f, Full and Eafie 
 
 SATISFACTION 
 
 WHICH IS THE 
 
 TRUE 
 
 AND 
 
 Safe Religion* 
 
 Between 
 
 In a Conference 
 
 D. ADOUBTER, 
 P. A PAP 1ST, and 
 R.' A REFORMED CA- 
 THOLICK CHRISTIAN. 
 
 In Four Parts: 
 
 t. The true fating of our Difference , and opening what each 
 Religion is- 
 
 II. The true eafie and full Justification of the Reformed or 
 Proteftant Religion. 
 
 III. The Protectants Reafons and Charges againfl Popery, 
 enumerated. 
 
 I V. The firft Charge, viz. Aeiainft Tranfubftantiation made good : 
 In which Popery" is proved to be the SHAME OF HUMANE 
 NATURE , notorioudy contrary to SENSE , REASON , 
 SCRIPTURE and TRADITION, or the Judgement of the 
 Antient and the Prefent Church ; devifed by Satan to expole 
 Chriftianity to the Scorn of Infidels. 
 
 By Richard "Baxter. 
 
 London,Vrmted, for Nev.Smwow y 2X the Primes 
 Arms in Su Pauls Church- yard, 1674, 
 
t 
 
 L.. 
 
"To his (jirace the Vu^eofl^^ 
 derdail Hti Mijefttes Commip 
 jioner > and ^Principal Secreta* 
 ry for the Kingdom of Scot- 
 land, &c* 
 
 May it pleafe Your Grace, 
 
 HOnour and Gratitude are aflfe- 
 &ioiis much inclined to fpeak 
 out, and to publifh theriifelves 
 in the predication of their objects : And 
 feeing the Literate Tribe have long 
 ufed fo much boldnefs with Great 
 Names, as to prefix them by Dedicati- 
 ons to their Writings, I take that ad- 
 vantage to tell the world how grcatly 
 Your favour hath long firice obliged me, 
 
 Ai aixd 
 
and (till continueth fo to do. And 
 while I can fay } that I know of no No- 
 bleman living who hath read more of my 
 Writings than Yoo have done , all that 
 know the End of Writing, will confent, 
 that there is no Noble Name which! 
 fliould prefer. And as I long ago read 
 in the Learned Spanhemius's Dedication 
 of his VubiaEvangelica p. 3. to You (well ■ 
 joyned with the famous Ufrer ) the 
 predication of Your Judicium Jupra <zta- 
 tern maturum y rerum omnium cognitione fab* 
 attum peElus , and that as attefted by 
 the llluflrious Duke of %oham , the Mofi 
 Sagacious ^Arbiter of ingenies . And years 
 and experience have been long adding 
 to Your knowledge : Beingnotaftran- 
 ger to the Truth of this my felf, I have 
 great rcafon to be Ambitious to Jland 
 right in Your ejieem: (For who reverenceth 
 the Judgement of ignorant Readers? 
 Or doth not reverence the Judgement 
 of the Wife ? ) And therefore to give 
 You an account of mj felf and of this 
 writing > Since 
 
Since I overgrew that Religion whicl 
 is taken up moft on humane trujl^ by in- 
 creasing knowledge I increafed mens 
 difpleaiure ; and my judgement not 
 falling juft into the mold of any Se£l 
 among Church*diViders y there is fcarce any 
 Seci which doth not, according to their 
 various interejls , fignifie their difplea- 
 fure. Some only by Magijlerial Qenjures^ 
 more credibly acquainting the world, what 
 they are tbemfebes , than what 1 am r or 
 what is my judgement. But from others 
 I take a meer (lander for Qemency , and 
 as Philojlratus faith , de Ditto (phaVormi ) 
 Bt dum Socratts cicutam non bibam , Area 
 priyari Jlatua non Udit. Simple Chrijl'uiriu 
 ty is my %eligton : I determine to know 
 nothing but (Jhrifl Crucified ( and Glori* 
 fied. ) And I am paft all doubt , that 
 till jimple Chrijliamty become the terms of 
 Church Ainity and Qoncord i the Church will 
 ntV:r fee Unity or Qoncord \ which ftiall 
 prove univerfal or durable. So certain am 1", 
 that the Wits of the Learned, much lefs 
 
 A 5^ of 
 
iof the (jmmunity of ^vulgar Chriftians, 
 will never arrive at the ftaturejof^ttco^, 
 in numerous and difficult joints : Nor the 
 marvellous diverfity 6f Educations, occafions, 
 temperatures and capacities , be ever united 
 in any thing but what is plain and Jim* 
 p!e. And as Certain am I , that the 
 llniyerfal (jonjcimce of trite believers will 
 never unite, in any thing which is not 
 evidently divine. And yet as certain am 
 !, that the forfaking of the determina- 
 tion of the Holy Ghoft and the Apoftles, 
 A&s 1 5. 2 8. and of r Pauls Veafion, Rom. 
 14. & 15. hath been the Engine of 
 Church-Vivifions and many calajnitous d'u 
 flraElions to this day : And that that 
 bkfjed Trince \yho muft have the honour 
 and comfort of beginning the true heal* 
 ing and Qonconl of the Churches, mud 
 pare off all their fuperfluities \ and leave 
 them at beft among their things indif* 
 ferent, and unite them on the terms of 
 
 fimpleChriJliamty. 
 
 ; And as to' fopery I have certainly 
 
 found, 
 
found,thatthe Crofs Interefts AndTafsions 
 of Difputers have made us (though re- 
 ally too diftant) to feem commonly 
 about many Qottrin&ls more diftant than 
 indeed we are : And that it had been 
 better with us, if fuch men as judici- 
 ous LudoV. le Blank, had had the dating 
 of our Controversies at the firft , that 
 differing words and methods might not 
 | have pafled with either fide for dam* 
 noble errors in the faith. I mean in the 
 points of foreknowledge , predeftination , 
 providence, predetermination^ concurfe, origi* 
 nal Jin , free-will , univerfal Redemption y 
 J'ufficient Grace , effectual Grace > the nature 
 ofrattbj Jujlification, Sancitfcation , Merit ^ 
 Good Works , Certainty of Jujlification J and 
 of Salvation, VerJeVerance, &c. For my 
 knowing this to be true, I am cenfured by 
 thofe on one extream y as too favourable 
 to the Papifts ( being indeed an Ene- 
 my to injury, calumny., uncharitable- 
 nels or cruelty to any in the world. ) 
 But I am much more difpleafing to the 
 A 4 Roman 
 
tRjman patty • Bccaufe I know, that One 
 wan is mturatly uncapable of being the 
 Monarch of all the world : That the IQng 
 of%sm (as the GeographiaNubienfis calls 
 him ) was never by Chrift made Kjng 
 of Kings and Lord of Lords : That he ne* 
 <ver wus y nor (an be a Paftor at the^i* 
 tipodes y and over all the Earth, or as far 
 as Vrake and Candijl? did Navigate : That 
 it'* a lorry Argument, [ Monarchy is the 
 bejl Government : Ergo, An unffrerjal Mo* 
 narchy is be ft : J That the Government 
 fetled in Nature and Scripture , is for 
 Princes to rule Churchmen and aU y by the 
 Sword , and the (Pajiqrs of all particular 
 Churches , to rule their Congregations by 
 the Churcb*I{eys ,, that is, by the Word, 
 ufing Synods for due concord and cone* 
 fyondency : And t/;w much will do better 
 than all the ftir that the Clergies Ambition 
 hath made in the world. 
 
 I know that the Tope ftandeth on no 
 better a foundation than the other four 
 Patriarchs : And that he was but the 
 
 chief 
 
chief Prelate or Patriarch in one Empire, as 
 the Archbifhop of Canterbury is in tin* 
 gland j And that the Greek Church never 
 took his Primacy in that one Empire to 
 be of ViYme (light : For if they had, 
 they had never Jet up the Patriarch of 
 Constantinople againjl him > who never 
 claimed h'u Primacy as jure ViVmo. Iknout 
 that the great Council of Qhalcedon de- 
 creed, Att. \6. Bin. 754. [" We fol- 
 " lowing alwayesthe definitions of the 
 " holy Fathers and the Canon , have 
 cc our felves alfo defined the fame 
 cc things, concerning the Priviledges of 
 i the lame Moft Holy Church of Con* 
 ic jtantmople^ TSleu> %ome ; For to the Seat 
 cC of Old %ome becaufe of the Empire of 
 <c that City, the Fathers confequently ga<vt 
 " the Priviledges : And the one hun- 
 " dred and fifty Bifliops moft beloved 
 cc of God, being moved with the fame 
 "intention, have given equal Privi- 
 " ledges to the Moft Holy Seat of New 
 i %ome : Reafonably Judging that the 
 
 -City 
 
''City adorned with the Empire and 
 " Senate, fhall enjoy equal Friviledges 
 l € with Old Regal <%ome. 1 
 
 1 know that their late Bifliop of 
 Qyalcedon faith ( againfl: Biflicp ffram* 
 hall, Surrey, pag. 69) CTb Hi itjufficetb, 
 that theHtijhop of Rome is St. Peters Sac* 
 cejfor • and this all Fathers tefiifie. {But 
 whether he he fo jureDivino vel humano 
 is no point of faith. Vid. (Bellarm. 1.2. de 
 <Pont. in. And Holdtn Jnalyf fid. 1. 1 . r.p. 
 p. \6i. Mult a funt qu<z traditione uniyerfa 
 firmiter innttuntur ( puta S. ( Petru)n fuijfe 
 ^omd ) qu& reVelata non junt - ideoque ab 
 articulorum fidei Catholic* numero exclu* 
 duntur. 
 
 I know that there never was fuch a 
 thing as a true Univerfal Council in the 
 world ( unlefs Chrift and his Apoftles 
 were fuch ) ; nor ever vmft> or will, or 
 can be. 
 
 I know that they were called Uniyer* 
 fal but as to one Empire : and that Empe^ 
 rours called them together P who had no- 
 thing 
 
thing to do without that Empire . and chat 
 (unleis accidentally any inconfidera- 
 ble number ) no Qhurches out of the Em* 
 pire were jummoned, or Jpit their (Bifhops 
 thither : Which needs no other proof 
 than the knowledge of the limits of the 
 tf{oman Empire, and the ISlotitU Epijcopa* 
 tuum y and the Names jubfcrihed to each 
 Council in <Binnius and the reft. 
 
 I know that long ago their %aynerw 
 laid ( Qrnt. Waldenf. Qatal. in Biblioth. <Pa* 
 trumTdm. 4. f .773.) £ The Churches of the 
 Armenians, and Ethiopians y and Indians y and 
 the reft which the Jpoftles converted y are not 
 under the Church of Rome. ] And that 
 Godignus and others make no doubt 
 but the Abaf sines had the faith from 
 the dayes of St. liatthew and the Eu- 
 nuch. 
 
 1 know that Theodoret. Hftor. SanEl. 
 <?atr. c. 1. faith., [James the fyfnop o/Ni- 
 fibis came to the Synod of Nice • for Ni- 
 fibis then obeyed the Roman Empire. 
 Nothing can be mere plain. 
 
 I know 
 
I know that Jacob, de Vitriaco ( and 
 others ) fay ( Hift. Orient, c. 77. ) that 
 Q the Qhurches of the Eajlerly parts of Afia 
 alone exceeded in number the Chrijlians ei* 
 ther of the Greek or Latin Churches ] ; And 
 that Brocbardus that lived at Jerufalem 
 faith, that C tbofe called Schifmaticks by us 
 are far better men than thoje of the Roman 
 Church. ] 
 
 And to perfwade the Kings of other 
 kingdoms y that the neceffary way of 
 ChurchAinion , is to unite all their Sub* 
 jetlXhurcbes under the Patriarchs of ano* 
 ther Empire, is no wifer than to tell all 
 the world that they muft be under the 
 %foop of Canterbury. 
 
 1 know that it was long ere Our antu 
 ent (Britains , and efpecially Your Scots, 
 Would fo much as eat with the ( I{pman 
 Clergy, ( as (Beda fheweth. ) 
 
 And 1 know that their Melcb. Canus 
 faiths ( hoc. Com. cap. 7. foL zoi.) \Jlhat 
 el not only the Greeks, but almojt all the rejl 
 cc of the %fro^s of the whole world , have 
 
 "fought 
 
"fought to dejlroy the priviledges of the 
 " Church of Rome ; And indeed they had 
 €i on their fide both the Arms of Emperours 
 le and the greater number of Churches : Jnd 
 <c yet they could never prevail to abrogate 
 ic the power of the One Tope of %ome. ] 
 Was this Tope then ( or the %oman 
 Church) UniverfaU Befides that, to 
 this day } they are but about the third or 
 fourth part of the Chriftian world. 
 
 And 1 know that General Councils are 
 their Tjligion : and what the General ap* 
 proved Council uLateranfublnnoc.^ hath 
 Decreed againjl Temporal Lords and their 
 'Dominions , and abfolVmg of their SubjeBs 
 from their Oaths ofFideltty: Befides what 
 Greg. 7. hath laid in his Concil. ^pm 9 
 of his power to take down and fet up 
 Emperours. 
 
 I he knowing of thefe things, maketh 
 me taken for their enemy. And their 
 Image of Worfjrrip in an unknown Tongue 7 
 with their BreadAVorflrip and multi- 
 tude of ludicrous deceitful toyes, are things 
 
 which 
 
which my foul can never be recon- 
 ciled to : Much lefs to that renuncia- 
 tion of humanity which hereafter I de- 
 tes5t, in the following Treatife. 
 
 And having given You this Account 
 of my felf , I add as to this Treatije^ 
 i. It grieved me to hear that/o many re* 
 fufed the (parliaments 'Declaration againft 
 Tranfuhfiantiatwn : And I delired to ftiew 
 them what it is. 
 
 j 2. Inftead of joy ning with thole who 
 talk much of the danger of Topery in the 
 Land ( to keep it out,) I thought it 
 better to pubhp? the %eafons which fatis* 
 fie me againfl it, and leave the luccels of 
 all to God. 
 
 3. And having occafion to re-print 
 the Firft Part or my Ksy for Qatholicks, 
 with Corrections, inftead of the TSlame be* 
 fore prefixed, ( of one whofe face I ne- 
 ver law , nor ever had a word from, 
 but ignorantly endeavoured to have 
 provoked him to do good) I thought 
 lour Name fitteft to be gratefully fubfti- 
 
 tuted r 
 
tuted, who were the firjl then that checked 
 my imprudent-temerity. 
 J Though I was not fo vain , as to ex- 
 pert of late in your multitude of great- 
 er bufinefs, that You fhould read over 
 my more tedious Writings, I defpair not 
 but You may find leifure in perufing 
 this , to fee that I have prefixed Your 
 Name to nothing , but what Senfe and 
 Q{eafon and Religion do avow. And fo 
 Craving Your Pardon for the boldnefs 
 and tedioufnefs of this Addrefs, I reft, 
 
 
 Xour Graces humble much 
 obliged Servant, 
 
 Richard Baxter. 
 
 Toy 
 

 . 
 
 , I 
 
 1 
 
 
ch oS % eft fl%<%0%(T: v * a% % {ft 3E {ft ro<fig: o£ % %cfc(r^h% 
 
 ?imiiit»tn turn 
 
 TO THE 
 
 READE R. 
 
 y | ^Htf Dialogue corned ho£ ft j/0#, 
 yrom dtf apprebenfion of any extra* 
 
 J&^ ordinary excellency of it y as if it 
 did much more than is already done: but as 
 extorted by mens necefsity . i. Becaufe Jo 
 many ignorantly turn ( Papifts of late - 2, And 
 fome are pleajed to Say (I dare not fay, 
 To Think ) that it is long of men in my 
 condition . 3. And it is the Art of the ^apifis 
 ( which our ajanity encourageth ) to feek to 
 bring the old "Books into oblivion ( which are 
 unanjwerabU ) • and to call ftdl for new. 
 
 The intended life of tins is y 1.T0 tell 
 thoje that wiU dtfpute with a Tapifty on what 
 terms and in what order to proceed ? left they 
 be cheated into afnare. 
 
 {a) 2*To 
 
2. To teach the Ignorant Doubters truly to 
 under ftmdy wherein the difference between 
 us and the Vapijls doth indeed confift ; that 
 the talk of Sectaries Calling that whuh dif- 
 pleafeth them , Popery y nor the jcandal of 
 our red or feeming divijions , may not de* 
 hide them , nor Tapifts f>u%gle them by put- 
 ting them to prove every word in our thirty 
 nine Articles or other Writings. 
 
 3. To %efohe all that will be ^efotved, 
 by Senfes,Reafon,Scripture, or the Judge- 
 ment andTradition of the Qwrch* 
 
 Of the multitude of %eafons againjl To; 
 pery enumerated, I have here made good but 
 one y by a f pedal dijputation • becatif el would 
 not make the ( Book too big. The rcjl Ifhall 
 eajtly prove in another Volume , if greater 
 work and fiortnefs of life do not hinder it - 
 ( rvhtch 1 fully expeH.) Jndlefl lhaVe no 
 more opportunity to an fiver their Charges 
 agunfl us on the other fide 7 1 have reprinted 
 and added ( Corrected ) the frjl part of my 
 Key for Catholicks , where it is long ago 
 done j and never anjwered. There is extant 
 
 one 
 
one Piece of theirs againfl me , unanfwered y 
 called, Mr. Johnfon'* Rejoynder about the 
 Vifibility of the Church : which 1 feru 
 oufly prof ef s 1 have left unan fiver ed, a,s uu 
 terly unworthy of my precious 1 imejull I have no 
 greater matter to do, which 1 hope will never 
 be. And he that will well Jludy his opening 
 of the terms in the latter end, will jee to how 
 pitiful a cafe thty are reduced, I conclude 
 with thisjolemn Vrofefsion ■ That 1 am fa* 
 tisfied of the truth of what 1 write, andmufi 
 .dye ere long in the faith which I here profefs, 
 and lay my hopes of endUfi happine/s on no 
 other way : And that I would joyfully receive 
 any Saving Truth, from Papifls or any other, 
 who will bring it me, with Juch evidence as 
 may make it indeed my own. The Lord 
 Unite us by Truth , Love and Humility. 
 Amen. 
 
 Septemb. i. 
 
 Richard Baxter, 
 

 I 
 
 I 
 
 
 
 . 
 
 .] 
 
THE 
 
 CONTENTS. 
 
 PART L 
 
 Hat is the Proteftant s Religion , and what the 
 Papifts? pag. I. 
 
 Chap. i. The occaflon of the Conference : w™ an 
 humbling confideration to ftaggerers. ibid. 
 
 Chap. 2. The Conditions of the Conference. p. 6. 
 
 Chap. 3. What is the Religion of the Proteftant s. Of 
 the name Proteftant : The Auguftane and other Con- 
 feffions : The thirty nine Articles : The EJfentials of 
 Chriftianity to be diftingnijhed from the Integrals 
 and Accidentals, p. 9« 
 
 Chap. 4. What is the Papifts Religion : out of Veron, 
 Davenport, &c. p. 25 . 
 
 PART II. 
 
 harteen Principles in which thePapifts and P rot eft ants 
 feem agreed ; by which the Proteftant Religion is by 
 the Papifts confejfed and maintained to be all true* 
 
 p. 40. 
 (a 3; PART 
 
The Contents. 
 
 P A R T III. 
 
 Twenty five Charges againft Popery enumerated, to he all 
 in order proved ; as Reasons why no one that hath 
 Religion, or Senfe and Reason, fliould turn Papift. 
 
 p. 61. 
 
 PART IV. 
 
 The firft Charge made good , viz. again ft Tranfub- 
 ftantiation : In which Popery is fully proved to be 
 the jhame of Humane Nature j contrary to SENSE, 
 REASON, SCRIPTURE and TRADITION i or 
 the Judgement of the ant tent and the prefent Church ; 
 devifed by Satan to expofe firijhamty to the Scorn 
 of Infidels. P*75' 
 
 Chap. i. The firft Reafon to prove that there is Bread 
 after the $nfecration 9 from the certainty o.f the In- 
 tellects Perception by the means of fenfe. ibid. 
 
 Twenty Reafons again ft the denying of common fenfe s. 
 
 P-77- 
 
 Chap. 2, The Papift s Anfwcrs to, all this confuted. 
 
 p. 88. 
 
 Chap. 3. The fecond Argument again ft Tranfubftanti- 
 ittion from the contradictions of it. p. 96. 
 
 Chap. 4. The third Argument from the certain falfljood 
 of their multitudes of feigned Miracles inTranfub- 
 ftantiation* Thirty one Miracles in it enumerated^ 
 with Twenty aggravations of thofe Miracles, p. 99- 
 
 Chap. 5. The Minor proved, viz. That the fe Miracles 
 are falfe or feigned, p, JIO. 
 
 Chap, 
 
The Contents. 
 
 Chap. 6, Arg. 4. Tranfubftantiation contrary to the 
 exprefs Word of God. p. 117. 
 
 Chap. 7. Arg. 5. All thefe Miracles are proe fiefs : yea t 
 the Scripture abundantly diretleth us otherwife to ex- 
 pound, This is my Body. p. 123. 
 
 Chap . 8. Arg. 6. Tranfubftantiation nullifieth the Sa- 
 crament, p. 128. 
 
 Chap. 9. The Novelty of Tr an fab ft ant i at ion, as con- 
 trary to the faith of the antient foriftians : And the 
 Angularity, contrary to the Judgement andTradition 
 of mo ft of the Chriftian world. p. 132. 
 
 Chap. 1 o. The fecond part of the Controverfte : That 
 it is not Chrifts very ftejh and bleed into which the 
 Bread and Wine is turned. p. 146. 
 
 Chap* 1 1 . The Conclufton : The Scandal of our diffe- 
 rence removed. Whether the falfoood of one Article 
 prove the Papifts foundation falfe ? Whether it do 
 fo by the Prot eft ants ? Whether Papifts have any more 
 Infallibility than ethers? The necefftty of difcerning 
 the Effentials of Chriftianity. The diftintlion of Ex- 
 plicite and Implicite faith confidered* How come fo 
 many Princes y Nobles , Learned men, and whole Nati- 
 ons to be Papifts ? All Chriftians be fides Papifts,* are 
 of one Church, though of many opinions. How come 
 fo many among us at home of late inclinable to Po- 
 pery ? What hope of Concordwith the Papifts ? How 
 to help them off their Councils ? Snares in the point 
 of Tranfubftantiation. Of their denying the Cup to 
 the Laity* p. 152. 
 
 ERRATA. 
 
Reader^ 
 
 IHope the Printers Errata are not many ? and 
 I am difcouraged from gathering them ^ be- 
 caufe I fee men had rather err thcmfelvcs , and 
 calumniate the Author , than take notice of 
 them : So hath Mr. Danvcrs done by me in a 
 Book againft Infant Baptijm , where as an In- 
 troduction to abundance of miftakes in Hifto- 
 ry, he abufeth his Reader by feveral fcraps of a 
 Book of mine, fo curtailed as to be inefficient 
 to fignifie the fenfe- And among them feigneth 
 me tD write (chr. D/reff.p. 3. j^£. 885. /. 13. 
 £ to Inftitute Sacraments ] as that which man may 
 do, inftcad of [_ Not to Inftitute Sacrament s~\ ; 
 and fo maketh his credulous flock to believe that 
 I aflert that very thing which I write againft : 
 Though the place was markt with a Star in the 
 Errata^ and the Reader de fired fpecially to Cor- 
 rect it. But fuch dealing is now grown fo com- 
 mon with fuch men, that we muft bear it as the 
 crfed: of their difeafe. 
 
PART. f. 
 
 What is the Troteflants <l{eligion, and what the 
 Tapifts. 
 
 CHAP. L 
 
 The occafionof the Conference. ^ 
 
 T R, I am come to crave your help in a 
 • matter of great importance to me : I 
 was bred a Proteftant • but the Dif~ 
 courfes of fome Roman Catholicks, 
 have brought me into great doubts, 
 whether I have not been all this while: 
 deceived : And though I cannot difpute the cafe my felf 
 with you, Idefire you to difpute it in my hearing with 
 a Catholick Prieft whom I fhali bring to you. 
 
 R. With all my heart : But let me firft ask you a few 
 Queftions. 
 
 Que ft. i. Did you ever underfland what the Prote- 
 flants Religion is ? 
 
 D. I take it to be the 39 Articles, Liturgieand Go- 
 vernment of the Church of England* 
 
 K. No wonder if you be eafily drawn to doubt of 
 that Religion which you no better underfland. Can 
 you hold it, and not know what it is ? 
 
 Qncfl. 2. Do you know what it is to be a Chriftian ? 
 D. It is to believe in Chrift, and to Love and obey 
 Him. Cur Bap.ifm is our Chriftening. 
 
 R. Very true :' And in your Baptifm you are Dedi- 
 cated and Vowed to God the Father, Son, and Holy 
 
 B Gbott 
 
CM 
 
 Ghoft, renouncing the Lulls of the Flefh, the World 
 and the Devil. 
 
 Que ft. 3 . And have you been a true Chriftian, and 
 lived according to this Vow ? Have you obeyed God 
 more than the defires of your flefh ? Have you prefer- 
 red the Kingdom of Heaven before all the pleafures, ho- 
 nours and riches of this world ? Have you fincerely fub- 
 mitted to the healing faving Do&rine, Law and ex- 
 ample of Chrift, and to the fan&ifying motions of his 
 Holy Spirit ? Ana have you lived foberly, righteoufly, 
 and Godlily in the world, and made it your care and bu- 
 finefsto deny your felf, andmortifTe all flefhly inordinate 
 defires, as it is the care of fenfual men to gratifie them ? 
 D. I have had my faults as all men have -, but I hope 
 none can fay but I have lived honeftly towards all • Affifif 
 I have been faulty in drinking, fports or gaming, it hath 
 been to no ones injury but my own. 
 
 R. I ask you not whether you are a/inner •, For fo are 
 
 all men. But whether you 
 
 Vohnf. Nov. Retr. k 426. Protr- are a trH i y p en i tem Convert - 
 
 itants formally fuch, have not , r J , ? , 
 
 enough to be brought to the on- ed jimier j and whether yet 
 
 feigned Love o: God above all you are f m t0 y 0ur £ apt if 
 
 thills, and fpecial Love to his J ■> - J 
 
 fcrvants, :>ni unfeimcd willing- malvoxv and Covenant f Can 
 
 hat VS* kn'^cTr Y our Confcience fay, that you 
 
 feeling thn . ju love God o<* h's Love^and Truft and obey God y 
 
 fervants, or willingH.fi to obey, and your Re deemer, before all 
 
 the world - 7 and that you love 
 not Pleafure, Riches and Honour, more than God and 
 Holinefs and Heaven ? and that it is more of the care and 
 buiincfs of your life, to Know and Love and ferve God 
 better, and to make lure of your falvation, than to pleafe 
 ywft Bcffi, or pro cr in N world ? I .. a word > 9 Do you 
 tear ily and in vour ra&ice, take God for your God, 
 |ey< for your Ail, an . :mlt, for your Teacher, King 
 land Saviour, and the Holy Ghoft for your Sandifier, 
 
 turning 
 
(3) 
 
 turning in heart and life, from the Devil, the world, and 
 the (infill pleafures of the flefh ? This is the queflion 
 which I defire you to anfwer. 
 
 But I will prevent your anfwer left you miftake my 
 purpofe, and think I make my felf your ConfefTour, and 
 I will tell you why I ask the queflion. 
 
 Either you have thus Kept your Baptifmal Fory, by a 
 Godly life, or elfe you have broken it by worldlinef s and 
 fenfuality, &c. If you have kept it, and are a truly 
 Godly perfon, you have refolved your own doubt, and 
 abfolutely confuted Popery already. For no honeft 
 man and true Chrifttan can poilibly turn Papift without 
 grofs contradiction. 
 D. How prove you that. 
 
 R. Mofteafily: I pray you do but mark : i»Itis 
 their principal Doctrine that the Pope is the Head of the 
 Univerfal Church on earth 5 and that the Church fub- 
 jefted to him, is the Univerfal Church -, and that out of 
 that Church there is no falvation ; and that no one is a 
 true member of Chrift and his Church, who is not a 
 fubjeftof the Pope. 
 
 2. And they all confefs that every one fhall be faved 
 that is a true Chriftian, and keepeth his Baptifmal Cove- 
 nant, and that Loveth God above all. So that they muft 
 needs hold that none in the world but Papifls, do truly 
 Love God,& keep that Covenant,and are true Chriflians. 
 Now if you can know that you have the true Love of 
 God, and are true to your Baptifm, you muft needs con- 
 fefs that Popery is falfe, which faith that none Love 
 God above all but Papifts. 
 
 D. But what if I have not Loved God, and obeyed 
 him, above my flefh ? 
 
 R. I'le tell you what followeth. i. It is no wonder 
 if you forfakethe Proteftants Religion, who never truly 
 entertained it. If your Heart and hifc were not de- 
 
 B 2 Wtetl 
 
U) 
 
 voted unf eigne dly to Qod, you were no true Christian, 
 nor indeed had any true Religion at all : And he that 
 hatli no Religion, turneth from none which he truly had. 
 If you were never ztrne Chrifttan, you were never a 
 true Proteflant : And then what wonder if you turn 
 Papift ? For you have no experimental Knowledge of 
 that Religion which you feem to forfake. 
 
 2. And how could you exped better, but that God 
 fhould penally forfake you, and give you over to believe 
 deceits, if you have dealt fo falfly and deceitfully with 
 him, as to live to the world and flefh which you renoun- 
 ced, and negled that God and Savtour and fandifier to 
 whom you were fo folemnly devoted ? And if you have 
 been fo treacherous and unwife, as to prefer a bruitifh 
 tranfitory plcafure, before Gods Love and the Joyes of 
 Heaven ? 
 
 3. And what honour is it to the Church of Rome y 
 that none but Infidels and falfe-hearted hypocrites, and 
 perfidious breakers of their Covenant with God, did 
 ever turn to them > If you turn Papift, you confefs that 
 you were a wicked hypocrite before. 
 
 4. But the chief thing which I would tell you is, 
 that turn up and down as oft as you will, to this Church 
 or that Church, to this fide or that fide, you will never 
 be faved, unlefs you become a holy y ferious, mortified 
 Chriflian : As long as you love pleafures, wealth and ho- 
 nour more than God and Holinef* and Heaven, youfhall 
 never be faved, whether you be Papift, or a profefTed 
 Proteftant. It would make the heart of a Chriftian ake, 
 to fee fo many thoufands cheated by the Devil, to take 
 «his opinion or that opinion, called the true faith, and 
 this fide or that fide, called the true Church, to be to 
 'them inftead of a holy heavenly heart and life* And 
 how many thowfands, efpecially Papifts, that are truly 
 t)f no RtHoiotiy do difpute, and. plot and difquiet the 
 
 world, 
 
(5) 
 
 world, as/«?r Religion, To hear a prophane man fwear 
 that his Religion is right • or that man. to think to be 
 faved for being of the true Church and faith, whofe 
 heart was never fet on Heaven, but liveth in drunken- 
 nefs, lying, idlenefs, fornication, and thinketh that the 
 Priefts abfolution fets all right again. Without true 
 Holinefs no man fliall be faved, what Church foever he 
 joynwith > 9 and with it no man (hall be damned. For 
 God cannot hate them that have his nature , and 
 Image. 
 
 D. Well fir : I came not to difpute with you, but to 
 defire you to meet a Roman Catholick Prieft, that I may 
 hear you both together. 
 
 R. I have the greater hopes of you, becaufe you have 
 fomuch regard of your foul, as to be willing to hear 
 what can be faid. For raoft that turn to them, never 
 come to an impartial tryal, But rafhly follow the de- 
 ceiver, or flay till they are fecretly hardened by falfe in- 
 sinuations, and then take on them to defire to hear both, 
 when they are firft refolved to be gone. 
 
 But you muft tell me what is the queftion that you de- 
 fire fliould bt difputed. 
 
 D. I would know whether the Papifts or the Prote- 
 ftants be the True, and fafe Religion ? 
 
 R. I undertake to give you that plain undenyable evi- 
 dence for your resolution, which fhould fully fatisfie any 
 reafonable man, at leaft that profeiTeth himfelf a Chri- 
 stian .• fo be it you will perform thefe reafonable condi- 
 tions : i. That you will be impartially willing to know 
 the truth. 2. That you will honeftly refolve to Live 
 according to it when you know it, and to be True to the 
 True Religion. 3 . That you will bring fuch a man to 
 confer with me, who will yield to the Reafonable Condi- 
 tions of a difputant, fuch as your Doubt and the nature 
 of the matter doth notorioufly require, and not a Knave, 
 
 B3 and 
 
cm 
 
 and ftudied Deceiver, who will fet himfelf purpofely to 
 hide the truth. 
 
 IX Thefe conditions are fo reafonable that I mufl not 
 deny them. 
 
 CHAP. II. 
 
 The Conditions of the Conference -, between a P. And 
 R. and D. 
 
 R* CIR, I am defired by this perfon, who is brought 
 
 i3by fome of you to doubt of our Religion,to debate 
 this Cafe with you in order to his fatisfa&ion, Whether 
 the Papifis or the Proteftants be the True and Safe Re- 
 ligion ? 
 
 P. That is too large a Queftion : We cannot difpute 
 of all our Religion at once : I will begin with you, 
 about fome one of the Articles of the Church of En- 
 gland, or the Visibility of your Church in all Ages, or 
 the Refolution of your faith , &?c. And this I will 
 do only on thefe conditions, i. That you bring fome 
 cxprefs Text of Scripture, which without your Inter- 
 pretation, Reafonings or Confequences, doth affert that 
 Article of yours which I fhall faccufe, or contradict 
 any Article of our faith, which fhall be queftioned. 
 2. Or if you will go from the exprefs words to Rea- 
 foning, that we keep to the ffri&eft Rules of Logick, 
 and that you ufe nothing but Syllogifm, and that all be 
 done in writing, and not by word of mouth. 
 
 R. Neighbour D. you promifed me to bring another 
 kind of Difputant : You hear his conditions: you fhall 
 hear my anfwer. 
 
 i. The Cafe which you told me you were in doubt 
 of, and defired fatisfa&ion in, was Which is the True 
 
 *nd 
 
(7) 
 
 and Safe Religion I This he refufeth to Difpute* Pre- 
 tending that we cannot difpute of our whole Religion 
 at once. But did you never hear him give any Rea- 
 fons againfl our Religion ? If he have, Why can he not 
 do it now ? I exped not all in a word , but let him 
 give them one by one, and fay his worft. I am fure I 
 can give you many againfl theirs : And we will after 
 debate them particularly as largely as you pleafe. 
 
 2. \*i Writing be it that you defire for yourfatisfa- 
 &ion, I ask you, whether you have read all, or the 
 fourth part, of what is written againfl Popery already. 
 Have you re_ad Dr. Challoner of the Catholick Church ? 
 Dr. White y Dr. Field y Dr. Dow name of Antichrift, 
 ChiHingwortb, Dr. <*Abbot, Dr. WiUet, Bifhop Vjher, 
 Bifhop Morton , Dr. Stilling fleet , and an hundred 
 more? Why fliould I expecf that you fhould read 
 what I fhall write, if you will not read what's writ- 
 ten already ? 
 
 3. Can you (lay fo long unrefolved without injury 
 to your foul, till he and I have done writing ? You 
 cannot but know, that from Sheets we muft proceed to 
 the writing of Volumes, in anfwering each other, as 
 others have done. And this is like to be many years 
 work, for men that have other bufinefs : And how know 
 you that we fhall all Live folong ? 
 
 4. Are you able when it cometh to tedious Volumes 
 to examine them, and find who is in the right ? Or will 
 you not rather take him to conquer, who hath the laft 
 word ? And it's like that will be the longeft liver ? 
 
 5. And as to a ftricl: fyllogifticai form, do you un- 
 derfland that beft } I avoid it not, but fhall confent to 
 ufe it as far as you underfland it. Do you know ail 
 the Logical forms of arguing, all Moods and Figure*, 
 and all the fallacies ? Or do you not perceive , that you 
 have broken your promife with me , and brought a 
 
 B 4 friend 
 
(8) 
 
 friend of darknefs, who cometh purpofely to hide the 
 truth ? 
 
 D. Imuft needs profefs, that the Queftion which I 
 would have debated, is, Which is the True and Safe Reli- 
 gion ? And that it is not tedious writings, nor long de- 
 Tayes, but prefent conference which muft fatisfie me. 
 And that it is plain Scripture and Reafon that muft fa- 
 tisfie me, who underftand not Logick. I pray let me 
 hear your own Conditions which you think more juft. 
 
 R. The Conditions which the nature of the Caufe 
 direc^ech us to, are thefe. 
 
 I. That we firft truly ftate the queftion to be di- 
 fputed : For we cannot difpute till we are agreed of 
 what : That is, i . That we agree what we mean by 
 our £ Religion ] ; and 2. That I tell you, what is the 
 Religion of Proteftants, which I undertake to defend : 
 And that he tell us what is the Religion of the Roma- 
 nics, which muft be compared with it. 
 
 I I. That our Conference confift of thefe feveral 
 parts. 
 
 1. That premifing the principles in which we are 
 agreed, I tell you the Reafons why you fhould not be 
 a Papift. 
 
 2. That he tell you the Reafons why you fhould turn 
 Papift, or what he hath againft Our Religion. 
 
 3. That then we come to difpute thefe Reafons di- 
 ftin&ly : where I will prove my charges againft them, 
 and he fhall prove his charges againft us one by one. 
 
 III. And that in all our difputes, we fhall confent, 
 1. Not to interrupt each other in fpeech 5 but if the 
 length feern to overmatch the hearers memory, we will 
 take brief Notes to help our memories, as we go, and 
 crave the recitation of what fhall be forgotten : For the 
 ftrength of Truth Iyeth fo much in the connexion of its 
 parts, that when it is mangled into fcraps. by uncivil in- 
 ter- 
 
(p) 
 
 terruptions, it is deformed and debilitated and cannot 
 be well underftood. 
 
 2. That we bind our felves by folemn promife, to 
 fyeak nothing which we unfeignedly judge not to be 
 truth ? nor any thing defignedly to hide or refill the 
 truth which we difcern. 
 
 Thefe terms are fo juft and necefTary , that I will 
 avoid him as a fraudulent wrangler who will deriy 
 them. For I come Hot to fcold, nor to try who hath 
 the ftrongeft Lungs , the nimbleft Tongue , or the 
 lowdeft voice, or the greateft confidence, or fierceft paf- 
 fion -, but to try who hath the truth, and which is the 
 true way to Heaven. . For the fervant of the Lord muft 
 not ftrive - ? cfpecially about words and barren notions ; 
 for that doth but tend to increafe ungodlinefs. 
 
 D. Your Method is fo reafonable, and fo fuited to 
 my own neceftity, that I muft profefs no other can fo 
 much tend to my fatisfaction : And therefore I hope 
 it willnotberefufed. 
 
 (Here after long ,oppofition, the V. at laft agreeth 
 to thefe terrqs ). 
 
 CHAP. III. 
 
 What it the Religion of the Troteftants. 
 
 R. 
 
 I. HpHe word [Religion ~\ is fometimes taken 
 X Objellively ; And fo I mean by it, £ The 
 objetts of Religious Belief > Love and Tr alike ^ ] which 
 are, i . The Things themfelves ^ which are the principal 
 objeEls ( called by Logicians, The Incomplex terms. ) 
 2. The organical objett j or the Revelation of thefe 
 Things - 5 containing i. The Words or other Signs: 
 2, The fenfe or notions fignified. 
 
 For 
 
(IO) 
 
 For inftance, Matth. 17. 5. [_This is my Beloved fin 
 in whom I am well p leafed, 3 Here 1 , The Real Incom- 
 flex objett is Chrifi Himfelf, ihe beloved Son of God, 
 and God the Fathers well-pleafednefs in him. 2. The 
 fignal part of the organical objed , or Revelation, is 
 the Words themfelves, as fpoken then, and written now. 
 3. The fgnified notions are the Meaning of the words, 
 and are the chief part of the orgamcal objetf, that is 
 the Divine Revelation, 
 
 The word \_Religion^\ is of larger extent in its 
 fenfe than i" Faith 2 -> For it containeth all that Reve- 
 lation which God hath made Neceffary to falvation ; 
 which is twofold, 1 . That which is to inform the nn- 
 derflandmg with neceffary knowledge and faith. 
 2. That which is neceffary to a Holy Will and a Holy 
 Life, to the Love of God and man, and to well doing ^ 
 which are Precepts, Promifes and Threatnings. 
 
 1 1. The word £ Religion ~] is oft taken alfo fubje- 
 Bivcly ( as they Fpeak ) - y For the Alls and habits of 
 Love and Obedience, 
 
 Now I fuppofe we are agreed that it is not Religion 
 in this laft fenfe that we are todifpute of ( which is as 
 divers as perfons are : ) But it is that which we call 
 Objective Religion, even the Organical part directly. 
 And if by all this *Z). underftandeth us not, in plainer 
 words, our Queftion is, Of the True Divine Revelation, 
 viz. Which is the True Rule of Faith, Will and Prattice ; 
 that which is held to be fuch by the Proteflants : or that 
 which is held to be fuch by the Papifts ? 
 
 T. I grant you, that this is the flate of the Que- 
 (lion. 
 
 R, I here declare to you then, What is the Religion of 
 the Proteftants. IT IS THE LIGHT and LAW OF 
 GOD CONCERNING HOLY KNOWLEDGE 
 and BELIEF, HOLY WILL and PRACTICE, 
 
 CON- 
 
CONTAINED IN NATURE and THE TRUE 
 CANONICAL SCRIPTURES. 
 
 Here note i. That our Religion hath its Efjential 
 parts ♦, And its Integral parts and Accidentals. I. The 
 Effentials of our Religion, are contained in the Baptif 
 mal Covenant •, which is expounded in the CREED, 
 the LORDS PRAYER, and the DECALOGUE 
 ( as. delivered and expounded by Chrift, and the Law 
 of Nature* ) 
 
 1 1. Our Entire Religion, in the Effentials, Integrals 
 and needful Accidentals is contained wholly in the 
 Law of Nature and the Canonical Serif tures. 
 
 The Sffentials are delivered down to us two wayes : 
 I. In Scripture with the reft ^ 2. By the fire tradition 
 of the Vniverfality ofChriflians, in attual BaptizJngs, 
 and the daily profeffwn ofChriftianity. This is all the 
 Protefiants Religion. If you fatten any other on us, 
 we deny it ^ we own no other. And none know What 
 is my Religion, that is, What I take for the Rule of my 
 holy Faith, Love and Life, fo well as niyfelf 
 
 P. This is meer craft : you will make that only 
 which is paft controverfie among us, to be Tour Religi- 
 on, that fo your Religion may be paft controverfie too. 
 
 R. It is fuch Craft as containeth that naked truth, 
 which we truft all our own falvation on. I fay that 
 I have no other Religion ^ And if you know better than 
 I, difproveme. 
 
 P. I difprove you three wayes. I. Becaufe the 
 Name Protefiant fignifieth no fuch Religion, but fome- 
 what elfe lately taken up. II. Becaufe the Augu- 
 fiane Confeffion, the thirty nine Articles and fuch like, 
 are by your felves called The Articles of your Religion. 
 III. Becaufe all your Writings declare, that befides 
 thefe, you hold all thofc controverted points, which are 
 contrary to that which you call Popery. 
 
 R< 
 
(12) 
 
 R. I prfly you mark T>. that he would perfwade you 
 that he ktioweth my Religion better than / do my [elf > 
 What if I fhould pretend the like as to his Religion f 
 <^ere I to be believed ? 
 
 P. No : but if you have an odd Religion of your 
 own, that prove th it not to be the Trot eft ant Religion. 
 
 R. Remember D. that I come not hither to perfwade 
 yon to any other Religion, than this which I have men- 
 tioned. Let him talk as long as he will what is ^ other 
 mens opinions, I perfwade yon to nothing but this, to 
 take Gods Law of Nature and the Scripture for your 
 Religion. Either this is Right ox Wrong. If Right, fix 
 here and I have 'done, \iWrong, let that be difputed . 
 
 But yet I open to you all his three deceits. 
 
 I. The name Troteftant doth not fignifie our Reli- 
 gion, but our Frotefting againft the Papifis corruptions 
 
 and additions. I have no Re- 
 ject againft chiUwgmnh cb. 2. ligion but Chriftianity : '" J am 
 %Z ttH?fZ*$?Z% * ChriftUn, and that fignifieth 
 
 moujly to agree, than in this, that all my Religion* I am a Ca- 
 
 t*ZZ!&;°,££" falWphrifiUn , that -is, of 
 
 xvbkh they hold as the oniyfoun- the Common Chriflian Faith 
 ihenVlnh t ™?w&ffif l £<£ andChurch,z\\& not of any he - 
 this Confdfion. retical dividing Sett : And I 
 
 am a Reformed Troteftant 
 Chriftian, becaufe / renounce Topery. Therefore I ra- 
 ther fay £ The Troteftants J than the £ Troteftant ] 
 Religion. As if I were among Lepers ; If I fay; / am 
 no Leper, that fignifieth not my EJfence : But if I fay, 
 \_I am a Man, and I am ?iet a Leper, ] I fpeak my 
 Nature, and my freedom from that difeafe. So if I fay 
 I am zChriftian Troteftant, I mean only that I am a 
 Chriflian, and no Tapift, or renouncing Topery ^ as by 
 the word \_ Cathotickjj I renounce all Seels and Schifms* 
 I tell you, This is my meaning, when I fay , / am a. 
 
 Troteftant^ 
 
d3) 
 Trotefiant : and can you tell my meaning better than 
 myfelf? 
 
 1 1. And as to what he faith of the thirty nine Ar- 
 ticles and o:her Church Confeftions, I anfwer, None of 
 thefe are our Religion, in the fenfe now in queftion • 
 that is, They are not taken by us to be \_ the Divine 
 Revealed-Rule of our Faith , Love and Life ] which is 
 our Religion now difputed of. And that this is fo, I prove 
 to you paft all queftion. 
 
 For i . Elfe (hould we have as many Religions as wc 
 have Qwrch Confejfwns, and fhould alter our Religion 
 as oft as we alter our Confeffwns ^ and our Religion 
 fhould be as New a9 thofe Confejfions: All which the 
 Proteftants abhor. 
 
 2, All thofe very Confeffions themfelves do affert 
 that Gods Word is our only Religion, and all mens Wri- 
 tings and Decrees are lyable to miftakes : To pafs by 
 all the reft, thefe are the words of our fixth Article, 
 £ " Holy Scripture containeth all things NecefTary to 
 " faivation : fo that whatfoever is not read therein, nor 
 lc may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any 
 Ki man, that it fhould be believed as an Article of faith, 
 " or be thought Requifite or neceffary to faivation ]. 
 What would you have more plain and full ? 
 
 And in the Book of Ordination, it is askt £ u Are 
 you perfwade'd that the Holy Scriptures contain fuffici- 
 "ently all dc&rine required of neceflky for eternal 
 " falvadon ? through faith in Jefus Chrift ? And are 
 " you determined out of the fald Scriptures to inftrud: 
 " the people committed to your charge ? and to teach 
 xc Nothing fas required of necetfity to eternal falvati- 
 " on ) but .that which you (hall be perftvaded may be 
 iC concluded and proved by the Scripture ? J Is not this 
 plain ? 
 
 P, Why then do you call the thirty nine Articles the 
 
 Articles 
 
(i\) 
 
 Articles of your Religion ? And what is their ufe ? And 
 why are all required to fubfcribe them ? 
 
 R. i . Their Ufe is to fignifie how the Conjunct Pa- 
 flors who ufe them do mderftand the Holy Scriptures 
 mthofe joints : And that partly for the fatisfaftion of 
 oil forreign Churches , who may hear us accufed of He- 
 refie or Error-, and partly to be a hedge to the Doctrine 
 of young Preachers, to ^<?f them from vending miftakes 
 in the Churches, and alfo to try the foundnefs of their 
 understandings. 
 
 2. The Confeflions, and Articles, and Catechifms are 
 our Religion, as the Writings of Perron, Bellarmine, 
 Suarez,, &c, or many of thefe agreeing, are the Roman 
 Religion : They are not the Divine Revelation and Rale 
 of faith and practice to us : But they are the exprefften 
 of our oven conceptions of the fenfe of feveral chief 
 matters in that Rule or Revelation. So that they 
 are the Exprejfton of our faith or Religion taken f abje- 
 ct™ tly (for alts and habits ) and not our objetlive Rule 
 it felf Our Sermons and Prayers are our Religion in 
 this fenfe : that is, The Exprejfton of our own Religions 
 Conceptions : And fo are your Sermons and your Wri- 
 tings alfo to you. But if this were our Rule of Faith 
 and Life, and fo our Divine Objetlive Religion , then 
 we fhould be of as many Religions , as we are feveral 
 per fens : For every one haeh his feveral Exprejfuns : 
 And every new Sermon, or Book, or Prayer, would be 
 a new part of Religion. And fo with you alfo. So 
 that this doubt is pall: alt doubt : Our Confefiions are 
 but the exprejfions of our perfonal belief, and not our 
 Rule of Faith, 
 
 III. And as to your third pretence f that we have 
 other Articles as oppofite to Popery ) I anfwer, Our 
 Religwn as a Rule of Fait \i and Worjhipis one thing: 
 And our Rejecting all Corruptions and Additions is ano* 
 
 thtr. 
 
(15) 
 ther. E.g. My Religion is, that our God is only the true 
 God. If now I fay aifo, that Hercules is not God, and 
 Batch pis is not God, and Venus, Mars, Mercury } Pal- 
 las, Neptune, Pluto, Ceres, &c. are not Gods-, is this 
 a new Religion, or an addition to the former ? If the 
 Baptifmal Covenant be the Ejfentials of my Religion, 
 and the Creed, Lords Prayer and Decalogue the Expli- 
 cation of it ^ and if the Scripture be my Entire Reli- 
 gion, and if the Papifts will come and add a multitude 
 of new Articles and Corruptions, my rejecting of thofe 
 additions , is no more an alteration of my Religion, 
 than thefweepingofmy houfe, or the wafhing of my 
 hands is an alteration of them. So that notwithstand- 
 ing all that you have faid, my Religion is nothing but the 
 Law of Nature and Scripture , and my rejecting of 
 Popery, is no otherwife my Religion, than my freedom 
 from the Leprofie, &c. is my humanity. 
 
 P. Obferve, I pray you, that It is no part of your 
 Religion to be againft Popery. 
 
 R. Obferve I pray you, that Popery is againfi my 
 Religion , that is, againft much of the Chriftian Reli- 
 gion j and therefore my Religion is againft Popery. 
 But I will not quarrell with you about words ; When 
 God hath Revealed to us his Will, and the Papifts add 
 their corrupting inventions, Gods Revealed Will is my 
 Religion : your Corrupting additions are contrary to 
 it : Call my rejecting fuch (Corruptions and additions, 
 by the name o&my Religion Redu&ively ( as Nihil is 
 ohjeElum Intellettus, & Malum Voluntatis ; and as non- 
 agere is part of obedience ) ., or Call it no part of my 
 Religion in the primary notion, but a Rejecting of its 
 contraries • fo we underftand each other I care not. 
 
 The truth is, the Re jetting offome of your errors, 
 directly contradicting the Scripture it felf, may be cal- 
 led part of our Religion, as the Negation of the Con- 
 trary 
 
(16) 
 
 trary is included in the fenfe of an Affirmative ; But 
 your remoter additions, are contrary to our Religion, 
 but not fo dire&ly. For inftance.* when the Scripture 
 faith, There is bread after Consecration , and you fay 
 There is no bread : My Religion containeth the AfTerti- 
 on, that There is bread: Andfo includeth a contradicti- 
 on to your Negative, that faith |" There is none~\* 
 Now to fay, that It is none of my Religion to deny your 
 Negative , who fay There is no bread, would import that 
 It is none of my Religion which affirmeth that there is 
 bread. Contradictions cannot both be true : Properly 
 that word that faith There is bread is my Religion : But 
 this word contradi&eth you that fay There is none. 
 
 But in another inftance - y my Religion faith, that The 
 Righteous fliall go into life everlafting, and the reft to 
 everlafting punifhment • and tells us of a Heaven and 
 Hell only hereafter : And you tell us of Limbus Pa- 
 trum& Infant urn, and of Purgatory : The Scripture en- 
 ablethus by confequence to confute this: but if it did 
 not, it were enough for me to fay, It is none of my 
 Religion, becaufe not Revealed by God in Nature or 
 Scripture ; And as it is your Addition, fo to deny it, is 
 not dire lily and properly my Religion it felf, but the 
 Defence and Vfe of my Religion. God tells us in Scri- 
 pture, that He created Heaven and Earth. If one 
 fhouid afTert as from God, that God created ten thou- 
 fand Heavens and ten theufand Earths, this is a faith of 
 his own invention or addition, and it is enough for me to 
 fay, / have no fitch faith ^ beciufe God revealeth no 
 fuch thing. So tha<: ftill ihe Scripture is the Proteftants 
 Religion as your Pu lydor Virgil truly defenbeth them, 
 and Oihers confefs. 
 
 P. All this is meer dek-fion : For It is not the 
 words, but the fenfe that is your Religion ; as you will 
 confefs. And if your Articles or Coufelllons contain 
 
 a falfi 
 
(17) 
 
 a falfe fenfe, or your Books or Sermons fhew that you 
 falfly ex found the Scripture , your Religion is then 
 falfe. 
 
 A'. Such Confufion may cheat a heedlefs hearer : But 
 any one that will take heed , may quickly perceive, 
 that you here fraudulently play with the ambiguity of 
 the word [_ Religion '] and quite turn to another que- 
 ftion; For you now ffeak^ of fubje£iive Religion, that 
 is, of the Acls and habits of the ferfon : whereas we 
 are difputing only of objective Religion, which is Gods 
 Revelation and our Rule. If I under fiand any Texts of 
 Scripture amifs , my faith is fo far defective in my 
 felf. But Cods Word j which is my Rule i is never the 
 more imperfect. 
 
 I pray you confidcr how juftly you have fpoken. 
 i. Is a mans ^Ach ef faith, Gods Word ex Revelation $ 
 2. What need you diipute of the Prote ft ants Religion , 
 if we have as many Religions as ferfons f For it is as 
 certain that we have as many degrees of our under- 
 flandwg many Texts of Scripture ? 3 . Would not this 
 prove alfo as many Religions as ferfons among your 
 felvcs ? Is it not mod certain that no two Papifts in the 
 world, have juft the fame fenfe or conceptions of the 
 Scriptures and Councils in each f articular. The Law 
 of God is my only Religion, objectively, as now difputed 
 of : If I mi flake any ejfential part of it, fo as to deny 
 it, I am f erf on all) a Heretickj if I miftake any Inte- 
 gral part, I fo far err from the Rule of my Religion or 
 faith. But I fti 11 profefe, that I take Gods Word or 
 Law only for my fure unchangeable Rule or objective 
 Religion, and I am daily learning to underftand it bet- 
 t;r, and as foon as I fee my error I will reform it, 
 :ni blame my felf and not my Rule. And I think 
 50 j will fay the (am: of your Rule ani of your fer fa- 
 tal errors. 
 
 C P. This 
 
r is ; 
 
 P. This fl all not ferve your turn : For every Law 
 muft have its promulgation : And if it be not manifc- 
 fied to you that Scripture is Gods Law, and fufficient, it 
 cannot be your Rule : I ask you therefore, 
 
 Qu. i. Is it the Scripture in the Original, or in the 
 Tranflatiovs, which you fay is your Religion , Law or 
 Rule t 
 
 R. I told you our Divine Rule confifteth of Words 
 and Meaning, It is only the Originals which are our 
 Rule or Religion as to the very words ; that is, Only 
 the Original words, were of that Divine Infpiration. 
 But every 'Translation is fo iar Coas Word, in fenfe , as 
 it 'exprefieth truly 'he fenfe of the original words, 
 
 P. Qu. 2. I pray you what thenis^the Religion of 
 all the unlearned Proteftants, who know not a word of 
 the Originals ? They may fee now that you have ftript 
 them oi all Divine Religion. 
 
 R. Their Religion is the fame objectively with that 
 of the moft learned, as deliverer from God » but it is 
 'not equally learned and underftood by them • Cods Word 
 in the Original Tongues is given them as the Rule of 
 Faith and Worflrif ; zndTeachcrs are appointed to help 
 them to underftand it. When thefe Teachers have 
 Translated it to them, they have the fan: e fenfe, though 
 not the fmc words, for their Religion. And to know 
 the Words is not fo necefiary to falvation, as to kndw the 
 fenfe for fentence ) though by other words: For the 
 words are but means to know the Senfe ; and the fenfe 
 but & means to know the Things, (viz.. God, Chrift, 
 Grace, Glory, $c. ) And as they have the fame 
 God, ftrift, Spirit y Grace, Glory, cj-c. to be the real ob- 
 jells of their Religion, fo have they the fame 2>J- 
 DoBrinc and Law in fenfe which is in the Ori- 
 ginals. 
 
 P. Q. -<» And Jprav you, How fliall the unlearned 
 
 be 
 
(19) 
 
 be Cure that the Tranflations are true as to the fence } 
 when you have no Divine Infallible Translators ? 
 
 R. I alfo ask you. i. How was all the Greek Church 
 for many hundred years fure of the foundnefs of the 
 Tranilation called the Septuagint ? or that of Aquila, 
 Theodot.Symmacbtu, &c. when it is certain that in ma- 
 ny things they were all unfound ? 
 
 2. How was the Latine Church fare of the foundnefs 
 of their Tr an flat ion before flier on, e amended it ? And 
 how have you been fure fnce then, when Pope Sixtm^ 
 and Pope Clement have made fo many hundred alterati- 
 ons or differences ? Had you then Infallible Translators ? 
 And why then do your Tranflators ( as dMontanus and 
 others J flill differ from that Vulgar Latine ? 
 
 3. And how do all your unlearned perfons know 
 that you give them not only the true fence of the Scri- 
 pt nre s } but of all your Councils or Traditions ? 
 
 But I will anfwer you directly. We ftill diftin- 
 guilli the Effentials of our Religion^ irom the Integrals 
 and Accidentals. 1. The unlearned may be certain 
 that the EJfentials are truly delivered them in fe?:ce : 
 Becaufe they have ihem not only in the Scripture, but by 
 Vntverfal certain Tradition jn the cenflvant VfeofCkri- 
 Jfian Baptifm, and in [he ufc of the Crecd^ Lords Prayer 
 and Decalogue in all ihe Church-afTemblies : And they 
 may eafily know that mens tempers, Countrcys, Lite- 
 rcfts, opinions in other points, and fidings are fo vari- 
 ous, that it is not a thing poilible without a miracle, 
 that all thefe fhould confpire both in ifalfe Tranjiation, 
 and Vnivcrfal ajfertion and Tradition of all thefe Ejfcn- 
 tials. For the effects muff be contrary to a torrent of 
 Caufes : The Papifts, Proteftants,Arian$, Greeks, $ocf- 
 nians, Lutherans, Calvinifts, Anabaptifts, Separatifts, 
 &c. have.fo much animofity againft each other, that un- 
 doubtedly if any party of them did falfifie Scripture even 
 
 Qz in 
 
(20) 
 
 in the Effentials which arc eafily difcerned, multi.udes 
 would quickly detcd it and contradict them. And this 
 the unlearned may furely and eafily difcern. 
 
 But as for all other Ufs neceffary texts of Scripture, 
 neither you nor we , learned or unlearned, are certain 
 that they are perfeilly tranflated, nor are they by any 
 one perfectly under flood, nor are they fure ( by reafon 
 of the various readings ) which ccpie of the original is 
 abfolutely faultless. 
 
 2. But fuppofe that an unlearned weak Believer were 
 not abfolutely certain fas he may be) that the very ef- 
 fentialsof Chriftianity are truly opened to him, he may 
 yet grow up to better underftanding, and he may be fa- 
 yed with [owe doubt ings of Chriftianity it ft If, fo be it 
 his Faith be more prevalent than thofe doubting?, upon 
 his Heart and Life. 
 
 P. Is it a fafe Religion which you your felf defcribe ? 
 When no man can be fure that he rightly underflandeth 
 all the Scriptures? and when your believer is uncertain, 
 even of Chriftianity it felf ? Let D. Judge whether 
 this be a fure Religion. 
 
 R. The word of God is abfolutely certain in it felf* 
 but that fo much uncertainty may be'in believers, 1 will 
 make you to your fhame confefs your felf, and recant 
 thefe inlinuations. 
 
 ^. i. Dare ycu fay that all your Church, or any one 
 man, even the Pope hi??? felf, doth underftaud all the Scri- 
 pture ? or can perfectly and infallibly tranflate each 
 word? You dare net fay ir. Elfe why did he never 
 once pretend to give us either an unerring Commentary 
 or Tranflation ? And why have you fuch great divtrfity 
 cf both ? 
 
 ^.2. How much lefs dare ycu fay that any of you 
 perfectly imderftand all the Councils, which are the reft 
 of your Religion ? No nor that you have certainty 
 
 which 
 
(Zl) 
 
 which are the true Copies of them all ? elfe why do 
 Caranz,a, Crab, Surius, Binniiu, Nicolinm, &c give 
 give us fuch various Copies ? And yet you confefs the 
 Scriptures to be Gods word, and with the Councils to 
 contain your Religion. 
 
 ^^3. If God have promifed falvation, to all that 
 truly nold and pra&ife the Effentials (the Baptifmal 
 Covenant) doth the difficulty of other points fin Gene- 
 alogie, Chronologie, Hiftory, by-matters ) either make 
 our falvation ever the lefs certain, or any way impeach 
 the word of God ? What difgrace is it to a man that 
 befides Head and Hearty he hath fingers, and toes, and 
 nails and hair ? No more is it to the Scripture, that as 
 our entire Religion, it containeih even Integrals and 
 Accidentals. 
 
 Q^ 4. And as to a Doubting Believer •, I a^k, Dare 
 you iay that all thofe were 
 infidels or in a flate of dam- s - e the Ro PV- n i atA - where 
 
 • r 1 r , . this is conkftj C\ . 1. q.u 
 
 nation, who laid, Lord in- la g.<^ 
 creafe our faith f or Lord we 
 
 believe • help our unbelief? or to whom Chrift faid, 
 Why are ye afraid O ye of little faith ? or that faid, 
 Luk. 24. We trufled that this had been he that foottld 
 have delivered Ifrael ? Or if a man fhould doubt even 
 of the Life to come, and yethrs faith be fo much more 
 powerful than his doubts, as that he refolveth to prefer 
 his hopes of Heaven before all this world y and to feek it 
 on the mo ft fclf-denying terms, even to the laying down 
 of life it felf, are you fure that this manfiall be damned I 
 But this is the Courfe of pievifh wranglers. To main- 
 tain their own opinions and put a face of certainty on 
 their own conclufions, they ftick not to damn almoft all 
 the world. For it will be no lei^ if all doubting be* 
 litvers rauft be damned, 
 
 C 3 5. It 
 
(22) 
 
 5. It is a grcfs delufion to pretend that there is 3 
 
 necefiity, that AH Gods In- 
 St.- Dr. . f;V/..v« ^/m/ f.-iu, l".t. fallible word, muft- needs be 
 
 taught us by as Infallible In- 
 fpired Prophets or other perfons, as thofe that firft de- 
 livered it f Tr an fat ion is but the firft part of expo fit i- 
 on, And muft we have none but Infallible or Prophet i- 
 caL Expo fit or s f 
 
 6. Is it All the Scriptures, or but jW/f part 1 , that your 
 Pope or Councils can Infallibly both tranilate and ex- 
 pound ? If but forte, we need not their Infallibility or 
 Jnfpiration, for the mo ft plain and necejfary parts : It is 
 andean be done without them. If it be All, how im- 
 pious and cruel are they that would never do it to this 
 day ? 
 
 7. And why life' all your Expositors the common helps 
 of Grammars, Lexicons,- Teachers, long fludies, and 
 yet differ dc fide (even of the fenfe of many a text 
 cf Scripture ) when all is done, if your Pope have the 
 gift of Infallible Tranflating and expounding all ? 
 
 P. Remember that your felves derive your Effentials 
 from Tradition . 
 
 R. Yes, and our Integrals to : What objective pre- 
 fence to thefenfes, (eyes and earsj of thofe that heard 
 Chriftand his Apoftles, and law their mir cles was to 
 the fy ft Converts in thefe times, tt.u partly Tradition 
 
 is to as , or the neccfiary 
 
 He tint would know what ftrefs medium. The Words COUli 
 we hy on Traditiot^as the Me- i • i 
 
 diuTi may ^ it fully in m/ ft«* not come down to US, Wltll- 
 ),7. oj < ■;■„>:. k ,. ,-. And Dr. ouc f^Hie to deliver them. 
 
 Ji,-Ja-:n k more tor us than tor * -, r i i „ / , , n- / • 
 
 fie iVpi(t-, c ./, . 5 . We have the i?;i>/V by Trafc- 
 
 #>#,, and we have praiiical 
 Tradition of Baptijm and ihe (freed by if /Wf, and tha: 
 in many languages; where we are furewehave all the 
 necejfary fence. But do vou resnrmber that this is 
 
Vniverfal Tradition, and not meer Roman Tradition \ 
 fuch as is certain by moral Evidence, even the confent of 
 all that are yet of crofs opinions and Inter e ft s> (as to 
 matter of faft ) • Hiftoncal Evidence ^ and not the 
 pretended certainty of a Pope and his favourites, pha- 
 natically claiming a fpirit of Infallibility. 
 
 But I am not now difpuring with you, I am only 
 telling you that the Proteftant Religion is nothing but 
 Chrifttanity and the Scriptures, And all our Confef 
 /ions are our Religion ( befides Confent ) but as our 
 Sermons and Trcatifcs are, which vary as they are va- 
 rious exprefiions of mens various fubje&ive faith ■, while 
 Cods word varyeth not. 
 
 P. If the Bible be your Religion, then the Ceremo- 
 nial Law of Mofes is your Religion ; For that is part 
 of the Bible. 
 
 R. Youfludy what to fay againft another, and never 
 think how it concerneth your (elves, i. Is not the Bi- 
 ble at leaft Part of your Religion ? You dare not deny 
 it. And is the Ceremonial Law of Mofes therefore 
 your Religion f 
 
 2. I told you that as a perfetl man hath hair and 
 nails, which are but Accidents, fo the Bible hath more 
 than fa Integrals of our Religion. 
 
 3 . The Ceremonies of Mofes in that fenfe as now they 
 are delivered to us in the Bible, are parts or appurte- 
 nances of our Religion : That is, the hiftorical narra- 
 tive of thofe Abrogated Laws, which now bind us not 
 as Laws, but tell us ( as the Prophefies ) what wat hire 
 tofore, and how Chrift was fore-typified, and what in- 
 timations of Gods will we may gather from thehiitory. 
 And the abrogated Laws are no othcrwife delivered to 
 us, and fo we mult ufe them. , 
 
 P. If the ten Commandments be your Religion, 
 you muft keep the Jewifh feventh day Sabbath: 
 
 C 4 fo 
 
I 2 4) 
 jp that neither there can you fix, 
 
 R. The fame anfwer will ferve. i. The ten Com- 
 mandments are no other wife part of mr Religion trun 
 they are of yours. 2. They are a Law to m y as deli- 
 vered and expounded by fr ri ft-> an ^ m Nature : and the 
 feventh day is an abrogated part of Afofes Law. 
 
 P. If the faed be your Religion, you muft take the 
 Ariicle of Chrifts defcent into Hell to be necefiary to 
 falvation. 
 
 R. i. Is the freed no part of your Religion ? As you 
 anfwer, fo may we. 2. I did not tell you that the 
 Creed had no more than the EJfentials. I told you that 
 all iIk EJfence of Chriftianity is in the Bapifmal Cove- 
 nant ; And he thar underftandeth fW, underftandeth it 
 all. And that the Creed, the Lords Prayer , and the 
 Christian Decalogue are the expofition of ir. But the 
 Expofition may have fomewbat more than the Ejfenti- 
 als. 3. The freed was not written firft in Englifh, 
 nor Latine ; And Chrifts defcent to Hades is more 
 needful to be believed, than his defcent to HeH, as the 
 Word is commonly taken in Englifti. 
 
 But, to conclude, remember, 1. 1 hat I profefs here 
 to own and plead for no otber Religion (as we ex- 
 plained the word ) but Gods Law of Nature and 
 Scripture. 2. That I profefs to perfwade D. to no 
 other : And you cannot make me a Religion againft 
 .my will. 
 
 CHAP, 
 
CHAP., IV. 
 
 What is the fapifis Religion. 
 
 F. T Have plainly told you what my own, and the 
 X Prote&ints Religion is, viz. [Nothing but Qmi- 
 fiianity ; contained Integrally in the holy Scriptures • 
 And the ElTentials being the Baptifmal Covenant, ex- 
 plained in the (reed. Lords prayer and Chriftian Deca- 
 logue^ are delivered to m both in the Jaid Scriptures, 
 and by diftind Tradition • which alfo hath brought 
 down to tu the Scripture it felf : Not a Tradition de- 
 pending on the pretended Authority of the Roman Pope 
 or party, or on any other that ft all pretend the like - 5 But 
 that Hiftorical Evidence ^/matter of fad:, which is fure- 
 Iier given us by all forts of Chriftians, taking in tht 
 (one or d of many Heretickjy Infidels and Enemies • 
 which evidence dependeth n*t on the credit of fuperna- 
 tural Revelation, but on the natural credibility yea and 
 certainty of fuch univerfal Circumftantiated Concordant 
 teftimony y and is necejfarily antecedent to the Belief of 
 fupernatural Revelations in the particulars, as fight and 
 hearing were in the auditors of Qorifi and the Apo files -, 
 feeing thefe two Atts of Knowledge^ [^Whatever God 
 faith is True - 5 and This God faith ~\ mufi necejfarily go 
 before our Belief or Truft that £This is True, becaufe 
 God faith it.] And fo we run not in a circle ', and need 
 not a fupernatural faith , for the founding of our firfi 
 fupernatural faith ; that is y Afirfi before the firfi. ] 
 
 Without fraud or obfeurity this is our faith and Re- 
 ligion. 
 
 Now do you as honeftly and plainly tell me What is 
 Tours, which D. muft be perfwaded to : For I confefs 
 
 that 
 
^20 J 
 
 that I take it to be an unintelligible thing, and defpair 
 that ever you give any man a certain notice, what it is, 
 which may be truly called the Religion of your Roman- 
 Catholick-Church. 
 
 P. I (rail make you underfhnd it if you are willing: 
 But i. Note that [Religion'} being a larger word than 
 [faith ~] includeth alfo \Prallice~\ or [Manner s\ 
 we muft give you a diftina account of each : For • they 
 have not the fameCaufes: Our Faith is -Divine-, But 
 our Manners or Practice muft follow the Lavas of the 
 Churchy as well as the Immediate Laws of God : Thefe 
 muft not be confounded. 
 
 R. Man hath three faculties, Intellective, Volitive and 
 Vitally- Executive, or Active : Our Religion fubj etlive- 
 ly muft be in all, itisu The Sanctity of all, by Holy Ltfe y 
 Light and Love : And therefore the Rule which is our 
 objeSiive Religion doth extend to all, ( to bitelletl. Will 
 and Practice ), And furely for All, there is a Rttle 
 diretlly Divine, given by Infpiration of the Holy Ghofi 
 or Chrifts own words, and fubordinate Rules by Qorifis 
 Minifters,w\\\c\\*tt directly Humane ; and no other- 
 wife Divine than as God hath in General authorized 
 them thereto. Even as the Soveraign hath the only 
 Vmvcrfal Lcgiflative fower, and Magiflrates by Him 
 are authorized to fubordinate mandates and acts of Go- 
 vernment. 'And fo we have a Divine Faith and Reve- 
 lation, and a fubordinate Humane faith and Minifterial 
 Revelation or Preaching : We have Divine Pcrfwafi- 
 ens, and fibordmate Perfwafwns of men : We have 
 Divine Laws, yea and executions •, and we have Hu- 
 mane fubordinate Laws and executions. If you refolve 
 to cati the Humane, Divine fo far as they are indeed 
 Authorizedby God, I will not quarrel about words : 
 But remember, z . That fo you muft do alio on the fame 
 reafons, by the Laws of Kings and the Commands of 
 
 Parents, 
 
( 2 7 J 
 Parents, who are as mnch authorized by God to their 
 proper Government. 2. And 1 hope you mean not to 
 Confound thefe Humane Laws, with Gods own Vni~ 
 ver/al Laws , nor humane faith with Divine faith* 
 And be it known to you, It is the Divine Revelations 
 and Laws as di flinch from the Humane , which we are 
 now calling our Religion, and difputing of - though 
 this Religion teach us to obey Parents , Paftors and 
 Princes, and that obedience may be confequentially 
 and redudively called Religions if you pleafe. But if 
 really your Religion be noi Divine, but Humane, let us 
 know ir f For by the word \_ Religion ~\ we eflentially 
 mean that which is [_ Divine. ] 
 
 P. Men were the fpeakers and writers of the Scri- 
 ptures, and fo far they are humane, as well as the De- 
 crees of the prefent Church. 
 
 R. The Decalogue waswittenby God, and delivered 
 by the Miniftry of Angels : Chrift was owned by a Voice 
 from Heaven. And himfelf fpake and did moft re- 
 cited by the four Evangelifts : And the Prophets and 
 Apoftles fpake by the immediate Infallible Infpiration 
 of the Holy Ghoft : So that the Holy Ghoft is the 
 Author of the Scriptures. Eut the prefent Paftors of 
 the Church inftead of that Immediate Revelation from 
 •God by the Spirits Infpiration , have but the ordinary 
 help of the Spirit, to underftand thofe fame Revelati- 
 ons , and that proportioned to the meafure of their 
 diligence , natural farts and helps of Art , as 
 the knowledge of Theologie is attained by other 
 Students ^ who are none of them perfed: or free from 
 error. 
 
 P. I will tell you what our Religion is, It is Cods 
 Word concerning things to be Believed and Done deli- 
 vered partly in the Canonical Scriptures, And partly by 
 
 Ord 
 
OralTraJition, and received by the Church, and by it 
 
 delivered to us. The Trent, 
 
 &. Was it from the Church that Catech. Prefac. q. 11. faith, 
 
 the firft Church received it ? Or ~ j ,1 • • 
 
 was it not the fame Divine Reli- OmntS doCtriTlA ratio, qua 
 
 gion which the firft Church (whe- pdellbus tradenda fit , Wr£<? 
 
 thcr Council or Pradicers ) re- •* i-a 
 
 reived without the TraJiti™ of Vei contmeiur, quod in Sen- 
 
 Council ior Praters? If fc, this mm am, Traditionefq- diftri- 
 
 cannot be e(fcntial to Religion. * ' „ rr , * V' r J r 
 
 If the Apoftles words were to be vutum ejt, 1 be Rcajon OJ 
 
 believed, their proved Writings Vfry doctrine which is to 
 
 are to be believed. And tneir . / . . , . 
 
 Writings were proved their, be- Ve delivered to the faith- 
 
 by each Church and oerfon that OJ God , VPtfjCtf IS dlftribu- 
 %™^ E ^ khom:n ;° n: ted into the Scripture and 
 
 Traditions. 
 
 Vide Concil. Senonenf. in Bin. Deer. 5. p. 671. & 
 Concil. Tridentini SefT. 4. p. 802. — Pcrfpicienfcjue 
 banc Veritatem & difciplinam contineri in libris fa- 
 cris, & fine fcripto Traditionibiu, qua ex ipfius Chrifti 
 ore ab jipoftolis accept*, & ab ipjis Apoftolis Spiritu 
 fanlbo dill ante quafi per manus tradita, ad nos ufque 
 pcrvenerunt , orthodoxorum patrum fententiam fequu- 
 ta, omnes libros tarn Vcteris quam Novi Tefiame?iti,nec 
 nonTraditiunes if fas, tumadfidem, turn ad mores per- 
 tinentes, tanquam vel ore tcnus a Chrifto, vel a Spiritu 
 fancio diclatas, cjr continua fnccejfione in EcclejiaCa- 
 tholica confervatas, pari putatis ajjcchi & rcverentia 
 fufcipit ac vencratur. 
 
 Edlarmin. de Ferbo Dci y lib. 4. c. 2, 3. fheweth the 
 divers forts of unwritten Traditions which are part of 
 Gods Word : fome de fide, as the perpetual Virginity 
 of Mary , that there are but four Gofpcls y &c. and 
 Tome of Manners -, as Croifmg, Fafi-dayes, cj-c. fiafter, 
 lVbitfontide y and other Feftivals. 
 
 Vtron 
 
(29) 
 
 Veron de Reg. fid. cap, 2. faith, [ u The total and 
 u only Rule of the Catholick faith, to which all are 
 " obliged under pain of Herefie and Excommunication, 
 u is Divine Revelation delivered to the Prophets And 
 " Apoflles, propofed by the Catholick Church- in her 
 a General Councils , or by her Univerfal pra&ice, to 
 u be believed as an Article of Catholick faith. ~] [_ "All 
 " that is of this nature is an Article or doctrine of 
 " faith. And no other dodrine -can be of faith , if 
 " cither the firft Condition fail, viz. Divine Revelati~ 
 "on, or the fccond, which is a Propofal by thellni- 
 "verfal Church. ] p. 5. No doctrine grounded on 
 " Scripture diver fly interpreted, either by the antient' 
 n Fathers or our Modern Doctors, is an Anicle cf faith. 
 "For fucha do&rine, though it may be revealed, yet 
 " the revelation is not afcertained to us, nor propofed 
 
 u by the Church ; 
 
 u Nor any Propofition which S o that if the Doftors win but 
 " can be proved only by con- diff " cr in their Expofitions, the 
 
 cc r j c e> - Scripture is no more the fure 
 
 fequence drawn from Sen- Wor \j ot ' Godi or to be believed 
 u pture , though the con- b y catholick faith. 
 u fequences were certain and 
 <c evident, and deduced from two proportions of Scri- 
 
 u pture Yet thefe doctrines are Certain, when 
 
 " the premifes are fo. Gratians decrees — the 
 
 Ci Papal decrees contained in the body of the Canon 
 " Law , none of them do conftitute an Article of 
 
 " faith Nor that which is defined in Provin- 
 
 <c cial Councils, though the P. peprefide in perfon 
 
 " for the fecond condition is alwayes wanting in this 
 
 <c cafe, and very often the firft- p. 11. I did not 
 
 " fay that fuch definitions 
 
 " were not of faith 2^ii?°* ^ m a Genor21 
 
 u but they are not of Catho- 
 
 *! licKfath y or which all as Catholicks are bound 
 
(30) 
 " to hold- as of faith , and the contrary to which is 
 " heretical , and removeth from the bofome of the 
 
 a Church. p. 1 2, 13. The 
 
 Mark then, that it may be de fi.le cC Pratlice even of the Vni" 
 
 dwina, though not oftachclick tt * C^i r>L... ^L i* ~~ /•„/!:• 
 n -cejjhy without the pro,ofal of njCr J al Church IS no fuffiCl- 
 
 Council or univerfal prattLe. Cc ent ground for an Atti- 
 
 "cle of Catholick faith \ 
 cc by reafon the objed: of faith is Truth : and 
 a oft times the Church proceeds in matter of pratlicc^ 
 tc upon probable Opinions , and this probability is fuffi- 
 <c cient to juftifie the praclke, which the Church on 
 " juft caufe may change : As e.g. as Vafyucz. teach- 
 * eth, the Church did antiently pray in the Mafs for 
 cc Infidels alive, and Catechumens dead, and the Sacri- 
 u fice of the Mafs was offered for them, and yet he 
 
 « ; rather inclineth to the contrary , that the vSa- 
 
 ic crifice of the Mafs ought not to be offered, but for the 
 cc faithful living and dead , by which Opinion the 
 " Church feemeth guided at prefent. But Vafquez. 
 <c anfwers, that the Church following a probable opi- 
 u nion did pradife that which fhe.did not declare to 
 
 <c be of faith. p. 15. So General Councils 
 
 i( when they mention any thing in this manner ( by way 
 £C of fimple afTerrion ) and do not properly define ; 
 " For as Be liar wine affirms, it is nccefTary that Gene- 
 " ral Councils properly define the thing in queftion, as 
 cc a Decree which ought to be held as of Catholic^ 
 Ci faith. Hence Be lUr mine adds , they are not proper- 
 cC ly Hereticltj, who hold the Pope not to be above all 
 11 Councils, though he fay the laft Laterane Council 
 " under Leo the tenth Sef. 11. exprefly and profeflldly 
 " teacheth that the Pope is above all Councils , and 
 " rejedsthe contrary D cree of the touncil of Bafil: 
 11 becaufe it is doubtful \v\\q htr ihx Later an e Council 
 •"defined that do&rine properly as aDecreeto be be- 
 
 a leived 
 
! " lievedwith Catholic^ faith. The fame Bellarrm. (de 
 u ConciL I. i.e. 19.) alfo requireth that the definition 
 "btnxiAeConciliarly: Pope Martin the fifth faid, he 
 ic only confirmed thofe Decrees of faith which were 
 " made in the Council of Conftanee , Conciliariter : 
 " that is, after the manner of other Councils, the que- 
 u ftion being firft diligently examined : But its clear 
 u ( faith he) that this Decree, that a General Council 
 u hath immediate authority from Chrift , which all, 
 "even the Pope, are bound to obey, was made without 
 
 "any examining p. 17. The object defined muft 
 
 " be truly and property an object of faith ^ and a 
 <c Decree ought to be on a thing univerfaliy propofed 
 
 Cc to the whole Church Vafquez. holds t It is 
 
 " noc at all erroneous to affirm that a General Coun- 
 cC cil may err in Precepts , and in particular Judge- 
 
 <c ments ^and (p. 19. ) in framing Laws not 
 
 cc neceflary to falvation ; or making fuperfiuous Laws — 
 u Without all doubt a General Council may err in a 
 " queftion of fad : ( which depends on teftimony and 
 cc information of men : ) So the fixth General Council 
 " condemned Honorms of Herefie by fa[fe Information, 
 
 <c and mifund rftanding his Epiftles. p.20. The 
 
 " Pope ( faith Suarez. ) to a particular action belonging 
 " to humane Prudence , hath no infallible affiftance of 
 
 u the Holy Ghoft As that fuch or fuch an excom- 
 
 " munication is valid, or that fuch or fuch a Kingdom 
 <c is difpofable by the Pope for fuch and fuch caufes. ] 
 So far Verorty who is raoft favourable to you , in nar- 
 rowing our faich. 
 
 R. Thus far you have refolvedme i but I muft crave 
 fomewhat more. Q^. 1. Are there no EfTential Con- 
 ftituiive parts of your -Religion , more necefTary than 
 the Integrals and Accidentals f Have you no descripti- 
 on for it, but that It is Divine Revelation propofed by 
 
 the 
 
tVi) 
 
 the Church t The Dofirine of Sacrificing was a Divine 
 Revelation to Adam, and the difference of clean arid un- 
 clean Beafts to Noah , and the Jewifh Law was Gods 
 Revelation to Mofes and them ; And yet I fuppofe 
 Chriftianity is fomewhat different from all thefe. Is 
 not Chriftianity your Religion ? Hath Chriftianity no 
 Conftitvtive fpecial EjfenceJdUt only the Genus of Divine 
 Revelation which is common to that with all other 
 Divine Revelations ? And what if you add [" to a 
 Prophet orApoftW} ? Was Agabus Prophefie of Paul, 
 or Pauls of the event of the ihipwrack, &c. effential 
 to Chriftianity l Hath Chriftianity no Ejfence r Or is 
 all Divine Revelation ejfential to it ? 
 
 P. You take advantage of the difagreement of our 
 
 Dodors. You know that 
 
 r johtf. Kcv. Kep.r. 19. of the ex- fome few acknowledg diftinfi 
 
 ^?7/J™ '*$&% fundamentals, and fome deny 
 
 xckat are the points necefary to the diftindionin your fenfe : 
 
 be believed explicitly neceditate a^J-», n. ~C ~ 1* ., »U ^ 
 meiii : Some, and dfe the more And llioft of US lay, that 110 
 
 antient hcu, that the exMiei* man can enumerate the 
 
 belief of God. of the whole Trini- 1 • rr 11 1 
 
 tyjft'bijtlb* Pafio*, Kcfurre. things neceflary to all , but 
 
 ctiov, &c. are necejfary needfitate that it dcpClldeth UP0I1 mens 
 medii : Others among' ihereeer- . • • 1 
 tiers, that no more than the belief VariOUS Capacities, educati- 
 on Ptii', and that he is the ons anC l means of kllOWinP. 
 nvrard'.r of cur work*, is abf - \ . r . V 
 johmly necefary rrith that nc- Alld in ium, that 110 more IS 
 cvjjir^tebeexvlHtelylzluve.'. necc flary [Q ^\[ [0 fc e ex . 
 
 plicitly believed , but that 
 Gods Revelations are true •, and that All are Gods Re- 
 velations which the Church propofeth as juch. 
 
 You may take our judgement much from him that 
 cometh neareft to you, whom I have heard you much 
 praife, as moft moderate and judicious, w'*,. DxMJdul- 
 den AnaL fid, L i.c, 5. Lett. 2. p, 53. [ a Divines 
 tc difputing of the receiiuyof points to be believed, do 
 4£ commonly tend tbis way, to denote the Articles of 
 
 " thing 
 
fit) 
 
 u things revealed , the explicite and exprefs belief 
 "whereof, is (as they opine) altogether necefTary t6 
 u all Chriftians. The refolution oi which queftion is 
 " among them fo doubtful and uncertain , as that they 
 <c are in this ( as ft> they are in all things elfe ) di- 
 "ftra&ed and divided into various Opinions: which 
 <c they that care for them, may feek : To me they are 
 " as Nothing, while the Authors of them profefs, that 
 c< they have nothing of Certainty, Yea> to one that 
 " meditateth the matter it felf, laying by all preoccu- 
 u pation, it is moft clearly manifeft, that the Refolutiori 
 u of this queflion is not only unprofitable, that I fay not 
 u pernicious, (as it is handled by Divines^) • but alfo vairi 
 cc and importible. It is unprofitable, becaufe no good ac- 
 <c crueth by it to fouls. Q$* It is pernicious, while Divines 
 "for the moft part afTert, that only One or Two Arti- 
 a cles, yea, ( as fome fay ) no fmgular Article at all, is 
 "necefTary to be believed of all by an explicite faith: 
 " For hence ( however the truth of the matter be ) 
 " the colder Chriftians taking occafion, do little care 
 <c to obtain that degree of Knowledge in the Myfteries 
 " of faith, which they might commodioufly and eafily 
 " attain. It is Jmpoffible , feeing it is Manifeft, that no 
 " particular Rule or Points to. be believed, or Number 
 " of Articles can in this Matter be given or afligned, 
 cc which (hall be wholly common and necefTary to all 
 " Chriftians: For this dependeth on every individual 
 " mans natural capacity, means of inftru&ion, and ail 
 cc the other circumftances of each mans life and difpo- 
 " fition, which are to each man fo fpecial, that we can 
 <c determine of nothing at all that is common to all. 
 
 cc But I handle the Neceflity of points to be Believed 
 cc in a far other fenfe : For the Articles of the Chrifti- 
 <c an faith, which I now call necefTary, I do not at all' 
 " underftand to be f»ch as all and every one muft di- 
 
 D << ftinftly 
 
(34) 
 <c ftin&ly know, or hold by explicite allent ; But I 
 u mean only fuch, the belief of which is accounted 
 u univerfally by the whole Caiholick Church, fo fub- 
 " ftantial and efTential, as that he that will defervedly 
 cc be efteemed, and truly be a member of it, mult needs 
 , ,. "adhere to them all at leaft 
 
 He doth better interpret the di- L , T .. . . • T i n, 
 
 ftinftion of Expiidte and impii- " Implicitely and Indirectly I 
 
 cite on another occafion, in ano- " t hat is, by believing what- 
 
 " foever the holy and Univer- 
 u fal Church doth Catholickly believe and teach as a 
 u Revealed Doctrine and Article of divine faiih. And 
 li therefore he is for that caufe to be removed from 
 <c its Communion and Society, who (hall pertinaciouily 
 " and obflinately deoy the leaft $f them, much more 
 " if he maintain the contrary, while he kjmvetb and 
 "fecth thai it isihe Univerfal fentenceof that Church, 
 " that we muft adhere to ihar as an Article of faith. And 
 " in this fenfe I will henceforth ufe the word Necejjity. 
 
 R. This might have been faid in fewer and plainer 
 words, vfe. That your Divines herein do commonly 
 err, and that pernicioufly, and yet that indeed he is of 
 the fame mind . y*&. that It is impofiible to name the 
 Articles necefTary to be believed explicitely of all, bc- 
 caufe each mans divers capacity, means and circum- 
 flances diverlifie them to each : But thai only this one 
 thing is explicitely to be believed, [That whatsoever 
 the Holy and Univerfal Church doth Catholickly be- 
 lieve and teach as a Revealed Doftrine and Article of 
 faith, is true.3 And therefore that no man muft per- 
 rinaciouily deny any thing which he knoweth the 
 Church fo holdetb. So that nothing is neceftarily 
 to be believed actually and indeed, but Gods and the 
 Churches Vtratky, 
 
 P. Another of ours that cometh as near ycu as 
 rs.,ft, openeth this more fully, Davenfort alias Fr. a 
 
 4( Sanlia 
 
(35) 
 
 SanBa Clara, Be. Nat. Crat. p. 1 1 i, &c. £ " As to 
 " the Ignorance of thofe things that are of neceftity of 
 " Means, or End, there is difference among the Do- 
 " dors : For Soto 4. d, 5. ^.5. er /. dfe iV^zr. $■ Crat. 
 u c. 12. ^ Vega 1.6. c. 20. fnf.Tr id. hold that now 
 " in the Law of Grace there is no more explicite faith 
 " required, than in the Law of Nature, Yea, Vega ib. 
 " & Gabriel z.d.zi. q.i.ar. 3. £r 3. d. 21. q. 2. think 
 " that in the Law of Nature, and in Cafes in the Law of 
 u Grace, fome may be faved with only natural know- 
 " ledge , and that the habit of faith , is not re- 
 " quired. Whom Horantius terms men of great name, 
 '('and will not accufe of herefie. I would this great 
 "mans modefty were more frequent with modern Do- 
 "dors. Yea ; Alvarez, deatix.difp. 56. with others, 
 cC feemethto hold, that to juftification there is not at 
 "all required the knowledge of a fupernatural objed 
 " ( or the fupernatural knowledge of the objed. ) 
 " Others hold, That boih to Grace and Glory is re- 
 " quired an explicite belief of Chriil. Bunav. 3. 
 iC d. 2$ y &c. Others, that ar leaft to falvation is an 
 u explicite belief of the Gofpel or of Chrift , though 
 "not to Grace or Juftification. And this is common 
 cc in the Schools, as Ferera fhews that followeth it : 
 " And for this Opinion Scot us is cited — But I think he 
 holdeth, that explicite belief of Chrift or the Gofpel, is 
 " not of neceility of means as to Grace or Glory, as 
 " 4. d. 3. q. 4. What is \ lainer than that now — 
 " men may be faved without the explicite belief of 
 
 "Chrift- And I plainly think its Scetu/s and 
 
 " the common opinion, which Pfega followeth, and. 
 " her 4. d.i. and Tetigiam \ 
 " Thomifts Barnes 2. . Ye;., 
 
 " the Trent Council, feemeth to favour it, Sejf. 6.C.4. 
 
 " — —p. 114. SoCcrdfd^a^ Medina^ Bradwardine. 
 
 D 2 "(& zAnd 
 
cc £?* Aadfuch ( as have no explicite faith in Chrift ) 
 cc are not formally without the Church, This way go 
 " Vi&vria in 4. Relctt. 4. tit* Richard dc Villa wed. 3. 
 "25. a. S.*.i r &c. 
 
 c<m Well faith Tctigianisz.d. 35. q.i.a.g. that if 
 cc there were a fimple old woman to whom fume falfe 
 " Opinion were preached by a falfe Prophet ( e.g. that 
 c< the fubftance of Bread remaineth with the body of 
 " Chrift in the Sacrament ) and fhe believe it : Doth 
 
 <c fhe fin by this? No. — p. 119. Yea, if fhe fo 
 
 "err through piety, thinking that the Church fo be- 
 
 " lieveth, perhaps fhe fhould merit, p. 720. For 
 
 " my part I think that the Vulgar committing themfelves 
 " to the inftruftion of the Paftors, trufting of their 
 " knowledge and goodnefs, if they be deceived, it will 
 cC be taken for invincible ignorance , or at leaft pro- 
 <c bable, ( as Herera ) which excufeth from fault!* 
 
 "nefs. Yea, fome Doctors give fo much to the 
 
 u Inftrudion of Paftors , that have the care of the 
 " Sheep , that if they fhould teach , that fl$» hie & 
 " nunc God would be hated, the rude Parifhioner were 
 
 "bound to believe him : which yet I think falfe 
 
 u p. 123. It feemeth at this day to be the common 
 cc judgement of the Schools and Divines, that the Laity 
 u erring with their Do&ors or Paflors are altogether 
 u excufed from all fault • {r> Yea, oft times fo mate- 
 rnally erring do merit for the aft of Chriftian obedi- 
 "ence which they owe their Paftors : as you may fee 
 "in Talent. To. 3. difp. i. a. 2. p. 5. and others. So 
 <c Angles 2.d.22.q. 2. dub. 7. Vafqu. p. 2. difp. 1 2 1. 
 "In cafe they never doubted of the Veracity of their 
 " Prelates 
 
 Much more faith Santta Clara there, to prove that 
 the ignorant Protectants here may befaved ; citing fur- 
 ther CO his end, Zanchez^in Dtral. 1.2. c. 1. ;;. 8. Alph. 
 
 a. / rtflro. 
 
k?7/ 
 
 aCaftrOj Simanca^ Argon, Tanner , Faber, Eman r .fa, 
 Ro^elL And out of Argon tells us when Faith is furfici- 
 ently propofed, viz.. £ tc When faith is fo confirmed 
 " by Reafons, holinefs of life, the confutation of the 
 " contrary errors, and by fome figns, as that Reafon it 
 (C felf begiitneth prudently to prefcribe , that ^ the mat- 
 " ters of faith heard are to be believed > and the con- 
 (C trary Seft is falle. 3 p. 125. 
 
 " And probl, 26. p. 127. Whether men may be 
 cc blamelefly ignorant of the Law of Nature and the 
 u Decalogue ? The common opinion is that they may 5 
 <c not of the firit principles, but 1. Of the eafie conclu- 
 <c fions for fome time, and of the remoter conclufions 
 c< for a longer time : Such are the Commandments of 
 u the Decalogue as to the fubftance of the aft • as in 
 " fome lying, theft, fornication, manflaughter ( in Will 
 cc at Ieafl: ^ &c. 
 
 R. £u. 1 1. But do you think that men may not as 
 invincibly and inculpably be unacquainted with the Au- 
 thority of the Pope and Ro- 
 man Councils or Church, as H-iden. 1. 1. c 9 . p. 169. ^u-^t 
 you fey they may be igno- S^SrffS 
 rant ofChrift, and the Law fempr fomfe in dm ^ir.e 
 
 nfNhmri-? T inft-ance in rhe f ltum nov ' mi « ? S»^ndiu fane 
 or r\acurc t 1 inrtance in une arhhretUY qui fi iam tujufrhodi 
 
 millions of the Abafjlne fidci alium lumini vaturalt tr 
 rnrifl-hnc nrhn fnr ulvwp a WJoni obpofttum & contYari H m 
 
 ^nrntians, wno ior aoove a e f ei „ equaqiia m ^em ad uium 
 thoufand years never heard eiuicndum tftvingU 
 from the Pope or his 
 emiflaries. 
 
 P. That cannot bedenyed 3 For they have not the ne- 
 cefTary means. 
 
 R . How then do you make your Churches propofal 
 to be the necefTary point to be Explicitly believed 
 of all? 
 
 P, We do not mean it of all that will befavecj: For 
 D 3 you 
 
(38) 
 
 you hear that feme may be faved without any ex^licite 
 belief of Chrift. But'we mean it (fail thauW//be in 
 the Church, and be faved there . 
 
 R. But do you not hold and fay , that out of the 
 Church there is no falvation ? 
 
 P. Some fay fo : and fome fay that It is rare out of 
 the Church. 
 
 R. But are the Ethiopian Chriftians out of the 
 Church ? 
 
 P. They are out of the true Church, being Schif- 
 maticks. 
 
 R. Why faid your Author before, that Infidels were 
 not formally out of the Church who are invincibly ig- 
 norant > 
 
 Pi B .1: other Doctors are of another opinion. 
 R. But Chrift is the Saviour of his body : Are not 
 thofe of the Church who are faved, or in a flare of fal- 
 vation ? What he-Id vou of that ? 
 
 P. S'imefay, They are all of the Church : and others 
 that Cbri ft faveth more than his Church : And fome fay, 
 that They are of the Church Regenerate, but not of 
 the Church Congregate. But few own this, becaufe 
 it is your diftindion : as of a viiible and invifible 
 Church. 
 
 R. Qi±. III. Bur above ail, I would know of you, 
 what you mean by the (ZitholickChurch, whofe propofal 
 is neceflary to the being of f ith ? 
 
 P. We mean the Roman Ca holick Church : that is, 
 t h e Pop e and his Sn b ,c Us* 
 
 R. Do you mean the Pope without a General Coun- 
 cil, or a General Council wi.hour the Pope? or only 
 both agreeing and conjunct > 
 
 R. You ta^e advantage of our differences: but thofe 
 do but fhew, that this is no point of faith. Some hold 
 that the Pope alone may ferve : aad fome, that the Pope 
 
 in 
 
\ 39) 
 in a Provincial Council : and fome that a General 
 Council without him : But you heard Veron taketh in 
 the Council, and it is no true Council without the 
 Pope : And therefore the fureft opinion faith, that it 
 muft be both in Concord. 
 
 R. But what is the Vniverfal Church whofe Pradicc 
 is made fufficient inftead of, or without a General 
 Council ? 
 
 P. It is the whole Roman Church real, diflind from 
 the Representative. 
 
 R. Is it the Clergy only, or the Laity only • or muft 
 it be both? 
 
 P. Both, but not equally •, but in their fever al places. 
 
 R. Muft it be All the Church, wkhout any except- 
 ed ? Or only the greater part ? 
 
 P. Thefe are points not agreed of, and therefore not 
 of faith. Some fay that it muft be fo many as that the 
 diflenters be not confiderable. But how many are con- 
 siderable or inconflderable is undetermined. Others 
 fay, It may be the minor part that pra&ife, fo be it the 
 reft do not contradid it, or do contrarily. 
 
 R. I will trouble you with no more fuch queftions , 
 ( though I have a multitude which fhouid be here re- 
 folved ) for I perceive that we muft exped nothing but 
 a Maze of uncertainties and confufion. 
 
 We are next in order to Agree upon our common 
 principles which muft be fnppofed in our following Di- 
 fpute : For they that Agree in nothings are uncapable 
 of difpnting of any thing ; feeing all conclufions of 
 which we doubt, muft be drawn from more evident 
 truths^ of which we are lefs doubtful, and refolved into 
 a conceded Principle. 
 
 D4 PART. 
 
PART II. 
 
 The Trincipl's which Tapifts and Troteftants 
 are agreed in : And therein the full Jufti* 
 fication of all the rroteftants ( f{eligion. 
 
 T 
 
 "^He firfl: common Principle : That we are 
 Men, having Reafon, and Free-will, and 
 Senfe ; whofe Natural way of knowing things 
 fcnfible, is by the perception of our fenfes } 
 
 having noway of greater Certainty. 
 
 R. I take it for a common principle , that we are 
 Men, having Reafon, and Free-will, and Senfe : whofe 
 natural way of Knowing things fenfible, is by the per- 
 ception of our fenfes : And therefore that our rightly 
 conflituted. or found fenfes, with their due media, about 
 their proper obje&s are to be trufted •, being either cer- 
 tain, or we have no certainty. 
 
 P. I know what you intend : I grant it as you 
 exprefs it. 
 
 R. It muft then be granted us, that there is true 
 Bread and Wine in fubftance remaining after the words 
 of the Mafs-Priefts confecration. 
 
 P. Yes : when you can prove, that the confecrated 
 Bread and Wine are the proper objects of fenfe : which 
 We deny ; they being not now Bread andWine. 
 
 R. Is it by the Perception of fenfe that you deny it ? 
 gr by other means ? ' ' 
 
 P. No: 
 
(4i) 
 
 P. No : It is by Faith and Reafon which are above 
 Senfe. 
 
 R. Now you come to deny the Principle which you 
 granted : Senfe is the pcrceiver of its own objetts : No 
 'Faith, no Reafon can perceive them , but by fenfe : 
 And if due fenfation perceive them, and Faith deny 
 them, then Faith denyeth fenfe to be the proper natural 
 ferceiver of its objetls , and our judgement of things 
 fenfible to be fuch as muft: follow that perception. 
 But we muft difpute of this anon, and will not now 
 anticipate it. Only remember, that if you deny fenfe 
 which is the firft Principle, no mortal man is capable 
 of difputing with you, there being no lower principle 
 to which we can have recourfe , and refolve our dif- 
 ferences. 
 
 The fecond Principle : That there is One only God, In* 
 fnite in Being, Power,. Wifdom and Goodnefs j Our 
 Owner, Ruler and Chief Good • Mo ft Holy, 'Jufl and 
 True, and therefore cannot lye ; but is absolutely to 
 be belitved, and trufted, and loved* 
 
 R. I need not repeat it : Do you not Agree with us 
 in this ? 
 
 P. Yes : Heathens ( that are fober ) and Chriftians 
 are agreed in it. 
 
 R. You grant then, that this may be known by them 
 that are no fubjeds of the Pope. Remember anon that 
 we are not to be blamed for Believing God, 
 
 The 
 
Kt* ) 
 
 The third Principle : That the whole frame of Nature 
 within U6 and without us (within our reach ) is the 
 fvgnal Revelation of God and his Will to ynan • called 
 ( Objectively ) The Light and Law of Nature. 
 
 R. I fuppofe that this alfo may p^fs for a common 
 granted Principle. 
 
 P. Yes, as you expreft it : If we agree not of the 
 Light and Law of Nature, we come fhort of Infidels, and 
 meer Natural men. 
 
 R. Obferve then, that we are Juftificd bvyour prin- 
 ciples, for Believing and Trufting Gods Natural Reve- 
 lation. The very firft part of which is made to our 
 fenf's : By Natural Evidence. God (heweth us that 
 Bread is Bread. 
 
 P. Yes : when fenf ■: is found, and objects and media 
 jufr, and God doth not contradict fenfe by fupernatu- 
 ral Revelation. 
 
 The fourth Principle : That Natural Revelation is be- 
 fore fupcr natural , and fenfe before faith , and we 
 are Men ( in order of Nature at leaft ) before we 
 are Chriftians , and the former is fttll prefuppofed 
 to the later. 
 
 R. This alfo T fuppofe is a granted Principle. 
 
 P. It is Td • Bat fee that you raife no falfe confe- 
 quents fr< m it. 
 
 R. I conclude from it, that He that denyeth the pei> 
 ception of fenfe to be the certain way <of Judging of 
 
 things 
 
things fenfible, denyeth all the Certainty of faith > y and 
 fubverteth the very foundations of it : And that we are 
 juftified for our Ailcnting firft to Gods Natural Revelati- 
 ons. It is God that made my fenfes and under ft an ding, 
 and God that made the objebt and media, as Bread and 
 Wine, and therefore God deceiveth me, if I be deceived 
 in taking it for Bread a nd Wine after Confecration. But 
 God is to be. believed, in his fir ft Revelations. 
 
 P. You vainly call Senfacion , and Intellection or 
 Knowledge of things fenfible by the name of Be- 
 lieving. 
 
 R. We will not vainly contend about the Name, if 
 we agree of the Thing : But this leadeth me to ano- 
 ther Principle, 
 
 The fifth Principle : That the Knowledge of things fully 
 fenfible hath more quieting , fatisfying Evidence, 
 than our Belief of fuper natural Revelations alone, ai 
 made to ns by a Prophet or Apoftle : And that where 
 all the found fenfes of all men living do agree about 
 their near and proper fenfible object, there is themoft 
 fatisfying Evidence of all* 
 
 R.X fuppofe that we are all agreed alfo in this principle. 
 
 P. As you word it we are : For our Divines diftin- 
 guifh of Evidence and Certainty : and are fo far from 
 faying that Faith hath more Evidence than Senfe and 
 Knowledge, that it is ordinary with them to fay, that 
 this is the difference between Faith and Knowledge, and 
 that faith hath not Evidence : but yet it hath no lefs 
 certainty. 
 
 R. Some men life words firfl: to fport themfelves' 
 out of their underflandings , and then to ufe others 
 
 to 
 
(44; 
 
 to the fame game. Evidence is nothing but the Tcr- 
 ceptibility or Cognofcibility of a tiling : by which we 
 call it Knowable ; which is the Immediate necefTary 
 qualification of an Objetl oi Knowledge. Certainty is 
 either Objective, which is nothing but this fame Cog- 
 nofcibility or Evidence as in a Satisfying degree : Or 
 it is Subjective or ACtive, which is nothing but the In- 
 fallible or Trite , and quieting fatisfuCiory knowledge 
 of a Truth. Where the Certainty of Objetl and Act 
 concurr : For no man can be certain of a lye or un- 
 truth : For to be Certain , is to be certain that it is 
 True : Thofe therefore would befool the world , who 
 would perfwade men, that a clear and confident per- 
 ception of an untruth, or confident error, is Certain- 
 ty. There may be Objective Truth and Certainty of 
 the Matter , where there is not in us an Active or 
 Subjective Certain Knowledge of it : But there can 
 be no Active Certainty of an Obtitive Uncertainty, 
 or certain Knowledge of a lye. Now if you mean 
 that faith hath Ob.ettive Certainty without Evidence of 
 Certainty, or Afcertaining Evidence ■ , that is, but to 
 fay and unfay i It hath Certainty and no C €rta * nt y : 
 For this C crt ^ nt y ' dn & Evidence is all one. But if you 
 mean that Faith hath an Active Subjective Certainty 
 without an Objective Certainty in the Matter, you fpeak 
 p\\ impoili'oility and contradiction j a> if you faid, [ / 
 clearly fee a thing invifnde or without light. J 
 
 P, Do you think that our Divines knew not what tlu-y 
 faid, when thev fay that to believe without Evidence 
 nukeih faith mentor torn f 
 
 R. The old afferters of this meant the fame that 
 Chrift meant, when he faith to Thowat [B'cfjcd are they 
 that have not feen, and yet have believed.^] There is a 
 fenfible Evidence, and an Intelligible Evidence, Faith 
 hath not an Immediate fen felc Evidence * that is, we be- 
 
 licvq 
 
(45 ) 
 lieve things anfeen, and above kn(c : And this is their 
 ; meaning-/ We fee not God, Ghrift, Heaven, Angels, 
 ffc. But faith hath alwaies Intelligible Evidence of 
 Ferity . and (as our Mr. R.Hooker faith ) can go no 
 further than it hath fuch Evidence. 
 
 However, I appeal to any that have not been difputed 
 out of their wits, whether, If Gcd would give us as full 
 a fight of Heaven and Hell, and Angels and BlefTed 
 fouls, as we have of the Bread and Wine before us, and 
 as full a Hearing of all that they fay, in juftification of 
 Holinefs, or Lamentation of fin, and as full fenfible ac- 
 quaintance with the world we go to, and cur title to 
 it, as we have with this world, I fay, whether this wouid 
 not be more afcertaining and fatisfa&ory to us, and ba- 
 nifh all doubts, more than our prefent faith doth ? I 
 love not to hear men lie as for God, and talk and boaft 
 againft their experience, as if the intereft of faith re- 
 quired it. Things revealed to faith Are Certain and 
 Infallible. But that is becaufe we have certain evidence 
 i . That Cod cannot lie » 2. And that God revealed them . 
 and fo that they are True. But if we did fee, feel, tafie, 
 dcd we fhould be more certain. Elfe why is it faid, 
 that we now know but enigmatically and as in aglafs^ 
 and as children-, but hereafter Jliall fee as face to face , 
 and know as we are known, when faith is done away y 
 as being more Imperfect than Intuition. We have evi- 
 dence to prove, that the Revelation made to David, 
 Ifaiah, Jeremiah, l Pctir, Paul, &c. were of God, and 
 that their words are by us to be believed, &c. But to 
 fee, hear, talk, feel, &c. would be a more quieting Af- 
 furancc. 
 
 Therefore when all the found fenfes of all men liv- 
 ing, perceive after confecration, that there is Bread and 
 Wine, this Certaimy is, i . in order antecedent to that of 
 faith) and 2* by Evidence, more fat is fy ing and affuring 
 
than that of meer faith, as to a prophets Revelation -, 
 And therefore to rejed it on pretence of faith , is a fub- 
 verfion of o } \ natural methods of afTurance . and is but 
 pretended, I think, by your felves. 
 
 The fixth Principle. That except thofe Immediate In- 
 fpirations which none but the Jnfpired do Immediately 
 and clearly perceive^ we have no Revelations from 
 God, but by fignes ; which are created beings ^ and 
 have their feveral Natures, and fo may be called 
 Phy fical , though fignifying Moral things . And thus 
 far our natural and fupematural Revelations agree. 
 
 K. Every being is either "Uncreated f which is God 
 only) or Created (in a large fen fe, that is Caufed:) 
 What God Revealed to Chrift, Peter, Paul, &c. we 
 have knowledge of, but by fignes : In Scripture thefe 
 fignes are Words : Thefe words fignifie partly the mind 
 of Cjod, and the fpeakers or writers, and partly the 
 matter fpoken or written. When it is fuid, that It is 
 impoffible for God to lye, it can mean nothing to us, but 
 that it is impoffible that God fbould make us a deceit- 
 ful fign of his will. The voice of an Angel, Prophet, 
 Apoftle, a thoufand Miracles, ore. are but fignes of the 
 matter and of Gods will: And if God can ordinarily 
 make faife natural fignes, we are left unafiured that he 
 cannot make faife fignes by an Angel, or a Prophet, or a 
 Miracle. And fo all faith is left uncertain. 
 
 P. Then you will make God a lyar or deceiver when- 
 ever any man is deceived by natural fignes. 
 
 R. Not fo : For men may deceive :hemfe!ves by ta- 
 king thofe for fignes of a thing which are none, and 
 fo by m fonder fan ding them. And the Devil and bad 
 
 men 
 
(47) 
 men may promote this deceit. JBut whenever Godgiv- 
 eth man fo pLiia af:n of the Matter and his Will, as 
 that no errour of an a-nfonyidfenfe^ zxiunqus'ified object^ 
 a culpable or diieakd fantafie or 7«ff//fc^(hiterveneth, 
 then Bf we are deceived it can be none but God that 
 doth deceive us -, which cannot be, becaufeher^wf lye. 
 And as it is an unrefiftible argument againft the Domini- 
 can doctrine of Phyftcal Predetermination as abfolutely 
 necefTary to all alls of natural or free agents, that If God 
 phyjically predetermine every lyar to ivery lye, that is 
 mentally conceived or uttered, then we have no certainty 
 but he might do fo by the Prophets and Apo files ; fo is it 
 as good an argument againft Papifts, that if he ordina- 
 rily deceive the fenfes of all found men by a falfe ap- 
 pearance of things feeming fenfible, he may do fo alfo 
 by the audible or legible words of a prophet. 
 
 The feventh Principle. That he that will confute fen fe y 
 and prove that we jhould not Judge actor ding to its 
 perceptions , mufc prove it by fome more certain evi- 
 dence that contraditleth it. 
 
 R. I fuppofe you will not queftion thi?. 
 
 P. No : The word or Revelation of God is a more 
 certain evidence. 
 
 R. How know you that there is any word of Cod y 
 but by vour fenfes ? 
 
 P. But yet by fenfe I may get a certainty which is 
 above that of things fenfible. As I know by the world 
 that there is a God, by a certainty above that of fenfe. 
 
 R. i . If that were fo, yet if things fenfible be your 
 media, you deftroy your Conclusion by denying them, 
 and undermine your own foundation. 
 
 2. But 
 
2* But it is not true : The knowledge of the Con- 
 clufion can be no ftronger than that of the pirincU 
 pies, even of the weaker of them. If you are in any 
 uncertainty whether there be Sun, Moon, Heaven^ 
 Earth, Man, Beaft, Heat, Cold or any Created fenfible 
 being, you muft needs be in as much doubt whether there 
 be a God that made them. 
 
 The eighth Principle. That Believing or AfTenting is 
 Intelle&ion of the Truth of fomething revealed, and 
 therefore muft have Intelligible Evidence of Truth in 
 the thing believed. 
 
 R< I know that Affiance or Trufi as it is the act of the 
 W:ll, repofing it felf quietly on the Believed fidelity of 
 God, is not Intellection. But the Affenting ad is an 
 Intcllettion or an Act of Knowledge of a Verity ; not as 
 Science is narrowly confined to principles, but as Know- 
 ledge is taken in gen ere for notitia. So to believe is 
 no other than to know that this is true^ becaufe God 
 faith it* Joh. 6.69. We believe and are fare that thou art 
 that Chrift, &c. Joh. 3.2. We know that thou art a 
 Teacher come from God } for no man could do fuch 
 Works^&c. Joh. 21.24. We know that his teftimoity 
 is true — See Rom. 7.14. & 8.28. 2 Cor. 5. 1* 
 We know that if this earthly houfe, &c 1 Tim. 1. 8. 
 1 Joh. 5. 2. Joh. 8. 28, 32. 1 Cor. 15. 58. We know 
 that our Labour is not in vain^ &-c. Therefore your 
 denying the certainty where. the evidence ismoft noto- 
 rious and telling men of Meriting if they will but be- 
 lieve your Church, without any Evidence of certainty, 
 is a meer chca:* 
 
 The 
 
(49) 
 
 The ninth Principle. That Jefius Chrifi is the Son of 
 God And the Saviour of the World, and that Chrifiia- 
 nity is the true Religion, and Gods appointed fufficient 
 way to Heaven, including Godlinefs, which is its fi- 
 nal part. 
 
 R* By Chriflianity I mean both our Believing, Lov- 
 ing and obeying Chrifi as the way to the Father, and 
 our Believing, Loving and Obeying God our Father, as 
 the end of Chrifts Mediation : The Knowledge of God 
 and the Mediator being Eternal Life, Joh. 17. 3. And 
 as Taking a man for my Phyficion, is taking him, by his 
 .medicines to help me to my health, and fo Health is fi- 
 nally included* fo taking Chrift for my Saviour, is to 
 take him by faith to be the means of bringing me to the 
 Love of GWand to Glory : And fo I include Godlinefs 
 in Chriflianity, and the Law of Nature in the Law of 
 Grace. 
 
 P. We are agreed on the truth of this ; but not of 
 the medium by which it muft be made known to us. 
 
 R. At the prefent I ask no more than that we agree in 
 Chriftianity as the true and fufficient Religion and way 
 to life. 
 
 The tenth Principle. That Baptizing is our Ckriftw- 
 ing i And that all that are truly Baptized are £hri- 
 ftiansj and mem for s of the vifible Church, unt ill they 
 Apofiatize or arejufily excommunicate {at leafi.) 
 
 PA 
 
(50; 
 
 P. I grant you all this as a common Principle with 
 Chriftians. 
 
 R. Then you grant us, i. That our Religion is the 
 True Religion - 9 of Gods appointment, fufficient to fal- 
 vation : For it is Ckriflianity, which you confeffed to be 
 fuch. 2. You grant that we are baptized into the true 
 Catholick Church, which is the bodv cf Chrift. 
 
 The eleventh Principle. That all that are truly Bap- 
 tizedhave the pardon of all their (ins, and have prefcnt 
 right to falvation if they fo die. 
 
 R. I mean, that they that are Internally true Confent- 
 ers to the baptifmal Covenant , and are baptized, have all 
 thefe benefits of Baptifm : And that Infants have them 
 as rightly dedicated to God and baptized : Do not you 
 Content to this ? 
 
 P. Yes, you km w we do. 
 
 R. Then you fully grant, that all among the Prote- 
 ftantswhoin Infancy or at age are truly baptized are 
 in a ftate of falvation : Why then would you make peo- 
 ple believe that there is no falvation in our Churches, 
 when you grant the right to all that are Baptized. 
 
 P. But you are not Baptized by lawful Minifters. 
 
 R. Take heed what you fay : Your party holdeth 
 that even Schifmaticks and Hereticks Baptifm is valid, 
 if they have all that is eilential to Baptizing in the do- 
 ing of it : Yea that a lay mans, or womans baptizing is 
 valid. If you deny it, I will fhame you, by producing 
 the common confen&of your Dv&ors •, and your cenfure 
 
 of 
 
f 50 
 
 of Cyprian, and making the contrary do&rine to be a 
 Herelie. 
 
 P. But you have not all that is eflential to Baptifm, 
 becaufe you are not intentionally Baptized, into the true 
 Catholick Roman Church : Fur while you are not fub- 
 jed to the Pope, you are not baptized into the Church : 
 and therefore Bcllarmine fheweth that indirectly we are 
 obliged to the Pope by baptifm j which you intend not. 
 
 R. Come, come, ftrive not againft your knowledge. 
 
 1. If our Baptifm have not all that is efTential, why 
 do you never rebaptize Proteftants when they turn to 
 you? Do you not find that you condemn your felves ? 
 
 2. Why do not you your felves put the name of the 
 Pope into your words of baptifm ? 3. Doth your Tra- 
 dition tell you that the ancient Churches did baptize 
 men into a fubjedion to the Pope ? 4. Did any of the 
 Primitive Chriftians baptize men into the name or fnb- 
 jettion of Peter or any Apoftle ? 5. Doth not Paul 
 expreily renounce it as to himfelf and Peter, 1 Cor. i c 
 12, 13, 14, 15. Every one of yen faith, I am of Paul, 
 and 1 of Apollo, and I of Cephas, and J of Chrifi : Is 
 Chrifi divided ? Was Paul Qrmified for yon ? or were ye 
 baptized in the name of Paul, &c . 6. Did not Chrifl: 
 himfelf tell us all that was Eflential to baptifm in his in- 
 ftitution, ajfrfatth. 28 without making any mention of 
 Peter or the Pope ? 
 
 P* I cannot deny but our doctrine inferreth that all 
 that are baptized among you have a true Sacrament, but 
 not the Benefit of it, and fo are not in a ftate of pardon 
 and falvation : Or at Ieaft when you come to age, by re- 
 fufing the Pope, you turn Hereticks and lofe it. 
 
 R. I know fome of your divided writers fay that we 
 have Sacramentptm, but not Rem Sacramenti : But 
 1. You fay that a Character is imprinted by Baptifm, 
 and all fin done away, and the perfon in a ftate <tf life,un- 
 
 E % fefs 
 
C52) 
 
 lefs he come feignedly ^ which you will not charge on 
 Infants, nor can you prove it by thofe of the Anabaptifls 
 themfdves that are baptized at age. And faith Aquinas 
 when the fldion ceafeth, the fruits of baptifm are ob- 
 tained. 2. And it will be long ere you will prove that to 
 be baptized into the name of the Trinity is uneffedual, 
 if we leave out the Pope. 3 . And you will hardly make 
 a man underftand what you mean by the validity of the 
 Baptifm of Hereticks and Schifmaticks, if it neither take 
 the Baptized into the true Vilible Church, nor the inviii- 
 ble (' or a flate of faving grace ). 
 
 And as to Infants lofing it as you fay at age by Herefie. 
 1 . Will you fave all the Anabaptifls, that are baptized at 
 age ? If their baptifm put them into a flate of falvation, 
 and they continue jufl of the fame faith and mind that 
 they were baptized in, fure that faith which put them 
 in a flate of falvation, will keep them in it ^ or not be 
 damning through dcfedivenefs to morrow, which made 
 them heirs of Heaven to day. But you cannot make 
 your dodrines hang together. 2. And they that are 
 Baptized in Infancy are baptized into the fame faith 
 which they continue in at age. The Minifler intendeth 
 no other : The Parents, Sponfors, arc. intend no 
 other: And will that prove defective even to Salvation 
 after, which was faving then } 3 . If Baptifm make us 
 Chriftians • and if Chrifiianity be the true Religion , 
 fufficient in fuo genere to falvation, then we that con- 
 tinue in the Qnifiianity which we were baptized into, 
 by your confeflion continue in the true faving Religion:, 
 And this is aU our Religion. 
 
 P. It is not every one that owneth Chrifiianity that 
 frail be faved : Hereticks own it in general, and yet 
 contradid it by their Herefie?. 
 
 F. It is every one that truly owneth Qoriftianity in 
 mind and will that (hall be fayed : elfe Chrifiianity 
 
 were 
 
(53) 
 were not a faving fufficient Religion : The queftion is 
 not whether objective foriftianity or faith be fufficient 
 to fave him that believeth not, or is not fubjellively a 
 Chriftian -, nor whether the dotlrine of faith be fuffi- 
 cient in omni genere : But whether it be a fufficient do- 
 ctrine, or eb ettive faith, in fito genere ? If a Heretic^ 
 deny any elTential part of it, he believeth not that which 
 he ( really, underfhndingly and prevalently ) denyeth. 
 It is but the Name of ftriftianity, and not the Thing, 
 which he owneth, who difowneth any ot the effrnce. 
 Our queftion is now whether our profeffed ob ecbive 
 Faith be trite and fufficient . ? When you come ro prove us 
 heretical denyers of any of its efTaice, we- will give you 
 a fufficient anfwer. 
 
 The twelfth Principle. That the Effe nee of our Religi- 
 on or Chriftianity as Active and Saving, is Faith that 
 worketh by Love : Orfuch a Belief in Cjod the Fa- 
 ther, Son and Holy Ghofi, as is accompanied with a 
 true devoting of our fe Ives to him, by Love and wil- 
 lingnefs to obey his Laws, fo far as we know them ; 
 in oppojition to the temptations of the world, the flejh 
 and the Devil : And he that ps truly fuch fhatt be 
 faved. > 
 
 P. I grant that he that truly Loveth God, fhall befa- 
 ved : But a Proteftant cannot truly love God, becaufe 
 he hath not true faith . 
 
 R. Do you not agree and confefs then, that If any 
 Proteftants do truly Love God, and are fmcerely willing 
 to obey his will, and to know it that they may obey it, 
 fuch are of the true Religion and fhall be faved, and that 
 popery which denyeth their falvation is falfe ? 
 
 E 3 P. If 
 
(54) 
 
 1\ If your falfc fuppofition were true, thefe falfe/ 
 conftquents would be true : But you are all deceived 
 when you think that you fincerely Love God, and are 
 willing to know and do his will. 
 
 R> i. Let all Protectants note this firft, that you grant 
 that none but 3$* faljhearted Hypocrites, that are not 
 what they profefs to be, and Love not God, nor would 
 cbey him , fhould turn Papifts. 
 
 2. And if a man cannot know his own A4indand\Vill, 
 what he Lovethznd what he is willing of, no not about 
 his End and great eft concernments, how can he know 
 when he Believeth aright ? Why do you trouble the 
 World thus with your noife about Believing the Propofals 
 of your Church, if a man cannot know whether he be- 
 lieve or not f i$> And he that cannot know what he 
 Willeth , Choofeth or Loveth, can no more know what he 
 believeth. For the Atts of the Will are more plenary 
 and eafily perceived. And do all Papifts know their 
 own Hearts or Minds, but no Proteftants ? What 
 would youexpeci but indignation andderifion by fuch 
 arguing as this, if you will go about the world and tell 
 men, £ Ton none of you know your own Minds and 
 wills, but we know them ^ Tou think )'°u Love God, and 
 are Willing to obey him j but you are all miftakgn^ it 
 it not fo with you : but you muft believe our Pope and 
 his Council, and then you way ktww your own minds 
 and hearts!^ They that believe you on thefe rates, de- 
 ferve the deceit of believing you \ and punifli them- 
 felves. 
 
 The 
 
(55) 
 
 The thirteenth Principle. That when fori ft defer ibed all 
 the Effence of Chriftianity, by our Believing in and 
 being baptised into, the name of the Father y the Son 
 and the Holy Ghofl y the Apo files and firfl Paftors of 
 the Churches, in fir tilled people to under fiand the mean- 
 ing of thefe three Articles -, *And the ancient Creed 
 called the Apoftles, is the expofhron of them, as to Be- 
 lief: And that this Creed was of old the fymbolof the 
 true faith, by which men were fnfpofed fufficienxly 
 qualified for baptifm, and diftinguifiwd from Here- 
 ticks : which after was enlarged by occafwn of here- 
 fas to tVe fflictne aha fonft 'antinopolit arte Qreed ; To 
 which that call d A than alius'.* was added as a fuller 
 explication of the doctrine of the Trinity : And he 
 that believed all thefe, was taken for one of the true 
 Chriftian Religion, which was fuffcient in fuo genere 
 to falvation* 
 
 P. All that was then Neceffary to be explicitely be- 
 lieved, neceffitate medii, was exprefTed in the Creeds 
 ( if not more ) : But not all that is now neceffary when 
 the Church hath propofed more. 
 
 R, i. Some of you fay., no more is neceflary ut me- 
 dium, but to believe that God is, and that he is a reward- 
 er of them that diligently feek^him : Others fay that 
 the chief articles of the Creed alfo are commonly ne- 
 ceffary : And in your difcord we lay no great weight 
 on your Opinions. 2, But is not Chriflianity the fame 
 Thing now as it was at the beginning ? Is Baptifm 
 altered ? Hath not a foriftian now the fame definition 
 as then ? Are not thrifts promifes and the Conditions 
 theTame ? Shall not he that was a Chriftian then, be 
 
 E 4 faved 
 
faved if he were now alive ? May not we be Qiriftians, 
 and faved by the fame (fonflitutive faufes which made 
 rnen Qhriflians, and faved them in the primitive (fhur- 
 ches ? Subvert not Chriftianity, and confound not the 
 Church, and cheat not poor fouls, by labouring to hide 
 the ejjence of (hrifliamty, and fuch plain important 
 truths. You cannot deny our faith to be true , without 
 condemning the ancient Church and Chriftianity it felf : 
 While we aloud profefs that the Chriflian faith ex- 
 plained in all the ancient Creeds, is the faith which we 
 own, in its EfTentials explicated. 
 
 The fourteenth Principle. That the Books which the 
 Proteftants commonly receive as Canonical Scriptures, 
 are in the agt eeing Original Copies, as to the very 
 Words, and in true Tranfations at to the fence , the 
 mofl true Infallible word of God, 
 
 R. I grant that where the Copies dif agree by various 
 Readings, we are no more fure that any of them is the 
 word of God, than we are fure, that fuch a Copy is 
 righter than all that differ from it. But as long as the 
 efftnee of Chriflianity on which our Salvation is laid, 
 is in the Covenant of Grace, explained in Crcdendis 
 in the [reed, and in Petendus, in the Lords Prayer, snd in 
 Agendis in the Decalogue as explained by Chrifl. 
 And no one Duty or material do&rine of our Religion 
 dependethon the various Lettions, but thofe texts that 
 Agree are fufficient to eftablifh them all ^ yea, as Franc. 
 /? SanEla- Clara fyflem. fid, proferTeth, the ordinary 
 Tranfia'ions fo agree, as that no material point of Re- 
 ligion doth depend on any of their differences •, It is as 
 much as we affert, t v at the Agreeing Original Copies r 
 
 and 
 
(57; 
 
 and the found Tranflations, fo far as they are fuch, 
 are the True Infallible word of God • the former both 
 as to words and fence, and the later as to fence alone. 
 Do you not grant this ? 
 
 P. We grant the Scripture as you fay to be Gods 
 Infallible word ^ But i. You cannot know it to be fo, 
 becaufe you take it not on the Roman Churches Autho- 
 ritative Propofal ^ 2. And you leave out part of it. 
 
 R. i . Whether we can know it, (hall be tryed in due 
 place. 2. And whether we have All of it, or enough, 
 is another queftion, to be debated when you will. You 
 grant us exprefly that which we now defire ^ which is 
 the Infallible Truth of our Canonical Scripture. And 
 this is All our Religion, containing not only the EJfenti- 
 als, but all the Integrals, and Accidentals needful to be 
 recorded. So that All the Protefiants Religion is con- 
 fejfedto be Infallibly True. 
 
 And from hence further note, that in all our difputes, 
 you are obliged to be the defendants, as to Truth : For 
 we deny the Truth of much of your Religion, but you 
 deny not the Truth of one word of ours : but only the 
 Plenitude or Sufficiency. 
 
 P. The name of a Proteftant was never known till 
 Luther s time : And the occaflon of it was a particular 
 Proteftation of the German Princes, and not dire&Iy a 
 Vrote fling againft Ropery. 
 
 R. It is not Names but Religion which we difpute of. 
 And it is that which each party Profejfeth to be their 
 Religion* Therefore you muft take our Profejfion or 
 you change the fubjcclof the difpute. And we frofcfi, 
 that the Law of Nature ( which no fober man quefti- 
 oneth ) and the Script ures,zxt All our Religion. There- 
 fore if you pleafe you fhall fuppofe that the name Pro- 
 teflantwerz not now in the world : It doth not fignific 
 our Religion. But we now ufe it to fignihe our Protcft- 
 
(53) 
 ing dgahtft Popery) or that we agree in fubftance^ and 
 iii rejecting Popery, with thofe that made that particular 
 Proteftation mentioned by you. 
 
 Names are oft given from accidents j as Africans , 
 GcrmanicM, Britannic tu, &c. to feveral Roman Cap- 
 tains • when yet their Humanity was the fame before 
 they were fonamtd. 
 
 P. Turks, Socinians, Quakers, crc Protcft againfl: 
 Popery : It feems then they are Protectants too • and 
 your companions. 
 
 R, i. Thus fome men ftudy to deceive, by turning 
 from the queftion to another. Ourqueftion I tell you 
 is Whether the Religion of the Proteftants be Infallible * 
 and not, Whence is their name ? 2. But by a Proufvani 
 we mean only one that taketh the Scripture for the Rule, 
 and foriflianity for the Ejfence of his Religion : Which 
 no one doth that denyeth any effential part of ir. If 
 we do fo, prove it, and you ihall have our anfwer. 
 How da you judge of any man among your felves that 
 taketh Gods word propofed by your Church for his Re- 
 ligion, and yet miftaketh the Church in any point: As 
 Burandm that thought the matter of Bread continues, 
 whom Be liar mine yet denyeth to be an Heretic k. So is 
 it with anv among us that miftake the fence of Scripture 
 in fome fuch poim. 
 
 When a Name is put upon any pcrfon or party from 
 a common accident, you may if you will call all by that 
 name which that accident agreeth to : And fo Pafifts are 
 called by fome Non-conformifts now in England, becaufe 
 they Conform not ; But the world knoweth well enough 
 that it is Proteftants which are commonly meant by that 
 ~*me, and not Papifts, Quakers S\ckers, orr- though 
 
 fe conform not. And fo vou may fay if it pleafe 
 
 r felf that Turks, Jews, Hcaihens, Socinians, Qua- 
 
 >, Ranters, are Proteftants^ becaufe they Prctcft 
 
 againft 7 
 
againfi^or reject Popery : But the world knoweth who 
 is meant by the Name, JLvenfcbriftians rejctling proper 
 Popery, 
 
 And for my part, I deal openly with you, I care not if 
 the name Proteftantwerz utterly call: aiide • If any man 
 be fo deceived by it as i , Either to think that it flgnifieth 
 the Efiexce of our Religion ( unlefs you mean as we 
 Protejl for Chriftianity. ) 2. Or that we take thofe 
 called Proteftants for the whole Catholick^Charch, they 
 make it an occafion of their own deceit : Names of di- 
 ftin&ion are ufed, becaufe men know not elfe readily 
 how to fpeak intelligibly of one another without circum- 
 locutions : And then cometh the Sectarian, and taketh 
 his Party, for all the Church ( at fealt which he may 
 lawfully Communicate with), and the name of his party 
 to notifie his Religion, And then comes the crafty Pa- 
 pift, and pretends from hence that fuch a named Religi- 
 on is new • and asketh you, where was there any fe. g.) 
 Proteftants before Luther ? 
 
 My Religion is naked Chriftianity, the fame as is 
 where the name of a Proteftam is not known, and as was 
 before it was known ^ and as if the name of the Pope 
 had never been known. But now the Pope and his Mo- 
 narchical Vfurpation over all the world, are rifen and 
 known, I am one of thofe that proteft againft them, as 
 being againft Chriftianity which is my Religion 5 But fo 
 as to addict my felf to the opinions of no man or party 
 that oppofeth them, wholly and abfolutely and beyond 
 evidence of truth : I take the Reformed Churches, to 
 be the foundeft in the world : But I take their Conferli- 
 ons to be all the Imperfect expreflions of men •, and the 
 Writings of Proteftant Divines to be fome more clear 
 and found, and fome more dark, empty, and lefs found, 
 and in many things I differ from many of them. Choofe 
 now whether you will call me a Proteftant or not ^ I 
 
 tell 
 
(6o) 
 
 tell you my Religkn , which is firnple Chrifliamty : 
 Names are at your own Will. I could almoft wifh 
 that there were no name known befides that of CHRI- 
 STIAN as notifying our faith and Religion^ in the 
 Chriftian world ("Though as notifying Herejie and 
 fin y there muft be proper names , as in Rev. the name 
 Nicolaitans is ufed ). Even the word Catholic!^ had 
 long a narrower fenfe in the Empire with many than 
 I now own it in. Though as it fignifieth One that is 
 of the Church Vniverfal, loveth Vniverfalty all true 
 ChriftianSy and hath Communion with them in Faith, 
 Love, and Hope, fo I like it, and am A CATHO- 
 LICK CHRIST I A N. I difpute for nothing 
 elfe ^ I perfwade this perfon here in Doubt, to no- 
 thing elfe-, but i. To hold fail to true and meer Chrifti- 
 anity^ 2. To Reject all in Popery or any other Sed 
 that is Evidently again ft it j 3. To fufpend his belief 
 of all thats doubtful*, and to receive nothing as a part of 
 Divine faith or Religion-, till he be fure that indeed it 
 is of God. 
 
 And now thefe Principles being fuppofed, let us pro- 
 ceed, and try whether Popery be of God or not. 
 
 PART, 
 
(«) 
 
 PART III. 
 
 The (prrteftants (Reafons againjl Popery. 
 
 D. "y Have heard what you have faid in ftating the 
 Protefiants Religion : I now exped: to hear 
 what Reafons yon have againfl that which yon 
 call Popery : And afterwards that you prove 
 all that you charge upon it. But I adjure you firft that 
 you fay nothing but what you believe in your confer- 
 ence to be the truth, as one that looketh to be judged 
 for it. 
 
 R. With many Papifts confident and vehement pro- 
 teftations go inftead of Arguments , and we oft hear 
 them fay, |~ If this be not true, I am content to be 
 torn in a thoufand pieces : We will feal it with our 
 blood : We will lay . our falvation on it : And do yon 
 think* we have not fouls to fave ? &c.~] k Which is 
 much like as if they would end all Controversies by lay~ 
 ing Wagers that they are in the right, o* by protefting 
 that they are honefier and credibler men than their 
 adversaries : And it is no more than a Quaker or 
 other fuch Se&ary will fay : the moft proud and igno- 
 rant being ufually the moft confident : But yet though 
 I exped not that you fhould receive any thing from 
 me, upon Protefiations, but upon Proofs, I will here pro- 
 mife you that I will charge nothing on the Papifts, but 
 what in my Confcience I am verily perfwaded to be 
 srue. 
 
 The 
 
(62) 
 
 The Reafon.s which refolve me againft Popery are thefe 
 andfuch like. 
 
 I. Reafon, Their Doctrine of Tranfubftantiation is 
 fo notorioufy falfe and inhumane, even contrary to the 
 fuijeft afcertaining evidence that mankind can exped 
 en earth, ( viz.. for all men on pain of damnation to 
 believe, that there is no Bread, and no Wine, when all 
 the founded: fenfes of any men in the world, do perceive 
 Bread and Wine, by feeing it , tafling it, feeling it, 
 fmellmg it, and by the notorious ejfetls ; and all this 
 built upon no Revelation of God, no Reafon at all, nor 
 any true confent of the Primitive Church , but clean 
 contrary to them all ; ) that I iblemnly profefs, that I 
 find if an utter Impojfibility to believe it : And it often 
 puts me to a doubt, Whether it be poffible for any mor- 
 tal man unfeignedly and fully to believe it, and Whe- 
 ther there be really any fuch Papift in the world I or 
 Whether moft do not for carnal refpe&s take on them 
 to believe it, when they do not •, or rather the Vulgar 
 underftand their words, as not really excluding the true 
 being of Bread and Wme ^ and the reft only fomewhat 
 overawing their own reafon with a reverence of their 
 Church, fo far as not to contradict, or fo far as nati- 
 onally to own it, when they do not from the heart be- 
 lieve the thing. 
 
 So many contradictions, abfurdities, and impieties are 
 to be by them believed with it, that I am furenoman 
 that underftandeth them, canpollibly believe them all. 
 
 And all this muft be done by Miracles, fupendious 
 miracles, daily or common miracles , which every 
 Prufl can do a. his plcafure, and never fail , fober or 
 drunken, greater than raifing a man from the dead $ fo 
 
 that 
 
that every beaftly, fordid, ignorant Prieft, (hall do more 
 miracles by far, than ever Jefus Chrift did in all his life 
 on earth, as far as ive know by the holy Records, ( if 
 he live as long J). He that can believe all this, may next 
 believe, that there is neither Earth under his feet, nor 
 the Firmament over his head, nor Water, nor Air, nor 
 any other Creature, and that he hath no being himfelf. 
 
 1 1. Reafon : The Faith or Religion of the Papifts, 
 as defcribed by themfelves, is fo far from Infallibility, 
 as that it is utterly uncertain, unintelligible, and meer 
 contradiction and confulion » 'and a changeable thing j 
 fo that no man knoweth whether he have it or not, 
 and whether he have it all •, But whoever hath it, he 
 hath certainly a hodge-podge of truth and falihood. 
 
 III. Reafon. Their Papacy, which efTcntiateth their 
 Church, is a horrid Ufurpation of Chrifts own Prero- 
 gative, and of an Office to do that which is incompa- 
 parably above the Natural Power or Capacity of any 
 mortal man •, even to be the Apoftle and Governour of 
 the whole world ( of Chriftians at leaft ) • To take 
 Charge of all the fouls on earth . to teach and call thofe 
 that are uncalled, and to Rule thofe that are baptized ': 
 even at the Antipodes, and in all thofe unknown or in- 
 accefTible parts of the world, which he hath no know- 
 ledge of: A far more arrogant undertaking, than to be 
 the Civil Monarch of ail the earth ; and utterly im- 
 poflible for him to perform, and which never was per- 
 formed by him. 
 
 IV. 
 
(H) 
 
 I V. Reafon. The faid Papacy is an arrogant U- 
 furpation of the Power of all the Chriftian Princes and 
 Pallors upon earth, or of a Power over them, never 
 given by Chrift : It fetteth up a Kingdom in a King- 
 dom, and taketh from Paftors the power which Chrift 
 gave them, over their particular flocks. 
 
 V. Reafon. The faid Papacy is a meer humane Ihfti- 
 tution : They confefs themfelves , that it is not of 
 Divine faith that the Bifhop of Rome is Sr. Peters Sue- 
 ceilbr by Divine Right : It is no article of their own 
 faith : But Hiftory fully afTureth us, that it was but 
 in the Roman Empire, that the Roman Bifhop was made 
 Supream : as the Archbifhop of Canterbury is in En- 
 gland : And that he ftandeth on the fame humane foun- 
 dation as the other four Patriarchs of the Empire did. 
 And that their General Councils were called by the Em± 
 ferours y and were called General only with refped to 
 that Empire. And there never was fuch a thing as a 
 General Council of all the Chriftian world, nor ever 
 can be : And that there never was fuch, is mod noto- 
 rious yet by the Names fubferibed to all the Councils. 
 But they abufe the world, and claim that power over 
 all the Chriftians on earth , which one Prince gave his 
 fubjed- Prelates in his Empire : As if the General Af 
 fembly of Scotland or France fhould pretend to be a 
 General Council of the world y and the Archbifhop o£ 
 Canterbury fhould call himfelf Archbifhop of all the 
 Church on earth, and claim the government of it. 
 
 VI. 
 
f*5) 
 
 V I. Reafon : The faid Papacy hold their claim of 
 Sttpream Government as by Gods anointment ( though 
 they confefs as before faid, that it is not de fide^ that 
 the Poue fucceedeth Peter by Divine right ) and this no- 
 toriously Contrary to the Judgement and Tradition of 
 the far greateft fart of the Churches in the world : 
 General Councils ( fuch as they had ) and the fenfe of 
 the greateft part of Chriftians have determined againft 
 the Papal claime. And Tradition condemneth them 
 to this day, while they plead Tradition, 
 
 VII; Reafon : It is Treafon againft Chrift for the 
 Papifts who are but a Seci^ and not the third part of 
 the Chriftians in the world , to call themfelves the 
 whole (hurch^ and unchurch all the reft, and feek to rob 
 Chrift of the far greateft part of his Kingdom, by de- 
 nying them to be fuch : As if they would deny two 
 third parts of this Kingdom to be the Kings. They are 
 Sectaries and Schifmaticks by this arrogant dividing 
 from all the reft, and appropriating the name and pri- 
 viled^es of the Church to themfelves alone. 
 
 VIII. Reafon: By making an unlawful and 1m- 
 poffible Condition and Center of Church Vnion y they are 
 the greateft Schifmaticks in all the world : The great- 
 eft Dividers of the Church upon pretence ofVnity: 
 As he would be a divider of this Kingdom, who would 
 fet up a Vice-King without the Kings authority, and 
 fay that none that fubjeft not themfelves to him, fhall 
 be taken for fubje&s of the JCing. 
 
 F IX. 
 
I X. Reafon ; They ftudioufly brand themfelves with 
 Satansmark of malice, or uncharitablene fs and cruelty 
 to mens fouls : while they fentence to damnation two 
 third parts of the Chriflian world, becaufe they will 
 not be the fubje&s of their Pope : And they think their 
 way to Heaven is fafeft, becaufe they are bolder than 
 us in damning other Chriftians : Whereas Love is the 
 mark by which Chrifts Difciples mull be known 
 to all. 
 
 X. Reafon : They are inhumanely cruel to mens ho- 
 dies : And this is their very Religion : For the Coun- 
 cil at the Later ane under Innocent the third decreed, that 
 thofe that believe not, or deny Tranfubftantiation are 
 Hereticks, and all Temporal Lords {hall exterminate 
 them from their Dominions : That is, no man fhall be 
 fuffered to live under any Christian Lord, that will not 
 renounce all his fenfes, and profefs that he believeth 
 that they are all deceived by God himfelf •, which is not 
 only to renounce their Humanity, but their Animality 
 or fenfe it felf. So that no men indeed, are to be fuf- 
 fered to live, but only fuch as deny themfelves to be 
 men : What Heathens, what Turks, did ever exerdfe 
 fuch Inhumane fury ? Beiides their burning and torment- 
 ing men as Hereticks that will not do all this and more, 
 and will not fay as they require them. 
 
 X I. Reafon : Their Church indeed is invifble , 
 while they deny ii , and an unknown thing : For, 
 I. Men are forced into it by fuch bloody Laws, as that 
 they cannot rationally be known to be Corfentcrs : 
 
 2. And 
 
,2. Ana tney nave no certain faith to constitute a 
 Church-member : For they hold that his obligation to 
 believe, is according to his inward and outward means, 
 of which no man can pofiibly judge c . And fo no man 
 can know whether himfelf or another have that faith 
 which is required as necetfary to falvarion. And many 
 of them fay, That they that believe not in Chrifi, have 
 fiving faiths and are in the Church, if they had not 
 fufficient means. 
 
 X 1 1. Re a f on t The Papacy doth intolerably tyran- 
 nize over Kings, and teach fuch Do&rines of Perjury 
 and Rebellion, as their very Religion, as is not in the 
 pra&ice of it to be endured in any Kingdom - nor 
 dare they fully practife it : The Crowns and Lives of 
 Princes being at the mercy of the Pope h As the faid 
 Later one Council fhewetfu 
 
 XIII. Reafon : Their Qiurch is oft EJfent ially unho- 
 ly, heretical and wicked, becaufe the Pope is often fa, 
 who is an EJfential part of it • And therefore it is not 
 the holy CatholickjChurch. General Councils have up- 
 on examination judged their Popes to be Hereticks, 
 Schifmaticks, Adulterer s> Murderers, Simonifls , yea, 
 guilty of Blafphcmy or Infidelity it felf. And the 
 Church cannot be Holy , whofe EJfential part is fo 
 unholy* 
 
 XIV. Reafon t Their Churches fuccejfwn is fo no- 
 torioufly interrupted, and their Papacy fo often alte- 
 red in its caufes, as that it is become a confounded and 
 sl m^v uncertain thing. So many notorious or judged 
 
 F z He- 
 
(68) 
 
 Hereticks,Simqnifts, Murderers, Sodomites, Adulterers 
 have poflefTed the Seat, who were therefore Hncapable y 
 that the line of iucceflion mull needs be interrupted by 
 them. And fo many wayes have they been made or 
 elected, fometimes by the people , fometimes by the 
 City -Presbyters, fometimes by Emperours, fometimes 
 by Cardinals, fometimes by Councils, that if any one 
 way of Election be necefTary, they have loft their Papa- 
 cy long ago. If no one way be necefTary , then the 
 Turk may make a Pope. 
 
 X V. Reafon : Their Church called One, is really 
 two in fpccie » one Headed by a Pope , and another by 
 ^General Qrnncil : For while the Head or Supream Ruler 
 is an Ejfential part, and one part of the. people own 
 one Head and another part -own another Head , ( as 
 they do ) the Churches thus conftituted cannot be 
 One. 
 
 And alfo de individuo there have been long two or 
 three Popes at once , and confequently two or three 
 Churches ; And to this day none knoweth which was 
 the right. 
 
 XVI. Reafon : They plead for a Church which ne- 
 ver had a being in the world j that is, All Chriftians 
 Headed by one Pope - y When all the Chriftian world 
 did never take hirn for their Head, nor were governed 
 
 by him to this day. 
 
 XVII. Reafon: They dreadfully injure the holy 
 Scriptures , as if jefta Cbrift, and all the Prophets and 
 Applies \r\ all thofe Sacred Record;, had not had skjU 
 
 or 
 
(69) 
 
 Dr will to fpeak intelligibly, and plainly to deliver h$ 
 :he do&rines neceffary to falvation : But they make 
 :heir Voluminous Councils more intelligible and fuffici- 
 mt - as if they had done better than Chrift and his 
 Apoftles : And when men muft only Difcern Gods 
 Laws, and fudge Caufes by the Law, they make them- 
 felves Judges of the Law it felf, that is, of God the 
 Judge of all, and of that Law by which they muft be 
 judged. 
 
 XVIII. Reafin ; There is no other Se& of Chriflians 
 under Heaven which hath fo many differences among 
 themfelves, or have written fo many Books againft one 
 another as the Papifts : And though many of them are 
 of great importance, yea, fome are about the very Ef- 
 fence or ConftitutiveHead of their Church,yet have they 
 no handfomer way to palliate all by, than by faying that 
 thefe are but Opinions, and no Articles of faith, and 
 the Infallible Judge dare not decide them : No though 
 it be diverdy of Expofitions of Gods own Word, yet 
 Commentators ftill differ without any hope of a deci- 
 flon, as if Gods Word were not to be believed, but were 
 only the matter of uncertain Opinion , till the Pope 
 and Council have expounded it, and no more Scripture 
 is de fide than they expound. 
 
 XIX. Reafon: Perjury is made the very Character 
 of their Church, or the brand by which it is ftigma- 
 tized •, As is vifible i,In the Trw 04th impofed on 
 their Clergy , which whoever taketh he is immediately 
 perjured : and 2. By their difobliging men from Oaths 
 and Vpws 5 even the Subjects of Princes from their 
 Oaths of Alkgiancc , whenever the Pope (hall excom- 
 
 F 5 raunicatc 
 
(10) 
 
 municatc them, and give their Dominions to others, as 
 is decreed 'Qtncil. Later, fub Innoc. 3. Can. 3, 
 
 XX. Re*fon\ They are guilty of Idolatry in their 
 ordinary Worfhip by the Mafs : while they worfhip 
 Bread as their Lord God: Nor will it juftifie them to 
 fay, that if they thought it to be Bread, they would 
 not worfhip it : Any more than it would juftifie Julian 
 to fay, that he would not worfhip the Sun, if he thought 
 not that it was God : And they confefs, that if it prove 
 to be ftill Bread, their Worfhip will prove Idolatry : 
 and we defire no other proof. 
 
 AnH I am not able to juftifie their fending God his 
 Worfhip by aCrofs, Crucifix, or other Image, as a 
 medium cult urn, from being a grofs Violation of the fe- 
 cond Commandment : ( which they leave out ). 
 
 X X I. Reafon : Their Religion greatly tendeth to 
 Mortify Chriftianity, and turn it into a dead Image , 
 by de/lroyingmuch of its life and power: 1, By be- 
 friending Ignorance, and hiding the holy Scripture, for- 
 bidding all the people to read them in a known tongue 
 without a fpecial Iicenfe : blafpheming Gods Word, 
 as if fo read, it had more tendency or likelihood to 
 hurt men than to profit them, to damn them than to 
 fave them ; when they will fay otherwife of all their 
 own Vulgar poftils and fuch like writings. 
 
 2. And by teaching the people a blind devotion, viz.. 
 to pray in an unknown tongue, and to worfhip God by 
 words not undcrfiood* 
 
 3. And by making up a Religion much, if not far 
 mofi, of external formalities^ and a multitude of cc re- 
 monicsy and the opus opcratum of their various Sacra- 
 
 ments 
 
T7U 
 
 > merits ^ As if God delighted in fuch adions as befit not 
 the acceptance of a grave and fober man ; or as if 
 Guilt and Sin would be wiped off , and charmed 
 away into virtue andholinefs, by fuch corporeal mo- 
 tions, fhews and words. 
 
 XXII. Reafon : Their Religion , though it thus 
 tend to gratifie the ungodly by deceitful remedies and 
 hopes, yet is very uncomfortable to the godly. For, 
 I. By it no man can know that he is a true believer, 
 and not a child of Hell, ( much lefs that he lhall be 
 faved : ) For they teach that no Divine can tell them 
 what Articles are necelTary to be believed to falvation : 
 But they muft be fo many as are fuited to every ones 
 capacity, and means, during his life. And no man 
 living can know that he underftandethand believeth as 
 much as his capacity and means were in their kind fuf- 
 ficient to : Nay, there is no man that hath not been 
 culpably ignorant of fomewhat which he might have 
 known. 
 
 2. Mens. Sacramental receptions and comforts depend 
 on the Intention of the Prieft, which no man knoweth. 
 
 3-Almoft all Godly men muft expect the fire of 
 Purgatory : and confequently none of them can be ra- 
 tionally willing to dye : Becaufe this life is better than 
 Purgatory - 3 and no man will defire to go from 
 hence into the fire : And fo by making all men unwil- 
 ling to dye , it deftroyeth a heavenly mind, and killeth 
 faith, and hope, and love, and holy joy, and tcmpteth 
 men to be worldlings, and to love this life better than 
 the next. Yea, it tempteth men to be afraid of Mar- 
 tyrdom, left (dying in Venial fins, as all do) they 
 go to a Purgatory fire ? more terrible than Mar- 
 tyrdom. 
 
 F4 XXIII. 
 
I /*y 
 
 XXIII. Rcafon : Their Do&rine is not only con- 
 trary to many exprefs Texcs of Holy Scripture, but 
 alfo contrary to it felf : One P,>pe and one Council 
 having decreed one thing , and ano:hcr the clean 
 
 contrary. 
 
 XXIV. Re/tfon : All this evil is made more perni- 
 cious, by that profeflfed Impenitence which is included 
 in the conceit of their Churches Infallibility : For they 
 that hold themfejves Infallible, do profefs never to Re- 
 pent, pf any thing in which they fuppofe themfelves to 
 be h. And as Repentance is the great evidence of the 
 pardon of fin •, fo Impenitency is that mortal fign of an 
 unpardoned foul , without which no fin doth qualifie 
 the fmner to be Excommunicated by man, or damned 
 by God .• And a fin materially lefs^ is more Mortal un- 
 refemed of, than a greater truly lamented and for- 
 faken. 
 
 X X V. Reafon : Every honeft godly Proteftant may 
 b: asfure tha: Popery is falfe, as he is that he is him- 
 {df fincere, and Loveth God, and is truly willing to 
 obey him. And no man can turn Papift, without felf- 
 contradi&ion, who is a true Chriftian, and an honeft 
 man : For by turning Papift he confeffeth himfelf to 
 be before a falfe-hearted hypocrite, who neither Loved 
 God, norfincerely defired to obey him, nor was true to 
 his Baptifmal Covenant. For it is a part of Popery to be- 
 lieve that none are in a ftate of falvation , but the Sub- 
 jelh of the Pope, or members of the Papal Church : 
 And confequently that no others have true Faith, Re- 
 pentance 
 
(73) 
 penrance or Love to God : Or elfe that God is falfe in 
 promiflng falvation , to all that have true Faith, Re- 
 pentance and Love to God. All therefore that know 
 their own hearts to be truly devoted to God, are fafe 
 from Popery • And feeing it is agreed on both fides, 
 that none can or ought to turn Papifts but ungodly hy- 
 pocrites ( or Knaves ) no wonder if fuch are deluded 
 by the mod palpable deceits, and forfaken of God whom 
 they perfidioufly forfook. 
 
 I will name you no more : If I make thefe, or any 
 one of thefe good ( as I undertake to prove them all ), 
 you will fee that I refufe not my felf to be a Papift with- 
 out fufficient caufe, 
 
 And yet by this charge you will fee that I am none 
 of their extream adverfaries : I pafs by abundance of 
 Doctrinal differences, wherein by many they are mod 
 deeply charged : Not as Juftifying them againft all or 
 moft fo charged on them , but i. As giving you thofe 
 Reafons which moft move my felf ', and which I am 
 moft able to make good, and leaving every one to his 
 proper work : 2. And as one that have certainly found 
 oat, that in many dotlrinals feeming to be the matter 
 of our wideft difference, we are thought: by many to 
 differ much more than we do ^ 1 . The difference lying 
 moft in Words, and Logical Notion j, and various wayes 
 of mens exprefling their conceptions : 2. Andtheani- 
 mofity of men engaged in Parties and Intercfts againft 
 each other, caullng moft to take ail in the worft fenfe, 
 and to make each other feem far more erroneous than 
 they are , and to turn differing names into da?nnable 
 herefies: And 3. Few men having Will and Skill to ftate 
 controverfies aright, and cut off miftaken feeming diffe- 
 rences : 4. And few having bonefty and felf -deny at 
 
 enough. 
 
(74) 
 enough to incurr the cenfure of the ignorant Zealots of 
 their own party, by feeming but impartial and juft to 
 their advcrfaries. 
 
 I mean in fuch points, as i. The Nature of Divine 
 faith, Whether it be a perfwafion that I am pardoned, 
 &c. 2. Of Certainty of falvation , 3. And Certainty 
 of perfeverance, 4. Of San&ification, 5. Of Juftifica- 
 tion, 6. Of Good works, 7. Of Merit, 8, Of Predefti- 
 nation, 9. Of Providence and the Caufe of Sin : 10. Of 
 Free-will, 11. Of Grace, 12. Of Imputation ofRigh- 
 rcoufncfs, 1 3 . Of Univerfal Redemption, 14. Of Origi- 
 nal Sin, and divers others : In all which I cannot juftifie 
 them , but am fure that the difference is made com- 
 monly to feem to be that which indeed it is not : In 
 the true impartial ftating whereof Lad. Le Blanch^ 
 hath begun to do the Chriftian Churches moil excellent 
 fervice, worthy our great thanks, and his bearing all 
 the Cenfures of the ignorant. 
 
 PART 
 
(75) 
 
 PART IV. 
 
 The Firfi Charge made good againjl Tranfub* 
 Jlantiation: In which Topery is proyed to 
 be the Shame of Humane Nature i Con* 
 trary to SEHSB , ^EJSON, 
 SC^IfTH^E and T^JVh 
 TION, or the judgement of the Antient 
 and frefent Church ; devijed by Satan 
 to expoje Qhrijltanity to the Scorn of 
 Infidels. 
 
 CHAP. I. 
 
 The Fir ft Reafon to prove Tranfubftantiation falfe. 
 
 R. fT^He Papifts Belief of Tranfubftantiation 
 
 is, that There is a change made of the 
 
 I whole fubftance of the Bread into the 
 
 JL body ofChriftj and of the whole fub- 
 
 fiance of Wine into his blood. Their opinion ( caUed 
 
 their faith ) hath two parts : The firft is, thitThere is 
 
 no more true Proper Bread and Wine after the words 
 
 ofConfecration, Hoc eft Corpus meum. The fecond is, 
 
 that There is the true proper Flejh and Blood of Jefus 
 
 Chrift, under the fpecies ( as they call them) of 
 
 Bread and Wine* 
 
 It 
 
It is the firftthat I fhall now prove falfe: And you 
 muft not forget the ftate of 
 Aqain. p. 3.^75. a. 5. ad 3. F*fo the Queftion , which is not, 
 ntntjteontrsjerfum.fedejtde* whether Chrifts Body and 
 aiauodfenfus nsn&mngtt. But f , t J ~> J 
 
 doth not fenfe fay, Here is Bread Blood VC prefent ? But Whc- 
 
 **T!\*l ther there remain any Bread 
 
 and Wine ? 
 Arg. I. If there remains Bread and Wine after the 
 Confecration, then all the fenfes of all the found men in 
 the world are deceived, or all mens perception of the fe 
 fenfible things deceived, though there be due magni- 
 tude, fite, diftance of the objed, a due abode, and a 
 due medium and no depravation of the fenfe or intelled. 
 But this Confequcnt is notoriously falfe, (as fhall be 
 proved ) Therefore Popery is falfe. 
 
 ■ i.That all mens fenfe s perceive Bread and Wine , or 
 all mens Intellects by their fenfes ) will not bedenyed. 
 Not only Prottftants, but Greekj, Mahometans, Hea- 
 thens, Papifts, all perfons perception by fenfe is here 
 the fame : Therefore it is found fenfes or elfe there are 
 ?wne found in the world. 
 
 2. It is not one fenfe, but all. The eye fceth Bread 
 and Wine ; The hanft and mouth feel it . The palate 
 tajleth it j The fmclling fenfe fmlkihmt Wine -, yea, 
 and the ear hear ethit poured out, 
 
 3. It is in due quantity, and not an undifcernable 
 jit me. 
 
 4. It is near the fenfe, and neither by too much di- 
 ftance or nearnefs made infenfible. 
 
 5. It hath a due abode, and is not made infenfible by 
 hafly pafwg by. 
 
 6. The air, and light, and all neceffary media of per- 
 ception are prefent. So that there is nothing wanting 
 to the fenfbility of the objed. 
 
 P, And 
 
(77; 
 
 P. And how do you prove all or any of thefe ? For 
 ought you know, the media may be undue ^ the magni- 
 tude, fite, diftance, abode, may hot be what they feem 
 to be j and Co you prove not what you fay. 
 
 K. All that I am now faying, is, that *All men of 
 found fenfe, in the world have thefe immediate clear 
 perceptions : The InteHcB by fenfe perceiveth the object 
 as quantitative, as near^ &c. This you dare not deny : 
 So that if this perception be falfe, and here be no Bread 
 and Wine, then Senfe or the Intellect difcerning by the 
 means of fenfe, is deceived. 
 
 P. I fay that the Senfescr Intellects perception are 
 deceived. 
 
 R. I prove that they are not deceived ; or at lead, 
 that this kind of perception is the moft certain that man 
 on earth is capable of, and is to be trufted to by all 
 men, and disbelieved or contradicted by none. 
 
 Reafon I. Becaufe that humane nature is fo formed, 
 that the Intellect hath no other way of perceiving things 
 fenfible , but as they are firft perceived by the fenfe, 
 and by it tranfmitted to the Intellecl ( or made its ob- 
 jects ) : And if about Spirits k hold not, that There is 
 nothing in the lntitlell y which was not firft in the fenfe : 
 yet about things fenfible, it doth undenyably hold : And 
 alfo that the Jntellecl of it felf is not free to perceive 
 things fenfible otherwife than as they are fenfe d, or 
 not to perceive them •, but is naturally necejfitated to 
 perceive them. So that it is a contradi&ion for a man 
 to be a man, confifting of a reafon able foul, with fen- 
 fitive faculties and a body , and yet not to be formed to 
 judge of things fenfible as fenfe perceiveth them. 
 
 P. Then mad men ceafe to be men , if they judge 
 otherwife. 
 
 R. Mad men are your fitted presidents : But, t. I 
 told you how mans nature is imie by God to judge of 
 
 things ; 
 
 o 
 
things : I told you not that this nature may not be vi- 
 tiated, and hindered from right aftion. Did I ever 
 fay, that the eye may not bt blinded, or the underftand- 
 ing diftraeted ? Blind men and mad men judge not ac- 
 cording to the tendency of Nature, and therefore mif- 
 judge. The Connexion of the Intellect to the fenfe is 
 efTential to man as man •, but fo is not the foundnefs or 
 right exercifeof his faculties, 
 
 Reafon I 1. Hence I argue , that fenfation and the 
 under landings perception thereby, is the fir ft perception 
 of maiio foul, and all that follow are but the rational 
 improvements of it, and therefore ever prefuppofe it : 
 The natural order of the fouls apprehenfions is this, 
 beyond all controverfie. Firft Senfe perceiveth things 
 fenfwle , and the Imagination the Images of them. 
 Next the Vnderftandmg by zfimple perception conceiv- 
 cth of them as it findeth them in the imagination. 
 Thirdly, then by this Thinking or Knowing, we per- 
 ceive alfo our own Aft, that we do foThinl^ or Know. 
 And then Fourthly, We compound our conceptions, and 
 form organical notions, and fpin out conclufions from 
 what we firft perceive. Now if the fir ft perceptions 
 be uncertain or falfe , it mud needs follow , that all 
 thofe following thoughts, and reafonings which do but 
 improve them , are at leaft as uncertain and falfe, if 
 not more. So that there can be no more cercainty in 
 any of the Conclufions as fuch , than there is in the 
 premifes and principles. Therefore if mans firft and 
 mo ft natural necejfary perceptions arc falfe, all the 
 following aftions or reafonings of his mind mud be no 
 better. All being finally refolved into thefe perceptions 
 hy fenfe, there is no Truih or Certainty in mans mind 
 at all, if there be none in thefe. 
 
 Reafon 1 1 L 
 
<7p; 
 
 Reafon 1 1 1. Elfc you would infer, that God is not 
 at all to be Believed^ and that there is no fuch thing as 
 Divine Faith and Religion in Certainty in the world : 
 And fo you would bring in , by unavoidable confe- 
 quence, far worfe Impiety , and Jrreligioufnefs than 
 Mahomet or Julian, or any Idolaters that I hear of 
 on the earth. For you dire&ly will overthrow the 
 Divine Veracity , or Truth of Gods Revelations , which 
 is the Formal Objett of Faith, without which, it is no 
 Faith. 
 
 P. A heavy charge, if you can make it good. 
 
 R. To make it good, do but firft obferve , i . That 
 Gods Ejfential Will or mind is not in it [elf immedi- 
 ately feen by man ♦, but known only by fome Re- 
 velation. 
 
 2. That this Revelation is nothing but fome SIGNES : 
 For there is nothing in the Univerfe of Beings, but 
 GOD and CREATURES and the ACTS or Works 
 of Creatures. Now it is not Gods oven Ejfence which is 
 the Revelation in queftion. Therefore it muft be ei- 
 ther A Creature ( or work of God J , or an Att or 
 Work, of a Creature. As the voice on Mount Sinai, 
 and that of Chrift at his baptifm and transfiguration, and 
 the written Tables of Stone, &e. were either the works 
 of God immediately, and fo created Signs of his mind ; 
 or elfe the Atts of Angels, and fo Imperate Signs of his 
 mind. Nor it is. not the or dinar inefs or extraordina- 
 rinefs of the way of making thefe figns, which maketh 
 them currant and true,or credible : For if God can make 
 a Natural falfe fign, he can make a fupematuralfalfe 
 one, for ought any mojtal man can prove. Only all 
 the queftion is, Whether it be indeed a fign of the 
 mind and will of God or not . ? Now the works of Na- 
 ture are Gods Natural Signs, and his Natural objective 
 Light and Law -, as the perception of them is the Sub- 
 
 jeftive 
 
(So)' 
 
 jetlive or Active Light and Law of Nature i Some- 
 thing of God, thefe Natural figns do fignifie or reveal 
 plainly , and feme things darkly : And fo it is with fiu- 
 pernatural figns -, As the written Tables, the voice of 
 an Angel, the words of an infpired Prophet or ./4/w- 
 yr/<?, e£*<r. Now there is no other way for God to fpeak 
 or reveal falfly, could he do it, but i . Either to make 
 a falfie fign, naturally or fupernaturally, or 2. To de- 
 termine mans fienfie or mind to a falfe perception. And 
 if God can do this naturally , why not fiuper natu- 
 rally f 
 
 Nay, a fortiore mark how you teach the Infidel to 
 inferr? 1. Gods Natural Revelations are Common, 
 and his fiuper natural rare. 2. Gods Natural Revela- 
 tions art moft certainly his own Alls : But how far a 
 Voice or Book, frum a Spirit, may be the Act. of that 
 Spirit or Angel as a free Agent , and how far that 
 Agent is fallible v. r defect ible, we could not tell, if we 
 had not farther Evidence of Gods owning it. There- 
 fore if you make Gods own ordinary Natural Revela- 
 tions or fignifications to be falfe, how will you be able 
 to difprove the Infidel about the reft? 3. And then 
 note, that our Cafe is yet lower and plainer than all 
 this : For if the very Being of the Creatures, which is 
 the Matter of thefe Signs be uncertain to us, and all 
 our fenfes and minds deceived about it ; then we have no 
 place for enquiry, Whether this Creature be any fign 
 of the mind of God. As if the hearing of all men was 
 deceived, that thought they heard that voice, [ This is 
 my Beloved Son ~\ or Pauls, that thought he heard Chrift 
 fpeak to hkn [ Saul, Saul, &c. ] or if their Eyes and 
 Intellects were deceived, that thought they fiaw Chrifiv 
 and his miracles -, or that think now that they read the 
 Bible, and indeed there be nofuch thing as a Bible, no 
 fuch words, &c . then there is no room to enquire what 
 
 they 
 
■(■Si ; 
 
 ihzyfignifie: For nothing hath no ftgnific at ion. Truth 
 and Gojdnefs are affections or modes of Being .- And if 
 | we cannot by all our found fenfes know the Being of 
 things, we can much lefs know that they are True or 
 Good. Therefore all knowledge, and all faith, and all 
 Religion is overthrown by your denyal of the truth 
 of our Senfes and Intellects perception of things 
 fenfible. 
 
 Reafon I V. And by this means you are not capable 
 
 of being diluted with, nor any Controverfie between 
 
 you and any others in the world, of being decided, 
 
 ! while you deny fenfe. For then you agree not with 
 
 mankind in any one common principle. And they that 
 
 agree in nothing, can difpute of nothing. For this is 
 
 the firft principle : Eftvel non eft is firft to be agreed 
 
 \ on, before we can difpute any farther of a fubftance. 
 
 i What will you do to confute an adverfary, but drive 
 
 him to deny a certain principle ? And can you drive 
 
 him to deny a lower fundamental Principle , than the 
 
 Being of a fubftance perceived by fenfe, yea, by all the 
 
 found fenfes of all men in the world ? 
 
 Reafn V. Yea, it is ipecially to be noted, that our 
 difference is not only about the fpecies of a fenfible 
 fubftance, but about the very fubftance it fe If in gen ere \ 
 Whether all our fenfes perceive any fubftance at all, or 
 nor. Suppofe the question were, Whether it be water 
 or not, which all mens fenfes fee in Rivers ? If a Pa- 
 pill would deny it tobew^r, doubtlefs hedenyed the 
 agreeing judgement of all mens Intellect by fenfe. But 
 if hefhouldalfo fay, It is no fubftance, which we call 
 water or earth, This were to deny the firft Principle, 
 and moft fundamental perception in nature. 
 . Now that this is your cafe , is undenyable. For, 
 i. You profefs, that Qorifts Body arid Blood are not 
 fenfible there •, That it is not the quantity, Jhape, nuw- 
 
 G ber 7 
 
(82) 
 
 he r, colour, fmell, weight, &c. of Chrifls Body and 
 2?/<W which we perceive, and that thefe Accidents are 
 not the Accidents of Chrifr. 2. And you believe that 
 the Bread and Wine is gone, that is, changed into the 
 body and blood of Chrift ^ fo that no part of their fub- 
 fiance, matter or form is left. And you put no third 
 fubftance under thefe Accidents in the (lead. So that 
 you maintain, that it is the quantity of nothing, the 
 figure of nothing, the colour, the weight, thtfeituation, 
 the fmell, the number, eye. of nothing, which all mens 
 Intellects by fenfe perceive. So that the Controverfie 
 is, Whether it be any fubftance at all which by thofe ac- 
 cidents we perceive ? And when we fee, handle, tafle, 
 fmell it, you believe for fay you believe) that it is 
 none > neither Bread or Wine, or any other : Now if 
 by fenfe we cannot be fure of the very Being of a fub- 
 ftance, we can be fure of nothing in the world. 
 
 Reafon V J. Yea , it is to be noted , that though 
 Brutes have no Intellects, yet their Senfe and Imagina- 
 tion herein wholly agreeth with the common percepti- 
 on of man : A Dog or a Moufe will eat the bread as 
 common bread, and a Swine will drink the Wine as 
 common Wine : and therefore have the fame perception 
 of it as of common bread and wine • And fo their 
 fenfes mull be all deceived as well as mans. And 
 Brutes have as accurate perfed fenfes as men have, 
 and fome much more. And meer natural operations 
 are more certain and con ft ant ( as we fee by the worlds 
 experience ) than meer Reafon and ^Argumentation. 
 Birds and Beafts are conflant in their perceptions and 
 cotirfe of adion, being not left to the power of 'Mutable 
 free-will. 
 
 Reafon VII. You hereby quite overthrow your own 
 foundation, which is fetcht from the Concord of all 
 your party, which you call all the Church : You think 
 
 that 
 
tnat zueneralLouncil could not agree to any thing as 
 an Article of faith if it were not fuch • ( when it is but 
 the Major Vote that agree ) j You fay that Tradition 
 is Infallible , becaufe All the Church agreeth in it 7 
 ( wben it is perhaps but your Sell , which is a Minor 
 fart ). But do you not overthrow all this, when you 
 profefs, that All thefenfes of all the found men in the 
 world, and all the fimple perceptions of their IntelUtts 
 by fenfe , do agree , that there is fubftance, yea, de 
 fpecie Bread zn&Wine after the Confecration ?' No one 
 mans perception by fenfe df agreed in this, from the 
 inftitution of the Sacrament to this day , that can be 
 proved, or the leaft probability of it given. And if 
 this Concord be no proof, much lefs is yours : For, 
 i. The Intellect in Reafoning is more fallible than in 
 its Immediate perception of things fenfed ( or perceiv- 
 ed by fenfe). 2. Tours is but the Content offome men • 
 but ours is the Confent of all mankind. Tours among 
 your felves hath ofc in Councils a Minor part of dijfen- 
 ters, who muft be overvoted by the reft : But our Cafe 
 hath never one dijfenting fenfe or perception. 
 
 Reafon VIII. By this denyal of fenfe, you over- 
 throw the foundations of Humane Converfe : How can 
 men make any fure Contracts , or perform any duty 
 on a fure ground, if the Concordant fenfes of all the 
 world be falfe ? Parents cannot be fure which are their 
 own Children - 5 nor Children which are their own Pa- 
 rents : Husbands cannot certainly know their own 
 Wives from their neighbours. No Subjects can cer- 
 tainly know their own Prince. No man can be fure, 
 whether he buy or fell, receive money or pay it,(^-c„ 
 No man can be fure that there is a Pope, or Prieft, or 
 man in the world. 
 
 Reafon IX. You feem to me to BUfpheme God, and 
 to make him the greateft Deceiver of mankind , even 
 
 G s in 
 
in his holy Worjlup : Whereas 6 od cannot lye •, It is tm- 
 
 pojfible : And the Devil is the Father of lyes : And 
 you make God to tell all the world ( as plainly as if 
 words told them ) even by demon fir at ion to their fight, 
 
 fmell,fceling, tafie, that, here is Bread und Wine, when 
 there is none • yea, that it is at leaft fome fub fiance 
 which they perceive, when it is none at all. 
 
 Reafon X. You thus lain God to be Cruel to Man- 
 kind, and that under pretence of Grace • Even to put 
 fuch hard Conditions of falvation on man , which 
 feem to us impoffible, to any but mad men, or thofe 
 who by fa&ion have caft their minds into a dream. 
 If thefe be Gods Conditions^ that no man fhall bzfaved, 
 that doth not believe that all his fenfes, and all the fenfes 
 of all the world, are deceived whea they perceive Bread 
 and Wine, or fub fiance , many may take on them to be- 
 
 • lieveit, but lew will believe it , and be faved ind-ed. 
 
 • Reafon X I. Hereby you make the Gofpcl or New 
 
 Covenant to be far harder ahd more rigorous than ei- 
 
 ' ther the Law of Mo fits, or the Law of Innoccncy ; For 
 neither of thefe did damn men for believing the agree- 
 ing fenfes of all mankind : P erf eft Obedience, to a 
 pcriect. nature, was fit to be a delight. The burden- 
 fome Ceremonies had no fuch In.pofibilities in them. 
 None of them obliged men to renounce all their fenfes, 
 and to come to Heaven by fohard a way. 
 
 Reafon XII. You feem to me to Contradict Gods 
 Law and terms of life, and to forge the clean contra- 
 ry as his : He faith, He that comcth to Godmuft Believe 
 that God u, &c. and He that btlicveth Jliall be faved, 
 and he that believcth not jhall be damned : But you 
 feem to me to fay in plain erfedr, [_ He that Believcth 
 Gods Natural Revelations to all mens fenfes fliall be 
 damned, and that believcth that the faid Revelations are 
 falje^ maybe faved, cxieris.paril >l 
 
 Reafon 
 
Reaf XIII. And what a thing by this do you make 
 Gods Grace to be ? Whereas true Grace is the Repairer 
 ; and perfetler cf Nature, you make it to be the defer oyer 
 and deceiver of Nature. The ufe of Grace according 
 to your faith is to caufe men to believe that Gods natu- 
 ral Revelations are falfc, and that all the fenfes of the 
 world in this matter are deceived : Whereas a madman 
 can believe this without Grace. 
 
 Reaf. XIV. By this dodrine you abominably cor- 
 rupt the Church with hypccnfie, while all that will have 
 Communion with you, muft be forced to profefs that 
 all mens fenfes are thus deceived : And can you think 
 that really they can all believe it ? or rather your 
 Church muft.be moftly made up of grofs hypocrites who 
 falfly take on them to believe it when they do not. 
 
 Reaf. XV. And by this means you make the Vnity 
 of the Church to become a meer Impoffibility : For your 
 condition of union is, that men all believe this among 
 other Articles of your faith : And that man hath loft or 
 vitiated his humaniiy who can believe and exped, that 
 all Chrifiians in the world Jheuld ever believe that all 
 the fenfes of all the world are thus deceived. You 
 might as well fay, The Church fhall never have Unity 
 till all Chriftians do believe that David or Chrifi was a 
 Worm and no man, a door, a Vine, a thief, a Rock^, in 
 proper fenfe • or we fhall have no unity till we renounce 
 both our humanity and animality and the light and Law 
 of God in Nature. And after this to cry up Vnity, 
 and cry down Schifm, what abominable hypocrifie is it ? 
 
 Reaf. XVI. And by this dodrine what bloody inhu- 
 manity is become the brand or Charader of your 
 Church ? When you decree ConciL Later, fib. Innoc. 
 3. Can. 3. that all that will not thus renounce their 
 fenfes, and give the lie to Gods natural revelations, fhall 
 be excommunicated and utterly undone in this World, 
 
 G 3 even 
 
(26) 
 
 even banifhed from all that they have, and from the Land 
 of their Nativity -, Yea your Inqutntfon muft torture 
 and burn them, and your Writ de hcretkts ccmburendts 
 muft be ifiued out againil them, to fry them to death in 
 flames, if they will not renounce the common fenfts of 
 mankind. 
 
 Reaf. XVII. And it even amazeth me to think what 
 horrid Tyrants you would thus make all Cbriftian 
 Princes ! When the faid Canon determineth that they 
 fball be fir ft Excommunicate and then caft out of their 
 Dominions, which fhall be given to others, and their 
 fubjecls abfolvcd from their allegiance and fidelity, ex- 
 cept they will exterminate all thefe as heretickj from 
 their Dominions, who will not give the iye to all mens 
 fenfes and to Gods natural Revelations. The plain 
 Englifh is, <T> He fiiall 'not be the Lord of his own Do- 
 minions who will have men to be his fubjetls, or fuch as 
 will not renounce both their humanity and animality or 
 fenfe. For to perceive fubfiances in genere & infpe- 
 cieby finfe, and to believe or trufi the Common fenfes 
 of all the World about things fcnfible, as being the 
 fureft way that we have of perception, is as neceffary to 
 a tJtfan as Ratiocination is. Choofe then O ye Princes 
 of the Earth, whether you will be Papifis, and whether 
 you will have no men to be your Sub.etts, even none that 
 believe the fenfes of themfelves and all the world. 
 
 Reaf. XVIII. Thus alfo your Idolatry exceedeth in 
 abfurdity the Idolatry of all the Heathens elfe in the 
 World : Even Canibals and the moft barbarous Nations 
 upon Earth. For if they call men to Worfhip an 
 Image, the Sun, the Moon, an Ox or an* Onion (of which 
 the Egyptians are accufed) tky do but fay that fome 
 fpiritual or celcfiial numen affixeth his operative pre- 
 fence to this Creature : But they never make men fwear 
 that there is no Image, or Sun or Moon or Ox or Onion 
 
 left 
 
left, but that the whole fubfiance of it is turned into 
 God, or fomewhat elfe. Your Abfurdities tend to make 
 the grofleft Idolatry feem comparatively to yours, a 
 very fair and tolerable errour. 
 
 Reaf. XIX. By thefe means you expofe Chriflianity 
 to the fcornoi humane nature, and all the world. You 
 teach Heathens, Mahometans and other Infidels to de- 
 ride Chrift as we do Mahomet ; and to fay that a Chri- 
 ftian Makith and Eateth his God, and his faith is a Be- 
 lieving that Gods fufernatural Revelations are a lie 7 
 and that God is like the Devil the great Deceiver of the 
 world. Wo be to the world becaufe of offences, and 
 wo be to him by whom offence cometh. 
 
 Reaf, XX. Laftly by this means you are the grand 
 pernicious hinderers of the Conversion of the Heathen 
 and Infidel world : For you do as it were proclaim to 
 them ; [Never turn Chrifiians till you will believe that 
 Gods Natural Revelations are falfe, and that all mens 
 fenfes in the world are deceived, in judging that there 
 is Bread, Wine, or fenfible fub fiance after the words of 
 Confecrationf\ 
 
 Thefe are the mifchievous Confequents of your do- 
 ctrine. But one benefit I confefs doth come by occafion 
 of it • that it is eifier hereby to believe that there are 
 Devils, when we fee how they can deceive men : and 
 to believe the evil of fin, when we fee how it maketh 
 men mad - 5 and to believe that there is a He 11, when we 
 fee fuch a Hell already on Earth, as Learned Pompous 
 Clergie men, that have ftudied to attain this malignant 
 madnefs to decree to fry men in the flames and damn 
 them to Hell, and give them no peace or quietnefs in the 
 World, unlefs they will fa v, that Gods Natural Revela- 
 tions are falfe, and that all mens fenfes are herein de- 
 ceived, by God as the great deceiver of the World. 
 
 G4 CHAP. 
 
CHAP. II. 
 
 The Papifts Anfwers to all this confuted. 
 
 P. Y T is eafie to make any caufe feem odious, til] the 
 1 accufationsareanfwered, which I (hall confident- 
 ly do in the prefent cafe, 
 
 L All this is but argument from fenfe : And fenfe 
 muft vail to faith : Gods word muft be believed before 
 our fenfes. 
 
 R. It is eafie to cheat fools and children into a dream, 
 with a found of empty words : To talk of fenfes vail* 
 ing to faith and fuch like Canting, and infignificait 
 words, may lerve turn with that fort of men. But fo- 
 bermen will tell ycu that fenfe is in exerafe in order 
 of Nature at leaft btfore Reafon or faith, and that we 
 are Men and Animals before we are Chriftians : And 
 that the truth and certainty of faith , pref iippofeth the 
 Truth and Certainty of fenfe. Tell me elfe, if fenfe be 
 falfe, how you know that there is a Man, or Pope, or 
 Priefl in the World ? that there is a Book^ or Voice, or 
 any being ? And what poffibility then have you of Be- 
 lieving . ? 
 
 P. Gods Revelation is furer than our fenfes ? 
 
 R. This is the old fong over and over. Revelation 
 without fenfg ( to you and ordinary Chriftians at 
 leaft J is a contradiction. How know you that God 
 hath any revelations ? If by preachers words, How know 
 ycu that there is a preacher, or a word but by fenfe > 
 If by books, How know you that there # a book^ but by 
 fenfe ? 
 
 P. 1 1. We may truft fenfe in all other things, where 
 
 God 
 
God doth not contradict it : But not in this One Cafe, 
 becaufe God forbiddeth us. 
 
 R. Say fo of your Church too, your Pope, Council or 
 Traditions • that we may truft them in all cafes fave one 
 or two, in which it is certain that they do lye ! And 
 will not any man conclude, that he that can lye in one 
 cafe, can lye in more ? If one Text of Gods word were 
 falfe, and you would fay, You may believe all the reft 
 fave that, how will you ever prove it ? For the for- 
 mal objed of faith is gone, which is the Divine Vera- 
 city • He that can lye once, can lye twice. So if all our 
 fenfesbefalfe in this inftance, how fhall we know that 
 they are ever true ? 
 
 P. You may know it becaufe God faith it. 
 
 R. i. Where doth God fay it ? 2. How fhall I be 
 fure that he faith it ? If you fay, that it is written in 
 Scripture ^ befides that there is no fuch word • How 
 .fhall I know that all mens fenfes are not deceived in 
 thinking that there is a Scripture , or fuch a word in 
 it ? If you fay that the Council faith it, How fhall I 
 know that there is a man or ever was a Council^ or a 
 Book^ in the world ? The certainty of finclnfanj pre- 
 fuppofeth the certainty of premifes and principles : And 
 the certainty of faith and Reafoning, prefuppofeth the 
 certainty of fenfe : And if you deny this, you deny all, 
 and in vain plead for the reft. 
 
 P. I muft believe my fenfes, where I have no reafou 
 * to disbelieve them. But when God contradideth them, 
 ; I have reafon to disbelieve them. 
 
 R. 1. You vainly fuppofe without proof that God 
 contradideth them. So you may fay, I may or muft 
 believe the Scripture or an Apoftle, Prophet or Miracle, 
 except God contradict, them. But if God contradict 
 them, he contradideth his own word or revelation : 
 For we have no other from him, but by man : And if he 
 
 contradid 
 
contradict himfelf, or his own word, how can I believe 
 him, or know which of his words it is thats true, when 
 ohe is falfe ? fo here : His Natural Revelation is his 
 fir ft, near eft , and mod fat isfatlory revelation : And if 
 that be faid to be falfe by his fisfcr natural revelation, 
 which fhall I believe, and why ? 
 
 P. III. You cannot deny but God can deceive our 
 fenfes. And therefore if he can, will you conclude 
 againft all faith if once he do it ? 
 
 R. i. This is not once ^ but as oft as God is wor- 
 fhiped in your Mafs and our Sacrament. 
 
 2. God can deceive us without a Lie, but not by a 
 Lie. flhrift deceived the two Difciples, Luke 24. by 
 carrying it as if he would have gone further ^ but not 
 by faying that he. would go further. God can do that 
 from which he knoweth that man will take occafwn of 
 deceit. God can blind a mans eyes, or deflroy or cor- 
 rupt his other fenfes ^ he can preient an object defective- 
 ly, with unmeet mediums, diftance, (ice, arc. In this 
 cafe he doth not give us a FALSE SIGN ^ nor 
 doth he by the Nature of the Revelation oblige any 
 man to believe it : Yea Nature fekh 3 that a man is not 
 to Judge by a vitiated fenfe, or an unmeet medium, or 
 a too diflant objett, or where the due qualification of 
 the kni'i: or object are wanting : Nature there tells us 
 that we are there to fuppofeor fufped that we are un- 
 capable of certainty : But Nature oblige th us to believe 
 found fenfes about duly qualified objt&s ^ and to take 
 fenfe for found when all the fenfes of all the men in 
 the wn-ld agree •, and the object to be a duly qualified 
 object of fenfe, when all mens fenfes in the world fo 
 p rcetve ir. For we have no way but by fenfe to know 
 what is an obj eel of fenfe. 
 
 3. The queftion is not what God can do by his 
 fower, if he will j but what God vtiH do> and can will 
 
 to 
 
o do, in confiftency with his perfettion^ andjuft and 
 
 nerciful Government of the World. And God in rca- 
 
 ;:ingusw«7 whofe Intellects are naturally to perceive 
 
 hings fenfible by the means of the perception of fenfe, 
 
 ioth naturally oblige man and nccejfitate him alfo, to 
 
 rult his fenfes in fuch perception. And in Nature man 
 
 lath no furer way of apprehenfion : Therefore if you 
 
 could prove that ienfe is ordinarily fallible, and Gods 
 
 revelations to it falfe, yet man were not only allowed 
 
 but necejfitated to ufe and trufl it, as having no better 
 
 furer way of apprehenfion : As among many knaves or 
 
 lyars, I muft moft trull the hone fie ft and moft trufty, 
 
 when I have no better to truft. If 1 am not fure that it 
 
 is a Sun or Light that I fee, yet I am fure that I muft 
 
 take my perception of it as a Sun or Light as it is • 
 
 1 1 For God hath given me no better. If 1 am not fure 
 
 that my fight, feeling, tafte, &c* are infallible . yet I 
 
 am fure that I am made of God to ufe them • and that 
 
 1 have no better fenfes, nor a better way to be certain 
 
 . of their prope r objetts : fo that I muft take and truft 
 
 them as they are, or ceafe to be a man. 
 
 P. IV. thrifts Body and Blood are not fenfible ob- 
 jects ^ and therefore fenfe is no proper judge whether 
 they be prefenr. 
 
 Ri This is one of yourgrofs kind of cheats, to change 
 the queftion. We are not yet come to the queftion, 
 Whether Chrifts Body and blood be here /And I grant you 
 that fenfe is no judge of that, any more than whether 
 an Angel be here. But the queftion is now only, Whe- 
 ther Bread or Wine or fenfible fubftance be here ? And 
 of this we have no natural way but by fenfe to judge. 
 
 P. V. If God fhould fay to you [Tour fenfes are in 
 this deceived, Here is no bread or wine or fcnftble fub- 
 ftance 3 Would you not believe him ? 
 
 X. i. Again 
 
R. i. Again I tell you, it is a fuppofuion not to be 
 put : As if you ihould fay, [If God jlwuld fay , that part 
 of the Gofpe I or word of God is falje, would yon not be- 
 lieve him r J 2. If 1 know that God telleth me that 
 fome difeafc orfalfe medium, &c, deceive me ox ano- 
 ther in particular, I will believe him : But here it is 
 fuppofed, i. That I have alTurance that it is God that 
 tells me fo . 2. And that I have no aflurance that com- 
 mon fenfe faith the contrary. But if the fenfe of all 
 the world about a well fcituate object of fenfe agree, I 
 will not take that to be Gods word which contradi&eth it, 
 till I havcfo?ne evidence which is better and fironger than 
 the agreeing fenfes of all the world to prove it to be fo. 
 And what evidence muft that be ? I allure you femewhat 
 greater than the authority of a beaftly ignorant murder- 
 ing Pope, and his factious Council. 
 
 P. VI. Cartefim giveth you an inftance of deception 
 of fight : We think a fquare Tower of a Steeple to be 
 round till we come neer it : And the water feemeth to 
 us to move when it is the boat.* " 
 
 R. Cartefim and you do feem to be Confederate, to 
 put out the eye of nature, and tempt the world to Infide- 
 lity, if not to Atheifm. 1. Nature tells us that a diftant 
 Steeple or other objed, is not perfectly difcermble : 
 and therefore Nature forbiddeth us to judge till we. 
 come neerer. We fpeak only of ob efts duly fcituate and 
 qualified. 2. The failing of the fight there is but Ne- 
 gative : It difcerneth not the corners : but here you 
 feign it to be pofitive. 3. As the errour is corrigible 
 by nearer approach, fo alfo by the ufe of other fenfes. 
 If a man feel the Tower that is fquare, he will infalli- 
 bly perceive it. But if you could prove that this fquare 
 Tower is noTower, no Stone, no Sub fiance at all, though 
 all the world ihould judge otherwise that fee it at the 
 
 wectefi 
 
(93) 
 meetefi diftance, and feel it with their hands, then you 
 did fomething to the purpofe. 
 
 So as to the moving water cr banks, i. Motion is not Co 
 evident as fub fiance, 2. Though one fenfe, through the 
 weaknefs of the bruin be inefficient, the Intellclb by 
 the fume fenfe about 01 her objects, and by other fen fes 
 can infallibly difcern what that one perceiveth nor. 
 3. And if one mans eyes deceive him who is in the boat, 
 ten thoufand mens eyes that ftand on the firm land^zv- 
 ccive the truth : But in our cafe it is all the fenfes of all 
 the world, in all ages, about the necrefl object, that 
 agree. 
 
 P. VII. Sub fiance is not the proper objed of fenfe 7 
 
 ■ but only Accidents: We fee, feel, tafte, fmell the ac- 
 cidents, but not the fubftances. 
 
 R. 1 . If you can name fome notional fpeculator or 
 
 I Word-maker that hath faid fo, you think you have au- 
 thority to renounce humanity by it. Call it prope r or 
 not-proper, fibftance is the certain object of fenfe as 
 cloathed with its accidents. Quantity and the res 
 quanta are not two things, but one : And he that feel- 
 eth or feeth quantity, feeleth or feeth the rem quan- 
 tam. He that feeth or feeleth fhape or figure, feeth or 
 
 ! feeleth the thing figured. He that fmelleth odor^ fmel- 
 leth rem c dor at am ^ He that feeth Colour, feeth the 
 rem coloratam. When to feel the fuperficies, you feel 
 the fubftance. 
 
 2. By this we fee how by words you will unman man- 
 kind. Have ycu any way of perception of corporal fab- 
 
 i fiances but by fenfe ? Do you know that there is any 
 ' Earth or Water, or any corporal f 11b fiance in the world, 
 
 or not? If you do, tell us how you know it but by the 
 ! perception of fenfe prefenting it to the Intellect ? You 
 
 know that you muft thm know it, or not at all. 
 
 3. And thus ftill you would bring men with Scepti- 
 
 cifra 
 
(H) 
 
 cifm to Infidelity. You would teach men, that the^ 
 that faw Chrift were not fure that they faw him or am 
 fubftance at all, but only the accidents, called Quantity 
 Shape, Colour, &c. They that faw Apoftles, Miracles 
 Bibles, Councils, were not fure that they faw any mori 
 than accidents, &c. 
 
 P. VIII. They that faw Angels appearing to th-:rt 
 like men, or the Holy Ghoft defcending on Chrift ir 
 the fhape of a Dove, thought they faw Men and ; 
 Dove : So Mofes Rod did feem a Serpent. But theii 
 fenfes did deceive them. 
 
 R* Their fenfes were not at all deceived : And if by 
 rafh. judging they would go beyond fenfe, and wilfully 
 deceive themfelves, it was their fault. Their fenfe faw 
 the JJjape or liksnefs of a man and dove. The text faith, 
 not that the. Holy Ghoft was a dove, but that it defend- 
 ed in the likenefs of a Dove : and their fenfes perceived 
 no more. And this was true. A man conlifteth of a 
 foul and a body of flefh and blocd •. Did fenfe perceive 
 any of this in the Angels? either, foul, flefh or blood ? 
 or any fuch thing in the appearance of a dove ? If I 
 fee your pi&ure or ftatue, is my fenfe deceived if I 
 take it not for a living man ? If I fee it moved^ is my 
 fenfe deceived if I take it not for any other than a mov- 
 ing Image ? Nature doth not bind me to take every 
 fimiie to be idem •, a corps for a man • an Image for the 
 per [on. It will be foolifhnefs fo to take ir. But if this 
 Angela or Dove, had come near to the fenfes, all the 
 fenfes, of all forts of men, and they had feen, and felt, 
 arid tafted, zn&pnelt, all that are the obje&s of thefe 
 fenfes, and yet there had been indeed no vifible, ta&ible,; 
 fenfible fubftance at all, this had been a deception of! 
 the fenfes remedilefs. Chrift I am fure appealed to 
 fenfe, to prove that he had flefh and blood and was not 
 a meerfpirit. The fame I fay of Mofes Rod ; either it 
 
 was 
 
\9) ) 
 
 ,vas really a Serpent or not ^ If it was, then it was no 
 deception to judge it fuch : If not, fenfe was not at all 
 Received : For it perceived nothing but thefimilitude and 
 motion, andthofe ( with the fubftance ) were certainly 
 there. But if all mens fenfes, feeing, feeling, tailing, 
 &c. had been deceived, and there had been indeed no 
 Jhape of a Serpent, nor any fcnfible fiibfiance at all but 
 .Accidents real without any fubftance, this had been in- 
 deed a deception of theienfes. And if God fo fubvert 
 mans nature, he will not bind him to do the things which 
 belong to the nature of man to do. 
 
 But by all this we may perceive, that there is no end 
 • of Controverfies with you to be hoped for : For how 
 is it poflible to bring any thing to a more fatisfying 
 iftiie, than when the fenfes of all the world do as clearly 
 perceive it, as any fenfible thing can be perceived ? If 
 our difference were whether this be Paper, and thefe be 
 Letters • or whether this be a Pen, a Table, yea or a fub- 
 ftance, and I fhould appeal to the fenfe of all the 
 World, and yet this will not ierve to decide the Con- 
 troverfie ^ what end, or hope of ending can there be : I 
 will fooner look for concord with a mad man, than 
 with men that deny the fenfes of all the World. 
 
 CHAP. 
 
K96 ) 
 
 CHAP. III. 
 
 The fecond Argument Again ft Tranfubftantiation : The 
 Contradictions of it. 
 
 R. Arg.2. (T^Od owneth not Contradi&ions (nor 
 VJ can do ). The Papifts doctrine of 
 Tranfubftantiation, or nullification of the whole fub- 
 ftance of Bread and Wine, is contradictious : There- 
 fore it is not owned by God. 
 
 The Major I know no man that denyeth. 
 
 The Contradictions arethefe. 
 
 1. You feign many Accidents of no fubftance ; which 
 is a grofs contradiction. For to be an Accident is 
 efTentially Relative to a fubject or fubftance : And 
 ejus ejfe efl ineffe. To be a Rather without a Son, or a 
 Son without a Father, a Husband without a Wife, or 
 a Wife without a Husband, &c. are contradictions : 
 And fo it is to be an Accident of nothings or without 
 a fab jell* 
 
 Particularly, i. The quantity of nothing is a con- 
 tradiction : We can meafure the Bread, and Wine : 
 To be an inch in longitude, latitude or profundity, and 
 yet to be no fubftance is a contradiction. To be ( as 
 the Wine is ) a quart , a gallon of Nothing is a contra- 
 diction. 
 
 2. So for number • we can number the wafers or 
 pieces of Bread, and the Qtfs of W T ine : And to be 
 twenty, forty , an hundred nothings y is a contradi- 
 ction. 
 
 3 . So for the Weight , To be an ounce , a found y or ten 
 pound; of nothings is a contradiction. 
 
 4. So 
 
4» So for the figure or fliape : It is a contradicti- 
 on to be a round nothings a fqttare nothings See. 
 
 5. So is it to be a Jwcet nothing, a fharp nothing, 
 an aufiere nothing, &c. as the W*#* is fancied by 
 you. 
 
 6. Or robe an odoriferous nothing: A rough or a 
 fmooth nothing, &c 
 
 7. Or to be a white nothing, or a tW nothing, or 
 any coloured noting. The fame I may fay 01 fit e 7 
 and of a multitude of Relations, &c. 
 
 II. It is a contradiction, tor Nothing to have all 
 thofe Real notable ejfecis, which it is certain that the 
 confecrated Bread and Wine have. 
 
 As, 1. That when a man or a beaft, is really vou- 
 riflied by the Bread and H^fi and flejh and &/<W, and 
 fpirits are made of it, ( as they may live by it many 
 months, ) that thefe fhould be the effects of nothing, or 
 made out of no fubflance by way of Nutrition, with- 
 out a proper Creation. 
 
 2. When the Confecrated Bread and Wine do part- 
 ly turn to Excrements, Vrine, Dung and Spittle, that 
 all the Excrements are nothings or #W* 0/ nothing 
 without a tffvp C reat ^ on ^ * s a contradiction. 
 
 3 . When the Wine fhall ( as it may do ) make a man 
 I cr z. fv in e drunks, that he is made drunk Jay nothing 
 I or no fubflance, when as that drunkennefi is effentially 
 I the operation of the fpirits of the W/#* upon the fpirits 
 ! of him that drinks it, this alfo is a contradiction. And 
 I God maketh not contradictions true. 
 
 P. It is the plea of an Infidel to fay that God cannot 
 do this or that. Will you limit the power of the 
 Almighty ? Will ycu fay that God cannot make Quan- 
 tity, quality, fce, eye without fubflance, becaufe we 
 cannot? It is blafphemy to fay God cannor. 
 
 H & God 
 
R* God can do All things that arc works ef Power : 
 God can do nothing which is a work of Jmpotency, 
 defective nefs, naughtinefs, or folly y or which are con- 
 tradictions in themfelves. And when we fay God can- 
 not, we do but fay either that God is Perfect and Al- 
 mighty , or that the thing is Nothing, but a falfe name, 
 and not capable of being any ones work. God cannot 
 lye, becaufe he is perfeft and Almighty, and not be- 
 caufe he wanteth power. God cannot make you to be 
 a man and no man, a fub fiance and no fub fiance, in 
 the fame fence, at the fame time : becaufe it is a con- 
 tradiction. 
 
 But if this Argument did not hold, and it were no 
 contradiction, for God to overturn his fetled courfe of 
 Nature, I (hall (hew you next that we have other rea- 
 fons enough to judge that he doth it not. If he 
 Can make darknefs to give Light, and a clod to be 
 to the World inftead of the Sun, without changing it, 
 or a ftone to underftand and fpeak without changing 
 it, yet that God doth none of this, both reafon and ex- 
 perience prove. 
 
 CHAP- 
 
! 
 
 KS>9) 
 
 CHAP. IV, 
 
 The Third Argument againflTranfubftantiation: front 
 the certain falJJwod of their affertion of multitudes of 
 Miracles in it, 
 
 K. HpHat doctrine which afferteth a multitude of 
 L falfe or feigned Miracles is falfe and not of 
 
 God : But fuch is the do&rine of Tranfubftantiation 
 
 E rg0 , 
 
 I will i. Shew you what Miracles it afTerteth ; and 
 2. Prove that they are feigned or falfe. 
 
 I. It is a Miracle for Bread and Wine to be turned irn 
 to no Bread and Wine, yea, into nothing -, and this by 
 the fpeakjng of four Words. 
 
 I I. It is a Miracle ( or Contradiction ) for the 
 Bread and Wine to be turned into Chrifls Body and 
 Blood, and yet neither the matter nor form of it- to be- 
 come any of the matter of Chrifls body and blood. 
 
 III. It is a Miracle, ( or a contradiction rather as 
 aforefaid ) for the Accidents to be the Accidents of i\ft- 
 thing, or no fub fiance -, to be the quantity of Nothing, 
 the Jhape, the number of nothing, the colour j favour, fme 11 
 of nothing, and fo of all the reft. 
 
 I V. It is a Miracle to have all the found fenfes of all 
 forts of men in the world fo deceived herein, as to per* 
 ceive bread, wine and fub fiance, if there be none. 
 
 V. It is a Miracle to have the fenfes of Mice and 
 Rats, and Dogs and other Brutes alfo deceived when 
 they eat and drink ir. 
 
 V I. It is a Miracle ( or contradiction ) to have 
 nothing without a Creation, to become excrements : ot 
 elfe thofe excrements to be nothing alfo : And the 
 
 H 2 Accidents 
 
fioo) 
 
 Accidents of all thofe excrements to be the Accidents 
 of Nothing* 
 
 VII. It is a Miracle to be nouri^ed by Nothing : 
 ( For you fay, that it is not ftmfls body and blood that 
 nourifheth the rlefh. ) To have Hefh and blood made of 
 nothing, is a creation. 
 
 VIII. It is a Miracle to be drunt^whh nothings 
 when xhtWine is annihilated or gone, and fee met h to 
 be it that caufeth the effe& : Yea, for Beaft or man 
 to be fo drunk. 
 
 I X. It is a Miracle ( or contradiction ) for Chrift to 
 eat his own body ( as the Papifts hold he did )• and yet 
 it was his Whole Body which did eat his body, and yet he 
 had but one body. 
 
 X. It was a Miracle ( or contradiction ) for Chrifts 
 entire body to be nourifhed by that eaten body, and that 
 the eaten body turned into the fubftance of his eating 
 body : And yet all was but one. 
 
 . XL It was a Miracle that Chrifts Bate n body being 
 not dead but living with a humane foul , fhould be 
 broken and eaten by him and his difciples, and yet feel 
 no pain by it. 
 
 XII. It was a Miracle that his whole body was on 
 the Crofs h and yet \ art of it in the difciples bellies at 
 that time ■> or at leaft before that eaten by them. 
 
 XIII. It was a Miracle ( or contradiction ) that 
 Chrifts eaten body now nourifheth not the fiefh of any 
 man •, and yet did nourifh the flefh of the difciples be- 
 fore his death. Or if it did not nourifh them, it was a 
 Miracle that what they eat and drank then did not nou- 
 rifh the m, ( or Chrift what he eat and drank ). 
 
 XIV. It was a Miracle that the whole body of 
 Chrift fhould arife and live, and afcend to Heaven, when 
 the difciplej had eaten it. 
 
 XV. 
 
(lOl) 
 
 » X V. It is a Miracle that every Receiver eateth the 
 whole body ofChrift, and not a part, and yet that he 
 hath but one body j or that they eat each a part with- 
 out dividing him. 
 
 XVI. It is a Miracle that as foon as the fpecies of 
 Bread and Wine perifh or ceafe in the Eater, Chrifts 
 body and blood ceafeth to be in him, and this without 
 his detriment. 
 
 XVII. It is a Miracle that there is fuch a local di- 
 ftauce between the confecrated bread and wine all over 
 the world ■ and yet no fuchdiftance between the parts of 
 Chrifts body, and yet that bread to be his body, 
 
 XVIII. It is a Miracle that bread and wine is An- 
 nihilated or ceafe every Mafs, and yet that the quanti- 
 ty of corporeal matter in the whole world is no whit 
 diminifhed : or elfe that thofe four words can fo anni- 
 hilate and diminifh the matter of the world. 
 
 XIX. It is a Miracle that Chrifts body and blood 
 increafe not, when fo many millions ofparcells of bread 
 and wine are turned into it. 
 
 XX. It is a Miracle that Chrifts body and blood is 
 not diminifhed, when by the Corruption of the fpecies 
 of bread <*nd wine, it vanifheth away. 
 
 XXI. It is a Miracle that Chrifts body and blood 
 fhould be fo received into the bowels of a wicked man, 
 and yet not be any way defiled by his (in, nor by his 
 bodily uncleannefs. 
 
 XXII. It is a Miracle that a Raker difpofitively , and 
 a Prieft effectually can make his own God, and eat him 
 when they have done. 
 
 X X 1 1 1. It is a Miracle that when Worms are 
 bred of that which was bread and wine, thefe worms are 
 really generated of nothings created • f or if as fome 
 fay, the bread and wine do fubftantially return again, 
 and breed them, that is another, a double miracle. ) 
 
 H3 XXIV. 
 
(102) 
 
 XXIV. And it is a Miracle that the Corporeal 
 matter of the world fhould by thefe Worms be daily in- 
 creafed, out of nothing, or out of meer accidents that 
 have no fubftance. 
 
 XXV. It is a Miracle that men may be poyfoned 
 by the Sacramental Elements as ingredients in the mix- 
 ture, and yet that they are no fubftance. 
 
 XXVI. It is a Miracle or Contradidion,that when 
 flejh and blood ( formally fuch ) enter not into the King- 
 dom of God, but Glorified bodies are all fpiritual bo- 
 dies ( though not Spirits ), and therefore not fiejh and 
 blood : Yet Chrifts body in the Sacrament fhould be 
 truly and properly fiejl) and blood , and yet the fame 
 with his glorified body ( which is not flefh and 
 Wood : ) which is the Papifts doftrine j and the bread 
 turned into fLchflefh. 
 
 XXVII. It is a Miracle that the fame Body which 
 in Heaven is brighter in Glory than the Sun, and exalt- 
 ed above Angels, fhould yet fhew no figns of Glory on 
 the Altar , in the Cup, in the hand, mouth or beliy of him 
 that taketh it h but all its Glory be fo hid. 
 
 XXVIII. It is a Miracle ( or Contradiction ) that 
 Chrifts Humiliation ftiouldbe paft, and his whole Body 
 Glorified, and yet that to be torn with the teech of a 
 wicked man, to be eaten by Mice, Rats or Dogs, to go 
 into the filthy guts, to be trodden in the dirt, fhould be 
 neither painful, nor any diminution of the Glory of 
 that fame body. Indeed his body on the Crofs might 
 be broken, and his blood fpilt and trodden on, becaufe 
 he was a facririce for fin ; and it was the time of his Vo- 
 luntary Humiliation : But now for the fuffering of 
 deaih he is crowned with Glory and Honour , Hcb. 
 2.9,7. 
 
 XXIX. It is a Miracle that the Living Body of our 
 Glorified Redeemer fhould give no evidence or fign of 
 
 life : 
 
life ; neither ftir, nor fpeak, nor have breath , pulfe, 
 warmth, or other property of life appearing. 
 
 XXX, It is a Miracle, at lead, thu/lejlj fhould have 
 none of the common notes or properties of fle/h, not 
 to be made of food, of blood and chyme, not to con- 
 fill of the fibra which fleih confifteth of - y not to 
 have the colour, tafte, odour or other fuch accidents of 
 flefh : And that Blood fhould have none of thefe noti- 
 fying accidents of blood. 
 
 XXXI. It is a Miracle or Contradiction , that 
 Chrifis FleJJ} was Broken before it was broken , facri- 
 ficed before it was facrificed, I mean really broken and 
 facrificed at his Supper, when yet he was whole and 
 not really facrificed till he was nailed to the Crofs. And 
 fo that his blood was really and properly fhed in his 
 Supper, and yet no skin broken, nor his blood really 
 fhed till his fide was pierced on the Crofs. And that 
 he that was but once offered and Jacnficcd, fhould yet be 
 offered and facrificed once on one day, and another 
 time on another day. 
 
 Here are one and thirty Miracles or Contradictions : 
 Let us hear fome of the Aggravations of them, as wor- 
 thy to be confidered. 
 
 I. It is a Miracle of thefe Miracles, that there fhould 
 be as many Miracle workers asPriefts in the world : 
 How many thoufand are they in France alone ? And fo 
 in many other Countreys. Whereas in Cbrifts own time, 
 they were comparatively but few. 
 
 I I. That the Pope or any Prelate can make a Mi- 
 racle worker when he pi eafe, yea, a thoufand - y as if the 
 Holy Ghoft were at his will. 
 
 III. It is a Miracle of thefe Miracles that a Simonift 
 who buyeth the Priefthood with money, doth buy the 
 Holy Ghoft to work Miracles for that money, which 
 Simon Metgm was condemned for thinking poffible. 
 
 H* For 
 
( 104; 
 
 For the Papifts hold, that the Confecration of a Simoni- 
 a.cal Prieft traniubftantiateth.' 
 
 IV. It is a Miracle that all this power of Miracles 
 fhould be given to flagitious wicked men ^ Adulterers, 
 Murderers, Drunkards, &c. 
 
 V. It is a Miracle that all thefe men can work Mira- 
 cles at their own will an'dfleafure^ at any hour : where- 
 as the Apoflles had not the Spirit at command, and 
 could not do it when they would. 
 
 VI. It is a Miracle that Miracles fhould be as com- 
 mon as Maffes, or the Euchariftical worshipping of 
 God i ' not only on every Lords Pay in all Church-af- 
 femblies , but any day or hour elfe in the Week, 
 And fo Miracles be as ordinary almoft as to eat and 
 drink/ 
 
 V 1 1. It is a Miracle that every wicked Prieft fhould 
 do fo many Aliracles in one , and fo many more in 
 number than Chriji him f elf did, in the fame proporti- 
 on of time, as far as the Hiftory of the Gofpel telleth 
 us : Chrift is quite exceeded by them all. 
 
 V 1 1 1« It is a Miracle that every wicked Prieft can 
 work all thefe Miracles fo eafly y as with the carelefs 
 faying over four words : When the j4pofllcs could not 
 cait out fome Devils, or work fome Miracles, and fome 
 could not be done but by f aft ing and payer. 
 
 I X. It is a Miracle that every Prieft can work all 
 thefe Miracles upon an unbeliever or a wicked man : 
 For to fuch they fay, it is the real fleft and blood of 
 (jhrifiy and no bread or wine ^ And the fenfes of all 
 thefe wickgd men are deceived. Whereas Chtift him- 
 felf could not do any great miraculous w or i^among fome 
 where he came, becaufe of their unbelief 
 
 X. It is a Miracle that Cod and the Trie ft fhould do 
 thefe forefaid Miracles on Mice and Rats and other 
 fcafts, by deceiving their fenfes, which we find not 
 
 that 
 
that Chrift ever did : or that God fhould feed them with 
 the miraculous accidents aforefaid. 
 
 X I. It is a Miracle of thefe Miracles that the Prieft 
 can thus eafily work Miracles not only on other crea- 
 tures, but on the glorified body of Qforifi himfelf, ( by 
 the forefaid changes, eH. ) 
 
 XII. Ic is a Miracle, that when Chrift wrought his 
 Miracles ufually before a far fmaller number, thefe 
 Priefts work Miracles thus before or on the fenfes of all 
 the men in the world that will be prefent at the Mafs ^ 
 for all their fenfes are deceived. 
 
 XIII. It is a Miracle that the Aballines, Armeni- 
 ans, Greeks, Protectants, yea, 
 
 any that they call Schifma- nd.Aquw. 3.^.82. a.j.c. 
 ticks, and Hereticks, who do 
 
 not intend to work any Miracle, nor believe Tranfub- 
 ftantiation,do yet work Miracles in each Sacramental ad- 
 ministration of the Eucharift , not only without their 
 knowledge, but contrary to their belief, and againfi their 
 wills : For they fay, that even fuch mens confecration 
 is effectual. 
 
 XIV. Either their Priefts confecration worketh all 
 thefe Miracles, when they 
 
 intend it not, fas if they ?'U.^quin.^.q.6^.a. 9 . 
 fpeak the words in jeaft or 
 
 fcorn, or in Infidelity, ) or only when they intend it. 
 If the firft be faid, it is a Miracle of Miracles, that any 
 Prieft can work fo many and great Miracles by a jeaft 
 
 or fcorn —If not, then all the bufinefs is come 
 
 to nothing, and no one but the Prieft knoweth whether 
 there be any fuch Miracle at all, and whether ever he 
 eat the flefli of Chrift : And fo it will be in the power of 
 the Prieft to deceive and damn all the people, according 
 to the Papifts etfpofition of Chrifts words, Joh.6. Except 
 ye eat the fie fh of the Son of man and drink his bloody you 
 'have no life in yon* X V. 
 
(ib6) 
 
 X V. Either a malicious intention te a wrong end will 
 be eifc&ual in Confeeration, or not. If not, none but 
 the Prieft knoweth that there is auy body and blood of 
 Chrift, or that ever he received any : Becaufe none 
 knoweth though the Prieft intend Confeeration, whe- 
 ther he intend it to a right end. But if a wicked end 
 will ferve ( as I think mod of them hold ) the Miracle 
 may be great and fad. For any Roguifh drunken mali- 
 cious Prieft may undo a Baker or Vintner at his plea- 
 fure, and by four words deprive him of all his Bread 
 and Wine : Yea, he might nullifie all ihe Bread and 
 Wine in theCYry, and fo either make a famine at his 
 pleafure, or elfe make whole Families and Cities live ftill 
 and be nourifhed without any fubftance by bare Acci- 
 dents, which would be a Miracle indeed. 
 
 If the Prieft can by confeeration change only a con* 
 venient quantity of bread and wine , then all that is 
 ever much is bread and wine after confeeration. If 
 otherwife, why may he not change all the bread and 
 wins in the Shop or Cellar where hecometh, intending 
 confeeration to an ill end ? 
 
 If he can do it only on the Altar , then want of an 
 Altar would fruftrate the effed: ( which they hold 
 not ). But if he can do it without an Altar he may do 
 it in the Shop and Cellar, 
 
 If he can do it only on the bread and wine prefent, 
 how near rnuft it be ? Then the words will work at fo 
 many yards diftance, and not at fo many. Or if he can- 
 not do it out of fight , a blind Prieft cannot doit. But 
 if he can do it on that which is abfent , we may fear 
 left in an anger be may take away all the bread and 
 wine in the Land ^ at leaft in a frolick to try his 
 power. 
 
 XV", 
 
Cio7; 
 
 XVI. And it is fonr.e aggravaion of thefe manifold 
 Miracles that a Degraded 
 
 Trie ft can do them : Because v& Aquw. 3. ? . 82. a. 2. 
 they follow the indelible Cha- 
 racter : And fo he that hath. once made a Miracle- 
 I worker, cannot take away his power again, nor his fin 
 lofe his power* Is not this a marvellous power of Mi- 
 racles, which becometh like a nature to them , as the 
 power of fpeaking is ? 
 
 XVII. Yet is this Miracle-working-power more 
 miraculous, in that a mans own unwillwgnefs , or Re- 
 pentance ot his Calling cannot hinder the Miracle if he 
 do but fpeak four words, frnfent it fe/f is not necef- 
 fary to it : Let a man Repent that ever he was a Trie ft y 
 and profefs that he continued in that Calling againft 
 his will, yea, let him write as I now do again ft Tr an- 
 fubftantiation, yet all this will not hinder his next Con- 
 fecration from working all the forefaid Miracles. 
 
 XVIII. It is miraculous that if you keep a confe- 
 crated Wafer never fo long , if you ufe it never fo 
 courfly, if you ( as he did who occafioned the conver- 
 fion of Mr. Anthony Egan a late Injh Prieft ) pawn it 
 at an Ale-houfe for thirty (hillings •, if you lay it down 
 for a flake at Cards or Dice, &c. it will not ceafe to 
 be Chriftsflejh ( and fo by his blood, ) nor ever becomes 
 bread, or any other fubftance till it corrupt : And yet 
 in a mans ftomach it ceafeth to be Chrifts body, as na- 
 tural heat corrupteth it by conco&ion ; And yet it is 
 not Chrifts flejh that is concocted. 
 
 XIX. It is a Miracle of this Miracle which Aquino* 
 and others afTert, that the Bread and Wine are not An- 
 nihilated , but wholly turned into Chrifts body and 
 blood • and yet, as Fafquez, faith , It is not that the 
 matter of bread begins to be under the form of Qirifts 
 body ( as Dnrandu* hdd.) Saith Veron Reg. fid. cap. 5. 
 
 I This 
 
(io8) 
 
 This Tranfidft an tiat ion is neither a change nor a pro~ 
 duchion of any thing j but it is a Relation of cyder be- 
 tween the fukftance that doth defift to be, and that 
 into which it doth defift. And yet faiih r.he Concil. 
 Trident, There is a change made of the whole fub- 
 fiance into, &c. 
 
 XX. Laftly, It is a Miracle that all thefe Miracles 
 fhould be done fo as not to appear to the fenfes of 
 any man living, either to Convert Unbelievers or Con- 
 firm the faithful : So that millions of thefe Miracles are 
 fun and not feen » the Pried, and A&ion, and Acci- 
 dents are fcen, but no Miracle fcen by any. vSo that 
 Aminos concludeth 3. q. 76. a % 7, [Though Chrift be 
 exifcent in this Sacrament per median- ptbftantia , yet 
 neither bodily eyes, nor our Intellects can fee him, but 
 by faith: no nor the IztclU'il oj an Angel can fee him 
 fecundum fua naturalia 5 nor do Devils fee him but by 
 faith -, nor the blefied, but in the Divine EfTence ,~] 
 
 All thefe make thefe Miracles far more miraculous 
 than the railing of Lazarus from the dead. 
 
 WHether all thefe are Miracles, ormoftormany 
 of them Contradictions , and therefore Impof- 
 fibilities, I make no great matter of at this time. I 
 think it utterly needlefs to add any more to what is faid 
 in anfwer to fuch fayings as Aquinas ( 3. q. 75. 
 &' 76.) and other Schoolmen, that [The fenfes arc not 
 deceived, bee aujc there are the Accidents, and the Jn- 
 telleti is by faith prefcrved from deception : that the 
 remaining accidents are in quantirate dimenliva quail 
 in fubjefto : that thefe Accidents can change an cx- 
 trinfick^body, ean be corrupted, can generate Worms, 
 can nourifti, can be broken, eVc. ] I or ail this at lead 
 corifefTcth, that its all done by Miracle ; ( Though I 
 
 will 
 
(icp) 
 
 will fay, i . That they could fcarce have chofen a more 
 unhappy pro-fubje& of Accidents than Quantity, nor 
 have given more unhappy reafons for it than Aquinas 
 doth q. 77. a. 2. c. 1. Becaufe the fen fe perceiveth 
 that it is Aliquid quantum, that is coloured, 2, Be- 
 caufe Quantity is the frfi difpofnion of matter , &c. 
 For this includeth matter : and Aliquid quantum is a 
 word that giveth away his Caufe : And no Accident 
 is more the fame with its fubjeft than Quantity , or 
 moles extenfiva. 2. And he will be long before he 
 will make or prove mans nature to be fuch , as that 
 his Intellect can judge of fubftances by Believing, as 
 incomplex objects, before it have perceived them by 
 fenfeand imagination. When we fee, tafte, fmell, feel, 
 hear them, the Intellect will fuddenly and neceflarily 
 have fome fpecics or perception of the Thing , before 
 it come Logically to difpute from e xtrmfick^ media of 
 Teftimony , What this thing is in a fecond notion. 
 And our queftion is, Whether the Intellect: in thU 
 firft Perception be deceived, or not ? If you difcharge 
 the Intellect from perceiving fubftances prefently , 
 before it know them by fecond notions or Argument, 
 you will make man quite another thing , than every 
 hour and a&ion tells us he is : But what will not a man 
 fay, when he fets himfelf only to ftudy what to fay for 
 the making good of his undertaken Caufe ? 
 
 But my next work is to prove the Fallhood of thefe 
 pretended Miracles. 
 
 CHAP* 
 
( no; 
 
 CHAP. V. 
 
 The Minor proved, viz. That thefe Miracles are 
 
 Mi. 
 
 THat thefe are all but feigned Miracles, I thus prove. 
 I. Becaufe the holy Scriptures do plainly deny 
 fuch an ordinarinefs or commonnefs of the gift of Mi- 
 racles, i Cor. 12. 8, 9, io, 1 1. £ To one is given by the 
 fpirit the word of Wifdom^ to another the word of Know- 
 ledge by the fame fpirit, to another faith by the Jame 
 fpirit, to another the gifts of healing by the fame fpi- 
 rit y to another the working of miracles, &c. But all 
 thefe worketh that one and the ft If fame fpirit • divi- 
 ding to every man fever ally as he wilL 28, 29. tAnd 
 God hath fet fome in the Church, firfi Apofiles } fecon- 
 darily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that miracles, 
 then gifts of healing, helps, Governments, diver fities of 
 tongues : Are all Apo files I are all Prophets ? are all 
 Teachers ? are all workers of Miracles, \ 
 
 Here it is mod exprefly told us, that working Mi- 
 racles is a peculiar gift of fome, and even in thofe 
 times not common to all that were Priefts. But the 
 Papifts make it common to every Prieft, though a com- 
 mon Adulterer, Drunkard, Murderer or Heretick ^ no 
 one Prieft in the world is without it. 
 
 1 1. Though fome few that were workers of iniquity 
 might have fome fuch gifrs, <sJP{atth. 7. Yet that was 
 fo rare, that Nature it felf taught men to judge Mira- 
 cles to be figns of divine approbation ; fo that Nico- 
 demm thence argueth, Joh. 3.2. No man could do thefe 
 Miracles that thou dofi except God be With him. And 
 
 the 
 
(Ill) 
 
 he man Joh. 9.31. God heareth not (inner s, but if any 
 man be a Worfnipper of God and doth his will, him he 
 heareth. And the people, verf. 16. How can a man 
 that is a finner do fuch Miracles ? And it was Chrifts 
 own proof that he was of God, and his Gofpel true - y 
 and therefore to Blafpheam his Miracles , by afcribing 
 them to the Devil, was the unpardonable Blafyhemy 
 of the Holy Ghoft : And to deny Miracles to be a fign 
 of Gods atteftation is to fubvert all Chriftianity. A ft. 
 2. 22. Jefui of Nazareth a man approved of God among 
 you by miracles, wonders and figns which Cjod did by 
 him in the midfi of you — Joh. 5. 36. The fame works 
 that I do bear witnefs of me that the Father hath fent 
 me. Joh. 10. 25, 37, 38. The works that I do in my 
 
 Fathers name, they bear witnefs of me Jf / 
 
 do not the works of my Father, believe me not : But if I 
 do, though ye believe not me, believe the works, that ye 
 may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I 
 in him* 
 
 Joh. 14. 1 1. Believe me for the very works fakg. 
 
 Joh. 15.24. If 1 had not done among them the works 
 that no other man did, they had not had fin* 
 
 This alfo was Pauls proof of his Apoftlefhip, yea 
 and of the truth of all the Apoftles 
 do&rine : Heb. 2. 5, 4. God alfo bearing 2 cor. 12. 12. 
 them witnefs both with figns and wonders, AftTi'.V 9 ' 
 and divers Miracles, and gifts of the &I5- 1 -- 
 Holy Ghoft, according to his own Will. 
 
 Therefore that Doctrine is unlike to be 
 true, which tells us that every wicked ^ Iatth - 21 - 1 ^ 
 Trie ft in the world, though a Simonift, or 
 an enemy of (fhrift and Godlinefi, and drown din all 
 Vice, is fuch a ermftant miracle -worker : When God 
 hateth all the workers of iniquity, Pfal. 5.5. 
 
 III. But 
 
Cirt) 
 
 III. Eut though this Reafon be but probable, this 
 following is demon ftrative to a believer. 
 
 That dotlrine which makcth every Ignorant wicked or 
 Heretical Trie ft in the world, far toexcell the Prophets, 
 Apoftles, and Qirift hiwfclf, in the Greatnefs, Number 
 and facility of Miracles, is falfe : But fuch is this 
 doBrinc of Tranfubftantiation - — 
 
 I know that Chrift telleth his Apoftles^GV^ e r works 
 than thefe fiall ye do. ~\ But i . There are Greater 
 -works ( fuch as the converting of greater numbers-ill the 
 World ) which are not Greater Miracles : 2. And 
 what was promifed to the Apoftles, as to Miracles, was 
 not promifed to every Trie ft in the world. 
 
 I appeal to the Consciences of fober Christians, whe- 
 ther it found not as ah arrogant if not blafpheamous 
 fpeech, to fay that Chrift and his Apoftles did fewer and 
 [mailer miracles ( proportionable to their time ) than 
 every Trie ft. 
 
 And as to the Minor, it is foon proved in its parts. 
 
 1. As to the Greatne§ of the Miracles \ thofe of 
 Chrift were exceeding Great : efpecially his Raifwg 
 Lazarus, and his own Refurrelhion, his turning water 
 'into Wine, and his feeding thoufands with a little 
 
 food But he that will examine Tranfibftantia- 
 
 tion as afore-defcribed, (hall find it to have more that 
 is contrary to nature, than all thefe, by far. The fubftance 
 of the dead body of Chrift or Lazarus did not vanish, 
 but remained to be the organized Recipient' matter of 
 the re-entring foul. There were no Accident's without 
 fubftances, or other fuch things as are mentioned be- 
 •fore. The multiplying of food, could at the inoft be 
 tut 3.' new Creation •, But it was real food, and none of 
 the contradictions or abfurdities before recited. The 
 turning of Water into Wine was like ft this in the Papifts 
 opinion - ? but indeed little like it. lor the matter of the 
 
 Water 
 
water there remained, with the firm of Wine, and fa 
 became the Matter of Wine, and did not vanijh i And 
 here was real Wi?ie, and real fub fiance, and not Ac- 
 cidents without fubjlances, deceiving all the fenfes or 
 JntelleElual perceptions. The fame may be faid of the 
 miracles cf the Apoftles, compared with Tranfubftan- 
 tiation. 
 
 2. And as to the Number, though Chuifts and his 
 Apoftles Miracles Were very many, yet there is no 
 Scripture-evidence that they were for number compa- 
 rable ( for fo much time) to every Priefls. Chriffa 
 miracles are fet down in the facred hiftory in fttch or- 
 der, and the Evangelifts fo much agree in reciting the 
 fame miracles, that ( though $t. John fay ) the world 
 
 could not contain the Books that foouldbe written 
 
 yet we find no probability that they were neer fo com- 
 
 , mon as Majfes are * when in feveral places where Chrift 
 came, they that looked after Miracles and Signs were 
 denyed them, and had none, but were put off to the fign 
 of the Prophet Jonah, &c. Yea Herod and Pilate were 
 in this denyed their defired fatisfattion • and they that 
 call to him for a miracle on the Crofs. Andfo of the 
 Apoftles. But every Prieft doth his miracles as eft at 
 there is a Mafs, though every day 4 
 
 3. And as to the Facility I faid before^that [in his 
 own (Country, among his own kjndred, he could do no 
 mighty work^fave that he layed his hands on a few fick^ 
 
 folk^and healed them, and he marvelled at their unbelief \ 
 Mark 6. 4, 5, 6. And he fome time groaned in Jpirit 9 
 and wept, fas for Lazarus), And the Difciples could not 
 cafl out a Devil , Mar. 9. 18^28. Luk.9.40* It was 
 not to be dune but by fafttng and prayer. Its like Paul 
 would have cured Trophimm if he could, when he left 
 him fick* And as holy men fpakc, not when, nor as 
 they pleafed, but when and as they wtre infpired by the 
 
 I Hty 
 
fii4) 
 
 Holy Ghoft : fo did they work^ miracles, not arbitrarily, 
 but at fuch times and in fuch manner as the fpirit moved 
 them. 
 
 But any the moft wicked Prieft can do it at his plea- 
 fure, any hour of the day : and that but by reciting Hoc 
 eft corpus me urn. Many other difparities appear in what 
 is faid before. 
 
 IV. The End of the Gift of Miracles confuteth the 
 feigned Miracles of Tranfubftantiation. The End of 
 Chrifts gift was to prove him to be of God ( as is afore- 
 fhewed ) and to prove his Apo files to he of God, and to 
 confirm the Gofpel which they Preached, Mar. 16. 
 17, 1 8, 19, 20. Heb. 2. 4. As the gift of Tongues fo 
 other wonders, were to convince unbeliever s y j Cor. 14. 
 AA. 2. &4. 30. & 5. 12. &7. 36. & 8. 13. & 14.3. 
 2 Cor. 12. 12. 
 
 But the miracles of Tranfubftantiation are known to 
 no unbeliever •, nor to any one in the world by any fenfe ^ 
 and have no fuch End, but a contrary effed. 
 
 The Apoftles who were to convert the world, and 
 next Chrift, to do the greateft good, were therefore to do 
 the greateft miracks : And it was their argument for 
 Chrift, Joh.7. 31* When fimft cometh mil he do more 
 miracles than thefe which this man hath done . ? Yet now 
 every ignorant Prieft pretendeth to far more, who doth 
 but tempt Infidels to deride Chriftianity by the pretence ; 
 as we do Mahometanifm, for Mahomet s fport pretended 
 With the Moon, and other fuch delirations. 
 
 V. God is not to be faid to work Miracles and crofs 
 the eftablifhed courfe of nature without proof. But 
 thefe pretended Miracles have no proof No man liv- 
 ing perceiveth them by fenfe. And that God telleth us 
 of no fuch things by fupernatural Revelation, fhall be 
 further (hewed anon : In the mean time, it may fatisfie 
 
 us, 
 
fMf) 
 
 us, that they bring us no proof, but their own affirma- 
 tion, which they require us to believe. 
 
 VI. The Matter of thefe pretended Miracles is ex- 
 prefly contradicted by the W6rd of God, as fhall be 
 proved in the next Chapter. 
 
 VII. Adhominem • Do not the Papifts forget them- 
 felves here, and contradict 
 
 their Other fuppofltions ? So they do by forbidding to eat Flefh 
 
 . T-i , X 0- i^ in L a m : And yet fay they eat Ch rifts 
 
 i . They make Miracles fle(h - Unt .. fc; k i f dt:d by 
 to be one evidence offantli- o&ukmi* com. in i Ten <■. a; bring- 
 
 „ J l. r f> eth in Blandma proving to the Hea- 
 
 ty, and therefore (,anomZ.e tbens that Chriftians did not eat flefh 
 
 men, When they think that and drink blood in the Eucharift, be- 
 
 , '. r i i cauie that th^v u(e even to abftain for 
 
 they have prOOt that they exer cife fake/from Lawful flefh. 
 
 wrought Miracles : And 
 
 yet maintain that a Whoremonger, Drunkard or He- 
 
 retick may do many more. 
 
 2. *They make Miracles a proof that they are the 
 true Church, and fay that among m thefe are 'no Mira- 
 cles ; and yet they eonlefs that every Prieli, among us 
 and all others, whom they account Schifmaticks and He- 
 reticks, do more Miracles than Qbrift ^\ if they confe- 
 crate frequently. 
 
 3. They burn men to allies for -working miracles ^ 
 even for making Cod • if fo be, they do it not in the 
 Roman fafhion. 
 
 4. They confefs that the other Sacraments are not 
 thus made up of Miracles - 9 no not Baptifm, which is our 
 
 "Qiriftening, and wafheth us from our fins: And yet 
 this Sacrament alone , mud by a multitude of Miracles 
 differ from the reft. 
 
 4. Whether the Doctrine of their St. Thomas and 
 his followers and others, that the formal words of this 
 Sacrament have a created effective virtue by which they 
 rnftr urn ent ally make the change ( 3. q. 78. a. 4. c.) be 
 not an "abfurdity rather than a proper miracle. For 
 
 I 2 words 
 
(US) 
 
 ■words Phyfically move but the air firft, and the terminus 
 of the aires motion ( e.g. the ear ) next : and next 
 that, if it be an intelle&ual, or oiher animal recipient, 
 the fenfe, and fantafie next, and fo on : But the Bread - 
 and Wine have no fenfe nor fantafie nor Intellect : And 
 to fay that the moved aire is the means of turning them 
 into the body and blood of Chrift, is ftill to multiply 
 miracles. 
 
 5. Do they not too much magnifie the common rvork^ 
 ( and confequendy the office ) of a Priefi, above the 
 work of a Pope or Prelate, who feldom confecrate ? 
 when the Prieft worketh fo many Miracles more than 
 they? 
 
 <5. They conclude that a (inner that hath Volnntatem 
 feccandi receiveth Baptifm in vain, as to its ends of par- 
 doning him, and therefore fhould not receive it ( Con- 
 cil. Rom, Epift. Gregor. 7. Aquin. 3 . q. 68. a. 4.C. &c .) 
 And yet, be the finner never fuch an hypocrite or Infidel, 
 he eateth Chrifts real flefti nevertheless, yea againft his 
 will, if he do but the outward ad. 
 
 7. Is it not ftrangethat an Infidel receiveth as verily 
 the real flefh and blood of Chrift as a Saint, and yet not 
 the benefits or effects f As if Chrifts flefh and blood 
 could be in a mans body without his benefit : When he 
 hath promifed that he that eateth him, fiiall live by him. 
 Yet fee the meafures of their faith and Church : Saith 
 Aquinas (3. q. 80. a. 3. adz.) [Vnlefs perhaps an In- 
 fidel intend to Receive that which the Church giveth, 
 though he have not true faith about other Art teles or 
 about this Sacrament ~] then he may receive facramen- 
 rally. 
 
 CHAP. 
 
(H7) 
 
 CHAP. VI. 
 
 The fourth <tArg ument. This Mir aculo hs Tranfubftan- 
 tiation is ex pre fly contrary to the Word of God, in 
 Scripture* 
 
 -&&' 4* TpHe Papifts fay that there is no bread after 
 X the words or Confecration : Gods word 
 faith, There is Bread after the Confecration : Therefore 
 the Papifts fpeak contrary to the Word of God. 
 
 I. In i Cor, i i. It is called exprefly BREAD after 
 confecration no Iefs than three times in three verfes to- 
 gether, 26) 27, 28. £ cc For as oft as ye eat this Bread 
 M and Drinks this cup y ye fljcw the Lords death till he 
 <c come, Wherefore whofoever frail cat this Bread and 
 ic drink this cup of the Lord unworthily frail he guilty of 
 Ci the Body and blood of the Lord, But let a man exa~ 
 iC mine himfelf and fo let him eat of that Bread and. 
 drinks of that £up 3 •* Here they that call for exprefs 
 words of Scripture for our doftrine, without our con- 
 fequences, may fee their own faith exprelly contradi&ed, 
 and ouroppofition juftified : The Holy Ghoft here ex- 
 prefly czUeih it Bread: And yet no exprefnefs nor evi- 
 dence will fatisfie them. 
 
 P f By Bread is meant that which was Bread before, 
 or elfe that which nourifruth the foul as Bread doth the, 
 body : And fo it is metonymically only called Bread, 
 as Chrifts Flefti is called Bread in J oh, 6. 
 
 R, Why then do you call for exprefs texts of Scri- 
 pture as our proof, when that exprefnefs fignifleth no- 
 thing with you •, but you can fay, It is a metonymie 
 or a metaphor at your pleafure. But you fay fo againft 
 notorious Evidence ; The Apoftle calleth it Bread fo 
 
 I 5 often 
 
fn8) 
 
 often over and over, as if he had forefeen your in- 
 humane herefie : He calleth it The Bread which u to 
 he Eat en j joyned with Drinking the fop -, never 
 once- calling either of them the Flcfti or Blood of 
 Chrift, but as he recketh Chrifts words which he 
 expoundeth. Yea he tellech us that eating this bread, 
 and drinking this cup, is to Jlicw the Lords death till he 
 cor.ie j where he calleth us to look back at Chrifts death 
 aspaft, in our Commemoration, and to loo\ forward to 
 his perfonal coming as future - 5 but never telleth us that 
 we muft kill Chrift and eat him our felves (' when we 
 have made him), nor that his body is there prefent un- 
 der the accidents of Bread and Wine; 
 
 But the reft of the Scriptures as exprefly juftifie our 
 do Anne, i Cor. 10. 15. The Cup of bleffmg which we 
 b'ujs, is it not the Communion ( or Communication ) of 
 the blood of fiorift : And the Bread which we breaks, i> 
 it not the communion for participation ) of the body of 
 Chrift ? J Here it is the £up and the Bread after Confed- 
 eration, if the Holy Ghoft may be believed. 
 
 And in the next words the Apoitle repeateth it in his 
 reafon \For we being Many are One Bread, and One 
 Body \ For we all partake of one Bread ( or Loaf). ] 
 "Is not here exprefs proof? 
 
 So At'h 20. 7. When we came together to break* 
 
 Bread And v. 11. He afc ending, and break? 
 
 ing bread, and eating &c. Here it is twice more called 
 'jf?mrdTaf:er the Qo-nfecration (which ever went before 
 the Breaking J. 
 
 So Act. 2. 42, 46. It is twice more called Breaking 
 cf Bread. 
 
 And whatelfe can the recitation of Chrifts inftitution 
 mean, 1 Cor. 11. ijL 24. Pancm accept (ft, f re gi§e -, 
 to have taken Bread, and hiving given thankj, to have 
 broken ? What is it that he brake f \ti fcori-ienCe if it 
 
 h ive 
 
( "P) 
 
 have no accufative cafe that it refpeds ? And plai n 
 Grammatical conftrudion tells us then, that it muft be 
 that before mentioned, What he Took*, he bleffed y and 
 brake and gave : But he tool^. Bread and the Cup . The 
 fame is in Mat. 26, 26, 27. and the other Evangelifts. 
 
 II. The Scriptures expreily ( Acl.z^&c.) make the 
 Killing of fortfl^ and drawing his blood, to be the hey- 
 nous fin of the Jews, for which fome Repented and 
 others were call: off : Therefore it is not to be believed 
 that Chrift did firft kJM or tear him f elf ^ and JW his own 
 blood ^ or that his diiciples did kill him, or tear his fiefh 
 and fried his blood, before the Jews did it. And if 
 they tore his flefh and drank his blocd, and yet killed 
 him not, the event altered not the fad 1 The Jews did 
 but break, his flejh and floed his blood. If you fly to a 
 good intention^ Paul will come in for fome further ex- 
 cufc for his perfecution. 
 
 III. 1 Cor. 10. 21. Te cannot drink* the cup of the 
 Lord, and the cup of Devils : Te cannot be partakers of 
 the Lords table and of the table of Devils* — Here 
 note 1 . That the fame phrafe is ufed of the Participa- 
 tion of the Lords myftzrks and the Devils, But it was 
 not the flefh and blood or the fubflance of Devils which 
 the Idolaters ever intended to partake of : but only 
 their facrifices, 
 
 2. It is here called only the Table and the Cup, and 
 not the flejl) and the blood. 
 
 "3. It is faid that They could not partake of both : 
 whereas according to the Papifts doctrine, if a man 
 fhould partake of the Idols facrifce in the morning, 
 and of the Lords Table in the evening ( without repen- 
 tance, ) he fhould really partake of Q)rifls own 
 flefh and blood • which the Text faith cannot be 
 done. 
 
 P, It meaneth only, You cannot Lawfully, or you 
 I 4 ought; 
 
ought not to partake of both, but not that it is impojfible 
 or never dene. 
 
 R. No doubt but it meaneih that They ought not, or 
 cannot Lawfully-^ but thats no: all : The text plainly 
 meaneth, Ton cannot have communion with both : You 
 may take the bread and wine at your peril t but you can- 
 pot partake of it as a facramental feafi which God pre- 
 pared you, and fo partake of Chrift iherein. 
 
 And the fame is faid ( expounding this) 2Cor.6.i5;. 
 
 What concord hath Chrifi with Belial * and what 
 
 agreement hath the temple of God with Idols . ? J Inti- 
 mating that Communion with God and Idols, Chrift and 
 Belial, are ( f o far) inconfiftent :• But by the Papifts 
 do&rine an Idolater and Son of Belial may partake of 
 the very fubflance of Chrifts body and blood, into his 
 fody> as verily as he partaketh of his meat and drink. 
 
 IV. The Scripture teacheth us exprefly to judg.e of 
 fenfible things by fenfe. Luk, 24. 39. [_Behold my hands 
 and my feet, that it is I my felf : handle me, and fee ■ 
 for' a fpirit hath not fleflj and bones as ye fee ml have* 
 And when he had thus fpok*n, he foewed them his hands 
 ■ and his feet ^\ And v. 43, \he dideat before thcm~] to 
 confirm their faith. But they could have no more fen- 
 fible evidence of any of this, than we have of the being 
 of Bread and Wine, or fome fenfible fubftance after 
 Confecraiion. Joh. 2. 9. they taftedthe water turned 
 into Wine, and were convinced. 
 
 P, But the Body of Chrift here is not a fenfible thing. 
 R. But Bread and Wine are frnfible things. 
 P. BuiTheyare not There \ and fo are no objeds of 
 fenfe. 
 
 #. But all our fenfes fay that They are there ^ and 
 by them we muft judge. 
 
 P. Your fenfes perceive nothing but Accidents : and 
 your understanding mnfl believe Qod, and io (as you 
 
 noted 
 
(121) 
 
 noted oqt of Aquinas before) there is no deceit either 
 of fenfe or Intellect. 
 
 R, Though this be anfwered fully before, I will again 
 tell you, That thefe two notorious falihoods are all that 
 you have to fay againft Humanity in this cafe, thats 
 worth the noting. I. Itisfalfethat you fay that fenfe 
 perceiveth not fubfiance ; When I take up a ftatf or 
 ftone in my hand, I do not only feel Roughnefs or 
 Smooihnefs, &c, but a. fub fiance : It is a quantitative, 
 and qualitative fubftance, which I feel, talte, fmell, fee 
 and hear : And this I perceive by fenfation it felf, as the 
 medium to the Intellect, It is not the fenfe indeed, but 
 the Intellect that giverh it the Logical notion or defini- 
 tion of zfubftancc ^ but it is the fenfe it felf that by fen- 
 fation perceivetb it •, and to deny this is to deny all fenfe. 
 And if it were not fo, How could any finch fub fiance 
 be known ? when it cannot come into the Intellect but by 
 the fenfe ? 
 
 1 1, fly* Your great cheat ( or errour ) is by con- 
 founding the firft and natural-necefiary perception of a 
 fenfibile ft nj alum or incomplex objeti^ by the Intellect, 
 with the fecond conception of the Names of things, or 
 of Organical fecond notions, and the third conception of 
 them Artificially by the ufe of thefe names and Organi- 
 cal notions, and the fourth perception of Confequents 
 from thole conceptions. To know by Believing is but 
 the third or fourth fort of knowledge, and prefup- 
 pofeth the two firft. If a man had never heard a name 
 or word in his life ^ yet by fenfation as foon as he faw, 
 fmelt, tafted, heard, handled things, his Inteflctl would 
 have had a pe rception oftheTbing it felf as it was ; 'fen fate ^ 
 And this is the Intellects firft perception : And this is it 
 which falleth under our queftion, Whether the Intellect 
 in thii fir ft perception of a fub fiance or Thing as fenfate, 
 be deceived or not, when the Thing harh the Conditions 
 
 of 
 
(122) 
 
 of an object before mentioned. 2. Next this we learn or 
 invent Names and organic al notions for things : And 
 whether thefe be true or falfe, and whether they be apt 
 or inept is all one. This is but an arbitrary work of 
 art. 3. Next this we conceive of things by the Means 
 of thefe Names and fccond notions , and examine the 
 Congruence : and fo we define them : And this is bu: a 
 work of .Artificial Reafo?;ing, and prefuppofeth the firft 
 ■Natural neccjfary perception. Now Faith belongeth 
 partly to this, and partly to the fourth, which is The 
 railing of Conclufions, and the weaving of methods ; 
 and prefuppofeth the firft, yea and the fecond : It is but 
 an aflent given by the means of an Extrinfick Teftimony 
 of God, that this particular Word is True, &c. Now 
 if the Intellect in its firft Perception ( natural and ne~ 
 ceffary ) of the Thing it [elf, as fenfate, be deceived, 
 if faith fhould be contrary to it, 1 .It muft be fuch a 
 Faith which is the immediate contrary perception of a 
 fen fate obje'Ci - 5 which is no faith , nor is any luch poilible, 
 f properly called faith ) : 2. And if faith can come af- 
 ter and undeceive the Intellect, by faying that God faith 
 otherwife, yet this would be no prevention of its decepti- 
 on, but a cure, prefuppofing the faid deception as the di- 
 feafe to be cured. So that to fay as Aquinas thar faith 
 preventeth the deceit of the JnteHeEi, is a fa Ifhood con- 
 trary to the nature of man, and his natural way of act- 
 ing, as he is compofed of foul and body. 
 
 I have faid this over again, left errour get advantage 
 by the brevity and unobfervednefs of that which I faid 
 before. 
 
 
 CHAP 
 
("3) 
 
 CHAP. VII. 
 
 Argum. 5. All thefe miracles have not the leaft proofs 
 yea> the Scriptures fully dlretl its to a crofs interpre- 
 tation of the Papijh pretended proofs - 5 which alfo are 
 renounced by themfelves. 
 
 I Know cf no Scripture proof in the World that the 
 Papifts pretend to, but the words, This is my Body, 
 and This is my Bloody and fuch like. And that thefe are 
 no proof I (hall fully prove to any impartial man. 
 
 I. The very nature of the Sacrament inftitured by 
 Chrift with his expreffed End, command our Reafon 
 to expound the word ["is] of fignijication^ reprefenta- 
 
 J tion Or exhibition, and the word [Body] and [Blood] 
 of a new Relative form only, that is, of a body and 
 
 : blood Reprefentative, ( which is all one in effect ) : As a 
 
 ] piece of Gold, Silver, or Brafs, is by the law and ftamp 
 turned really into the Kings Current Coine •> and fo hath 
 
 ; a new Relative form : fo that ycu may truly fay that 
 there is a change made of the Gold, or Silver into the 
 Kings Coyn : and it is no more to be called meer Gold or 
 Silver ( though it be Gold and Silver frill), becaufe the 
 form denominated, and the new form is now that in 
 queftion which mull denominate. Or as a Prince that 
 is marryed in effigie or by a Reprefentative to a wo- 
 man, is not there perfonally •, and yet it is aptly faid, 
 This is the Prince which is betrothed or marryed to thee* 
 Of as we fay of Pi&ures, This is Peter, or Paul, cr 
 John. Or as when we deliver a man poflTeflion of a 
 
 Ho ufe 
 
(124J 
 
 Ho fife by a Key, or of Land by a tmg and a turf 7 or of 
 a Qmirch by the be trope, &c. and fay, Take, this is 
 f*ch a Ho fife , or finch a piece of Land, or Church, &c. 
 As this is ordinary intelligible (peech among all men, fo 
 Chrift tells them that he would be founderftood. 
 
 1. In that his Real natural body fpaks this, of the 
 Bread and Wirt e which was wr his natural body : His 
 real na ural body was prefent, vilible, entire, unwound- 
 ed, his blood unipilt, and did eat and drink (the other, 
 as the Papifts hold, as being the fume ) : And can any 
 living man imagine that the Difciples who underftood 
 not his Death, Refurre&ion, Afcenfion, &c. yet un- 
 derftood by thefe four words, when th y faw Chrifts 
 body alive and pre&nt, that this Bread and Wine was 
 that fame Body and Blood, without any more quell i- 
 oning ? 
 
 2. In that he bids them, Do this in Remembrance cf 
 him . which plainly fpeaketh a commemorating llgn : 
 Who will fay at his Iaft farewell when he is parting with 
 his friends, / will flay among you, or keep me among you, 
 in Remeyy.br ance of me ? So for Chrift to fay, Jiat me in 
 remembrance of ?fce,were flrange. 
 
 1 1. It may put all out of Controverfie to find, that 
 Chrifts words of one half cfthe Sacran.cnt arc (as they 
 confefs) figurative •, therefore the other mull be lo judg- 
 ed alio. Luk, 22. 20. This (fiup is the new Teftament in 
 my blood, which is filled for you : I Cor. 11.25, [This 
 Cup is the new Tv flame nt in my blood,^} And here no 
 man denyeth a double Trope at leaffc : no man expound- 
 ed it, that the Cup or tlie Wine \\\v: the New Teftament 
 it J 'elf And yet it is as expreily laid, as it is that the 
 $rea4i$ the Body it (elf. How men will they prove 
 that ont is fpoken properly, and the other figura- 
 tively? 
 
 HI, There 
 
05J 
 
 III. There is no more found in thele words to a flirt 
 the Br tad to be Chrijls Body , than is found in a multi- 
 tude of fuch phrafes in Scripture aliening things which 
 all men expound othtrwife. As in Joh. 15. 1. / km the 
 Vine and my Father U the hnsbayidman : Joh. 10.7, 9. 
 
 t am the door Joh. 10. 14. I am the good Shepherd 
 
 and know my Sheep : Pfal. 22. 6. 1 am a worm and no 
 man ( which being a propheiie of Chrift, a Heretick imi- 
 tating you, might deny Chrifts humanity :) 1 Cor.10.4. 
 
 That Rock^was Chrift 1 Cor. 12. 27. Te are the 
 
 body of Chrift - Mat. 5. 13, 14. Te are the Salt of the 
 
 earth: Te are the lights of the World Joh. 6. 63. 
 
 The words that I Jpeak^ unto you they are fpirit and 
 they are Life. Abundance fuch are in the Scripture, as 
 Alifiefh is grafs : Chrift is the Lamb of God : the Lyon 
 of the Tribe of Jnda ^ the bright Morning Star ^ the 
 head Corner Stone, ®>c. 
 
 And it is yet more fully fatisfa&ory, that the Hebrew 
 conftantly putteth [_is J for [fignifieth] as you may 
 find in all the old Teftament •, having no other word fo 
 fit to exprefs \_figntfying ~] by : And as Chrift fpake 
 after that manner, fo the New Teftament ordinarily imi- 
 tateth •, As DamelzxA the Revelation agree in faying, 
 of the Virions, This is fuch or fuch a thing, inflead of 
 this fignifieth ir. So Chrift, aj^atth. 13, 21, 22, 
 2 3> 17 •> 38, 39. He that foweth is the Son of man : 
 the field is the world : the good feed are the 
 Children of the Kingdom ; the tares are the children of 
 the wicked one : the enemy is the Devil, the Harveft: 
 
 is the end. The reapers are the Angels And 
 
 thus ordinarily.. 
 
 I V. Yea, the fame kind of phrafe ufed before 
 in the PafTeover, teacheth us how to expound this : 
 Excd. 12. II. Te frail eat it in haft e^ It is the Lords 
 
 PafftQZ'tr — 
 
Paffcover verf. 27. It is the facrifice of the Lords 
 
 Pajfeover. 
 
 V. Yea the ordinary way and fhrafe of Chrifts 
 teaching may yet farther put us out of doubt. For he 
 ufually taught by Parables, and exprefTeth his fenfe by 
 fuch afTertions : As Matth. 13. 3. Behold afowerwent 
 out to fow, &c. Luk. 15. 11, 12. A certain man had 
 two fans, and the younger fiid, &c. Luk. 12. 1 6. The 
 ground of a certain Rich man, &c. Luk. 16. 19. 
 There was a certain Rich man, &c. Mat. 21. 28. A 
 certain man had two fons 7 &c. Verf. 33. There was a 
 certain houflwlder which planted a Vineyard, &c. The 
 Gofpel aboundeth with fuch inftances, which teach us 
 how to interpret thefe words of Chrift. 
 
 V I. But mod certainly all thofe forementioned texts 
 teach it us, which expreily call it Bread after the Con- 
 fecration. If we will not believe the Holy Ghoft him- 
 fjlf, who fo frequently calleth it bread, it is in vain to 
 alledge any text of Scripture in the Controverfie. 
 
 Now to feign a courfe of ordinary Miracles^ Great- 
 er and more than Chrifts, and this to every Prieft, 
 how ignorant and impious foever ^ to pretend that 
 every Pope and Bifhop can for money fell the Holy 
 Ghoft or the Gift of Miracles, in Ordination -, and all 
 this when no eye feeth the Miracles, when it is con- 
 feffed .that Angels cannot naturally fee it, yea when 
 all mens fenfes perceive the contrary ; and all this 
 becaufe, that Chrift faid This is my Body, while abun- 
 dance fuch fayings in Scripture, yea the words about 
 the Cup it felf, are confeffed to be tropical, and when 
 the Scripture exprefly telleth us that there is 'Bread. 
 Judge whether it be poftible for Satan to have put a 
 greater fcorn upon the Chriftian faith, or a greater 
 fcandal before the enemies of it, or a greater hindcrance 
 
 to 
 
/ ( I2 7 ) 
 
 /to the Worlds Convention, than to tell them, you mud 
 renounce not only your Humanity but all common fenfe, 
 if you will be Cnriftians, and be faved, or fuffered to 
 enjoy your eftates and lives. 
 
 VII. Laftly, It is ordinary with their fubtileft 
 Schoolmen to confefs that this their do&rine of Tran- 
 fubftantiation cannot be proved from Scripture, and 
 that they believe it only becaufe their Church faith it y 
 which mull be believed, and becaufe that by the fame 
 ffirit which wrote the Scripture, the Church u taught 
 thus to expound it. So that all their faith of this is by 
 them refolved into a phanatick pretence of Infpra- 
 tion -, As I have elfewhere (hewed cut of "Durandus^ 
 Talndamts> Scotus y Oc^am, Quodl.6. li,$. q. $i.Rada 
 vol. 4. Cont.-j.a. 1. fag* 164, 165. 
 
 And no General Council ever determined it till that 
 at Row, under Inncc. 3 . Where faith Matth. 'Taru^ 
 many decrees were propofed or brought in by the 
 Pope which fome liked and fome difliked. And this was 
 12 1 5 years afcer Chrifts birth. And Stephantu <s£- 
 duenfis is the firft in whom the name of Tranfubftantia- 
 tion is found, about the year 1 100. 
 
 CHAP, 
 
(123) 
 
 CHAP. VIII. 
 
 Arg. 6. From the Nature of a Sacrament* 
 
 Arg.6. HP Hat Doftrine which by confequence de- 
 Jl nyeth the Lords Supper to be a true Sacra- 
 ment, isfalfe. 
 
 The Papifts do&rine of Tranfubftantiation by con- 
 fequence denyeth the Lords vSupper to be a true Sa- 
 crament : Therefore the Papifts do&rine of Tranfut> 
 flantiation is falfe. 
 
 The Major I know no man that will deny that we 
 have now to deal with. 
 
 The Minor needeth no other proof, than the common 
 definition of a Sacrament, and Chrifts own defcription 
 of this Sacrament in the Scripture. 
 
 I. Aquino* concludeth 3. q. 60. a. t. that a Sacra- 
 mem is a fign • and a t 2. that it is a fign of a thing facred 
 as it fan&ifleth men •. and d.3. that it is a Rememorative 
 fign of Chrifts paifion, a demonftrative fign of Gods 
 Grace, and a prognofticating fign of future Glory: 
 And a. 4. that it muft be Res fenfibilis a fenfible things 
 it being natural to man to come to the knowledge of 
 things intelligible by things fenfible, and the Sacrament 
 fignifieth to man fpiritual and intelligible Goods : and 
 a. 5. that they muft be thing's of Divine determina- 
 tion, &c* 
 
 But, 1. If the Bread and Wine be gone, there isno- 
 
 thing left to be ay?^-;/, a Real fenfible fign, to lead us 
 
 -to the knowledge of fpiritual and intelligible things. 
 
 If they fay that the fpecies of Bread and Wine is the 
 
 fenfible fign , what mean they by that cheating word 
 
 r '/peeks n 
 
(I2 9 ) 
 
 \_fpecies?~\ Not the Specifying form or matter, but 
 only the outriard appearance. And is it a true or a 
 falfe appearance ? If True, then there is Bread arid 
 Wine.* ii falfe , it is a falfe fign : And what is that 
 falfe appearance which God maketh a Sacrament of > 
 It is plainly nothing but 'the Accidents of Bread and 
 Wine without the fubftance. But, i. When they take 
 the Gup from the Laity, and deny them half the Sacra- 
 ment, fure there are then no Accidents of Wine. Is 
 there either Quantity, Colour, Smell, Tafle, &c. of 
 Wine? They will not fay ic. So that here is no fenfible 
 fign as to one half. 
 
 2i And herein they deal far more inhumanely with 
 us than the Infidels themfelves : For when they plead 
 againft Chrift and Scripture, they grant that the com* 
 mon principles and Not it U , which all mankind ac- 
 knowledge , are the certain 
 unqueftionabie light of No- ** W ™T ■ Rea f cn f f or th l 
 
 1 J « i ii •// j Christian Religion, and the Lord 
 
 tare. But the Papifts deny Herbert de nutate. 
 not only the Notitias com- 
 
 munes, but common fenfe. It is nothing with them to 
 damn all the world, that will not believe contradicti- 
 ons. They fay that the Quantity of Nothing endued 
 with the (sualities>t\\e Attions, tht Taffion, the Relati- 
 ons , the quando^ubi, fit us o£ nothing, is the Sacramen- 
 tal fign. Inhumane contradiction I i . Gaffendm and 
 others fay truly, that an Accident is not properly Res, 
 but Modus Rei y (vel i?/^/;taJ,as he calleth it.) z.Quan- 
 tity doth not Really differ a re quanta : and to fay, 
 Q The Lengthy Breadth, Profundity of Nothing ] is a 
 notorious contradiction; And fo it is of the other 
 Accidents. There is no Real fenfible fign> and therefore 
 no Sacrament, where there is nothing, but the quantity, 
 colour, tafie, fine 11, &c. of Nothing. 
 
 3, And they cannot, thev dare not fay, that Chrifts 
 K Real 
 
Real Flefh and Blood, is the Sacramental fign: For, 
 i. It is not fenfible ; 2. It fhould be then the fign 
 of it felf: The fign and the thing fignified cannot be 
 the fame. 
 
 II. The very fubflantiality or corporeity of the 
 Bread 2nd Wine as fuck, is part of the fign: As Chrift 
 faith, Behold and handle me, a ffirit hath not flefii and 
 bloody as ye fee me have : So he taketh Cor fore al bread 
 and wine in their fight, and breadth it, and poureth it 
 cut, and giveth it them to fee, to feel, to tafte, to eat, 
 that they may know it is true bread a?id wine , the 
 figns of his True Body and Blood. So that to deny 
 the Corporeity is to deny Chrifis Corporeity in its figns -, 
 and tendethtothe old Herefie of them that held that 
 Chrift had but a phantafiical body, or was not indeed 
 Crucified, but feemcd fo to be : They teach Hereticks 
 to argue, The fign was no Real fubfiance : Therefore 
 neither the thing fignified. 
 
 III. The nutritive ufe of the bread and wine was 
 another part of the fign, as all confefs : As bread and 
 wine are the Nutriment of the body and life of man, 
 fo is Chrift crucified meritorioufly, and Chrifl glorified 
 efficiently, the life of the foul. And he that denyeth 
 the Nutritive fign, denyeth the Sacrament : But it is 
 not the falfe appearance, or phantafm, or accidents of 
 bread and wine, that are the natural nourijhers of mm : 
 Therefore he that denyeth the nourifliing fubfiance , 
 denyeth the Real fenfible Sacramental fign. 
 
 Saith Bellarmin de Euchar. /. 3. c. 23. \_ln the Eu- 
 charifi we receive not corporal food that the flefii may 
 be thence nouriflied and made fat : but only to fignifie 
 inward refeBion.^\ So that he acknowledged this to 
 be part of the Sacramental fign. So Gregor. Valent. 
 faith that \_The chief and cjfential fignifie ation of this 
 Sacrament is that which by external nourishment _is 
 
 fignified 
 
fignifed, the internal fpiritual refetlion of the foul by the 
 body cfChrift. ] So that denying the nouriflnng fign is 
 deftroying the eifence of the Sacrament. 
 
 I V. The breaking of the Bread and pouring out the 
 Wine is confeiTedly another part of the Sacramental fen- 
 fible fign. Bur, i. When there is no Wine, there is no 
 pouring it out : 2. And if there be no Bread neither, 
 there is no breaking it : Can that be broken which is 
 not ? They that deny ( as the Papifts do ) that the 
 Bread is broken ( faying that only the Quantity of 
 Nothing is broken ) deny the fenfible Sacramental fign. 
 
 And here I may note, that we do not well to contend 
 with them for denying the Cup only to the Laky, and 
 granting them only the Bread, when indeed they grant 
 neither, but deny them both : There is ( fay they^ 
 no more Bread than Wine but only a falfe appearance 
 of it. 
 
 V. Laftly, TheApoftle i Cor. 10. 16, 17. fheweth 
 that one Sacramental ufe of the Bread was to fignifie the 
 Vnity ofChriftians, who are one Bread, and one Bo- 
 dy, as one Loaf is made of many Corns. But that 
 cannot be One, which is Nothing: E?is^ Vmm & 
 Verum convert untur. To fay with Greg. VatenP. and 
 Bellarmine , that becaufe it was Once bread, and one 
 bread, therefore the accidents of it remaining now fig- 
 nifie that we are one bread • is but to fay, that There 
 was once a fit fign, but then there wanted the form ; 
 Now after Confecration, there is no Sacramental fign, 
 but yet there is a Sacramental form : And in what Mat- 
 ter is that form ? Doubtlefs it can be no where but in 
 the Brain or Mind of man : That is, man can Remember 
 that once he faw Bread : This is the fpecies of bread in 
 his Intellect : This fpecies is the pan : And fo we have 
 found out another fenfe of the jpecies of bread , than 
 many think on • viz. It is that which is called Thefpe- 
 
 K 2 ties 
 
ties intentionalis^ or the Idea or conception of bread 
 in a mans fantajie and mind : And fo indeed the Sacra- 
 ment is with them an invifible thing : for it is only 
 in mens minds : There is no Sacrament on the Altar , 
 but in the thoughts : And fo who hath a Sacrament, and 
 who not, we know not -. And a man may by thinking 
 make a Sacrament when he will. 
 
 >■■'■ . ' M l. — I , ■ ■ II 
 
 CHAP. IX. 
 
 Of the Novelty of TranfMantiation. 
 
 R $ T Once thought to have next proved out of the 
 A Current of Antiquity , the Novelty of this inhu- 
 mane doctrine of the Papifts , and that the Antients 
 commonly confefTed , that there was true Bread and 
 Wine remaining in the Sacrament afcer Confecration : 
 But, i . I mould but temp and weary ordinary Readers, 
 who neither need any fuch arguments ( having Senfe 
 and Scripture to give them fatisfa&ion ) nor are able to 
 try them : For it is an indirect kind of dealing, to ex- 
 pect that the unlearned, or thofe that are ftrangers to 
 the Writings of the Antients, mould believe this or that 
 to be their mind and fayings , meerly becaufe I tell 
 themfo. And if they read the plained words, they 
 know not whether I rightly recite them, but by be- 
 lieving me. And it is as unreafonable on the other 
 fide, that the Papiits mould expect , either by their 
 Citations or their general Affirmations, that the Rea- 
 ders mould believe them, that the Antients were for 
 Tranfubftantiation. Till men can both read the Au- 
 thors themfelves, and try the Copies, they can have no 
 fure hiftorical notice what the Fathers held , except by 
 
 the 
 
(in) 
 
 the common confent of credible Reporters or Hiftori- 
 ans : Not while one fide faith, they fay this, and the 
 other fide faith they fay thecontrary,and yet their Books 
 are to be feen by all. We may bid them believe «/,and 
 the Papifts may bid them believe them, and a Prieft 
 may cheat them by faying, that his word is the Chur- 
 ches : But though this will produce a humane belief in 
 the Hearers or Readers, as by advantages it is moll 
 taking with them, yet that fallible belief is all the 
 Certainty that it can afford them. Therefore I think 
 it moil ingenuous and reafonable to give men fuch argu-i 
 ments as they are capable of underftanding and im- 
 proving to certain fatisfa&ion. 
 
 2 . Becaufe they that can ftudy fuch Authors as have 
 gathered the fentences of the Amients in this Contro- 
 verfie, may find it fo fully done by Edmund. Albertinus 
 ?n his fecond Book, that they can need no more. 
 
 P. You know that Albertinus is anfwered. 
 
 R. And I know that he is again Defended : And who 
 doubreth but you. can anfwer me copioudy, if I did 
 maintain that the Sun giveth light : What is it that a 
 man cannot talk for ? efpecially they that can hope to 
 perfwade all the Chriftian world , that they rauft be 
 damned, unlefs they will believe that all mens fenfes are 
 deceived, and that God is the great Deceiver of the 
 world. 
 
 P. But how can you think to pleafe God and be 
 faved, if you be not of the fame faith as the Church hath 
 alwayes been of ? All the antient Fathers and Catholick 
 Church were for Tranfubftantiation ; and are you wifer 
 and in a fafer way than they ? 
 
 R. You have loft your credit with me fo far, as that 
 your word is no oracle to me ; If I mud not believe 
 my own nor other mens fenfes^ I am not bound to be- 
 lieve you : at lead when I know you fpeak falflv. 
 
 K 3 Buc 
 
But I pray tell me, How know you that the Church 
 and Fathers did io believe ? 
 
 P. Becaufe the prefent Church faith fo^ which can- 
 not err. 
 
 R* Do not your own Writers fay, that a General 
 Council and Pope may err in matter of fad: ? and 
 that they did fo in Condemning Pope Honor int and in 
 other Cafes ? 
 
 P. Yes : but this is a matter of faith. 
 R. Is knot a matter of fad, what this or that man 
 faid, and what dodrine the Church at fuch a time did 
 teach and hold ? 
 
 But how know you that the prefent Church doth fay 
 fo, that this was the faith of the antient Church ? 
 P. By their teftimony in a General Council. 
 R. Did you hear the Council fay fo ? 
 P. No: but the Church tellethme that the Council 
 faid fo. 
 
 R. Who is it that you now call the Church which 
 tells you fo ? 
 
 P. My Superiours , who have it from the Pope, and 
 their Fathers. 
 
 R. Are your Superiours that told you fo,the Church > 
 Or is the Pope the Church ? If fo, What need you fay 
 a Council is the Church ? And how know you that 
 the Pope and your Superiours err not in a matter 
 of fad ? 
 
 P. I know it by the Decrees of the Council yet 
 extant. 
 
 R. i. But if fenfe be deceitful , how know you 
 that you ever read fuch Decrees ? 2. How know you 
 that they are not forgeries, or fince corrupted ? 
 
 P. The Church is a faie keeper of its own Re- 
 cords. 
 
 A Still 
 
/' 
 
 R. Still what mean you by the Church ? The Vul- 
 gar -either keep nor under ftand your Councils. The 
 Council of Trent is long ceafed : No other General 
 Counc.i hath been fince, to tell you what are the true 
 Decrees of that Council. The Pope is not the Church : 
 And he may err in amauer of tad : What then is the 
 Church that tells you certainly what the Council of 
 Trent decreed ? Tell me if you can. 
 
 P. We have fuch common hiftorical Evidence and 
 Tradition, as you have for your Ads of Parliament 
 when the Parliament is ended. The prefent Gover- 
 nours preferve them. 
 
 R. Very good: It is the Office of the Governours 
 to take that Care, but therein they are not indefedible 
 and infallible . but they and the pub >lifhed Laws, and the 
 notice of the whole Land, and the Judicial proceedings 
 by them in the Courts of judicature make uo a Certain 
 flifiorical Evidence. And fo it mav be in your Cafe : 
 And when you have talkt your utmoft, you can fhew 
 no more. And have not we the fame Writings of Fa- 
 thers and Councils as you have ? You dare not deny it. 
 Why then may not we know what is in them as well 
 as you ? And I pray you tell me, Whether your Anti- 
 quaries, fuch as Albafpin&us, Sixtus Senenfis,Vetavius, 
 Sirmondus,&c, do prove what Cyprian, Optatns, An- 
 gufiine, &c. held, by the judgement of the Pope or 
 Councils, or by citing the words of the Authors them- 
 felves ? And do C ra ^-> Binnim^ Surius, fitranza, &c. 
 prove what one Council faid by the authority of ano- 
 ther, or by the Records themfelves, yet vifible to all ? 
 
 P. Thofe Records themfelves, even the vifible 
 Writings of the Fathers and Councils are for Tranfub- 
 ftantiation. 
 
 R, Till you have perfwaded tfie out of my fenfes, I 
 will not believe you, I pray you tell me if you can of 
 
 K 4 any 
 
V k 5" ) 
 
 any Author or Council that ever ufed the name 
 £ Tranfubftantiarion ] before Stephanus <^£duenfo after 
 the year i ioo, de Sacram. <*Aitar. c. 1 3. 
 
 P. Though the name be new, the Doctrine is not. 
 
 R. Tell'me next, what General Council did ever de- 
 termine it, before the Council of Lateranc under ln- 
 noc. 3. an, 12 15. 
 
 P. Not exprefly : for General Councils need not 
 mention it, till the Albigenfes Hereticks gave them oc- 
 cafion by denying it, 
 
 R. Was it an Article of faith before ? If it were, 
 either the Councils are not the meafure of your faith, 
 or it is very mutable. 
 
 P. Among all your qucftionings anfwer me this que- 
 ftion if you can.Tf that General Council decreed Tranfub- 
 ftantiarion, what could move them fo to do, if it were not 
 the faith of the Church before ? Were they not all of 
 the fame mind the day before they did it ? and fo the 
 day before that, and the day before that, &c. Or do 
 you think that they were againft Tranfubftantiation the 
 night before, and awaked all of another mind the next 
 morning ? What could make all the Paftors of the 
 Church think that this was the true faith, if they did 
 not think it was the antient faith ? And whac could 
 make them think it the antient faith, if it were not fo? 
 Did not they know what their Fathers held ? And did 
 not their Father? know what their Fathers held I The 
 fame I fay of the Council ofTrept alfo, 
 
 R. Thus men that mull not believe the common fenfe of 
 mankind, can believe the dreaming conjectures of their 
 brains,and {it in a corner, and thence tell the world what 
 can and what cannot be done by publick afTemblies, at 
 many hundred years and miles di fiance. Who would not 
 laugh at a Fryer, that in his Ceil would tell by moral 
 conjectures, all the tnoughts and motions of an Army 
 *'''•" cr 
 
U37; 
 
 / or Navy, that never faw them, and contrary to the ex- 
 perience of tbofe that were on the ground and interefled 
 in their Councils and a&ions, Obferve how many falfe 
 fuppofitions go to make up your cheats. 
 
 1 . You fuppofe this a true General Council , which 
 is a pack of factious Prelates fubjed to the Pope, and 
 affembled at Rome in his own Palace,under the awe of his 
 prefenceand power. And as if thefmall number after at 
 Trent had fpake the minds of all the Churches, 
 
 2. You fuppofe all the members of a Council to be 
 of. one mind, : when as they determine by the Major 
 Vote. And oft times the difference is not above type 
 or three, and its poflible one Voice may turn the fcales : 
 And perhaps one, or two , or ten may be abfent one 
 day, and prefent another, and fo the Cry of £ the 
 Judgement of all the Bijhops in the world J may figniiie 
 no more, but that two or three of the other fide ftaid a 
 little too long at dinner that day, while the other par- 
 ty carryed it by their abfence. And I pray you where 
 hath God promifed, that the faith of an hundred and 
 one (hall not fail, when the faith of ninety nine of the 
 fame company may fail ffuppofing the Council to be 
 two hundred )\ Or why are the one hundred and one the 
 Bifhops of all the world, and not the ninety nine ? 
 
 3 . Do you think we never read the Hiftory of the 
 Council of Trent ? and before them, of the Councils of 
 Ariminum^ Ephef 2, yea, Calcedon , &c. ? And yet 
 muft we fuppofe , that men come thither all of one 
 mind ? when they have fuch fliameful Contentions ? 
 Such cunning contrivances to get the majority of Votes ? 
 Such awe and terror from the power of the Chief? and 
 fuch carnal dependances and refpe&s to their feve- 
 rai wprldly interefts? Yea, fometimes fighting it cut 
 
 | unto blood ( as Diofcoms and Flqyianm cafe doth 
 fhamefully evince? ) 
 
 4. And 
 
^38) 
 
 4- And muft we fuppofc mens minds to be changed 
 in their Jleep , when the awe or the oratory of other 
 men change them ? Do we not know the Courfe of the 
 Parliaments of England of later times ? How much a 
 few men of more than ordinary parts and intereft, 
 can do with the reft ? And how oft the major Vote 
 hath gone againft the fenfe of the far greater number 
 of the Houfe ? 
 
 5. And do we not know, that ordinarily he that is 
 fent to the Council from a Province, is chofen as it pleaf- 
 eih the Pope, the King, or the Archbifhop, or fomc in 
 greateft power ; and rarely according to the free-will 
 and fenfe of the greater part of the Clergy. If five 
 hundred to one of the Clergy of a Kingdom be of one 
 mind, and the Prince , or chief men, or powerfulleft 
 Prelatcs be of another, they will fend a Bifhop thither 
 of their own mind. 
 
 6. Do you think we know not that all the Papifts are 
 not paftthe third or fourth part of the Chriftian world? 
 -Why then fhould their fenfe be called the fenfe of all 
 the Chriftian world ? 
 
 7. Do you think we know not how little reafon you 
 have to fay, that the Council at Later ane fpake the fenfe 
 of all the Church ? When the Decrees were but pro- 
 posed by Pope Innocent ', and recited there without any 
 due Syraodical deliberation, and fome liked them, and 
 fome diiliked them ? as you may find in Math. Vans 
 mK.John^NaHclcrusGener. 41. ad an, 1215, Gode- 
 fridm ad an. 12 15. Platina in Vita Innoc. 3. And 
 this one of your late falfe Scriblers in a Book for Tole- 
 ration alfo faith ♦, Though the Difputers againft 
 ■IJr. Gunning and Dr. Tier [on copioufly and confidently 
 juftifie that Council : and indeed with you it paffethfor 
 an Approved one. 
 
 8, And 
 
( l 39) 
 
 8. And were not your arguing as ftrong for the 
 Council of Epbef. 2. and that at aArim. and Sirmium, 
 and divers at Conftanttnople difallowed , and thofe at 
 C»?iflance and JBajil, ( where were many times the num- 
 ber of the Council at Trent ) ? Did thefe Councils all 
 go to bed of one mind, and rife of another? Or did 
 they not know what their Fathers faith was ? Why then 
 do you reprobate them, and deny that which they de- 
 creed as" of faith ? Is it not a fhame, to talk of \_the 
 Bijbops of all the world ~\ and [_ Tradition from their 
 fathers J when your meaning is but that All thefe may 
 err, and do oft err^ unlefs one man> the Pope approve 
 them } But where fenfe is renounced, we mufl not ex- 
 peel modefty. 
 
 P. But the antient Councils and Fathers are againft: 
 you, as is to be feen. 
 
 JR. It is utterly falfe : I will not abufe the Reader fo 
 as to carry him into a Wood , and lofe him among a 
 multitude cf old Books, when he hath more fatisfa&ory 
 evidence enough at hand. 
 
 But, I. As to all your Citations from true antiquity 
 ( for your forged Authors and corrupted Teftimonies 
 we regard not ) they are anfwered by this one true 
 obfervation, that when old Writers fometimes fay, that 
 after confecration it is £ No more bread and wine, but 
 the body and blood of Chrift ], their whole Context 
 plainly (heweth,that they mean that it is no more MEER 
 or Common Bread and Wine ^ and ufually they fo fpeak. 
 Becaufe forma denominate and it is the ultimate form 
 that denominateth , all antecedent forms being but the 
 difpoftio materia. As if the queftion be , Whether a 
 Shilling be Silver or Money f Before the Coining, k 
 was but Silver ; but after, it is no more Common Silver ? 
 but Money : Silver is but the matter , and not the de- 
 nominating form, Is your Garment to be called Cloth, 
 
 or 
 
or a fi 9a k. ? Before the making it was but Cloth, but 
 now it is not meer Cloth, but a Cloaks The fame I 
 may fay of the Kings Crown and Scepter, or of any 
 Relative , Reprcfentative or Perforating form that is 
 added to any matter or man. This is the plain mean- 
 ing of the Antients. 
 
 1 1. And as to what they fay againft you, I will now 
 only give you a few brief inftances. 
 
 i.Jufiin Martyr, in Dial, cumTryph, faith, [_The 
 offering of Flower delivered to be offered for them 
 that were cleanfed of the Leprofie , was a Type of the 
 PRE AD of the Eucharift which our Lord fefus 
 ftrift commanded us to makj in remembrance of his 
 paffton, dec. ] 
 
 And more plainly Apolog. 2. ( indeed the firft ) 
 £ When the Prtfident hath given thanks , and all the 
 people acclaimed^ thofe that with us are caHcd Deacons, 
 diftribute to every one prefent BREAD and WINE and 
 Water y and bring them to thofe that are abfent. ] 
 
 2, Iren&HS faith lib, 4. c. 34, [For as the Bread 
 which is of the fiarth receiving the divine invocation, 
 is not now Common Bread, but the Eucharift, confefiing 
 of two things, theTerrene and the Celeftial, &c. J 
 
 See more out of him in Albert inus, at large. 
 
 l.Tcrtullian cont, Marcion I. 3. c, 19. [Calling 
 Bread his Body, that hence you may under ft and that he 
 gave to Bread the Figure of his body, ~\ 
 
 And before /. 1 . [_ He reprobated not — £rcad, 
 
 by which he Rcprefentech his very Body. ~\ 
 
 And lib. 4. cap. 40. \_ The Bread which he took^ and 
 difiributcd to his Difciples he made his body , faying. 
 
 This is my Body j that is, The figure of my body, 
 
 *s4nd what he would have Bread then fig ni fie , he fuffi- 
 ciently declared, calling Bread his Body. 2 
 
 And 
 
(*40 
 
 And it Is a notable paflage of Tertullians againft the 
 Academicks that queftioned fenfe , lib, de amm. c. 17. 
 [ What doft thou , O procacious Academic!^ ? Thou 
 ruerthroweft the whole ftate of life : Thou difturbeft 
 the whole order of nature ; Thou bltndeft the providence 
 tf God himfelf ; as if he had made mens lying and 
 deceitful fenfes to be the Lords, in under ft anding, ho- 
 nouring-, difpenftng and enjoying all his works : Is not 
 the whole Condition ( of minj fubadminiftred by thefe,~\ 
 And after [ We may not call thofe fenfes into queftion, 
 left Chrift himfelf muft deliberate of their certainty 
 ( or muft diftruft them ), Left it may be faid y that he 
 falfty faw Satan caft down from Heaven , or falfty 
 heard the voyce of his Father teftifying of him -, or was 
 
 deceived when he touched Ptters Wives Mother 
 
 or perceived not a true tafte of the Wine which he Con- 
 fccrated in the memorial of his blood, J Many fuch 
 places are in Tertullian. 
 
 4. Origen is large and plain to the fame purpofe in 
 Matth.25. calling it [Bread and a Typical and Symbo- 
 lical Body, which profiteth none but the worthy receiv- 
 ers, and that according to the proportion of their faith y 
 and which no wicked man doth eat, &c. ] Many more 
 fuch places Albertinus vindicateth. • 
 
 5. Cyprians Epiftk to Magnm is too large this way 
 to be recited* As [" Even the Sacrifices of the Lord 
 declare the Qiriftian Vnanimity, connexed by firm and 
 infeparable love : For when the Lord calleth Bread his 
 body ( or his body bread ) made up of many united 
 j grain*, &c. And when he calleth the Wine his Bloody 
 I &c. ~\ So Epift. ad CiciU 
 
 6. Eufebi us C<c far. demon ftr. Evang, I. i.e. 10. £ Ce- 
 [ lebrating daily the memorial of the body and blood of 
 
 Chrift L _J [Seeing then we receive the memorial of 
 
 this Sacrifice to be perfected on the Table •, by the [yrn- 
 
 bols 
 
boh of his body and mo ft precious blood ] And 
 
 /. 8* \_He delivered to us to ufe, Bread as the fymbol 
 of his own body. ] 
 
 7. Athanafius's words arc recited by Albert inns L 2. 
 p. 400, 401,^. 
 
 8. Bafil. de Spir.Santt. faith, \_Which of the Saints 
 hath left us in Writing the words of invocation , 
 Vphen the Bread of the Eucharift, and the Cup of blef- 
 fing are fiuwed ? J 
 
 9. Ephrem (in Biblioth. Vhotii p. 425. Edit. Auguft.) 
 faith, [_The body of Chrift , W&c£ believers receive , 
 /0/rt^ #0*" to fenfible fubftance , <#W zj /wr feparated 
 from the intelligible grace. 3 
 
 And ^ eos qui filii Dei, &c £ T^J^ ^of /V? diligent- ' 
 ly hove taking Bread in his hands , /?<? blejfed it , tftfd/ 
 £r#£e z>> for a figure of his immaculate body, and he 
 bleffed the Cup and gave it to his Difciplcs as a figure 
 of his pretious blood* ] 
 
 10. Cyrillus ( vel. Johan. ) HierofoL Catech. My- 
 flag, calls the bread indeed Chrifts body, but fully ex- 
 pounds himfelf de (fhryfmate, Cat. ?>.pag. 255. [_ For as 
 the Bread of the Eucharift, after the invocation of the 
 Holy Ghoft, is no more (fommon Bread, but is the Body 
 of Chrift : So alfo this Holy Oyntment is no more mcer 
 Oyntment, nor (if any one had rather fo fpeah^) com- 
 mon, now it is cvnfecrated . but it is a Gift (or Grace) 
 which caufcth the pre fence of Chrift and the Holy 
 Ghoft •, that is, of his Divinity. J As the Oyntment is 
 Grace, or the Holy G^oft, jufx fo the Bread is the body 
 of Chrift, as he faith after Cat. 4. It is not only what we 
 fee ( Bread and Wine ) but more. 
 
 11. HieromcGKT. jovinicuuU 2- The Lord as a type 
 (or figure ) of his blood] offered not water but wine. 
 
 12. Ambrofe de Sacram. L 4. c. 4. [_ This tforefore 
 we ajfert 7 How that which vs Bread, cm yet be the body 
 
 of 
 
( 143 > 
 
 i of Chrift. ] And [ If Chrift sfpeech hadfo much 
 
 \ force , that it made that begin to be which was not, 
 
 how much more is it operative , that the things that 
 
 were, both Be , and be changed into fomething elfe. ] 
 
 And [ As thou haft drunks the fimilitude of death , fa 
 
 \ thou drinks ft the fimilitude of pretious blood. J 
 
 1 3. Theodoni t n Dialog. Immutab. dealeth with an 
 Eutychian Heretick, who defended his Error by plead- 
 ing that the bread in the Euchartft was changed into the 
 body of Chrift : To whom faith Theodoret, [The Lord 
 who hath called that meat and bread which is naturally 
 his Body, and who again called hiwfelf a Vine, did 
 honour the vftble figns with the appellation of his body 
 and blood; not having changed their Nature, bat ad- 
 ded Grace to Nature. J 
 
 And in Dialog 2. In confuf. he faith, £ The divine 
 Myfteries are figns of the true body, j And again, 
 anfvvering the Eutychians pretence ot a change he faith, 
 Q By the net which thou haft made , art thou taken, 
 fij* For even after the Consecration, the Alyftical figns 
 change not their nature : For they remain in all their 
 fir ft SVBSTANCS, figure and form, and are Vifible , 
 and to be Handled as before. But they are under flood 
 to be the things which they were made, and are believ- 
 ed and venerated as made that which they are believed 
 I to be. ~\ Would you have plainer words? 
 
 14. Gelafius com. Nefi. & Eutych. faith, £ Verily 
 the Sacraments of the body and blood of Chrift which 
 
 \ we take, is a Divine thing, for which and by which we 
 are made partakers of the divine nature, (§* And yet 
 it ceafeth not to be the Sub fiance and Nature of Bread 
 and Wine, And certainly the Image and fimilitude of 
 the body and blood of Chrift are celebrated in the atliort 
 of the Myfteries. ~\ What can be plainer ? 
 
 K.Cwil. 
 
15. Cyril. Alcxandr. in John 4. cap. 14. faith, \_He 
 gave to his believing difciples fragments of Br cad, faying i 
 Take, Eat, This is my body. J 
 
 16. Facundus lib. 9. cap. 5. pag. 404. fas cited by 
 P. Molin. de Novitate Papifmi ) V We call that the 
 body and blood of Qorift which is the Sacrament of his 
 body, in the confecrated Bread and £up* O Not that 
 the Bread is properly his body, and the Cup his blood 9 
 but becaufe they contain the Myfterie of his body and 
 blood* ] 
 
 But I am fo weary of thefe needlefs Tranfcriptions, 
 that I will trouble my felf and the Reader with no 
 more. Albertinm will give him enow more who de- 
 iireth them : And no doubt but with a wet finger they 
 can blot out all thefe, and teach us to deny thefenfe 
 of words, as well as our fcnfes. 
 
 D. Butyoufaid alfo, that the Prefent Church and its 
 Tradition is again ft Tranfubjtantiation^ as well as the 
 Antient : How prove you that ? 
 
 R. Juft as I prove that the Proteftants are againft it* 
 By the prefent fourch, I mean the far greater part of 
 all the Chriftians in the world. The Greeks with the 
 Mufcovites, the Armenians, the Syrians, the Copties, 
 the Abaflines, and the Proteftants , and all the reft 
 who make up about twice or thrice as many as the 
 Papifts. 
 
 That they hold that there is true Bread and Wine 
 after Consecration, all impartial Hiftonans teftifie, both 
 Papifts and Proteftants , and their own feveral Coun- 
 treymen ^ and alfo Travellers who have been among 
 them. And their Liturgies, even thofe that are in the 
 Bibliotheca Patrum put out by themfelves , do teftifie 
 tor thofe Counrreys where they are ufed ( Though as 
 Bilhop V flier hath detected ) by one words addition, 
 ihev have (hameleftv endeavoured to corrupt the Ethi- ■ 
 
c x 45 ; 
 
 opick Liturgy about the Real f re fence. ) But I need 
 no more proof of that which no fairhiul HiHory doth 
 deny* 
 
 And then I need not prove, that Tranfubftantiation 
 is againftthe mod General or Common Tradition; 
 For all thefe Chriftians, :he Greeks, Armenians, Abaf- 
 fines, &c. profefs to follow the Religion which they 
 have received from their Anceftors , a*, well as the 
 Papjfts do : And if the Papifo be to be believed in 
 faying that this is the Religion which they received 
 from their forefathers, Why flflp rot the other to be 
 believed in the fame cafe ? And ifthePopifh Tradi- 
 tion feem regardable to them, Way (hould not the 
 Tradition of twice or thrice as many Chriftians be 
 more regardable ? And if in Councils, the Major Vote 
 muft carry it • Why not in the Judgeroeitf and Tra- 
 dition of the Real body of Chrifts Church ? As for 
 their trick of excepting againft them as Schifraaticks 
 and Hereticks , to invalidate their Votes and Judge- 
 ment, we defpife it, as knowing that fo any Ufurper 
 that would make himfelf the fole Judge, may fay by all 
 the reft of the world : But as they judge of others, they 
 are juftly judged by others themfeives* 
 
 CHAP, 
 
(14*) 
 
 CHAP. X. 
 
 The fecond fart of the fintroverfie , Whether it be 
 Chrifis very Flcjh and Blood into which the Bread and 
 Wine are Tranfubflanttated. 
 
 R. /^\Ur firft Queftion was, Whether there be any 
 \J Bread and Wine left after Confecration ; Our 
 fecond is, Whether Chrifis Real Flefli and Blocdce there , 
 as that into which the Bread andWme are changed? 
 
 And herein i. I do freely grant, that th? change of 
 Chrifts Body by Glorification is fo gieai , as that it 
 may be called, though not a Spirit, yet a fphitaal body, 
 as Paul, i Cor. 15. fauh Ours when Glorified fhall be ^ 
 that is , A body very like in puri :y , fimplicity, and 
 activity to a Spirit : And the general d.inrence be- 
 tween a fpirit and body was not held by many of the 
 Greek Fathers as it is by us : And if the fecond Coun- 
 cil of Nice was Infallible, no Angel or oiher Crea- 
 ture is Incorporeal : Or as Damafus faith, [_ They are 
 Corporeal in refpeft to God, but Incorporeal in re- 
 fpect to grofs bodies. ] The perfed knowledge of ihe 
 difference between Corf us arid Sfiritus . except by the 
 formal Virtue?, is unknown to mortal men. 
 
 2. 1 grant therefore, that our fenfes are no Compe- 
 tent Judges, Whether Chrifis true body be in the Sacra- 
 ment? no more than Whether an Angel be in this room ? 
 There are bodies which are Invifible. 
 
 3. I grant thac it is unkno vn to us, how far Chrifts 
 Glorified body may extend? Whether the fame may be 
 
f'47) 
 to confute them that fay, Light is a 'Body j nor them 
 that fay, It is a [fir it : nor them that fay, It is quid 
 medium as a nexus of both : I mean aether or Ignis , vi- 
 fible in its Light. And it is an incomprehenfible won- 
 der, if Lumen be a real radiant or Emanant part of the 
 Sun, that it fhould indivifibly fill all the fpace thence to 
 this earth, and how much further little do we know. So 
 for the extenfions of Chrifts body* let thofe that un- 
 der ftand it difpute for me* 
 
 4* And I will grant that it is very probable that 
 as in Heaven we fhall have both a Soul and 'Body., 
 fo the Body is not like to have fo near an Intuition 
 and fruition of God as the foul. And whether the 
 Glorified Body of Chrifi will not be there a medium of 
 Gods Communication of Glory to our bodies, yea and 
 his .glorified foul to our fouls, as the Sun is now to our 
 eyes, I do not well underftand : only I know that it is 
 his prayer and will, that we be with him where he is to 
 behold his Glory • and that God and the Lamb will be 
 the Light of the Heavenly Jerufalenu 
 
 5. And I am fully fatisfied that it is not the figns only, 
 but the Real Body and Blood of Chrift, which are given 
 us in the Sacraments fboth Baptifm and the Eucharift) : 
 But how given iu ? Relatively, de jure \ as a man is Gi- 
 ven to a Woman in Marriage ^ or as a houfe and land 
 are delivered to me, to be mine for my ufe •, though I 
 touch them not. Thus 1. A right to Chrift is given 
 us : 2* And the fruits or benefits of his Crucified body 
 and (bed blood* are actually given us, that is> Pardon and 
 the Spirit, merited for us thereby. 
 
 6. And among the Benefits given us, befides the Re- 
 lative, there are fome fuch as we call Real or Thyfical 
 terrri natively, and hy per phy fie al originally ut a Caufa, 
 which are the fpirit of Holmefs, or the Quickening, 
 Illuminating and Santlifying influence of the fpirit of 
 
(i 4 8) 
 
 Chrift upon our fouls. And the Sacrament is appointed 
 as a fpeciai means of communicating this* 
 
 7. I have met wiih fome of late who fay, that Indeed 
 Chnfts Body and Blood in his humbled ftate, were not 
 reaily eaten and drunk by the difciples, at his laft fupper : 
 For the flejh prohteth not to fuch a afe : But that his 
 Glorified Body is fpiritu^l, and is extenfively commu- 
 nicated, and invillbly prtfent under the form of Bread 
 in the Sacrament •, and thit as we have a 2Wy, ^ fen- 
 fitive life , and an Intelleciualfoul, fo Chrift is the lite of 
 all thefe refpe&ively - 5 viz,Mi$ "Body is made the fpiritu- 
 al noun foment of our 'Bodies •, his fenfinve foul ( for 
 which the word Blood is put, becaufeit is in the blood in 
 animals ) is the food or life of our feniitive fouls -, and 
 his Intellectual foul, of ours : And to thefe ufes they 
 afTert the Real pre feme and oral participation of Chrifts 
 Glorified body. 
 
 To all which I fay, 1. Whether or how far an in- 
 vifible fpiritual'Body is prefent ) Xenfe is no judge ^ nor 
 can we know any further than Gods word tetieth us. 
 2. That Chrift in his Glorified foul and Body is our In- 
 terccfiour with God, through whom we have all things, 
 we muft not doubt. 3 .That Chrift in his Humane and Di- 
 vine Na ure now in Heaven, is that Teacher who hath leit 
 us a certain word,and that King who hath left us a perfect 
 Law of Life, whom we mud obey, and a promife which 
 we muft truft, we muft not queftion. 4. That the Ho- 
 ly Ghoft who is our fpiritual Life, is given us £y, from 
 and for Chrift our Mediator, we muft take for certain 
 truth. 
 
 Bu:, though in all thefe refpe&s, Faith apprehendeih 
 and liveth upon Chrift, yet that moreover his Glorified 
 'Body in fubftance , either feedeth or by contact purih'eth 
 our Bodies, and his fenfitive foul, our fenfuive foul?, 
 and his Intellectual foul, our Intellectual fouls, as if in 
 
(*49) 
 
 them/elves, and nor in their effects only they were thus 
 communicated to us, I understand not, either by any 
 juft conception of the thing it felf, or any proof of it 
 from the word of God. But if any can help me to fee 
 it, I fhall not refiife inflruftion. 
 
 Nor can I kc why the foul of Chrift fhould be faid 
 to be given in the Wine only, and not in the 'Bread ; 
 Nor why by this kind of Communication he may not as 
 truly be faid to be given us in other Ordinances as in 
 the Eucharift ; Nor know I what they mean by the 
 Forms of bread and wine, under which they fay that 
 Chrifts Body and blood is given : But I am paft doubt 
 that Bread and Wine are ftill really in fubftance 
 there. 
 
 And whereas the fame men fay that It is Chrifts 
 humbled Hefh and blood as facrificed on the Crofs that 
 is Q>mmemcrated, but his Glorified Body and foul only 
 which are Communicated and Received, I muft fay, 
 i. That Chrift plainly tells us of his Giving m his 
 Sacrificed Body or flcjh it felf to eat, as he is the Lamb 
 of God that taketh away the fins of the World : And he 
 faith, Take , Eat, this is my Body which is broken for 
 you, &c. fo that the fame body is Commemorated and 
 Communicated : But how Communicated ? In the iffclis 
 of his facrifice: \{\%Body wa> given a facrifice to God 
 for us, and the fruits of that facrifice given to us. 
 And thus he was given a facrifice for the life cf the 
 world-, And thus we do receive him : By our bodily 
 taking and eating the Bread, we profefs that our fouls 
 take him to be our Saviour and Caufe oi our Life, both. 
 as Purchafing mdMeriting'u on Earth, and Interceding 
 and Communicating it in and from Heaven. 
 
 2. And this Doftrine will not ferve the Papiftsturn, 
 who tell us that Bread and Wine are ceafrd, and that: 
 Chrifts very flefh and blood is there, into which all the 
 
fubftance of the bread and wine are turned \ and that 
 his natural Body before his death, was in the fame fort 
 given under the forms of Bread and Wine as now • and 
 will not be beholden to this fubterfuge. 
 
 And indeed it is ftrange if the Sacrament at the firfl 
 Jnflitution fhould be One things and ever after another 
 thing • and that the "Bread ihould ever fince be turned 
 into Chriflsbody, upon the Priefts Confecration, and not 
 be turned into it, (becaufe not yet glorified) upon his 
 own words [This is my 'Body.} Therefore we muft let 
 this go, and fpeak of what they own and hold indeed. 
 And as for any other Bodily prefcnce, influence or com- 
 munication of Chrifts Body or SohI^ beddes that which 
 they call Tranfubftantiation, we have nothing to do with 
 it in this Controverfie, 
 
 That the fubftance ohhcBread and Wine is not turned 
 into the fubftance of [hefleflj and blood ofChrift,is proved. 
 
 I f Becaufe the Glorified Body of Chrift is not for- 
 mally and proper lyFlefi and Blood .'Though it be the f me 
 Body which was flejh and Blood. The Apoftle Paul 
 faith, I Cor. 15. 50, 51. [ Now this I fay, brethren, 
 that flejh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, 
 nor doth corruption inherit in corrupt ion ^ Behold, I pew 
 you amyfterie : We pall not all flee p, but we Jhall all be 
 changed.} It is not only Dr. Hammond, but other of 
 the be ft expofltors who (hew that by Fkfo and blood and 
 corruption here is not meant fin. but flejh and blood for- 
 mally confidcrcd • which is ever corruptible : And the 
 Papifts commonly confrfs this. If therefore it be flejlj 
 and blood which the bread arA wine are turned into, then 
 either Chrift hath two bodies, or two parts of one, 
 which are utterly heterogeneal, one flejh and blood, and 
 the other not -, one corruptible "and the other incorru- 
 ptible, 
 
 1 1, And this feigneth Chrift to be often Incarnate, 
 
 tv r en 
 
fi50 
 
 even thoufands and millions of times - y And to lay down 
 that Incarnate body again as oft as it corrupteth, and to 
 take up a new one as eft as the Pricft pleafe . and yet all 
 but one. Whereas the Church and Scripture have ever 
 told us but of one Incarnation of Jefus Chrift. 
 
 HI. A:id it is exprefly contrary to his promife Joh. 
 6. 51. I am the living bread wh;ch came down from 
 heaven : If any man eat of this bread, he jhall live for 
 ever: And the bread which I give is my flcfr which I 
 will give for the life of the world — - — v. 34. Who fo 
 eatetb my flifr ar.d drtnketh my blood hath eternal 
 
 life j-fc that cateth my fiefr and drink eth my 
 
 blood, dwelleth in me and I in him. As the living fa- 
 ther hath fent me, and I live by the Father, fo he that 
 
 Eateth me, even he frail live by me He that eat- 
 
 eth of this bread frail live for ever /] Thefe are 
 
 the exprefs promifes ot Cnrift. But the Papifts fay 
 that wicked men and unbelievers eat the flefr of Qorifty 
 who (hall not live for ever, nor have eternal life, nor 
 dwell in Chrift, but are more miferable by their hypo- 
 crifie. 
 
 I pafs by abundance of other arguments, becaufe 
 commonly ufed, and thefe are as many as my ends re- 
 quire ^ and I would make the Reader no more work 
 than needs, 
 
 L4 CHAP, 
 
CHAP. XL 
 
 'Tile Conclttftjii of the frft 'Booj^ : The Cattfes of Po- 
 pery. 
 
 A T Hive now made plain to you, i.What the Pro- 
 I tcfranu Religion is y ( or at leaft my own, and all 
 that I perfwade you or any other to embrace. ) 2. And 
 alio that it is granted to be ail true by the generality e£ 
 the Papifb fas is explained and proved. ) 5. And I 
 have told you, by an enumeration of fome particulars, 
 why I am not a Papi ft, and why I do diflWade you 
 from k. 4. And I have made good my fait charge , in 
 xht point of Tranfubftantiation, if any thing in the 
 world can be proved. The fecond I fhall leave till 
 another time, viz. Tofncw youhow hr their Religion 
 (as- Popiih ) is from Infallible Certainty ^ and what 
 horrid confufion is among them ; and how they have 
 done much to promote Infidelity in the world, by 
 bttfMing Religion upon fome notorious untruths, and 
 upon a multitude of utter uncertainties. Though I doubt 
 not but among them there are many true Clinicians, 
 who practically refolv* their faith into the furer evi- 
 dences of Divine Revel ation, yet I fhall clearly prove to 
 you, that all thofe whofe practical faith is no furer 
 or better, than the notional opinions of their Divines 
 will allow, have no certain faith or Religion at all : 
 And what impudency U k to make men believe, that 
 there is no certainty of Religion to be had, but in their 
 way, who build their Religion upon fuch a multitude cf 
 uncertainties and certain ialihoods, as will amaze you 
 when I come to open them to you, viz,, that ever fo 
 
 many 
 
many Learned men, and pcrlons or all ranks, can be 
 induced fo to jeft in the matters of their falvation. 
 
 And if I be not by death or other greater work pre- 
 vented, I hope in order to make good all the reft of the 
 Charges before mentioned, which are our Rcafons againft 
 the Popilli way of Religion. Inthe mean time tell me 
 what you think cf that which is already faid. 
 
 D. I know not how to confute what you have faid : 
 And yet when I hear them on the other fide, me thinks 
 their tale feems fair,and I cannot anfwer them neither: fo 
 that between you both, we that are unlearned are in a fad 
 cafe, who muft thus be toft up and down by the difputati- 
 ons of difagreeing Priefts,fo that w r e know not what a man 
 may fay is certain. 
 
 R. to this I have fevera! things to fay j i. Ordina- 
 tion doth not make men wife, holy, humble and felf-de- 
 *ying ^ but fets fuch men apart for the facred office, 
 who feek it, and have tolerable g:fts of utterance : And 
 it is too ordinary for worldly minded men, to make a 
 worldly trade of the Priefthood, meerly for cafe, and 
 wealth, and honour. In which cafe, do you not think 
 that the Papifts who have multitudes of rich benefices, 
 prelacies, preferments, and Church-power, and worldly 
 honour, are liker to be drawn by worldly intereft, than 
 fuch as I that am exceeding glad and thankful, if I might 
 but preach for nothing ? 
 
 2. Do you lay your faith and falvation upon plaufible 
 difcourfes ? and will you be of that mans faith, whom 
 you cannot confute ? Then you mult be of tvery mans 
 with : or indeed of no mans. There are none of all 
 thefe feds, fo hardly confuted, as a Porpijyry, a JnUan 
 or fuch like Infidels who difpute againft c£r$ft f and the 
 truth of the Scriptures ? or fuch S.idd'jcees as difpute 
 againft the Immortality of the foul. Alas, the tattle of 
 Papifts, Pelagians, Antinomians, Separating Quakers, 
 . • and 
 
and all iucn, iuppoiing tne trutn or tne joins immorta- 
 lity and the Scriptures, is eafily refilled and confuted, in 
 companion of their alTauIts who deny thefe our foun- 
 dations. And will you turn Sadducee, Atheift or Infidel 
 becaufe you cannot confute their Sophiilry ? I tell you, 
 if you knew how much harder it is, to deal with one of 
 thefe than with a Papift or any other Sectary, you 
 would (hake the head, to hear one man difpute for an 
 univerfal Monarch, and another difpute againft a form 
 of prayer, and another whether it be lawful to Commu- 
 nicate with dl (Tenters, &c while fo few of them all can 
 defend their foundations, even the fonts Immortality and 
 the Scriptures , nor confute a fubtle Infidel or Sadducee. 
 
 3 . What if we all agreed to fay that there is no Bread 
 in ;he Sacrament after Confecration > Were it ever the 
 truer for that ? Will you be deceived as oft as men 
 can but agree to deceive you ? There is a far greater 
 party Agreed againft. Jefus Chrift ( even Rve parts of 
 the World ) than that which is agreed for him : Will 
 you therefore be againft Chrift too? There are more 
 Agreed for Mahomet ( a grofs upftart deceiver ) thaa 
 are agreed for Chrift : And doth that make it certain 
 that they are in the right? 
 
 4. Will you deny all your fenfes, and the fenfes of 
 all the World, as oft as you cannot anfwer him that 
 denyeththem? Upon thefe terms, what end will there 
 be of any Con:roverfie, or what evidence fhall ever 
 fatisfie man } Have Papifts any furer and more fatisfy- 
 ing evidence for you, than fenfe ? 
 
 I pray you tell me • Did you ever meet with any of 
 them that doubt of anothtr life, or of the Immortality of 
 the foul ? 
 
 JD. Y~es, many a one : I would we were all more cer- 
 tain than we are. 
 
 
 *, And 
 
a. Ana what is it that iucli men would have to put 
 hem out of doubt ? 
 
 D. They fay that our talk of Prophets and fuperna- 
 ural revelation are all uncertainties • and if they could 
 ccy they would believe. Could they fee fuch Miracles 
 s they read of : Had they feen Laz^artu raifed , or 
 Jhrift rifen from the dead, &c. Had rhey feen Angels 
 t Drvilsor Spirits appearing: Had they feen Heaven 
 )r Hell, they would believe. 
 
 R. And are not you more obftinate than they, if 
 /ou will not believe that there is any Bread and Wine y 
 vhen you fee 7 feel, fmell } and tafie it, and all men that 
 lave fenfes are of the fame mind ? What is left to fa- 
 is fie you, if you give fo little credit to the common 
 enfe of all the world ? 
 
 D. But I ofc think that the faith of all the (fhurch 
 s much furer than my fenfe, or my private faith ? At 
 eaft: it is fafeft to venture in the common road, and to 
 "peed as the Church fpeedeth, which Chrill: died for, 
 md is his Spoufe. 
 
 R. i. But do you think that the opinion of the Papal 
 : afrion who are not the third part of the Univerfal 
 Church, that is, the Chriftian world, is the faith of all 
 \be Church f Why call you Opinion faith ? and a fed: 
 *nd faction, All the Church f 
 
 2, Indeed if all the Church did fet their fenfes 
 igainft mine, I would rather believe them than my 
 fenfes : For I fhould think, that I were in that point 
 'diftra&ed , or my fenfes by fome difeafe perverted > 
 which I did not perceive : I mean if it were in a cafe 
 where they had the affirmative : As if all England 
 fhould witnefs that they faw it Light at Midnight, I 
 would think my eyes had fome impediment which I 
 knew not of, if I faw none. But this is not your cafe . 
 The Papifts thetnfelves do not fet all their fenfes againft 
 
 yours : 
 
y6urs : mucn leis the lenies ct all mankind : They do 
 not fay, chat [IVe and all wen^ except the Protcftants^do i 
 fee , and feci , and tafie that Thtrc is no Bread and' 
 Wine. 2 But contrarily, You have the [cafes of all 
 the world, and the faith jot two or three parts of the 
 Chriftian world, againft rhc Opinion of one Se&, which 
 Schifmatically call themfelves All the Church. 
 
 D. But fuppofe that they trr in this one point, they 
 may for ail that be in the right in all the reft : Who is 
 it that hath no en\;r ? I mull not fur this one forfake 
 them. 
 
 k. u I will ftand to their own judgements in this^ 
 Whether all their foundation and faith be not uncettain, 
 if any one Article of their faith prove falfe? They are 
 all ( that ever I knew ) agreed of the affirmative : And 
 wili gW^ you no thanks \m fuel) a defence, 
 • 2. And if we come to that work, I 111 all prove all 
 the reft of their opinions before mentioned to be alfo 
 
 m. 
 
 'Z>. What then if I find but one point falfe in the 
 Proteftants Religion ? Muft I therefore forfake it all 
 ashlfe? 
 
 R. i. Still remember to diftingunh between our 
 Ob,cttvvc and our Subjcllive faith : or if you under- 
 ftand not tliofe word-. , between Gvds Revetatiqn and 
 Mans Bdi rf of it : or the Divine Ride arid Matter of 
 our faiih, and our faith it feif. And about our own 
 Belief you muft diftingutih between St mans ftdfeffcm of 
 Belief and die Reality of his belief. 
 
 All true Proteftants prefrf to take Gods word alone, 
 or his Revelation in Nature and Scripture , for the 
 whole Matter of their Divine Belief and Religion. 
 Bur who it is that pneercly bclicvcth little do I know : 
 ntT how much of this word any lingular pcrfon under- 
 ftandetlu and believetb, I can give vou no account of. 
 
 If 
 
p5T) 
 
 If perfonal faith were that which we difpute of, I would 
 be accountable for r.o nuns but mine own. In this 
 fend", There are as many Faiths and Religions as men : 
 For every man hath Ils Own Faith and Religion : And 
 if you know thai a man erreth in one point, itfollow- 
 eth not that he erreth in another. They that believed 
 that the Rcfirreiiion was paft , believed a fallhood : 
 and yet truly believed thai Chrifi was the Mefflah : 
 They erred that thought it lawful to eat things offered 
 to Idols • and yet they erred not in believing in (^hrift. 
 No two men in the world, its like, have the lame de- 
 gree of perfonal faith and knowledge • as I ofi faid be- 
 fore. But tf our profefTed ohjett of faith , that is, 
 Gods wordy were falfe in one thing, we could not be 
 fure that it were true in any thing. 
 
 Yet here I told you before, i . That a man may be 
 
 much furer that one fart of Scripture is Godswordjhan 
 
 mother •, becaufe fome Copies are doubtful in the di- 
 
 /erfe Readings of fome panicuiar words or fente rices ; 
 
 and which of them that fo differ is Gods word, we oft 
 
 l know not : But fo much as we are fure is the word of 
 
 God, we are fure is true : So if the Authority of fome 
 
 *tw bocks was once doubted of, ( as 2 Pet. Jam. jud* 
 
 Hcb. &c.) and yet be by any, it lolloweth not that they 
 
 loubt of the truth of any, which th^y know :o be the 
 
 vordof God. 2. Or if any do hold char the Penmen 
 
 might be left to ihcir ntural fallibility in fome by-hi- 
 
 |torical circumftances or words, it would not follow, 
 
 jhat one Article of the Gofpel or Chriftian faith is doubt- 
 
 |iil, which is plainly as the Kernel of it, delivered in all 
 
 he Scriprure, and alfo by infallible Univerfal Tradhi- 
 
 >n, by it fe!f y in the Sacrament , Creed, Lords Prayer 
 
 n&Decaloouc. 
 
 Ani 
 
And our cafe alfo much differcth from the Papifts in 
 this : For Weprofefs that our objective faith, ( Gods 
 word ) is Infallible, and we are Infallible fo far as we 
 believe it : But we confefs that we are lvable to w;/- 
 ■underftand fome parts of it ^ and fo far are fallible, as 
 being imperfect : But the Papifts fay, that their Pope and 
 Councils and Univerfal-/Vvi#*cfrj are perfonally Infal- 
 lible^ fo as not to be lyable to any mi funder (landing of 
 any Article of faith (iayfome) or Article of Catholic!^ 
 faith ( fay others ) : And fo they make their own A& 
 of Believing to be Commenfurate and equally certain 
 with Gods word of faith-, and therefore they allow you 
 to queftion them in all, if they err in one, as pretending 
 to a gift of never erring in any. 
 
 Z>. But is it not a great reafon to incline us to 
 them rather than to you , when They only pretend to 
 Infallibility , and You confefs that you are all fallible in 
 your Belief? 
 
 R. This is to be the fubjed of our next Conference, 
 and therefore not now to be anticipated •, only I (hall tell 
 you, that It is a meer noife of ambiguous wcrdsto de- 
 ceive the heedlefs that cannot fearch out the meaning of 
 them. I. We not only Pretend^ but Profefs and prove 
 that our forifti-an Religion is altogether Infallible, Por 
 which end I have written divers Treatifes my felf. 
 2. And we profefs that all the myftical Church of Chrift 
 ( that is all fincere Chriftians ) do truly and Infallibly 
 believe all that is SjfcntialtoChnflianity, and as much 
 of the Integrals as they can know. 3. And we profefs 
 that the Catholkk^Church-Vifble (that is, Jll prfcT- 
 fors of ' ftriflianity in the world ) do profefs all • 
 Ejfentials ot Chrifiianity , and are Infallible. ■ thii 
 profejfion. 
 
 But we hold wixhall 5 that there is no particular 
 
 Churchy 
 
Church, or Bifiop, no Synod or Council, that is /* /#- 
 fallible, but that, i.They that hold to the Eflentials 
 may mifunderftand and err about fome Integrals : 
 2. Andthofe per fans have no Certainty that they fhall 
 not err by Hcrefie or Apoftacy from Lhe Eflentials 
 thcmfelves : So that thtfl?urch\s lnfJUble, becaufe it 
 is ejfcntiated by believing an Infallible Word • which 
 whoever believeth not, ceafeth to be of the Church: 9 
 not Gods Word infallible , becaufe the Church cr any 
 number of men believe it, or fay Its true : For Truth 
 is before Knowledge and Faith : As Arifiotle was a 
 Philofopher, becaufr he under flood and uught the do- 
 ctrine of real Philofophy :, and not that dodrine cal- 
 led Phyficks or Philofophy, becaufe that Anflotle knew 
 or taught it. 
 
 But, alas, What work fhall I (hew you when I come 
 to open their bewildring uncertainties ? 
 
 D. But to deal i'reely with you, methinks their way 
 of meafuring out the Neceflaries in Faith and Religion 
 according to mens various parts and opportunities , 
 feemeth to me more fatisfa&ory than yours, who fix 
 upon certain points ( as ihe Bapttfr.al Covenant ) as 
 Eflentials. For there is great diverfity of mens Ca- 
 pacities. 
 
 R. This cometh from confounding feveral Queftions 
 as if they were all one. 
 
 1. It is one Q^eftion , What is the Qariftian Reli- 
 gion ? 
 
 2. £>Itis another Quefticn, Whether the Chriftian 
 Religion be abfoluteiy neceflarv to the falvation of 
 all rhofe to whom it was never competently reveal- 
 ed ? 
 
 3. And it is another Queftion , Whether more than 
 the Eflentials of Chriftian Religion be not neceflary 
 
 to 
 
to the falvation of many who have opportunity te 
 know more ? Alas, what work doth Confufion make 
 in the world | 
 
 To the h'rft, It is evident that as Mahometanifm is 
 a thing which may be defined , fo much more may 
 fortftianity : Who that writeth of the feveral Reli- 
 gions of the world, Ethnick, Jewiih, Mahometan, and 
 Chriftian, do not take them to be diftinguifhable and 
 difcemablc ? Efpecially when Chrift hath fummed up 
 Chriftianity into a Covenant , and given it us in ex- 
 prefs words , and affixed a flat promife of falvation 
 to the true Covenanters , and the Church hath ever 
 called our Baptifm , our Chriftening f Is Chriftiani- 
 ty Nothing ? If Something, Why may it not be de- 
 fined, and differenced from all falfe Religions ? And 
 if fo, It hath its EfTential Conftitutive parts. All this 
 is plain to Children that will fee. 
 
 2. And then as to the fecond queftion , it concern- 
 ed not our Controverfie at all. It is but Whether any 
 Infidels may be faved ? Or any that are no Chrifti- 
 ans > And if it could be proved , that: any are faved 
 that are no Chriftians , do you thereby prove that 
 they are Chriftians , or members of the Chriftian 
 Church ? or that Chriftianity is not a Religion which 
 may be defined ? 
 
 3. And as to the third queftion, We are on all fides 
 agreed in it, That they that have more than the naked 
 Effentials of Chriftianity revealed to them aptly , are 
 bound to believe more : Yea, it is hardly conceive- 
 able that any one fhould know and believe the Effen- 
 tials only, and no more : It is not EfTential to the 
 Chriftian Covenant or Chriftianity to know that the 
 Name ofChrifts Mother was Mary \ or that Pontius 
 PiUte was the man that condemned him ■ And if 
 
(i6l) 
 
 an Ignorant man thought that his continuance in the 
 Grave was four dayes , I do not think that this 
 would damn his foul to Heii : ( Mi ch lefs the not be- 
 lieving that Mary dyed a Virgin. ) And yet it is 
 not like that any nian lhould come to the EfTentials 
 of Chriftianity by any fuch way, as ihould acquaint 
 him with no one of theie, or any point befides the faid 
 EfTentials. 
 
 And yet it is certain for all this , that he that tru- 
 ly receiveth the EJJentzals , and is true to the Baptif- 
 mat Covenant y fl)*U be faved, whatfoever elfe he want ; 
 But it is as true, that he that Receiveth the Effentials, 
 will ( from the fame principles and obligations J re- 
 ceive more , when it is aptly notified to him ; And 
 he that truly Covenanteth , will honeftly keep the 
 Covenant he maketh • which bindeth !}im ftill to learn 
 of Chrift; But if any man be faved without the EJJen- 
 tials y he muft be faved without Chriftianity. 
 
 D. But you know that they diftinguifh of faith 
 Expltcite and Implicite : He may be Implicitely a 
 Chriftian that believeth not the E/Tentials Explicitely ± 
 as long as he believeth that which would infer them, 
 if they were made known to him to be indeed the 
 Word of God. 
 
 Ri Thus do Words abufe and cheat the ignorant : 
 Could you but read their own Dr. Holden before cited 
 in his Analyf. fid. you would find this diftindion 
 juftly rendred by him fhamefui and ridiculous, ac- 
 cording to their common fenfe and ufe of it . and the 
 truer fenfe delivered and vindicated. An Implicite 
 faith or Knowledge we confefs to be true, as it is op- 
 po fed to i. Adijlintl, or 2. To a well-expreffed faith 
 or Knowledge. For it is Implicite, (r> 1. As to the 
 Objett, when a man knoweth the whole matter, but not 
 
 M by 
 
by diftinB farts : As a man may know a Cup of wa- 
 ter, and not know how many drops or drams it is . 
 or he may know a fentence , and not know how ma- 
 ny letters are in it. 2. Or it is Imf licit e as to the 
 
 Ait-, when it is yet but a 
 Apply this to Mr. johnfom Re- crUC ( e imperfeft conception, 
 
 loynder on this Point, ana you • % , . • „ , ' 
 
 will fee his vaity. and the thing is really known, 
 
 but not the Logical notions, 
 or Grammatical names, either the verba oris or men- 
 tis by which it fhould be exprefled : So that the 
 man cannot notifie his knowledge to another. Thefe 
 two are called Implicite; the firft fignifieth Confrfed 
 and General Knowledge, and the other Imperfetl and 
 undigeftcd. 
 
 But to call thvxlmplicite faith or knowledge, which 
 extendeth only to fome Principles , and not to the 
 Conchifons themfelves , is 1. To Call No-knowledge 
 and faith , by the name of knowledge and faith. 
 2. And by their application to confound the World 
 and the Qourch, and to make all the Infidels and Hea- 
 thens to be Chriftians , and every Fool a Philofo- 
 pher. 
 
 For, 1. All men of Reafon know thefe two Princi- 
 ples (who own a God), I. That God is not a Iyer, 
 bat all his Word is Trite. 2. That all the Truths in 
 the world are God's, fome way or other revealed by 
 him. Therefore, if they knew that the Gofpel were 
 Gods word, they would believe it : or if they knew 
 it to be one of thofe Truths that are in the world, 
 they would take it to be of God. And thus all Infi- 
 dels, and Turks, and Pagans may ( by fuch abufe ) be 
 called hnplicite Chriftians. 
 
 But why then do the Papifts burn the Protectants! 
 when if their Religion were true , wc are all lmpli- 
 
 citely 
 
citely rapijts. hor we believe, i. lhat all Divine 
 
 Revelations are True • 2. And that ali thofe are In- 
 
 I fallible whom God hath promifed to make Infallible ; 
 
 3. And that all thofe mull be believed and obeyed 
 whom God hath commanded us to believe and obey ► 
 
 4. And that we muft not forfake that Church which 
 God hath commanded us to adhere to -, 5. And that 
 ail our Lawful Pallors muft be reverenced and fub- 
 mitted to ^ 6. And all their lawful Precepts obeyed, 
 7. And all Gods Sacraments holily ufed ^ 8. And 
 all Traditions from the Apoftles to the Churches 
 received • with many more fuch : Only we .know 
 hot that the Popmis our Paftor , or that his Coun- 
 cils are the Churcn, or have a promife of Infalli- 
 bility i and fo of the reft. And yet we muft burn 
 for it, if they can procure it. And yet he is a. true 
 believer Implicitely who believeth not the EfTentiais of 
 Chriftianity. 
 
 But the Dcfign which is predominant here .is too 
 vifible , when this Implicke faith cometh to be de- 
 ferred : For it is not a Belief in GW, or in Chrift 
 only that will ferve the turn, but it muft be a belief 
 in the Qhurch, and their Church, and their Pope too, 
 or elfe it will not do. The Implicite faith is the 
 explicite belief of thefe three Articles .• 1. All Gods 
 Word is true : 2. All that is Gods Word, which the 
 Church tells us is Gods Word. 3. The Pope and 
 his Council and Subjects are this Church. And yet 
 this man muft be fuppofed if he know no more, per 
 impojfibile, not to know that there is a Chrift, or who 
 he. is as to his Perfon or Office, or what he hath 
 done, or will do for us : And yet that he hath a 
 Vicar and a Church. Or elfe they mav know Chrift 
 and Chriftianity before they know that there is any 
 
 M 2, Pope 
 
(i<S 4 ) 
 
 Pope or Church , and then the Pope hath loft the 
 Game. 
 
 D. But if Popery be fo fenfelefs a thing as you 
 make it, how come fo great a number of perfons of 
 all ranks and qualities , Kings, Nobles, Learned men, 
 and Religioufly-difpofed perfons to embrace it ? Have 
 not they fouls to fave or lofe as well as you ? and 
 do they not lay all their hopes of Heaven upon it? 
 and can iuch perfons, and fo many , be fo mad and 
 fenfelefs ? 
 
 R. Do we need thus to ramble round about , as 
 if we would doubt of the tbina^W we know the 
 fynfes of it ? when we fee and^Wey all confefs that 
 they deny all our fenles ? Will you not believe that 
 there is a Sun , till you know what it is made of ? 
 Or whether the Sea ebb and flow, till you know the 
 Caufes of it ? I pray you tell me, 
 
 Q. i. Do you think that the Mahometan's is not 
 a very foolifh Religion , and their foundation ( the 
 pretended Million of their Prophet ) without any (hew 
 of truth ; and his Alcoran ( if ever you read it ) a heap 
 of Non-fenfe and Confufion ? 
 
 D. Yes : I think it defer veth no better thoughts. 
 
 R. And do you not know that ( though it arofe 
 not till about fix hundred years after Chrift ) much 
 more of the world is Mahometan than Chriftian ? 
 And are there not far Greater Emperours and Princes 
 Mahometans than any that are Chriftians ? And have 
 not all thefe fouls to fave or lofe ? And do they not 
 all venture their fouls upon that Religion ? Why then 
 is not your argument here as good for Mahometa- 
 nifm as for Popery? 
 
 D, Though the Emperours of Confiantinofle , the 
 Great Mogul , the Perfian , Tartarian Mahome- 
 tans, 
 
(165) 
 tans, &c* be all Great as to their vaft Dominions, 
 yet they are barbarous and unlearned in companion 
 of the Papifts. 
 
 R. i . It is not becaufe they have not as much wit 
 as we : but becaufe they think that our laborious wor- 
 dy kind of learning, is an abufe of wit , and againft 
 true Policy , ludicroufly or contentioufly diverting 
 mens minds and time from thofe employments which 
 they think more manly and profitable to the Common- 
 wealth ^ Though no doubt but they do err more un- 
 manly on that extreairu But I further ask you, 
 
 i^_2. Do you not think that the Common Reli- 
 gion of the Heathens is very unworthy for any 
 wife man to venture his foul upon ? If yon have 
 but read how it is defcribed by the Antient Chrifti- 
 ans, JnftiHy Athenagoras^ Origen y Arnobius^ Minn* 
 tins Foelix , Tertullian , Lnciantius , Eufebim 9 An- 
 guftine^ &c. you will fay that they thought it a ridi- 
 culous unmanly Religion. 
 
 D. I think no better of it than they did. 
 
 R. And i . Do you not know that almoft all the 
 World was then Heathen and Idolaters ? Alas, what was 
 Jttdta ( lefs than England) to all the world? Was 
 not the Roman Empire , and Alexanders before that, 
 far Greater than any Chriftian Prince hath now ? 
 And to this day , are not four fixth parts of the 
 whole world ( at leaft ) Heathens and Idolaters ? 
 Brierwoods Calculation is, that if you divide the 
 world into thirty parts , nineteen are Heathen , fix 
 Mahometans , and five only Chriftians of all forts c 
 befides the vaft unknown parts of the world, which 
 are not like to have any Religion of fupernatural 
 Revelation. 
 
 M 3 2, And 
 
(i66) 
 
 2. And do you not know, that Athens and Rome- 
 Heathen were no Barbarians , but of molt polite li- 
 terature , and the Fathers of the Learning now in 
 ufe • and that when the Chriftians arofe among 
 them, they accounted them Barbarians ? And at this 
 day , and long before us , the Chinenfes have been 
 addicted to ,4-rts and Literature : And the Brack- 
 ?h.iiiu and ionz.il are no Barbarians. And have not 
 a;] thefe fouls' to Live- or lofe ? And are all thefe fo 
 mad as to call away their fouls upon a fenfelefs con- 
 temptible Religion ?' If your' reafon be good, how 
 much more will it hold for the Heathens , than the 
 Papi/ls? Alas, what a handful are the Papifts in com- 
 panion of the plvLnt" Idolaters ! much more. in corn- 
 Rarifon of the Ant lent Heathen world, before Chri- 
 fijanity and M \ihoivctanifm difpofTefled them of thofe 
 which they now hold ! 
 With wfiat greater fhew of advantage did the Hea- 
 thens ufe the Arguments which the Papifts do now pur 
 their trull: in, and lay their Caufe upon ! 
 
 Do. i luy, talk of Antiquity I Why, it was the 
 Novelty 'of Qy-ijiianity in comparifon of Heatbenifm 
 through the f worfd, which was it that hardned them ra 
 contemn, and perfecute it. 
 
 2. Do tli^-.^'k cf Vnivcrfelity and Confer : v 
 Alas, how little, a pan: of the world were the Chri- 
 ftfians at firfr^'aud.are the Papifts now, in comparifon 
 of the Heathvss, .then and now ? 
 
 J, Do tlicy^tiaik.of Greatnd; ? Empire , Ads and.' 
 Learning ,?, How. little are they as to the firft , to 
 the Heathen Empires ? And tor Learning, they re- 
 ceived it of them : And Arijtofle ftill is the S 
 mens Oracle. And yet doubtlefs all thefe advan- 
 tages are not fufilcient to difprove the follies of Hea- 
 
 thenifiq, 
 
( *°7 ) 
 nifm , nor the badnefs of their Religion ? And yet 
 will fo much lefs ferve to fupport the credit of 
 fnfelefs Popery ? 
 
 D, But Chriftians may well expect greater helps 
 fr >m God, than Heathens or Mahometans : Thereiore 
 that fo many Great and Learned and Reiigious Chrifti- 
 ans fhould go fuch a fenfelefc way to another world, 
 methinks feemeth ftrunge. 
 
 R. And are not Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Abaf- 
 fines and Protectants , all Chriftians as well as they ? 
 Their proud fchifmarical unchriftenmg all but the 
 fubje&s of the Pope, is a filly proof i.hat we are no 
 Chriftians, or that they are any better than others ^ 
 unlefs Malignity , uncharitablenefs and Schiim be the 
 true Excellency. 
 
 i . And are not other Chriftians More than the Pa- 
 pifts ? Bifhop Bramhall reckons the Papifts to be 
 about the fitlh part of Chriftians : Suppofe they be a 
 third part ? They are ftill the Minor part. 
 
 2. And are not the Proteftants as Learned as the 
 Papifts ? Why then will not your argument hold 
 sigainft them as well as for them ? Have not all thefe 
 Chriftians fouls to fave or lofe > And do they not 
 take that for the true Religion on which they truft 
 their fouls ? 
 
 jD, But though all thefe fet together are more than 
 the Church of Rome , yet no one Se& of them is 
 fo great • and what matter is it how many various 
 Sefts are ? 
 
 R. i. The Greek Church is judged by wife men, 
 te be yet bigger than the Roman, even in this its broken 
 ftate : But there is no doubt but it was much bigger 
 long after the flrft divifion , before the Turk did win 
 the Eaftern Empire. 
 
 M 4 2. But, 
 
2. But, if it were not fo, your objection is frivo- 
 lous. The Queflion is either of Different Churches, 
 or of Different opinions and parties in the fame 
 Church. As to the firft, There are but two opinions 
 in the Chriilian world, that I know of, about the 
 Conftitution of the CathoUck^Church. The one is the 
 opinion of the Papifis only, £> that The Catholick^ 
 Church is effentially constituted both of Chrifl, and the 
 c JPope as his Vicar and universal Monarch, with a.11 
 his fub jells -, as the pars Imperans and pars fib- 
 dita. 
 
 The other is the judgement of all other Chriftians, 
 ( that I know or hear of, ) that The Catholick^ £hurch 
 is effentially conflituted only of Chrifl as the fupream 
 Head y or King, or pars Imperans, and his fubjetts as 
 the pars fubdita s £3* And that Patriarchs, Arch- 
 bifhops, Bifhops, &c, are but Officiales & fubditi 
 primarii vel nobiles, cenflitutive parts indeed of 
 their particular fourches (Tome humane, and fome 
 Divine ) but no effential parts of the Catholic!^ 
 Church, 
 
 £J* This is the Grand difference between the Papifts 
 and all other Chriftians in the World, What the Catho- 
 lu'K Church is I Whether it have anyConftitutive Vni~ 
 verfal Head or Monarch befides Chrifl ? Now fee- 
 ing that Greeks, Abaffmes, Armenians and all agree 
 with us in this againft the Papifts , it is evident to 
 them that are willing to fee that we are all of the 
 fame Catholic}^ Church , though not of the fame 
 particular Churches , nor all for the fame Offi- 
 cial Minifters . Becaufe we are all for the fame Con- 
 ftitutive Head, and his fibjelh as fuch, and agree in 
 all the EfTential parts, tfj* So that our differences 
 among all thefe parties or particular Churches or 
 
 Coun- 
 
Countries is but the difference of Opinions and parties 
 in one and the fame Church -, and not a difference 
 of Catholick Churches ( which can be but one. ) 
 
 And if that be the queftion , I undertake to 
 prove that there is no one Se& of Chriftians 
 known under Heaven, that hath fo many different 
 opinions within ic felf, (if halffo many,} nor have 
 written half fo much againft one another, as the Pa- 
 pifts have done. 
 
 3. But I muft not here anticipate my further 
 work: when I come to that, I (hall (hew you how 
 fmall and how disagreeing a part of the Chriftian 
 world the Papifts are. I have elfcwhere recited 
 the words of their Mekhior Canm who boafteth 
 that the Papacy yet ftandeth, though almoil all the 
 world, and befides Princes, alraoft all the Bifhops 
 and Churches have fought againft it. Was it then 
 the Univerfal Church ? And the words Oi." Rcynerim 
 who faith, that the Churches of the Armenians and 
 the others planted by the Apoftles ( wkhout the 
 Empire he mear>eth ) were not under the Pope of 
 Rome. I (hall, if I live to do that work, yet ful- 
 lier (hew you, that the Pope was but the chief Pa- 
 triarch in one Empire, as the Archbifhop of Can- 
 terbury is the chief Bifhop in England \ and that 
 his General Councils were but General AfTemblies 
 r of the Empire ( inconfiderable occafional acci- 
 dentals excepted ) , even as our Convocations, or 
 the Scots General AfTemblies were, though in a 
 ! far larger Empire. But all this I have done already 
 I in other writings,beyond all reafonabie contradiction. 
 D. Tell me then, how it cometh to pafs that 
 fo many Princes, Nobles, Learned men, and Re- 
 ligious can be fo marvellouflv deluded? 
 
 R. Alas 
 
(1*0 
 
 R. Alas poor man •, You talk as if you knew 
 not your felf nor mankind I how bad a thing cor- 
 rupt unfan&ified nature is I Why do you not alfo 
 ask, How cometh ic to pafs, that the far great- 
 eft part of the World ( even five parts of fix J 
 are Heathens and Mahometanes I and that moft of 
 the World are wilful felf-deftroyers ; many ruining 
 their very bodies, Eating, and Drinking, and Whore- 
 ing, and Idling them into Gowt, Stone, Dropfies 
 and an hundred Maladies : but far more ruining 
 their fouls. Why do you not alfo ask, How rea- 
 fonable Creatures ( of all Profeftions ) are fo worfe 
 than mad, as to fell their fouls and everlafting 
 hopes, for a dream and fhadow, or for dirt and 
 dung j even for a few Cups or Morfels, or merry 
 hours, which they know are like the mirth of 
 drunkennefs, which is quickly gone, and ends in 
 ficknefs and in {haute / For a great Name, and 
 a large attendance in their way to the grave 1 For 
 the thoughts and breath of mortal man 1 And for 
 that which all men fir/t or lad, are forced to call 
 meer Vanity and Vexation I Were not men mad 
 in fin, had they never heard a Preacher, the fight 
 of a dead Carkafs and a grave would do more to 
 make them fober and confiderate, than is done 
 with mod. When moft of the World will obfti- 
 na.ely follow the Devil their enemy, by known 
 fin to evcrlafting milery, againft all the commands, 
 exhortations, promifes, threatnings, mercies and 
 warnings of God himfelf, and all the perfwafions of 
 their trueit friends, What wonder if the fame men 
 can be Papifts or any thing ? 
 
 But I will tell you fome of tlu j particular 
 Caufes, 
 
 I, Abroad 
 
(*7*) 
 
 I, Abroad in other Countries, there are all thefe 
 Reafons eafily difcernible, i. Who knoweth not 
 how great an advantage Education hath, to form 
 mens judgements to almoftany thing, how bad fo- 
 ever ? That which children receive, if it be not dif- 
 flgreeable cc their fenfible intereft, how commonly 
 and tuuciota Jo they follow ? Whence is it that the 
 whole Fmpires and Kingdoms of Pagans are all of 
 one mind ; and the Kingdoms of Mahometans of 
 another ? One Kingdom almoft all Greek Chrifti- 
 ans and another Papi/ls, and another Lutherans, and 
 another Reformists, &e ? Hath not education a great 
 hand in this ? 
 
 2. And the cuftome of the Countrey, and the com- 
 pany which they converfe with, is of no fmall pow- 
 er with mens minds. Efpecially when men \ivt 
 where almoft all are of a wind, they think that con- 
 cord is a fign of tnith, and mode fly forbiddeth them 
 to be wifer than all the Countrey. 
 
 3. And when they know few or none of another 
 mind, how fhould they know what they are ? And 
 when they hear an hundred lies againfl: them, and 
 never hear them fpeak for themfelves, they think 
 that the Law of modefty, humanity and converfe, ob- 
 lige them to believe, that fo Many, fo Great, and fo 
 Learned and Religious perfons will not impudently 
 lie : When as perhaps thelve it felf is a Tradition 
 which the lyars received on the fame terms in modeft 
 credulity from their teachers or fathers. 
 
 4. And fpecially, the Names of Order, Govern- 
 ment, Vriity, and Qoncord., deceive many millions of 
 fouls : For Order and Vnity are juftly amiable to 
 nature it felf. And the purblind know not an Image 
 from a Man* 
 
 5. Efpecially 
 
U70 
 
 5» Efpecially when civil Wars, or Church dif- 
 cords have diftra&ed the World, and made men 
 aweary of all that's prefent, and fufpicious of all 
 things, which feemed to have a hand in their dif- 
 appointments ; this maketh men hearken to any 
 thing which pretendeth to certain fcttlement, Order 
 and peace. Even as a man that by turning round 
 is wheelfick, will lay hold on the next poft or 
 fixed thing, to keep him from falling down. 
 
 6. And when their Teachers make them believe, 
 that all Chriftians befides them do live like mad- 
 men, in Se&s and Scjiifmes, diftra&edly tearing 
 out one anothers throats, What wonder if this make 
 men willing of any way which pretends to peace, 
 znd glad to run into any Cottage which will keep 
 them from fuch a ftorm ? 
 
 7. But the great caufe is, 1. The 'Blindnefs of 
 mens minds, 2. The wickednefs of all unrenewed 
 hearts, and 3. The power of carnal Interejh 
 
 1. Few men are of great natural parts for wit, 
 and fewer improve them, by any ferious ftudy of 
 things fpi ritual. 
 
 2. Almoft all men ftudy with the byas of pre- 
 judice and partiality, and as men that would have 
 one fide to be right , becaufe it is for their worldly 
 ends. 
 
 3 . Sin Ruleth in moft fouls, and the enmity againft 
 God ajid his Laws prevaileth in carnal minds, Rom, 
 8. 6, 7, 8. And enmity is an ill ftudent and feeker 
 of truth ^ and friendfhip is an incompetent judge 
 of fin. 
 
 4. None but a few felf-denying perfons can bear 
 to be reproached as Hereticks and Schifmaticks by all 
 about them. 
 
 5. Efpecially 
 
(^73) 
 
 5- Efpecially the countenance or difcountenance 
 of Great ones, doth more with fuch than Heaven 
 and Hell. 
 
 6. And that's not all, But he that will not be a Pa- 
 pift, in moft of their Countreys muft be undone^nd in 
 many muft be rackt> tormented and burnt : And it is 
 but few that have learnt to go to fo high a 
 price for truih, and to be Religious at fuch a 
 rate. 
 
 8. Therefore it is a thing utterly unknown among 
 them, who is heartily a Papift, and who not. For 
 when men ngfl take on them to be Papifts or be 
 undone, or burnt, millions will feem to be fuch that 
 are not. For, 
 
 9. Moft of the World have no Religion in truth 
 and fower, to overcome the world and flefh : and 
 therefore will feem to be of that Religion, which 
 hath the upper hand, and ferveth their turns. 
 
 io. Yea, the very Belief of the Immortality of 
 the foul, the RefurreBion and the life to come, is 
 feeble, if not unfound and lifelefs, in the moft of 
 men : And fo is the Belief of the ftriftian faith : 
 And a man that doubteth whether there be another 
 life or not, will make as fure as he can of the plea- 
 fures of this prefent life. And I fear that this is 
 the cafe of no fmall number of Papifts . to think, 
 [_ u I know not whether there be any other life 
 c c of retribution : I rather think that there is none : 
 " But left it fhould prove true, I will be of fome 
 
 Religion : And where can I be with more eafe 
 
 and fafety, than in that which my Rulers and 
 cc Teachers and the whole Countrey fay is right > 
 " If it prove otherwife, I hope God will excufe 
 
 me, while I obey my Governours, and do as the 
 
 <c moft 
 
 cc 
 
 cc 
 
(174; 
 
 "moftdo. 3 He that much doubteth of the truth 
 of £hriftiamty it felf, may eafily fall in with any 
 Sed which feemeth for his intereft. I fear *JHc- 
 lantlhon too truly faid, that Italians maintain that 
 Chrifi is in the Sacrament , when they do not believe 
 that he ts in Heaven, 
 
 1 1 . And many Nicodemites think , that a man 
 needs not expofe himfelf to danger for his faith, 
 but may keep it to himfelf, and do as his neigh- 
 bours do : efpecially where they have no other fo- 
 ciety. to joyn with , they think it better to joyii with 
 the Popiih Churches than none. 
 ! 12. And I have re^fon co thinl^that it is but 
 few among the multitude, that underftand indeed 
 what the Papifts hold, while they go with them in 
 the general Name and profeflion : And in parti- 
 cular . about Tranfubftantiation : When even the 
 fubtle Schoolmen are not agreed of its proper 
 fenfe • (as Daraxdus his inftance for one doth 
 prove. J I do not think that one of an hundred 
 that rcceiveth their Euchariit, doth in his heart 
 believe, that It is not Bread : But fome think that 
 their Church it felf meancth othenvife : And fome 
 fay, Q It is not for fuch as I to contradict them 
 and difpute • but I will leave every one to think as 
 he will •, and fo will I.] 
 
 13. And as for Princes and Lords abroad, Thofe 
 that have once efcaped Popery will take heed how 
 they entertain it again , unlefs lufl and folly have 
 fold them for a prey : But they that live where 
 their fubjeBs are Papifts, dare not venture to fhake 
 fo great a fabrick, left they overthrow thcmfclves : 
 
 For 1. People are tumultuous - 3 
 
 2. The 
 
c 175; 
 
 2. The Popifh Clergie are rich and powerful and 
 exceeding numerous. 
 
 3. Religion is a thing that men are tender and te- 
 nacious of, who are ferioufly of any. 
 
 4. The Popifh doftrine of depofing and killing 
 excommunicate Kings, maketh many Princes flatter 
 the Priefts, for fear of lofing their lives. They 
 think that it is better make feme advantage of the 
 Popes friend/hip, than to have fuch an enemy, 
 whofe Kniv.s and poifon have eafie accefs, and 
 whofe armies we trufb watch againflj in peace, as 
 in a continued War, and we know not when they 
 are in our o^n holies or near us, nor where nor 
 whenweareinfafety. 
 
 14. And, alas, the Great ones of the World 
 have the gr sate ft Temptations, and no: ilie weakj 
 eft lufts and paffions, and have more of worldly and 
 carnal latere ft to carry them away ! 
 
 15. And the Papifts Religion is notably fuited 
 to their lufts and carnal ends : All which, and much 
 more, may tell you that it no wonder, that fo many 
 forreign Princes, and States and Nobles can cleave to 
 fo fenflefs a way as Popery. 
 
 D. II. But how come fo many among us in 
 England to turn Papifts of late years, where Po- 
 pery is difcountenanced by the King, Parliament 
 and Laws ? 
 
 R. Many of the fame Caufes do this, which I 
 need not reherfe. And 1. Too many both Noble 
 and ignoble are prepared by their Lnfts, and by a 
 vicious life. There are many things in Popery 
 which greatly accommodate a carnal mind and a 
 debauched guilty Conscience, which the Chriftian 
 f rote ft ant Religion affordeth not. And a profligate 
 
 flagitious 
 
flagitious perfon, is likelieft to be forfaken of God , 
 and to be given up to believe a lye , feeing they 
 received not the truth in the love of it , that they 
 might be faved , 2 Thejf. 2. 10, 11, 12. I fear no- 
 thing fo much , as left men turn Heart-Infidels and 
 Tongue-? api ft s ( as the fuitableft Rcferve, \d\Chn- 
 ftian Religion and the life to come , ihould prove a 
 truth ). And indeed great fins Cry for great Ven- 
 geance : And what Greater than for Mind, Will and 
 Life to be forfaken of God ? 
 
 2. And alas, except Lawyers, Phyficions and 
 others bred up to Studies and Employments, how 
 few are there of Nobility or Gentry that are hard 
 ftudying men 1 And the great Myfteries of Religi- 
 on will not be well learned and defended, by a 
 life of eating, drinking, playing, jeafting, gaming, 
 hawking , hunting , vifitings of empty company, 
 luftiiilnefs , worldlinefs , or vain-glorious pomp. 
 No men grow wife or Chriflians indeed by fuch 
 a eourfe* 
 
 3. And indeed the Popiflj Trie (is are more in- 
 duftrious than too many 01 our Incumbent Minifters ; 
 for which they are Commendable in their way : 
 The Erroneous are oft more zealous than the Or- 
 thodox, And they that apprehend themfelves be- 
 tween fear and hope, are ufually more tnduftriom 
 than they that by poffeffwn are fccure : which 
 maketh the lower fide fo oft get up , and the up- 
 per fide go down. And I would I might not lay, 
 that our Minifters are too few of them able t& 
 deal with a trained Sophifter ; Some are 'unable 
 in this particular canfe , becaufe they take it as a 
 baffled pack of notorious Errors, and thought that 
 few fober perfons were in danger of it ; And fo 
 
 they 
 
they have ( honeftly ) bent their ftudies and la- 
 bours to the winning of fenfual perfons from their 
 (ins ; and are unfurnifhed in the Popi/h Contrc- 
 verfies •, knowing that they can refer them to mul- 
 titudes of Books , which are unanfwerable. But 
 alas, too many alfo are unable through meer ig* 
 7iorancc, lovonefs of parts } and grcfs infufficiency or 
 negligence , not only in this , but other parts of 
 their Ministerial work. 
 
 4. And we have incurred no fmall dammage 
 and danger , by ignorant Over-doing againft the 
 Papifts : Partly with the fe If ^voife Sectaries^ calling 
 many laudable or biamelefs things , by the Name 
 of Popery, y Antithriftianity and Idolatry , becaufe 
 they are crofs to their pre- judging partial con- 
 ceits : And. partly by fome unfonn'd dcclriner , 
 which fome defend as parts of the Proteftant Reli- 
 gion : And partly by magnifying verbal differences, 
 and making a noife about them as if they were 
 reaU and fuch as falvation lyeth on : For want of 
 skjll to ftate a controverfie , and difcern a verbal 
 difference from a real. And when a Papift can 
 but fhew their Novices one fuch palpable error in 
 the Writings of a Proteftant ^ What fad work will 
 he make with it ? and ftill harp upon that firing, 
 and perfwade the people that the reft cf our diffe- 
 rences are fuch like. And thus many Overdoing 
 weLI-meaning ignorant men both Minifters and 
 people , have unwittingly done as much to harden 
 Papifts , and increafe their numbers , almoft as if 
 Satan had hired them as Spies, to betray the Chur- 
 ches and Caufe of Chrift : Yea, and ii^ one better 
 ftudied in thefe points , fhall go a founder and 
 
 N more 
 
.. (178) 
 more fuccefsful way to work, and take thcfe wea- 
 pons out of the Papifts hands, which fome igno- 
 rant Proteftants have given them , the fame mens 
 blind zeal will rage againft them , ( as fome did 
 againfl Chillingwortb, Anthony Wotton, and divers 
 others our greateft Champions ) as if it were not 
 themselves but thefe , that were befriending Pope- 
 ry. So that they, neither can confute them found- 
 ly themfelves, nor will fuffer others, but zealous 
 Proteftants affault Chrifts ableft fervants at their 
 backs , while their faces are towards the adverfa- 
 ries whom they oppofe. 
 
 5. But nothing among us ( except Ignorance 
 and wickednefs ) increafeth them more , than the 
 fcandal of our numerous , and fome of them abo- 
 minable Sells. When the people fee many zea- 
 lous profefTors turn Quakers, or Ranters, or Seek- 
 ers , or Antinomians , or Socinians, or Familifts- 
 • and fhall fee the more tolerable parties ( Epifco- 
 pal, Presbyterian, Independant , Eraftian, Separa- 
 tifts, and Anabaptifts ) condemning, backbiting, 
 reproaching and making odious ( if not perfecute- 
 ing ) one another, and fhunning ( many of them ) 
 the Communion of one another , as they do the 
 Papifts. This makes them think , that they mull 
 feek fome furer foberer way than any of us have 
 yet found : and the Papifts fee in arid tell them, 
 \_ u Ail thefe are branches broken ott from the 
 u true Vine and withered ^ This it is to depart from 
 " the Catholick Church •, when they are once gone 
 " thence, there is no ftop or confiftence , nil they 
 " crumble all to duft and atomes : You mutt be- 
 !* come Roman Catholicks, or go mad : You fee 
 
 "to' 
 
<I79) 
 M to what confufion all others tend : If you once 
 " leave our Church , you will never know where 
 "to fettle : Which Setf: will you be of ? If 
 "an Independant , why not an Anabaptift? 
 u If an Anabaptifl , why not an Antinomian ? 
 " How will you ever know which one of all 
 '< thefe is in the right 3 ? All this is eafily an*- 
 fwered by a man of underftanding ; But to 
 the ignorant Vulgar , it feemeth unanfwera- 
 ble. And alas , how many have given them 
 this fcandal ? Wo be to fome by whom offence 
 cometh. 
 
 6. But the Contentions of' our Clergie ad- 
 vantage them more than the divisions of the 
 people : when we are of many interefts , and 
 many parties , and proceed to make each other 
 contemptible and odious : efpecially when we come 
 to hinder each other from the work, of our Mi- 
 niftry. A houfe and Kingdom divided cannot 
 ftand : Chrift tells us that the Devil himfelf is 
 not fo foolifh , as to divide his Kingdom * *All 
 our confent and bed endeavour is too little to 
 fave mens fouls from fin and error : And when 
 one fart is cafi by, and each part by contention 
 hindereth the other : the Papifts have the far 
 eafier work. When one part are not to come 
 within five miles of Cities or Corporations , 
 where Papifts are , and thofe that may come near 
 them are too few , and many too indifpofed , or 
 negligent in refifting them • fo that we are all 
 overdone by their Prkfts in conftant diligence, 
 ( efpecially with the Greater rank^ of men , with 
 whom one part of our Minifters , have almoft as 
 
 N 2 little 
 
little inclination as opportunity to converfe , ) no 
 wonder if the Roman work go on. 
 
 7. And, alas, how great advantage have they 
 made of cur late calamitous Civil Wars, and ma- 
 nifold fcandalous Rebellions ? Though indeed it 
 was the terrour of their murdering about two bun- 
 dred thoufand in Ireland ( of which fee Bi/bop 
 Jones , Sir John Ttmple , and the Earl of Orery 
 againft Weljh, ) which frightened thole that I was 
 acquainted with, out of their peace , and al- 
 mofl out of their wits here in England, yet dead 
 men are not heard on Earth, and their iervice for 
 the King in England ferveth not only for a Cloke 
 for that, but for an advantage againft many that 
 (land in their way. In all Civil Wars, if the 
 Clergy be drawn in to own ftveral Caufes ( efpe- 
 cially if they own an ill fiiufe ) who ever pre- 
 vailed, Religion furTereth by it . while one part 
 of them are laid by, or hindered by the 
 other. 
 
 8. And though God hath greatly obliged this 
 Nation to thankfulnefs, by preferving our Superi- 
 ors fo much from Popery as he hath done, yet 
 fome of their names are injuriously abufed, to en- 
 tice men to the Popifh way, as if it had fo much 
 countenance and patronage, that Jnterefl might ia- 
 vite them to ir. 
 
 9. And the World is lyable to changes, and 
 weary of holding long in one way : The name of 
 -Antiquity efpecialiy in Religion is venerable with 
 all \ but yet it is Novelty that pleafeth in the 
 Matter. And when Fopery is to m a New way 
 honoured with the name of the old Religion, it is a 
 taking bait. . 10. But 
 
flU) 
 
 io. But the grand caiife of all, is, the common 
 peoples Ignorance , as being ungrounded in their 
 own Religion j and their badnefs, who meafure all 
 by carnal Jnterefts, and all our great and manifold 
 fins, by which we have forfeited Gods prefence 
 and his grace, and provoked him to leave us to the 
 fhame and ruine of our own lufts and delufions to 
 undoe our felves. Great fins bring great plagues. 
 And moft men are of their Religion who have the 
 greatefl inter eft in their eftimation and affeBions , 
 or that have gr^ateft advantage on them by con- 
 ft ant neamefsy familiarity , kindred , ktndnefs 
 or power to do them good or hurt in the World. 
 
 And Therefore to your quefticn Why fo many of 
 late turn Papjfts, I fhall but now conclbdingly an- 
 fwer you, as T begun with you, concerning the 
 Caufe of your own doubts ; They that have long 
 lived under the light of the holy Gcfpel , and 
 among the mercies which have bleft this Land, and 
 yet have been fincerely no true Chriftians, but 
 ioved their fiefhly lufts and pleafures, and their 
 wealth and worldly honour, more than God, or 
 holinefs, or Heaven, it is no wonder that they 
 eafily change their party, and can be, in ftding y 
 of any Religion who are in fmcerity of none - 
 and if God forfake their underftandings, and give 
 them up to fenfeiefs and unreafonable opinions, 
 wl^o would not live according to the knowledge 
 which they had, nor obey the truth which was 
 clearly opened to them, And fuch hypocrites and 
 perfidious rebels againft Chrift, all Proteftants do 
 confefs themfelves to have been , who turn Papifts, 
 and know what they do : Becaufe they frofefs to go 
 from a ftate of damnation, into a Church <mt of 
 
 N 3 which 
 
(iSO 
 
 which there is no [ah at ion ^ if the Pcpcs judge * 
 ment ' be as powerful in Heaven, as it is at 
 Rcmc. 
 
 D. But is there no hope of ending thefe la- 
 mentable differences, and removing the fcandal of 
 Infidels hereby ? or at lead: of living together like 
 Neighbours without feeking each others blood or 
 ruine ? 
 
 R. i. Yes • when God fhall by his Providence 
 take down the worldly Greatnefs and Advantages 
 of the Papacy, and level the King of Rome with the 
 true Paftors of his Church, and turn the ufurping 
 Monarch of all the World into a true Bi/hop •, 
 that fo worldly Power, honour and wealth, may 
 not be flronger arguments with their party than 
 Heaven and Hell, and Gods commands. Till then 
 their Great twifted Intereft is like to rule them, 
 and keep them in the errours into which it hath 
 involved them. Efpecially while their pretended In- 
 fallibility ( againft all fenfe and reafon ) is their 
 ltrength, which makeji them uncurable in any errour 
 which they once embrace, 
 
 2. But yet I did in the fecond Part of my Key 
 for Catholickj^ long ago fhew the terms on which 
 we may live like neighbours, if not like Chrifti- 
 ans } if their principles would allow their minds, 
 to be but peaceable, and give diffenters leave to 
 live. 
 
 And I ftill pro fefs that might we but fecurc our 
 fives and our poflcrity, I am none of thofe that 
 would have the leaft injury, much lefs cruelty ex- 
 ercifed upon any man for being a Papiffc : If they 
 will live peaceably with me, or but give me leave, I 
 will live peaceably vyirh them. And I doubt not 
 
 but 
 
Km) 
 
 but as there are fome among them truly fearing 
 God ( though corrupt with the errours of ihcir 
 education ) lo there are more that are of kind 
 and civil natures, which their ill opinions cannot 
 make fierce and fanguinary nor overcome. And 
 none of them, I think, ihall be more loving . kind 
 and peaceable to me, ..han I will be to him. 
 
 And I confefs 1 have a greater refpeA and ho- 
 nour for thofe whole Anceftors have tranfmitted 
 Popery to them under the name of the True Ca.ho- 
 Jick faith, and who live according to what they 
 know (though perhaps in blind zeal they hate me 
 and iiich others for the Intereft of their way,) 
 than I have for thofe that feemed once Proteftants, 
 and by filthy debauched lives have made it feem 
 needful or convenient for them to turn Papifts, 
 that they may have a feeming Religion and Priefts 
 pardons to quiet or deceive their Consciences ^ or 
 than I have for thofe Papifts who live in drunken- 
 nefs, Iuft and common lying and prophane fwear- 
 ing, while yet they feem to be Religious and re- 
 gardful of God and their fouls • or than I have 
 for thofe Priefts who befriend fuch mens wick- 
 ednefs for the increafe and intereft of their Church. 
 
 Yea, I truly profefs that if I know a truly 
 Godly confcionable charitable Papift, I muft, I 
 will love and honour him far more than an ungodly, 
 unconfcionable, uncharitable Proteftant. And as far 
 as I can difcern, both Minifters and private Chri- 
 ftians ( but efpecially Minifters ) whom I moft 
 converfe with, are of the fame mind. 
 
 Z>. But is there no way poffible to bring them 
 fairly off, in this grofs bufinefs of Tranfubftantia- 
 
 N 4 tion. 
 
tion, without putting them upon the difclaiming 
 of the Popes and General Councils Infallibi- 
 lity ? 
 
 K. I am not bound to devife accommodations 
 to ftrengthen them in their other errours, if I 
 could. But yet I would cure any errour in any, 
 ! hough they intend their own cure to an evil end. 
 I cannot be perfwaded but their underftanding 
 iron are forry at the heart that the Lat crane 
 Council hath drawn them into fuch a fnare, by 
 making Tranfubftamiarion an Article of their faith • 
 and that they are very angry at them, and wifh 
 that it had never been done : but being done 
 they mud take on them to believe it, left they pull 
 down with their foundation all their fabrick. I 
 doubt not but they are troubled and afhamed to 
 read the Schoolmen*; difputes of Tranfubftantiation, 
 expofing Chriftanity to the Infidels fcorn, which 
 this Council hath mod occafioned. I know not 
 how to bring rhem off, unlefs they will hearken 
 to what Dr. Taylor in liis Diflwaiive from Popery, 
 and Dr. Hcylw> and Dr. Fierfon and Dr. Gaining 
 in rhe Difpuce, have faid againfl the Validity of 
 that Later Ant Council (could they but fpare the 
 Canon for depoflng Temporal Lords, and difpof- 
 ieifing them of their Dominions, and abfolving all 
 their Papifts fubjefts from their Oaths of Allegi- 
 ance and exterminating the reft ^ Yea it would 
 be more ferviceable to them at laft with Princes, 
 to retract that alfo, than to keep it. ) Their belt 
 way is to take the help of thefe pretences, and 
 condemn the contrary Reafons of Mr. Tcrret and 
 his iellow Difputanr againfl the forefaid Doctors, 
 
 and 
 
and expunge that Council out of Binn'ms, Snrim 
 and the reft who number it with the approved 
 Councils ; and becaufe Mattb. Tar is and others fay 
 that fome at the Council thought the Canons bur- 
 denfom, and they were brought in by the Pope, 
 and haftily read, esrc* therefore fay, that They were 
 not pa/Ted at leaft Conciliariter, which you know is 
 a word that ferveth their turn againft another Coun- 
 cil which they diflike. 
 
 D. But what fhall they do with following 
 Councils, efpecially that at Trent y which fay the 
 fame? 
 
 R. The beft fhifts that I know are, i. To do 
 as they do about the condemning of Pope Honori- 
 rius as a Heretick. They fay that a General 
 Council and Pope too may err in a matter of 
 fad: 5 and fo they did in judging of Homrius 
 his meaning : So they may fay , that the Coun- 
 cil of Trent did decree this as an Article of 
 faith, only becaufe they thought that the Church fo 
 held it : which was becaufe they thought that 
 the General approved Council of Laterane had fo 
 decreed it : But now rinding that it was not fo 
 decreed there , the error in matter of fad ceaf- 
 ing , which was the fuppoficion , the doctrinal 
 error proveth to be no Article of faith, or Conci- 
 liariter dccrctum* 
 
 2* Or if this will not do , they are beft yet 
 ftretch the words of Rome and Trent , to a more 
 tolerable figniflcation , and fay , That it is not 
 the ceafing of the fubftance of Bread and Wine 
 which is meant ; but the changing it into a Re- 
 lative new form : And fo, as the Whole fnbftance 
 
 'f 
 
of a man is changed from leing a meer Common 
 man , into a King , a Btjhop , a Doclor y with- 
 out any ceflation of his Humanity y but only 
 quia forma ultima denominat r he is not any 
 more to be called meerly A Man , but A King y 
 A Bijhep , &c. Or, as the whole fubftance of a 
 piece ol Gold is changed into Currant Coin by 
 the Kings Stamp, &c. So the whole fubflance of 
 Bread is turned into the ( Reprefentative ) Body 
 of Chrtfl , and the whole fubflance of Wine in- 
 to his ( Reprefentative ) blood - 7 which change they 
 cal I Tranfubfiantiat ion. 
 
 Bur why (hould I give counfel to men that wil] 
 not thank me for it , and that obftinately refufe 
 much better ? 
 
 JD. But why fpeak you nothing of their deny- 
 ing- the people the Cqp ? I thought you would 
 principally have faftned on that; 
 
 R. Becaufe it is no part of this prefent Con- 
 troverfie , which I was firft to handle , though it 
 concern the fame Sacrament : But it is fuch an 
 inftance , as ferveth to tell thofe of the world that 
 will underftand , what horrid unreafonable , auda- 
 cious arrogance and Vfurpation and Treafon againfi 
 God and the true Head of the Church , this pre- 
 tended Monarch of the world , and his pretend- 
 ed Catholick Church ( the Popifh SeA ) arc 
 guilty of : confidering, 
 
 1. That it is as ejfential a part of the Sacra- 
 crament as the Bread is : For Chrifl hath made 
 no difference. 
 
 2. It hath the fame Initiation and exprefs Com- 
 mand : He that faid, £ Take , Eat J faid alfo 
 
 [ Drink, 
 
U87) 
 
 [ "Drinks ye all of this : ] He hath fkid, [ Do 
 this in remembrance of we ~\ of One as well as of 
 the Other. 
 
 3 Therefore to take away an Bjjential fart, 
 is to take away the Sacrament , and make it ano- 
 ther thing. As it is not a humane body that hath 
 not both Head and Heart : So here. 
 
 4. Therefore by the fame authority they might 
 have continued the £)//>, and taken away the Bread ^ 
 or have taken away both. 
 
 5. And on the fame reafon they might have 
 taken away Baptifm, and all Chrifts pofitive Inftituti- 
 ons. And for ought I know the Miniftry it felf as 
 inftituted. 
 
 6. But then Cerfons queflion , de auferahilitate 
 Tap* would be next to be debated : For were he 
 of Chrifts own Jnftitntion ( as he is not ) it is 110 
 more than the Cup in the Lords Supper. Could 
 he but prove an Inftitution of his Papacy as evi- 
 dently , who would not be his Subjed ? If you 
 fay, But who fliould take him down , if it might 
 be done ? I anfwer, Kings in their own Kingdoms, 
 and his own General Councils. The Kings- of 
 France, Spain, &c. may eafily prove , that they 
 have more power to caft out the Pope , than he 
 hath to call: out half Chrifts Sacrament : And 
 they may better forbid their own Subjects to obey 
 a forreign <itf)$per , than he can forbid all the 
 world to ojHf Chrifl^** 
 
 7.^Wf^Dr all thi$j|Wre wit of man can hard- 
 ly dfyfe What Reafon they have to do it ? What 
 point of their Religion ? What Intereft of their 
 own did engage them to it ? Unlefs it be their 
 * Intereft 
 
(158) 
 
 Intereft to (hew that they are Ajove Chrift 
 and the Scripture , I do not yet difcern their 
 *eafon. 
 
 8. And yet they have, with Refolntion and ob- 
 flinacy, perfifted herein divers hundreds of years, 
 and denyed the requefts of Emperours, Nobles, 
 and great part of feveral Kingdoms in this point. 
 
 This and the leaving out the fecond Command- 
 ment , feem to be of purpofe to (hew that they 
 are above the Maker of the Ten Commandments 
 and of the Gofpeh How long Lord (hall Ty- 
 ranny opprefs the Nations of the Earth, and the 
 Honour and Domination and Wills of Rebels , pre- 
 vail to tread down Truth and Godlinefs, and keep 
 the notice of thy falvation from the fmful mifera- 
 ble world • whileft yet we daily pray by thy Com- 
 mand , that Thy Name way be Hallowed , Thy 
 Kingdom e come, and Thy Will be done ^ on Earth 
 as it is done in Heaven ? 
 
 Whether the Pope be the Antichrift meant in 
 the Scripture ( by that name ) or not , you fee 
 that my paifing it by doth (hew my cauteioufnefs 
 in refolving ( as Zanchy and others before me 
 have done ), becaufe I am confeffedly fo far un- 
 ftudyed or ignorant of the fenfe of the Revelati- 
 ons and fome other Scripture Prophecies , as that 
 I muft leave fuch cafes to fuch as Bifhop Dow- 
 ntime and others that have deeper infight into 
 them : Every man (hould be bed at that which 
 he hath moft (ludyed. But I mud: needs fay, that 
 though T take it to be indifpenfible duty, to keep 
 up all due charity to all profefled Ghriftiarrs- fuch 
 inftances, as thefe which I have here opened do ut- 
 
 • terjy 
 
(is?; 
 
 terly di fable me from confuting that man , who 
 fhall aflert that this pretended Vicar of Chrift, 
 and King or Monarch of the world, ( and fo King 
 of Kings, and Lord of Lords ) is an abominable 
 Ufurper, and infolent Tray tor , againli God, and 
 the true King and Head of the Univerfal Church* 
 How long will Princes and Prelates , Learned and 
 Unlearned be deluded by him , or fear Power ? 
 And when (riall he be reftrained from hindering 
 Chrifts Gofpel, and the Peace and Concord of the 
 Chriftian world ? 
 
 FI^CIS, 
 
The Reader is hereby advertifed, 
 That the Firft Part of the l\ey for 
 Catholicks, being Re-printed and to be 
 Bound with this ( as the Chief Part 
 of the Book, ) thofe that have that 
 Part already, may have this Bound 
 alone. 
 

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