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Lorsque le document est trop grand pour dtre reproduit en un seul cliche, ii est filrn^ d partir de Tangle sup^rieur gauche, de gauche d droits, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'imagea n^cessaira. Les diagrammes suivants illusvrent It m^thoda. 12 3 22X 1 2 3 4 S 6 7-' s.C"^ SPEECH OF C. F. MoISAAC, M.P. ON THE KEIMEDT^L 13ILL OTTAWA, TL;E.SDAY, 17tii .MAllCJl, 180(1 > ( Ui: McISAAC. Mr. Speaker, the hou. mem- ber for Pictou (Sir Cli=irlos Ilibbert Tupper) tbls afternoon in tbe course of bis speecli made some allusions to myself and tbe bon. member for Guysboro' (Mr. Fraser), and tbe election wbicb took place in Antigouisb last year. I desire to refer to that at tbe outset. A little less than a yea- ago a contest took place in Uie county Avbicli I bavo tlie hon- our to represent in this House. During tb.it contest tbe bon. menibor for Pictou conduct- ed tbe campaign on beball' of tbe (Jovern- ment. He was then Minister of Justice, and claimed credit because the Government had passed tbe remedial order. He made the Manitoba school question the para- mount Issue before tbe electors of Antlgo- nisb on that occasion. The bon. gentleman stated this afternoon that the bon. mem- ber*for Guysboro", iu bis presence and iu niy'nreseuee. while tbe three of us were on the public platform, promised that be wQuld Iu this House support tbe policy oi remedial legislation. I am here, Sir, to give a most emphatic denial to that state- ment of tbe hou. member for Pictou. I tell him, and I tell you and the members of this House, that tbo bon. member for Guysboro' did not on that occasion make such a pledge. If be refers to the meeting which took place iu the court-house in Antigouisb on tbe (ith .\pril, ISt).')— and that is the only occasion ou which the hou. member for Pictou, the hou. number for Guysboro' and I addressed a meeting together during tlic whole cam- paign, so that he cannot have reference to any other— I tell this House that not only did the hon. member for Guysboro' not pledge himself in favour of remedial 1 i^'a- tion, but the bon. Minister of Justice did not say then that he would vote for it him- self. Furtlier, I say, and I am going to prove it, tiiat the hou. member for Pietou on that occasion did not dare to state, though I eballenged h!m to do so before the electors of Antigouisb, that j*5i^ .^M, f /^ iho policy of this GovcrnriKnit was to In- tiddiici' niuciliiil Icirislat'.on inid i)l!ic(> it before Parliaiuont, Mnnitoba failing; to emu- ply Willi Ilio rcincdial onli'V. Tlic Miiiistor of" Justice was iu tlie county for two weeks, mill for the lirst week, tliouj.'li addressing some SIX or seven inet'tinns, iiicludin;.'; the one I liave referred to, he did iiol dare to tell tlie electors of Anli Miiish that tlie Gov- ornmeut would hitrodm-e remedial legis- lation as their iMilicy if .Maiiifol);! failed to comply witli the remedial order. 1 am noi here to explain wiiy lie was so slow in do- in.i,' it. I do not know whetlier it was or was not the policy of the (iovernment a1 that lime, but I can stale as a matter of fact, that it was one week after he came Into thi> county bef(n-e he deolared liie posi- tion of tlie (iovernment. It may liave been that it was because of the fact tliat in llal- ilimatid, ;it tlie same time, an eleetioii was jTOiuf? on, a member of this Government run- niiii,' I'or eleetioii and claimiuf; credit in that county because the GovernnH'iit were stand- inj,' by the coustitntiou, and althou,i,'h they weiH' "compidled to issue tlie remedial order, they were not bound to ko further, and that It was not necessarily the policy of the Government to intrilinister of ,Iustice states that the hon. member for Guysboro' said he would pledge himself to vote in this House for remedial leiiislation the hongeiith-mau liimse" ' I not, alMioujrh challen.iiea two or tliree i mies to do so. say that it was tlie settled policy of the Gove ■uinent to introduce remedial legislation. :Maniioba failing to comply. I am going to put on the stand to ))rove my statement a witness the hon. member for IMctou will not dare to discredit, one of his best friends and oue who did more to reduce my major- ity in Antigonish. aye, ten tini(>s more than tlie hon. member, though he was there two weeks. The witness to which I refer is the Anti- gonisli " Casket." published in the town of Antigonish. It is a Catholic paper, profess- ing to be non-partisan in politics. That paper supported the (Government candidate and opposed me. at least, during the latter portion of the campaign. Mr. McDOUGALL. That is not true. Mr. McISAAC. What is not true ? Mr. McDOUGALL. The editor is not a Conservative. Mr. McISAAC. Who is talking about the editor ? Mr. McDOUGALL. I am talking now about the editor. Mr. McISAAC. I never said a word about the editor. I am talking aliout the paper. I know what I am talking about, and the hon. gentleman need not interrujit ine. I would like to put a question to the hon. member for Plctou. Perhaps the member for Cape Breton (Mr. McDougall) may be able to an- swer it for liim. r>oes he mean tliat the statements published by the " Casket " In re- ference to that cami)aigii .are or are not true'.' Did the '• Cask(>t " tell the truth la r(latio!i to the Antigonish election? Mr. McDOUGALL. What is the ques- tion ? Mr. McISAAC. Is the "Casket" a truthful paper '! Now, rememlier 1 stated that the ex-Minister was a whole week In the county holding meetings before lie de- clared v.iiat the jiolicy of the (iovernment was. I said I would imt on the witness stand the " Casket " to substantiate my assertions. That paper is one tliey will not dare to dis- credit. It opposed me during the last cam- ])aign. This is what the editor, Mr. Wall, says, over his own signature : Wben doubt was thrown on the question as to whether the Government was on constitutional principles bound by its action in issuing the remedial order, to introduce remedial legislation in Parliament as a Government measure in the event of Manitoba's failure to comply with that order, I saw the reasonableness of that doubt and promptly notified the readers of " The Casket " of its existence, as I had previously made the statement absolutely that tLey were so bound. When Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper, Minister o£ Justice, visited the county, I watched his public utterances tor an authoritative statement that remedial legislation, Manitoba failing to grant It, would be introduced and carried forward as a Government measure. I noted with some dis- satisfaction that in his first public speech In the town he made no such statement. I refused, until such authoritative statement should liave been made by the Minister, to advise " The Casket's " readers to support the Government candidate ; and, knowing the ease with which a careful weigher of words can appear to make a declaration wi;hout actually doing so, I further refused to take the statement of any person that anything tantamount to such a declaration was made by him In any of the outlying districts. Finally, on the evening of April 10, at the court- house in Antigonish, Sir Charles set all doubts as to the Government's Intentions at rest by de- claring, as unequivocally as the most skeptical could desire, that they had adopted remedial legislation as their policy and would stand or tall by it. Sir, what did that mean ? That it took the Minister tmlil tlie lUtii April liefore he stilt- ed exactly that remedial legislation was the settled policy of the Government ; yet he this afternoon stated that the hon. member for Guysboro' (Mr. Fraser) had pledged liim- (■elf io support remedial legislation on the (ith. Why, that was not the question at all ; and yet he says the member for Guysboro' pledged himself. Now, Mr. Speaker, I tell you that the question In Antigonish was, not whether the Remedijil Bill to be *tro- duced by this (iovernment would contain tlie exact provisions of the remiHlial nrdi-r ; but the question was for a time wliethcr they would introduce the Bill. On 10th \ April, tlic Minister of Justlfo for tlio lirst timo (locliiri'd tliiit nMncdial ItsisliiHon wiis tlio policy of llic (Jovcriiinciil. I iiiiiy Siiy tliiit I was iiol present at this ineetiim .)l' tlio lOrii April, I'roin tliat lime lorward I lie (JoveriiiiH'iU receivi'il tlie support of tliat l)ai)i'r, aiul I received lis oi)p(isitioii. Kut tiioii rem<'inl)i'r it was a whole weelc liel'ore it was understood in the country lliiit tliat was the settled policy of tlie (ioverinneiit. Tiie ex-Miiiistei ri'ad from my card an ex- tract showing tliat I afrreed with him on tlie point of law, namely, tlial tlie (iovernnu'iit were hound to take the aciion, file passiii.i;- of the remedial order, in ohedience to llie command of tlie lii)j;liest court in the realm. The Minister of .Tustice read that from my card, and I see tiiat hon. ueiillemen oiiposite applauded him because they found 1 agreed witli him on that opiiiion. I assumed tiiat a mnn occnpyiiiK tlie lii>;ii position of Minis- ter of .Tustlee in this country would lie a hish autliority on a jioint of law. and I as- sumed that liie Minislei' (if .Instice. wlio w;is the father of tills famous remedial oid(>r, and who went down and decland tliat ilie Oovpriuuent was hound by law to '"ssue this remedial order— I assuiiKHl that he was t;ood autho''ity, and I adojited liis opinion ap to the les.il I'Oint. I iiiii sorry to fliul that al- tliouuh his opinion and mine tli"n asreod, Ihey liav(! carried very little weiirht in this country. This view is expressly rejected by the presi-nt Minister of .Tiistiei'. so miicii so far as that card is concerned. An hon. MEMBER. An election card. Mr. GILLIES. AA'hat is the date of the card '! Mr. MclSAAC. lOtli April The ex-Min- ister of .Tustice tried to impost; on the House an impression, wliich was especially unfair to tlie iion. nieuiber for (iuysiioro' (Mr. Fraseri, and 1 want to read to the House what the lion, fieiitlenian stated in that county since that time. lie went down to Antitroiiisli. when the Conservji lives iK'ld a convention last November iiiid. accordiiijr \i> the report of the "Colonial .Standard" stated : I have been a member of the Cinadiaa House of Commons for a cousiclerable period of time, and having fought under leaders that do not now exist, I ran safely afllrm that I never knew a poriod. whcMi the party nas more uuitod to win tlian I found that party before the last session had ended. All these infamous stories and false- hoods which fall from the Grit press from day to day, are born in desperation. Their miser- able jibes, their horrible slanders and their in- famous f.alsehoods in respect to the manner in which fifteen Eentlenicn conduct themselves and the public business around the table of the Privy Council of Canada, are put before the public be- cause these men are destitute of proper political capital. That statement was made in face of the fact that at the very time he was jiiviuff utterance to such words' as terrible slanders, infamous jibes, he knew that within the Council Cham- ber there had occurird somethlnj; which, probably, never happened in any Kovorn- inriit in tiie civilized world— ministers ac- ciisiiii; each oilier of forgery ami commillin,i; alniosi all the crimes in llie eaienilar. Let hon. yeiitlemen read tli(> siateineiits made by the lea, but it was very dillieult to do so, iiecanse they had for leader a man who was not lit to be leader ; .and oiit> of the seven bolters was the lion, ficnlleman (Sir Cliarles Ilibhert Tupper) him- self. Ill llie f;iee (d" lliese fads, 1 asU. if llie staieiiieiit of llie ex-Minister is to be re- lii'd 11)1(111 V In re;j;ar(l to my own iKisltioii, to wiiich tiie lion, ueiitlemaii referred, 1 ain not afraid here, or elsewhere, to slate what my posi- tion is, and what my pledge was. I pie(iy;ed myself to vote vith tlio (ioverniiient on lids question without any reservation or condi- tion wiialever, and I iiit(>nd to keep my pledge, and vote for the Bill. Some hon. MEAIKEUS. Hear, hear. Mr. MclSAAC. Mr. Speaker, I stated over and over ajraiii diirinn' the contest tliat 1 believed that I he school (luestiou was •■it least as safe in my leader's hands and ids supporters as in the haiicis of the jiresent Premier jind liis supporters, and havinj? watched the halting; and boltiiiR course of the {.'overnment ever since, I s;iy tonlRht, that I am stronger in that conviction than I ever was liel'ore. 1 want to point out to tills IIousi", tliJit, while I am nuleemiiif; my liledfje, made to the electors of Aiiti},'onish— and it 'is one lliat I never intended to vio- late—the (iovernnient have not carried out the jiiedges they made through the Minister of .Tustice to the (^lectors. An hon. MEMBER. "Wliat was the pledge? Mr. MclSAAC. The Bill before the House is only a shadow of the remedial order, al- tiiouf,ii we were promised a Bill to embody the provisions of tlie leiniMlial order, namely : (a) To construct, maintain, manage and conduct Roman Calliolio schools ; (b) to receive a pro- ji'M'! JKiKile i-liar(> of every sutisidy granted from tlic public funds for educational purposes ; (c) exemption for the Catholics from the payment of taxes imposed for the maintenance of public schools. These are the promises that were made. 'I'liai \\as the cliaraeler of tlie BUI wliich tlie Ministei- of .Tustice on that ocea- e.'ision idedgiMl tlie (iovernnient would intro- duce and pass tiirouKli this House. I am 111 re to say. that the Bill now before the House does not cont.ain the provisions, but omits the princijial and most material one oc the three sub-clauses of the reint.dial or- der. Tiie Minister of Finance, on Stli July of last year, at the time wlien there was a bolt ill llie Caltinet, and wiien three Quebec Ministers went out of the (Joverninent, be- cause the Government failed to carr.y out their promises, made the following state- raent, with a view to satisfy the members of the party :— A session of the present Parliament will be called together to meot not later than the first Thursday of January next. It by that time the Manitoba government falls to make a satisfac- tory arraugoment to remedy the grievance of the minority, the Dominion Government will bo prepared, at the next session of Parliament, to be called as above stated, to Introduce and press to u conclusion such legislation as will afford an adequate measure of relief to the said minor- ity, based upon the lines of the judgment of the Privy Couucil, and the remedial order of the 21st March, 1895. TliL'Ho wcio tlio assurancps given by tlio i'Miianco Minister on ilie Stli .Inly, is!)."), at tile time wiieii liis friends ami snuiKirteis from the iiroviU( e of (^nebrc WfW dissatis- fletl, wlu'ii lie e(inl:entleniairs Irieiids, aiiil he was oidijied, on l.Mli .rnl,\', ti) nialce anotiier statement, in order to make Ids position clear, ;ind tiiai statement is as follows :— 1 am hero to state, and to state It on behalf of the Government, that so far as a policy can be decided on unanimously and unitedly, this policy Is : That so far as It can bo eiuinciated clearly, and so far as this Government Is concerned, it intends to adhere to that policy, word for word, line for line, and letter for letter. The flr.st statement ho made did not seem to satisfy hi.s friends, and so he made .another stiitemeut of a more certain clmracter. niid .stated that tlie remediiil order would be cjiiTied ont line b,v line, word for word, and letter for letter. The Bill introduced does not contain tlio iirovisinns of the remedial order word for word, letter for letter, line for line, not even paragraph fm* parasir.'tiili, bec;ins<> it omits clause (b), whicli. I have pointed out, is one of tlie most im- jMH-tiint. Wh.'tt was the statement m.ile by the Finance Minister last Friday ? The h(:n. sientlemau made a most elo(iueut and able speech, as he always does in this House. He spoke about almost everythitif; else at length, but he said very little about the Bill. After speudiiiK two hours iu discussing bills of ri.ahls and otlier sub.iects, he screwed up courage to come to the Bill under considera- tion, iiiul state its nature. He said :— The principle of remedial legislation Is in that Bill as the gold Is in the nugget. Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT. Very refrac- tory gold. >ir. I'XlSTER. It may be so. Sir. Put the man who wants to get pure gold does not simply kick aside the nugget with his rough encase- ment, but he says : Let me have that aud, with the help of others, I can refine It into pure gold, Comnare that statement with the statement made by him ou inth July, which said It Is not the nugget you are going to get, it Is the pure gold you are going to get, word for word, line for line, and letter for letter. But, t41r, on this occasion. It is tlie nugget he is gi\iijg us, and he tells us thai there is goltl in the iiriiiciple of the Bill, and that we can put it Ihroiigh the jirocess of rellu- ing. 'I'liat means. Hint when tlie Bill goes to the conimlttee of this House, the coia- inlilee, according to liis way of putting it, is a parllamentitry relining mill, tlie motive l)(>wer of wiiicli is tlie lioiuinlon (!ov- eriimeul. W(>11, Sir, tlie engine of this inolive power got very badly out of order last .Inly, when three bolters from tlu; pro- viiic(> of (.>uebec went out, beciius(! they liad not only no gold, luit lliey had not even the nuggel. The whole engiiK? got ont of repair then, and when ti;ey had not even niiggets to olTer tluMr friends from the province of Quebec, all they could do was to enter into a contract b.v wliich the niacliine wiis to be put into repair, and be ready for oiieration on the iJnd of .lanuar.v so as to begin the jirocess of relining. Sir, the lind of .januar.v ciime, and tlie mill wns there, and the mill hands wt're there, but what happened V Wliere was tli(» nugget, and wiiere was the gi>ld V Inst<>;id of th"se fourteen Cabinet .Ministers going to work as they agreed to, why, seven of them bolted, and left tlie fore- man, because, ms they said, he wtis not able to run tli(> miicliine. Although tli(\v had promised to begin work on tli(> Ihul of ".Janu- ary, the process of relining hiid to be de- layed, and two months elnpsed before they could get the machine into repair, and on the 3rd of March they moved the 2nd read- ing of this Bill. Mr. McDOIJGALL (Cape Breton). And yet you cannot get in. Mr. MelSAAC. And jet you cannot get in, says the hon. member. I have heard that statement during fnir elections at whicli 1 got in by a large majority, and I will get in iigain by a large majority. Sir, the only consolation the Minister of Finance gives lis is that when the Bill goes into committee, tlie gold will there be separtited from the nugget. Th;it might be nil right if all the members of the committee were an.xious to improve it, but I am sorry to say that such is not the complexion of the committee of tliis House. They will be divided upon this, as upon all other ques- tions. Some members will pull iu one di- rection iind some in another, but so far as I am concerned. I will give my hea.ty sup- port to any motion which is calculated to improve this Bill, and to get out of it all that we can. Sir. we listended the other evening to a speech from th(> hon. member for Leeds (Mr. Taylor) who is the Govern- ment whip in this House. When I heard his declarations ou this Bill, and when I heard the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fostt^rl say that the Bill would be trusted to a committee eomposod of such men ns the Government wliip, then, Sir, 1 th()U;,'ht to ni.vscll' thill there l.s very litth" Imije f(ir Bet- ting' inucli. Here is wliiit the (iiivernnient wliii) (.Mr, 'I'liylori said : For myself, I think the requirements of the constitution and the decision of tho Queen's Privy Couii;;ll wouM be fully met, If, when tha Bill KBls into coiiuiiitleo. It Is aiueudnil in tliiss way : That in tho province of Manitoba there shall be o'le national school system, that there shall 1h! one school, and that in that school no religion atiail Ije tauijht that will tjo offensive to the parents of any child. That would be my view ; tliat, I believe, would settle the constitu- tional grievance, bocau.so It would place the whole of the comiiiunlty on the same footing. That IS tlij view I sluUl talco, whon wu get into coiniiiltte,' on the liili. But, 1 priKiiuie, tliti hon. iiieiiilier for Xorth SlniroG (.Mr. .McCarthyi would oppiiso that view, be.-iiuye ho s^aya, that he prefers separate S(.hooi.^ to si-ciilar schools ; and I believe there are others In this House who taivo a similar view. But, In my opinion, the refpiire- nienta of the constitutl(,ii would be met, If this Parliament passed a Bill of that nature ; because, if the Christians in that country, ("ntholic and I'rotestint, cannot agree on a form of religion that will not be otT.Misive to any man's child, then, let them wipe out tho whole thing from tho schools, and let the religious training be given in the churches and Sabbath schools. Sir, J thinlv it is a rellertion on the pious fathers and mothers, on the clergymen of all denomina- tions alilie, and on the .Sabbath school teachers of all denominations. It the religious training of our children has to depend on twenty or thirty minutes daily of state-aided religion taught In the schools. And further on he said : • * ■• The hope of tho leader of tho Opposition, in moving this amendment. Is, that, if carried, it would put him In power, and then he will settle the question by a still stronger Bill. Does he promise, either In his speech or In his amendment, that, if he were In power, and the government of Manitoba refused to set- tle tl'.is Tuestiou, ho would not come to this Parliament and ask us to pass a stronger Bill, a Bill that will restore the schools as they ex- isted previous to 1890 ? No, Mr. Speaker, he says just the contrary ; he says, and his sup- porters from Quebec who have tluin far spoken Ml tile suljject also say, that tiiis Bill Is no );o:)il. that it is not strong enough ; and they will support hl'5 motion with the oliject, that, when he getH Into power, he will lirliK^: in a stronger Bill. They can go back to their constituents and say, we did not vote against t!ie Bill, wo voted lo put tlH' Ciiivern nent oiii and to put the leader of the Opposition in and he will give us a better Bill. And agiiin : * * ■• If the leader of tho Opposition wants to settle the question for all time to come, and remove it from this House, not to remain as a question, as the hon. gentleman has often said, out of which political capital could be made, then let him withdraw his amendment and sub- stitute a motion reading like this : That this House is of the opinion that this Bill or any other Bill dealing with this question be not read now or six months hence or at any future time, but the whole question be left to the province of Manitoba to deal with It as It majr deem bast. Let the hon. gentleman move auch a motion, and ho win satisfy the House that If tho question Is nol settled now, wo at all events will not deal with It, and It will be left to the province of ilanltoba. If the leader of tho Opposition should move a motion like that, he might reasonably expect the support of hon. members In this House who ar^' opiiosed to the ro-establlshment of separate sclioois as they were prior to 1890. But the hon. gentleman cannot expect that hon, members entertaining such opinions will support a motion for the six months' hoist preceded by a. speech to the effect that the grievances in .Mani- toba i.uist be removed, and that tho claim of the niinority that separate; schools be esuiblished must be conceded and attended to. This being llui cas.'. I riiinoi sup]"irt liie a.iiendiiii'ni. 1 cannot do so In view of tho statomei.t mad(! by the leader of the Opposition and repeated by his foilower.s, tl'at the only ohji^ct. tliiy have in view Is to defeat the present Hill with the hope of being able to pass a stronger Bill. Sir, if 11ier(> are iiiaiiy in this lloiise llkn the hon. );-eiilIeniMii l.Mr. Taylor) 1 see very Utile lidiie I'or tlie Hill Immiij; made any bet- ter in coiiuiiltlee than it is now. The (iov- eriinient all iiloiiLr have maintained the posi- tion, and it has been asserted a.Lcain io-tiinlit by the eN-.Minisler of .luslico (Sir I'haiies Hlbbert Tiii>iier) tliat they cannot expeet anytliii!;; I'loni .Mr. Creeiiway and the u'ov- eriimentof Maniloba; tlitit, in fact, tlie M.ini- toha u'overiiiiu'nt had sent notice throti};!! Mr. .McCarthy, while tli(\v w(>re hearini,' the case last spriiiv:, thit no matter wlitit order the Privy Coiiiicil wotild ii:iss. or no m.atter wliat P.ill this House would pass, the ^vov- ernment of Manitoba would not ob(>y it. Well, Sir. if the Coveriiniciit believe that, and I iissume they did. then I siiy. Sir. that this Itill before tile House is a I'.ill whi'-.'i puts in the hands of the .Manitoba piverii- meiit the full control f)f its adininisirii liosi. If this Covertimeiir had at heart the inter- ests of the minority, ■';; they profess, and if they believe as the.' . -erted over iind over afjuiii. that the Maiii.ona j;o\crniueiit was li'^siil,'. then. S'r, ii is i.'ot only inconsistent, but it is Ii -artless and ertiei. to hand over to till' tender u>(>rcli>s of the oppress^irs. the (lov,-iiiro(l(lrii oiiiiri'ssed. Now. let me siiy a word or two about -ome seellous of the P>ill.. Tho lirst section tjives the iiiiiiointinent of tho school board to the .U'overinuent of .Miuitob;i. If tl!"y undertake to put into operation the provisions of tlie Bill, they would naturally select Catholics Avho ar(> opposed to separate schools. .And to show this IIous(> tliat I aiu not .alone in holdiiiiT that view. I will read another ex- tiacr from the .Viitiu-onisl'. " Casket." whicli. to sa.v the hast, has al! a Ion'.' b''en stron,:;iy in favour of tlie position of th(> Onvernuietit on this (luestlon. It says with reijard to this section of the Rill ; Wo cannot, howaver. in view of the attitude of intense hostility to Catholic educational rights taken by tho government of Manitoba, but anti- cipate grave difllculties from tho placing of the administration of the proposed schools almost en- tlrely In tho ImiiilH of that, K<'vornmoiit. Tho probublllty Is tlia* Mr. John O'UonoKhue will he the tlrst member •)( the new bDunl— or perhaps tho first Siiperlnteii'eat of Catholic schools for Manitoba, Then In tho matter of tho provlni lal grant to Catholic schools, tlicro Is absolulcly no warrant that wo can see for the assumption that thu i)rovinco will oiaUo this srant v(jliin- tarlly. If, then, there Is authority umlnr the constitution to provide for the sharing of this grant, it would sooin to us to be a wise policy to settle tills vexed question once for all. The 15111 providi'H tlirw imulcs of iisscssnu'iii, Soctioii ■.■:! Sii.vH tliiit i';i(;li .school si'i'timi mIiiUI be assi's.si (1, and liiivi' to pay and collect $20 a iiioiitli lor each iiioiitli ii tcaclicr is cm pliiynl In the s.'ctiiiu ; lu'.sl Ic iliai, iin addi- tional tax of $."i will be coll.'ctcd ; and. Iic- sidcs, tlici'c is tlic provision lliat the trus- tees can hold a ineetiiii; and iiiak<' a t'lirtliiM- assessment in order to carry on ii separate school sneeessl'iilly. Tliis would entail a burden tipon live laiiiilies. wliich is the iiiiiii- nuim number who can cslalilisli a seiiiiiiti' selK^ol. a ta.\- of belweeii :f2.'i and !$U) a niouMi without any legislative want wliMtevcr. Then, by s(Clioii ;',", sulisectioiis "h" iinil " 1," tlu! trustees are required to receive and provide aecommod.iiioii !'or tlio ihildion ol parents wlio are not Catliolirs. aiel l' of every school seclion as will pi'e\'ent llieir ciirryiuL; out tliis l.-iw. lly section l's. a per^ou wiio gives iiotic- li'at he is not a separate s-lioo! suiijiorter is not I ouud to contribute towards the suppoi't of tiie school ; so that wlienever any li'oubl(> arises in a M-liool section — ^aiwl ev(>rybody know." tliiit there is notliin;.;' more likely to cause irritation than the small mat- ters that .-irise in sclioid sections, re^ardliu' the location of school sites, the employment of leiicluTs, and sinular (lui'sf ions— then, evei-y dissmistied rateim.ver. no m;i!ter w'l'it the catise of his dissatisfaction may lie can. under tliis section, leave the school section and esca])i> taxation, and tliose whr) remain may be utterly unable to minutiiin :\ separate sehoo! in tlie district. S(>etioii 71- is tlie sec- tion wiiieli oinils elaus(> " b " of the remedial order wliich declares that the Roman Catho- lic minority in Manitoba tiro and shall be entitled to their share of the legislative grant for eductition, Tliis section is therefore so much waste paper; it amounts to noihing, and will, I liiive no donbt, r(Mii!er all tlie other sections of tho Bill unconstitutional. Nearly every lawyer in tliis IToiise fakes that view. I am not going to give my oiiiiiioii ;!t all. But the view of eminent lawyei's in this House is that this and otlier omissions from the Bill renders tlie wlioli^ Bill unconsiitu- tionnl. I will read from " r,a Verite," whiob is a leading Catholic paper in the province of Quebec, and I am told is called a clerical organ, referring to this Bill : The parliamentary corrcBpondence of the " Trl- fluvlm" considers that the iircKont time la not well chosen for dlaousslng tho merits of the Ueniedlal Ulll. Wo believe It Is tunnltlvoly bolter worth our whllo to examine this Hill now when It Is at least theoretically pos.slble to modify It, than to pass It tlrst and then to osliuiatu Its short- couiltiKs. It will bo said " If there are defects they will bo removed by subMcfiuent legislation." Lot no one create this illusion for hliuseU'. As the Act Is when passed, so it will reiiialn. Never can Parliament bo held to legislate twice on tliu (luesllon. If. Is enough to roMicnibor what Is going on at Ottawa to convince one of this. If the liUl is not mndllied so as to luakn It ccnform entirely to the reioeiUal order of last March It can bo attacked as unconstitutional. In effect tho Federal I'urlia.aout has no right to lc;-;i.-.|;Ue on llie chool ciueslioli, exc/pl in so far as tho Manitoba legislature has refused to legislate itself. Now the roiiiedial order of March 21st, 1893, declared that the minority had a right to three things, viz. : (a) To con-itruct, luaintain, manage and conduct Uonian Catliollo schools ; (b) to re- ceive a proiiortioniite share of every subsidy granted from ihe public funds for educational I)urposes ; (c> linally, exemption for tho Catholics from tuxes imposed for the maintenance of public schools. It is a, b, c which the Federal Uovera- ment ordered the legislature to do. It Is, there- fore, a. li, e v,iiicli tin- Muniloba legislature has r liiHed to ilo. It i-s. therefore, a, b. and <; which tho Federal I'arliambnt has tho right to do in virtue of the constitution. IJut by tha Hill actually before the public the Government only invites Parliament to do (a) and (c) ; for no matter what we may say, clause 74 does not do (b), that Is to say, it does not give the minority a proportionate part of every grant made for educational purposes out of pub- lic funds, Winnipeg may tnen say : " I have refused to do a, b and c, b>it I have not refused to do a and c alone. You have, therefore, the right to legislate on a, b and e, because of my refusal, but you have not the riglit to legislate on a and c, because you have not, In the firs' place, given me notice to legislate myself on a and c alone. It is useless to do like the ostrich, to hldo riio's lie, I I ill the siiiiii and I'elieve one s self under shelter. If clause 71 Is not modified so as to do c, the Act will probably be declared uncon- stitutional. Let us now cast a glance over some of tho claiises of the liill wiiicti. according to us, re- aulre to be altered. To begin with, the first section of the Bill ap- pears to us as exposing the minority to a grave danger. This section says that " the Lieutenant- Governor in Council of the province of Manitoba shall appoint, to form and constitute the Sepa- rate School Board of Education for the provinco of Manitoba, a certain number of persons, not (xcecdiiig nine, all of who'ii sliall be Roman Catholics." It Is hardly probable, we know, that the Manitoba government would carry this clause Into effect and constitute the Separate School Board, but It may do so, and if it should take Into Us head to carry out this disposition of tho RllI it would certainly 'lo ft in such a way as to frustrate the whole law. For that purpose all it would have to do would bo to api)oint as members of the new board a certain number of perBouB n-'Kardod ai CalhollcM by law, but deeply oppoBod to snparato sclioolg. By aocUon 2 tho Uoiiilulon ODVorntiiont roscrvos the riKht to constltuto aud runcw this board It the Manltoa Kovurutnont uenlocts to do bo. I'ru- denco dumandH, It BceiiiH to ub, that the Domlnlou Ooverniiipiit should roaurvo this right to ItKclf oli.MciliiK'l.v, otlr.'r.vlho, It ojii'iiH 111" iloor to univn coinpllcailotiB. l'"or, wo repeat It, If the provin- cial Moveniiiicnt takc;i appoiulniu; inciiibera of tho Sepanile Sihool Hoard It will only bo for tho purpoHo of oljHtnictlon. Till) third section aeoiuH to \ia atlU more dan- gerous, becaus'! It Insures, so to spoak, tho hostile Intorvenllon of the M;inltob:i Kovernnient. In faet this section says that " tho Departtneut of Kdu- catlon for the province of Manitoba may make such regulations as they may think 111 for the general oiK-Uilzatlon of the sepanito schools. Now, the Department of nducatlon for Mani- toba la nothliiK clso In reality than tho Kovern- nient. So, then, the s(!parate schools will be sub- ie<'t for their general organization, to the Rov- ernment that haj Just abolished them ! No need of dv.ellInK upon this. Besides, this section 3 la as usolesa as It is dangerous. Section -l Rives to the Separate School Hoard the rlt;ht of maklnR r.'Kulallons for the schools. There will then be concurrent jurisdiction. Uoth the Department of Rducatlon for public schools and the Separate School Board will have the rlRht to make regiilationa on tlie same matter- the separate schools. Therefore, the two sections ."? and 4 constitute a breeding nest of endless cnntllets. Section 4 gives tho board the right of choosing the books to be us-ed In the separate schools, but limits the cholco to the books In use In the pub- lic schools In Manitoba and In the sei'arato schools of Ontario. This limitation seems to us arbi- trary and dangerous. A loyal genlloman said to us on this subject : " I think, for my part, that thy Dominion Cioverniiient has not the ri!''.t to i'liiios^ iMiy restrictions as to the choice of books, If such restrictions did not exist In the school laws of Manitoba before 18110." Owing to this restriction it will bo very dlfllcult, we believe, to establish French schools ; that Is to say. schools whore the teaching In done in French where the ordinary language Is French ; for the separate schools of Ontario are, abou' all, Kiuiiisli. To iv eel tain extent thi' teaching of French is allowed, but even in the French districts, if we are net mistaken, the English is the official lanffuaa. i . tne separate school as well as of tho pul .c achool. The school books niust necessarily bj of the same nature as the schools ; that is to say. they must be mainly English. Moreover, one knows what a dreadful war is being carried on in Ontario against the separate schools. Should a party opposed to these schools come into power in Ontario they could very substantially modify the separate school hooks. Grant that to-day these books be proper ; Uiey may cease to be acceptable to-morrow. Why should the law subordinate tho existence of the separate schools In Manitoba to the vicissitudes through which the separate schools may have to pass in Ontario ? The famous section 74 reads textually as fol- lows ;— " The right to share proportionately in any grant made out of public funds for the pur- poses of education having been decided to be, aud being no\>-, one of the rigiiis aiul la'ivlleges of the said Roman Catholic minority of Her Majesty's subjects in the province of Manitoba, any sum granted by the legislature of Manitoba and appropriated for the Hcparalo schoolt shall be placed to tho credit of tho Hoard of Educa- tion In accounts to be opened In tho hooka of tho Treasury Department and In tho Audit Olllco." In plain language, the meaning of tho above Is thl.i : As the Catholic tiiln irlty have tho right to a proportionally share of all grants voted by til.' Irgli-.laturo I'or Ibe purposes of ^-.lueatlon, they may accept whatever the legislature may grant them. As tho reader will see, this Is not terrorizing. Hut the Ministerial papers will say tho Gov- ernment (aniiot gi further than that ; they can- not touch ti.e funds liclonKing to tlf iirovliice to give a part thereof to tlie i 'atlidlics. All they can do iH to declare that the CtUhollcs have at right to a proportlouatu share of tho aums voted for education. No doubt the Federal Parliament could not apiiropriale any part of the funds of a province to any use whatever. But the Bill eouid go much further than It goes. It could provide, for Instance, that, as tho minority have a right to a proportionate aliaro of the sums voted by the les^islature for eilucati(inal purposes, there will rest with this minority a right of action against the province of Manitoba If such a proportionate sharo bo not voted to it. Tho clause would then have a sanction. What Is the use of siileamly proclaiming tin; right of the minority to a share of the legislative grants if no means be given it to h.ive this right resiieeted ? The law- might say also that in tho case of tlie Manitoba legislature failing to vote to the mirioritv tin? sums to which this n inority is en- tilled, then tho fiovernor General In Council shall take out of tho proceeds of the sale of lands reserved for the support of scliools a sum proportionate to the number of the f^athollcs and apply it to the separate schools. There is no- thing like that In tho Bill. This softion 74 Is therefore cicnrly liiteufl- 0(1 to Ininilius the minority in .M^iiiitobii, an is iilso secti'm 1T_>. I'.iit we ;ire told Hint tlio luinofitv ;ire siitlslled Mini tlitit tlierel'ore we should not olijecl. Xnw. I have lieiird this, but I am not suti.tlied tlmt they are. Mr. ( !II.LIl';s. You had better vote against the Bill. y'r. McISAAC. Bill as It is V Mr. GILL1E8. Mr. MelSAAC. Mr. GILLIES Are you satisfled with the Certainly. Without any amendment ? I am satlslied with the principle of the Bill, and tliai is what we are discussing' now. Are you sati.-ilied ? Mr. McISAAC. I tell you tliat I am not Mr. GIT-LIES. Then you h:id better vote against the Bill. Mr. McISAAC. I say that il' I could believe tliat tlie minority in Manitoba are satisfied with the Bill, as il is now, I would he com- pelled to say tliat the grievance of that mi- nority, as they were represented to me and to the people of the country, must have been srosslv niiif-'niiied. I 'io not belK-ve that the minority are satisfied witli it. except per- haps oil this condition, tliat promises have be(»n iimde \» Kentlomou roprt'SfUtliiK the ml- iKirity In Mtiultoha, tliiit uIIIhmikIi tliU Mill pracilciilly itrovidcs hut very litilf, still in till" Ciinin', (licy will ifi-l sDiiiclliluK UKirc, niitl uiiiU'r tills hclU'f llicy iiiii.v linvc kIvi-ii their iissciit Id the Hill. 1 want im slriHiRfr pfiMii' of iIiIh ihiin what oci'iUTt'd ilic otliiT nlKlit, wii"ii 111' linn, ini'iiilpcr I'm lion. rDHtiiiaMtcr lpli(' Caroiii. I shall read fnuu thu .siK'L'ch of tho hoii. inciuhi'i' fi>r tiuobcc on that occasion. Ho said : Hy tlio last cIiuihu of the Hill an attempt U JiiiKlis to hiimluiK tlio inliKirlly nml iiuluci' It to a'copt tho 1)111. Tlip I'rlondK nt ih > (iovrniiu'iit tdv to lliciii : It liJ tnio timt l iIh Hill kIvi'H vdu nothing, but It lays ilowii the prlncliil.', ami (inc > thftt ii''iiell)le Ih acicpUd. we shaU pas;< a Kood mil that will Rivo you all what ymi ask for. Thi' Mliil.stors w(.iilil not daio t., .speak in that wnv hi thiii II Hi.u', but Itiat l.s what thrii- 1'rlt'iidH aay out of It. \:i tho IV.tilrrastor Oi'Iut.iI prepared to Btate that tills Ih only the be>,'liin;iiK, and that the law win te completeil later on ? U' ho makes such ii doflamtion I am ready to vote for the Bill. !h the Postmaster General prep.ired to (U'llare that this Is oijiy the brKlnnins. and that the Hill will he eoiiil)leted al. anolhiT ses- Bloii ? Let hiiu answer iiiimediatelv. Kvery oni" knows why he doe.s not answer, lie will not answer, but his friends will so "n deeelvlnp tho minority by making! !t believe that this Is only the (■emineiici'iiieiit of the jiis'iie which ihe (iov- ornnu'Mt h d ■termlnoi to grant to It. They say that this Hill is but the aiitnowUxlKment of 'Jie Jirlnciplo of intcrfereiu'c. .ir.d ll^at Ihe law will be eoi!ipletPd later on. But. thoiiuh il!t> hoii. iiu'iiilior for (iuohoc Cc'iiti'e threw this (iiallciiKc across the tloiiv of this House, tho rostiiiastor (Jcncnil rc- malnctl diiiuli, and even yet no answer ha-* come from him or any otlier nienilicr of the Covei'iuneiil. 'I'lieri'torc, .Sir, 1 ain satislicd iliat iheso sections are put in for tlie purpose of liuiiil)ii^r«;in',' and deceiviiiLf the minority in .Manitoba. I iiave listciuil witli a frreat deal of ationtlon to the spoeelies delivered on both .sides of tliis deliati'. Of all tliose 1 liave lieai'ii speak, the iioii. ineniher for Hellechasse (Mi'. Aiiiyot^ convinced me most stroiiiily of two lhin,!,'>— tifst. that he was more stronjrly in favour of tliis Hill tlian any oilier niember of tiie House, aiul. sec- ond, that Ib> brouRlit forward some of tin: strongest jirKuments .airainst tlie Bill that have been broujilit forward by any member. lie said : ran we pass lesrlshation to force ^^r. Green- way or tho ^Tanitoba povernment ? What power have we ? The only thin; we can do is to pass a declaratory law, and the Dill contains that de- clarat'on. It says that it la drridrd that such is tho rlsht of the minority. Mr. Speaker, when tho government of Manitoba will bo led by men who are. friends of the minoritle.'' as w.'il as of the ma,iorlti''s. whci the Kovornment of Manitoba ■will be led by friends of justice, then th,-? .Mani- toha gnrernnient will find In the law ueh decl.a- ratlon. a''<'. will give jus-ice to the minoiity. But, Sir, so long .as the Manitoba sovernin.'nt •will be led by friends of the Liberal party in this House, unles.s we go there with au army, unless V e go there vitb force, unlaM \vu ko there a* a nation I'tiulppcd for war In orfler to obialii that justice Hhlili til' I misiltiitlon .;iy.H i:< ourx, 1 do not SCO uii> human way of loreinK .Manitoba to Klve us Justice. Wo inlKlit, p 'rh ipH, wiy In tliln mil that; a eiTtaln amount, yeuiiy, ghould bo Klvon to 'he sepaiMIe Hc'ieols out of the laiidH which the Ketloral Governinoiit own In that pro- vince. Well, Sir, It will bo easy to pais hii li u law liitpr oil. It inlKlit bo. perlmps. imaslble to insert him li a ( laiiso ev(;u In tlii.s Hill, but. that I do not dlHcuHs now. Later ou In hU speech he salil : Hut, Sir, the I'onMprvatlve party of Manitoba, wlilili. In Manitiiia, as everywhere idsi , Is tho upholiier of llbt rty, Ih not a very mimuII minority In that privlnco. If you tako thu returns o( the last election for the .\luilltob;i leujlulature, you iliid that out of a total of J,"i,uO" votes, Kivin« thirty-two governriient HUpportora, i he novern- moiit supporters have recolvoj 11,178 votes, whereas the Conservative candldatoi received loTl'i votes, tho I'atrona li.iiM) vot"S, and the In- depend''nt received 'JliU vol. . *»•*♦• Voii will SCO, also. Sir, when party passion Is over, when the pres'-nt Hill will bi' the law of tho land, when It will bu understood and liitiT- preted, when tho HOlitlnient of Justice whkii ex- ists In the lunrt of eveiy Canadian Is awakened, you will sec then. .'■'ir. tliut the Conservative liarty will bo in power in .Manitoba. Thoiij tho Ciinserviillve party will get back the majority lu Manitoba, and you will have a friendly adminls- tratlon at 'he head of affairs Ihi re. Then this liw will be th" Haf"ty of the minority, will bring l)ijck peace to tlu' l>omlnlon. and will alio..' us to work harmoniously t'jgether for the di vtlop- meiit and ilu' well'are of the country. That la what this law la likely to do. Jlr. AMYOT. Win the hon. Kentleman al- low nie one remarii V 'I'iie hon. ^'eiiileman (luoles my spn eh. but does not atiy Ilia* liiat part refers esiieiially to tlie ( l.iuse providini; for the sh;ire for the tuir.oiity from the edu- cation fund. He sliould have the fairness to state that. Ho cpioies this as' If 1 were spe,'ilrovlsions of this I I I mil, iiikI will linvf to npply tln'iiiHPlvt'H i<> lIlC (llllllllful pniCCMM of ddlim' JllHtlct' to till' nilnoi'llv IIii'iiiikIi Hh' liiNlntiiii'iiiallty of tills Hill, lie Hliitcil Hull IiinMi'i' will li" il<>i'.l>'it iiiilll III-) ri'li'iiilM ut't liilo power III M.iiiitMii.i Sir, woiilil It not lie I'lir lii'licr I'lir Ills I'nrinls to piiHM 11 Mill III llio li'KlHl.iliirf 111' Miiiil- loldi llHi'ir. Iioi'M no! <'Vit,vImii|.v know tiiiil ;i Hill piisHi'il III Hint |i'|,'IhIiiIiii'i- W wortli tiT rliiicK nioi'o to llii> toliiorliy ul' liint provlini 1 I, iiiii ■..........! !•. II. 1.. ir. ....... 'I 'IM. ...... tell IK lllllll II Mill pllM^4IMl III tills llonSt'V 'I'lll'l' fore, ilSMlllllllIK' lll« Mlllli'Mii'lll to lie coitccI, I s;iy ir Jiisilc'c Im to lii' dcnli'd llii' iniiioi'ily i.j . ••• 1 ,|,,|^ (,,,( lilt,, |,|,^^ 1-. »i I'll II limy liii'liiili' ICl'C, Wl'I'l II, of Uhcrty, iim Ni'parati' ncIiooIs. Wliy, liiiM till' lion. Kcntli'iiiiiii liccn ii.slccp I'oi until Ills IiIi'IiiIh iit'\ liihi powiM' In .Mani- toba, tlii>n It will l)o liiiiiilii'ly iH'ticr ili.il IiIh rrli'iiilM hIioiiIiI liiii'iiiliii'o M Mill Into llii> It'KlHliiliii'i' ol' .Manltiilia. Hut tlii' lion. Kcntli'iniin Iiiim i.'oni> t'nrtlu'r. Iii> lin-i Ntali'd Hull 111!' CoiiHci'Viitlvt' piii'ly In lln' pi'o\lni I' .M.inllcddi, as clsow till- <'liaiiiploiiM of loh I HllppoMO I liy, liM> tilt' last lll'lci'ii yi'iiis '.' lias li(> read tin pollilral cvcnlH (d' lids ciiuntry fdr tlicsi' years '.' Iioch he not Unow Hint for ili't.x'n yciii'H a hII'iikkIi' lias Itecn ^oln^' on In ilio provliico of Oniiirlo mi this very ipi''^" tlon V And wliiil Is Hh' ii'i'oid of his friends In Oiil.'irio on Hiai iini'silon, and what the I'ecord rif Hie Mlieial piirlv Iiolllli'iil oveiilH III Hint pi th<> sialeiiii'iilH (d HidleehiiHSe (.Mr, Hervailve parly In IS Do the Hint provlne(> prove the Ikiii. nieinlier for .\iiiyol) that the Con- Mnnltotta and idse- wliere are Hie elianiplons of r<'lli;io\is lilieriy and lolerallon .ill over lliis (■oiinlry V lines lii> not the liisl llfleeli yea rs tin l>y .Sir Oliver .Mownl. know that dnriiii: Mlieral imrty. leil ave stood by tin oy Mr iMiver .akiwiii. nave siooii ny iiie sepnrnle sel Is niid H anse of the Catho- lie inliiorlly In Hinl province V And does he not know Hinl during those tifteen yenrs Ills )i(i|llleiil nsHiielnles in that province hii\'e hounded Sir ((liver Mown! and liie I.ilierais from pillar lo imHt, becniise forsooth they would not lay their liaiids U])on tlie Hcparnle hcIiooIs iind desirny Hieiu. Sir, I will i.'o furl her, and I will e.xaiiiiiie the pidi- llualloii In .Mnuilolin. The lion. y;eii- liave Hiis House believe that the friends of Ilea tlonian woiiii bis friends In .Manltolia are separnle schoids, are the friends of the in. iiorliy In tlial )irovliice. On that point I take Issue with hini. and I will proceed to t,'ive Hie proof. In Hie election whicli toolv place in .Maniloba In IMPi', the Conservative Iiariy. at a com I'liiion iield on .".Oth May, nt \Villlllpeu', lldopled 11 pllltforill, the si.xtll plank of wlileli reialed to schools, and roads as follows ; — Tlio OppoMltlon liereliy dcclnre : 1. That tliiiy iini In fiivour of one uniform sys- tem of iiutillc; HiilioiilK for tlio province. 2. Tliiit tlicy are ready and willing to loyally carry out the iT'jH^^nt Act should it be hold by the .ludlcliil (^nnmlltee of tho Privy Council of Great nritaln la bo within tho legislative power of the provlnco. C V Me I -2 3. That In the nvnnt of luch School Act bRlng held by the Judicial Cominlttoe of tho I'rivy Counill of tiruut Iliitiiln to bo boyond tho loglt- Intlve iiowors of tho provlnco, they will onde*- Vdur to ■(.'inire •iich anicndmonti to tho " Urltlib North America Act " anil thn " Manitoba Act " an will pluco educational matter* wholly within tho loKlHlatlve power of tho provliiie of Miinl- tobo, without appeal to the Governor In CouDcll or the i'urllamcnt of Canada, 'riiiit is Hie plaiforin of his friends in IS'fJ. Hut did the last (dection all'oi'd \\n> lion, nuonber a eriiinb id' eonifoii In that respwt V All eieetion Wits lleld within ii few WeekH in Hull lU'ovlncf. I will K'ive the lioii. Kentle- iiiaii Hie pl.iifoiin of his friends, tlmse who In Hie future are to «lve justice to Ills co- rellu'loiilsls in that provlin'c. Here Is Hie jilatforin id' the Conservative party, here Is the ai>|ie:il wlii'di Hiey made to the people of Manllobii a few weeks ii;,'o when the provin- cial €deciion was held. It was publislied in Hie " .NorWester," tho chief (Conservative oi'Kan In that province, nnd I will read It : DECEPTION. EIoctoPH of Manitoba. Th' Oreenway Ooverninent Is Deceiving You. Mr. Laurier said at Montreal, In tho late con- test there, spcakini; as to the Manitoba school ipicstlon : I have no hesitation In tellliiK you that I want to have the minority In .Manitoba restored to the same prlvileRcs which are freely granted In Quebec to the Protestant minority, and to the Catholic minority In Ontario. The Itrandon " Sun " (the organ of the Green- way party). In its l.isue of ;;titli December lost, »ald : Let It bo shown that the Manitoba School Act attacks the conscientious convictions of Catho- lics 'id wo win join In demanding Its amend- II ciirriMilon. 'Ion. Mr. Sifton, in his speech at Douglas, on ;!lst December last, as reported by the Winnipeg " Dally Tribune " (the Government or- g;in), said : We aro prepared to con, lier any changes In method that will make It acceptalili! to the Rom- an Catholics. We will do anything In reason, nnythiiig that will not compromise principle ; and uj;ain, anything In reason. If we can settle this ii>atter without coinpi'«>mising principle, then we will do it, but not otherwise. If there Is any change that can bo made In the religious exercises that will make them acceptable to all parties, if any change can be made In the time they aro held, or other like changes, we are pre- pared to consider them. What does all this moan ? Is the present School Act going to be modified to meet the grievances of the Roman Catholics, by the Green- way party. If returned to power ? Why are IhoKC do'ilitful and (|ualitied expressions utteied and published at the present time it no under- standing has been come to ? The evidence la clear, and the Inference Is clear. Tho Greenway party are coming before you on a false Issue. They are deceiving you on this school question, and hope by means of It to cover tho numerous sliortcominga of their administration. You may depend upon It that, It returned to power, they will so change and amend the pre- sent School Act that the conscientious convic- 10 tlons of the Roman Catholics will no longer be attacked by It, an1, though they will not have separate schools lu name, they will have them In fact. UoiiiPii ber Greeuway's withholding of maxi- mum letter as to freight rates. Remember Sifton's concealment of Dalton Mc- Carthy's opinon re r.yan & Hcney claim. Remember Grcoaway's deception towards the Roman Catholics in passing the School Act, and he will now deuolve the whole province. ELECTORS, DON'T TRUST THEM ! ! '. Wlmt docs that moan '.' This is the lcadii!« Couservativu piipt'i- iu that pi'oviiico. this is the platform of the (.'onsorvativc party, and this is the appeal made by the Conservative party to the eleetors of Manitoba a few weeks age That paper aslcs the eleetors to reject tlie (ireeuway .uoverument be- cause that sovoriiment would lie prepared to extend relief to the Komau Catholic minor- ity ; whereas the other party were pledfied. If'thev Rot into power, never to jrive them any relief. Is there any comfort for the hoii. member for Belleehasse in that ? If so. he is weleom:> to take it. But 1 have not exhausted tlie hou. geutleman's arjiuments yet. It is reasonably clear from these arguments that this Hill will afford no rem- edy, but the hou. member ff)r Belleehasse has another argiinicnt, and 1 will give it to the House. He says it is useless to try anil enforce this Bill while Mr. (ireenway is in power, unless we g(- 'b"rt: with an army. Now, let us nee how the hon. memlH>r would succeed if he wont there with an army. He went out there once before. Hi admitted that we cannot enforce thb- law while Greenway is iu power, and the onlv means of enforcing it Is by waging war upon Manitoba, and I sin)pose the hon. irentleinan would be willing to undertake it himsolf. ^Y<'11. let us sujipose that h(> has mado a serious argtunent, and let us see how much th( re is in it. I.et us suppose that the gallant member for Belleehasse lends an army on to Manitoba, and takes in his caravan the Remedial Bill for the purpose of enforcing it. and ramming it down the throats of Creenway and his government. What would be the result '/ Against whom would he direct his first at- tack ? And who would return the volley first ? Would he be joined by the loyal Conserva- tives of :\Ianitolia in making an attack upon the Grits of that province ? Xo ; I fear not. I am afraid he is doomed to disapiiointment here .again. The only man in Manitoba I ever heard of who declared he was ready for v.ar, was a gentleman belonging to his political faith in the parliament of Manitoba. His name is Mr. Mulvey, member for the county of Morris. Mr. McOUEGOR. I know him, he is a Conservative of old. Mr. McISAAC, Of course, he v>'ould sup- port Greenway on this school question. I want to ask what the result of the hou. member's attack upon Manitoba is likely to be '.' This is what Mr. Mulvey said : He was a strong advocate of national schools. Wiis he a iiKiii who knew naught of liberty and freedom to submit to such a constitution as that drafted In 1S70 at li'ort Garry, at the point of the bayonet ? Were his children to be submitted to such a galling yoke ? No, Sir ! Four times al- ready lu his past career had he shouldered the musket in defence of the will of the major'ty and he would now say on the floor of this House, and without fear, that a fifth time would he take up his rille to tight for the liberties of the majority. Mr. Lain VI ERE. Greenway. And a supporter of Mr. McISAAC. On this question. Mr. I.aRIVIERE. Xo, all through. Fancy a fight carried on one side by the gaUant member for Belleehasse, and on thU other side by the bellicose member for Morris, and each lighting for the constitu- tion. Mr. AMYOT. I want to know If it is to my personal bravery that the hon. gentle- man makes allusion iu his observations '/ Mr. McISAAC. Not at all. I am saying that he is the only brave man I evt^r heard of iu this House, or in this part of the Uo- miuion, who has suggested war, and the only other brave man iu Manitoba who sug-gests war against him is Mr. :\Iulvey, Mr, AMYOT. I never suggested war. I said that was the only possible way to en- force the Bill, judging from our experience iu ISU Mr. McDOUGALL. 1 think I have a right to ask tlie hon. gentleman a question. I want to know iu regard to Major Mulvey— Some hon, MEMBERS. Order. Mr. SPEAKER. The hon. gentleman has no right to ask the hon, member who is in possession of the floor a question, unless he chooses to give way. Mr. McDOUGALL. I want to ask Som(> hou. MEMBERS. Order. Mr. SPEAKER. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Mclsaac) is not disposed to give way to ans- wer a question. Mr, McDOUGALL. He does not want to answer it. He Is afraid to answer it. Mr. McISAAC. Let us see how enforcement by an armv would work. The gallant mem- ber for Belleehasse (Mr. Amyot) would lead an army into Manitoba, and he would be met there no doubt by the bellicose member for Morris, JUajor Mulvey. What would the re- sult lie ? In order to asccrlalu the probable result, let us examine the past military re- cords of both and judge. The member tor Morris has four times already shouldered his 11 rifl;' III dofonci' of the majority, and be is ready to do so aKaiii for ilic llfth time. Mr. McDOUUALIj. He la Greenway's seconder. Mr. McIS.VAt". History records tliat the hon. member for Belleehasse went to tlie Xortli-west duriu^;- the rel)ellion Some hon. MEMBERS. Older, onler. Mr. SPEAKER. The lion, sentlemau shi iild st;ite wliat relevancy the conduct ol the hen. member for Belleehasse ni the North-west has to the Bill now licfore the House. Mr. McISAAC. I Wiis proceediiiR to reply to the remark made by that hoii. fientleman. That h.oii. neiitlonian has insisted that this Is tlie only way to enforce this Bill. Mr. AMVOT. Not this Bill, the remedial order. Mr. McISAAC. I am meotins that argu- ment, and I think, Mr. Spraker, I imi In order. If we are to judge as to the nrobable result of the conllict, we must consi ttiese records. I have already told you .. . mili- tary exi)lolts of the lion, member for Morris. Mr. SPE.VKEIt. I think tlic military ex- ploits of the hon. member for Belleehasse are not before the House. Mr. McISAAC. I will now inoceiHl to quote a few e.Ktraets from the " Mail and Empire," the leading Conservative organ in Ontario, to show the opinions it holds in regard to this Bill. On March -itli the " Mail and Empire," said : Sir Charlab Tapper's motion for thu second reading of the Remedial Bill elicited from Mr. Laurier this at'ternoon in amendment, the pro- position that the measure be considered this day six months. There is no mistaliing t!iG ground on which the Lilieral leader asl;s the House to acquico-^o in the six months' hoist. To his mind tUo Bill is weak and faint-hearted, and, what is worse, does not take from Mr. Green- way the control of the education of the Catho- lics ot Manitoba. It is Pignincaut that the two leading speakers who dealt with the subject to- day were forced to opposite conclusions by rea- sons that aro very much alike. Sir Charles Tap- per points out that, impelled by a sense o£ con- stitutional duty, the Government has reluctantly taken hold ot the matter. Mr. SPEAKER. I point out to the bou. gentleman that he is violating a rule by reading extracts <'rom newspapers re- lating to debates tliat have taken place in this House. Any editorial or any newspaper comment on a matter before this House can- not be referred to or read in the House. Mr. McISAAC. If that ruling had been given some days ago we might have had the second reading over now. I suppose it is not a very great loss to the House to abstlaln from reading anything in the " Mail." This Bill is inellieient and unworkable, and in the opinion of the leading lawyers who spok", unconstitutional. The Minister of Justice who discussed this as he doi s all tiuestions iu a spirit of justice and modera- tion never touched this pliaso of the dis- cussion at all, and the ex-Minister of .Justice, who is usually bold if not rash and aggnssive, did not even dare to iffrr an opinion on the point. It i.s a Bill which ostensibly professes to remedy the griev- ances of the tniuority without giving I'lf.'ctuai relief, and as has been well said, while creating a vast and obnoxious machi- nery. provhl»« no motive power eitlier to start it or keep it moving. It is what one might expect from the Government tliat issued a remedial order containing in strong terms declarations in favour "f separate schools for the minority, but without the intention of carrying it out. Mr. AMYO'I\ I rise to a point of order. I draw attention to the fact, that the hon. gentleman, who has indulged in personal abuse, is now reading his speech. I object to it. Mr. SPEAKER. That Is contrai-y to the rules, as the hon. gentleman knows. Mr. McISA.-VC. I am merely using notes, and the hon. gentleman knows it. Tt i.s the result of a forced compromise between the two wings of the Government, une of whicli desired to carry eut the order "word for word, line for line, and letter for letter,' and the other, the stronger wing determined not to carry it into effect. It is a. Bill of 11'.: sections, one of which declares that the mi- noritv shall have separate schools and nearly everv other one of the remaining 111 sections blo'eking tlie way, and in elfecr de- claring that the minority shall not have separate schools. It really oliers but a dry and lifeless skeleton to the Manitoba mi- nority. It is truly offering a stone to those who asked for and were promised bread. I cannot see any means whereby this skeleton can be vivified and given initial exlstemce unless the Manitoba government will under- take the process of incubating it into life, and there se(>ms but fiilnt hope for that to happen, while the two governments main- tain towards each other their present atti- tude.