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fiouse of Commons Bttiatcs 
 
 FOURTH SESSION-SIXTH PARLIAMENT. 
 
 SPEECHES OF HON. EDWARD BLAKE, M.P., 
 
 ON THE 
 
 NORTH-WEST TERRITORIES ACT. 
 
 TUESDAY, Gth MAY, 1890. 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. I think it impossible to attf.ch 
 too much in)i)ort(iiR'e to the point on whicli tlie 
 hon. member for West Assiniboia (Mr. Daviii) has 
 just enhirged. We are proposing to make a 
 departure from tlie principles of responsible 
 government, as we understand them, in a most 
 important particular. I admit that it is difficult 
 to deal with the exigency otherwise than it is 
 dealt with by this Bill, without responsible govern- 
 ment. The principle, as I understand it, is that, 
 with respect to the expenditure of jjidilic moneys, 
 it is the Crown that initiates, not the Assembly. 
 The Assembly is supposed to be a check, a guard, 
 to keep the drag on ; that is the function of the 
 popular body. I quite agree that eminent states- 
 men, not theorising, but dealing with actual 
 results in late years in the mother country, have 
 pointed out how fur the English House of Com- 
 mons has departed from the ancient traditions; 
 how far it has cease<l to be a bulwark and support 
 to the Administration in matters of prudence and 
 economy in public expenditure. But, none the less, 
 I hold it tf> b(! the most impoi'tant ingredient in se- 
 curing economy, an<l also good direction, in public 
 expenditure, that there shall be an initia,tive some- 
 where else than in the popular assembly, and, deeply 
 as I differ from the hon. member for West Assiniboia 
 (Mr. Davin) as to his characterisation of the ex- 
 penditures that have taken place in t)ii8 House, or 
 rather with the sanction.of tliis Housj, I say they 
 are, beyond all comparison, better, more prudent, 
 and wiser than they would have been if such a 
 system as we are proposing to give the North- 
 West Territories had existed here. We have had 
 a few instances, I am glad to say only a few, of 
 attempted departure from that system. There have 
 been perhajis three. cases, three only occur to my 
 mind at this moment, in which select committees 
 have fiubstir dally, though not nominally, been 
 allowed to leal with old claims in oi'der, I am 
 afraid, that .-he Executive might escape the re- 
 sponsibility, with the inevitalne result that the 
 claims were allowed ; but, subject to those trifling 
 exceptions, which only mark the rule, we liave 
 observed the rule. We are not without experience 
 in this matter in thQ old Province. In the early 
 
 days of the old Legislature of Canada, prior to 
 1840, when, as you know, we had a system which 
 was not a system of responsible government, 
 although there were Ministers representing the 
 Crown, at that time, as Mr. Bourinot says : 
 
 "All applications fur pecuniniy assistance were ad- 
 dressed directly to the House ot Assembly, and every 
 Governor, especially Lord Sydenham, has given his testi- 
 mony aa to ',ni injurious eiioct of the systetn. The Union 
 Act of 18-ir plKced the initiation of raiiny votes in the 
 Crown, and tnia wise practice was always strictly followed 
 .?n to 18*^7, whon 'he new Constitution came into force." 
 
 And we know thfl language of tiie present Constitu- 
 tion provides expressly : 
 
 "It shall not be lai'ful for the House of Commons to 
 adopt or pass any vote, ri^golution, address or Hill for the 
 appropriadon of any part of the public revenue, or of any 
 tax or impost, to any purpose that has not been first re- 
 commended by a Message of the Governor General, in the 
 the Session in v^hich such vote, resolution, address, or 
 Bill is proposed. ' 
 
 A similar provision is inserted in the Constitution 
 of each Provincial Legislature. Now, as I have 
 said, I see the difficulty in which hon. gentlemen 
 opposite were plunged when they came to deal 
 with this question, because they have got one or 
 two alternatives to adopt. They have to adopt 
 the language we tincUhere, which says : 
 
 " The expenditure of such portion of any moneys appro- 
 priated by Parliament for the Territories, as the Governor 
 in Council may instruct the Lieutenant Governor to ex- 
 pond, by and with the advice of the Legislative Asacm- 
 b'.y." 
 
 That is to say, the advice of the Assembly is to rule. 
 They had that course open to them. Or the course 
 was open to them of providing that the Lieutenant 
 Governor should send down his Message, and with- 
 out that Message it should not be competent for the 
 Legislative Assembly to deal with the (juestion at all. 
 There you would at once be face to face with irres- 
 poii»i'<!c r'lle. The Legislative Assembly cannot 
 cundenm the Lieu'snaut Governor, or dismiss 
 him, or alter his position in any way, his advisory 
 council is not responsible ; and you are brought face 
 to face with a difficulty which must subsist for the 
 want of responsible government. But, on the other 
 hand, what are we doing by the proposed plan ? We 
 are deliberately initiating that system which wac 
 
deliberately tiluvniloned in the early history of the 
 old Province, where it was tried with injiii'ious 
 rexults, whieli has Ijeen deliberately rendei'ed 
 impossible Ity the constitutional Act, aa to this 
 Assembly and as to the Provincial Legisla- 
 tures, and wliicli is decide<lly opposed to the 
 spirit of the British Con-ititntion. The Inni. gen- 
 tleman from A ssiniboia has told nr. of tiie method 
 of the expenditure of the scanty funds, whicli 
 up to this time the Lt^gislativc Asscnddy lias 
 been allowed to expend. It is not an entirely 
 new method of expenditure, because, I happen 
 to know, that in the Province of Nova Scotia there 
 are certain nunieys callcrl "road moneys," the 
 disposal of which has been placeil under the 
 control of nieml'crs ; but, even there, the (jues- 
 tion of deciding as to how much shall go to each 
 county is decided according to constitutional princi- 
 ple, while the iletailed application has been left, w'ith 
 very injurious residls, to the local members. But 
 the lion. geiitU'inaTi tells us, that in this ease the 
 total fund to be dis])osed of is divided by the num- 
 ber of constituencies, and each member is given his 
 equal share. ("It course, it is impossible to sup- 
 pose, that in a territory like tlie Nortli-West, in 
 wliich, with the best possible desii-e, you cannot 
 have equal areas with ecpuil wants all over, that 
 .An equal division oi money all over is a just 
 :. divisitni. AVhy, it is beyond all possibility that 
 such an arrangement can be just, and it is im- 
 
 Eortant that win. ': scanty funds are available should 
 e expended for such objects as may on the advice 
 of responsible Ministers, be submitted to the As- 
 sembly and as shall by the Assembly be deemed to 
 be for the general good. It might be that a par- 
 ticular district might be intinifely more benefited 
 in reality by the whole fund being expended out- 
 side of it, in an adjoining district ; its own im- 
 mediate local interests might be better served 
 by a large expenditure on a bridge or other means 
 of public communication, than ]jy being frittered 
 away in the district itself. Such a system as 
 this is one which certainly does not encourage 
 ns in the scheme of placing more funds in 
 this present fashion under the control of the 
 Assembly. I think, therefore, we are face to 
 face with a very serious question when we are en- 
 gaged in the work commenced in 1875, that high 
 and noVjle work for any Legislr vive Assembly, the 
 task of improving, as we were engaged then in the 
 task of inaugurating, the institutions under which 
 a large territory, to be inhabited at some future 
 day, we hope, by millions, may grow up and 
 prosper. 
 
 On section 3, 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. It occurred to me that it is a 
 very awkward name that is proposed. If you do 
 not use a name that is easily s])oken, it will not be 
 used at all. I felt sonu difficulty about making a 
 change, but it occurs to me that if a change is to 
 be made it would be a much easier mouthful to say, 
 Western Canadian Territories. 
 
 Sir JOHN A. MAOON ALD. The name mi^ht 
 be changed to Western Territories. Objection h. ^ 
 been taken to the word " North " as conveying to 
 the general public the idea of an arctic condition, 
 that tlie country was not very like the American 
 North- West, but was furthernorth, and possessed 
 a more severe climate, a shorter summer and a 
 
 longer wintei-, and for these reasons it was suggested 
 to drop the word " North." 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. It seems to me that the old name, 
 after all, wa.s not <levoid of truth, and tlie change 
 proposed will not alter the thermometer in winter 
 or in summer in any way whatever. My impres- 
 sion is that any announcement made to the world 
 at large, and particularly to the immigrating jmblic, 
 with the view of persuading tiiem that they are 
 not going to cold winters in the North-West, will 
 not have any efl'ect on any ser.sible man. 
 
 On sectitm 5, " 
 
 Mr. BLAKF;. As long as we lia\e not decided 
 to alter fundanientally the .system which exists, ami 
 which it is pi'opused by this Bill to continue, 1 do 
 not see, in the ab.sence of any complaint from the 
 A.ssembly, wliy we sliouhl interfere with the three 
 legal experts who do not vote. 1'lie only com- 
 plaint that can be made is that which the hon. 
 meml)er for North Simcoe {Mr. McCarthy) suggest- 
 ed, that their speeches are rather long. 
 
 Mr. McCarthy. There is a petition against 
 them. 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. I was not aware of that ; I did not 
 find, on looking at the petitions, that there was 
 any complaint against them. My own impres.sion 
 strongly is, that if a small executive council were 
 granted to the Territories, which, I think, ought 
 to be granted, the expei'ts should disappear ; and 
 my opinion is that the people of the country them- 
 selves w<juld find it necessary to elect to the Assei 
 bly a certain limited number of gentlemen c ~ ' 
 ciioed in the law, so that their Assembly mij. . not 
 he n, fmrliivnunt mn indovtum,a.H a well-known 1 arlia- 
 nient was, from which, I lielieve, the lawyers were 
 altogether excluded. They would thus obtain as 
 much trained assistance as they thought necessary ; 
 and if they chose to do without it, nobody but 
 themselves would lie the sufferers. With refer- 
 ence to the number of members, I was not in a 
 position, of course, to hear the whispers of the 
 North West ; but I heard what were not whispers 
 here. I heard the hon. member for Saskatchewan, 
 at aii early period of the Session, declare that 
 complaints were made with reference to the dis- 
 tribution of <listricts in the North-West, and 
 particularly with refWence to those in the region he 
 represents ; and, if necessary, some remedy ought to 
 be applied to that. If there be a subject with which 
 the Territorial Assembly might be supposed to be 
 bettei- conii)etent to deal than any other, it is in . 
 what way the country should be divided for local 
 representation. How is it possible for us to form 
 an intelligent appreciation of that sul>ject ? We 
 have to take upon trust the statement of the 
 Minister who .studies the subject, with his know- 
 ledge of the country from the maps, and the state- 
 ments of tke four members from the North-West 
 Territories. We cannot judge how things are. 
 We cannot give an intelligent vote upon the ques- 
 tion of the arrangement of districts. They are, 
 in a country of that description, arrangements 
 which require an intelligent acquaintance, not 
 merely with the census, but with the prospects of 
 growth and i\ ith the particular regions in which 
 those prospects are jbrightest. It is an evil to 
 change frequently, and in this country we know 
 that, in older days, when changes were made, we 
 recognised the view that newer sections — as, for 
 
 / 
 
3 
 
 example, the County of Bruce and the County of 
 Renfrew — shouhl he, as regarded population, over- 
 repiesented for a wlulc, because we expected that an 
 influx of population would redress the difference. 
 That is all a matter to lie heat considere<l by the 
 Assembly itself, and, therefore, I think that the 
 readjustment of the electoral districts might be 
 well left to the Aijsenibly. The only question is 
 whether we should give them the power to increase 
 the number of districts, and the only dilBculty in | 
 regard to that is what the First Minister has sug- 
 gested, that they may unduly increase the number 
 of districts Ijecause it is a poj)ular thing to do, be- 
 cause there are many who in 'small districts might 
 thus obtain po.-sitions of prominence, and possibly of 
 niolunient, whicli they otherwise could not. If 
 we tliink it necessary so f.ir to hamper and restrain 
 the action of the Assend>lj', that difficulty might 
 be remeilied liy providing .i maxiimtm numberwhieh 
 would cover all demaiuTs for increased representa- 
 ticn for the next few years. We might say the 
 number .shoidd be thirty. We miglit give the new 
 Assembly, elected after the people have had that 
 (juestion' before them, the power to readjust the 
 districts, while not giving them the power to 
 increase the number of districts beyond a certain 
 maximum. 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Davin) 
 seems to think that until he came he 'e no one took 
 any interest in the North- West, but the fact is 
 that the North-\N'est owes whatever it possesses 
 of responsible government to the wisdom and 
 prescience of my hon. friend from East York (Mr. 
 Mackenzie), who, in 1875, proposed a measure 
 which contained the germ of all tlie representative 
 institutions the North- West has to-day. The hon. 
 gentleman may learn, what he evidently does not 
 know, that for many years gentlemen on this side 
 of the House pressed upon the Government, by 
 speech and by vote, the necessity of extending the 
 representative principle here to the North-Wef.i. 
 of responsible government ; and I am sure tha*;, 
 whatever doubts and fears we may have had before, 
 we may now congratulate ourselves upon the 
 ine'^timable blessings conferred upon the whole of 
 Canada, upon the North -West, and upon ourselves, 
 in having introduced my hon. friend to this House. 
 He says in the North- West there has been an 
 immi(jra1ion d'elift, and we here have the dfite 
 of the dlite, and we may judge what is 
 left there by the sample which they send us. 
 But the hon. gentleman ia quite right. So far as 
 the emigration from Ontario is concerned, and I 
 presume it is the same from the other Provinces, 
 there can be no doubt that by a proceaa of natural 
 selection they have got amongst the best and most 
 energetic men that were to be found among us ; and 
 I have no doubt whatever that that immigration, 
 taken on the whole, is of a very superior character- 
 just as, upon the same principles, the upper Pro, 
 vince was originally settled. 1 am old enough to re- 
 member the character of those settlers, at least of 
 some of them, living at an extreme old age, and I 
 can boar testimony that a great many of the earlier 
 settlers who came to this country at a period when 
 it was very difTerent from what it is to-day, when 
 there was no assisted emigration, no steamships, 
 no cleared lands, when bears and Indians wer"? 
 supposed to be the attractions of that country , 
 were men of the first rank. Those circumstances 
 
 indicate of themselves that the early settlers were 
 men of superior fo'-oe of character, men, I am afraid, 
 we must confe' A'ith humility, better, upon the av- 
 erage, than ir ,y of their sons and grandsons are. So, 
 in clegree, though not to the same extent, is the char- 
 acter of the immigration to the Nortli-Wi'st ; and 
 we must not, of course, keep such people as tliat m 
 leading strings ; we must deal with them as men of 
 capacity, as men of will, as men of resolution ami 
 ability ; and we must trust them with their own 
 fortunes, confident tluit if they nidjo nustakes, as 
 it is they wlio will suffer the cousecjuenccs, so they 
 will be aide to repair their errors. Such is the gen- 
 eral principle upon wlr'ch we ought to deal with 
 them, and in that view I am disposed — not forget- 
 ting that we have certain responsibilities towards 
 them and towards Canada until such period as we 
 give them full Provincial rights — 1 am disposed 
 largely to listen with great respect and attention 
 and deference to the decided and clearly expressed 
 voice cf the Territories themselves as to what is 
 foi' their adva.itage. 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. The right hon. gentleman is 
 quite correct in the two statements of fact lie has 
 made. It is quite true that the right hon. gentle- 
 man gave to ^lanitoba its present popular Constitu- 
 tion ; it ii also true that the right hon. gentleman 
 gave the 'Vorth-West Territories their reju-esenta- 
 tion in the House of Coi -nons, and obtamed his 
 four lambs, as he calle,l t.iem, but I prefer to call 
 them aheep, and I will not say of what color. 
 Revenona d no-; mou/oni. I .should like to tell 
 the reason why the right hon. gentleman gave 
 popular institutions to Manitoba, and gave repre- 
 sentation in this House to the North- West 
 Territories. That supervened which generally does 
 supervene before a Tory reform. There was a 
 rebellion first. The right hon. gentler lan gave the 
 peojile of Manitoba a paternal Constituuion ; he sent 
 up there a Lieutenant Governor, who never got into 
 the country ; and an alien Council, which coxdd not 
 get in either. Th(( people rose in rebellion against 
 him ; and then he came down here and gave them, 
 forsooth, provincial rights. And he now claims 
 credit for having given that which they obtained 
 at the point of the bayonet. St) much for Manitoba. 
 Then as to the Territories. Year after year wo 
 in this House, sitting on this side of the House, 
 inveighed against the aljsence of representation 
 from the Territories. Wepointedouttheirdistance, 
 their remoteness, the murmurs of complaint which 
 came from that country, and ^^e said it was abso- 
 lutely essential there should be a safety-valve, at 
 all events, for them, and guidance for ourselves. 
 We did not indeed know then how extensive, or 
 expansive, or expensive, that safety-valve would be ; 
 but we called for a safety-valve for them, for light 
 and information for ourselves. We asked for it, 
 we called for it, we pressed for it, we moved for it. 
 Deaf ears '--ere presented to us on those benches. 
 Another rebellion came, and the year after his 
 second rebellion the hon. gentleman gave repre- 
 sentation to the North- West Territories. 
 
 OTTAWA: 
 Printed by Brovn Cbambbrlin, Printer to the Queen'* 
 Most Excellent Majesty. 
 
 1890.