming this way, which
It was. After passing this second spot
where the tracks lay, the buggy gradually
came towards the road until four or five
feet the other side of where the body
lay, and it followed along with the left
hand wheel nearly in the well beaten road,
until it got to the other side of the body
where it verged into the road. The tracks
of this buggy passed over near the body.
To the place of the blood, it probably was
about two feet. It was between 1 and 2
o'clock when I examined the tracks.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Do you think that track coming this
way, from where it turned came onto the
beaten track this side of where the body
lay? A. Yes, sir. It was about three or
four feet and we could not follow it very
well, because there are so many tracks there
this side of the body. A great many peo-
ple had been there about the body, judg-
ing by the appearance of the tracks around
the body. While the other officers were
gone up to Erhardt's house I was looking
around with a lantern and found the nar-
row toe tracks. No means taken to pre-
serve them. -
Mr. Nye-You mean the pointed shoe
tracks?
R. A. Plummer
Sworn.
Examined by Mr. Erwin.
Mr. Erwin–Are you a police officer? A.
Yes, sir. I was at Twenty-sixth street the
night of the homicide. About 11 o'clock 1
found out that there was an accident. i.
went to the station and found out there had
been a murder committed out to Lake Cal-
houn, and I was ordered out. I and offi-
cer Bean took a buggy and went out.
We found the spot where the body" had laid
and also the place where the patrol wagon
had turned, and another buggy had turned.
Also found steps about 50 feet, where the
body lay, 50 or 60 feet, may be, where
the buggy had turned off to one side of
the road, and it was turning back, and
between the wheels the ground was tracked
up a good deal where somebody stopped.
* know that there is anything fur-
Iſler.
Mr. Erwin–I cannot lead the witness.
I have got his statement here.
The Court–Let him state what he re-
members.
Mr. Erwin–Beyond where the patrol
wagon turned, about 50 feet, what did you
find? A. I find, as I stated, where the
buggy had turned off to one side. It looked
as though it was coming in from Excelsior,
and it turned off to the left of the road, a
very little, though, a little more than the
width of the buggy. I saw footprints. They
looked like a common shoe, rather wide, if
for an overshoe, but they were quite wide
shoes, may be an eight or nine shoe.
There was quite a few tracks there, as
though they had stepped around some.
Q. Did it indicate that the person had
stepped in there between those wheels? A.
It did.
Q. Did you see any pointed shoe tracks
there, and if so, where? A. I think I seen
two or three, about 30 or 40 feet this side,
near where we stopped our buggies; and
they were on the side of the beaten track,
the right hand side, going towards Excel-
Sior, as near as I can remember.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Footprints on the beaten portion of
the track would be hard to discern ? A.
Well, the footprints showed middling plain
where I saw the pointed toe shoes was on
the road in the beaten track where the
buggy wheels had run; the different
width of the buggies made a difference
there, those showed quite plain.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Well, why didn’t you investigate fur-
ther? A. Well, I did not know that I
had any particular cause to; the detectives
had the case, and we had to get through
with our duty there and had to go home–
had to go home and go to work.
John Foy
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Mr. Fay, what is your occupation?
A.. I am a police officer. About 12:30, on
Dec. 4, I think it was, I was at the foot of
Lowry Hill with Sergt. Getchell, and he
got a telephone message from headquar-
ters that there was an accident of some
sort out beyond Lake Calhoun, and to go
out there and investigate it. And I went
out there with him. We went up to Mr.
Ehrhardt's house, and found where this
murder or accident had happened, and it
was back this way from the house, and
we came down there, and I took a bull’s
eye lantern which I had with me, and
looked around there and found some buggy
tracks. We found the patrol wagon had
turned, or we supposed it was the patrol
wagon, this side of where the blood was
on the road, and also saw where another
buggy had turned also, and beyond where
the blood was in the road was where
one buggy had turned, and another buggy
that came down the road and kind of
turned out from the main traveled road.
There were a great many footprints
where people had been walking around
there. And the buggy that turned clean
around, there was quite a number of tracks
there, and this buggy that stopped there,
there was quite a few tracks there; might
have been made by one person, but it was
pretty well beaten around there. Where



218
OFFICIAL ST ENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
the buggy stopped there were tracks, seem-
ingly along the side of the buggy, the side
toward the lake, and there were tracks un-
derneath the buggy, pretty well over to-
wards the other side, and pretty well un-
derneath the buggy–tramped all around
there for six feet, or such a matter.
Q. Did they indicate that those tracks
had been made while the buggy was stand-
ing there? A. Well, the tracks that were
there might have been made by one man
or by a party who was talking with an-
other party in the buggy; but as far as I
know they were all quite well over—well,
right underneath the buggy. A man could
have talked with a party in the buggy and
who might have made some of those tracks
but they were all around there. But the
man who made the other tracks could not
have talked with a man in the buggy, be-
cause they were right underneath or pretty
well over on the other side.
Q. How far west of the place where the
body was, was this condition of things? A.
Oh, it might have been 50 or 60 or 70 feet,
such a matter. I had a lantern and I could
not tell much about it. There were tracks
all around there. As if there had been one
main or two men walking a good deal, or
a good many men walking at that point.
It might have been 70 feet or less of where
the body was found.
Q. Now, what kind of foot prints was it
that tramped this place about 70 feet west
of this body? A. Well, it was pretty wide
toes, not very wide, but one of those point-
ed toes, it was about half round. It looked
as though it was a number eight or num-
ber nine, it was an average sized foot, I
should judge.
Q. How far was that from where the
light rig had turned around west of the
body? A. Well, it was within a few feet;
well, it was right where it turned around;
that rig turned towards the lake and it was
one side of the beaten road. -
Q. And how far west of this body did
this light rig turn ? A. Oh, probably 60 to
65 feet, such a matter. This light track
out there came around and turned this
way and passed within two feet of where
the body lay and turned around and wellº
into the beaten track and disappeared.
There were other foot prints, right close on
the other side.
Q. How far further west than the light
rig turned 2 A. Might have been a few
feet.
Q. And at that point beyond where the
light rig turned and came back to where
the body was found, at that point beyond
where there were many tracks as though
some one had stood there and talked? A.
It was right close to where the buggy
turned.
Q. Now, was the road in such a condi-
tion that you could distinctly note these ap-
pearances of tracks and footprints? A.
Well, you could tell the differences in the
wagons, that is in the buggies, you could
tell whether it was a quarter or half-inch
tire—anything of that kind.
Q. But you could distinctly note what
you have testified to ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. There is no mistake about that? A.
No, sir.
Q. Now, at what point did you see any
pointed shoetracks? A. Oh, probably six
or eight feet this side of where the blood
was in the road. On the right hand side.
I could not see any more; it seems as
though somebody walked up the road and
was looking at the blood; they didn’t go to
the right; they might have come back into
the beaten track; you could see that.
Mr. Nye-Where was that?
The Witness—About six feet this side of
where the blood was in the road.
Q. And which way were they pointed?
A. Towards the body—the blood.
Q. Towards Excelsior? A. Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Now, Mr. Fay, the tracks which you
describe in reference to the buggy tracks
which appeared to have turned out coming
this way from Excelsior, covered that por-
tion of the road which would be "covered
by a buggy usually? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you notice whether the wheel
tracks were continuos; that is, whether
the point where the wheel tracks showed
on this side of the footprints and the
other side were not continuous? A. Well,
it was pretty well beaten up down there;
I didn't notice, no, sir.
Q. As far as your observation went, they
were continuous, were they not? A. Yes,
sir. I saw no evidence or indication of any
break or planting in the buggy, or of the
wheels stopping, backing, anything like
that. So far as I could have observed the
tracks, they might have been made after
the vehicle passed.
Q. Now, I understand that there was a
track of where a buggy turned beyond the
body and just to almost intersect the point
where the footprint tracks that you have
described were 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You also stated that you saw tracks
pretty promiscously and generaly, even
between where the body lay and the point
where these tracks were so thick? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. As if parties searching the suround-
ings before you got there might have
walked from the blood spot in the road up
there and stopped and talked and dis-
cussed this question, and would have nat-
urally made these tracks? A. Well, it
might have been the party who was watch-
ing the body there; I don’t know; there
were tracks all around there.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin. -
Q. What did you report them for if they
might have been made by a party watch-
ing the body?
Mr. Nye-Well, that is objected to.
The Court—Who did he say was with
him?
The Witness—The sergeant was with me.
Q. Why did you report them if they were
not important? A. Well, I had this lan-
tern there, and was looking them over.
Q. Well, they were made by a person
who evidently stopped to talk with the
party in the buggy, were they not? A. I.
don’t know. I didn’t think so that night.
Some of those tracks seemingly were away
under the buggy—that is, pretty well to
the other side. They were underneath the
buggy, same as if you drove the buggy in
where the tracks were, and they were on
the lake, but they were all beaten down
there.
Merrill Bartlett
Sworn and examined by Mr. Sweetser.
Q. What is your business? A. I am *
bookkeeper for the Minneapolis Mill Com-





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 219
pany, and also head usher at the Grand.
Opera House in this city. I was on duty in
that position in the opera house on the
evening of December 3, 1894. My duties are
to look after the ushers there generally,
and to stay at the door and direct the
people as they come in where to go. Three
ushers are on duty on the ground floor,
the parquet and the parquet circle. One
at each of the aisles, the right, left and
center.
Q: Who was the one that was on duty
that night at the right hand aisle as you
go in 2 A. Charles Van Balkenberg. And
the center aisle, John Kelley. And the left
hand aisle, W. C. Brown.
Q. Do you remember whether you were
stationed at the auditorium door that even-
ing or not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are acquainted with the defend-
ant in this case, Harry Hayward? A. Yes,
sir. I have known him about 12 or 13
years.
Q. You remember, whether on that night
you saw him? A: I did.
Q. State where and when? A. He came
in at the door of the Grand Opera House
right close to 8:15 p. m., I could not say
within a few minutes of that time. He was
accompanied by a young lady. He had
tickets. He passed his tickets to Mr. Ed-
wards, or I took them at that time, I
could not say which. The checks were
torn off, and passed through my hand, I
know that. He passed into the right hand
aisle. -
How long did you see him that night?
A. Until he passed into the house, that
is, the auditorium proper. Few minutes'
time; just long enough for him to pass in.
Q. How long did he remain there after
that time at the outside door? A. Well,
I should say 10 or 15 minutes, probably.
By that time the greater portion of the
patrons of the house had come in. Anoth-
er person remained at the door when I
left, Mr. Edwards.
Q. Do you remember whether or not af-
ter Mr. Hayward went into the auditorium
you saw him again that evening? A. Yes,
sir, I did. He was sitting on the right hand
side in section C, I think. That was on the
extreme right of the house, in the parquet.
I should say probably half or two-thirds of
the way back. There was nothing particu-
larly to call my attention to him; I merely
noticed that I saw him there, that is all, I
do not remember whether I saw him more
than once after that, neither can I tell the
exact time. He was sitting with Miss Bar-
tleson. I am acquainted with her person-
ally. The company that was playing was
“A Trip to China Town.”
Q. Were you present at the time the en-
tertainment closed, when the people went
out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see Mr. Hayward at that
time? A. No, sir.
Q. Don't you remember of seeing him?
A. No, sir.
Q. From your position and where you
were stationed that evening, could you see
into the outer lobby?
The Court—It seems to me it is not neces-
sary to go into this so thoroughly.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, it is im-
portant in this respect, to connect the
Proof with the hour preceding and fix the
time, and we will prove when he left Mr.
Bartleson's house.
The Court—You cannot prove it by show-
ing how long it takes other people to get
tickets there.
Mr. Erwin–It is to corroborate what Mr.
Hayward will testify to, how long he was
in getting his tickets.
The Court—Well, if you have anybody
that knows how long he was in getting his
tickets, why it is proper testimony; but
you can't prove the ordinary custom there.
Q. Did you see Mr. Hayward just before
he came into this door where you were
stationed that night?A. No, sir.
Q. Can you state, Mr. Bartlett, how
large a crowd there was in this outside
lobby at the time Mr. Hayward came into
the door&s A. Well, as near as I could
state there were a good many out there.
All I could tell about it was when the door
was open I would get a glance of the outer
lobby from time to time.
Mr. Erwin–If there is any question about
this man's opinion we will take a piece of
paper and make a plat, and mark the dis-
tances on it, and the jury can take it as
well as this man’s opinion.
(The witness here made a plat of the
ground floor of the Grand Opera House, in-
cluding the outside lobby and marked the
distance thereon and explained the same
to the jury.)
Q. Now, will you take this pencil and
point out to the jury the location of the
rooms of which you have been speaking?
A. Yes, sir. (Indicating.)
Q. Now, at that time, from 8 o’clock to
8:15, when the entertainment was in pro-
gress, those people who had not bought
their tickets previously had to get them at
the box office, at this window? A. Yes,
sir. -
Q. Now, do you remember whether or
not that night in glancing out that door of
seeing large numbers of people? A. At
times, yes, sir.
Q. At or just previous to that time you
saw Harry Hayward come in 2 A. I should
judge there was a good many out there.
Q. How many would you say? A.
Twenty or thirty.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. The performance began at 8:15? A.
Yes, sir, or thereabouts within five minis
utes of that time—that is the usual time.
The greater part of thee rowd would be in
at that time more than half.
E. W. Murphy
sworn and examined by Mr. Sweetser.
Q. What is your business? A. Printing
business. I am a member of the firm of
Geesaman & Murphy. I remember the even-
ing of Dec. 3 last. I spent a part of it at
the Grand Opera House. I reached there
about 8:20. The curtain was up—the cur-
tain had been rung up at hat time.
Q. And how long did you remain there?
A. I should judge until 10:30. I remained
there until all of the people had got out.
Q. You may state whether or not you
saw Mr. Hayward that evening. A, I
saw him there, just as he was coming out,
right out in the foyer. I bowed to him—
he bowed to me first as he passed through
the foyer. He had a young lady with him.
I only saw Mr. Hayward that one time.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Has your acquaintance with him been




220
OFFICIAL STENOF RAPHIC REPORT
anything more than a passing acquaint-
ance? A. That is all.
Q. How long since you had seen him be-
fore that? A. Oh, I had seen him often.
Q. Well, the last time that you remem-
ber? A. I could not remember.
Q. He spoke to you first, you say? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Well, did it occur to you, any thing in
his mainer at that time, as being a little
singular that he should take the pains to
recognize you? A. Yes, it did; he made a
kind of eloquent bow—he is not in the
habit of doing that, not with me, anyhow.
Q. That was not the customary greet-
ing with you when you met him? A. No,
sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Sweetser.
Q. Mr. Murphy, had Mr. Hayward ever
se you in a box at he theater before? A.
I don’t know as he saw me that evening.
Ole Thorson
sworn.
Examined by Mr. Shoemaker.
Q. Where do you live? A. At 2216 Twelfth
avenue south. I am a married man.
Q. How many are there in your family?
A. Four, Jenie Thorson, and Mary Lar-
son are two small children.
Q. How long have you
lived at 2216
Twelfth avenue south? A. One year the last
of this month.
There are two floors in the house where I
live. It is a 2-story house. We live up-
stairs. I lived down stairs before. I moved
from the lower floor to the upper floor on
the 15th of September, '94.
Q. You don’t know the man's name who
had the upper floor before September, '94?
A. There was one man that used to live
there. I guess his name was Blum.
Q. Claus Blum? A. I don’t know. I got
up to that upper floor from the outside at
the back of the house. You go from the
street to this outside stairs. There is a
passage on the side of the house. The door
from the stairway opens into the kitchen.
The next room is a bedroom. The next
room from that is the front room. I was
home on the evening of Dec. 3. All of us
were at home. Mrs. Thorson and Miss Lar-
son went to bed about 8 or half past. I
went to bed about an hour or a half hour
after they did, I think. I am not certain
about the time. During the evening of
Dec. 3 some of us sat in the bedroom and
some of us in the front room. There is a
door opening from the bedroom into the
front room. The door was open that even-
ing. I slept in the bedroom next to the
kitchen.
Q. Now, can a person who is sitting in
what you call the kitchen hear a knock in
the front room 2
Mr. Nye-Objected to as calling for a con-
clusion of the witness.
The Court–Let him state the location of
the rooms.
Q. How large a room is this kitchen, Mr.
Thorson? A. I don’t know. About from
here over there, I guess.
Q. Now, Mr. Thorson, during the time
that you have lived there in that flat, from
September until now, have you often heard
people knocking at the door, this back
door, when you were in the front roomºs
A. Yes, sir. I didn’t hear anybody the 3d
of December, though. -
Q. And is there any way by which any
person coming to your place can get in be-
sides going through that back door? A.
Yes, sir. They have to come into the kitch-
en door; none except coming through the
kitchen.
Q. Now, on the night of Dec. 3, did you
hear anybody knock on that door? A. No.
sir, not on the 3d of December I did not
hear anybody there. There is one lamp
burning all night in the bedroom.
Q. Supposing that window over there was
the window in your bedroom, where would
the lamp be? A. It would be there by the
side of the window. (Indicating.) That
lamp burned all night on the night of Dec.
3. I was home on Dec. 7, 1894, when two
men called there at my house. They said
they were detectives.
Mr. Nye-That is objected to, what he
said to anybody else.
Mr. Shoemaker–We offer to show that
on the night of Dec. 7 two city detectives
called upon him and a full statement of
this matter of what he is going to testify
to was made to them.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Well, you generally all went to bed
early, didn't you? A. I go to bed from half
past 8 to half past 9.
Q. Well, generally about half past 8?
A. Yes, sir; half past 8–the lamp burns
all night in my room.
Q. Well, I ain't asking you about your
lamp now; I am asking you what time you
generally go to bed, and you say about
half past 8. You are tired nights, you
are working hard, and you retire early-
are you pretty hard of hearing? A. Yes,
sir.
A. I thought so. You could not hear an
ordinary knock at that door, could you, or
a loud one—how many people have been to
see you about this? A. I don't know, I did
not count them.
Q. You could not count them? A. No.
Q. Well, how many times have these law-
yers been there to see you, do you know?
A. No. -
Q. Did you make an affidavit for them-
do you know what an affidavit is—did you
have it all written down on paper and
swear to it? A. Yes, str.
Q. Is that what you signed? (Witness
shown paper.) A. Yes.
Q. Was there any paper read to you by
any officer or any person telling you to
come to court as a witness? A. Yes.
Q. when was that? A. Must be him,
guess. (Referring to Mr. Shoemaker.)
Q. Have you been paid anything yet? A-
No.
Q. Well, why don't you speak up-have
you or have you not been paid anything?
A. I do not understand English language
very well. I am a Norwegian.
Q. Have you been paid anything? A-
Where? -
Q. To come to court here? A. No.
Q. You are sure of that, are you? (No.
answer.)
Q. I would like to have you answer that
question now?
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, it seems
that this man don't understand the Eng-
lish language, and we will call him again



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
221
in the morning, and use an interpreter for
his testimony.
Mr. Nye-Well, I would like to have him
answer that question before morning, be-
fore he has time to think it over.
Q. Have you been paid anything for com
Q. Have you been paid anything for
coming here yet? (No answer from wit-
ness.)
Mr. Nye-Well, think it over until tomor-
row morning.
(The court here took a recess until 10
o'clock a. m., Beb. 15, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 15.
Ole Thorson
Cross-Examination resumed by Mr. Nye.
Q. You understood my question last
night, didn’t you, Mr. Thorson? A. Not
much.
Q. I asked you if you got anything for
coming here as a witness? A. I cannot
understand very clear English.
Q. You understood the lawyer that talked
to you on the other side of the table? A. I
cannot understand; not much.
Q. You understood the affidavit that you
signed? A. Yes.
Q. That is in English, ain’t it? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Was it read over to you?
The Court–Was it read to you before you
signed it?
Mr. Nye–Was it read to you so that you
knew what you were signing? A. Yes, sir;
over to the house, I guess.
Q. Can you tell me now whether you have
received anything, whether you have got
any pay for coming here? A. It must be
SO.
Q. How much º A.. I don’t know.
Q. Who paid you? A. There must be
some pay me—I don’t know.
Q. Who was the man that paid you?
Can you tell? A. No.
Q. How much was it—how much money?
The Court—How much did you get—an-
swer the question; we cannot wait here.
You understand that question, don’t you?
A. No.
The Court—You don’t understand it. Bet-
ter try an interpreter.
Mr. Charles Erickson was here sworn as
an interpreter, and the witness' remaining
evidence was taken through the interpreter.
Mr. Nye-Ask him how much pay he gets
for coming here as a witness? A. He says
he has not got anything yet.
Q. How much was he to get? A. He
don’t know yet, he says.
Q. What talk did he have about it? A.
He says there was three gentlemen that
come to him and asked him to come up.
Q. Ask him how much he is to have for
coming here as a witness. A. He says they
did not say how much he should get, but
they said he should get pay for it.
Q. Ask him if he is sure he was home
on the night of the 3d of December. A.
Yes, sir, he says that he was sure about
that.
Q. Ask him if he remembers what time
he went to bed. A. About half past 8 or
9 o'clock.
Q. Ask him if he generally goes to sleep
just about as soon as he goes to bed. A.
He said he laid about an hour or half an
hour, or an hour sometimes, and half an
hour sometimes, and sometimes an hour.
Q. Does he remember how it was that
Monday night, Dec. 3. A. He says he lay
about half an hour, or probably a little
more time before he fell asleep.
Q. Ask him if he is sure about that. A.
Yes, he is sure; he laid awake about a half
hour.
Q. What makes him remember that
night? A. He says he cannot state any
certain amount, but he was laying awake
about a half hour before he fell asleep.
Q. Ask him who sleeps with him? A. His
wife.
Q. Where was this other lady, what is
her name, Miss Larson, where did she
sleep? A. She slept in a separate bed for
herself in the same room.
Q. Had either of those women gone to
bed, or both of them, before he went to
bed? A. He says they generally used to
go to bed before he did, and they had
done it that night, too.
Q. Does he remeber whether his wife
was asleep when he went to bed? A. No,
he says she was awake.
Q. Was the door between the kitchen
and the bedrom closed when they went to
bed; is it their habit to close it? A. The
door was closed up at night, he says. They
generally burned a light the whole night,
winter and summer, a kerosene lamp.
The Court–Was the curtain up? Do
they keep the curtain up, or down in the
bedroom? A. It was closed down, he
SayS. -
Mr. Nye-What kind of a curtain was it, .
a shade, something like one of these back
there? (Indicating the curtain in court
room.) A. Some kind of green shade.
Mr. Erwin–Ask him the time when he
gave his affidavit, at the time that he
signed the paper, how many gentlemen
there were there? A. He says there were
three gentlemen.
Q. Ask him whether this little man who
examined him last night was one? A. Yes,
he says, he was one of them.
Q. Ask him if this gentleman sitting over
here was another, Mr. Grisley, the Times
reporter? A. Yes.
Q. Ask him who the third was, if he
knows. Was the notary public, the man
who swore him, ask him whether he was
the notary public, the man who took the
affidavit? A. He says he cannot see him.
Q. Ask him if it was the main that swore
him to the paper, the other man? A. Yes,
sir, it was.
Q. Ask him if he ever saw this man who
questioned him here yesterday until that
evening A. No, he says he never saw him
before.
Q. Ask him if he ever saw any one con-
nected with the defense in this case before
he saw the little main on that night? A.
He said he hadn’t seen any.
Q. Those were the only persons that ever
spoke to him on the part of this defense?
A. He says there were two men one even-
ing in Deember, around him; he says he
thinks thy were detectives, or something.
Q. Now ask him if all the talk that this
man had with him, the one who questioned
him yesterday, if all the talk he had with
him was in the presence of the officer who
took the affidavit, and particularly in the
presence of this gentleman here?
The Court–Ask him if these men were
all togther.
Mr. Erwin–Ask him when he talked if
these three men were all together? A.



222
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Yes, he said they were sitting in the front
room, all three of them.
Mr. Erwin–Ask him whether a subpoena.
was served on him that night, issued to
him, which subpoenaed him and his wife
and Miss Larson to come to the court? A.
Yes, sir, he had to be in court as a witness
about this matter, when the court time
comes, him and that lady.
Q. Ask him if the talk was about the pay
for coming up here to be a witness, or the
talk was for pay for him telling what he
did? A. He said he should get pay for his
trouble, either for witness or what he
was saying. He says he expected to be
paid a little more than for witness.
Q. How much did he expect to get? A.
He don’t know that.
Q. Was there any talk about that, that
he was to get more than the law allows a
witness? A. He says there was no talk
about that.
Q. Ask him whether any one of these
three men promised him any money other
than what he would be paid for his trouble
and for his witness fee, being kept up at
night, for his trouble and his witness fee?
A. No, he says there was not any of them
promised him any more.
Mr. Erwin–He spoke yesterday of de-
tectives coming to him. He swears today
that in December two other men came to
him. Now, does he mean that the two men
who came to him today were detectives
that he talked about yesterday? A. Yes,
sir; he says they are the two men; the 8th
or December.
Q. He don’t see any of those men around
the court house, those detectives. A. No,
he says he don’t see any of them around
there now.
Q. What did they want of him?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Perhaps I can prove that this
idea of pay came through them.
The Court—I ruled that out yesterday.
You asked yesterday what these detectives
said to him, and I ruled it out.
Mr. Erwin–I ask it for this additional
reason—I submit to the ruling of your hon-
or—but it seems to me an additional reason
has occurred in this—that this man has de-
veloped that by reason of any conversation
had with him by the theree men who vis-
ited him or the two together, he has no
promise of pay, but still has in his mind
an idea of pay.
The Court—I don’t understand it Objec-
tion sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Q. Did he tell these men,
these detectives the same as you have told
on the witness stand here?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained.
Q. Did those men go and knock at the
door and do as you say, knock at the door
and go in the other rooms and listen?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained.
Mr. Nye. Was the talk with these three
men all in English? A. His wife was talk-
ing with the men most.
º, was their talk in English? A: The
whole conversation was in English, he
says.
Jennie Thorson
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q: What is your name? A. Jennie Thor-
sch, the wife of the witness who was on
the stand just now, yes, sir.
º Is there a number on your house? A.
Q. Now describe to the jury the number
of rooms which there are in your house. A.
Three, just three common small rooms, I
guess 12 feet square.
Q. Three common sized rooms, about 12
feet square? A. Yes, I think so; I cannot
say for sure.
Q. Now please state to the jury in your
own way what you were doing the night
of Dec. 3. A. I was sitting and taking
care of my baby that night, 6 months old.
Q. Where were you sitting? A. Right
in the front room, the room next to the
street.
Q. How many rooms are there from that
back to the kitchen through to the door
down stairs? A. Two.
Q. What time did you retire that night?
A. I guess half past 8 or 9; I cannot say
just exactly.
Q. What time did Miss Larson go to bed?
A. She used to go to bed the same time I
went to bed, about.
Q: What time did your husband retire
that night? A. He did not go to bed until
after we went to bed. It was not so very
long afterwards.
Q. Did you have any lights burning in
the house at the time you were sitting up
in the evening? A. Yes, sir, we had one
in the front room and had one in the bed
room; always turn the lamp when we get
in and we get the children to sleep.
Q. After you retired did you have any
lamps burning? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What kind of a curtain have you on
that bedroom window? A. I have a green
curtain and a lace curtain outside.
Q. When the curtain is down, can you
see the cracks of fire on the edge of the
curtain? A. Yes, we can see it very plain
from the outside.
Q. Even when the curtain was not down?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you sleep hard or are you easily.
wakened? A. No, sir, I do not sleep very
hard. I wake very quick.
Q. That night before you went to bed
did anyone call there upon you? A. No.
sir, not in my hearing.
Q. You saw Mr. Blixt, did you, on the
witness stand? Did you see him since you
have been in court? A. I saw him last
Wednesday afternoon, I guess it was.
Q. Did he call there? A. I would not
say for sure, but I thought it was the same
Inaº.
Q. The same man called when? A: The
5th of December.
Q. Did he call there on the night of the
3d: A. Not that I saw. He did not knock
on the door.
Q. If he called and knocked on the door.
he did not knock on the door so you heard
it? A. No, sir.
Q. His testimony was that he came and
knocked on that door four or five times,
and that there was no light in the house.
and that no one answered the call. Now I
will ask you whether if he had knocked
upon that door four or five times, or once,
whether you would have heard the knock?
A.. I think I would hear it, because I can
hear everybody else. I think if he knocked
hard that time I would have to hear it. -
Q. You say you saw him on the 5th of





OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL.
December? A. Yes, between 5 and 6; I
guess it was close to 6, so I know it was
about supper time.
Q. Where did you see him?
in the kitchen.
Q: What did he say to you? A. He come
to the door, and rapped on the door, and
Mary Larson went out and opened the
door. He asked for Mr. Blum, and she
told him he was moved, and so he wanted
to know his address and she could not give
him that, and so I went out and told him
where he lived. So he turned around, and
afterwards said, “Were you at home last
Monday night?” Then I said, “We were
all home;” and he says, “I went to the
door and rapped on the door several times
hard and could not get in.” In answer
I says, “I did not hear you.” He said, “I
have been here and rapped on the door.”
I said, “I did not hear you,” and so he
said the third time, he says, “I came to
the door all right, and I rapped on the door
several times pretty hard.” “Well, I cant
help it, I did not hear you, if I hear you
I would have went to the door.” That is
the same way that I said it to him. Mary
Larson was sitting there and said, “Oh,
let him go now,” and I slammed the door.
And that was all the conversation I had
with him.
Q. Is that what fixes it upon your mind,
the date as being the 3d, and upon the 5th
he telling you that he was there on Mon-
day, is that what fixes it in your mind?
A. Yes, sir, because he came there and
wanted to make me believe he was there
and that he had been there, and talked
about that. I know what I done Monday
and I have been at home; I know very well
I was at home and I did not hear anybody.
He wanted to make me believe he was
there. Of course he could be there for all
I know, but not so we could hear.
Q. He could not have rapped there with-
º you heard him? A. Not very hard, no,
sir.
Q. Did the detectives come there during
A. Right
December after he was there?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained.
A. Yes, sir, they have been there, about
eight.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Your baby was about six months old?
A. Yes.
Q. She was sick in December? A. No,
sir, she was not sick, but she was pretty
cross and troublesome.
yº. You had the care of her all day? A.
es.
Q. And naturally were pretty tired? A.
Yes, sir, some nights. I have to be up a
good many times.
Q. You don't know whether you fell
asleep immediately or not? A. No, sir, I
cannot say for sure, because sometimes
I cannot get to sleep, and I wake up SOme-
times; and sometimes I have to stay a
long time before I can get to sleep.
Mary Larson
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q: Are you the lady that was just talked
about by Mrs. Thorson as living with her?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, do you remember the night of
Dec. 3, Monday? A. Yes sir.
Q. Where were you that night? A. I
was home, in the front room.
Q Did you go out any that evening? A.
No, sir.
Q: What lights were burning while you
were sitting up in that house? A. O
lamps. One in the front room and one in
the bed room.
Q. What time did you go to bed? A.
About 8:30 or 9 o'clock; I could not say for
Surºe.
Q. How long before you fell asleep, if
you remember? If you do not, probably
how long? A. I don't know just exactly
what time I went to sleep, but I don’t think
I went to sleep until after 9.
Q. Did any one come to the house there
that evening? A. No, sir.
Q. Did any one rap at he door that even-
ing? A. Not that we heard.
Q. Did you hear anybody come up the
stairs that night? A. No, sir.
Was there any light burning after you
went to bedº A. Yes, in the bedroom.
Q. Now, when the light is burning in the
bedroom, can you see it from the outside?
A. Yes.
Q. When the curtain is down, can you see
it? A. Yes, I can see it very plain.
Q. Now, were you in the house when Mr.
Blixt called two days afterwards—in the
afternoon, or late in the afternoon? A.
Yes, sir. It was between 5 and 6, closer to
6 than 5.
Q. Did he rap? A. Yes.
Q. You went to the door? A. Yes, sir.
He asked for Mr Blum, and I did not know
anything about where he lived, so I called
Mrs. Thorson. She told him where he
lived.
Q. What did he say about being there
any time before? A. He said he was there
Monday night, and knocked several times
very hard, and could not get any answer.
She said it was funny, because we were all
at home.
And he said again that he was there, and
he rapped very hard, he says; and she says
she could not help it, and he could not get
it in his head, and she got kind of mad,
she said, and shut the door.
Q. Now, Blixt testified that he came
there that night and rapped several times,
four or five times, hard on that door, and
that nobody answered, and that there was
no light in the house when he come there.
A. Yes, sir; the light was burning.
Q. There was a light there all night? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. One that could be seen from the out-
side? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it possible for him to rap there
four or five times without your hearing? A.
I don’t think so. I can always hear any-
body that comes to the door. I would not
say that he was not there. I would not
swear to that.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. How near is there any other house to
that house on the side where this lamp was
burning? A. The houses are very close to-
gether there, I can’t tell how much.
Q. Is it between your house and that
house that the walk is back to the stair-
way? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether there was any
light in that other house opposite? A. I.
did not look down there, so I can't tell;
but I think they had a light burning there.






OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. That curtain is what we call a shade?
A. Yes, sir. Dark colored window shades.
Lace curtain on the outside of that.
Q. The lamp in the front room you blow
out when you go to bedº A. Yes.
Q. Was this lamp in the bedroom turned
down partially? A. Yes, it was always
turned down a little.
Q. Turned down pretty low? A. No, sir,
we don't turn it very low. We can see real
good in there when it is turned down.
Q. That is, you can see objects in the
room all right? A. Yes, sir.
The Court. How is the top stairs, is there
a platform from where you go into the
kitchen? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is it covered or open? A. It is open.
G. F. Hitchcock
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. You are a stenographer, and as such
can take down the conversation of men in
short hand? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present in the capacity of
stenographer at the time Mr. Blixt made
his first and second statements, as they are
called? A. I was.
Q. You have with you your notes and al-
so an extended copy of the statement, have
you not? A. I think I left the copy at my
office this morning; I have a copy.
Q. 1-ſease turn to his second statement.
A. (Witness refers to his short hand notes
and in response to the question as to what
they contained about a certain portion of
the testimony, read as follows:) “Then he
cut across that vacant lot, there is a va-
cant lot there, and he whistled at me, and
I followed the sidewalk down, and then he
cut across there, and there is another
street comes in there, then he run across
and she came, I don’t know where she
came from, but he whistled at her and
stopped her, and she drove to one side of
the street, on the left hand side of the
street, close to the Lowry block in there.”
(Witness was next asked about what
Blixt's second statement contained in re-
gard to the tin box and roll of money.)
The Court—Well, it is all admitted ex-
cepting what he has denied here as to the
watch, that his wife knew anything about
it.
Mr. Erwin–Then I understand that the
jury is to understand that this man stated .
in the second statement—
The Court—That it was correct as writ-
ten down.
Mr. Erwin–Then, that is the admission.
The Court—Well, as I understand this
testimony, it was only received for in-
peaching purposes, and whatever he did not
recollect you can not impeach him, if he
said he did not remember. But whenever
he has flatly contradicted anything, then
it is proper to introduct impeaching testi-
mony, and this goes to the extent of the
contradiction, and no further.
Mr. Nye–I presume the reporter will
have to read quite a little there to make
the meaning clear. I don't know as I have
any objection to it.
The Court–Only we want to get along as
fast as we can. You can read if they want
you to.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Hitchcock, if he
stated in substance as I have read 2 A.
Well, I think substantially so, but there
are some things—
Q. Well, there are some things, I don’t
care anything about that; what I want is
in relation to the holding of the box and in
relation to the roll of money? A. Well,
now, I should think I would have to have
that statement read again, or read it, and
call your attention to it as you go along.
Mr. Nye-Well, as far as I am concerned
you can read it. -
Mr. Erwin–This statement, your honor,
contains the recital of a lot of things
which your honor has shut out before the
jury, and if I admit the statement entirely
to be read now to the jury that brings up
all of those interdicted things in the case.
The Court-Well, you can read that por-
tion of the statement which you used in ex-
amining the witness, including the questions
and answers that were given in the second
statement, and also the answers that he
gave to the questions, including questions
and answers of the same subject matter.
Wherever he denied it it will be considered
as impeaching testimony.
Mr. Erwin–T called Mr. Blixt's attention
to the fact that he had testified before this
jury that he was ordered to hide the box,
and that he took it up into the attic and
put it into a paint pail, and when Harry
came down he said to him: “Where did
you hide it?” And he said: “I put it in a
paint pail,” and Harry said, “Oh, it is the
first place they will look for it.” Now, I
introduce this statement to show that was
not the case at all, by his second state-
ment—that Harry took it up at the time
and said that he was goin to hide it in the
woods. That is one point. And I called his
atention for the second point, that he tes-
tified here before this jury that the money
was a lot of one dollar bills.
The Court—Well, I say that the reporter
can read that portion of the second state-
ment in relation to the matter, including
the questions and answers, wherever he
has made a denial of the statement.
Q. Well, then, Mr. Hitchcock, if you will
commence at that point about the hiding;
where he said: “He said I want you to help
me hide it. A. (Read from shorthand re-
port Blixt's statement as heretofore print-
ed.)
Mr.
That answers
honor.
(Mr. Erwin here read from his cross-
examination of Blixt, in which the witness
denied having said in his statement, “I
have done this because I heard that his
own brother was telling the truth, and I
understood then that the program was that
they had made me to hang, and I thought
to myself if they wanted to do that, they
might just as well know the truth.”)
Q. Now, Mr. Hitchcock, I ask you to
turn to the latter portion of the first state-
Erwin (at conclusion of reading)-
the contradiction, your
ment and did Mr. Blixt in answer to the
following question, make the following
answer: “I have done this because I heard
that his brother was telling the truth and
I understand then that the program was
that they had made me to hang and I
|
thought to myself if they wanted to do
that they might just as well know the
truth then, you know.” Did he so state?
A. That is what he stated.
Q. In the second statement on the fourth
page, did he use the following words: “I
never could come to the conclusion how
I did have strength to do it, no; and I
don't remember how long, how much









OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
further I went on; but I went on as I told
you, and then turned the horse and come
back; and I kept the robe up against her,
and I was scared, you know, that she
should come out or something like that,
you know; and then I made the calcula-
tion that I wanted to get rid of her some
way or another, and I moved her feet out
of the box and she slipped out of herself.
That was the end of it; and then I took
the horse along, just the same as I showed
you up there on Lake street, until I got-"
Did he so state?
Mr. Nye-He diº, not deny that.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, he did.
The Court—I think not. I think he stated
it a little different from that. I think he
said he put his hands against her and
shoved her feet out.
Mr. Erwin–That was on the cross-exam-
ination.
The Court. Well, read it, what did he
say—read his answer to that.
Mr. Erwin. I haven’t the number of the
page, your honor.
The Court. Well, it is not proper unless
he did deny it.
Mr. Erwin. Well, I claim he did. But if
it admitted that is as far as I want to go;
if it is contended he denied it, I want to
follow it up.
The Court. As I remember it the only
discrepancy between the statements is that
he put his hands against her and pushed
her out. That is my recollection. Go on,
you can show what his statement was.
Q. Did he so state, Mr. Hitchcock? A.
That is correct, the way you read it.
Did he right after that in answer to
the question, “What time did he come in to
the Ozark, and what did you say?” say “I
went down the elevator,” and upon being
asked ‘what did you do with your revol-
ver,” answer ‘Oh, yes; that has got to be
plain; I took it into his room?" * Did he so
testify 2
Mr. Nye-Well, I think he admitted that.
The Court—Yes, he admitted that.
Q. The testimony now I will read is in
regard to that he was to tell the elevator
boy about the bills. (Mr. Erwin read from
Blixt's cross-examination on that point.)
Mr. Erwin. Now, he distinctly states
here that he remembered it was in his at-
torney's statement, but he did not know
whether it was in the others or not, and I
want to show it was not.
The Court. No, I think, so far as his at-
tention was called to the two statements
made to the mayor, or the police officers,
he stated he did not remember whether
that was in or not, and of course it wouldn't
lay any foundation for impeachment unless
he absolutely denied it.
Mr. Erwin. Well, your honor, we will
take an exception to that ruling.
The Court. You cannot impeach him if
he testifies he does not remember.
Q: Well, I will ask you this as a matter
of fact, Mr. Hitchcock, is there any such
thing in his second statement as the words,
“J. C , what a lot of big bills they
were?” A. My recollection is there was
no such thing there.
Q. Is there any such thing in the first
statement? A. I don't remember of ever
hearing the statement until you referred to
it here.
Q: Did he say anything in his first state-
ment about Harry threatening to kill his
wife?A. I do not think that he did.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o’clock
p. m.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 15.
George F. Hitchcock
resumed.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, Mr.
Blixt has made contradictory statements
which are numbered statements Nos. 1 and
2. Now, in both these statements are re-
citals of matters which the court evidently
would not permit to go before the jury.
I therefore propose that Mr. Hitchcock
furnish the court with a copy, a sworn
copy of the two statements, statement No.
1 and statement No. 2; and that the court
expunge from those statements those mat-
ters which are not at issue in this case,
and then that these statements be taken as
Mr. Hitchcock's testimony as to what Mr.
Blixt did say in regard to matters that are
raised by impeaching questions.
Mr. Nye-If those portions of the two
statements cover all that relates to the
questions about which the witness has
been interrogated, that will be sufficient.
There is one thing we desire to call wit-
ness’ attention to concerning what Blixt.
did say in his first statement as to the
$2,000 instead of $7,000.
The Court—You can mark what you want
to put in in connection with that, and I
will determine it.
Mr. Erwin–It is something like settling
a bill of exceptions. We can appear before
you and have it done some time before the
close of the trial. The agreement ought to
be that the court should simply expunge,
not the recitals, but the other matters not
allowed in issue here, and let all the rest
go in.
M. Hall–No objection to that.
The Court—I can indicate what can be
read. You can indicate what you want to
read.
Mr. Erwin—I want all the statements
read with the exception of those things
that the court would expunge.
Q. Did you make this yourself? A. I
made it up. There are some typographical
errors in it.
Mr. Erwin–I want one copy by myself
to digest and arrange for argument.
The Court—I want to have you digest it
before you hand it to me.
Mr. Erwin–It is hardly digestible from
my standpoint.
The Court—To what extent that you know
it is what you want?
Mr. Erwin–I want it all except those
things that are not permitted to be testi-
fied to here.
Mr. Hall—I am informed by the stenog-
rapher that there is another copy of this
first statement. We also have another
copy. These copies can be corrected, and
thus save the expense of transcribing
again. I will give him these two copies,
and he says he knows where the other is.
Mr. Erwin–When can we get the cor-
rected copy?
The Witness—Tomorrow sometime.
Lizzie Naegel
was sworn and examined by Mr. Sweetzer.
Q. Where do you reside? A. At Thirty-
second street and Excelsior avenue, on the
west side of Lake Calhoun, Minneapolis.





















226
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. You are the sister of William Er-
hart who testified here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember the evening of the
3d of December last? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at home during that even-
ing? A. Yes.
Q: What time did your husband return
from business that evening? A. 7:30 and
then had his supper.
Q. Aftre rising from the table you may
state what you and he did. A. Then we
went into the front room and I was read-
ing, and he was talking with my mother.
Q. You may state the position of that
front room you speak of in the house. A.
It faced almost directly east, and faced
Excelsior avenue; the porch, the two win-
dows of that front rom face Excelsior
avenue, almost directly east, looking to-
wards the lake.
Q. Do you remonber while you were sit-
ting in that room, of hearing any shot
fired? A. Yes, sir. As near as I can say,
it was between 7:50 and 8:10. Ten minutes
of 8 and 10 minutes past 8, as near as I
can judge.
Q. How do you fix the time? A. As I
say, my husband got home and had eaten
his supper. I judge that took about 20
minutes, and the reason I know it was
before 10 minutes past 8, is that the St.
Louis car passed that bridge going to-
wards Twenty-ninth street about 10 min-
utes before 8, and the car had just gone
over. I noticed that shot and it was a
very short while after that that the car
went over the bridge. We can hear very
plainly at our house when it crosses the
bridge over the railroad tracks.
Q. You say that the shot was fired just
before the car passed there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, please, describe the sound that
you heard. A. As near as I can remember
it sounded—it was not clear—it was muf-
fled; it sounded dull. -
Q. How many shots did you hear? A.
I cannot state positively about hat. I
think, though, there were two; the first one
was louder than the second. The second
report, if there was one, as near as I can
remember, was very dull, and they fol-
lowed in close succession.
Q. How long a space of time would you
judge there was between them? A. I can-
not tell that, they were so close after one
another; they were very close.
Q. More or less than five seconds, would
you say? A. About hat, I should judge–
not any more.
Q. From your position in the room could
you judge anything in regard to the direc-
tion in which those shots were fired 2 A.
Yes. At the time I heard them, I thought
they were east, down east, towards the
lake; east of where I was sitting.
Q. Was there any other sound that you
heard in connection with these shots? A.
Well, I cannot state positively about that.
My impression is that it was the boys down
on the ice, and that they were hollering.
We can hear them very plainly at our
house when they halloa.
Q. As to this sound, what is your im-
pression as to there being any other sound?
A. I don’t know, but I did hear a screech
or scream—I don’t know what I would call
it exactly—but it was closely after the shot
was fired. I don’t remember much about
that; I did not pay any particular atten-
tion to it at the time.
Q. This sound that you heard in connec-
tion with these shots, when was it, be-
tween the two shots or before or after
them 2 A. I think it was between.
Q. How long were these shots that you
heard before the time that your brother
William Erhart returned to the house? A.
About a half hour, or a little more; I think
it is half an hour, something about half an
hour.
Q. Your brother, William Erhart, is the
one that found the body of Miss Ging? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at the house on his first re-
turn, when he first came and told you? A.
Yes; he said there was some kind of an ac-
cident.
Q. When your brother reported to you
the fact of the finding of this body, did that
have any effect in fixing your mind as to
the hearing of these shots? A. No, sir. I
did not think anything about it.
Q. You remembered these facts clearly
that you have testified to as to the shots?
A. Yes.
Q. You are positive this was the 3d of
December, the day of the murder? A. Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You think that was a half hour before
your brother returned? A. Yes.
Q. Was there a good deal about the lake
there that you hear occasionally? A. Well,
I cannot say that there is a great deal at
night. There is some.
. The first thought was
down on the lake? A. Yes.
Q. Wasn't it noticeable to you, was it
not about that time that the ice formed in
the lake was continually cracking and ex-
ploding, making a noise a good deal like a
cannonade? A. Yes, sir, but I can tell the
difference in the sound. I have lived there
lcing enough, and I know the difference in
the sound of ice cracking.
Q. Are you quite sure you could tell that
difference inside of the house with closed
windows and doors? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you look out to see if there was
anyone on the lake or on the road? A. No,
sir.
Q. Night dark out? A. Well, no, sir;
there was a moon; it was not very large.
It was just setting about the hills about
that time, I should judge. I know it was
not dark that night.
Q. You would not be able positively to
testify as to the direction anyway, would
you—only the impression that you receiv-
ed as to the direction? A. No, sir; I don't
think I could positively say, and still it
was in that direction. It was not south I
don’t think at all; it did not sound that
way, but I was inside and the doors and
windows were closed. -
Q. It did not recur to yeur mind at all
when your brother returned and told you
of the accident? A. No, sir, because he
said it was a runaway accident.
Q. was there any dispute or misunder-
standing as to whether there was one shot
or two? A. Well, I did not mention it to
anybody at the time, I am not positive
about the second shot, but I am perfectly
positive about one. The second one was
very faint.
Q: Did it seem like a rifle? well, I
am sure I don't know enough about a rifle
or revolver to ten the difference in the
sound. Sounded dull.
the skaters
























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
227
Q. You have heard both about the lakes,
haven’t you, over there occasionally 2 A.
Yes, sir, I think I have. I can generally
tell the difference, but I cannot about this,
I am sure.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, Mr.
Bartleson, the lawyer, desires to leave the
city, and with your permission we will in-
troduce him out of regular order. It is
on the alibi question, and not in order now,
but we will ask the jury to remember his
testimony when we take up the question.
Charles J. Bartleson
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. You reside with your family in the
city, and your family is composed of wife
and daughter? A. I have three daughters
and a son.
Q. And you live where? A. On the north-
west corner of Twelfth and Chestnut
avenue.
Q. Are you acquainted with Harry Hay-
ward? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you known him? A.
Well, certainly five or six years; may be
12 or 15; if I knew him before five or six
years ago it was as a boy probably, that
I did not particularly attend to. We have
lived in the same part of the city for cer-
tainly 12 years.
Q. On the night of the 3d of December,
where were you, Mr. Bartleson, in the
early part of the evening after supper?
A. I was at home all the evening after
6 o'clock. -
Q. What persons were in the house with
you before 7 o'clock or before 8 o’clock?
A. My wife and my eldest daughter, Mabel,
and our boy.
Q. Let me ask you if Miss Mabel is in
the city now? A. No, sir. She is visiting,
Detroit, Mich.
Q. On that night, did you see the defend-
ant, Harry Hayward? A. I did.
Q. Will you please relate the circum-
stances of your seeing him as far as it is
pertinent to show his position, that is,
where he was at that time; nothing fur-
ther than to show where he was. A. When
he came to the door my daughter Mabel
answered the bell.
Q. Which door did he come to? A. The
front door on Chestnut avenue. They had
Some conversation at the outer door that
I did not hear, and then they stepped into
the hall, and Mabel speaking to me and
her mother, said, “Harry wants me to go
to the theater, isn’t it too late?” Her
mother looked at the clock and I took out
my watch, and then mother answered, “No,
it is time enough if you want to go; it is
not 8 o’clock yet, and the performance does
not commence until a quarter past or later,
and so she turned to Harry and said, very
well, she would go. She went up—
Q. When you looked at the clock, what
time was it, looked at your watch? A. It
Was some place from 3 to 5 minutes before
8 o'clock. I should say 4 minutes would be
very close to it; possibly 5.
Q. How long had he been in the house
when you looked? A. Not any minutes,
seconds only.
Q: Did you look also at the clock? A.
The clock and my watch are precisely the
same, was regulating it by my watch.
º Was your watch regulation time? A.
es
Q: What did Hayward do while your
Harry spending that evening at your house
spent the evening there until in the neigh-
daughter was getting ready? A. He sat
down and conversed with me and probably
with Mrs. Bartleson some.
Q. How was he dressed, his outer dress?
A. I don't know; Harry was always dressed
gentlemanly and well, but aside from that
I did not notice. I should have noticed if
he had not been well dressed.
Q. Did he have on that night the neat
and tidy appearance which he generally has
when he goes out with a lady to the opera.
or anything of that kind? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are familiar with his looks and
habits in that regard? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the condition of his hair,
in regard to its being dressed, or in a neat
and tidy shape?
Objected to as immaterial. -
Mr. Erwin–It is quite material if he was
down at this boulevard and his hat was
knocked off, and he made a run to get up
there.
Mr. Nye-There is no evidence that his hat
was knocked off. Blixt's hat was knocked
off.
The Witness—I could not add anything
to what I have said, that his general ap-
pearance was well dressed and genteel.
Q. Do you remember whether he was
gloved or not? A. Yes, he wore a pair of
bear skin gloves, I am very sure.
Q. Was he easy; was he natural 2 A. He
was pleasant and good natured, and we -
had a pleasant conversation; I remember
it was about old friends of ours, to some
extent.
Q. How long did the conversation last;
how long before your daughter was ready
to go? A. Probably not more than three
of four minutes. Then my daughter came
down with her wraps on and they went
out together, saying they were going to the
theater, to the Grand. It was in the vicin-
ity of a quarter before eleven when they
returned. I heard them say good night
at the door. I am very sure that she said
“Good night, Harry,” and he said “Good
night;" and she came in and I was up in
my room just at the head of the stairs
and the door open. -
Q. Now, in reference to a former visit
at your house on Wednesday, do you rec-
ollect—I wil ask you whether you recollect
on the Wednesday before or on the Wed-
nesday the week before, the second Wed-
nesday before, and if so, under what cir-
cumstances, that is, in relation to what
social or other matters, which if you do not
remember I cannot fix the time before the
jury? A. He was at a social at the Church
of the Redeemer which he attended on
either the Wednesday evening preceding
the 3d of December, or the second Wed-
nesday prior to that. I went there, met
my family there and took supper. Harry,
I think—at least I first saw him there just
after supper previous to 7 o'clock. We
borhood of 9 o'clock perhaps. We all
walked home together, and he went into
the house and visited with us for some
little time. We left the church, perhaps
about nine; he arrived at he house proba-
bly a quarter past nine. -
Q. He was at the house until about 10
o'clock then? A: Well, it may have been
a litle before 10 or after 10. He remained
until somewhere in that vicinity.





228
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
Q. Let me ask you if he was continually
at he social from the time you saw him
until you went home? A. Yes, he was a
member of the spelling class we have there,
and got spelled down easily.
Q. Do you recollect that when you left
the church you left with Mr. and Mrs.
Hawkins? A. My impresion was that we
walked together to Hennepin. I am not
clear about that. It may have been Nicol-
let. They left us at some point on the
route. It may have been Nicollet, and may
have been Hennepin, and they arrived at
the house about the time that we did by a
different route very soon after.
Q. Let me ask you on another topic; I
will ask you whether at any time you in-
troduced the subject, whether at any time
Harry consulted you in relation to any as-
signment of the insurance? A. Well, you
are his attorney, and I assume to say that
with his consent he consulted me profes-
sionally in that way. It was last fall some
time; that is as near as I can state.
Q. What was the nature of the consul-
tation—you have his consent to testify in
relation to it? A. He had a printed blank
for an assignment of life insurance in the
New York Life Insurance Company. I
think he had two of them, and he came to
me and asked me if there was any pe—
culiarities or special formulas necessary in
making out an assignment of life insur-
ance; and I looked his blank over and told
him to follow that blank; it was one pre-
pared by the company, and it would un-
doubtedly be satisfactory to them. Its for-
mula was followed out. He did not need
my assistance to do it. He could do it
himself. Then he spoke of there being in
- some other company, which he probably
named, but I don’t remember, for which he
had no blank; I told him to have a type-
writer copy this blank, covering the name
of the other company instead of the New
York Life, and it would be all right. He
also told me that the policy was on the life
of a woman and that he was furnishing
her money for business purposes, and
taking that as security in case of her
death; that she was a good business
woman, and that it was all right if she
lived, but she might die. I should say it
was early in November or late in October;
I could not fix it nearer than that. -
Q. He brought these two blanks with him
—you think he had one blank and two as-
signments? A. I think he had two, both
in the New York Life.
Q. Didn't he have two policies with him?
A. I think probably, yes, I think he had
one or two policies in his hand.
CEROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Did you understand that Mr. Hay-
ward was looked for at your house that
evening? Was he expected at your house
by your daughter? A. I have no under-
standing on that subject. I am quite well
satisfied from the general conversation that
she had no invitation prior to that time
to go to the theater with him that night.
Q. Do you know whether there had been
any talk of his calling? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you recall whither Mr. Hayward
laid off his overcoat while he was there?
A. My impression is that he did; yes, I
remember him doing so.
Q. Isn't your impression that he appear-
er rather warm, as if he had exercised con-
siderably? A. Well, I had no reason to
doubt that he had walked over, and I
saw no indication of any exercise beyond
that. The evening was not cold, and the
house was warm.
Q. Do you recall whether he was appar-
ently sweating, perspiring? A. No indica-
tions of it that I noticed.
Q. You don’t remember? A. No, sir. He
took off his overcoat without removing his
gloves, I remember that, and threw it on
the settee and sat down and went to talk-
ing. I didn't see him until he stepped into
the house.
Q. How long did your daughter converse
with him on the front there, just a mo-
ment? A. Oh, yes, just five or ten seconds
possibly.
Q. Would it be a direct route from Ken-
wood boulevard, in the vicinity of Lyndale
avenue, to your house by the way of the
Ozark flats?
Objected to as immaterial, not cross-ex-
annination.
Objection sustained, as not cross-examin-
ation.
Mr. Erwin–This witness has to go away.
The Court—You can make him your own
witness, or prove it by anybody else.
Q. Do you recollect whether he showed
you the policies or not at the time that you
examined the blank assignments? A. I am
quite sure that he had the policy in his -
hand. I did not know who was the in-
sured. I did not inquire, except that he
said it was a woman. I remember that.
Edward Angell
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your profession? A: I am a
lawyer.
Q. Do you know Harry Hayward? A. I.
do
Q. Has he consulted you professionally
as a lawyer? A. Yes.
Q. Did he ever consult you in relation to
life insurance, the legal aspects of life in-
surance? A. Yes. It was in about the
middle of September, the 13th day, as I
recall it. It was a professional consulta-
tion. He paid for it. Harry came to my
office that morning. I might say that I fix
the date by an entry that I made in my
books at that time. It was the 13th of Sep-
tember; he came to my office and said that
he was going to loan some money, and was
going to take a life insurance policy as se-
curity for that loan, and he told me that
he wanted to talk with me about it so as
to be sure that the steps which he was
taking in having the policies made out and
getting all the papers fixed up, were all
right.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent.
Mr. Erwin–The declarations of the de-
fendant have been placed in evidence in an
incriminating way, and I put in declara-
tions that show that they were regular.
Mr. Nye I do not see the competency of
these declarations.
Mr. Erwin–They are not declarations, ex-
cept to rebut declarations which you put
in, the inquiry about insurance the state
put in as a matter of innuendo.
The Court—I don’t think it is necessary
to go on and state all that took place bº
tween the parties, and what advice he gave
him particularly.
Mr. Erwin. I want to show that in the

































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
229
regular course of business and in the reg-
ular way the defendant went and consulted
his attorney openly.
The Court—Is it necessary for the attor-
ney to state just what questions Mr. Hay-
ward asked and just what advice he gave.
Mr. Erwin–Yes; I will tell you. The state
has already put in a large amount of tes-
timony to show that Hayward was anxious
to find out what an insurable interest was;
how it should be taken care of, for the
purpose of heaping upon him, the idea, the
innuendo, that he was doing this as a plot
to make money. Now, I want to show that
he, in a business way, consulted an attor-
ney upon a business proposition.
The Court—It was on the 13th of Septem-
ber?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, it has already been
proven that Miss Ging was talking about
insurance at that time herself, and Harry
was talking about insurance at that time.
The Court—I did not know there was
any testimony in the case that Miss Ging
had talked anything about insurance until
a much later period.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, there was.
The Court—I will overrule the objection.
The Witness—I don’t suppose that I can
give the conversation, the questions he
asked me exactly, but in a general way
what the matter was. I remember that We
discussed particularly the two methods of
having a policy made out—that is, whether
he could have himself named as beneficiary
in a policy directly, or whether he should
have his estate or heirs or administrators
named as the beneficiary and then take an
assignment of the policy and so secure him-
self that way. And, after thinking the mat-
ter over some I was very much in favor,
much more in favor of the plan of naming
himself directly as a beneficiary in the
policy, and told him so, and thought that
was a simpler method, and perhaps would
cause less trouble; and in connection with
that he told me he was going to loan this
money—did not state what the amount was
—he said it was a large sum of money,
several thousand dollars, and told me he
was going to give a note; and in connec-
tion with that we were discussing the way
of making out that note and the advisa-
bility of having witnesses, and so on, to
the note, and I told him as long as it was
an important transaction, if he was going
to have himself named as beneficiary in the
policy, I thought it would be a good idea,
something in addition to that, some collat-
eral agreement to show just what the
transactions between the parties were in
case he had to prove up a loss; and I
could do it for him, could draw up a
blank agreeman, a collateral to be exe-
cuted simultaneously with the notes and
with the insurance policies, and which he
could fill out, showing merely stating what
the circumsances of the transaction were,
that he had loaned the money and had
taken the policies, and stated what his in-
surable interest in the life of the insured
was.
Q. I hand the witness exhibit W-7 ? A.
This is the agreement in duplcate, the
collateral agreement that I made up at
Mr. Hayward's request, to go ºlong to be
executed simultaneously with the note,
and with the insurance policies, for the
purpose of showing what the whole trans-
action, what his insurable interest, and so
on, in the life insured was; to show in con-
nection with the note the amount of mon-
ey loaned, and the agreement between the
different parties. There have been some
interlineations in that since it was made
out.
Q. Was there any discussion at that time
or any advice in relation to any assignment
with a consideration? A. Well, Mr. Hay-
ward brought in, I think, the next—wheth-
he had it with him that day, or whether
he brought it with him next day I am
not sure—he brought in one of those blank
assignments of the New York Life Com-
pany, and asked me if that constituted a
good assignment.
Q. Let me show you now a blank as-
signment. I show the witness exhibit W-6?
A. Yes, sir, it is as I remember an as
signment similar to that. I told him as
far as I could see it was all right. If I
remember ightly I suggested it might be
a good idea to have the consideration
named in the assignment, instead of hav-
ing just the words “for value received;”
I am not positive about that, but that is
my impression. I know I told him that
would be all right. I think if I suggested
anything in regard to it he should state
what the consideratio nwas; naming the
same annount there that was named in the
note.
Mr. Erwin—I will call the attention of the
court in connection with this testimony
to exhibit W-2. I will call your honor's
attention to this, that the receipt is, re-
ceived by Harry T. Hayward, one dollar,
as part of the value received. It is in con-
nection with this testimony that I want to
call the jury's attention to that.
Mr. Nye-No objection.
The Witness—There was another thing in
regard to that agreement there, that I
might say, and that is that that was drawn
up after Harry was in the first time, when
I told him that I would have him named as
beneficiary directly in the policy. A day or
two after, perhaps it may have been sev-
eral days after it came in, he said that
he had been talking with the New York
Life people in regard to the matter, and
they preferred to have the policies made
out the other way, that is, have them
made payable to the estate of the insured,
rather than to the beneficiary, and then
have an assignment made out. I told him
if that was the case, I told him it didn’t
make any particular difference as I could
see, only the other method seemed to me
a little simpler. I told him. I did not see
any use for that agreement I had drawn
up. In that case he would have the note
and assignment which was executed, and
I thought that would be sufficient to show
what his insurance interest was without
executing the collateral agreement.
Q. Is there anything else in connection
with these consultations which you have
onnitted to state? A. There was something
I think, in regard to the manner of paying
the premiums; the manner in which the
premiums should be paid, and whether that
would be important or not. I remember
teling him that if he took these policies in
this way, that it was very important that
he should keep his eye on the premiums
and see that they were constantly paid up,
and have the policies in such shape, either
he would have them in his own possesion




OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
or else would be informed by the company
when the premiums were due, and of course
the policies could not lapse and he lose his
security for the money.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. When you speak of this as an agree-
ment, you mean a blank form of agree-
ment? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was never executed? A. No, sir;
I merely drew it up with a blank as they
are there, and either handed it to him or
sent it to him through the mail.
Q. Did you advise him that the witness-
ing of the notes was essential to the val-
idity? A. No, sir. I told him although it
was not usual, it was very often done.
Q. What was the purpose of it? A. I
told him there was no particular advan-
tage of it, no advantage whatever, ex-
cept particularly showing what the trans-
action was in case it ever became neces-
Sary.
Q. Had he suggested anything of that
kind before you—did he ask you whether
it would be better to have the note wit-
nessed ? A. I don’t remember, how the
mater first came up, whether it was at his
suggestion or whether mine. I remember
that we did talk the matter over.
Q. Does this relate to any loan made
at hat time, or to be made? A. As I
understod it, the loan was to be made.
Mr. Erwin–Now, that the jury may un-
derstand, let me see if I understand you
too. In case the policy was made out to
John Doe, the person becoming insured, or
to Catherine Ging, we will use her directly
—suppose the policy was to be made to
Catherine Ging, payable to the estate of
Catherine Ging, and not payable to Harry
Hayward as the beneficiary of that policy;
if it was made out to Catherine Ging,
and a note was taken as the basis of the
insurable interest, then if you ever dis-
puted the signature of Catherine Ging to
that note, it would stand on that, wouldn’t
it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that what you explained to him?
A. Yes, that is what I explained in sub-
stance.
Mr. Nye-That would be true in the case
of any note where the signature was dis-
puted? A. Yes.
Mr. Erwin–Wasn’t the reason of your
advice because the insurance policy being
in that case upon the note upon its execu-
tion, and there was more than the note at
issue—there was the policy? A. Yes, sir,
of course it might have been in a case of
that kind that in case of loss of course the
note would have to be proved and then it
might be more difficult to prove it with the
simple signature.
Harry Adams
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Adams, where do you reside? A.
2410 Third avenue south. -
Q: What is your business? A. Livery
business.
Q. Do you know Mr. Goosman, the livery
stable man, and were you at his stables the
morning after the murder? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in talking with Mr. Goosman
about the buggy, did Mr. Goosman pull the
buggy out so you could see it? A: Yes, sir.
It was somewheres about twenty minutes
to 9, might have been a little later or a lit-
tle earlier.
Q. Well, did you look over the bows of
the buggy, what is called the bows, to hold
up the top? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, will you state what you saw
there? A. Well, I saw what I supposed to
be a hand print on the bow just above
where the strap is buckled on the bow, it
appeared as though a man had gaught hold
of the bow; there is an impress on the bow
made with blood, as though a man had tak-
en hold of it with a bloody hand.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. How long ago were you there exam-
ining the buggy? A. Oh, I could not tell
you. I was there perhaps twenty minutes
talking it over. I saw the buggy but that
once.
Mr. Erwin–Is Mr. M. D. Wilson present.
(Mr. Wilson was here called but there
Was no response.)
Mr. Erwin–If your houor please, one of
my witnesses whom I expected it would
take a few hours to examine has taken
sick and has had the physician examining
him—he will be here tomorrow; and Mr.
Wilson who has been called is not here.
Mr. Hitchcock, by reason of our agreement
in regard to his testimony, has saved us
an hour or so, and if your honor desires to
wait for Mr. Wilson, he is the only witness
we can put on at this time, we will do so.
The Court—Yes, we will wait a few min-
utes for him. You have no other witnesses?
Mr. Erwin–No, your honor. And may it
please your honor the defense has found
it quite difficult to get these witnesses to-
gether since finding out the scope of the
prosecution, and what is necessary to be
called. Now, I can go on tomorrow morn-
ing, but I would like very much if we could
have tomorrow to collate this testimony
and get it in shape and see the witnesses
and get them ready. Now, I submit we
have jurors here who are ill, and if they
could have two days of full rest I think
they could recuperate so as to go through
this trial without any danger of our be-
ing further impeded.
The Court—Well, we shall not hold but
half of tomorrow, anyway.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I was going to say if
we could get rid of that half day tomor-
row.
The Court—Well, I don’t think we can-
we will have to proceed with this trial
and finish it.
M. D. Wilson
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Wilson, where do you reside? A.
1004 Renwood boulevard.
Q. How far is that from Lyndale ave-
nue? A. Well, I should judge, about a
mile and a half.
Q. You deal in horses? A. Yes, sir, I
have for about 30 years.
Q. Are you acquainted with the stable
of Mr. Goosman and know his stock gen-
erally? A. I do, sir. -
Q. Do you know Mr. Sweetser, here? A.
I do not.
Q. Did you ever see him? A: I believe
he was the gentleman at my house a week
ago last Sunday.
Q. He endeavored to find out from you
who you saw and who you recognized on
the night of the homicide? A. He did, but
he did not find out anything.
Q, you refused to tell him? A: I did,
sir. -
Q. Now, on the night of the homicide













OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
231
where were you? A. I left my barn, I
should judge, about 10 minutes after 7.
It was 308 Twelfth street south. I left
with a horse and buggy. I went directly
home. I went down Twelfth street to Hen-
nepin and across Hennepin where the
water tank is there, to the boulevard.
Where the boulevard goes into Lyndale
there is a high fence.
Q. Did you see the Goosman rig that
night? A. I did; right at the corner of
Lyndale at the high fence; they turned in
right against me; their horse came right
onto mine, as I turned on the boulevard
there on the corner. I had turned on the
boulevard and when I got to where Lyn-
dale crosses the boulevard they came right
up facing me.
Q. Where did they come from? A. Up
Lyndale; going east.
The Court–Lyndale
south 2
The Witness—Well, I mean going south.
They turned there to the right on Lyndale;
they came right to the corner and turned
to the right.
Q. The rig, you say, came down Lyn-
dale from the north then? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And just as you turned into the boul-
evard? A. It is only a half block over
to where Lyndale crosses the boulevard
where the high board fence is.
Q. Where were you when you first saw
the rig in reference to the corner? A. I
was right on the boulevard. Just as you
cross Lyndale. I was going west. I was
right in the middle of Kenwood. I was
crossing Lyndale on the boulevard.
Q. And the Ging rig came down from the
north on Lyndale? A. Came right down
that hill, sir, and going the same way I
was, and turned to the right.
Q. Did it turn behind you, or how? A.
They turned to the side of me.
Q. How far did they drive with you? A.
About twe blocks. On the right hand side
of me.
Q: What did the rig do after it followed
you two blocks? A. I could not tell you
sir; I drove on home. I could not tell
whether they turned around or went
straight ahead.
Q. Did you hear any rig following you
behind? A. No, sir; I did not. -
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. When you saw them how many were
in the buggy? -
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as not cross-ex-
amination.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
A. I saw two in the buggy, a lady and a
gentleman. I recognized the lady.
Who was she? A. Miss Ging.
Q. Did you know who the gentleman
was 2
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as not cross-ex-
amination.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Did you know who the gentleman
was 2 A. I did not know at that time. Ie de-
scribed the gentleman that I thought was
in the buggy. I saw him the next day, and
I thought he was the gentleman that was
in the buggy. I picked him out.
Q: Who was that? A. That gentleman
sitting behind Mr. Erwin. (Pointing to
Harry T. Hayward, the defendant.)
runs north and
Q. And it is stil your opinion that that
was the manº
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as not cross-ex-
annination. -
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
A. The same man.
Q. Where didl you pick him out the next
day? A. At the police station, reading a
newspaper.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now you knew the lady to be Miss
Ging? I did. I had done business with
her for three years when I was in the liv-
ery business.
Q. Now, at exactly what time was this?
A. Well, to my best judgment I should
think it was between 7:15 and 7:20, as near
as I could tell. I could not exactly fix the
minute, and would not want to.
Q. Well, you know that it was not later
than 7:20? A. Well, I think it was.
Q. You only saw the man as the buggy
drove along by you—how long did they
drive along by you? A. I saw him plainly
—they came right square facing me, just
as they turned there.
Q. Had you ever seen Harry Hayward
before that time? A. I never did to my
knowledge.
Q. Never had any acquaintance with him?
A.. I never knew there was such a man.
Q. What is the description of the man
that you saw in the buggy? A. Well, this
man that was in the buggy had a light
mustache and he had on a brown stiff hat
and he either had a brown oversoat on or
a black overcoat, and I cannot tell you ex-
actly. -
Q. What other description have you of
him? A. Nothing more than he had a light
mustache, just as I told them the next
morning. I did not tell it to get into court
or anything of the kind, because I did not
want to get here.
Q. This man Hayward would answer to
that description? A, Well, ( to my judgment
he is the main that I saw, and I saw him
about as plain as I see you now, pretty
nearly; the moon was shining right in his
face.
Q. Now,
Kenwood boulevard did you
standing there? A. No, sir. -
Q. Did you pass any man there? A. No,
Sir.
Q. Did you pass Blixt on Hennepin ave-
nue? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there any man on Hennepin ave-
nue? A. Well, I might have passed a
great many. I might not probably have
noticed them.
Q. Did you notice any man on the side-
walk on Lyndale? A. No, sir, I did not.
not as I know of.
Q. Did you notice any man on the boule-
vard after you went down the boulevard
those two blocks? A. Yes, I passed two
buggies going this way after I turned the
corner up next the hill, two carriages com-
ing this way.
Q. Haw far up the boulevard? A. Oh,
probably three-quarters of a mile.
Q. But you saw nobody, passed nobody
or met nobody until you saw these car-
riages? A: Why, I saw people on the
street as we all do in going along. It was
just exactly 10 minutes after 7 when I left
the barn to go home. -
when you went down across
see Blixt.



232
OFFICIAL stENog RAPHIC REPORT
Q. And what time did you get home?
A. When I got home and unhitched my
horse and got into the house it was just 25
minutes after 7.
Q. Now, why would you not tell the at-
torney here what your testimony would be?
A. Because I would not tell Mr. Nye. I
told him when they got me on the witness
stand I would tell just what I see and what
I know. I told your attorney so, and I
guess he will say so. -
Q. You would not tell Mr. Nye? A. No,
sir; Mr. Nye tried to ask me, but I told him
I would not tell. And I told your man
the same thing sitting in my house a week
ago last Sunday. -
Q. Now, you had never seen Hayward
until that time? A. No, sir, not to my
knowledge.
Q. If it was Hayward? A. No, sir.
Q. And that is all the description you can
give of him? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Light mustache, brown hat, and you
don’t know whether it was a black or
brown overcoat he had on? A. No, sir, I
could not tell. I know he had on a brown
hat—he had the hat on the next day in
the police station.
Q. He had the same kind of a hat on 2 A.
He did.
Q. Well, then you recognized the hat, but
not the man? A. No, sir, when I first saw
Mr. Hayward he didn’t have the hat on;
he was sitting in the office reading the
newspaper, with his hat off.
Q. I mean in the buggy; you recognized
the hat in the buggy? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you recognized the man by his
hat? A. No, sir, I recognized him by his
looks.
Q. Have you any other way to recognize
him than you have described? A. Not a
bit; no, sir.
Q. Just a matter of impression? A. Well,
impression—when a man sees any one he
pretty nearly knows it.
Q. Well, you did not tell anybody you
recognized him? A. I did not; no, sir.
never told anybody until the next day; I
told a man that I recognized him when I
saw him in there the next day.
Q: Who was that man? A. Detective Han-
kinson.
Q. You didn't tell any of the authorities?
A. No, sir, I went away that night.
Q. Well, you wanted to create a dramatic
surprise? A. No, sir, if I had thought
there would have been anything like this
I would have said nothing.
Q: Why did you want to conceal all in-
formation you had, when you knew they
were doing everything possible to find out
who was with this woman that night, and
all about it? A. Well, they come up to see
me at the barn.
Q. When the attorney wanted to know
about it, why did you keep still about it?
A. The attorney did not see me for three
weeks afterwards.
Q. And you wanted to wait until you
were put on the stand and create an im-
pression, did you not? A. No, I didn't
want to go on the stand at all.
Q: What reason did you have for want-
ing to keep off the stand? A: No reason
only I wanted to do what was right.
Q. You don't know how much further
that rig followed you down the boulevard?
A. No, sir, I could not tell.
Q. You know it followed you two blocks?
A.. I should judge about two blocks.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Were you alone in the buggy 2 A. I.
was, sir.
Q. I guess the jury understands it—when
you speak of the north, that would be in
the direction of the West Hotel? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And the buggy came down Lyndale
from that direction and turned into Ken-
wood? A. Turned to the right.
Q. And went in your direction? A. Yes,
slı”
Mr. Nye–That is all.
Mr. Erwin–Now, your honor, that is the
only witness we have here at this time
that We can call.
The Court—Well, we will take an ad-
journment until 10 o’clock tomorrow morn-
ing.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o’clock
a. m., Feb. 16, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 16.
Maggie Wachtler
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your name? A. My name is
Maggie Wachtler. I am a stenographer.
. By whom have you been employed
for the last year? A. Mr. Odell; then I
work for a great many others. I take in
piece work, do piece work all the time. I
am in his office, or have been until re-
cently. -
Q. Were you called upon about the day
before New Year's or the day before
Christmas to go down and take a statement
of Mr. Blixt? A. Yes, sir; it was either the
day before New Year's or the day before
Christmas. It was before a holiday, I
know. I think it was before Christmas.
Q. Where were you taken 2 A. Taken to
the jail.
Q. Who was present besides yourself and
Mr. Odell at the time that you took the
statement? A. When we first went in I
think there was an attendant with him,
and I think when we went in he went out;
it was then Mr. Blixt, Mr. Odell and I.
Mr. Erwin. Your honor, what course
shall I adopt, ask the impeaching question,
or ask what was said 2.
The Court. Take your own course.
Mr. Nye. I shall insist upon his asking
the impeaching question.
Mr. Erwin. For the purpose of impeach-
ment I want the ruling. I would like the
court to lay down the rule. Courts have
two rules.
The Court. I suppose the proper rule is
to give the language, and ask the question
yes or no as to whether such language was
given, or language substantially like it.
Mr. Erwin. Did you hear Mr. Blixt dur-
ing the time that he gave his statement
say that, “Adry and I put up the job to
kill Miss Ging for her money, and we
agreed if we got caught we would put it
on to Harry, because he was always with
Miss Ging. We had a talk before the mur-
der, and Adry said, ‘Be sure and take the
iron with you and go to the place that We
picked out, and if you have any trouble,
Frank will be there, too.” Adry was with
him when he got in the carriage with Miss
Ging. And then after that in some coº






OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 233
versation he said, ‘Oh, I forgot you told me
to tell the truth.’ ”
Mr. Nye. Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial, and calling for a
confidential communication between an at-
torney and his client.
The Court. You may examine her in re-
gard to that.
Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Whatever communications there were
between Blixt and Mr. Odell in the jail
was made by Blixt to Odell as his attor-
ney? A. I suppose so, yes, sir.
Q. You so understood it? A. Yes.
Q. As a matter of fact, do you know that
Mr. Odell was Mr. Blixt's lawyer? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. His visits there were for the purpose
of communication between attorney and
client? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were his confidential clerk and
stenographer? A. I was his stenographer,
yes, sir.
The Court–Were these communications
made at the request of Mr. Odell? A. Yes,
sir, he told me to take down the statement
of Claus A. Blixt, and he commenced to
ask questions, and when Mr. Blixt said
anything he did not want to have put down
he motioned to me not to put it down un-
til he heard all that he said.
Mr. Nye-He was examining him as his
attorney, was he? A. Yes, sir.
The Court—The only question is what
was the intent of the legislature in making
that statute. The intention was that the
communication between the client and his
attorney should not be disclosed unless he
consented to it. No question about the
intent of the legislature. So far as the
stenographer is concerned connected with
the attorney, she is the agent of the at-
torney, and it is the same as though it
was communicated to the attorney, in my
judgment, and the same rule should apply.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to produce the
authorities.
The Court—If you have any authorities
to change my views I would like to see
them. I think in the absence of any au-
thority I should give that construction,
that is, provided Mr. Blixt objects to the
testimony being given.
Mr. Erwin–We will bring in ample au-
thority Monday morning.
The Court—Very well, you can suspend
this testimony until Monday morning.
Mr. Erwin–We will bring them in on
Monday morning. Miss Wachtler will be
excused now.
Dr. Charles H. Norrid
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q: What is your profession? A. Physi-
cian and surgeon.
Q. Had you any experience in the army?
A. Yes, sir, I was surgeon of a cavalry
regiment during the war.
What official position, if any, have
you held while you have been in this city?
A. I was for some time United States ex-
amining surgeon.
Q: What, if any, official position do you
hold at this time? A. Consulting surgeon
of the Minnesota State Soldiers' Home. I
believe that is all.
Mr. Erwin–I suppose it will be neces-
sary to read to this witness the testimony
of the matter of the fall, and the testimony
as to the fractures generally.
Mr.
Salry.
Mr.
Nye-I don’t see that that is neces-
Erwin–I will state it then, in the
form of a hypothetical question.
Mr. Smith—I will ask you if you have
ever seen or examined the carriage belong-
ing to Mr. Goosman, of the Palace livery
stable, in which it is alleged Miss Ging
was murdered 2 A. I examined the car-
riage that I was informed was the carriage
in the Dime Museum.
ERWIN'S HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION
IN FULL.
Mr. Erwin–It has been testified in this
trial by Claus A. Blixt that on the third
day of December he was in the carriage
which you have seen at the Dime Museum,
sitting upon the right hand of the buggy
seat, and driving. That on the left hand
of the buggy seat sat a woman by the
name of Miss Ging. The physicians have
testified that she was a woman of normal
health, apparently between 25 and 30 years
of age; the testimony is more specific that
she was 29; measured five feet seven inches
in height, and weighed about 150 pounds;
well developed, well nourished, hair black
and lower teeth irregular. That while the
buggy was driving at an ordinary gait
this woman kept looking, and every little
while stuck out her head to the left so that
she could see past the bow of the buggy
top referred to, when it was up; and that
while this woman was in that position
Claus A. Blixt, with a pistol, with a 38 cal-
iber Colt's revolver, loaded with a cartridge
called “extra long,” shot her behind the
right ear in such a manner that the hair
was burned off an inch around the en-
trance to the wound. That this woman
had upon her person a seal skin cloak, but-
toned up, double breasted, coat wrapped
up and enveloped her form below the point
of the hips, which cloak was made of the
thickness of seal skin, and padding and a
lining. She was dressed in a waist and a
skirt, a heavy black skirt, overdress, and
wore a thick suit, a combination suit of
woolen knit work. That this wound en-
tered, penetrated the scalp and the occipi-
tal bone, and passed through the cranial
cavity, lacerating the membranes and
brain upon the right of the medulla, and
passing from the point of entrance directly
through the lower portion of the brain
until it entered at the upper and inner
corner of the optic cornea of the eye;
passed through this funnel shaped bone,
through the nerves of the eye, driving the
eye out, but he ball lodged in the edges of
the lids, so that it was easily cut out after
death. Mr. Blixt then testified that the
effect of the shot, she being in that posi-
tion, and the effect of the action were as
follows: “After I had shot her, she was
looking out like this”—describing the man-
ner in which I have stated in this question;
“and she threw herself back like this, and
sat up (illustrating) and sat right still.”
The ball entered the occipital bone at this
point marked by the physician making the
autopsy; passed in that line as is shown
now, coming out upon the coming in the
cornea in the upper and inner side of this
inner plane of the frontal bone
and pressing the eye out.
The ball lodged here in the lids upon the
upper cornea of the eye, the ball passing
through the cerebellum, I believe it is




234
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
called. I think this was established, the
entrance of the wound, and its course was
established by the testimony of the physi-
cians making the autopsy.
The Court—You are getting too much
confused. Just state the facts as they ap-
pear from the testimony.
Mr. Erwin–The physicians making the
autopsy testified that the track of the ball
from its entrance at the point indicated
on the right hand lower side of the occipi-
tal bone, and in its passage to the upper
and inner cornea of the optic cornea, just
scraped along the upper edge of the
petrous portion of the temporal bone in its
passage. It is in the testimony that at the
autopsy made the next day after this shot,
the nose was found to be bent slightly to
the left, and on examination the nasal
bones were found to be broken to a larger
extent on the right side than on the left.
There was a slight abrasion of the right
side of the tip of thinose. The left eye was
forced from its socket and protruded be-
tween the eyelids, which were lacerated a
quarter of an inch from the inner angle.
Both nostrils contained clotted blood, as
also the left ear, and an inch above the
external angle of the right eye, in a vertical
line a depression on the skin as large as a
small hazel nut is found. There was a lacer-
ated wound extending from the synthesis
of the lip jaw at the mucous membrane
and the integument of the lip down and
outwards to the extent of three-quarters
of an inch. This wound involved the entire
thickness of the lip. The finger nails were
purple. On deflection of the scalp a small
effusion of blood is found between the scalp
and the bone at the point corresponding
to the external depression in the skin above
the right eye mentioned before, the size
of a hazel nut. Beneath this effusion is a
local fracture extending backwards through
the squamous portion of the temporal bone;
no lesions of the dura mater or effusions be-
tween it and the bone are found from the
membrane laterially. There are two lineal
fractures on both sides of the head; the
one on the right side extending from the
frontal bone of the head; a bone corre-
sponding with the skin above the right eye,
backward and downward to the frontal
parietal and through the squamous portion
of the temporal bone. The fracture on the
left side was in the same direction, and
affects the same portions of the bone as
the one upon the right. On this side there
is also a petrous portion of the temporal
bone, a fracture through the petrous por-
tion of the temporal bone at its upper sur-
face. The fracture on the right side of the
head is marked by the physician with a
pencil from this point to this point (indicat-
ing on the skull), passing through the
frontal bone, point of the parietal and the
temporal, the petrous portion of the tem-
poral bone. The fracture upon the left is
from this point, marked in red ink through
the frontal bone, parietal point, temporal
bºne. into the petrous portion of the tem-
poral bone on the line indicated there near-
est the center of the head. (Indicating on
skull.)
I will show it to all of them to save
handling it again (Mr. Erwin here shows
several physicians the skull.)
The skull of this woman was neither ex-
traordinary thick nor thin. Mr. Blixt tes-
tified that after driving the woman in the
neighborhod of a mile, during which time
he held her up by placing a robe against
her right side and head, and holding his
left hand against her head with the desire
to get her out of the buggy, and without
putting the top down, he stooped over in
the buggy and moved her limbs close to-
gether, and lifted them out of the buggy
box, and put his hands against her so
that she would zlot come against him, and
as soon as she came out of the buggy she
struck the front wheel, and after she
struck the front wheel she turned around,
and laid down on the side, and the wheel
went over the body, and he went on. The
portion of the body over which the wheel
ran, he testified was the limbs. He also
testified that she came down hard, in the
manner described in the question. He
testified no violence was done this woman
except the pistol shot; that the ground on
which she fell was frozen ground. The
woman was found lying upon her right
side, the limbs were slightly bent, the
skirt being thrown up over the limbs as
far as the knees. The right arm was be-
neath the body, and the face lay upon the
side, if anything, turned a little toward the
front. Beneath her face was found a pool
of blood extending over a circumference
of a diameter of a foot. The hair, upon
washing the body, was found to be dis-
heveled, and lose, with the exception of
the portion of the coil on the right hand
side of the head, which was held up by
the hairpin. There was no violence done to
the body between the time of finding the
body and the autopsy. Both fractures ex-
tended to the right and left side, extended
through both plates of the skull, both ta-
bles, the inner and outer; and through the
intervening space of the frontal bone, the
entire thickness of the skull, both plates
and the intervening space. In answer to
the question—“it was almost impossible to
pick that skull out, wasn’t it, upon de-
flection of the skull,” the physician answer-
ed: “If the fracture had been all around
you could have.” -
Mr. Nye–I would like to know if it is
necessary to review the testimony
The Court—The skull has been marked
and show for themeselves the extent of the
fracture
Mr. Erwin–Not its character; the extent
of it, that is all.
The Court—You show the character of
it, and they can probably judge for them-
selves.
Mr. Erwin–These fractures on the right
and left sides of the head, described in this
question, neither one of them connected
with the perforation of the wound at the
base of the brain, but were entirely dis-
tinct from that wound. Neither one of
them extended back to a point where they
connected with any fracture or radiation
from the bullet wound, but were separate
and distinct from the bullet wound so far
as concussion was concerned. Both frac-
tures were so extensive that the veins lying
in the synthetic arteries were ruptnred
where the fracture crosses the synthesis.
The fractures on both sides were visible
and noticeable upon the deflection of the
scalp, and immediately noticed—in fact
were noticed before. Now, under these cir-
cumstances, this state of facts as contained
in this question, in your opinion, was it
possible that the fractures—




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
225
The Court–One thing you onitted to
state, that is, that the evidence did not
show any other external bruise.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, the evidence showed no
other external bruises opposite the frac-
tures, contusions opposite the line of the
fracture.
The Court–Or anywhere else.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, or anywhere else around
the body or head. I have described it cate-
gorically, I think.
The Court—I think you have covered it.
Mr. Nye-It is not quite covered in re-
gard to the course it took.
The Court—It took a direct course from
where it went in to where it came out.
Mr. Hall–He described the point of exit
as the corner of the eye.
Mr. Erwin–What do you call it?
Mr. Hall—The orbit; the optic foramen.
Mr. Erwin–Wherever the word cornea is
used, it should be optic foramen. Under
these circumstances, including the buggy
and the manner of giving the wound, and
the manner of the fall, the place and the
character of the ground, and so on, every-
thing contained in the question, in your
opinion was it possible to have made
these fractures on the right and left side
of the head, to have broken the nose, and
to have cut the lip and to have made the
depression the size of a hazel nut on the
right side of the frontal bone, by a fall
out of the buggy as described 2
Mr. Nye-I object to it as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial, and not a ques-
tion for an expert, purely speculative, and
largely a question of mechanics.
The Court—Well, it may be. It depends
upon what construction the jury may give
to it. But I think the question is leading—
the proper questión would be under all the
circumstances what the result would be.
Mr. Erwin. Well, I only seek to bring
out that one point.
tioned upon other matters.
The Court. There is only one question
involved here, and that is what, in his
opinion, after hearing all the testimony,
would produce the fracture of the skull de-
scribed—that is, whether it could be pro-
duced under the circumstances as stated in
the hypothetical question.
Mr. Erwin. Well, I press the question,
just as it is written.
Mr. Nye. We make the same objection
that it is leading.
The Court. Objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin. Exception noted.
Q. Under the same state of facts stated
in the last hypothetical question, I will ask
you whether, in your opinion, the frac-
tures and the lacerations described in the
last question could have been made by the
fall out of the buggy?
Mr. Nye. It seems to me that is very
much the same as the other.
The Court. Let him answer it, if he can.
A. It occurs to me that it is exceedingly
improbable that all of those wounds could
have been made by a single fall.
Q. Give your reasons for that opinion.
A. Well, there are a great many different
points of attack; the head would certainly
have to be revolving very rapidly to make
so many wounds in one fall, that was the
first impression that occurred to me; that
was the first impression that was made
Upon my mind about it.
Q. You have the fall described in the hy-
He is here to be ques--
pothetical question, you have seen the
buggy and have heard described the frac-
tures upon each side of the head; you can
therefore plainly understand how much the
body revolved or was possible for it to re-
volve in that fall; and taking the hypothet-
ical case stated by the hypothetical ques-
tion, in your opinion, could these fractures
and lacerations, other than the bullet
wound have been made by that fall de-
scribed in the hypothetical question, from
that buggy, as seen by yourself? A. Why,
I say I think it rather improbable, so many
different wounds. I don’t know that I
have any other reason in believing they
were not all made at the same time.
Q. Do you believe that a fracture upon
the right and upon the left side of the
skull, as described in the hypothetical
question, could be made by a single blow
or by falling upon a single side?
Mr. Nye. That is objected to as incom-
petent, irrelevant, immaterial and calling
for a belief.
Mr. Erwin. I mean his professional be-
lief or opinion.
The Court. The objection is overruled.
A. I believe it could be done by a single
blow. -
Q. Under what circumstances? A. Well,
if the cranium had received a blow, for-in-
stance, on the other side, the side of frac-
ture here, you may possibly, probably, if
the individual is alive, have a contra-coupe,
or a counter-stroke in the way of a frac-
ture here opposite; very frequently the
fracture occurs on the opposite side from
which you receive the blow. I don’t know
but the same thing may occur with dead
persons, for that matter.
Q. Under the hypothetical question, is it
your opinion that the woman did or did
not receive the lacerations and fractures
described, other than the bullet wound, by
the fall described in the manner describedº
Mr. Nye–That is a repetition—he has al-
ready stated it might be probable.
Mr. Erwin–Well, it is entirely different
from the other question, on a different mat-
ter. It is connected with the same subject
matter, but it is not a question of possi-
bility; it is a question of direct opinion.
The Court—Well, it seems to me all of
these questions are improper, but I have
admitted them. The question is what, in
his opinion, after hearing all of the tes-
timony connected with this matter, pro-
duced the fractures of the skull as de-
scribed. I will allow him to answer the
question—be as liberal as I can.
Q. (Last question read to the witness.)
A.. I am under the impression she did not.
Q. If the woman was in the position de-
scribed by the hypothetical question, and
the shot was delivered as described by the
hypothetical question from a revolver of
38 caliber with extra long cartridges, as
described in the hypothetical question, and
she thereby received the wound described
by the hypothetical question, what in your
opinion would have been the effect upon
her as to jerking herself back in the buggy,
or what would be the natural and proba-
ble effect of such a wound under such cir-
cumstances?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial and leading.
The Court—Well, the witness has not
shown himself competent to testify in that
regard, I don’t think.





236
OFFICIAL sºnog RAPHIC REpoRT
Mr. Erwin–Then I will ask him further
in regard to that—whether or not he was
in the army.
Q. Were you in the army, doctor? A. I
was.
Q: Are you familiar with gunshot
wounds? A. Why, somewhat so, yes, sir.
Q. How much experience in the army did
you have with persons wounded with gun-
shot wounds—how long were you in that
department of service? A. I was in that
department of service from July, '62, to
December, '65.
Q. Well, you then had a very large ex-
perience, did you not? A. I think I did.
Q. And you had a very large experience
did you not, doctor, as to what the imme-
diate effects of gunshot wounds was 2 A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Now, I renew the hypotheti-
cal question objected to, and I ask that it
may be read.
Mr. Nye-The same objection,
foundation laid.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Erwin–Do you sustain it on the
ground, your honor, that no foundation is
laid 2
The Court—Yes, I don’t think it is a mat-
ter of expert testimony
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Doctor, was this wound necesarily
and no
a fatal wound, this wound of the pistol
ball? A. I think so, if I perceive a correct
description of it.
Q. Was it a wound which ordinarily
would produce death immediately? A. I
have an opinion on the subject, but I don’t
know whether I am competent to state it
or not.
Q. Well, unless they object to it, I think
you are. A. I think it is not a wound that
would necessarily kill immediately, not in-
stantly. .
Q: What effect would it have upon the
nervous and muscular systems, so far as
producing powerlessness or partial paraly-
sis? A. I don’t think I have an opinion
to express upon that subject.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Doctor, is it a fact that the skulls of
women are more brittle than those of
men? A: I am rather of the opinion that
they are. The plates are thinner.
Q. Do you think that the entrance of
the bullet into this portion of the rear of
the skull by expansion or compression of
any kind, might have caused those frac-
tures, which you say are almost in a line
with the bullet? A. That was the first
theory which presented itself to me, but I
have since had some skepticism on the sub-
iect.
J Q. Well, you are not entirely settled in
your opinion on that, are you? A. I don’t
know what caused the fracture.
Q. Well, in your opinion, might not that
be possible? A. Barely possible, barely
possible—not at all probable.
Q. well, now, as to the question of the
body, where it might strike and what the
effect might be, you give an opinion just
the same as a non-professional, on that
question, do you not? A. No, sir, I think
not. If the exact condition in which the
body fell was given, I could then tell the
effect of it.
Q. But you were not there to see the ex-
act position? A. No, sir.
Q. Or as to the condition of the ground,
in reference to the roughness of surface
and so forth? A. No, sir.
Q. If I hold an apple in my hand 10 feet
from the floor and let it fall, you cannot
tell me, before I let it fall, just the effects
of the fall, or the way it will fall, or the
extent of the bruises that will be on it?
A. No, sir.
- S. F. Hanee
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. What is your proession? A. Physic-
ian, and surgeon. -
Q. Did you have any army service? A.
I did; surgeon of a regiment and medical
director.
Q. Now, I will ask you, doctor, whether,
as a physician and surgeon, you can tes-
tify as to the effect upon the nervous and
muscular systems of the human body, with
relation to the tension or relaxation of
those systems by a ball going in at the
right of the medulla, and passing into the
base of the brain up into this optic fore-
arm, this funnel shaped bone–answer that
by yes or no, whether you have a profes-
sional opinion? A. I have. -
Q. I will ask you what the effect would
be?
Mr. Hall–That is objected to as incompe-
tent and no proper foundation laid.
The Court—Well, if you want to test his
ability as an expert, you can examine him.
Examination by Mr. Hall.
Q. Doctor, have you ever been present
and seen a person shot in exactly the same
place as this woman was, with the bullet
traversing the same portions of the head
and fracturing the same bones, and with
the person sitting in the same position as
this body was 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Have you ever seen any head shot
through and witnessed the action of the
person shot after the shot in such a chair-
acter as this? A. A similar character as
that, I have.
Q. Traversing the same portion of the
brain? A. Passing directly through the
cranium and the brain.
Q. Well, the motor nerves are differently
situated in the brain; they are not all in
the same place, are they? A. Certainly
not.
Q. Well, would not the track of the bul-
iet through the brain determine almost
entirely the effect upon the nerves? A.
Very much, sir.
Q. Then, if you had not seen a bullet
traversing the brain through the same
track as this, are you able to tell the same
effect upon the body? A. Only with my
individual opinion, sir.
Q. Then, that is an opinion not based
upon any observations, but a theory? A.
Partly upon both.
Mr. Hall–I submit it.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Smith—An exception, please.
Mr. Erwin–What is the objection?
Mr. Hall–Not competent and no proper
foundation laid.
(Examination by Mr. Smith.)
Q. I will ask you further, doctor,
whether you have seen the effect—never
mind about the ball going anywhere, ex-
cept through the base of the brain, but
whether you have noticed the effect of a
ball passing substantially through the
-




















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
237
same point as it passed through the brain
of Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. We don't care where the ball was, but
only the effect of it passing through the
brain at the same point it went through
Miss Ging's brain. A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you testify from observation as
a physician and surgeon as to the result
upon the muscular and nervous systems
of the human body? A. That is the same
question—shall I answer it?
Mr. Nye. The same objection.
The Court. The objection is overruled.
A. Instantaneous relaxation of the entire
muscular system.
Q. Answer yes or no, whether you have
from your observation? A: I said I had.
Q. Now, I will ask you the further ques-
tion, what the effect is?
The Court. How extensive has been your
observation 2
The Witness.
ticular.
The Court. Is that all?
The Witness. That is the only one that
occurs to me now as being—
The Court. The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin. Exception.
Mr. Smith. I would like to have the
counsel state in addition to that hypotheti-
cal question, as to what the evidence shows
as to the height of the buggy and what
kind of a buggy it was, from which this
woman fell, and then I desire to ask Dr.
Norrid another question.
Mr. Nye. I don’t think there has been an
exact measurement taken. The jury has
seen the buggy, though.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Norred made the meas-
urement last night, and I would like to
have him state, but not as an expert.
Mr. Nye. We have no objection.
Q. Dr. Norrid, will you state the meas-
trements?
Dr. Norrid, I measured last night from
the bottom of the floor to the top of the
box and I got 35 inches and a half, exclu-
sive of the seat, just coming to the top of
the box where you life your feet over.
Mr. Nye. From the floor on which the
wheels stood?
Dr. Norrid. To the top edge of the box.
Mr. Smith. And that measurement was
without anyone being in the buggy? A.
Yes, sir, without anyone being in the bug-
gy at all.
Mr. Smith. Did you test whether there
would be a sinking of the buggy with two
persons in it or not?
Dr. Norrid. Yes, sir, there was some.
Well, that would not be more
I recall one case in par-
Dr. Norrid. A couple of inches.
Mr. Nye. Would it be that much, doctor?
Dr. Norrid. Well, yes, with two persons,
anyway.
Mr. Erwin. The height of the box was
in the neighborhood of eight inches from
the bottom to the top of the side board?
Dr. Norrid. Six inches is the usual
height of a piano box—I don’t know what
that would be.
Mr. Erwin. Then from the top of the
box how high was it to the level of the
sea tº
Dr. Norrid. Well, I should say five or six
inches, anyway.
Mr. Smith. And the distance between the
tires of the forward and hind wheels when
the phills were pointed forward and not
cramped, would be what?
Dr. Norrid—I did not measure it, but I
should judge about one foot. I did not
measure that, I am guessing at that.
Mr. Erwin–Now, the bow of the buggy,
when the top was up, extended in front
of the seat, did it not?
Dr. Norrid–Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–So that the front of the top
was but a few inches behind the dash-
board 2
Dr. Norrid–Yes,
portion of it.
Mr. Erwin–And the bow extended from
that point down to the corner of the seat?
Dr. Norrid–Yes, sir.
Q. I now desire to ask you, doctor, the
statement based upon the hypothetical
question, whether or not the fractures upon
both sides of the head could have been
produced by the person falling from the
carriage, or being slid or thrown from the
carriage in the manner stated in the hy-
pothetical statement and question—the
fracture upon both sides of the head?
Mr. Nye-The same objection.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
A. I don’t think they were.
Q. Will you give me your reasons, doctor?
A. Yes, sir. In the first place, the frac-
ture is through the thickest portion of the
skull, where it requires the greatest amount
of violence to produce a fracture, and it
was so low down that if she was pitched
out on her face, the fracture would not
have occurred at that noint.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Is 'not your opinion, doctor, largely
formed from your conception of how she
the extreme forward
might have fallen 2 A. Partially; not
wholly.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith. -
Have you given the matter some
thought, doctor? A. Yes, sir; I have read
the autopsy.
William D. Meyers
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Mr. Smith–I will ask lor. Hance one
more question with your permission, Mr.
Nye?
Mr. Nye-Very well.
Mr. Smith–Dr. Hance, what would you
say about this fall, striking upon one side
of the head, as to fracturing both sides of
the head, under the conditions of the hy-
pothetical statement and the hypothetical
question 2
Dr. Hance—Well, it is hard to speak of
impossibilities, for it comes almost within
the range of impossibilities to fracture
both sides of the skull by falling on one
side, at that age, especially—and I might
explain a little further if you desire. At
that age the bones are yielding, and the
sutres are not knitted firmly together; you
would get a reaction, good deal of depres–
Sion there without a fracture.
Mr. Nye-But you would look for some
external proof or contusion, would you
not, above the fractures? -
Dr. Hance—Not necessarily. It was pro-
tected some, I understand, by the hair
which was down.
Mr. Nye-A certain portion of the frac-
ture would be, but not all of it.
Dr. Hance—No, sir, it was not all; it was
extensive, the fracture was, and when it





238 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHTC REPORT
gave way from the point of contact there
it might spread either way.
Mr. Nye-You have taken considerable in-
terest in this case, doctor?
Dr. Hance—No, sir; no interest further
than as a citizen of this city.
Mr. Nye-Not quite within the range of
impossibilities, then?
Dr. Hance—When you talk of impossi-
bilities, you are saying a great deal.
Mr. Nye-Well, you said not quite within
the range of impossibility?
Dr. Hance—Oh, I would not say that it
was impossible. -
Q. Dr. Meyers, your full name is–? A.
William D. Meyers.
Q. Have you had much experience with
pistol shot wounds, gun shot wounds, frac-
tures? A. I have.
Q. You heard both the hypothetical state-
ments and hypothetical question propound-
ed to Drs. Norrid and Hance? A. I have.
Q. Have you seen the carriage in which
Miss Ging is alleged to have been murdered
in 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now I will ask you what experience
you have had with gun shot, pistol or any
other missile, going through the base of
the brain, substantially where it is shown
by the hypothetical question that the pis-
tol ball passed through Miss Ging's brain?
A. I saw a great number of such wounds,
or at least wounds that would approximate
the one described in the hypothetical ques-
tion during my military experience. I
have seen a great many cases of fracture
of the skull produced by mechanical vio-
lence, similar to the one outlined by the
physician who made the autopsy in this
case.
Q. I will ask you if you know, based on
upon your experience and knowledge a
professional opinion as to the effect upon
the muscular and nervous systems of the
human body, by a ball passing through
the base of the brain, where it is shown
that this ball passed through the brain of
Catherine Ging; answer the question yes
or no? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you now, waiting for an
objection—to state what the effect would be
upon the muscular and nervous systems of
a wound similar in character to this, de-
scribed in the hypothetical question?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent and
no proper foundation laid.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Smith—An exception noted. The
court heard what his statement was, that
he had had a large experience.
The Court—Well, the question is this,
have you stood by them and seen them
shot?
The Witness—No. sir, I have not. I have
had no experience with the living brain,
with a revolver, myself, and I don’t know
of any other physician that has.
Q. I will ask, you, doctor, for your pro-
fessional opinion, based upon the hypo-
thetical statement and the hypothetical
question in this case of the falling from a
buggy, or sliding or being thrown from a
buggy in the manner stated in the hypo-
thetical question, with relation to the frac-
tures on both sides of the skull; you can
state that, in regard to the sliding or fall-
ing, and then in relation to its effect upon
the fractures of the skull, upon one or both
sides?
The Court–Basing your opinion, doctor,
upon the hypothetical question as de-
scribedº A. As described in the hypotheti-
cal question, and the fracture as outlined
by the autopsy, I don’t think the mechani-
cal violence was sufficient to produce them,
or was possible.
Q. You may state your reasons, doctor,
if you have any further reasons? A. Well,
basing my opinion upon general experience
and practice of long years, I never have
seen a fracture of the cranial bone where
the subject did not fall a greater distance
than three or four feet, excepting children
with very tender cranial bones that had
fallen upon some obtuse or sharp object,
such as screws upon the floor. I have seen
punctures or fractures done in such cases.
But to cause a puncture to the cranial bone
by simply falling two or three feet, I never
Witnessed such occurrence.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. The fractures are largely through the
thinner portion of the skull? A. That por-
tion of the line of fracture which passes
through the temporal bone, of course, is
the thinnest portion of the cranial bone;
the petris of the parietal and the angle
of the frontal bone are bones that are
quite thick, as thick as any you will find
in the head; but this portion of the frac-
ture is through the thinnest portion of the
cranial bone.
Q. I am talking about this case; your
opinion as to this case is based upon your
estimate of the force and violence with
which the body was thrown upon the froz-
en ground? A. It is, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. You understand from the hypothetical
question and hypothetical statement as to
the manner in which the person went out
of the carriage? A. Why, of course; that
is all embodied in the answer.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m., Feb. 18, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 18.
The Court—You may proceed.
Mr. Erwin–Mr. Sweetser is to bring some
books up and will be here in a few min-
utes.
The Court—I have sent for Mr. Blixt,
and if he has no objection, you can pro-
ceed.
Mr. Odell–Mr. Blixt has no objection
whatever.
The Court—I will want the statement of
Mr. Blixt himself.
Mr. Odell—I want to say further that his
attorney has no objection.
Mr. Nye-The state withdraws all objec-
tion.
The Court—I will call for Mr. Blixt. If
he has no objection, you may proceed.
Mr. Shumaker—I learned that Miss
Wachtler is sick this morning, is suffering
from a very aggravated sore throat, and
cannot be here this morning; but will
probably be able to be here at 2 p. m.
Claus A. Blixt here entered the court
room and sat down near the court.
The Court—The defense here has offered
Miss Wachtler as a witness, who was a
stenographer that took your statement in
the presence of your attorney, Mr. Odell.









OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
239
the day before Christmas in your cell
º Have you any objections to her tes-
ng? -
º ºn No. sir. I have no objections.
Thomas A. Waterman
rn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
". ºn". Waterman is to be *.
finally upon two topics; one as
º was on that day, and the
other is a topic that can better be passed
upon by the court after Harry Hayward is
sworn. And I will examine him on this
topic of the alibi now, and reserve the
right to call him on the other topic after-
**. you a married man? A. No, sº
Q. Where did you live in December last?
A. At 6 Thirteenth street south. -
Q. Are you acquainted with the defend-
ant? A. Yes, sir. I was introduced to Mr.
Hayward about four years a so, but did not
see him again until the latter Paº of last
March, when I went up on "Thirteenth street
ive. -
º you know Miss Kate Ging? A: I
did. Have known her since the latter part
h, 1894.
*...*. I will ask you if on the 3d day
of December, Monday, if you saw Mr.
Harry Hayward? A: I did. I saw him.
about 10 o'clock, I should say, first. sº
him at dinner, or at lunch rather, about
half past 12 at 6 Thirteenth street south.
Q. The building is located immediately
behind the Ozark? A. Yes. I next saw him.
at his office, about, well, about half past 1,
from half past 1 to 2. Adry was there, I
think; I did not know him at that time,
recognize him since. -
". º me ask you what time did
you get down town that morning, down
from your boarding house? A. I got down
about—I left the house about 1. o'clock, I
should say, that day. -
Q: What kept you from going down be:
fore 1 o'clock? A. I did not get up until
nearly 12 that morning.
Q. s. it has been testified by Adry
Hayward that you were in the office in the
Oneida Block on that morning. I want to
call your attention sharply to that testi-
mony, so that in reference to it you may
answer the question—where were you that
morning? A. I was in my room all the
morning up to most 12 o'clock. -
Q. Then you were not in the Oneida.
Block? A. Not before half past 1 any-
way.
Q. Now, at half past 1 you say you were
in the Oneida Block? A. Yes, about that
time.
Q. For what purpose did you go there?
A. I went there to see Mr. Hayward; I
was to meet him there about half past 1
that Monday afternoon.
Q. Which Hayward. A. Harry.
Mr. Erwin. I will pass that point. I
want to trace him down now to the even-
ing.
Mr. Nye. We don’t make any objection
to his telling the whole story now. It will
save time. The cross-examination might
bring it out. -
Mr. Erwin. I will state briefly what his
testimony is. His testimony is as to his
knowledge of Miss Ging; knowledge of their
relations; that Harry Hayward stated that
Miss Ging was doing away in some way
with the $7,000 which he had loaned her and
what he did in that regard and his conver-
sation with Miss Ging, and then his report
to Mr. Hayward, what her report was and
so on. It follows our proof of the validity
of that loan, and so forth. My idea now is
simply to trace his whereabouts down to
the evening.
Q. How long did you remain with Mr.
Hayward that afternoon in the office. A I
was with him most of the afternoon up to
about a quarter to 7, I should say. It might
have been a little earlier than that. I
Would not say positively in regard to the
time.
Q. How long did you remain in the office?
A: I was not there more that five minutes,
perhaps. I went up to the office and Mr.
Hayward was not there, and I waited there
a few minutes and then went out to take
the elevator to go down, and while I was
Waiting for the elevator Hayward came llo,
and so I went back in the office and was
there perhaps three or four minutes more.
Q. Then where did you go? A. Then I
went from there; Mr. Hayward went down
the elevator with me, and we I think We
first—well, Mr. Hayward was to meet me
at Fisher's cigar store at Hennepin and
Fourth street, and I was to go up to see
Miss Ging at that time.
Q. Just give an account of your travels
and your meeting with Hayward that af-
ternoon. A. After I had been up to Miss
Ging, I came back to Fisher's cigar store,
and met Mr. Hayward there, and then we
came down and we stopped into the Zephyr
saloon, on Nicollet.
Q. About what time was that? A. That
was, I should say, about, oh, from a quar-
ter past 2 until half past 2; and from there
We went down, we started for the Dime
Museum, and we stopped at Barge's saloon
on the corner, and then went over to the
Dime Museum, and, perhaps, well, we were
there, perhaps, from a half to three-quar-
ters of an hour, and then we went down to
a shooting gallery at Washington, well, I
think it is between Fourth and Fifth ave-
nues south—I won’t be positive where that
was, and we came back and stopped into
the Midway saloon and restaurant, and
then we walked up and stopped again at
Barge's, I think, and we got up to Hof-
flin's drug store, at the corner of First
avenue south and Washington, and we met
a lady there. She evidently got off from a
car, and Mr. Hayward, she was an ac-
quaintance of his, and I also found that I
had met her three or four years previously.
And we went up First avenue south to
Third street; up Third street to Second ave-
nue south; up Second avenue south to
Fourth street, and down Fourth street to,
well, I don’t know the name of the place.
It was rooms in a block adjoining the
Oneida Block on Fourth street, and we
went upstairs over the saloon into a room
in the front part, and Mr. Hayward left
us at the bottom of the stairs, and he said
he would join us shortly. We were per-
haps up there 15 minutes, or 10 minutes,
when Mr. Hayward came in. -
Q. About what time was this? A. This
was about 4 o’clock; and then we came
down, and the three of us went up to Mr.
Naegle's office, at Fourth street and Nicol-
let, and she transacted some business there.
Then we came down and passed up Nicol-
let avenue to Fifth street to Elliot's jew-
elry store, and Mr. Hayward left us there






240 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
again and said he would join us in a few
minutes. This was between half past 4 and
5–I could not say positively as regards the
time; and we were in there 10 minutes more
or less, and came out and passed up the
street, Nicollet, and met Mr. Hayward
about in the middle of the block, and we
went down Sixth street, and she took an
interurban car, and we went down Sixth
street to the West Hotel, went in there
and played a short game of billiards.
Q. What time was that? A. I should say
it was about a quarter to 6 when we left
the West Hotel; went down to Fisher's ci-
gar store, and we went in there about half
past 6, and Mr. Hayward, or Mr. Fisher
rather, about that time put on his coat. He
was living down at the same place I was,
and he walked up to the house with us
that night; and we got up to the Ozark and
Mr. Hayward—
Q. About what time? A. I should say
it was about a quarter to 7 when we got up
there; I am not positive in regard to the
time, because I did not have any way of
fixing it, nor a watch, and Mr. Hayward
went into the Ozark, and Mr. Fisher and I
passed along to 6 Thirteenth street south.
In the hall we met Miss Vetter coming
down the stairs, and she passed along into
the dining room and I perhaps was in my
room five minutes, possibly not that long,
and then I went into the dining room for
my dinner. I had been there a short time
when Mr. Hayward came in and I left the
dining room, I should say about a quarter
past 7; and I don’t know positively whether
Hayward was there when I left or not.
He was there only a few minutes, and I
did not see him go out. And then I went
into my room and got a cigar, and went
up stairs, and I went skating With Some
ladies that evening. I did not see him again
until the next morning.
Q. Do you recollect how Mr. Hayward
was dressed that afternoon? A. He had
on a dark overcoat. I do not know whether
he had on a cutaway or not.
Q. Did he have on a double breasted
coat? A. I could not say positively. He
was in the habit of wearing a double
breasted overcoat and a cutaway.
Q: What kind of a hat had he? A. He
had on a black derby.
Q. You left the dining room at 15 minutes
past 7; what is your best recollection
whether Hayward was or was not in the
dining room when you left? A. My best
recollection is that he was there, although
I could not say positively.
Q. How many minutes before you left do
you remember distinctly having seen him?
A. Not more than five minutes.
Q. Did he sit at the same table with you?
A. He did not.
You say you left the dining room at
15 minutes past 7? A. I said about that
time; I would not be positive in regard to
that time.
Q. You recollect positively seeing Mr.
Hayward at his place a few moments be-
fore you left, and think he was in the din-
ing room when you left? A. Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You have been quite a friend of Mr.
Hayward's? A. Yes, sir; I have seen a
good deal of him.
Q. You have been intimate and chumming
with him? A. Yes, sir, perhaps.
Q. You were with him in a hack which
this hackman described to the jury, weren't
you? A. I don’t know.
Q. Were you with Mr. Hayward at one
time in a hack driven by Peter Vallery
and at which time Vallery remained in th.
hack and had a long talk with Hayward?
A.. I don’t know.
Q. You know as a matter of fact you
were one of the company that took that
ride? A. Not that very ride; no, sir. I
have been with Hayward and parties when
Mr. Vallery has been driving, but could
not say say that particular night. I don't
know what the night is, of course.
Q. Weren't you with Harry in Lally's
saloon when he got whisky on the morning
of the 3d? A. No, sir; I was not; I was
º down town on the morning of the 3d at
all.
Q. Without calling your attention to the
business for which you were to go and see
Miss Ging, it is a fact, is it not, that on
the Sunday previous, the day previous,
Harry wanted you to see Miss Ging for
* º Yes, sir.
- ou did not see her on º
I did not. - Sunday? A.
Q. Monday morning Harry came in your
room and asked you if you had seen her?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You told him no, but yo
day? A. Yes. you would to-
Q. You did not go until about 11 o'clock?
: It was later than that; it was nearer
Q. And then took dinner after that? A.
I took lunch; yes, sir.
Q. Then from the Ozark, or from your
lunch, you went to Miss Ging's shop? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You saw her and then went to the
Oneida block? A. No, I did not see her
the first time. -
Q. Where did you go from there the
first time? A. I went down to the Oneida
block, but I did not see Miss Ging the
first time that I called.
Q. You did not see Harry the first time
that you went to the Oneida block? A.
Yes, sir. -
Q. Did you tell him that you had not
seen her? A. Yes.
Q. What time was that? A. Between
half past 1 and 2 when I saw Harry the
first time, yes, sir.
Q. Then you had not seen Miss Ging? A.
I had not seen Miss Ging, and that is what
I told Hayward in the Oneida Block.
Q. Where was Harry when you did come
and seen Miss Ging? A. Harry was waiting
at Fisher's cigar store at Fourth and Hen-
nepin.
Q. You were in the office in the Oneida
Block, then, twice; that is, you waited a
little bit for Harry? A. Yes, sir; there
might have been a very few minutes be-
tween—I had not left the upper hall.
Q. You had not left the hall, but had
left the office? A. I had left the office,
passed out of the office and went back
again in two or three minutes.
Q. As a matter of fact, when Adry says
you called once about the noon hour and
came back, he was not far out of the way?
A. He was out of the way according to
the noon hour—because it was—
Q. Well, you are not accurate in time.
you don't claim to be? A. No, sir, I can
not say positively.





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
241
Q. What did you go to Fisher's for? A.
I left Harry at Fourth and Nicollet and
we went over to Fisher's and I pased over
to Miss Ging's, and we were to meet in at
Fisher's when I came back.
Q. Was there any particular reason for
meeting you at Fisher's? A. No particular
reason; no, sir.
Q. How long an interview did you have
with Miss Ging? A. Fifteen minutes, per-
Q. What time do you fix as the time you
visited Miss Ging? A. Well, it was shortly
after 2 o’clock, I should think.
Q. Did you see anybody else in there?
A. Not the last time. The first time I was
up Miss Ireland came to the door and said
that Miss Ging was out.
Q. After the second visit when you went
back to Fisher's? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did you do at Fisher's? A. Do
you want me to repeat the conversation 1
had with Harry at Fisher's?
Mr. Nye-Well, I suppose the counsel will
object to that.
Mr. Erwin–No, I don't object. ,
Mr. Nye-Where was the conversation,
in the cigar store? A. No, sir, it was, I
think, just outside. I think that he saw
me and came out.
Q. It was not in the presence or hearing
of anybody else, was it? A. I don't know;
I would not say positively in regard to
that.
Q. Don't you know, as a matter of fact,
it was something that he did not want
the public to know? A. I don’t think that
he did.
Q. You don’t think he did want it? A.
No, sir; there may have been somebody
passing at that time.
Q. What did you say to him? A. I told
Harry I thought everything was all right
with Miss Ging as far as she was con-
cerned, I thought, was sincere in her part
of it.
Q. What part of tt? A. Well, I would
have to repeat the conversation that I had
had with Mr. Hayward, probably, Mr. Nye,
so that you could understand it.
Mr. Nye (to Mr. Erwin)—Are you go-
ing to put this witness on again?
Mr. Erwin–You can examine him now if
you wish. I am going to put him on again.
And furthermore, you can have a right to
impeach him if you put him on now.
Mr. Nye-State what you went to see
Miss Ging for. A. Sunday at the dinner
table Mr. Hayward said he wanted to see
me after dinner. I says “All right.” After
dinner we went in my room, which was
right at the entrance of the dining room,
and he says: “Waterman, I have loaned
Miss Ging that money that I was telling
you about some time ago,” and he says
that “I am afraid she is trying to do me
up.” He told me some time about loaning
her money three or four months before.
Q. Sure about that? A. It was some
time.
Q. Did he say how much?
that time, I don’t think.
Q. Do you know whether he did or not?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Go on; answer. A. He said that he
had loaned Miss Ging money, and that he
was afraid she was trying to do him up, or
that some third party was with her and
trying to beat him out of his money. He
said that if he did lose it he would be prac-
A. Not at
tically broke; that he only had about $75;
and he showed me two letters which he
had recived from Miss Ging, and wanted
me, as a friend of his, to go up and see
her, and if possible to find out where the
money was that he had loaned her, and
he said that if it was in a safety deposit
vault he wished to attach it. He also spoke
about some insurance policies being as-
signed—I don’t know that I could—that was
about all.
Q. In the meantime were you saying
anything at all? A. No, sir, not very
much.
Q. That looked very reasonable and
plausible to you, did it not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You had been at No. 6 Thirteenth how
long? A. I had been there since the latter
part of last March.
Q. Were you very much of the time with
Harry? A. No, sir.
Q. A good deal of the time? A. Well, I
will tell you, my business—yes, I was with
him some evenings, but outside of that,
during the day, I was not with him at all.
Q. You knew very well that he was
keeping company with Miss Ging most of
the time when he went out? A. No, sir, I
did not. I knew that he was a friend of
Miss Ging and that he was with her a
good deal of the time.
Q. You and Harry were in Miss Ging's
room on Sunday, the day before this Mon-
day on which you went to see Miss Ging?
A. Sunday a week, I think I was up there.
Q. Will you swear that you were not in
Miss Ging's room on Sunday that 2d day
of December with Harry and Miss Ire-
land? A. Sunday, the 2d—well, I don’t
know. I was either up there the second or
the Sunday previous to that time.
Q. Don't you know that on Sunday or
Saturday night Harry was in her room
with her and Miss Ireland until after 11
o'clock? A. No, sir.
Q. He caressing her and she him? A.
No, sir.
Q. Don't you know as a matter of fact
and reputation Miss Ging kept company
with anybody else? A. She had very few
gentlemen callers.
Q. Men in the city whom you knew? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Why didn't it suggest itself to your
mind to ask him who he thought it was
that was going to do him up? A. I don't
know, Mr. Nye, why it didn't, I am sure.
Q. You were there the little obedient
servant of Harry, to go and do what he
wanted, without asking any questions—is
that so? A. No, sir, I did not look at it
in that way.
Q. What did he expect to do if he did
find where she kept the money? A. He
said if it was in a safety deposit vault he
wished to attach it.
Q. Did he tell you he just took that note
on the 24th of November? A. No, sir.
Q. Did he tell you what security he had
for it? A. He gave me to understand, or
I got the idea that there was to be some
insurance policies transferred from her to
him, but I understood at that time that
there was some hitch in the proceedings so
that it left him practically without any
security. -
Q. Did he tell you there was any hitch—
did he tell you on Sunday, the 2d of De-
cember, there was any hitch? A: I would


242 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
not swear to that, but I got that impres–
sion in the conversation.
Q. Don’t you know, as a matter of fact,
that he had an assignment of the policy
complete before that? A. No, sir; I did
not; the first time I had heard of the
policies was that day.
Q. What was your idea in going to Miss
Ging, what for? A. My idea was going up
there to find out if possible how that she,
whether she intended to go into business
or not, and if possible if I could find out
where she had the money that he loaned
her.
Q. Why didn't you ask her Sunday? A.
Sunday, I wasn’t there Sunday.
Q. Will you swear that you were not
there? A. Sunday?
Q. Yes, at the Ozark in her room? A.
Sunday, the 2d 2
Q. Yes, sir. A. Yes, I will.
Q. Did you see her Saturday? A. I
think not, I don’t think that I had seen
her until the 25th, the previous Sunday.
Q. Did you have any doubt about her
going into business? A. I did not, no,
sir, after I had seen her.
Q. Well, before, when Harry talked to
you? A. No, sir, I did not, because I had
not thought about it.
Q: Why didn’t you say to Harry: If she
has made this loan to you recently and
says she will go into business why don’t
you trust her—why didn’t you say so? A.
I don’t know why I did not.
Q. Did you know when the loan had
been made or pretended to have been
made? A. No, sir.
Q. Did not ask any questions? A. No,
sir.
Q. Well, when you saw Miss Ging what
did you say to her? A. I went in and
congratulated Miss Ging on the fact of her
going into business.
Q. State, if you can, the words that you
said and that she said 2 A. I don’t be-
lieve I can.
Q. Give it as near as you can'? A. She
seemed quite elated over the fact, and said
she could not see any reason why she could
not succeed. She spoke of renting the
store across the street, I think that Strauss
& Murray are now in, and said she had
just been over there; that they were out,
in regard to the rental of the store. Said
she was going there soon to see them in
regard to the store. I said: “Miss Ging,
you have got a good deal of money now.
You seem to be pretty well fixed.” She
said: “Oh, yes, Waterman, we could paint
the town now very nicely.” That is the
way she expressed it. That was all that I
remember.
Q. You went back to Fisher's and re-
peated that? A. Yes, I did; I did not re-
peat the whole of the conversation.
Q. Substantially? A. No, sir; I told
Harry that I thought everything was all
right and Miss Ging seemed perfectly sin-
cere in the fact of her going into business,
and I did not think she was trying to do
him up, and asked me if I found out where
she had the money; I told him. I did not.
Q: What did he say? A: I don't think
he said very much; I don’t think Miss
Ging's name was mentioned after that time
to me.
Q: Who suggested this rambling tramp
to the Dime Museum? A: I think Harry
proposed to go down to the Dime Museum.
You were out of employment? A.
Yes, sir, at that time.
Q. How long had you been out of em-
ployment? A. Since, I think it was a few
days before Thanksgiving.
Q. Did you drink considerable that after-
noon 2 A. Not very much; no, sir.
Q. You got pretty full before evening?
No, sir; I was not full that afternoon.
Q. How long had you known this girl
you picked up in the street? A. I had met
her, as I said, four years previously, but
had never seen her up to that time before,
and I had forgotten her entirely.
Q. Had you ever been into a room be-
fore with her? A. No, sir.
Q. After you left that place Harry joined
you there at the room? A. Yes, and we
went right down over to Mr. Naegel's, and
then back to Elliot's jewelry store.
Q. And Harry there left you and the
lady in the store? A. When we went in,
and said he would meet us when we came
out up the street between Fifth and Sixth.
Q. How long do you think you were in
the store? A. We were in there 10 min-
utes, more or less.
Q. You were not taking any particular
notice of the time? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know where Harry went
then? A. No, sir; I do not.
Q. Did he say anything to you about
where he was going? A. He did not.
Q. It might have been 15 or 20 minutes,
might it not? A. I do not think that long.
Q. To the best of your judgment, 15 min-
utes? A. The best of my judgment, it
would be about 10.
Q. You got to the hotel to play billiards,
I think you said, about half past 5? A. It
was in that neighborhood—I do not know
exactly what time it was.
Q. About a quarter to 6, I think you said
–5:45–you got to the West Hotel? A. When
we got to the West Hotel?
Q. Yes, you so testified. A. I left the
West Hotel about a quarter to 6; I don’t
think that I said we got there a quarter
to 6.
Q. I understood you to say you got there
about a quarter to 62 A. No, sir; I think
you are mistaken. We left there about a
quarter to 6.
Q. Haven’t you told me that you got
back to Fisher's about half past 5? A.
No, sir.
Q. You are sure about that? A. Pretty
sure.
Q. Very sure? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Very sure that you did not tell me
you were at Fisher's and shook dice from
half past 5 to half past 6? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Sure you did not tell me two or three
times that? A. I am; I know I did not.
Q. How long were you at the West Ho-
tel? A. We played a short game of bill-
iards at the West Hotel, perhaps we were
there 20 minutes to half an hour.
Q. Don't you think you got back to the
West Hotel as early as 5 o'clock, or 10 min-
utes past 5? A. I think not. It is the best
of my judgment.
Q. Harry did not say anything about Miss
Ging coming there at 5:15 and ordering a
horse? A. No, sir; Miss Ging's name was
not mentioned from the time I left him
that afternoon.
Q. Don't you know it must have been in







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
243
-
the neighborhood of 5:15 when you got over
to the West Hotel? A. No, sir.
Q. During all that afternoon of pleasure
and drinking, etc., you didn't keep track of
the time at all? A. No, sir, I did not, as I
said; I could not swear positively.
Q. You are fixing the time that you left
Fisher's according to Harry's notion? A.
No, sir, I am not.
Q: Didn't you and Harry pass the West
Hotel, the side of Hennepin avenue, going
from Fifth street towards Sixth street, be-
fore 6 o'clock that night on your way to-
wards the Ozark? A. No, sir; we walked
directly up on the opposite side of the street,
and did not cross the street at all.
Q. Wasn't it a fact that you passed that
hotel that night on your way towards the
Ozark, and Harry was there inside and
earnest in laying it down in this way (at-
torney claps his hands) and talking low to
you? A. Not to my knowledge, no, sir.
Q. Now, was there any appointment made
some time in the afternoon between you
and Harry, some understanding of a meet-
ing at night? A. The appointment was
made just before we got to the Ozark flats.
Harry asked me what I was going to do
that evening; I told him I was going skat-
ing; he said he was going to make a call,
and he asked me if I would meet him about
10 o'clock at the Ozark, I said yes.
Q. Did he say what for? A. No, sir; I do
not know. I thought likely to go down town
to have lunch.
Q. That is what you ordinarily did? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. He did that at the restaurant? A. Yes,
sir; I thought very likely we would go
down to get a lunch.
Q. Went out with the ladies, one of whom
was Miss Ging, generally to lunch? A. No,
sir; I think that I went with Hayward and
Miss Ging twice.
Q. Didn't you ask him what he wanted
you to meet him at 10 o'clock for? A. No,
sir. -
Q. Didn't say anything about it? A. No,
sir
Q. You expected to stand out on the cor-
ner about 10 o’clock and meet him? A. I
expected he would be around there about
10 o'clock, and my room was on the ground
floor; he very often came around there.
Q. Now, it didn’t take five minutes to
walk from Fourth street down to the
Ozark? A. From Fourth street to the
Ozark? -
Q. Yes, A. From 10 to 15 minutes, I should
say, ordinarily.
You will not swear of your own
knowledge what time it was you left Fish-
er's? A. I cannot; no, sir.
Q. It might have been as early as 62 A.
No, sir; I think not.
Q. You think that because of the con-
stant reminders you had from Harry? A.
No, sir; it is not. I have had no reminders.
Q. You looked at any time? A. I did
not, but I say about—to my best judg-
ment—I have no means–
Q. When you went to the Ozark you
waited? A. I waited at the house, 6 Thir-
teenth street.
Q. You were there about five minutes
preparing for supper? A. I should say so.
Q. Went in to supper? A. Yes.
Q. At No. 62 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Some 10 or 15 minutes later you think
Harry came in? A. No, sir, it was earlier
than that that he came in. Perhaps I had
been in the dining room a little over three
to five minutes when he came in.
Q. How do you form your judgment on
that? A. I saw him coming into the
dining room, and I know about how long
I had been there. I could not say positive-
ly in regard to the time.
Q. Did Miss Vedder go into the dining
room as you went in 2 A. She went into
the dining room as I went into the hall.
Q. Then she was in the dining room
when you went in to your supper? A. She
was; yes, sir.
Q: Who else was in the dining room
when you went in to your supper? A. As
I remember it, Miss Vedder was the only
one there.
Q. Do you remember how many were in
the dining room when you went out? A. I.
think they were most all there when I
Went out.
Q. Well, who was most all?
there was five or six.
Q. Now, try and be as accurate in that
matter as you can. I don’t want you to
say what you think, but what you are
reasonably certain of 2 A. Well, I should
say there were at least six at my table
when I left.
Q. Well, who were they? A . Well, there
was Miss Vedder and the two Esler girls,
and I think Mr. Lucy was there and Mr.
Bennett. I think that is all. I think there
were five.
Q. Mrs. Mathers there? A. They were
at the other table in the same room.
Q. I am speaking about the dining room,
not the table particularly that you was at:
but I want to know who was in the dining
room? A. Well, there were the two Esler
girls, Mr. Fisher, Mr. Lucy and Miss Ved-
der; and at the other table I would not
say whether Mr. and Mrs. Mathers were
there or not, but I think they were. And
I think Mr. Kidd and Mr. Hayward, Sr.,
and Mrs. Hood and her daughter, and then
Harry.
Q. Now, you said you were not certain
whether Harry was in the dining room
when you left or not? A. I could not say
positive.
Q. How long do you think you were in
the dinnig room there? A. Oh, I was in
the dining room about 20 or 30 minutes.
Q. You were in the dining room from 20
to 30 minutes, are you sure of that? A. I
should say about that time.
Q. Were all of the rest of the people
that you have named, except Harry, there
when you left the dining room? A. Well,
I could not say positively, Mr. Nye.
Q. Well, do you remember about Fisher?
A. I think Mr. Fisher was there when I
left.
Q. Don't you know Mr. Fisher was go-
ing to an entertainment at the Commercial
Club that night and was only in the din-
ing room four or five minutes, such a mat-
ter? A. No.
Q. Intending to take his dinner at the
banquet? A. No, sir.
Q. Don't you know that? A. Yes, I have
heard it since then, but I did not know it
at that time.
Q. Well, Miss Vedder was there when
you left in the dining room? A. I say I
think she was, Mr. Nye.
Q. Well, is there not a chain of con-
A. Well,



244
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
clusions and a sort of hazy condition of
your mind as to the time and the persons
for the whole afternoon and evening? A.
No, sir; there is not.
Q. Well, if I should ask you one by one
you would swear to no particular one of
those persons you have named being in the
dining room when you left, would you? A.
Well, yes; I think so.
Q. Well, you have given each one that
you think was in the dining room when you
left? A. Well, I have gone over and given
the names of those I thought was there
when I left. -
Q. Well, will you swear any one of those
was there when you left? A. Why, yes,
sir; I will swear some of them were.
Q. When was it Harry called your at-
tention to meeting him at the Ozark; was
that before you got to the Ozark? A. Yes,
sir; that was up on Hennepin avenue.
Q. And did he remind you of it after
that? A. Yes, sir; in the dining room, by
holding up his hands in this way. (Indi-
cating.)
Q. Well, is it not a fact that he did that
as he passed out of the dining room—. A.
No, sir; I saw him after that.
Q. Holding up his fingers in that manner,
meaning 10 o’clock—was it after he came
in 2 A. It was after he had taken his seat
at the table, some three or four minutes.
I know that.
Q. Do you know whether anybody else
observed it? A. I think Miss Vedder no-
ticed it. I have not heard her say she did.
I think the Elser girls would have been
apt to notice it; they were sitting where
they could see him.
Q. Well, did you see him again that
night? A. I did not.
Q. Where did you go that night? A. I
went skating. I went upstairs and got a
cigar and met some of the ladies coming
up, and we discussed the matter a few
- minutes in the hall, and then we went
| skating.
Q. You did not see Harry again that
night? A. I did not.
Q. Where was your room 2 A. On the
main floor, just as you go into the dining
room, to the left.
Did you see him the next morning?
A.. I did.
Q. Where did you go with him that morn-
ing, anywhere? A. Well, I came down to
the Syndicate with him. I went over to
Miss Stiles with him that morning. That
is on the corner of Fourth and Hennepin.
She was a stenographer in Nelson’s.
Q. What did you go to see her for? A.
Well, nothing in particular.
Q. Didn't you go there to tell her not
to say anything about Harry's gambling?
A. I don’t know what Harry told her.
Q. Well, didn’t you? A. I did not, sir.
Harry told her.
At the time he was there? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you hear him tell her that? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then you know that that was said?
A. I know that that was said, but I don’t
know that he was going there to say that
to her, though.
Q: What saloons did you go to that af-
ternoon 2 A. We went to the Zephyr.
Q. Do you know how many times you
-
drank there?
Zephyr.
Q. What did you drink? A. I think the
second time we were there Mr. Hayward
drank a small glass of beer, and the first
time he drank a soft drink, ginger ale. I
drank whisky. -
Q. Both times? A. No, sir; the second
time I took a cigar, I think.
Q. Where did you next go? A. Well,
sir, in Barge's—we were there three times.
In the afternoon? A. In the after-
In OOn.
Q: What did you drink there, whisky?
A. No, sir. I know I drank whisky twice
and I took a cigar once.
Q. Where else? A. At the Midway.
A. Twice, I think, at the
Q. How many drinks did you have in
there? A. I had one in there.
Q. Whisky? A. Yes, sir; think so.
Q. Did Harry drink much of anything
strong? A. No, sir, I think not.
Q. He was “filling you up,” as he told
Adry? A. I don't know. I didn’t get
filled up, though.
Q. How much does it take to fill you up?
A. What is that?
Q. Well, never mind. Where did you next
drink—do you know where you next
drank? A. Well, I said we drank at the
Midway, or rather at Barge's, three times.
and then we came back there from the
Alidway, and then we went up Fourth street,
I think.
Q. Well, you drank in the room there
with these girls? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Which was it, girls or girl? A. Girl.
Q. Did you drink over at the West? A.
No, sir.
Q. Well, it is a pretty hard matter to
tell just how many drinks you took that
afternoon? A. Oh, I can tell pretty
nearly.
Q. Your recollection is? A. I can tell
about in reference to how many drinks I
took.
Q. Now, briefly, I wish you would recall
the words Harry used when he asked you
to go to Miss Ging, if you remember what
they were? A. This was in my room and
he said, “Waterman, I have made Miss
Ging this loan I have been talking to you
about, and I am getting as nervous as the
devil, and I am afraid she is trying to do
me up, and if she does it practically does
me up, as I have only about $75, and she has
everything I have got except that.” And
he showed me these two letters he had got
from Miss Ging and wanted me to read
them, and he said they were rather funny.
And he said something about insurance pol-
icies that gave me the inference that they
were to be assigned to him, but there was
some slip in the proceedings so at that time
he was without any security whatever.
Q. Well, that was entirely a one-sided
conversation? A: I said very little.
Q. Harry ever make any suggestion to
you of any unlawful or criminal act? A.
Well, he used one as an illustration last
summer.
Q. What was that?
Mr. Erwin–Wait a minute. What is the
object–
Mr. Nye-Well, the witness has shown
himself to be very intimately acquainted
with Mr. Hayward, and I want to know if
he has ever made—
Mr. Erwin–Well, go ahead; I don’t care-
Q: What is it? A. Well, last summer





























OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
245
and we separated at the Ozark flats.
arrived at the Ozark flats at a quarter of
with you?
sometime—I should say it was the latter
part of July or the first of August-we were
out in front of the, or rather back of the
Ozark, I think, in the alley between the
two places. I was sitting down on the
veranda, and Mr. Hayward says: “Water-
man, how honest are you, any way?” I
said, “I don’t know, Harry; I suppose I
am about as they run.” “Well, now,” says
he, “as an illustration, what would you do
if somebody should offer you $1,000 to go
down there and burn Bassett's lumber
yard?” “Oh,” I says, “I don't know what I
should do under those circumstances; I
might see how far he would go and turn
him over, or I might get a part of the
thousand and notify Mr. Bassett and let
him go to thunder.” That is the whole of
the conversation, as I remember it.
Q. You have seen Harry gamble some,
have you not? A. Yes, sir; I have seen
him in both places, Minneapolis and St.
Paul.
Q. You know of his getting money from
Miss Ging? A. No, sir; I never saw any
money transaction between them at all.
Q. How often have you seen him gamble?
Mr. Erwin–Well, ain’t there some sort
of a limit to this? I don’t want to object
to this. I want the witness thoroughly ex-
amined, but—
Mr. Nye-Well, that is all.
Mr. Erwin–That is all upon this topic,
Mr. Waterman. I want to recall you again.
R. G. Fisher
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Where did you reside in November
and December last year or the latter part
of November and first of December? A.
No. 6 Thirteenth street south; right back
of the Ozark. -
Q. Are you acquainted with Mr.
ward? A. Yes.
Q. About how long have you known him?
A. About since last June.
Q. Did you know Miss Ging? A. Yes,
- -
Hay-
- | | ||
Q. Are you acquainted with Miss Ved-
der? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you known Miss Ved-
der? A. About the same time. -
Q. Are you acquainted with Mr. Water-
man, the witness last upon the stand? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Now, on Monday, Dec. 3, the day of
the night that Miss Ging was murdered,
you recollect the day Harry and Thomas
A. Waterman came into your store that
afternoon? A. Yes, sir. As near as I can
recollect, it was between 2 and 3, I should
judge, nearly 3 o'clock. They were there
not more than five or six minutes.
Q. When next did you see him? A. Be-
tween a quarter of 6 and 6 that evening,
in the store. They waited there with me
for some time. I left the store with them,
within five minutes of the time it was half
past 6. They had been in the store since
about a quarter of 6; between a quarter of
6 and 6 o'clock; been in there half to three
quarters of an hour. We left the store and
walked up Hennepin on the left hand º
e
7, as near as I can figure. Mr. Hayward
went into the Ozark, and I went to the
boarding house.
Q: Who went into the boarding house
A. Waterman. Upon getting
into the boarding house I went to my
room. I was not in there more than two
or three minutes taking off my coat and
brushing my hair, and then went into the
dining room, I should judge, about 12 min-
utes of 7.
Q. How long did you remain in the din-
ing room? A. About 10 or 12 minutes.
Q. What time did you leave the dining
room then? A. Well, I should judge it
was about 7 o'clock.
Q. Now, I will ask you whether the de-
fendant had come into the dining room
when you left? A. No, sir.
Q. After you left the dining room where
did you go? A. I went upstairs. I should
judge I left my room at a quarter of 8.
Now, while you were in your room,
or at any time after you left the dining
room, did you hear the voice of the de-
fendant anywheres, and if so, where? A.
I heard his voice down in the hall.
Q. What time was that? A. Well, I
would not swear positively as to the time.
But I should judge about 20 minutes after
I left the dining room. -
Q. That would be 20 minutes past 7–7:20?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How are you sure about the time of
leaving the store, Mr. Fisher, that evening?
A. Well, at 20 minutes past 6 I looked at
the-clock and my assistant had not re-
turned from supper, and I was anxious to
get away, and when he did come in I was
engaged with a gentleman selling him a
pipe, so I could not have gotten through
inside of 5 or 10 minutes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Did you know of any appointment
between Waterman and Harry at your
store in the afternoon; did you hear them
make any? A. No, sir.
Q. You saw them together? A. Yes, sir.
Q. They were both very good friends of
yours, both Harry Hayward and Water-
man? A. Nothing more than acquaint-
ances.
Q. They were customers at your cigar
store a great deal? A. Yes, to some ex-
tent.
Q. Well, you feel friendly
Harry, do you not? A. I do.
Has Mr. Waterman been a roommate
of yours? A. No, sir.
Q. How were the boys occupied most of
the time during the time they were in your
store there? A. You mean the first or
second time?
Q. The second time. ? A. Shaking dice.
I don’t remember any one being hilarious.
Q. You remember Waterman breaking
his hat in some scuffle or play there? A.
No, sir; not at that time.
Q. When was it? A. That was earlier.
Q. Earlier in the afternoon? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. He got under headway a little earlier
than I expected he did. Your feeling and
inclination by reason of your friendship to
Harry would lead you to place these mat-
ters of time after you got to the Ozark as
much in his favor as you could, naturally.
These are merly estimates, you did not
look at your watch? A. They are not es-
timates.
Q. I did not understand on your direct
testimony that you consulted your time
when you got to the Ozark? A. That was
not asked me.
towards





OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. Well, did you consult your time? A.
I consulted my time when I got in my
room.
Q. You did? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You said on your direct examination,
as near as you could calculate it was about
a quarter of 7 when you got down? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. That you thought you went into the
dining room about 12 minutes before 7? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And you think you were in the din-
ing room 10 or 12 minutes? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then, after that, you think something
like 20 minutes after, I don’t remember
correctly, you heard Harry's voice in the
hall? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, as to the 20 minutes—you did
not consult your time? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, you are absolutely certain that
you were in the dining room 12 minutes,
are you? A. No.
Q. As a matter of fact, you might not
have been in the dining room 5 or 10 min-
utes? A. No, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
Q. Along the latter part of November to
the first of December, was Mr. Hayward
endeavoring to buy a diamond stud from
you? A. Yes, sir. I gave him a price,
and, to the best of my recollesction, he
had it examined, but I would not swear to
that.
Q. You have given your best recollection
as to the time you were in the dining room
and all other times that evening? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. What time was it you reached your
room after dinner? A. I didn’t look at my
watch after dinner, but it was a quarter
to 7 when I first went in.
Q. What kind of a suit did Harry have?
A. A dark suit. He wore a dark derby
hat.
Ella, M. Vedder
sworn and was examined by Mr. Shu-
maker.
Q. Where did you live in the early part
of December, '94? A. No. 6 Thirteenth
street south. Know Harry Hayward.
Q. Where were you, Miss Vedder, at
about half past 6 on the evening of Dec. 3,
*942 A. I was at Harry Legg's jewelry
store. It was just half past 6 when I went
out of the store. I went from there over
to Hennepin avenue and directly home. I
went directly to my room on the second
floor and got ready for dinner.
Q. About how long, to your best judg-
ment, were you getting ready for dinner?
A. Oh, from five to six minutes; not over
that.
Q. Have you any idea, how long it took
you to walk from the jewelry store home?
A. About 10 minutes.
Q. You went where, after getting ready
for dinner? A. Right down into the dining
room. I met Mr. Fisher and Mr. Water-
man at the foot of the stairs; they were
just coming into the door.
Q. Do you remember Harry Hayward
coming in? A. I do.
Q. About how long were you in the din-
ing room eating your dinner? A.. I sup-
pose from 20 to 25 minutes.
Q. And was it near the time you came
in that Harry came in, or was it near the
time that you went out that he came in 2
A. It was near the time I went out.
Q. He was in the dining room when you
left? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is your best judgment as to the
time you went out of the dining room? A.
I should judge from 5 to 10 minutes after 7.
Q. Did you see Mr. Hayward again that
evening? A. I did not. I went out skat-
ing. Mr. Waterman was in the park.
CROSS-F, -N ATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You don’t think you know what
length of time you were in the dining
room? A. No, sir; not exactly.
Q. Your remembrance would be it might
have been five to ten minutes after 7
that you left? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It might have been earlier? A. It
might, I could not swear to the time ex-
actly.
Q. You could not swear but what it was
as early as 7? A. No, but I don’t think
it was.
Q. Ten minutes walking from the jewelry
store to the Ozark would bring it up to
6:40, and 6 minutes prepairing for dinner,
that would bring it up to 6:46, and that was
about the time you went in 2 A. I think
SO.
Q. In the neighborhood of a quarter to 72
A. Yes, sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Shumaker.
Q. Do they have a 6 o'clock dinner at the
boarding house? A. Half past 6.
Q. An ordinary three course dinner,
soup, meats and desserts? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You took the three courses? A. Yes,
SLI”.
Mr. Erwin–To save the witness being
recalled, I would like to ask her if when
she went out with Mr. Waterman that
evening, he was under the influence of
liquor?
The Witness–Not that I am aware of.
John A. Lucy
was sworn and examined by Mr. Shu-
maker. .
Q. Where did you take your meals in
the early part of December, '94? A. No. 6
Thirteenth street south.
Q. What time did you go home on the
evening of Dec. 3, to your best recollec-
tion? A: I left the office between 5:30 and -
6 o'clock.
Q. At what time did you arrive at the
Ozark? A. Possibly after 6 o'clock, or a
little after.
Q. About what time, to your best judg-
ment, did you go over to the boarding
house? A. From 25 minutes of 7 to a
quarter. I can’t recall who was in the
dining room.
Q. Do you remember seeing the defend-
ant, Harry Hayward, in the dining room
that evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember of seeing him come
in 2 A. No, sir; my seat at the table was
in such a position that I could not see him.
Q. Do you remember whether he was
there in the dining room when you went
out? A. Yes, sir, at from 5 to 10 minutes
past 7.
Q. Did you see him again that evening?
A. No, sir.
CEOSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You are giving simply your best es:
timate as to the time you left the supper
table? A. Yes, sir. I leave my room usu-



















OF THE HAY WATRD MURDER TRIAL. 247
any from 25 minutes of 7 to a quarter of 7
and it takes about 30 minutes:
Q. And you don’t know whether on that
night you left your room at 25 minutes tº
7 or a little later? A. No, sir; it was not
any earlier than 25 minutes to 7, I know
t
Court here took a recess until 2 o’clock
p. m.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 18.
S. W. Goldstone
was sworn and examined by Mr.
maker.
Q. what is your business? A: Clerk for
Mr. Fisher, in the Brunswick cigar store.
Q: What time did you get back to your
work at the cigar store after supper on
the evening of Dec. 3? A. About 20 min-
utes past 6, as near as I can remember.
Harry Hayward and Mr. Waterman were
There. Between 6:30 and 6:35 they went out.
I think they went up Hennepin avenue.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Did you have supper at 6? A: Gener-
ally have supper between 5 and 6. I was
late that evening. -
Q. Do you know what occasioned yºur
being late? A. The only reason of it is be:
cause I was sent out after change, and did
not get back to the store until late. Did
not start out to supper until about half-
past 5.
Shu-
Willis G. Brown
was sworn and examined by Mr.
maker. -
Q: What is your business. A. Clerk in
the St. Louis Railroad Company, and as-
sistant head usher at the Grand Opera.
House. Know the defendant, Harry Hay-
ward, by sight. Was on duty as an usher
at the Grand Opera House on the evening
of Dec. 3. Saw Hayward that evening
about 8:18, just coming in the center door
of the theater. -
Q. Did you see Hayward again during
the evening? A. Yes, just before the cur-
tain went down on the second act, between
9:45 and 10 o'clock. He was sitting in his
seat. Somebody was laughing very loud
and I noticed him turning around.
Q. Did you notice Hayward leaving the
theater during the performance? A. No,
sir.
Shu-
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Do you know whether the performance
had commenced when you saw him come
in? A: I think it had; it is my impression
it was about three minutes after the cur-
tain went up.
Q. The curtain went up at 8:15, did it?
A. It generally does.
Q. It might have been some longer than
that? A. It might have been two or three
minutes afterwards.
Q. That is, it might have been several
minutes; might have been five? A. Possi-
bly, but I don’t think it was.
Maggie Wachtler
was recalled and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Miss Wachtler, you have been exam-
ined as to being in the jail with Mr. Odell
and with Mr. Blixt for the purpose of talk-
ing a statement, and I will now ask you
whether during the time which you testi-
fied, to when you were examined before, at
the time the objection was made to your
testimony, whether Mr. Blixt used these
words, “Adry and I put up the job to kill
Miss Ging for her money; and we agreed
that if we got caught we would put it on
to Harry, because he was always with Miss
Ging. We went out to the lake a week be-
fore the murder, and on the day of the
murder Adry said to me, ‘Be sure and take
the iron with you and go to the same place
as we picked out, and if you have any
trouble Frank will be there to help you.’ ”
And also that he said, “Adry was with me
when I got in the carriage with Miss Ging.”
and after that, after being spoken te by
some person, Mr. Blixt said, “Oh, I forgot,
but you told me to tell the truth.” A.
Nearly all of it is right, but there is one
part in it that I could not testify to. That
1s the part where Adry went up to the
carriage with him; about Adry going out
with him.
Q. Now, will you go on and tell just what
he said in that regard; what Mr. Blixt.
said before you in that regard? A. I com-
menced to take it down in shorthand, and
got a line in my book—“about two weeks
before the murder Adry and I put up the
job to kill Miss Ging for her money, and if
we got caught at it”—about two weeks be-
fore the murder they put up a job to kill
Miss Ging for her money, and if they get
caught to put it onto Harry. And also he
said, on the day of the murder Adry said
to Blixt to be sure to “go to the same spot
picked out, and take the iron with you,
and if you have any trouble Frank will
be there to help you.” But I could not
testify to Adry going with him out in the
carriage. Mr. Blixt gave his testimony so
funny that night that I wrote along and
commenced to write the word “murder”
down, and Odell said: “I don’t want that
put down.” He was asking Blixt ques-
tions, and if Blixt did not answer the way
he wanted him to he cautioned me not to
put it down, and sometimes told Blixt what
to say.
Q. You say that Odell motioned to you
that he did not want that put down when
he got to this point? A. Yes, sir; he seem-
ed very angry with Blixt because he men-
tioned Adry's name, and told him that he
need not say anything about Adry. He
said: “Well, Mr. Odell, you told me to
tell the truth, and I was going to.”
Q. Did Blixt put Adry's name in his
statement after that? A. No, sir, he did
not. Adry's name is not mentioned, not in
my shorthand notes, but in a little slip of
paper. Odell got him to write down on a
little piece of paper about that long, on
the paper, something about Adry—I am
sure of that, quite a little statement.
. How was this statement begun, state
whether it was right out of Mr. Blixt's
mouth or how was it done? A. He would
ask Mr. Blixt questions and then if Mr.
Blixt did not answer just as he wanted to,
he would tell me how to put it down. I
did not take it right down from Mr. Blixt's
mouth all the time. Part of the time he
told me to put down such as he wanted
Blixt to say; and asked him where he was
born, and how old he was, and when he
came to this country and the name of his
wife and children, and when they died and
what was the disease, and where he had
worked, and all such questions as that.




248 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Now, when did you first tell, and who
did you first tell of this statement made
by Blixt to the effect that Adry and he,
Blixt, put up the job to kill Miss Ging? A.
I told Mr. Odell. I said: “What an abom-
nable liar Blixt is,” and he said: “Shut
your mouth,” and I was quiet for a Jong
time; and after I read the statement and
heard what people said, I did not think it
was my duty to keep my mouth shut. I
went to a friend and asked him what I
should do. He told me it was my duty to
–the first time I went to see this friend
I did not tell him—I told him it was wor-
rying me—and I thought I ought to say
something, because the time would come
when I would be sorry I did not tell it. He
said it was my duty to go to the attorneys
for the defense and tell what I knew. I
told him I did not want to because I did
not know the men, never had heard of
Mr. Shumaker then; heard your name (re-
ferring to Mr. Erwin), but never heard of
Shumaker. He wanted to know if I would
give my consent if he should go and tell
you or Mr. Smith. I said yes. This gen-
tleman was Mr. McMahon.
Q. Now, after that did Mr. McMahon
bring you to see me? A. Yes, he did.
Q. Now, have I ever had any talk with
you since that time? A. No, sir, only the
day that I was up here; that is the only
time I ever saw you in my life.
Q. Did you ever talk with Mr. Smith at
all? A. I never spoke a word to him in
my life.
Q. Did you ever talk to Mr. Shumaker?
A. I have talked to him some. He brought
me up to the court house.
Q. Has there been any attempt to in-
timidate you by anybody since you were
here as a witness? A. Yes; everything
you can think of. Odell came up to see
me. I saw him three times, but he didn't
see me. He was on the elevator, but I
saw him and so I skipped down the stairs,
and afterwards somebody told my sister
he had two policemen after me.
That is the first I knew anything about it;
then I concluded I was not going to stand
it, and I thought I would go and stay with
a friend of mine, and went over to the Dun-
bar House, and went and asked Mrs.
Brewer, and she said I could stay there as
long as I wanted to, and I stayed there
one night, but changed the room—I got a
terrible cold. Last Saturday I had an in-
terview with Mr. Hall. He came to my
room, and my sister was there and said
that I could not answer to it, and then he
asked a second time, and she said I could
not, and then the third time; and finally
he said, “I am Mr. Hall, attorney for the
state.” She said, “What do you want?”
He said, “I want to see Miss Wachtler.”
She said, “You cannot see Miss Wachtler.”
My sister told me this. I was down in the
bathroom.
Q. What talk did you have with Mr.
Hall? A. Hall–after I was here at the
court house he came to me. He wanted to
know if he could not have an interview
with me. I said “Well.” I did not go
home that night until quite late, went to
the Dunbar, and I went home and just as
I got to the elevator, Hall had been in the
parlor and came down stairs, and so we
went to the parlor, and he commenced
first very pleasant, flattering me, and he
soft-soaped it, and I could see in a minute
what he was after. He told me that the
gentleman whom I did work for had
spoken of me in the highest terms, and
spoke of a lady who had spoken in the
highest terms of me. Then he said, “Now,
there is just one question that he would tell
me and be honest to me, and that he did
not have anything to do with Odell, but
said, I am intimate with Nye; I don't have
anything to do with Odell; you tell me
confidentially, you can trust me.” I said,
“I would not trust you any more than any
other man.” He said, “I want you to an-
swer me one question.” I said, “What is
it?” He said, “What are you going to
testify to when you go on the stand?” I
said, “I won't tell you.” He tried to scare
me, and told me if I went on the stand
there was no business man that would
employ me, that I would never have any
business in Minneapolis. It is not so, for
I have a good position now. I asked him
a question or two—I said, “Suppose I have
been to Harry's attorneys and told them
things that I knew was the truth, if I
changed my mind now, and do not want to
testify.” He said, “No, never,” and
jumped out of his chair, and I said, “Sup-
pose I don't want to go on the stand,
where can I go?” He said, “You won't
have to go any further than St. Paul.” I
knew these things he said were not true.
I knew if I went to Europe he could get
me back again. Then next he said, to try
and scare me, he tried the state's prison
racket; and then commenced on my char-
acter. That was the worst of all. I would
not stand that, I asked him if he could
prove anything against me. He said he
could bring charges against my character.
If he had shot me with a pistol I could
have stood it better than that; a man so
base that he could stand up and try to
force me and scare me. Then he said,
“Why didn’t I come to the state, it was my
place to come to the state, if I knew any-
thing, and I said it was my duty to go to
the attorneys for the defense, and that is
where I went. Then the story came out in
the newspapers.
Q. Never mind that. Did you tell Hall
you would give the statement in the pres-
ence of any one? A. Yes, I told him that
if he wanted to talk to me in the pres-
ence of Erwin or Shumaker I will do it
freely. He said: “I don’t know where to
find them.” He did not want to find them.
Q. You may state whether you were ad-
vised not to talk to any one, newspaper re-
porter or other person, after you were put
on the witness stand, except in the pres-
ence of the attorneys, one of the attor-
neys. A. Yes, sir, I was advised not to.
Q. To notify all parties that you were
willing to talk in the presence of any one
of the atorneys? A. Yes, sir, that is what
I was told. Mr. Hall accused me of fixing
my short hand notes over. He said the
night he went to see me, “Can't I copy the
statement?” I wish I had now. I might
have made some money; had a chance to
And he said that Mr. Erwin had offered to
buy that statement. He never did. He
also said, “If you are getting any money
for doing this you better get plenty of it.
you will need it,” he says, “Mr. Erwin has
got the stuff.”
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye. -
Q you have missed a golden opportunity






































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
249
-
then, I understand-you wish you had made
the money? A. Yes, sir; I thought I might
just as well.
Q. You have had lots of trouble lately
with Mr. Odell? A: I don't know whether
you would call it lots of trouble. I had
some trouble getting my pay.
Q. You had a row about collections? A.
Yes; my brother gave me an account to
collect–$75 or $80.
Q. We will try and give you lots of lati-
tude—tell me exactly whether you had a
row with him or not? A. I did not have a
row with him. I told him that he did not
have any business to take $40 of me for col-
lecting $80.
Q. You claim you had made $80? A. Yes;
I counted on $40 on salary, and I thought he
ought to pay me $20 more on the collection.
Q. You said if he did not pay you would
make him trouble in a way that he did
not think of 2 A. No, sir; I did not say
that in those words. I remonstrated with
him about taking $40 out of me. He said:
*You get another place to work; you get
out of my office as soon as you are a mind
to,” I said: “Mr. Odell, I will settle with
you for just $100.” He said: “What is that
for?” I said: “You owe me $40 now, and
ought to pay me $20 on William's account,
and there is back pay enough to make up
the $100.” He said: “You go to the devil;
you won't get a cent.” I said: “It is im-
material; if you don’t pay me you will be
sorry. I have been to an attorney and he
said I could get an order of court to make
you pay it.” That was after he told me I
would not get a cent. He came over with
the paper and asked if I did not want to
read it. He said: “I am going to bring a
bill against the county for $500, and I will
have the money and enough to discharge
my account.” I said: “I want to get my
pay.” He said: “I want you to stay here.
I am going to bring in a bill for $500 and
then I will pay you.”
Q. How long did you work for Odell?
A. I guess about four years. This last
time a little over a year.
Q. You used to work for Odell & Mc-
Mahon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. They dissolved? A. Yes. -
Q. Mr. McMahon has been a special
friend of yours? A. He has always been
a good friend to me.
Q. Were you ever in the jail with Blixt
but once? A. Twice.
Q. Once, the day before Christmas? A.
The day before a holiday; I think it was
Christmas.
Q. Christmas was a holiday, and New
Years a holiday—which was it? A. I won't
testify; I guess it was the day before
Christmas. Then I said he went there the
day after to finish.
Q. It was the first day that this con-
Versation occurred between Blixt and the
lawyer, was it? A. I don’t know whether
it was or not.
Q. Was it before you started to take
down your shorthand notes? A. No, sir, I
got down a line—“about two weeks before
the murder—”
Q. When was the first of his declara-
ºns to his attorney? A. Mr. Odell said:
Now, Mr. Blixt, come on and tell the
truth,” something like that.
Q. Odell said that first, then Blixt start-
º in to make the statement? A. He said.
about two weeks before the murder,” and
then went on and told—
Q. That you have related? A. Yes.
Q: What was the very first of the
declaration that you were going to take
down? A. When Blixt goes on to tell?
Q. Yes. A. I have got one line, part of
a line, in the shorthand book.
Q. Do you understand the question—when
you first commenced you were there as a
stenographer to take down his statement?
When I first went there the first day?
Q. Yes. A. No, sir, there was nothing
said about that. He said: “Take down
the statement of Claus A. Blixt,” and then
he asked him where he was born, and how
old he was, and when he came to this
country.
Whereabouts in that interview was
it? A. I should say by the look of the book
it is about the middle. -
Q. About the middle of the interview?
A. Yes.
Q. What has he stated before he comes
to that? A. Everything; a good many
things.
Q. Turn to your notes and tell me what
the next thing before that was. A. I.
marked it with a star so I can find it.
(Witness indicates page in book.)
Mr. Nye-Now, let the reporter mark the
book as an exhibit and also the page.
The book was here marked Ex. D-2; also
page marked the same. *
Q. Now, just give us two or three para-
graphs just before that.
Mr. Erwin–We object to the paragraph
before that, that it is immaterial, irrelevant
and incompetent, and has been ruled out by
the court.
The Court—They have not been on this
examination ruled out.
Mr. Erwin–They are statements that the
court ruled out as evidence.
The Court—When?
Mr. Erwin–When Blixt testified.
The Court—I don’t know what it is.
Mr. Erwin–It is a statement of an im-
material matter.
The Court—This is cross-examination. The
objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial, ir-
relevant and not cross-examination, and as
containing the statements of the witness
Blixt upon a separate and distinct criminal
transaction.
The Court—I don’t know as it is. It may
be a qualification of what she has to stified
to.
Mr. Erwin–I will make my objection.
The Court—I don't want you to state
there what does not appear to the court.
Mr. Erwin–That the court may be satis-
fied what it is before it goes to the jury, I
will now tell your honor what it is.
The Court–Do you know?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir, I understand it from
counsel.
The Court–Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
The Witness (reading)—"Then I felt as if
I wanted to be with Harry all the while.”
That was when Mr. Odell was trying to
get Mr. Blixt—
Q. You need not state your own thoughts.
A. “Then I felt as if I wanted to be with
Harry all the while.” That is all there
is before it.
Q. Then commence back three or four
pages further.
Same objection. Same ruling. Exception.



250 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
A. It is about setting the barn on fire.
Q. Give us about the barn. A. I cannot
give you all about the barn.
Q. You can read your notes, can't you—
that is what I want you to do? A. I don’t
know whether I can now or not.
Q. Read about the barn there.
Mr. Erwin–It is about a barn burning
that your honor has ruled out.
Mr. Nye-Go on.
A. I don't know just where it is. There
is quite a long story about the barn.
Can you read you own notes?
The Court—We want to see some connec-
tion in this.
Mr. Nye-I don’t want you to start in
there; I want you to go back and read
enough so that we can see the connection.
A. I will commence at the first if you want
me to.
Q. Take it further down; take it the
time you went to the Ozark. Can you find
that? A. Yes, if I have time.
The Court—I think you had better com-
mence at the end of the barn business.
Mr. Nye-Find that barn business.
Mr. Erwin–Take all the time that you
desire.
The Witness—Where do they want me to
commence? To find where Blixt first went
to the Ozark to live?
Mr. Erwin–They want you to commence
at the end of the barn business and give
what is in your notes? A. Oh, is that so?
Right after this where I commenced–
“about two weeks after the murder.”
Mr. Nye-It is not after that; I want the
substance of what precedes that to show
the connection in which it is used. I ask
the witness to go further. The purpose is
to show the probability as testing the ve-
racity of the witness.
The Court—This not having been put into
the book, she not having taken shorthand
notes of what he said, and relying upon
her memory in reference to it, I think it is
proper to show the connection.
Mr. Nye-I ask that you commence back
at your notes at the time that he went to
the Ozark. A. I will find that.
Mr. Erwin–I object to his statement
going in here made up in this manner, to
go in as evidence.
Mr. Nye—I ask it to go in as evidence of
the fact of the connection, the probability
of his injecting a statement of that kind in
the middle of a statement.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to ask her a
question.
Q. Miss Wachtler,
you read the notes very lately?
a little bit of it.
Q. Is there anything about Miss Ging or
murder before that? A. I don’t think so.
Mr. Nye-I ask to have it read to show
the relationship between him and Harry.
Mr. Erwin–I think the court might have
it read to him to see whether it is proper,
but I don’t think it should go to the jury.
The Court—Has this been copied? A. I
copied it on the typewriter.
The Court–Have you the transcript here?
Mr. Nye-Mr. Odell has not got it here.
We have sent for it.
The Court—I can’t tell very well without
reading this over, to see if it is proper or
not.
Mr. Erwin–It is certainly prejudicial.
The Court—I will only allow enough of it
in your book, have
A. Just
to be read to the jury to show the connec-
tion, to show whether there was any con-
nection between what he has testified to
as she said there, what she did take down
and what she did not take down.
Mr. Erwin–I will submit that the jury
retire, and that she read the statement to
the court down to that point, if that will
be satisfactory. Then the jury won't be
prejudiced by what is contained in the
statement, and your honor can decide.
The Court—The sheriff will take the jury
in another room. Now the witness can
step up here. .
(The witness went up to the court, to-
gether with the attorneys, and read pri-
vately to the court different parts of the
statement.)
Q. Now, Miss Wachtler, you have read
to the court and your attorneys, the best
you could, from your notes, all of Mr.
Blixt's statement down to the point marked
by the reporter where you say these words
asked by Mr. Erwin were said. Now, that
related, without asking you specifically, it
related to Harry's suggestions and propo-
sitions to Blixt, didn’t it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Several different propositions, did it
not? And the last one was the burning of
the barn, which you started to read here
once? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then you came to this point where
you say Blixt used the words which Mr.
Erwin asked you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. From that time on to the end of your
whole note book or statement, it all re-
lated, did it not, to Blixt's connection with
Harry? A. Yes, sir, entirely.
Q. Adry's name is not mentioned from
that time on 2 A. I don’t think so.
Q. Now, read just the words that you
have swore that he used. A. (Reading
from book), “About two weeks before the
murder.”
Q. That is all you put down? A. Yes,
sir, crossed out, and I commenced on the
next line.
Q So that which you erased there,
“About two weeks before the murder,” is
on the top line, is it not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Entirely on the top line? A. Yes,
sir; that is where I wrote it all through my
book, if you will notice.
Q. Never mind, answer my question.
You say you did write it all through your
book that way? A. Yes, sir, I think I
did. I won’t say positive.
Q. You turn and write backward on some
of the other pages sometimes? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you commence on the top line
there of that page? (referring to witness
shorthand book.) A. Well, Mr. Odell had
told me not to put anything in this book
but Mr. Blixt's statement—this is not Mr.
Blixt's statement at all, this is some other
work I done for some other party.
Q. I am asking you about your writing.
A. Well, I know, but this is work I done
for another man—I know it is.
Q. Well, you don't always put it on the
top of the line, do you? I just show you
where you dropped a line on that page.
A. I know I did, but I am just telling you
that that wasn't in Blixt's statement.
That was in somebody else's work. You
didn't show me where I did it in Mr.
Blixt's statement.
Q. well, I mean it is your habit to do




















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
251.
that? A. No, sir, it is not my habit; if a.
line is too near the top, why, I don't write
on it; if it is, why, drop down the next
line. There is some work in that book that
was done for other men.
Q. Well, if you will confine yourself to
answering my questions we will get along
a little better. I have lost the place now
and I will ask you to turn to it again, if
you please? A. (Witness finds place in her
shorthand book referred to by counsel.)
Q: What is that star for? A. I marked
it there because I knew you would call
my attention to it today.
Mr. Nye-I want to call the attention of
the jury to the fact that the words which
she started to write are on the top line.
The Court—What follows that?
Mr. Nye-You may read a few lines of
what follows that.
(Witness reads.)
Q. I show you exhibit “E-2,” and I ask
you if that is your typewriting? (Witness
shown papers). Examine it and tell me
whether or not that is not a transcript of
the statement which you made for Mr.
Odell? A. Yes, sir.
Do you want the court and jury to
understand that your conscience has trou-
bled you about this affair until you had
to disclose it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was the day before Christmas?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That you took that statement and you
remained in the employ of Mr. Odell until
the 9th day of February, which was a
month and a half– A. I went away last
Wednesday.
Q. Well, last Wednesday, it was later
than the 9th–Saturday, the 9th, was the
day you had the first conversation with
Mr. Odell and you remained up until the
12th until after you had the trouble, some-
thing over a month and a half—this broke
out on you after you had the trouble with
Mr. Odell, didn’t it? A. No, sir.
Q. How long before had you told Mr.
McMahon? A. I told him the last of the
Week.
Q: What were the words that Blixt used?
A. When he commenced to tell that?
Q. Yes. A. He said something about two
weeks before the murder.
Q. I want you to give me the words? A.
"About two weeks before the murder,
Adry and I put up a job to kill Miss Ging
for her money, and we agreed if we got
caught to lay it onto Harry because Harry
always went with Miss Ging.”
Q. Is that all? A. No, he said: “On the
day of the murder,” he said to Blixt, “to
take the iron along and if you get into any
trouble Frank would be there to help you.”
Q. Did he say who Frank was 2 A. Ne,
sir, he did not.
Q. Is that all he said? A. That is all
that I remember of.
9. This is the question that is asked you,
Adry and I put up the job to kill Miss
Ging for her money and we agreed if we
$ot caught we would put it onto Harry,
because he was always with Miss Ging;
We went out to the lake a week before the
murder, and on the day of the murder Adry
said to me, “Be sure and take the iron with
You and go to the same place we picked
ºut, and if you have any trouble Frank
will be there to help you.’ ” That didn't
say two weeks before the murder they put
up the job? A. Well, it is just as I have
got it in my shorthand book.
Q. Have you got it in your shorthand
book, “Just about two weeks before the
murder?” A. Yes, sir, I have got a fig-
ure “2” there.
The Court—That is on the top line?
Mr. Nye-Yes, sir, on the top line at the
top of the page.
Q. Do you know John A. Olson—the Ol-
son that has been in Mr. Odell’s office? A.
Yes, sir, I know him.
Q. Did you have a talk with him on
Saturday, the 9th of February? A. Why,
he was there in the office pretty nearly all
the time, nearly every day, after Mr. Odell
commenced on this trial, I think.
Q. Did you have a talk with him about 2
o'clock in the afternoon of the 9th of
February in Mr. Odell’s office? A. Did I
have a talk with him?
Q. Yes. A. Well, perhaps I did—I pre-
sume likely if he was there I did; I talked
with him every day while he was there.
Q. While he sat there reading did you
say to him, “I am so mad at that Odell;
he has cheated me out of $40. I let him
have a collection of $80, and he has kept
half of it; I was just talking with him
about it in the other room, and he said I
had agreed to give him half if he collected
it, but I never promised any such thing.
Now, what can I do? Can’t I sue him and
make him give it back to me? I can’t
afford to lose all that money, and besides
he owes me for two months’ work. Do
you think it is right for him to treat me
that way?” Did you ask Mr. Olson that
in substance? A. Yes, sir, something in
substance.
Q. And did he not say in reply to that,
“No, I don’t think that is right, if it is as
you say, and of course you can sue him.
if you want to. If it will do you any good
or not, I don’t know.” Did he make that
reply to you in substance? A. Yes, some-
thing like that, I believe. I don’t remem-
ber his exact words, though.
Q. And then did you not say to him, “I
came very near being run over and killed
by a runaway horse, going to lunch; I was
going up Nicollet avenue, and I heard some
men hollering, and all at once a man fell
down right by the side of me, and I took a
jump to one side right at the entrance of a
store and the horse skipped right by me,
only a few inches from me, and run over
the man's legs, but I don’t think it hurt
him very much. It was a very close call,
and I never got such a scare in my life,
and then that d-d Odell treated me that
way, it makes me awfully excited—” A.
No, sir, I never used any such profane
words like that.
Q. Do you mean to say that you never
use profane language? A. I don't say I
never did, but I say I did not on that
occasion, on the occasion you are referring
to, my conversation with Mr. Olson; never
said anything of the kind in the world.
Q. Well, you were pretty badly excited,
and if you ever do use any profane lan-
guage you used it at that time? A. No,
sir; I never used any at that time, I know
I didn't.
Q. And did not Mr. Olson reply, “Well,
I should say that you had a close call, you
might have got killed, but you were very
lucky in not getting hurt at all.” Did

















252
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
he say that? A. Well, we talked about it
quite a while there.
Q. And did you not ask him what attor-
neys usually charge for collections, and
he said they generally charge 10 per cent?
A. I don't think I asked him that, be-
cause I know myself what they charge.
Q. Well, some conversation followed in
regard to the per cent they charge, and
then you went out and was gone a little,
and then came back, and when you came .
back did you say, “By gum, I did see an
attorney about that—the firm down stairs,
and they told me the same as you did, 10
per cent for collecting without a suit,”
Did you say that? A. I did not say “By
gunn.’’
Q. “And they also told me I could have
him disbarred for keeping the money?” A.
No, sir; I did not say “by gum.” I went
and asked the attorneys down stairs what
I could do to make Odell pay me back the
money which he had taken from me
and they said give me an answer the next
day, but he did not have any right to take
it away from me. -
Q. Well, I will pass over some of this
conversation to the following Monday,
which was the 11th, about 1:30 p. m. Did
you see Mr. Olson in Odell's office at that
time? A. I don’t remember. Maybe I did.
I saw him if he was there.
Q. Did you not see him, and did you not
come into the office and say—first, did
he not ask you, “How did you come out
with Odell?” and did you not say—? A.
I don’t remember that he did ask me the
question.
Q. And did you not say to him then and
there, “Oh, my, he was awful mad, and
he told me this morning to leave the office,
and he told my sister Saturday never to
come to his office again?” A. He never
told me to leave his office until Saturday.
Q. Did you say that to Olson? A. Pos-
sibly I did. I don’t remember whether I did
or not, but possibly I did say that to him,
if he was there.
Q. Did you have a conversation with
him on Tuesday, about 2 o'clock? A. I
presume I did, if he was there.
Q. Did you not say to him, “Say, Mr.
Olson, I want to ask you a question, but
don’t you tell Odell about it. If a person
is called on the stand to testify, do they
have to tell all they know and answer
every question?” Did you so ask Mr. Ol-
son? A. Yes, sir; I asked him that.
And did he not say, “You will have
to tell the truth about whatever they ask
you, if you do otherwise you will perjure
yourself. Sometimes the attorneys object
to some questions, and if the court sus-
tains the objection, then you do not have
to answer?” A. No; he ºid not say any-
thing about the court.
Q. Did you say, “I am afraid if I am
called on the stand I would get so rattled
I wouldn’t know what to say?” A. No,
sir; I never said that.
Q. And didn't he reply, “Then probably
you wouldn't remember what to say: when
people get rattled on the stand, they gen-
erally don't remember. I know if I should
get rattled I could not remember much.”
Did he so state?
Mr. Erwin–This is immaterial,
honor, and I object to it.
The Court—I don’t see what it is for.
your
Mr. Smith–Then it is objected to as im-
material.
Mr. Nye-It is just preliminary to the
questions which I am going to ask.
Q. Did he say further, “Why do you
think you will be called to testify in the
murder case?” A. There was nothing said
about being rattled.
Did you not say, “Yes,’’ you expected
to be called in the murder case? A. No, I
did not say anything about it.
Q. Did you not say, “They have been
speaking to me about it,” words to that
effect? A. No, sir.
Q. And did he not ask you, “Who has
been speaking to you about it,” and did
you not reply, “I won't tell you?” A. No.
S11”. -
Q. And did you not say, “I am afraid of
you, because I know you are a detective?”
A. No, sir, I never said any such thing; I
ain’t afraid of him.
Q. Didn’t he say, “It won’t be hard for
you to testify, as you have a statement
to go by?” A. I did not say anything
about it, no, sir.
Q. Do you remember after this conversa-
tion that you had gone to the typewriter
and commenced on the machine, and that
Olson put on his overcoat and said, “Well,
I guess I will go out and rustle a little
while and try and make a dollar; these
hard times pretty nearly disgust me with
everything; I ain’t made any money for a
long time.” Did he say that? A. He said
something about going out and making
money; something of that kind.
Q. And you said, “I know how you can
make some money; go and tell Erwin that
you know something about Blixt and he
will probably give you some money.” A. I.
never said anything of the kind.
Q. Will you swear you didn't.” A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did he not then say, “Yes, but I don't
know anything about the case, and I would
not go and tell him a lie about it?” A. No,
sir, he didn’t say that.
Q. And didn't he say further, “I don't
want to make money that way? A. No.
sir, nothing was said about that at all.
Q. Did you say to him at that time,
“What do they do with persons who per-
jure themselves?” A. Never said a word
about perjury.
Q. And didn't he reply, “They send them
to the state's prison?” A. No, sir, there
was not a word said about it, because We
had not talked about anything that would
lead to it.
Q. Didn't you tell him he could make
money by going to the defense; that he
could make a thousand dollars? A. No.
sir, I never did.
Q. You swear to that positively? A: Yes,
sir not a word of that kind was said, only
what I testify to.
Q. Do you mean to swear before this
jury that Mr. Hall attacked your charac-
ter? A. Yes, indeed, I do.
Q. Was anyone present during that con-
versation? A: No sir, not as I know of
unless he had some one hid back in the
alcove.
Q. Isn't it a fact that he was courteous
to you? A. He was at first until he found
out he could not cod me, to make me tell
º, ºn aſ he wanted me to, and when
told him it was Adry that ought to be
hung, he commenced and attacked me in
every shape and manner.





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
253
The Court–Did I understand you to say
that Adry's name was not used at all in
ºne record you have got there? A: No,
sir, I guess not. It was used in the state-
ment one place where he had me copy from
a little slip he brought down from the
court house.
Q. The truth is, is it not, Mr. Odell sat
down there and you sat down there with
your note book and pencil, and Mr. Blixt
told all this in narrative form, didn't he?
A. No, Mr. Odell asked him questions
Q. well, your note book is in a narrative
form. A. I don't care how it is; Mr. Odell
would ask him a question and he would go
on and answer. Mr. Odell told me not to
put any questions down, just to put his
answers, and I wrote it just as he told me
Q. This is a correct transcript of your
note book, Exhibit E2 A. Just as I wrote
it, but there was no questions.
Q. You did not remodel it at all, you
took it to Mr. Odell? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He did not remodel it? A. Oh, my
goodness, yes, sir; let me show you some
places-
Q. Didn't you take it from your note
book? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did he remodel it? A: About
where Harry tried to hypnotize Blixt, and
where Blixt said, “Then I felt as if I want-
ed to be with Harry all the time.”
Q. Is the word “hypnotize” in this state-
ment? A. No, sir, but he said, I felt as
if I wanted to be with Harry all the time.”
Q. This is a transcript of your note book?
A. Yes, sir, as good as I could write it.
Q. All in narrative form? A. Yes, sir;
but he kept asking questions, and when-
ever Blixt would say anything he didn't
want put down, he would shake his head
at me.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q: What was the immediate disagree-
ment, if any, between you and Mr. Ordell?
A. Why, he would not pay me what he
owed me—but that has nothing to do with
this case.
Q. Has that got anything to do with your
being on the stand as a witness? A. No,
sir.
Q: What was this collection he made for
you, what was the amount of it? A. It
was about $74 or $75 and interest.
Q. How much fees did you charge for it?
Mr. Nye. I object to that.
Mr. Erwin. I want to show what this
trouble was about and how she came to go
to the attorneys.
The Court. Well, answer it, they have
got it all in anyhow.
Q. How much did he charge for that col-
lection? A. Forty dollars.
Q. Now, did he credit you with $40 on
the salary which he owed you, or did he
keep the money? A. No, sir, he did not
give me credit of my back salary at all;
he kept the money.
Q. He didn't credit you up with the
money, but he took it? A. Yes, sir, and
that is the reason he wanted to turn me
out of his office, because I asked him for
it and he said he would not pay me any-
thing.
Q. Now, as I understand this statement,
the statement which you hold in your hand
there which I will call the stenographic
note book, that was made up by you sit-
ting down at a table and Mr. Blixt being
asked questions by Mr. Odell and upon the
answer being given, if Odell didn't want
it down he would motion his head to you
not to take it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But if he did want the answer in,
you took down the answer in a narrative
form 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then, during the taking of the state-
ment, after Mr. Blixt had been questioned
as to his family, his residence and the
things that lay about his own life, and
then upon his acquaintance with Hayward,
and where suggestions had been made to
him, what then did Odell say to him about
this murder? A. He said: “Go on and
tell me the truth about the murder.”
Q. Well, in answer to that question what
did Blixt say? A. He commenced about
two weeks before the murder.
... And then what did Odell say? A.
“Don’t take that down, I don’t want that
down.”
Mr. Nye. Is this re-direct?
The Court. It seems to me that she has
gone over this once; she has told just
where she went in and the connection.
Q. That question being answered, did he
make a motion to you with his head? A.
Yes, sir, of course, though it had been writ-
ten in my note book—just as I have got it
in my shorthand book.
Q. After you had stopped, did Blixt and
Odell have a long and continued conversa-
tion? A. Yes, sir, quite, yes.
Q. And when was it that he told you to
go on in the next statement? A. Why, to
connect it right along with the other.
Q. And the rest of the statement was
made up in the same way as you have tes-
tified to here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was not Blixt's narrative, but it
was that portion of Blixt's affidavit which
Odell wanted down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, now, after that did Mr. Odell
bring to you and did you put in your note
book other statements of Blixt? A. Yes,
sir, but it was not put in my shorthand
book.
Q. What were they in 2 A. They were
written on paper, I copied them in.
Q. Did that occur a good many times?
A. Yes, sir, they are pasted in the back of
the statement three or four times.
Q. Then, from all of these statements you
codified the printed statement in the nar-
rative form 2 A. No; the first of that I
took from my shorthand book, but the last
page is what Mr. Odell had me copy from
statements he got at the court house from
Mr. and Mrs. Blixt.
Q. Did you make this statement to Mr.
McMahon influenced any way by any dif-
ficulty, any settlement or any payment you
had had with Mr. Odell? A. No, sir.
Mr. Nye—This is objected to as immate-
rial, incompetent and not re-direct.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Nye–I move that her answer be
stricken out.
The Court—It is stricken out.
Q. Who is Olson? A. Why, he is a
Swede—he is the detective for the city—I
guess.
Q. Has he got an office with Mr. Odell?
A. I don’t know—he is hanging around
there all the time.
Q. Now, did you have any talk with Mr.



254
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Olson a week ago last Saturday in relation
to Mr. Odell owing you any money? A.
Yes, sir, I talked with him about it. He said
that lately Mr. Odell had been acting aw-
fully strange; and he says, “What makes
Odell so cross to you?” And I said, “I don’t
know.” And Mr. Olson had noticed it him-
self and asked me what made him so cross
to me.
Q. What else was in that conversation?
A. I noticed Mr. Olson said, “If any of the
outside parties, any of the Erwin parties,
come to you and ask you anything about
this, you must tell it to L., right off.” I
told him. I wouldn’t tell it to him if I didn’t
Want to.
Q. Did you ever say anything to him
about he could make some money if he
went to Erwin; that Erwin had plenty of
money? A. No, sir, I never said so.
Q. Have you ever said anything of that
kind to anybody, or had any such thought,
that money could be made by coming to
me; that I had plenty of money in this
case? A. No, sir, I never have.
Q Well, has anybody promised to give
you any money to testify here? A. No,
sir, not a cent. All the pay I have got is
abuse from the state, Mr. Hall.
RE-CEROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. I will ask you if you stated to Mrs.
Barland that they had tried to get you
to testify for the defense? A. No, sir.
Q. And didn't you tell Mrs. Barland you
did not know anything about it? A. No,
sir.
Q. Didn’t you also state to her that you
had already been offered $100 for that
statement? A. No, sir. I met her on the
street one day, and in a laughing way I
said to her, “Wouldn’t it be a joke on Odell
if I should get a chance to sell that state-
ment.” Mr. Odell said he was offered $100
for it, and I just said to her in a laughing
manner what I have stated. If she says I
said anything about Mr. Erwin it is not so.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You say that Mr. Odell had been of-
fered $100 for that statement? A. Mr.
Odell told me so. He came in one day and
he said, “Do you want to make $5?” I
said, “Why, yes; how 7” “Copying the
statement.” And I says, “Who is going to
give me the $5 if I copy it?” And he said,
“I will pay you the $5.” So I pitched in on
it right away; I thought I was going to get
the $5—and I pitched right in to copying it,
and I had 16 pages copied, and he came
back, he had just been to lunch, and he
came back and he said, “Put that away, I
can go on without it,” and I said, “Why?”
And he said, “No matter.” And he went
and took it and put it in the safe.
And he told you that he had been of-
fered $100 for it? A. Yes, sir.
E is rury G. Gºosman
Recalled and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q: What do you hold in your hand? A.
Livery register. A record of livery rigs-
carriages ordered.
Mr. Erwin–I do this to show that this
ride was on Tuesday night, Nov. 27, and
not on Wednesday. What is the record?
A. “Miss King, Lucy, 26 buggy, left at
8:20 and returned at 9:15. Paid $1.”
Q. She paid it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was booked as “King?”
sir.
Q. You made the entry yourself? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Look at your register for Wednesday,
the 28th. Did Miss Ging have any rig out
that day? A. (After referring to book.)
No, sir.
Q. And she was not out on Wednesday?
A. Not to my knowledge, no, sir.
Q. What time was it she took the black
horse out? A. The bay mare, Saturday
night. (Referring to book.) “December
1st, Miss King, Kit, 27 buggy, returned at
9 o'clock, paid $1.50.”
Q. Did you book all of these entries?
A. Yes, sir. -
Mr. Erwin–I offer it in evidence.
Mr. Nye—No objection.
Mr. Nye-You booked them all at the
time they occurred? A. No, I booked them
; the evening after I returned to the sta-
e.
Q. On the 3d Miss Ging took buggy 27–
it is marked here 7 o'clock? A. Yes, sir;
that is the time it was ordered.
Q. And $2 charged? A. Yes,
still charged.
What is this nine in here for, when
the horse came in? A. Yes, sir, that is
When the horse came in.
Q. Did you have a talk with her about
this black mare, Kit? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did she say to you and when?
A. Monday afternoon when she ordered
Lucy, she said, “I want Lucy this evening,
Kit pulled me so Saturday night that my
arms are all sore.”
Q. And did she show you her arms? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Now, this is the night we are
accused of being driving with ourselves.
Q. Kit was the Saturday night mare?
A. Kit was the Saturday night mare, yes.
Q. How did the name happen to be Miss
King? A. Well, when I was introduced to
her it was on Hennepin avenue in the
evening and the cars were going by and I
mistoek her name for “King.”
Q. Now, in relation to the buggy which
Miss Ging had out on the night of the
murder, I want you to state to the jury
whether that was an easy or hard riding
buggy. A. Very hard.
Q. When did you last notice before the
murder it was a hard riding buggy? A.
In delivering it that evening.
Q. Just give you experience that evening.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial.
Mr. Erwin–Why, Mr. Blixt stated it was
a very easy buggy to ride in, and after
the woman was killed he rode along in it
very easy. I want to show it was a very
hard riding buggy and he never was in
the buggy.
The Court—Well, he may answer.
Q. Just give your experience about that
being a hard riding buggy. A. Why,
was riding down Hennepin in it that even-
ing and the streets were quite rough, and
I was quite angry when I got to the hotel,
riding in the buggy, having been thrown
around considerable. I called it a rather
hard riding buggy.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. How long have you had that buggy?
A. I should judge about two years.
Q. You let it out frequently? A. Yes.
sir.
A. Yes,
sir; and




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
255
Q. You use it constantly 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You never had any complaint about
it? A. No, sir.
Q. You wouldn't keep it if it was a hard
riding buggy, would you?—are those bug-
gies ordinarily easy riding buggies? A.
Yes, sir.
Harry Gilbert
Was recalled and examined by Mr.
win.
Q. You were the gentleman in Goos-
man's barn when the horse came in that
Er-
night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the horse warm? A. No, sir,
she was not sweating at all.
Q. One line was on one side of the mare
and one on the other, and how much of aſ
bow was there in the lines between the
horse and the dash board? A. They did
not reach down to the cross bar.
Q. And the lines were taut enough so
the slack in them did not reach the cross
bar? A. No. They were just as if a man
had dropped them out of his hand on the
dash board.
Q. Did they have the appearance of hav-
ing been driven 20 blocks without anybody
in the buggy? A. No, I don’t think they
did.
Q. Have you noticed that that horse in
traveling jerks the lines forward? A.
Well, when she gets a little tired she kind
of tosses her head.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You said they were black lines and
could not see any blood on them? A. No,
sir; not a particle.
As I remember your testimony before,
you spoke of stepping to the head of the
horse and pulling the lines out? A. No; I
didn't pull them out. We stood on the side
of the mare and reached over and got the
lines out. The weight was in the back
part of the buggy.
Q. If the lines were but between the
whip and the dash board and not wrapped
around the whip, that horse would have
gone quite a distance perhaps, before the
lines would have been pulled off from the
dash board? A. Well, if they had been
placed that way she would.
Edward Goodsell
was sworn and examined by Mr. Shu-
maker.
Q. You are a second cousin of the de-
fendant? A. Yes, sir. I reside in Chicago.
Am a dental student in the Chicago Dental
College.
Q. Did you see Harry Hayward in the
early part of November, '94? A. Yes, sir;
I think it was November 5th; I think it
was at the Grand Pacific Hotel, in the
lobby.
Q. Did you at that time, about that
time, see Harry Hayward exhibit any
amount of money? A. I did in the even-
ing. It was in our room in the Grand Pa-
cific Hotel. It was his room. I should
judge it was about 10 or 11 o'clock. We
were there all night together. He register-
ed when we got the room—when we went
up to bed.
Q. Now, go on and state the circum-
stances under which you saw the money?
A. Well, the first I saw of the money was
when he was counting it. He had it in a
moneybelt around his person.
Q. Under his coat and vest? A. Yes,
sir. I first noticed the money belt after he
took it off and put it on the center table
and he went out into the closet and came
back and took the money out of the money
belt and commenced counting it; and I sat
aside of him watching him counting it,
and he laid one pile over to one side of
the table and I counted that pile. It con-
sisted of 50 $100 bills.
Q. Did he have any other money? A.
Yes, sir, he had some he was counting in
his hands.
Q. Did you count it yourself? A. I did
not, no, sir.
Q. Did you notice the denomination of
any of the bills of that pile? A. Not in
particular.
Did you notice the denomination of
any bills there? A. I noticed some $5 and
$10 bills. -
Q. Did you notice any $1 bills? A. No,
sir, I did not.
Q. Was there any money transaction be-
tween you and he that night? A. Yes, sir.
He gave me a $100 bill, money he owed me.
Q. How much was the entire debt? A.
In the first I think it was about $700. And
he paid me $100 on account of that bill.
Q. At that time, how much did he owe
you? A. Well, I don’t know exactly, but
I think it was about $300.
Q. About this $100 bill that he paid you,
did you select it yourself or did he pick
out one and hand it to you? A. He picked
out one and handed it to me.
Q. Did you take that bill? A. No, sir,
because it was torn and mutilated and I
did not like the looks of it. I selected one
out of the pile myself. I subsequently got
that bill changed and used it.
Q. When did Harry leave Chicago to re-
turn to Minneapolis at that time? A. It
was the next day.
Q. During the time that you saw him did
you see him dispose of any considerable
money? A. No, sir, I did not.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Does Harry owe you any money now?
Yes, sir; $260.
Q. Has he paid you anything since he
was in Chicago? A. No, sir, he has not.
Q. Well, it is a pretty easy matter then
to figure how much he owed you at that
time, is it not? A. Yes, sir, it is; pretty
nearly the amount.
Q. Well, how much would $260 and $100
be? A. About $360.
Q. Well, that is what he owed you then,
is it not? A. Yes, sir, something like that.
Q. Are you positive it was that amount?
A. Yes, sir. He paid me something like
$40 or $50 when we were in the restaurant
the first part of the evening.
Q. In addition to the $100, or before he
paid you the $100? A. Before he paid me
the $100.
Q. Then he owed you about $400 before
you met him that day in Chicago? A. Yes,
sir, just about $400.
Q. Are you a married man? A: I am
not.
Q. You have been with Harry a good
deal whenever he has been in Chicago 2 A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And you have been up here consider-
ably 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have been with him nights a
good deal? A. I have.
Q. Been with him when he was gam-
bling a good deal? A. Yes, sir, I have. I






256
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
never knew very much about his gambling
until the last four years, or probably five
years.
Q. Well, since that he has gambled a
good deal while you have been with him?
A. Yes, sir; I have seen him gamble some.
Q. You have participated some in the
game? A. I have not. Never in the world.
Q. How did you come to meet him at
the Grand Pacific there, accidentally? A.
No, sir; he sent me a note that he was in
town.
Q. Were you with him from that time
until what time next day? A. Well, until
the time he got ready to go to the train.
About 6 I should judge.
Q. With him constantly all the time A.
Yes, sir.
Q: What time was it when you register-
ed there and took your room there? A.
It was when we went to bed, about 10
or 11 o’clock.
Q: What were you doing through the
evening? A. We were going around town.
Q. Well, he didn’t gamble any at all
from the time you first saw him until 6
o'clock the next evening, the time he took
the train? A. No, sir.
Q. Did he tell you where he got this
money? A. No, sir, he did not.
Q. Are you anywheres familiar with the
gambling houses in Chicago? A. Well, I
know where they are.
Q. Well, do you know whether, as a mat-
ter of custom, when gambling is going on
there, whether you can gamble on Sunday?
A. No, but I think you can.
Q. Is it not a fact, according to your
recollection, gambling was shut down at
that time? A. Well, I don’t know any-
thing about it.
Q. You have any talk with Harry about
gambling? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you learn what his errand at
Chicago was 2 A. Well, I could not state
positively about it. But I think he said
something about that he was there to
collect some money that he had loaned on
some diamonds; I don’t remember now
whether it was at that time or the time
previous to that that he told me that, I
could not state positively.
Q. How long previous to that time had
you seen him in Chicago? A. Well, I don’t
remember, but I think it was along in the
summer some time.
Q. Do you know where he had loaned
money on diamonds? A. I think it was in
New York.
this was in Chicago? A. Yes,
Q. How came he to say to you he had
come there to collect money he had loaned
on diamonds in New York? A. I think he
was to meet the man there.
Q. Did you ever see the diamonds he
loaned the money on 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know how much he claimed
to have loaned 2 A. No, sir.
Do you know where he kept his dia-
monds? A. I think they were in New
York.
Q. Well, you were around town through
the evening, what did you do principally?
A. Well, the first part of the evening we
went over to the Columbia. Theater and we
could not get any seats and we walked
around town a while.
Q. You drink any that evening? A. No,
sir.
Q. How did you come to count this
money? A. Why, I don’t know how I
came to count it, but it was laying there
and I felt interested to know how much
there was.
Q. Make any remarks about it? A. Not
as I remember about it.
Q. How did you come to count one pile
and he the other? A. He counted the
large pile first and laid it over to one side
and then he was counting the other pile.
Q. Which was the larger package that is
in bulk, the package with the small bills
or the package with the larger bills? A.
Well, I don’t know, but I think the smaller
bills were the largest.
Q. Now, he had disrobed and taken off
his belt—he wore the belt next to him? A.
I think he did.
Q. Well, was he undressed there and
you, too, when you was counting the mon-
ey? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did he say when he took off
the belt? A. I don’t believe he said any-
thing that I remember.
Q. Did you say anything? A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't you say, “Have you got so you.
have to carry your money in a belt,” any-
thing of that kind? A. No, sir.
Q. Did he say anything about where he
got his money? A. No, sir.
Q. Did it strike you as something un-
usual for him to have so much money on
his person, currency? A. No, sir.
Q. You understood from him that he
got in the city Sunday morning? A. I.
don’t know as I had got it from him, but
I had that impression.
Q. You knew that Sunday was not a
business day, and didn’t it strike you as
being strange that he was there on Sun-
day with $5,000 on his person in a belt? A.
No, sir; nothing strange.
Q. How long had he owed you that mon-
ey? A. Oh, probably five or six months
orevious to this.
Q. Money he had borrowed of you? A-
Yes, sir.
Q. To gamle with? A. No, sir.
Q. Wasn’t that money that Harry had
collected from a loan of yours? A. Yes.
sir
Q. And had not turned over the money
to you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Weren't you anxious to get
money? A. Yes, sir."
Q. Well, why didn’t you suggest he had
better pay the whole amount then with
such a pile of money as that? A. Why.
he told me he had made a loan of that
In Oneº-
Q. He hadn’t delivered it in any way.
How long have you been here from Chi-
cago? A. I have been here four or five
days.
Q. Been up here before this fall? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Harry wired you as soon as he was
arrested, didn’t he? A. Yes, sir.
You are very much interested in
this case? A. Yes, sir; I am.
You will swear for Harry as you
would for yourself? A. What do you
mean?
Q. You would testify for Harry the
same as if the case was your own? A-
If it was right I would; yes, sir.
Q. After the money was counted, what
was done with it? A. I don’t remember
whether he put it back in his money belt
your






OR THE HAywa RID MURDER TRIAL
257
or in his coat; I don’t remember where he
it.
º Do you remember where he kept it
during the night? A: No, sir, I do not.
Q. All this performance was gone
ºugh—the counting of the mºney-in si-
ºnce; nothing was said? A. Nothing
That I can remember.
Q: What was said about you taking $100?
A. I don't remember what he said about
it, only I had wanted some money and
didn't care to take the old torn bill he
offered me.
Q. How did you happen to tell him you
wanted any money? A. Because I needed
it.
Q. Then you claimed there was no con-
versation? A: No, sir.
He just reached and took the $100
bill and handed it to you, is that it? A. I.
believe there was something said about
whether I needed money or not. I believe
something was said about it previously in
a letter.
Q: What were you doing Monday? A.
Monday I went back to the college.
Q. Did he go with you? A. No, sir.
Q: What time did you go back to the
college? A. It was in the morning; I
should judge about 10 or 11 o'clock.
Q. I thought you told me you were with
Harry constantly Monday up to 6 o'clock,
when he took the train? A: I was, ex-
cepting the time he came out to the col-
lege; he came out to the college as soon
as he got up; it was perhaps an hour
after I got up.
Oh, you got up and left him in bed
at the hotel? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you got up and went to the col-
lege about 10? A. Yes, sir.
And he came up to the college in the
neighborhood of 11? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did you do from that time on?
A. I went over and attended to my work
there, and when he arrived showed him
around the college and we spent the most
of the afternoon there.
Q. Where did you go then? A. Along
toward evening we went down town.
Q. Did he transact any business while
he was with you with any one? A. No,
sir.
Q. You hadn't any note or evidence of
that indebtedness from Harry to you? A.
Yes, sir, a note. He give it to me on the
next day, on Monday.
Q. Well, prior to that time, before he
gave you the $40? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. You had another note before that
time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And he gave you another note Mon-
day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did he come to give you that?
A. When we were straightening up the
difference.
Q: Why didn't you indorse it on that
note? A: I do not know why. We de-
º the first note and made out a new
e.
Q. On Monday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you got that note with you
now? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Let's see it. A.
note.) This is the note.
The Court—Where was that $40 paid? A.
It was paid in a restaurant.
The Court—was it paid the same day he
let you have the $100: A yes, sir.
Q. How did he come to do that? A. He
was counting over his money in the res-
(Witness produces
taurant and I was pretty short and he
gave me $40.
Q. Where was this note written, in Chi-
cago? A. In my room.
A. And was it a letter head that it was
written on 2 A. Yes, sir, I believe it was,
college paper.
Q. Do you know what is torn off the
paper there? A. Why, I think that is just
a picture of the college.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. In whose handwriting is this note?
A. Harry's.
Mr. Erwin–I offer it in evidence.
Mr. Nye-No objection.
Mr. Erwin–There is no use of keeping
the note here, I will just read it to the re-
porter:
- “Chicago, November 5th, 1894.
“$260. Sixty days after date, for value
received, I promise to pay to Edward H.
Goodsell or order $260 with interest before
and after maturity at the rate of seven
per cent per annum.
“HARRY T. HAY WARD."
Mr. Nye-You swear positively that there
was $5,000 in that package you counted? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-And you say this torn off por-
tion here on this side of the note is the
picture of the colleege? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-And you used this kind of pa"
per? A. Oh, yes, for writing purposes.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m. Feb. 19, 1895.
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 19.
Edward Goodsell
Re-direct examination resumed by Mr.
Erwin.
Q. You were asked if you did not think
it strange that you saw Mr. Hayward in
possession of so much money as $5,000; and
you answered no. You may now explain
to the jury what mean by that; what you
know about him or about his business
which did not make it strange to you to
see so much money in his possession. A.. I
judged from the question that he meant it
was an unusual matter for Harry to have
so much money, and I don't know that I
ever saw Harry have so much money as
that before; but I have seen him have
large amounts of money, but not so large
as that.
Q. When have you seen him have large
amounts of money in the last two years?
A. It has been mostly when he has been
gambling.
Q. Now, in relation to his gambling, is
it not a fact that Harry Hayward en-
deavored to keep the fact of his gambling
as closely confined as possible, closely con-
fined away from the general hearsay? A.
Well, I always thought that I was one of
the few that knew about his gambling.
Q. Tell the jury when and where, and in
what amounts you saw him have large
sums of money. A. I have seen him have
large sums of money in Chicago, or when
he has been around gambling, and I have
seen him have large amounts of money
here in the city at his father's office. I
believe the largest amount that I ever seen
him have prior to this time is about $2,200.
I have only seen Harry in Chicago perhaps
four or five times since I have been there.
Q. Explain to the jury whether, when
Harry came there, or when you knew he




258
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
came there, when you generally visited
him and met him on the occasion of his
visit? A. Yes, sir; I always seen him; I
always met him there, unless he came
there sometimes, he did not meet me, no
doubt, and I don’t think he did.
Q. When he was going to play cards in
Chicago did he usually notify you to go
with him? A. Yes, sir; he did. I was the
only one.
Q. You said yesterday there was no con-
versation had at the time this money was
counted; you mean there were no words
spoken, no little talk, or do you mean ex-
to nded conversation ? A. I think we were
talking about some other things at the
time that interested us, and I don’t remem-
ber anything in particular about the mon-
ey, only that we had a previous talk in the
restaurant about me needing money, and
he promised to give me some. I mentioned
the fact to him that I needed money, and
he gave me $40 or $50 there, and he told
me he would give me some more before he
went away.
Q. I will ask you whether you have any
relationships with Harry which would
move you to tell other than the sworn
truth upon the stand? A. No, sir; I have
In One.
Q. Have you conversed with Harry since
his arrest in relation to money affairs?
Objected to as immaterial. Sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I want to show by the wit-
ness that on one occasion he started to—
The Court—I don’t think you have laid
the proper foundation for this.
Mr. Erwin—Your honor, I am only stat-
ing what appeared to be the innuendo of
the cross-examination. I want to prove
that he started to talk about money af-
fairs and he was informed by the defend-
ant in the jail that he must not talk about
those affairs to him.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Erwin. You expressed some doubt
yesterday as to whether he put the money
back in the money belt, all of it or any of
it, or whether he put it in his pocket. Now,
as I understand it, your testimony was
directed to that definitely; do you recollect
whether the next day he had any money,
or if you saw any money? A. Yes, he had
a large roll of money in his inside pocket.
It was not a roll, it was in a package form,
in his inside coat pocket. I believe I want-
en Harry to let me take the money, and he
did not want to do it. He made some re-
mark, I don’t remember what it was.
Q. Now, at that particular time when
you wanted to take the money had you
put any diamond ring that Harry had upon
your hand? A. I had.
Q. I want to ask you what relation the
diamond rings, if you had them on your
hand, had to your wanting to take the
money? A. I don't know any particular
reason, only I wanted to take them over
to the college and have them on.
You wanted to show up to the boys
with a roll and the diamonds? A. I did;
that was my intention.
Q. Harry did not let you have the money
for that purpose? A. No, but he let me
have the rings.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. How much time have you spent up
here in the last year, do you know? A. I.
thing I have been up here three or four
times. I stayed, I think, it was a week or
10 days' time prior to this affair.
Q. Always been with Harry, haven't
you? A. I have been with him, yes. Did
not come to see him more than the rest of
the folks.
Q. Who do you mean by your folks? A.
My nearest folks, I think, are uncles, aunts
and cousins.
Q. You mean W. W. Hayward's family
here? A. No, sir.
Q. Who were your uncles and aunts
here? A. They live out in the country. I
have no one else beside them in the city.
Q. Where do they live in the country?
A. They live at, used to live at Howard
Lake and Delano, on the Great Northern
road.
Q. When did you visit them? A. I vis-
ited them at the time that I was here in
September, I believe it was.
Q. But you have been with Harry this
last summer and fall when he was in Chi-
cago, haven’t you? A. When he was gam-
bling, yes, sir. I remember one time he
lost something over $1,000. I think that
was, I am not positive, but I think it was
the trip that he made in the summer some-
time. I can only remember one time in
particular of his losing, and I cannot state
exactly what that time was, which trip it
was that he made there—he made several
trips.
Q. Do you know about how many trips
he had made in the last summer and fall?
A. It has not been a great many; four or
five, I should judge.
Q. Was the place where he lost 73 Jack-
son street? A. No, sir, I don’t think it
was. I think it was on Wabasha. I don’t
remember the name of the house.
Q. You have seen him play at other
times in past seasons in Chicago and lose,
haven’t you? A. No, sir, I don’t think
ever went with Harry–
Q. Don’t you remember of his losing
something like $700 at one time? A. No,
Sir.
Q. Was there anything further said
about this money when you saw it in his
pocket than what you have related? A.
No, I don’t remember.
Q. Did you ask him what he had done
with his money belt? A. No, sir.
Q. Did it occur to you as pretty care-
less to carry that money in Chicago in that
way when he had such a secure place for
it? A: I always thought he was careless
about that matter.
Q. No remarks made about his carrying
it in his pocket instead of the belt? A.
No, sir; I don’t remember it.
Q. You wanted to take the roll and dia-
mond rings and go and flash them among
the boys? A. Yes, I did.
Q. Didn't Harry dare to trust you? A.
I suppose he felt as if the money Was
better in his pocket—I don't know. He
let me have the diamonds.
Q. How many diamond rings did he
have? A. Three.
Q: What kind were they? A: I don't
know much about diamonds. There wer?
two single stones, quite large ones, and
one of the rings, if I remember right had
three sets, and three stones.
Q. Did you see them the day before Sun-
day? A. Yes, I believe I did.





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
259
Q. Was he wearing them? A. I think
he had one, one or two or ulem on.
Q. Did you know where he got them?
A. No, I did not.
Mr. Smith—You formerly lived at Howard
Lake? A. Yes, sir. I lived there until I
was perhaps 12 or 13 years old.
The Court—What did you do with these
rings? A. I took the rings over to the
college and had some fun with them and
then I gave them back to him.
Mr. Nye-What is your uncle's name up
there at Howard? A. I haven’t any uncle
at Howard; I have at Delano. I have no
relatives now at Howard Lake. I have a
grandfather and an uncle at Delano. My
uncle's name is Bryant. So is my grand-
father's name Bryant.
F. C. Erhardt
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Your brother is the Erhardt that re-
covered the dead body of this murdered
woman? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you on the night of that
murder, on the 3d day of December last?
A. I was at home at half past 6.
You live out there where your broth-
er stated? A. Yes, I live in my house and
he lives with my mother. My house is
right across the street from theirs.
Q. What time that evening were you
informed that there was a woman’s body
out there in the road 2 A. I did not look
at the time, but I think about half past 8.
Q. Did you go out with your brother to
the body? A. Yes. No one but my broth-
or had been there ahead of me—not that I
know of.
Q. I want you to describe to the court
and jury what you did in reference to
tracks or appearances of persons who had
been around about the murdered body and
just exactly what you found, describe
them. A. Well, when my brother came up
to the house, he come into the house and
says, “Frank put on your coat and come
with me; there is a dead body laying there”
—he did not know whether it was dead or
not; he did not know what it was at that
time. We went down and I was kind
of joking with him on the way that he
got scared about something, did not know
what he said, and we got down there and
discovered it was a woman laying there.
He mentioned before we got there that he
met a rig on the other side of Pierce's hill,
the other side of the body, and the min-
ute I saw the body laying there I said
“That body could not fall out of a buggy,
runaway, accident, the way it was laying.”
We discussed it whether he should go to
the corner and telephone for police, or
I should. He decided to go, and I stayed
there, my brother-in-law and we stayed
there while he was after the patrol wagon.
While we were watching the body there
we were kind of figuring it out between
us how this woman could lie there without
showing some mark, and whether she was
dragged out of the buggy; we could not
find any marks of dust on the ground or
on the body of this woman, no dust. The
only mark I found was, I discovered where
she had her foot, had struck her heel in
the dust.
Q. Describe to the jury where that was
and how it was, and what its appearance
Was A. The buggy was going this way,
these tracks here the head was in the
opposite way, as though she had turned
around, and her heel mark faced the same
way her head laid, and I could see the
imprint of the heel, and then she went
over onto her toes, both toes were down
in the ground and her heel was up in
the air.
Q. Which way was the heel track point-
ing? A. Pointing towards the head.
Q. What heel mark was there?
should judge about six or eight
that she had dragged her foot
the other foot.
Q. The toe was raised up and dragged
to where she lay; it was dragged
towards the other, towards the lake. The
body lay the same way that the heel mark
was. She was laying almost on her stom-
ach.
Mr. Nye-More to the right or left? A.
No, sir; laying more on her stomach than
she was on her right side.
Q. Was it inclined a little to the right
side? A. It may have been from the waist
up, but her lower limbs was facing down-
wards.
Q. From the waist down the body lay
as if the limbs faced downward, and there
Was dust on the ground? A. And the
heels up in the air.
Now, was there any dust upon her
at all to show where she was dragged in
the dust, or anything? A. No, sir, there
was not.
Q. Did you notice her heel and notice
the dragging of the heel so as to be sure
it was dragging made by her little bootee?
A. Yes.
Q. This was a woman's heel drag, and
not a man’s? A. A woman’s heel drag,
yes, sir, the same as the shoe that she
had on. I noticed this particularly be-
cause it was the only mark I saw on the
ground. I had an impression, of course,
it was a runaway, and that was the only
mark I discovered that the woman may
have been thrown any way out of the
buggy. That is all I paid particular notice
to.
A.. I
inches
towards
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. She looked as though she had been
thrown head first? A. Yes, sir; that was
my impression.
Q. And that in the fall and roll of the
body the heel had scraped there? A. I
don’t know how that was.
Q. It had that appearance? A. The
only appearance it had was that the limbs
come together, that is, one limb went to-
ward the other one.
Q. Your impression as to it being a fall
from a buggy was that it impressed you
that she had been thrown out of the bug-
gy? A. I don’t know whether she was
thrown out.
Q. I asked you the impression your
mind received from her appearance on the
ground, the way she was laying? A. That
is why I got suspicious; she was laying
the opposite way.
Q. Were you in your house during the
half hour preceding the time that your
brother came? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who else was in the house with you—
your family? A. My wife and two child-
ren.
Q. Did you hear any shot there? A.
No, sil.
Q. You have windows, haven’t you,
in




260 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
the house—on the end and this way to-
wards the body? A. No, sir.
Q. Are there windows on this side to-
wards the roof? A. Yes, sir, there are
no windows in the rear of the house at
all, that is facing north.
Q. The rear would be the end facing to-
ward the body? A. Yes, almost square
with the body; my house stands square
with Twenty-second street and Excelsior
avenue; it does not run with the con-
pass; my house stands with Thirty-second
street square.
Mr. Erwin–Now, as a matter of fact,
When you saw these foot tracks and the
scraping of the toes, to where the toe lay
upon the ground, what puzzled you was
how a woman could fall out of a buggy
striking her feet between the tracks,
wasn’t it? A. Yes, sir, I could not dis-
cover no wheel tracks.
Q. You did not see any appearance of
striking on her head, but found tracks
where she struck on her feet? A. Yes, sir.
I discovered tracks where she struck on
her feet.
Q. There is no way on earth that that
woman could have fallen out on her head
and struck on her heels there?
(No response.)
George A. Grindall
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q: What is your name? A. George A.
Grindall
is your business? A. Team-
Q. On that day, on Monday, the 3d day
of December, where were you at 7 o'clock?
A. I was on First avenue north, between
Fourth and Fifth streets, on the side to-
ward Hennepin.
Q. What were you doing there at that
time? A. I had an appointment there with
a young lady–Lizzie Anderson.
Q: What did you see there—who did you
see there at that time? A. I see a man
there about 5 feet 8 or 9 inches high; had
gray mustache and gray whiskers—looked
like that gentleman's right there, coming
to a point (indicating Mr. Sweetser).
How was he dressed 2 A. Dressed in
long, dark overcoat, one of the caps, new
kind of cap in use this fall—I don’t know
what kind of cap you call it. He had his
collar around his head, like this.
Q. A long, dark overcoat? A. Yes, a
black overcoat.
Q. Collar up? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How was the coat, buttoned or unbut-
toned? A. Buttored up all the way down,
buttoned to his knees.
Q. What was the character of the coat
as to being, whether smooth surface, rough
surface—describe it more particularly 2 A.
I think it was a smooth surface coat–dark
color. -
Q: What was it then, at that hour of the
night, light or dark? A. It was not so
very dark or very light. The gaslights
were all lit. (Witness described location of
lamps in the block.)
Q. The alley is in the center of the block?
A. The alley is in the center of the block.
Q. Now, I have drawn two half blocks
here to show the alley in the block—this is
the Hennepin side of the block, between
Fourth and Fifth; here is Fourth street,
here is ºifth street, here is First avenue.
You say right on a corner here was a tree?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, where was the telegraph pole in
reference to that half block, was it in the
center or where? A. About here, I should
judge (indicating).
t was not quite to the center? A.
No, sir, as near as I can judge from it.
Now where was another light? A.
There was a lamp post between that and
the alley. This man stood right in there,
near this lamp post (indicating).
Q. What time did you get there on that
street? A. Somewhere between a quarter
to 7 and 7 o'clock. I was there quite a
little while before I heard the 7 o'clock bell
ring. -
Q. While you were there you did hear
the 7 o'clock bell ring, did you? A. Yes,
sir; the postoffice bell; you can hear it just
as plain as you can anything.
Q. What time did you first notice the
man in reference to the 7 o'clock bell, be-
fore or after 7 o'clock? A. After the 7
o'clock bell it was, quite a little while
after. He was there 20 minutes or more.
I met his lady at the corner of the alley,
and I turned around and went away with
her, towards Washington.
Q. Go on and describe what you saw.
A.. I saw the main there first when I went
there; and when I was there a little while
and heard the bell ring, and I waited a
while and I asked the main what time it
was, and he took out his watch and he told
me that it was 10 minutes past 7, and I
walked back and forth minding my own
business and pretty soon I saw this buggy
coming down around the corner from the
West Hotel. It was a piano box buggy,
with a buckskin horse. (Witness identified
both as the ones he had seen at the Dime
Museum.)
Q. Who was driving? A. A lady. As
near as I can say she had on a sailor hat
and veil came down around her face, and
she had on a brown cloak.
Q. Do you know whether it was fur or
not? A. I could not swear whether it was
fur or not. I was not within 10 or 12 feet
of her.
Q. Now, where did she drive in reference
to where the man was standing and the
lamp post? A. She drove right in close to
the lamp post, within six feet of the lamp
post. Just as I walked by, the man asked
her if she had something with her—had
that with her.
Q. If she had that with her? A. Yes,
sir. I could not hear what it was, and he
made some kind of a break.
Q. well, what did he say? A. Well, he
said, “That is a hell of a note.” That was
after she had replied to him first.
Q. Did you hear what she said? A: No,
sir; not after that.
Q. Did you hear her reply to him? A:
No, sir. They commenced then to talk low,
and every time I would go by the buggy
she would get back in the corner of the
buggy.
Q. How many times did you pass that
buggy before you went away? A. Oh, half
a dozen times.
Q. what became of the parties and the
buggy? A. They drove away and I went
away about my business.
Q. Did the man get into the buggy? A.
Yes, sir. º
Q. How long before they drove away
A. Oh, they were there somewhere in the









OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
251
neighborhod of 10 or 15 minutes before
they drove away. They turned around
and went up First avenue north.
Q. How long after she drove into this
man did you hear this remark about her
having something with her? A. She just
stopped the buggy.
Q. When did you first hear of this mur-
der? A. The next morning when I came
down to breakfast at home. I live with my
mother and father.
Q. When did you first speak of this oc-
currence? A. That morning to my father
and mother.
Q: Who did you next tell of this occur-
rence? A. I think it was at noon when
I came over the river with our alderman,
Burke O'Brien.
Q: What lawyer connected with this case
or has been connected with this case, did
you speak to first? A. To Mr. Hale. I
was advised by parties living at our place
to go and tell Mr. Hale and I went and
told him, I should judge about a week after
the thing occurred. Mr. Hale sent me to
Mr. Sweetser. I saw Mr. Sweetser the first
Friday after New Year's. He took me to
you next morning. I had told this same
story to all the parties.
Mr. Nye-Well, I object to that.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I intend to show by this wit-
mess a system of persecution on the part
of persons connected with the constabu-
lary. I don’t know what connection they
have with the prosecution, and I don’t be-
lieve any with the county attorney's office—
The Court—Well, you can’t do that.
Mr. Erwin–And it is in that connection I
wish to put it in at this time—
The Court—Of course, when we come to
try the officers, we will have it all go in.
But at this time–
Mr. Erwin–Well, if the court please I
wish to put it in at this—
The Court—Well, if there is any objection
to it it will be ruled out.
Mr. Nye-I have objected to the question
and the objection has been sustained.
Q. Have any police officers of this city
visited you, after you had notified the at-
torneys in this case what you knew?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as incom-
petent, irrelevant and immaterial.
The Court.—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Now, with my offer, your
honor, I will take an exception.
The Court—You can ask him the question
straight and they can object to it if they
desire.
Q. Has Detective Hoy
house and threatened you?
Mr. Nye–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial. -
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Have the policemen upon the other
side, the side you live on, constantly hoot-
ed at you, where you live?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
And I think the counsel ought to know
better than to ask questions of that kind;
you know very well, Mr. Erwin, they are
not competent.
Mr. Erwin–Your honor, I hold they are
competent.
The Court—Well, I hold they are not.
Mr. Erwin–In connection with the public
action of this witness; and I want this to
come to your
go before the jury just as it is—they can-
not manufacture something to put in before
this jury—I want it put in now.
The Court—When the proper time comes
I will allow you to put it all in. But at
this time it is certainly improper.
Mr. Erwin–I want to anticipate, if your
honor please, showing they are manufac-
turing something to break down this wit-
ness for the defense—I want to meet it at
the door.
Mr. Nye-I will show you who has been
manufacturing before I get through.
Mr. Erwin–Well, you hunt it up—
Mr. Nye-I will hunt you to the end of
the earth.
The Court—Gentlemen, gentlemen, I will
fine you both for contempt.
Mr. Nye-I don’t want you to shoot your
mouth at me in that manner.
The Court—Gentlemen, go on with the
trial.
Mr. Erwin–Let me say here honestly, I
do not believe that the county attorney is
responsible for one single thing in this
action; but I want to prove—
The Court—Don’t you know it is entirely
improper, Mr. Erwin?
Mr. Erwin–No, sir; I did not, you honor.
The Court—If you are going to attempt
to prove the difficulties between witnesses
and police officers in this case, or any other
officials except the county attorney’s of:
fice, it is improper. You should not come
into this case attempting to prove any
difficulty between a witness and a police
officer, or any other officer not connected
with the office of the county attorney, or
any person which the state has nothing to
do with.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, I hold
it as a matter of legal right to prove all
attempts made by any parties to change
the character of the witness’ testimony—
that is my view of the matter, and if the
court overrules me I will submit to it; but
I hold that is my right, and I did so hold
in my opinion in good faith. Take the wit-
ness.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Were you convicted
court about '932 A. Yes,
deny it.
Q. Been arrested repeatedly for various
offenses? A. I have been arrested, Yes,
in the Federal
sir; I don’t
sir.
Mr. Erwin–I object to that as incom-
petent.
The Court. The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin. Exception noted.
Q. Been in trouble more or less for years
since you have been in the city?
Mr. Erwin. Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial, and indefinite.
The Court. Well, he can call the atten-
tion of the Witness to the different crimes
he has been charged with.
Q. Are you married? A. I was married,
yes, sir. I ain't now.
Q. Living with your parents at the time
you had this appointment with the young
woman? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you make the appointment?
A. I think it was Monday afternoon,
about 3 o'clock I saw her. She was going
away and she was coming down that way
and wanted me to meet her and go with
her up to North Minneapolis.
Q. How is it that you were to meet her




262 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
-
up on First avenue north? A. She was up
on Seventh Street and she told me she
would come down that way.
Q. Where did you see her when you made
your appointment? A. I saw her up on
Hennepin avenue, and I walked up the ave-
nue with her.
Q. Was she a woman that you Were
keeping company with at the time? A.
Yes, sir. She was working out up on Sev-
enth street somewhere. I could not tell the
place because I never was up there.
Q. Where were you going up north with
her? A. Up somewheres north; up on Six-
teenth avenue, I think she was going.
Q: What for? A. Up to see some folks.
And we got as far as Fourth avenue and
she met the folks she was going to see,
and I left her there and she turned around
". ". a Way with the folks.
- at time were you to
there? A. At 7 oº.” meet her
Q. Was there any objection to meeting
her at the house where she lived? A. Nº
Sir, not as I know of. -
Q: Was it a secret sort of a meetin
had with her? A. No, sir. 3 you
º Well, º Why didn't you go where
he was working? A. I didn't k
number. now the
Q: Didn't she know; couldn't she t
- ell
you? A. She told me, but I had forgotten
all about it; and when I left her in the
afternoon I forgot to ask her.
Mr. Hale turned
down. did nº
. No, sir. you down, didn’t he?
Q. He didn't? A.
told No, sir. Mr. Hale
Q: Well, didn't Mr. Hale–
Mr. Erwin. Let him.
explain.
Q: What was it? A. Mr. Hal t
I would be interviewed by º º
pretty soon. y else
Q. Have you not switched from that
since to a man by the name of Hayes, a
sandy complexioned fellow with light mus-
tache? A. No, sir, I don't know any man
by the name of Hayes; all I know about a
man by the name of Hayes is he rooms out
by our house and he was advertised in the
papers.
Q. Then you would not come to the
Hayes theory in this case? A. No, sir; I
would not. I would not have anything to
do with the Hayes crowd; I have been
asked that three or four different times.
Q. You passed back and forth from the
alley to Fourth street? A. Yes, sir.
Q. From 20 minutes to half an hour? A.
I walked back and forth, yes, sir.
Q. The man was there 20 minutes, you
say? A. I should think about 20 minutes,
I do not know, though; I had no watch.
Q. He was standing by the light while
ycu were walking back and forth for 20
minutes, is that right? A. He was stand-
ing, walking, yes, sir.
Q. But most of the time under the light?
A. Well, you could see him; he stood right
there by that place.
Q. The buggy turned from Fifth street,
you think, from the direction of the West
Hotel, and came down opposite this lamp
post and turned and swung into the lamp
post, did it, under the light? A. Yes, sir,
and the man was standing there when she
turned in.
Q. Was the conversation before the man
got into the buggy or after? A. It was be-
fore the man got into the buggy.
Q. Where were you before that conversa-
tion? A: I was walking back and forth; I
did not listen to it, I thought it was none
of my business, and I was not going to list-
en to the talk.
Q. Waiting for Lizzie, I suppose? A. I.
Suppose SO; yes.
Q. Now, who spoke first, the woman or
the man 2 A. The first I heard was the
man speak. He wanted to know if she
had that with her. She said, “No.” I
was right opposite her when she said it.
Then he said, “That is a hell of a note.”
I was walking by then. I walked right on
by them, I did not stop to listen to her
reply.
Q. Had you had any conversation with
the man before the buggy came up? A. I.
asked him what time it was and he unbut-
toned his coat and took out his watch and
said it was 10 minutes past 7.
Q. About 20 minutes after you saw him
you spoke to him? A. No, sir; it was
about five minutes before she drove up that
I asked him what time it was.
Q. But he was there about 20 minutes
before the buggy came? A. He came
shortly after I came there.
Q. Well, it was about 20 minutes before
the buggy came? A. Yes, 15 or 20 minutes.
Q. The buggy stood there five minutes
you think? A. Yes.
Q. More than five? A. I could not tell,
I had no time.
Q. Well, do you know what time you
landed at the corner there? A. When I
came by the Union depot there it was about
20 minutes of 7.
Q. Do you know what time you left
your house? A. Not exactly, but some-
wheres in the neighborhood of 6 o'clock-
I put on my coat and went out.
Q. What time do you nave supper? A.
Oh, we have supper from half past 5 to
a quarter of 6.
Q: What is your usual supper hour? A.
Any time we are all there we get supper
and eat—any time after 5 o'clock.
Q. Do you know what time you left the
house? A. Well, I met the working girls
going home, on the bridge; working girls
going home from the shops.
Q. Well, you figured on meeting Lizzie
Anderson at 7 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You did not know Miss Ging during
her lifetime? A. No, sir. .
Q. You did not recollect of seeing the rig
before that night? A. No, sir.
Q. were there any other lights on that
block? A. One across the street, a little
further up, and one on the other corner at
the grocery store, I think; I would not be
rtain. -
“. When did your girl come—did you sº
later? A. Yes, sir.
". How long was that after the buggy
had gone? A. The buggy had just turned
*...*&n. the buggy had turned before
they went? A. Turned partly around. d
Q. Well, they would not turn º
again to go south, that is, out towº
Fifth street on First avenue. A. W.
they stood there talking, the horse ".
turned towards Fourth street, cºme. d
quartering like this, swung the forwar
wheel out like this (indicating). n
Q. I thought you said, they canº in o
First avenue and turned in by the *
post? A. No, sir; they turned in by



OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
263
lamp post like that, and out again (indi-
cating).
Q. Then they came in on First avenue
and drove in quartering, and the horse
faced Fourth street while all of this talk-
ing was going on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see this buggy turn around
the corner of Fifth street and First ave-
nue? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the horse trotting? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. You saw it turn quite rapidly around
the corner and go down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The top was up? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You swear to that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anybody else along there?
A. Folks passing back and forth, going
home, I suppose.
Q. The street was quite well traveled,
then, at that time? A. Oh, there was not
so very many traveling.
Q. Well, you saw numerous people com-
ing and going? A. Quite a good many on
the same side I was on.
Q. Did you remember whether you saw
anybody else about that time or in that
vicinity, except Miss Anderson, who you
knew? A. I don’t think I did.
Q. Will you swear you did not? A. Yes,
sir, I will.
Q. Did you ever claim that you did? A.
I never claimed that I saw anybody else—
never told any one I saw anybody else.
Q. You are sure of that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Never to any person whatever? A.
Never to any person whatever.
Q. Have you been up there since, on
that half of that block? A. Well, I was
there yesterday afternoon.
Q. What for? A. Well, a certain party
wanted me to go up there and swear dif-
ferent to what I see.
Q: Who was that?
Mr. Erwin–Tell his name,
was.
A. Mr. Ebert.
Q. What time did you go up there? A.
About 1 o'clock .
Q. Haven’t you been up there before?
A. But once before, I think, with Mr.
Sweetzer.
Q. How long ago is that? A. That was
the next day after he was at my house—
the first Saturday after New Year's.
Q. Were you ever up there with any one
whoever it
before that? A. No, sir.
Q. Sure? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you go up there for, to
show them where it was? A. Yes, sir.
They requested me to; he requested me to
meet him at his office next morning at
9 o'clock, and I did so.
Q. You say Mr. Ebert was the second
or third person you told about this? A.
think it was; yes, sir. I was there in the
office, and we got to talking about it,
Q. Were you taken sick here the other
day, in the court room? A. Yes, sir; I
went outside, and I was.
Q. When did you go and look at the
buggy? A. I think it was Friday night.
Q: Who requested you to go and see the
buggy? A. I was over town and had no
other place to go, and thinks I, “I will go
to the Dime Museum just to pass away a
little time.”
Q. Had you seen the horse since? A.
No, sir.
Q. Never have seen the horse since that
night? A. Not until I saw it at the Dime
Museum.
Q. You say you had not seen the horse
or the buggy before that? A. No, sir.
Q. Or did not know the person? A. No,
sir.
Have you ever told any different
story than this to Mr. Ebert? A. No, sir.
Or to anyone else? A. No, sir.
Q. You used to work for Hillman Broth-
ers? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were arrested for embezzlement
by that firm 2 A. No, sir. -
Q. You had trouble of that kind? A.
No, sir.
Q. You swear to that?
that, sir.
Q. What compensation are you getting
for your services in this case? A. I don't
know that I get anything, sir, only my
witness fees. I ain’t asked for anything,
and I ain't been promised anything. The
subpoena was left at my house, and I
came over here.
Q. Which avenue did you go on, you and
Miss Anderson, after you left the buggy?
A. Right down First avenue to Washing-
ton.
Q. And right up Washington avenue? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you notice the time of day at any
time? A. No, not after I left the man
there; I never noticed the time of day.
Mr. Nye-That is all I desire to ask the
witness now. If he is going to be here I
may want to ask him a few more questions.
Mr. Erwin–He will be here, and you
can question him at any time.
The Court—If I understand you right, you
say you did not see the horse and buggy
again from that night until you saw them
in the Dime Museum? A. That is the only
time I saw them.
RE-RIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Now, Mr. Grindall, I want you to tell
the jury whether Mr. Hoy, the detective,
called at your house, and how long after
you had seen me, and what he said, and
all about it?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as imma-
terial and not re-direct.
The Court—Well, the objection is sus-
tained.
Mr. Erwin–I desire to make an offer, if
the court please, and I do not care to
make it before the jury—
The Court—Mr. Erwin, you have not
made any connection between this man
Hoy and the state; you have not asked him
a question here to lay the foundation for
impeachment.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I have
got my views of what my rights are—
The Court—Well, I have mine.
Mr. Erwin–And I don’t want to make
my offer before the jury here, and if your
honor will allow me to say privately to
the reporter what I wish to go on the rec-
ord—what my offer is.
"he Court—It may be at some time com-
petent proof; but as the question stands
now it is certainly not competent.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if he is to be recalled
on that point I will wait, and if he is not
recalled I will renew my offer.
Q. Now, in relation to your arrest first.
You were asked if you were convicted in
the United States court. Now, you may
tell the jury what you were accused of,
A. I swear to


264 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
and what your conviction was for and the
circumstances of it? A. Well, I suppose I
was convicted for writing indecent letters
through the mails, so they told me.
Q. To what person? A. To the divorced
wife of mine.
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as imma-
trial.
The Court—Well, he cannot go into the
particulars; he has stated before what it
was. -
Mr. Erwin–I offer to show by this wit-
ness that he had trouble with his wife and
that his wife caused him to be arrested for
passing an indecent letter, a threatening
letter, through the mails to her; and he
had two trials; that the jury failed to agree
on both trials, and afterwards and finally
at the request of Judge Nelson, the United
States judge, he plead guilty, and he re-
ceived what punishment was given.
A. Five hundred dollars fine, or incar-
cerated in Hennepin county jail until such
fine was paid.
Q. And were you immediately released?
A. No, I stayed there 30 days.
Mr. Erwin–And that on request of the
judge to prevent a further trial, he plead
guilty and received this punishment in or—
der to settle the case. Do you object to
that, Mr. Nye?
Mr. Nye-I object to it as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial.
The Court—Well, take it as a whole, the
objection will be sustained.
Mr. Erwin–An exception noted.
Q. How many trials did you have in the
United States district court on the charge
of sending— A. Two.
Q. What did the jury do in each case?
A. In the first case I understood they
stood nine for acquittal and three for con-
viction, as near as I could find out.
Mr. Nye-Well, I object.
Mr. Erwin. Well, I will consent that that
be stricken out.
The Court—It will be stricken out.
Q. At whose request did you plead
guilty?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q: What was the action of the second
jury?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Q. Did they agree or disagree? A. They
disagreed.
Q. I now renew the question, at whose
request did you plead guilty?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Well, now, with the offer
that goes with that question I take an
exception to the ruling of the court.
Q. Now, is that the only time that you
were ever convicted in the United States
court? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, I will ask you whether or not
you did have trouble with your wife and
whether out from that and out from the
indictment about sending indecent letters,
and your testimony in regard to that you
had several arrests?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial.
The Court—As to the difficulty between
he and his wife, I don’t think we will try
it at this time. Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I asked him in relation to
the arrests, whether these arrests grew out
of trouble with his wife? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What charges were made in relation
to that matter?
Mr. Nye—Objected to as immaterial.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Q. What matter do you mean?
The Court—Well, any matter.
Q. Well, anything she could pick up.
The Court—That is not it. What were
you arrested for? A. Well, one time she
claimed I called her names.
The Court—It don’t make any difference
who made the complaint. What were you
arrested for? Just answer the question. A.
I think one time for calling her indecent
nameS.
Q. What was done with you in that case?
A. In that case I was put under bonds?
Q. What was another arrest for? A.
Another time I was up in North Minneapo-
lis and I came down on the street car and
I came down around First street and First
avenue north, and she called a police officer
and the officer came up to me as I was
going up First avenue north and says, “I
want you.”
Q. What was the charge then? A. I for-
get now. I ain’t certain.
Q. Well, was it a charge preferred by
her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was done with you on that
charge? A. I was fined, I believe, at that
time.
Q. Now, at what times have you been ar-
rested except on matters growing out of
trouble with your divorced wife? A. Oh, I
have been arrested once or twice in town
for skylarking around. That was five or
six years ago. -
Q. Now, did you have a case where you
were a witness in a street car accident,
where a man brought money to you, $25,
and offered you for your testimony ,and
you consulted with the attorneys of the
street car company, and they told you to
take the money and bring it into court, and
did you so do?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Now, in relation to this man yester-
day, what Mr. Ebert is this who came to
you yesterday? A. Charley Ebert.
Q. What time did he come to you yester-
day? A. About 1 o'clock. I was down to
First avenue south and Washington. He
says, “You are just the man I want to see.”
He wanted to know where I was; he said
he had sent a man over to my house and
over to my brother-in-law’s.
Q. What else did he say?
Mr. Nye-Well, I object to that as imma-
terial at this time.
Mr. Erwin–This has been brought about
by their cross-examination.
The Court—The objection is sustained. It
was simply brought out that Charley Ebert
had spoken to him, but not any portion of
the conversation was given.
Mr. Erwin–I will state generally what I
want to prove. -
The Court—Well, you had better put it in
writing; we have had enough of this.
Mr. Erwin–I will state it to the reporter.
I offer to show generally that Mr. Ebert
came to him and desired him to recognize
some other party as being present at the
time he saw this man and woman in the








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 265
buggy, in order that the other party might
be used as a witness, and that he offered
this man one-half of the money that could
be obtained by producing this other cor-
roborating witness.
The Court—Until you connect that with
the state, you know it is entirely improper.
You might bring in a thousand in here and
try their cases, and we are not going to do
it. Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Now, if the court please, I
will offer that in connection with all the
other offers I have made, to show a general
attempt.
The Court—You may make the offer and
I will say this, that the court will rule
against you every time in that respect un-
til you connect these men with the state.
Mr. Erwin–I can’t do it; I have not got
the least connecting link with the county
attorney or his assistants.
The Court—Well, you will have to do it.
You might bring in every man in the city
and ask the court to sit here and try the
Case.
M. Erwin–Well, I will connect it with
the police officials, just the men who have
taken an interest in this prosecution.
The Court—When you connect it properly,
then it will be time to consider it. But if
you do not connect it properly the court
will not permit you to show any such
thing.
Q. Have you ever had any talk with or
intimation from any person connected with
this defendant or with his family, in which
they have offered to pay you for your serv-
ices, or pay you money, or anything of
that kind? A. No, sir, I have not.
Q. I want to ask you if you have seen
in the court room Miss Julia Ging, the
sister of Miss Catherine Ging, the mur-
dered woman 2 A. Yes, sir, I have been
told it was her.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You have been in the workhouse sev-
eral times? A. Yes, sir, a couple of times;
I don’t deny that.
Q. You are sure it is not more than a
couple of times? A. All that I know of.
Q. Well, is your recollection as good on
that point as it is on the buggy? A. I
think it is but twice.
Q. Disorderly conduct, drunkenness,
charges of that kind? A. No, sir; I don’t
drink.
Q. Disorderly conduct? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, I meant to ask you one ques-
tion a little more particularly—did that
man have quite a long whisker? A. Quite
long, and kind of pointed, at least six
inches below the mouth.
Q. Sit up straight and let the jury see.
Mr. Erwin–Now, if the court please,
let him describe it on somebody else; he
cannot see when he is describing it on him-
self.
Q. Describe it on me. A. Well,
would come down about this far.
Mr. Erwin–Just about an inch and a half
below the chin? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Don't you know you had your hand
five or six inches down below your chin
when you were showing me just now? A.
I did not know; I could not see.
Q. Well, they were quite perceptibly
gray? A. Yes, they were kind of gray.
they
Q. Somewhat pointed? A. Yes, sir; look-
ed like a real fine gentleman.
Q. Did he have a heavy mustache” A.
Yes, sir; of dark gray.
Q. What kind of a hat did he have on?
A. He had on a cap.
Q. Did you notice what kind of a watch
he had 2 A. He had a gold watch, hunt-
ing case watch.
Q. He just unbuttoned his overcoat and
slipped his hand in there and pulled his
watch out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was his hair gray? A. I did not no-
tice his hair at all.
Q. Didn't you notice whether it corres-
ponded with his whiskers and mustacheº
A. No; I did not notice that at all.
Q. Did he wear glasses? A. No; he did
not wear glasses.
Q. How were his hands,
Yes, sir. I should judge
gloves.
Q. Did you notice about his shoes? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. What kind? A. They were these long
pointed shoes, tanned shoes.
Q: What kind of pants, did you notice?
A. No, sir.
Q. You describe him as about five feet
eight or nine inches high? A. Yes, sir;
eight or nine inches—I noticed he was a
little taller than I am. -
Q: What is your height? A. I don't
know. I never measured myself.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You say this man had on pointed
shoes? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you notice that? A. Oh,
when I walked back and forth I was won-
dering what he was doing there, what he
was waiting for.
Q. Tanned shoes? A. Light shoes.
Mr. Erwin–I would like this witness noti-
fied to be here this afternoon.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You wondered what he was waiting
there for because he had on tanned shoes?
A. No, a gentleman of that sort, you don’t
see them waiting around very often—I am
around town every night, and I don’t see
them waiting around that way very often.
The overcoat collar buttoned up
close? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't see what kind of a collar or tie
he had on, anything like that? A. No, sir.
Mr. Erwin–How high did his collar come
up, when his collar was up, what kind of
a collar was it, a high or low collar? A.
Pretty high collar, up around his ears.
Mr. Erwin–Did it cover up his whiskers
when it was up? A. It covered up all
around here, but they came out in front
here.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock
p. m.)
gloved? A.
they were kid
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 19.
George A. Grindall
was recalled and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. How do you remember this as the
third day of December? A. I read the Da-
per the next morning.
Q. Did you notice the day then? A: I
noticed the date of that day, the 4th.
Q. You remember it from the date of
that paper, do you? A. I have heard it





266
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
spoken of in court as the third day of
December -
Q. Ever heard it spoken of by anybody
else? A. Outside?
Q. Yes, sir? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever discuss the question
with Mr. Ebert? A. Yes, once or twice.
Q. Did you ask him how you should re-
member it was the 3d of December? A.
he was trying to pump me and work me
on something else.
Q. When did Mr. Ebert talk to you? A.
Yesterday afternoon.
You have been a friend and acquaint-
ance of Mr. Ebert's for a number of years?
A. Yes, sir, lived with his brother-in-law
for four or five years.
Q. For quite a number of years you have
been intimately acquainted with him?. A.
Yes, sir.
Q. He has done some business for you,
hasn’t he? A. Yes, once in a while.
Q. Do you remember a conversation you
had with him last Wednesday or Thurs-
day in the cloak room here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Wasn't that the first talk you ever
had with him about this case? A. I don’t
think it is; I think I talked with him be-
fore.
Q. Will you swear you ever talked to
him before? A. I am pretty sure I talked
to him before.
Q. Will you swear that you ever did be-
fore that? A. No, sir, I don’t know; I
Won’t be certain.
Q. In that conversation, did you say
anything to him in regard to how you
would fix the time as 7 o'clock in the even-
ing? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you not then ask him if this
clock down here in the postoffice build-
ing did not strike every hour? A. No,
sir.
Q. Will you swear to that? A. I Will
swear to that. It does strike every hour.
Q. He told you so, didn’t he? A. No,
I’.
Q. Didn't you say, “Well, I will re-
member it,” or words to that effect? A.
No, sir.
Q. Mr. McMahon is your lawyer, isn’t
heº A. He has not been for a year or
over.
Q. He has been your lawyer? A. Yes.
Q. You haven't got any law business?
A. No, sir.
Q. If you had any, he would be your
lawyer? A. Yes.
Q. He was your lawyer in this litiga-
tion which was referred to and in which
you were convicted for sending obscene
literature through the mail? A. Yes, sir.
That is about the first one that you
talked with about this case? A. What
case?
Q. This case? A. No, sir, I haven’t
spoken to that man for a year, since a
year ago last fall; the last time I spoke
to that man was a year ago last fall in
the county jail with my father.
In the conversation with Mr. Ebert
didn't you tell him that you were not
quite certain about the place in the street
or avenue? A. No, sir.
Q. You swear to that
Yes.
Q. Didn't you tell Ebert that McMahon
had taken you to the defense in this case?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Didn't you tell Ebert that you did not
positively? A.
meet that girl at all? A. No, sir, I did
not.
Q. You will swear to that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you swear that you did meet
her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you at about 8 or half
past 8 o’clock that night? A. I was down
town; I was down on Hennepin avenue.
Q. Hennepin’? A. Washington and Sec-
ond street and from there home.
Q. I thought you told us this morning
you went away up north with this girl?
A. I told you I went up as far as Fourth
avenue north with her, and met some
other parties and let her go.
Q. Fourth avenue north and Washing-
ton? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then you walked with her three or
four blocks and separated? A. She met
the other girls and she said “I will go
with them,” and I turned around and went
away.
Q. You were disappointed then in your
meeting with her? A. Not very.
Q. Where did you expect to go with her?
A. She was to go up to see this girl's
house.
Q. Was that where you expected to go?
A. es.
Q. What for? A. To get some things.
She was going away the next day.
Q. Did she go away? A. Yes.
Q. Did she come back again?
sir.
Q. Where is she now? A. She is about
90 miles south of Chicago, as far as I can
understand.
Q. Do you know what town? A. No,
sir, I have been trying to find out; I have
been about 10 days trying to find out from
a party that writes to her in this town.
Q. You did not say to Ebert you were
not certain of the place in the street, or it
was a side street? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Didn’t you state to him that you had
been there about five minutes, and this
man, sort of tall man, came up; that you
asked him the time; he looked at his
watch and said it was 5 minutes past 7,
and just then, as he looked at his watch,
the buggy came up and turned at the lamp
post? A. No, sir.
Q. That just as you did that, a short
man came behind you and touched you,
brushed you with his sleeve as he passed?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. You swear to that?
that.
Q. Did you not say to him that as the
buggy turned the woman spoke first and
said, “You are here, are you?” A. No, sir,
I did not
Q. And that you did not tell him a word
about the man asking her if she had any
that?
Q. Yes, sir.
Same Words.
Q. You swear to that positively? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have a talk with Mr. Ebert
yesterday afternoon? A. Yes; twice, yes-
terday afternoon.
Q. Did you go to his office? A. Yes.
Q. You were there waiting for him quite
a long time? A. I was there last evening
at about half past 5.
Q. Did you not ask him to go with you
up to that place? A. No, sir; he asked
me at noon, 1 o'clock.
A. No,
A. I swear to
A. I told Ebert that very




















OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 267
Q. Where was
head of the stairs in the office.
Did you ask him how you could fix
that talk? A. At the
the time as Dec. 3? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there nothing said about that?
A. There was on his part; there was not
on mine.
Q. Did you not ask him how you could
fix that time? A. No, sir.
Q: What was said; how came it to be
said 2 A. He said—
Mr. Erwin–Objected to this for impeach-
ment.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Nye-Did you not ask him how you
could fix it as the 3d of December, and
didn't he reply, “Why, didn't you serve
some papers; didn’t we have some gar-
mishee papers that day?” or something to
that effect? A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Was there anything of that kind
said? A. Yes, there was. He told me, he
says, “The way you can remember it, you
served some garnishee papers for me.” I
said, “I shall not say any such thing.”
Q. Did he ask you where you were going
to take the girl? A. No, sir.
Q. Did he not ask you that, and din’t
you tell him that you were going to take
her to “Old Kentucky?” A. No, sir.
Q. Nothing of that kind? A. He told
me last night, and I seen him at half past
5; I was waiting for him; I went around to
see some other parties and come back at
6 o'clock, and met him on the sidewalk
and he said, “Instead of going up to North
Minneapolis, to make it more pointed, you
tell that you took her to “Old Kentucky,”
and I will go down to that theater and
find out.” I said, Charley, I shall do no
such thing.” We went from that to the
West Hotel. At the West hotel he skipped
out and left me. He said, “I will be back
here in a little while with another man
and fix it up.”
Q. Didn't you understand he was inter-
ested for the defense? A. Yes, but I was
letting him work on his part, and I was
going to squeal the whole thing.
Q. Will you swear positively that you
did not say to Ebert that you did not
meet your girl that night? A. I will.
Didn't you have quite a talk with
Ebert both times concerning a short man?
A. He wanted me to claim that I saw him,
and I said, “I cannot think I saw him.”
He wanted me to claim I saw that man.
Q. Letting him in as another man that
saw you there? A. Yes. He said, “Prob-
ably you will get $50 out of this thing, and
probably you will give me $25.” I said, “I
won't go in that game.” He said, “I could
probably get $80 out of it, and you can
give me half of it.” I said I had not had
any money compensation at all.
Q. Didn't you meet a man by the name
of Phillips, a short man, in Ebert's office
yesterday? A. There was a man there; I
did not notice him and don’t know who
he was; did not speak to him.
Q. Didn't you tell him how much money
you were going to get? A. No, sir, I did
not, I was in the office last night and Mr.
Ebert was there, and Fred Ebert and a
lady and Henry.
Q. Didn't you state the amount of noney
you were going to get? A. Mr. Ebert said
"Probably you will bet $50 out of it, and
you will give me $25.”
ExAMINED BY MIR. ER WIN.
Q. Now, state to the court and jury what
Mr. Ebert said to you, what he wanted to
do, all that he said to you in this con-
versation; the first conversation you say
was last week? A. Yes, in the court room.
Q. What did he say to you on that co-
casion? A. He said–
Q. You were here to testify as a wit-
ness? A. Yes, he called me out in that
room and said, “probably they are going to
try you pretty hard, the way you remem-
ber this thing. Tell them that you served
a subpoena for me on Albert Byres, North
Minneapolis.” Says I, “Charley, I cannot
say that; I did not and I don’t know the
man; I can't say that.
Q. What else did he say in that conver-
sation? A. He said there was a subpoena.
served that day. Isays, “I know nothing
about that.”
Q. What did he represent to you about
being on the defense? A. He said he was
on Mr. Erwin's side, and was looking up
witnesses for him, showed me a lot of
witness papers, subpoenas. That is as far
as I had any conversation with him.
Q. When next did he speak to you? A.
Yesterday. About 1 o'clock, up in his of:
fice. I went there and there was a lady
sitting there. I was talking to her and
Charley came in. I went up to see about
some little business. He said “You are
just the man I wanted to see. I sent a
man after you Saturday afternoon who
wanted to see you.” He said “I went to
Harry's and Harry did not know where
you Were.
Q. Harry who? A. Harry, my brother-
in-law, and he could not tell me. w -
home all the afternoon, and on the hill
with the young folks on the street. Harry
knows where I live, is in there every day.
He said, “Come on with me,” and I started
with him; went up First avenue south to
Fourth stree, up Fourth street to Nicollet,
up Nicollet to Fifth, up Fifth to First
avenue north. He says: “There is a lamp
post there, why can’t you make that thing
this corner?” Says I, “Charley, I cannot;
it was done there, where that thing oc-
curred, and I will swear to it, by that
lamp post.” “Was it there?” “No, sir.”
“Wasn't it here?” “No, sir, it was down
there and nowhere else. I will swear to
it.”
Q. What else did he say about anybody
being there? A. He says, “I am going to
bring a man up that will swear—I will
produce him; you see him come by, a short
man named Phillips.”
Q. What did you say to him about that?
A. “Charley, you seen the man,” and I
am not going to testify to anything, to any
such stuff; I am going to tell the truth and
nothing more but the truth.
Q. What else did he say to you? A. He
kept talking along.
Q. All the time was he representing him-
self as interested in this defense? A. Yes,
sir. He said that McMahon had brought
me to you, and that you wanted Charley to
take me. He went on and went back to the
office and met a young man—he wasn’t the
man in the office, though—and gave him
his subpoena, Phillip's subpoena; and he
said, “When you go to the court room you
can give him the subpoena.”
Q. Give Phillips the subpoena? A. Yes,


268 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
the man supposed to be Phillips, some man
that walked down to the office.
Q. Give the description of that man. A.
A man I think taller than I am, thin faced,
Charley and I were talking all the way
down.
Q. Then you walked down from there to
the court house? A. Yes, was on the in-
side of the sidewalk all the way down, and
this fellow on the outside.
Q. What time was this? A. Yesterday
noon. In the afternoon. The forenoon I
was not over here at all. -
Q. You were taken sick in the court
house day before yesterday in the after-
noon 2 A. Last Friday.
Q. You had to return home and could
not be here and had a doctor? A. I had a
doctor in the court house, Dr. Martindale.
Q. We brought a doctor to you? A.
Martindale, I believe is his name.
Q. Now, what time was it yesterday that
you first met Ebert here in the court
house? A. I met his down at the office
about 1 o’clock.
Q. Then did you see him in the court
room after that? A. Yes.
Q. Where did you see him? A. Upstairs;
he said, “I want you to stay off this after-
noon; I will see Erwin and have you go
home, and you can go on the stand to-
morrow.”
Q. Then he took you where? A. He
said, “Meet me at half past 5 at my office.”
Q. Whom did you meet there at the of—
fice? A. I was there at the office and Mr.
Ebert and his father and brother was talk-
ing with this lady, and there was Henry
and another man in the other room.
Q. What talk did you have before them?
A. Was talking about evidence and want-
ed to know who was on the stand.
Q. What talk did you have with him
about your testimony, with Charley at that
time, or afterwards? A. I did not talk
with Charley; went from there to Sweet-
ser's office. Shoemaker was there, and Mr.
Sweetser stayed there awhile, and I went
back down Hennepin avenue to Washing-
ton, and down Washington I met Charley.
Q. What did he say? A. He said, “Come
up this way,” and we went up this way,
went up Third street and up Third to Hen-
nepin, and he says, “Hold on, I will go
and see what the play was on Dec. 3, at
the box office,” and went and told me “Old
Kentucky.” -
Q. What did you say to him? A. I said
“All right.”
Q. What did he say to you? A. I said,
“Where are you going now?” He said, “I
am going now to have Mr. Shoemaker ex-
plain all this to you.” He told me to go
up” –
Q. That is up to the hotel? A. Yes.
Q. Did you go up to the hotel? A. Yes.
Q. What else did he say to you on your
way up there? A. Kept talking along what
I should say and what I should not say,
and all this and that. I told him, “Charley,
I cannot say that; I cannot say anything
more than what I see, and I won't say
any more; if it was my own brother I
would not say any more.”
Q. What did you say when you got to
the hotel? A. Went to Sweetser's room
and your room and found nobody there
and came down.
Q. What time did you go to my room?
A. It must have been a little after 6.
Q. My room was locked? A. Yes.
Q. You came down stairs to the lobby
of the hotel? A. Sat there by the elevator,
and went over and told the clerk to let me
know when Mr. Erwin comes, that there is
a man that wants to see him; stayed
there quite a while. And finally I said, “I
will get him; I believe he is there,” and
went up and he was not there.
Q. You went up the second time? A.
Yes, came back and sit down awhile, and
when I went up again you were just up-
stairs, just up from supper.
Q. You had a talk with me? A. Yes, I
told you everything.
Q. Where did you go from that? A. I.
went right straight home.
Q. During these conversations, what did
Ebert say to you about money? A. He
says, “You will probably get $80 or $75 out
of this thing, and you can give me $25.”
Q. What did you say to that? A. Said
I, “Charley, I would not go on that stand
and testify false for you or any other man;
no money could hire me.” And they can-
not.
Q. What description of a man did he
Want you to put there on that side block
so he could bring him up as a witness so
as to corroborate you? A. A little short
man, a man smaller than you are, dressed
in black clothes.
Q. What is his name? A. Phillips, I be-
lieve he told what his name was.
Q. When did you first get suspicion that
Mr. Ebert had nothing to do with this de-
fense? A. Last Saturday.
Q. Did you communicate that to him at
all or let him go on? A. I let him go on.
Q. When did you first tell me or any at-
torney connected with the defense, that
you were letting him go on? A. Last night
about 7.
Objected to as immaterial. Sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I simply want to show that
this was done upon his own hook. I want
to recall Mr. Wilson. He is gone to Mis-
souri. I want to recall Mr. Wilson right
off, and I understand that he has gone
to Missouri in violation of his subpoena.
The Court—If you want to call him as
your own witness you must see that he
ie here.
Mr. Erwin–We supposed he was here;
we have him under subpoena.
Q. When did you first tell me or any
attorney connected with this defense that
you were letting Ebert go on? A. Last
night.
Julia E. Walker-
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Where do you reside? A. 1308 Clinton
avenue.
Q. Were you acquainted with Miss Cath-
erine Ging in her lifetime? A. Not person-
ally; I was slightly acquainted in a busi-
ness way. I saw her the week preceding
Thanksgiving.
Q. Could you fix the day? A. No; I
could not. I saw her in Field & Mahler's
dry goods store in St. Paul about 3:30, per-
haps a little before or after. She was talk-
ing with a gentleman.
Q. Did you see her examining goods or
trading, any business with the firm º A. I.
did not.
Q. Do you know who the gentleman was?
A.. I do not; he was a stranger to me. |







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
269
Q. Did you ever see him afterwards to
recognize that he was the same man that
you saw there? A: I did on two or three
occasions.
Q. But this was the first time that you
had ever seen him to know him? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know how the man was dress-
ed, what kind of coat did he have on? A.
A long and dark overcoat. He wore
a black Derby hat. He was about five feet
ten or thereabouts, I should judge.
Q. Was he a stout man or slim man? A.
Just about medium.
Q. About how old was he? A. Well, I
should think in the neighborhood of 40;
probably not quite so old. He had a mus-
tache and a short beard. I did not notice
the hair so much, but I should imagine it
was dark and sprinkled with gray a trifle.
I noticed the side of the head, because
when I first looked at him it was simply
the side of his face that I saw.
Q. Do you remember the color of his
mustache? A. Dark, and a trifle gray,
probably an iron gray.
Q. How far were you from him when
you noticed him? A. Just across the aisle
in the middle store.
Q. Was anyone with you?
friend, Mrs. Lowell.
How long, probably, were they con-
versing in your presence on that day? A.
Probably three or four minutes. We re-
mained there; we passed on and left them.
I saw them both again on the corner of
Fourth and Rober street. They were
crossing Robert sººt or Fourth street,
came right up to - e crossing as we start-
ed to cross Robert street.
Q. Where were they the last that you
saw of them on that occasion? A. Enter-
ing Magee's restaurant, between Fourth
and Fifth streets on Robert. I saw them
together after that as I was getting off
of an Interurban car at Gaultier street.
They were sitting in the back end of the
street car going to St. Paul.
Q. Did you see them again that day?
A. I did.
Q. At that time were you alone? A.
Yes, sir. I saw them again on the Inter-
urban car; it was coming towards Minne-
apolis. They again sat in the back end of
the street car.
Q. I will ask you what day that was,
if you can tell me? A. I cannot say; it
was before Thanksgiving, but I could not
say as to the day of the week or day of
the month.
The Court–It is all one date.
Mr. Smith—This is another date.
The Court—What day was that, before or
after? A. Before or after what?
The Court—The first occurrence of meet-
ing them that you have given here.
A. It was after.
Q. When? A. The first time I saw them
was the week before Thanksgiving. The
next time I saw them was Thanksgiving
week.
Mr. Smith—That was the last time that
you have described? A. Yes.
Q. Do you think it was before Thanks-
giving? A. Yes.
Q. This is the second time that you saw
them; it is the second day that you saw
them? A. Yes, sir.
The Court–She just said the first time
she saw them was before Thanksgiving;
the second time was after Thanksgiving.
A. Yes; my
A. No, sir, the first time was the week be-
fore Thanksgiving, and the second time
was Thanksgiving week, a day or two be-
fore Thanksgiving.
Mr. Smith–You are now describing the
second day that you saw them? A. Yes.
Q. I want you to fix the time as nearly
as you can when you saw them at the
time when you were getting off from the
Interurban car at Gaultier street; what
time in the day? A. Why, after 3; about 3
or a little after.
Q. Then where did you see them next
on that day; you say you saw them again
on that day? A. I saw them on the Inter-
urban car again, in the back part of the
street car, that time I got off; I had been
down town and was not alone.
Q. Was this man dressed as on a former
occasion, so far as you noticed? A. Yes,
sir, I think he was.
Q. Do you remember the color of the
man's eyes? A. Light, either blue or hazel.
Q. Did you speak to Miss Ging on either
occasions? A. I did not.
Q. What time was it, the second time
that you saw them on that day? A. Be-
eween 5 and 6; I think about 5:30.
Q. That was coming this way? A. Yes.
Q. Where did you get off from the car at
that time? A. Gaultier street, at my
friend's house.
Q. Did you see any money transactions
between them at any time when you saw
them 2 A. I. saw no transactions; but the
second time that I left the car, Interurban
car, at Gaultier street, after coming from
the city, Miss Ging held either a purse or
card case in her hand, and just before I
got up to them I noticed they were both
looking into the contents of the purse—she
looked up just as I got opposite, and so
did the gentleman, and she smiled a little,
and that was all.
Q. Did you ever see the gentleman which
§. have described after that time? A: I
ld.
Q. State when and where as nearly as
you can. A. On Nicollet avenue, on Sixth
Street. I think it was the day after
Thanksgiving; probably Saturday; I won't
be certain. He was standing.
Q. How long did you notice him? A.
Only a moment. I was passing up the
street and happened to glance at the side-
walk, and he stood on the edge; his back
was towards the street; he was facing me.
Q. Did you notice him at once as the in-
dividual whom you have described, whom
#. had seen several times before? A. I.
1Cl.
Q. Had you ever seen him alone before
that time? A. No, sir.
Did you overhear any conversation
during the time that you saw this man and
Miss Ging together, either words uttered
by the man or words uttered by Miss Ging?
. About the only thing that I remem-
er–
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
incompetent.
Sustained.
Q. Are you acquainted with Harry Hay-
ward, the defendant in this case? A. No,
sir, not personally. I know him by sight.
Where did you see him last before his
arrest? A. On Nicollet avenue, Saturday
evening after Thanksgiving, Dec. 1.
Q: What time in the day was it that you
saw him? A. Two or three minutes after




270 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
I saw him it was quarter of 9–in the even-
ing.
Q. Where was he on Nicollet avenue?
A. Between Third and Fourth streets, on
the right hand side going up Nicollet
a Venue.
Q. You are positive it was Harry T. Hay-
ward, the defendant in this case? A. I am.
Q. Which way was he going? A. He
was not going; he was standing.
Q. Was he standing on the sidewalk, or
was he standing in a store, where? A. He
was standing with his back to the doorway,
I think.
Q. What, if anytning, called your par-
ticular attention to Harry T. Hayward at
this time? A. My friend and myself were
walking up the avenue; we were walking
quite fast. She had several packages in
her arm; one of them slipped; it was a bag
of oranges; as it slipped the top of the
bag opened and the oranges rolled along
the sidewalk, a couple of them towards Mr.
Hayward's feet; he stooped and picked up
one or two, and we picked up the remain-
ing ones. She thanked him and he raised
his hat. That was all.
Q. Who saw you first in regard to this
case?
Objected to as immaterial.
Q. Whom have you talked to in regard
to it?
Objected to as immaterial. Sustained.
Question withdrawn.
Q. Who was the person with you at this
time? A. My friend, Mrs. Lowell.
Mr. Nye-Is she in the court room? A.
Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You are a married lady? A. I am.
Q. What is your husband's business? A.
He is a bokkeeper. His last employment
was with John Renz & Company, of this
city. He left there last spring and since
that he has been employed at book-
keeping and copying, accountaint, etc.
Q. Where is he at present at employed?
A. Not at all.
Q. How long since he has been employed?
A. I told you regularly with Mr. Renz
Q. How long since he has been employed
irregularly, since he has had employment
of any kind? A. Not since Christmas.
Q. Have you any children? A: I have
not.
Q. Is he in the city now? A. Yes, sir.
Is he at your home? A. I don't know
whether he is there this afternoon.
Q. Was he there this morning? A. I be-
lieve so.
Q. Do you know? A. Yes, he was there
at 8 o’clock.
Q. You had some business acquaintance
w:h Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Quite a considerable? A. No, sir.
Q. How extensive was it? A. Well, be-
fore I was married and since I used to
work in a dry goods store, she would come
in there.
Q. when were you married?
years ago last September.
Q. You always recognized her and have
for several years? A. Yes, whitn I see
her I always knew it was Miss Ging.
Q. She would recognize you? A. Yes,
she would know I was the lady clerk in
the store.
Q. was there any recognition at any of
A. Five
these times that you met her with this
gentleman? A. No, sir.
Q. She never bowed to you? A. No, sir,
I don’t know that we ever bowed at all.
Q. You saw her plainly in the face? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And she you? A. I don’t know that
she noticed me; I think she did though.
Q. Your friend was not with you at that
time? A. At that time, yes.
Q. Did you call her attention to it? A.
She called mine.
Q. She knew Miss Ging? A. No,
she did not.
Q. She called your attention to it? A.
Yes.
Q. Will you describe this man’s hair or
beard or mustache; was it dark, mixed
with a little gray? A. Not real dark, but
a medium brown, I should say, mixed with
gray-
Q. It impresses you as dark hair, mus-
tache and whiskers? A. Yes.
As distinct from light, if I were to
ask you whether the hair was light or
dark, would you immediately say, dark?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the same as to whiskers and
mustache? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you ever ascertain from anyone
what his business was or where he lived?
A. No, sir.
Q. Could you see what was in the purse
that you speak of 2 A. I remember see-
ing something; it looked like silver, yet I
just gave it a passing glance.
How long have you know Harry by
sight? A. Four or five years—more than
that—I knew him before I was married;
about six years.
Q. Any speaking acquaintance? A. No,
sir; I never spoke to him in my life.
Q. How do you fix the time on Saturday
night, 15 minutes of 8? A. We were walk-
ing up Nicollet avenue, and I stopped a
moment to look into Eustis Brothers’ win-
dow. My friend made the remark, “You
will have to hurry; we cannot stop; I have
got to go back to St. Paul,” and I looked
at Eustis' brass clock, and said, “Why, it
is not late, only a quarter of 8.”
Q. What time in the day was it that you
saw Miss Ging first in that store over
there? A. Along between 3 and 4; 3:30.
Q. Were you at St. Paul visiting? A.
Yes.
Q. Both weeks? A. Yes, sir.
Q. With the friend that you have men-
tioned 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. The first time you saw them there
was some day the week preceding the
Thanksgiving week in St. Paul? A. Yes,
slr.
Q. Can you give us any idea of the day
of the week? A. No, sir, it was in the
first part, and I could not say positively
which day. I think Tuesday or Wednesday
and yet I cannot be certain.
Q. Haven’t you any way of fixing in
your mind the day you went to St. Paul.
Do you know how many days you were in
St. Paul that week? A.. I don’t know
whether I went once or twice; I could not
Say.
Q. Do you know whether you went more
than twice a week? A. No, sir, I hardly
ver go more than twice a week.
Q. That week preceding will you swer
that you did not go to St. Paul more than
twice? A. Yes, sir.
sir;





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
271
- -
Q. Can't you locate those days in ref-
erence to each other and tell us which
day you saw these people the first time?
A. I could not be positive and give you the
*: Can you give me the day that you
wet to St. Paul the second time? A: No,
-
*: Can you tell whether it was Friday
or Saturday? A. I said it was before
Thanksgiving, not after.
Q. I am not speaking of Thanksgiving.
I am speaking of the week preceding
Thanksgiving? A. It was not Friday or
Saturday; it must have been earlier in the
week than that.
Q. That you went the second time to
St. Paul? A. Didn't you just say you were
speaking of the first time?
Q. You just told me you went to St. Paul
twice, the week preceding Thanksgiving.
A. No, sir, I said that I could not say:
I was positive I went once and would
not swear that I went more than twice.
Q. will you swear you went twice? A:
No, sir.
Q. Now,
Thanksgiving week?
or Wednesday.
Q. Did you go to St. Paul more than
once that week? A. No, sir, I am quite
positive I only went once that week. -
Q. Have you consulted with your friend,
or attempted by any means whatever, to
locate the day at which you first saw Miss
Ging and this gentleman in St. Paul ? A.
we have spoken of times, but never said
anything particularly about trying to lo-
cate the day.
Q. Can't you fix the day? A. I don’t
know; I could not say; I did not ask her.
Q. Haven't you talked any about that?
A. Yes, we have—about the day.
How is it that you recall so minutely
this circumstance of meeting Hayward on
the night of the 1st of December, and are
unable to give me any of the dates at
which you went to St. Paul? A. Because
it was the Saturday after Thanksgiving;
my friend was to come up on Friday, Fri-
day after Thanksgiving, and she did not
come, but she came Saturday; and the con-
cern was never open except Satudray even-
ings, on an evening.
Q. Do you remember any business you
had to transact in the store at St. Paul ?
A. Bought some little notions and one
thing and another like that.
Q. Any record of it kept in the store
that you know of 2 A. I could not say.
Q. Do you know what Miss Ging was
buying? A. She was not making any pur-
chases when I noticed her.
Q. Do you know anybody else that was
in the car when you saw them? A. I did
not notice anyone. We were passing out
of the car. They were the only couple that
I paid any particular attention to.
Q. Still, you did not recognize them,
that is, you did not speak to them or they
to you? A. No, sir.
Q. Was your trip there a visit with her,
or a business trip? A. Not particularly.
I went over and visited awhile, and we
went down the street and came back to
her house.
Q. Will you swear positively, it was
Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, one of
the three days of the week preceding
what day did you go the
A. Either Tuesday
Thanksgiving, when you were in that
neighboorhood at 4 o'clock in the afternoon
and met her in that store? A. I think it
Wals.
Q. Will you swear that it was, are you
positive? A. Yes, it must have been.
Q. Now, the week of Thanksgiving, that
was also in St. Paul, or on the cars that
you saw her? A. I saw her both places.
Q. What time in the day? A. The first
time I think it must have been about 3
o'clock, and the next time it must have
between 5 and 6.
Q. The same friend with you? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Now, you have got only three days
there to figure on before Thanksgiving?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It must have been Monday or Tues-
day of Wednesday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you tell us which? A. No, sir;
I cannot. It was either of the three days,
but I could not say which, but I think—I
don’t believe it was Monday.
Q. Will you swear it was not Monday?
A.. I will.
Q. It narrows it two days? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Either Tuesday or Wednesday or
Thanksgiving week? A. Yes, sir.
You will swear positively to that
fact? A. Yes.
Q. What is your impression as between
those two days, do you think it was Tues-
day or Wednesday? A. It must have been
either of those days to have been before
Thanksgiving.
Q. What is you impression as between
the two days, which would you quicker
think it was, Tuesday or Wednesday? A.
I should think it might have been Tues-
day.
Q. What time did you leave to go down
to St. Paul that day? A. Along about 2.
o'clock I saw them on the street car the
first time.
Q. Which street car was that? A. The
Interurban.
Q. On the same car that you went down
on 2 A. Yes, sir. I did not see them until
I was getting off. As I walked back I was
passing the people.
Q. Then the second time you saw them
where? A. Upon the car in the evening.
Q. Going back? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Thesame car you were on? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. When did you first see them then?
A. As we were getting off the car.
Q. Here in Minneapolis? A. No, sir, at
Gaultier street in St. Paul.
Q. Going over you saw them at Gaultier
street when you got off? A. Yes, I was
alone then.
Q. Coming back you saw them at the
same place? A. Yes, I got off there again;
my friend was with me.
Q. Then you saw them again as you
* back through the car? A. Yes,
slr.
Q. That was
About 5:30.
Q. Something like two hours later than
you saw them the first time? A. Yes, sir.
just about.
Q: They chanced on the same car going
both ways that you were on? A. Yes.
Q. And you chanced to see them as you
walked back out of the car each time?
A. Yes.
Q. That is the last time, and these are
about what hour? A.




272
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
the only times that you saw them to-
gether? A. Yes, those are the only times.
The man you saw afterwards, what
day was that, if you remember? A. The
day after Thanksgiving, between 5 and 6.
Q: Why are you not able to fix the day
you went to St. Paul from the day that
you saw him, the day after Thanksgiving?
A. Because the day that I left my friend
in St. Paul she said: “I will try and come
over the day after Thanksgiving, and it
was that day I went down town to meet
her and she did not come.
Q. Now, will you tell me why it is that
you connot fix the day that you took the
trip to St. Paul, which you say was Tues-
day or Wednesday—you have sworn posi-
tively why you connot fix that as accurate-
ly as you can the day atter Thanksgiving
which was the day which she said she
would come? A. For the simple reason
that there were three days before Thanks-
giving, and Friday was the day just after
Thanksgiving.
Q. There could not have been more than
two-Tuesday or Wednesday you were
down there? A. Yes.
Q. Visiting and spending a large part of
the afternoon with your friend in St. Paul?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you know that you were home
on Thanksgiving? A. I do. -
Q. And you know that the day following
you expected to meet your friend, and
went to the car line to see her, at which
º you claim to have seen the man? A.
es.
Q: Why is it that you cannot fix the
trip to St. Paul on her promise to COrne,
as definitely before Thanksgiving as you
do the visit she was to make after Thanks-
giving? A. She did not promise anything
about coming—
Q. Don't you remember as you were talk-
ing and you mentioned the subject of her
coming over here to visit after Thanks-
giving day, to come tomorrow or the next
day? A. I do not. Any more than she
said “I will be over the day after Thanks-
giving,” but she did not say “I will be over
the day after tomorrow.
Mr. Smith—You have told who your friend
was is she related to you? A. By mar-
riage, yes.
|
husband.
Mrs. Abbie Lowell
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Where do you reside? A. In
Paul, corner of University avenue
Gaultier street.
Q. You are the wife of Police Captain
Lowell? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recall a visit from Mrs. Walk-
er, at your home in St, Paul, the week pre-
ceding Thanksgiving? A. Yes, sir.
Q. State what occurred at that time, A.
Mrs. Walker came down to visit me, and
during the afternoon we went down to-
gether, and we went to Field & Mahler's
store.
(Witness here corroborates Mrs. Walker's
testimony as to seeing Miss Ging and a
man talking together in the store.
Q. Are you able to fix the time of the
visit as closely as Mrs. Walker did? A.
Well, I think it must have been in the mid-
dle of the week, but I am not sure.
Q. That was the week before Thanks-
giving? A. Yes.
St.
and
Q: What is she? A. A cousin to my
Q. Did you ever see that same lady and
gentleman again? A: I did. I saw them
as I was leaving the Interurban car to get
off at my home.
Q. Was it before or after Thanksgiving?
A. It was before.
Q. What time in the day? A. It was be-
fore 6 in the evening, between 5 and 6.
Q. Do you remember how the gentleman
was dressed upon either or both occasions? |
A. Well, when I saw him in Field & Mahl- |
er's, I remember that he had on a dark
coat, a dark derby hat. I think that
is all I remember about his clothes; he wore
a long dark coat. He was rather a tall
man, not a very heavy built man, I should
not think. He was dark complected; had a
mustache, dark mustache and dark beard,
but I think his face, I am quite sure here,
was smooth shaven.
Q. Was his hair dark, or didn't you
notice? A. I did not notice particularly,
I think it was dark.
Q. About how old a man was he? A.
I should judge he was 40; I don’t know but
What more.
Q. Did I ask you about his height? A.
Well, he was quite tall; I should not think
he was what you would call six feet; he
was quite a tall man. I should think he
weighed about 164, somewhere along there.
Q. The second time was Thanksgiving |
week, in getting off from the Interurban
car you saw him; where did you get off?
A. At Gaultier street. -
Q. Did you ever see the man afterwards;
have you ever seen him to your knowl-
edge? A. No, sir.
Did you ever see the lady, Miss Ging,
after that? A. Never.
Q. Are you acquainted with the defend-
ant, Harry Hayward, in this case? A.
No, sir.
Q. Did you ever see him? A. I saw him
once. I saw him in the evening, at the
time he picked up my oranges that I prop-
ped. It was Saturday after Thanksgiving,
Dec. 1.
Q. Have you any way to fix the time
that you saw him? A. Only that I was
quite anxious to get home, get through with
my purchases and get home, and I know
that Mrs. Walker looked up at the clock
and said it was a quarter to 9; I remember
that.
Q. You heard Mrs.
as to dropping a bag
sir.
Q. Is that correct? A. Yes.
Q. Some of them came out of the bag?
A. Yes, they did; he was standing right
near there.
Q. On which side of the avenue, going
up towards the Glass Block from Wash:
ington? A. It would be on the right hand
side.
Q. Do you see the same man in the
court room? A. I do.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye. -
Q. You remember whether the stores
were open Saturday evening? A. Yes, sir.
they were, so I went into them. -
Q. Had you ever seen Hayward before-
you passed right on? A. No, sir.
Q. You just paused long enough to get
your oranges and go on 2 A. We did.
Q. That is the only tie you ever saw
him in your life that you know of, except
Walker's testimony
of oranges? A. Yes,























of THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
273
since you same here to court? A: Yes,
sir. -
Q. Was you attention called to your
friend, Mrs. Kalker, after the murder and
suspicion upon Hayward, to the fact that
that was Hayward that she saw on the
corner and who picked up your oranges
for you- A. She said it was. She told me
that night it was Mr. Hayward. She said
he was keeping company with a lady that
we saw in St. Paul; she made that remark.
Q. That was Miss Ging she had ref-
erence to? A. Yes, sir.
Q. After the murder and after suspicion
was aroused against him she again called
your attention to the fact, didn't she, that
that was Hayward? A. She said that was
the gentleman we met, yes, sir.
Q. And with that idea firmly impressed
upon your mind through her communica-
tion to you, you recognized him when you
saw him in the court room here? A. I re-
membered his face.
Q. Are you positive that in your recogni-
tion of him you were not largely influnced
by the fact that you had it fixed in your
mind through your conversation with her
that he was the man? A. I was not in-
fluenced.
Q. I don’t mean dishonestly influenced,
but I mean the circumstance of her having
impressed upon your mind that that was
Hayward who picked up the oranges there?
A. I was not influenced.
Q. What time was it you saw these peo-
ple in the store, Field & Mahler's? A. It
was between 3 and 4 in the afternoon.
Q. Are you able to fix the time with any
definiteness? A. I am not.
Q. I believe you said to Mr. Smith you
thought it was about the middle of the
week? A. I think it was.
Q. Was there any one at your house when
you and Mrs. Walker left the house? A.
I don’t think there was, only my family;
I don't remember of anybody. My daugh-
ters were at home, both of them.
Q. Well, they were both home when you
left the house, you and Mrs. Walker? A.
Yes, sir, they were both home.
Q. Have you undertaken to ascertain
what day of the week this was? A. No,
sir, I don’t think I have.
Q. Have you not been required by the
defense to fix the day if you could? A.
No, sir.
Q. Didn't you understand that it was
necessary to make this testimony as de-
finite as possible as to the time in as im-
portant a matter as this? A. I did not.
Q. Did you understand to the contrary
that it was not necessary to remember the
day of the week? A. I had no conversa-
tion whatever upon it.
Q. Did you understand it was unneces-
sary to fix the day of the week? A. No,
sir, there was nothing said about any day
of the week, no conversation whatever.
Q. It didn't at any time occur to you
that before coming here to give your testi-
mony you had better stop and think and
see if you can ascertain ..what day that
was you first saw those people in that
store? A. I do not know that it has.
Q. And it has not suggested itself to
your mind to inquire of your daughters or
your sons—were your sons at home? A. I.
don't think they were.
Q. Well, they possibly were? A: I do
not know.
Q. well, your daughters were? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you think that you can now, on
returning to your home, inquire of your
daughters by any other curcumstances of
that week and be able to fix definitely the
time that you met these people in Field &
Mahler's? A. I do not know, but I don't
think I can.
Q. You don't think that you canº A.
Mrs. Walker comes down frequently, some-
times the first of the week and sometimes
in the latter part of the week, once or
twice and sometimes oftener in the week.
Q. Well, now, the second time, which
was Thanksgiving week, are you able to fix
that day? A. No, sir, I am not.
Q. Did she that time come to your house?
A. She did.
Q. And you and her went down town,
did you? A. We did.
Q. Right away after she came? A. Yes,
sir, right away after.
Q. Were your daughters there then at
the house? A. They were.
Q. Either of your sons there? A: I don't
think they were, but I cannot remember
about that.
Q. You can't fix the day by Thanksgiv-
ing itself, and the circumstances of your
coming over to visit Mrs. Walker after
Thanksgiving? A. I cannot.
Q. When did you talk with Mrs. Walker
and arrange or tell her you would be over
the day after Thanksgiving; you did so
state, didn't you? A. I did, yes, sir.
Q. Tell her you would be over the day
after Thanksgiving, did you not? A. I.
did.
Q. As a matter of fact, you didn’t come
the day after, but you came on Saturday?
A. I did.
Q. Is there any special reason why you
could not get over on Friday instead of
Saturday? A. I was not well Friday.
Q. Now, when and where was it, in the
course of your visiting before Thanksgiv-
ing, that you arranged to come over the
day after Thanksgiving? A. I cannot tell
that whether it was at home or not, but I
presume it was at home I told her.
Q. She got off the car and stopped to
tea.” A. She did; she stopped to tea.
Q. Well, do you think that was Monday,
Tuesday or Wednesday; what is your best
impression of it?
Mr. Smith–This is the second week?
Mr. Nye-Yes, sir, this is Thanksgiving
Week.
A.. I cannot tell—I would not say it was
not on Monday. I cannot remember.
Q. Well, Mrs. Walker is positive it is not
Monday. Haven't you any way of fixing
in your mind how long Thangsgiving was
ahead of you at that time? A. I don’t
know that I have.
Q. Is there any way you can fix it? By
conference with your family or your daugh-
tres? A. I don’t know of any way.
Q. Is there any circumstance you can re-
call that would enable you to state whether
that was Tuesday or Wednesday? A. I
don't know of any.
Q. How long since you were subpoenaed
as a witness? A. I believe it was yester-
day.
Q. You have understood for a number of
weeks, have you not, that you were to be
a witness? A. No, sir.




274 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Has not Mrs. Walker told you any-
thing about it? A. No, sir, not for two
or three weeks.
Q. Well, two or three weeks ago you un-
derstood it? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. That was a dark complexioned man?
A. It was.
Q. You ever have any conversation with
your husband, captain of the police, in re-
gard to the matter? A. I told him where
I saw Miss Ging and those circumstances,
same as I told you. I told him about see-
ing her shortly before she was murdered.
Q. Were you acquainted with Miss Ging?
A.. I was not. I never saw her until that
time.
Q. How did you know it was Miss Ging?
A. My friend, Mrs. Walker, told me it was
Miss Ging.
Q. And you are swearing it was Miss
Ging because she told you it was Miss
Ging? A. That is the only reason.
Mr. Smith–She has not sworn it was Miss
Ging; she swore that a man and woman de-
scribed by Mrs. Walker, she saw in the
store that day, as testified to by her.
Was your attention called in the
store to those people? A. It was not.
Q. Are you positive of that? A. Yes; I
spoke of Miss Ging first to the lady when I
first saw her—I was the first one that men-
tioned her.
Q. How did you come to do that? A. Be-
cause she looked very much like a sister of
mine that I lost, that died, and I told Mrs.
Walker so.
Q. And she then told you who she was?
A. She did.
Q. Did you ask her if that was her hus-
band with her? A. I did not.
Q. Were there any remarks made about
the gentleman? A. I think there was.
Q. Well, how long were you noticing the
lady? A. I didn’t know that. Perhaps two
or three moments; I don’t know as it
would be as long as that, but I looked at
her quite a while.
Q. Do you recall how she was dressed?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What kind of a cloak'?. A. She had on
a seal skin cloak.
Q. Do you remember what he had on his
head? A. He had a derby hat on.
Q. Black or brown? A. Why, I think it
was black—it was a dark hat.
Q. What time on Saturday did you come
over? A. It was in the evening I came
over. It was after 7 o'clock I left my
home, but I don’t know exactly what time
—I know I was detained at home.
Q. Well, you were returning to take the
car to go back home when you saw Hay-
ward? A. No, we were going up Nicollet
avenue. We were going up to do some
shopping further up the street.
Q. Where did you meet her? A. Hofflin's
drug store.
Q. Where had you been between the
time you met her at Hofflin's drug store
and the time you met Hayward? A. We
bought some oranges and we went into a
gentlemen’s furnishing goods' store.
Q. Well, that was all that you did,
wasn’t it? A. That was all we done, yes,
sir.
Q. How long does it take to make the
run over here from your place? A. On
the Interurban cars, I think about 40 min-
utes.
Q. Well, you had not spent more than 10
minutes after you met her? A. I could
not say; I stopped to get my feet warm
in the drug store because I was cold.
Q. It wouldn’t be any more than 10 or 15
minutes, would it? A. I think so.
Q. Then it would be just an hour from
the time you left home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you left home at 7, so it could
not have been any more than 8 o’clock?
A. Oh, it was after 8 when I got to
Hofflin's drug store, I am quite sure ofthat.
Q. Well, you left home at 7, you say?
A. Oh, it was after 7 o'clock when I left
my home, but I don’t know how much
after.
Q. Do you know how late it was when
you left your home? A. I do not.
Q. Well, you stated it was 7 o'clock,
didn’t you? A. No, sir; I did not—if I did,
I did not mean to.
Mr. Smith–No, she said it was after 7.
Q. Well, can you fix the time when you
ieft home? A. Well, I intended to leave
about 7 o'clock, but I had a caller come in,
and I was detained some time, I do not
know how long.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. What was the color of that man's
mustache you saw in St. Paul ? A. It was
dark brown. There was gray in it.
Q. I think you said you did not notice
the hair particularly? A. I did not notice
particularly what the color of his hair was.
Abbie Lowell
was recalled and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. How did you get word to Mrs. Walk-
er you could not come the day after
Thanksgiving—did you send her any word?
A. I sent her a postal card. I think I
wrote her on Friday that I would come up
on Saturday. My daughter wrote it; I told
her to write, “Mamma will be up Satur-
day.”
Q. How did you know she was to meet
you at Hofflin's? A. I told her when she
would be down, sometime during the week,
whatever day it was; we would generally
meet her.
Peter F. Martin
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Did you drive out in the vicinity of
the place where Miss Ging was murdered?
A. I rode out with a friend of mine, Mr.
J. J. Heinrich. I think it was the Thursday
after the murder.
Q. Did you find any blood spots in the
gutter away from where the body was
found, and if so, how far? A. I found
some blood in the side of the road on some
ice in a kind of a ditch there in the side of
the road. It was on the right hand side of
the road in a ditch, going out.
Q. And there had been a sort of a ditch
dug there?
Mr. Nye-I object to that as leading, and
I move to strike it out as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court—The motion is granted.
Mr. Erwin–Why, I want to prove there
were blood spots there.
The Court—Well, identify the place.
Q. How many rods was this beyond the
railroad, where you cross the railroad
there? A. Oh, it was quite a distance; I
could not tell you just how far it was. I
should say it was about 100 rods.
Q. Now, then, in reference to the houses,
where did you find those blood spots?






of THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 275
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial and too remote;
this appears to have been Thursday, three
days following the homicide; it has not
been shown how many rabbits had been
Killed in the meantime.
The Court–objection is overruled.
Q. (Last question read to the witness.)
A well, I should judge from the first
house, the rear house, it was perhaps *
rods; I could not say, I just noticed there
was a house beyond and one to the rear, to
the left. There was a blood spot there 14
or 15 inches square; it faded out towards
the edges of it, but in the center of it it.
was very plain; it was, say, six inches
square anyway, and it faded away to a
very light tint.
The Court—This was on Thursday.
A. I think it was; I am pretty sure that
it was.
The Court—After the murder?
A. After the murder.
Q: What time was this? A. I think we
got out there, well, perhaps 12 o'clock,
about 11, near 11, I think, when we started
away.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. This blood was in the ditch at the
side of the road? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember what the weather
had been? A. Well, that morning, when
we started out the sun was shining, but
it started to snow just a very little bit
afterwards.
Q: What kind of ice was this; was it ice
newly formed? A. No, it looked as though
it had thawed a little bit that day. Well,
there was just a thin scale of ice there in
the ditch.
Q. These stains, you say, were on top?
Q. Well, apparently into the ice, and as if
they had thawed the day before and frozen
up again.
Julius J. Heinrich
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Heinrich, are you acquainted
with Peter Martin, last on the stand? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. During the week of the murder, after
the murder of Catherine Ging, did you take
him to drive out after your new team, or
after your team? Is there any way by
which you could fix the time of that drive?
A: I could not do it, no, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Then we will excuse the wit-
neSS.
Lillian Birch
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Shoe-
maker.
Q. Were you out skating on the night of
December 3? A. Yes, sir. On Lake Cau-
houn.
Q. How far do you live from Lake Cal-
hounº A. About seven or eight blocks.
Q. Whereabouts were you skating? A.
Between Ewing's dock and the boat house.
Q: What time did you leave home that
evening? A. Half past 7.
Q: Did you hear anything unusual while
you were skating that night? A. About
half an hour after I got down there I
heard two shots coming from the direction
of where Miss Ging was murdered. They
were in the direction of the tamarack
Swamp.
Q. How close together did they come?
A. There were only a few seconds between
each of them.
Q. Was that a still night or a windy
night? A. It was a still night.
Q. Was there any noise around there? A.
No, sir.
Q. Could you hear the shots very plainly º
A. Yes, sir, I heard them very plainly.
Q. what time did you start for home that
evening? A. About 9:30.
Q. Did you before 9:30 hear any shots
other than the two you have been talking
about? A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. There were a great many people skat-
ing that night down there on the lake? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Laughing, hollering and having a good
time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. wasn't you over near the high bank
skating most of the time? A: Yes, sir.
Q. Then there was the distance of the
lake between you and where you heard
these shots? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You heard the shots above the laugh-
teſ of the people who were skating on the
lake? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, wasn’t there considerable crack-
ing of the ice on Calhoun that night? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Sounded like a shot, if a crack ran
across the ice you could hear it? A. Yes,
sir, you could hear the cracks.
Q: Who was with you when you heard
these shots? A. Two or three little boys.
Q. Who were the little boys? A: I don’t
know, I am sure.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Shoemaker.
Q. Did the shots that were fired attract
your attention at the time so you stopped?
A. Yes, sir; the little boys said some one
must be over there hunting at the time.
Q. Now, the long way of the lake is up
towards Lake of the Isles? A. Yes, sir.
Q. So where the tamarack swamp is is
only across one end of the lake instead of
being across the whole width 2 A. Yes, sir.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Do you know how wide Lake Calhoun
is ? A. I do not.
Q. Was not over towards where the shots
came from the longest way at that time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You don’t know what time that was
when the shots were fired 2 A. Some time
toward 8 o’clock, I know. Might have been
before 8 or after 8, I don’t know which.
Gertrude Grace Brown
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Shoe-
maker.
º How old are you? A. Seventeen years
OICI.
Q. Did you go skating on the night of
Dec. 3? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Anyone accompany you? A. Yes, sir.
Frank Springstead.
Q. At what time did you leave the house
to go skating? A. At about half past 7.
Q. Where were you going skating; what
lake? A. Lake Calhoun.
Q. Did you, while you were there that
evening hear anything unusual? A. Why,
I heard two shots, that is all.
Q. How long had you been there when
you heard those two shots? A. About 20
minutes.




2 to
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT:
Q. About how far is it from your house
to the place where you went skating, to
the place where you put on your skates?
A. About half a mile.
Q. In what direction did you hear the
shots? A. Towards the ice houses on the
Excelsior road.
Q. How long a time was it between the
shots? A. Just as quick as they could be
fired.
Q. How long did you remain skating there
after you heard the shots? A. About half
an hour.
Q. About what time in the night was it
to the best of your reccollection when you
heard the shots? A. Well, I could not say
for sure, but I think it was about a quar-
ter to 8, somewhere along there.
Q. After you had taken off your skates
and was ready to start for home did you
notice anything? A. I noticed two men
coming from the direction of the ice
houses.
Mr. Nye—Wait a moment.
material to that case.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Q. Upon what road or street were those
men walking when you first saw them?
A. On the Excelsior road, coming towards
Lake street.
Q. Now, where were those men when you
got onto Lake street, behind or ahead of
you? A. They were a little ahead of us.
on Lake street, on the opposite side from
where we were.
Q. Describe them, as near as you can,
their appearance? A. They had long over-
coats and caps on.
Q. Were their overcoats dark or light? A.
Dark.
Q. And what kind of caps? A. Well,
they were caps with the forepieces in front.
I think they were cloth caps. They were
both quite tall, one was taller than the
other, I think.
Q. And what did they do from the time
you saw them on Lake street until you
lost sight of them? Well, they walked
up the road until they got to the road that
goes over to Lake of the Isles, walked
the street.
Q. How far is that from Lake Calhoun
where the road turns out? A. I don’t
know—I think it is about a block.
Q. Is it a paved street? A. No, sir.
Q. Does it run off through the woods
to the Lake of the Isles? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did they do when they got to
that road? A. They stood still.
Q. Did you go on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were those men when you last
saw them? A. When I last saw them they
were standing still.
Q. When you passed them what were
they doing? A. They were looking at us.
Q. Did their conduct attract your atten-
tion particularly at that time? A. Yes, sir.
I noticed them because they were acting so
queer, that is all.
Q. Queer, in what way? A ...I don’t know.
Q. Tell us as near as you can what it
was in their conduct that you noticed?
The Court—What did they do and say, if
anything?
A. They didn't say anything.
The Court—What did they do?
A. Why, they were watching us.
The Court—That is what you thought was
queer, is it?
A. Yes, sir.
How is that
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. I did not understand just what time
it was when you left the lake to go home?
A. About half past eight.
Q. And you started on Lake street where
it comes out to the lake there, on your Way
home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And went direct home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when you started to go home
you took Lake street right here at the lake?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And there is a sidewalk on the right
side of Lake street coming this way? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And at that point between Lake and
Kenwood boulevard you saw these two
men? A. Yes, sir.
Q. On the opposite side of the street? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And they turned on the boulevard and
went towards the street car tracks? A.
They did not stop only at the road that
runs up to the Lake of the Isles.
Q. People were coming and going there
most of the time? A. Well, there were not
very many people. -
Q. There were a good many young peo-
ple on the lake that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Skating in the vicinity where you
were 2 A. Yes.
Q. Good many of them came from the
same part of the city that you did? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. That is, who in returning would come
over the same part of the street? A. Yes,
sir.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Did you see any one when you were
coming home with your skates, returning
home, you came up the sidewalk all the
way, did you not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, did you see any person but these
two men on the opposite side of the street
where there was no sidewalk? A. No, sir.
Q. These two men were ahead of you
when you first saw them? A. Yes.
Q. And the fact that they stopped, didn't
go further up the street, but stopped and
looked at you as you passed them, that
excited your suspicion, did it not? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as leading.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Nye-I move to strike it out.
The Court—Too late now.
Q. Now, when was it your suspicions
were excited; was it on that occasion, or
after the murder? A. Well, I don't know.
Q. Did you speak about it at that time
to anybody with you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who with 2 A. Frank.
Q. What was you talking about?
Mr. Nye-That is objected to.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m., Feb. 20, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 20.
F. W. Springsted
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Where were you on the night of Dec.
3, the night Miss Ging was murdered? A.
I was on Lake Calhoun skating, accompan-
ied by Miss Brown, who was on the witness
stand last evening. -
Q: Did you hear any shots that night?

























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
277.
A. I did. I had been skating about 15
minutes, I think.
Q. In what direction did you hear the
shots? A. Well, the way I looked at them
they were right owards the tamarack
swamp over there.
How many shots? A. I understood
there were two shots fired.
Q. Now, who left the lake with you? A.
Miss Brown.
Q. Which side of Lake street did you
take in returning home? A. The right hand
side.
Q. Describe the condition of that street
at to sidewalks. A. There is no sidewalk
on the left hand side until you get to Hen-
nepin avenue.
Q: Who, if anybody, did you notice on
that walk up from the lake? A. I met
two gentlemen walking there in the road.
Just when we got off of the ice I noticed
these two men coming from the opposite
direction that we were going.
Q. Was it before you got to the sidewalk
that you noticed the two men or after-
wards? A. I noticed them as we were
coming up to the shore on the ice.
Q. Where were these men at the time
that you first saw them? A. They were
down the road about half a block, I should
judge.
Q. Down what road? A. Well, from the
St. Louis Park car there, the ice house.
Q. That means the boulevard around the
head of the lake here? A. Yes. They were
walking.
Q. In what position of the road? A. The
left hand side of the road, awayc off one
side walking along quite fast; and they
talked to each other, no so very loud
either. They overtook us and walked past
uS.
Q. How far had you gone before these
men overtook you? A. We had just gone
across to the corner sidewalk, just about
10 or 15 feet, I should judge.
Q. Then you had crossed the boulevard
proper and struck the corner sidewalk 10
or 15 feet when these men passed you
walking rapidly, right there, and talking
to themselves, low? A. Yes, sir, they
stopped at the road that turns to go to the
Lake of the Isles. I should judge they
were four or five feet off of Lake street
down that road toward the Lake of the
Isles. I noticed after we had got off about
half a block from there, I noticed they
were gone from where I saw them.
Q. But they stood there until you passed
them, and got half a block? A. yes.
Q: Did their conduct at that time excite
your suspicion? A: I thought it was
kind of strange to see them come from the
ice house and turn down that road. That
was all.
Q: Was there any talk between you and
the lady as to the suspicious conduct of
these men?
Objected to.
Mr. Erwin—I offer to show the talk in
connection as a part of the act there; there
s * possible connection with the defend-
ºnt.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as inmaterial.
The Court—I don't know that there is
any act. Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–It is the suspicious act.
Q. You have no way of fixing the time
at all when you heard the shots; I mean
except by mental calculation; you have no
memory way of fixing the time? A. No.
sir, I have not.
Q. Before you got to Hennepin avenue
were you overtaken by a young man run-
ning swiftly? A. I was.
Q: Who was that man? A. Well, from
what I have heard I claim it was Mr. Er-
hardt, on his run for a doctor.
Q. Did this man continue to run by you?
A. He did.
Q. How far did he run, that you saw?
A. As far as I could see him, to Hennepin
avenue was all.
Q. Now, then, it was half an hour from
the time that you took off your skates
and walked up to that point before you got
to this point and saw a man running when
you heard the shots? A. It was, yes, as
near as I can fix the time in connection
with that man.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You think you got to the lake about
half past 7? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Skated on the ice how long; how long
were you on the lake after you got there?
A. We were on the lake about thrte-quar-
ters of an hour, I should judge.
Q. How long before you left the lake did
you hear the shot? A. About half an hour,
I should think.
Q. Then you heard the shot about a quar-
ter of an hour after you got on the lake?
A. Yes.
Q. Which would bring it at a quarter to
8. A. Just about, I guess; no, about 8
o'clock.
Q. According to your calculation it would
be a quarter to 8, if you got there at half
past 7, and heard it about 15 minutes after
you were skating, it would be a quarter to
8. A. I don’t know as to the calculation; I
think it was about 8 o'clock.
Q. You say you got to the lake at half
past 7? A. Yes. -
Q. On the lake about three-quarters of
an hour, and you heard the shot about 15
minutes after you got there? A. After we
had been skating about 15 minutes.
Q. If you went to skating half past 7
and heard it 15 minutes later, that would
be 7:45 or a quarter to 8? A. It would be
near 8 o’clock, yes, sir.
Q. Did you say first you skated about
half an hour? A. I think not.
Q. Were you and Miss Brown skating
close together? A. We were skating to-
gether at the time I heard the shot.
Q. Was there anything said between you
as to the direction from which the sound
canne?
Objected to as immaterial.
Objection overruled.
Exception.
A. I pointed in the direction where it
came from, yes.
Q: What did she say? A. She said it
was over that way.
Did she say it was out to the ice
house? A. I don’t think so.
Q. You heard her testimony here did you
yesterday? A. Yes, sir.
When you say you pointed that way,
don't you mean pointing in the general di-
rection of the north end of the lake towards
the ice house? A. It was northwest.
Q. Northwest would be a little to the left
of the ice house? A. Quite a good deal to
the left in the way that I stood.




278 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Do you know Erhardt? A. I did not
know him until I saw him here afterwards;
never knew him until a couple of days af-
terwards.
Q. Can you swear that Erhardt was the
man that overtook you? A. From the de-
scription of him, I can.
Q. Do you swear positively that Erhardt
was the man that overtook you? A. I
would not swear to Erhardt, no, sir; I did
not know him at the time.
Q. I want to know if you have seen him
since and are able to recognize him as a
matter of fact? A. I think I could recog-
nize the man that I met, yes, sir.
Q. Have you recognized him? A. I
would not say that; I would not swear to
that.
Q. How near, at the nearest point, did
those two men come to you and Miss
Brown? A. They were right across the
street; that is the nearest we could say
when they come to me.
Q. About how wide is the street there?
A. I should judge about 40 or 50 feet. It
was quite light.
Q. Did you see their faces? A. Yes, sir;
they went around when they passed.
Q. Could you see whether they were
young men or old men? A. Middle aged,
yes, sir.
Q. Could you see anything as to whiskers
or mustache? A. I did; mustache on one;
I think that was all I noticed, the nearest
one to me.
Q. Did the other one have any mustache?
A. I could not see that.
Q. Did their movements indicate that
they were young men? A. They walked
quite fast.
Q. What was your impression on that,
that they were young men, boys? A. No,
sir.
Q. You did not get the impression they
were old men? A. I got the impression
they were middle aged men, yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear anything they said? A.
No, sir, I did not.
Q. They were talking all the time more
or less? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether there is a road
cutting off from Excelsior road and Lake
street here and coming up to the street car
track? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Pretty well traveled track so a person
wanting to get over here onto the shore
of the Lake of the Isles could go nearer
that way? A. I think so.
Q. A less traveled road? A. No, sir, I
think it is traveled pretty well.
Q. Not so much as the boulevard? A. No,
Sir
Q. The main travel from the Lake of the
Isles comes down this boulevard 2 A. I
think so.
Q. And this cut off right here is a less
frequented road than that, isn’t it? A. I
think it is, yes, sir.
Q. Did you get the impression that they
had lost their way, and did not know
where they were, anything of that kind?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. Erwin–What impression did you get?
Objected to as immaterial.
Overruled.
Q: What was your impression at the
time that you saw these men there, and
they were acting as they did, what was
your impression? A. It looked kind of
strange to me that they would come down
that way and turn off the road to go
back just about the same way that they
Conne over.
The Court—Did you see any people skat-
ing away over on the southwest side of
the lake beyond the ice house? A. No, sir,
I did not.
Mr. Smith—That would be northwest.
The Court—Northwest, away towards the
Excelsior road there? A. No, sir, I did
not.
Mr. Nye-Were there quite a good many
people skating on the lake? A. Yes, there
was quite a number.
Q. A good deal of cracking of the ice that
night? A. Not so very much. There was a
little.
Horace L. Weld
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your business? A. I am
paying teller in the City Bank.
: Do you know Harry Hayward, the
defendant? A. I do.
Q. Did you pay out any money to him
on check in the year 1894? A. Yes, sir.
Q. About what time? A. September 1st.
Q. How much did you pay him? A.
$2,565.
Q. What character of currency did you
pay him in 2 A. I gave him all even hun-
dred dollar bills.
. How many hundred dollar bills? A.
Twenty-five.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. That was Sept. 12 A. Yes, sir.
Q. You had a transaction with him after
that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. About what time? A. He was in
three or four times after that and got
smaller bills changed for larger bills, $100
bills.
Q. Did you have any transaction with
him about the 2d of November? A. Yes,
sir. I sold him a Chicago draft for $4000.
He was in the 3d day of November and got
the Chicago draft cashed.
Q. He came to draw the draft of you
Nov. 2, $400, Chicago draft? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He paid you $400 in currency and you
gave him the draft? A. It is my impres-
sion that he gave me $1,000, fives, tens and
twenties, and I gave him six $100 bills in
return; charged him 40 cents exchange.
Q. He gave you $1,000? A. A thousand
dollars in fives, tens and twenties.
Q. And you gave him a draft for $400?
A. Yes.
Q. And the balance in currency? A. The
balance in $100 bills.
Q. And on the following day, you say,
was it, Nov. 3, he came and got the draft
cashed? A. Yes, sir. It is my impression
that it is the last time I saw him, was the
day I cashed that draft for him.
Q. Do you remember transactions prior
to that time of similar character to the one
of Nov. 2 and 3, buying a Chicago draft?
A. No, sir.
Q. The transaction of Nov. 1, in which
you paid him $2,565, you paid on Elder
Stewart's check? A. Yes, sir.
RE-RIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. What did you pay him when you paid
him the $600? A Paid him $100 bills.
Q. Then you paid him altogether 25 $100







OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
279
bills and 10 $100 bills, making 35 §100 bills
since the first of September? A. No, sir; I
d him more than that. As near as I
can remember, I should say it was between
$3,000 and $4,000. He was in three or four
times. I remember the first time after I
cashed that check he was in with three
$500 packages and wanted $100 bills, and I
should judge $3,000 or $4,000 beside the Stew-
art check that I gave him in $100 bills.
Q. Beside the Stewart check, which was
$2,565, you changed $3,000? A. Yes, be-
tween $3,000 and $4,000.
Q. From $5 and $10 bills to $100 bills? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You paid him then between $6,000 0and
$7,000 out of that bank in $100 bills in that
time? A. Yes, sir; I gave him that much
in $100 bills.
Mr. Nye-Do you state these circum-
stances from memory, or have you con-
sulted the books in regard to them? A.
No; I could not state anything in regard
to changing small money; the records would
not show that.
Q. In regard to the amount of the tran-
saction itself, the sum of money that you
paid? A. The Stewart check?
Q. Yes, sir, and the transaction later
than that which you paid? A. Yes, I have
the dates on the books.
Q. Does W. W. Hayward keep his bank
account there? A. Yes.
Mr. Erwin. Did Harry Hayward have a
note account at your bank during the sum-
mer? A. No, sir.
He deposited $700 there once? A. He
had an Elder Stewart check cashed in July,
*93; I could not tell that he had an account
there. I could not tell without looking it
up.
Q. Do you recollect his depositing in
June, '94, $700, and taking it out again in a
few days? A. No, sir, I could tell from
the record.
Mr. Erwin. I will ask you to do so.
Mr. Nye. He did not have a bank ac-
count in '94 that you remember? A. Not
that I remember.
Q. Did not have any open account? A.
No, sir.
Louise Ireland
was recalled and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. I want to direct your attention to the
night that your aunt was killed, the 3d of .
December. Now, I will ask you to remem-
ber whether Mr. Harry Hayward came
twice to your room that evening, once
about 7 o'clock, and once earlier than that—
half past 6 or 7 o'clock, and once at 7:30;
the first time he did not come into the
room; whether he did not call you to the
door and ask for Miss Ging? A. I don’t re-
member. I remember he was there at half
past 7.
Q. You knew he was there at half past
7? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would you be apt to remember if he
was there an hour before and asked for
her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recollect his coming to the
door and asking? A. No, sir, I don’t think
he did.
Q. Now, on the Saturday night previous,
that would be the 1st of December, and Mr.
Hayward you say was in your aunt's room
with you and your aunt that evening? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. What time in the evening did he come
there? A. It was a few minutes before 9
o'clock.
Q. Do you recollect that Harry went out
and met Miss Ging on the elevator and
came back upstairs with her? A. Yes, sir.
That was about 9 o'clock. It was about
9, because he came first and asked me if
she had not gone home yet, and I told him
no, and he wanted to know where she was
at, and I told him it was not 9 o'clock yet.
I remember saying that. He stepped out
in the hall and she came up in the elevator.
She came in first and he followed.
Q. How long did he remain in that room
on that occasion 2 A. I think it was until
after the elevator stopp, at 11 o'clock.
Q. I want you to tell the jury in what
manner they spent the evening; what was
his manner and what was her manner.
Did they sit down upon a lounge together?
A. Oh, yes, they sat in different positions;
changed around. -
Q. Sat near each other and were friendly
and affectionate? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Talking and chatting in low tones,
and in an affectionate way with each other?
A. Yes, sir, pleasantly,
Q. When he came to go away did you
notice her put her arms about his shoul-
ders before he went away? A. Yes.
Q. And did he then sit down upon the
lounge again and remain a few minutes
and then go away? A. No, sir.
Q. I want to have you, without describ-
ing any privacy between them—everything
was perfectly proper between them? A.
Yes.
Q. It was affectionate and with tender
regard apparently? A. It was in a friendly
Way, yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–That is what I wanted to
bring out to the jury without going into
any privacy between him and Miss Ging.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. So far as your aunt was concerned,
Miss Ireland, she was very devoted to
Harry, wasn’t she? A. Yes, sir, she liked
him real Well.
Q. Very well? A. Yes, very well.
Q. They were there until 11;might it not
have been later? A. Well, yes, it was
later than 11, because the elevator had
stopped; but I would not say exactly how
long after.
Q. That was the 1st day of December?
A. That was Saturday evening, yes, sir.
Q. You did not hear Harry say anything
about these letters that she had written
the day before? A. No, sir, I don’t remem-
ber.
Q. Or any letter that he had written? A.
I don’t remember.
Q. Nothing, then, said about it? A. Not
that I can recall.
Q. No mention of money matters? A.
No, I don’t think so.
Mr. Erwin–You did not partake in the
conversation with them; they sat there, but
they talked apart from you? A. No, sir,
we were talking together.
Q. Did you hear any talk about her have
ing a box in a vault? A. No, not that
night.
Q. Did you hear them talk Friday night?
A. No.
Q. Can you tell what you heard? A. No,
I did not hear them talk Friday night, I
think it was Thanksgiving morning; it

OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
seems to me it was either Thanksgiving
morning or Sunday morning. I am not
positive which.
Q. You heard him and her talk about the
deposit vault? A. No, sir, I did not hear
him say much about it. He asked her
about it.
Charlotte K. Hayward
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mrs. Hayward, you are the wife of
Mr. Adry Hayward? A. I am.
Q. And on the 1st day of December, 1894,
you occupied flats in the Ozark? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you know whether Mr. Harry Hay-
ward came to the door of your flat that
night and spoke to your husband? A. Only
from what I said; I did not see himself my-
self. My little child said it was Uncle Har-
ry; my husband did not mention it. I
heard the little child say, “Why don't Un-
cle Harry come in to talk with you?” It
was after supper, so it must have been
along about half past 7, I presume. I have
no way of telling the exact time at all, but
I know it was after supper some time.
Q. Well, now, your husband placed the
time at from 17 to 23 minutes of 72 A.
Well, I could not say anything about the
time, because I have no recollection of it.
Q. Well, was your clock right then ac-
cording to the standard time? A. My
clock was quite right; usually my husband
generally watched it.
Q. Did your husband go out immediately
or some little time afterwards, to your
father's? A. No, not until some little time
afterwards, because he spoke to me about
going with him, and spoke to my servant
about taking care of the little boy if I went,
and I looked at the time and it was then
about 10 or 15 minutes of 8.
Q. Well, he placed the time at from 10
to 12 minutes of 82 A. When he left the
flat?
Q. Yes. A. Well, he is more accurate
than I am in regards to the time. I say it
was a quarter or 10 minutes of 8, but I am
not accurate enough to say 10 or 12 min-
utes of 8.
Q. Well, do you recollect it was shortly
after the door bell rang? A. Yes, sir, just
a little after.
Q. Well, now, what time that night did
your husband return? A. Well, I remem-
ber looking at the clock when he returned,
and I should say it was—I know it was 9
o'clock, but whether it was five minutes
past 9 or not, I could not say; I looked at
the clock—I glanced up at the clock and I
know it was 9 o'clock.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Well, I understand you, it was quite
a few minutes from the time the little
child made the remark and your husband
did go over to your father's? A. I should
say it must have been 10 minutes—I was in
one room and soon after he came out with
the little child and he spoke of going—
Mr. Erwin–Mr. Nye, Mr. Grindall's
mother is very sick this morning, and shall
we call him now or let it go until tomor-
row.
Mr. Nye Why, if he is going to be here
in attendance it won’t make any difference.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir; he is going to be
here in attendance.
Mr. Nye-Very well, then.
Mr. Erwin–Well, you can tell him he can
go. If your honor please we will have the
defendant’s mother sworn.
Mrs. L. L. Hayward
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mrs. Hayward, you are the mother
of the defendant and the mother of Adry
Hayward? A. I am.
Q. You resided with your husband at the
Ozark Flats during the month of December
last? A. I did, on the fourth floor.
Q. Where did you take your meals on the
night of the 3d of December? A. I took
them at the dining room, at the rear of the
Ozark, known as No. 6, Thirteenth street.
Q. At what time did you go down to this
dining room in the rear of the Ozark to
supper? A. I went in there 15 minutes of
7, if I remember right—I could not tell you
to the minute. I did not go at my usual
time on account of not being well.
Q. Who was in the dining room at the
time you went in, madam, do you remem-
ber? A. I don’t remember of any one be-
ing in the dining room on account of my
going in at an unusual time. If I had
went at my usual time I would have re-
membered, but I don’t remember seeing
any definite faces. I think I remember of
seeing two faces on the far side of the
table, but I was not well and I did not con-
verse with any one that I remember of.
Q. How long did you remain in the din-
ing room after going in there? A. A very
short time. I think I went away from
there a few minutes after 7 o'clock.
Q. During the time you were there did
you see your son Harry? A. No, sir, I did
not.
Q. Where was Harry's place at the ta-
ble, his usual place? A. At my right hand.
Q. Then, while you were there Harry
was not there? A. No, sir, he was not. I
certainly was there as much as 15 minutes.
Q. Then, until about 7:05 your son was
not in the dining room while you were
there?
Mr. Nye-Wait a minute. I don't see
that an inference can be drawn—
Mr. Erwin–Well, she said she went
there—
Mr. Nye—At 6:45.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-And she said she was there
as much as 15 minutes?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-That would be 7 o'clock.
wouldn’t it?
Mr. Erwin–She said she left there after 7.
Mr. Nye-Well, don't lead the witness-
just let her state.
The Court—Yes, let her state her recollec-
tion.
Q. About what time was it, according to
your best recollection now, that you left
the dining room? A. Well, I would say be:
tween three and five minutes after 7. That
is as close as I can tell; that is what I
think. My husband went with me. We
went direct to our rooms.
Q. Now, did you see your son Harry that
evening after you had been to supper? A
Yes, sir, I did. I saw him when he camº
in, as I supposed, from his dinner. He wº
in my parlor at the Ozark. It was after º
minutes after 7. It was past that time, be:
cause I had just sat down and comment
to read. -
Q. who was there when he came in? A:
My husband.



















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
281
Q. state, now, what he did and what fixes
this upon your memory? A: Well, he came
ºn and I looked up and said, “You was not
at dinner when I came away º' And I
don't know all the words he said, but he
said, “No, but I am here, and what are
you reading?” he says—no, he said, “What
is the news, what are you reading?” I said,
I am not reading the news.” He said
what is it?” I said, “It is the Ladies'
Home Journal.” That and something that
followed is what makes me remember.
Q. Well, what is it that makes you re-
member? A. And it was called back to my
mind so early the next morning.
Q. State what that is? A. I looked up at
him and I said, “You are dressed up, are
you going out-going to the opera.” He
said, “No, I don't know that I am,” as I
remember, I am not positive about that.
But what he said later is impressed upon
my mind and always will be.
Q: What was that he said? A. He said,
“Are you going to have company,” or going
out tonight—something of that kind, to in-
fer whether I was to be in or not? I said
I expected to be in; I am not very well to-
night.” I said, “Are you going out?”—I re-
peated the question, “Are you going to the
opera” He said, “I don’t know as I am,
not as I know of,” he says, “I am not go-
ing out now.” Well, I said, “Why don't you
stop?” “Well,” he said, “I am going up to
the fifth floor,”—he did not say where he
was going, and he said, “I am going up on
the fifth floor,” he said, “You may have a
caller tonight.” And then he went out.
Q: What do you understand by that?
Mr. Nye-I don't see that it is very ma-
terial.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if this—
Mr. Nye-Well, go ahead, I will withdraw
the objection.
Q. What did you understand by that,
madam, that you may have a caller? A.
Well, when I heard him going up stairs
in a hurry I thought I might have the
same caller I had before the middle of No-
vember, Miss Ging, that is what I thought,
although he did not say so; he said, “You
may have a caller.”
Q. Now, had Miss Ging called at your
rooms with him before? A. Yes, sir she
did, a number of times. The last time I
remember of was before the middle of No-
vember, she came into my room and sat
quite a little bit with him and Mr. Hay-
ward and myself.
Q. Now, did you see your son again
that night after he went out saying he
was going up on the fifth floor? A. Yes,
sir. I did.
Q. How long after he went out, or what
time, if you can fix it, did you see him
again? A: I don’t know just when he
went out, but I will tell you the conversa-
tion that passed between us, or I have told
you, and he went out and when he came in
again he came alone.
Q. Yes. A. And the conversation that
passed between us was: I said, “Are you
back again so soon?” I was surprised to
see him, because I didn’t think a caller
would come later than that—that is what I
remember distinctly. I says, “Are you
back so soon?” He says, “Yes,” and he
started to the glass and stood up in front
_
of the glass a few moments and brushed
his hair and put on his hat and adjusted
his cravat, or something, and I picked up
my magazine. I had not laid it away; I
had it on my lap, and I think as he went
out I said something about staying,
“Aren't you going to stay?” I don’t re-
member that he made any reply, and I
looked at my time, because I had been in-
terrupted several times in my story, and
I know what time it was.
Q. What time was it, madame? A. As
near as I can remember, when I looked at
my time it was 20 minutes of 8.
Q. Was your husband present during
this time? A. Yes, sir, he was lying on
the couch.
Q. Did he take any part in the conversa-
tion, or hear it? A. I don’t know; I don't
think he heard it, because he had been
lying down since we came back from din-
ner, and he usually falls to sleep very easy
when he is lying down.
Q. Did you see your son Adry on that
evening? A. I don't remember that I did.
Q. State to the jury, please, how your
son was dressed, and whether he was
smoothed out and arrayed with some neat-
ness, more than usual? A. I thought he
was dressed to go to the opera, from the
manner he was dressed, that is why I
asked him if he was going to the opera or
going out tonight, and if I remember his
reply, he said he was going out probably,
did not know for certain. The impression
that he was not settled what he was going
to do.
Q: What kind of a hat did he have on,
madam? A. The hat that he usually wears,
a black derby hat.
Q. Well, I show you a black derby hat
which your son now wears? A. I hardly
remember of seeing him wear any other
kind within the last two years; I hardly re-
member, except that I might have seen
him with a white panama on his head for
a few minutes.
Q. Did you ever see him wear a brown
derby A. I do not believe I ever did; I
can't remember.
Q. Now, after your son went out the
second time, did you see him or make and
effort to see him, or go to his room, any-
thing of that kind that night? A. I did
not make any efforts to see him that I
know of. I made an effort—I did not ex-
pect hardly to see him; but I went to his
room to get some ink later on in the even-
ing, after I had finished my reading and
commenced to write. I went down to his
room, to his flat, to get some ink, but the
door was fastened. I tried the door near
the elevator, and then I went to the front
door, and there I rang the bell; I did not
know but what he had retired and would
probably come to the door if the bell was
rung.
Q. Did you try that door? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And both doors to his room were
locked 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what time was that? A. That
was after 8; half after 8. It was before half
after 9.
Q. Mrs. Hayward, have you ever known
yourself of any insane persons in your
family? A: I have known of them by being
told of them.
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as incom-





282 OFFICIAL STENOG F APHIC REPORT
petent, irrelevant and immaterial, at least
until it is shown that some particular per-
son connected with this case was insane.
The Court—Well, at the present time it
is. I will sustain the objection. I don't
* any foundation has been laid for it
yet.
Mr. Erwin-I am proceeding to lay the
foundation.
The Court—Well, that is not the proper
way to lay it.
Mr. Erwin–The whole question of insan-
ity is a question of personal history—
The Court—I know it.
Mr. Erwin–And bringst in issue when
that question is raised–
The Court—That question has not been
raised in this case yet, though.
Mr. Erwin-Well, I raise it, your honor;
I am about to raise it now.
The Court—Well, who is insane?
Mr. Erwin-I am raising that question
to show that Adry Hayward acted under
a delusion when he went to Mr. Stewart,
and at the time he testified, testified truly
under a delusion. -
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin-Exception noted.
Q. You have heard family talk, have
you, of insane ancestry? A. Yes, sir.
Q. On which side of your family, your
father's or mother's side, have you heard
talk in the family of insane ancestors?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial. I don’t want to
be captious, but it seems to me evidence
ought to be offered here that Adry is in-
sane—lay the foundation.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir; I am offering it.
This is the only way it can be offered.
Mr. Nye-Well, I don’t think you can
come to it in that way.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Suppose he is insane; then what?
Mr. Erwin–Then his credibility is in is-
sue before this jury.
The Court. So far as his competency to
testify as a witness is concerned, it is for
this court to determine; the court has de-
cided once that he is competent to testify,
and there was no other evidence tending to
show his incompetency except his appear-
ance on the witness stand as a witness.
There was no offer at that time to prove
that he was incompetent to testify as a
witness, and the rule of law, as I under-
stand, is well established in this, that even
an insane witness is competent to testify,
that is, a witness who is insane upon cer-
tain subjects, monomaniacs, and I cannot
see how it is material at all in this case, to
show that there was any insanity in the
family.
Mr. Erwin. We offer it to impeach the
credibility of the witness, having offered
to show it in the beginning, when the court
ruled it out without permitting us to make
our offer good at that time.
The Court. Well, you did not ask it.
Mr. Erwin. Yes, sir; your honor said the
witness was no more insane than the attor-
ney, and I took exception to that remark.
The Court. Yes, sir; it was a question for
the court to determine and not for the jury.
Mr. Erwin. Well, I hold the court did not
determine it.
The Court. I did, upon the evidence you
produced, and that is the appearance of the
witness upon the stand, and there was no
other evidence.
Mr. Erwin. I gave notice at that time.
your honor, which sufficiently protects ºne
to introduce this evidence at that time, at-
tacking it upon the ground of credibility.
We are not proceeding against competency
now ; we are proceeding against the credi-
bility of the witness at this time and that
is a question for the jury and not for the
court.
The Court. Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin. Exception noted.
Q. How near to you, in point of degree,
were any of these insane relatives?
Mr. Nye. The same objection.
The Court. Same ruling.
Mr. Erwin. Same exception, your honor.
Q. From what persons, whether father or
mother, did you hear this talk? A. From
my mother’s side.
Mr. Nye. The same objection.
The Court. The same ruling.
Mr. Erwin. Same exception.
Mr. Nye. I ask that the answer be strick-
en out.
The Court. I did not hear the answer.
Mr. Erwin. Neither did I.
Q. How old were you at the time you
heard talk from such persons in your fam-
ily in regard to the insanity of ancestors?
Mr. Nye. Same objection.
The Court. Same ruling.
Mr. Erwin. Same exception.
Q. Has your son Adry acted in a strange,
peculiar manner, during his boyhood and
early manhood 2
Mr. Nye. Same objection and objected to
as leading.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin. Exception noted.
Q. Please state if there ever were any
strange or peculiar actions in your son
Adry, state them fully to the jury, giving
time, place and circumstances, and what
was done for him in that regard? A. They
were very strange to me—seemed very
Strange.
Mr. Nye-Wait a minute. Objected to
as incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial
and no foundation laid.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. State upon what you know and what
you have testified to in answer to these
questions; give your opinion whether at
times your son Adry has or has not been
insane, and state at what time?
Mr. Nye-Same objection.
The Court—Same ruling.
Mr. Erwin–An exception, if your honor
please.
Q. You may state whether or not at the
time of your son's courtship with his pres-
ent wife you know anything about his
strange and peculiar actions growing out
of jealousy in regard to attentions paid to
her by other gentlemen suitors?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant, and immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Please state to the jury whether your
son has been overpowered by unreasonable
fears at any time, and give all the circum-
stances connected there with 2
A. I think he has, a good many times.
Mr. Nye-Wait a minute. Objected to as
incompetent, irrelevant, immaterial and
leading.
The Court—The objection is
sustained























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
283
and the answer may be stricken out and
the witness will not answer until the court
has passed upon it.
Mr. Erwin–Exception. Do not answer,
Mrs. Hayward, until the court has ruled
upon these questions. I have to lay a
foundation here, and you must not answer
until they have time to object. This is for
the purpose of making up a record.
Q. State what treatment was given by
you or your husband to your son Adry,
during the time he was afflicted with these
unaccountable fears, and under whose ad-
vice, what physician’s advice you made
that treatment, if any?
Mr. Nye-The same objection, and also
being too indefinite, too remote as to point
of time.
The Court—The same ruling.
Mr. Erwin–Same exception, if the court
please.
Q. State up to what time—what was the
last time that those unaccountable fears
were noticed by you in your son's life?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant, and immaterial, and assuming
facts not shown by this or any other wit-
ºnes S.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted. One ques-
tion is predicated upon the other.
Q. You may state whether during last
summer your son Adry left the city without
telling you or any of his relatives, so far as
you know, where he was going, and re-
mained away for several weeks, and also
state whether or not you know what fears,
or what reasons he assigned for his so do-
ing?
Mr. Nye. Same objection. It seems to me
now from the court's ruling if there is any
offers to be made further, they might be
made in writing.
The Court. Well,
tained.
Mr. Erwin. Exception noted.
The Court. I don’t know how far counsel
is going to proceed.
Q. Well, now, I will ask the question, did
your son Adry leave the city last summer?
A. I think he did after the 22d of August.
He was then living at 1806 West Thirty-
second street.
Q. Immediately prior to his leaving the
city, or shortly before, had he had any
trouble with his father?
Mr. Nye. Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relvant and immaterial.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin. Exception.
Q. Immediately or prior to that time had
he had some trouble with Harry Hayward?
Mr. Nye. Same objection.
The Court. Objection overruled. Answer
that yes or no, if you know.
A.. I cannot answer that question by yes
or no; I cannot answer it that way.
Q. Well, during September or October?
The Court. Some of these questions were
put to Adry, and I suppose they were put
for impeachment purposes, and you will
have to be confined to the rule and call her
attention to questions put to Adry.
Mr. Erwin. Yes, your honor.
Q. In September or October did your Son
Adry have some trouble with your son
Harry?
Mr. Nye. I don't make any objection to
that question, if she can answer it yes or
ºlo
the objection is sus-
The Court. If he can show any feeling
-
between Harry and Adry, then you can
answer the question yes or no.
The Witness. I cannot answer that ques-
tion by yes or no—I shall have to say I
think he did; that will have to be my an-
Swer.
Q. What means of information have you?
A. Remarks that my son made when he
would come home.
Q. Which son? A. Harry.
Mr. Nye. Well, that I object to.
Mr. Erwin. Well, we do not claim that
is competent, Mr. Nye. If your honor
please, as you confine us to the questions
asked, it will take some time to look up all
these questions in this record.
The Court. Well, you will find it in THE
TRIBUNE; those impeaching questions
were published in THE TRIBUNE on Feb.
12
Mr. Erwin–Yes, your honor, but I have
a full record here.
The Court—I did not know but what that
would assist you.
Mr. Erwin–As I was going to remark, it
is about 15 minutes of 12, and I think we
can expedite matters by letting the jury
go and look this matter up.
The Court—Is there any other matter
you can go on with ?
Mr. Erwin–No, your honor; that is all
With the Witness.
The Court–Have you any other short
witness?
Mr. Erwin–No, sir, I have none. Mr.
Sweetser is having some people subpoenaed
this morning and we do not know who he
has subpoenaed. I will take the testimony
and make an annotation of these questions,
so I will not have the court delayed by my
looking it over in court, if we stop now.
The Court–We will not take a recess
until 2 o’clock this afternoon.
Court here took a recess until 2 o’clock
p. Im.
AFTERNOON SESSION, FER. 20.
L. L. Hayward
Examination resumed by Mr. Erwin.
Q. On the 7th day of October, 1894, in the
flat in the Ozark flats, did your son Adry
swear at you and at his father, and threat-
en to kill you, abuse you, and went out to
his room and got a revolver; anything of
that kind 2
Objected to as immaterial, incompetent
and irrelevant.
Sustained. Exception.
The Court—I think the questions on this
examination should be confined to the dif-
ficulty between Adry and his brother
Harry.
Mr. Erwin—I will read the question I
refer to. “Q. On the 7th day of October,
1894, weren't you out of your mind? A.
There is a question—I am unable to say
myself. I might have been.” Here is a
* admitting of being crazy on that
aly.
The Court—That isn't the question you
read.
Mr. Erwin–Here is the question.
(Reads from Adry's testimony heretofore
published as to the difficulty between him-
self, his father, mother and Harry at the
time the latter claimed Adry had robbed
his father and when he sneeringly asked
him: “Why don't you give father the
money?”)
Mr. Erwin-I want to offer to prove that


284 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
these were not the occurrences.
The Court–Call her attention particularly
to it. If you want to call her attention to
anything that he testified to particularly,
do it; but it must be done in that way.
Mr. Erwin–On the 7th day of October, on
Sunday, did you go to Adry's flat? A. I
did. I said, “Adry won't you come up into
my flat in about 20 or 25 minutes, when the
domestic finishes my room? I want to talk
to you.”
Q. What did he say? A. I don't remem-
ber that he said anything. I think if he
said anything it was “All right, I will be
up.” If he said anything; but I don’t re-
member that he said anything. He did
not hesitate in any way that I could per-
ceive in coming up to talk with me.
Q. Did you ask him to come down and
talk with his father and with you? A.
With me. I wanted to talk with him. I did
not expect he would see father in the
going up if he had wished, until the time
I told him he would not have met his
father.
Q. Now, when he came down to your flat
what was the conversation between you and
him?
Mr. Nye That is certainly not impeach-
ing. It is not calling attention to it.
Mr. Irwin–I call attention to the whole
subject matter.
The Court—I think I will let the witness
state.
A. He came into my room about four
minutes after I left him, I think it was; it
might have been five. He came in quite
hurried and excited, and walked from the
front parlor to the back parlor and sat
down in the presence of father and myself
and Harry. Harry was lying on the lounge
and I was very much perplexed to think
that he had done so, for I did not want
him up in the presence of any one but my-
self when I talked to him. But he came in,
and the moment that he sat down—I don’t
know but before—he commenced the con-
versation. He seemed to commence the
conversation at his father, looked at him;
and he turned at me and says, “I suppose
you are going to turn right with Harry and
father in this, are you?” I said nothing,
only looked at him. He says, “You have
always said that I was honest and straight
with you in business,” and then he looked
at his father, and he says, “It is you that
accuse me of dishonesty.” I says, “Adry,
be quiet; I want to talk with you after
a while; it is not time to talk now; the do-
mestic has not yet left the room; wait until
she is gone.” He paid no heed to it, and
talked louder and stronger than ever when
I told him to be quiet. I says, “Don’t talk
so loud; keep quiet.” I said, “Don’t swear
so, I don’t want to hear you; won't you be
quiet?” He turned to me, and then he
threw insinuations on me and his father
resented it.
Q. Did he speak insulting things to you,
without mentioning them? A. Yes.
Objected to.
Mr. Erwin–The question was did he
swear at her and go to his room and get
a revolver.
The Witness—I asked nim quietly if he
would not go out of the flat and wait until
he could talk to me. I thought that would
give him a chance to get quiet and be
himself, for I had nothing hard to say to
him. I wanted to induce him; I
asked him if he could go. He said,
"No, I will not.” And his father told
him he should go; he should not
accuse his mother so. He said, “I will
not allow it.” He said, “I will resent it
with my life before I will allow such talk
as that to your mother.” Harry said: “Go
out, don’t you see how father is?” He
said: “I will not go out; I will not go out.”
His father told him to go; and he started
towards the door. Harry said: “If you
don’t go out, I will put you out.” He start-
ed through the front parlor to the door,
and Harry went a few steps towards him.
and he left the room.
Q. Your husband heard what he said to
you? A. I think he did.
Q. What were the insinuations against
your character? A. I did not understand
what he meant. I knew it must be some-
thing dreadful from the expression that he
put into his face and the scorn that he
put into his face when he said it. I never
thought what it was until it was all over
* and I got my husband's meaning of
t.
Q. Now, I want to ask you if at any time
after this occurrence he had a talk with
you as to whether he remembered having
said so, or whether he was out of his
mind, anything of that kind, at any time,
to this date? A. I think when he was at
St. Paul he referred to the trouble he had
with me that Sunday morning once. When
I had asked him a question why he had
not done so and so, he says: “Well, you
know that trouble that I had with you.”
I think he said, “that Sunday morning, is
why I did not tell you.” I think that is it.
Q. He referred to the trouble himself?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he ever tell you that he was out
of his mind at that time? A. Not on this
occasion, I don’t think he did.
Q. Now, as a matter of fact, did Harry
say to him: “Why don't you give him the
money; you have it? Why don’t you give
him the money? You know that you have
the money,” or anything like that in the
conversation? A: I cannot remember that
Harry said anything, except that he
laughed when Adry got so enraged, he
laughed, and I know he said, “Get out of
the flat, Adry, go out. Don't you see how
father is?” That is all I remember of
Harry saying to Adry.
Q. Did Harry say to him on that oc-
casion: “You go out of this flat, or I.
will get a knife and rip you up?” A. I.
heard nothing of that kind.
Q. Now, how did Adry look and act on
that occasion? How were his eyes? What
was his appearance? What was his pallor?
How were his hands? How did he act?
Describe him physically.
Objected to as incompetent, immaterial
and irrelevant and not an impeachment of
the witness.
Objection sustained. Exception.
Mr. Erwin–I offer it as laying the
ground work for part of the proof of his
insanity.
The Court—When 2
Mr. Erwin–Insanity at that time and at
the time he was on this stand.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. In your opinion, from what you have
testified to and from what you saw of him.













OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
285
there, was he at time or not insane.
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial. No foundation laid.
objection sustained. Exception.
In a conversation with you at the
Ozark in the latter part of August, do you
recollect that Adry told you that his
father was in the habit of going to certain
disreputable houses and told you what the
people said of his father?
Objected to as incompetent,
and immaterial.
Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–The witness Adry denied it.
Mr. Nye-It is an impeachment of him on
an immaterial matter.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I offer now to prove that in
the latter part of August Adry Hayward
went to his mother—
The Court—You have offered it.
Mr. Erwin–I offer it now not as im-
peachmen, but I offer it as primarily a
portion of the proof of past and present in-
sanity; part of my case.
The Court—So far as this question of in-
sanity is concerned, your testimony will
be confined to his testimony in relation to
his dealings with Harry, and the conversa-
tions that he had with Harry, to which his
attention was called while he was on the
stand, and outside of that it will be ex-
cluded.
Mr. Erwin–I except to the court's ruling
on this particular offer. I offer to prove
that at the Ozark in the latter part of Au-
gust Adry told his mother that his father
was in the habit of going to certain houses
of ill-fame and told her what other people
said of him. And offer to have the witness
describe the manner and appearance of
Adry at that time, and as a part of the
proof of his insanity at that time, and at
the time that he was upon the witness
stand.
The Court—The question of his sanity or
insanity must be confined to the talk to
which you have called his attention, and
to which he has testified.
Mr. Erwin–That is what I want.
The Court—That was not connected with
the transactions between him and Harry.
Mr. Erwin–It is connected with the in-
sanity.
The Court—He might have been insane
a dozen times upon some subjects. The
question is whether he was insane on the
subjects talked about which are in issue
in this case.
Mr. Erwin–That is what I am endeavor-
ing to show. I want to make my record of
it correctly to that extent. What is the
objection?
Mr. Nye-Same objection, and no foun-
dation laid.
Objection sustained. Exception.
Mr. Erwin–Now, I will ask you whether in
the city of St. Paul, since his arrest, Adry
has not stated to you that this was a de-
lusion, and he did not know where he got
it from, this accusation against his father.
Objected to as irrelevant, incompetent
and immaterial and no foundation laid.
Sustained. Exception.
The Court. I will permit you to call his
attention to any of his testimony concern-
ing his relations with Harry and show his
mental condition at that time, and his act-
º and all of it, but it must be confined to
at.
Mr. Erwin. I will ask you whether dur-
irrelevant
ing September, 1894, while Adry was living
at the Ozark, if he did not accuse his par-
ents of attempting to get in his room?
Same objection, same ruling; exception.
Mr. Erwin. I offer it as the basis of in-
sanity.
The Court. I think the court has stated
plainly its position in reference to this mat-
ter, without taking up any more time.
Mr. Erwin. I have got to put my whole
case of record in order that the supreme
court can see it.
The Court. The court requires some con-
sideration here. You are not expected to
sit here day after day and put questions
that you know the court has ruled out by
its general ruling in this case. If you will
confine your questions, and take an excep-
tion to the ruling of the court, it seems to
me that that would be all the care that
you would need to have.
Mr. Erwin. Your honor rules that I may
ask him as a matter of impeachment any-
thing that she asked him.
The Court. I have said that you may
call her attention or any witness’ attention
to all the testimony that Adry has given
on the trial in connection with his dealings
with Harry; and the condition that he was
in ; the appearance that he had, and the
condition that he was in at the time that
these transactions took place, to which he
has testified. But you must confine it to
that. And I will rule it out as to all mem-
bers of the family and anybody else, unless
it was connected with Harry. I think that
covers the whole question.
Mr. Erwin. I will ask the witness one
more question which covers her knowledge.
Didn't your son Adry leave the city in Sep-
tember and not tell any one of your family
where he was going, and upon his return
say to you that a traveling man whom he
did not know said to him, “Young man,
you have had trouble, but your troubles
are over,” which so impressed him that he
came back to Minneapolis and had his life
insured 2
Same objection; same ruling; exception.
Q. And in that connection did he not say
that this man was constantly following him
about, and that he was careful all the time
not to let the man get in a position to get
an advantage of him, and did he not say
that no one else had noticed it, and that
the man looked like a Minneapolis bum, or
someone trying to have him done up?
Mr. Nye. Same objection.
The Court. Isn’t that ruled out?
Mr. Erwin. Yes.
The Court—I shall not permit those that
are ruled out to be asked.
Mr. Erwin–I offer it now as primary in
my CaSe.
The Court—I have not changed my mind;
I rule it out.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
The Court—You can consider all this of
fered that I ruled out before.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Now, did you ever hear your son Adry
make threats of violence to Harry? Yes,
sir, I have, at different times.
Q. When, first, if you remember? A. A.
number of years since.
Q: What violence did he threaten? State
what he threatened.
Mr. Nye-When was this? If it is too
remote I want to object to it.
Mr. Erwin–We are going to continue it
right down.





286
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
-
The Court–We will let you state the
time.
Mr. Erwin–What time was it? A. With-
in five years.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as too remote.
The Court–Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–What were the
madam?
A. To get ahead of him.
Q. State what was said and in what
way. A. “I will fix him; I will head him,
the way he is treating me, never mind; he
can’t treat me in that kind of a way.”
Q. “I will get ahead of him; I will fix
him”—those are the words? A. Yes, sir,
it was a common conversation with him,
speaking of his brother when he was angry
and enraged at him.
Mr. Erwin–I asked the witness Adry this
question: “I asked you whether you had
a talk with your mother in Ramsey county
jail, upon the subject of your being pro-
tected by the authorities?” He replied, “No,
I have never said any such thing to any-
body.” I will ask you, Mrs. Hayward, on
the occasion of your visit to him at the
Ramsey county jail, did Adry say to you
that the authorities had promised to pro-
tect him through this murder case? A. He
told me three different times of that; three
different visits he told me; and assured
me not to be fearful of him.
Q. What did he say in that regard? A.
I said, “I am so afraid, you are so fearful,
and you keep yourself here; you have not
been arrested; why don’t you come away?”
I says, “Tell me, your mother, is not there
something of the kind connecting you in
some dreadful thing?” He said, “No,
mother, nothing; I know they cannot. The
authorities have promised to protect me,”
were the words he said. He stated it
through everything, and when I went
again. I asked him the same question; I
said, “Won't you have a lawyer to advise
you?” He said, “I don’t need any. Stewart
says if I need one I shall have the best,
even the best that Europe affords, but I
don’t need one.” “Why won’t you come
out,” I says. He told me, “Why, if you
want to know”—
Q. What, did he tell you why he would
not come out?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained. Exception.
At this point Mr. Erwin went up to the
court and made the following order pri-
vately to the court without the hearing of
the jury:
Mr. Erwin–I offer to show that he said
to his mother on these occasions that the
reason he did not come out was because
they would give false evidence against him,
and they would bring him before the grand
jury in case he came out, but if he did not
come out this cales would not be brought
before the grand jury.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaerial.
Objection sustained. Exception. -
Mr. Erwin–Did you see letters written
from your son to either you or your hus-
band when he was in California, or to Dr.
Hayward, during the time that he was in
California, stating in effect—
The Court—That has been ruled out.
Mr. Erwin–I want to put it on record.
The Court—You have it on record and
have an exception to it.
threats,
Mr. Erwin–In manner and form as stated
in the questions to Adry?
The Court—Yes, sir, all of those.
Mr. Erwin–I offer generally to put it on
record, I now put on the record all matters
which I have omitted to put on the record
touching the insanity of Adry, and the
phenomenon of insanity, as asked him, and
which was excluded by the court; and take
an exception your honor's ruling that it
has sustained the objection of immaterial
and irrelevant.
Mr. Nye-Incompetent, and no foundation
laid.
CROSS-EXAMINATION,
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Mrs. Hayward, I have but very few
questions. Calling your attention to the
night of Dec. 3, what impresses on your
memory the circumstance of your writing,
the lack of ink; what calls that to your
memory? A. Because my letter was not
finished, one thing that calls it to my mem-
Ory.
Q. You always had ink in your room? A.
I have a small writing tablet that holds a
thinbleful or two of ink, and I filled that
from a large bottle. That is the only ink
We have in our flat.
Q. The large bottle, isn’t that kept in
your room? A. It is kept on a business
table in Harry's flat, Harry's room, wher-
ever that is, where the key is, and the pa-
pers and the different things that are used
about the block.
Q. Who took care of your room mainly;
what domestic? A. The woman that took
care of them at that time was Julia Blixt.
Q. Blixt's wife? A. Yes, sir.
Q. She had occasion to be in the room
how many times a day, generally? A. Her
customary visits were early in the fore-
noon. One in a few weeks, perhaps, she
would be there again through the day
some time, to do extra work that she did.
It was her habit to come regularly every
morning early in the forenoon.
Q. How many rooms had you in your
suite? A. Three chambers, dining room
and kitchen, and two parlors.
Q. In which room did you keep the ink?
A. In my back parlor. You mean ink I
used for the tablet?
Q. Yes. A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you other ink in your room? A.
No, sir
Q. None whatever. A. No, sir, never
had any. I always went to their business
bottle to fill my well.
Q. Any other families or persons occupy-
ing that floor? A. Mr. Getty and family.
Q. Were Mr. Getty's people at home at
that time? A. I don’t know; I suppose
they were.
Q. You were acquainted with them? A.
I have met Mrs. Getty several times. I
have called on her and she on me.
Q. Why didn't you go in there for ink
instead of going down to the first floor?
A. Because my ink was at the first floor,
the reason I went where I always filled
my well.
Q. Had you started to write your letter?
A. I think I had perhaps half a dozen
lines or more on a piece of business paper.
Q. Are you positive you had written
any? A. I know I had written.
Q. To whom was it written? A. To my









of THE HAyva RD MURDER TRIAL.
287
sister. She lives in the southern part of
the state of Kansas.
Q: Did you finish your letter that even-
ing? A. No, sir, I did not finish my letter.
Q. I understand you tried both doors?
A. I did, and found them both locked.
Q: Did you notice what time that was 2
A. It was after half after 8. It could not
have been later than 9 o'clock or 10 min-
utes after. I don’t think it was 9, but I
don’t know that.
Q. You did not expect to find him this
evening when you went down? A.. I don’t
know that I thought anything about it.
when I went to the front door I rang the
bell; I though he was there.
Q. Isn't it your opinion that it was quite
a common thing for him to leave his door
unlocked when he was out? A. No, sir, I
thought he usually kept his door shut.
Only the one time that I can say sure that
I ever found that door open when he was
not there, the evening I think that he
moved his things into the flat from the
flat above or across the hall. That was
the only time.
Mr. Nye-This unpleasant matter, on Sun-
day, the 7th of October, was one in which
there was considerable temper used all
around, more on less, around there; not
with yourself in particular, but with the
old gentleman and his sons? A. No, sir;
Adry was very much enraged.
Q. Wasn't Harry very much enraged? A.
I don't think he was angry at all from the
way he acted.
Q. Wasn't Mr. Hayward quite angry,
quite excited? A. He was angry when Adry
accused me, put censure against me; then
at that time he was. Before that he talked
with Adry about the business, and did not
seem to be very angry, if Mr. Hayward
was angry at all.
Q. You understood that his anger on that
occasion was due to his having been ac-
cused of something that was not right con-
nected with his father's business? A. His
particular anger just hen, I suppose would.
Did suppose at the time he might be en-
raged, increased by the thought that I was
going to join his father.
Q. That might be as to the increased
anger, but the primary cause of his dis-
turbance of mind and anger was that he
had been accused of some shortage or
something of that character in his father's
business? A. I thought that was the cause
of his showing the anger at the time.
Q. Do you remember as to Monday night,
whether or not you were feeling well at
that time? Is it not a fact that you were
feeling very poorly Monday evening? A. I
did not feel as well as usual, felt a little
bit nervous; but I had been out during the
day attending to regular exercise.
Q. Are you not sure that it was Sunday
night hat you went down for the ink? A.
No, sir; I never shall forget the night that
I went for that ink and the letter.
Q. Do you remember that you were feel-
ing poorly that night? A. I remember I
was nervous and wanted to go to dinner,
to be alone at dinner. I did not care about
hearing the noise and confusion.
Q. That was due to some physical trou-
ble? A. I felt a little tired.
Q. You are sertain that it was not due to
any mental apprehension of calamities to
come, or anything of that kind? A: I don't
think it was.
Q. I will ask you if you wrote any letters
Sunday evening? A: I don’t tink I did
write anything Sunday. No, sir, I wrote
Monday, and I don’t think I wrote any-
thing Sunday. I am quite sure I did not
write anything Sunday evening.
Q. Did you take the elevator when you
went down Monday evening or walk? A.
I took the elevator.
Q: Who was running the elevator? A. I.
don't know; I think it was the night
watchman, night engineer; but won’t be
positive; I go up and down so often, that
I do not always notice who is on the ele-
vator, but I think it is the night watch-
man.
Q. Do you recall wheher going down or
back, either one or both, you saw anyone
else on the levator, than the person who
was operating the elevatoo? A. I don't re-
member whether I saw any one on the
elevator, than the one operating the 1e-
vator.
Q. Do you remember whether you saw
any one on the first floor after you had
got down there? A: I think when I left
the elevator and turned to the left, to the
first door, I think there was, Ithought at
the time ºthere was a young lady and a
girl standing in the vetibule, just in the
act of leaving the flat. Not persons whom
I knew.
Q. They were persons whom you did not
know in any event? A: I did not want
them—they might have been people whom I
would have known if I had been at the
Hennepin entrance where they were stand-
ing in the vestibule, but when I went to
the entrance, the front door of the flat,
there was only one there, and I supposed
they had gone out, but I did not see them
go out.
Q. You did not go to Adry's room at that
time? A. No, sir, it was too late.
Q. You could have gotten in
couldn't you? A. I probably could.
Q. Do you know whether they are sup-
plied there with the same kind of ink that
you were? A. I don’t know anything about
that.
Q. was your letter of such immediate
importance that you deemed it necessary
to write it that night? A. Well, I usually
had my time allotted off through my even-
ings when my husband is at home, I read
myself first, and when he is rested I read
to him; and then we ride or walk, we often
walk the last thing in the evening before
retiring.
Q. You did not regard it of any great
importance that you finished the letter that
night? A. I wanted to answer it.
Q. It was not of such great importance
that you would go any further than Harry's
room for ink? A. No, sir, that is, it was
not a business letter. It was only a letter
to my sister.
W. W. Hayward
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your full name? A. William
W. Hayward.
Mr. Erwin. I suppose I must have been
named for you; I am William W., too.
The Witness. A good name to have.
Q. How long have you resided in Minne-
sota 2 A. Since ’76.
Q. You are the father of Adry Hayward
and of Harry Hayward? A. I am.
Q. You have been engaged in business,
and had an office in the Oneida Block dur-
ing last year? A. Yes, sir.
there,











































288 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. During that time Adry assisted you
in collections and in making out accounts
and bills for rents and other matters con-
nected with your business? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Your business was up in the Oneida,
Block where it has been described by the
testimony, and is there now? A. Room 701
Oneida Block.
Q. In the office do you keep a safe? A.
I do.
Q. Did you hear or read the testimony
of Claus A. Blixt in reference to his hav-
ing met you and as to what you said about
the purchase of a valve on the 24th day of
November? A. I did read it.
Q. You may state now just where you
met Mr. Blixt, what was said and what
was done in relation to that valve? A. I
met him about three or four rods from the
steps that go out of the Ozark on Hennepin
avenue, about three rods, I think, may be.
Q. Which way were you going? A. was
going up to the Ozark.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial.
Mr. Erwin–Blixt says this was feigned
and forged, and I am going to show a
natural transaction. He testified he had an
appointment with Harry that morning.
The Court—I will tell you what you can
do. The only discrepancy that I recollect
in the questions that you asked and he
answered was the time of day and the
place where they met. -
Mr. Erwin–He denies the conversation.
If your honor please, can I show, not as a
matter of impeachment, a pure fabrication
here by Blixt?
The Court—You know as well as I do
what the proper way is to impeach a wit-
ness. In the first place, you must put the
question to the witness, fixing the time and
place when the conversation took place,
and ask him if such and such a conversa-
tion was not had, repeating the conversa-
tion, either his language or the substance;
and when you come to call upon a witness
to impeach him it has to be put in the same
manner, and answered yes or no.
Mr. Erwin–I am offering to prove now
these questions about the valve, as a part
of my defense, to show the fabrication of
the testimony of Blixt, so that the jury can
see the fabrication, without any regard to
his impeachment, to show his construction
of the testimony and show the facts. But I
will take the other course, if your honor
desires, but I will renew this offer.
The Court—Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Did you have a conversation
with Mr. Blixt where you stated a few rods
this side of the Ozark, toward Twelfth
street, on the morning of the 24th of No-
vember? A. I did.
Q. About 11 or 11:10? A. Well, it was
about 11 or a little after; I don't know just
the time.
Mr. Blixt swore “I met him just where
he got off of the car at Twelfth street”—I
will ask you if you met him there at all?
Objected to the form of the question.
Overruled.
Q. Did you meet Blixt where you got off
of the car at Twelfth street just when
you got off of the car at Twelfth street? A:
I met him three or four rods off the steps
of the Ozark.
Q. How far is that from Twelfth street?
A.. I believe there are 330 feet in the block,
if I recollect, to the corner of the Ozark
block.
Q. In his conversation with you, did Blixt
say to you, “I have got to go down and get
the valve; I was just going down to see
º to see where to get it?” A. Yes, sir, he
101. -
Q. Did you then say to him, “You get it
at H. Kelly & Co.'s 2'' A. I did.
Q. Did he then ask you where that was,
and did you tell him that it was at Second
avenue between Third and Washington? A.
He did.
Q. Did you then say to him, “You go
down to the office; Harry is there writing,
and he will go over with you, and if you
Will hurry and get there before he gets
away?” R. I did.
Q. Now, I ask you to give the entire con-
versation.
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
incompetent.
Sustained. Exception.
Q. Your son Adry testified that on that
day, on the 24th day of November, that
“Harry sent my father up home to the
flat at 11 o’clock, and afterwards came
back and said, “What did you send me up
for, nobody was there?” and that Harry
smiled and said, “They said they were
coming up”—referring to parties there that
were about to hire a flat. I will ask you
whether on the 24th day of November you
went up to your flat for the purpose of
renting rooms, or meeting persons to rent
rooms at that place? A. I went up for the
purpose of letting rooms to parties that
was to meet me there. The arrangement
with the parties was made the day before.
. Who made the arrangement? A. A.
couple of ladies there, and she said her
husband would be there, and wanted tº
know if I could be up at 11 o'clock there.
Q. Was the arrangement made with you
or Harry? A. It had nothing to do with
Harry. They made the arrangement with
me.
Q. Did Harry call your attention to that
fact, or in any way send you up on that
morning as Adry said? Did Harry send
you up, or did you go up of your own
accord? A.. I went up of my own accord;
I don’t recollect his saying anything.
Q. When you came back, did you say:
“What did you send me up there for; no-
body was there,” and Harry smiled and
said that they said that they were coming
up.
A. Nothing of the kind that I know of.
I don't recollect of his saying anything at
that time. I don’t know why he should,
because I made the arrangements and she
said her husband was a traveling man,
and wanted to know if I could be there at
11 o’clock.
Q. Do you remember Nov. 30, the day
after Thanksgiving? A. Yes, sir.
Where were you in the morning of
that day? A. In my office.
Q. What were you doing there that day?
A. I was doing as usual, attending to
business and finishing up one thing or an-
other; wrote some letters that morning,
too. I was there all the forenoon; was out
some in the afternoon.
Q. From what hours were you there? A.
From 9 o'clock until 12.
Q. who were in the office that morning?












OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
289
versation?
A. Harry was there awhile. I don't think
he was there more than half an hour or so.
I think he was up setting at thetable there;
I don't know what he did; he was sitting
in the room at the table; I don't know
whether he was writing or not.
Q: Who else was in the office? A: Adry
was there a while. I saw him there in the
morning. I can't tell just how long. He
was in; out and in.
Q. were Adry and Harry alone there in
the office that morning? A. No, sir, I was
there myself, I told you; they were not
alone.
Q. Did you hear your son Adry's testimo-
ny: A. I have not; I have not read it.
Q. Your son Adry testified that in that
office, between 10 and 12, it was nearly 11,
as follows:
Mr. Nye-I object to a repetition of that
question.
Mr. Erwin–I have got to call his atten-
tion to it.
The Court--Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–(Reads Adry's testimony as to
Harry, in the office, when Harry said he
was going to kill the dressmaker, and when
after Adry remonstrated, Harry clutched
him, the evidence being that they were
alone in the office.) Mr. Erwin then asked:
Q. Now, Mr. Hayward, on that morning,
and in that office, between Adry and Har-
ry, respectively, was there any such con-
A. Nothing of the kind. If
there had been any such thing as that I
would have heard it.
Q. Was there any conversation between
them that you remember of 2 A. Well,
there might have been—they were in the
other room, but the door was open all the
time, and there might have been some low
conversation, and I do not know what
it was.
Q. Was there any such transaction as
has been described here? A. No, sir.
Q. How long was Adry in the office that
morning, to the best of your recollection?
A. Well, I could not tell how long; he
was in and out at different times, and I
could not tell how long he was there.
Q. Were you there constantly the whole
morning? A. I was there the forenoon and
part of the afternoon, along late in the
evening I went away.
Q. At that time and in that office was
there any such conversation as this. (Re-
ferring to transcript of Adry's testimony
that Harry stated that he caused a fire
in the East at a loss of half a million
dollars, that there was nothing in the
idea of being haunted, and that Harry
told him to go out and kill some cripple.)
Any such conversation that morning dur-
ing the time that were there? Was there
any such talk as that? A. If there was
it must have been very low, in a whisper.
There could not have been. The door was
open all the time right there and I could
have heard it.
Q. Now, Mr. Hayward, in your safe prior
to the 24th day of November, I will ask
you if you kept any money, small money,
and if so in what denomination, and how
much it was, and where it was in your
safe? A. Oh, I had $1 bills there for quite
* While, I do not know how many, for
quite a while, a year or two. Somewheres
from 40 to 50 $1 bills were in an iron box
locked up in the safe. I had the key of
the box tucked under some papers in the
lower till. -
Q: Who knew the combination of the
safe in your office? A. Both boys, Harry
and Adry both.
Q. Have you examined your safes since
this trial began to see whether those $1
bills and $2 bills had been gone? A. I
examined it a week ago Tuesday morning
and they were all gone but one $1 bill.
Q. Did you know who took them out? A.
I do not.
Q. Did you pay them out? A. I did not.
Q. Do you know that they were there
along about the middle of November? A.
Well, they were there, I don’t know just
the time, but I know they must have been
there a couple of months, or two or three
months ago.
Q. I show you the T rail which has been
introduced in evidence, and I will ask you
whether sometime ago you purchased for
the use of anybody about the Ozark flats
any T rail of that description, a foot and a
half longer than that, of that description?
A. I purchased a couple down at the old
iron store on the corner of Forth street
and Eleventh avenue south some time ago,
and had them cut just the right length.
Mr. Blixt wanted them to lay in the furn-
ace and I think he wanted them a certain
length, I think about five feet, I cannot
tell, and I got two of them and had them
cut just the right length, the length that
he told me.
Q. Now, these irons was bought at Mr.
Blixt's request? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And cut the proper length at his re-
quest? A. Hold on a minute—he did not
say he wanted this identical iron, but he
said he wanted something to lay in there
the proper length, and I got these.
Q. What did he want them for? A. To
stop the coal from passing through the
furnace, to keep the coal from dropping
out of the furnace.
Q. What did you do with these T rails
when you got them? A. I took them down
there, and took them down into the en-
gineer's room and left them. After that
I saw one of them down there on the out-
side and I said, “You ain't using it?” And
he said he did not need but one of them
and he would keep the other.
Q. Mr. Blixt testified he never saw
them before, knew nothing about them.
You testify now it was at his request you
bought them and he used one of them?
A. He wanted me to get something, he
did not say this identical iron, but he
wanted something to keep the coal from
falling through, and I got this piece of
iron.
Q. Did you call his attention to them
when you delivered them down in the
basemen to him? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, tell us when it was that you
bought this iron? A. Oh, I cannot tell.
Q. And these irons were cut just the
proper length to put into the furnace, ac-
cording to Blixt's measurement? A. Yes,
sir; he gave me the measure to cut them
by.
Q. Who assisted you in the superintend-
ancy and management of the Ozark flat.
the direction of the engineer, the elevator
boys and so forth 2 A. Well, Harry assist-
ed me a good deal; he understood the en-
gine room down there, understood the
whole thing pretty well. The latter part of






290
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
the time I didn’t have much to do with it,
because my wife thought Harry could look
after it just as well as I could and save me
bothering with it.
Q. I will ask you, Mr. Hayward, if you
ever had a stroke of palsy or paralysis?
And have you had lately? A. Why, I have
been troubled with it since I took the grip
two years ago, but it gets worse all the
time.
Q. And you have, by reason of that,
saved yourself as much as possible from
physical exertion? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, then, from what period prior to
December—when was it that you practi.
cally turned over the management of the
engine room and the engineer, and the
management of all these things to Harry?
A. Oh, I never turned them over wholly,
not the whole thing no time, but he did a
good deal about it; he had principal charge
of it. When he was at home I let him look
after them.
Q. How many families can be accommo-
dated in the Ozark flats? A. There are 15
flats of seven rooms each, and there are
four apartments of two rocms each.
Q. Now, this superintendency of this
matter required how many visits of a care-
ful, prudent man to the basement during
the day? A. Oh, it depends upon how well
it was managed. It cold weather it took
more looking after than warm weather, to
see that the heating apparatus was kept
up right.
Q. Well, that the jury may understand
in regard to Blixt, while he was there in
October and November during cold weather,
how many visits and what attention did it
require for you or Harry to superintend
the matter? A. Oh, we generally went
down in the morning and in the evening
and sometimes noon.
Q. Well, were there constantly leakages
occurring, air getting into the pipes, stop-
pages? A. Yes.
Mr. Nye–That is objected to as leading.
Mr. Erwin-I know it is leading in that re-
spect.
Q. State to the jury in your own way,
the difference, what matters were constant-
ly requiring your attention? A. Well,
sometimes leaks would occur, sometimes
the taps would have to be tightened up,
attended to in that way. The tenants in
the flat would generally come and report
if there was anything wrong and we would
have to attend to it.
Q. Well, what I want to know is this,
whether Harry in the superintendency and
assistance which he gave to you of that
building was necessarily required to be con-
stantly in the basement, when he was
there, at least once or twice a day? A.
Well, it was required more in cold weather
than in warm weather, as I tell you, in
cold weather he had to see that the heat
was kept up, and we got more complaints
in cold weather than in warm weather
about the heating. Our elevator boy neg-
lected sometimes, being down in the base-
ment too much, and I would tell him he
ought not to be down there so much, and
that is why we would have to wait for him
sometimes at night. -
Mr. Nye. I move that that be stricken
out.
The Court. The motion is denied.
Q. Now, on the 3d day of December,
which was Monday, at what time did you
go to supper outside of the flats—your wife
has already testified where you got your
meals? A. Well, our time was to go a
quarter of 7, that is the time we ought to
have started.
Q. Now, do you remember how long you.
were at supper? A. I could not tell, I
should judge about 20 minutes or so, might
have been a little longer—I could not say.
Q. And while you were down there did.
you notice your son Harry down in the
dining room? A. I don’t recollect of seeing
him.
Q. From supper where did you go? A.
I came home and laid down on the lounge
after supper.
Q. You came home—if you got back–
counting the time of going and coming and
being in the dining room, you got back
somewhere like five or seven minutes after
7? A. I could not tell the exact time, but
it usually takes 15 or 20 minutes for us to
get back.
Q. Now, do you recollect of seeing Harry
in your flat that evening and if so at what
time? A. I do. I know he came in fixed
up, and I heard my wife speak to him, she
says, “You are fixed up tonight,” I heard
her say that to him. -
Q. Did you hear the conversation he had
with her? A. No, I did not, not all of it. I
was lying there and I don’t know what
they did talk about. -
Q. How long was Harry in there before
he went away? A. Well, he made his ap-
pearance twice, but whether he went out
of the room or not, I don’t know; I saw
him once and then I saw him again—he
went out of my sight and I saw him again,
but I cannot say whether he went out of
the building or not.
Q. Do you know what time it was when
he left your flat the last time? A. I know,
because I was thinking then—I looked at
my watch, and my watch was 18 minutes.
of 8, and I was thinking then it was rather
late for him to go to the opera.
Q. Well, you got in five minutes past 7;
how long had you been in the flat to the
best of your recollection before Harry came
in there? A. I don’t suppose it was more
than 15 minutes or so, I can’t tell exactly.
Q. Well, that would make it 20 minutes.
past 7? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then he went out from the flat at
the time he made his second appearance.
at 18 minutes of 8? A. According to my
time, yes, sir.
Q. How was your time, was it correct?
A. Yes, sir, within a minute or so.
Q. What time did you go to bed that
night, Mr. Hayward? A. Well, it was quite
late; I recollect my wife went out some-
wheres, I think she went out of the flat
somewheres, about half past 8 or 9.
Q. How long was she gone? A. I don't
know; she came back and she said she
was writing letters—she was writing some-
thing, I don't know what she was writing:
I think she went after some ink, she gen-
erally went down to Harry's after ink,
but I don’t know it. But she was gone a
while and came back.
Mr. Erwin–Now, if your honor please,
here is the testimony of Mr. Adry. (Read-
ing from Adry's denial that he had told
his father that he was going to rob street






























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
291.
cars to get money, and that he had a
sºneme to fix Harry.)
witness—Cross out the street car, that
is not in it. -
Q. I will ask you, did Adry say to you
on the 8th of October, at the office, “I
an going to have money somehow,” You
say he did not say that he was going to
roº street cars? A. No, it was a train,
he was going to rob a train.
Q. Going to rob a train? A. Yes, he was
going to steal, rob, hold up a train.
Q. Did he say, “And as for Harry, I
have got a scheme, I know how to fix him,
you see if I don't fix him?” A. No, he said
*I know of a scheme.”
Q. Did he then say, “You see if I don't
ax him?” A. He said, “I know of a scheme
that will fix Harry, and you see if I don't
fix him.” I said, “You are a bluffer.”
He says, “Well, you will see whether I am
a bluffer or not.”
Q. Has Adry in your presence made
threats of violence to Harry, if so, when
and where? A. Oh, he made them a good
many times in this way, “I will ſix him,
you see if I don't fix him.” He has re-
peated that a good many times. That has
been within three or four months before
this murder. -
Q. Well, was that said many times? A.
A great many times; he would repeat it
in that way. If the cause could be ex-
plained here, why you should see the real-
son, but I cannot explain the cause unless
I am allowed to.
Q. Well, you may explain the cause of
all these things.
Mr. Nye-I have no objection.
A Well, I had had trouble, you know,
with my books, missing money, and such
like, and I would talk it over with my
wife and she would say she was going to
have it taken care of, and she talked to
Harry to look up the books, and to see
how it was, and so Harry looked it up.
And finally Harry went and got a book,
had it printed himself so I would under-
stand it—I am not a bookkeeper and I
don’t understand this double entry system
of bookkeeping—he got up a book that I
would understand. After he got up that
book it made Adry very mad; he declared
he would not stay in the office any more--
declared he would never do another stroke
in the office after I got that book up; and
the consequences that occurred afterwards
—I don't know whether you want me to
tell that or not?
Q. Yes, sir, go on and tell. A. Well, on
the 3d day of October I went to Pipestone
on the morning of the 3d and on the 5th I
returned; on the 6th I went over to the
office and Adry turned me over what I
supposed was all the money he had collect-
ed during my absence. And he left the
office, went away, and I didn't see him any
more until after dinner, and I told him I
wanted him to come down to the office,
and he said: “I can't; I have got business
of my own to attend to.” I says, “It is
necessary for you to come down.” He says,
"What is the matter?” I said, “I see you
have not turned in all of the money”—1
don't see that it is necessary to repeat all
that he said, but he cursed and swore.
Q. Yes, go right on and tell what he said.
A. He says, “If you value your life as
ºur own you had better not say that I
stole money.” “well,” I said, “it is just
the same as stealing; taking money that
way is the same as stealing it.” And he
went down to the office and went over the
books, and he said: “There is $75 gone"-he
dropped his head, and he says, “I canº
account for it.” He owned up himself.
Q. Well, at that time did he make any
threats against Harry? A. He did at that
time and on the Monday following.
Q. Well, what was it? A. Well, “he
would ſix him for fixing up the books,”
and such like. It was all from this book
business he was mad about.
The Court—Did he accuse Harry of taking
the money? A. No, sir, he never accused
Harry of taking the money at all. He said
he could not account for it unless he lost
it. Well, I says, “You could not have lost
the whole pile of $75.” “Well,” he said, “I
cannot account for it; I don’t know what
it means–I don’t know where it went to.”
Q. Now, at that time did Harry have
anything to do with collecting your money;
did he make any collections at all? A. No,
sir, he never had anything to do, except he
would happen to be in the office and some-
body would come in to pay some money and
he would take it. I think once or twice
somebody came into the office and paid him
money when I was out and when Adry was
not there; but he didn't have any business
to collect money; Adry attended to that.
Q. Well, these collections, as I understand
it—who made the entries in the book of the
collections, Harry or Adry” A. Why, Adry
made all the entries.
Q. Then the discrepancy in the account
appeared by reason of Adry's own entries?
A. Adry's own bookkeeping.
Mr. Nye–Well, I object to that as a con-
clusion.
Q. Well, I will ask you if that is so? A.
That is so.
Mr. Nye–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial, and I move to
strike it out.
The Court–Objection sustained. We can't
try that case now.
Q. Well, now, I will ask you a question
which you need not answer until we see
whether there is an objection to it. How
much, from your investigation, is there a
shortage in your accounts during Adry's
superintendency of them, during the time
that you have employed him there as
clerk?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. You heard me read the testimony to
your wife, did you not, of what occurred
on the 7th day of October in the flat-Sun-
day, the 7th day of October? A. I did.
I wish you would just state to the
court and jury what occurred there. A.
Well, I cannot tell the whole that oc-
* because my wife went down to see
Inn.
Q. Well, what occurred in your presence?
A. I know he came up and she commenced
talking to him about these matters, that
they must be fixed up and that the money
must be turned over, and he said he hadn't
got it, could not get it, and she thought he
had the money; she said, “I should think
you would have the money; what have you
done with your insurance money?” I
think he got some eight hunderd odd dol-



















292
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
lars from the insurance company when he
got burned out, but he said he didn’t have
any money to make it good.
Q. Well, state how he acted A. Well, I
don’t know all of the words he used, be-
cause I was very mad the way he talked
to my wife, insinuating upon her character.
Q. Well, what did he say? A. Well, I
thought he was insinuating upon her char-
acter.
Q. Upon his insinuating upon her char-
acter, what did you say to him? A. Well, I
told him to get out of there, that he had
to get out of the flat, and of course I made
for him—the first time I ever did in my
life, and Harry and my wife came and got
me and I went to the bed room. (The wit-
ness here cried.)
Q. Mr. Hayward, did Harry interfere in
any way more than to tell him to get out,
after these insinuations had been made?
A. Nothing at all. Harry was laying
down on the lounge. -
Mr. Erwin–I am compelled to ask this
witness whether he has ever been in the
habit of going to houses of ill fame, in the
years 1893 and '942
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as incompe-
tent, irrelevant and immaterial.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Now, Mr. Hayward, I will ask you to
state whether there has ever been in the
lifetime of Adry, from his boyhood up to
the present time, any strange or peculiar
actions, doings or sayings which led you to
believe in any way that he was either gen-
erally or at times out of his mind?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial and too broad.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Well, that is right, I knew
what the ruling would be.
The Court—Well, don’t impose upon the
court.
Mr. Erwin–I will not, your honor, I just
wanted to refer to each. Witness as it
comes up. Exception.
The Court—I have ruled upon that once
and I suppose you understand the ruling.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, by this
witness we offer to show that the ancestry
of the witness, Adry Hayward, through
several generations, both collaterial and di-
rect line, were in their lifetime insane, and
we further offer to prove that the conduct
and manner of the said Adry Hayward for
a number of years last past have been on
many occasions both strange and un-
natural–
The Court—Well, you can handl your of
fer up here and I will read it. You can
put it all in and I rule itout. You know
it is improper for you to read it all in
the presence of the jury after the court
has intimated to you what you can prove.
Mr. Erwin–Very well. If your honor
please, I will give it to the reporter. (Mr.
Erwin here stepped over to the reporter's
table and dictated his offer to the reporter,
which is as follows):
Mr. Erwin–I offer to show by this wit-
ness that the ancestry of the witness, Adry
Hayward, through several generations,
both collaterial and direct line, were, in
their lifetime, insane; and we further offer
to prove that the conduct and manner of
the said Adry Hayward for a number of
years last past have been on many occa-
sion both strange and unnatural; that he
has on occasions during this said time ex-
hibited unnatural and unfounded fear and
insane delusions. This proof is offered as
a part of a proposed case of the present
insanity of Adry Hayward upon the sub-
ject matter of his testimony, which is nec-
essary to btain the opinion of experts as
to his present insanity.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Now, have you read the testimony or
heard the testimony and story of your son
Adry in this case? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you read it, I say? A. No, sir,
I have not read what was said. You mean
heretofore, or what you read to me now.
Q. I mean heretofore, what was done in
this case—have you read the testimony in
THE TRIBUNE” A. Well, I have read
something in some of the papers, but you
cannot depend upon anything in the papers.
If you believe all the testimony you see in
the papers, you can't depend upon it, be-
* they have told more lies than a lit-
tle.
Mr. Erwin–Now, then, your honor, does
your honor hold that I can read the testi-
money of Adry Hayward to this witness,
and take it in connection with his knowl-
edge of the insanity on the part of Adry,
a person who has been with him as much
as his father has.
The Court—No. As I said before, this
question of insanity must be confined to the
time that he testifies to in which he was
having some difficulty with, or in which
he made threats towards the defendant. I
think the rule is well settled, that a man
may be insane on some subject, and be a
competent witness in a case, and that his
sanity could not be attacked excepting as
to those matters. That is, his acts and
declarations, those matters that are na-
terial in the case, that he has testified to,
and his actions and saying in connection
with the transaction testified to by him.
But the general question of insanity can-
not be brought into a case of this kind.
My judgment is that it should be confined
to the times that he testified to in which
he was having some difficulty with his
|
brother, or in which he made threats to-
ward him.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, I
will state that the scope of my intention
is, breiſly: It was my intention in the first
place—before declaring my intentions let
me say that insanity is a state of the
mind; it may appear generally and contin-
uous, involving every moment of the sub-
ject’s life, or it may appear in certain
form, over certain subject matters. Now,
in this case I never have claimed that
Adry Hayward was generally insane on
all subjects; that is not my proposition.
My proposition is this, that Adry Hayward
is generally sane on most all subjects, but
that by reason of his mental weakness
or lesion, coming down to him naturally
through his ancestors, matters and things
brought to his mind operate differently
upon his mind than they do upon ordinary
sound and healthy persons. I propose to
show in this instance where trivial things
which in the ordinary mind would have
been trivial, were aggravated by this weak
mind, with this insane lesion, into such




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 293
serious matters that they shadowed the
mind, directing the movement of the indi-
vidual, making him a prey, a victim of
an insane fear or delusion. After having
shown, your honor, a variety of these
things coming down through this life, both
father and mother, as I have indicated by
my questions, I intend to put upon the
stand thoroughly qualified and noted ex-
perts in the profession and submit to them
the question of the ancestral insanity, the
instances of the mental aberration, the
instances of a delusion and the giving
away of this weak mind to delusions:
then I would state to them his testimony
in this case and ask them whether the
matters and things related by him in this
case, and believed to be true by him, were
not in fact insane delusions, and not facts.
The Court—I would like to see the man
who would testify to it. -
Mr. Erwin–Well, your Honor, I will show
them to you if you will allow me to put
them on.
The Court—Now, I understand, that our
supreme court has held that an insane per-
son was competent to testify, was a com-
petent witness, and that they might be re-
iied upon in their testimony just as well
as any other witness except in such per-
ticular things as they may be shown to be
insane upon, and that is just the point I
am confining you to—his transactions be-
tween the two boys and his testimony in
reference to those transactions.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor will now listen
to me, that is just where I am.
The Court—Well, that is just where I
alºn.
Mr. Erwin–Then I think we are together.
My point is this in regard to that record,
that the subject matter upon which Adry
Hayward is insane is as to the murder
of Catherine Ging by his brother Harry,
who has admitted that he has forged in
his own mind a belief that Harry was
about to kill Miss Catherine Ging before
he heard of it. He has related here in tes-
timony before this jury. He has transac-
tions on the 3d day of December which
never took place. -
The Court—I don't know whether they
did or not.
Mr. Erwin–It has been testified to by a
dozen witnesses on the stand they never
took place.
The Court–Well, that is a question.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, your honor, it is a ques-
tion, I know. Now, I hold that on the sub-
ject matter of the murder of Catherine
Ging by his brother, that this man’s mind
is insane, and I have a right to show it as
a delusion and not as proof.
The Court—It is very singular that what
he said three or four days before the mur-
der should happen.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, it did
not happen. The testimony by which it
has been shown to have happened is the
testmony of Blixt, which I will show by
witnesses—
The Court—Well, the girl was murdered.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir, but she was not
murdered as Blixt says she was, and the
co-operation of this insane delusion on the
mind of Adry Hayward running parallel
with this conspiracy and murder, has
formed the subject matter here of this
popular belief which I can explode if I
can show the character and the condition
of this man’s, Adry Hayward, mind.
The Court—Well, I have ruled on this
and your questions of insanity will have
to be confined as intimated.
Mr. Erwin–Well, your honor, I wish to
confine it entirely to the subject matter of
this testimony, but I wish to show that
that subject matter as testified to in con-
nection with his history, sane and insane
history, must be a delusion and not a fact.
The Court—Well, I am not prepared to
determine that until it comes up.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I know, your honor,
but that is my plan.
The Court—I have stated my view of this,
and that is all I can say.
Mr. Erwin–I want to correct your honor,
Your honor thinks that I want to make
the charge of general insanity; that is not
true. I want to show that his ideas and
his testimony upon the subject matter of
this murder of Catherine Ging are delu-
sions and not true.
The Court—How are you going to show
that?
Mr. Erwin–By his insane ancestry—by
his continued exhibitions of like delusions
and by the facts and circumstances sur-
rounding this particular delusion itself.
The Court—Well, you assume they are
delusions?
Mr. Erwin—I do; I want to prove they
are.
The Court—Well, when the question
comes up properly, I will decide it. I have
decided it so far.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I thought your honor
and I were not very far apart in this mat-
ter. That is all with this witness.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
- When you went down to the office
on the 24th of November, from the block,
you did not find the ladies there whom
you expected? A. No, sir; the man was
not there.
Q. It was a man? A. Two ladies were
there the day before and one of them told
me her husband wanted to see me and
would meet me at 11 o’clock the next day.
Q. Nobody met you as a matter of fact?
A. Well, one woman did, and she told me
her husband could not come; but I did not
meet the man at all.
Q. Was that one of the women— A.
Yes, sir; one of the women that I was
speaking to the day before who told me
her husband wanted to see me the next
day, but she said her husband could not
get down.
Q. Was there any remark made by you
concerning your failure to see the parties?
A. None that I know of.
Q. Will you swear that nothing was
said? A. Well, nothing that I remember
of.
Q. Who did you find in the office when
you got back? A. I did not go back until
after dinner. I stayed home until I got my
dinner.
Q. You have not been able to attend to
business for some time, have you Mr.
Hayward? A. Oh, yes, sir, I tend to
business; but I have not got a great deal
to attend to. Writing is what bothers me
more than anything else—if there is any
Writing to attend to it bothers me.
Q. Well, office business you don’t have





294
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
very much to attend to, do you? A. Well,
I am there at the office generally, but
when it comes to writing I don’t do any
more than I have to do—I get somebody
else to do the writing. -
Q. What is your principal business in
the office, rentals? A. Rentals—we have
a big rental business. Of course we have
a real estate business, but we have more
rentals than anything else to attend to.
Q. How long had Adry been the office
man prior to November? A. Oh, I can’t
tell. But he must have been there a couple
of years, I can’t tell without looking it up.
Q. Well, there was one interval of time
in which you had some difficulty with Adry
and he left? A. Yes, sir, that was lately.
Q. How long had it been since that that
he has been attending to the office? A.
Well, I don’t think he was in the office
after that—I know his wife came to me
and wanted me to take him back—I know
I thought I would not have him any more.
He must have been in the office some-
where near three weeks.
Q. Can't you fix some time at all? A.
I can by looking at the books.
Q. Can you give us any idea, how long
he had been in the office prior to the 30th
of November? A. I think he came back
somewhere about the 1st of October.
Q, Were you in the office Monday fore-
noon, the 3d of December? A. Yes, sir, I
was in the office then. -
Q. Were you in there in the afternoon?
A, I cannot say whether I was in the
whole of the afternoon or not; I might
have gone out a part of the afternoon.
Q. Well, do you remember whether you
were in the office, do you remember wheth-
er you were there about 1 o'clock? A.
Well, I would not get back as soon as 1
o'clock—when I went to dinner I did not
get back before half past 1 and some-
times 2 o’clock. I would be there by 2
o'clock anyway.
Q. Well, were you on
of December 2 A. Yes,
by 2 o'clock.
Were you in there about 4 o’clock?
A. Well, about that time I went away;
I don't know just the time, but along in
the evening I was gone.
Q. How much did you see Harry in the
office Monday? A. Oh, I don’t think he
was there more than half an hour. Along
in the forenoon, must have been about the
middle of the forenoon, anyway. He had
no business there. He just happened to
be in and out. Some days he would not
be there at all.
Q. Do you remember whether he was in
the office about 4 o’clock in the after-
noon? A I think I went away about 4
o'clock.
Q. Do you remember where you went?
A. Oh, I went down south, different places
—I went down to Third street, one place.
Q. Well, as a matter of fact, in the ordi-
nary course of business, wasn't it neces-
sary for you to be outside most of the
time? A. No, I do not average one-fifth
of my time outside; that is, office hours.
Q. Do you say to this jury that during
office hours you spent four-fifths of your
time in your office? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do you fix the occasion of the
30th of November? A. Being the next day
after Thanksgiving.
Monday the 3d
sir, I was there
was there in the office or not?
Q. Did you see Harry on Thanksgiving?
A. He was not in the office, I know. I was
down there in the office in the forenoon
on Thanksgiving, but not in the afternoon.
Q. Why does the fact that the day previ-
ous was Thanksgiving, why does that aid
you to fix the circumstances in your mind
whether Harry and Adry was A. L.
know what I was doing. I had some let-
ters to answer that I had to write.
Q. Do you remember who you wrote toº
A. I can’t remember who these persons
were to whom I wrote letters.
Q. You don’t write any letters, do you?
A. Oh, yes, sir, I write letters, only short
letters. I can’t write good, but I can write
letters, though; I can write in the after-
noon better than I can in the forenoon.
Q. Will you swear you wrote letters that
morning? A. Yes, sir. I wrote one down
to Illinois, to my wife's brother. His name
is Loper.
Q. Was it a business letter? A. Oh, no,
just an ordinary letter.
Do you keep copies of your letters?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you a letter press book in your
office? A. No, sir.
Q. How do you remember that the writ-
ing of that letter was on the day suc-
ceeding Thanksgiving? A. How do I
know?
Q. Yes, sir. A. Because I remember of
being down at the office in the forenoon,
and what I had to do, and what I fixed
to do the next day.
Q. Do you remember what you had to
do on Wednesday forenoon, the day before
Thanksgiving? A. What day of the week
was that day?
Q. Well, if the 30th was the day after
Thanksgiving, and Wednesday was the day
before, it would naturally be the 28th.
A. No, I don’t remember what I did on
that day.
- Q. Do you remember whether Harry was
in the office in the forenoon of Wednesday,
Nov. 28? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember about Tuesday, the
27th 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember about the after-
noon of Tuesday, the 27th, whether Harry
A. Well,
in the afternoon I would be out a good
deal. I could not tell what day exactly
he Was in there.
Q. Well, what do you remember about
his being in the office Monday forenoon,
the 3d of December 2 A. How do I remen-
ber?
Q. Yes, what is your recollection about
his being in the office in the forenoon? A.
Who be in the office?
Q. Harry. A. About Harry being in the
office?
Q. Yes. A. Well, I remember that very
well on account of the time of this murder.
Q. Well, he was in the office the forenoon
of Monday? A. Yes, sir, he was in the
office in the forenoon.
Q. Didn't get down until late, did he? A.
I think it was about the middle of the
forenoon.
Q. Are there any other days in the past
year that you can remember as to whether
he was in the office or not, except Monday
forenoon and the forenoon of the 30th of
November? A. I could tell very quick by
going back to my office—simply going to




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
295
my office I could tell by looking at my
books.
Did you cousult your books in regard
to this date of the 30th of November? A.
Yes, sir, I have.
Q. What is there in your books that as-
sists you in remembering as to the fore-
noon of Nov. 30? A. Well, I had a diary
there, where I keep it; I keep account of
what is being done that day, and anything
he puts in the book I would know his writ-
ing—anything he puts down; if Adry ain’t
there he puts it down; you see I make a
memorandum of little items during the day,
and if Adry ain't here and Harry is, why,
of course Harry puts it down in this book.
Q. Then, he did some of the clerical
work? A. Oh, if Adry was not there he
would put some little memorandum down,
that is all.
Q. Well, what is there about the books
that helps you to fix the circumstance that
Harry was in the office in the forenoon of
Nov. 30? A. I know, because I saw him
there, and by the writing. He was there a
short time.
Q. By what writing? A. The writing in
ºne book.
Q. Who made the writing in the book?
A. Harry makes it when he is there.
Q. Is there any writing in your book that
Harry made that forenoon? A: I don’t
know that there is.
Q. Then why do you say you can tell by
your book? A. You are referring back to
other business.
. No, I am referring to the 30th day of
November? A. I can tell he was there
then, because I knew that this transaction
came up and I knew all about it, but any-
thing that has passed by for weeks or
months I cannot tell anything about.
Q. Have you examined any memorandum
or books in your office to see whether there
was anything entered there either in Har-
ry's writing or in anybody else’s, by which
you fix the circumstance that he was or was
not in the office on the forenoon of Nov.
30? A. Yes, I had it fixed all right there.
Q. You had it fixed all right? A. Yes,
sir, I have a calendar fixed to keep things
ahead in, and when they pass by I let it
so.
Q. What did you keep on that calendar?
A. The transactions of Monday, and when
they have passed I tear it up, throw it
away.
Q. Have you a memorandum of any
kind in your calendar of Monday, the 30th
of November? A. Not now, I have not,
because when they pass I tear them up,
put them away.
Q. Can you state to the court and jury
what particular circumstance enabled you
to swear positively that Harry and Adry
were not together the forenoon of the 30th
of November? A. I don't swear they were
not together.
Q. Were they together? A. I say they
were there.
Q. They were together? A. But this
talk is what you are talking about.
Q. How long were they there? A. I told
. that Harry was there about half an
Our.
Q: What time in the afternoon—what
time was he there? A. About the middle
of the forenoon. About half past 10.
Q. About from half past 10 to 11 he was
there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that is your recollection? A. Yes,
sir, and Adry was in and out. Of course,
if they talked anything there it was talked
in a very low talk.
Q. What is there that fixes in your mind
the fact as to whether the doors between
the rooms were opened or shut. A. The
door never is shut without there is some-
thing private—never in the world; never
knew the door to be shut unless there was
something private.
Q. You ever know the boys to shut the
door for something private? A: I never
have known them to shut it yet.
Q. How many rooms are there
office? A. Just two.
Q. Do you remember what outdoor work
or business you had to do that day? A.
I told you I went down in the afternoon.
Q. Well, in the forenoon, do you re-
member anything you had to do that fore-
noon? A. Well, I don’t know anything
particular, but I know I made a business
to be in there in the forenoon, and if there
is anything out it is in the afternoon; I
always tell them. I will be in in the after-
noon until 2 o’clock, and I stay there
in the office from 2 to 3 and after that I
cannot tell where I will be.
Q. Do you remember; or do you swear
positively that you always attend to the
outdoor work in the afternoon and not in
the forenoon? A. Oh, I have sometimes,
but I don't make a business of it; if I have
business to do I generally start from the
house early; I have started from the house
as early as half past 7.
Q. Do you remember when Harry went
to Chicago last time? A: I remember of
his going to Chicago, but I can’t tell you
the exact day. I could have told you when
I had it down, but after this transaction I
threw it aside.
Q. Well, what would you put down on
the calendar? A. People would come in
and inquire for him and I would tell them
he had gone to Chicago.
Q. You put that down? A: Yes, sir, the
same as I did when he was hunting.
Q. Do you remember whether anybody
come in and inquired for him about that
time? A. I can’t remember, I know they
came in.
Q. Do you remember he came back from
Chicago about election time? A: I don't
recollect.
Q. You have no remembrance of it what-
ever? A. I remember of going down to
see the doctor on election day.
Q. Is it not a fact, Mr. Hayward, your
memory is poor? A. I think my memory
is pretty good.
... Well, election day was the 6th of No-
vember. Now, from that time on to the
3d of December Harry was in and out of
the office more or less? A. Well, about as
much as he ever Wals.
Q. Well, when he was in the city he
spent more or less time in the office? A.
Oh, he was in and out, back and forth.
Q. Can you fix a single day between the
6th of November and the 3d of December,
tell me a single day when he was there in
the forenoon about 11 o’clock? A. That is
quite a while.
Q. Yes, it is a little less than a month.
A. I could not tell you without going to the
office; I would have to go to the office to
tell you.
in the



296
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Don't you remember of writing some
letter, or some circumstance that would
aid you in fixing any other time than the
30th of November at which Harry was in
there from half past 10 to 11? A. A. I
could not recollect without going to the
office.
Q. Why can't you remember the day be-
fore Thanksgiving as well as the day
after? A. Because Thanksgiving was a
holiday and I know what business trans-
pired on Thanksgiving day.
Q. Do you know what business you did
transact on November 29th, Thanksgiving
day? A. Yes, sir, I had considerable figur-
ing to do that day—I was figuring that
day.
Q. Was Harry there that day? A. I
don't think he was, I don’t think either
one of the boys was there.
Q. Will you swear that Harry was not
there? A. I would not swear, but I know
Adry was not there because Thanksgiving
day I don't think anybody was there but
myself—went down in the forenoon and I
was there by myself.
Q. Now, they were, according to your
recollection, both Adry and Harry, in the
office on the 30th of November, about 10:30
to 11 o'clock in the forenoon? A. Harry
was there a half hour.
Q. Well, that would be about half an
hour, and you said from 10:30 to 11? A.
Well, I can't remember the time.
Q. You remember anything they said?
A. They were sitting in the front room
where the entrance is at the table there,
and they were talking, but I could not tell
what they were talking about.
Q. Could you hear what they were talk-
ing about? A. No, sir.
Q. Were they sitting close up to the
table? A. Adry was sitting at the table
and Harry was on the other side.
Q. How far from you were they? A.
Fifteen or 20 feet.
Q. Were you sitting at your desk? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you pay any particular attention
to them? A. I did not pay any particular
attention to what they were talking about.
It was a low talk, of course.
Q. Do you remember of Adry going out
shortly after 11? A. I think he went out
sometime in the forenoon. I don’t know
just the time he went out. I don’t know
where he went.
Q. Have you talked this matter over
considerably with your attorneys before
you came here to testify? A. No, sir,
with none of them. Not a word.
Q. About the 30th day of November?
A. No, sir, not about the 30th of Novem-
ber.
Q. Not a word with Mr. Erwin or Mr.
Smith or Mr. Sweetser or Mr. Shumaker?
A. No, sir. They notified me they wanted
me here as a witness this afternoon.
Q. You ever explain it to Mr. Hale? A.
Never.
Q. Ever talk it over with your wife,
about the 30th of November? A. I don’t
remember of ever talking anything about
it. If I have I don’t recollect. If she would
say I had why, I would believe it, but l
have no recollection about it now.
Q. Then, you were called here as a wit-
ness to testify about this subject, the 30th
of November without any previous conver-
sation with any one? A. I did not know
what I was going to testify about.
Q. Well, you were called here to testify
about it and previously you had not spoken
to anybody about it? A. I never talked to
anybody about it; I did not know what
they were going to prove by me. I heard
they wanted me here as a witness and I
Canne.
Q. You had heard Adry had testified to a
conversation between him and Harry in
your office, and in which he said that he
was going to kill Miss Ging? A. I heard
it today.
Q. Hadn't you heard it before that Adry
had testified to that? A. No.
Q. That Harry became violent and that
he remonstrated with him in your office? A.
No, sir.
Q. And that Harry came at him with his
fingers? A. No, sir.
Q. Never heard ot that? A. Never until
today.
Q. And you never knew until today that
Adry had testified to such a circumstance?
A. I heard it through the papers, that was
all.
Q. Well, had you ever heard from any
source that Adry testified to that circum-
stance? A. I don’t recollect—but I read
the papers, but you know you can't trust
the papers at all.
Q. Will you swear that you never heard
anything about that circumstance? A. I.
will swear I never heard of it, only what I
read in the papers.
Q. Well, as a matter of fact, don't you
know that Adry did so testify? A. Not
until today.
Q. Didn't you know that weeks before
this trial it was generally understood he
would testify to such a circumstance? A.
No, sir.
Q. Didn't you know on the first week of
the trial he gave that story to Harry's
lawyers in the presence of myself and
Mr. Hall, in my office? A. My lawyers
never gave me any information; I did not
know what was going on.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I ask that
the question be stricken from the record;
there is no proof of any such story.
Mr. Nye—Well, Adry Hayward testified to
it on re-direct examination.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, that he told the same
story.
Mr. Nye—Yes, sir.
The Court—Well, I see you are not going
to get through with the cross-examination
of this witness tonight, and we will take a
recess until tomorrow morning until 10
o'clock.
(Court here took a recess until 10 o'clock
February 21st, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 21.
W. W. Hayward
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Nye.
Q. I understand you to say, Mr. Hay-
ward, referring to the forenoon of Nov.
30, that Harry was there half an hour or
so. A. Yes, sir.
Q. And Adry was there a while? A. Yes
sir. -
Q. What time was that that Harry was
there a half an hour? A. I can't tell ex-
actly, but about the middle of the fore-
noon, I think.
Q. What time was Adry there? A. Adry




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
297
was there off and on; he was in a time
or two. I don't know just what time.
Q. Was there anybody else in the office
from 10 to 11 that forenoon? A: I think I
had one man in there, I don't recollect
who. It seems to me I had a man come in
from down in the south part of town to
see me about business. I won’t be positive
about it.
A. Calling your attention to that day,
were you there that forenoon? A: I cannot
Say.
Q. Were you there all the forenoon Mon-
day? A. The day after Thanksgiving? I
am generally in the office in the forenoon.
Q. Did you not yesterday say? A. I can-
not remember for certain. I am generally
there in the forenoon.
Q. Do you remember having any conver-
sation with Elder Stewart? A. I do.
Q. What time was that after the Mon-
day, Dec. 3? A. You mean after the mur-
der?
Q. Yes, sir. A. I don't remember of
anything afterwards.
Q. Do you swear that you did not?
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant.
The Court—I might be preliminary to
asking an impeacement question.
Mr. Ewin—I supposed it was asked for
testing his memory.
Mr. Nye-No.
Mr. Erwin–Objection withdrawn.
Mr. Nye-Did you see Elder Stewart on
Thursday following the Monday of the
murder? A. Cannot say. I know the con-
versation I had with him, all the conver-
sation I have ever had. I can tell that,
but cannot tell the day.
Q. Did you not have a conversation with
Elder Stewart on Thursday of that week
before Adry had disclosed to any one else
the conversation that he had held with
Harry on the 30th 2
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
assuming facts not proven; and before
Adry had made a confession to anybody
else.
The Court—I think that is proper.
Mr. Nye-I will eliminate that part of it.
Did you not on Thursday of that week and
before any communications had been made,
before Adry's arrest, I will put it that
way, have a conversation with Elder Stew-
art, and did not Elder Stewart then tell
you of the conversation that Adry had had
with him in which he had told him on
the Friday of the week before of Harry's
intention, and calling your attention to the
day in which the conversation was had;
do you remember that?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial, ir-
relevant and improper, and an attempt to
introduce the substance of a conversation
which the court certainly would rule out.
The Court—If you want to put an im-
peachment question, that is a question for
the purpose of laying the foundation for
impeachment, you must call his attention
to the time and place of the conversation,
and then recite to the witness, state to the
witness the conversation that you claim
was had.
Mr. Nye–That is just exactly what I am
trying to do. The time and place at Elder
Stewart's office on Thursday, Dec. 6, 1894,
before Adry was arrested, I ask you if at
that time Elder Stewart did not tell you in
substance that Adry on the Friday of the
week preceding, which was the day fol-
lowing Thanksgiving, had come to him
with a story in substance as he has re-
lated it here on the stand concerning the
conversation with Harry. And did you at
that time, your attention being called to
its being Friday, the day after Thanksgiv-
ing, did you claim or pretend to have been
in that office at that time?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial,
irrelevant and assuming matters not
proved, assuming knowledge of the witness
not proved, the testimony of Adry, that
portion of it, and an attempt to prove mat-
ters which could not be proved by Elder
tewart himself.
The Court—Well, I think the point of the
question is in that conversation with Elder
Stewart; he claims to have been in the
office that day. That is all the point there
is to it.
Mr. Erwin–He is not bound to claim to
have been there with Elder Stewart. His
silence to Elder Stewart is in no sense an
impeachment.
Mr. Nye–It is proper to show on cross-
examination.
Mr. Erwin–If he was there, then it is an
impeachment, but his silence is no im-
peachment.
The Court—The objection sustained.
Mr. Nye-I will ask you if you had any
conversation on Thursday with Mr. Stew-
art? A. I cannot say what day it was. It
was something after the murder. I spoke
to him of my own accord, but it was noth-
ing about being in the office there.
Mr. Erwin–He testified there was only
one conversation since the homicide.
The Witness—That was all I ever had. I
have not spoken to him since about it.
Mr. Nye-I understand your testimony
yesterday afternoon that you never said
to any one else that you were in the office
on the forenoon of Nov. 30 from 10 to 11,
and that you never conversed with anybody
living on the subject of what you were
doing that day or where you were until
you were called onto the Witness stand? A.
I never said anything to anybody about it,
Stewart or anybody else, about being in the
office. -
Q. Not even to your lawyer? A. That is
a different question about the lawyer.
Q. What were you doing with those $1
bills in that box2 A. Kept them for
change.
Q. How long did you have them there?
A. I have had them two or three years. I
had $100 at one time.
Q. What kind of a box was it? A. The
same as the safe; unlocks with a key, turns
around.
Q. Did the box slip in the safe? A. No,
sir; it is fast to the safe, built in the safe.
Q. That had a separate lock, hadn’t it?
A. It had a separate lock, yes, sir. The
key was always put under the bottom till;
there is a place there where we put in
papers, and fill it with papers and put the
key under the papers.
Q. Is that the office cash drawer, is that
where you kept cash in the safe? A. There
is another one beside that.
Q. How many $1 bills did you have? A. I.
had between 40 and 50 at the time.
Q. Do you remember when you put them
in there? A: I had $100 there just as I
told you. I had not used any of them for



298 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
some time. They were mine. Harry never
used that safe in the world. There were
two safes in the office,
Q: Did you know that Mr. Goodsell tried
to have the officers let him take those $1
bills which Adry had left there, claiming
it was Harry's maoney? A: I never heard
anything about it.
Q. Claiming that Adry was keeping it
for Harry? A: I never heard anything
about that.
Q. You don't claim either of the boys
owned the $1 bills? A. Nary one owned
them. I owned them myself.
Q. Was that the only cash you kept in
the tin box? A. No, sir; I aint kept any
lately; I kept it in the other box.
Q. At that time was it the only cash you
kept in the box2 A. Yes.
Q. One dollar bills any handier for
change than $1 silver pieces? A. A little
handier; I always rather have $1 bills than
have silver. When I get hem I keep them.
Q. Do you know where you got them?
A. I got them in and laid them up; got
them in along and had a supply ahead so
I would have change any time.
Q. Were they all $1 bills? A. No, sir;
there were a few $2 bills. I don’t think
think there were more than two or three
$2 bills.
Q. When was it Blixt spoke to you about
getting the iron for the furnace? A. I
cannot tell just he time. I think the party
down there can tell the time I got hem. I
think it was along quite a while ago, along
in the spring some time; it might have
been May; I cannot tell what time.
Q. How long were they? A. From four
and a half to five feet long. They were
cut just his measure; he gave me the
measure to cut them. The whole length
of it would go in the furnace. Each was
gour and a half to five. I know the fur-
nace takes in four foot wood, but I don’t
know how much longer he gave me the
measure; I think they were cut just as he
ordered.
Q. What is the man's name down there
on Eleventh avenue, that you bought them
of? A. I don’t know his name. Mr. Scroll
is the man that went out with me and
stayed there while they cut them; I don’t
know his initials. He is now running a
store on the corner of Nicollet and Sec-
ond street, a clothing store.
. You went down there with a team
and hauled them up to the Ozark? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Where were they put in the Ozark?
A. They were thrown up there and he
took them down.
Q. Do you know where they were kept
in the basement? A. When he first set
them up near the heating tank, where the
hot water was. He said he used but one.
Q. Do you know whether he used one?
A. I don't know; I saw but one.
Q. Did you ever look in the furnace? A.
No, sir, I never looked in the furnace. He
told me I did not need but one then. I
saw one standing up there afterwards.
Q. That was last spring sometime? A.
I cannot say; but some time along in the
spring or summer.
Q. What tºne do you generally go to
bed in the evening? A. Different times;
sometimes go to bed early; generally go by
10 o’clock.
Q. Is it your general habit to retire
early? A. Yes; sometimes I sit up later. I
generally go to bed before my wife does.
Q. Will you testify positively whether
you were in the office on Monday forenoon,
Dee, 3, between 10 and 11? A. I cannot re-
member.
Q: Did you not say yesterday that you
were? A. That is the 30th we were talking
about.
Q. I am asking you now about Dec. 8d.
Monday. Were you in the office Monday
forenoon, from 10 to 11, Dec. 3, the day of
the murder?
Mr. Erwin. That has all been gone over.
It was asked several times yesterday.
The Witness. My opinion is I was there:
I am generally there in the forenoon. I
know I was there on the 30th.
Mr. Erwin. I will ask you whether you
recollect whether there was a messenger
boy in the office. You say you could not
remember who was in the office on that
day that Adry testified this conversation
took place, which was the 30th of Novem-
ber? Now, I want to call your attention, I
want to refresh your mind. Do you recol-
lect whether or not a messenger boy was
in that office there when Harry was there?
A. I don't remember seeing any.
Robert Reid.
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your business? A. Whole-
sale jewelry business.
Mr. Erwin. I would like to have another
witness sworn here if I could. Let this wit.
ness sit down here and I will have another
witness sworn. I want to ask the other
witness some questions.
William Yale
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your business? A. I am a
gunsmith. I work for Kennedy Bros.
. Are you familiar with the different
kind of cartridges that are manufactured
and sold in the gunsmith trade? A. Yes,
sir.
The witness was here handed a cartridge,
which the reporter took from a sealed en-
velope.
Q. This cartridge that is handed you is
what? A. This cartridge is Colt's revolver,
38 short.
Q. Is there another cartridge called long?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are those cartridges made of uni-
form size in the trade, those short ones?
A. All made by one factory.
Q. And are sold by the calibre, are they?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you in your possession a box
of cartridges similar to the one you have
in your hand? A. Yes, sir; I have some
here.
Q. Produce the box of cartridges which
are similar to these; produce the Colt's
short.
Witness here produced a box of
cartridges.
Q. What size calibre? A. 38 short.
Q. Similar to the one which the reporter
handed to you? A. The same cartridge.
Q. Have you taken one of these cart-
ridges out and weighed it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. One of those balls out and weighed
it? A. Yes, the man that was here be-
fore on the stand, he weighed the cart-
ridge.
Q. You took it out and gave Mr. Reid
the ball of one of these cartridges to weigh'
A. Yes.














oR. THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 299
Mr. Erwin–I would like to ask Mr. Reid
now. Mr. Reid did you weigh a ball from
this cartridge, as testified to by Mr. Yale?
Mr. Reid—Yes, sir.
Have you got an account of
weight of that cartridge? -
Mr. Reid—Yes, sir.
Q. Have you got that cartridge and the
bail that you weighed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Produce the ball from Colt’s 38 short
which you weighed. A. This is it.
Q. Did you seal it up, after
weighed it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is this the first time it has been open-
ed? A. Yes.
Q. Is that the shell?
shells. I weighed each one
These are Colt's 38 short.
Q. You may produce the bullets.
did these bullets weigh 2
objected to as immaterial, incompetent
and irrelevant.
Mr. Erwin–These are bullets of 38 short
cartridges.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant, immaterial and no foundation
laid
Mr. Erwin–I shall weigh here the ball
that was taken out of this woman and see
what cartridges it came from.
The Court—One cartridge loaded and the
other the ball?
Mr. Erwin–No, sir, I am only proving
the ball weight, that is all. It is the only
way to determine.
Mr. Nye-Blixt's testimony was that
Harry told him that those were longer
cartridges, the ones that were in the gun
when he went away. He did not know.
Mr. Erwin–He says he changed the cart-
ridges.
Mr. Nye-That is very true.
Mr. Erwin–If we should prove that these
are not extra long cartridges it is a seri-
ous thing for Blixt.
Mr. Nye-That don’t cut any figure in the
weight of the cartridge.
Mr. Erwin–The ball has one weight, a
short cartridge another weight. Each ball
has a different weight. That is what I want
to show.
Q: What did they weigh, these balls?
Objected to.
Overruled.
Mr. Nye-Which two are they? A. These
are Colt 38 short.
Mr. Erwin–What did they weigh 2 A.
Five pennyweights and five grains, or 125
grains each. They each weigh alike.
Q. They each weigh alike, and each
weigh five pennyweights and five grains?
A. Five pennyweights and five twenty-
fourths.
Q. These were the cartridges that were
handed you by Mr. William Yale? A.
They were brought there by him.
Mr. Erwin (to Mr. Yale)—Have you in
your possession a box of Colt's extra long?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Produce it. (Witness produces box.)
Q. What is this box produced? A. It
is 38 Colt's long.
Q. Have you weighed the ball of this
cartridge, caused it to be weighed? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. By whom? A. By this gentleman here
(referring to Mr. Reid).
Did you hand him from that box
cartridges to weigh, the balls to weigh’’
a. From that box here.
the
having
A. These are the
separately.
What
Mr. Erwin (to Mr. Reid)—Now, Mr.
Reid, produce the cartridges which he says
he handed you, Colt long 38.
(The witness here produced the
ridges.)
Mr. Erwin–Was that sealed up by you
after being weighed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is this the first time they have been
opened? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Produce the cartridge shells, and the
balls which you weighed. A. The ball is
the only thing weighed.
º Did you weigh these balls? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. What did they weigh 2 A. This
weighs six pennyweights and eight twen-
ty-fourths, and the other one weighs six
pennyweights and nine twenty-fourths.
Mr. Nye-Were there two of each 2 A.
There were two of each. -
Mr. Erwin–Mr. Reporter, will you hand
us that bullet?
(Mr. Wing, the reporter, here produced
the bullet.)
Mr. Erwin–Please weigh the bullet now
handed you. (The reporter hands the bullet
in issue to the witness and the witness pro-
ceeds to weigh it. -
The Witness—Five pennyweights and five
grains.
Mr. Erwin–This would then be a ball,
Mr. Reid, from a short cartridge, would it
not?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
immaterial and no foundation laid.
Sustained.
Objection.
CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MIR. Y.A.L.E.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Have you had much experience in the
weight of bullets after having been shot
from guns and coming in contact? A. Not
very much.
Q. Could you tell from the shape of it
whether 38 long or 38 short? A. It is hard
to tell; when it is a new bullet it is another
thing.
Q. Are there more grades of 38 calibre
than the two grades of 38 short and 38 long?
A No, sir.
Q. Are there any other different makes
of cartridges than these which you have
produced here, different in shape? A. No.
Q. The same calibre 2 A. Yes.
Q. What different makes of cartridges
are there? A. There is only 32 and 38
Colt's, and some bigger ones that need an-
other revolver.
Q. There are different establishments,
different houses, that make different cart-
ridges, don’t they? A. No, sir; all 38.
Q. But differ somewhat, do they not? A.
No, sir.
Q. How many different establishments do
you know that make the cartridges, 38 cali-
bre cartridges? A. There is only one fac-
tory in Bridgeport, and the Winchester, he
makes his own cartridges. There are only
the two factories here.
Q. Have you a 38 long there? A. Yes.
Q: Who took the cartridges over to Mr.
Reid? A. It was a man here from court:
I don’t know his name.
Mr. Erwin. Mr. Sweetser was the man,
Mr. Sweetser accompanied him.
Mr. Nye. Will you leave us a sample of
these long and short?
Mr. Erwin. I will put the box right in
the possession of the stence rapher; you can
take a sample.
cart-



300 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. I will ask you if you did weigh a 32
long? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin. Have you got a 32 long, Mr.
Reid weighed?
Mr. Reid. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin. We don’t claim that this ball
weighs 32 long; 32 long weighs only four
grains and some pennyweights, and is be-
neath this ball, but if you desire the tes-
timony, we will put it in.
Mr. Nye. You claim it is 38 short?
Mr. Erwin. Yes, sir, and I claim it is
above 32. There is only one question in
this case. There is a revolver in the pos-
session of Adry. He has a 32 and a 38. I
will admit here that even the long cart-
ridge from the 32, the small revolver, would
not weigh as much as this ball, and will
put the testimony in if you desire it.
Mr. Nye (to Mr. Yale). Are you acquaint-
ed., Mr. Yale, with the effect of shooting?
A. Yes.
Q. As to its diminution of weight. Does
it lose in friction? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the amount of loss varies ac-
cording to different circumstances? A.
Sometimes, yes, sir.
Q. What is the loss, I mean the differ-
ence in the weight of the ball when it is
put in a gun and after it is found, for in-
stance if it is emptied in a tree?
Mr. Erwin–I object to the tree.
Mr. Nye-Well, through a skull? A. I
never weighed it.
Q. Have you made a pretty close exam-
ination of cartridges, 38 long and short;
isn't there quite a variation of weight even
among 38 short? A. There is not very
much difference.
Q. Quite a variation among 38 long? A.
There is not very much difference. There
is some difference.
Q. Cartridges made by the same com-
pany are not always made exactly alike,
made a little different sometimes? A. All
pretty close. Not absolutely the same.
Q. Even the two 38 long that were
weighed by Mr. Ried were not of the same
weight? A. No, sir. There was one the
least little bit lower on weight than the
other one.
Q. But as matter of fact you would ex-
pect to find a variation all the Way
through? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The 38 long and 38 short are of the
same weight? A. No, sir, there is a little
difference.
Q. But they will vary; even one 38 long
will vary from another in weight, and one
38 short will vary from another 38 short
in weight? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Ther is considerable difference also
in the material, that is the lead? A. I
think noo.
Q. Does not lead vary in weight; the
same sized piece of lead from the same
mine perhaps, would have a different
weight from that of another? A. From 38
short and 38 long?
Q. Taking the same sized piece of lead?
A. Yes.
Q. And run it in a mould? A. Yes.
Q. would not that vary according to the
quality of the lead itself sometimes? A.
No, sir.
Q. Are you sure of that? A. Yes.
Q. You told me you had not had much
experience in weighing bullets? A. When
I make a bullet mold and put some lead in
there, and the bullet is all right, and when
I put another one in there, I say it is the
same weight of the first one.
Q. These two bullets that Mr. Reid
weighed were two 38 long? Did they have
exactly the same weight? A. Yes, sir.
Q. They were not the same; one was six
penny weights and eight twenty-fourths,
and one six pennyweights and nine-twenty-
fourths? A. Not much difference.
Q. Some difference? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do you account for that, isn't
that on account of the difference in the
quality of the lead? A. When you get the
lead, and it is the least little bit cold or
warm it makes a difference in the weight
of the bullet.
Q. That is, there is a difference of weight
according to the heat or cold? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then the intensity of the heat effects
the weight? A. Yes.
I show you the barrel of this re-
volver—that is rifled, is it not; that is a
rifled barrel? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Does that have the effect to tear off
the lead, tear off portions of the bullet as
it passes out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, you would naturally expect to
find the bullet, after benig shot out of a
gun, to weigh less than before it went in,
would you not? A. Well, that is hard to
tell.
Q. Well, have you had much experience in
that direction?
Mr. Erwin–Well he has answered that
question.
Mr. Nye-That is all.
Mr. Erwin–We offer in evidence the balls
that have been weighed—the cartridge
boxes, they are not in evidence, but so that
they may be all together in the hands
of the reporter, we will hand them in also.
I will state that the thirty-twos is the
Smith & Wesson manufacture, and I will
admit they weigh less than the bullet
found in the woman's head, which you can
put in evidence if you desire.
The Court—Did you weigh those balls
here now in the presence of the witness?
Mr. Erwin–No, sir. Mr. Reid, you
weighed them on these same scales here
with the same care that you weighed these
other balls?
The Witness—Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-Mr. Reid, have you weighed any
other balls than you have described here?
The Witness—Yes, sir, the 32.
Mr. Nye-Well, of the 38, short and long,
did you weigh any more than two of each?
The Witness—No, sir.
Mr. Nye-Well, I don’t think it is neces-
sary now, but I think it would be well for
you to experiment, in a series of experi-
ments, to see how they run.
Mr. Erwin–Well, that is rebuttal; it is
not competent at this time.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, we
had intended to put on the experts at this
time and they are not here, and we have
no other witnesses but the defendant. Now,
Dr. Jones has been telephoned to this
morning and we have tried to get him here
and we had hoped he would be here, but
he has not come yet. Dr. Williameson is
here and if the court will give us time to
try and find Dr. Jones we will do so and
put him on.
The Court—Probably he will be here by
the time you get through with Dr. William-
Son.




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
301
Mr. Erwin–We will have to read over
all the testimony.
The Court—They have heard it all—they
have been in court here.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if your honor please,
we cannot very well proceed without hav-
ing them both here.
The Court–Oh, I don’t think it is neces-
sary for them both to be here—one can be
here and give his testimony without the
other being here.
Mr. Erwin–Well, your honor, it is not
considered courtesy to introduce such tes-
timony as this unless the other witnesses
are here—are the state's experts here?
Mr. Hall–No, sir.
Mr. Erwin–I do not think it will be dis-
courteous to my witnesses if your honor
please, and I will call the defendant,
Harry T. Hayward.
Harry T. Hayward
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Hayward, you are the defendant
in this action, in which you are accused by
an indictment of the murder of Kitty Ging.
What is your full name, sir? A. Harry T.
Hayward.
Q. Where were you born, Mr. Hayward?
A. Macoupin county, Illinois.
Q. How long have you resided in the
state of Minnesota, that you know of did
you come here at an early age? A. Twenty-
five or 26 years ago; yes, sir.
Q. What is your age now, Mr. Hayward?
A. Twenty-nine.
Q. You are the son of Mr. Hayward,
senior, who was on the stand this morning?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And your mother was on the witness
stand yesterday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you are the brother of Mr. Adry
Hayward? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Blixt has testified against you,
and Mr. Adry Hayward has testified against
you? A. I understand that.
Q. Now, have they testified correctly?
A. They have not.
Mr. Nye-Well, I submit, that is an im-
proper question at this time.
Q. Has the testimony of Mr. Adry Hay-
ward, given upon the stand here, been true
or false? A. Almost wholly false.
Q. Do you know of any reason or cause
why he should have so testified against
you? A. I do.
Q. What is it?
Mr. Nye-Who has 2
Mr. Erwin–Adry Hayward.
Q. Tell the jury? A. What, you mean
the explanation of it?
Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-I object to that form of ques-
tion as incompetent, irrelevant and imma-
terial, and calling for a conclusion and
opinion.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q: What matters of trouble, difference or
fearfulness are there between you and
Adry?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial and assuming a
fact not yet proven.
The Court—The objection is sustained. I
suppose this is for the purpose of impeach-
ment?
Mr. Erwin–Oh, no, your honor, I am not
trying this whole case on the word im-
peaching: I am trying to have this wit-
ness explain to the jury why Adry Hay-
ward would testify falsely against him and
to give to the jury the facts in the matter.
The Court—Well, you have not laid the
foundation for it.
Mr. Erwin–I have laid the foundation for
it.
The Court—Well, repeat the question put
to Adry and let him deny it—you under-
stand how to lay the foundation for in-
peachmént?
Mr. Erwin–I am not trying to lay the
foundation for impeachment at his time.
º Court—Well, what are you trying to
o 2
Mr. Erwin–I am trying to show the
trouble, the differences, the misgivings,
that would lead Adry Hayward to testify
falsely against his brother.
The Court–We are not trying those mat-
ters at all. I cannot allow you to bring
anything in here only what you have
called Adry's attention to. You know it is
improper to ask those questions—you know
the law does not permit you to go on and
try ontside issues of that kind.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I offer to show, your
honor, that sometime in the spring of '94
Adry Hayward—
The Court—Well, put it in writing.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I will give it to the
stenographer. (Mr. Erwin here stepped up
to the reporter's table and dictated the
following offer:)
Mr. Erwin–I now offer to show by this
witness that some time in the spring of '94,
Adry Hayward, with a gang, or with other
persons, held up and robbed the defendant,
Miss Vedder and Miss Catherine Ging; that
the next day after the robbery—that Adry
Hayward took from the defendant in the
robbery a watch and $46 in money, and
Wrom Miss Vedder a ring. That the next
day after the robbery, Harry Hayward,
upon going into the office where Adry Hay-
ward was, discovered him in possession of
his watch; that he asked him where he
got the watch and Adry would not tell
him. That Harry Hayward then told him:
“That watch was taken from me in a
highway robbery last night, and you have
got to tell me where you got it.” Thai
Adry Hayward then and there refused tº
tell him where he got it; that Harry Hay-
ward then locked the door of the office,
shut the transom and told Adry Hayward
if he did not tell him he would whip him to
death; that Adry Hayward became very
much frightened and fell down upon his
knees and begged not to be injured and
said he would tell him all about it; that he
there confessed the fact of the highway
robbery, and said that he did not know it
was his brother until he heard his voice.
He said he could not give up the $46 be-
cause the other members of the gang had
it, and if he asked them about it he would
get killed. He then asked his brother to
forgive him and not to say anything about
it; that his brother promised he would not
tell anybody about it, and during the con-
versation that followed his brother told
him he did not see how his conscience could
allow him to do any such thing; that Adry
stated to him he had no conscience, that he
had passion for those things and never was
haunted or upbraided by his conscience for
his acts; that Adry Hayward from that
time on remained in that forgiving state



302
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
until along in the fall sometime when Har-
ry discovered that he was robbing his fath-
er, taking money from his father's busi-
ness; he therefore told Adry if he did not
stop robbing his father he would expose
the whole matter of his life and career,
and from that time his brother has plotted
against him.
Mr. Nye. Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
The court rules that some of it, perhaps,
might be proper, if there was a proper
foundation laid for it, but as a whole it
could not be admitted.
Mr. Erwin. We desire an exception. And
I will ask it in another way.
Q. You heard the testimony of your
father and mother and Adry in relation to
the trouble arising at a time when there
was a plain discrepancy in the accounts be-
tween your father and Adry 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. At that time did you have a contro-
versy with your brother as to what you
would do if he did not desist from that
practice with your father? A. I did.
Q. What conversation did you have with
him 2
Mr. Nye. Same objection.
The Court. When was this—at the time
your father and mother has stated?
The Witness. Yes, sir, at that time, be-
fore and after.
The Court. Well, what was said at the
time they testified to ?
The Witness. In the presence of
father and mother?
Mr. Erwin. No, what was said in that
controversy with his brother over that
money—what was said at that time?
The Court. You have not called his par-
ticular attention to it.
Mr. Erwin. What is the objection?
Mr. Nye. Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and not impeachment of his
brother, and no foundation laid, the atten-
tion of the witness not being called and he
not being interrogated upon that point.
The Court. The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin. Exception noted.
Q. You may state whether your brother
has been in fear of you making any ex-
posures of him which would be a motive
for him to conspire against you? A. He
has.
Mr. Nye—Wait a moment. I move to
strike that out, and I object to it as calling
for a conclusion, and incompetent, irrele-
vant and immaterial and no foundation
laid.
Mr. Erwin–This is only introducing a
matter I want him to testify about.
The Court—the answer will be stricken
out and the objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. You heard your brother testify that he
never saw Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he ever see Miss Ging that you
know of 2 A. He did.
Q. On what occasion A. In the spring of
the year, as I was driving between Lake of
the Isles and Lake Calhoun.
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as incompe-
tent, irrelevant and immaterial, and no
foundation laid, entirely immaterial. The
defense here, as far as Adry is concerned,
seems to be that he is insane. I don't un-
derstand they are implicating Adry with
my
this crime. Now, how is it material to sº.
that he knew Miss Ging?
The Court—Well, they are attempting to
show he has ill feeling against the defend-
ant and they have a right to show that
when they lay the proper foundation for it;
but they have not laid the proper founda-
tion so far as relating to the question he
has asked this witness.
Mr. Erwin–I am now trying to show that
he has seen Miss Ging and the circum-
stances under which he saw her.
Mr. Nye–Well, that is objected to as in-
competent, irrelevant and immaterial and
no foundation laid.
The Court—Well, he can state where he
saw her, but not the circumstances unier
which he saw her at present.
Q. Well, where did your brother Adry see
Miss Ging, just where? A. Well, I guess he
could not see her very plain—he probably
felt of her.
Q. Well, where was it? A. It was on a
dark road, a narrow, dark road, between
the Lake of the Isles and Lake Calhoun.
Q. What time? A. About 9 o'clock, at
night. I should say it was in the month of
May.
Q: Who else was present at the time ºne
saw Miss Ging? A. Well, another young
lady that I would not care to bring * .
Ilanne in here unless it was necessary—she
can be brought forward if necessary.
Q: Well, it will be necessary and she will
have to be brought forward—it was Miss
Vedder, wasn’t it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, under what circumstances did
he see Miss Ging?
Mr. Nye–Objected to as incompetent, in-
.." immaterial and no foundation
a 101.
- Mr. Erwin–May it please the Court, here
is a matter where I want to show absolute
perjury on the part of
The Court—I understand what you want
to show; the objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin-You have sustained this cº-
jection?
The Court—Yes, sir, to what you propºse
to show. I believe it is an insult to the
court,
out that testimony, to go on here and try
to show it in another way.
Mr. Erwin-I take an exception to yºur
honor's remark.
The Court—Well, I want to be treated
fairly, and I intend to be.
Mr. Erwin–I don't hardly understand
your honor's remarks. This is my position:
Mr. Adry Hayward has testified before this
jury he never saw Miss Ging. Now, what
I propose to show to this jury is that he
saw her under such circumstances that he
will not forget it.
The Court—I have ruled it out, and you
knew it before you asked the question.
Mr. Erwin–Now, if your honor rules on
that proposition that I cannot show that,
I must take an exception.
The Court—You cannot show what you
propose to show.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir; very good. I offer
now to show the same circumstances which
I offered to show in the first offer made
with this witness for the purpose of show-
ing circumstances which would compel the
truthful memory of Adry Hayward to re-
member having seen Miss Ging.
Mr. Nye-Same objection.
The Court—Same ruling.
when you know the court has ruled








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 303
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted. -
Q. Now, I want to interrogate you in
reference to your acquaintanceship, Knowl-
edge and relationship with Miss Catherine
gºing? A. Well, I became acquainted, with
her introduced to her in January, *94. -
º, in January, 94% A. In January.94.
I was introduced to her, I think, by Mrs.
speaker, who keeps the boarding hºuse,
or did at that time, at No. 6 South Thir-
teenth. I knew her, met her probably once
a week, and then twice a week, and by
the first of April I was fairly well a C-
quainted with her, and along in April We
probably got well acquainted, and in May
still more so, and in June still increasing:
and in July and August, and up to the
first of December, I suppose we would be
called lovers.
Q. I will ask you now whether at any
period, at the time when you were affect-
ionate and might be called lovers, whether
there was ever any improper relations be-
tween you? A. Never.
Mr. Nye well, I submit that is incom-
tent.
º Court—There is no claim of that kind
—the objection is overruled.
A. No, sir, she was a true and noble
girl, to the best of my belief, with me and
everybody—I believe it yet.
Q. Now, during your acquaintanceship
with her, did you go out riding, take Sup-
pers—just go and describe to the jury your
intimacy, familiarity, so the jury can See
as far as possible how you and Miss Ging
were together—how much you were togeth-
erº A. Well, I have been every place with
her, I suppose the same as any young
wonman would go with any young man.
Been to theaters, been driving, been
out to suppers, been to church, been call-
ing on her, walked down the street With
her, walked all around and been every
place that would come up that either of us
would want to go—dozens of times, prob-
ably, driving and to the theater and around
and everything. It would be impossible to
mention all of them.
Q. Now, Mr. Hayward, I will ask you in
regard to yourself at this point. A. Yes,
sur-
Q. I want to ask you as to your habit
or practice of playing cards, or gambling,
that has been brought out in the prose-
cution. State fully all about that to the
jury. A. Well, I suppose it is so. It is so—I
have gambled a pile, played high and lots
of it. But I have always meant to keep
it fairly quiet; of course, it is known
around by a great many people, but up to
the time of this occurrence I have aimed to
disguise it. That is, I have disguised it
from the public, but never from anybody
that knew me well; any young lady or man
that knew me well knew about my gam-
bling, because I made it a point to tell
every one of them. It was not news to
anybody who knew me well.
Q. In the course of your gambling what
games have you paid principally? A. Faro
and roulette.
Q. During your gambling at what points
have you played faro and roulette” A.
Every city in the United States, I guess,
every large city anyway, and a good many
small ones. -
Q. Well, mention to the jury where you
have been and played faro. A. Minneapo-
lis, St. Paul, Seattle, San Francisco, Los
Angeles, San Diego, Colorado Springs, Man-
atou Springs, Colorado; Glenwood Springs,
Denver, Pueblo, Cheyenne, New Orleans,
Omaha, Kansas City, Chicago, Duluth-not
Duluth, yes, a little in Duluth, and West
Superior, Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo–no,
not in Buffalo, Syracuse—well, would you
count the horse races?
Mr. Erwin–No, just where you played
faro. -
Mr. Nºye—I have no objection to horse
racing going in.
Mr. Erwin–Well,
Would.
A. New York city, several places in Mex-
ico, a number of those club houses near
New York city, along Long Branch and
Asbury Park, Gloucester and Norfolk—no,
I guess not at Norfolk.
Q. Well, you have named enough of them.
Over how many years has this practice of
betting at faro run? A. Oh, I don't know,
six years, I guess—seven years—oh, no.
Well, that New Orleans affair, when I was
down there—and also in San Antonio,
Texas, I forgot that—that New Orleans
affair was at the time of the World's Fair,
January, '5, I guess, or '85.
Q. Now, that the jury may understand it,
the game of faro is played by putting the
cards dealt into a box so that one card can
be pushed out at a time; the first card that
comes out in the losing card and the card
remaining in the box is the winning card,
is it not? A. That is right.
Q. And you staked your money upon the
turn of the card—if you bet upon the losing
card to win you lose, and if you are bet-
ting upon the losing card to lose you win.
If you bet upon the winning card to win
you win, and if you bet upon the losing
card to lose you lose? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It is considered one of the fairest and
most honorable games of gambling, is it
not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it is practiced professionally by a
great many men throughout the United
States and the world? A. Yes, sir. I think
it is, and as pastime for a great many
others.
Q. Has your gambling ever been attend-
ed with any other matter than simply the
making of money, by playing cards? A.
Any other matter, I don’t understand what
you mean.
Q. You always went up to win or lose?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, have you ever used any of the
tricks that might possibly be used in the
business? A. No, sir, I have never.
Q. It is one of the squarest games in
the world? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the game is arranged upon that
system, is it not? A. Yes, sir.
The dealer simply having the advan-
tage of splitting the bet where two cards
º: the same size come together? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. For instance, if two jacks come out
of the box together, and your money should
be staked on the jack, the dealer takes
half of your bet as a percentage for deal-
ing the game? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Otherwise, it is merely a game of
chance, is it not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, at this game of chance have
you wouldn’t, but I






304
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT:
you ever made or lost money? A. Some-
times I made and sometimes I lost.
Q. During your playing of this game,
state whether or not you kept about you
a large amount of money for the purpose
of gaming? A. Well, when I started out,
perhaps, to gamble, I always aimed to keep
a pretty large amount of money with me
and carry it with me, to have it in case
I needed it I could go into it to help me
out. That is, possibly, if I only had $200
or $300 and lost that, if I didn’t have any
more it would be gone, I would not get it
back; whereas, if I had $1,000 with me, the
chances are then I would have a better
chance of winning back what I lost; in
other words, the chances of winning with
$1,000 is better than with $300.
Q. Where did you usually carry your
money for this purpose? A. Well, two
places. I usually had quite an amount in
my pocket and also had a money belt, not
always, but generally.
Q: Did Miss Kittie Ging know of your
gambling? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, did she know it—did she know
it by hearsay, or did she know the details
of it at any time? A. Well, I think she
knew the details, the full particulars as
much as would be possible without being
right there.
Q. Was Miss Kittie Ging ever a partner of
yours in any investments in gambling? A.
She was.
Q. Now, state to the jury how that came
about and when it was and describe it
generally? A. The best recollection that I
have of it is, at the start she and another
young lady and a gentleman and myself
were at some place, in a restaurant, and
we ordered quite an elaborate meal, and it
takes quite a while to get it ready, and
this place where we were was close to a
gambling house, and we knew the young
ladies very well; so the gentleman and I
went out awhile, and I think—well, I say
this game was there that night, but I
would not be positive about that, although
that night, she didn’t put in any money,
but some of the crowd, I think pretty
nearly all of them were in. I know the
gentleman was in and one of the young
ladies; but it is my belief that she was
not in at that time.
Q. Did she know of this transaction af-
terwards? A. Well, I could not say.
Q. She was one of the girls that were
there that night? A. I have an idea she
was there. If she was there she knew of
it, and if she was not there this other girl
told her, so she must have known about it.
Q. Now, when first did she have any-
thing to do with risking money at faroº
A. Well, to the best of my recollection, one
day about noon, or in the morning, at the
boarding house we were all going down
town and I had quite a pocket full of non-
ey, and I told her and all the others about
my gambling, and we were going down
town, or might have come up before we
started; anyway I had quite a wad of mon-
ey, and was talking about going down and
gambling, and she had heard, I think, but
I would not swear to it, but I think she
referred then to the other time, and some
of the parties winning, and she wanted to
go in or there was talk between us re-
ferring to it. Anyway, to the best of my
belief she had $75 in her pocketbook and
she put it in with me.
Q. what do you mean
- - - by that, putting
it in with you, what was said and agreed
upon there? A. Well, I cannot remember
the conversation, but it would naturally be
that she would put it in if I should.
Q. Well, is that a gambler's phrase, if
She put in with me or with him? A. Yes,
Sir".
Q: What does that mean? Does that
mean putting in all of the money? A. No,
I never gambled with her money alone in
the world.
Q. Well, what does it mean? A: Well,
for instance, supposing she put in $75, and
the chances are I would put in enough to
make it $200 or $250, and if she put in $75
she would put in three-tenths of the
amount and I would put in seven-tenths,
and I would go and play that amount. If
there was any loss that would be the last
of it—there wasn't anything coming; if
there Was a. winning, why we
Would just take and divide it.
She would take three-ten ths of the
winnings and I would take seven-tenths, or
whatever there was. On the other hand,
if she went in one-half with me, one-half
of the capital, whatever I won, she would
have one-half of it.
Q. Now, you have described the manner,
state whether she did put any money in
with you to gamble, and if so give a de-
scription of the amounts and the history of
the circumstances, as near as you can 2 A.
Well, I think the $75 was the first time,
and whether she lost or won I don't know.
But may be the next time she put in again,
whether $75 or $200 I don't know, or wheth-
er $25—well, it never was $25, because she
never put in $25 in the world. And it may
be that the next time she lost, or might
have won; I cannot tell about that.
Q. Have you any record of those trans-
actions at all? A. Not at first. We went
in and we won or lost, and she got very
much interested in the game of course, I
had played a great deal, and of course, I
understood it—understood how it got a grip
upon some people; how they were fascinat-
ed with the game, and how some people be-
came completely devoted to it; completely
carried away with it; don't know what
they are doing. Well, it didn't strike me
that way. I always thought, well, you
may say, had a pretty good hold on my-
self. Well, I would talk to her about it.
and she said it was all right; and I talked
with her—I think at that point or some
other point we had made a loss, and I
wanted to get her even again. I know I
played at that time, and I got to thinking
it over, and I was scared about it, and I
know, if it is possible to play a careful
game, I did at that time. I know I kept
playing and almost got her even, and then
I was thinking of getting away then. So
I did. I stopped playing, went away, and
to her, and told her about it. But it didn't
make any difference with her. Well, that
stopped things for a while. But she want-
ed to go in again, and I explained to her
just how it was. I said: “Here I am gam-
bling your money, and it puts me in a very
peculiar position; nobody knows any-
thing about it; if I go around and lose two
or three thousand dollars of your money
I would be blamed for it.” She said: “No.
you won’t, either; that is all right.” Still,
I refused. Then was the time some writ-






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
ing or paper or something was got up, and
at that time she gave me that paper. It
was simply gotten up by me-
Q: What paper was that? A. The $370
paper here.
Q. Where is it?
Mr. Nye-It is in evidence.
Q. (Witness shown paper.) I hand you
exhibit “Q-1.” A. Yes, sir, that is the
paper.
Q. Well, what is that; read it to the
jury. A. Well this was made out right up
in her office. I wrote it myself. I don't
know whether it touches all the points in
law or not. I am not a lawyer but that is
what I wanted to get at. This reads: “May
9th, '94. This is to show that I have put
$375 into Harry T. Hayward's hands to
gamble with, win or lose.” I wrote it, and
she signed it, “Kate Ging.” Well, I kept
that simply to show if any trouble came
from it afterward, so she would not say,
*Well, I didn't give him any money to
gamble with.” I did this for my own pro-
tection. That is the time she was a little
behind, but it was all right, she won that
time.
Q. How much was won on that trip” A.
well, I don't remember, but taking that
and possibly more-let me see When We
went to Chicago, May 9th and June 12th-
she won at that time I know, and after that
she lost here in the city, and so on. Here
is a telegram, June 12th–well, that is when
I was well, June 12th I was down at Chi-
cago, and at that time she put in $500 and
I put in $500, and we had a capital of $1,000.
well, that telegram is not all here, but 1.
have a copy of it, and they are all prob-
ably on record at the Western Union. I
copied them, and I always kept a copy of
anything in reference to any gambling
transactions, always kept them in my
trunk. Now here are two of the first tele-
grams. I would telegraph to her how we
stood, and if I went up to some house I
would telegraph her and let her know
how we stood, because she was interested,
and naturally wanted to know how We
stood, and the first telegram I sent her was
“We are $350 winner.” That telegram did
not need any answer. The next telegram I
sent her was, “We are $800 winner.” That
means—that didn't mean we were both that
much winner, each of us, but I had possi-
bly $800 in my possession, and $400 of it be-,
longed to her. Here is another telegram, pos-
sibly these are all the same day, yes, this
is the next telegram, “We have made a
loss; telegraph me at Palmer House $115.”
She did not send it. Well, now, to the best
of my recollection is that I lost between
the time I telegraphed I was $800 winner-
let's see, $115 twice would be $230–I lost
$1,530—that left me $270, or I was $230 short
of $500. Well, $230 is a good deal of money,
but still, when you are gambling it is not
very much, it don’t last very long. So,
thinks I, it will be better if we get a little
more together—I had more money, I don’t
know how much I had, but I had a good
deal more than that. So I telegraphed her,
that is when I made the loss, and I said
for her to telegraph at Palmer House $115.
I did not make any explanation—I guess I
did—here it is underneath here, “Telegraph
me at Palmer House $115, this, together
with what I put in may pull us out:
if you fail in this we may have loss. Send
at once.” Well, that is the telegram—let's
see what her answer is; well, I don’t know
whether I gambled any more before I tel-
egraphed to her or not. Here is the answer
to that telegram. Mr. Eustis had this, but
I see he had a slip in one of them; he got
it and turned around; he got it wrong;
“If you are sure of winning
I will send it.” And here is my answer.
I did not want to offer any inducements to
her; I wanted to lay it before her just
exactly as it was; and my answer was this:
“Nothing is certain, our chances are good,
very good; if you fail in this, we will
have loss; spell my name correctly.” The
reason I put that in was that the telegram
she sent me before that she had spelled
my name wrong, or possibly the operator
had made the mistake in spelling it—in
fact, I found out afterwards that she had
made the mistake. “Spell my name cor-
rectly.” She had spelt my name in the pre-
vious telegarm “Hawyard.” And here is
the next one in answer to that, “Cannot
send, I hope you have not lost everything.
Kate.” Now, I remember that and you will
find that—“Our chances are now better
than ever, send it immediately. I think it.
will be all right.” Well, now, that tele-
gram as it may appear is not in answer to
this, “Can't send, hope you have not lost
everything,” but if you will look it up at
the office you will find that that telegram
is sent by the North American Telegraph
Company, and the other telegrams were
sent by the Western Union, and it was sent
possibly an hour after the other one, and
before I received her answer, and the
cause of that was I had gambled some with
this $270 and had won, not very heavily,
possibly I didn't win more than $250. But
anyway she telegraphed me $100 and the
$15 that was short. I never paid any at-
tention to that, and I put that in myself
and lost it.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o’clock
p. m.) -
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 21.
Harry T. Hayward
Direct examination resumed by Mr. Er-
Wilm.
Q. Mr. Hayward, when we adjourned at
dinner, you were just explaining the tele-
grams which you received from Miss Ging,
and the telegrams which you sent her in
relation to your joint gambling operations
at Chicago? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I wish you would continue your de-
scription of the gambling operations you
had with her as an interested party. A.
Can I have the telegrams again?
Q. Yes, sir.
(Telegrams were here handed to the wit-
ness.)
The Witness—I was about at that point
where I sent the telegram by the North-
western Telegraph Company, was I not?
Q. Yes, about that.
A. Well, that was—there was just one
more telegram passed between us; that was
from me to her, and this is it: “We are
out of Iuck, have lost completely.” That is
the last telegram.
Q. What time was that sent? A. That
was sent June 13.
Q. By what company? A. Next day af-
ter this; I am almost certain it was sent
by the Western Union. I think there was
one only by the North American; to the


306 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
best of my recollection this is the one.
Mr. Erwin–We ask for an order to ac-
company a subpoena upon the Western
Union to produce the telegrams described
in the testimony, and upon the North
American, described by Mr. Hayward. The
company has refused to produce telegrams
except on order of the court—
Mr. Nye-Have you subpoenaed them?
Mr. Erwin–We have not subpoenaed
them.
The Court—They ordinarily produce tele-
grams unless they are destroyed upon a
subpoena duces tecum.
The Witness—I think that is just exactly
the telegram.
The Court—They are all put in evidence.
Mr. Erwin–If that is admitted that these
are the telegrams, that will do; I was go-
ing to take that precaution.
Mr. Nye-For the purpose of the trial
and for arrangements to be made in the
future, both the attorneys for the defense
and prosecution would like to know at
this time if it will be agreeable to the
court to give us a vacation from tonight
until next Monday morning, both on ac-
count of making some preparations for the
trial of next week and on account of our
health and general exhaustion.
The Court—I have consulted with the
jury in reference to that matter, and they
are very anxious to get through with the
trial of this case. So far as I am person-
ally concerned, I am too. I would like to
work all day Saturday.
Mr. Erwin–A single suggestion. I very
much desire, and I think that the state
will join me in it, that the jury visit the
grounds where this murdered woman was
found; and take a drive a mile beyond on
the Excelsior road, showing the testimony
of Mr. Blixt in that connection, and that
day, that ride, could be incorporated into
one of these days of adjournment, and in
that way we can save time.
The Court—It is a very dangerous thing
to do in a case of this kind.
Mr. Erwin–The proposition I would make
as a motion for the defendant would be,
that the deputies in charge of the jury
drive them out upon that road. They can
see just where the tamarack swamp is,
and a mile beyond the tamarack swamp.
The Court—The statute which permits a
jury to go out and view the premises, is
only for the purpose of enlightening them
in reference to the testimony that is put
in. I don’t know that there is anybody
that can go and point out the place, either
one of them that you have now. Of course
they would not have any right to say any-
thing to the jury, except just to point to
the place.
Mr. Erwin–I would even go so far as not
to let them do it, but simply drive over the
road.
The Court—Somebody would have to in-
struct them as to the locality. I will see
about that. I think we will adjourn until
Monday morning. The question is about
taking the jury out. If they go out I
would have an attorney from each side
accompany them.
Mr. Erwin-I will make the motion that
between the time of the adjournment to-
night and the reconvening of the court
Monday morning, under such direction as
the court may make, the defendant re-
quests that the jury be allowed to be
driven over the ground and the place where
the body of the murdered woman was found
be pointed out to them.
The Court—There are other places just as
important as that.
Mr. Erwin-That will be considered here-
after.
The Court—Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Now, Mr. Hayward, what
were the facts in relation to these tele-
ãºms? Do these telegrams truthfully re-
flect what took place down there? A. They
do exactly. -
Q. How long were you in Chicago after
Yºu sent the last telegram? A. I left that
night for Minneapolis—that is, provided
You find that last telegram dated the 13th:
I left Chicago the night of the 13th. It is
barely possible that that might be the
same day. I left Chicago the night of the
13th, but I think the telegram sent last
was the 13th.
Q. Now, upon arriving in Minneapolis did
You see Miss Ging? A. I did. I saw her
right off. I reported to her.
- Q. Now, what other transactions, if any,
in the nature of gaming, did you have in
which she was interested? A. Well, this
is the last that I will positively swear to
that we had, but it is posible there might
have been some little gambling after that,
but this being June 12, 13, I will say posi-
tively that there was no gambling for any
money, or any connection whatever later
than the first of July.
Q. State, now, to the jury, how the re-
lation of gambling between you and he
ºne to be terminated. A. Let us string
that out; my second trip to Chicago wa
the 27th of July. Well, I did not have any
of her money that trip, but you will string
it along and close it, say the middle of
July, might be a little bit long, but, any-
Way, taking it altogether, she was winner
when I went to Chicago, and when I Caºlº
back she was loser, and to close up the
between $200 and $500 loser.
Q. Through the transactions? A. Yes,
sir, the total.
Q: How came they to be terminated:
why didn't she come in any more? A. I.
positively refused to do it any more. I
believe it was in June, but might possibly
have strung along until July. -
During this time did you lay stakes
or- have gambling operations with other
ladies of your acquaintance? A. No, sir.
Q. Smill stakes, small amounts? A. No,
sir, not after that.
During this time? A. Well, only in
the early part, that is all. -
Now, in relation to any money loaned
by Miss Ging to you; money deposited by
you with Miss Girg, money loaned by you
to Miss Ging, I wish you would give a his.
tory of those transactions to the jury. A.
I never borrowed any money of Miss Ging
Q. Did you ever deposit any money with
her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. State when, and under what circum-
stances, and what was the moving caus
of so doing? A. I will have to have those
notes to refer to.
(Notes were handed witness.)














of THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
307
Q. Confine your testimony first to any
ºtters which are not included in the $7,000
loan first.
A. All right, I will tell you now, speak-
ing of not loaning her any money, as Yºu
put it that way, that is really a mistake,
ºut not practically a loan. As I say, I
have often been at gambling and would lose
what money I had in my pocket, and have
money in a safe, and could not get it thau
night since I have been in the office, I
can get in the safe, but cannot go into the
office; had not a key to the office there
after 6 o'clock, or after the janitor is gone.
I could not get there and could not come,
for instance, if I did not have any money.
on one occasion, anyway, I came home
there one night, but this was when she was
living at 6 Thirteenth street south-I think
she moved away from there, I believe the
first part of September–probably the mid-
ale of September—in September some time,
to the best of my recollection, although I
am not sure of that, it seems to me that I
came up there one night to tell her about
my gambling after that, and I was broke,
and I think she loaned me some money one
night there, just over night I borrowed it
and gave it to her the next day. It was
not much, because she would never have
much along with her. I don’t think I ever
saw her carrying, barring this restaurant
episode, I don't think I ever saw her have-
she might some time—I have seen her have
money in check when she said she collected
it—she never carried any amount over $50.
It was unusual for her to have that much.
She was conservative and business-like,
and deposited her money in a bank; at
east I supposed so; I did not know it, only
what she told me; and certainly she was
not in the habit of carrying money around.
Q. Outside these transactions, which do
you remember, and which do you not re-
member, and which are not important here,
what transactions in the nature of a de-
posit did you make to her?
A. Now there is July 19th; now, I can,
since I see that, I strung out July 19th, I
am very positive, I could not say I have
gambled any money after that, be-
cause during these times some-
times would be gambling
and she said, “Well, you put it in, and I
will pay you.” I told her I did not think
that was the way to do business, to loan
money for gambling transactions. And
when I let her have that money I believed
that she did not gamble, and to my knowl-
edge she has never gambled since that
time, but at that time when she stopped,
when I would not take her money any
more, she was displeased at it, and seemed
to be interested in it, and to want to gam-
ble; but I supposed she had stopped and
had no reason to know but what she did
stop, but sometimes she expressed a reluc-
tance at it, because I would not take her
money any more. Well, at this time, either
later or earlier, she has always told me
along up to a certain time that she had her
money deposited with Jones & Sons, always
had it there, and along this time I suppose
this is the time previous to the burning ot
the Hamil mill, I know that she spoke
about wanting to get that mortgage cash-
ed, in fact I tried to get it cashed for her,
called in Mr. Gettelson here as a witness,
and even went to the Farmers and Me.
chanics Bank, Mr. Moulton, and tried to
get him to cash it, and I did not know
what it was a mortgage, I thought, on city
property—I did not know the full particº-
lars of it.
“Yes, we will make a loan to her, or even
cash it at a reasonable discount.” And
went back then to her to get the full
particulars; and she referred me to Jones
& Sons. I went in there with an order
from her to Jones & Sons, they showed me
the mortgage, the date of it, all about it.
and found out it was a mill in the countrº
and then went to the Farmers and Me-
chanics Bank, and Moulton saw it was not
city property, and did not want to have
anything to do with it. I went also to Mr.
Pottle, money loaner, and I don’t know–
it struck me he said he would cash it sonne
way or other—well, I don't know—he did
not cash it any way. I made a number of
efforts to get it cashed. And while she did
not get it cashed, and we did not get any
money on it, and she was wanting to raise
to the best of my recollection at that time
a thousand dollars—I think the mortgage
was more than that, $1,500; and I think
that first note, I think you might say it
was a request on her part to borrow the
money of me; I let her have that $500, and
I know she got, or told me she got $500
somewhere else; I don’t think she told me
Jones & Sons, I don’t know but she got
$500 somewhere else, and then with this
money she had $1,000.
Q: What exhibit is that? A. Exhibit 1.
That is $500, July 19, 1894, on demand, and
you see the rate of per cent of interest
is crossed out, not drawing interest, be-
cause it was a deposit; these first three
years you might say she was acting as a
repository for this money that I would
give her to keep, you might say, for me.
No interest upon it.
Q. When next after this time did you
either have money, or deposit any money
with her?
A. After the $500?
Q. Yes, after the $500.
A. Well, September 3, $1,000—I will ten
you; now, I think that note to the best of
my recollection is, the date of it is exact.
but this I would not swear to, because I
may have given her the money sometime
when I had it and say “Here, you keep
that,” and then get the notes from her
afterwards. Never was very exact on that
point. I got it Sept. 3. -
Q. When did you give her the money
that represents that money, if you got it?
A. If I got it I gave it to her. I cannot
swear whether Sept. 3; I cannot swear it
Was not.
Q. This exhibit is a $1,000 note dated
Sept. 3, 1894. It has no per cent in it; per
cent is crossed out. Now, what do you
know in relation to this note that she
made—this $1,000? A. Well, at that time?
Q. At that time or immediately before.
A. That is the idea, yes.
Q. Where did you pay her this money,
this $1,000; where was she when you let
her have the $1,000? A. Well, I don't know.
but I know once, having that restaurant
again called to my mind, I know I let her
have some money in that restaurant,
Barge's restaurant.
time, and I know the note was not written
there because I never had any notes there:
and I believe that the $1,000, the note dated
I went down there and he said
I know that was one




303
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Nov. 3, was paid to her in Barge's restau-
rant. I know I had been gambling and I
had made a winning.
Q. How much money did she have inde-
pendent of that loan of yours before you
made her the loan, before you made the
$7,000 loan 2 A. $2,500.
Q. Represented by these three first notes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when was this money to be paid
you, what was the arrangement about the
notes, both the notes given? A. The
notes, I gave them to her and says, “Here,
you keep this for me; when I want it I
will get it.” That was the idea, No time
and no interest.
Q. Here is $500 and here is $1,000. A. Yes.
Mr. Erwin–Exhibits T, S and R, one is
for $500, July 19, without interest, payable
on demand. The other is for Sept. 3, for
$1,000, without interest, payable on demand;
and the third is for Nov. 3, for $1,000.
The Witness—That was just before I
went to Chicago.
Mr. Erwin–Without interest, payable on
demand. I want to show these to the jury.
(Mr. Erwin here showed the jury the
notes.)
Q. I won't call that up for a moment.
Now, when was the question of your mak-
ing her a loan to go into business, or the
question of her going into business, upon a
large scale, and the manner of it, includ-
ing the insurnace or anything else, when
was that first broached or talked about be-
tween you and her? A. I don’t know; it
started a little talk and so on, I should say
within the summer time; well, it was the
first of September, I guess.
Now, who started that; how did it come
up? A. She started it.
Q. In what way? A. Well, I know that
she told me that she was at one time think-
ing of going into business with Mrs. Mur-
ray; in fact, I guess they came within,
well, they nearly went in—I know they
talked it over, so Miss Ging told me, and
she came very near being Mrs. Murray's
partner.
Q: What was Mrs. Murray's business?
A. Millinery, on Nicollet avenue, and af-
terwards her and Mrs. Murray were just
going in and at the last moment Miss
Ging thought it would not do. That was
the idea. She was going in and going in
alone and have a millinery store and dress-
inaking in connection with it; and that was
what this money was for; $10,000 was what
she calculated it was going to take; and
she had $3,000 of her own, and altogether
her capital stock was to be $10,000. This
$2,500 of mine, this first note, they were
not to put in that at all.
Q. It was not to be in that stock? A.
No. sir.
Q. she was to put in $3,000 herself? A.
And I had to put in the $7,000.
Q. You were to loan her the $7,000 and
put it in? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What was the agreement between you
and her as to this $7,000 when you got down
well, I was to have an interest in the
business, I know, like I have heard it. I
I was to get 9 per cent interest on that
money, and I was to have a chattel mort-
gage on the goods, on the stock
of goods, and this life insurance
was put in, but it never was broached as
security, because I did not consider the life
insurance, to a stranger I would not loan
$5,000 on it; I did not consider that any se-
curity at all; but it was talked, I know,
and she had been talking along about get-
ting her life insured, and I know I had
heard often of policies, of turning policies
over, and I thought it over and thought it
over in my mind, and thought it was a
good thing; and as soon as she went into
business—well, I knew she would make a
success of it, at least I thought so.
Q: What made you think so? A. Be-
cause she was smart and she knew how to
run things. She always ran her business
in a business way, and she had been
there a number of years and made a thor-
ough success of it. She was a thor-
ough business woman; and I thought from
what I knew, thoroughly understood how to
attend to business.
Q. Was she a woman of more business
than sentiment? A. Yes, sir four times as
much. I think she had more sense about
business than most men, a good deal. They
say, 97 people out of every 100 fail who go
in business. I certainly would put her as
one of these three winning ones. That is
the way I looked at her.
Q. In what way did you come to assist
her in ascertaining how to insure her life,
in order that the policies might be used
as collateral to your loan? A. Well, at
first I did not; she talked a good deal
about this $7,000, and you might say coaxed
me about it; I did not really, at first I
did not want to do it. I did not want to
loan it to her. I know I put her off quite
a while, and advised with Waterman about
it, as he stated. I guess that was along in
September. Well, he really advised me
not to, telling me he was working for Bas-
sett in the lumber business, and said he
would rather put it in the lumber busi-
ness. I told him that I did not care any-
thing about any business, that I was not
much of a hand to go into business, and
did not think that I would ever be satis-
fied with stepping down and going into
any business. I never did take much stock
in a store, or anything of that kind any-
Way.
Q. After you advised with Waterman,
had she a talk with you about it? A. It
went on that way and then this insurance
came up, and she said that she was going
to get her life insured and give ample
security as an inducement. The first time
that it was broached to me, I laughed at
it, about the insurance being anything.
As a matter of fact, policies I did not con-
sider them worth actual collateral value,
although it would probably be half of the
premium, perhaps but $20–that is the way
I looked at it. Another way I looked at it,
that as long as she ran the business and
lived, it would be a success; but on the
other hand if she died, I did not consider
a $7,000 mortgage on a $10,000 stock of milli-
neary good; and besides I know there was
talk that she was going to put in a floor,
some kind of mosaic floor, and that was to
be a big expense, and I suppose the fix-
tures and everything would possibly cost,
I did not know, two, three or four thou-
sand dollars. That you might say would be
a dead loss. Anyway, if she lived right
along she could pay the interest and be all
right. On the other hand, if she died I
did not think that the chattel mortgage




































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
309
would be very good, although it would be
a help. -
Q: What finally did you agree in refer-
ence to insurance and what did you say in
reference to assisting her in obtaining in-
surance? A. I told her I would let her
have it after a while; that I would do it;
and even after that I talked with Water-
man again and told Waterman I kind of
wished I had not done it; and, in fact, I
came near backing out the last minute,
rather, two weeks before.
Q: What did you do in reference to get-
ting insurance for her? A. Well, the first
thing—well, I think the first time was
well, I suppose, was over in the Northwest-
ern, across the street, over into the block
of the National Bank of Commerce, fourth
floor; the man was up here and testified—
the New England—I think that is the first
place that I got any pointers. I am pretty
sure it is, No, I went first into the North-
western, in the same building, in the rear
end of it. I was in there, but I did not
have any talk. The agent there talked me
to death. I could not ask any questions
there at all, could not get any chance, and
I left him.
Q. That is all right? A. That is a fact.
could not get a chance to ask any ques-
tions.
Q. I was kicked out of a place two or
three times when I was agent for a life
insurance company. A. I did not get a
chance to tell him. I did not want the in-
surance, I went out and I think I went
into this place. I don't know. I believe
first that I asked a man in an office in the
Oneida Block; and I used to know Mr.
Rowley in the office. I believe I was in
there first, and I believe he told me about
the New England, and that they took
women risks, and also the New York Life.
Well, I got some rates somewhere—New
York Life and this New England, and I
got this Northwestern; and so I went
around there and talked to Mr. Pierce.
Q: What did you think of these talks,
substantially as the agents testified? A.
Yes, I think they are all straight.
Q. You think they are all straight? A.
Yes, sir.
Q: Who did you report these talks to?
A. Miss Ging; I told her about them.
Q. Now, you were not with her, it seems,
by the former testimony, when she did go
to take out insurance from the North-
western Life? A. Not the Northwestern
Life—the New York Life, I went over there
and had a talk with Mr. Pierce—he did not
seem to testify to that, but I talked about
it being a loan for security, and so on, and
told her that she went up there, and he
understood when she came that it was to
be for a loan. Well, we talked a bit that
way. He gave her, I think—the policy that
he showed me I know that it was to be
$7,000 originally, but some way they got
over there and he gave her a policy for
$5,000; the premium of the $5,000 policy that
he gave her amounted to just the same,
that is within a few dollars or cents, as
the premium with a $7,000 policy, that he
told me about; so I think in that way they
made the mistake, or else she changed it
some way, because the policy she got is a
20 year endowment, that is, paid up at the
end of 20 years; and I think the policy he
showed me, they were to pay 20 years, and
then at the end of 20 years the payments
dropped; the premium was to be smaller,
and naturally it would not cost so much
to start; but anyway she got over there
and got a $5,000 policy instead of $7,000.
Well, when she was getting it and before,
I told her what I found out, and I
gave her the figures, I think, and
on a card, and she was going over
there and was getting it—I supposed
she was getting it all right, and I saw
she got it for $5,000. Well, I think I was
in the office with her at the time; I think
I went over with her to the New York
Life office, and I know I had a little talk
there in conference with Mr. Pierce. He
did not seem to remember it, but I know
I thought it ought to be $7,000. But she
said, “I know the loan against it was to
be $7,000, but I thought the policy was
$5,000.” Well, I did not say much about
it. I said, “Well, it didn't make any dif-
ference.” I know she said she had been
talking and had been going to have her life
insured in an accident policy, and had
told me about some lady that runs a dress-
making establishment around the city
there, quite a prominent name on Nicollet
avenue; anyway that she knew had taken
an accident policy out and she having
sprained her foot a number of different
times, so that the accident companies would
not insure her any more because she had
so many accidents. Anyway, Miss Ging
had been planning on an accident policy
quite awhile. Said she would turn that
over to me. I said, “It is all right; it don’t
make any difference.” So she went and
did that and got the accident policy; al-
though that accident policy was virtually
accidental that she had it or I had it.
Q. That was not in your contemplation?
A. Not at all.
Q. When you talked about the loan you
contemplated having— A. $7,000 in the New
York Life policy, but when it was cut-down
to $5,000, I calculated to have $5,000.
Q. She got the $5,000 insurance policy,
in the accident company, and turned that
over to you? A. Yes.
Q. That was not contemplated between
you and her or agreed upon between you
and her? A. No, sir; when I took the as-
signment of this accident policy up to the
accident office, and he spoke something
about the other policy, New York Life,
and was not a very good policy—I won't Say
that he run the company down, but he
thought that his company was a better
company, and wanted to take her life in-
surance in his company. I says, “I tell
you what I wish you to do; I want you to
take this accident policy, $5,000, and give
her a $2,000 life insurance policy in the
straight life.” He says, “I will have to
talk with her and see if I can't get her
to take a $10,000 life policy in my company.”
And I know he said he would throw in the
accident policy if she would take the other.
I told him I did not know anything about
it. I will talk to her about it. That is the
last talk I had with him.
Q. Now, do you know anything about her
renting a store, or endeavoring to rent a
store? A: Well, the best of my belief she
started in and tried to rent a store.
Q. What store? A. As near as I can un-
derstand-
Mr. Nye-If you don't know don't testify.




310 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
-
Mr. Erwin–What did she represent to
you? A. I know what she told me; I can
testify to that.
Q: What did she represent to you about
hiring a store?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant,
and immaterial, and not the best of evi-
dence.
Objection sustained. Exception.
A. I can say what she told me.
Mr. Erwin–No, you cannot; not about
that you cannot say. -
The Witness—You can get the agent over
there to come over, I guess. I guess Miss
Ireland went with her the day, as I under-
stand it, when she rented the store; tried
to rent it. -
The Court—we will have to establish that
by somebody that knows the fact.
Mr. Erwin–Now, did you talk with per-
sons, and if so, what persons, with refer-
ence to the feasibility of loaning this
amount of money—for instance, Albert
Johnson has been testified to here? A:
Yes, I talked with him, although I did not
do it for advice, because before I told him I
knew what his answer would be. -
Q. Did you talk with him substantially
as given by the testimony of Adry here, in
elation to the loan? A. Yes, sir, I did. I
don't think I told him I was going into
business; I told him I was going to fur-
inish money for business.
Q. Did you at that time tell him anything
about your going to have a share in the
profits? A. Well, I don’t remember, but
I know there was a talk. I had a talk with
Miss Ging about that at first, and there
was a kind of change around in the plans,
that I was first to have an interest in the
profits, and then we fixed it and there was
to be 9 per cent interest and no interest in
the profits. That was the way it was set-
tled "on. Then I talked with Mr. Johnson.
Q: What others did you talk With 2 A.
waterman, Miss Vedder, I think. I will
tell you; I never told Miss Vedder directly
that I was furnishing money, but she un-
derstood it perfectly the same way, and
the same way with Miss Ireland; I think
Miss Ireland knew she was going into the
business, and understood I was to furnish
money, although I never told her direct 1
was to furnish it, although I think she
understood it directly.
Q. Now, I will come right down to the
loan itself? A. Well, now, Brewster, in
the accident office there, when I got the life
insurance policy, accident on my mother,
I had heard so much talk about assign-
ment, and different ways of doing it, I
heard so much about assignment being
good one way and bad another that I came
to the conclusion that nobody knew any-
thing about it, and I kind of dropped the
whole thing and went off; and went up to
the office of Brewster, and I took out that
accident policy more for—I don't know;
there was a stranger in the office with
Brewster, and he was the one I asked—I did
it more so I would have a right to ask some
questions about anything else. I did not
care anything about the policy. I took it
and paid the quarterly premium and asked
Son-o questions of this gentleman
who was in the office with Mr.
Brewster about assignment; and they
told me practically about the same as the
others did. I told Brewster then I was
sometime, then I told him, I said: “I am
going to make a loan of 7,000. his lº
told him a lady in º "º
º: I feel pretty sure I told him. in
That was at the time that policy was date.
in favor ºf mother; I think the 15th of
vember-that is the time I told Brewster
Q: What other persons did you talk with:
A. My brother testified, telling him I ºs
going to make a loan. I don't know that I
told him about the business. Well ºn
I had a talk; I did not ten the fun ºl
ticulars, but Mr. Fitchette—that is Coffee
John-in his restaurant next to the Oneida.
Block—now, he is a man who has º
through the mill, used to gamble, knows I
gambled, and has given me advice on that
point a number of times; has advised ºne
to stop it. He said: “I know when you first
started in. I know you did not gamble,” A. -
#"...º.º. you could tell me that.”
e O Kno - - --
me to stop it. W about it and advised
Q. You had advised with him in relation
to. this manner of making a loanº A
will tell you about that, about gambia
After he told me that and talked to
was about, then, I should say, in November
going to stop it.” I says: “I am going tº
put this money out in such a Way. Taº,
going to loan some money; I told him, “I
am going to loan it out so I can’t get it.”
That is one of the reasons I let her have it.
I would not have loaned that on first more
Eage on the West Hotel, although the se.
curity would have been a good deal better
than this; I would not have done it in that
way; because I wanted it in such shape
that I could not get hold of it; and stated
that while I would like to give a loan my
self on his place where he told me about
having a mortgage on it of somebody, I
don’t know, there was something or other,
rate per cent interest, or something not
exactly right, and he would like to change
it, anyway. And I told him I was going to
loan this at some place else. That is the
sum and substance of the conversation with
him. May be he will tell that after awhile.
Q. That is all you think now that you
talked? A. Well, I did talk with my
brother about it, but I don’t know whether
you want to bring it in. He knew all about
my affairs.
Q. Your brother Adry? A. Yes, sir. I
talked with him. He knew all about my
affairs right along. Everything, you might
Say.
Q. Now, what time did you go to Chi-
cago; on what day of the month? A. What
trip?
The last trip before the loan 2 A. I.
left for there the 3d day of November, the
same date of this note.
Q. That is the time you went down with
Mr. Garrity? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have any money while in Chi-
cago? A. Yes, took it down there with me
and brought it back with me, and did not
gamble there. I took the money down with
me and brought it back, and did not gam-
ble down there.
Q. You heard the testimony of Mr. Good-
sell? A. I heard the testimony of Mr. Good-
sell. It is substantially correct.
Q. You heard the testimony of Mr. Gºr-
rity? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Of having money in your pocket, large
package of bills? A. Yes, that is cº-
rect.







































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
311
Q. You heard the testimony of Mr. Wells,
the banker, who paid you six or seven
thousand dollars in $100 bills? A. That is
practically all right, yes, sir.
Now, what was the reason of carry-
ink $100 bills in place of small money? A.
well, you get three or four thousand dol-
lars or more in ten dollar bills or twenty
dollar bills, and you have to carry a trunk
to put it in.
q. It was so you could carry it more
easily in your money belt? A. Well, if
you get larger bills than $100, it is almost
impossible to get them changed, that is,
outside a gambling house.
Q. That is the reason for your accumu-
lation of the hundreds? A. Yes, I have
always made a specialty of $100 bills right
straight along for years.
Q. Now, in relation to pawning goods,
pawning rings, did you ever have any
rings of Miss Ging's? A. I think about
the time of the first note, $500 note, some-
where in that neighborhood, that I pawned
a ring for her once.
Q. what were the circumstances, and
what did she want to do? A. She wanted
to raise some money about that time,
$1,000; I understood it was something about
a loan at Jones & Sons', wanted to raise
$1,000.
Q. What kind of a ring did she give
you, and when did you pawn it? A. It
is a ring that she always wore, a diamond
with quite a heavy gold setting, a ring, I
understand she has had for years. I know
for certain where she got it. I pawned it
down to Mr. Gittleson's, I got I think $60
on it. He has probably the record of it
there, because I know he gave me a ticket
for it. Whenever I used to put anything
there I never got any ticket; just put them
in there and got them when I wanted them.
I told him I wanted a ticket at the time,
and possibly I would not redeem it. I know
I gave her the ticket afterwards, and she
gave it back to me, and I got it out for her
after that.
Q. She gave the ticket back to you, and
you took the ring out of pawn at what
time? A. I don’t know. After that some
time may be, I can’t say if it was in the
middle, I took it out. If I pawned it the
first of September, I probably took it out
the middle of September.
Q. Have you any other recollection of
pawning that you had anything to do
with? A. Never pawned anything, but
along after that some time, well, the ring
she had she would never tell me certain
where she got it, and I had heard from
other people, and asked her about it and
she never would deny it or affirm it, and
I thought my ideas were right on it. It
had been an engagement ring of hers, been
given to her by some gentleman. I was
always trying to get her to get rid of it,
and she hung on to it pretty tight. I
know at that time I told her I would buy
the ring of her if she wanted the money,
and I did, and I paid her $150 to get it,
and it was not worth more than $125.
Q. You wanted to get that particular
ring away from her? A. Yes, sir, I kind
of did then.
Q. Because you supposed it to be an en-
gagement ring? A. I am pretty certain it
was now, although I don’t know sure.
Q. What became of that ring? A. I.
guess Gittleson has got it now; that is, it
is not the same ring. It is the same ring,
but he don't know; it is the same ring; I
did not like the setting and I changed it.
got it put in another set. The diamond is
the same; but it is not the same ring; Git-
tleson don't know anything about it being
the same ring.
Q. Does that complete all the transac-
tions like the other transactions? A. No,
sir, there was another ring she had, had a
very small diamond, solitaire ring, was not
a good diamond, rather yellow. At one
time she was going to give it to Miss Ire-
land, and I tried to get her to give it. She
decided to sell it, and when I went to Chi-
cago the last time, some time before that
I bought her diamond ring, and this other.
She gave it to me to sell, stated it was
worth $80. I told her it was not worth $80,
and knew it was not, and I did not want
that ring any way; and I would see what I
could do with it. I don't know but I did try
to sell it down there, but I could not; I
found I could pawn a diamond ring for
more than I could sell it for, so I did. And
brought back and gave her—I don’t know
that I gave her the pawn ticket—I guess
I kept the pawn ticket—I have it now down
there now, for $30, I think, $35. It is prob-
ably down there now.
Q. What did you do with the money you
got? A. Well, I gave her that money.
That is, I never gave her enough to pay
her for the ring, but the money that it
was pawned for she got that. But I sup-
pose that I would naturally owe her rep-
resentatives what equity there is in it.
The Court—When was that? A. When I
took it from her?
The Court—When you gave it to her? A.
I gave her the money after I got back in
November some time, well, right after I
got back.
Mr. Erwin–That completes all transac-
tions with her outside except the loan, as
far as you can remember now? A. As far
as I can remember, yes, sir.
Q. Now, these notes are witnessed, these
two? A. Yes, this one.
Q. You heard the testimony of Lawyer
Angell as to his advice? A. Yes.
Q. You recollect his testimony as sub-
stantially correct upon his advice to you?
A. I think it is, yes, as near as I can get
at it.
Q. You see this note is witnessed? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you on whose advice this
note was witnessed when it was executed 2
A. Well, I think on his advice it was
thought to be a good thing. In fact, the
reason that I told him, the reason that he
thought it would be a good thing, was be-
cause I mentioned to him how I stood on
money matters; the reason that I kept
money out of banks, and so on. And then
he thought it was an extra good thing.
Q. Now, on that day that you made this
loan, or the day before, when was it that
this note was prepared, the loan note? A.
I think it was prepared that very morning:
in fact, I know it was, the same morning
of the loan; that and the two assignments;
these little slips—they ought to come with
that, too.
Q. The note was prepared that morning?
A. Yes, that and two partial assignments.



312 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
(Witness was here shown the two assign-
ments and the note.)
The Witness–Yes, the note and the two
assignments were written both that morn-
ing; that is, barring the number; that was
not written; did not have the policy then;
but the main part of it was all written; all
except the number of the policies.
Q. Now, the other assignment here, that
was prepared later, was it? A. The main
assignment?
Q. Yes, sir. A. Well, that was signed
the Wednesday following the 28th.
The Court–Accident policies?
A. Both of them; both partial assign-
ments, barring the number, were made on
Saturday, and the main assignment fol.
lowing on Wednesday.
Q. You heard Mr. Witherspoon's testi-
mony as to the signing of the note? A.
Yes. -
Q. You may describe in your own way—
of course it has been desribed by other
witnesses, but I wish you to describe it.
A. The way the loan was made?
Q. Yes, the way the loan was made? A.
I will describe it, I believe, just exactly
as I described it to Mr. Eustis at the
office.
Q. How was it made? A. At the office.
Now, here is a table in the first office
as you come in. I am supposed to be
behind this, behind this table. Here is
the end of the table. Over there is the
front of it, and right over there is where
you come in from the hall. Here is the
partition and here is another door, two
doors. I sat right there. I don’t know
whether Blixt or Miss Ging came in first.
I don’t know, but it seems to me that Miss
Ging came in there once, and either I had
got things ready, or not, I don’t know.
It seems to me that she came in there
once, and she went away and came back.
Well, anyway, came in, and when she
did come in for the loan either she was
there first or Blixt first—I don’t know;
I don't know nothing about that, but it
strikes me Miss Ging was there first, sit-
ting there, and I was here writing out—
I think I had some thing else—I think I
had a letter there first. Anyway, I had
the note and the two assignments; whether
I had those partial assignments in the
other room or not I cannot say sure; any-
way I had the note right there at the table;
and when she came in and Blixt came in—
I know now—when Blixt came in I said,
“Hello, Blixt. You are just in time for a
witness.” He said, “All right.” And I
then got up and went out in the hall, rang
the elevator boy up, Jack Witherspoon, and
he came in the office, stood in front of
the table with both of them, and Miss Ging
then was sitting in a chair behind the
table. I suppose she took the seat while
I was going out. Anyway when I came
back she was there with a pen in her
hand, and Witherspoon came in and I
stood there and she signed the note. I
turned it around—I don’t know whether
she got out of the chair. I think Wither-
spoon said he signed it standing up; any-
way he signed it. And Blixt signed as a
witness; whether they took the chair to do
it, I don’t know, but they signed as wit-
nesses in the presence of each other. With-
erspoon went out immediately, because he
had to run the elevator and the bell was
ringing all the time; and I know the money
was lying on the table in two packages.
and Witherspoon went out after she sign-
ed the note, or after Blixt had. I says,
“Now, you can count the money.” Fol
some reason or other. I know I wanted tº,
get in that chair, and I told her, “You
better count it,” and there being no table
or desk, I said to go there and count it,
and she took the two packages and went
in, and the package with $100 bills, when
she picked it up, and it broke, that is, it
came apart, and I am dead positive that
Blixt saw every one of those bills. She
went in the other room and counted, and
I don’t know how long, a few minutes,
a reasonable time, and came back and
said that the money was short. I think
$10; it may have been $20–$10 short. 1
know I told her “I guess you are mistaken,
because I have counted it a number of
times and am positve it is right.” And
she went back to count it again. I don't
suppose she counted the $100 bills, but the
$2,000 package she counted and said it was
all right. That is all there was to it. It
I remember right, to the best of my rec-
ollection, I think that I gave her the pen;
I think I carried the same pen to her. 1
think she signed the two assignments in
the other room; I would not swear to it;
she might have signed them both at the
table. I don’t recollect it. I know I went
in there and I gave her a couple of en-
velopes, some envelopes I had the money
in, in the safe, and she put it in there.
I don’t think she sealed it, though, but
she took them, put them under her arm.
She did not have anything else along at
all, went out the door, and I know she
did not even have a hand bag, but had
those packages under her arm. I went out
of the office with her to the elevator, rang
it up, and she stepped on the elevator,
went down with those two packages under
her arm and went out.
Q. Then what took place after she went
out? A. Well, I took those two assign-
ments and the note, and the safe door
was open and I had some, well, if this
was a letter I probably sealed it up, and
took and put the assignment and the note
in the safe. We generally straightened
things around, because I was going down
with Blixt after a valve; and I probably
straightened things and went out and went
down and got the valve; and I went down
there, and I know when I went down
there that I could not pay for it. We
never have anything charged.
Q. I will call your attention particularly
to what Blixt said going down the elevator
and what he said you told him to say be-
fore you went out of the office? A. I.
never told him anything of the kind. I
know, going out of the elevator, when we
were in the elevator he made some re-
mark; I did not pay any attention; I
know he seemed to be surprised about it
being a large amount of money. I think
when I went out that Witherspoon spoke
a little; something first about the money;
being a good deal of money, or some-
thing; Witherspoon was not excited very
much, because he had often seen me have
big amounts of money, and he did not
think anything of it, but I know Blixt.
seemed to be surprised and dumbfounded.
Q. Mr. Blixt testified that you stated to




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
313.
him— A. I know he did. I know that
he spoke to me afterwards. Being a big
amount of money, and a big loan and all
that; and you might say flattered me for
having so much money. I did not know; I
never was much of a hand to take flattery;
and I turned him off and did not talk
about it. In fact, as far as my telling him
to tell Witherspoon what a large amount
of money it was, it was foolish, as Wither-
spoon had seen me have rolls of $100 bills,
time and time again; large amounts of
money. In fact, I know Witherspoon so
well that sometimes if I had been gambling
and had a pocketful of money I would take
it out and put it under his nose, for years
before that. So it was nothing that he
would be surprised at. A. I will
tell you something else. Why, I know
that, at that time, or before I know
she was talking about getting a box, and I
know when we went into the other room
she said she was going to put into a vault;
I know she told me that afterwards; in
fact, I know there was something after-
wards, because I know I had the impres-
sion she said she was going to put it in
a vault; always thought it was; I even
half way thought that way after Dec. 3,
until the vault was examined.
Q. You had not known this before until
she told you that she was going to put it
in a vault that she had a vault? A. I did
not know, no; but I heard her talk about
putting it in a vault there at that time—I
heard her talk about putting it in a vault
because she did not like the banks; she
had an account in the Security Bank, and
at the time of the run, I heard this at the
time they had the run on the banks here
and the bank was embarrassed or some-
thing, and she took her money from there
and put it in the First National Bank; I
don't know anything about it, that is, only
what she told me. But she told me after-
wards, she sent her niece, Miss Ireland,
down to the Security Bank with a deposit
afterwards, and the cashier told her to
tell Miss Ging that she was afraid of us
and take it back, they didn't care to have
her account any more. Well, that naturally
put Miss Ging out; she was a little huffy
and didn't want anything to do with the
bank any more; in fact, I know, and I
heard her say, speak about it several times,
that she was not going to put her money
in the bank, although I don’t think she
had any trouble or felt embarrassed about
it in the First National Bank, where she
was doing business; but I know she con-
sidered it safer in putting it into the vault,
like hundreds of others were during the
panic.
Q. Do you recollect of her coming back
into the office the second time after she
went out before you went down? A: I am
not sure. I was under the impression she
came in there—she came in there first and
I was writing, or else she came in and said
she would be back in a minute or more,
something to that effect; I have an impres-
sion in some way that she was in the office
twice.
Q: Well, if she was in the office twice,
was the first time she was in there before
or after the loan was made? A. Before.
Q: Well, now, what is your impression
of her being there after the loan was
made? Blixt testified that she was in the
office with you and went out and came
back and went into the back room with
you? A. Well, she would not go back in
the back room with me at all, because
there would be no object in it, no sense;
and if she did come back the second time,
after she made the loan, Blixt must have
been there first; but I remember distinctly
now that she was there first and Blixt
came in afterwards, so I know she did not
come back after the loan.
Q. Now, how came Blixt to be there?
Blixt testifies he was there by agreemnt
with you—you heard his testimony in that
regard? A. Yes, I heard it.
Q. Was it true or not? A. Well, I will
tell you; you might half way guess it was
true. It was this way: the day before–
yes, I know it was the day before—we had
a safety valve on the pump, steam appara-
tus there, and it was out of order and he
was speaking about buying a valve; well, I
told him he had better come down and
get one-he did not really seem to know
where to go to get it; well, I really didn't
know myself hardly where to go, and I
says we had better get one anyway; I said:
"Come down to the office sometime and
we will go and get one,” something to
that effect, although I did not expect that
he was coming that morning at all, al-
though there was some talk before that
he needed a valve and I thought probably
it was not anything he needed right away,
and would not be no life or death affair
if he didn't get one right away, and I
had no idea he was coming down that
morning, and probably I told him to look
it up and for him to come down to the
office sometime and I would get him one,
something of that kind.
Q: Well, was he there by agreement with
you that day? A. No, sir.
Q. Then, if his testimony is to carry the
idea that he was, is not true? A. No, noth-
ing true about it.
Q. Now, as I understand it, after Miss
Ging had gone out of the office you
straightened the office up and went down
with Blixt and bought this valve? A. Yes,
sir, I know I went down there, and I could
not pay for it, I did not have any small
money—I know I had some hundred dollar
bills, and I tried to change one, undoubt.
edly—well, I tell you I think that the real
fact of the matter was, it is kind of em-
barrassing to acknowledge it, but I went
down there and there was a funny kind of
a fellow down there, and I just pulled out
a hundred dollar bill in a kind of bluffing
Way, you might say, and I might have said,
“Here, take your pay out of that,” although
I believe I had a $20 bill in my pocket.
Anyway, Blixt paid for it, but he did not
pay for it out of a ten-dollar bill, as he
testified.
Q. How did he pay for it? A. He had
the exact money, and if that can be re-
membered down there, I suppose they will
so testify-well, I don't suppose he paid for
it-yes, I know he paid for it with the ex-
act money. I remember him counting it out,
because if he had to pay for it out of a bill
probably I would have given him a $20 bill.
Q. Well, now, how long after that were
those main assignments, which you have
put in evidence here, executed? A. Four
days, on the 28th of November.
Q. After you had loaned the money to




*14
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Miss Ging on the 24th of November, did
you notice anything in her conduct, or
hear anything in her conduct either as to
taking rides or otherwise, which excited
your curiosity as to— A. Not in taking
rides, no; I will explain to you.
Q. Well, do so. A. On Saturday when
I loaned the money to her, this twenty-five
hundred dollars was to come back, in fact
I really expected the money to have been
paid possibly Saturday, and then at
the time this loan was made, and if it had
not been some way— Well, if it had not
been for my wanting thenote exactly, and
witnesses on it, I would have deducted the
twenty-five hundred dollars from it, and in-
stead of the seven thousand dollars I
would have deducted the twenty-five hun-
dred dollars from it, and then taken the
note for $7,000 and torn up the other note,
because I wanted that all straight and wit-
messed, for I calculated it was going to
stand, although it was not on any particu-
lar time; that note is on demand, same as
the others, although it was to run along un-
der an agreement between ourselves.
In fact the seven thousand dollar note was
not to draw any interest; it calls for inter-
est, but there was a verbal agreement
between us that it was not to draw any in-
terest until the goods were here and things
kind of straightened around, kind of verbal
agreement between us
Q. She was not to pay any interest on
this money you loaned her to go into busi-
ness with until she had gone into business
and got started? A. That was the idea,
although she wanted that money quite
a while before, the first of November, I
guess.
Q. Now, after this loan was made, or
after the assignment was made, Mr. Wat-
erman testifies here that you were suspi-
cious as to what she had done with this
money, and so forth 2 A. Well, then, she
was going to give me this twenty-five
hundred dollars, probably Monday.
Q. As I understand it, you had already
loaned her twenty-five hundred dollars,
which you deposited with her in accord-
ance with these first notes that were on
demand at any time? A. That was it.
Q. And the agreement with her was that
you were to have twenty-five hundred dol-
lars out of the seven thousand any time
you wanted it? A. Not out of the seven
thousand—above the seven thousand. You
see, when that loan of seven thousand dol-
lars was made she had ninety-five hundred
dollars— -
Q. That is, if she had in her possessio
the twenty-five hundred dollars that you
had given her? A. Well, she had it
somewheres; and at that time I thought
Jones & Sons had it—she always told me
so, gave me to understand that by implying
it in any way.
Q. Now, was she in Barge's restaurant
prior to the time you gave her the loanº
A. Not prior.
Q. Well, after? A. Yes, sir. I will tell
you how my suspicion came about.
Q. Well, I wish you would. A. Well, on
Monday, I think, I had some talk with her
and I wanted the twenty-five hundred dol-
lars, or I don’t know but what it was two
thousand dollars I wanted first; I did not
see her at first, but finally I saw her, and
she didn't pay it; she kind of put me off
until Tuesday. Well, Tuesday or Wednesday
—I was not getting anxious, but still I had
asked her so many times and she kept put-
ting me off in a joking way when I com-
menced talking to her about it—she would
put me off in a joking way, by talking
about something else, she would say, “Oh,
how is the weather?” or something like
that. She would probably change the sub-
ject, but in a joking way, and she would
laugh; I did not think very much of it,
being turned off in that way, but finally
I got to insisting on it that I wanted it,
and on Thanksgiving morning I was talk-
ing about it, still talking about it and in-
sisted upon talking about it, and at the
same time there when I was talking about
the vault, I talked that in front of Miss
Ireland, although Miss Ging told me posi-
tively never to talk about money matters
in front of Miss Ireland, and I did not,
or, in fact, anybody else; she was
Very close about everything – natur-
ally very close about everything.
Well, Thanksgiving morning, you might
Sºy I was after that money, I was begin-
ning to get cranky about it, and I was up
there Thanksgiving afternoon, too, even af.
ter that—I was there in the morning and at
night I was there, I think at night, yes, I
am pretty sure I was there three sessions
on Thanksgiving day, I was there even af-
ter that letter was written, I think, and
Friday morning I got the letter—I never
got up as early as she did usually.
Q. You got a letter from her first? A.
Yes, sir, she sent me a letter first.
Q. I supposed it was the other way” A.
No, sir. I was up there Thanksgiving
morning and I was up there in the after,
noon, and it must have been after that let-
ter was written that she sent me, and I
was up there that night. It is very evi-
dent to me now that the letter was written,
well, you might say, to save a fuss, be-
cause if she had told me what she wrote in
that letter I would have been mad, and she
evidently knew it, and it is very evident to
me she wrote the letter to me instead of
telling me.
Q. I hand the witness exhibit “K” and
ask him whether that is the letter he has
been speaking about? A. Yes, sir, this is
the letter that was handed to me Friday
morning, even after I had been there all
day Thursday, and it is very evident from
the tone of the letter that she had it writ-
ten when I was there, but did not give it to
me or did not talk to me about the con-
tents of the letter, and she thought she
would write it to me and send it, thinking
I would be by myself and would take it
easy, quiet, when I received it.
Q. Read the letter. A. This was handed
to me by the elevator boy.
Mr. Nye-At what time?
The Witness–Friday morning. That was
the first time I saw him, and it must have
been about 9 o'clock.
Q. Well, just read the letter.
A. The letter reads like this, “Dear
Friend Harry–Thinking matters over after
you left this a. m.” You see that is where
it refers to this a. m., you see I was there
and left Thanksgiving morning and I came
back in the afternoon, so you see it is very
evident that she had that letter written
when I was there in the afternoon.
Q. So, you think that letter must have

































OF THE HA. Y. W. A R D MURDER TRIAL.
315
ºn penned on Thanksgiving in the after-
-n.
I think so, yes, sir.
Although it was not given to you un-
the day after?
A. Yes, sir, she told me she went down
town somewhere Thanksgiving afternoon,
although I don't know.
Q. Just read the letter. -
ºr. Nye-The letter has been read twice.
Court–Can't you get along without
sing into all of this detail—there is too
much explanation, what he thinks about.
The Witness—Well, it points to that.
Well, read the letter?
A “Thinking matters over after you left
this a. m. I can’t get that money now un-
less I use a part of the $7,000, and I don't
see why you want so much as $2,000 now;
when you loaned it to me you said you
would not want it very soon, so I have
Ioaned it out”—well, I knew she had loaned
to Jones Bros.- "but I think I can get
you $500 in a few days and that will be all
you want to go to the Hot Springs”—I
had been intending to go to the Hot
Springs and I wanted $2,000. “The first of
January I will have all my money and
then we can straighten everything up.
Hoping this will be satisfactory to you.
Kate Ging. November 29th, 1894.” You see
it was written on Thanksgiving day, the
day I was there, the 29th.
Q. Well, that was Thanksgiving day she
wrote it? A. Yes, sir, Thanksgiving day—
I know the very day. I was in her room
pretty nearly the whole day.
Q. And that is your explanation as to
why the letter was not handed to you,
why she didn't speak to you in person,
because the substance of the letter there
would have caused you to have had a
scene with her? A. Yes, sir, it would.
Well, I went down to the office next morn-
ing and was mad. Now, if you will give
me the letter I wrote it will look like it—
(Witness was here handed letter)—Have
you got the duplicate? I never understood
why these pencil marks are on here, be-
cause it seems to me the duplicate would
have the pencil marks on it to make it
look like the original.
Q. Well, that is the original? A. Yes,
this is the original. -
Q. Well, were there any pencil marks on
it when you sent it? A. I don't remem-
ber. But it don’t make any difference; it
looks so funny; it don’t change the sense
of any thing, but I don’t see why I should
put them there in pencil; I would have put
them there with ink, it seems to me.
Q. That is the letter you wrote her? A.
Yes, sir, this is the letter written Friday
morning when I was down at the office.
Q Read it. A. This letter reads as foll-
lows: “Miss Kate Ging, 65 Syndicate Block
-Dear Friend Kate: I like your nerve,
telling me $500 will do me when I wanted
$2,000. You know very well when I let you
have the $7,000 that it was all the money I
had and you said you would pay the other
in a few days. Now, you have deliberately
turned around and told me you have loaned
º out and can't get it until Jan. 1. Why
didn't you pay me the other day with the
wad of money you were flashing around in
Barge's restaurant? Please look this over
and get me the money before long. I told
º I would let you have the $7,000 as long
as you could pay the interest on it. A 11
the security I have or will have will be a
chattel mortgage on the stock. I will stick
to my part of the bargain, so please stick
to yours, sincerely, Harry T. Hayward.
That was my answer. I wrote the letter
and while I was writing it I told the ele
vator boy in the Oneida Block to ring up
Ol' telephone for a messenger, so before
got the letter completed—no, I got the
letter completed before the messenger came
and I took it out to Jack and asked him
if he would give it to the messenger and
send it and I would pay him for the whole
thing, and he did so.
Q. What time in the morning was that º
A. Well, I don't know. I know it was in
the morning.
Mr. Erwin–Now, I call the court's atten-
tion to the fact that this is the very day
when Adry says he had this talk with
Harry in the office there.
Q. This letter was written on the 30th
day of November? A. That is right. Now.
if you will give me the answer to that-
that naturally comes after this.
Q. In the first place, before you get to
that, I want you to explain what you
mean by flashing that roll, spoken of in
the letter of Nov. 30? A. Well, Nov. 30.
that was Friday.
Q. Well, was it before Thanksgiving that
this occurred? A. Yes, sir. I guess it was
on Wednesday noon, because the assign-
ment—no, I know we came out of the res-
taurant and I was in a hurry—well, 1 for-
got I was going to the matinee that day
and it was 2 o'clock, and I had the acci-
dent policy in my pocket, and I went to
the Boston Block, and I got there late,
about half past 2—that was up in the res-
taurant Wednesday noon; I think she went
up first—I think probably after I left the
New York Life Building, after the assign-
ment was made, I told her I would meet
her at Barge's restaurant, and according
to that I went and met her there; I found
she was there and we ordered dinner, and
so on, and during that dinner this money
transaction took place.
Q. Well, what was it? A. Well, about
as they say, only there was more to it.
but naturally the waiter would not see all
of it.
Q. Well, what was it? A. She had the
money rolled up, about $2,000—I don't know
as I could testify to the amount of it.
probably a little nearer than the rest of
them, but there was a rubber band around
it, and I think there was a $10 bill on
the outside. But I took it and opened it,
and there were $10 bills in it. Well, I didn't
open it, but I could see there was money
there, and I had no reason to doubt but
what there was $2,000 there, as she told me
there was. And this waiter coming in, I
think either she or I possibly attracted his
attention to it; it was possibly myself; we
had been up there so often, and on quite
familiar terms with him, and we didn't
think anything of it, and I think that I
mentioned to her that it was kind of foolish
to carry so much money around, although
I did not think it was a very foolish thing.
because I had done the same thing myself
a hundred times before. But I told her she
ought to stop it, and she didn’t think much
of it; she was tossing it around and setting
it on the table, and I know positively that




















316
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
the waiter did not notice it, but I know
that money sat on the top of a catsup bot-
tle for a long while there, a little bottle
with a stopper in it about as large as my
thumb nail, and I know it sat there all the
time.
Q. This is the occasion you refer to in
your letter, “Why don't you pay it out of
the roll of money you flashed in Barge's
restaurant?” A. Yes, sir, and I talked to
her at that time, and she said “Oh, I will
give it to you in a day or two.” I didn’t
want to say to her, “Give me that money
now,” or anything of that kind, but I
hinted to her pretty strong at that time that
I wanted it, but did not get it.
Q. Now, after you had sent this letter
over by the messenger boy, did he bring
you an answer? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I hand you exhibit “M,” do you know
what time he brought it to you? A. No,
I do not; that must be on record at their
office; they keep time checks.
Q. Well, we haven’t got them here. A.
Well, the elevator boy will probably re-
member the transaction.
Q. Just read that letter. A. “Dear
Friend Harry: You need not be so mad
about it, you can have your money back
just as soon as I can get it. Last Saturday
I thought I could get it in a few days. The
money I had the other day in the res-
taurant did not belong to me. As ever,
Kate Ging.” Well, now, “That did not be-
long to me,” and so on. That expression
in that letter set me thinking how she
could have $2,000 that didn't belong to her,
and I knew that Jones & Sons had it, and
she could get the money—
Q. This letter which the jury is looking
at was brought to you by a messenger in
answer to your letters, the letter you sent
her from your office on the morning of
Nov. 30? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, you say these words, “This
money did not belong to me,” set you to
thinking? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, in what way? A. Well, “Didn't
belong to me,” and could not get it. Well,
because I know she could not have had
Jones & Sons lend the money out an in-
definite length of time, because she knew
I was liable to want it any time—she knew
I would be apt to call for it at any time,
and I knew if she had given it to them,
that they were a reputable firm and that
-ou sahnuſu e he Åeuou Jeu has pinpo Aeum
tice, and that in connection with what she
said in the letter, that it didn’t belong to
her, and I knew it was not their money,
because she would not be carrying it
around; and I did not understand it, I
thought something was wrong. Then the
next time I saw her I talked right down to
her about it.
. Q. When was that you saw her, if you
recollect? A Well, I didn't think I saw
her very much on Friday, but I evidently
saw her Friday night up to the flat—in fact
I am pretty positive I was there and had
quite a talk about this.
Q. What explanation did she make during
the talk? A. Well, she told me then or the
first time after this—I was so anxious
about it and everything that Jones & Sons
didn't have her money, I brought it out in
that way saying they would not have no
trouble raising the money, and so on. And
she acknowledged then that Jones & Sons
didn’t have her money, and I asked her
where it was. She did not tell me and
would not tell me, and she turned it off;
I suppose that was the first time I was
ever really mad at her and I quizzed her
right down and she refused to tell me—
never would tell me where the money was.
Well, from that time on I was suspicious,
and the next day was Saturday, and after
that I thought it over what she had told me
—what they had told me and what she had
told me—she was always very secreted; she
never would tell me where she was. If I
should happen to meet her on the street,
or around the corner, and asked her where
she had been, she would not tell me any-
thing about it, even if she had been to
the dry goods store. Even the simplest
things, she would not tell me anything
about. And I would go and ask Miss Ire-
land where she was. “Where is
Ging?” And she would say, “I don’t know,
I don’t know where she is, whether she is
out driving or at Hale’s.” I got to thinking
about these things; I know Tuesday or
Wednesday night, she was not at the flat,
and Thursday I saw her, and Friday night
after I had this talk; and then Saturday
I went—let's see, where did I see her Sat-
urday—I don’t remember—I think it was
up to her place, Saturday morning, though,
and Saturday afternoon I know she came
to our office, yes, I remember having talk-
ed with her—talked in the inquisition about
that. She came down there with a package,
a large package that measured twenty
inches in length and six inches in diameter,
a very large package; she told me it was
lining and she got it at the dry goods
store; she told me,
could not locate, but it was somewhere
from half-past 2 to half-past 4. I remem-
ber distinctly of walking up to that pack-
age and kind of punching it to see what
was in it, something of that kind, and she
was not there but a few minutes. And I
know that she came in and told me
then something about money—well, the
conversation along there for three days
was steady, “I am just about to get this
money and you will have it right off."
something of about that kind. Well, Satur-
day night I went up to the flat to see her at
—oh, well, it was naturally after supper
time some time, and she was not there,
and I think I was there a couple of times,
and Miss Ireland met me and told me she
was not there, and I asked her where she
was and she would not tell me, and putting
things together, I don’t know whether it.
was imagination or not, but I got it into
my head there was some deceit being car-
ried on, that Miss Ireland knew about. be-
cause she would not tell me where she was
she would keep saying, “She will be herº
pretty soon.” And she told me that night
that she was down at the office working.
Well, I went out.
Q. Did you see her later that night? A.
Yes, sir; I saw her later, afterwards. I
know I sauntered down town that night:
I thought I would go down and see if she
was at the Syndicate, and I went down
there and I did not believe she was ther:
anyway before I went up, but I thought I
would go up, and I went up pretty nearly
to her door and there was no light there
that I could see; I knew she was not there
then. And I turned around and came down
again and sauntered around and canº
home.
Q. Now, on that night where did you
Miss
I know—the time I






OF THE HAYWARD
MURDER TRIAL. 317
-
saunter—just turn your mind a minute
from this subject matter and turn it to
where you went and whether you met any-
body or not. You heard this talk about
oranges the other night? A. Yes, sir. I
remember that. I don’t know just where
I went; I think I walked down to the
syndicate a little while—I was not aiming
for any place. I knew I sauntered down
Nicollet; I think it was over on Nicollet
to that new saloon that had an opening
in November.
Q. The Zephyrº A. That is right, on
the left hand side of Nicollet as you go
down. I went in there probably and I got
a glass of ginger ale; I usually do when I
get anything. Well, I got it and came out,
and I don’t remember of standing in the
door, as those ladies testify; I think I
was going down the street, and I remem-
ber when I picked those oranges up, if I
was standing I was just turning around.
Anyway I picked them up, and I thought
at the time they were lemons; I didn't
think they were oranges; if they were
oranges they were very small ones. Well, I
picked them up and probably I turned
around and went down to Third street and
up Third street over to Hennepin; I went
up Hennepin, didn't probably take a street
car, but I know I always did, and I went
up there and I got there—
Q. Up where, to the Ozark? A. Yes.
And I went up into Miss Ireland's room
again, and I asked her for Miss Ging and
she said she had not got back yet, didn’t
seem to want to tell me anything—I didn’t
tell her I had been down to the Syndicate.
And pretty soon—I was in there about five
minutes and I went out and I went down
the elevator, and as I went down I met
Miss Ging, and she was walking upstairs
at the third floor, she had got to the third
floor, and she says, “What is the matter
with you?” Evidently speaking to Blixt;
Blixt was running the elevator then. And
I says, “Why?” She says, “I have been
ringing for the elevator for about half an
hour.” And then I think was about the
time of the attic business that Blixt told
me he had been up in the attic about that
time then; he can’t deny it. And she was
quite angry having the walk up. We did
not say anything more. She got on at
the third floor. She and I got on the
elevator and went to the top floor and
went into her room; Miss Ireland was
there and we did not talk anything about
money matters. I was under the
impression. Miss Ireland did not think so,
that I talked about the vault; I know I
was mad that night. We were always,
you might say our relation was affection-
ate. We sau on the lounge and I might
have held her hand or might have had my
arm around her, or possibly holding Miss
Ireland's hand at the same time; we were
all three of us sitting right there together.
Mr. Erwin–Well, let those people laugh
all they want to.
Mr. Hayward–Well, it is not much of a
laughing matter.
Q: No, it is not; but they have laughed
and hissed here to their heart’s content.
Go on, Mr. Hayward.
A. Well, I know—not that I thought any
less of her, but I was provoked—I know
when she would put her hand out, anything
like that, I would push her away; I re-
member distinctly about it. She would not
tell me anything about where she had been,
I was quizzing her—I was mad and that is
all there was about it, and I went out. I
was not there very late, I went out about
the time Miss Ireland says I did. Well,
I went out; I was not in a very good hu-
mor. I went to bed—I suppose I did. Well,
Sunday morning—I think I was up there
Sunday morning—Sunday afternoon I was
not there; I took a drive Sunday afternoon
somewheres, but I am pretty positive I was
there Sunday night again, Miss Ireland
don’t remember it, but I was there Sunday
night anyhow; I feel certain that I was, in
fact, I am positive I was there Sunday
night, and I came down out of her rooms at
about half past 10. The elevator shuts
down week day nights at 11 o'clock
and on Sunday night about 10 o'clock.
And as I came out I met Mrs. Bessy Mur-
ray, at about half past 10 on Sunday night,
I think that was about the time I came
out, and I had quite a little talk with her
and I went down to bed, and on Monday
is when the notorious whisky bottle came
into play.
Q. Now, when did you talk with Water-
man about talking with Miss Ging? A.
Well, I think the first talk I had with
Waterman was Sunday night after dinner.
I went into his room and I then pulled out
these letters, I had three of them with
me, and I said, “Waterman, you remember
me talking to you about lending Miss Ging
some money?” He said, “Yes, I do.”
“Well, I have done it,” I said, and I said,
“I guess probably from the looks of things
if I had taken your advice about it it would
have been better for me.” And I pulled out
these letters and I says, “What do you
think about it?” And I don’t know whether
I explained to him anything about any
talk or not; but anyway he said–I think
that I told him and I said, “It looks like
I am going to get left on this.” And Wa-
terman read the letters, I know he must
have read them or else he would not have
made the remark he did. He says: “It does
look that way.” And then I says, “Water-
man, I tell you what I want you to do for
me”—he knew Miss Ging well and he knew
me and as Miss Ireland says, Miss Ging
often kept a bottle of whisky with her
there to drink, and Waterman likes to
drink some once in a while, and I know a
few days after that, but Waterman doesn’t
seem to think so, but I know that he was
up there and took some whisky, all of us
did. And I think the three or four of us
was there, and I think Waterman and Miss
Ging did drink some whisky. Well, then,
Waterman was in a hurry when I told him
this—he could not talk much then because
some one just came to the door for him
while I was in his room, and he says,
“I will go and see her this evening some-
time.” I said, “You go this afternoon,”
and he said he would do so, and he went
away and he was not back to supper that
night, I don’t think; that was Saturday
night, but the next morning, Monday morn-
ing, I went into Waterman's room—he says
it was before breakfast, but I think it
was after breakfast—I went into his room
and woke him up; he could not think or
talk it seemed; he was sleepy—he said,
“Keep still.” I said, “Did you go over and
see Miss Ging?” He said, “No, I have been
over somewheres, but I didn’t see her.” I



313 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
up and see her.”
says, “Well, when will you see her?” He
says, “I will see her today.” And then he
came back at noon to dinner and I says,
"Have you seen her?” He says, “No, I
have not, but I am going to walk down
town after dinner with one of the girls, I
don’t know which one it was, Miss Vedder
or some of them, and he says, “I will go
And he says, “Where will
I see you?” And I thought awhile and I
made the appointment with him to meet
ºne in our office at the Oneida Block; and
I went down and I got there a little before
2 and Waterman was there waiting for ms
and he said he had been up to see her,
but she was not there. Well, we went out
and I don't know where we went; we came
up Nicollet and we started to go over to
Fisher's cigar store, and when we got to
Fourth street I reminded him then—in fact,
I had gotten him down for the purpose of
going to see her, and I said, “Hadn't you
better go down there now and see her,
Waterman 2'' He didn’t want to go, it was
naturally a detective business and he did
not want to spy on her, and he did it, but
ver reluctantly; but he went up there and
went over to Fisher's cigar store and
waited for him a few minutes and he came
ºver kind of laughing and jollying and he
said, “You are all right; she had her things
on and was just going over to see about the
store.” I had told him to inquire particu-
larly about where the money was—I didn't
think it was all right, and I asked him
particularly to inquire where the money
was, and I don’t know whether he told me
or not. The idea of his conversation was
"Everything is all right; your money is all
right, now don’t pay any attention to it.”
Well, that kind of satisfied me a little
while and we went over to the West Hotel
and played a game of billiards; we went
around a little bit as Waterman said—do
you want me to tell just where I went and
everything? -
Q. Well, generally.
A. Well, we went around that afternoon,
visited the Dime Museum, and so on, and
around pretty much as he says; we went up
into Naegle's loan office; he knew this
lady, and he came up Nicollet with her,
and put her on a street car, and we went
around by the West Hotel and played a
game of billiards and then went back to
Fisher's cigar store, and we left there
about half-past 6 o'clock together, as
Waterman says, walked up Hennepin and
got to the Ozark about a quarter of 7.
Q. Previous to going to the Ozark did
you purchase a bottle of whisky? A. Yes,
slº.
Q. And for what purpose? A. Well, it
was down there where they say I got it,
on Nicollet avenue at Lally Brothers; I
had it around in my pocket all day. I
bought it where they say I did and I put
it in my pocket and carried it around all
day. I had it and was going to give it to
Miss Ging; I had of times taken her bot-
tles of whisky and grape juice and so on.
In fact, I gave her that whisky—well, I
told her—I got her that whisky—well, she
said she would not go out with other peo-
ple, other fellows in restaurants.
That is one of the bottles you had
given her before? A. Yes, sir.
Did you have any particular reason
in getting this bottle of whisky? A Well,
I did, yes.
Q: What kind of a bottle was it? A. Just
a little half pint bottle, just as they say,
just exactly like the other. Well, I got it.
and I thought—well, I don't know exactly
how you would put it, but I calculated—
well, then, I calculated to find out about
that money some way, fair means or foul
means; I calculated to give her that whisky
and at that engagement with Waterman at
10 o'clock I calculated she was going to be
in there like we had often done before, in
going down to Barge's, and Waterman is
a pretty jolly sort of a fellow, and I
thought I would get her kind of talkative
and find out what I could about where the
money was, but I could not use it for that
purpose—it didn’t work—I could not find
her at her rooms, I thought I would find
her in her rooms, but I did not; I was up
there about 7 o'clock and after that. And
I came down, and instead of the whisky
bottle being as I expected—if they will
go in my bath room now I have reasons
to believe they will find it there this very
day yet, in the water closet.
Q. Now, what time did you leave Fisher's
cigar store? A. Well, I left there-oh,
they have got it exact, the whole afternoon
trip. As Waterman said, I left there about
half-past 6 and got up there at a quarter
of 7.
Q. What did you do upon arriving at the
Ozark? A. I went into the Thirteenth
street door, and I went down into the base-
ment and I came back and went into my
flat. That afternoon I had on a double
breasted coat. I had been around the
shooting gallery shooting that afternoon
a good deal and I got my hands dirty as
could be, and my nostrils, and I went into
my flat and washed myself, took off my
vest and changed my clothes complete;
and from there I went up on the elevator
to Miss Ging's room—I am pretty sure I
went there—Miss Ireland don’t remember
that, but I am pretty sure I went to the
door and Miss Ireland told me she was not
there yet. But I did not think that was
anything unusual for her not getting home
that early.
Q. Did you meet anybody when you were
on your way up to you flat? A. Oh, that
Blixt business.
No, in going from your room up to
Miss Ireland's, did you meet anybody? A.
The first time when I went in I don't think
I saw a soul.
Q. Well, you went up, you say, to her
room? A. Yes, sir. I went in—I got in
there well, I did not go straight up to her
room; I went down in the basement first
and then I went in and washed myself.
Q: What did you do down in the base-
ment? A. Well, I don't remember whether
I made that trip in the basement or not
but I made that trip half of the time.
Q. You don't remember whether you
made that trip or not? A. No. 1 went
into my room and I washed and I came out
and then is the time I saw Blixt and—
Q. Did you have any conversation with
him? A. Well, he said something about a
sewing machine and about putting it. º
my room to sew, and whether he had his
overcoat on or not I don't know; but .
went in there and came out, came down
the elevator then, and I turned him off. ne
is always a great fellow to talk, and























of THE HAY WARD MºRDER TRIAL.
319
borhood of that time.
didn't pay much attention to him, and I
went down into the basement, I took the
elevator and went down into the basement,
and I saw his wife standing in the door,
and I says to his wife, I asked her where
poss was, or something of that kind
and she said he had gone down town, that
is what she told me distinctly. Then I
asked her what it was about the sewing
machine, and she explained it to me that
she wanted to put the sewing machine
up there, that my father had said it was
ail right for her to put it in if I didn’t
care. I told her I didn't have any ob-
jection, anything my father said was all
right, I certainly would not have any ob-
jection to it. And I told her to put it in
and I went up in a hurry I guess, just as
she says. I went over to the boarding
house, to the best of my recollection it
was 5 minutes or so after 7, when I got
in it must have been about 5 minutes;
know how many I saw, and when I left
I calculate it must have been in the neigh-
Well, I had my
supper, joshing a good deal with Water-
man across the table, and holding up my
hands like that, meaning that I would
meet him at 10 o'clock—I had an engage-
ment to meet him at 10 o'clock and the
whole crowd was around there, and they
am left before I did, barring Mr. and Mrs.
Mathers, they were there when I left and
sat opposite, across the table from where
I was I think they will remember it. And
I came eut and I went from there—of
course I don't know whether I went
through the Thirteenth street entrance or
through the basement; the chances are I
went through the basement; I usually do;
I went from there up the elevator and went
up to my mother's flat and—I remember
now I did go through the basement, I am
sure, because I know I was playing with
my dog, because I know what made me
wash after that was the fact that I was
playing with my dog and he was always
covered over with coal soot. Well, I went
up to my mother's flat and I had a talk
pretty much as she said, and I told her
that she would probably have company, as
I often told her—whistled up the speaking
tube to her that Miss Ging was coming
down; in fact, I always told her when any
of the girls were going to stop in and call
on her. And I talked around her a little
bit for a few minutes, and I went out and
walked up the street to see Miss Ging, and
I met Miss Ireland and I had a little talk
with her, and she said Miss Ging was not
there, and so I came down again to the
flat.
Q. Well, now, you failed to meet Miss
Ging? A. I did; I supposed of course she
would be there then.
Q. Well, what effect did it have on you
when you didn't see her? A. Well, it had
about the same effect that it did the other
night, Saturday night. She did not ex-
plain anything to me, and I was trying to
find out from her all these things about
money matters—I did not know what was
the matter—well, as I told Waterman, I
was going to attach the box; I knew some-
thing was wrong, dead certain about it.
Well, I came in again, and this time I had
this bottle of whisky with me, and I went
into the bathroom and washed my hands;
know it was my second trip there because
that regard, about half past 7,
I would not have left the bottle of whisky
in the bathroom on the first trip; I went
in there and left this whisky bottle in
there.
Q. Can you tell me what time it was
when you went up to Miss Ireland's room.
and she told you Miss Ging was not there?
A well, I think she was about right in
because
when I left the supper table I looked at the
time, and I remember it was just 22 min-
utes after 7.
Q. Well, you came down from your
mother's room and went in there again?
A. Yes, sir. But from that time to a
quarter of 8, at the supper table, is esti-
mated.
Yes, I see. But where did you go
from Miss Ireland's room? A.. I went
down in my flat, and went into the bath-
room and washed my hands.
Q: What did you say to your mother?
A. Why, I explained to her that she would
not have any company. Father said he
was asleep, but I think he must have heard
what mother said; I know he never fails
to speak of my dressing, and telling me I
am dressing too nice; and if he had heard
that he would have woke up.
Q. What was your mother doing, if you
recollect? A. Well, I don’t remember about
that. I know she was reading or some-
thing or other. I know I straightened my-
self around a little and washed myself–
there is a tall mirror there, and I brushed
my hair, or something of that kind. I
didn't stand there very long, and I went
out. I went out, went down stairs to the
third floor where my brother lived, at least
he did at that time—he always lived there
until a few days ago, until he moved on the
ground floor, and I went there and rang
the bell and waited for an answer, and all
at once it struck me that I was ringing at
an empty flat. And I went down on the
ground floor where my brother was and I
rang the bell, and my brother came out and
I asked him for more money.
Q. What was there about this money—
had you made any arrangements to have
money from him that afternoon, as he tes-
tified ? A. Well, I had been dunning him
for money right along; he owed me money
and he had been paying money right along.
Q. Well, without breaking into that now,
I will come to that after a whıle. Did you
get some money? A. Oh, $5 or $10, or
something.
Q. Do you know how much it was 2 A.
I have no reason to doubt what he says,
$5, or something like that.
Q. Well, where did you go, did you go in
his flat? A. No, instead of being in a
hurry, I had time to sell then; I went out,
and then I was in a puzzle what to do. At
first I thought I would go down to the Syn-
dicate Block again, then I started down
Hennepin avenue, and I said, “I guess I
won’t, and I went out the other way, out
Hennepin.
Q. That means from the city? A. From
the city, I thought I would go–
Q. How far did you go out Hennepinº
A. I either went to Laurel avenue or Fif-
teenth street, I don’t know which. I went
out there and I thought I would go and
have a talk with a young lady about some
arrangement—another lady was coming
over and I had partially made arrange-
ment before. -



OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Where did she live, on the right or
left hand side of Hennepinº A. It isn't
necessary to mention names, is it?
Q. No. A. I don’t want to mention any
names unless it is necessary; I don’t want
to get any body mixed up in this matter.
I can whisper it to you and you can look
it up. But it is on the left hand side of
Hennepin.
Q. Did you go there? A. No, I got down
to Laurel avenue or Fifteenth street, I
don't know which, and says I, “I don’t
want to go there.” Well, I did not go over
there, I says this, “I won't go over there”
—then there comes in about this Miss Bar-
tleson, there seems to be so much puzzling
about, I did have an engagement with her,
and I came either across Fifteenth Street
or up to Fourteenth street and across Lau-
rel, I cannot say which, but if I changed
my mind at Fourteenth, I went across to
Laurel, and if I did not, I went up to Fif-
teenth, it was a block further; but I know
I crossed over there and when I got to
Laurel I know I thought I would turn to
the left and go up by another house, but I
didn’t.
Q. Well, you mean Mr. Hale's 2 A. Yes,
I was going around up there, but I did
not; and I know it was about that time
I pulled out my watch, right about there--
I was kind of puzzled what to do. I was
not intending to go over to Miss Bartle-
son's until later; I was just going over to
make a short call. I had met her down
town at noon and she told me to come up.
Well, I thought I would go to the theater;
then is the time I looked at it, and if I re-
member rightly—I am a good deal like my
brother's wife says about my brother re-
membering to the minute, and it was then
at that time 12 or 14 minutes of 8 when I
was over at Laurel; then I turned over and
went on Hawthorn and followed Hawthorn
until I got to Mr. Bartleson's residence,
and I went in and talked to them, as Mr.
Bartleson says. I guess when I struck the
door it was four minutes of 8, because
when I looked at my watch over at Laurel
I says, “I will go over now and ask Miss
Bartleson to go to the theater,” and I went
over there and I went up to the door, and
this is where the skating comes in—she did
not ask me to take her anywhere, but I
knew her so well she causally mentioned
about going down skating, and I think she
said something about a toboggan slide, and
if I remember right, there was a toboggan
slide or something out to Lake Calhoun
that night. But I said, “No, let us go to
the theater.” She says, “It is too late to
go to the theater.” I says, “It is about
3 minutes of 8,” and, as Mr. Bartleson says,
there was quite a comparison of time; he
looked at his watch and the clock, and so
on. Well, I sat around there until Miss
Bartleson got her things on—I don't sup-
pose it took her but a few minutes, and we
went out and went from there to the street
cars and we went down to the theater.
Q: What time did you get to the theater?
A. Well, just about the time they say-
the curtain was just going up, and I am
under the impression that I saw the cur-
tain go up. -
Q. Where did you sit? A: I was under
the impression I sat further to the front
than these people say; they say I was in
the middle of the parquet; I think I was
further front. Anyway, I can tell you the
people who sat next to me.
Q. Well, who were they? A. I sat the
third seat from the aisle, and immediately
on my left was Mr. and Mrs. Fred East-
man, and right behind them was Mr. and
Mrs – Hale, and Mrs. Hale's sister, Mrs.
Woodruff.
Q. How long did you stay at the theater?
A. Until it was out.
Q. Until it was out?
Q. Until it was out. What was the play
that night? A. A “Trip to Chinatown.”
Q. On coming out did you see Mr. Mur-
phy in a box? A. No, not in a box.
Q. Where did you see him? A. Well,
sir, I saw him at the enterance.
Q. Well now, Mr. Murphy testified that
you made a very elaborate and unexpected
bow; state whether or not that is true.
A. Mr. Murphy is mistaken about that. I
spoke to another man, you can depend upon
that—he was coming out of the center
aisle behind Mr. Murphy, although I saw
Mr. Murphy, too.
Q. Did you bow to this other man? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. The bow was not intended for Mr.
Murphy? A. No, sir, not to my knowl-
edge, for I never speak to him only just
to nod as I go along the street.
Q. Well, did you accompany Miss Bar-
tleson home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you get home? A.
Well, I got home—I left her in the hall-I
stood in the hall just about a minute with
her, and I got home to the Ozark about
11 o'clock, just as the elevator was shut-
ing down, so I must have left her home
to get back to the Ozark at that time
about 6 minutes of 11.
Mr. Erwin–May it please your honor,
it will be impossible to get right into an-
other subject matter here at this time,
it is now 10 minutes of 5 and if your honor
will not stop here we will have to com-
mence on another subject matter. I would
like very much to stop here because it
is the end of a subject matter and I can-
not get through with the next subject
matter by time for adjournment, and we
are all very tired.
The Court—I guess you had better go
on—It is a quarter of an hour yet and we
had better keep on to work.
Mr. Erwin–This next examination we
are going into is this categorical exami-
nation of the testimony which is not codi-
fied yet, and it will save the 10 minutes
now intervening if we adjourn now.
The Court—Well, we will adjourn court
until half past 9 o'clock Monday morning.
(Court here took a recess until 9:30 Mon-
day morning, February 25, 1895.)
MoRNING session, FEB. 25.
Harry T. Hayward
Direct examination resumed by Mr. Erwin:
Q. I want you to commence just as if
there had been no interruption, if pos-
sible, if you can get your mind to the
same point.
Q. Now, in you testimony you are anx-
ious to explain everything as you go along?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, that is unnecessary, and if you
do not explain as you go along you will
please as many people, and in the situa-
tion that you are you can hardly please









OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
321
everybody. So, if you confine yourself to
stating the facts without any explanation
unless it is drawn out, it would be just as
well. A. I want to say that I noticed one
place that I was reading in THE TRIB-
UNE, my testimony, and there is one place
they evidently got it wrong in the paper,
where I had held a paper in my hand
dated May 9th, and that afterwards where
I went to Chicago June 12th, May 9th-it
reads June 12th I went to Chicago. I did
not go to Chicago May 9th, if that is so it
is a mistake. That was the paper I was
writing. It reads that way.
Mr. Erwin–There are several lapses in
the testimony.
The Witness—Any way I was not down
to Chicago.
Q. Now, you came back to the Ozark
about 11 o'clock, and what entrance did
you go in the Ozark? A. Hennepin avenue
entrance.
Q. Where did you go from there? A.
I went right straight ahead to the eleva-
tor, got on the elevator, went down to the
basement as I always do. I think I got a
drink of water, the ice pail always stands
there; and went in Blixt's room; the door
was open, and Mrs. Blixt was sitting av
the sewing machine, instead of being in
bed; and the rest of it, I think, is about
as they testified to. Except about the leak
of the watermeter, I don’t understand that.
The chances are there will be no water
running through the building, city water.
I used to keep track of the meter and no-
tice that you can merely hear it tick when
there is any water hunning through it, so
that you would notice it; and it shows
there is a leak to the building. I asked
Blixt if he ever heard this water meter
ticking or running any time during the
night.
Q: What did Mrs. Blixt say to you there
who first spoke to you of any accident,
was it down stairs? A. I cannot say
whether it was Mr. or Mrs. Blixt, or An-
derson. I feel certain that it was some
place there, because I know that I got the
idea that somebody on the fifth floor was
hurt. They said it was a runaway acci-
dent. Well, I came out and went up there.
Q. Anderson says he spoke to you on
the elevator also? A. He did, that is go-
ing up, but he did not the first time, when
he came down; I would not have conne
down; I would have gone up there.
Q. He testified when you were coming
up afterwards he spoke to you, or had
some conversation about what Mrs. Blixt
said? A. Yes, I evidently heard a talk of
something about it, and he told me there
Was a runaway accident. Any way, I know
I got the impression about the horse com-
ing back alone. Then I did not know who
it was even at that time.
Q: Did you go up stairs when you come
ºut to the elevator; you went up to what
floor? A. Second floor. The telephone is
on the second floor.
Q: Who was there at the telephone? A.
Mr. Goosman I am sure, and some police-
ºan might have been. I remember Mr.
Goosman because I had a talk with him.
I inquired who it was. I was getting pret-
ty interested then; because I thought when
they said somebody on the fifth floor, a
lady on the fifth floor, and they knew I
knew Miss Ging, and I had a pretty good
idea that it might be she or Miss Ireland.
Q. What did Goosman say? A. He
seemed to be holding something back. He
said, “We don’t know; we are telephon-
ing and we can’t find out anything.” Well,
I quizzed him and he says, “I will tell
you, Miss Ging took the rig out, and it
came back alone, but we don’t know for
certain whether she is the one that was
hurt.” Then he said they thought it was
a runaway accident, and the patrol had
been out there and brought in somebody;
and they had died on the way in. That is
what he told me.
Q. That is the idea you got from the
talk? A. Yes.
Q. What did you say? A. I don’t know
what I said. I think that is when I got
to thinking pretty fast; and all these
things that had passed between us for
the last week I thought of them then, all
of them.
Q. Between you and
Yes, sir.
Q. All those things came back to your
mind? A. Yes, sir; all these little things,
everything about this money there, and
about that, she two or three times before
that, she had asked me for my revolver,
and putting these things all together it
struck me she had been killed, and not an
accident.
Q. What did you say to that, as far as
you recollect? A. Well, I will tell you.
I was very excited then, and I would soon-
er take their testimony for what I said
than to ask me to say it myself, because I
don’t remember. I know there was talk
there, and went down stairs, and I know
Mr. Goosman was there, and three or four
men, and I know I was telling them some-
thing about the letters, and they were ad-
vising be not to say anything about it;
that I had better keep still about it, and
not let everybody know about these things;
and so I did the best I could. I know I
started to talk two or three times, and
Goosman advised me not to say anything
about it, keep still. That is about the
idea. Then he and I went out, started to
go, I think we were going to the morgue.
Q. Did you ask for Hoy, captain of po-
lice? A: I don’t think I did at that time;
that was later in the evening on the sec-
ond trip back.
Q. You went out and went where? A.
We went down town, and the more he told
me the more firmly I was convinced that
she was murdered instead of an accident.
And we went out. I think we started for
the morgue, but we did not go there. We
went down in the alley, and went in there
and I think the talk was pretty much as
McKenna testifies to. I know he was not
willing to talk when we went in, and
started to explain very reluctantly, seemed
to be holding back, and I thought, I got
the idea at the time that he seemed to
want me to commit myself. I did not
feel any alarm about it, and started in to
explain things and he stated about a
black skirt, and I remember distinctly of
telling him that I did not believe it was a
black skirt; I thought it was a navy blue
skirt; and got out about the waist, it
is not plain in my mind about the kind of
waist she wore; and the black mittens, I
think that is straight, and the sailor hat,
Miss Ging? A.





OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
because I know she always wore those.
Now, if you wish it I will explain here
why I felt certain she had on a navy blue
skirt.
Q. I wish you would. A. Well, she was
far from being a dressy girl, and during
the last 60 days, during October and No-
vember, there is 60 days, in that neigh-
borhood; we will suppose during those 60
days I had seen her, had seen here 90
times—that would average once and a half
each day; during those 90 times I don’t
think I am exaggerating at all in saying
that she had on that skirt, that navy blue
skirt, 87 or 88 of the 90 times. Other girls
change every few days, but not so with
her.
Q. Now, what was the thought in your
mind when you heard that there was a
claim that the woman had been killed;
when all these things came back to your
mind?
Objected to.
A. Well, naturally I was sorry and I
felt this way—it struck me this way; I
would have apparently if she had got back
probably hurt, I would have said to her,
“Well, I told you so.” That is about the
way I felt about it. I was mad, and I
thought it was some—well, I don’t know
what I thought. In some way in her re-
luctance about telling me where the mon-
ey was, and such things as that, it looked
to me that she was in with sobebody else;
I took it she was in gambling with some
one else; and about the time before, take
Saturday and before, and Miss Ireland
never would tell me where she was and
I saw there was some deceit being carried
on. I thought Miss Ireland knew all about
it.
Q. You thought then that your mon-
ey was lost and everything was gone by
the boards? A. No, sir. I did not just
then. I thought right away of that $2,000.
I did not hardly think the $7,000 was gone,
and I did not thoroughly believe that until
I found it out.
Q. Did you inquire immediately to see
whether you could get in the vault? A.
Not then; there was no officers there to
do anything.
At the bank? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. What officer? A. It *Wals either
Courtney or Morrissey, I don't know.
Q. What did you inquire about the
vault? A. I wanted to know—well, let us
see what I would think–
Q. Do you recollect whether you inquired
whether you could not get in that vault?
A. Yes, sir, I was anxious to know whether
it was there or not. I guess I thought it
was there at some time; I was not certain–
of it, I was thinking it over, was not dead
certain whether she had a vault there. I
know she told me she was going to get a
vault, and told me afterwards she had a
vault, but still I never had seen her go to
the vault, or never had direct proof that
she had one; although she told me so.
Q. I don’t care anything about any-
thing further about what took place that
night. But I want to come down now to
the next day. That night, I want it later
—what time was it you saw Mr. Adry
Hayward? A. Well, sometime about 3 or 4
o'clock. -
Q. Under what circumstances? A. Well,
it was after I came back from down town,
Mr, Ferrant, I left him.
Q. You went down town that night once
with Goosman and once with Ferrant? A.
Yes, sir; it was after I came back the sec-
ond time; I did not want to go to bed, I
was pretty nervous and knew I could not
sleep, so I did not care to go to bed. So
I went down and walked up my brother;
and I know we talked about going out
some place, whither we were going out this
summer to kill time. I wanted him to stay
up with me.
Q. Did you talk about this accident, tell
him about it? A. I told him all about it.
My impression is that the first time, wheth-
er he or his wife came to the door I don't
remember—any way I told him about it;
he seemed surprised, terribly surprised.
Q. Did you go down in your room with
him? A. That is all on the same floor.
Did you go into his room with him?
A. I will tell you, I can't say positively
about that, but I know distinctly that
there was no revolver transaction nor no
remark “Ilike picking up money,” or any-
thing of that kind. But possibly I might
have gone in that room, although I have
my doubts about that, because there is no
furniture in my room, only in the bed-
room, and it is small and I would not have
been in there. It don’t look reasonable.
Anyway, I know I never took my revolver
out or any thing of the kind, and there was
no talk about a revolver.
Q. He says that you said when you were
cleaning your revolver, it was “Just like
picking up money?” A. Yes, sir, I heard
him say that. I thought he said it was in
the bath room.
Q. Anything like that? A. Nothing of
the kind; nothing.
Q. When were you first in your room
that night after you got home from the
theater? A. After I got home from the
theater.
Q. Had you been in your room before
about 3 o'clock in the morning, early in
the morning. A. Once, I went in there in
company with Officers Courtney and Mor-
rissey; I think Mr. Ferrant came in, and
Mr. Morissey and Courtney went with me.
I told them, I said, “I have something to
tell you,” or I did not know—I says, “I
would like to see Chief Detective Hoy.” I
always had an idea at that time that he
Was the head of the detectives. I did not
know any of them, and had heard of Hoy
for years , and I thought he was the head.
They told me, anyway, that there was noth-
ing of the kind, that they were just as well
as he. So I supposed they were; and they
saw what I was after with them, and
wanted to get away and walk with me.
Went out Hennepin and told them about the
letters. We walked out in front, went around
the block to Thirteenth street entrance,
and Mr. Ferrant was walking; and I knew
him so well, and he thought I did not want
to tell him anything or any other but the
detectives. So, we kind of came back, and
he came along, and we went back then and
went to my flat there, and I think that Fer-








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
323
rant was with us; I think, too, perhaps not.
We may have lost him, but I believe he was
in there. Then I took these letters out and
read them to Officers Courtney and Mor-
rissey.
Q. Was that the first time that you were
in your room? A. Yes, sir; that was then
my second trip up and down town; that
was about 2 o’clock. I can’t understand
that. I must have been down three times.
I went down town with Mr. Goosman, and
came back with the reporters. No, I did
not go down with the detectives; no, I was
only down town twice.
Q. Where did you rest that night when
you did lie down—in whose room? A. In
my brother's flat.
Q. What time was that that you laid
down on the lounge, I believe he said; was
that right? A. Yes, that was right. Well,
I will put it this way. If I got home and
called at his door first at 3:30, it may have
been 4; if it was 3:30 it was 4:30; it was
probably 5 when I laid down; I think I was
talking to him for an hour telling him
about this.
Q. Now,
He did, yes.
Q. What time did you get up from the
lounge that morning—did you sleep any
there? A. No, sir; was not trying to sleep.
He was sitting right there all the time and
talking; I know that I was kind of figuring
what to do; I know the circumstances of
how it was; well, I felt awful; I knew the
suspicion would point to me just as well as
anything; and I did not know what to do.
I had some anxiety at that time after I
had talked this thing all over, and was
wondering what in the world these newspa-
pers were going to say; that worried me
then a great deal.
Q. What time did you get up in the
morning, and where did you get breakfast,
and where did you go? A. I think I got
up and we went out—I went out or some
of us and got a newspaper and read that.
Well, I went to breakfast. I know I went
in waterman’s room. I remember that dis-
tinctly; took it in to Waterman, and I
said, “What did I tell you, Waterman? I
knew something was wrong.” I went into
Waterman's room; and ate my breakfast
and came out; expect I was in the base-
ment in the morning.
Q. Did you go from the Ozark that morn-
ing? A. Yes, sir; I went down town from
the Ozark. I think I went to the office in
the Oneida Block.
Q. What time did you go to police head-
quarters? A. I will tell you; I went to
the Oneida Block; I should say I was there
at 9 o'clock, and I know I was on my way
to police headquarters, that is, going down
there; I was going to Reed's office, then
on down to the city hall, S. A. Reed's law
office; and at the corner of Third street
and Nicollet I met Mr. Howard, Detective
Howard. He told me they wanted to see
me down there at the city hall. I says,
"All right, just come over here a minute to
the Boston Block, and I will go right
down.” So he went along with me; I
went over there and then went down, and
then commenced the inquisition.
Q. Now, you may state what was gen-
erally done with you at the inquisition.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial, in-
ºmpetent and irrelevant; and not contra-
dictory to anything offered by the state.
did he appear surprised? A.
Mr. Erwin–It is absolutely necessary to
show the growth of this suspicion and the
case against the defendant; just the gen-
eral facts.
The Court—Go on.
Mr. Erwin–I want the general state-
ment; run over the general statement; I
don’t want particularly what was said,
but what generally was done. A. I went
down with the intention of telling them all
I knew pertaining directly or indirectly to
Miss Ging, at the first inquisition, barring
nothing save my gambling transactions
with her; not my gambling transactions,
but my gambling transactions with her. I
was not asked in regard to that, so I just
left it all out. Then, the second inquisi-
tion the next day, I knew probably that I
was making a mistake, perhaps, if I
should not tell it; and I knew I was sus-
picioned; and she was gambling with some-
body else, and I thought if I told Eustis
that, it might be the means of chasing a
clue to the right party; and I know that
I told him something whereas I had a
slight suspicion.
Q: Who questioned you; who talked to
you down there? A. Everybody. I would
go in and talk to somebody, and they
would go out, and then they would come,
and then there would be three or four de-
tectives come in and ask me things, and
I know they thought I was lying, and they
would go off and find it true and come
back, and the detectives would talk on
that; and while I was talking with that
crew, another crew would go out on some
new fresh tracks, and then they would
come back and they would get tired out.
That is the way they went right along.
Q: What officers were there generally?
Mayor Eustis was there? A. Yes, sir; I
think all the officers in the city; Mayor
Eustis; Chief Smith; I did not see Mr.
Doyle until the second inquisition; I don’t
know where he was.
Q. Did you see the county attorney?
A. No, not the county attorney, but the
assistant county atorney; I saw him. He
was right in the heat of it.
Q. How long did this thing last—the
questioning? A. Well, it lasted—well, I
went down there, perhaps, 10 in the morn-
ing until, well, 2 at night—next morning–
that would be 12, 15, 16 hours. Now, I
won't say 10 in the morning; it may have
been half past 10; somewheres there.
Q. Now, during this time did you have
any lawyer with you? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ask for any? A. No, sir.
Q. You answered every question asked
you? A: I answered every question they
asked me, and told them everything. I
told them everything, I guess, I ever have
known pertaining to the case. I did not
try to disguise anything; although my
gambling with her; if I had told them
that I never gambled; if I had told them
that instead of losing $300 to $600 from
gambling transactions, they never would
have know otherwise; and I could have
kept it quiet to this day if I had wanted
to. -
Q. Now, was there any intermission from
this time 10 o’clock until 2 o’clock next
morning? A. No, sir.
Q. Had they a stenographer to write
down what you said? A. Not all the time.
Q: Did he ever read over to you what





324
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
you said? A. I think not; I know he did
not.
Q. At 2 o'clock what was done with you
in the morning? A. Well, Mr. Eustis came
to me and says, the substance of the words
were, “Harry, are you willing to stay here
tonight?” I said “No.” I says, “If you
want me for anything,” I says, “I had just
as soon go up to the West Hotel, and you
can send an officer with me and let him
camp out at my door, or in front of the
bed, but I want to sleep,” and I insist on
it, but he could not do it. He said I could
stay there in the chief's office.
Q. Where did they keep you that night?
A. They kept me on the lounge in the
chief's office, and I got a cold that I had
for about 10 days; could not talk at the
next inquisition; I could hardly tell whether
I caught it on the lounge or at the inguisi-
tion; I don’t know but I caught it some-
times during the hours I was in the city
hall.
Q. How long did you lay on the lounge;
how long before they commenced at you
again? A. Before I went on the lounge I
called the policeman in and says to him to
go out and get something to eat.
Q. Hadn't you anything to eat until that
time? A. No, sir; never ate a bite.
Q. Nothing from that time in the morn-
ing; where did you go to get something to
eat? A. I had not had anything, because
the next morning after the murder at
breakfast I was excited and did not eat
enough to put in tea. I did not have any-
thing at all that day or night, and next
morning at 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock with this
officer I went to some restaurant and got
something to eat, then I laid on the lounge
until after 7 o'clock. Then there were a
few more questions, and Mayor Eustis came
to me and said, “Harry, I believe you have
been made the victim of circumstances,
and you can go, but,” he said, “I wish you
would come down here and stay around
here and help us as much as you can, be-
cause it is more to your interest to have
this thing investigated than anybody else.”
So I agreed with him on that point, and
left him then and went home.
Q. When next were you arrested or ap-
proached by any officer? A. That day I
was down there, in there once or twice in
the city hall, and that night, Wednesday
night, then I went to bed at home and
slept all night. Next morning I don’t
know where I went. I went around town,
I suppose, to the office, and called down to
the city hall again. About 10 or 11 o'clock
I went into the mayor's office, and then his
honor, I told him about my gambling; that
was not urged out of me, or anything of
that kind. I went to him and told him; I
don’t remember the words that I used. I
said, “Mayor, there is one thing more, per-
haps, I ought to tell you.” So I went and
related to him about my gambling trans-
actions with her, and told him about some-
thing that I had heard of another party
about gambling, and thought possibly that
there might be somebody connected with it,
and I think he looked it up. Then I went
with him, I think, directly up to the Ozark,
got my brother, came down to the lawn
and drove. He took the notes. Then he
got in the hack. Detective Doyle and my-
self walked through the alley to the Onei-
da Block, went up there, and he took my
is all I want. A. Yes, he did.
insurance policies, and I explained to him
there all about how the note was made and
signed, money transactions, etc. Then we
came down from there, went from there,
three of us, then in the hack. I don't think
we went to the city hall. We went some-
where; we went to the West Hotel, got
there and went up in a room and he or-
dered dinner. That was brought up, and
we had dinner, but while they were prepar-
ing dinner that morning—I had to go back
of that morning before I went to the
mayor’s office. I was up in my office, and
there was a note on my desk from Lawyer
Bartleson, wanting me to call over to his
office, and I had that note in my pocket. I
evidently went to the city hall then, and
so I did not get a chance to see Mr. Bar-
tleson. Then I did not know what it was,
what he wanted; and while up at the West
Hotel I pulled out this note, and was won-
dering what he wanted quite a while since
he left. He said: “Come over immediate-
ly.” So I sent a messenger to him, and he
came down, had a talk there, and he said:
“I thought you had better sense than to let
these people pull you around this way.”
And I says, “Mr. Bartleson, I realize that.”
Objected to as immaterial.
Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin—I want to prove that Lawyer
Bartleson at that time was not allowed in
the room, that he pushed himself in.
Q. Was that the time that he was not
allowed in the room, at the time he pushed
himself in 2 A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–I want to prove that Lawyer
Bartleson had to press himself in the room
to get there.
Mr. Nye-Mr. Eustis testified to it. -
Mr. Erwin–If he testified to it. I have a
right to have it testified to.
The Court—The witness testified as to
conversations between them.
Mr. Erwin–I don’t care about the con-
versation, but simply the circumstance of
getting into the room.
Objected to as immaterial.
Overruled.
The Witness—Bartleson came to the door.
Mr. Eustis, who was pushing the door–
Mr. Eustis came and held the door and
says “You can’t come in here.” Bartle-
son said “I can’t come in here,” and he
gave the door a shove, and he sent the
mayor a flying, he came in, and he gave
the mayor a pretty good talking to. He
denounced such high handed proceedings.
Objected to
Q. He denounced the proceedings—that
Q. Then, you were advised by Mr. Bar-
tleson, were you? A. To have an attor-
ney. I told him I did not think I needed
any attorney.
Q. Did you send for Mr. Hale then? A.
Yes, on advice from Mr. Bartleson. He
said, “Now take my advice—”
The Court–L rule that out.
The Witness—They got Hale up there.
Q. What time did Hale come there? A.
An hour after that, half an hour after
that, a half an hour or three-quarters. It
was probably then 3 o'clock or 4 o’clock.
Q. What took place when Hale got
there?
Objected to as immaterial. Sustained.
Q. Did you leave the room with Mr.
Hale. A. Yes, sir. Very shortly after Mr.
























OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. - 325
Hale got there. Went to Mr. Hale's office
and an hour afterwards I was arrested.
Q. Now, during this inquisition were you
taken to the morgue? A. Yes.
Q: Who by? A. The same
Hankinson. -
Objected to as immaterial.
The Witness (continuing).
others; I don’t know.
The Court—I think that has been gone
into. Objection overruled. -
Mr. Erwin–You were furnished with the
signt of the dead body of Catherine Ging?
A. Yes, sir; not in the ordinary way,
either.
Q. Just describe how it was done? A.
They kept me in the front room first
a while, and then went in; and I came in
and they took me to the corpse, and then
the cover was on then and they were all
around there. I don’t know what they
expected, but she was shown to me in a
sensational manner, in a surprising way.
I felt pretty bad, and I think Mr. Eustis,
I think, asked me, says he, “Harry, is
this your friend?” I think I am
swered, “Yes.” Well, I felt pretty bad
then. I was right there, and all these
people thought I was guilty. And I don’t
know the words I used; I don’t remember.
Q. Do you recollect Mr. Eustis telling
you to take off your hat, so they could
see your face?
Objected to.
. Yes, sir.
The Court—At that time, was it?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir.
The Witness—Yes, sir.
detective,
And a few
Objection overruled.
He asked me to
take off my hat, and then I can say this—
Mr. Nye—Suppose you answer the ques-
tions.
A. I have answered the questions.
Mr. Erwin–Where were you taken from
there? A. That was during the inquisi-
tion. I was taken to the city hall then.
Q. Now, did you attend the funeral of
Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What day was that, if you remem-
ber? A. Wednesday, I think, the 5th, in
the afternoon.
Q. Did you go to the undertaker and
perform such offices as you could? A.
Well, there will have to be a little explan-
ation; I can't very well answer that.
Go on and make it. A. I went to
the Syndicate Block and asked Miss Ire-
land if there was anything I could do. She
told me they were going down there to
prepare the body and have the funeral
some way, and for me to come there after
awhile. I asked her—I did not know any-
thing about the arrangement. I said,
“What can I do, what kind of flowers shall
I give?”
Mr. Nye–State what you did and what
the conversation was. A. Well, I went to
Mendenhall’s place on Fourth street and I
bought some flowers, some roses, and I
took them down there, and I could not get
In the back room then; it was not time. So
I stood around at the front there and
finally got in the back room there with
two others, and they were arranging the
things, and so these flowers were put on
the top of the casket with others. Well,
that was all. I stayed there a while and
then passed out. That was just immedi-
ately before the funeral.
The Court–Is this material.
Mr. Erwin–It is material to show his
attitude after the death of this woman,
as corroborative of his regard for her dur-
ing her life. I simply wish to indicate to
the jury what his feeling was.
Q. Did you go to the funeral—did you
go alone—who was with you, what car-
riage did you go in 2 A. I went to the
funeral with a lady that is in an office im-
mediately adjoining Miss Ging's dressmak-
ing parlors, in a hack; stayed there until
the funeral was out, and came back.
Q. How soon after coming from the
funeral did you go in the inquisition again?
A. That was not the day; that was Wed-
nesday, I fell certain; there was no in-
quisition that day, so that night I was
asleep.
Q. Then, after your arrest, that was in
Mr. Hale's office, as I understand it? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. After your arrest, where were you
taken? A. Direct to lockup alley.
Q. Where was the lockup; how long did
you remain in the lockup 2 A. Let me see
—that was Thursday night—until the next
morning, 10 o’clock, I guess.
Q. Where were you taken next morning?
A. Taken to the municipal court for some-
thing— a hearing.
Q. Had you your lawyer there? A. Yes,
S11".
Q. From there where were you taken. A.
To the county jail.
Q. Where were you placed in the county
jail? A. Well, in the third tier of cells.
Q: Who was in that tier with you? A.
My brother, Adry. He went in the same
time with me.
Q. Now, you heard your brother's testi-
mony as to what took place there in the
jail? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that true? A. No, sir.
Q: What talk was there in the jail? A.
Well, my brother—shall I explain this?
Q. Yes, sir. A. During that affair in
the municipal court my brother seemed to
be terribly down, hung his head; he seemed
to be affected in some way, and down at
the county jail he would not talk; he was
nervous. I says, “What is the matter with
you, Adry?” I said, “We are not guilty,”
and he said, “Well, I know–º somethin
to that effect, and he said, “I wish I coul
feel as good about this as you do”—well,
you might say I kind of braced him up; I
said, “What is the matter with you? There
is nothing to fear.” He said something
about “I don’t know,” and it struck me
then kind of funny, and I told him, I said,
“Adry, what is this?” And he would not
say. I said to him this: “Adry, you held
that woman up once,” I said, “If you did
this,” I said to him that way, and he was
nervous and he would not talk. I don’t
think after that conversation took place
that I talked to him at all. I was think-
ing most of the time.
Q. Was there any talk about the man
who did this as being in New York, or any
such talk? A. Before that time, I had
expressed the opinion around—if the man
was not caught right off—and I said to him,
I think, because I had said it to others,
that it was my opinion that by that time
he was a long ways off; and I may have
told him that in jail before this; I may
have said that in jail; I always thought; I
thought that that was the case. I thought
that he had gotten out of the country on
the supposition that a ran who would do






326
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
anything of that kind would not stay
around here very long.
Q. It is necessary now for me to call
your attention to the different statements
made by the different witnesses, so you can
have an opportunity to deny, admit or ex-
plain them. Now, in relation to Mr. Blixt's
testimony—commencing with his testimony.
You testified on Thursday about the cir-
cumstances of his going down on Wednes-
day, on the 24th, at the time the notes were
executed 2 A. That was Saturday.
Q. Now, Mr. Blixt says, commencing on
that evening, you and he had a conversa-
tion in the basement of the Ozark and that
you told him, “I didn’t borrow to her no
$7,000; it was only $2,000;” did you say any-
thing like that to him? A. I did not.
He also testified that you said, “I am
going to kill her,” and “I am going to take
her down,” or “I have took her down al-
ready to gambling as high as $1,000, and
then she buys green goods, and now,” he
says, “after this I am going to take her to
the restaurant and have her show this
$2,000, and then I will remark that she is
awfully careless to show around so much
money, and she will be killed for it.” Did
you have any such conversation with him 2
A.. I did not.
Q. He says that you were going to kill
her and that you thought you would make
about $10,000 on her? A. I did not say any-
think of the kind.
Q. He then testified that during the walk
he kept on telling how he had been taking
her around to the restaurant and showing
the $2,000 around, and she had set the $2,000
in the tumbler, and the waiters remarked
it was awfully careless, because she had so
much money and might be killed for it, and
he took her around the same way, and took
her to St. Paul and had her do the same
thing over there. Did you ever tell him
anything of that kind or character? A. I
never did. I never took her to St. Paul,
whatever, at all. I was not over there with
her to St. Paul, in fact I was never with
Miss Ging in St. Paul alone, never in my
life that I know of.
Q. He says that afterwards you told
him, Blixt, that she wanted to marry you;
that you had promised to marry her and
that you said, “Now I am going to kill
her.” Did you ever say any such thing?
A. I never said anything of the kind in
my life to him.
Q. He also stated that you told him that
you were going to get her to assign the
life insurance policies over to you as se-
curity for the money that you had loaned
her? A. I will tell you now—I don’t re-
member any time, but I think he was so
surprised about the money, I thought I
would give him some kind of an explana-
tion for it, what it was for, and I might
have told him there was a loan, something
of that kind. I don’t remember, but talk-
ing everything it is my impression I might
have explained it to him in that way.
He further testified that you told him,
“I have got all the money from her and
now I am going to have her assign her life
insurance policy over to me and kill her.”
Anything of that kind ever transpire be-
tween you and he? A: I never said any-
thing of the kind to him.
Q. He further testified that you said,
“The next conversation he said he was
going to have her take out a horse and
go out riding—” A. I never said anything
of the kind to him.
Q. He further testified, “Some days af-
terwards, perhaps the next evening after,
he said, I am going to have her go down
to the stable—” A. Say, can I make an
explanation in regard to that previous
question 2
Q. Yes. A. Well, now, along in the
sumner sometime I used to drive a horse
that Mr. Goosman had that was a notor-
ious runaway, a regular kicker, he used to
have a way of kicking and Blixt used to
see me drive the horse and he said he
wondered why I drove the horse and I told
him that the horse was a kicker and how
he had smashed the buggy two or three
tinnes and I think that must have come
from that remark, in that way. But those
horses they speak about, Lucy and Kit,
they were not runaway horses, neither one
of them.
(Witness here, in reply to further ques-
tions as to the truth of Blixt's statement,
made a denial covering the statement that
witness had told Blixt that he was going
to take the horse out and take a ride out,
and find a place where there were some
rocks near a road, and then have Miss
Ging take out a horse and kill her by
throwing her against the rocks; also deny-
ing that he told Blixt to go to St. Paul
and buy an overcoat and a slouch hat;
also that he should buy a revolver. In
regard to the cutting of the iron, as re-
lated by Blixt, witness said: “Why, it is
the worst lie he ever manufactured, and it
is a sick one, too.”)
Q. What is there about that piece of
iron? A. Well, sir, I will tell you. One
time I was upstairs, and I heard a pound-
ing down there. He had been careless in
running around town a good deal, and I
had been roasting him for it; and I heard
a pounding down in the basement, as
though the house was coming down. I
went down there and I said, “What in
the world are you doing, Blixt?” And he
told me he was cutting a piece of iron
in two, and there was the iron laying in
front of the furnace there, and I knew all
about what it had been gotten for, and I
says, “What in thunder are you cutting
that iron in two for 2'' And I don’t know
exactly what explanation he made, but
anyway I asked him, or rather, he asked
me, what I wanted it for, and I told him
—and this is where the wall business comes
in—and I told him it was got for the fur-
nace, to keep in here, and they have got
the painted wall business for the furnace
waſi. That is all there is to it. And then
he spoke about it. He says, “I will get
another one;” and I know I told him. I
guessed it would not make any difference
any way; I guessed that was all right.
Q. Did you ever take any iron, a piece
two feet long that was cut off another
piece, out of that basement with you? A.
No; I took the iron and threw it over in
the corner, by the hot water heater there:
that was the last I ever heard or saw any-
thing of it.
(Witness here denied having told Blixt.
about the plan to hit Miss Ging in the
head with an iron, saying, “I never had
any such talk with him in the world.
Nothing like it.”)
Q. He says that he wanted you to run
































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 327
the elevator until 9 o'clock that night? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. He says you always made a memor-
andum of what you had on your person.
and when you came in that night you
wanted Blixt to ask you if you had two
revolvers, one jackknife, one watch, one
pair of gloves, and two handkerchiefs, be-
cause you might get nervous and lose
something.” Did you say anything of the
kind to him? A. I never carried two re-
volvers in my life that I know of.
Q. Was there anything of that kind
said? A. No, sir, nothing of the kind in
the world.
(Witness here denied the conversation
testified to by Blixt that Hayward had told
him he could not kill her—could not make
it an accident; and to taking out four
handkerchiefs and threw them into the
fire. He also denied having asked Blixt.
to let her get killed in the elevator; and
having told him they have a style in the
East to stick a dagger into a person that
kills them every time; denied having said
he would rather kill her than to shoot a
dog.)
A. And “He said I was a coward and my
conscience was bothering me.” Sunday
evening you took her down to the boilers
and showed her the boilers and how the
pump worked, and showed her all around.
A. I don't remember of showing her at
that time, but I know I have shown her
around the basement.
Q. And he testified that you showed her
all wrong, that you didn’t tell her truth-
fully—that you fooled her and told her all
wrong—anything of the kind? A. Well,
sir, I know I showed her around there, but
whether it was that time or not—I showed
her around the basement, but I never
showed her wrong. I don’t see that there
was any object in doing that.
(Witness then denied the tin box story
as related by Blixt, and the hiding of the
box of cartridges and the roll of bills in
the attic).
Q. Where is that watch? A. Well, I
had a watch of that description with a
deer on it.
Q. Where is that watch now? A.. I
think I put it in Eustis' jewelry store.
When? A: Well, along sometime be-
fore this thing happened.
Do you recollect that you put it in
there on December 3d? A. I think the par
pers give it on the 3d, I know it was
somewhere along there, but I ain’t positive
when it was.
Q. That was the same day, the Saturday
before he says you went to hide it. A.
Well, I know how that came around all
right.
Q. How did you put your watch in Eus-
tis' jewelry store? A: Why, I just took it
over there and told them I wanted it
cleaned up all right, it never had been
cleaned for years.
Q. Mr. Erwin–Now, if your honor please,
I offer to prove that this watch was the
one taken from him—a watch taken from
him as stated in my first offer, your honor
understands it.
The Court—Taken from Harry?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir.
The Court–When 2
Mr. Erwin–Well, at the time I made
the first offer, at the time the defendant
went on the stand, you remember, I made
a private offer to the court:
The Court—Yes.
Mr. Erwin–You will remember I offered
to show that this was the same watch
taken from him on that occasion?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–This is offered for showing a
motive in another party for committing this
murder, not mentioning the party, but the
court understands.
The Court—There is no proper foundation
laid for that evidence yet.
Mr. Erwin–Just note an exception.
(Witness denied having told Blixt that
this plan would bring him, Hayward, $10,-
000 and that he had to make $5,000 some-
where else. He also denied having taken
whisky to Blixt, and the conversation
which Blixt testified occurred at that time;
also denied having told Blixt, “You have
got to help me or I will have to kill you
anyway; if you don’t help me I, will kill
you, and if you help me you are all right.”
and “I want to kill your wife, because I am
afraid she might hurt both you and me.)
(Asked about the proposition to have
Blixt sign a receipt for the revolver, and
about putting a string around it, witness
replied: “It is wholly foolish, preposterous
and untrue.”)
Q. And he says, “And he gave me six
cartridges,” he says. “They are extra long
and don’t belong to the revolver, but they
are extra long and good, and after you
have killed her you can take these extra.
ones and put in these other ones that be-
long to the revolver, and put the revolver
under my pillow when you come back.”
Did you ever do any such thing or say
any such thing? A. I never had any such
talk with him. Mr. Blixt did not have my
revolver for three months before; he had
it at the time the circus was in town here;
he said people were breaking in houses
around here, and I believe they did, in two
or three places, and he had it at that time;
he borrowed it of me and he had it for
two or three months before that.
Q. Then he says, “When you get ready
come up to my flat and I will instruct you
where to go and all about it.” Anything
of that kind said? A. Nothing of the kind,
no, Sir.
Q. And he says, “He left me for a little
while, I don’t know how long he was out;
but he came back and he says, “Put on
your coat and come—" A. There was noth-
ing of that kind, no sir.
Q. “I went and put my coat and vest on
and just as I was ready to go my wife
spoke about the sewing machine. I spoke
to him about it and he didn’t answer me?”
A. His wife spoke to me while Blixt was
there.
Q. No, he says Blixt told you his wife
had spoke to you about the sewing ma-
chine? A. That is the time I had the talk
with Blixt up in the hall.
Q. That is when he was going out? A.
Well, I don’t know. He was standing there
in the hall.
Q. You left him? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that was when you were on your







328 OFFICIAL
STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
way to Miss Ireland's room? A. Yes, sir,
when I first met him, 7 o'clock at night
after I had dressed.
(Witness denied Blixt's story about the
meeting with Miss Ging at Kenwood boule-
vard, the signals, the instructions to Blixt
as to where to drive, etc.)
Q. He testified that you were to take
out the two horses and Blixt was to ex-
change with you, he was to take the two
horses away from you and were to get into
the buggy and bring Miss Ging back to
town 2 A. Well, I never could see any
sense in that anyway.
Q. Well, did you have any such talk
him? A. Never in the world. -
with
And he further testified, “He said to
us both that we should keep our heads in
pretty close, so as not to be watched.” And
he says you said to her, “This man is one
of the gang he is in to, too.” Did you say
anything of the kind to him? A. I never
said such a thing. There never was such
a talk at all; I never was down there with
him in that hollow at all. That is purely
and wholly all manufactured.
Q. He said, “Before we started,” he said,
“After you have killed her,” that is, after
you started from the Ozark, “After you
have killed her I want you to take the
cloak off and carry it with you as far as
possible, and when you leave the horses,
then drop it.” Did you ever say any such
thing as that? A. Nothing of the kind.
Q. Did you ever have any talk with him
about a doctor telling you where to shoot
a person to kill the quickest? A. Never
in my life.
Q. You never had any such talk with
him? A. Well, now I will tell you about
that a little bit. There might be some
foundation for that talk, because it was
customary for the policemen about, I think,
in the neighborhood of 11 o'clock at night-
he comes around there and takes off his
overcoat–well, he is around the basement
there and he stays in there for a few min-
utes and was every night about 11 o’clock.
And he takes out of his pocket usually
his billy, his little wooden billy with lead
on the end of it, and he leaves it on the
bench there. Well, I know there was often
times when people was in there, and I re-
member distinctly it was a quite a usual
thing to take up that billy and pound with
it, and the policeman would come back and
we had quite a talk about it, wondering
whether that would kill a man or not, it
was such a heavy one, heavier than any of
these billies I have seen hanging up around
in the stores and so forth, and he would
say, “’Yes, you can hit a man with it so
it would kill him,” and I know there was
quite a little talk about that, and so on,
what would kill people and so on, but
there was no privacy about it, the police-
man was there, and others. But whether
I ever told him about the doctor, it might
be I know I have several times, often,
talked with doctors about such things;
and that Anoka doctor, it was not the way
it was put into the papers, but there is
some foundation for that. I went up there
camping and there was a young doctor
there, he had just graduated from college,
and he used to talk with me a great deal
and tell me about how they used to lay
people out on a marble slab, and mark just
where the heart was and all about the
brains and the different organs, he used to
talk with me about those things and ex-
plain them to me thoroughly—in fact, I was
interested in things of that kind, in fact, I
have been advised to study medicine, and
I had been thinking of it, and I took a
great interest in all those things. But I
don’t think—I don’t remember of ever tell-
ing Blixt where to shoot. If I had wanted
to tell him I don’t think I would have to
ask any doctor about it, I think I would
know that myself.
Q. Well, you never told him anything of
the kind? A. No, sir; never did.
Q. He says that night, that night after
the murder, about 10 o'clock, you came in
and turned around and looked at him and
nodded your head? A. Nothing of that
kind; no, sir. -
Q. He also says that before the murde
you had showed him letters and had told
him you had got her to write letters to
you? A. Never, I can explain about those
letters, if you want to?
Well, did you ever tell him any such
thing? A. No, sir; but I know how those
letters—he knew about the letters after, but
not before the murder. -
Q. He knew about the letters after-
wards? A. Yes, sir. After the inquisition
—after those letters had been taken from
me, I did not want them taken away from
me; I took a duplicate of the one I wrote
to her. And when I took the one I wrote
to her I wondered if there was going to
be a lawsuit or something out of this,
and I kept the duplicate. I didn’t want
them to take these letters away from me.
when they did. I turned it over on the
back and I wrote from recollection just
what I wrote to her, and her answer. And
I was explaining to Blixt, and guess every-
body else I met afterwards, about it.
(Witness denied Blixt's story that Hay-
ward had told him there were 20 in Hay-
ward’s gang, in the green goods, and if
he should ever say anything one of the
gang would shoot him before he had time
to walk two blocks, even if they had to
do it on Washington avenue.)
Q. He further testified: “After he came
out of the sweat box Tuesday or Wednes-
day, I said to him, “If you get arrested
again, will you hold out? Won't you tes-
tify then?' And he said, ‘Not in 40 years.”
He then said after that, ‘I wonder if your
wife can be bought to tell anything.” I
said, “My wife don’t know anything, and
she never will know anything; you need not
be afraid, and she ain’t the woman that
can be bought for this house.’ ” Ever say
anything of the kind to him? A. I will tell
you about that. There is a little founda-
tion for that. After this thing happened,
and I had been down to this inquisition, I
was pretty thoroughly convinced that this
was a plot laid, and they meant to impli-
cate me, and when she borrowed that re-
volver from me, or wanted to borrow it,
she did it because she was coached
through some third party; and I firmly be-
lieve if she had succeeded in borrowing
that revolver it would have been found on
the ground where the murder was commit-
ted. And I says, “Blixt, don’t let anybody
go into my flat without they have papers
to show they have a right to go in there:
if they do, the first thing I know I will find
a lot of bloody clothes in my closet; some-
thing of the kind. And about the key I
says, “Your wife has got the key to my




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
329
rooms; now, do you suppose she could be
bought to let anybody in there to do any
monkey business?” He said, “No; have her
take it out,” and I think I did, or she did.
I think the machine was taken out of my
room at that time. I left instructions to
let no stranger go in there at all.
Q. Well, outside of that possible founda-
tion, did you ever say anything that he
testified to there at all? A. No, nothing
of the kind. When this thing was laid,
they never calculated on these letters I
had; I see that.
Q. He says that in that conversation
where he has not given time or place, he
says that you said if you could not kill her
any other way you would play off. He said
that you said you had the rheumatism
once and that you said, “I will have the
rheumatism so bad that the doctor will say
that I cannot stir. I will get up and stab
her right in the back, when he can swear
that I cannot possibly be up, because I had
the rheumatism.” Was there any such
thing as that said? A. Nothing of the
kind, and I think he also stated that I had
the rheumatism once out East?
Q. Yes, sir, he did. A. Well, I never
had the rheumatism as he testifies I did.
I had it, but not that way.
(Witness denied the story of Blixt rela-
tive to the old skates and to Harry tell-
ing him, “You take this $100 and buy your
new skates, and buy your clothes, too; take
this money. Go out and kill a man, and
here is a hundred dollar bill.”)
Q. Did you ever tell Adry any such
stuff? A. No, sir, never. “Go out and kill
a stranger for $100,” what is the sense to
that? I would like to know how I would
ever be benefited by anything like that?
Mr. Nye-Well, your counsel can argue
that to the jury better than you can.
Mr. Erwin–You have a perfect right to
ask that question.
A. It looks to me silly and foolish.
Q. You heard his testimony in relation
to the barn near the Ozark which was
burned, and about your giving him $10 to
set fire to the barn, and the conversation
that you had it witnessed, and had a writ-
ten affidavit and had it sworn to before a
notary public, and if he ever said anything
against you you would have him in the
state’s prison for 10 years. Anything like
that said to him? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you ever engaged with him in
burning a barn? A: I never was.
Q. Is any truth at all in his statements
about burning the barn? A. No, not a bit
whatever. I can tell you pretty nearly
where the fire business comes from.
Mr. Erwin–Well, that ain’t necessary at
this time.
The Witness—There are children of mis-
fortune around this court room in regard
to fires. -
Q. Now, there was some instructions tes-
tified to here by Mr. Tucker, in regard to
keeping the elevator on the first floor. You
may state what those instructions were and
what was the occasion of giving them? A.
Well, I told him when Mr. Blixt was in the
basement attending to things there for him
to stay out of the basement and stay in the
elevator. Now that may be taken just ex-
actly two ways.
Q. For what purpose did you tell him
that? A. I told him that to better satisfy
the tenants of the building. When Blixt.
was in the basement it was not necessary
for him to be down there, but when Blixt.
was away on business it was necessary for
him to stay down there to attend to the
steam plant. He had been in the habit of
going into the basement and playing check-
ers and such things as that, and they all
had to Wait for the elevator.
Q. Mr. Tucker also testified that during
the summer some time he sent a letter for
you with a draft in it from Miss Ging for
$80? A. I think that is right.
Q. Did you receive such a draft from Miss
Ging? A. Yes, sir. I don’t remember the
occasion—some money transaction—she had
given me her check and perhaps I didn't
have time to cash it; I don’t know what it
was. There was a good many money deals
between us and I don’t remember just what
it was. But I tell you he had the time
wrong; he testified that it was about the
1st of August. If you look it up you will
find it was back in June or July– if you
will look the check up you will find my in-
dorsement on it. -
Q. Now, I will call your attention to
Adry Hayward’s testimony, but before I
do that, I will ask you whether the con-
versation in general with Mr. Blixt, as re-
lated by him, about killing anybody, or
about Miss Ging—whether those conversa-
tions are true or false? A. They are all
false.
Q. Did you ever have any intention of
killing Miss Ging? A. Never in the world.
It is the furtherest thing from my mind
in the world.
Q. Did you ever have any confederates,
or any talk with anybody about killing
Miss Ging? A. Never. -
Q. Now, Mr. Adry Hawyard testified
that “Harry and I have been on first-
class terms, as a general thing.” A. That
is not true.
Q. Now, you may go on and give what
terms you have been on with your brother
during the past five or six years and what
serious times you had with him, all of
them 2 A. I don’t believe I ever was to
the theater with my brother in my life—
well, I won’t say my life, but I will say
in the last five years. Well, I will tell
you. I guess in five years I have not been
or gone any place for pastime or amuse-
ment with my brother five times in five
years; I don’t think that is exaggerating
it at all. Of course, if they were picked
out and my attention called to it, it might
be different. But I don’t believe I have
been with him five times in five years.
Q. Now, what trouble have you had with
him in connection with yourself or your
father, what trouble? A. Well, my broth-
er Adry is a victim of that green eyed
monster, jealousy, has been for five years
—and well, anything that comes up, don’t
make any difference what it is, it is so
strong that should I go in sometime and
borrow $50 of my father over night, or
something like that, my father would be
afraid to give it to me in front of my
brother, for fear of a scene; for if I should
go out after that my brother would light
on my father and want to kill him in-
stantly—not once, but hundreds of times.
I have seen that brother of mine stand up
in front of my father and curse and black-
guard him, swear he would kill him dozens
of times.



330
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Mr. Nye–That is objected to as incom-
petent, irrelevant and immaterial.
Q. Well, you rebuked your brother? A.
I have, time and again.
The Court—So far as any difficulty be-
tween his mother and his father and his
brother, I do not see that this is compe-
tent. -
Mr. Erwin–Only so far as it is connect-
ed with him.
The Witness—Well, I am giving you the
trouble in which I was connected with it.
The Court—Well, he does not claim he
was there and heard it.
Q. What would you say to him? A. I
would always pitch into him and he al-
WayS-
The Court–Now, don’t talk of the diffi-
culty between your father and mother un-
less you were present. And the difficulties
you have had with him you can state brief-
ly, even in their presence. A. You want
the main difficulty between he and I?
Q. Yes? A. Well, the first main diffi-
culty lately was about last spring—shall
I get on and tell you all about it?
Q. Yes. A. That was ruled out once.
Well, I came into the office and came in
there in the morning after we had been
robbed out on the highway—
Mr. Nye–Now, unless we can try that
question—I would like to try it—but un-
less we can try it and show what this
was then, I object to anything that took
place afterwards.
Mr. Erwin–We will open the door for
everything and not hide it.
The Witness—You bet we will have the
witnesses to prove it.
Mr. Erwin–Well, ºnever mind, we will
open the door and have it fully tried.
The Witness—I will show you it was im-
possible for me to know anything about
it.
Mr. Nye–You just let your counsel and
I do the talking. I object at this time to
any trouble between these brothers unless
the court thinks it proper to try this issue
in this case, to go into the entire matter.
Mr. Erwin–It is absolutely necessary to
show the motive on the part of his brother
to testify as he does.
The Court—Well, I do not think we can
try outside issues here. So far as this par-
ticular question of difficulty between the
witness and his brother, I think we will
have to limit it to that. It will have to be
confined to that question alone.
Mr. Erwin–That is all I want, and with
the understanding that if the state wants
to go into the facts they may do so with-
out our objection. All we want is a brief
statement of the difficulty between him
and his brother.
The Court—Well, you can show the con-
versation and you will have to be con-
fined to that so far as your examination
is concerned.
Q. Go on now and state, without giving
any of the circumstances, state the con-
versation which you had with your
brother Adry on the morning after the
fact occurred.
The Court–Adry has testified to two
troubles he had with him; one when he
was trying to persuade him not to kill
Miss Ging, and the other was this diffi-
culty at home on Sunday, I think it was.
Mr. Nye He was not questioned concern-
ing this other one.
The Court—He was not questioned at all
concerning this difficulty, and I think you
had better call his attention to this first–
I am not sure whether you ought not to
call Adry's attention to it, but as long as
the question has not been decided in this
state, I will permit you to examine him
Without calling his attention to it—you
can call his attention to it afterwards.
Mr. Erwin–I will call his attention to it
if the court desires.
The Court—It is not necessary.
Q. Well, go on and give the conversation
you had with Adry, the conversation you
had at the lake. A. I do not know as I
can tell the conversation without relating
the facts.
Q. Just tell the conversation you had.
A. Well, I canne into the office—shall I
tell you what I found?
The Court—You had better call his at-
tention to Adry's statement in regard to
the difficulty in the office, and the date of
it, and ask him about that.
Mr. Erwin–Adry has not been interro-
gated about this matter at all.
The Court—Well, this is another matter.
It may have been the same conversation,
I do not know.
Mr. Erwin–No, sir, this was the latter
part of April or the first of May.
The Court—Well, go on.
Q. The latter part of April or the first
of May did you go into the office and find
your watch with a deer on it in the pos-
session of Adry Hayward? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, go on and state what took place
there at that time between you and Adry?
Mr. Nye-I object to that as leading and
I ask to strike out the answer to the ques-
tion asked as incompetent, irrelevant and
immaterial and leading.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Q. Go on and state, Mr. Hayward, all
the conversation that took place on that
occasion. That morning. A. Well, when I
first saw the watch I came in the office,
and Adry was sitting on the edge of the
chair. I can see him just as plain now as
I could then.
The Court—Well, go on and state the
conversation without making any com-
ments.
The Witness—Well, I found the watch in
his hand; I told him where the watch came
from; I told him I was held up the night
before, and he staggered and stammered,
and would not tell me where he got it;
and I swore at him, and I told him, “Adry,
you tell me where you got that watch, or
I shall go out of this office and go down
to the police station,” and, figuratively
speaking, I broke him in two; and he
begged me not to go. I asked him where
the money was, and Miss Vedder's ring;
he told me, he stated the rest of the gang
had it, and he could not give it up, and he
begged me not to say anything about it.
And I was dumfounded, and I had a talk
with him, and he explained to me all about
what he had done, and there was another
which was there at the time. I said, “Adry,
if you know anything don’t tell it to me,”
that is just what I stated there to him.
Well, I was excited then if I ever was in
my life. I was stunned. I could not un-
derstand it. He was not broke, and I know
a few days before that I had been carry-
ing a large amount of money in my pocket.
He said he did not know it was me he was











OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 331
holding up, and he stuck to it, saying he
did not know it was me he was holding up,
and he talked to me in the jail in the same
way, and asked me not to say anything
about it, and I told him I would not, and
he talked to me about it in the jail in St.
Paul before Sheriff Ege.
Q. Well, never mind about that. What
was the rest of the conversation with him
when you found the watch in his hands?
A. Well, I asked him all about the circum-
stances of it—he would not tell me who the
people were, but I did get out of him the
way he went out and where he got the
horse, and you can find the record of it in
the livery stable today.
Q. Where did he get the horse? A. In
the Postoffice Livery Stable, and he got it
charged at that time.
The Court–Now, I told you you must
confine yourself to the statement made at
that time.
Q. Now, what else was said? A. He
called my attention to his children and his
wife, and asked me not to expose him. I
told him I would not, told him I could not.
And—well, I had a talk with him there I
guess for an hour and a half—for an hour
after that anyway. I asked him—I could
not understand–I asked him if he had any
conscience at all. He threw himself back
like he relates about me, and he says he
has no conscience, has no feeling on the
point at all. I asked him would you rob
me? I put it in that way that he could
not back out of it. He says, “No, I would
not rob you, but my conscience would not
trouble me any.” And that stung me. After
that talk, I think, my father came in and
I stopped talking about it. I even followed
him for days after that; I went out to his
house near Lake Calhoun and I talked with
him—I took a walk along Lake Calhoun—
The Court—Now, remember what the
court said to you.
The Witness—I thought I would place it.
The Court—I seems you had another con-
versation. With him?
The Witness—No, this was the same con-
versation.
The Court—No, it was not.
Q. Now, I will ask you if you had a con-
tinued conversation with him about his
status—about his conscience, and what he
would do—or how he felt about it? A. I
did. That was out at Lake Calhoun, pos-
sibly the next day.
The Court—Well, the question here is
what was the feeling toward one another;
you must be confined to that.
Mr. Erwin–Well now, your honor, this
is what I want to show; I want to show
a conversation–
The Court—I would be willing to let it
all in here, but it will take time to try all
these issues, and I must confine you right
to the limit.
Mr. Erwin–I have an object which the
court does not perceive at this time in
showing this conversation. I want to show
now the conversation he had with his
brother in reference to his power of con-
science over himself, and what Adry said
he could do and would naturally, without
any feeling of conscience; for in that con-
nection I will brig the witness down to
the conversation with Vallely, the hackman,
and Waterman, to show that he had at-
tempted to find out from others what the
power of their conscience would be under
like circumsances.
The court—well, as I stated before, this
must be confined to the difficulty between
him and Adry; it must be confined to that,
and it cannot go any further.
(The court here took a recess until 2
o'clock p. m.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 25.
Harry T. Hayward
Direct examination resumed by Mr. Er-
Win:
Q. You were attempting to give a con-
versation out at Lake Calhoun with your
brother, which the court held to be im-
proper.
The Court—I will say this: I understand
there is no objection on the part of the
state, and there has so much already
cropped out from Mr. Hayward's testimony
in this case, outside of the bare conversa-
tion between the parties, that I shall allow
this whole thing to go in on both sides.
Mr. Erwin–Very good. Now, Mr. Hay-
ward, in that respect I will commence
again.
The Court—I want to say that in the
opinion of the court it would be improper,
but as long as it has gone in as far as it
has, I will permit it.
Mr. Erwin—I think under almost any
other circumstances it would be improper,
but I think here it is eminently proper.
The Court—Well, go on.
Mr. Erwin–Now, then, I will ask you as
to the original fact; some time in the last
of April or the first of May last were you
riding out with Miss Ging and Miss Ved-
der? A. Yes, sir; I was.
Q. At a time when you were stopped?
A. I was.
Now you may go on and state how you
came to have and take a ride, who you
rode with, where and what was done. A.. I
did not start out in the evening to take a
drive at all. Miss Ging and Miss Vedder
and myself started out down the street
about, I should say, 7:30. Walked down
walked around awhile; went in on Nicollet
avenue between Seventh and Eighth street.
The Court—It is not necessary to go into
particulars. I want to cut this thing short.
Mr. Erwin–We want to show in good
faith our conduct in relation to this.
The Witness—Well, we started up Nic-
ollet avenue, and when we got up in the
vicinity of Grant street on Nicollet or
Twelfth street, it was proposed by one of
the ladies to go driving; and we went over
to Goosman’s and hired a rig and went out
towards, out to the Kenwood and crossed
over the Lake of the Isles to Lake Cal-
houn about 9 o'clock. While passing
through there we were stopped by a high-
wayman, I supposed, and I was robbed of
my money and my watch.
Q. Was that this watch that had the
deer on it? A. The same identical watch,
yes. The ladies had no money to speak of.
And what rings they had were well hid
except one, one that Miss Vedder had, and
that was taken from her; and after a good
deal of cussing and swearing on the part
of this highwayman we were allowed to
pass on, and we went on and went around
and went home.
Q. Now, with relation to that, when was
it that you found your watch in Adry's
possession? A: I am almost certain it was






332
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
the very next day; anyway, it was the next
time I saw him.
Q. Do you recollect now precisely the
day that this robbery occurred? A. Well,
you will find the date, that is in the news-
paper. It is a day before that. You will
find it recorded at Goosman’s on the books,
a phaeton and a horse, probably the only
time I ever had a phaeton.
Q. Do you recollect whether you had the
horse “Dan” that night? A. I am almost
certain I did; it was a quiet horse.
Q. You recollect about what time at
night you started? What time you took
the rig out? A. Later than ordinary
drive; I should say about 8:30.
Q. There is a rig and “Dan” charged to
you on the 27th day of April, the books
will be here this afternoon; on Friday, the
27th of April? A. That is all right.
Q. About 9 o'clock at night? A. The pa_
per gives it Saturday night.
Q. Then the paper gives
wrong? A. Yes, sir, it does.
Mr. Nye-One day later?
Mr. Erwin–The paper says
night and it was Friday night.
Mr. Nye-It was in fact the 27th in place
of the 28th, if you so understand it.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, that is what we under-
stand it. Now, when you found your watch
with him, state what was said, what did
you say to Adry; how did you come to ad-
dress him on that occasion? A. I grabbed
him by the shoulder. On Saturday I came
in the office and saw my watch with an-
other one lying on top of the safe, and he
stooping down, did not see me, did not
look and when I canne in I walked in and
saw the watch and he was stooping down,
and I stayed there I suppose a minute;
there wasn’t anything said, was looking
at it. Finallly he looked up and saw me
and he commenced in his—
“G- d- you, what are you sneaking
onto me and looking into my things for?”
That is the first words he stated. I did not
say anything. Now, do you want to know
what I did 2
Q. Yes. A. I went in and shut the door
and locked it, and the other door, I closed
that and went over to him. He started
some sort of bluff, swearing at me, and I
went over to him and grabbed him and
says, “You can’t bluff me now.” And I
caught him and he went down in the chair,
and I gave him to understand that I
would, that I was going to find out about
that hold up. I told him that the watch
was taken from me the night before; and
he, well, he bluffed along awhile, and final.
ly acknowledged it to me, that he did.
Mr. Nye-State what he said.
A. Well, he says—I canot state the ex:
act words; it is impossible for me to re.
member them.
The Court—State the substance of it.
A. Well, “I did it,” he says, and he ac-
knowledged it, said “I did it.” And I
asked him where the $46 was, and the ring,
and he said he could not tell me, that the
other parties, the rest of the crowd or gang
—I don’t know that he used the word
“gang,” be he gave me to understand that
there were more people that knew about
it. Well, I don’t know whether he said
crowd or gang; I don’t know which. He
would not tell me. He refused to tell me
who they were ;but he did tell me how that
in one day
Saturday
happened. I puzzled and puzzled, and I be-
lieve—well, I can’t say that.
The Court-Tell what was said and done,
and state the substance, if you cannot state
it exactly.
A. I said, “Did you know it was me was
there?” He said, “No,” he did not. Well,
then, stating what he did—
Q. How long was you talking with him
there? A. Quite a while. I don’t know
how I can tell if I can’t tell what he did
and so on.
Q. You can tell what he did and what
he said, and what you did and said.
The Court–Nothing more.
Mr. Erwin–But what your thoughts were
the court doesn't allow you to tell.
A. He says, “I did it,” he says, “with
others.” I said, “Who were the others?”
He said, “I cannot tell you; they would
kill me if I tell it. I said, “That is a likely
story.” That is the sum and substance of
it. I don’t know that I said, “That is a
likely story,” but I said something like
that. I says, “How did you get out there?”
He told me.
Q. What did he tell you? A. He told
me he got a rig around the alley there—
alley stable; he said they went out with
him. Well, I said, “Well,” I said, well, I
don’t know what I said exactly.
Q. What did you say to him about his
doing such things? A. Well–
Q. Tell it over again, what you told me
this morning. A. I can’t use the exact
words—I rebuked him terribly; I was
dumbfounded. I said, “How in the world
can you do anything like this?” and I said,
“There is no reason to warrant you in do-
ing anything like that; and it is no reason
to hold up people for a watch worth $10 or
$15, at the outside.” And he says, “No,”
and went on and told me, he says, “I have
a mania for doing these things; I like to do
these things; I like to set fire and burn
buildings.” These words he told me. I
cannot say what I did; I bluffed him about
the fire then.
Q. What did you say to him? A. I
asked him if he did not have any con-
science, or anything particularly; had a
long talk no that subject. What did he
say?
Q. Yes. A. He said he did not have
any. He said it never bothered him, any-
thing like that; did not bother him at all.
Then he went on citing cases.
Q. What cases did he cite?
Objected to as immaterial.
Mr. Erwin–This is not immaterial. These
are the same cases which he cited to the
hackman.
A. He told me—he reached out first in
touching on my father; said he would kill
my father; said he could do that; and a
number of other cases, and I think that
along about that ime—well, I cannot say
that—the conversation was stopped there;
somebody came in the office. That is all
the talk at that time.
Q. Did you have a talk with him at Lake
Calhoun A. Yes, sir.
A further talk on this subject of
conscience? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did he tell you then? A. Do
you want to know where I was when the
conversation took place?
Q. Yes, sir, and when was it? A. It
was Saturday, I think, the next day, Satur-
day; that would be the 27th, 28th, 29th; out

















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
333
there on Lake Calhoun boulevard, along
there, and there is where all these blood-
thirsty things and terrible, horrible words
of killing people was discussed right there.
Q. What did he say; who discussed
them? A. I was standing there and a lady
went by on horseback.
The Court—What did he say about that?
We cannot have so many issues.
Mr. Erwin–I propose to show that Adry
Hayward said certain postulates to him,
which he afterwards stated to the hack-
man, in testing the hackman's conscience.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court—The question is for the pur-
pose of impeaching the testimony of Adry
Hayward, on the ground that there were
difficulties between Adry and the defend-
ant; and it must be confined to that diffi-
culty.
Mr. Erwin–The state has introduced tes-
timony by a hackman.
The Court—It is too remote.
Mr. Erwin–I ask that the hackman’s
testimony be stricken out.
The Court—It has nothing to do with
Adry.
Mr. Erwin–It has to do with this de-
fendant. This defendant heard this from
Adry and put it to this hackman.
The Court—You can prove it by the hack-
man if you want to prove it by anybody.
Mr. Erwin–The hacknman did not know
it. I claim that Adry stated this same
proposition, that he could do these things,
that he had a mania and had no con-
science afterwards.
man inquired of several parties whether
they could do such things as that without
being controlled by conscience.
The Witness—Elder Stewart in one way.
Mr. Nye–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I offer to show that those
things which Mr. Vallely testified to were
suggested to him by Harry Hayward as to
whether he could do these things and his
conscience permit him, were suggested to
the witness by Adry Hayward at this time
on Lake Calhoun, about which Adry Hay-
ward said his conscience would not trouble
him.
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
incompetent and too remote.
Objection sustained. Exception.
The Witness—A good many others just
like Valleley that I ain’t told about.
Mr. Erwin–To be followed by testimony
connecting identical matters with Vallely,
and the resason of his talk with Vallely.
Same objection. Objection sustained.
Exception.
Mr. Erwin–I will ask to introduce the
conversation in October, at the time of the
trouble with the father and Adry, a con-
versation between Adry and this witness
in October, after the trouble with the
father. That was the 7th or 8th of Octo-
ber. The trouble was at the Ozark. The
father had trouble with Adry, as has been
testified to by Adry and by the father and
mother, about the 7th or 8th of October.
The Court—You called the witness' at-
tention to it; where you called the witness
Adry's attention to it, you can call on this
witness, call his attention to the same
thing, and let him give his version of that
statement, of that transaction.
I will show that this
Q. Do you recollet the trouble that Adry
had with your father, and said that he had
trouble with you in the Ozark on the 7th
of October, on Sunday? A. Yes, sir, I re-
member.
Q. Now, this has been read once or
twice. I suppose as an impeaching ques-
tion I will have to read this over again.
The Court—Just call his attention to it.
Mr. Erwin–Adry Hayward testified, on
the 7th of October “My mother came into
my flat and said to me that there was some
trouble with father about money affairs.
Harry had been talking to her especially
about troble.”
The Court—It is not necessary to read it
over. Call his attention to that time, and
let him state what he said.
Mr. Erwin–That is the course I wanted
to take. Now, o nthe 7th day of October,
I wish you would give your version of this
trouble. A. I was in the flat lying down
on the lounge ; mother and father were
in there, and my brother came in; came
in wild, as usual; and some talk started—
I don’t remember just what it was—it was
such a common thing I did not notice it;
and it was about this money (stealing
money) that he had been taking.
Mr. Nye-I move to strike out all such
remarks as that.
The Court—I want to have you under-
stand that when you are called upon to
state what was said and done at a par-
ticular place, you must state what was
said and done, and not interpolate any of
your opinions.
The Witness—I was saying that.
The Court—State it as you did.
A. Well, my father said, “You have been
stealing money of me.” Do you want the
conversation my father and mother had,
or just my brother?
The Court—All that was had between you
and the family.
Mr. Nye-Not your conclusions.
The Witness—That was no conclusion.
That was said.
Mr. Erwin–Go on, and state as far as
you can what he said, what your father
said, and what your mother said, and what
you said, and what each one did on this
occasion; try to reproduce that picture
just exactly as it was, words and all. A.
Well, my father—my mother was talking a
good deal to him; suppose you don’t want
that, because she was talking a good daal
—you want the words?
Q. Just state it in your own way. A. It
is impossible for me to recall the identical
words she used. I cannot do it.
Mr. Nye-Give the substance of it.
Mr. Erwin–What was she talking about?
A. About Adry taking the money.
Q. Taking the money from your father?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was Adry's appearance, condi-
tion, as to his answers and speech? A. He
was mad, cursing and wild. -
Q. What was your mother’s demeanor?
A. quiet, very quiet; coaxing him to keep
quiet.
Q. What was your father's demeanor? A.
At first my father did not say anything.
Q. What was said about his having
money, or having received some insurance
that he could pay it out of, anything of
that kind? A. Yes, father told him, or my
mother, that he had this insurance money,
that he could pay that money out of that.






35: OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Adry said he could not, or would not; I
don’t know which.
Q: What was the amount in dispute in
that conversation there? A. Well, at that
time it was $75.
Q: What did he say about robbing, or
did he claim there was nothing wrong with
the cash? A. He did, yes, sir.
Q. And your father said there was some-
thing wrong? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was $75 short? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you interfere at all in this trans-
action, or say anything until after your
father and he had troubles over the matters
which he said to your mother? A. No,
sir.
Q. He testified that you kept interfering
and saying, “Why don't you give him the
money; you know you have got the
money?” A. He did not.
Q. He swore that he told you not to in-
terfere, that he knew too much about you,
too much about you? A. Part of that is
so. After he was cursing my mother and
my father was up to stop him, I stepped up
as peacemaker.” He turned on me then.
That is when his trouble started with me.
Q: What did he say to you? A. Well,
I don't think right away on that point that
there was much of anything. He says,
“You keep your fingers out of this,” some-
thing to that effect. I went up to him and
said, “Adry,” I did not go at him with force
—I said, “Adry,” don't you see how your
father is.” Father was, just then he was
paralyzed, and I was afraid he would drop
dead or something; and I took Adry by the
arm and says, “Here, come out of this
building; go out,” and I took him out, that
way. I was coaxing him more than any-
thing else, and took him out of the flat,
and told him, “You go down below until
you get quiet; I then went back to the room
there and my father was in a terrible fit.
He could hardly stand.
The Court—That doesn't answer the ques-
tion.
Mr. Nye. It had better be stricken out.
Mr. Erwin–I have no objection to strik-
ing it out at all.
Q. He testified that he said that he told
you not to interfere, and that he told you
he knew too much about you, and that you
said, “You dry up and get out of this flat,
or I will get a knife and rip you?” A. I
did not. Do you want me to tell about
that, who said it, and where it was?
Q. Yes, sir. A. Well, after he went out
of the flat, about three minutes after that,
I went down-
Mr. Nye That is another conversation?
A. It is where he threatened my life.
Mr. Erwin–If he threatened your life,
tell it. A. I went down to his wife's flat.
His wife came to the door and told me to
look out, that he has got a revolver. I did
not care anything about that, and told her
to tell him to come out, that he knew I
had no grudge against him; then he came
out, and went into the hall below with me
into my flat. Do you want to know the
whole conversation? I told him that he
ought to be ashamed of himself, and so on,
and he turned on me like a wildcat, and
told me, he said, “I will cut your guts out
if you do not keep your fingers out of this
business.” And I stood back there and
laughed at him. I said, “You know you
daren't monkey around me; you know I
can send you to Stillwater any minute.”
He quieted down then, the same as he al-
ways does, in any row I have ever got
into with him in the least after that hold-
up.
Q. Adry testifies that during the summer
and fall you mentioned that you were in-
vesting money for a woman, and gambling
occasionally, but did not mention her
name; what is there about that; is that
true or not true? A. That is practically
true, yes, sir.
Q. Did he know of your affairs? A. Yes.
Q. Did he know all about this loanº A.
He did.
. He knew all about the circumstances
of it? A. He did.
Q. Did he know about gambling with
Miss Kate Ging, about her being your part-
ner at times in gambling operations? ...A.
He did.
Q. He testified that you said to him that
you made some investments for that wo-
man, that you would win sometimes and
lose sometimes, and if you lost occasional-
ly you would pay her something anyway to
let her go deeper into the scheme; and said
it was policy to do that. A. I never said
any such thing.
Q. Did you consult with him about hav-
ing the note, Miss Ging's note upon the
mill property, discounted? A. Well, I did
not mean about consulting him. He knew
of it.
Q. Did he go with you to Hamill and
talk with the miller? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He says that two or three weeks af-
terwards you came in the office one day
and informed him that you were lucky,
that the mill had burned down, and that
you would probably handle the money for
her? A. I never told him that. I told him
that the mill had burned.
Q. He says that along in August, the
latter part of August, you spoke to him
about the dressmaker. Did you ever speak
of Miss Ging to him as the dressmaker?
A. I had a good many rows with him in
regard to Miss Ging. I always spoke to
him of her as “Kate,” and he has time
and again cast slurs on her because she
was a dressmaker, did not think she was
good enough for me. -
Objected to as incompetent,
and immaterial.
Sustained.
Q. Have you ever referred to her as a
dressmaker in talking to him? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you in connection with the latter
part of August speak to him about Miss
Ging, calling her the dressmaker, and
about her being hard up, and said she
wanted you to pawn a ring for her? A.
That is hardly possible; I don’t remember
it; but I pawned the ring for her, and per-
haps told him.
Witness was here read Adry's testimony
that Harry told him he had a hackman
who would kill a woman, etc., and re-
plied: “It is all untrue except—well, I
don’t know that I can tell here. Well,
after this hold up and conscience talk, I
told him of different people I had talked
to about the conscience business; and I
cited this hack driver. I said: “There is
a man considered a good deal tougher man
than you are, and he has got a con-
science.”
Q. Did you describe the gentleman, the
hackman? A. Yes; told him all about
him.
irrelevant






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
335
Q. Then you have told Odry that you
submitted these propositions to this hack-
man; fleshy hackman? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And he would not do anything; that
he was a man tougher than he was? A.
Yes.
Q. Is that the only particle of truth in
this whole statement? A. That is all. Do
you want me to tell something else?
Q. Anything about that; yes. A. It per-
tains to that. It is where I told him about
finding somebody that had as tough a con-
science as him, but it was not Blixt or a
man. It was a woman.
Q. He also says that you proposed to
drown her in different ways, getting her
out in a boat to drown her; that you ob-
jected to that later on, and said it would
look like suicide. Was there any such a
thing as that alked about? A. He said
he did not know; spoke about a murder
a little while before that, and the lake
was frozen over then; I don’t see how it
could be talked.
Q. Did he ever talk to you; in his talk
did he ever tell you that he could drown
a person. A. Yes.
Q. When and where did he tell you that?
A. He said at Lake Calhoun—
Objected to as immaterial.
Q. Did you ever have a talk with him
about drowning a woman? A. Nothing;
only relating to that time when he talked
to me about it in regard to his conscience;
that is all.
Mr. Nye—This seems to show very inti-
mate relations.
The Court—I would like to have you con-
fine it.
Mr. Nye–Objected to as immaterial, in-
competent and irrelevant.
The Court—I want it confined to the diffi-
culties between these two.
Mr. Erwin–He swears that you proposed
driving her out in a buggy, and wondered
how she would fall in case she struck a
boulder; whether she would fall towards
the boulder or from the boulder when she
struck. Did you ever have any such talk
as that? A. Never.
Q. Nothing of the kind whatever? A.
Never; nothing pertaining to it; that is, in
regard to this woman. My talk to him
never was that way.
Q. He said you also talked of driving her
out in a buggy and she would get en-
tangled in the lines, and you would let
the horse run away and it would kill her.
Did you have any such talk as that? A. I
never talked that to him; no.
Q. He says that on the morning of the
8th of November, early in November, just
before you left for Chicago, he said that
you came to his flatand said to him they
were all mixed up at the office, and you
asked him to come back, and had been re-
quested to do so by father, and he agreed
to come back. A. I cannot answer that
without explaining.
Q. Explain it and give your version of
it. A. Well, his wife had been up to my
father trying—. He came to me, wanted to
see if I would not intercede for him, and
get him back in the office. I did. I went
º father and explained it to him. I
Said–
Mr. Nye-Never mind that conversation.
The Witness—Well, he wanted me to in-
tercede with father. I went away then
and came back again, and said, “I have in-
terceded for you and made a success of
it.” I aslo said, “Now you go down there
and see if you cannot run that business
without stealing.” That is what I said to
him. He said, “Harry, I will ltry it.” I
said then, “You know what I can do with
you.” I said, “Now, you do it.” Well, he
was very meek. He says that I will do it,
and then thanked me for getting back
in the office.
Q. He says the morning of the 6th of
November, you showed him some money;
he thinks there was a newspaper wrapped
around it, and wanted to know whether
the banks or vaults were open; it was elec-
tion day. He said, no. He said, “I will
have to stay for another night.” This was
at the Ozark. He had not had his break-
fast. He wanted me to go with him to get
breakfast, to breakfast at the Continental;
and you said you were busted up, for him
not to think that you had more than
enough to pay for a meal? A. Practically
so, except the “busted” part.
Q. After that he says, “Harry did not
say a great deal to me about the woman;
he stated at that time that he was through
with me , that I was no good, that I had
no nerve, and that you had found a man
that was good, that had the nerve, that
he was an ex-policeman, and cut his words
short, and that that man's name was
13 lixt;” did you ever have such a talk as
that with him? A. I will have to explain
that a little.
Q. Explain it if you ever had any such
talk. Anything like that? A. The talk was
when he was talking about her; it was
where we had a row. I told him if he could
not mention her in a respectful way he
had bette shut his mouth and not mention
her at all.
Q. Did you have any talk with him as he
testified to about your having a man named
Blixt, and you tested his nerve, that I read
you there? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, he says about three days later
than the morning of the 6th of November,
you and he were going down stairs and
you pulled a package of bills out of your
pocket, and he naturally grabbed the bills
and pulled them open, and he said, “You
are not supposed to know what they are,
what there is in there;” and he saw a
great many one dollar bills in the package.
A. Nothing of the kind. He snatched a
package away from me of hundered dollar
dills. He did that some time close to this
time, after I came back from Chicago.
Q. Was there any one dollar bills in
that package, as he testifies to here? A.
Not one.
Q. He then testifies that you said you
had applied to the New York Life and
the young lady had been examined and
passed all right, and she was to get $7,000
insurance, and the papers went on to New
York, and he came in one day and stated
they had come back and there was some
flaw in them, something that was not sat-
isfactory to him, and you sent them back
to be examined and corrected, and you
were expecting them every day. On that
occasion you said “Damn her, I will kill
her any way because she is such a fool to
make a mistake and get out a $5,000 pol-
icy instead of a seven thousand. Dam her,
I will kill her any way now, if I don't get
a cent.” A. I never had such a talk.



336 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. This was from the 19th to the 21st of
November? A. I will tell you, some of it,
some of that is so; just simply the par-
ticulars and the facts pertaining to this
loan and insurance he knew. I always
talked with him about my affairs.
Q. He knew all about the truthful side
of this loan? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But the side which he puts to it is an-
other sidet? A. Another side that I never
heard of.
Q. He says a few days after that, the
19th or 21st of November, that on the next
day he said that she had told him that
she was going to get an accident policy for
$5,000, and now he said that you said,
“Through her making a bull out of the
other, I will make more money than I in-
tended to. I will make notes now for the
full amount of the policies, for $10,000?”
A. I never told him anything like that.
Had the notes before that.
Q. He says that you expected her to be
in most any time; that you saw the attor-
neys up town, and about the time of the
loan—this will be the 24th, and you prepar-
ed the notes, you got them ready, three or
four notes that you wrote. Now, if you
will explain what that was. A. Two as-
signments and one note
Q. I show you these two assignments,
“Received of Harry T. Hayward, a part of
the value received.” A. For the assign-
ment of the Travelers policy.
Q. And the other one, “Received of
Harry T. Hayward, $1, in part value of
the assignment of the life policy”—that was
in the New York Life? A, Yes, sir; those
two partial assignments, with the excep-
tion of the numbers and the $7,000 note,
was written out the morning of Nov. 24,
and was there in that office.
Q. Now, the assignments, those two as-
signments, are not in the same colored ink
as the notes (showing witness). The sig-
natures to the assignments are the same,
but the color of the ink? A. I see the notes
are not all the same color. I see they are
written at different times.
Mr. Nye-Let the jury judge whether they
are or not.
Mr. Erwin–That is all right. Did you
write these notes at different tables there
in the office; the assignments and the note;
the $7,000 note? A. I don’t remember about
that.
Q. Now, he puts in his testimony that
you asked him at the time these notes were
made—“if I changed my ink and put in
new ink. I told him yes, I had new ink,
and that father had old ink in his ink well.
He went into the room later on, and I saw
he had three or four notes; I will swear to
three.” Now, did you ask him at that time
about his having changed ink? A. I never
heard anything about any ink.
Q. What is the reason of that?
Mr. Nye-The reason of what?
Mr. Erwin–How can you account for
that testimony?
Objected to as immaterial.
Sustained. Exception. -
Q. Was there anything ever said by you
to him about his having changed ink? A.
I don’t remember anything.
(Witness here denied Adry's testimony
that he had said on Nov. 30 that the
dressmaker must be sacrificed, and also to
the talk about asking Adry to be a wit-
ness to the signing of the note and Adry's
refusal.) |
(Witness was then asked about the scene
detailed by Adry where Harry got excited
over Adry's remonstrating with him about
his plan to murder Miss Ging, and said
nothing of the kind occurred.)
Q. That is the day on which you wrote
the letter to Miss Ging, is it not, which you.
have described in your testimony as send-
ing out by a messenger boy or Jack With-
erspoon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have any talk with him that
day that you remember of 2 A. I don’t re-
member any talk at all; only we had a
little talk, if you want it.
Q. Anything of this character? A. No,
sir, nothing of that character.
(Witness next denied a continuation of
the talk abouve outlined in which Adry
claimed Harry had told him about having
killed three men, having caused a fire in
the Eest at a loss of half a million dol-
lars, etc.)
Q. The next was he says on Saturday
Dec. 1, that he walked down town with you.
Do you recollect walking down with him
Saturday morning? A. I don’t remember
it, but I have walked down town with him;
but I cannot remember anything about any
certain morning.
Q. He says in that conversation that
morning, that you said to him, “You had
better be a little careful where you are go-
ing to be for the next two or three days,
because something is going to happen.”
Did you ever have any such talk with him?
A. Never in the world.
Q. He said Saturday evening, about 6
o'clock, he came to you flat and said,
“Where are you going to be tonight?”
“Why,” I says, “I am going to be here,
going to beat home,” and that you said,
“Well, you had better take your wife and
go to the theater.” He said, “I won’t do
anything of the kind.” That you said,
“You had better not stay at home, as
something is liable to happen, and your
wife's evidence will be no good if you stay
at home.” A. I never told him anything
of the kind.
Q. And he said Sunday or Monday, he
didn’t remember which, you said, “I un-
derstood you were out looking for papers
early Sunday morning?” And he said “I
was. I was afraid something was going to
happen.” And you said, “You did not find
anything, did you?” And he said, “No,”
and you smiled? A. Never heard about
any paper talk at all.
Q. He testified that on the day after at
1:30 you came into the office and he asked
you and said, “Harry, where is Mr. Water-
man? You are not trying to get him into
trouble, are you?” And you said, “Oh, I
have got him out next door filling him up,
and he may get into trouble.” A. When I
was in the office and Waterman next door
was about 4 o’clock
Q. Did you have any such talk with him
that you were filling him up that he might
get into trouble? A. No, sir. I told him
this. He wanted to know what I wanted
the money for. I told him I did not have
any money. I had been trying to coax this
money out of him. It was money that I
loaned him.
Q. When did you loan him? A. A few
days after Nov. 9; a day or three days.
Q. Where was he when you loaned him
the money?
Objected to as immaterial.

OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 337
-
Sustained. Exception.
Q. How much money did you loan him.9%
A. $100
Q. Under what contract; how was it to
be paid back?
Same objection. Sustained. Exception.
Q. Now, this money, when you got
money of him at the Ozark, was he owing
you money? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much money was he owing you
at that time? A. If he paid me ten dol-
lars before he paid it, he owed me $50. If
he paid me $5 before he paid, he owed me
$45
Q. You don’t know whether he paid you
five or ten dollars that night? A. No, sir,
but he now owes me $40.
Q. He says that that night when you
came to him at the Ozark, that it was be-
tween 17 and 23 minutes to 8? A. I think
it is 22.
Q. He says that at that time you said to
him, “You had better go to the theater
tonight,” and he said, “Why?” and you
said, “Because something is going to hap-
pen tonight.” And he said, “No, Harry,
you must not do it,” and talked to you;
and that you spoke to him, spoke very
low, “It will have to be done; don’t bother
me; take your wife and go to the theater,
get away from me,” waving his hand.
And that you said, “If you don’t go to
the theater, if you won’t go, will you go
down to my flat about 9:30, and see if my
revolver is under my pillow?” And he
said, “I won’t go near your flat.” Then
you said, “Well, will you put your curtain
up to the window on the corner if there
is any unusual excitement on the corner
of Thirteenth and Hennepin at that time?”
And he said he would not do anything of
the kind. Was there any such talk as
that? A. No such talk whatever. Noth-
ing at all.
Q. He says that Wednesday after the
murder, between 5 and 6, he went into your
room, seeing a light, and that you were
washing; that he made a remark, “This
is terrible,” and that you said, “Don’t
ever speak of it again. In a week's time
I will have forgotten all about it.” A.
There never was any such talk, no time.
Q. His last remark was, that while you
were in the cell you said, “Oh, well, Blixt
will stick it out; besides, I cannot be sure
that Blixt did it. I am not so sure but
what the man that did it is in New York
at the present time. I am more afraid of
what you might say than anybody else.”
Did you ever have any such talk as that
with him? A. No, sir, except the man
that I spoke about, saying that I believed
who ever did that was out of the coun-
try. Can I say something more?
Q. What is it about? A. About the
newspaper business in the cell.
Q. Yes, sir. A. He testified that I was
reading the newspaper about Blixt; we had
no newspapers, and nothing was ever pub-
lished in the papers about Blixt at that
time. Blixt was not arrested. It was
not possible. Look that date up and Blixt.
is not in the newspaper that day. Besides,
we never had any newspapers any way.
So I don’t think there is much likelihoo
of that being so. -
Mr. Nye-I move to strike it out.
The Court—Motion granted.
Mr. Erwin-Exception noted.
The Court—It is all stricken out except
that there was not any newspaper in the
cell. The other is argumentative.
The Witness—There was not any news-
paper; may have had some paper, some-
thing or other, old papers, something of
that kind, but I mean daily papers.
The Court—You had no paper having an
account of it?
A. That is what I mean, yes, sir.
Q. Did you see a lady on the stand by
the name of Emma Goodale? A. Yes,
Slr.
Q. Give your own version of your in-
terview with her. A. Well, she is practi.
cally, you might say, pretty near correct,
that is, except—well, I know about what
it was. She said in substance that I came
there and hired her to tell Miss Ging so
and so. That part of it is not so. I came
there, well, you might say to get pointers
on gambling, and we got the pointers and
we paid her; paid her $2 and we paid her
$10 lots of times. In fact, she got to dun-
ning us so much for money that we quit
her.
Q. State what she professed to be able
to do in relation to foretelling the future,
and in regard to gambling? A. She pro-
fessed to be able to do it, and it kind of
struck me she could for a while; she did
seem to hit it pretty well for a while. Then
she missed it.
Q. She said that you said she would
never want for money; was there anything
of that kind? A. That is so, I think she
told us three or four times straight that
we would win, and we won. Paid her $2
and then $5 and then $10, and I told her
“If you keep this gait up, we won’t any
of us want money after a while.” About
her stating how much we lost, or what we
put in $1,300, that may be so, but I know
she has put in more than that different
times. That was practically so at that
time, but I know she put in more.
Q. Did you ever ask Mrs. Goodale to tell
Miss Ging anything, Mrs. Goodale testi-
fied that you said you wanted her to tell
Miss Ging different things, etc. Now, if
she intends to intimate there that you
offered her money to represent to Miss
Ging that Miss Ging would win more
money, is that true? A. No, sir, that is
not true.
Q. What did you say to her and what
did she say to you at that first interview
before Miss Ging went there? A. I will tell
you; I don’t think I went there first at all
alone, I think we all went down there to-
gether.
Q. What was your first interview with
her, as you remember it? A. I will tell
you. I remember distinctly, now; the first
interview was just about the time of the
hold-up, and she told me about that hold-
up, but she told me the people, who they
were, and I kind of snickered and did not
say anything, but I knew she had missed
that. She told me that. She did tell me
about the hold-up and she did not know me
either.
Q: What was said about money affairs,
about gambling? A. Well, I don’t remem-
ber. I think it was when she was in a
trance.
Q. Did you have any talk with her at all
attempting to get her to make false rep-






338 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
resentations to Miss Ging? A. No, sir,
nothing of the kind.
Q. What did she tell you about her
ability to predict when you would win? A.
She said she could; when we went down
the first time. I don’t think that is what
we went for; we just went down for the
fun of it, to see what she could tell us. I
have been to a thonsand fortune tellers.
Q. I will ask you whether you ever of
fered her anything or made her any prom-
ise or tried to get her to make any false
representations to Miss Ging about gam-
bling? A. No, sir, nothing of that kind
Whatever. I did tell her after We had
made a number of winnings, and she had
struck the nail on the head a number of
times, that if she would keep that gait up
that we would get all the money and divvy
up with her, if she could manage to keep it
up. It did for awhile seem like she could.
Although I never took much stock in
these things, I always believe in giving
superstition the benefit of the doubt.
Q. There is one other subject I want to
ask you about. Explain the talk you had
with the hackmen Vallely. A. I think he
got it about straight.
Q. What was your reason of having that
talk with him? A. Well, just for the same
reason that I talked the same thing with
lots of others. I wanted to see how far he
would go, what he would do; what his
conscience would let him do, and whether
he would directly or indirectly connect it
with any kind of crime or anything of the
kind.
Q. Was it for the purpose of getting him
to do any kind of a crime, or was it for
the purpose of testing his conscience to see
about the truth of Adry's statement, that
he had no conscience.
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant,
immaterial and leading.
Q. Was it for the purpose of having him
do any crime? A. No, sir.
Q. It was never followed up? A. No, sir,
never.
Q. Did you contemplate any crime at
that time? A. Never. I wish they would
bring in Elder Stewart on that conscience
business.
Q. I will ask you generally, have you
ever connived in any way or manner, to
have Miss Ging assaulted, or robbed, or
murdered? A. Never, in any way what-
ever, wehther directly or indirectly; never
thought of such a thing.
Q. It is testified here that Miss Ging
took a ride on Tuesday, the 27th, and Sat-
urday, Dec. 1. Now, I want to ask you
whether you were on either of those occa-
sions with her on those rides? A. I was
not. I did not know of the rides until
11:30, Dec. 3, in that neighborhood.
Q. There is one statement of Mr. Blixt
which I omitted to ask you categorically,
and I think there is only one, and that is,
that Mr. Blixt says in his testion y here,
that you told him that you had told Miss
Ging to say to Goosman not to tell Harry
that she was out. Now, did you ever say
anything like that to Blixt? A. I did not,
because I did not know any thing about
the drives, and could not have said any-
thing about it.
Q. Did you in fact tell Miss Ging any-
thing of the kind? A. No, sir.
Mr. Erwin–I think if I have omitted any-
thing I shall ask to recall the witness. As
it stands now I thing that is all I have to
ask you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. How long since you started in to
gamble?A. For money you mean—is that
what you mean? I have gambled with mar-
bles when I was a kid. If you mean
money-
Q. Well, call it money, then. A. Well,
I should say at the time of the World's
Fair, the Cotton Centennial at New Or-
leans, 1883, 10 or 11 or 12 years ago; I think
in that neighborhood was the first time.
Q. You were traveling over the country
even then some? A: I made very few trips
before that.
Q. Quite a long while, quite a number of
years before you were 20, you had really
acquired the habit of gambling? A. No,
Slr.
Q. You were only 19 then—that was 10
years ago. You are 29 now. A. Probably
I never gambled after that again for a
long while.
Q. Do you know that you did not? A.
I am sure of it.
Q. What period of time does all these
extensive travels from one city to another
cover? A. Well, when the main gambling
was done, when I commenced to gamble to
amount to anything, was five years ago,
and it got to be heavy two or three years
ago.
Q. You gambled in most every leading
city in the United States; you named a
great many to your counsel; it was not
necessary to name any more? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that all within five years last
past? A. All except down South in Texas
and out at Leadville, and I think that was
before that time; but out West it was very
heavy.
Q. Is it not a fact that even in your
teens, several years before you were 20,
you were traveling and gambling to some
extent? A. To some extent, yes.
Q. Have you ever had any business prac-
tically other than gambling? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What? A. Let me see—I worked for
a while in Jeffrey's carpet store. That was
when he was down at 217, I think, Nicollet
avenue. It was a long while ago; worked
for him two or three times; it must be 10
years ago.
. You never have learned any trade?
A. No, sir.
Q. You never have studied any profes-
sion 2 A. No, sir.
Q. You have never had for any consid-
erable time any regular calling have you?
A. No, sir; I used to keep books.
Q. Your father gave you quite a prop-
erty several years ago? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That went at the gambling tables,
principally? A. No, sir, it did not.
Q. Are you sure about that? A. I am
very certain; I know it.
Q. Where is it now? A. Well, it escap-
ed Dec. 3.
Q. It escaped Dec. 3? A. Yes.
Q. Now, Dec. 3, or the morning really of
Nov. 24, is the trade of that property, is
it? A. Directly and indirectly, it is.
Q. That was real estate, wasn’t it, valu-
able real estate in the city? A. Yes.
Q. It was ultimately either mortgaged
or conveyed to Elder Stewart, wasn’t it,








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
339
most of it? A. Most of it; some of it was
mortgaged. -
Q. You had no remaining interest in it?
A. Not now, no, sir.
Q. This $7,000 came directly or indirectly
from that and nothing else? A. Let me
see—most of it—I had some of it before
that.
Q. Well, about how much do you think
you had? A. Oh, I don’t know; may be
$2,000.
represented all that you had, really, didn't
it, except your personal effects? A. $9,500
represented about by total capital.
Q. Represented everything? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was the fruit of the gift from your
father of this property? A. Yes, sir, and
$2,000 before; I don’t know that it was
$2,000; but some money.
Q. And you are without
A. Yes, sir.
And your father pays the expense
of this defense, doesn’t he? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You knew as a matter of fact that
the insurance policies had no particular
surrender value, no real value as se-
curities? A. I did, yes, sir.
Q. The actual value as security would
be what would be the surrender value of
the policy? A. Possibly $25.
Q. That is what the company would
pay? A. Yes.
Q. That would be nothing? A. Practi.
cally nothing.
Q. For a great many months, or at least
since April, Miss Ging had been thorough-
ly infatuated with the habit and practice
of gambling? A. Not for a great many
months that I know of.
Q. Eince April? A. Not that I know of;
clear up to December she was not.
Q. Give me the estimate of the total that
she put in? A: I would put it somewhere
about $2,000.
| And you knew that to be through
April, and May, and June, and July, and
into August? A. No, I will state—I am
making a pretty broad gauge—I could not
really state the first of July, but will
stretch it to the middle.
Q. You concluded to stretch it down to
the 19th of July? A. I knew there was
none after that.
Q. You mean that during that period of
º she was fascinated with gambling? A.
es.
Q. Had you seen anything from that
time till Nov. 24 to indicate she had aban-
doned the practice and desire to gamble?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. She was doing business really there
in a small way, millinery business? A. No,
she was not in the millinery business, she
was dressmaking.
Q. That is, she had two or three modest
rooms there in a block, and one or two
helpers? A: I don’t know how many help-
ºrs. -
Q. She had no capital more than it would
cost to rent the rooms, and the sewing ma-
chines, etc.? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You know of no property she had
aside from the interest in the Hamill mill?
º I knew of nothing, only what she told
e.
Q: Did you understand that she had any
considerable amount of property outside
of that? A. I understand she was worth,
she had about $3,000 herself. I believed she
means nows?
Now, on the 24th of Nevember, that
had $3,000 here, and I believed she had quite
considerable property East.
Q. Yet there was the fruit of your fath-
er's gift and all that you had acquired,
you were loaning to a girl or some one who
had but very little to secure you with,
and did not propose to secure you with
anything, and you turned that all over,
$7,000, on the 24th of November, after hav-
ing previously loaned her $2,500? A. Yes,
sir.
And upon the mere verbal under-
standing that she would buy a stock of
goods and go into business? A. Yes, sir,
Q. And would possibly give you a chattel
mortgage on the stock? A. Yes.
Q. And that mere verbal promise outside
of the insurance policies, was all the in-
ducement that you had to make that loanº
A. She had my lot once.
Q. I ask you if that was not the only
inducement that led you to make the loanº
A. When I stated that lot, I know that is
all, that is about all the inducement.
Q. Is it not true, speaking now of your
personal characteristics and habits, is it
not true that aside from the habit of gam-
bling that you have been rather close with
money among your friends? A. I think
that is so.
Q. You never was a lavish man with your
money; you never spent much money on
your friends, have you? A. Not with the
men ; no.
Q. Had you ever, upon the 24th of No-
vember, thought of absolutely clearing
your pockets of all you had, your entire re-
sources, on any collateral securities what-
ever? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When was that? A. Always. And last
year I have made it a point to get the
money out of my possession to keep it
away from me.
Q. But you have always made it a point
to have a large amount of money with you
when you were gambling? A. Well, yes,
but after that I would, you might say,
hedge, to get it away.
Q. You took that $7,000 with you when
you went to Chicago to gamble, with Gar-
rity? A. No, sir, not all of it.
Q. How much of it? A. $5,000 or $6,000. I
should say $6,000.
Q. Where was the rest of it? A. In my
safe. -
Q. Well, now, do you mean to have the
court and jury understand that you consid=
ered that that was a safe, practicable, sen-
sible thing for a young man to do, to risk
his entire fortune in the hands of a woman
whom you knew had gambled quite ex-
tensively, and whose resources were ap-
parently small and whose future success
was a matter of speculation? A. I think
so; yes, sir. I have trusted that woman
thoroughly, and I would have loaned her
if she hadn't of had any more than a
thousand dollars instead of what she had.
Q. Now, you had let her have $2,500 be-
fore that? A. Yes, sir.
You said somewhere in your direct
testimony that that was to be paid imme-
diately, probably that day, Saturday? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Can you make clear to the jury why
you didn’t deduct the $2,500 from the $7,000
and take a note for the $7,000 and surrender
the other two notes? A. Well, a person in
my circumstances, gambling and so on,
and the money not being paid by check,







340
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
and we always being in the habit of keep-
ing my money out of the bank, in case
any trouble or anything should have come
from it, I thought perhaps it might be
doubted, therefore I went to an attorney
and explained the circumstances to him,
and I got his advice just exactly how to do
i
Q. You thought that might be doubted,
that you paid her the money? A. Exactly.
Q: Why did you have the two witnesses
there to see her sign the notes, without
having them witness her counting over
the $7,000? A. Because they witnessed her
acknowledgement, saying that she had
counted it.
Q. Were they not there to witness that
transaction, so that you could prove you
gave full and complete consideration for
those notes—were they not there to witness
the transaction themselves aside from the
execution of the notes? A. No, I never
knew of a witness knowing the full con-
tents of a note or a paper.
Q. Now, you thought it might be doubted
whether you paid her that money or not?
A. Possibly it might.
Q. But you had loaned her $2,500 before
that, and then had her notes for $2,5002 A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And witnesses in there to witness
that transaction? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why did not you, in her presence, ex-
plain to the witness that you had before
that time loaned Miss Ging $2,500 and took
her notes— now, I am lending her enough
more to make it $7,000 and I am going to
to take a $7,000 note for $7,000, and count it
in the presence of the witnesses? A. Yes,
sir, I shall explain that. Because in case
it ever became necessary to look it up
under those circumstances it would have
been necessary to have gone to the bottom
of each of these three loans; and now as
it is it is only necessary to go to the bot-
tom of that $7,000 loan, and the other three
loans have nothing to do with it at all.
Q. Why did Miss Ging go into another
room to count that money? A. Because
there was no place in that room to count
it.
Q. Is not the whole transaction left open
in such a way as to be of the utmost sus-
picious character? A. I think not.
Q. You mean to swear to this jury that
you were taking every precaution to show
that this was an honest, bona fide trans-
action 2 A. I do. I followed out the at-
torney’s advice to the letter.
Q. Who was it? A. The attorney that
was on the stand here.
Q. Do you mean to tell me or this jury
that that man ever told you to have her
go into another room and have her count
the money in there? A. No, I thought
most anybody with any common sense could
see that.
Q. Then you never followed out his ad-
vice to the letter? A. He never told me
just where to have her sit and count the
money.
Q. You mean Mr. Angels? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any talk with Mr. Angels
about having witnesses to witness the
counting of that money? A. Not that I re-
member of.
Q. Did you let Miss Ging have $500 on
the 19th day of July, '94? A. Either that
day or just preceding it. I think—I am
almost certain that that money was paid
and a note signed up in the Ozark flats.
Q. At the time that note bears date? A.
I feel pretty certain of that one. Not
really positive of it—because under the cir-
cumstances those three notes—the money
was given and so on—why, there is some
doubt to it, because I used her, as you
might say, as a repository for those three
notes, for the money those three notes was
taken for.
Q. What kind of money was that, cur-
rency? A. Always currency; yes, sir.
Q. Will you swear positively that you
paid to her $500 in currency on or about
the 19th of July, in the Ozark flats? A. I.
do.
Q. Was anyone present? A. I don’t think
so—I know not. It was in my flat.
Q. No one present? A. I don’t think
there was.
Q. Did you keep blank notes there? A.
No, sir.
Q. Did you take blank notes up there
with you for that purpose? A. Well, the
money I am pretty sure was there, and the
note, I know it was signed there, and I
brought it up from the office.
Q. Does that $500 note represent any-
thing of a total shortage—anything she
was short in a gambling transaction—or in
the gambling transactions? A. It had
nothing to do with gambling at all.
Did you pay her that money at that
time as any part of the proceedsof gam-
bling 2 A. No, sir.
Q. You swear to that? A. Yes, sir. †
Q. How do you fix it on the 19th of July
as the time you closed up the gambling
transaction 2 A. Because I would not have
loaned her any money, or given her any
money to keep for me if I thought she
was still gambling.
Q. Oh, that is it? A. Yes, sir.
You had got lots of her money be-
fore that time for gambling 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. But you would not loan her and mon-
ey if you thought she was gambling? A.
Not with anybody else.
The Court—I did not understand that this
was a loan 2
The Witness—Yes, sir; it was a loan.
... Well, explain; was it a straight loan
of $500? A. Yes, sir.
Q. For what purpose, do you know—do
you know what lead to it? A. Well, those
three notes were more– -
Q. Well, I am speaking of the $500 note
now. A. Well, of the $500 note—no; I can
honestly say that I don’t think she asked
me for that money.
Q. How came you to give it to her? A.
Well, that note, she did ask me for that
money.
Q. Did she say what she wanted it for?
A. Well, she was then raising a thousand
dollars somewhere withing that time.
Q. Did you know what for? A. I do
not know. But I have an idea that it was
something about a loan for Jones & Sons.
Q. She had money out at that time, didn't
she? A. I suppose so.
Q. The Hamil security was in force at
that time? A. I suppose so, yes, in fact
I know it was, because when I looked it
up I found it was.
Q. Then, that was a straight loan of $500,
was it? A. Yes, sir. It was on demand:
no particular time; I was to get it when-
ever I wanted it.



















OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
341
-
Q. Well, you had money to loan at that
time without interest? A. No, sir, not to
anºbody else.
You and Miss Ging were then lovers,
were you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, how about the next $1,000 note?
A. What was the date of that?
Q. Well, do you remember the circum-
stances of that—can you remember any-
thing about the loan of the thousand dol-
lars? A. Oh, yes—why, I have loaned her
money besides those notes.
Q. Well, can you remember
2.
anything
about the loan of that thousand dollars in
September? A. That money was given to
her very early in September, I am sure of
that.
Q. Well, what were the circumstances
of that loan'? A. I can tell you exactly
about that. I know I had a lot of money,
and I had just got a fresh lot from Mr.
Stewart, and thinks it will be a good idea.
to hedge a part of this money; I thought to
myself supposing I get out and get to gam-
bling and get broke, that will be clean
profit.
Q. Well, who suggested that loan, do you
remember whether it was you or her? A.
I think I did, that loan. I gave her some
money, I know, in Barge's restaurant for
that, that was after that; well, let's see,
where was that? I am certain that money
was paid her in my office.
Q. Are you pretty sure it was? A. It is
pretty hard to swear to anything so far:
back as that.
Q. Well, will you swear it was paid at
the time the note was given 2 A.
those notes—I would rather think
money was paid before.
Q. Well, as a matter of fact, is that loan
a matter of a thousand dollars, of such
trifling importance that you cannot remem-
ber the circumstances of making the loan,
when andw here it was, and when the note
was made and signed? A. Positively I
cannot. When I was gambling I looked at
a thonsand dollars, looked at it and han-
dled it as though it was a $10 bill.
Q. Well, has this business transaction,
the loaning of $1,000 to her, gone entirely
out of your mind so you cannot explain to
this jury when and where it occurred, or
the circumstances of it? A. Well, I have re-
ceived money of her and given her money
so many different places and times that I
cannot locate the place at all. I have given
her money at all places—at the postoffice,
up in the office, up at the Ozark Flats, in
Barge's restaurant, and it is entirely im-
possible for me to name the place at this
time.
Q. Do you mean to say from time to
time you let her have sums of money and
finally at the end of the whole transaction,
took a note from her for the entire sum 2
A. Yes, sir, something after that style.
Q. Have you a memorandum of the sums
of money you have let her have? A: No,
sir.
Q. Did not you keep any track of it? A.
No, never; I never kept any account of it
whatever.
Q. How often would you give her those
sums? A. Well, supposing I had been down
gambling, and I should come down—it is
according to the way I felt—now, thinks
I, I wonder if I am going to lose tonight
—according to the way I felt; if I thought
No,
the
I was going to lose, I would probably take
out $500 and I would say, “Here, Kate, you
keep this for me, will you?” And she would
say, “Yes, I will.” And she would take it
and keep it.
Q. Well, did you keep any track of
those sums you let her have? A. No, sir,
I could remember them without any mem-
orandum.
Q. Well, in what amounts would you
give her these sums, two and three or five
hundred dollars at a time? A. No, I think
that amount was given her at one time.
Q. Well, between July 13 and Sept. 3, the
dates of those two notes, did you let her
have money in different installments, that
is, in different payments? A. I did, but I
think I got it back—that is what makes me
think that was paid in one amount. I let
her have the money about July 19, on that
note. I think about the 1st of August she
came to me and told me she wanted some
money for some purpose or other, that her
loan she could not just get it, and she
wanted to pay some bills at Hale's. I
know I didn’t let her have as much as she
wanted, and she was going to write to her
sister out in New York, she told me, for
some money, or rather she did write, I
don’t know that she told me me she was
going to write, but she did write and she
got some money—I know she did, in fact,
I went to the express office with her and
identified her. You will find that down
there if you look the matter up.
Q. Now, Sept. 3, you are positive that
that note was made in the Oneida block
and the money paid there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember whether anybody
else was in the office? A. I don’t remem-
ber. I am pretty sure my brother or father
was not in there—there might have been
some strangers in there, I don’t know.
Q. Well, is there any circumstance in
your mind so you can fix it positively that
it was 2 A. I cannot; but I know she was
up there a number of times.
Q. You know it was paid over at the
time she made the note? A. Well, I think
it was, because the note is dated Sept. 3,
isn’t it?
Q. Yes, sir. A. Well, I think I got the
money from Mr. Stewart right there, Sept.
1 or the 2d.
Q. You kept no bank account? A. Well,
no, you might say no; I did not really.
Q. You have no books or memoranda.
from which you can find out where this
occurred, or who was present, or when the
note was actually made, can you? A. I
never had any account of it; I never kept
and books.
Q. Well, coming to the next loan, when
was that, and how much was it? A. I
know that was in the office.
Q. The next loan 2 A. No-Yes, sir. Be-
cause, I will tell you, I always gave her as
much as I could in small bills, and I al-
ways tried to get her to take them; and I
know I got that money from the City
Bank, $100 bills, and I always hung onto
them as long as I could, and I gave her
the small bills. I know I never gave her
any of the $100 bills I got at the bank.
Q. When was the next loan after that?
A. Well, I don’t believe I let her have any
money after that at all, between Sept. 3
and around there, just before I went to




342 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Chicago; and I know that that note, that
was tringing along a little while, and I
got the note before I went to Chicago.
Q. You got the note Nov. 3? A. Is that
the date of it?
Q. Yes, Nov. 3. A. Well, that is the
identical day, and that note was also made
in the office.
Q. Was anybody present then? A. No,
there was not. That money was paid in
Barge's restaurant, I should say—well, I
would guess that 10 days before that that
the money was paid, and then—I was
thinking of getting the note before that,
and I was going to Chicago, and I asked
her to come down and give me the note
and she did so; and I remember she was
kind of sick then, because she had been
away, and that I know she went up to the
office, and we went down to Barge's res-
taurant and I went up to the Syndicate
with her, and I know I left my valise in
the elevator at the Syndicate block while I
was there; I took it over there and I went
from there to the train.
Q. Do you know what special investment
she was making at that time, when she
wanted this $1,000? A. I was under the in-
pression the loan was being made on
some kind of a call loan; she told me early
in the spring she had money with that
lumber firm.
Q. It was not for goods, it was not for
anything that went into her business, as
you understood it? A. No, sir.
Q. Was that her suggestion or yours? A.
I think these three notes were suggestions
of my own.
Q. Then you understood she did not need
the money? A. At that time I did not think
she needed it.
Q. Do you think she needed money on
Nov. 3? A. No, I don’t think she did.
Q. You have seen these exhibits in court,
showing that on Nov. 27 and 28 she got
from Jones & Sons some $700? A. $985,
wasn’t it?
Q. I believe it was. And also on the 3d
day of November she drew out of the
Farmers’ and Mechanics' Bank $249? A. I
don’t know that it was on the same day.
Q. It was on the 3d of November she drew
it out? A. Well, may be.
Q. You know that? A. Not until I saw
this paper, I did not.
Q. You did not know for what purpose
she was using her money? A. No, sir.
Q. Isn’t it a fact that was the money
you went to Chicago to gamble with? A.
No, sir; it is not.
Q. You swear to that positively? A.
Yes, sir; I believe that money of mine and
hers was with Jones & Co., until a few
days before this thing happened.
Q. You say you believe your money was
with Jones & Co., what you loaned to her?
A. Yes, sir; I did, as a deposit.
Q. Why didn't you step in and find out?
A. Because I didn’t think it was any of my
business looking into her affairs.
Q. Well, that would be your affairs,
wouldn’t it, money that you loaned her?
A. No, sir; I loaned it to her; she would
not have kept track of it in my name; they
didn’t know anything about me.
Q. These notes are all in your hand-
writing? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they were in a book originally?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you get them out? A. I cut
them out with a pair of shears or a knife,
or something; I don’t know.
Q. Have you the book from which these
are taken? A. Yes, sir; it is down in the
office.
Q. I would like to have it in court here.
A. Well, it is down there in the office;
there are about 30 or 40 of them left yet.
The book has been down there for years.
Q. How many of these notes did you
draw on the 24th of November? A. Just
One.
Q. Very positive about that? A. Very
positive, unless I made a slip in writing it
and the pen went though the paper and
spoiled it.
Q. Well, that would not cut any figure.
I mean only one of these notes? A. Well,
only one was executed on that day.
Q. Well, one was executed at the Ozark
and one previously at the Oneida. ? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you know where the Nov. 3 note
was executed? A. Well, there is one that
I will syear to; that was executed in the
Oneida block, because I can trace that one
right up.
Q. Wall, in your office? A. Yes, sir;
and I can swear positively that the money
was paid on that one.
Q. Where did you keep these three notes
up to Nov. 21, the first three notes? A.
In the safe.
Q. In any private box of your own? A.
No. There is a private box there, but it
is not locked.
Q. Do you know whether any one in the
office had ever seen them up to that time?
A. My brother had seen them.
Q. Any one else? A. No,
never seen them.
Q. Do you know when your brother saw
it? A. Well, I don’t remember distinctly
of showing them right out to him, but I
know that he saw them, because I told him
about them—because I told him about my
affairs.
Q. Now, is it not a fact that these three
notes—at least three of them, if not the
four of them—were all written on the 24th
day of November? A. No, sir, it is not a
fact.
Q. You say that you did not ride out
with Miss Ging either on Tuesday evening
father had
or Saturday evening? A. That is what I
said; yes, sir.
Q. That is the week preceding the mur-
der? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long prior to that time had you
ridden out with her? A. I don’t remem-
ber; I don’t think probably since some nice
day before that, a month or two.
Q. Do you remember where you gen-
erally rode? A: I have been driving with
her so many times—I have ridden every
place in the country with her, you may
Say.
Q. Had you ever, prior to Dec. 3, ridden
with her on First avenue north in the vi-
cinity of Fifth and Sixth streets? A. I.
don’t believe I ever was down there with
her.
Q. Will you swear you never was: A.
Well, unless you call up something that
would refresh my recollection—Miss Vedder
used to work down there, and I remembr
of driving down there with her.
The Court—You had better fix some time.







OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 343
Q. Well, we will say during the last half
of the month of November up to the 3d
day of December—I will ask you if you
ever met her there in the vicinity of First
avenue north and Fifth street, either walk-
ing or riding in a buggy? A. Met her there
—no, I never did.
Q. You never met her there? A. You
asked me if I had met her; you did not ask
me if I had drove by there with her.
Q. Well, have you driven by there with
her? A. Well, since you have put it since
the middle of November, I don’t remember
—I don’t think I did, though.
Q. Didn't you within that time, quite a
number of times ride with her on First
avenue north in the vicinity of Fifth street
to Sixth street? A. Never.
Q. Did you not on the week preceding
the murder ride with her in that vicinity?
A. No, sir.
Q. Quite positive of that? A. Very cer-
tain. The week preceding the murder, not
only swear to that, but I will swear—I
don’t believe I was out driving that week
preceding the murder at all.
Q. Do you known anybody in the vicinity
of the corner of Fifth street and First
avenue north? A. Not unless they are
called to my mind.
Q. Do you know an old gentleman there,
a cigar dealer? A. What is his name?
Q. I don’t recall it. A. Has he got a
cigar stand or a house or something?
Q. He is in a cigar business there. A.
Oh, I don’t know him.
Q. Did you ever meet Miss Ging there?
A. Never.
Q. Nor in that vicinity? A. Never.
Q: Who was with you in Lally's when
you got the whisky? A. Gene Woodward,
of Anoka. -
Q. Now, you got that to give to Miss
Ging, to make her disclose where that
money was, you said? A. Well, I suppose
that was the idea.
Q. And that is what you meant when
you made the sign to Waterman, by hold-
ing up your hands, 10 o’clock, was it? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you going to meet her?
A. Meet who, Miss Ging?
Q. Yes, sir. A. I expected to find her
home when I got up there that night.
Q. And you were going to get her full
and make her disclose where the money
was? A. Well, I don’t know as I was
going to get her full, no.
Q. Well, you say you were bound to
find out, by fair means or foul means,
where the money was? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Well, you told us that Waterman had
pacified you? A. Well, he did for the time
being, but it was after that.
Q. That don’t make any difference. It
was at that time you made a motion to
him to meet you at 10? A. Yes, sir. Might
be she would not have gone, possibly, but
I had that in mind anyway, I had no en-
Sagement with her.
Q: Did you put anything in the whisky?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. You didn’t give Waterman any of it,
did you? A. I don't remember of it. I had
it in my pocket that afternoon—I don't be.
lieve I did. It was only a half pint, any-
Way, and I did not intend to give much of
it away.
Q: Did you intend to have waterman
present when you got her full? A. Well,
if Waterman had come around I probably
would have gone up. Well, I had some talk
with Miss Ging before that; that is what
I intended to talk about when I went up
there at 7 o'clock or 7:30, and probably we
would have got another young lady and
the four of us would have gone down town
as we had before.
Q. You never talked over your business
matters in the presence of other people
with her? A. No, I would not.
Q. You visited her until late Saturday
night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You was in her room quite late Satur-
day night? A. Yes, sir—let me see, about
Sunday night—
You said Sunday night? A. Well, this
has been so long ago that I don’t remem-
ber now. But I feel certain that I was
there Sunday night.
Q. You had arranged Monday morning
for Waterman to see her and find out
whether everything was all right or not?
A. I tried to arrange with him on Sunday.
Q. Well, you bought the whisky on that
morning to give her to drink to find out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in the afternoon Waterman re-
turned and reported to you that every-
thing was satisfactory? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that made you easy, you felt sat-
isfied in your mind? A. Yes, sir. But
Waterman didn’t know everything.
Q. I know, but I am speaking now as to
your being easy in your mind. A. Easier;
yes, sir.
Q. And you reminded him when you were
in to supper to meet you at 10 o’clock to
go with you and find out, make her disclose
the whereabouts of this money? A. Yes,
sir. Why, probably if I had went to her
that day and asked her for the money she
would have probably paid me.
Q: Are you in the habit of getting peo-
ple full when you want to get some informa-
tion out of them? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you purposely get Waterman full
that afternoon? A. No, sir. I did not get
him full, anyway.
Q. Well, he drank a good many drinks
that afternoon? A. Quite a number.
Q. Drank at your expense? A. Yes, he -
usually drank at my expense.
Q. Well, did he on that day? A. I think
SO.
Q. Now, that afternoon in your rambles
with Waterman, Waterman and this girl,
You say, Went, at one stage in the pro-
ceedings, late in the afternoon to Elliot's
jewelry store? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go into the jewelry store? A.
I did not go in there at all.
Q. Did you say to them you wanted to
go over to the Syndicate Block? A. I don't
know; I don’t think I did.
Will you swear you did not? A. Well,
I don’t know. If I said it to them. I know.
what I said it to them for—I wanted to get
away from them.
Q. Well, where did you want to go? A.
I did not want to go to any place in par-
ticular.
Q. As a matter of fact where did you go?
A. As a matter of fact I went up and
stood at that drug store at the corner
of Sixth and Nicollet.
Q. Do you remember, as a matter of
fact, whether you did say to them that you
wanted to go up to the Syndicate Block?





344
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
A. Up to the Syndicate?—I don't know—I
might have said that.
Q. Well, if you went up there what did
you go up for? A. Well, if I went up
there I went up there to see Miss Ging,
that is what I generally went up there for.
Q. Well, did you go up on Monday after-
noon? A. I do not know, I don’t think I
did—I know I didn’t.
Q. Are you sure you did not? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Eustis that you told
these people that you wanted to go to the
Syndicate Block, and you would meet them
between Fifth and Sixth 2 A. Well, I
don’t know what I wanted to do.
Q. Well, if you told them you wanted
to go you must have went? A. No, not
necessarily.
Q. You done it to put them off? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. You say you got home on the night of
the 3d of December at a quarter past 7, to
the Ozark Flats? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I understand you were there and
in the boarding house, one of the two
places, until a quarter of 8, about? A.
Well, just about, yes, sir.
Q. Tell us again what you were doing
that time? A. Well, I went in—I left
Fisher and Waterman there at the Thir-
teenth street entrance and the Hennepin
entrance and I–well, I don’t remember
which it was, but I think I left them at
the Hennepin entrance, and I might have
gone around to the Thirteenth street en-
trance; sometimes I go one way and some-
times another. I think it was the Henne-
pin entrance, though. I went in there, and
the basement trip—I don’t remember that
trip, but I put that in because they have
all testified to that, and that is such a trip
that I could not remember anyway. I went
to the basement and came back and went
into my flat and washed and changed my
clothing complete. I came back into the
hall, and there is when I saw Blixt—that
is when he spoke something to me about
the sewing machine. Then I went into the
elevator and up to Miss Ireland's room-
that trip is very indefinite in my mind, but
I think I went up there. But at that time,
at that trip Miss Ging was not at home, but
I was not surprised at that fact because it
was very early in the evening and it was
hardly time for her to be home yet. And I
got on the elevator and came down in the
basement and Mrs. Blixt was standing
down by her door somewheres, and I said,
“Where is the boss?” And she said,
“Didn't you see him?” I said, “Yes, and
he spoke about a sewing machine.” And I
asked her what it was, and she told me all
the particulars and I told her to go ahead
and put it in there; and I went out that
back door and went into the boarding
house, ate my supper, held up my hands
and so on to Waterman, and came out and
went—well, that is not positive in my mind
whether I went through the basement or
the Triteenth street entrance; but it is
positive in my mind about playing with my
dog; if he was on the sidewalk I did not go
into the basement. I am positive about
that on account of the circumstances and
getting my hands dirty. If I went out of
the Thirteenth street entrance, why, I took
the elevator; but if I went the other way I
did not take the elevator. Anyway, I went
up to my mother's flat on the fourth floor
and went into the flat and talked with the
folks and so on; father was there on the
lounge and mother was there—
Mr. Erwin. You always say my flat. Do
you mean you went into your flat, or was
it your flat or your mother's flat you went
into there? A. My mother's flat.
Q. Go on. A. Well, 1 explained to her
I was going up to have Miss Ging come
down a little while, but whether I told her
for certain or not, I don’t know, but I told
her Ithought she would come down. And
I went up and went to the fifth floor, walk-
ed up stairs and had a little talk with Miss
Ireland and asked her where Miss Ging
. and so on—this is Monday night, is it
In O.
Yes, I understand so, and you ought
to, too. A. Well, I understand so. -
Q. Yes, this is Monday night? A. Well,
I had a talk with Miss Ireland, and so On,
something in regard to Miss Ging. She
said Miss Ging was not there and she did
not know when she would come back, and
so on. Well, then, I came back and went
#º to the fourth floor, went into my
at—
Mr. Erwin. There is the same thing
again. Do you mean you went into your
flat or your mother's flat? A. My mother's
flat. I went in there and I explained to
her that Miss Ging would not be down,
and so on; and then I went into the bath
room and washed my hands thoroughly.
Q. Well, that is the bath room in your
flat? A. On the fourth floor. Well, call it
B fourth. I came down there and I went
into the bath room and washed my hands
and while I was in there I was thinking
about the bottle of whisky–
No, I am not speaking about that, I
asked you how you put in your time and
where you went to? A. Well, I came out
there then, after leaving the bottle of
whisky there—whether I explained that I
went into the bath room before or after
I had been up in Miss Ging's room the
first time, I don’t remember, but I think I
have.
Q. Well, go on. A. I came out of the
bath room and I went down stairs to B
third, on the third floor, and I rang the
bell ºthere for my brother, and after ring-
ing a little—I did not think he had moved
down, he had lived there until a few
days before that and then he moved down
below to the ground floor. Well, then I
went to the ground floor—let me see–yes,
I went down to the ground floor and rang
the bell for my brother and he came out.
and there is the time he paid me the
money.
Q. Did you want money for any special
purpose at that time A. No special pur-
pose, only I had been dunning him every
time I saw him.
Q. Did you want money at that time-
did you call on him for the money that
time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What particularly suggested it to your
mind, if you did not have any need of it?
A. Well, collecting, you know.
Q. You saw him in the office during bus-
nesshours? A. Yes, and I dunned him in
the office, too—I dunned him every time I
saw him.


























OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
345
didn't you? A. I.
Q. He didn't refuse to pay it? A. Well,
he gave it to me in a discouraging way.
Q. Any quarrel about it? A. No, there
was no distinct quarrel, but he paid it.
Q. Well, that is all you went there for,
that $5? A. All; yes, sir.
Q. Let's see, did he give you any in the
afternoon when you called at the Oneida–
my recollection is you testified he did? A.
Well, I was there, and I don’t know; he
paid me four or five times before this.
Q. Well, that afternoon about 4 o'clock,
didn't he pay you money? A. Well, I don't
know; my impression is he did. I think
the chances are he did. Yes, remember a
little conversation I had with him that he
did pay me a little money at the Oneida. I
cannot remember the amount.
Q. Well, now, from the time you got the
$5 of Adry in the block at his door, then
where did you go? A. I went out and
down the street. His door is right at the
outside of the Thirteenth street entrance—
I should say I went out there, but maybe
I didn’t. I know I was in a puzzle what to
do then. I went out Hennepin as far as
Laurel. (Witness indicated on the map the
course he took from the Ozark to the res-
idence of Mr. Bartleson.) There are the
Ozark flats. If I came out of the Thirteenth
street door, I came out here. (Indicating.)
If I came out the Hennepin door I came
out here. (Indicating.) I went down Hen-
nepin avenue, very certain, on this side
of the street—on this side of Hennepin. I
went down there—it is necessary for me to
state what was in my mind or I cannot
state where I went.
Q. I don’t care, you may give your men-
tal operations. A. All right. I know when
I started out here I intended to go right
down in here. (Indicating.)
Q. When you left the Ozark, you start-
ed in what direction, intending to go to
Loring park? A. Yes, sir, when I first
started from the Ozark, I thought I would
walk to the Syndicate, and then I thought
I would walk out here.
Q. Did you go to the Syndicate first? A.
No, I don’t remember whether I did or
not—whether I stood with my hands in my
pockets thinking where to go or not.
Q. And you don’t remember whether you
went out of the Hennepin entrance or the
Thirteenth street entrance? A. No, sir; I
do not. I went down Hennepin avenue un-
til I got to Laurel avenue. That is one
block from the Ozark toward Loring park.
Well, then I either went there or I went
to this street and turned up there, so I
don’t know whether I went through there
or through there.
Q. Can you fix that in your mind in any
way? A. It is utterly impossible. I have
tried to locate it at the inquisition.
Q. Then you do think that you went
down to Fifteeneth street if you turned
there? A. Why, I think it possible and
not improbable. And on that corner I look-
ed at my watch and it was 13 or 14 minutes
of 8.
Q. That is the corner of Laurel and Fif-
teenth street? A. Yes. And that is where
I made up my mind to go to the theater.
And I went up to this corner, to those new
flats here. (Indicating.)
Q. Is that the first time you thought
about the theater? A. I think it is
the very first time that I made up
my mind to go to the theater.
Then I went on here to Hawthorne–contin-
ued up Fifteenth street to Hawthorne,
down Hawthorne to this park.
Q. Now, that is on the route to what
street? A. To Thirteenth street.
Q. What little park is that? A. Haw-
thorne park. There are paths all through
there. Now, whether I went through the
path there or went around the corner, I
don’t know. But I continued on Hawthorne
to Twelfth, but I don’t know whether I
crossed the park or not, but I went dawn
Hawthorne to Twelfth, and I crossed
Twelfth street to Mr. Bartleson's house,
on the corner of Twelfth and Chestnut.
Q. You remember seeing anybody on that
trip? A. No, I do not. I was not out look-
ing for an alibi, and I would have noticed
them if I was.
Q. Yes, your theater trip made a pretty
good alibiº A. Well, no, that was not the
right time hardly.
Q. Do you remember whether or not you
saw anybody on the trip you have de-
scribed 2 A. I don’t remember; I know I
saw people.
Do you know whether you saw any-
body you recognized? A. I don’t remem-
ber now.
Q. Well, the matter was very fresh in
your mind the next day, and suspicion
pointed to you—you were making an ex-
planation all the next day to the of:
ficers? A. Yes, sir, I know that.
Q. You could tell that day whether you
met anybody on that trip you knew or
not? A. I don’t remember of any. If you
remind me of anybody I met I will remem-
ber them possibly.
Q. What were you going out in the vicin-
ity of Loring Park for—you had that in
mind at the time you left the Ozark? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Why was that? A. I think I can give
you a pretty good explanation. I would
rather give the circumstances of it with-
out giving the names. A young lady lived
down that way. She lived on the left hand
side of Hennepin, near the park.
Q. Some young lady you had in mind to
call upon when you left the Ozark? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. When did you change your mind on
that? A. Probably when I got to Fifteenth
or to Laurel, where I turned off.
Q. Did you stop there and debate the
question in your mind at all? A. Oh, I
don’t remember that, probably I did not.
Q. What made you determine, then, not
to call on the young lady, but to go to the
theater? A. Well, because it was not neces-
sary that I should go to see her. I had an
engagement there the following Friday
night, and it was not necessary to go there.
Q. Well, it was not necessary to go to the
theater? A. No, but if I had gone to call
on this young lady I would have called
on Miss Bartleson afterwards.
Q. That was the engagement for a skat-
ing trip? A. No, sir, engagement for noth-
ing.
Q. When had you met Miss Bartleson?
A. At noon, on Nicollet and Sixth street.
Q. You had made an engagement to call
on her at her residence that evening? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Any special time stated when you







346
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
would call? A. No, sir.
Q. And not for the purpose of any enter-
tainment or going out to any particular
place? A. No, sir.
Q. You had no engagement with the
other lady living in the vicinity of Loring
Park? A. No, sir; I had an engagement
with her, but not for that night.
Mr. Erwin–Let him state what that was.
Q. Well, state what the nature of that
engagement was. A. Well, I will tell you
about it. The day before there was an-
other young lady who lived down St. Paul
way whom I had seen, and she sent word
by me to this young lady for me to tell
her she was coming up on Friday, and
make the arrangement for her, to save her
writing a letter. So Sunday night, that
was the night before this, I went to her
house and told her father about the air-
rangement, so that was really enough.
But Monday night, thinking I had time
enough, I thought I would go and see the
young lady myself, and see if she had got
the message all right.
Q. I believe that is the time you say
you had time to sell? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And if you had continued down to her
residence. about the nearest way would
have been to have kept down Hennepin to
this point, Huron street? A. No, I would
either have turned there or on Fifteenth
street. It would be about the same dis-
tance anyway.
Q. But it would not have been a great
deal out of the way to go down Huron
street? A. Oh, it would have been three
blocks further to have gone by Hennepin.
Well, what made you change your
mind and say you would go to the theater
—how did it come over you all at once
that you thought you would go to the
theater? A. Well, I thought I would. Well,
sir, I should say I thought I would do it
that way—that I would enjoy myself bet-
ter to go to the theater and see the play.
Q. Well, you were nearer this young
lady at Loring Park, why didn't you go
and take her to the theater? A. Well, be-
cause I had an engagement with Miss
Bartleson and I could not have done so.
Q. It was not because you had an en-
gagement with Miss Bartleson that you
made up your mind to go to the theater?
A. Not altogether; but then I naturally
made up my mind once in a while to go to
the theater myself.
Q. Did you look at your watch when you
were over there? A. I did, over on Laurel
and Fifteenth, when I made up my mind
to go to the theater. It was 13 or 14 min-
utes to 8.
Q. How long did it take you then to go
to Mr. Bartleson’sº A. Well, I don't
know. I sauntered along. -
Q. Are you sure you sauntered along? A.
Yes, sir, I was not going very lively.
Q. Didn’t you go almost on a run there
for quite a distance? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Do you remember falling down there?
A. No, sir. If I had been on a run I would
have remembered it.
Q. You generally fall down when you
run, don’t you? A. No. I usually pay par-
ticular attention when I run.
Q. And you say you never run on any
particular part of the route you have de-
scribed? A. No, sir.
Q. You are positive of that? A. Very
positive, yes, sir.
Q. I understand you to say that you
walked all the way, and walked very leis-
urely? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are positive about that? A. Yes,
sir. I might, after I looked at my watch—
I don’t remember anything about it, but
judging from the time it took me to go
there, after I looked at my watch, I might
have increased my gait a little; I got over
there at about four minutes of 8, that would
be about eight minutes. Now, how far is
that?
Q. You can see. A. One, two, three,
four, five blocks, well, that would be an
ordinary pace.
Q. Well, are you sure that you was not
down Hennepin avenue as low as Huron
avenue on that evening? A. Certainly I
a-In.
Q. Are you sure you was not in this vi-
cinity, going in this vicinity pretty rapidly?
A. Very sure.
Q. At any time that evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Between 7 and 8? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At about 20 minutes past 7, do you re-
member anything about that? A. I don't
remember; in fact, I know I was not there.
Q. Do you remember whether along this
route on Hennepin you met anybody you
knew? A. As I say, I don’t remember, Mr.
Nye, I was not looking for an alibi; I don't
remember.
Q. Did you not, about 20 minutes past 7,
strike this sidewalk at the time a street
car was passing up this way, and you were
on the run, and did not the street car slack
up for you, and you seeing it, thinking it
Wanted to slack for you, and you kept on
your way up and towards the Ozark? A. I.
was at No. 6 Thirteenth street south at
that time eating supper. -
Q. Well, at any time? A. No, at no time;
I was not down there under those circum-
stances.
Q. You was not down there that far at
all? A. No, sir.
Q. And did you not meet a man up here
whom you knew? A. Where are you?
Q. Anywhere between the point I men-
tioned here and the Ozark flats on Hen-
nepin. A. Well, let me see. I was on Hen-
nepin avenue from the Ozark flats to Fif-
teenth street. If I met anybody there I
don’t remember.
Q. Well, maybe you were there later—
there from 20 to 25 minutes past 7, did you
meet anybody there? A. No, sir.
Q. You are sure of that? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–If the court please, I wish you
would caution all witnesses for the de-
fense to remain in attendance in court. I
have just learned that one of our witnesses
has been down in Missouri and fortunately
has returned. Now, I desire the court to
caution them to remain here in attendance.
The Court—Yes, all witnesses will re-
main in attendance until the trial is fin-
ished.
(The court here took a recess until 10
o'clock a. m., Feb. 26, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB. 26.
Mr. Hall–Your honor, Mr. Nye is unable
to be here today. He is attending the
funeral of his grandmother, and sickness
in his family preventing the other members
of his family from attending, he felt it his
duty to do so himself. We will continue
with the examination of Mr. Hayward, I



















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
347
will say that the duty of continuing the
cross-examination devolving upon me with-
out any notice this morning, I do not know
that I shall be prepared to finish it. But
we will progress as far as possible, and if
it is desired to recall him for further
cross-examination, I suppose we can do so.
Mr. Erwin–Under the circumstances,
would it not be well to wait until tomorrow
morning?
The Court–Not unless the state desires
it.
Mr. Hall–We do not desire it.
Harry T. Hayward
Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Hall.
Q. Returning to the matter of the prom-
issory notes. In July, '94, you were quite
intimate with Miss Ging; in fact, as you
have stated, you were a lover. Were you
not also acquainted with her financial af-
fairs intimately? A. I never was, only
what she told me.
Q. Didn't she frankly tell you all her
financial affairs and financial condition? A.
No, sir; she did not.
Q. What was it then that inspired you
with such confidence in her business sagac-
ity, if she never told you anything about
her business affairs? A. She did tell me
some.
Q. Didn't she tell you intimately what
resources she had 2 What business plans
she intended? A. She did.
Q. What she was doing with her money?
A. No, not altogether what she was doing
with her money.
Q. She told you she had her money loan-
ed with Jones & Sons? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You know that is true, don’t you?
A. No, I don’t think now it was true.
Q. What is it that leads you to think
it was not true, that she did not have her
money with Jones?
Mr. Erwin–I hope no arguments will be
carried on with the Witness.
The Witness—It shows up now there is
none with them.
Mr. Hall—When in July, '94, she asked
you for $500, did not you make any in-
quiry as to what she wanted that for?
A. Slightly, yes. -
Q: Why did you only make slight in-
quiry? A. Well, because I thought that
she knew more about her business than I
did; and that it was none of my business
what she did with it.
Q. It was some of your business to get
security or some assurance of the return
of $1,500? A. I got no security whatever.
Q. You mean to say that you don’t know
anything at all about what she intended
to do with that $500, and you gave it in
absolute ignorance? A. I do not. I said
that she told me at that time she was
raising $1,000; that time or close to it;
either before or after.
Q. Did she say she was raising it for
the purpose of a loan? A. That is the im-
pression I have now, yes, sir.
Q. Was there anything said to give you
that impression, that she was raising that
for the purpose of a loan? A: I don’t re-
member the words, but I am positive there
Was.
Q: Did she indicate to you that she was
going to loan it? A. As I say, to Jones
& Sons
Q. Now, don't you know that at that very
time you were making inquiries to try to
cash for her the loan that she had with
Jones & Sons? A. I think it is pretty close
to that time, yes, sir.
Q. Didn't it strike you as peculiar that
she would be wanting to discount one
loan for the purpose of making another at
the same place? A. Well, I think it was
after that time, July 19, that she was
talking about discounting that mortgage.
Q. Wasn’t it about the 19th of July that
you went to Hamel and tried to get the
lcan paid up? A. I think it was just after
that, pretty close. I think it was close in
there.
Q. Wasn't it at that time that you had
been to Pottle to get Pottle to cash the
loan 2 A. Pretty close in there.
Q. And the Title Insurance Company to
cash the loan 2 A. I don’t remember that.
Q. She had interested you enough in her
business for you to try and cash that loan
for her, hadn't she? A. No.
Q. She told you that much of her inten-
tion? A. Of her intentions—I did not have
her notes.
Q. You say in connection with your seek-
ing cash for a loan for her for the purpose
of making another loan, you let her have
$500? A. I did. I don’t know whether it
was a loan, but something. I know I had
the impression that it was going to Jones
& Sons.
Q. Can you give to this court and jury
any other explanation of your loaning her
$800 under such circumstances? A. I loaned
her more money just after that.
Q. I am speaking of that $500 just now.
A. This other is pretty close to it; it was
not enough at the time. She could not get
that loan again, I know.
Q. That was not left with her as a repos-
itory; that was a straight out and out
loan 2 A. That one she asked me for, but
the other she did not; but they went just
about the same way.
Q. If she borrowed that for the purpose
of loaning again, why did you make the
notes payable on demand? A. Well, I did
not understand that there was going to be
any time loan, loaned out for years, or any-
thing of that kind. That was to be paid
back to me when I wanted it. I was un-
der the impression that she was in a posi-
tion where possibly by some discount,
small discount, something of that kind, she
could put her hands on that amount of
money any time.
Q. Did she tell you about any loan, and
the rate of interest she was going to get
for a short time loan 2 A. I think not.
Q. Did you know any other person to
whom she was lending money without se-
curity? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To whom? A. Well, I can tell you,
and I would rather not give them right out.
They may be friends of yours.
Q. This is a serious matter; I think you
can tell whatever you know? A. Why
can't you just take this and find out. I do
not see any use of hallooing names out
here.
Q. Did you know other people to whom
she was loaning money? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there other people to whom she
was loaning money to gamble with ? A.
Not that I know of.
Q. Was there anything said about loan-
ing money to this particular person? A.
At that time I don’t know as there was; I
don’t think I knew at that time. I don’t




348
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
think I knew about her loaning money at
that time to anybody. The fact is, I am
quite positive I did not know it.
Q. So far as you know, you are the only
person that evr got any money from her to
gamble with 2 A. As far as I know.
Q. Now, you knew that Miss Ging was
generally a careful, prudent business wom-
an, and that she did not carry sums of
money about with her, but had a bank ac-
count? A. It was not her custom to carry
money with her.
Q. She had a bank account, had two
bank accounts, in fact; you knew that? A.
I knew she had money deposited in the
First National Bank in the spring.
Q. You knew that later in the spring;
you knew that along in the summer? A.
I had no definite, certain knowledge of it.
Q. You cashed a check in August, drawn
on the First National Bank by Catherine
Ging? A. I don’t think I ever did.
Q. The check you left with Frank
Tucker? A. I don’t think that was in Au-
gust.
Q. Tucker says it was August. A. I
would rather see the check before I Would
believe it. It is possible he might be mis-
taken.
Q. He says it was August; it was some-
thing near that time. You did know along
in the summer that she had a bank ac-
count? A. If that check is shown to me,
and it is on the First National Bank, and
my indorsement is on it, why, I certainly
believe now that I knew it at that time.
Q. You knew she had another bank ac-
count with the Farmers and Mechanics’
Savings Bank? A. I knew she had told me
SO.
Q. Did she ever say anything about de-
positing these sums in that bank in safety
deposit vaults? A. Do you refer to the
three notes?
Q. This $500 and $1,000 subsequent, $1,000
in November? A. She never said anything
about depositing this in safety deposit
vaults. In fact, I did not know that she
did in the banks. It is my impression that
her money, the bulk of it, was with Jones
& Sons up to about the 28th or 29th of No-
vember.
Q. When you loaned her the $1,000 Sept.
3, was there any further explanation of
what she was going to do with it, or what
she wanted it for? A. No, I don’t think
that. I don’t think she asked me—that
money.
Q. That was a deposit, then,
made by you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then, if you made it in that shape, it
was to be returned on demand, just as you
made the note? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You made that note the same as the
$500—wasn’t the $500 in the same shape? A.
It amounted to the same thing, but there
was a little difference; on the $500 she
wanted that only.
Q. As a matter of fact, was not you
gambling between July and September? A.
I was, I think; yes, sir.
Q. Didn't you ever have occasion between
July and November for a part of this
money for gambling stakes? A. No, sir.
Q. The money given in November you
say was given about the same as the money
ey in September? A. Just about the same
way.
Q. Up to Nov. 2 you say that you had
never gotten back from her any part of
that was
these two previous sums you had given
her, the $500 and the $1,000?.A. No, sir.
Q. From the time that you deposited
those sums with her, they remained in
her possession? A: I don’t know about that.
Q. So far as you know, you had never
got them back? A. That is right.
Q. Had you ever asked what she had
done with the money, where she put it? A.
I think I did. As I say, I got the impres-
sion that the money was with Jones &
Sons. I cannot recall her words.
Q. You thought she was going to make
a short time loan with it? A. I don’t know
about that short time loan. Those loans
there was not so much talk about it. I
gave that to her to keep for me, and if I
afterwards found out that the money was
deposited in the First National Bank or
the Farmers' and Mechanics Bank, as you
say, I don’t think I would have noticed it.
I don’t remember positively any talk to
annount to anything that the money was
with Jones & Sons.
Q. Had you ever been to Jones & Sons
to make any inquiry at all about Miss
Ging's loan, or about her financial af-
fairs? A. I had. At the time I drove out
to the Hannel mill; at the time I tried to
get the mortgage cashed at hese different
places and different people. That is the
time that I was at Jones & Sons' office.
Q. Did Miss Ging inform you when she
got the insurance money? A. She did not.
I knew that she got it. I met Mr. Davis on
the street on day. That calls for a little
explanation.
Q. Go on and explain. A. Well, when I
was in Jones & Sons' office there was
some talk about the insurance, said of
those people said they would not cash it
without the property was insured, and it
was not insured at that time. Well, they
went on and insured it, or I think it was
insured at that time, but something was
wrong with the insurance. Any way, they
went on and insured it, and it was not a
great while after that when one day Miss
Ging told me, I think, that she had re-
ceived a letter from Jones & Sons telling
her that the mill had burned down. A few
days after that I met Mr. Davis, of the
firm of Jones & Sons.
Q. Did you ever go to Hamel after the
first ime that yau went out? A: I was out
there twice, the second time a few days
after the fire.
Q. Wasn't it he very day after the fire?
A. It was not. -
Q. Are you positive about that? A.
Very positive.
Q. Where did you get the first informa-
tion about the fire?A. Miss Ging gave it
to me.
Do you remember the day that that
mill burned?A. No, sir; I do not; I don't
know the day.
Q. Where did you get the livery rig that
you went out with the second time? A.
Goosman's.
Q. A single horse or a team? A. A.
team.
Q. You will swear that was the second
day after the fire? A: I will swear it was
not the first day afterwards; it might have
been, and I don't believe it was the second
day. I would say it was the third or
fourth day following the fire, at a guess.
Q. Don't you know that fire was on Mon-







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
349
day? A. I don't know it certain.
Q. Do you know anything about the day
It occurred at all, the day, Monday? A.
My impression is that Mr. Davis said it
was the 6th.
Q. Will you swear that you were not out
there Tuesday morning? A. I will.
Q. Quite early 2 A. I will swear to that.
Q. With Miss Ging? A. I will swear to
that.
Q. Now, proceed with your explanation
with Mr. Davis in regard to getting the
money on the loan 2 A. Where was I in
that explanation?
Q. You met Davis on the street? A.
Yes, sir; well I went up to him. I had the
knowledge of the fire then. Miss Ging had
told me; and I said to him, “Why,” I says,
“it is a very good thing that Miss Ging
was looking around trying to get that mort-
gage cashed, or otherwise it is barely pos-
sible that there might have been no insur-
ance on it when the fire occurred.” And
Mr. Davis made some explanation—I don’t
know—probably agreeing with me on that;
and there he told me then, I guess there
was some talk between us about the in-
surance; asked if they had got it settled
up all right; in fact the man himself Mr.
Jenson, was up to the office once, and talk-
ing something about, wanted to know
where Miss Ging was; I thinks he wanted
to talk something about the loan; some
discount or something he wanted, and I
gave him her address. Jensen is the man
that owned the mill.
Q. You knew that loan was in process
of collection from the insurance companies
after that A. I know that Davis told me
it was paid.
Q. Didn't you keep posted, through Miss
Ging or otherwise, of the progress of that
collection? A. No, sir.
Q. You knew it would be paid in about
60 days, didn't you? A. Well, fire losses
are usually paid in 60 days.
Q. And yet in September you loaned
Miss Ging $1,000 and took no security of
any kind from her? A. I did.
Q. Did you know at that time that she
would get her insurance; sure of making
a collection from the insurance company?
A. I don’t think we had any talk on the
loan whatever.
Q. Now, up to Nov. 2 did you know
whether she had collected the insurance
money up to Nov. 22
Mr. Schumaker–Nov. 3.
Mr. Hall up to the time of that third
note, Nov. 32 A. I think it was before
that time I had the talk with Mr. Davis,
and he told me that the money was paid.
Q. You knew what the amount of that
was 2 A. Yes, when I was in Jones & Son's
office I think they explained it to me.
Q. Before Jones & Sons explained it to
you, you had been hawking it in three or
four different places? A: I had not been
hawking it around until I went there to
find about it.
Q. How much was the amount of it? A.
I went in there; I am not sure about it
now I went in there, and it is my impres-
sion they said that loan was $1,500, but it
was arranged some way, two parties made
the loan, and Miss Ging only owned a part
of it, some complicated loan, I got that im-
pression.
Q. You knew she got between $1,200 and
$1,300 sometime during October? A. I did
not know it.
Q. Didn't you know how much she had
collected on that insurance? A. I did not;
I know that Mr. Davis told me the insur-
ance had been paid, so I had no reason to
doubt it.
Q. Up to Nov. 2, from July to November,
you never had occasion to go to her in or-
der to ask for the return of any of this
money that you claim to have given her?
A. I did. I loaned her some money after
this first $500 note; at the same time she
came to me and wanted some money, I
think it was about the time I pawned her
ring, and I let her have it.
Q. Didn’t that arouse the suspicion of a
sagacious business man who was lending
money that she should have $500 at one
time, $100 at another time of you, and yet
she was pawning a ring? A. I think it was
something to the effect that she had money
down there, and would have to lose some
small discount if she cashed it. She also at
that time told me it was something before
the first of the month, so I will guess it
about the 1st of August; that she had writ-
ten to her sister and got a hundred dollars
from her, received $100 from her. And right
in that time is when I loaned her this
other money. I think it was two or three
hundred dollars.
Q. Now, you are going on to explain
the sum of money that you called back be-
tween July and November; what money
was it? A. It was this money.
Q. That $300? A. Yes.
Q. That was all? A. I am pretty sure
that was all.
Q. You never had any notice of that? A.
Yes, sir; I th ink I did; I think I had
a kind of a little pencil due; I don’t think
it was a note; I think it said “due me,” or
something of that kind, a due-bill, to the
best of my recollection.
Q. Three hundred dollars as a stake
would not last you very long at gambling if
you needed it? A. It would not be much of
a stake for me if I let her have it.
Q. You called back that $300? A. Yes,
si-
Q. As a matter of fact, were you not out
of money between July and November? A.
Not that I know of.
Q. Weren't you trying to borrow on your
own chattels in July and November? A.
. Probably so, but that did not signify that
I was out of money.
Q. Who did you go to beside Gittleson to
borrow on your chattels? A. I remember
one night down town Gittleson was closed
up and I went across the street. I don’t
remember any other place.
Q. Didn't you go to Pottle and make a
chattel loan, or try to make one? A. No.
I don't think I ever did go to Pottle for a
loan outside of trying to get him to cash
that mortgage.
Q: Didn't you take a note made by Miss
Ging, and try to discount it? A. I did. I
don’t think I took the note. I told him
who the parties were. That was, I guess,
in May. It might have been in June.
Q. What was your object in trying to
discount her notes? A. She wanted to get
the money out of it.
Q. To give it to you? A. I think that
was the time; in fact, I connect that close-
ly. I think the time that that was cashed
was the time when I went to Chicago, and
she was interested with me in the gambling


350 OFFICIAL STENOG
RAPHIC REPORT
transaction. I think it is the identical
time. I won’t swear to it. The notes are
Brooks Bros.'; they probably could give
some information about it.
Q. Wasn't that more than a year and a
half ago she loaned money to Brooks Bros.”
No, sir; I don’t know when she loaned
it, but when it was cashed was either in
April, May, or June '94.
Q. You did not have to go to Pottle to
discount one of Brooks Bros.' notes? A.
Well, sir, I will tell you; she wrote them
a letter, she told me, and in some way
there was some misunderstanding in the
writing, in the answer, and she thought
they could not cash it, and she was very
anxious to get it cashed. And I did not
know Brooks Bros. myself, and so we
made some arrangement anyway, and look-
ed around to get it cashed. I went to Pot-
tle, told him about it. He looked it up; he
knew more about it than I did. He said
that he would cash it. I remember dis-
tinctly now he said he would cash it.
Q. That was the only a short time loan
that you ever definitely knew Miss Ging
had made, wasn’t it? A. Well, that and
this Jones loan was the only loan I ever
knew anything about whatever.
Q. Now, the loan to Brooks Bros. was a
very well placed loan—it was gilt edge
commercial paper? A. I believed it was
after I found out.
Q. Brooks Bros., then, discounted that
note just as quick as they found She
wanted the money? A. I think they did.
Q. So far as you ever knew of any loan
transactions made by Miss Ging to other
parties they were very conservatively and
wisely placed with good parties? A. Most
of them.
Q. Do you know of any that she ever
made that were not well secured and with
first class parties? A. I do know.
Who? A. Not any great announts.
I will put in an explanation here. Along
the latter part of November, before this
occurred, when I was quizzing her pretty
close about this money and so on, she told
me some things that she never told me be-
fore; that was about where she had loaned
money; she mentioned two names to me,
and told me there was another party that
owed her more, but never would tell me
who it was.
after your money had been given? A. I
don’t know when they were made. I never
heard of those loans until right along here
within a week, the last part of November,
after the 24th.
Q. Now, didn’t you, at a conversation
you had with Mr. Pottle, after the time
you got your money from your lot of Elder
Stewart, try to borrow from him on chat-
tels, and when he asked you where all your
money was, that you had had, something
like $8,000 or $9,000, you told him it was all
gone, that you had lost it gambling? A. I
did.
Q. Did you tell him the truth or tell him
a falsehood? A. I came pretty near telling
him the truth. Will you let me explain
that? Mr. Pottle is about a year or two
years out of date; that is, I was to Pottle
one time in 1892. Then is the time when I
told him about losing seven, eight or nine
thousand dollars; and I lost it.
Q. Did you have any more than one lot
Q. Were these loans that had been made
transaction with Elder Stewart? A. No,
sir.
Q. Wasn't it after you got the money
from Elder Stewart that you had the talk
with Pottle? A. No, sir.
. How much did you get from Elder
Stewart? A. Altogether?
Q. Yes, sir. A. Seven thousand dollars,
I think.
Q. Did you get any more than the
amount that was last turned over to you,
the balance after deducting the accrued in-
terest and mortgages on the place, some
$2,000, the amount of the check cashed by
the City Bank? A. I did not count at that:
time that I got this. It is along, I suppose,
in the last year and a half, in different
amounts. I counted the $2,000 mortgage,
$2,500 I received from another party, but
when this was paid Stewart's check was
given to the other party. So, I say I re-
ceived Stewart's money instead of the oth-
er; but to make it more exact, instead of
receiving $7,000 from Stewart I received
$4,500 from Stewart and $2,500 from these
other parties, but indirectly I received
$7,500 from Stewart and nothing from the
other parties.
Q. When you got that piece of property
from your father, what incumbrances were
on it? A. It was clear.
Q. Who did you make your first loan of?
A. Elder Stewart.
Q. How much? A. $2,000.
Q. When did you make that? A. The
latter part of July, '93.
Q. What did you do with the money?
A. Went up to the Twin City Athletic
Club and won $1,500.
Q. Didn't you lose about $2,500 along
about that time at a club on Sixth street?
A. No, I got all they had there one night
before that.
Q. When did you make the second loan
of Elder Stewart or the second loan on
this piece of property? A. I got it of the
Title Insurance Trust Company sometime
inside sixty days after that I got of
Stewart.
Q. How much was that? A. $1,000.
Q. So, you then had $3,500 incumbrance
on that place? A. $3,000.
Q. You borrowed a second sum on it,
you still had the money from Elder Stew-
art, why did you do that? A. Because I cal-
culated to get rid of the lot in one way or
other.
Q. Did you make any loan transaction
on that piece of property? A. Yes, sir, of
Mrs. Hanchen Beehler.
Q. How much did you get on that mort-
gage? A. $2,000, I think it was the 2d day
of November, '93.
Q. You wanted to convert the lot into
money, and you did it by means of another
loan 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was the only object in making
a third mortgage on the place? A. To get
the money I got on the mortgage; that was
the only object I had in putting the mort-
gage on it.
Q. Had you any other transaction con-
cerning that lot from that time until Sep-
tember, '94? A. Yes, I got another mort-
gage on it, fourth mortgage, of Mrs. Han-
chen Beehler. She is a monied woman,
loans money around the city here. I think
she lives at Excelsior now, the last time I
knew anything about her.
Q. So the total amount of the incum-







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
351
brance on the whole piece after the Beeh-
ler loan, was how much? A. After the
Beehler second loanº
Q. Yes, sir. A $4,500. Then I sold it to
Elder Stewart in September, '94.
Q. How much did he give you for your
equity? A. $2,565.
Q. September, '94, at the time that you
got that money, how much had you on
hand? A. I don’t know.
Q. Where were you keeping your money
before you got the money from Stewart?
A. Before I got the money from Stewart
—at that time I think my brother Adry
had it in his vault.
Q. How much money did your brother
have in its vault for you at that time? A.
I don’t know exactly.
Q. In what shape, what kind of bundle
was it? A. Packages sealed up.
Q. Any mark on the outside? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To indicate the amount? A. No, sir.
Q. What mark was on the outside? A.
The time marked on there when it was to
be given to me.
Q. You were using your brother as a
depository in your gambling operations?
A. Yes, sir, up to the time that we had
our trouble.
Q. What time did you have your trouble?
A. We had the main trouble in the spring,
and I forgave him for that, and we went
along fairly until along the time he went
hunting; when he came back from that trip
I got the money, and he and I never had
any—he never acted as repository for me
after that.
Q. Did you ever give him the amount of
money that you had 2 A. I think so, yes,
sir.
Q. If you did you gave it to him truth-
fully? A. I have an idea that I did, yes,
sir.
Q. Wasn't it a great deal less than $2,000?
A. When 2
Q. Up to September? A. That I had 2
. Yes, sir. A. No, sir.
. Up to '94 A. No, sir.
Q
Q
Q. Wasn't it less than $1,000? A. No,
Sir.
!. Did you give him the money you got
from the City Bank when you cashed El.
der Stewart's check to put in the safety
deposit vault? A. No, sir, I do not think
he ever had the money.
Q. Didn't you have a big loosing yourself
about that time? A. I don’t remember.
I had so many winings and so many los-
ings that it is utterly impossible to place
them.
Q. Isn’t it true that before the first of
October you had lost all the proceeds of
your lot and all the proceeds of your pro-
fessed gambling? A. No, sir, it is not
true.
Q. Isn’t it true that that conversation
with Mr. Pottle was subsequent to the time
when you got the money from Elder Stew-
art? A. No, sir.
Q. In which you admitted to him you
were flat, that you had lost all you had 2
A. No, sir, that talk with Pottle was sub-
sequent to the time when I got some
money from Elder Stewart in '92.
Q. You had some heavy losings in St.
Paul, have you not? A. Yes—What do you
call heavy 7
Q. Well, $1,700, $2,500, $3,500. A. I never
lost that amount of money in St. Paul in
the world in one sitting.
Q. How much have you lost in any one
sitting in St. Paulº A. At a guess, I would
say $1,000.
Q. Where was that? A. At different
times there, I think mostly at Carney’s
Pacific House, on Seventh street.
Q. Haven’t you lost more than $1,000 at
Carney’s” A. No, sir, I think not.
Q. Didn't you lose as high as $3,500 at
one sittinº A. No, sir; I heard I did
around the city afterwards; the highest
losing I ever made was, in one place, was
at the Twin City Atheletic Club; one night
I lost $3,700. Never lost any money in No-
vember to amount to anything.
Q. What was the other places that you
gambled at in St. Paul ? A. I never gam-
bled any place else except there to amount
to anything; I don’t think I ever won or
lost; that is, in the last two years, over
$300 any place outside of Carney’s.
Q. Hadn't you been letting up on gamb-
bling for a week or two just previous to
the 2d of November? A. Well, you might
say I have been letting up gambling; well,
right along since the 1st of September, I
have gambled pretty heavy since that
time, but not near as much as before.
Q. Was there any reason why you should
discontinue very heavy gambling? A. No,
sir; no reason.
Q. You could have gambled just as
easily, if you chose to, then as any other
time? A. Yes, sir, I had money to gamble
with if I wanted to use it for that pur-
pose. During September, October and No-
vember. I do not think I gambled a great
deal. In fact, the idea of making this
loan was to get the money out of my
hands, and I calculated to stop gambling;
I was breaking myself of it. That is the
reason I made the loan and the reason that
I made the statement that I would not
have loaned the money on a mortgage on
the West Hotel, because I loaned it to her
in the business, because I could not get it
back any time I wanted it.
Q. You had been getting ready for this
loan how long previous to Nov 22 A. She
had talked about the loan for two or three
months before.
Q. Was there any particular reason why
you should resume gambling at about the
2d of November? A. Come to think of it,
I believe there was now.
Q. What was it? A. Well, sir, after Nov.
2, when I took these rings down there to
Mr. Gittleson, my capital then was right
in the neighborhood of $7,000, and at that
time my brother wanted to borrow $100,
and after I got back from Chicago I took
his ring down there and pawned it for him,
gave him the money on that and loaned
him $100. Whether I gambled before or
after that I do not know, but I won some
money there somewheres, whether I did it
in Minneapolis or St. Paul I don’t know
which.
Q. That is the only reason for resuming
gambling that you can recall? A. The only
thing that I think of.
Q. As a matter of fact when you had
plenty of money on hand wasn’t the first
impulse of your nature to go and try your
luck at the gambling table? A. No, sir.
As a matter of fact didn't you have
a large sum of money in your possession
personally on the 2d day of November? A.
I am sure I did; that is whether I had it
in my pocket or safe I don’t know.





352
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Don’t you immediately call on some-
body to go gambling at once? A. I don’t
remember.
Q. Didn't you get Patsy Garrity, looked
him up on the street and proposed at once
a trip to Chicago where the limit was high
and you get a chance at a large stake?
A. Come to think of it, I did.
Q. That was because on the 2d day of
November you had a large amount of
money in your possession? A. Yes, sir,
I suppose, or I would not have started
to gamble.
Q. Where did you get that large amount
of money? A. I guess I got it out of the
safe, probably, or I had it in my money
belt.
Q. Did you carry it for any great length
of time? A. I carried it down to Chicago,
a good part of it, and would carry it in a
money belt a good dead around the city; I
considered it safer in the money belt than
I did in the safe.
Q. It could not have been in your posses-
sion a great while before the 2d of No-
vember, or you would have hunted up Gar-
rity and started for the gambling table?
A. No. sir.
Q. There was no one withholding the
funds from you when the gambling mania.
struck you? A. Not at that time.
Q. How much did you take with you to
Chicago? A. Pretty close to $6,000.
Q. What kind of bills? A. Most of it
was $100 bills.
Q. To return just a moment. You didn’t
get $2,000 from Elder Stewart on that morn-
ing, at that time, did you? A. Nine hun-
dred and some odd dollars, something like
that.
Q. You owed him $1,000, and you gave
him a mortgage for $2,000? A. Yes, sir.
That was the loan I got in '92, that Mr.
Pottle refers to.
Q. Now, didn’t you lose approximately
$2,500 at a club house on Sixth street in
this city, about the middle of September,
*942 A. Never played in any gambling
house in September, '94. I don’t believe
there was any there on Sixth street, at
all, in fact, I know there is not. If it was
anything over $500 or $600 or $1,000 or so I
would remember it.
Q. But you made no loss of over $1,000
or $1,500 in any place in this city from Sep-
tember to November, in any gambling
house? A. No, sir.
Q. You went to Chicago expecting to
gamble? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why did you deceive your cousin 7 A.
How did I deceive him 2
Q. Why, you told him you were there
cashing up loans on diamonds in New
York? A. Never told him that at all.
Q. Did you tell him you were there to
gamble? A. No, because when I saw him
I found out there was no gambling there,
you see, I got that information before I
saw him.
Q. Well, then, what did you deceive him
for about where you had got this money?
A.. I never did deceive him.
Q. Didn't you tell him you had got it
as the proceeds of cashing a diamond loan
in New York, or somewhere else? A. I
don’t think I did. I might have told him
something. I know I owed him something
like $200 or $300. I got the draft to pay
him with, $400, I would not be surprised.
But I changed my mind.
Q. That was the loan he sent you to get
cashed, was it not, twelve or fourteen hun-
dred dollars? A. No, sir, seven hundred
dollars.
The Court—When was that?
Q. When was it you got it cashed for
him? A. Along in the summer.
Q. And you only sent him three hundred
dollars? A. I don’t think I sent him any-
thing—I went down there with it. He
owed me money before that.
Q. You only gave him three hundred dol-
lars of his own money? A. I don’t think I
gave him that much.
Q. You kept putting him off? A. No, sir,
I deducted the money he was owing me—
he was owing me money at that time—I
was loaning him money to help him get
along in school.
He was not owing you money after
you cashed the seven hundred dollar mort-
gage? A. Not after I cashed it, no.
Q. Why didn’t you send him the money?
A.. I took it down there and gave him all
he needed.
Q. Were you his guardian? A. Practi-
cally, yes, sir. Whenever he wrote to me
for money I either went down there with
it or I sent it to him.
Q. Well, along in July, '94, you got a
draft to send it to him and you did not
send it? A. No, sir, I did not get it in July.
It was about Nov. 1.
Q. What made you change your mind
after you got it? A. Well, I was going
down there; I went to Chicago myself.
Q. Well, if you were going down to Chi-
cago why did you get that draft for him
immediately preceding that trip? A. I did
not know that I was going to Chicago un-
til I saw Mr. Garrity that Saturday after-
noon.
Q. As a matter of fact, you did not make
up your mind to go to Chicago until after
you got staked? A. You say I did not;
that don’t need any answer.
Q. Why didn’t you pay your cousin that
money when you had it there in Chicago?
A.. I paid him all he wanted.
Q. Did you keep the balance of what you
owed him because you didn’t have enough
to make up your loan to Miss Ging? A.
Partially.
Q. What did you make the other loan of
Simon Gittleson for when you got back?
A. Because, as I say, I was short. If I had
paid my cousin all that money, then I
would have been short, and I could not
have made enough up on that loan to have
made the loan,
Q. Do you mean to say that you with-
held that money from your cousin and
borrowed this money of Simon Gittleson at
the current chattel rates on diamonds for
the purpose of getting enough money to
make up the $7,000 loan to Miss Ging? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you borrow money from any
other source to make up that sum? A.
No, sir.
Q. Now, as a matter of fact, your cousin
urged you in Chicago to pay him all of that
money; is not that true? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you tell Patsy Garrity how much
money you had with you when you went to
Chicago? A. No, sir, I did not. When I
am running around with anybody with a
large amount of money, I do not make it a
point to tell people how much money I
have got.






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
353
Q: Why was it you flashed the roll on
him coming home, and you did not flash it
on him going down to Chicago? A. Well,
I will tell you. When I went down to Chi-
cago with him, my money was in my money
belt under my clothes, and it was pretty
hard to flash it on him; I would have had
to have taken off my clothing if I had done
so; but coming back the money was in my
pocket, and it was easy to see.
Q. Well, tell us why you took it down to
Chicago in your money belt and brought
it back from Chicago in your pocket? A. I
will explain that. You see, 50 $100 bills, I
had that much in my pocket and some
small bills; and if you take that much
money out and roll it up and put it into
your pocket you will find it is pretty bung-
ling, a pretty thick wad of money. Well,
sir, I had it in my money belt and I was
perspiring and the money belt had become
wet and was uncomfortable, and that night
when I went to bed, instead of putting it
back in my money belt, I took it out and
straightened it up and put it in my pocket.
Q. You was careful not to tell Patsy
how much money you had in going to Chi-
cago, but in coming back you was not
careful to show him you didn't have any
money? A. Oh, no, sir; I was not very
careful. In going to Chicago there were
hints that I had money, or we would not
have gone down to Chicago.
Q. Are you sure you did not tell him
how much money you had 2 A. I didn't
tell him all I had; no. But he certainly
knew I had more than $40 or $50–I don’t
remember of telling him the exact annount.
I don’t remember now the exact annount I
had.
Q. Now, if Miss Ging had been talking
to you for two months about making the
$7,000 loan, the details of the business must
have been pretty thoroughly adjusted and
discussed between you, between that time
and the 1st of November, when you got
back? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why was it you told Adry you were
supposed to be busted when you got back
from Chicago? A. I never told him that.
Q. Why did you display a pawn ticket on
a Chicago pawnbroker's establishment? A.
I don’t remember I did. But probably if I
showed it to him it was because I was ex-
plaining to him that I had the ring down
there in pawn. It was a diamond ring, a
solitaire ring. I pawned it on Monday, I
think.
Q. Did Mr. Goodsell go with you when
you pawned it? A. No, sir.
Q. Well, Goodsell was with you all the
time? A. No, sir; he was not. I was away
from him long enough to pawn it, but I
guess I would have pawned it while he
was with me, if I wanted to.
Q: What did you pawn it for? A. Money.
Q. You had seven thousand dollars with
you? A. Yes, sir, but I was told to sell that
ring, do the best I could with it.
Q: Whose ring was it? A. Miss Ging's.
Miss Ging had two rings, and this was one
of them. She wanted me to sell it; she did
not want me to pawn it. She seemed
anxious right along to raise all the money
she could.
Q. And yet she had twenty-five hundred
dollars of your money at that time? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. It never aroused your suspicion when
she was trying to get rid of her ring? A.
No, sir. As I said, that main diamond ring
she had, she was not trying to get rid of
that, that was the ring I was trying to get
her to get rid of, and I finally succeeded, I
bought it of her. And the other ring she
did not wear that very much; I don’t be-
lieve I ever did see her wearb oth of them.
Q. Is that your explanation? A. Yes, sir;
that is the whole of it.
Q. And that is the reason you had nº
suspicions? A. How do you mean?
Q. Why, geting rid of the jewelry and
puting it up for money, when you knew
that she had a large amount of money
either on demand or on a short time loanº
A.. I did not think anything about it. That
small ring that I pawned or sold for her
she had been talking about selling it or
giving it to Miss Ireland all the summer.
Q. Then you had made up your mind.
in order to carry out the scheme you had
with Miss Ging, that you must have $7,000
plump when you came back from Chicago?
A. I never had any scheme with her.
Q. Well, you had a plan with her, to
make a loan of $7,000? A. Exactly, yes, sin.
Q. And you were puting up her jewelry,
and your jewelry, and withholding the pay-
ment of money you owed your cousin,
in order that you might have fully $7,000
when you got back here, is that right? A.
Well, with the exception of receiving this
$2,500 from her. In fact, this $2,500, she ask-
ed me before this loan if she could not keep
it for a short while after this, and I told
her if I could succeed in borrowing some
money of a brother of mine, another broth-
er, that I would let her keep that a while
longer. And I wrote a letter to my brother
asking him if he would loan me some
money, somewhere from $300 to $700, or $400
to $700, I don’t remember the amount, and
he wrote back and told me that he was
not in a position, or was not financially
fixed to do so. I told Miss Ging that under
those circumstances I would rather have
the money back. I wrote that letter possi-
bly a month before this $7,000 loan was
made, or two weeks before, anyway.
Q. If you expected to get back the $2,500
from her, why did you need to have $7,000
in cash in order to make her the loan of
$7,000? A. Because that time—before that
time is the time when I was contemplat-
ing, thinking—and that is the time where
she asked me if she could not keep the
$2,500 after the $7,000 loan was made, a
while longer.
Q. But you had decided that you would
not do it? A. Not at that time.
Q. Well, you had not made the loan
from your brother or anybody else? A.
Well, there was some time in there—when
I wrote the letter he was out to Salt Lake
City, and it took some time to get a letter
back.
Q. Well, we are narrowing things down
to the time when you were in Chicago and
putting up the partnership jewelry—at that
time you had not decided to let her keep
the $2,500? A. There was no partnership
between us.
Q. Well, it was between you and the
woman whom you expected to share your
joys and pleasures? A. At that time I was
acting as agent for her.
Q. At that time you expected to get
back the $2,500? A. I don’t know whether
I did or not at that time.
Q. Well, did you or did you not?
I don’t know.
A




304
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. Well, when did you finally make up
your mind? A. When I expected to get it
back?
Q. Yes. A. Before this loan was made
I was looking for it then.
Q. Well, then, did you expect to make
her a loan of $9,500? A. I don’t know
whether I did then or not. My opinion was
in the balance then.
Q. Now, your mind was in the balance,
whether it should be $9,500 or $7,000?
Yes, sir; that is whether she should keep
the $2,500 for a short time after she got
the $7,000. I didn’t understand that that
$2,500 was to be used in the business at all.
Q. What was to be done with it? A. I
don't know.
Q. Did any one but Goodsell count that
money you took to Chicago and brought
back from Chicago? A. I don’t think any-
body ever had it in their possession; no,
sir. They could not count it unless they
had it in their possession.
Q. Why did you have a lot of little pins
in that roll of money? A. I did not have
a lot of little pins in it.
Q. Did you not have the pins pinned to-
gether in such shaps that the ends of
the $100 bills would show and nothing else?
A.. I did not; it was solid hundreds.
Q. If you were making preparation to
make a $7,000 loan and surrounding yourself
with all the indicia of openness and fair-
ness why didn't you have some one else
count that money? A. Because I never
heard of such a thing in my life, a witness
on the paper is a witness to the signature
and I believe that yet.
Q. Why didn't you go to the bank and get
her a draft or check, something like that?
A. Because it was not my custom to keep
money in the bank.
Q. You never thought that if you had
gone to the bank and got a check or a
draft that it would always have been in
your possession as evidence? A. No, sir.
Q. You never deposited that money any-
where in a bank? A. No, and I will give
you the reason for it; because I was keep-
ing out of the clutches of Elder Stewart.
Q. What was Elder Stewart after you
for? A. Well, we had been dogging each
other off and on for a couple of years, it
had been a case of beef eat beef, and I
came out ahead of him and he don’t like
it. And I kept my money out of the bank
to save him jumping on it and attaching
it, something of that kind. I owed him in-
terest money.
Q. You owed him no interest money at
the time he bought your lot? A. No; then
was the time that I was all through with
him.
Q. I mean in November—you had no ob-
ject in keeping out of Elder Stewart's
clutches in November, did you? A. Well,
I had been keeping my money out of the
bank so long that I got in the habit of
keeping it in my pocket and not putting it
in the bank.
Q: Why did you not have a deposit vault
of your own? A. Well, I tell you; because
my brother's vault answered just as well
as though I had one; and if I had one of
my own I could have taken my money out
of it any time I wanted it; and when it
was in his vault he had instructions to
give it to me only at certain times, and I
could not get it when I wanted to ; and
there were times during the summer when
I was broke and unable to raise money.
Q. Didn't you go to him on the 6th of
November, when you came back from Chi-
cago, and wanted him then to put your
money in his vault? A. I don’t think I had
any such talk.
Q. Didn't you ask him at that time to
let you put your money in his vault, and
didn't he tell you, “No, the vault is
closed?” A. I did not—I don’t believe I
did. But, as I have had so many talks with
him, and I have put money in his vaults so
many times, it sounds like it is so.
Q. You did not at that time fear that
your brother had any designs against you,
becuse you knew nothing of his crooked-
ress or wrong-doing? A. I never did fear
at any time that he had any designs
against me. The trouble was mainly on
his part, towards me; he was the one that
held the grudge against me, and not me
against him.
Q. Had life insurance been talked of be-
tween you and Miss Ging as a possible
security for this loan before you went to
Chicago? A. I think it had; hard to say
about security.
Now, had the fact that you expected
to make her a loan and take as sceurity
life insurance have anything to do with
your necessity of having $7,000 in money?
A. Well, you see that puts in there taking
life insurance as security. I did not take
it as a total security.
Q. Well, did you have any other secur-
ity? A. Not at the time l made the loan,
no, sir.
Q. Well, you wanted it as security? A.
No, not as security; I did not figure it that
way at all.
Q. Well, you had talked about life in-
surance? You had gone around to life
insurance agents and had found out what
an insurable interest was, and you were
informed that you had to give full value
for the full amount of your insurable in-
terest? A. I knew that.
Q. And you asked how you might prove
your insurable interest? A. All those talks
and everything bunched up together were
to show me how, in taking this insurance,
it would be valid. I certainly did not want
to go to work and fuss around with an
insurance policy and have it assigned to
me and find out it was no good. It would
certainly be a very foolish thing to do.
Q. Didn't you admit on the stand that
the insurance, when you got it finally, twas
worth only about 50 per cent of the pre-
mium that had been paid? A. I think I
did.
Q. Why didn't you take out the $2,500 on
the 24th of November out of this $7,000
which you loaned her? A. Because I want-
ed to loan perfectly straight loan; I did
not want to deduct any old notes. And at
that time she did not want to pay me the
money at that time; she wanted to keep it
a little while longer and pay me is a short
time.
Q. Well, if you were negotiating a $7,000
loan to be consummated about the 24th of
November, will you tell me why you want-
ed more than $4,500 when she owed you
$2,500? A. Well, the first of November,
when I was hustling and getting this
money, was the time, I think, when she
told me she wanted to keep the $2,500 along
possibly until the 1st of January; then, in
the neighborhood of that time, I told her if




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
355
1 could succeed in getting this money of
my brother I would allow her to keep it,
and she would have $9,500 of my money for
a month and possibly two months; that is
the reason.
Q. When you got this letter from her—
exhibit “K”—on the morning of the 30th of
November, did you understand then that
she refused to give you back the $2,500? A.
I did, when I got the letter.
Q. Did it surprise you she didn’t speak
of $2,500, but of $2,000? A. No, sir.
Q. Where were you and she off in your
calculation as to whether the amount was
$2,000 or $2,500? A. Well, when I commenced
to ask her for that money I said $2,000; I
did not want to give her the impression I
was pinning her right down to the exact
dollars and cents. I did not talk to her
up and down the same as I would to a
business man.
Q. You talked to her up and down in or—
der to get money for gambling purposes?
A. No, sir, I did not talk to her up and
down to get her money; it was her own
proposition.
Q. You talked to her up and down for
the purpose of getting this receipt? A. I.
did not; it was an offer of her own to get
me to continue taking her money.
Q. You wrote it? A. I did, and she
knew what she wanted.
(Witness shown letter, exhibit “K.”)
Q. Now about that letter in which she
said I can’t get the money now unless I
use a part of the $7,000, didn’t it strike you
that that was just what you wanted her
to do, to give you a part of the $7,000? A.
No, sir.
Q. You did not care whether it was the
$2,500 that you had let her have or whether
she took it out of the $7,000? A. Not par-
ticularly.
Q. Didn't you say you would have taken
it out of the $7,000 yourself? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Except you wanted the full $7,000 to
be paid her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, were you opposed to her re-
turning the $2,500 out of the $7,000? A. Yes,
sir, I was.
Q. Why? A. Well, this $7,000 was to go
into business with, and naturally being in-
herested in her I was interested in the
business being run in the right kind of
manner; and possibly I would rather have
been put out to some extent in not getting
the $2,500 than to have this amount come
out of the $7,000 which she was to put in
her business.
Q. That was your understanding. Now,
read the second paragraph? A. “And I
don’t see why you want so much as $2,000
now. When you loaned it to me you said
you did not want it very soon.”
Q. Now, she evidently understands that
as a 16an and not as a deposit as you put
it? A. Well, that is just what it was; I
gave her that money and it was nothing
but an ordinary loan. I did not see any-
thing different about it only the explana-
tion of it; it was a loan, made same as any
other loan, only instead of her asking me
for that money, I gave it to her.
Q. Now, was there any other reason why
you did not want the seven thousand dol-
lars, so-called, touched? A. Nothing at all,
excepting I wanted it used in the business.
Q. Had you ever made any inquiry to
see how much money was necessary to
º in the millinery business? A. Yes,
Slº.
Q. Of whom had you inquired? A. Miss
Ging. -
Q. Had you made any inquiry about the
rent of the store, and the furnishings
which she was to use in her business? A.
No, sir, only through her.
Q. You did not know a thing about this
only what she told you? A. That is all.
Q. When she said, “The first of January
I will have all of my money and then we
can straighten everything up,” what did
you understand her to mean? A. Well, I
understood this—I did not know much about
it—I did not know what was the matter. I
supposed she could get the $2,500, she had
been telling me she would get it the next
day, and the next day, and the next day,
and so on. When she said she could not get
the $2,500 until the first of January, I
thought it was kind of funny when she
had $2,000 in her hands two days before
that. That is what made it look kind of
funny to me.
Q. Have you not been telling us all the
time she had the $2,500 loaned out? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then, why were you surprised at her
telling you she had this $2,500 loaned out?
A. Well, before that she had been telling
me she was going to get it within a few
days; and in that letter she told me she
could not get it before the 1st of January,
because it was loaned out, and then I
thought it was a different kind of a loan.
This is what made me provoked.
Q. Why didn't you ask her for that
money when she was in Barge's restau-
rant, when you saw her have that roll of
money? A. I hinted for it pretty strongly.
Q. Didn't you know enough to ask her
for it? A. I did ask her for it in a way.
Q. If I owed you money and had money
laying on the table there, and you knew it
was your money, that I had promised it to
you, I think you would have reached for it?
A.. I would not.
Q. You did not say to her, “That was
the money you were to give me; give it
to me now?” A. No, sir, I did not say it
that strong. I don’t remember the words.
Q. Were you gauging the strength of
your words at that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. With great care? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What, were you afraid of Catherine
Ging at that time? A. I thought a great
deal of her.
Q. Was it because of your regard for her
that you were afraid of her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is one reason why you did not
talk plain to her? A. That is. If it had
been anybody else I did not care anything
for I would have taken the money and put
it in my pocket.
Q. Well, if you had had regard for her,
and regard for her safety, why didn't you
throw her muff, or something over the
money and cover it up, instead of calling
the waiter up and telling him to look at
this woman's flashing $2,000? A. Because
she had been there so much and we knew
the waiter pretty well.
Q. Did you know now much money there
was in that roll when it was laying there?
A. Yes, sir. She told me. I asked her whose
money it was.
Q. She would not tell you? A. No, sir.
Q. And that did not arouse your suspi-
cion? No, sir; I will explain that if you
want me to.
* Q. Yes. A. She would not explain any-




356
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
thing, not only to me, but to anybody. I
tell you she would not tell the simplest
things, don't make any difference what it
was. If you would come into the office
there and she had a piece of blank paper
going to put it under a book, or some-
thing of that kind, and asked her just by
way of conversation, “What is that?” and
she would say, “Oh, something,” where
anybody else would tell you in a minute.
I had become accustomed to her manner,
so I did not think anything of it. I never
could find out anything.
Q. Where is the duplicate of this? (Wit-
ness shown letter written by himself to
Miss Ging.) A. I guess Mr. Smith has
got it.
Mr. Smith–I will have it his afternoon;
I have not got it here.
The Witness—Well, it is exactly like that.
Q. Well, you had a duplicate of these?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And these other letters? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Which you produced a few minutes
after you came into the chief's office on
the morning of Wednesday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you had written on the envelope,
and had duplicates of all complete? A.
Well, I had a duplicate of the letter; I
ion't remember about the envelope.
Q. Well, you had an envelope? A. Pos-
sibly—I don’t remember the envelope,
though.
Q. Why did you satrt to change that
with a lead pencil, changing other words?
A. Let me see that.
Q. Was that a carefully composed epis-
tle? A. No, I wrote it in a hurry. Well, it
says in here, the first insertion, “said you
would pay the other in a few days.” Where
it says pay, I inserted in pencil, “me,” that
would make it more explicit, but it does
not change the meaning of it.
Q. Were you afraid that she would not
understand that you wanted it paid? A.
Well, I will tell you—I don’t understand
those pencil writings yet.
Q. Is it your handwriting? A. Looks like
it. But I would not swear it was not put
in down in the city hall; but I can’t see
any sense in it at all.
Q. Was this letter in the same condition
when it reached you as it is now? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Look at it closely? A. It is, unless you
folks changed it.
Q. Well, look and see? A. Well, the
words, “at the restaurant,” seem to have
been written in the place of some other
words; where those words are it appears
as though something had been erased and
those words put in. Where the words “at
ºne restaurant” has been written some-
thing else was there originally in its place.
Q. Do you know whether that was there
when you wrote it? A. I don't know, I
think so.
Q. Did you ever know what it was in
the place of these words? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever ask Rate what it was?
A. No, sir.
Q. The words “at the restaurant” are ap-
parently in the same writing as the rest
of the note? A. Yes, sir.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o'clock.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 26.
Harry T. Hayward
Q. You knew that Miss Ging had procured
a box in the Minnesota. Loan and Trust
Company's Deposit Vault, did you not?
A. Not certain, no. I never saw her get
it. She told me she was going to get the
vault.
Q. Didn't she come back and tell you
that she had gotten a vault? A. No, sir,
she has told me after that some time that
she got a vault. She has been up to the
office a number of times, and it is impos-
sible for me to recall every time that she
has been there; and I feel positive that she
did not come back; because there would
be no occasion for it. But it is my impres-
sion that she was at the office there twice
that morning; that she came in and I was
writing there this letter; she went away
and came back in just a short time. It is
my impression that she was at my office
twice that morning.
Q. Hadn’t you an understanding with her
to put the money in a vault? A. It was
none of my business; she told me she was
going to put it in.
Didn't you on the morning after this
homicide, in the presence of Mr. Eustis and
Mr. Hitchcock, the stenographer, on the
4th of December, describe the occurrences
of the 24th of November?
Q. You knew she got the box? A. It is
my impression that she got a box, or at
least she told me she got one.
Q. Isn't it a fact that you knew before
she went out that she was going over to
the deposit vaults, and put at least some of
that money in the deposit box? A. I knew
she told me she was going there to put it
1n.
Q. Didn't she immediately after that
come back to you at the office and report
to you that she had odne as you suggested?
A. To the best of my recollection she did
not
Q. Isn't it true that Mr. Blixt's account
of what took place is accurately and iden-
tically correct? A. No, sir.
Q. That she did go down and in a little
While come back while he was there? A.
That part of it.
Q. And stepped into the other room and
had a talk? A. That seems to tally
with this.
Q. What did she come back there for
after she had gone out to the safety de-
posit vaults? A. It would have been bet-
ter to ask me that, because it don't look
like it was that way.
Q. Can you give us any explanation of
why she came back? A. No. What time
of night was that?
Q. This is the beginning of the state-
ment. A. It may be pretty near right.
Q. Pretty near? A. I don’t know. I
don’t see what difference it makes anyway.
Maybe she did. I think it is the other way.
Q. Can you give to the jury and court
any explanation or any reason for her com-
ing back in any conversation she had with
you then and there, when she returned?
A. Yes, if I knew it to be a fact that she
did come back, I would not see anything
but was all right.
Q. Can you tell us what she came back
there for the second time? A. I think now
she came back the second time to get the
money.







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
357
Q. Didn't you state that she came back
and told you that she had put it in a box?
What did she come back for the money the
second time for? A. She told me some time
or other she had put it in a box. -
Q. Didn't you state that she then and
there came back and told you she had put
it in a box” A. I looks like it; if it is
there, I said it.
Q. Did she tell you anything else? A. I
tell you I have no recollection of that at all
now.
Q. You had that morning a recollection
about it, didn't you? A. I looked like it.
I evidently got it confounded with another
trip.
Q. As a matter of fact, you knew she
was going to put that money in a vault,
didn't you? A. She told me so.
Q. You had her come back to report to
you after she had put it in? A. No, sir.
Q. Then what other purpose or object did
she have in coming back after she had
been to the vault?? A. I don’t believe she
came back after she visited the vault.
Q. Did you tell the truth, then, when you
made this statement, or are you telling it
now 2 A. I did not aim to tell a lie when I
told that, but I say now I believe there are
two trips, but I don't believe she came
back after the loan because I did not see
her.
Q. You have no explanation to offer? A.
No, sir, I cannot think of any unless she
came in to tell me that she had got the
vault, and everything was all right.
Q. Didn't she at that time show you her
keys and tell you where her box was in
the safety deposit vault? A. It is my im-
pression some time or other she did show
me the keys. It seems to me so. What
kind of looking keys are they? Then I can
tell you positively. I have a pretty good
recollection of how things look. I can
place things better than anybody.
(The witness is here shown keys.)
The Witness—Yes, I believe some time I
have seen them.
Q. Didn't she come back and show you
that same day and tell you the number of
the box? A. Well, what day was the next
day? The next day was Sunday.
Q. The next day was Sunday? A. Where
does it say in the inquisition I was on Sun-
day?
Q. Don't you recollect? A. I cannot now.
Q. Can you fix the time when Miss Ging
showed you those keys? A. No, sir, I can-
not; but I have seen those keys. I am sure
of it.
Q. Miss Ging made no secret of any-
thing from you? A. Not that I knew of
then.
Q. The entire disposition of the money
and her conduct in regard to it was an
open book to you, was it? A. At that time,
yes, sir. -
Q. When did you begin to get suspicious?
She came back and told you all about
where the money was’ A. Yes, sir, she
came back, or whenever I saw her after
that—I did not really get suspicious; the
first time I was really suspicious was when
I got these letters.
Q. Didn't it make you suspicious when
she flashed $2,000 in Barge's restaurant? A.
A trifle. -
Q. You had never seen her flash $2,000
before? A. No, sir.
Q. And she at that time had $9,500 of
your money, according to your say? A.
Yes, I thoroughly trusted her.
Q. As far as you knew, that money was
put in a safety deposit vault or in a bank?
A. No, sir; I did not believe it was in the
vault, all of it, the $9,500.
Q. How much did you think was in the
vault? A. I thought $7,000 was in the vault.
Q. What made you think there was $7,000
in the vault and $2,500 not there? A. She
told me she was going to put $7,000 in that
vault; that is what made me believe it.
Q. Now had you any talk with her in
regard to the $2,5000 at the time of the mak-
ing of the loan 2 A. I don't remember; I
did either just before or at that time.
Q. How long was she there before Blixt.
came in 2 A. Not very long.
Q. Do you say that these assignments
were only partially written out at that
time? A. They were all written except
the number.
Q. Do you mean to say that the number
was not written into that assignment at
the time that she signed it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That that was inserted later, from
the same ink bottle? A.. I don’t know. It
looks like—
Q. With the same pen? A. It is pretty
hard to say it is the same pen.
Q. How many days after? A. It must
have been 10 after I got the policy, a few
days.
Q. And the same with regard to this
other? A. Both of them, yes.
. That number was written in subse-
quently? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And all the rest of it was filled out
at the time this $7,000 note was written ? A.
Yes.
Q. How many ink bottles were there on
your father's desk, or on Adry's 2 A. On
Adry's, one; on father's, about five or six
Or seven.
Q. You wrote these on Adry's desk? A.
I don’t remember about that.
Q. Did Miss Ging sign them at the same
desk that you wrote them? A. I don’t re-
member that. It is my impression, though,
that those assignments were written, were
made out even a day before the 24th; that
is, the body of them, barring the number,
and I think she signed the note; I don’t
believe the assignments were there, that is,
she signed them there; because she got
right up and went into the other room,
and was counting the money; and to the
best of my belief I took the pen in to her
and had her sign the other, sign the two
in the other room. It seems to me that is
the way I remember it. -
Q. Isn't it true that the ink of the notes,
the $2,000 and $500 note, and the ink of the
signature of these receipts is the same?
A. It is evidently the same ink, all these
three.
Q. Now, isn’t the ink with which this
$7,000 note, signed by Catherine Ging, the
same ink as that in which the not is
written? A: I don't know; it looks like it.
Q. And the ink with which Catherine
Ging's name is signed on the $7,000 note is
not the same ink as that in which she
signed the two receipts that you have re-
ferred to; isn't that true; it has a different
color; the ink with which she signed the
note is different from the ink with which
she signed the receipts; isn't that true? A.
I don't know; I cannot study it out. It
looks to me like two or three kinds of ink.



358 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. You see the ink with which the note
is signed is not the ink with which the re-
ceipt was signed. Do you claim they were
all signed at the same table? A. I told you
I did not. I told you it was my impression
they were signed in the other room. It is
too fine a point for me to distinguish, to
make it out. I can’t tell you.
Q. There is a slight difference apparently
in the tone of the ink, isn’t there? A. It
don’t look to me like it is, very much. It
don’t look to me like it. If I used the blot-
ter one place before the other, it seems to
me it would make the difference. The ink
is just he same, except father usually puts
a little water in the ink when it gets thick.
Q. Isn't it true that the ink of the three
notes, the $2,000 and the $500 note, the body
of them, is all the same ink, the same
color and the same tone? A. It looks very
much like it.
Q. Isn’t it true that all through the sig-
natures are exactly the same color, the
same shading and the same tone of ink?
A. It looks very much like it, yes, sir. I
can swear positively when that note was
signed, and the money transaction and ev-
erything, and all about it.
Q. That is the $1,000 note? A. Yes, sir.
Q. We have had you describe that once
before? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is there anything new you want to
say? A. Nothing, only I might have some
doubt about when this was done, but that
is the note, it is very distinct in my mind,
was signed in the office just before I went
to Chicago; and I was with her in Barge's
restaurant in the evening, and took her to
the office and went from there to the train.
Q. What did you get on that ring in
Chicago? A. Thirty or thirty-five dollars.
Q. You did not pay that to her after you
got leackº A.. I did
Q. You did not pay her any money. You
did not give your cousin the money you
owed him at that time? A. I gave him
part of it, all he needed.
Q. You came back and pawnedºsome of
this jewelry for $187, and got it? A. Yes,
I did.
Q. You got that money to make up $7,000?
A. Yes, sir, partly.
Q. Just previous to that you let her have
$2,000 previous to going down there? A.
Yes, sir, that is right. I will say at that
time, while I was going down to make the
loan then and everything, there was not
any dead certainty about it at all. Even
if that insurance had been gotten out, and
I had refused to loan her this $7,000, there
would have been no hard feelings. on her
part.
Q. When you became suspicious of her
at first? A. I think the very first inkling
of it, of any trifling suspicion at all, was
in that restaurant. There was a slight sus-
picion then.
Q. You next went to Waterman, did you,
for the purpose of ascertaining what she
was doing with the money, or what she had
done with it? A. On Sunday after that,
yes, sir, I did.
Q. Now, you have seen her between Wed-
nesday and Sunday a good deal? A. Yes.
Q. You saw her Thursday, and then you
made the note Friday? A. Yes.
Q. And you were not with her any time,
Friday, you say? A. Not in the day time,
I don’t think.
-
Q. What did you meet her at the corner
of Fifth and First avenue north for, on
Friday evening 2 A. I did not meet her
there.
Q. Where did you first meet her on Fri-
day evening 2 A. If I met her at all it was
up in the flat.
Q. At what time? A. I don’t remember,
but I would guess it, any ordinary time
after supper.
Q. You had received two notes and had
written out one note on Friday, and had
not called to see her and had not gone
near her to ask her in person what was in
these notes, or what you had written in
them, and yet you don’t remember the
time when you went to see her Friday
evening? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember anything of the
substance of the conversation at that
time? A. I don’t remember the words, but
if Miss Ireland was not there I can have an
idea of what it was.
Q. If Miss Ireland was there, then you.
don’t remember? A. If Miss Ireland was
there, I am sure there was no conversation
in regard to the notes.
Q. Will you tell us why it was that
whenever Miss Ireland was present you
never had any talk about money or the
loan 2 A. I had been requested by Miss
Ging always not to say anything in front
of her.
Q. Didn’t you know that if the sub-
ject of the loan or the money was ever
approached or spoken of in the presence of
all three of you that Miss Ging would
have told the real facts and not any
sham 2 A. She was approached.
Q. When 2 A. Sometime Thursday, Fri-
day, Saturday or Sunday. It was about
the vault.
Q. Whether it was high or low, on this
side or that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You did not need to ask any such
question as that of Miss Ging? A. Do you
Want to know what I asked her?
Q. Yes, sir. A. That is the time after I
ann sure that I received these letters. Any
way it was after that loan, I am sure of
that. It was after my suspicions were
aroused and from different things. Miss
Ireland had turned me off at different
times, refusing to tell me where Miss Ging
was, so that I thought Miss Ireland must
know about that box, because she was
with her continually, and I thought she
must know about it; and I thought I
would bring up the conversation in front
of Miss Ireland, and see if she would say
anything.
Q. Didn't you dare to go to ask some-
thing about where the box was, whether
high up or low down, or where it was?
A. I was satisfied then.
Q. Do you remember of the extreme ap-
proach to it, that you dared to go in Miss
Ireland's presence? A. I probably would
have gone further after a while.
Q. You remember that extreme remark
made? A. Yes, sir.
And you don’t recall another? A. I
recall that because I wanted to know if
she really; I wanted to make out some
conversation to get Miss Ireland inter-
ested in the talk. I thought it was pos-
sible. She was sitting right there in front
of us. I mentioned about the vault, and the
conversation went around generally, but
Miss Ireland did not open her lips about






of THE HAyv ARD MURDER TRIAL. 359
the vault once, and that firmly convinced
me she did know of it and that something
was wrong about it.
Q: Why didn't you go to her straight
and ask the question? A: I asked lots of
little things that way, and she would
never tell me.
Q. Did you ever ask her the question
whether she knew anything about this
loan, and where her aunt had the money,
or what her aunt was doing with the
money? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not listen to her? A. No, sir,
my common sense would tell me she would
not tell anything any way, if she did
know.
Q. Well, you did go to Waterman? A.
Yes, sir.
. How long have you known Water-
man? A. Oh, six months, I guess.
Q. Gambled with him? A. Some.
Q. You went to him before Sunday,
didn't you, to tell him there was some trou-
ble about the loan 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Hadn't you been to him before that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was Sunday morning the first time
you ever approached him? A. Sunday right
after lunch, I think, was the first time.
Q. When did he tell you he would go to
see her about it? A. He said he would go
that evening. I told him, I says “Try and
go this afternoon. I will not be there. Then
you can do the business. It would not do
for you to try that when I was there.”
Q. You told him to ask where she had
the money? A. Yes, particularly about that.
Q. What money did you refer to? A.
The $7,000.
Q. You hadn't any reason to doubt but
what the $7,000 was in that vault all the
while, did you? Hadn't she offered to re-
turn you $2,000 before the $7,000? A. Yes,
sir, she mentioned it.
Q. You are sure you told him to inquire
where she had the money, meaning the
$7,000? A. Yes, either that time or Monday;
because I told Waterman this—you see, I
advised with Waterman a month or two
before this, about what he thought about
loaning it. Well, he did not know much
about it; he thought it better to go in the
lumber business, as he was in that busi-
ness. But I loaned it, and I came in there
Sunday, and I says, “Waterman, I guess
that I better have taken your advice and
kept that money.” And I showed him these
letters, and so on, and then I says “Water-
man, find out if you can where that money
is; if it is in a vault, I mean to attach
it.” That is what I told him.
Q. Did you give him any cautions? A.
Yes, sir, I did. I cautioned him to go at it
in a sharp way and not let her think that
I was sending him. I did not want her to
think that I was suspicioning her.
Q. I should think when you would put
another one to ask the question, you would
have him ask it direct. A. I asked her di-
rectly time and time again where the
money was, and so on. That was after she
told me that this money did not belong to
her, and I wanted to know who it did be-
long to, and at that time she told me the
money was not with Jones & Sons', and
naturally I wondered where it was.
Q. At that time you were not only sus-
picious of the transaction, but you were
suspicious that Miss Ging was in a scheme
to do you up? A. I kind of thought hat a
little bit; sort of believed it.
Q. Believing she was in a scheme to do
you up, you sent Waterman to see her,
and yet cautioned Waterman not to dis-
close the fact that you had suspicions of
her? A. That is right.
Q. Now, when he came back he did not
tell you anything at all about whether the
money was in the vault or not? A. No.
Q. He did not ask her a question about
that? A. No, sir, he said he did not.
Q. He simply came back and in a gen-
eral flim-flam said: “It is all right, every-
thing is all right?” A. Yes, sir, that is
all right. -
Q. And your suspicions were allayed in-
mediately? A. For the time being, a little
bit, yes, sir. He told me to find out about
the millinery business, and he said that she
had on her cloak then and she and Miss
Ireland were just going about the street
about renting the store; and I guess if you
ask Miss Ireland she will say they went
there.
Q. Was there any assurance that
had the money? A. I should think so. -
Q. Did he tell you when he told her what
she
a nice thing money was that she said,
“Yes, we can paint the town nicely?'' A.
He did not tell me that.
Q. Now, isn’t it true that your real pur-
pose in cautioning Waterman not to go too
far in his inquiry with Miss Ging was that
you did not want him to know the whole
of the transaction between yourself and
Miss Ging? A. No, sir, all the object that
I had in cautioning Waterman not to go
too far or be too direct was that he would
not arouse Miss Ging's suspicions. She
being a very dear friend of mine, I would
not want her to think that I was sus-
picioning her and bringing in a third party
to watch her. If everything was right I
did not want her to suspicion me at all.
Q. Didn't you testify that you made up
your mind that if he came back and told
you the money was in the vault that you
were going to go right straight and attach
it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You would have been afraid of her
suspicions when you attached it? A. No;
if I had found the money was in the vault
and she had told me about not going into
business, or something of that kind, then I
would have attached it under those cir-
cumstances, but it would depend something
on what information I got.
Q. If your desire was to find out that
the money was in the vault, and if it was
in the vault, then you would feel all right;
how do you account for your expression
that you would attach it if you found it
in the vault? A. Not necessarily; if it
had been in the vault and she would have
told Waterman differetn things from what
she told me, then I would have attached it.
But she told Waterman just exactly what
she told me. Do you see?
Q. You remember very well that Water-
man said nothing to you when he came
back about that money being in the vault,
don't you? A. I do. -
Q. Because you knew that he was cau-
tioned not to ask her if that money was
in that vault? A. I cautioned him to ask
her that if it was
Q. And you cautioned him not to ask
her that because you knew that money







360
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
was not in that vault? A. I say I told
him to ask her that if it was in that vault,
and not the other way. You have it up-
side down.
Q. I haven't got it upside down. I am
trying to get you right. A. I am trying to
get you straight. I told him to ask if the
money was in the vault.
Q. You knew the money was in the
vault? A. I did not.
Q. What time did you say she was there
when she had the package, you remember-
ed accurately, 20 inches long and 6 inches
through 2 A. Saturday; I should guess that
about 4 o’clock.
Q. You know now that she had just
come from the safety deposit vault when
she came to your office? A. No, sir.
Q: Didn't she tell you she had just come
from there? A. No, sir.
Q: Didn't she bring a package with her
at that time? A. Yes.
Didn't she leave that package with
º A. No, sir. p 8. 1.
Do you remember it accuratel
- - y, the
length and thickness of that package, and
the soft feel to it? A. I bet there is a
** # the inquisition about it.
- ow did you remember SO accurat
about it at that time on that i.
mºrning? A. Because it was so distinctly
called to my mind, and the mayor said
º is the size of it, and We figured and
*. and marked it out, and got a rule
- think, and measured it, 20 inches and six
inches in diameter. That is the reas. I
*...". "º. set in my mind now
at time from 2: - - .” "
"..." of 4 o’clock. 30 until 4:30, in-
- Miss Ging frequentl -
ages? A: I think so, .." carried pack-
Q. She was a dressmaker,
have packages every tim
*::: is true? A. I don’t
Isn’t it the regular thin
With a package in her hand ... See her
from her shopt to the dry i. to and
around on Nicollet? A. I have ...”.
". *. to dry goods stores. en
º 911 recall this circum
"...º.º. the ...”. * the
- You - * . --
No, sir. on’t remember what she said?
Q. You don't remembe h
for? A. No; she pr * What she called
social caui. ' probably called upon a
Q. You can't recollect -
thing:
about what you did Satu any º
about what occurred? *. afternoo
Q. Monday you can give a
doings, every saloon and
and every place you w
and would
e she went out;
know.
Il, or
detail of your
the Dime Museum,
ent into from the
th
*::: *...* and 4 o’clock? * S. between
- nº cannot tell anything abou
she said? A. Yes; nothing º º:
* I don’t think. ul
- Where did you go that S
- atu.
º: º is the night I came º
or Miss Ging up i
was not there. & up in her room. She
Q: What time did you inquire?
past 7, I think; that is my ºu. Half
Q: Did you make it a practice to go there
every evening at half past 7 to inquire? A.
In that neighborhood, to see her; I was
up there most every evening.
Q. Was that sincere regard for her wel-
fare or a part of your suspicions? A. I
called on her, made calls, because I en-
joyed myself with her, and that is what I
went for. I went there to visit her.
Q. You did not see her that Saturday
evening? A. I did not, that early; I saw
her late, about 9 o'clock.
Q. After you left there at half past 7,
where did you go? A. Well, I hung around
the flat quite a while.
Q. How long? A. I know I went down to
the Syndicate Block.
Who did you se around the building?
Can you tell us any person you saw or
anything you did or anything you said? A.
I don’t remember seeing either Blixt or
the other man that runs the elevator, but
I am sure I saw one of them, because I came
down the elevator, and they were running
it.
Q. Were you visible to anybody else
around the flat? A. I think not, only in
the fourth floor. I had a talk with mother
and father.
Q. Can you recall something about the
time when you saw them? A. I don’t re-
member it at all; but I am positive I would
go direct from from there to Miss Ging's
room.
Q. Have you any recollection of where
you were that evening and what you did?
If you have, will you tellu s in detail just
what you did that Saturday evening? A.
Well, I think I went down town about a
quarter after 8, down to the Syndicate
Block; went down there, and went up
stairs. Miss Ireland told me that she
thought, or had thought, she was down at
the Syndicate.
Q. Where did you go at the Syndicate
Building? A. I went up stairs; I don't
know whether I got clear up. I got up
where I could see there was no light in
the room, and went down again; went
down again, and went to Nicollet and
went over to the Zephyr saloon. That is
when I met this lady and picked up the
Oranges.
Q. What time was that? A.
have been 20 minutes to 9.
Q. You went back to the Ozark? A. Yes,
It must
slı”.
Q. Left the Ozark at half past 7? A.
No, sir; I don’t think I left there until af-
ter 8 o’clock.
Q. You got back when? A. 9 o'clock.
Q. Who did you see at 9 o'clock there? A.
Miss Ireland.
Q. How long did you see her before Miss
Ging came in 2 A. Five or ten minutes.
Q. Were’nt you in Barge's restaurant
that evening after 7 and before 9 or about
92 A. No, Sır.
Q. You swear that you were not there?
A. I put it in this way, after I was down
to the Zephyr saloon and picked up those
lemons, I came across Fourth street, or
may have crossed Third street to Henne-
pin, and on the way there it is possible I
may have stepped in there.
Q. Is there any feeling of recollection
that you may have been there that night?
A. No, sir, there is not, but there is at
the Zephyr saloon, as it is a very swell
place, and impressed on my mind very
definitely.
Q. Answer me positively, were you or
were you not at Barge's restaurant that
night before you got back to the Ozark?
A. I cannot say for certain.



OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
351
Q. I will refresh your memory. Were
you there with Miss Ging? A. No, sir.
Q. Weren't you up stairs in the same
room where you had been that day be-
fore? A. I was not.
Q. The day when you say that you had
this talk with your brother Adry, was it
the 27th or 28th of April? A. The only
way I can tell is by the charge of the rig
at Goosman's, and they say that was Fri-
dav
Q. Do you remember reading in the
newspapers the account of the affair as
having taken place on the 28th of April?
A. The 28th is Saturday—yes, I remember.
Q. You knew that account was incor-
rect? That, in fact, it had taken place on
the evening of the 27th 2 A. Yes.
Q. Now, that report came out a day late,
didn’t it? A. Yes.
Q. It was published on the 29th 2 A. I
don’t think it was published until after
the 29th.
Mr. Shoemaker–May 1.
Q. Some days after the thing occurred?
A. Yes.
Q. When was the morning that you had
your talk with your brother Adry? A. I
think it was the identical next day.
Q. Saturday, the 28th 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you sure about it? A. I would
not swear to it. It was the next time I
saw him.
Q. You have a vivid recollection of
what took place? A. Yes, I have.
Q. Now, what morning was it? A. I can-
not say certain; it was my next meeting
with him.
Q. Well, the circumstances of that hold-
up was such an unusual one that you
would recollect the night it occurred and
whether you met your brother the follow-
ing morning immediately after? A. No,
sir.
Q. You don't remember whether it was
the next morning? A. No, sir.
Q. You cannot recall anything about it;
it might have been a couple of days after?
A. Possibly.
Q. Nothing calls it to your mind? A. I
will state this; you see the next day was
Saturday, and the next day I would have
seen him over at the office. The next day
would have been Monday. So I am pretty,
sure it was Saturday. It may have been
right after dinner.
Q. You can't tell whether it was early in
the morning, the middle of the forenoon,
or when; noon or in the afternoon? A. No,
sir.
Q. It may have been either? A. It may
have been.
Q. You simply recall the circumstance of
coming into the room and seeing your
brother over the safe? A. Yes.
Q. Was there any box in the safe belong-
ing to Adry? A. Yes.
Q. What box? A. A wooden drawer un-
der the iron box.
Q. It was not locked? A. I don’t know.
Everey time I heard of it—in fact, I know
it was locked.
Q. You had access? A. I could have any-
thing in it; yes.
Q. Now, that watch which you then saw
in his hand, as you described it? A. Yes,
sir, it was in his hand.
Q. You got clear onto him before he real-
tºed it? A. Yes.
Q. He was there with both doors open;
door open into the hall and the safe was
open, and he was stooping down over the
safe? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you got clear up alongside of him
before he realized you were there? A. I
got there in front of him, you might say.
Q. What sort of a watch was it? A. The
watch was a watch with a deer on it.
This watch had a turn case, a good deal
similar to this. That watch had a turned
case, I am sure of it.
Q. This watch had been on the night be-
fore yours? A. Yes. It had a deer on, and
on the other side was a landscape.
Q. Not a very expensive watch, was it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had you seen the watch before? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Who did that watch belong to before
you got it? A. Adry.
Q. Adry had had that watch for some
time; swapped it to you? A. Yes.
Q. It was a watch that Adry would have
known in a minute, as soon as he got it?
A. Yes.
Q. He had carried it himself and owned
it himself? A. Yes.
Q. What was it you said? A. I stood
perfectly still for awhile. He was stoop-
ing down and did not see me. I saw the
watch the first thing, and I stood there, I
believe, a minute without saying anything.
I think the first words that were said, he
looked up, and I think he said: “God damn
you, what are you sneaking in onto me
for?” something to that effect.
Q. Well, directly after that he broke in
two, as you described it? A. No, sir, not
directly.
Q. Well, what terrible fact did you con-
front him. With that broke him in two?
A. Well, I think the next was after he
said that—I think I told him that that
watch was taken from me the night be-
fore. I said the Watch was taken from
me, and I know that he stuttered and stam-
mered, showing that he was terribly em-
barrassed; and I asked him something
about it—I don’t know the exact words–
but I asked him for some kind of an ex-
planation; and he made some bluff, or
something on his part, for me to shut my
mouth; I don't remember his exact words.
And I know then what I proposed to do; I
came in then, and that is where that scene
took place that he described so vividly;
and I know I was mad at that time, if I
ever was mad in my life. I know I came
in and I turned around to shut the door–
that door is not shut once in six months,
you might say—never is shut, and I turned
around to shut the door, and I turned the
catch in it, and this door, this other door
to the outside, was closed; I know that
was closed; and I went up and I shut the
transom-I know he was watching me and
he evidently thought something was com-
ing, and I know he made some remark
or so, and after that I went up and I
grabbed him by the collar, and he saw I
meant business and he did not offer to
fight me, anything of the kind, and I
grabbed him and he went back in his chair,
and I think I must have cursed him some-
what.
Q. You went through the same motions
similar to what he described as having
been gone through by you on the 3d of
December? A. Similar, I know.


362 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. You clutched your fingers? A. I know
I was mad. -
Q. Well, go on. A. Then I know I asked
him all about the circumstances and he re-
fused to tell me first; and then I reached
for my watch, but I don’t know whether I
got it or not; but I said, “Adry, as sure as
there is a world, if you don’t tell me all
about this matter and explain things, I
will take you down to the police station
and give you up”—this is the time he
weakened.
Q. Well, he weakened completely 2 A. He
did.
Q. Told you all about the circumstances?
A. He did, with the exception he would not
tell me who the parties were with him.
Q. But he said there was an accomplice;
others with him? A. I think so, yes, sir.
Q. And, in fact, he told you everything,
but he would not disclose the names of
his accomplice? A. Accomplices; he used
the plural there. I don’t know that he
used the word gang.
Q. You have reason to believe now that
he told you the whole story? A. I did not
believe he told the truth, but he stuck to
it clear to the end; even in the jail there
he said: “Harry, don't tell that on me.”
And I told him: “You can depend upon it
that I will keep it.” Even told Sheriff Ege
in St. Paul.
Q. And yet he insisted, in that conversa-
tion, that he did not know it was you he
was holding up? A. Yes, sir, he did, and
that is what he stuck to to the last in jail.
Q. And he did not know it up to the time
you confronted him with it? A. No-he
said when he started in he did not know it
was meſi but when he started to hold me
up he knew it was me, but it was too
late; he could not stop; he knew my voice.
Q. Do you recall the circumstance of the
hold-up as it actually was? A. Yes, sir, I
do. .
Q. Were you driving in a phaeton with
two ladies that night? A. Yes, sir, Miss
Vedder and Miss Ging.
Q. Well, that man approached you from
the front? A. He came from the left side
of the rig.
Q. What did he say and what did he do?
A. Well, he stood at the horse's head for
about 20 seconds—and you know that is a
good while in a case like that. We didn’t
hardly realize at first—we were laughing,
joking, and so on, and I know the first im-
pression I had was that it was a
policeman who had come to tell us to
shut up, something of that kind—I know
I have often been told that, and I remem-
ber that that was the first impression I
got-I remember that distinctly, he came
up and held the horse's head and seemed to
be looking this way and that way, each
side.
Q. All you could see was the man hold-
ing the horse's head? A. Mighty tough
thing to see the man, but I could see his
handkerchief, the white handkerchief, they
gave it as a black handkerchief, but it was
a white handkerchief. I don't think there
was a word said while he was standing at
the horse's head; we were all trying to get
through our heads what he wanted. I
think I hollered out, “What in thunder do
you want?” or something of that kind, and
he said, “I will show you what I want
damn quick.” And he came up with a re-
volver—I could hear the revolver click and
he pushed it right slab in front of my nose,
so close, well, I don’t say I felt the revol-
ver, but he pushed his revolver in my face
like that, and I had to push back my face
to get out of the way. I know at that
time my hat struck something and fel]
off
Q. There was only one man there? A.
There was only one man there, but he step-
ped out and whistled to the side of the
road.
Q. What did you do? A. I didn't do
anything.
Q. You didn't do anything to protect he
ladies? A. No, sir, I didn’t.
Q. Didn't tell the ladies to do anything?
A. I didn't tell them to do anything—I
know I kept still. -
Q. Did you get out of the buggy? A. I
got out.
Q. Did he make you get out and hold
the horse while he robbed the ladies? A.
He didn’t make me hold the horse, no.
Q. Did the horse stand quiet? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Didn’t make any use of any firearms?
A. No, sir, didn’t have any.
Q. You gave up what you had as an
example to the ladies to do likewise? A. I.
gave up what I had, whether as an ex-
ample or not:
Q. And the fellow went around and took
the trinkets from the ladies? A. No, sir;
he did not. Because Miss Ging was sharp
enough; she put her rings in her mouth.
Q. And what did Miss Vedder do? A.
Well, she took her pocket book; I know
she had $5, $6 or $10 in it, and put it in her
hat; she had an one of these sailor hats;
that is, while this fellow was monkeying
with me.
Q. He didn't monkey with you very
long 2 A. Oh, quite a while.
Q. Did you stand there and let him go
through your pockets? A. I did, yes, sir–
he had a revolver undel my nose all the
time, and I think I would let him do it
again.
Q. He kept a revolver under your nose
with one hand and went through your
pockets with the other? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He took hold of your watch and un-
loosened it? A. No, sir, he took the watch
ànd gave it a jerk like that, and it didn't
come off and he broke the chain.
Q. Well, he took some jewelry from the
ladies, what they didn’t manage to swal-
low 2 A. Oh, he only got one little ring
from Miss Vedder. You see, he was look-
ing for my money—I was carrying a large
amount of money then.
Q. What makes you think he was look-
ing for your money? A. Because I am
satisfied he was. He would not be out
there looking for a little dab like that.
. Do you remember what you were
singing before you were held up? A. Yes,
sir. Something about John Darling—that is
about all there was to it, we had quite a
mania for singing there.
Q. You were singing at the time the man
came up and held you up? A. Yes, sir,
that is what made me think it was a po-
liceman.
Q. Now, where had you been that even-
ing? A. Now, I will tell you and you will
see that it was impossible for me to have
been in it in any way, as you have insinu-
ated.





OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 363
Q. I did not insinuate anything of the
kind. A well, Mr. Nye did. We started
out from the house about half past 7 or 8
o'clock, went down town, and I know wº
were eating ice cream on Nicollet avenue
between Seventh and Eighth streets, and
we came on up Nicollet, and that drive
was proposed just about when we got about
to the corner of Twelfth street and Nicol-
let, right in there, proposed by the ladies.
And we went down there, and to the best
of my recollection to this day, there Was
some joking about it—Miss Vedder, I be-
lieve, actually—I don't know whether she
did or not—but I almost believe she paid
for the rig, because we were not going to
go when it was first suggested, and she
just insisted on it; but after this We went,
and I am satisfied I paid for it; and We
got the rig at half past 8 or 9 o'clock.
Q. And you drove straight out there at
half past 8 o'clock, and it was close to 9
o'clock when this hold-up occurred? A. Yes.
Well, they say the rig was gotten at 9
o'clock, so it must have been half past 9
o'clock when we got out there.
Q. Didn't you just say it was half past
8 when you started? A. Well, I thought it
was, but they say that the rig is charged
on the livery books as having been taken
out at 9 o'clock.
Q. Wasn't you giving us your recollec-
tion this morning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And didn't you say it was half past 8
when you got that rigº A. Yes, sir, I did,
but I say they have it charged on the liv-
ery books as 9 o'clock.
Q. When did you get any information
about that rig being taken out at 9 o'clock
—who told you? A. Why, I think it was
when I was on the stand here about Friday
—I think it was told to me by Mr. Shoe-
maker,
Q. Who told you the rig was gotten
about 9 o'clock that changed your recollec-
tion now? A. I think it was told me by
Mr. Shoemaker while I was on the stand.
Mr. Smith—Yes, I remember it was
stated while he was on the stand.
Mr. Hall–No, it was not, I remember it.
Q. When were you told that the rig was
taken out of the stable at 9 o'clock? A.
When I was on the stand Friday.
Q. You will swear to that positively? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You got that information on Thurs-
day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And not until Thursday? A. No, sir.
Q. Was it sung out in the presence of
the court and jury? A. Yes, sir, it was.
Q. All right, we will remember it and
look it up. Why did you tell Miss Ging
and Miss Vedder not to report that matter
that night? A. Well, because we agreed
between ourselves that it was a good joke,
and we would keep it to ourselves.
Q. And you never made and report to
the police about it at all? A. No, sir.
Q. And you were the chief loser? A.
Yes, sir. There were a number of detect-
ives around probably a number of times
after that.
Q. And it was Miss Vedder who made
the report to the police officers afterwards?
A. I don’t think she made any report to
the police; I think she told somebody, and
it got around that way.
Q. Didn't you take interest enough in
this matter to find out who was your
brother? A. I did, yes, sir.
Q. And didn't you go and look up the
report and try to detect the robbers? A.
No, sir; I didn't because I was trying to
disguise the fact, as long as my brother
was in it. After this was published in the
papers, one or two detectives came around,
I think they were out there and found out
something else, and I says, “Go ahead and
find out.”
Q. Don't you know that Miss Vedder
described the man as a tall man with a
heavy, dark, mustache? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you talked with Miss Vedder
about this since? A. I don’t think I have
mentioned it since May.
Q. Where is Miss Vedder now? A. I.
don’t know.
Mr. Erwin–She is out of the city.
Mr. Hall–No, she is not.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir; she is. We found
out that she was out of the city and we
have been telegraphing her to come back,
and we expect her back today noon.
Did you ever have any other talk
with your brother Adry about this affair?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When was that? A. I think the next
time after the talk in the office—
Q. Well, that is the day upon which you
describe that awful exhibition of his having
no conscience? A. Yes, sir, when he told
me he could kill people right and left and
his conscience didn't bother him.
Q. Did you not, in the month of Septem-
ber sometime, while you were trying to
prevail upon your brother to do an act
which you wanted him to do as a sample
of how clever he could do a job, tell
him, “Now, for instance, I engineered the
hold up, though it was a failure; didn’t
come out right, the fellow, or the fool,
stood so long at the horse’s head that the
girls had a chance to get their diamonds
in their mouths and swallow them, and get
their money out of the way—their dia-
monds in their mouths and in front of
their dresses—and that you had planned
the thing and that you had gone out there
and that you gave a signal by singing a
song, which was to be a signal to the fel-
lows that they were to hold you up, and
that you understood or believed that the
women had some money with them that
night?” A. No, sir.
Mr. Erwin-I ask that the time and place
be fixed.
Mr. Hall–I fixed it in September.
The Court—Fix the place of the conver-
sation.
Q. This was in your father's office at a
time when you were trying to prevail on
Adry to do a job for you? A. There never
was such a thing in the world; I never had
any such talk with him in the world.
Q. You got your watch? A. Yes, sir.
Q: Why didn’t you ever dispose of that
watch or exhibit it since then? A. On ac-
count of his prevailing on me to keep it
quiet. If his wife ever saw me have that
watch she would know in a minute it was
the watch I lost in that hold up.
Q. How would that implicate Adry? A.
Well, it would necessitate me showing how
I got it.
Q. Is that the reason why you were care-
ful to take that watch and put it out of
the way on the 1st of September, for the
first time? A. The reason I did that, he
has been talking about that watch, he
would say, “Have got that away some-








364 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
wheres?” until I was tuckered out com-
pletely—until I says, “The watch is away,
you never will see it any more.”
Q. You told him a lie? A. Yes, sir. I did,
I was tuckered out.
Q. The watch was in your possession all
the time? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hall—I think that is all I desire to
cover in the cross-examination this after-
noon; there are other questions I shall
want to review later, but that is all for
the present.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. What did you put that watch in Eus-
tis Bros.' for, Mr. Hayward? A. To have
it cleaned up. -
Q. Now, go on and give a full history
of your transaction with Mr. Goodsell, the
collection of this seven hundred dollars
and all about it? A. Well, before he got
that loan he had written to me that he
needed money and was hard up and wanted
money to continue his schooling. Well, I
loaned him money, I don’t remember how
much, and when I got the loan for him,
got the money, right at the time or in a
few days of it, I went down to Chicago
and paid him some, part of it. And then
there was an arrangement between us
made whereby he was going to loan me
the money—I don’t think there was any
time specified; I presume the time was
specified, there was probably a note, and I
think all the notes we have had were 60
days. But any way the idea was whenever
he wanted any money he was to write me
and I would send it to him; and that is the
way it continued; whenever he wanted any
money he wrote me and I either sent it
to him or went down, and it has been going
that way ever since.
Q. That is all I want on the subject. Did
your brother tell you in the course of your
conversation, when you surprised him with
your watch, told you where he got his rigº
A. Yes, sir. He told me he got it at the
Great Western livery stable in the post-
office court.
Q. Now, you put this watch in Eustis
Bros.' jewelry store on the morning of the
3d of December? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Blixt testified he gave you that
watch in the afternoon sealed up in a tin
box, soldered up in a tin box on that
afternoon. A. I can tell you something
about a tin box that answers that descrip-
tion pretty close—where I saw it.
Q. Did Blixt ever have possession of that
watch? A. Never.
Q. How do you account for Mr. Blixt
knowing that you had a watch with a deer
or a horse on it, he could not tell which,
a gold watch? A. I cannot account for it
only in one way; my brother must have
told him; that is the only way I can see it.
Q. How can you account for Mr. Blixt
putting that watch transaction and the box
along with the roll of bills which he testi-
fied to in his statement, and a lot of one
dollar bills whech he testified here to on
the stand. Did you ever show him any
one dollar bills? A. Blixt—never. I loaned
by brother a hundred dollars the first part
of November and since that time he has
paid me sixty dollars of it; and I dare say
of that sixty dollars, forty dollars of it has
been in dollar bills. I remember distinctly
of his paying me fifteen one dollar bills
once, ten another time, and I think five
on two different occasions. I am not sure
about the two fives, but the fifteen and the
ten I remember distinctly, because I got
rid of them.
Q. Is there any way that Mr. Blixt could
have known about that watch with a deer
on it or a horse on it, except from you or
from Adry.
Mr. Hall–That is objected to as asking
for a conclusion.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Where was this watch from the time
of the scene with Adry until the time you
put it in Eustis Bros.’ ” In my safe. I guess
it was—I think it was in my trunk awhile–
in my safe.
Q. Did Blixt ever see it? A. Blixt never
saw it that I know of. He could not have
seen it since I had it—impossible.
RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. What safe did you keep that watch
in 2 A. The small safe at the office.
Q. That safe is left open lots of times?
A. Never left open.
Q. That was one thing you never trusted
Adry to, the combination of your safe; is
that so? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you afraid Adry would get hold
of your watch? A. Why, I did not know.
Q. You have been very careful to keep
that watch where Adry could not get it?
A.. I don’t know. It has been where he
could get it.
Q. Now, is it not a fact you have been
trying to get hold of some of the dollar
bills that you knew Adry had in his safety
deposit vault since your arrest? A. No,
Slr.
Q. Didn't you send Goodsell to Adry,
claiming that he came from you, to try to
get some of those dollar bills that are in
Adry's safety deposit vault? A. I did this;
I wrote an order for Goodsell on Adry for
$40 a week or two ago.
Q. For these $1 bills? A. Not necessar-
ily $1 bills; any money he felt disposed to
let him have; but I would just as soon have
the dollar bills as anything else.
Mr. Erwin. That was simply an order
for Goodsell to collect a bill from Adry due
you?
The Witness. Yes, sir, that was just it
exactly. I knew Adry had dollar bills, a
big roll of them.
Mr. Hall. You handed them to him 2 A.
I did not hand them to him.
M. D. Wilson
Recalled. Examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Do you know a man by the name of
James Ward? A. I do not, sir.
Mr. Erwin. Is James Ward in the house?
(James Ward here stood up.)
Q. That man standing up there? A. I.
know him by sight.
Q. Do you remember his coming to you
to sell a log chain? A. I do, sir.
Q. Two weeks ago last Friday? A.
Well, I could not tell you exactly the date,
but I think it was along about that time,
probably.
Q. Did you have a talk with him at your
stable about this case? A. I did not–
Mr. Hall. Wait a moment. That is ob-
jected to as incompetent, irrelevant and
immaterial; apparently an attempt to im-
peach his own witness.
Mr. Erwin. May it please the court, you
recollect that he is not my witness as to
who was in the buggy; but he was their








OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
365
witness under my objection. They made
him their own witness. I asked him if he
saw that rig that night and he said he did;
I asked him where he saw it and he told
me, and I stopped there; and they took
him on cross-examination and asked him
who was in the rig. I objected and the
court overruled my objection and I took an
exception to it. They asked him to point
out the person and he pointed out the de-
fendant. I objected to that and the court
overruled my objection and I excepted. And
he was not my witness on that matter. But
even if he was my witness, under the
ruling of the supreme court of this state it
would be highly compentent and proper.
The Court—Well, go on and ask him the
question. The objection is overruled.
Q. In the course of that conversation
with Mr. James Ward, the gentleman who
just stood up, and in talking about the
case, did you say, in speaking of Harry
Hayward, “They cannot do nothing to him;;
I saw Adry out riding with her that night,
out on the Boulevard.” Did you so state?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know Mr. F. S. Danforth? A.
Yes, sir, I know him, Frank Danforth.
Q. Did you have a conversation with him
a few days after the murder of the 3d, at
301 Oneida Block? A. I could not say that
I didn’t, and I would not say that I did.
Q. Did you have a conversation with him
telling him all what you saw in relation
to this murder and particularly what you
saw upon the Kenwood Boulevard? A. I
would not say that I did. I would not say
I did not.
Q. Did you not have a conversation at
that time, a few days after the homicide,
at 301 Oneida Block with him, in which he
asked you the question if you could recog-
nize the man who was in the buggy? And
in which you answered, “No, I could not,
it was too dark.” A. No, sir, I was not in
the town for three weeks afterwards; I left
on Tuesday night and I was away in Mich-
ichan for three weeks with a car load of
horses.
Q. Did you have any conversation with
him 2
Mr. Hall–Objected to as too indefinite.
The Court-The objection is sustained .
Q. Did you at any time during the month
of December have any conversation with
him?
Mr. Hall–Objected to as too indefinite.
Mr. Erwin–Well, you asked the same
question of Mr. Hayward.
Mr. Hall—Well, you didn't object.
The Court—Well, he is the defendant and
this is a witness. The objection is sus-
tained.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I will ask Mr. Dan-
forth to be sworn so that he can identify
the place.
( A bailiff was here sent out to find Mr.
Danforth.)
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, Mr.
Danforth it seems has gone away.
The Court—Well, the court is not going
to be bothered with witnesses; if they are
not here, you will have to get out an at-
tachment and send for them.
Mr. Erwin–Well, it is half past four and
the attachment would not be returned un-
til morning. I will ask for an attachment
for Mr. Danforth to be here in the morn-
ing. Mr. Wilson, you can be excused un-
til ten o'clock tomorrow morning.
Harold C. Stevens
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Mr. Stevens, how old are you? A.
Twenty-three.
Q. You're a single man, are you? A.
Yes, sir. -
Q. Do you recall where you were on tne
night of Dec. 3? A: I do. I was at the
Lake of the Isles and Lake Calhoun, and
on the route between the two.
Q. which lake did you go to first, Lake
of the Isles or Lake Calhounº A. Lake of
the Isles.
Q. I don’t care anything about before
you got to Lake of the Isles. Please
point out how you went from Lake of the
isles to Lake Calhoun ? A. Well, I left
the lake just where those dredge boats are
there, right where this little road starts
out to go to Lake Calhoun, and I started
to go to Lake Calhoun, and on my way I
met some people and asked them if there
were many people over to Lake Calhoun,
and they said there were not very many, 1.
had better go back; they were two ladies
and we went down a little farther and then
we went back to these dredge boats.
Q. Can you tell approximately what time
you arrived at Lake street? A. Well, the
gentleman I was with looked at his watch
some time before we left the Lake of the
Isles, some time, I don't just know when,
and by the moonlight he made out it was
four or five minutes of 8 o’clock, some-
thing like that.
Q. So, when you got down there at the
junction of the Lake of the Isles boule-
vard and Lake stret, what time would you
estimate it to be? A. I should say five ºr
ten minutes past 8.
Q. Well, if anything, did you see when
you came down Lake street? A. I saw a
buggy coming down Lake street from the
direction of the icehouse, when I saw at
it was about at Bob Bader's place.
Q. That carriage was going which way 7
A. It was coming towards us; coming to-
wards Hennepin, coming towards town on
Lake street. It was a top buggy, rather
narrow, and, I should say, a three-quarter
seat, with side curtains on, and the top
up. A light colored horse, medium sized
horse.
Q. Was the carriage going rapidly tº
slow 2 A. Rapidly, or it was coming rag-
idly towards us; and I remarked it as 1
heard it go across the street car tracks
up by Bader's, and I remarked that the rig
was coming in a hurry to Mr. Woods, the
man that was with me, and he remarked
it was a fire, and it got closer to us and
we saw a man in the rig.
Q. Which side of the buggy was the
man sitting on? A. I think on the right
hand side; not exactly to the right, but to
the right of the center. He appeared to be
a thin faced man with a light mustache
and beard. The last time I saw the car-
riage it was going around Lake stree:
very rapidly.
Q. Was there any dimunition or increase
of speed as the carriage came around the
corner, coming toward Lake street? A
Yes, sir, there is a curve in the road there
and there is a piece of board nailed up
there evidently to warn people from driy-
ing straight ahead and getting into the
marsh, and it also casts a shadow there,
and he evidently saw it, and pulled up a
little, and he started off again.


366 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Q. Holding the lines? A. Yes,
both hands.
Q. Did you notice whether there was a
whip or not? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember whether it was a
horse of uniform color or light and dark?
A. Well, mostly light—I should say it was
light all through.
Q. Have you been subpoenaed here? A.
I have; both by the state and the defnse.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Now, just where was the point you
and your companion were standing when
this rig passed you? A. Well, we had just
got off Lake street onto this little road that
runs into it here; I think it was down on
Iºnox's avenue.
Q. Well, whereabouts in reference to
Bader's place were you and your compan-
ion standing 2 A. Well, we were nearly
two blocks away, this side.
Q. Did you see anything of a young girl,
Gertie Brown, and a man by the name of
Springstead that evening? A. Not as I
know of; I don’t know.
Q. Aren't you the two men who were
standing at that road as those two people
went by ? A. No, sir.
Q. Weren't you standing at that place
as a couple of young people went by, and
they noticed you and stood there? A. No,
sir; not as I know of. I can tell you in
reference to the couple if you want me to.
Q. Well, what do you recollect? A.
Well, after we had seen this rig we went
up to the boulevard and stood there and
looked down on the skaters.
Mr. Smith–What boulevard.
The Witness—Calhoun boulevard; and
there was not very many skaters there,
and we concluded we would go on, and
there is a house that sets back there and
a gentleman came up and says, “Can I get
a drink here?” and we says “Yes,” there
is a pump behind there, and we went and
got a drink and came down the boulevard
again, and as we came down we saw a
couple sitting on that little dock there, I
guess it is a private walk, because there
was only a couple of plank runnig out,
and they were seeming to have a good
time and we noticed them and either Mr.
Wood or I said something to each other
and this couple took it up; and as there
was some iceboats there, we made an ex-
cuse to walk down and see who they were,
but their backs were towards us so we
didn't see them. And they got up and
walked away, and we walked in the same
direction behind them; we walked down
the same road and went back to the Lake
of the Isles again.
Q. Then, you were standing by that
same road as that young couple went up
towards Hennepin? A. Yes, sir, but I say
they were ahead of us—they walked away
from us and we were standing right by
them there and followed them right off di-
rectly.
Q. Is it not your best belief, from the
testimony you have heard, that you and
Mr. Woods were the two men standing at
that road that leads to the Lake of the
Isles, at the foot of Lake street, as this
couple went by ?
Mr. Smith–That is objected to.
Q. You were on the north side of Lake
sir; in
street? A. I was near the center of the
Street.
Q. You didn’t go on the sidewalk? A.
No, sir.
Q. You went along on the road and the
young people went on by ? A. They were
ahead of us, they did not go by us, because
we were never ahead of them.
Q. And you turned up this road and
went to the Lake of the Isles? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. That was some little time after this
buggy had passed you? A. Yes, sir, prob-
ably some 10 minutes at least.
Q. Now, when did you first tell anybody
that you were able to describe or see the
figure or the features of a man in that
flying buggy? A. The next morning. I
told it to my father and mother.
Q. Did you ever compare your recollec-
tion as to this matter with Mr. Woods?
A. Well, I cannot say whether I did or
not with him, the same words.
Q. Did you describe the figure you saw
in the buggy that time? A. I don’t know
whether I did or not.
Q. Is it not a fact you have described
that figure in that buggy to nobody until a
few days ago? A. I would not say that I
did.
Q. Yet you and he talked about it a few
days after this occurrence? A. I would not
say we did; he came up to the engine
house a few days ago–
Q. This buggy was going at a rapid rate
of speed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you mean to say you can tell the
cut of a man’s face as he flies by you in a
hastening buggy at 8 o'clock at night on a
road out in the suburbs? A. Not always.
But I think I can tell it as well there as in
town.
Q. Well, was there any light there? A.
There was a light there. The light is right
at this turn of the road.
Q. You are positive the electric light was
lit? A. I am positive.
Q. It was 8 o’clock and 5 or 10 minutes
when you saw them? A. Yes, sir.
The Court—Did you know the couple that
went up there?
The Witness—I knew Frank Springstead.
The Court–Was he one of them?
The Witness—I don't know who they
were; I didn’t see anything but heir backs.
Q. How far away were they from you?
A. Oh, about 50 feet when they walked
a Way.
Q. And as you walked up the street they
were much nearer to you? A. Well, I got
between them and the electric light.
Q. The electric light is right there at
the corner, at the turn? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were they? A. They sat down
here. (Indicating.)
Q. Then, when you stood here looking at
the buggy the electric light was behind the
buggy? A. No, sir; when I saw him it
was before he got to the electric light.
Q. Was you nearer to young Springstead
than that? A. I was on this side of the
street, close to the sidewalk.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Did you at any time that evening go
up by the ice house? A. No, sir. The
nearest I was to the ice house was on
Thirty-first street by the Lurline boat club
there.
Q. You were not at Bader's house that








OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL.
367
night? A. No, sir.
Q. Were there any electric lights lit on
Lake street any further than the lake? A.
I think ther is one on Humboldt avenue,
or somewhere along there.
Q. Will you state how you were dressed
that evening, in reference to an overcoat?
A. I had none on.
Q. Did you see a police ambulance going
out in that part of the city that evening?
A. I saw a patrol wagon going out to-
wards Lake street at 8:25, according to Mr.
Woods’ watch.
H. Percy Woods
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Are you acquainted with the witness
Stevens who preceded you on the witness
stand? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you with him on the evening of
December 3d in the vicinity of Lake Cal-
houn 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see that horse and buggy
described by him on that evening? A. Yes,
sir. The wheels ran about three feet from
my toes, just as you cross over from the
Lake of the Isles to Lake street. When I
first saw the horse and buggy it was just
about 30 feet before you get to the Lurline
boat house.
Q. And at what rate of speed was it go-
ing? A. At a very fast trot. It proceeded
down Lake street.
Q. And you were at the junction of the
boulevard and Lake street at the time it
passed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you accompany Stevens from the
Lake of the Isles to Lake Calhoun ? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go near the ice house at
Bader's place? A. Not any nearer than
the Lurline boat house.
Q. Will you describe the buggy you saw
that night? A. As near as I can describe
it, it was a top buggy, but I could not say
whether the sides were on or not; I could
not describe the horse, I did not notice the
horse.
Q: Did you notice the man? A. N.
I did not. It was very dark º:
*** was sitting, and I just noticed the lines
drawn tight and the moon seemed to re-
* on the line; that is the picture I have
º mind and it will always remain
Q. He drove by you? At
pace? A. Yes sir.
Q: Did it continue ra id
around the corner, º:
It seemed to be about the same. - -
Q. You went down wi -
the Lurline boat º
that, grade, I think, about toº
or Thirty-Second street that fi rty-First
the left. - rst street on
Q. How long did you st
shore of Lake Calhoun: **, º:
"..." four or five minutes. Judge
... And then you went bac
of the Isles and then over º
A. Yes sir, directly as we Went over pln
Q: When you got back ovº, Hennepin
did you se what stevens has jº.
A patrol wagon? A yes si. ºped.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall. ON
Q. Was Stevens standing by your side
as the buggy first came into view, and
passed you? A. Yes sir.
Q. And except for better eyes, he had
quite a rapid
no better opportunity of seeing than you
didº A. No sir.
Q. How close to your side did he stand?
A. I could not say exactly; we were kind
of in the shadow of the trees there, you
know.
Q. Were you both in the shadow of the
trees there? A. Yes sir.
Q. Were any trees intervening between
you and the corner of Lake street and the
boulevard? A. I don’t remember about
that; I cannot tell.
Q. And it was some distance before the
rig got to the corner that you first saw
it distinctly? A. Yes sir.
Q. And did you follow it with your eye
as it approached the place where you
were 2 A. Yes sir.
Q. At that time were you and Stevens
standing still? A. No sir; we were walk-
ing.
Q. Yoy were walking towards Lake
street and you turned the corner there?
A. Yes sir; except when the rig got 40
or 50 feet from us I told him to look out
and I asked him to let the rig go by; we
were walking on this boulevard towards
Lake street at that time. The rig went by
us just at the junction of Lake street and
the boulevard.
Q. Oh, you had just got out to the cor-
ner as it went by- A. Yes sir.
Q. And when the rig came in sight there
you were approaching towards Lake
stret? A. Yes sir.
Q. And you walked from where you
wer up to here? A. Yes sir.
Q. As the rig traveled to the same point
A. Exactly.
Q. And so the rig was going in one di-
rection for a while, while you were going
in the other? A. Yes sir.
Q. And you would have to look to your
right to see it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The only picture that is left upon
your mind is the glint of the light of the
moon upon those lines, and a pair of hands
sticking out holding the lines? A. Yes,
sir. I could not see any hand at all,
though, I only saw the lines as though
they were held up, comparatively high.
Q. Did you see anything of that young
couple, a girl and a young man companion
with her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time was that? A. We met
this fast driving buggy at 8 o’clock, or a
few minutes after, possibly, and we pro-
ceeded up the boulevard to Thirty-first
street; we hesitated there a little while
and got a drink of water, possibly stayed
there four or five minutes and we turned
and came back the way we went up.
Q. Were you on the north side of the
house? A. No, sir, on the left hand side
of the house as you approach it going out
Lake street. We hesitated there about five
minutes to examine some iceboats there;
and over to our left, about 70 feet, was
this couple, taking off their skates. They
took off their skates and started down the
street, going toward Hennepin avenue on
the right hand side of the street. We pro-
ceeded behind them slightly to the left of
the center of the street going toward Hen-
nepin avenue, and we proceeded on that
angle until we got to the corner of the
boulevard and Lake street, until we got
to where we met the fast driving buggy,





368
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
and there we hesitated a moment.
stood there probably a minute.
Q. And the young couple walked along?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were looking at hem? A. Yes,
slº.
Q. And they looked at you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you seen the witness Spring-
stead and the girl Gertie Brown? A. No,
sir, I have not.
Q. Have you seen their pictures in the
newspaper?
Mr. Smith—He would certainly recognize
them by those pictures. (Laughter.)
The Witness—The only recollection I have
is when I read the newspapers, most every
word, I said: “We are the fellows that
they saw.”
Q. And you reported this to the state's
attorney? A. No, sir, I didn't. I just sim-
ply told some of my friends the next morn-
ing, and my friends must have told some of
the state's attorneys. -
Q. From their testimony as you have
heard it and the report in the newspapers,
it seemed to coincide with your appearance
that night? A. It seems so, except it stat-
ed we came from the direction of the ice-
house, and we had no long overcoats on
that night, we didn’t have any overcoats
on that night.
Mr. Smith–Neither of you?
The Witness—No, sir.
Q. And the hour was the same? A. I
don’t know what time they gave, but I
should judge it was 15 or 20 minutes after
3 when we came along there.
Q. Did you ever compare your recollec-
tion as to who you saw in the buggy, with
Stevens? A. I have an impression I did;
I have an impression of having a conversa-
tion with him about this buggy, that that
was probably the murderer in that buggy.
Q. At that time did Stevens claim, or did
he ever claim to recollect or recognize the
features of the figure in the buggy?
Mr. Erwin–That is objected to as in-
competent, irrelevant and immaterial, no
foundation laid and not proper cross-exam-
ºnation.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
A. I have an impression that Mr. Stev-
ens never has described the man sitting in
that buggy to me. Only he said the same
thing I did, that that man seemed to have
those lines drawn tight, and seemed to be
sitting on the right hand side of the buggy.
Q. Did you at that time see the form of
the features, or have any glance of them
at all.”
The Court—He stated two or three times
he did not.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Did you try to see the man in the car-
riage or was it simply because your at-
tention was not drawn to it? A. No, sir,
I did not try to see him; but the picture I
got of the man was that he had his over-
coat drawn up around him. It seems to me
that he had his overcoat drawn up around
him like this and he had his hands up like
this. (Indicating.)
Q. And you saw the gleams on the lines?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the moon shining that night, or
was it dark that night? A. Yes, sir, the
moon was shining; pretty nearly new
moon.
We
Q. Have you any way of knowing
whether your watch was correct that
night? A. No, sir, but I know it was cor-
rect within two or three minutes.
Q. What kind of a watch have you? A.
A Waterbury.
Q. And you say you had on no overcoat?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You went with Mr. Stevens until you
saw the patrol wagon? A. Yes, sir, we kept
down Hennepin avenue to Central Park
and went skating there.
Q. How long after you saw this couple,
at the junction of Lake street and Lake of
the Isles boulevard before you saw the
patrol wagon? A. I should think it must
have been 15 or 20 minutes.
Q. When did you have any conversation
with Mr. Stevens, the preceding witness,
with regard to this horse and buggy you
saw there, that is, how long after Dec. 3
very next evening. I have always stated
was it? A. It might have possibly been the
I could not tell the features of the man.
I have told Mr. Stevens I could not describe
the features of the man, I could not see
who was in the buggy; could not tell him
if I saw him.
Q. That is, you did not notice him? A.
I did not.
Q. Now, did you hear any shots that
evening? A. I have an impression I did,
just as I looked at my watch, just before
we left the Lake of the Isles—just before
we met this fast driving buggy.
Q. You recollect any more than one? A.
I do not, sir.
(The court took a recess until 10 o'clock
a. m., Feb. 27, 1895.)
MORNING SESSION, FEB, 27.
- Walter A. Luttgen
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What was your business last Decem-
ber, December 3d? A. I was a watchmaker
at Eustis Bros.
Q. State whether on the 3d day of De-
cember the defendant, Harry Hayward,
placed a watch in your store to be mended
or fixed up? A. I will state that as near
as the records show, that he did on that
day. I would not say as to the time ex-
actly. As I recollect, I think it was in
the forenoon; I could not say positively.
Q. Have you that watch? A. I have.
Q. Produce it.
(Witness here produced the watch.)
Q. Any charges on that. A. Yes.
Q. How much? A. $2.50.
Mr. Erwin–I offer the watch in evidence.
Mr. Nye-No objection.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Mr. Nye–Let me see it.
Q. What record have you? A. The only
record we have of the receipt of the watch
is simply the date marked on the tag. It
is not marked any particular minute. We
simply put down the date, whether first,
second, or third, and if the watch is prom-
ised for any particular time the date it is
promised is also put down in the upper
left hand corner. This was marked “3,”
indicating the 3d of the month; and as
near as I can reccollect from the record
in the book, I judge it to be Dec. 3d.
You are positive that means the 3d
of the month; it meant the 3d of December?
A. I am positive, yes, sir.
Q. How do you fix the time of day? A.
I don't fix it. I have an impression it










OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
369
was in the forenoon; I would not say pos-
itively.
Mr. Erwin–You know it was not after 5
or 6 o'clock in the afternoon? A. Yes,
sir,
J. W. Witherspoon
was recalled and examined by Mr. Shu-
maker.
Q. You have already testified in this case
you are the elevator boy in the Oneida.
Block? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Do you remember sending for a mes-
senger for Harry Hayward on or about the
last of November. A. I do.
Q. State what was the first thing said
to you on that subject. A. Hairy came
out and rung for the elevator, and I went
up, and he said to me, “Jack, you can send
for a messenger?”
Q. Did the messenger come?
he came to the elevator.
Q. Where did you take him? A. He
said, “Where do they want a messenger?”
I said up on the top floor, Mr. Hayward.
I think it was the Saturday before-this
homicide or murder, whatever you call it.
I think it was Saturday before that.
Mr. Shumaker–Are yau positive in your
own mind whether it was Friday or Salt-
urday. A. I could not swear to it, but I
think it was.
Q. Would you know the messenger if
you saw him again? A. I don’t know;
there are so many coming in there that 1
don't know that I would.
Mr. Erwin–You are not positively cer-
tain that it was on Saturday?
Objected to as leading.
Q. I will ask whether there was any oth-
er day than the latter part of that week,
or only that one time that this thing oc-
curred? A. Only the one time that I can
remember of.
Q. If that should prove to be on Friday,
that would be the time, would it? A. I
should think so.
Ludwig Goldsmith
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your name? A. Ludwig
Goldsmith.
Q. Where did you live last November?
A. No. 520 Nicollet avenue, just across
from the Syndicate Block on Nicollet.
Q. Did you know Miss Ging in her life
time? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. Did she call on you at any time in
November? A. It must have been in the
last of November. She did not call on me
exactly. I met her in the hall; it was
about the last of November, and she asked
me for the agent of the house, that is the
proprietor, and I pointed out his office.
And about two days afterwards she came
out of my parlors while I came down to
the work room, and she asked me what
time she could see that agent, that she
had been there several times and could
not see him.
Q. That is, Mr. Turtelotteº A. Yes, sir,
and I told her from 9 to 12 in the forenoon,
and 2 to 5 in the afternoon, and at the
same time I asked her whether I could tell
her anything. She said, “Yes, tell him to
come over to room 65 or 64 in the Syndicate
Block.” She did not mention the name.
I knew her. I made a garment for her
three years ago.
Q. She asked who was the agent for the
building? A. Yes, sir.
A. Yes,
Q. How far was that from Strauss &
Murray's establisment, this firm? A: I
think it is right next door to it.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Anybody with her on those occasions?
A. There was a young lady with her.
Q. Was that Miss Ireland? A: I didn't
know the lady.
Mr. Nye (to Miss Ireland)—Miss Ireland,
will you stand up?
(Miss Ireland here stood up.)
The Witness—I believe that was the lady.
I could not swear to it. I think so.
Adelina Lawrence
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Have you a daughter, Mrs. Lawrence,
living in this city by the name of Mrs.
Ralph Hawkins? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Your daughter's husband's parents
came to live with you about the middle of
November last? A. Yes, sir, they were
with us after they broke up their home for
three or four weeks before they started for
California. I understood you meant my
daughter when she came.
Q. Now, had Miss Ging done any work
for those old people? A. Yes, she had.
Q. I will ask you whether she had been
in the house sewing in the afternoon? A.
Yes, it was in the month of November.
Q. Several days in that month? A. ell,
three or four certainly.
Q. The last time she was there in the af-
ternoon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recollect the conversation had
between Mrs. Hawkins, junior, yourself
and Miss Ging? A. I do.
Q. Now, state what, if anything, Miss
Ging said about going into business upon a
larger scale, what she said of her inten-
tions.
Objected to as incompetent and immater-
ial and not the best evidence.
Mr. Erwin–I offer to show her declara-
tion that she was going to have the store
opposite the Syndicate block.
The Court—I think you can get better
evidence than that.
Mr. Erwin–Better evidence than her own
declarations?
The Court—Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Where can I get it?
The Court—You can show whether she
endeavored to rent the block. I will allow
you to show it. -
The Witness—It happened in this way.
We were in our sewing room upstairs,
Miss Ging and my daughter and Mrs.
Hawkins and myself I had just brought
a dress into the room to ask Miss Ging
about remodelling it. My daughter turned
to her and said, “Kitty, that reminds me
I have heard that you were going into the
dressmaking and millinery business.” She
replied that she was. My daughter asked
her, as nearly as I can remember, if she
was going to have things very nice. She
said she was; she was going to have a very
fine store, and was going to make bonnets,
and my daughter asked her if she was go-
ing to make trimmings. She said no, she
was going to have a trimmer. My daughter
asked her if it was anyone in the city.
She said no, someone out of the city was
going to work for her.
Q. Did she state the place where she was
going to have the store? A. She spoke
about the store opposite where she was,

370
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
opposite the Syndicate block.
Q. Do you remember how close that was
to Thanksgiving in November? A. I think
it was the same week.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Do you recall whether he said how
soon she expected to go into business? A.
No, sir, I do not remember that.
Q. She did not say that she had investi-
gated the subject to any extent whatever?
A.. I think what I related was the Whole
conversation.
Q. Do you know whether, as a matter of
fact, the millinery business, or purchase of
a millinery stock at that season of the
year would be very unprofitable. A. I.
never gave that any consideration.
Q. Do you know whether or not a stock
of millinery, such as she would be likely
to purchase in that part of the city, would
be worth more than 50 cents on the dollar?
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant,
and not cross-examination.
Objection sustained.
Faith G. Hawkins
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
. You are the daughter of the lady
last upon the stand? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you acquainted with Miss Cath-
erine Ging in her life time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did she do some work at the house
in the afternoons of November? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you recollect whether on the last
afternoon that she was there there was
business upon a larger scale, and where?
A. Yes, sir, she said she expected to rent
a store out of the Syndicate Block, where
she was then.
Q. Do you recollect whether she was
there the afternoon, that is, the latter part
of the afternoon? A. She came home with
Mother Hawkins and took lunch with us,
and she was there until 20 minutes to 7.
She would not stay to dinner. Dinner was
later that night; generally have it at half
past 6. She seemed to be in a hurry. I ask-
ed her what was the matter, that I could
give her a little lunch. She said she was
anxious to get to the Syndicate Block,
that she had to go to her rooms there,
and the elevator stopped running at 7
o'clock, and then it was just 20 minutes to
7 when she left. She spoke about it be-
cause she just missed a car and wondered
whether she would have time to get down
or not.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. On the 27th she remained until about
7 in the evening? A. Until about 20 min-
utes to 7
Q. What time did she come? A. I
think she reached the house about 11:15.
Q. She remained continuously at the
house from that time until 20 minutes to 72
A. Yes.
Fred Horst
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Where are you employed; where is
your place of business? A. My place of
business is 113 to 117 Third street south.
Q. What was your business there? A.
Livery.
Q. Have you got a record of the trans-
actions? A. Yes.
Q. Turn to April 27th. What book is
this that I have in my hand? A. That is
the register.
Q. Is it the register of Legg & Mitchell?
A. No, we never changed the name on it.
We bought out Legg & Mitchell.
Q: What firm is this? A. Van Schaick
& Horst.
Q. Turn to the date Friday, April 27th,
'94; I show you an entry marked: “Name,
Hayward. Team, Frank; vehicle, buggy;
destination, not marked; departed, 9
o'clock; no minutes; returned 10 o'clock
thirty. Price $1.50. Cash paid $1.50,” and
the amount charged. A. That is the
charge, and it was paid the next day.
Q. I will ask you what entry that was?
A. That was Adry Hayward.
Q. Adry Hayward did what that day? A.
He came and got that horse and buggy as
that is marked there.
Q: Who did he get it of 2 A. Of the
foreman. I was there when it was hooked
up.
Q- Did you see it taken out? A. Yes.
Mr. Erwin–I offer this record in evidence
º date of April 27th, '94, Friday, April
th.
Mr. Nye-Do you know whose writing
that is? A. That is my foreman's.
Q: What is his name? A. His name is
Will Van Schaick.
Q. That is a correct record? A. Of this
business, yes, sir. Every day a little goes
out or comes in.
Q. And the particular time and every-
thing? A. Yes.
Q. And when it returned? A. Yes, and
when it is returned and the price, etc.
Mr. Erwin-Nine p. m. it was taken? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Who brought the horse back? A. Mr.
Hayward.
Q. Was he alone when he got it? A.
Yes, sir.
Q: What kind of a buggy did he get? A.
A piano box buggy.
How many people would it hold? A.
Two.
Q. Did he bring the same buggy back?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether anybody come
back with him? A. No, sir; I saw nobody
with him.
Q. Had the horse been driven hard; was
it warm? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you recollect whether there was
any peculiarity about the horse coming in?
A. No, sir; the horse was in good shape
when it came in.
Faith G. Hawkins
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Miss Hawkins, did you meet Miss
Catherine Ging in the late summer or
early autumn of '94, and in the conversa-
tion was the matter of the hold up of
Harry Hayward, Miss Vetter and herself
mentioned by Miss Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You may state what that conversa-
tion between you and Miss Ging was rela-
tive to the hold up—that is, what Miss
Ging said to you?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant, immaterial and hearsay.
The Court—The objection sustained.
Mr. Smith–If the court please, I desire
to prove by this witness–
The Court—Well, you need not state it;
I have sustained the objection. If you
want to put it in writing you may do so.















of THE HAY wa RD MURDER TRIAL. 371
Mr. Smith—Well, I am not doing much
writing myself now, but I will step up to
the reporter and have him do so.
(Mr. Smith here dictated to the reporter,
within hearing of the court and Mr. Nye,
the following offer:)
Mr. Smith—we desire to prove by this
witness that Miss Ging stated to her on
this occasion substantially as follows:
Q. “Poor Mr. Hayward, we coaxed him
to carry us on that ride that night, and
then he lost his watch and money; I lost
nothing except my ear rings, which were
dropped outside; that was not Mr. Hay-
ward's fault, but the highwayman did not
get it.”
Mr. Nye-That is objected to as incompe-
tent, irrelevant and immaterial and hear-
say.
The Court–Objection is sustained.
Mr. Smith–Exception noted. That is all,
Mrs. Hawkins.
E. H. Goodsell
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Were you requested by him to look
for that bottle of whisky? A. I was. In
the bath room, in his mother's flat, I found
a bottle.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial and too remote.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
There has been an opportunity to put a
dozen bottles of whisky around there—it is
too remote entirely.
Q. What kind of a bottle of whisky was
it?
Mr. Nye-Well, objected to as immate-
rial.
The Court—The objection is sustained at
present. You will have to show it was
discovered there soon after.
Mr. Erwin–Well, your honor, I will have
to make an offer to get it on the record.
The Court—You may do so.
(Mr. Erwin here dictated to the reporter
the following offer:)
Mr. Erwin–I offer to show that this wit-
ness, after Harry Hayward's testimony,
and in accordance with Harry Hayward's
suggestion, went to his mother's flat and
there found on top of the water tank at-
tached to the closet, a bottle of whisky,
a half pint of whisky, on which was a
label, “Monogram Rye,” with the street
and the name of the place on the label,
and offers to produce the whisky with this
witness, a bottle of whisky. The bottle had
a screw top and was full of whisky, and I
offer to produce the whisky with this evi-
dence.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial, too remote, the
- defense not having connected it in any way
with the whisky in question in this case.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted. That is all,
Mr. Goodsell. Consider that as produced,
it is offered—I offer to produce it.
Jacob S1&oºl
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Mr. Erwin–Is Mr. Courtney in court?
The Court—If you want him I will send
for him. -
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir; I want him to iden-
tify the messenger boy that was em-
ployed by Mr. Waterman to carry these
notes between Harry and Miss Ging.
Q: Who were you in partnership with
prior to the first day of December, '94? A.
A gentleman by the name of Isaac Schul-
Iºla Il-
Q. Do you know Mr. W. W. Hayward,
the old gentleman who owns the Ozark
flats, or who has charge of them? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Do you reccollect about his coming to
your place of business last summer and
asking you about the purchase of some
iron, some T rail? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did he want, what did he do.
and what did you sell him? A. Well, he
came into the office and asked if we had
any grate bars. I went out to the yard
with him and I showed them to him,
what we had, and he measured them, and
he saw they were too short. And so
finally, he went to the other shed, and he
saw some T rails there, and he inquired to
see whether they would not be any better
than the grate bars; and he went off and
he came back the next day. He went out
and I showed him two kinds, one was
light, and the other was a little heavier,
T rails, and he asked me if I would not
cut it for him.
Q. (The T rail marked “Exhibit C-2”
shown witness.) How did the rail compare
in size to that? A. I think it was a heav-
ier rail than that.
Q. Well, is not that the same rail? A.
I could not say.
Q. You say you showed him a larger rail
than that? A. I showed him a heavier
rail and then a smaller rail, and he asked
me if I would not cut it in two lengths
for him. He told me then he needed it,
and I told him I would instruct my man
to cut it for him. He measured it, and I
instructed my man in the yard to cut it,
but I could not say whether this is the rail
or not.
Q. What size did he say he wanted it?
A.. I don’t recollect. I think he said four
feet eight inches, or four feet ten inches;
something like that.
Q. Is that the size of the rail? A. I.
could not tell you. It don’t look to me like
it. My partner could tell you better about
it than I could; he felt the rail; he came
the next day and paid for it, and my part-
ner put it in his buggy—my partner could
identify it better than I can.
Q. Well, you never sold Mr. Hayward
only those two pieces of rail; that was cut
in two pieces, four feet eight, or four ten?
A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. Your best impression is it was a
heavier rail? A. I think so; I think it
was a heavier rail; still. I could not tell,
but I think it was a heavier rail.
Q. Had you been acquainted with Mr.
Hayward before? A. Yes, sir; for some 10
or 15 years.
Q. Do you know when the Ozark was
built. A. I recollect.
Q. Do you know anything about the fur-
naces in it, when that was put in 2 A. No.
Q. He didn’t tell you what furnace he
had reference to ? A. He had reference to
a furnace they were using four foot wood
in.
Q. What date was this? A. I could not
tell you; it was in the spring of the year,
either April or May.
Q. Well, have you any way of fixing it?
A.. I have not; probably my partner will



OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
recollect it. I think it was in the spring
of the year.
Q. Well, do you keep any books in your
office so you can ascertain? A. We do, but
all such stuff like that is sold on a mem-
orandum—the sales are put on memoran-
dum slips during the day and carried in as
a sale in the evening, all lumped.
Q. Where did you keep these rails? A.
They were in the yard.
Do you know where you got those
rails? A. Well, I don’t recollect exactly.
I know one line of rails we got from the
contractor by the name of Kinney.
Q. Well, the rails you sold to Mr. Hay-
ward? A. Well, I think that came from—
if I recollect right—it was from the Great
Northern—the piece of rail that I showed
him that laid there was from the Great
Northern.
Q. Who did you buy it from, the of—
ficials? A. Well, it came from the scraps—
we used to buy scraps from them.
Q. When was this matter called to your
attention? A. About what?
Q. The circumstance of selling Mr.
Hayward this rail; when was it called to
your attention after that? A.. I don’t
understand what you mean.
Q. Well, just think it over, and see if
you can’t understand it. When did you
first think of this thing again after Mr.
Hayward came in there and bought a
piece of rail? A. I did not think of it un-
til a few days ago, when I saw my name
was mentioned in the paper, and Mr. Hay-
ward said he bought a piece of rail from
Iºne.
Q. Never talked with any one about it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Not even the lawyers? A. No,
I have not seen anybody about it.
Q. You have been talked to by any liv-
ing soul about it? A. Only a day or two
ago, when I saw my name mentioned in
the paper.
Q: Who did you talk to then? A. I
simply read the newspaper. -
Q. No one talked with you about it at
all? A. No, sir, not until I was subpoenaed.
Q. And since you have been subpoenaed
have you talked with any one? A. No, sir.
Q. You talked with your partner about
it? A. I talked with my partner some.
Q. Did you discuss the time? A. We did.
Q. Could you agree upon it? A. No,
sir.
Q: What did he think about it? A. He
thinks it was later.
Q. What time, in August? A. He thinks
it was in May, or later.
Q. You said in May? A. Yes,
thinks it was in May, later.
Q. Did you talk about the rail itself?
A. Yes, we did; I asked him if he recol-
lected anything about it, and he said yes.
Did you talk about the size of the
rail? A. We did. Not about the heft of it,
but about the length. We had so many dif-
ferent kinds of rails there we did not
know–
How much money did he pay you for
sir.
but he
that rail? A. Well, I asked my partner,”
and he says 90 cents.
Q. Oh, then, you got it from your part-
ner? A. Yes, sir. I only showed him the
rails and had it cut; but when it was
weighed he paid for it and he paid it to
my partner, and he also helped him to put
it in the buggy. That is what my partner
told me. Mr. Hayward used to come there
and collect rent from Mr. Stewart.
Q. This building you was in was Mr.
Stewart's building? A. The ground be-
longed to him.
Q. Oh, yes,
sir.
Q. You are getting something out of
this case, ain't you? A. No, sir, except my
subpoena fees, if I get them.
Q. You expect to get those? A. I don't
know.
Q. You are entirely disinterested?
Yes, sir, I am.
Q. You would not take any money any-
way, would you?
Mr. Erwin–Well, I object to that.
The Court–Let him state.
The Witness–Not unless I am entitled to
the ground rent? A. Yes,
A.
it.
Q. Haven’t you talked with W. W. Hay-
ward any? A. I did.
Q. Recently? A. That was the night
I read the papers; Mr. Hayward came to
the house and rang the bell.
Q. Didn't you tell me five minutes ago
you didn’t talk with anybody about this
matter except your partner? A. I didn’t.
Q. What talk did you have with Mr.
Hayward? A. He came to the house and
he says, “I see your name is mentioned in
the paper.” I says, “Yes,” And he says,
“Do you remember anything about those
rails?” I says, “I do.”
Q. He didn't tell you he would like to
have you help him out, or anything like
that? A. No, sir, and I would not do it
either.
Q. Have you talked with Mr. Sweetser?
A. Who is Mr. Sweetser?
Q. A lawyer in this case? A. Yes.
Q. When did he subpoena. you? A. About
10 o'clock yesterday morning. He asked
me if I knew about the rail, and I said I
did.
Q. No further conversation? A. Nothing
at all.
Q. Did Mr. Hayward tell you anything
abºut what block the irons were for-did
you know what block this iron was bought
forº A. He said he wanted it for a fur-
nace, that is all he asked me.
Q. Did you know what other furnace or
what other blocks he had? A. Didn't
know nothing about it.
RE-DIRECT. EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Have you got any interest in this case
whatever, except to tell the truth? A. That
is all.
Q. would you know the other piece of
rail if you saw it in the furnace? A: Which
piece, the next piece to this?
Q. Yes, sir, the other piece? A: I would
not know it any better than that.
Q. Well, would you mind going up at
noon to the Ozark flats and look into the
furnace, and come back this afternoon and
ten us whether that is the other piece of
rail? A. I could tell whether the two are
right or not.
Q. You could not recognize the rail if
you saw it? A. No, sir. If it is in the
fire it would be hard to tell it.
Isaac Schulman
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Schulman, where do you reside?
A. 620 Seventh avenue north.
Q. What was your business immediately


















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 373
prior to Dec. 1, 1894.” A. In scrap iron
and metal. -
Q. Were you in business alone or did you
have a partner? A. I had a partner, Mr.
Skoll, the gentleman who has just left the
witness stand.
Q. Are you acquainted with W. W. Hay-
ward? A. Not much.
Q. You know him by sight when you see
him? A. That is all.
Q. Do you remember W. W. Hayward
coming to your place of business and pur-
chasing any T. rails, at any time during
the year? A. Yes, sir. I think it was late
in May.
Q. How many pieces of T rail did he
purchase? A. Two.
Q. Do you remember the length? A. No,
not exactly, for they were cut when he
called for them, and still he took out a
measure from his pocket and measured
them to see if they were cut right; but I
don’t know the length.
Q. Had they been cut there? A. They
had.
Q. Well, by whose order were they cut?
A. Oh, by Mr. Hayward's, I presume.
Q. Do you know whether exhibit “C-2”
is about the size of the T rail which he
carried away. Do you know whether that
is about the size of the T rail that was
purchased by Mr. Hayward of you? A. I
would not swear to that. I think it was
a little heavier rail than that.
Q: What is your best impression in re-
gard to the length of the rail? A. He had
measured a grate bar there, and he said
they were a little too short, and the grate
bars were four feet.
Q. The grate bars were four feet and he
said they were a little too short? A. Yes,
sir; and he says then, “I will take the
rails,” and he ordered cut of Mr. Skoll.
Q. What did he say he wanted them
for? A. To put in the furnace to keep the
coal from coming through. He said the
grate bars were burning out, and he want-
ed them to put in the furnace.
Q. Who delivered the T rails to Mr. Hay-
ward? A. I did; I put them into his
buggy and Mr. Hayward carried them off
with him.
Q. You remember what he paid for them?
A. He didn’t pay anything that day; he
didn’t have any change. He came the next
day or the second day after, I can’t swear
to that, and paid me 90 cents.
Q. Did he ever buy other rails of you at
any time? A. No, sir, he did not.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You are pretty sure it was last May?
A. Well, I would not swear to that either,
but I think it was last May.
Q. Might it not have been the first of
June? A. Yes, sir; I would not swear. I
would say from the latter part of May to
the first of June.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. You recollect it was after April? A.
Oh, yes, sir.
Q. What part of April do you recollect
it was after? A. Well, on the 17th of April
he came around for rent and I know I
didn't see him again until it was due again,
and that would be the 18th of May.
M. D. wilson
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Wilson, do you know F. S. Dan-
forth? A. I do, sir.
Q. On the 11th of December did you have
a conversation with him at the Oneida
Block in his office? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you have a conversation with him.
at any time in December? A. I think I did.
I think it was about the 18th.
Q. Did you have any other conversation
with him that month in his office? A. I.
think not.
Q. At that time when you had the only
conversation with him in his office, what-
ever the day might have been, did he say
to you, “You are mixed up in this Hayward
business.” And did he ask you, “Could you
see who was in the buggy?” And did you
answer, “No, the top was up and I could
not tell, and I don’t want to get mixed up
in the business anyhow” A. I did, sir.
Q. Did you have a conversation with
Louis Laramee at the door of Laramee's
store on Fourth street the day after the
murder? A. I did not, on that day; I did
after I came back from Michigan.
Q. Did you on that day say to Mr. Lara-
mee—that is, the day after the murder and
at that place—say that you saw the rig,
and Laramee asked you could you see who
was in the buggy, and you answered, “No,
I could not; the top was up and it was
dark; I looked back, but I could not see
who was in the buggy” A. I did not that
day; I did when I got home from Michigan
—probably told a hundred the same thing.
Q. Do you know Harry D. Davis? A.
Yes, sir, I am well acquainted with him.
He is the bookkeeper in the People's Bank.
Q. On or about the 28th of last month,
January, at the People's Bank, in this city,
did you have a conversation with him? A.
I did.
Q: Did you say to him, “I have got a
chance to make $400 or $500?” A. It was
in February, and not in January.
Q: Did you not, on Jan. 28, at the Peo-
ple's Bank, in this city, say to him, “I
have a chance to make $400 or $500 in the
Ging murder, out of old man Hayward,”
or anything of like effect? A. No, sir.
Q. Well, in February, did you say to
Mr. Davis that you had a chance to make
$400 or $500 out of the Ging murder trial, out
of old man Hayward? A. I didn't say it
that way. I said I had a chance if I wanted
to, but even if I was a poor man they
could not hire me for money.
Q. You did not say it in the way I have
asked you? A. No, sir.
Q. The 10th of February was on Sunday,
you probably did not have a conversation
with him on that day? A. Well, I did not
say just the exact date, it was probably the
next day.
Q. Probably Monday? A. Yes, sir, I
would not say the exact date.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q: What led you to suppose you would
make four or five hundred dollars? A. Mr.
Erwin's own man came to my house on
Sunday night.
Mr. Erwin–Well, who is he?
The Witness—That man that sat over
there.
Mr. Erwin–Mr. Sweetser?
The Witness—Yes, sir. And he says,
“Mr. Hayward has plenty of money, could
we lead you?” and I said, “No, sir, I am







374
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
a poor man, but money could not hire me.”
Q. Could he do what? A. Could he lead
me, could I be hired. He said he knew you
had be subpoeaned and asked me if they
could hire me. I said, “No, sir, you can’t
hire me.”
Q. When was that? A. Two weeks ago
last Sunday night, I think.
RE-RIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin. -
Q. Now, you say, this man that sets
here with me, with whiskers, the blonde
man? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That sits here,
trial? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you see him? A. Two weeks
ago last Sunday night. He said, Mr. Hay-
ward has lots of money. He wanted to
know if I could be-he wanted to know
what I was going to swear to, what I had
sworn to on the stand, and I told him,
*No, sir, you or Mr. Nye will not know it
until I get on the stand.” And he wanted
to know if I could be changed, and I said
“No, sir.” He was there five or six times to
find me.
Q. Did he ever make any talk to you of
that kind except on this occasion? A. He
never saw me but on that occasion. He
has been there since, but never caught me
at home.
Q. Don’t you know as a matter of fact,
Mr. Wilson, he never said any such thing
to you? A. Yes, sir, he said it, and I
could have told you before if you had
asked me, but I did not want to say any
more than you asked me to.
Mr. Erwin–That is all, but I want him
to be here this afternoon, because I want
to call Mr. Sweetser this afternoon on that
particular point.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. I want to ask you why you threw
people off that you could not see this man,
why you made that answer to Mr. Dan-
forth and others? A. Well, the minute I
got off the train when I came back from
Manistee, Mich., I presume there was a
hundred people after me, reporters, law-
yers and friends of mine, like Mr. Laramee
and Mr. Danforth, and I didn't propose to
tell them anything; I wanted to keep out
of the trouble if I could, and I had to at-
tend to my business, and I told it the next
day to people that I thought ought to know
about it, and I thought that was enough.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Then what you told them was not
true? A. Why, I was not under oath.
Q. I say it was not true, you told an
untruth? A. No, I did not; I did not con-
sider it was any of their business.
You made an untrue statement? A.
I don’t claim that I did—it was nothing to
outsiders.
assisting us in the
F. S. Danforth
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Did you have a talk with Mr. Wilson,
the gentleman last on the stand, on Dec.
11? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In that conversation did you say to
him: “You are mixed up in the Hayward
business; could you not tell who was in
the buggy?” And did he answer you:
*No, the top was up, and I could not tell.”
And also say that he did not want to get
mixed up in the business? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial and
not contradictory.
The Court—All there
dates; that is all.
further than that.
Mr. Erwin-I ask the question, whether
he did so state.
The Court—That is objected to, and the
objection is sustained. The only material
thing is the date. He stated it was at a
different time.
Mr. Nye-Do I understand the answer is
on record?
The Court–Oh, it won't do any harm;
he has admitted it.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You say that this was on the 11th of
December? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do you fix that? A. Mr.
son came into the office to pay some
money. I have no other way of remem-
bering the date except from the book.
Q. Don't remember seeing him any other
time, do you; that is, within two or three
weeks after the 3d of December? A. Oh,
no, no.
Q. Well, as a matter of fact, from your
own individual remembrance, you would
not positively swear as to the date? A.
Certainly not, no, sir.
is to this is the
You need not go any
Wil-
Louis Laramee
Sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Do you know Mr. Wilson, the livery-
man, who was next to the last upon the
stand? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have a conversation with him
at the door of your store on Fourth street
º day after the murder? A. I think I
101.
Q. Did he state to you then that he saw
the rig, and did you ask him then, “Could
you see who was in the buggy?” and did
he answer, “No, I could not; the top was
up and it was dark; I looked back, but 1
could not see who was in the buggy?” A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye–That is objected to as imma-
terial.
The Court–Objection is overruled.
Q. He so told you? A. Yes, sir, he did.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You say this was the next day after
the murder? A. Yes, sir, the next day
after, about 9 o'clock in the morning.
Harry D. Davis
Q. Mr. Davis, what is your occupation
or business? A. Teller in the People's
Bank.
Q. Do you know Mr. Wilson, who was on
the stand this morning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have a conversation with him
on or about Jan. 28 last? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he in that conversation say, “I
have a chance to make four or five hun-
dred dollars out of the Ging murder trial,
out of old man Hayward? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–That is all.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You fix the time when? A. Jan. 28.
Q. How do you fix it at that date? A. Mr.
Wilson bought some drafts on that day
to go out of the city to buy horses. I fix
the time from the draft register.
The court here took a recess until 2
o'clock p. m.



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
27.
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB.
Harry Gilbert
was recalled and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Have you got the register of the Goos-
man barn? A. I have.
Q. I wish you would turn to the month
of April, April 27. What is this book? A.
This is the register of the business that is
done, the transactions through the day.
Q. I show you April 27, 1894. Name Harry
Hayward; team, Dan; vehicle, buggy; de-
parted at 9 o'clock; price $1. Does it show
when it was returned 2 A. It don’t show
the return. Charge $1 for the first hour.
Q. On April 28 I show you a charge. Har-
ry Hayward, the team, Kit; buggy; at 1:35;
paid $2.50; return 6:15; paid $2.50. What is
this a record of? A. That is the rig Hay-
ward got. -
Q. I show you April 29. Harry Hayward;
Kit; buggy; taken at 5:30; returned 7:25;
paid $1.50. A. That is a record of his trans-
action.
The Court—What is the object of this?
Mr. Erwin–I am going to show that
Harry Hayward was in the habit of riding
almost every day or two during the sum-
incr.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as irrelevant and
immaterial.
The Court—Sustained.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Turn to the record of August and
see if Harry Hayward had a rig, and what
sort of a rig, when he got it, and when he
returned it. A. Harry Hayward; Nelly,
and a bay; Bangor buggy; double team;
taken at 1:30, returned at 10 o'clock in the
evening.
Q. What was the charge made? A: $4.
Q. Have you any recollection of the
taking of that rig, or any circumstances
connected with it? A: I don’t recollect; I
know he took the rig; that is all.
Mr. Erwin—I will show you the entry on
the register on Aug. 8. A. That is the
one I just had.
Q. I will show you Aug. 9. Harry
Hayward; mare, Nelly, buggy. A. It went
at 3 and back at 6. $2.
Q. Here is another enty: Harry Hay-
ward; Nelly; buggy; 24. A. 9:30 buggy
taken out, and back 10:30; $1.
Q. I will ask you generally, was not Mr.
Hayward in the habit of having rigs there
two or three times a week, for the purpose
of riding out with ladies? A. Yes, sir;
he hired rigs there quite often.
Q. What is the Bangor buggy which was
out on the 27th; how many will it hold? A.
It will hold three; but two will ride more
comfortably.
Mr. Smith—At this time we desire to offer
the depositions of Stroud V. Keller and
Susan Loper, of Macoupin county, Ill.,
in the case of the State of Minnesota.
against Harry T. Hayward; depositions
taken some two or three weeks ago; I
think it was perhaps the 5th or 6th, begin-
ning on the 4th day of February, 1895, at
7:30 o'clock, before C. W. Teitsort, a not-
ary public of that county; as bearing upon
the question of the credibility—I think we
cannot offer it for the purpose of affecting
the competency—of Adry Hayward, a wit-
ness for the state.
The Court–Does that testimony go to
the whole Hayward family? -
Mr. Erwin–It may or it may not. We do
not offer it for that purpose.
The Court—The court wants to know in
what respect you claim that Adry Hay-
ward is insane. This issue must be con-
fined to its proper limit.
Mr. Erwin–Our claim is that Adry Hay-
ward was suffering under a delusion at
the time that he announced to Elder
Stewart anything which he may have said
in relation to any plot or intention of Har-
ry Hayward.
The Court–Do you concede that he did
announce that fact to Elder Stewart at
the time named 2
Mr. Erwin–Only so far as the evidence
concedes it; that is all.
The Court—If you propose to show that
Adry was insane at the time that he made
these declarations to Mr. Stewart that will
lay a proper foundation for the introduc-
tion of this testimony. You ought to pro-
duce Mr. Stewart and show the charac-
ter of the language and actions of Adry at
that time. You cannot get at it in any
other way that I can see. Now, the court
understands the law in this case—
Mr. Erwin–I have not stated my claim
yet. The court interrupted me.
The Court—You can state it; it must be a
definite proposition.
Mr. Erwin–We claim that at that time
Adry Hayward, by reason of insanity, la-
bored under an insane delusion at that
time, and that the insane delusion has con-
tinued up to, and now continues, did con-
tinue at the time that he was on the stand,
and that the delusion related to the entire
subject matter testified to by him of any
connection between Harry Hayward and
Miss Ging criminal in its character. Now,
to establish that, we propose now to show
by depositions, of which this deposition of-
fered is one—
The Court—I don’t know that there is
any objection to it, only the court wants
to know something. I want to know what
the issue is that you are going to submit
to the jury. On what particular ground
you claim he is insane, so as to confine the
testimony to that particular question.
Mr. Erwin–If you will allow me I will
try now to state, if you wish to be informed
what my claim is that I am trying to state.
As I said when interrupted, we propose
to prove this insanity, this insane delusion,
by first showing the ancestral insanity of
John Hedges Keller, maternal grand uncle
of Adry Hayward; that he became insane
in 1840, before he was married, when he
was about 30 years old, and remained in-
sane about a year. Was peaceable. In
1860 he became violently insane, and was
sent to the asylum. Records of asylum
show, admitted July, 1860; discharged as
recovered, April, 1861; returned January,
1863; discharged, November, 1863, as improv-
ed; returned December, 8, 1874; discharged
Sept. 29, as improved; returned Dec. 30, 1879,
and discharged July 2, 1882, unimproved.
Died Aug. 2, 1882.
And the further ancestral insanity of
Zillah-
The Court—It is not necessary to go into
particulars You propose to show that his
ancestors were insane.
Mr. Erwin–I propose to show ancestral






376 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
insanity reaching back through three gen-
erations, during the past three generations.
These depositions are offered for the pur-
pose of showing that. After the ancestral
insanity has been shown I propose to prove
by Dr. Hayward, by the father and
mother and by other witnesses, like and
similar delusions had been entertained by
Adry Hayward, in which slight things were
aggravated into an insane delusion. Mat-
ters of little moment were aggravated to
be terrific and controlling forces insane in
character. After I have shown those
things in addition to the ancestral insanity
in the family I propse to put experts upon
the stand who have seen and heard Adry
testify; and I propose to put to them a
hypothetical question which includes all
the elements of proof which I shall make,
and ask them to prove by them that in
their opinion upon those facts he was in-
same in regard to this subject matter at the
time he gave his testimony on the stand.
Now, that is the only way insanity can
be proved. This form of insanity can only
be proven that way.
The Court–Now, let us see.
Mr. Nye—What is the form of insanity?
The Court—That is what I am going to
ask about.
Mr. Nye-I object to it as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial, and no founda-
tion laid, and it has no tendency to prove
any issue in the case.
The Court—I think that the law is well
settled that an insane person is a com-
petent witness, and competent to testify
to anything outside of matters upon which
he was perhaps insane at the time of tes-
tifying, or which transpired at the time
that he was insane. Now, so far as the
first question is concerned, it has been
settled by this court that Adry Hayward
was a competent witness to testify in this
case. There was no other testimony of—
fered at the time that the objection was
made, than the appearance of the witness
on the stand. He had been asked but a
few questions at that time. And as the
court said at the time, that it did not
observe any more insanity in the wit-
ness than it did in the attorney, so that
settled the question. Now, as to every-
thing that he testified to, his testimony is
entitled to such credit as the jury may
give him, except such portions of that
which was given as to transactions when
it is claimed that he was insane. Now, the
courts hold that where a witness is on the
stand and testifies, is a competent wit-
ness for that purpose, that his credibility
may be questioned by showing that at the
time of some of the transactions to which
he testified, he was insane. There is no
case that I know of, except where there
was total insanity, that is where he
was entirely unable by reason of insanity
to recollect or to intelligently testify as to
the transactions that took place. I have
been unable to find any authorities where
it is confined to a delusion. There is no
question but what the same rule would
apply in case he was insane upon one par-
ticular subject; and if he has testified in
regard to that particultr subject, there is
no question but what you can show that he
regard to that particular subject, there is
at the time; and the transaction of which
he testifies took place. Now, it is very
difficult for me to ascertain just how far
you can go in this matter; and that is the
reason I ask you to say what kind of in-
sanity, and in what particular thing he was
insane upon, if any, on any subject that
was called to his attention when he was on
the stand, and to which he testified. And
when you put it in writing, or put it down
Some way, so that the court can fully un-
derstand upon what particular branch of
the testimony that he testified to that he
was insane upon, then I will permit you to
introduce testimony, first, to show his ac-
tions at that time, to show what he said
and did; and then to show that he is in-
same, that his ancestors were insane; and
then to produce your experts to testify as
to their opinion from all the facts con-
nected with that particular branch of in-
sanity or delusion.
Mr. Erwin–Then this is what our partic-
ular claim is in regard to this. We claim
that on the 30th day of November, Adry
Hayward was insane, because—
The Court—Absolutely insane upon all
subjects.
Mr. Erwin—Your honor interrupts me.
Your honor don’t get my idea. We claim
that he was on the 30th day of November
insane in these respects; that he imagined
by reason of insanity, and was possessed
of an insane delusion by reason of insanity,
that on that day Harry Hayward and him-
self had a conversation in his father's office
at which the imagining took place; that the
circumstances which he narrated here upon
the stand as taking place on that day, and
the things which he narrated never trans-
pired in fact, but were insanities, delusions
arising from insanity, and in insanity,
which he has continued to believe and does
believe to the time that he was on the wit.
neSS Stand.
The Court—Where is your evidence?
Mr. Erwin–I have it right here.
The Court—I nean that he was insang
that day. -
Mr. Erwin–I can prove that only in a
proper manner.
The Court—You have to lay the founda-
tion for it.
Mr. Erwin–My foundation I am endeavor-
ing to lay by first showing the ancestral
insanity. And next by showing–
The Court—I will require you in the first
place to show the actions and sayings of
the man on that day that you claim that he
was insane.
Mr. Erwin–I have shown them. I have
shown by the defendant and his father
that Adry Hayward was not there on that
day.
The Court—That don’t show that he was
insane.
(At this point there was loud applause by
the audience.)
The Court—Gentlemen and ladies, you will
have to leave the house.
Mr. Erwin–Your honor, that does not
show that he was insane. There are two
conclusions that may arise from that. He
may be either insane or he may fabricate,
provided the testimony of the defendant
and his father is true. His testimony may
be false testimony, or may be insane testi-
mony. I claim it is insane testimony, and
false testimony because it is insane. Now,
how do I seek to prove that?
The Court–Can you claim that for every
witness on the stand?






















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
377
Mr. Erwin–No, sir, I cannot claim it for
any one in whom I cannot show the indica-
tions of insanity and cannot show by ex-
pert testimony was insane, and in posses-
sion of an insane delusion at the time he
testified.
The Court—I have stated to you that you
might show just how he acted on that day,
if you have any testimony.
Mr. Erwin–He was not there.
The Court—Then you cannot show it,
cannot prove he was insane if he was not
there. You may prove he lied.
Mr. Erwin–Suppose there had been a
different form of delusion. Suppose he had
claimed to have been a different person on
that day? -
The Court—Well, I will tell you what I
will allow you to prove on that day or any
other day in which he has testified to any
particuar thing in this case that you claim
shows insanity. You may, to lay a founda-
tion for this testimony, show his condition
on that day or any other day, what he said
and did, and how he acted. And when you
have laid that foundation, if it is sufficient,
in the judgment of the court, to allow you
to go further with it, the court will permit
it.
Mr. Erwin–Your honor, does your honor
hold–
The Court—I have just stated what I
hold.
Mr. Erwin–I ask your honor, does your
honor hold, when I have already proved
that no such thing ever took place on that
day—
The Court—I don’t think I have. I don't
think you have any more than you have
proved it did take place.
Mr. Erwin–I say I have proved by wit-
nesses that no such thing took place. Now,
I am not obliged to weave my testimony
in with the testimony of the state. I have a
right to stand on my own testimony.
The Court—I have stated just what you
can do.
Mr. Erwin–I understand that. Does your
honor hold that when I have proved that
no such thing ever took place—
The Court—I say you have not proved it.
No, that is not sufficient foundation. With
your statement that he is insane you have
to bring some further proof before the
court can exercise its discretion in this
matter and judgment in this matter than
the fact that he has been contradicted by
one, two or three witnesses, because it
would open the door in every case where
there was a contradiction of testimony for
the counsel to get and say one of them
is insane, and he proposes to prove it.
There is nothing except your bare state-
ment of his insanity at these times. But I
will permit you to show just how he acted,
what he did and said upon the days that
you claim he was insane, and days prior
and subsequent to the transactions that he
testified to in which you claim that he
was insane. And if you had established a
prima facie case, or anything like it, I will
permit you to introduce these depositions.
But you must lay the foundation.
Mr. Erwin–I will state frankly to the
court that the fact that no such thing
ever took place as he testified to, is the
basis on which I rely to commence proof
that he entertains, or is in possession of an
insane delusion as to what he testifies to
have happened on that day. And having
shown that I now offer to show-
The Court—I will not admit that you have
shown it.
Mr. Erwin–It is my claim, your honor.
The Court—Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Having shown that, I now of:
fer to show by these depositions the insan-
ity of his ancestors, which I have stated
to the court. I have not stated them in
full, and which are fully contained in these
depositions, with the promise to the court
that I will then put upon the stand men
who have heard the testimony of Adry
Hayward, and who, upon the entire case
as to what he testified to in delusion, will
give their opinion that it was a delusion,
which was the moving cause of his testi-
mony, and not his memory.
The Court—They could not be permitted
to testify upon these depositions. Before I
would allow them to testify as experts the
whole question of his conduct during that
time would have to come before the court,
and would have to be given to these wit-
nesses whom you have called as experts.
Mr. Erwin–Before the experts are called
in I will introduce the testimony of Dr.
Hayward, Mrs. Hayward and W. W. Hay-
ward, showing numerous instances of de-
lusion had and entertained, insane delusion
had and entertained on the part of Adry.
The Court—I will not permit you to intro-
duce all that testimony you have enumera-
ted as to the time and conversations that
he has testified to, without hesitation.
Mr. Erwin–I understand your honor's
claim and its limitation. My offer, though,
is broader than that, much broader.
The Court—Your offer will be denied.
Mr. Erwin–I will offer first the deposi-
tions which are offered. -
The Court—I shall rule them out until
you introduce further testimony.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
The Court—I shall rule them out until
you prove by other testimony tending to
show the condition of the main that he has
stated in his testimony, named in his tes-
timony, that the transactions took place
at the time and prior and subsequent to
that time, upon the same subject.
Mr. Smith—How long prior to that time
can we show, during a period of years?
The Court—That is largely in the discre-
tion of the court. No, sir, it would be a
short period prior to that. The court would
not exercise his discretion until he heard
the testimony.
Mr. Smith—I understand that the deposi-
tion of S. V. Keller and Susan Loper are
refused?
The Court—They are refused at this time.
You must have more evidence before the
court than the statement of the counsel
for the appearance of this witness on the
stand when he testifies.
Mr. Erwin–It is understood that the
whole thing is offered, the order and notice,
Mr. Nye–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial, and no foundation
laid, and has no tendency to establish any
issue in this case.
Mr. Erwin–We will re-offer at this time;
the offer is made in regard to insanity
and insane delusions offered when W. W.
Hayward was on the stand, and Mrs. W.
W. Hayward was on the stand.
The Court-What particular time; on the
Sunday that they were in the house?


373
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
Mr. Erwin–I first offer to prove by Mrs.
Hayward that some of her ancestors were
insane.
The Court–Counsel will please recollect
what I said.
Mr. Erwin–I know, your honor, I am
simply making the offer, I make the offer
to prove by it.
Mr. Nye-Same objection.
Objection sustained. Exception.
The Court—Objection sustained on the
ground that there is no proper foundation
laid for that kind of testimony; that the
order of the testimony as directed by the
court is to show the acts and sayings of
the witness. Adry Hayward, at the time
which he has testified to in this action first;
and to be proved by other proof, if there
is evidence tending to show insanity. And
that the proof must be confined to the
particular delusion complained of.
Mr. Erwin–We take an exception to the
ruling of the court that the proof must be
confined.
The Court—Or that he was totally insane
at that time?
Mr. Erwin–We take an exception to your
honor's ruling in that regard, because that
shuts out all these offers.
The Court—No, it don't.
Mr. Erwin–It shuts out all offers of prior
delusions. -
The Court–We are not going to prove the
insanity in any other respect except in ref-
erence to what he has testified to, unless
you prove that total insanity took place.
Mr. Erwin–We take an exception to your
honor's ruling in that respect, and offer
under this decision the testimony of Mr.
and Mrs. Hayward and Dr. Hayward, as to
other delusions which he has had and en-
tertained.
The Court”—I think I have ruled on that
once or twice. I want it put in writing so
that I can know they cover this case.
Mr. Erwin–My offer is to prove by Dr.
Hayward and Mrs. Hayward, and Mr.
Hayward, Sr., that Adry has acted in a
strange and peculiar manner for a number
of years prior to this time, and that he
has on many occasions suffered under de-
lusions, insane delusions, in regard to
common things.
The Court—That is too broad entirely.
You have got to prove before the experts,
and before you ask any witnesses the
question as to whether another is insane.
He must be conversant with the conversa-
tion and have a knowledge of the witness,
his actions and doings at the time that
the insanity is alleged. I am willing to
permit you to put in anything on that
branch of the case that is proper.
Mr. Erwin–Now, your honor, we then
offer this deposition which we have just
offered, together with the certificates and
returns, and the testimony therein showing
this ancestral insanity.
Mr. Nye-It is conceded that these depo-
sitions, the contents of them, relate to the
mental condition of the ancestors of Adry
Hayward, at a time preceding the time at
which Adry testified to of the facts to
which his testimony related.
Mr. Erwin–Precisely. We offer
the whole thing in as an exhibit.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial, and no founda-
tion laid, and no tendency to prove or es-
tablish any issue in this case.
to put
the
ground that there is no proper foundation
laid at the present time for the introduc-
tion of that.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
The Court–Objection sustained on
Mr. Smith—This exhibit offered is ex-
hibit 9. We offer exhibits 10 and 11, being dep-
ositions of the superintendent of the insane
asylum at Jacksonville, Ills., J. F. Mc-
Kenzie. And the depositions show the
records of that institution with relation to
these ancestors.
Mr. Nye–Same objection.
The Court—Same ruling.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Smith–We offer defendant's exhibit
11, being the deposition of Dr. Samuel Van-
meter, of Charleston, Coles county, Ills.,
for the same purpose.
Mr. Nye-Same objection.
The Court—Same ruling.
Mr. Smith–Exception noted. -
W. A. Jones
Sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin. -
Q. What is your profession? A. Phy-
sician and surgeon. -
Q. Where have you practiced? A. Min-
neapolis, and in the hospital for the insane
at St. Peter.
Q. How long were you practicing in the
hospital at St. Peter for the insane? A.
Four years, as assistant physician.
Q. Have you been examined often as an
expert in insane cases? A. Sometimes.
Q. Have you the qualifications of a phy-
sician in this state under the local law? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. A certificate of the board of surgeons,
as they call it? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nye—There is no question about that.
Mr. Erwin—You make no question about
his competency?
Mr. Nye-No, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Have you ever been called
upon to treat any member of the Hayward
family for insanity?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial unless it is confined to
Adry, and too indefinite.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–I offer to prove by this wit-
Iless-
The Court–Who
there?
Mr. Erwin–I am just telling your honor.
The Court—I want to know before you
tell it.
Mr. Erwin–How are you to find out un-
til I tell it?
The Court—Put it in writing, if you can't
tell whether it was Adry.
Mr. Erwin–It is not Adry.
The Court—Then the objection
tained.
Mr. Erwin–I will make my offer. I of:
fer to show that as a physician, a compe-
tent in insanity, he attended and treated
Dr. Hayward, brother of Adry Hayward,
from July until October, 1892, during which
time Dr. Hayward was insane.
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court–Objection sustained. There is
no proper foundation laid for it.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. You were present here and heard the
testimony of Adry Hayward? A. Yes,
slı”.
Q. You were present as an expert sum-
moned by the defense? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. In connection with Dr. Williamson,
is it that he treated
is sus-




















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
379.
who was also present as an expert, sum-
moned by the defense? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Take the witness.
No cross-examination.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, not be-
ing able to lay the foundation on which a
hypothetical question can be asked of an
expert who was not present and saw with
his own eyes and his own senses the phe-
nomena and circumstances which always
attend insane persons and persons who are
troubled with insane delusions, I am un-
able, of course, to introduce any experts
on that question. I have already
proved that the circumstances said
to have taken place in the testi-
mony of Adry Hayward on the 30th of
November never took place, and I have of
fered to prove his previous insanity in re-
gard to insane delusions, upon other evi-
dence.
The Court—There is no proof offered ex-
cept of the persons that are not experts;
you offer to ask them a question.
Mr. Erwin–Not the question as to wheth-
er he is insane.
The Court—That is the question asked.
Mr. Erwin–I offer to ask it, then, as
phenomena and circumstances which at-
tend the strange and peculiar actions of
Adry Hayward upon the different occa-
sions which I have sought to prove, and
they were ruled out. Of course, I am
unable to put any expert on the stand be-
cause there is no foundation laid.
The Court—You can lay a foundation if
you have it. At the time and prior to,
and subsequent to the time that you claim
that he was insane by his actions, if you
claim he was insane, by calling on Mr.
Stewart.
Mr. Erwin–That the court may under-
stand me, it is expressly ruled that I can-
not show any insanity or insane delusion
on any other subject matter than this
º subject matter; that is the only
rule.
The Court—That is the rule I have es-
tablished, that insane delusions must be
in reference to a matter that he has tes-
tified about, either at the time of the testi-
fying, or at the time that the transaction
happened.
Mr. Erwin–And that no other phenome-
non of insanity is admissible.
The Court—If there was any evidence of
insanity at different times, I would permit
you to go further and prove acts of in-
sanity prior to and subsequent to that
time, within a reasonable limit. It will be
confined to the sound discretion of the
court.
W. A. Jones
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Is there such a thing as insane de-
lusions in the human mind?
Objected to as immaterial and no founda-
tion laid.
Overruled.
A. There is, yes, sir.
Q. By what means and in what manner
does an expert determine that a person 1a-
bors under a delusion, and is not operating
or testifying from sound memory?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as immaterial.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Is not the only way of ascertaining
whether a person’s testimony, coherent
upon its face, is in fact insane delusion,
to take into consideration the entire his-
tory of the witness, the insanity in his
race, in his blood, the indications and phe-
nomena of insanity prior to the time of
the delusion claimed, and without them,
consideration of his appearance upon this
witness stand, the subject matter of the
testimony, and his subsequent condition,
together with his physical circumstances?
Mr. Nye-Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial, and no foundation
for an opinion upon the question.
The Court–Objection sustained. You may
ask him whether he can tell by the wit-
ness testifying whether he is insane or
not.
Mr. Erwin–I
honor's rulings
all.
The Court—I
note an exception to your
on my question. That is
want to have you confine
it to the actual facts in the case.
Mr. Smith–We offer a transcript from
the Illinois Central Hospital for the In-
sane, located at Jacksonville, Ill., giving
the records of John H. Keller and George
K. Vanimeter, as they appear in the case
books of said institution; under the seal
of the institution, and signed and sworn
to by the present superintendent. I will
ask that they be marked Exhibit 12. The
paper was marked Exhibit 12.
Mr. Nye-Same objections as to the de-
positions.
The Court—Same ruling;
laid.
Mr. Smith–Exception.
Mr. Nye-We further object that the cer-
tificate is insufficient to the record of the
hospital.
Mr. Erwin–I suppose that the only thing
left me is to ask Adry whether he was
insane or not.
The Court—You asked him that and I
ruled it out.
Mr. Erwin–I won’t need the experts
since I cannot get the foundation for their
opinion.
The Court—You might call somebody that
saw him at these times.
Mr. Erwin–Well, doctors, you can be ex-
cused, then.
A. S. Sweetser
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. During your absence this morning Mr.
Wilson was placed upon the stand, and, on
cross-examination, was asked by Mr. Nye.
(Here witness was read Mr. Wilson’s tes-
timony about the effort to change his testi-
mony.)
Q. I will ask you to state whether that
is true or whether it is not? A. That is
not true.
Q. Did you say to him, “Could you be
hired?” A.. I did not.
Q. Did you say to him, did you ask him
if he could be changed? A. I did not.
Q. Did you offer or intimate, directly or
indirectly, in any way or manner whatever,
that he could be hired, would be hired,
might be hired, and that Hayward had
money, or would use money, or would give
him money, or in any way attempt to in-
fluence him in regard to his testimony” A.
I did not, in any manner whatever.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. At about what time were you re-
tained in the case? A. I think it was
about the 20th of December.
no foundation






380
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. Are you practicing alone or with a
partner? A. I am practicing alone. I of
fice with a lawyer.
Q. Your office is with whom 2 A. S. A.
Reed.
Q. But you are not in partnership? A.
Not at all; no, sir.
Q. What has been the department of your
duties in the defense in this case? A.
Mostly looking up testimony, following up
and finding out what testimony I could.
Q. It has been almost entirely that, has
it not? A. Nearly all; yes, sir.
Q. It included the inquiry into jurymen,
the standing of the jurymen, their history
somewhat? A. No, sir; I was not engaged
in that at all.
Q. It has been, then, entirely in ascer-
taining what could be proven on the part
of the defense? A. Yes, getting statements
of witnesses principally.
Q. And, also, what in substance would
be the testimony of the state's witnesses?
A. Yes, sir, those that we knew.
Q. You have been exceedingly industri-
ous in that line of work?
Objected to.
Mr. Nye-I don’t mean any disrespect.
A. I tried to be; yes, sir.
Q. And have been very zealous; you have
been very much wrought up in this de-
fense, very zealous in behalf of your client?
A. Being retained as a lawyer, I was in-
terested to use my best efforts.
Q. You have consulted with these vari-
ous witnesses, such as Grindall, Miss
Wachtler and those witnesses? A. I con-
sulted with Grindall; I don’t remember
that I saw Miss Wachtler in regard to her
testimony.
Q. Is not Miss Wachtler in your office
now? A. She is there; yes, sir.
Q. How long has she been there, in your
office? A. I think during a part of last
week.
Q. During a part of last week; shortly
after she gave her testimony? A. I don't
know whether it was before or after; I
think it was after, however.
Q. How many times did you go to see
Mr. Wilson? A. I was at his house, I
think, three times; I saw him the third
time, and I have been to his stable several
times prior to that.
Q. You attempted by all means that you
knew to ascertain what he knew concern-
ing the case? A. I used all fair means, I
think.
Q. You were endeavoring to induce him
to disclose to you what his testimony
would be? A. I was; yes.
Q. How long did you talk with him? A.
I should say I was there 10 or 15 minutes.
Q. In your department of service for the
defense in this case, have you not handled
some money of Mr. Hayward's? A. I have
not. Not a dollar. -
Q. Nor disbursed any money? A. I have
disbursed money from my own pocket;
yes.
Q. From your own pocket? A. Yes.
Q. To what extent have you done that?
A. Oh, I should say $25 or $30.
Q. Did you have very much conversation
with Mr. Wilson? A. Oh, we were talking
together about the time that I was there.
Mr. Nye-I believe that is all.
- Mr. Erwin–How did Miss Wachtler come
to your office, under what circumstances?
A. Miss Wachtler spoke to Mr. Reed, say-
ing that she had been released from the
office where she had been.
Q. Mr. Odell’s office? A. Yes, sir; and
she said she did not know what she was
going to do, and Mr. Reed said she might
come in his office there; and she said she
would come there and do his typewriting,
and also take in work from outside.
Q. Is she there under any salary? A.
Not to my knowledge.
Q. Has she any salary from you? A.
None at all.
Q. Have you anything to do with her
being in the office? A. Nothing whatever.
Q. Mr. Reed rents the office? A. He
rents two of the offices, and I rent the
room in which I am from the Boston Block
Company.
Q. Was there anything said or intimated
or looked or smiled, by which Mr. Wilson
could get an idea that you wanted to in-
fluence him in his testimony?
Mr. Nye-That is a repetition, practically,
of the question which was made very
broad in the first instance. Objected to as
immaterial. -
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Nye-By whom were you retained?
A.. I was retained by W. W. Hayward
through Mr. Reed.
Q. Mr. Reed has been an attorney for
some time, for Mr. Hayward in civil mat-
ters? A. I think that he has had some
small matters for him; I don't think any
business of importance.
Mr. Erwin–Mr. Reed is not in issue.
The Court–Have you any objection.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, I object to bringing Mr.
Reed into this matter,
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, we have
subpoenas out for several witnesses, and
one is for Paul Borne, the messenger boy
at the West Hotel, who took the note over
to Miss Ging from Mr. Hayward. They
said he was at the West Hotel and we no-
tified him that we wanted him and sent
up there to subpoena him this morning
and he was away, and we went to sub-
poena him this noon and he was out, we
were told he had gone home, so we sent
a subpoena after him to his residence but
he has not appeared yet.
The Court—Well, won't they admit that?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, I know your honor, but
we want to try and find out what that note
was by Mr. Mallon. We understand that
Miss Ging tore this note up and threw it
into her waste basket, and that Mr. Mallon
gathered up the fragments of it. And we
want this messenger boy to lay the founda-
tion first.
The Court—Hasn’t the state got it?
Mr. Erwin–I don’t know where it is,
but we have got to subpoena, these men
to find out; I can not find out any other
Way. -
Mr. Smith–The state is in a position to
aid us very much if they so desired.
The Court—Of course if they have it I
see no objection to producing it.
Mr. Nye-Officer Mallon has all the frag-
ments that were gathered up.
The Court–Is he here now 2
Mr. Smith–Yes, but we have laid no
foundation for it yet.
The Court–Oh, I don't think there will









OE THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
381
be any trouble about that.
Mr. Nye-We don't care about that par-
ticularly. -
The Court—You claim the note was an
open one, that anybody could read it?
Mr. Smith–We don't know anything
about it.
Mr. Erwin–We have also telegraphed
Miss Vedder, who was one of our witnesses,
and she has left the city without our
knowledge; she was a very important wit-
ness for us, and immediately finding out
that she had left the city, Mr. Sweetser
telegraphed her at Cherokee, Iowa, “Please
return on first train; it is necessary. Wire
answer.” That telegram was dated Feb.
26. And in answer to that he received a
telegram from her dated Feb. 26, as fol-
lows: “Impossible to come. Will write to-
night.” Now, I have not seen that letter,
what is the contents of it? - -
Mr. Sweetser–She states that she is
nearly down with nervous prostration by
reason of this matter.
Mr. Erwin–After receiving a response to
that telegram she sent, “Impossible to
come,” Mr. Sweetser telegraphed her by
night message last night, which would have
been delivered to her today, saying, “It
is necessary that you come at once; you
will be in contempt of court unless you
come at once. Wire answer.” She has
not wired an answer, and we are endeavor-
ing to get her. Now, if the court please,
I want to make a proposition—it is a great
surprise to us that this question of insanity
has been ruled out by the court, and we
are not prepared at this moment to go on
with our testimony. Our testimony is very
brief, but it will be very important. I
would like to now make this proposition—it
is now 15 or 20 minutes of 4 o'clock, and if
your honor and the jury would take an
hour tomorrow morning—we will be here
and commence at 9 o'clock, we will lose
no time, and we will put in the forenoon
gathering up the fragments of our testi-
mony, so we can probably close our case
before noon tomorrow, if your honor will
#. us that request, and adjourn at this
time.
The Court—Well, you can go on at this
time and read this statement of Mr. Blixt's
to the jury, and when you get to the
places that ought to be excluded I will
examine them.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, the copy
I have marked, and which I intended to
use, I have not with me at this time, and
I would like if your honor would allow me
º introduce that in evidence in the morn-
ng.
The Court—Well, I will accommodate
counsel once; but will say that in the fu-
ture, whether witnesses are here or not,
We will have to go right along and try
this case. You will take a recess until
tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock.
(Court here took a recess until 9 o'clock.)
MORNING SESSION, FER. 28.
Mr. Erwin–It is admitted that this is a
copy of THE TRIBUNE of Dec. 7, 1894. I
offer it in evidence to show that there was
not a word ever talked about Blixt in the
papers, or anywhere else, on Dec. 7, for
the purpose of showing that Mr. Adry
Hayward was laboring under a delusion
when he testified that the conversation be
tween himself and his brother was about
their pressing Blixt very hard.
Mr. Hall–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant, immaterial and no foundation
laid.
Mr. Erwin–I offer the article which is
published in THE DAILY TRIBUNE,
Dec. 7.
The Court—What paper did he say he
was reading?
Mr. Hall–He did not say what paper.
Mr. Erwin–I offer it.
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant,
immaterial and no proper foundation laid.
Mr. Erwin–It is understood that it is
admitted to be a copy of THE TRIBUNE
of that date.
Mr. Hall—There are several editions of
THE TRIBUNE.
Mr. Erwin–This is the 5 o'clock edition.
THE TRIBUNE was marked exhibit 13.
Mr. Erwin–Your honor, we have not the
papers here. I suppose there will be no
question about the public knowledge of the
fact that there was nothing known about
Blixt until next morning on, the 8th.
Everybody knows that. And I do not see
why it should be objected to. I will pro-
duce a copy of all the papers on that date
here in this city, and I ask time to pro-
duce them, and will put them in with this
offer, the Times and the Journal, the Press
and Globe and TRIBUNE. It is fixed on
the 7th, when they were in jail, after the
arraignment. I would like to have an op-
portunity to offer in evidence the other
loaderS.
The Court—Yes.
James C. Ward
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your business? A. Furni-
ture business.
Q. Did you know Mr. M. D. Wilson, the
man that keeps a livery stable here? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have a conversation with
him two weeks ago last Friday? A. I am
not certain as to the date; it was around
there; Thursday or Friday; I was up to his
barn.
Q. Did he say to you on that occasion,
in speaking of Harry: “They can do noth-
ing to him. I saw Adry out riding with
her that night; out on the boulevard 2*
A. I would not say positively that he said
Adry, but he said Harry–could not do
nothing to Harry, and that it was not
Harry—but as far as saying it was Adry,
I could not swear positively to that. He
said it was not Harry, and he said that
they could not do nothing to him. It was
not Harry.
Q. What is your best impression about
his saying Adry? A. That was my impres-
sion; it was Adry.
Mr. all—I move to have that stricken
out.
The Court—Motion granted.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. How came you to be at Wilson’sº
A. I went up to sell a log chain.
Had you gone there for the purpose
of inquiring of him about the Hayward
case? A. No, sir.
Q. Had the Hayward case been the sub-
ject of conversation before that time? A.
In the livery stable?
Q. Yes, sir. A. Yes,
sir. A man who













382
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
was there went out and we talked about it.
Q. Was there anything else said about
the Hayward case A. That is all.
Q. You said nothing to bring out the re-
mark? A. No, sir.
. You never asked him any question
about it? A. No, sir, I never spoke to him
about it.
Q. When did you first tell about this re-
mark that Mr. Wilson made? A. I was
sitting in my room one day, and there was
a young gentleman and lady up there, and
I was telling about it, and they were tell-
ing about how it read in the paper; and
they told me I ought to go and tell it.
Q. When did you first communicate your
information to the defense? A. I think it
was Tuesday, Monday or Tuesday.
Q. Tuesday after this occurrence? A.
Last Tuesday, a week ago, I think.
Q. It was within two or three days after
the time of the conversation that you re-
ported it? A. No, sir, it was two or three
weeks.
Q. At the time that you reported it, did
you tell them exactly what Wilson said?
A. Yes, sir, as near as I could remember
it.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin. -
Q. You came to us of your own accord?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. With another man? A. The man is
in the room; he is the only man ever spoke
to me.
Q. You have an impression now, haven’t
you, as to who he said was in the buggy?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant,
immaterial. -
Q. You need not state the man's name.
You have an impression now as to who he
said was in the buggy? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hall. Objected to as incompetent
and immaterial; and I move to strike the
answer.
The Court. Motion granted.
Mr. Erwin, Exception.
Q. Now, you told us, you told me, and
my clerk wrote down what you said, your
impression was; is it not in this state-
ment?
Objected to as incompetent,
and immaterial.
A. Yes sir.
The Court. The objection is sustained,
and the answer will be stricken out.
Mr. Erwin. I have no intention of prov-
ing what was in the statement. -
The Court. It is just the same thing to
prove what was said to you. - -
Mr. Erwin. I have no intention of prov-
ing what was said to me. Your honor an-
ticipates.
The Court. I have a right to anticipate.
Mr. Erwin. Not from me, your “honor.
Q. You never had but one conversation
with Wilson, and that is the conversation
you heard him admit on the stand, at the
time of that conversation? A. Yes, sir.
The Court—Wilson denied it.
Mr. Erwin–He admitted a conversation,
only one conversation with the man. He
denied the subject matter, but the fact of
the conversation he admitted.
The Court—I don’t thing he admitted the
fact of any conversation about Hayward
at all. That is my recollection.
Mr. Hall–Who was the main that you
told this to that is in the court room; who
irrelevant
-
was the other man that you told this to?
A. None that I know of.
Q. Didn't you say that ºthe other man
you told this to was in the court room 2 A.
No, sir.
Q: Who is the man that went with you
to see Erwin, is he in the court room? A.
Nobody went with me to see Erwin.
Q. Didn't you say there was a man went
with you to see Erwin and that he was in
the room, one other man? A. No, sir; I
said nothing of the kind. I said there was
a man told me I ought to report it.
Q. Was there a man with you when you
went to Mr. Erwin 2 A. No, sir; there was
not.
George F. Grindall
Recalled for further cross-examination.
Examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Do you know the Mace boys on the
east side of the river? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether you saw them
in the afternoon of that day, Dec. 3? A.
Don’t think I did.
Q. Did you have some difficulty with one
or two of them about 4 o’clock in the aft-
ernoon on the 3d of December? A. No,
sir; that thing happened last September.
Q. You are very positive that light was
right on First avenue north? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At 7 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. A gas lanpº A. Yes,
there.
a gas post
Paul Born
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. Where did you work last December?
A. Was working at the West Hotel.
Q. Did you know Miss Catherine Ging
by sight; she had a shop, a dressmaking
shop, at 65 Syndicate? A. Yes; I think I
would know her. I seen her when I gave
her at note. When I saw fier I did not take
much notice; I handed her a note and went
right out.
Q. Did you on the morning of the 3d of
December, Monday, deliver her a note from
the West Hotel? A. Yes, sir.
Q. From a man, a stranger? A. Yes, I
never seen him before. I saw him once be-
fore right at the Fifth street entrance.
Q. What time was it that you delivered
the note? A. Between 9 and 10 in the
morning.
Q. Did you deliver it to Catherine Ging
in person? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What kind of note was it, what size
and what shape? A. It was kind of a light
bluish envelope; about that long and so
wide (indicating).
Q. What kind of a looking man was he?
A. He was a heavy set fellow with a black
mustache.
Q. Have you ever seen him around there
since 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Did you ever see him there before,
except the one time that you saw him at
the Fifth street entrance? A. I would not
say for sure I had; I saw him going along
Hennepin avenue as I was standing there;
I thought I saw him going down there.
Q. Before or after this occurrence? A.
This was before.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. You say you saw a heavy set man
with a dark mustache? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he a very dark complexioned
man? A. No, sir, not very dark.
Q. He had no whiskers, just a mustache?
A. He did not have any whiskers.






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
383
-
Q. He was not gray? A. No, sir; he had
dark hair.
Q. A dark mustache? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Quite a heavy mustache? A. Yes,
quite heavy. -
Q. He was heavy set, that is, was he
rather short and broad shouldered? A. He
was not very tall; he was heavy set and
broad, and full faced fellow.
Q. Heavy set, broad and full faced. A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Dark mustached? A. Yes, sir; black.
Q. A young man, or a middle aged man?
A. A middle aged, I think; was not very
old or very young.
Q. About middle aged? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember whether he wore a
hat or capº A. A derby, I call it.
Q. Do you remember how he was dress-
ed? A. Dressed in a full black suit—a
Prince Albert suit, I think it was. A long
coat, and did not have any overcoat.
. A Prince Albert coat? A. Yes, I
think it was a Prince Albert coat; it was
long.
Q. Do you know whether it was a double-
breasted coat? A. I could not say for
sure whether double-breasted or not. -
Q. You are sure it was not a frock coat,
what you call a frock coat, with square
corners, double-breasted? A. I don’t know.
The Court—That is a Prince Albert.
Mr. Nye-I mean a double-breasted sack.
I should have said sack instead of frock.
Was it such a style of coat as this? (Illus-
trating.) A. No, sir.
Q. More of the style that my distin-
guished friend has here? (Referring to Mr.
Erwin.) A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did he say? A. He just asked
me if I wanted to earn a few cents by tak-
ing a note over there. I said yes. He
asked me if I wanted to earn a few cents
to take a note over to the Syndicate Block.
I said yes. He handed me the note, and I
started to run with it, and stopped, and
asked him the number of his room. He
said he was not stopping at the hotel, but
said he would pay me right there, and paid
me 15 cents, and I took it over there.
Q. What time was this? A. Between 9
and 10.
Q. This was right on the corner of Hen-
nepin and Fifth 2 A. On the Fifth street
side.
Q. Of the West Hotel? A. The West
Hotel.
Q. It was openly and publicly done, was
it? A. Yes.
Q. Nothing secret about it? A. No, sir.
Do you remember any peculiarity
about his voice? A. He had a rough
voice.
Louise Ireland
Recalled and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Do you recollect your aunt getting a
note that morning by this messenger? A.
No, sir.
Q. Do you recollect her getting a note
that morning at all? A. No, sir, I don’t
recollect her getting one.
Do you recollect her tearing up a
note that morning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. A note which she had received there?
A. I don’t know when she received it or
anything about it. I just saw her tear
it up. -
Q. How did she tear it up, in small
pieces? A. She slit it up and threw it on
the floor.
Q. Will you describe her manner when
she did that? A. She sat up straight in
her chair and tore it up.
Q. Was she angry at it?
just tore it as usual.
Q. Was she in the habit of tearing up
her notes? A. Those that she wanted torn
up she was.
Q. What time did you see her tear up
the note? A. Well, I think it was just
about 12 o'clock.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
Q. Harry was there about 12, was he?
A. I heard him there about half past 11,
I guess.
Q. It was after Harry came that you
saw her tear the note? A. It was after
Harry went I saw her tear the note, yes,
A. No, she
ir.
M. Hall–Gentlemen, I will now read the
first and second statements of Claus A.
Blixt, so much thereof as has been allowed
to be read to you by the court.
Mr. Erwin–And I would like the jury
cautioned at this time that this is only
for the purpose of showing a contradiction.
The Court–Yes, this is admitted for the
purpose of showing any contradiction—the
difference between the statements made at
two different times to the officers and the
mayor, and what he has testified to as a
witness in this case.
Mr. Erwin–The jury is bound to take
what was testified to by him, but this is
only admitted for the purpose of showing
any contradiction of his testimony.
The Court—Yes, you will be governed by
his testimony given by him to you in
court here, subject to any deductions you
may make by reason of any contradictions
in his statement.
STATEMENT OF C. A. BLIXT,
At the mayor's office, Sunday, December
9th, 1894.
By the Mayor:
Q. What is your name? A. My name is
Charles Albert Blixt. Charley they call me.
Q. Your age? A. I am born in 1857, I
believe.
Q. Do you desire to make a full state-
ment of your connection with this Ging
murder? A. Yes, sir, I do.
Q. Will you please state the first con-
versation you had with Harry Hayward in
reference to it? A. The first statement I
had with him in reference to this, that was
after he found out that I would not go to
Chicago.
Q. You came right back, did you? A.
Yes, sir. It was only across the street, and
of course they put it out. Then after that
he says, “You know what I want you to
set fire to that barn for?’’ ‘‘No,” I says, “I
can't.” He says, “Can't you think?” “No,
I don’t understand.” He says, “Well, you
know,” he says, “that I just wanted to prove
what nerve you have got,” he says, “that
is aſſº” Then he asked me again if I want
to make $2,000; I says, “How '2" Well then
he told me about what he could make this
girl do.
Q. Well, tell us what he said? A. Well,
now, he told me, he says, “You know that
I can make this girl go anywheres;” he
says, “where I please,” and he says, “I am
going to loan her some money,” he says,
“and I can get all the money back,” he
says, “and then she will will her life in-
surance to me,” he says, “and after she is




384 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
killed you see I will get the money,” he
says, “and the life insurance money, too;
you see the scheme?” he says, “that is a
good scheme,” he says. “Now,” he says,
“I want you to kill her,’ he says, “and I
will make her meet you anywheres in
town,” he says. Well, I told him that—
then I told him before I said anything, I
says, “That is the boldest thing I ever
heard, Harry.” I says, “That is the worst
story I ever heard of.” “Oh, pshaw,” he
says, “I rather shoot her than I shoot that
dog,” he says, “A good deal rather shoot
her or anybody else,” he says, “than that
dog; that is nothing.” Well, so he set the
day and he says, “Now, this day you have
got to do it.”
Now I says, “I won’t do it; Now Harry,”
I says, “if you speak about this any more
I will quit right now,” I says, “I will quit
and leave it right now; you must quit this
talking or I will get out.” And I was just
ready to quit, you know. Well, he says,
“I am going to do it myself when you are
such a fool,” he says. Well, I says, “What-
ever you do yourself,” I says, “I can't
help, but I can’t do it now; that is a fact.”
Well, he says, “You know what I want to
have you set fire to that barn for,” he says
again then, “No, I don't.” He says,
“Because you can't turn state's evidence
against me now,” he says, “because you
will get ten years in state's prison,” he
says, “if you do; that is why I wanted you
to set fire on that barn for,” he says.
Well, he says, “Now, if you don't come to
my terms,” he says, “your life is in dan-
ger,” he says, “you are just as much in
danger than you would be if you go and
kill her.” Well, I says “Now, I am going
to move; I am going to quit.” And I didn’t
care to tell my wife about it, because she
would have fainted, but I had it in my
mind to speak to my wife, because I didn’t
know what to do. So then he says, “Now,”
he said, “I have already made her go to
the livery stable,” he says, “and get a
horse and rig and go out and meet me any-
wheres I want to go,” he says, “nobody
sees me and her together, and I can
swear,” he says, “that I never was out
with her; she is out with somebody else;
you see,” he says, “some of these evenings
you will hear of a funeral, I will have her
killed.” Well, it was Saturday night, and
then he come along, and he says, “Well,
now,” he says, “I am going to do it; I
want you to cut that rail in two,” he says.
Q. That was a T rail, an iron rail? A.
Yes, “And I am going to take that under
my coat,” he says, “or right in the bugy,
she won’t suspect anything, and when I
get near to a curb stone where there is”—
what do you call those over a sewer?
Q. Manhole? A. Yes, a gutter, you
know, the sharp edge, he says, “I will
throw her in there, and that will prove,”
he says, “that it was an accident; because
that will make a mark in the head just
the same as it would if I had hit her
with this rail,” he says; well, I says, “That
is awful,” I says, “if you are going to do
such things.” Well, he says, “I ain’t afraid
of you,” he says, “because I have got
you, and you can't say anything.” Well,
I says, “I ain’t going to say nothing, but,
Harry, I think you would get money other
ways,” I says; “don’t do that.” “Never
mind,” he says, “I am going to kill her,”
he says, “it had got to be done, and it is
going to be done.” Well, so he came back,
and he says—he swore—and he said he
could not do it: “I could not find any
place,” he says, “where I could do it;" he
says, “Now, tomorrow night I am going to
kill her;” that was Sunday night. Well,
when we got to that time he says, “Well,
I am going to wait until tomorrow night,
but tomorrow night it is going to go,” he
says: “It is going to be no fake,” he says,
“it is going to go.” Then he told me, he
says, “You take the car and go right out
on the west side of Lake Calhoun,” he
says, “and stop anywheres there,” he says,
“and you will see me in the buggy when I
come along, and I will kill her,” he says.
“And you will take her and hold her back
until I come back down town in a hurry,”
he says, “and so they won’t suspect me;
and after you are sure that she is dead,
and everything is quiet,” he says, “you
will drop her off and let the horse go,” he
SayS.
Q. When did he tell you this? A. That
was, I think, about two weeks ago—well,
all this I have said, he said this talk about
Sunday.
Q. When did he tell you about you was
to go on the west side of Calhoun, when
was this last conversation, was that on
Sunday? A. That was on Monday he said
he was going.
Q. Now, go on and tell us all that was
done and said on Monday. A. That was
said on Monday.
Q. Now, go on and tell us everything
else that was said and done on Monday.
A. Well, this was Monday evening she was
killed. -
Q. Yes, she was killed Monday evening.
A. Well, now, didn’t I state about Mon-
day 2
Q. Yes, but now go on and tell us about
Monday evening; he came up to your house
—what time did he come up to the house?
A. Oh, yes; that I have not stated; I for-
got it; now, I have got to state about where
I went.
Q. Yes, tell us when he came to the
house, what was said, what time it was,
where you went, and all about it? A. Be-
fore he went?
Q. Yes, before you took the street car.
A. Oh, yes. When I left the house it was
15 minutes of 7.
Q. You had some talk with him before
you left—what was that? A: I asked him
if my wife could have the sewing machine
in his flat, and he said yes, and he says,
“Hurry up and go.”
Q. Well, didn't he tell you at that time
that the time had come now to do it, or
something of that kind? Didn't he come to
your room? A. After it was done?
Q. No, before you went out? A. No, he
didn’t come to my room. -
Q. Now, tell us what was said and done
before you went out on that ride? A. No.
he didn't say anything; he only said to me
to hurry up.
Q. You had made all of the arrangements
before? A. Yes, all the arrangements were
made.
Q. And he came to you at a quarter of 7,
did he, and told you? A. No, I went along
in the hall, you know, and when I came to
the hall door, the door was open, and I
asked him this, and then he said, "Hurry
up, now. You go on and I will be right
after you.” So I hurried.







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
385
Q: What did you do? A: I went and
took a car right off.
Q. A street car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Tell us just what you did; you went
out on Hennepin avenue and took a street
Call".
Q. To Lake street? A. To Lake street,
and then I run–
Q. Then you got off there? A. Yes, and
run around Lake Calhoun until—I showed
you the place.
Q. Until you reached the point where the
street car branches off. What was said
when you saw him in the hall? Something
was said? A. I don’t remember anything
that was said, more than I asked him if my
wife could have the sewing machine, and
in reply he said, “Yes, hurry up, and I will
be after you right away ’’
Q. “Hurry up and get out?”
sir.
Q. This was a quarter to 7? A. I think it
was a quarter of 7 when I left the base-
ment, and probably it was a minute later
when I was in the hall. That is all.
Q. You reached Lake street and then you
went around to the West side of Lake Cal-
houn, and stood up there where you
showed us today, did you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you reach there? A.
That puzzles me every time, that they
question me.
Q. A little after 7 o'clock, wasn’t it? A.
Well, you can think of that better your-
self.
Q. Tell me how long you had been there
before you saw Hayward? A. Well, I
stopped there, and I stood there a minute,
it was probably a minute or two.
Q. What did you see? A. Then he came
along, and I heard a shot nor far from me.
Q. He was coming in the buggy? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you know it was Hayward? A.
No, I was not sure until he came right up.
You were sure when you heard the
shot? A. Yes. That is what made it, you
know; I heard the shot, and I knew it was
him then, just as soon as he got up to me.
Q: What did he say to you? A. Then he
says, “Hurry up and get in, and take it
away, it is all done,” he says.
Q. What was he doing, and where was the
body of Miss Ging at the time? A. It was
on the seat on the left hand side.
Q. Sitting up? A. Sitting up.
Q. How did you hold it there, just de-
scribe it? A. She sat in the corner, like
this; I didn’t see, but she might have been
alive.
Q. Did you know she had been shot? A.
No, I didn't—I knew that she was shot,
because she didn’t move.
Q. You heard the shot? A. I heard the
shot. Then I dropped my hand on the robe,
A. Yes,
like that—the robe laid up against her when
I got in.
Q. The robe was up against her—was he
holding the robe up? A. No, I don’t know
what he was doing, but the robe was there
when I took the buggy.
Q. He jumped out? A. He jumped out.
Q. And you jumped in 2 A. I jumped in,
yes sir
Q What did he say to you when he drove
up? A. Well, he said, “it is done now,” he
says, “hurry up and take it away.” He
says, “be sure now and give me plenty of
. º get back before you bring the horse
ack.
Q: What else did he say? A. That is all,
*see that she is dead; don’t leave her be-
fore you are sure that she is dead.”
Q. Did he say anything about how much
time to give him? A. No.
Q. Now, tell us just what you did do? A.
Well, then, you know, I went along slowly.
Q. You got in the buggy? A: I went in
and I sat about this way, because I was
afraid. Then I went along on the walk all
the way, as I showed you, and when I got
about as far as so I didn’t dare to go any
further, I turned the horse around-
Q. Where you pointed out today? A. Yes,
sir. That was about a mile from there,
wasn’t it?
Q. Yes. A. Then I turned around and
came back, and when I thought I could,
you know, get her out of the buggy, I got
her out about that place.
Q. How did you get her out of the
buggy: A. Just like this, (illustrating) if
I should take you like this, and then I took
her legs and kind of pushed them over
the edge of the buggy. -
Q. Pushed her feet over the edge of the
buggy? A. Yes, and then she slipped out
herself.
Q. Whereabouts was this? A. I don’t
know the name of the place—the road.
Q. Was it the point where those stones
were today? A. Yes, that is where I told
you. I didn’t see the stones, but you know
what I said when I rode along.
Q. About that place? A. I could not
mention within a rod or two, but it was
some where near by there.
Q. Then, what did you do?
she was out?
Q. Yes? A. Then I started the horse on
a trot and went along.
Q. Then where did you drive to? A.
Then I drove around the lake, and up Lake
street, and got off the buggy between Du-
pont and Aldrich, no, Dupont and Emer-
son, I didn’t know where it was, but we
seen it today where it must have been.
Q. Then the horse went off on Lake
street? A. The horse went off on Lake
street, walking; but he started in a trot
after a little when he got to going.
Q. Where did you go? A. I went on the
sidewalk and walked up to Lyndale.
Q. Then what did you do? A. Then I
A. After
took the street car down town.
Mr. Hall. Then there was a part stricken
out?
Mr. Erwin. Yes, sir, the next is, “I can
talk about money.”
Q. What did he say about the money
now? A. Oh, yes, about the money; now I
can talk about the money?
Q. Yes. A. Well, he says, “You see,”
he says, “after everything is done,” he
says, “everything is done, then I get ten
thousand dollars on this life insurance, and
my own money all back, you see that?”
And then he says, “I will give you one-
fifth.” -
Q. Then he would give you one-fifth 2 A.
Yes, sir, that is, if I could do the killing;
but otherwise –
He was to give you one-fifth, was he?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What about the money she had on
her person? A. That was a fake; she never
had any money, I don’t think; of course, I
don’t know.
Q. She had some money the other day






386
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
when you went up there and signed the
note? A. Yes, but that is a long time be-
fore this time.
Q. Yes, it was a week ago, a week ago
about? A. Yes.
Q. Tell me how you came to sign it? A.
Well, I had to have a throttle valve, this
is true what I am telling you; and I went
down, he said, “Come down to the office,”
he says, “and I will go with you and buy
it today sometime,” he says; so I went
down at noon. He told me, he says, “come
down at noon,” he says, “and I will go
with you,” and I came down at
noon, and then when I came in
there that lady was sitting there and he
was writing something, I don't know
whether he wrote the notes this time or
some other paper; and when he got through
he told her to sign the note, and she went
and signed it, and then he shoved the
money over to her and told her
to go in the room and count it;
and at the time she was in the
room there he asked me if I wanted to
witness the note, and I says, “Yes, that is
all right.” And when he asked me
then he went out and got the
elevator man, and he witnessed it
before me, and then I witnessed it;
then when she came out he asked her if
the money was all right or not, and she
said, “It lacks $10.” “Well,” he says, “you
go in and count it again and come back;
you go in and count it and see if it isn’t
all right;" he says, “I know I have
counted it before.” Well, she went in and
she came back again, and she says, “I find
it all right.” That was nothing but a
scheme in there; it was just to blind me.
Q. It was to fool you? A. Yes.
Q. How much money did he tell you
there was there? A. Well, he said the
note was written for $7,000. I thought all the
time it wasn’t $7,000.
Q. Do you think there was $7,000 there
that day? A. No ; I don’t think it.
Q. How much do you think there was 2
A. Well, he told me there was only $2,000;
it wasn’t $7,000.
Q. Did he tell you what the scheme was
as to the difference between the $2,000 and
the $7,000 loan 2 A. Well, he said like this,
that he made her think that she would get
the money afterwards; he would give her
the $2,000 now and then the $5,000 after-
wards. And then he said, “I can make
her do anything, and I will get the money
all back again, you see. She don't know
why I do this, but I will just blind her,”
and then he says, “You see I make out
the note for $7,000, and I get all the money
back, and the note, and then after she is
dead I get the insurance,” he says, “and
the money for the note and everything,”
he says. Now, I can think about more
after a while, because there was more said.
Q. That is the substance of everything
that was said. Do you make this statement
of your own free will and accord 2 A. Yes,
sir; I do, because nobody was up there in-
quiring for me whatever.
By Chief Smith.
Q. You called me in? A. Yes, I called
the chief in.
By the mayor.
Q. You called the chief in and told him
you wanted to make a clean breast of it?
A. Yes. Well, I wanted to go to the chief
and mayor; I asked both the mayor and
the chief; that is what I wanted. I have
done this because I heard that his own
brother was telling the truth, and I un-
derstood then that the program was that
they had made me to hang, and I thought
to myself, if they want to do that they
might just as well know the truth then,
you know.
Q. Then, you make this statement of
your own accord; you asked to have the
chief and the mayor come to you and hear
your statement? A. Yes, sir; that is what
I want to make, because that is true. Any
one in the office can prove that. Well, I got
to do that—you see it made me cry when I
begin to think that they call me a murder-
er, and make me all this trouble, that the
boys turned it onto me.
Mr. Hall–That is all of his first state-
ment.
The Court–Now, gentlemen, when Mr.
Blixt was on the stand his attention was
called to the first statement he made, and
if this is the first statement that has been
read to you, or so much thereof as the
court thought was pertinent to this case.
Now, the next statement that will be read
to you will be the second statement.
Mr. Hall—This is the second statement.
The Court—The jury recollects perhaps
what he said in reference to the second
statement.
(Mr. Hall here read the second statement
made by C. A. Blixt at the city lockup,
Dec. 11, 1894.)
By Mr. Eustis.
Q. Now, you would like to make a full
statement of things as they exist, would
you, Mr. Blixt? A. Well, I don’t know
what you want me to do now.
Q. Well, you know the statement you
made Sunday was not quite correct. You
want to correct the statement that you
made on Sunday, and put it as it is? Now,
please state just exactly how things oc-
curred on Monday night; the rest of it we
have. Just tell us what time he came in 2
A. State what time he came in after it
Was done? -
Q. No, before it was done? A. He
came in, I think it was 5 o'clock in the
afternoon, and he had this whisky with
him then. Then he told me—that is, I told
him then that I didn’t want to do it, but
he said, “This is good,” and he says I
should take it: “You should take that,”
he says, and he had a bottle, and he took
and put that in front of me, and that I
should drink that, and I drinked it. Then
he said, made up the plan that I should go
with him, only a block apart, and then
when he got down at that place where he
told me to go, you know, I told you where
it was; he said that I should go up to the
buggy, and then he told me what he would
tell her. He told her that I should take
that rig and go out there where I told
you, anywhere around on the west side of
Lake Calhoun, “and there I will meet
you,” he said to her, “and then we will
change horses; I have got two horses, and
and I will change, and he will take that
rig, and I will take you home,” he says.
Q. Now, you have omitted to state when
this was that he told you this? A. At half
past 5, that he would do this.
Q. This was the plan he put out at half
past 5? A. That is what he said when he
came back.
Q. I know, but now, after he came in at



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
387
half past 5 and gave you the whisky—or
was it half past 7 or half past 5? A. No, it
was about 5 o'clock, I think.
Q. Then he came back again, didn't he,
and brought you the revolver? A. Yes,
slı”.
Q. Now, tell us about that time?
came and he gave me the revolver.
Q. At what time? A. That was right
after, and he gave me these extra cart-
ridges.
Q. When was that? A. I think that was
about 6 o'clock, or something; I don’t know
what time it was, as far as to what I
remember.
Q. Then what did he say from when he
brought in the revolver? A. Well, then he
said–or, just let me think now.
Q. Yes, just take your time? A. I am not
really able to do it; I remember it so well
sometimes.
(Showing revolver.) They have one of the
revolvers, just look at that? A. Oh, yes,
now I know what he said; yes, that looked
to be the same one.
Q. Is that the revolver he brought in to
you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what time did he bring that in 2
A. That was about between 5 and 6.
Q. Between 5 and 6 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then what did he say to you when
he brought you that revolver? A. He said
when I got this, “I have got this loaded with
a different kind of cartridges,” he says, “of
the same kind as I had in this box,” he
said, that he had hid, kept hidden, and he
says, “When you have shot, you take those
shells out; or these cartridges out,” and he
give me six of the other kind that belonged
to this revolver; and he says, “then you
take and destroy these, or put them some-
wheres,” he says, “and take and fill it up
with the others, and put that revolver un-
der my pillow when you come back,” he
SayS.
Q. Could you tell the cartridges if you
saw them? A. The same kind that was
in the first time?
Q. Yes? A. No, I never looked at them.
Q. Could you tell the cartridges the sec-
A. He
on time A. I could not ten them.
Q. You put the six cartridges in your hip
pocket, did you? A. Yes. He had six, and
he throwed them in my hand and I didn’t
examine them, just put them in here (the
pocket).
Q. What did you do with those six cart-
ridges? A. The other six cartridges I took
and throwed them in the furnace.
Q. Now, go on and tell us what you did;
at what time you left the hotel? A. No, I
never was to the hotel.
Q. The Ozark, I mean—what time did you
leave the Ozark? A. I left there at 15 min-
utes to 7.
Q. What did you do? A. Then I walked
right down—I walked out in the hall, and
when I come to the hall, the first en-
trance that goes into that flat, there he
stood, and I see him and he says, “Hurry
up now and go on, and I will be right
after,” and then my wife told me if I see
him I should tell him or ask him if she
could move up that sewing machine in
there and have her dressmaker use it; and
I asked him, I says, “Mr. Hayward, can
you let my wife have that sewing ma-
chine up here?” He says, “Yes, hurry on,
go on,” he says. That is all. Then I went
out. -
take mine.”
Q. Then what did you do? A. He didn't
want me to say anything, and I walked
out then; I stayed just about as much of a
time as I can go between Mr. Smith (the
chief of police) and me; probably not quite
a minute. Then I walked along down Hen-
nepin, and when I come along down Hen-
nepin not far from where that street
comes in—what do you call it?
Q. Kenwood boulevard? A. Kenwood
boulevard, then I stopped at the corner
and looked back, and he was along.
Q. Did he go down the same street with
you? A. The same street.
Q. He came up behind you, did he? A.
Yes. - -
Q. Then what? A. Then he cut across
that vacant lot—there is a vacant lot there,
and he whistled to me, and I followed the
sidewalk down; and when he cut across
there, there is another street comes in
there, then he run across, and she came,
I don’t know where she came from, but he
whistled at her and stopped her, and she
drove to one side of the street, on the left
hand side of the street, close to the Lowry
Block in there.
Q. Just beyond the livery stable? A. No,
I don’t know as there is any livery stable.
Q. Yes, there is a livery stable right
there. Is Lowry’s big yard near there? A.
Yes. It was dark, you know, and I never
used to go down there; never used to be
down there, so I couldn't tell.
Q. Now, tell us what took place there?
A. So he told her then what I told you.
Q. Well, I want you to tell it now, you
know? A. He says, “Now, I want you to
take him in and drive you up there around
Lake Calhoun: go up here on the Hennepin
boulevard and go around Lake Calhoun,”
he says, “and I will meet you there with
two horses; and when I meet you he is to
take my rig, he is to exchange with me,
and then I will take you home and he will
That is all.
Q. Wasn't there anything said about oth-
er men? A. No, that ain’t all—yes, that
is all. Then I got into her carriage—
Q. If there was anything else said there,
state it? A. Well, he said to go; he told
me to hurry up and go along—go ahead.
Q. Did she object to going with you? A.
O.
Q. Did he give any reasons why he didn’t
go? A. No.
Q. Did he say anything about any other
men 2 A. No, not until I got into the
buggy. Then after I got in the buggy she
said, “Where is these men to meet us?”
I says, “Well, I don’t know”—
Mr. Erwin–That is all stricken out, what
she said in the buggy, that was stricken
out in the testimony and I ask to have it
stricken out of the statement.
The Court—Yes, it will be stricken out.
Q. Then you drove down Hennepin ave-
nue? A. Yes.
Q. Any other conversation with her? A.
No.
Q. Go on and tell us just how fast you
drove and where you went? A. I drove
on a common trot; the way the horse would
trot of his own; he would trot along pretty
fast, you know, pretty good jog.
Q. Until you came to Lake street? A.
Yes. I turned down there.
Q. And then went along Lake street? A.
Yes.
Q.
Where did you have your revolver?






388
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
A. I had it in my coat pocket; but I took
it out, you know, and I had it here; and
she says, “What have you got there?” and
I showed her that I had a revolver, be-
cause I says that Hayward spoke about it
is dangerous here; and she said, “Yes, we
were, Hayward and me and another girl—
I don't remember the name—was held up
here, around here somewhere,” she said.
That is all.
Q. Whereabouts was this? A. That was
on the other side of the ice house, there
somewhere.
Q. Go on and tell us just what occurred
after that?
A. I drove up where I told you, right
along on the road; and when I got to the
street car track there, I went across, you
know, and then I walked slow; the horse
walked slow all the time.
Q. Did you have any conversation there
with her? A. No. She was looking out
and didn't say nothing. Looking for him,
I suppose. Then I was wondering, think-
ing how I should do this; and I tried a
good many times that I should do it, you
know, and I had to leave it go; and then I
know that I give her the robe, because I
took the robe off so I didn’t have no robe
on my knees; I intended I should jump
out; I was thinking about that, if I jump
out it would be best for me, I thought; I
had that in mind to jump out of the buggy
and leave it go; and then it held me back,
and I kept working myself back and forth
in my mind that way, and the horse kept
going, you know, until I got away far out,
and then you know, at least you see I got
the revolver and made the shot. She was
going out with her head, and I made the
shot; and I never knew how that I did
have nerve to bring the revolver up to
shoot; and I never realized ſhow I did ever
get the revolver up. I never could come
to the conclusion how I did have strength
to do it; no, and I don’t remember how
long—how much further I went on; but I
went on as I told you, and then turned the
horse and come back; and I kept the robe
up against her, and was scared, you know,
that she should come out, or something
like that, you know. And then I made the
calculation that I wanted to get rid of her
some way or another, and I moved her feet
out of the box and she slipped out of her-
self. That was the end of it; and then I
took the horse along, just the same as I
showed you up there, on Lake street, until
I got—
Q. Now tell us about when you got
back to the Ozark; what time did you get
in 2 A. No, I don’t know the time; but
what my wife said, that must have been a
mistake about what she say.
Q. What time did you come in? A. To
the Ozark?
Q. Yes, and what did you do? A. When
I come into the Ozark, I went in my bed-
room and went to bed.
Q. No, but what uld you do first, if
anything; when you first came into the
Ozark where did you go? A. I went down
the elevator.
Q. What did you do with your revolver?
A. Oh, yes; that has got to be plain; I
took it into his room.
Q. Whose room º A. Harry's room.
Q. Harry Hayward's room? A. Harry
Hayward's room, and I changed those
cartridges and put in those six that he told
me, and put the revolver under the pillow.
Q. Under whose pillow? A. Under Hay-
Q. What did you do with the other car-
tridges? A. I put them in the furnace.
Q. That you took out? A. Yes, I put
them in the furnace.
Q. Did anybody come to your room that
night after the murder? A. No, not but
Harry. He came in there after he came
back from the theater; he came back there,
and he came in the room, and he bowed
his head this way, and then he went out
again. That is all I heard of him.
Q. Now, when was the first time you
saw Harry Hayward on this Monday morn-
ing? A. He came down early in the morn-
1113.
Q. What did he do or say to you when
he came down; when you first saw him that
Monday morning? A. He said that he had
those things with him.
Q. What things? A. That was a gold
watch, a box of cartridges and a roll of
money.
Q. How big a roll of money was it? A.
The roll of money was about two inches
acroSS.
Q. Bills rolled up together? A. Rolled
up together with a string around it.
Q. What did he do with those things?
A. He said, “I want you to help me hide
Q. Hide it? A. Yes, hide it. He said,
“I want you to take a tin box, and put this
watch in there and solder it together,” he
says, “and after that I will take it and
put it away somewheres in the woods,” he
Q. Now, when he went away from you,
where did he put the box? A. He took it
in his hands; I didn’t look at him, whether
he put it in his pockets, or he had it in
his hands.
Q. He had the box in his hands? A.
Yes, and the roll of money.
Q. And the roll of money? A. And the
box of cartridges.
Q. How big a box was this and what
kind of a box? A. The cartridges?
Q. No, the box that the watch was in 2
A. It might be in a circle like this (indi-
cating).
Q. Three or four inches? A. Yes, about
four inches across probably.
Q. Was it a flat box? A. It was about
two inches high.
Q. Did you do anything to the box when
he asked you to solder it? A. Yes; I took
and soldered the cover over it; put the
watch inside and then soldered the cover.
Q. Have you any idea where it is? A.
My wife has the principal–she told Mr.
Hall what she thought; she looked for it.
Q. Possibly where it might be? A. Yes.
He told me he was going to put it in the
woods; but whether he did or not I couldn't
say a word about. But my wife, she has
taken care of his room, you know, and
she know anything lost in his room, and
she said that there was one of the trunks
there with canvas around it that was
taken upstairs in his father's and mother's
department.
Q. How long ago? A. Didn't you ask
my wife about that? I couldn't say.
Q. It was the other day; about that time
it was moved? A. You know my wife
know all about this; I don’t.
Q. Did he ever say anything to you at
any other time about these three articles






or THE HAyvy ARD MURDER TRIAL
389
that you described 2 A. No. He came
down with them and he said–
Q. Never mentioned it? A. No. He said
he wanted them hidden, so there would
be no clue to find me, he says.
Q. About what time was it? Monday
night you had this talk and he went away?
A. When he came down with these?
Yes. A. That was early in the morn-
ing. I think between 8 and 9.
Q. How long a time were you soldering
it up and having this talk with him before
he went away? A. No ; he went away
and I soldered it and had it ready when
he came back. -
Q. Then when did he come back after
it? A. I don’t remember if that was in
the forenoon, or he took it in the after-
noon.
Q. Did he leave the money too? A. No.
Q. Or the cartridges? A. No. He had
the cartridges and the money.
Q. In his pocket? A. In his pocket.
Q. And you got the watch? A. Yes. I
soldered the watch up in the tin box, and
he took that and all.
Q. What time of day did he take the
watch? A. He took that in the afternoon.
I don’t know what time it was in the after-
noon. When he went out.
Q. About what time? A: I can't re-
member if this was in the forenoon or af-
ternoon he took that out; he took that right
after I had soldered it.
Q. Can you describe anything of the ap-
pearance of that watch? A. Yes, it is a
gold watch, gold cases, and I think, if I
ain’t mistaken there is a horse on one side.
Q. A whole horse, or a horse's head? A.
I can’t remember if it is a deer or it is a
horse; I can’t remember which.
Q. Is it an open face or a hunting case?
A. No, it is a hunting case.
Q. Was there a chain on
no chain on it.
Q A large or small watch? A. Let me
see your watch. (Watch shown witness.)
Well, it was a little bigger than that.
Q. (Showing another watch.) Bigger
than this, too? A. Yes.
Q. Was it ground in or engraved in the
case? A. No, it was engraved.
Q. Did you open it to see if there was
any marks on the inside? A. No, I never
opened it.
Q. Did he tell you anything about where
he got that watch? A. No, nor I didn’t
ask him; but I think he must have stole it
or something—I don’t know.
Q. Do you know whether it was the
watch that he usually carried? A. No, he
had his.
Q. He had his own watch? A. Yes, he
had his own watch.
Q. Had you ever seen that watch before,
or had he ever told you about it? A. No,
he never told me about that before.
Q. Were you up in his rooms on Sun-
day? A. No.
Q. Have any talk about these things
Sºunday? A. No. I didn't go up in his
rooms never. -
Q. Did you have any talk Sunday about
preparing this—talk about this thing? A.
Yes, he was down Sunday, too, you know.
I can't remember how many times, but
then he was down there; kept going; kept
talking that same thing just as soon as he
had a chance. He tried to get me to kill
it? A. No,
her sunday evening and I told him I could
not do it; and so he give it up Sunday, too.
He said, “Do you know that accidents
happens in elevators” I says, “Yes, I
have heard that there is accidents hap-
pened in elevators.” He says, “What do
you say if I take a hammer—if I would go
up in the elevator with her, and you, *
the elevator, and I take a hammer and hit
her in the head, and she falls down, would
you run the elevator then and not stop?”
he says. I says, “No, I don't want to do
that.” Se he had to give that up.
Q. Well, did he explain how 2 A. Yes.
He says, “I hit her with a hammer in the
head, and she drop down, and You º the
elevator, keep her going with the elevator,
and she get in between and that will mash
her head, so that they can't tell how it
was done,” he says. And so I told him I
can’t do that. “well, I have got ten
schemes and they are all good he says:
And then he had to give that up. He kept
going that way with me right along.
Q. Was she to be in the elevator? A.
Yes, sir. -
Q. And he hit her in there? A. Yes. ->
Q. Did he mention any other scheme?
A. He could not do that you know anv
other way, and I think he meant to open
the door I guess, and drop her down you
know; and he said, “would you star. the
elevator if I do this?” Then I told him
could not do it, and so he had to give it
up; but I believe that he will o, ºn time
door and hit her in the head with the
hammer, and slie would have fell down,
and then he wanted to keep the elevator
going, and she would got her head betwº
you know, witer, she would go up-don't
you see.” He could not do it. any otº ºr
way, because when the doors is shut you
can't get hurt in the elevator, you º
Q. Well, was this talk Sunday or some
other time before Sunday? A: No, this
was sunday that he mentioned that.
Q. Did he outline any other scheme Sun-
day? A. I can't remember if he had any
other schemes—yes, I remember now; he
said, “If I can't kill her any other way,
I will do like they do East;” he says,
“they have stabbers there, and they al-
ways stab them through the heart. º
they know how to stab,” and he says, “I
can do that just as well as not,” he says.
That is what he said. “If I can’t kill her
any other way, I will stab her,” he says
Did you see her when sine canne down
in the elevator Sunday? A. No. -
Q. After you talked with Harry about it?
A. No, I never run the elevator during the
day.
Q. Was she in the elevator when you
was there, do you remember? A: Yes, I
heard that story-
Mr. Erwin.-Now, that is struck out,
from “Was she in the ulevator,” down to
the question, “When did you first talk,”
and so forth.
Q. when did you first talk about going
out on this drive, about this plan. When
was that plan made up? A. That was
some days before that. He said to me
that he had a plan that he would take out
the rigs and he meet her, and then he get
a rig and drive around, and he take hers
home, and then the livery man take her
home and take the rig back. He spoke
about that. I don't remember—a couple of











390
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
days or so. He said he would not have any
difficulty, because I remember he says, “I
have already had her out that way, and
she does it all right;" so that it must have
been Friday or Saturday, or something like
that.
Q. Did Harry ever tell you anything
about where he put that piece of T iron?
A. No. When he came back he said, “I
could not do it, I looked all over and I
could not make it an accident,” he said,
“and so I throwed the iron —” no, he says,
“She asked me – —” I said to him, “Why,
didn’t she make a remark, about the piece
of iron you had 2* “Yes,” he said. “Well,
how could you explain that,” I said. He
said, “Well, I told her that I left it—was
going to leave it on the road for a road
mark.” So he dropped that iron some-
wheres there, I don’t know where he
dropped it, but I thought some of the de-
tectives could easily hunt it up, because
I know he was not near any river.
He might be quite a ways on that—what-
ever you call that— - -
Q. Kenwood boulevard? A. He might
have been out somewheres near around
there, you know. But I kind of mistrust
that, because he told me always that he
should drop her on one of these covers; but
for the loss of that hope he might have
went down that way, I don’t know. I don't
know where he left it. If I knowed I
would be so willing to go there and show
you where he had that piece. I would do
anything at all, but I can’t. But I thought
that it would be found probably, because
he said he was going to kill her with that
Iron. I have got that man that seen where
I cut the iron.
Q. Who is he?
Barlow.
Q. Where does he live? A. He lives up—
he used to run a street car. I can’t remem-
ber the street there—I used to call them—
it is Aldrich, and Bryant, and Colfax, and
Dupont, and Emerson, and Fremont, Gi-
rard, Hennepin, Humboldt, and then Thir-
ty-second, you know. I used to call the
streets, you know; I think he lives on
Bryant.
Q. Do you know about the number? A.
I don’t remember. But I will tell you how
to find that man. His name is Peterson,
and he sells electric bells.
Q. I thought you said his name was
Hans Barlow 2 A. Where this man Hans
Barlow lives.
Q. Hans Barlow lives with Peterson, and
Peterson sells electric bells? A. Yes, sir.
And if he don’t live with Peterson—I don't
know, but I understood he lived with Pe-
terson. Mr. Peterson can tell where Hans
Barlow lives.
Q. Peterson lives out on Bryant avenue?
A. Yes, if you go on Bryant avenue, close
to the stone yard and inquire for Peterson,
you will find him. - -
Q. Did this Hans Barlow help you in
cutting the iron bar? A. Yes, sir, he did.
Q. When was this done? A. I cut that
Saturday afternoon.
Was Harry there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was Harry there? A. He can tell you
more about what time it was, probably.
Q. Was he there when you cut it? A.
Harry was there bossing me, you know.
Q. When Hans Barlow was there, too?
A. Yes, when Hans Barlow was there.
He took hold of it and turned it, and he
A. His name is Hans
made a blind to Hans Barlow; after I cut
it he says, “Pshaw, you didn’t get that
right.” He was there when I throwed in
the rail in the fire. He told me to throw it
in,
and then he went away somewheres,
and then he came back, and then we had it
cut; Hans and me had it cut, and then he
said: “Oh, pshaw, you didn’t get that
right, because I wanted that crooked to
hang up for a sign in the walls.”
Q. Curved? A. Yes. Hans can tell that,
too. That was to blind.
Mr. Hall. Then cut out down to the bot-
tom of the tenth page?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, down to “What did he
say to you on the 24th of November,” and
so forth.
Q: What did he say to you on the 24th
of November, the day when you had been
up to witness the note? A. Was that the
24th 2
Q. Yes, when she went over to the bank,
or over to the vault, and put the money in
and you and he were left there alone, don't
you remember? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did he say to you then? A: Oh,
I don't remember as he said anything else,
but he said that he will soon be ready
now, so he says to go. I remember he said
that.
Q. Did he say anything about killing her
then—what did he mean by that—to go up
to the house? A. No, he was going to
buy a bell.
Mr. Erwin–That word should be “valve.”
Q. Had there been anything said at that
time– A. He didn't say anything to me
about killing her or anything then; he only
mentioned to me at the time when he had
this note, that I supposed I should not
think anything wrong, he says, “It is an
awful good thing to have such a note as
this witnessed, because it is quite a big
loan, you know.”
Q. You saw the money that was there?
A. Yes, he showed me—no, he didn't show
me, but the money was lying on the end of
the table like this, and I went around and
sat around in a chair, then I witnessed the
note. -
Q. Was there two packages or one pack-
age? A. Two packages.
Q. were they marked 2 A. No-I don’t
know, but I see on the corner of the bills
that it was $20 bills on some bills.
Q. When she took the money. did she run
it through and count it? A. No. She took
the money and went in another room, an
adjoining room, and she counted them, and
she come out, and then he asked her when
she come out was it right, and she º:
“I thought it lacked $10 of being right,
she says. “Well,” he says, “I counted it
over a good many times, and you had bet-
ter go in and count it again,” so she went
in again, you know, and she counted it,
and then she comes out and said it was
all right.
Q. Well, then, what further was done,
where did she go? A. Then she went out.
through the door and went down the ele-
vator, I expect; of course, when she shut
the door I couldn't tell.
Q. Did he say anything to her before
she went out where she was to go? A. No.
She said, “I am afraid now I might drop
dead,” she says. I remember that, because
anybody probably would have made the ex-
ression that had money.
". Did you see her again that day? A.
No. I went around, and he went with me,



OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 391
and we got that valve, and then when we
got that valve we took the Hennepin ave-
nue car; we walked out First street.
Q. You told me the other night that she
came back; do you remember whether or
not she came back after you went out? A.
I thought before we went that she came
back; I don't know whether I could swear
to that or not, but I kind of think that
she came back after she went out again.
Q. Did you ever have any talk with him
about it? A. No, I didn't.
Q. About the money? A. No. He told
me afterwards, you know, that he had this
done, this scheme, to get both her life
insurance and this money back; he says,
*I have got that money back, you know.”
Q. When did he tell you that? A. That
he told me those days that he had—this
time when he had these plans to get her
killed.
Q. When was that, how soon after that
Saturday? A. That was Friday or Sat-
urday he spoke to me, I can't say which.
Was that the 24th I got the valve?
Q. Yes, the 24th. A. And this Friday
and Saturday—what day was that?
Q. This Saturday would be the 1st. A.
Oh, yes, yes, that is all right.
Q. That is the day you got the iron bar 2
A. Yes, I got the iron bar.
Q. The next day would be Sunday? A:
Yes. He told me then, you know, about
her going around in the restaurant and
showing this money, and having it rolled
up, and about the waiter, you know; and
he made the remark that this girl was a W-
ful careless in carrying around such big
bills, and the waiter was astonished over
it to see so big bills. - -
Q: Who told you this–Harry said this
to you? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What did he say it was done for 2 A.
He said that it was done for a blind; he
said he made her so as that she would do
that. Then he said, “I had her in St. Paul,
too, and do the same thing there.”
Q. How soon after the day when you
saw the money turned over to her, was it
that he said he had the money back? A.
I don't remember how soon afterwards;
but he told me I guess those days that he
had this concern figured out, that she was
going around in the restaurant and show-
ing all this.
Q. Did he ever tell you where she had
put the money for a while? A. No. That
was a blind to me. I didn’t know that un-
til Mayor Eustis or some one told me that
she had it in the vault or something; or
I don’t remember if anyone told me, or if
it was in the paper or whatever it was.
That I didn’t know. (Shown two boxes of
cartridges.) It was a box of that color;
yes, it was this color.
Q. These are 38's; did those have a “U”
on the end—did you notice that? A. Oh,
no, I didn’t notice that.
Q. Did you notice the box? A. Yes.
Now, it puzzles me again if I ever looked
at it enough to know whether it was the
right box; a red box or a box like that.
I don’t remember that now. That is a
fact. I thought it was kind of an old
box or something with a string around it,
if I ain’t mistaken.
Q. This one is broken? A. Yes, it was
a kind of an old box; I thought it was: I
don’t think these are the boxes, none of
e.
Mr. Erwin–Now, this goes in as the sworn
testimony of Mr. Hitchcock, that he took
the stenographic notes and this is there-
fore the sworn testimony of Mr. Hitch-
cock.
The Court—Yes, this is the sworn testi-
mony of Mr. Hitchcock, so far as it is ad-
missible in contradiction of Mr. Blixt's
testimony on the stand.
Claus A. Blixt.
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Where, Mr. Blixt, were you the last
week in December and first week in Janu-
ary last? A. Well, I don’t know. I sup-
pose I was in jail.
Do you know Mr. C. A. Warren, who
was a deputy sheriff at that time? A. I.
may know him, but I don't know him by
the name. -
(Mr. Warren was requested to come for-
ward.) -
Q. Do you know that gentleman? A.
Yes; that is the watchman, ain’t it?
Q. Did you, during the last week in De-
cember or the first week in January, in the
jail, in answer to a question by Mr. War-
ren, “How did you avoid getting blood on
you?” reply, “I had the robe between us.”
And in answer to the further question from
Mr. Warren, “How did you avoid getting
blood on your feet?” answer him as fol-
lows: “I didn’t have my feet in the buggy,
they hung outside?” A. No; I didn't say
that.
Q. Did you say anything similar in mean-
ing 2 A. I might have said the rest of it,
but I didn't say I had my feet outside, be-
cause I didn’t have my feet outside.
Q. All I want is for you to answer that
question? A. Yes; that is right.
C. A. Warren
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Where were you employed the last
week in December and the first week in
January 2 A. I was employed as deputy
sheriff under James H. Ege.
Q. Do you know Claus A. Blixt, who
just left the witness chair? A. I do.
Q. Did you have facilities for conversa-
tion with him in December? A. Yes, sir.
I relieved the regular watchman several
days during the week while he went to
lunch; took his place; Mr. Conoley.
Q. Did you during your conversation with
Mr. Blixt at that time ask him this ques-
tion, “How did you avoid getting blood on
you?” and Mr. Blixt reply, “I had the robe
between us,” and in answer to the further
question—did you ask the further question,
“How did you avoid getting blood on your
feet?” and did he reply, “I didn't have my
feet in the buggy, they hung outside?” A.
Yes, sir.
Q. This conversation was with regard to
the murder of Miss Catherine Ging? A.
Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Nye.
Q. By whom were you employed after
you left the services of Mr. Ege? A. I.
haven't been employed by any one, sir.
Q. Haven't you been in the employ of the
defense in this case in any way? A. No,
sir.
Q. You had nothing to say or do about
-



392
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
any juryman before the jury was empan-
elled in this case? A. Not one, sir.
Q. How many times did you talk with
Blixt about what he knew about the case?
A. Oh, I don’t know how many times; I
don’t remember exactly how many times.
Q. Is that a custom of deputies or keep-
ers to converse as to the merits of cases
With prisoners? A. Well, no, it is not; when
I went in there he was a telling me the
form and way that he did the work, and
as he was going along I would now and
then ask him a question.
Q: What made you think if Blixt sat by
her side with the buffalo robe up there that
blood would necessarily get on his feet? A.
Well, sir, I will explain to you now why
he said that. I says, “Mr. Blixt, where did
you change your clothes?” He says, “I
didn't change them.” “Well,” I says,
“How did you avoid getting blood—how.
do you account for the blood on the bow
of the carriage?” He says, “I didn’t have
any blood on me, I kept the robe between
us.” I says, “Well, there has been blood
on the bottom of the buggy, how did you
avoid getting it on your feet?” He Says,
“My feet hung out of the buggy, they were
not in the buggy,’ and that was about all
that was said in regard to the matter.
Q. Did you ask him if he rode on the
whole trip with her with his feet hanging
out of the buggy? A. No, sir, I didn't.
Q. Had you ever seen the buggy? A. No,
sir, I never saw it until I saw it setting
here.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q: Who began the conversation with re-
gard to this matter in the cell? A. Mr.
Blixt.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, we have
at the present time no other witnesses pres-
ent, and we therefore rest our case with
the court and jury.
The Court–Do you want to reserve the
right to put in those papers if you find
them 2
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir, the daily papers of
the 7th of December, for the purpose of
showing that Mr. Blixt's name was never
mentioned in the daily papers, and thereby
contradicting Adry's statement in the jail
that “They are pressing Blixt hard?” as he
testified.
(By request of Mr. Nye the court here
took a recess for five minutes.)
Oliver G. Torrence
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Were you over near the scene of the
homicide of Miss Ging on the night of De-
cember 3d? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear the testimony of Officers
Bean, Plummer, Getchell and others about
footprints or foot tracks found in the vicin-
ity of the place where the body of Miss
Ging was discovered, found on the road?
A. Not that night, no, sir.
Q. You didn’t hear their testimony? A.
No, sir.
Q. It was testified to by them–
Mr. Erwin–Wait. There is no founda-
tion laid to impeach these officers.
Mr. Hall–It is not for the purpose of in-
peaching officers. It is for the purpose of
explaining. It is not impeaching testimony,
but is rebutting testimony.
Mr. Erwin–Then the testimony is imma-
terial.
The Court—Overruled
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Were you over in that vicinity that
night? A. Yes, sir. That evening I in-
tended to go–
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial.
Q. Well, who did you go with? A. I
went with Mr. Jones and Mr. Lane.
With reference to the time of the air-
rival of the patrol wagon when was it you
got there? A. We started to walk over,
and the patrol wagon overtook us, and
asked us if we didn't want to ride, and we
got in the patrol wagon.
Q. Did any of the gentlemen who were
with you or did you yourself have on
pointed shoes?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial as
yet.
Q. Well, did you get out of the patrol
Wagon in the vicinity of the body? A. Yes,
Slr. -
Q. Did the other gentlemen get out? A.
Yes, sir. This side of the body. First we
walked up to the body and observed about
its position, and we were there several
minutes before the body was taken up, and
we walked about in that vicinity.
Q. You walked about— A. On all sides
of the street.
In what direction from the body? A.
I couldn't say; in all directions from the
body; from one side of the street to the
other. -
Q. Did either you yourself or any of the
other gentlemen who were walking about
at that time described have pointed shoes?
A.. I couldn't say as to that.
Q. Did you yourself? A. I don't think
you would call them pointed toes, no, sir.
Q. The ones you have on now? A. No,
Sir.
Q. Well, what sort of shoes were they?
A. They were No. 8's—
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial.
The Court–Overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. What sort of a sole did they have?
A. A thin sole.
Q. What sort of toe? A. Rather round-
ing; I don’t think you would call them a
pointed shoe, or exactly—
Q. Do you know as to the shoes worn by
any of the other gentlemen? A. No, sir.
Q. They were not razor toes, but they
were more pointed than those? A. I.
couldn't say.
Q. While you were there did anybody
else drive up? A. Yes, sir.
Q: Who was it? A. Dr. Russell and his
Son.
Q. Did you notice where the buggy driv-
en by Dr. Russell and his son drove or
stopped or turned around? A. At this time
the patrol wagon had started up and went
forward about 10 feet, and I think Dr. Rus-
sell's buggy stopped 10 or 12 feet to the rear
of where the body was. -
Q. Did any body else come up while you
were there? A. Yes, sir; there was Mr.
Lane, that didn't come on the patrol
wagon; Mr. Jones and I got on the patrol
wagon, and he came up afterwards.
Q. Was there any other buggy came up
while you were there? A. No. sºr:
Q. (By the Court.) Where did Dr. Rus-
sell's buggy turn, this side or the other
side of the body? A. This side of the
"... no. many people all told were there







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 393
about when you were there?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as already hav-
ing been placed in testimony, six or eight
witnesses having been sworn on that in
chief.
The Court–Objection sustained. That is
hardly rebuttal.
(The witness was not cross-examined.)
M. J. Griffin
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. What is your business, Mr. Griffinº
A. Paper hanger and callsoniner.
Q. Do you know Mr. W. W. Hayward?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever been employed by him 2
A. Yes, sir, since last August.
Q. What work have you been doing for
him? A. Paper hanging, callsomining and
some painting.
Q. Through the houses that he had
charge of as rental agent? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have occasion to go to his
office during the month of November, the
later part of November? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember any particular oc-
casion or time when you called at the of
fice of Mr. Hayward in the Oneida block?
A. On Friday, Nov. 30, in the forenoon,
about 10:30.
Q. Do you remember who were in the
room or who was, at the time you called
—at the office of Mr. Hayward in the
Oneida block? A. Harry and Adry Hay-
Ward.
Q. Do you know whether or not Mr. W.
W. Hayward was in his room at the time
you called? A. No, he was not, because I
go right to his room every time I go in.
Did you make any inquiry for Mr. W.
W. Hayward as you stepped into the room?
A. I did; Adry answered and said he
hadn’t got around yet.
Mr. Erwin–I ask that that be stricken
out as not responsive to the question.
There was no chance to object to it. It is
a declaration of Adry Hayward.
Mr. Hall–Harry was present.
The Court—You need not state the con-
versation. That may be stricken out.
Q. For whom, if anybody, did you in-
quire as you stepped in the office? A. Well,
I just said, “Your father”—
Q. Not what you said, simply if you in-
quired for anybody? A. For Mr. Hayward.
For which one? A. The father of
the boys. -
Q. Was he there at that time? A. No,
sir.
Q. Were you told where you could find
him? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you have any other business than
to see Mr. W. W. Hayward at that time?
A. No, sir, nothing else.
Q. How long did you remain in the of—
fice? A. Not over two minutes or so.
Q. You stepped out? A. Stepped out
just as soon as I found out he wasn’t
there.
Q. And who did you leave in the office
as you stepped out? A. Harry and Adry.
Q. Were you informed by anybody there
you could find him? A. No, I was not.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. How do you know that this was on
the 30th of November? A. Well, it is very
plain; the next day was the first of the
month, and Adry came down to the block
to collect rent, and he stopped at my place.
Q. Well, how do you know that this was
the 30th of the month that you were in
there—what connection? A: Well, I went
up north, up to Flannagan's, on the cor-
ner of Fifth and Bryant avenue north,
about a job of papering there; I was on my
way there.
Q. What day was you in the office next
before the 30th of November? A. Well, I
guess it was four or five days.
Q. Well, what makes you remember that
you called there on the 30th more than any
other day—more than the 29th, more than
the 28th 2 A. Well, I knew I wasn’t there
the 28th; I know I was there the 30th.
Q. What makes you know you were
there the 30th.” A. Well, I remember Adry
being at the house and told me that the
old man had work for me to do, on the
1st, when he was out collecting the rent;
that was just the day after I was there on
the 30th.
Q. That is all you can tell the jury as to
what causes you to put the time as on the
30th 2 A. Yes; those three days were so
near.
Q. They were so near, and— A. Well, I
was up there on the 30th, and Adry came
up to the block on the 1st, and I was out
in the yard throwing in wood–
Q. Well, never mind about that.
Mr. Nye. He is trying to fix the reason
he remembers. -
Mr. Erwin. I want him to understand
he can’t work in that conversation.
The Witness—You Wanted to know how I
fixed the day and I am trying to fix it.
Q. Well, you have got no way of fixing
it then except you just arbitrarily swear
to it? A. I have a way of fixing it, I was
in two or three more places that day after
I called there and seen about working; I
was at Rands— -
Q. Now, when you read the testimony,
you had never thought about that until you
read the testimony? A. Well, yes, I did
think about it right after; I was there on
the 3rd, and the next morning I heard of
the homicide, than it all came to my mind;
I read it in the paper.
Q. You never said anything about this
until you read the testimony in the paper?
A. Why, no, I had no reason until I heard
of the homicide.
Q. When you read that in the paper who
did you go and hunt up? A. I didn't hunt
up anybody; I told people in the block
where I live.
Q. What day were you there before the
30th 2 A. I can’t state just now, but I can
when I hunt up my receipts. I remember
the day I went in and receipted it.
R. R. Odell
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Nye.
Q. Mr. Odell, you are a practicing attor-
ney and counsellor at law of this city?
A. I am, sir.
Q. You are the attorney for Claus A.
Blixt? A. I ann.
Q. Was Miss Wachtler, the witness who
has been on the stand, a stenographer of
yours? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long had she been in your em-
ploy? A. She was a student in Mr. Bow-
er's school, and Mr. McMahon and I went
together some time the latter part of 1889,
and we took her from Mr. Bower's school;
she was with us until Mr. McMahon and I
dissolved, which was in December, 1892, and





394
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
then she went about a year with Snow,
Church & Co. She would often come to
see me, and her work over there was very
tedious and told on her considerably, and I
took her back under the arrangement that
I should pay her so much a week and fur-
nish her with a typewriter, and she could
take work in from the block. That was
some time in 1893. She was in my employ
until Tuesday, the 12th day of February,
1895, at which time I discharged her.
Q. After your employment as counsel for
Mr. Blixt did you frequently visit him in
the jail here? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. Did you on any occasion take his
statements in writing or shorthand, or
caused them to be taken 2 A. I did. It
was before or during the holiday week; on
two days.
Q. Well, now, on the first day, which has
been described as the day before Christ-
mas, was Miss Wachtler with you? A.
She was. She went to the cell for the pur-
pose of writing down just what Mr. Blixt
would say.
Did she take down what Mr. Blixt
said 2 A. She did.
Q. How long were you there, do you re-
member, about? A. Well, the first time I
think we were there about two hours; it
may be a little more or less, but it was in
the neighborhood of two hours.
Q. You heard Miss Wachtler's testimony
on the stand? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will read here the question and
answer. (Here reads Miss Wachtler's tes-
timony that Blixt said: “Adry and I put
up the job to kill Miss Ging for her money;
we agreed that if we got caught we would
put it on to Harry, because he always was
with Miss Ging,” etc.) I will ask you if
any such statement or declaration was
made by Claus A. Blixt? A. Nothing of
the kind whatever. Not at that time or
any other time, when she was present or
not-
Mr. Erwin–I ask that the words “or
mot” be stricken out.
The Court—What does he mean by it?
When you were present?
A. Not at any time when I was ever
present, or when Miss Wachtler and I
were present, did he use any such language
as that, or mentioned Adry's name.
Mr. Erwin–I move that the testimony
that he never used such language when
he was present and Miss Wachtler was
not be stricken out, because that is in ad-
dition to the impeachment, and a matter
which could not be proven in this case.
The Court–Overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Did he in that conversation or any
conversations at which she was present
mention the name of Adry? A. No, sir.
Q. Did he say, “Adry said to me to be
sure and take the iron with you and go
to the same place as we picked out and if
you have any trouble Frank will be there
to help you?” A. No, sir; he never said
anything of the kind.
Q. After the remarks which I have indi-
cated she testified Blixt said, “Oh, I for-
got, but you told me to tell the truth,” and
any such thing as that? A. Nothing what-
ever, about his telling the truth, nothing of
- that kind.
Q. She says she made a complete trans-
cript of the statement made by him, which
was exhibited here in court? A. She did,
but there was clerical errors in it, as there
is in all of her work.
Q. You may state, Mr. Odell, whether
she left your service or not after—º A. Yes,
sir, the 12th of February. She came into
the office on the morning of Tuesday, the
12th of February–
Mr. Erwin-Wait a moment. Your honer,
I ask that resort be had to the impeaching
question under the rule.
The Witness—I was conforming myself to
that, Mr. Erwin.
The Court–She testified very largely
about the difficulty she had with Mr. Odell.
Mr. Erwin–If your honor please, the
questions were put in impeachment form.
The Court—I know, but she testified quite
extensively, about her difficulty with Mr.
Odell; I thought it ought to be objected to
at the time, but it was not, and went in.
She went so fast I don't remember much
about it. However, I don't think it is nec-
essary to go into the particulars of this
controversy at all. Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–We have no questions, Mr.
Odell.
A recess was here taken until 2 p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION, FEB. 28.
James S. Robinson
Sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is yºur name. A. My name
is James H. Robinson. I am a police of
ficer in this city.
Q. Do you know up to what time that
blood spot on the dirt road remained in
the place where Miss Ging was murdered?
A. Up to the fourth day of the month, un-
til about 2 o'clock. Sergeant Linehan then
said he thought it best to cover it up, and
come out and got a couple of sticks and
tried to clean it up and cover it up, and
we borowed a shovel, and Sergt. Linehan
scraped it up and threw it into a ditch.
Q. Where is that ditch? A. Right hand
side, going out.
P. W. Linehan
Sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your occupation? A. I
a police officer of this city.
Q. Were you with the other officer at
the time the blood was thrown in the Ex-
celsior road? A. I saw there was wagons
coming along, and they were driving right
through this blood; and the blood kept
oozing up, and the wheels went through it,
and I thought it looked bad, and I thought
I would shovel it away, and finally I did
and threw it into the swamp.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Did you throw it on the ice? A. No,
sir, I did not; I threw it on the grass; prob-
ably a little bit went on the ice. I walked
to the bank with a shovel full of this
bloody dirt, and attempted to throw it on
the grass, into the ditch and into the grass.
The grass was wilted down. I did not look
after it left the shovel where it fell.
J. H. Russell
Sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
I am the son of Dr. William Russell. I
accompanied my father on the night of
Dec. 3 when summoned to the scene of
Catherine Ging's murder we used an open
buggy.
a nº-






















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 395
Q. To what point did you drive in refer-
ence to the body of Miss Ging when you
found it in the road? A. I stopped just
this side a little bit on the road. When I
started, when we went down, I drove up
about 50 feet beyond the body and turned
around and came back. I turned from
right to left and came back into the road-
way.
Q. At about what point in reference to
the body or the place where the body of
Miss Ging lay, did you drive back into the
beaten track of the road 2 A. I came on
the road near where the body lay. There
were quite a number standing right around
the body as far as I could see; I did not
notice particularly about that.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. When you turned around the patrol
wagon had gone away, had it? A. Yes,
sir. I turned around as soon as I could
conveniently; but the horse that I had
don’t stand very well, and starts up quick-
ly, and I let her go 40 or 50 feet before we
put the robe in and turned around.
Q. The next day the officer testified
there was a track between the body and
near the body where it turned around,
went further out—now, can you tell when
was your attention called first to the dis-
tance you went? You must recollect you
stopped this side of the body and this side
of the patrol wagon, 15 feet, and you got
in, you and your father, out where that
horse stopped. And you had to go the
distance of 50 feet where the patrol wagon
stood and from where the patrol wagon
stood to where the body was 2 A. No, sir,
the patrol wagon stood at the head of the
body, drove up further than the body lay,
and I drove very near where the body
was.
Q. You turned around nearly where the
patrol wagon was? The testimony here all
shows that the patrol wagon turned around
this side of the body? A. No, sir, I don’t
think they turned around. They did not
turn around before the body was put in.
Mr. Hall–Turned short; the wheels turn-
ed under. -
Mr. Erwin–You and your father came
back to where your buggy was and got
in, and drove about 40 or 50 feet and turn-
ed around? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–That is just about the way the
testimony shows it.
Edward Eidam
Sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Where were you living or working on
the 3d day of December last? A. I should
judge about 40 rods in the other end of that
woods for D. Seoul. He is a dairyman liv-
ing on the Excelsior road.
Q. About how far beyond the house of
Mr. Erhardt on the Excelsior road? A. I
should judge just about a mile from Er-
hardt.
Q. Quite some distance from Erhardt's
on the Excelsior road is there a piece of
woods, the first piece of woods after you
pass the Erhardt house? A. Yes, there is.
Q. In reference to the farm of Mr. Seoul,
where is that piece of woods?
Mr. Erwin–I do not see what this can be
for. I will enter an objection as immaterial
and irrelevant. It is preliminary, I sup-
pose.
Mr. Hall–We will show it is rebuttal.
Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Hall–How far is that wood from the
farm of Mr. Seoul? A. Forty rods from
the other side. And the woods are about 10
rods, I should think; probably 15; I could
not say, I was out in the field on the night
of Dec. 3, shortly after 8. While I was in
the field I heard a shot. It seemed as if
it was right off to my left, down towards
the wood. Towards the wood which I have
described.
Q. And the time when you heard the
shot was shortly after 8 o’clock? A. Yes,
sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. How many shots did you hear? A.
One. I was in the field about 40 minutes.
Q. You went in the field before you heard
the shot? A. I had just went out, had not
left the house more than 15 minutes. There
was a party that had stole something and
I went out to see if I could catch him.
Q. How far from the road 2 A. I should
judge about 50 rods; something like that.
Q. Did you hear any wagon? A. There
was a rig went by just after I went out;
I did not cross the road over five rods,
there was a rig went down. They were
talking.
Q. There was
talking? A. Yes.
Q. Which way
To Minneapolis.
Q. Was it the voice of men or women?
A. It sounded a good deal as men, as near
as I could tell; did not pay attention to it.
Q. Did you notice any other rig coming
back that night toward Minneapolis while
you were out? A. No, sir.
Did you shoot any at that time; did
you shoot yourself; I mean did you have
a gun yourself and shoot it? A. No, sir, I
did not.
Q. Did you hear any other shot than that
one shot? A. No, sir, that is all the shot
In heard.
Q. Well, if there had been another shot
there about that time, a short time before
a few minutes, or a few minutes after-
wards, you would have heard it, wouldn’t
you? A. Yes, sir, I would.
Q. Then at night, such a night as that,
it would be a dark and lonely place down
in there? A. Yes, sir, that is, if the night
was dark.
Q. Can you swear positively, that is,
are you satisfied yourself you can swear
to whatever you are satisfied with? Are
you satisfied then that this shot came out
of the woods? A. As near as I can state,
yes, sir.
Q. Are you satisfied it came from there
or may have come from some place else?
A. It might have come from somewhere
else. As near as I can tell it came from
off the Woods.
Q. Your judgment inclines you to think
that it came from the woods? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Under the circumstances it might
have come from somewhere else; is that
the way you feel? A. Yes, sir, that is the
way I feel.
Jeanette W. Hale
Sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your name? A. My name
is Jeanette W. Hale. I live at 1224 Chest-
nut avenue in this city.
a rig went down, and
was the rig going? A.






396
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. On the night of December 3, in the
evening of December 3, for what place did
you and your daughter start? A. We
went to the theater.
Q. How far from your home is the home
of Mr. Bartleson at the corner of Chestnut
and Twelfth 2 A. We are in the same
block. -
Q. To go to the theater, what line of
cars would you take? A: University.
Q. And at what point would you take
the car, or start to take the car that night?
A. Right at the corner of Hawthorn and
Twelfth.
Q. And to go to that place you walked
down Chestnut to the corner where Bart-
leson's house is, and then turned on
Twelfth to go to Hawthorne? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you, as vou progressed toward
the car line that night going to the the-
ater with your daughter, pass any one?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Whereabouts? A. About three houses
from the corner.
Q. From which corner?
nut avenue.
Q. From the corner of Chestnut
Twelfth 2 A. Yes.
Q: What would be in the block between
Linden and Chestnut streets, about what
distance—midway? A. Not quite midway.
Q. In the block between Chestnut and
Linden, whom did you pass at that point?
A. My daughter was with me; she said it
was Mr. Hayward.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to and ask to have
it stricken out.
The Court—Stricken out.
Mr. Hall–Did you see a figure pass you
at that point? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what speed was the figure going?
Was the figure going slowly or rapidly?
A. It was walking very fast.
Q. Did you see Mr. Hayward that even-
ing a short time after the time that the
figure passed ? A. Yes.
Q. Within how many minutes? A. Well,
it may be five or more.
Q. A very few minutes after that? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. From what direction did Mr.
ward come when you saw him 2
came from Twelfth street.
Q. From the direction of Bartleson's
house? A. Yes.
Q. After passing the figure on Twelfth
street, you and your daughter journeyed
on about a block further, to the corner of
Hawthorn and Twelfth ; did you remain
there until the car came up 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you standing at that point when
you were rejoined by Mr. Hayward? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Who was with Mr. Hayward at the
time? A. Miss Mabel Bartleson.
Q: What theater did you attend? A The
Grand Opera.
Q. Did you and your daughter and Mr.
Hayward and Miss Bartleson go down on
the same car? A. Yes.
Q. Did you go into the theater at about
the same time? A. I think he passed us;
he went ahead.
Q. Do you know whether you got your
seats in the theater before or after Mr.
Hayward and Miss Bartleson? A. Before.
Q. You were there before? A. Yes.
Q. Was there any occasion for your be-
A. On Chest-
and
Hay-
A. He
ing able to get in ahead of him? A. We
had our seats.
Q. He was obliged to stop and get his?
A. Yes, sir. -
Q. Did you have seats in the theater at
a point near where Mr. Hayward and Miss
Bartleson sat? A. Yes.
Q. How near? A. They sat in front of
us.
Q. How soon after yourself and daughter
took your seats did Mr. Hayward and Miss
Bartleson come in 2 A. I could not say;
Fº five minutes; it may have been
ess.
Q. At the time that Miss Bartleson and
Mr. Hayward came into the theater had
the curtain risen on the play? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. About how long? A. I could not say.
Q. Was the curtain up when you and
your daughter got in 2 A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the act had progressed some dis-
tance before you got there? A. Seem-
ingly.
Q. And it was some five minutes or pos-
sibly that after you took your seats that
Hayward and Miss Bartleson came in? A.
Very near. -
Q. Where is your daughter now? A.
She is in the East. She is not within this
State.
Q. Has not been here for how long? A.
It is over two months.
Q. To the best of your belief, from all
the facts accompanying the passing of the
gentleman on the street, and his rejoining
you within a block a few minutes after,
who was the person who passed you going
at the rapid gait that you have described 2
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial, ir-
relevant and not connected, not a proper
matter of opinion, and as leading.
The Court—It is leading.
Mr. Hall–Are you able to state?
Mr. Erwin–Of your own knowledge?
Mr. Hall–Who was the person
passed you?
The Court—Of your own knowledge.
The Witness—Why, it was, I suppose it
was, may be, of course, I do not—I had
every reason to think it was him. That is
all I can say.
Mr. Erwin–I ask that that be stricken
out.
The Court—It will be stricken out.
Mr. Hall–On which side did the figure
pass you—on the inside or outside, on
which side did the man pass? A. On the
left hand side.
Q. That is on the outside? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that nearest to your daughter or
yourself? A. Nearest to her.
Q. She was on the outside, and you were
on the inside? A. Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Where is your house on Chestnut
street—do you live on Chestnut street? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Bartleson's is on the corner?
sir.
Q. Do you live beyond the corner on
Chestnutº A. Yes.
Q. How far beyond 2 A. If there was a
street there I should be in the second block
from there, but as there is not any street
it is a long block.
Mr. Hall—It is a double block?
Mr. Erwin–First avenue is cut off there.
that
A. Yes,






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
397
you live on Chestnut, three doors south, or
further from the city than Bartleson's. A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How far had you got down across
Chestnut on Twelfth 2 A. Not quite half
a block.
Q. Now, you thought you were
didn't you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were hurrying? A. Yes.
Q. Was it dark? A. Not very.
Q. How wide is the sidewalk there? A.
Six feet; six or eight.
Q. Isn't it true that when walking in
the night, you are very careful to watch
your way and pick your way, especially if
you are traveling fast, a lady of your age?
A. It may be.
Q. All that you noticed was that a man
went past? A. Certainly.
He was within a third of a block
and crossed the street, Chestnut street, of
Bartleson's house? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You came down the street to what
street where the car runs on ; the car
comes down Hawthorn avenue from Lin-
den, passes the park on the east side there,
turns down Twelfth street to Hennepin
avenue, doesn’t it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you waited at the corner of Haw-
thorn Park there for the car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you tell about how often the car
passed there at that time of night? A. I.
think it is about every seven minutes.
Q. You waited some little time for the
car? A. Yes, sir. It seemed five minutes
or S.O.
Q. While you were waiting there, were
you joined by Miss Mabel Bartleson and
Harry Hayward? A. I think we all got
on the car about the same time.
Q. They got on the car at the same
time? A. Yes, if I remember right.
Q. Then you rode down together to what
stree’? A. Sixth street. -
Q. Then you got off and did not walk
together to the theater, but arrived there
about the same time? A. No; he went
late,
ahead of me; they walked faster than I-
did.
Q. They walked faster than you did? A.
Yes.
Q. Is your daughter a married lady? A.
No, sir.
Q. Was her trip East rather improvised
so she would not be a witness in this case?
Objected to.
The Court—Answer the question.
A. She had been intending to go for a
long time.
Mr. Erwin–You did not desire to have her
a witness on the stand?
No response.
Q. Let me ask you how long you have
known of Harry Hayward? A. Well he
was a schoolmate of my daughter.
Q. I will ask you frankly if you have
not entertained a prejudice against him for
some time; I mean before this incident?
A.. I had no reason to.
Q. You say you had no reason to. Have
you not had, perhaps, an unaccountable
prejudice against Mr. Hayward for some
time? A. I had no reason to have it; I
have not known the man at all. He has
not been brought to my notice at all.
Q. When you say that this man was walk-
ing rapidly, you mean in comparison to
your walk, do you not, at that time? A.
Yes, sir; certainly.
Q. And what your sensation would be,
and your carefulness in walking on the
sidewalk at that time of night? A. Well,
we were all late that night.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. You knew Harry Hayward when you
saw him? A. I knew him by sight.
Q. Your daughter was acquainted with
him and knew him by sight? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial,
irrelevant, and ask to have the answer
stricken out.
Objection overruled. Exception.
Mr. Hall–Did the man make any saluta-
tion to yourself or daughter as he passed?
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant.
Overruled. Exception.
Q. Was it light enough for you to recog-
nize a gentleman coming in front of you
had he been going at an ordinary speed or
had spoken? A. Certainly.
Q. Had the rapidity with which the
figure passed you anything to do with your
ability to recognize who it was 2 A. No,
sir, because I was not thinking about it.
Q. I don’t know as you were interro-
gated about how rapidly he was going;
was it a very fast walk or an ordinarily
swift walk?
Objected to. Overruled. Exception.
A. He was walking very fast, being a
large person.
Q. It was the figure of a large man or
a small one? A. Large.
Mr. Erwin–Do you wear glasses. A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you have your glasses on that
night? A. No, sir; I don’t wear them when
I Walk.
J. A. Olson
Sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Your name is John A. Olson? A. Yes,
sir. I was in the office of Mr. Odell on the
9th day of February.
Q. Did you have a talk that day with
Miss Wachtler? A. Yes, sir.
Do you remember the conversation
that you had at that time with Miss
Wachtler? A. I think so.
Q. I will ask you if at that time she used
this language, or this in substance, speak-
ing to you, she said: “I came very near
being run over and killed by a runaway
horse going to lunch; I was going up Nic-
ollet avenue, and I heard some one hol-
Iering, and all at once a man fell down
right by the side of me, and I took a jump
to one side, right at the entrance of a
store, and the horse skipped right by me,
only a few inches from me, and run over
the man’s legs, but I don’t think it hurt
him very much; it was a very close call,
and I never got such a scare in my life,
and then that damned Odell treated me
that way, it makes me awfully excited.”
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial and not a mat-
ter for impeachment, as witness cannot be
impeached upon collateral matter.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Hall–Did you at that time have a
conversation in which Miss Wachtler said.
that she was going to have Mr. Odell dis-
barred for not giving her some money that
she claimed he had collected?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant and
immaterial, and not a subject of impeach-
ment.


OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT:
Objection sustained.
Q. I will ask you if on the following
Monday, which was the 11th, about 1:30 in
the afternoon, did you see Miss Wachtler
in Mr. Odell's office? A: I did.
Q. Was the subject of her conversation
in regard to her dealings with Mr. Odell
renewed 2 A. No, not about dealings.
Q. Did she at that time state to you,
speaking of Mr. Odell: “Oh, my, he was
awfully mad, and he told me this morn-
ing to leave the office, and he told my
sister Saturday never to come in his office
again?”
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial, and not a prop-
er matter for impeachment, and as having
been testified to by the witness.
Mr. Hall–Her answer is, ‘‘No, she never
told me.” -
The Court–Objection sustained.
Mr. Hall–Did you have a conversation
with Miss Wachtler on Thursday follow-
ing? A. I did.
Q. At about 2 o’clock in the afternoon?
A. I did.
Q. At that time did Miss Wachtler use
this language to you in substance: “Say,
Mr. Olson, I want to ask you a question,
but don’t you tell Odell about it. If a per-
son is called on the stand to testify, do
they have to tell all they know and an-
swer every question?”
Objected to.
Mr. Hall–Continuing–Did she not further
say; did you not say at that time: “You
will have to tell the truth about whatever
they ask you; if you do otherwise you will
perjure yourself. Sometimes the attorneys
object to some questions, and if the court
sustains the objection, then you will not
have to answer.” Did you make such a
reply?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial, and not a proper
matter of impeachment.
Objection sustained.
Mr. Hall—At that time did she say: “I
am afraid if I am called on the stand, I
would get so rattled I wouldn’t know what
to say.” Did she at that time use such
language? A. Yes, sir.
Did she say that to you? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you at that time ask her, “Why,
do you think you will be called to testify
in the murder case?” A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't Miss Wachtler, to that ques-
tion of yours, reply yes, that she expected
to be called in the murder case? Did she
say that? A. She did.
Q. Did she say or not say that they had
been speaking to her about it, or words to
that effect? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you then ask her who had been
speaking to her about it? A. I did.
Q. And did she or did she not to that
reply, “I won’t tell you?” A. Yes, sir.
Q. And further replying, did or did not
she say to you, “I am afraid of you be-
cause I know you are a detective?” A.
She did not use exactly those words.
Q. Or in that substance? A. Yes.
Q. What were the words she did use?
Objected to as no foundation laid and
not a proper matter of impeachment.
Mr. Hall–If you don’t want it, all right.
Q. Did or did you not then say to her
*It won't be hard for you to testify, as
you have a statement to go by.”
Objected to as immaterial, and not a
proper matter for inpeachment.
Objection overruled. Exception.
A.. I did.
Mr. Erwin–This is his own statement. It
was not answered.
The Court—It is stricken out, then.
Mr. Hall–She made an answer; the an-
swer was, “I did not say anything about it;
no, sir.”
Mr. Erwin–That don’t say that he did
not say so.
Mr. Hall–Did she make any reply to that
question or observation by you?
Objected to.
Sustained.
Q. Did she say anything?
Objected to. Sustained.
Q. As you were going out of the room,
after the conversation, did or did not Miss
Wachtler say to you these words, or in
substance, speaking to you, “I know you
can make some money; go and tell Erwin
that you know something about Blixt and
he will probably give you some money.”
Did or did not she say that to you, or that
in substance? A. She did say that in sub-
stance.
Objected to as no foundaion laid, and
object to an answer in substance.
Objection withdrawn.
Q. Did she or not say this? A. She did.
Q. Did you or not, to that remark by
her, reply, “Yes, but I don't know any-
thing about the case, and I would not go
and tell him a lie about it?”
Objected to. Sustained.
Q. Further continuing the conversation,
did or did not Miss Wachtler then and
there say to you and ask you, “What do
they do with persons who perjure them-
selves?” A. That was in the conversation;
I think that was earlier in the afternoon.
Q. On the same day 2 A. Yes.
Q. At that time and place, did or did she
not use the language that I have just
quoted, ask you the question? A. She did.
Q. And to that did you not reply, “They
send them to the state's prison?” A.. I
said they are likely to send them to state's
prison.
Q. Did or did she not at that time state
to you that you could make money by
going to the defense; that you could make
a thousand dollars? A. That is the same
thing that she was talking about before.
She only stated that once in her conversa-
tion.
Q. Was any sum of money mentioned? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. The same I mentioned in the ques-
tion? A. Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith. -
Q. What is your occupation? A. I used
to be in the real estate business here when
there was anything to do. I have not done
much of anything for some time now. I
have done some detective business.
. Have you had any business relations
with Odell, Mr. Blixt's attorney? A. Some.
I have not done any detective business.
Q. Where has been your office as a de-
tective in the city? A. I worked for Good-
ing & Co. -
Q. What business relations had you with
Mr. Odell in February, 1895? A. He wanted
me to keep office for him while he was
away.








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 399
Q. So you stayed there in the office? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. When did you have your first talk
with Miss Wachtler? A. I don't remem-
ber, which talk do you mean?
Q. I mean the talk in relation to this
murder; with regard to this murder case;
when did you have your first talk with
Miss Wachtler? A. I don't remember.
Q. When was it that she told you, “I
will tell you how you can make some
money; go to Erwin and tell him that you
know something about Blixt?” A. It was
on Tuesday, Feb. 12.
Q. Did you make a memorandum of it?
A. I did afterwards.
Q. When did you make your memoran-
dum of it—after Miss Wachtler testified ?
A. No, sir; I made a memorandum of it, I
believe, on Saturday evening, the 15th.
Q. How did you happen to make a mem-
orandum of it? A. I thought I better write
it down.
Q: What for? A. To remember.
D. Do you write down everything that
people tell you? A. No, sir.
. How did you happen to write that
down? A. I understood I was going to be
called to testify.
Q. That was before Miss Wachtler testi-
fied? A. Yes, sir, I believe it was.
Q. So you wrote it down before Miss
Wachtler testified, as you understood that
you were to be called to testify? A. I un-
derstood that I was to be called to testify.
Q. Who told you so? A. Mr. Odell, I be-
lieve.
Q. Did Mr. Erwin ever hear your feeble
voice on this question?
Objected to as irrelevant and too remote.
Q. When she said to you, “I will tell you
how you can make some money; go to Er-
win and tell him you know Blixt,” it was
at that time that she asked you what they
did with persons who perjured themselves,
wasn’t it? A. No, that was before, earlier
in the afternoon.
The Court–He said it was the same day.
Mr. Smith–You understood she was talk-
ing about Blixt? A. She said, the words
she said, “Go and tell Erwin something
about Blixt that will help Harry out, and
he will give you $1,000.”
Q. Immediately after that she inquired
what they did with persons who perjured
themselves? A. No, sir; she did that be-
fore, earlier in the afternoon.
Q. You understood she was talking about
Blixt? A. She was talking about Blixt a
little later in the afternoon. She only
mentioned Blixt's name twice that after-
noon.
Q. Did she speak about his perjuring
himself? A. No, sir.
Q. He had testified then? A. Yes.
Q. What else did you write down as a
memorandum, as a basis for your testi-
mony before Miss Wachtler had testified,
and at the suggestion of Mr. Odell that
you were to be called as a witness; did
you write down all Miss Wachtler said?
A. No, sir, I did not. Some other matters
that did not pertain to this case at all.
Q. You wrote down some other matters?
A. No, not wrote them down.
Q. When did you tell Odell what Miss
Wachtler had said? A. Thursday evening,
the 14th.
Q. Thursday evening, the 14th of Febru-
ary 2 A. Yes.
Q. Is that down on your memorandum”
A. No, sir.
Q. When did she tell you that you could
make $1,000? A. On Tuesday, the 12th.
Q. Before or after she told you or asked
you what they did with a person who per-
jured himself? A. That was before, she
asked me about that.
Q. Seriously, do you mean to say that
Miss Wachtler told you you could make
$1,000 in this case? A. She did not use the
word “make.”
Q. What word did she use? A. She said:
“They might give you $1,000.”
Q: Whom did “they” refer to in that
remark, Smith or Erwin? A. She did not
say “they;” she said “he.”
Q. Referring to whom? A. Mr. Erwin.
Q. Did you go to Mr. Erwin to see if
you could get a thousand? A. I did not,
no sir.
Q: Why didn't you go? A. I did not
want to.
Q. What have you been doing since that
time; what has been your occupation since
that time? A. I have been in Odell’s office
most of the time, taking care of his office.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. You made no note or memorandum
of these conversations until after the time
that you heard the impeaching question
put to Blixt in the course of his cross-ex-
amination here; was it after that time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When was it understood that a ques-
tion would be asked of Miss Wachtler in-
peaching the testimony of Blixt?
Mr. Smith—No matter about his under-
standing of it.
Court here adjourned until March 1, at
10 a. m.
MORNING SESSION, MARCH 1.
Louis Behm
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Where do you work? I am foreman
for Mr. Wilson, who has been a witness in
this case.
Q. Do you know a man by the name of
James C. Ward, who was called as a wit-
ness here yesterday? A. I know him when
I see him, but I am not acquainted with
him.
Q. Do you recall an occasion, I think he
puts it some two weeks ago, when he came
to Mr. Wilson's place of business to sell a
log chain? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you the man who was present
with Mr. Wilson, and present at the inter-
view that took place between Wilson and
Mr. Ward at that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you if you were present
when Mr. Ward first came up to Mr. Wil-
son at that place? A. Yes, I was right
there, and I was there when Mr. Wilson
left.
Q. As the conversation ceased, did Mr.
Wilson leave first or Ward? A. Mr. Wik-
son left first. He got in the rig and drove
off and left Ward and myself there.
Q. Was there any conversation between
Ward and Wilson that was not within your
hearing and in your presence? A. I was
right there, and could hear every word that
was said.
Q. I will ask you if at that time, if at
any time in that conversation, Mr. Wilson
said to Mr. Ward, “They cannot do any-
thing with Harry; it was not Harry that I






OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
saw that night on the boulevard?” A. Mr.
Hayward was not mentioned at all.
Q: Was there anything said about Hay-
ward or about this trial or about Mr. Wil-
son's testimony? A. There was nothing
mentioned at all.
Q. What was he talking about? A. Mr.
Ward, he brought in a chain, and wanted
to sell that to Mr. Wilson.
Q. Was there any other subject or con-
versation talked over or mentioned between
Ward and Wilson at the time he was
there? A. No, sir, they were talking about
the chain. He wanted to sell his chain.
Q. Nothing but his chain? A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. What day was this conversation? A.
The 8th of this month, half past 5 in the
evening.
Q. Do you recollect on that day before
you hitched up the horse or put the har-
ness on the horse that you were told to go
and change the thills? A. I had the horse
hitched up.
Q. Do you recollect before you hitched
up any horse you changed the thills; you
know what thills are? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you change the thills that after-
noon? A. Probably I did, I can’t remem-
ber.
Q. After you changed the thills didn't
you go and put the harness on the horse?
A. Well, that I don’t remember.
Q. What do you think about it? A.
Sometimes I change the thills at noon time,
and sometimes the thills when I have the
horse ready there.
Q. If you changed the thills, did you
change them in the office? A. I changed
them right there.
Q. Do you mean to say that your office
is right in the barn? A. The office is in
the barn, there is only a door between
them.
Q. You had to go out of the office to
change the thills; could you change them
by standing in the door of the office and
putting the thills in outside of the door?
A. No, sir.
Q. Then you had to go outside of the
office to change the thills? A. Yes, cer-
tainly I had to go out.
Q. Then you would not hear what was
said? A. I did not go out of the office
when Ward was there.
Q. How did you know what was said
there if you went out to change the thills?
A. He did not tell the truth.
Q. He testified that you were not present
at the time of this conversation, that you
had gone to change these thills. A. I was
right there when he come and when he
left.
Q. Did Wilson talk to
about it? A. No, sir.
Q: What brought it back to your mind?
A. Because the day book says that we
sold a horse right that day.
Q. Did you look it up after you were
subpoenaed? A. No, I did not.
Q: What I want to get at is this: Had
you any recollection, or did it ever occur
to your mind about whether there was any
conversation between Wilson and Ward
until yesterday, when your attention was
called to it by your employer, Wilson? A.
No, sir, I never thought of it.
And yesterday you got out the book
and looked the whole question up and made
you yesterday
remember that time;
up your mind about how it was 2 A. I.
there was a man
there from North Branch, and sold him a
horse that day; and that day Mr. Ward
was there, that evening.
Q. Did you hear any talk about furniture
business that day? A. No, sir.
Q. Mr. Ward says he was in the furni-
ture business and talking with Mr. Wilson
there about half an hour about furniture
and about the New England furniture
store. He says you were not in there at
that time, that you hau gone out to change
the thills on the rig? A. I was right there
when he come and when he left.
Q. He left the chain there? A. Yes, sir.
And came there several times? A.
Came there once afterwards.
Q. You did not see him there any other
time? A. I seen him there once.
Q. Were you present at the time? A. I
was right there, sitting in the chair.
Q. Might there have been another con-
versation? A. The second time he came
there he wanted to know if we had sold
the chain; I told him no; that is all the
conversation we had about the chain. He
was not there very long, from 10 to 15 min-
utes, probably not that long.
Q. Mr. Ward says that he did not talk
until you went out? A. I did not go out.
I stayed right there. I am telling the
truth.
Q. I know you are trying to. A. Not
trying to; I am doing it.
Q. I know it. Nobody doubts that. Mr.
Wilson was present yesterday when you
looked at the books? A. He was there
morning and noon time.
Q. Tell the truth about that; was he
present when you looked at the books? A.
Mr. Wilson got the book.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. You remember that the day he sold
the horse to Frank Smith was the 8th 2 A.
Yes, sir.
Q. That was the day that Ward was in
there? A. Yes, sir, at half past 5.
Q. Now, have you any distinct recollec-
tion of this change of thills that evening?
A. I did not change any thills while Mr.
Ward was there.
Q. If you had changed any thills it was
earlier in the evening? A. It was before;
I cannot change thills and hold a stallion
there. The horse was hitched up when
Ward came there. -
Ernest G. Gemach
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Did you see George Grindall, the man
who was a witness here, on the night of
Dec. 3? A. Yes, sir, in front of Hamil-
ton's, I think, on Central avenue, crossing
Prince Street. - -
Q. Was Grindall at that time coming
down Central avenue or going up Central
avenue from the river? A. Going towards
the river.
Q. At what time of evening was that?
A. Between 7 and 8.
Q. After you saw Grindall there, where
did he go or what did he do? A. My
brother chased him under the stone arch
bridge.
Q. Had you and your brother had any
trouble with Grindall that day? A. Yes,
sir, at 4 o’clock.
Q. was this the next time that you had
seen him after the row? A. Yes, sir.
















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
401
Q. When you saw him had he come from
the direction of his home? A. es
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. That night that your brother drove
Grindall under the bridge, how many were
together? A. I don’t remember.
Q. Was it three of you? A. A little
more than three of us.
Q. Didn’t this running under the bridge
and this trouble take place last Septem-
ber, the latter part of last September? A.
No, sir.
Q. Now, where were you on Tuesday
after this thing occurred, according to your
calculation, Tuesday? A. I was looking
after George Grindall.
Q. Where did you go to look for him? A.
On Central avenue. -
Q. Did you inquire of anybody that day
before you saw him where he was 2 A. I
inquired of Mr. Dillinger once.
Q: What did you want to see Mr. Grindall
for? A. I wanted to lick him. I watched
for him on Central avenue, and I did not
see him that day.
Q. Where were you the next day, Wed-
nesday, the 5th 2 A. I don’t remember.
Q. Where were you on Thursday, the
6th? A. I never kept close track of it at
all; I was thinking too much of him for
that.
Q. Where were you on the 7th; the 3d
was Monday, the 4th Tuesday, the 5th Wed-
nesday, the 6th Thursday and the 7th Fri-
day.
Mr. Hall–I submit that the witness' rec-
ollection as to days has been pretty thor-
oughly exhausted.
The Witness–Yes, my lungs are getting
tired.
Q. Do you recollect the time when Mr.
Grindall, Elijah S. Grindall, removed the
rubbish from the new market after it was
burned? A. Yes, I recollect that.
Q. Did he hire Jesse Gamach to drive the
team; did he hire your brother, Jesse Ga-
mach, to drive the team? A. Yes, sir, but
that was not the time.
Q. Now, did you hear at that time that
George Grindall threw rocks at Jesse and
called him names? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did your brother come and see you,
come to you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go over to the market and
have some difficulty with George A. Grin-
dall? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you bring a policeman down there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Wasn't it that same evening? A. No,
sir.
Q. The latter part of September, did you
and your brother meet Grindall and have
the trouble which you have stated was Dec.
3? A. Yes, Dec. 3 was the night, the night
that we chased him.
Q. It was not the latter part of Septem-
ber? A. No, sir.
Q. How did the account of Miss Ging's
murder fix this trouble which you had with
Grindall? A. It reminded me of the time
that I had with Grindall that same night.
Q. How was it that the reading of the ac-
count of Miss Ging's murder brought up or
fixed in your mind the trouble that you
had with Grindall, if Grindall was not
mentioned or thought about by the public
in regard to this murder until very lately,
in fact, it was four or five days before the
attorneys knew anything about Grindall's
statement; how could it bring up and fix
in your mind anything about your trouble
with Grindall'? A. When I read the pa_
pers the next morning it reminded me of it.
Q. Just by reading the paper the next
morning you were reminded of it? A. I
kept thinking of it, and I think of it if I
am in the court house; and God help the
man if I ever get well!
Q. Did you borrow a pony of George's
father last summer ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you return it? A. Yes, sir.
The Court—What has that to do with the
case?
Mr. Erwin–I want to call that to his at-
tention.
The Court—I won't permit you to exam-
ine that witness outside of the issues in
this case.
Mr. Erwin–Now, I will ask the question,
have you had trouble with the father of
George Grindall as well as with Grindall?
Objected to as irrelevant, immaterial.
Sustained.
Exception.
Mr. Hall—The trouble with George Grin-
dall that you had in your chasing him,
and the fact of the Ging murder are associ-
ated together in your mind as facts that
occurred at the same time; is that your
recollection? A. Yes, sir.
F. A. Dunsmoor-
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are a physician and surgeon
practicing in this city? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you occupy any official position in
this city as a physician and surgeon? A.
I am in charge of the operative and clinical
surgery in the State University, and I have
the position of surgeon to the hospitals,
two dispensaries and seven railroads.
(The witness here left the court room to
examine the skulls.)
William Jaeche
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Sinceyou were on the stand have you
made any further investigations as to the
weight of lead contained in the various
kinds of cartridges made by the various
manufacturing concerns which would fit a
38-Colt's revolver? I will ask you what dif-
ferent companies make cartridges that will
fit a 38-Colt revolver? A. The Bridgeport,
A. M. C. Metallic Cartridge Company and
the Winchester Repeating Arms Company.
Q. They also make cartridges that fit the
Colt's revolver? A. Yes; there is another
one, the United States Cartridge Company,
at Lowell.
Q. They also make cartridges that will
fit the 38-Colt’s revolver? A. Yes, sir;
there is another one, the American Metallic,
of New York; it is not running now.
Q. They have manufactured goods, have
they, of 38 caliber; they make cartridges
that will fit the 38 Colt revolver? A. Yes,
sir, each factory.
Q. Now, do you know the weight of pow-
der or lead or bullet in the several different
makes of 38-calibre cartridges, both long
and short? A. Yes, sir; I have a cata-
logue here.
Q. Now, will you give us the weight; give
us the weight of the lead contained in the
38 calibre, short and long?
Mr. Erwin–I shall object to it as not
proper foundation laid, and not the best
evidence.
Mr. Hall–I will ask you whether or not





402 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
the weight of lead contained in the bullets
varies or is different in the several brands
of 38 cartridges to fit the 38 Colt revolver?
A. It is all different.
Q. Do they vary, different weights in
the different companies? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, I will ask you which company
makes the heaviest, puts in the most lead,
puts in the heaviest bullet for a 38 calibre
revolver?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as there is no
knowledge shown in the witness; it is not
the best evidence, taken from a catalogue,
which the witness is now using in his hand.
The Court—Answer the question yes or
no.
Q. Which cartridge is the heaviest, con-
tains the most lead, which is the heaviest
bullet of all the makes of bullets for a
long or short 38 cartridges—which has the
heaviest lead of all the makes of cartridges
—which has the most lead in it?
Mr. Erwin–Have you ever weighed the
cartridges yourself? A. Yes, sir. The U.
M. C. short and long, and the Winchester
Repeating Arms, short and long, 38 calibre.
That is all I weighed, those four.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I object.
The Court—I understand that he weighed
two of them, he must be confined to those
two and if it is necessary he can weigh the
balance.
Mr. Erwin–We have no objection to that.
(Examined by Mr. Hall.)
Q. Well, have you weighed the 38 short
of the Union Metalic Cartridge Company º
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that is the same as the exhibits
taken from the revolver—is that the same
as that? (Showing cartridge.) A. Yes,
they are short cartridges. -
Q. I will ask you if that is the Union
Metalic Company's make? (Showing cart-
ridge.) A. Yes, sir, the U. M. C.
Q. Those are the cartridges taken from
the revolver. Now, how many grains of
lead are contained in those cartridges? A.
Well, I have it here. (Referring to memor-
andum.) Thirty-eight caliber short, U. M.
C. make, weighs five pennyweights and
four grains. -
Q. One hundred and twenty-four grains
that would be? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Weighing one grain less than
this ball?
Mr. Hall–Yes, sir; this was 125 grains.
Mr. Erwin–That is right; a grain less?
Mr. Hall–Yes.
Q. So, the 38 short that you weighed
weighed five pennyweights and four grains?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, have you weighed a 38 short of
the Winchester Repeating Arm Company?
A. Yes, sir; I have weighed one or two
here.
Mr. Erwin–Put that one in evidence that
he has weighed and let's get it marked.
(The ball referred to by the witness as
weighing 124 grains of the U. M. C. make
marked exhibit G2.)
Mr. Erwin–Did you bring an extra one
with you? A. No, I took the bullet out.
Q: What did you discover the weight of
the lead to be in a 38 short of the Winches-
ter Repeating Arms Company's make -
what was the weight you found when you
weighed it? A. Well, the 38 short weighed
130 grains.
Q. That is six grains more than the
Union Metallic Company's cartridge? A.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Where is that cartridge?
Q. Have you got the cartridge there that
weighed 130 grains, the short? A. There
is the Winchester; it weighs 5 penny-
weights and 8 grains.
Mr. Smith–One hundred and twenty-eight
grains.
The Court—The witness says 130 grains
and the attorney says 128 grains.
Mr. Smith–He says it weighs 5 penny-
weights and 8 grains, and that would be 128
grains.
Q. What is the weight of this short of
the 38-calibre Winchester Repeating Arms
Company? A. Five pennyweights and eight
grains.
Q. And what is the catalogue weight of
those same cartridges?
Mr. Erwin–I don't care anything about
the catalogue. I object to that.
Q. As sold to the trade?
Mr. Erwin-No, your honor; a catalogue
cannot be read here, and we object to it on
the ground that there is no foundation laid
and hearsay.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
(The cartridges identified by the witness
as the Winchester Repeating Arms Com-
pany's make, 38 short, marked exhibit H2.)
Q. Now, did you weigh any other cart-
ridges of the Winchester Repeating Arms
Company, 38 short? A. Yes, I have one
here, long.
Q. Well, did you weigh any other one,
short? A. No, only this one.
Q. What did you find the weight of the
38 Winchester long to be? A. Thirty-eight
long, Winchester Repeating Arms Com-
pany's make, weighs 6 pennyweight and 6
era in S.
(The above cartridge referred to by the
witness, 38 Winchester long, marked exhibit
L2.
Q. Now, have you weighed a 38 long of
the Union Metallic Company? A. Yes.
Q. What is the weight of that? A. You
mean from the U. M. C.
Q. Yes. A. That weighs 6 pennyweights
and 9 grains.
Q. That is 153 grains. Then the short
cartridge of the Winchester is heavier than
the short cartridge of the U. M. C.? A.
Yes, sir, I think so.
(The cartridge identified by the witness
as the 38 long of the Union Metallic Com-
pany’s make, marked exhibit “J-2.”)
Q. Then the long 38 of the U. M. C. is
heavier than the long of the Winchester?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you any experience in the
moulding of bullets? A. Well, that is, I
have— -
Q. Well, you are familiar with the work
—you have had some experience in doing
it? A. Oh, yes, sir.
Q. And do you know how the bullets
that are put in those metallic cartridges
are made? A. Well, the most are made
from lead.
Q. Are they moulded or pressed? A.
Well, I don't know; I never was in the
manufactory to see how they made them.
Q. Well, in moulding bullets, do you
know whether it is possible, in using the
moulds, to get them of a uniform weight?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What difficulties arise in the way of







or THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
403
a change of half a pennyweight in the
moulds– -
Mr. Erwin–There is no prof that these
bullets were moulded, and I object to it
as immaterial and irrelevant and no foun-
dation laid.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Well, do you know whether, when a
builet or cartridge is shot from a revolver
it loses any weight? A. Oh, yes, sir.
Q. well, to what extent? A. That is
hard to tell; it depends upon whether it
struck a soft place or a hard place like
this.
Mr. Erwin–I object to that.
all been gone over.
The Court—Yes, I think so.
Q. Have you made any experiments with
38 long cartridges of the Union Metallic
Company, and do you know how much a
bullet of that weight would lose in being
discharged? A. No; I can't tell.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial.
The Court–Weil, he has answered it.
CROSS EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Have you tried any of the cartridges
which came out of the boxes where you
found these four specimens which have
That has
been introduced in evidence here this
morning into this revolver? A. No.
Q. Have you got those same boxes
which you took these specimens out of in
your possession now? A. They are in the
store. They are in an extra place. I can
get them right away.
Q. Will you bring them up to court some
time today? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, was not this revolver of Harry
Hayward's ordered specially for him by
your firm 2 A. I don’t have anything to do
in the sales department. I am in the
manufacturing and repairing department.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Will you bring to court some other
makes of 38 you have that are made to fit
Colt's revolvers? A. Well, I think there
are some Smith & Wesson that will fit it
pretty nearly.
Q. And also have you any of the United
States Cartridge Company’s 38—have you
any boxes of them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Bring some of them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I would like to have you bring a box
of that same make (showing witness a car-
tridge box). They are advertised to fit
Colt’s revolver? A. That is the Winches-
ter.
Q. Yes, bring a box of those?
sir.
Mr. Erwin–I would like to have it made
a record here now by statement how this
cartridge came to be lost; there are only
five of them here, and there should have
been six. Do you know how it was, Mr.
Hall, that it came to be lost?
(The stenographer here informed Mr. Er-
win that he delivered the cartridges to Mr.
Hall on Feb. 22, as substantially stated by
Mr. Hall, and at the time of so delivering
the cartridges there were only five deliv-
ered to Mr. Hall, the sixth being missing.)
Mr. Erwin-I had a hammer mark on
one of them; let's see if I can discover that
now.
(Mr. Hall here handed the cartridges to
Mr. Erwin, who examined the same.)
A. Yes,
Mr. Hall—you claimed to have discov-
ered a hammer mark on one, but I never
have been able to discover any; perhaps
your eyes are better than mine.
Mr. Erwin (after examining the car-
tridges), I would like to have it stated
that the cartridge that is lost is the one
that had the hammer mark on it. Your
honor, there is no question but what this
is entirely an accident, an inadvertance,
but it seems to me it ought to be shown
upon the record.
The court—who shall I charge with the
loss of it?
Mr. Erwin–Well, I don't know, your hon-
or, but if you would have no objections,
Mr. Hall, we will place them in the charge
of the clerk.
Mr. Hall–Very well.
(The cartridges were placed in the charge
of the deputy clerk.)
F. A. Dunsmoor
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Doctor, I desire to read to you a hy-
pothetical question.
The Court–Have you the other doctors
here so they can hear it?
(Dr. Nippert and Dr. Dunn took a chair
close to the witness so they could hear the
hypothetical question read.)
Q. I desire to read you the hypothetical
question that was read to the other doctors
in this case.
Mr. Erwin–Here is the testimony, your
honor, in regard to the buggy—
The Court—Well, it is the question we
are after, we don’t care anything about
the testimony. If he doesn’t get the hy-
pothetical question right you can object to
it and the court will rule upon it.
Mr. Erwin–Very well, sir.
Q. It has been testified to in this case by
Claus A. Blixt that on the 3d day of De-
cember he was in the carriage which you
have seen at the Dime Museum. It was a
carriage, an ordinary three-quarter piano
box buggy, the seat projecting some four
or five inches beyond the edge of the sides
of the body—
Mr. Erwin–I have the testimony here
now given by one of our witnesses as to
the description of the buggy and I wil.
read it now if I am allowed to.
The Court—Yes, go on.
(Mr. Erwin here read from previous tes-
timony describing the buggy.)
Mr. Hall (continuing with the hypotheti-
cal question asked by Mr. Erwin on Feb.
16, and published in full exclusively in
THE TRIBUNE on Sunday, Feb. 27.)
Q. I will ask you whether the fractures
and the laceration that I have just acked
you, the hypothetical question I just put,
could have been made by the fall out of the
buggy as I have described it, and under
the circumstances I have described it? A.
Yes, aside from the track of the wouno.
made by the bullet.
Q. Aside from the bullet wound the other
injuries, in your opinion, could have been
made by the fall from the buggy? A. Yes,
sir, all of them.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Suppose that under all the circum-
stances described in the hypothetical ques-
tion just asked you, this woman in slipping
out of the bugy in the manner indicated
in the hypothetical question, by having


404
OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
her feet placed outside the buggy box, and
falling in that way between the wheels, on
the wheel and thence between the wheels—
that in that fall the body had struck upon
the feet so that the heel mark of the shoe
had indented and left in the ground, and
then the body had fallen forward upon its
face; in your opinion could the fractures
to that skull have been caused by such tº
fall forward from standing on its feet or
from striking on its feet, striking on the
ground? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you think that a person by falling
forward from a standing position could
make both of the lineal fractures which
were found upon each side of the head of
this subject? A. I do, or I think the bul-
let could have done it.
Q. You think the fall could have done it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is all.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Doctor, was there any other injury
described in this hypothetical question
which might, aside from the fall, cause the
lateral fractures upon the skull?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as not re-direct–
not rebuttal.
Mr. Hall—The same question was asked
Dr. Norrid.
Mr. Erwin–It was on cross-examination.
The Court—Well, I was of the opinion all
the time that this testimony was not re-
buttal testimony; I supposed the experts
were called more particularly upon the
question whether these fractures were
made before or after death, but I permitted
it to go in and I will permit the other side
the same latitude.
Q. You may answer the question now,
doctor—do you thoroughly understand it?
A. Yes, the injury made to the skull by
the bullet might make the fractures, even
if they did not communicate with the aper-
ture made by the bullet itself.
Q. Will you please explain to the jury,
doctor, your reason for that opinion?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial and not re-direct.
The Court–Objection sustained.
Q. Doctor, have you seen or do you know
of case of fracture on both sides of the
head caused by a fall of no greater height
than a person standing on their feet and
falling to the ground, even where the sub-
ject was standing on his feet at the time of
receiving the injury? A. I have.
Mr. Erwin–That is objected to as imma-
terial, irrelevant and not re-direct.
The Court–Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Is that within your personal knowl-
edge, doctor? A. Yes, sir.
And was a fracture of the skull re-
ceived by such a fall? A. It was.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to the same as be-
fore.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Was the fracture on one or both sides
of the head 2
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as leading.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Well, what was the nature of the
fracture.
Mr. Erwin–The same objection.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. What was the nature of the fracture?
A. A fracture on one and both sides and
through the base—
Mr. Erwin–Were you present at this fall
and saw it?
A.. I was not.
Mr. Erwin–Then I object to it.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Then I move that his answer
be stricken out. All of his testimony on
that point.
The Court—It will be stricken out.
Q. Was it a case you were called to at-
tend? A. It was.
Q. Was the force of the fall—º
Mr. Erwin–I object, your honor.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
"º" here took a recess until 2 o'clock
O. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION, MARCH 1.
Dr. J. H. Dunn
examined by Mr. Hall
Q. You are a physician and Surgeon,
practicing your profession in this city? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Repeating to you without again re-
citing it, the same question I asked Dr.
Dunsmoor, I will ask you, under the same
facts stated in that hypothetical question,
whether in your opinion the fractures and
the laceration described in the question,
could have been made by the fall out of
the buggy? A. I think they could.
- Q. I will ask you whether you have ever
ºn your practice seen any fractures of
the skull that were due to a gun shot
Wound in the skull, and fractures other and
in different directions than the line of
the wound through the skull?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to, as no foundation
laid, and that he was not present at the
time they were made.
Mr. Hall–I ask him if he knows of such
a Case.
The Court—I think I will let you ask the
first question.
Mr. Erwin-Exception noted to the first
question.
Mr. Hall—I will ask you whether upon
the facts that have been stated in this case,
whether in your judgment the same hypo-
thetical question, whether in your judgment
the lateral fractures described in that ques-
tion, might not have been caused by the
effects or by the gunshot wounds in the
head?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to on the ground
that there is no foundation laid for the
question, and that he has not seen the per-
sons shot in whose head were found lateral
fractures, disconnected with the wound of
contact.
Objection sustained.
Q. I will ask you whether or no you are
familiar with any case of gunshot wounds
in the head, accompanied or in which the
lateral or other fractures other than the
fracture of entrance and exit by the bullet
was found? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What case was that with which you.
are familiarº
Mr. Erwin-I will ask him if he was pres-
ent at the time the fractures were made?
Mr. Hall–I will lay the foundation. I win
ask him what case it was 2.
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant
and no proper foundation laid.
Objection sustained.
Q. Have you made a study of the re-
ported cases, reported in the medical books



















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
of cases of fracture, lateral and other frac-
tures of the skull, which have accompanied
and which have been the result of gunshot
wounds to the head, the lines of fracture
not being themselves directly connected
with the exit and entrance wound in the
skull?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial, and not rebuttal;
and also an attempt to prove contents of
books of science.
Objection sustained.
Mr. Hall—I will ask you whether a skull
that has been perforated by a gunshot
wound is more or less liable to other frac-
tures by violence after the fracture by a
wound 2
Objected to. Sustained.
Q. Have you ever seen anybody shot in
the head? A. I don’t think I ever have.
Q. Have you ever been called to treat
patients who have been shot in the head? A.
Yes; a good many of them. -
Q. In which there were other fractures
than the fracture caused by the shot?
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant.
Q. I will ask you whether or not the
skull of a female is more brittle and liable
to break at contact with violence than
that of a male?
Objected to as not rebuttal.
The Court—I think it is rebuttal.
Mr. Hall–I will ask you to give your
reasons for your answer to the first ques-
tion that I put to you, that the injuries
which I described to you in the question,
might have been caused by the fall, the in-
juries other than the gun shot? A. It is a
matter of general experience, and my per-
sonal experience, that sometimes a very
slight amount of violence is sufficient to
fracture the skull. And it is also the gen-
eral experience that when the skull is frac-
tured by moderate violence the contra coup
are fractured sometimes by a very slight
blow; and it occurs sometimes when
the violence is great the contact with the
skull has been great; in other words, by
severe blows the skull is crushed in, we
do not have, often have, contra coup frac-
tures; but in slighter forms of injury they
are frequent. My opinion is that skulls
are fractured sometimes from a very slight
amount of violence, and other times very
severe violence does not fracture the skull.
Therefore I answered the question as I un-
derstood it, that such an amount of vio-
lence may fracture the skull. I will say
that undoubtedly it may, I do not say it
must. -
Q. I will ask you if the skull of the mur-
dered woman had been, previous to the
fall, perforated as described in the hypo-
thetical question, by a bullet, would it
have been more or less inclined, the skull,
to break that contact and force than if
it had not been so perforated with the bul-
let–
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as no foundation
laid, nor that he has had any experience in
seeing gun shot wounds.
Objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–No questions.
L. C. Nippert
recalled and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are the physician who formerly
testified in this case and assisted at the
autopsy on the body of Catherine Ging?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you if you discovered any
evidence along the track of the bullet in
the head of Catherine Ging, of any for-
eign substance? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was it and where did you find
it? A. They were in the body of the
sphenoid bone gray particles which were
supposed to be lead. These particles of
lead were about the center of the bullet
wound, as I say, in the body of the
sphenoid bone.
Mr. Erwin–A pencil could have made
the mark.
Mr. Hall–These bits of lead, were they
in any other places than scattered among
the particles of bone? Did you find
any upon the bone?
Objected to as assuming a matter not
proved.
Q. I will ask you definitely and fully to
describe the appearance and evidence of
lead along the track of that wound? A.
They were simply particles of metallic
lead such as you find bullets consist of,
and lying upon the bone and imbedded in
the bone partially.
Mr. Erwin–Small particles? A. Yes, sir.
George W. Payette
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You worked for the American Dis-
trict Telegraph Company? A. Yes, sir.
Do you remember being called upon
the 30th day of November to the Oneida.
Block to deliver a message? A. Yes.
Q. Who delivered that message to you?
A. The elevator man. I took the message
to room 65 Syndicate Block at 3:40 in the
afternoon of Nov. 30.
Q. Did you get any answer? A. Yes.
Q. Where did you deliver the answer?
A. The top floor, Oneida Block, to Harry
Hayward.
Q. Was there any ticket on that mes-
sage? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you got it with you? A. Yes,
Slt.
Q. Who signed that ticket? A. Mr. Hay-
ward.
Mr. Erwin–No objection to it.
The ticket was marked exhibit K-2.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin. -
Q: Who did you deliver the message to
at 65 Syndivate Block? A. Miss Ging. It
was a letter.
Q. Did you bring a letter back? A. Yes.
Q. And deliver that to Mr. Hayward?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you deliver any
that day? A. Not to him.
Mr. Hall–Do you know whether there
was any other message delivered by the
American District Telegraph Office to Mr.
Hayward that day? A. No, sir.
Q. Whether or not any other message
was delivered that day for Mr. Hayward?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Have you looked over the books that
day to see if there was any other? A. No,
Sir.
Mr. Smith–They would not allow us to
look over the books.
Elling Hance
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. During the months of April and May,
and up to some time in July, where did
you work? A. For W. W. Hayward, at
the Ozark. -
Q. What were your duties there? A. I
other message





OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
was night man; attended the furnace at
night. Three months after that I was off
and on doing a little.
Q. In your duties in attending to the
furnace, what, if anything, did you have
to do with the grates of the furnace? A.
I did not have to do anything except to
hold them clean.
Q. How about your duties in the morn-
ing, with reference to cleaning the grates?
A. Cleaning out the ashes and attending to
the fire.
Q. During the spring time of the year,
fires were kept up in the furnace? A. Yes,
until about the 1st of May; then we com-
menced to slack up.
Q. I will ask you whether or not the
grates in the furnace of the Ozark were
new or whether they were burned out? A.
No, sir; not as far as I could know any-
thing about it.
Q. Do you know anything about any T
rail that was being put into the grate dur-
ing that time? A. No, sir; not in the time
that I was there.
Q. Was there ever any piece of iron or
iron of that kind put into that grate during
that time? A. No, sir; not in the time
that I was there.
Q. While you were there was there any
iron put into that furnace? A. Yes; but
not in the furnace; in the boiler.
Q. Where was that piece of iron pro-
cured? A. Down on Third street and
Tenth avenue.
Q. At a place kept by Skellet & Schul-
man? A. No, sir; by Manser.
Q. Did you go with Hayward to get that
piece of iron? A. Yes, sir.
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant.
Overruled.
Q: What kind of a piece of iron did you
get?
Objected to as irrelevant and immaterial,
and not rebuttal or impeachment.
Objection overruled. Exception.
A. That is a piece of plate he wanted to
have in the ash room back of the boiler;
and the plate was 22x36, and I went to the
scrap iron yard.
Q. At what place? -
Objected to as not impeaching anybody
in this case and not proper rebuttal.
The Court—I understood the testimony
that the iron was got of them, was in the
latter part of April or in May.
Mr. Hall—I will ask you whether during
the latter part of April or the first of May
you ever went with Mr. Hayward; did you
ever go to look for iron anywhere? A.
Yes; the first part of May.
Q. Where did you go? A. On Fourth
street, between Tenth and Eleventh, to the
scrap iron yard.
Q. Did you look at iron at that place?
A. Yes, sir.
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant
and not rebuttal.
The Witness–And we could not find in
that yard the plates and the man was
along with us there, and came and asked
Mr. Hayward—
Mr. Erwin–The same objection.
Mr. Hall—Was there anything else shown
you there to take its place? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial
and proving declarations of parties not con-
nected with this case, nor connecting them
by testimony.
Mr. Hall—I ask you if anything was
shown you there to take the place of the
plate you were looking for?
The Court—What did he say?
Mr. Hall—They were shown T rails and
did not take them.
Did you get any T. rail there at that
point at that time?
Objected to as innaterial.
Exception. -
A. No, sir.
Q. Up to the time that you left in June
sometime, was there or was there not
any piece of T' rail in the furnace, the
furnace there at the Ozark? A. Yes, there
was. I don’t know where it came from;
it was there when I started in.
Q. Whereabouts is that piece of T. rail?
A. It is lying in the furnace close up
to the brick wall.
Q. Was that there when you left? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any other piece of T rail
about that you know of at that time? A.
No, sir.
Q. Was that procured before you went
there sometime in February; it was there
when you went there? A. Yes.
Mr. Hall–Take the Witness.
Mr. Erwin–I move to strike out the
entire testimony of the witness.
The Court–Motion denied.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Do you know anything about an en-
gine or boiler? A. Yes, I have a little
knowledge.
Q. Did you have anything to do with
the management of the engine or boiler
there, except to put in some coal and take
out some ashes? A. Yes, sir; I had to put
the fire and attend to it with water, and
in the evening to shut if off.
Q. Now, did you ever have anything to
do with repairing the boilers? A. No, sir.
Q. Then when you say you don’t know
of anything being done, you mean to say
that you don’t know of something being
done which you had no charge of? A.
There was nothing done that I know of.
You say there is a T rail in one of
the boilers. About how long it that T rail?
A.. I guess about four feet, a little over; I
did not measure it.
. Do you know who put that T rail in
there? A. No, sir.
Q. You were not present when it was
put in 2 A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know what time you first
noticed it? A. Yes, sir. I noticed it the
second night I was there in February.
Q. You were not present when any re-
pairs were made upon the boilers or fire-
box or anything of the kind? A. Yes, I
was. We always done that nights, and we
had a good deal of repairing, and I was
there when we done it, because we could
not do it in the daytime because everything
was hot.
Q. When did you stop work for Mr.
Hayward? A. I stopped, I think, it was
the first part of June.
Q. Were you not in the habit of getting
intoxicated while you worked for Hay-
ward? A No, sir.
Q. Didn't Mr. Hayward pay your wife
your wages, and make you very angry be-
cause they were not paid to you? A. No,
I”.
Q. Now, about this piece of boiler iron,
what did you want to mend when you
Overruled.






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
407
went to look at boiler iron, plate iron.
What did Mr. Hayward want to repair?
A. That is this place back of the boiler,
and there is a cover on the top, where the
ashes goes down, and there is a cover on
that and that is burned out, and a piece
that was bent down there, so we could
clean that over the flues, and told him lots
of times that we could not clean it from
the flues, and told me to be there and he
would come down to the block, and I would
go with him and get it and see if he
could find it.
Q. How big a piece of plate was that?
A. That was 22.
The Court—I think I ruled that out.
Mr. Erwin–I ask to have that ruled out.
I move to strike out all about the boiler
plate business, and the trip to the yard in
relation to it.
The Court–It will be stricken out.
Mr. Hall– Mr. Jaeche is here, and you
can continue the cross-examination.
Mr. Erwin–I offer these cartridges in
evidence, The box shows what they are.
Mr. Jaesche—Yes, sir.
Mr. Erwin–The box from which you took
the samples this morning, offered in testi-
innon v.
Mr. Jaesche—Yes, sir.
Mr. Hall—I offer them in evidence in con-
nection with it.
Charlotte Hayward
was recalled and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Have you any recollection of where
you were on the night of the 27th of April,
1894? A. I have. I was driving with my
husband, Adry Hayward.
Q. Do you remember in what kind of
vehicle you took the ride with your hus-
band that night? A. Only by calling it as
we always did the piano box buggy.
Q. Do you remember anything about the
time when your husband came for you to
ride that night? A. I know it was late.
Q. Is there any circumstance by which
you recall the fact of the ride that night?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You may state it to the jury, exactly
what it was that calls it to you? A. In
reading the paper one night I read of Mr.
Hayward's brother being held up in the
woods and relieved of valuables and I SayS,
“Why, Harry was held up the other
night,” or the night before that we were
riding and might have been held up our-
selves. I said, “Do you know anything of
it,” and we talked of the matter. That
is why I remember. -
Q. Do you recall any circumstance oc-
curring out of the usual in the forenoon
of the 30th of November?
Objected to as not rebuttal.
The Court—I don't know whether it is or
not. Answer it yes or no. Objection over-
ruled.
Mr. Erwin–It is quite evident he intends
to prove now the whereabouts of Adry
Hayward on the 30th. Objected to as im-
material, irrelevant and not rebuttal.
The Court–Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted. -
The Court—You answer that question yes
or no.
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hall– Now, I will ask you if you saw
Your husband on that forenoon? A. I did.
He came to our home at an unusual hour.
It was about an hour before dinner. Our
dinner time was 12 o'clock, I asked him if
he had come for dinner.
Q. You need not state what he said. Do
you know what your husband did when he
was there, or what he got?
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
not rebuttal.
The Court-Answer it yes or no. A. Yes,
sir.
Q. I will ask you what your husband
did get at that time?
Objected to as irrelevant, immaterial and
not rebuttal.
Objection overruled. Exception.
A: I did not know at the time what he
got.
Q. Did you learn immediately after he
left?
Objected to. Sustained.
How soon after he left did you dis-
cover? A. Immediately after he went out
of the door.
Q: What did you discover immediately
on his leaving the flat at that time?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial and not rebuttal.
Overruled. Exception.
A: I went to his room as I had heard.
what he did.
Q: What sound did you hear from the
room in which he went?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial and not rebuttal.
Objection sustained.
Q: What did you
went into the room?
Same objection. Overruled. Exception.
A: I went into his room.
A. After he had sone, what did you dis-
cover? A: I went into his room and dis-
govered that he had taken his revolver-
from his dresser. I don't think he could
have been in there 3 minutes.
Same objection. Overruled. Exception.
Q. Do you recall, Mrs. Hayward, circum-
stances of the 8th day of October, the day.
of the trouble between Adry and his Qa.
rents? A. Most certainly I do.
Q. Did or did not Harry Hayward
come down to the flat occupied by you
and your husband on that day, after the
trouble had occurred up stairs? A. Al-
most immediately after my husband came
down.
Q. Did or did not your husband Adry
threaten the life of Harry Hayward?
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevant,
not rebuttal, not impeaching.
Mr. Shoemaker—Harry said that Adry
went into Harry's room and the threats
were made there.
At this point Mr. Shoemaker read some
of º previous testimony of Harry Hay-
ward.
nº Erwin-That shows it was in Adry's
at.
Mr. Hall—I will ask you whether or not
Harry came into the flat at that time
and had a conversation with your husband?
Objected to as not impeaching and no
foundation laid in the cross-examination
of Harry.
Objection overruled. Exception.
A. He had a conversation with me. I
cannot say that he spoke to my husband.
Q. I will ask you if Adry, your husband,
left the building at that time and went
away with Harry in his room? A. He went
away with Harry soon after.
discover when you.



408
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Q. I will ask you whether or not at that
time Adry made any threats upon the
life of his brother?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as no founda-
tion laid, and not a contradiction of any-
thing testified to, and not rebuttal.
The Court—It is in reference to the fact
of the statemment.
Mr. Erwin–There is no proof of Adry
making threats against Harry's life at that
time. Harry did not swear to that.
Mr. Hall—You need not answer the ques-
tion.
Q: What was your husband's manner at
that time, was it enraged towards Harry
or was it not? A. Not towards his broth-
er; enraged at his father.
Mr. Hall—You can take the witness.
Mr. Erwin–We won’t ask any ques-
tions.
Adry Hayward
was recalled, and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Whereabouts were you on the night of
the 27th of April? A. Driving with my
wife. I went down town to the livery
stable, Guaranty Loan Office court, and
called up a rig about 20 minutes of 9. I
went down town for another purpose first.
It was rather late, and I called for a rig
about 20 minutes to 9, and left the stable
about 10 minutes to 9, and according to
my memory I got to the house five to eight
minutes after 9; 15 or 20 minutes driving
out; asked my wife to take a ride; she did
not expect me; and it was rather late:
we went for the drive. I don't know just
where we went, drove about an hour, and
then I took the horse back to the stable.
Q. Where did you leave your wife in
coming back from the drive? A: 32 Cal-
houn, at the house.
Q. After leaving your wife, where did
you go? A: I went back to the stable;
took the horse to the stable, and came
home on the car, and I suppose I was home
20 or 25 minutes after I left the stable, and
got back just about 11. I would not say 11.
Q. were you on that night any where
near the road running between Lake of the
Isles and Lake Calhoun, the place describ-
ed by your brother Harry, as the place
where a hold up took place? A. My mem-
ory it that we did not drive that way at
all. I don't remember exactly how We
drove. I think we drove around Calhoun
and around Harriet, and from there on to
Lyndale avenue, and took the Lyndale back
to Thirteenth, and came back down Hen-
nepin avenue home.
Q. From the time you reached your home
driving direct from the stable, until you
returned to your home, was anybody else
with you, or did you meet anybody else
that night? A: I met a number of rigs; I
did not meet anybody that I recognized or
remember now. Of course I passed a great
many people.
Q. Were you out of the buggy? A. No,
sir, not either way; not either way was I
out of the buggy anywhere on that trip.
Q. You heard the testimony of your
brother Harry? A. I did.
Q. The conversation, and what took place
between you and him on the morning of
the 28th. I will ask you whether or not
such conversation or occurrence ever took
place? A. There is not a word of truth in
it.
Q. Have you ever seen the watch that
was shown here in evidence, the watch
produced at that time? A. The first time
1 ever saw the watch afterwards was some
º the latter part of November follow-
ng.
Q. When last before the 27th of April,
had you seen that watch? A. I saw the
watch, I saw it quite frequently. Before
he was carrying a solid gold watch, and he
got held up and carried the filled case.
Q. The watch which Harry usually car-
ried was the watch he is carrying now?
A. At that time he carried the best, is my
memory; he bought this solid watch I think
it was last spring. He bought it of Elliot
down town; and carried one as much as
the other, but that night he had the filled
case which was shown the other day; I
bought it in '81 and sold it; I owned it
two or three times. I carried it about eight
years myself.
Q. That same watch produced here? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. At that time it did belong to Harry?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That time he had another watch?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The same watch he carries now? A.
I think it is the same one.
Q. Is it a much more valuable watch?
A. A great deal more valuable. He told
me he paid $2,200 or $2,250 for the works;
bought the works of Elliot.
Q. Now you say that some time in No-
vember you saw this watch? A. I saw
the watch. I think it was the week, it was
some time during the week that I had the
trouble with Harry; some time before the
30th of November; some time during that
week; some time about the 24th; I could
not say the exact date.
Q. Where was it, and under what cir-
cumstances that you saw the watch at that
time? A. Well, I saw the watch in the
safe, that little safe, while he was counting
some money, changing some money that he
had there, and he took the watch out of
the safe, and I made a remark about the
watch about that time. I never saw the
watch until after the hold up.
Q. When had you first known about the
watch previous to that? A. Some time in
September, when he offered me $2,000 for
killing a woman; that is, I did not see it
then, but he spoke of it.
Q. I will ask you what Harry then said
to you about the watch? A. The first I
knew of the watch was in September, about
the hold-up, and expressed to me before the
hold-up about killing a woman, how it could
be done, and never would suspect a young
man like him that never did anything
wrong, and myself. He said, “I engineered
that hold-up; you never knew it. It was a
total failure.” -
Objected to.
Q. I will ask him the impeaching ques-
tion. I will ask you whether or not in the
month of September, and during the con-
versation in which he was trying to pre-
vail upon you to do something for him, did
Harry not say to you these words, or this
in substance: “Now, for instance, I en-
gineered the hold-up though it was a fail-
ure, did not come out right; the fellow or
the fool,”
“stood so long at the horse's head that the
girls had a chance to get their diamonds in
their mouths and get their money out of
the way, and that he had planned the thing
using one or the other term,











OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
and had gone out there, and that he gave
a signal by singing a song, which was to
be a signal to the fellow that he was to
hold them up, and that he understood or
believed that the women had some money
with them that night?” A. I don’t under-
stand what month you said there.
Q. September. A. He did.
Q. You heard the testimony of your
brother that on the morning of the 28th of
April, after the conversation which he re-
lated and the remarks which he related in
the office,—no, it was on the following day,
that the following day he went with you
to the scene of the hold-up and out on the
shore of Lake Calhoun, that you there had
a long talk with him and admitted to him
that you had a mania for crime and that
you had no conscience about these things,
and the rest that you recall? A. I don’t
understand that he said I went with him
to the scene of the hold-up; I don’t think
he said it. He stated about the lake.
Q. Out on Lake Calhoun ? A. I did not;
I was not out there. I never spoke to him
about any mania, except his own mania,
which I stated to him which I thought he
had got. -
Q. Was he there at the time he indi-
cates? A. I don’t think he was. He was
out there a number of days afterwards
and called for a rake, and my wife said
that was the dressmaker with him, and he
wanted to rake for earrings; my remem-
brance is it was about a week afterwards.
Q. Did you ever state or admit to your
brother any of the things which he testified
to here, about a criminal mania on your
part, or the commission of any offense on
your part? A. Never admitted any such
thing, and there is not a word of truth in
anything he said in regard to it, not a
word.
Q. I will ask you, did you have anything
whatever to do with the hold-up, or know
anything about it before you saw it in the
newspaper? Nothing about it. I told him
afterwards I suspicioned him. After he
told me about the talk in September I told
him why I suspicioned him.
Last question was here read by stenog-
rapher.
A.. I did not.
Q. Did you know of there having been
a hold-up occur on the 28th 2 A. The day
after it occurred, I am not sure that I did,
but I think I knew it the day after; I think
Harry told me himself.
Mr. Erwin–T object to what he told him
and ask to have it stricken out.
The Court—What Harry told him will be
stricken out.
Mr. Hall–You have heard the testimony
of your father and mother that you have
on frequent occasions threatened the life of
your brother? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you if that is
Never in my life; it is not true.
Q. Is it or not true that you have borne
ill will or a grudge toward your brother?
A.. I don’t think I have borne a grudge ex-
cept on one occasion, as I said before in
the cross-examination, and I did not think it
true? A.
was a grudge; there is liable to be quarrels
amongst any brothers.
Q. Up to a late date, was your brother
in the habit of intrusting to you, or did he
intrust to you valuable packages to be
placed in your safety vault?
Objected to as no foundation laid. Over-
ruled.
A. He never did after the first of Sep-
tember, not after the first of September,
and only I think twice before that from
the time I had the box; and them. I did not
know what was in the packages that he
sealed up. -
Q. It has been testified to or intimated
to here in the testimony that you had
some knowledge or connection with the
crime of Claus A. Blixt, and in its lerpe-
tration. I will ask you if you had any
knowledge whatever of Claus A. Blixt, or
any other connection or knowledge of this
affair, other than what you testified in
your direct examination? A. That is all;
what I heard from Harry is all I ever had
in that way, the talk that I had.
Q. Did you know anything more about
this murder and this affair than what you
learned from your conversation with your
brother Harry? A. Nothing whatever;
nothing that I knew at all except what he
has told me; not a thing.
Q. Prior to the time of your going upon
the stand, had you ever had any talks or
communications with Claus A. Blixt? A.
Never in my life.
Objected to as immaterial and irrelevnat.
Overruled. Exception.
The Witness—I never had.
Q. Your brother testified that in the pres-
ence of Mr. Ege at the Ramsey county jail
you admitted— -
Mr. Erwin–That is what Harry started
to tell Ege. They were never together in
St. Paul. -
The Court–Harry and Adry were not to-
gether in St. Paul, but Adry and Ege were.
Mr. Erwin–Harry testified that he start-
ed to tell Sheriff Ege in St. Paul these
things, and to tell his brother that he
would not tell about these things, but they
interrupted him. That was all there was
of it. He started to tell Sheriff Ege.
Mr. Erwin–Here is the testimony (reads.)
“You have reason to believe now that he
told you the whole story? A. Yes, sir. I
don’t believe he told Adry, but he stuck to
it clear to the end. He told him “You may
depend upon it that I will keep it; even
told Sheriff Ege in St. Paul.”
Mr. Hall—That is the end of a sentence.
The Court—It was stricken out. It was
hearsay testimony.
Mr. Erwin–It is not claimed that Adry
told Sheriff Ege in St. Paul any such thing.
Mr. Hall–I will ask you, did you or did
you not say to Sheriff Ege or to Harry in
St. Paul, “Harry, don’t tell that on me?”
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial, ir-
relevant and not contradictory, because
such a thing was not testified to by Harry.
Harry did not say that he attempted to tell
Sheriff Ege in St. Paul.
The Court—vojection overruled.
The Witness–Simply yes or no?
The Court—Yes.
A. No, sir. I never told any, such thing.
Never made any such remark in regard to
the hold up.
Mr. Hall–Did Harry at that time say to
you or send word to you, “You may de-
pend upon it that I will keep it,” in the
jail in St. Paulº -
The Court—This conversation was all in
the jail here.
Mr. Hall–This referred to the talk be-












410 OFFICIAL STENOG RAF HIC REPORT
tween Adry and Harry which Harry testi-
fied to on the morning of discovering the
watch. On cross-examination I asked him,
“You have reason to believe he told you
the whole truth?” A. I don’t believe he
told the truth, but he stuck to it clear to
the end, even in the jail. He said, “Harry,
don’t tell that on e. You can depend on
it I will keep it; even told Sheriff Ege in
St. Paul.”
Mr. Erwin–We don’t claim that he was
ever with him at the jail in St. Paul.
Mr. Hall–Wasn't Harry in the Ramsey
county jail at one time? A. I never saw
him, although the jailer told me he was
there eight or 10 days. Said he was in the
upper corridor.
The Court—They were not in a room to-
gether, except in one place.
Mr. Hall–Did Harry at that time or any
other place there communicate to you or
speak to you in such words as that? A.
Harry did not speak to me. He sent some-
thing by Mr. Ege. Something I could not
quite understand. I will state the message
as near as my memory can give it.
Objected to as immaterial and no founda-
tion laid.
Sustained.
Q. Nothing of this kind said, nor mes–
sage of that kind sent, or any such an-
swer given? A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. How far is it from the Alley livery
stable to where you lived at Lake Cal-
hounº A. About three miles. I don’t
thing it is quite that far. They call it
three miles.
Q. You swear that you went down to the
Alley livery stable and hired a horse at
9 o'clock that night? A. I said I called for
a horse about 15 or 20 minutes of 9 and
left at 10 minutes of 9.
Q. You say you called down there at
that time of night to get a horse, to bring
out three miles and bring your wife driv-
ing, and don’t know where you went? A.
Yes, I stated so. I frequently take a ride
as late as 8:40. -
Q. You take it as you did on this oc-
casion to cover some deed? A: I did not
cover any deed; I had no deeds to cover
whatever.
Q. Do you remember Ben Rydell, a fel-
low prisoner confined with you?
(Mr. Rydell here arose and came up to-
wards the witness.)
The Witness—(To Rydell)—You were put
in for jumping a board bill. Yes, I remem-
ber him.
Q. Do you know this gentleman whom
they call Ben Rydell? A. I know his face,
yes, sir.
Q. You recollect when he was brought
into the jail there? A. I can’t recollect
particularly when, but I think he came in
the morning with a number of others.
Q. On the second day that Mr. Rydell
was in jail, did he come into your cell
and have a conversation with you? A. He
attempted, yes.
Q. In the course of that conversation did
you say to him: “I know that Harry did
not have anything to do with the murder,
because he was at the opera and not
around the block?” A. Well, I can't an-
swer it. I said no such thing. Nothing of
that kind.
Q. Did you say to him in that conversa-
tion as follows: “I know Harry did not
have anything to do with that murder?”
A. I did not. I don't want to lie, but I
want you to let me explain.
Q. I am not asking you about any ex-
planation. Are you still attended by the
deputy 2 A. I am, sir.
Q. Where do you board now 2
Mr. Hall—That is objected to as incom-
petent, irrelevant and immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Are you still boarded at the expense
of the state?
Mr. Hall–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Q. Is this deputy sheriff the deputy sher-
iff who accompanies you around?
Mr. Hall—The same objection.
The Court—Same ruling
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Are you ever out of his presence?
Mr. Hall—Same objection.
The Court—Same ruling.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Mr. Hall–We further object to a verbal
offer on the same line.
Q. You say you had nothing to do with
this murder of Catherine Ging? A. Noth-
ing whatever, as I stated before.
Q. Where were you on the night of the
murder? A. I was over to Mr. Chamber-
lain's a portion of the evening, about an
hour and 20 minutes.
Q. Where were you about 6 o'clock? A.
In my house, in my flat.
Q. Where were you at 6:15? A. As far
as I know I was there the same time, from
that time until 17 or 20 minutes of 8, home.
Q. You mean your house? A. At the
Ozark.
The Court—What is this?
Mr. Erwin–He testified here he had noth-
ing to do with the murder of Catherine
Ging.
The Court—When did he so testify 3
Mr. Erwin–On his direct examination, in
answer to a question put to him by the
counsel.
The Court—I do not understand it. He
said he had nothing to do with this holdup.
Mr. Hall—There was a question of that
kind asked him; you said you had some-
thing to do with Blixt—did you have any
communication with Mr. Blixt or anything
to do with this affair other than you have
testified to 2'' And he said not.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, he
said—
Mr. Hall—Well, let the reporter read it.
I asked him if he had any further commu-
nication or dealings with Blixt other than
this affair he had testified to and he said
not—I asked him a general question and he
said no.
The Court–Well, go on.
Q. where were you at 6:15? A. As I
stated, I was in my flats as far as I know.
At 6:30? A. The same place.
Q. At 6:40? A. The same place.
Q. And at 6:45? A. The same place.
Q. And from that time until 8 o'clock?
A. I was not there until 8 o'clock; I left
there about 12 minutes of 8.
Q. Then from 6 o'clock until 12 minute.
of 3 you were in your ſlatº A. I think I
was.
|
|





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
411.
court ain't going to strike it out.
stricken out, and
The Court—Well, this has all been gone
over.
Mr. Erwin–I know it was, your honor,
but I did not go over it on this point, the
door was not opened.
Mr. Hall–Well, I move to strike it out
as not being the proper foundation for in-
peachment, upon that ground.
Mr. Erwin–This is cross-examination.
Mr. Hall—Well, it is not proper for the
purpose of impeachment; this is only an
attempt to lay a foundation for an im-
peachment that may not be reached by
the state, and I move to strike the testi-
mony out for any purpose of impeachment.
The Court–Well, it will not be stricken
out. If you set there and let the witness
testify without making an objection, the
Mr. Hall–Very well, I move that it be
stricken out for the purpose of impeach-
ment.
The Court–Well, I will deny the motion.
If you want to object to testimony you
must object to it when the witness is giv-
ing it.
Q. Between 3 minutes of 7 o'clock and
a quarter after 7 o'clock, on the night of
December 3, the night of Miss Ging's mur-
der, did you not go out of the Ozark Flats
and move across Thirteenth street-no-
across Hennepin avenue-
Mr. Hall—I ask that that offer be made
to the court.
Q.-and across Hennepin and walk past
William Kennedy, and walk up Thirteenth
street?
Mr. Hall–Wait a minute. That is ob-
jected to as irrelevant and immaterial, and
not proper cross-examination at this time.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
Q. Did you have on your overcoat-
The Court—These questions, if I recollect
right, were asked once before.
Mr. Erwin–No, sir, not that I remember
of.
The Court—Well, objection sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Is Mr. Kennedy in the court
room—Mr. William Kennedy. Well, we of:
fer in this connection, the court will rule
it out—I simply want to offer in this con-
nection to identify the man William Ken-
nedy, he is not here now.
The Court–Well, when you get him here
I will rule upon it.
Mr. Erwin–Well, he is under slºb poena,
and I supposed he was here—well, I will
call his attention to it when he connes in:
he is not here now. Your honor, I move to
have struck out the testimony of Adry
Hayward to the effect that he had nothing
to do wint the Ging murder, on his direct,
since I am not allowed to cross-examine
him on that fact. -
The Court—It may be stricken out—the
motion is granted.
Mr. Hall—Then I move that the rest of
the testimony in reference to where he was
on that night be stricken out.
The Court—It is all stricken out.
Mr. Erwin–Then, it is understood that
this witness' testimony, that his denials,
as a party connected with this murder, be
stricken out.
The Court—Yes, sir; that one answer is
the cross-examination
pertaining to it—that is all.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. Now, referring to this man Rydell,
you were going to qualify your answer as
to whether or no you did or did not use the
words asked you by the counsel. What, if
anything, did you say to Rydell at the time
to which your attention has been called?
A. That morning when he came into the
jail he came to me and he said, “Your
name is Adry Hayward?” I told him it
was, and he said, “I am from the junction
up north, and no difference what comes,
you stand pat.” I said, “That don't make
any difference with me. I have told Elder
Stewart, and I have got to tell what I know
about this.” He said, “Well, that don't
make any difference; you stand pat.” I can
prove it by another prisoner in the jail. I
told him. I did not want to talk to him
about it. -
The Court—The question put to you was
whether or not you stated to him that
Harry was at the theater that night.
Q. Did or did you not use any such lan-
guage as was asked you, in response to any
question put by him, that Harry was not
in it, or did you say anything of that char-
acter? A. I said I did not know that Harry
was guilty, and I don’t know it now. That
is just what I said, and I will acknowledge
it yet, and I don't know it yet—that is
what I said to him.
Q. What do you mean by that answer?
The Court—You need not state what you
mean. I want to have you confine him to
those two questions that were asked him.
Mr. Hall—That is all.
Mary C. Mathes
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Mrs. Mathes, were you taking your
meals together with your husband at No. 6
Thirteenth street south, Dec. 3, and prior
to that time? A. I was. -
Q. You took your meals at the same
table with Harry Hayward? A. I did.
Q. Having your seat directly across at
the same table from him 2 A. I did.
Q. At what hour did you and your hus-
band go to supper on the evening of Dec.
3? A. A quarter of 7.
Q. How soon after you sat down at the
supper table did Harry Hayward come in?
A. Some time afterwards, I could not tell
you how soon.
Q. Was he alone when he came in. A.
He was.
Q. How long was Mr. Hayward eating
supper that evening? A. A very short
time.
Q: What circumstance is it that recalls
to your mind the fact that he was a very
short time eating his supper that evening?
A. The manner in which he left the table.
It was a very hasty one. Having left the
table very hastily, I noticed then he had
eaten but very little. I should think it was
a few minutes after 7 he came in and he
certainly could not have been there more
than eight minutes, five to eight minutes,
perhaps—a very short time. The soup was
brought him immediately after entering
the room; he was served with soup im-
mediately upon sitting at the table and I
think he took but two spoonfuls, a very
little anyway; and then he rejected his
supper; he refused the dinner, but took per-
haps something little more; I should think
he took a look at the dessert rather than eaſt-
ing it; the reason for his leaving seemed to







412 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
be the departure of the people at the other
table.
Q. Well, you may describe the manner
of his leaving in reference to the time
when the other people left the supper ta-
ble. A. The others left the table all in a
bunch, left the dining room together, and
in leaving, the young ladies passed through
the door first; I should judge there were
three of them, and then the gentlemen
afterward; there were three gentlemen, I
think, and the door was still ajar and the
last gentleman endeavored to close it,
when Harry pumped from the table, en-
deavoring to catch it before closing it.
Q. And who was in the dining room
when Harry left as you have described 2
A. I think my husband and myself were
the only ones in the dining room when
Harry left.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Are you a sister of Mrs. Adry Hay-
Ward 2 A. I am.
Q. Is there a feud between the Hayward
and Chamberlain family? A. Why, I don't
understand you.
Q. Well, do you call on each other, ex-
change visits with each other, the Hay-
wards and Chamberlains 7 A. Not very
frequently.
Q. Well, between you and Harry, is
there or has there been very much friend-
ship? A. As much as there was an op-
portunity for it.
Q. Now, as near as I can get at it, you
left the supper table about 25 minutes
after 77 A. Not as late as that. I reach-
ed my home exactly at 20 minutes past 7.
Q. What makes you remember with such
elegant detail his coming—his mouthful of
soup, his rejection of the dinner course,
his look at the dessert and his jumping
up and catching the door—what makes
you remember all these things with such
delicate nicety? A. The excitement which
followed the next day.
Q. How far is your home from the
Ozark, how many door? A. The first
door.
Q. And you got home 20 minutes past
7? A. It was 20 minutes past 7 after We
were in the drawing room.
Q. How long does it take to go from the
sidewalk into your drawing room? A. No
time at all.
Q. And then how long would it take
you to walk from the Ozark? A. Prob-
ably 2 minutes; I never timed it.
Q. Well, then, you left 18 minutes after
7–you left the dining room 18 minutes
after 7% A. Yes, sir, I should think so.
Q. And you put Harry's leaving there
in the neighborhood of 15 minutes after
7? A. I don’t know that; I only know
his manner of leaving.
Q. Well now, how came you to remem-
ber looking at the clock and finding it was
exactly 20 minutes after 7 when you got
to the house? A. Because it was my
father's birthday and we were anxious to
spend the evening together, for my hus-
band found it necessary to go out; so I
found an opportunity to look at the clock;
I noticed it three times during the even-
ing.
Q. Well, Harry admits himself leaving
the supper table 22 minutes past 7? A.
Our clocks are not alike.
Q. Well, perhaps not.
James E. Ford
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Mr. Ford, where is your place of
business? A. It is on the corner of Fifth
street and First avenue north; confection-
ery and cigar stand on the northwest cor-
ner of Fifth street and First avenue north.
. The corner just back of the West
Hotel? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know her when you saw her,
Catherine Ging? A. Yes, sir.
Do you remember the night of Dec.
3, last, and were you out in front of your
place that evening? A. Yes, sir; about 7
o'clock, it might have been a little after 7.
Q. Did you see anything of a buggy
driving by that corner that night? A. I
did.
Q. You may describe the buggy and the
occupants, and give the circumstances of
what you saw at that corner. A. Well,
sir; the way I came to see it, I was look-
ing out of my window and there was a
load of wood driving by on Fifth street,
and just as it crossed the corner, I was
looking out of my window, and there was
a stick of wood dropped off the load, and
I went out to pick up that stick of wood,
and just as I stooped down to pick up that
stick I looked up in front of the hotel and
there was a lady driving down Fifth street
with a horse and buggy from there, and I
picked up the stick of wood and started
back to the house again, and when I was
about two-thirds of the way across the
road– -
Q. That is, two-thirds of the way across
First avenue north 2 A. Yes, sir; toward
my place; and the horse came up—I was
not noticing the horse—the horse came up
within two feet of me, the horse's head;
and I stepped back out of the road and
she drove along by, and as she spoke to
the horse she pulled up on the reins and
she says, “Whoa, whoa,” and then she
drove across the crossing.
Q. In what direction did she turn after
passing you, as you have described 2 A.
As she passed me she was pretty nearly
angling, crossing the road, and the horse
came two-thirds of the way across the
road. She was going up towards Sixth
street. As she drove up to me the horse
was trotting and she pulled him up, and I
stepped out of the way, and after the
horse got across the crossing, perhaps the
length of the horse and the buggy, the
horse started off into a sort of a little gal-
lop, I should think for two rods, and then
he went into a trot again.
Q. Could you see the rig as it went out -
First avenue north 2 A. Yes, sir; I put my
stick of wood down and I watched it until
it crossed the car track on Western avenue
and First. The horse was a-there was a
buggy with the horse—and the horse was
what I should call a dapple buckskin, dark
horse, and the buggy was dark; the run-
ning gear I noticed was a sort of reddish
color, and the top of the buggy was par- -
tially down. There was a lady in the bug-
y. -
Q. And who was the lady? A. Miss
Ging—I never had any introduction to her
but I have been told before it was her.
Q: Did you notice how she was dressed?
A. She had on a sailor's hat and a seal
skin sacque. I could not tell how she was
dressed, she had a buffalo robe over her.
Q. Had you ever seen the lady Catherine















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
413
Ging at that corner previous to that time?
A. Yes sir.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as irrelevant and
inmaterial.
The Court—It is a material matter unless
it is confined to Saturday or the 27th.
Mr. Hall–We laid the foundation, you
honor, previous to this we laid a founda-
tion for a meeting at this corner between
Mr. Hayward and Miss Ging—the ques-
tion was asked if they did not meet there
at a certain time.
The Court—Well, the objection is
tained.
Q. I will ask you if you recognize in
the court room anybody your ever recog-
nized before or saw at that corner?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as immaterial
and irrelevant, and attempting to prove
what the court has already ruled out.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. I will ask you whether—
My Erwin–I ask now, your honor, if
he has got any offer that it be made in
writing.
The Court—Well, yes, if he has got any-
thing there that has not been before the
jury.
Q. I will ask you if you did not, in the
month of November, I think it was the
10th of November, see the defendant or
the person you identify as the defendant,
and Catherine Ging enter a buggy at that
same corner?
Mr. Erwin–Objected to, as immaterial
and irrelevant and not a matter for im–
peachment.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. Mr. Ford, how long have you been
sick? A. Since the 9th of January.
Q. Well, when were you visited, how
long ago, to find out whether you saw
anybody turn around that corner? A. Well,
perhaps a week or 10 days ago, I can't tell.
Q. Well now, was the night light or
dark, the 3d of December? A. Well, sir,
about that time it was not very dark—the
moon was shining I think.
Q. Full moon? A. Well, I should think
it was, yes sir, probably the last quarter.
I should think. It was not very cold, I
don’t think that night—kind of a mildish
night.
Q. Well now, on that day you were
not, or were you, in good sound health? A.
Yes sir, I was healthy—I have not been in
very good health for the last four years.
Q. And whose team was it that the wood
dropped off? A. Well, I don't know who
it was.
Q. What kind of wood 2
Four-foot wood, yes sir.
Q. Where were you sitting when the
wood dropped off about? A. I was stand-
ing at the window.
Q. Did you hail the wagon? A. Oh, no,
no sir. The wagon got by the house quite
a piece.
Q. And you only saw the horse driven
by the woman that moment when it passed
you, and you walked then over to the
sidewalk from where the horse nearly ran
over you. And after you got over there
you put the stick of wood down and
watched the horse? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, is your eyesight pretty good?
A. Yes, sir, pretty good.
sus-
A. Maple.
Q. You noticed in that short time that
this was a lady you had seen before? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And you recognized her?
S11".
Q. Your attention was also directed to
her hat, she had on a sailor's hat? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And to her cloak. She had on a seal
skin sacque? A. Yes, sir
Q. Did you notice the robe in the bug-
gy? A. I noticed that there was a robe
over her.
Q. And that the horse was a dapple
buckskin; dark? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that the gearing was red? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And the buggy top black? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And half top? A. The top was laid
part way down.
Q. Well, you didn't jump any when the
horse came pretty nearly running over
you? A. No, sir, I just stepped to one
side.
Q. Were you frightened? A. Yes, sir, I
was, having a horse come so near me—I
was watching a horse on the other side of
the road—there was a drayman drove down
there.
Q. What made you stand there so long?
A. Well, I wanted to see whether the
horse was going to run with the lady, or
what he was going to do with her.
Q. And you watched it for two blocks?
A. Yes, sir; it crossed over the car tracks.
Q. After it got across the car tracks
where did it go? A. I could not say.
Q. Did it run ? A. No, she stopped the
horse probably a couple of rods from me–
a couple of rods from my place and the
horse went off on a trot.
Q. Well, when you saw that the horse
was trotting nicely what made you stand
and watch it so long? A. Well, I don’t
know. I always do stop and watch them
there whenever I see a horse and buggy
go along there that way; I always stop
there and look at them.
Q. Well, it must have been a pretty light
night, for you to see a horse and buggy
two blocks away. A. It was light enough
so that I could see; I could see the whole
length of the avenue if it was necessary–
could see clear up as far as the road was
straight to where it turned.
Q. You could see clear out to Hawthorne
Park? A. No, I don’t know where Haw-
thorne Park is. I could see as long as the
road went straight there. I spoke of it
the next morning after I read in the paper
about the murder. I could name over a
dozen or 15; it is the headquarters of ex-
pressmen there in that part of the city.
They were talking about it, and I made the
remark that I saw the same horse, that it
came very nearly running over me, and I
told them the circumstances, how I came
to be there.
Q. But you never told the mayor or any
of the officers when they were trying to
find out? A. No, sir, the mayor has never
been near me to find out. I told Mr. Ar-
nold, the police officer, while the examina-
tion was going on; he was standing there,
and I told him all about the circumstances
of my picking up the stick of wood and
about the lady coming very nearly running
Over me.
A. Yes,







OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
C. B. Diekens
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Mr. Dickens, you are a livery stable
keeper? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you have the West Hotel stables,
so called? A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Across the street from the rear end
of the West Hotel on Fifth street be-
tween Hennepin and First avenue north?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at your place of business
on the night of the evening of December
3, last? A. I was at home. I live at 18%
Fifth street north, opposite the West Hotel,
that is, opposite the west end of the West
Hotel.
Q. Did you know Catherine Ging? A.
Well, I cannot say that I did; I think I
had an introduction to her probably a
year before that time by Mrs. Murray,
I ain’t certain about it.
Q. Where were you about 7 o'clock and
8 or 10 minutes on the night of Dec. 3?
A. I was standing at my window; I live
upstairs over the building and I was stand-
ing at the west window. There are three
windows on the south side of the build-
ing opposite the West, and I was stand-
ing at the west window. I saw Miss Ging
in a buggy, or supposed it to be her. She
had on a sailor hat and a seal skin sacque
—I knew the horse.
You knew the horse—the Goosman
horse? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there a buggy hitched to the
horse? A. Yes, sir; and a lady was in the
buggy.
Q. Just describe what you saw. A. As I
say, I was at the west window and look-
ing towards the West Hotel. I can see
clear out to Hennepin. I saw the lady in
the buggy and I think young Goosman
was doing something about the buggy,
fixing the weight in or something. She
then drove by my place, I looked down and
saw her. When she passed my window
where I was standing, some 20 or 30 feet
by, the horse started off on a light trot–
I just looked across that way; I can see
to the ball park; and I saw her going
down that street on a slow trot—I saw
an old man–I found out since it was old
man Ford, and he had a stick of wood
in his hand that time. The horse started
up and stopped quite short. I thought
there was going to be a collision with a
team coming from the south. There was
a team coming from the south, going
north up First avenue, I call it, and I
stopped to see the collision; this lady was
angling across the street like, and when
she stopped on account of the old man,
as I supposed, with the stick of wood in
his hands, this team came down and
turned on Fifth street, with a truck wagon
and a gray horse.
Q. Turned in what direction? A. Came
down from towards Sixth and turned on
Fifth, on my side. She then started up
on a trot—I could see her quite well–
well, I do not know how far I can see—
Major Camp has a house there, and it
is probably 40 or 50 feet back on the lot,
and I can see across this place, I could
see her going along up First avenue north
towards Sixth street.
Q. In what direction did the rig turn
when it reached the corner of First ave-
nue north and Fifth street, did it turn to
the right or to the left? A. It turned to
the left and went up towards Sixth street.
Q. It went down Fifth street to First
avenue north and turned and went up
First avenue north in the direction of
Sixth street? A. Yes, sir; that is where I
say I could see her going, across that lot.
Q. Did that rig turn at any time and go
down toward Fourth street, on First ave-
nue north 2 A. Not that I saw.
Q. Was the rig constantly in your vision
from the time it left the West Hotel until
it got to First avenue north and turned
towards Sixth 2 A. Yes, sir; that is, until
she got behind that house. -
Q. She had turned around on First ave-
nue when you saw her? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was going by the Camp house
towards Sixth street? A. Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Where is your house located? A. 18%
Fifth street north. I live overhead there;
my building. My sitting room has three
windows opposite the west end of the hotel,
and I can see into the billiard hall of the
hotel across the street. It fronts the West
Hotel, towards the west.
Q. Your cane is not loaded, it won't go
off 2 (The witness was here pointing his
cane at the counsel.) A. No, sir; it is not
loaded, it won’t go off; you need not be
afraid of it.
Q. Were you looking out at the time Miss
Ging was getting into the buggy? A. I saw
her sitting in the buggy, and a young man
was fixing the robe about her, or some-
thing. This was a little after 7.
Q. Was there a good moon? A: Well, it
was light enough to see.
Q. Was the gas lit? A. The electric
light hanging under the West Hotel there
was lit.
Q. Do you know whether any other lights
in that locality were lit? A. I don’t think
there Was. -
Q. Have you made any other inquiries
about it? A. No, sir.
Q. You say you saw her drive up towards
First avenue north and you saw her turn-
ing First avenue north and going up to-
wards Sixth street? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the electric light lit on Fifth
street and First avenue north 2 A. I don’t
think there was any electric light there;
there was a gas light there. My impression
is the baseball park was all lit up by elec-
tric lights that evening. I think so.
Q. Have you made any inquiries about
it? A. I have talked about it, yes.
Q. Who have you inquired of, ascertain-
ing that fact? A. I have been talking to
two or three parties about it.
Q. Who did you ask about it? A. I don't
know but what I asked Mr. Barnes.
Q. Did you ask Mr. Barnes whether the
lights in the ball park were burning that
night or not? A. I think I did.
Q. What was your object? A. Well, we
just got to talking about the case.
Q. When did you first talk with anybody
about what you saw that night? A. Why,
the next day. I think the first man I told
was Mayor Eustis, but I am not certain
about that.
Q. Did you tell Mayor Eustis the next
day that you saw Miss Ging get into that
carriage? A. No, sir; and I do not say so
now.
Q. Did you tell him that you saw the car-
riage drive to First avenue north and turn
up towards Sixth street? A. Yes, sir.






















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
415
Q. Did you tell Louis Larramie the same
thing? A. Yes, sir.
Did you tell him that you saw Goos-
man's rig with Miss Ging in it drive from
the West Hotel up Fifth street to First
avenue north, and turn and go up First
avenue north towards Sixth street? A.
Yes, sir; I told him it was Mr. Goosman’s
rig, and that I supposed the lady in it was
Miss Ging.
Q. And that the carriage went as I have
indicated? A. Yes, sir; up First avenue
towards Sixth street.
Q. Well, up Fifth street to First avenue,
and up First avenue to Sixth street? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Who else did you tell about it? A. I
suppose everybody that I saw.
Q. You have been very careful to find
out about it? A. No, sir, I have not; I
never solicited coming here; I did not want
to come here and testify.
Q. You talked with every one you got a
chance to? A. Oh, I told everybody that
I saw driving by.
Q. And you say you had no object in
going to Mr. Barnes and asking him if his
lights were burning there that evening?
A. No, sir.
Q. Finding out for sure whether his
lights were burning? A. I didn't say sure
-I went in there to inquire there about
other business, and we commenced talking
about the lights.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Barnes that you
expected to be a witness in the case? A.
No, sir; I never did.
Q. Didn't you say to him at the time you
made inquiry about the lights; didn't you
tell him you expected to be a witness in
the case? A: I wouldn't say I didn't.
Q. Then you told him you expected to
be a witness in the case at the same time
you talked to him about these electric
lights? A. Possibly.
Q. Well, wasn’t that getting ready to be
a witness? A. No, sir; if I did, I would
say the lights were burning.
Q. Well, you would not want to say they
were without they were? A. No, sir; and
I would not want to say it on anybody
else's say so, either; but my impression is
they were lit, though. -
Q. You noticed the hat? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You noticed the sealskin sacque? A.
Yes, I noticed it was a sealskin sacque.
Q. You could tell from your window at 7
o'clock at night whether it was a sealskin
sacque or a black cloth sacque? A. Yes,
sir; I could; pretty light.
Q. Could you tell a sealskin sacque from
a black cloth sacque that distance and at
that time of night? A. I think I could
from there; I say it was light enough to
see.
Q. There is only one light around there?
A. Yes, but it is a pretty large one.
Q. Did you inquire of any other person
in regard to those lights? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you inquired of any person
about the lights on First avenue north, in-
dependent of those coming from the base-
ball grounds? A. I have not.
(Court here took a recess until
o'clock, March 2, 1895.
9:30
MORNING SESSION, MARCH 2.
Thomas O’Donnell
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall. -
Q. What is your business? A. I am an
employe of the Northern Pacific Express
Company, at No. 11 Fifth street south, be-
tween Hennepin and Nicollet avenues.
Q. What time did you leave your office
Dec. 32 A. I think between five and ten
minutes past 7; I could not state the exact
minute.
Q. When you left your office in what
direction did you go? A. I went north,
or west, rather, up Fifth street past the
West Hotel. As I crossed Hennepin ave-
nue I saw a top buggy and horse standing
just over the Hennepin avenue crossing
alongside the West Hotel. The horse's
head pointed towards First avenue north.
As I got opposite the buggy the man step-
ped out from the window of the West.
Hotel drug store and stepped over towards
the carriage. I turned my head and saw
the lady coming behind him, came, I sup-
pose, across Hennepin avenue. She asked
the man how long he had been there. He
said something about an hour; he could not
state the exact portion of the hour, wheth-
er half or quarter or what part. She step-
ped into the buggy and he stepped up after
her. I don’t know whether he got in or
not; and I kept on walking, and it passed
me before I got 20 or 30 feet.
Q. That is, the rig passed you? A. Yes,
Slr.
Q. Now as the rig proceeded up Fifth
street towards First avenue did you notice
in what direction it turned 2 A. Yes, it
turned on First avenue north and went
towards. Sixth street.
Q. And there it passed out of your sight?
A. Yes, sir.
The Court—What kind of a rig was it.
Mr. Hall–Did you know the person who
was in the buggy; did you recognize her
as any one you had seen before? A. No,
Slr.
The Court—What kind of a rig was it;
what kind of a horse? A. All I know was
it was a horse and top buggy; I could
not tell you anything about the color of
the horse. I did not notice it.
Mr. Hall–Did you notice whether there
was more than one person in the buggy as
it turned the corner? A. No, sir, I could
not tell.
Q. Did you notice how the lady was at-
tired? A. Yes, sir; she wore a dark cloak;
I could not tell what the material was
made up, whether plush or seal skin, but
some dark material of that kind, and a
dark skirt; what the color was I could
not say.
Q. Did you notice anything about the
hat? A. It was a medium sized hat, not
very large. That is all the description I
could give of it.
Mr. Hall–That is all.
Mr. Smith—I move to have this witness”
testimony stricken from the record as not
connected with Miss Ging or the defendant
in this case.
The Court—Motion denied.
Mr. Smith–Exception.
F. A. Huebner
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Where were you in the vicinity of
7 o’clock on the evening of Dec. 3, 1894? A.



416
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
I was in the vicinity of First avenue north
and Eifth street.
Q. Can you give the exact time, as near
as you can, that you were at that point?
A. I will have to go into a little detail
if I do that. I left the store some time be-
tween half past 6 and a quarter to 7. I
locked up, and I had occasion to go up to
Turner's that evening on a little business,
but when I got there they were closed;
and I walked up the street to Fifth, ex-
pecting to turn there.
Q. Up First avenue north to Fifth street?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you got to the corner of First
avenue north and Fifth street which way
did you turn? A. Turned toward Hen-
nepin, on the east side.
Q. Passing along at that point did you
see any buggy, horse and buggy, near the
West Hotel at that time? A. I had not
got very far from the corner of First
ayenue north and Fifth street—I guess it
was about midway between the corner and
the livery stable on this side of the street,
I noticed a gentleman cross over the street.
the other side.
Q. Crossing from the side you were on?
A. From the livery stable, yes sir; but
before he got across the street, the buggy
that was on the other side—I noticed there
was a lady in it—it started up, and drove
towards First avenue north.
Q. Can you describe the horse and buggy
and lady that you then saw starting up
from the West Hotel? A. It would be in-
posible, because I just noticed the buck-
skin color— kind of dun colored—horse
Q. Was there any other occupant in the
buggy with the lady? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you observe the direction taken
by the horse and the rigº A. Something
called my attention and I turned and
looked down toward the track, toward Fifth
street, and that time I saw a lady turn the
corner there at First avenue north, and
drive up towards Sixth street, and she rode
on a pretty good canter.
Q. As you had come along First avenue
north towards Fifth street had you passed
any person, and on which side of First
avenue north were you, south or north
side? A. I was on the south side.
Q. Did you pass any person on First av-
enue north between Fourth and Fifth
street? A. No, sir.
Mr. Hall–Mr. Grindall, will
up 2
(Mr. Grindall here stood up.)
Q. Did you see anything of a man an-
swering to that description on First avenue
north as you passed along at that point?
A.. I did not. That is all I know about the
Case.
you stand
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. You say you were up First avenue
north 2 A. Yes, I struck First avenue
north at the intersection of Third street
and First avenue north.
Q. Whom did you pass between Third
street and Fourth street on First avenue
north? A. I might possibly have passed
various persons. I did not notice every-
body that I passed. I may have passed
two.
Q. How many people did you meet be-
tween Hennepin avenue and First avenue
north º A. Quite a number.
where I first seen the rig;
Q. Can you swear positively looking
back that you met no one and passed no
one on First avenue north between Fourth
and Fifth street? A. I would not swear to
it because I paid no attention to whom I
passed or met.
Q. Might it not have been possible at
that time of night for a man to have
passed along there and you not recall him?
A. Certainly. -
A. Did you make any minute of what
time it was you passed along there? A. I.
could not give you the exact time. When I
say half-past 6 to a quarter to 7 it may be
any time between that.
Q. You say you started from the store
from half-past to a quarter to 7, that
would have landed you on the extremes a
quarter to 7 to 7 o'clock at the West Hotel,
taking 15 minutes to walk?
(No response.)
Q. Where was that horse and buggy
that you speak of, where did you first see
it? A. The horse and buggy when I first
saw it had started up and coming this
way, driving towards First avenue north
and was just at this side of the West
Hotel, that is, on the side towards First
avenue north.
Q. And was coming along towards First
avenue north 2 A. Yes.
Q. Where were you when you met the
rig; had you passed the livery stable? A.
No, sir; I had not passed the livery stable.
Q. Were you alone at that time? A.
Yes, I was alone. When I passed the rig
I had not got to the livery stable. -
Q. When you first saw the rig the rig
was down between the West Hotel and
Hennepin avenue? A. No, sir; that is
it was this
side; I had not seen the rig until it start-
ed to drive up, and then it was just the
other side, going towards First avenue
north.
Q. You did not know Miss Ging? A.
No, sir.
Q. When did you first think of this af-
ter that time? A. I thought of it right
away afterwards.
Q. Did you tell anyone of it? A. Yes,
sir. I spoke of it to parties visiting here
Christmas.
Q. When were you
This morning.
Q. When did you speak to anyone last
about it before the subpoena was served
upon you? A. There were two or three
boys and men in my place of business
there two or three days ago, that I spoke
to them about it, and I told them I.
thought it was a very queer affair. They
were men employed by the express com-
pany to pick up their business; they have
various places of business.
Q. Do you know Ebert? A. I know him
by sight.
Q. Did you talk to him
No, sir.
Q. Do you know
No, sir.
Q. A small, smooth faced fellow? A. I.
may know him and not know his name. I
know a good many people that I have a
casual acquaintance with that I could not
recall their names and don’t know their
nannes.
Q. You are not able to give any further
description of the horse and rig, any fur-
ther than you have; any more than that
subpoenaed? A.
about it? A.
young Hazeltine? A.





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. - 417
the woman was dressed in black? A. I.
did not notice the dress at all.
Q. In accordance to the best of your
opinion, it was from a quarter of 7 to 7
o'clock? A. It was very close in the
neighborhood of 7 o'clock.
Q. Now, I will ask the witness if you
have any further information than that
which you stated to me, that you left your
place of business from half past 6 to a
quarter to 7, and that you believed it took
you 15 minutes to go from your place of
business to the West Hotel; did you have
any further information upon which you
fix the time that you arrived at the West
Hotel than that, and if so, state? A. Yes,
sir, I believe I can. When I get through
with my work there I have to go three-
quarters of an hour after the other men
get out, and I stepped out into the kitch-
en that evening, and I had a cup of coffee
before I went up to Turner's where I was
intending to go, and to my recollection as
well as I know now, I think it was some-
where near 7 o'clock by the time I got to
the corner; I would not say positively
whether it was five or ten minutes after;
I did not look at my time.
Mr. Hall–The facts you testified to you
did communicate to the county attorney by
letter?
Q. That communication you made to of—
ficials? A. That is the only communica-
tion I made to officials. -
Q. Besides that, you spoke to me for a
minute this morning, as I asked you to
come here as a witness A. Yes, sir.
Harry S. Busha
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q: What is your business? A. Express-
man, on Fourth and Hennepin.
Q: What time did you start for your
home on the night of Dec. 3? A. Some-
where near 7 o'clock; I could not state
exactly whether a few minutes to 7 or a
few minutes past 7. I started for home
from the Union depot. I went up Henne-
pin. My horse started to turn on Fifth
street, and got partly turned and I hawed
him out on the asphalt walk, and went to
Sixth and then let him down at First ave-
Iºlule.
Q. As you crossed Sixth street and First
avenue north, did anything occur? A.
Right at the corner of First avenue north
and Sixth street, as I was turning, a rig
came along and very near came into me; I
hawed my horse up a little and let the rig
go by.
Q. Can you describe the rigº A. A top
buggy is all I can say; a clay-bank horse,
or buckskin, whatever you call it.
Q. Did you notice who the occupants
were in the rigº A.. I could not state
anything more than it was my impression
there was a lady in the rig. I could not
state whether any more were in the rig or
not. There was a lady in the rig, and I
should have said something to her if I had
thought there had not been anyone else in
the rig
Q. At what rate was the rig traveling?
A. Just a slow trot.
Q. As you were turning, the rig came
near running into you? A. I was quar-
tered, turning in there; she was on my side
of the street, on the left-hand side; if she
had been on the other side, there would
have been no occasion to come together.
A. Yes. -
Edwin Mathes
Sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are the husband of the lady who
was on the stand yesterday afternoon? A.
I am.
Q. You were taking your supper at No.
6. Thirteenth street south on the night of
Dec. 32 A. I was,
Q. You went to the dining room at what
hour with your wife? A. About a quarter
to 7.
Q. Now, do you know at what time Mr.
Hayward left the room? A. Only as com-
pared with the time that I left, in a sort of
a comparative way. He left before I left.
Q. Is there any circumstance by which
you can recall the time at which Mr. Hay-
ward was at the table, a short or long
time? A. Yes. The fact that he ate very
little and left in a precipitate manner.
Q. I will ask you if that fact was so
unusual as to attract your attention? A.
It was.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. How long do you think Harry was in
the dining room, Mr. Mathes? A. Be-
tween 5 and 10 minutes.
Q. You say that you got to the dining
room when 2 A. About a quarter to 7.
Q. You fix the time you got in the din-
ing room that night only by your general
memory of the time that you ordinarily
got there? A. I have a little more than
that, in that I fix the time by my getting
home, the general amount of time that it
takes me to change my clothes.
Q. This is the result of calculation, look-
ing back and calculating, rather than any
memory of the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Of course it is liable to mistake; it is
a calculation and not memory? A. It is
calculation and not memory as referred to
time.
Q. Generally you reached home about
6:25 or 6:30? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, then, you work in an elevator
and are covered with dust and flour, that
is usual in that kind of business, were you
not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You would go in the house and bathe
and dress and change your clothes before
you would go in the dining room? A. Yes.
Q. Generally reached the dining room, if
you hod no delays, about 6:50? A. About
that time.
Q. It would take 25 minutes to do that
work? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Sometimes your wife was not ready,
was probably speaking to somebody else,
some little turn, and you would not get to
the dining room until 7 o'clock or 7:10? A.
On occasions, yes, sir.
Mr. Hall—You were not delayed that
evening? A. No, sir; I was not delayed;
I have other means of determining that.
Q. You were not delayed that evening;
you got to supper promptly 2 A. I did.
- D. A. McArthur
was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
In what business are you now en-
gaged? A. In the newspaper business.
Q. Do you know Harry T. Hayward, the
defendant? A. Yes, I do.
Q. How long have you known him? A.
About seven or eight years.
Q: What time did you leave your ºusi-
ness on the evening of Dec. 3? A. I left
the office about half past 5, I should judge.




418 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Q. What car line do you take to reach
your home? A. I take Lake Harriet or
Thirty-first street.
Q. At what point did you take the car
for home that evening? A. Corner of
Fifth and Hennepin.
Q. Did you wait at any time for the car
there? A. I remember I missed the
5:45 car, at least it gets up there about 14
minutes of 6; it leaves down at Third street
at a quarter even; and I missed that car.
It was up at the switch on Sixth street. I
waited for the other.
Q. At which corner of the intersection of
Fifth street and Hennepin avenue did you
stand waiting for the car? A. I stood at
the stone steps that enters in the drug
store of the West Hotel building.
Q. As you stood there waiting, did you
see anything of the defendant, Harry T.
Hayward. A. I saw Harry and another
young man coming up Hennepin avenue,
the same side of the street, while I was
waiting there.
Q. You may describe his manner, what
you saw him doing, and where going.
Objected to as immaterial, irrelevant and
not impeachment.
The Court—This is in reference to the
fact, as I understand, of the time when
Harry and Mr. Waterman went up there?
Mr. Erwin–That is not a matter in issue
at all.
The Court—There are a good many mat-
ters not in issue, but this is a fact in refer-
ence to the time.
Objection overruled.
Mr. Erwin–Exception noted.
The Witness—I was looking down the
street to see if my car was coming, and I
saw Harry and this young man coming up.
I saw him and this young man coming up,
as I was looking down for my car I saw
them coming up the avenue. They seemed
to be, Harry seemed to be very much–
Objected to.
Q. What you saw and not what he
seemed to be? A. They went past me as I
stood there.
Q: What was Harry doing or saying as
he passed you? A. He was talking to this
young man very earnestly.
Q. What was his manner, if anything, as
he passed you?
Objected to.
Sustained.
Q. How far did you see them, did you
observe them passing you? A. Oh, prob-
ably; oh, I think about 25 or 30 feet. They
came up the avenue.
Q. They passed you and went on Henne-
pin and you did not observe how far they
went? A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. What was it that gave prominence to
this otherwise casual circumstance, in your
memory, was it the murder afterwards? A.
Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. Hall–Was there anything at the time
that fixed the circumstance independent of
what occurred afterwards, in your mind?
A. Yes, that evening when I saw Harry
come up I did not know Harry gambled any
until I saw the article in the paper.
Mr. Erwin–Objected to as improper, im-
material and irrelevant.
The Court—If there was anything to call
his attention to it.
Mr. Hall–Was there anything occurred to
you that fixed the circumstance in your
mind other than the fact of the homicide
and Mr. Hayward's connection with it be-
ing announced the following day?
The Court—If there was anything that oc-
curred at that time that called your atten-
tion to it at the time it occurred.
The Witness—Only this matter in regard
to Harry being a gambler; that I did not
know previous to that; that is, I saw it in
the paper.
Adry Hayward
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. Mr. Hayward, three notes, the $500
note and the $2,000 note introduced in evi-
dence here, did you ever see those notes
prior to the 24th of November? A. I saw
them as he was making them out; that is
the only time I ever saw them.
Q. Were these notes ever shown you ex-
ecuted and signed as they are now, at any
time prior to the 24th of November? A.
No.
Q. Or were they in any safe drawer to
which you had access? A. No, sir.
ROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q. They might have been in some drawer
that you didn’t have access to? A. Yes,
sir. The only drawer I had access to was
the wooden drawer of my own.
Q. And they were not there? A. No,
S11”.
Louise Ireland
Was recalled and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You know whether or not your aunt,
Catherine Ging, went to St. Paul or was in
St. Paul at any time during Thanksgiving
week of last year, '942 A. No, she was not.
Q. On Wednesday of Thanksgiving week
do you know where she was? A. Well, she
was in and out of the shop all day long.
Q. Do you remember the day she worked
for Mrs. Hawkins? A. Yes, sir, that was
Tuesday afternoon.
Q. Do you remember where she was on
Wednesday? A. Well, she was back and
forth in the store, in and out.
Q. Was there any particular or pressing
business on that day that kept her close at
her place of business? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any opportunity, or was
she gone from her place of business on
Wednesday at any time long enough to
have been in St. Paul and returned 2
Mr. Erwin–Well, now, I object to that
as leading and calling for a conclusion.
Q. Well, I ask if she was in St. Paul on
that day? A. No, she was not away to St.
Paul that day.
Q. Do you know when last preceding
Thanksgiving your aunt had been to St.
Paul? A. Well, she was down at St. Paul
—I could not swear it was not the week
preceding the week of Thanksgiving, but I
really don’t think it was; I think it was
the week preceding that.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Where was she on Saturday preceding
Thanksgiving week?
Mr. Hall–Is that for the purpose of test-
ing her recollection, or for the purpose of
laying further foundation?
Mr. Smith–No, sir, for the purpose of
testing her recollection.
Mr. Hall—Well, I object to that as irrele-
vant and immaterial. She has not attempt-
ted to fix where she was on Saturday.


















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
419
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Q. Answer? A. Well, she was in and
out of the shop. She was at home in the
evening. -
Q. Did she leave the city in the evening?
The Court–Which Saturday was that?
Mr. Smith—The Saturday in mediately
preceding Thanksgiving week.
The Witness—No, sir; I don’t think she
was.
Q. Do you remember particularly what
she was doing on that day? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember what she was doing
on Friday immediately preceding Thanks-
giving week? A. No, sir, I cannot go back
into that week. I remneber all of Thanks-
giving week distinctly.
Q. How is it—how does it happen you
can remember all the days of Thanks-
giving week and you can't get back any
further? A. Well, I can go back to Sun-
day before, but back of that I can’t go.
Q. You can’t tell where she was on
Thursday, Friday or Saturday of the pre-
ceding week? A. Well, she was at the
shop.
Q. What were your duties at the shop?
A.. I was there to oversee. -
Q. You don’t remember of her being in
St. Paul Thanksgiving week? A. No, sir.
I know she was not in St. Paul.
Q. Did she always tell you every time
she went out? A. Well, no, not every sin-
gle time.
Q. Well, when she was going out for a
couple of hours? A. No, sir.
Q. Did she always tell you where she
was going evenings? A. She did as a
rule; if she didn't tell me before she went
she did afterwards.
Q. Did she ever tell you about this man
with the gray mustache and chin whiskers?
A. No, sir.
Q. Never heard about him? A. No, sir.
Q. You never saw him—he never called
at the shop? A. Oh, he might have called
—might have been out in the other room,
or something, but I never saw him.
Q. Did she ever tell you about her re-
ceiving notes from gentlemen? A. Why,
no, sir; no particular gentleman. If a let-
ter or note came and I made any particu-
lar inquiry, why, she always told me.
George W. Jenks
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Hall.
Q. You are engaged in what business?
A. Banker and broker, in the Minnesota.
Loan and Trust Company’s building, in this
city.
Q. And where is your home? A. 2120
Fremont avenue south; in the region
known as the Lake of the Isles, or over
in the vicinity of the Lake of the Isles.
It is two blocks west of Hennepin avenue,
near Twenty-second street.
Q. What line of cars do you take in
going to your home and in coming to the
city? A. Usually the Lake Harriet.
Q. Where were you, on the evening of
Dec. 3, in the vicinity of 7 o'clock? A.
At home.
Q. At what time did you leave your
home? A. Five minutes past 7–five or six
minutes past 7.
Q. Had you any engagement , anything
that called your attention to the time, the
passing time? A. Yes, sir.
Q: What was that? A. I was to attend
the Retail Merchants' banquet at the Com-
mercial club at 7:30. Yes, sir; I wanted
five minutes before the meeting to meet
some personal friends.
Q. Leaving your house, then, about five
minutes past 7 o'clock, you took what car
line—what street car? A. As I came out
on my porch I missed the car, the five
minutes past 7 car was just passing; so I
walked down to the junction, where I
might have a chance of catching one of
three lines, at Lowry Hill—the Lyndale,
Kenwood and Harriet. My next car, reg-
ular car, was the 20 minutes car–20 minutes
between.
Q. As you came down on the car, were
you sitting on the inside of the car, or
were you on the outside of the car? A. I
was standing in the vestibule, on the rear
platform.
Q. Do you recollect anything unusual
happening on that trip down on the car,
from where you got on down to your point
of destination, which would be the inter-
section of Fourth street and Hennepin
avenue? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Anything happen near or about the
vicinity of Central Park? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was it? A. When we reached
a point one block this side of Kenwood
boulevard–
Q. Will you indicate on the map—this is
a continuation of Harmon place– A. (In-
dicating on map.) It is a little street—it is
a continuation of Harmon place—I don’t
know the name of it.
Q. It is this? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether there is a
vacant lot or block there? A. Yes, sir;
it is a little vacant lot in there— a vacant
lot.
Q. That is the block lying north of the
Kenwood boulevard? A. Yes, sir, right
next to Hennepin.
Q. Using that pointer you may describe
what you saw there and what there oc-
curred.
Mr. Erwin–Objected
not knowing what it is.
The Court—The objection is overruled.
Mr. Erwin. Exception.
A. On this corner there is a sign board,
or a bill board, 40 or 50 feet long. As we
reached this point a man suddenly appeared
at this end of the bill board and he came
On the sidewalk and ran down the side-
walk, following the car. Thinking he want-
ed to catch the car I touched the conductor,
who was standing next to me; he reached
for the bell and brought the car almost
to a standstill; when the car stopped or
slackened up the man stopped running. I
noticed the man was not after the car,
and the conductor pulled the bell cord and
he went on. We halted the car for the man
at this corner. (Indicating.)
Q. How near to the car had the man
whom you saw at first running come before
the car again started up on its way. A.
When the conductor pulled the bell cord to
go on the man was somewheres in this
street, having run 10 or 15 yards, the length
of that—perhaps 10 or 15 or perhaps 20
yards the length of the bill board, and
had gotten in the street itself.
Q. As the car proceeded down Hennepin
did you observe the direction of the man,
what direction he kept? A. He followed
the car and by the time we had turned this
corner he had passed in behind these large
trees in front of a brick block, this tene-
to as immaterial,




OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
ent—there is four or five tenements in
there.
Q. Following up Hennepin avenue? A
Yes, sir.
Q: Are you able to identify the man
whom you saw? A. I believe so, yes, sir.
Who was it? A. Harry Hayward.
Mr. Hall–Take the witness.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Erwin.
Q: Who was the conductor on that car?
A.. I don’t know, sir.
Q. Give me the name of the person that
...”.” the car with you? A. I could not
O it.
Q. Have you tried to inquire who was on
the car with you? A. No, sir; I reported it
to the officer.
Q. The vestibule is glassed in 2 A. Yes,
silº.
Q. So you are inside of a glass house?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Inside of a glass house and swinging
along at the rate of an electric Car, you
noticed out behind you a man running on
the sidewalk? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You saw him running the length of
that bill board? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far was he behind your car? A.
Oh, about the same distance, the length of
the bill board, 20 or 25 yards.
Q. Seventy-five feet out in the night and
removed from you—Hennepin avenue is 100
feet wide, or is it 125 feet wide—how wide
is it? A. About 100 feet, I think it is nar-
row there.
Q.
you and the conductor? A. Not any One.
Q. Then there was room for you to stand
with your back to the rear in the vesti-
bule? A. Stand any way,
Q. You could not see without looking
through the glass? A. No, sir.
Q. And what you saw you saw through
a glass, and saw through a glass out into
the night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The man never got any nearer to you
than you have described, this distance? A.
A very few feet, if any. The car was going
there about at the rate of a slow walk, a
common walk, slacking down for the turn
just above that, and whether he gained on
the car when he was running or not, I don’t
know; it would be a difference of a Very
few feet.
Q. How long have you known Harry
Hayward? A. I don't know him.
Q. Then you had never seen him before
that night? A. Not to know him, no, sir.
Q How long have you known Adry Hay-
ward? A: I don't know him except by
sight.
Q: How long have you known him by
sight? A. Oh, six months or a year or SO,
perhaps longer; I don't know him at all to
speak to him.
Q. How could you tell these two boys
apart that distance and through that glass
and through that night? A. The peculiar
way in which the man ran; he has a very
peculiar gait, different from any man I ever
saw.
Q. You had never seen him run before?
A. No; I have since.
Q. When you saw him run since, where
was it? A. From the jail over here—be-
tween here and the jail
Q: Who was with him? A. The jailors,
I presume, a man on each side of him. It
was one of the first days of the trial, when
Who else was on the vestibule besides
one of the jurors was being examined—
when they were securing the jury. I took
a position where I could see him as I did
that night. I was trying to prove that I
was mistaken. And I only wish you could
convince me that I was; I would like to be
convinced that I was mistaken.
Q. “A man convinced against his will is
of the same opinion still.” A. It is not
against my will, however. I really hope
you can convince me.
Q. Now, you knew Adry by sight, did
you, before that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. So you got around in front of Harry
when he was coming with handcuffs on
him—he was handcuffed 2 A. I didn’t see
the handcuffs, but I suppose he must have
been; he held his hands down this way (in-
dicating).
Q. And he had a peculiar gait as he
hurried along between the officers and this
motley file of citizens? A. There wasn’t
any file at that time; there was a few peo-
ple gathered on this corner. -
Q. You saw a peculiarity in his gait
when he was in this condition? A. Yes,
slı”. -
Q. And he had that same peculiarity in
his gait when you saw him on the night
of the homicide? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that is the way you recognized
him 2 A. One of the ways.
Q. Now, Mr. Jenks, when did you first
report to anybody on earth that you saw
Harry Hayward that night? How long
after the trial began 2 A. It might be two
or three Weeks.
Q. To whom did you report it? A. I
mentioned it to a neighbor in my own
family—in my own home.
Q. Who, connected with the prosecution
or with the public press, or with the state's
authority, did you first report to? A. This
neighbor reported it to—
Q. I asked you when you first reported
it. Now, you have a nice way fixed up to
slide this in here.
Mr. Hall–I object to that—and I object
to him treating the witness in such a man-
ner.
The Witness—Well, I will answer him
the same way if he wants me to.
The Court—Well, you cannot answer in
the same way, and he canot ask you in
that manner. You must treat the witness
with respect, and he must treat you with
respect.
Mr. Erwin–Well, I am going to postpone
my respect until I find out—
The Witness—I have not postponed mine;
I haven’t any.
The Court—You want to keep cool, Mr.
Jenks, and answer the questions he asks
you. He must put proper questions and
you must answer them properly. -
The Witness—I simply ask the protection
of the court that he will not abuse and in-
sult me.
The Court—Well, proceed.
Q. If you were anxious to be corrected
in any mistakes you would seek criticism
and not despise it? A: I am willing to be
criticised, but not abused or insulted. -
Q. Who did you first report to about this
matter? A. Detective Hoy called on me at
my office concerning it. That was the first
time I ever spoke to him. I never had any
conversation with him before. -
Q. And after talking with Detective Hoy,
who did you next report to? A: The cº-
ty attorney. That was during the time they
-




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
were selecting the jury. If I remember cor-
rectly, two or three only had been selected
at that time.
Q. And after that time you located your-
self here so you could see Harry Hayward
run? A: I did; yes sir, at that time.
Q. And after you had seen his run you
became convinced he must be the man, in
your mind? A. Yes, sir.
Q. There is a posibility of your being
mistaken , too? A. Certainly, a possibility,
but not a probability.
Q. And then, when you testify that that
was Harry Hayward you mean to testify
from a reflected memory, a calculating
memory, made up and arrived at at a time
subsequent to the car passing a man on the
avenue that night?
Mr. Hall–Objected to as being double
and argumentative. If you divide the ques-
tion I will have no objection. -
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. It is possible that that might have
been Adry Hayward, is it not? A. No, sir.
Q. Why? A. Considerable difference in
their height. I know there is a marked
difference.
Q. You were above the man—you were
on the car in the center of the street where
the street is graded , nearly on the center—
you were above the man, you were on the
car and the car is above the track, and the
track is level with the sidewalk at least–
your vision would be backwards and down-
wards and to the right, and there is no
comparison betwixt your vision of height—
how can you testify to the difference be-
tween Harry Hayward's height and Adry's
height? A. I absolutely say I can tell the
difference between your height and his;
but I cannot tell by What mental process
I arrive at it. -
Q. Were you looking when you saw him.
A. Both.
Q. Well, if you were looking, where were
you looking? A. Looking out in front of
me, to the rear and side.
Q. Did you read the testimony of a half
dozen witnesses who testified to seeing
Harry Hayward in the dining room of the
boarding house when you say you saw him
running out there? A. I have not read
any such thing.
Q. If you should hear four or five hunnan
being swear before God that they saw him
in the dining room of the Ozark at the same
time you saw him running up there, would
that shake your belief? A. It would not.
Mr. Hall–Objected to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and innmaterial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Now, hadn’t you known Harry before
that time? A. No, sir.
Q. Had you business dealings with Adry
before that time? A. No sir, I never.
Q. Did you ever see Harry oefore? A. I
don’t know that I ever did.
Q. You recollect last spring of Harry
Hayward coming into your office and ask-
ing you the price of bank stock and, wished
to talk about the sale of real estate? A.
No, sir, I don’t remember.
Q. Where have you known Adry A.. I
never have known him. Some one pointed
him out to me when he went past the win-
dow one day.
Q. When did you first see Harry Hay-
ward after this occurrence, after the homi-
cide? A. At the time I mentioned, when
he was being brought over from the jail.
421.
Q. Then, as I understand it, you never
saw him unless you saw him when he was
running until you saw him when he was
brought over from the jail? A. That is
right. - - - -
Q. I noticed when you Were testifying
and asked if you knew the man Yº! said
yes; and when you Were asked Who it. was
you did not use the words, “I think t Was
Harry Hayward, to the best of ºny belieſ.
it was Harry Hayward,” but You said,
“Harry Hayward,” with a smile? A. No,
sir. -
Q. You had an are smile as you liſted
up your head toward Harry Hayward”
Mr. Hall That is objected to as a rºll-
mentative. -
The Court—The objection is sustained,
and it is an insult to the witness. -
Mr. Erwin–Well, it is necessary to as:
these questions, your honor. -
The Court–Well, you want to treat the
witness fairly, and ask him proper (1***
tions. -
Mr. Erwin–I will, your honor.
Q: Why did you not, when You Were
asked if you knew this man, put in the º
dinary humane and consistent reservation
that you thought it was Harry Hayward.
or to the best of your impression it was
Harry Hayward?
Mr. Hall–That is objected to:
The court. It is objectionable becausº
you are misconstruing his answer:
The Witness—Yes, sir, decidedly.
The Court—Yes, decidedly. -
Mr. Erwin–I will take an exception to
the court's ruling. -
Mr. Hall—That is objected to as improper
cross-examination, calling for a conclusion,
and as argumentative, and as varying the
witness' testimony and manner.
Q. Have you seriously considered the
consequences of your testimony if it should
be believed by the jury? -
Mr. Hall–Objcted to as incompetent, ir-
relevant and immaterial. - -
The Court—The objection is sustained.
r. Erwin–Exception.
. When did you first tell the state that
you thought it was Harry Hayward-the
county attorney? A: After I saw him
coming over from the jail.
Mr. Erwin–That is all. Now, I move
to strike out the testimony of the witness
as having been reserved by the prosecuting
authorities as a trick to bring in as re-
buttal at a time when We could not in-
vestigate the testimony, and which ought
to have been put in on the evidence in
chief when We Were confronted with the
a Se. -
C The Court–Objection overruled. The mo-
tion denied.
Mr. Erwin–Exception.
Mr. Hall–The state rests, your honor.
- DANT's suit-REBUTTAL
THE *Yºo º
Ben Bridell
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Q. What is your business? A. Why, I
am a switchman and a brakeman. I work-
ed with the Soo for two years, with the
omaha and for the Chicago and Great
western, for the St. Paul and Duluth, for
the Northern Pacific. I worked for them
1.
*; You were arrested in relation to some-






422
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
thing growing out of a board bill? A. Yes,
sir; there was $7 difference and I refused to
settle.
. Then, you have been indicted under
the “removal of baggage act,” in the Ram-
sey county district court? A. Yes, sir, and
I was bound over on $100 bail and my
trial comes off on Monday. I am suing for
false imprisonment now.
Q. What time were you thrown into the
Ramsey county jail? A. The 19th of Jan-
uary.
Q. When you were placed in jail in Ram-
sey county, what cell was you placed in 2
A. Cell No. 3.
Q. Do you know Adry. Hayward? A. I
know him since I saw him in the Ramsey
county jail.
Q. What cell did he occupy there? A
No. 1.
Q. During the time you were there did
you have a conversation with Adry Hay-
ward in relation to this homicide? A. Yes,
sir; the first day. Do you want me to
state what I said the first day I was in
there?
Mr. Hall—That is objected to as not sur-
rebuttal. You should confine yourself
strictly to the impeaching questions.
Q. On the second day you were in there
did you have a conversation with him in
his cell? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In the course of that conversation did
he say to you, “I know Harry didn’t have
anything to do with the murder?” A.
Well, that is not the right way to put it—
there is one word there that is wrong.
Q. What is the word? A. “Know.”
Q. What did he say? A. He said,
“Harry didn't have anything to do with
the murder that evening; he was at the
opera, and not around the block.” He
didn’t say, “I know.”
- Q. Adry testified that that morning when
you came into the jail that you came to
him and you said, “Your name is Adry
Hayward”—that he told you it was; that
you said, “I am from the junction up
north, and no difference what comes, stand
paſt.” Did you say anything like that?
A. No, sir.
Mr. Hall–Wait a minute. That is ob-
jected to as not sur-rebuttal and attempt—
ing to impeach the witness on an imma-
terial matter.
Mr. Erwin–Oh, that is his own answer.
The Court–Objection overruled.
- Q. Answer the question, Mr. Bridell.
The Court–He has.
Q. Now, then, what was the first conver-
sation you had with him and how did it
occur, if it was different from what he
testified.
Mr. Hall—The same objection.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Well, your honor, we will
note an exception.
Q. Did you say to him on that occasion,
“Your name is Adry Hayward,” and did
he tell you then that it was, and did you
then say to him, “I am from the junction,
up north, and no difference what comes,
you stand paſt.” And did he then say that
it don’t make any difference with me, I
have told Elder Stewart, and I have got
to tell what I know about this, and did
you then say, “That don’t make any dif-
ference, you stand pat?” A. No, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. When were you called as a witness
in this case? A: I was taken by two men
to the West Hotel the night before last.
I was taken there by two men, Burt Car-
rier and George Dale.
Q: Who are they? A. They are two
switchmen; they were going to take me to
Mr. Nye first; they wanted to know who
I wanted to go to and I told them I didn't
care. I didn’t want to go to anybody at
all.
Q. You didn’t tell me what you knew—
didn't you ask me if you were obliged to
testify if you could not get out of the
state? A Yes, sir, I told you I didn't want
to get on the stand.
Q. Then you had not been subpoenaed
at that time? A. I had. I had been sub-
poenaed the night before.
Q. You just said a moment ago that it
was on the same day? A. I didn’t mean
to say that; it was the day before that I
was subpoenaed.
Q. You came up to me and asked me of
you could not get out of town to avoid
testifying 2 A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. And I told you if you had been sub-
poenaed you should stay here and testify,
if you knew anything true, didn't I? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You didn’t tell me what your testi-
mony was, or anything about it? A. I.
told you just a couple of words.
Q. Now, you have been a witness in
good many cases before? A. No, sir, I
never was on the stand in my life.
Mr. Smith—I suppose this is all right, in-
sinuations against this witness. I object
to it.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Q. Have you always gone by the same
name, Bridell? A. I have worked on the
railroad and got black listed and I had to
change my name to get a job.
Q. How many aliases have you worked
under?
Mr. Smith–Objected to as incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial and not cross
examination.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
A. C. Arnold
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Officer, your name is A. C. Arnold?
A. It is.
Q. You belong to the police force in this
city? A. I do.
Q. Do you know James E. Ford, who
lives at the corner of First avenue north
and Fifth street? A. I know a man living
there by the name of Ford, but I don’t
remember his given name.
Q. Mr. Arnold, did you ever have any
conversation with him in regard to his
going across the street at the intersection
of Fifth street and First avenue north and
picking up a stick of wood, and when re-
turning to his house, he being nearly run
over by a team, a horse driven by a
lady? A. Yes, sir. It was the latter part
of November. -
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. He told you about picking up a piece
of wood and being nearly run over?? A.
He said a stick of Wood.
Q. That is all he told you at that time?
A. Yes, sir.





















OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
423
Q. How did you happen to remember the
casual remark of an old gentleman that
picked up a piece of wood sometime in the
latter part of November and was nearly
run over by a passing team? A. Because
he was telling me that in connection with
another thing that transpired that night.
I was not on that beat until it was very
cold weather afterwards. I went off the
beat then. I did not go on until it was
cold weather again.
Mr. Hall—I move to strike out the testi-
mony of this witness on the ground that
no proper foundation has been laid, and
the conversation is not laid as of the date
in November or any date near the 3d of
December
The Court—I don’t think there is any
foundation laid for it myself.
Mr. Erwin–He has related the circum-
stances here, and I want to find out wheth-
er it was on the 3d of December or not.
The Court—Well, I will let it stand. The
motion denied.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. Were you not on duty there
the month of December at all?
sir.
during
A. No,
Charles Derby
was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. Where do you reside? A. 1117 Third
street south.
Q. What is your business?
business.
Q. Do you know M. J. Griffin 2 A. Yes.
He lives at 1115 on the second floor.
Q. It is one of the blocks of which Mr.
W. W. Hayward has charge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see Mr. M. J. Griffin on the
day following Thanksgiving day, that is,
Nev. 30, 1942 A. Yes, sir. He was piling
the wood in his shed right in the rear of
the house. It was pretty close to 10 o'clock
in the morning. I saw him again in the
neighborhood of 20 minutes after 11. He
was still throwing wood in the same place
where he was before, and where I saw him
before.
Q. How many blocks is that from the
Oneida, Block? It is 11 squares from First
avenue south and Third street to where
you live? A. Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. When did you communicate this in-
formation to the attorneys for the defense?
A. Oh, I did not mention it to any of the
attorneys.
Q. Who did you mention it to? A. To
Mr. W. .W .Hayward.
Q. Did you notice how Mr. Griffin was
dressed that time? A. Well dressed as he
ordinarily was.
Q. Were you paying particular attention
to Griffin at that time? A. No sir; I went
down, and he was picking up wood, and he
heard me open the door and he turned
around and he says, “Good morning, Mr.
Derby.” And he smiled so nice I could not
forget it.
Q. From the fact that you were washing
that day and went out to get a basket of
chips that time, you recollect the circum-
stance of Mr. Griffin piling wood on this
particular day, and at this particular hour,
the 30th of November, '94, that is right?A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You are no particular friend of Grif-
A. Laundry
finº A. Why, I never had a cross word
with Griffin—not a word.
Q. Didn't you drive one of your daugh-
ters out of your house, and she found shel-
ter with Mr. Griffinº A. That was my
wife.
Q. Were you not convicted for striking
and assaulting a little child in this city?
A. No, sir.
Q. Is it not true that you were convicted
in the district court of this county? A. No,
sir, I deny it.
Mr. Smith—I object to that.
to throw dirt at this witness,
the protection of the court.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Smith.
Q. You may state what the trouble was
that Mr. Hall has brought out? A. Well,
I would rather my wife state it herself; she
was interested in it.
Mr. Hall—Well, I object.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
Mars. Catherine L. Derby
Was sworn and examined by Mr. Smith.
Q. You are the wife of the preceding wit-
ness? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you state where you were in No-
vember, the 30th, 1894? A. 1117. Third street
south.
Q. Will you state whether you were ac-
quainted with M. J. Griffin 2 A. Slightly.
Q. Did you see him on Nov. 30, 1942 A.
Yes, sir; I saw him in the back yard throw-
ing wood into the shed. It was between 10
and half past 11 o'clock; I saw him three
or four times between 10 o’clock and half
past 11.
Q. Was he at work all the time from
half past 10 to 11?
Mr. Hall–That is objected to as calling
for a conclusion, incompetent and imma-
terial.
The Court—The objection is sustained.
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
By Mr. Hall.
Q. In a laundry it is not an unusual
thing to wash clothes? A. No, sir. We
always have to wash them to get them
Clean.
Q. And when you are washing clothes
you always pay attention to what the
neighbors are doing? A. No, sir; I never
He is trying
and I ask
O.
Q. Well, on this occasion it appears that
you were attending to your neighbor’s busi-
ness—you were observing Griffin and keep-
ing tab on him by the clock? A. No, sir;
I was not.
Q. Did you run the washing machine by
the clock? A. Yes, sir. -
Q. So you were working Mr. Griffin and
the washing machine that day by the
clock?
Mr. Smith–Objected to.
The Court–Objection sustained.
William Kennedy
was sworn and examined by Mr. Erwin.
Mr. Erwin–May it please the court, this
is a witness who was discovered by us
night before last after we had rested our
Case. Now, I will state frankly to the
court what it is; this testimony is to show
the whereabouts of Adry Hayward between
three minutes of 7 and eight minutes past
7 o’clock on the night of the homicide, and
we offer it as a part of our original case. It
is not rebuttal, but it is offered as a part




OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
of our original case because it was dis-
covered since.
The Court–Now this man has been in
the court room here almost every day.
Mr. Erwin–No, your honor; we called
him yesterday—he was not here in the fore-
In Oon.
Mr. Hall—Well, he has been here nearly
every day.
Mr. Erwin–No, sir. We never discovered
him until night before last.
Mr. Hall—They tried to lay the founda-
tion for this when Adry was on the stand,
and it was stricken from the record.
The Court—Yes, that was stricken from
the record.
Mr. Erwin–Well, we will make an offer
of what we expect to prove by this wit-
ness. (Mr. Erwin here dictated to the re-
porter what he xpected to prove by the
witness Kennedy.)
Mr. Erwin–We offer to prove as follows:
That the witness, William Kennedy, went
up to the Public Library after supper and
arrived there about 6 o'clock on the even-
ing of Dec. 3, he thinks, 1894, and went to
the reading rooms, down stairs; was intend-
ing to leave there about 6:30 and go out to
T. H. Pendergat's, at 2812 Girard avenue
south, to see him on a businesss matter;
got interested in reading an article and
before he noticed it was past 6:30; went out
and looked at the library clock and saw that
it was three minutes before 7; immediately
went out and crossed the street to take a
car, which was then coming up the avenue;
got on the car and when it got to Twelfth
street it turned in there, as it was a Haw-
thqrn avenue car; jumped off from the car
and walked up on the northwest side of
Hennepin to Thirteenth street and crossed
Thirteenth street, on the northwest side of
Hennepin to take the next Hennepin car
that came along; stood by the telegraph
pole at the corner and looked around;
looked at the Ozark and saw up on the fifth
floor on the Thirteenth street side what
looked like two persons leaning out of the
window near or just beyond the fire escape;
thinks the electric light was lighted and the
shade on the Ozark or the glare of the light
was such that he could not see distinctly
and moved on the other side of the tele-
graph post, and as he could not then see
well he moved across Thirteenth street on
the northwest side of Hennepin, to a point
about eight feet from the sidewalk; stop-
ped there and just then saw a man on
Thirteenth street, either just coming out of
the entrance of the Ozark or coming out
from behind the building; this man walked
on the sidewalk to Hennepin and crossed
Hennepin on the crossing and went right
past Hennepin within a rod of him; Ken-
medy looked at him and saw plainly that it
was Adry Hayward; neither of them spoke,
but Adry looked back at Kennedy twice be-
fore he reached the tree about 25 feet up on
Thirteenth street, from the corner; Adry
kept On walking up "Thirteenth
street and Kennedy did not
notice him any further; just then a Henne-
pin car came along and Kennedy ran and
jumped on and went out to Pendergast's,
at 28.12 Girard avenue, went in and talked
with Mr. Pendergast and his mother-in-law
in the sitting room; saw another person, a
young lady in an adjoining room sprinkling
water on clothes that looked as if just
washed; thinks her name is Jackman.
Kennedy is positive the man he saw cross
Hennepin and go up Thirteenth street to
wards Hawthorn avenue was Adry. Hav-
ward: and is positive it was not Harrºr
Hayward: has known them both by sight
for some time.
Mr. Hall–That is objected to as incompe-
tent, irrelevant and immaterial, no foun-
dation laid, improper order of proof, and
not sur-rebuttal.
The Court—The objction is sustained.
Mr. Erwin–Well, there is no question
about the proper order of proof, is there?
The Court–No.
- Mr. Hall—Well, I object to it as not be-
ing the proper order of proof.
Mr. Erwin–Well, the court says there
Will be no question about that. I will take
an exception to the ruling of the court.
Mr. Smith–If the court please, the de-
fense in this case is ready to rest, with the
exception that we desire to have the priv-
ilege of using half or three quarters of an
hour when the court convenes Monday
morning, in view of the fact that some of
the testimony that has been introduced
here today in rebuttal by the state has
been an entire surprise to us, and which we
could not under any circumstances be sup–
pose to meet aside from that. We desire,
if it is thought best by us, to consume a
Very short period of time Monday morning
When the court convenes to introduce a
Witness or two, to have the privilege of
doing it.
The Court—My attention has been called
to one witness by Mr. Erwin.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir, and I will just state
it to have it put on record, that a letter
was shown from Mr. Wheeler, dated Ma-
pleton, Minn., Feb. 28, which I received
this morning, and I will have the letter
and the envelope market an exhibit.
(The letter and envelope are
“Z-Z.”) -
Mr. Smith—I did not understand that the
court ruled upon my request–
The Court—That is to consume a short
period of time Monday morning?
Mr. Smith–Yes, sir, if it is thought best
by us to do so.
The Court–Well, I will permit it to go in
if it is rebuttal. We will now take a recess
until 10 o’clock Monday morning.
(Court here took a recess until Monday
morning, 10 o'clock a. m., March 4, 1895.)
Upon reassembling March 4, a further re-
cess was taken until March 5, on account
of the condition of Juror Dyer, and the
illness of County Attorney Nye.
MORNING SESSION, MARCH 5.
CLOSING ADDRESS OF FIRANK. M. NYE
To THE JURY.
May it please the court, gentlemen of the
Jury:
Whoever has shared in the labors and re-
sponsibilities of this trial must feel some
relief at least as we approach its close.
I can hardly hope for sufficient strength
to do justice to the remaining duty which
devolves upon me. But I feel that the
verdict in this cause shall never rest on
any arm of flesh. God, who rules all the
universe, and who is underneath and over
and around about this case, will bring the
eternal sunlight of truth out of it. Bril-
liant and transcendent genius shall have
little part in deciding this case. Children
are we all in the hands of Him who out of
the darkness and horror of this terrible
marked




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 425
crime, shall bring justice, pure and white
winged, born of God, enduring and ever-
lasting. -
I am grateful for the indulgence of the
court, the generosity of the coun-
sel for the defense, and for
your patience, in the personal indul-
gence which I have received on account of
severe ill health.
I do not expect to deal with this case in
a specially analytical manner. I have not
the strength to go through all this vast
volume of testimony and carefully analyze
and weigh and measure it.
Twelve honest minds and twelve con-
sciences sit here, aye, twelve souls, to de-
termine the truth. You have weighed and
remembered all this long testimony; you
have watched the tide of conflict through
many weeks. You have seen the weapons
drawn with desperation, and with a skill
and adroitness on the part of the
defense that no one on this side
of the table had the egotism
for a moment to suppose that he could
cope with.
I have aimed at but one thing, and that
was to move straight forward and present
to the state, to the public all the evidence
in this case, that the world might know
and judge when the last scene is ended,
and the verdict rendered, that the people of
this state and this county might feel that
there was law, and that there was justice.
Whoever shall attempt to consider this
case along narrow lines in any segre-
gated part, whoever shall be dishonest in
the slightest degree in the consideration of
the testimony of this case, is unworthy to
be in it. It is the most wonderful dem-
onstration in all the realm of humanity
that I have ever known or read of in my
experience. A power greater than man has
ever been at work. The law of human con-
science has played its most important and
conspicuous part. -
This torn and prostrate and ignorant as-
sassin himself is brought to his knees before
his God and his fellow men to beg
mercy from heaven and from earth. It has
torn the ties of kindred, snapped the bonds
of brotherhood, torn a family almost asun-
der. It has wrought a sort of moral earth-
quake such as I am unable to describe. It
makes man himself feel very small when
he considers how this law, a law of God
himself, has worked out and wrought out
to a perfect solution, it seems to me, that
which was profoundest mystery.
Gentlemen, take a look for a moment at
one or two of the principal characters in
this drama.
The murder of Catherine Ging has touch-
ed the chords of universal sympathy. It
has stirred the fountains of general pity.
It has moved many eyes to tears. The de-
fendant, and the defendant alone, has re-
mained indifferent. Aye, worse than indif-
ferent.
THE CRUEL SNEER,
and the mocking laugh played over
his bloodless and conscienceless face, while
the tale of blood was being told upon the
witness stand. -
It is proper, I take it, to remark upon
the manner and appearance of that
young man on the trial of such a case as
this.
Gentlemen, a young woman, one he has
called a lover, one he had known for near-
Iy a year in the most intimate business
and social relations, one whom he, if any
one on earth, had infatuated with the prac-
tice of gambling—this girl suddenly, under
the cloak and darkness of night, out on the
shore of Lake Calhoun, is murdered and
thrown upon the highway. From that
hour to this, what has been the manner
of Harry Hayward? The bare public ac-
cusation of being her murderer would have
wrung the very life chords of you and
me. No man living, who had one senti-
ment of love, who had for a moment cher-
ished one thought of affection for that
poor girl, could have stood before the bar
of justice and heard the indictment read
without being prostrated, and who would
we consider this conduct an evidence of
not beg in the name of God and all that
is good, try me, search me; I would have
God and man know all the truth. Oh, gen-
tlemen, if it was given to us to read hu-
man character, and to read the mind, the
soul and the conscience, as He who sees
the end from the beginning reads it, would
we consider this conduct on evidence of
innocence; could we sit in the court room
and read newspapers; could we laugh and
sneer at the testimony of witnesses, no
matter on which side they appear. Ah,
gentlemen, in all the history of the world,
in the moral realm, you have here an
anomaly, a character such as I have no
language or power to depict, such as the
history of the world, it seems to me, has
hardly ever paralleled.
Has he ever earned an honest dollar in
his life? Has he any business except that
of gambling, which is the source and root
of more evil in this world than anything
else? By the very law which man set up
in defying the golden rule, he inverts his
whole life and soul, and labors not to do
as he would be done by, but to get some-
thing for nothing: turns the weary night
into day, and the day into night; schools
and educates his nerve until he is able to
put a thousand dollars on the turn of the
next card, and he recks not and
he reckons not Whether that
$1,000 is his or the money of the poor, un-
fortunate, misguided girl.
Such, gentlemen of the jury, is a brief
glance of the character of Harry Hay-
ward.
Turn now, for a moment, to another char-
acter, Claus A. Blixt; a working man all
his life, a laboring man who up until the
fall of 1894 earned with the sweat of his
brow every dollar and every
penny he ever had. The only
thing in his record which counsel could
bring against him was the fact that for a
very short season, having no job at his
trade, he attended bar down here some-
where in South Minneapolis. It was tem-
porary. We went quite minutely and quite
thoroughly over his history. Born in Swe-
den, coming here when 6 or 7 years old, his
parents located down in Goodhue county
on a farm; this boy is raised on a farm,
and we traced him through the years that
followed, a farmer's boy; learning inciden-
tahly the engineer's trade, pursuing that,
finally becoming an engineer employed
down in the country, employed here in
Minneapolis; and faithfully that poor man
labored, with no ambition beyond that of
supporting his wife and little ones. And I
challenge the world to throw the search



426
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
light of heaven upon his record and his
history, and you will find it to be unam-
bitious, perhaps, but honest, true, faith-
ful and plodding. Take his employers, if
you want to, Baxter & Sons, or any one
else, search his record as I have, if you
will, and I say up until April, 1894, he be-
longed to that vast and noble army which
moves the world; the army for whom my
learned friend professes to be the champion,
an army of toilers and men from whose
brow the sweat of toil is wrung by day and
by night.
In April, 1894, these two characters met,
these two opposites; this blood of the base-
ment, of the grim and dust and grease of
the engine rods, and this blood of the parlor
of society—these two currents began to
flow together. The child of poverty, the
child of wealth, the child of homespun, the
CHILD OF BROADCLOTH AND DIA- .
MONDS.
the servant, the employer, the employe,
the employer; a man to whom the benight-
ed and darkened mind of Claus A. Blixt
would as naturally turn for strength or aid
as a child to its parents. Is it not true in
the law of mind as well as everything
else, that the stronger controls the weaker?
How insidiously and by degrees, and how
naturally, and how easily, day in and day
out, and night in and night out, in the
basement, whether by flattery or otherwise,
the time should eventually come when
claus A. Blixt should be the tool and in-
strument of Harry T. Hayward.
We are all wicked. We are all wickeder
than we dare to own. We are all suscepti-
ble to the love of money. And what is
there so common in the weakness of hu-
manity as to take the poor man, the plod-
der, the dollar and a quarter to the dollar
and a half a day man, who works 12 or 18
hours a day, when the serpent of a varice
and deception shall enter his quietness and
tell him that money can be made easier,
that he is foolish. How natural and how
easy it is for men to listen to these things.
Well, gentlemen, weeks and months passed
on. This thing stands out prominently
through all this case; that in all the toil-
ing and weary hours of Claus A. Blixt at
the Ozark, Harry Hayward is his compan-
ion. Who else in the name of all that is
good and just has entered upon his path
to poison and pollute it? Who else does
the evidence of this case show ever entered
the basement of the Ozark flats in whose
mind there could be any conspiracy
to murder? For from the beginning to
the end I see the fiendish form of this
man hovering in the darkness of night,
and after that poor laborer should have
been in bed, closeted with that poor man.
Time passes on. Such are the rules of
evidence and such is the law that we could
not be permitted to go into the poisoned
details of all the different steps which
might have been employed up to the time
that the suggestion was finally made of
this murder.
It does appear, however, in evidence, gen-
tlemen, that one suggestion was made in
the fall, a suggestion, too, gentlemen,
which was carried out and consummated.
That was to set fire to that barn. And
in the course of various conversations by
which Hayward was persistently and de-
terminedly using the serpentine powers of
argument upon that poor man, that finally
as one lever, as one pressure, he reminds
him of the fact that he can put him in
the penitentiary for ten years for burning
the barn. It is in evidence uncontradicted
that the barn was burned, and it was in
the power and was the privilege and right of
the defense to have gone into it and ex-
plained it if they had seen fit. They could
not do it. It is the living God’s truth,
and it is only one of the instances of like
kind. Time passes on; suggestions are
made. I had some thought of reading to
you condensed portions of Mr. Blixt's testi-
mony. His testimony is long. I believe I
had better pass it over. It has been averted
to so many times, particularly in the cross-
examination and in asking questions of in-
peachment, so much of it has been reiterat-
ed and reiterated before you, that I think
I will not stop and read it.
On the night of Dec. 3, after a system
of training, by coercion, by whatever sort
of mental power you may call it, after
MONTHS OF HELLISH DISCIPLINE,
after filling this poor man with whisky, he
is started upon the fatal and awful jour-
ney to murder that poor girl. It was an
act as absolutely foreign to the life, char-
acter and heart of Claus A. Blixt as the
north pole from the south. What was the
result? Sick, physically; broken down for
six weeks; nothing like himself; no appe-
tite; no sleep; under the nervous and un-
natural strain of crime and guilt; suspicion
attaches to Claus A. Blixt and he is taken
to the police headquarters. It is a revolu-
tion of his entire being, physically, men-
tally and morally, no human being prob-
ably ever went through the throes and
agonies that that man passed through. A
darkened intellect; the dawning of con-
sciousness; the prostration of the soul;
the groping towards God for mercy—who,
save him who shall be inspired, can paint
the picture of that man’s life for a few
days, until He who made us all sent forth
His promise of mercy and forgiveness?
Counsel may stand here by the hour, if
he will, to criticise this testimony, to criti-
cise the inconsistencies of his statements:
but his honor saw, you saw, the world
saw and does see what was appearing upon
that mind, and what caused him, by de-
grees, as his mind became brighter, his
soul more pure, to stand forth and take
the consequences, whatever they might be,
of his crime. What criticism there has
been by counsel who opened the case, and
will be by him who shall close it, concern-
ing the attitude of this man, Claus A.
Blixt, as if there was some corrupt and
poisoned bargain with him, if forsooth he
should lend his testimony against this
man, it might be easier for him. Cannot you,
and can’t the world trust his fate and the
justice of his sentence to the spirit and
conscience of the bench 2 Has it come to
this, that because poor Blixt has not been
tried and sentenced, that his testimony is
to be weighed and considered of less value?
He has done all under God’s power and di-
rection that he can do. He has told all,
and my life for it, gentlemen, that man
will tell it, if need be, on the scaffold. For
it is as true as the word of God itself, and
it will live and endure forever. Find as
you may in your verdict, talk as you may
about any interest he may have in this
case, I tell you, gentlemen, he has done




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 427
all that a poor, unfortunate mortal could
do—he has told all. And when the time
comes, I will, as publicly as I do today,
declare my conscience and my belief con-
cerning what is justice, and I believe it
will meet the sympathetic conscience of
his honor, who sits upon the bench. Try
me in the light of God's truth in this case,
if you will—I have no ambition save that
when this case is ended, the world may
know that law in this county is not a
farce, and that justice is not a mere
whim.
Why didn't we try Blixt first? Because
I would go to the root and merit of this
case. I would put the probe to the very
bottom and treat first with that character
and that life which is so infamous and so
damnable as to conceive and plot the
murder of that poor girl.
Gentlemen, it must be remembered, in the
first place, that accomplices in murder
cases are not generally selected from
among the honorable; they are taken from
the scenes of blood. It is not commonly
to be expected that they are men of high
character or conscience. We cannot select
our witnesses. In the very nature of
things, he whose knowledge of a crime is
such that it involves a degree of moral
guilt on his own part—in the very nature
of things, I say, that man is not an angel.
But you have to take him as he is. You
have got to go to the source of natural in-
formation. But I tell you, gentlemen, I
feel eitirely different towards Claus A.
Blixt than I ever felt towards any other
criminal that I have had experience with.
I have studied this case since the 3d of De-
cember; I have talked with the man in his
cell; I have seen him day after day on the
witness stand, and from my standpoint—
and the evidence in the case in my judg-
ment warrants it—I say it is one of the
greatest moral misfortunes that ever over-
took a human soul that that man Blixt.
should fall under the influence, darkness
and power of Harry Hayward. You may
call it sentimentalism, or what you may;
I have a degree of sympathy when I read
his life and history and the causes which
eventually led to the untimely assassina-
tion of that poor girl at the hands of this
man, whose hands were not the hands of
the criminal naturally—whose hands even
then were black and greasy and soiled by
honest labor.
Now, gentlemen, that is not all. There
has been some comment here by the learned
counsel concerning the consolation of re-
ligion. For my part, I may be classed
with the publican, obliged to smite my
breast and plead only for mercy; but I
have a profound religious conviction. I be-
lieve in Him who breathed out his mag-
nanimous and divine spirit upon the cross. I
believe that His pure, his loving, mild and
gentle and serene spirit shone for three
days through that poor, ignorant and be-
nighted soul, as he sat upon the witness
stand. And I saw genius—such as, I claim,
has no equal at the bar of this con-
tinent—a child and a toy for days in the
hands of that poor, ignorant Claus A.
Blixt. It was a power of truth he dare
not resist. I trust that this power and
CONSCIOUSINESS OF GOD
shall keep him when he shall finally argue
this case, and lead him not beyond that
spirit and conscience in which we both be-
lieve—upon which I am ready to stake my
life, who ever witnessed such a scene in
a court room? A bright and brilliant
man, even though comparatively honest,
might have faltered, might have staggered,
might have stumbled in a thousand places
under the ingenuity of my friend's cross
examination. But the voice of simple
truth, the answer came as prompt and as
ready as if the power of God had come to
him in the hour of his peril and his night
to make him the instrument—him, the
assassin – the man who had done
the deed, which at first sight
horrifies and terrifies mind and con-
science — and still under the provi-
dence of Heaven he was made the instru-
ment of truth and justice in this case.
Let his testimony be criticised, but I beg
of you, as you are the guardians of the
safety and weal of the commonwealth, all
that is dear and sacred, when argument
is ended on both sides, be perfectly hon-
est, follow the intuitions and impressions
which are natural and just; and you will
find when you fairly and honestly consider
that what may seem to be inconsistencies,
what may seem to be oral mis-statements,
lies and falsehoods, while partially so,
will eventually give place to the clear and
absolute light of truth. Why, he spoke
once in his cross-examination—the counsel
was questioning him upon the experience
which he had the night he was first put
under arrest; men who were present at the
West Hotel—and he finally disclosed the
fact that none of these men had moved
him in any particular—that he had given
up nothing. My friend says to him, “If
all of these men (referring to the men at
the West Hotel who had pumped him dur-
ing the night) couldn’t make you change
your story, it will be pretty hard for me
to make you change your story now.” His
answer was, “I am a different man from
what I was then. I am sure of that. My
mind is not like any other, be-
cause my mind was mixed up; I
was not myself. That is true.”
Q. Has that continued to the present time
are you still mixed up? A. No, sir, I am
all right now and happy. Q. That made
you happy? A. God in heaven has made
me happy. Q. You think you are for-
given? A: I am, I am certain. Q. And
you feel now perfectly happy? A. I feel I
have a life with God in heaven; I am cer-
tain of it. Q. That takes away all the
horror of a murder? A. No, sir, I have a
sore in my breast that will never heal up
as long as I live, but I am happy and know
that after this life I shall have a good
happy life with God. That is the way I
feel.” In another place the counsel asks
him “Did you feel the dampness of blood
about you? The answer was “No, sir, I
didn't.” Q. Got none on your hands? A.
Not as I know of. I might have got a
little blood–I must admit that, but not
to my knowledge, because my hands are
not now the way they were then, because
they were black and greasy all times; so
if I had had a little blood on my hands
it wouldn’t have snown. I couldn’t have
had much because I would have known it.”
Gentlemen of the jury, the hand is often
used as the type of the soul. His hands, as
he sat here in the witness stand, were not
as they were that cruel and bloody night.
Some power—the power which must sus-
tain you and I as we enter the
-



428
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH
—has given that poor man hope, and such
a degree of regeneration that his hands are
not only literally cleaner than they were
that night, but typically the soul itself is
not what it was then.
Now, gentlemen of the jury, as I say, I
am not going over these many stories of
Blixt. I want to turn and consider briefly,
and I shall endeavor to do it briefly, the
manner in which Mrs. Blixt has corroborat-
ed his testimony. You know the various
conversations and transactions which pre-
ceded the night of Dec. 3 and the final in-
terview on the evening of the 3d of Decem-
ber between Blixt and Harry; the going to
the buggy; the testimony of Blixt as to the
route that he took to the lake; the con-
versation had with Miss Ging on the way.
The place was pointed out, as near as he
was able, at which he fired the fatal shot;
at the distance of some 30 or 40 rods, I
think, she was driven beyond that and a
turn made, and then back about three-
quarters of a mile to where the body was
thrown upon the ground. He returns
on his way; he meets Erhardt; then he
drives out to a place On Lake
street somewhere—Fremont, or wherever
it is, you will remember—leaves the horse
and lets him go; walks down to Twenty-
ninth and Lyndale and there sees the
watchman, Kennedy; has a moment or two
conversation with him; that is at Twenty-
ninth street. Then comes down to Twenty-
seventh, takes the car and returns to the
city and goes up on Washington avenue
and then passes down to the corner of First
avenue and Washington avenue, and tes-
tifies to seeing the switchman there of the
Twin City Rapid Transit Company, takes
the Bloomington car and goes to South Min-
meapolis, No. 22.16 Twelfth avenue south;
returns and goes into a saloon, next to a
jewelry shop, and then finally goes to the
Ozark flats, arriving in the neighborhood
of 10 o’clock, and going into Harry's flat
as he enters, making the exchange of cart-
ridges, placing the revolver where he was
instructed to place it, and then going to
bed. Next, Harry's visit during the night.
Now, gentlemen of the jury, I expect
there is quite a field for the ingenuity of
the defense in the examination of these
matters of corroboration of Blixt, concern-
ing those natural, those silent witnesses in
the case, such as the position of the body,
condition of the buggy, condition of cloth-
ing, condition of the tracks—those things.
But I am going to ask you, gentlemen,
without very much argument on my part,
to simply take an honest, commonsense
view of those various questions and settle
them, not in the light of theories, but in
the light of the evidence in this case; what
is natural and what is honest.
I am unable to see why the condition of
that buggy, as to blood, is not a natural,
a powerful and complete corroboration of
Claus Blixt.
Gentlemen, there never
blood from that woman
thrown from the buggy,
was a drop of
before she was
but what came
from the wound of entrance at the rear of
the right ear.
You will be your own judges—you saw the
buggy here; you heard the testimony of
Mr. Goosman in connection with it, and I
submit to you that this is within itself a
powerful and complete corroboration.
It is
a prominent corroboration of the fact that
that poor dead woman's head rested back
on the back curtain, where the blood still
remained when you saw the buggy, and she
must have ridden for some distance in that
Way—that drunken and benighted murderer
holding the robe between him and her.
And the woman's hat is a complete corrob-
oration of the blood stains which must have
rubbed against the hat as he was endeavº-
oring to
STEADY THE LIFELESS FORM
that rode by his side. Let them make all
they can out of the buggy, the position of
the body, the skull or what they may, the
farther we have gone in this case and the
more evidence has come in, the more we
have demonstrated that every word of
Claus A. Blixt's testimony was true. You
are not going to be deceived by any fine
haired distinction about position, or how
the limp and lifeless woman thrown from
the buggy on the frozen ground might or
might not strike. We have demonstrated
by the best physicians in this city, and we
could have brought 50 more, that those
fractures might likely, might and prob-
ably did result from the fall. And some
of these physicians have testified, and one
of their own physicians gave currency to
the opinion himself, that they could have
been produced by the concussion of the
bullet itself.
Now, what is there in the case as to
the body? Isn’t there many different ways
that that girl, being thrown from the bug-
gy, might have cut the lip upon the tire of
the wheel, or upon the frozen and uneven
surface of the ground? What is there in
the case, gentlemen, that is not consistent,
absolutely consistent with the testimony of
Claus A. Blixt?
I will refer further on, perhaps, gentle-
men, to some other features of the testi-
mony, I see I haven’t them in this part
of my notes, I will come to this later, con-
Cerning other features, the tracks, and so
forth, and the shot which was heard.
The first corroborative witness in the
case of Blixt is Erhardt himself. Now, it is
only two blocks from where Erhardt got off
the street car line to the point where he
lived, his house. He had gone from the
street car, I think, not over half a block,
when he met the buggy. The place where
the body was found was in the neighbor-
hood of a block, or pretty nearly half the
distance between Erhardt's house and the
street car line. The horse was going rapid-
ly and on a run, naturally frightened by the
falling body. It had not probably been 15
seconds from the time that the body was
thrown on the ground until Erhardt, at the
foot of the hill, meets the rig. If there had
been any third party, any one who had been
concerned in that murder, the chances are
not one in a hundred that he would not
have been detected by Erhardt before he
could have been able to make his escape.
You remember, gentlemen, what a long
cross-examination of Erhardt we had here:
how persistently and how terrifically my
friend fished, and worked, and toiled to
drive some poor criminal out of the brush
there somewhere. You remember how he
worked for hours in cross-examination of
Erhardt, who had told all he knew in a
very few words, in the desperate hope to
unearth something upon which to build a
suspicion, not necessarily to relieve Hay-






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 429
ward, but to throw discredit upon the testi-
mony of Claus A. Blixt. It was unavailing;
it amounted to nothing.
Now, gentlemen, without going into de-
tail here on the question of tracks—why, it.
appeared from the testimony of the officers
that they themselves introduced, that the
tracks which they undertook to show were
somewhat suspicious in their character,
were nothing more or less than a continua-
tion of the beaten foot tracks up and down
that piece of road, where scores of people
during that night, had passed back and
forth. The explanation of the turn of the
buggy, and all that sort of thing, was
made; the explanation of the firing. of the
shot the testimony of Eidam, which, by
the way, I did not hear—I think must have
satisfied you that he actually heard this
shot that Blixt fired, and about and in the
place which he described.
The testimony of Thomas K. Kennedy,
the switchman on Twenty-ninth and Lyn-
dale, is a corroboration of Claus A. Blixt.
The testimony of Phillip Stanton, switch-
man for the Twin City Rapid Transit Com-
pany, is in a measure, and in a. natural
way, a corroboration of the testimony of
Blixt. Naturally it was that Stanton should
not remember the night, but he had known
Blixt and he remembered the occasion
about that time, of Blixt speaking to him
as he stood at his post of duty on Wash-
ington and First avenue south. He testi-
fi... that he was on duty the night of the
3d; that he paid no particular attention to
Blixt after Blixt left him, and he could
not say whether he took a Bloomington
car or not. Blixt took the car, according
to his testimony, and goes down to South
Minneapolis. -
Now, I can see why a guilty man as
Blixt should have gone down there to his
friend's, Lund or whatever his name was -
Mr. Hall. Blum.
Mr. Nye, Blum. It was in the nature of
an alibi; it was in fact his first explanation
as to his whereabouts. It was the most
natural thing in the world for him to so
down there. Now, they brought in some
SLEEPY, hotſ L,L AND STUPID WIT-
NESSES
here who lived upstairs there, and whose
own testimony showed they had gone to
bed—showed that the light was burning
low in the bedroom and the curtain shades
—the green curtain shades—were down and
the two doors were fastened between them
and where Blixt knocked. They simply
failed to hear him knock at the door. And
with the desperation of drowning men who
cling at straws my friend upon the other
side harped at that question, that we failed
to corroborate Blixt that he was down there
at Twelfth avenue south. Gentlemen, he
needed no corroboration. He comes back-
he is corroborated by the jeweler, and he
returns to the Ozark.
The buggy tracks and the pointed shoe
tracks are disproved by Mr. J. H. Russell
and Mr. Torrence; and shots are disposed
of by Ed Eidam, as his testimony convinc-
ingly corroborates Blixt.
Now, gentlemen, before we examine fur-
ther the testimony concerning what trans-
pired on that night, let us look back to
what precedes the night of Dec. 3, and get
in our minds, refreshed by the testimony,
the relation which existed between Harry
Hayward and Miss Ging.
Hayward says he met the girl in January,
and I believe he claims that no gambling
transactions were entered into until spring.
He testified that in April their relations
became quite intimate, in a business way
at least; that they continued to increase in
May, increased in June and July, and I
take it up until Dec. 3, although he claims
he did not know of her gambling after
July.
Let us glance at the testimony of the wit-
nesses outside of Hayward, in point of
time. Let me first call your attention to
the testimony of that clairvoyant, for her
testimony covers a period of time from
April down to December. She says, and
Hayward's testimony does not contradict
it, that both he and She were
visiting this trance medium constantly,
very frequently, many times a week,
mainly concerning these gambling tran-
sactions. And I call your attention to the
fact that her testimony shows that, down
to the latter part of November, Miss Ging
was still infatuated with gambling and
was still investing her money, under the
direction of Harry Hayward, in gambling
transactions.
Let's glance at her testimony and what
is it's substance; she says he first visited
her May 7, came a good many times after-
wards, sometimes regularly every day;
mentioned that two ladies would conne–ºne
told me that they had been in some place,
but I could not say where they were, and
some of the ladies had won five dollars and
the other lady, Miss Ging, had won twenty-
five dollars, and the other lady won five. I
think he said that this one he gave five to
won seven and a half dollars, something
like that, I won’t say positively, and the
other lost. He said he wanted me to tell
Miss Ging different things. Q. What did
he want you to tell her? A. In that way
that she could win more than in gambling.
Q. What further did he say? A. Well, he
said, I think so, and he told me never to
tell it to anybody, and I promised not to;
and then Harry told me her name, and I
forgot that, and he wanted me to write it
out and I did it. And that Harry promised
me so much money. Q. How much? A. I
could not say, Q. Can you remember about
how much? A. He told me I never would be
wanting for money, any how. Q. What for?
A. If I would help him out that way, he
could get money to gamble with; I went
out to the kitchen and told my husband
about it, and he said, “Whatever you do
don’t do it; if you give anybody a sitting,
give them a solid sitting or nothing,”
and that is what I did. Q. Without going
over the whole proceeding, I will ask you
to state what Harry said. if anything, to
you, after that, with regard to his business
relations with Miss Gingº: A First, he
said, the next day he came back; I think
it was the next day he came back, and he
said to me, ‘You told in my favor,” he said,
and Miss Ging the same time. He came
back the next day, and he said, “She will
have good luck for three or four times,
and after that she will be in bad luck.”
That is as near as I can remember. Q.
Was there any occasion in which money
was paid there in your presence? A. Yes.
One day Miss Ging—I think Harry was
going to Chicago, and he came down there
and Miss Ging said, “Now, Harry, here is
$500; you do the best of it.’ Quite late in
the fall, she felt awfully discouraged, and




430 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
said, "Madam, you discourage me.’ Q. Did
Harry at any time state to you how much
money he had got from her? A. Yes; late
in the fall he said he got $1,375; that is, as
near as I can remember.” He testifies him-
self, by the way, that he thinks Miss Ging
put in at least $2,000 in the gambling enter-
prise. “Q. Did he tell you at any time
prior to that any particular amounts of
money that he had got from her? A. Yes;
one time he got $150; one time $25, and one
time he got $50; that is as close as I can
remember the amounts. Q. Did he tell
you anything further about how he was
fixed financially 2 A. Yes, sir; one
time he Canne back from Chi-
cago and said he had had bad luck;
said he was broke; said he did not have
any money and said Miss Ging did not have
any money, and said Miss Ging has some
property, but she couldn’t get any money
out of it; there was no insurance, no way
of getting money out of it. That is as
near as I can tell it. There was something
about a mill; he went to Chicago twice,
once in the summer and once in the fall;
the conversation regarding his financial
condition was when he returned, the sec-
ond time.
Now, there is, in substance, the testimony
of that woman, and it
BETRAYS A WICKED HEART,
a criminal heart, in Hayward. It is a
manifest and open attempt at the very
start to bribe this poor woman, who claim-
ed to have some gift or faculty of telling
the future, in order that he might bleed
that poor woman of her money for gamb-
ling purposes. And I tell you, gentlemen,
you can consider his testimony in connec-
tion with it—and my understanding of it is
that he hardly denies the substance of it,
any material part of the testimony of that
woman. It shows, gentlemen of the jury,
that she was the dupe, the absolute tool
and servant of his will and his power. It
was a cruelty beyond all power of descrip-
tion.
Aye, for months, gentlemen, for months,
he is making that woman herself the in-
strument of her final death, her final mur-
der. Unconscious, unwilling victim of his
plans and devices, step by step until she
has lost all and Hayward sees himself a
financial wreck and begins to devise one of
the most wicked plans ever heard of in the
history of criminal law.
About the next in point of time is the
testimony of the hack driver, Peter Val-
laley. His testimony relates mainly to a
time in July. Gentlemen, there is a dark,
suspicious and mysterious scene in this aw-
ful testimony. For half or three-quarters
of an hour between 3 and 4 o’clock in the
morning after Vallaley has driven Hayward
and other people around over the city,
Hayward gets into the hack with this hack
driver and has a long talk with him. What
is the substance of his testimony? His tes
timony is “Am quite well acquainted with
Harry. Had hauled him numerous times.
Conversation with Harry between 4 and 5
o'clock. It was in the morning in July in
front of the Ozark; reached the Ozark
about 4 o'clock in the morning. Q. How
long did you remain there at the time of
this conversation that occurred in the
hack? A. Half or three-quarters of an
hour. Q. Go on, now, and state what he
said to you at that time. A. Well, he was
questioning me in regard to my conscience,
if I done any deeds or anything like that
would my conscience bother me afterwards.
I told him it would. He didn’t mention
what the deed was. Q. State fully the
conversation as you can remember it. A.
I would not Say. I could not
state it in full, it Wals so long
ago. Q. State what you remember con-
cerning it. A. Well, he asked me differ-
ent things, and I couldn't hardly under-
stand what he wanted to get at. Q. What
did he ask you? A. He asked me about
driving into the lake with a party in the
hack. He didn't say what or who it was,
main or woman or what, and turn off and
let the team go, and come out. I told him
I was no swimmer. Q. What further did
he say? A. He wanted to know if the
team was fractious. I told him they were.
Supposing you would hit them and turn
them loose, and pull them off to a place
something like that, would it be apt to do
the whole rig up? I told him it would.
He asked me what I would take for
the rig. I told him. He asked me if I
cared what was done with the rig after
he had it. I told him no, it was imma-
terial to me. Q. This conversation which
you say lasted half or three-quarters of
an hour, what further can you recall that
was said 2 Was it in argument, about
whether you should do it or not, or
whether your conscience would trouble
you? A. There was a question to see
whether my conscience would bother me if
I done some deed or other; that was what
way I looked at it. Q. Was there any deed
mentioned, other than the drowning of a
person or letting the team run away, as
you have described? A. That was one sup-
position which was just merely asked for
information, which I gave. Q. Well, what
did you tell him in regard to the other
matter—anything further? A. I told him
in regard to anything like that I wouldn't
have nothing to do with anything that
would injure nobody or kill them, not if I
knowed it. Q. Have you stated it all?
A. All that I can remember. He may have
said something more than that to me that
I don’t remember now. Q. Well, I ask
you, then, if he mentioned any place? A.
No place in particular, only he suggested
one place, that is that Lake Calhoun: the
bluff on this side of the boathouse. Q. That
is what I wanted to know. Do you recall
anything further concerning that conver-
sation? A. Well, he asked me some ques-
tions that I can’t just remember in regard
to having somebody in the rig and letting
the team run away, or something in that
shape, if everything was fixed so nobody
could ever find it out afterwards; every-
thing would be in black and white, and I
would have so much money, but I can't
just remember what there was because 1
didn’t take much stock in it. Q. Did
you ever have any other conversation of a
similar character to that referred to at the
Ozark? A. No, sir; only one night he
wanted me to remember a date for him,
that is all. That was the 20th of June.”
Now, gentlemen of the jury, one of the
weakest, most
AIBJECT AND PITIABLE EXPLANA-
TIONS
that the defendant has had occasion to
make in this whole case is concerning that
interview with that hack driver that night



OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL.
431
Do you know what it is? Do you remem-
ber what it was? They pass it over very
lightly, but he says, “I merely wanted to
test his conscience.” Think of that young
man in that hack, at that hour of the
morning, when he should have been asleep,
curious to know how that poor hack driv-
er's conscience was: Ah! there are some
things in this case, gentlemen, too deep
for any explanation, along the line of in-
nocence. They may stand here in denun-
ciation of Adry Hayward. I ask you how
in the name of God it is that he and Blixt.
too, could have ever devised a story con-
cerning a hack driver. Adry didn’t know
who he was. Under the providence of
Heaven, late in the direct case of the state,
we found the man, showing that it could
never have been an invention of Adry
Hayward, nor Claus Blixt, nor anyone else.
He was trying him. Vallaley was the man
he then had in mind. Vallaley was the
man he was working on then, and the
plan was to run that girl off and the hack
over the bluff into Lake Calhoun.
Now briefly, gentlemen, glance over a
little of this insurance testimony. If you
will excuse me for a very few minutes
while I refer to this testimony, I will sit
as I read some of it. Testimony of John
E. Hodge: Conversation with Hayward in
his office about the 1st of September:
“Wanted to know if he could take out a
policy making him the beneficiary. I said
he could not. Then he said he had loaned
or was going to loan an amount which I
remember was something like one uhousand
dollars, and he wished to take out a five
thousand dollar policy on her life. I said
he could take a policy of insurance upon
her life, making an assignment to himself
for the loan; that the company in no wise
would make him the beneficiary on ac-
count of experiences of a similar sort which
had been very unsatisfactory in life in-
Surance. He wanted to know whether the
whole policy couldn’t be paid him if–I
can’t remember his exact words now—but
if he should pay the whole premium him-
self, if he should pay the whole premium
himself wouldn’t the company—I said it
made no difference. I said while he could
not be made beneficiary, the policy could
be assigned to him as collateral security
for a note or indebtedness to him. And
it was further asked why the whole policy
could not be assigned in the same way? I
stated a note of even date for the full
amount might be written up, of even date
or thereabouts, and he said: “Supposing
the estate of the lady should find out that
I had not loaned the full five thousand dol-
lars, could he then get the whole of the
opolicy? He laughed and said he guessed
it wouldn’t hold water anyway.”
Arthur Pierce, of the New York Tife In-
surance, testified substantially to a conver-
sation at the office in the latter part of
September. Defendant inquired after rates,
etc.; came to the office on the 17th of No-
vember; said that Miss Ging had notified
him there was some mistake in making out
the report in regard to a certain answer.
About the 26th of November he asked for
blank assignments to be used in assigning
policies, and I gave him a set. They came
º assign the policy on the 28th of Novem-
er.
Testimony of Frederick White, in sub-
stance, of the New England Mutual Life
Insurance Company: “Sept. 10 defendant
came to the office and said he had loaned
to a woman a thousand dollars. My impres-
sion is as to age it was about 30, and he
wanted to take out $5,000 in insurance as
security for his loan. I told him the com-
pany was very careful to see about insur-
able interests in anyone, especially a
woman, and I said they wouldn't asign a
five thousand dollar policy to cover a loan
of one thousand dollars, but they would as-
sign a thousand dollars of that amount.
He said he didn't care to have that, and he
couldn’t see why he couldn't have it all,
especially if he paid the premium. Q. State
as near as you can what he said, and what
you said, the substance of it, if you can’t
recall his words. A. Well, he wanted the
five thousand dollar policy assigned to him
as security for a thousand dollars which
he said he had loaned; I understood he had
made the loan at that time, and I says
the company wouldn't assign a five thou-
sand dollar policy to cover a loan of one
thousand dollars, but they would assign a
one thousand dollar as a lien against the
policy. I am only giving you the gist of
these witnesses’ testimony.
John G. Purple, of the Traveler's Life and
Accident: “First saw defendant the latter
part of November, and sometimes in Miss
Ging's shop; explained the nature of the
second accident policy that I had delivered
to her at that time as being different from
the one she had received the day before.
The first policy was an annuity policy, pay-
able $1,000 at death, and $1,000 each remain-
ing four years. I explained that this policy
which I then gave her would be payable the
full amount at death.”
The significance, gentlemen, of these vari-
ous circumstances I will not stop to dwell
upon now. It is somewhat remarkable that
that woman, who was a woman who evi-
dently never knew anything about life in-
surance, that Harry didn’t tell her, should
have suggested the changing of an annuity
policy for one
PAYABLE, AILL AT DEATH.
The fact was, Harry wasn't present when
she got the first one, and he changed the
program. That is all there was to that.
“Miss Ging had seen me before, and thought
it would be better to have such a policy.
This policy was $5 more; she paid that.”
Received in evidence, marked exhibit, etc.
“Wednesday after the murder he met de-
fendant on the street. Defendant asked
him what steps he should take to get the
insurance. I said that is a matter between
you and our company.”
Testimony of George M. Baker, of the
Traveler's, of Hartford: “Some time in
the summer defendant was in the office;
came in to inquire about assignment. I
think this was the latter part of November.
Wanted to know if an assignment written
on New York Life blanks would be good
for the Traveler’s.”
Testimony of Charles W. Bliler, Pre-
ferred Accident, of New York. “Saw de-
fendant Saturday, September 1st; took
policy of accident insurance on his own
life, in favor of Miss Ging, designated as
a friend. December 3rd called to renew
it. That policy had expired. He said he
didn’t care for it, he had insured with
Brewster.”
The testimony of Brewster showed that
he had taken out a policy, but taken it,
|



































432 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
not in favor of Miss Ging, but in favor
of his mother.
Testimony of Gilbert, as to his conversa-
tion, I don’t think I need to stop to read it
in full. You heard all this testimony, gen-
tlemen. It is for you to say as honest and
fair men whether Mr. Hayward was doing
this business in a honest, legitimate, busi-
ness way. The surrender value, gentle-
men, of the policies were nothing. As se-
curity, those life insurance policies weren't
worth a snap of your finger, practically;
and yet, with what untiring industry, with
all the vigilance of a night hawk, this
man goes from place to place, from conn-
pany to company, from agent to agent,
from lawyer to lawyer. What for? To get
an insurance of ten thousand dollars on
that poor girl's life. But more than that,
an insurance for the purpose of realizing
upon it. Running all through it you can
find no evidence of honesty in the trans-
action anywhere. Various questions with
regard to contests that might arise; with
regard to accidents, with regard to sui-
cides, with regard to cases of murder—all
through this entire insurance business, his
conduct bears no sign of honesty from be-
ginning to end; it indicates no honest and
legitimate business transaction, but be-
trays througout his anticipation and ex-
pectation to realize on the policy. He con-
templated the death of Kattie Ging. There
is no other reasonable solution of it, even
of his transaction with these insurance
companies.
Poor Kattie Ging's lips are sealed. She
has gone. The state claims, upon what it
believes to be, the most overwhelming tes-
timony, that Harry Hayward was the
cause of her murder. Strange providence
which permits him after such a deed of
this if it be true, to go upon the witness
stand, when she cannot answer, and tell
the strange story which he has told. Take
his entire story. Oh, I wish that the super-
natural powers above
MIGHT UN SEAL, HER LIPS OF DUST
for one moment, that she might tell upon
the witness stand the secret of this un-
timely blood. But it is so ordered in the
natural course of things that the defen-
dant comes with a story so strange, so
suspicious in it character, that it needs no
denial from her who now is beyond the
purple hills, I trust at rest.
Take that story of the 24th of November;
the notes of $7,000. Ranker perjury and
more absolutely impossible or improba-
ble falsehood never was voiced from a
witness stand than that whole damnable
and suspicious story. Seven thousand dol-
lers. Oh! I wish that girl were here to ex-
plain some of the things which lie only in
the realm of conjecture, but, gentlemen of
the jury, you know, for you can discern
between truth and falsehood. You know
that the whole story of that seven thou-
sand dollars and the $2,500 preceding it is
the rankest falsehood that ever stained an
earthly temple of justice. You know it. He
didn’t have it. Why, what a fairy tale this
young Goodale tells! This money belt! This
counting of the money in Chicago! The
place where he had got the money! All his
fortune in life, going to turn it over to
Miss Ging. Miss Ging was to take this
money for the purpose of investing in a
stock of millinery goods. After that stock
should be purcshased she would give him
a chattel mortgage. I don't know what the
interest would be, whether it was 9 per
cent. It don't make any difference, it was
all Hayward had, you know; it was all he
had saved in a life time. He claimed that
it was the fruit of his father's gift to him
and yet he had no occasion for-
the money until she bought the
goods, had she? Why, wouldn't or-
dinary horse sense, ordinary common plain
truths have dictated that he say to her:
“Why, Miss Ging, I will go with you East,
and I will buy the stock and you can go in
and operate the business; I will hold title
to the stock, and you can pay me as fast
as you are a mind to.” Wouldn’t that
have been common sense? Wouldn’t that
have been just? At least, couldn’t he have
the stock I will arrange the matter in such
a way that when the stock is turned over
to you I will at least get a chattel mort-
gage on it?” But no; this woman, of whom
he talks about her sagacity, and all that
sort of thing, business sagacity, was going
into business. Now, he knew she had be-
come, through his machinations, infatuated
with gambling. The testimony of this
woman, the trance medium, shows that
that continued and was in force on the
24th day of November, as much as it ever
was. He himself had led that girl into the
channels of gambling until she had be-
come absolutely unsafe as a business wom-
an, as much as a man. Go through all the
commercial world, the business world, and
if there is one thing that renders unsafe
a man or woman, it is the habit of gamb-
ling. The employe, the clerk, the account-
ant, anyone is discharged from any com-
mercial house at once, as soon as it is
learned that he is a gambler. Because it
is eminently dangerous, and strikes at the
very roots of all sound business, and yet,
knowing the poison of that fascination
upon her, he would have you believe that,
having already loaned her $2,500, he was
to loan her $7,000 more, with practically
no security.
The court here took a recess until 2
o'clock.
Mr. Nye (Resuming.)
May it please your honor and gentlemen
of the jury: There is scarcely a place in the
long, confused, disjointed, embarrassed and
criminal story of this defendant where the
mind might not naturally stop to ask many
questions which, in their very nature, are
puzzling. You know the law, I might say,
almost, of self defense itself, by which we
instinctively protect our own financial and
material rights. And on the very face of
it, the story of the $9,500, all that this man
had, is in itself the most ridiculous of all
the ridiculous. He tells you that he had
previously loaned her $2,500; that that $2,500
loan at different times was evidenced by
three notes which had been introduced
here in testimony—a $500 note and two
$1,000 notes; that this antedated some tipae
the 24th of November; that this $2,500 was
to cut no figure in the $7,000 loan; that it
was due and payable—he immediately
wanted it; yes, he wanted it on the very
Saturday, the 24th of November, when he
consummates this note transaction. What
would plain and honest sense dictate? If
he was seeking to establish a full and bona.
fide consideration for the notes, if he was
seeking to show that these notes were
given for full and valid consideration, and





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 433
he had gone to the trouble of bringing wit-
nesses to witness the note, how natural,
how easy and how honest for him to say
to the companion with whom he was so
intimate and whom he loved so well, “Now,
Kate, I must have the $2.500 which I let you
have, and I shall be obliged to deduct that
from the $7,000; make a note for the $7,000,
and I will surrender to you these prior
notes.” She was not going to use the
money then; she had no occasion at that
particular date to have $7,000 in money.
Ah, gentlemen, the notes themselves are
frauds. And I haven't a particle of doubt,
and I don't believe you have, under the
testimony in this case, the appearance of
the notes themselves in evidence, but what
at least three out of those four of the notes
were drawn that day, and I think the
fourth. Examine that, if you think it nec-
essary, when you retire to consider this
case. Look the whole question over and
see if you can find anything in the trans-
action that will bear the light of honest
investigation.
Gentlemen, Blixt is corroborated by
Witherspoon; he is corroborated by the
testimony of Mr. Eustis and Mr. Doyle,
and it stands practically uncontroverted
that for some strange and suspicious rea-
son this girl, after she had signed this
note, and had it witnessed, must needs
take the money and go into a separate
room and count this cash. Why is that?
Why, if the purpose of it was that it
should stand the test of every question that
might arise in coming years? Why not let
the light of day come in on the transac-
tion and then let this girl count the money
in the presence of the man whom he had
se suspiciously called into the room to sign
this note? Gentlemen, there is no spot or
place in all his story that has one particle
of soundness in it. It is utterly unsound,
dishonest, confused, and the guilty state-
ment of a man embarrassed by such a net-
work of circumstances as was never
woven about a human being before. Then
watch the lady from Saturday to the 24th of
November, after the loan is completed.
The strange and servile way in which
that girl was his obedient tool and servant
from first to last. “Write a note?” Yes,
she would write a note. “Tell Miss Ire-
land not to tell Harry?” Yes, she would do
that. “Tell Goosman not to mention it to
Harry?” Yes, she would do anything on
earth
FOR THE MAN SHE LOVED
and who had deceived her from start to
finish and made her the unconscious dupe
of his designing and criminal purpose.
Without stopping here to recount all
that took place from the 24th of November
to the 3d of December, let me call atten-
tion to the fact that the policies were as-
signed, the papers all completed, and the
titles to the policies completely vested in
the defendant before Dec. 3. That on
Dec. 3, the day of the murder, he had re-
fused to renew his policy for the benefit
of Catherine Ging; but had a few days
previously taken out a policy on his own
life in favor of his mother. A long series
of plans which he thought were so brainy
and deep were well nigh consummated;
the fruit was at his door; the policies were
his; the day has come. This girl who has
so long troubled me—this girl who unques-
tionably was not only his lover, but who
would lay down her life for him, and who,
no doubt, under the testimony of this
case, expected to be his honest and wedded
wife—the day has come; the 3d of Decem-
ber.
As we examine the testimony of some of
the witnesses, I may have occasion to recur
more fully to what took place the week
preceeding the Monday night of the mur-
der. Blixt testifies that between 6 and 7
o'clock in the evening Harry came in with
whisky and they had their talk in the boil-
er room of the basement. What was said
there has already been substantially re-
hearsed time and again here by the wit-
nesses, and I will not take the time now to
repeat it. They had an interview in the
basement at that time. The testimony as
to this interview is corroborated not only
by Mrs. Blixt, by Charles Anderson and
Frank Tucker, but it was scarcely denied
as to opportunity by Harry Hayward him-
self. And, I want to ask you at this time,
who is there from first to last ever with
Claus A. Blixt? Who is the last man seen
with him before he leaves for Kenwood
boulevard? Who is the first man that Hay-
ward sees on his return from the theater?
We have shown the motive, we have
shown the character, we have shown that
this entire case, both prosecution and de-
fense, is all of one piece; all of it con-
sistent with the guilt of Harry Hayward
and none of it consistent with his inno-
cence. And is it not about time that they
trace some man to Claus Blixt—that some
witness, whether he be a Grindall or a
Walker, shall come into court and be able
to testify that there was some suspicious
character at some time at least prior to the
murder seen with Claus A. Blixt?
I will give a short summary of the testi-
mony of Mrs. Blixt. She testified that
Harry Hayward was talking with her hus-
band almost every night for a long time be-
fore that; about three weeks; that he was
there almost every day, especially at night,
and was found there very late; that he was
always talking to Blixt when they were
alone; that long after Blixt closed down at
night they would sit and talk there after
11 o'clock; that she saw them talking to-
gether on Dec. 3—the night of the murder.
When she saw them there were not sitting
down, but were standing up. Then she cor-
roborates Blixt in his statement in regard
to the sewing machine (an important thing
for you to remember); she saw her hus-
band when he went in after his coat, and
she corroborates him as to the clothes that
he wore; that as Blixt went out Harry
came in and went to the pail and got a
drink of water, “I was standing in the
door and he said, ‘where is the boss'; I says
that he just went out; and he says, “Oh,
yes, that is so, I met him,” and he said
something about the sewing machine (he
doesn't deny that himself); “What was
that? He said that he was in
such a hurry—I don't know whether I had
time to answer or not—and I said “Your
father promised me that I could put my
life.” I had asked my husband before he
sewing machine in your flat,” and he said
“put it there and keep it there all of your
went away if he saw Harry to ask him if
he cared if I put the sewing machine up
there.”
Then she goes on to testify that her
husband returned about 10 o'clock and




434
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT:
went to bed; she says “I noticed that
HE HAL, BEEN DRINKING,
and after I had gone to bed and about 11
o'clock, Harry came down in our rooms
(and this circumstance is corroborated by
the testimony of Anderson and also that of
Henry Goosman), and I think practically
admitted by Harry himself. However, you
will remember that. If he did admit it, I
would like to have you recall what sound,
or reasonable, or honest explanation he
made for that trip to the basement of the
Ozark flats when he came back on that
night. “Q. What did he do? A. He hollered
and asked me if Blixt was asleep; before
he came into our room; then he came into
the room and went past the bed and to
the water meter and he says ‘Blixt, did
you notice how this meter leaks nights?"
and then he straightened himself up and
looked towards Blixt. Blixt told him that
my brother-in-law came in and told my
wife that the girl on the fifth floor went
out riding and got hurt, and he seemed to
be in a hurry to tell Harry this.”
Do you see, gentlemen, how natural these
circumstances are interwoven” [t is inot
denied. It was through Anderson that
Mrs. Blixt had learned it. Blixt, of course,
was keeping quiet on the subject. And this
is also corroborated by Anderson. Harry
said “Did she get hurt very bad?” He said,
‘I guess I will go up and see,' and then he
went out; it only took about three or four
minutes—the whole conversation.
After this Harry passed up stairs and
was seen by the officer and Goosman and
made some strange declarations and then
he goes to police headquarters. “Unnatural
deeds do breed unnatural trouble, and in-
fected minds will to their death pillows
discharge their secrets.” I claim there is
no criminal on the face of the earth, even
though he makes no direct confession, but
what will, under the laws of his being and
the laws of God, show confusion, directly
or indirectly betray the condition of his
mind, and disclose to some extent to him
who can read it, the guilt which lies in his
heart.
Explain to me, if you can, the course of
conduct of Harry Hayward during the
hours intervening between his leaving the
theater and the following morning. Is it
consistent with love? Do his actions spring
from that fountain of pure affection which
would guide and control innocent and hon-
est men and Women? Why this stormy
hour before anyone knows the circum-
stances? “Oh, she is done up, I know. I
am done up; she has been murdered for her
money and my $2,000 is gone to hell.” And
for four or five hours, in public, but not to
Blixt and Adry, he has not brains and skill
enough to disguise his confusion and guilt
which rests within his wicked heart.
Ah, gentlemen of the jury, what is this
strange thing called conscience? You will
search the annals of history it seems to me
in vain to find a smaller spark of con-
science than you find in this defendant.
But I do believe that there is some little
spark of conscience in all men, and to
some extent, as naturally as the plant
springs and turns towards the sun; as
naturally as the river rolls towards the
sea, to some extent, I say, it will betray it-
self to others who are capable of reading
it. Lady Macbeth must needs walk by
night in her sleep, and rub her hands as if
to wash them and cry out, “Out, damned
spot; out, I say!" But all Neptune's ocean
will not wash the stain away; all the per-
fumes of Arabia will not sweeten the mur-
derer's hand. Conscience, the greatest gift
of God, the child itself of God, speaking,
working and acting obedient to the same
law by which your system and mine, by
their nature will attempt to throw off dis-
ease, that which is imperfect and that
which is poison; I say, by that same law,
conscience seeks to
THROW OFF ITS LOAD OF GUILT.
Satisfy yourself—explain why he flashed
those letters to the first man he meets?
“I thought that this thing was coming; I
am done up.” Gentlemen, he was not done
up; if he was telling the truth, he was not
done up for a cent. He had a good valid
life insurance policy in force, payable in
60 days for $10,000; and even if he had told
the truth, he had never given but $9,500
for it. He was not done up. He couldn’t
stand there that night without the most
cruel and wicked falsehood on his lips.
“My $2,000, it is gone!” Why $2,000? Ah, he
betrays himself again. Gentlemen, there
was never over $2,000 in that deal. That is
probably just what there was in the whole
transaction, and Harry got it back from
that poor girl when she went out under the
pretension of putting it in the vault and
then came back to him. What did she
come back for, or what did they go into
that room for? “My $2,000.” And he goes
on to rehearse how she, poor girl, had
flashed the money in a restaurant. Do you
remember Spencer's testimony? I think it
was Spencer, but you will remember his
name. He goes on to state that Miss Ging
came in first; it was not until after Harry
came in that Spencer saw the roll. He had
used her as a toy and tool of the moment,
to create in a public place the idea that
she was a very careless woman, so that
when the occasion should arrive he might
have plenty of witnesses to prove her care-
less habits. Oh, gentleman, the untimely
murder of that girl herself scarcely
equalled the means resorted to for months
and months preceding the crime, by this
defendant.
Referring again to Mrs. Blixt's testi-
mony, the question was asked, “What did
he do?” (I think that this is the 11 o’clock
interview.) I will read that. She testifies
that he came between 3 and 4 o’clock into
the basement; 3 or 4 o'clock in the morn-
ing. That Blixt was still asleep, and that
he said, “Blixt, are you asleep?” and he
hollered that loud, twice; that Blixt an-
swered roughly “No;” and that Harry
then said: “Do you know. Blixt, that I
have been down town, and it is her, and
she has been murdered for her money.
It seems as though she has met with
some men, fellows of hers, and they have
murdered her and took her money, and the
$7,000 is gone; I don’t expect I will ever
see a cent of it. People down town say
that it is the most horrible and cold
blooded murder that was ever committed,
and there is not a clue to the murderer to
be found.” And he said: “I have been up
stairs talking to the little girl, trying to
find out something, if she knew something
about it, and she didn't seem to know any-
thing about it, and I don't know what to
do. I don’t know whether I had better go









































OF THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 435
down in the morning and notify the in-
surance people or not,” he said; “and he
talked a great long speech and then went
away.” And then she goes on to say, “I
saw him the next morning in the boiler
room between 8 and 9 o'clock. I saw him
in the afternoon also when he was tell-
ing Blixt how they had questioned him,”
etc. And then she goes on to testify to
the condition and appearance of her hus-
band for several weeks prior to the mur-
der. She testifies, if I remember correctly,
and it was not covered by categorical
questions—it may have been an oversight
—but Mr. Blixt testifies in that converso-
tion, he said: “Well, the fact is, I don’t
care so much about the girl as I do about
the money.” I don’t recall that Harry
Hayward denied that upon the witness
stand.
Now, referring to the testimony of An-
derson, he stated that he worked at firing
from 7 in the evening until 7 in the morn-
ing; and testifies that he saw
BLIXT AND HARRY TOGETHER
in the basement. Then the question was
asked the witness: “Did you ever see them
make any attempt to conceal from you
anything that was said or to keep you
from hearing?” and the witness answered,
“Well, I noticed once or twice they kind of
slacked up on talking when I came pass-
ing through there.” Then he goes on to
state that on Saturday night preceding
the murder Harry came down there and
asked Blixt if he had done the job, and
then goes on to corroborate the testimony
of the witness who testified in regard
to the iron. He testified that Hans Barlow
was there. Then that Harry took up the
pieces and looked at them and said, “Well,
that will do,” and walked towards the
elevator, and Blixt followed him. Then
the question was asked: “Do you remem-
ber whether you saw Harry Sunday
night?” and he answered, “I don’t remem-
ber.” Then the question was asked, “How
about Monday night?” And Monday night,
“Yes, I saw Harry somewhere around half
past 6. He was with Blixt, and I saw
Blixt at the time he went out, and I met
Harry coming in; I think it was 15 or 20
minutes past 7 that Blixt went away. I
was expecting Frank Tucker to leave the
elevator at any minute then.” Ques. “Did
you see Harry?” Ans. “Yes, Harry was
standing in the door and they kind of
talked a little and Blixt then passed on.
Then Harry cº-ºne shortly after that and
got on the elevator and went down in the
basement; he stopped to take a drink
of water. And the first thing he said was,
‘Where is the boss?” and my sister said,
‘Didn't you see him?” and he said, ‘Yes, I
just saw him go out and he said some-
thing about moving a sewing machine,
what was it?' I saw Harry again about
10 o'clock (that should be, gentlemen, about
11 o’clock); about 11 o'clock I had taken
Henry Goosman and the officer up to the
second floor and then I went down again
and Harry was there. He came to the ele-
vator and asked if I had got any fresh
water down in the basement, and I said:
*Yes."
“Now, gentlemen, I will not stop to read
all this testimony. It is corroboration of
Blixt as to most of the details in regard
to what transpired, both preceding and
after Blixt's departure on that night.
Now, in regard to the testimony of
Frank Tucker, a truthful and honest boy;
it is substantially a complete corrobora-
tion of these other witnesses in regard to
the circumstances of the meeting of Blixt
and Harry and what transpired. Now,
gentlemen of the jury, before we bring
this all down to the question of Harry's
movements on the ſhisht of Dec. 3, let us
go back and bring up to Dec. 3, another
witness conspicuous in this trial, Adry
Hayward. -
There are many strange things in this
world, and the condition which prevails in
this family may be among the strangest
known to man. I realize the strength of
the ties of kindred. I realize that God has
planted in the human breast that spirit of
protection, not alone to self, but to reia-
tives, to brother, to father, to mother, or
to child or to wife. But I want to call
attention to this thing: That if Harry
Hayward is at the bottom of this crime,
he violated a greater law than Adry Hay-
ward violated when he testified against his
brother; and the violation of the lesser law
may be auxiliary and illustrative of the
importance and vitality of the greater law.
I do not care to indulge in any unfair or
unjust criticism as to what the evidence
would warrant, and hardly that, as to the
other members of the Hayward family.
For the old, grief-stricken father and
mother, I have nothing but the deepest
compassion and sympathy; for the mother
I would gladly see some rift in the
DARK AND IMPENETRABLE CLOUD;
and for the old palsied father, whatever
might have been his life or history, I
would to God that life’s sunset may come
with sweeter and more beautiful touch as
he enters upon the valley towards which
we are all marching. But I call your at-
tention to this, gentermen: Adry Hayward,
after all, was the boy that the old man
trusted. Adry was, after all, imperfect
and bad, if you say that he is, as he may
have been, he was the son that W. W.
Hayward trusted his business with, his
finances, his collections of rents, and the
keeping of his accounts. Eh, more than
that, gentlemen; Adry Hayward is him-
self the boy that Harry Hayward trusted;
trusted him with whatever of money he
had, to keep in his vault; talked and com-
municated to him all of his business, he
says; withholding nothing from him, from
first to last, of a business character or na-
ture. Ah, gentlemen, the line which dis-
tinguished the false from the mainly true,
at least, is perceptible to honest minds.
If there were any stability in the younger
generation of the Haywards at all, it was
in Adry. He had probably worked 100 days
in his life to Harry’s one. He had prob-
ably been, generally speaking, employed in
a legitimate and trusted capacity. Harry,
scarcely ever. Now, gentlemen, whatever
of bad blood there may be, I leave for you
to determine. Whatever of feeling may lie
beneath the testimony of Adry Hayward,
it is not my province to belittle nor to de-
ceive you. You must weigh this whole
question between Adry and Harry. But
let me call your attention to one landmark
in this case. We could not as a part of
our direct case have brought it out, but
the defense brought it out for us, on the
cross-examination of Adry Hayward. That





36 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT:
was, gentlemen of the jury, that Adry
Hayward, whether he were wicked or not,
was troubled and alarmed, and on the 30th
day of November, Friday before the mur-
der, he sought refuge and counsel from an
old and trusted friend of the family—old
Elder Stewart, a landmark in this city for
many years; a lawyer before I was born;
a man somewhat, perhaps, eccentric in his
habits, but a man of careful and shrewd
business principles and sagacity; the coun-
sellor and adviser of the Hayward family
for a good many years. Where should
Adry Hayward go to a better person than
to Elder Stewart? It is in testimony that he
gave the alarm. It was so incredible that
Elder Stewart could take no stock in it;
told him to go back and tell him to
KILL A DOZEN DRESSMAKERS,
or something of that kind. “He is a
scoundrel, but he would not murder that
Woman.”
That is a landmark in this case, and
that you know, if you have been able to
understand the testimony in this case,
was about the first clue the state got to
the secret of this whole transaction. The
old elder sat here in the court room day
after day. It was not in our power or
province to bolster Adry by his testimony,
but it was for them to put the old man on
the stand if they thought he would deny
it. Ah, they knew it was as true as today
precedes tomorrow. That several days be-
fore that murder occurred Adry, true to
some instinct of honesty at least, had gone
to his old and aged friend, and told him
the danger ahead. I am not going to stop
either to read Adry's testimony out in
length concerning this terrible event of the
30th of November between him and Harry.
Gentlemen, he has not only told the truth,
but he has been corroborated by circum-
stances, landmarks stronger than any tes-
timony which can ever proceed from hu-
man lips.
The Stewart circumstance! Ah, yes, and
some other circumstances:
The poor tottering old man stood upon
the stand and attempted to assist one son
by contradicting the other. The old man
whose memory you can readily see is al-
most as defective as a little child's; a man
who could place no other circumstance or
day hardly in the calendar, this man at-
tempted to testify that he was in the of—
fice at the time at which Adry claims the
difficulty occurred between him and Har-
ry. Why, gentlemen, an honest, plain, hard-
working paper hanger, Griffin, who had
worked for Hayward, and who had occa-
sion to remember that on that day, the
last day of the month, and fixed it by cir-
cumstances which are plain to you, was in
the office to see the old gentleman concern-
ing some of his own business relations
with him. He says the old gentleman was
not there. The testimony of that man Grif-
fin, and the testimony of W. W. Hayward,
if you weigh it in the right scale, cor-
roborated the story of Adry Hayward. For,
it is a maxim in the law of weighing evi-
dence that he who can discern the false
will always make the false pay tribute to
the truth. A false, or fictitious defense in
a criminal case intensifies and adds a hun-
dred-fold to the state's case in any prose-
cution. Unless explanations can be made
along the lines of truth and ingenuousness,
the halting and stanmering and lying wit-
ness but adds to the glory and the strength
of an -
IMMORTAL, PURE TRUTH,
My friends may remember on the other
side that I was not in court through Mr.
Hayward's entire testimony, Harry Hay-
ward's, but so far as he was examined be-
fore I left him, Harry forgot to swear that
the old man was in that room on the 20th
day of November. Now, if I am wrong,
correct me. That is my recollection; and as
I am passing, I will call your attention
also to another omission of Harry Hay-
Ward, unless it came up in testimony
which I did not hear; and that was that
he failed to swear that his doors were left
locked that night of the 3d of December.
Gentlemen of the jury, as to the cir-
cumstances of that awful scene on the 30th
of November, it seems to me that there
is no honest mind can weigh the testimony
for a moment without seeing that Adry's
testimony is absolutely true.
The entire testimony in this case is all
of one web and woof of circumstances,
and I contend to him who can weigh and
understand the testimony of the witnesses
for the prosecution and defense, taken all
together, in the vast plane of this case,
there is not on either side or anywhere in
the last landscape a single circumstance
that does not directly or indirectly cor-
roborate the testimony of that man, Claus
Blixt, upon the witness stand. -
Well, gentlemen of the jury, Adry has
come and gone from the witness stand.
He has given his testimony. You know
too well already the circumstances which
preceded his arrest and his final and most
reluctant disclosure of what he knew.
Gentlemen, that appeared and it was true.
I think he said upon the witness stard,
and I know that he did in the office, I
think he did, referring to that time when
he was in my office until a late hour, he
repeatedly said that he knew nothing and
that if he did know anything against his
brother he would never tell it. That was
his spirit and purpose then. JBut when it
was first found that he had guilty knowl-
edge, and when under the wise, it seems to
me, and prudent and honest advice of old
Elder Stewart, and of his family, Adry's
family, his wife and her family, he thought
and believed there was no escape but for
him to tell it all.
And upon the witness stand he has told
it. And he has been goaded and tortured
with imputations of insanity, with imputa-
tions of being a highway robber, a highway-
man, with imputations of an incendiary,
with imputations of almost all horrid and
terrible crimes known to the catalogue:
and it was under that cruel spurring and
goading that he, no doubt, manifested more
feeling in this case than he should have
done to some extent. I regret it, but I
doubt whether any young man under the
same circumstances would have been less
terrible, or more fair. But as to what he
testifies to, gentlemen, it is off of the same
piece of all the rest of this case. It is a
secret and terrible betrayal of a wicked
mind by a proposition of money-making
where human life should not stand in the
way so long as that of a dog. It is the
same old story; the proposition to make
money. “Would you kill a woman for
$2,000?” Suggestions about a hackman, a
fat hackman. Why, gentlemen, we never








































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
437
found that man until almost the last day
of the state's direct case. And sure enough
Adry, if he was a liar, had invented and
placed him with an ingenuity that no man
on earth could ever have invented. He and
Blixt kept separate and apart, in the testi-
mony in this case, showing that from first
to last Blixt and Adry had no intimate
relations whatever, or hardly knew each
other. Yet these two men simultaneously
gave to the public a disclosure of a char-
acter which we know is that of Harry Hay-
ward, telling the same class of story, the
same class of propositions; of his manipu-
lations with the wonan and with the Hannel
property, and the dealings with E. S. Jones
& Co.; the suggestion to make some money;
the suggestion to have Adry a witness to
the note, which he declined, and his talk
about the consideration; giving Adry the
wink, he said, “Well, you know, I have
let her have money before;” the proposi-
tion as to conscience; the remark to Adry
now he had been schooled in these things.
On that
FATAL ANRO AWIFUL NIGHT
before the rising or the sun he says, “Adry,
never mention it again; in a week's time I
will think nothing about it.” “I am so
schooled to this, so used to it, that in a
week's time I shall think nothing whatever
about it.” Well, finally he says that Harry
told him that he had got enough of him-
he was no good, and all that sort of thing;
he had a man that was; he testified to the
circumstance of his having a roll of bills,
saw the $100 bill on the outside and all that
sort of thing; and yet made no mention of
the note transaction; and I will call your
attention also to the circumstance that
Harry says when he and Blixt went down
to get the valve, he had some $100 bills-
that was his language. Blixt said he had
a $100 bill. Blixt did not notice it. Ah,
gentlemen, Harry Hayward had in his
pocket every dollar of that money that was
flashed at the note transaction; pawning
rings to make up money, standing his cou-
sin off for the payment of money, the re-
tention of which was a breach of trust
and embezzlement, figuring and scheming
to raise $7,000 for that woman, when the
$2,500 should be taken out of it. She used
up $9,500; yet after ail he testifies that he
goes down after the valve and he has his
hundred dollar bills in his possession. He
did not Say how many. Adry's
testimony tends to show that these notes
were made that day. There is not any
question about it. You remember his in-
quiry about ink. He swore there were
three; he did not know but four of the
notes were made that day. “Saturday he
wanted me for a witness to the notes. I
would not be a witness. I went out col-
lecting. Gave him some large bills for a
package of one dollar bills and giving a
draft.” Mr. Hayward was a fine manipula-
tor of cash. He could take a few hundred
dollar bills from the City Bank today and
denominations of money and get them
changed again. It was a scheme cropping
out in this case to give the impression that
at the necessary time he would have lots
of money. But the truth was he was at
the end of his rope financially, and the girl
whom he had made to believe that he loved
had become a load upon him, and he had
a double motive in this murder. It had
reached a time, gentlemen, when that poor
girl must of necessity call him to account
and expose him to the public unless some-
thing was done. He foresaw it weeks pre-
ceding, and he said, “I must get rid of her.
and while I am doing it I can make $10,000
in the life insurance.”
How he admonishes Adry to go to the
theater, to be somewhere where he can
prove where he is, the circumstance being
corroborated by Adry's wife; that he was
there for some purpose. What was it? To
get the $5? Nonsense! He did not get that
particularly; he would get that during bus-
iness hours. Gentlemen, he was going to
have Adry understand that he had in his
network a plan so arranged that the
innocent as well as the guilty might suffer
by being involved with him in the trans-
action unless they should lend their aid
and support to the concealment of his
crime. He called for the $5, and said: “You
better go to the theater tonight.” Adry
said, “Why?” He said: “Because some-
thing is going to happen tonight.” I said:
“No, Harry, you must not do it.” He said
to me: “I won’t say he whispered, but
spoke low, and said, ‘It has to be done;
don’t bother me; take your wife and go to
the theater; go away from here.' He went
down stairs. It is the only time I have
ever seen him excited. He was excited that
night some; he did not eat supper. He said,
“If you do not go to the theater will you
go into my flat about 9:30 and see if my
revolver is under my pillow.' I said, ‘I
won't go near your flat.” He said: ‘Will
you put up the curtain to the window on
the corner to show if there is any unusual
excitement on the corner of Thirteenth
and Hennepin about that time?' Who cor-
roborates Blixt in regard to the circum-
stance of Blixt coming into Harry's room
after he returns? And I may as well men-
tion that right here, and discuss that feat-
ure of it as I go along.
In the first place, as I remember it,
Harry has not testified that he locked his
door; but, granting that he did, or grant-
ing that it was an oversight, Adry knows
that some one goes into that room; Adry
swears that at a later hour in the morn-
ing, when they were in, I think in Harry's
room, or somewhere in the flat, Harry
cleans his revolver. There is not much dust
in it, but a little. One shot has been fired.
Now, that circumstance, important in this
case, bear in mind, is strongly corrobo-
rated by the testimony of Mr. Eustis and
Mr. Doyle, and uncontradicted by Harry
to this effect; that he was very prompt and
anxious, for some cause or other, to show
them the next day how clean the cylinder
of that revolver was, and held it up to the
light. Take the testimony of Blixt, then
of Adry, of Mr. Eustis and Mr. Doyle,
and it ought to satisfy any mind that Blixt.
testified to the truth in that hespect.
He said: “It is just like picking up
money.” I made the remark, ‘That is ter-
rible, Harry.” He said: ‘Don’t ever speak
about it to me again,” and so forth; in a
Week's time I won’t think of it.”
Now, gentlemen, while I am on his tes-
timony, and I have got to hasten over
this, for I am determined to complete
what I shall say to you today, it is very
doubtful if I will be able to be here to-
morrow. I will call attention to the con-
versation which Adry refers to at the jail
some two or three days after the homi-




438 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
cide. Now, gentlemen, the immaterial cir-
cumstances cut little figure. Twelve honest
men going upon the witness stand and
testifying to a transaction from their own
honest memory will vary, always vary,
particularly on immaterial matters. Now,
I submit to you, gentlemen, from what
you know of this case, what you have
heard of the testimony, Harry was inclined
to sound Adry a little in jail. The gist and
spirt of it was that Harry mistrusted that
they might be pumping Blixt pretty hard,
and he says: ‘‘Well, I guess Blixt will
stick; besides, I am not sure Blixt did it.
It may be a man in New York; but, say,
I am more afraid of you . than anybody
else.” Now, gentlemen, weigh that cir-
cumstance in the light of all the circum-
stances which surround this case, and all
the testimony, and I have no doubt you
will conclude at once that Adry's testi-
mony is true in that respect.
The testimony of Goosman, the testi-
mony of Gittleson, Davis, the man who
represented E. S. Jones & Co., James Gar-
rity and Moulton; these witnesses I will
not stop to consider, nor their testimony.
I will call your attention now to one fur-
ther thing. The last testimony of any
declaration that
CATHERINE GING EVER MADE
in her 11te time in the city, that is before
she took the buggy at the West Hotel, is
most significant, indeed. It was made to
a friend, a lady friend who had been in-
timately acquainted with her. They had
passed some conversation together in Hale
& Thomas’. A reference had been made
to “Harry” which you will recollect. Mrs.
Hazelton, thinking that it referred to Har-
ry Mains, and Miss Ging thinking and fix-
ing in her mind Harry Hayward, you will
remember what that conversation was.
After some time, I think it was about 5:30,
they started out on Nicollet avenue to go to
Sixth street, and there those two friends
separated, and naturally obedient to the
laws of friendship, Mrs. Hazelton says
“Come up to dinner with me.” She says
“No, I cannot, I have a business engage-
ment with Mr. Hayward.” The last word
that the testimony in this case shows that
she uttered except what she may have said
to Goosman as she took the buggy, or to
Blixt as she took the fatal ride–Ah, gen-
tlemen, thank God, in one respect thał
silent voice has spoken; and back two
hours preceding the time that Harry Hay-
ward puts Blixt into that buggy with Cath-
erine Ging, she discloses, not knowing the
perfidity of the plan then, that she has a
business engagement with Mr. Hayward.
Is there any evidence from first to last in
all this case that she knew any other Hay-
ward than Harry? Not a particle; and she
did not; unless it might be to know them
merely by sight, but no acquaintance what-
ever.
Now, gentlemen, I want to discuss a little
bit at this time the question of time. Let
us get this evidence clearly before us. We
come now to the evening itself at which
this terrible tragedy is enacted. Hayward.
and waterman and Fisher testify to their
going, the three of them together, from
Fisher's cigar store at about 6:30, and ar-
riving at the Ozark about 6:45. I don’t
know as there is much significance in it.
I will tell you one thing, there is some-
thing crooked in that testimony. D. A.
McArthur stands like the rook of Gibraltar,
and can be trusted forever as to the identity
of that man Harry Hayward, and to have
ing seen him pass the West Hotel towards
Sixth street prior to 6 o'clock. What the
movements of Harry Hayward were from
6 o'clock, or from perhaps 5:30, maybe
even prior to that, down to the time at
which he says he came to the Ozark is a
question that I cannot explain, nor can
you. But pass that over and take him at
his word; and take Fisher and Waterman
at their word; and if that is true, Harry
reaches the Ozark Block at about 6:45.
That is the testimony. He further testifies
that it was about 7:45 before he finally left
for Mr. Bartleson's. Gentlemen, there is
an hour for Harry Hayward to account for.
Let us take now that point at which the
testimony must naturally converge, if at
all, and what would relate to the time of
taking supper. Now, let us see what the
testimony in that regard is. Hayward of
course himself testifies, I don’t remember
that he testified to the exact time when he
went in to the supper table, but he does
testify that it was exactly 7:22 when he left
the supper table. Well, he testifies that he
thinks it was about 7:05 when he went to
the boarding house, about 7:05, and 7:22
when he leaves the supper table. At this
point more than at any other it was im-
portant for
HARRY HAYWARD TO
FALSELY.
and that he did it I think you will have
no doubt.
Now, let us look at the other witnesses;
let us take them up in substance briefly.
Harry's mother testified that she was not
well; thinks she went to supper about 6:45,
and may have remained as much as 15
minutes. She don’t know that she did.
Harry was not there when she was there.
W. W. Hayward, the father, corroborates
the mother. So that Harry upon that ques-
tion gets no help from either of those wit-
nesses. Thomas Waterman thinks they got
to the Ozark about 6:45. Harry went into
the Ozark; he went to the boarding house.
Witness met Miss Vetter, and she was go-
ing to supper. He was not five minutes,
probably not that long, getting ready for
supper; went to supper about 6:50; says
Harry came in shortly after. Then he,
Waterman, must have left the dining room
about 7:15; he does not know whether
Harry was there when he left or not.
That man Waterman says he doesn't know.
He thinks not. He knows he was not
there. But take his testimony as it is.
He leaves at 15 minutes past 7, and he
don't know whether Harry had gone or
not. Fisher testifies that they got to the
Ozark about 6:45. Harry went to the
Ozark; he went to the boarding house.
There were two or three minutes that he
was in the room brushing his hair, etc.,
only remaining about six minutes: and
there remained 10 to 12 minutes; then it
was about 7 when he left. He says Harry
was not there while he was there. He
heard his voice, he thinks, about 20 minutes
after in the hall, he thinks. Miss Vetter
testifies she left Harry Legg's store at
6:30, went home to the boarding house,
took in ºinutes to walk home, which made
it 6:40, then she was five or six minutes
preparing for dinner, which made it 6:45
TESTIE Y.






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 439
or 6:46 when she went in the dining room;
no one in the dining room when she went
in. This contradicts Mrs. Hayward, the
old lady, and her husband to some ex-
tent. Fisher came and went while she was
at the table. She testifies that it was, she
thinks, 5 or 10 minutes after 7 when she
left the dining room. Harry came in while
she was there, and was in the dining room
when she left. Lucy testified that he left
his office at 5:30, between 5:30 and 6, ar-
rived at ahe Ozark at 6, perhaps a little
after, that he went to supper from 25 min-
utes to a quarter to 7; can recall that no
one was in there when he went in ; says
he usually takes about 30 minuaes for his
supper. Hayward was not at supper when
he went in, was at the table when he left,
which to the best of his judgment was
from 5 to 10 minutes past 7.
Now, gentlemen, allow for all honest
variations of time, and there are two
things that witnesses never agree upon be-
cause they are matters of estimate, and
that is time and distance, unless actual
observations are made; allow for all that;
allowing that most of the witnesses are
ºriends of Harry Hayward’s and would
feel inclined uaturally, as is human na-
ture, naturally would favor him in an
hour of emergency; taking that altogether
there is not a single witness that leaves
Harry Hayward in that dining room later
than 10 minutes past 7. And if you make a
conservative and fair and honest estimate
of the testimony it was undoubtedly a lit-
tle earlier than that.
But what else? Ah, gentlemen, Mrs.
Mathes and her husband were here to tell,
whose testimony is here and whose testi-
mony I have not before me; you will re-
member it. But, gentlemen,
THEIR TESTIMONY IS THE SEQUEL
to the testimony of all the other witnesses
upon this point, the question of time, anu.
that was that Harry Hayward ate a hur-
ried and nervous supper, and was not in
there probably more than five or seven
minutes, and, according to their judg-
ment, left the dining room no later than
7:08. Gentlemen, consider that carefully.
That is the summing up of the testimony
on this question. It is the whole testi-
mony. And Gentlemen, at about 7 o'clock
and 8 minutes, after a hurried and nervous
supper, Harry Hayward left that dining
room.
Gentlemen, I will proceed with as much
deliberation as possible from this out.
Mr. and Mrs. Mathes testified that he
gave a sort of a lurch as he went out of
the dining room; that he ate nurriedly and
disappeared hurriedly. Where did Harry
Hayward go? He might have gone to
Thirteenth and Hawthorn, just about a
block from the Ozark, or to some other
point further up, we know not; but at
some point, undoubtedly not far from the
Ozark flats, he met that girl. She had left
the West Hotel at 7:08—he unquestionably
had an appointment to meet her at some
designated spot. He takes the carriage,
and that is the first time that the top is
lifted. He rides down to Hawthorn, Haw-
thorn to Lyndale, down Lyndale to Ken-
wood boulevard, where M. D. Wilson saw
them at about 7:15. That is not all. It
takes him some little time to apprise the
poor girl of his plan, there may be a
change in the plan—some explanation has
got to be made, that some one has to
drive her out; what the scheme is, whether
it be green goods or some other swindling
operation that he has got to decoy this
girl, Hayward only knows. But they are
seen by M. D. Wilson on the IXenwood
boulevard. Wilson passes them about two
blocks beyond the intersection of Lyndale
and Kenwood; he passes them and that is
the last he sees of them; they turn and
come back. Explanations are made, un-
questionably. Whether he leaves the girl
at that exact spot or not, it is immaterial;
my theory of this is perhaps that this poor
girl drove back and forth there for some
time; Harry leaves her and crosses the
vacant lot, the path, and about 7:20 he is
seen by George Jenks, who stands on the
rear of a street car on Hennepin and Hu-
ron, hastening along towards the Ozark;
he is then going after Blixt. He has had
his meeting before supper with Blixt—he
has put the whisky into Blixt—he has
taken his hurried supper, arranged with
Miss Ging, has been seen by Mr. Wilson
and George Jenks, and is running back to
the Ozark after Blixt.
Now, gentlemen of the jury, it has not
been disputed in this case that Mr. Wilson
told officers the next day after this oc-
curred and when he saw Harry at the sta-
tion, that to the best of his knowledge that
it was Harry whom he saw in that buggy.
The truth was, so far as I am concerned,
and I will be frank about it, I never want
to put a man on the witness stand who
does not want to tell me what he knows
and what the truth is, and M. D. Wilson
did as stubbornly refuse to tell me
whether he knew the person in the buggy
with Miss Ging as he did the defense. I
believed it to be true, because I believed
on the following day the man, I don't know
him personally, but I believe on the fol-
lowing day he would certainly have given
it honestly to the officers, the best rendem-
brance he had of the transaction and who
the person was. And I believe that
if it should be known, on rebuttal I could
have put Mr. Wilson back on the stand
and taken my chances of his sticking to
the story that he had told the officers the
day after the murder, but I did not have
an occasion to do it, because the defense
put him on and made him their own wit-
ness, and on cross-examination he swore
that
THE MAN IN THE BUGGY
with Miss Ging was Harry Hayward to
the best of his judgment and knowledge.
I was not here, gentlemen, when Mr.
Jenks testified. You have seen him upon
the witness stand; personally some of you
may know him. I know him, and I regard
him as a man of integrity, of clear intel-
lect, a careful man, and a man who would
carefully weigh his words in an important
case like this before he would imperil any
person upon the question of identification,
and his testimony is absolutely reliable in
every respect.
Gentlemen of the jury, Harry returns to
the Ozark; that brings him there at-Mr.
Jenks saw him at about 7:20 as near as he
could estimate the exact time, and it tallies
in point of time with Mr. Wilson, and it
exactly tallies with the witnesses in regard
to when he returned to the Ozark, which
is somewhere near 7:25 or 7:30–a little be-
fore 7:30; a little before the elevator boys






440 -
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
|
-
changed, as I remember. Corroborated
again these men are, by his return to the
Ozark.
Now, gentlemen, from that time on how
Harry Hayward puts in his time you can
readily see—most of it at least. He has
but mighty little “time to sell;” he must be
seen by as many persons and in as many
different places as possible within the
shortest range of time; and he is. He goes
to Miss Ireland's room, goes to his mother's
room, goes down in the basement and has
a conversation with Mrs. Blixt—I don’t
know how many trips he makes to his
mother's room—he goes to Adry's room,
which Adry thinks was in the neighbor-
hood of 23 minutes to 8, somewhere along
there; and my theory is, under the evi-
dence in the case, that Blixt, drunk and
stupefied, having had 20 minutes—quite a
lapse of time—for the liquor to work in his
mind, remained out on Hennepin avenue
a longer time waiting for Harry than he
is now under the impression he did; he
thinks he might have been there five or six
minutes, if I recollect his testimony right.
I think Harry puts in quite a little time in
the Ozark, I think he makes all of his
preparations, even for the theater—his
dressing, all of his arrangements—appears
to be at home and carries the impression
with his people there that he is in a very
natural condition and that he is merely
dressing for pleasure and recreation. Be
that as it may, it is a matter for you to
estimate.
Time and distance, I say, we cannot al-
ways calculate by judgment. There
must be accurate observations taken.
If Adry has it right, about the time he
saw him, it may have been, well, nigh onto
15 minutes of 8 before he goes out there
and follows Blixt down; it may have been
20 minutes; it may have been more and it
may have been less; no human being can
tell, and no human being is expected to
tell. But they hastened down to Kenwood
and Harry puts Blixt into the buggy and
starts them off. My own view of it is, un-
der the testimony, that by the time Blixt is
put in the buggy it is crowding along
pretty close towards 8 o'clock, and that
Harry must of necessity have made very
rapid movements from that time on in or-
der to get Miss Bartleson and
go to the theater. That the local-
ities which he describes, in which he was,
Fifteenth and Laurel, and those places,
was unnatural for him to be in in going
from the Ozark to Mr. Bartleson's, and
can only be accounted for by the fact that
he was making a hurried departure from
kenwood boulevard, but in a more direct
line to Charles Bartleson's and was in a
great haste, almost ready to run when old
Mrs. Hale saw him at Twelfth and Chest-
nut. “Time to sell.” Gentlemen, that was
the time that he
DID NOT HAVE “TIME TO SELL.”
I may be mistaken in these matters. He
may have gone back to the Ozark, and he
may for the purpose of preparation, as he
has in everything else, seeking to be seen
in different places, have gone out of the
way from the Ozark to Mr. Bartleson's.
But, in any event, gentlemen, he was in a
tremendous hurry, and from the time ne
leaves the boarding house supper table un-
til the time he reaches Bartleson's house,
he was in great haste and on the run.
Now, gentlemen, I must proceed and be
brief on many of those matters that are
important, and upon which I might be ex-
pected to spend more time; but I am going
to hurriedly sketch this case and leave it
to you tonight, so far as the state is con-
cerned, trusting to you to weigh all the
salient points in the testimony which I
have omitted necessarily for want of time
and strength, because I am certain I could
not hold out to speak tomorrow.
Now, gentlemen, turn for a moment to
the history of this trial. You watched the
tide of battle as it came and went; you
watch the contention of counsel, and, by
the way, all personal thrusts are no doubt
a mistake; they are mere incidents of the
trial and they have no part or lot in the
administration of justice—they are always
to be regretted. And I might take the oc-
casion to say here that while I have and
will still more criticize the character of
this defense, I insist it is Harry Hayward's
defense and not his counsel's. Valiantly
and heroically, under the storm of fire and
the avalanche of testimony that no power
under heaven can answer, his brave and
gallant counsel have stood heroically by
their client. He made the defense; he was
the smart man; he was the man who had
the plan—and he had so figured and so es-
tablished himself that before his present
counsel were in this case, it became neces-
sary for any lawyer to simply adopt his
defense and make the best of it. And if
anything unfair, or anything criticizeable
has occurred on the part of the defense, so
far as I am concerned, I am wiiling to at-
tribute it to the defendant himself; if his
counsel has taken any part or lot in it, it
has been through that zeal and fidelity
which perhaps every lawyer owes to his
client in capital cases. We all may have
our different standards of legal and moral
ethics; I think Tom Broham carries it to
the extreme and holds that a counsel
might do anything and everything his
wicked and criminal client might do to
save his neck. A different standard pre-
vails today under the enlightened and
christian justice of this afternoon of the
Nineteenth century—it will never do.
I am indebted for the many courtesies ex-
tended by the counsel for the defense; and
if at any time and place the learned coun-
sel has dipped his spear in the poison of
injustice that he might strike with more
deadly effect, I attribute it to his zeal for
his client, and not to any choice of his.
He is my friend; I prize his friendship; I
prize his large and splendid intellect—his
genius, his magninimity, his human sym:
pathy, instincts noble and grand, and
his mind is a tower of intellectual
greatness. And I have nothing but the
highest regard for the honorable and able
gentlemen who have assisted him. When
I quit this conflict I shall quit it a larger
man, larger intellectually, because of a
contest with brighter and stronger minds.
But, gentlemen of the jury, what has
been the history of this defense? Go back
to the early days of the trial; see that long
and tedious cross examination of pretty
nearly an hour of our first witness, Er-
hardt. How my friend struggled for hours
to
SCARE SOMEBODY OUT OF THE
BRUSH
down there—to show that somebody else






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
441
might have been there. It was a cross
examination which at that stage of the
trial showed that he himself was in in-
penetrable and thick darkness—he evident-
ly intended at that point of inquiry to lay
great stress upon a theory somewhere. The
veil, gentlemen, was produced, with great
gusto.
At one stage of the trial they produced
a witness here to show something about
some blood spots on the ice. It was swept
away by the plain and honest testimony
of one who shoveled it from the spot in
the road where the body lay.
Look at the cruel torturing, almost, of
this man Blixt concerning Cunningham.
Why, gentlemen, there was a scene in
this trial you can never forget. A man
with less Christianity in his blood and
heart would have seethed and boiled under
the insult of such questions. Why, a wild-
eyed man by the name of Cunningham is
exhibited here in court and poor Blixt is
asked if he knows him. Why, ‘‘No, I never
saw him.” “Why, didn't you take two men
or three men—a man by the name of King,
and a man by the name of Lund there,
and a man by the name of Hayes there,
and pay their board?” Question after ques-
tion was fired at the unsuspicious man unex-
pectedly, and finally they drew this great
register out—Cunningham's register—to
show that Blixt had registered a name
upon it. Have you heard anything about
this important feature in the case since?
How they paraded the satchel full of
bloody clothes that was found in the
woods by Sheriff Ege. Of course that man
Cunningham was going to come in and
identify those clothes as Mr. Hayes'—as
belonging to a man by the name of
Hayes. I suppose the defense learned then,
or found out that it was true, that we
could prove by four or five young men,
reputable young men of the best families
in the city, how the clothes came there,
and Cunningham and Hayes, and the false
and uncertain theory of Hayes, vanished
in the thin air and we have not since
heard anything about them—gone. And
where is Cunningham 2 And where is
Hayes? And poor Blixt is over in yonder
cell; he has proven that he will face any-
thing in his life. But they concluded not
to pursue such a wild and false theory.
Now, gentlemen, at that time the de-
fense could not have expected to use the
Grindall theory; those two things would
not work. Hayes and Grindall did not
correspond at all in their description.
Hence it is that Grindall is certainly a
more modern invention than that of Cun-
ningham.
How they questioned Blixt about his
being a member of a gang—a gang. No
gang on earth but the gang of toilers
from whose bone and sinews all the
mighty resources of this earth must come.
No gang that he knew but Harry Hay-
ward; he did not know who his gang was—
Harry was the only one he knew.
Why, that plot of Cunningham, that
was laid back in November–Nov. 2–that
antedated the note transaction and the
loan. Well, anyhow, that vanished.
Look at their cross-examination of Adry;
what did it mean? Why, my friend com-
menced by saying you have got a revolver
just like Harry—what did that mean?
Why, that was an innuendo that “You are
in this murder,” but no proof followed
it. He called his attention to his pointed
shoes. Any evidence in this case, any sub-
stantial evidence, anything that counsel
will dare claim that points to Adry as con-
nected with this murder, beyond that
which he admits having knowledge of prior
to its commission?
STILL DRIETING AND TOSSED
upon a certain sea, with a guilty client;
above him a dark and impenetrable cloud,
from beneath which he shall never rise
until God in his mercy shall forgive him,
my gallant, able and brave friends, in
storm and night, in pitiful and abject
want, have failed to show anything in his
behalf. With naked poles upon the ship,
beaten and tossed by current, wind and
waves from first to last, and finally when
my friend Smith opens the case he begs
the state to get out of his light and an-
nounces what has been patent and appar-
ent for three weeks—that the defense has
no theory. Get out of his light! let him get
out of the darkness of his own client, the
impenetrable and damnable cloud of crime
which hovers over him, and which the
world sees and knows, and which you see
and know. It is not the state that is in
his light; it is the mountain top of truth,
insurmountable. Confused, driven from
every barricade out into the open field, on
the rock in the flight of guilt.
Why, gentlemen of the jury, if there is
one thing more than another that shows
the extremities to which the defense has
been driven in this case, it is all this talk
and parade about Adry's insanity, and the
cross-examination to attempt to prove him
insane. What did it mean? It meant a
desperate effort to do away with his testi-
mony on the theory of insanity. Well, I
don’t know to what extent I might be per-
mitted to comment upon it, I pass it as it
is. The court held him a competent wit.
ness, and the soundness of his mind is a
question for you, the deceision of which I
have no question about, any more than I
have of any other witness in this case.
Harrassed, goaded, tormented by the
lance and spear of truth, they even go
in desperation further than that to show
that Adry is a highwayman. What good to
the family whom they represent, to the
community, to all that is just and right,
can come out of such imputations? If it is
true, then it only puts the family deeper
and darker in the paths of crime, and tends
to show that these vicious tendencies are
not altogether acquired, but are in a meas-
ure at least hereditary. Ah! gentlemen,
'tis absurd, and the story of Harry Hay-
ward smarting under the thrusts of his
brother's testimony, when he undertook to
show that Adry was the man who held
him and Miss Ging and Miss Vetter up,
told a story which is impossible of belief
to any intelligent man. The watch that
he had owned himself, when he came into
the office the next morning, was on the
safe there. Harry walks in, the door open-
ed, and there is the watch. Just one of two
things is true; that is, that Harry lies en-
tirely and that Adry tells the truth, and
had no more to do with that hold up than
you or I, and I think his wife’s testi-
mony convinces you on that point; or else,
if he did have anything to do with it, it
was known and understood by Harry, be-
cause Adry would not have come in there,

442 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
and put the watch right in the sight of
Harry unless he had known that the whole
matter was understood, and they had con-
spired together to hold up these people, as
one step in that general education of
crime of which Harry has shown such
proficiency and such wonderful aptness.
Ah! gentlemen, Adry is no saint. Adry
might have wicked thoughts and wicked
purposes. He may harbor towards his
brother even now, feelings that he had
better not, but he has never trod the
paths of crime, as Harry would make you
think. He, who pursues the legitimate and
proper vocations of life by day, has little
time by night to prowl upon the highways
and rob and hold up the innocent. Only
the idle and inherently vicious may be ex-
pected to do this. Why, gentlemen, Har-
ry’s own acts and conduct contradict his
testimony in that respect and so do Adry's.
If it were true; if Adry were a highway-
man, and had held up these people, it
would have be a mighty strong reason for
Adry, under any circumstances, to have
all his business affairs, all his business
matters, and his money, if he has any.
If he would do that, knowing that he was
innocent himself of that holdup, and that
concealed for his own protection any
knowledge which he had that was detri-
mental to Harry. But more than that. See
the months that follow, clear down to Dec.
3. See, how Harry trusts him in everything;
Adry was guilty, he is a man that would
go in
PARTNERSHIP WITH THE BLACKEST
CRIME
on earth. If you believe his own story of
this holdup, you cannot fail to believe
that he is a man bad enough and wicked
enough to take the life of Catherine Ging.
Then there was in the course of the ex-
amination an attempt to show Adry out
of his flat for some minutes between 7
and 8. It failed. Take that circumstance of
the whisky, just to show you how the ves-
sel has been tempest tossed in this case.
Mr. McCormack, the bartender at Lally's,
on the witness stand, and he testified to
selling liquor to Harry on the morning of
the 3d of December. My friend Smith cross-
examined him, and at considerable length—
at considerable length, you will remember.
Then we put on a young man by the name
of Booth, and my friend Smith goes at him
with hammer and tongs and tried to
wrench from him a private memorandum
to show how and why he knows it was on
the morning of the 3d of December. But
the showers and storms come still thicker,
and we put the third man on the stand.
Then my learned friend Erwin appears
upon the scene, and, knowing that it is no
longer of any use to attack the whisky
business, he announces in open court that
they got the whisky; that Mr. Hayward
would go upon the stand and admit that he
bought the whisky. Why a forenoon spent
then in fighting with those witnesses, if
they expected to admit it? They never ex-
pected to admit it, until the proof came so
sharp and strong that they knew there
was nothing to do but admit it.
Look at the theory of the two strange
men way down on the lake, and how that
vanished under the testimony of Stevens
and Wood. Why, gentlemen, it was made
as plain as day. Stevens was tampered with
a little I take it. Wood was as true as
steel. Both of them in fact corroborated
Blixt's story, and account for the two men
which at one time they thought might have
been concerned in the murder. The fact
was the men could not be recognized. That
truthful boy Wood tells you that the only
impression upon his mind was the tight
lines and the form and the dashing of the
horse and the buggy by. He says that, in -
all his conversations and intimate relations
with young Stevens, from that night down -
to the time they went onto the witness
stand, Stevens had never attempted for a
moment to describe the man he saw in
that buggy. Take the testimony of the
two witnesses together, and what does it
mean; it means the vanishing of another
false light. It means the adding and
strengthening of the testimony of Claus
A. Blixt.
Gentlemen, I had intended to pass some
remarks upon a few of the suggestions of.
fered by the counsel who opened this case
for the defense. He harped somewhat upon
the torture of days gone by, the torture of
accomplices, and all that sort of thing.
He criticised Mayor Eustis, and all that.
Well, gentlemen, let time and the candid
judgment of men and the great verdict
that will be rendered for all time, that
verdict which judges the heart, answer the
question. -
All men may make mistakes—I am en-
tirely too conscious of mine. Mr. Eustis
may. I myself on one or two nights I
know, until the early hours of the morning,
walked and rode with him to ferret out
this crime. I apprehended that it was the
mission of the officers of the law, not to
stand dumb and idle in the presence of
such scenes of blood, but to use every hon-
est effort to bring the guilty parties to
justice, and to let the community and
populace feel that public servants at least
had in their heart a true purpose and
ambition to execute the law, to render .
human life more safe and justice more
secure. Let them criticise if they will. To |
my mind it is no reflection uon this beauti-
ful city sitting so queen like on the upper
Mississippi, that she had at that time a
chief magistrate who cared not to eat or to
sleep until he should find the truth and
track the criminal and murderer from his
DARE AND HELLISH HAUNTS.
He said there was nothing detrimental
to the character of his client except that
he was a gambler. I wish I had time to
read—perhaps some of you have—an article -
from a late number of Harper's on the
subject of gambling. He who shall study
the question, he who shall find how it
transforms mind and nerve, how it inverts
the whole soul and being, will find that it
renders the human mind and human hands
capable of any crime on earth and may
be, as some times intoxicating liquor is,
the parent and tap root of all other
crimes. Nothing to be said against him
but to gamble. Ah, think of it! A young
man who might stand in the zenith of his
manhood today, with power and influence,
with ability, with talents, a wandering
gambler. In almost every city of the
United States—he named so many of them
and so fast that his counsel finally stopped
him. When his career commenced is in-
definite; it only ended with his incarcera-
tion in the jail. “Nothing wrong about him
but gambling.”
Ah, he that is so far steeped in that great




OE THE HAY WARD
MURDER TRIAL. 443
parent of human vices, that he would lead
a girl whom he professes to love into its
seductive and poisonous channels; rob her
of the last dollar she had, almost on earth,
who advances infatuating schemes of
gambling—I know of but little worse, and
that is, he is the author and finisher of the
murder of Catherine Ging; and if we can
read carefully from effect back to cause,
we might easily see and know that the
murder of that poor woman, cruel and hor-
rid as it was, was after all but the natural
fruits of a life, which in the formative
period of its years had involved and en-
thralled him, transformed him into an un-
natural fiend without any sensibilities,
without love, without true ambition with
but few, if any worthy qualities.
Paul Borhn testifies that some one whom
the defense would attach suspicion to gave
him a note. Well, gentlemen, I cannot
comment on that. There is nothing un-
reasonable in the proposition or supposi-
tion that this is of the same general piece
and plan of Harry's scheme; that he in
fact caused the note to be sent himself,
probably with directions to immediately
tear it up or destroy it. They had a wit-
ness here who had in his custody the
pieces of this note pasted together; the
state was ready, the officers were ready,
to throw all the light they could upon
that question if there was anything mater-
ial in it. They didn't put them on the
stand, although Officer Mallon was here
under a subpoena of the defense.
Now, gentlemen, a word with regard to
W. W. Hayward, and only a word. I have
already referred to the contradiction of his
testimony upon the question of the 30th of
November; the testimony with regard to
the iron. You have the testimony of Hans
Ellingham—I didn’t hear it. I heard him
tell his story in my office, and I took him
to be a very honest, steady old man, and
a man whose testimony may be relied
upon. Gentlemen, it seems to me beyond
question that the old man has told what
is false in that regard. Against him stands
the testimony of the previous engineer, an
honest old man. Against him stands the
testimony of this paper hanger; against
him stands the natural circumstances of
the case. Even their own witnesses do not
identify the iron—both of them are under
the impression that it was a heavier rail
that was purchased.
Gentlemen, it must go; pass it over as
lightly as possible. Lay it aside with the
testimony of that unfortunate mother who
was sick, and who, to help her son, would
have you think that she went from the
fourth floor down to the ground floor that
night to get ink out of Harry's room to
Write with. She must have taken the ele-
vator. Why was not Tucker put upon the
witness stand if he ran the elevator; or
Anderson, whoever it was? It laid in their
power to corroborate her there upon a ma-
terial point.
Ah, gentlemen, sad as it may be to say,
‘tis questionable testimony, excusable be-
Cause
BORN OF MOTHERHOOD;
excusable because when every other friend
upon the pitiless sea of human life shall
have deserted the unfortunate or unhappy,
the mother, with a life boat, in storm and
darkness, when waves dash high and
clouds sink low, stands by him to the last.
God forgive her; I certainly do.
I intended to comment, and I am only go-
ing to do it for a moment, upon this ques-
tion of the bullet, before I commence on
any other testimony. Let us go back to
the bed rock and see what Blixt testified
to. Of course this was introduced with a
fine play and gusto, to throw doubt upon
Blixt's testimony; but let us see what
Blixt testified to.
On page 271 he testifies as follows: “He
gave me those cartridges; he says they are
extra long. He says, Harry says, they are
extra long and don't belong to the revolver,
but they are extra long and good, and after
you have killed her, you can take these
extra cartridges and put them in the re-
volver; take the extra ones out, and put
in these other ones that belong to the re-
volver, and put the revolver under my pil-
low, when you come back.”
On page 286, under my questions on the
direct, he testifies as follows: Well, the ste-
nographer has got this cross examination,
but I think it was my examination any-
way, “And you placed the revolver after
you had loaded it with the other cartridges
under his pillow in the bed room? A. Yes,
sir; that is where he told me I should put
it. Q. Was there any difference between
the cartridges you took out and the ones
you put in? A. Well, he said they were
extra long; I didn’t look at any of them.
Q. Well, they were the cartridges he gave
you to put in? A. The cartridges I got
loose were the cartridges I put in, and he
said those were the cartridges that really
did belong to the revolver, but the others
could be used.” Nowhere does he testify
that the gun was loaded with extra long
38s, but that Harry told him so. Now, if
the gun was loaded, the revolver, when he
took it from Harry, he wouldn’t then see
what the length was, as compared with the
others which were given him. He fires one,
which takes its deadly effect in the head
of the woman. He returns; he goes into
the bath room; he slips out the cartridges,
puts them in his pocket, naturally takes
the other ones from his left hand pocket,
or the other pocket, and puts them in. As
naturally as night follows day, he wouldn’t
look at them. He didn’t know, and he
never pretended from first to last, or any-
where in his testimony, to swear that they
were 38 long. But, gentlemen of the jury,
that bullet was in fact a heavier bullet;
much heavier—considerably heavier than
the average 38 short, for this reason, that
its own appearance shows and indicates
that it must have lost considerable. Now
you heard a good deal of this testimony
that I haven’t heard, and I am not going
to dwell upon it. That bullet that weighs
now about the average of a 32 short must
have been a 38 long before it went through
the bones in the head of that poor woman.
Take it, if you want to, into your room and
examine it; you must see at once that it
must have lost greatly—largely.
Well, gentlemen, I think the evidence
shows you that there are very many makes
of cartridges; that different manufacturing
establishments make cartridges of different
weights to fit the Colt’s revolver; that it
is almost impossible to find two of the
same grade that will always weigh precise-
ly alike; a difference in the consistency of
the lead. It may be run sometimes so that




444
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
there will be hollows in the bullet. Why,
gentlemen of the jury, I don't know
whether you are hunters or used to the
rifle or not, but I know I have always
heard one sportsman who claimed that he
could reach the center of the target better
than any man in Wisconson, tell that he
never would fire his gun until he had
weighed his bullets; there was no uniform-
ity whatever in them, and he wanted a bul-
let of a certain weight, and he always
weighed them before he would shoot at the
target. There is no uniformity in it, or
about it. 'Tis another piece of thin air,
amounting to nothing. You will remember
the testimony of this gunsmith, that was
brought back by Mr. Hall onto the stand;
you will remember the testimony of Dr.
Nippert as to the fragments of lead found
in the skull.
Gentlemen, I am going to pass over the
testimony of Harry Hayward. I had in-
tended to dwell upon it at length, but I
see that
NEITHER TIME NOR STRENGTH RE-
|MAINS
to do it. You have heard his testimony.
Omit all its confusion, its lame and care-
less manner, its indifference, it seems to
me, to every noble instinct of the mind
and heart. You have weighed it; you have
to determine what it is entitled to. Of
course I need not remind you that he comes
upon the stand actuated by every motive
which could move the mind of man to tell
a falsehood, if he be guilty, for his life and
his liberty may be at stake. In olden times,
until within a hundred or so years, for the
reason of the interests which the party
had it was deemed unwise, and the policy
of the law was to preclude the de-
fense from testifying in his own behalf.
Our modern legislation gives him the right
to testify in his own behalf, and the jury
should be cautioned to weigh it under the
light of the motive, the strong and vital
interest he has in the outcome of the trial.
This you must do. I thought, and I be-
lieve you did, before he had closed his tes-
timony on the direct, that he had but in-
tensified and emphasized the state's entire
theory, and that his words were his own
condemnation of him in this case.
Oh, how cruel and how desperate was the
dodge he made with regard to the whisky.
He got it to get Miss Ging full to distort
from her, gentlemen, the story of where
the money was. An innocent man, it seems
to me, had rather go to the gallows than
admit a thing so damaging and so wicked
as that of one whose form is silent in
death.
Well, gentlemen, take Miss Wachtler, a
star witness, coming into this case as a
sort of unexpected meteor; she gleams
for a minute in the firmament and disap-
pears. She is now, I understand, in the
employ of some of the attorneys connected
with the defense. If there was any proba-
bility of truth in the story which she told,
then I might think it serious. What on
earth is there in this case, according to
the theory of the defense, the testimony in
it, that involved Adry in this case? Can
the learned counsel for the defense ex-
plain to me how Claus A. Blixt would seek
to protect Adry and involve Harry in this
murder? Is there any reason for it? Is
there any reason for him to involve any-
body except the really guilty man? Ah!
gentlemen ºf the jury, the power which
impelled Blixt, through confession and
through penitence, to tell the truth in this
matter is a power that is right in itself,
not wrong. It would not drive him to a
confession which should not only be false,
but which would involve an innocent man,
adding to the horrible crime of murder the
crime of perjury, which might forever
blight the life of an innocent man, and
God does not work that way. Rest assured
in cases of this kind, when witnesses near-
est the murder come upon the stand and
involve themselves in guilt, you have the
highest and best reason on earth to be-
lieve they are telling the truth. 'Tis a
power, gentlemen, born of heaven which
controlled him, and it directed him, not to
worse and more poisoned channels, but to
give the sunshine and the showers, and
to tell it all, and tell it true. Harry was
the last man on earth, according to all
the laws of association, which Blixt would
naturally have involved if he were not
guilty. Would he protect a stranger
against his employer? Why, supposing there
was a stranger in this deal, this phantom
that Grindall told you about, what on
earth is the reason that Blixt didn’t know
instinctively from the first that that man
was out of the country, that Harry Hay-
ward was his friend and employer and that
he would shield him, and Harry Hayward
would be the last man on top of earth
that Blixt would involve in this murder,
unless he were the guilty man.
Now, take that suspicious and crooked
story on the witness stand of that girl.
She has gone in there, the private sten-
ographer of R. R. Odell, into the cell to
take down the statement in full of Claus
A. Blixt. It appeared here in evidence—you
saw that—that the examination had pro-
ceeded quite a long ways; it was half way
through the book. He told about his birth
and history. He had reviewed several
things, and then the stenographer read
to the court from the time that he went
into the Ozark flats in April down to the
time when there was injected at the top
line of this book those strange and un-
natural words, “About two weeks before
the murder Adry and I put up the job,"
and so forth. Following right along a
long connected narrative. Adry's name
from first to last never appears in the
book. Why in the name of heaven should
it be injected there? The trouble was
SHE DIDN'T HAVE SENSE ENOUGH
and the fellow who helped her didn't have
sense enough to put that in where there
would be some plausibility to her infamous
lie.
Well, gentlemen of the jury, take her
testimony. I would pin my life on the
words of Claus A. Blixt against a thousand
of her own; and when you add to it the
testimony of R. R. Odell, a lawyer in this
city, whose character for truth and ve-
racity could not be impeached, and they
dared not try it, and add to it the testi-
mony of Olson, and the interest which she
evidently had in the case, the quarrels
she had had with Odell, and the personal
feeling, and it is swept to nothing; there
is nothing of it whatever.
Now, gentlemen, a little bit of attention
to this man Grindall. Who is George A.
Grindall? A convict, and inmate of the







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 445
workhouse, a professional witness, a man
whom the defense themselves at one stage
of this trial had no faith or confidence in;
but it was simply a choice between Grin-
dall and Cunningham, and they thought
that of the two evils possibly Grindall was
the least, and his story possibly the most
plausible. Now, gentlemen of the jury,
without going over the testimony of the
witnesses very minutely, young Goosman
himself says that the top was down, or at
least partially down. I don't know whether
you would call it a quarter raised, or what
you would call it; anyway, it was back
when the girl got into the buggy. She
drove hastily, trotted along to First ave-
nue. Why should she raise the top be-
tween that and First avenue north 2. But
this man Grindall tells you that as the
buggy turned on First avenue north the
top was up. This man was passing back
and forth there, and the buggy comes
down and turns in front of the lamp post,
and this strange and mythical man has a
very suspicious conversation with her and
gets in. Now, gentlemen of the jury, take
his character into consideration; the sus-
picion under which he comes upon the wit-
ness stand. Take the testimony of that
poor sick boy, Gamaisch, as to what trans-
pired that night on the East Side, and the
quarrel he had with him. Take the testi-
mony of old Mr. Ford, who saw the buggy
turn to the left on First avenue north with
the top down, and who remembers the cir-
cumstance of the picking up of a piece of
wood; a man almost tottering to the grave
of age. Take the testimony of Dickens;
take the testimony of O'Donnell, of Hub-
ner, the clerk for the Nott Rubber Com-
pany. Why, gentlemen, there are six;
there are Gamaisch, Dickens, O'Donnel,
and Harry Bucharo, that directly contra-
dict him on a material point, the direction
in which the buggy turned. And gentle-
men, you will remember this error; it is
fresh in your minds, and you will say with-
out hesitancy that it is swept to nothing-
ness by the testimony of almost innumer-
able honest witnesses who saw it and knew
that that poor, ill fated girl turned on
First avenue north to her left, and was
watched and seen to a point down, I think,
as far as Seventh street by some of the
witnesses, and let the perjured, wicked,
mercenary, snivelling Grindall go with the
rest of this defense—absolutely false—and
if you are satisfied of that, Mrs. Walker
and Mrs. Collins must go with him.
Strange and suspicious witnesses; remark-
able trips they made between the two
cities; strange their appearance upon the
stand, always ready to name the day, ab-
solutely certain when they saw the man
alone, a man which they made tally to
Grindall's man as near as possible. They
could tell you to a minute and to an inch
the places when and where they saw him,
but with all the cross-examination I could
give them they were determined not to
locate the day any nearer than one day
preceding Thanksgiving, and on the week
of Thanksgiving. Gentlemen, 'twas false.
That little unfortunate girl, Miss Ireland's
testimony, who was with that girl by day
and night more than any other female
friend on earth, knows that she wasn’t in
St. Paul during the week of Thanksgiving,
preceeding Thanksgiving day; and the wit-
ness, Miss Hawkins, and I forget her
nother's name, or her mother-in-law, who
º
testified one afternoon, which is in itself
a corroboration of the testimony of Miss
Ireland and gives the lie to the testimony
of Mrs. Walker and Mrs. Lowell. Gentle-
men, “the tail goes with the hide,” to use
the common expression. The knowing wo—
men followed
THE CORRUPT MAN, GRINDALL,
and in the all-searching light of truth they
are swept with the rest of this defense to
absolute nothingness and to abject humil-
iation. Take all this testimony, gentlemen,
and weigh it; study the map if you will,
the high board fence and the electric
light, so far as the testimony shows the
character of things, and the opportunities
of Mr. Jenks or of Mr. Wilson, or of other
witnesses to see Harry; the testimony of
all, the state and the defense, and find your
verdict according to the law and the evi-
dence.
Gentlemen, I shall conclude very shortly.
Through physical privation, through many
weeks of hardship you have sat with par
tience, and with a sturdy and loyal man-
hood to hear the evidence in this
case and to pronounce your verdict.
You have heard all that it was
possible for human ingenuity to devise
that could be said in favor of Harry Hay-
ward. You have sat under the supervision
of an able and distinguished jurist who has
won distinction at the bar and upon the
bench of this state. I am indebted to him
for his patience and his indulgence, and I
feel that I may congratulate you and the
public that during this long and tedious
and most important trial the ablest and
the senior judge of this bench has been
enabled to sit and preside over the deliber-
ation. It may not be improper—I certainly
feel it—to say that I am much indebted to
my assistant, Mr. Hall, for the constant
and ever vigilant work, in court and out,
which he has done for this prosecution.
Gentlemen of the jury, I am about to
hand over to you this case to you, feeling
that you will give a decision in it which
shall meet the approval of coming times
and the conscience of the present and
coming generations. 'Tis a case of cruelty
which in its circumstances has no parallel
in the history of all the world, it seems to
me. A false signal was held out; the
poor girl’s bark was lured to the
rocky and desolate shore, to await death
and destruction, without warning, and in
the emotions of human pity where can
there be so great a realm as here in this
case? That great interpreter of nature
gives a picture in one of his plays of the
innocent Prince Arthur begging for his
eyes when Hubert comes in with irons to
be heated red hot to burn them both out,
and the piteous plea of innocent boyhood
comes and finally prevails. He says: “Oh!
Hubert, must you with hot irons burn out
both mine eyes, these eyes that never did
and never will frown on you? When your
head did but ache I knit my handkerchief
about your brow, the best I had. The
princess wrought it me, and I did never
ask it you again; and with my hand
at midnight held your aching head,
and, like the watchful minutes to the
hour, still and anon, cheered up the
heavy time.” I will not be accurate inº
the quotation. Soon the attendants come
in. He says: “Oh, Hubert! My eyes are
out even with the fierce looks of these
bloody men. Drive but these men away



446
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
and I will sit as still as a lamb; I will not
move, nor wince, nor say a word, nor look
upon the iron angrily,” and he pleads in
childish innocence until finally the attend-
ants go back and after a time the mur-
derous ear of Hubert is won and the young
and beautiful prince is spared for the time
being.
Oh, could some word of warning have
been given to that doomed and ill-fated
girl on the fatal night, the piteous plea of
terrified woman might have touched
THE DRUNKEN EAR OF BLIXT
and averted a murder whose cruelty has
filled this city with tears. But no warning
Canne, and as she turns for the last time
to look for Harry, whom she loved, a
fatal bullet crashes through her poor
brain, and in a moment she is before her
God.
Oh, gentlemen, where is the tongue can
paint or language portray the awfulness
of this terrible crime? Where was Harry
When she turned for the last time to look
for him? He was in the theater. He had
chosen this hour of bloody assassination
as a time for recreation and amusement.
He has taken thither one of the daughters
of our first families in the city, pure and
noble and charming, under the guise of
social innocence. He has taken her to the
theater, and he sits there with a thousand
eyes to prove his alibi, and rests himself
secure. Ah! Was he secure? The midnight
clock had not struck on that fatal night
till a thousand eyes turned to him with
suspicion. Four days had not passed
until the light of God's truth had revealed
him in the enormity of his depravity, in
the beastliness of his character, and shown
him to be a demon. -
Gentlemen, Webster in one of his great
arguments in the Crowninshield case says:
“Here really is a new lesson for painters
and poets. He who shall hereafter paint
the picture of a murderer, let him not give
him the grim visage of Moloch, the brows
knitted by revenge, the face black with
settled hate, the bloodshot eyes emitting
living fires of malice. Let him rather draw
a smooth faced, decorous, bloodless demon;
a picture in repose, rather than in action.
Not so much an exhibition of human na-
ture in its depravity, and its paroxysms
of crime as a fiend, an infernal being in
the ordinary and natural display of his
character.” It is a terrible thing to think
that this man could sit by the side of that
beautiful girl that night when he knew the
terrible deed was being done; but when you
look at the dead, when you look at the
crime and the murderer, the man who
planned the murder of that poor girl, he
must have been just such a character;
must have been a man with so called
nerve sufficient to sit in the theater, suf-
ficient to stand by the lifeless form and
smooth the dishevelled hair, and suf-
ficient to contribute to the floral decora-
tions of her obsequies. I suppose he
watches the shifting scenes upon the stage,
probably laughs and applauds the play,
and then he thinks of another little more
serious tragedy, but after all nothing more
than the killing of a dog, that is going on
out at the lake. He watches the shifting
scenes upon the stage, and laughs and ap-
plauds the play, and that outward laughter
is perhaps but the echo of the inward
fiendish laugh when he thinks that the
deed is done and
“I AM TEN THOUSAND WINNER.”
Who can portray such a character? 'Tis
not in human power to do it. It is not al-
together simulated; it is more a growth
and development. He came by it by a
system of education before he could
choose such an hour as that for recrea-
tion. Ah! It was the preparation of
years. 'Twas the deep laid and rooted
character of villainy so deep, so long con-
cealed from public gaze. Moving along
among good people, a child of wealth and
fortune, the community never dreamed of
it, and never thought of it in its perfidy.
It lay too deep. The pure and trusting
girl by his side never thought of the awful
perfidy within his heart. The traveler in
the volcanic regions may have little con-
ception of the mighty forces that are work-
ing beneath him, but when the torrent of
internal fire shall burst forth its molten.
rock and lava, rending the earth itself,
shattering islands, destroying cities, and
spreading death and destruction on every
hand, then he shall know what he never
dreamed of until he saw its awful devas-
tation.
In the moral realm, the same great thing
is true. The forces working so deep be-
neath are never known until by some
mighty upheaval that stands out like a
mountain peak in history, the world's at-
tention shall be drawn and directed to the
character whose depth of perfidy and
hellishness has no parallel in all the crea-
tions of God. -
Such is this case. No one dreamed of
Harry Hayward. He moved among the
multitude and on the streets. He moved
in good circles, but not until the moral
volcano canne, rending the strata and
fiber of society and all that is dear in this
community, till good people staggered and
stood aghast before the horror of this
crime, not till then was it, under God, to
be known what blackness and what dark-
ness was in the life and character of
Harry Hayward.
Gentlemen of the jury, I lay down this
burden, long and tediously borne, by me
so far as I am concerned, and under the
most intense physical strain and weak-
ness. I have seen you suffering physical
inconvenience, but I ask you to take up
the burden which the state now lays down,
as I know you will, and bear it to the end
of duty's path with unfaltering and fearless
rectitude. I know that your verdict will
be right. I know that truth and justice
shall prevail, and that after this case is
ended there shall rest upon the public mind
the feeling and belief that there is here law,
that there is here justice. And, gentlemen,
that verdict will live, long after you and I
are dust, and the hands which records it
shall be traceless in the grave. It will
stand as the living embodiment of the
conscience of the commonwealth, serving to
strengthen the bonds of confidence be-
tween man and man, making human life
more safe, civilization grander and nobler,
and justice more secure. 'Twill shine as a
beacon far out on the ocean of time, a wel-
come light to the just, and a warning to
the unjust, long after you and I have
reached the harbor, I trust, of peace.
Gentlemen of the jury, take this case.
If sinful men might at such a supreme mo-
ment invoke the guidance of the Divine; if
a frail and erring child on this life's stormy
-



OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 447
voyage may be heard; if my broken and
feeble words may rise above the roaring
waves to the loving Master who stills the
tempest and the angry sea, I pray Him
guide you in the sacred way of truth and
justice. (Applause.)
(Recess until 10 o’clock a. m., March 6.)
MORNING SESSION, MARCH 6.
ADDRESS OF W. W. ERWIN.
Mr. Erwin. May it please the court, at
the request of the counsel for the defense
I wish at this time to offer to your honor
our sincere thanks, and our deepest respect
for the indulgence which your honor has
granted towards counsel during this trial.
We feel that we all have reason to be
proud of the manner in which your honor
has conducted this trial. We wish to say
that at this time to silence forever any
criticism that might be made upon this
noble bench.
Gentlemen of the Jury—I hardly know
how to begin to talk to you. Notwith-
standing the grave consequences which
your most earnest work in deliberating
upon this testimony must bring by your
verdict to my client, my first impulse is
to congratulate you upon the end, or ap-
proach of the end, of this long and tedious
trial.
The people, whom you have served so
faithfully during the past seven weeks,
will never stop to think, and never know
the inconvenience which you have been
obliged to undergo to do the public ser-
vice. I suppose few in the nation stop to
think that for the past seven weeks each
one of you has been obliged to forego the
endearments of home and all association
with your families and your loved ones;
to be perplexed and annoyed by reflections
upon your own private business, which un-
doubtedly must have suffered by reason
of your absence. No one will ever know
what a conflict has been perpetually pass-
ſing in your minds when you thought about
the evidence in this CaSe; have
ing been, by the order of the
court, precluded from even discussing it
with your fellow jurors, and having no
outlet whatever for the mind to relieve
yourselves of the perplexity and the sol-
emnity which the different considerations
from this evidence must necessarily have
constantly brought up in your minds.
If you have done your duty, and I doubt
not that you have, and will, you have
had a profound struggle to await the close
of the testimony, the close of the argu-
ments, and the delivery of the charge by
the court, to hold yourselves as patient
listeners before you began in your minds
to form judgment. There is no harm in my
saying to you that this case that you have
heard here so patiently, and at so much in-
convenience and personal annoyance, has
been read all over the civilized world. All
the papers of this nation in all the cities
of the nation have published nearly as
much as the papers in St. Paul or Milwau-
kee, your nearest cities. The interest and
curiosity which have been elicited by the
publication and wide-spread circulation of
the mysteries in this case has awakened
the nation to a most earnest curiosity, a
deep feling and an intense interest never
before noticed in the life time of any one
connected with this trial. And in that way
you may be unable to understand the con-
stant, incessant and perpetual local ex-
citement, which would have filled this
room ten times over, and which has crowd-
ed these streets with four or five thousand
people at each time the court door was
opened or the door closed.
As you come to progress in the calm and
deliberate investigation of this case, the
manner of its prosecution, the character of
its evidence, you will come to understand
that this case about to be confided to your
charge is in certain senses the most im-
portant case which was ever given to an
English speaking jury. And as so well said
by my friend, the county attorney, last
night, your verdict will live long after you
and your children, and your children’s
children are but dust and mold.
The further consideration of this propo-
sition will constantly recur to you during
the trial; and I do not deem it fit at this
time to attempt to
FIRE YOUR MINDS -
upon the earnestness which is contained in
the proposition that I suggest to you. It
will remain, nevertheless, a truth after
your verdict shall have been rendered;
that the civilization whom you will benefit
lastingly by your verdict will never know
the privation, suffering, sickness and an-
noyance which you have experienced in
their behalf. Gentlemen, you have, so far
as this defendant and his counsel can give
to you, you have our most sincere thanks
for your duties, for your deliberation, for
your manhood. You shall have that in the
end, whatever the end may be; for we
have always been convinced, from the time
that you were shown, and are fully con-
vinced now, more fully than ever before,
that whatever you shall do and decide will
be the honest decision of your best souls
and minds, the union of which under the
guidance of common sense is manhood–
nothing else in the world. -
If this was an ordinary case I could not
now resist the temptation to indulge in
satire. I would lift up before you, if this
were an ordinary case, the astonishing
attempt to apotheosize and deify in this
forum of Christian civilization that red-
handed murderer and perjurer, Claus A.
Blixt. To me it was passing strange. The
doctrine advanced by this deification of
Claus A. Blixt, that gives a man, his
hands dripping in the blood of the inno-
cent, who professes repentance, is that his
penitence is to be the criterion of your
judgment; his penitence to become the
test of his credibility, and that that peni-
tence should be so effectual as to destroy
all the laws of the human mind; potential
enough to turn down all the ties of the
human race, to silence the voice of
mother, father, friend, disinterested wit—
nesses, not in one case, but in a score of
cases. Such a proposition is strange, un-
natural and monstrous. If that is to be the
law which is to be decided by this verdict,
if that is to be the end of this case and
all that has pertained to it; if, in place of
the deliberate liberty of our fathers, the
reservations of the constitution, the long
time-honored rules of court and trial; if,
upon the pile of their despoiled ruins, is to
be erected this new idea of credibility, then
indeed, this is the most important case
which the world has ever seen. And it will
mark in law as “Caesar’s Column” dares
to mark in politics, the destruction of this





448 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
fair fabric of human liberty, liberty which
was ever created by human hands.
Once before in this nation that spirit of
blind credulity, justified only by national
fear, municipal fear, swept like a storm
and a sirocco across the standard rules of
court, reservations of human liberty, in the
city of Chicago, when the anarchists were
tried. Down before that blast went all
the heritages of centuries, until men who
had never had any sympathy with an-
archy, and never will, stood aghast and
startled at the inroad made upon the con-
stitution. For these wholesome rules and
maxims practiced in our state are the con-
stitution. And we have, as Christian
freemen, stamped beneath our feet
that inhuman verdict fanned on by
hate and justified by national fear alone.
For it now appears to our deliberations
that Almighty God never made anarchists
enough to capture one of the Minnesota
hilltops. That spirit of iconoclasm which
destroys civilization, or attempts to, has
put
ITS MONSTROUS AND BEASTLY HEAD
within the portals of this court room. If
tne case was less
like to treat it as it deserves, with su-
preme contempt, with satire and jeers,
and kick it from yonder window. But if I
should attempt that, you would give me
credit for personal display, and would not
stop to think in your own honest minds
whether those things are Ol' a re.
not true. This is chargeable to
the fault of In O. One Iºlan. This
can be laid at the door of no one clement
of this prosecution. It is here not by an
accident, but it has grown and come in here
by reason of a disregard of all the old for-
mulas of investigation, all the old delibera-
tions which always have been had around
the investigation of the right to deprive a
citizen of his personal liberty; until at last
its horrid front was only defended by call-
ing from yonder pure and immortal skies
the spirit of the gentle Jesus Christ, and
say that through the mouth of this red-
handed murderer, Claus A. Blixt, the spirit
of God was speaking.
Oh, what a platitude for this nation to
look upon .
Oh, what a picture of the growing icono-
clasms of these times!
And so it has come to you as it came to
the peasants who arose in France to de-
fend liberty; as it came to the yoeman and
Hamptons of England to defend liberty
against the barons and the classes and the
powers; so it has come to you to stand
here and investigate whether these thir'ss
ought to be, are, and what shall be done
with them 2
Gentlemen, let us see what we are. Let
us see what you are, and what all the
constituent elements of this forum are, not
only in contemplation of law, but in the
practice of ages of English and German
life.
You are a jury. You are not here to
take up the burden of the state where the
state lets it down. In the last few years
state lays it down. In the last few years
of these modern times every effort has been
made by the class powers and the classes
to make the jury simply one of the aids
of public prosecution and state punishment.
A deep movement has been going on for
the last 20 years to destroy in its potency
important, I would
and its defensive power this most ancient
and strongest bulwark of liberty. The
public needs, the public fears; the public
opinion undigested, the creature of sensa-
tional journalism, the mad, hasty, ill form-
ed judgment of passions—these things have
demanded that all of the deliberative for-
uns of the public yield to them to give
them greater might and power.
This is the unspoken movement in this
case today. Why, we have brought this
case before two juries, one of which has not
spoken and will not speak until it can
speak with conscience justified before its
God. One is careful to deliberate and feels
the deep responsibility resting upon its judg-
ment. One that rather prays and struggles
to energize than to leap with haste or
bounding fate or angry lip or word; and
another jury not devoted to the investiga-
tion of the truth, but devoted to the develop-
ment of the most sensational and dramatic
features of daily life.
This jury (pointing to the press table)
tears down civilization every time it dips
its pen into the ink to write its histories
and undigested facts. This court jury
builds up civilization when it calls to its
aid deliberation, judgment, carefulness, God
fearingness, charity, mercy and love. In a
certain sense this forum is the struggle of
these two atheletes, at least; the one newly
born into the ages, the other as old as the lib-
erty-loving and God-fearing people. The
tendency has been for years to make this
jury box yield to that one, and in that re-
spect this verdict is one of the very great-
est consequences to civilization. What are
you asked to do—begged to do? As if the
state should beg its oath-bound jury. You
are asked to put out this human life here
within touch of your hands. That is what
they ask of you. Think of it. They don't
ask to step up here and strangle this citi-
zen by your hands, but they ask of you
another and a worse and a deeper thing.
They ask you to justify—justify by your
oath, your conscience and your minds-
SOME COMMON HANG MAN
to put out this life. And the only evidence
that they bring you to justify your oath
in this terrible requisition upon you, is the
penitence of that red-handed murderer,
Claus A. Blixt. They ask you to surrender
your souls, your minds, your deliberative
manhood, all the operations of your minds
which you use in daily life, with those that
you love best and with those that you hate
worse; to surrender and cancel all the
operating forces of your mind and soul for
a blind, suspicious credulity in the power
of a new-fangled penitence, which mounts
in its blody garments on this witness stand,
a blasphemy and a libel to civilization and
to the God before whom he raised his hand,
and have them perpetuate and you per-
petually be referred to as the consciences
and the minds who bade the judicial mur-
derer take his life. That is this question,
plain and simply brought down here before
you; committed now to your charge.
Consider now for a moment, gentlemen
of the jury, what an American trial is
and under what principles and in what
economy it comes before you as a jury.
Our fathers, our English fathers, our Ger-
man fathers, our Scandinavian fathers, be-
lieve in jury trials. Each time the jury
trial was impeached upon the people rose
and preserved it. In those olden times it






OE THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
449
was encroached upon by the powers.
In these modern times it is encroached
upon and approached only by calm and
subtle hypocrisy and sophistry. The
other jury stood through the light of the
Middle Ages, resisting all physical power.
It has as yet stood against the encroach-
ments of sophistry and fraud and postulates
and claims. What is a jury? Is the
jury an arm of the state? No. Is it the
arm of the defendant? No. Is it the
court? No-a part of the court. It has,
and you have, a distinct, reserved, abso-
lute responsibility, which you cannot share
with the court, or with the county attor-
ney, with the attorney for the defense,
or with anybody else. You are made ab-
solute judges of the facts. No man on
earth can influence you. Logic, mercy,
charity, justice, these alone shall influence
you. The court is absolute judge of the
law. You must take the law from the
court, and the court must take the facts
from you. How are you to approach
judgment? How are you to enter upon
the formation of your judgment? For
your verdict is not your wish, not your
prejudices, not your belief, but is your
judgment. A judgment on what? Not
on probabilities. Not on possibilities. Not
upon the doctrine of chances. Not upon
the doctrine that the public weal will be
best served by finding a victim for some
horrid crime. But your judgment
MUST BE UPON THE EVIDENCE,
the evidence alone. And the evidence is not
that which is sworn to, but it is that
which is sworn to that you believe, and
all that is sworn to that you do not be-
lieve is not evidence. And, in the ascer-
tainment as to which you believe, you call
up those two-fold powers in your life; one
called the intuitive power—the soul power;
one the mind, called the logical power; and,
when they unite there is judgment. When
they do not unite there is reasonable
doubt. You meet a man; you have never
seen him before and you do not exchange
a word with him; someone says “How do
you like so and so?” and you reply “I don’t
like him;” why? Well, the reason why I
can’t tell; but I do not like him. That is
the judgment of the soul. Absolute in
men, women and children, but stronger in
women and children. Strong in accordance
with the development of the soul in man.
But strongest in women and children be-
cause they have more soul and greater
souls than man. You meet a man, perhaps,
presumed and are not narrated to juries.
But I .old it to be doubly important that
in this case they be brought prominently
into view, in order that you may under-
stand, gentlemen of the jury, what the
law demands of you as jurors, as well as
to understand that which mercy, fairness
and fair play demands of you as men; that
with these lights about you, you may be-
gin to deliberate, investigate and criticise
the evidence in this case.
Therefore, gentlemen of the jury, I ask
you when you come to hear the court's
charge, do not think that the court is
about to give you any indication of the
facts in this case; that is
NOT THE COURT'S PROVINCE
and he would not for the world give you
any indication of how he feels upon the
facts in this case. And if he thought you
-
would decide this case and render a verdict
upon how he felt or upon how the county
attorney felt, or upon how I felt, he would
set it aside. You look up to him, act from
him, take it and keep it from him, and not
from me—but from him the rules of law.
They are your best protection; they are
the best protection of these people; they
are the best protection of this defendant.
They are the old, the tried rules of the
pest men, in the best ages of the world.
Those rules are various. They are given
to you rapidly—they are generally read
from a written charge, and you have to
pay rapt and strict attention to them in
order to get them in their fullness and in
their power.
Among these rules which I think the
court will give you, is a rule of law which
you must not lose sight of in this case,
and that is, in a court of law fraud is
never presumed. Juries are not at liberty
to presume fraud; but fraud must be
proved before it can be made a link in the
chain to take the life of man.
Another rule is, that you cannot supply
defects in evidence by probabilities; you
cannot presume payments in the absence
of proof of payments. You cannot presume
loans or returns of money in the absence
of proof of a loan or a return of money.
You are here to try this case on the evi-
dence; you are not at liberty to go beyond
it, but you are to criticise it, to weigh
it, to judge it—the evidence, not the man.
And your verdict, when it is found, is
simply this—either that the charge in the in-
dictment is proven to your satisfaction, be-
yond a reasonable doubt, by the evidence,
or your verdict of not guilty, simply that
the evidence does not and has failed to
prove to your satisfaction, beyond all rea-
sonable doubt, the guilt of this defendant.
The indictment is a mere accusation found
by the grand jury. It has no weight here;
there is no presumption arising from it; it
merely an acucsation. And that the defend-
ant shall not be prejudiced because he is
accused the law has laid around him, and
now holds before him, the presumption of
innocence until in the honest judgment of
the souls and minds of 12 men, no one single
mind dissenting, he stands proved guilty
beyond all reasonable doubt. Then the
presumption of the law fails, for then he
is in contemplation of our laws a guilty
man; not until then.
These are the rules and practices of our
fathers. These are the safeguards of our
liberty. These are the dearest elements of
our constitution. These are what we have
prized since we began to follow the light
and teachings of the Divine Son of God.
Now, gentlemen, what position do I have
here, or the county attorney? Understand
fairly now what our positions are. We are
sent here by the state: he upon the accus-
ing side representing the state's power upon
the state's side, and I commissioned by the
state to represent the state upon the des.
fending side, under the august com-
mission to represent the state upon
the defending side, what for? First, to
aid the learned and honorable court in the
preparation and bringing in and the exa-
mination of the witnesses, and the tesi-
mony put before you; to do that under his
direction, submitting always to his judg-
ment, yielding our personal opinion as


450 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
lawyers in absolute fidelity to the law
announced from the bench. -
Next, we are here to aid the jury, not
to confuse them. We are here commis-
sioned to aid you,
NOT TO BLIND YOU.
You are not soldiers to be commanded
by officers, turned about—you are not a band
of citizens approaching an election, to be
cajoled or veedled, or urged, or coaxed.
You are removed entirely from your life as
citizens; you sit here as the august judges
of the facts. You sit here, not only seper-
ated from mankind, taken from your fam-
ilies, kept where no opinion can touch you,
examined as to your qualifications, careful-
ly chosen by both sides commissioned by
the state and people, but you are bound
by an oath to Hinn who is here now—who
is every where, before whom you and I
must some day render up a report of this
life of ours. You have my profoundest and
most tender sympathies. It is much easier
for me to appear here as a lawyer and an-
alize this testimony and to observe the
decorum of this court and to endure the
gaze of these people, and the criticisms of
this nature, it is much easier for me than
it is for you; for you are clothed with the
responsibility of the execution of your
judgment. I can do the best I can in my
case, and I can bring my burden and lay
it down at your feet; you have to act on
the taking or not taking of a human life.
And this is a place for tears and not for
cheers.
I have seen juries before swept to convic-
tion, told that a pardoning power was in
the state that they were not responsible,
and when the gallows was erected I have
seen them sign a petition and go to the ex-
ecutive and beg to undo their hasty ver-
diot—because too much haste was em-
ployed—the deliberation which came too
late! And I would not be in the place of
one of those men, I would not stand the
constant scorpion whip, I would not have
despair between me and the future for any-
thing! And I would not take one of your
positions, I would not want to sit in one of
your places, strive how I would to find the
truth. would not Want
to sit there for any consid—
eration whatever, for human judgment is
weak. We do, all of us, when we rise at
morn or go to sleep at night, kneel down
and pray to Him to give us strength and
wisdom in our daily life. We do acknowl-
edge this weakness to every one about us
by every act of life; and in the presence
and continuous and perpetual sense of
weakness, I would dislike, oh, I would dis-
like to be compelled to pass upon the ques-
tion of human life. This I feel, and this
feeling shall govern me as I attempt to aid
you in the investigation of this testimony.
I shall endeavor to assist your honest
minds in the taking up of this testimony,
in the beginning of your deliberations, and
I shall endeavor to do it with that sincerity
and that correctness which is born of a
sympathy for you, in regard to the terrific
obligations which are now placed upon you
by reason of your being chosen as the
ARBITRATOR'S OF LIFE OR DEATH
in this case.
Now, as I talk to you—as I now attempt
to assist you—try, gentlemen of the jury,
to be perfectly at home and perfectly easy,
not strained. I am not here to shiver a
lance with any rival in the didatic arena; I
am not here to make personal record for
rhetoric or eloquence, or anything else. I
am here under the influence of my con-
science. Whatever might have been
the annibition of my earlier
I am here now under God, for the
purpose of helping you to find the truth.
For I hold that in finding the truth, there
honor lies, there safety lies, there safety for
the community lies, there safety for the
nation lies.
Now, let us therefore talk about this case
and about the evidence. Let us try and
gather it up and analyze it and see what
this case is, for the learned district attor-
ney, on account of his illness, was unable
to analyze it. He contented himself with
assuming things as proven, which he did
not analyze before you, showing the man-
ner or the mode of proof; he was compelled
to take the narrative and not the delibera-
tive and analytic form of argument. If
you have any desire not to punish a man
who is guilty of the murder of Kitty Ging,
he certainly nerved you up to a proper ap-
preciation of the necessity of punishment,
of the honesty of such punishment. But I
hold that by reason of not analyzing his
case, he rather
CONFUSED YOUR MIND
than aided you in the execution of the duties
or in the discovery of the truth. I submit
that his illness, his weakness, his long con-
sideration of the case, his natural bias, his
frankness of opinion, and his fairness
and honesty in giving you that benefit, all
unfits him as an adviser of you in the exe-
cution of your offices. You are here to con-
sult mind and conscience and not passion:
you are here to seek justice and truth, and
not public acclaim; you are not here to act
under the principle that your verdict will
live forever, without taking thought as to
what your verdict is or upon what principle
it is founded.
Now, frankly, let us begin the analys's
of this case, and let us see what this case
is.
The defendant, Harry Hayward, is ac-
cused of inducing Claus A. Blixt to take
the life of Miss Catherine Ging. What evi-
dence does the state rely on to sustain
this charge? You look at the evidence, not
the charge; you look at the evidence in re-
lation to the charge, not the charge in re-
lation to the evidence. Who are the only
persons relied upon by the state to sutain
the charge—whose evidence alone ºs relied
upon by the state to sustain this charge?
Why, you are confronted and drawn up
now with your first feeling of duty. You
say in attitude to the state, “Produce your
witness—produce witnesses convincing our
mind and souls beyond a reasonable doubt
that Harry Hayward killed Catharine Ging,
and we will hand him over to the hang-
man swift and sure.” That is duty; that
is honor; that is your oath; that is your at-
titude. You were chosen because you held
that attitude. Do you remember how care-
fully you were chosen? Did you notice that
the most conscientious, the most fearless,
the men of strongest conviction, best
equilibrium, was taken from all the panel
and put in this box without regard to fear
or favor? What for? That at this point in
the contest those qualities might shine out
to all the world; so that your verdict













































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 451.
might meet with the approval of the world.
And I dare say that all of you individually
have been surprised, delighted and sur-
prised as you increase your personal ac-
quaintance to ind that in your box is the
very best elements of conscientious man-
hood that this panel showed; that is not
alone my opinion, but it is the sense of the
people. It stands out here absolute-
ly true—and you were chosen
to use that conscientious splendor.
Now you will use it. So you say to the
state, Bring on your witnesses to prove this
man guilty, and swifter than the light we
will strike down the murderer. But you
say to the prosecutor, the accusing power
of the state, “Be sure you do it. If you
do not convince our soul, our consciences
and our minds, beyond all reasonable
doubt, we will not give you this man for
a victim.” Be careful, you say to the
prosecutor, who you bring. If you can
bring men of good understanding, good
character and of weight that we may be-
lieve them; if you bring murderers and
HIGHWAY ROBBERS AND INSANE
- MEN.
we will criticise them. Be careful who
you bring. That is what you say to the
accusing power of the state. And who
have they brought? A man from whose
finger tips the blood of Catherine Ging is
constantly dripping, while from his eyes
drop gummy and improvised penitential
tears. He walks upon the witness stand,
blood and tears. That is one of the wit-
nesses that they bring. They bring upon
the witness stand next before you a man
having all the idicia of mental weakness,
a deformed mind; so weak and so deformed
that it never could comprehend the com-
mandment of God to honor father and
mother; so weak and so deformed that it
never could use, or live in, or be benefited
by the realm of feelings, of the blood
which God placed in him; a man who
could never sense, so weak and deformed
was his mind. A man who was so weak
and deformed in mind that he became a
highway robber. A man so weak and de-
formed in mind that he plotted crime and
finished up by plotting the death and de-
struction of his brother. A man so weak
and deformed in mind that in the very
execution, by means of falsehood and per-
jury on the witness stand, in an oath be-
fore high heaven, and before an American
jury, in the presence of these people, none
of the rstraining influences which could
be put upon a human mind or heart were
present pressing upon him to at least be
decent; he could not be respectful to God
or His laws of blood, to father or mother
or their claims upon him, to a sense of
dignity and honor. Recreant and renegade
to soul and mind and body this tiger–
you lead him upon the witness block, a
reeking, bloody, shameful, canting, hypo-
critical murderer–a human tiger. These
are the witnesses which the state asks you
to believe. These two witnesses are at-
tended by two squires. Horse dealing Wil-
son walks upon the stage as the squire
of the murderer, and investing Jenks with
his arch smile takes the position as squire
to the tiger. These are the only witnesses
which have been brought to accuse this
man of murder.
The nation has already in their hearts
rendered a verdict in this case; it is your
verdict. You will never create a precedent
of belief in a penitential, perjured murder-
er, uncorroborated, in defiance of jaw, as
flanked and aided by a human tiger, in the
person of Adry Hayward. That is all the
testimony in this case. Now, it comes right
down to this; there is no escape from this
discussion; if Claus A. Blixt, murderer
though he be, if he has sufficient weight
with you to convince your minds and your
consciences, resisting as you do evidence of
this debased character, from this debased
source, under the rules of law which the
court will give you—if he and his corrob-
orators, this fell tiger, Adry Hayward, if
they are enough to satisfy your conscience
and your mind, your road is plain to con-
viction. You should not hesitate one no-
ment or one instant on the character of
your verdict. But if Claus A. Blixt, the
accomplice, whose testimony, the court will
charge you, you must receive with grave
care and caution, if his testimony is
not enough to convince you; if the corrob-
orations are not forthcoming, and of the
character to compel your credence, then
your duty is as plan as the day is so. And
you will say so, for you will say what you
believe after the most careful and earnest
consideration of this case. That is expect-
ed of you, believed of you by everybody.
That I know you will do. Therefore in
your deliberations it becomes of the most
intense importance, not only to this de-
fendant, but to yourselves; not only to
this defendant’s sire and mother, but to
your peace and family, to the happiness of
your lives, to most ceaselessly inquire with
all the light that can be given you, with
all the care that you can exercise, whether
Claus A. Blixt tells the truth or lies. That
is the supreme question for investigation.
You need the aid of careful assistance;
you need it for your own peace, for your
own conscience, for your own manhood,
for the execution of your own duty. You
need it from court and counsel, and from
everybody. I will, with the best of my
honest purpose, help you all I can.
Now at first flush, in the ordinary affairs
of your life in any report which is to be
made by a man of Blixt's character against
your neighbor, or against any member of
your family, any slander which a man of
Claus A. Blixt's known character would
make against anyone connected in your
life that you had respect for, or had no
respect for, ordinarily, you would not be-
lieve a word he utters. Whoever thought
of using -
JUDAS AS A WITNESS
after his betrayal of the master? That
was a true penitence of Judas, and I doubt
not that by that kind of penitence for-
giveness comes, for he contemplated his
uselessness to mankind, and he went and
hung himself. That is what Blixt ought
to do, this man who teaches you, weep-
ing silently, that through him the spirit
of God speaks. That is what he ought
to do—that is what he ought to do. I
would take this penitence, if he was in
earnest, to another church than the one
presided over by Cardinal Eustis. I would
point him to a different confessor than
Friar Odell. I would have him make his
peace in a church which was not presided
over by Elder Haji, or Elder Stewart, and
I would hold out to him no advantage on
this earth, but I would hold out to him



452 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
the advantages which can be given for true
repentance—mercy, you scoundrel, after
you have hung yourself. Mercy then, but
not till then. That is the forgiveness of
God. The master never said that a cant-
ing declaration in repentance of sin was
to wash away all the consequences of sin.
The most preposterous libel upon the reli-
gion of Jesus Christ that ever was in-
dulged in by mortal men is this. Ordinarily
you wouldn't believe Claus A. Blixt before
he had repented, and ordinarily you would-
n’t believe him after he had repented.
Well, in what manner are you asked to
believe him now? Why, where his word is
to be taken, at the supremest moment of
your life. The accusing state asks you
here now on his word to beach the boat of
your consciences; to anchor to the sand,
when in the ordinary—most ordinary—mat-
ters of your life, you, acting in natural
minds, using your natural senses, in the
exercise of your great common sense and
honest manhood, you would not believe the
man at all. Would you believe him if he
accused your brother of complicity in the
murder of Catherine Ging? He might have
accused anybody. All the men who were
seen or around about that portion of the
city lay within the touch of his leprous
hand, and so near as I can understand
the doings and the workings of that pe.
culiar and new fangled grand jury, which
been brought together by Mayor Eustis,
they didn’t care who it was if he only
touched somebody.
Just contemplate–oh, contemplate what
answer you will make to your conscience,
what answer you Will make to
your dear friends When you re-
turn to them; what answer you
will make to the nation and the World when
you say: “We ordered the execution of
Harry Hayward upon the word of Claus A.
Blixt. We did not see the murder, nor hear
anything of it. We used Claus A. Blixt's
eyes, and Claus A. Blixt's ears, and we took
Claus A. Blixt's word, and now they are
going to hang him.” What a preposterous,
shameless position to put Christian men in .
Evidence! Oh, what a sham! Convincing
evidence! Oh, what a travesty! You see
now where you are fanning flame to infuri-
ated anger, struck to instant and revengeful
purposes by the constant iteration and re-
iteration of this mysterious and damnable
murder of Miss Kate Ging, to keep from
analyzing the debased character of the tes-
timony on which they asked you to act. A
single moment's step or stay on your part
must be absolutely binding on your con-
sciences,
Did you see the play and pantomime
made here constantly by that scoundrel?
Mayor Eustis is the man who should cry
at night in dreams or waking, “Out,
damned spot! There is where the mur-
derer shook my hand!' There is the place
to apply that poetry. Walking up to the
dripping murderer before your eyes and
telling him, “Oh, you made a splendid wit-
nes, a splendid witness.” And these people,
forming lines betwixt this court house and
yonder jail, standing on each side by
thousands, failed to rebuke some partisan
of the prosecution as they cried on one or
two occasions, “Hang him! Hang him!"
when Hayward passed. But no cry came
from those partisans when this penitential
saint, Claus A. Blixt, passed.
Now, gentlemen, I will get down to the
evidence pretty soon. This is important to
you, and it is important to Harry; it is im-
portant to you. I am very sorry, indeed,
portant ovou. I am very sorry, indeed,
that some of your members are sick. I am
sorry you have been so long confined, but
if you will bear with me I will try, to the
very best of my ability, to analyze this tes-
timony as speedily as possible, assisting you
all I can.
(Court here took a recess until 2 o’clock.)
Gentlemen of the Jury—I had a deep and
an honest purpose when I cross-examined
Claus A. Blixt. I did it bravely and boldly
as an attorney, after having made as care-
ful a study of the case and arrived at as
honest convictions and conclusions as I
was able to from the one-sided view that a
man gets on his own side of the case.
Knowing that this man was an engineer
and was a foreigner I saw the great dan-
ger which attended his testimony. He had
not finished his direct examination, had
not got half way through, when I saw that
I had but one alternative to pursue in fair-
ness to the jury.
Now, for 20 years I have examined men
on the witness stand, and to my art, to my
profession, there comes a sort of uncon-
scious sight and judgment, just as there
does to men in all other professions of life.
An engineer on the train hears something
startling which in the mind of one not
expert would simply awaken the intelli-
gence to look for it. He instantly turns the
lever before the mind has had time to act.
There is no use multiplying or trying to
illustrate that proposition. The physician
gives a nostrum right in the presence of
death instantly without attempting to use
logic which a non-expert would use. They
call this skill. Perhaps, that is as good a
name as any other. It is simply something
that is born of practice and follows any
special practice or industry. I knew before
Blixt got half way through his testimony
that he was a perjurer, Just as quick as
I could see that, my mind said he won't
be able to voice this perjury unless you
show his ability. Then caution said, now if
he is telling the truth, and you demon-
strate his ability, your case falls. Yes,
that is true. But if you demonstrate his
ability, and he still contradicts himself,
you explain to yourself and the jury this
feeling that you have in regard to the
character of his testimony. And so I did
question him for one day and a half on
matters that were not supremely import-
ant, not for the purpose of arriving at any
abstract truth in this case, but for the dis-
tinctive purpose of showing to you and to
the nation that this man Blixt was a
phenomenal man so far as a grasping in-
tellect was concerned; that his mind was
strong; that he had the power and the
capacity to successfully commit perjury;
that he was phenomenal in that regard;
both as to capacity of mind and as to bold-
ness and daring in the silly excuses that he
proffered when exposed. I had compared
his statement in my mind. I had found
that he had shifted on motives; first, be-
cause he was in the power of Harry Hay-
ward by the reason of burning of a barn.
He denominated that as his first motive.
The next statement he made he put it upon
the whisky. He was dazed and hypnotized
and under the power of a superior mind,
an unwilling but passive agent, in an






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 453
hypnotic condition. Then, I saw him on
the witness stand swear that the thing
which moved him to do this deed was fear
for wife, and love of home. These things
taught me just as swiftly as a cloud on
your horizon on the farm tells you it will
rain in two hours, and you begin to put up
the hay. These things told me his abso-
lute condition, and I knew I never could
show to you his absolute condition unless
I demonstrated the great capacity, the
phenomenal capacity of his mind, consider-
ing his circumstances in life, for they are
extraordinary, wonderful.
GOES BACK A FEW YEARS.
I had been duped in the Barrett case
right in this forum. Henry Barrett had
simply changed positions with Peter, and
he had sworn that he did what Peter did,
and that Peter did what he did, and baf-
fled me on cross-examination, and the in-
nocent boy was hung. He had confessed
that to his jailer, and we took it before
the governor and begged for pardon. So, I
saw it was absolutely necessary to bring
out this strong, absolute fact in relation to
Claus A. Blixt, with the distinct under-
standing that if with his strong mind he
could take up and explain his prior con-
tradictions, his new intentions, his embel-
lishments, I would fall beneath the power
of that mind. It was an absolutely neces-
sary procedure. I was justified. I had con-
cluded that matters would turn out just ex-
actly as they have. I think Blixt has
proved himself to be the most astonishing
and daring perjurer I have ever seen upon
the witness stand. And if there is one
thing in this trial that I thank Almighty
God for—for it was not my art that
brought it about, but it was that Blixt by
his own statement and his own words, and
by himself has demonstrated this condi-
tion of character. Blixt's testimony is a
fabric of villainous construction. I think I
will be able to show you its original ele-
ments, and how it was reared, and where
the additions were put to it, and where it
was painted, until finally he erected a spire
upon it, and the attorney called it the
church of the living God.
Before I go into this, one word in rela-
tion to this crime. This crime is as mys-
terious now as it was in the beginning, just
as mysterious. There is a reason for that.
This case ought to be taken up this very
moment, stopped right here, if it could be
done, if the laws permitted it, but they do
not; it ought to be sent into the grand
jury room for investigation before any one
was tried. It was a practical usurpation of
the grand jury which let this case, with all
its mystery, come before this trial court.
Our people in the height of their business
enterprise, have been for years talking about
the abolishing of the grand jury system. In
some states they have abolished the grand
jury on account of its ponderous char-
acter, because in peaceful rural life its
ponderous machinery is not necessary,
there being no hidden and concealed crime
committed within their borders. But the
grand jury system was created by our
fathers for just these conditions, where
nºysterious murder or mysterious crime
had taken place; and where in the investi-
gation of that crime it was necessary to
bring in before the grand jury innocent
and guilty persons suspected, and every-
body else, and there sift the matter to the
bottom and join in the indictment all who
ought to be joined in the indictment before
it was brought into the trial court for
trial. By mistake, by error, partially
prompted by the customs of the times, the
mayor and the detectives and the county
attorney formed themselves into an im-
provised grand jury. They usurped the func-
tions of that body. They entered upon a
series of inquisitions unknown to the con-
stitution of civilization. They accepted
what they pleased because they were not
oath bound, and they stopped in their in-
vestigations where they pleased, for they
were not oath bound. And just as soon as
the criminal himself had suggested some-
thing, they took his word and began to paſt
him on the back, and set the force of the
state at work to straighten it, to bolster up
and to build up his story, and to tear
down, to crush out and destroy all of the
natural fountains of inquiry. This came
about by a wicked disregard of that sec-
ond greatest bulwark of liberty, the grand
jury; and an error which I hope will never
be repeated in this state. So that now,
while the persons who ought to have been
most inquired about, Blixt and Adry Hay-
ward, concealed behind the phalanx of offi-
cers who prosecuted, justified and vindicated
by the public press, and uninvestigated in
any way whatever, now they, and they
alone, come forward as the
SPONSORS OF THIS PROSECUTION:
and the prosecution sneers at us, that we
have no defense; sneers at us for not doing
that which they rendered it impossible for
us or any one else to do; and that was a
plain, orderly, honest investigation of the
mysterious movements of Miss Ging, which
I have not the least doubt would have been
brought to light had they been properly in-
vestigated; and an investigation into the
whereabouts, condition and movements of
Adry Hayward and Claus A. Blixt.
The court will tell you that we are not
charged; that a citizen cannot be charg—
ed to do the duty of the state and find for
it the murderer. The court will charge you
that it is not expected or incumbent upon
the defendant to suggest to you who the
murderer is. He stands here under his pre-
sumption of innocence, and until he is
proved guilty he is not required to raise
his voice. The state assumes to make him
guilty by evidence beyond a doubt; and the
state in so doing, it is claimed by the ablest
jurists and the most humane jurists, ought
to lay before the jury all the testimony.
Now, Claus A. Blixt, and the construc-
tion of his story is voiced here in this evi-
dence, circumstantial, but in such a way
that you cannot help taking notice of it.
And you must take it—it seems to me—
into account, in honestly and fairly judg-
ing of the credibility of his story. How
many things do you suppose in this case
contradict Blixt, Saint Blixt! Not yet; not
yet. He contradicts himself time after
time, day after day, circumstance after
circumstance. He adds to his testimony.
The motives and inducements for his add-
ing appear here in the investigation of his
testimony. The dead body contradicts him.
The condition of the clothes contradicts
him. The blood in the buggy contradicts
him. The manner in which the horse came
in contradicts him. The shots contradict
him. The tracks contradict him. The wit.
nesses contradict him on his movements
after leaving the body. His wife and his




454 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
brother-in-law and others contradict him
as to putting the revolver in Harry's
room. He is contradicted as to the witness-
ing of the note. His testimony is explained
as to the cutting of the iron bar. He is
contradicted by the bullet. He is contra-
dicted by 10 witnesses that establish the
alibi. Why, it is the most startling thing
that I have ever seen, the substance and
the materiality, the convincing power of
all these subjects of contradiction, and the
terrific self contradictions that this man
makes of himself.
Now, just take a headline for a moment,
and assume, in order to properly appre-
hend his testimony—we will assume, not
as proof, but assume by way of argument,
that Miss Wachtler told the truth. It is
assumed now by way of argument. Blixt.
said to Miss Wachtler, in talking to his
own attorney, “Adry and I put up the
job to kill Miss Ging for her money; and
we agreed to put it on Harry if we were
caught,” or words to that effect; and on
the night of the murder, I think Miss
Wachtler said, Adry was where he got in
the buggy with Miss Ging. She would not
swear positively to that; that was her inn-
pression. But she did swear that he said,
Adry said, “Go to the place where we
were at two weeks ago; and if you have
any trouble you will find Frank there to
help you.” Now, just consider that not
proved, but announce that to your minds.
When it was ascertained from the speech
of Harry himself, speaking naturally and
in accordance with the conditions and cir-
cumstances around him, as I will be able
to demonstrate to you, I think without a
doubt, when it was ascertained from Har-
ry that he had loaned Miss Ging $7,000 on
the 24th of November, instantly at 10
o'clock in the morning of the next day
he was taken into surveillance under actu-
al suspicion arising against the man who
over the life of a girl he was not engaged
to or married to held a policy amounting
to $10,000.
Now, you have got to
LAY DOWN A CARDINAL RUILE
to which you will subject Blixt's statement
and testimony, the same one that you will
subject Harry's statement and testimony,
and Adry’s statement and testimony too.
You have got to lay down some cardinal
rule to which you will bring this testi-
mony, and measure it upon, and to weigh
it upon; and what is usually that rule for?
His honor will tell you what the rule of
court is, always is. It is this: If you find
that out of court the witness has made
statements contradictory of the state-
ments which he swears to on the stand,
then you will take that matter seriously
into consideration into ascertaining wheth-
er you can now believe him in what he
does testify to upon the stand. Now, erect-
ing that cardinal rule for both Harry and
Blixt, what is the result?
Remember, now, the shock which comes
to a mind after the unholy motive has
passed into a crime. The motive they as-
cribe in this story against Harry was that
his avarice and desire for money led him
to insure her life and then kill her. Now,
acting under that motive of avarice they
say that he compassed the death of Cath-
erine Ging, but, recollect, that it is the
law of heaven, just as sure as the stars
shine, whenever an unholy criminal mo-
next night, at 2 o’clock–13
tive usurps the place of conscience, steps
in and takes possession of the throne of
conscience, dominating the mind and life
of man, whenever the crime is committed
which is done under the impressment and
incentive of the motive, that very instant
always reason resumes her sway, and
conscience takes her seat again. The
smarting presence of this injury to our
lives wrought in among the very elements
of blood and fury of the crime itself brings
fear, concealment and terror to the crim-
inal always! Always! Well!
Well, it did not come in Harry's case. It
always comes when the facts are true. It
did not come in his case. Or if it came he
braved it. Mark how the prosecuting at-
torney talked of it yesterday in his dia-
tribe against gambling, to show how the
gambling instinct was enough to blot out
all conscience, all manhood and everything
else; so as to show you that he might and
would be able to steel himself against this
law of Almighty God, impressed upon the
conscience and minds of men, and did not
deny, and won’t deny the action of the
law, but claims that through the exercise
of gambling he had come to be able to
steel himself against this ordeal.
Now, in that condition of steel-
ing himself, according to their theory,
against the action of his conscience, per-
turbed and disturbed necessarily, what does
he do? Why, the most important thing
that there is in this case. He goes in be-
fore Mayor Eustis, and Doyle, and Law-
rence, and Hall and Nye, and all of these
gentlemen who have exhibited so much
ability to you, the very first officers, the
keenest and brightest of your municipality
or county—he goes in and sits down be-
fore them. They have a stenographer and
the stenographer takes down every word
he says. They question him one man af-
ter another, one band after another, from
10 o'clock in the morning until next day,
hours. And
when he goes upon the witness stand he
tells exactly the same story from begin-
ning to end. You saw them sitting here
with a hundred page pamphlet in their
hands. His words taken by this phonetic
art so that he could not escape; and not
one single mistake or variance. Now ap-
ply your cardinal rule as to what his
statement had been, made outside the
court, and you find the man sustained,
verified under circumstances which if
guilty it is almost beyond the power of
human reason to conceive, that he could
have at that time in all the various de-
tails of a hundred pages of printed manu-
script, and if it has not cropped out that
he has told something afterwards which
upon investigation would have been found
to have been untrue. Now, be fair. I
know you will be fair. Jury plays fair.
That has been so for hundreds of years.
It is so yet. No speech, no diatribe, no
nondescript can break down that spirit
of fair play which the jury box contains
always, nearly always.
Let us bring Blixt up. When Blixt made
his first confession, where was Adry Hay-
ward? A dry Hayward was detained, being
examined by the very man that Blixt made
his first confession to. When he made the
first confession what would it be if it was
true, as Miss Wachtler testifies, that Adry
and he put up the job to murder Miss Ging,








OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 455
and to lay it on Harry if they get caught?
Now, both are caught; one is in one jail
and the other is in another hall. What is
his first confession? It is in accordance
with his deal with Adry. Now, let me see
if it is not.
THE FIRST STATEMENT,
now what would it naturally be? By Chief
Smith—“Q. You called me in 2 A. Yes, I called
chief in. Q. You called the chief in and told
him you wanted to make a clean breast of
it? Q. A clean breast of it!” Blixt. Yes, here
is Blixt's clean breast that he wanted to
make. “I wanted to go to the chief and
the mayor, I asked for both the mayor
and the chief. That is what I wanted. I
have done this because I heard that his
own brother, Harry's own brother was
telling the truth; and I understood then
that the program was that they had made
me to hang, and I thought to myself if
they want to do that they might just as
well know the truth then, you know.”
His first confession was made under his
agreement with Adry to put this on Harry.
And this remarkable man had no penitence,
did not desire to tell the truth until he
heard that Adry was talking, and when he
heard that Adry was talking he thought he
would commence talking too, and talked
alongside of Adry. This man had learned
in some unaccountable way that Adry was
telling the truth, and he immediately then,
in accordance with his promise, began to
tell the truth, as Adry and he had agreed
they would tell it as true and so he told
it. “Q. Do you make this statement of
your own accord; you asked to have the
chief and the mayor come to you and hear
your statement? A. Yes,’’ Gentlemen of
the jury, there is a flash of light upon this
cant, this repentence and this hypocrisy,
You cannot escape it. It must make an im-
pression upon you. “Yes, that is what I
want to make, because that is true.” Now,
what was true? That Harry killed the
woman and brought him the body. His
pious declaration is “Yes, that is what I
wanted to make clean-breasted, because it
is true.” And how did he verify that that
was true? Any one in the office can prove
that he says “Well, I got to do that. You
see it makes me cry when I begin to think
that they call me a murderer; it makes me
always trouble.” Begin to cry! With the
hellish lie upon his lips that Harry killed
this woman and brought the body to him
out there beyond the railroad; he begins
to cry because they called him a murderer
and make him all this trouble. Look at the
profound deceptive ability of this man.
See how he commences to work upon the
minds of the self-established inquisitors and
grand jurors. See where he first broke in
upon their deliberations, so that they did
not think it necessary to go before the
grand jury except just to put Adry before
the grand jury and have the man indicted
as a matter of course. with only two or
three witnesses as-as that is all there is to
the back of this indictment—to use the
grand jury for the purpose of a stilted
charge which had been investigated outside
of the grand jury. Why? Because the
tears of this arch-fiend and murderer had
influenced these inquisitors and grand jur-
ors to such a degree that they believed this
liar, this hypocrite.
Now, what was his first statement? Now,
here were the same tears and the same re-
pentance, but it had not neen perfected.
don't you see? It was perfected before it
was brought in to try to deceive you.
Now, in his first statement, when he wants
to make a clean breast of it, when he
wants to tell the truth, according to his
say so, but according to my theory and the
circumstantial evidence in this case, ac-
cording to an agreement with Adry that
they would kill, or put up a job to kill the
woman for money, and would lay it onto
Harry if they were caught, and then be-
ing caught he made this statement.
Now, this statement is not wholly un-
true. There must be
SOME ELEMENTS OF TRUTH IN IT.
Try and ascertain what things would be
naturally true in that statement, and what
things would be naturally false, and you
have the headlight from Miss Wachtler to
distinguish those things. “I left the house
at 6:45, the Ozark. We had rºade that ar-
rangement before. I took a car out to
Lake street, and then went out to the
west side of Lake Calhoun, to a point
where he showed the officers, that was a
little hill just across the railroad track
a little knoll just across the railroad track,
near where the body was, not over two
blocks from where the body was found.
Then Hayward came along, and I heard a
shot a few minutes before he got to me.
The body was in the seat on the left hand
side, sitting up. He said it is done now,
be sure and give me plenty of time to get
back. See that she is dead. Don’t leave
her until she is dead.” I went on about a
mile, and then turned the horse around
and came back, and we saw he would have
to drive into town and put her out of the
buggy, pushed her over the seat of the
buggy, and she slipped out herself.” She
did slip out herself. Her heel mark was
found by Erhardt's brother. It was un-
disputed testimony before you here that
she struck upon her feet. She fell upon
her face. The dust was upon the front
of the skirt alone. Everything verifies this
first confession in that regard. He says he
went a mile arter he heard a shot, after
the body came up to him. He now says he
went a mile from that point and shot the
woman, drove 30 rods beyond, turned
around and drove back a mile, and there
put the woman out, and drove three-quar-
ters of a mile, or a mile down to the big
timber. That was proved by the testimony
of Eidam, I believe, about that distance
where the creek was and the woods are.
What is significant in the construction
of this first statement? What to your
minds must be the main significance? And
in that first statement, while he puts it
on Harry in accordance with his agree-
ment with Adry, he plainly shows you
that some one else was connected with him
at the place of the murder. And what is
remarkable, what is remarkable, as you
pursue the inquiry into this case, of these
best forms of evidence, these circumstanti-
al things, which you follow, psychological-
ly, as you watch the construction of men's
words or the doing of their acts or the
birth of their motives, the strongest tes-
timony in the case, under these circum-
stances, that is deeply wonderful, sugges-
tive, what he said that Harry said to him:
he, simply, like Henry Barrett, transposed
Harry for the other man. He spoke the
truth, but transposed the person. He says





456
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
this man, or Harry says, “It is done In OW:
I have killed her.” He says the arrange-
ments were that he should hide the body,
putting Harry as the person. But the
a rangement, the subject matter on his
mind was true. Then, as he drove up, the
man said to him “Be sure and give me
plenty of time to get back. See that she is
dead. Don’t leave her until she is dead,”
and those words will sound in your mind
forever, as long as you shall live. You can-
not escape those words. When I take up
these skulls, when I go and get that torn
veil, when I point you to the dishevelled
hair, and the broken nose, and the cut on
the lip, and about five inches of cracked
skull on each side of that dear, poor girl's
head, when I show you by all the rea-
son and law in relation to violence upon
the skull she was and did submit to dead-
ly violence before she was shot—when I
call your attention to the pool of blood
that laid under her head when the carotid
artery was cut by that fatal bullet, you
will remember those words that he put in
his first statement, although he put it
against Harry. But under the circum-
stances it was applicable to whoever was
with him. “See that she is dead. Don’t
leave her until she is dead. Give me
plenty of time to get back.”
Now, what was this first statement? This
witness who now comes upon the stand
with another entirely different story;
on his own accord and voluntarily, calls
up the mayor and the chief, has a type-
writer summoned, and wants to make a
clean breast of this entire transaction; and
he tells his story, which proves
THERE WAS ANOTHER MAN
engaged with him in the commission of
this murder; that he was commissioned to
remain with the dead body until she was
dead; that is, that he, Blixt, was commis-
sioned to remain with the body until she
was dead; that he did so until she was
dead; rode her around in the buggy until
he was sure that she was dead, and then
dropped her out, and the shot that was
heard there, after she was dropped out,
was undoubtedly a shot from Blixt, or
some accomplice of Blixt; nobody can ever
tell, except him, if he would tell the honest
truth about it; and then the pool of blood
on the ground; the evidence in relation to
this accomplice, present at the time of the
murder, was innumerable, and therefore I
wish to call your attention especially to
that as we proceed.
Now, gentlemen of the jury, here is a
confessed murderer; and in his first state-
ment—not all false, but only false for the
purpose for which he agreed to make it—
that is, to charge it upon Harry—but un-
doubtedly true in the subject matter, in
regard to the death of the girl and his
commission to watch her until she was
dead; that is put in evidence before the
mayor and the chief, and reduced to writ-
ing, and they operated upon it. Under that
evidence they arrested and detained my
client. Do you recollect, after 13 hours of
examination before Eustis, Nye, Hall and
the detectives, and everybody connected
with the prosecution of this case, after 13
hours of exhaustive cross-examination,
what did the state do? That was the first
jury that sat upon Harry's case. Why, it
acquitted him. It turned him loose. It
said to him, in the language of Mayor
Eustis, “Harry, we believe you have been
made the victim of circumstances.” This
improvised grand jury turned him loose,
acquitted him, and expressed the opinion
that he had been made the victim of cir-
cumstances. Well, what caused his arrest?
What caused them to change? Adry and
Stewart had begun to work. Blixt had
heard of Adry. Blixt makes the confession
in accordance with the agreement that he
had with Adry. Harry was instantly ar-
rested, and from that time down to the
present, the whole object, strain, move-
ments and forces in this prosecution have
been to sustain, correct, revise, make good
and strong this confession of this infernal
murderer.
This was on the 9th the first statement
was made. Two days later, upon inquiry,
it was found that Harry was at the thea-
ter at a few minutes after 8 o’clock; that
he was there before the fatal shot was
fired; that Blixt's statement, made in ac-
cordance with his agreement with Adry,
was a patent lie. Then what did the state
do? The state, which ought to guard the
citizen, what did it do? Why, two days
afterwards, . Mayor Eustis again got hold
of Blixt and said to him as follows: “Q.
Now, you would like to make a full state-
ment of things as they existed, would you,
Mr. Blixt?” Just listen to the phraseology
of that, gentlemen. Blixt had been talked
to in the meantime. It had come to Eus-
tis' knowledge that this man wanted to
make another statement, or was willing
to make another statement, different from
the one that he had made, when he made
a clean breast of it. And he (Eustis) uses
this remarkable language: “Now, you
would like to make a full statement of
things as they exist, would you, Mr.
Blixt?” Then his answer is, “Well, I don't
know what you want me to do.” Blixt,
the murderer, caught by the public officers
in a lie—hellish, fiendish; approached by
the public officers and asked if he did not
want to make a full statement. “Now,
you would like to make a full statement of
things as they exist, would you, Mr.
Blixt? A. Well, I don’t know what you
want me to do now” and he was ready
to do
ANYTHING THAT THEY WANTED
him to do. Bless his penitent soul. God
has spoken through Blixt, but it has gone
through him like a cannon ball, like a
thunder bolt; God’s voice is shivered like
glass; exposed his plots, his mind, his con-
structions, his deep, dark ability. “Well,”
(continues Cardinal Eustis), “you know the
statement you made Sunday was not quite
correct; you want to correct the statement
you made on Sunday and put it as it is.
Now, tell us just exactly how things oc-
curred on Monday night” (the rest of it
he had); “just tell us what time you came
in; state what time you came in after it
was done.” Now, what inventions did this
wonderful witness make? He must now, to
obtain the blessed pardon which he ex-
pected to have as soon as his case is over,
and his victim has gone to the gallows-
his coveted escape from the gallows under
the mercy of the court on account of his
confessed repentance and penitence—I say
he must now, in order to obtain it, invent
an excuse for his killing that girl. He
killed her and he killed her for her money:




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 457
he and his accomplices killed Kate Ging
for her money, and I will prove it by his
own lips—from his own lips.
Now, in regard to his first statement,
found on page 12. Recollect, gentlemen,
that his first statement was made after
the public press had teemed with the doc-
trine and the logic and the platitude, that
because Harry Hayward had a life insur-
ance policy upon Kate Ging's life he must
necessarily have been interested in the
murder. These papers, according to the
testimony of Blixt, were seen by him, and
read by him, up to the time that he was
arrested and taken into custody; so that
this cunning man was in possession of the
public ideas in relation to the suspicion
hanging around Harry Hayward. And he
tells you that he was to have one-fifth of
- the insurance money at that time, and in
his telling about that, he makes a slip.
Claus A. Blixt makes a slip; a remark-
able thing for Claus A. Blixt to do; but he
did it here. “What about the money that
she had on her person.” Money on her
person? Eustis asked him that—“What
about the money she had on her person?”
Eustis had found out that this woman had
$2,000 a few days before, in Barge's saloon;
Eustis had found out from Harry and from
the exhibition of the notes, and everything,
that $7,000 had been paid to her; Eustis had
found out by an inspection of the vault
that the money was gone, and he asked
this man Blixt. “What about the money
she had on her person.” “A. That was a
fake. She never had any money I don’t
think. Of course I don’t know.”
Whose fake was that? Who had told
Claus A. Blixt that she had money on her
person? Claus A. Blixt hadn’t stated that
he was to have the money on her person,
or that she had any money or her person,
or that she would be found with any
money on her person by Harry, either in
his first statement or second statement, or
in the testimony. How did he understand
that the question of having money on her
person or not was a fake? Why, there is
but one explanation for it. When she was
killed, when she was robbed, she had no
money on her person, and the motive of
the killing and the motive of the robbery
was all a fake; she didn’t have the money
on her. “Now,” said
THE SUSPICIOUS EUSTIS,
“she had some money and showed it when
you were sent after and she signed the
note there.” His answer is “Yes, but that
was a long time before this time.” “Yes,
it was a week ago about.” “Yes,” and
then Eustis drops it right there. Now, you
answer to yourselves, gentlemen, how it
was that Claus A. Blixt made that ex-
pression in the first statement, that the
money which she had on her person was a
fake. “She didn’t have any money on her
person, I don’t think she never had any
money, I don’t think; of course, I didn’t
know.” He didn’t know until she was
murdered, and it turns out to be a fake.
Now, we come to the second statement.
He must now tell that he murdered the
woman. So he puts in his testimony for the
first time that Harry brought a whisky
bottle to him about 5 cº-clock in the after-
noon. That was a purely coined piece of
business. It is evidently coined now. It
has been ascertained that Harry had been
with Waterman, and that they were drink-
ing together; and a doctor who came on
from Anoka stated in the public press that
he was with Harry and he bought a bot-
tle of whisky at Lally's saloon. All that
Harry had said and had done within the
last few days was in the public papers; and
this man Blixt, seizing upon these things
in the public press, coined it into the
statement that the whisky that “he had
bought, he brought to me and infuriated in-
to my brain so that I could kill the
woman.” Why, gentlemen of the jury, does
his wife swear to any whisky? No. Does
Anderson swear to any whisky? No. Does
anyone else swear to any whisky? Does he
not swear that he went and got a bottle in
the house for Harry and emptied the con-
tents into a bottle that had a screw top to
it? Yes he swears to that now. Where
would he have naturally got that bottle ex-
cept from his wife? Ilooking around for an
old empty bottle, wouldn’t his wife's atten-
tion have been called to it? Wouldn’t she
have seen it? Wouldn’t she have known
about it? And he says that he didn’t drink
it all up; that he left some of that whisky
in the bottle. Wouldn’t his wife have
found the unexplained portion of the whis-
ky in that bottle and have been able to
come forward and corroborate him tº Most
certainly she would. This whole talk about
whisky was a coined circumstance; invent-
ed; the motive for its invention was to ex-
plain how it was that he came to kill that
woman. For, if he told the truth, that he
killed that woman with accomplices, for the
purpose of robbing her, that was the end of
it; Harry was cut off from being his ac-
complice, because he was at the theater.
He had tried to make Har-
ry the present accomplice in his
first statement. His Statements
in that regard had fixed it so it was sure
that he couldn’t do that. He therefore had
to make Harry an accomplice; use means
and aids other than what he had already,
and he therefore invented the story of the
whisky for the purpose of putting some
means in the power of Harry, in the cus-
tody of Harry, and coming from Harry
for the purpose of linking Harry with his
craft. And he said it was about 5 o'clock
in the afternoon. Now, why didn’t he say 5
o'clock in the afternoon when he testified
before you, gentlemen? Can you tell me
any reason why this bright and able man
should change the time of that whisky
from 5 o'clock in the afternoon to between
6 and 7 in the afternoon 2 Why, it has
been discovered that Harry was not at the
Ozark flats until nearly 7 o'clock. Just as
fast as this growing witness, this self
rearing witness, understands where to put
in his mathematics, he changes his state-
ment to suit the mathematics of the case.
And so he has shifted between his second
statement and the statement he made upon
the stand from 5 o'clock to 7 o'clock in the
afternoon. The motive of that you can plain-
ly see, and that was to escape the dis-
proof of the whisky which was contained in
the fact that
HARRY WAS NOT AT THE OZARK
until nearly 7 o'clock. Now, if there had
been whisky in the business at 5 o'clock
Mr. Blixt would have told about the infu-
riating effect of that whisky in the first
statement just as well as in the second. If
he had gone down there influenced by this
whisky, half drunk, he would have seized
upon that in the first place to account for
|
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458 -
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
his going out there to receive the horse
and keep the body until it was dead, and
let the other man escape and corne into
town. But as it was not true, and as it
wasn't necessary, he didn't invent it.
But when this second statement came
around, he stood under different circum-
stances; he was obliged to invent some
motive and excuse, and he invented this
one. In the second statement why does he
say about bringing a revolver. That had
to be covered. In the first statement not a
word was said about a revolver. Now, if
it was true that Harry Hayward engaged
him to go out upon the road and gave him
a revolver with long cartridges and with
short cartridges, in order to exterminate
this woman, to be sure that she was dead,
that would have appeared in the first state-
ment just as well as in the second. He
was placing this upon Harry Hayward-
placing the murder upon Harry Hayward.
He omits to state anything about that.
Now he wants a cover for some unknown
motive; some mysterious rhotive; he wants
to cover the one who was with him—if
there was one with him—and he says:
“Q. Then he came back again, didn't
he, and brought you this revolver?”
“After he brought the whisky; it was
about 5 o'clock I think.” “I know now
when he came in at half past 6 and gave
you the whisky, or was it half past 7, or
half past 5?” “No, it was about 5 o'clock
I think.” His attention was directly called
to the time. And he nominated in his sec-
ond statement that the whisky was got
at 5. They were trying to change the
statement from 5 until nearly 7 o'clock be-
cause they knew that he (Harry) didn’t
go to the Ozark Flats until 7. But he puts
it at 5, and he now puts it at 7 to suit the
exigencies. “Then he came again, didn't
he, and brought you the revolver?” “Yes.”
“Now, tell us about that time?” “He came
and gave me the revolver.” “About what
time?” “That was right after he gave me
these extra cartridges.” “When was that?”
“I think it was about 6 or something; I
don’t know what time it was, as far as I
would remember.” “Then what did he
say when he brought you this revolver?”
“Then he said—just let me think now.”
“Yes, just take your time.” “I am not
able to do it. I remember it so well some-
times.”
What does he remember so well some-
times and sometimes don’tº This made up
story published by collusion with some one
else. Clear upon his memory at times and
at other times not clear. He has to stop
and think and think it over.
“(Showing him the revolver.) Oh, yes,
now I know what he said. Yes, that looks
like the same one.” “Is that the revolver
he brought to you?” “Yes.” See how he is
led into this, gentlemen. “At what time did
he bring you that?” “That was about be-
tween 5 and 6, between 5 and 6, yes.”
“And then what did he say to you when he
brought you the revolver?” “He said when
I got this, I have got this loaded again with
a different kind of cartridges; he said that
sºme kind that I had in this box, he said
that he had hid—kept hidden; and he said
when you shall shoot you take these shells
or cartridges out, and he gave me six of
the other kind belonging to this revolver,
and he says, you destroy those or put them
anywhere else and fill it up with the
others and put the revolver under my pil-
low when you get back, he says.”
Now, he changes in his testimony what I
just read to you was his second statement,
where he said that the revolver was
brought to him at 6 o'clock. Mark you;
these are his own words. These are his own
words, where he is given time to remem-
ber. Now, what did he say before you, gen-
tlemen? He said it was now between 5 and
7, and nearer 7, according to his testimony
on page 378 of this record. Changing con-
stantly -
TO MEET THE EXIGENCIES
of this case; to defeat the defense—any
chance of the defendant making any de-
fense here. Five o’clock to 6 o'clock and
6 o'clock to 7 o'clock. This very able man;
this man whom you see was able; this man
that has no defects of memory; this man
that has a keener and better mind for
these things than either you or I have, you
catch him here changing, changing, chang-
ing to suit the exigencies of this case.
Well, gentlemen of the jury, what re-
spect have you, what credence have you
for that character of a man? Would you
believe in the ordinary affairs of life a
man who told you an untruth in regard to
the simplest thing? For instance, if he
told you that he had watered the cows at
5 o'clock and your wife came in and said
to you, “I was down there at 5 o'clock and
those cows wanted water,” and you
brought that man up again and he says
“No, it was 6 o'clock,” and then your
daughter came up and she says “No, I was
down there at 6 o'clock and those cows
wanted water and I would have given it
to them myself if I could.” Then he says
“Oh, it was 7 o'clock.” Now, would you
believe such a man as that who shifted
his story to evade being caught? If you do
not believe him about watering cows,
would you believe him in a case where
they asked you to take a man's life, on
what he saw, what he heard, and his mem-
ory of what he said and heard? You, to
adopt, you to accept him as your veracity
—the guide, the reason of your act, by
which you let loose the hangman on a cit-
izen?
In both the first and second statements
he said that he left the basement to go
down to Kenwood boulevard—he does not
use the word Kenwood boulevard, but he
says “To go down to that place you
showed me” at 6:45. In the second state-
ment, that he moved the body out of the
box and she slipped out herself. In the
testimony, after we had discovered on the
cross-examination of the doctors and the
autopsy, her poor skull was all broken,
her nose broken, her lip cut, then this
scoundrel comes in and testifies that he
pushed her out and she fell very hard. I
will turn to that testimony and read it to
you. His first statement. “How did you
get her out of the buggy? Just like this,
(illustrating.) If I should take you, like
this.” “And then you took her legs and
kind of pushed them over the edge of the
buggy—pushed her feet over the edge of
the buggy?” “Yes, and then she slipped
out herself.” Just as Erhardt testified.
Her feet struck the ground and her heel
mark was there. She fell forward and the
toe scraped about six inches; the mark
being there of the toe point. A verification
of his first statement. A verification of his



































OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 459
second statement because they were iden-
tically the same thing. But in the testi-
mony in this trial we have discovered that
the poor woman's skull was crushed and
these marks upon her were impossible from
such a thing. Then he comes forward and
says that he pushed her out and she fell
very hard. That he pushed her “to keep
her from coming against me and she fell
very hard.” What a vast difference. The
motive here was perfectly apparent in the
language of his first answer, in the second
statement. “What do you want me to do
now º' That is his attitude. That was his
attitude all through this case; “What do
you want me to do now?”. Now, what ad-
ditions did he make in his second state-
ment? These are contradictions I show you.
Did he make any additions? Yes. In his
second statement, he swore to this addi-
tional thing: That Harry told him to say
to Witherspoon, after witnessing the notes,
(using the name of the Saviour.) “What
a lot of big bills.” What was the motive
of that? No way on earth could the state
find any proof whatever to show that this
loan was fraudulent. Up to the present
time no person on earth but Blixt im-
peaches that loan. The state had this will-
ing witness. They could use him wherever
they wanted to.
HE WAS IN COLLUSION WITH ADRY.
They were both in their charge. There-
fore, in order to throw suspicion on the
loan to give a wrong color to the witness-
ing of a note, to suggest to the jury fraud,
he adds, against the tenor and effect of his
former statement, in which he admitted
that the loan was all regular, that there
was a great deal of money; that the lady
said “I think I shall fall dead I have so
much money;” that it was on the square.
That was his first statement. He then in-
vents and swears to it before you in his
second statement and swears to it again
before you, gentlemen, sticking to it. In
the second statement he said “Harry told
me to say to Witherspoon, after witnessing
a note, ‘What a lot of big bills.’ ” Now,
the motive there is plain, is it not? The
exigency of the state is plain there, and
the use of this perjurer is confession of
his ability and his willingness and the
necessity of his perjury. What are you
going to do with the testimony of such a
man as that? Are you going to shut your
eyes upon it? Are you going to discard it?
Are you going to say, as you said when
they brought Blixt here, if you bring up
a murderer, bring up a man who tells a
true, consistent and never-changing story;
shows his genuine penitence, and let him
tell the truth, corroborate that truth, and
we will convict? But when they bring
him up and show that he is constantly
changing to meet their exigencies, in order
to hang the defendant, by hook or crook,
what are you going to do with it?
Let me call your atention to another
remarkable additional statement, now, lest
I forget it hereafter. Recollect in
the first statement that Blixt made,
he spoke about Harry having come
to him in the morning of Mon-
day, the day this woman was mur-
dered, and brought him a gold watch, with
a deer on it or a horse, he said, just as
if it had never been in his possession, but
he had told it was a deer or a horse, he
did not know which—in fact it was a deer
and a horse both; brought to him a gold
watch with a deer and horse on it, a box
of cartridges and a roll of money, and
asked him to hide it. Now, the object of
that was perfectly plain. This prosecution
STARTED WITH THE THEORY
originally—this grand jury started out or-
iginally with the theory that Harry Hay-
ward had in fact made this woman a loan,
but that the money he had used was in
fact all counterfeit money. That was the
theory of some of the detectives. Blixt.
jumped onto that theory, and in his anx-
iety to invent something about Harry and
put it onto him and he says: “He brought
me a roll of money.” The idea was it was
to be counterfeit money. And he says, “It
was rolled up and tied around with a
string.” The idea of that was he would
not know it was counterfeit money and
would not be chargeable with a knowledge
of its being counterfeit money. Recollect
how cruelly this infernal scoundrel put into
the innocent and dead lips of Kate Ging,
that she was going out after green goods:
This ruthless scoundrel, with a fell hand
worse than a beast, tries to make of that
lovely girl a counterfeiter! These things
cannot escape. So he put upon Harry the
suspicion of counterfeiting. He testifies he
brought him a roll of money, a box of
cartridges and a gold watch with a deer
or horse on it. Oh, if the grand jury
could only have this case now or ever and
follow it out. The watch he lied about.
The watch was in Eustis Bros.' store. He
says he gave that to Harry in the after-
noon. The clerk of Eustis Bros.' store
came here and testified to what? That
Harry put that watch in Eustis Bros.”
store to be repaired and cleaned on the
morning of the 3d. Now, what was Harry
doing with the watch? Harry was using
his watch open and carelessly with no
sense of discovery, fearlessly and honora-
bly. What was Blixt doing? This is the
strongest mark of collusion with Adry!
Blixt, obedient to the agreement between
himself and Adry to put this on Harry–
undertakes to make poor Blixt the vehicle,
the instrument, the witness, that Harry is
trying to conceal the watch that was
taken in the hold-up. Commencing even
there to barricade the way to inquiry as
to his own hold-up and robbery of Miss
Ging. Right there—not by a man who
knew of the hold-up, for Blixt knew noth-
ing about it, but by a man who was the
dupe and tool of the man who did the
hold-up and who is now striving to put
the concealment of that watch in as cor-
roborative evidence that Harry engineered
the hold-up.
Why the box of cartridges? Because
Blixt had been told, or it had been colluded
and designed betwen him and Adry, the
whole story of the long cartridges with
which the woman was to be shot, and the
short ones which were to be placed in the
revolver, for Adry knew that Harry had no
cartridges but the box of short ones. The
officers had gone down and had searched
Harry's trunk and had taken everything,
and the box of short cartridges was there,
the ordinary cartridges.
Now, to explain the fact that in Harry's
revolver would be found a cartridge which
naturally would be there, this whole story




460
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
was invented about the change of the cart-
ridges in the revolver, so that when they
found Harry's revolver there, innocently
loaded with a short cartridge, Blixt, this
willing tool and perjurer, would by relation
with the story of the long cartridge, do
away with the natural presumption that
arises from finding the revolver of Harry
with his ordinary short cartridges. And so
in the beginning, at the first stages, Blixt.
undoubtedly, by collusion with Adry, says,
“Harry brought to me in the afternoon—in
the morning—and took away in the after-
noon, a roll of money, a box of cartridges
and a watch with a deer or horse on it.”
Well, there never was any such box of
cartridges. The watch with the deer or
horse on it was even then, at that mo-
ment, in Eustis Brothers repair shop,
hanging in the open window. If it hanged
one way the horse showed, if it hanged the
other way the deer showed, and there it
hung. Caught, impaled, transfixed here on
the watch, what becomes of Blixt's story in
relation to the roll of money and the box
of cartridges? But, does he stop there;
does he swear to the same things when he
comes to swear before you? Oh, no, no;
the case has changed; the exigencies have
shifted, the counterfeit money theory has
been passed up, the man’s place has been
searched, for everybody has been brought
in—he never had any counterfeit money—
Miss Ging never had any counterfeit mon-
ey; that is a played out and abandoned
idea. Then, where will we shift the roll of
money to—what? How about the loan 2
They attack the loan—they attacked it by
Adry to make the $5,000 a package of $1
bills! What does he swear to? Turn to page
272. What kind of a watch was that? It was
a gold watch worth about $50. Was it a
hunting case watch? Yes, it was a hunt-
ing case watch. Do you remember any-
thing about any inscriptions upon it,
whether it was engraved or not? Well, I
think, if I am not mistaken, there was a
picture of a horse or deer on one side of
the case, a horse or a deer, I don’t remem-
ber which: I think it was a deer.” “How
about the roll of money, did you see how
much was there?” “He said there was $50,
all $1 pieces.” “It was paper money?”
*Yes.” “Anything around it?” “There
was a rubber string around it.” “Well,
did you see whether there were any $1 bills
in it?” “No, I didn’t look, and there was a
watch, and a roll of money and a box of
cartridges.”
Now, see him change from a roll of mon-
ey-he has now changed to a roll of money of
$1 bills! What was that for? That Was
in order to sustain and corroborate Adry,
with whom he had agreed to put it onto
Harry, with the package of money which
Adry grabbed in Harry's pocket, or at
some place, he saw contained only $1 bills!
Here is an exigency; here is the motive—
here is the change, here is the necessity
of explaining away the hold up, if Harry
should tell of it. Here is the -notive in
the establishment, in the perjury of the
watch incident; here is the motive in the
counterfeit money theory! By whom was
all this changing done, this changing,
changing, changing witness, the most fickle
you ever heard of, ever dreamed of. He
inserted in his testimony the phrase, “He
is one of the gang,” when he says that
Harry introduced him to Miss Ging and
put him in the buggy. “He is one of the
gang!” What for? To carry out the the
ory that Harry was sending her out there,
the world only knows for what, but sug-
gestively for green goods—for green goods.
Just stop a moment and consider this tes-
timony. “He is one of the gang.” Now,
gentlemen of the jury, at the very first
* that you can come to think about
t.
LOOK AT MISS GING AS SHE WAS.
Miss Ging was the exact counterpart cf her
sister; lady like, dignified, educated, long
trained in business, a woman 29 years of
age. Not a foolish thing about her or her
life. Shrewd and attentive to business;
an able business woman; one who could not
be imposed upon; one who could not be de-
ceived; one who could not be lured by a
false flag to a rocky coast. A Christian
woman, a member of the Catholic Church,
a communicant of that church; a woman of
character; secretive, minding her own bus-
iness and keeping her own affairs to her-
self-consider for a moment—consider for
a moment how it ever would be possible to
get that lady, that Christian woman, into
dealing in green goods! How would she
deal in green goods—what could she do
with counterfeit money? Why, what a
silly foolishness is all of this! Have we all
gone daft? This infernal, lying scoundrel
cannot debauch a woman’s character by so
outrageous a proposition as he makes here,
and puts forward for you to believe as the
subject matter of deceit which Harry Hay-
ward used to a woman he respected, to
get her out of the city by night under the
charge of such a looking thing as Blixt,
for the purpose of meeting the gang! Oh,
shame on such an infernal, such a damna-
ble piece of testimony as that: Every
speech, every act, every movement of the
poor dead woman's life gives it the lie,
My witness that that witness is a liar,
is Catherine Ging; she draws herself up
in her historic character, her unassailable
character, and looks at the shivering, ly-
ing, failing, penitential murderer in her
scorn!
But this able, cunning, daring perjurer
will invent this story about the green
goods, and supplement it by the assertion
in his testimony before you, that he, he,
this terrier, was one of the gang! I don’t
believe by all that is in me that he was
ever in a buggy with Catherine Ging. Her
history, her life, her ladyship, her woman-
hood, everything gives the lie, and I don’t
believe that he was ever in a buggy, ever
in a buggy with Catherine Ging. I don’t
believe she dealt in counterfeit money; I
don’t believe she could be duped to the ex-
change of counterfeit money—for her I
repel that slander and you should.
It is enough to turn this man down, his
mother down, his father down, the 20 min-
utes around him down, by this infernal
hypocrite, but not the dead—no, there is
the line! He must not cross the grave with
his infernal, hellish slander.
It is a marked thing, splendidly mark-
ed, that while we were introducing testi-
mony from Harry's own lips as to the
pure and noble character of that woman,
the state objected to it as irrelevant and
immaterial—by the strange prosecution,
strange testimony, strange witnesses,
strange witnesses, too, about Harry Hay-
ward. He stands there today, he stood

OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 461
there upon the stand yesterday, he will
pass from the very hangman's noose, if
you send him there, as Kate Ging's best,
most gallant and most earnest defender.
You may talk until you are deaf about this
man alluring this woman onto the rocks;
he was under the most trying circum-
stances, when it would have served his
purpose better, so far as mere logic was
concerned, to have permitted her charac-
ter to be tortured to this extent, said that
she was more to him than a friend, an
honest Christian friend. That to a common
mind would have been the strongest argu-
ment in favor of the validity of the loan:
but he despised it, he withstood it and
stands up now as her defender.
If you and I could see the spirits of the
dead, I believe you would see Catherine
Ging standing right there between you
and that man! She would tell you, “Who
has defended me so strong as he?” She
would tell you, “Read my letters, gentle-
men, I am his witness for the loan, I re-
ceived the money and acknowledged it.”
Contrast the virtue of the dead with the
penitence of
THIS INFERNAL HYPOCRITE!
Whose place would you rather be in 7
Which attitude would you take if you
wanted men to believe you? The splendid,
mainly attitude of the one, or the despica-
ble, cowardly, perjured attitude of the
other?
A conversation of Harry with a doctor as
to sudden deaths, as to the vital and fatal
places had been brought out in the public
talk and in the public press; and so when
Blixt came to be sworn before you, to con-
nect that talk, idle, having no consequence
in itself, a matter that everybody has
spoken of to more or less extent, every one
of us in our lives, to connect that and make
it criminal,—Blixt swears that Harry told
him where to shoot, and that he told him
he had asked the doctor as to the best
place to shoot a person. In his first state-
ment Blixt said the loan was right, he
never saw so much money, it was the sight
of that much money, it was the knowledge
that she had this money that led him and
Adry, and whoever it was, to compass her
death for the purpose of robbery. After she
had been murdered, in accordance with his
plan with Adry, he told the story of the
first statement. After he had been de-
feated in the first statement by the alibi,
he changed to the story of the second
statement. In both of these statements he
did not attack the loan; but continual in-
quiry and the most subtle and strict exam-
ination that could be made by all the forces
of this city had discovered that Harry Hay-
ward was correct, that the loan was a
bona fide, honest and honorable thing, and
it must be attacked; there would be no
motive for Harry Hayward to murder this
woman if that loan was straight. No
mortal man could be found to attack that
loan. No person under the skies could be
summoned to discredit that loan, its valid-
ity or truthfulness. They called on Blixt.
Blixt had sustained the loan before—been
silent about it before. And he walked up
on the stand as a willing, perjured witness,
to be the only man to attack that loan be-
sides Adry, and he swore before you that
Harry said that he had got Miss Ging to
write him letters about the loan. Why?
Because the honest letters had been found
in his possession to verify the loan, places
it beyond human doubt or cavil, that it
was made to guarantee it by the entire
character of Miss Ging, made her an unerr-
ing witness in that of his truthfulness.
Then, in order to destroy that evidence,
this scoundrel and this perjurer were
brought forward to swear for the first time
before you that Harry said that he had
made Miss Ging write him letters about the
loan. -
What are you going to make Miss Ging?
How are you going to contemplate her?
What are you going to recognize her as, as
she moves through this transaction and on
to her mysterious death? Hypnotized —was
the first theory discovered by the
learned Friar Odell. There has
been a craze within the last two or
three months to haul into criminal cases
hypnotic theories. A court in Kansas at-
tempted to sustain an hypnotic theory, only
to have it kicked out by theappellate
court. Instantly there rose up all over the
world the mesmerists and hypnotists, and
everything commenced to be hypnotic, and
the distinguisher friar poured it into the
ears of his client, and he was hypnotized.
Do you recollect on the stand how he led
you to believe he was hypnotized? No
power of mind—compelled to do it—no
memory of events. Memory came after-
wards. Blots out and wipes out previous
statements made in full health, and in full
memory, differing entirely both in their
manner and the subject matter, and as to
persons, from statements afterwards made.
Wiping out the blackboard and writing it
full again. Again wiping it out, and writ-
ing it full again, and wiping it out and
writing it full again with additions and em-
bellishments to suit the exigiencies of this
prosecution.
What are you going to do with that wit-
ness? Believe him? Would you believe him
if he slandered your boy—just slandered?
Would you believe him if he slandered
your clerk, your associate, your acquaint-
ance? Would and could you believe him?
By what strange infatuation could you do
it? Has mind gone down before the tidal
wave and howled for a victim, or does
it still stand up here above the breakers?
Is the jury box still safe for American
citizenship? Yes. Still to conserve and pre-
serve the liberty and the citizen. Or have
you by long confinement come to be so
morbid that all that is needed is to tele-
phone in your ear words coming from a
source you know to be a liar, and be false
and you will believe him? “Told me that
he caused Miss Ging to write him letters.”
Poor, unhappy woman. And shameful it
would be to cover her name with obloquy,
and shameful it would be to sustain this
contradicting perjurer, this scene shifter,
this changer, and make her a criminal and
a liar and deceive her.
Well, that wasn’t all. Wherever Blixt.
has been wanted,
THEY HAVE USED HIM.
Goosman came forward and testified, al-
though not friendly to Harry, touched with
suspicion against Harry; Goosman came
forward and said, “She told me not to let
Harry know that I had a horse out.”
That was a fatal answer, coming from the
dead woman's own lips, that he was to
meet her. It was destructive of the testi-
mony of Mrs. Hazelton, that she had an


462
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
engagement with Hayward. Goosman,
when the rig was hired, was told by Miss
Ging, “Don’t let Harry know.” That must
be explained. Where is the mule? Bring
him up; I want to load him with another
perjurer. He has gone, anyhow, and peni-
tence will cover it all. Therefore, Blixt.
came forth before you, and for the first
time in his life he testified that Harry told
him that he had told her to tell Goosman
not to say anything about that he knew
she was out. These are some of the addi-
tions, some of the embellishments, some of
the creations of this murderer's mind to
carry out his plot, whether it was with
Adry or another, to put this murder or
poor Miss Ging on her best friend, Harry
Hayward, because, as Miss Wachtler testi-
fied before you, Harry was always with
Miss Ging; because he was the one to
throw it on. Can you believe him? Can
you sit down by yourselves, drop your eyes
down to the ground and think a moment,
and use the very best energies, the best
mind you have got, and say what would
I do in such a case, with such a man, with
a common man, a neighbor. I could not
believe him, nor can you. You can not
deceive your consciences of your minds,
my dear friends, by any slight, or any
lack of consideration of these embellish-
ments, these additions, these falsehoods,
and these perjuries.
That you will do what your best mind
and what your best soul bids you do, I
know and I believe. I argue to you from
the conviction that is upon my mind that
I cannot see how you can possibly use this
lying tale of Blixt as any evidence of what
he saw or what he heard, so that coming
through a true source, a veracious source,
with eyes of truth and with ears of truth
you could say before these people and be-
fore your God now and forever, I am com-
pelled to believe Claus A. Blixt. I do be-
lieve him. I don’t believe you can say
that.
Now, what was Blixt's statement and tes-
timony as to the motives and inducements
for committing this murder? How de-
lightful it must be to you, gentlemen of the
jury, to carefully consider this testimony.
How delightful it must be to you if you
can find a way out from sentencing a fel-
low man to death. When your suspicions
are touched or aroused as to the perjured
character of the main witness of the case,
how delightful must be your entertain-
ment here in 10oking down into every por-
tion of this testimony in order to explore
as to whether it is true, or whether it is
false, and a true judgment make in regard
to it. Now, in the first statement Mr.
Blixt said, “You know what I want you
to set fire to the barn for?” And he said,
“No, I do not.” And Harry said, “Well,
do you know that is just what I want; to
prove what nerve you have got. Then he
asked me if I wanted to make $2,000, and
I said yes, and then he told me how he
could make this girl go anywhere, and he
said I was going to lead her some money,
and I can get all the money back, and
then she will will her life insurance to
me, and after she is killed you will get
the money.” This is a statement which is
made, you understand, on the 9th of De-
cember, six days after the murder, when
all the questions of the life insurance were
out, and the world was
THINKING HARRY GUILTY.
because of his possession of the assign-
ments of the insurance policies. The
amount was well known at $10,000. “So he
set the day, and he said, ‘Now, this day
you have got to do it.' I said I won't do
it. If you speak about this any more I
will quit right now.' 'Well,” he said, ‘you
know what I want to have you set the
barn for?' he says again, because you
can’t turn evidence against me now; be-
cause you will get 10 years in state's pris-
on if you do. Now if you don't come to my
terms," he says, “your life is in danger.
You are just as much in danger as you
would be if you should come and kill
her.’” Well, this was Saturday night. In
one statement he said that this conversa-
tion took place on Saturday night, on Dec.
1, as Saturday proved to be. “Then he said
to me, now tomorrow I’m going to kill
her.’ ” That was Sunday night. “When
We got to that time, he said, ‘well, I am
going to wait until tomorrow night, but
tomorrow night it is going to be. You take
the girl and go right out on the west side
of Lake Calhoun and stop anywhere there,
and you will see me in the buggy when I
come along,’ ” etc. When he got down to
the second statement, it had been discover-
ed by the public that Catherine Ging rode
out on Tuesday night, and Saturday night
alone. Mr. Blixt then invents the story of the
Saturday night drive, and to give it color
he puts the iron in Harry's possession,
that piece of iron. “I will take her out and
kill her with this iron. This was on Sat-
urday night.” Now I am reading to you
what he said in his first statement, and
he says nothing about that Saturday night
transaction; nothing about that iron
transaction; nothing about he is going to
kill her himself that Saturday night. In
the second statement, in order to explain
her mysterious rides, and to put Harry in-
to it, in accordance with the plot, he puts
him in. Why didn't he do it in the first?
In the first he said Harry killed the woman
and brought the body to him. That he
made a clean breast of it. Why didn’t he
say that the Saturday before, Harry took
the woman out with the piece of iron, and
asked him to kill her? Why didn't he tell
that then? Because it wasn’t known then,
and he didn’t know then that she had ever
taken a ride out on Saturday night.
Mr. Hall—Read page 5 of the first state-
ment.
Mr. Erwin–He put this as on Saturday
night. “Well, this was Saturday night.
That is the night he told I want to have
you set fire to that barn he says again be-
cause you can’t turn evidence against me.
‘Now if you don’t come to my terms, your
life is in danger; you are in as much dan-
ger as you would be if you would come and
kill her.’ ” This was Saturday night. He
don’t tell any such thing as that now. He
tells now that Harry went out there to try
to kill her. He tells an entirely different
story in relation to that night, and it is
evident to you how he comes to change;
why he changes, and why he said as he
did.
Then in the first statement he says that
on Monday he told him to go out to the
west side of Lake Calhoun and stop any-
wheres there, and you will see me in the
buggy when I come along, and you take
her and hold her back until I come back




OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 463
down town.’ ” Now in the second state-
ment he said he came in, I think it was
5 o'clock, and he had this whisky with him
then. Then he told me ‘‘ ‘this is good. I
said I wouldn't take it.” Then he said, “He
made up a plan that I should go only a
block apart, and then when I got down
at the place where he told me to go, I
should go up to the buggy; and
he told me what I should tell;
that I would take the rig and
go, and I will meet you, and then we will
change horses. Between 5 and 6 he
brought me the revolver. He said “I have
got this loaded with a different kind of
cartridges; when you have shot you take
these shorts out and give the six of the
other kind that belongs to this revolver—
take those long ones out.' I left there at
6:45; I walked out in the hall, and when
I came to the hall there he stood, and
said “Hurry up now and go on; I will be
right after,’ ”
Now in the testimony he says differently.
He says the first time he spoke of killing
Miss Ging was on the evening of the 24th
of November. “He said “I am going to kill
her; I am going to take her down town
to gamble, and she will gamble as high
as a thousand dollars.” He said he was
going to kill her, and that he would make
about ten thousand out of it. In the next
conversation he said he was going to have
her take out a horse and go out riding.
Some days afterwards, perhaps the next
evening after, he said I am going to have
her go down to the stable and take out a
horse, and then I will meet her at Central
Park. He told me in the mean time he
was going to have her take out a horse.
I am going to have her take out a fast
horse, and he said I will take out a horse
and take a ride myself, and go out some-
where where there is some rocks near a
road, and I will throw her against the
rocks, and that will look like an accident.
He asked me to go to St. Paul and buy an
overcoat, a revolver and slouch hat”—an
invention—“I said I wouldn’t do any such
thing. That was Saturday.”
Look at he different circumstances and
things on Saturday now, from Saturday in
the statement. Look at the additions of
the purchase of
THE EREVOLVER AND THE SLOUCH
HAT;
the different conversations about the fast
horse and taking her out, in order to be
in collusion and en rapport with Adry's
story about the fast horse and boulder,
and whether she would fall forwards or
backwards. Trying to put themselves hand
in hand, the Siamese twins of this prose-
cution. “So he cut the 'T' rail, but didn't
tell me what it was for. Saturday evening
before he left he wanted me to go down
town and steal a horse. Said he would
take the lady, and take her out to a place
where there was a sewer with an iron
top; he would drop some money in the
sewer, and make her go off more and hit
her in the head with the iron, and I should
be watching this, and after he hit her with
the iron he would start the horse on a
runaway and after it started off he wanted
me to come up and drive off.” -
When this man told these things to you
on the stand you necessarily burned with
horror, but when you find that he has
told his story twice before, and never told
these things, what do you burn with?
What do you say of this witness when I
confront him with his former declaration:
when I bring him to the criterion and rule
which you lay down that his previous
statements must be in accordance with
those upon the stand or you will discard
them? When I show you he has invented
an entirely different story on three occa-
sions, what will you say about his testi-
mony? “The same night he asked me to
run the elevator until 9 o'clock, and when
he came in at night he wanted me to ask
if he had two revolvers, a jackknife, a
watch, a pair of gloves, and two hand-
kerchiefs. I ran the elvator, and he came
back about 9 o'clock and said, ‘You need
not ask me any question, I could not kill
her; I could not make it an accident.’ ”
Why, at that very moment, Harry was
down town Saturday night. He gave his
direction, the saloon he went into, and got
the ale or the giriger beer, his walks were
given to the state, and they could not
contradict "nim. He was met by Mrs.
Walker, ºlid by Mrs. Lowell that same
night, and that same night Kate Ging
says, “Goosman don't tell Harry I am
out.” Was it that night or Monday night.
Mr. Shoemaker—Saturday night.
Mr. Erwin–Saturday night, that same
night, Kate Ging tells Goosman, “Don’t tell
Harry I am out.” He is down town. He is
met by two reputable witnesses, and this
infernal liar tells you that he ran the ele-
vator until 9 o'clock, and then he came in
and says, you need not ask me any ques-
tions, I could not kill her, I could not make
it an accident, “and he took out four
handkerchiefs, and all the four corners were
torn off, and he took out two of these
handkerchiefs and threw them in the fire.”
What a creation. What a perjury. What a
penitent man this is. How his penitence
does run out in perjury. If this is repent-
ance, I don’t want any of it. If this is to be
the result of his canting, I don’t want it.
You don’t want it, and you cannot afford
to have it. You are on your guard that this
man went down, according to his first
statement, and met the woman dying, and
was told not to leave her until she was
dead. You are on your guard by Miss
Wachtler, that Blixt himself said in her
presence, “Adry and I put up the job to
kill this woman.” You are on your guard
in every way as to the
UNRELIABILITY OF HIS STATEMENT
and his story. You have seen it here prov-
ed to you by the statements that he chang-
ed and changed and changed, added and
added and added, embellished, attacked the
loan, put the words in Harry's mouth, that
he said he told her to tell Goosman not
to say that she was out, and traduced the
dead. And you know just as well as you
know anything that he has testified to
this under an expectation of having his
life spared. You know that he was criticiz-
ed on all these statements, and maintained
them. You know he will make another
statement by and by, a true statement by
and by, and tell the truth about this mys-
terious murder, and you are on guard that
you do not act hastily here. That reason-
able doubt now comes and confronts you.
Heaven acts, but it acts with men through
mind. Heaven is directing your mind. As
your mind ponders on these things, you









464
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
know that men do these things or these
things are false. Your mind is wavering
whether you will discard them all. You
are told by your mind, which is the act of
God—not this perjured testimony the act
of God, but the working of your mind is
by the grace and act of God. You are put
upon your guard that this man is a per-
jurer. Oh, how terrible it would be, how
terrible it would be, if along the lines of
this free nation your brother and mine,
your son, your friend, could be sent by a
hasty jury down to death upon the testi-
mony of this exposed, caught, ascertained,
weighed, demonstrated, murderous per-
jurer. That is the issue in this case. All
other issues sink into insignificance besides
that, whether in that old jury box, which
for the last 15 centuries has stood against
the assaults of power, sophistry, necro-
mancy of all kinds and characters,
whether it will yield now in this republic,
or whether it will act in a deliberate,
Christian, merciful, honorable and truthful
spirit, and fearlessly do its duty, under
the testimony.
“I have got you by an affidavit to burn
the barn and your life is in danger. You
have got to do it.” Well, gentlemen, if
that was the motive, why not let it re-
main the motive? Why change it? That
was his statement as I just read it to you.
Now what did he swear to before you? He
says: “It makes no difference for you to
say no; you will have to help me. If you
don’t I will have to kill you. If you help
me you are all right; if you don't you are
not all right. I didn’t pay much attention
to what he said about killing me. He says,
*Come here. Now I don’t believe in your
wife. I think it was a good thing if she
wasn’t living, and I want to kill your
wife because I am afraid she might hurt
both you and me.' I said, ‘No, I am not
afraid of my wife, she don't know any-
thing, and I will not tell her anything.’
I said, ‘Harry, whatever you do, don't hurt
my wife. That is all right, whatever you
do, don't hurt my wife,” and he said, “if
you come to me and do what I want you
to do, your wife is all right, and if you
don’t she is not.’ I said, ‘You can do
what you want to do with me, but don’t
touch my wife.” He said, ‘You — —
coward’—he noticed I was crying—he said,
you are nothing but a coward, and your
conscience is bothering you.' I said “Don’t
hurt my wife; I will try to defend my wife
as long as I live, and whatever you do
promise me not to hurt my wife.’ And he
says, “If you come to my wishes and do
what I will tell you to do your wife is all
right, and you are all right,’ and I said,
*Do whatever you want to do with me,
but don't hurt my wife;’ and he said, ‘Go
and do what I tell you to do, and your
wife is all right.' I says, “All right, Harry,
I will do whatever you say.’”
If that was the motive, why didn’t he
state it in the first place? If that was the
motive why didn't he state it in the sec-
ond statement? How silly and how ridicu-
lous that whole thing is to you. If Harry
Hayward threatened to kill this man's
wife, one word from Blixt, and Harry
Hayward went in prison. Blixt knew this.
If Harry ever said such a thing Blixt knew
he was in his power, not Blixt in Harry's
power. What a shameful thing. Where did
it come from? It came from the hypnotic
theory. It was introduced with the hyp-
notic theory, do you see, to show that the
mind weakens when a suggestion was made
of pain to others. It was in accordance
with the law of hypnotism, to be testified
to by the distinguished expert on hypno-
tism. If it had been true, it had been in
the first statement where he made a clean
breast of it. If it had been true, it certain-
ly would have been in the second state-
ment which cleaned up all that was not
cleaned up in the first statement. But no,
he had to be shown to be under hypnotic
influence, under the power of necromancy,
to be powerless, to be in a condition which
was the result of poison in the whisky.
Did you see them try to prove that by im-
putation? “Did you not put poison or
drugs in the whisky?” “I smelt some-
thing peculiar,” said Blixt's wife. “A per-
culiar smell.” On that peculiar smell and
this peculiar suggestion affecting these pe-
culiar sensibilities in relation to the wife,
the hypnotic theory was to be formed.
What a vain invention when held up and ex-
posed before you, and shows, gentlemen,
that you cannot trust Claus A. Blixt.
The court will tell you that as an accom-
plice you must receive his testimony with
great care and caution, and this is the
care and caution: Subject it to inquiry and
comparison with his former statements;
subject it to the cardinal rule that his
statements, if to be believed by you in
this august decision of life and death, must
be consistent and always the same, and
where will you come out as honest men?
It does seem to me that you cannot help
to discard the testimony of Claus A. Blixt.
in every particular where it is not corrob-
orated and confirmed. This, gentlemen of
the jury, appears to be the direct result
of a careful, fair and honest analysis of
his own statement as taken in the history
of this case, and the character of the ex-
igencies.
(Court here adjourned until the following
morning at 10 o'clock.)
MORNING SESSION, MARCH 7.
(Mr. Erwin Resuming.)
May it please the court, gentlemen, the
only excuse I have for taking up so much
of your valuable time is the fact that it
is utterly impossible to attempt to cover
and mention in the most casual way all
the elements of this testimony without tak-
ing time. You must remember that we have
been nearly six weeks taking testimony
constantly, as fast as men could talk, and
the topics in the testimony are long, are
numerous, and to treat them and refer
to them in the slightest possible way re-
quires much longer time than in ordinary
cases in court. I will, as rapidly and just as
briefly as I think it proper and honorable
to my client, and proper towards you, hast-
en through this case, so that you may take
it and decide it and be relieved from your
labors.
We commence again at the point where
we left off in the discussion of the logic
of this case. I would like earnestly to call
your attention to the great primal truth
which has been slowly marching through
the centuries since Christ came. All the
world was slave when Christ came; slave
in physical labor and slave in mental econ-
omy. The highest point mind had reached
under divine direction had been to simply
attempt to obey the laws of the command-






OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 465
ments which God had told men must fol-
low. But the liberty of the mind
was a. matter undreamed of, un-
thought of. Since His coming, the birth or
dawn of the soul has been constantly com-
ing up before the visions and
minds of men. At first,
as the soul began to dawn upon the minds
of men, it increased that feeling, that con-
sciousness, increased men's devotion to
moral law and made him such a strict fol-
ower or the lines of the law and not the
spirit of the law that a man by asceticism
for a time lost liberty of action. But little
by little, after struggle upon struggle, the
human race began to emerge from the men-
tal and moral slavery which hung over the
minds of men, and the sunburst which
made it possible for men to see in our
liberty as God intended that men should
have liberty, came by reason of the gath-
ered forces of free men, who from
their souls sent out to all the world the
Declaration of Independence of the state.
What was that declaration? Not in its
political sense, for I do not intend to call
attention to anything of that character;
but in its moral sense, what was it? It
was this: Behind the declaration lies this
great primal truth, which was the reason
of the declaration, the immediate reason of
it, and which is the reason today of our
advance. It was this: That common
sense, nothing more nor nothing less than
common sense, must be the true criterion
of all things in man’s life. The mysteries
of God’s laws are no longer held up be-
fore men as the reason for man’s service
of his law. Mankind has began to follow
God’s laws in accordance with the dictates
of their common sense and not their super-
stitions and their fear. That we can as
a race rise higher than our common sense
was always the abysmall error of men.
That we had walked in by and through
common sense, in accordance with the
conditions in which we are created, has
come now to be understood by our
race, and so in every department of
life; we have begun in each department—
in peace, in deliberation, in carefulness,
to reform all the tyrannies, all the cruel-
ties, all the wickedness which exists in
each particular system. And mankind are
walking up the steep towards God; walk-
ing up the steep towards brotherly love,
walking up the steep towards a fraternal
government, following the white banner
of the risen Christ, who is today the
North Star of all human thought. But
guided only by their common sense; and
the definition of liberty, which will ulti-
mately prevail and which must prevail.
in the mind and souls of men, will be
simply this: That liberty, human liberty
in all its senses, mental, moral, physical,
political, personal conscious in every way,
liberty is but the untrammeled exercise of
common Sense.
IF YOU USE THAT CRITERION
in this trial, if you lift yourself out of the
imaginative and fanciful picture which the
mind brings you in regard to conditions
that may affect society, which may affect
the public mind, or which may affect your-
selves; if you are easy, if you put your-
selves right and act in the ease
and With the splendor of doing
conscious acts here, under the guidancs
of common sense, what will you do with
Blixt's testimony? You will do with it
just as you would do with like testimony
in the common and ordinary affairs of your
life. You will put no credience in it; which
naturally honest minds will of themselves,
by no exercise of mercy, pity, sympathy or
anything else, but in a natural way, put
aside instantly this unreliable, incredible
testimony, and if by reason of long con-
finement, if by reason of weeks here of
the reception of testimony which came in
like a tidal wave in its atrocity, not in its
wake, but in its strange cruelty, in its
mysterious idiom—if by reason of all of
these things your minds become morbid,
the time has come to throw off that mor-
bidity in the exercise of common sense,
and now look at this testimony and at this
case just as you would look upon it on the
outside there; to judge it in the natural,
ordinarily, commonly, honest and common-
ly courageous way, no more.
I want to call attention, gentlemen of the
jury, to some of these matters which my
friend, the county attorney, has passed
over with a simple wave of the hand; mat-
ters which are of the utmost importance
and which you are bound to and must con-
sider; giving them no more weight than
they are entitled to, but giving them all
the weight and all the attention they are
entitled to—no more, no less.
The question of the credibility of Claus
A. Blixt is the very focal point of this
mental struggle which you now have in
your minds. I realize that, and I am try-
ing now to aid you, to the very best of my
ability, in analyzing the testimony and the
evidence, so that from a consideration of
the testimony and the evidence you can see
whether that man's story is credible, ought
to be believed, in this solmen matter which
is put upon you to decide.
Claus A. Blixt is contradicted, not only
by himself, contradicted not only by innum-
erable differences, vast, irreconcilable dif-
ferences, when you come to consider the
character of his mind, made in his former
statement, but on the witness stand here
before you he exhibited that careless char-
acter in regard to the exact truth, in re-
gard to what the exact truth of what he
himself had said had been done, and what
he had ascribed as motive. Do you recol-
lect that I asked him whether he didn’t
ascribe the motive in the first confession
to the fact that Adry was testifying? Did
he not absolutely deny before you that he
had ever said any such thing, and didn’t
Mr. Hitehcock, the stenographer, go on
the stand and didn’t he produce in his tes-
timony this reproduced statement of Blixt's
own words? In all the impeachment ques-
tions which I asked him, and which I will
not take up the time to go over now, did
he not say to the majority of them “No”
Does not the written statement read in
your hearing contradict his answers “No?”
Proving to you that this man Blixt upon
the stand, when his mind is called directly
and specifically to his former statements,
right in the face of the statement itself,
when that statement violated the posture
and condition of the present testimony,
dared to answer “No, no, no,” and yet he
has been contradicted by Mr. Hitchcock;
and those statements which are contradict.
ory in former statements—those parts of
this testimony which were contradictory in
the former statements, but which were of
-

466 - OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
which is found to be in
a truthful character, not fastening upon
him the fact that
HE WAS PERJURING HTMSELE:
by mathematical precision, how did he get
around those things? “Have you got it in
the paper there?” he said. “Yes.” “Well,
then I may have said it.” “I may have
said it.” “You see, gentlemen,” he Says,
"you see, I had no mind then; you see I
didn't have my mind then. My mind didn’t
come back to me until this statement to
my attorney. He has got it in that state-
ment. If you take that statement there,
Mr. Erwin, you will see it. He has got it
in my statement there.” And then I asked
the attorney to hand me the statement,
and I was rebuked by the court. I exploded
there before you this posture that this man
took to explain his contradictions. Now, in
the light of comon sense, right before your
own eyes, is an explanation and a demon-
stration of the character of a man who
dared under oath, who dared under such
circumstances, shift, evade, plant his jus-
tification in the statement to an attorney,
violation of all
these other statements, whether on the wit.
ness stand or in the statement made to the
officers twice before. How can you view
such testimony as that? Bring that to the
rule and criterion of common sense, and
you must discard it. Treat it with the sus-
picious and cringing morbidity, using it as
a stilt and means to an end, to prop a ver-
dict already found in the mind instead of
to sustain the mind to find a verdict, and
then you do not act with common sense
nor up to the high duties of your trust. I
go over these things at length before you,
not to spur you to act, I have no reason
to doubt what your act will be. But I go
over these things before these people in
your presence that they may understand
when you do act, that you could not have
acted otherwise had you lived up to the
God-given powers of the mind and soul
which you may possess to be jurors.
If Claus A. Blixt's contradictions were in
some other character of the case, and con-
fined to lapses of memory, they might be
passed up trivially, perhaps, by a jury un-
der certain circumstances. But this case is
a different case in murder and accusation
than any you have ever seen tried in this
country before. Mark you, it is not plain
that Harry Hayward was present when the
murder was committed, or was within five
miles of the place where Kate Ging was
murdered. This is not plain. It is not plain
that the blood of Katherine Ging was
found upon his hands, or on his clothes,
or that his tracks were in the vicinity of
the murder, or that he was seen in the
vicinity of the murder, or that he dropped
the body out, or that he drove the horse
home, or anything, either in manner or
in means, by which the cruel murder of
Kitty Ging was committed. That is not
charged here. In ordinary murder cases ac-
complices are charged with a direct partici-
pation in the circumstances, manner and
means of the crime; and in that case slight
corroboration of a confessing accomplice is
deemed enough sometimes by the reviewing
courts to sustain verdicts of guilty. But
this is an entirely different case from that.
This is a case where it is admitted on the
one side that Claus A. Blixt alone, without
any one else with him, murdered Catherine
Ging; and claimed on the other side, from
the testimony as shown, that Claus A.
Blixt and another, unknown, committed
that murder. And the danger in this case
cºmes right in there—that you in your mis-
take by error will view this case, this chair-
acter of a charge of murder, as you would
another charge where the person was di-
rectly implicated and there was some evi-
dence to show in the present or with the
means of murder. For, don't you see
HOW DANGEROUS IT IS
to permit two men to conspire together
and accomplish the murder of a given per-
son, like Catherine Ging–Adry and Blixt_
do you not see how dangerous it is to per-
mit them and them alone, by
their word alone, without a single
physical corroboration, to take you or me.
or Harry Hayward, or either one of LIS,
according to their own sweet will, and make
us, by their words and their ipse dixit
alone, the originator, cause and mover of
our acts of murder? Now, I hold that
upon all the lines of logic and of reason
that these two men who have attempted to
put on Harry Hayward the imputation that
he originated this murder, they must be
held to become corroborated, or you must
not believe them. Why, this is a revival
of an ancient, exploded and condemned
practice under some of the early kings of
England. It is the revival of a practice ex-
pressly cancelled out of all human economy
—the economy of civilization by the con-
stitution of our general government and
our state government. It is this: Among
the early kings of England there existed this
practice: Whenever a man was accused of
a murder or other serious crime, he was
brought up before the magistrate and con-
fronted with the accusation. Say, for ex-
ample, I am brought up before the magis-
trate and I am confronted with on accu-
sation of murder. Under the practice at
that time for the purpose, as they called
it, of discovering the criminal, I was per-
mitted, upon being charged with murder,
to say to the magistrate, “Mr. Timberlake
and Mr. Dickey were the men engaged
with me. They urged me on and they were
off in the background; had gone of to
establish an alibi; but on days before that
I had met them at such and such a place,
and we had agreed to make the arrange-
ments of this crime and I was to receive
such and such a share of the fruits of this
crime and they were to receive the bal-
ance.” Now, gentlemen, look what a dan-
gerous thing that was, and yet it was the
practice. It was called the doctrine of ap-
provement, and that charge made by me
against myself nominated the accomplices;
not nominated, however, by circumstances
and suspicious things which drew innocent
men in with me; but nominated from this
fount of crime, this one who did commit
the crime nominated by me, his accomplice,
and placed upon trial. And strange to say,
it was the practice of that empire at that
tiºne, that if those two men were convicted
by my testimony I escaped. Until the
barons wrote the Magna Charta, and that
splendid barrier was raised up between
this exercise of power and liberty. Now,
what is done here? In defiance of the prin-
ciples of the constitution, in defiance of
the principles of investigation contained in
the office of the grand jury, Claus A. Blixt.
and Adry Hayward, acting jointly, as I
believe—not fully, but as the testimony
leads me to believe—but at least such act-






OF THE HAYWARD MURDER TRIAL. 467
ing on his own part he, upon being arrest-
ed, nominates, and Adry nominates, Harry
Hayward as the originator of that crime
which one confessed to be the actual mur-
derer and the other confessed to be an
accessory before the fact and without any
evidence before the grand jury as to the
truth of this story, Harry Hayward was
put upon trial through the prostitution of
the powers of the grand jury, under the
special agreement that if this man Blixt.
shall succeed in convicting Harry Hayward
they (Blixt and Adry) shall receive clem-
ency and
AN INNOCENT MAN SHALL HANG.
Now, if you love English liberty, if you
love the safeguards of liberty, if you want
to hand down to your children the safe-
guards which you have received by toil
back through the centuries, stamp your
foot upon this doctrine of approvement,
putting its old, discarded head back from
the very heart and center of the active
splendid economy of your freedom. Do
that, not to stamp upon it approvement,
but do it as the law requires you to act.
Compel Blixt and Adry to bring you some
corroboration; corroboration enough with
the fact of Harry Hayward's actions, and
the fact that he induced it is not sufficient-
ly proved without their testimony, using
them only for the circumstances of that
encraochment; and on the other hand hold
Blixt and hold Adry Hayward to the cri-
tigism of common honest minds, in the
action of your own common sense, and do
not let this self-confessed murderer and
self-confessed accessory before the fact,
don’t let them under a hope of exculpation
use one of the two beams which criminals
always use, either by confessing to escape
punishment, or confessing to extenuate
their guilt. In this case both have con-
fessed to extenuate their guilt, to
shift the responsibility for their guilt.
Don’t let them do it, unless their words
are such that they carry your minds and
souls to a belief in their credibility; don't
use their eyes and their ears as your
eyes and your ears to be sanctified
by your oath as true, unless you find out
by the most careful criticism that it is
true.
Therefore, gentlemen, it will not do to
pass in silence and with a wave of the
hand over all of these circumstances con-
nected with the commission of this crime
which can throw light upon the question
as to whether Mr. Blixt tells the truth or
tells a lie. You yourselves have seen by
critical examination of his testimony that
it is suspicious in the highest degree.
Let me therefore call your minds as
briefly as possible and as rapidly as pos-
sible to some of these wonderful contra-
dictions which lie upon this case.
Now, first, where was the body found?
Recollect the body was found on the road.
No one was near it. A buggy was seen
about a block or two from there, driving
away. No one else was seen. Now, the
condition in which that body was found,
and the appearance of the ground about
it, are all we have got to go upon to find
out and ascertain who did this deed, out-
side of Mr. Blixt's story. Now, let us see
whether that should be passed up without
remark. Sergeant Getchell, who is
a police officer of this city, re-
ceived orders from the police department
to take his deputies and proceed down to
the place where the body lay, and thor-
oughly investigate and examine as to any
tracks or any evidence that might there
be found in relation to the body. He tes-
tified that he got to the place where the
body lay about 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock, and
he found the tracks of two buggies and
the patrol wagon. One buggy turned just
above the patrol wagon, and one about 40 or
50 feet the other side of the body. It turned
to the left, came around and turned again
a little to the right, came into the beaten
track this side of where the body lay.
Now, this investigation was had after the
patrol had been there, after Dr. Russell
had been there, after the crime had been
committed, after everything had been done.
They were provided with bull's eye lan-
terms, a cloud of light, and all the police
officers testified to, and were careful and
considerate to find out just what the con-
ditions were. They saw just where the
patrol wagon was this side of where the
body lay, and they saw where Dr. Rus-
sell's buggy turned just the other side of
where the body lay. This
AGREES AND HARMONIZES
With the testimony of young Russell, the
doctor's son, when he testified that when
he stopped the horse he stopped it away
or nearly behind where the patrol
Wagon Was, a few feet behind
where it stood, and the patrol
W880n stood this side of the buggy a con-
siderable distance; and after they examined
the body they drove the patrol wagon up
and put the body in it put it in before it
turned around. He went back after the
body had been taken away, back where
the patrol wagon had originally stood, to
where his buggy was standing, and he
and his father got in and drove up 40 or
50 feet from where they were and turned
around. That is just what the distance
was. They turned around near and just
beyond where the patrol wagon turned
around. It is testified here by Getchell,
and by all these officers, that this buggy
turned further south on the Excelsior road
could not have been Russell's buggy or
any other buggy that is known of in this
case, unless it was the buggy that Claus
A. Blixt claimed Miss Ging was put in.
Now, look what they say. It is not to be
cast up; this is not to be discarded. This
is the beginning of the investigation in
your minds as to the credibility of Claus
A. Blixt, from the contemplation of out-
lying circumstances, My notes are taken
distinctly from the evidence, and if I mis-
quote the evidence in any way, I desire to
be corrected. I have it abstracted in the
words in which it was given. Where the
buggy turned—that is, this buggy which is
not Dr. Russell's—50 or 100 feet beyond
where the body lay there were two places
that looked like people had stopped and
tramped around. After the buggy got into
the street, there were footprints of nar-
row, pointed shoes going down there about
10 feet on this side of the body, where they
left the road; where the buggy track
turned it looked as if the buggy stopped
and the wheel was cramped up, and there
were quite a few shoe tracks around there,
as if somebody had stopped between the
wheels where the buggy was cramped. No
man on earth can understand this testi-
mony better than you, gentlemen, who are



468 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
farmers, and who are used to traveling on
the highway necessitated to travel, necessi-
tated to watch the appearange of the ground
in relation to your cattle and in relation
to wagons, and in relation to everything
occurring in your life in that particular in-
dustry. Of all men on earth you know
that if the track shows where a wagon
had cramped and that the people had gone
in there and tramped around in the track
of the wagon, that they whispered. You
know that better than anybody else. Be-
cause there is no need of going into the
tramping of the wheels standing there un-
less this intercourse is confidential, and
people don’t go in there except under these
circumstances. Now, if Mr. Blixt's story
is true, that he turned around, the wagon
track says he stopped and cramped his
wheel there. The testimony of Getchell
and of the police officers—and there were
four that fixed it before vou-that in that
cramped wheel between the opening made
by the cramping of the wheel upon the
other side there stood some one and their
tracks were there as if they had stood and
talked. This does not depend on Harry
Hayward or any friend of Harry Hay-
ward's. This is the testimony of the state
itself, operating in its own best economy
in the investigation of crime. There is no
explaining that. You cannot hunt for pos-
sible explanations. You must take proper
explanations, and if the matters can prob-
ably be explained you need not pay much
attention to it. But there is no probable
explanation for this circumstance except
the one claimed, and that is that other
persons than whoever was in that buggy
stopped there and talked; and that from
that point where they stopped and talked
the man with pointed shoes walked down
towards where the body lay. I lay no par-
ticular stress upon any pointed tracks
which were on the road opposite the body,
although they were testified to. They add,
to a certain degree, to the testimony of
THE POINTED SHOES
which were in the tramped part of the
road going down from where the tracks
were in the cramp of the wagon; but they
are in no way certain, in no way connect-
ed. They were simply similar and might
have been made by any other feet. I want
to be perfectly fair on that. I do not
claim that these tracks which were on
the side of the buggy and went
up in the brush, I do not ask you to give
that significance. But I submit to you that
you would, it seems to me explain under
the testimony of all the persons who were
there that night, how, 50 or 100 feet beyond
where the body lay, 40 or 50 feet beyond
where Russell turned his wagon, those
opening wheels permitted a man to stand
between them, and the sharp-pointed shoe
track went down from that place towards
where the body was.
Here are physical evidences which are
stronger than men's word.
Mr. Blixt says there was no one with
him; that he committed this deed alone.
Here is one circumstance, at least, begun
to be piled up here against that declaration
that he was alone. If you were alone, Mr.
Blixt, how do you account for these tracks
which walk up between the open wheels
of your buggy and talk to you? You can-
not pass that up. You have got to take
that into consideration.
Now, I want to call your attention to
Blixt's contradiction in relation to the
shots that were fired. And I want you to
hold Claus A. Blixt to a full explanation
of everything that took place in regard to
that murder. You subject him now to
criticism, and the shots are very important
things, for the simple reason that there is
no mistaking them. Memory cannot mis-
take them. I do not care how perturbed
his condition may be, he cannot mistake
or disturb those things, nor when they
occurred.
When you come to consider the pool of
blood, as it will be afterwards discussed
before you—as you discuss it—which Dr.
Russell testified lay under the head of
this woman, a foot in diameter, you will
see that the best evidence and the best
judgment upon the evidence in this case
is that that woman was shot there; and
these things taken together give great
significance to the testimony in relation to
the shots in this trial. Matters which you
cannot weigh down and fill with
a. recitation from Shakespeare
in regard to Hubert’s putting
out the eyes of Prince Arthur. You have
to come to look ºn the yes of this evidence.
You have to handle it, and leave for the
future poet to write a poem upon it, and
not to attempt to decide this case by pass-
ing your mind away from the testimony,
as you regard the music and the splendor
of this poem.
Claus A. Blixt swears that he shot this
woman a mile from where the big trees
were, and Mr. Eidan is brought forward
and testified that on that night he was
watching and he heard the shot, and after-
wards heard a rig come in, and heard
voices, could not tell whether men or wom-
en, from that wood. -
Now, the blood, the blood in the bugg
and the innumerable little bands of wit-
nesses here in relation to the shots con-
tradict Mr. Blixt.
Lizzie Naegle, you recollect Mrs. Naegle
upon the witness stand; a lady of the
most splendidly refined appearance; you
could not help but be impressed with the
consummately truthful character of her
testimony impressed you, I have no
doubt as one of the ladies who appeared
in this court room, one of the ladies who
stand upon the plane with the peerless
Miss Ireland and the peerless sister, Julia
Ging. You may not have noticed the dif-
fernt appearances of these witnesses, and
Mrs. Naegle, from her appearance, lady
like and gentle, but with perfect command
of her mind, so as to make no incoherent
mistake or bashful mistake, testified as
follows: “Between 7:55 and 8:10 heard a
shot; the first being louder than the sec-
ond; about an hour later Mr. Erhardt
came in the house. Between the ewo shots
heard a sound like a scream.”
Here is only slight evidence; here is only
a woman, delicate, a refined woman, a
sensitwe woman. Here is her ear, and she
sits in there, in this room adjacent to this
road near by; here is only her ear to guide
you, but she hears two shots, she thinks,
and between the two sounds she thought
she heard a scream.
Go back in your minds to the first state-
ment made by Claus A. Blixt. Contem-
plate him in making that first statement,
as desirous simply of putting it on Harry
in accordance with his bargain with Adry,

OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
469
and in all other respects confining himself
nearly to the truth, and what does he say?
He says, “The man who killed Catherine
Ging brought me the body, and told me
to be sure and do not leave her until she
is dead. Give me time to get back in
town.” Here in the construction of per-
jury it was confined simply to a change
in the personality of the accomplices,
changing it from the one who was there
to Harry, and the mind off guard slips
out the truth, which is proved by the
testimony of Mrs. Naegele. The body of
Catherine Ging was brought to him in its
dying throes. He did not stay with that
body until it was dead. He drove out a
mile and back, and it would not do, and 1
found as he says in all his statemnts and
his testimony, “That I would drive it back
into the town if I did not dispose of it
there.” And he disposed of it there by
FIRING INTO THAT DYING WOMAN'S
RAIN
that fatal shot. Close to her head he put
the pistol, instead of where he testifies to,
instead of holding the pistol across his
breast and not taking aim and striking
her by luck, as he testified; and his ina-
bility to understand how he could have
raised that pistol; he put that pistol close
behind her head until the fire from the
pistol scorched her very hair and flesh, and
burned the skin. You know how far the
flame of pistols burn. It is a scientific and
well ascertained fact that no burn can
come from a pistol shot unless held close
to the place where it is burned, the fire
going into the air space. Right close
against the head he held this pistol; this
man who tells you now, excusing himself
and trying to extenuate his murder and to
ºscape punishment, he tells you that he
did it in this way, and struck her head
by luck. He burned the hair of the scalp,
and the wound confronts him. Which will
you believe, the laws of God as shown in
the physical condition of things, or will
you believe Blixt, who has usurped in the
language of the attorney, the spirit and
power of God to tell the truth?
Now, gentlemen, I want to just show you
a formula here, which you can experiment
with in the jury room on these clothes. I
will tell you there were two shots there
where this brute killed this dying girl.
Now, here is a square-shouldered man (il-
lustrating on Mr. Schumaker). I cannot get
any lady to try this coat on, for they would
always remember trying on this unfortu-
mate sack, but now I will try to use this
man here as a person to get this sack on.
This is a cold night, and this is buttoned
up. Now, see how high the collar would
have to be up in order to get this ball here
at this point of the head. Do you see?
There it is. Now, see here. Here is this
shot right here; here is the angle, passing
up to the left eye. Now, the direction,
don't you see, of all the powder must be
right against the head, burning off here and
burning off the skin, don’t you see? Well,
now, here is the other shot, missing the
girl. Put your finger right on here. Here is
where the man said the mark was burned.
Here is where the man that cleaned this
thing swore it was burned. In order that
you can feel it, and see its location, put
your finger here. This shot here could not
have made that there. This shot here was
that. It angled right towards this left eye.
There is the direction, and it never could
have made that powder blaze there. Here
is where he missed the girl in that first
shot. The Almighty God confronts Mr.
Blixt with his law.
Mr. Hall–But the head was turned.
Mr. Erwin–Turn the head as you please.
Put the pistol for this angle of the ball
where you please. There is no place that
you can make the burn upon the collar of
that coat. You can experiment with this—
I shall take up no further time. Here is the
mark where that burning went down, and
that is the angle of that burn. It was testi-
fied to here by the man who cleaned that
coat, and here it is. It confirms Mrs. Na-
gle. It could not be made by the wound be-
hind. One of you men whose figure is like
unto a lady's can put that on. You will
have this revolver, and you can see much
better than I can demonstrate it to you.
I simply call your attention to it at this
time, and I make the claim that there were
two shots fired against the body of that
dying girl who had been pounded to a
jelly by an accomplice of Blixt, and who
had given her body over to him, saying,
“Do not leave her until she is dead; give
me plenty of time to get back to town.”
And that man was not the man sitting in
the theater, unconscious of any part of this
tragedy, or that it was contemplated.
But to make things douply sure, Lizzle
Burch left home to go skating at half-past
7, and walks seven or eight blocks, within
half a block of the lake; heard two shots
in quick succesion coming from the direc-
tion of the tamarack swamp, and she told
you that the difference was only four or
five secodins; shot and shot again.
Gertrude Bond left home at half past 7,
had been at the lake about 20 minutes
when she heard shots in the direction of
the ice-house. She left the lake about
half past 8. Now, I don't recollect, but
you will know, the topography between the
two wharfs; one was Ewing’s wharf, and
the other was the boat house, and there
skating she heard the two shots, but the
direction was a little angular from where
Miss Lillian Burch heard them—not Lizzie.
She corroborates the fact of the two shots,
but does not entirely corroborate the di-
rection. Mrs. Naegele and Lillian Burch
agree as to where they were. Mr. Spring-
stead then comes forward. He was the
companion of Kitty Brown, and says the
shots came from the direction of the tam-
arack swamp. H. C. Stevens left the Lake
of the Isles at five minutes to 8, came part
way to Calhoun, and turnd back, and saw
a top buggy and so on. Mr. Eidam heard
a single shot a mile beyond where the
body was found. Just stop now to con-
template the consituent parts of the story
told by Mr. Blixt in his testimony before
you. Put yourselves as near as you can–
not in his position, but put yourselves near
to him so that you can see what would be
the attitude of his mind, the motive mov-
ing in his mind, and what would be the
inevitable physiological law and action of
the man after he had killed the woman,
and see whether he does not
TELL YOU A LIE,
and the made up story here in order to
cover up whoever his accomplice was. Go
out with Mr. Blixt. Let him go as he says
| from this point right here, and as high as for the purpose of killing Miss Ging with



470
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
the revolver in his hand. Now, mark you,
intending to kill her. Holding the revolver
in his hand for some considerable time, she
talking about it and says “What have you
got there?” “I have got a revolver,” he
explaining that; and finally, after effort
after effort on his mind, he comes to make
an effort which he describes now as being
hardly explainable, how he could do it;
he never could understand how he over-
came his natural repugnance to do this.
Conscience was there, was strong at that
time. Manhood was there, so strong at
that time, according to his story; humanity
was there, so strong that he don't know
how he could do it, or how he did do it, but
he does it. Well, what would a man have
done under such circumstances? Now you
are not to believe anything but that which
is reasonable. If I say to you, gentlemen of
the jury, I can jump through yonder win-
dow onto that court house—I swear to it—
you won’t believe it, for it is not reason-
able. My words do not convince you, but it
is the reasonableness of my words that con-
vince you or fail to convince you of any
given fact. Now his words are false in rea-
son, and in logic. If he was intending to
kill that girl, and had a struggle with mind
and conscience about it, and did it, he
would drop her right there. He would quit
the body right there, or there was some ex-
cuse for his not doing it. Some one must
have come there to have disturbed him,
The necessity of concealment and move-
ment from this place must have intervened,
or the physcological law which God placed
in the minds of men would have moved him
to drop it right there—get rid of it right
there—either by running himself in fear
and dismay and trepidation, or by dropping
her aud running with his horse; and yet he
tells you that story, so impossible, that
after shooting this woman he, with her
dead body falling on him, the blood es-
caping from her wounds, with everything
to excite him, everything to break him
down, he drove with one hand a mile down
that road slowly, turned around—thirty
rods he says, beyond where he shot her—
turned around and rode with her a mile.
Oh, false, unreasonable, ridiculous and ab-
surd testimony. The better and more rea-
sonable theory is that down at those woods
a mile from there, he and his accomplice,
whoever it was, succeeded in beating this
woman. For what purpose their violence
was made, I don’t know, and never will
know; whether for money, or for some
worse and more terrible thing. She was
beaten there almost to death, and this man
said to him, “Don’t leave her now until
she is dead,” and the blood spots on the
buggy show she lay there on her side, the
blood poured from her broken nose, which
was full of clotted blood when she was
afterwards examined by the physician;
blood which had no connection with the
wound made by the pistol. She laid there
until from her broken nose had poured out
a spot of blood upon the right hand side
of that seat 14 inches long, and seven inch-
es across, as thick as a little finger, of
clotted blood, bedraggled hat and hair and
dress. Here is the hat, and here are the
dresses all to show, the buggy all to show,
and this infamous scoundrel led that horse
from where she was beaten and bruised
until he came down into the dark tannarack
swamp, and there, finding her not dead,
shot her twice; once he missed her, then
struck her in the carotid artery, and as she
lay there, the blood which lay above the
carotid artery in the head and from the
trunk of the body, the blood poured out on
the ground, and made that pool one foot
across in diameter. And the theory stands
vouched for by the powder burns upon this
cºat, and vouched for by the testimony of
Mrs. Naegle and Lilian Brown and Mr.
Springstead. Then these disinterested wit.
ness, the living and physical ones, the
wounds themselves, and
THE BLOOD SPOTS AND BRUISES
of the skull and confirming that theory to
the perpetual damnation and eternal de-
struction of this canting hypocrite's lies,
spoken in order to obtain for himself par-
don, launched against an innocent man,
but proved innocent by all the logic of this
case, by every line of thought that is in it.
I beg your pardon for more than suggesting
to you these things.
I want you to take into consideration,
gentlemen of the jury, the testimony here
in regard to the blood in the buggy. Now
you recollect when the buggy was brought
in here it had been washed and cleaned up,
and you further recollect that when you
examined Claus A. Blixt you gentlemen
discovered, one of you, on the left hand
side I think it was, two or three little spots
of blood here, down below the pocket of
the coat, and that was all the blood you
could find upon him; two or three little
spatters here. These were not made by the
coat resting in blood or against blood, but
they were spatter marks and were only
confined I think to three or four. You gen-
tlemen examined them more particularly
than I did, I recollect one of your number
called my attention to it. Now, refer and
refresh your recollection in relation to the
blood in this buggy. Mr. Goosman on page
11 and 12 of the testimony testifies as foll-
lows as it is abstracted in his own words:
“In the center of the cushion there was
about a pint of blood, heavy and clotted,
making a pool seven inches wide and thir-
teen or fourteen inches long.”
You recollect I held up to him one of
these books, and he likened it to that, if
you recollect. There is the size of the
blood pool on the center of that seat, and,
as he describes it finally, a little more to
the right, heavy and clotter, making a pool
seven inches wide, and thirteen or four-
teen inches long, occupying more than half
of the right side of the cushion. On the
seat back underneath the cushion there
was considerable blood, very fine and light
colored. This was the serum of the blood
which separated as the blood coagulated
and ran off. On the back rest there was
considerable blood as if someone had rested
up against the back curtain, and had run
down underneath the cushion; some blood
had gone down through the back of the
buggy into the bottom of the buggy
behind. The blood stains commenced
about two inches from the top of the back
rest and ran down to the seat; the seat
of the cushion did not go under the up-
holstery back of the cushion but was out
a little, so that running down the back
would not catch this blood upon the
cushion. That on the back went
through. You recollect how he de-
scribed it that this upholstery didn't
go under the upholstery back, the cushion
didn’t, but was a little way out, so that
the blood ran down the back of the buggy;







OE THE HA Y WARD MURDER TRIAL.
47.
the seat of the buggy was not the blood
which made this pool upon the cushion;
that came from some other place. The
blood stains commenced about two inches
from the top of the back rest, and ran
down to the seat. On one of the front
boards there, right or left, there was a
blood stain. There was quite a little blood
spattered around the back of the top, up in
the top, more at the back end of the top on
the back curtain. There were two or three
small spots up or near the front of the top.
the front end of the top. There was a
large spot about the size of a hand on the
back of it. The spots in the top
WERE SPLASHED ON. -
The spot on the back looked as if some-
thing had rested there. If the top was
half down the spots on the top would be
about in the line of the head of a person
sitting. And Henry Adams, who examined
the buggy on the morning of Dec. 4, says:
“I noticed on the bow of the buggy top, on
the right hand side, just above where the
strap is buckled on’—not on the left hand
side, where Kate Ging sat, but on the right
hand side, just above where the strap is
buckled on—“a mark as if a man had hold
of the bow with a bloody hand.”
Mr. Hall. I think you are mistaken. I
think Adams put the spot on the same side
described by the other witnesses.
Mr. Erwin–Turn to his testimony on page
113. It may be that it is a mistake, we will
be glad to correct it if it is. Now what
does this tell you? What do these blood
spots tell you? They are not contradicted
by anybody, they are sustained by every-
body in this case. What is the condition
of this hat? Do you see it has laid on
the edge in blood? This hat, this edge
of it which is upon the right side as she
laid own on that side, laid in blood just
to that point where her head held it up
right on that right edge about an inch,
just like that. There is the blood upon
that seat and upon that hat. Look at this
line, like the horizon of a storm across the
sky, straight as an arrow, just where that
hat met as it was upon her head. That
woman lay upon the side, and the blood
which was upon that side, came from her
cut lip and her broken nose. That girl
was struck upon the head beneath the hat
by some blunt, strong instrument, and upon
both sides of her head as the physicians'
testimony shows in order to make the
wounds upon that skull. When she laid
with her head over the back rest, struck
to partial insensibility by these blows, in
the buggy whose top was down, the blow
which fell across the bridge of her nose
breaking down both the bones of her nose,
completing her insensibility—that blow
spattered upon the top, right behind her
head, this blood which was found upon the
front of the upper part of that top. This
blood lay running on the side of this buggy
from this woman's nose as she lay there,
and there was none in the buggy by her.
Some man got in that buggy and lifted up
her form, and raised the top, and the run-
ning blood still running from her living
body, her heart still pumping out its feeble
current, streamed down the back. “Do
not leave her until she is dead, be sure
you give me time to get back to town.”
This brutal man either led that horse with
that body standing up in that way until
it came to the point where he dumped it
out, or he got into that buggy with ex-
treme care,
STANDING UP AND NOT SITTING:
down, and drove to that point. He never
drove that buggy with its blood upon its
cushions and upon its back in the manner
in which he says he did at all.
Did she bleed before death? Look at
this shirt—or at this shirt front, gentle-
men. Did she bleed down from her nose?
Let the blood tell you whether she did or
not—can there be a better witness tº a
jury who tries her death—here is her
blood! It speaks to you in thunder tones,
that her nose was broken and her lips
were cut before the fatal shot was fired.
Doesn’t the buggy seat show—does not the
hat show—that she lay upon that seat;
does not the bloody hand print show that
the top was raised after some one had got
in there and straightened her up, and
possibly then put the robe between her
body and him. What was it—what was
it which tore this hat out of the hair?
What was it which disheveled the hair of
this woman and left it all hanging down?
Why was it all clotted with blood, unless
she lay there in her blood?
These are pregnant questions for you to
answer. And it is true I was particular
about her veil, for when the main rent this
veil, the eternal truth came! This veil is
under the hat like this (indicating). Here
is its front—here is the back of the head–
I don’t want to tear it any more than it is.
What rent that veilº The blow that cut
that lip, probably a blow with a revolver,
the hammer, or something, cutting that
lip. That blow rent that veil. Was it
rent before death or after death 2 Let the
blood on the veil answer. It speaks and
tells you its own story; it flowed, here it
is; here it is clotted, holding by its clots
the interstices of this veil–here is vio-
lence before death.
Here are the clothes of this poor mur-
dered woman. On the skirt—there is upon the
front dust where her body fell right down
in the dust, and nowhere else. Erhardt's
brother testified to you the track as she
slipped out of that buggy, in accordance
with the first and second statements of Mr.
Blixt—slipped out of the buggy, struck upon
her heel, came over on her toe, and her toe
drew about six inches as she fell upon her
face. Here is the dust upon the front of
her skirt; here is the dust upon the front
of her skirt to show that she never rolled
or tumbled, or struck anything else! And
yet that hat and that veil was not upon her
head, nor did not come off in the fall, but
was found by the officers and Erhardt,
standing up against her dead body on the
back, like that.
Mr. Hall. No, put there by somebody.
Mr. Erwin. No, found there.
Mr. Hall. No, sir
Mr. Erwin. Found there—right there.
And this lying hypocrite says he never got
out of the buggy Why, he was never in
that buggy there at all! He shot this poor
woman there—his two shots are marked
here—indelibly marked upon the clothes of
this dying woman, made dead by his bru-
tality, which she wore at that time. The
hat was found there, put there by some
one's hand, standing up against her back–
Mr. Shumaker. Officer Fox found it.
Mr. Erwin. Officer Fox found it. If this
hat had fallen off yonder, as this body came








472
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
down between the wheels as it would have
come off—if you would pitch forward with
a hat upon your head, your hat goes a lit-
tle further off, or perchance is not behind
and lays upon the ground—but that it could
ever be placed up against the back of that
woman like that,
IS IMPOSSIBLE.
This is the testimony of Officer Fox:
“How did the hat lay or face on top? It
laid about that way. (Illustrating) Tipped
up a little alongside of the body. It laid
as if placed on the body there? No, sir; it
laid on the side of the body just the same
as if that was brought up and the hat laid
in that way”. You saw him illustrating,
did you not? There were only two men
there before and they were the Erhardts,
and they said upon the stand here that
they never touched the hat or anything,
until the officer came up.
Mr. Hall—They took hold of the hand.
Mr. Erwin–Never touched the body ex-
cept to take hold of the hand.
Here is the hat the woman wore, con-
fronting him—confronting him by blood
marks—confronting him by it's position,
and proving by all the laws of inference
and logic that he did have an accomplice
there. For if he did wear these same
clothes which you have examined, don’t
you know, gentlemen, he could not have
done what he says he did without blood
getting upon them?
Do you tell me that that hat which is
worn upon the top of the head, which he
does not say he picked up and threw out
of the buggy- but which he says went out
with her wrien he pushed her nut, or let her
slide out, as he said in his former testi-
mony—do you tell me that that hat can
have all the blood oil it that it has got?
And that a man sitting in that buggy,
in that blood, holding up that body had
none? Let the hat confront you, if you be-
lieve that testimony.
Mr. Hall–Erhardt says, “I think an of-
ficer placed it there,” on your cross exami-
nation.
Mr. Erwin–If the story he tells you is
true, his clothes would have shown this
thing—for, gracious heaven, here is the
woman's hat all covered with blood! Mark
you, and the hat only rode a mile after the
woman was shot, according to his story;
but according to his story he rode with
the bulky body of his occupying half of
that seat that mile, keeping the dead body
over away from him, and when he put it
out he then rode along in the buggy an-
other mile to where he left it to come to
the barn. Double and triple the chances
and opportunity to get blood upon him, and
yet he had no blood upon him.
Well, as you go along in the further con-
sideration of this testimony, you will see
the reason, and that reason is this: What
made him try to construct an alibi for an
hour, one poor hour? What was it? In
that poor hour he met his accomplice, in
that poor hour he changed his clothes, in
that poor hour he lays concealed, and the
truth, if we could get at it, would prove
this sniveling hypocrite a perjurer as he is!
He went down to South Minneapolis,
and there he says he went down, but he
didn't go down—false. He puts it where
his friends were, where the Swede was,
where Blum was; he casts his rod where it
was best to catch, where his hope would
be safest—he didn't catch. Desperate man
to cover that hour—what hour? That hour
of washing bloody clothes, or changing
bloody clothes, or that hour of making up
with his accomplice, perhaps to divide the
booty, to find out that the money on her
person was all a fake—“she had no money
on her person, that was all a fake.”
Here comes this man Dolt, in the mind's
eye, born out of this
INFERNAL AND HELLISH PLOT
of perjury: Not by witnesses purchased,
induced, wheedled, coaxed and hypnotized
by the irrefragible and intelligible evideº
of metaphysical things operated and mark-
ed by the indelible mark of the Master,
under His divine law, to which all human
testimony must yield, for that is the very
foundation of common sense.
Gentlemen, there is one piece of testi-
mony here, where you gentlemen who are
in the habit of taking care of horses, where
you constantly use horses in your every-day
business, will readily understand. Now,
mark you, this horse, when it came to the
barn, was not warm. The horse had heard
the shots, knew about the falling body—
horses know those things as well as men;
they are startled by these things more read-
ily than men are, as you all know, and the
tendency to have excited the horse must
have existed through all these circum-
stances, whatever they were. And that
horse, he claims, was driven rapidly around
by Erhardt's over the railroad track, com-
ing down by the railroad track, and was
seen by those boys, driving along that road
up there very rapidly, and turning the cor-
ner down Lake street—and yet the horse
was not warm.
That horse was not driven as hard as
they say he was. But I call your attention,
you, gentlemen, who know these things by
absolute experience—I call your attention
to this fact, that you may be able to show
your brethren by absolute knowledge on
this subject; the lines on the dash-board
were just as though some one had laid
them on the dash-board. In all your his-
tory as farmers, in all your experience in
driving horses, whether from a box wagon
or from a buggy, or from any vehicle, es-
pecially a vehicle whose box was sitting
on springs, giving it a more rapid and con-
stant spring, and teeter—when, in all of
your experience was a horse driven the dis-
tance that that horse was driven, and the
lines extending from the back strap to the
dash, which are heavier than any other
part of the lines, which hangs from the
top of the dash, when their natural sag.
did not pull those lines down in the case of
a box wagon, until the lines bending down,
sagging down, strikes upon the cross tree,
breaking the weight; or if the cross tree
doesn't catch them, goes down upon the
ground. When, in all of your history or
your experience did you ever see a horse
driven from the corner of Lake street and
Twenty-ninth, Dupont, by any road you
might take to Goosman's stable, however
softly the horse may walk, in a buggy
which was a hard riding buggy, according
to the testimony of Mr. Goosman, uncontra-
dicted—when did you ever hear of the lines
holding themselves up as these lines did,
against the teeter, the oscillation of that
buggy, and not sag down—just as if they
were laid there from the hand onto the
dash board, before the horse came into
the barn.” -
you never heard of any such thing hap-




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 473
pening—such a thing never was possible:
And things that are not possible and which
never happened, you must not believe could
have happened unless they were reasonable
and could have happened. And the logical
deduction and inference from this condi-
tion of the lines is that
WHOEVER RODE IN THAT BUGGY
rode in it pretty near to the barn and put
the lines down on the dash-board where
they were found. The lines lay over the
dash-board as if some one had just dropped
them out of their hands; they were not
around the dash-board, but just over it;
and they were not around the whip—
wrapped around the whip. And one line
was on one side of the hips of this mare
and one line on the other side of her hips;
the sag in the lines heavy as it was—the
heaviest portion of the lines did not reach
down to the cross-bar. “When the mare
gets tired she has a jerking—a habit of
jerking—her head.” Why, here was a
horse who had a habit of jerking her head;
and her was a horse that came in, I don’t
know how many blocks, from Lake and
Dupont, to this barn; a great number of
blocks–
Mr. Smith–Seventeen to 20.
Mr. Erwin–A mile and a half–over
frozen ground, without anybody to hold
her head, jerking her head, jerking her
head–and the lines, they laid, when she
got to the barn, just as if some one had
just laid them down out of their hands.
The inevitable logic which follows this
proposition, simple as it may be, you can-
not ignore. Claus A. Blixt or the man who
was in that buggy, drove that horse very
near to the barn.
You saw this buggy coming in, in the
eyes of Stevens, in the eyes of this other
young man, fast, and he drove in, who-
ever he was, too close to the barn, and
Blixt, who remained with the dead body of
this woman, after this somebody had driv-
en in, Blixt walked in. No one saw Blixt
come in in the buggy—he walked in and it
cost him that hour to walk in and find his
accomplice, which he attempted to explain
by a false alibi in which he was tripped
by the testimony of this Swede woman, his
own countryman, whom he could not cajole
into saying he was there.
But that the buggy was driven, mark
you—that that buggy was driven in poste
haste, in a hurry, in fear, I call your at-
tention to another point in the testimony
which is final and fixed on that. When
Miss Ging started out the weight was put
in the front part of the buggy—Goosman
swears to it on the eighth or ninth page
of his testimony. “When the rig came
back at 9 o'clock the weight was in the
back of the buggy,” shook back by the
fierce driving; findings its way back in
the hurry and haste of that drive, which
has no consequence or significance, except
to mark the trepidation which followed,
whoever was in that buggy, and the fear
which he had, and strongly only to mark
the fact that the lines would not have been
upon the dash board and the weight in
the rear of the buggy. And add to that
your own common sense in regard to
horses. We did not put on the
stand the testimony and the experiments
made by the officers, by the mayor, by the
newspaper reporters, by the city editors,
in which they took this old horse out and
started her, and she went wheresoever she
willed, and she never reached any point at
all in Blixt's line of testimony. Those
things are immaterial, they are unneces-
cary, they count for nothing. But your
own experience tells you that this horse
left at the corner of Lake street and Du-
pont—no testimony that the horse had
ever been there before—coming in by a
new route other than the one she went
out on–that that horse if she had followed
her own instincts to come home, not know-
ing the road home, or the way home, would
have gone the back track home. It is
against reason, against truth, to believe
that that horse knew the road from Lake
street and Dupont, or that she was ever
driven in from that locality. So that al-
together, this testimony confronts Blixt-
the mountain of truth confronts him, and
he will have to repent for it before he re-
ceives the pardon of the gentle Savior.
(Court here took a recess until 2
o'clock p. m.)
Mr. Erwin resumed his address to the
jury as follows:
Gentlemen of the Jury—I am appalled
at the amount of testimony I have got to
traverse this afternoon. I am perplexed as
to what to do. The court admonishes me
very properly that the jury must not be
kept any longer than is absolutely neces-
sary. And you have a variety of topics
which have been laid before you and before
the people, in order to vindicate your ver-
dict, and they ought to be exhaustively
treated, and very much of it I will have
to leave to you.
I have endeavored, and I will endeavor
to stand right down close to the analysis
of the testimony, making just as little ap-
plication of the testimony to the rules of
life, of the ordinary conditions of life, as
possible. Under those circumstances I
shall have to ask you to make applications
which are natural and inferential from the
testimony, which I shall refer to largely
on your own part, without requiring me to
do it in the limit of time that I have got.
To begin, therefore, where we stopped
this morning in the discussion of this tes-
timony I will preface a further examina-
tion of the testimony by saying that the
contradictions and unreasonable, un-
questionable things that are connected
with the story told by Claus A. Blixt has
never been equalled in the history of any
case in the books that my attention has
ever been called to; and I hold that these
evident contradictions in a certain sense
are due to the monstrosity and unnatural-
ness of the whole theory of the prosecu-
tion, and I think that the theory on which
this prosecution rests does not rest in
truth, but it rests in a plot hastily made
and not properly adjusted, even from a
criminal standpoint, made in the exigency
of a rest, and therefore those unnatural
phases crop out and come out everywhere,
so that the measurement of this beast
has appeared here in this forum
by the unnatural limbs and outputtings
and contours that are around it; Mr.
Blixt stands contradicted, overwhelmed by
the condition in which this body was found.
I will not ask the clerk to hand me out
the skulls. You will be allowed to take
them, I think, in your jury room, and you
can there verify and criticise whatever
opinion I may lay before you. Those skulls
are marked on both sides of the plates of








74 OFFICIAL ST ENOG RAPHIC REPORT
the skull where the fracture was. You no-
tice the extreme length of them. You have
heard the testimony as to how the skull
is constructed; two plates, and between the
plates an intervening substance; also bone
in which the blood circulates in life
time, very elastic, made so by nature in
order not to break and snap like an egg
shell, but to give like an elastic gristle;
constructed in two plates, with an inter-
vening substance, in order that they may
not crack, the intervening substance be-
ing for the purpose of making every bone
elastic.
Now you have seen men and women fall,
and heard of men falling and women falling
all your life. You must now use your con-
mon sense. You will call up to your own
mind when you come to consider the ques-
tion as to how this skull was fractured,
all that you know in your experience in re-
lation to falls; falls out of wagons, falls
out of haystacks, falls out of windows,
falls at night; falls in cellars, all falls that
you have heard of or know of; and you
never knew in your life of a man to fall
down and break both sides of his skull
four or five inches long. Now the doctors
are Nippert, Hall and Dunn, and those
young men who came in here, they testify,
not from actual knowledge, but they testi-
fy from their knowledge of books, because
their early professional life has not given
them a personal experience in these mat-
ters, and they have not a large, extended,
varied personal experience. They testify
from principles contained in the idioms and
words of books and of science. Well, it is laid
down in the works of science that the skull
often is fractured by the least possible vio-
lence, apparently. Isolated cases of that
kind do occur, but those are the exceptions
and the anomalies, the improbable things
which occur in human life. Therefore doc-
tors Dunn, and Nippert, and Dr. Dunsmoor,
and Dr. Hall, those four gentlemen testified
from their knowledge, it would be possi-
ble that these fractures should occur by a
fall which was described by Blixt. Now,
you recollect the hypothetical question put
to the doctors was the worst fall that was
in this case, not the fall which Blixt made
in his first statement, and second state-
ment, where she slipped out and struck up-
on her feet, as she actually did do, but
the fall which he undertook to make as an
addition, and embellishment under the exi-
gencies of the case, as I explained to you
yesterday. That hardest kind of a fall
was after putting her feet out to keep her
body from coming against him.
PUSHED HER OVER AND SHE FELL.
That was the fall described in the hypo-
thetical question; and these young doctors
took that into consideration and testified
it would be possible for fractures to have
been made by such a fall, but they did not go
any further than the mere possibility of
such a thing. They said reluctantly that
it would be possible; they did not say it
was probable. They did not aid you any
by their opinion Experts are not of-
fered to usurp the opinion of the jury.
They cannot do it. Expert witnesses can-
not be put on the stand to take away from
you a fair judgment as to the credibility
of the testimony and the facts. And the
experts say nothing in aid of your opinion
to enlighten you so that you may come to
a correct conclusion; so that while you
yourselves might admit that it could be
possible, you are to ascertain the truth.
Now, then, on the other hand, Dr. Hance
and Dr. Meyer and Dr. Norred have given
you a directly opposite opinion. And these
men are not kids in the profession. These
men are the old time practitioners of your
city. They are not practicing upon some
special disease, so that their knowledge in
relation to the fracture comes largely from
books and not actual practice. But they
are physicians of the highest standing, of
the largest experience and were chosen to
aid you because of their high standing and
large experience, and what do they testify?
Dr. Norred said to you that in his opinion,
and mark that it is based upon the fall
that Blixt described, not on the other
fall, but upon the improvised fall of Blixt.
Dr. Norred states that it is exceedingly
improbable that all these could have been
made by a single fall.
Dr. Hance who was surgeon of a regi-
ment during the war, testified “Don’t
think that the fractures were caused by
the fall. It is hard to speak of the im-
possibilities, but it comes almost within
the range of impossibilities, to fracture
both sides of the skull by falling on one
side.”
Take these opinions of the experts in
connection with your own knowledge in
relation to place, and you take that opin-
ion which is most &onsistent and reason-
able to your minds and consciences, for
the verdict can be no higher standard than
the intelligence and morality of the jury,
and under our system it is left to you and
to no one else. You must use your best
conscience and your best mind and these
experts are but aids to help you.
And Dr. Meyers, a practicing physician
for 35 years, surgeon during the war,
and has had almost every conceivable
kind of fracture, and he testifies before
you with that same disinterestedness, that
same lofty character born of experience
and practice, and he testified “I don't
think it was possible that both fractures
were produced by a single blow. It is
more probable that it required two blows.”
Now it is improbable that these fractures
could be made possible to be made by
the fall as described by Blixt, which was
a greater fall than the one which the evi-
dence shows. These things you have to
resolve in your mind, and where do you
come in weighing the testimony? What
do you weigh out? What is the reasonable
product of your investigation? Why, the
reasonable product of your investigation,
taking your own knowledge into consid-
eration, the character of these experts,
etc., the difference in their character and
testimony, it must be that the testimony
here, the deciding testimony, is that the
skull could not have been fractured as it
was found fractured by the violence which
Blixt testified to, and although you know
that Blixt has testified to a fall which
never took place, but has testified in the
exigency of the case and against his own
first and second statement. Therefore the
skull itself,
THE SRULL OF CATHE RINE
ITSELF,
and the laws of science, and your own
best experience and belief, all confront Mr.
Blixt and show to him what you see is in-
possible.
G. N. G.










OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 475
Now, when the body was found the nose
was broken; the lip was cut through; the
skull was broken on both sides. There was
an indentation in the skull over the right
eye. None of those had any relation to the
pistol shot in the back of her head which
came out through the left eye. That pistol
shot in no way connected with the nostril,
in plunging through here it did not lead to
shot in no way connected with the nostril,
so there could be no hemorrhage from the
pistol shot. The doctors testified to it, the
doctors that were at the autopsy and the
men that washed the body found the nose
full of clotted blood, and the testimony in
relation to that clot of blood or in rela-
tion to the hemorrhage was to the effect
that there would not be any such hemor-
rhage after death; and Dr. Hill testified
in that regard, it is more probable that the
injury to the nose which produced the clot-
ted blood was caused before her death.
Therefore, these wounds upon the body
of Catherine Ging, those fractures upon
the skull of Catherine Ging, all by a fair
and reasonable interpretation confront
Blixt and show that the violence which
was done to Catherine Ging was not alone
the violence of the pistol shot and pushing
her out of the buggy, but some other
agents interfered which produced these
wounds and which produced that fractured
nose and that cut lip and that fractured
skull. And when you take that in consid-
eration with his own words in his first
statement where he transposes the real
man to Harry, he says, “Harry told me,”
or the real man told me, “Don’t leave her
until she is dead. Give me plenty of time
vo get back to town.” These wounds, \
say, this fractured skull corroborate his
expression at that time in the first state-
ment, prove to you by laws which are not
dependent on the truthfulness of individu-
als, but which coming from nature which
never lies, must be proof to vou that there
was violence upon the body of that woman
other than that what Blixt testifies to;
and as he testified that he did no more
violence than he swears to, this proves that
some one else did this violence.
Mr. Blixt is further contradicted—remem-
per these contradictions, gentlemen, when
you come to consider his testimony—he is
contradicted by the manner in which the
body of Kate Ging would act if the shot
be in the buggy. Now, these things are all
of the greatest possible importance. You
know I asked Dr. Hance, and Dr. Hance
answered the question, and it was not
stricken out, but the court sustained the
objection after it was stricken out, and
therefore I won’t quote the testimony. But
I will quote the testimony of Dr. Nippert,
just right in the line and parallel with the
testimony of Dr. Hance, which was not
struck out of this action, but which I will
not quote. Dr. Nippert says on the 197th and
198th page of his testimony: “Now, in a liv-
ing person, how long could a person live
under such circumstances when the shot
had passed through the base of the brain
and come through the optic bone? A. I
think that death in a case of that kind
must have been instantaneous. Q. By real-
son of what? A. By reason of shock to the
nervous system. Q. Shock to the nervous
system? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you think it
posible for a person to have lived an in-
stant after the shot was fired? A. I don’t
think so. Q. What effect on the body, on
the flexibility of the body, would a shot
of that kind have, would it make it stiff
or make it limp 2 A. I think it would some-
what depend on the mental condition of
the person killed. Q. Is there any pos-
sibility of such a shock causing a person
to stiffen? A: I think so. Q. In reference to
the shock and in its effect? A. Yes, Q.
That is the ordinary condition of it? A.
Yes, that is the ordinary condition. Q.
And ordinarily, generally, you would ex-
pect a person, after he was shot, to be in-
stantly limp 2 A. Yes, generally. Q. By a
limp body you mean a body of muscles
and sinews all relaxed. When the muscles
and tendons of the back and of the hips
running and extending to the back of the
neck, when they are limp, what is the nat-
ural consequence to a body sitting up? A.
It falls together itself.” And then testi-
fies that it was almost impossible to hold a
person sitting up in a buggy that was shot
in this manner, that the body would set-
tle down of its own motion.
Now, Mr. Blixt testifies that the moment
Catherine Ging was shot, when she was
shot, she was looking out over the buggy
seat, that she straightened back. Dr. Nip-
pert tells you, and your own common sense
tells you, must tell you, if the effect of
that shot was instantaneous death, then
the body settled right down under the law
of gravitation, right down there in the
buggy, in accordance with the gravitation,
with the center of gravitation in the human
body. If you strike a person on the head
and crack their skull and do not produce
instantaneous death, then, in accordance to
where the blow may be on the brainial
system, then the body may stiffen out and
remain stiff for a while. And so when you
consider the testimony of Claus A. Blixt,
with the probability and natural condition
of the evidence here, the circumstantial ev-
idence is strong that this woman
was struck sitting up, and not when
she was shot, for if she was shot as he
describes in his testimony, the instantane-
ous effect would be to make the body
limp, and she could not be held up, very
difficult to hold her up in the buggy and
drive 30 rods one way, turn around and
drive back a mile and he says he rode 30-
rods before he held that body up. “I
never looked at her at all, and the robe
was off my knees, and I gave it all to her,
and I shoved the robe against her like
this, and I went 25 or 30 rods more in that
way.” Then he turned around.
Gentlemen,
THESE CONTRADICTIONS ARE FATAL
to the monstrous story which Claus A.
Blixt tells. If there was only one of them
you might it little note, but they attend
at every possible turn, attend in this case,
are at the very top of this case, and he
stands here confronted by natural condi-
tions, natural deductions, natural infer-
ences at every point in his story.
Now, Mr. Blixt is further contradicted by
his movements after leaving the body. He
did not go down to Twenty-third street.
Now, what was the exact testimony on
that? What made Blixt go up to see if
the flagman was in the flag house. Now,
he never explained that. My theory is
this; that when he went up on foot to
get in the buggy he saw the one armed flag
man and he stopped there to see if the one
armed flag man had seen him and to ex-
plain the character of his visit there and
for that purpose alone. And the next night
-





476
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
Mr. Kennedy says he came there again in-
quiring for that flagman; undoubtedly for
that same purpose. This flagman he had
known for a long time. There is no real-
son for his looking that flagman up so
speedily after this murder except upon the
theory that he feared that the flagman
had noticed him. Of course he is contra-
dicted by Mr. Kennedy as to the manner in
which he came in that house, but that is
trivial in its character, and I will not stop
to notice it.
Then he says that he went out to Thir-
teenth avenue and Twenty-third street to
see a man that owed him some money.
Now isn't your credulity startled and
broken down to think that a man
WHO HAD JUST KILLED A YOUNG
WOMAN,
that he should start and go back, and go
off and dun a man for a dollar and a
quarter that had been owing to him for
four years. It is too silly for any man to
entertain for a monent; and it is con-
structed for some purpose, and what was
the reason for the construction, except
that he might account for this hour's time,
which if he told the truth about it would
expose his accomplices, whether it was
Adry or whoever it was. So he makes this
trip which never was made. He makes it
in his testimony around to this place on
Twelfth avenue and Twenty-third street
for the purpose of accounting for the loss
of that hour. Now, what does he say.
He says he went down there. It was dark
up stairs and down at the house where this
man used to live. “I knocked five or six
times at the door. He owed me a dollar
fifteen. I had not seen him since last
spring.” Now there are three witnesses
who contradict that. One of them is Mr.
Thoreson, a man of very slight intelli-
gence. He thought he was going to make
something by reason of his testimony. He
thought he was going to make some money.
He didn’t know how much. How he got
that in his head we never knew. We gave
him to understand that we never knew:
but he thought he was going to make
something. He thought the case was so
important that necessarily he would be
paid for his knowledge in that regard.
Now, I do not depend much on that kind
of man, and I do not ask you to consider
his testimony for anything more than it is
worth. I do ask you to consider the tes-
timony of his wife and his wife's sister.
You saw them before you. They were
thoroughly honest people. There was no
uncertainty about their testimony. They
say they went to bed at 9 o'clock. Jennie
Thoreson says she was a light sleeper;
heard no one knock at the door; that she
would have heard if any one had knocked
at the door four or five times; that the
light burned all night next to the passage
to the back stairs. And Mary Larson tes-
tified the same. Now, a calculation can
be made here. Now, calculating the time
it took him to go there, and see what time
he got there, the time of Blixt's arrival at
the Thoreson house, and two minutes at
the house knocking, and eight minutes to
go to the car, 18 minutes to Washington
and First avenues south, 33 blocks, running
on schedule time, i5 minutes in Swanson's
saloon shaking dice and drinking, is
Blixt's testimony; his arrival at the jew-
elry store; left the jewelry store at 9:52;
that is Motager's testimony; he must have
left Thoreson's at 9 o'clock and nine min-
utes. The lady said she did not go to
sleep for half an hour, or Mary Larson
for half an hour, and it was their house
without much furniture in it, a back door,
this partition in that kind of a house, and
then he going back you understand, two
days afterward, and said that you were not
here, or we would have heard you.
NOW BLIXT IS A MURDERER.
Mr. Blixt is now confessing for the pur-
pose of extenuation and excuse; and in
your judgment of the testimony you can-
not make Mr. Blixt's statement uncorrob-
orated in any way against the disinterest-
ed statement of Mrs. Thompson and Mrs.
Larson, sustained as they are by the other
Thoreson, or the man Thoreson. To be
sure they tried to confound him with the
switchman down here, but the switchman
says he cannot tell what night he spoke to
him, whether it was the 3d or 5th; he was
on the odd days; and it was the 5th that
this man went back to Thoreson's, and it
might have been that day. So that there
is no corroboration there. You cannot find
any corroboration there, which is definite
or proper. Therefore you find Blixt doing
what? Manufacturing testimony to cover
what? Just what you want to know; just
what you and this country wants to know,
more than anything else on earth, where
were you, Blixt, during that hour? What
were you doing and whom did you see?
These things I cannot stop with. I must
go on.
I leave that for you to discuss in the
patience, candor and honesty of your man-
hood when you go into your jury room.
Now, Blixt is contradicted overwhelmingly
by the testimony in relation to putting the
revolver in Harry's room. Don’t forget,
gentlemen, what he said in his first state-
ment—in the second statement, about his
movements after he came into the Ozark,
after the murder. In his second statement,
he said, in answer to the question: What
did you do when you came into the Ozark?
A. When I came into the Ozark I went
into my bedroom and went to bed. Q.
What did you do first, when you first came
into the Ozark, where did you go. A.
I went down in the elevator.”
Now, here is his unguarded answer—his
natural answers in his second statement;
the inquisitor says to him “What did you
do with the revolver?” Oh, yes, that has
got to be made plain. I took it to his
room.” Why had that got to be made
plain? Why did Mr. Blixt tell the inquis-
itor he went right down the elevator and
went to his bed room? And when the in-
quisitor, who afterwards sat by him on
this side of the table, all the way through
this trial, when he says to him, “How
about the revolver, what did you do with
the revolver?” He answers, “Oh, yes, that
has got to be made plain. I took it to his
room.” Q. What time did you come in?
A. To the Ozark? Q. Yes, and what
did you do? A. When I came into the
Ozark I went into my bedroom and went
to bed.
“Q. Now, what did you do, if anything,
when you first came into the Ozark?
Where did you go? A. I went down the
elevator. Q. What did you do with the re-
volver? A. Oh, yes, that has got to be made
plain. I took it into his room.” Now, gen-



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 477
tlemen, let us stop a moment and analyze
this. Here he is nudged by the inquisitor;
here he is touched up by the power—he is
building Blixt up for the purpose of this
prosecution. In place of the grand jury
carefully investigating this matter, leaving
him to the natural conditions, investigat-
ing behind him; but guiding him and build-
ing him up for the purpose of launching
this prosecution against this defendant.
Now, what does he say is his testimony
here? Does he make that same slip? If he
does, it will be suspicious, won't it? If,
walking upon the lines of his memory, he
makes the same slip, after he has been
nudged in the second statement, you will
regard it with serious suspicion, will you
not? Here is his testimony before you,
gentlemen. “When you returned to the
Ozark, what did you do? A. Well, I went
right to bed. No, I went right down into
where I lived in the basement, when I
came down, and I went to bed. Q. Did you
do anything before you went to bed in re-
gard— A. Yes, sir, that is right; when
I came into the flats, Harry had left both
doors open, and he told me when I came
back, that both doors would be open.”
There is the nudge again—the slip of the
witness; the nudge of the inquisitor and
the memory comes in to supply the testi-
mony. Gentlemen, these things appeal to
you—what for? They appeal to you most
strongly to criticise this man's testimony.
You are asked to use his eyes, his ears,
his lips, as the credit which is
TO WARRANT YOU IN TAKING THIS
MAN'S LIFE.
Every principle of manhood, every prin-
ciple of fair play, and every principle of
liberty, lead you conscientiously and fairly
—not unfairly—to criticise supremely every
word of his testimony and every one of
those outlined features in this case. Now,
if we turn to Anderson's testimony, found
on page 607 of this record, you will find
there that Anderson says as follows:
“When Blixt came in that night he came
down the back stairs—I will find that tes-
timony and read it so that there may be
no mistake. (Counsel for the state here ad-
mitted that that was the testimony as
quoted by counsel for the defense.) Well,
you see that it is admitted by the counsel
for the state that he testified that when
Mr. Blixt came in, he came down the back
stairs. Those were the stairs which led
into the street; they went out back into
the alley; he did not come through this
first floor where the flats were in which
Adry lived and in which Harry lived, ac-
cording to his own brother-in-law; he was
never on the floor where Harry's flat was.
Now, Mrs. Hayward testifies that between
8:30 and 9:30 in the evening she went down
to Harry's flat to get some ink, and tried
both doors and found they were both lock-
ed. I was a little surprised, gentlemen, at
my friend, Frank M. Nye, when he asked
you to turn down, excuse and palliate and
consider as a perjurer the testimony of
this mother upon a matter which was ab-
solutely proved by all the other evidence
in the case, that the doors were locked.
Mrs. Blixt had testified that the doors of
Harry's flat were always locked; that she
made his bed up in the afternoon and then
locked the doors; or that they were self-
locking and she shut the doors; that she
did not give her key to the husband, Blixt,
and that when Harry came into the base-
ment that evening, there was no passage
of any key between them or anything of
that kind; so that the means for Blixt to
get into the flat was absolutely cut off,
and Mrs. Blixt testified before you that
those doors were always locked. Now,
when that had been testified to in that
way, and Anderson had testified that he
had come in by the back stairs and Blixt
himself had testified in the first statement
that he went right down stairs and did not
go to Harry's room, until he was nudged,
as I have shown you, about the revolver-
an afterthought; and when he testified in
the trial before you that he did not go
down stairs until he was nudged about the
revolver, I thought it extremely strange
and out of place—a sad mistake—to
criticise the mother of this defend-
ant as a woman perjuring herself
in regard to a matter already proved in the
trial without her testimony; and where it
was unnecessary to use her unless it was
true; unnecessary, if counsel wanted to,
unnecessary if Mrs. Hayward wished to:
unnecessary in every way. And this is
one of the monstrous features of this case;
this is one of those things which appeals
to you with all the power, that strange and
unnatural and unusual things ought to ap-
peal to jurors, that in order to sustain the
credibilty of this inhuman liar,
THIS INHUMAN MURDERER, THIS
HYPOCRITE BLIXT,
you will have to turn down all the laws
of God in relation to physical conditions,
all of the witnesses who have confronted
him, all of the witnesses in that alibi,
and finally to complete the crucifixion of
the truth, you will have to turn down Miss
Ging's own words, her own letters, her
own acts; and then to add horror to the
cringing character of your verdict, you
have got to turn your back upon an hon-
est mother. I would like to have the free-
dom to answer the man with a blow who
would ask me to turn my mother down,
who would dare to tell me that my mother
would swear to a lie, even to save my
life. That splendid and noble mother of
mine, 86 years old today, with her trust in
the Master, she would not lie nor will this
lady, heavy laden and perplexed though
she be in the extreme sitting here by the side
of her pastor, before you, gentlemen, have
ing the consolation of his care and at-
tention, as she appears before you, I say,
neither will she lie, but speak out from the
grief of her heart towards Adry who,
like a fiend on the stand, would hurl down
family and mother. And yet the prosecu-
tion in its monstrosity, asks you to turn
this all down; to believe in the penitence
of this strange canting, monstrous, hypo-
critical murderer, Blixt. All of these
things must ultimately come to the jury
box. You begin to see, gentlemen, how
you are the very safety of the nation; how
all questions of credibility and fact, involve
ing the most sacred ties that are possible
in life and how that liberty is no commer-
cial thing, angel like, with floating hair–
a gleaming angel—but is a grim scarred
man of war, who does battle and battle
ever and ever against wrong, crime and
perjury. You are the bar to which this
splendid nation refers these questions for
your judgment, before an anxious and curi-
ous world, to see whether you stand the
strain put upon you, to use your common

478 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
|
sense or be swept by the blighting fury of
accusation into the vortex of destruction
of your liberties and your laws, You will
have the cartridges before you—unimport-
ant matter, and I won’t discuss it now.
You will have the ball before you. Look
at it. The doctor brought in here testified
on the rebuttal that across that little bone
which you see in the skull, which at the
time of the wound was fresh and filled with
blood, just scraped off the edges of that
little bone, the petrous portion of the
temple bone, lying right under and in the
ridge, from the back of the head, we'll say,
towards the center; the skull is split;
across these little ridges there were little
paintings of lead; little small pieces of
lead, and the bullet, as you look at it, you
will see that it stands there unimpaired;
not broken or ridged out; and you can
weigh it yourself in connection with the
other bullets. You saw the bullet weighed
here before you; it weighed what the ordi-
nary short cartridge weighed. Why? Be-
cause Adry had a revolver and his box
of cartridges were the ordinary short cart-
ridges; Harry's were the ordinary cart-
ridges; and it was seen in the collusion be-
tween Adry and he that a long cartridge
should be introduced; they knew that the
revolver was never out of Harry's room,
and to explain how the revolver came to
be in his room, they had to invent a reason
and that reason was to change the cart-
ridges; and dismay came upon this prose-
cution when the scales told you that that
was false and that the bullet would not
answer the theory of Blixt. Mr. Blixt is
contradicted by the old father Hayward
and by the natural and probable circum-
stances, attending witnesses of nature.
Will you turn down here in this august
trial of this young man’s life, will you
turn down honest father or will you turn
down that acknowledged murderer of Cath-
erine Ging? Will you do by others as you
will be done by ? Treated with the same
reasonableness; meeting with the same
fate. Old man Hayward tells you how it
came that Blixt met him a few feet from
the Ozark, I forget the exact number, that
he saw him coming out as he was going
up, and says to him, I want to get a valve,
and he (Mr. Hayward) says to him, go
down and get it at such and such a place.
If you hurry down you will find my son
is there and he will give you the money to
get it. In the first statement he says the
same. In the first statement by Blixt he
corroborates old man Hayward exactly. He
don’t claim it was improvised that he
should be there to witness a note at all;
that is an afterthought in the second state-
ment; and in the testimony he makes the
witnessing of a note a necessary thing.
He makes the loan in the first statement a
natural thing. This was his condition dur-
ing the first statement; but he changed
that to suit the exigencies of this prosecu-
tion, and he stands here now confronted
by old man Hayward, who testifies to the
circumstances and which contradict Blixt.
entirely, showing him thereby to be a manu-
facturer of testimony for the purpose of
extenuation and his own self interest.
These things appeal to you with the most
solemn and tremendous effect. Mr. Blixt.
is contradicted by Maggie Wachtler. When
you stop in your honest minds to turn
down, to put out the 25 things here which
have got to be wiped out and cancelled be-
fore you can believe Blixt, as you
turn them down one after another
your very hand will become palsied
and tired before you get through.
Now, under all the circumstances in this
case, would you believe Maggie Wachtler
or Claus A. Blixt? Maggie Wachtler's story
is simple, natural; she told it on the stand.
She did have some trouble with her en-
ployer over the collection of a note, it
seems; the merits of which I need not dis-
cuss at this time, nor will you need to dis-
cus, for it amounts to nothing in this case
whether the merits were on her side or on
the lawyer's side; she had an unpleasant
feeling at the time she went to the lawyer,
and told him what she knew. So she went
to Attorney McMahon, you know him, gen-
tlemen, he is a man of character in this
city, and stated to him—she having worked
for him and Odell when they were in part-
nership some time ago—she said to him, “I
cannot sleep, my conscience troubles me.”
How is this? Ҽyhy, I went down with
Odell to take the statement of Blixt, and
this man Blixt is the worst liar in the
world. When he commenced to make his
statement, he said: “Adry put up the job to
murder Miss Ging for her money; for her
money; and we agreed that if we got
caught at it, we would put it upon Harry,
because he always went with Miss Ging.”
And then the lawyer shook his hand at me
not to take that, and I crossed out that
which A had already taken and stopped and
listene- ; and he said this until the lawyer
spoke to him rebukingly as the answer was
put in, although what the lawyer said was
not allowed to be proven here. And then
Blixt said: ‘Oh, I forgot; I thought you
wanted me to tell the truth.” Mr. Blixt.
there appeared in his true light. There
Mr. Blixt was honest, and his honesty in-
pressed itself upon the nature of this young
woman; the depth of that impression is best
measured by her sleepless nights, by the
conflict within her life between conscience
and professional duty. And I don’t care if
you admit and can see that afterwards, or
then, or at any time, moving conjointly,
that this was a feeling of injustice done
her by the attorney and in some
part was one of the moving causes
which decided in her mind the struggle
to go with conscience and not with profes-
sional ethics and professional duty. I don't
care whether you find that or not. It is
a matter outside of your consideration
upon the credibility of the testimony, it
seems to me. I do not see how you can
help but find from the circumstances, from
the book itself; before your eyes it was
paraded and it stands here in evidence
in the court; I don’t see how you can, in
view of what the circumstances in this
case are saying to you, in view of the con-
dition of Blixt, the character of his testi-
mony, the incentive on which he has testi-
fied to make up his story, I don't see
how you can help but believe that girl.
Mark you, when you come to questions of
doubt, the law settles where you are to go.
It needs not have settled it; your own feel-
ings of compassion and of mercy and of
humanity would lead you to
GIVE THE DEFENDANT THE BENEFIT
OF A DOUBT.
You would act, the scales are
equally balanced and you could not tell





OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
479
which is right or true, I say you would act,
under the influence of mercy, because if
you would err, you would rather err on the
side of mercy than on the side of hasty
judgment. But the law fixes that, gentle-
men; that is what the meaning of pre-
sumption of innocence is; that when you
come to that point where your minds are
perplexed, and in doubt, and you cannot
absolutely decide, you give the defendant
the benefit of the doubt, acting under that
rule, automatic in its character, and con-
sistent with your own manhood, you are
brought to a mathematical, as well as to
just and righteous conclusion that Miss
Wachtler told the truth. Now, what does
that prove? It does not prove, as a matter
of fact, that Adry and Blixt did put up
a job to kill Miss Ging, but it proves that
Elixit said–another one of his stories was—
that Adry and he put up the job to kill
Miss Ging and lay it upon Harry.
It proves to you the condition of the Blixt
mind; the facility with which he changes
his stories; the congeption, the desperate-
ness, take it as you will, by which he
wanted another story than the one he
testified to. You have already had three,
one when wanted to make a clean breast
of it; One when he says, “What do
you want of me now?” One before you,
here, gentlemen; one before Miss Wach-
tler and Odell. This is as far as I want to
use the story of Miss Wachtler. I want to
confront Blixt with Blixt again and again
and again, so that this monstrous creation
which came out of his hypocritical and
wicked heart, will, by its own fold, stran-
gle to death, not only before you, but be-
fore this nation, which, under honest con-
ditions, struggles to maintain the liberty
of common sense, and the high example
set by you in the strangulation of this
unnatural iconoclastic monster, which bids
fair in the mind of man seeking in faith,
given up to the ipse dixit of confessed
criminals, acting under the old form of
approvement, to extenuate their guilt and
escape the punishment of their crime. I
would like, if I had time, to give your
minds a dance along the lines of poetry
and song, as to the hellish character of
this man, whom I have exposed in the
evidence, nothing better I would like to do
than to fan you to strongest hate for one
so low and so sordid as that man Blixt.
is. But I hold that is not the way to treat
a juror. If there is one thing that Ameri-
cans can rest on with absolute certainty,
it is the fair play of a jury of their coun-
trymen. In all the splendor of Roman
power, when Verres, the Consul at Syra-
cuse, in mockery of the rights of citizen-
ship, that splendid Roman citizen, whom
he scourged through the streets, crucified
him with his face turned towards Rome,
in mockery of his rights, there was no
jury system in Rome; redress had to be
to the senate and to power, and not to the
ranks of the citizen. But as he marched
beneath that scourge and as he hung upon
that cross, his face fronting towards the
waters of the Mediterranean, where the
spires of the city were seen, he cried
“Civis Romanus sum”—“I am a Roman cit-
izen,” as if the magic words, as Cicero
said, would save his life and
Time has gone on, and eighteen hun-
dred years of glory beneath the banner
of the God-King has brought us liberty, and
-
liberty.
that old cry, “I am a Roman citizen,” has
come down through history until today it
has swelled an anthem floating round the
globe—“I am an American citzen, with the
rights reserved and constitutional, not
only in the laws, but in the hearts and
blood of men.” No knigthly symbol is
painted on our citizen; no blazonry on
their arms, or crown or insignia to denote
the value of their mental, moral or honest
life. You may go upon the streets of Berlin
today and push from the sidewalk a one-
armed woman seeking a scanty support
for herself by alms; but if you should do
that here today on the street of any Ameri-
can city, why the barbers, the boys from
the street, the men from the river, or men
from the woods would rise up at once and
strike you down, in protection of woman
like knights of old; any man who dared
touch woman; and so today men have no
fear when they come before a jury of
Americans. Now, gentlemen of the jury, I
want to call your attention to the evidence
of
COLLUSION BET WEEN ADRY AND
BLIXT.
Mark the exact similitude of their plati-
tude, word for word, place for place, sub-
ject for subject, as if the two had con-
templated how they would put it on Harry
if they were caught. Here Adry said that
in September Harry asked him if he would
kill a woman for $2,000, while Blixt says
that in November Harry asked him if he
would kill a woman for $2,000. It seems
that Harry was in the market for killing
women, and the price was $2,000. The sil-
liest nonsense on this earth. Why did
Adry put it in September and Blixt in No-
vember? Because Adry wanted another
motive to be ascribed to Harry than the
life insurance policy; the motive they had
agreed to put it upon, was the fact that
Harry always went with Miss Ging, and by
reason of that friendship and that famili-
arity, there had grown up and could be
discovered a motive for her taking off by
murder. But Blixt, whose confession and
whose tale was forged, after all the cir-
cumstances in relation to the insurance
policies, had been spread out to the world,
when urged to account for the death of
this woman, he put it in November. To
kill a woman for $2,000. Adry said that
Harry said to him that she could be very
easily shot, take her out driving, etc. And
Blixt's first plan in his first statement,
was that Harry was to take her out drive
ing and shoot her. Here they agreed
agin. Strange parallelism and conclusion.
Adry said that he said that he proposed
taking her out driving and wondered how
she would fall in case she struck a bould-
er; whether she would fall backwards or
fall from the front, or fall upon the back
of her head. Blixt said that Harry said
“I am going to have her take out a horse,
and I will kill her—throw her up against
the rocks.” And Adry says (Harry) he
proposed driving her out in a buggy, let
her hands become tangled up in the reins
and then allow the horse to run away
and kill her; and Adry says that Goos-
man had one horse that would run away
in a moment, and he (Harry) was going
to have her take that horse out. Hand in
hand, side by side it means exactly the
same; these two worthies discussed the




480
OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
manner in which they would put it onto
Harry; one, because he always went with
Miss Ging, and the other because he knew
he had the life insurance policy; and both
to voice the criminal character of this
laughing man, this smiling, undisturbed,
courageous, conſident man. Adry Says
Harry says: “If you have any nerve, now,
to show me, go out and kill some cripple;
they are better dead than living.”
I said, “How would you know that I did
kill anybody?” He said: “I would see it in
the paper, and I would give you the
money.” Give him the money to go out
just to show his nerve and kill a cripple.
Ridiculous, absurd, unreasonable, In Sane,
monstrous. And Blixt swore that he said,
“Take my revolver and go out and shoot
any lady, any child you see, and tell me
where you done it, so that I know you
done it, and I will give you this $100 bill.”
Monstrous; paralleled with monstrosity,
useless, unreasonable, illogical, absolutely
false; but showing by their peculiar par-
allelism and collusion, which did exist, if
Blixt told the truth, when he told Maggie
Wachtler that he and Adry had put up
the job to kill this woman and lay it onto
Harry if they got caught. And Adry said
that Harry said that he had killed two
men already, one a Chinaman and one
that he did not care to speak about. “And
Blixt said that Harry said that he had kill-
ed two men before, one a Chinaman and
the other one he wouldn’t tell me who it
was.” The impression left upon the mind
by this terrible parallelism in words and in
meanings between these two worthies, it
is hard to counteract. In the first place,
they are all senseless, unreasonable, in-
sane. No living man who wanted to kill
Catherine Ging would have employed any
such agency as Blixt or any such wild, in-
sane, foolish scheme to have her shot and
killed with a ball and left upon the road-
way to make believe it was an accident.
This woman constantly received food and
drink from Harry; was with him in the
friendship of their lives everywhere, and
trusted him everywhere and at every ap-
pointment. To adopt the hardest, the most
dangerous, the most impossible means of
taking her off; just think of it, gentlemen.
If he had designed to take her life, would
he have conveyed it to anybody else? Hav-
ing all the access and opportunity to do it
himself? Give the man credit for reason;
don’t make him a fool; don’t make him an
insane man for the purpose of conviction,
and refuse him the defense of insanity
for the purpose of acquittal. Treat him as
he is, a reasonable, moral being. Look at
his condition in life. Suppose he is a gam-
bler; he is extremely careful about his
reputation in gambling. Nobody knew
about it. He has no bad habits. He neither
drinks nor has illicit companions and sel-
don swears. He moved in the best of so-
ciety, in the respectable society, to
say the least, the best so-
ciety of the town, and what a libel it is
upon the daughters and mothers of the
best society in Minneapolis for them not
to notice, during the long years of his as-
sociations with them, that he was a vil-
lain.
Why, women all stand armed with a pe-
culiar vision in regard to man. Instantly
upon meeting a man a woman can tell
what his character is with her eyes, while
the opposite is true that a man cannot tell
what a woman’s character is with her
eyes. A man can only tell what a.
woman’s character is when he hears her
speak, and sees her move and act. God
gave to the weaker sex the power to in-
stantly and intuitively know its foe. And
the women of Minneapolis, the young
women of Minneapolis, who associated
with this man would have found out from
from a glance of him, all the abandoned
and degraded elements which seemed to foll-
low this article in Harper's, which my
friend, Mr. Nye, learned for the purpose
of his speech here, if this were true.
You must consider this man in the light
in which he was considered by the most
careful and best agencies of modern civil-
ization, Christian civilization, pure and re-
fined women. You can judge yourselves
the nobility of his character, from the
mainly stand which he has made here him-
self for the character of Kitty Ging. And
you can see how unjust it was to raise the
cry of gambler against this man. He
never played any of those low, cheating
games at cards which distinguishes a
common and wicked thief, who assumes to
be called a gambler—but he played at the
game called faro.
It was Bacon's delight to study the doc-
trine of chance, for the only difference be-
tween the doctrine of chance and the doc-
trine of mathematics is, that mathematics
are measurable by the human mind under
a developed form of mathematical measure-
ments, and chances are not yet developed
into rules so that they can be followed,
and men of aspiring mathematical minds
launch out into the undeveloped mathemat-
ics of the world. Bacon spent the last
years of his life trying to construct rules
upon
THE DOCTRINE OF CHANCE.
And some of the very best men I have
ever known, and you have known, learned
judges, United States senators, and dis-
tinguished orators, and scientists in every
direction, play faro. And to claim that be-
cause they play faro they have got this
abandoned, wicked and malignant heart,
which will stoop to murder in its lowest and
most beastly and monstrous form, is an
insult to your intelligence, to your experi-
ence, and to your knowledge of men, a
cruel injustice to this man, and a critical
advance beyond the line of fair public
prosecution, but made necessary in the ab-
sence of all motives created by the evi-
dence here, to establish in your prejudice
a motive which does not exist in the
testimony, and cannot be proved as a fact.
The story of the different cartridges was
devised by Adry and Blixt together. I
referred to that yesterday.
Blixt knew nothing about the hold up.
Adry did. Therefore Blixt's knowledge of
the watch, the roll of $1 bills, which I
showed you yesterday changed from a roll
of counterfeit money to a roll of $1 bills,
in the trial here before you, was to corrob-
orate the testimony of Adry about the $1
bills, which was explained by Mr. Hay-
ward, as bills coning out of his safe, bills
which he had in his possession—claimed by
his father as having come from his fath-
er's safe. This in provisation of the watch
came through Adry's fear that the thing
would one day unlock the secret of this
damnable plot, and that therefore he must
have a witness like Blixt, that Harry was


oR THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 481.
trying to conceal the watch, and therefore
was fearful of man's knowledge of the hold
up. The adoption of that plan, whose rea-
son rests upon the fear which affrights to-
day Adry's very soul and drives him in be-
hind the barriers of the common jail,
watched by the sleuth hounds lest his own
insane lips shall betray the secret he is
hiding, the condition of his protection,
which he told his dear mother on three dif-
ferent occasions the august state had
promised to him. 1 me adoption of this
story created for the benefit of Adry by
Blixt, is the strongest proof of a collusion
between Adry and Blixt; and when Mr
Adry Hayward–not his wife, but Adry
Hayward, goes out of the way to lend
himself, his words, his oath, to the corrob-
oration of the revolver story, he betrays
his collusion with Blixt again.
Mrs. Blixt, the wife of Blixt, Anderson,
the brother-in-law of Blixt, Blixt himself
in his first and second statements, and in
his testimony here, tells the best truth of
that revolver story, that that revolver was
never there. The bullet from the wom-
an’s head refutes it. All those things
stamp the revolver story as
AN ABSOLUTE, INHUMAN LIE,
forged for the purpose of putting the
means of murder from Harry's hands in
Blixt's possession. And when Mr. Adry
Hayward goes out of his way to confirm
that testimony by his false testimony, he
shows that he is in collusion with Mr.
Blixt. For, if Anderson, the brother-in-
law, tells the truth, Blixt came in at the
back stairs; he was not there. Or if Blixt
tells the truth—when his slipping tongue
told the truth, until he was nudged to say
that he went in and went down the ele-
vator and did not go to Harry's room, or if
the mother tells the truth that she went
there and the doors were locked, then Adry
Hayward told a falsehood, when he says
he saw a light flash from the bath room
into his room, to try and confirm, and
corroborate this man Blixt in the position
of the revolver, which, unless established,
threw all suspicion from the revolver used
whose cartridges were different—which has
never appeared here before you, and which
no grand jury has investigated.
Adry Hayward, Blixt, everybody, in this
case must give away to the truth. Wher-
ever truth confronts them—wherever the
evidence is such as to be reasonable and
to blot them out, they must go. Blixt
went out beneath the testimony of wife
and brother-in-law and Mrs. Hayward, and
himself; Adry goes out with him. But
nevertheless, the fact remains that an at-
tempt to corroborate the testimony of
Blixt shows a practical and active collu-
sion between Blixt and Adry.
To corroborate the story of that revolver,
this inhuman tiger testifies, “Won’t you
go into my room at 9:30 and see if my re-
volver is under my pillow,” and he said
he would not. What in the name of Heav-
en would Harry Hayward ask Adry Hay-
ward to go into his room to discover the
means of crime used, when Adry Hayward
would not have anything to do with him?
And so, to continue that corroboration he
says he was taken into Harry's room the
morning after the murder and he there
witnessed the cleaning of the revolver; that
the revolver was taken from the trunk:
and Adry there himself contradicts Blixt
because if you recollect the testimony when
Harry and Adry went into this room to
talk over the circumstances of Miss Ging's
murder, Harry being unable to rest or
sleep, or any one there being unable to rest
or sleep, Adry wanted to keep away from
the excitement and hide himself—did not
want to discuss the murder—and you rec-
ollect the testimony, how Harry stirred
with all his might and main, trying to
find out the true story of her murder?
During all that time Harry did not go into
his room until he went in with Adry; and
when he went in Adry says the revolver
was in his trunk—and the pair broke down
right there in their collusive story.
And how does Adry further corroborate
the plan that the use of Blixt was to be
the means of murder? Why, he says Har-
ry told him, “I am through with you;
I have got a nan with nerve; you won't
go out and kill a cripple,” inferentially “for
a hundred dollars.”
“I HAVE A MAN WITH NERVE,
his name is Blixt.” Here comes again
these ringing and sounding words–Eustis
to Blixt: “What about the money she
had on her person?” Answer, “That was
a fake; she never had any money, I don't
think, of course, I don't know.” “She
had some money the other day when you
went up there and witnessed her sign that
note?” “Yes, but that was a long time be-
#: this time.” “Yes, it was a week ago?"
“Yes.”
You do not know, the court would not
permit me in this issue, and correctly so
to, to prove to you where Adry was or
what he did. The law narrows down the
prosecution to proving that this man com-
mitted the murder; they are narrowed to
that. And the defense is narrowed down
to the proposition that this man did not
commit the murder, and they cannot go
into proving affirmatively that somebody
did, for the purpose of leaving a negative
inference that he did not. The court can
only try one issue at a time. We offered to
go into it and when Mr. Hall made the un-
fortunate mistake of asking Adry whether
he had anything to do with it, in I plunged,
We Wanted to bring in that issue, and the
gourt sat there and said, “If you start that
issue what can I do?” And finally seeing
and knowing it was not in accordance with
the practice of law or rules of court he
said, “I am going to shut it out—”
Mr. Hall–I desire to take an exception
to the counsel's remarks. An exception by
the state is of little avail, but I protest
against such accusation hurled here at the
witness Adry Hayward; it was in the DOW-
er of this defense to lay a foundation to
put this crime on Adry Hayward when he
was called.
º Erwin–Inpossible, it was not the
aw.
Mr. Hall–It was in your power to make
the charge timely when you could—
Mr. Erwin-I tried to make a charge; I
leave it to your own honorable selves
whether I did not instantly take advantage
of that slip and dash in to show where
Adry went that night, and you objected to
it and the court got angry and ruled it out.
Mr. Hall–Why didn't you ask him the
question in his cross-exanºlination 2
The Court—Now, I will say to the coun-
sel, it is very improper for him to com-
ment on things which the court ruled out
in this case; and I do not thank the coun-
sel for saying the court was angry when he
ruled it out.
Mr. Erwin-Well, your honor, I will with-





482 OFFICIAL STENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
draw that, I did not mean it in its full
sense. I will say the court was apparently
perplexed and annoyed.
What credibility will you give to Mr.
Blixt, or what credibility will you give to
Adry—what credibility will you give to
Adry Hayward? False, weak, recreant to
every tie, mind, life, father and mother,
society and the law. Cringing in fear and
hiding from honest contact with anybody.
Improvising testimony and colluding with
a murderer, an acknowledged murderer, to
extenuate the murderous crime and put it
upon his own brother!
What credit will you establish in this
splendid forum of a national life, for such
a witness, for such a strange and unac-
countable person—insane in morals, in
every direction—his moral insanity proved
by every act which has passed before you;
moral obliquity so great, so crooked in that
regard, so unreliable, having no ties either
to God, to mind, to sire, to mother, to
brother, to fellow men, to society! What
credit will you give to his testimony here?
That this man Adry Hayward held up
Catherine Ging and Miss Vedder and Harry
Hayward on the night of the 27th of April
is made out here fully by a preponderance
of the testimony. The two men have been
upon the witness stand and you must
judge whether the scene which is de-
scribed almost by each took place on the
one hand on the 27th of April, or whether
it took place on the 30th of November. The
very talk with Vallely which has been
urged here as exploding and exploring the
mind of my client in order to find an
abandoned and wicked impulse—the very
simple explanation that Harry makes is
that he talked with his brother, “How
could you do these things?” and that his
brother said to him, “I have not got any
conscience; I don’t fear any of these
things;” Adry, on the other hand, says
that on the 30th day of November Harry
said, “I haven’t got any conscience; I
don’t fear any of these things.” Apply,
now you, the test of these two men.
Which of these two men violates every
element of love, which is under the control
and domain of conscience? That is the
test. Here you see Adry under the charge
of a detective, hiding from men under a
promise of immunity, in apparent collusion
with Blixt, swearing away the life of his
brother; what for? To assist Blixt to ex-
tenuate and excuse his crime. You saw
him on the witness stand; how false to the
filial instinct which God gives to sane
men, men of conscience. You saw the old
man sitting there on the stand and wept
when he told you he would have struck
him then if Harry had not stopped him;
It was the only time in his life he had
ever thought or striking the poor, weak-
minded boy, or that he ever would have
struck him. You heard Harry testify that
before mother and before father, this in-
sane man, this insane brother
ATTACKED THE VIRTUE OF HIS
MOTHER:
Which one of these two boys has con-
science? Which one of these two boys
has none? For you may rest assured that
he who has the least conscience is the
one who surprised the other for his lack
of conscience; and if the other, having
love for brother on account of family ties,
inquire of others as to conscientiousness
In other individuals than himself and nomi-
nated platitudes which the insane brother
stated he could do, the very fact of the
conversation with Vallely confirms the
statements of Harry that that scene which
took place in the office was the scene
which took place the Saturday of the 27th
of April and not upon the 30th day of No-
vember.
And then again, the father testifies that
on that day he was in the office in the
morning and the boys were there, that
Harry was there–Adry was there a few
minutes but went out. They attempt to
corroborate Adry that the father was not
there by bringing on a witness by the
name of Griffin, but the two honest wit.
nesses, man and wife, come on the wit.
ness stand and show that Griffin was at
home at the very hour at which he says
he was in the office there. So the struggle
never took place there in the evening—call
it evening for the purpose of your measure-
ment.
Your test is a test of conscience. Which
one of these two boys has conscience in
his action, acts under a healthy con-
science and observes the ties, of life? You
can make no mistake.
The collusion between Adry and Blixt,
the giving to Blixt the idea of the watch,
all these things go to sustain and are in
the line with the theory that Adry held up
this wagon. The hiring of a horse in the
postoffice alley, taking it out at 9 o'clock
to drive three miles out, and picking up his
wife and going out to take a drive, after
he had driven out three miles, and he got
back here in an hour and a half, driving
around both boulevards, and coming back,
going a. distance of nearly 13
miles, is SO preposterous and
ridiculous, that it has no excuse. And
when he brought his dear wife in on the
stand to testify that on that night they
took a ride, she would not stretch her con-
science a hair further than to say they took
a ride to the best of her knowledge, but
it was very late—a thing she might have
done, and probably did do, take a little
ride after this man had made the hold-up;
of course he would take a little ride, anx-
ious to establish an alibi, and would in-
stinctively drive with his wife or some one
else to establish it. Here comes one of the
very keys in the arch of truth which has
not been presented to you by this new,
strange and unnatural, and improvising
grand jury. Adry is a man of no con-
science; Adry is given to highway robbery:
Adry was caught by Harry in his highway
robbery of Harry and his two young
friends. How ridiculous! You recollect
what the county attorney said when we
first offered to prove that, it was shut out:
when we next offered to prove it he said,
“I don't want it in unless I can show that
this was all planned by Harry,” and I said,
“We want you to show all of that, the
doors will be open, wide open.” Oh, they
took a second thought as to whether they
would put Adry on the stand, or Adry took
a second thought as to whether he would
face the music on the stand or brave the
grand jury for an indictment for his work
on that night, or whether he would craw-
fish, fall down and deny it. There was one
of the keystones of this arch which now lies
broken at your feet. The reason of his tes-
timony appears to you; the reason of his
hate, of his collusion with Blixt, appears
to you. Here for the first time comes be-
fore this jury a reason, a glimmer, why
poor Katie Ging was murdered! For Blixt.







OF THE Haywarp MURDER TRIAL. 483
-
knew she had money, he saw her have this
$7,000, he heard her say, according to his
words, “I think I might drop dead in seeing
so much money.”
These things I am going to leave with
you. I am not going to stand up here even
in the defense of one brother, and criticize
rhetorically and for the purpose of expres-
sing my opinion in regard to the character-
istics of such brotherhood. If there is any
one thing that an American gentleman can
understand, it is the ties of kindred, father,
mother, and brother. You are as able to
understand that as the most princely man
that ever lived; you need no whip to whip
you on.
Now, let us see one step further, and I
will leave that question. Harry said he
would be silent about his brother's crime,
and Adry promised not to do this any
more. That is the natural attitude of a
brother. This is reasonable, and it is fair
to believe.
NOW, HOW DID ADRY ACT?
When Adry discovered that his brother
was not just fresh from crime, the crime
done, the wrong accomplished, but was
rather on the eve of committing the most
atrocious crime on earth, according to his
story, what did he do? Did he act like a
brother? Did he notify Miss Ging? Did
he notify his father and his mother? Did
he do anything that a brother would do,
or that a common ordinary man would do,
when he declared a thing in the condition
that he showed, showed he was not in his
right mind—“I don’t think Harry was in
his right mind that afternoon”—did he do
as a brother or a common man would do
to another common man even under such
circumstances? No, he didn’t. He went
down, according to his story, and told El-
der Stewart that Harry was contemplating
the murder of a woman, and Elder Stewart
said just exactly what you would say
now, Harry Hayward is not a fool. But
the true secret of that going, if he ever
went—I only have his word for it. I do
not regard his word as strong—the evi-
dent reason, in the presence of this col-
lusion, was to make a mark upon the
mind of Elder Stewart so that when the
job was accomplished between him and
Blixt they could put it onto Harry Hay-
ward; for, mark you, when these men
were all under arrest, Harry on the one
side stoutly maintaining his innocence,
Adry maintaining his innocence negatively,
Blixt maintaining his innocence, Mr. Adry
caused himself to be steered around, or
was steered around, and went in, and at
the very first meeting with Elder Stewart
sought that as the way out, to develop the
plot to put it on Harry. Every movement
that this insane man made is in the line of
this collusion.
Gentlemen of the jury, this is the case
the state has made. This is the eveidence
it stands on. All false, broken, distorted,
unreasonable, manufactured and displayed
before you under the old doctrine of ap-
provement, “if you will only show some-
body else did the killing, you shall get off
or receive clemency.” At best an operation
to extenuate the murder which Blixt says
he himself committed; never claimed that
Harry Hayward committed the murder or
was present, but an attempt to extenuate
a murder committed; all the proof of Har-
ry’s complicity in the hands of the person
thus seeking extenuation, and through ex-
tenuation, clemency; broken and distorted,
contradicted and destroyed, this is the
case. If there had not been a plot between
Adry and Blixt to confess, how came it
that they both confessed? Who best and
surest confesses, the innocent or the guilty?
The two guilty men confessed, claimed
clemency and extenuation, and got it.
Mr. Hall–No proof of anything of that
sort, and you know it.
Mr. Erwin–It is proved by the language
of Adry Hayward to his mother. It is
proved by the closing argument of the
county attorney, who spoke of putting this
man upon the mercy of the court. Who
confesses but guilty ones, and who stands
firm before God and man, but innocent
men 2 Was ever innocence so sorely tried
in God Almighty's world than this man's
innocence here? Was it ever so cruelly as-
saulted with such evidences of collusion
between the two confessing parties? With
all the powers of government surrounding
these confessing guilty parties, with pub-
lic press and everything faining in the
theory of these confessing guilty par-
ties, was ever mortal man
SO oppressed before? Consider
that, not for the purpose of pity, for
pity shall not move you now. Justice alone
must move you, but consider that for this
purpose. Consider it for the purpose of
recognizing the laws of God over the mind
of man. When men are so sorely oppress-
ed and put down, if they are guilty, they
yield in some particular or incoherent
thing, make mistakes, show fear, excite-
ment, tremble. These are the never fail-
ing evidences of guilt when pressed up to
the wall. Has this man ever shown any
indication of them? I charge you by the
evidence in His august laws to answer the
question whether it is possible in the pres-
ence of His economy for mortal man to
defy Him and His laws; the laws that gov-
ern man's mind, and man's heart, man's
nerves, man’s speech, man’s emotions?
No, no. No man can defy His Master or
His laws. Before you sits the evidence of
his innocence. No more sorely tried by
mortal man was a defendant in a court of
justice. Not a contrauction, not a fear,
but that which is only consistent with in-
nocence, entirely inconsistent with guilt.
Now, gentlemen of the jury, we have got
through the state's case. It is all in
pieces. It is broken and distorted. It is
to our minds absolutely unreliable. No
mind, it seems to us; no conscience who has
heard this case, but in the calm delibera-
tion of their honest moods must come to
the conclusion that the testimony of this
character, delivered in this character, un-
der these circumstances, and under this
enhancement, by these murderers and
highway robbers, can not be permitted to
be the guerdon, the vouchers, the warran-
ties of a sentence of immediate death, and
that august question comes to you.
Gentlemen of the jury, just stop now and
contemplate who was Harry Hayward, and
who was Miss Ging. Enough has been
said as to who Harry Hayward was, the
narrative has been told over and over
again. Enough has been said as to who
Miss Ging was, what a noble girl she
was; that narrative has been told over and
over again. But what were their rela-
tions, what were their friendships? They
had a close, and abiding friendship to-
wards each other. They were always in
each other's society. There wasn't one
single thing to mar their friendship or
to break their happiness, not one. Now I







484
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
want you to look at that as a solemn
fact, not an argument. It was a fact.
Here sits before you a little lady who has
won all your hearts. It could not be other-
wise. Gentle, but bright, dignified but
honorable, Christian and graceful, having
all the sweet intelligence of a dignified
young woman, she was the constant com-
panion of her aunt, and if there had been
one thing or one motion on earth which
could have been brought forward against
Harry Hayward, it would have been
brought before you. No; their peace, their
friendship, their mutual respect was un-
challenged by the most intimate acquain-
tance of their lives. You see them on Sat-
urday night before the murder of Miss
Gºing sitting in familiar friendship upon
the lounge, endeared to each other. What
is the natural logic and inference of all
these things? The natural logic and infer-
ence of all these things is, that they were
close and intimate friends, and such they
were. Now, they had had a lesson in
gambling. Miss Ging had gone in partners
with Harry in gambling matters, and what
evidence is there of gambling matters for
you to take hold of 2 And where are you
limited, and where must you stop, in your
Investigation of the gambling matter? You
have got to stop where the evidence stops;
you cannot go a step beyond. The evi-
dence here shows that Miss Ging lost
in all of her gambling transactions, but
they weren't great. They were great for
her, but not of great disastrous moment.
She lost in all a balance of about $200,
but that was easily made up, and the tes-
timony uncontradicted here is, that they
turned down a new leaf and that Harry
refused and declined to go in longer part-
ners with her, and she had turned down a
new leaf too. Now here were two loving
friends, who had explored this doctrine of
making money on the doctrine of chances,
and had turned down a new leaf, and what
is the most natural thing that they should
do? Why, one is one would seek to ad-
vance the other's interests, and so they
began to propose that the little dress-
maker shop up in the rooms of
the Syndicate Block should be
changed to a. business adventure
which would bring to Miss Ging a com-
pleter livelihood, and a better guaranty
for her future life. Was anything more
natural in the world than that between
two friends? Nothing. They talked about
it mutually, and about how it would be
accomplished. Miss Ging had been the
friendly repositary of Harry for money at
different times which he wanted to divest
himself of, in order to keep himself from
pushing it in in case he was gambling at
any time, and they talked over the busi-
ness that it would cost about $10,000 to fit
a store up in the improved style suitable
for a millinery business in this beautiful
city of Minneapolis; suitable to the taste
and character of the business on Nicollet
avertue, and she had $3,000, and if Harry
would raise the balance and take a mort-
gage upon it as security to himself, and
secure himself upon life insurance, that
she would go into business and try it. Now
this was no sudden thing. The circum-
stances of that loan are proved here be-
yond the possibility of a doubt. Now right
here, let me remind you gentlemen of the
jury, again, that you are bound by the
evidence. You cannot go off into the doc-
trine of chances to find your verdict.
You are bound by all the ties of life. You
are bound by the credible evidence in this
Case.
Now it will occur to you that if this
loan is valid, if it actually took place,
there is no motive for Harry's having
this woman killed; therefore it becomes
of the greatest importance that you in-
quire strictly as to what the evidence is
here in regard to
THE VALIDITY OF THIS LOAN.
Now, first, as to the power of Harry to
raise this money. Mr. Witherspoon testi-
fied that he had frequently seen Harry
having a great deal of money during the
last part of last year. Generally carried
it in a roll; seen hundreds of dollar bills
in such rolls. That Harry had a large sum
of money, he saw him with it prior to the
loan. Now Witherspoon is claimed by the
state to be an honest and truthful fellow,
and if he is, he is truthful here, and there-
fore it is not just to criticize Mr. Good-
sell when he swears to the same thing.
This testimony is not impeached, or im-
peachable either, because if it was they
would have impeached it. No more earn-
estly worked up case was ever presented
to a jury than this case on the part of
the state, and everything which could be
done has been done by these splendid
prosecutors in working up this case, and
if these men could have been impeached
at all, they would have been impeached.
Goodsell swears, on page 1356 of his testi-
mony, that at the Grand Pacific Hotel
on the evening of November 5, he saw
Harry have two piles of money: He
counted one, and states it consisted of 50
$100 bills. The other pile was about an inch
thick. He noticed some $5 and $10 bills,
and noticed no $1 bills. At that time he
paid him $100 on account of a note and
wrote a note for the balance.
Well, now Goodsell follows Witherspoon.
Neither is impeached. Garrity is put upon
the stand by the state, or by us.
Mr. Shoemaker–By the state.
Mr. Erwin–By the state, and he swears
on the vestibule limited coming home from
Chicago on the night of November 5, he
saw Harry have a big package of bills in
his inside coat pocket. Then comes Mr.
Simon Gittelson; he swears that on Novem-
ber 9, Harry showed the packages of bills
wrapped around with paper the same as
you take them out of the bank; the pack-
age was so thick that it was hard for him
to shove it back into his pocket. Simon
Gittelson was a witness for the state.
Witherspoon, Goodsell, Garrity, Gittelson
and Mr. Weld, the cashier of the bank
down here, swears that after September
3, 1894, he paid Harry a check of $2,600 all
in $100 bills and gave him afterwards be-
tween $3,000 and $4,000 all in $100 bills.
Here is between $6,000 and $7,000 all in
$100 bills after September 2, 1894. Well,
has any of this testimony been impeached?
No. It does not depend upon the testi-
mony of one man. The banker who paid
the bills, the men who saw the money all
testify to it, and to what might in other
cases be peculiar—it would be peculiar to
you and I-the possession after September
of between 60 and 70 $100 bills is not pecu-
liar. This is the evidence. You can't wipe
that out, and you don't want to. You
don’t want to presume any fraud here.
You want to be as humane as you can
be. You would rather let this man live
than kill him. That is your attitude.



OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
Now what conversation did Harry have
in relation to the loan.” As early as No-
vember 9 he said to Gittelson “I am go-
ing to make a loan to a friend of
mine” –Gittelson, page 1025. To Albert
Johnson he said, according to the testi-
mony of Adry Hayward, “I am going
into the dressmaking business on Nicollet
avenue with a young lady here. She is
a smart young lady and has always been
in that business. She is smart and a
good manager. I am going to invest $7,000
in the business, and I am going to get
out a life insurance policy on her life,
and she is going to give me notes to se-
cure the life insurance.” Angel testified
that on the 13th of September he stated
that he was going to loan some money
and take a life insurance policy as se-
curity; said that it was a large sum of
money, several thousand dollars. Gittel-
son, Adry Hayward, Albert Johnson, An-
gel.
On November 9 Gilbert testified that
Harry was going to make a loan to a
friend of his. He was going to start in
business on Nicollet avenue, and had taken
out a life insurance policy to be assigned
to him as collateral for the loan. Gilbert’s
testimony, page 1018.
Now let me call up a Witness whom you
will all believe. You are
TO WINDICATE HER LIFE, HER
PURITY,
and her character, and you will take her
word, won't you? Miss Ging to Waterman
on Dec. 2, “I went to Miss Ging's rooms,”
Waterman testified, “and congratulated her
on the fact of her going into business.
She seemed quite elated over the fact, and
said that she didn’t see any reason why
she could not succeed in it. Spoke of rent-
ing the store across the street which is
now occupied by Strauss & Murray; said
she had just been over there in regard to
the renting of the store, and that they
were out; said she was going over again
soon to see them in regard to the store.
I said “Miss Ging, you have a good deal of
money now, you seem to be pretty well
fixed.” She said, ‘Oh, yes, Waterman, We
can paint the town now very nicely.' "
Let us call Miss Ging again. On Nov. 24
she said to Purple, the life insurance
agent, that she intended to borrow $7,000,
and wanted the policy as collateral securi-
ty for the loan. If that don't satisfy you
call her back again. She said to Mrs. Haw-
kins, and to Mrs. Lawrence, after the 27th
of November, in conversation with Mrs.
Hawkins—she was asked, “I have heard
you are going into the millinery business
with the dressmaking business and have a
larger store. She said yes. Asked if she
was going to have everything first class,
she said yes. Asked if she was going to
trim, she said no, she was going to have
some one from abroad; said she expected to
rent a store opposite to the Syndicate
Block. This is Miss Ging. This testimony
is sacred. About the last of November she
met Mr. Goldsmith—this is Goldsmith's tes-
timony on page 1081–in the hall next door
to the agent of the store opposite the Syn-
dicate Block, and she asked for the agent
of the building. About two days later
asked Mr. Goldsmith if she could see the
agent, that she had been there several
times and could not see him. Then asked
whether Mr. Goldsmith could tell the agent
anything, and said tell him to come over
to see me at 65 Syndicate Block. Those are
talks, declarations, acts of Miss Ging.
None of these are impeached as yet by
Blixt, but if Blixt had known of these
things he would have sworn undoubtedly
in my opinion that Harry told the poor girl
to tell all these people just
these things. He would have
gone that far. He would go to any
length. But these are some things ne
didn’t know about, and therefore are the
unimpeached, binding conversations; un-
impeached declarations of the very woman
whose character you are to vindicate; dec-
larations to Goldsmith, to Mrs. Hawkins,
to Mrs. Lawrence, to Mr. Purple, to Mr.
Waterman.
The county attorney sought to turn down
all this testimony by simply asking you
“Why didn't Miss Ging count the money
in the presence of Blixt?” That is not
enough to destroy all this testimony by
Miss Ging herself. Mr. Blixt has laid his
leprous hand on the letters of Miss Kitty
Ging. He has covered her letters all over
with slime to keep your honest eyes from
regarding them as her letters, but you
are bound by the testimony, and if you
cancel her letters out, you cannot cancel
out that testimony I have just read to
you. But this testimony that I have just
read you contradicts Mr. Blixt's theory,
Blixt's whole story, and the whole story of
this prosecution. There is no need of my
taking those letters out to show you at
this late hour. I will use a copy in making
my remarks, because I have an accurate
copy. Now, without at this time discussing
the cause and condition of these letters,
let me call to your attention the sub-
stance of the letters. It is the most pro-
found libel on Kitty Ging for Blixt to say
that Harry made her write him these let-
ters. The letters stand as part of the natur-
al condition of things from which they can-
not be separated. The testimony of the
growth of the suspicion in Harry, I will
come to later on. I want to call your at-
tention now to
THE SUBSTANCE OF MISS GING'S
I.ETTER.
“Dear Friend Harry: Thinking the mat-
ter over after you left this a. m., I can-
not get that money now unless I use part
of the $7,000, and I don’t see why you want
so much money as two thousand now.
When you loaned it to me you said you
wouldn’t want it very soon, so I have
loaned it out, but I think I can get you
five hundred in a few days, and that will
certainly be all that you will need at the
Hot Springs. The 1st of January I will
have all my money, and then we can
straighten everything up. Hoping this will
be satisfactory to you, as ever,
“RATE GING.
“11th month, 29th day of the month, 1894.”
To which Harry replied:
“Miss Ging–Dear Friend Kate: I like
your nerve telling me $500 will do me,
when I wanted $2,000.” Ain't that just like
him on the witness tand? “I like your
nerve for telling me,” just exactly like
him. “I like your nerve telling me $500
would do me when I want $2,000. You know
very well when I let you have the $7,000
it was all the money I had, and you said
you would pay the other in a few days.
Now you have deliberately turned around
and told me you have loaned it out and
cannot get it until Jan. 1. Why didn't you
pey me the other day with the money you
were flashing around in Barge's restaurant?
Please look this over, and get the money



486 OFFICIAL ST ENOG RAIPHIC REPORT
before long. I told you I would let you
have the $7,000 as long as you could pay
the interest on it. All the security I have
or will have, will be a chattel mortgage
on the stock. I will stick to my part of the
bargain, so please stick to yours. Sincerely,
“HARRY T. H. A. Y \\ ^ R D
And a note right after from Miss Kate Ging
“Dear Friend Harry: You needn't be so
mad about it, you can have your In Oney
just as soon as I can get it. Last Saturday
I thought I could get it in a few days. The
money I had the other day at the restau-
rant did not belong to me. As ever,
“KATE GING...”
May it please the court, it is going to be
imposible for me to finish this argument to—
night, but I will try and do it in an hour
in the morning.
(The court here adjourned until the fol.
lowing morning at 9 o'clock.)
MORNING SESSION. MARCH. S.
Mr. Erwin (Resuming).
Gentlemen of the jury, the loan made to
Catherine Ging and sustained by such un-
Impeachable testimony, is attacked only
by Blixt. The largest stretch of imagina-
tion could not defeat the influence of the
evidence upon the mind, upon any one's
mind, as to the validity of that loan.
Far beyond the naturalness of the cir-
cumstance, the regular and coherent fol-
lowing of each circumstance after another,
In the conception, execution and giving of
the loan; far above all evidence which is
irrefragible, and which is unattacked save
by the feeble word of this vile murderer,
stands the lone figure of this murderer's
victim, Catherine Ging.
The validity of that loan is the very cita-
del of our defense. When that loan is es-
tablished the whole fabric of this mon-
strously constructed case of perjury falls
into the dust. - -
Mr. Blixt cannot impeach his victim. It
would be a monstrosity beyond parallel, to
permit the mind for the least briefest pos-
sible space to give credence to the im-
peachment of the murderer against the
words, the declarations and the acts of his
innocent victim. She speaks by her own
words and louder by her own acts, by her
declarations of intentions to her friends,
Mrs. Lawrence and Mrs. Hawkins, by her
endeavors to rent the store, by her carry-
ing money to the vault, and by renting the
vault, and by her written admissions,
which are before you and which speak
louder in this case than any other witness,
that this loan was valid.
That this generous proposition arose out of
the very love and friendship between those
two people, a condition which must be
shattered by testimony before you can
deny its truth, and yet against which there
can be brought but one word, and that
word the vile and perjured word of a vile
and inhuman murderer.
I shall not be long, and I shall not be
loud. You shall leave my presence with
no sting of whip from imagination, thought
or tongue, when you enter your cloister
for sacred judgment. You shall go there,
as far as I can send you, in deep solici-
tude and silence, entering it in the very
presence of your God. The time has
come for calm and dignified conduct on
the part of every one in this case.
I call your attention to the monstrous
and unexplained conduct of Miss Catherine
Ging, which, if the constabulary of the
state had been properly set in motion,
have undoubtedly been reserved in a man-
ner perfectly reconcilable with her Chris-
tian and noble character, and yet at the
same time would have explored the mys-
tery of this murder, which as yet remains
a mystery and concealed within the breast
of this penitential man.
For the purposes of this case you must
recognize, it seems to me, these things
which were mysterious, at least to Harry
Hayward—suspicious to him. Consider
now what his attitude was. He had loaned
her—the evidence proves it, you cannot
doubt it—he had loaned her the
large and generous sum of $7,000,
with which to turn down the new leaf in
their lives, open a larger business in her
line, in the manner and form indicated to
all their friends, to his friends and ac-
quaintances on the one side, and to her
friends and acquaintances on the other
side, by her; an open
PUBLIC AND HONEST TRANSACTION.
It had been agreed that she would re-
turn to him the $2,500 which she had re-
ceived as his repository, and the $7,000
which she had placed in the vault to re-
main sacred for an investment in business,
and to be added to the $3,000 which sne
was to put in with it. That was the back
ground of their friendship, that was his at-
titude and his good faith at that time.
This suspicious, not suspicious, but this
unexplained conduct on the part of Miss
Ging is best told in the words of Mr. Hay-
ward himself. “On Saturday when I loan-
ed the money to her, this $2,500 was to
come back; I think I really expected the
money to have been paid possibly Satur-
day, and at the time of the loan. On Mon-
day I had some talk with her, I wanted
the $2,500—I don’t know but what it was
$2,000 that I wanted first. I did not see her
at first, but finally saw her and she did
not have it, and she kind of put me off
until Tuesday–Tuesday or Wednesday.
I was not getting anxious, still I had asked
her so many times and she kept putting
me off. In the talk with her, when I com-
menced talking with her, she would com-
mence talking about something else.” This
was her manner as described by Harry and
uncontradicted by any of her intimate lady
friends; that that was the lady's man-
ner.
“She would say, ‘Oh, how is the weather,”
and put it off in that sort of a way. I
didn’t think anything about its being turn-
ed off, but I wanted it and insisted I want-
ed it; and Thanksgiving morning I was
talking about it. I wanted it and
insisted upon talking about it, at
the Same time I Was talking
about the vault in front of Miss Ireland.
I was there three times on Thanksgiving.
Friday morning I received a note, evident-
ly written to save a fuss, because if she
had told me What was in the
note She knew I would be
mad, and She evidently knew it.
That letter reads, “Thinking matters over
after you left this a. m. You see I was
there and left Thanksgiving morning, and
* came back in the afternoon again, and in
the evening, and so you see it is very evi-
dent that she had written that letter when
I was there in the afternoon. Then I wrote
my letter and received her answer. Before
this we had been in Barge's restaurant
and she had a roll of money, $2,000. The
expression, ‘That money I had at Barge's







OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL.
487
did not belong to me,’ set me to thinking
how she could have $2,000 that didn’t belong
to her. Finally on Friday she told me for
the first time that Jones & Sons did not
have her money.”
Up to that very moment he had supposed
Jones & Sons had the deposit of the $2,500.
“She would not tell me where it was; the
next day was Saturday; I went up on that
evening and I asked Miss Ireland where
she was; she told me she did not know;
she told me she was down in the office
working. I went down to the Syndicate
Block and there was nobody there; I said
to her twice that evening later, ‘You have
been out with another fellow.’ ”
Now, what was Miss Ging doing? Miss
Ging had ridden out on Tuesday evening
and on Saturday evening before, without
any knowledge of Harry, in the night time,
and as far as we know alone. These
things were known to him by his calling
upon her and by her being gone at the
time. So that, when he saw her on this
last occasion he said to her, “You have
been out with another fellow.” And here
was a signal of jealousy on the part of
Harry Hayward.
What is the root of jealousy % What is
the foundation of it? Regard, perhaps, not
love in its truest and best sense, but deep
regard, selfish regard at least, that is the
FOUNDATION OF J.E.A.LOUSY.
without it jealousy cannot arise. The
words, “You have been out with another
fellow,” tell as the res gestra, the act,
they tell that this man had deep regard
for her. She did not explain it and she did
not pay him the money, and finally she
wrote him that she could not pay him the
money until the 1st of January, and then
his suspicions were deeply aroused as to the
condition of their adventure in the busi-
ness, and he went to Mr. Waterman, whom
he had advised with before in relation to
making the loan, and asked him to go and
sea her about it.
When Mr. Waterman went to see Katy
Ging about this loan, if this loan had been
a sham, what would Kate Ging's dignified
ºonduct have been 2 What would Exate
Ging, this splendid, dignified woman, have
done? If she found that the world was ap-
proaching her and treating her as being a
prevaricator and acting under the panto-
mine of another sham 2 Would she have
lent herself to it? Is that in accordance
with her character? Cain it be possible that
you can bring your minds over to a condi-
tion where you say that she, either ac-
tively or negatively, was plotting against
her own life? The demands of the case to
make you do that exposes at once the
weakness and blindness, and foolishness of
this whole structure.
But she told Waternan she had made
the loan—that she was going into business.
And wºn at is more than that she acted out
those declaraions with pleasantry, showing
her encouragement, silencing any suspicion
which had been communicated to
Waterman’s mind by Harry's re-
quest, and he canne back and
assured Harry everything was all right,
the woman was all right. “The money is all
right, you need not be suspicious,” and for
the time being calmed his supicions under
his jealousyº In the meanwhile Harry had
made preparations to try and ascertain
whether this seven thousand dollars was
in fact intact, or whether there was any
grounds for suspicion that she was using
it in a way other than was intended by
their mutual contract.
So stood the condition of mind between
these two people when the night of the
third of December came with its falling
shadow.
Now, gentlemen, from this time on the
question is mathematic. You, now, in the
measurement of the evidence, have to use
mathematical calculation. You ought to
have a memorandum—some of the jurors
ought to have a memorandum of these
times, so that in your discussions you can
refer to absolute testimony in regard to the
time and not become confused, because
they are conflicting; they are a long list.
It is testified to by Fisher, and by Gold-
stone, and by Waterman, that Harry re-
mained down town until half past 6 o'clock.
Goldstone and Fisher, to say the least, are
disinterested witnesses—no claim could pos-
sibly be made by the state that there was
any possible chance of bias in either one
of their cases; and their testimony ought
to be final with you against the testimony
of all other witnesses who may be said
to be interested in this case. And these
gentlemen, you see, shut out Blixt, as to
the giving of the revolver, and as to the
receiving of instructions, and as to all of
those things which he said happened be-
fore 7 o'clock in his testimony.
Now, according to the testimony of
Fisher and Waterman, they walked up to
the Ozark and they got there at about 6:45,
a quarter to 7. Now, Blixt testifies to you
that the whisky was brought to him at 6
o'clock. It seems to me you have to
CANCEL THE WHISE Y
out of Blixt's testimony on these mathe-
matics. He says between 6 and 7 the re-
volver was brought to him. On the mathe-
matics of this case, with out reference
to the other conditions, you will have to
cancel the revolver out of the case.
Mrs. Blixt says that she saw Harry at
the Ozark between 6 and 6:30. You will
have to cancel out her computation of
time, because he was at the Ozark until
nearly 7 o'clock. And this woman, acting
in the aid of her husband, upon a matter
where she could be very easily mistaken
in memory as to the time, the hour, must
give away to the logic and mathematics
of this testimony.
Anderson says Harry was in the base-
ment at 6:30 and remained there 15 min-
utes, and on the mathematics of this dis-
interested witness, he being a disinterested
witness, he must be canceled out of your
mind upon the fair and generous construc-
tion of weigning principals.
Tucker says he was there at 7 o'clock,
which is in accordance wit the testimony
of these other men who went with him,
arriving there at 6:45. Tucker was right;
Harry testified to that himself.
Now, what was done? Harry was, at
5:45, at Fisher's; there to 6:30 or 6:35; that
is testified to by Waterman, Fisher and
Fisher's clerk, Goldstone. Goldstone came
in at 6:25 and he saw them leave for the
Ozark.
Now, Miss Vedder saw Fisher and Water-
man arrive at 6:50—these words are taken
direct from the testimony and they will
help you if you can memorize them very
much in your deliberations. Miss Vedder
saw Fisher and Waterman arrive at 6:50,
at a quarter to 7–at 6:45 to 6:47 Harry went
to the basement a moment, thinks he did,
between 6:45 and 6:47, and then went to his
-






483
OFFICIAL STENOG RAF HIC REPORT
-
room and changed his clothes till 7, then
went up to Miss Ireland's flat for a mo-
ment, 7 :05—a matter which Miss Ireland
does not remember, and it is immaterial
except as to point of time. Then went out
through the basement—he saw Blixt when
he was going up to Miss Ireland's the first
time, and Blixt spoke of a sewing machine;
Blixt then went out apparently, although
Harry does not testify to it—apparently,
from the testimony of others, Blixt then
went out of the building.
Now, from 7 o'clock and five minutes to
7:22 Harry was at dinner. This is proved
by Fisher, who went to dinner at 6:48 to
6:47, and left before Harry. It is proved
by Waterman, who went to dinner at 6:50,
that Harry was not there, and left at 7:15
and Harry was there.
Mr. Hall. He says he doesn’t know.
Mr. Erwin. He says he thinks he was
there.
Mr. Hall. He says he doesn't know.
Mr. Erwin. Yes, that is right. Turn to
Waterman's testimony, Walter. Miss Ved-
der, was at dinner at 6:50, remained 15 or
20 minutes, and that Harry came just be-
fore she left, and Harry had just gone be-
fore she left. Lucy was at dinner at 6:45
to 7:10 and Harry was not there when he
came, but had gone when he left at 7:10.
Mr. and Mrs. Hayward were at dinner at
6:45 to 7:05, and Harry wasn’t there. Harry
probably came in about seven minutes after
seven, just after his mother and father had
gone out, as appears by the construction of
the testimony of all the others. But Fisher,
the most disinterested witness on this alibi,
says that he heard Harry's voice in the
dining room at 7:20. Mrs. Mathes, says,
Harry was there a few minutes after 7, and
shortly before 7:18. Every witness there, all
of them, Fisher, Waterman, Miss Vedder,
Lucy, the two Haywards, Mrs. Mathes, all
of them conjoin together, are harmonious
and place it beyond all possibility of cavil
or doubt that Harry was in that dining
roorn up to 7:15 or up to 7.20, somewheres
between 7:15 and 7:20, and the reasons of
their memory is all given to you, and there
is no possible chance to disbelieve their
testimony, much less to disbelieve it, upon
the broken and distorted words of Blixt,
aided as much as it possibly can be by the
impression or mistake.
EITHER PURPOSELY OR NOT,
I don't know, of this man Wilson. They
shut out Wilson. These witnesses shut Wil-
son out, and when the mathematics of
these six or seven witnesses, disinterested
in their character, shut Wilson out, you
can come to understand how it is that Mr.
Wilson himself varies and wobbles and
denies himself in his own conversations.
Here are the calm mathematics of this
case, shutting out the two most remarka-
ble witnesses here, these most remarkable
volunteers. No wonder Mr. Wilson wob-
bles and impeaches himself. Mr. Wilson
swears he saw the Goosman rig
at the corner of Lyndale by a.
high fence. I have no doubt he did see the
rig. “I saw a horse coming right into
mine, as I was turning onto the boulevard,
and the rig followed me out the boulevard
at least two blocks. The woman was Miss
Ging. I have described the man who I
thought was in the buggy; and the next
day picked him out.” That you know can-
not be true, because if he picked Hayward
out as the man that was in that buggy,
and told the officer, as he says he did, they
would never have discharged Hayward, as a
-
man imposed upon by circumstances. The
whole official integrity of the town and of
the inquisition silences and rebukes Mr.
Wilson. He didn’t do any such thing.
Now as to his testimony, and he must
stand on his word in regard to time; you
cannot extend it. He comes before you as
a suspicious witness, one who has re-
mained silent until by dramatic action he
can startle somebody. It is supicious in
its character, and you must hold him to
strict criticism. “I left my barn at exactly
10 minutes after 7, took about five minutes
to drive out on the boulevard”—ten min-
utes and five is fifteen—“I had never seen
Mr. Hayward before that time. The man in
the buggy had a little brown stiff hat.”
Well, that colored brown stiff hat dis-
tinguished in the night time from black by
him must have been antcipatory of a
brown stiff roast by the whole community
for this whole false testimony. Now he
says he was on the boulevard at fifteen
minutes past seven, and he fixed
the time by his watch at the stable,
and verifies the time by his watch when
he gets home, so you are not at liberty to
move him about like a pawn on a chess
board, either this way for the purpose of
construction or that way. You have got to
let him stand just where he stood. He is
empiracal and absolute, and he has got
to see just what he saw. No doubt he
saw the Goosman rig, but he did not see
Harry Hayward, for Harry Hayward is
proved here by the disinterested witnesses
in this case to have been at the dining
room table in the Ozark at that very mo-
ment. Wilson said to Danforth–Danforth
said to him, “Did you see who was in the
buggy?” and he said to Fisher, “No, the
top was up and I couldn’t tell.” He said
to Harry D. Davis, of the People's Bank,
on the 27th of January, “I have a chance
to make $400 or $500 in the Ging murder
case out of old man Hayward.” He said
to James Ward in the early part of Febru-
ary, “They can’t do anything with Harry
Hayward; it wasn't him that I saw in the
buggy on the boulevard,” and he said to
Louis Laramie, a man whom you all know,
of most honorable and thorough character,
and he said that to him on the morning of
the murder, and Louis Laramie you cannot
and dare not disbelieve if you are honest
with yourself—he said to Louis Laramie,
when Louis asked him, “Could you see
who was in the buggy?” “No, I couldn’t;
the top was up. It was dark. I looked
back, but I could not see who was in the
buggy.” Now will you take Mr. Wilson's
own word spoken immediately after this
murder and make him say then what you
believe? If you do you will probably do
exactly right. He did see the rig, for he
knew it, and
HE SAVV THE THIRD MAN.
He saw the man who got in the buggy with
Kate Ging, whether it was the man who
got in the buggy as Grindall says, or
whether he got in at another place, he saw
that man, and that man was afterwards
seen by the two boys when he drove that
rig in. Those two boys were Mr. Stevens
and Mr. Woods. Now Mr. Stevens and
Mr. Woods are exact. When they heard
the buggy coming they were startled and
they both looked up. One of their eyes
struck the light on the lines, and followed
the light on the lines in, don't you see,
on vision. The other one looked at the
man, and did not follow the light on the
lines with his eye. Now, what did they see?




OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 489
I don’t care which one you believe, but
you can harmonize both, and that the court
will tell you it is your duty to do. The boy
who looked upon the lines, mark you, did
not see the driver's face, but he run the
lines back here until he saw the hands
were high, and he saw an overcoat but-
toned up on the man. Well, Blixt had no
overcoat that night. Now Stevens, on the
other hand, his vision was a little higher
fixed. The startled vision of a man always
is focused close, and on the face of this
man he saw that there were whiskers. Ev-
erything in this case goes to show you
that there was a third man there and you
can harmonize now Wilson's statement,
and only harmonize it in that way.
This testimony of the alibi shuts out Mr.
Jenks. Now, look at his conduct—look at
the characteristics of Mr. Jenks. I am
not going to stop to crticise him; the whole
world is laughing at him. The whole world
today is laughing at that man that could
stand in the light of an electric car back
in the dirty vestbuled windows and look
out and recognize a man that he had never
seen, 75 feet away. When you look out of
a window at night you are still, and you
are practically in the dark. But on an
electric lighted car—their light is very
much different than the ordinary light of
a lamp, and you could not see anybody
out there, much less is feet away. On
these cars, fully lighted between Minne-
apolis and St. Paul, you cannot recognize
a man on the sidewalk, only 45 feet from
the street. No wonder they laugh at this
man. It is an awful travesty and a shame.
The circumstances of his not knowing him
until he came down here and got some of
the officers to run him in order to recog-
nize him by his gait, is one of the fun-
niest ways to identify anybody. The idea
of taking a horse and get a man to trot
him and recognize him that way. It might
do to identify a horse, but it won’t do to
identify a man whose life you are asked
to take.
Harry was at his mother's flat at 7:26, as
testified to by his mother and his father.
The reasons for being there are pathetic;
he wanted Miss Ging to spend the evening
In the presence of his mother. He was at
Miss Ireland's flat at 7:30. Now mark you,
in the opening the state had a theory based
upon his testimony, and that was that
Harry did not leave the Ozark until after
7:30, and so you heard Blixt swear that he
did not go out of the Oark till 7:30. Mrs.
Blixt swore that Blixt did not go out of the
Ozark until 7:30. Anderson swore that he
went out of the Ozark at 7:25, and Tucker
that he went out of the Ozark just before
he shifted the elevator work. Mrs. Blixt,
Anderson and Tucker all hold Blixt there
until 7:30, and the theory of the state was
that he went down after 7:30, in accordance
with the story of Blixt. In order to defeat
the natural and logical evidence that a
third man assisted Claus A. Blixt, as yet
unknown to the world here, and after have
ing announced its theory, sworn its wit.
nesses upon that theory, arranged its forces
and set its battle line, the state had to
countermarch before you and change, and
set up a new theory. To save Wilson and
to save Jenks, they were obliged to leave
the battle that they had set, the earnest,
honest belief which they had put down be-
fore you, and change their front and the
character of their attack, and the character
of their logic. This tells you by words and
terms stronger than I could use what º
opinion of the state itself, its officers and its
friends at the very outset of this case, after
the fullest possible inquiry had been made,
and the reason, mark you, the reason—and
that is the cruel thing—that they changed
that thing was because of circumstances
and evidence coming out here not through
the defendant, but through
THE ACT OF GOD AND PROVIDENCE,
showing to you and to the world that the
third man whom Blixt had helping him
kill this woman was seen with this woman
at 15 minutes past seven. This incident
marks how annibition and strife and the
contest even of a law suit will lead men to
bend the truth even against human life.
It gives you an earnest of their sincerity
which parades this opinion before you ask-
ing you to follow them. You know where
Harry went after that; he went innmedi-
ately over in the route which he described,
in the manner he described, and for the
purposes he described, and finally came to
the theater, finally came back to the house.
Now how did he act after he got back to
the house? How would a man whose sus-
picions had been increased by finding Miss
Ging had gone that night; after the talk
with Waterman; after she had told Goos-
man not to let Harry know she was out,
and intended to stay away; when his sus-
picions had been again aroused, and he
had gone off to the neighbors simply to
allay the disquiet of his own mind. How
would you feel, how would anyone feel,
how would he feel when he learned that
there had been an accident, that the
woman was held up, or thrown out of the
buggy, or something was done? When
jealousy exists in the mind—now mark
you this is fine, but it is right—when jeal-
ousy exists in the human heart, and anger
is there with jealousy, a conformation of
jealousy or loss occurring about the jeal-
ousy or through it moves to anger and a
sense of justification for the jealousy itself,
and that natural movement of the mind
showed that that was the condition of
Harry's mind at that very hour, proving
logically here by the laws of mind and his
condition the faithfulness of his testimony
in regard to his condition. Never did he
have a chance to show tenderness. Never.
did he have a chance to digest this horrible
and mysterious thing. He instantly told
the officers that this woman was murdered
for money. He instantly produced the
proof. It was him who stopped the idea.
of accident; it was him that broke up that
idea. He put the state upon the right
track himself. He said his suspicions were
that she had been done up; that he "…s
done up. Now, what would a guilty man
have done? By that law of conscience
which I cited to you yesterday, when the
motive has been accomplished, when the
act has been accomplished that the motive
usurped conscience with, then comes fear,
dismay, concealment. It did not come
here; but, with this accident, with this
knowledge, came the natural consequences
of this jealousy. Had he acted with great
tenderness it would have been the strong-
est possible testimony against him, for
he swore and proved at the same time
that his suspicions had been aroused in
relation to that money, and that he was
trying to find out through himself and
friends where that money was. And when
he had acted as he did, which looks
** and unnatural, perhaps, unless you





490
OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
understand the circumstances, the law of
his hºing, by your conception of the laws
which govern the mind and soul, it ap-
pears to you by the strongest possible
proof that this man acting in accordance
with his beliefs, and naturally and not
artifically.
I have endeavored to analyze the testi-
mony in this case, believing that before
you would commit yourselves to a verdict
you would analyze the testimony, and I
have endeavored to assist you. My re-
sponsibility in this case ends here. It has
been a fatiguing matter to me, for two
days here, to confine myself entirely to
analysis of testimony, and not to permit
myself even the relief of the exercise of
imagination while speaking for over 11
hours to you upon the subject matter.
I have, as far as I could, kept myself, my
ambition, and everything, back, in order
to assist you, and I feel, although “lamely
and unfashionably,” I have done the best
I could. I have brought to you analysis
as far as I could.
A MONSTROUS PROSECUTION.
I cannot help but be impressed, gentlemen
of the jury, and I will be responsible for
my opinion as long as I shall live, that this
case is the most monstrous prosecution
which has ever ocucrped in the annals of
criminal jurisprudence. That it is charge-
able to the evil intent of no one man, or set
of men, but rather to the errors and mis-
takes of many men, I can plainly see. I am
not here at this time to criticise anyone in
relation to the mistakes or emotions which
have permitted the growth of this hellish
tidal wave of rage and anger which sweeps
away the minds, the intellects, the con-
sciences of men. I am here to protest
against it; to set my feeble face against
this coming breaker of iconoclasm, dashing
forward under the leadership of hell itself,
and assaulting the growth of a Christian
civilization. If the wave of fanaticism and
brutality shall bear me down, my last cry
to you is, “Fight or, my merry men, fight
ºn,” for conscience, for mercy, for intel-
lect, for Him. Out from the fall of War-
wick sprung the commercial age, and the
foundation of governments was reared for
the purposes of human peace and industry.
It may be—Oh! God, can it be? That the
dawn is breaking so that our race can see
the God-created soul of man and brother 2
Amen—A men! God in His mercy may have
purposes to subserve by the martyrdom of
His human creatures. He seems to sacrifice
one of His sons to advance a poor, weak
brother. If you will, in obedience to the
tremendous pressure which has been urged
upon you, tear down all the rules of law,
all of the elements of common sense, all of
your ordinary actions, and become blind
creatures like chips upon the storm wave
to the wave itself, then is the only bul-
wark of civil and American lib-
erty washed, for this time at least,
out from its sure foundation. If fanati-
cism and the monstrosity of this union be-
tween the perjurer, the highway robber
and the vile murderer, conducted to the
witness stand with all the pomp and power
of government—if these things are to move
you, instead of your calm, deliberate, an-
alytical mind, presided over by the angels
of justice and of mercy, then tell youd ar-
tisans to take down from the dome of
your court houses the figure representing
the angel of justice, holding in her right
hand the scales of truth. Tell then to
put in her place the figure of a broken,
terrible wanton, a hag of hell and inco-
herence in the struggle of honest minds and
honest intent and aspiriation. Let her
blink from behind the distorted folds of
her bandage, put on her eyes only to dupe
the public. Take down your flag, the flag
of your republic, the red, the white
the blue—the red emblematic of the blood
of the divine Martyr; the white, of the
immaculate purity of His spirit and His
life; the blue of the skies to which He has
ascended—earth, blended with heaven, set
with stars, the flag of freemen, and
bid your officers lift up in the heavens
which you create that black field of pol-
ished perjury on which is painted as the in-
signia of its monstrous economy a human
tiger. March your republic to the church
of penitence as erected in this case; tear
down the monuments of all your re-
ligions and your martyrs. These figures,
oh, jurymen, it seems to me, will frown out
a calm inquiry into the hellish elements of
this most merciless prosecution. Do you
worship Baal?
Your honor, I am done. I leave my client
in this jury's hands, judgments, con-
sciences. And you, gentlemen of the jury,
are in the hands of God. No power can
harm or mar or hold or control your ver-
dict. You are the conscience of this na-
tion. Beware that you do not betray the
conscience of this nation to our common
Master.
JUDGE SMITH'S CHARGE.
To the Jury.
Judge Smith. The defendant, Harry T.
Hayward, is cnarged by the indictment on
which he is now being tried with the crime
of murder in the first degree, which is de-
fined by the criminal code to be the killing
of a human being, unless it be excusable
or justifiable, when perpetrated with a
premeditated design to effect the death of
the person killed or of another. The in-
dictment in this case contains two counts,
or, in other words, charges the offense to
have been committed in two different
Ways.
The first count, or charge, stripped of
its technical legal verbiage, charges that
the defendant, on the 3d day of December,
1894, in the county of Hennepin, state of
Minnesota, without the authority of law
and without excuse or justification there-
for, and with a premeditated design to
effect the death of Catherine Ging, a human
being, did kill and murder her by aiding:
and abetting and inducing and procuring
one Claus A. Blixt to unlawfully shoot her
with a leaden bullet discharged from a
pistol, which entered and passed through
her head, thereby causing her death; and
that Blixt, in aid of the defendant and at
his procurement, perpetrated the act with
the same premeditated design on his part
to effect the death of Catherine Ging, un-
lawfully and without excuse or justifica-
tion.
The second count, or charge, in the in-
dictment, charges the defendant with the
same premeditated design to kill Catherine
Ging at the same time and place named
in the first count, by shooting her himself
personally. There has been no evidence
introduced by the state to support the
charge in the second count of the indict-
ment. It is not now claimed by the state
that the defendant killed Miss Ging by
shooting her himself, but that he aided and







OF THE Haywarp MURDER TRIAL. 491.
abetted and induced and procured Claus
A. Blixt to do the shooting and killing;
that the defendant was an accomplice and
the main instigator of the murder. The
defendant can only be convicted, if at all,
of the charge as stated in the first count,
in the indictment, to which I have called
your attention; he cannot be on the sec-
ond.
It is the law of this state that a person
concerned in the commission of a crime,
whether he directly commits the act con-
stituting the offense, or aids or assists in
its commission, whether present or absent,
and a person who directly or indirectly
commands, induces or procures another to
commit a crime, is a principal and shall be
indicted and punished as such. So, if the
defendant commanded, induced or procured
Blixt to kill and murder Miss Ging, and he
did kill and murder her in pursuance of and
in obedience to such command, inducement
or procurement, although the defendant
was not present at the time of the killing,
and took no part in the act of killing, and
did not personally fire the shot that pro-
duced her death, he would be a principal
in the act and equally as guilty as if he
had been present and had done the act
himself; if he had premeditated the design
to effect her death; that is, if it had been
contemplated and decided upon by him be-
fore the act was done, the accomplishment
of the design by Blixt in effecting her
death, in pursuance of such command, in-
ducement or procurement, would be suf-
ficient to charge the defendant as principal
in the crime and justify a verdict against
him for murder in the first degree perpe-
trated in the manner alleged in the first
count of indictment. Under the evidence
as it stands in this case, if the defendant
is found guilty, it must be of murder in
the first degree. So your verdict must be
“Not guilty” or “Guilty in the manner and
form as alleged in the first count of the
indictment.”
When a person is charged with a crime
the law presumes him to be innocent until
he is proven guilty. The fact that he has
been indicted and called upon to stand
trial on the offense charged does not re-
move that presumption, and the presump-
tion continues until it is removed by evi-
dence which will satisfy the jury of his
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
IN ORDER TO CON VICT
the defendant and to justify you in bring-
ing in a verdict of guilty under this indict-
ment you must be satisfied from all the
evidence in the case of his guilt of the
offense charged in the first count of the
indictment beyond a reasonable doubt.
That is, when the whole evidence in the
case, carefully examined, compared and
weighed by you, produces in your minds a
settled conviction or belief of the defend-
ant's guilt, such a conviction as you would
he willing to act upon in matters of the
highest concern relating to your own af-
fairs. The evidence should leave your
minds in that condition that you can say
you feel an abiding conviction to a moral
certainty of the truth of the charge. Ab-
solute certainty is not required; but a rea-
sonable certainty, such a certainty as salt-
isfies your reason and judgment to the ex-
tent that you would feel bound to act con-
scientiously upon it.
Juries in criminal cases should not con-
vict on suspicion or upon a preponderance
of evidence, as in civil cases; but only upon
evidence establishing the guilt of the de-
fendant beyond a reasonable doubt, and
inconsistent with any hypothesis of inno-
cence that can be reasonably drawn from
it. Before a person can be convicted of
murder it is necessary to prove the death
of the person named in the indictment as
having been killed, and the fact
of killing by the defendant as
alleged in the indictment. Each must be
established as independent facts. The for-
mer by direct evidence and proof, and the
latter beyond a reasonable doubt. In this
case the pleof is oeyond any controversy,
and as I understand, it is conceded by the
defense that Catherine Ging, the person
named in the indictment as having been
killed on the 3d of Decembr last, is dead,
and that she came to her death in a vio-
lent manner and from injuries received
from the hands of some third person. It is
claimed by the state, and it has intro-
duced evidence tending to support that
claim, that she came to her death from a
bullet discharged from a pistol, and which
passed through her head. It has been
claimed by the defendant that she was
killed by a blow on her head which frac-
tured her skull, and that the pistol shot
was made after death. It is immaterial
which claim is correct, that of the state
or that of the defense, in so far as the
question as to what caused her death is
concerned. It matters not whether it re-
sulted from a pistol shot, blow or other like
act of violence. It is not necessary that the
proof in that regard should strictly con-
form to the charge as laid in the indict-
ment. I take it that the only object of the
claim of the defense that she was killed
by a blow and not by a pistol shot was to
contradict and discredit the testimony of
the witness Blixt as to how the killing was
done. To what extent the defense has suc-
ceeded in that effort it is for you to de-
termine from all of the evidence or testi-
mony bearing on that question. The state
claims that Catherine Ging was killed by
the act of Claus A. Blixt, and that it has
established that claim by the testimony
of Blixt when he confesses that he killed
her, and details the circumstances attend-
ing the horrible act, and by other corrob-
orating testimony. I do not understand
that the defense denies that he killed her,
but claims that he did it at another place
and in a different manner than that testi-
fied to by him; that his statemtnts, both in
and out of court, are inconsistent and im-
probable. In considering and determining
this question, you have a right to take into
consideration the condition that
BLIXT'S MIND
must necessarily have been in that night
during that journey, and the probability of
his noting every detail of that terrible
transaction. In order to convict the de-
fendant, under the first count in the indict-
ment, it is necessary that you be satisfied
from the evidence, beyond a reasonable
doubt–First, that Claus A. Blixt killed
Miss Ging; second, that the defendant in-
duced or procured him to kill her.
The first question on this branch of the
case you will consider after retiring to
your room, will be: Is the evidence suf-
ficient to satisfy you beyond a reasonable
doubt that Blixt killed her? If it is not,
then you need not consider the case any
further, but return a verdict of “not
guilty.” If you are satisfied, beyond a
reasonable doubt, that Blixt did kill her,
then you will proceed further and deter-
mine whether you are satisfied, beyond a






492 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
reasonable doubt, from all the evidence,
that the defendant procured and induced
him to kill her. If you are, then you will
return a verdict of “Guilty as charged in
the first count in the indictment.” If you
do not so determine or find, then you will
return a verdict of “Not guilty.” If it is
true, as Blixt has testified, that he killed
Miss Ging, and that the defendant in-
duced and procured him to do the killing,
he was an accomplice, and the defendant
cannot be convicted on his testimony un-
less he is corroborated by such other evi-
dence as tends to convict the defendant
of the commission of the offense. The cor-
roboration is not sufficient if it merely
shows the commission of the offense or
the circumstances thereof. The corrobor-
ating testimony must, independently of
the testimony of Blixt, tend in some de-
gree to establish the guilt of the defend-
ant; but it need not be sufficient, standing
alone, to justify a conviction.
It is claimed on the part of the state that
Blixt's testiminoy is corroborated by the
testimony of Adry Hayward, wherein he
testifies that the defendant, three days
prior to the murder, told him in substance
that he was going to procure Blixt to kill
Miss Ging, and by other facts and circum-
stances which, it is claimed, tend to show
that Blixt's testimony. in that regard, is
correct. This rule requiring corroborating
evidence is applicable to his testimony in
relation to the defendant's inducing and
procuring him to kill her, as well as to the
claim that Blixt killed her, and to any
material matter which is in issue in this
Case.
The corroboration may be made by cir-
cumstantial evidence, as well as by direct
testimony. In most criminal cases, it be-
comes hecessary to resort to circumſtantial
evidence. Criminal acts are usually per-
formed in secrecy; evidence should not be
discredited because it is circumstantial,
It is often more reliable than the direct
testimony of eye witnesses, when it points
irresistibly and exclusively to the commis–
sion by the accused of the crime. A ver-
dict of guilty in such cases may rest upon
a surer basis than when rendered upon the
testimony of eye witnesses, whose memory
must be relied upon and whose passions or
prejudices may have influenced them. Cir-
cumstantial evidence, to be entitled to
credit, must be corroborated by direct tes-
timony or must rest upon facts which to
prove the truth of the charge made, must
collectively tend to prove and establish the
guilt of the accused.
ALL THAT SHOULD BE REQUIRED
of circumstantial evidence is that there be
positive proof of the facts from which the
inference of guilty is to be drawn, and from
which no other reasonable inference can be
drawn. When all of the circumstances
arising from proven facts point in the one
direction of guilt, and to the exclusion of
any other hypothesis, it constitutes the
higher form of evidence which the law de-
mands when the life or liberty of the ac-
cused is at stake, and which courts and
jurors should accept and not disregard.
In this case the state is not relying alone
on circumstantial evidence to convict; but
relying upon it as corroborative of other
and positive evidence, not only as to the
Elaim that Blixt killed Miss Ging, but that
the defendant induced and procured him
to kill her. The state relied on the posi-
tive testimony of Blixt that he killed her
and the testimony of Adry Hayward that
the defendant told him, a few days before
the murder, that Blixt was going to kill
her; and all the facts relating to where the
body was found, the condition of the body,
the character of the wounds and many
other circumstances relating to the con-
duct of Blixt that night, which he has
testified to, which may be considered as
corroborative of Blixt's testimony. You
have a right to consider all of those cir-
cumstances, and others, if they appear to
you from the evidence in connection with
the testimony of Blixt and Adry
and determine whether they are cor-
roborative of their testimony or.
not; and say, when they are all considered
and weighed together, whether they consti-
tute sufficient proof to satisfy your minds
beyond a reasonable doubt that Blixt killed
Catherine Ging as alleged in the indictment.
If they do not so satisfy your minds, you
need not consider the case any further, but
return a verdict of “Not guilty.” But if
you are satisfied, beyond a reasonable
doubt, from all the evidence applicable to
that branch of the case, that Blixt did kill
her, then you will proceed further and de-
termine from the evidence whether the de-
fendant commanded, induced or procured
Blixt to do the act. -
To establish this branch of the case the
state is not relying upon circumstantial evi-
dence alone. It claims that there are many
more circumstances corroborative of its di-
rict testimony than on the other branch of
the case. The state claims that it has the
direct testimony of Blixt that the defend-
ant procured him to kill Miss Ging, and the
direct testimony of Adry that the defendant
told him a few days before the murder that
he had or could (you will remember which)
procure Blixt to kill her. It claims that
the direct testimony is supported by many
circumstances, some based upon undisputed
facts and some on disputed matters, the
truth or falsity of which you will be called
upon to determine from the evidence.
Whenever you find a circumstance estab-
lished from evidence which tends to an in-
ference either as to the guilt or innocence
of the defendant, you will make its proper
application and give it such weight as
original or corroborative evidence as it is
entitled to. There has been a large amount
of testimony introduced in this case; more
than 100 witnesses have been sworn and ex-
amined; over 50 on behalf of the state and
a few more than that number on behalf of
the defense. Only one of them, Claus A.
Blixt, giving direct testimony as to the
perpetration of the crime and the defend-
ant's connection there with, aside from the
evidence of Adry Hayward as to the decla-
rations of the defendant that he was go-
ing to procure Blixt to kill her. The tes-
timony of all the others relates to matters,
if established as facts, from which you are
asked to draw inferences tending to estab-
lish the guilt or innocence of the accused.
It is unnecessary for me, and it would be
entirely improper to do so, to call your at-
tention to all of this testimony in detail.
You have heard it all, and have given your
earnest and careful attention to it as it was
presented to you. Your minds have been
refreshed as to all the important points in
an able and eloquent manner by the learn-
ed attorneys for the respective parties.
You are the sole judges of the facts and of
the weight and convincing power of the
evidence. The court can only assist you
by calling your attention to the respective


OF THE HAY WARD MURDER TRIAL. 493
claims of the state and the defense, and in-
struct you as to the law by which you are
to be governed in considering and weighing
the testimony and applying it to those
claims. Persons do not ordinarily commit
grievous crimes, involving serious conse-
quences to themselves, especially when the
crime is designed and premeditated, as is
charged against the defendant in this case,
without some motive. The state claims that
the defendant had a
MOTIVE IN TAKING THE LIFE
of Catherine Ging, and that it has pro-
duced evidence which it claims tends to
prove such motive. The defendant claims
he had no such motive, and that the tes-
timony does not tend to establish it. If
you are convinced, from the evidence, that
he had a motive for committing the crime,
you may consider it as a circumstance
tending to support the claim of the defend-
ant's guilt. But if you are not con-
vinced on the testimony that the defend-
ant had an adequate motive for the mur-
der, that fact may be considered by you
as a circumstance in favor of his inno-
cence. Thus you see that motive may be
an important element for you to consider
in this case, as tending to establish the
guilt or innocence of the accused.
The state claims that the motive which
actuated the defendant to commit the crime
was to obtain money and replenish his
exchequer; that he had followed the busi-
ness of gambling, until he had lost nearly
all, if not all, of the fortune his father
had given him; that he had gained the
confidence and affections of Catherine
Ging; that he had induced her to enter
into the gambling business with him, fur-
nishing him money for that purpose, until
the little accumulations from he business
had been swept away andl ost at the gam-
ing table; that he realized that she would
be unable to assist him to any more
Hºoney; that in his desperation to Continue
his disreputable business which he could
not do without more money, he planned
the scheme of getting her life insured for
a. large amount, having the policies assigned
to him to secure a fictitious loan, and
then take her life and obtain the insurance.
And if, as a mater of fact, he did let her
have any amount of money, he got it back
from her before she was killed; that it was
improbable, in view of the defendant's
statement and acts in regard to his finan-
cial matters, that he had the amount of
money he claimed to have had at that time
to loan; that if he had, it was improbable
that a man of intelligence, situated as the
defendant was, without employment or any
other business or means of support, would
have loaned all that he had in the world
without any security except the assignment
to him of the life insurance policies which
the defendant admits were of no present
value or of any value in the near future,
unless she should die; with a verbal prom-
ise that she would secure the loan by a
chattel mortgage on the goods that were
to be purchased with the money loaned—no
time being fixed or agreed upon when the
purchase should be made or the business
commenced; that it is improbable that he
would have been so particular to invest-
gate the question of life insurance so fully
and carefully for two months or more be-
fore the insurance was effected, and be so
particular at the time this $7,000 note was
given to have it witnessed, and the full
amount of money paid over to her without
deducting the $2,500 which he was to have
-
back, and having the assignments of the
policies made to him, knowing at the same
time that they were of no value as security
for the loan unless she should die, unless
he had intended to realize out of the in-
surance by her death.
On the other hand, it is claimed by the
defense that this was a bona fide loan by
the defendant to Miss Ging on the 24th
day of November last, of $7,000; that he
had let her have a short time prior to that
money at three different times aggregating
the sum of $2,500; that the $7,000 was loaned
to her for the exclusive purpose of being
invested in enlarging her business; that it
was to be secured by a chattel mortgage
on the goods purchased by the money so
loaned; that the life insurance policies were
assigned to him as a temporary security
in case she should die before he got the
mortgage security, and as additional se-
curity; that the reason he gave her this
money before she was ready to use it in
her business was that he desired to place
it beyond his control, so that he could not
use it for gambling purposes; and from the
frank manner in which, after the death of
Miss Ging, he disclosed to the officers his
business transactions with her, withholding
nothing.
THE PRESUMETION IS
that there was no fraud in the Ioan trans-
action or that the money loaned had been
returned at the time, and it is incumbent on
the state to prove that there was. It is
not necessary that the proof be made by
direct testimony. It may be proved by
circumstantial evidence. It may be estab-
lished by such legal evidence as shall sat-
isfy your minds. You are not bound to
accept as true the testimony of any wit-
ness uncorroborated, even when it is not
contradicted by any direct testimony, when
it contains inherent improbabilities or
contradictions, which alone or in connec-
tion with other circumstances in evidence
furnish a reasonable ground for concluding
the testimony not to be true.
You have heard all of the testimony on
this branch of the case in support of the
respective claims. There is but little if any
controversy in relation to the procuring
of the insurance on Miss Ging's life, and
the assignment of the policies to the de-
fendant, or the manner of the making of
the loan on the 24th of November, except
as to the amount loaned, and the good
faith of the transaction. After fully conside
ering all the facts in connection with it,
you are to determine from it and the cir-
cumstances connected with it, whether the
defendant had any motive in taking the
life of Catherine Ging.
As I have alreadiv stated to you, Blixt be-
ing an accomplice in the crime, if his testi-
mony is true, the defendant cannot be con-
victed on his uncorroborated evidence.
The state claims that his evidence has
not only been corroborated by the testi-
mony of Adry Hayward, in which he testi-
fies that on the 30th day of November the
defendant told him in substance that he
was going to kill her, and that Blixt was
the man to do the job, that the testimony
of Adry is substantially admitted to be
true from the fact that he testified that he
told it to Elder Stewart on the same day,
and that the defense has not called Stew-
art to deny it. The state further claims
that the testimony of Blixt has been cor-
roborated by many other circumstances
which are founded on facts, among which
was the motive he had for killing her, to
which we have already referred; their so-







494 OFFICIAL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT:
cial and business relations; her love and
implicit confidence in him; the relations he
sustained to Blixt; the amount of time he
had spent with him both day and night
for some time before the date of the mur-
der; his conduct immediately following the
loan, claiming to be suspicious about it,
claiming that he was fearful that she was
going to do him up, and he would lose his
money; that he was bound to secure it
either by fair or foul means; his conduct
on the night of the murder both before
and after, and his conduct and sayings in
relation to his business matters with her,
especially the matter of the loan and insur-
ance up to the time of his arrest; his be-
ing seen in the carriage with Miss Ging
near the place where Blixt said he met
him and took the carriage with her at his
request, and near
WHERE HE WAS SEEN RUNNING:
up Hennepin avenue towards the city about
the same time; that the discrepancy in the
testimony of Blixt on the trial, and his
statements made to the mayor soon after
he was arrested, are not material, and do
not contradict any important fact testified
to by him showing that Catherine Ging
came to her death by his act, and by the
procurement of the defendant. And that
he has fully explained in his testimony on
the trial that the discrepancies resulted
from his disordered mental and physical
condition, he was at that time unable to
remember all the particulars of the trans-
acticºn which on reflection have come to
him since, That he admits that the first
statement to the mayor was not true in so
far as he stated that the defendant did the
shooting, and he took care of the body,
that all of these facts and circumstances
taken together in the absence of any re-
liable testimony that Miss Ging was on
intimate terms with any other man, or
that Blixt had any other associate in
crime except the defendant, or had any
motive in charging his friend who seems to
have been a friend to him up to the very
night of the murder with the crime, are
all facts creating circumstances corrobor-
ating the testimony of Blixt, and to such
an extent that his story of the commission
of the crime and of the originator of it, is
entitled to credit, and your belief, and
is sufficient in connection with all the other
evidence and circumstances to establish
the guilt of the defendant beyond reason-
able doubt.
On the other hand it is claimed by the
defense that Blixt is a self-confessed mur-
derer, hoping for mercy if he succeeds in
convicting the defndant; that his testimony
is fabricated for the occasion, and stands
before you as a self-contradicted and per-
jured witness, and not entitled to credit.
It is also claimed by the defense that
the testimony of Blixt is not true in re-
gard to his meeting the defendant on Ken-
wood boulevard, where he got into the car-
riage with Miss Ging, and all of his tes-
timony in regard to what took place there,
and that the defendant was not there,
and that he did not have time to go there
after he left the Ozark and the time that
he arrived at Bartleson's, from which
place he went to the theater.
The state claims that, taking the testi-
mony of the defendant and his witnesses,
as to the time he was last seen
at the Ozark, to be true, ne
had plenty of time to make this
journey, as testified to by Blixt, and then
get to the theater at the time that he did,
which was after the performance *gan;
that, from his own testimony, he had t -
lme
to sell, and was within a short distance
of the place before he went to Mr Bartle-
son's; that he was seen at and near the
place in the carriage with Miss Ging, by
Mr. Wilson, and running from near the
place by Jenks about the same time.
You are to determine from the evidence
which claim is correct; and, in so doing,
you can take into consideration your
EXPERIENC tº AND OBSERVATION
in connection with all matters to which
they may apply, and as to the accuracy
with which people judge of time when
they have no time-piece at hand from
which they can fix their memory.
In determining the credibility of the wit-
nesses who have testified in this case,
you can take into consideration their ap-
pearance on the stand: the manner in
which they give their testimony; the in-
terest they may have in the result of the
suit; the reasonableness of their state-
ments, and the probability of the truthful-
ness of the same. You have a right to give
such credit and weight to the testimony
of a witness as, in your judgment, from
all the circumstances, it is entitled to.
If you are of the opinion that any witness
has wilfully and corruptly testified to what
is false, you are at liberty to reject all of
his testimony that is not corroborated by
other evidence.
The evidence of an accomplice should be
received by the jury with great care and
caution, but is evidence which you are au-
thorized to receive and give it such weight
as in your judgment it is entitled to. It
may or may not be convincing, depending
on circumstances and the amount of cor-
roboration. If you find a witness has an ill
feeling towards the defendant, you can take
that circumstance in consideration in esti-
mating the credibility of his testimony. If
you find that any of the witnesses testified
in this case were induced to testify by any
promise of immunity from punishment, or
any hope held out to them, you can take
that fact into consideration in determining
the weight which ought to be given their
testimony. The law allows the defendant
to testify in his own behalf, and you should
consider his testimony with all the other
testimony in the case, and give it such
weight as in your judgment it demands;
considering his interest in the result of the
case, and applying the same tests of credi-
bility which you apply to other witnesses.
When the verbal admissions or declara-
tions of the defendant are in evidence, the
whole must be taken together and by you
fairly considered.
Where the evidence shows that a witness
has told a different story out of court re-
lating to any material matter than that tes-
tified to by him on the trial, it is your
province to determine to what extent his
testimony may be impeached or impaired
thereby.
You are the sole judges of the facts and
of the weight to be given to the testimony
of each witness, and you are to determine
from all the testimony in the case when ap-
plied to the law as the court has given it
to you, the guilt or innocence of the de-
fendant.
This case, although it is a charge of
murder in the first degree, is to be tried
and determined by you on the same prin-
ciples of law as any other criminal case,
no matter how slight its importance.
You have nothing to do with the pun-





OF THE HAY war D MURDER TRIAL.
ishment and have no right to consider it in
making up your verdict. The law fixes the
punishment. You have only one duty to
perform, and that is to determine from
the evidence before you when applied to
the law as the court has given it to you,
whether it is sufficient to satisfy your
minds beyond a reasonable doubt, as I
have defined it to you, of the defendant’s
guilt of the crime as charged in the first
count of this indictment.
You are not to consider any statements
made by the attorneys on either side out-
side of the testimony, or be influenced by
any sympathy or prejudice or opinions or
presumptions not founded upon the evi-
dence in arriving at your verdict. If the
evidence satisfies your mind, and each of
your minds beyond a reasonable doubt, of
the defendant’s guilt, it will be your duty
under your oaths to bring in a verdict of
guilty in the manner and form as stated
by the first count in this indictment. But
if from all the evidence fairly examined,
weighed and considered, you have a rea-
sonable doubt of the defendant's guilt, you
will return a verdict of not guilty.
You will take the case now, gentlemen,
and determine it upon the evidence and
the law as the court has given it to you,
and render such a verdict as in your
judgment the law and testimony demands.
OFFICIAL STORY OF THE END OF
THE HAYWARD - i.e., AL.
Friday. Afternoon, March 8.
The Court–Call the jury.
The clerk here called the names of the
jurors.
The Clerk–Gentlemen of the jury, have
you agreed upon a verdict?
Juror McNeil–We have your honor.
The Clerk—Gentlemen, listen to the read-
ing of your verdict, as it shall be recorded:
“State of Minnesota vs. Harry T. Hay-
ward, defendant. Verdict: We, the jury
find the defendant, Harry T. Hayward,
guilty of the crime of murder in the first
degree, as charged in the first count of the
indictment in this action. (Signed),
“NEIL McNEIL, Foreman.”
The Clerk—Gentlemen, is that your ver-
dict? -
The Jury. It is.
The Clerk. So say you all?
The Jury. It is.
Mr. Smith. If the court please, we ask
that the jury may be polled.
The Court. Let the names be called and
let them answer whether or not this is
their verdict. -
(The jury was then polled and each and
all of them answered in the affirmative.)
The Court. Gentlemen of the jury, you
please accept the thanks of the court for
the attention that you have given for so
long a time to the trial of this case, to
the testimony, arguments of the attorneys
and instructions of the court. I know that
you have all been, in a great measure, in-
convenienced, and some of you have been
ill, to that extent that you have demanded
and received the sympathy of the court.
Believing that you have rendered a con-
scious verdict, I will now say that you
can be discharged from the further con-
sideration of this case and from the further
attendance of this court.
Mr. Hall. If your honor please in accord-
ance to the desires of my chief and that
the business of this court may not be de-
layed, I desire now, in accordance with
the verdict that has been rendered, tomove
for the sentence of this defendant.
Mr. Smith. If the court please, I desire,
in case of so serious character as this,
to ask for a stay of a few days–
The Court. Well, that is unneccesary;
because in a case of this kind, all the
preparations for appeal can be made after
the sentence is given.
Mr. Smith. Well, we would like very
much to have a stay for a short time. Of
course the evidence is all before us, but we
want time to prepare the necessary papers
for a new trial, and whatever time will be
necessary for us to take in the protection
of the rights of the defendant. We would
like a few days.
The Court. I will defer sentence until
Monday morning, and if at that time it is
deemed expedient to grant any further time
I will do so.
Mr. Smith. Perhaps it is proper for me
to state at this time that Mr. Erwin, the
chief counsel for the defendant, has been
obliged to go to St. Paul and go to bed, and
I would like proceedings stayed until time
for him to recover.
The Court. Well, adjourn court until 10
o'clock next Monday morning, and then we
will decide what further steps will be taken.
MORNING SESSION, MARCH 11.
Sentence of the Court.
The Court–Has the defendant anything to
say why the sentence of the court should
not be pronounced 2
Mr. Erwin–Your honor, if it is the de-
sire of the state to move for sentence at
this time, we desire to interpose a motion
in arrest of judgment. And the defendant,
by his counsel, now-moves the court to air-
rest the judgment in this case upon the
ground that the indictment does not charge
the crime of murder in the first degree,
and does not charge the crime of murder in
any degree. That is the motion and we
ask that it be made of record.
There is no statute in this state, your
honor, that I know of, upon the subject of
arrest in judgment, and the rule, in the
absence of any statute upon that subject,
is, that an arrest of judgment must be
made, or rather a motion for an arrest of
judgment must be made before sentence is
passed and is confirmed to the facts arising
in the indictment. That motion I now sub-
mit to your honor without argument.
The Court—Very well.
Mr. Erwin–Again, before sentence is
passed upon the defendant, the defendant
in person and by his counsel gives notice
to the court and to the county attorney
that, at a time which the court may ſix,
giving us reasonable time to prepare the
motion and the necessary papers in support
thereof, that the defendant, by his counsel,
will move the court to grant a new trial
in this case, alleging each and every one of
the statutary grounds which are permitted
in the statute for a new trial, and alleging
also all of the errors arising from the
court’s overruling the objections to the
admission of testimony made by defend-
ant's counsel. And in relation to the errors
of the court made in admitting testimony
duly objected to by defendant's counsel.
And upon the further ground that this
trial has not been fair on account of the
public terror which has overshadowed the
court.
The Court—Public terror has not over-
shadowed the court.
-











496 OFFICIAL STENOG RAPHIC REPORT
Mr. Erwin–Well, I did not mean your
honor individually—I mean the forum; I
have no intention of speaking to your hon-
or individually, but I meant the whole for-
um, all of us here. And this motion will
require a number of affidavits, your honor,
and I would like to state to the court that
immediately upon the rendering of a ver-
dict in this case, all the counsel on both
sides, I think, found themselves worn out
and we have, on the part of the defendant,
been unable to prepare or attempt to pre-
pare, any motion for a new trial. Now, the
statute, your honor, provides—
The Court—You have six months.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir, the statute provides
we have six months, but the hearing of the
case must be at some time during the gen-
eral term, or at some special term during
the term. -
The Court—That is, for a hearing of the
motion for a new trial?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, sir; and I want to agree
upon a time when that question can be
presented. There are some 2,500 pages of
testimony and it will take some time to
prepare a bill of exceptions—some time for
clerical work.
The Court—Well, I don't know how much
longer this term will last—probably two or
three weeks longer. I suppose we could
keep it going longer.
Mr. Erwin–Could we not arrange that
the motion for a new trial be presented to
the court on the third Saturday from and
after this date, that is, your special term
day?
Mr. Hall–Won’t that go into April some
time?
The Court—No; we cannot go into April,
because we have another term then.
Mr. Erwin–Well, if we can set a time
now, and it can be continued if it is not
entirely satisfactory to counsel on both sides.
The Court—Well, the 23d of March.
Mr. Erwin–Will that be three weeks?
The Court. The last Saturday of the
month is the 30th.
Mr. Erwin–Yes, your honor.
The Court—Will that be satisfactory?
Mr. Erwin–Yes, your honor, that will be
satisfactory. Now, we will agree to serve
at least five days before that time upon
the county attorney’s office copies of our
moving papers.
The Court—Well, it ought to be settled
before that time. If you are going to make
a motion for a new trial the case ought to
be settled a week before that time, or at
least a few days.
Mr. Erwin–There is this reason that it
should be settled, that the motion for a
new trial and the assignment of the errors
should all be referred, of course, at the
time of settling the case; therefore, the
time for settling the case ought to be as
late as the 30th, I think.
The Court—Well, it will have to be dis-
posed of then, because the term will have
to be adjourned at that time. In a case
of this importance, I do not like to be
confined to one day in settling it.
Mr. Erwin–Well, suppose we make it the
25th 2
The Court—Well, that will do. That is,
you can serve a copy of your case on the
county attorney, and then I can have a
few days to consider it. Supposing you
deliver a copy of your proposed case to
the county attorney on the 23d 7
Mr. Erwin Can we have until Monday.
if it is necessary; we can have a Sabbath?
The Court—Yes.
Mr. Erwin–That will make it the 25th 2
The Court—Yes, the 25th.
Mr. Hall–We ought to have the Sabbath
to work ourselves.
The Court—I think you had better make
it the 23d and deliver it to nine on or be-
fore the 28th, and that will give me one
day to examine it, that will probably be
sufficient. Let that order be made then.
Mr. Erwin–Then, the order will be that
we shall serve upon the state our proposed
bill of exceptions and motion for a new
trial on or before the 23d of March, and
that the state serve upon us their bill of
exceptions, or proposed amendments, on or
before the 28th.
The Court–On or before the 28th, and it
will have to be delivered to the court on
the same day; that will give me one day to
examine it, and that will be sufficient.
The Court–Very well, let that be so re-
corded. Have you anything to say now,
Mr. Hayward, why the sentence of the
court shall not be pronounced at this time?
Mr. Hayward–Nothing, sir, except I am
innocent, in spite of the 12 jurors' decision.
The Court–Well, it is the most painful
duty that has ever devolved upon me to
pronounce the sentence of the law upon
you at this time. You have had in my
judgment a fair trial; you have been as-
sisted by able counsel, who has presented
your case with great ability to the jury.
The court has been careful to keep the
jury where they could not be contaminated,
either by public sentiment or in any other
Way.
The court instructed the jury when he
ordered that they be confined that they
should not discuss in any way the question
of your guilt or innocence or the testi-
mºny, among themselves until they went
into their jury room after the charge of
the court to consider the case. I am confi-
dent from the information I have that they
obeyed the orders of the court. They were
12 men carefully selected and men of integ-
rity and honesty—they have by their ver-
dict, if I am correctly informed, each one
said from his own mind without influences
from the others—each juror has said that
you are guilty. In the judgment of the
Court, it is a conscientious verdict of the
Jury.
I am not favorable to the punishment
that is awarded for capital offenses, but, as
I told the jury in my charge, I am not re-
sponsible for it, neither are they; we are to
execute the law and that is our duty, what-
ever, our opinions may be in reference to
it. And as I have said before, I wish I
could avoid the duty which now devolves
upon me—that of pronouncing sentence up-
on you—but which I now proceed to do.
“It is considered and adjudged that you,
Harry T. Hayward, as punishment for the
crime of murder in the first degree, of
which you have been convicted, be taken
from here hence to the common jail of the
county of Hennepin and there be confined.
And that thereafter, after the elapse of
three calendar months from this day, and
at a time to be fixed by the governor of
the state of Minnesota, and designated by
his warrant, you be taken to the place of
execution and there be hanged by the neck
until you are dead.” -







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