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GRANT, THK \] AGENT FOR THE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND, BEFORE THE OTanatia Committee of x^% f^ouslc of ilJommonS; IN 1828, AS STATED IN THE PRINTED MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. t^^ QUEBEC : rniNTEU uv T, cAity & cu. 1 . ."'• '••' •'!/■, REMARKS ON THE EVIDENCE OF MR. GRANT, THE AGENT FOR THE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND, BEFORE THE CANADA COMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, IN 1828, AS STATED IN THE PRINTED MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. V X HE extraordinary injustice done to the Church of Englanci in Canada, in the evidence talvCii ia-;t year before a Committee of tlie House of Commons, U not, perlrips, to be regarded as matter of surprise, wiien it is remembered that tiie statements got U]) in favor of her new com|)etitor for equal privileges in this diocese, were procured and prepared in the midst of the highest party excitement, and conunitted loan agent, wlio was a profes- sional gentleman, accustomed to proceedings before those tribunals, where it is the practice on either side, to make the wone Appear the betler rcaHoii, and where the truth is elicited by the process of conflicting arguments and statements conducted upon this principle. But in whatever way the circumstance is to be accounted for, and for whatever charity of construction it may call, it carries with it a manifest necessity that tlio (V)rroctliig hand of truth siiould interpose. Such is the object of the present publication, in which some portions of the evidence given by Mr. Grant, on the 26th June, 182S, will be found, as it were, formally confronted with facts. It is not proposed to notice any other evidence than that of Mr. Grant, although there were instances in which room was ollered for similar comments. Ex HMO ditcc omncH, Neither is it thought necessary to comment in the same manner upon the other part of Mr. Grant's own evidence, given on the l/lh of .lune, in the course of which, however, it may be pointed out that tlie Scotch selflcmeiifs in the eastern district of Upper Canada, are put forward (p.p. 192,-3) in a manner which might almost lead to a supposition of their affording a sample nuich more ffciicral/i/, of the relative numbers of adherents of the t\vo churches, whieli, as is known to all persons aciptaintcd with the country, would be much as if the south of Ireland were selected iili)ivere originally built by I'rcsbyterians, who bv some imiustifiahle means (ii is said) were deprived of them. The Preslivterian congregation at St. Catherine's are about to build another. The names of the clergVmen of the Scottish secessi<,u havinir congregations in the district of" Bathurst, are M.:. Bell, at Perth, Mr. liuchanan, at JSeckwith and Mr. Geminil, at Lanark. A chiireh has been built at Lanark for a clercv- inan of the Chiirch ol Scotland. There are .j!)() Presbvtcrian coimm.nicants in Penh, OiilhoiHie, and iJeckwith. W e have only received returns from four to^^nships out of 1/ in this district, VIZ. Druinmond, Jieckwiib, and Dalhousie, which contain a Presbvlerian population of -,'JO;,. At 15yto\vn a lot of land has been allotted for a Scottish Church and imuister s housi-, and where a congregation of not less than .'i(«) could be found at iiresent. ihere are two Episcopal Churches in the district, one at Perth, the other at Richmond • the number ot communicuits at the former (in the town of Perth) is about L'O, and at tha latter ab(.ut ten ; hut tVe mission of each, 1 believe, embraces several to>vnship«.-. 1 resbytenan t mirciies are rc(piired in every touiisbip. There is onlv one elergvmaii vvit im the district of Gore in communion with the Church of Scotland ; aitowther there ai-e .Mght congregations in the district. Answers have been received from some of the lownshii.s showing a po])ulation of 2,'iUO. ji, 27i». * rims it siaud- in (hu printcil .;viaoiK.' ; t.iit ( hatha'H liab been ,atenu nt it wil .".,. I'lt he represents the number of attendants upon the service- ol the chnrcli at s'u. Iw ch to be troln twenty to thirty, at Ainhersthurgl. and Chatham In.m titty tos.My v.. the authentic returns made to tli. l5i>hop by the -Soccty s M,-,onar,es .n that ,nnr ei- (which returns are confirmed in every case by the signature ot a Justice ol the IV ce as\ye!l as of the Chur -hwar.lens,) it appears that there are trom sixty o seventy n .-^ ns a.ten.ling the service perlormc.l by the Uev. E. Koswell, at .Sandwich, (where, owever the bo.lv of the popuh.lion is Uonian Catholic,) ot whom lilleen are cminunicaiits, a 1 el. .1 1 ed upon Ih.'.-e performed by t!ie ilev. T- Morley, at Chathani. At Amhcrs^- b ' d n e township of Maiden, where there is a I'rotestant population ot 2 »,, souls, the cS'i tionof the llev.H. llolph amounts to 110 hearers, „t which nuiuber \J:2 are Et iscop lians,-of these, -10 arc communicants. The l-rote,tant population ot Colchester ai ounts to 4.^0 souls, of which • imber ;5G families are hpiscopalian which allowing fi cm" ons to each family, woulu give 180 souls belonging to the Church .^ hngiand. nore than one-third of the whole I'rotestant population ol the township, ihe number of persons in Colchester, attending the ministrations ot the Lpiscopal missionary amounts "* '^^Mr Grant proceeds to state that the number of attendants at the church iu the town of Niairara". does not exceed ni.ietv, and that the average number at Queen>ton, Chippawa, and die other churches is hut fifteen. Here, as before, Mr. (irant s intormation is very incorrect. Accor.ling to the return of the missionary at N lagara (the Rev. «• A'l'l'>"".) '^ appears that the congregation usually attending at the church ol Niagara ,s 150, ot whom HO are communicants, and that the total number within the township i^ '2M. In eonfirniation of what is here stated by Mr. Addison, retereuce may be made to an accurate account of the different religious persuasions in the town and tovnship ot N'iigara, as personally taken by the assessor, in the year iH^iH; by which it will appear that the members of the church exceed in number the Presbyterians in the town a.id nearly equal them in the township. It is also to be observed that a large portion of the Presbyterians do not belong to the Church of Scotland. A Stafetnent of the Members of the different Jlellgiom persuasions in the Tjm-n and Township of Niagara, as jjersouutli/ taken by the Assessor, for 18-8. TOT*r.. l,-242 1,614 2,856 VarloQl EpUco.. Pre.bn. MefhoJUll. B»plliti. Rom.n Calhollci. denomlnatloni. No deojmln.lloo. Town of Niagara, 434 375 136 55 220 11 H Township of Ni- ^ agara, 328 456 3/5 72 2o _38 320 Total,... 762 831 511 127 24r 49 331 Mr Grant next proceeds to state that the Presbyterians were deprived (" it is said ) bv some unjustifiable mean?, of the churches built by them at Queenston and St.Cathe: me s. This is very loose evidence; and unjustifiable proceedings ought not to htive been imputed upon such an occasion, upon mere hearsay. But the facts of the case are as opposite to this as li"-ht to darkness. The leading residents at Queenston, at the time ot the erection ot the church, of whom a nominal list, if necessary, could be lurnished, may be thus accurately classed. n^ . • l._Four families entirely of the Church of England. . , r-, i i . «• 2 —One family of which the head professed adheience to no particular Church, but o Mhich both tlie head and all the members constantly attended the Church ol England, and one of the latter was a communicant of that Church. 3 —One laiuity of which the head was a Presbyterian, but became a constant attendant and a communicant in the Church of England after her worship was established in the place, taking also the leading part iu the rseponses,— married successively to a lady ot the Church of England and a lady of the Church of Rome, and educating the children in eacli case according to the principles of the mother. i , n 4._-One family of which the head was also Presbyterian, but tho wife and cluldreii of the Church of England— n// attending and communicating in that Church. 5,_One Presbyterian (amilv constantly attending the Church of Englamh 6.— One Presbvterian bachelor also attending constantly the Chuich ot Lngland. These are the persons who had the principal share in the erection of the church up'-n the spot, and it will be seen at a glance h'.w very greatly thei:piscoi)alian inK'rest was prepon- derant Tho aid received from extraneous sources was irhotli/ giien by the C him ho/ J'.ng- latnl. At the instance of the Rev. H. li. Stevens, who himscit contributed Irom ila to iJU, £40 was received from the hitc Hisliop out of the church-builang hind, £;, trom the late Lieutenant Governor Sir Peregrine Maitland, (the sum which His l^xeellency gave whci- ever a new church was erected,) and A! 10 each, from Attorney General Hobuison and Mr. S. Htitt. The whole co-t of the buihlinc. probably did not much exceed £;i()0. But let the Presbyterians of Queenston speak for themselves. Ipoii ilie removal ot. Mr. Stevens from Fort (icoVge, during his station at which place he had gratuitously served tie church at Queenston,— an address was presented to him from the latter place signed by six persons in the name and behalf ot the inhabitants, of \\\wm four were the "e|.l)>^ terian heads oriamilies mentioned above,— and publiely read bclore the whOc a>seii.ble.l u coni?rt'S upon Rkv. th Provinc small b habitikii existed suasion lost tlie jiinctur giitioii, nreacli banish witnes! same |i wbo fu tlieir p recoHe emoliii ever n the cai your b A error < for mi exi)res Churc V which hutliei thurc given Hai in I pre prc( the of a ^ RKMABK.S IN »ll'"^ TU NO. I, tONTINtKD. cou,m>^'..ion wh...c. .uncu.rcnce_i» the team- of it was wuu.ly cxpn.sc.l. Tlu-ir lauKUHge upon the occasion is as follows : Upper-Canuda, Qmeustoi,, June 1821. Rkv. vmj I^';-\'* .^''*' ,^, unfeiu'iiedreLTct that we look forward to your removal from this •' " " "n H th " .our Xenc. w. shall experience a loss uln.ost irreparable. Province, an.lteel that m ^"^r a" , ^^^ ^^^^.^ „.^ ^,.,.,. Mru4;i;linB to complete the " ^V f" '" ^ ,?.jrnae.U theUueenstou ICpiscopal CIn.rch, but iu. n.any of the in- small buildmgn^'^S^^^^^^^^^^^^ habita..'^ of tins place •"\'f .''^ ' 'V" f,', f.,ture appropriation to divine worshi;). Each p.;r. existed a «l'V'^?''y f..?\ScTt open to t" eir 'I'. \,re^ and thus we had well - gh suasion was de3.rouol«.ymfe^^^^^^^ ,he putronV of Government. At this cru.cal lost the »JvanUvg,e ofjom service^^ ^ , ^^^^ j^^^^ ^^ ^ ^^^.^^^ ^^^^^ ^j.^.^.^^ ^ juncture yon arnv^d-V^ur^^j^ ^,,,1 i„co„trovertible .loctrines yuu aftern^rds gation, Fov^j '7;,X- fir Unsta,.ce to soften the rigor of party feeling, and nltnnutely to ..reached, X • Is '^^ the most zealous and obstinate every particle ot rescnt.nent. ^'*"' » ir „ w Si CO i'atulate you on the possession of feelings which must ar.se from . • «t l,.r de."artme a numerous and respectable co..gregatio.., composed of the wit,.e«s.ng at i^i depan^^^^^^^ ^vere opposed to each other; but who now are un.ted and sa.ne perso.,» who ^o ;;^^j'-"';y j ^j,, j„', t„„.„,d, „n„ther offer under the same sacre.l roof £/j "ers a..d ^pl^tionsJ^O^e^ume ^»^r^;,.,,,,, ,„., .„ ^^e you that the u r''"'LV'4uruasoWrsevic2(\^^ assu.ned, and without the prospect of reco lect.on "f ["^''^j^^j^' ,^tlv were attended with n.uch perso..al .nconven.ence) w.ll the ::^J^^ir!^,^'^^^^' -^ uUi...ately-receive the reward of your benevoUM.t «^rt|ons. * ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^ Catherine's, wmildeq.nilly show the '^"f X' rrUTstot'.. >.?. relation to thataffair. The churoh «as ong.na ly .les.gned error of Mr. GraiUs Stat. ..luu.^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^j^ ,„eh, by the exj. ^'" WwfSceto Mr. Grant's comparative statements .-^s..- whir;^ .nenti.us i.. .he district ^f Bath-jTst . .s J. ^= o s., '„.Hi.MUic return, obtained m April, IWiS, tioiii tii< uev. S u ch at Sh, in which the relative numbers of each churC gi^en, a differcit result will be made to appear : iig several places ^m the following •^^onary of the '.••■stians are Papulation of the Townships of Bathurst, Drummond a..- thodi 122 BAT'IURST. Epi«opaUans. Presbyterians. R. Catholic Methodl.... 591 489 ^^" HEADS OF FAMILIES. 132 100 92 21 tpincopaUans. 596 199 DRUMMOND. ^. , „ ,. , Presbyterians. R. Catholics. MeU.od.sU. Bap.jst,. 404 187 71 t« hEADS OF FAMIITliS. 115 70 27 10 Episcopalians. 731 166 BECKWITH. Presbyterians. R. Catholics. 603 85 HEADS OK FAMILIES. 134 14 Of no Communion. 11 PERTH AND THE TWENTY-FIVE ACRE I^Jf ADJOINING IT. Episcopalians. Presbyterians. R. tutholics. rao" 240 85 68 »«> I1F\DS OF FAMILIES. 47 25 23 4 17 Episcopalians. 2158 544 THE WHOLE POPULATION. Presbyterians. R. Catholics. Methodists. Baptists. 1581 766 206 bO HEADS OF FAMILIES. 374 199 52 12 Ci no Communion, 11 The number Of communicants of the Church of England within the mission of Mr. ""■^.if Snunicants of the same church at Richmond ^^JJ^^y^JI^^S'^ in ^ ^ in polntoftact 21. Themission, owing to the '";""\\'7, " ,'^^^^^^^^^^^^ pressed state at tl,c time of receiving this tnformat.on and the jj> opornon o in tl.e co.igregalion exceedingly small. . The Rev. B. B. Steven, must pardon the use made of this addre»a^^^^^ precede it. That they should be publi»I>ed .s known '» '';,»°* '" •"^^"'^7^^^ ^^Z cannot be regarded as thmg. the interests of truth as well as olthe Church to which he belongs, ana iiiey piam j of a private nature, I MR GRANTS STATEMF.M No. 2. I ji I The church at Ancastor, which Dr. Strachan (loscrihes in his cliart as ht-in^r Episco- pal, ill which he states the service ol" tlie Ciiuich of Eiii,'lan(l is icgulailv pirforiMed is a free I'rotcstaiit C Imrcl,, and ttie only service rei,'uiarly |)ertorme(l in it is by Mr. Sliceil a .Scotch ['reshytcrian minister. The cliurch in Barton was bniit coniointly'by tile IVesb'y- terians and Episcopalians in the neii,rhlioiirhn(Kl, and is ojjcn to the clLrgvn'ien of fithur tlcnoniinations. In Woolwicli there never was a church, nor service of any denomination There is not ;>n Episcopal CInirch at J>nn(Ias, nor has service of the Chnrch of England been i)erfornicd there for the last four or five years. In th'^ Indian villa^'u on the River Oiisc there is an Episcopal Church, which in fact, is the onlv one of that denomination in the District. This exhibits a state of things ditTerent from the Doctor's re[>resentation. Although the Prcsbyteri^ - in the Newcastle district exceed 2,000, there is not a clergyman of that church witliin it. The following has been furnished as exhibiting- an agcregatc accountof the religions sects in the townships of Hope, Haldiniand, Craniahe, I'ercv and Murray : 225 Presby- terians, 133 E|)iscopalians, bj Roman Catholics, 301 Methodists, 29() Baptists, ]8Uni- vcrsalists, besides 1,180 who are not attached to any particular cliurch, but are under- stood to prefer the following religious persuasions, in the following proportioa.s, viz. 227 , Presbyterians, 98 Episcopalians, 485 Methodis's, 3(n Baptists, 73 Quakers. i There is not a clergyman of the Church of Scotland in the district ot Johnstown, but there are two of the Scottish secession, viz. Mr. Smart, at Brockville, in the township of Elizabethtown, and Mr. Boyd, at Prescot, in the townrhip of Augusta. There are 1,177 souls of the Presbyterian faith in Elizabethtown, whicli is only one out often town- ships in the county of Leeds, forming the western seeti'^n of the district. Tlie number of communicants in Mr. Smart's church is 115. There are two Episcopal Churches in the township of Leed&, one at Brockville and another at Bastard ; the hearers at the former vary from 40 to 00, communicants not exceeding 20 ; at the latter the hearers are fri>m six | to eight, the communicants four or five. No answers have been transmitted from the I other townships of this district, but the petition on fhe table has received the signa- tures of 203 persons in the township of Augusta, in '.he county of Grenville and eastern section of the district, principally heads of families, representing a Presbyterian nouula- tion of 804 souls—p. p. 279. 280. r s / i- p •t lis Ijfiiig Episco- tily |(irfoii!ie(l, is u is by Mr. Slued, a iitly by tiic IVesby- LTgyiiien ot eitliur any ileiioiiiiiiatiuii. Iiurcli of Eiiglaiitl iit,'e on the River It (ienumiiiution in •ein-esentution. CO, there is not a intofthe religious •ray : 22j Presby- I Baptists, 18Uni- li, but are under- portioas, viz. 227 ers. t Johnstown, but , in the township ijusta. There are : out often town- t. The number of I Churches in the rers at the former arers are fri>m six msmitted from the jceived the signa- nviile and eastern ^sbyterian popula- REMARKS IN REPLY TO No. 3. There was cood reason to suppose, of which evidenrc now exists, that Ancaster Church would be Episcopalian ; — reason sufficient to account for Dr. Strachan's beuig under the impression that it actually was so. A good congregation assembles every Sunday in Barton church, where the Reverend R. Iteming, of tiie Church England is the oit/i/ miiiisler who officiates, and the con- gregation is principally Episcopalian. With regard to the Chui'ch at Woolwich, a promise had been made on the part of a gentleman, a landed proprietor in that neighbourhood, to build a church, which pconiisc Dr. Straclian supposed had been fulfdled. Re>;j)ect;ng Uiindas he appears to have been incorrect, but, there also a (!■ ^ire to erect an Episc'>pal Church has been manifested, and a s ibscription set on foot for that purpose. Thj object, however, k'CS not yet been accomplished. .3y reference to Mr. Grant's evidence respecting the district of Newcastle, it will be seen tha"; no mention whatever is made of the township of Hamilton. At Cobourg, in that town- ship there is ai\ Episcopal Chuicli, and a very large congregation, principally of the Cli ix n of England. The total number attending the ministrations of the clergyman of that j 'a v- (thc Reverend A. IJethune,) is 10S;S, of which 884 jire Ei>iscopaliaiis, aul'.K) ejmnuinic...its. The reason of the oini.ision is thus sullicieiitly apparent. Mr. Hethime also serves the church at Port Hope, which, as well as that at Cobourg, is a substantial and well-liiii-hed edifice of considerable size. In Murray and its vicinity, not to mention all the townships s;)ecific(l by Mr. G'.ant, the iiumlier attending the ministry of the Churth of England missicmary exceeds l,0('0 |)erson». There are 200 adherents of the Chiu-eh in Murray alone ; tin- wiiole numbei" of communicants is 4G. — in the township ot'Mur- there are but three families of the Kirk of Scotland, and three others ihrouglwut a very considerable extent ot country adjacent. Mr. Grant has been led intc some mistake respecting the township of Leeds, in which there never has been nny Episcopal church. In the TownsWpof Brjckville and its immediate vicinity, the congregation i)eIonging to the Church is about 80 regular Episcopalians, of whouj l.'i are coiiim!iiiica-'is. — Hut in the townslii]) in which Brockville is situated there arc 400 persons wIid aH( ii.l tlie preach- ing and protit by the ministrations of the missionary of the Cliureli (jf lltigland. in this township, (I'^lizabethtown.) the Episcopalians and Pnsbyterians are eipially divided, each amounting in number to 700 ; among tiie latter, however, it must he remarked thj-.t ouly 100 profcjs to belong to the Kirk of Scotland. At the several places where Mr. Elms officiates fr. the townships of Yonge, Bastard, &C., in the former of which the Episcopal Church was some years ago burnt down, the average total number of his hearers is 200. — Within the circuit of his mission there are 764 Episcopalians of whom he reckons 30 communicants. — The total number of Presby- terians in these townships is 385, of which number 2/6 belong to the Kirk of Scotland. In Augusta 250 attend the ministrations of the Church of England missionary: — Within the limits of whose cure there are 450 Episcopal iatjs, £,5 of whom are communicants. — The number of Presbyterians in Augusta is passed without notice by Mr. Gr-iiit :— They amount to 154. of whom, however, only six are stated to belong to the Church of Scotland. — ^The Episcopal missionary serves two churches within the township and also visits occasionally the congregations atOxford and Marlborough, at the distance of aboutSO miles, where a field is onen for a separate Episcopal mission ; and a church has been erected at the latter place. 10 MR. GRANT'S STATEMEft«rr. LOIFER CANADA. No. 3. In Lower Canada about five-sixths of the prtpulation is Roman Catholic. At Goteau du Lac, the r're*byterian population exceeds 400 souls ; there are very few (if hny) members of the Church of England or dissenters in tliat vicinity, p. 280. No. 4. The followinij is the census of the township of Rawdon, (a settlement recently formed) — ^92 Presbytei-ian families, 72 Roman Catholic, and 20 Ejjiscopalian. There is a minister of the Church of England established in this township. T':e village and neighbourliond of Lachine contains about 239 Presbyterians and 70 Episcopalians, p. 280. I No. 5. From tlie village of Laprairie and the surroundin>, country the petition hfts received the signatures of l63 heads of families, representing GOO souls. There is a Scotch settle- ment at St. IVtor's, and another about sixteen niik';; from Laprairio, chiefly couii)ost'd of Scotti.-h Pi'i-f-bytenaiis, From the seigniory of Heauliurnois, the petiiion before the CommittcH' l):;s been sii^iu'd by IfiS individuals, principally Scotch, repix'sentiiin a popula- tion of 791. In the Soltlenienls of North and .Soiitii Oeorgetown, and part of Williams- toxruj lliere is a population ol'.'^tir) I'resbj tcrians of thi- Chiu-cli of J'cotland. A Presbyterian i.'hureh lia>^ been creeled at South (leori;etoun, but it is not provided with a ejergynian. — In oth'r piirts of the siime seigniory iuid llie adjoining one of La Salle, the Presbyterian pojiiilatiuii exceeds WM persons; 9^ heads of families, representing 477 souls, in the foVMisiiij) of t^iindi'e ; and tO heads of families, representing -131 souls, resident ut Isle .lux Noi.t, have also signed the petition, p. 280. )Hc. At Goteau ry few (if hiiy) lenient recently iilian. There is 'he village and alians. p. 280. u lifts received Scotch settle- y composed of ion before the iitiim ii popula- rt of Wiilianis- A Presbyterian ;i cjcrgvnian. — 10 Prci^byterian ' souls, ill the resilient at Isle 11 REMARKS IN REPLY TO No. 3. Mr. Grant is certainly very incorrect in statincr, respecting the Church at Coteau du ^ac that there are very few (if awj) of its incinbtrs in the vicinity. As well from other neans of aciiuaintancc with the subject, as from information afforded by the Rev. S. J. .dountain ut Coniwall, it is known that a good conirregation always assembles whenever lie vi-^its that place; that many of them are Episcopalians, and all generally well disposed towards the Ch- rcii, the strongest and best evidence of which is this, tlia» the Protestant Inhabitants are engaged at tiiis moment in preparatory measures for building a church, to be served by a Church of England minister. I REMARKS IN REPLY TO No. 4. With respect to the township of Rawdon, in which Mr, Grant represente the number of Episcopalians to be so small, it is rather singular that there arc 450 Protestants attending the ministration of the Rev. Mr. Burton, the missionary of the Church in that township. And that according to the returns of the same gentleman, forty of that number are in full communion with'the Church. If Mr. Grant's statement is not incorrect a very favorable instance of the readiness of the Presbyterians to join the worship and profit by the mmistra- tionsof the Episcopal clergy is here presented. Rawdon, however, is only the Hcad- qnarters of a widely extended mission, containing many scattered Episcopalians atotTier places, and among these a considerable number of communicants. At Lachine the average congregation which attends upon the ser\'ices of thcRev. fl.B. Stevens, Jhaplain to tlio Forces^in Montreal, who regularly visits that village, is 40, and sometimes amounts to 00. The Protestants of Lachine, professing to be members of the Church of England are 100 in number. This is one of those places to which the attention of the Presbyterian ministers has been called by the previous exertions made by the Episcopal Clergy, and in which there had been every prospect of a religious union among the Protestants. REMARKS IN REPLY TO No. 5. After thus stating, with whatever correctness, the ro))?;)rtrrt^'i'e numbers in some town- ships whore Mr. Grant has been informed that the Presbyterians preponderate, he mentions Lapiairie, trif/wut am/ comjiaratirc stutonaif, and brings forward the ciicumsiance of the signatures oflG3 persons in that village and neighbourhood, representing (iOO souls, to the Presbyterian petition. Had llw ((iiiiparulirc stutvincnt hcen giicn in /his inatdncc n.i in those precciliii", it would have been highly unfavouralile to the Presbylorians, who, as (here is reason to believe, do not nniount to more than one third of the Piclestaiil population ; and it may most safely bo affirmed that the evidence ofllie signatures amounts to pioci-ely nothing ^(^11 it bein" a fact perfectly ascertained that signatures to this petition were procured froiil persons of all denominations,— and in many instances in a manner affording as little real indi- cation of any sort of deliberate judgment of the parties upon the subject, as is usual where popular petitions are put about. In the same manner it is to be observed upon the remarks which next follow, reapepting the seigniory of Beauharnois^ind that of La Salle, and the settlements in the former of North and South Georgetown and Williamstown,— (and the observation applies generally to Mr. Grant's evidence,)— that tlie numerical statements which fiivor the intere»t ofllie Church of S(:btland are properly to be regartledas sderlions, and the signatures to the peiition which are menlibned are to be thrown wholly out of the question. That the.Chnrch of England is not without friends and supporters in the ^ract of country here describad, will appear trom the followina extracts from the reports of a Missionary who is employed by the Bishop to make occaBiohll circuits in that quarter :— eport of 1827, (respecting the Irish settlement in Sherrington.)—" I preached ersons, baptized 9 childien and churched 12 women. These are all Episco- From the rep to nearly 100 jiersons, bapt , ■ i palians and arc warmly attached to our church and conformed to the services with much unanimity and devotion." From thereportofl829,(respecting the same settlement.)— "Preached to about 100, bap- tised 13 children, churched 9 women, an ^" "«« No answers have been received from the district of Gaspd ; but I am warranted io K5;eri'r.4!2S°"''°'''"''"""^«^"'' ''"'' '''' g.eat'^majority of the^opleVr: REMAUKS IN REPLY TO NO. i\ CONTINltD. \§ From llie report of 1858, (rc-.pecting Ornu-stown.)— " The names o( b'ti lannlit siven aie compiisinij 140 souls who now rusuio LunvenioiU to the spot, anJ who arc t'hiirch..'. With wlmt aid they will receive tVoin Mr. Brown uiul others, 1 thin will raise the sum of £200," (towards the erection of a churcii. ) From the same, (respectinr; lluntinj^don, 10 miks from Ormestown.)—-' There families containing 'i40 souls favorably iiiclii.ea to our Cluircli, within a icasonable il from this place; anil alihopgh many are poor. I ihinU with a little assistance they able to accomplish it." (the erection of a cluirch.) From the report of 1829, (re.-pectiii;j iluntini;,! on again.)—" Mr. Howron," (t vernmem Land Ajjent,) " intends to procure most ut ;he materials an. I have the hanie this season." s were of our k they are 40 istnnce will he he Go- eiected The proposed sites for the churches at Or.neflown and Huntingdon are ten miles ai)ait. REMARKS IN REPLY TO No (J. hree Rivers. It i* Nicolet are at least cr of the Church of ountry. There is an jrly performed by a tliiii the parish con- s another Protestant imilies, the majority on is also the most tlie followinff infor- St. Patrick 45, and the Chnrcli of Scot- of Scotland, and 23 lid prefer the minis- the Cluirch of En- sns, and 15 Episco- t St. Charles Belle abitants who do not I am warianted in y of the people ivr* The cviilence afforded with respect to ihc . imp.irativt- numhciv of Epi:^copalians and Presbyterians iu Three Rivers and Nicolet is professedly only tuuiidcd on Mii,-[Kj.ition, and that it is grossly inaccurate can therefore be no matter of surprise. "It is believed," says Mr. Grant, " that the Preshyteri.uis in the town of Three ftivers are at least eipial in number to the Episcopalians." The returns of the Rev. F. Evans, duly certified iu the manner before mentioned, furnish the following statements : IN THE PAHISH OF TIIRKG RIVERS, Total attending Ins preaching, not including children,. . 304 El'i^^Hi""^ %^ Cominiinicants, ■''' Pn-l3yn'n»"S 5t Methodists, '^^ IN TUB I'AHISH OF NICOLET. Total number of Protestants, '15 Kpi^t-<>Hi='"^> 'S Communicants '•' At Riviere dn Loup, Mr. Grant proceeds to state that there are only three Episcopa- lian famiru"^. R^■^l)l•ctin^' this, it need only be remarked that the Rev, J. C. Dnscoll, the missionary at Riviere du Loup, has within the limits of his mission (according to the rctiu'u made by him) as large a number as 78 communicants. REMARKS IN REPLY TO No. 7. In all the Protestant settlements within reach of a stated or occasional visit from the clergv of Quebec, the population is very mixed, but was at one time strongly disposct to coalition under the banner of the Church of Ei.glaud, to which the great body ot them might yet, perhajis, be brought over. It will be seen here ( as in lormer in stances)— 1st, that the comparative statement is given by Mr. Grunt, m places where, according to his information, it is greatly in favor ot the Presbyterian cause .— 2(1 that" in other places the numbers of Pn'shi/terians onli/, ov ot the Lhurcli of • • '' ' allirmed that there are /() Srotland onlv, are staled :— od. that in one place it is ...„.,.,.,....... ...^.^ .-.- . pcr.snii.s who 'tvoitld prefer the miidstrutioiis of a clergyman „j llie Umnli of .SvoHuiid iim\fiie /unities of the Ciiu.'ch of England. To this it may be atlded,--4th. tluU some set- tlements are wholly omitted. These statements may be remarked upon seriatim. I.— It IS tielleved, but the means are not at present at command to ascertain with cer- taiiitv, that the proportions are inaccurately given. There being no re.-ulcnt clergyinan in any of these settlements, the same kind of returns have not been received Iroin them as from other places. I.— At Vakarticr and Lake Beauport there is good reason to suppose the Episcopalinns Cdual in number to the Presbyterians. At St. Patrick's the case is jirobably the same. 2.- to be etjual III iiiiiiiuM iw ,,.v ..^.^.,j.^ --- . i i i in These are some of the new settlements on the north side of the St. Laurence, ami iiie wiioic D 14 I f number ot M sCttlt'llKMll^ 1 of Viilcartii J to go to scl i MR. GRANTS STATEMENT. No. 8. Uic Presbyterian congregaiion in the city of Montreal, under the charge of a minipier in connection witli a Presbytery in New York, consists of between GOO and 700 persons, while the two others, iindsr the ministration of clergymen of the Church of Scotland, are composcd^of between 800 and 1,000 persons each ; the number of communicants in one of the latter is ^35, in the other 170, Dr. Harkness' congregation in the city of Quebec is consti- tuted of about 1,200 or 1,500 persons, the number of communicants about ."300, There is also aroihrr congregation in the city of Quebec under the ministration of :i cler"yinan, a ualive of England, but who had resided as a clergyman in the United States of America. Fn these towns, where there have been Episcopalian clergymen since the conquest and cession of tlie country, and one of them the residence of the Lord Bishop tor the last 35 years, the Prcsbyteiians are more numerous than the Kpiscopalians. This assertion is made, as well from personal knowledge, ns far as respects MonlreBl, aa upon certain data relating ns well to Monueal as Quebec. Tht 1 ing,andi conclusi ge of a minifiter nd 700 persons, of Scotland, are ints in one of the liicbec is consii- t .']00, Tlieio is fa clergyman, a if America. c the conquest p tor the last Ja pects Monireal, REMARKS IN REPLY TO NO. 7, roNTINUED. 1^ i,uu>bci- of persons onlinaiilv attending tl.c nun.strat.ons of the Clmrch of England ni tl.o-=e To t WKM.ts is stated in tl.c returns to be 2;5(). In one detaclie.l nart ot tl>e ^.ngle settlement of V'llcartier, ti.e people have declared that there arc upwards ot hfty chddren of an age to go to school, all of tlie Church of England. 3 -There can be very little doubt that a great part of these 70 pot-sons might have been induced to render an acoiint of their wishes in the same way in favo.; ot the hurch E..-la..d, had her .ninisters endeavoured Nvhen among them to procure .t 1 he Church c er"v hav.'been verv acceptable in all that tract of country .wh.cb includes M.C.i es, Leeds Jnvcu-ness, rrampton', and St. Charles. A census was taKer. ol the I'rotestant population hut ^ ithoutcl stingu shing the ditferent denominations, by the present visiting missionary ot the lo'ese n the year 1827. It then amounte.l to 881 souls, and the strongest in.hcations were atVorded of a disposition to unite in one with the Ei.iscopalian part ot it, could the Church have established an elfective mission among them. 4 — Tlic townshii) of Stoncham, fifteen miles north of Quel.ec, is one of those of which no notice is taken. The IVotestant population consists ot 4--> persons ot whom lour arc iCbvtcri uis and all the rest Episcopalians. The township ot Ireland south ol Quebec isSomiUed, where there is knoNvn to be a considerable number ot Church of England settlers. At Metis the Protestant inhabitants, when assembled in a body for divine worship, profcted t, aclergvman of the Church of England, who had suppose.l the great majority w be ri-esbvteria::" and was surprised at tlieir expressing a wish tor some provision to • e rs|, r t I'al wants, through his intluence, that they were pretty e.,ually divided, a.ul all •1 nf' o unite, should an Episcopal clergyman be p aced among them. 1 he services^ ot hi clergvn an were acknowle.lged in writing in the ha.u somest nuuiner a.i.l ... the very s tro.'ffe«f ^"m^oi'!?^ l^V the Sei.^neur of the place, himselt a Scotch l'resbyteria..a.id a us tec- of t e Scol'h Church in' Quebec ; and whe.. it was menfoue.l to him as a thu.g of couJse that he woul.l e.ideavour U. place a Presbyterian ministe.- there he spoke ot i s a noh t n, ite uusettle.l, which Church woul.l be there plante.l, and said that he should leave t 'dolTy to the peop e the.nselves to .uake their arra.igeme...s as ...ight sn. them. I e hassin(!cack..oNvl-dged i.. a si.nilar way, the visit of another cle.-gy.nan ot the Church ot Engla.id. Tl.c district of Gaspc is .livide.l l.ito two missions of the Chm-ch of England. 1.. the Gasn?Bay . issL., the whole ...ass of the Protestant populat.o,. .s of tl.c ^1... ch of r.M'...d in •!.. in- a few Methodists at o..e settle...ei.t, who have ..ot re..ounce.l the.r E gla.id, .ntiufiin .L« of Chaleurs .nission, there are a good ..ia..y tamilies „dhe.-e..ce to ' ''-■ ^^ " '^' ;.,J .';';,^ ^,^,';^ i, ,, Sc.tch settle.n.-nt^.t New Kichmond, rTir' Si o rS™.;? ^i nSn aue s the ministrations of the Episcopal ...issio.jary, 'S it Visaed: Slouih Smt a,.y precise iutbr.natio... that the regular Episcopal.a..s mc not fewer in nu.nbcr than the Presbyterians. REMARKS IN REPLY TO No. 8. 1M „;„n,-rn,iciesand mistakes in this part of Mr. Giant's evidence a.c multiplied and ghir- • . .ni^le' ho ^les^dr s ni , . tionahly 'at variance vvith the fleets of the cas.yvh.c . are ,nost Ssivo .•Uhlesp'a prepo^Klerance of the Church of England ... both c.t.s. In .he first .Mace t.om the time of the appointment of Chaplains to ll>^^;'•7« '" '/Jf' In the ""'Pia^iionu. ,,,,..-"/ ^^ j,,,^ been registeied '^ willi tlwse of the V'-" "'V^A.;^:?' T .'^.Z't vi f es. U is believed tha^ the d..ty performed by the statements to have been performed by the Episcopal Clergy. But it will bo p.oper to consider the two cities separately. First with respect to Montreal. In thiscitv Mr Ciiant informs the Committee that the P.esbyierianB of the Kifl' ^':« '•' 16 MR. grant's statement NO. 8, CONTINUED. The following is an account of the number of marriages, &c. performed by the clergy- men of the English and Scotch Churches, including the Chaplains to the Forces in Quebec and Montreal, taken from the registers of the difl'erjiit ministers, which are deposited annually with the Prolhonotaries of the Courts of King's Bench, as required by law. The garrison at Quebec "cnerally consists of two regiments, besides artillery, tngineers, commissariat and other departments; at Montreal of one regiment, less one or two companies, artillery, engi- neers, stair coips, commissariat and other di,'paitments, who are attended by chaplains to the forces, and the services perfurnud hij such chajtlains are registered with those of the Epis- copal c'^rgi/ ■■ — In Quebec for 11 years, up to ^\st December, 1821, EPISCOPALIANS. Marriages 340 Boptisins 1099 Funerals I6S6 PRESBYTEKIANS. Marriages 555 Baptisms 966 Funerals 69H In Mt:!frcal,for 12 years, up toSlst December, 1S21. i. EPISCOPALIANS. Marriages 377 Ba|)tisins 900 Funerals ItiOl phesiiyteuians. Marriages 7^5 Baptisms 1744: Funerals 1022 The disproportion between funeraU and baptisms, may be accounted for from the num- bers of persons Ijehmginn; to the military who died in the hospitals, of sickness and wounds, during the late war. — p. 281. I :d. rrned by the clergy- irces in Quebec and depusiteil annually law. Tile garrison , commissariat and lies, artillery, enjji- by chaplains to the tliii.sv of the Epis- 553 966 698 J on 1744 1022 for from the nuin- mess and wounds, REMARKS IN REPLY TO NO. 8, CONTINUED. IT % «ilh the Sl^^f the heads of cnch funily. From l.i. infonn.t.on, .t nppoais ,h,.i the nun.- besoftt^.rch of lv.,h.nd ,n ,he ,lnish of Mo,u,e.l a.e t,hb. J '-»''- '>|;';;,;'- incUul n- the Chmch of Scuih.nd. Secetcs and A.nenca,, I ro^l.ytenans oM^. Mrm^KhMs 337 BHpt.L:;0, Quaker. 'J. .!ews 5(i. • naU.uhed l-J.-The cou.mun.canu ,n the Church of England in the parish of Montreal arc Oil. Mr Grant exhibits a return of the comnavative numh.^r of cnve-i.-trations of baptisms, „iarria..c-and burial,, as iMMloruied by the Scutch and hn;.,N. (.lej.^y >n th.--. low„s Irom Tesu'ct .0 aptisnts an 1 n.ar. ,a.es. liu.. i,. n.akinu' this a te.t ot the co,n,,a,at,v<. pnin- -fon the e is a ci cun,-.ancc ol .;,-'' in.por.anc- wluch u>„st be (.k-n ,:.t.. the a.-cunt. 1 h. e , nota inMe ,o,ulon. cIcmuv nan of ,l,e Church o >c..t!uml n, ,l,o whole l'r.,v,,a-rxc..,. at Q ,ebec and Montreal, vshncas there are not le,s than halt a .Uu.n nun>Me,s o( he ( hnuh of Ka"d I ^iations wnlnn a dav'. journey imu, .he iat-cr c.y. Sue . ol tne I'u.hy.onaus. tWl . e as are strongly auache 1 to .hen own foru:s cou.e k. Monueal ,ou. a con. Je,able d -un elo be.nanied by .hei, own nn-a^t.MS a. d to h.ve .he,r chUhen ^^^'j'^- • J 'I'/.'- is t Ic" sa.ne with .espec. to .heir com nanicau.s, (whose numb.-rs a.e aUo Uled by M . G a.'. ) instances Ik. ,. km.wu of their cou>i..<- a .l,>..,.,ce ol boa, .>() .o OO nnles It >s .Li- ft ental e ar Is iheirTuueraU : such ..f the l'res!,y.e,ians n, co„n.,y phue, a-. .lo not n-orr iolhe neares . in.s.erof.he CMMO.-h of lin.laMd, naturally bury tlu-r d,...d wuhout auy reh- So s c" euony.thisbein.infact , >e .ule of ,he Chu.ch of Scnland, and ... iha country very f^ral V lloved. Tins coMsidna.ion be.u^' bon,- m> .nu.d the I merals wd! be lound to f. ish it 1 eas us fair a cri.eri,.., at Montreal, whe-e, accoubn,' .o Mr (..ant s own s.a.e- ^n hee i u^xcess.,r^i:J()on.he side of the Hn.b.h Chu.cl, ..s the bap.rsm, or ...ar- ^ "es Mr (irant, indeed, accounts for the di.p.opor.uK, ex,M.n« be.ween the luue.als and bap'^ms " i.Hn tl^ nuu.lu.r of persons belougiug to the .„; b.a.y who o,ed ,n the ho-pnu. fro Kkne-s and svonnd. durin. .he late war," but ,. w. I be seen that he a.-,.;,., a » i ^" le. nte ca se, when it is reu,embered that .ca.cely a s.ngle battle was lou^ht clu, ,.? .he lite war in the nei.hba.trhood of MoaUeal -, - and that ..o woutrded >«en were brought thete except such as were convalescent and but lew of these. follows is for ihe years 1827 and 1828. By the Rector of the Parish, Chaplain to the For- 1827. EPISCOPALIANS. sh,t irces BAPTISMS. 208 **' "8 MAnHIACKS. o4 8 UU It I A 1.3 127 22 286 PRESI5YTr.!M.V\S. Minister of the principal Scotch Church,. • lai,es, and the Church of England has probably acqut.ed the natne ?f bein" striTand particular. Whatever circumstance it may be owing to, a sort of fashion amon^so. eof the lower orders has been produced ui going to the Scotch ministers tor mar- rZ ^vTwhei. there is no doubt or irregularity,) and it is notorious that many c-jj. « hav«, been .narried by tbe minister of the Kirk when both parties belonged to the Church oj Lngl.nd. With respect also to baptism?, the institution of sponsors frec,uently opposes a b^ in the Eoiscopal CMnirch, and parents consequently resort to the ministrations ol the Church of Scm3 who are quite as well or better affected to the former. For example, the Methodist body are known loT,ofess attachment moreorless to the Church of England, and to a certain extent inemtosh"p with her, yet it is to the Scotch minister that they generally apply tor bantUm ToJ Id ."^.e b 11 for extending the privilege of registe.s to D.>sente.s, now pending in "^he^VoviS Parliament pass into a law. there can be little doubt that the majority of numbersl^nthTihurchof England abovelhoseirtthe Church of Scoiknd would much more •tiikingly appear than from the existing system of registers. TheRecisters of the Church of Scotland at Quebec, ure also believed to incltide bapt Lu 2 marriages performed in circun.jaceut ProtestatU settlements, wh.ch ts not the case with those of the Church ot England. * In confirmation of the evidence from the registers, an inference may be taken from the sittings oc!!!upTed respectively m the places of worship belonging to the two churches at Quebec. The Cathedral at Quebec, in which not only all the sittings -^'^ '■'^''^ ''P'yp^ '^°^J" always in demand than can be afforded, accommodates. .......... U/ persons. The sUUngs let in the Chapel of the Holy Trinity were, when the mfor- ^^ ,„rjoim"^r'ai;StK;;v^;>^;iw'nouefti.;;;3wVJ^^ at diSe service, of whom, perhaps 200 also attend at the Cathedral, leaving the attendants upon the Chapel only,— at. ... ..... • • • • • • •• • '"" Si tt?ngs fn use in the several places of worship of the Church of England excluding those occupied by the same person m different places, and -^ stated at the lowest In connection with the Church of Scotland, there is only one place of worship, called St AndX"sChurd frequented by a highly respectable congregation, which, a,co,-d,ng to inSmrtion obtained from a creditable member of that congregation contains 200 «UtnLsTlXchS 900are inoccupation. The "other congregation" mentioned by m! Grant is erved b/a n^nister of the Independent persuas.o.,, and so tar from maniSsting any partLtlar desire to unite with the Church of Scotland, ts partly composed of persons who have left that Church to jom 't. Ilnon what grounds Mr. Grantcan have been led to say, in his evidencegivcn on the 17th TunprnlS that the coi^formity of members of the Church of Scotland to the Church of Endand ^ the citfes of Quebec and Montreal, has been attributable either to the cncu.n- SaSe of their iSg been unprovided with pastors of their own, or to ,«/ere,v/ the latter Church hSebee^the « it is impossible to con ecturc. 1 here have Se^LS of the Church of Scotlantl at Quebec, from the earliest «^^^t"W.^ '■."'«[ m,li;hwe.er, bosafelydcclarBlu,te wilhoutthc «»« offounil.t.on. P 22 MR. GRANTS STATKMKNT No. y. share in the i...,. ruction of youth. ^\.'' '';.,,; .'^lu. i .ai.l out of the luu.is of the -cliool?. r . .„i.. ..11 Hu- schools 'stablislicd hv the authority of Government nrc under In Lcjwer Canada '' '_'J^,^^; '" ,%<\"j k„v.-.1 Instituiion for the mlvance.nent bf learn- tlic direction of a corporation, ^t>lc ""^ ',>;'''' , M,,„,i,-rsot the llpisconaliim Lhureh, i,.,.- conu.oscdoftheJ^otcs.antB^>op Ce^^^^ ,,,I^ l,l.„,„ catl.olic one or two Presbyterian, anl";ir»»ri>l><~'' N ill iiiiit ri>'- "«^''i»;;:xi""''.«'^^^^^^^^ ■■'"';^;?-';r:;:.'?ri ■ ^-» 1..^ .. ,„ ,l,c ve»t 18-24, thcj ™™'"'™ tlc-L^^^^^^^^ ac" d.M of .he Clm,, 1. "(S™,l»>..l, vcrmncnt, .he •VVoi"'"""' ^-^ ^'^^^^tl^ ,ci!,„ie,y cf li.;."|i«"™-.-j' '^''^f i„ .1.0 el.ur«e ol a scliool at » lUinn.-.e'^" „ntiii-.il in i. sii.i.lar v.uy Ml...."- ™^.-c.-...ly»»>■■.« ».'- '•■•• ,:„„e,„Mo„ of.i.u whole ,.,«.. ^^."■R,^*^:;;:! Si.!' ;K=;° s^^ b,',.„l,ere ,l,e.el,.ve hf" ';''"»-'» J ' ,f .'„|, a.a.^" exer.io„s of .!« |..;oi.le 'l«,;"-'";, sv;s^::h^tf:e;5rh,,i,,e,i,..„--.^