>U/— •►"ViV M ■ ■ V ;' . 'V ■n. ^€.. .f FROM THE LIBRARY OF REV. LOUIS FITZGERALD BENSON. D. D. BEQUEATHED BY HIM TO THE LIBRARY OF PRINCETON THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY i ^(rij. J)am-C4 CONTINUATION O F T H E Friendly Debate^ By the fame K\xtkov.2)'9U,'^' rov. I4."i<5. lA wife man fiareth and iifarteth from evil, tut tbejoal ra^eth and is confident. ^:» oftdotj, Printed for R. Royfton, Bookfeller to ic King's moft Excellent Majeftyjiddp. Digitized by the Internet Archive in 2013 http://archive.org/details/contoffrOOpatr To the Readers. I Shall only detain you fo long as to tell jou a fevp things that concern the Motives to this Work, and the Author of it. For the former , take it from me (who know better than iny body elfe) they are none but the ^Authors love to 'truth and Peace ; and his Charity to well-meaning and abufed people. Think what ou pleafe ; / am fure he is not naturally [ovar a n quarrelfome y much lefs angry with any man meerly becaufe he differs from him. He hath "jot been exafperated by contending, nor put out f humour by fierce difputings ; for he hath no Difference with any man living ; he neither 'Oves Divifons , nor lives by them. He hath ts much refpeB alfo and regard at he dejires : ^0 much as may fe cure him from the temptation f envying , and the mean arts of fee king to rain a reputation to himfelf by difpar aging o- her men, jis for hopes of preferment i which hne havefaid are his end , hefides that heftu- iioufly conceAles himfdf , I declare y that if he Jt Z wsrt To the Readers,' were capalle or defirousof it, he would not he at fo much pains tofeek it, 'jtnd as hefeeks not to gain any worldly thing hereafter by his writing , fo he lofes nothing at prefent by that which he writes againfl. For neither he, nor any of his friends {that he knows of) receive the leji prejudice by any mans Non-conformity , or feparated ^SWeeiings ; andfohejhouldnothave taken any notice of them , if Religion had not been concern d» But he is very fen f hie that this fuffers very much ; and that which many Mini- fters who keepfeparatcd jiffemhlieSy' cannot con- demn y is condemned , nay defpifed , by thofe that follow them. For there is undoubted evi- dence that their not coming to the Common-pray- ers , and not declaring plainly the true reafon of it, makes mahyflofid aloof of, and abhor our Service, as if it were the Mafs, The people are. feldom at leifure to ex^amine the Reafon of things , nor apt to put themf elves upon that work without much urging : but they are always]^ ready to follow the example of thofe whom they admire , and the lejs they knovp why^ the more forward they are to out-do the Copy they chufe to imitate. So that the ^iinifters not doing what they can in compliance with the efiablifh'd vrd^r , and not declaring fwcerely the caufes why To the Readers? vphytheydonoty is interpreted to a farther ah- horrenccy than they {if they durfifpeak out) ara willing to ojvn. When they do hut fignifie their difguji y and that their pallate is not pleafed ; their follojvers are naufeated prefently , and their fiomacks turnd. If they make an halt, or a (lep hack ; thofe get the hit between their teeth : they kick and fling and run away. Now though this bogling and fiarting may he looki upon by many credulous and well meaning peo^ pie, as the effeB of a commendable caution y or a quick fenfe and perception of an approaching mt [chief y and of an exaBer difference they make between good and evil, than others do ; yet experience tells u^ the contrary, that the. more ordinary caufe is defeB of eye-fight and corifufed apprehenfions of things, Ignorance and humour, if not reflivenefi and Jadifh tricks. For to give but one palpable in fiance of this among many ; have you not ohferved at the^uneral of a Friend when a Sermon has beenpreacht, hew apart of the company , as fnon as they come to-> ward the Church door , prefently draw off and Ceparate from the reft , as if they were going about fame Idolatrous fervice ? Would not a (iranger think that fame noifomc and offenfivs vapour or fiiflingfmoak afiended from our De- Jl 3 votioni, To the Readers" 'Vottons , which made thefe men fojhte to enterl till hy thefinging of a Pfalm they had notice gi- ven that the air was clear and fit to heath in, and then it may he they came in i But when lyes the offence all this while , if we may he wor- thy to under fi and it ? Is it in the white garment wherein the ^Unifier officiates? But why, i pray, is this more trouhlefome (unlefs to thi Tricks I [poke of) than a black one ? There is nothing frightful fure in three fentences of Scrip- ture, in reading aP[a\m of Dawid, or a leffon of St, Paul ; andyet this is all, fave the Glo- ria Patri at the end of the Pfalm , which one would think might efcape with fair quarter , ef- pecially now that their purfuit feems to be fo hot after the fre(h game of Socinianifme. know there are feme fober perfons who diffent from us, that are not thus skittijh ; and finding them humble, mode ft and not cenf or ions , I not only love but honour them with all my heart. There are others alfo , who from the womb have been taught to ft art afide and to abhor our fer- vice ; and being unable to reafon and uncapahU cf better information, Ipitty them very much. Let them but be quiet and not feek to govern us by their fancies and prejudices, and I for my part (halt not look upon their averpon as a vice, if To the Readers. fthcy mil not account it their great Ver- ne, For vrhat if fome Children receive im- ireffons and inclinations in their infancy from their Mothers hig-hetlied frights or longings, rrhich they carry with them to their graves t What is the World concern d in this, or in thofe mens unaccountable Antipathies ? Is any man more commendable/(?r them ? Surely no ; but oftentimes more tiouhlcCovnc. Tou have feen it's likely a perfon {pardon the infiance lufe, becaufe it's familiar ) as foon Of the Cheefe af- ter Meal has been fet on the board, prefently make [curvy faces and change colour, flop hit tiofe, or run in hasl out of the room ; yet neither the Mafler orguefls are farther concern d in this, than topitty, or perhaps but fmilc or (lightly complement the mans infirmity 'y and tione forbears the more to tafl that hath a needt or a good likij-7g. But you never h cardie f any fuch man who, in a conceited humour, thought fit in this cafe, that his particular averfion Jhould prefcribe to all others; or raifed fierce dilutes about it in every company ; and con- tended that this was no Primitive food, or at leafi that our way was not the Primitive way cf making it : that indeavoured bufily to make a party againfl it among the indifferent and un- \A 4 inclind iTo the Readers.' incllnci either to love or hate it : inuch le^that reviled and gave reproachful Nick-names to thofe that ufed it, and fought for Orders to hanifh it from every Table. If you could fup- fofefuch prodigious folly, you would not blame the Neighbourhood, especially the Officers, if they were concern din it, or any that /hould re- prefent the ridiculoufneJ?,or the malice offuch an undertaking. I know the infiance is not con- fiderable enough to be apply ed to all things at this day contefied, but to a great many it may ; and exprejfes well enough the humour of thofe, who, according to their breeding, feemwith an equal paflion to oppofe every thing they diflike, even to the colour of a Garment, or thefafhion of a Girdle. Tou have enough (Readers) concerning the Motives to this continuation of the Debate, whenyou are only told this farther, that the Juthor having heard of feme excepti- onsagainfi the former Book, thought good to Jnfwer, and ( as they deferve ) to [hame them i^this. It is like iomc oio\xi deceived Bre- ^ c- u thren will hold this labour damna- Confutation blc atiQ execrable, as being be- ofthe BrowS ftowed in their opinion, againft the '^^ ^' '• Church of Ghrift, againft the Saints, and Children of God and his Holy truth :i To the Readers.' truth : To rrhom I dnftver as the Nonconform mijisdidto ths Old Separatijfs, Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my Mouth when I endeavour to fpeak> and my Pen fticlc to my fingers when 1 attempt to write any thing, againft the Church , the Children, or the Truth of God. But the Errors and follies in thofe rrhom I think to havefome good- ne^in therrty may I hope he reproved^ without \heing thought to reprove their goodne{i : l^ fides y hy endeavouring to keep them from being Right- eous overmuch, I take a courfe to preferve them from becoming too Wicked. jind now I believe nothing would be more grateful to fome than to know the Authors name : but I have nothing to fay to them, but that i^ is an impertinent curio ftj to inquire any farther after him, fince he hath no mind to be known, and fince there is no need of it. For his name can add no credit or firength to his Rea- fons ; and as for matters ofFaB, he hath di- reBed you where to find them, without inquir- ing after him to be re folved about them. But fany body think it good manners to inquire into that which others would have kept fecret ; Xet \ am fure it argues great want of good breeding Jo fay no 7nore) to befpatter {asfo?ne have done ) To the Readers' done ) this and the other perfon whom they only conjecture to he the jiuthor ; Laying to their charge things that they know not. Let me advice them to he more Civil ; Since 1 am fare they do not yet know me, nor I helieve, ever Jhalty unle(il pleafe; and fince by difiurhing themfehes and others ftill in this kind, they are like to reap nothing fave their own further Jhame. I end with the good Counfel which Mr, Whittingham long ago concluded a * Troubles Letter of his withal "^ Know be- at Frandfort, fore you iud2e,and believe not all Printed^ 1575, n • ^ 1 1 liying tales ; keep one ear open, and report the belt. jipril 1$. 166 g. Imprimatur. Tho. Tomkyns, K. R^^ in Chri(lo Patri ac Domino D^° Gilberto Divina Provi* dentid jfrchi-Ep, Cant, a Sacris Do- mefiicis^ Apr. 24. i6'5p. ; Ex -3x1. Lambeth^ The Contents^. THeNon conformifts af- fected language and fooHQi imitation of Scrip- ture-phrafe noted pag.ijX About taking Gods name in vain, and breaking the third Command 3,4,&c. The Covenanters highly guilty of it 8,&c. How Ur.Cafc taught them to take the Covenant 13,14 ( Some pleaded lleligion ^or breaking it 15 I Contrary to the foleran rroteftation taken by both [Houfes before i6,&c. Non-conformlfis offended It the Friendly Debate, and ivhy 2.1 The Apoflles fenfe of^;r- '-ng no offence, iCor. 10. 32. 2.2 The Debate not guilty of 23 Ncn-conformifts did not c heretofore that they :ght to forbear reading oraraon -Prayer , becaufe tome faid it gave them fcan- al ^ 24, 25 Great fcandal of Schifm lb. Ofgrieving the Godly 27 Non-conformifts guilty of ■ in the proper fenfe by ca- ing fcorn on Divine Ser- hv vice and our Governors a8^2p Mr. O0> Eridzc an inftance of this 30,&c. Juft feverity agalnft fuch defamers petitioned for by themfelves heretofore 32,35 Anfwer to another obje- ftion againft the Friendly Debate for being writD'ia- logue-wifej^a 34 Non-conformiftshave writ Dialogues too , and thofe veryabfurd 34>35j&c. Mr. Hughes's Conference noted ihtJ, And two mors Ancient, one of which teaches to de- pofc Kings, ^c. 4ij43 The Non-conformifls pre- tence of not being guilty in breaking the Lav. 3, becaufe they ire ready to fufferthc penalties, anfwered 44*45 Their prefumption that it is his Majefties pleafure they {hould take this Liberty a- gainil the La^vs , anfwered 47,48,&c. Their change of Princi- ples, who held heretofore, that the Law was the Kings Superiour 52.,&c. Mr. T^J. Bi-iJgef remark- able for this Do6trine in a Book of his publifhed by Au- t n E CO Authority 54>&c. More "inftances of their changing for their intereft 58,59 This remarkable in the Army Saints <5i,&c. Who writ after the Copy fet them by their Superiors (57,(58 That the Author of the Debate is of a harfti, bitter and jeering fpirit, anfwered at large ^9* to']'] Railing not the better, becaufe in Scripture phrafe ibfj. Some inftances of Non- conforraifts reviling lan- guage, the better to (hew whence the prefent railers learnt theirs ?8,7p,&c. Reflections upon a paf- ^ fageinMr. C?p 82,&c. An inftance of fan(5tified wit as they call it 85,85 Jome famous Avw Eng- land preachers guilty of foul .language 88 That it hath wofuUy in- fe(3:ed the people is appa- rent 89 And it is an old difeafe 90,91 How they were ferved in their kind 9X,P3,&c. ' The Author falfely accu-^ fed of writing out of Ma- lice, ^f. 10I,&C. N r E N 1' S. How the Non conformlfls defpife thofe that are not of their party io<5 The Authors moderation inhiscenfures 108 How he hath dealt with Mr.-Bn%? 108,109 Hi sway and fpirit further difcovered iii,ii2,&c. Particularly, that it is An- tlchyijiian and fchifraatical, as appears by the Jermon of ChetwoWitnefTes ii9,&c. His dangerous dodtrine about their power to difturb the ftate,C5'r. I20,&c. His prefixing the time for it out of the Rev:;!, ii^.&c. How often they have been deceived in their con- jedures I24,i25,&c. About this time I3i,i32,&c, The danger of interpre- ting every judgment that be- fals, in favour of their con- ceits I28,I29,&C. A rare interpretation of the prophecies forenamec from 135. to 14: A reflection upon thofe bold deceivers 142,14; The caufe of thefe com ceits 14; Their prefumption thaj their platform (hould be pattern to all Churches 147.143* Mr.OJehis high opinion of .7 H E CO of the Covenant iSijiSi His, and Dr. J'Tz/A.-m/owi, and fome of the Scots and o- ihers opinions of us iSii I54)i55,&c. And of the favours they receive from others i6o Of their Canting phrafes, as Gcncration-viorky vsitnef- Qng tiwc from \6\, to \l6 Dr. Wilkinfom confidence noted i68.i<59 How they have (liifted and changed phrafes to ferve heiriurn 170/0 178 Of the power of phrafes hinder men from obfef- ng how they have been heated i73>&c. The power they fancy they avetodeflroy us i78,&:c. Their opinion of their :nowledge and worth 181, l82,&C. Of their praftice and kill in expounding works f providence 185, &c. 1 heir people not more nowing than ours 194, iP5,&c. Many know not whac that which they cry out againfl ipS,&c, Inftances in Popery, fu- rllition , Will-worfhip x/.'»J. 6c204,2.05,&C. About forms ofprayer 207 Their forms of railinr» n N 7 E N7 S, which they ufe even in pray- er,^f. 2o8,&c. Their fmallskill,fave on- ly in phrafes 2i3,&c. As appears by their eafie turning to the wildeft ^6t3 xis A famous inflance of this mNt^w England 2i5,&c. Miftakes about the Spirits teaching and infpirati- onSy^c, 2ip This, together with the obfcurity oftheirDo<5trinea great caufe of peoples doubts and defertions 2.21 An inftance of the intri- cate way of Mr. Hooker to fa- tisfie a doubting Chriftian 222 And to bring it to the promife as he fpeaks 224,&C. Hence the 'Ncvi England whimfeyes 227 Mr. J, Durants w^ay of comforting believers and opening AScriptures 229, 230,&C. They are no betteratre- folving doubts about parti- cplar adions 232,&c. How Religion hath been fpoiled of late and expofed to contempt 237,&c. Non-conforraifls great want of Modelly 243,&c, Con' 1 H E CO Concsrning eminent men Of judging others ; in what things we . may, in whatnot 24 9,6cc. Charity covers a Multi- tude but cannot or may not cover all fins a52..&c. By what means propha- nefs came to abound 254 ,&c. Publicans and Harlots,or Scribes and Pharifees,which the wdrfe 259 Ac The danger oF Schifm and feparated Congregati- ons . z66 Mr. Bridge his vain con- ceit that we are angry be- caufe they withdraw from us and flight us 2(57,&c. How 2 Cor, 6. 17. is abu- fedby hira to countenance the fepar.^.tion 274 By which and fuch like the old Brozi'tiffls and more ancient Donatifts jnftified their Schifm 278,&c. The wife and charitable courfes to which St. Aufiin dire(5tsus when men are ge- nerally bad 28l,&C. Mr.Cjf/Wn/ judgment of a true Church and reparation from it 283,&c. And Presbytenan Mini- fiers judgment 287 cv^S. 19. p. doth not countenance the reparation N r E Nt S. 289 The impertinent allegati- on of that place Rev, 14. 4. by Mr, Bnd^ 291 How the people have been cheated with the noife of fuch words as Bab^lofi^Scc, 292,&C. And by other means 294, &c. Of Idol Mlniflers 300, 30i,&c. The folly of thofe who think our Miniflers (out of refpeit to themfelves) are troubled to fee people go to meetings 30$,3o<5 The true reafon of their trouble, and the great dan- ger of feparation 307,308 &c Not only to thofe who are of it,but toothers 310,11,12 The great extremities it hurries men into 313 The Presbyterian' excufe that they feparate not from us as Antichriftian, confide- red 3 14 Ac It makes their caufe the worfcjif it be true 318 \\ hich tenderconfcienc men (hould confider, efpeci ally remembring the iiTu 320,&^ The diforders among th( Independents, when in Hoi land 323,&c And more anciently a- raon 7 R E C -N mong tlie old Separatifls 325 to 330 No fecurity againft the like,or worfe again 330,&c. In vain to bewail thefe Divifions unlcfs we take a courfe to amend them 333, &c. "What belongs to private peifons to do in order to it 335, 3^, &c. Not fludy fo much their Governors duty, as their own, and what that is 339 to 343 Of yielding on both fides The ancient Non-confor- mifts did not think they Hill ought to preach when they were deprived ; but the con- trary that they ought not 345,^c. The idle pretence of forae from that place, lYo ke to nje tf I preach not, confuted 348 to 350 And of not confulting whhfl/hand blood 351 Non-conformifts do it too much 353 Life why do they not ireach as the old Non-con- [Forraifts did, how lawful fet brmsare,&c. 353 And teach this with great ^arneilneis 357 i^fpecially conGderlng how ' r E N t s. miferably fome are prejudi- ced agatnft them 358,&c. That exception anfwered though a form be lawful yet ufclels 36c,&c. Some reflexions on a Book called Commonprayef Book Demotions Epfcopal De- iuftOfUjSLC, 36'2 The prophanefs , and chollerick fcurrility of it 3<53,(54,&c. The Ignorance and bold- nefs of thePrefacer 366,&c. Mr. Cariwyight not againft a fetformofPrayer,&c. 368 How vainly he vapours with the name of Mr. Parker 370 And abufes Mr. Green- ham 371 But above all Dr. J. Key- noldsj who lived and dyed conformable in all things to the orders of the Church of England 372, 373,&c.' Some of the little reafon- ings in the book anfwered 376,&c. The abufe of a place of Scripture noted 37P The Liturgy fraels not of the Mafs book 380 Antiquity of Liturgies by their own conFeffion 382,&c. The prefuraption and un- charitablenefe of this Wri- ter 384>&c. His 1" H E CO His main Argument an- fwered 387,&c. After all hisbluftering he allows a prefcribed form to fee lawful 3po.,&c. And is fain to wreft feme Scriptures in favour of con- ceived prayers 393 His falfe arguing from yfr.7.3i.and fuch like pla- ces 394,&c. How that place Dcut, iz, 32,is wont to be mifinterpre- ted 3P7,&:c. It was the manner of Mr. y,G, to fpeak confidently, be thecaufe never fo bad 401, 402, &c. Non-conformifts general- ly guilty of too much confi- dence 404 A grofs corruption of Dr. Sthbs his fouls conflict after his death,noted 405,4o5,&c Of Forms of Prayer and ofimpofingthem 409, &c. SmeEiymnutis aWovjGd im- pofitions in fome cafes 411 The Presbyterians were againftaToUeration of the Independent way 4i3,&c. The Independents alfo impofe their own devices 5c have forms alfo,&c. 4i5»&c. Of Ghriftian Liberty, N t E N f S. The opinion of Mr. Durj^ and Mr.C'(?«0K,&c. about this 42-3.2.4 Of Penalties 425 The opinion of Prefby- terians and Independents formerly about them 427 How the King himfelf was abridg'd of his Liberty 42-P,&c. The Independents for punifnments 432,&c. Some good Counfels out of Mr. Bernard 435,&c. How to behave our felves in doubts 440,&c. Some good Rules to guide our felves by 443,44 What to do if we think that is finful which Autho* rity commands 445 Rom. 1 4, 23. Whatsoever is not of faith ^V^«, opened 445 Of fear to offend others 447>&<^' The great want of charity and fuch like graces 449 How thefe good Counfels were contemned by the fe- paratifts 450^ A defcriptixJn of them 45 r ' The Refolution of tlie Presbyterian heretofore a- bout Uniformity and Obedi- ence to Laws 454 > *V v<*^ ^*\ • ^*^ ^*^ /*»^ v<^^ >r*'!i vt'!i • rl^ iTl'Tc /t'^x jT^'^i A C ONT I NU AT ION of the Friendly Debate. YO U are well met Neigh- bour, How do you? A^. C. Very well , through Mercy. Why do you figh ? C. To fee you fo far from mend- ing your Schifm, that you proceed to make it wider; and divide our very language. Why cannot you fpeak as the reft of your Neighbors, and fay , Well 1 thank Gad ? Is it a jcommendable thing to be Singular without any need ? and to feparate |from us even in your words and iforms of fpecch ? Or is this a part of the Language of Canaan (fo much B talkt i A Continuation' of talk't of in the late times ) to be learnt ofallthofe, that will be ac- counted the People of God i N. C. Take heed how you fpeak again ft the //r^^/ of God. They are a peculiar people, and muft not do after the manner of the Nations. C. What Nations ? Do you take us to be all Heathens ? Nay , fuch Heathens from whom you are not only to feparate your felves, but utterly to root out ? N, C You carry our meaning too far. C No farther than fome of youi Secftdo, whom you have taught in a foolifli and dangerous manner tc imitate the Scripture Phrafe; anc to apply all that concerned Ifrael to Themfelves ; and all that con cern'd the feven accurfed Nations , o Egypt ani Babylon^ to their Neigh bours. N.C. lamnotone of thofe; bu I and many others, whenwe ar askt about our welfare, dare no fpeak as you dO; left we Ihould tak God the Friendly Debate. "iods fjdme in Vain : of which ymi now Ifrael was to be very careful. C. Is it to no purpofe then to hank God for our own and our Fa- lilies health? Or to pray God ^ould be with our Friend when we leet or part with him? Perhaps on think that Boa::^ took Gods ame in vain, when according ro he Cuftome in Ifraelf he faid ro his eapers, the Lord he withyou : and hat they were Oflfendors for reply- ig, tke Lord hle(s thee. I doubt ere 3ng you will refufe to fay upon oc- afion, GOD SJVE THE CING, for fear of taking Gods ame in Vain. N. C. Notfo. We can ufe fuch /ords when we are very ferious, but ot commonly. C. You made me believe , the aft time we talkt together, that !ou were commonly y if not alvrayest lierious. But now it feems the ^^orld is altered with you. N. C. We are afraid you are not lierious ; but ufe thefe words fo ' B 2 care- A Continuation of ^ carelefly that you break the Third Commatjdynent : upon which accountf we would teach you to refrain them.' C. You are excellent Interpre- ters of Holy Scripture! What rare Comment fhould we have upoi it, if all your Expofitions were but gathered and put together ? As you find words now ufed in common talk, fo they found to your fancy there : And this makes you take it fooft into your mouths in vain; I mean bcfides its purpofe and inten- tion. Alas! that you fhould be no better inftrudled than generally to entertain this conceit, that a man breaks the third Commandment, ii he mention the Name of God, with- out lifting up his Eyes, clapping hi? Hand on his breaft, orfome fignifi cation of Devotion ! This abfurc Fancy I have heard fome alledge ai aReafon why they would not lei their Children ask them Blefling /. €, defire them to pray to God fo them : And others have made thi the caufe why they would not teac! then the Friendly Dehate, hem their Catechifm, nor any ^rayers, left they fliould take Gods ?ame in vain ; that is, in their fenfe, lake mention of it, and not mind ,/hat they fay. j iV. C, I do not approve of fuch )pinions as thefe. I C. If you did, you w^ould con- emn your felf many hundred times laDay. For how oft do you tell s in common difcourfe, of ^^^ Peo- leofGod y and the things of God y nd tht Ordinance of God, not mind- ig that you mention his Name. Tay how many timxs have we heard pu fay in your Prayers, O ORD, O GOD (fomtimes nice in one fentence) when we ave great reafon to think you did 3t know whether you ufed it fo ofc rno. Now, which will you fay ? hat you finned in this^or that ; it fufficient to have an habitual Re- uTence toward Almighty God, and :2vertoufe hisName in an irreve- ::nt manner; though we do not al- ways adlually attend when we ufe it? I B 3 MCA 6 'A Continuation of i\Z'. C. I have not confidered this ; but was alway bred in this Belief,! that we break the Third Command- ment when we ufe Gods name in common talk; and that's theRea- fon I did not anfwer you after th ufual manner. C It's well if you be not monl careful to keep the Commandmen! in the Phrafe-fenfe^ than in its pro; per and Principal meaning. J\f. C. How now ? muft we h beholden to you to invent a neii word for us ? C, It cannot be new to you fun who are fo well verfed in a Divinit that confills;, in a manner, wholl of Phrafes ; and fetting them aCdi hath little or nothing in it, upo which account it may well be caller J^hrafe-Divinity. ' JSf. c. You will never leave yoi Pleafantnefs. Pray talk more gravv ly, and explain your felf. C. rietellyouthen what Imea There are many I obferve, who ha been very fcruoulous about tlj Thi I the Friendly Debate, n 'hird Commandmentv and careful Lcp it, as the words arc vulgarly i^Jinour language now a-daycs; ^ho have made no Confcience at ail fit, at leaft notorioufly broken it, ccording to the true import of the Vords among the Hebrevrs, Yov, 5I have been taught, when Mofes ndy Ihoufhalt not take the Name of he Lord thy God in vain, &c. His leaning was ; that no man fhould are to call God to witnefs to any ling he fpoke, and yet utter a falf- ood , or not do according to his romife. If he were fo prophane, ;e afTures him that God who was r/V^f-y^to what he faid, would alfo e his Judg, and by no means acquit im. Now^howoft you have broken he Commandment in this, which 5 the main fenfe ; while you have icen very ftridt to keep it in the o- her, I need not tell you. [ N' C. You muft tell me ; or elfe muft tell you that you are like the ^evilf a falfi accuftv of the Bre- In en. B 4 cYcur 8 A Contimation of C. Your Minifters can tell you a great deal better than I, who were wont to complain of this as one of the moft grievous fins of the times ; that fo many h^d forfrvorn themfelves hy breaking their Solemn League and Covenant, You covenanted, for in - ftance, to extirpate Herefy and Schifm ; and fuch great diligence was ufed in this point, that they grew fafter, and to a greater height than ever had been known among us. So Mr. Cafe tells the Farliament in his Thanksgiving-Sermon for the tak- ing of C/?^y?^r p. 25. And asks them hovp it comes topaf? that thefe abound * more than ever they did, and that un- der "their JSiofes ? There is fuch a nu- meroiis increafe ( faith he ) of Errors andUerefieSyXS Iblufh to repeat what fame have affirmed, namely, that there are no lefs than an hundred and four- fcore fever dl Herefies propagated and Jjrrcd in this Neighboring City, jind many of fuch a Nature, as that I may truly fayy in CA L VI N' S language, the Errors and innovations under which the Friendly Debate] g \xfhkh we groaned of late years ( He [means under the Bifliops ) were but \tollerabte iriflesy childr ens play y corn- fared with thefe damnable DotirineSf \DoBrines of Devils. Nor is he alone ^ in thefe complaints, but Mr. Ed- iwards "^ craves leave to be free with'Epifi.Ded. them, and to tell them that Sedtsff^ofee* had been growing ever fince the firffc^f *^i„ year or their litting ; and every year ^ part* increafed more and more. No foon- er had they put down the Common- Prayery but down went the Scrip- tures themfelves together vvkh it, which many among us (faith he) flight and blafpheme. The Images oFthe trinity, Chrift, Virgin ^^JVLary, and the Apojlles were ordered to be broken down ; and at the next ftroke there were thofe that over- threw the DoBrine of the Trinity, oppofed the Dlvinify of Chrift, (poke Evil of the Virgin ^lary , flighted all the Apuftles.The Parlia- ment caft out the Ceremonies in the SacramentSj, the Cr-c?f?and Kneeling ; and then the People in many places caft lo A Continuation of cafl: out the Sacraments themfelves ; Baptifm and the Lords Supper. The one took away Saints day es , and fomeof the other made nothing of the herds-day. The fuperfluous maintenance as he calls it, of Bi- fliops and Deans being cut off, im- mediately the neceflary fetled main- tenance of all Minifters was cryed down and denyed too. Nay the Bi- fhops and their Officers being gone, there were many that would have thrown away all Minifters after them. A great deal more you may find there to the fame purpofe if you have a mind ; but he feems to fum up all in this ; the Fourth Command- ment was taken away in the Bi/hops dayes (fo he is pleafed to calumniate them ) lut now we have all ten Com- mandments taken away at once hy the Jntinomians ; yea all Faith and the Gofpel denyed hy the Seekers. He would have inferted this claufe fure, if he durft ; the Third Commandment is now taken away hy the Parliament, For I pray you, my good Friend , what thf Friendly Debate] 1 1 what remembrance had they of the dreadful name of God, to whom they had lifted up their hands? What a trifle was that facrcd Oath now accounted ? Tihat water of life * which (as Mr. Cafe fancied"^) had* Sermons kept all the Nation from giving up the co^xnant, ' ghofiy wasdeaditlelf; and had not^' ^^" the leaft fpirit remaining in it, to quicken thefe Covenanters to ex- tirpate Hcrefies. Nor would all the expoftulations of their Mini- fters put any life into them: But as thefe complainers had violated o- ther obligations in taking that Cove- nant ; fo now their Mafters fet it at naught, and, to ferve the ends of State,continued to connive at thofe things which they promifed to root out. For a great while after this, I find no lefs than three of your Di- vines ( in their Epiftle to the Rea- der before Mr. Pooles book againft Eiddle ) renew their Complaints, that the whole body of Socinianifm which walkt only in the Darkf and in Latirje, in the Bif-ops time, was now tranjia- 12 A Continuation of ttanflated into Englijh, Many hold Fa5ioYS for thofc Blajfhemies which in thofe times durji not appear, dif- feminating now their Herefies without , feary both publickly and from houfe to houfei Which by the way may in- ftrudl you who are to be charged with a great part of the guilt and mifchief of fuch Books as the Sandy- Foundation ( /. e, the DoiSlrine of the Trinity ) Shaken, and feveral others lately publifhed. In fhort, this was a thing fo notorious, that Mr. Cafv moves the Parliament ( in that Thankfgiving Sermon/?. 50.) that there might be a folemn faft to hum- ble and afflicft their Souls for Cove- fjant'violationsy and wherein the Co- 'venant might he renewed in a more fo- lemn andferiou^ manner with God. N. c. Thefe were hot fpirits, and might be too forward to charge the Covenanters with taking Gods name in vain when they were not guilty of it. C. But you will not fay that the greateft part of the London-Mini- fers the Friendly Del/ ate. Ij JJers were rafli and heady. Now if jyou read their Seajonahh Exhort at i- \on to their rcfpedtive ParilTies, prin- ted 1660. you will find, they com- plain oithe Odious fcandals of thofe I that pYofefi themfehes the People of I God : particularly cf their [elf feeking wider pretence of the publick good ; and their unparalleled breach of all civil and f acred Oaths and Covenants both to God and Men. N. c. This 1 confefs is a fad fto- c. Confider then I befeech you ; if thefe Leaders and great Profef- fors were fo guilty, what fliall we think of the common People, who took the Covenant hand over head (as we fay) being totally ignorant of feveral things to which they fwore : nay were taught by Mr. Cafe (in his Sermons about the Cove- nant/?. 41.) to take it, though they did not under jland it ? N,C, I cannot believe you. j C- Go to the Book then and be- lieve your own Eyes, There you y " will 4 A ContimaUon of will find he alledges the Example of Jojjah for it, who renewed the Covenant when he was a Child ; and oi Nehemiah who made the Women and Children do the like. He was fenfible indeed, that there is a great difference between that which was Divine^ and this which was but the Devife of men ; and therefore would perfwade them that they were bound no further by this Oath, than they fliould fiijd the things contain- ed in it to be according to the Word of God. But it is plain, I fhew'd you the Inft time, the Parliament did not allow any Body to expound the Covenant but themfelves. And be- fide this, they fware without any li- mitation to preferve things as they flood in the Church of Scotland, where for any thing they knew, there might be as abfolute a Tyran- ny, as is exercifed under the Papa- cy. Nay, in Scotland it felf, there were fome who argued foftrongly clnf."'^'^' ^g^^^fl: the Covenant, that a Jolly man I have read of, was driven to fuch ^ the Friendly Debate. 1 5 fuch ftraits at laft^, as he had no- thing to fay but this, 7hat they muft deny Learning and Reafon, and helpChrift a Lift. If you will give ' me leave , Tie tell you fomething worfe than this. I N.c^ Hov^^ is it poflible ? I C. There were fome that in plain terms pleaded Religion for the breaking of the Covenant: So that ( contrary to Mr A^^'s Exhortation 1 told you of) with them ti^cjj^as Tea, and Nay. J. Lilhurn for in- ftance, in his Englands Birthright p. 29. faith, that the Covenant is im- poffihle to he kept, and that theFra-^^^^, mers and Makers of it have run into ^^^\i^ wilful perjury. Nay, he calls it; K^thecirv Make-bate, perfecuting, foul-defiroy'26y^, ' ingy England- dividing, and. undoing *^^ Covenant, With whom you may joyn Mr. J. Goodwin, who tells us ( in his 12. Cautions p, 4. ) that to violate an abominable and accurfed Oath (fpeaking with reference to this Covenant ) out of confcience to God, if an holy and a bleffed perjury, N.c, 1 5 A Contfnuation of N. C. Now I hope you have done. C. It ought not to be forgot, that this Covenant was contrary to your Solemn Protejiation, taken firft by both Houfes of Parliament, where- in they promifed to defend the true reformed Prate fiant Religion, expref- fed in the DoBrine of the Church of England. Did they not ? JSf.C. Yes. C. Why then did your Minifters perfv^ade them to enter into this J}lew Oath, which was fo contrary to fome Articles of our Churches Dodlrine? JSf, C, They explained themfelves as I remember, before they Gove- nanted,and told us what they meant by the Docftrine of the Church of England. ( . Very good. And was it not: finely done, that after the Mem- bers of both Houfes had taken the Proteflation, fo as I now faid, the Houfe of Commons alone fliould make a Declaration, that by thofe words [^the DoSirineofthe Church c) England; fhe Friendly Debate. 17 tngland] was intended only fo, nuch of it, as was oppolite to Po- pery and Popilh Innovation, and liould not be extended to the main- renance of the Difciplineand Go- vernment? And then that under rhis Explication publifhed only by ihi^Connnoiis and never aflented to ^ytheP^c-rx, this Proteftation was iinpofed on the Kingdom, and all :hat would not take it declared un- |fic to bear office in Church or Com- TJon wealth ? Whatis there to be hid, Ibefeechyou, toexcufe thefe 1-range proceedings. Firft, both iloufes fwear to plain words. Then ;neHoufe claps an interpretation )n them. And after that, they alone .0 far intrench upon the Peoples Liberties ( which they were bound •o maintain ) as to impofe this Protefi/ttion upon them without con- sent of Parliament: and that un- Jlcra heavy penalty on thofc that iilhould not comply with them. All llhis is no lefs than a Demonjiratior*,- )fi[nethinks, that too many of you (for C we 1 8 A Continuation of we will not condemn all ) have bcei too forward to take Gods name ii vain ; at leaft to in gage your felve in Oaths and Vows haltily and ra(h ly. And with all it fliews that yoi were of that impofing Spirit whici you now complain of; and that Re ligion was more pretended than tru Jy aim'd at : And, laftly, that yoi were fo vainly confident of your fa vour with God, that you could tak( hisname into your mouths backwarc and forward, and never blufli; fc you did but look demurely, and ex prefs much reverence to it in com mon talk. All which I proteft, ii fpoken to no other purpofe but tc humble you; andtofhew that you unjuftly ufurp the name of the mofi Religious People, the mofi confcienti- OHs, and the mofi fearful of offending God, that are in the Nation: and that you abufe the fimple,when yoi make them believe that you are the Pillars upon which the Kingdom; welfare ftands ; for whofe fake ai lone it is, that we were not madi lonf the Friendly Debate . \ p long ago like Sodom and Gomorrah, For itismanifcftyou have involv'd ^"he people in abundance of guilt ; and made Religion vile in their ecaufe you are plainly told oFyour Faults. This nettles and vexes you t the heart: only to hide and con- ceal your fecret anger ; you call it >y another name, and fay you arc iffcndcd. iV! (7. No they are not angry v^^ith hofe who give them a private re- roof, but to print a book againft hem, what can it intend, but mif- hief? r. Now I guefs at their meaning, 'heir Senfe is of the fame nature dth that which Mr. Edwards faith he Sectaries took at his Gan^rdtna^ Becaufc it hinders their making Pro * second hlytes, and fo far want of growing t4p ^^^ P* ^^^' r> fach a number as they deftgn and \opefor, they may mif^cfa Toleration, \ndfo in the iffue a Domination )Which \fo much fought for by them, C 3 NX. 2 2 ^ ContimaHon of N.c* They mean the fame that that the Apoftle doth, who requires us to give no offence neither to the Jews, nor to the Greeks^ nor to the Church of God, iCor. 10.32. C. By your favour Sir , Saint J?4ul and you have not the fame meaning: as you might have learnt long ago (ijTyou did not converfe more with your frivolous writcrSj than thofc who have fome {enfe in them ) from your great Champion Mr. Cartwright. He tells you ex- prefly that by offence the Apoftic doth not intend, that which difplea- fey, or di f contents, but that whercbj occafion is given to any of tranf greffing againft the Laws of God, For he is treating of eating things offered to Idols even in the Temple; of Idols, or in the prefence of fucli as were indangered therel;)y : The Gentiles being hardned in their Ido latry, the Jews provoked againfl Ghriftianity, and fome Chriftiani drawn by fuch examples to follovi them doubtingly. Take now th<| ^ ' Wore the Friendly Del? ate . 2 3 Word in this proper fenfe, and I . /liall be cleared from this imputati- on; and you your felves condemned for looking no better to your Ret, that they go not awry. JSf.c. Howfo? c. It is the very defign of vphofe unhallowed Tongues [fet on fire from hell) fpare not toflafh mt their infolent reproaches and impi- ous execrations againji his Fathers Sepulchre, and his own throne* But ponfider that in thofe dai* it was .:heir concernment to have defpifers wd revilers puniflit ; Now they "erve the Caufe , and help to dif- jrace the prefent eftablifliment : iyhich is the reafon, 1 fuppofe, that D all 54 ^ Contimation of all the Churches are fo unite in this matter. 2V\ c. You take the Liberty to fay what you lift ; but let me fay little or nothing : And when you have done, you write a Dialogue be- tween Tour felf and a Non-conformift ; in which you make him fpeak juft what you think good and na more. Is this fair dealing? C. Where did you get the fole priviledge of writing Dialogues? You imagine:, perhaps, we have forgot thofe that you entertain'd the people withal fome years ago; but our memories are not yet fo flip j pery. I call to mind, for inftance the Dialogue between a Countrey\ Gentleman and a minifler of the Woul about the Common-Prayer, anfwer ed by Authority 1641. And anc thcrhctmccn a Loyalijif and aRoyJ Itfty about our Civil Liberties> at\ 1644. Thefirftof thefelcanfcarcj forget, if 1 would ; the Author ci| it ( Mr. Lerves Hughes ) impartinj to mc; fuch an extraordinary piec the Friendly Deflate. jj f Learning as this, that Kyrieleefon ; a word compounded of Hebrew nd Greek, fignifying in Englijh, .ord have mercy upon us. He fur- i(ht me alfo with a memorable rea- )n, why the Mafi-Book leaves out le Doxology at the end of the Lords ^rayer; becaufe the Pope faies he, ill have none of his Church 9 neither Wiefl nor People f to give fo much ho- our and glory to G^, Which he as fo well conceited of^ that he ^peates it twice within thecom- iCs of a few leaves. This good lan , I fometimes fancy , would ive been a chofen inftrument, and one marvelous well, to write a RA- lONALEof theD/V^Sor)'.In which h might have told us, that R A- j 1 N A L E was a word com- ^Dunded of Latin and Engli/h, fig- nifying, AllReafon. And inform'd ^y in particular, that the caufe Khy the Aflembly left it to mens liberty, to leave out the whole Jords Prayer if they pleafed, was t\\y thiS; that all their Church might l\ D 2 gii'^ 5 '5 ^ Continuation of give all honour and glory to Jefm Chrifl. So I fuppofe his JjfeHion would have made him fay ; though if he had followed his Reafon it would have led him to this; that oi the Pope left outfomeofithecaufe he would not do our Saviour fo much hi' ttour : fo they permitted men to leave out all, that every man might do hin> Of little honour as he plea fed. j N, c. You ^annot for your Iif1 forbear to lead me now and then : t( fome mirth. C. I intended only to reprefen how your Minifters fometime abuf themfelves,more than any of us eve did. As for my felf:, lam not coi fcious of the leaftabufe I have pi upon you ; nor that I hai made you fay any thing but wh your people are wont to talk. Ce| f tain 1 am that all the wit your Pan hath, {hall never be able to find ai fuch Abfurdity in my Book, as thi ' Dialogue againft the Common-PrM ^ er is guilty of; where the Minifi makes the Gentleman prcfently cc fi the Friendly Debate] 37 sfs it to be full of Fopijh Errors ; ^nd to appoint horrible BLjphemies, ,nd l)ing Fables to be read to the ?cople. Nay, makes him cry our, ilmoft as foon as they had begun * heir Difcourfe. O horrible ! Horv }ave the Bifhops deluded King Ed- yard the Sixth, ^ueen Elizabeth , Xiw^ James, and our gracious King ^harles, and the whole State ; and nade them believe there was nothing in the Service-Book that is amifi, or itny way contrary to the Word? God Almighty deliver us from them. I iliould blufli to the end of my life, (f after our whole debate I had con- cluded^ as this man begun. But phis is the way of thofe Sots that plk as if they were infallible, and iwould bear all before them by their |bare word ; nay, take it very ill if you be not converted, as foon as ^they open their mouth. Pythago- ras is revived in fome of you ; and "PAt^fucha one [aid it, is of as good .Authority, as the belt proof in the tworld. D 3 N,r^ 33 '^ Contimation of ^.C. This was fome ignorant Zealot, I believe. C. So one would think ; and yet he had (o good an opinion of him- felf, that he thought luch Works as thefe fit for the eyes of the High- Court of Parliament. To whom I find he prefented Certain Grievances an. 1640. of the very fame import with this goodly Dialogue, but fo abfurdly flanderous, that you can- not but be aftonifli't at his brutiih ftupidity. For there he tells them (as he doth the Gentleman at the conclufion of their Conference ) that the Bifhops have appointed' fome portions of Scripture to be read on certain dayes and omitted others , on purpo/e to pervert the meaning of Chrifi, and to keep weak Chri/iians in hlindnep. The whole Book of Canticles for inftance, is never appointed to be read ; that the People, ( as he will have it ) may not he ahle to fee the ardent Love and ajfeBion of Chrifi toward his Spoufe, the Ele£i : and they l( the Friendly Debate. 59 icy thereby he fiirred up to love hrifi, and he truly zealous for his ]lory. Nay, if you believe him,the looks of the Kings, ( all favc the firft chapters ) and the Chronicles * ere forbid, becaufe they jhew that 'odly Kings did ever love Gods true Wophets, and did hearken to them, nd were zealom of maintaining true .eligion, and fuppr effing Idolatry. In hich words he difcovered the very round of their quarrel with the '.ing^viz. that he did not take fuch reat Seers as himfelf into his bo- )me; and fuffer then[i to guide his lonfcience, as if they were of the 'rivy-Council of Heaven- But he [fcovered withal how little efteem *, for his part, merited: Or ra- ler how well he deferved to be ftig- iatiz*d and branded in the fore- sad, as one, ( tofpeak in his own .nguage ) that vpas a falfe-Prophet, Wophefying lyes. For was there ^er any man before this fo impu- :nt, as to put a Libel of this Na- ire againft his fpiritual Fathers D 4 and 40 A Continuation of M and Governors,into the hands of tht^ Higheft Court of the Kingdom ?y Did any of the Priefis or Prophets of Baal think you, ever help themfelves and their caufe by fuch invedlives againft the Prophets of the Lord? For my part, I am of the mind, that the Devil himfclf would be hard put to't, to invent more bold and mali- cious Slanders than thefe of this mans forging ; w^ho wants nothing but jrit to make him like that Father cf Lyes, And yet, I fuppofe, he pafled for a Godly man, a precious Servant of Jefus Chrifl^ a Faithful Minifter of the Lord : Nay, was che- rifhed and incouraged as one of Gods Prophets ; who had told them things that could be known no wayes, but by a Revelation. His Book alfo, no doubt, found won- derful acceptance, though it was ftuft with fo much Ignorance and railing. The people read it with a blind Devotion, juft as he was tranf- ported with fo blind a Paflion, as ^0 accufe our Church of that, which all I the Friendly Debate] 4 1' 11 that had eyes muft needs acquit t of. Bor both the Books of the Gngs were Appointed to be read itircly in the later end of l/pril, nd in May. As for the Chromcles, « hey being little more than aRepe- ition of what was writ before, light well be left to our private leading ; together with fome other Jooks, not eafy to be underftood i^ithout great Labour and long Me- itation. N.c, I wifli you would difmifs his man, for he hath given us both |00 much trouble. C. Your people would not, when ime was, fo eafily lay his Book out f their hands, as I am able to prove. [Jutlet^o; together with all the rew of Revilers that were before lim. For you muft know there i^ere Dialo^ue-vrriters of the fame Jtamp in the dayes of your Fore-fa- Ihers. In one of which Books, cal- led the Dialogue of white Devils, the Author exprefly tells Js, that if Ttnces hinder the bringing in of their. Difci' 42 A Comimation of Difcipline, they are Tyrants ; and may be depofed by their Subje£if. A Do- (Slrine which with all your reading in the Books of the Kings and the Chronicles you will no where find juftified For the people were bet- ter taught than to go about to de- pofe thofe that did not favour the Lords Prophets. I know you all difclaim this principle ; and I verily believe many of you abhor it : but I n:iention it to let you fee what the Maximes of fome of your Predecef- fors, imboldned fome of their Po- fterityto do. For this purpofe I could relate ftrange palTages out of fome Books efteemed by your Par- ty ; which would verify the cenfure of the Bifliop of Down and Conner * In his vi*-^ upon the Title of the Dialogue %Sac now named. Which he faith was i65T^pS v^ry fi^ f^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ Books ; for if Hfh'dby ^r^^y there were White Devils,or De- rvils transformed into Angels of Lights it is in their perfons who under the , pretence of^ndliiy^ l4hour to bring in all manner of Diford^r into the Church, the Friendly Debate] 43 Church, and confufioti into the Com- mon-wealth. But you have no mind we Ihould remember any thing that is paft ; that fo you may the more confidently fill the world with loud ' clamours, as if there never were fuch doings, as now. Elfe you might know there was another Dia- logue in Queen Elizabeths dayes, between Diotrephes and S. F^iul , in which the Difcipline and its Fa- vourers are magnified as Jpoflolical: hut the Bifliops of the Church of [England made no better than fo ma- i\y proud Diotrephes's ; nay fo ma- ny Devils ; and he of Canterbury !( fo they fpeak ) is Beelzebub, even Ithe Prince of the Devils. I ^,c. Still you will have all the talk to yourfelf, and I muft hold my tongue. Pray give me leave to inlarge my felf a while , for I am blam'd, 1 aflure you, very much for faying fo little in our laft Con- ference. C. Speak your mind. K.C. I '44 -^ Contimmon of K. C 1 muft ingenuoufly coafefs that we cannot accufe you of fuch fpeeches as thefe ; but yet you fhew your great malignity to us other- ways. In particular it is very ill taken, that you make our Minifters guilty of breaking the O^cford JSi, and the ^yiB of uniformity. For you make as if they were obliged to keep within that diftance from this place which the Law prefcribes, if they have not taken the Oath : And if they have ; yet not to hold Aflem- blies (without Common Prayer) ef- pecially in time of your Service. Now it is plain to us, that they are not obliged to keep thefe Laws, fo as you would have them. Mark what I fay; they do not refufeto obey them ; only they cannot do ic in your manner. There are tw waies I have heard them fay fome times, of obeying Laws ; eithe doin^ what they Command, or by fujferitig what they inflidt. Now our Minifters are content to indure the penalties ; chafing to fatisfis the twa me-i rbyj the Friendly Debate . a j the Laws that way, which ismoft convenient for themfelves. C. Have you done? N.C. Yes. C, Then give me leave to tell yoU;» I do not believe they are fo well contented as you pretend. But if they be ; they are no better obfer- vers of Laws than a Thief, who is content to be hang'd after he hath rob'd his neighbours. I doubt they are contented both alike , /. e. they hope to efcape without punifliment; and when they are laid hold on, they fubmit becaufe they cannot help it. But when that's done, they are ftill both alike under fin ; becaufe it is not the thiefs hanging , and 1 your fine and imprifonment , which \ the Prince intends ; but the doing I that which he commands. If this i be negle(fled, or you do contrary to i his Laws ; you offend God as well t as your Prince, and are liable to be puniflitbyboth. N. C There is a wide difference in thefe things. For God you know re- ■^5 A Contimation of requires we fhould not fteal ; but he doth not lay fuch Comn:iands on us, as your Laws. C, He requires you to obey the Magiftrate; which your Apology plainly confefles , while you fup- pofe he is fufficiently obeyed if you fufFer the penalties of his Laws. Which I muft tell you, is a ridicu- lous fancie; and makes the Magi- ftrate a moft barbarous Tyrant ; who is as well pleafed^ or takes himfelf to be as well obeyed , if his fubjedls be hang'i or broken on the Wheel after they have done a world of Mifchief ; as if they had been honeft and peaceable Members of theCommonwealth. Away with thefe abfurd do5lrines : which fuppofe all Governours to punilh the innocent; and all Subjedls to obey meerly for vrrath and not for Confcience fake^ You had beft go and correcfl St. Paul: 01 elfe corredlyour felves ; believing that you are guilty of a fin when you do not the things which a Law , not contrary to God's, re- quires. the Friendly Del? ate. 47 quires, or elfe the Magiftrate could have no right to punifli you: and that your Puniftiment alfo is not to free you from the guilt of the Firfi * Fault ; but to prevent a Second. ' JSr.C, But this is not all they have tor fay for themfelves. They are men of a tender confcience, what- pver you think ; and have a great regard to the commands of their Governors ; nay think they ought ;o be obeyed for confcience fake C To what purpofe then do they ife the former fliift ? i\r. C. Pray let me go on. They onfefs I fay that Laws fhould be cept ; and yet they are well aflfured hey commit no fin, in not keeping hofe you fpeak of C. They are wonderful men. N.C, For they are very confi- lent it is his Majefties pleafure that hey ftiould take this liberty againft he Laws. C. Good Sir, take heed what you ay. How come you to know his Ma- A Continuation of Majefties Pleafure ? where did he whifper it fo foftly, that none could hear it but your fel ves ? J\f. C, I was going to tell you, if you would but be patient. Wc hold that fince his Laws are not ex- ecuted; it fignifies his pleafure to allow us this Liberty; and we e- fteem it a fufficient warrant for our prefent pradlice : Nay, a tacit De- claration that he doth not defire tjie Laws fhould be obeyed. And upon this account you are juftly blamed^ who being but a private man have exprelled greater feverity againft them than the ^J^agiftrate himfelf: for you have charged them with the guilt of Sin, when the Magiftrate doth not fo much as puniflithem. Do you not think the King can dif- penfewith us? and doth he not in effedl give us a difpenfation when his Laws are not executed ? Why do you then difallow , what he ap- proves of? May not his Majefty do what he thinks good ? -*— c. 11 the Friendly Debate. 49 C. lundcrftand you well enough; and therefore thefc Repetitions ftte ncedlefs. But 1 would fain know what warrant they had when they » firft ventur d to acftcontraiy to thofe Laws. What alTurance had they, that it might be done without dan- ger to themfelves, or dillike to their Prince ? i N.C. Indeed,! did not think of that. C. If you cannot fatisfie that Queftion , you muft acknowledge you have but fpun a Cobweb in ma- king this Kxcufe. And confefs in plain terms that when they broke the Ice, and firft took this Eold- nefs, they were Sinners : and now they make one fin the Juftification bf another. N, C. How To. C, They firft tried whether my notice would be taken of heir abiding here, and of their clo- Ter meetings contrary to Law : and [A^hen they found there was none ; :hen they ventured further , and i)pened their doors more confident- E ly ^ o ^ Continuation of ly for all comers : and ftill there be- ing no notice taken of this licenfe they gave themfelves; now they make it an argument to juftifie what they do, and would perfwade us it is as good, as if they had a li- cenfe from others for thefe unlaw- ful pradlices. So I call them : for you muft know further , that the Non-execution of the haws , is no proof of his Majeftie's pleafure they fliould notbe obferved. For it may be imputed to the negligence; of his Officers and Minifters in the difcharge of their Duty. But ifl to ferve your turn, you will fay it vs an argument of hU will and not ofl their negledl ; you muft unavoid ably ferve fome bodies turn befidesj; your own. In plain Englifh yom muft dffirm it is his pleafure thati the <^a{i fhould be faid , and the Papifts fhould take the fame libertyj| and opennefs in the exercife of the Religion , that you do in your Nay , 1 do not fee why all Drun kards, Swearers, and Blafphemers may (he triendly Debate, may not think themfelves allowed in their Crinnes ; becaufc little or no notice is taken of any of them. To which I may add, that feveral perfons who think the non-Execu- tion of Laws is a warrant to you ; yet find very much fault with your meetings in the time of ourpublick Allemblies : Which is void of all fenfe if your Reafon be good; for there is no more notice taken of that, than of your meeting at other times. And yet it is demonftrable ^thatthe not puniflnn^ your meeting in time of Divine Service doth not ignifie his Majeftie's pleafure to illow it ; and confequcntly ^(?«r not ^eing punijhedy. can never fignifie his )leafure to indulge you in other natters. For if from thence you an gather that he approves of what ou do, then fo may rre if we lift to o the fame : And upon that ground )ay meet in little companies where e pleafe, and leave our Churches ite empty. A thing, without all ubt , which his Majcfty abhors to E 2 think ^2 A Continuation of think of. You your felves have de- clared in times paft:, that it U abfurd to think y that Laws nay Ordinances of Parliament {even in matters of Re- ligion) fhould not equally oblige all the fuhje^ts of one Kingdom, If there- fore the Laws oblige u^ y then they obWgc you : If they do not oblige you, then they oblige not us neither We are all alike either bound o free. But to leave all thefe Confidera- tions; there isfomething more re- markable me thinks in this cafe^that deferves to be remembred above any thing elfe. And truly I cannot but fmile fometimes ■ N. C. Why what ij the matter ? CI I was going to fay ( but the very thought of your odd humor hindred me a little) that I cannot but fmile to my felf when I call to mind, how you ihift your Principles & change your Maximes, according to your Intereft. There is no Wea thercock more guided by the wine then You are by this. For it was i Funda e I the F'riendly Debate. yj Fundamental (iMaxime, heretofore, I well, remember, nnd obftinately maintained among your party, who now fawn and flatter ; That the Law is the Kings Superior : and that he hath not fo much povrer over it ai to he its Supream Interpreter : That his Oath tyes him exprefly to ohferve it ; and hinds him to fee it executed. Up- on which fcore all the Kingdom was filled with loud complaints about the JSion- execution of Lj' .. .:*:d of the Indulgences granted to feveral perfons who offended again ft them. ^'For execution, they faid, was the Life of the Law , without which it became vain and ufelefi. This was the bold Dodlrine currant not many years ago, and he was held for a Malig- nant that did not believe it.But now on afudden we hear you finganew 1 Song in praife of his Majeliies (^r^c/- ous Indulgence ( for fo you will call jit) and withall you earneftly defiie the Execution of Laws may ftill be fufpended ; that is , lye dead and i become vain and ufelef?. For which I E 3 ake- ^A A Cominmion of alteration, I can find no reafon but this; that now the Indulgence is to your felvcs and then it was to other folk. Then alfo you thought your felves able to make the King bow to you; and now your VVeaknefs for- ces You to worfhip him. iV. C. Where do you find any fuch Maximes ? For my part I have forgot them. C. I can fend you to feveral Books where you may refrelh your memo- ry : particularly to the ^jMedicine for ^Ulignants ; which tells you p. 25. that the King hath not power over the Law , hut the Law over the King. But for your greater eafe, I will only refer you to one fmali Pamphlet called Known Laws : in which you fhall not fail to meet with more than 1 have faid. N.C. Thefe, I believe, were the Maximes of the State faction, C, I know no difJerence between Them and your Divines in this mat- ter. 1 am fure Mr. Will, Bridges (who dififers from Mr. Will, Bridge as (he Friendly Del? ate , y 5 as little as their Names do) makes none at all. In whom 1 find a paflage fo diredlly oppolite to your prefent Opinions about the obligation of the Oxford' J6ly and declaring fo fully the fenfc of your Divines about the Kings Power, thatlmuft crave leave to mention it. N.c. I am content to hear it. But you muft remember that thefe were but the Opinions of private perfons. c. You are miftaken. This man made an Anfwer (puhlifl^ed by An- thority 1644.) to a Book called the Loyal Convert y in which he tells the converted Gentleman, that hejpeaks illej^ally if he fay the King can proteSi a Papift any way. His Reafon is Univerfal, though his Inftance be Particular ; for whom the Law Pro- 'edls not, the King either cannot or mght not toprote5i. No, he ought lot, as he tells us, fo much as to require the help of fuch perfons to 3rotedl him. For they ought only i^^ he tributaries^ J and to hold themfelves to E 4 their 55 A Continuation of their U B I, to their place. Which words I would have you apply to that bufinefs which begat this Dif- courfe. I would fain know of your Divines how his Majerties Power comes to be fo variable at their plea- fure ? Whence is it that He can difpenfe with your Refulertce in the UBI or place to which you are by the Law confined, who would not difpenfe at all with others, nor re- leafe them ( no not for his neceflary affiftance ) from that place to which according to your Docflrine they were immoveably chained. The Law protedl:s both alike ; that is, not at all: what is the caufethen that he can give you Protedtion , not- withftanding the Law; and not them ? Millake me not ; it is the fartheft thing from my thoughts to call in queftion the extent of his Majefties Supream Power. I only queftion your Principlesy who pre- tend to be no Changelifigs. Anfwer me this. If the King have a Power to give an Indulgence and difpenfe with the Friendly Debate. 5-7 with the Law, why did you fo rude- ly and barbaroully clamour againlt him heretofore, and fay the contra- ry ? If he hiive not, why do you every ^ where feek to juftifie your felvesin your illegal Pradlices, with a meer (haddow & fancy of his Indulgence ? A^. C, There is a great diftance 3f time between the one and the 3ther: and they have changed their minds upon fecond thoughts. C.Very likely. And you believe alfo, that liPreshitery were in its height & Glory^his Majefty might difpence .vich theLz/rr/ of their making,as well is with his own : Do you not I* Alas good man ! you fhould find, I doubt, Co your coft, if things were come to that pafs ; that no Authority could remit the Rigour of them. For they lavc condemned all Difpenfations ind Licenfes,as Antichriftian.Their Decrees are fo facred, that as there lyes no appeal from their Courts, fo none may take Authority to re- laxate their Laws. For they take f themfelves to fit in. Ghrifts Tribunal Seat; I •yg A Continuation of Seat ; and fo their Laws are no more to be difpenfed with than his. Bnt why do I infift fo long upon one thing, fince there arefo many inftances of your windings and turnings as your Intereft leads you ? There was a time I remember, when the Parliament was magnified as i the only keepers of the Peoples Li- I2^1nut ^^rties. We were told ^ that we tor on his . . Majefties mt2ht fiot fo much 04 tmaawe the Anlwers rr r i i y • • • / 1642. tioujes could be wjurtous; or that a Committee fhould have any private ends to miflead them. And there- fore they could not fit too long, nor prove a burden to the good peo- ple. But now you are quite in an- other ftrain. There is no greater grievance than a Parliament. No more intoUerable mifchiefthan their long Continuance. For which dif- ferent judgment there is no reafon, that I can fee, but this ; that then the Parliament was for you, and now it is againft you. The time was alfo, as I told you before, when the the Friendly Debate. 5 9 'ho. Commons 2Aonc might impofe a Proteftation on all the Subjei5ls^ un- kr the Pain of being incapable of iny Office, if they refufed it. But ^ low you will be free from all impofi- ion of this Nature : And an Oath :njoyn'd by the King and both the 3oufes, under no feverer penalty han a fmall Reftraint, is look't up- )n as a grievous Oppreflion. There re thofe likcwife that can remem- ►er when the Commons alone put •ut another Order about fomc of he affairs of Religion : But now a .aw enadled by the Kings Autho- Lty, is thought an high invafionof 'hrifts Prerogative; and he muft ot meddle in matters of his Wor- lip. The reafon is ; any thing nay be done by any Body to advance our fancies, but nothing againfl: lem by no creature in the World. (ay, we have not forgotten the ime when Mr. Cafe ufed this Argu- Jient among others to perfwade the 3eople to take the Covenant, ^ ^^'Ih^^T^ 'ufe Jntichrifi and hif faBion had co\enln:, pYojperd^'^'^ 6o A Continuation of projperdfo much by entring into Co- venants ; therefore the People of God Jhould try what this way wili do, which hath heen fo advantageous to the ene- my. For God, faid he, may make ufe of that Stratagem to ruin their Kingdom, which they ufed to build it. But now if any of us fay, that the fame Perfons have maintain'd a great reverence in the people to their Religion, by many Stately Ceremonies, fplendid Veftures, and Pompous Rites, and therefore we may hope to keep the Ordinances of God from contempt by a few folemn and grave Ceremonies, by decent habits, andfuch rites and geftures as may befeem the dignity of our Religion; prefently you raife an out-cry againft us, and the People are told, that we are Popi/hly affeB- edy of an Antichriftian fpirit, and imitate Idolaters. For which I can affign no caufe but this ; that then the Argument was foi you ; and now it makes for us. And you are refol- ded to ferve your felves by all means thougl" the Friendly Debate] 6 1 hough it be by approving and anon cjecfl:ing the very fame things. IFa thing like you well, it fhall TO very hard but you will findfome Scripture for it. ^nd if none fpeak plainly, you will torture and draw fome or other to be on your fide, ind labour to prove that they figni- le according to your meaning. But ifa thing diflike you, then you ask for plain Scripture. Nothing will fatisfie, unlefs we fliew it you in icxprefs terms. It is Superfiition ^ Will-vporjhipy any thing, but good, unlefs we produce a text in fomany words to confirm it. Of the fame gifting humour was the late Amy, las appears by their unparailel'd [Story, which in brief is this. On the 20. oi April \6$y they turn'd ■Majlersy whom they had long fer- ved, out of doors, as a company of Self-Seekers, who minded their own private, more than the puhlick Good, i^out fix years after, finding tht good Spirit declining, which formerly 1 appeared among them, in carrying on the S2 -A Contimatim of the great work (thofe are their Cant- ing expreflions ) and the good old Caufeitfe If become a reproach: they were led to look back and examine the caufe of the Lords withdrawing his wonted prefencefrom them, ^nd among other things they remem- bred what Injuries they had done to the remnant of the longParliament, and that they were eminent ^[fertors of that Caufcy and had a Jpecial pre- fence of God with them, and were fig- nalJy hie/fed in that Work. Jnd there- fore invited them by their Declara- tion o£May 6. 16^9 (in which you may find thefe things,) to come and fit again ; promifwg to yield their ut» inofl j4IJiflancefor their fitting in fafe- ty. Would you not imagine now that they would forever reverence thefe Eminent y thefe Blejfed men ? and that to oppofe them in their great work, would be, in their opi- nion, to fight againji God, to drive away the good Spirit, and to endeavour to deftroy the Caufe of God ? -^nd yet it was not long before they were of the Friendly Debate. 6^ of another mind. They held them- felves, for all this, tobc the greater Saints ; the Army of the living God ; and fo immutably fetled in his fa- vour that they fhould not lofe it, do ^ they what they would, -rfnd there- fore as foon as ever the Parliament refufed to adl according to their mind, they refufed to yield their obedience. When they voted fome of their Commiffions void, and re- folved to govern the Army by Com- miflionersin ftead of a Lieutenant General ; thefc late Penitents could fee nothing of God any longer a- mong them : The fpecial Prefencc oFGod vaniflied, and in a moment difappeared. So that on the ijth. of the next Oiiober, they lockt up the doors of the Houfe, fet them- felves once more above their Ma- tters; and in an infolent manner ieclared "^ all their Orders, J6is ,^ved,\ra, 'pretended J5is, or Declarations (and ^/u^g!' ill proceedings thereupon had or done ) ^Jl^^^^j^^ 7/1 Munday ^^^ lO. of that Month, \tnd on Tuefday, and Wedncfday i following, 6^ A Contimatim of follovping, null and void to all intents andpuTpofeSy in as full and ample a manner as if they had been never done. And immediately after they packt the Men away after thefe Adls and Orders. Nay, this they did, not^ withftanding that they had ftilec themfeives feveral times, but five Humble dayes before this to. ofOBohr, Tout anTpe?"J* fatthful Scrvunts the Army ; and pro« oaob.5. fefJ^J that having diligently inquires into their hearts and wayesj they found nothing among them but faithfulnefi and integrity to the Parliament ; con^ eluding their addrefs in this mannei that notwithjianding all endeavours ti the contrary, they would 9 hy the help of Gody he found faithful to themi Were not thefe gallant fellows i Wonderful confiant to their Princi- ples and Profeflions? ^JUightilj overawed hy the pre fence of God ; Sin* gle-hearted, and faithful to theil word r* Yes, by all means , yotii mull needs fay ; for of fuch as thefe a great part of the Churches of the Saints is now compofed. And faith- ful the Friendly Debate. 6 ^ ful they were to themfelves ; and that was enough. Conftant to this prin- \ ciple, that they were alway in the right; and what would you have more? They could Catit ftill in Scripture language, and therefore God was not withdrawn from then). They could fall and pray ftill, and had a power to turn even the Lords- day, into a day of Humiliation ; and therefore the Good Spirit had not forfaken them. They hated Jnti- chrifl, that is us ; and were refolved to burn the flefh of the Whore with , fire, and fo ftill remained the ^rmy of the Lord ofhofls. For as if they had ; fome fuch work in hand as the Apo- ftles had, they call upon all the God- ly in the nation to fay on their he- h3.\f, who are fufficient for thefe things^ and to cry aloud for them before the Throne of Grace, that the Lord him- felf would appear, and carry on hU work in their hand. And great reafon there was to expedt it ; fince they had once more injur'd thofe, who aflerted his i caufe ; and done that very thing, for F which 66 A Continuation of which ( as they faid, ) he had before withdrawn his wonted prefence from them. O the Impudent foreheads of thefe Men ! O the Sotajhrjefi of the People, that will be ftill cofened by fuch like Canters ! Will you never open your eyes and fee how vain their pretences to the Spirit are ? Will you never be convinc'd of their pre- fumptuous Boaftings , and empty Confidence ? Will you ftill believe that thefe men are highly illumina- ted, who call that darknefs, which a little while ago was light ; and then crofs themfelves again, and fay no ; it is but Darknefs ? Are thefe the men whom we muft all follow ; who run, we fee, in an endlefs round of contradi(5ling their own Profcflions ? or muft we fliut our eyes, and give them our hand that they may lead us whither they pleafe ? Muft we for- get all that is paft, and believe they are now pofTeft with an infaHihle Spi- fit ? This is the thing no doubt, they defire. We muft refign our belief to their Declarations. We muft al- low i the Friendly Debate. 67 3W all their Reafons and Excufcs, ^hatfoevcr they be. We mufl:, at sail, furter them to juftifie them- slves by thofe very things which ^ hey formerly^ condemn'd ; and fay ere a word. And then we love them; hen we favour the people of God ; hen they have fome hopes of us; and t's poflible God may have mercy on :s, though we be out of the way and iO not follow them. I know you will fay, that fuch as OM, are none of the jirmy- Saint s : ;hat you condemn theirPra(fl:ices,and I ate their leud pretences to Religion s a great fcandal to it: All which I erily believe* But;, let me tell yo'j, jhe Army had a copy fet them of un- jonftancy and double dealing by ihofe whom you admired. For there vas a time when the Lords and Com- nons could fee fome good in the L/- ur^y and Government of the Church ;)y Law eftabliflied. Nay more than hat; they made a Declaration "^ ,'^Ap«-ji. 9. aufed it to be printed and publiflied In all Market Towns,^ That they vrouU F 2 tak^ I ^2 A Continuation of take away nothing in the one or the o ther, hut what fhould he evil andjufilj offenjive, or at leajl unnecejfary am burdenfome. And yet when they hac more power, they were of anothe: mind. Every thing was offenfive at leaft unneceflary and burdenfome nothing would ferve but taking awaj all the CommonPrayer ; and plucking up Epifcopacy by the very roots. The reafon, I fuppofe> was, becaufe thi. became as neceflary to promote thel Defigns in procefs of time ; as thai Declaration was at the beginning If they had refted there, and gone n( farther , they had loft the hearts o the moft fpiritual ; who would neve Beam of ^'^^^ ^^^^ f^^^ ^ gloriow annotnting up i-'shtby on them from the Lord, as now ap peared. Now the wcry fifth kingdon men, could not but fee it , and ac knowledge it in Print : though i was not long before they alfo chang' like all the reft; and had loft th( fight of this glory, being able to fpj no UnBion any where upon them fclyes. For they helpt to profan( • th< .the Friendly Debate. 6g le Crown of thefe annointcd ones, id caft out the greateftpart of them, 5 if they were but fcum and filth. ;ut I think its belt to trace your win- * ings and turnings no further; for ^ar they lead us too far out of the 'ay. A^. C. A good Refolution. Too \uch of one thing you know is good for bthing. C. True. And I think the firft ingi faid about your pretences of a [icit Indulgence , is fufficient to ew, that you are perfecflly like men i| danger of drowning, who catch bid indifferently of what comes itxttohand; be it a naked Sword or 'i[ hot Iron. \' N,C. Pray make an end of this : fr you have quite tired me with ^ur Difcourfe. In which you have 'Itgely proved the truth of the corn- ton talk , that you are of a harfh, m a bitter and jeering Spirit, and was fSJacholerick mood when you wrote '^ur Book. ^^ * C Rather, they that fay fo, prove F 3 what 70 A Comnuatkm of what 1 have been faying all this time that they blow hot and cold out ot* the fame mouth ; and condemn that in others which they ailow^ nay, praife in themfehes. For you (hall hear them call that Salt and Smarr- nefs of wit in one whom they lore ; which is Bitternefs and jeering in him whom they hate. And that paflcs for innocent Mirth and Pleafantnefs in one of their party ; which is Levi- ty and Frothinefs in one of ours.Nay, it is Zeal for God and his caufe if you aggravate the faults of other men, or ra(hly charge and bring evenafalfc Accufation againft your Betters : bul it is malignity of Spirit , hatred d God and the power of Godlinefs, we do but tell a plain and true ftori of your mifcarriages. No man eve pppofed you refolutely, but you fai< he raild. No man difcovered you Partiality and other vices ; but yo complained of his Bitternefs, an faid he was in a rage againft you by this you meant nothing elfe, bi that 1 write with fome heat and can eftnd the Friendly Debate, n\ cftnefs, I would confcfs it, ^nd fay it is not to be condemn'd. For who can contend coldly and without affccTti- on abjuc thofc things , which he holds dear and precious r* A Politick pcrfon indeed may write from his brain (as my hord Bacon I think ob- ferves ) without any touch or fenfe on his heart ; as in a fpeculation that pertains not to him: But a Feeling Chriftian will exprefs in his words a Chara(5ter , either of Zeal or Love ; which you know are warm PafKons. For my p:::r. I think I haveexpref- fed both, but nothing at all of wrath and bitternefs. And therefore :, as to that cenfure which your Friends pafs on me, 1 believe he will fpeak a I great deal truer , that affirms the ! Authors of it were full of choller , themfelves. Otherwaies,they could inot but have difcern'd a charitable fpirit in my writing , and eafily feen, that the Indignation I exprefled a- gainft fome vices, is fuch as confift with Chriftian Meeknefs , and ought not to be condemned as an unmanly F 4 Paf. A Continuation of Paflion. Do you not find that iWb- fes was very wroth , when Ifrael com- mitted a great fin ? and yet his Meek- nefs is commended above all other mens. And what think you of St. p4ul when he calls the Galatians a foolijh fort of people : and plainly tells the Corinthians that he could as well ufe a Rod , as the Spirit of Meeknefs : and bids Tttm , whom a little before he warned againft rafii anger, to rebuke fome perfons fharp- ly^ Nay what think you of our S'^i;/- o^rhimfelf? was not he angry at the hardnefs of the Jevps heart? Mark.-^ .5. Was he in any fault when he faid to hisDifciples^ O fools and flow of heart to believe ? Undoubtedly I m.ay fin- cerely and heartily love you when I exprefs a juft Indignation againft you; and you may as heartily hate me, when you feemvery gentle and kindly afJedled toward me. It is pofli- bleyoumay have met with this fay- ing out of St. jiujlin , which is ordi- narily cited by our Writers, and worth your confideration. It is fo far far from being true, that every one that is angry with others hates them ; that fometimes he who is not angry , ns thereby convinced of bearing thegrea- teft hatred to them. And this al- fo, / am not to account every one my Friend that [pares and forbears me ; nor every one my enemy that feverely correSls and lafJ^es me, Befides ; there are fome of fuch a nature, that nothing but fharp dealing will do them good. 7 hey are like knotty Blocks , which require more Wedges , and harder blovps alfo to drive them home. If he that undertakes them (faith Mr. Corn. Eurges ^ , once fa- "pfreofthe mous among you) jhall dally, and^^^^,'X' not flrike home with all his might, he Jhall find the wedge about his Jhins.Thcy will rage the more confidently when they fee he favours them ? They will think he fears and ftands in awe of them, and fo flie in his face with the greater fury. I have never found any thing truer than this ; that to fpcak fome men fair, is but to make them them have a better opinion of them- felves. They never thank you for your gentle and tender ufage ; for they imagine their Merit extorts it from you. W hatfoever Favour you fhew them, it is not imputed to your kindnefs , but their own defervings : and they perk up the higher in their own Conceit, becaufe you have fuch regard to them. That they may know themfelves therefore; they muft not be ftroaked , but fmitten ; you muft not gently jogg, but rough- ly fliake them ; if you intend to a- waken them. If you would not have them footh themfelves up in their fins; you muft openly dete(fl and dif- cover them. If you would have them fee the greatnefs of their Offences , you muft boldly reprove them, and tear in pieces all their pretences and excufes whereby they feek to hide them. And as long as you are truly charitable, and allow all that is good in them ; they may fee , if they be not perfectly blinded with a too fond Love of themfelves , that you are the Friendly Deb Me. -75 are a Friend to them, though an ene- my to their vices. For (toufethe words of a famous Writer ) as the coldeft and fierceft winds areobfer- ved to grow mild and gentle by paf- fing through temperate Regions : fo do fevere and fliarp Reproofs pertake of the naturc^of him that gives them, an^'lofe part of their aufterity when they are managed with Prudence and charity. It is a very good Old faying , Love thy neighbor ^yet pull not down thy hedge. We will be kind to you, but yet make you to kpow your Bounds. We will not fufiPer you to ingrofs to your party , the name and reputation of Godlinefs. You fliall not pafs for the only nice and tender Confcienc'd men, nor be thought moreConfci- entious than you are. Nor will we fuffer you if we can help it, to pull down the Fence that is about our Church ; thofe wife and wholefomc Laws that are made for its Safety and Security. Too much civility to you, doth but make you prefumptu- CU5. o A tmummon oj ous. You only take Occafion to grow more bold and licentious ; if in fome things we commendyour ftricSl- nefs, but winkat your faults. And therefore wemufttell you your own (as we commonly fpeak) and let the deluded people know, how Ignorant, how Superftitious , hdw Defective you are in a great number of Ghri- ftian duties; whilft you imagine your felves the moft knowing, the moft holy people in the world. If you be angry at this and callitbit- ternefs, it is no more than I expell- ed from many of you. Fora gaU'd horfe^ 1 know, loves not to be curried y and a guilty confcience loves not to be reproved. Let us go about the one or the other with never fo much cau- tion, they will be fure to winch. Though the neceflity be great and our charity much, it is all one; they have no mind to be touched. Now how necefTary and feafonable thofe InftruClions were that I gave you , I leave others to judge who are im- partial. And as for the manner of ^ de^ the Friendly Debate . n -r delivering them ; (hew me any thing in my Book that bites , but only Truth ; and I will knock out its teeth : Which if you think I have iharpened too much ; I aflure yo\i, it was only to give you a quicker fenfe of your Errors. All the Salt you may fancie in it, was intended only to feafcn you , but not to fret you at all. N. C. You can make fmooth and handfome Apologies for any thing. But ftudy as long as you will to blanch the matter, they will believe your tooth is black : and that your voice indeed may be the voice of J^/- co^,but your hands the hands oiEfau: as hairie and rough as a Satyre, C. You are marvelloufly witty. And as I have heard you commend a fandiified wit y fo it feems there is a fdnBified fcurrillity ; and one of you may rail with good Approbation, pro- vided he do it in Scripture phrafes. N. C. What ailes you to talk in this Fafhion i Have I given you any occafion ? ...^ C, Since A Continuation of C. Since you will not be fatisfied, but ftill complain of bitternefs and RcproriChes; It is* fit to let you know, that you of all other men fliould not fpeak a word of this ; which you have been fo notorioufly guilty of your felves. You are perfeflly like the Friar, who de- cldirnd againfi Stealingy when he had a pudding in his Jleeve N.C, Good Sir, fay no more; For 1 fee the more we ftir in this bufinefs, the worfe it will be. C You fpeak modeftly : But let the ifliie be what it will, you Ihall give me leave, now we have begun; to fpread fome oi the Dung that you have thrown in our Faces. And I (hall the rather undertake it, becaufe it will ferve another purpofe. For it will plainly demonftrate where your people learnt ail their reviling Lan- guage '^ and that your Minifters have been fo far from reproving them for it, that iu truth they taught them how to blafpheme , and put thofe very words into their mouths , which the Friendly Debate. 7P which now they belch out againft us. K- C, I had rather believe you up- on your word, than be troubled with fuch fluff C. No, I will not be fo much be- holden to you. But Knee you are fo goodnatur'd, youfhallnot be trou- bled with much of it. Let me only intrcat you to perufe two or three of i your Authors. Firft , there is a I Book intituled A looking gla(i for Ma- lignantSy writ by one of your ancient Minifters, Mr Vicars 'y the famous ' Author of your Parliamentary Chro- nicle, called, God in the Mount, In which he treats our Clergy and peo- ple with the wonted civilities, that your rude People now beftow upon us. He begins with the Archb. of Canterbury y whom he calls a Curfl cowy or rather a r ageing fat Bull of Baflian : vphofe hearty he faith, was more hard and Adamantine than a nether MUfione, and moft extreamly cauteriz'dyycaftig- matizd with the hotteft Iron of mofi de- fter ate Impemtency And having thus expreflcd 8o A Continuation of expreffed his refpedts and charity to him ; then he greets our inferiour Minifters by the name of Baal- Priefisy Topi[h fons of Belial: and makes it an admirable piece of Divine Providence , that the Souldiers who went again^ Scotland ( before our Wars ) /hould have their hearts over- ruled hy God, and their Spirits ordered to plunder and terrify thofe fcandalous Baal'Priefis. As for the People that followed the King, he calls them Marble- hearted Malignant Sy implaca- hie and inveterate haters ofHolyne(?; that were for meer formal Froteflan- tifm at large, which U in ejfeB down^ right Atheifm, This excellent Trea- tifewas licenfed by Mr. John White who was himfelf fuch another Revi- ler; and called our Minifters by the fame names ; nay far worfe : not on- ly Priefis of Baal, but oi Bacchus and Priapm. And though you may ima- gine he fpeaks only of thofe particu- lar men whom he put into his Centu- ries, He will inform you otherwife if you look into his Epiftle before the the Friendly Debate. 8 i the firft of them.VVhich he put forth, as he tells us, for this erfd that the EWorld might fee nhat rndfiner ofperfons our Clergy he. As if there was no diflFerence ; but the People wer(J to judge of all the reft, by thofe fto- ries which were told of fome. And truly, fo they did, and fo they do to this day. N. C. I never obferved thefe things. But you muft confider that this Vi- cars was old, and fo might be tefty : For no man well advifed lure would approve of that diforderly acftibn of theSouJdicrs, much lefs make God the Author of it. C. I remember indeed Mr. Bur- roughs "^ wonders that fo old a Pro- » vindic. feffoT of Religion as he fhould he found g'J^Gan^^^; jeering andfcorning at it, ( for he caft fome reproaches on his way ) and can find noexcufefor it, but the infirmi- ties that fometime attend an old Age. But as for that adlion of the rudd Souldiers, I remember very well, it is applauded by M.Cafe, in a Book licenfedby the fnmeMr. H'/;/>^ Juns G 27, 82 AContinmtion of 27. 1542. called Gods waiting to be gracioiis, &c. Where he makes this one of their Incouragements to ex- pe<5l thefallofE^^^/of/, becaufe God had fo vponderfuUy wrought upon the Spirits of men, particularly on thofe fouldiers, who went, he faith, to ftght the Bijhops Battles in Scotland ; that they pulCd down the Railes, Threatned the Priefisy and kept fuch a Vijitation in their progrefi, as the Bijhops hardly ever had done fince ^ueen Elizabeths dayes. This he faith, p. 119. was the Finger of God, the work of him that created the Spirit of man. N.c, You tell me News. C. It's very ftale. But no news at all to us who are well acquainted with their pitiful way of arguing. And 1 heartily wifli your Minifters would ferioufly confidler, upon this occafi- on, thefe two things. Firft, how wretchedly they were wont to reafon, and how they abufed the poor people, by incouraging them to draw the greatefi hopes from the Jlightefi grounds. For what Connexion is there the Friendly Debate, 8 3 there between thefe two things ? The diforderly Souldiers were uncivil to our Minifters, and prophaned our Churches as they went into thcNorth, therefore the fall oiBabjlon is near at hand ? It is juft like the reafoning of Mr. Henderfon who told the Parlia- ment that the Fajl which they kept on ^t* Johns day^wa^ aprefage that by the » sermon hleffing of God on theirs and the JJfem- ^q^^;^^' hlies proceedings y the Superflitionofcb- ferving Chriftma^ jhould flwrtly expire, I and that it vpoa at its I afigajp. As if one fhould fay,there was a folemn Faft in- dicfted(as they fpeak)in the Church of Scotland on the fecond Lords day mSep, 1542. for the promotingUnity inReli- gion,& Uniformity in Government: "^ ' Wiea. & theOfficers of the Army at Walling- fignants% ford houfe turned that Feftival again '^fr^?"^;^, into a day of Humiliation ; therefore '^^^• that foJemn remembrance of Chrifts Refurre(fl:ion fliall fliortly ceafe, and Chriftianity fall to the ground. N.C^ I am afhamed of the incohe- rence of fuch Difcourfcs. C. So fhould they be too? and do G 2 pub- gA A Continuation of publick pennance for it. As alfo for their grofs hypocrifieand partiality in aflfuming a power to themfelves, Icfs than which they condemn in other men. Forthej^ may turn it fecms a Fefiival of our Lords ap- pointing into a Fafl; but we may not make a Fefiival in honour of him. I would defire them alfo to confider in the fecond place, whether their Connivance at, nay, their Approba- tion of fuch things as were done without any Authority ; I may add, their praifing the blind zeal of pri- vate men who took upon them to be Reformers; and, more than that, their imputing it to the work of the Spirit and the mighty power of God ; did not help to embulden the Army afterward to do thofe things which they themfclves abhorr'd ; with a perfwafion that they were moved by the Spirit , and had a call from the Lord, though no Authority from men ? It is a thing much to be laid to heart, and then honeftly to be con- ftfled ; and publickly bewailed. And when the Friendly Debate. 85 when we fee them To humble and finccreasto tnkefhame to themfelvs for what they have done ; we fhall all have the better opinion of them. N. C. I hope thefe fpeeche* may be imputed to the rafhnefsofa few men ; at leaft they were not approv- ed by any Authority. c. Think you fo i How came Mr, Wilfons Sermon then before the Par- liament to be printed by their Order, z8 S'^/7M642. In which he calls the Clergy about the King, Croaking Frogs that crept into Kings Cham- bers : m^o are known hy the gutter ( there he thought lay a jeft ) whence they come ; out of the mouth of the Dra- gon, out of the mouth of the Reafi and thefalfe Prophet, They are the ^irits of Devils which go forth unt9 the Kings of the Earth to gather them to battle, &c. Ihe Frogs head « like their Caps [Quadrata ranarum Capita J Here if work for the Parliament, that the King may have no more Croakers in his Chambers, And here ( I may add, ) is a tail: of G 3 youf Z6 "A CmtimaHon oj your fanBified wit, or rather, devout Railing ; though borrowed, alas ! in great part from Parous on the Re- velation. JSf.c. You take things in the worfe part, when you hear or read our Sermons. C, You would have faid, perhaps, if you had read Mr. Vicars, that to the hearing of the Word there came at weU ears of Scorn, as ears of Corn, For fureyou could not but have remem- bred fuch an admirable piece of wit as this, which you may find in his Epiftle to the Reader. NX, We do not regard Wit, nor pretend to it, C. It is not becaufe you do not love it. For according to the Pro- verb ; John would wipe hU Kofe if he had it, i\Z. C. There is wit in picking a lock ; but it is better to let it alone. And therefore 1 will not vie Proverbs with you. C You are juft like the Gentle- men we are fpeaking of, who do things the Friendly Debate^, 8 j things and know it not : nay then do them, when they fay they will not. Mr. W, Bridges for inftance, reproves the Loyal Convert for ill language, and tells him he feems in vain to bs Religious if he refrain not his tongue: when as he himfelf had, juft before , let his tongue loofe in a moft riotous manner againft us ; Telling him that the Cathedrals rrere a N'efi and Cage of all unclean Birds y a harbour of dumb DogSf proud Prebends, and a crew of Ale-fvrilling Singing men: And that they came daily to offer near the Holy Tablet the blind Whelps of an Ignorant Devotion 'y of which one may fay, a4 tht jipoftUy the things which the Heathen offer infacrifice to their Idols, they offer them to Devils and not to God. Nay, as if his tongue was fet on fire of Hell and could not be tamed, immediately after he had given that caution out of S.James, befalls into a rage again; and in a moft nafty manner compares our Prelates to Swine lying in their Ordure. For he faith Hogfly-Prela- tical had been firept but tvice jhice the G 4 Can- 88 'A Continuation of Conquefi, and the Temple oijerufd- lent three times in the 3. years of our Saviours Miniftry. What office he dcfign'd himfelf in this fweetworki cannot tell ; nor how you will ex- cufe this favoury language ; unlefs it be fufficient to fay, that he railed by Fnllick Authority, NXc\ abominate fuch Refor- mers: and think they deferved to keep Hoggs, rather than feed the Sheep of Chrift. C. I am glad to hear you fay fo : And hope you as much adhor Mr. Hughes his Reproaches, who fayes, the Common-Prayer may he likened fit' ly to the abomination of Defolation fianding in the holy place. N.c, By what you told me before, I could expecft no better from him ; whom I think worthy to have been preferred to the fame office with the pther. C. But you would expedl better language, would you not? from two fuch Holy men as Mr. Alliny and Mr. Shepheard, the famous New-England Preachers ? N.C ' the Friendly Debate. 8p N. c. They fure were more Con- fcicntious than to utter any foul fpeeches. c\ Yet they tell you, the Englijh Service-Book hath Hunk above ground twice 40. year, in the "noflrils of the godly, nho breathed tn the pure air of Scripture, Defence of the 9. politi- ons. p. 61. i\r.c. No more of this Noifom language^ I bcfeech you: which is enough to poifon the Air we breath in. C. As it hath done already : and fo diffufed its venome among your peo- ple, that they are generally infccfled with this PJague. Nay, they not only do fuch things themfelves, but take pleafure in them that do them. Witnefs all the filthy reproaches they beftow upon our Divine Ser- vice, Clergy, and People: and the great fatisfacftion and applaufe wherewith the late Cobler of Glocefters writings were lately entertained, even by thole whom you efteem Religious. This flicws what manner of fpirit I you 9 o A Contimatim of you arc of, and that your people arc in danger to deprive themfelves of all fenfe of true Religion : to pave their own hearts, an4 make them like the high-way ; through which all things may pafs without any diflference ( fave only a few innocent Ceremo- nies ) even whole Cart-loads of dung and filth. And of the very fame fpi- rit, I mufl: tell you, this fort of Re- ligious people have ever been. For Martin Marprelate, with whofc De- vil this man was pofleffed ; was re- ceived with the like Applaufe, and his Writings fo thumb'd, that they vpere even worn out, with continual reading and handling of them. If you will not believe me; yet I hope you will truft Mr. Brightman whofe words thefe are ; as you may fee if you look into his Comments on the 3. Kev. ly. p, 49. of the Englifli Edit, where fpeaking of the Naked- nefs of Laodicea ( i. e. in his opinion, the Church of England ) he makes this an Argument of it, that this man had poured fuch great contempt and fliame- the Friendly Debate. ' 9 1; Ihameful reproach upon it, which is the meaning of her being Naked. There wa4 one, faith he, that called himfelfhy the name of t^lar-prelate , who/it forth a Book wherein he dealt fomewhat roundly vrith the AngeL How vpere thofe hitter jefts of hti favoured among the People ? Horp plaufihle were they in a manner to all men ? How wil- lingly and greedily \ with what great mirth were they every where entertain- ed ? There ii nonefo rude and unfkilful hut pondering that time in hif mind, would fay thus to himfelf, and that not without caufe ; Truly f the Lord hath poured out contempt upon Princes'/ thofe that honour him doth he honour, and thofe that dejpife him, /hall he de- /pifed. He hath made our Priefts con- temptible to the whole People, hecaufe they have broken their Covenant, You may read what follows there if you think good : For it is a great De- monftration, how well thofe peopb were inftrudted in the Chriftian Re- ligion ; and what rare Devifes you have been taught to blind your eyes that A Continuation of that you may not fee your fins. For you mayjpe^k evil ; and re Joyce in ini- quity ; and fport your felvcs in he- holding your Fathers Nakednefs ; and fancy all the time that you are fulfill- in^Prephefees, executing the judg^nent written; and pouring out Vials, likefo many Angels. -AT. c. Ifhould think rather this was the Devil with his followers fighting flgainft ^JVlichael and his Angels. C. And a Devill it was, whom when you had once raifed, you could never conjure down again; nor with all your Prayers and Fallings difpof- fefshim. l^ay, this foul Spirit grew in time fo outragious that he flew at laft in a foaming manner in your own faces. Which is a thing fo remarka- ble, that I cannot but put you in mind of it : how you were ferved in your kind ; and felt the tongues of men fliarpned againft yourfelves, which you had whetted to wound the reputation of others. No fooner had you pull'd down the Bi/hops, whom the Friendly Debate^. 93 whom you had laid low before by fuch fellows as that ^Martin-Mar- prelate : but out comes ^Tartins-Ec- ^Ao which return'd all thofe Reproa- ches upon Presbytery. Baal, Baby ^ lotty Egypt, and all the reft of thofe Hcathenifli names were prefled to war againftj^'ow, which you had made to ferve againft uf. Presbytery was called a Limb of jintichrifl : a tyran- nical Lordly Government ; a worfe bondage than that under the Bi/hops ; a bondage under taskmafiers , like thofe over Ifrael in Egypt. Nay that Very Mouth which reviled our Church, now reviled yothr intended Reformation. Mr. Burton himfelf, whom your people had fo much ad- mired, and brought home with fuch joy and triumph, that you fancyed (as I ihalltell you before we have done ) that day to be the KefurreBion of the Witneffes ; beftowed thofe cen- fures on Presbyterial Government : which he faid ^ would bring lu under* duxXo^iq perpetual Jlavery y vforfe than either}^^^^"^'^- Egypt or Babylon. Deformity. And P4 -^ Conmmtion of And in the very fame terms where- in you had rail'd againft our Priefis, we heard the Sectaries railing a- gainft your Presbyters : whom they called Romi[h bloody Priefis , Black Coats y Diviners and Southfayers ; Croaking Frogs ; the Devils jigents; Penfioners to the accufer of the Bre- thren, Nay, the Ajfemhly it felf we were told had two horns like a Lamh, hiit a mouth like a Dragon, teaching the Parliament to [peak hlafphemy a- gainfi the Saints that dwell in heaven. Your Uniformity alfo was as much difgraced as oars; and ftiled the idw.Gangr.^^^^^^ o/ /^^ Saint s , the bondage of part.p.2i2 t/j^ Church, the firaightning of the Spi- rit , the limiting ofChrifi ; and the ec- clipfing of the glory of the Father. Nay it is pretty to obferve, how the very itMyjlery of Iniquity, you had fo long complain'd on, was now found work- ing among you. Uniformity , Mr. Saltmarjh Cxid, was a peice of it. And Mr. DeH ( in his Epiftle before his Sermon of Right Reformation, prea- ched before the Parliament) calls Pres- the Friendly Debate . 9 5 Presbytery, a new form of that my fiery of intofuity , which had been fo long a working. The Beaft, they held, had only chang'd ks fhapc, and taken another name , and fo they bAiced it moft fiercely as you had taught them: And told you in zffc£k , what the Proverb fays, that Gocfe, and Gander, and Go fling, are three founds, but one thing. But they would not part with you thus ; for after they had done with this, then they fell upon your darling, the Solemn League and Covenant, This became a brand of infamy , a Cains mark almofi (as Mr. Cafe td\s us ^) fo that if they would .^^^^^^^^ fiigmatize a man topurpoje, they would scj-'n.for fay , He ? He is a Covenanter, As cheitcr.p, you had told us that we made an Idol ^^' of the Common-Prayer ; fo Mt. Peters told you publikely in a Sermon at the Three Cranes, that you keptfuch aftir about the Covenant , as if you would have the people make an Idol of it, Mr. Feak alfo called it, the great Idol of the two Kingdo7ns. And fo fit had this word been found to do fervice ; that 9 5 A Contimation of that at laft one told us , that you had got two Idols for our one. For the Parliament and the Pulpit y faid an ^ Outlandijh Gentleman ( imitating the language of the times,) are the two great Idols of the people, the grea- teft that ever were. For it's held a kind of blafphemy to fpeak againft the one ; and the whole Body of Re* ligion is nail'd to the other. It comes to my mind alfo, how you who joyn'd in the out- cry es againft MalignantSy were numbred, in conclufion^among them : and faid 'to be grown to a re- fined Malignancy ; but that there was no greater difference between a Presbyter and a Prelate y than be- tween an half Crown piece, and two fhillings and fix pence. And as your good friend Mr. Vicars had told us that God had made us to be ^^^ z^'^ry drudges and Scul-hoyes of his Church and children. So Mr. Peters ia good time told you (in a Pamphlet of his) that the Presbyterians were no better than Gibeonites y who might help to hew flone and fqu are timber for a more glorious building, N.C. Wi 11 th Friendly Debate. 97 N. C. Will you never have done ? C, You muft let me remember you what a mighty clamor you raifed againft the Bilhops , as if they had been fo many Ijhmaels that perfccu- ted Gods Ifaacs : and you have not forgot fure how oft you were called yourfelves, the Carnal feed, theflejh- ly children ; theperfecutorj of the chil- dren of the free woman. For your Minifters that accufed the BifhopS (and made it a main part of their Re- monfirance to the houfe of Commons in the beginning of the Wars)that they had put fome who were but Serving- men into Orders , and made them Minifters : favv in a little time a whole fwarm of vile creatures (no- thing fo good as Servingmen) making themfelves Minifters, andfettingup for the moft Gofpel-preachers. And there was no remedy : but all their preaching and printing , and petiti- oning againft it was defpifed. Thefe taught the people to call th^m blind Guides , as they had taught them to call our Priefis. N av, their Matters H at p8 A Continuation of at laft incouraged and rewarded the feoffs of thofe that faid, Ihefe blind Guides travailing as they thought to Sion , are fain into the ditch in the IJle of Wight, Infatiahle hirelings y GehaztSy cheaters, pulpited Divines , and a gieat lurry of fuch like names were libe- rally dealt to them ; as you may fee,if you will not believe me, in their own complaint,called ^iSeafonahle hxhor- tation, p, 11, Nay the Army it felf which had been fo inftrumental in all this wickednefs , and magnified by thefe revilers as the jirmy of the Lamh; at laft heard themfelves cal- led, the Abomination of Defolation, All which I mention only for this end : to fhew what your Minifters got by inftrudling the people in this cafie Art of difgracing all they dif- lik'd, with the names o£^ntichriJli' an, Babylonijh and fuch like. As they had done^fo they were requited. And while the Epifcopal Clergy filently bore the punifhment of their fins ; they that had caft out their names as abominable, were whipt with their own the Friendly Debate. pp own rdds. When they thought to re{^rj 04 kings without U6 ; immediate- ly they were aflaultcd as Egyptian 'tyrants : when they expedted all fhould bow to the Scepter ofChrifl in their hand , they faw men rifing up againfl: them as Antichriftian. Thofc that had heard their Invecftives a- gainft us , imploy'd them againft themfelves. And ail the Dung they had laid at our doors , was flung by thofe that had been their followers, in their own faces. If I were indued with the Spirit of Mr. Vicars or Mr. CafeyX Ihould have faidupon this occa- don.Behold the Finger ofGod\ the Work of him that created the Spirit of man ! See how the Lord over-ruled mens hearts ; and ordered thetr Spirits to terrific thefe Presbyters. Or Mr, Brightman would have taught me to fay, The Lord hath made your Prie/is contemptible to the whole people, he- caufe they have broken their Covenant. But I dare not imitate their boldnefs, nor talk as if I was infallible, I will let them enjoy this particular gift to H 2 them- 'A Contimmon of themfelves , of knowing wh!it God doth upon the fpirits of men. For my part, I think they might be able to fay all this , even without any ex- traordinary help of the Devil. There was no need that Beelzebub fliould come to infpire them with this fury : For they were already poflfeffed with a mighty Rage. That Spirit which fpoke out of the Prefs and Pulpit:, had abundantly furniflit them with this powerful and taking Rhetorick, And if Mr. Brightman had lived to that day ; he would have wondred to fee, how near of kin his Heat was to this Fire. Nay, he would have been afhamed of his rare way of reafon- ingagainft our Church, when he had heard fome retort his words againft us, upon the Philadelphians (I mean Difciplinarians ) faying ; Truly, the Lord hath powred contempt upon Princes : Thofe that honour him, doth he honour; and thofe that de- fpife him fhall be defpifed. jind thus I have at laji opened this rotten Ulcer (I hope you will not be an- the Friendly Debate: loT angry if I ufe his words'^) If my la- "^ in ^.Rey. hour {hall be acceptable , and the fore end "^ being purged , he healed again ; how great thanks [hall I return to God ? But if the evil jhall he only ftirred up, and the handling of it Jhall offend the fick and fore parties ; / will yet comfort my felf with the confcience of the good dip charge of my Duty, and^with theordi^ nary reward of a Phyfician, -AT. C. Difcharge of your duty ? youfliould fay difgorging yourCho- ler and Gall. Nay, they will never believe if they hear what you now Difcourfe ; but that you wrote out of meer malice , on purpofe to dif- grace them ; and that you deferve the reward of fuch Phyficians as kill more than they cure. C How came they by this faculty of fearching the heart ? N. C. How came you to ask this queftion ? C. I forgot my fclf. Since they can fee what God doth in the Spirits of men ; no wonder they can fpy our thoughts and intentions. H 3 . .V.C.I * o a A Continuation of AT C I meant , that they can fee by your Book what your intentions were. C. So they may. For I told them plainly in my preface that I intended only to awaken them to fee their Er- rors. But it feems their Spirit lookt into mine when I wrote thofe words, and could fee my thoughts better than my felf. Hath tfi B. or his difciples had fome Revelation about this matter ? i\r. C None but what they receiV" ed from your Book, which contra- dic5ls, they think, your Epiftle, and declares the hatred you bear to them. C, To their Schifmatical fpirit you fliould have faid. For 1 can fin- cerely profefs, as Mr. Edwards doth in another cafe, That I have noperfon- al quarrel with any of them, no old r^ef. to grudge y or formef difference ; and ■ tapoog. ^^^^^^^^ had not Truth confirained me, I had out of refpeB and love to fome of them, forhorn to fay any thing of thefe matters. ''And therefore let not '' my Book by reafon of its truth and '^ plain- the Friendly Delate. 103 << plainnefs be branded for a bitter, ^^ railing and malitious Writing: ^' But let tbcm confider that they *^ need fuch fi Book as doth not flat- ''ter and extol them , but be plain *^ and free with them. For the truth " is (as he goes on) they have been ** too much Hatter'd , both in their *' Perfons and Churches ; and are ^^-undone for want of being plainly ^' and freely dealt withall. A Candle " hath been too long held to them ; '^ I hope my Book may do them much '' good , to abate their fwelling and ^^ confidence. And if many of our "Minifters would deal more plainly " with them , it would be better both " for them and us. I remember a paflage concerning Luther in an Epiftle of Calvin's to ^Melandlhon (they are ftill the fame mans words) which the perfons being changed, may be fitly applied to my pur- pofe. If there were that mind in us alif that ought to. he ; perhaps fome re- medy might he found. ^And certainly we tranfmit an unworthy Example to H 4 pofte- o^ A Contimation of pofierity, while we caft away all liberl}, rather than ojfend a few men : WiU not their vehemency rife and grow the morey while all heay with them, andfuffer all things from them ? Undoubtedly it will. Our bafe filence doth but make them open their mouths wider to declaim againft us. We cherifh their infolent behaviour while we make no Oppofition and give no check to their violence. They ima- gine we allow them to be fo worthy as they fancy themfelves , while we fit ftill , and only fee and hear their Folly. And therefore to fhewthat we know them , not that we hate them, I took the Freedom to write thofe things which you accufe of Malice. N. C But , as I told you > they tend to their Difgrace. C. No man ought to think himfelf difgraced by Truth, nor reproached by juft Reproof. He fliould rather think he diflionors himfelf, a thou- fand times more , by ftill perfifting in his Errors, and juftifying his faulty. the Friendly Dehate] 105 faults. And if you refolve upon this Courfe, and feek rather to caft re- proaches on us than amend your felves ; I doubt not it will turn at laft to youi^ greater difgrace , and make you more vile in the efteem of all indifferent men. iV. C. Affure your felf you had better have been otherwife imploy'd, and never have meddled in this bufi- nefs. C. I am not afraid of any evil Tongue, nor of any thing elfe that man can do unto me : But, as your Mr. Cartwright once faid, am of Al- cibiades his mind ; who, trufting to the power of Truth , when one lift up his ftafT ready to fmite him if he would not ho)d his peace , boldly re- ply ed, Smite me, fo thou wilt hut hear me, N. C. No, they will not fmite, but they will defend themfelves. C. With all my heart. But be you afTured , as he faid in another cafe, their heels will fooner ake with kicking againft the prick:, than it fuffcr 105^ A Continuation of fuffer any hurt, by receiving their broken and ftrengthiefs Refiftance. M.C. You are very warm, and confident. C. To tell you the very truth I have long obferved in the fiery men that oppofe our Church, a llrange Pride and conceit of the godlinefs of their own party beyond all reafon ; together with a moft fiiameful de- fpifalofus, as if our Piety were lit- tle or none at all. This moved my Indignation: and it will ftir, I think, the fpirit of any honeft and cordial Chrifl:ian,to read fuch haughty Cen- fures as thefe from the mouth of your moft famous Divines. That the Bi- /hops are a generation of the Earth ; earthly, and favour not the things ofQod. They are the words of Mr. Paul Baines, approved by no lefs man than D. jimesy who is pleafed to add in his great modefty, that there vpos as much agreement between them in theix management of Religion ( except two or three)and their powerfulPreacherSydHs between the light which comes down from Heaven, the Friendly Debate. lO-j Heaven, and that thick mijl which art- Jesfrom the lovreflpitt^ And that there if more of God and hU Religion in fome one congregation of a flenc'd Miniftery than in all the BijJms families in Eng- land, I appeal to all the world whe- ther I had not reafon to Itomack thefe proud vaunts, and fcornfal fpeeches. And whether it wzs not abfolutely, neceffary to let you fee the emptinefs and flatnefs ( to fay no worfe ) of thofe men, who now infult over us in like manner; and would bear the world in hand that they are the only powerful Preachers, who alone favour the things of God. N.C, You have only cull'dafew fayings out of one or two Books C, They ftiould have thankt me for that. And might have feen if they pleafed, by that moderationf that 1 was not dcfirous to publifh their (hame more than needs: but ftudied their amendment by difclofe- ing a little of their folly, and con- cealing the reft. If they will not be- lieve but that I did my worft, and re- vealed io8 A Continuation of vealed all I knew ; let them but fig- nify this diftruft of my Charity, and I fliall give them abundant fatisfadlion. Mr. T W. I am fure hath no caufe to complain, who with fo much labour brings forth childifli fancies, and is fo curious to fpeak abfurdly, and takes fo much care to avoid ferious and folid fenfe in the moft weighty Arguments, that his great Pains; is confpicuous in thefe Defedls. Of this 1 did but give a fmall taft, and that, not out of the worft of his con- ceits; which he ought to look upon as the Civility of a Friend, and not as the want of skill in an enemy. As forMr, W.B, I confefs ingenuoufly, I faid a little the more of him , be- caufe you have been too long guU'd by fuch pretenders to Myfteries and Spirituality. Yet I do not think I faid enough, but ought to have told you plainly, thathclsoneofthe prin- cipdl Impoflors that have perverted the Truth as it is in Jefus, and adulterated the Chriftian Religion in this Nation. He fpoiies almoft all the Holy Scrip-- ture the Friendly Debate'. log ture he meddles withal ; and turns it into an idle tale of thefe times, and makes it fay whatfoever it plcafes him and his Profelytes to hear. Which when J ferioufly confider, I cannot but fay with a little alteration as one doth, on another occafion, to his Countrymen. ^'That it is a *^ fliame there are laws againft thofe *' who counterfeit CoyneSj, and fal- *^ fify Merchandizes ; yet fuch are *^ permitted who Sophifticate our " Divinity, and corrupt the Holy ^' Scriptures, and turn our Religion '^ into a new fancy and device of their *' own. The late^r^^^ JPlague is but "offmall confideration in compare '* with this mifchief ; and if fpeedy ^^ order be not taken, the multiply- '^ ing of fuch Authors will make a '* Liibrary as big as London, wherein ^' there fliall fcarcely be found one " wife Sentence, or reafonable Con- [' ceit. i\r. C. It's thought Sir by fome that you are much miftaken in mak- ing him the Author of that Book which no A Continuation of which you reprove, fince it bears only the two firft Letters of Mr. Bridge his name. And I have heard you blam'd for charging him with thofe things which he hath not ownU C, I think rather thofe Apologifls aremiftaken. For why doth he not difown it, if it be not his Book ; fince it contains fuch dangerous things? Or why did not the Preface to ano- ther Eook^fince ftoln into the world and carrying his name in the front of it, inform us that this was genuine, and the other Spurious? But if he had, there are very few that would have believ'd him. For they are as like each other, as two pieces of Cloth, that are of the fame Wool, the famx thred^, the fame colour, working and bredth. There is the very fame Canting in both ; the fame abufe of Holy Scripture, the fame Spiritual pride and contempt of others, the fame evil fpeaking and feditious Dodlrines ; and in one word, the way and Spirit of Mr. Bridge. NX.' the Friendly Debate . ' 1 1 1 N'C. Why do you jeer? I know you allude to the Title of one of thofe Ten Sernions, which he calls, the Wdy and Spirit of the New Teftament, C' I do fo : ^And am better able to defcribe his way and Spirit, than he to fet out that. iV. C. I think you had better for- bear fuch Gomparifons. C. Pray let me try a little. It will both divert us a while , and not prove unprofitable. Turn I pray you to ^ the fifth Set mon, at your leifure ; and '^'^* tell me when you have compared our Conceits, whether of us do better. Firft, I fay, the way and Spirit of Mr. Bridge, ii not ( as he would have it ) 4 Childlike, hut a Childijh Spirit. A way and Spirit that hath nothing manly; nothing of the ancient Chri- lian fcnfe and Spirit in it : but a- jounds with Phrafes, trifling obfer- vations, and perpetual Tautologies : And yet thinks it felf moftgorgeouf- ly bedeck't with GoJ}^el Truths, Dif- !?enfations, Manifeftations, Difcove- riesy and 1 know not how many other glorious things befides. Second- ^112 A Continuation of Secondly, it is not a fearing, but ti fearlefi Spirit; dareing to talk of God and our Saviour in the boldeft and rudeft terms, taking a kind of Pride in inventing new and mon- ftrous Expreffions; and fpiritualiz- ing Religion into airy fancies. Thirdly, The way and Spirit of Mr. B, is not an underflanding, hut a Non-fenfical Spirit, An inftance of which is this, that it hath no certain rule whereby to meafure the love of God. But fometimes it made fuc* cedes a great argument of Gods re- gard to them ; and now it tells us that the Crofles are a mark of it, and that theChildren of God muft be per- fecuted by the World. Fourthly, The way and Spirit of Mr. B. if to trade much, or mo(i, or altogether with fancies and Dreams. N, c. Pray do not fay fo. C. You may put it in other words if you pleafe, and fay it trades with ahfolute Fromifes. But thats the fame ; for they are no better than dreams and fancies. Fifthly, the Friendly Dehatt. 113 Fifthly y In the old time men exa- mined and confidered what they believ- ed ; and came to Faith by rational dif- zourfe ; But now in the dayes of Mr,B. Men are taught to believe they know not why, and Keafon u decry ed 04 en- mity to the things of God, Sixthly^ In the old time Chrifti- ans were oi^modefi and humble Spirit'^ but the way of Mr. B. u to teach them to he high and confident ; and to ima- gine great Difcoveries and Revelati- ons to be made to them. And there* fore they wrong'd Mr. Edwards very much, when they faid his Gangr^na was full of lyes, becaufe he told ftrange ftories of men that pretended to have had Revelations, and feen Vijjons : for we find Mr. J5. is one of them. Seventhly, In the old time Humili- ty, Purity, Righteoufnefs and Cha- rity were held to be things moft dear to God;but now in the way and Spirit of Mr. B. His Peo- I pie, 1 1 ij. A Continuation of pie, his Truth, and his Worjhip. Thefe are his Fl^te, his Jewels, his Trea- Jure, as I told you thelaft timeout of one of his Ten Sermons. But you mull know it is not a new difcovery, but an old and darling Notion of his ; which 1 find in his Sermon before the Parliament, 29. AW 1643. There he tells us, Thitee things God loaves more f^ecially, HisFeople, his Truth, and his worjhip. And it is a beloved conceit I perceive among the party; for one of his Brethren delivered it to Mr.Tiio. the Parliament before him ; and told S^^oT them in a peremptory manner, ex- Apr.27. eluding all other things, God hath 1642.P.51. o to ^ . but three thtngs dear to htm tn the World ; the Saints, his Worjhip,and his Truth. But which of thefe he loves belt he could not tell ; for God there- fore ordained Saints to he in the World that he might he Worjhip' t ; and appoin- ted Ordinances of War/hip, as means to huild up his Saints, Some honeft old Ch rift ian would have told this great Divine if he had heard him ; you trouble your felf, Sir, about need- Jefs the Friendly Debate. 1 1 y Icfs Queftions: There is fomething God loves better than all thefc, viz^. Holynejs, and all Moral Fertue. For I in truth there are no Saints or people of God ( but^only in name ) without thefe. Take away thefe, and the moft Orthodox Notions that cnn be in your head, will make you no bet- ter than a Devil. Nor will the ex- adleft worfhip, according to the pureft Ordinances, fail to be an Abo- mination to the Lord, if thefe be ab- fent. But I forget my felf. The way and Spirit of Mr. B. is not to talk of any thing elfe, hut pure Wor- Jhip, pure Ordinance^j Gojpel ^Admi- niflrationsy and fuch like matters; upon the account of which they e- fteem themfelves more holy, Spiri* tual and Evangelical than other men. And be they never fo bad; alfs one for that. Mr. B, hath a Rule which is very comfortable; "^ Humble your'^^^[^'^;,^^^ f elves for fin though it he never fo fmall ; hut do not quefiionyour condition for any fin, though it he never [o great. Per- haps you will fay, I do not under- I t ftand 11(5 A Continuation of ftandhim: and truly that's no fuch great wonder : For, Eighthlj, Where- as in the old time men wrote and fpokefo, that one might underftand what they meant; the way and Spi- rit of Mr. B. is quite contrary, which is to fpeak that which he himfelf, I believe, doth not underftand. Wit- nefs feveral things I could fliew you in his Fir ft of the Ten fermons, con- cerning Love to Chrifis perfonal ex- celiencies, without re^eSl to his bene- fits. Befides this, Ninthly, In old time they gave good proof for what they faid ; but the way and Spirit of Mr. B, is, to put us ojfrpith a loufy Simili- tude or two ; by which he doth all his feats. N.C. Why do you fpeak in this manner ? C I have good reafon for that Epithite, but now it is time to make an end. And to fay no more but this, in the old time the way was to demon- ftrate things either from their Cau- k%, or from their Effecfls, or from Tefti- the Friendly Debate^, 117 Teftimony, according as the matter would bear: but now it is much, or mofllyy or altogether the way of Mr. B. to make a comparifon, and find outfomc pitiful refemhktncey which pafles for a good reafon of what he fayes, with the men of his way and Spirit. Ex. gr» to prove that an unconverted man cannot know how full of fin he is, he will tell you the reafon is hecaufc his Hoops are on. As a Veffel that is full sinfuin* of liquor, and the liquor iffues through^^^^^'^'^^ the Hoops ; you fee there is liquor in it, hut you do not know how full it is, till the hoops are knocked off: hut then you will fayy O how full was ijjis Veffel i Ah now our hoops are on, and it doth not yet appear how full of fin men are ', only it comes ijfuing through the hoops ^ through their duties ; but a Day is come- ing when all our hoops p?all he knocked offy and then it will appear how full of fin men are. Thus he argues excel- lently from the Barrel-, and at ano- ther time you fhall find him as good inhisreafons taken from another li- quor in a hrafipan or Pot. For to I 3 prove ii8 AContimaHonoj prove that fome mens little fufFer- ings may amount to much, whereas other mens great fufferings may a- mount to little, he can give you no other Reafon l?ut that God hath a very gracious allowance for his people ; a little will content him from them whom he loves. For which he al- ledges the Commendations beftowed on the Patience of Job, though he i^ri was impatient : "^ true y faith he, ^//^ work- p. 47. God did not meafure Job in hU wallops , but when he was cold. As we do not meafure milk when it wallops andfeeths, hut when it is cold-—^- N' <^. Good Sir, have done 'with this; for it is but the fame that you faid before in the former particular, when you told me of his fimili- tudes. C. That's very true. But this is ftill the way and Spirit of Mr. B. to fay the fame thing over again in a new fafhion, and as the old faying was, toferve up one joynt, in a dozen or two ofdifkes. But to give you full ftieafure, I will put another in the room 1 the Friendly Debate. 1 1 p ■room of that. There was a good Chriftian Spirit in the ancient times; but the way and Spirit of Mr. B. is Jntichrifiian. N, C, Fie for fliame. That's the thing he charges on you. C. I know it very well. But fet- ting alide the Papifts And a few o- thers, who fo guilty of it ashimfelf? For it is Antichrittian to reproach our Church as he doth. It is An- Compare tichriftian to condemn the prefent Ten.scrm. wor/hip of God among us, and calP'^'^' it Antichriftian. To decry an out- ward glorious Worfhip as he makes bold to do, is Antichriftian. It is Antichriftian to oppofe all degrees of men in the Church ; it being plain that there were Apoftles , Evange- lifts and Prophets ordairi'd by Chrifl, as there v/ere high Priefts, Priefts and Levites ordain'd by Mofes, It is Antichriftian to call white Garments legal, and Antichriftian. In fhort, a furious, feditious, fchifmatical Spi- rit, I am fure you will grant , is an Antichriftian Spirit , and fuch is I 4 the 1 2 o 'A Continuation of I the Spirit of Mr. B. as I will evident- ly prove. M C, Do not undertake an impof- fible task. C. There is nothing more eafie, as ' you will foon fee, if you look but in- to his Sermon of the Two WittteJfeSy printed with his name to it. In which you may read the danger we all are in 5 if his Vifions and Revelations be true. For having told us, plainly enough , that fuch as he and their followers are the Witnefles , who receive their Orders to prophefie from Jefus Chrift himfelf , not from men, v.pag.i22. from the Prelates , from the Eeafi : ofthatserm.j.{^gj^ he procccds to let us know what power they have ; which to omit the reft, is twofold and much to be ob- ferved. Firft , to Jhut the Heavens that they (hall not rainy Rev 11.6. that is, faith he, to reftrain the highe ft port- ers in Church and. State , from their fronted influence , which dan have no other {^cnk than this ; that they fhall be fo powerful as to bind the hands of their Governors, and tye them up from the Friendly Debate] 121 from being able to adt. And then Secondly , They [hall have power over the waters to turn them into bloody that is, to turn the [till people of a State or Nation into war and blood. A". C. Surely they have no fuch Orders from Jefus Chrift; nor will he ever give men fuch power as this. C. That's nothing. They may take this Power, though he do not give it them. For4ie tells you, 7hif may he done^ though not legally . For the proof of which , he bids you ob- ferve , that though it be faid he will give them power to prophefie ; it is not faid he will give them, but they fh all have power y to fliut heaven, and turn the waters into blood. That is, give fuch orders to themfelves , and af- fume this Authority ; for he repeates it again , It may be thif tnay he done^ and not legally. What though the Laws of God and man command us to obey Magiftrates , not to govern them; to live in peace and quiet and not to dirturb the publick tranquili- ty: 12 2 ^ Continuation of ty : That's a fmall matter with thefe men, who fanfying they have receiv- ed a Commiflion to prophefie , may inlarge it a little further on their own heads, unAjhutyx^y orimprifon the higher powers that they fhall not a(5t ; and then put the people into a commotion that they may fifli in the troubled waters. And whenfo- ever you fde thefe things corns to pafsy as he tells you ; when you fee the Wit- ttejfes have power td re f train the highefi powers in Church and State from their wonted influence \ and that they have power to turn theftill Nations into war, {andfo they themfelves areflainfor the prefent) then you may lift up your heads and comfortably fay , Kow is our Sal- vation near ; For God will bring near his right eoufne(^y and his Salvation Jhall not tarry, N. G. God forbid I fliould thus underftand his Revelations, Truly, it would make* me hang down my head ; if I thought any fuch things were now a brewing. I hope for Sal- vation in another way, and had ra- ther the Friendly Debate. 1 2 3 ther it would tarry than be thus ac- complished. C. Take it as you will,thefe things are near; if he may be believed , and \vill not tarry. The Influence of the Higher powers he imagines, I conceive , are already very much re- ftrain'd : There wants nothing but the troubling of the quiet and ftill people that they may reftrainthem more powerfully : and that may foon be effedled ^ if his dodtrine be re- ceived. M C. He fays no fuch thing. C. Not in cxprefs words, he is wifer than fo ; but it's the plain fenfe of his Difcourfe. For he tells you the 1260 years of their prophefying in fackcloth began about the year 400, and therefore fur ely the end of the time vre muft needs he about % as his words are /?. 114. Now if you mark what they are to do toward the end of the time ; you will fee it as plain as the nofe on my face, that he thinks we muft needs be about the time of {hutting the heavens and turning the waters into blood. iN^.C.We 124 • ^ Comimatm of N. C. We are paft the time, my good Friend, for if we add 1260. to 400. the year when they ended their prophefie was 1660. O how glad I am that he was miftaken. I hope we fliali have no wars nor tumults ; and that God will open thefe mens eyes to fee their errors ; fince no powers were then reftrain'd , but thofe that would have kept the King from his throne, to which he was re- ftored in that happy year, C. You are an honcft hearted man I fee; which makes you lefs fufpecffc the craft of others. There s one word in his difcourfe which you do not ohCcrwCyviZ'. thereabout. That falves the bufinefs, and ferves him for a lit- tle while. For he tells you the X2(5o. years might begin in 406". or 410. af- ter our Saviours Birth. If you take the former number, then the pro- phefying in fackcloth ended in \666. the year when they expedTred great matters ; and of which fome confi- dently cryed to the people out of the Pulpits ( before they left them ) Be patient^ the Friendly Debate. 125 patient y for 1666, vp ill make an amends for all. But it failing their expecfta- tion and producing nothing accord- ing to their mind ; that* s the reafon 1 conceive why he hath fince that, put in the year 410. for the beginning of the years il6o. and fo adjourns us for their ending to 1670. which is 'now approaching. Then no doubt he fancies the Witnefles muft be flain ( when they have iirft troubled us) and after three years and a half rife again. For he asks his people, p'li$' If Chrifts Witnejfes Jhali lye in fackcloth 1260. years, will not you he contented to be in fackcloth three or four years ? Chrifiians will you not be con- tented to he in fackcloth three or four years ? And in the next page after tells them, Why now, according to the calculation , there is not much time to come, There is hut a little time of fackcloth to come. Shall we not watch with him one hour, and wear fackcloth with him one hour ? Wait a while and he that fhall come, will come , and will fict tarry. And then he tells them thev 12 5 A Continuation of they fhall wear white robes y and come out with Palmes in their hands ; that is the kingdom ftiall become theirs, and they fhall reign and triumph over us. N. C. He doth not apply thefe things to us in this Nation , as you feem to underftand him. C. He tells us indeed, /. 124. That he will not apply them to times and pla- ces. But thofe words are only a grofs equivocation ( which he muft be very thick-fcuird who doth not difcern) for he had done it already. Having told his Hearers that they were Chrifts Witnelles , and that now they were in a fackcloth condition ( as his phrafe is) but that it would not laft long, and that before it was end- ed they fliould have power to reftrain the higher powers and trouble the people. What need he tell them more ? It was enough :, I make no queftion , to make them lift up their heads ( as he oft exhorts them) and bear them very high ; as being likely in ftiort time to have Dominion over us- the Friendly Debate". 1 2 7 us. And I cannot for my life but look upon them as fatiating their fancies, with the imagination of this day of vengeance. Methinks I fee them (to ufe the words of a famous Writer againft our Church and State in another cafe) like a many Tvho in the drought ohferves theSkie, fitting and vratching , nhen any thing will drop that may follopL them with the iikenefsofa punijhment from heaven up- on us \ which they ftreight explain as they pleafe. No evil can befall us, but prefently they pofitively inter- pret it, ajudgment upon us for their fakes : and as if the very of the herd, and are doing the work of God , fulfilling prophecies , and making the cleareft Comment on the Revelations, jBut if there be not a fatal blindnefs on them I fliall plainly fliew you, that this is fo grofs a Cheat that no obferving perfon can be deluded by it. Mr. Bridge you muft know is not the firft that hath fuborn'd the Revelation to fpeak on his fide , and witnefs to his Caufe. There have been many be- fore him who have aflumed the per- fons of Prophets, and prognoftica- ted their own wifhes would come to pafs. But the event hath fo evident- ly dete(5lcd the fraud and made the forgery the Friendly Debate. »3i forgery appear, that he is very impu- dent who goes about to fcrve himlelf of this old trick; and they prodigi- pufly filly who will ftill be deluded by it, and feed on the weakconje- diures of thofe who have .nothing elfeto fupport their finking fpirits, but that which hath made lo many a- fliam'd who relyed on it. For Mr. jivcher ^, you muft know, ''inhisBo becaufe it will make his heart fick, to hear his hope is like to be fo long deferred. For after thefe Writers I have mentioned, Mr.Tho. Parker oi^hevifiom New-England printed a Book about phec.of thefe things, in which he layes downf^^^^^^ two wayes of accommodating the years. If they begin when there were but dark and weak beginnings of the figns men- ia2 a Continuation of mentioned, that was he thinks in the year 390. and fo the 1260. years end with 1649. Then the Turks will ceafc to he loofedf and the next year after , they may begin to fall together with the Pope, if this way of accommodation hold. If it do not ; then we muft ftay a great while. For the more evi- dent j open and perfeSifiate oft he things foregoing was not till the year 600. and fo no fhutting of the Heavens, no turning the water intobloud, at leaft, no putting off their fackcloth, which Mr. B. now expedts; till the year 185^9. N. c. Stop Sir, I befeech you once more. For I think you have told me too much of this fluff'. c. The laft man fpeaks modeftly, and therefore it was not afnifs to hear him. As for the reft 1 fliould not have troubled you with their Con- jedlures, had it not been to let you fee ; Firfi, what they think of us, ,whom they call the Jfitichriftian, the Popijh party y the Gentiles and Nations^ thtfot loners of the Dragon, and fuch like the Friendly Debate ] l" 4 2 like Names. S^cow^/y,what they think ot thcmfclves ; who are, in their own cfteem, the Witnejfes of Chrift Jefus, the Godly party, the Saints that are to rule the Nations y with a rod of Iron ; the followers of the Lamb, who are to afcend to Heaven^ the Scat of Juftice, and do execution upon us. Laftly , What a Sandy Foundation their hopes are built upon ; and how confi- dent they are, and well perfwaded of themfelves without any caufe at all. And that indeed is the chiefeft thing I aimed at. To make you fenfible, they have no ground for that high opinion they have conceived of their own wifdom and infight into the things of God : they being blindly lead by their own Imaginations and paflionate Defires, while they think they underftand and fee more than all the Wifemen in the World. So the laft man but one, that I named, brag'd and vapoured : gloryinjr that he had found out that truth ivhich none of the wicked Jhould underfland ; neither Priefi tior Prophet ; Rulers nor Seers, All is I A A ^ Continuation of is hid and covered from them, and the reafon is, becaufe they drank of the Clip of the Whore, of which if a man take but one Sip, he is utterly in- capable to have the Vifions or Myfte- ries made known to him. And there- fore he triumphs in this manner over all our Nobles and Clergy : Who will believe of all our great men and learned Prelates, that Jefm Chrifi is come in the Clouds of Heaven, and isfet down upon the Throne of Judicature in his Saints and Witnejfes, tojudg that man of fin ? No indeed ; they had more wit. And yet thi^ the man thought, in his felf conceited Wifdom, to h Of clear as the Sun, N.C. I am fu4iy fatisfied that they were much out of the way : And therefore more words are needlefs. c. That the way ( you might have faid) andSpirit of Mr JBr/W^ismoft- ly and chiefly to be out of the way. i\r. C. I leave thofe conceits to you. C. And you will leave it to me alfo, for you take no notice of it, to tell vou the caufe of all this. iV.C Be- the Friendly Debate. \^^ A^. c. Becaufe I do not know it. C. It's eafy to fee that is nothing jlfc but their pride and vain-conceit )f themfelves; as if God would re- peal all his fecretsto them, and hide :hem from others. For they are the Vdtch-men upon the Tower, the Em- hajfddors of Chrift, the Angels of the Churches, the Lords Worthies : And they that follow them, are the Holy- wesy the Dear people of God, the littU Flock, the Lambs of Chrift y the Meek of the Earthf the Redeemed ones, and ithe Remnant of Jacob. Nay, as foon as ever any perfon comes to hear them preach ; they hope there is a work of ^race in their hearts, and that they begin to favour the things of God ; and to defjre the fncere Milk of the Word. As for our Minifters, Alas poor Crea- tures ! they are the Falfe Prophets^ blind Guides y Idoljhepherds, that have eyes indeed but cannot fee at all. And our people are the World, the Wicked, the children of the Evil one, Enemies of God, and fuch as remain ftiU in Fgypt. At leaft, the vail is before L our ia6 -^ Cmtinmtion of our eyes ; or we have taken a fip ol the Cup of the Whore^and that fends up fuch fumes into our heads, that we cannot poflibly difccrn the myfte- ries of God. Hence it is that the' meaneft of you takes himfelf to be . . wifer than the beft of us ; than any of our Bifhops and Priefts, nay the whole Clergy put together. And if we will not have fuch a man in the fame efteem that he hath himfelf; prefently we are looktupon as enemies of the power of Godlinefs, formal fellows, or mere moralifts, that hate the true feed. N,c, IDoth not David tell us, that God had made him wifer than all his teachers ? C. See how you ftill equal your felves with men infpired. From which vain conceit and arrogant Opinion, I make no doubt, it is, that you take every fudden fancy and flrong imagi- nation that comes into your head, to be an Infpiration of God. And that you are fo adventurous and bold in expounding the Holy Scriptures^as if it the Friendly Debate^. \An t were given you in that moment, as t was the Apoftles, what you fhould hink and what you fhould fpeak. vTay, fo deep have you drunk of this tVitchesCup, andarefo intoxicated with felf-conceit and fclf-love, that ^ou imagine all your Devices, and forms of Religion and Government muft be received by all the world. For your mind is the mind of God,and your words the Oracles of God. So even }s\i» Edwards himfelf feems tOEpifiiehe-' fancy, when he exhorts all people [^J^i^^^^* that were waving and hung doubtful between Presbytery and Independency, to wait upon God in that way of his, an Aflembly of fo many learned and Godly men, to fee what he will be plea- fed to jfeak by them, N.c. What is this to all the World ? wxre they bound alfo to liften to what this Oracle would utter ? c. You are too quick. I was go- ing to add that as they think them- fclves the beft people here, fo the befl: in the world : and look upon the Re- L 2 for- •148 A Continuation of formation it fclf, as needing a Refor- mation. And therefore hoped that ^ iftheyfetled Religion among us ac- cording to their mind, there would be ^ a pattern from the Wordfet up in thif Iflandy for an eicample to aU other kirks^ abroad. Thus the Commijfioners of* the general AlTembly of the Kirk of •Direaions Scotland tell us : "^ and therefore call toMiniftersupon the Miniftcrs to ftirup them- lignants. ' felves, and the people in Truth and ^**^* Unity, becaufe, fay they, it will be a powerful means to preferve our Reli- gion, and to propagate the fame to other Churches, groaning under their feveral burdens, and panting for fuch a Refor- mation as the Lord in Mercy hath gran- ted us. And accordingly they in- didled the Faft, 1 told you of, on the Lords-day, for the promoting Unity in Religion, and Uniformity in Government, and the advancing the Kingdom of Chrifi ( /. e, their Difci- piine ) every where. N.C. None excepted ? C. No. For Mr. Cafe tells the Commiflioners of the General Af- fembly. ' the Friendly Deflate. '14P fbmbly, * that God had honoured 'Epiftie be. their Nation in making them the firft ^oi,^^iied fruits and pattern of a thorough and ^|?^^^^*"^* Covenant-Reformation to us, and covenant all the reft of the Chriftian World, And to ti^. withal fayes, / am- humbly confident y that the fame /hore jhall not hound this Covenant y which hounds the now two Covenanti^^ Nations , Butf a^ it U [aid of the Go^eU fo it mil he Verified \ of thu Goffel-Covenant ; The Sound thereof (hall go into all the Earth, and the Words of it to the End of the World. ^ 'p.62.of j N.c. Strange Prefumption ! '^'°^^'- C. Ifuppofe he could have found a text for it in the Revelation, if you had prefumed then to queftion his humble confidence. For I obferve the General Ajfemhly tell his Majefty, that if they may but have that Unity in Religion and Uniformity of Church-Government in the two Kingdomes which they petition him for, it will appear then that the un- , happy Commotions and DivifionshisMAUfh-, among us, were but the ^ Noifeof^^l^^' L 3 many i ^o 'A ContinmHon of many Waters, and the Voice of a great thunder, before the 'voice of Harpers, harping with their harps ; which fhall fill the whole Land with Melody and mirth ; and the name of it fhall be,| the Lord is there. The place to which j they refer, you know, is 14. Rev. 2. \ Now immediately after this joy and Melody there follows, as you may fee. T. 6. an jingel flying in the midfl of Heaven, having the Everlafiing Gof- pel to preach unto every Nation^kindred, tongue J and people. That is, as Mr. Cafe perhaps might have expounded it, this Gofpel-Covenant St. John ^ faw, upon the wing, about to fly to the end of the World. N.C, No man could befo abfurd. r. What greater abfurdity is there in this, than in the application which the General Adembly make of the foregoing words to the fame pur- pofe ? i\Z. C. I approve of neither. C. But then poflibly they might have perfwaded you it was a good ex- pufition; when Mr» Cafe made you believe the Friendly Deflate. i 5 1 believe the Covenant was an Ordi- dance of God, an Holy Ordinance, ^ ^ ^jf^; pla'Sl pure and Heavenly Ordinance ; yea, o.^'the fore* one of the moll fpecial and folemn/ [ being a joy ningOrdinance which ftrikes ' the main ftroke between God and us : t][iQ Marriage knot J whereby God and a people are made one: apieceofZ)/- vine Worjhip, and, as far as 1 can dif- cern, a more holy, or higher Ordi- nance, in his efteem, than the Sa- crament of Chrifts Body and Bloud. N. C. For (hame do not abufe men. c. I am far from it, as you may fee if you will but confult his Anfwer, to this Objedlion which fome made againft it. It is necdlefs, faid they, to take the Covenant ; or rather a prophanation of fo holy an Ordi- nance; fince we have done it over and over again in our former Pro- teftations and Covenants. To which he replies. "^ Tou receive the Sacrament , p ^^^ of the Lords Supper once a month, and that if hut a Seal of the Covenant, Con- jidcr it, and he convinced, L4 N,c.\ 1 5^ 'A Continuation of N.C. I am convinced of this, that youdonotbely him. C. Very well. And therefore he exhorts the Minifters to indeavour, to JanBifie the people forfo holy a Ser- 'vice, as the taking of it ; and tells the people they muft get their hearts into an holy Ordinance frame, Jufl: as if they were going to a new mount Sinai, to beentredinto a new Reli- gion ; and feparated from the Nati- ons to be a peculiar people zealous of the Covenara, And indeed, he all along makes it of the fame nature with that Covenant , which the children of If rael made or renewed with God : and fo confidently applies all the places of Scripture which fpeaks ot that, to this holy fervice; that one cannot tell by any thing he fays, but this was the Covenant which the Holy Books fpeak of. Nay fomeofthem when the Covenant came into Eng- land lookt upon it as the Ark of Gods * Beam cf prefence, as Mr. Feak tells us *, upon ^^^ ^* the account of which they fliould certainly profper. And Mr. Cafe, I re- I the Friendly Debate. I'^j remember, tells us, this wasthefia of England in former times, That our Fathers knew not this fervice : it wa4 hid from them ; they regarded it not : and thofe times of Ignorance God winked at, or God lightly regarded them. N. C, Sure he did not imagine all our Pious Anceftors to be Hea- thens. C, You (hall judge by and by what thoughts thefe men have of us all, when I have told you , that in the ftrength of thefe high towering thoughts, and lofty imaginations they taught the people to go to bat- tle againft their Soveraign , and to fancy the Lordnaarch*t before them. They were confident they (hould pre- vail becaufe they were the Jacobs and we but Efaus ; and the Elder mujl fervethe Younger: nay, we the feed of the Serpent and they the feed of the Wo- man ; and fo they muft wound our heady i. e. give us an incurable mortall blow. Thus they were taught by Mr. U. IVilkinfon, in an Epiftlc before a Ser- 154 ^ Continuation of » preacht Scrmon "^ of his : in which he tells p^Sn^t ^^^ Parliament again, that they havs 25x>a:ob. to do with a brood of Serpents, p. 1 5 . at '^'* the beft, that we are hut a peice of Pa- pal Chriftendom, as hisphrafe is,/?. 8. Nay, when the pride and paffion boiles up to its height , then they look upon us and the reft of the world , but as Infidels and Pagans. What other Conftrudlion can you make of the letter of the Scots in Ire- * convened land to the General Aflembly"^? In fr^^in which they defire them to fend over juiyi642. fQj^g Minifters to them; God hav- ing now opened a fair door to the Gofpel by the baniOiment of the Pre- lates and their followers. Nay,they call to them, as if they made an Ad- drefs to fo many Jpofiles , and the Proteftants in Ireland were but fo many Heathens ; Pitty poor ^tace- doniansy crying to you, that you would co7ne and help usy&cc. Send able men to help to lay the foundation of Gods houfe according to the pattern. And agree- * Augufi. 6. able to this Petition they returned an f^^ ^^^ Anfwer^ in the Apoftoligal language, telling the Friendly Debate. i y'5 telling them , though fhey are loth lo jiretch themfehes beyond their cvrn meafure , yet they dare not be want- ing to the inUrgement of Chrijis King- dom. And fo they fend them fome men to plant and to water according to the direcflions of Jefu^ Chrifi, and the Dodtrine andDifciplineof that Kirk, wlfhing that they who are fent may come with the full hleffing of the Gofpel of peace ; and that they will with all chcarfulnefs embrace and make ufe of the mejfage of Salva- tion, Who would not think, that reads this, if he were a Arranger to our Country, that fome few Ghrifti- ans in that Ifland had fent for fome Jpojfolical men .or Evangelifls to plant ths Gofpel among a Pagan People ? And that the Prelates and Minifters under their obedience, had been but fo niany Heathen-Priefis , that nurs'd up the Nation in barbarous Igno- rance !* Such is the goodly conceit they have of themfelves , and their horrible contempt and fcorn of all o- thers. From whence it is, that they call 1^6 A Continuation of call us the Nations \ asking their people when they do any thing that we do. Why do you imitate the Cufiomes of the Nations ? And there ufed , I remember, to l?e no phrafe more ^ common than this, when a man re- moved his dwelling to a place where one of your Minifters was , that he went to live under the GofpeL And when they inquired of the welfare of their Friends, the current Phrafe w^as. How do the Chrijiians of fuch a Town ? According to the import of which language Mr. Bridge takes the boldnefs to call us Gentiles^ in the » rafiserm.eares of the Houfe of Commons * ; ^tl^!^' telling them that the Homes ( the Kings party) may pujh andfcatterfor a time ; hut the Carpenters (viz. the Parliament) {hall fray them ajvay, and cafi out thefe Gentiles, And another bold Writer * tells them that the ticktothi Army had often put the ^Armies of the A^^'uHy ^^^^^^ fo flight, and therefore muft forLibcm- K-g confidcrcd. Nay, he is fo profane as to fay > 'Take heed of refifling the Holy-Chojiy for that mighty works have been the friendly Debate. 157 heeti done by thefe men you cannot dany^ p. 12. Miracles it fecms were reviv- ed again, to convince us, who were either poor L^^/////?j, or Heathen Ido- laters. Yea, God did hy a continued feries of^^iracles and wonders (if you will believe the Rump of the Parlia- ment * ) exalt his name in the eyes cf* Dcdar.of this and neighbour Nations by their ^'^- ^v^- means. But alas ! we were the moft reprobate and hard hearted of all o- thcr jiliens , that could not be con- verted. Uncircumcifed Fhilifiines^ in Mr. Cafe's language : Nay , jimale- kites y with whom the Lord would have war for ever. N. C Now you grofly abufc them. C. Read the preface to Mr. W. Bridges his Sermon, ^ and judge Pre^cht whether I be guilty of that fault or Houfe'of' -.^ Com. Febr. N.C. What doth he fay. C He tells you that the bufinefs of Chrifts Kingdom is lookt upon by the fquint-eyed multitude, under an Hexapla of con fid er at ions » NX, What's j^g A Continuation of A" C. What's an Hexapla ? C. Nay, You muft not trouble your felf about his phrafe , for he tells you in the conclufion of that preface, It is fuch as lean fpeak, and Idejire to he thankful it is no worfe, con- Jidering my defer ts. K C. Well then let's hear it, as bad as it is. C, After he hath done with the theological , the Hiflorical and the Legale he comes to the fourth confi- deration> which is Critical. And what's that think you ? AT. C. You would not let me ask Queftions, and therefore Tie make no anfwer to yours. C. You would never guefs if you did; nor canthemofl:Cy/>/V^/ofyou all tell why he gave it that name ; for it is one]y this. My money /ball never help to kill men. To which he An- fwers, well ; '\i you hinder the killings quelling cf thofe who would both kill and quell m J ours, our Religion ^ Ki:'^gdo7n; you become friends of Gods enemies and ours; and refolve to make peace with them, the Friendly Dehate ] ^^9 them , vptth whom God hath refohed to have war, Exod. 17. ult. What think you now, did not this man look upon us as jimalekites^ and wifli the Servants of the living God y to whom he addreflcs his Hexapla of conftderationSy would have war with us eternally ? Do you not fee what is like to become of us, if men of this Spirit have Power again proportionable to their Will i muft not our name he blotted out ? and muft not he be accurfed that doth the work of the Lord negligently ? N. C. I pray no more Quefti- ons. C. And then all your Vidtories will be called once more, the return of prayers, which you take to be as powerful as the lifting up of the Friendly Debate] 1 7 \ again, and are but at their Witnefjing' Worky and Prophefying its Deftrutfli- On. Now Mr. Bridge tells us, "^ this **?earonable is the work of our Generation, Witnefi- EvUti^es, hearing to the truth ofChrifl in oppofition ^' ^^' to the wayes ofjntichrift in Antichrifti* an times, This is the work of our Ge- neration. Good lack! That the World fhould be thus turn'd upfide down: That their hands (houid be lately at the work; that the Carpen- ters * jhould heatvpork in eiwry part * Mr. v^ndpi cf the Kingdom to cut of the homes: foreTe ^" and now they (hould have no work ^^y';J^^- but for their Mouths y Witnefi- hearing ? »?• work vs all the bufinefs ! ftrange ! The work of the time, faid Mr. Bridge above zo. years ago, ts to meafure the Temple, "^^ ^^y , we are upon the work *^i\^,^,i^ of Reformation, building the Temple, He faw the meafuring line in the Par- liaments hand ; yea, the Stones were going to be laid, and all the fear was they fliould not ly even. But now allisvaniflied,anew Vifion appears; the Church is hidden, the Inner- Court is not to be feen, and the Holy m city h'jz A Continmtion of city is ({ill trod under foot, and they are got no further than Witneffing- work. Then the work vpm cafl out the ^ Gentilesy "^ and now the Gentiles re- nnain within, and the work u only to * seaf. witnej? againfi them. "^ this is the work 112. ' ^' to which a thoufand years of Glory and Comfort is^ promifed, This is the work ; witnefs- hearing to the Truths of Chriji, in oppofition to the wayes of Antichrifl ; as he tells over and over in his Jate se^Truti?s!^Sermons. ^ Do you not wonder at this ; tliat the Work was fo long ago to cafi out the Gentiles and the word bdbrc the was given forth, * up and he doing Parlp. 17. ^^^ ^^ itfuUy, Cur fed is he that doth the work of the Lord negligently ; and with-holdeth his hand from fhedding of Bloud : But now they are only Wit- tJejfing and waiting for the power to turn the fiill Nations into War and hlood ? N, c. They are grown very hum- ble. C. No, This is but a new proof of their infuflferable Pride. They will not ingenuoufly acknowledge their the Friendly Debate. I 75 Errors. They are ftill as bold and confident in prophecying from the KeveUtion as if they had never been miftaken. And you feed and incou- rage their Prefumption, while you admire thefe Dreams ; and fuffer them to lead you quietly by the Nofe backward and forward, juft as they pleafe. The Caufe of which I doubt is your Pride too ; who are refolved not to be adiamed of your vain hopes, nor abate your confidences ; but fur- rounding your felves with Prophe- fies and Promifes, to harden your faces and look as boldly upon us as ever. The world muft not think you have mifled the Mark : but only fup- pofe you have received 0, fart her light y and that the mind of God is more ful- ly revealed; and that now you have found certainly in the Revelation whereabouts we are. Or rather, ma- ny of this fort make no reflecftion upon what is pafl:. Anew Fhrafe is able at any time to blot out all re- membrance of former things. Let them but get thh by the cnd> and there i-yj. A Contimatm of there is no other talk; no other thoughts. Away go all Objecftions and Difficulties, all doubts fcruples and fears : All fad thoughts if they , have any, vanifli as foon as they hear this ; and you may quiet them with it when you will, as you do a Child with a Rattle when itcryes. Lord, fay they, it is Witnesfing'time, How fliall thy poor Creature go through this Witnesfwg'VPork ? Alas ! Chri- ftians, fayes anothdf when he meets his Friends, we are fain into the Wit nef^ing'd ayes: Bear your Teftimonyi Fear not their faces : only let your s^^onabie Teftimony agree. If you would bear irmths^p. Witnef?, unite your Te/limo.'jy. O, it 124. 125. . Ji , I / I- • -^ 1. IS a jack-cioth condttton, replies a Third, Let us mind the duty of afack- cloth condition, let us vpear our fack- cloth handfomely, I, and then faith a Fourth, Chrifl rr ill pay all the charge that you are at in Witnefi-hearing. If a man have afuit at Law 9 and have 5. Qr 6. Witnejfes, and carry them an hundred mile, he hears all the charge of their Witne(i'bearing. Saith Chrtfi, the Friendly Debate . i n j / will give power to ej?lf T Witnejfes, they are ^MT Witneffes, Te arc Chrifts WitneffeSf and look whatfoever charge you are at 9 he will hear the charge ; he will hear all the charge of your Witnef^'beartng, jind therefore be faithful in your IVitnefi hearing. In this manner they are lul'd afleep, and tickled out of the remembrance of all things paft. Nothing elfe comes into their Minds, nothing in* to their Mouths , as long as the ftrength of thefe New Phrafes laft. And their Minifters having found the admirable power of them, and how they ftick in their Fancies, and work there, and wholly poffefs them; they will not fail to furnifli them with good ftoreofthem, when there is occafion. And fliould they buft change a certain Word now in ufc, into one of thefe Phrafes I believe it would help to do their bufinefs very cffecSlually. AT.C. You will not teach them fure in this Art. What do you mean? C, Preachr 1^5 -A Continuation of C. Preaching you know hath been a Word long in ufe among us, and no body needs be told what we mean by it. But this being an oldPhrafe there were fome that grew weary of it, and changed it into Teaching. And for fome time, who taught to day? was the Phrafe. But this growing common fell into diflike too; and fo they called it, Escercife- ing. And when this became ftale alfo and pleafed them no longer, then I remember, fome called it LeBuring, But this would not take, and fo Speaking became, in a manner, the only Word. And among the moft pure the queftion ftill was, who Speaks here this Morning ? But af- terward this was changed too, into, who holds forth ? and what was held forth hy him to day? A great many more fuch Alterations it's like you can remember, who are better ac- quainted with thefe matters than L But I was going to tell you, that if any man Ihould have the conceit to call it Witnejiing, or Profhefywg ; and this the Friendly Debate. \nn jthis phrafe Ihould get among them, who Witneffes to day in fuch a Con- gregation ? or who Prophefies in your Meeting ? or will you go hear Mr. J. B, C, he4r his Itfiimony to day ? No doubt it would take wonderfully; and make a Rabble run like mad to hear what new thing , this IVitnefi- bearing is. For fuch is the fillynefs of this people, that they imagine with every new phrafe^ there is fome new thing to be learnt ; and that the old Preachers are nothing to the nerv teachers ; and they who hold forth have fomething more to fay, than he that only Speaks, And therefore what will they fancy there to be in Prophejyingy :ind Witnefi- hearing? no- thing lefs, I warrant you, than a clear Difcovery of the things that lay hidfrom Ages and Generations; the opening of Seals ; the numbring of the years, and unlocking all the Se- crets of the Revelation. And though they underftand never a word, yet they will believe themfelves marve- loufly inlightned, when they are N well i I ng A Continuation of well ftuft with phrafes: and are able to talk of Generation-work, Witneffing- times , jhutting up Heaven and com- manding that it rain not ; turning ths waters into blood, andfuch like things : cfpecially when they can fancy them- felves to he Witnejfes and to have Povper v.seafon. ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ prophej} , and to fend fire Truths p. out of their mouths to devour the Jdver- ' ' faries. This is comfortable Dodlrine f indeed; that they can but open their mouths, and out come fcortching and devouring Judgments , at their prayers y to hlaft and deftroy us all. If this fancy get into their heads, it will be fure to keep them in heart, and blow up their furious Zeal to a greater Heat. And if ever they chance to reflecffc on the mifcarriage of their former hopes wherewith they were big , they will then have a trick ready at hand to falve the bufinefs, that it fhall not difcourage their pre- fent confidence. It was only becaufe they were not hot enough , and did not open their mouthes wide enough, and breath forth fiery and devouring prayers ' the Friendly Debate . I 'y 9 prayers againfl: the Enemy. And therefore now they will call to one another as Mr. Bridge teaches them"^, & u6'^'^' and fay, Chrifliansy U there a IB ire) a Fire in your mouth ? O you that have any credit in Heaven j pray now. What ? Doth fire come out of the mouth of the mtnejfing people of God to devour their Enemies, and vpHI you flout your mouth and not pray ? Oyou that are witnejfes, now open your mouths; for fire proceeds out of your mouths to devour the ene- mies that hurt the witnejjing people of God ; Open your mouths wide ; and you that never prayedy pray now. Thus they open their mouths; but fhut their eyes , and will not fee how they have been deceived. They maintain their confidence by thefe Arts ; and are all agreed in this, ne- ver to agree with us. They muft have war with jimalek for ever. And M^^nner of though they have many differences ^ ru1?i. p.^ as Mr. Bridge acknowledges , and are ^°^' divided into many opinions and perfwa- fions , yet if they agree in this one thing 5 which is the main, to unite N 2 their i8o A Continuation of their Teftimony againft us, it is enough. This fliali bear up their Spirits, and make them hope though they clafli and jarr in a thoufand things. Let but their witnefs againft us agree, and their hearts fliall not fail ; but they fliall ftill talk as if they were infallible. N. C. I was loth to be fo uncivi,] as to interrupt you too much in your carreer : but you have drawn your difcourfe to fuch a length , that it would weary your Friends ^ were they here, as much as vex your Ene- mies. C. I did not intend fo many words : But my thoughts ran fo nimbly be- fore me in this Argument, that feel- ing no wearinefs in my felf, I never refledled how much I might tire you. Pray pardon me. M C. Well it's done now : And I will not begin it again by making any refledlions on what you have faid. But this I muft needs fay, that Mr. Bridge was always held a very preci- oHs man , one that hath a deep infight into the Friendly Debate. i8i into the things of God ; much in- lightned in the knowledge of the My- ftcries of Chrill , and of long expe- rience in his ways ; and therefore, I confefs, I much wonder at thefe things, and am troubled that he Ihould write on this fafliion. Yet fay what you will, there are thofe who will follow and admire him. C. Do you think I am fo fimple as to doubt of it ? when 1 confider , as a French Gentleman once faid , how i there are fcarce any kind of Beads which hath not heretofore been ado- red among Idolaters ; nor any Dif- eafes incident either to Body or Mind, whereunto Antiquity hath not eredVed Temples ; what ihould make me wonder at fo fmall a thing as this, that divers men have thofe in high efteem who are no ways deferv- ing. It is no marvel if fimple peo- ple hold fots in high reputation, fince they have addreflfed their Incenfe to Jpes and Crocodiles, There are thofe, I have been told, who prefer the neighing of an HorfC/ before the N } fwcct- L': 1 8 2 ^ CominmHon oj fvveeteft and moft mufical voice of finging men and finging women : and others that have thought the fmell of Garlick to exceed the beft perfumes , , why fliould I think it ftrangethen if there be fuch men found as are more moved with the knocking of hoops, and the vpalioppings of milk and fuch like Sounds; than with the ftill voice of the cleareft and moft harmonious Reafon ? In fhort, I am not forgetful of the Proverb, that the Purblind if King in the blind mans Country, N. C. I lookt when you would bring forth a Proverb again. G. And is it not fignificant? I think it deferves to ftick in your mind more than any of yourP^r^- fes. N, C. But 1 always thought, what- ever you judge of us otherways, that you had all allowed us to be the moft knowing people in the Land. C. Yes ; in your own conceit : But otherwife you have difcovered the greateft folly. For you would never hear Inftrudtion : but alway tickled your the Friendly Deflate. i g ^ your felves with this fancy that you had the work of God in hand ; and that what you defigned was the very mind and counfel of the Lord ; who would never let it mifcarry, but bring all your thoughts to pafs. Other- ways , you need not have been in this condition wherein you are. For I can tell youwhoforewarn'dyouofit in Print five or fix and twenty years ago, and bad you take notice of thefe words; If it jh all come topa(^ that in point of Reformation what formerly was proffered by the Soveraign and refufed by the Subject , fl^all hereafter be reque- fled by the Subject and denied by the So- 'veraignj we fhall have leifure enough to admire Gods jujlice, bemoan our own condition , and inflruB our pofierity not to outftand good offers ; lefi for want of feeing their happinefi, they feel their own mifery. But you have no fpare moments , it feems , to admire any thing but your felves : Nor to be- moan any thing but that you do not ftill ft in heaveny the place of Judi- cature , to which you thought your N 4 felves 184 '^ Continmtion of '| felves advanced. And are fo far from inftrudling pofterity in any true wif- dom , that you would have them think the greateft happinefs we can ^j next defire is to fee the fiill nation ' turnd to war and blood. The old fay- ing was , that if things were to he done twice , all would he wife ; but you N, C. Pray leave of your old fay- ings, We do not underftand matters of Policy and humane Wifdom : but in the things of God fure you will not deny us to have a fpirit of dif- cerning more than other folk. C. In the Revelation you mean, and the ancient Prophecies : In Wit- t7e fling' work, and the work of the Gene- nation. In which indeed you have difcovered a marvellous skill ; and ihown that you can fee as far (you will needs have it farther) into a Mil- ftone than other men. A^C I am fufEciently convinced that we know no more of thofe fe- crets than you : But there are a great many other you knew befide thofe, in which the Friendly Debate] 185 which it was ever thought we were well feen. C. Now perhaps I g;uefs at your meaning. You have great skill in expounding tlie Works of Provi- dence, though not in interpreting Prophecies : and can give the reafon of thofe misfortunes which befall fome particular perfons ; contrary to the exprefs fentence of our Saviour, N, u Thofe very words of our Saviour deter us from pafling ra/h Cenfures. C. Do they fo i How came Mr. Vicars then profeflfedly to handle this Argument ) and not only tell ftories of Gods hand upon Malignants ; but exprefly affirm, this was a direS t^um^. judgement of the Lord for defperatef^^l^^^ ^J\taligfiancy ; and that, a clear evi- ^l^ff^ dence of Gods undoubted indignation^ ?^\n^cod* And now how came Mr. John White to licenfe this defperate Book ; but that you thought you might do any thing to promote the caufe, becaufe it was the caufe of God ? This makes you I g 5 A Continuation of you ftill compofe Prophecies to amufe the credulous ; and fill the Nation with the noife of Prodigies to fct the timerous into a fit of trembling. When your troubled imaginations prefent you with a throng of difmall thoughts ; then you thunder out judgment againft us ; and when any unufual thing befalls any of us ; then youinftantly cry out; fee the hand of God : behold how theLord plagues them for our fakes. You know I do not lye. There are two or three whole Books writ fince the Kings re- turn, that will witnefs againft: you, if you fliould gainfay me. And fo would Mr. Vicars ; who hath nothi ng to aflFrighten Neuters withal but fuch tales as this ; that a certain Malig- nant being filled with terrors on his death-bed repented of his crime ; ob- tain'd afTurance of Pardon from the Lord ; faw Chrift himfelf in a Vifi- on , who told him he had a caufe on earthy and that the Parliament of Eng- land defended /V, and fhortly none of thofe wicked Minifters , that had mif- the Friendly Debate] 187 miflcad Gods people, ftiould be left among them. M C. I renounce all thofe Books ; and hate that the caufe ftiould be fer- vcd with fuch ftories of Gods judge- ments. C. \ wifh it be becaufc Chrift taught you better, and not meerly becaufe experience hath a little in- ftrucfled you, that this weapon may be turned againft you , and wound your fide as well asotirs. Imyfelf could tell you Arrange but trueMif- fortunes that have befaln fome of your way ; which I will not interpret to the juftifying of our caufe or the condemning yours. I will only re- member how you were wont to cla- mor,if any man took notice of unufu- al calamities upon any of you; and to cry Blafphemy , Blafphtmy : though you were fo prone to cry Providence^ Providence when the like betided any of us. Mr. W. Bridges for inftancc, when the converted Gentleman fpoke pf fome remarkable ftrokes upon Anfucrro three great perfons, whofe names I ^^^tl^p,^?''' will 1 88 A Continuation of will not fo much as mention, re- plyed in a great pafllon ; Surely, were not pr oph arte ne^ and hlajphemy astoyes 4nd trifles among you, yen durji not Jpeak, much lefi print fuch hlajphemies Of thefe. Solomon faith , that all things fall alike to all, and the fame condition {in regard of outward things ) is to thejufi as to the wicked : ^s is the goodfo is the finner ; and he that fw ear- ethy oi he thatfeareth an Oath : there is one event to AIL For my part ; I embrace this Docflrine with all my Soul ; for a greater than Solomon hath taught me not to conftrue events ac- cording to my own fancy, and as will beft promote and juftify my opinion : only I wifh, you would not alter your mind when the perfons are altered; and make one rule for us and another for your felves. N. c. No. You and I are well agreed in this. C, Thank you for nothing. When you fee that which you took to be a Jharpfword prove but a wooden Dagger, you throw it away. Such is the great wif- the Friendly Debated i2p wifdom and knowledge you brag of. You firft furioufly lay about you, not regardihg whether you hit friend or foe ; and when you have hurt both alike, then you repent and fay you will do fo no more. I pray God you be as good as your word. But I much fear you will prove like King Saul, who when he hc:ird David was in Keilahf faid, Now God hath delivered him into my hands, for he is fliut in a City that hath Gates and Bars. And though he faw he was deceived yet grew never a whit the wifer ; but when his Enemy was in a New ftrait, concluded again that God had in- trapped him, and would not let him cfcape his Vengeance : According to the old faying. They that have forward defires fall into Dreams, al- though they do not deep. i\r. C. We have done I aflure you, with expounding the meaning of Gods Providence : and fliall not pry any more into his hidden Counfeb. C. Very good. What piece of knowledge then have you to brag of more 'ipQ A Continuation of more than others ? Unlefs you mean fome fecrets which you keep to your felves : Special and extraordinary Ex- citations y and Chriftian Inj^irations to make a Reformation mthout the calling of the Supream Magifirate, as Mr. Saltmarjh*s words are: An inward call from God giving you leave to break his Law, or as Mr. Bridge ex- preflesit, to make a change, but not in a legal way. This I confefs is a trick, but no fuch Myftery : a new device but no great Secret. There is none of us all but can eafily learn it ; and that we do not, is not becaufe we have not fo much Wit, but becaufe . we have more Confcience. N,c* No body ever pretended to fuch knowledge. C. Yes but there did. Mr. Salt- mar/h confefles that the early fetting forth of private men in the work of Reformation is apt to exceed to a ^^,^^ tumultuous motion : Yet for all that (Qnuv.vni- he would not put them fo far behind, 04 dedicSc'd'to ^^^^ ^^9' y^(?^W Ijy like the Lame and jheAiien> the Difeafid at the P(?o/ t/Bethefda, IV ait" , the Friendly Debate ] tgi n ait i fig till a Supreme Power come among them- *^No, there are many ''publick ingagements which they *^ are capable of, and which ^'Providence will often guide them «'unto: as in finding Ow^-Tr^^j offa- ^' cilitatiotj, and advancements for ^^ the bufinefs ; befide fo7ne other Ar- *^ cana, andfecret Preparations. What thefe Out-wayes were, into which a man might lafh and fo skip over many difficulties, he leaves us to guefs. You may be fure they arc not the Common high road of the King of Heaven; as the Reply tells him. His jircana alfo he keeps to himfelf, as if he was one of Heavens clofe Com- mittee, and fo bound to Secrecy. But the moft likely perfon to dif- clofe thefe Myfteries and reveal the Arcana ( if he be not fworn to fecrecy too ) is Mr. Bridge ; of whom you may enquire. And perhaps he will think himfelf much beholden to you for teaching him a New Phrafe which he hath not yet ufcd; Out-way es of Facilitation of the great and hard work Ip2 A Continuation of work now at hand. Thefe Out-wayes will do knight- fervice, when they come to the bufinefs of reftraining the higher powers, and turning the ftill people to war and blood. N^C. You are refolved I fee to lead me out of my way ; and to take one occafion or other to divert me from the main bufinefs. C. We are in our way yet. But I was going I confefs to lead you to the dancing on the ropesy and then indeed you might have taken occafion to complain. N, C. I think you are out of your witts. Can you tell what you was going to fay ? C. I was thinking with my felf, what 0«^1r^^eJ the dancers upon the ropes could find ; to whom Mr.Br/W^ compares Reformers. They have no Out'Wayesi\xxQy but what may indan- ger to lead them out of the world. MC. Would you would reft a. while and take a nap : For I doubt you have heated your Brain by this long difcourXe, and fo begin to talk idlely. C.I the Friendly Debate. 193 » C. I underftand my fclf well enough ; and call to mind that I fliould indeed have faid, Walking { which is more becoming the gravity of Reformers ) not dancing on the Rope. For his words are thefe (when he is exhorting the Parliament to lay the Stones of Reformation with moft cxadlnefs ) Tou fee that when a ^^^ sermon ht walks upon the Rope, he carrieth a pole Tore the in hif hand to [way him, and he looks di- zg.Ncv. ligently to hiifeety hecaufeifhefail heli"^^'"^' ^^ cannot mend his mifcarriage ; Jnd 1 Ifayy that in this nork of Reformation if I there he the leaft Jlip, it will he a hard \ thing to recover it, when once a nation \ is fetled in that mifcarriage. Surely therefore the work is to he done with the moft exaSinefi, N.C: Well, and doth he not fay true. C. I /hould indeed have confidered, that Out'wayes are only to facilitate your getting the work of Reforma- tion into your hands : when you are about it, then Out-wayes arc dange- rous. All muft be done by the RuU O and ig^ A Conmmtion of and by hirje (or in a new phrafe by Kopc ) according to the Word. In brief; 1 recolledl now that this is th^'Out-vraying timej in order to thofc better times of Walking upon the Rope. But 1 pray what was it that I diverted you fronn ? N, C. O, now I fee you are come to your felf. And will you then ever hear me fpeak a Sentence or two more 1 thank you for this fmall filence. You have fnapt, of late, at my words too haftily ; and cut me fliort in what I was going to fay ; which was plainly this. We obferve the Multitude that run in your way to be a company of blind Ignorant Creatures, that have fcarce a drachm of the faving knowledg of Jefus Chrift, and the Myfteries of our Re- ligion. Nor do they care to know thefe things ; but only content them- felves to come to Church and fay their Prayersy and learn their Catechifm, and hear perhaps a Sermon, which they prefently forget. Whereas our People are very inquifitive after know- (he Friendly Debate. lp| knowledge^ and can difcourfe rarely of matters of Religion, and repeat Sermons; and befides are very care- ful to know the pure Gofpel way of Worfhipping God. And, truly, when I confider things well, I cannot but wonder how fottifh many of your Conformable creatures are, who ne- ver fcruple any thing, and would without all doubt conform to the grofleft Superftition and Popery ; mould it be injoyned. But we are very tender, and follicitous as you your felves confefs to have pure Ordi- nances, and to know the very mind and way of God. C. I perceive you have little or no^ thing more to fay of this matter ; therefore I pray let me tell you what I think. I cannot deny that many of our common People are very Igno- rant : Nay, they themfelves are fen- fibleofit and will confefs it. But I muftadd; that yours are generally Ignorant too, only think themfelves very knowing. Now which of thefe think you are the worfe ; they that O 2 are 1^5 ^ Cominrntion of are Ignorant but humble and void of fe If- conceit ; or they that are as Ignorant , but very Froud and con- ceited of their Knowledge ? Nay bold and confident of their own skill, taking upon them to inftrudl their betters , to difpute with our Mini- fters, and that as if they were their Equals if not Superiours ; without any relpedt to their learning or of- fice ? For 1 mufl: tell you withall, that as to their duty towards God and man ; a great number of thofe, on whom you beftow only your pit- ty, and efteem Ignorant creatures; have more underftanding , at leaft more confcience than many of thofe that figh over them. They are more reverent in theirDe- votions and addrefles to God ; more refpedtful in their behaviour to his Minifters ; more obedient to their Governors ; more humble and mo- deft before all their betters ; and, as far as I can fee, more juft and chari- table toward all men : And therefore are in a better difpofition to learn more the Friendly Debate, \ p n more and incrcafe in knowledge,than your prating felKconceitcd people. And if there be fuch Kffe(5ts as thefe of the little knowledge that you def- pife ; and few better fruits than talkativenefs , malepert contradidli- on of their Elders , cenfuring and contemning the ignorance of o- thers, from that great high know- ledge which you boaft of, I would fain know which of thefe you judge are like to be moft faving. But of thefe things perhaps we may have oc- cafion to difcourfe fome other time* As for the Reft; I flatly deny that your people are more knowing. For I of thofe that are the moft earneft for pure Ordinances , Gofpel-wor/hip, and cry out upon owthiturgy y nay abhor it, as 'Superflitioui, Popijh, Idolatrous, &CQ, there is not one in an hundred that knows what thofe words mean. Be but fo true to your fclf and ftudi- ous to underftand men aright, as to ask the next you meet, and bid them deal plainly and freely with you, what Popery, Superftition oiWillwor' O 3 {hip, ip8 A Continmtion of Jhip is; and I doubt not you will find they are like a company of Piggs run- ing after an old Sow (which falls a grunting) fqueaking, and making a fearful cry they know not for what. A" C You ufe a very homely fimi- litude. C, It may pafs well enough in common talk, and was the firft that came to hand to reprefent the rude and fenfelefs noife which the multi- tude make with thofe words, only by imitation. ]\F,C, But you compare them to Swine. C, No. I only compare their cryes together, which are bothalike un- reafonable. Do but ask for inftance what they mean by Popery : and fome of thefe Ignorant Zealots will tell you, it is to do that which tspradlifed in the Church of Rome : Which is no better than the voice of a Brute. If this be Popery , all our Religion is Popery. We muft turn Jews , or Turks or Pagans, that we may not be the Friendly Debate. \99 be Papills. And yet that will not Jo neither ; for this Popery will ftill be found among us , that we pray and give thanks to God, which are acftions common to all the world with the Church of Rome. JSf. C. You need not have fpent one word to confute fuch a grofs con- ceit as this. C. True. But this fottifh Defini- tion of Popery you will be fure to meet withall from fome, if you will but take the pains to enquire. Others it's like will tell you, that it is Pope- ry to do any thing after that manner that the Papijis do : and then we muft never kneel , nor lift up our ' eyes or our hands, nor meet together in a Church J\f.C. Why do youfetcht fuch a figh? C. I figh to think of the intoUer- able blockiflinefs of thofe people that will pretend to know all the Myfte- ries of God. For others, who think therafelves more wife than the rett; will tell you that to ufe any cere- O 4 moi 2 o o A Contimation of momes in ufe among them, is certainly Popifli. And then we muft ufe none at all (and fo make no outward ex- prefllon of Religious devotion^ which muft be done in fome manner or o- ther) or elfe they muft be fuch as are Qonfefledly abfurd and ridiculous. Nay all civil Ceremonies and Cu- ftomes will be forbidden us in time by thefe men : at leaft for every thing that they hate, this fhall be the name^ Popi/h, ^ntichriftian, or Ea- hylonifh. For O.G. himfelf I well Trueeata= remember could not be carried to his ieg^eP-n- grave without their clamours; that it V!as a needlefSychargahle, Popijh, fu- neral folemnity , becaufe there was hldck Velvet , a BeJi of State and a Waxen Image. Nay let Monarchy look to it felf , for that is Popijh and jin- tichriflian too in fuch mens opinion, and this Kingdom one of the Ten Homes of the Beaft. And down {hall my hord Major go alfo ( when they are able) as an Image of that Gor *vernmentj together with all the pomp and foolery which attends him; as their words formerly yvere. JN". C I the Friendly Debate. 201 i\Z! C. I hope there are no fuch dan- gerous perfons now among us. C. It's well if there be not. But you will certainly find fome who will tell you, that all Ceremonies invented by the Pope are Fopijh; and think themfelves much wifer than their Neighbors, if upon this ground they furioufly rage againft our Church. Butthe beftofit is, that this is no- thing to the purpofe : For none of ours were invented by him. The Grofs was ufed among Chriftian peo- ple long before the name or power of the Pope was heard of: and fo was kneeling; and white garments, and bowing the body in adoration of our Blefled Saviour. i\r. C, But I have heard fome fay, that it is Popijh to do any thin^ of thif nature hut what U frefcribed by the Word. C. Thisisasfottifhasall the reft. For it fuppofes, both that nothing may be done in or about the worfliip of God, but what we have a Com- mand for in Holy Scripture; and that 20 2 A Cmtimation of that the Pope and his followers, are the only perfons who have done any thing not prefcribed there. Elfe why Ihould they call it Fopijh, or Romijhy more than Fatriarkijh, or Greeki/h ? Ni c, h not the fuppofal true ? C. No. All the ancient Chriftians did many things in Divine worfiiip appointed by the Scriptures, for which they had no particular pre- fcription there. Nay, fuch is your Ignorance, you your felves do fo too and never mind it. For what diredli- on is there to make a new prayer twice or thrice a day ? and one Prayer before the Sermon and another after ? to receive the Sacrament of Chrift's body and bloud in the morning and not after Supper ? to deliver it into the hands of every perfon that re- ceives it, with prayer for him, or Exhortation to him, or both ? N.c* Prayftay. You will let no- thing at all be Popifh if you be let alone: at leaft nothing of this Na- ture • C7. Yes. the Friendly Debate. 203 C. Yes. We are taught by our Divines, that, to ordain fuch a mul- titude of Ceremonies, as will imploy moft of our thoughts and care in time of Divine Service how to do them aright; deferves that name. Or if we make any of them an eflential part of Gods worfhip, or give them power to obtain pardon for us, or work grace in us : or, laftly, if we make them Apoftolical and neceffary Commands that bind the Confcience as the Laws of God do : then call them Popiflo and Jntichriftiany or what youpleafe. N. C You fay well : and I confefs I know a little more than I did. C. O that you would help to re- duce thofe filly, and many of them I hope well-meaning foules, who through mere Ignorance and blind prejudice are departed from the grave andfober way offerving God among us, to follow their own vain fancies ; and perhaps conceit they arc Witnef- fng againft Popery and the wayey ofAn- tichnft ; that is, againft they know pot what N. C. I 2 04 ^^ Continuation of i\r. C 1 am not come fo far yet ; nor hold my felf able to Witne(i a- gainft fuch perfons; but this I can fay, that all is not Pe?/?^>7 which is fo called. C. Nor Superftition neither. Though with the fame doltifh Igno- rance, they charge us with that vice which they are moft guilty of them- felves and do not know it : as appears by what i told you at our laft meet- ing- N, C. They like not your definiti- on of Superftition. C. That's becaufe they like no- thing that we fay : and becaufe it makes them fo plainly guilty of that which they condemn. But do they like Mr. Cahins definition of it bet- ter f N.c. What is it? C You may have met it's poflible with his Inftitutions yiot they have been long in the Englifli Tongue . There he tells you almoft in the beginning of the Book, that as Religion hath its name from ^/W/V^^, andisfet as con- trary the Friendly Debate^. 205 trary to wandring Liberty ; becaufc it binds men up,and prcfcribcs bounds and limits to them, in which true Piety confifts: So Superftition hath its name from going beyond all mea- fures'y being a humour that will not be bounded nor limited ; or as his very words are J, that not being content- ed with the manner and order frefcrib- edy heapeth up together a fuperfluous fjumber of vain things. Do you like this, I fay, or no? If you do; then I will fhew you that as in Prayers, fo in other holy Duties, your humour is to keep no meafure nor order, but to heap up one fuperfluous thing upon another : No fct Form can content it, no limits or bounds can hold it; but it is ftill inventing fomething new to pleafe your felves and others ; and then you fancy God is pleafed, becaufeyouare. I know you have a j conceit that you keep your felves within the limits of the word, and that you dare not for a world ftir be- yond the confines which God pre- icribes : but this only makes your Ig- norance 20 6 -A Contimationof norance appear the more grofs, as I will plainly fliew you. M C. I guefs by what you faid the laft time whereabouts you will be ; but it will turn us too much out of our way to enter into that difcourfe at this time. C. Well then, He let it alone till you give another occafian. And the rather, becaufe I would have you go as foon as may be and ask what Wtll- wor/hip is? That's another word in thefe Witnejfes mouths, of as much efficacy and as little fenfe as all the reft ; for when they are angry, they charge one another with it as well as us. The Independents were wont to fay that it was Will-worfhip to fct up the office of Ruling Elders in the Church : And I can fhew you one that calls the Church Covenant^ re- quiring men to give fome figns of grace, and call the way oiAdmiffion of Mem- bers into Independent Congrega- tions, by the very fame Name. And therefore I believe you will foon leave fuch to wrangle it out ; and go and ask the Friendly Debate J 207 ask fome others, what they mean to bawl fo againft Forms. But I believe there is not one of a thoufand can give a reafon, why he may not as well accufe the whole frame of Na- ture as our Liturgy upon this ac- count. Efpecially if you tell him that there is nothing in Heaven or Earth but hath a Form. That when we underftand it is by forming fome conceptions in our Mind ; and that we form our Speech or words to make our conceptions underftood by o- thers. And therefore even your Pray- ers muft be in a Form, or elfe they are fenflefs ftuflf ; a meer noife and found that no body can underftand. N, C. We are only againft fet Forms. C. And fo many of your Prayers have none at all ; but are then thought moft heavenly, when they are moft confufed ; and to have much of God in them when they have nothing of Man, For the common word is, 1 like not Forms, &c. He ftill fticks in Forms : he is a dull formal man : which 2o8 -A Continuation of which are Phrafes as fet and ftinted as our Prayers. They are never out of ufe, but repeated an hundred times a day. No repetitions they think are bad, but only of the fame Pray- ers ; nor any other conftant Forms unlawful, no not of railing and revil- ing, but only thofe of Divine Ser- vice. Thcfe they leave to the wick- ed, and take the other to themfelves. N. c. Pray do not fay fo. c. I muft fay more than that. They hate a Form of Prayer, but love to pray in thefe reviling forms of fpeech. Forthey tell God how a Superftitionf and Antichrifiian way of worfhip hath juftled out his own Inftitutions. That men worfhip the Graven Images of their own inventions. That Gebaly Ammorij and Amalek are rifen up a- gainfl: them. And the people are taught to go and f^read their anger and t hre at nings before the Lord: and to tell him that it is an angry timey a perfecuting timet a day of great wrath ; TruSis,p. abundance of anger and wrath, and ha- 180.182. ^^^^ ^^^ malice in the hearts of men againfi the Friendly Debate. 2 o p againji the people of God at thii day : or as Mr. JB. his language is in ano- ther place, "^ JSovf Foptfl? men /?//x;g ' Fuinef? of latd thetr net pnvny for m ; and vre may go to Chrifi and fay, Lord pull m out of the net that they have laid for t&s^ for thou art our ftrength. And, for any thing I can fee, much of that they call the Fower of Prayer confifls in fuch Forms as thefe. N.c, Alas! You know not what that Power is. C, I know it is juft fuch another word as Form, which they ufe with- out any certain fenfe, as they are wont to do the Apoftlel words con- cerning a Form of Godlinef^ VPtthout the Power of it. This Form ofGodlinefi if you will believe fome, is Praying hy a fet Form"^ y and then the Pojr^r of^ Godlinefi, mufl: be praying without ti/MinT^ ^"^- Engl, to the N,c. It cannot be. ^^^^ ^,f"^ C, It is asltellyouo And this is ^"'^'" one of the reafons that the world hate the Saints ; for that the Saints are a praying people: You muft not mif- P take : 2IO "A Contimation of seafona. ^^^^ • Forms of Praj/er they can en- lll^' P* dure J hut the power of Fray er they can- not hear. They are Mr. B. his words. N. c. No indeed, not if it confift of fuch railing language as you fpeafc of: But neither you nor I, it's like, apprehend his meaning. C. Do you know what he means when he gives this for another reafon of the hatred of the world to the Saints; that they defiroy their Gods, defiroy their Idols. Men of all t-hings ^ cannot endure to have their Gods defiroy- ed : now the people of God do defiroy the Gods of the wicked, no wonder there- Cb. p«)$7« f0yg ffjaf; ffj^y are fo provok't againfi the Saints and people of God. N.c. Not I. C. Then you are very dull. He means our Worfliip, which they are wont to rail upon in thofe terms alfo, calling it Idolatry, worlhipping the Golden cahes, and fetting up new Gods : which are fuch rude and beaft- ly clamours, that 1 am loth to foul my mouth with naming them. They are 1 the Friendly Debate^. '2 1 1 are only vile and abominable Phrafes which every Ignorant wretch can ferve himfelf of, when he lift to re- proach his Neighbors. Atfirft the JPreshyteriatJS called Conformity to the Innovations ( as they were ftiled by them ) Wor (hipping the Golden Calves, Afterward the Independents ^^w.can^, called the Diredlory, the golden calvs ^i^^i! ^' of Jerohoamf and affiim'd that this order to help in the way of Worfliip was a breach of the fecond Command- ment. Nay, Mt^ Burton, one of the Witnejfes faid, that to make a Law about Religion was to fet up the Golden Calves, or Nebuchadnezzars Image : Or if you will have another Phrafe for it, to chufe new Gods and n,^ p^ ^. then VPOA irar in the Gates, as an Inde- pendent Preacher faid at Chefler when they were about to chufe Lay Elders. But to be even with them, the Pre s- hyterians threw thofe Phrafes back again in their faces, and askt the five Brethren : Is the Golden Calf of In- depency and Democracy come out of it felfy without Aarons making it ^. Andg.^^^^^^X P 2 in ', "2 1 2 ^ Continuation of in conclufion one IVeh ( as the fame man tells us) called the Scripture it felf ; that Golden Calfy and brazen Serpent which fet at variance King and Parliament,and Kingdom againll Kingdom, and faid things would ne- ver do well, till the Golden Calf and brazen Serpent were beaten in pieces^, ».p"86.^^^No wonder therefore, if the fame man faid, the Scottijh Nation was the Babyloni/h Beafi ^Ih. p. Sj. N. r. I fhould not have been of- fended if you had called fuch men as thefe, beafts, and faid they bellowed or brayed (or what you pleafe)againft your worfliip; Speaking evil ofthofe things, which they know not. But you are not Ignorant, I hope, that we have a more knowing people than thcfe, who are truly Religious and mind ferious things. C What is this to the purpofe. I ask for a P/c^-/^Jc and you bring me 2, Spade, We are not talking of fome fele^H: perfons, but of the Multitude, which I affirm are grofly Ignorant. Yet fince you lead me to it, 1 muft tell the Friendly Debate. 21 j tell you there are Serious as well as Slight/<7///Vj : And I have reafon to think there are divers of thofc who are more fober than thofc we now fpoke of, and pafs for very knowing Chriftians, that have fmall skill in any thing but Phrafes. For what greater token can there be of Igno- rance than either not to underitand what a man means, or elfe to flight and undervalue what he fayes, if he declare the Dodlrine of Chriftianity in plain and fimple words ? A^ay to complain as if Religion were loft and the Gofpel gone, if we leave ofTtheir Forms of Speech and beloved Phra- fes? N, C. iVbw I fcarce know what you mean ? C. Do you not remember what a noifc and clutter there was when Mr. Baxter began to fpeak more intelli- gibly about fome yveighty things in Chriftianity, than others did ? N. C. Yes very well. Some thought he taught a new way of Religion, and led us from Chrift to the Law again. P 5 r.The 2 1 A 'A ContinmHon oj C. The reafon was becaufe he put them very much out of the rode of their Phrafes. This made them fear Chrift would be taken away from ' them ; and free Grace be defpifed , and a Covenant of works reftored. And for the very fame caufe they raife fuch a dull now againft many of our Minifters. They do not hear them talk of getting into Chrifi, and getting 4n inter e^ in Chrifl ; and that for this end they muft get Faith, indigo to the promife, and eye Chrifi inthepromife, and clofe with him in the promife, and lay themfelves flat upon the promife ; and go out of themfelves that the pro- mife may enter : All which you think are very myfterious things, becaufe you are Ignorant ; for let all the fenfe that is contained in any of thefe forms, be delivered in proper plain and cafy words, and you defpife it a§a thing of naught. Though you to.\ko£GoJpel- light, and Gojpel-difco- series, and Goj^el-manifefiations , yet . there is little or nothing all this while to be known or underftood. Re^ the Friendly Debate^. 2 1 r Religion you will have to befuch a Myftery, that if a man thinks heun- dcrftands it, he ought to conclude he is not acquainted with it. It is a certain fign a man hath no skill in it, if he imagine he knows the plain mean- ing of it. It muft be look't upon as a Great fomething'. a thing to be itar'd at and admired,but no body knows what : atleaftyou cannot clearly difcover it to us, notwithftanding alj the brags we hear of light and difcover ies. Hence it is (which is a great ar- gument of their Ignorance ) that great numbers of your Religious peo- ple, have been fo eafily perverted and turn'd to the wildeft Sedts ; when as the cleared Reafon that our men can fpeak will not convince them. What multitudes have foon turn'd \4nahaptifts , Antinomians , Familifis, and Behmenifts ; but how few, and with what difficulty, can be brought to the Church of England ? This is an evident proof to all confidering men that they can be made in love with any thing but only Reafon : And P 4 that 2 1 6 A Continuation of that a Difciple of Jack-pudding fliall lead greater troops after him , than thcgravefi Dhine, They willfooncr liflentoafancy, and are more ready ^ to embrace another pack of new Phrafes ; than the fobereft fenfe and andthewifeft Inftrudtions that can be fpoken. There is a famous and undeniable , inftance of it in the o/Z'^r, and as you think, the Purer, England, Was it not a wonder that the whole Church of Bofton (fome few excepted) pould become Converts on afudden to a daring woman, and be infedted with her damnable Opinions ? And that, find thefe ^^ough they were efteemed. Wife, fo- very words her and well-grounded Chriftians ; and ceedingsof fome ofher opinions alfo had the whole comhoTd^ Current of Scripture againft them ? Nay, ^'J^^^^^^^^; they look't upon her as a Prophet efi 2.1637- a- ( fuchvvere her fpiritual gifts ) raifed gainft Mrs. ^rr^jr-r T / ^ iiutchmfon Up of Godforjoms great work now at P%?tr' ^^«^. ^^ ^^^ calling of the Jews, 8cc. ^s>6^' So as /he had more re fort to her for Coun- fsl about matters of Conference , and clearing up mens Spiritual Eftates, than any the Friendly Debate] 217 atjy t!Mini(fer, {Imightfay all the El- ders ) in the Country, This they im- pute to the craft of this American Je- zabel: but I have reafon to think the truer caufe was the Ignorance of thefe knowing people; who were »4^afily cheated by her new Phrafes, and foft Dodlrines concerning Free Grace, glorious light, and holding forth naked Chrift : efpecially with fuch pre- tended Myfteries as thefe, that, Chrifi v.Mr.wdds ii the Neva Creature ; that we may have nJ^or!^ all graces and yet want Chrift. That 55- 38.48- there can be no true clofing with Chrift in a promife that hath a qualification or condition exprejfed; that conditional promifes are Legal, and therefore no true comfort can he had from them. That to aB hy vertue of or in obedience to a Command u Legal, that to Evi- dence Juftification by SanBification, or graces, favours of Rome, that the Witnefiofthe Spirit is merely immedi- ate, without any refj^eB to the Word, or concurrence with it ; that the Seal of the Spirit is limited to this immediate Wit- nej?, and doth never witnefs to any work of 2 1 8 A Continuation of of grace, or any coticlufions of ours. And finally , that the tmmediate Revelation of my good eflatey without any refpeB to the Scriptures y is as clear to me, m ' the z'oice of God from heaven to Saint Paul. N. C. There was Witchcraft fure in the bufinefs. C. Yes ; of fweet Do5lrines , and glorious phrafes : The pleafing mur- mur o^myjieries, and fpirituality, of immediate Sealing and witnejjing ; of Revelations and manifejiations of the Spirit. Thefe bewitched the wifeji and fobereft and well grounded Chrifli- ans (becaufe in truth they were Igno- rant , and ftood upon the ground of fancy and imagination ) who would have ftopt their ears like the deaf Ad- der to the charms of fober Reafon, fhould a man have charmed never fo wifely. Nor could they ever be dif- inchanted by all the Arguments and perfwafions of all the Miniftcrs in that Country^ hut /he kept her ftrength i^'V^'^^' and reputation, even among the people of God y till the hand of Civil jufiice laid the Friendly Debate] 2 i<^ laid hold of her; and then (he hegan evidently to decline , and the faithful to he freed from her forgeries. So wholefomc fometime is alittlefcve- rity : And fo much is the force of Ci- vil Authority with thefe people, a- bout the fliarpeft Arguments of Di- vines. For they oppofed the Spirit y and their manifeftations and illumina- tions, to all their Minifters Reafons ; which would do no fervice at the bar of the Court of Juftice, where they underftood none of this language. And now I fpeak of the Manifeftati- ons of the Spirit , it is very ftrange to me, that you fhould generally ex- pert the Holy Ghoft fliould do for you what Chrift hath promifed at his parting to the twelve Apoftles; teach you all things , and guide you into all truth. It is another fign of great Ignorance in you, and of infincerity I doubt, in many of your Minifters ; who are afraid to difpoflefs you of this conceit, and toinftrudlyou in the plain difference betweeii thefe times and thofe; but fuffer, if not teach , ^zd A Contimation of teach , you , to apply to your felves whatfoever our Saviour fpoke to the Apoftles alone. A thing which is fo palpable , that I cannot but wonder ' men (hould fo pervert the Scripture ; efpecially when they fee there is no fuch thing, but that thofe whom they account the people of God , are of feveral , nay contrary minds. And that all cannot be in the right, and yet none they think devoia of the Spirit , to teach them all things and lead them into all truth. This fure makes fo many think every ftrong and unufual motion they find within them , is the work and operation of the Spirit of God. And that every place of Scripture that comes on a fudden into their mind , is darted from Heaven and the immediate dictate of the Holy Ghoft : though never fo impertinently applyed to their prefent occafions. And that all the ardent affecftions and tranf- ports, and raptures they have in prayer or at other feafons, are like- wife Infpirations from above; arid that the Friendly Debate^. 2 2 1 that now they are filled wkh the Ho- ly Ghoft. Which is a grofs and ig- norant Gonclufion ^ in my opinion ; for want of fuch obvious confidcra- tions as thefe; that fuch heats and flights are common to them with the Heathen Poets , and excellent Ora- tors ; and that bad men have had them as well as the beft : as I am able to fhew you, if you pleafe. A" C. Some other time if you will ; for we have fpent now a great deal in this kind of dif- courfe. C. Let me tell you notwithftand- ing, that this, 1 believe, is one rea- fon that your people are filled with fomany doubts, jealoufiesand fears of being deferted. When they have not thefe heates; then they think the Spirit is gone ; and how to comfort them , it's hard to tell, till they return again. And now 1 men- tion this, give me leave to tell you it is another evidence of great Igno- rance, that the minds of well mean- ing and honeft-hearted people among you 2 22 -^ Continuation of you are full of fo many fcruples, and fo uncertain what to refolve on all occafions. You may fay perhaps it is, btcaufe their confciences are ten- , der> and very careful and wary what they do : and fo you may fay when you fee a Blind man tremble and walk foftly, and feel his way at every ftep with his ftajff, that he is a very "Wary man; when it is not Caution but his want of light that makes him fo diffident. And indeed how is it poflible they fliould have any true aflurance in any cafe, when it is fo hard, if not impoffible , to be refol- ved in the great queftion of all, What a man mufi do to hefaved, and attain the fatisfaSlion of knowing that he hath an interefi in Chrifl ? To this,the moft admired Divines reply , that a man can have no comfort hut only hy going to the promife. O, but faith the poor Hooker's Soul (according as it is taught) I dare f^m^n^'not fo much as look to the promife, I cSp.'so. ^^^^^* helieve it. To this the Anfwer is(p. Iij*,) Thatam^knjhallneverhe' lieve on thefe terms, if he look to have faith the FrienMy Debate, 223 faith before he go to the promife. For thou muft not have faith and then go to the promife ; but, muft firft go to the Promife for the power of that faith ; from it thou mufi receive power to be- lieve. But then how fhall the Soul go without Faith ? Will a Promife do him any good unlefs he believe it to be the very Word of God, on which he fhould truft ? This is an unanfwerable difficulty, as fj^r as I can find Thefe Divines cannot tell him how he fhould go to the pro- mife fince it is confefs'd he muft go by Faith, and if he look to have faith before he go to the promife , he will ne- ver have it. They only tell him over again {p. 1 1 7.) and if it will do, well and good : Ihat we muft not bring faith to the Promife; but receive faith from it to believe. Thus the poor Soul is fent to the promife for Faith, and back a- gain to faith to lay hold on the Pro- mife ; but how to do that who can tell? It muft firft go to the promife to fetch faith ; and yet how Ihouid it go ; if it have no faith ? In this cafe how 2 24 "^ Continmtion of how fhould a man chufe but be full of fcruples ; and like one that is bcwil- dred and loft, not knowing what will become of him i , N. C. I have read the Book, for it ufes to be one of the firft that is "^ recommended to us , and as I re- member he tells you a little after. How a Soul fhould get to the pro- mife. C. J thank you for remembring me of it. He moves indeed that quefti- on/?. 144. But methinks he only leads a man into a worfe Labyrinth. For thefe are the Rules to he ohferved how the Soul may get to the Promife. Firft, throw off all power and ability in thyfelf. Let the heart lie ftill, till the wind and tyde and promife come 9 and that win carry thee. And yet the 5^- cond Rule ( which immediately fol- lows) is this, which contradicfls the former : Bring the promife home to thy hearty that the promife may bring thy heart to it. How is this poflible ? I would know how to get to the pro- mife;and I am told I muft ly ftill^that the the Friendly Debated -225 the promife may come to me.And yet at the next breath I am fent to bring the promife home to my heart ; which fuppofeslmuft go tofetchit. What a cafe am I in now? What Direcflion can he give me to bring me out oFthefe briers? Why ? To anfwcr this doubt , the only way is to unfay this in the third Rule, which fuppo- fes the Promife will come of it felf, and that I need not bring it home : For it runs in thefe words ; When the. •promife is thus come home to thee, and thou fee fl thefujficiency and the Authority of it ; then aU thou haft to do is this : In the ftr earn of that promife, he carried home to the promife i p. 1 49. N. C. 1 can make no fenfe of it. C, Nor I neither. But the thing he feems to aim at is this ; that a man muft only wait till Chrift aflure him that he had made all the promifes to him. For thus he explains the bufi- nefs. Jacob would not believe that Jofeph was alive till he faw the cha- riots that were come for him. Thefe fcnt from Jofeph to Jacob , brought Q Jacob 2 25 A Continuation of Jdcoh to Jofeph, So every believing ch^Kiiati ^^^^ ^^ P^^^ ^^^^ feeble ; difabled to go drawn to to God and to believe in the Lord Jefus, i48.\so.' Therefore he muft look to the Chaiiots of Ifrael firfi ( it fiiould be of Jofeph ac- cording to the refemblance) and that will convey him fo the promife : and when the chariots are come , get up into them : The Lord Jefus is gone tohea* ven and hathfent thefe chariots for thee; therefore get thee up , and fay Lord, take me up with thee. And fothey did : They got up into I know not what fiery Chariots, and mounted into the Air , and there fancied they faw the Lord Jefus immediately re- vealing himfelf to them ; and fo car- rying them to the promife, theab- folute promife. And I verily believe thefe Docflrines were they from whence the American Jezahel (as- they ,caird her ) extracted her Poi- fons, and by which the people were prepared, todrinkof /^e cup of her fornication ; perfwading themfelves, that a man is united to Chrifi and jufii- fied without Faith; that Faith is not a the Friendly Dehatf] 2i^ receiving him, hut difcerning he hath received him already , that a man is united to Chrift only by the work of the Spirit upon him, without any aB of his, that there is a teftimony of the Spirit and a voice unto the Souly meerly im- mediate , without any refpeB unto, or concurrence with the word* And that there are diftinB feafons of the workings cf the Jeveral perfons ; fo that a Soul may be faid to be fo long under th& work of the Father and not the Sons; and fo long under the work of the Son, and not under the Spirit, jind in con- clufion , that a man is not effedlually converted till he hath full affurance, and that this is given immediately ; all the Activity of a believer being only to aB to fin. Ail thefe, 1 fay, are the plain fenfe (if there be any at all in this Book) of what he delivered in more obfcure words. A^. C Pray go not about to prove this. For cny head begins to turn round already , merely with the fcent of thefe intoxicating ingredi* hum- ^^ ble and peaceable , I judge them ^^ fincere. But there are great num- ^^bers joyn'dwith them, who would '^ be thought the moft eminent becaufe ^^ moft atflive in that way ; who un- <^ der colour of zeal of Gods glory, ^^ hatred of fin , dcfire of fer ving God *^in fincerity; are thruftby an evil ^'Spirit that hath deceived them, in- " to pride, felf love, raflinefs, unnatu- ^' ral affedtion,uncharitable furmifes, ^' and moft unchriftian judgement of ^^ their Brethren. N,C. Methinks you judge, and that very hardly, of others. C. See your partiality ; and that fond Afifedlion you have to your felves. the Friendly Dehau. 24P felves, and one to another. Thofe are none of my words, but were long ago fpoken by feveral Minifters of yours (who had fome fcruples in- deed about Ceremonies , yet never left our Church) againft thofe that feparated from it then , as you do fiorr. Is not this to rejedl that very thing , when it comes out of our mouths , which you readily receive when you hear it from one of your own ? But as to the bufincfs of Judging others , fince you mention it and it is fo much talkt of, I openly declare, that I judge no man in things indiffe- rent ; as you are wont to do , and as the Jews judged the Gentiles , and St.Paul himfelf But it is not indif- ferent whether a man be humble, mo- deft and peaceable or no. Such I maycenfure: who, forinftance, are difobedient to Authority and defpife their Betters and Governors : And it is your great fault to cenfure even thofe that are obedient, and in things which they profefs to believe to 2^0 A Continuation of to be indiflercnt. Is it like good Chriltians think you, to call thofe Superfiitiom, Wil-wor/hippers, Compli- ces cf the Beaft , who declare they do not believe any Ceremony they ufe, to be any part of Divine Worjhip , nor neceffary circumftances of it ; but that they may be altered by Authori- ty, to which they are bound to yield Obedience : and in the mean time to cry out on thofe who reprove you for down-right Oppofition to Authority, for clamour, evil fpeaking, apparent pride and fuch like things ; which the Laws of Chrift judge and con- demn, tell us arc manifefi fruits of the flejh'^ You cannot think fo fure unlefs your underftandings be fo ftrangely blinded by the love of your felves , that the cjearefl: Truth can- not enter, if it fliew you your errors. Indeed if a man merely omits to do thofe things that are commanded; but is not unruly, crofs, clamorous, an oppofer of Laws, a maker of par- ties , and feparate Congregations, nor in any other behaviour unchrifti- an; the Friendly Debate] 2 1 f nn ; I think I ought to leave him to be judged by Chriji , who fearches the fecrets oF mens hearts, and who on- ly can tell whether it be weakncfs of undcrftanding , Intereft , Humour, Love of reputation and fuch like Reafons that keep him from obeying Laws ; or pure Confciencc and in- vincible Ignorance. But if he be turbulent , a railer or reviler y a (lighter of humane Laws and a Blaf- phemer of Dignities ; if he be one that makes Divijlons and Offences^ i, e. Schifmes in the Church ; not I, but the Apoftle judges fuch a man, not to be afervant of the Lord lefm Chri/i, hut of hU own belly. Which that he may provide for , he Qivcsgood words, flatters the rich and the great, -and is. very compliant with all that he hopes to win to be his followers and friends: and he ufes alfo fnr fpeecbes (or as Mr. Tyndals tranflation hath it, fweet preaching ) he praifes and commends thofethat follow him, he fuppofes them to be the people of God, and pretious ones; he extenuates their faults 252 A Contimation of faults and magnifies their good deeds ; and fo deceives the heart of the Innocents (as Mr. Tyndal reads it) or, of the fimple people. Read the place in Rom. 16. 16,17. where the Apoftle not merely bids , but be- feeches them to mark or ohferve fuch rnenasthefe; and tells you for what end ; that they might avoid them. But how is that poflible , unlefs vfc judge that they are unfit perfons for our company; and that walk not accor- ding to the rule of the Gofpel ? jlV. C, But you (hould judge then only for your felf ; and labor to hide and conceal the faults or errors of your Brethren , For Love covers a multitude of Sins, C. ^^ Love is to cover what fins ^' may be covered ; but fome cannot ^*be hid they are fo publickly com- ^' mitted ; and Others may not be ^^ hid though they could ; becaufe ^* the concealment of them will do ^^ hurt to themfelves and others ; to ^^ the publick and the private wealth, f * In which cafe, it were both ao:ainft: Piety, the Friendly Debate. 253 ** Piety , Charity and Prudence to ^^ conceal them. And to that pafs ^^ are things now come among us,that <^in both refpedlsl think your cour- "fes are not to be covered. Fir fly ^' they cannot ; at ieaft in great part, •'being long fince made publick to ^'the world , and daily are more ^' and more , by your own printing, *^ preaching , and private inftilling ^^thern into others. Secondly, they *' may not if they could, feeing by *' forbearance all this while, they *^ have fretted like a Gangrene into '^ the Bowels both of City and Coun- ** try : and I fear we have kept their '* Counfels fo long , that many of *^ them are already paft cure , and we '^almoft remedilefs in our rents ten- Narration '^ding unto Ruin. Nay, do not^^^^ frown, as if I were too ftiarp andfe-S^"'^^""^ vere : they are not my words , but i^d by fome of your own againftthe Inde-'"'^'^'^ ^^' pendant Brethren y and may with as much, or more, juftice be now ap- plied to you all. iVT.C.I j'j. A Continuation of MC. I think there are other cour- fes more dangerous than thofe, that ought to be lookt after. Prophane- tJefi, I mean, is the great thing which both you and we ought to fetour felves againft ; and that, Imufttell you, abounds more among you than any where elfe. C. I cannot tell N. C. What cannot you tell ? whether pYophanenefs fhould be op- pofed by both with the greateft Vi- gour ? C Be not fo fierce. Firft, I can-* not tell whether Prophanenefs a- bound more now , than it did in the days when you reigned. I told You the laft time what the JJfemhly told the Parliament of the fudden growth of wickednefs fince they began to fit. And I am fure it was not checktin the following years; but the feafon- able exhortation of the greateft part of the London ^dinifters complained no longer ago than 11660. of the great Wickednefs broken loofe a- mong us ; (which it feems was chain- ed the Friendly Debate . 2 55 cd and bound up while the Bifliops governed ) and, as a great inftance of it , tell us in the conclulion of that fad lamentation, thot fome (as nc are credibly inform d) are grown to that height of wickednef^ as to worship the Devil himfelf, p. lo. And then, fe- condly , I cannot tell whether the Wickednefs that hath lb much a- bounded beyond that in Elder dayes, be not in great part to be imputed to your felves : For all the time you de- claimed againft the Ignorance and blindnefs of the people, you caft ma- ny fearful ftuajbling-blocks before them (as an honeft5'^jfi/^-m^;/told you fome years agone:) while they could not but fee or hear your fcorn- ful cenfuring and condemning 0- thers ; greedy panting after and gaf- Moumfoi ping at the Riches, Honors, and Pre-^he^"' ferments of this world; fraudulent IJ'-'?^?^^'! Circumventing and over-reaching that <:oun= your Neighbours; cruel revenge upon ^' ' ' ^ thofe you judged your Enemies when you had power ; bitter quarrelling and contending one againft another: and 2^6 ^ Contimatim of and yet notwithftanding all thofe fins , which might have juftly caufed ' you to lye intheduft, they fawyou lifted up r boafting of the glorious times you had made , proudly appro- priating to your felves the honour- able name of Chriftians, Saints and the godly Party. Nay, the people were not fo blind but they could fee how you meafured the Saint {hip of your felves and others, rather by fome private opinions or fmall pun- ctilio's of worfhip; than by the great things of Faith , righteoufnefs and mercy. For they found fome men whofe profefilon of Chriftianity was attended with thefe , accounted no better than civil men ; while o- thers were cryed up for Saints and Godly , who were much deficient in them. Befidcs, your Minifters took no care to Catechife the youth in the Country ; nay , brought that Ordi- nance into fuch Contempt , that to this very day a man is not thought to do his Duty , who fpends ihe after- noons of the Lords day , in that in- fitu^ion. the Friendly Debate.^ 257 ftru5lion. They heard nothing but Orations in the Pulpit morning and evening, and thofe (God knows) very forry ones in moft places. As for the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, a great many honeft hearted people were frighted from it. You made fuch lofty Railes (as he obferves) a- bout the Table , that few or none of the poor people couldcom.eatit: as if you thought it a matter of great piety to confine the Members of Chrifts Body to a little room, and caufe his Death and Paflion to be known and remcmbred only by a few : as if it were an honour to Chrift and an advantage to the world, that his name and memorial fhould perifh from the hearts and mouths of a great part of the people profefling his Name, and ingaged in Covenant to him. Nay, in many places, they ne- ver faw it adminiftred to any at all, for many years : Your Minifters chu- fing rather to deprive themfelves and others, of whom they had d: good opinion of this Heavenly Banquet ; S than gtg A Conmmtion of than afford it to many well-meaning, though no talking people. And fo while they complained of their living in known fins ; they themfelves lived' many years in a notorious omiflion of this Duty. Sometimes indeed they would invite men to this feaft ; but then by their preaching they hindred and difcourag'd the mofl: if not all in a Country congregation ; as if they were too forward to acknowledge the benefits of Chrift , and keep up his remembrance. In fliort, many of them accounted the people no better than Heathens , and upon that fcore would not baptize their children ; and thereby indeavoured to make them fo, and quite thruft them out of the flock of Chrifl;. O that you would all fearch your hearts (as that honeft man faid) to find out the true root of this Spirit of Separation, and obferve narrowly whether under o- ther fpecious pretences or with fomc pious intentions , there were not a bitter root of pride and haughtineft. caufing you to affedt Angularity, and de- th Friendly Dehatil 2 '59 defire to appear alone to the view of men ; thinking it below your worth to be found in Communion with thofe , whom in opinion you have laid fo much below your felves. But let that be as it will ; Thirdly, I cannot readily tell which are worfe, the Fuhlicans and Harlots 9 or the Scribes and Pharifees. This I know, that there have a long time been a great many of the laft, who juftified themfelves and lookt upon all others as abominable. Dr. Buries ^ I remem- *J'S^^^^^ . A , Sana:, un- bcr tells us with a great conhdence, cov.an.1625 that thofe who kept heretofore fuch a f^ce. ^ ^'^' frantick coyle about ceremonies y and thought they never took their level right, hut when at every bolt they {hot , they firuck a Ei/hops cap fheire off his head; were more fant aft ical, Ignorant) Proud, fe If- willed , negligent and deceitful in their particular callings , than many whom they defpifed , and condemn d to hell for Carnal men : of any obferving Eye might eafily difcern. Now what to think of thefe men in compare with the other, let honeft or indulge '* any defire of the flefh : No, I pray *^ the Lord that he would give me and ^^all his chofen grace, to ufe ftill " more fpareingly, the things of the ''body our felves^ that we may im- *'part them more liberally to the ''Poor. May we have grace alfo fo " to obferve our Tongues that even *' a little Idle word do not efcape us, '' but all that is ours may be direcfted '^ to Profit and Edification. I have " written thefe things and annexed "them to my Comments (God ''knows) for no other caufcj, but ^' that I might admonifh the Brethren S 4 " who , 2^4 A Contimatim of "^^ who have the grace to live frugally ^^and feverely, and to be free from '^ outward Offences ; firfi of all, dili- ^' gently to watch the Devil left he '^ infeft them with inward ones : and '^ while he permits them to avoid " thofe external Vanities and Delica- ^^ cies, he brings them in love withiin* " ward and far more mifchievou^ Evils; '^ that is to pleafe themfelves, and to ^"^ delight themfelves in the condemn- *^ing of others; and then to fport *^ themfelves, and play the wantons ^^ idlely in novelty of opinions ; from '^ whence break forth openly, grudg- *^ ings and Hatreds ; then Fadtions, *'' Se£is and unfpeakable Scandals in t^^the Church. That which follows I fliall omit, as not being fo much to my prefent purpofe ( though other- wayes worthy of your notice ) which was to fliew what opinion wife and holy men have had of that Spirit, which now rules in you: and fo con- clude what we are to direct our zeal moft againft and affault with the greateft vehemence. For your part ; it the Friendly Debate. 26$ it is manifcfl: you oppofe Conformity with might and main; and ftudy by all means to keep ui^ the Separation: as for Us; it is your defirc we would fct our felves wholly againft Fro- phanerte(^, and let you alone. But we cannot thus abandon our felves, and throw oflTall care what becomes of our Church. We hate prophane- nefs and are refolvcd to oppofe it ; but we hate Pride and felf conceit and fa(flion and Separation, and we are refolved to beat down thefe too. Andlmufttcll you wichal, that our Blcfled Saviour was more frequent and more fcvere in his reproofs of the Scribes and Pharifees ( how like you and thofe of Mr. Bucers time are to them, let the impartial judg ) than he was of the Publicans and Sinners, Vwnd whatfoever you think now, here- tofore I am fure your Minifters grant- eVthus much, that the Devil gains ^.^^^^^-^^ more by SchifmSy than by coldnef? in agreed up' Religion ; and that he had rather draw Mmiii^^"^ men from their fir jl love to a fiery ^«^ n'i'e'li bv^Mr. indifcreet Zeal, than to lukewarmnef^^^^^^^^y ^266 A Continuation of and indifference. For firfl, hereby h^ ft aggers many others who were well fetled, and makes them childrea, again in underftanding, and turns tnem about with every wind of Do- <5lrine ; and Secondly he deprives thofc men of the happy means of recovery f which they might have eafily enjoyed, had they remained in the feUowjhip of the Church. And would to God you would once more fadly confider, whether thofe many revolts that fince the firft reparation have been made from your gathered Congregations, to monftrous Opinions and filthy Pra- c5lices, have not beena juft Punifli- ment of you, for your too high Va- luation of your felves and uncharita- ble Separation from us. What con- ftrucftion you make of fuch things we know not (they are the words of the oS^^St ^^^^fi ^^^ I mentioned before ) but 'to us that are more Ignorant it feems very ftrange, that whereas you fiHied with fo great a Mafh that fcarce one of a hundred was taken by you and' admitted into your Churches ; out of the Friendly Debate] 26 j of this hundredth part of yours, more fhould be found revolting to abfurd, foolifli, nay pernitious Opinions,than of the Ninety nine parts you left behind. It ought in my poor opini- on to put you into a juft fufpition, and ferious re- examination of that way, from which there is fo eafy a tranfition to fo many dread- ful delufions ; and through which fo many have already pafled over unto the enemy. N. c. Let thofe examine who are moft concern'd in it. My mind is full of fomethingelfe. C. What's that r^ N, C. You have repeated fo often the Schifm ( as you call it ) or Sepa- ration that is made from your Church; that I perceive it is the great thing that (ticks in your ftomack, and which angers and frets you fo much. And indeed Mr. Bridge told us it would do fo, in one of thofe Sermons you mention fo oft. 7he Saints j«^ scaf. Trutia people of God, faith he, they vrithdraw^^^^^^' from the men of the World , and dofepa- rate 2<58 A Continmtion of ' rate from them. Now when we with- draw from men and from their worfjip, we condemn their Worjhip ; and the men^ of the world do not love to condemn. To fepar ate from them and from their Wor- Jhipy thif they cannot bear. The Saints do feparate from them, and therefore there iffucha deal of anger and wrath in their hearts againji them, C. Alas ! Good man ; Doth he think we have fuch an opinion of him and his Saints, as they have of them- fehes? He flatters himfelf too much. It is one thing to imitate the Saints, and another thing to counter- feit them. He fliall never perfwade me that quick-filver is better thani gold ; and that turbulent and affrigh- ted imagination can be a furer guide cither in the choice or exercife of our Religion, than a calm Reafon, and a fixed, wellrefolved Judgment. Let him call himfelf and his party Saints a thoufand times, or as oft as he breathes ; it (hall never move me at all, nor fliall I think the worfe, but the better, ofmyfelffor being none of the Friendly Debate. 269, of them.Let him pride himfclf in new devices , of a different worfliip for the Saints and the reft of the world ; I am very well contented, if they will but mthdravp themfehes far enough from us, and let us be out of the hear- ing of their Gibberifli. Let him lead them to the Indies if he pleafe , and hcfeparated from us by the wide Oce- an ; it will be a great fatisfadlion to enjoy our worfliip quietly * to our felves. Or rather let h._^_ t. * Yet you muft not hope for this; im retire into niS For thevmuftftay to power forth C*.}r^Cf-*- on<4 i-K*inlr no the Vials, which next to the Sepa- CilOlet, anatmnKnO rating from us, is the thing that company in the world provokes the Antichriftian party. *^ ^ 1 r ' 1 • "^^^ "^^y ^^^ ^^ torment the men pure enough tor nim ofthcworld,andmaltethcmgnalli L J.1 ' Ti 1 J their teeth, and bite their tonr"^- but his Books, and no for pain, as he teUs you a Books but his own;his ^^^^' p^' '^^' precifenefs, I aflure him , fliall never trouble me at all And I fuppofe I may pafs my word for our whole Church, that they will not complain for want of his company ; nor think it any difgrace to our Worfliip that fuch do not like it, or perhaps abhor it ; nor any fliame to themfelves that they will have no Communion with us. 270 -^ Continuation of us. There were alwayes people of a morofe and fowr humour whom no- thing can pleafe ; no not what they do themfelves, when once it pleafes' others too. They muft be of a con- trary Opinion to the whole race of mankind : and hate fome things, on- ly becaufe others love them. And therefore if they not only withdraw themfelves from us, but alfoy7/g^^ us and fet us at naught ; the concern is notfo great, as to require my care. Let them call Us the World , and if they pleafe , the Dogs that are with- out the Holy City; I value it no more than the barkings of an angry Cur: Though in his vain conceit of himfelf and party , he imagines we lay their difrefpedl to us mightily to heart.For this you know is another caufe which he is pleafed to affign , why the men of the world are angry with them. Jhe Saints and people of God do not re- gard the men cfthe World; and the men of the World they think fo. Now for high ana lofty men to be flighted and not regarded y this makes them angry. For which the Friendly Debate. 271 which he cites Dan. 3 . and then re- peats it. they cannot hear thif, that they (honld not he regarded, high and great meny that they (hould not he re* garded: and therefore no wonder there u fuch a great deal ofverath and anger in their hearts againfi the people of God, But let him repeat it as oft as he will ; tell him from me, that it moves us not at ail to want their regard; for we do not think our felves honoured by their Efteem and RefpecSl. It is rather a reproach than an honour to be commended and praifed by fuch mouths, as value a compofed counte- nance and a fet of phrafes; more than the moft compofed and regular life, and the beft fenfe in the world. Let them flight us therefore fo much, if they lift, as not to move their hat, or give us the time of the day, or turn their face another way when they chance to meet us; it is all one; we (hall have never the worfe opinion of our felves or of our VVorfliip. We do not think them fo able to judge of true worth, or to difcern between true 2 "7 2 A Contimation of true and falfe, good and bad, as to concern our felves about their Opi- nion : thefe being almoft the fame thing nowadays, and though all un- dertake to judg, yet few know the dijference. We have fomething eife' alfo to fupport us than their favoura ble opinion of us ; and that is,a finc::re care with unbiafled affecflions to fearch after the Will of God ; and a readinefs to receive and do it, when- foever we know it. Let him bring us Reafonsin ftead of confident aflferti- ons, and fee if we will not ftudioufly confider them ; and if they be good yield to them. He fpoke admirably who faid, that our Reafon ought to yield obedience to nothing butRe^fon: and that Juthonty U a yoke which none but God hath a right to impofe upon our judgments. If God fay it, that's rea- fon enough : but we fhall never be perfwaded that they only hear or un- derftand what he fayes. Let them talk as if they had not only flept in our Saviours Bofom ( as 4 Gentleman 1 remember fometime faid ) but even watch't the Friendly Debate] 273 watch't in his heart and foul, and as ifthere were none of his intentions hid from their knowledg: they will never gain the greater credit with us, unlefs we fee more than words and confidence. No though they fhould notonly contemn and fcorn us as al- together ignorant in the things of God, but pronounce Anathema's and Curfes againft us as the limbs of the Apocalyptick Beafl:; Heaven we know laughs them to fcorn, and we fliall fmile at their ridiculous pre- fumption. The Wolves we know will never be reconciled with the Shep- herds flock ; and when we have done all that we can, there will be an en- vious and Malitious Generation, who like the rats and other imperfecft Creatures (which it is poffible were in the Ark it felf ) will ftill be gnaw- ing the reputation, even of thebefi: Church in the World. Every thing under Heaven is abufed ; yea, and what Heaven it felf hath fpoken is not fafefrom Injury and Violence; and therefore why ftiould we look to have T a ^) 274 A Continmtion of a general refpedt, or be caft down or angry eitlier at the negledl of thefe men, of, if they pleafe, their Con-» tempt and Reproach ? J\[, C. You fay you are not angry, but methinks you are in a great heat. c. Not at their flighting us I aflure you. N.c, What then. c, I told you, that I profefled a juft indignation at fome things ; and more particularly to fee the Scrip- ture fo wretchedly abufed and wreft- ed, even this very cafe, to juftify their Separation and withdrawing from us. N. C You mean I believe that to the Corinthians, cited by Mr. Bridge. Come out from among them, and he ye feparatCy touch no unclean thinz* 2. Cor. c. Yes. K. C. And doth it not require us to have no Communion with the wicked, of which your Congregati- ons we think are full ? C But the Friendly Debate . '2 -y 5 C But do you think then we are all Pagans and Infidels ; /. e. fuch people as do not fo much as ac- knowledge Jefus Chrift to be the Lord ? N.a God forbid. C Then you apply thofe words impertinently to us ( as you do the reft of the Scriptures ) who are no- thing like thofe,from whom the Apo- ftle would have the Corinthians with- draw. It is an exceeding great (hame that you have been fo long turning o- ver the Bible,and talking of the word of God ; and yet not underftand fo plain a thing as this. You feem to me to be like thofe the Apoftle fpeaks of in another Epiftle; who are ever ledrn- ing but never come to the knowledge of the Tr«^/?.Nay,you are like little chil- dren that tear and rend their Book into little fcraps ; or like thofe im- perfe(5l creatures, 1 fpoke of before ; you nibble at a bit of the Scripture, and inftantly ftart away, and leave all the reft. Could you not have caft your eye back but to the i^,verfe^ T 2 There 275 ^ Contimation of There you might have feen who they are the Apoftle fpeaks of. Be ye not unequally yoked together with Infidels, > faith he, i. e. either do not marry an infidel , or do not joyn with them in any of their rites belonging to their Idolatrous fervice. Be not at their Idol feafts; the thing headmoniflit them of in the former Epiftle , and touches upon here again (as fome think) left theyfliould not be cauti- ous enough in this particular. For the Apoftle having told them an Idol vpoi nothing y they might holdthefe feftival entertainments to be indiflfe- rent things, and fo when their kins- folk, or friends invited them, not de- ny that Civility, to accompany them to their Temples. Stay, faies the Apoftle, confider what you do. What fellowfhip hath righteoufnefs with un- tight eoufnefsy &:c. thefe things are as contrary as Light and Darknefs, you cannot partake of the Table of the Lord and the Table of Devils too; as he told them in his firft letter. And then he renews his Exhortation, Come II the tnendly Debate. ^77 Come out from among^ them , and he ye feparate (from thofe Idolatrous Infi- dels) touch no unclean thing ; meddle * not with their Idolatrous fervices> nor any of their wicked wayes. You would be more aflurcd that this is the fenfe, if you would but turn to the place from whence thefe words are cited (as the Margin diredls you) Ifa.fi. II. where the Prophet bids not the more holy fort of Jews to fe- parate from their prophane Bre- thren; but the whole Body of the lews to flye out of Babylon ; as any body may fee that reads the place. And therefore they cannot be urged without a notorious force to prove fuch a reparation as you are in, of one part of a fociety profeffing be- lief in Chrift, and baptized into his name, and renouncing all Idols what- foever; from the other. AndfoMr. Geree I remember a difcreet Presby- terian conlefled, and explained the J^^^^jJf^jJ]' ' words to the fame purpofe that I do. Bernard ' And fo did a noted perfon long before denTes^pi him ^ and far more largely, in his^^?'^^' T 3 dif- 2*^8 ACmtinmHonoj difpute againft the Brownifts. For I muft tell you, thofe olA Separatiffls condemned by all honeft Non-con- formifls in former times , fought to juftiiie their Schifm from the Church of Chrift from this very place : and the very truth is , fo did the ancient Donatifts. Who, to make a fair fhewfor their fearful Schifm, cryed out juft as you do now , Come out from among them , touch no unclean thing : Depart J depart , feparate your fehes. tlave no feOowjhtp with the, unfruitful works of darknefs. Be not partaken of other mens fins : What hath the Chaff to do with the Wheat ? which are the very words now Igno- yantly imployed by your party a- gainft us; with as little knowledge pf their fenfe and meaning , as of their being the rotten tooles where- with thofe Schifmaticks fought to overthrow the whole Church. N. C. How come you by more knowledge than other folk in this matter? Can you tell what the ifo- natifis faid ? C.Yes, the Friendly Debate . 279 C Yes, without reading St AuftitJ. For I can believe an old Englilh Di- vine who lived above half an Age ^^^^ « fince, that acquainted me with this; fard piam and fhewed withall that thofe proud S^fX'" people had the fame anfwer to this f'e alifL* place from that Father, which 1 have natifts.pa9. now given you. Thefc words, faith ^"* '^^°* he, They underftand carndlly, have cut themfelves into fo many divifions, into little hits; in this Africa alone. For they do not under (land that no man is joyned with Infidels , hut he that corn- mitts the fins of Pagans , or elfe doth \ favour thofe that do fuch things y &c. [ jind who hath fellowship with darkne^, hut he that hy the darknefiof his con^ fenty forfaking Chrift , doth follow Be- lial ? who puts his part with Infidels, I but he which is partaker of that In- fidelity f For that way he ceafeth to he the temple of God ; neither o- ther ways doth he joyn himfelf to Idols. N. C. I am convinced of this. But ; may we not gather by proportion, th^t we ought to feparate from the T 4 wicked 26 o A Contimatim of wicked fort of Ghriftians though it be not here intended ? C. Hear what Mr. J, Geree an- Kcfolutldn ^^^^^ ^^ ^^is* '^^' ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ c^zo.Cdfci inferred is y that we fhould avoid need- i644" i^j^ familiarity with the cricked , and allfociety in fin : to keep them from the Sacrament if ws can ; But if it he not incur Power 'y not to omit the Sacra- ment, hecaufe they partake of it. In which he followed the refolution of St. jfuftin who immediately after the words before mentioned, adds thefe B.2.againfias my Author tells me ; jind they c^!T£ which are the Temples of the living God, and in the midfi of a crooked and perverfe generation appear a^ lights in the worlds having the word of life ; no- thing doth infedi them , which they tol- ler ate for Unities fake', nor are they pent up in any fir ait, hecaufe God doth dweli in them and walk in them. And they depart in the mean time out of the evil, and are feparate , at leafl , in heart ; Hefi happily while they would, feparate hy thefedition of Schifm, they jhould rather be fpiritually feparated /. , ; ; . ■ . from the Friendly Debate^. 281 from the good, than corporally from the had. This old Divine alfo admo- nifhes us very well out of the fame Father , that when the multitude of the Aflemblics of the Church are free from that crime to which Ex- communication is denounced, it is very healthful ; and becaufe fo ma- ny avoid him he will be ftricken with fear and healed through fhame. But when the fame ficknefs hath taken hold of very many , there remains nothing elfe to the good , but forrow and bewailing ; that fo they may cf- cape that deftrudlion which is like to come on the multitude of the wic- ked. And in very deed faith he, if the contagion of finning hath invaded the multitude, the fevere mercy of Divine difcipline is neceflary : but the counfell or enterprifes of repara- tion are both vain and pernicious, yea Jacrilegtous ; becaufe then they be- ' come both impious and proud ; and give more trouble to the good which I are weak, than they correcft the ftur- dy ones who are evil. And conclud- ing 282 A Continuation of ing this point , he gives this Advice; Let a man therefore with Mercy cor- rect what he can ; and that which he cannot , let him bear with patience : and with love let him mourn and la- ment, untill He from above do either redrefs and amend ; or elfe diflerre untill the harveft to root out the tares, and to winnow out the chafF. And here he alledges the example of St. Cyprian that holy Martyr, who had been Bilhop of Carthage y and defcribes the multitude as full of grofs fins , yea many of his fellow Bifhops as fpotted with very foul crimes ; but yei: he communicated with them (though not in their fins M'hich he evermore reprehended, yet) in the Sacraments and holy Worfliip of God. Nay, he fliews that our Sa- viour himfelf did not feparate in Bo- dy from thcFharifees and Saduces and multitude of common people, but met with them at the Temple : And it is alfo plain that the jifrican Church which in St. jiuftins dayes befides rheir evil manners , held fome other ble- the Friendly Debate] 283 blemiflics which cannot be charged on ours ; for by his own complaint it appears , there were fuch a multi- tude of Kites and Ceremonies then in ufe, that they were a very great burden, and the Church was oppref- fed and groaned under them. And therefore 1 think your precifenefs in feparating from us is more like the difdainful and proud Religion of the Scribes and Pharifees ; than the hum- ble and charitable purity of our blef- fed Saviour. AT C If you take thefe old Fathers for your Guides they will lead you I know not whither. • They held ma- ny Arrange Opinions. C I fuppofe you would feparate from them too, if they were alive. But what think you of Mr, Cahin i He is a more modern Father, and you may thiqk perhaps more inlight- ned ; will you ftand to his Judge- ment ? N,C. Why.'* What fays he? C. He tells you , that *^ whercfo- l^^eyertheGofpel is purely preached 284 A CmtinuMion of '^ and the Sacraments adminiftred ac- ^t.^Book... cording to the inftitution of Chrift, sea. 9. ^^ there is the Church of God. And '' if the very multitude hath and ho- *'nours thefe; it deferves without *' doubt to be efteemed and judged a ** Church; becaufe it is certain that *^ thefe things are not without fruit. " And if you look a little further to sca.;ic. *' the next Sedlion he repeats it again ^^ with much earneftnefs. There ap- ^^ pears (in fuch a multitude as he ^^ mentioned before ) neither a deceit- ful nor doubtful face of a Church : of which no man may either defpife the Authority , or^efufe the Admoniti- ons, or refifi the Counfels, or mock at *^ the CorifeBions ; much le(i depart ^^from it , break infunder the Unity *^ of it , and go unpunijhed* For the ^^ Lord fo highly efteems the Com- '^munion of the Church that he " counts him for a Traiterous Run- '' away , and forfaken of Religion , " whofoever Ihall ftubbornly eftrange ** himfelf from any Chriftian fellow- ^' fhip : So that it be fuch a one as ^'hath the Friendly Debate^. 285 *' hath a true Miniftry oFthe word *' and Sacraments. He fo commends *' the Churches Authority, that when *' it is violated, he judges his own di- ^* miniflied . Do you hear this ? Kc. Yes. But - C " To prevent all your excepti- " ons, look further into the i z. Sedl:. *^ and there he will tell you that the '^ fellowlhip of fuch a Church is never '^ to be caft of, though it [warm full of ^' many faults. Yea, and there may <^ be fome faultinefs crept into it in '' the Adminiftration either of Do- " dlrine or of the Sacraments, yet it ought not to eftrange us from the ** Communion of it. For ail the Ar- ^' tides be not one fort : and there- i^^ fore we ought not rafhlyfor every 1^^ light diffcntion forfake the Church, ^Cyc. But then, in the next he tells ^you, that in bearing with the im- perfedlions of life, our gentle ten- ^demcfs ought to go much further- ^ And in the next but one, that it is one thing tofhun the private company 9fa wicked man ; and another for ha- '' tred StSt 16. 285 A Continuation of " ttedoffuehtoforfdks the Communion of the whole Church : which is to be more rigorous than St. Paul. And although thii temptation to for fake the Church may by an indifcreet zeal of righteoufnef?, enter into the thought of a good man ; yet we jhall find that too much precifenej? grows rather out of Pride, difdainfulnefi, andfalfe Opini- on of holinef^; than of true holineJS and true zeal thereof. They that are bolder than others, and as it were the Standart'hearers to make any depart- ing from the Church, for the moft part do it upon no other caufe, but their defpifing of all men, to boaft themfelves to be better than others. But I think I had? befl: let the reft a- lone; left you fay 1 rail upon godli- nefs (of which this fepajration is now grown a great note) though in Mr. Calvins words. N. C, We are pot to mind what men fay ? nor to have their perfons in admiration. C. No? Not what your own Mi- nifters fay ? fare their words are an* other the Friendly Debate. 287 other Gofpel with you, or elfe how come you fo to mifunderlland the old? N.C. They are good men, and fo we value what they fay. C ric fliew you then that they have faidthe very fame in behalf of our Form of Divine Service, that I did the laft time we talkt together : and that they condemn this withdrawing^ from us, which Mr. £r/V^tf makes the markofaS^/f;^. N.c^ Pray let it alone: It will be too long. C. Let me tell you thus much: that they told their Brethren oi New- England heretofore, that ;/ we deny communion with fuch a Church a^ ours, there hath heenno Church ^ ^ ^ >,• n. • .^ Letter of manv Minjftcrs mold thefe 1400. years with England requefling the judg. / • / r^j 'a- • I ^ mentot their Brethren in New Whtch a kihnptan mtght tngl. concerning 9. Pofitions lar^fuUy joyn. Nay, that ^]^Z^^^^ if fuch fcrufla as are ^^^^^\^l;^:Z^^' '^ now in your heads may take place, it will be unlawful to hold communion with any Society under Hea- then : and that as for making an Idol of the 288 ^ Contimation of the Common Prayer (which by the way was a phrafe they themfclves made ufe of afterward) it might be as well faid> that they made an Idol of their conceiv- ed Prayers, And therefore what evil fpirit is it that now poflefles fo many of your Preshyterian Minifters, and hath driven them, as if they were out of their wits, from our Church, and their own Principles, and from all the Churches of Chrift, that now are or ever were ? JM.'C. Pray do not fay fo. c. They have granted me that for 1400. years there never was any Church, with which we might hold Communion if not with ours: and I will prove that there hath been none forthefe 1668. years. i\r. C. You are ftrangely bold. C. No bolder than ^r. Calvin ; who will give you good fatisfacftion, if you read the Chapter to which I referred you, that the Church of the JeTves in our Saviours time, and the Apoftolical Churches afterward, tol- krated greater Vices in manner, and fouler the Friendly Debate. 289 fouler Errors in Dodtrine, than were in any Church from which in his days a feparation was made. And I will fhew you diftincflly, either now or when you will require it, that thofe Churches planted and watred by the Apoftles, had thofe Corruptions in Do^rine , WorJInp, Marnier s , Difci- pline, and Gouernment , which can- not be pretended to be in ours : and yet there was no feparation of fome Members from the reft : Nay : the Apoftles notwithftanding all thefe, fpeak very well in general of all, bc- caufe of the graces of fome. They call them all Beliezers & Saints ; and none knew then any other Men of the World, and Unbelievers ; but Pagans^ fuch as did not acknowledge Jefm to be the Lord. N, C. i ariWoth to give you fo great a trouble. But I pray anfwcr me one Scripture which feeras to be againft this ; when it faith. The ^Apofiles fe- parated the Difciples. Adl. I9. 9. C. Admirably argued ! The Apo- ftles feparated the Difciples from U thofe 290 A Continuation of thofc that were not Difciples, and therefore we may feparate Difciples from Difciples. N. c. How fay you ? c. The Apoftles I fay were fent to preach the Gofpel and make Difci- ples to Chrift, baptizing them into his Name who believed on him. Thofe who would make profejGfion of Chrift they gathered into a new Church from among the Jews and Fagans who difown'd him. And accordingly here in this City having won fome to be- lieve, and made them Chrifts Difci- ples, they feparated them from the reft of the Jevpifh Synagogue, who blaf- phemed Chrift and would acknow- ledge no other Religion but that of ^^ofes ; to be a diftindl fociety by themfelves, and no longer Members of the unbelieving Synagogue, From whence you would infer, that one Chriftian is to be feparated from ano- ther Chriftian, and believers gather- ed from believers ; if one part appear to us Pious, and the other Vicious : which is juft as if the Apoftles out of thofe the Friendly D eh Ate, 2p I thofc few Difciplcs feparated frgm the Jews, had made another Icfler Church, feparated from the reft of the Difciples, J\f,c\ Ifeemy Error plainly: And fhall remember hereafter if I can, V not merely to nibble at the Scripture^ as you called it, but take it altoge- ther. But Mr. Bridge affrights us horribly with one place, which pro- phefies he fayes of the greatcft repa- ration in the later daycs, that ever was. It is in the Kevelationy where the Spirit cryes. Come out of her my peo' pie, that you be not partaker of herjins^ there fhall he the greatefl feparation, and that provokes the Antichrifiian par- ty\ as his words are, p. 179. of the Book before mention'd. C. 1 remember them very well,' R^i^. 18.4. But do you ftill take Mr. Bridge for a Prophet ? Have I not fliown you what a rare Seer he is in the Revelation ? N. C. I have heard others befide him mention this place. Mr. Cafe I remember gave us this rqafon to U 2 hope ,2 9 2 A Contimation of hope that God would be gracious to Swuri. England, and thatBahylon fliould ftiort- mentto ly fall ; hccdufe he had begun withfuch God,p. 6s» a difiinSi and audible voice from Hea- ven, to call his people out of Babylon, faying, Come out of her my people, &c. 1 8. Rev. 4. Her Idolatrous bowings, cringings. Altars, Crojfes, and cur fed Ceremonies, falfe Wor(hip, falfc Do* Brine. C. You need fay no more ; I have it perfedlly in mind as well as you. And you were wont I know, in thofe dayes to believe that they knew the defigns of Heaven, as well as if they had been Counfellors of State in that kingdom : and conceived the News they told you of what was com- ing, as fure and certain, as if they had layn in the Bofom of St. John as he did in our Saviours. But I hope by this time you are convinced they were only drowfy dreamers, that knew nothing of his Mind : and fee that they are but like a poor Moufe which having but one hple, is cafily caught. Baby Ion, Babylon was all they the Friendly Debate] 2pj they had to fay then, and thither they run now. Thefe are the Magical foundsy whereby they would aftonifli you : the My^ical words whereby they pracftife all their Sorceries upon you. Stop but your ears againft thefe, and you are free from their Enchant- ments ; for they can never prove that the Church of England is this Babylon from whence his people are calFd, or that (he hath taken fo much as one fip, or kifs'd the Cup of her Fornications. JSf. C. 1 never ask them, indeed, to prove this. C. No, You took it very lovingly upon their word : and ran after thofe whom you fancied and were inamour- ed of, with an implicit Faith ; as if you had tafted too deep of the Cup your felves. If you did but hear them fay, Myflery, Myftery, (the very word you know in the forehead of the whore) prefently you bowed to them, and thought you were under the teachings of an infallible Spirit. And you remember I fuppofe very well, that thofe two and all the reft of the U 3 Mini- 2P4 ^ Continuation of Minivers that were wont to preach before the Parliament, and in the greateft Congregations, generally chofe their texts out of the Uld-Tefia- ment, feldom out of the New, unlefs it were the Revelation, N.C. What of that?' C. By which means they furnifh- ed themfelves in an abundant meafure with fuch Comparifons, as did them admirable fervice. They could eafily contrive it fo, that they might feem fuc!^ a feledl: number as the Jewesy the peculiar people of God; and we like the q^gyptiarjs, and Babylonians y or what other accurfed Nation they pleafed. And fo applying all thofe places which fpoke of them., to us and our times ; they excited in you the fame hatred againfl: us that was in the Jews againfl: thofe Nations ; and made you think it as neceflary to feparate from us, as for the Jews to come out oi Babylon, Nay by a won- derful Art, or prodigious Inchant- ment rather ( which argues your great dulnefs ) they firfl: raifed your fancies^ the Friendly Debate, 2P5 fancies, put words into your mouths, and taught you to expetfl all that they had a mind fhould fhortly come to pafs ; and then they made the ex- pcdlation they had wrought in you an argument that it fhould come to pafs. Thus I remember one of your Divines incouraged the Parliament to expecft the overthrow of Bahylorty hecaufey [aid he, the General talk throughout the Hou/hold among the Do- idnfori. ser- mefikks iiy that Chrifi their King ^^aTFgT coming to take pojfeffion of his Throne>^'^'^^^'^^' 7 his they not only whi/per, hut (peak puhlickly. No^v you know before Kings go to a place, their purpofe if firji known among the Domeflick Servants, and talk't of within doors firfi, and then a- broad and Harbingers prepare the way. This hath been the news throughout the hou/hold, and Harbingers have beenfent abroad : It is dfign that he is not far 0Jf; it will not be long before he come. N. C, Cannot you repeat a fen- tence without laughing ? C.If you had not been very grofs you Vv ould have either laught or been angry il 4 ae 3p5 A Continuation oj at thofe that did not fee or would not take notice of the cheat. How came you, I befeech you, to whifper this and afterward talk it abroad , that Chrift was coming to fit upon his Throne ? Had you any relation of it ? Did you that are his Domefltcks hear Chrift the King fay fo ? Or were you not told fo by thefe pretended Favourites of his, and believed them without asking whence they had the News ? N, C, Undoubtedly we never thought of it, till we heard it preach't and proclaimed by them. C And then when your heads were fiU'd with this conceit, and they had fet your tongues agoing, and made this the General talk ; they ask't you (ifyou wereapttodefpond ) why do you doubt of it ? Be of good chear ; without queftion he is not far ofF; for otherwife you would never have talk't fo much of his coming. Which was no more in plain Bn^lifh than this ; you would never have believed us, if 1% were not fo, were not thefe rare devices the Friendly Debate] 297 devices to fupport the peoples confi- dence ? And were not the people very blind that could not difcern this foul Impofture i Never talk now of the Sottiflinefs of the multitude in the Romijh Church ; for they are cofened by neater Legerdemain than this. Which is juft as if I iliould entertain a Child a long time with hopes of Plums and fine toyes coming from fome Fair : and when he began to doubt of it, fliould tell him; thou haft talk't of them fo long ' my Child, that without queftion they will be here by and by ; how is it poffible that thou fhouldeft be in fuch expedlation of them if they were not at hand? i\r. C. No more words : You have faid enough to make a Child under- , ftand the delufion. C' And yet you fuflFercd your felves to be wheedled and cheated thus over and over again : as if you would crofs the Apoftles rule, and he Men in Ma- lic e^ but Children in underflanding. You heard your Minifterspray, for inftance, '2p8 A Continuation of inftance, that Babylon might faH, and the walls <>/ Jerufalem he built. And then you heard them ftirring you up with the greateft vehemence to give God no refi ^/i/Jerufalem was made a praife in the Earth. And when they fetyou all on fire with thefe defires, then you were very well contented to be made believe, it was a certain figa God would do the bufinefs, becaufe he had put it into your hearts to be fo carneft for it. How is it poflible faid they, that there fhould be fuch a fpi- rit of grace and fupplication poured fuddenly on the Nation, ifChrift were not coming down after it ? Since God hath knit the hearts ofhif people in fuch a Holy Con/piracy cu it were to he- fiege Heaven with their Prayers, all is En^iinccm-f^ot to begiven for lofi. a God hath fa- wa^^Sr'"''^^^ ^/^^^ ^^^'^^^ ofrefiraint from the god>P-77- lips of his people, b the Prayers of Gods people are gone up to Heaven in great JJfemblieSy and have furrounded the throne of Grace : God was never fo tempted to how the Heavens and come '^P^g=79' downtotherefcueofhis People, c God will the Friendly Debate] 2pp will bow down his ears to them : if they cannot come to God, he will caufe his ear to come down to them ; He wtll make a hardfliift (a^ it were) to hear, ra- ther than their prayers he loft, d dpag. go. i\Z". c. You make me blufli to think how we have been gull'd. C. Soyou will be ftill. And it is no wonder they make fo bold with you ; fince they were fo bold with Godand with his holy Word; which they drew to be inflrrumental in the Cheat. They faniftified every defign with fome text of Scripture or other, and with many prayers : till they had defaced the certainty of Holy Writ ; and made no other thing of it than a Nofe of Wax, which may he turned any way as will ferze our purpofes. ^ You need nir. Knew- not be angry : they are the words of f^f^JI^^^ one efteemcd heretofore; though l^^J^v^- know not what thoughts you would "^ have of him, or he of you, if he lived now. If 1 may pafs my conjedture, I think he would take you to be the very fpawn of thofe Erownifts, which were fo juftly deteftcd in thofe dayes For joo ^ Cmtinmtm of Fot he would hear the fame words and phrafes outof your mouths now,which he heard in thofe dayes from theirs, who cryed out upon an Idol Church, an Idol Minifiry, an Idol Government : And, as if they were fure to carry the caufe by thefe outcryes, they never ceafed to pour out thefe Accusations, wherewith the people were terribly affrighted. For they poor fouls ne- ver confidered that if all were granted that fuch words import, it would not prove a feparation fliould be made from our Aflemblies. For in what fenfecanaMinifter be faidto be an Idol, but in fuch an one as the people of JSf;^//?;;^ were called fo, by one of you ? N. c. What fenfe fliould that be? C. rie repeat his words if you pleafe ;which you may find in a Book Plain Rig* put forth on purpofe to prevent a ^fil^^^'^' Peace between the King and Parlia- ment, upon any terms than fuch, as fliould make the King yield to all their defires. We have long pre- tended 1 the Friendly Debate] 301 tended zeal (faith that Author) againft Idolatry^ when in the mean time we are all become one Idol. Wc have eyes and fee not an Army of Pa- pifts, not only with /^^rm/jt/Fof^ allow- ed to ufe their own Religion, but with C^mmiffion appointed ( in event) to deftroy ours. We have Ears and hear not the continual blafphemics againft our God, the reproaches and flanders againft our Parliament. It cannot indeed be faid we have mouths and /peak not y for they that do leaft commonly fpeak moft ; But I am furc I may fay we have Feet and march not ; hands have 7r^> and handle not the Sword and Shield, N. C. You love ftill to be rubbing thefe old fores, as 1 told you once. C. Not I. But Hove to rub up your Memory, that you may refledt how your beloved phrafes are applied toall purpofes; and fee that an Idol Minifter can fignify nothing, but one that doth no more of the work of a Minifter, than the people, itfeems, did of your work of fighting againft the 30 2 A Continuation of the King ; till they were alarm'd by fuch clamors as thefe, and aflfraid to be thought Idolaters, or an Idol people. In fliort, he is fuch a perfon as the Shepherds of Ifrael were when they neglected their Office, and took no care of the flock comnciitted to their truft : Froniwhom notwithftanding the People of Ifrael were not to with- draw, nor to renounce all communion with them, and obedience to them. But befides this I would have you know, that if there be any Minifters among us that are but like W(?/i- and Images of men : there are thofe ( and thanks be to Gcd good ftore)who hear and feeandfpeak, and do the will of God, in the places where they are fet. M.C, lam convinced of all this. C. But I pray once more obferve whether ail fuch writers and preach- ers as Mr. Bridge and the reft of the reparation in which you are ingaged, do not take more pains to prove the danger of Idolatry and the hainouf- nefs of the fin ; than to tell you what Idola- the Friendly Debate, 303 Idolntry is, and to prove that it is Idolatry to joyn with us. Their way alwayes was to prove little and to ac- cufe ftoutly ; to declaim loudly, and not reafon ; to terrify the people by a dreadful found of words and raife great pafTions in then:i ; not to inform their judgments what they are to do and what to avoid. And for that pur- pofe nothing hath ever done them better fcrvice than Bahylorty and ey^- ^ypty and the Golden Calves, and Idol Minifters, Idol Service and fuch like words of no certain and determinate meaning. And to fay the truth, in this, as Mr. Can himfelf could not but obferve a great while ago: con- fifts a great difference between Chrifts inftitutions, and mens inven- tions : Wbatfoever God will have %is do*soiRnd or not do^ he layes dorrn the fame ofenly,^^^J'^^^ precifely, manifejily ; but when iW^/yJ- Balls book jfeaks by hii Mruments, he jfeaks fo^f^,%%, ' ambigucufly and cloakedly^ that one knorrs not how to take it, nor which way to apply it '^. Which if you will but apply (as Mr. B^// told him) to your own 504 A Connmation of own manner of difputing and alledg- ing teftimonies,it will difcovcr your- '^ felves to be the deceivers ; who af- '^ fe(5l ambiguous and equivocal fpee- '^ches, andfeekby miftsandfoggsof ^' ftrange and unufual arguments, and '^ fentences wrefted to a contrary *^ fenfe to blind the eyes and puzzle *' the underftanding of the fimple.For ^^you hide your felves under the r^ " terms offalfe Church, falfe Minijlryy *'falfe Prophets, falfe Worjhip, flying ^^ from Idolatry, taking heed of Idols, " &c. which you have taken up in a ^^ peculiar fenfe ; and running along ^^ in that ftrain you pervert the Scrip- **^tures, wrong Authors, confound ''^things to be diftinguifhed, difpute *' fophiftically ; and while you boaft ^* of clear proofs, dizine precepts, ex- '' ampler and pradl:ices of Forefathers, ^^ £5^c. You only raife a dull to dazzle *' the eye. For let the matter be *^ look't into> and you have neither *^ divine Precept , nor example of *■* godly Forefathers to juftify your ^^fcparation. What you teach hath been the Friendly Dehate. 305 >' been condemned in Schools , cryed " down in Sermons, difallow'd in all ^'the Churches of the Saints from «' the very beginning to this day. JV. C, You are heated now to fome purpofe. C. It is better you fliould blame my zeal , than I blame my own chil- ncfs; and I had rather a great deal be condemned ot fome violence,than of a lazy indiflference in thefe matters.For who is there that values his Religion^ and reverences the Sacred Scriptures, that can hear them thus abufed and not have his fpirit ftirred in him ? J\[.C. There arc thofe whothinJe they fmell fomething elfe thatftirs the fpirits of your Minifters. C. What fhould that be ? M C, Envy and anger that any men fhould be liked better than them- felves. It troubles them to fee any body leave their Churches and fol- low our Minifters; becaufe they would not be thought lefs able than they. And it's poflible their con- X gtega- 2 o 5 A Contimation of gregations may be thin, when fo ma- ny have withdrawn themfelves from them. C. There is an old faying, that no man ever fought another in the Oven, who had not been there before himfelf Had not your Preachers been here- tofore tickled with the fight of full Congregations and the fancy of ha- ving many followers; they could never think Multitudes and throng'd A{Icmblies(which many do not want) fo neceflary to the contentment of any man of worth among us. And were not you intollerably proud and conceited of your felves, this imagi- nation could never have entred into your heads, that it dejedls our Mini- fters to want your company. What are you that they fliould tremble to hear you fay in a threatning manner. We will never hear him mare ? Are you the only men of Wifdom ; the ible Beauty of Chriftian Aflemblies ? Is all their labour loft if you be not there to commend it ? Are the reft of the people no better than the walls and the Fritndly Debate] and the feates ? Speak man : Is it a great courtefie to a Minifter that you will be pleafed to hear him ? Mull he rhink himfelf beholden to you that you vouchfafe him your prefcnce ? S'ay take it for an honour that you :ome and help to make a numerous Vuditory; in which you fliine, as he precious ftones in a ring i O nodigious Vanity ! I have heard in- leed that fome of your Miniftcrs nade low reverences to you and ftu- ied to humour you, as if they lought you deferved much of them 3r honouring their Aflemblies ; but know none of that mind : If you AW not come to hear them, you may ay away, and I wonder who will ave the worfe of it , you or bey? A^. C, If they are not concern'd in lis, why do they keep fucha ftir Dout reparation ? cannot they let t\\c eople do as they will and fay no- ling ? To what purpofe is it to make )*great a noife about fuch little lings ? X 2 CHow 307 joE A Continuation of C. How fay you , little things i Hear Mr. J. Ball I befeech you (a per fon whom you reverence 1 fuppofe^ who tells you in another Book of his; grounds of that how fmall foever the things ii Epiftifto"' themfelves may feem to be, theevii the Reader cenfequcnccs that follow thereupor be both many and great. ^^ It is nc " fmall matter to bury that under the '^ condemnation of falfe worfhip (aj '^ Mr. Bridge doth ) which the Lore '' the Author of all Truth , the De- ^'terminer of his true pleafing anc *^ acceptable worfliip ; doth allow ir '^ his fervice. It is no fmall offence " to forfake the prayers of the Con ^^gregation, to depart from the ^' Table of the Lord , when he call* '' to feaft with himfelf ; and to breal '^ off Society and Communion wit! '' the Church of Ghrift, to fill the '* hearts of weak Chriftians witl: ^'doubts and diftracftions , as not *^ knowing what to do , or what waj ^^ to take ; to fpend time in reafon- ** ings and difputings of this kind ** which might much more profitablj ''be the Friendly Debate] 309 '* be imploycd in the pracftice of Rc- " pentance and holy obedience ; to "expofe Religion to contempt, and '* the truth of God to reproach a- ^' mong them that delight to fpeak I*' evil. Thefe are fad effecfts of this *^ Separation which I oppofe : which *^ tends not (as he fpeaks in his An- '' fwer to Cart,) to the overthrow of *^ Antichriffc , but to the renting of ^' the Church, the difgrace of Reli- ^' gion , the advancement of Pride, *' Schifm and contention, the offence '^ of the weak, the grief of the Godly f^ who are better fetled, the hardning " of the wicked , and the Recovery ^* or rifing of Antichriftianifm. As for other evils ( which he mentions not) fuch as the alienation or abate- ment of affedtion even where there is the neareft bond of Society ; and the fowring of mens minds towards their Governours, in whom they can- not fo heartily rejoyce as they ought, while they take them to be the im- pofers of Idolatrous Ceremonies, or • linful worftiip ; I will not difcourfc Xj of 3 1 o A Cbminmion of of them neither : Not becaufc thej are light matters ; but becaufe I have many things to add and would not be too tedious. N, G. 1 remember fomething ir Mr. Ball to this purpofe, and 1 con fefs it afledled me then , and made me fearful to fall into the reparation : efpecially becaufe of another fad ef fecfl which was ufually obferved in thofe days to follow thefc Divifi- ons, among the people of your Per fwnlion. C. What is that? M, C, 1 heard fome fay, that when men faw thofe who were fo well conceited of their own knowledge, iincerity and piety above others, mif- takefogrofsly, and be fo rigidly pre- cifc as to make that fin which God never made fo; they fell intodiflike even of all the good that was in them : And difcerning how little rea- fon they hid for this ftricknefs, pre- fently imagined they had as little ' fgr the ftricknefs of their lives and converfations in all other matters. . •" CThey the Friendly Debate. C They told you the truth and you ftiould confider it now. There is nothing more difficult than to fe- ver good and evil when they are mixt together. The good is frequently rejedled by fome for the Evils fake ; and the evil received by others for the fake of the good. Men are wont ei- ther to like or diflike all that they fee I in thofe of whom they conceive a good or ill Opinion. They that love the piety of fome Minitters, fall in love alfo with their precifenefs ; and they that hate their Precifenefs, may fall into hatred of their Piety. MC. I am glad you will allow any thing that 1 fay. C Did you think me of fo per- ,verfe a humour, as to fhutmyeyes againft the light of the Sun , becaufe an enemy opens the Windows to let \t in ^ I will ever embrace and juftifie a truth, come it from whom it will, And I pray know once for all, that Ida not approve of thofe who out of ha- tred to the fuperftition of your peo- ple, brand all that are of ftridland X 4 holy 1 1 J12 A Continmtion of holy lives with the name of Preshyte- rian, Fanatick or focne fuch like. But it would do well if you would confi- fider, that which was the occafion of this difcourfe ; how much hurt you do by being fo rigid where there is no need. This tempts inconfiderate people on the one fide to think it is but needlefs fcrupulofity that makes you careful in other things which Chrift indeed hath tyed us unto : at leaft they will put off your reproofs for their Debaucheries , byaccufing you of more precifenefs than you have reafon for. And on the other fide; you obferving the unexcufe- able loofenefs of fome that are ene- mies to your fuperftition ; are temp- ted thereby to ftrengthen your felves the more in it, and to ftand the more- ftifly in your feparation from us. So^ that both fides are the worfe for thefe dlf?erences , and increafe their evil humours by thefe oppofitions. MC. 1 cannot contradidl you in this, ai the Friendly Debate. 313 C. I muft tell you one thing more. While men on both fides have by their contentions and hatreds gone farther and farther one from the o- thcr; they have fain at laft into moft fearful Extremities. On your part, fome have proceeded to that degree of deteftation, as to condemn us of Idolatry and Antichriftianifm , and have fain not only into all the dregs of BroTvnifme and Anabaptifme , but into the dotages of the Quakers, and the men of the fifth kingdom. And on our part, fome have drawn fo far from you, as to fallback into Pope- ry, perhaps into J^/^^z/Jn, at leaft in- difference about Religion ; virhich arc difeafes too frequent alfo among your felves. If therefore the credit of Religion (as Mr.B^// again fpeaks) the glory of God, the Souls of Bre- thren be dear to us, *^ vyhat can we do fufpendcd and filenced '312 ^A Continuation of filenced fome Minifters for not con- forming to the Laws? Laftly why were thefe Lectures Ordered to be printed ; and every Pulpit fuflfered to found with fuch like language? If all thefe things were faid in heat, the better to ftir up the peoples paffions; fay fo, and we have done. You fhall never hear a fyllable of the late times from me ; if you do but ingenuoufly confefs your raflinefs , and humble your felves for thefe and fuch like faults. Or if any of you were then of the mind that Epifcopacy was An- tichriftian (as it is affirm'd in the "view of the Covenant, p. 54.) a limb or claw of the Beaft, as the Erownifls phrafe was , but now are of another opinion ; let us know, it , that we may rejoyce in the change. Wife men fometimes change opinions and Coun- feh , though fools do not. And they , will change for the better as Mr. Bridge hath done for the worfe. For there was a time when he and his Brethren made this Declaration be- fore God and all the world concern- ing the Friendly Debate. '5 1 n ing the Engli/h Churches, In rvhich, fay they , through the grace of God jve Apoioget. jrere converted , that all that Confci- 1643^^"^ ence of the Defilements we conceived to cleave to the True Worfhip of God in them, or of the unwarrantable pow- er in Church'Governours exercifed therein , did never work in any of us any other thought , much lefs opinion ; but that multitudes of the Affemblies and Parochial Congregations thereof were the true Churches and Body of Chrifif and the Minifiry thereof a true ^SMinifiry ; much lefs did it ever enter into our hearts to judge them Antichri- flian. Why they fliould fay ^J^ul- titudes and not all, fince they had the fame form of Divine fervice and were under the fame Government, I know not ; for it cannot be meant of fuch Churches where the Minifterswere chofcn by the People , which were but few. Nor am I concern'd to know the fenfe of thofe words ; but I would gladly know if they pleafe,why they cannot now fee multitudes of fuchChurches;and by what new light or Si8 A Continuation of or Revelation Mr. Bridge hath dif- covered our Worfhip and Churches to be Antichriftian, from which the Saints muft come forth and feparate themfelves. Or rather (for now you would have me fpeak to you alone) why fo many Fresbyterians withdraw themfelves from our Prayers and Sa- craments , and hold feparate Aflem- blies in oppofition to ours ? You do not make your caufe the better but the worfe by this acknowledgment^ that you do not depart from us as no true Churches of Jefus Chrift : and ftand condemned by your own decla- red Principles , and all the writings of your Forefathers. To for fake the true Churches of Chriji (faith Mr. J. Goodwin himfelf ) and the t!Miniflry Letter to ^^^^^^/» Inhere men have been converted Mr.Thomas and buflt Up, and have converted and from Mr. built Up fo many , with thefetting up of icfoS'he"^^^^ Churches y againfi the leave and dependlnt. ^'^^ ^f ^^^ ^^^^^ ^Ugiflrate y without the confent cfthofe Churches departed fromy and to the fcandal and grief of fo many godly (iMiniJfers and Chrifti- anSf the Friendly Debate] 3 1 9 atis , nay the fcandal of all reformed Churches 'y and thii under the pretence of fpiritual power and liberty pur chafed for them hy Chrift ; had need have a clear and full proof, and not he huilt only upon fuch rreak and flight grounds, as flattering fimilitudes y witty al/ufions, remote confequences j ftrain d and forced interpretations from hard and much controverted Scriptures. What clear proofs he afterward found I cannot sionCoU. tell , but when he had rent himfelf^ even from the Presbyterian Churches, he could not but give this Honorable Teftimony to ours ; that travellers from all parts confirmed , that there was more of the truth and power of Re- ligion in England under the late Pre- latical Government , than in all the Reformed Churches befides. There- fore I muft befeech you again to con- fider what folid grounds you have for forfaking fuch a Church as this; which hath been thcMother of fo many pious fouls, and extorted fuch praifes even from thofe undutiful children, who ©ut of I know not what humor, life up A Contimation of up their heel againft her. What fpot do you fpy in her now, which you could not difcern heretofore? Or if there be any, what foul Mon- fter fhould it be that thus affrights you, if indeed we be not the Beaft, nor any limb of hin) ? You that pro- fefs fo much tendernej^of Confcience , fliould rather methinks, be horribly afraid, fince you think we are a Church ftill united to Chrift, left by feparating from us , you cut your lelves off from him , and run in time to the greateft extremities , and ut- terly renounce and difown us. For as Mr.B/^// hath well obferved, 'Ihey that have once broken off from us , have run from one error into another y after the fond imaginatioft of their heart , //// they have dafht themfelves againft the Rocks. And indeed how can you ex- pe(fl it fliould be otherwife. '* There ^' is but one Body, the Church ; but '^ one Lord or Head of the Bodv, ** Chrift : whofoever feparates from ** the Body, therefore feparates from [' Chrift in that refpedl. And if we with' the Friendly Deme. 5^ '^withdraw our fclves from him ^' where he gracioufly invites us to '^feaft with him^may we not juftly fear '*hc will withdraw himfelf from us, ^^ and make us feek when we fhall not ** find him ? This voluntary repara- tion from the Lords Table and the ^' Prayers of the Congregation, is a 'willing excon::imunication of our ' felves from the Vifible tokens of the ' Lords prefence and Love. And if 'it be a grievous fin in Church ' Governors to deprive any Membeif 'of the Church of all Communion 'with the Vifible Church upon light ' and unneceflary occafions,is it not a greater fin in theMembers to deprive ' themfelves of the fame Communi- 'on upon the like or lefs occafions ? kVithout all doubt, this fin will be mniflied with blindncfs of mind if ou perfift in it. Such offenders laving run ( as 1 am able to prove ) rom one thing to another with the reateft confidence, till they came o think themfelves infpired and full f the Holy-Ghoft, even when they Y rail'd ^2 2 A Continuation of raird and reviled all other Chur- ches : and when thofe heates failed, to think that all Religion was a mere hypocondriacal Delufion. This Mr. Calvin aflured you long ago would be the fate of Separatifts from fuch a Church as Ours ; Becaufe they dijfolve (faith he) the facte d Bond of Unity y no man p^all efcape this jufl pu- nijhmerjt of his divorce y that he fhall in- toxicate himfelf with mofi pejiilent er- rors, and mofi foul dotages^ Nay, your own Minifters could admonifh Advertife* Y^vi heretofore ; that when Religion ment^upon either hy choice or force is propagated in before the Comers, many Heretical DoBrines are the Bible hatched and preached, and afterward, ^^45« If Y\(\ay he, printed too ; which had not been conceived nor divulged if the Au- thors of them had continued in the focie- tyofpubliqueAffemhlies. And there- fore you, fhe thinks above all other men fliould dread the fadeflfedls of this new feparation ; as much as thofe men do the fea, who feel them- felves yet wet, and come forth drop ping from a wreck. Remember youri ow the Friendly Debate. 523 own fad complaints and Lamenta- tions, the Shriekes and the Crycs, which are yet frefh in our ears ; Re- member what Rocks you dalh't a- gainft when you had once forfaken our Company and broken the Bond of Unity, Call to mind how many per- fifted; and in what danger all were to be loft. Did you not pray the five Brethren to confider in the begin- ning of the Storm , that in their Church way into which many were running, there would be no end of Schifms : but every two or three members if they pleafed might fet up a Church by themfelves ? Witnefs the rent in that Church where Mr. BridgCy^ndi MtSympfon were teachers at Rotterdam. Where Mr. 5;m/?/o//,as ^"f^^po^^* Mr. Edvpards informs us, having on- ly a Merchant and his wife, joyning with him at the firft, feparated from Mr. Bridge and fet up a new Church of their own : of which a Woman (Mrs. White) was the foundrefs as Mr. Bn<^^^ himfelf hath faid. And when they were thus torn in funder, Y z both 324 ^ Continuation 0} both parts of the Divifion fell toge- ther by the ears among themfelves. There was a new rent in Mr. Sympfons company, and Mr. Ward colleague t® Mr Bridge, was depofed from his Miniftry and office by Mr. Bridge his Church, for fome frivolous differen- ces. And fuch was the bitternefs, re- vilings and reproaches exprefled in the letter that pafs'd between them, that the Readers ears would tingle fliould he hear them.In fhort, the Jews and the Samaritans were not greater Enemies, than thefe were one to an- other ; as my Author affirms. N* C, Mr. Edwards you mean. C, Yes, and 1 hope you think him a good one now, as you did hereto- fore. If not, I can juftify what he fayes out of a learned Dutch writer if you pleafe. i\7". c. I am not much concern'd about this. C. But you are concern'd to keep in mind thefe fcandals in feparate Congregations. And it will do you no hurt, I am fure, to reflecil a great deal the Friendly Debate] "325 deal farther back ; and confider what work the ancient Scparatifls of our Nation made in the fame Country. John f on and ^infworth fell out at Am- fierdam, and their Congregation was divided into two, one of which ex- communicated the other. The two Johnfons alfo, though Brethren in na- ture as well as Religion, fell into fuch a fiery contention upon a fmall occafion, that George the younger, became a Libeller and loaded his Bro- ther and others with many reproach- es, and that in Print ; to remain for ever. The Elder broke fellowfhip with him and with his own Father ( who took part with George and curf- cd the other with all the curfes in Gods Book) and this breach was confirm'd by the heavy fentence of Excommunication, and both Father and Brother delivered up to the De- vil. But then at Leiden, J. Smith condemned them all, and accufed them of Idolatry ; telling them that their Conftitution was as very a Har- lot as either her mother England, or Y 3 Grand- 325 A Continuation oj Grandmother Roms; and that the Separation was the yi?^;/^^/? andfaireji daughter of Rome the Harlot, The reafon was, becaufe they look't into their Bibles when they preach't, and Into the Pfalter when they fung ; For the Holy Scriptures , he faidj, were not to be retained as helps before the eyes in time ofworjhip, and particularly that it was unlawful to have a Book before them in finging of Ffalms, Befides, their Government he thought was Antichriflian ; becaufe they joyned to Paflors, other DoSIors and ReSiors, which was an humane invention. And fo he fell to the Anabaptifts; where he madealfoa newfedt, by baptizing himfelf. If you pleafe to have fome of his Words perhaps they may be ufeful to you ; when Popifh prelacy. In his Book a faith he, was fuppreffed, and the called, the -»^ . « i -n r / • n /? Diflferences '^Jrtformed Presbytery (viz. Jrajtors, chesl^ti^'^^ Teachers and Elders) fubftituted ; separation, u one Jntichrifi was put down, and *^ another fet up in his place: or *^ the Beafi was fuppreflcd and his I- " mage advanced. And therefore, as <'they the tnemly LJet?ate. 527 '^ they that fubmit to the Prelacy are ^^ fubje(5l to that wo oiWorjhipping the. " Beafl ; fo they that fubmit to the ^^ Triform* d Presbytery, are in like *^ manner liable to that wo denounced *^ againft them that Wor[hip the Image <' of the Beafl, i\7". C. I perceive what you are go- ing to fay, you would have me mark again, how every Party paints their Oppofites in the fhape of this ugly Beaft ; to terrify fimple people with it, as we do children with Bug- Mr.R. Bern. kf»«r^ Plain Evi'- C. Andwhofoever reads and con-^^iap.^ fidersthefe things will be I think, of old Mr. Bernards mind who told this Nation threefcore years ago, that ii if better to endure corruptions in a Church , than be turmoiled with fuch diflraBionSy and to be brought into fuch confufions : even a Babel of languages, of opinions, of JJfemblies, of Govern- ing, of Government and whatnot. It is a blejjing to be Well ; but a greater hlejjing to know it, andfo to abide. For befides other Separations which I Y 4 could 326 ^A Continuation of could tell you of, the iffue and refult of all was this ; the decay of all true piety ^ and a turning all Religion into wrangling, cenfuring and condemn- ing one another. For, as all that have declined to that Schifm ( mark it I befeech you, if the characfter do not confUtati- concern fome of you ) ^ic found to he ^^^^^^^^"escceedin£ proud, and difdainful to- paratift a* , / / i • i i greed upon ii?^r^ J all that are contrary mtndedj the^oynt ^ Tea cvcnfuch 04 ( before they were in- manrnon/^<^^^ mththat kvcn) werepattems conf. Mini= (,f ^// Iq^q modeffv and humility to fters, pub- -^ r. .// ; / i i \^{[\zdhy^^r.cthers : Cio vptll they not acknowledge W. Rath-- ' /• I /7 ; / hiiid,i64.i. nor reverence any of the mojf excellent part.4.p.62. Graces that God hath given to any of his fervants among us, nor Jo much refpedl them, a^. the very Papifis will do. Noy they pr of e(? greater deteflation and de- ff>ighttoihe mofl godly and mop fincere men among us, than they do tofuch as are mofl notorious in Prophanenefi and Malice to the Truth. And a Divine more ancient than thefe, gave this remarkable Defcription of the fruits produced by feparate Congregations. Look upon the people faith he, and you the Friendly Debate] ^2p you fhall fee very many who not regard' ,_c-| ing the chief Chrifl tan Virtues and godly duties ; as namely to he meek, to he pa- ford^phm * tienty to he lowly, to he full of love and f^'^^^^^''^^ mercy, to deal uprightly and jufily, /o "nderwices; guide their families in thefearofGoddKatee\cry with wholfome InflruBions, and toftand cEi^but faft in the calling in which God hath fet"^^^^'}^^, them ; aive themfelves wholly to this,^^^^,"^<^^^^f^ even en tftt were the Jum and rtth (?/on,An.is9o Religion, namely, to argue and talk continually againft matters in the Church, againft Bifljops and Minifters, and one againft another on hoth fides. Some are proceeded to this that they will come to the Ajfemhlies to hear Ser- mons and Prayers of the Preacher, hut not to the Prayers of the Book : which I take to he a more grievous fin than many dofuppofe. But yet this is not the worft ; Forfundry are gone further 4ndfaln into a damnahle Schifm ; and the fame fo much the more fearful and dangerous, in that many do not fee the FoulneJ? of it : hut rather hold them as godly Ghri- ftians ; and hut a little overfiot infome matters. Which words I have the rather Vtq a Continuation of rather recited, that you may fee what thoughts the moft moderate men heretofore h^d concerning the way into which you are falling. N.c. Truly, I can fcarccfee for what end you have told me all thefe old ftories. c. That's ftrange ! I was admo- nifliing you of the care that you fliould take above all others, not to run into thefe dangerous paths : who have not only heard all thefe things from thofe before us, but alfo feen with your eyes, and felt by dear ex- perience, the great fwarms of Sedls and Herefies that have come out of feparate Congregations; and the miferable havock they have made of all true Religion and Godlinefs. Now what fecurity I befeech you, have any of you that the Congregations you begin to draw from us, apart to your felves; Ihall not break in time into as many little fractions, and produce thefe bitter fruits which 1 have menti- oned ? what charm, what power have you to keep out this evil Spirit,whicH al- the Friendly Debate. . 351 alwayes haunted the reparation ? All the Authority which your Minifters may think they have, hath no foun- dation but the Pafllons of the com- mon people. It depends for the moft part on the fancies of rude Artifans, - and Ignorant Mechanicks. Thefe will make their Divinity for them; and they muft ftill be inventing new conceits to entertain their Imagina- tions. They are fervants to fuch a world of Matters, that it is evident they have reafon to fear their own fide, as much as ours. And when they have done all they can, they arc liable to be thought Impoftors, as oft as any man thinks he is taught of God, and hath a new light fhining into his mmd. Then fhall you fee again all thofe wild fancies fly about which are now in great meafure falln to the ground. Old England may be- come as mad as the Nevp : and fuch a woman as Mrs. Hutchinforiy that Ihall take upon her to repeat your Sermons as (he did thofe oiyir. Cottons \ may be more cryed up than all the Mini- fters you have. N, C.\t 33^ ^ Continuation of N, C. It is impoflible. C. That which hath been done more than once, may be done again. For the Wine of reparation ( as two i\r^7r-£^^/^«^Minifters call it) hath fuch a fpirit in it as flyes up furioufly into mens heads, and works with a reftlefs violence there. It hurries and Mr. them head-long as they fpeak, to D^nSof ftrange diftances ; that in feparating Q^^J^^y!' f^om publick, they fepar ate from pri- vate \ in feparating from corrupt Chur- ches {as no Churches ) they fepar ate from the pure ft even thofe of their own ; in feparating from pollutions in Gods Ordinances, at laft they fall to the ftormingof fome, if not the utter re- nouncing of all the Ordinances them- f elves. For when rafh andfudden men 9 are grown Mafters of their Confciences ; it troubles not them from whom they di- vide y nor whither they run in fepar ate Ttayes, At the very next ftep they are under the Miniftration of the Spi- rit, tis the Phrafe was in the late times. They live upon Pure and Naked God in themfclves, unclothed of flefli and the Friendly Debate I 3 j j and Form. They are rifen and caught up out of flefli into Spirit, out of Form into Power, out of Type into Truth, out of Shaddow into Sub- ftance, out ofthe Sign into the thing Signified. And fo they drink wine new in the Kingdome, even new in the Kingdom ; not in the Oldne(i of the Letter, but in the Newneiioi the Spirit. A^. c. I remember how this W%ie, as you call it, wrought in the late times, and there are none figh more than we to think ofthe fpiritual mad- nefs that then raged. And I afTurc you we bewail and lament with many tears our prefent Divifions ; and have kept as many dayes as there are weeks in the year to fcek the Lord for the healing of our fad breaches. C^ To what purpofe is that, as long as you keep them wide open, by withdrawing yourfelves from the publick Aflemblies of Gods people ? You had better fpare all that breath ; for it is as ridiculous, as if a man fliould cry and roar under the fmart of 534 ^ Continuation of of a wound, and yet would not keep himfelf from raking in it continually with his nailes. Why do you not ufc the means of Union if you truly defire it ? What is the caufe you follow not fuch Chriftian Counfel as I made bold the laft time to leave with you ? That would be more effevftual than all your fafts and Prayers, which in truth ferve only to continue the D#ifion and keep our Wounds gape- ing. For they are the very things, as you ufe them, which make the Schifm ; and yet they perfwade the people,that^o« are not too blame, but the Bijhops only. Kc. OSir, that you would but lay the Saddle upon the right Horfe, You load us with many accufations, but the Biftiops are in fault who will not remove the fubje(5l of thefe con- tentions. If you were not partial you would admonifh them, as well as us : and tell them they ought not to ftand fo precifely upon indifferent things , and alter nothing. This would be a fhort way to remedy all our the Friendly Debate. 555: our evils, to take away the things which are offenfive to the weak, and fo become inconvenient, if not un- lawful. And you know who faid, that Contentions retaining of Cuftoms is a turbulent thing as well as Innno- 'vations. Why do you not put them in mind of thefe things, but fpend your time only in telling us our. Duty ? c. I am not fo well conceited of my felf as to think 1 am alike able to judg, what is convenient, and what is lawful. For it requires not only great underftanding in the nature of things, but alfo in the nature and temper of men, in the ftate of affairs at home and abroad ; together with diligent and long obfervation, and indeed all the pcrfedlions of a pru- dent Governor ; to be able to deter- mine what is moft expedient for a Church or State ; But every Chri- ftian may foon refolve or receive fa- tisfacflion about what is finful, or permitted to him. Befides, were I never fo skilful, I Ihould not have the 33^ -^ Continuation of the confidence ( to which it feems you are arrived ) to inftrudl my fu- periors : It is enough for me to deal with my equals. Though modeft propofals and humble defires with- out any noife and ftir, I prefume would never be difliked from any of us : and had you always taken that courfe from the beginning > it had been better for you:But youwere ever for ajfertions andpofitiom (as my Lord Baconlong ago obferved) and filled all the Nation as much as you could with difpleafure againft their Gover- nors ; and taught them to efteem the comipounding of controverfies to fa- vour of mans Wifdom and humane Policy. JSf. C. No, we are now for an Ac- commodation. C' You do well to put in that word now , for it was ever otherways heretofore , and Books were written againft it ( as I will fhew you if you defire it ) when you hoped to carry all before you. And it is a great ar- gument of your headijnefs and paifli- on th Friendly Debate] jj'-j on(to fay no more)that when you had power to accommodate Differences you would not; and now you cry out for it, when it is neither in your power nor ours. For why do you lay the Bijhops fliould remove out of the way the things that trouble you ? Have they power to alter laws and change them at their pleafure ? Are not they bound up and tied to obedi- ence as well as your felves ? All that they can do is but to joy n their Votes together with many other, to fettle that Religion which is found and good ; it being the foundation of all Laws and the common bond of hu- mane Society : and when it is efta- bliflit to take the fame care that it be preferved from fudden and unne- ceflfary alterations in any thing be- longing to it ; which are always dan- gerous not only to Religion , but to the Civil Peace. Now fince it is plain they judge it not fit to promote a change becaufeof fome mens diflike, and none ought to be defired, in my poor judgments againft the Opinion Z and Vog A Contimation of and without the confent of our Spi- ritual Governours ; who have more Wifdom, and not lefs piety fure than we ; what have you and I to do but to feek peace and unity fome other way without alterations? A Schifm you fee is moft pernicious, and like to prove moft deadly to all Religion i\T C Let me interpofe one thing which I forgot before. We are not formed into Churches , and fo do not make a ftridl feparation from you as others do. C. So much the greater danger of all the mifchiefs before mentioned : that men Ihould grow wild and mad when they are at fuch liberty, an4 under no government but their own fancies. This your Minifters can- not but underftand well enough: and therefore muft either come to us^ or caft you into a great many little Bo- dies by your felves. JM. C. I wifh heartily we were uni- ted to the main Body of your Church. C.I the FrifYidly Debate] 3 39 C. I am glad to hear you fay fo. But it you would have your wifhes accompliflied , you muft contribute with all your power to the ending our quarrels , by ftudying thofe things that make for peace. Do not talkot the Duty of your Governors, but think ferioufly of your own. And fince it is manifcft as 1 told you, that they judge it not meet to promote any alteration of that which hath been fo long fettled ; and fince it is granted by fo many of you that the things enjoyned by Law are not un- lawful , and by fo many of us they are thought not to be inconvenient ; leave thefe earneft indeavours to al- ter the haws and alter^owr fehes. N. C. What would you have us do? ' C. I would have you fettle your felves (and not be thus wavering) in this perfwafion , that -it is lawful to joyn with us in the Worlhip of God, as noTV eftahli/hed : And then refolvc that it belongs only to thofe to de- termine of the Conveniency of Z z things. 54 o ^ Continuation of things , who have power to do what they beft like, and wifdom and judge- ment to weigh all circumftances and make choife of the beft courfe : And that if they miftake, their error fliall not be imputed to you, who have no- thing to do in fuch matters. After this , weigh ferioufly and often the great mifchiefs of Separation, which far exceed all the Inconveniencies which can be fancied in all our Cere- monies. And then your Minifters muft indeavour to make their ac- quaintance and followers of this be- lief; and confirm them in it by com- ing to the Common -Prayer, and in- forming them that all the ancient Pu- ritans ( as they were called) did not hold it unlawful to joy n with us, but the contrary, to feparate from us. Nay, let them teach them that it is a great deal better to do fomethings which poflibly they had rather let alone , than quarrel and break the peace of the Church of God. They have the Example of Mr. Calvin for it, who finding that during his exile from thf Friendly Debate] 34 1 from Geneva , they had brought back the ufe of the Wafer Cake of un- leavened bread, would not contend about it , though he did not like it. He knew as well as you , it was not commanded by God , and that there was no neccfllty of it ; nay, that this fort of bread had been the invention of the Papifts , and abufed by them to fuperftition and Idolatry; and that they made unleavened bread no- ceflfary to the Sacrament , and urged it as of Divine Inftittition , for which caufes he diflik'd it ; but yet he would not ftrive $ though he would not have been to break a cuftom , but only to go back where he left them ; becaufe he faw it would make a rent. Would you would but imitate his DIfcretion, and we fliould fee an end 3f our Difputes ; Efpecially if you would not be fo peremptory; for :here can be no peace while you affirm with fo much confidence that this and that doubtful thing is the Mind if the Lord, St. Paul was content |\as my Lord Bacons I think, fomc i " "'" 342 A Continuation of where obferves) to fpeak in this man- ner in fome cafes, Ihusjay I, tiot the Lord : and according to my counfeL But now men do fo lightly fay. Not I, hut the Lord, yea and bind it with fuch heavy denunciations of his judg- ments ; that they diftradl poor Souls that would willingly do all that God would have them> and make Diffe- rences fo wide , that we can never come together. Be modeft there- fore in your affedtions, defires, and all your carriage and behaviour. Speak well alfo of the prefentMini- fters that conform in every thing to the Law, who approve themfelves to God and menby their diligence and piety. Be not ready to proclaim the . negligence or perhaps evil manners of any. Hear all their inftrucflions with Reverence, and if you be other- 1 wife minded in any thing , keep it ' to your felves, and make no ftir about it. In fhort do all that ever you can without finning ; and if you do not condemn nor feparate from thofe who do more than you ; then your Omif the Friendly Debate . i^ 2 Omiflions may be pardoned, and you may more reafonably cxpecft indul- gence or accommodation , when you do your Duty as well as you arc able, than now that you are difobedient, and obftinately refufe to obey Autho- rity in things you acknowledge not unlawful. i\r. C. But there fhould be. fome yielding on both fides. C. Would you have us yield to thofe, who will not bend to their own Reafon and Confcience ? Firft do what you can ; otherwife we can- not fo much as yield that you are throughly fincere and honeft hearted. And let me admonifli you of this al- fo; that unlefs you reform your felves in fuch things as I have menti- oned, all that can be fairly yielded will not do thebufinefs. For when you have any hope of obtaining all you wifli, nothing will ferve lefs than that. It will not content you to have your confciences fatisfied, but we muft fatisfie your Fancy too : For I have been informed that there was Z 4 fome 344 ^ Continuation of mlwai- ^^^^ inclination even in^ueenElr fe|ham zaheths days , to remove the Cere- Knewftubs monics of the Crofs , Surplifs and JttoDrf^ kneeling, ifthat would give content. johnBurgesgut thofc of your peifwafion who were confulted with , returned this Anfwer ; that they muft not leave a hoof behind, which Anfwer, faith my Author, made them all the fa- tter. N.C. It v^as their Confcience therefore that was unfatisfied. C. And there is nohopeoffatisfy- ing fuch Confciences, as ftill fay like ^Ufes to Pharaoh , Thus faith the Lord ; in every little point. No- thing will pleafe them , but pulling down all, and rearing another build- ing after a new model of their own ; or^ in their phrafe, according to the pa- tern in the f$JMount, N, C, I muft talk with you about that anon, if lean; but 1 hope there are few of thefe rigid men , now a- mong our Minifters. C Then I have told them the way to peace. AX But the Friendly Debate] 3^5 N. C. But it is fuch a way I per- ceive as would make them only hear- ers of Sermons , not preachers , un- lefs they conform in all things. It would tye up their Tongues , and re- ftrain them from the exercife of their ^SMiniftry : a thing they can never confentunto. C. The ancient filenced Minifters before the wars, quietly fuflfered this reftraint : and thought they might, nay ought to ceafe preaching when they were deprived. A^. C. I cannot believe it. C. It is fo notorious, that the Brownifls objected this 'to them as a Crime , that they did acquiefce in the fufpenfion or deprivation of the Biftiops. But they were fo far from thinking it a fault ; that they juftified it to be a Vertue. For fo longy faid they , as the Bifhops fufpend and deprive according^ to the Laws of the land , we account of the ji^ion herein , as of the aU of the. Church ; which we may and ought to re- verence and yield unto : if they do other- wife; 34^ ^ Comimatm of wife ; voe have liberty given tit hy the Law to appeal from them. If it be fdidy that the Church is not to be obeyed A moft Grave and modeft ^^5^ '^ fufpends and de^ Confutation of the Errors of prtVeS US, for fuch CaufeS the Sea called Brownifts or ^ . '' '' r - Separatifts 5 agreed upon aS We tn OUr COnJctenceS lSf^?S„'^jSLSS'S think to h infufficknt; ^^^^^■'rvt^^fi^l r^eanfwer : That it ties in Mr.Rathband i644.part.2. them to depofe that may ordain ; and they may (hut that may open. And that as he may with a good confcience evrecute a Mini- ftry by the ordination and calling of the Church, who is privy to himfelfof fome unfitnefi ( // the Church will prefihim to it :) fo may 'he who is privy to htmfelf of no fault that deferves deprivation, ceafe from the execution of his ^tini- ftry ; when he is prejfed thereunto by the Church. And indeed y if a guiltlefs perfon put out of his charge by the Churches ^Authority , may yet continue in it, what proceedings can there be a- gainfi guilty per foil s , who in their own conceits are always guiltlefs, or will at leaft pretend fo to he ; feeing they alfo will be ready alway to obje£i againfl the Churches the Friendly Debate. q j.^ Churches Judgment, that they are cal- led of God J and may not therefore give^ over the execution of their ^liniflry at the will of man ? N. C. It is notably obferved I muft confcfs : I did not think they had beca of this mind, C. Your Minifters that are of any learning know this well enough : but cither are a new Brood fprung from a mixture of feveral Sedls , or elfe adl direcftly contrary to their Princi- ples. Say which you pleafe, it is- indifftrent to me : Whether do you think their principles are pure deri- ved from t\\Q anctent Non-conformift^, or that they have only fome of their Principles , mingled with others of the old Separatifts ? N. C. I am fure they cannot en- dure the name of thofe Separa- tifts. C. Why do they countenance their objedlions then againft their forefathers ; and adl more like them than the Non-conformifts ? N.C.lt 34^ A Continuation of N. C. It is forgetfulnefs I believe. And yet, if they thought they might keep filence , why do they fay fo oft. Wo he to me if I preach not the Gofpel ? I Cor* 9. 1 6. and, whether it he right to hearken to you , more than to God, judge ye, Ac5l. 4. 19, 20. & That's a Queftion to be askt them , rather than me. And their Forefathers in Nonconformity , thought fuch places unskilfully al- ledged againft them by the Brownifis, and that they were nothing to the purpofe : their Cafe (and fo yours) being fo dififerent from the Apoftles. '' Tot firft, They that inhibited the A- ib. part. 2/' poftles(they are the words of thofe pag. 42. <^Minifl:ers concerning the laftplace) *^ were known and profeffcd enemies *' to the Gofpel. S*tfco/;^/)',the Apoftles '^ were charged not to teach in the '^ name of Chrift, nor to publifh any <^ part of the dodlrine of the Gofpel ; *' which commandment might more ^^ hardly be yielded unto than this of *^ of our Bifliops , who are not only ^^ content that the Gofpel fliouldbe preached, the Friendly Debate J '349 ^^ preached, but are alfo Preachers of "it themfclves. Laftly, the Apo- '* files received not their calling and " Authority from men, nor by the ^' hands of men, but immediate- "ly from God himfelf, and ^'therefore might not be reftraincd ^'or depofcd by men: whereas wc, '' though we exercife a fundlion *^ whereof God is the Author, and '^ are alfo called ofGod to it, yet aro " we called and ordained by the hand ^^ and miniftry of men, and therefore '^ may by men be alfo depofed, and " reftrained from the exercife of our " Miniftry. N, c. They feem to fpeak with great judgment. C. Would we could but hear you Difcourfc now thus wifely and folid- ly : it would gain you great refpedt and make every body in love with you, iwhatfoever differences there were be- tween us. But to hear men only babble in Scripture language ; foig- norantly as if they were mere Novi- ces 2|o -^ Continuation of ces in Chriftian Religion, and yet fo confidently as if they were Apo« files; it cannot but difguft all ratio- nal perfons. Befides, would not any man think that many of your Mini- fters were carried more by Humour than Piety, and regarded more theii ownintereft, than that of Religion, when he hears them crying out^necef/i- ty it laid upon us ; and wo he to us, if we preach not the Go^el ; and yet they preach it only where there is no need, and that with a greater breach of the Laws, than if they preached in other places ? Why do they not inftrucfl the countrey people, (if theymuft preach) where they fay the Cures are worft ferved ? I doubt they fee their condition would be Woful in- deed, if they preach'd the Gofpel there ; and therefore they fhould have added two words to the Apoftles fpeech and faid. Wo he to us, if we preach not the Gojpelyin LONDON. There is little to be got by preaching it to the poor Countrey folk. Thofe are barren places to fowthe feed in, and the Friendly Debate] -^^ i and will bring forth fmall profit to themfelves. And fo they would do well to fay in plain Englifl? (and I fhould think them honefter men if they did ) Nccefjity u laid upon us : to tell you the truth, Wc mufi preach to get a living. N.C. I have heard them fay, that they have fearch't their hearts of- ten c So did the Army as I told you, and were never the better for that. A^. . And they find that they mean uprightly : and that it doth not condemn them of confulting with flejh I and hloud^ (. . 1 find that they api/hly imitate the Apoftles without their fpirit : and run about with their vpords in their mouths, when they leave the fenfe behind. As if when they want the things the Apoftles had, it were fome ::omfbrt to them that they can keep their glorious Phirafe and Stile. Did :hey never confulc think you one with mother, what to do? N. c. Yes without doubt. C. And 2^2 A Comimation of C. And what are they, I befeech you? Are they turned on a fudden into Spirits ? Have they left: the Body, {ince they left: our Churches ; . and become feparated Subftances , I fince they became Separatifts> I i\r. c. What do you mean ? C Nay, what do you mean, thus vainly to aflFedl the Apoftles phrafe, who intended nothing elfe, when he faid, ( I Gal. i6. ) that he did not confult with flejh and blood afiier God was pleafed to give him an immediate commiflion to preach Chrift ? but that he did not confer and deliberate with any mortal men, like himfelfi whether he fliould go about that work or no. And truly in this fenfe I doubt your Minifters confulted too much with flefh and bloody when they confidered whether they fliould con- form to theOrders of theChurch or no. They applied themfelvesto your hu- mour,and thought whether you would not be difpleafed to fee them do that which they had raflily condemned or flighted; and hear them preach up that, the trtrndly Debate. -i^-} that, which they had defiroyed. Saint /'W indeed ftood not upon this, and would not hearken to what men faid : but they 1 doubt had more of liis words than of his mind ; and fate liftning a great while to the voice of fiefli and blood about this matter. And I wifli they did not confuit too much with it about other things : and did not baulk difpleafing Dodlrines. Othcrwife, why do they not teach you in an honeft manner as the Old Non-Conformifls did: that the Anci- ent Church of God ufed a Form of Prayer and Praifes , as every body knowes "^ f And that our Saviour bad ^^^^^^ ^^^ his Difciples when they prayed to i"g»i[av rhey fay, Our Father, tyc, which he would p'r"vers"'^' never have done, if it had not been fngT4f lawful for us in making our Prayers ^^npturcs, to Cjrod, to ufe the very fame words : ons, foieim And that it is an abfurd and frivolous fed in^^thdr exception to fay, we never read that^-"''^'^'^* the Apoftles did ufe a prefcript form of Words ; For if this be fufficient toexcufe us from doing what God cxprefly commands or manifeftly A a per- jj:^ ^ Conummon of permits, that we never read the Apo- IHes or Saints did it ; then we muft not, orneed not Baptife in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghoft, becaufe we never find they ufed thofe words ; or that they Baptifed Infants, or that they prayed, or rendred ac- knowledgments to the Holy Ghoft, And farther, why do they not teach you that even upon extraordinary oc- cafions, which require great and fpe> cial fervency of Spirit, it is lawful! to ufe a Form of Words , as our Blefled Saviour did in his Agony \And£othQ Matth. 26 42. 45. "^ ? And again, not Sd^poin.only thofe Forms which we frame gal^e^fiSn ^^^ felves, but which have been com- &'2jodi P^^^^ "^y others ? as Solomon , they obferved Jehofophat , Hezekiah, all ufed the very words thatDavidhzd done before. Nay, further yet, that the people of God have ufed a fet Form of Words in extraordinary oc- cafions, which were appointed long before thofe occafions fell out. Da- niel £ov inftance ufed the words that Solomon had commended in cafe of Gapti- the Friendly Debate] '^f^ Captivity^: and Ezra ufes that^P^^^ Form of Thankfgiving, which y,fy^. compared fw/^^ had appointed, fay they, to be8V47.' ufed after their return from Captivi- ty^. "And more than this, that it^V^comp! is lawful to ufe not onlythofe formsj^^|.^^^^55^^ which are in the Scripture, but fuch ^ E?ia. lu as in the compiling and coUecfting them, the Invention and fuch other Gifts of men are ufed. There heiti^ a liberty ( as the Separatifls themfelves heretofore confefTed ) left in the Church to do many things, that tend on- ly to the Jetting forth Gods Ordinances. As in preaching of the Word, and in thofe Prayers, which they call con- ceived Prayers \ the Wit, Memory, judgment, and fuch other humane gifts are lawfully and necefifarily u- fed. Efpecially confidering, that the peoples Underftanding and Me- mory may be better helped by that they are well acquainted withal, than by the other. And tlien, if forms thus devifed by men be found to be lawful and profitable ; what fin can it bc; for the Governors of the A a z Church 35 6 A ConttHmtion of Church to command that fuch Forms beufed, or for us to ufe them (being perfwaded of their lawfulnefs ) when they are impofed ? Unlefs any body will fay, that therefore it is unlaw- ful for us to hear the Word, receive the Sacraments, believe the Trinity and aU other Articles of the Faith, becaufe we are commanded by the Magiftrate fo to do: Whereas in- deed we ought the rather to do good things that are agreeable to the Word, when we know them to be alfo commanded by the Chriftian Magiftrate. Thefe are the very words of your ancient Writers a- pubuff'g^^"^ the Bro7r;;f/?j or Separatiftsc . byM^-w. Let but your Minifters, notconfult- parti.biic ing the Peoples fancies and defires, ouro/f faithfully inculcate thefe Truths, Sit^wr"ter ^^^ indeavour to ingraft them in their Mr. Rich., minds: it will give a great Teftimony Bernards r \ - c*- - it /> • confutation Or their iSincerity, and 1 am lure it * o/sLmw ^ will go a great way to make up our wo1>d?Air fad Divifions. If they will not prefs 1608.W thefe things more than any thing elfe, ior the prelent ; ( there being fuch great the Friendly Debate^, 357 great ncceffity of it ) we can give no other reafon of their ftUnce, but that they confult their ovfn inter eft , and are loth to leave their private Meetings. And then confidering their known and declared Principles, 1 fliall be forced to ufe a word of one of their great Enemies ( though I proteft I am fincerely their friend ) and fay they are of the moft ancient Secflof the jiuto catacrites"^ t ^'^^ *-^* ^^Sfcu Self- condemn d~\ the worft of allaionof Se<5laries. ^^t" ^' i\r. c, i have heard our Minifters acknowledg all this ; and therefore what needs thus many words i C. Acknowledg it, man ? I would not only have them fay fo when they wereask't, (as if it were a forrowful Confeflfion whifpered in the Ear ; ) butpublifhitaloudonall occafions; that fo they may call back thofe flieep that are gone aftray by their means. Let every one of them, the next time you meet, fpeak to the people in their own language and fay, Corner let us go up out of this Bahelyund confufiov^het A a 3 us 35o A Cmtimatim oj us return to Sion; though it he with weeping and Supplication, there the Lord dwel/eth, and there he ii truly wor- /hipped. For whatfoever they may acknowledge fometimc; the poor people ( whom I pitty with all my foul ) are ftrangely and paflionately poflcfled with an opinion of the fin- f ulnefs of being prefent at our Divine Service. Many of them efteem one of our Minifters, how well foever qualified and diligent in his calling, however blamelefs and exemplary in his converfation ; no better than a Corrupt man, a Time-ferver, a Forma^ lifty Popijhly affeBedy or at leaft, a man blinded and deceived through Ignorance. Nay, there are thofe who call theni the Sons of Perdition and make them men of no Confci- ence. Some have queftioned whe- ther they may marry a Conformift; as if they were the people of a ftrange God. To hear fuch a Minifter they look upon as a great crime : at leaft they think, if any other be to be found, they muft go to the iton-coiz- formifty. the Friendly Debate, 5^9 formi({, though far the weaker man. And as if they thought that to be god- linefs in themfelves which they call tyranny in other men ; there are fome that impofc this upon their Children, - never to hear the Common-Prayer : and charge them, as I have heard, upon their bleffing, to obey them in Ithis Command. And when for very Ihame they cannot but acknowledg the gifts of fome Minifters; then they limit the ufe of them only to the information of mens Minds in the letter of the Scripture and difcover- ing grofs fins : but that they may convert Souls, and work Faith and Repentance in them, they very much doubt, if not flatly deny. Nay, fo far doth this conceit carry fome of them , that they will fcarce give a friendly countenance or falutation to us : and they commonly call any fmall company of their own party ; the Churchy the people of God, the Chriftians of fuch a town : as if we had no portion in Chrift, but they had got him wholly to themfelves. A a 4 Thcfc jtfo A Continuation of Thefe Humours were obferved in the old Separatifls ; and fince they abound in you alfo, there is great need to warn you to purgout theoldleven, left it be tranfmitted from generation to generation. N. c/ But though a fet Form be lawful , yet it is ufelefs ; becaufe there is no ableMinifter that needs one, and we ought not to provide Crutches for thofe that are not able, but rather remove them. C. You would fain be Governors I fee, not fubjeBs; and we fhould have fine doings if you were in the Throne : unlefs you were as wife and honeftas fome of your Predeceflbrs have been, who made this difcreet anfvver to your Exception. There may he good Minifters, who want the gift of extemporary conceptions of Pray- er ; and by confe que nee need a For m.¥ or pr'aorfsS^-^"^^'^ fetting down the requifites Licenfed by to a Bifliop (faith Mr. Geree"^ ) i Tim, Mr. Cran-- rt^- - i - - tordandde- 3. I lit, neither names nor intimates Mrffuch? this for one of them. And where capei An. j-j^g Sciipture fpeaks of Minifterial girts the Friendly Debate] 3 (5 1 gifts given to the edification of the Church ; this gift of prayer is never mentioned. * Tell nae then,if a man • i corinth. have all that St. Fanl requires in a 'C^.^l'^'lj. Bifliop, and yet wants this gift, is8-£phef:4. healawfulMinifterofthe Gofpel or not ? No doubt there are fuch, who cannot exprefs themfelves without confufion, or to the edification of others without the help of a Form : And experience tells us very excel- lent men have conftantly tyed them- felves to it. As Dr. Taylor a couragi- ous witnefs to the Truth, ufcd the Communion Book even in private when he was in Prifon,and bequeathed it as a Legacy to his Wife. He in- ftancesalfo in Vr.Sihs andMr.i///- der(ham who ufcd conftantly one form of prayer before their Sermons. And I find indeed the twolaft Ser-^ monsof the Dodlor fent abroad byjohnT.put two eminent men wich that Prayer ^h^cwd: before them '^. winandMr. ■Plulip Nye and dedicated ro my Lord of Warwick. Bv which you may fee the A 0= fembly were much out of die way, when tliey told \ ou, the Lord Jefus flirniflies all thofe whom he calls to the Miniftry \yith this gift of Prayer. Or elfethefe men were among the icile and unedifying Min'iftry who did not put forth theniilelves to e'Jcercifc theif gift. Preface' to the Dirctflory. N. c. I 3^2 A Contimatm of iV. c 1 have many things to {^y about Forms of Prayer, and yours in particular; cfpecially about the im- pofing them; if you have the pati- ( enee to hear me. C. With all my heart : Onlycon- tra<3: what you have to fay, becaufe I have fome bufinefs ftayes for me. N, C. You have (cen a Book I per- ceive which hinders feveral perfons, I am told, from joyning with you ; and they think itunanfwerable. C, What Goliah fliould that be ? N c. It is called. Common Prayer- Book Devotions, Epifcopal Delufions, Or the Second Death of the Service Book, c\ A terrible, Giant-like Title. N. c.The preface too, which feems to call your Minifters the Sons of Per- dition, as you juft now noted. C, O, i remember now ; it is faid by his Friends to be writ by Mr. J. Goodwin \ and printed in the wonder- ful year 1666. when they thought to fee us tumble down with a powder. N^C.lt the Friendly Debate. '5^3 N. C, It is full of his peculiar phra- fes, and therefore , C I ap not concern'd at all who was the Author : Let's confider what he fayes. 1 took it ro be a piece fo foul and fcurrilous; nay fo pro- phaneandblafphemousagainft thofe Devotions wherein fo many thou- fand Souls offer up themfelves to God ; that I never expedled to hear you name it without abhorrence. N. C. You pafs a very hard fen- tence on it. C. If you had read the two firft leaves ferioufly, you would not fay fo. Where, as if he imagined him- fclFmaTemif 'Court: when he chanc't to peep into a Church, he rudely calls the Minifters and Peoples anfwering one another, Bandying and toffing vf Devotions too and again ( a witty exprefllon you think, but borrowed alas, as the reft of his Book, from the Railers that were before him "^ ) *itisas old Nay, his fancy ftept immediately nwnitionin from thence into an Ale-houfe ; and bc'th^^mie, he tells us that thefe Dezotions, much refemr 154 "^ Continuation oj ^ refemhle the jolly Scene of a fet of Ale inffired comp anions y chanting their drunken Catches upon a Bench, Which isfucha leud and impious Scoff at the Devotions infpired by the Holy- Ghoft ( which directed the Antient -»» Exod.i.^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^ anfwer one another *'^) ai.isRev.s'that, to fpeak in Mr. J, Goodwins phrafe, he mufl: be the firft born of prophanefs, who can deliberately commend fuch writings. N. C. But what do you fay to the reft of the Book. C. I fay he was in fuch a choller when he writ it, that he minded not what he faid. Do but read thofe words in the fecond page, and tell me your judgment. Ihe Liturgy «■ he?poft-^^^^^^9' ^ of things no more jit to be ^J^^^^"^^^^^ moulded together into the fame Body is, when cf Evangelical Worfhip, than an Ox and this would Ary 1 r i i i / have been an Jjs to be yoked together, under the fufficient. jr^^^^ yf^^ fervice in the fame Plough : Canonicals and Apocryphals ; the liea- uenlyfayingsofChrift and the fabulous reports of Tobit ; the Pfalms of David, and the Song 0/5. A mbrofe, Magnificat and Quicunque volte A^ C I the Friendly Debate [ 3 5 j' N. C. 1 remember the words. C And would not anybody think that, according to this triumphant writer. Magnificat (the fong of the blefled Virgin ) was no more Divine than the ftory of lohit and the Dog ? elfe it fliould not have been fpt in op- pofition to the Pfalms of David, like an Afs againft an Ox , and as a thing unmeet to accompany the Scriptures in the fervice of God. Behold to what folly he was betray'd by his heat and paflion ! which made him like a t*tging wave of the Sea foaming out his onnfhame ; and moved him to befpat-; ter all things in the Common-Pray- er-book, even the holy Word of God it felf. N. C. This is very Arrange : me- thinks he fliould have took more care C. Not at all. For he knew he had a company of credulous follow- ers, that would lick up his vomit, and digeft any thing that he faid. It were eafie 1 doubt not to teach many of them to rail upon Magnificat, or A^unc '^66 A Continuation of Nunc Dimhtisy as if they were but certain Drunken Catches. N C, You are too fevere. C. 1 abhor Icverity where gentle- nefs is the proper cure. But St. Paul tells titus that unruly , and vain tal- kers y and deceivers muft be rehuked Jharplyy iTit. 15. And there needs no other witnefs that there are fucha* mong thctn(vphofe mouths muft beftopt) than the Preface to the Book : a con- fident Ignoramus ; who ftruts as if he were fome great man , and makes a ratling with his bigg words as if he ^had fome mighty matter to tell us ; but in efFecft hath juft nothing, ex- cept two or three grofs and palpable falflioods , of which I will make him afham'd if he have not a very brazen forehead. N, C. Do you think he would lye for Chrift ? G. I think he is a bold and vain talker of things he underftands not : what more , do you judge when you have heard what I have to fay. If the Book was writ by the perfon before nam'd. ihf Friendly Debate] ^^j nam*d,as his Difciples affirm,then he tells us one Notorious tale when he faith , Tke Juthor ended his dayes in a kind of Exile , for adhering to this truth, defended in his Book, viz. Thaf nothing ought to be impofed in the wor- /hip of God. For it's well known by all that underftand any thing of our aflfairs, that Mr. J. Goodwin fuffered no banilhment of any kind ; but was difabled from his office ( though there had been no Common-Prayer) for intermedling fo much in* the late Civil quarrels, and writing a Book to juftifie the horrid murder of our late Soveraign. But to let him pafs. He asks us , you remember , Where were more learned y more gold ly men in the World , than Cartwright, Parker, Reynolds , Greenham , Ames ? And who knoweth not that thefe and many ! more of the fame heavenly fl amp, fuffe- red extream Perfecution , Deprivati- ons and Banifl^ments , rather than they would touch with the Graven Image Sp the work of the Cr^ftimen , that then werci and now are n the fnares aud nets upon 3d8 A Continuation of upon Mifpeh and Tabor ? iVi c. I remember them very well. C. And is he not an abominable reviler in reproaching us with Idola- try , and the worfhipping of Graven Images ? N^C. But where are the Falf- hoods ? C* Is that none think you? But thofe I now intend are , that he makes thofe men againft a ftinted form of worfliip who were for it ; and to fuffer extream perfecution on that account who fuffered none at all, much lefs Banifhment. Other untruths there are, but thefe are fufficient to make him blufh , if he have any of that vertuous colour left. N. C. Was not Cartwright of his mind. c. No. For he declared his mean- ing was not to difallow of a prefcript form of Prayer y and an uniform Order in the Church. His quarrel was on- ly with fome things in our Service- Book. But yet he profefled he did not the Friendly Debate. ^^p not oppofe the Ceremonies as Amply unlawful , but only as inconvenient. And therefore perfWaded the Preach- ers rather to wear the Surplifs thaa ceafe their Miniftry, and the people to receive the Sacrament kneeling, if they could not have it otherwayes : becaufe though thatgefture was, as he conceived , incommodious , yet not (imply unlawful. All which and a great deal more I will prove out of his own works and other good Au- thors, if it be contradit5led ; as alfo that he loft his Profeflbrs place at Cambridge upon other accounts, and after all went to Warwick where he was born , and dyed in the difcharge of his Office as their Minifter. And "iAr.Edwards I remember tells us that he citing a paflage out of Mr. Cart- wrights Comments on the Proverbs y in a Sermon he preached a little be- fore the wars to perfwade the people to take heed of the WhiteDevil,\\z.the fe par at ionupon greater pretence of Pa- rity ; Mr* John Goodwin came to him when he had done , and gave him B b great V-n o A ContinmHon of great thanks for it. As for Mr. Far- ker, he indeed went further and faid the Ceremonies were unlawful either tobeimpofed, orufed. But he was far from being fo great a SchoUar as this man fancies ; at leaft his learn- ing was not well digefted, For ta- king upon him to maintain that Fopijh Idolatry is every whit as bad as Pagan , he brings a paf- fage out of Saint jfuftin to juftific this, that a Heretick is worfe than a Pagan, Which are the words of a- nother man, whom St. Auftin in that place confutes , and asks him by what rule he concluded this, feeing our Lord faid , if he hear not the Church let him be to thee as an ilea- then, not worfe than an Heathen. By which you may fee how forward men of this fpirlt are , to catch at any thing that may feem to favour their Opinions , and to make a fliew of learning when they think it will ferve then^ , though they flight and undervalue it as a carnal weapon, when it is in their Adverfaries hands. And the Friendly Debate^. 3 -7 And if I thought this man under- flood him, 1 fhould imagine he had learnt oiyii.Parker to magnifie thofe of his own party beyond their de- ferts : For he extols the refufing of conformity as fuch a fingular piece of fervice done to God, that he com- pares fuch perfons as were therefore deprived, to Davids Worthies, and the three hundred men that followed Gideon. Moft bfave flourilhes ! How can you chufe but yield your felf captive to fuch champions', be- lieving this Prefacer upon his word> that thofe he Mufters up were in the number of the Worthies, But he be* lies Mr. Greenham too ; as I am able to prove from good Teftimony , even from himfelf But for brevities fake I {hall only let you know that Dr. ^^ Burges aflures us , that on his own knowledge and in his hearing, Mr, Greenham denied to perfwade any man againft the ufe of the Ceremo- nies; and profefled he would be loth to be put to the folution of this Ob ^ jecftion (n^s he called it) wear the Sur- Bb 2 fltfs, Wn2 A Continuation of plifs , or preach not. Which is an argument that though he did not like them , yet he did not hold them j unlawful , much lefs Idolatrous, as this Ignorant Writer would per- fwade us. 1 can prove alfo that he abufes Dr. 'jimes , but that I make haft to tell you , the moft palpable forgery of all , is the putting Dr. Keynolds into the Catalogue of his ^jkighty Men. 'And fince he pre- tends to underftand Latine, I will fend him for his more full convi(5lion to an Author no lefs learned than that excellent Dodlor, and a far better Schollar than any of the reft ; and that is Dr. Rich. Crackanthorp, who tells the Archbifliop of Spalato that the Doiflor was no Puritan ( as Defenf. Ec« "^e Called him) but he himfelf a Calu- AngUcan^ ^^^^^^or. For firff, he profefiTed that &c.cap.69. he appeared unwillingly inthecaufe An?*i62s*. at Hampton Court , and merely in o- bedience to the Kings command. And then , he fpake not one word there againft the Hierarchy. Nay, he ac- knowledged it to be confonant to the word I the Friendly Debate. 373 word of God, in his conference with Hart, And in an Anfwer to Sanders his Book, o£ tht Schffm of Erjj^lajul; (which is in the Archbifhops Libra- ry) he profefles that he approves of the Book of Corjfe era ting and ordering Bifhops , Priefts and Deacons, He was a ftridl obferveralfo of all the Orders of the Church and Llniverfi- ty, both in publick and his own Col- ledge : wearing thp Square Cap and Surplifs, Kneeling at the Sacrament, and he himfelf connmemorating their Benefadlors at the times their Sta- tutes appointed , and reading that Chapter out of Ecclepafticas , which is on fuch occafionsufed. In a let- ter alfo of his to Archbifliop Ban- croft (then in 'Dr. Crackanthorps hands) he profefles himfelf conformable to the Church of England willingly and from hif heart , his Confcience ad- monifliing him fo to be. And thus he remained perfwaded to his laft breath ; defiring to receive jibfoluti- on according to the manner prefcrib- edinour Liturgy, when he lay on Bb 3 his 2 HA ^A ContimaHon of his Death-Bed. Which he did from Dr. Holland the Kings Profeflbr in Oxford ; kifling his hand in token of his Love &Joy,and within a few hours after refigned up his Soul to God. What think you now ; was Dr. Rey- mlds one of thofe that abominated our Worfhip, fufiFered extream per- fecution , deprivation and hanijhment too ? Or muft he that lately flood a- mong the moji karned and godly men in the world , be now blotted out, and put in the black lift of Idolaters md touchers with Graven Images i What fay you ? Will you never fee how thefe men deceive you ? Muft the moft knowing men on our fide, that report things to us from folid teftimony , be thought lyars ; and thefe impudent fots be believed on their bare word ? N. C. I am convinced he under^ flood nothing of thefe matters. C, And yet he writes like a Tea- cher ; though I believe he never flu- died their own writers about thefe poiiits. If he had ; the fijenced Mi- pifter^ the tnenaiy Uebate . 375 nifters in thofe days would have taught him a great part of what I have faid» For they have told us ia Print, ^ t\i^t^lofi of thofe ^/^^''^/*- * chriitian fters appointed to fpeak for them at [^i;:'^^^^^,^;^ Hampton Court , were not of their call it) of I r TIT • • /v I tiie lilenced chujwgy or Nomination , or Judgment M,niftors,m in the matters then in queilion ; but c'aji'foranS of a clear contrary. For being intrea- J^^^j^^^'^pJJ; ^ ted at that time to difpute againfti6o6.* thofe things asfimplyevilandfucha^ could not he yielded to without fin, they profefled to them, they were not fo perfwaded , and therefore could not do fo. And being then requefted to let his Majefty underftand, that fome of their Brethren were further perfwad- ed touching the unlawfulnefs of thofe things than themfelves, they refufed that alfo. Now I would fain know of this Epiftler, whether he do not think Dr. Reynolds was one of thofe Mofi ? and whether he do not fee that fuch men as he were afhamed the King (houldknow, that any of theNon- conformifts ( to whom they wiflit well ) were fo weak as to call Bb 4 the 3 7 6^ A Continuation of the things in difference limply e- N.C. 1 think you had beft dif- mifs this man. What fay you to the Arguments in the Book it felf ? C. Where fliall we find them? There are ftrains of railing Rheto- rick , ill applied fimilitudes (which are the common way of deceiving) abufed Scriptures ; loofe inconse- quent reafonings ; in a word , no arguments, that do not prove a great deal too much. J\r.G. Methinks there is fome- thing in that, p. 4. That it is impoffi- lie for a man to keep up his heart fo much as in a toller able poflure of Devo- tion y reverence and attention to fuch Prayers, as having heenfrar/id hy men^ and thofe no more excellent than their neighbours , are grovpn familiar to us, und can he [aid by roat beforehand, vre having heard them a thoufand times already. C. Nothing at all. For by whom ^re their prayers framed ? Are they Angels the Friendly Debate] 377 Angels or glorified Saints in the Church Triumphant, that muft not have the name of Men f Or dare they fay the Spirit frames them ? And do they not repeat for ever the fame phrafes, only not put together al- ways in the fame Order f How many thoufand times have you heard them beg, that they might prize Chrifi more, and Ordiuances more, and Sab- baths more , and a number of fuch like things as thefe ? And befides all this , what fay you to the Pfalms of David? Could no man anciently joyn devoutely in finging them , be- caufe they were fo often repeated, and fo well known that the Jews had them by heart ? MC. I cannot tell; But God him- felf, he faith, judges it necejfary to con- fiilt his glory ( I mean a Religious awe, reverence and efleem to his counfels and works from men) by concealing the one and the other , till the time of their bringing forth , that fo they may come frefh and new to them. What fay you to that ? CI S -78 -^ Continuation oj a I fay he doth not write fenfe, for iri?as if he had told us, that God doth not reveal his Counfels , till he reveal them. J\f,Q But you may guefs at his meaning; that God keeps fecret what he intends to do, till he bring it to pafs. C. That's falfe. For he foretold many things by the Prophets. But were it altogether true ; it's nothing to the purpofe. For though he fur- prifes us fometimes with events we never thought of, and could not foiefee ; and will not al- ways let us know what he intends to do : yet he doth not judge it necefla- ry to conceal his will , concerning that which we are to do. No ; quite contrary. He judges it neceflary to declare it, and hath made no new De- claration fince the Apoftles times. And yet we may have a Religious re- verence, fure, to his Counfels re- vealed in his word, though they come not frefli and new to us. If we can- not; all that 1 have to fay is, that then the Friendly Debate. '^ng then the fame Exception lyes a- gainft therriy which you bring againft the Common -Prayer, Nor are your own Prayers fo Frelh and new as he pretends ; but we know beforehand the moft you have to fay ; only you have fome new invented words and phrafes which fometimes give usjuft difguft. N. C. Doth not our Saviour fay, M^^. 13.52. that every Scrihe y every Teacher , inJiruBed to the kingdom of heaven, i.e, meetly qualified for the work of the Miniftry of the Gofpel, is like to a man that brings forth out of his Treafures , things new and old ? C. What of all that? A^. C. Doubt lefs our Saviour fpoks it upon this jiccount , as he tells you. C Doubtlefs he was full of fancy (as well as the reft of his Brethren) which laid hold of every thing with- out any rcafon, if itwouldbutmiake a fliew , and ferve to countenance their wild opinions. Elfe he would have eafily feen that our Lord fpcaks of ngo A Cmtinmion of of his Apoftles and Evangelifts, who were furnifh'd with abilities to pro- pagate the Gofpel , both by their knowledge in the Old Revelations in the ancient Scriptures , and in the new, which he made unto them. iNT. C. But the Liturgy fmells rank of the Popi/h ^SMafs-Book which alone is fufficient to make it the ahharing of their fouls that underfland any thing of thefeverity of the Divine jealoujie ,8cc. C. The old N. C were not afFrigh- ted with fuch terrible Nothings as thefe. But told our Englifh Dona- iifis (the Brownifis) who objected this : That it was more proper to fay the Mafs-Book was added to our Common- prayer than that our Common-Prayer was taken out of the M^fs-Book, For moft things in our Common-Prayer were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church , long before this Mafs- Book, you talk of, was heard of in the world. TheMafs was patched up by degrees and added to the Li- turgies or the Church; now one peice* the Friendly Debate^, '5 8 1 peicc , then another. And if a true man may challenge his goods where- foever he finds them , which the thief hath drawn into his Den ; then the Church of God may lawfully lay claim to thofe holy things which the Church of Rome hath uTurped , and fnatch them away from among the trafli wherewith they are mingled. A great deal more to the fame purpofe you may find in Mr. John B^fl'^^which ^ I cannot now ftand to tell you. The Lif iyS.^° fum is this; "That Popery is ^tctibfj^'^l^' *' or Leprofie that cleaves to the M'^- v^ *' Church. It moftly ftands in erro- ' ^^^'^* " neous y faulty , grofs and abomi- " nable fuperftrudtures upon the ^^ true Foundation , whereby they *'poyfon, or overthrow the founda- " tion it felf But take away the " fuperftrudlures and the foundati- '^'on remains : remove the leprofie '^ and the man is found. N". c. You talk of Liturgies in the ancient Church : we read of none in the Apoftles time. C True n22 A Continuation of C. True : But as the fame perfon 2*^^*Pf^^- ingenioufly confcfles, "^"^ they might be, though we read nothing of them. For the Apoftles have not fet down a Catalogue of all and every particu- lar Order that was in the Church. However, afetformof Pmyer to be ufedin publick meetings is not un- lawful, becaufe it is of the number of things which God hath not deter- mined in his Word, '^c, jind as to call that Holy which God hath not com- mand ed is Super flit ions y fo it is errone- ous to condemn that as unholy or pro- phane which God allows, or is confonant to his Wordy though not precifely com- manded- N, C. It is a common opinion that Liturgy is a novel Invention in the dayes of blindnefs and lazinefs, in fa- vour of Idle and debauched Priefts. C. You are all as learned as the Prefaces to your Book. But you might be more truly learned if you would read the Author now mentioned; who tells you that though it's hard to determine the precife antiquity of ftinted the Friendly Debate'. '383 ftinted Liturgies ; yet that they have becninufe in the Chriftian Church for the fpace of 1400. years if not above, no man can deny. And that they could not be invented for fuch ends as you imagine , becaufe the chief promoters of ftinted Liturgies were. renowned for their conftant and unwed- ried preaching every day in the week, and fometimes twice ^. The New*ib.'pag.it. EnglandMinifters would have taught you more ; for all they dare fay a- gainft the Antiquity of Liturgies is, that/or about an hundred years there were none a : Then your Dialofue-wa- , ^ 1111 1 "^ 1 ^ ^^^ ^ ker h tells you they came in; but^epiyand hath the impudence to add, that Mi- bout^lp^- nifters then grew idle and weary of b''"^P^s-2- taking pains. Hughes, AT. C. Iti^ afadthingtherejhouldhe fuch endlef^dij^utes : Surely if they that compofed the Common- Fr ay er had dreamt that it would create fo many divijjons, diflraBions, tmnults, confu- fions, &c. they would never have found either heart or hand to lift up toward the promoting of it. p^g.S, C.An 284 -^ Continuation of r. An admirable Argument ! As if he had faid , The Pen-men of Holy Scripture would never have writ as they have done ; if they had but fore- feen what ill ufe would be made of their words, what Wranglings and Difputes they would raife, and how they would be wrefted and tortured to a fenfe which they never thought of. Mull: the poflibility of an incon- venience that may grow , hinder us from doing good things ? M^C. No. But there is no good comes of this. For they who like this kind cfWorfhip are generally Ignorant ^ Prophane, Superfiitioas, Jime-ferverSy Fearful, Unbelievers y Haters of thofe that are good, Drunkards, j{dulte' rers, &c. C. I know he faith fo : and repeats it a little after;, th^t they aregenlrally if not uuiverfally perfons much efiranged from the life of God, ajfeBionate lovers cfthis prefent World* But we know withal that there is a vafl: number of Ignorant revilers, railers, lyars, falfe- accufers, covenant Breakers, proud cenfu- the Friendly Dehitte. -^^j Cenfurers of their Brethren, uncha- ritable, contentious, implacablcj, felf-conceited , greedy fcrapers of wealth, b^c. Who love the other kind of IVorJhipy and like no Prayer^ but thofe of their own conceiving. Doth not this Argument w/tr /Irongly (as his phrafe is) againft fuch a worfliip ; artd u U not a great prefump- tion of the carnality of it, that it com* ports vpith the humours, fancies and Confciences of men of fuch an evil Spi- rit^ Ifyou like not fuchReafonings againft the prayers of your invention j let them alone when you difpute againft ours. But 1 itiuft tell you however that this man, let him be who he will, hath committed a moft hainous fin, and is prefumptuoufly uncharitable in judging the Generali- ty, tf not all, of us to be ungodly. We know the contrary, and are af- fured that there are more than one of a City, or two of a Tribe (as he loves to fpeak) that are truly confcientious, and ferve God in this way which he fo fcorns, with much fktisfac5iion C c and :585 A Continumn of and joy of heart. And all fober men I think, will look upon it as an intol- lerable piece of Pride in him to fay> thatit if hardly credible any man fear* ing God ( if there be any fuch among us ) jhould partake at any time in thif worjhip with any great contentment. This is to meafure other mens Corn by your own Bufliel. A piece of the old leven of the Scribes and Fharifees, or if you will, the Separatifis here in England before he was born : to whom Mr. Gyjford anfwcred then as we do M^!^reen.° novp"^ / It cannot be denyed but that groans and tears f who read the Prayer upon the Booky or have it oiweufe to fayy by heart, N,c. But if your prayer Book were as free from blemifli as Abfolom^ nay, if it had been compofed ^ a General Council oiEleB Angels ; the impofwg of it would be imperious Blaf- phemy, and the ufe of it a^ impofed? hafe and wretched Idolatry, C, Go and find fome child to fright with your blufteringLanguage. i\z;c.it the Friendly Debate, jg-y iV". C. It is more than noife. For he tells you (pd^* ii.) that it if as well or 04 much the incommunicable pri- TJtledge or prerogative of God to pre- fer ihe, appoint and command hif onn vporjhipy a$ it is to be worjhipped, ^nd therefore whofoever /hall authoritatively under any penalties command any Form, Model, Method or Manner of Divine Worjhip makes himfelfGod ; and vphofo- everfubmitstofuchWor/hipuan Idola- ter, hecdufe he gives that honour to a creature tvhich is due to God alone. What have you to fay againft this Argument ? c. I fay that as no body doubts but God, who is above all, hath a right to appoint his ojvn Worjhip, fo it is as certain that he hath not appointed any model of Worjhip or form of words to be ufed in Prayer and none clfe* Nor hath he told us that he will n^Dt: bewor/hippedbyafet Fonii, or that we muft vary our words and phrafcs, ; and conceal what we have to fay to him till we bring it forth. And therefore I fay he hath left it to ourfober and C c Z Reli- 388 A Continuation of Religious Reafon to determine after what manner thatworfliip which he requires may be beft performed. And if not to every mans reafon (which would be abfurd ) then thofe who govern the reft are toconfider how chriftian Societies when they meet together may moft folemnly pray in the name of our Lord Jefus for fuch things as arc according to Gods will ; and give thanks alfo to God the Fa- ther thorough him. And confe- quently it is no incommunicable pre- rogative to appoint a Form or Order of Divine Worlhip, fince God hath not appointed one himfelf, and yet muft not be worfliipped diforderly. And if it maybe appointed, then it may be appointed under penalties, to keep men from wanton contempt of the publick Reafon. Mr. J. G. you remember compofed a hymn to be fung on a day of Thanksgiving in his Congregation. This was a form, and authoritatively impofedjelfe every one there might have brought forth his hymn and put all into confufion: which thf Friendly Debate] 389. which if they had done they might juftly have been cenfured by him,if he had had any power. Now I would fain know why the Magiftrate may not prefcribe the Song of 55t. Amhrofe or any other godly Hymn to be fung by all Congregations committed to his charge; as well as one Minifter pre- fcribe an hymn to his particular Con- gregation? and why the Magiftrate may not ufe all his power and punifli as he fees caufe ; as well as fuch a Minifter ufe all his (who could only reprove) in cafe of contempt? I would know alfo how this Author could excufe the whole Ghriftian World from being Idolaters, you Presbyterians not excepted, if his Docflrine be true. For the Parlia- ment prefcribed the DireBory, and that not without penalties, as a mo- del or manner of Divine Worfhip : and fo they ufurped the place of God ; and youv^ho fubmittcdto their orders, v Worfljipped the creature and .faid con- *~ ftruc5lively and in effe^il ( if he reafo.i) right ) to the Parliament, thou art C c 5 my 3 p o A Comimation of my God, or [ acknowledg and own thee for my God, JSf.C. I remember the words, pag. 12. c. And what would have become of you, if after this dreadful fentence, he had not in an extraordinary fit of good nature revoked it; and al- lowed the ufe of a prefcribed form ? For though he fay that conceived pray- er, for the nature and kind of it, is that very w or/hip which God Commands, Yet, as he doth not prove it, fo he affirms it not confidently, without thi$ reftrid:ion ; atleafito thofethat are, or hy the ufe of means may he, ca- pable of it, p. -^o. Very kindly faid, I perceive this gift then of conceiving prayer is but natural, and no divine infpiration : and where nature is not ready in its conceptions, it may be relieved by the help of Art : and fome may be uncapable of it, whatfo- ever means they ufe to acquire this gift. And confequently conceived prayer is not the Worfhip which for the nature and kind of it, God com- mands ; the friendly Debate: 3p'l mands ; becaufe he doth not com- mand impoflible things : but another manner of Worfhip byaconftant form may be ufed ; nay impofed too when a Magiftrate judges it needful, and (cQS that thofe who are moft zea- lous for conceived Prayers alone, have generally leaft abilities to con- ceive aright. In fliort he grants, p, f 5*. th?itfiinted forms of Prayer in them- felves, unto fome men y and under fame circumfiances may be lawful: He might as well have faid needful for I fuppofe he thought them lawful, in cafe men could not conceive prayers them- felves, as they ought. And then why may not the circumftances be fuch that they may be needful toalh^ at leaft at fome times, when men of the readieft inventions are indifpo- fed? And mark I befcech you how timoroufly he begins to fpeak after all his vapouring, when he tells us We fl?all hardly find in the Script urCf e^ecially in the New Tefiament, ths. fame Prayer ufed by the fame perfon the. fecond time, \t feems we may find it, G c 4 - if 3?2 "^A Continuation of if we will but take the pains. But tg fave us a labour he prefently remem- bers, that Chrilt prayed the fame words a fecond and third time : which he excufes thus ; by the fame words we are to underftand the fame in fenfe, matter and import, but not in found, letters orfyllables. How he came to know this I cannot tell: for my pait 1 believe our Saviour was not concerned about new words when he had the fame thing to fay again. But the like peremptory conclufion he makes concerning all the exhortati- ons to prayer delivered by Chrift or hiS Apoftles : which he faith were in- tended only of that kind of prayer which the Saints were to conceive and indite ly the help of the Spirit ^ which they who believed did receive. Tocountenance this he cites a great many Scriptures, and tells us that thofe places ( at leaft the mioft of them) cannot be underftood of the Miraculous gifts of the Holy Ghofl, tS'c, which is fonotroriouflyfalfe that I wonder hp had the confidence to^ aflSrni the Friendly Debate^. 3 9 j affirm it. The firfi is Joh, 7. 59. the fiext, AB. 5*. 32. which no man I think before him ever undcrftood othcrwife than of the extraordinary gifts be- ftow'd on the day of Pcntecott. And of fuch gifts the Apoftle fpeaks in the S.Rom.f, zCor. ^. ^. Gal.-^.i. JLphef. I. 13. In fliort, there is but one place of all that hemuftersup, that can with any colour be drawn to ferve his purpofe, ^7;s. Rom.% X4>i5'' And yet to me there is no Senfe fo plain of thofe words as this ; that the gifts of the Holy Ghoft being a great Evidence of the truth of Clwiftianity, all they that lived accordingly, might be aflured of the love of God ; and whether they were J^wes or Gentiles might call God Father, though they obferved not the Law oiMofes, But 1 moft marvel that he fhould alledg that place in i Joh.i.ij, which the Brownijfs, 1 remember, were wont to cite ( and with more Ihew of reafon ) to prove that every Saint had the Ho- ly Spirit to open to them, and lead them into every truth. To vyhich if you ^p A A Cominmion of you pleafe you fliall hear what the Old NoHconformift replyed. N. c. I had rather hear what you can reply to the Scriptures which he brings to prove, that therefore God abomindtes a vporjhip or a form and man- per ofWorJkipf hecaufe he hath not com- manded it. Though the Worfhip were in its own nature abominable, yet he takes no notice of that ; but only of its not being commanded, which as align the provocation lyes there. c. 1 remember the places very well ; and remember withal that this is a miferable old argument which hath been anfwercd many a time be- fore he fet pen to Paper. And it hath been proved with plain Evidence, that the meaning of the words , Tvhich I commanded not, is as much as, which I forbad : as he had exprefly their of- fering their children to Molock, of which he fpeaks in that 7. Jer. 3 i. So when it's faid that they offer'd ftrange fire vphich the Lord commanded not. Lev, 10. I. all conclude that lefs is . faid I the Friendly Debcit?. 39^ /aid and more undcrftood, viz. that the Lord had forbidden it. Mr. Ain- [worth himfclt cannot deny it, who yet makes the fame ufc of this phrafe fometimes that this Author doth. And indeed a man muft flatly contra- dict all reafon that oppofes this. For when he fpeaks of thofe that fliould worfhip other Gods, Sun and Moon which he had not commanded, Deut. 17. 3. it is fencclefs to interpret it o- thcrwife than this ; v^hich he had for- hiddett,¥oi if this was the reafon why a man finned in worlhipping the Moon, that he did it without Gods leave or Cpmmand ; it would fuppofe that God might have commanded them to worfhip it and ferve other Gods : which no body imagins. All thofe places therefore, which he al ledges to prove tliat Gods not commanding a thing is enough to make it unlawful, amount to no more but this ; that his forbidding a thing makes it unlaw- Iful. N. C. But we ought to interpret the Scripture according to the very form ^g6 A Continuation of form of the words ; and fo, that is unlawful which is not commanded. c, Juft now you were only for the fcnfeand the matter, not the words and fylkbles. But to let that pafs ; I have fhown you this is a falhion of Speech in the Qld Tefiament for a thing forbidden. And befides, the abfurdity of your Interpretation is fo great, tiat the wifer fort of that party who firft ufed this argument were forced afterward to forfake it: as I can clearly demonftrate out of Mr. Cartvpright, And indeed where hath the Lord commanded a Minifter to read a Text and glofs upon it ; or the Congregation tofing the Ffalms of David in Metre ? Mr. Smith can ne- ver be anfwered by thefe Difputers, who faid that the Holy Scriptures were not to be retained as helps be- fore the eyes in time of worfliip : and that it was unlawful to look upon a Book in finging Pfalms. Nor could they have told what to fay to that poor Gentleman in Warwick- fhire, who was fo deeply poffefled with thefe two the Friendly Debate] '39 y two fancies, that we mufl not commu- fticatc withfinners : nor ufe any humane inventions in Gods Service ; that to * avoid the firft he fliut up himfelf and children in his houfe, having no meat but what was put in at the window j nor fuflfering any body to come r\ear them when they all layfick in great mifery : and to avoid the laft, he cut out the Contents and the Titles of every thing in the Bible, leaving nothing but the lext it felf ^. *^^^ Bali N. c. Doth not God fay thou (halt Anfw. to • / » 1 / I- • -/r y- Can. p. 138. neither add thereto nor dimtnifh from it? Peut. 12. 32. i C What? not add Contents, or Notes for the better underftanding df the Bible? N. c. Nothing to the worfliip of God, of which hi« own Word i^ to De the only rule* and n0t the leaft ritle to be devifed of our own. C, Why do you only fay to his Vorjhip? You learnt this of Mr. i/i^- vportb the old Separatift, who moft injuftly reflrains thofe worcJ$ to 3ad*s Service ; ^yheieas Mofe/ fpt^s of . ^pg A Contimmm of of every thing he had received from him, whether they were Statutes or Judgments as you may fee, v.x. In one word, of the whole Law, which was to diredl them not only in Reli- * D?uV?A.g^^"^ but civil Affairs *. And there- where 'he fore this place is as efJedlual to prove cStation that there may be no Law made to de- hisLawsr termine our civil controverfies, as j:j*3uiring ^[jjj^ there may be none made to order them not to t««Tn to addordi- Gods Wormip and Service. And Sy ofthoii then what hinders but thofe men may obtain their defires who told you late- ly, it will never be well till the Laws of the Lord Jefus be received alone ? That all ourCounfellors and Pleaders bring their Books of Common Law and beftow them as the Students of Curious Arts did theirs in the Apo- ftles time i That the Godly fend out their writs to fuperfede all proceed- ings in Weflminfier-Hall and judg all things in their Churches ? lif. c. The State will never fuffer. that Folly. C. Nor this foolifli interpretatioi of Scripture, I hope. The Jews ai the Friendly Debate] jpjj am fure ( from whom Mr. Ainfrv&rth borrows fo many ufcful cxpofitions) never thought that no particular Laws might be made agreeable to the General , and for the prefervation and better execution of them. For the Elders made many ; and impofed thofe commandments on the people as a hedge and fecurity to the Divine Laws; and in this they did well. All the fault was that in prucefs of time they grew too numerous, and they equalled the decrees of the Elders with the very word of God , nay fometimes made the Law void by them. N. C. Since you fay you are in haft: to be gone, Vie trouble you no farther about this Book : though there are many things behind that deferve confideration. C. I am not of that mind. He hath but raked to gather all the frivo- lous exceptions , with the filthy feoffs and jeers which were anfwcred in the days of our Forefathers : and arc as ealie to confute as to tell to Twenty, [^00 A Contimation of Twenty, But let me tell you thi^ before we part with him, that Mr J. Goodwin was not wont to allow rea- fons drawn from the Jewijh Law (though all the lofty Rheti)rick in this Book be drawn from it) becaufe the ftate of things now is not like wh«t was then. He tells us for in- ftance in his Hagiomafiix , that though blafphemers, feducers to Ido- latry , and falfe Prophets were put to death by that Law, yet we have not the fame reafon to do fo now ; becaufe they might immediately con- fult with God in all difficult cafes that hapned about matters of Reli- gion ; but we have no fuch infallible dire(5lions in all cafes and cannot have difputes fo ended. If this Rea- foning be good, then this is I am fure. God diredled every thing about their Sacrifices in the Jewijh Law, and therefore no Rite or Ceremony was to be added by them , becaufe if any more were needful they might ftill repair to him : But he hath not done fo under the Gof^el , nor do we know to the Friendly Debate] ^o i to what Prophet or Oracle to go for diredlion in every thing ; and there- fore we muft repair to Religious Pru- dence and difcretion. iY. c. I marvel he fhould fpeak with fo much confidence and tri- umph in a matter that is fo difput- able. c. It was the manner and the cu- ftom of the man ( if Mr. J. G. were the Author ) as you may be fatisfied if you look into his jintkav alert fme^ Where he tells you , Ihcre is no occa- sion ^ for a man to make a ft and in mat'*^^„ ^, ter of confcience , whether he Jhould in- gage on the Parliaments fide or no: no- thing doubtful in the cafe ; nothing to detain ones confcience in fufpenfe; the. righteoufnefs of the Caufe being as clear as the light , or as the Sun at noon day^ And to grace the bufinefs with Scrip- ture language, he tells you; the^ Caufe is like to the Larv of God itfelf in thefe excellent qualifications of it ; that it is Holyy juft and good, i\r. c. I never knew any man fpeafc with fuch aflurance in a thipg which Dd dl ^ij o 2 A Continuation of all wife men thought at leaft doubt- ful. C- Well. I put you in mind of it then, that you may not either won- der or be ftaggered when you hear men fpeak with fuch aflurance. For he ufes as big and confident words in another cafe , in which I am fure you are as confident of the contrary, viz. about the putting our Late Soverdign to death. Ihis cortclufion, faith he, fldnds Uke a great mountain immove- able ; that thejuftice and honour of the ^hefmce of fentence again ft the late King are no t^T^'''' rvay impairable by this fuppofition, that ^^^'^^^V' this prefent Parliament is not a com- i^)Vo.^'^\.pleatl\-leqal Parliament, "^ And in gain p.95. another place ; Doubtle(? never was cpntrover^* there an) perfon under heaven fentenced l^t'J^^^.^cir.'^ith death upon more equitable or never Was m ^ ^i- 1 ^ ^ny age juft grounds, in refpeB of guilt and de- whoi? merit (a). Thus he boafts alfo, that Sence^ hc hath brought this Conclufion, more juft, 2f^^p fijQYQ j^^^ a neceffity lying on the <'^^^^vh^p ^^rmy to feclude many Members, into Mi^htover^as clcar and perfedt a light as any the iigh?|,,3oSun fliineth at noon-day (b). M a At the Friendly Debate. '403 N. C' At midnight he fliould have faid. c. No ; let him fay at noon-day. They are but words of courfe ; every thing , though never fo dark, is to him as clear as the noon-day. And therefore no wonder it be fo clear to him that we are all Idolaters ; and that the King in impofing the Com- mon-Prayer hath equalled himfelf un- to Gody and obtruded himfelf a^ God, :o be worfhipped by us as Nebuchad- ie:zzars Golden Image was. For he :old us you know in exprefs words, that whofoever jhall authoritatively and wder a penalty command any model , yiethod, or manner of Divine rporfhip be obferved by men, makes himfelf jody&cc. you may read it at large, p. £1,12. For it is as clear as the Sun. A" C. That fuch Books ought to )e burnt. C Imuftadd that you are all guil- y of too much confidence, and talk LS if you were intallible in your con- ufions. When you fee therefore Dd z the 404 -^ Continuation of the folly of it in another,mend it in your felves. • And do not talk here- after as if all Godly men had ever been oi your mind : No man of a tender Confcience but held it unlaw- ful to prefcribe any thing in Gods worlhip. Every Body knows Cart' vr right y Reynolds y Greenham were of (J this opinion as the Prefacer boldly told you; and it is a wonder he didJR not add Di.Sibhs. For fo fome of your party took care the world fhould be- lieve ; and chofe rather to corrupt his writings , than have it thought he was of another Perfwafion. i\r. C. I fliall never believe it. C, You may chufe : But I fliall prove that this good mans writings were abufed prefently after his death in this very point. For in his Book called the Souls Confli5i , he gave this direction among others to guide a,y/ Soul in doubtful Cafes. Thehavrs }\^ under which ire lize are particular de-^^^ terminations of the Law of God) and i therefore ought to he a rule tons fo far a^ they reach, though it he too narrow)^. ^' Pi: d the Friendly Debate] 405 a Rule to he good, only fo far as mans haw guides unto ; yet haw being the joynt Reafon and confent of many men ""or publick Goody hath an ufe for the raiding of our jfdhons that are under he fame. Where it dajhes not agaiift lods law ; what u agreeable to haw is igreeable to Confcience. Thus the iule flood when the Book firft came )ut ^. But in a very fhort time af- ; ^^'^^Edi. er , when he was newly laid in his P^g- 3«4- ;rave , the nrft words were changed n thefe; The Laws under which we '■ve are particular determinations of the. .aw of God in fame duties of the Se- ond Table. In which they made two :ftrii5tions of that which he had faid 1 General words ; Firft, they re- :ram'd the Rule to the Second Table, id not to all things neither, buton- 'fome duties. And then they add a hole Sentence, hyvis.y of Example, hich was not in the firft Edition: hich I make no doubt was done on irpofe, left any man who read the ook fliould think it was the Dolors 'inion , that we fliould conform to Dd X th^ AQ 6 A Continmtm oj the Orders of our Governours about the worfliip of God , where the Law of God hath determined nothing in particular, and their Laws do not crofs his. But what is there done by the Jefuites worfe than this ? what greater injury to the dead than thus to play tricks with their Books, and change their words at your plea- fure i N.C, It is very ftrnnge. G I have fome thing more to tell you. As they have added here , fo they have taken away in another place juft before it. He isAnfwcr- ing I told you this Queftion, what courfe muft we take for guidance of our lives in particular atftions wherq in Doubts may arife, what is moft greeable to Gods will ? And one Ad- vice is this; vpe muft look to ourplaa wherein God hath fet us. If ire be i\ ftihjeBion to others, their ^Authority in doubtful things ought tofrvay with m. ^ dangerous Rule fome men thought; and therefore in the next Edition^ they left out thofe words in doubtfti things, J the Friendly Debate] 407 things. And alfo blotted out this whole fentence which follows ; It is certain we ought to obey {viz. in doubt- ful things of which he is fpeaking) and if the things wherein we are to ohey he uncertain to U9 ; we ought to leave that which is uncertain , and ftick to that which is certain : In this cafe we mufl obey thofe that are Gods under God. N.C. Are you fure of this? C As fure as that I fee you : though I muft tell you there was a neat device to hide this fraud ; for they reprinted the Book fpeedily with the very fame Title page that wasT^efore and without giving notice, that it was ^ifecond Edition : And by leaving out thofe lines ; and adding an example , as I told you ; to illu- flrrate the rule as they had reftrain'd it, they made the pages exacflly even as they were at the firft. "^ Af- * Thereare terward the Book was divided into ^^o Editi-. Chapters : and in all Editions fince one V Ul own , ano= ther of fome bodies elfe ', butfo ordered that they feem the fame. This J add kit I Hiould no; be underftoo d by all. Dd 4 you '408 A Continuation of you will find thefe Rules (Chapt. 17.) with thefe alterations. M C, By his own appointment, it is like. C. Why did they not tell us fo ? N. C 1 know not. C rie tell you then : They were loth to tell a plain lyeiFor the Do5ior dyed within three days after he had writ his Preface to the firft Impreffi- on ; and therefore it's moft likely made no Alterations. That Preface was dated July the firft 163 j. and he dyed July the fourth. So I gather from thofe who put out his two laft Sermons preached Junezi. and 28. and he dyed, fay they, the Lords day following. Immediately after which came out a tiew impYejJton of the fame year 1^35'. but not called afecond Edition : which they would have us believe was not till 1636. A meer cheat as I confidently affirm , having feen and compared all. i\r. C. I fee now you are of an im- pofing fpirit : and have taken a great deal of pains to flicw it. a What th Friendly Debate] 409 C. What.'* Am I for impofing on men thofe words they never faid ? N,C, Be not fo perverfe. AIJ the Re- formed Churches are againft impo- fing of SetForms^as I have been told. C. As perverfe as I am. Tie follow you for once. So you have been told, I believe , that they are againft all Set Forms though not impofed : I am fure I have. N. C. No. I remember in the beginning of the late Wars the Scot- tip Formes of Prayer were printed. C. And fo were the French, and thofe of G^/7^x'^, and Guernfea , and the Dutch , to name no more ; all tranflated into Ertgli/h. Therefore pray fatisfie fome of your Ignorant but yet confident Friends in this matter. As for that of Impofing; what think you of thefe words of Mr. Calvin in his letter to the Protecflor, OSoh. 22. I5'48? ^s for Forms of prayer and of Rites Fcclepaflical, I do greatly approve that .there he a certain one extant , from vchich it (hall not he lawful for the Minifiers in theirfandlion to ]^\o A Contimatm of to depart y Set. For which he there gives fotirhfccafons. And whatfoever is pretended to the contrary, the Re- formed Churches do follow this Counfel , and tye men to a Form in the publick duties of Gods worfhip, as I can evidently fliew. But now let me only obferve that heretofore your Minifters thought it no light Argument againft the Separatifis, that all Reformed Churches acknow- ledged the Church of England as their lifter : and confequently did not think her wicked for impofing Forms of Prayer. So you m.ay read in the Book I told you of before, publifhed by Mr. Rathhand, p. 6. though the truth is thofe Miniilers have taken B^owaifcfthat Argument out of a Book of Mr. f^^^^^ Bernards "^ ; who fpeaks difcreetly ^6o8.pag. when he faith, That though we do not ^'^ ' make this our only or chief defence, wherehy wefeek to approve our [elves to God or the confciences of his people ;yet it is a thing that gives fome reputation to us. For even Saint Paul who re- ceived not his calling either from or hy men^ the Friendly Debate. 4 1 1 men, alledges for the credit of his Mi- niftry that three chief Jpoflles approved him and gave him the right hand offel- lowjhip. And which is more, hefeeks to win commendation and credit even to thofe Orders which he hy his Jpofio- licall Authority might have eflahlifh- ed^ hy the example and judgement ^/he^St^ i other Churches'^. cor.7.,7. N.C. Then you are jotimpofing. 33' 16.1, C. I am for that which all men of any difcrction think neceflary, -z/Zis. that every body fhould not be left to do according to their prefent humor and fancy > when they come towor- fhip God in the publick Affemblies. Even the famous SmeBymnuus al- lowed impofitions in fome cafes. For they propound this as an expedient, that, if it fliall appear any Minifter proves infufEcient to difcharge the duty of prayer in a conceived way, it may be impofed on him as a punifli- ment to ufe a fet form and no other^ , * Anfvverro This was indeed a contrivance to dif- RemolS^^^^ gtace the Liturgy as if it were fit for ftrancep.14 no bodies ufe^but the duller & heavier fort 'A Cmtimation of fort of People: but yet it (hews their judgment about impofingy which you now complain of. And 1 would fain know what they would have done with fuch infufHcient perfons as had a good opinion of their gifts; and thinking themfelves wrong'd in being condemned to the forenamed Pen- nance, would not obey them : Would they have forced them to obedience or no? If not; their expedient fig- nified nothing : If they would ; then why ftiould not the Magiftrate do it now, who knows that moft of thofe who love liberty, have a better opini- on of their own abilities than they ought ? N. C. We wifli the Common Pray- er was left at liberty to be ufed or not, as men found themfelves inclined. C. Do you fo ? That's becaufe you defpife it, and think it good for little or nothing. But were there one of your own Inventions to be eftabli- flied, you would never leave us at Li- berty, if you had power, tomakeufe of it or let it alone. Nothing fliould ftand the Friendly Debate^. ^\ 3 ftand in competition with it : but every thing elfe, as well as Common- Prayer, fall before it, as Dagon be- fore the Ark. Did not the Indepen- dents incur your difpleafure for crav- ing an allowance to order a few Chur- ches after their own falhion ? Mr. Dury)[{imk\iy 1 remember, a man of peace and compofer of differences re- folved their way was not to be toUe- rated. For it would lay, faid he , ^ the foundation of ftrife and Divi lion* ^PiOiohvy tn the Kingdom to have two rvayes ofiu Licenied Church Government : which may agree cra^ord with fame Mat chiaviliany but no Chri-^^^y 27. ftian Policy, Jnd therefore it will he no wifdom in the State to yield to the Suit of the five Brethren y except it he induced thereunto hy the Neceffity of a- voiding fome greater inconvenience, than is the admitting of a feed of perpe- tual Divijion within it felf, which is in my apprehenfwn the greateft cf all other, andmofi oppofiteto the Kingdom of Chrift. '^ Now the lefs the caufe of ^' reparation is,the greater is the fault ;/ in thofe that make it, and the lefs ^^ caufe AiA -A Contimation of ^' caufe the State hath to give way to <* the making of it. You remember therefore what Ordinances were made for the electing of Elders : and that all Pariflies and places whatfoever, as Vfdilpriviledged and exempt juris di 511- ons 04 others, fliould be brought un- der the Government of Congregatio- nal, Claffical, Provincial, and Na- aordin.of tional Aflcmblies a. And this was '^'^""^^^'according to their folemn promife of fetling Uniformity ; which part cf the Covenant, they faid ( if you will be- lieve them ) was alwayes before their hovdm.\^ eyes h. In purfuance of which alfo ^iSmble^* the City defired c that fame ftri6i and ^^^\^^(p£sdy courfe might he taken for thefup- Petition, preffin^ of all private and feparated May 26. ^^ '^^ ^ \ ^ * j ^i tt r r 1646. Longregaticns : And the rloule ot Lords ordered the Printing of their Petition ; which was grounded upon "^Decemb. a Re7nonftrance ^ of the Houfe of IS. 1642. (^Qj^jjrjons, *^ wherein they declared *•' that it was far from their purpofe or *^defiretolet loofethe golden rains ^^of Difcipline and Government in [' the Church, or to leave private per- ^ ^ fons the Friendly Debate. 415 ''forts or particular Con^^regatiom to *' take up what form of Divine Service " they pleafe. As for the facred Cove- c^ nanty that Holy Ordinance ( as Mr.CW/i calls it) and choice piece of Divine Service; you know no man could be aMinifter, or an Elder, no nor pra- (flifeasan Attorney or Solicitor at the Law, unlefs he took it: and the refufal of it was generally made a Mark of ungodlinefs ; as I will prove when you pleafe. AT. c I know not what reafons they went by then. C. The fame whereby they would proceed now ; if they had the fame power and the fame hopes. And fo 1 believe would the Independents too: who are for impofing their own things as much as they are able. For they have invented, you muft know, a Model and form of their own heads which is not appointed in Holy Scrip- pres. As firfly that the Members muft be examined and give an account bf the manner of their converfion [which is in a certain Method and Form 4 1 5 A Comimation of Narration Form too in JSlew-Er^gland) and that churn before the Church. Then, it is re- courfesin quired that they enter into a Church- N. England /. i . i . i /-> by w,R. Covenant y which is not the Covenant out of 'their of grace, but diftindl from it : (For STc^chrp'^ ^hey acknowledge a man may be pag.i6. within the Covenant of Grace, who is not in this , and one may be in this, who is not in that. ) And yet it is a Sacred not a Civil thing : which muft be made publick before all the Church, vocal and exprefs ; fo hind- ing that none can be loofed from it without the confent of the Church. And then it is held ( at leaft by ma- ny) that the Members mull: fr(?/7/?^j5',*- i, e, exercife their gifts in and before the whole Congregation, by preach- ing, expounding, applying the Scrip- ture : by inftrudlion , confutation , * which Reprehcnfion with all Authority ^. an'ordi Now having dcvifed thefe things, to peS^fn* name no more, I obferve that the Co- ^^^^^P^'^lf^venantmthc fame Church is in one inMr. Cot- and the fame rormoi words, as well tons Cate- i i r chiiiTi. as matter; and therefore put into writings and muft be r^^^ by the par- the Friendly Debate] 417 tyto be admitted, or he muft hear it read by fome other and give his Af- fent to it. Here is not only a Form of Holy Covenant ( a principle point of worftiip as W, R. notes ) invented by one or more men ; but impofed up- on others, even as many as enter into the Church ; and more than that, to he read upon a Book, What is this better, or how is it more lawful, than a fet form of prayer ? efpecially fince this Covenant is impofed as an Ordi- nance of Gody and ahfolutely necejfary ; fo as no Book-Prayer, I think, is f i find alfo that by this Covenant, the Members in fome places * were y^-*churchof ftrained and tyed up from A^ewing ^^^^J^^jj'^j their gifts in peaking or fcrupling ; till they were called thereto ; that is, they being allowed to prophefie pub- lickly, and fo to propound queftions and make objecStions ( which they call Scrupling^ they bound them up in this Covenant, which had the force of Law, from doing it uncall'd. I ^^"Iwould fain know whether this be not '^Ito limit the Spirit (as you fpeak) ^'" E e and 4i8 ^ ContinuMion of and to ftint it to times, as you fay we do it to words ? For if a man be never fo full, he muft have no vent without a call from the Church. And how I pray you doth this difJer from an Ec- clefiaftical Canon, as to its force and obligation ; but only that it hath an- other name ; and all old Canons muft by lay'd afide, to make way for this new Covenant. They tell us alfo exprefly that the Magiftrate may compel men to keep their Covenant; nb.Narrati= though not to enter into it *. And courfe"^^^ for fpreading of infedliousDodlrines, cap. 15.' Mr. Wheelwright a Minifter, and Mrs. Hut chin fon a pretended prophetefs, were hanijhed the Countrey. Seve- ral of their followers alfo were fome imprifonedy iome fined, {omcdisfran- ingsofthe chifed, Cottic haniJhcd, and oil di farm- Simhoi- ^^> for petitioning the Court inbe- Tmvn,^oa! ^^^f ^f Mr. Wheelwright and remon- 2. 1657. and ft rating with due fubmiflion ( fo g>inde. their words were ) that they conc«iv- poc'ecdi^led he defer ved no fuch cenfure^. A BoftJn ^^ gfc^'^t many more remarkable things i^i(i' ' there are in thatftory, which lean- not the Friendly Debate] '^'l p not ftancj to recite. But muft pro- ceed to tell you, that as for others who are not of their way, there is juft no liberty at all For as they will not grant communion to members of other Churches not conftituted as they are ; fo if a company of approved godly people ftiould fit down near them ( where their power reaches ) differing from them only in fomc points of Church Government ; fome of them tell us, not only that they fliall not he owned as afifier Church, hut alfo he in danger of fevere puni(hment hy the Civil Magijirate b. b mmtion N. C. What is all this to our Inde- ^'* "?• '^• pendents ? C. They extol both the Men and the wayes of New-England to the Skyes : and therefore approve of them Ifuppofe, not only as good,but as ex- celling all other. The Men, they fay, have teftified their fincerity to all generations future by the greateft undertaking, except that of our Fa- ther Jhraham, viz, leaving this Countrey to go thither , merely to E c z wor- 42 A Continuation of cApoioge- wprfliip God more purely c And as tiS!,^i643.T^ their wayes and praSlices, they are pVi' improved to a better Edition and great- er refinement y than thofe of other Re- s'*' formed Churches^, which ntiakesit reafonable to believe, that when they Covenanted to reform according to the example of the heft Reformed Churches, they had New-hngland in their eye, as their pattern. For thofe General e Beam of words,as Mr. Feak e rightly obferves, ^z^hV'^'leftit under fufpence and undetermined which of the Reformed Churches had oh' tained the higheft degree of Reformation. The Scots and their Friends judged the Kirk of Scotland the heft Reformed ; the Dijfenting Brethren, approved the Reformation of New-England to he moft Excellent. But be this as it will, we have learn't thus much from what hath been related ; that the Churches of 0, better Edition and greater refine- ment, do not think it unlawful to ufe forms in Gods holy Ordinances ; unto which they hind thofe who come un- der their Power; y^/r^/Wf;^ themal- fo from opening their mouths, when per- the Friendly Debate. 4 2 I perhaps they think themfclvcs full of the Spirit ; and denying leave to o- thers to fet up a different way from theirs, in their Neighbourhood. As for our Independents I can /hew from their Books, that they think it necef- fary to be as fevere in a great many Cafes ; and I remember as heavy com- plaints of them, as ever they made of the Presbyterians : and have been told that they daylyjpet their venome pri- vately and puhlickly, again fi thofe that feparatedfrom them a, &c. a vanity of N,c. It will be too long to relateS^J/^t^^ all thofe things. But I would fainP-5-^«^"' know how this will (land with Chri- ftian Liberty ? C. Do you think that it confifts in being tyed to no Law at all ? N.c. None but Gods. C, Take heed what you fay. J\f. c. In matters of worfhip , I mean. C. That's abfurd, as I have fliewn you. Gods Law hath only given us the general rules whereby things arc to be ordered in the Church ; accord- E e 3 ing 42 i ^A Continrntion oj ingto which our Governors are to make particular Laws, and we are to obey them ; or elfe there will be no- thing but confufion. Yet ftill our Chrifiian Liberty remains; becaufe, Firft, we are not tyed to this or that pattern or Modelj, but our Governors have liberty to eftablifh whatfoever (being in itfelf indifferent) fhall feem to them moft expedient for maintaining comelinefs and Order. And fecondly, when any orders are cftablifhed, this is our Liberty (as pur Divines teach you ) that we do not ufe them as any part of Divine Worfhip ( as fome of you do ) nor as meritorious and fatisfadlory, nor as neceflary to juftification or falva- tion, but only for difcipUne and good Orders fake. And Ufily, by confe- quence the fame Authority may alter them, and hath not fo tyed up it fclf to them, but that it is at liberty to abolifli thofe, in cafe of inconveni- ence arifing, and eftablifli others in the room. But fuch a Liberty as leaves men loofe from all Laws and Orders, the Friendly Debate , 42} Orders, fave thofe that they fhall chufe themfclves, is a wild fancy which^(?«r Minifters condemn as well as ours, Mr. Duty for inftance, (a ve« ry moderate Presbyterian ) tells the Independent Brethren, We mufl ex- feB nofuch Liberty at Jhall break the Bond of Spiritual Unity, which by the allowance of a puhlick tolleration of a different Church Government, may be occafioned. To keep therefore Unity in- tire a few muft yield unto many, except they can fairly perfwade thofe many to yield to them a . a Epiftoiary N, c. But what if they cannot ^^'.7/5' agree ? C. I was going to tell you. If they cannot agree, it ujuli they floould forfeit their Spiritual right and liberty which Chrijl hath conferred upon them, and fall under the Arbitriment of the Secu- lar Power, which ought to look unto its own fafety, left thofe that make Diviji- ons and multiply Breaches in the Church about fmall matters, difturb alfo by that means the puhlick peace of the State b ► bib. 0.24- Of this mind alfo was Mr, John Cotton Ee4 (a 424 'A Cmmmtion of C a mild Independent ) Good Kittys, ^ ^P^^^^j^^ faith he c, ought fo put upon their peo- V. io.pag pie wholfome Laws and fir ait binding ^' to the purity of Religion, and the Wor- Jhip^of God. It U no impeachment to their Chriftian Liberty , cu the jinabap- tifls dote, but an ornament to their beauty, making their necks comely a4 with chains of Gold. And a little af- d ib.ure 3.ter d , ItU no impeachment ofChriflian Liberty to bow to Chrifiian Laws : Tea, it if the beauty of a Chriftian Church to wear thofe chains, thofe Laws, which were made for the good of the Churchy and it was their prophane^ and rebellion that fay ; Let us break their bands afun- der, and ca({ away their cords from us. M C. He fpeaks of thofe purer Laws which they found out, not fueh as yours. C. It's as much to my purpofe if he did; for it proves he would have the people ftriBly tyed to Laws and wear thefe chains alwayes about their necks; and our Governors think theirs as good as any, and fo may as inno- cently bind wxn fall to them, as you the Friendly Deflate. 4 2 y ty them to yours. And let me tell you, both Presbyterians and hdepen- dents would have their Orders fo ftricft, that their people ftiould not be allowed the liberty of going to hear where they pleafe. Mr. Edwards a , a cangr^a 1 remember, in his Catalogue of Er- \_fZr'x^?' rors, Herefies and Blafphemks, puts down this for one. That it is part of mens Chriflian Liberty, not to hear their own Minifiers, but to go and hear where they willy and whom they think they may profit mofl by. And the New England Churches condemned thofe that faid b, b catalogue if a man think he may edify better in an- nlj^^coni* other Congregation than in hu own, that demn^d by 7 ^ , , .. .t anAHembly U ground enough to depart ordtnartly, ofthcchur- from Wordy Seals, &c. notwithftanding ti^j^^rov, the offence of the Church, often manifeft- ^°' ed to him for fo doing. N.c. But why fhould there be any penalties? c. You may as well ask me over again, why any Laws? which will be ridiculous without them. But I won- der you are not afliamed to fpeak a- gainft penalties and force,who prefTed the i^25 A Continuation of the Covenant with more feverity, than ever any body did Conformity, What crofncj^isthis { tis the Bifhop of Don>n . . faid c ) that whenweprej^ men to con- speech ^t form to the Orders of our Church, they iT^^k ^li^^g it is contrary to Chriftian Liberty ^^38. fQ in force men to the doing of any thing againft,therr Confcience, and that a man foould he fully refolved in his own mind of the Lavpfulnejsofthat which he doth ; and yet we urge that only under pain of fujpenjion and excommunication, and that after much patience and forbear- ance, ufng all fair means to per fwade them : But they compel men tofubfcribe the Covenant againft their Confcience by Pike and Fiftol ; threatning no lefithan lo(i of life, or goods and Lands in cafe cf refufal ? By this we may judg of their fincerity and what they would do in other things, had they Tower in their hands. The truth is one could fcarce live a- rnong you when you had power ; for all that would not take the Covenant were held to be Malignant s ,^116. if you know not what was to be done with theai^an eminent perfon will tell you. lY.c.Who the Friendly Debate. j^z'j iV. c. Who do you mean ? c. Do you not remember who it was that complemented the Parlia- ment as the keepers of our Vineyardy and commended them for being wanting in nothing to their duty N.C. What then? C. You (hall hear. He faith they had endeavoured to f if upon confideration of thefe things you be not fatisfied. And to fave you and my felf any further labour , I fhall commend a few Di- redlions to you for the guiding of your confcience, and fo conclude. A^. C. Let's hear them. G. I cannot expedl you fliould bear any refpeCl: to my Advice; there- fore I will fpeak to you in another mans words ; which are fo good, that it's pitty they fliould be forgot. They were writ above threefcore years ago by Mr. Rich, Bernard , in a Book of his, where he teaches you how to car- ry your felf in a Church or State, fo as that you may feek the publick quiet of it*. N.C How I pray you? Ileftudy kdvSf hiscounfels. mentsand Q *^ Firft , maintain and uphold Counlels of , , , . . r n i i • • pwce,iM."all that jis manireltly good m it. iJf the Friendly Debate. 437 '^2. If there be any manifefl: evils, ^^ labour in your place by the bcft ^^ means to have them amended ** peaceably. 3. Bear with lighter ** faults For a time till a fit occafion ^^be oflfered to have them amended. ^'4. As for likelihoods of evil make ** them not apparent evil by ill inter- '^ pretation ; where neither the State *^ intends it, nor fo maintains it. '^ 5. Take doubtful things ever in ^^the better part. 6, Judicioufly *' difcern between the abufc of a thing ^^ and that which may be well ufed : *^ left in abhorring the ahufe , thou '^ alfo do utterly condemn the thing '^ it felf and the ufe thereof 7.Let not ^' theflourifliing condition (as thou ^^ fancieft it ) of any Forain Church '* or State, make thee unthankful for ^^ the prefent good thou enjoyeft at ^* home , and loath thine own happi- ''nefs. 8. Mark and hold the dif*- ^^ ference between thefe things ; the ^^ Equity of Law and the Execution; ^' the truth Generally eftabliflied and '^profefled, and the perfonal Errors Ff3 ^fof A7Z -« Continuation oj '*of fome. Between foundnefs of ** Dodlrine and bad Application ; be- ^^ tween fubftance and circumftance ; *' between the very being of a thing, ^^ and the well being of it ; between '' what is neceffary and what is only ^^ convenient and defirable ; between *^ a Commandment andaCommand- ^' ment to thee ; between what is ^* lawful and what is expedient.p.Ne- '* ver prefume to reform others,before ^^thou haft well ordered thy felf. '^ lo. Do not difobey the evident '^commandment of God : and when '^ there is nothing but probability ^^ of finning in obeying the precept ^' of thy Governors, donotfetopinl- '^ on before judgmxnt. Set afide fan- ^'cy, and do notrefufcto obey Au- "thority, where it is notpLtiji thoa '^fhalt fin againft God. Bg more *^ loth to offend a lawful Magiftrate 0;^ ** than many private perfons, ' *^ Where thou canft not yield, there ^^ humbly crave pardon. Where ^^ thou canft not be tollerated , be ^^ contented with Corredtion for fafe- '' ty i the Friendly Debate. 439 " ty of Confcience : and bear what ^' thou canft not avoid, with a patient *' mind. Remember that to ftand ^^ more upon avoiding diflike in pri- '^ vate pcrfons, than in offending the ^' publick authority, is no better than "^ '^an humouring of men to increafe ^^difcontentednefs, rather than to ^^ prefcrvc the publick peace and wel- ^^ fare. Nay/it is better to crofs fome '^ mens affe(5lions without fin toGod, ^' than to negledl moft certain Duty, " let people perifli, open a gap to the ^' enemy, lofe thy liberty, and no '^whit better the Church of God. N. C. O but in this we muft be very tender , and difobey men rather than God. C. You fliould be very tender and careful left you diCdbey both : by breaking the commands of your Go- vernors, when in fo doing you follow no command of God. For which end he gives you this Rule. -As thou '^mayftnotout of policy for fear of ^^ trouble , furnifli thy felf with di- ^^ftindlions and evade thy duty, F f 4 [[ where 44 o -^ Continuation of " where the word is plain : fo thou ^' oughteft not out of fcrupulofity to *^ imagine fin where there is none, ^'and trouble thy Confcience with ^*fear of tranfgrcfling , where there '^ is no Law. The one breeds ^theifm, ^' the other is the mother of Superfii- '^ ^/W.Therefore in indifferent things '^make no queftion for confcience ^^ fake : fo it be that neither holinefs, '^ merit, nor neceflity be put therein, ^' nor ufed for any part of Gods wor- ** fhip, but for Decency, Order and E- ^^dification. N,C. But what if I am in doubt; and afraid to ufe thefe things you call indifferent ? C.In this cafe he hath given you fuch good Directions that I need feek fcr no other. '* The fubftance of them *^ is this. You would do well to ex- '^ amine your felf whence yourDoubt ^'arifes, whether from ferious confi- *' deration and a judgment convin- '^ced; or thatitbeonlyanicenefsof *' diflike , coming from a defire not ^^ to be troubled with them , or for ^' that the Friendly Debate. 44 i ''that thou haft not been ufed to "them , or becaufe fome cannot ** away with them, or from Ignorance ** and want of knowledge, or perhaps **from a godly jealoufie and fear of ** doing amifs (I may add from ana- ** tural timoroufncfs and uncertainty ** of mind which can refolve nothing.) '*If the ground be not a judgement ^'inlightned and convinced, it is not ^* trouble of confcience, but a diflike '' that works difcontcntednefs upon *^ fome of the former grounds ; which *' muft be removed by confideration " and fetling your judgment upon ''the Word of God and found Rea- "fon. Nay, it will be fittoconfi- *^ der, whether this doubting do not *' arife through your own default, by "looking out Reafons to increafe ^ "your diflike, and neglecfl-ing to "fearch for Arguments to give you " fatisfacflion If this be your Cafe, '' as it is certain it is of too many, '^take as great pains to refolve your " felf as you have done to bring your ^^ felf into doubting ; elfc you deal '' but 44 2 ^ Continuation of ^^ h^t partially. And have a care you *j, be not too highly conceited of your ^^felf, and look upon your own rea- ^'fons through the vapour of affc' ^^dlion. N. C. My fcruples are- grounded upon this reafon ; that to make a thing lawful in Gods worfhip, it is not enough that it is not forbidden but it muft be commanded. C. Examine well without preju- dice what our Divines have replyed an hundred times to this , and you will find it an abfurd Principle. Or for the prefent onely weigh what he faith , *^ Why fliould a man be more '^fcrupulous to leek to have a plain '^ command for every thing he doth in ^^ Ecclefiaftical matters , even about ^^ things in themfelves indifferent, ^^ than about matters politick in Ci- ^' vil affairs ? Men in thefe matters *^know not the ground nor end of *^^many things which they yield ^^ unto , upon a General command *^ to obey Authority ; and knowing ^^them not to be direcStly againft ^^Gods the Friendly Debate. ^^a ** Gods will. And yet our obedience '' in all Civil matters muft be^r// of **Confciencc , ^nd , fecondij/y as fer- *^ving the Lord; which cannot be ^' without knowledge and perfwafion ^^ that we do well even w that particu- <^ lar in which we obey : which men ^^ ufually for confcience fake inquire ^' not into y but reft themfelves vpuh ^' a General comynnndment of obeying *' lawful Authority, fo it be not a- ^* gainrt a plain commandment of ^'God. What therefore doth let, ^' but that a man may fo fatisHe him- ^'felf in matters Ecclefiafticall ? I *^muft tell you (faith he) that the '' curious fearching fo particularly in- ^' to every thing to have full fatis- ^^fadl:ion, hath fo wrought inthefe ^' days upon mens wits to bring di- ^'ftincftions ; that the more men feek "in doubt for rcfolution , the fur- '^ ther they arc from it. N. C What fhall a man do then ? C. He muft obferve thefe Rules of that Good man. i. *' Keep all main '' Truths, rCO 444 ^ Contimation of '^Truths, which are moft plainly '^ fet down in the Word , or by the '* Law of Nature ingraven on every '^mans heart. 2. Believe every " thing truly and neceflarily gather- ''cd, by an immediate confequence *'from the Text. 3. Follow evi- " dent examples fit for him cither as *'a Chriflian, or his fpecial calling *^ requires. 4. Avoid that which is ^' plainly forbidden , or follows ne- ceflarily by an immediate confe- quence. 5". Follow true Antiqui- ty and the General pradtice of the ^' Church of God in all ages , where ^' theyhave not erred from the evident '' Truth of God. 6. If thou fufier- *^ eft ( faith he ) let it be for known " Truth and againft known wicked- ''nefs; for which thou haft example ^^ in Gods word, or of the holy Mar- ^^ tyrs in Church ftory : But beware ^^offarfetcht confequenceSj orof fuf- '^fcring for new devices, and for '^ things formerly unto all Ages un- *^ known , feem they never fo holy '^andjuft unto man. iV-.C. But the Friendly Debate ] 44 r A^. C. But what if the thing com- manded feem to me a fin ? c. '*Heanfwers, fome things fin* '^ fully commanded may be obeyed "^^ without fin, as J(!?^^ obeyed David ** in numbering the People. Secondly, ** Confider, how dofl: thou conceive " it to be fin ? Is it [imply fo ? Shew '^ me the Prohibition ; elfe where no '^ haw is there is no transgrejjion. Or " is it fo accidentally ? that is, in the *' abufe, which may be removed ; or ^'inrefpecft of the Ignorance of the "Lawfulnefs, making thee to doubt *^ and fear to offend ^ life all dili- ^^ gence for refolution. * And if it be " not a known fin to thee certainly ** but only by probability ; confider, *' whether probability of finning may ^' give thee a fufficient difchargefor ** not obeying a plain Precept, and to " neglecft neceflary Duties otherwife, *^ both to God and man. N^.C, Would you have me do things while I am full of fcruples v^e- ther 1 may or no ? Doth not the Scrip- ture fay whatfoever is not of Faith is fw^ Rom. 14.25. C.Hc 445 A Contimation of C. He tak^s no notice of that place; But fince you mention it Tie give you Mr. John an Anfwcr, not from my felf, whofe lucionof judgment you value not much, but i^cenferby ftom a Divine who, we are told, fuf- ^rd^T64f. ^i^cd much under the Bifhops. Things wherein doubts arife, faith he, are of a double Nature. Firft, '^ fuch as are ^' merely drhitrary and at my own dif- "pofe. Thefe may be left undone ^' without fcruple, but not done with ^^ it ; bccaufe the inconvenience of '' Omiffion is but a little felffufFer- '^ ing. Suchare the things the Apo- ^^ftie fpeaks of; forbearing theufe ^^ of our Liberty in eating flefh,or the ^' like cafe. If a man doubt whether '^ he may do that, or whether he may *^ play at Tables or Cardsjthe omiffi- *^'on here being no more but only de- ^' nying our felves a little contcnt,the *' doubt fliould make a man forbear. ^' But then there are other things that "are not arbitrary but under a com- "-^mi^nd , as coming to the Sacr-ament, "' obedience to the higher powers in " things lawfuL Now if fcruples arife ^* about the Friendly Debate. 447 ^' about thefe, and a man doubts he *^ lins if he a5i, and he alfo doubts he ** fins ii' he forbear ; it is neither clear *^that the thing to be done is finful, '' and fo to be forborn, nor perfecflly ^^ clear that it is a duty and foto be *^ done : h thU cafe he muft weigh the ^^ Scales ; and where the Soul apprehends ^^ mo ft weight ofreafon, that way he muft *' incline ; though the other fcale be not *^ altogether empty. And this done after '^ humble and diligent fearch, with ^* bewailing our infirmity that we are *^ no more difcerning, will be accep- '^ ted of God. God puts not his people ^^ on necejjity of (inning ; nor can our *^ fcruples dijpenfe with hfs commands. N. C. Sometime I think this is clear and folid Reafon ; but many Friends think otherwife, and I am loth to ofifend them by doirxg thefe things which our Governors require. C. But confider, '^ Firft, they may *'take oflfence when none is given, Bem.coun- '' and then the fault is their own, and ^^^^^^^^^ ^' you not chargable therewith. Se- *^ condly, the Queftion is whether they ^'be ij.48 ^ CmtimiUm of ^^ be offended in refpc(5l of what them- ^^ felves know, or but led by afiedti- '*on, diflikingof other mens diflike. ^' Intreat the former to let thee a- '^ bound, for fuch things, in thy own '* fenfe ; and fhew them that herein '"^you may Brotherly difagree: for ^* the latter, inform their judgment, ^^ if they will yield to reafon : If not, ^^then confider. Thirdly, whether *^^ thou art bound to nourifli up fuch ^^ men in their folly and to refpe(5l ^' their partial affedlion ; being more *^ carried away with an overweening ^^of fome mens perfons, than any ^^ thing at all with the right under- ^'ftanding of the caufe. And then, ^' Fourthly y confider the power of the . ^< Magiftrate and whether his Autho- ^^ rity commanding do not take away ^'theofTence which might otherwife '* be given by a voluntary AcH:. And, ^^ Lajtly, that a man fliould not ftand *^ more upon avoiding diflike in pri- ^* vate perfons, than offence to pub- *< lick Authority ; as I faid before. But alas ! as he faith at the end of his the Friendly Debate. '449 his Book*, '^Charity and fuch like , heparan, '•^ graces are far to feek now adaies.^chirmad " Men on all hands judg of things per- the"othe? '^vcrfly. This they will allow, and^' '^^' '^that again homouroufly they will ^' not like. That which may be juftly " done well without oflfence, thereat •'will others be unjuftly offended. *' Things doubtful, men take Hnifter- ** ly ; yea they dare cenfure what they '* never faw : condemn as ill, what " they knew not : fufpedl where they *^ have n*o caufe : gain-fay, where *^ there ought to be no contradicflion, '* partial to themfelves and rigorous •'toward others. Authority will rule *' thus and fo, Subjedts will obey with "Exceptions. Judgment from the *' word is not fo much a Guide, as will *' and affe(5lion in too many are made *< Matters. Thcfe be ill dayes and ** contentious : unhappy times , in '* which men either will do, that they '" will do of themfelves ; or elfe fall " to humour parties ( not {imply re- *' ceiving a love of the truth for the G g ^^ truths 2,^0 A Cmtinmtion of *' truths^ fake ) and fo come to per- ''takings, which doth but increafe *' contention, till all come to confu- *'fion: except the Lord in his great '* mercy prevent the fame. N. C. And turn us all to a more moderate courfe, and there keep us. C. You have read the Book : for thofe are the words that follow. N, C. No. But I think there is much of truth in what he fayes: and it had been well if his Counfels had been then followed. • C. Alas ! they who were chiefly concerned in them, were fo far from following them, that they took no farther notice of them than only to revile him that wrote them. i\r. ^. Me thinks none /hould be fo bruitifli. C, It is as I tell you. Mr. Ainf- vfiOYth making an anfwer to this Book, wholly omitted theft Counfels ofPeaccy fave only that he once mentioned them, with this haughty ctn{\xxG,that perhaps the Author knew no more than Caiphas the Friendly Dehu , 4SL Caiphas n>h^t hefaid. Such men will not grant us able to fay any good thing -. Iv, c. But this was an acknowledg- ment the things were obfervable. C. True, but you fee the men of that Spirit will not regard excellent things, iftheybefaid by thofcwhom they do not love. Mr. Bernard in his reply I think hath given a true defcrip- preface to tion of them. Schifmaticks are head- f^^^^^^^ fironjs^t they will not fee evident conviBi- Anfwer to on. Self-love makes them judge the hefi fpeech si ofthemfelvesy hut their want of Charity y^'^^f^^ very badly of others, they beguile ^^^^"b'^uJho!^ f elves withjhews of Piety, heat ofaffe^i- rity. 1610. on, and with a ftrong apprehenfion of things greatly ami(^ in others, thefe they can fee with both eyes, themfelves with neither. Our arguments againfl them are Paper floot : but their weakefl reafons againfi wi ( if themfelves may judg ) are /hot of Cannon, They dejpife every mans endeavour againfl them, and larein admiration of their own works, ^Let any man confer with them, and he G g 2 Shall 452 A Continuation of /hall hear it: I my felfhave fujficient experience of it. jill oppofing their tvay, are men, in their judgment, that haut no grace, reheUious againft the Light, They are prefumptuous in cenfuring ; and may give fentence againft all men and all Churches in the World ; hut none may give judgment of them. I heartily wifh you all lejs pride and more humtlity ; lefsdijlike of others, and more charity, with greater dijlike of your felves : the want whereof U the prefent enemy to lovely Unity y that ever accompanies true Piety ; which many pretend, but few truly enjoy. And fo farewell. N.c. Do you hear? pray come back. c. Will you never have done? what's the matter now ? iV. C, I have but one word more. Yo'i muft not pafs too hard a cenfure upon fome Minifters who come not to Church. You know they cannot appear openly becaufe ofthe Acft which forbids them to be in Cities, Market-Towns, SJ'c. C.And the Friendly Debate^. 4"^ j C. And yet they are there notwith- {landing that Adt, and kept meetings againft another Aifl which was lately in force. Why may they not appear any where in thofe places as well as in one ? In God's houfe as well as their own or yours ? In the face of all the people, as well as before a party feparatcd from the reft ? You are a fine Advocate indeed : who now have confeffed they are more afraid of the punijhment (whatfoever they fay) than of the Sin of difohedience. For they break the Law wherefoever they are in thofe prohibited Cities or Towns> and they would but break it, ^ if they were at Church : only it would be lefs N, C, I will ftay you no longer. I did not think of this, when the other came into my mind. C. I believe it. You are not wont to lay things together, and then fearch them to the bottom. But you think as you talk ; fuddenly, in a rambling manner, without any cohe- G g 5 rence : ^ ^|4 A Continuation of rence: which would never trouble me at all ( you may think and fpeak as you pleafe ) if you were not fo con- ceited of your felves, as if you were the moft knowing people, that muft give Law and Religion to all others. M C. There are thofe can talk as well as you. C No doubt of it. Let them there- fore endeavour to mend the reft. And remember them of fuch paflages as thefe in your Books, which once they allowed of. No man endued with right . *i u c ^ r Re a f on , hut mil Cay An Alarm by wav or Anlwcr to •' , ' J y the laft warning piece, p. 15, Li- there u d necefjity of a cenfedbyMr.John DcAvnain, with ^^ -r- r this fentence pri-fixed. Ye fliall LtOVemment I if Of a have one Ordinance, both for r'^rT,^*^^^^^.^* *L»^ ^^ ^ ^ the ftranger, and for him that is Ciovernment, then of an bommtheund. Uniformity y elfeitmli he confufed. Therefore there if anecefji- ty to Pppreji all CONVENTI- CLES; and that all men jhould oh- ferve fuch Order, Time, Flace, and ptihlick Gefturey as the Farli^ment ( hy the Advice of the jiffembly ) jhall appoint. And no man that hath any ufeof Conference in any thing but will: acknoW' the Friendly Debate. 45T acknowledge he u hound in Confcience to obey the Laws of the Land in which he lives, in all indifferent things : Or he u turbulent and deferves cenfure, even for matters concerning Worfinp^ He that hath the ufe of Confcience^ will muke Confcience of the duties of both Ta- bles, 04 well as one, there is doubt- le(ia Confcience towards God, and a Confcience towards man \ This was the Apoftlespra^ice, and muft be our Rule, Adl. 24. 16. lexercife my f elf to have alwayes a Confcience void of offence, to* ward God and toward Men. Once more Farewel. N.C. I thank you. THE E^HJ).^ E RR J T A PAgc p<5. Line 1$. dtlt but, p. 2(58. 1. 4.r. to he condemned, p. 2.82. 1. penult, dele toUch, p.288.1.ult.r./w