IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) €Jt ^ J^^ 1.0 1.1 ■ •JO ^ 1^ 12.2 112.0 6" 1.8 L25 iiu 111111.6 i ^ V] ^- ^. /2 ^ /a 7 Sciences Corporation 23 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, N.Y. MS80 (716) 872-4503 ^ ^S^ •sj c\ \ «^v ^\ '^% <^. ^^1.- '<> '. oi^p^QsiTionsr •- TO THE ^ ■! ;-: ■ \\'- GOVERNMENT'S RAILWAY AND TARIFF POLICY. 18 31 /: i^/f? mm y. OTTAWA : Printe* by 0. W. Mitchell, at thk "Fhee Press" Office, Elgin Street. 1881. •«' m \ SPEECHES OF NEW BRUNSWICK MEMBERS IN OPPOSITION TO THE GOVERNMENT'S RAILWAY AND TARIFF POLICY. N HtKEET. Janiuiry 11th, 1S81. Mr. ROGERiS Ruid : After the verj ex- haustive arguments of lion, nieiubors on both Hides of the House, it may be difficult to advance much that is new. But the Jtcheine now liefore us for the •CMistruotion of a portion of the Pacitio Railway by a Syndicate and the balance by the Goyernment, the ownership of the whole line becoming the ab.solute pro- perty of the Company, involves not only such a large amount of money, but also the progressive development and future political standing of Canada. That I would hardly do my duty to my constitu- ents or myself by giving a silent vote in «ondemnatioii of what I conceive to be a most unfortunate and ill advised scheme. Had I occupied a seat in tliis House in 1871, when the resolutions was passed for the admission of British Columbia, and making it imperative to reach the Pacific coa.st within a limited period at any cost, I believe I should have opposed it, as I think a very large majority of this House would now do if they had the opiX)rtunity, because it appears to me that that provision has been the basis of much subsequent trouble. In the effort to accomplish so great and costly a work in advance of popular opinion, and before it could be justified by popnhition, or known resources, both great political parties have met with embarrassments. Few people, looking to the future consoli- «lation and permanency of this Dominion, are wanting in the hope,,of eventually securing a railway to the Pacitic Ocean. But as every branch of the business of life and the dreainsr of future greatuoun and wealth can only be properly realized in their full fruition by prudence, economy and foresight, the histor" of all successful countries, as well as tlie individuals com- prising them, teaches the danger of rash- ness and speculative recklessnes.'* in aiming at great achievements. How often do we see farmers and business men bringing ruin on themselves and their families by mortgaging their property for a fine house or other luxury which they might have obtained and enjoyed by gradual thrift and economical manage- ment. The Ministers and their support- ers who glorify themselves so persistently now for what they have already done in inaugurating so hastily these proposed large expenditures, and creating such enormous liabilities involving taxation and disaster, are not gaining for t'.em- selves laurels, or securing for themselves the gratitude of the people whose servant,"! they are. Tliey may tell us a railway from ccean to ocean at any cost is a work of immediate necessity involved in the terms of Confederation, that it will bind together still more closely Canadian interests, and solidify the wliole Domin- ion. I beg to dissent from any such view — I believe the opposite. The developmenfr of the good lands in the North- West, anl the gnwlual extension ot a railway therein so fast as required for the benefit of settlers, and an ultimate extoiLsion of tho line to the Pacific when the country becomes able A 3?}7/ //; to inoviili! for it, would bo tlio wisnst, 1 Hllfl'st 1111(1 Hlllt.l'SlllllII like (V)lll'SC to |)Ursil('. I Attlu! liiiio of Coiifotl'-mtiori tlio.Miiriiiinn Provinocs wvvk di'ludi'tl with uhhui'iiiicoh of Ii'a preHiMit lii.ijli tiiiill'. TIib | ii:itunil olianncls ot trudo lia\ (* h(>en ob- 1 stnicted, and the liii.sinesH of the I'rovinco . more or less retarded. l>y the conditions I of the. coulraot which the House is asked | to acce|)t, llu) iirrard Inlet route is piemature. They soon changed their niimls in that particular, ar I adopted that route. 1 hope they will ch.inge their minds if this I'esolntion is carried as ([iiickly and abandon the con- tract. I have still higlu'r authority. In reforrin*; to tlm sale of these lands two years ago, the right hon. the leader of the Government said :-- " Wcj arn f^oing into tlio K-'glisn market ; we will toll Eiiglanil : Horo, \\\: are goiiL to ttuild a groat railway a-roHn tlli^ (M)iitin lit. It ia Jelling to pass tlir ugh one of the finfit countries tho sun sliiiies on, ami wili he tli ■ luqipy homo of niillions of ili MCtiinlantti of KngiiMhnuiii. I'lvery iliimigra:. t tli it Nottlcsthce will ho an a iditional struiigth to lOiigland. We otl'i."" you a great roal, tlip shorttst to he found in the world for your trad^-, aoro-s the oontmont to Cli'iia and .lajian and all the Is'urtli Pao fio, and Ixisides that, we otfer you thi- creilit of Canada, the < oiisols of Canada. It will he a tpreial and .'i- 'ored stouk, and wlicn jiut into tlie JCnglish I larket, tho oapitilists of Knghwid will lind in all a profitaMe inve8tni"nt. Canada says : We plfdgo you our fai h 'or all the iiionej', besides 100, 000,000 acres of lanil, worth $2 an aon-, and we pledge you, liosidiiB, the road itself. Never wtti stronger security piven. The cnaoh cf England are not s'.ront'or, or ha^ed on a stronger condition than will he tho amount tliit will be required to huilil that road. We will allow the liritisli(tovi r iiiieiit to clioos • onoCoiiiMiissioner, we will oho i, tlid inl'tlK' Dmiiiril Tlicy Hmm i:il, |iiirticiil)ir, lui]ic tlicy vviJl resolution is union flic oon- iithoiity. la 'He lands two ! leadi.T of the ish market ; we J goii- to huild iitin lit. It ia finost countries li • liuppy lioino lisliinuii. I'lvt^ryr Ijuaii a Iditionnl i"'" .you a great 1 the worlJ for to Cii'na and i'.", and hcHides if C'mmda, the a tp.cial and to tlie JOnjjlisli il will lind in laila s.iyn : Wo iioiiey, bedidcH $2 an iicr-, and itiioll'. Never he cinsoh tf d on a stronger nt tliit will be 13 will allow the ('(iiiiiiiisnioiior, iis-io.j(ir, and '/'/'(•^/-judic al iHiitor-lie"oral I'oneral Ik re, ^'uniicH, from auge. They ami limi(;atly of 100,000,000 0.1 Kccuritics, •?2 an acre, of the two guaranteeing and, besides jration of the the future of <>«8t and the t and rufiiged that railway )untry, which lillioub. Just y use a simile T would hold, »y, not only is this road, but Bt aside for it, rot to pp«ttk of this gren* railway itiflf and rU ^ iti future mrnti ,i{H, wli.oh ia to bo built by \ Cnuaiii ttfid lii'i't 'lei! friini ini umlirincoM, " " We can jn iu« of t.iio vn'\leof tlioHe IhihIr ; bj' the average value of th'i bindn in the llnit'd State. More lo id l\nil will bu pledtjod to build the Caiindian I'aeilio ItaiUny thin wan I givi'U ti b'lLld ihi) Northern, or the Union I'aiiii.', I'V f'li*. •'" lh» ""'', the nvcrajje v liio I va<< ?.ii .'(), an'', on the oMut, !f I ■')() an acre, ' ami tho'-e United Stateii luiiils are selling now j at i!$l20. iS.'K), and iji-tO in favorite plcci-H. We I nil- \u:y iiioderate in i ur e.ili'ulatioiis. then. lu CHtimatiui; ?i a'* the av-rayn f.rthc 100.000,000 aerca we propose to nn'o, and which will yield 1200,000,000 at least." II lias liecn aln .idy shown liy previous Hpcakers that in opinion of this lion, leader of the Government, as exprew.sed dniiiii,' the Session of l.^HD, the value of the laiiii;i had not niiico depreciated, hcctioii 7 of the resolutions adopted 1 2th May, 18711, runs as follows : " That said Co'Timiiiaioners be authorized to ■ell fr^ni tune to tini°, any poiti'-n of such laiidn, • t a pi ice to be fixed by the (Jovernor in ("oiinod on tlioir recommendation o/ (iuired to invest the proceeds of such sa'cs in Canadian Government I'eeurilie!', to he held ex- clusively for the purpive of defraying the co^t of the eonstruction of the Canadiaa Pacific Railway." By this resolution hon. meinhers declare that 100,000,000 acres of land i;i the North- West are worth, at th(! lowest limit, two dollnrs per acre. Now, two years later, with the iniprovenient in foreign trade, and the lieniht:t elaimed to have been brought aliout hv the National Poliey, not 100,000,000, init :.'r,,0()(>,0()(i acres" selected from this 100,000,000 are only worth one dollar per acre. Tlu princijial jnstiKcation for giving such n large sum of money iind grant of land is- that the conditions are liett«T than those oflered 1iy the lion, member for Lainbton when he was in power. Well, Sir, t'^ai is a strange iirgumcnt for the hon. gentle men opjio.site, lor they were, when in opposition, continually telling the coun- try that tlu! loute, since adopted 1)_\ thdnseives, was not only wrong, but that any ]il:in ol his for building the road wat certain ruin to the country, . But, Sir. the hon. gentleman never proposeil t( give any com]inny absolute control and tf erect a land and railway monopoly in tlu North- West. By the 'Act of 1874, tht Government retained control of two-third^ of th" lands which wero offered for oiio dolhir pfi- acre, and the proceeds to go to the compnny (lonstrueting tlu; rc.iii. If th(^ pidvision forthe sale of tlm i.tnds at this raid were ('ontaiiied in the [n'eMent coiiiract, (hat ooi'tii.u of it would not liB obiecti(Uialili'. 'J'iio (lovernmeiu, nlso retained control over any company build- ing the road by tiui lUth Hcution, which read : — ~ " In every contrart for the conHtruutiou of the said ruihviiy or any leetioii or buii-ieetion thcrerif, the ( lovrnineiit of ('anaila shall reserve the riuht to pu'chase uiuler the authority of I'arlJnmfiit, the h^IiI ruiUvsy or such section or sub-section thorei f, on payment of a sum e(|u;il to the actual cost of the said railwHj', section or sub-Reetion. and ten per cent in addition thereto ; the mlmidies in land and money (jrantpd or paid by the ( iovernmcat fDr the conttruction of the said railway being first returned or deducted from the am: uni; to be iwid, the land? being Ho'd bi ing vulued at the full amount the contractors miy have rt ceived from the sale of bueh as may h'lve been sold." Hy this sectioa the fJovernnieiit could afc any time, if I'arlinment thuugln :in in- ju!iili(^e was beinir intlicted ujion the peo- ple of tWe North-West, assume control of tli(^ rfiad at a small cost beyond the sub- sidles. l»y the present scheme tlm Syndicate will have absolute control of all subsidies, and if at any future time, or (iommercial ictasons, or otherwise, it is desirable that the GoviU'iimcnt should become po.ssessors of the road, they would hdvo to treat with the Company as with a foreign nation, having by this Act parted with all sulisidies, and in fact cieiited a greater power in the NortliAVest than themselveH. With these increased bur- thens and restrictions to the freedom of our people, I fear that they who would loyally turn our groat North- West, will bo intimidated and seek for themselves homes in the United States. This, Mr. iJhairman, I very much regret, for I be- lieve this Dominion, with a healthy climate, a large area of land lit for settle- ment, an extensive forest — rich in mines and minerals, the development of which is only in its infancy — extensive riv(!rs and inland waters, in addltiim to having one shore washed by the waters of the Atlantic and the other by the I'acifie, uft'ers homos for a large population equal- ly as good MS any other country on either .continent. : Jmmary SJfth, 1S81, Mr. niI,I,M()R Hai.l : Moforo I nntcr upon tliM (|iicHtir)ii umlt'r ilisciiHsion, 1 V IhIi to coiiti't KM cnor 1 in.i l<> in w fi!W rciiiiirkH 1 rli'livtufd a few iiij^htt* ago. I Hiiid tlum tliat two j>.i]mrs |iuli!islic(l in Now I'niii.swiik, in tim (loiiMfivativo iutcrotit, lifi 1 jmlilislK! I (li > fjvcat sjKM'cli of (In- .Minister of JIuilwayH, but tlicy liad ii >t jmhliHlitiil th'i ooiitnurt. faiinco tluui 1 ]\.\.\<' liariicti iLiit ono of tliow piijicrs dill jiiil)li.sli t'lo confrai't on the 231(1 of l>(!cpnil(cr. 1 taki) this lirst opportunity to com-ot tho error I thou iiiad«>. It WHS a nuHtiike I rcyrnt to liiivt; iiiiidc. I would lik(! also to refer for a ?nonioiit to tlio manner in whiuli this tjuostion }ias hern discussed. You 1ihvi> given, Mr. Spi^akor, a g;)od (h'ai of hiti tu(hi to this diseusHion. I do not oKjeot to that at, all, hut tho ejnthot. which have 1)fien Applied to tho ninnihor.H of tlie Opposition have been, some of them, vcmv oti'ensive. 1 took notes of tho speochos, nnd 1 find these epitliets tlirown across the House : "{fuilty traitors," ''factious domagogue.s," (juihblin;^ p^ttifop^ers," "j)roud of the audacity of thoir trickery," "they haufj their lieads in nharun hccauHe "their leadtd" has so degraded the count ry," "unpatriotic and disloyal," "a ])ut up job," "ah incendiury fire," "eonceivwl without honor or honesty," "a fraud," "a villainous fraud," "outcast," "not fit fur lieaven." Thi.s is eviiience ratlier of a weak case. It occurs to ino th.it hon. gentlemou having so good a oansn as th(*y profess might discu.sH it without drs of the Reform party will not follow any man blinJiy. They cannot lead the lt«form party iinl 'ss the Keform pArty believeft their policy to hti benetiinal tij the countiy. It is an evidence of the weakness of theii' cause that hon. gentleman opposite have taken up most of their tinio by rehiarsing tho Mpeechen made by th(( hon. memlier for Norfolk, the hou. member for LaMibton ami the lion, and learned Uwier of tho Opposition. Thii plan was adopt.«Ml in i I the first in^t.-inee by the hon. Minister of Jlailway^. Oa looking over hisspe(ch I find tliat he has quoted tifty seven para- gra]>hs from thoso speeches, Tho.se sjieeches have vot beert perused for tho purpos"? of admiring their logic, their eloquence, or thtir argument. They have been criticised for tli« ]>urpo8e of finding out defects and blemi.ihes. Th(;y have been read with the instinct of i»irds of prey who are above the earth an prove that, in rlditiou to all t^ie ot!.er bur lens he had hen woi lid) tli.i pn fiii of mil be «•'' i •» 1 tho Lilmrftl i|ililliri(riitiimA til n'i{iii(J to 18 iiliility of r(^ to fLitt»M- ii'fnriii piirtj iiiJiy. 'V\wj y unl 'HH Jlie j)olii;y ti) lie Tt i.-t an tlifiir rauHP li.ivo taktui ll'■K^.^illJCf fli«( lui-iiilii-r for "')!• lill'tlKtoH wh-y of tlio ii(i')|p(cil in ► )ii. Miiil.st«'r T liis HjK)( eh Hcveii |)ivri\- i«s. 'I'Ihwc s<'eoplfa of fain hope 1 that, in us he liad liHHped upon the peopio, this liiirdt-n would bf to their Hdvuiitajje, that this ndditionnl debt of five or six niillioni that is to be heaped on them in Koing to produce Home sort «»f coinpeimtition. He iailnd, in my 0|)inion, to show anytiiiiig of the kind. I hope my hon. friend will give a reason why lie Hlioiild not save to the peojili- of TifW iJniiiHwii'k at least a niillioii dollars brtw..,eii the t wo oMV-rs now before ns. I took sonic notes of the hon. j;{»!nth.'mairH k{mh)o1i. First, In; says : '■ We are lioimil to carry out the c >n(litioni entered into with HritiHh Columbia." Mr. Speaker, 1 have nc^ver heard a nieni- lier of the ileforin jiarty disneiit from lliat proponilion. There was no nejessity of dealing with that (jiie.stion. Jt is a nettled fact that the Dominion of Canada have entered into an fibligation to build th« Pacific Jiailway. The only (piestion is as to tho time and tiie abilities of ilie Moiuinion to uiuh'rti-.ke that work. That obligation i* accepted by the leader and fill the iiiemhi'r.i of the Op])osition, and I have never heard any intimation on this side of the House of a desire or intention t ) repudiate it, because, however earnestly tliey may havct reasoned against that obligation, yet they regard it as imposed upon tliis country by the gentlenu^ii now on tho Treji mry llenches. When they were defeat--^ and the Reform party came in power, did the Heforin party undertake to repudiate i'nat obligation! As much as they disapproved of it, they never ex- pressed a sentiment that could bo con- strued into a repudiation of it. The question they asked themselves was, how soon can wo, with the resources of this country, carry out in gocxi fuith our obli- gations with liritish (joluiubial Did not the hon. member for Lambtondo as much ill the five yeara of his administration as hon. gentlemen opposite would have done if thoy had been in his place ! And have ihey not approved for the most part of the manner in which he did his work during that time f Tho nearest approach to repudiation I have seen was made by the hon. Minister of Railways in a si)eech, n small portion of which 1 will take the liberty of reading. In a speech made by that hon. gentleman in the Session of 1880, he said : " Now, I think, we inmt all a hnit that suc- cf ssivo Govcrameuts niii«t p :y grL';it d ferente to, and muat hold themaeivea to a Urge extent r«M|)oukibla -for oarrying out tho {Mihuy of their preduceanun J am aatiafiud we all agn^v ill the opinion that it in only nntlor tlie gravotit •iiiMiinRtitnuei tliat a new AdniiniatrMtiun i« ia a poiitii>n to ropiidiatu if 1 may •« Hiieak the engagoinentii iu rotation to a ^roat pultUo (luna- tion, to wlii';li tlioir producvMDrH have coniniit- t(>d the country undiT tho nuth»rity of I'arlia ni«nt. Hut I ipiitc »d the p'>licy of at- t'emjiUng t'looiifitniot the (.;«nadiiiu I'acitiit ll.iil- way, thatlio believed this country ooiild not en- Hn^e in a work of Huch gitfantie niu^iiituiifi witb- OBi lerioualy injuring thi liiiaacial position of the Country — that, undor thoHO ciruumiituncee, ha innnt dculiiui to hohl hiinaolf lOMponaible for the eii^a;.'e«ioiit into which hia predc- ct^ssors had enti^rud 'I'he hon. gentlein.'kn hahoiilil only he constructed, provid.'d a company could ba found, aidad to tho oxtent t)efor« atited. to acconipli.sh it as a private undurtaking. and the clfort to obtain tho cunstruotiou of tho work under the terms sanctieiuid by I'arlianient having failed it was open to him, I ii'\y. frankly to state te the Huuue that hn was unahlu to farry out tho policy to which his iiredecossors had cnmuiifted the country. The iion. gentle- man did not adoi)t that uourse." I do not mean to eay that that speech implies repudiation, but it implied that undiM' certain circumstances we might re- pudiate the bargain. That was not the opinion of the then gov<.rnment. Th» lieforin party, notwiihsianding their strong Opposition to tho ruinous scheme, have done all that British l oluiubi« could reasonably expect, all ti . our resouToes could justify. If they had erred in on« thing, it has been going beyond the resources of ^the country ; they iucrease parties to build the road from end to end, as in the contract under discussion. He .says : "The country finds great relief^ now that i^ knows tlie extent of its liabilities." Tii?re is un-. certainty under tl^is contract, with regard to the extent of our liabilities. The Government have become cnntiaotors with the Syndicate to build TOG jniles of rail- ways, and the Syndicate have contrav,ted with the Government to build the balance of the road. The country knows what they agrtt^d to give the Syn;Mcate but does not know what it will have to pay for the road to be built by the Govern- ment. Ho pretends that tenders had been asked by tht Governn.ent, that the country were notified, OTid tenders could have been received if presented. He gave as his reasons for stating that they were prepared to rect'ive tenders, that the leader of the Government had given notice to this etfect in his speech at Bath. Whoever heard of a notice being given to the coimtry in that way, when great public works Acre about to be letf That is not the wiy in which a government should proceed. If a light- house, or a post ofllce, or any pulilic woik is to be let, pidilic notice is to bo given and tendeis are not solicited in that way. I am sure the coinitry were encirely ignoi'ant of the int ntions of the Goveni- nient to let the work in this mannT He said : "TI e old Syndicate coidd not aljandon the eastern and western section, but the new one could." The hon. gen- tleman kn-^'ws veryviweli the new Syndi- cate could not abandon the eastern or western section. He said : "Any pro- posal that tails short of building from ocean to ocean, I would not .support." The new Syndicate does not propose to do more than that., Those lands, one- third to be granted umkr the A.ct of 1874, were taken possession of by the Government for the purpose of preventing their behig held and Vx^ing disposf^d of by a mono[)oly. They desire to dispose of them as lapidly as possible, to jirevent a company from holding them at the expense of the settlers a.id ot the Government lands. With regard to the building of tins great, and expensive, %nd gigantic undertaking, I will state, not the policy and opinion of the Reform party, bub simply n:y own. I think the Dominion has done enough and been liberal with regard to their expemhture of the Pacific Railway, in the opening uj) and making accessible lands for .settlement in the North-West, and that they have srone to the extreme of their abilities in this matter. When thoy have completed . the .sections of the railwny under con- struction, they will have spent for the railway .?.'35, 000,000 ; purchase of Hudson's Bay Territory, $1,. 500,000; compensation to the Intlians, $600,000 per annum, which, if capitalized, makea Ji3 sum equal to .«L5,000.000 ; expeiidi- ture on Dominion laiids, Surveys, Mount- ed Police, Indian payments, Red River expeditions and minor items, .$11,183,000 —Total, $r)2,(>83,000. This the people will have to expend to open up the North-West, for those who are there and those who may be induced to go there in the future. I contend that that enor- mous sum s more than we could have been properlj' c.-dled upon to expend for this object — that we have done our whole duty to the North-West in this raspect. I would not, if I had the power, build more than T.O or a 100 miles a year pf this read, just enoug' to keep in advance of til Thi^ witliol ])eopl(i The wil' l| ^ those I Terriil I will f| y^'ar 'M diau :Pcml| go b doul)t| to bo Arne and that the fastei i 9 y mililic woik t" 1*0 ijiven ill tliiit wav. were, eiicirely tli(> Govern- uiaiunr. He e could nok s'toni section, ic lion, gen- f new Syndi- le f'fistein or "Any firo- iiililing from lot Kupport." 'fc ]>ro])ose to • iiintls, one- the A.ct of 1 of by the )f Jiroventing ispos(".I of by o dispose of to jirevent a i tli« expense CJoveinmsnt building of i^d gigantic t llic policy party, but e Dominion cm liberal iture of the ing uj) and settlement txiey have abilities in K completed under con- spent for mrcliase of 11,500,000; , $600,000 zed, make* • ; expendi- ys, Mount- Hed River 11,183,000 tl'O people '11 np the are there to go there that enor- ould have ?xpeud for our whole is respect, wer, build a year pf n advance of the soltleinpnt in the North West. This is all we should do, or are able to do without griii'li.i:^ down the 'iieJi^irs of thf people who have to ruriii.sh this money. The road fiJiii Thunder Bay to Selkirk . wil' be completed in a year o.- two, when , those who are t.wo lnyai tocro.'.s Aiiierit.'au Territory to get to our North-West will have seven monflis in the y.ar for the journey by a Cana- dian I'outc ; ill atldilir.n we liiive tin; Pembina Brauvli, and those '.vho want to go tc the Nortli-West, and are not so doubtful about their loyalty, or arc afraid to be^ weaued from it by travelling over Amisrioau soil, can go through the States and use that bra7ich. I do not think that the interests of the North-West or the Dominion require our proceeding faster with this work. We ought not to forget the peojile who are struggling hard for a living throughout the Doniinion, the lai'ge majority of whom though not in want are comparatively poor; these millions have little to expend over and above the payments for their necessary wants. With n-^ard to this great work there have hoin five distinct proposals. First, the Allen conti-act, whicli, with all its defect?!, was preferable to the arrange- ment Oil the Table ; next, caine the fan)ous Mackenzie Art of LSTl, under which no otVers wei-o made or coiitracts given. The Government had tlie alter- native in that case of going on with the work thcniselves, and they did goon wjh it dowly, but as fa:-ft as the interests of the country deman*;;-'!. and its resources were justified, comiileting certain portions before they left oiKce. The next proposition was tleit of the present Minister of l»aiKvays to ajipropriate 100,00(),0()0 acres for Iho completion of this railway. That was a great scheme, and he made a great speech iu- trodueing it. Wf. were led to believe (.Tovernment would succeed ; they w(>re going to make a co-partnership with the JJritish Government, and persuade them it was for o\ir mutual a(ivantage, ami that our Government could find homes for theii' sur{)lus population of tho Mother (Country in the North-West ; our Minis- ters went home and did iheir Itest but did not succeed, on their coming back we found the whole schema had collapsed. The Government then undertook this railway as a Governnitut work, and we were told that tenders had been received fo.' the coiistruction of 127 miles in the Rocky Mountains, proving the Govern- ruent had demd^d to piMceed with it That projw.sal was met l>y a motion of the leader of the Opijosition, which was def.vited, and the (iovernment went on with the construction of the. road as a Government woik. The next, la.st and worst proposition that has l)een made is the one now before P.'iliaii 'Ut. With i-egiird to this last and worst proi)Orial evei- made to Pailiamert, wo knev/ littlo about it until we camc! liere on the 10th of December. All that we knew before Parliament met was Uiat $2r),0()(),(K)0an.l 2.1,000,000 acres of land were co be given to build the Pacific Jiailway. I freely ai8 about the only brigiit }>articular stai' — his face ihc only one which did not immediately go undtn- a cloud. Nothing the Government could do, could change the smiliug fuce of the lion, member for Niagura, who seems always anointed with the oil «{ gladness. But I knew by the faces of other hon. gentlemen how they felt, and I knew by the faces of the Gov- ernment that they, too were blue. And what was the remedy for the terrible shock which hoji. gentlemen received ] A ckucUB was uumuioued and the whips were told to give ihe order: "To-morrow we ate t,) hold a caucus and see what is to pay 1 The deuce was to j)ay, and no jutch hot. And next day, lot us look at them. Young men in the vigor of youth, and grey hairs of age, with their heads bowed like bul- rushes ; they paused through these doors, they trailed along the corridors, through the lobbies and up the stairs like slaves chained to their dungeons, ■ cursing tiie man who led tliem to their fate. They may tell ni« that they ai>i(roved of the contract ; but I know hotter. They marched into room No. 2[) to the tune of the " Dead March " in SauJ. Much, as they esteem their gallant leader they would rather have lollowed hira to his grave than to that caui'us. Do you think they want to glorify and laud and mag- nify the leader of the Government on that occasion. By no means ; it took them a good while before they began to magnify and glorify him. He had to pass the magic wand a great many times over their heads before they wero reconciled. I can imagine the hon. Mimister of Bailways being there to cxauiino them before they went out. lie said, " hihow me your tongue," aud liesa-d to th\'iu ; " Ofco.irsc you are not dangaronsly ill ; if you only hold your tongue — keej) quiet and be very careful, yon will pull through." To another : " Let me feel your pulse ; you are) certainly a little feveri.sh, but you will bo all right " So they went out, and they have since been recovering, until now nearly the last man has made up his mind to bow the knee to Baal and let the c luntry go to the dogs. The Minister of Railways said that the line north of Lake Superior w«s necessary to the maintenanoo ol British in.stitutions in this country. That is a poser ; wlien they come to that, there is no meeting that argument. That hon. gentleman seems to be superloyal. I do not know much about him pex'soaally; but I fancy he is not much more loy il than other people, or that he is much more attached to British institutions, lis i« remarkably attached to British institu- tions, when it suits his purpose and politi- cal exigencies require it. I warn my friends from Quebec to watch the hon. gentleman. He is so loyal, I would not l>e surprised if he introduced a resolution d«olaring that only Anglo-Saxon should le spoken here. He is very loyal, when it may effect his own purposes. Ho now wants to adopt British institutions, and he is so remai kably loyal that he wishes peoj>i(; to travel round the north shore of Lake Suj)erior to reach the North-West. How did these hon. gentlemen deal with the question of loyalty and love of British institutions formerly ? They condeumed one^et^of Bn'tish insti- tutioiLS. They were not loyal with re- gard to fre«! trade. They did not desire to adopt British institutions in that particular, and give the peoi)le chfjap bread. It was Cana to meet the expenses. It was f their duty under the Act of 1^74 that was I then u])ou the Statute-book, because I an Act j)as,sod by Parliament should not '• be violated by the Government, for it was ,; ])lac«d tiiere for a purpose, to have called lor tenders undflr that Act. I think they failed veiy aauch in their duty in not liaving observed the law and asked for tenders, so that the public and capitalists , might have known not only that the (iovernment -wanted tender.",, but that they were to make concessions such as , they have mjule, secretly and clandes- ]■ tinely to this Syndicate, so that all con- tractors might intelligently have sent in tanders. Now, wliat are these enormous ooncessions made to the Company ? The contractors have to select the choicest lands. The line is to be free from tax- ation for twenty years or until settled. All the lauds required for stations and docks are a free gift in addition to the land subsidy. The material for the con- struction of the road is to be admitted duty free. Should the Company choose Indian lands, the Goverunient have to extinguish the title. The Company may to some extent change the route of the road, taking it even furthei- down to ihat terrible parallel, forty-nin«. The right of way and roiul-bed are given free to the Company. Tlie railway and all pro{>erty of the Company will b« free from taxation for ever. The Company kave the right to construct all branch lines, and the Oovernraent must give the road-bed and »11 lands required by the Syndicate for building ground, yard, etc. For twenty years the Government shall not charter companies to construct its lines within fifteen miliii of the bouadary line, fxo"pt Kueh lines us sha!! r;i;; 80uth-we4 or west of south. This is a vory objectionable feature in the contract. I cmnot con- ceive why the ps'ople of the North West should bo prohibited from asiociating with the people on the soith nide of the boundary line. Who are they? Are they Hottentots, savages, or cannibals, a rai-e with whom it would be dangerous to iiHsociate ? No; they are KLiglisli, Irish, Scotch, French and Canadi ms, ol , the same llesh and blood, aii'l speaking the same lansruage as ourselves. If it is to interest of the peoi)!e with thost^ the interest of the North- West to associate across the line, why should vent them by of the we pre- law ? If it is to their interest to build a raiUay south of the point .specilied, why iihotdd we higis- iate that fur twenty years no sucli road shall be l)uilt, fxccpc by the Syndicate. No other line should go there, according to the Govcrnmont's proposal, however much the commercial conditiori reqijires it. The Government had iu^iugurat(!d a policy which cannot succeed. You may make laws to that etlVct, but you cannot overturn the laws of commerce, and of nature, and the laws of God. You ven- ture upon a policy that, instead of per- petuating British institutions in Canada will have the eltect of m:iking the people dissatisfied, driving them tVoii^ tlie coun- try, and producing confusion and auKrchy in the future. You played upoi the loyalty of the people, you playol upon their prejudices, till you carried out your purpo.se.s. I am astonished that in this enlightened age, among people so intelli- gent as ours, you should have ventured in this nineteenth century to enter into such a [)olii;y as you now propose. It will be a signal failure, and the dissatis- faction and evil that will follow will not tend to make the people loyal. The policy of the present Goveriiiiieut hay been to prevent us from doing that which it was our intei-est to do. They hare undertaken to do away with all natural law, to make us go the longest way round, to make us travel as fur a.s they can to get to any pait of the Dominion, to make us trade with peoi)lo that it is contrary to our interest to trade with, and they tax us if we go where it is our interest to trade. They are acting coa- irary to all reason, to all common sense, »nd contrary to sound politiciil prinoiple. Oominj; back to this Syudicato bargain, I 12 find thiit the lllli (.'lauso provides tlmt tlio j)ro|)(')ty of tlie Oorup:iny, the rjad Jiiivl Innds, are- tlan with regard to this, particular 100 miles { That section, I believe, is now completed for some GO or 70 miles, and the wiiole could be com- pleted very early next season. TliO Government not only propose to complete it at a cost of $i>00,000, but to give the Company a subsidy of .$10,000 a mile for this very section, which is equal to ipl, 000,000, as well lus 1,250,000 acres which are there worth at least $5 an acre, or .$0,250,000 ; in other words,, they give the Company $7,250,000 and they take back $l'UO,000 for what they expended on the road, leaving a clear balance in favor of thvi Syndicate of k^o,25 jthe ml i tract, I cxplal the Bf very tittle! jnsifl y th| ; \ince; the 1 1 %AVestJ '|spenil| 4 Poniil ■I. . L 'I done. I will I — ^^" ■^ aelve: • retii. t i" ^' I been ij> creas I $U7 I We !, it is ,^ impo ,'; milli •I I ft 13 ■<^II<1 wjiicll tllPM- oiilil cdst ,$t8,- UUO tVr>4n $75,- jv">(;(),0()0 tlint Syiniicatt) more iiii^iM- OHtirimtcd I h>i\ o nover oxpl.iin, nrir i-xpl.-iii), how tlio (Joinpaiiy their engineer KS5 miles were enow lidw they o\>h\ TJiey go Act of 1874 lier the Allan ig to with wJiat nndtrtook to fiot. But how )o,sit(:i r(;ooncile giving so much tif tliis road fc ? Of course in ten- years ■« ill foo simple larkuhle thing * 5th clause, l>le than any I's to the 100 >fS- This 100 ilk was conV ►'orlc, uuil the "ile, exclusive iOOO.OOO; the so that if the i'-l constiu'-tetl lujient work, eu $900,000. md construct ish Columbia and hand it ''liy did they gard to thin, it .section, I • some CO or uld be com- fa.son. The e to complete to give the 00 a mile for is equal to. 30,000 acres least $5 an )ther words,. $7,250,000 )0 for what I, leaving a f^yndicate of }> ?6, 250,000. This is, to my mind, one of j [the most remarkable features of this con- 1 'tract, and one which I have never heard | ^■explained by the Government. T think the Domini )n of Canada has contributiid "Tery liberally towards the interests of the fiettlers in the North-West. Wiien wo Consider the trials and haidshijw endured by the })ioaeer settlers of tlie older Pro- ^Tinces, we must, I think, conclude tli.it the .Dominion has done all for the North- IWcst they are entitled to do. We are Ispendingall we can grind out of the ptso- fple for this North-West, ami I hu])e the people of the North-West Avili rftpay the Dominion to some extent for what it has done. But if this contract is passed, they will he crip[iled, burdened and oppressed -they will be unable to support tliem- Bclves, to "say nothing of making any retu'.-n for the millions we have (expended in order to hel|) them. Our d<:bt has Ijeen increasiufj enormously. It has in- creased from ' $77,500,000 hi 1^71 to $147,000,000 in 18711, nearly double. We are i^ealing in such large figures that it is almost imjtossible t^. realize their full import. W^ith I'egard to this idea of millions, I will read a short articlt; from one of our papers published in St. John : "The Conaervativ.* press treat the giving away ot i'). 000,000 acres of laael in the Nortii- West as a very sinall matter ; they have s^rown so accustomed to talk in millions tint tlieir «enfe of proportiou has Imioine (|uito lost. They do not realize what 25,000.00',) nccx of selected land rcaliy 'iicms. That is a larger piece of territory than the ciiitivit^d i.r-a of Eigland. After two thouaund vpar.s of tiLate the whfde cultivateri area of l'>igl.'in,l is but 34,.59(i,'2r)6 pcres, inclUdi'.ig Uiuk i:i pt»ture ai well as under cro)), or niure than 4iX),(X)0 acres leas than the Syndic ite are to receive. '■ The whole cuitivated area of Ireland, in- cluding' permanent pisture is but l."),3;?7,8r)li acriis, or nearly 10,000,000 acr's losa than tiic caornious land ^'raiit whi(di tin? Syndicai-e are to rec'ive for buililini^ thfi Pacific radway. " The whole cultivated area of Scotland is 4,738,127 acres, or less than oiie-lhtii of the Syndicate's land griut. In fact, the whole area of Scotland, iiic'udiiig islands, rock>, rnoun- tiiins and moors, is 5.500,000 acres ksa tnau the Syndicate's land grant. " According to the last ceufus tlio total area of inipioved land in Canada was an follows: — Ontario 8.8:13,636 gnebec .%,703,944 New Brunswick 1,171,157 Nova Scotia 1,627,091 P. K. 1 445, 103 ' The Syndicate's land grant will therefore be upwards ot 7,000,000 acrs larger than the wliole cultivated arei of the Uonuuion in 1871, ju even, after niakuig a large allowance for incriaso sine the last cunsu.*, mui;h largor than its pro-ent cultivated area ; and jot Sr Charles thinks that any one who olject.f to him i/iviug aw, y to Tiiluiiy ui mopolia';* ,\ territory titteeu times -M li»nk np tlie paper. He tf'legraplied at ouce to Sir Wm. Howland to count him in. He could, he said, build the iirairie section for less than $8,000 a mile. He believed a roail could bo built oil the prairie for ?8,000 a mile. He was aware a road was nearly comjileted from St. John to St. Stephen in New Bruns- wick, through a diificnlt country, wliich ■would not cost more than $10,000 a mile. That gentlemen told me also he would have no hesitation in making a road very much cheaper than that i)ro|iosed by the last offer. Hud he been present he would have ui'deitaken to build the road for $20,000,000 and 20,000,000 acres of land. This contract wms made entirely without the authority of the law. The only Act under which this work could be done was that of ' 874 ; but it gave no authority to the Government to bind this country to oomjdete 706 miles of road in ten years, which would cost the country nearly 853,000,000, and ha,nd it over to the Syndicate. The Act of 1874 only author- ized the Government to give a company $10,000 a mile, or $27,000,000, without making any exemptions from duty or tax »tion, or giving of the conces.sions which make this contract so runious to the conn- try. That Act did not prevent other oompaHies from building railways where- ever and whenever they ples.se. The re- sult at present is a foregone conclusion. The hon. gentlemen opposite have one after another fallen into line. They have made up their minds to f;}icrifi<'e this country and to stifle tlieir convictions. I cannot understand, how in this free coun- try ^vith Its religtoiis ami oducational ad- vantages, and freedom of thought and ac- tion, hon. gtmtlemwn could, in thi' ag« of the woild, make up their minds to adopt liiis contract. I can understand how toe heathen in in his blindneNS bow.s down to wood and stone, and how the swarthy Hindoos, in order to appease their imagi- nary gods and satisfy a guilty conscianctft can cast their infanta to th« cruel jaws of the monsters of the deep. I can under- stand how the heat hen can prastrato them- selve* before the car of Juggernaut ; but I cannot undei-stand how men in Canada, this fiec land, can sacrifice not only their convictions, not only their judgments, but can sacrifice the miilions of the people in this Dominion, and the interest of the country, to support a government that has illegally brought before the country a con- tract ruinous to the best interest of the people, and which will in the end ruin the men who adopt it. January ISth, JSSl. Sir albert J. SMITH said: Not- withstanding the extent to which this dis- cussion has been j)rotracted, I feel ittoW my duty to make a few observations upon the subject befQre the House. It is undotibtedly a subject of the rery greatest importance, a subject whose iniportanc« has not been over-rated. It is a subject which involves the exjjenditure of $100,- 000,000, or one which, had we the popu- lation of England, would involve th« consideratian of $1,000,000,000. But it is not only a question of money ; it is a (juestion of concessions made which have no precedent in this country. It is a question involving the letnission of taxes on property, not less than $50,000.00 or $100,000.00 ; it is a question involving a gigantic monopoly, a monopoly securing to this (yompany the whole carrying trade of the North-Weat for at least twenty years. If these are the con-siderations involved in this <|ue.stion, then I say it is qui,te impossible for us to overrate its importance. It has been said that this. 16 iiaesiion is too transcendent in its con- Bequonoes to be determined as a mere mutter of party, but from the course wliicU this discuBsion is now taking it is evident that it will be determined by mere party and political considerations. 1 tiiniiy beliere th.it if it were posnible for hon. gentlemen opposite to emancipaUi them««lves from their party ties and their party allegiance, noc Ilss than 100 men on iho other side of tiie House, if they aoted upon their conscientious and patriotic convictions, woidd cross the floor aiid vote aj^ninst this measure. And though I feiir it would aevm impo.?Hilple for tliem to do so, I as»k them if it would not be a splendid spectacle to see these hon. gaiitli-meu acting on their convictions *ud voting for the true interests of the count) y. Tlie hon. ^iinister of liiiilways has spoken ot the legacy whicii he internis tr. leav<.' to his children, but I think if these lion, gentlemen should choose to act in the patriotic manner I suggest they would iu)moralize themselves and leave to their children an indnitidy better legacy than that which seems to satisfy the hopes of ths Minister of llailways. It is necessary for us in considering this ques- tion to carry our mind back for some time. Recollect the pressure that wii.s iK'ought to bear on the party in 1871 in oonnectiou wiih this question. We were told that if we did not adopt the measure which was then before the House, British Columbia would go out of the Union. We were told that time was iir portant and that the matter must be [jressed an to early decision. At that time the Cloverument imposed an obligation on this country of which the present contract ia the sequel. The followers of the ritish Columbia in ten vears, notwithstanditi'' the i)rotedts which were made from this side of the House against an obli- gation who.se fulfilment has been an embarrassment to this country ever since, A change of Qovernmeiit took placf*, and the member for Lambton has explaine far as in him lay to maintain the public faith of the country and carry out th« obligation which his prodeces-sors haany, and not by the (Tovernment. It is quite true, at the initiation of this measure, in 1871, a resolution of that kind was pas.sed and approved, generally by both parties. ,But while the member for Lambton presided over tlie Govern- ment of this cou.ntry and wa.' anxious to do what was possible, consistently with that overshndowing condition that the taxation siiould not be increased, thi'j measure of 1874 was passed, .tml, as he explained, to-night, the Act did not make ,7 16 nn oll't-r to any piirticulivr Bet of nion, but ])rovi(li'd I'or tho construction of tlio road ns fast as tho finances of tho country TS'onld ji;stity, ami nutliin-,' I'urthtT. It did not n!(|uii-e tliat the wholo should ht^ built at once, or put inidi-r contract irnnit'diatcly. but authon/cd its construc- tion by sectioMs. Unrha- the late (tovern- ' ineut, a, jtoilion had l)een coi.slrncted oi' lot as a f^ovo/mneut work, and tho IVuiiMiia Ihancli liiii.shcd. A large portion of the line from Tluuuler Bay to Selkirk was under contract when the Ooverinnent chanj,'ed. What was the policy of tiio incoming Govornment 'I It ■was to cons'.truct tlii.s as a Cjloveiiuuont work. Now, I will show, Ironi the speeches of tho First Minister himself, and Minister of Pidilic Works, tluit they have deiiliei'ately /ibandoned their settled policy, which was to construct that road as a Government work, and in no other ■way. What did they do in LS79 i The Minister of Jlailways snlnnitted his resohitions, and told tho House in n, very elaborate and able Hj)eech, that lie had reason to believer that the British Govern- ment were j)repared to render substantial aidand assistan^ie in the cou.struction of the railway. I ask hon. nievnljors to refer to liisseriesof resoliitions,andsee whethertho Ctovernmentof thetinie did not announce, • through tho jNIinister of Jlailways, their policy that this road should lie constructed as a GovernnuMit work. The\' then took authority to utilize 10(),()()(J,000 acres, and t Id us they bfdioved the Ih'itish Oovernment would assist them, and also to provide for the (".stablislmient of a tribunal consistlnt' of several trustees of this line, a portion of whom weretoboa])- ])ointed by the British (Jovonimcrit ; and provid
    cean should lie built as a public work. Will hon, iir.'mburs deny that, or that tlie First Minister himself, witii tho responsiliility of his position, went into an elaborate calculation to show that this whohs road eould be built ms a public work without costing tlie peo])le a dollar I His sp(!'!ch proves my statement. Jn submit- ting the resolutions with regard to the Canada Facilic llailway, he said : "Wha* th(! policy of tho Into Oovcrnmont would luvve breri wi! do not Icmow. * » • • but wlii'ii wo canu^ into ollko we Uooiiled to undjrtake it ai a, \>\\]>\io w«)iU." Can any lion. memVjer donj' or gainsay that! What does tho ^Minister ot Hall- ways Himself say on that point! '• i had no hesitation in saying tha^; tjii> whole ariitimmit of tli • country is changod on tliiB (]Hf'atiou. I am not at all ashani'il to say my own o]iinion.s aro ohaiigod in relation to the ciiuractt'r of this g'o it w ork. I r«inuinl)i;r wlien tlie Knst Miniater lirought in his Act in 1874, fur th'! cou' truction ol this as u (Jinerument work, I felt we wen: ini'urring too y rent a rc.-jjon- si'-ibty. I hobeve it was nr.fiafe for the (jovernmont to undertake the conHtruction of this great werk fnmi end to t iid ; but 1 do not hesitate to express my opinic ii that tlie whole condition of Canada lia.s changed since that time." Now, let us deal reaponably with the facts and not bo blinded with mere political considcr.itions. Have we not shown out of the mouths of both hon. Ministers that the Govcnimont policy was to construct this railway as a Government work ] Was tln-re a single hon. member last Session, after those declarations of policy, who had tin; slightest idea that the Government intended to deal with the Syndicate, a party of sieciuators, during tlie recess, for the purpose of constructing tills railway ? I ventnr',; to affirm that not a man in thTag.i family numbers five — the head of the family and four others. In the Western States the average is not so large, f ir obvious reasons ; because so many young men go in without family to settle there. * * * V\ e then tike the average price of the whole of the lani-^ extending fnnn the ?"> Bcction, Within five miles of the railway, t > sixty or 100 miles away. The average price of the lands sold to the 1,500 purcba-ers would be $3 an acre — thi« i < greatly under the average. What, then, would be the result ? Mr. BLAKE : Over the whole belt— 220 miles T Sir.TOHN A. MACDONALD: Yes. Takell, J2.,')0, 14 and ?5 pjr acre, and the avera 'o, $3 ; admit wo soil at tlioRi terniH land \ in 1880, to the value of $1,440,0')0, of which we shall receive one-tenth the jtrico, or .'S 144,000, we should receive from the fees from the homo- stead and prc-einptioii grants .^(i#,0()0 more, making in all .^-.'Ot.OW in (!ash. Then wo cftlculatfl that, as 25,000 would go in this year, wo may add each year an incrr^ase of 5,000, so that wo may expect .'10,000 to go in next year. That is a very small [lur cntage, if we look to the results from railway citcrpriso in the Unite 1 St'itea Wo a.ssuin«, hcreforo, an in- crease of 5,000 a year till 18!I0, and expect in that year "o.OOO settlers in our North-West. Mr. BLAKE : Can yau not make it another 10,000? Sir.IOHN A. MACnONALU : I think that is a very moderate estimate. <)a those figures, the CBtimato of the total eish revenue to be received for the lands, by ISUO, is S;i end of 1800, Hut, besides, tli"!'" will be ivll the instalments to ccunc i'l after 1800, accruiut;, yearly, so that the lands sidd iu 1890 will be one-tenth paid for ninuy *ars a'terw 'rd« — for each yeai- there will be an i 'Stabiient of one-tenth paid. The actual viiiuo in 1890, of the pvt'-cinption, up to that d ite, upiiil wdl h$ .'Jl(i,4 10,0110 The actual value nf the railway lands s.ild ujiti that diit« wdl be .'ji 1(5 ,'272 000, making in all, iJ.'W 712 1100. If von ad. I to that total, unpaid, the .S.'i8,59.f,0n0 that wdl be paid in 1890. y n ;;of a grand total of .?71. 305,000. Heluet from 'hat the cstitraed cost of s irvwys for the ten years, ::52,000,O00, and of the land offieers. .*!400,00l), and yon r.;duco it V.y .52,400,. 000. [Living* shown that the c-itiinite of the number of settlers, if the land be ^ak' n uji, and if the avenge price is notexc .-^s ve, we Hiid we a'la'.l iuive ."ijliO.OOO.CXJO licluro! money in hand, or money f >r winch we shal' hive thvj bes'; ■security ii t'le world — the laii'l itself. T la whole estimated cost of th'> ridwav, including s'.irvevs. Hill c nstruction tlir 'Ug i the ilitiicn't as wtll as the praT o cou'itiy. ilues 'ot exceed, by ti.i<" most excessive co'iiputat i.ii, §75,000,0 )0 — f ir the work !:<'n\ Lako Supc or to the Pacific Ocean. 1 believe h u «e'tlemon op- p site will be surprised, vet, to fi id 't bu It for less than iji/o.OOU.lMXI. It wid i-oi, cost more in the mobt rigid ealcubitiiui. Some gentlemaa and n-wspapers hiv.; said that tlie ihigineer- in-Chiif is one of the m st extravagant engineers p)8Biblo. We can, tlieretore, place some reliance on hi: (•■>li>iiIattOB. If we fioi'^h the road for $75,000,000, and in the firdii and contributor! to tho revenno. \Ve ahull be receiving a large revenue from that country altogothcr indopcn'lont of the ppxiuotH of the lands. Where, then, ii there any danger of thii uountry brk ttro^ro^re", including tho claima for iutfrcst. I believe tiat tbo interest U[)()n upon the rjiilway cxpendituru can easily lo defrayed with lUt adding further tuthe taxation of the country." TIhh seems to be a vory clear and hi(;itl stateiiioiit from tho Pirst Minister. He ivsHureH liis friends on tho otiicr side and t<;lls the country, thniugii I'arliiiinent, that he will in ten years sell land enough to realize all tho money re(|uired toi- thc^ coiiHtiuetion oC tlio (Janadiaii Paeitie Rail- way, not only |irOH[)eetivo exiienditure, %ut the expenditure that had already taken iihiee,aniountinf,'tofr()m$l."i,00(),()0(» to .S20,()0(),()(H). Now, then, did tlie Hon. monilxn' approve of th(! scheme ? Did lion, nicmlxu's on tlio other side declare their acquiescence and signify their wil- lingness that this mode of construction should 1)0 adopted ? They did. How does it lay in their mouth to take other ground and say tliat tliis railway sliould bo built thiough tho agency of a com- pany I Tho (jcovernment ileclared their policy and tho hon. members on the other side sanctioned and approved of that policy without a dissenting voice, and cheered vocifiaously when this policy was announced from time to time. Now, I tUink I have established sulliciently that tho delinite policy of the latt! (iovernment was that this railway should be built by the Governnient. I have shown that thoy themselves provided the means by which tho railway was to be built, aiul that the money was to bo realized out of tho land in 10 years to construct this whole, railway, and th.it its construction should put no financial burden upon tlie people. It nuist be evident to every one that such was tho policy of tho (Jovern- ment at the close of last Session. What took the«e hon. members to Englaiul ; Tho oountry knew nothing about ii ; thoy had not been authorized by this House tO' go ; they went to Kngland without the knowledge or authority of Parliament, and [ wouW like tn see tho Order in ('oiineil authorizing that dolegation to England. What waH the n^sult there?' Wo were told that they were onliHting tho greatest bankei-s of tlie age, that they were successful in their mission — frora time to time it was declarwl in their newspapers that they were succeeding. Did they suecet-d ( What dot^s tho result show ! They did not suoceed. They returned to this country, and what do w« find f Wo find tho First Minister, on liis return, makes his speech, and I think it may bo said it was an luifortnnato speech, and orio which will cost thin country millions of dollars. What did ho tell those gentlemen who waited upon him the members of tho Club Cartier who presented him with an addr(!ss and who s(!emed to be under the delusion thai ho had been succes-ful in his mission f He told those gentlemen that ho had m> do a contract in Englaud — a contract firm as he called it — which would relieve tho people of this country of the entire cost of the railway. Will any hon. gen- tliMiian .say he did not say that J Had the right hon. gentleman any wiirrant for saying that a contract was made in Eng- land i Jt was made in this country, and if it were made in England, why, when information waa asked for by this House, was it ke[)t back 1 Is it not due to the people of this country, when we find a concract made, involving upwards of !|100,()0(),000 of tho people's money that tlify sliould know something about it '} This contract was made in direct contritvention of the law of tho land. If tlieio is one principle more than another sacred to the people of this country, it is that contract?- for public, works should b(! given to public competi- tion. Do hoir. members on that side justify a )iractioe opposite to that prin- ciple? This contract was made Iwhind the backs of the people of this country, - and it is tho privilege of this House to know who it was that those gentlemen corresponded with, who it was they in- vited tenlod under foot tlio Hiicred rights of tho people and tlie hiw of the land. They went ti> Hngland without authority, and they inndo this contract without authority. It in not of tho Innt iinportimeo th;it wo should know wlio were thoHo gentlemen that tho Ministev of llailways corresponded with in reference to tliis contract I Hf R (JHA11LP:H TUPPER : Tlio hon. gentlemen haa asked mo a question ; I will answer hiui l)y reading from tho Toronto illok', in its article giring tho events of the year ; " The o?ent t f tho SePHsion wa« tho diviaon on the ({ui'Htiun «f letting the contr.o's for the Ynio-Kumloo|)» fleutiuii of the Pacific Railway m Brit'S*! Ccluml/ia. The Minister uiiiHliiM.'Mt, in liio lif'o to roinc lor till' political i^ins of tliis life, J am ufraid liat my hon. friend will not have tim opportunity of lookHig down, lint will In- olilif(i'(l to look up if ho wiwlifs til «('o (liOHo ;j;oin,!^ to ilritlNli t'oinniliia. 1 think we iiin Miiy without lu'Kitittion or f«iir of am iradiction, that llii- ini^hioii of tho (Gov- ernment in iMi^land was aliortivi^ Tln^y made no eontract theru ; they cuuHulted, apparently, Mr. Ilcse aH one of tint par- ties who Joined the iSyndiiiate. or rather his son, and then rutiuned honn^ without nndoplo havi* not given any authority to the (ioveinment to make that contract. In demonstrating the value of tho landa, 1 see no renson or excuse foi' lion, members ojiposite for appealing to speeches made seven years ago liy hon. nuMuhers on this side as to their value. J am going to (juote the speech of the light hon. I'roniier of last year I have great conHdenci* in liis judgment. I will quote his opinions iis to the valueof the lands, and I jiresume lie stands now by that opinion. The hon. Minister of Railways has ohaii^cd his i.'iind several times in this matter and is })roud to aeknowh'dge the change, but I do not think the First Minister will deny now that he stated these lands were worth $3^an acre. The hon. Minister for Rail- ways in 1875, told us that if he had the ri^lit to nuloct the choice lundN of tho country those lands were worth #5 an aere ; but we must make some allowancn for the i»C4!Ustomed exaggerutiotis of tho hon. Minister of HailvayN, and I prefer to adiipt the value put upcui '.he lands by the Kirst Minister. lie tohl us last year they were worth $',\ an aere, If they were worth !?;i an ac-e, I want to show what has been don(> by this ( lovernment, with this Syndicate. Is it necessi.ry for me to read the estimate given by the Ministtsr of Railways as to iho cost of thia work. He stated as follows : — SirCHAKLKS TUITKU: Before «ix o'clock I WH-i uliuut t tkiiiK ii]i tli'< (lUciiKHi of tho ex- [H'li iilnri' that will Ins reiiuirt'd to uoiniihto Iht i^tnail III) I'mMtic RiilMiiy. I will now Rutiniit II calculation I hflii'vo to lie an outHiilo one, or ftliDVo tlif pr "bftblo outliiy. TiiiH c-tiniato li»s lit'i'ii pr(;|iHr<'(i by u ^uiitlt'iniii who lias had tho A'idiMt aiul iicHt o|i]i irtiinity (it foriii'hf^ a dtli- hcii'iitc and dispas-ionato jiuh'inent on thu 8ub- ject--a Kcntl- innn whonc ability, in iny opinion, Is only exccrdod by his cauMon— Mr. Sandford I'loiniiiff, Kiiniiicor in Chief of the Canada riK.'iti'j KiiUay. 11 iwovcr inn.li ttiis estiniato iif ix|ioiiditnrti in^iy bi! rcduc d, 1 atn buro it cannot bo exceeded. The dintan-c from I.,ike Superior to Hurrard Inlet is l.iiril! inile'< ; that IS, adding tweaty miles for the diversion of the lino til t'lo Houtli of Liik" Maiiitolia, and de- ducting tlirco und thrfc-imarter miles for the r''dtictloa in t'te distance between Like bike J.n|ierlor and lie I Rive-, and tho shorten- iim by the ehftugo of route pattsinii north of Kdiiionton iiiHtead of s lUth as before. That total inclndi* the Kort Will am and Selkirk section of 400 niile-t ai now reduced ; and for tha^. I submit an tstiinate for completion in the inai'ner intended as a firat-dass road, and with a tb"r«uah «(|uipineiit for tha largo tratho ex- po 'ted, and including terminal jitations, .$I7,<)10,001», or 81,000,000 les' for the reasons stated tiiau my estiiiiat:e of la^t year. The 1,000 from Sulkirli to Ja-per Valley,' tho divid- ing point just boyoud the foot of tho Rocky MouutainR, including a light ecjuipinent — all that will l)n rc(|uired for some years. Mr, FlcminiJ estimates at $1:1,000,000, that is $3,030,000 more than tln! average estimate for tho 2(10 m les west of Red River, in order to be entirely safe. We have 100 milci actually under contract, and have received tend' rs for the other 100 miles, and I do not exjiect the avcrai^o cost to exceed Uiat of the 100 miles just Lt. Mr. BLAKK: What is the amount estimated for the efiui[iment per mile 1 Sir CH.\RLKS TUPPER : A light equip- ment is all we akall require fur some years. Mr. BbXKE: Will it be $1,000 or |2,000 per mile ? Sir CHARLES TUPPER: W^hen the traffic demands a heavier e(iLipment there will be means for providing it. SI t estimated Mr, RLAKK : I only WHtit to know y')ur eiitiinittu ill ilulIarK. Sir Cll UJLKS TIJIM'KH: It in fi:i,()(X) per uiilit, a^ a;{Hinit »ii I'litiiiiutu m< hIioiiI I liu iiMtili.''! ill ^iviii^ of 9IU,(HN) II iiiil(>, muliiiif fM,(NK) (hid tii'O'u tli.'ui thi< avdi'u^c of tin* luiiniiiit pro'uhiy iiuuiImiI to (■oiii(tl)ttt' utid Hiijiply witli H fair <'i|ui|iiii(itit tliii '^00 iniitM wolmvu ui.iIhi' coiitruut on tiiM [iniirioH. Kroin .lasiKi' Vullt-y to I'ort Miiixly till) (liviniiL'u in .ViO iiiiIih. I'Vi in .faipiii' til Kunilirdii^, ill liritiHli Ciiluinlii.t. to wliiuh till! portiKii now iitiilor cuiitnict cxtoiulH id .'<.'{r» mil''", wliicli ciiii l)u oil! Ht"ii(!'iniou ou the subject. Hir AIJIKUT H.MITIl; The hon. geHtlemiMi can himself do that. Tf he were to look at this ipu'stion ufion itH meritn rather than tlirou;.^ii party eyes he would no more of tin- siibiect. Ibit I will deduct the $l;$,000,000 whicii these hon. I gentlemen say was the cist of the first thousand miles, and wu will have left .fll8,00«,000 for the thousand mib s which tkt) Hyndicato have to construct. And this \m^ to be paid for a railway around [jiike Su^ieriorand oneti'oni Jasper House to Kamloops. And how much do they say it wi.Mild cost to build thos,! two branclit'S I Krom Kort William to Nipis- sing, ■$20,000,000, and fro. n .Jiis|)er Houso to Kamloops,.*; 1 5,.")(J0,000; so that they are agreeing to pay 81 18,000,000 for what they themselves said would cost i?;!."), 500,000. These? caljulatious will justify their corii'Cikness to any kon. gontlomeu who chooses to look at this matter as a com mercial transaction, and that is how it should be regarded. I am >econiing contractors with a private company. Is not this a new doctrine to ii\corpor:'tt' in the adinii'.istration of the affairs of the counti y ? 1 never heard of the like beioie. The hon. membci- for Niagara Ruems to be such a disturbing eleni'.'nt as to render it almost impoiH^ible tor me to aiakc myself heard on the other hide It i.s stii)ulated in this barj;aiu that the Company should pay the Govern- ment the cost of the 100 miK'.s of rosul extending from W^inniiie^ westward and the other exf)en8es incurnid I»y the Government; and that they sjiall have the riglt to assume the said wor)- at any time on paying cost of construction incurred by the Government Thna tJie Syndicate hc'e a right to the expendi- ture by the Government — without i>aying a dollar of interest the" get the road for the bare cost, and also 1,250,000 acres of land, worth $3 an acre, $3,750,000— and all this for nothing. The next session of the contract provides the Government shall bu'ld a fine from Yale to Port Moody, which is to become the property of the Company. This is an extraordinary obligation to assume for themselves and any Government that may come after them. The hen. member for Niagara certainly deserves to be characterised in names I would not like to use here,' for his incessant • interruptions. He is so thorough and blind a follower of his leader that if his leader tolJ him the moon was made of green cheese he would echo the statement. I am coming to another point iis regards what the contract provides for in resjiect to those portions of the road which are to be constructed by and handed over to the Government. With I'ogard to those portionsof the road already built, and handed over to the Company, there is no forfeiture, there is nothing more than a simple covenant, to secure their running by the Com])any iii the interim, initil the rest of the i-oad is com- pleted. The contract provides : "The railway constructed under the terms hereof sliall he the property of the Company : and pending the completion of the eastern and central sections, the (JoverBment shall transfer to tiie Company the posscsHitm and right to work and run the s-varal |)orti*'n8 of the Canadian Pauitic Railway already constructed or as the same shall bo completed. And upon the completion ^r the eastern and central sections, the Government shall convey to the C«iiipauy, with a suitable number of station buildings "^nd with water service (hut without equjbment) these portions of the Canadian I'a.Mfic Railvray coi:8trucled or to be constructed by thi! Governnent which slialt then ha oora- pletod ; and upon completion of the remainder of the portion of Railway t« be constructed by the (Toverumout, that portion shall also be conveyed to the Company, and ttie Canadian I'acitic Railway sha'l becoms and be *' ereafter tke absolufe property of the Company. And the Company sh ill thereafter and forever effioieatly maintained, work and run the Canadian Pacific Railway." Now, what I say is this — thnt upon the completion of the line from Thunder Bay to Selku'k, the Company have the right to the use and possession of that line, and 23 der Bay le ngkt ine, and Hiay run it if they cbooae. They say they will run it : but when wo look for the security of the running of tliis road, vre find tha't the $1,000,000 security does uot ap[>Iy to it : "The contractors immediately aftnr the or- ganizatiou of the said Cniupuny shall deposit Witt, the Govjrnmeat $l,000,'(»00 in cash or approved secoiities, «s a security for the con atruction of the railway hereby contracted for." I find, also, tliat the bonds for livs mil- lion acres ta br> retained by the Govern- ment applies entirely to tlie running of the railway after it is coniplottMl : "The Gtovernmeut shall retain and hold ono- fifkh of such bonds as security foi *■. le due performance of the present contract m raspsct of the maintenance and continuous working of the riilA-ay by tba Company, as br r* in agri:8d, for tea yeaas, after tiie conriplciiun thereof." I would appeal to the Minister of Justice himself whether the position I take is not sound law and the true inter[)retation of this contract. When the hon. Minister of Railways was proiwunding his j)oIicy to the House, he anticipated an objection •which is now raised. I read from the Hansard of last Session : ' " I dare a»y I will be to'd by the hon. mem- ber for West Durham (Mr. Blake) : Granted that your fisures are correct, assuming that you can build this railway f jr evun lets money than you have edtimjited, yu have only en- countered the first dithjulty ; you have then to operate the li-ie, and the cost of that will bs ao greatly beyond anything you can hope to ob*;ain from it, that you will plau« an intoler able burthen upon the people of this country. I must address myself for a few momenta to that question. I will tirst give the iuformatios I heve just received from the Superintendent •F the Pembina Branch : " 'The 160 miles we have now opened in the 7%>rth-We3t, shows that fr»m the lit day of March to thj 12t;h day of April we have car- ried 6,236 passengers, and 1,248 loaded ca s ooutaiuing 12.460 toas of frei);ht. Tlio eroas receipts d'lriug that short period were $36,387, and working expenses $l.'>,000, leaving a n«t proUt of 921,387, and this during a more dith- oalt and at«rtny period than has b;en known for uaay years. ' "By July, 1882, we will have aVout 700 miles of this road in operation ; w< will have 85 miles from Selkirk to Emeraca or Si. Vincent. We will kave 20* miles in operatioa west of the Red River, which with the branch of 16 miles t > Winaipog will give ua some 700 miles in operation, without re- lereuse at all to tlm auatioas in British Columbia. I have every reason to biitlieve that every mile of that road, from tlie day it is opened, will make an ample return for all the expsuditure iBCurred in its operation. I think it ia safe to eay that iu every aucceeuing year, a« wu extend gradually this road towards the Rocky Moan- tains, it wd! furnish such an a iditional volume of traffic from Ked River to Tnunder Bay, which will become the gteat entrepot of that country, as will prevent it fr^n burtheuing the people, and give us some fair return for the interest on the money used iu its construction." This is the character of the pro[>erty we are handing over to this Syndicate. What more? Has it occurred to hon. gentlemen on the otiier side that this Pembina Branch, which has been in full operation for some time, must be handed over to this Comnany as soon as tliis contract is ratified ? We have a return showing that during the })a8t year about 800,000 of net revenue has been derived from the runniiig,of that road over and above working exjxmses. Has it been considered that there is a property which is a productive and paying property, and th;it when the country becomes developed and settled with a thriving population, and the business increases, the revenue, instead of being $60,000, is likely to be 1100,000 ? I do not believe the Minister of Railways himself will dispute that statement. And yet we have handed over this Pembina Branch without any consid- eration, to this Company, who can, in ten years, derive an actual cash profit from it of $10,000,00a Now, that is a clear proposition and cannot be denied. There is no forfeiture whatever to the Oompanj if they i-efuse to run portions of the road. that will not pay expenses. They may stop running the road altogether if they choose, and there is no power inherent in the contract to compel them to run it — no jiower but a Court of Chancery, if that even is sufficient. Now, all I shall say u{X)n the clause granting 25,000,000 acres ot land is, that it is a very extraordinary thing. This provision was not in the Allan contract, it was not in the Mackenzie contract of 1874. Every clause in this contract betrays the work of an able and astute mind. I wonder if my hon. friend from Argenteuil (Mr. Abbott) — I do not blame him in a professional sense, he was working for his clients — but it seems to mo I can see th« mind of that hon. jjentleman in every clause of this contract. Those hon. gen- tlemen of the Syndicate are able and astute men and they got the First Minis- ter into their power. He knew he could not metit Parliament without Submitting Lis schcHies, after declaring at Hochelaga f 1 ''\ 24 r* that be had completed tlie contract firm, I when, ill point of fact, it was not com- pleted. The gentlemen of the Syndicate took in the situation tlicrou^jhly ; tliey knew that, to a certain extent, the I'^irst Minister was in their power. I was about to .say in connection with the 25,000,000 acres tliat all the lakes and water stretches in that country are to be excludefl from the acreages of these 25,000,000, That will not llo disputed. I appeal to the hon. member for Hamilton (Mr. Robertson) to look at tiiis contract and see if all tlin lakes and rivers do not ' fall to the Syndicate and are excluded ; from their acrt age. Howistliat? Who J started this 1 Who suggested this claim 1 | It is not in the Allan contract ; there is nothing of the kind in the Act of 1874, and why should it be put down here ? [t : shows that the men representing the Syndicate were masters of the situation. I Therefore, I say, it is unfair to the coun- try when you allow these men to go in and select the choicest lands, and yet excludf* from the acreage all the Isikes and water stretches. Then we find that the Government is to give these peopU; the road-bed in full, I will pass on now to another clause : ] " The Company shall have the right, subjeofc to the approval of the Govervor-inGouncii, to lay out and locate the line of railitay here- by contracted for ai they may see fit, pre- serving the following terminal points, namely : from Selkirk to the junction of the western aectioB by way of the Yellow Head Pass." When we come to look at the Acts of 1872 and 1874 we have no snch provisions. The Company are authorized to deviate to the extent of five miles from the line of location. It is said to be subject to the approval of the (Jovernment, but the rasult will be that the Company may build a railroad wherever they choose without regard to the terminal points : ' The Company shall have the right, from time to time, to lay out, cocstruot, eqnip, main- tain and work branch lines of railway from i.ny point or points along their mainland of railn^ay, to any point or points within the territory of the Dominion. Provided always, that before c«mmencing any branch they shall first deposit a map and plan of such branch in the Depurt- went of Railways. And the Government shall grant to the Company the lands required for the road-bed of such branches, and for the stations, station grounds, buildings, workshops, yards, and other ap))urtcnance8 requisite for the efiacient eoustructi< n and working of such branches in so far as such lands are vested in tiie (joveramcnt,' Now, Mr, Chairman, have you with all your knowledge of the subject fully com- prehended the scope of this clause 1 Da lion. members on the other side know that this clause authorizes this C»mpany forever to build branch railways in that country without any limitation of time. I dwell strongly on this point because I consider it is a very s(!rious nuitter. I would prefer to see this contract defeate,tl and the Government remain in power; than to see the Government defeated and the contract ado^^tec'. Tt is not much of an object for gentlemen on this side ta occupy the benches on the other side of the House. But, Sir, this claupe un- deniably bears that construction that for one hundred years hence this Compary have the right to construct branch rail- wuys throughout that entire country — ■ larger than the Province from which I come by one-third^ — they have tha right to co; tract railways there forever without limitation. I sincerely submit to the House that this part of the contract should be altered and modified. This seem? to me to be a terrible power, but here it is, and I invite the attention of the lawyers of this House to that clause, and to say if it is not true that this Company may from time to time forever have power to construct branch lines of railways without coming to Parliament at all for a charter? The next clause reads as follows : " For twenty years from the date hereof, no line of railway saall be authorized by the Do- minion Parliament ;o be oonstructed south of the Canadian Pacific P.ailway from any point at or near the Canadian Pacihc Railway, except such line as sha'l run 80uth-wa«t, or to the westward of south-west, nor to within fifteeu. miles of Latitude 49. Aud in the estabiiskment of any new Province ill the North- West Terri- tories, provision shall be ma<)e for contiauing such prohibition after such eatablishaient until the expiration of the said period.'' Now, my hon. friend from Lambton has. dealt with this question, but n«t ex- haustively, I think. The Gove»nment asked this Parliament to suspend its functions, for 20 years, and to prohibit itself during that time from auth^riaing the construction cf any line of railway- touching the boundary line of the United States. Now, is not that a terrible ••«- temptation? The hands of Parliwnsni are tied for twenty yeam, so thai wm cannot give a charter to any company W go to the boundary line of the United States. The hon. member for Niagam 25 ought to think seriously of that. Ho must feel it is iiu oxtraordiriaiy power to give to a company. It is bartering away the legislative power of tkis country to this Company, which will have the right, whenever iind wherever they choos», to build a line to the boundary line ot the United States, and no individual nor company will have the right to get a charter to build a similar line. I call your attention to the section which auth- orises this Company to extend this line by purchase, to buy the Canada Central Railway and the Occidental Railway, which, witli all the other branches and the main line, shall then constitute the Pacific Railway, and have all the privileges and advantages which the Pacific Railway has under the terms of this contract. Tlie Syndicate will have the right of exemption from Customs duties ? This aecms to be an extraordinary provision which we do not find in the Act of 18724. How is it the Government yielded to this, when in Allan's contract there is no such conception? Does it not show that there is some ingenious and astute mind bfthind all this that make these suggestions, and that has an undue influence on the Government ? All the branch lines of i-ailway which this Company are author- ized to constrnct forever shall be exempt from taxation, as well as the main line foreA'er. That is a fair construction of this contrast. I call attention to the definition of what constitutes the Pacific Railway. That definition embraces all branches and stations; they all become portions of the Pacific Railway, and con- sequently are entitled to all the privileges of the railway. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD: Where do you find that 1 Sir ALBERT J. SMITH: In the 15th section, which reads as follows : " The Company maj lay out, con&trHot, acquira, equip, maintaim and worl^ a continuous lina of railway, of the guage of four feet eigfit iiiid one-lialf inches ; which railway shall extend from the terminus of the Canada Central Rail- way near Lake Nipissiug, known as Callandtr Station, to Port Moody in the Province of Britiaii Columbia ; and also, a brancli lino of railway from some point on the ni*in line of railway to Fort William on Thunder Bay ; tnd also the existing brant-h line of railway from Selkirk in the Province o' Manitoba to Pembina in the said Province ; and also other hrauchcs to be located by the Company from time to time as provide I by the said contract ; the said branches to be of tiie guaje afori-said ; and the said ma'U li:e of railway, and the said braticli linos •)f railway, shall Im commencoil and com- pleteil a^ provided by the said contract ; avd together with such ot'.,; r branch lin'.-s as sha I bo hereaftnr con':ti luted by the said Company, and any extensions of tha said main line of raihv;iy that siia'l hereafter be constructt-d or acjuired by tlio Company, shall constitute the line -if railway hereinaftar called the Cauadiaa Pac:fiu Railway." I siiy that these branch lines of railway become a portion of the Pacific Railway and sliaro in all its privileges. If this- Company should purchase the Canada Central Rail way and the Occidental Rail- way, these two railv ays when incorporated will become aportiou of the Canada Pacific Raihvay, and thus the company will have the authority ot this Parliament to build, branch lines in Oi#ario and Quebec with- out referring to Parliament at all. That is a fair legal construction. These ex- tensions and acquisitions shall become a portion of the Pacific Railway, and the clause gives the Company authority to build branch lines from the Pacific Rail- way to any part of the Dominion. I have no doubt at all that this was the intention of these contracting parties, or else why is the clause inserted. It seems specially pi'ovided for that case : ' ' As respects the said railway, the seventb section of " The Consolidated Railway Act, 1879," relating to powers, >and the eighth section thereof, relating to plaos and surveys, shall be subject to the f llowing provisions : "a. The Company shall have the right to take, use and hold the beach and land below high water mark, in any stream, lake, navigab'o water, gulf or sea, in so far as the same shall be vested id the Crown and shall not be required by the Crown, to such extent as shad be re- (juired by the Company for its railway and other works, and as shall be exhibited by a map or plan th^ereof deposited in the otlice of the Minister of Rai'. vays. But the provisions of this sub-section shall not apply to any beach or land lying east of Lake Nipissing, except with the approval of the Governor-in Council," I would ask the First Minister, as a dis] tinguished lawyer, whether it is not clearly indicated that it was the intention of the contr.acting parties that whenever they should re(juiro the Central line of railway or the Occidental line they should hava the power to taka lands, without reference to this Parliament, in any portion of Quebec or Ontario. It says east of Lake Nipissing it was not to be done without, the authorit)' of the Government. I think tiiat is pkin, because th2 Government are 26 1 not liuikUag any r*ilway east of Nipissing unless it was intended these franchises, extensions, and privileges should apply to the w'dole line of railway; otherwise there is no necessity for that ))rovi8ion. The Minister of Railwayn, in the long and fdaborate speech which he made in open- ing the discussion, told us that the stand- ard of tlie Union P.ioihc, us at first con- structed, was the standard provided in the Allan contract. The hon. member for West Durham (Mr. Blake) brought him to book and it was found that tlie hon. gentleman was in error. The Allan con- tract was made in 1873, and the Union Pacific was first constructed in 1869, and between those two dates the road had undergone a vast improvement. My hon. friend from North ^jjctoria (Mr. H. Cameron), who is an able and distinguished lawyer, said, and he appeared lo speak lor the Government ou that occasion, for they vociferously cheered him, that the clause meant the Union Pacific as it was in Octobei', 1874. Then we have a letter from the Syndicate, but I say if the hon. gentleman from Victoria (Mr. Cameron) is correct, the sooner tiiis letter iu returned to them the better, for I will show that it comprises the standard to 1873, and that it does not provide the same ])rotec- tion to the country with regard to the character of the r"" A as did the Allan contract. The lettei' says : " With reference to the objecf.ioni that have l)een raised to the dspcription in the third clauau of the Pacifi J Railway contract of the approxi- mate standard named in that clause, we beg to stat«< that wlien the contract was framed it was not considered that there was any di6ForeQ«e of importance between the time of the original conatruution of the Union Pacifie Railway aad the date of the Allan contract. We are, there- fore, prepared to agree on behalf ef the Syn- dicate, tlm* ' he description of the staiudard shall be on. ned a« applying to th'! Union Paeific Railway as it was in February, 1873." Now, we were told ovv the authority of the Government that it meant the stand- ard of 1874, and that this standard was as good as that provided in the Allan con- tract. This letter shows how hard it was to draw anything out of these gentlemen of thv. Syndicate. They now send this letter to heal up the difficulty, but eTen now they have not gone the wljole hog, so to speak ; they do not cover tite ground of objection at all. Tho letter goes ou 4o t»ji " The obligation of the Company will vir- tually be the same as if that date were sub- st) luted in the clause in question fur the words ' as the 8am,e was when first constructed.' We have no hesitation in aj^reeiug to this con- struction, as it is obvious that our interest will lea 1 us to construct the railway in a sub- stantial ma ner with steel rails and cfiicionfe equipment, and our reason for desiring that a standard should be named wm not in any degree to enable us to construct an inferior railway, but merely to prohibit us from captious or ar- bitrary criticism." Now, Sir, what was the standard provided in the contract with Sir Hugh Allan : " That the railway shall be constructed and equipped according to speciticatious to be here- after agreed upon between the Government and the Company, an 1 their materials of, and man- ner in which the several works forming part thereof shall be constructed, and the mode of working the railway, or any part thereof, in- cluding the deaoriptioa and capacity of the locomotive engines and other rolling-stook for working it shall be such as may hereafter be agreed upon between the Government and the Company." Now, hon. gentlemen will see how the public interests are protected in that con- tract ; but in the {present scheme we have not a word about the locomotives, or the rolling-stock, or the tolls, which, as I shall presently sh»w, are in themselves a very serious consiueration. T^e clause in the Allan contract procejeis : " Provided always that if the Government and the Company should be unable to agree as to the details of any of the matters in this clause mentioned, the same shall be from tiae to tim* referred to the detsrniuation of three competent engiaeers, one of who:n shall hi chojen by the Government, one by the Company, and a third by sueh two eugiueer(> ; and the exp^iuaes of said refereBcas shall be defrayed by the Com- pany. And ift order to establish an approxi- mate standard, whor^jby such matters may be regulated, the Uuiou Pacific Railway of the United 8tatea hereby selected and fixed as such standdrrd, but in a general way only, and not with respect to any minor details iu its oon- struetien or working which may be found to be sbjectienaMe, nor with respect to alignment to grades, which shall be as favorable as the nature of the country will permit of without undue expsnditure." Now, we are told that self-interest will dictat* to the Syndicate that they should build a firso-class road, but the same principle applied in the contract with Sir Hugh Allan, and why were these pro- visions impoied in the one case and not in the other. The Minister of Railways 8 lys the two contmcts were identical in t'lis respect, but the Allan contract aayg 27 saya not. This shall not he the standai-d. The language used is : " In a general way only, and not in respect of any minor details aa to the working, nor in respect to the grades, which shall l)e as favorable as the condition of the country will allow." Why do not these gentlemen, if they want to assimilate that condition with tliat of the Allan contract, which the Government were under the impression was dillVsrent from what it is — for the Minister of Rail- ways says that the same standard provided for in the Allan was provided for in the present contract? Another question of some importance is with regard to the ten per cent. The whole country is interested in this matter, and especially the North- West. The contract ])rovides tliat the Government in Council shall not interfere with the tolls or tariff, until the Company realize 10 per cent on the expenditure connected with the construction of the road. What does that apply to 1 To the capital actually expended, or to the amount leceived from the Government by the Syndicate in the construcf<«d portions of the road 1 It is also provided that the limit to the reduction of tolls by the Par- liament of Canada, provided for by the Act of 1879, respecting tolls, is hereby extended, so that the reductions shall not secure less than 10 per cent, per annum 2)rofit on the capital actually expended in the construction of the railway. I appeal to hon. members whether that does not mean 10 per cent, on the actual cost of the road. The Government have esti- mated this road will cost §80,000,000 or more. This provision then, will autlioir- ke the Company to derive 10 ])er cent, profit from the whole amount expended on that road, if they do not 8i)end on it $1, and they most assuredly will not ex- j>end one dollar. They thus get some 157,000,000 in cash, besides all "on tke land. On that amount they will rooeive 10 per cent., the amount expended by the Government. Before the Government Cin interfere or arrange the tariff, the Company must receive 10 per cent, in- terest on the $80,000,C00, or 18,0:0,60 J a year. It does seem hard that the Government should give $80,000,tX)0 or more to construct the road, hand it over to the Syndicate, and then that Syndicate should realize 10 per cent, on it, when, in point of fact, they never expendey that, if the Government will relinquish this contract, my hon. friends would consent to their remaining in power without any hesitat on. Mr. BLAKE and several hon. mem- bers : Hear, hear. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH: I would cheerfully see the Government continue in power if thereby this conti'act could be defeated. We would enter into a compact that the Government should remain in their ]>laces if they would relieve the country from this calamity threatened by this contract. I implore hon. members 0.1 the Ministerial side to consider this bargain as a commercial transactioa, and divwst themselves of all party feeling in judging of its character. SIR. A., or. SIs^TTHL. Jannarij 14th, ISSl. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH: If we wanted any evidence as to the justness and fairness of the motion now before us, I think that evidence is supplied by the last s})eaker. I feel curious to know how that hon. gentleman will vote €n this (juestion. I have the opinion, though he will vote in direct oi)position to his .speech bi.t it proves correctly, Mr. Speaker, how reasonable this proposition is now before / w 'i'l » 28 i the House if, and we 1""! a lijjlit to expect j that when i\w MinisU'r ot Railways rose to 8j)eak eu this question, lie would have given us some reason wliy tliis motion should not Ix; gnintcd. It scorns to be his duty and tJttiuf,' for him in his relation to this triinsnction that he, in a plain pro- position like this world simply ask that time be given to consider a proposal Uiado by a number of gentlemen in this country, well known for their respectability, for their financial ability, and for every element that is necessary to qualify them to construct this great PaeiUc Railway. Why not have an opportunity to consider this question. The hon. member for Cardwell says that this is a mere political trick ! What authority has he for that 1 He has no right to insult the gentlemen who sijined thatoffer. They are men who could fairly compare with him ; men who have a recognized position iu this country for character, responsibility and wealth. How dare he stand up in this House and make such an attack as that upon tkem ? Mr. Speaker, the Minister of lliiilways in- stead of turning his attention to this ques- tion, as wiis his duty, made a speech which was unworthy of him, or any gentleman occupying his position. He must not suppose he is going to delude the lieople of this country by the course he is adopting. Instead of oflering reasons for this, he has thought fit to make a personal attack upon me, but I am not sorry lie has done tliat. He has done that once or twice behind my back, l)ut T am before him now, and will square accounts with him. He has said that in 1873 I was false to my duty, and to the Cfoverument of which I was a member ; that I deserted them — that I had been a supporter of that Administra- tion. The hon. gentleman knows Tery w*ll that that statement is not founded in truth. He knows very well — and it is necessary for me to refer to it — that when I firs' entered this Parliament I came from my Province having fought the battle of Oonfederation there. I am not ashamed of the course I took there. I spent a great deal of my time, and went through MO less than three elections in connection with that question, and stood firm in my allegiance in what 1 considered to be my country and my i)eople. I resisted. Sir, that measure, but finally it was carried. I feltitwasmy duty to submit to to act as who had gave the a fair and the decree of the people who had deter- mined in favor of that [jropositiou. I niad(v up my mind to otter nocajjtioua opi)Ositiou of any kind to the fair workiiis^ of that measure, and 't was followed by the great benefits that iti promoters said it would be, npl)ody would rejoice more than my- self. When I came to this Parliament I came a free and independent member. I w.'is no* allied to any party. I found the political parties mix«d anil confused. L found gf ntlemen who had been Liberals* favoiiiblM to the gcheme of Confederation, and parties so mixed that there was nothing for me Imt an Indej)endent member ojiposed Confederation. I Government of the day reasonable support so far as I thought they were right. I was not in their con- fidence ; I was not really a follow 3V of that Government ; 1 did not attend their caucuses. 1 had nothing to do with'their confidence iu any way but when any question came up before this House, I, a* an Independent member, being allieil to neither party, exercised my own judg- ment on all those questions and voted according to my convictions. This course I adopted and the hon. gentleman know* it well. Does he not know, in 187 L whfn the scheme of union with Britii-li Columbia, was under consideration here I •pposed it at every staye ] Sir CHxVRLES TUPPER : Thehoiv. gentleman need not take the trouble to admit that. In 1871 he was with them, but he was with us in 1872. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH : I hare so little confidence in — I was going to aay the hon. gentleman's veracity — that I am not willing to take this statement, be- cause the next hour he will be ready ta deny what he admits now. I intend ta read a portion of the speeeh which I made on that occasion in 1871. I was then just as much of a supporter of the hon. gentleman's Go\iernment as I was in 1872. Sir CHARLES TUPPER : No, no, Sir ALBERT J. SMITH : I came her. in 1867, and my course was perfectly consistent. I supported them when I thought they were right, and voted against them when I thought they were wrong, as in the British Columbia (juestion, and 29 as I di'l in 1872, when I votud for tlio jiropositiou which tlie hon. gtnitleiimn lias referred to. Here is what I said, in 187 1, and my attitude to the Governniont was jtrocisely the same then that it was before that : " Was the House ready to involve the coun- try in so large an iucroase of ilel)t 1 Tne debi W.18 alnady .?IOO,000,0(IO, and there were many burdens that would arise from the IntersolDiiial and «ther works. The Un on Act had provided for the extension of the Court systi-ni, and that liad only been delayed because of tlie detiiiieut state of the finances of the Dominion. Tlie cost of the railway could not be n:ini d, it might be much greater than the amount named, and yet coule (/lu; cmittf the country would stind jdedged to complete it. He should oppose the measure, because it would impose burdens on the people that they were not able to be »r, and would involve the country in ruin and disaster." Now, Sir, what was my attitude on that senee, why did you not have tlie ninnliness to stand up in behalf ol one who was associated with you for many years, and nay that tlie charge was not true. That, Sir, would have been a ninrily and a generous act to do. ^ ow, let us see what is the evidence on the point. The hon. Minister of Kailwnys made these charges — 1 presume ho will not deny that he did— but if ho does I will produce the evidence. Now, I wo\ild ask the hon. gentleman if he ever made me an oilier ii the Cabinet of which he was a member. g* Sir CHARLES TUPPER: NeIR never. That was the trouble — that Wiis what you wanted and could not get. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH : I made a speech on this subject last Session ; I made it in tlie presence of the Minister- of Railways. I said he had made a certain statement, and I asked him, if he denied making it, to say so. Here is what I said I "But after his election, he denounced me, though we had been on friendly terms person- ally, so far aa I know, for thirty years. At least 1 never had any personal altercation with him, and we have been the represcntativiH of adjoining coiintiea for many years, his in Nova Scotia and mine in New F'runswick. I con- ducted my election honorably, and never indul- ged in expressions derogatory to him, i or in personalities of any kicd. V^ ell, o\ the day of the declaration in his own county, the hon. tht Minister of Railways made a violent attack on me, and abu-.ed uih fearfully, reprciieuting me as fake to the country, as one who had no in- terest in it, but who seemed desirous of de- stroying its liest interetts ; and not s.itistied with tha*-, when the battle had l)een fought, and he miglit i avo been supposed content, ho attended a Uieeting in my eouiity lit Vonctfin, being accoinpnnieil by the hon. Finance Miu- ister, and the hon. member for King's, N. B., (Mr. Domville), being piuseatat that entkusi- astic demonstrittion ; when he thought tit to denoHn(emo, in the heart of my own county. He told my ci nstitueuts that I was au oflice- seeker, and i'lwa5g had bien ; that I had knr.cked at the door if his Government iov office. If that is Lot true, he can rite and to.-- rect me." Did the hon. gentleman rise and correct me '( Sir CHARLES TUPPER : I will rise and correct you presently. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH : I am not at all alarmed. I think I understand the hon. gentleman. T guy that this state- ment was not true and I ask him if thu fact that he kept liis seat on that occasion was not an admis^on that it was not truo. Sir CHARLES TUPPER: No, no. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH : I would ask, Sir, if that is the course which an hon. gentleman should take. I would ask you, Mr. Speaker and the members of this Hou.se if such conduct can be justified by the House or the country. I say that the very fact that the hon. gentlenmn did not answer on that occasion is an admis- sion that my statement was true. I said further when I referred to thia subject last Session : "He added, that h's Government had re- fused me office, which had they given me; would have placed me on the Government «id« instead < f the Opposition. The hon. member for Cumberland must have known theie was no foundation in truth for such a statement, and he had a witness beside him. the hon. the Finance Ministi^r, who also knew it wis false anil baseUss. The hon. t^e Firt-t MlViister, to do him justice, I beli* vc would t&y that I never asked for I ffice ; tut ho waa kind enough to offer n.e the Litutenant-Governori'hip of my own Province, as did alto the hon. the Minister of llailways himself." Now, Sir, I rc^peat the statement I then made that the hon. member for Cumber- land did oti'er me a seat in the Cabinet in 1873, and pressed me to take it. He knows I declined it. The hon. gentle- man further otltred me the Governorship of Nova Scotia, and he ottered me the Governorship of New Brunswick. His liist act as a member of that Cabinet was- a very kind ofier to me of the Governor- ship of my native Province. Besides, I hacl another ofier from a member of the Government of 1673. I affirm these facts to be true. I have before stated, in niy place, these facts in the presence of that hon. gentleman without contradiction. Now, then, it does .seem to me hard that he should make this attack upon me when there is no evidence whatever in suppoit of it, and when his own colleague, the hon. the Finsince Minister himself 31 oonfcradictod and Ht&tcA diHtinctly, IftHt SoshIoii, thiit I had never bewi an oftice- seekor. Tlio lion, gentlenmn Btattnl that, in 1872, wlu'ii I run my election, I inti- mated that, but having stated on the huatinga that I would Hui)port the thtsn (irovernment I would not have been suc- «east'ul. Sir CHARLES TUPPER : I beg the Hon. gertleuian's pardon ; I never made such a Htatetnent. Sir ALBERT J. SMLTFI: I under- stood him to Hity I made the declaration om tho huHtingH. I have run thirteen electiona successfully, and [ think I lan run anotlier if the hon. gontlemofi opposite would be kind enough to give us a chance. Sir CriARLRS TUPPER : I do not thiok you could. Sir ALDERT J. SMITH : I would like to challenge the hon. geiitlennui. Ho thought I coulil not tho last time. He 3xhausted all his resources and they were unavailing. I would like to have the opportunity of running my county again, and 1 think many more moriihers would like that opportunity. When there is so much difl'eience of o[)iniou in the country, in regard to this Syndicate, it seems to be a lit and proper time to have a dissolution. If we go to the country and are defeated, we will quietly submit and be satistieti, but the Government dare not give us a dis-solution ; they know that the people are entirely o[)posed to this Syndicate. The hon. gentleman has failed to answ(!r any of the objections I made, last night, to the present scheme. Ho has stated that this contract was made in accordiince with and under the authority of the Act of 1874. Now, that seems to me to be a reckless statement, unfounded in fact and in law. I challenge the hon. gentleman to put hia linger upon a single clause of the Act of 187-1 that runs eoincidcntly with any clau.se of the contract. He stated that the Statute of 1874 authorized a grant of $10,000 a mile, amounting in all to $30,000,000. Does this contract contine tho amount to be given to the Syndicate, to $30,000,000! Does the Act of 1874 authorize the Company to go to the Nurth-West Territory and select tho clioicest lands in word of that kind. that region 1 Not a The Contract of 1874 •requires tliat the land should be taken in Ontario, wherever it may be found along the line of tho railway, along the j^ortU shore of Lake Superior. Rut wh .t, un- der tho Act of 1874, doe.H the Ooiiq)any do 'vhen they cross the bouiulary of Bri- tish ('ohnnl)ia? Do they come back to the fertile belt 1 No ; they tak(! the poi-« tious of the land in liritish Columbin^ which were worth nothing comparatively, wherever they could Hiid thoiw, and they took a small portion which was allotted in the prairie section pre" cisely as they took it in Ontario and IJritish (Jolumbia. Then with regard to tho land and money, is thero any authority for that in the Act of 1874 % None whatever. It is directly contrary to the law. Where is tho provision authorizing the cxemjition from Custo:nH duty? Where is the [>rovisii>n in the law which exempted the land from taxation { It is not there. Tlu! Hugh Allan con. tract provides for none of these. Wliere does tho Act of 1874 confer upon the company power perjietually to build railways in that countiy whenever they like { Now, is that not a most ter:iblo power to give to this Oompiiiyf With; out any limitation of time, for 100 or L'OO years they shall have th(! right in the whole of that country, larger than Ontario and Quebec together, forever to construct railway lines and branches to the main line, without reference to this Parliament. Now, do hon. gentlemen really compre- hend ih'-i enormity of this [)roposition ] Why, the legislative power of this country is tied up. If we feel that they are build- ing branches prejudiclul to the iuterest.s of this country the arm of this Parliamei t is [taralyzed to stop it. I .stated the other night that the revenue derivable from the Pembina Branch would go to these gentlemen at once. Last yenr I stated it was $()0,000, and that has not been denied. I stated that ))y the increased population of thia country the business of that line would so increase that tho yearly net revenue wouM not be less than ^ 1 00,000 or $ 1 .^0,000. In the course of 10 years that comes to $1,500,000 actual cash paid into the company, besides tho revenue derived from tluj prairie sections. If I understood the Minister of Railways aright, he told us that the first lOO miles westward from Selkirk could be built and equipped for .$700,000, Now, let us see 33 wlmt iK'iicfit lluiW) g(!iitlriiif'ii will get from that niKlcr tliJH affrccrncht. When iliiu f^cliL'iiK. is coiiHiiiiiiiialfil 1 iinilorstaml about 80 iniieH of that mud will hti rminhfd iiih) rrady for tralllc. Thc^HCfjcntle- Jiifii will conn! to tli« Fiiiaiiw! Minister and Bay, " W« want, as wo have u ri<{ht to liave under tho contract, thci jiosHession and the uhc of this KK) uiilcH of railway, and we want to pay you, as the contraet |in)\ideH w(! should pay you, the coHt of this railway, whieh is ^700,(tOO. Here istht'cluMpic ;" and llie Finance Minister acceptH the checjue. WJiile the hon. Finance Minister acoejttH tho che(|Ue, the gentleman turns to him a;id says, "Now J liiiv(! paid you forthiit road, 1 want a million dollars from you." How m that I Why, under this contract there are .?10,()()() a mile for this 100 miles of railway which the (jJovcrnment. hav(! Ijuilt, and they are entitled to a million of money, lor which he gets Lis cheque, ])uls it into his pocket, and thus has ^.'500,000, hcbides getting the road. So luiioh with regaid to tho money. This agent then will say, "1 want a grant of one and a quarter niilliuus acres of land." What is that worth ( If it is worth $.'< an acre, theie are $1,500, 000 worth of land, besides $300,000 cash, making $4,800,000 that the,s(i g(ro])osilion of which the hon. mi'mVier for Halton (Mr. Mc- Dougall) expressed himsi'lf in favor, and which the hon. niemVier who preceded me also practically su))ported, and allow us time t» cnnsider this cpiestion further. We want t') see what this offer is. If w« can pave 810,000,000, $15,000,000 or $20,000,000 by delay, surely the hon. g(!ntlemen who would sustain the propo- sition would be rewarded by the grati- tude of the i)eople. Sir CHARLES TUPPER : I rise for the purpo.se of stating — Sir RICHARD J. CARTWRIGHT : I rise to a point of order. The hon. gentleman has spoken already. 33 8ir (JUARLKH T(TPPKR : T rise; to mak« a porsoaivl Hxpliiifitioii. It' I am not to \hi porinitti'd to iimkti a ptTHorml (!xpliiMiitii)ii, I will tiiko iiiiutlior nunins of nnHweriii;; tlie Hpeoch wluoli has jtist boon delivered Ity the hon. nicinixir for W'l^st- moreliiud (Sir Alborfc J. .Smith.) Tiiat lion. gontlciniMi will undcr.stiuul it i.s not in hia ])owcir or that of any otlior lion, mnnilxsr to jirovont my takinjj tiio o)ipor- tunity I now dosiro to take, to niako an explanation — Sir RICHARD J. CARTWRTfiHT : T riso to a point of onliu. The lion, gentlonum has already spoken, ll'j niado a groa.s pornonal attack on tho hon. raom- ber for Wtistmort'land, to which that hon. gentleman cpiickly and properly replied. I will not deprivo tho hon. gentleman of making a pnrely personal explanation, and if he choo.seH to eonfino himself to that, I have no objection to make, hut he has no right to proceed to make; his other speech. Mr. PLlTMi5: 1 move the adjourn- ment of tho dehat(f. Sir RTOriARD J. CAKTWRKIHT : 1 have th(.' floor. Sir CHARLES TUl'PF-R : I had the floor, and tin; hon. ge itleman rose to a })oint of order. Mr. MACKENZIE: The hon. gentle- man cantiot po.ssibly have the floor, for he h:is >ilrea ly spoken. «ir CHARLES TUPPER : I had no intention when I ro.ie to deal with any other than the personal (piestion rai.sed between the hon. member for Westmore- lanortanco to nui, however, to warrant by losing tho position in tho debate that I tlio>ight it was necessary I shoulil ocoupy. I gave no assent, how- ever, to any Htaterating against the Canadian Pacific Railway, aiid which was supported by the member for !3othwell,— that it was unwi.se to pht.ce in th« uncontrolhid Government $30,000,000 anil .^)0,000,()()() acres. How does the member for Westmoreland reconcile that with his present course } He says he was oflfered a Gover- norship. It is true that I did inti- mate to the hon. gentleman that the present Minister of Finance had stated he believed that the member for Westmoreland would be an acceptiible Gov(!rnor to the peophs of New Brunswick; and reported after having had ordf^ra from my colleagues to coaimunicate with them, that it was not a Governorship he/Vantcd but a seat in the Cabinet. I ask him, will he venture to deny, that when I discussed with him the question of his appointment of Lieutenant-Governor of New Bnnswick, I «aid it would be a groat deal iKjtter for Tilley or Mitchell to take th« position I 31 Sir ALHKllT .1. .SMITH: A Who- j lutely untnu'. Fir ]mn>(l to ilitny that, ho iH prfiiai-ed to dvny Hiiytliiii^. , Hir ALMKHT .). HMfTIl : Ahso lutely untnic. Sir (JMAKLKH TlIl'l'KK: ll.i Wi.s diametrinilly ojiprj-si'il t » (lio (.luvt'i'iiiiii'iit of tlifi voting for ami Hii>4tainiiijL; tlmt (lovornuiont in niatioii to tliat vny qu(!Htiun, un a iiioit vital and iinpoitiuit point — that In- Hhoidd liuvf the power wanted ov«t on the land and iiioiiiy ajipropriated for tlio mil way wit loiil. being obligod to ask Par'iainciit year l>y yoar for anllioiity. 1 would •^ivv tlio hon. gentlunian nioio facts. Hi' sayw thin was an iiwuin pii>i">!'i. that it was moiiBlrous to involve this country in such a dr.fiulful liulnlity, Vit, wlmt did he do? ilii went Imi-k to his pfopl(>, mid has not and daro not doiiy, betansn the journals will furnish the proof, to ask them to do— do what f To eondfiiin tlio Uovernnient, as it was S?oing to ruin Canada Ity that ins'ini' policy < Nn ; hf anked to ho sent luu.-k ti> austaii tli<> Government coiuniittcd to that mtv policy. Sir AUIJRKT .1. SMITH : Not triu-. Sir CHARLEH TI'PPEU : Does the hon. gentleman d(!iiy that he stiili-d that if he was returned to I'arliaiiienl, ii\'U'v five years' expeiieiuc, lie Ix lievcil the interests of tlie country, and especially in the Maritir.,;^ Province-', I'eipiired fclml lie should hup;' I't the (io\crmiieiit ot Sir John A ;i oiionald and not the Opposi- tion — tliii' was to :ni])port; the < !overn ment that to-night he ile<;lares were com- nutted to an ins:ini', dreadful projt>et,, which is going to ruin Cauada. 1 will now give the hon. goutlonian th'! ojiinion of his colleague with whom he --iit, (A).v-«- do8, during 1872 in this Hou.-.e, and who has passed this brilliant i-ijlogium \\\)0]\ the late Ministcn- of Marine and Kisheiies. He says of the inciaber for \\'e.^t luorelmd that he had covered liiinself with infamy unspeakable for a consideration. A \of(; wad proposed in thi-' Mouse -in (act w:is proposed by the Governinent of Sir .)')lm A. Macdonald-- and the uioinbor for VVeHtmoreland, for what ruiwm h« hai* got to explain to the House and oiuintry, votoil side by side with tho right hon. leader of the (toverniin-nl. The mnmbor for Westmoreland wiis then held up to piiMic olilo the saino of you. SirCHAHLKSTI'lM'KIl: That i» cpiile true, hut I was not looking for a ( loNornorship. Sir ALKKUT .1. SMITH : Is that true < Sir OHAHI.KS TUIM'Kli : Tlio mem- ber for (lloucester also Hai. Sir ALUKRT J. SMIIH : The Gover- norship did not come. Sir CHAHLKS Tri'PEH: Ifc was not the (jo\ernoishi(i the hon. gentleman wanted. It is ( New Hrunswick, I had no doubt tlie matiiiried bujond iloiiht fi-ont tliu 'hoii. >()mll<)iiiati nm' from IiIh f)wn HtiiUMin'ntH, tliit what ri»' jloHiroil wiiH tilt) position licld in tint ('alanot \>y Mr, MiUihf^ll or Mr. Tilloy, nnd an llio (iovorniiKMit t'tilt tliat «'ithi!riif tlu»HO mmtlc- in«m poNsoHHcd a ^rraloriimouiit of iihilit^ than thn hon. ^(tMinHiiiiiTi aiiil was iiioro cntithid to thi; ]i(mitiori, wo loultl not, in thd pul)lio intcr»»«tH, ii«l< oillicr of thoni to make way for tho hon. inn. jijentleina* '"' always he treateir, wi'l 1 hi«vu !\% opportunity to roply 1 Sir «;irARLEH TlIPVKii : I hav« no obji'ction in the world. ITo fs(wpe4 that petition, lot by jjoing info court, a« an honest man would liivo done, and ehaUeiiging hisaecMisers to bring th( pnxif, but lie escaped it by putting lip the w(l, but the de- cision came too lain and this ho uscnped, for, in my judgun-ut, he wouhl net othw- wiso be sitting her»« to-day. Sir ALiJERT J. SMITH: Your judgment is not wovth anything, in my opinion. Hir CHARI.es TUPPPiR : I hkve answertiii the questions tho hon. gentlo- niaii asked me, and, in t." candor, I am prepared here and everywhim to leave the question as to how fur i '-.o teii)ptation« hero to-night. Sir^ ALB ERT J. SMITI f : The hon. gentleman, true to tlio interosld of his own naJuiT, hivs indulged in that which, I Hi\y, characteri/.(« hiin, and which Jia« lowered and degraded hitn below any public man in Canada (cries of O I O'^. O !). Yes (O ! () !) that is his character- istic, and it \a known, perhaps not t>a much in Ontario as in the Provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. When- (;ver anything is said there that is so ex- travagant that it cannot be believed, it is nothing but "a Tuppeiism." That is the kinil of re[)utatiou the hon. gentlcmai% has down in that region, but the hoiu gentleman lias not dcmied my stat<.>ment. i said that he him.stable to the ]>eo]>ie. Will that hon. gentleman deny that lie })reased the (ioveniorsliip of Now Bruns- wick on me, and when I rofusird to tako the Qovernor.siiip of New Brunswick, hn thou offered me the Governorshi[y)f Nova Scotia, and said he vvould take the Governorship of New Brunswick himself? Will the hon. gentleman deny that I should like to know] Ho says that, after our interview iu St. John, ho referred to his c/>ll('ag;ie3, and tild them that 1 would not take a Governor H!ii[), and that what I ■Wtiitoublic advertisement ; the Minister of FiiuuK* being specially charged t'> provide tin; funds wherewith to iuet!t the liability incurred. Uut in this artnient in the Gov- iirnment has lieen coni[»elled to make its contribution to thlts, nut«, wire, timbcsr, and all niai(U'ial for hridgos to be us( *l in the original -construction of the railway and braiicli(?.s forming part of the road, thereby con- tributing his Sl,0tK»,0l)0 or more to this work. Then, Sir, we iHUiie to the Minis ter of Agii' ulture, who is .harged with I le work of prinnotiug caiigralion to tlit; North -West, and who has be*'ii credited by the Minist-i- of Hail- Wiiys ivnd Canals with a stroke of genius in his nianase nent. He has omitted in this contract to inako an arrangement by which emigrants going to that country would be conveyed at fair and reasonable rates, leaving the gentle- men of the Syndicata masters of the situ- ation. Should they deem it more desir- able to settle first their own large areas of lands south of the boundary or in the North-West, by discriminating against the Government in settling their lauds, they have tliQ power to do so. T len. Sir, we find, contrary to precedent in 'lealing with American ti'anscontinental lines, no pro- vision has been madt for the carriage of n;ails, either, free or at reasonable late, leaving that an open question to bn ar- ranged with the Power to arrange for this as well as the postal service of the country. This may. Sir, meet the case in dealing with ordinary railway lines built by private capital. But in a work of thia kind, involving at least hundreds of mil- lions of the people's money, the whole of which may be now or may soon become tlie j>roperty of a foreign compahy, some provision should have been made for these services. Then, Sir, section 26 of the contract provides : "The Company shall have power and autho- . ty to orect and maiutain douks, dockyardB, wharves, Blips and piers at any point aa or in connection with the said (Janadia' 'li'lo Rail- way, and at nil the termini theiv i ,;v.'ig»bl8 wa'er, for the convenicuoe and a , '<. (Ation of vessels and elevators ; ani ai' - t af:' lu're iiud work elevators, and to anquirt, <- 'i .old, '•barter, work and run, steam and oth' . .ssels for cargo and pass'ngr-it, upon ii.ivtgable Wi.ter, whieli tlie Cauadi<>ii IPaiatiu Railway may reach or coMntct with. " It seems to me that this may be turned to account by the gentlemen of the Syndicate, so as to ensure a monopoly of the carrying trade on some, at least of our inland waters; and in this way. Sir, tlie Minister of Marine, or the gentleman who succeeds him. may be able to contribu+e his quota to this work. It would bj \\ell, I think, Sir, for some gesitlemen who are interested ,11 the carrying trade by water to look I ^k,4m^*' 39 carefully into this piovLsioii and estimate its value for all time to come, if they arreii, sterile, rooky country, uninhabited anduninhabit- ablo for aught we know. We are told, Sir, that it is absolutely necessary to build this road in order to perpetuate British institutions on this continent. Well, Sir, I, and those whom I have the honor to represent, yirairie section. Hon. members who take that view entirely forgot the terms of the contract according to which the Company is bound to build the eastern and western 43 .sections as well as tlie prairie BectioiiH, tmlesa the Governmont find it to be in the interest of the Dominion that those sections should not be proceeded with. If this offor should be ncoepted it will be this Government, theiefovt% that will have the decision in this respect. But it is said that the acceptance of this otl'er would entail a. change of Gu^'ernniont, tiiat it was intended only to enable the Opposi- tion to get into power and then withdraw the eastern section. According to .this \iew it seems that we have to |>ay the difference of ]U'ice between tKese two offers in order to allow ttie present incumbents of the Treasury Menches to retain the possession of [)owor. Leaving out of the (lueslion tlie im- munities an^' giving us substantial proofs of 'their warm-hearted kindness. A i regards these two offers, while I do not unconditionally support the second, I say that the advantages in its favor are so great and so obvious, that, to adopt to the present case a remark of the hon, membtsr for Halton ( Mr. McDougall) with regard to the Intercolonial, we are about to throw millions of money into the sW^amp.s and muskegs of the North-West. As I said before, I am not in favor of either otler, and I shall not refer at length to the objections to the contract for the reason that they have been dealt upon at such length by other hon. gentlemen. 1 may say briefly, however, and for tho purpose of justifying the vote which I purposa giving, that I object : (1) To the monopoly given to the Company under no real restrictions as to tho composition or character of the cor|)oration ; (2) to the t'urther monopoly to build branch lines tothe exclusion of others; (3) to the right to locate the line where the Company wishes; (l) to materials being exempted from duty ; (o) to tho right of the Company to select lands ; (6) to the gi-ant of land for ■stations free from taxation ; (7) to the ;)xtinguishment of Indian title by the iiovernment; (8) to the exemption from ./axation ; (9) to the Government building the line fi-om Yale to Kamloops ; and (10) to there being no right of ]ire-emption by Government. With regard to tho selec- tion of the lands by the Syndicate it is very clear that it will be to their interest oo select the best lands in the North- West, . lud I might illustrate the effect of land 44 graiits to ••orpoiiitioiiH by h casw which took pluw in mv own Proviiu'e not long aeech Mr. Blake delivered two days before, but that he proceeded to attack AEr. Blake and to pour torrents of vituperation upon him, until the great majority of the meeting, who were determined to see fair play, comjielled him to abandon that line of argument ami to m ike some effort to deal I with the very important ()uestion for the party i consideration of which they had been in- that vited to attend tiiat moetin". Mr. WHITE (Caidwell): Will the hon. gentleman m3ntion the naine of one Conservative who made that statement t« him ] Mr. ANGLIN : Mr. Speaker, I stand before this House, known to it for thir- given for the consideration of the new | toen years, and I make that statement offer, to say that the terms we are now on my personal honor ami reracity, aul 46 ' ,? ! not hiirinfj tlio lilx-rty to viso tlio nam*' of the gentlcnwn witli wliom I lmi)p«n«!fl to inuet, I am not prfpivred to \ iolatt! nil the conrtowics of j>rivHt<* lifo. Tlic lion, gentlt itiiui >»f'lioveH niH hiniHtIf ; lie knows he believoH irie ; he knows eviT3'lK)(ly in this Honse believes me : luni everyone who reiulH the n port in one or two of the Montreal jiaperH will seetlint tlu^y sustain that statement. It was out of place to disouKS a lar^e number of the topics discusp'jd by the hon. Minister of Hail ways, unless we nie to give him the oiedit of merely striviiij^- to oceupy tlie time of the House. While claiiuing to deal with the (pieHtion before the House, he chose to launch out into a general discussion, and I therefore feel it my dtiiy to noticei cuisorily, at any rate, a few of the remarks he made. He l»egan by tell- ing us that the course of this debate remiiuied him of a story of a enntroversy between two ministers whose audience was a deaf and dumb man. Did he mean to convey the iinpressi m thi+t his audience in this cMse are deiif and dumb, aiul that they are willing to do the bi(ls think we are more astute than we really nre. We have endeavored to analyse it and criticise it. But, not- withstanding all that, I aasure the hon. Minister of Railways, and all the hon. gentlenie'i opposite, that evfn at this moment I am not satisfied that we know thoroughly how objectionable this charter is. We have not succeeded yet in finding a single redeeming feature or a single clause which we can say should commend itself to the public or the majority of hon. members. The very fact that, within a few days, so imj»ortant a body as the Montreal Corn Kxchange has expressed an opinion upon the slibject, is in itself evidence that the pt^ople at large are not thoroughly acquainti'il with all its bearings. I, myself, am receiving every day letters from persons to whom I have sent copies of the contract, sometimes with my own comments on it, and I find that some of the most intelligent persons in our Province are not properly acquainted witli the character c»f the scheme. So it is not right to say, it is not in accordance with the facts, that the public are thoroughly informed and have had a fair opportunity to i)ronounce an opinion on this question; and let me add that it is still less in ac- cordance with the facts to say that, in so far as public opinion has been pronounced, it has not been so hostile to the measure as we on this side of the House had rea- son to expect. Hon. gentlemen opposite talk a great deal about our public meet- ings. They pretend to say that there is so : etliing very wrong because they were not allowed to reply at all our meetings. Take for instance, the meeting at Mon- treal. There the hon. member for West Durham (Mr. Blake) addres.sed a crowded audience and held their attention spell- 47 bound until aftM('Iy doHoribiriy; tlio outlines of this ohiirter, unci tlio tidi-cts it unist pro- diu'H if it W080 ratitiwi. Wiuit liiun would tliere liavo Ixien aftcT tliiib for tho lion. Minirtt'T of Railways to have aildrcKHi'd tlio name audienco, for wo know ho in alwayH aMe to occupy (ivo or six hoiiiH if ntHJOHsary, and we have soon this afternoon e\en, liow tho hon. j^ontlomau can occupy acoi.plfi I't hours without cmbHrrartMint'Ut, if ho wci'i' at Montroal, to havo followed tlie hon. ni(nnb(!r for West Durham, and mado a spoocli. 'i'iiat lion, ifcnllcman muHt'liasp r«'[>iii!d, and tln^y mi;{lit thus have oontinut'd tho ]L{ami'. JUit I think hon. )>!Uiaiu ; all the tinii; that would be thus occupied. Those pre- sont at till' first nicetin^j; in .Montreal coin- plainoil vi'y muoii indix>d <>t what tln\v HuffertH.1 from beinj^ crowded to;,'ether for BO man}' hom-s. Not a sjul who was in thought of getting out, all were willinj^ to remain and hear the exjilanatious of the hon. menilier for West Durham ; but human nature can only endure a certain amount of plensuro and p;iiii, and on that occasion the pleasure an 1 pain wcr« com- bined, btcaiiHO tho heat wiis very ;^r"at and a larg'^ number of people wen.' surt'<;r- ing fiom boin^ crowded tojj;ether, and it •would therefore havo been absurd to ex- pect thoae people to remain to ln-ai' the MiniBt«}r of Railways. That hon. gentle- man called another meeting,' which was not so largely attended ; a great numlter of persons went to hear him, and a great many went, hoping to hear a satisfattory reply to the statements of the liou. mem- ber for West Durham ; but even some of the Minister's wannest frienlic indignation -and the hon. the Minister of Railways has alone spoken of indignation — has been manifested through the country ; wherever the (.eoplo have expressed disapproval of the terms of this (contract, they have been moved to such indignation and led to e.xprcss such dis- approval because we have misstated tho terms of the contract. Those two decla- rations of the hon. JSlinister are directly contradictory. If tho people were well informoil, as he has alleged, we could not have misled them; if we liave misled them to the t!xtent alleged, then further time is reipiired by them to obtain information, and it is the duty of hon. gentlemen q\)- posite to [tlace themselves in communica- tion with the public, not merely by speeches delivered in this Housh!, but by appearing before their constituents face to face, with this contract in their hands, and so co interact the mischief we have tloue. Such a cliargo as that of de- liberately misstating tho terms of the con- tract and delibenitely seeking to mislead the public on this subject, would '>e a very .serious charge, indeed, if made by any other hon. gentlen'an, or oven when made by the hon. tho Minister of Railways, were it sustained by the slighest shiulow of evidence or proof. The hon. the Minister of Railways has asserted that we have misrepresented especially that por- tion of the charter which lelates to the selection of lamls in the North-West. In his speech this afternoon he aaserted that the Syndicate or Company will have no 48 light to Rfth'ot l:iHi|N anywlu'i'p, oxoppt in fche Nortli VVoHt Twritory, htjyoiul tlio !)T of nort-li laUfciili'. H" littonviirilK ad mitted tint tiny A'ill have ii rij,'lit of nolectiou, Wut only wlicrn tlioy Imilil limiich riiilroHils which will ho of nirc benoHt to tho ( ixiiilry, atul hh tho Unv- fM'nirn'Ut will llicrc iilso ho cntitlHil to the akerimtf! Hi|uart' iiiilf blocks, tlu'Co:n|uuiy would huvp 110 siioh right of Kolectioii hh was iisHortod, Iff went on to nv^nc. thiit tho liit(H r()vt>rnnioiit, iiiiih'r thu Mills' 15111, proviivy hinds; and lu' asseitod that umh^r th<* provisidiis of tiiis hurj^ain, tho iuterosts of tlio country woro much hiittcr protoctf'd tiiun they wore under tho Mills' Bill. Wo arc not ohli<,'od to discuss tho merits or (hnnorits of tho Mills' Bill, and it would 1)0 a wasto of time to pay any particular iittontion to that jtart of tho hon. tjfMitlcMisn's statcnitsnt ; but I wish to jioint out,, bccauHO 1 have soon it as- serted clsi'whero with tho objt^ct of inis- lealinj; tlio puMic, that on this point wo are in error, that the contract gives to the Syndic tt(^ the right to select all the lands not within the •J4 niileH, to select where they p'ease, to lay outlines of railway where they j)leis(>, and ol)tain possession at once of aUornate lots of the 24 miles on n;ioh sido of the lines so laid out with out having built a single niih; of any one of the brandies. It is not provided in any ]>oition of tlie charier that bofore obtaining possession of tiiose aldirional lands t.hcy slnU be r.»quired to bqild the branch railways. Tliey are merely re(piir<'d to lay out a line wliere they ]»lease, to fyle a plan in the otfic(! of the dofiartment In-ri', and thereupon they ac()uire the right to take possession of the alternate blocks o( 21 luih'S on each .side of the line so laid out. I do not believe the Minister of Riihvays wouhl attempt before an int(dlig;'nt audience to repc^at the alh'gation In; has made in this House, provided that sonii' one was on the plat- form beside him iiaving in his hand a copy of the chaitf-r anpany are not satisfied with the char aeter of tho lands idong the line of rail ways, if in any of the,se there is a mate- rial jiortion unfit for Hettleineitt, thoj mnj go into tho Norlh-WoMt Territory and Hehnrt otlun- lany have coiiiplaiueil very much of not 'M 49 1 11 lory and liii! approval only, of tlio 111/ ri«a(l- if'vo it is t'ln ut no fjrciit vikI it. Wo vitli rospeot otlior of thf* ooiitrnct. II.Sprovo of the moiiHuro, a party coiiiiiiandiiig ho large a niiijority in this House should have eourted an expression of puhlio approval. They should them- Helves hav(( gone Ix-fore the people. They ■ should have lieen the (irst to sulmiit the contraet to the p(M)ple, and ask the p<'o- ple for their opinion thereon. Tlu^y should have said : " Hero is tlie bargain, the best ever made, and \\w b(!st that \a poHsible under the oireuiiistances. Its terniH are most ailvantageous. Accept it, for it is to your interest. We tak(» our stand upon it, and tell you it is a good Ixargain ; tliat if tie? road is to be built (and all parties are pledged to buihl it) this is tho best ))ossiV)le mode; of doin<' it. We have done all wo e nid and have not sacrificed your interests, or made the bargain in a corner, but openly and in the lii^ht of day. So soon as the neifotiatiouH were co uleted we laid them bfifore the public : ao maintained the dignity of I'ailianiint by consulting tho dignity and self-it'spect of the [leople by laying Ix^l'ore them all the facts, and ask- ing them to express tlu^ir approval in any way they pleased." I think they should have taken some such couree as that. In- stead of doing so, they carp at the action of hon. gentlemen on this side of ilie Hou.se, and assert that they end(iavored to excite public indignation in regard to the contract, and that their efforts have resulted in lamentable failure. We do not so regard it. We, on the contrary, are quito pleased with the results of our efforts so far. We think wci have to-day the moral sympathy of the great majority of the people. A dissolution has been talked of. I do not know that any of us have insisted on a dissolution, but if lion, gentlemen op|)osite will go to the people, we will gladly accord our support ti any motion to that effect. We will gladly meet them before the people of the country, and there, in what even they must admit is a constitutional mode, and without any insult to the dignity of Par- liament, we will ascertain the wishes of the people. If they choose to relegate us to obscui'ity, or decide that we .shall re- main on this side of the House, we shall bow respectfully to that decision, and of (;ourse lease oui' opposition to tliis extra- ordinary measuri*. Although we knnur the peoph; have siimetiine.-< been misluken, we have never lost our confidence iu their integrity, honesty and intjUigence. Wo have nevei' siiowii ;iny fear or apprehen- sion with regiird to them. We are of tiie people and witli tho |>cople, and by-andbye, i trir.'f., nay, \ am snre, when svo appear l)efore them at tin- |tollH, we shall find the peof>U) with us. For eight long years, the hoe. gentleinaii snvH, this (jui^stion has been bel'ure the (leople ; that there is nothint; iiovi-l in it — nothing extniordinary -nothing of which the peo- ple have not already expressed their en- tire approval. Tlie people have aever yet lieen asked to espn.'ss their approval or disapprtjval of the Pacific Itailwaj' scheme, in a tlirect way. One Parliament about to expire was asked by tin- hon. gentleman opposite to (diter into that most oiuuous bargain wiUi Ibitish Colum- bia, and a large majority assistcHl tliem in imposing its terms on Canachi. The elec- tions occurred .soon after, but tlu^ri- was then no time, chance or opiiortimity of getting rid of those term.s. Sir (-'HAULES TlJl'PKR : Does the hon. gentleman deny that his [tresent leader sttvUsd in this House that the con- tract i(uestion had been referred to the peo|»le and foully considered, and that the, peoj)le had decided in favor of it, and that we had received no maiuiato to re\er8e it — that it was not reversible by us I • Mr. ANGLIN : I do not rcmetnber that he uttered su( h words. Sir CHARLES TUPPKR: I can show he did from his apeecli. Mr. ANGLIN ; 1 1, does not matter whether he did or not for the purpose of this argument, and for this good and sufKcient reason — that f)efore we hud any chance of addrossing the people on this subject we were bcumd, fettered and man- achvl by the bargain, which had become part of the constitution of the country, had been embodied in a royal proclama- tion, and become a.s binding upon us as the British North America Act. under whicli Wj Hieet and make laws here. We could not set asid(i those terms if we would, and we would not, because we had too liigh a regard for tho faith and honor 50 of Caniula. Although we resisted by every iriean.s in our power the iui[>ositiou of tliose t( rin-^, niitl strove for tliiur iiioilitica- tiou iue<}'f<,t,ually, vo rec'o,i;;ni/.('il, in tlio _ nia-jmity of hotli Houses of I'arliainont, tlic riglit to hiiitl tlie country to even a disailvaiitageous bargain, hikI felt it onr duty to give elFect, so far as the circum- stances of the ciiuutry would permit, to an undcM'taking of which we still dis- ajJpi'oviHl. When the member for LamV)- ton wciit b«4'oie the country, lie had a railway policy, it is true, but the people did not, so far as I recollect, pai^s any decidiMl ojiinion on the policv of construct- ing a railway across th(> continent, which we were bound to do. He did very fully admit and recognize the "liability that •existed, stating very expi'cssly the mode an which he proposed to fultil the obli- ;gations of the country. That, I aduiit, "did meet with the .ipproval of the peo))le. But the quist'on as to whetiier the rail- j way should or should not be built within a very short time, was never .submitted to the people, for the very good reason | that lion. gentlem-'U opjiosite had put it | •out of the power of any j>ai'ty to reopen j that question. This question has not j 'Iveen before the country for eight years or ' seight weeks even. Trur, the; hiea of; building a Canadian Pacilie Ibiilway has j been beibre it for eight years and vai-ious 1 projects have been mooted^ but this is I ■entirely, essentially ditl'erent from any project; ever before suljuiitted. It is of! stich a strange, remarkable characte.", that until the pijiers were lai:1 on the Table, not even leading meinbers of the House could form anything like an accurate idea of the scope, purjjort, and meaning of this contnict. When the meudxr for LamV>f()n complainc-d of this lately, the leader of the Government asserted that; Le and other members knew wcill why we were to assemble here in rarliauu-nt, and •■asset ted or insinuated bciidrs, that the member for Lambton and many on the same side knew pretty wi-U what the terms of this bargain were. The member for Lambton denied that on his own parf, and we all denied it on our yavt. Not cue of us, coidd form anyth'ng liko an aix'i'vjite opinioTi of its tem-s. If there is a pessimist among us I do not think he •fcould imaguie the terms were so bad as tJiey now aj-pear. We W(ire starth'd ■when we found among other things that tUe Government had undertaken to com- mence anfl couqdete the 90 miles from Yale to Port Moody. Wo never had tho faintest susfticiou that the Government had undertaken an obligation of that ki;id, which is an entirely new proposal. Now, the lion. Minister of llailways quotes the Speech from the Throne to sliow that the statement of tho hon. member for Lambton is an incorrect statement. Well, the Governor- General's s[ieech ])romised us, among other things, that the contract and the [(apers rtdating to it would be laid before Parliament. Where are those papers ! Not a single paper Ins been laid on the Table of tho House, respecting the contract, save the contract itself and the appendix, which is merely the Act of incorjwration. We asked for those papers ; we asked for all the information on the matter to which I'arliament is entitled, and we were told that we were asking something unreasonable, something unprecedented, and, had the hon. Minister of llailways been speaking, he wo\dd have added u'apatiiotic. No British Ministiy would dare to submit a (]uestion of this kind to the Imperial Parliament without bringing down every scrap of jiaper relating to it that could be fouiul anywhere, without furnishing all information possibh; on tho suliject. We saw with regard to the Washington Tretiiy how complete was the information we received. We were furnished, not merely with the Tieaty itself, but with the jjrotocols. This was done because it was known that the infor- mation must 1)0 laid l)efore the Im|ieiial Parliament. Wo saw what took place from day to day, and imw whi'ii we con- trast wh&t is done in this I'arl lament with what is done in tli.it, w<; are forced to the conclusion, that if only the Canadian Parliament had been consulted on that rpu'stion we would hav^e I'cceived oiilv tho Treaty, and would never have learned that free trade in lumber and coal had been ofiered us and rejected by the h'ader of this ({overnnn^nt. I did not blame tho hon. gentleman then, nor do I lilame him now, for that refusa', but f state simply that [ i)elieve that information would have be(M siq)pressed. We have not^ to-d;iy tho information we ought to luue. We i^re told that this is the best bargiun that it was pf.s-ibie ' j make ; but, Sir, we have a right to see and judge for our- 51 aelves ; the people have a right to see and ' judge for themselves, iii a matter of this kind. The Ministry is adopting a wrong course, which, relying on — I shall not «ay a subservient — but a very faithful body of followers, refuses to give to tlds Parliament and the people the information to whicli they ai'o entitled, and insists on forcing upon tiiis country terms and conditions of which the people disa])prove on the plea that they are the best that can be obtained. Turning from that point, the hon. Minister made a most extraordinary attack on the hon. member ■ for Westmoreland. The hon. Minister. of Ilaiiways must always attack some- body or his .speeclies woidd lie ratlu r 8I)irilles.i, If he excels in anything, it is in the power of invective and attack, and he made a most wanton attack tiiis aff.er- noon on tliG hon member for Westmore- land. That hon. gentleman is quite able to defend himself, and I shall not under- take to defend Jiim ; but let mo hear testimony to the foct which has come witlun my own knowledge and observa- tion, and 1 call upon the hon. Finance Minister to bear testimony to this fact also, thiit the ciiarge against tlie hon. member for Westmoreland, that he was ever influence' i by a desire to obtain office, is untrue — I was about to say a false and scandalous accusation. 1 knew that imii. geutlenian when he sat witii me in tiie LochI L(^gislaturc, and was a. colleai/ue of i.hehoii. Finance Minister. I knew him years afterwards, when lu! and I were colleagues, ami I kuew him to be always entin ly beyond tlie reach of any suspicion of hankering afrer otlice. He never cared to hold office, and when on one occasioir ho was induced to accei)t office, he resigned within a shor\ time, btvause he disapproved of tlie |)idicy of the (jrc)vernment. Afterwards, when he became a member of the Government, in which T was his colleague, we had tlie greatest possible difficulty in forcing odice upon his acceptance. Th(!re is no inan in the Province of New Brunswick, iind I hold there must be very few in the Province of Nova Scotiii, who would belie^l that there is the sliglitcst founda- tion for so monstrous and atrocious a charge as that made against the hon. member f;)r Westmoi-eland. I leave the hon. meml)er to answer, as far as he thinks nece.s.sary, the long attack made upon him. Let me say a few words with regard to the Act of 187-1^, wjiich the hon. Minister of Railways asserts authorized him and his colleagues to go to London to open negotiations for the making of a contract, and finally to make such a contract ns that laid on the Table. 20,0i)(),000 acres land per mils, or ,')0,000.0Q0 in all, and $ 10,000,000 permile, or about.$27,000,000 cash in all, besides the interest on such other sum as may be agreed, that interest to run for '20 years, are the terms of the Act. • Will hon. gentlemen assume that, acre for acre, the .')0,000,00() acres of laud are as valuaide as the 25,000,000 tho Syndicate are to get ! Any one who knows the character of the country, and who has read the Act of 1874, which reads : " Lands along the line of railway of fair average character," will see at once that the -50,000,000 acres so lying ara actually of less value than the 2r),OOO,'O0O, of which 1L000,000 are close to the railway and 14,000,000 are to be selected wherever tho contractors choose to go into the fertile belt and select it. Taking the land of a fair average (|uality, along the while line of railway from the boundary of Ontario to the Pacific Ocean, through the Reeky Mountains and every- where, the .50,000,000 acres could not be worth as much as the 25,000,000 acres wiiich tlio l^yndicate would get under the terms of this contract, 11,0^0.000 of which are to lie in the fertile belts close to the line of radwav, ami 1 [.000.000 to l)e selected where the Syndicate chooses. Will any I'easouable miin say that lands lying chise to the railway are not worth .more than lands twenty or twc^nty tive miles oil" I The Act of 1874 says iamls of " fair average ipiality," not "fairly fit for settlement." Now, " f^iir averago qualify," in tho cominon-seiise interjwrata- tion of' the term, must be held to mean ft fair average of the lands of the country throu'.;;h which tlie road runs. It cannot possibly be held to nuviu whiit laud tho Syndicate pleases to select. But in that resjiect the contract does not agree with the terms of the Act, and the Act does not authorize the ( lovernmeut to entfr into any sui;h arrangements. Under tho Act of 1874, tho contractors becmnie possessed of these 50,000,00.) of acres of land — they did not become absolute owners of it. Tiiey were not exempted from local taxation. Jt was provided 52 that the Government should 'dispose of two-thirds ot tlie laud and hand the pro- ceeds over to the coir.pauy, while only one-third of the lands was at the disposal of the company ; the ob\ ions reason for that arrangement being the desire to pre vent a land monopoly in the North-WeSt. When the Allan contract was under con- sideration, one of the strongest objections to it uiged by this side of the House was that it tended to the creation of a land monopoly, and when the hon. member for Lambtou introduced his Bill he took good care thut such a monopoly should be avoided by means of the provision to which I have referred. Tl»e Act of 1874 and the present contract dirt'er in respect to another salient j...iut. In the Act of 1874 it was distiitcily provided that from any sum to be paid to the con- tractoi's, under the terms of any contract, waste be deducted tlie whole cost of the surveys and of any portion of tlie railway constructed as a Government work. Under this contract we give the Syndicate the land, and we give them tiie absolute! ownei-ship of a portion of the road, the building of which will cost the coun- try, at the lowest estimate, ,*28,000,()UO. The hon. Minister of Railways has asserted deliberately to-day, as he rashly asserted on a previous occasion, that the making of this contract was authorized and justified by tiie Act of 1874. J shall not allude further to that Act, but I thougiit it proper to point out those two or three very rcunark.ible points which show that if the present contract has aay connection with the Act of 1874 it is a violation of tliat Act. Ft the con- tract had been drawn up witliin tlie limits provided by that Act it wouUl o ly have been necessary to la}' it on tlie Tal)le, and within 30 days it would have become ipno favto the law of the country. I do not think it is necessary to follow the hon. gentleman very closely in what he said in regard to +ho fact, that wlien the late Government came into othce and found a deficit st iring them in the face, notwithstanding tlie suqdu.ses which had been rolling up for a number of year.«, they fouad it iipcfhsary to impose fresh taxation upon the people, which taxation, if the volume of business had remained as large,' as in previous years, would have yielded a revenue of $;;,(J0<).00(). The decrease in the business of the country, though 80 often and emphatically attribut- ed by the hon. gentlemen to the mis- government and mismanagement of the- late Administration, was regarded by every reasonable man as being due simply to the general depression of business, in which we unavoidably jiarticipated. Though we do technically speak of the imposition of so much taxation as being so much of an additional burden cast upon the peojile, we all know that increase in the rate of taxation does not always produce a corresponding increase of revenue. When the alteration of the Tariff did not yield the estimated increase of revenue, the only resource left to the Government of the day, ojiposed as they were to increasing the burdens of the [icople, was to endeuvoi by strict economy to diminish the expenditure. Tiie Minis- ter of Railways has over and over again asseittjd that we were extravagant, that the conirollable expentliture inpreased to a point far beyond what it should have reached had the Government been economicallv adinini.steied. He has again and again asserted that the di'ticits of those years amounted to -f 7,000,0(iO, and though the statemenc has been repeatedly dis- proved in the House and out of it, as well as by the press, he could reiterate it again and doubtless he will continue to do so. He seems quite incapable of being per- suailed that his ftatements may be erron- eous, no matter how uiKjuestionable the proofs. The hon. gentleman reft.'rred to Ids economy in his own department in the matter of advertisiii;'. There is no doubt that economy may be prudently e.\ercised in this matter, i..ul that a great deal has been paid by various Govern- ments in this country for advertising wliicli might have been saved. But there may be such a thing as a false economy ; and the offer for the construction of the Canada Pacific Railway, which I under- stand was placed in the liands of the Gov- ernment to-day, bona Jide. as I believe it to be, shows that becau.se of his exercising a fal.se economy in neglecting to advertise for offers the country runs the lisk of losing $15,0(»0,00(). ^ We will have to discuss all these sulijects iigain. We have disjussed most of them very fr^iently, but it is a strange thing to find tlie lion, gentleman now stating, with regard tO' land in the North- West, that actual ex- perience has shown that the net products 53 of what ought to have been some of the best land thei;e, are but sixteen cents an Aore. Last year we had a different tale. Then the [)olicy and interests of tlie Gov- ernment required that they should en- hance the value of those lands as much as possible ; at all events represent them to be as valuable as any reasonable person would believe. But now it is tlieir in- terest and policy to represent that Lmd as ; having as little value as possible, and when they set dowuthe value of the lands at $1 an acre that they have put the out- side value upon them ; although in an- other breath the Minister of Railways tells us (hat even now, if you gave him the right of selection, he could select 1,700,000 jicree of land worth at least $5 an acre. It has been said that some of the gentlemen Mb'y compose the Syndicate are quite as astute as even the hon. the Min- ister of Kail ways, quite as good judges of the value of tha lands ; and if there are but 1,700,000 acres of laud worth §5 an acre, there cannot be the slightest doubt that this Syndicate will manage to get possession of every acre, and that will be $8,500,000. Hon. gentlemen attempt to ■defeml the policy of exempting from tax- ation the materials to be imported for the use of the railway, the steel rails which, under the operation of our present Tariff, would become subject to duty in 1872, the bolts, plates, spikes, etc., amounting in the whole to about >^ ' 00,000, as the lion, gentleman says, ile says that if the Government built the road the«« things, together with every locomotive, every «pade and pick-axe' would all be imported free of duty. Now that is an extraordi- nary declaration from so prominimt an advocate of the National Policy. In the first place, were the Government to go on with the work the exemption from duty of those articles voidd inure to the benefit, not of contractors, but of the peof»le at large. Moreover, it has become the set- tled policy of the Government — I think it was first settled as the j)olicy of the country by the late Government— that when, iu any case, tenders are invited or receired for furnishing locomotives, cars and articles of that kind, in oi-der to institute a comparison between the ten- ders sent from al)road and those submitted by the people of Canada, the amount of the duty on the articles must be added to the tenders of the foreigners in order to ascertiiin whether they are higher or lower than thase of the people of Canada. Under Government control, then, every man in this country capable of producing any one of the articles required upon railroads, whether for con- struction or Cijuipment, had the protec- tion Oi the Tariff; but under the contract manufacturers in this country have no such ])rotection. The contractors have the absolute right to import from abroad, free of duty, all the articles named in the contract. Again, with regard to the tax- ation of land, while the Government had those lands they were exempt from taxation, and any benefit derivable from that exemption would accrue to the people qf the Dominion at large, not a few contractors. When the contractors hold the land, instead of being compelled to proceed to settle the land, as the leader of the Government boasted last year would be the case by the operation of local taxation, they are to be absolutely exempt for 20 yeai s to come, so that if they choose they may hold their lands idle while the Government proceed to settle up the alternate blocks, and thereby add largely to the market value o£ the lands held by the Company. The hon. Minister a-ssert- ed that many railroads iu the old Provinces are exempt from municipal t,axation, and has spoken [>articulurly of a road in which the hon. member for the county of St. John (Mr. Burpee) has a large interest. He says there is no taxation on that road according to a 8[)ec'al Statute. He is mistaken. He seems to imagine that the charter was obtained for that road by the active efforts of the member for the county of St. John. I think attempts were made to build some such road as i that before the member for the county of St. John took any part in it, and that the charter was already in existence for some time. Efforts were made by others to get up a company, and finally a company was formed, in which the hon. member for the county of St. John and other gentltmen took an active part. They proceeded to the work of building that road without receiving a single dollar of money from the Province of New Brunswick. They did receive aid in lumber lands, valuable i it may be, but still they could not be sold at that time for even $1 an acre. These lands were exempt from taxation for ten years, but the railroad itself was 54 never exempt from taxation. It was provided that the net receipts of the road were to be liable for taxation, pre- cisely as the income of private individuals. But supposing that road were exempt from taxation, supi)0sing the property of tifty other roads were exempt, all that would furnish no good reason why the people of Canada should bo called upon to exempt from taxation in this vast wilderness a company to whom we are to give money enough to build all the road they recpiire and a vast territory of lund beside. I do not cafe to follow the hon. Minister any further. The cpicstion really before the House ft the present moment is the motion of the hon. member for Shelburne (Mr. Robertson). We are told, and I believe, that a number of Canadian capi- talists, as respectable as any in tliis coun- try, as influential as any in this country, and all known to be above question men ot great wealth, have deliberately pro- posed to iindertalce the construction of this load upon terms vastly better for the country than those contained in the con- tract. We now ask that the House should pause until tha Government, who admit that they have received such a projwsal, bring that proposal down to this House, and until we have time to enquire into all that relates to it. It will not do, Mr. Speaker, to say that this is a niere trick, a mere sham, a mere dodge, for I have heard all of these terms applied to it. The men who came forward and put their names to that document and declared themselves ready to deposit a large amount of money with the Government as secu- rity for the carrying out of the work, and as a pledge of their goorl faith, are not men who could be induced to take part in a political conspiracy even if any such thing had been conceived on this side of the House. B^or my own part, I heard first of this intention to create a new Syndicate, when I was on my way from St. John to Montreal. When I reached Ottawa I found that very little was known on th« subject by any one I spoke to except in the way of rumors, in the news- papers, to which they attached very little importance indeed. The movement hag been spontaneous on the part of those capitalists, some of whom are, I believe, fxiends, jjolitically, of the gentlemen on the other side of the House. It is a pro- posal which the country will think de- serves most respectful, careful, and atten- tive consideration on the part of the Government of this country, and the members of this House. 1'ho Govern- ment of the Dominion .should, for their own sake, if they are not thoroughly infatuated, take care that no further sus- picion be attached to them by reason of their refusing time for consideration of this proi)0'-al. They have Sir, proceeded throughout this whole business in a way — let me tell them in all frankness and plainly, and I trust not offensively — finch as to create the most intense suspicion on the part of the people of this country. Everywhere you turn men ask, why it is- that th(! Government have become parties to such a contract as this, and why it ia that they have endeavored to force it oii the country in this extraordinary way ; and I, for my own pari 'ail to find any answer. Some hint, hi me saj', to hon, gentlemen, for I want to be frank with them, at most corrupt motives on their part. I cannot believe that those sus- picions are well founded, and yet, I can- not deny that suspicion exists, nor can any rea.sonable, sensible man deny that there are grounds for suspicion. A few short months ago gentlemen on the other side, told us that it was the deliberate policy of the Government to build this road as a Government work. They entered into elaborate calculations to prove to us and the people, of this country, that the road could be built as a Government work, and l)aid for out of the proceeds of the lands in the North-West, leaving a large surplus, of money at the end of ten years, or money due, and still leave a vast territory to be disposed of. They then asserted that the policy which they jjroposed to adopt was a wise and sound policy^ whereas they say now that this bargain is- the best ever presented to the country, while we say it is the worst. They then told usi that the other scheme was the- best that could be devised. Scarcely had Parliament been prorogued when we found that three of those hon. gentlemen had gone to London. 13efore they left the Premier announced in a ]iic-nic speech that they had received proposals from companies for the con- struction of this road ; that the proposals v.ere of the most favorable character, so favorable that if they were accepted the people would be relieved of all liability 55 md atten- j)art of and the Govern- for their lorouglily ther sus- reason of ration of proceeded ia a way cness and ;ly — Such picion on country, why it is- ae parties why it is. rce it on iry way ; find any , to hon. luk with on their hose sus- it, I can- r can any lat there ew short ther side l)olicy road as a jred into ■0 us and the road v'ork, and i lands in B surplus, years, or territory asserted iposed to I policy^ largain is- ocuntry, hey then was the xely had hen we le hon. London, inounced received the con- n'oposals liaracter, pted th© liability iiiid r<>sjionsihility, and there would be ail end to incurring any furlher dobfc, an end to any additional taxation. But thf^y , d^d not cuurtiilur th(.iHe iiroposuls sufiiciently ' favoi-ablu. At all events it was thought deHiral)le tu transfer the nogotiitioas to London, when much luoro could be done, and they went t > London ; and Mr. S|)i!ak(ir, we heard from timototimo from liondon that tlioy were greatly successful; but altout the timfi they left we had the leading papers of Loudon, alniost without exception, some of them seriou.s biisint^ss papers tliat never trouble themselves about jmrty, condemning the course of our Minisior.s in iiondun, one of tliem describing their course as a mixture of mystery and fuss. They contrived, Mr. Speaker, somehow or other, while in London, to repel every capitalist who aj)proaclifd tlieiu, to create suspicions amongst all who had any l)usiness with them, and to excite the ])rofound dislike and suspicion of the leading papers of tiie metropolis, an^l these are a great ))Ower in tiie world, and p irticularly in the mon-iy world. But when the Premier reached Jlochelaga, he announced that he h[ul tiiadt; a bargain — a contract firm, though lie had no po \er to make suck a contract — and that the terms of that contract were such that even Mr. Mackenzie himself would be com))elled when they were made known to admit in his i)lace in Parliament that they were infinitely better than he had ever expected or attempted to ol»tain. Well, Sir, time passed on and it leaked out by-and-bye that a tirui contract was not made, or anything like a contract, but an agi'eemeut which had to be completed in this country, and we were all willing to wait until the terms of the contract were tinally arranged It became known that the terms of the contract wtre settled and we were assured that tiiey would be made known as soon as they were submitted to the Goveruor- in-Council and approved of. But about as soon as the pul)lic expected such ap- proval would be given and the terms made known to t!ie c luntry, we found somehow O" otl'.er that the dignity of Parliament B ood in the way of any information being made public. Tiio hon. gentleuKHi delude themselves greatly if they imagine that the [iisople of this cou itry can be hood- winked by any plei tliat the dignity of ParliaiHent stands between them and thf-ir- right to kiuiw the terms that, their refire- santalives hav<^ made on their behalf. The dignity of Parliament is nob to be preserved, maintained or promoted by secrecy of that kind. The tlignity of Parliament, Mr.Sj)caker, is be.st maintained by keeping the majority of the nienii)er3- of this House in perfect sympathy with the people of this country in adopting such a policy openly and frankly as the^ public can approve of. But secrtscy is utterl}' abhorrent to the people of (Janada, and, Sir, the very f ict that this Govern- ment did maintain imch profound secrecy with regard to tho terms of tlie conti-act was in itself sulKcient to create, and it did create, suspicion and distrust amongst all classes of the ]>eople of this country. While the Goveriunent would not let us know all the terms, somehow they con- tri\'ed to let us know any terms that seemed to be favorable — any that the people would naturally be expected to approve of. They told us as soon as i*arliaiuent met that when it became known that an arrangement was made with a comjiany to build this road, a great load of care was raised from theshouhlers of all the i^eoiile, that tiioy were ri;li(>veJ from a feeling that was weighing them down and distressing them, although a tew months liefore the hon. gentlemea told the people that this road could be built without costing them a single dollar.. It was asserted broadcast that it was of the utmost value and importance that a limit should be placed to our expeuili- ture on the railway. I think the Fina.nce Minister was one of those who congratulated the people that at last a limit had been put to tUe expenditure to which the country was committed. And so one af*^^er the other, those gentle- men labored, not to give the public such information as 'they were entitled to rectiive, not to let the people kuow precisely what the terms of the bargaia were and await the j)ublic decision there- on, but such information, so conveyed and modified as to lull suspicion and create false hopes amongst the people, — to give the people not an accurate but an ab.solutely euoneous and false idea of what the terms of the bargain were. -Now Sir, on coming down to Parliament, what j do we find? Still the same secrecy, the same determination to withhold informa- 56 \ I tlon. No longer is the dignity of Parlia- ment to be respected, no longer aic we to be the omnipotent l)ody that wo were represented to be br^tore we met hero, because we are denied the information to which we are entitled, which ought to have been laid on the Tabic of the Hous<^ ■without its being asked for. Then look at the time we were called together, just a few days before OhristniiiH. If there was necessity for such a hurry, why not have called us together a mouth or six weeks earlier, so as, at all events, to give to the world at large the appearance of a desire on the part of the Goveiniiient to have a calm cousidenition of this important question, iust(^ad tf calling us a few days before Christmas, and then threatening us with a refusal to allow us to go honu; during the holidays, if wo did not swallow those resolutions without delay. They altered subsequently that determination, becaus' they found their 8iij)porters unwilling to go to extreme lengths on that occasion, and an arrangenient; was made which, though a modiMcation of the first intention, nece.«.s:irily •'^hut out members from the Maritime Proviiices from Parliament for a day vor two on the reopening of the House. Tlie course taken by the Government strengthened the feeling of the public that there la something below the surface in this case which will not bear the light, iiiid when they refuse to consider an otl'er, such as that which is believed to have been submitted to them, they must know how strong public suspicion will grow, and must be prepared to defy public indignation. 'J'lie publif, we are told, are the very worst tribunal to whicii a ((uestion of this kind can itossibiy be submitted, yet our constitution knows of no othei- • tribunal of ultimate resort. While hou. gentlemen opposite could humbug the people and mislead them so far as to maki; them believe that the depression which prevailed was due to want of activity on the ])art of tlui (jovei-nmeiit, they courted and lauded the jieojile. But even then they did not dare to propound to the people this National Policy, which tho •j)eople are now said to sipprove. They did not dare to tell the people were about to tax their sugar I [ cents a pound for tho benefit of a few refiiuirs, the woollen goods of the working chisses to the extent of 50 or 60 per cent., the cheaper llannels and blankets 35 to 40 per cent. They did not ♦,hen, either, take the people into their confidence. When it suits the lion. Minister of Railways he talks of the in- telligence of the people, and when he hurls his threats and slanders at hon. gentlemen, he says he is appealing to the intelligence of the public. The Govern- ment of which he is a member, never dared to submit to the public their great National Policy. If they had, they would never have reached that side of the House. The refusal of the Government to bring down information asked for, must lead us to the conclusion ihat they have in their possession belter proposals than that which is submitted to us. If we had all the proposals before us, it is more than probal)le that we would find that there are some ju'obably better than that which is said to be the best. That there are men in Canada prepared to build this road on infinitely better terms than those in the Syndicate contract. We were told in the Hochelaga sjieech that a great ad- vantage of thiscontract, was that foreigners were included in the Syndicate, that Ger- niiins, French and Americans were to unite together in gathering that tide ot immigration which we have been long (>xpecting, and which has never yet begun to flow. Only a few years ago a provision was nsade in the Allan contract to ex- clude foreigiier,«. Then the Yank(!e was an abomination ; even his money was scarcely to be touched without pollution. Now the very stime gentlemen are pleased to tell us that one of the great advantages of this contract is the interesu of Ame- ricans in this concern. We we cold that the Suidicate was conqiosed of great capitalists who had money enough them- selves or control, of money enough to build five such railways. Well, when the names were ))ublished, the people began to wonder where tiie ricft men were. About tlie richest were Canadians. The mighty English House turned out to be a housfc of no very enormous resources. We do not know much about the German house or the American house. How far they are committed to this thing, what capital iiiey are to invest in it, we cannot learn from the contract. We know that none of the.se gentlemen, should the contract be ratified, need spend much money. Now, the Government ought to pause and think if they have any regard for their future 67 By did not nto their the hon. the in- wben he at hon. f to the CJovern- Br, never icir great reputation. If the Minister of Railways desires to see that la^her famous pedestal of his receive its statue at any time — if the Chief Minister really desires that liis statue shall not only be erected but receive that crown we have hen id of, thfsy should hesitate before they incur such a load of .suspicion, h^st tlieir names, instead of going down to i)osterity crowned with glory, will go down reeking with infamy. ♦Suspicion attaches to thein to-day. flet me say to hon. gentlemen on the other side — who, after all, must bear the respon- sibility — that though they may be willing to sacrifice their personal feelings and judgment on the slirine of party — as more than one has sorrowfully admivteil to the House he is compelled to do— now when new circumstances are presented, now when they see the interests of the country are unquestionably at stake ; when a bond Jidi'. olHu-, as we believe it is, is made when millions can be saved to the country and millions of acres of land preserved to it ; and all those odious, abominal)le, detestible monopolies pre- vented — tii«y should prefer the welfare of their country to the interests of party. None of tho-ie monoplies would be created under the offers of this new Company. Its members arr (Janadians, known to us for tlicir integrity, respectability, wealtii and intelligence — men whom to know is to respect and esteem — men incapable of lending themselves to any shabby device. It is the duty of hon. gentlemen opposite to consider seriously their responsibilities and considerations to the country under the present serious circumstances, if we considei/the character of the new Company, and that on the other side, the men to whom wo are to tnuisfer all those enor- mous grants and privileges — $?."), 000,000 cash and 25,000,000 acres of ahuost fer- tile lands, immense privileges, e.xemptions, monopolies lieyon 1 estimate as to their value — ^are, as the hon. the Premier de- scribed them : frenchmen, (jermans, Yankees and a few Canadians, who have not sliown any e-Ktraordinary patriotism in tlieir dealing with the North West — if we reflect on this and consider that if this be the good, bo)Ki fide, substantial, honest, true offer, we think it is, we may save all these enormous expenditures and pei'ilous exemptions with which we are threatened, and escape the still more drcadfvd mo- nopolies which impend over us, I can hardly believe yet, much as I have seen of the flexibility and tractibility of the large majority of the House — I will not believe till a vote forces nus to the pain- ful, sorrowful, harrowing conviction that those gentlemen can be so untrue to the interests of the country, so regardless of their own reputation and of every lionest conviction as to vote again.st the proposi- tion now before us. Janttary 36th, 18S1, (Sunbury) moved in Mr. BURPEE amendment : " That the reaolutioti be not now read a second time, but that it be resolved, that at j)re3'?nt the construction of the Canadian Pacific lliilway ia premature and would involve the country in an expanse beyond its reasonable capic ty, and would lead to the maintenance of too hiijh a rati? of taxation, wliila the p >8l;poue- ment of that part of the uadertaking till after the prairie section is Hnished, would enable it to be constructed at a much less cott and within a reasonable time." He said : The House has before it an offer to build the whole lin? for a grant of $25,000,000 and 25,000,000 acres of land with exemptions and concessions which are not contained in the second offer, f)Ut which are quite as objectionable as the extra amount of money and laud granted by the contract. If we are restricted to making a choice between tliose two offers, I much prefer the second, but in my opinion neither of them should be accepted. I hold that public tenders should have been invited for building the Toad ; and if this course had been followed and the change of policy on the part of the Government made known, much more favorable offer.s than the second one now before the House would have been sub- mitted. The policy in 1872 and 1874, as detailed in the Acts of tlio.se years, was to buiM the line by a private company, by means of land and money grants. The policy of the (government in 1879 was to build the road out of the jiroceeds of 100,000,000 acres of land set apart for that puqiose, and Imperial aid was to be invoked, I agreed with that policy with 68 8)1116 exceptions, wliich also apply to the policy of ISSO. It Hppt'uicci frmi tlie B,icoches of nu'iuliert: of the Govfniim'ut, lioth in i\w Houho and elsewhere, thut t'.ieir jioliey as regard the runte vvah to he B.)nie\vhiit ehiinged. Accnrdin;,' to the r.'.soliitioiiH of 187!), it was to h -a through route in liritish tenitniy. Tiie policy of 1880, judging by the speichea of lion. gentlemen op[io.site, was to take up the Sault route and appro|iiiate a sum for tlie building of that road, leaving the line along the north sliore of Lukt? Superior iintoiiehed for a time. This was under- stood to be the poliey of tiie ( ;o\ trnuient; and I so understand it, and it was 8o understood by the country. The people could not have expected tliut chiinge of policy would hav,; been made so sudd.;nly, and it is quite cut of rea- son to expect tjiat oH'ers could be made on a change of ])olicy of which the public knew nothing. 1 objected then to building the ]}ritish Columbia section ol the road until it Avas reijuired for commercial jjurjioaes, an;l until it coidd be built for less cost, and until money should accumulate from the sale of those lands which might go towards defray, ing the expense of construction. 1 object now to the resolutions before the House, because they will involve an increase of the debt and the retention of the heavy rateof taxation already imposed if it will not cause it to be increased. I object to them, also, because the contract binds, not only this Parliament to build tlie llailway, but future Parliaments to go on and construct the road uj)on the terms which this Parliament has determin- ed. I think we should iiostjtoae building the British Columbia tncl — and my resolu- tion is totliat effect — Ijecause it is not now required. It is not now needed, I contend, for commercial purposes According to the latest available returns, the population of British Columbia is 11,000. 1 know it is contended by some hon. members that the i)opulation is from 20,000 to 25,OoO ; nevertheless it is very small, not exceeding that of an ordinary county in other parts of the Dominion, We have, then, Britisli Columbia, with a small popul- ation at one end of the proposed railway ; we have GOO miles of very steiile country from Port Moody to Jasper Valley, through which it will be very difficult to build a railway. Prom Jasper Valley to Manitoba we have 800 or !M'0 ndles of good land, but unsettled ; in all, a stretch of i,.3(»0 or 1,100 miles of country unsettled between ibitish Colum- bia and Manitoba. I submit that until British Columbia has more jiopidation and the country between Manitoba ami Jasper Valley has a reasonable ann)unt of settlers, that the railway will not be re(iuired for conimei'cial pui'poses, and it will* be madness to build a ro;id at the jjresent time. I, moreover, object to the Dominion ])roceeding with tiie work, be- cause it will add largely to our debt and increase the rate of taxation, (-)ur debt in 1871, at the time liritish Columbia was admitled into the Dominion, was .^77,700,000. The debt at jiresent is, by the Public Accounts of 1880,.fl 1)0,000,000 in rou'id numbers gi'oss, and .Sl.T?, 000,000 net. 8o it has more than doubled during that time. Then our debt was $'22 pei' head ; now it is nearly !{i 40 per head, or almnst doul)le. Our population has in- creasetcr ncvuntj-oue, waitiiactei in onl r to cany out the sJiid agio nent and r Mohition; Ixit the cnactmentH th'T jin contain- ed have not l)"ou cfl'ec'uiil for that jmrpus •." ".\nd wli'-rcai the Le^^is'atur ; of this iiiCHent .So8»ion, in order to providn means tor meeting t.ift ohligatiiing of the Donii' i'U, the ra e of t.xutioii Ins Le n r.ii-'Cil much beyond that existing a'' trie date of the svid res ihitio:i ; and whei'e.as it is proper to nialco provision for the con truction of the sa d work ai rapidly as the tetent to give an opinion on the subject, one of their number — I refei- to the lion, member for Halton (Mr. Macdougall) — has given an opinion which we may fairly .s(!t against the views of other hon. gen tlemen on that side. He was a member of the (Jovernment wlien the negotiations with British Columbia began ; he was Minister of Public Works and nud special charge of those negotiations. He is a legal genth-man, and his had a good deal of parliamentary experience. Inas])eech which he delivered in the House List year he used these Woids ; " I will ask the indulgence of the House while 1 go back t > an earlier chapter in the history of this question than that which the hon. gentleman deta'led to u.s. I do so for the purpose of showing that there are reasons why m( mbers of this Houne ought not to concur ia the d ctrine set up, in some quarters, aa to the obligations of Canada toward-) British Columbia, respecting the Pacific Railway. I deny that there is any tviden(!e to supijort the statement thit we a;e under a trea'y obligation with Bri- tish Columbia to expend millions and inillons, whether vfi can afford it or not, to build tbia railway." This, yir, is an opinion from a gentleman not only well qualiiicd to give an opinion but who was and is now in full sympathy with hon. gentlemen opposite. I think I am justified in .saying, therefore, that it was not the intention of the parties who made the original contract that it should be regarded as one of the nature — which hon. gentlemen opposite say should be re- garded in the nature — of a treaty. We find that it was not the Dominion that sought to induce British Columbia to enter the Union, but it was the })eople of British Columbii who made tho first ad 60 m .J I f.i4 vance. Thoy coinimmcod tlio agitation in ] 18G7 — altouttliutiiiiH tli .t the noyotiatiouH wero going on lor tiui Union of the older ProvinooH — by nioium of liolding jmhlic meetings and puHHiug resolutions I siiall liere road a i>orlion of tlio/)rdor-in-('oun cil wliich WHH passed in answer to the up- plication from a ((ortion of llritisli Col- umbia to entt;r the Union : "That it appear* from these resolutions an'l the memorial of the (\.ininitt«e appointed at tlie public nifeting, whicli noompanies them, that the Jj"Ki»lative (Jouiicil of Bntisli (^oluui- bia, on ;tho 18th Maioh, 18(i7, uiumiuiously adopted ii resolut'ou r> questiuj; His Exoilloucy Oovernor Seymiur ' to take nieann-es without delay t' seouru the ainiis.sioii of British 0>il- umbi'i into the (.'auadiuii Confederacy ou fair and equitaile tonin.' " Then we find that a meeting was held in Cariboo, ol wliioli the following is an ac- count : " The people of Cariboo, the next most populou' iiiid influential portion of the colony, held ill Decendier a highly entliuaiaatic nicet- irg, and uiiai^imoualy passed resolutions in lavor of imm.'diately joining the Dominion of Canada." We were intormed that all the news|i!i]terH excejit one, live in number, 8up|)oi'ted Confedenitiun. Tlie hostile paper was in lavor of annexation to the United States : " The L^gishtive Conneil, the o«'y .Legisla- tive body ill the colonv, is m»de n\t of a in«jorit> consiatin:* of Heads of Depirtinents, (lold (Jom- niissioners. Magistrates and others subject to Govermiient influence, and cannot be relied upon to urge Conferlcration, as it ought to be at the pri'SRUt juncture, and, therefore, they appealed to Canada to help tlieni." Here are the terms "which the people of British Columbia asked for at the time : "1. Canada to become liable for the public debt of the Colony, cstiinatBd at .i!l,30'),00(»." . "2, Canada to provide for Federal otKcers And services. " 3. To grant a fixe I subsidy and per rnpitn subsidy suthiient to ensure the support of the Local (jJovernnient, in aiidition to tli; powers of taxation reservoil to Provincial Governments in the Briti.>ih North America Ac*;. " 4. Representation in the Senate and Com- mons of Canada. " 5. The construction of a trans-continental waggon road from Lake Superior to the head of navigation on the Lo.ver Fra«er, withiu two years after the time or admission. This is re- garded as an essential condition. " G. Popular rrpreseutative iuatitulions, in- auring responsible control over the Goveru- ineut. " Now, Sir, these are the only conditions that were made at that time. British Columbia did not ask for tlio railway at all. Subsequently, however, negotiations took place from tiuie to time between !5riti.sh Columbia and the ({overumonta of Cinada and Great Britain, the result of which was that delegates were — sent from British Columbia to Ottawa to nogotiato terms of admission into the Union. I will read from the terms what those delegates were authorized to oiler : "8. Inasmuch as no re.il Union can subsiit between this Colony and Canada without the spi.'udy establighment of communication acrosi UieHocky Mountains by coach road and railway, the Dominion shall, within three yours from the date of Union, construct and open for trattic Huch coach road f'om some point on the line of the Ma'n Trunk Road of this Colony to Fort (i.irry, of a stirailar c aracter to the aiid Main I'runk Road, and shall further engige to use all niBans in her power to c:)mpletB such railway communication at the earjiest i^raeticable date, md that the surveys to dttermine the proper line of such railway shall be at once commenced, and that a sum t>f not le«8 than SI, 000,000 shall bo expended in every year from and after three year-* from t le date of Union, in actually con- structing the initial sections of such railway froT. the sea-boird of British Columbia 1 1 con- •ect with the railway system of Canada." VU that British Columbia delegates asked Wiis an expenditure of $1,000,000 per innum, not on their own end of the road, but on the whole line. The hon. member for Halton (Mr. Macdougall) ■ explained thi^ matter in his speech that year so much better than I can do it myself, that I will take the liberty of reading a portion of his remarks on the suliject : "0.1 presenting thoee terms at Ottawa, and disouising them with the Cacadiaa (Govern- ment, au alteration of this clause was propnsed to the British t/olumhii delegates, with respect to the railway as follows : — " ' The t?-' M 61 oerncd, wo are not bound by the ternn of Union renpectiiig the rft'lway in tho atiiohite ion»e or to tho exieut which ioiiie lion, goiitlemen even on thin side of the Hdiuo unntend. it w«h a voluntary prop mal «il our own j a iimliim pactum at liwyers wou'd niy, bc>;aino we received no consideration fir it. It is true tie Bi'itii'h Ociluiiiliia ibdeKatos did not object to it. Thoy were very glad to find tliut the people of Cniiadiv were so anxious to ebtat)li>li rapid transit acrosi tho uoiitinetit. But tlml, like any otier ilu i«on of Pa'-lisiiient, was subject to mod fi lation. Tho condition that the resour- ces of the i; luiilry would unable the («)veni- niaiit to •seuuri! the compli-tion' of the work in ten years was aUvay , uuderRtood. Nay, mjire, it wai expre-sly btipulatrd. We iironiii.s it can show that we h;ivo the means, or th»t they are within our reach, and that it is to the interest of the c luntry to proieid with ths construction of the railway iu their I'rovince. As members of this House, and repreweiitativts of a portion of tho people of the Dominion hon. geiitli men from British Columbia have the right to pri-suiit th'rr case iu the bist wav thty can. But to say that the transactions of 1871 are in the nature of a treaty, that this Dominion o«n- aistj of separate iiart.s which have treaty o'l- ligitions one with another, and thiit we are bouud at all liBsard!", am!, under all cirjuni^tan- ces, whether w.e have the means or not, to can y out anything tli: iiad power to delay tho work for a year or more, and thafc iiltiiougli liy tho Carnarvon terms tho (Tov(irnment agreed to spend $'2, 000, 000 a yttar in British Columbia, yet they did nut intend to spend $1,000,(100, and, so far as he was concorneil, lie ignoreil those terms. Jn fact, by a return brought down to the House this Session, we find that th(.> expi'uditur(- in ISritish ( '(ilnmlua this year has not exceedeil .•^•10(),0()(). Bub the (jarii.irvon terms liiue Iwen referred to, and gentleiiii'u ojijiosito appsar to put a good chsil of »!mphasis on what are called the Carnarvon teiniH, substantiating their position by the hKsortion that tiie Do'' million is hound by tiiose terms to the immediate const ruction of the whole rood. The fact is, the C»»rjiarvon tci ms were not in tlie nature of an awartl, but only & recommendation of Lord Carnarvon for the ]iurpose of satisfying British Columbia. 'I'lie recommendation was that Canada should build the Vaiusouver Island rail- road, and expend .^2,0(;0,(K)0 per annum on tiie niainlaiid. The member for Lambton (Mr. M.ickenzie) on the part of th(! Government of tho day was, no doubt, very anxious to do all in hia power to satisfy British Coliimbi:i and carry out the arrangement niado with that colony. He may or may not' have gone too far in that direction. For my own part 1 think he did go too far. But he consented, subject to the? resolutions and Acts of Parliament prohibiting an increase of taxation for that |)uipose. He could not if he would bind the country contrary to the Acts of Parliament. But what does Mr. Mackenzi*; himscdf say al)out it ? I think he is more capable of interpreting his own int<^ntioiis and acts than gentle- men opposite. In a speech he made ia this House last Session, he said : "When we aasiuii'jd tho responsibility of accepting the proiiosals of fj .rd Carnarvon »•& j did so as a matti r of course, subject to the I reservation made iu the Ord.r-ia-Council and i to the eii'ictnients drpatly in existesice, ,'vnd the '. parliamentary resolutions prohibiting increased . taxation." I Parliament did not sanction the recom- ' ineiidation of Lord Carnarvon. In fact in one important particular it refused to 62 do no by rejocting th*> Hill for tlio contitnio- tion «»f tliii V^iincoMvcr IhIiiikI Hailwuy. I Hiil'init tliiit if ('iiiia.lit is not hound to l>iul(l tlio wlioU' roiid niiooiulitioiially iiiid 4it oiu't*, without ft.'iVn'ncc to tlio nito of taxation iiitj>oM'd, and if timt itoitioii of the voud situated in UritiMli (,'olunil)ia bo not n'(|uir(Ml for coniniciriul puipom-H at present and will not lio for many uiars to como ; il lluit poition of tlm i-oii.l can Ko niucli mow. elu-aply built uft<'r the oantcrn jportion of the rat'itic liailvviiy ban bucu liuilt to tlm liocky MountuiiiH, and tlio t!io piiiirio country ban a rciisonnblo nniovint of |io]iulation, and if it ih a fact that tlii« Mcclioii of tho road will bo un- prodiiftiM' and bin'thcnHiinio if l)nilt now, an is admitted, l>y j^trntlcincn o]>j)osit(\ what madness, what infatuation to jti-isist in doing so, when by doin>{so tiic present «>xorbitant rato of taxation must not only Vie kept u[) but increaswl. I havo alreiuly stated that the j,'roHS debt of the Doiu'iiion isSl'J'.t,tHM),0()0,tbenet(h'bl!?ir)7,n()(),nOO; if (he present contract is eai ried out it will add at least .S4(),()00,000 more to our obligations. I venture to preiiict that in ten yt :UM when the contract terminates, if indeed it does at that date, if tlie tioveru- meut do not ignore all i)\iblic works in other pai'ts of tlie Dominion, that our debt will reucli the (>normo'isamonntol from $2;3U,U(iO,00()to]^2 IO,00(),()UO. Theiaterest on that sum vill amount to about $12,()0(b(l()0 annufilly. A debt of such niaguitude will 1> r lieavily on tlu; lo- soui'ces of the j>eoplo of this coun- try. It must n.'ct'HHiirily bo detri mental to our best intei'e.>ur experience in Mani toba and tho North-West Territory, u]i to this time, will give ns some idea of tho expeiH'i to lio ox poet i I in that territory, for which purpose the nu-mlter from I'erth (Mr. Trow) gave a statement a few evenings ago of the expenses in- curred i'l fstabli>hing a fiovrnment in Manitoba and governing tho North- VVest, Mo stated that tho sum of 614,000,000 Inid been spent in Manitoba and the North-Wfst Territory sinccs we ac(juirf.Ml that connti-y, outside of the railway ex- penditure, and that wo received from ('ustomfi diu's, Excise, iind sales of lands less than $1,700,000. In this calculation tluTo are ifenia which would not justly be charg(;able to the establishniiuit of a now Province, but the following items will show how large an expenditoro has been made for the purpose of establishing the i^rovince of Manitoba and governing that territory : We have paid for Mounted Police, in all, !?l,'J.3r),(jO() ; for Emigration, si!,.') 12,000 ; Public Works, [biililings, A'c, 8l,-'^78,()0() ; Dominion L;\nd Hnrveys, 1,1S(),000; Imliau Treaties, .'?1,.'"':U,000 ; Military Expedition to Manitoli.i, ,'^7ot),00 ; Subsidy to Mani- toba, ^eOH.OOC ; Itolief of Settlers, .f J<;),000 ; making in all about l?0,OOO,OOO in round iiumlx'rs. We have received, in Customs, 81,;W1,0()0 ; Exci.se, $US,COO ; Sales of land,|1.3iJ,000; total •■? 1,0(37, 000. This shows the enormous cost likely to bo incurred by tho Dominion in the establishment of new Provinces in tho North-West. Of tho lands in t!ie North- West this contract which we are now asked to ratify gives to this Syndicato 2.5,000,000 acres of the best lands in tho fertile belt. The Hudson Bay Company has reserved for th(>mselves .50,000 acre.^ around forts, <^;c. Tho s.iiiie c:impany have five per cent, of the balance of the ! wiiole NoiihWest also reserved. There 63 3 II very snn- would rnly k't' UH of nt difli- itiiro within JO in Mani \'rrifoiy, uj) OHIO idea of ''I in that tlio m^mbor a Htateinont xpiMiHes in- 'I riiineiit iu S^orth-VVcHt;, ?14,(I0(),()()0 )a and the wo acquired railwny ox- I'ivcd from fs of lands 1 calciilatio!! I not justly hiiK^ii of a wiiii,' itonis ditiiro has 'staldiHliing 1 governing l)aid for i),UO{) ; for lie Works, Doininif^n 111 Treaties, idition to to Afani- Hcttlers, .?0,()OU,000 rei'fived, in ^lJ8,t00; i 1,0 07, 000. ost likely lion in the COM ill the t!io Xorth- i are now Syndicato .ads in tho ' Company ),000 acres company rice of the ;d. There lo arc lar^o roservos for Indiana, and alw I for scIiooIh; iIim wliolo of which will i uli.sorli tho 111 ijor [lortion of tim hmt lands of that coMiitiy. [ do think he would bo a very lecklesH man indeed llmt wnuld calculiito to pay olf our lir^ti liahilitii-s from Uio remiiiniiig portion of our lands in (hit territory. Additional railwjiys will liavo to 1k) eonstriicted for the pur poHH of developing that region of ooniitry. I'rovIiiecH will have to Ix! established us popiiliitjoii iiioreases, anil FiOi^iil iit have the other Provinces no claims on this Dominion 1 Is there not a stipulation in tlie resolution and Acts referred to that the road should not be built faster than the resources of the country will admit.without increasing tho rato of taxation. Has faith l)t!en kept with the older Provinces ill that res[)ect;'! JIat not our rato of taxation been (mormously increased! Have tln^ no right to complain? T think they have. While iniHioiis upon millions are expended, nay, S'lUamiired, in British (.Columbia and tho North \Ve-,t, on un- productive work'f, tho people of the Maiiti'iie Provinces are rei'used the smallent cons-easions in aid of much iKjedeij irapruvoments, and when tiny ask for necessary expenditures they are told that there are no funds. I contend that we .slioidd postpone the iuiilding of the Ibitish Coluiiibia .siction until the commercial iiecessitiei of the country deimind il, and our hnanoial position will wurrant the expenditnie. SIR. .A.. vJ. SIMIITHl. Jawmry 36th, J.'iSl. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I am quite anre the House will be gr.iti Sed to learn that I do nat intend lo deliver a speech of any considerable length on this o<;i.asion. Ueforo proceed- ing to discnsH tho rewiliition before tho House, prrliHpH it will bo aH well to Hottln the iiKitler which may be regarded as a personid one between the Fiuanre MiuiH- ter and myself. In the course of his speiM'h the other night tlie liuii. gentleman tlirew across the Hoor a challtMige. |[o snid he wa.s prepared to go to mv count.y and to meet me at any time. The hon. gentleiuan is tho only n-presentativo iu the < iovernmeiit from New Bruiihwick, and he liulds all the patronage in his hands. iiitherto New Brunswick had two representatives in the (ioveri.nicnt, but the hon. gentleman, for. some reasuu bent known to himself, seems to prefer that he should be the only representative of that Province, in tho councils of the ' country. My linii. friend has also great advantage in this respi'et, that he has two very vile and alaisiye newspapers in New I5runswick under his cuntiol and subject to his iii/'jtiration. Th> ir special mission seems to be to al)usi' and attiick me, not only politically but personally, on all occasions. I am dispose! to challenge my lion, friend the Minister of Finance, for his challenge is rather i idefinite, iind I do Ko in this- form. If he will resign hia seat I will resign mine; let him come to Westmoielau'l and ruu against me, and if 1 do not beat him by more than "lOO votes, that iie and 1 will retire into private life. I think it was not very becoming of the hull, gentleman who !e|)resents St. .lohii by only nine votes, that he should Haunt a challeuye across the ilooi' to me, when he is awaro that I have a majority in my couiitv of betwem 0()O and 700. £ will give th' hon. geatleiiiiin six weeks to consider this proi)Osition. Sir LKONAHD T£LLK\^: I repre- sent the whole constituency, for at tl.e lastelection 1 was returned b^y acclamation. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH : If yoa entertain that view, you will be the more re.'.dy to accept the challenge and ]mli .-lO.neone else in fur St. John. I 'laving thus brietly referrad to the matter be- tween the Kininoe Minister and myself, I will now ])raceed to otl'er some ol>serva. tioiis in relation to the amendment I moved last night. If there is one prin- ciple which sliould be regarded as sacred and should be ailhered to on all occasions, it is the principle connected with the (idminist ration and conduct of public 64 111 buaiiipsp, thi\t public works should ^ let I take any such advantage, aud we want the country to understtmd tb-^t we do not seek to overthrow the Uovornment by defeating this contract. It is well known thiit an offer has been made much more advantageous to the country than the terms of the present contract, and made, too, by a body of men as wealthy, as re- spectable, and as responsible as the mem- bers of the first Syndicate, and that they are prepared to construct this work from end to enil for millions of dollars less than is asked by the first Syndicate. Why do the (lovernnient not accept itl Have by jjublic tender and competition. The advantage s of carrying o\it that principle cannot be overrated, it prevents favorit- ism and corru))tion ; it secures purity in the administration of the affairs of the ceuntry and prevents fraud. In this case it will not be denied that this principh; has not oidy not been cairied out, but has been absolutely violated. It cannot be con- tended for a singh^ monient that the public had any notice of the intention cf the j Government to receive tenders for the , construction of the Pacific Railway. The i)olicy of the (iov(>riime;it was recognised i as settled during last Se.ssion, and it was i deciiled that this work should b(! con- I structed as a Government work and in no ! other way. Hon. gentlemen opposite approved of the policy then promulgated by the Government, and also voted for the [ valuation given to the lands in that | region. They also approved, and sup- [ ported and sustained by their votes the ' estimates of the costs for the construction of the railway. The Minister of Rail- ways told the House that this conti'act on the Table was maile under the authority of the Act of 1872; but it turned out that that Act wa., repealed. The lion, gentleman al.so stated that this contract was made under the authority of the Act of 1874. My lion, friend, the leader of the Opposition (ifr. Blake), has clearly shown that that was not the ease, and that there is no portion ot it which is conformable to the contract; and, there- fore, the Minister of Railways hn that the Oov- ernment intended to change and radically alter the policy of last Session, that they intended to receive tenders for the con- struction of this work, it seems to be a I'easonable solution of the present difficulty that this contract should be abandoned and the work let out to ]tublic tender. I am satisfied that that will Ijo more satis- factory to the people than any other course. Hon. gentlemen on the other side say that if this cor.tract breaks down the Government must full. Now, we on this side will undertake, and the leader of the Opposition has exprew^ed him.self in the same .sense, to waive any such chance as that. We are not disposed to they no legard to economy in the revenues of the country ? Why should they not j endeavor to save from $10,000,000 to ' $20,000,000 by the acceptance of the second offer t But even that offer, in my view, is cpiito too much ; I think the I work can be done for a great deal less. The only argument advanced on the other side in favor in favor of this ctmtract is, that it is better than any other offer wo have ever had. Now I am pi-epared to sh"w, teyond controversy, that no offer was ever made, either by statute or by contract, e(pial in enormity to this, and that this contract .gives more than was ever proposed to be given before. Before coming to that it may be well for me to contrast, as my hon. friend the leader of the Oppotjition has contrasted, this contrast with the provisions of the Act of 1874, and show wherein they difi'er. First, l(?t us con^iare this contract with that made by the Government in 1872, with Sir Hugh Allan. Now, it is important to have the views of tlie Government on that day. I presume they endeavored to protct and guard th& public interests. This contract shows precisely what the views of the Govern- ment were in refti'ence to this transaction. There is no concession made in that contract such as we have now, and the (lovern.nent have failed to give e.ny reason for the change. The Allan contract provided that certain portions of the stotsk should beheld in each of the Provinces of the Dominion. Why is it that there is no provision of the kind in this contract? It Wius tiieu cons:id«!red by the Govern* ment of the last importance tiiat this work should be constructed by Canadians alone. It was then considered of the last impor- tance to exclude foreigners and that the work should be a Canadian work. Why 65 thf change in tliis r««ppct 1 We are told uuw tliat it is imich better to give this eontratt to foreign oa|)itiiliHts, and so we liii'.e on the Synilicate Kiigli'erfW;tly competent for Oreorge Stephen and liis associates to go to New York ami s-ell this oontract to ^'anderbilt, or any otiir-r great lailway magnate. Tlierc is notking to prevent foreigners holding' tills entire reail, and holding all tlie viihiaKle franchisrfs and ])rivi!eges whieh ai>' conferred by this contract. I will venture to make the prediction that the leading men in that S\'udicate will not he six months hence in tiiat (virpora- tion at all. Now, it seems to be a seiions matter tJiat foreigners should com'* in and control that wliolf- con tra.rr, imd eventually control the powers of tliis 1 eg islafu re -- because, b}' the tet'ins of this contract, our powers are tied lip. they are suspended by this contract in favor of the Syndicate. 'the Allau eonti-act provideid that all the direcMrs sliould be IJritish subjects and that tliemunber .should be tliiiteen. This contract simply provides that a majority of the directors should be British subjects, and it does not limit the nundier at all. 'J'hn-e ,M<)0 of stock each. Now, this is a veiy imiiortant and .se/ious change in tilt! policy of the (lovornnKmt. Why has it be;;!! p.iade ? If there is money to be made in this contraci our own people ought t'> have it. If there is money to be made in running this road, it is but right that Canada should get the benefit of it. In 1872, when the (Government was coni])08ed of nearly the sanu^ gentle- men as now, they thought then that this railway should be i\ British institution. Now, they seenj to think it is best to hand it over to foreigiiers, and they have failed to give any explar.:!ti'>!i of this change of view. The Allan contract gave .*."50,000,()00 in cash, this contract "gives in cash and railways .$(U),()()O,0(l(). The Allan contract gave no choice in selection of lands, this one gives a large measure of choice to the Syndicate. Tlie Allan contract gave no exemption from taxation or from Customs duties as this does. If it is right now that these exemptioua should be made, wliy was it not equally right in 1872 ? I say that this exemption from taxation applies rot only to the main line but to all its branches that may hereafter be constructed under this contract. The I company have liberty to construct I branches everywhere, anywhere, and at I any time, one hundred or two hundred I Vf ars hence, and the exemptions will I apply to the branches so far in the future. If that is not the intention, I woidd j suggest to the First Minister that he- I shoidd look into it and have it mad» i clear, as 1 am satisfied the S"ndicate con- ! sidered that to be the ( i" 'ition of the contract. Sir JOHN A . M ACDv /. \ 1 . i : It i» a mistake, I can assure the noxi. gentle- man. Sir ALBERT J. SMIT^ : Then you; have not put it so in the co?! tract. The Allan contract made no exemption from> import duties ; this contract does. The Allan contract provided for the taxatioa of the land grant at once ; this contract provides for the exemption of the land grant for twenty years, and as some por- tions of the land will not be granted until the tenth year, these exemptions will last for thirty years. The Allan contract gave no exclusive privileges for the construc- tion of railways in that country. It left this Parliament free to exercise their dis- cretion in conferring on any parties the right to construct railways in that country. This power is taken away by this contract;: the hands of the Legislature are tied up ; no one caii obtain power to build railways except in such directions as to serve the interests of this corjwation Under the Allan contract the Government had power to regulate tolls. This contract gives no such power until the company have earned 10 per cent, of the cajjital invested in the road beyond all expenses. It is said we ar^going to have a modification of this •• clause, us we certainly should, or else the ■ company will have jiower to do as they" choo.se in respect of tolls. I would like to I ask my hon. friends from Manitoba wliat I they expect when the I'embina Branch is I iianded over to those men, who own i the railways on the otiier side, and who will at once have power to I enforce sni;h tolls as they please; because- ! the 10 per cent, clause applies only to the 66 I I filllMlltl ! whole road after it is constrnctfd. I listened last night witli great attention to my hon. friend from Nortli Himcoe (Mr. McCarthy) wlio, I must do him the credit to say, did frankly and fairly endeavor to answer the arguments put forward by gentlemen on this side wiiile otliers on that side pt to do so. I was very much ainii.sed at the hon. geutlonic n's great ingenuity. He t«hl us tint hia first conviction, on rei.ling tliis contract, was that it was outrageous, tliat it could not be jn.stitied, and tliat he could only feel Justitiod in ratifying that contract by repudiating entirely the value <;iven to the land by the (lovernnient last Session. Mr. McCarthy : That was not my statement. 1 accepted th«; value given to the lands by the Government, and the value placed upon them by the hon. gen- tleman and his party — $3. 1 S {)er acie — not because I thought that was their value, but merely for the sake of the .argument, and I said that Sir ALBERT J. SMITH: My hon. friend *last Session sustained the policy ot the Government in j^Iacing that value upon them. Mr. McCarthy : No, no. Sir albert J. S^f ITH : Of course he did, when this matter was regarded as a Government work. Under the Allan contiact the Government had i)ower to appoint officers to see that the work was faithfully ])erformed, whicii was a very necessary provision ; but under this con- tact they have no such power. Under the Allan contmct, tlie Union Pacific Railway -was simply to Ije an ajiproxi- mate standard, a sort of general guide for ■the construction of the railway ; but it did not stop there. It ])rovided for an improvement in the ilignnient and grades wherever that could be obtained, without undue expenditure. A letter has been put in, which has no leg lett"ect whatever, ;and tiie standard is to be that of the Union Pacific Railway when first con- structed. When tlie Allan contract was made, no portion of the C-anadiau Pacific Railway was built, and no portion could be handed over to the Conij^any ; by this contract, all parts of the railway constiuct- •ed are to be handed over immediately on the consummation of this contract, and we know that they are profitable and are producing a large reveinie, even now. It has been .said by hon. gentlemen op|)Osite, from the hon. the First Minister down, that this is the best otfer ever made for the construction of the Canadian F?acific Railway. No oft'er was made under tli(! Act of 1874, so that the only pieviwus ofl'er we ev(tr jiad was that of Sir Hugh Alhm. The discussion on thr [jart of hon. gentlemen o|)posite, has ])roceedpd on tilt fallacy that this company are to do all that Sir Hugh Allan's (•om])ai)y were to do. Sir Hugh Allan's contriict was to build 2,700 miles ot railw;iy, for wliii-h he was to get $30,000,000 an', 50,000,000 of land; or, .511,111 in cash and 18,400 acres ]>er mile. Under this contract, which hon. gentlemen op])osite say is more favorable than the Allan contract, the Syndicate gets for building, not 2,700, but 1,900 miles, .*25,0O0,0O0 in cash, and 25,000,000 acres. Delucting $700,000 for tlie first 100 miles we&c of Winnipeg, over Mhich the company has to pay cost price, leaves $24,300,000 which the company will get in cash from the Government, or i^l 2,800 casii per mile in addition to the railways now being and to be comi>leted, and the cost of survey, which amounts to !ii>32, 000,000, or $16,8^2 per mile, making a total of $29,642 per mile in cash. Then this company are to get 25,000,000 acres or 13,156 acres per mile ; valuing the land at J*! an acre, the total subsidy is equal to 842,798 per mile, while under the Allan contract the total subsidy only amounted to §29,511 jier mile, tsiking the lands at the same price, ^l per acre; making a ditt'erence in favor of the latter of f 18,000 per mile. In addition to getting §13,000 |)er mile more thaia the Allan company, this Syndicate got the Pembina Bianch, which I have no doubt, in a year or two, will give a net jirofit of 8iOU,000 ])er annum. These calculations cannot be controverted. Under the cireimistances, is it not pro])er this work should be put ujt to public competition, so that every man sliould have a fair chance to compete for this contract? It will save millions and millions of dollars to the counli v. These gentlemen ot the Syndiciitu t-ould, iu another year, if they choose, sell the whole thing at an enormous profit. Therefore, I move in amendment : — That the eaid resohitioDH he not now read a secund time, but that it be re^iolved, that in the 67 -ooinion of this House tenders (should be invited for the coDstnictioD and cpcTation of the rail- way, before Parliament is asked to ratify any contract for the same. January 2Sth, 1881. Mr. G. G. KING said : Bef6re these resolutions are read a second time, I desire to call attention to what apjjears to me to be a dangerous as well as iniportaut featUHi in this contract, I refer to the standard of construction. Everyone who has paid paid any attention to the build- ing of the Canada *Paeitic Railway, knows that two objects have been kept in view ; lirst, the ojjening up and development of the North- West, and next, the securing a large foreign trattic over the roatl when •constructed. As surveys Iwive jjrogressed from time to time, the country has been told tliac we possessed a route a thousand miles shorter from the Pacific Coast to England than tiuit from San Francisco Ilia New York. That in addition to this it would be possible to secure at & reasoiuible cost a route eminently more favorable in respect to grades and curves tlian that of any line now built south of the boundaiy. Speech after speecii has been delivered in this House and out of it, showing that foreign tratKc and travel ■were to flow over tliis great transconti- nental 11 *'. TJie trade of China and Ja|)an wab to pass by our doors. The hon. member for Lambton had been so far successful before retiring from ofKce, as to be ,in a position (had the financial condition of the country warranted it) to have placed the whole line under con- tract, basing his estimates for the work on actual surveys over a line on which the grades would not exceed 26 feet per mile coming east ami 40 feet per mile going west. We find on referring to the report of the Chief Engineer, in 1H77, that the estimates then made were for a line of i-Ortd equal in «ivery I'ospcct to the Inter- colonial, and so far an grades and curves were concerned, they were to be much more favorable. In proof of this, I pro- pose reading from the report to which I l;a\ e alluded, in wliich Mr. Fleming says, speaking of the C. P. R.: " The amount of the expenditure mny, in the first place, be reduced by the introduction of tunbcr trestle-work in the ])lace of silid earth or rock embankment, 'Mid by the use of tempo- rary structures in jjlaoe of permanent ainl more costly oues. X'arious expedients could be re- sorted to, to limit the first expenditure t.";n('rally bv the adoption of periahab'e works io )w re- placed as they re'iiiire • vcftoration by ninre permanent works. By this means the first cost could be reduced, but with the prospect of ultimate increased expense. It i<« consilered advisable to take the standard of the Inter- eolonial Railway, where solid and ])eriiianuut works generally prevail." The first intimation we had of a departure from the policy of the lion, member for Lambton, for the construction of tlie Canadian Paeillc Railway, was a letter addres.sed to the Chief Engineer of this railway by the Minister of Railways, on the ir)th of April, 1880, in which he says: '■ Dear Sir. — The Pac-fio Railway debate will begin this afte' noon, and I must ask you to furnish me with an estimate of cost. luj^ doin^ this, take the following data : — ^ '■ The four contracts recently let in British Coljmbia, making full allowances tnr the re- ductions to be made and referred to in your report ou th?sfl contrxcts. " With regard to the location and character of the railway, I am aware that your own prefprence has been for a line with light, easy gradients. The (Government recognizes the advantage of this feature between Lake Superior and Manitoba, but west of Red River we attach less importance to it than the rapid settlem< nt of the country and the immediate accommoda- tion of settlers. " The policy of the Oovernment is to con- struct a cheap railway, following, or rather, in advance of settlement, with anj workable gradients that cub be had, incurring no ex- penditure beyond that absolutely necessary to effect the rapid oolonization of the country." I can understand that the position then taken by the Government might be defend- ed on the ground that the savingtolie effect- ed i)y the cha.ige was in the intwests of the taxpayers ; but it is quite a difl'erent thiug when it is now ])roposed to hr.nd over to the Syndicate 2,000 miles of tluit road to build, which, according to the estimate of Mr. Fleming, submitted last year, would cost $48,.iOO,000 for which they are to receive nearly double that amount. The hon. gentlemen then called the atterition of the Hou.se to a return laid on the Table which purports to b** the basis upon which the Government founded thei.* policy in selecting as a standard for tht^ 68 •' :^ i construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway, tlie Union Pacific Railway. Tlio return whs made np of a letter signed by rlie President of tlie road and some Directors, a report, on the condition of the road and a minority report of Directors. The gentlemen who made the tirst ii.^ their opinion that rei)ort s,'ave it the I'liion Pacific Railway was C(nnplete.l in 1870. Tlie other, and the ore on wl ich it would appear the (lovernnient based their judgment, read as follows : — "The tirst question that comes before tha ComiuiaHion is, what is meant by Coiiuress in its varifms Acts relating to the Pacific Railroad by tlie words ' first oloss railroad Y ' " * . * In tlie opinion of the C'omniission the require- men's of the law will be satisfied, and the designs of Congress carried out, if the roads ■were i)roperly located, with judicious grades ; have substantial road-beds of good width , bal- lasting, which with proper care shall be ahle to keep the track in pood condition throughout the year; pcnuanent structures for crossing itreams, good cross ties, iron and joint fastenings ; suflicieiit siding', water tanks, buildings, machinery, adequate rolling-stock — the more im[iirtaiit machine shops and ergine houses being of ma-onry ; and the Commission is glad to bo able to say that, in its opinion, while swue expenditures scill need to bo made, these two roads are substantially such roads to-day. The expenditures needed for ciinpletion will be given in detail for each road.'' Notwithstanding these gentlemen are disposed to report so ftvonibly, we find a little farther along in their report they are obliged to admit that over one and a half million of dollars will he required to put the road in a condition tit for traffic. In the details of deficiencies enumerated by them we find that five hundred and twenty thousand dollars would require to l)e expended in the way of ballasting, and five hundred and fifty thousand in re- placing temporary bridges and trestle-work with more permanent si i-uctures. I have in my hands a rejiort by another gentle- man who was appointed by the United Htates , near Arpen, 54 feet high, 408 feet long. >o. long. No. long. No. 7*36, near Arpen, 50 feet high, 600 feet 767, near Arpen, 29 feet high, 186 feet Wasatch, 29 feet high, 186 Wasatch, Wasatch, Wasatch, Waeatch, 71 feet high. 590 24 feet high. 369 3.J feet high. 350 35 feet high, 386 708, nea: feet long. No. 7!'9, near feet lovg. No. 800, nea feet long. No. SOI, nea feet long. No. 802. neai feet long." If furtiipr proof is wanted that the road in Ftib. 187-5 was not in a condition of a first-class road, we ha\e it m a report from the President of the (Jouipauy to the shareholders in 187-5, in which it was .stated tliat the perinav.eut bridges were not completed till 1874. I think tins -ought to satisfy liou. gentlemen that the Union Pacific Railway, as it existed in 1873, IS not ,a tit standard to be selected for the Canadian Pacitic Railway. But we are told tliat the interest of the .Syndicate will induce them to construct a first-class road. We are also told that we are fortnnate m having secured these gentlemen, as they have a very extensive experience in dealing with railways ia the Avest. Rut, I ask what guarantee have we in this contract, that tliis ^Syndicate will of themselves build the road ( "What is to prevent their handing the contmct over to Grit Syndicate No. 2, retaining in their own hands the ditference in the two ofters, viz : 83,000,000 in cash and .3,000,000 acres of k M I think if any- thing should be takta on trust in this mattei', it should be the promises of the Government and not that of the Syndi- cate. It must be jilain to every hon. gentleman that the Minister of Railways and Canals in letting this coiitract was not aiming to .secure a first-class road. I will read from Ifmtsard, of December 14th, 1880, an extract from the speech of the Alinister of Railways, as follows : — " What would have been my position in de- mandii.g excessive terms in relatioQ to the standard of the road, when they had in their hands my own statement, the statlment of the (joverumeut of Canada, with all the resources of the country at our back, that we were com- pelled to lower the character of the road in order to construct a cheap line of lailway?" It must be well known that the Govern- ment have contracted with the Syndicate alicady for tlie construction of a portion of the Canadian Pacific, cection o of the contract says : " Unless prevented by the Act of God. the Queen's enemies, intestine disturbances, epide- mics, Hoods or other causes beyond the coutrol of the Government, the Goverunieat shr.ll cause to be completed the said Lake8uperior »t;>;tioii, "by the dates fixed by the existing contracts for tne construction thereof ; and shall cause to be completed the portion of tlie Siid wcatern sec- tion no. V under contract, name y, from Kam- loo]>s to 'S'ale. within the period fixed by the contracts therefor, namely, by the thirticili day of June, 1885 ; and shall also cause to be com- pleted, ou or before the lirat day of May, 1891, the remaining pcrtiMii of the said west-rn sec- ti'.n, lying lietwaen Yale and l\irt Moody, which shall be constructed of ei|ually uood ijtiality in every resjiect with tne standard hereby created for the poition hertby con- tracted for. And the ^ai(^ Like Superior sec- tion and the portions of the said western section now under contract, shall be completed as neatly as practicable acordiot; to the specifica- tions and conditions of the contr^ct.'J therefor except in so far as the tame have lieen moditied by th<3 (iovernnient prior to tlie 21st day of October, 1880." Naw, as this is the first contract let by the Syndicate for the construction of any portion of the Canada Pacitic Railway, it will only be necessary to determine its •^ 79 character in order to decide wlmt tlie in- terests of the corn[)auy will lead them to do in dealing with other portions of the line. We find on rnferrinj^ to the rei)ort of Mr. Scliriber, made since this contract was entered into, that the part of the . road lefeired to ir section 6 is to be an inferior road. In dealing M'itli this ques- tion that gentleman says : "In British Colunibin the line followiJ the valleys of the Thompson and Kraser Rivera, passing along the steep mountain sidles, 80 that the shiftiug of the line a few feet either to the right or to the left, increases or dimin- ishes the wori< to be done very much." Acting Tipon suggestions made by Mr. Fleming, he proceetls to say that by mak- ing an e.\trt;mely careful study of the tiuiil location, by sharpening the curvature in some places, by using great judgment in adjusting th( alignments to sinuosities and sudden and greats- irregularities of the ground, by substituting the cheaper classes of work for the more costly when- ever it can safely be done, and by doing no work that is not absolutely necessary, a vtivy marked reduction may be made. Ml'. Schriolier then proceeds to .say : " Ihe engineers liave given the final location great care and attention, and have exercised good judgment in fitting the line as far as practicable to the contour of the country which, combined with slightly sharpening a few of the curves and steepening some of the grades, hiis resultcil in the reduced eiitimnte of cost set forth in the statement referred to.'' Now is it not plain that if the Sj'^ndicate really intended to build a tirst-class roiul, they would, in making this theii- first contiaci, liave insisted upon a standard higher than laid down in the report which I have iu.st ntad. It must be l>orne in mind that ^Ir. Fleming last year estimated this 125 miles of road to cost ton million iioUai's. and that on the basis of a road of any workable gnidients with no costly bridges, and that this year Mr. JSchriber has by the means suggested in his report still fui'thei- reduced the estimate to about eight millions. While it is possible that the .Syndicate may build a fairly good roaroperty and ca[>ital. Why. hon. gentlemen, umler this Bill a Syndicate would requirt: but a very small amount of cajiital ; they would have the (ilovernment as their banker at tlieir back, and men of good reputation, men of % MAmliiij; and cluiract«r, men of hnniucHs ■cnpacity, eoaUl inulertake it, under Huh- Kection D of this Act, without anv inoro mihHOiil).'(l cajnUl than IS.OOO.OOO" The $1,000,000 which the (Jove-.iiment n-- ijuire as Hocuiity was jihiccl by the second JSyv.dicato in tlio hanks, ready to he lianded ov«i' to the (T(*efnmeut, and I have not tlie slightest douht in my mind that the gentlemen who composed that Syndicate were perfectly in earnest, and that they intended, and would have oarritid on the work. With the endonM^mont of the "Go/ernment, they had every possible Advantage, under subsection 1), to enable them to do so. Tiiey had the lands, a large amount of lands, on which they had ! given a mortgage. These bonds would j have been eiKlor.sed l>y the Government | of the country, and there is no reason j why they shr ild not sell in any uiarketi as well as other bonds of the Dominion on Canada. Tiie reason of the rejection of the second otter has not been given in any of the speeches that have been made. It has merely been asserted that the members of that Syndicate ■were not sincere. The jmblic at large, especially in the Maritime Privinces have very often asked why the otl'er of the second Syndicate has not been accepted ; but an answer has never been gi"on. Now, there is another thing that strikes me with regard to tliis otler. If it is a Vtenc tic'iiii one ; if it ik desirable to have thi.s road built by a eomi)any and not by the Government, and there are many a.t'guments that might be advanced in favor of it, why has not the whole roail been put under contract '! Why should the Government reserve a portion ot the west- ern eiul, which they constriict themselves and finish also thf; eastern end, and take ten yeais to .icconifdish it I The Govern- ment controlling the building ol those two sections is one of the o))iectionable features of this Bill which have Vieeii raised at various times. Objections have frequently been raised to gov;'rnuieiits oonstructing works of that nature ; that it leads to corruption and jobbery ; ami various other charges have been made 41'jainst governments carrying out jiublic works of tliis magnitude. Had this given out the wlioie work to the Syndicate, it | would have silenced that particular I .A.vgtiment. A great deal has been said | about building the road north of Lake I Suptirior. Various reasons have been given why the whole tlirough route through British Territory should be constructed, not flome future time »v]ieu tlte country would he in a better position to do it, not at tlie present inonK-nt. Certainly it appears to nie it was a hasty thing, and I cannot see any argument that has iieen deduced to show that the Sault route would not be the most desir- able for the jtresent at all events, what- ever it way be in the futuie. It ■ uuld be constructeen the people in the North-West and their neighliors in the United States, and to say (hat a strip of land nearly SOO miles in length, and fifteen miles in width shall be left without railroad accommodation. It does seem to me to be an extraordinary piece of legislation. Prol)ably, in a lew y^ars we will see this .scctioix quoted as a curiosity of legislation, People will ask in what school of political economy the legislators of this age had studied, when they kept a number of settlers in the IJ^o'-th-West separated from their neigh- bors to the south, and deprived them of tliat int«rco»irs{! whicli would ulU'viiite them of Moiiu) of t.lieir sufferinj^s, and uh- siHt tlu'in in forming their wttl'.'nient. It is not my intention to ^o throu^'li the vtu'iima argunuiuts tlmt have be<;n used as to nionopolioH. They have hetMi fully exjilaincd. Shoivld that country hocome populated, and should it be fonnwl into 8]>li was mainly indicative of their feeling oa that great (piestion. If that be so (and i am (juoting the ojiinions ex]>rpssed l,\v hon, gentlemen opposite) this railwiiv ((uestion could not have been one on which they expressed any opinion oi- gave ;iny decision. 'I'lierefore, if ever a question was presented to Parliament without an o[ij)ortunity of testing the ])opular seuti-'' ment upon it, that question is tliis, one, which involves such ti'emendous interests for all future tinu^, and whicii possilily cannot again beatl'ccted liy pn[iular action. The hon. Senator from Amherst (Mr. Dickey), in his speech this at'teruoon, .nade the striking observation thnv the oojectiou that this company would have a monojioly of the trattic could not be sustained liecause on the northern side of the line this Svndicato would not tret the whole conntry — that they were not to be told, I suppose, like the patriarch of old to look northward, southward', eastward and westward this whole land shonUi be theirs and tlu ir assigns for ever.. 'J'he hon. gentleman spoke ot a rival line on the north shore of Lake Superior, and the hon. gentleman wdio iias just taken his seat, and who spoke so well on'this subjecfc has also alluded to facilities for providing a rival line. They seem to forget their other ex]n'essions that it i-equires a very large subsidy to build a line through tlmt part of the country at all. That has been their argument ; hoAv, then, could there be competition '/ Did hon. gentlemen think tliat the Government of thi.s country in their benelicence, will, after biilding this great highway, contribute, within the T4 I next century, to the builcHiii; of a cotn|il<'tin>^ routft I If not, then how can wo iiavt' II compftin;{ lino on the nortli sljorc of Lake Suiicrior or, usanothtM- hon. p;ftiitlHiiiim put it. by a flivor^cnot* to Oiitaiio I I tliiiiU that tlie kiwi of a riviU line oompi'tiiijf witli tluH monopoly cannot for ti ninnifut iniprcHs its«!lf on our uiiiitlH. But we nvv rouiindcid that there are rtlreatly south of our frontier cotn- jietinj; lines for the tratHe of China ttiifl Jajian, and that tollH will be regulated very inuc^h liy tho«o rival roadH. Hon. giintU'nu'u who speak in that way are attempting to rebut an arijumtMU that has not ix'enmucli dwelt on in. this Chamber Thedaiij^'cr is that this Comimny may impone high ratrs on local trattic and retahl the growth ami progress of tliat cotmtry, the rapid settlement of which we wuuld endeavor to facilitate by every projiei- means. The (jovernment can afford these settlers ver/ little protec- tion liecause, if I understand the powers give)i to the Syndicate, the C'^npany will largely control the Govf-rnn , and not the Crovernment the (Jomjiany, and the same evils as exist and w Inch afflict the settlers njion the j)rairics of the Western States will aHlict these imMiiuraiits — these friends and countrymen of my hon. friend frouiToronto (Mr. Smith) — whom he hopes to get in there, and ta.t to the extent of 30 ))er cent, tor everything they require to purchatrc. They will find after leaving free Britain, where the necessaries of life are untaxed, jiossing the wide ociiaii, and travelling through the Dominion to the North-VVest, ]>aying when they get there •}() per Cent, on what they consume, and then handed o\er to the tender mercies of this soulless corporation, that their lot will be a ]it.,rd one, and I shall commise- rate the friends of the hon. gentifMitan when tliey are atilicted by the exactiuiis of this monopoly. To show the incon- si.steiicy of the hon. gentlemen who sup- port this measinc, and the difficulty they experience in tinding statements to gild their sophistries, "they tell us of their hopes of rival lines in the future, and then that this great railway eniuiot possi'nly ]iay expenses for many years, and that it is necessary, tiierefore, to grant the Syndicate the.se advantages and immuni- ties. Hon. gentlemen mu.st certainly sec the contradietoi-y character of these arguments, and consequently the weakness of tiieir caae. Tliey nay that it iu a great relief to the country to know tliat this matter is Hottled and the reHponsiiiility of the undertaking asHumed by a company. I have not to understood the bargain which has been presented for our accept- awf.. 1 am rather inclined to think that the (iovernn\ent will luive to keep up the same expttnsive stati', including also the I ('omniission of Inipury appointed by themselves to judge their own misconduct. I If the hon. gentlemen are right in taking ' this line of argument, then the whole I road shoulil have l)een hanc'ed over to the (Company. Thi»t Jiybrhl policy can hardly ' suit their fancy. [f they were not ex- perienced politicians and well skilled in parliamentary warfare, fshould be inclined to exclaim of them : ' ' 0, what a tangled wel) we weave Whi-n first we practice to deceive." This is a question of such importance that perhaps it would scarcely bo thought that I was doing my duty, (though not exactly physically in a conrlition to make many observations) if I do not give a few of my reasons for opposing this Bill. Reverting to the original basis of all the ti'ouble through which wo have come, — the union with British Columbia, — I remember well many of the expressions used by hon. gentlemen in this Chamber when that measure was before us in 1871. For myself, I \oted against it, not that I was wanting in harmony with the senti- tneut of union, or the ultimate connection by rail, but I objected to that measure liecause it involved an impossibility — the construction of a trans-continental rail- way within a limited j)eriod. I felt that the attempt to cai-ry out that agreement would lead to a great fh'al of difiiculty in liiis country, and possibly a great deal of endiarrassment to several successive gov- ernments. 1 think the views which were entertained by those with wliom I co- o|ierate(l on that occ:ision have been toler- ably well loalized, and if I were to i-ecall the I'rophecieH of those who supported that measure, I think it would be admitted that they have nut been fidlillcd to the letter. [ rememiier one hon. gentlenmn predicting that in ten years iVoin that date the population of the Dominion Wuuld l)e at least 7,000,001 ». The censiA of b'r'Sl has not been taken yet, but no one is so sanguine as to suppose that 75 tluMc has bown any such nicrcaMC. T r«- iu«!HilH?r a very iiiglily reHp«'''tod S«uator, HiibMe(|UoiitIy oiui of tlie Qii»)>wc judf^es, Hiitl now no moiv, ohject«il to tliat arrangoninnt at the tiiiit . on the ground that the dtsprni)oitioiiate r(']>res»Mitatiou given to Hritish Columbia was unfair to tlii> older provinces, wliose veprosentation in the House ut' Oouiinons was bused U])on their actual poimlatiou. This was n-plitid to, if I remember rightly, by the lion, gentleman who ho ably leads the Crovernment in this House, that all this would cure itself — that in ten years there would be ])eople enough in British ('Olumbia to justify that large re|)re8en- tatioM. That prophecy iilso has not been fulfilled. There has been nothing to in- dicate anything like a reasonable fultil- ment of those prophecies, I notice all through this discussicJu, not only here, but in iUiother })lace, that when lion, gentleman have a weak case which they cannot present, fairly and squarely for the acceptance of the peojile of Canada, they will either adopt the legal aphorism, "no case, abuse the other side," or they will take upon them.selves the mantle of prophecy and tell us that something is going to iiiise that will justify all their measures and redeem them in the minds of the people. These prophets were evidently inspired from a wrong source, and it is sonietiines well to revert back to some of those predictions and call attention to the fact that, they have not beeuveriKed in any shape or form, and show how unwise it is to base arguments upon such visionary calculations as to the future. As T .said before. I was not ojiposed to the union with British Columbia. I have a veiy keen appreciation— nobody could have anything else — of the delighttul and salubi'ioHS climate of the Pacific Coast, after heai-ing the eloquent speech of the hon. Senator from Ashwoft. I have always felt there was a country there -w^th which we should not olyect to be united on fair terms. With its pleasant climate it also possesses plenty of coal, a good deal of ])astoral hind, and, as the hon. geutleui.an told ii.s the other day, there are fur-bearing animals in the mountains tliat are going to add A-ery much to the traffic of the Canadian Pacific Railway, but, somehow or other, that Province fails to attract settlers. And, could that cpiestion of ' union, with all itn contingencies, be agaiiw submitted to Uh for our ratification, few of U8 would be inclined to put oui hand» I such an obligation as that was. Thtf next measure which came iKjfore us, and of which a good deal has been said, was the Estpiinialt and Nanaimo Kailway Bill. It was found impracticable fi go oi with the through line without increas- iii;, taxation ; and when that (juestion of building the railway within a certiiiiv time WHS first di.scussed in this House and some lion, gentlemen objected to the im- propriety of it as likely to entail a good deal of taxation u[)On the people of this country, we were told repeatedly that a certain resolution had passeh<>i'iNli- •ed ofrMjtriuy uf tlio ('oii-miAtttiA " (Jov- lu'jimt'iit, iukI tliut ill 1872 ih-y hft«l, in tln'ir (!ouium1 Clinn In r, iiiarlo ii MiuuU* ofCoiuioil for till' con ^tnu•t ion iuv of the IMiiiislry, the CoiiscrMiti vtt piirty who had initiativl tliiit ni-Ii( liaa ever used auainst thv du- einion ii( II » KimliMh (Jdveriiiiipnt, w»'iih h»d r«-fii8«id on tlie opinion of th* Iu* othcrfii of tho Crown, to allow him t" add t ' tht« nieinhev* ttf the .Senate, .tftrr Vliliie KiUat 1 UUiid had<^n- t» rod (Vaifederition. • llod \ in • i\ ecrniitted, he laid to iri)', 'to ba^ \ iiulita in that renpeet this wouKl iii'l ! .^pened, *ia^ how can thc«ti iniii hancen be ]ire\«||t«t|l ii) k htiAy, tlie m»inrity i>«' whieH, liik^tiin bma nominated by mv pullth al«p)ioiieMt, ii nwtnrilly iiuatile to lue," pUi>i eto , e|u. [ii another part of that speeeh xw tiud these remarkn : — " I believe the I'aoitic Railway hai i\i\ In tter friend in t'aiiada \\\i\n Mr Mfti koii/.ie, ami that he wall ot\l) oppisii\ III the li\\\(i tin\ < ii\ the hnrgnin. hccan«e lie \ieiieved them Ulipoasiblo of BrininpliKhiueiit, and that a conscipiitioua endtr.vor to fuUil thriii would imniHUnnftMlv and ruioouttly incii nne the tluanciat expeniliture of the country, and in both tV\f se opinions Mr. Mackcnv:ie was undoiibterUy l-ight." If the hou ueiithiiiian had any (omplainfc to make a;ass. 1 could not, however, with my ideas of propriety and consistency supjiort that P.ill, show- ing that 1 haro- ceed with became another (pu'stion. "We had to bosv to the inevitable, and wliile I 77 ya-.t^^ o( tho o^miion Uuit it wiih not doMii'uhlo tu (<(iiiiluit tliiit oowufrj to Niicli H Htn|i*-ii- l|l)ll■^ i\t'i' It wu .lililiti-(l li ]it'lioil Ih>- i(Ht; w»< I ■ iKjpii'lH.Udii iiiiil n'HomecH wlii>>l Winil'l iMtuify nw .in doing ko, ypt I *!«•» tit tln' Miiimttty, iviwl wlici. Puiliuiiifiit hi»iil that If \n\yk ti*tii[-H^f\f Ui ^(1 (in with tlM (UHmitUfHiHl (i«f tiu- ('miatUini I'licifir H(ll|v*4y with »v vifi* to the (;iiirvinj{ ont o»' < ll»*-.f- lil'IMi, I i^ttiH ihf iiii|)oMsil.ilily of tho nttdfitakiiiii no fat' um ki'i-piii;; faith \Ulh Ultliutt » tTltltiil.iii uniici the Ai't NVEH imuM VHt'ili Alul so far hh we could do it Hl^JiUt Hu' I'lsohithm thdt hiul lifcn con- ti'l\l|» it'H \\\\ |>jlH«f' * I \ thinl<, 1),V |)ui>lii' nimi on inith siili N. //mi/ i/ii- iiintcrn hfilldii of l/iin riniil rinixfitiiti'd 11(1 fxivl (if tln(l. iiiidi'i'lokiiii/. Iiiitish (.'oltiinl in hiid no |)iirticuhxi' in- trri'st. >o lon;^ iiH the lim- wiis Imilt tliiough the Rocky Mountnins, whcthir the line wt-nt iiortli of l.itiie Sii|i(iior oi- soiitli of Lake .Su|»e>iof; tliut would lie a nnittf i- of minoi- conhidemtion. Tin- ,n)Hiii oliject vhicli they desii«'d to iittain. I piesum'', was to have coinniunicution thioii;!ii tho llocky Moiintnins with the Aineiiian and C'anudian system ol rail- ways. Tlieiefore, I do not think it w'lis lit all nHL-cssRiy for tho keeping of good faitli with BritiMli Colundtia thnt this lin«! in its entiiutj' should ho enihiiieed in one goneiiil Kclioni«\ And looking at the feitiliry of the western |iraivi(!s -if they Hfft as rich as they are re[ue«ented in this country and in the world ; as they are represented in tho {.)ld Country l)y our High (VMnraissioner, who said it would he his ciideitvor to so direct iuiinigration, etc., as to niuke Canada a kind of " auxiliary kingdom ' — instead of adopt- ing a jtolicy of olistruction it would lie better to allow that prairie country to almost take care of itself. ]f that coui-se were ado]tted in the North- West ; if it was not interfei'ed with hy sucli a mon- o|)oly iis this, it would de\elo}> into a great and piusperous co\intry. I have no doubt that till- soil is all it is represented to be, and now that its fertility and advantages havf Ijeon advertised the world over, it will be settled with great rajiidity and covered by a network of railways, provid- ed wo do not interfere or obstruct by any act of our own. Already we see the growth of settlement ; already we see a^»- plications to Parliament from people in the North-West for acts of incorporation for companieH ol diffeivnt kimla, and the- oidy thing to be done to develop that cimiitiy is for the (foveiiiiiieht to sidwi- dize a line iit such a way as to prem-rve^ its dii«'ctneHs and continuiiy, and it would I'ventnally l>e carried through^ to th« I'acith- Coast. In that way the line thioui;h the Itocky Mountaiim could b« d(Ie of this country. We know that tive or six years make n gniit, a vast difference in the circimistances of any ctaintry, par- ticularly in this new western hemisphere where everything is moving on with such an acceleratcil ratio of speed. We know that the art of railway building is b>ing wonderfully improved and cheajMMieo by modern inventive appliance.', and the sulistitution of steam for iii mual labor. The hon. leader of the Henate, in open- ing this debate, spoke of the cost of rail- ways in the Ignited States built under the old inHated greenback .system years ago. He spoko also of the expense incurred in the construction of tho Grand Trunk and other railways, where fortunes and high positions were secured by contractoiu Hut there are railways being built now through countries much more ditlicult than the 900 miles west of Winni- peg at a very much lower rate than the average mentione.l by the hon. gentleiyan. The em|>loyment of steayi and other improved facilities in place of tho old fashioned pick and shovel ha^ o simplitied construction work,and reduced the expenea to a wonderful extent. When the Allan contnu-t was entered into thei'e was no railway communication with the North- West, and access for the transportation of material and labor was very diliicult, so that hon. gentlemen who are at all acijuainted with laihvay work will at once see what a ditfcreiice it would make in the expense of constructing a road in thatcountrv ata time when there was none- 78 •of the excellent facilities which exist to- , day. Then there is the increaaed value j '^of the lautls of that coni.try, in conse- I quence of the junuiint of nionijy chat we have ex])en(led on it. Hunilreds of thou- sands of dollars have been expended to ' .extinguish the Indi.in title, to maintain Mounted Police, and jivomote settle- . lu,. t — alt-oyetlier changing the aspect ^ -of atfai's from wliat it was a few - veai's. ago, and disturbing the n ecu racy of the conipiirisons instituted by hon. gentle- ,aien who favor this Syndicate. Another disturbing element in thus;> comparisons lis the condition of the money markets of the wo)'ld. Hon. gentlemen who are in ■the habit of studying the financial -columns of the newspapers of the United . States, nmst ije aware tliat in Wall street and other commercial centimes, there is now B. vast .superabundance of capital awaiting investments — profitable investments, of course — if tliey can be found. Money is .abundant and can be obtained on ea.sy terms. This is a condition of affairs that ,did not exist a few years ago. Things have all been changed — the whole charac- ter and condition of affairs — therefoi'e, I say that the comparisons that have been instituted between the efforts that are be- ing made to build this road now, and the efforts that were initiated a few years ago. .are not, and cannot 1)e at all accurate, and .ai'e necessarily misleading in many re- spects. Then again, several gentlemen who have 8i>oken on tiiose different scheme" and offers seem to have forgotten that previo)!^ offers and schemes were for the construction of the whole line. They were not for the easier parts of the railway alone, for which this liybrid arrangement prjvides we shall give .$25,0'U0,<)()0 and 2ri,()00,()00 acrea of "land, and all those otlier ad vunt.iges I have .alluded to. The arguments of hon. gentle men opj^osite would have very nir.ch more .force when they undertake to tell us that it is vastly important that the Govern- ment iihould get rid of this work because goverriments are extravagant, and it has been the experience of the ]iast that their i estimates are always incorrect, — if this contract included the whole line. I have no do\ibt that there is a great deal of truth in tho;;8 observations, and that the final cost of t!ie unfiuished portions of tlie Pacific Kailway which the Govern- ment are bound to complete, will be very nmch more than was originally estimated, when they are finished and handed over CO thin company irady for use. I do not know that it is necessary for me to reftjr in any degree to the manner of making the contract. It has beer, stated by my hon. friend the Minister of Inland Revenue, in hi.'j very moderate, and in some respects, good speech of last evening, that there was a reasonable basis for ten- dering, and it was open for the gentlemen of the second Syndicate to have made an offer if they had thought proper to do so; and it was stated hy him, and was stated by otlieis, that the speech of the right hon, leader of the Government at Bath, was of sufficient importance to excite the attention of caj)italists, and induce them to tender if they were willing to undertake this work. I wonder if those hon. gentlemen who for five yeara were so critical of the acts of the late Government, an'l very properly struck committees, and ased their time and talents to discover defective adminis- tration, and to obtain information that might be used, and was used in a distort- ed form in the election campaigns, would have accepted (when a question came up as to the letting of a public contract by tender) a speecli of Mr. Mackenzie's at a party [nc-nic — or a club dinner — as being a sufficient notification to contractors even for the most trifling pulilic work ! I remember well on one occasion of tlmt kind, when hon. gentlemen who were acting presumably on behalf of the people in trying to discover some extravagance — some awful extravagance — that was committed by the late Administration, the objection was taken that the advertise- ments calling for tenders had not appeared in a fiijfii'irut natnhfr i>f >i>'irf^jiij,ers to justify the contract; that, therefore, it wa.s a waste of public money, and that, consecjuently some favoritism about it might be inferred. The notices liad been published in the newspapers, still those hon. gentlemen were so sensitive about the public welfare — .so an.vions to protect the people's money, that even in this com- parati\ely trifling transaction they found fault '.lecause a still greater publicity had not been given to it in order that men of capital in Canada .should have the very full- est opport unity to come forward and ten- der. But all this seems to be changed, and a pic-nic Bi)eech at Bath, a speech to the Jacques Cartier club, or any little inci- *>> i-^M mamsmasBBBimmmBsmmmi 7» dental expression of that kind, is now con.sidcied liy bon. yontli-nu'n opjwwte to be snflifiont to justify tlie ott'cring and the accei)tano<; of a t'-ndor involving an expenditure of millions of public money, and as taking away iVoni the trans.-tctiou that ap|icarantv of secrecy in whicli many people feel that it lias been enshrouded. This tfiider involves, )iot a matter of tririing importance, it involves §60,(JOO,000 or its equivalent. iMy judgment may lie very wrong, hut J ainnot convinced hy the arguments 1 have lieard oa this qu(!stiori from hon. gentlemen who are usuaHy very clear and logical in tlieir remarks. 1 have failed ti> be convinced that theie was any proper 1)asis given upon which the {luVilic could be aj)prised of the intentions of the Government. On the contiai'jj .vas the country rather, led to believe that this work was to be a public work ; that it was to be a \/ork undertaken and co::t'.)lled by the (rovernment. A good deal has been said about the monopoly, and the hon. gentleman from Quebec (1 am sure he will excuse me for making reference to him so often, but it is because he sjiokelast, and his observations ain more distinctly in my mind) or the hon. gentleman from Cumberland, said thit objection was taken to this Syndi- cate because it was open to theui to transfer their rights to an Anrerican 'Company ; and one of these hon. gentle- men said, for his part, that he would be very glad if they would, js it would lead to the introduction of Anifaican capital into this country. There may be a difier- ence of opinion as to that, There is a very great ditlerenco of opinion as to the amount of ca[>ital that may l>e requin^d to be Inought into the country by the Syndicate. I think that a great many intelligent pecjple in this country will come to the conclusion that this Syndi- cate, to construct this great work under the terms and conditions thiit are pro- vided for them will not require to import very uutch ca))ital into the country. Let hon. gentlemen consider for a moment the conditions on which this Companj' are to take the first hundred miles west of Winnipeg that are ah-eady built (except some four or five miles) and already equipped to a larger proj)ortional extent than the whole line will require, and if I am not wrong in my conclusions, they will find that this Syndicate^is to get that road partially equipped and fiuisliod in a trood style — better, I thl.ik, tliau tke Union PaciiJc Railway was n-Iftt, if irun p'rxt <:o}isti>'.ct(id — vAtli, <(ll on the C4oyern- ment of tin- contitrv. And if tliat is. an evil whi'li American statesmen are wont to deploie in a cotmtry of such illiuutable resoxiroes — a country with ..)0,(»00,Otl() of peojili' — how nniel) more likelj' is a monopoly, such ;<> tlivs is, to ht- ^n evil "ii this country with its popvdation of some 4.'.'.iO,(l(K) and witl-.out anything like the res.mrces that our neigldiours possess ; And, therefore, I think that the Government liave acted unwisely i concentrating sucli power in the Iiand^ of this Syndicau' ot gentlemen, with whom, J niav say. I am not r.^pniinted per- sonally, fi.nd o*' whom I \. 'Jidd not .say one woid of disfavor ! I have no douht the eu'ogiunis pasitd oii them are merited. 1 snppose they are men of wealth, and tliat thev have a'-qnirfd a good deal of that weahJ- 'm the (-ij .ntry. They are probably " all honorable men." Some hon. gentle- men said we are even under obligations to thf'm lor their nujgnauiniity in com- ing forward to make this bargain. I am not disposed even ^o dissent from that. I am v/ne of those who have the opinion that if th°se gentlemen had ii'- stnict.'d t'heii- attorneys to put.*10.0()0,ii>r capita was not as large as that of our neighbors, I might be UKue willing to join in that cry of Caiadiau iingoisin, or whatever it might be called, which impels uJi to go to the north pole in order to escape ming- ling in any way with our American cousins. Speaking of the Intercolonial Hail way, wo all know that a certain gentlemen, a former member of the Con- servative Cabinet — a gentleman I have esteemed very much for his abilities ever since I came to this Canadian Parlia- ment -a gentleman of considerable vei-sa- . 81 it in connec- ids iind right at is no nieiin to the wheat sHoct milling considerable nt cf the re- len, (IS I ini- s should not Y ahiindoned. ! the prairie » a larger pro i'or the other iment tixed it [ suppose it i» ht it was more lid be so. If sufficient for ind that those iblo, they may ect to the lack r tlie Govem- ler in which 1 suppose i woidd have pi'83uniptiou8, Now, with he importance ? North-West y is another he (loO miles ! am informed, itant. Some would be as t section for really needed iT(\sts that the slioiild build lid not go so titer tinancial Increasing the kvere not de- lom the well the Provinces I'bt ^x"*' capita ir neighlxirs, join m that Ir wha'i(!vor it Is nVi to go to (escape raing- ir American Intercolonial lit a certain of the Con- man I have [ibilities ever Idian Parlia- erable versa- tillry of talent, as members on both sides will \ou:h for— once stated that the route selei-'led for that roail was ei{ual to throw- ing S>, OH", (11)0 into the sea. Jlut it was not u!ily .?S,(t{»(t,0(in tliiit Wiis lost to the country ; tiiere was soineliiiiig nior<\ The slicr'.er iciite would have [iiovided greater faciliii''^ l"'>r ehCa^jlisliiiig a w inter [)ort in JIa!ita;v ' It would liavi- eulnuiced one- tliiiil v.nvr ;>ur prospectis of making St. .loIiK ;■. winter shippln;/ )Mii-t, 1 ha»c no iloiibr ibe Minister ot' Itailways is anxious tf» maki' the intereoioiiial liailwiiy ]>ay ruiuii-Ug expenses, lait after all liis elVorts, and with tlie hirge amouns of business and tv.i\e! o\er it (including the Sunday tri'tli ), tln-re was a loss last year of nearly $l<>0,Uil(' in working the line. That be- ing til': ease, and looking tft the proba- bility lit the opening up of one, if not ^i\'n Nlmitei" lines U> tlit* eastern seaboard, 1 eoueiadi- that the money which has actually been thrown away might be very safely i>ur. at thirly or forty millions. W'uli. now, if we have l(»sl so mueli as ihac by ■•onstructing the Intercolonial liailway by a routi^ whi<'h is noncommer •ciai, and the advocacy of which was lia.sed \ery much upon its military usefulness, how many more millions doi's any gen- tlemai! suppose wo will lose by building the O.!*'! miles of roiid north of I/ake Sinieri(»)'. where there arc no settlements, and w'lere none can possibly exist for man} years to come ( To show the str;iii> ttia if the exemption of this Company s lands from taxation be not granted -that actually it woulil bt so tlistasKiful to the people of Novu Scotia that it would result in an uprising! The amount estimated by one hon. gentli'inan that the Syndicate will savi' from the exemption clauses is #2(»,000,'.Hi(i, and he argues A'ery in- genion.sly, and J give him credit for a great deal of genius in sugar coating this pill, that if the Syndicate's property had been made subject to taxation, the Coxern- ment of Canada wouhl have to contribute that much more to the building of the road, and, therefore, the.se exemptions are a. relief to Nova Scotia I I do not think I need discuss tl»at argument very far. We ar«! not here arguing in tliat line. We iire here discussing whether we are giving this Comi>any too much power, lands and money, and at all events, too many privileges and immunities. It is not so much as to what the elVcct of re- quiring them to pay the taxes, will Ikj, as to compare the otters of tlu! two Syn- dicates, and that is a branch of the sub- ject which I have not yet reached. While the sticond Syndicate are willing to build the road for $.'},()UO,l,tOU and 3,000,000 acres less, which may be estimated at .*!),000,000 in money, they are willing also to relieve the Government and the country from many of the iinmunities anil i)rivileges contained in this contract. Therefore, I think it would be very diffi- cult for any honorable gentleman to show the country that there is any saving effec- ted by exempting^the Company's property from taxation. It is merely a boon to the Company. Then, we hear a great deal from day to day as to loyalty to the Brit- ish Crown, and one wouhl think that the Con.servative party of this coantry holds, except in some mc^moiable epochs of the country's history, a monopoly of that vii-- tuc. I!ut, when arguments are scarce, and when abuse of the other side becomes iiau3cou.s and tiresome., and prophecies fail to impress, this is a very fertile subject to dwell upon. Now, any hon. gentleman who has noted the current of events which ha\ e been taking place in all the older countries of the world, will discover that although the people' have l«;en born, ca- illed and brought up under the ref the otlier lands not con\eyed to tliei.'.i. The debt of Can- ada M now not far short of S16<',000,0()0, or 840 ]>er he;id of t)ie j)opulation. Tiie United States,with their 50,()()0,(»00 people, have rednced their debt to ^.'58 per head, after one of the .'"lost expensive wars on record. 'J'hey have limitless resoQrces within themselves, ond a stream of im- migration averaging nearly oOOjOOO a year, and many of them are, during the last vear or two. Cnnadians. At tlie present rate of change o\u' debt will, in m few yenr.-i doubh; that of the United States per cajnfa, and yet, with these things staring us in the face, we are asked to add immensely to debt without recfiv- iug any commensurate returns, and all this professedly in the interests of loyalty and iiatriotism ! Huild up wealthy inonopolies to sap the vitals of the country, make the poor poorer, and the rich richer, and you will need an outlay of another ijl 100,001) a year to (Jraw in foreigners enough to m;ike up for the exodus of our natives, Can it be sup- posetl that the descendants of the hardy pioniiers of the Eastern Pro\ inces, who wer-,' not fnvorc! with a fertile soil, lau who carved out a i'velihood from scanty resources — nnd witiio.it extraneous aid — will nov^ willingly Kubniit to be unduly taxed to supjwrt v.fi'.'in appliances fm- the western prairies or the Pacific duyo. where nature has been represented to bo I so profuse in her beuefioence ? How can this be expected, especially — if their money goes to fill the coffers of an I American Syndicate, which is clothed with extraonliuary power and boimd by no law suHicient to protect tlie settlers or advance the country — after buj'ing out an English company and expending large annual sums, deliver all up to a possible foreign com[)any with a bonus of .fi2.'i,0eO,00() and' all the railway.-- avail- able ? It will be difficult to make the people even of Nova Scotin, who were iin- jiropcrly, as I think, drawn into this Confederation without first being consult- ed at the polls, feel that while they were retained in the Confederation only by getting e(pial to about .*2,000,00t) on what is called " better terms," and thus indue d to work harmoniously with thti either members ofthe Confederation, they are now requiretl to ])art with a much larger sum without boing consulted. It will certainly be a strange anomaly if, at this time, without being directly con- ferred with, as to this important question, they be willing to part with live or six millions of dollars to be exjiended in sub- sidizing a fore'gn Syndicate, and in the canons of the Rocky Mountains. They will be unwilling to admit that they are lineal descendants of Is.sacher to crouch down between these Imrdens without at least making a solemn protest. Hon. Mr. MILLER : My hon. friend will recollect the terms of Union with Ilritish Colun.bia passed Parliament in 1871, and in the election which followed in 1872 the Province of Nova Scotia ratified by a large majority the action of its represeniatives, by supporting the Government of Sir John Macdonald. Hon. Mr. McCLELAN : The point I was going to make is, that the construction of this great work under the Syntlicate would impose a very l.irg*; local burden on the jieople, whieli I think m.ay be con.siil(>red somewh.'it objectionable to them, and I come to tliLs conclusion from the knowledge which we all must have, that even with the better terms which Nova Scotia obtained, it is clamoring now for the best terms, to u.se the adjective in tlie • ; , r ■••'• T of comparison. It is the ^nsluoa ia Pii isial straits and difficulties It. '-iudthsi. . Syndicate, and, I am 83 lion, friend credil)ly informed, tliey are about to form • a miniature Syndicate in Nova Scotia in j order to replenish a depleted treasury. That being the case, I am justified in j making the observation that on any qiies- j tion which involves so largely tiie taxation : of the peojjle, it would be only wise, and t subservient to popular rights, to give the l)eople an opportunity to pronounce upon the question. I would not refer specially to New Drunswick ; but at the time of Confedca-ation, leading statesmen gravely told the New ^-unswick people that the tariff" w )uld ucvtu' exceed 15 yxn cent., and a reduction to 12^ per cent, was moi-e than likely ; That $2.75 pur capita would be the high- esD limit of tiixatioii for revenue purposes. I am very, very sorry, to bo compelled to ackiiowledge that a great and oppressive "re-adjustment" has taken place sinoe that period, and tlie.se pledges have been found void of all sincerity, and are deli- beratfciy and igiiominousjy broken. Six dollars per head is now witliin the luaik, under a tariff which is tending to depopu- late the country even in tiiese [)lfesperous times. Under such circumstances, it can- not reasourbly be expected that New Brunswick will be grateful to this (govern- ment for adding this useless additional burthen. That Province may, however, derive some indirect advantage from the wealth of individuals of vhis Syndi- cate, united with local eaterprise, in furtherence of opening up a short commercial route to St. John, and hasten the making of that city a place of winter shipment, though a still shorter route cannot long be delayed. Now, as regards the second company, a go:^d deal has been said with reference to the men who compose it. The hardest assertion that I heard made against the first Syndi- cate was, that if the second company should get the contract, their rivals would be revengeful and cripple their resources; that is brouglit forward as au argument why the second off<;r should not be con- sidered, and that is the only thing I have heard that was disrespectful to Syndi- cate No. 1 ; and I do "'.ot believe that anything of the kind would take |)lace. But as regards tpe secoud Syndicate, a considerable nfimber of exjiressions hive been used thai might not br con- .siderod the most respectful, and Ih'ad- street has been quoted to bring some- thing against their financial standing. Now, I happen lO know one of those gentlemoii. He has not been always in political accord with myself, but as one who has worked his way from very hum- ble beginnings by the energy of his char- acter, I can sj)eak of him in nothing else but words of praise. He is not only a gentleman of great wealth, whatever others may say about him, but a gentle- man of extraordinary enterprise, munifi- cence and charitj^', who is doing very much for the Province in which he lives. I am sorry,, thereforo,' that he is repre- sented as a sort of eelemosynary, deriving what money he has from the gentlemen of the first Syndicate, and that, therefore, the second company derive their backbone from the first. I would infer from that statement that the Syndi- cate has lost its backbone altogether. Wifh reference to the gentlemen who made the second offer, they have given a better guarantee than was required. Tiieaovernment stiiiulated for $1,0U(),000; the secoml company deposited !i>l, 400,000. It is easy to understand that they have not deposited that money as a sham — that they intend it to be a guarantee foi- this work if they sliouhl. be negotiated with and treated as such a body of gentlemen might roasonally expect, and th(!iefore, I think the ob.serva- tions which have been made about them would have been better unsaid. I do not know personally the standing and character of tho.se gonllf-men, but I know the reputation of many of them. If Bradstreet is to be taken as gauging the character of gentiemen with whom the Gov(>rnuu'nt are to negotiate, it would be difficult perhaps to fiud the standing of the gentlemen eompo.sing the first Syndi- cate, for i think some of them are not rated at all, and, theiofore, having no rating in Brad.street they have no stand- ing at all. But there is one peculiarity connected with tlrs second Syndicate. They have not the merit of b:;irig United States citizens, which some hon. gentle- men, the hon. Senator from Amherst among them, regard as a great deside- ratum. Th''y are not likely to hand this monopoly, with all its rights and immu- nities over to Mr. Yanderbilt or Jay Gould, for the reason that being British subjects themselves they agree, if their proposition is accepted by the Governs 81 nl^•nT. tn ((jicu stock lioulvs ill t!u> (•hief «.•iti^?^ ot' ( .iMiula, wherein any irfTHMn- hleshfil 'ly ii kind I'rovidenci^ witli phis eJipitHl uiay Inive a (fliimet' to joii u tluN ireat Caiiadijiu uork. I think ta.ii in « condition of tliinjis wldoli every loviil oiti/.en of tlii.s eonntry would jireier to the contlitiou ot things mentioned by my lion. fri( nd, .uid tlien; is no use e;i\ illin;; aliont tlie ammiiit of money, or siiyinj; that tlu! f;l,l<)0,()ay customs duties on the mat(>rials which enter into the construction fif the road. 1 know I can speak for ( ,y N<- Hiunswic' friend, the " hack- Ik ne' ol '.iiem. He is not [larticularly favoiiihle to the National Policy, liut I think he is willing to give ii loyal o'oodi- euce to the hiws of the countiy. and will- ing, so far as the Syndicate go<«. to pay h\- regular (|Uot.a in the const r-uction of this work, towards ,tiUiiig up a treasury whii.h ^viIl need repleting and tilling up, unless !i merciful Providence continues to fiiviir lis with ahumhint harvests and continued good times. Tliey ask for no railway monopoly at all. t*on the tro\ eminent the right to resume the road if they should wish to do so on any' further o<-casion. They are also willing to he guided jind governed more specifically in the matter of Tolls and rates than the other Syndi- cate are. Then they siiy that if the]»eo{»lv of the Dominion should at some future time decide that thev cannot afford to open up the all rail route thi-oiigh our own territory and should say. " While w« ai'H sensitive ahout the rights jK-quired bv British Columbia under the mud bargain made ten years ;igo. we .in the eastern end of the Dmninion have also some rights and reipiiiements to be attend- ed to."' When the people feeling this way find it desirable to suspend the con- structimi of the eastern end and binld a commercial route nrst, in order that JNIontveal may become a greater centre than it is, and the other leading cities assiiinc large pro] tortious, and the (Jovern- iiieiit, acceding to the wishes of the people, whose servants they are, so decide, then thesis giMitleiiien biiul themselves to con- struct the Snult line. hut some lion, gentlemen say that this second Syndicate must be put down liecaiise they do not agree to liuild the line north of Lake Superior or to build the western section and run it - that they only agree to build the central section, fs tliat true ( Why do hoii. gentlemen put forward such statements us that to go forth to the country ] There- is nothing of tlie kind in the [U'oposed agreement. They merely say if tlie people find that it is desirable that any portion of this work should be suspended and the (lovernment so direct, they will he obedient to the tioveriment and tlie people, and, tlierefore, tlie argument which has been so freely used is in i-ealiiy no argument, and is, in fact, con- clusive evidence to my mind that thes» lion, gentlemen are devoid of argument to sustain this policy which will meet with tlie reprobation of the people of ('anada. One hoii. gentleman says he deplores after all the nushai)s which might have occurred to the Conser- vative party, of which he is a mem- ber, he feels more like ottering con- gnvtulations than using argument.s. Well, J' have no ihiubt of that, liecause that is exactly what lie did, for argument in favor of this Hill I could not discover in all his fine speech. ,\nd then wo are told how dear to the jieople of Canada is this C'onservative Government, but all through their sjieeches there crojiped up expressions which indicated fear of the re.jults of the next election, because thev contended that the only harm in accejit- ing the second otter would be the danger that in the event of a change of < iovern- im ut the two ends of the road would lie abaiKloned .muI a Liberal (jroveriiment might )-emain in power. Then, as to the tinaiicifd connections of the second Syn- dicate, some lion, gentlemen hove discov- ered tiiat tli'.^v have none. J have heard nn have also hoattcnd- f'ling tltis I the I'oii- (1 1)itil.l a •rtlfi- tliiit ter centre liti'^ cities II' ( lovein- :lie |)eo|)U', >ciH to COll- ioiue lion. Syixlicatu ) not ajjfref iii|i('i'ior or I rim it - lie central do liuu. itatc'ineuts ly i There- proposed ly if the that any siiapeiuled they will t and the argument sed is in I fact, cou- Jiat thesw rgument 11 meet '0[)le of says he which (Jonser- a nieni- ing cou- ts.' Well, ISO that iginnent discover 1 wo are 'aiiada is but all opjied up of the use they n acc('j)t- danger (•ovtin- ('ould he ernnient as to the ind Syn- e discov- \'e heard 85 ft- 1 )R the statement made, but not |)roved. Per- haps these hon. gentlemen know the .ap- acity of these nienibers tor tiie work, for myself, I iiniat say that I do not know, but I. think it is unfair to traduce tli(! <;haiactcr of Canadian gentlemen unless there is somo proof for the statements. Some hon. geijtlenicn gniv(>ly stated we should sujiport this Hill, although the bargain was made in .secret for the reason that the (iovermnent are bound in lionor to carry it out, and coiiceiveil wIkmi tlicfV failn, with abuse of the other side, luid my lum. fii(>ud from Londonderry ^i\lr. Mc- Leiaii), in the exuberance of liis imagina- tion, lias devoted his jiower of ridicule to the late Jiiberal Admiuistnitioii, and then to the members of this second Syndicate —and he has taken nither a wide range, when he refers to Beaconstield, [Jradstreet and blue-jays to support his theories. It is well known with what energy and per- si^'cranco this honorable botly labuied to discovijr evtMW possilsle waste of irioney, made it that they had suliicient jtower to or mistake in policy, on the jiart of the bind the people of tliis country without late ( Jovernment, and with what perti- liavii)g consulted them. Wiien I heard I iiacity the extra purchase of steel rails those olwervations 1 felt like saying to ! in a falling market, the seeming high I ho8e gentlemen who iitterel them, "Well, you ar(! not in the (rovernment yet." f do not jiropose now to dispute the faef that the honor of the Government is pledged, but tin- meml)crs of thi.s Hou.se are not ])lodged, and tlVrj jieople of this country are not bound by this agreement. The contract must come before the three (■states befoi-e it is ratified, and it ia now Itefore Us for our :i,cceptance or rejection. \V(! iiave a higher duty than merely to register the decision of the other House, a** suggesti.'ii by the chief organ, and lie prei>ired' to abandon all the rights of this 8enate. Why ou<^ hon. gcutleman says that this is a bai'gain which we are bound to accept ! The hon. gputlenian froui Toronto (.Mr. Allen) said, '• If you were tu let a contract for the building of a house, and about the time the contractor was to commence work you should receive a much lower oH'er ['loin value awarded for Kaniinistiquia lands, and the Neebing Hotel and Fort Frauees Lock outlay, in onh-r to utilize the large Tory exj)enditnre on the I>asv.son nnue, were in this (Jiiamber charged as mistakes only, but throughout the country, at every Conservative, gathering, tluy were trans- tormed into favoritism, corrui)tion and crime. No matter how often it was ex" ))lained thatthest.-tran.sactious were largely the result of the initiatory policy of their predecessors, or errors of judgment on the part of engineers or of arbitrators - no matter how often these exaggerated (•liarges wen; wholly and coniplet>dy re- futed or explained -they st'li must con- stitute the staple items of popular tirades, and be driven to use such |ialtiy a been another source, would you not feel that | counti'V f The ex-I'n^niier, too, ha.-> yon were bound by youi' acceptance ot the } lengthily i-efiM-red to in a very derogatory tirst offer '"' That is ipiiu; true ; but sup- ' manner, but during the years of his ad- [>ose. on the (jther hand, that the house nunistrai ion of the (Jovernuipnt. thniigh was built; by a tenant, anlthi-> cmi tract 'laboring under the great disaihantage of which he had made was by the , following a reckless and extravagant Gov- lenn.s of his agreement itself, to be sub- I ernnient, with the country committed to ject to the ratitication of the landloi'd, ! their unfortunate policies, and with rise and if before that contract was laid liefore I reduction of revenue arising from Tlie the eyes of the Jandlord another oiler, not great (lejtrcssion of trach; all over the only much cheaper, but also embracing world, I have never yet heard one of Ids conditions which would render tlie land- lord's tcnauts for all time locome happita' in eveiy way, do you suppose that land- 'o)'d would be acting dishonestl}'' if he accepted the si.>Gond oiler, or at all events dcclin(;d acceptance of the lirst till he could lurthi-r consider and determint Mhat was for the best i l>ut we ^u-e ojiponents bold enough to ejiaige the ex- Premier with any wilful w.iste of public money, much less a-.iy roirupt a])i)licatioii of funds for the benefit of himself or his friends. Hi! may have, in the eyes of his opponents, made mistakes — who in this frail world has not -Ijut no ijon. gentleman in this ParUainent has ever treated, as befoi'e .stated, when ai-gument j ventured to throw any discredit i.,'Oii 86 him in tiie direction I havo inace ; but my hon. friend indicates as a suitable epitaph the old exploded election stories, "Steel rails," "Kaministiquia," itc, etc. Let me remind him that whenever he shall need such inscriptions for liis leaders, he will have a very lengthy list of suggestive transactions from which he may select most appropri- ately. For one we might inscribe uufler heraldic devices "Only iplO.OOO more." "These hands ai'e clean." For another, who controls the railways of this country, and who is the prime mover in this Syndicate, we might find some very appro- priate ones, but I will leave the hon. gentleman from Londonderry himself to make the selection, because, from the record of his earlier years in Nova Scotia, he could select one much moi'e ai)pr'"- priate than any I wish to .suggest, Of my hon. friend himrelf, whose ketsn satire may b'^ at times vv "ongly directed, I cannot make any unfavorable refer- ence. His talents and energy, employed so per-sistently in su])port of this Tory Government have been to it of invalu- able service. He has, no doubt, misled his friend.s by cont'ibuting to his party a inoral strength and a higher status — attributes so much needed — and af ;er he shall have enjoyed the sweets of office, for which he is so well fitted, and i-etired to reflect over past exploits, I hope his political epitaph may be nothing worse than that proposed for an emi- nent Irish Statesman, and written by one ■who was a countryman and contemporary of him, from whom both he and I claim a eonunon ancestry : — " Here lies our goud statoBinan, whose genius was such Wt! Bcarcely cun praiae it or blame it too much, Wlio, born for the uiiiver^UiiiiiSii' 87 and I claim whose genius the tlaiigera whicli beset tliem from the exactions and tyranny of tlieir royal miiHtfci-^ : — "Ruin sci/, ) Uioa, ruthless kins:! Confusion on tliy banners wait, Till*' fjinn'd l)y oonqiiust's crin\M(iu wing, Tiiey tnook tlw air with idhs »tato. HelTi nor hauherii's twinteil ma'l, Nor e'on thy virtiio-i, tyrant, all ill avail To save thy Hecrefc soul from nightly foara, From I'amhria'a our^e, from Cambria's tears ! " If " Canada" he sulistituted for Cambria tho Miniilitude will ix:! niuro cunipiett?' I desire ajjain to iipolo^izo, hon. gentloinen, for so long claiuiing your attention, and to express wy gratitude for thu extraor- dinary [)iitiouce ami kindness wliicli have been at this late hour and stage of tin- debate extended to nie. I am aware tin all around me are gentlemen in wealth, in political experit^iice, in i/iHuen.e and talent vastly my superiors, and many of ■whose o[uaionsI am too feebly endeavoring to controvcirt. If 1 have apoken, at times, too warmly, my words havt; only inciicated my feelings. I have s|)oken f roui no par- tizan stand |ioint. Tiie obligations to f,. party {)alo before ol)ligations to one's country. Cauada is the land of my birth; in it I hope to live and expect to die, and all through the course of this debate I have wi.-ihed for the power and eloquence of my hon. friend from Cuml-erland, wlio so wel; " commauJs the ap[)lause of a listening Senate," or the free and fluent tongue of !;he hon. gentleman from ilicli- raond, .so silent: now on thi ucstiou, whose 3i)eeche.s in his earlier provincial career in defence of popida;- rights I used to read wit!) pleasure ; or the advantages of many otlier gentlemen around, v/hose pobent utterances are so oftc-u lieard iu this Chamber, and then I might .show more forcibly to the people's repnisenta- tives the hideous character of this j)ropo- sitiou in all its naked deformity, and 1 would more eliectividy point out tliat if hon. getitle'.iien hope to maintain a l)ropcr respect for the functions and rights, and usefulress of this Chandjer, esp'X'ially in guarding provincial rights ; if they wish to retain for their Goverument a place iu tlie heai-ts and ati'ectious of tiie Canadian people; if they desire to preserve the loy- alty of those who toil for daily bread while tho favored few are clothed in fine linen and fare sumptuously ; if th<\y wish to prcHorve tlie welfare and promote the prosjairity of the people of ('anada.tiicy will |>iuat) before they irrevocably ratify an act so iujudieiouH and dangerous in its residts to the beat interests of our common country. February ii^th, ISSl. Mr. BURPEE (.St. John), said : I notice that in all the speeche.s made from the otiier side of the House, one promi- nent assertiou is invariably made, and that is to charge the late Government witfi the deju'e.ssion which existcil from I87() to 1878. They also claim that by their restoration to power, and by the operations of the Natioual Policy, pro.s- perity w.is restored to tiic country. Now, when it is knosvn, that from Confedera- tion down to 1873-74, the country had .seven or eight years of great prosperity, — that every industry of tiie country — in- cluding that of agriculture, was prosper- ous and profitable ; that the iu^ oris of th(! country liad grown from $73,.")00,000 to $l2y,OnU,()00 ; that our exports had in- creased froi- .«')7.000,00l) to ujiwards of .S9l),0()0,U0;. , that tho levenue of the ciountry had increased from !#li5,.'")()(),000 to $2f,50l),0r;t) ; and that on exfieaditin-o had al.so increased from fSl;},5t)L>,00() to $•24,500,000 ; when it was known thiit all tlieae rapid increases took place during these yeai's of prosperity, w(> might be sure that when a (iepression did come, it would tax the peojjle of the country to the utmo.st, and be felt very severely throughout tiie whole Dominion. De- pressions are certain to follow periods of prosperity. I might call the attention of tho hon. gcutlcnren opposite to tlie de- )>i'essiou tJiat existed between 1858 and 1804, in all parts of this country. In old Canada there were deficits there of $12,1.')0,000, interest was paid at the rate of 8 per cent., and her bonds were .selling at 75c. on the dollar. It was under Toiy rule that this great d(pression existed with this' great failing oil' in the revenue. We have had periods of depression in the past, and we will have them again. The ''.''US 88 n Ctf»\<'rininMit iiro inii-siiiiij; tlio miiih- ooiirsc Jiow thiit llicy Jill l>etw»!eii 1H()H mimI 1H7.">. Tlmy iim not only imnoaHing our Rt'Vfiiuo l>y inciviininj? the tn.\iiti<)ii, Imt tlmy uie iiint'iiHiiig tlie fxpfmliftirt' to mi wnoruKMis extent. A« w»' gi> on iii(UcaHin>,' otu- ••xptiulituie and oiii- taxation, tli«i rwHiiIt will lio )»y-niul l>yi! timt wlitn anotlier jKiiioii of (lo|)i'«'8hiuii conies, as uom*; it "iinr'ly will, we hIuiII liuve otlun (leticits litixer than tliose wJiiih laive already tal«'n place. When the lato Goveiiinieiit oanie into power they assnintMl a deht whieh necessi- tated a provision for nearly .* I .OOLSOOO of a<* per cent. Iron goods depreciated in value from il'2 to fti per tf)n. Hardware depreciated some •"5.") per cent. Cotton and woollens dtpreciateil largely, and during th(!se tlne<* years the de])reciation was so hirge that the loss to the Tlcveaue in conseipience was eipial to .*4,. ■$()(!, 001 1. That estimate w,is made by exjiorienced imjiorters hased o!i careftd data. Tliat sum would have mon^ tiam paid the deficit that took jilace during these three years of .*4,100,t)(iO under the late (rovernment. If we t.ako into con- sideration that decrease in the Revenue, and uLsi) the enol•nu>u.^ burdens assiinied hy the lat<; (Jov^ernment as a legacy from their piedt^Mssors, is it any wonder that these deticits occurred .' The iiou. Finance Minister refern d in his spjieiHi to his liaving left the coinitry in lt>7.'j in a pi"osperouscuring tin; year ending •lune .■»(), ISSij, the e\ci^^s of our exports of hunber, animals and their products, and gi'ain, over our exports fur the year 187!', was Sl(),0(U),()U(l ; and during' the .six months ending Docember 31, 18H0, oui- exports of these same i)ro(Uuitions exceeded our exports for the six months ending December ;]1, 1S70, i)y .■i;l(),O0(),O()U more, so that during these eighteen months, .f'20,0()0,0l)() worth of lumber and ugri- cul'iural products were sold in the markets of the I'niti.'d States and (Jreat Jiritain, and that amount of cash came into this country, as the follow ing table wi'I show: They only deal with the Kxports i>f Canadian produce. KXPOKTS l.«l' rui; I'liODI CK Ol' canvda. IS7!). 1SS0. Lumber Kxporteil !e!i:».'Jt)l, Will. IO.;V)4..'>07 Annn.il" i theiiprodaotsU, l()0,(U»t. 17,iil>7..''>77 -A ;riL-Hltiiivil [.ro.lacts. , . !!».iii.S.4U 4. •.'•2,2;t-l.,;28 ! .'S4(i,!IJ)0 .V27. W;.7r.li,4l2 flip the Ki\ mmrlis cnilin^' iJoceiiibc ill, 1879 j ami ISSO, uoiii|jaruib 1. 1S7U. 18S0. , Lumber .*10,lG!»,(iSO. J7 "ilio.-iS'i • AnunalB.V thc"ii-(irodu'^tslO,7'i4,01"i. I'A,- t5!s63 Agi-n;iiltiiiiil j,>ro.Uict», .14,780.903, 13,K;>(),S8» " - 5!.35,()81,.507 45,i5.5ti,028 Those enormous exports of the production of the foiest and the field, have put a ..•■ * |$S| 89 viisi. aiuoiint of iiniiieT intu cicciilation and given i.'ir iiuiiiiifnotofns an iiicmiiH^nl trade hIho. J ilo not wIhIi to ignoi-e the fact tliiit our manufacturing indnstiiuH con- I trilmti' ' iij,'«!ly to tin- prosperity of tliiHor I any cllnr country wIh-M! they <'\ist, Init I contend tlmt undtT a llcMniie Tarill, v^ith th« (ixi!('pti0 into the Dominion during th(! jmst eighteen months, with the previous tliree or four years ot iloprcssiou when llnie was a d(!erease in those eNj)or(s of over $Jf),()UU,OUO. When we eonsitkjr these large exports, 1 lliink we find in them an explanation of tln^ pnispei-jty we now enjoy, though vhey are in no way henelitteil by the National Policy, hut liampered by taxation. Thent^t imn-ease in the (exports of 1880 !!.■< compared with those of 1K71I ■was, of hunher, S.'},n'.t:}^0()() : of animals and th(!ir jtroduets, *.S,.'')()7,000 : of agri cultural produtie, $2,700.1100, making in round numheis *1 0,000,000. To show, Mr, Sp(!akcr, how ntu" ex|)orts of" farm produce have increased in grain alone, in the yeara, viz : Imported, llxiiortu). IxcrtSHof Kxports. 1877— 1!»,'2.V.>,S47 Ul.ToT.S;: »i,MIS,(>;«) limh. l878-lH.;«:},8(i4 •-'8,701, or.4 1 ),;^i:i,(v.i(H,iisi,. 1879 -17.;i02,248 t»!»,<>:i.').or)it l.>,tiri2.s| 1 }.usli. 1880—1 ."1,505,0 14 ;W,tl61,84!l 2!,40«,8;jr) Imtih. showing an excess of exports over imjiorls of 17,000,000 bushels of giaiu during (he last four yeai-s, of wJiich nearly one-hall was in last year. The excess of exports of wheat la .( year was. 0,HS!J,000 busliel.s; of barley, 7,'J-G,000 bushels ; and in other grains, 0,408,000 bushels. Thc>i, Mr. S»;.ieukcr, in anolln;r way to sliow how our production of grain lias increased, i may say that in wheat and wheat tlour our production was less in the year 1H77 than our consumption by 2.403,000 bushels, lint in 1.S78 it increased, A;c., as will be seen ; PiMibiotion. t'onmniiptioa. I'.ii.«li-lt. 1877 •.'0,7:»i;.oa7 i.'3.i:iS,!W8 .1. lirit. ■J,4():i.'»()0 1878 -.^.SIH.SICJ •Jl.r.'s.s.M) niirvlii».:<.tW.rt41.' 1871» ;JO,7INl,i;»7 -'4,47 1 .'iOO " ii,W4,;»i7 1880- ;il,(iri-.',-i!»4 •.'4,77-'.HtHI " ti.«it8».494 showing a surplus for the la>( three UNirs ot our prodiirlioH of wheat, to 1R74, our increased t xpendit\ire followed closely tipon our revenue, and trom the stftt«!ment of the lion. I'inancc Miuistei\ as to the ex))*' idituru of iH.sl and the e.stinialcd expMiditure of IS82, the same jirocess i.-, goiii- on now under the 'lew Mystem of taxation by the sitnte f^ovrrn- meiit. .\s onr i-eveuue and expenditure inci'eaM's, our delit increas<'s alsi*. .-uid if the Estimates of 1 SS-J me . ;irricd out, (mr debt will reach .*!l.Sl,000,'.'OO, which is eijual to about ^I.^.-IO per liend of the ]iopiiliitiou. .Mr. Speaker, wit'j this in- creasing ixp'tiditure going on y<'ar aftt-r year, and this growing debt, we sliaU find when the times change, as they suri'ly will —when the erisis comes — •when ui\ end comes to the spoculaLivc and ex- travagant expenditures ^low w'oing on. w(i will be driven into the same depj'fsscd condition as w- were in IS7ii-7-8, and we willexpeiieiu'eiletlcits immi'a.stirably liii'ger than any we have had since ( 'onfeder.ition. Th ■ 'xpenditurcs in the North West ,jre assuming innneiise pi-op(.rtioiis. Au'dnJ- ing to ciie sta.tcmcuts made and tiie Esti- mates brought down, the expehditurc on the Indian service will reach !^H(iO,00() this year. On lookini; overthe PcMic Accmmta for several ycar.s back, 1 llnd that i'l^v the- items of the North-West Mounted I'olice. Indians, Dominion [.amis, I^awson route and Dominion Forces, our e\penditure each vear was as follows: In 1871, •i»7n, !?7;)5.000 ; in 1874, >!l,0r)2.000 ; in 1875, *l.lill,OO0: in lS7t;, ?5lJ70,000; in 1877, !^1,12-!,000: in 1878, S080,ono ; iu 1879,^1,100,000; in 1880. .><1,.50(),0()() : making a total expenditure iov lliose ser- vices, in ten years, of ?»1 1 ,7'.»:V-'""('. (;'1h1 still incicas!'ig), that the North-VVe.st ;ind Manitoba received out of the Consoli- dated Fund since tlu^ year 1871. Mr. Speaker, tht; Hon, Minister of Finance referred to some statomeuts ij^ previous %* ^>. 'V* IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-S) „,, ^.- .^ A >>^ " ■ I 1.0 32 £ Vk I.I Ui 2.5 III 1.8 1.25 1.4 J4 ^ 6" — ^ '/I WW '^ ■> >^. ^^ '^ /i o / Photographic Sciences Corporation 23 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, NY. M580 (716) 872-450:j '/. vV «v 90 speeches about tlie charges that their policy would lueak up tlie Union of the Provinces. 1 do not believe therf is any danger of lireaking up the Union. Our people nre a,n enterj)rising people, ■who will be found equal to almost any emergen'/. Our country will havo times of prosperity as well as times of depres- sion. I liave faith 'uiough in, the country to believe there is no danger of breaking lip Confederation, but what a Government havo most particularly to guard against is keeping our people from being discon- tented. The policy of the present Gov- ernment is not one calculated to make the different Provinces contented ; i is not such a policy as was promised at the time the Confr deration was formed. Tiien it was understood , especially by the Jlaritime Provinces , that their taxes would not be increased, now they are more than doubled In that respect those Provinces are very mnch disappointed. They are discontent- ed at the largely increased expenditure made and going on in the western part of the Dominion, and with their trade re- lations with the Western Provinces. They were led to believe that their manufac- tures would increase rapidly, that they ■would have a large export as well as im- port trade bet^^een these Provinces. To- day, however, their exports are not much larger than they were before Confeden'*^ion, while their imporis are excessively large, several millions annually, and increased by the operations of the National Policy. The Hon. Finance Minister in referring to the taxation of the different Provinces under present Tariff, ti'ying to show there was no increase particularly to tlie Lower Provinces, unfortunately compared the years 1879-1880, as it is well known the present tariff was in operation during a part of 1879, the comparison between those two yeai's was therefore an unfair one. The lion, member for Niagara i-eferred to tlie percentage of duties collect- ed in New Brunswick in 1877, being 28 per cent., and to-day 21^ per cent. 8lio\ving a decrease. There is an error in the retui Ub for the yeai* 1877. The duty on imports in 1877 for New Brun.swick was 15| pt^r cent, instead of 28 per cent,; and die |)er- centage of duty in 1880 is 21| percent, or a 6 per cent, increase instead of a reduc- tion. To show more fully the nature of the trade in the different Provinces and the taxation, let u:- compare Ontario and Quebec with Nova Scoti-)ii)areil the ^prices of cotton gondu iii Canada with those in the United States. Such is not a pro per coinpari»ou. The duty on cottttn goods ('onung into tlie United States is equal to 50 or (iO per cent. It would V>e very Btrange if ('anada could not produce cottons as cheaply under thewe circumstances, as such a hiyhiy protected country as the States. No argument in fovour of the cheapness of cottons in 'Canada was a[)plicaljle by a comparison of pric"s with these sold in the United States manut'acturieB muler a highly "protected tariff. Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to know on what princi|>le «e admit machinery of all kinds for the manufac- ture of cotton and woollen goods free of duty, and tax all other manufactures so heavily. In addition, we admit the raw materialo and dye stuffs all free. Last year the protitsof the cotton manufacturers were from 30 to 40 per cent on the manufactured article. They arc enjoying enormous protection, and declaiing profits equal 10 40 per cent per ainnim.- lJnd< r these circumstances, the quest ion arises wliy cotton and woollen manu- facturers should Ije so highly protected and have al! machinery free, while* much le«s aid is given to other industries strug- gling for exi„tence. Why should not tla- carriage majuifac^tnrers, the hoot and shoe manufacturers, the foundry laisiness, the furniture manufacturers, the agricultural iijqdcnients makers, the sewing machine makers, iVc, itc, hive ttieir machinery free also? 1 h.ivi! ol.tained statistics from tlipsc manufacturers, ami 1 tiud the following couqiarison under the Tariff of 1878 and 1879, as to increased taxation. Carriagt; manufacturers, a tax on maciiin- ei-y increased from lt» to 2.") ]icr cent.; mati-rials used lor mauufactuiing, in- creaied from 13i ti 23 per cent.; hoots and shoes, manufacturing machinery in creased from 10 to -T) jicr cent.; materials from 10 to 1 '^ per cent.; foundry mai^hinery from 10 to 2!) per cent.; materials xrom4i to 14.{ per fi'ut.; furnitun! manufactun^rs machinery from 10 to 25 per cent.; materials from 5 A to 8 A per cent.; agricul- tural implement makers' machinery from 10 to 2') per cent.; materials from 6.', to 16 per cent. The same applies to scwiug ntachine niakeis, nnisical iastiument makers, itc. Nail manufacturersmachinerv is increased from 10 to 25 per cent.: raw material from *JJ to L'O pei' cent. These increases of duty on th<< raw materials and machinery used for manufacturing are equivalent to the aect to the lumber Vmsiness, the Finance ^Minister stated the increased taxation on this iu dustry by the ])resent Tarifi' was only about one per cent. I, Sir, have taken jiains to asceitain the increased rate of duty on supplies used iii lumbering, more particularly in New liruiuswick, .tnd I tind, on careful comparison, the increase is from 10^ to 21.' per cent., an increase tax of 11 per cent. This industry ]ias an estiuuited cai)ital in Canada of 1^100,000,000, its exports and c<)n.si*m[..tion reach the enormous sum of $;)0.000,nOO annually on an average. 'I'he i^ost of labour in this lumljer trade is estiniated at or) per cent, of i\n' value of the lumber. All this shows that this is an industry very lucrative to the country, and which Rhouid not iiave been subjected to such additional taxation. It .so tluctuatny, that very few engaged in it for a series of years make fortumw, Init the country bencjfits as it gives (employment to "^4,000 of our men and 8U|)))orts over tOO,000 of the people of (.'anada. This caliulaiion has been carefully made by some of the most ex])(U-ienceil lun^bennen in the country, and 1 believe the .Finance Minister will ti!id it peitoctly c.;^r^v.l The Member for Montreal (Mr. (Jour.'iol,) spok(e of tlu! ship|)ing trade, saying the Tariff in regard to the shij)ping intci'cst was perfectly satisfactory. I know, Sir, that it has nftt proved so to the sliip- buihlers in New i>runs\vick. A number of the most exi)erienced shipbuildi^s in New Brunswick submitted to the Finance Minister an estimate of the taxation under the new TariH at •fl.SJ per ten as compared with bOc. before. This 1 pre- ^ ffH^fmK^ ^mmrwm..i.i . nni.iimiii^ 9:1 iiflustrv lias smnc- includes so-.ne articles mftiuifiictured were indebtedin Great Britain, ax tber in th»' coimtrv. But I maintain, luul so will were unal>l(! to hold them in thpir owin the t-ountrv and shi[tljnilders,tliHt whether name any longer. I never hoard that tiie jmxlucts of the country be included argument before, and I believe there ia or not, the !ie\v TuriH' raises their juices i»otiiing in it. The shipbuilders and to an enualitv witli ttte artieh's iuiportod. sliipowners in the Maritime Provinces,. It is a sound rule of ])oliti(;til economy own and control their shipiiing almost that under protection prices will increase j exclusively, and the exports or sale of in proportion to the duties on the imports, i t^hip form only a mite of what is built. In IH*').") the duty per ton on ship materials It is rare indeed that ships built with ub w:,s '''io. per toil, in IS7.'5 it was (iOc. per are not owned by a large inimber of ton, and in IH7S, SUc. per ton, and in 1 persons who can afford to hold their lH7i', nc.'spting the estimate as prepared i shares. The result would be in case of bv the shipbuilders which I lielieve to be : «,'reat depression, the jjarties who built correct, it was at least iPl.H.'i j)er ton. I ! and owned these ships wonld not sacrifice- believe the new regulations as todrawback | or sell at unremunerative prices. In that made last yeai- are satisfacKuy so far year the shi|)piug that was r.olfl realized as the mode of its pavment goes. , sonu^tlung like l|40.00 per ton, which But the Hhii>l»uilders t;«mi>lain that it is ' would not have been the price if it had not larj/e enough, and does not nuike U[) ! been transferred under mortgage to other what they have to pay in addition to that i parties. Again the shipping sold in le\ led bv thcTanffof 1878. Mr. Speaker ■ previous years will answer the argument to show the ]>rv .sent condition of that in- : used by the Finance Minister, for ex- dustrv and how it has declined of late, I | ample, in 137t) we exported shipping to will submit some statistics M-ith regard to ' the amount of $2,189,270; in 1877, the Maritime Provinces, as thev are so j .$1,576,244 ; in 1878, $1,218,145; in directly interested. Tiie tonnage of ships, ' U<7{t, $529,824 ; 1880, $4(54,327. Thi» built in Nova Scotia and New P»run8wick : sliows that there has been a great falling I off under the new Tariff, even with the \ew Rrni»wi«k ^^^ ships we built for sale. Sir, the increased tHxation of 1870 does very much militate against this industry in the Lower Pix)vinceB. We might bring a parallel case to show the nature of in- creased taxation on the shipping interest* I If we go to the United States we find I that in 18CG, 75 per cent of their carrying trade was done on their own vessels ; in 1870, it was 35 per eent ; in 1880 it was only 1 7 per cent., .showing that the carry. ing trade of that country has almost en. tlrely gone out of its hands. High taxa*' Minister ; tion has driven its shi')8 from the sea. was : Nov* Scotin 187'2 Built ,V2,882 tont 1873 1874 1875 187t) 1877 1878 187J» IK80 (>3,030 74.769 84.800 69,087 50,530 47,639 50,97R 38,li!r>'.J Built :{G,46.'i tooa " 42,701 •• " 4«.«83 " " 47,966 " " 38,794 " " 33,115 " " 26,306 " " 32,135 '• " 14,528 " Sfieaker, trade in shows that the ship the liower Prov- This, Mr btiilding inces is now reduced to the smal- lefci proportions known since the vear 1830, ~" The Fijiance 'also referred to the exj)orts of shipping, | Sir, with regard to manufactured goods and said that the increase in the exports I "we do not find that fche groat inciease in 0 103,296 , »0 3.38 CarriaHes 85.«34 135.726 1.37,443 OordRRe 227,9ir, 192,646 160.029 n8 manufactured 7,264,818 6,528.588 7,863.004 Crindslones 18,7.52 16,457 11,750 Gypsum (iroun4 16,488 65,830 77.397 iTaUandCaps 1,053,J65 9.38,.'583 968,531 India Rubber, manufactmeil 249,061 237,111 466,319 Machinery 516,0.35 427,154 507.942 IroD, Hardware, &•> 8,506,578 7, 108,978 10,039,23!) Miscellaneoua 4,561,149 4,763,878 4,210,521 So we might go on with many other articles and show that the importation of goods into the country is not stopped by putting on Urge taxation. The same results show by the returns in the Canada Oazttte for six months. IMPOKTS LKADING AKTII'LIMI, Value. Duty. CottoB Goods Imp. 188017.824,264 $1,624 684 do 4 ye»r „ .3,948,373 866,332 "Woollen Goods „ ,, 6,296,709 1.638,894 do i year „ „ 4,.115.385 1,161.9.37 Graia and Flour ,, ,, l,753,2:i7 2.59,589 do i year ,, „ 906 0.5'2 130,000 €oM981, 179 tons,, „ 2,748,951 .505 610 do i year „ „ 2,046,127 328,025 Iron&sceelgoods,. „ 6 924,993 1,367,691 do i year „ „ 3,939,4.30 770,160 These statistics show th.at Avith ollthe Protective Taritl'you can put on a country will not have the etfoct of decreasing importation, if the country is prosperous. The following figures show the increases which have taken place in the imports by the United States of British gooda in 1880 as compared with 1879 : Cotton % 10,001,0.56 Flax 8,077.038 Glassware 2,000,000 Irou and .Steel 44,271,972 Le.ither 4,648, 179 Silk mamifachire 8,175,292 Sugars 6.896485 I in manufactures 7,075,806 Tobacco 1,. 590,000 • Woolen goods 28,25i,697 Zinc .S,459,000 Tliese figure.'? show that what is true of Canada under a protective system has been demonstrated by the experience of the United States. Now with regaid to the sugar question, tii&. following table will enable us to ex- plain the o))eraiions of the Tariff on this industry for the years 1878 and 1880. lbs. No. 13 and ab.ve 93,420,878 9 to 13 10,624,3j6 Below 9 1, 108,065 Melado 16.894 Ssyrups, Ac 3,711,747 ; 108,951,920 Lbs. Above 14., 18,885, 1 50 9 to 14 .56,40.3,251 Below 9 30,690,925 Melado 7,639,332 Syfup, 4c 3,228,.392 110,847,050 1878 IMPORTS Value Duty. $5,419,715 S2,289,840 517,528 209,066 44,825 16,749 438 173 115,101 61,974 6.097,677 2,567,802 1880 IMPOIiTS Value. Di,ty. $ 824.887 $ 477,.564 1,847,205 977,188 958, .364 440,963 180,635 82,8.38 93,196 48,139 3,904,287 2,026,692 » m ' . !« ^. " --~™».j, mmmm msmsssffE^Birrr^'rrasTr: -"TTTT 95 Mr. S{)eak'>»', in tliis cahvilation if we add the incrtmsod quantity imported in 18B0, to the imports of 1878, and inaintain the name proportion of qualities ne 1878, the application of 1878 tixriff wouid produce a i-evenuo of $2,753,941, whereas theReve- nue of 1880 is only $2,026,692, thus showing conclusively aloss to the Revenue under the operations of the present Tariff on the imports of 1880 of !f;728,249. Now with regard to the taxation on sugar, I have made analysis of the prices in New York and Montreal for the twelve months ending in June Ina*:. I received a regular weekly circular from a large sugar house in New York, showing the prices of thrnr sugar iu bond for each week during that i)eriod. I took the average from these circulars. J Hnd that for the year the average is $6.13 i>er hundred pounds, adding the duty according to theTarifi'of 1878, that is $2.53, and we have $8.66. I make 1;he average for Montreal during the same period five cents less per hun- dred pounds than the Minister tjf Finance t'lat is $9,70. Deducting $8.66 • from $9.70, we have $1.04, which represents the additional taxation on every hundred pounds of granulated sugar sold in the Dominion under the new Tariff. So far as Montreal is concerned, as it is close to the refiners and the oost of carriage is 8 nail the amount will not, perhaps, be { qhite so large, but for othw parti of the Dominion the cost of carriage will be greater than from New York. Last summer the carriage of sugar from Mcrti- treal to St. John cost 3.5 cents jior one hundred pounds, while from New York to St. John it was only 15 to 20 cents per one hundred pounds. That rate would also apply to the western part of Canada, to Nova Scotia and Prinee Edwards, Island. Therefore, it ption that the excess largest portion of the Dominion would mmo is a fair presum- of change on the consumers in the than effect what consumed in the city of Montreal I think the compari^n is a correct one, and it shows that $1.04 per one hundred pounds is the additional taxation in sugar consumed in Canada, giving a loss to the Revenue as compared with the old Tariff of $726,245. The diversion of trade caused by the operation of ihe tefining business, effects to a great extent the shipping interest that was i-e- ferred to by the Minister of Finance. Sugar, whether imported raw or refined, has to pay the freight, and has it is mostly brought to Montreal the freight is collect- ed there. The trade has been diverted almost entirely from the Lower Provinces and Ontario to Montreal, as will appear by the following statement : IMPORTS. OF SUGAR PER PROVINCES, 1878- f 880. 1S78. 1880. Ontarii>. Lka. Value. Duty. Lbs. Value. Duty. Abore 13 43,446,523 2,804,713 1,185,(544 6,309,970 277,534 160,235 9tol3 7,968,682 389,926 157,248 8,988,126 342 346 170,115 Belcw 9 97,0.34 4,092 1,508 720,172 27,509 11,854 Melado, &c 15,249 398 157 3,445 153 59 Cane Juice, &o 2,487,157 76,318 34,624 2,277,502 86,263 34,114 59,014,645 $3,275,447 11,379,18' 18,299,215 1703,805 $376,477 *-ivJj# 1 • 96 IM FORTS, -Cu«<;/iM''/. 13 27.5.i4..Ul l,:.S.»,47<; (JTl.KI-J 3,041.571 r-'7,5:«l 75,05.'t 1, tol.'{ »,8--'«.iy4 S7,yo:< .•ir).«>»7 42,640.070 l,.S5'.>,2I2 725,5;V_' Moi„w » a70,2.V.' 38,707 1 4,3-'8 2<),472,30(i tfU,.-.2:< 421, 7I«^ >l.l«rto. *o 7,5.44,482 170,087 82,0fi.'V ( VneJaice, *c I,fl4,l*:i 28,67;i •.''.SOT 78'i,(i:<0 18,425 !0,:i32- .•; ;,',. -:>.;';,■ ■'"■• ■. ■-:;•' ■' l.JHn.UWve 7,171,r2l 4<)8,102 173.742 4.,-)l3,4.-.7 l«I,2.->7 101,374 n u i;{ (;S2,4«(i 33,20.". 13, I2(» 3,«48, 176 113, 747 «1,485 H»l„w« ;!(i,mi7 l.fi.')3 o8it 419,070 ia,(K)2 «,l»l MeUao, *c 15 I 81,405 1,39.% 724 fane Jnice, Ac 74, |19t,.-il8 8,(il4,:<08 $290,140 $170,014 ,\>ic HninoH'klf. ' ''''-■-■' '■ '' ^ • ' ■ ' • > ■ '■ ■■•'' •- ••■■•^'- '• .. ■■'"' 13 and »V,ove «,702,««(; 387,7«»l Ifi3,tt67 3,233,003 142,828 82,320- » to f! 7,0.W 2»l I2«) 704.81 1 24,4rt.-> 12,02tf Below !t 1,512 78 87 8,82o 30« in« M.Udo.Ac 1,630 39 ' 1« CaneJmoe, Ac 17. #25 755 299 3,272 18.'. 61 ♦(,730,491 *; 88,924 $164,435 3,949,9(il «S167,784 ;3!93,14;^- /■ I do not iiiteiul to take ufi the tiino ot'l necesBitated by the iiicreuuetl t'xj)enditure tlic itouso iiay longer. 1 think I have [ will produce before many yoars deficits shown conclusively that tlu; Taritt" larger than tho»i! we had in l^riS and' has not operated in the inteiests of the | I8tj4. people, and that the increase of taxation,, • '-; ■/^ f . ' /*- Y.\\ 75,03» 212 7'25,53^ V23 421,71i»- 987 8-.',055 425 10,. -{Si 77811, H14, 691 237 101,574 747 «1,485 1)52 8,19i 395 724 89 40' 140 $170,014 328 82,320- 4«.1 12,62t» aort 13« 185 61 784 $93,14;5 t'xpenclituft! .'oars deficits