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Maps, plates, charts, etc., may be filmed at different reduction ratios. Those too large to be entirely included in one exposure are filmed beginning in the upper left hand corner, left to right and top to bottom, as many frames as required. The following diagrams illustra''« the method: Les cartes, planches, tableaux, etc., peuvent dtre film6s d des taux de reduction diffdrents. Lorsque le document est trop grand pour dtre reproduit en un seul clich6, il est filmd d partir de Tangle supdrieur gauche, de gauche d droite, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images ndcessaire. Les diagrammes suivants illustrent la mdthode. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 ^ "U ''i .■ ■( \'-,~' :j^ /^* ■ ■ ■x'.-K'v, THE PACTFIC RAILW^AY. c> JP JE JE C Jri DELIVERED BY Hon. Sir Charles Tupper, k.c.m.g.,c.b., M1N18TEK OF RAILWAYS AND CANALS, DURTNG TIIF nKHATK IN TlfE / 1 X. • f/. ■'■I 'i'-'v ■■■■;.:•>•• . i". • \-J «• .( '-J -I- ■;,>-P--^Jt > J '^ -C, It '^^ ^ ', ' '■■■. v«'.'^ ■ ■ ' ■ vm' ■ - HOUSE OF OOMMONS-SESSION 18801. I •-•*& (TITAWA: PiiiNTEb iJY Ma(iLean RouEIi A.' Oo. ■ ■'' .-•'•, 1881. ; V,-'; £^^ • *- . / -^ fv ,V. : ■•;/:?; ..-M' ■)■■■ *W. ' .-..^^v^l- ■ pv/y T""''" iM^': .■-r'-C.' : ■■^C.^"/- ■t . *•, '. 'p 'Cl-'r': ■v. ♦x:.j,'i*-, V .■i'- ■j! ;::f*^: tt. '/ DALHOUSIE UNIVERSITY LIBRARY ^X :^t' .r' -1) ^;5; -,r ," k},- ■■ --S /,«^-.-.. '■: ; , ■-'^> ''. j^i's ;■;*; /•.;■■!. • > jM W/ if . , ■*^.'"'^ - ^ y^^j'r :Hy-^ ' ■ T w V V' •". V'^' ' ¥ ^^> #^%'' ■•^■,'V'i ',\^i ^' ■'r^,- :/^^ •,t- %:/_ 1.!. ' ' ;••,•;/• 'S.-?:H\ ^/r SPECIAL COLLECTIONS -' ■; ' ,0 L 2 1U ■J »■• ' V .•■-' .<.- A. :■* ■■■■. ,1, ■^■if ■.■■■ ,[:■' '■i|-:i;:/^'r^-..'^' !•■''K■1i'il' '\2'X''^^^* CANADIiN PACIFIC RAILWAY. (■ i li \: ' ' H *,; ^ %■■■ HON. SIR CHARLES TOPPER'S SPEECH. Sir Charles Tupper. Mr. Chairman, it affords mo much pleasure to rise for the purpose of submitting a motion to this House in relation to the most important question that has ever engaged the attention of this Parlia- ment — a motion which submits for the approval of this House the means by which the great national work, t^he Canadian Pacific Railway, shall be completed and operated hereafter, in a way that has more than once obtained the approval of this House, and the sanction of the people of this country, and upon terms more favorable than any that have ever previously been offered to the House. I shall be obliged, Mr. Chairman, to ask the indulgence of the House while at some considerable length I place before it the grounds upon which I affirm that this resolution embodies the policy of the Parliament of Canada as expressed on more than one occasion, and that these resolutions present terms for the consideration of this Parliament, for the com- pletion of this work, more favorable than any j)reviously submitted ; and. Sir, I have the less hesitation in asking the indulgence of the Houise, because 1 ask it mainly for the purpose of repeating to the House statements made by gentlemen of much greater ability than myself, and occupying positions in this House and country second to no other. But for what took place here yesterday I would have felt warranted in expressing the opinion that the resolutions, grave and important as they are, would receive th( ananimous consent ot this Parliament. Mr. Blake. Hear, hear. Sir Charles Tupper. I would, I say, have been war- ranted in arriving at that conclusion — but for the very significant indications that were made from the other side of tlio IToTiso — boeauso tlioso rosolui ions only ask hon. gentlemen on ])olh sides of the liouse to aflirm a ]>roposition to which they have again aiKl ai-iiin, its public men, com- niittt^d themsehes, 1 need not remind I he House that when my right hon. friend, the hnider ai' the (Jovin-nment, occupied in 1871, the same position wliich he now occupies, the polivy of coiisiructing a great line of Canadian Pacific Itaihvay that would conmct the l\V(»gr.nU ocenns which form the eastern and western bound.-irios of the Dominion of Canada, received the approval of this House. Not only did the policy of accomplishintr that greal work receive the endorsation of a large majority in the TarlianKMit of the country, but in specific terms, the menus by which that work should !>•' accomplished were embodied i]i ihe form of a resolution and submitted for the eoiisideration of Parliament. It was moved by ihe late lamented [-r'lr George Car tier : "That tlie railway ie!'h subsidy in money, or other aid, nob unduly j)ressin;jr on the indiistiy and resources of the Dominion, as the Parliament ol Canatla sliall lieivai'ter determine."' Mr. Blake. down. That was the resolution first brought Sir CiTAT?[-ES TuppER. That was the first resolution, nnd it was amended to siate more strongly that the work should not involve an increase in the existing rate of taxa- tion. I was under the impn^ssion that the resolution I had in my hand was the original motion as carried. The hon. gentleman will agree with me that it embodies the mode upon which the road should be constructed. Now, Sir, although hon. gentlemen in this House, although the two great parties represented in this House may entertain differ- ences of opinion as to the construction of the liailway, and the means that may be adequate to its accomplishment, the House was unanimous in that ; because the hon. gentlemen then representing the Opposition supported a resolution, introduced as an amendment to ours by the present Chief Justice Dorion, declaring that the road should be constructed in no other way, adding to the resolution the words " and not othcnviso," tlie object of which was to make it impossible for any Groveniraent to secure the construction of the road in. any other mode than through the agency of a private company aided by a grant of lands and money. And while the resolution moved by Sir George Cartier, declaring that the work should be constructed in that way, reciuved the support of every gentleman on this side of the House, the still stronger alhrmation moved by Mr. Dorion, that the work should not be done in any other way, r(^ceived, I believe, the support of every gentleman on the other side of the House. Therefore, I think I may say that the policy of Parliament — not the policy of any one party — was distinctly approved in the resolutions placed upon the Journals in 187 1. Well, Sir, in ±872 it became necessary to state in distinct terms what aid the Grovernment proj^osed, under the authority of that resol;.i,tion, to offer for the consiruc- tion oi' ihe railway. The Jourmxls of 1872 will show that Parliament, by a deliberate vote, and by a very large maioritv placed at the service of the Govcn-nment $30,000,000 ill "money, and r)0,000,000 acres of hnd, for the construction of the main line; and an additional amount of 20,000 acres of land per mile lor the Pembina Branch of 85 miles, and oi 25,000 acres of land i^er mile lor the Nepi^-on Branch. Sir, I may remind the House that it was exp(^ctcd — as "possibl y may prove to be the case yet — that the line of the Canada Pacific Railway from Nipissnig westward would run to th(^ north of Lake Nepigon, and provision was there- fore made for a branch, by a vote of twenty-five thousand acres of land per mile, for 120 miles, to secure connection between Lake Superior and the main line. Now, Sir, these terms became the sul^ject of very consideral)le discussion in this House and out of it. And the G-overnment having been sustained by a majority, placing at their disposal that aniount of money and that amount of land to secure the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway, and the term of Parliament having expired, Parliament was dissolved and the country appealed to, and after that question v>^as placed before it, a very sufficient working majority was returned to support the Grovernment and confirm the policy which the House had adopted, both as to the mode in which the work was to be constructed and as to the public money and public lands which the Government were authorized to use for the pur- pose of securing the construction of this work. AVell, Sir, n nndor th(» authority ol' this H(>u.s(\ in 1872, ar.tl under the authority of the people- of this country, conlirniing what the House had done, the GoYornnient entered into a contract with a number of g-enthnnen, who su])sequently selected Sir Plugh Allan as the President of the Company, for the purpose of construciing- the Canadian Pacilic llailway on the terms that I have now mentioned to the House, and that gentleman, wilh some of his associates — and I need not at this period remind the House that that Company eml)raced a number of the most able, leadini;' and inlluential men in the country, linancially and commercially — proceeded to England, at that time, at all events, the great money market of the world, I might almost say that it was then the only money market in the world, and exhausted every means in their power to obtain the support of financial men in such a way as to enable them to carry that contract to completion. If my recollection does not fail me, the hon. leader of the late Government, on more than one occasion, expressed the hope that it would be successful. He always expressed his strong" conviction that the means were altogether inadequate to secure the object in view, but I think that, on more than one occasion, he expressed the patriotic hope that these gentlemen would succeed in obtaining the capital required upon these terms. ]>ut, Sir, they did not succeed, as every person knows. After having exhausted every effort in their vower, they were obliged to return and surrender the char- ^er under which they received authority to endeavor to obtain money for the construction of this great work. Well, Sir, a very unpleasant result followed. The then Government of this country met with a like defeat ; and the means placed at their disposal for the construction of the great work which these gentlemen had in hand having proved inadequate. The Government also succumbed to the pressure from hon. gentlemen opposite. It is not a pleasant topic, and I ^will not dwell any longer upon it than is absolutely necessary to introduce the Administration which followed ns, ably led by the hon. member for Lambton. No\n% Sir, I have said, on more than one occasion, that in my judgment, inasmuch as the only authority which Parliament had given for the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway required that it should be done by a private company, aided by a grant of land and money, and inasmuch as the resolution embodying that arrt ■4 ■wav tlie ■•ti con 4 Th me '1 wl atatomcnit, as the hon. leader of the Opposition has correctly reminded me, also embodied the statement that it should not increase the existing rate of taxation, and inasmuch as the Finance Minister of the Government at once announced to Parliament the fact that there was a great impi^nding deficiency between the revenue and expenditure, it therefore became apparent that no progress could be made except in contravention of both these propositions. I have said before, and I repeat now, that in my judgment the hon leader of vhe then Government would have been warranted in stating that he was obliged to leave the question of the Canadian Pacific Railway in abeyance. The present hon. leader of the Opposition differed with me on that point, as occasion- ally we are compelled to differ on matters which are submitted for the consideration of this House, and 1 am free to confess that, although I do not hold so strongly as the present leader of the Opposition opinions as to the duty which devolved upon the hon. member for Lamb ton, as leader of the Government in 1874, the opinions he formed, the policy he adopted, and the statements he made in and out of this House, as to his position regarding the construc- tion of the Canadian Pacific llailway, were eminently patrio- tic, and greatly to the credit of that hon. gentleman. But, Sir, he did commit himself in the most formal and authentic manner to the construction ; notwithstanding the difficulties which had occurred, notwithstanding the apparently insuperable difficulties which presented themselves, the hon. gentleman went to his constituents — I will not say he went to his constituents — he appealed to all Canada, he appealed to the people of this country in the most formal manner in which it is possible for a First Minister to state his policy, and that was by a manifesto over his own signature. The House will, perhaps, allow me to draw attention to some very important statements contained in this manifesto. The hon. gentleman said : " We must meet the difficulty imposed on Canada by the reckless arrangements of the late Government with reference to the Pacific Rail- way, under which they pledged the land and resources of this country to the commencement of that gigantic work in July, 1873, and to its completion by July, 1881." The hon. gentleman will see that the term reckless arrange- ments is limited by the hon. gentleman to the short time which we had allowed ourselves for. the construction of the :^ 6 work, :ni(l not to the work itsolf. lurflu'V said : The hon. gontleman •'Tlial contract lias already \ieon brokoii ; ovfr a uiillion of (lollar.s iia^' now boon sitcnt in siiivevs, and no j)artlcular lino has yot boon locatod. Tl.e liaipilu is, as wo always s-aifl, incaimMo ol' literal fiiUihnctit. We niii.it niako aiian/^onionts with l>iiti>h Columbia I'or siioli a iclaxation of the toriiKs as will givo time lor tho ooniiilotion of tlio Hiirvoys, and siibse- (incnt i(r(>;-o('iiti means ol' oommunicatioii across tho eontinont, and it would bo their policy to unite enormous stretches ct ma^'iiificont water comminiications with linos oC railway to tho L'oeky J\lountains, thus avoiding, brr the present, tho construction of lyA'i) miles of lailway, costing' IVom sixty to eighty jnillions of tloUars, and rendeiing the iesource.-> of the country available for the i)rosi:i,ution of those links, and they shotdd endeavor to make those great works auxiliary lo th<^ jironiotion of inunigrntion on an extensive scale, and to the settlement and dovelopmon': of tlioso rich and fertile territories on which tjur hupey for the future of Canada are so largely lixed." Nov\', Sir, I am sure that tlie House will exfuse me for placing- ])(>rore thom, in the strong and emphatic and eloquent term.s oi' the leader of that Government, the opinion he ent»'rlain(>d as to what was incumbent upon the Adminis- tration, and what was likely to be atttiined by pursuing that course. Then, Sir, the hon. gentleman, in a speech at Sarnia, followed up the policy here foreshadowed still more emphatically, still more strongly, than he had done in his manil-'sto. He said : " /ou are aware that during the discussions on the Eill, 1 obiecti'd to the pi'ovision- as to tho building of the railway within ton years. Xearly three years of that time liad been then exhausted, and lie ])oing l)oiuid liy a contract lo linish it within seven years and three months. It was essential for tho settlomeut for the purpose of opening up the districts where we have great riches undeveloped." I presume that he w^as referring to the undoubted mineral districts of British Columbia. '' Without that communication, great develojiment cannot talce i)]ace. It wid be the duty of the Adnvinistration, in the first place, to secure the opportunity for communication from Lake Superior to the Ifooky Moun- tains, and, at tlio same time," and this speaks for itself "and tuemje to the Pacific Ocean and tho Western slope." lomaii " If wo wish to miilco tlioso rej^^ioiiH aooes.sible, thit is liritisli Columbia aiiil tlio N()i'tli-\\'o.->t Tcriitory, wo luunt eiluct tliid comiminiciitiou." I do not think it requires any arj^ument to show that liie hon. jjenth'inan proposed to construct a road in IJritish Columbia and one on this side of the prairie, and that then* would he no dilUcully in the construction of the communi- cating sictions. He says : " It will be iKVPssarv to coniploto out- fivoiii nutional hiiihway atn'oss the contiiR'iu. ami 1 tliiiik it will ho tho duty, as it will ho tiio dcsiro, of the (iov(iriiiiii'iit to (levulop any plan by wliioli tho-io results can i^e at-oom- plish.Mb" Now, Sir, there are other means of obtaining the policy of an Adminis(r;iti('U besides the expressions of the hniding* members of that Administration, and one is tho authimtic declaration of the organ of the Administration. Ifniy hon. friend, the leadt'r of the Opposition, will .', )t permit me to constru" the langnage of the then leader of the (J-overnment, perhaps he will not object if [ show hn'e what constru ■tion the organ of that Grovernment i>laced \ipon the words of their lead r I read, in an editorial in the Toronto Globe news- paper, that it had b.'en assorted : " That Mr. ]\r;i<'l-.iii/!f's Cabinet have ahandniK* I tlio (Canadian Paoilic Hailwav. Nothinir cm be I'ui'tiK'i' t'loni tlie truth. Mr. ^[aokeiuie's speech at .Sariiia intimated 'iistiinitly what was the course which lie pi'ijio.sed to pursue, iiui suliseqiient stiiteinents have all explained and developed tlie ideas then su.L'irested. 'i'liere is no question as to Avhethor the Paeilie Rail- way is t) lie built or not. That qiiestiou has been settle I irrevocably in the aifi; illative, and there is no statesman in Canada who would comiuit himself to any nepitive on su-'h a jjoint. On this all are ,i<5reed. Canvass the Doiniiiion over and two thin;:s will be proved a^ settle I points. One is that the railway must be l)uilt at as early a period as j»os.sibl(>, and that everything that ciin reasi)nably help that railroad to a coiupletion must be done and given. These two points are empliatieally endorsed iractioabie within the time that was i:)roposed, and impracticable also with the means proposed to be used to accomplish it." I wish to invite the attention of the House to the formal declaration made on the floor of Parliament by the late Prime Minister, that the means that Parliament had placed at the disposal of the Government of their predecessors, ^30,000,100 in money and 64,000,000 acres of land, were utterly inadequate to secure the construction of the work. Then the hon. gentleman continues : " I have not changed that opinion, but being placed here in the Govern- ment, I am bound to endeavor, to the utmost of my ability, to devise such means as may seem within our reach to accomplish, in spirit, if not in the letter, the obligations imposed upon us by the treaty of union, for it was a treaty of union with British Columbia." I am sure that I'ritish Columbia will be very glad to be again reminded that the leader of the Opposition maintained that this was an absolute treaty of union w4th British Columbia. Then he continues : " We had to undertake to vindicate the good faith of the country and r bflore the 31st of December, IS'JO, the railwny i^li:ill be cnni- pletfd and opened for trafhc from the Pacific sea])nard to a ].oi:it sit the western end of Lake Superior, at which it will fall into cotiiicction with existing lines of raihva}', then by a portion of the United Stutes, and also with the navigation on Canadian waters." These terms included, it is true, a con,;idvral)le I'xtension of the time within which the road was orgiually to have been completed, but they fixed a definite and distinci liniit within which a large portion of the Pacific Railway should l)e con- structed and put in operation. The hon. gentlenu-n himself, in referring to these terms, used this language : " We shall always endeavor to i^roceed with the 'vork as fast a-! the cir- cumstances of the country — circumstances yet to be develojicd — wi'd enoMe us to do, so as to obtain, as soon as possible, cnuijilete i-ailway roMnnunica- tion with the Pacific Province. How soon that time may cmu' I cannot predict, but I have no reason to doubt that we shall be able to i;eep our obligation to British Columbia, as now uuiended, without seriously interfer- ing with the march of prosperity.'' !/ 12 That is, that by 1890 the hon. gentleman hoped to complete it, " without seriously interfering with the marrh of pros- perity." I am glad, notwithstanding the difficulties which the hon. gentleman encountered, to be able to submit to his consideration the means by which we are to do that to which he pledged himself, and pledged the honor and faith of his Government and his party so far as the leader of a great party can pledge that party to the accomplishment of a great national undertaking. But, Sir, I am glad to be able to give, not only the authority of the leader of the the late Grovern- ment, but that of the hon. and learned gentleman who is leader of Her Majesty's Constitutional Opposition at the present moment. That hon. gentleman is reported in Hansard of March 5th, 1875, to have used these words : "The general policy of the country up an the subject of the Pacific Railway was spread before this country anterior to the late general election; and practically and fairly stated." I have read to the House the v^ords which the Premier of that day, as the hon. gentleman said, " prac'tically and fairly" stated his policy, and I quite agree that it was so stated. The hon. member for South Durham continued : "In some of the minor details of that policy the hon. member for Cum berland has indicated more or less of change, but the broad features of that policy were, as I have said, plainly stated to this country anterior to the late jreneral elections ; the verdict of country was taken upon it and the result was a decided acceptance of it. It is not reversible by us. We have no mandate to reverse it. Upon the most enlargeil con,«ideration of the rights of members of Parliament, I cannot conceive that we could have the right at all to listen to the appeal of the hon. member for (Cumberland, and to enter into a consideration whether that policy upon which the country's opinion was asked anil taken, and which opinion we were sent here to enforce, should be altogether reversed. I do consider it would be unwise for an instant to consider any such proposition. I do not believe that any other policy in its general effects than that which was so proposed and so accepted is at all feasible." Now, Sir, I ventured to say. at the outset of my remarks, that we had the means of showing to the House, not only that Parliament, on botJi these great occasions, had distinctly declared the policy of constructing the Canadian Pacific Rail- way, but that the people, as stated by the present leader of the Opposition, had given an affirmativ to that proposition, and had, as that hon gentleman averred, put it without the power of this Parliament to change that policy. 1 must remind the House that the circumstances of the country were VBlti 10 very different in 1875 from the circumstances of the country at the time at which the previous Government undertook the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway ; but not- withstanding that changed condition of circumstances, not- withstanding that the hon. gentleman's Finance Minister was compelled to come to Parliameutyear after year and ask permission to increase largely the taxation of the country in order to meet the ordinary expenditure ; notwithstanding all this, the hon. gentleman held that the honor and good faith of the country were pledged to the construction of this great work, and he came to this House and asked the authority of Parliament for the prosecution of his i^cheme. In 1876, after longer experience, after having found that the financial difficulties of the country had certainly not decreased, the hon. gentleman was still undismayed, for, in 1876, from the high and authoritative position of a Prime Minister submit- ting the policy of his Government to the country, after full and deliberate consideration, he enunciated the following A'iews : " We have felt, from the first, that while it was utterlj'' impossible to implement to the letter the very agreements entered into by our l>redecessors, the good faith of the country demanded that the Administration should do everything that was reasonable in their power to carry out the pledges made to British Columbia, if not the entire obligation, at least such parts of it as seemed to be within their power, and most conducive to the welfare of the whole Dominion, as well as to satisfy all reasonable men in the Province of British Columbia, which Province had iancied itself entitled to comjjlain of apparent want of good faith in carrying out these obligations. In endeavouring to accomplish this result we have had serious difficulties to contend with, to which I shall presently allude. * » ♦ The Act of 1874 prescribes that the Government may build the road on contract in the ordinary way, or it may be built on the terms set forth in Section 8, which provides that the Governmtnt may pay §10,000 in money and grant 20,000 acres of land per mile, with four per cent, for 25 years upon any additional amount in the tenders, to a company to construct portions of the line. The intention of tne Government was, as soon as the surveys were in a sufficiently advanced state, to invite tendeis for the construction of such portions of the work '! coming yoar in British (.'olmnhia, tliese rails would bo required. It may bo s:u(l to be imjiossiblo to commence the construction oi' the road in Britisli Columbia without luiviui^ rails on the spot,"' And in that I concur with the hon. gentleman. Mr. Mackenzie. The concurrence comes very late. Sir CiTAKLES TUPPEK. The hon. gentleman will not, I think, iind any ground for making that statement. T think he will, perhaps, allow me to interject that they would have been equally useful if they had not lain quite so long in British Columbia. The hon. gentleman further said : " There are five thousand tons in British Columbia, and if we erred in sending Ihem there, we Iiave simply erred in our earnest desire to show the people of British Columbia that wo are desirous of ki'opjng faith witli them, tliat our speeches were not mere emptj^ promises, ami that we were lesolved to place ourselves in a position tliey could not misunderstand." Well, Sir, in 18VV, after another year's experience, the hon. gentleman again stated the policy, that still was the policy of his Administration, in reference to this work. He said : "The late Administration, in entering into the Mgreement for bringing British Columbia into the Confederation, had an expressed obligation as to the building of the I'ailway across the continent from lake ^.ipissingon the east to the Paeitie (.'cean on the west, within a sioocified num!)er of years. Wheji the present Administration acceded to power, they felt that this, like all treaty obligations, was one ■which imposed upon thorn cer- tain duties of administration and government whicli they had no right to neglect, and that they were bound to carry the scheme practicr.lly into effect to the oxttnit that I have indicated. The whole effort of the Admin- istration, from that day to this, has been directed to the accom{)lishment of this subject in the way that would seem to be most practie d and most available, considering the ditliculties to be encountered and the cost to be Incurred. ♦ • * The Kailway Act of 1874 provides that 20,000 acres of land should be given a.bsolutely as part consideration for the contract, and §10,000 per mile of actual cash — the land to be subject to certain regulations as to two thinis of it which are provided for in the Act — and that tenderers should be invited to state the additional sum, if any, upon which a garantee of 4 per cent, should be given by the Dominion for 25 years afterwards. ♦ ♦ ♦ j mentioned last year, in introducing this item to the Committee of Supply, that we liad then advertised, or proposed to adv<>rtise — I forgot which in English and Canadian papers, that we hoped, about January, 1877, to be able to advertise for tenders 15 Lave of that id, or pers, iders ii I ami to eu{>ply coiu}»lete profiles of the liiir>. • • • j think, fjuite early iu .Inly, or earlier. I think it must have been in Jutio. At all events, we desired to send that advertisement to the public in order that it might invite intending contractors to visit the country for them- selves. I vras personally satisfied that an examination of the piairio coL.ntries, if not the country east of the prairies to Lake Superior, would show to intending contractors, in the first place, that there was a large quantity of good land, and, in the second place, that the physical diiti- culties to be overcome were not so serious as people might reasonably anticipali' to exist in the centre of the Continent. I do not think the advertiseiu'-uL i)roduced very much of that particular I'esult. Some parties, I believe, have visited tlie country, the agents of some English companies have visited Ottawa; sotne have visited the agency of the (iovernment in London, witli a view to examine the plans and i)roHles, and the Jiaihvay Act under v.-hich the contracts will be let; but the season was an unfavorable one in consequence of thedilHculties attending railway enterprise all through the world, and can, perhaps, be fairly considered as one not very fortunate for issuing or projiosing the prospectus of a huge onterjjrise like tliis, in a comparatively unknown couutiy, or, I might say, a vdiolly unknown country. The GovernunMit wore not able, as 1 stated, to have the profiles all ready in .January. They were, however, despatched in sections as soon as they could be completed, to the [Railway Office in London. 'I'hey have l)een on exhiliition in the Railway ( )fjice here formany months, and the whole of tiie ]>rotiles IVoni Lake iSui)erior to the Western Ocean is, 1 presum?, either com[)loted or very near it, at tlie present mo- ment : tint is, taking the two i-outes ah'eady completed through British Columbia. The Government jiroposed, as soon as tliese are entirely com- pleted, to have advertisements issued calUng for offers, giving ample time, so that ten. He said : '' Wo roco:rnlze the oMigations rcstiiiLr u].on us as Canadians, and, wliile I a.-5sei't, in tlie uio.-;t positive niannoi-, that nothing could have been done by any Administration during our ti-rm ot'oliioe that we did not do, or try to do, in order to accompli.'^h, or realize those expectations which were generated by the (lovernment of hon. gentlemen o2)posite, in their admis- sion of British Columbia into the Confederacy, 1 say, at the same time, that we endeavored, not merely to keep the national obligations, but we ventured to a great extent, our own political existence as administrators ; we I'isked our political position for the sake of carrying out to completion, in the best way possible, the course wliich hon. gentlemen opposite had promised should be taken." The hon. gentleman also declared after his live years' term of office had ended, that nothing that had been in the power of the Ministry, of which he was the head, to do, had been left undone to carry to successful completion the policy to which his predecessors had committed the House and the country. He said : " (.)ur proposals was this : We endeavoured, in tlie first place, to obtain some mo liiication of the terms. We despatched an agent to Baitish Col- !i! 18 uinl)ia, and liOnl Carnarvon iiltimately oflfered his good services, in order to arrive at some understanding witli that Province ; and we reached the understanding tliat we would endeavour to builtl a railway from Laico Superior to tlie I'nciilc Ocean by ISUO; tliat we should exjjend a certain amount per annum in British Columbia, after the surveys were completed and line adopted. TIh' line never was surveyed sufficiently to enable us to reach that conclusion till last year, and, as soon as we had information suinc:ic3nt to guide us, wc adopted the Burrard Inlet route, and immedi- ately advertised for tendois for the construction of that line. The hon. the Minister of Pul)lic Works has spoken of our departure from the former terms of the construction of this road. Now, what was this departure? We hail i)recisely the same provision of land, and equivalent as to money; only, instead of $30,()U(),(H)0, we named ?;]0,()00 a mile, which would have amounted to $)2(),(XX),(Mi{), and two-thirds of the land was to be controlled by the (Jovernment in respect of sales and management. We also then provided that, in asking tor tenders, we should invite tenders to say upon what additional amount they would require a guarantee of four per cent, for 25 years." The hon. gontleman also .proceeded to say : " While we let out contiacts between Thunder Bay and Selkirk, with a view to get a road opened into that country, it was with the determination to adopt this metliod, and 1 explained this several times during my administration. We intended, when we had obtained a full completion of the surveys, and finally adopted the route to the ocean, through British Columbia, to endcavoiu- to place the entire work Irom Lake Sui)erior west- ward under contract — the contractors assuming the expenditure already incuired, and allowing tiiomselves to be chai'^zed with it as part of the $l(),n(H) a mile to be paid t) th(Mn on the contracts for the entire line. The hon. gentlemen oj'posite, and the whole country, are aware that we .so! c ted tenders in England for some months upon this ground, before hon. gentlemen (){)posite came into oflice ; also that Mr. .Sandford Fleming, the Chief Engineer, was instructed, while ^n London, to place himself in com munication with contractors and iinancial men, and also to obtain the assistance of Sir. John Kose, who, in many things, had been the active, energetic and patriotic agent of the Dominion, with a view to the carrying out of this scheme." I may mention incidentally, that, while I entirely approve of all these eftbrt.s, the hon. gentleman was, I think, never called upon to lay upon the Table of the House any corres- pondence that took place between his Government and these capitalists and contractors, and which dia not result in their obtaining a contract. Mr. Blake. Did he ever refuse ? Sir Charles Tupper, H(J never was asked anything so iitterly at variance with the first principles of Govern- ment, as to bring down correspondence that could be attended with no possible benefit to the Government, but be extremely embarrassing to the Government in its future operations. *l 19 es, in order reached tlie from Lake id a certain 3 completed ;o enable us information uid immodi- '. Tho hon. nthe former departure ? s to monej' ; would have controlled ^e also then to say upon )ur per cent. kirk, with a ? termination during my ompletion of on;.'h British uperiorwest- ture already s part of the ire line. The e that we belore hon, euiiug, tho ;elf in com obtain the the active, the carrying y approve nk, never ,ny corres- otient and not result anything f Grovern- could be ait, but be its future Mr. Bl.vke. That is the true reason. Sir Charles Tupper. I do not hesitate to say that a more unfortunate precedent, in my judgment, could not bo set than for a Government to enter into nej^otiations with capitalists to ascertain how far they would be propart'd to take up a great work and carry it to completion, and thiMi bring down thi^ correspondence which could only redact on the character and standing of the gentlemen inter.'st(»d, and render gentlemen in future, in similaj* cases, cautious how far they would discuss negotiations with a (lovern- ment which would later give publicity to those negotia- tions. The hon, gentleman further said : "But I am informorl that, notwithstanding all our efforts, wh signally failed in ohtaining one single offer (there was one imperfect oiFur male) for the construction of the railroad on those terms, which were the grant of 20,000 acres and $10,000 cash, per mile, with a guarantee of 4 per cent, upon such balance as might bo represented as necessary. No terms could be more explicit; it would bo difficult to mention terms more favorable, and yet tho hon. gentleman seems to expect, by iiis speech, tliat tlie colon- ization scheme with the 1 00,000,000 acres instead of the .^(VJOOjOO:) acres and ^30,000,000 current money, is somehow or otlier to succeed in getting this road V)uilt. His own remarks showed to-day that it was utterly useless at present for him to expect British railway contractors, or great linaiicial firms to engage in any railroad enterprise on this continent. Much of this is due to the want of coniidence wliich he tells us is experienced in finan- cial circles in Britain, and u great deal is due to the unwise legislation in Canada and the Provinces, with respei-t to railway lines, and lo the fact that foreign cajutalists have obtained little or no return for the money they have laid out in this country. I have made up my mind long ago that it will be exceedingly difficult for a i)Opulation of 4,000,000 so to conduct financial tr;uisactions connected with tlie buiMing of that railroail of 2,600 miles, acrohs an unknown and almost unirodden continent, in many places extremely difiicult. 1 frankly say now, after my experience in endeavoring to accomplish something in that direction, that I fear we shall be incapable of accomplishing anything in that direction at p. ■ jnt." I need not say to the House that in what he sidd and antici- pated, the hon. gentleman, I suppose, was sincere. I suppose w^hen he made this utterance it was made in all frankness. The House will readily understand the gratilication I expected to see spread over the hon. gentleman's counten- ance on learning that all that he lamented he had been unable to accomplish in his official position he occupied in the House, his successors were in a position to present for the consideration of Parliament, I frankly concede, and in doing so I only do justice to the sin(*ere, able and energetic efforts of the hon, gentleman, tha;, he did all that lay in his power during his term of administration to put this work ^ w 20 upon Ih ^ loundiitioii on vvliicli rarliiinicnt, on two si'parato occiisioiis, mid llii^ pi'<)i)li' liad alliniuMl it .should b*^ plaiu-d, iianudy, tluit tho work should bedoiu>hya pvivatf couii)any, aided hy j^^iauts of hind and money. IJnt, :Sir, the lion. gvnlK'uian istated, on ano'iher occasion, that: '• It won 11 liavc hfcn vory ousy to ooniin-'iici' to i.'radt' tlio roa'I, iimi so keep witluM the tiTius of tlu' I'jiioii Acl ; hut 1 ssconieil lo ^jractici! uiiy (lert']i!niii in till' lUiitttT." I a.ssui>ie, ihroug-hout, that the lion, g'cntleman was acting with eiilive sincerity, that in all those statements made to the House as to his great desire to advance this great national work, he was giving candid utterance to his sincere opinion — to the opinion that, whether sitting on one side ol" the Jlou.se or the other, he would bo prepared to give an equally zealous and hearty support to the policy. But in 187S there was a general election, the result being that my right hon. Iriend besidt^ me was again charged with the important duty oi' administering the public atl'airs of this country, and again brought lace to lace with this great national work, this gigantic undertaking, that for five years had, iiotwitlistanding the elibrts ol" our predecessors, made no very great progress. We found ourselves, then, m this poiiition, of being called upon to deal with the question of the great Canadian Pacilic liailway, upon which a large amount of public money had been expended, and in a way that w^)uld prove utterly useless to the country unless iiu-asures were taken promptly to carrj", at all events, the work under construction to completion, and to supplement it as to make it ell'ective for the promotion of the objects for whicli it was designed. We, therefore, were not in a po.-iition to ellect any change of policy as hon. gentlemen opposite will see. But ^ve came to rarliament to re-aflirm the policy with which we had started at the inception of that great work, the Canadian I'acific Railway, involving the policy of utilizing the lands of the great North- West for the purpose of obtaining the construction of that vast work There was every reason in the world why we should adopt that policy in the lirst instance, and to return to it afterwards. Every person knows that the development of this great territory was concerned in this policy ; that day by day it was becoming better known and better under- stood by people whose interest would be promoted by the carrying out of the designs involved in this gigantic under- 21 S(»p;irate ' pl;n;('d, ■oinpaiiy, lIu! liuii. w\, and HO •aclkio any IS lie ting madt; <^ivo to lis groat is sincere le side of in But ill that my with the rs of this bis great five years ^rs, made 1, m this lestion of a large in a way unhiss ents, the )plement )ji^ets for lot in a ntleraen re-aflirm eption of ivolving rth-West that vast e should urn to it pment of that day under- d by the c under- taking ; that, irn^spoi^tive altog«»ther of the vital political question of the conni'cting Ihitish Colunihia with tlie ri'st of the Doniinion, the progress and prosperity of Canada were to be promoted to an extent otherwise unattainable, by the construction of the Canadian I'aeilic Uailvvay. We also felt that iiiasinueh as those lands were, as th«^ leader of the (lovernnicnt truly stated, desert lands, notwithstand- ing their f.'rtility and enormous extent, and imictii-ally as useless as if in a ioreign country, so far as Canada was concerned, unless they were developed, and, ny. it was stated, thi'ir development could only be accomplished" by completing this great national work, W(^ should « ome back to the House with our original policy. We were compelled to take it up as we found it, and go on with it as a Government work to make the work, upon which so mueli had already bi'en expended, of use to the country. But W(> asked tin* House to phu-e at our disposal 100, 1100,01)0 of acres for the ])urpose of covering the ex[M'nditure in coimection with the Canadian Pacilic liailway We felt that, l)y that means, we should again place ourselves in. a position to save the older and outlying rrovimes, ultiuiately, from additional taxation. Wi* desirrd, by utilizing the lands of the North-West, to o})taiii the. means of recouj>ing to the Treasury every doUjr exi)ended, or likely to be expended, on this work. Hon. gentlemen also know that, in the development of that policy, we pro- posed to obtain the co-operation of the Imperial Govern- ment. The hon. leader of the Opposition occasionally in- dulges in a quiet sneer at the result of the etibrts ot this Government to interest the Imptnial Government in this enterprise. Now, it is very well known that, armed by this 1 louse wiih the ]iow^er of utilizing 100,000,000 acres in the JSorth-West, if we could so secure the constriu;tion of the Canadian Paciiic Ivailway, my riglit hon. friend the I'irst Minister, the Minister of lunance and myself wen' to England in IHTO. I do not intend to lay claim to any g.oat results from our mission as regards the railway, but I think I may claim credit for a fair measure of success that attended our ellbrts, if not our joint ellbrts, in regard to the business of our respective departments. AVe found the press of England indillerent, if not hostile, to Canada ; where it was not hostile il was indillerent, in contrad tinctioii to its spirit in dealing with \:r 22 Australia and the other colonies. Indeed, in many cases, Canada was treated wii^ marked hostility. Very suddenly, however, a very striking, a very marked change, took place. "When? When Earl l5eaconsfield, the Prime Minister of that day, stated openly, or in public, the enormous value of the Great North-\Ve.^t of Canada I do not mean to say he was entirely accurate in all his stat<'ments; but at all events he was quite correct in Ihe remark that the most lively imagination could hardly over-estimate the enormous value pi' the Great No rth-W est and the inviting character of the field it presented to the agriculturists in evry part of the world desiring to emigrate. From that da/ to this every person knows the marked and instantaneou-i nature oi" the change that took place in Engli.'sh public opinion, especially in the views of every important paper in the British Islands, and ill many in this country as well as in the United tStates, and also in the amount of attention and interest concentrated on the North-West. Tht^ people of this country owe to my right hon. friend this great l)ene{icial change brought about through his personal communication with the Prime Minister of England, and the use made of it in dealing with the i>(!op]e ol Great Britain. Hon. gentlemen know we Were then obliged to (.'onless we were not able to bring to completion any great scheme for the construction of the Canadian Pacific luiilway. I venture to i^ay we thought we had made some imi)reysi()n on the Imperial Government while in England. I think that my hon. iVitMid the leader of the Opposition, who has sne;'rod at our statement that we had obtained the sympathy and enlisted tlu^ interest of the Imperial Government in relntion to the Canadian Pacific liailway, will find a strong corroboration of our assertion in intelligence received to-day with regard to the action oi that Government, it can now be believed that our ellbrts with the Imperial Governinent will, at no distant day, bear good fruit. The Colonial 0!iice have done what they never did before' — published, authoritatively, a document recommend- ing Canada as a fi<'ld I'or emigration. I do not know whether the hon. gentleman (Mr. B!al;") has seen the news to-day or not; but I am quite sure that, as a patriotic Canadian, he Avill b' glad to learn that the London Tiuies announces the Imperial Governnnnit ha.s promised to bring down a scheme of emigration, assisted l)y the Canadian Government. So the hon. gentleman may I'eel he is not quite iii a position to ..^ 28 ly cases, uddenly, ok place, nister of value of say he 11 events st lively us value ?r of the •t of the lis every e of the specially L Islands, d States, 3entrated e to my ht about 3 I'vime ing' with now we bring to n of the )U'i'ht we eminent Le leader that we t of the Paciiic 3rti()n in 11 ot that rts with }ar g'ood ever did mniond- w^helher o-(lay or dian, he iices the I scheme nt. So sitiou to repeat, w^hat I am rather afraid was to him a gratifying intimation, that the present Canadian. Government had entirely failed in their negotiation's. Mr. Blake. Allow me to remind my hon. friend that the present Imperial Grovernment is Mr, Grladstone's, and the Government with which he and his colleagues had interviews ■was the Bcaconefield Government. Sir Charles Tupper. My hon. friend w411 permit me to point out to him that he is strengthening my argument. He will permit me to inform him that .from this very place last Session, I stated that, instead of this Governmi^ut feeling- anxious in consequence of the change of Government in England, we were advised, and were of the belief, that the sentiments of the members of the new Ministry were of the most liberal character in relation to Canada. My hon. friend will also permit me to inform him that since the advent of the Liberal Government to power, the rii>"ht hon., the Premier, my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture, and myself have been in personal communication with a number of members of the present Administration, and have inipressi^d ui)on their minds the importance to the empire of the Governiiient of Great Brit;: in giving due attention to the resources of the great Canadian North- West as a Held for emigration, and as a means of meetijig the dilTiculties of a serious character which have ])resented themselv(\> in rela- tion to the government of the Biitish Isles. So that I do not think my hon. friend has made a grnt, we took up the work as we found it. A\ e ]:>]aced under contract the 127 miles of road which the leader of the late Government had announced — by adveriis- .Ol 26 Govern- ing at a ere very ied, that country, t, might hero and Janada — character nses. It onomical s accrued t of G reat complete the con- md that enlirel)'- ir before. I do not me boat 1 he rows I of this, Id gives moment disposal ted that complete In 1880 lie same in good ipon us we had \'ork by found it. lich the idvertis- ing for tenders — as his intension to build ; which had assured the people of British Columbia he intended to build, and which, under the terms with Lord Cariuivon, he was bound to place under contract. When he met Parliament with the statement that we were going on with this work, I think we scarcely met with the amount of aid and co-operation from the gentlemen opposite to which we wore entitled. I do not wish to say anything that would seem harsh to any gentleman on the other side of the House, but I really do not think the attitude which the Opposition assumed towards this Govern- ment, Avhen we were only carrying out the pledges which they th(»mselves had given over their signatures as Ministers, by their votes in Parliament, and by their declara- tions of policy in this House, in the country, and to the Imperial G(jvernraent, was justifiable. As we were only carrying out what they proposed, we had a riu'ht to cKj^ect to bo mot in a manner dillerent to that in which we were mt^t by them ; but the attitude hon. gentlemen assumed only afforded an opportunity of showing that whatever change of sentiment may have taken place in the mind of the leader of the Opposition, no such change had taken ■t:)lace in the mind of Parliament in relation to the subject. The leader of the Opposition moved — and in making this motion ho submitted a resolution directly in antagonism to the policy of the Government which he supported and to his own recorded utterances on the floor of this House — that we should break faith with Ih'itish Columbia and Vv^ith Lord Carnarvon, and that we should give, I was going to say the lie, to Lord Dufferin, who stated on his honor as a man that every particle of the terms of agreement syith l5:'itish Columbia woro in a state of literal fiillilmeiit. The r-'siilt of the moving of this resolutioiL was to place on the records of ParlianKnit a vote of 18 f to 40 that good faith should be kept, and that we were bound not only to k(^ep <:■ >o,l faith with British Columbia, but that we owed it tc (V.nada to take up this work and pt'Oseciu:e it in such a wo.y as we believed was absolutely noces>ary in order to bring it within such limits as Avould enable us to revert to th(^ original policy of building the road ])y means of a company •vi-led by land and money. And. had we not placed that section under contract in British Columbia, had we not viLtovonsly prosecuted the 185 miles wanted to complete the line 26 betwetni Lake Superior and Ked River, we would not have been able to stand here to-day laying before the House the best proposal for the construction of the road that has ever been ma to Parliament. Well, Sir, I will give, in conclu- sion, tht utterances of the hon. the leader of the late Government at the last Session of Parliament. He said : " I sliull not for a moniont deny that we intended to carry out the terms of the arrangement with Lord Carnarvon, and nothing but the want of means woiihl liave i)revented us I'rom aci^ompUshing that object, an object >vhich coiild not but be desirable to any one who wished to see our trade extended." Not merely that the obligation under the Carnarvon terms, but that the interests of the country rendered it desirable that the policy should be carried out. "No one wlio looked to the desirable extension of our business across tlic coiiiiiicnt I'ouM avoid seeing that if such an extension could possibly be obtained without too great sacrilice it would in itself be desirable." Sir John A. Macdoxald. Who said that ? Sir ("11 vRLE.s TurPER. The leader of the late Government at the last Session of Parliament. The hon. gentleman further said : " Our uuilert.'il the oth' ii lioy was this: We believed that tlu racific Railway was . ■■! as a great national liighway from one end of the Donunif)n to 1-, and tiiat whatever termination we make of it, near Lake ^«'i|,>i.ssiiig, it must be placed in connection with some otlier lines, and we pro'/idvd ;V)r jiaying a subt^idj' to some connecting lines oast ofCJoorgian Buy. < ; • objiu't was to have, as sjjeedily as possible, a railway from the waters ni' \\io (ieorgian Bay, to have a connection with the (Quebec lines, thm'igii ili" Canada Central, as a connecting medium." *» » * • « • » » * "f Mn- iKiiu wo;i!d form a tlirough lino to the Ottawa Valley, notably and uotorin;!v!y the shortest line to the east from our western territories. Hon. gentli'it.cn opjjosite have given u}) all the advantages that the Province of Qiujljci :::i(l the Trovinces ea-1 c-)!' that would iiave derived from our plan, and til' ;':■ •.-;;( lent of the Council is not apparently at all ilisposed to avoid chet^riiir Mni^elf Sjecause lie adopted this I'oui'se ; he delilierately injured his own i' -oviuee, and now laughs at the injury he has done." The IiOii. L;-eiitleman will be very glad to find that the Presid; Mt of the Council, who. on this side as well as on that side ol c!i.^ House, invariably pressed in the strong(^st terras the ]ii • cution of the eastern link with the Canadian Pacilic kjiihvay. is able now to cheer himsell', not upon the attuiuni. lit of the line to the Georgian Bay, but on the imv.i. diute steady prosecution of a line connecting the great Pr.viii'jj of Quebec and all the Eastern Provinces by the St il h{ a m se •I 2t lot have ouse the has ever conelu- the late said : the terms e want of an object our trade terms, esirable 3SS across I possibly ble." rumen t itlemaii v_ay was linion to -jar Lake ■, and we Lfoorgian roin the »ec lines, * ibly and es. lion. )vince of ur plan, to avoid ■ injured at the )n that ; terras ruidian on the )ii the ; great by the shortest and most available route with the fertile territories of the North-West. The hon. leader of the Opposition has indulged, as is his wont, in a good many sneers on this subject. He taunted our Quebec friends on this side of the House with having been left out in the cold, and with having been sacrificed. I trust. Sir, that now that these gentlemen are in a position to receive these taunts with a a good deal of equanimity, they will find that hon. gentle- man ready to consider what the interests of this great eastern section of the country are, as he was when he supposed that they had not obtained the justice which he thought they were entitled to receive at our hands. The hon. leader of the late Government said : '' I was miller the impression I had done for Quebec eveiythin^ that was reasonable and proper, and I am quite willing to contrast it witli what tlio hon. gciitlemeri opposite have done up to this moment. But 1 am not to l;e Icil (liriuy line of argument by any such siile issue. I am speaking, at present, of the bearing of the Pacilic Railway scheme upon the interests of Quebec. 1 am speaking of tlie plan we adoj)ted to carry trade by the (Ottawa Valley to the great cities on the St. Lawi'ence, and 1 have asserted, what no one will deny, that that plan was one which [)romised well lb:' the 2)rosperity of these cities." As I have stated to the House, the modification of the plan of the hon. leader of the late G-overnmeut greatly extended the considera,lion to be given to contractors, and as he says, in his own terms, they were all in favor of iiarties tendc.ing. The hon. gentleman also said : " T confess that, after the hon. gentlemen opposite had committed themselves to the building of this roail, the late (Jov^rnment wei'e itnund, as the successors of tijose h.^n. gentlemen, to give ettect to their plan, if possili!(\ anil we ti-ied our best to do so. Onr modilicatioi.j of their plan were all in favor of parties tendering, .'uid, therefore, should have produced tenders, though theirs failed. The plan of the late Government provideil for tlie pavment of ^KyjiJO in cash per mile, extending over the entire 2,t;UU miles." It provided more. It provided $10,000 in cash per mile, not only extendins" over 2,027 m^les of road, but also over the Georgian Bay branch and over the Pemlnna branch as well. Th(i hon. gentleman further rsaid : « This would make the total !:'2:),000,UOO. to wliich add $1,000,000 for surveys, ficcordinir to the hon. L'entlemau's statement, would make $;2',),0< 10,000, leaving 81,000,000 still to be devoted to the eastern' end to pay tJie greater portion of the subsidy to the Canada Central liailway. If the late Covernment could have obtained oilers." "Wliich would have enabled them to construct the road for |!2';,00(),000. I think it would have been their duty to have accepted them. They did 28 not h.avp .'iiiy of ors made tlieni, and tlic lion. pentlen:an knew that he could not get any or he would have asked for tl em." I invite the hon. gentleman's attention to this statement, becansc it clothes ns, as far as he could, with his approval in clealinir in relation to this very matter. Now, ISir, wa have nc'ceptod an offer, a better ofTer than that contained in the hon. uenlleman's proposal, as I will show the House in the mo- 1 distinct and conclusive manner, and I claim from the hon. gentleman that support to which I c-onsider he was pledged to this scheme. I did not suppose that when the hon. gentleman, in his place as leader of the Opposition, stated that if Government would do a certain thing he would support them, that when they did that he would withdraw that support, or hesitate to implement the pledge which h(> gave across the floor of the House. I read that statement of the hon. trentleman who said he would scorn to use any deception. I believed it, and accepted it, and hold him to it, bound as he is by this declaration. When I have shown the House, as I wnll show, that our terms, the terms which w^e have laid on the Table of the House, to be much wnthin the terms he pledged himself to support ns in, I will claim from the hon. gentleman the fullilinent of his pledge. The hon. gentleman said the Grov" nment did not have any offers made them. Well, Sir, why did ho not get any offers ? He did not get any offers because the position of this country was such for five years as to make it impossible for hon. gentlemen to obtain any offers in that direction. But, Sir, when under the inliuojices to which I have adverted, the whole tone of the press of EngLnid changed ; when a large body of people, the best class ol* immigrants that can come to this country became alive v>ith excitement with reference totW^ Canadian North- West ; when. Sir, a movement, such as nev<'r previously took place, was occupying the attention of capitalists as well as iiumigvants in l]ngland with relation to the North- West, and when, under the fiscal policy propounded to this House by my hon. friend, the Minister of Finance, tiio whole financial position of this countiy wis changed: wheii com- mercial prosperity had again, undu* the influ(^nce of that cliange in th(; fiscal policy, dawned upon Canada, — 1 say, Sir, when the Government of Canada were able to present themselves to the capitalists of the world, either in this country or the United States or Jn England, and show, not 29 low that he [■atemcnt, approval r, ISir, wo tai 110(1 ill tlouso in aim iVom :^r he was vhon the >position, thing- he le would le pledg-e read that uld 8corn d it, and . When -ir terms, [loase, to ) support iliilment '^ nment r, why y oiTers for live o o])taiii ider the of the ople, the became 11 North- iviously as well h-West, s House whole en coiii- of that -1 say, pri'Sv'iit iu this o\v, not that year after year they had to meet Parliament with an alarinin;" defi(;it, and were unable to provide for it, and were adding from year to year to the accumulating]^ indebtedness of the country, not for the prosecution of public works that wer.! going to give an impetus to our industries, but merely to enable the ordinary expenditure of the country to be met by revenue, — when that all this was changed, the aspect of alfairs in relation to this work changed. When, under the previous condition of things, my hon. friend opposite could not obtain oilers in response to the advertisement which he pu])lish<'d all over the world, asking linaneial men to take up this scheme in consideration of $10,000 in cash per mile, and 20,000 acres of land per mile, and asked in vain, not being able to get a single oiler ; when this advertisement was published, notwithstanding all his efforts in England and in this country in relation to it, and he obtained no response whatever, why. Sir, the hon. gentleman might fairly assume that we could not obtain any offers eithm-. But as I say, when under a changed policy and when the Govern- ment had successfully grappled with the most difficult l^ortions of this great work, and shown to the capitalists of the world, under the authority of this House, that one hun- dred million acres of land were placed at our disposal for the iprosecution of the undertaking, that we were not afraid to go on with its construi'tion, or afraid to show that the con- struction of the Canadian Paciiic Railway was a work which, however gigantic in its nature, however onerous an under- taking was in v'olved ill the work, or however serious the liabilities it imposed, was capable of fulfilment ; when, notwithstanding all this, we showed that we were not afraid to go forward and prove to the capitalists of the world that we ourselves had some confidence in this country and in its development, that we were prepared to grapple with this gigantic work, the aspect of affairs was wholly changed. "Well, Sir, under these circumstances the Govei-ninent sub- mitted their policy to Parliament, and they were met by obstruction last Session ; they were met by a complete change of front on the part of the Opposition in this House The men wiio had for five years declared that they were prepared to construct the Canadian Paciiic ItaiUvay as a public work, the iieii who had pledged themselves to British Columbia to construct it as a public work, and who had, in the House, ill every way that men coulll, bound themselves, called a 'W' ;,, 80 halt in order to obstruct the Government when we took the only means by which we could remove the difficulty which had prevented the hon. gentleman from obtaining any offers in reply to the advertisement that he had sent all over the country. I hold the adv^ertisement in ray hand. It was published on the 29th May, 1876, and it says that " they invite tenders to be sent in on or before the 1st January, 18V7, under the provisions of the Canadian Pacific Railway Act, 1874, which enacts that the contractors for its construc- tion and working shall receive lands or the proceeds of lands." Mark the words " lands or proceeds of lands," they were not only to receive the lands, but they were to receive, if it were thought desirable, the proceeds of lands. Mr. Mackenzie. The hon. gentleman is not fair in stating that. I am surprised ho should make that statement, for, if he looks at the Act, he will find that the arrangement was for the Government to sell two-thirds of the lands, and then to offer the proceeds to the contractors. Sir CiiAiiLES TUPPER. I am glad that the hon, gentle- man has reminded me of it, for we leave the contractors to bear the entire cost of disposing of the lands, whilst the hon. gentleman undertook to pay the cost of disposing of two-thirds of the land, and then give the proceeds to them without any deduetion in the price. I am glad that he has mentioned it, because it shows how much greater than I am stating were the terms that he ottered in this advertisement. Then it goes on to say " or the proceeds of the lands at the rate of twenty thousand acres, and each at the rate of ten thousand dollars for each mile of railwav in the North-West, and at the rate of $10,000 per mile, together with interest at the rate of 4 per cent, for twenty-five years from the completion of the work, on any further sum that may be stipulated in the contract, and the Act requiring parties generally to state in their offers the lowest sum per mile upon w^hich interest may be required." That was adopted, and an advertisement published all over the world, in Great Britain, this country, and the United States. I presume he believed that under the circumstances to which I have adverted that the time had come when we might deal with the matter from a better position. I will frankly state to the House that one of the causes which led to the great change in the public sentjiribnt in relation to the value of 31 e took the ilty which ; any oflfers I over the [1. It was hat " they t January, c Railway s construc- s of lands." y were not 3, if it were lot fair in statement, rangoment lands, and on, gentle- contractors whilst the isposing of ds to them that he has than I am ertisement. ands at the rate of ten orth-West, th interest from the at may be ing parties n per mile IS adopted, d, in G-reat )resume he ch I have ; deal with ly state to ■4 '1 'if. 1 % the e value great of land in the North-West, and of railway enterprist? in the North- West, was the marked and wonderful success that was published to the world as having resulted from the Syndi- cate who had purchased the St. Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba Railway, and became the proprietors of that line. The statements they w^ere enabled to pul)lish showed not only the rapidity with which railway construction in private hands could be carried on, but it showed the valr.e of the prairie lands in the North-West, and the extent to which they could be made valuable for the construction of such lines. It attracted the attention of capitalists in rela- tion to enterprises of that kind to a degree that had a very marked influence, undoubtedly, upon the public mind, in relation to this question. I may further frankly state to the House, because we have nothing to conceal, that when we decided that it was desirable for us to ask intending con tractors and capitalists on what terms they would (?o]riplete and take over the road of the Canadian Pacific Railway, we placed ours(?lves in communication with all the parties whom we had any reason to suppose would have any inten- tion to contract for the purpose of getting their lowest possi- ble oflcr. As my right hon. friend has stated, Canadian and American capitalists made proposals for the construction of the remaining portions of this work. The Government ]n'o- poscd to complete the line from Thunder Bay to the Red River. We proposed to complete the contracts that were made in British Columbia in the canyons of the Fraser River, and to carry the line on — for it was an absurdity for the terminus of the Canada Pacific to be at a place where there was only a depth of three feet of water, however advisabl(3 it might be for temporary purposes — and we proposed to com- plete ultimately ninety miles of a line from Emory's Bar to be constructed down to tide water at Port Moody, the harbor selected by the hon. gentleman opposite as the best terminus for the Canadian Pacific Railway. We are always ready, and are prepared, to give all the credit and i^raise that we possibly can give to our friends opposite, and we showed it by the adoption of the place which the hon. gentlemen in their wisdom had chosen as the terminus. Mr. Blake. You said that it was premature. Sir Charles Tupper. I did say that it was premature, and we examined further before we ado pted the route. We ill' 32 considcivd all the rout«^s which, in our judg-inont, were the best, but th()U<4ht thero was another iuvostiuation which should be made before iiiudly deciding;. After doing so, we I'ouiid, iiotwithstandinij^ some advantag'es in the northen: route, that we were prepared to endorse the wisdom of the hon. L^'ntlfmen as to where the port for the terminus should be. We then i)roposed to complete the line from Thunder Ikv to ]\ed Uiver, from Kamloops to Emory Bar, and ultimately down to Port Moody. We asked the parties upon what terms they would undertake to build the remainiufr portions of the Ijne from Nipiysini^' to Thunder Bay, th(^ distance bein;^ about G")0 miles ; it has been chained for the lirst time during the past season, and is (j'>2 miles. We asked upon what ti'rms they would undertake to complete all the line from the lied River westward to Kamloops, and take over and own the whole road. Mr. Mackenzie. Will you pl;ic ^ a copy of these proposi- tions as you made them upon the Table ^ Sir CiiAin/.:s Tupper. Yes ; I have no objection to do so; but it will give the hon. gentleman no additional information to what I have .-uccinctly stated as having been decided. Mr. Mackkxzie, And also the names of the parties to wdiom it was made. Sir CiiARLKS Tupper. I may .^ay to the hon. gentleman that it was communicated. Mr. Mackenzie. Not by public advertisement, like mine. Sir Charles Tupper. It was not ; and I think we could have taken no better means of defeating the object we had in view than the very course that the hoxi. gentleman had taken. It was enough to deter anybody from looking at it, seeing that he had stated on the iloor of Parliament that no offer could be obtained. We took a wiser i)lan, which has been crowned with success. By placing ourselves in communication with parties who were likely to make any prDpositions, we have the pleasure now of laying before the House a proposition to which, in its eliaracter and details, I shall invite more closely the attention of the House in comparison with the proposal previously made. I have Ki 1 , were the oil which ing so, we I northen: om of the ins should 1 ThundtT Bar, iind he jnirties build the ) Thunder '11 chained G'>2 miles, lertake to ijtvvard to se proposi- tion to do additional iviiig been parties to entleman lent, like we could t we had man had ing at it, it that no hich has selves in lake any •eiore the details, I louse in I have 33 stal<'d lo Ihe House that the contract which is now laid upon the Ta])le. and which the resolution asks the House to adopt, secuves the compl(>tion and the operation hercat'ter ot the Canadian Pacific Kailway by a private company, aidt.'d by a grant of money or lands, upon the most favorable terms that have ever been submitted to this House, or that have ever l)een proposed by any person in this country for the purpose of securing that object. I will gi\ c the data and the delinite information for the grounds upon which 1 base that siatement. I may state lirst that I have had a careful estimate prepared, and have laid it upon the Table, of th«) amount of money required to complete tlu' road now under conlrtict, and those portions of the road that are to })e constructed f>y the Government, and it amounts in round figures to twenty-eight millions of dollars. Mr, Llake. Is that inclu>i\n'. of all that has b;HMi s[)eiu ■ tSir CilAiiLEH TUPPEIJ. It is every dollar of expenditure that will come out of the Treasury of Canada for tlie existing contracts and for the completion of the road that is to be built by the Government. Mr. IjF.ake. Are these figures intended to represent the total cost oi th(»se works, including what has been spunt .'' Sir Charles Tupper, Every dollar of (Expenditure. It will be remembered that a year ago I made some remiirks on this subject in this House, and I am told that some hon. gentlemen would like to have copies ol the speech that I made on that occasion. I can only say, so far as the limited supply in my hands will enable me, that I shall b.> very glad to comply with that wish, because I am not at all unwilling that they should read, mark, learn and inwardly digest its contents, and hold me responsible for them. Mr. Blake. I think I have heard mu
  • iiit'('r ; it was |)ul)liisln'(l ill a i)auii)liU'i vvliich we uscil iii the dt'bate. Tlio hoii. gciitlt'iiiiiH, a .sliort time ;!i»'0, ropoalcd tho words I usod ill regard to the charactor of the road, l)y statinjv that it was a d»*,uradfd road. That was literally and s])ocitically corvc'ct, for I staled 1o Ihe lloviso that in the jjosition the (jloverniiient tiieii were, with this giganti*' work in hand, obliged to deal with it as a (loverninent work ; we felt com- pelled, after construoting the road to the ]\ed River as a lirst class road, which we had carried out in acconhmce with the sjx cilicalions and plans, very judicious s])ecilieations and plans of my hon I'riend opposite, to carry the road across the ])r;iiiio of the very cheapest descrij^tion of road that woiihl niis\v<'r for the business of ihe country, and be in the first instance a cohniization road. The House will remember that that estimate was i'oY $84,000,0(10 for the work done in the mode in which we propostMJ to deal with it. That included eighty millions as the portion of money I'equired for the road and the money expended upon surveys. Mr. ri.AKE I'oes the eighty-four millions include that? Sir Cii VK1>ES TriM'ER. Yes ; in the eighty-four millions were included the rem))ina branch, which was estimated at s! ',700,000, and the surveys. I may state that this estiinati' which 1 have laid upon the Table dillers in some measure from the(\stimate laid upon the Table last year, and 1 will tell you frankly why. W*' stated that we had made our calculations upon the outside estimates. We determined not to be in a position to have to say to the House that the estimat(^s ui)on which money had ])een voted for the con- struction of th(^ railway had been exceeded. Mr. ^Mackenzie. Whit h contract ^ Sir Cu VULES TuppER. All the contracts between Thunder Bay and the lied River. Mr. M.\('KENZIE. Does the hon. gentleman say that he pri'pared these contracts, or that they were prepared in his time ? Sir Charles Tupper. I say that we twice posti)oned the advertisement in order to get the most specific details. ■y 05 ISO that wo «'('!• ; it was flu' debate. tli»» words I stntiii^- that si)ociti('ally l)(>.sitioii the )ik in hand. w<' I't'lt com- [ Rivor as a (laiico with icatioiis and road across r road that id be ill the louse will (KlO for the o deal with oi' money luled upon •hide that .'' ur millions s estimated > that this ers in some t year, and had made determined is«» that the 'or the con- between ay that he red in his posti)oned details. -y Mr. MACKEXziii:. What 1 wish (o know is, w!i(4h(>r tlio specilieatious were ehaiigvd between the is:uiiiig' of the lenders and the time wh<^n they were n^ceived. Sir CllAKi.K,s TUPPER. All 1 can say is that bi^fore wo sent out the specilications or entertained tenders at all, in addition t(^ the time that elapsed bjtween the eliango of Crovernment and our entry into oltice, we twice exti'iided IKl; time for receiving' tenders so that the spiM.'illcalions mi<^'ht be made with sulllcienl aeouracy. This (Estimate that is now prepared by the presLMit iCngineer, and which I have laid on llie Table of the House, —the' S2S, 000,000 — (Overs all the money that has bi-en spent up to th(! present time, and all the money that in our jud'^'ment, in the light of the work that is now proceeding', will bj required to eomplete it as required by the contract on the Table. Mr. Ax«;ll\. The Yalo-Kamlooixs section? ^5ir Cll APPLES TUPPEK. Yes ; the Yale-Kami oops section and everything. I have already stat(»d that the amount that is put in for engineering, apart from the con.itruction, is .i$l.(J00,0OO, and 1 draw that as a distinction between the three millions of dollars (Extended over the whole range of the Can idiaii Pacific Kailway geiKM'ally, and which has no relation whatever to the (^ost of this particular work th•^t vs'c are now handing over. This sum has no relation in this sense, that it does not api>ertain to the construction of that particular work. Mr. Blake. It was part of th*^ expense of finding the route on which the road was to hi' built, and therefore part of the cost of it. Sir Charles TupPER. Ifthehon. gentleman will look at the Canadian Pacilic JiaiUvay Act of 1874 of his hon. friend (Mr. Mackenzie), he will liiid that it distinctly states that these surveys are not necessarily to be paid for by the parties entering into the contract. Mr. Mackenzie. It says that is a matter lo be provided for after the contract is entered into. Sir CiivELES TiTPPER. I stated frankly that the law provided that it might or might not ))e a charge on the contractors, but W' hen it was left in that w^ay it was not likelv to be a charge on them. M' ■HHMMVtIMi •Vj i J" Mr. M.vcKiiNziE. 1 1 is a eluirgc on (he country at all events. Sir CiiAPtLES TOPPEII. This (^siimato ^Yhich has been laid upon the Table does not include that cost for surveys. That, a year ago, I separated IVom th(? §80,900.000 required lor the Canadian Tacilic ]\aihvay. l)ut it does include all the other expeiK-ituro. as we believe tliat had been made, and all that Avill l)e involved in order to bring that work to completion. 1 will now draw altention to the estimates oi' the contract as laid on tlie Table of the House. The cstiiuattHl distance, and the distance which is contracted for, and which is binding on the contractors, is 2,627 miles' ; and I may state that, suppose the contractors were to change the road — suppose they were to go north of Lake iS'epigon instead of south of it, and add fifty miles to the length oi the road, they would not receive an additional dollar over and above the amount slated in the contract. Sir Albert J. SMrni. Suppose they shorten it ? Sir CiiAKT j:.^. TurPEi:. If they shorten it, f should be very glad to Und tliat they do, and they will rec*nve the amount stated in the contract if they do so. We have chained the route, as I say. and the distance is 652 miles, but it is not very (>asy to locate li railway lor construction (juite as short as the chained distance, 1 think that will be readily understood I will now take up in the contract all these propositions in the ordev in which they have l^een laid on the Table ot this House — the order in which they have been voted ])y this Parliament. 1 will take up the propositions of 187^, the authority that Parliament gaA'e to the then GovernuK'nt to secure the < e>nstruction of the Canitdian Pacilic Piailway. It was a cash sub.sidy of $00,000,000, for the main line of 2,627 miles (I am putting the mileage upon the present r(nit(^ for the purpose of contrast), and the land grant of 50,000.000 acivs ; 20,000 acres per mile for the Pembina Ihanch, making 1,700,000 acres, and 25,000 acres per mile on 120 miles for the Nepigon Lranch, making y,000,0:JO acres ; so that Parliament, in 1872, voted 54, ("00,000 acres. If you estimate the laud at some particular value for the purpose of compari.son — Mr. Blake. Hear, hear. Sir CiiAELE.< TuprEi;. Call it one dollar per acre, and I am sure, unbelieving as my hon. friend, the leader of the f ry at all U1S been surveys, required le alHhe ide. and work to nates ol' se. The ^cted for, ilee ; and ange the iS'epigon ;th of the )ver and Ibe very amount Ined the is not IS short readily 1 these laid on ive hem )ositions le then anudian OOO, for ge upon le land for the acres making 00,000 alue for L\ and I of the 37 Opposition is. uiibclicvinu' and wanting- in confidence, as he has indui'cd the leader of the late Government to become in the value of these lands, I am almost sure that, \vith the help of the Globe, I could work them up to the belit-f that thest^ li.nds are worth a dollar an acre. I despair of getting them further than that, even with that potent assistance, but I hope to bring them up to the belief that these lands a-H worth a dollar an acre. For purposes of comparison, then. A'e will call it worth a dollar an lU'iw This Parlia- ment A oted in land and money a subsidy of $84,700,000, and phu-ed it at the disposal of the Grovernment for the construc- tion of the Canadian Paciiic Ivaihvay. How has that pro- position been treated? AA'hy, Sir, as I have stated, a com- ]iany was formed, a contract was made with them under the terms of which they were clothed with all the powers find means that we could give them, to command the money markets of the world, and they could not do it. Mr. Anglin. I thought it was he who spoiled it. Sir CiiAliLES TUPPER. The hon. 1 'ader of the late Govern- ment has ever since poured ur Hounded ridicule on that proposition ; he hi.s always considered those terms inadequate to secure the construction of the great Pacihc Jvailway. The hon. gentleman, on the platform, in my presence, declared — and he could not have poured greater ridicule on the i>rqject than by the expression he used — that we might as Avell olfer ten dollars as thirty millions of dollars and fifty million acres of land to secure the Canadian Paciiic Railway. From that day to this — not quite to this, but until a few months ago — until the contract was made, every person in this country had been led to believe (our own friends as well as our opponents) that the hon. gentle- man was right ; that those terms were inadequate, and the experience of our Government and the subsequent five years of the kite Administration had gone to prove that they were inadequate ; and the hon. gentleman will find that last year, when I was in extremis, when I was met by hon. gentlemen opposite, raising a hue and cry that we were going to ruin this country by the construction of the Cana- dian Pacific Railway, and the necessity was great to reduce as low as possible the construction of this work, the lowest estimate that I eould submit to this IIous,', for what I admit is a degraded road, was $80,000,000. I now come to the •>-Pf.'»f! ' ■f^KW-^-^/t'^ti : m 'I 38 proposition of 1874. And what does that show ? Tho hon. gentleman got Parliairent to vote for the construction of 2,627 miles of the through lines from Lake Nipissing to Burrard Inlet, for 85 miles of the Pembina branch, and for 85 miles of the Georgian Bay branch — 2,*797 miles — all of which are contained in the Act, and all declared to be treated on the same terms, and entitled to the same amount as if they w.'re on the main lino Mr. Mackenzie. I was not aware that +uat Act declared Burrard Inlet to be the terminus. Sir Charles Tupper. The hon. gentleman ought scarcely to interrupt me with a captious objection of that kind, which has nothing to do with the question. He knows that, as a matter of comparison, 1 must take a definite route, and he knows also that he was dealing with the liurrard Inlet rout(\ because he was dealing with the route that he should decide was the best, and he did decide that tht^ Burrard Inl( ' was the best. The hon. gentleman should not, therefore, interrupt me with such a frivolous objeecion wnich has nothing to do with the subject, but which is calculated to draw mo aside from the argument. Well, what did it amount to? It amounted to this, that with the shortest route Mr. Mackenzie. No. Sir Charles Tupper. The shortest route, because if the hon. gentleman takes any other practicable route he will increai^e the distance. Mr. Mackenzie. N'>. Sir Charles Tupper. Yes. Mr. Mackenzie, Not the shortest. There are shorter routes. Sir Charles Tupper. I come to the Act — the law put on the iStatute-book by the hon. gentleman himself— the authority that this Parliament gave him to construct the Canadian Pacific Eailway and what does it enact ? It says that on this 2,7i>7 miles, including the main line and branches, he got voted, not by estimate, but by auth >T.iy if a statute, to use SIO, 000,000 for that distance, whica is 2,797 miles. And, Sir, he got authority to give 20,000 acres of land for everv mile of that distance, which amounted to ^5.940,100 acres. 39 Che hou. ictioii of ssing to id I'or 85 )f which eated on i if they dcchired - scarcely" 3, which hat, as a ', and he rd Inlet e shonkl ard h\\i ' herelbre, nich has ilated to t did it shortest 'cause if e he will e shorter law pnt self— the truct the It says line and h >T.iy of vvhicu is DOO acres ninted to ' Mr. Blake. Not on every mile. Sir Charles Tupper. On every mile, as the hon. gentle- man will S(.'e by the Act of 18*74. Mr. Ulake. I thought the contract for the Georgian Bay branch was not based on a land subsidy at all. Sir Chakles Tupper. This was Mr. Foster's contract, which gave 20,000 acres of land, and if the land could not be got along the line, il was to be taken anywhere else in the Dominion. Mr. Mackenzie. We do not own the land there at all. Sir Charles Tupper. K had to be got in the North- West. ■ Mr. Mackenzie. That is perfectly w^ell known. Sir Chaijles Tupper. The contract makes it a dtmbtful question whether it could he obtained irom the Province of Ontario or not. At that time the hon. gvntleman had some hopes ol' actinr^ on the sense of justice of the Province of Ontario, ajid he might have obtained some land from them. Mr. Macke.xzie. Formal application was made. Sir CiiARLi:."^ Tupper. Yes; but not successfully ; that Act also provides lor four per cent, on such additional amount as would be required by the contractors 'n order to build the road. The hon. gentleman published his advertise- ment for six months without getting any response. Now, how shall we arrive at the amount that was to be paid, in compurisoii with the other contract ? There is a very satis- far liirv mode. The hon gentleman let the contract for 85 r-fles" Mid although 1 am prepared to admit that that portion •)i 1 j,> -oad is more dillicult of construction than a great deal of .'i'- .'';citic llailway, still the hon. gentleman will not deny '1' i it is a very fair average. Mr. Macke.xzie. I do. Sir Charles Tupper. Then, Sir, I hr.ve lost confidence in the lion, gentleman altogether. Fas the hon. gentleman forgotten that when the Foster contract was cancelled, and we stated that he was not as \^■ise in letting this contract as he might have been, he scouted the idea, and said then^ was ?i.j dillicult y whatever, and that the contract was not i*,b J doned for any such reason as was alleged. -',^^i»j-vA«?-' .gipsgt't ^i^M^ 40 Mr. Mac'IvENZie. stated. I could only state \\ hat the engineers Sir CiiAELES TUPPER. I have no doubt, when the hon. g(^ntleman made that stnlfment, he believed it to be the truth. 11" the hon. g'entleiuan will look at the line north ol' Lake Superior and examine the character oi' a considerable portion of it, and then examine the character of the line from the canyons of the Fras.er liiver or from the foot of the Kocky Mountains and thence to Kamloops, Emory's l?ar and on to Burrard Inlet, I think he will agree that the Georgian Bay Ih-anch is a fair average of the whole line. Wln^n the hon. gentleman advertised he obtained a tender from Mr. Munson, of Boston, at four per cent, on |7,500, while the Foster tender was four per cent, on $12,500, and the other tenders were vastly b^vond that sum. Mr. Foster became possessed of the lowt . der — that is, Mr Munsoa's ; a contract was made witi. .m, and that contract I have in my hand. You will find that it provides for paying Mr. Foster ^10,000 in ca.sh per mile, 20,000 acres of land per mile, and tour per cent, for 25 yt>ars on .97,")00. But I must remind the House that afti r Mr. Foster had gone to New York and exhausted everv eflort he could make in lllngland, he found he could not get a capitalist in the world to invest a dollar in his contract ; so that when I take that contract as a lair average of the cost to be added to the amount for which the hon. gentleman had authority from Parliament to use, i think I have taken an average which every business man will admit is a moderate one. The interest, at four per (\mt , on $7,500 is $300 a year i)er mile, and adding that to the amount I have stated, and on the 2,!)77 miles we have $20,977,500 Mr. Bi AKE. AYhy do you not capitalize that sum ? Sir Charles Tupper. 1 do not capitalize at all, but it would have to be paid in money as the other is paid. JNIr. Blake. Hear, hear. Sir Charles Tupper. Does the hon. gentleman mean to say that w^hen w^e incur an obligation under a contract we have not the money to pay ? Mr. Blake. The obligation to p.xj year by ye ir for 25 years, does not mean the gross sum of these payments added together, as everybody knows. 41 enginoers Lon the hon. t to b(^ the ino north of •oiisiderable he line from f the Kocky r and on to eoro-ian Bay len the hon. Ay. Munson, the Foster ther tenders le possessed ; a contract in my hand. riter ^10,000 nd lonr per d the House d exliansted id he could ollar in his air average ch the hon. se, 1 think I 11 Avill admit t, on $7,500 he amount I 977,500 sn m ? t all, but it paid. lan mean to contract we ye.ir for 25 nents added Sir Charles Tuppeii. No, Mr. Speaker, but it means a very much less sum. Let the hon. gentleman ai)ply that principle to the !$:!•"), 000, 000 we are to pay the Syndicate, and he will fuid th;ii it means a very much less sum too. The hon. gontlcniiiu will iind that by the terms under which Parlia- ment, in 187-1, authorized the late Government to secure the construction of the Pacilic Railway. The amount to be paid in cash was .'!^48,947,.">00, wiiich, with Ao, 040, 100 acres of land at $1 per acre, would make $104,887,502— the lowest amount, as the hon. gentleman must admit, which tould represent accurately the amount to be exi^endcd upon that scheme. It being Six o'clock the Speaker left the Chair. AFTER PtECESS. Sir C.iARLFS TuppEE, resuming, said: Mr. Chairman, when the recess took place, I was dealing with the question of the amount that I'arliament had placed at the disposal of my hon. friend, the then lead(^r of the Government, for the construction of the Canadian Pacific* Pail way, and I iiiul. Sir, that 1 have made a slight mistake, which 1 take the earliest opportunity of correcting; I slated the distance from Nipissing to Burrard Inlet at 2,027 miles; I must add 40 miles to that distaiK-e in computing the amount which (the Act of 1874) Parliament placed to the disposal of the leader of the Government for the construction of the railway, because, you will remember, the; then Government located the terminus of the railway, not at the Callendar Station on Lake Nipissing, where it is now located, and wheie it was originally located by the former Government, but forty miles south of tha; pomt. Therefore, under that Act, ill,' licii. gentleman would not only have been obliged to exin-iid .^li)i,S87,500 at the lowest computation, but to provide lor the coiistrii' tion on the same terms of 40 miles more, to biiim" the railwav down to the terminus as loi-ated by the Ijeii viovernment. That will add $400,000 in cash, $;i00,00i; in money as four per cent on $7,500 per mile, for 25 years, and $800,000 in land at a dollar an acre, or $1,500,000 annually, to make the estimate strictly correct — in all s 100,387,500. Now, Sir, having shown that Parlia- ment had placed at the disposal of the Government oi my rigat hon. friend (Sir John A. Macdonald) in 1872 5$b4,70O,OOO for the construction of the w^ork, and that Par- 42 liament had placed $104,887,500 at the disposal of the leader of the Government in 1874— to which we must add the $1,500,000 to which I have just referred— I now ,857,r)00 placed at the disposal of the Government of my hon. Irieiul opposite for securing the construction of the road. Placing the lands at s^l.OO an acre, how stands the contract ■wo have laid on the Table ? It shows a total of $90,-100,000. If we go the whole length the C/ohe asks, and I do not' say it is unreasonable, if we assume those lands to be worth, after the construction of the road, ^-2 an acre, how will tho account stand as between those various proposals suljniitted for the consideration of Parliament in ibrmer times, and readily accepted by it, and the proposal we now lay on the Table;* The Hrst propositioii, that of 1873, placed at the disposjil of the Cfovernment lan-^ , and money worth $13.S,100,000. The amounts placed at the disposal of the late Governments in 1874, valuing the lands at !s2 an acre w^as $160,827,500 on the 2,707 miles. The present propo- sition, valuing the lands at $2 an acre, reaches a total of only $103,000,000, or less than the amount at $1 an acre, placed at the disposal of the Into Government by Parliament for the construction of the Canadian Pacillc Railway. I thinl; this statement ought to be tolerably satisfactory to any hon. gentleman who wishes to make a fair and just comparison of the lu-oposals previously sul)mitted with the present proposal. I will give an authority on this subject, because that derisive cheer from the member for Lambton intimates that he is not satis lied ; that he is still doubttul as to my having maintaiiu^d the position with which I set out, that the terms now submitted for the ratification of Parliament are greatly below any t(n-ms ever submitted and approved of. I wall now give hon. gentlemen opposite an authority as to the cost of this work, about to be undertaken, that 1 think they will bo compelled to accept. It is the authority of their own statements, of their own opinions, and I think I will sliow% from the opinions of the leader of the late Government and the late Finance Minister, that th(5 cost of this work is such as to justify any intelligent man in accepting the propositions now submitted as eminently advantageous in the interest of the country, and as not 40 beyonil what the parties iiiidortakiiii:^ to poiToi-m surh work are entitled to ;eceive. On the 12th oi' May, IS7-^, Mr. Mackenzie said . " Vvniv. ili;it point wostward it is f|iiito cloar tliiit thcru i.^ no moans of v'.\\>\d (■(imiiuiiiioatioii t'xci'])t In Imildiii,!,' a railway, auil this jxntion in Bi'itisli ('olniul)ia alono would take ."i^iOjIKKtiOdO, and IVoin tlio ])i)iiit wliicit Mr. i-"lineiil and experience that could be brouyhl to bear upon it, that !iiilO(),000,000 ^vould he required for the road IVom Lake ^Superior, at Thunder Bay, to the raeilic l)ceau ; and yet tiie present proposition secures the construction of the entire road within ten yeai-s from the Ist July next, I'rom Lake Nipissing- to Ihirrard Inlet, at a cost to the country, at the estimate hon. gentlenuMi opposite placed on the hnids, of $7b.000,000. One Avould have supposed ilie member for Lambton vvotild have stood ag'hast at such an estimate as A100,<)00,r)00 for the portioii of the road menlioned, and would have abaudoiied it as beyojul the resources of Canada. But stiindino- as Prime Minister and wei;,^-]i[ed with the responsibility which rests on such a high olii :3r, he lelt he must not shrink from his duty, and lit^ stated of the section ill British Columbia, that would cost $o"), 000, 000, " we pro- pose to proceed with it as rapidly iis we are able to obtain a comi)le'ion of surveys." He also proposed to expend .'i^l0O,00O,O00, if necessary, to coiUK^ct the waters of Lake Superior with the tidal waters of ihe Paciiic. The leader of the late Crovernment also said : " We frankly rocogni/.c the failure of the attempt to ^ivo a fictitious value to lands, in order to get Eiigli;5h capitalists to ta!ii.ed system of giving luth money and lani.'" The hon. g-entleman gallantly performed his duty, and did not shrink from the resx)onsibility, arduous and responsible as was his position, of discharging the duty imposed. He said: " We propose to give a siiecific sum per mile, in the first place of ^10,000 per mile, and, in the next place, a grant the same as that pioposed by the late Government ot 20,000 acres, the disposal of which i will attend to presently; and then we invite intending competitors to state the 47 Itious Ivay •, lirect did lible Ised. 36 of tosed ttend the iinioiint Ibr wliirh tlit-y will roquiro tlio guarantoo at 4 poi^ cent., in ordop to give them wiiat they may (loom a suHit'ioiit sum wliciow itli to \nuhl tlio road. Wo know that souu' tliiiil< S1(),0(»0 jkt mile ami L!(),()!)n acivs of land, supposing they realiso, on an average, !?1 an aoro, will not huild tho road. It would moro than huild it in somo pans, hut IVom ond to end it is evidont it will not huild it. I do not know, and liavo no mrans of estimatin;^' tho prohahlo I'xpondituio \n-v milo furtlioi- than tiiat to 1)6 dorivod iVnm our own cxporit'iioo and that of our noigiihors. Thr Inter- (viionial Itailway will cost aliout >M."»,0<)() a milo, travors'ing, on tho wholo, ii very I'avoralilo coimtry, ami possessing tho most .'imj.lo m<'ans of mimm'ss at various ]i(iints on its ooiu'sc, and with tho additional advantage of having prooureil Ww lion strurturos and rails when thoi'o was a very gioat depression in the prieos of iron. The Northern I'acilie Railway, in the accounts p'-.hlishcfl l»y the Company, has cost, so I'ai'as it has h( on oairi(>(l that is to l\e(l h'iver— ^IT.UOO or §!-lH,()(10 ]ior mile i;i I'ound niimlirrs. AVoll, Sir, tluit roail tra\('i'sos almost wholly a piairie region, easily aooessililc and where materials were easily found, and is altogether (juite as favoi'aliie as the most favorahle ;ui, "tliero canK'-' no (|iK'stion tliiit uliofvcr liiiilds tlio I'OMil, aii>l \vli>MM'V('i' it iiiiiy Im' Ixiilt, it iiiii.-t 1m> •'OMstiiictnl witli momy rurnislicl Ijv tlio iK-oplc ol" tli;s count ly. Wo know, Sir, tiiiit t !P olili^'Htious iiiipo.scil with tlin lniildiu,^ ol' tlic loii'l will not IfMiiiiiialo with tho coiifhision oC its I'oiistruction." I ask th»' boil. L^ciitli'mtni iiol lo Ibri^vt, now that ht' is sitting on thr Opposition hi-nchcs, that in cstiniatini'' this cost, as a Minister, ho iolt that lie would not bo doing his duty ii" he did not draw tin; attontion of tho llonsi' to the i\wX that whon this road is constructed the liability restijig upon the country will not bo dischtirgod, but Just comnieucing. He went on to say : " Siiiijiosiii;,' it only takos tlio luinimuui aiiiount estimated l)y Mr. Sandlonl Fli'iniiig, ? I ()(),(»( )0.(ilK), yon Iiave pretty ^'ood apiu'cciation of what it would cost the country in tho end. AV hen you dotihlo tin- delit of tho countiy you will not Ix^ aMe to acconi|)li>ii tin- liori'owin,.: of the sum of money i'e(inired to liuilresent annual burdens, six millions of tlollars. which, adr, would make a continuous ajiplication of twelve millions of dollars before you have a cent to apply to the ordinary business of the country."' A rather startling ground for the hon. gentleman to take, but one wdiich commended itself to all those \vho listened to the hon. gentleman's address. " Then we come to the consideration of what would be the position of the roud after it was completed, supposing we were able to fulfill the <) 'I'li''uf ilMl.s if( 1 . .. f^ "'' uri:.;";'^i:::!?-"';M''-^"t lu.ss tl ::::^."''''-'''-t'u>rt.i;;:",rf''^'4t und uji:, '••"■-walofdimj "•■■uluMy iiuth.,, icii (loiil>t ti'iat '"; onli,Ki,.y train i^^'i't and iMi|, ••..l/.|i;,- [,,1 1, , , en •WIIH^ I'o.i 1. 1 ■< I'unniii^r ttie t- is k '':"y^;""'iiii^..;tiuso ,.•:!:'!!"' sto •n-i'i' ivouM i..jcou.si.l '■\''^ •■^ii'»stitutoU to 'iiy. Cl'ilij 'iy ^'al y oi.^Mtor n-n y run. r.-iii-.v 'V' ^'''-'Ut. ^'•i'ut to u-l ^*' "'J.'!, t!i.; t oais on ji rir«t '•'U'xt.'at 1 '•U! li),. ii tliat 1 aVHiM, 'SI tliO •■lai at *H'oo^^ooC;;;Ir.f!^?:r'-"«« I"'«^'i(-'nt nil ii>i lo Avhatv uvo '^y to .,, '''!• traffic tlio road opL'rato it. . ^l '>'^iM th(3 road , • " ''-'"i*^ liio road receivorl . V . ^'^'' < led utxt wo u,,od Nteel rails. Th.« j^- 8'<'nMetna.. hims.dr d tloas. and country. And notion of ^^^ would ^^^^ery ei^iu years, uui i« th;. pJoasant pict cojisid IV vv fur tht uro wJiit-ii ik I'rution of tii t'S.S ,0 --■.-.™..,.i...i:-is;i:!- r:-» --^t ii,^^^^:;^.,!:^rn'''•''•-"^-' 'i' tn-er at tloman replied le ortfinury rail, .!^*^'^ arrived you ^Xi)onence wiiich tiie lire v -nV ^^'^ "^iormation and to h,« eoutract, whiei. I %; t ^e o ° ^^ ^vlhsins- his a.t^ Ji'-S.vvoit ayearasro. It will > V ""'" est mate as IlaasarU. Ho said'! *"' ^"""^ °" Page 1441 of "V 50 That' was true, and the Hon. gentleman was only doing his duty in calling the attention of the House to the fact that if, in grappling with this work, we reduced the expenditure to a minimum, we should have only a colonization road. But what else does he say V " According to the old system of construction, that central section would cost, iiicludinp tlie otlier item I have mentioned, altogether over $42,:)00,()00, leaving out e '^irelv both ends. Wliataro the ends to cost? $4'),0. 0,000 is, as 1 have Jt.ited, the cost irom Edmonton to Burrard Inlet on the West; and from Fort William to Nipissing on the East. The bon. member for Lambto'i estimates it at a length of about GoO utiles and a cost of S.'52,.j0(i,000. Thus the ends made up together $!77,OOO,00() the centre and the past expenditure $-i2,oOO,000, making a total of $120,000,000.-' And yet the hrn. gentleman is startled and astonished, and exhibits the most wonderful alarm when he finds a proposal laid on the Table of th(^ House to secure the construction of all tnat work, which, at the cheapest rate, was to cost ^120,000,000, for $78,000,000 -putting the outside value on tho land that the hon. gentleman is willing to admit is worth. The hon. gentleman proceeded to say that, " besides this enormous expenditure, to which he had referred, they had to corsider running expenses, which Mr. Fleming esti- mated at eight millions, and which his hon. friend estimated at the gross sum of $6, To 0.000 a year, for the whol'' line, or $4,500,000 a year from Fort William to the Pacific. Of course, against this sum w;.s to be set receipts, which in some sections perhaps, would meet expenditure , but, in the early days, if not for a long time, he believed, the road woald have to be run at a loss." I know that this is an authority for which the hon. leader of the Opposition has most pro- found respect, and I tiust that, in submitting such criticism as, in tlie interests of country, every great measure of this kind ouoht to receive, the hon. gentleman vviil not lose siffht oi the position he took in criticising our proposals twelve months ago. I will again revert to a a criticism with relation to the cost, of more valuable character than that of the leader of the Opposition No person, porhap^s, esteems the hon. gentleman's ability, certainly as a special pleader, higher than myself, or his general judgment when he gives questions the fair, candid and unbiassed examination which questions like this deserves, but does not always r'.M-eive ; but I will give the House an opinion, which I estim^^te more highly than that of the leader of the Opposition, the opinion ( 51 bl2 hi e Uvitli at of looms lador, li'ives ^hich iive ; liiioro of a gentleman who, for five years, as leader of the Govern- ment ot the country, dealt" with this question, and was conversant with all its details, I mean the hon. loader of the late G-overnment. After '1 his experience, and aftrr a year in the Opposition, as well as of five years of Administration, he undertook to give f^- the House his estimate as to what that road would cost, and I frankly confess that I am not for a moment disposed to cpiestion the value of his iu'ig-niont. He said : " I will lake the description of tlio engineers theniselv«^s, as tn the character of the work upon the several sections from Fort \V;l!ia!n to Selkirk, and carry out figures elsewhere on the same (Ics.'riptinM. S •vonty miles were described as heavy, 22i> miles moderate, and ill miles light; and, in order to reach the $ 1 8,(.)0( ),00(J, which the eiiiivai-.Ts had recently estimated, they would have to take the seventy miii- .i!' houvy work at #7'),00(» per mile ; the liL'f) miles of moderate mi,'lit. at .•? ;<».(lii:i. an«'l tlie 114 light at !s!20,00U, making altogether, with the rollmt: ^to.-k valued at $1,65G,0UU, $18,(100,000. From Selkirk to Battlefonl, the liist llJare described as liglu, v.-lucli, with the rails, fencing, et-\, m;::!it. b>i esti- mated at §14,000 per mile, or ?;i,000 less than the rembina Br,!!i -h : and the second 100 miles I have taken and calculated as to the materials furnished Mr. Marcus Smith, and 1 do not believe that any giaiient can be obtained on tliat secticm to build the road at less than ^iJ.oOO i^er mile." Subsequent events have thrown perhaps a g-ood deal of light on the tt'uders sont in and contract undortakcii. No progress was made on the contract, as the hon. o-'iith^man knows, and the judgment which the hon gontloman had given as to cost, had thereby received very considerable con- firmation. He further said : '•We have in some miles a quantity of ,"'.',000 cubic yards of earth to move, and all grades steej), only kept fifty tlu'c; f'et to the mill! — ;;iauy of them are iifty-three feet. The average of excavation is l(t,()00 cubic yards per n- .•. We have, ui short, 1,600,000 yards of earth to move wliich. attlie lowest price per var I obtained on other roads sav t".ventj'-tive cuts on the average, this" ot itself will cist ^4(>»,000.'' * ..... ''This was alniost tlic exact value of the eaith work alone, leaving nothing f'^r bridges, tie^, rails, building fences, and other- iteru * ^ * * * "t-rom the end of the second two hnu>I etl miles to Battlofor«l we have 377 miles. Tiiis is not any heavier ^ ■! ttie whole There are some mor. iiiriuidab'e hritlges, but the line is fLU'ther otffor the carriage of the rails. 1 place that section at !?2l,0O0 per mile." I draw the attention of the hon. gentleman to this now in connection with tlie amount propositi to be paid under this contract for the contral section. As I have stated. 0[>iiiions which the hon. gentleman has formed after long exporionce, 4J no as to (he lowest amount at which it could be constructed, aiv entitivid to very great consideratiou. Mr. MvcKEXZiE. You did not give much attention to them a year ago. Sir Ciivur.ES Tqpper,. The aon. gentleman says I did not pay much attention to them a year ago, but looked at it in the light of subsequent events, I am dis]")osed to admit that thi^r.^ is a great deal in the argument of the hon. gentle- mi ai. lie again said : "Then fro:n Battlelonl to Edmonton, it is I'cporteJ by the engineers as thirteen niiles very heavy ; iliis 1 ostiaiate as S:)(),UUO a mile, being §tO,()00 lass than the othe- heavy woric east ol' Selkirk." 1 hope that when the hon. gentleman has criticized the amount ^vllich we propose to pay in the central section, he will not forget that it covers 18 miles, which he estimates at $60,000 a mile, .^ 10,000 less than for the heavy work east of Selkirk. Still further : '• t'orty-nine miles more of the line classed as moderately lieavy, I put at i?oU,(>(M) [)(>r mile ; and seventy miles very moderate, at §2'),(KK); with ninety-eight miles of very light work at $2i),i)>)0 per mile, which makes for this section altogether an average of v?:i7,Ui)(j per mile." The hon. g.nitleman said we have constructed the line from Pembina to Selkirk, 85 miles. This is a prairie, and a most favorable region, and he stated that the amount I submitted on t'stimate last year of J»;l,7r)'),000 for the Penlbina Branch, but thai included more than ray estimate now includes for the Poiubina liranch, and for tlie reason, as hon. gentlemen will si'e, the heavy ex[^enditure charged to that branch for workshops, rolling stoi-k, etc., will now devolve upon the Companv, and consequentlv now redin\; the estimate to $l.560,!A)0. Mr. MvCKiiXZiE Give us a detail of the leducticns. Sir v'liAiir.Ks Trpi>i':u. All I cm sav is, that 1 took the esumalc of the engineiv;, char j:ing what was f.iirly charueable (o th;i.t road — buildini»-.' in jjunerlion with iU operation — and th' amount of tlu* P.'ui'oina Uianch was therefore placed at ijil, To 0,000. We novv rcducv; that by >>2o0.000 because, as 1 say, lhe-«Apenditure v.'e would have had to make immedi- ately in conn.^:;tion with the work now devolves upon the Syndicate under tlie contract. But, Sir, the lIous(i will see that, according to the estimate which I laid on the Table last vear, and which hon. gentlemen tliouu'ht alt.02:ether on 53 [he Ible li — ;ed as idi- Ithe 1 see [ble (her below t'le mark, the rembina Branch— a prairi'^ line from end to end, no very heavy bridging, no serious nmskegs, \o dilHenlties really to be encountered, a fair prairie section — according to my own estimate layt year was over $-20,000 a mile ; according to my ci-tirnate now laid on the Table of the House, the I'eirbina I'ranch will cost the Goveninn'nt of this coun.ry, when it is handed over to the Syndicate, ^17,270 a mile. The hon. gentleman continued : "Tliis would lujilce the entire eo-tofthe road west o I' Lake Siiperior inelu.lin<; ;?1,I44,! 00 for the ("a.ioda < eiitiul subsidy, $iO(i,OllU ^or ihe 8el kirk bri(l>,'e, S-<''IM'ver J,94r) mile's, ^>S'J.()'J1.Y"K), Now, there is his opinion. 1 have shown the opinion of the hon. leader oi the Opposition that this work, ibr v, hijh we have shown the contract, asks Parliament ioplac«> at our disposal $7S,0()'V'00. According to the estimate oi' the leader of the Opposition a vcc^" ago was to cost ^1 2* ',000,000, and, according to the estimate — the more mature and r^'duced estimate of the hon. gentleman best qualified to judge on that side of the House— was to cost this country ^;;SV»,()02,!:)00 in cash. There was no question of land ; we a:e dealing with the lowest estimate of the cost in cash taken out of the treasury of Canada, and ihe estimate of the hon. leader of the Opi)osition was, in round numJu'rs, $!^0,000,000, alter all the information he had on the subject. But I am wrong ; I am doing the hon. gentleman a great injustice. Mr. Blaki:. The estimate I gave was that f the hon. member for Lambton. v^ir CiiAELFS Ti'TPER. So I sec. I thought it was I'lat of the hon. member for Lambton, but the case is ;'. li'reat deal stronger. 1 am not even able to show there is a diversity of opinion between the hon. gentlemen. 1 find that they worked it pretty nearly to the same ligure. 1 was leaving out that section north of Laki' Suju'rior, but tiie hon. mem- hvY lor Lambton brings th; t in, and shows that west of Lake Superior, from 'ihiinder lay to the raciii<', the lowest that we could l)uild it lor was 8bl',OOU,000 in (ash. That is the lowest. 1 et us see what he says about the railway to the head of Lake Superior. " Wliil<> Cinm I'oit Will;;u;i to Nipi-HJi,!.% r,.'0 luiles. estitn.'itini; the cost at .V O.titJU ivv iniie, wou.d inak.' it ^,^■i:i,.)()U,(ltl(), or a total ol' cl-l.;()0,Ue(i.'' So that these p«»7ijlemen are not open to the challenge that on a great public cpiestion their estimate diHers. After ii 54 caic^ful consideration, weighing well the responsibility of placinj]: bi'tbre the House statements that were cautious, judicious, avA safe, upon ■'vhich the people of this, country could safely base their estimates, both of these gentlemen agreed a year ago that to build the Canadian Pacific Rail- way with money borrowed for the purpose and expended in cash, the correct estimate that this railway from Lake Nipissiuir to Port Moody, Burrard Inlet, could be accom- plished lor, was $l-20,<,'00,000 to $121,700,000. There was only about a million and a half between them. "Tt will lie obsorve(K if wo ajip'.v tlio finuros as 1 apply tlunn, tliat is <'alcul:itiiii: tlio oxpciiditure oast of I.'od Kiver, between Lake Superior and Selkirk, that it would be inij)os>iblo to obtain tlie same cliaracter of road :i> to L'ladicnts and curvature fir less than I liave (estimated, 1 am sure I ;nii within the lino in stating these iiirures, ami that it would be im- possililc to construct anythini: that t'oukl I>o (uiUed a railway — nothing bett(M' than a tramway, for less." Thai amount is $84,000,000, and yet it was only to be a tram- way, nnd iho! only possible means of geltinq- a line that could be cnll' (1 a railway ^^ as by an expenditure 'of $121,000,000, the ;i mount given by the lion, gentleman. He continues : "'riie hfin. Minister of h'ailways thinks it uiatLi>rs litthi what pirades we have wi st est description of road that wotild answer for coloniza- iioii i)nr])r.ses. I have o-iwn the House the estimates of the two hou. ixetiHemen sittim>' one to the riixht. one to thi> left of the l:Uc Minister oi' I'iiiimce, and 1 slumld be wanting very mu '; in );iy duty to tlie House, if I did not ,>how them thtit th.'it hon. g(Mit1eman himself did not regard the con- structioii of the Canadian Pttciiic Railway as a very light matter, and held very much the views and opinions of his two hononible coH(\tgues ISir Ivichard Cartwright, in 1874, in his Budget speech, said : " In oidii' ciLhtly to uiideisianl()t),()UO,()00, and this, too, on i 55 .'0 •e he ,ill le at le he i>ft iig nn u- ht Lis |4, [he m lUl- lon the supposition that a very much longer time would be given for con.sti'ue- tion. ♦ * • Now, Mr. Chairman, I sjjoke before recess of tue exf)ense arising from the workings of the Intercolonial Railway and other railways of the Dominion, cliieHy in the Maritime Provinces. The deficiencies re- sulting fiom these sources amount to the extraonlinary sum of about $1,25( ),()()(>. i desire to call the special attention of the House, which must be clear to evc^ry hon. gentleman, these railways run for the most j)art through a country which has been settle road afterwards. Now, I am bound to say, I never felt more grat(>h 1 to ParliamiMit in my life than when, notv>'ithstand- ing the startling stattnneiils made by those hon. gentlemt'ii, this House placed 100,000,000 acres at the dispt)sal of this Government lor the ])urpose of -constructing the Canadian Paeilic Railway. 1 knew that every intelligent man in this House, and out of it, regarded that measure as ol vital importance to the country. I knew they felt it was a uuty we owetl to the country to grap})le Vvith this great work, notwithstanding the enormous liabiJity it involved, and notwithstanding the enormous d'.nnands made upon the Treasury of the country. I knew that, obligi^d as we were to some extiuit to act ujion the ])est judgment we could ioim, but to act experimentally, 1 knew it was a gri'at demand to make ujion Parliament lor the Government to ask for p-er- mission to proceed with this great work. Ihit we felt that, inasiiiuch as the construction of this road was recpiired to devrlojie the great North- West, inasmuch as it was absolutely 56 neccssciy to make that country what it could bo made, and to increase the popuhition and resources oi the whole iJoniinion, that we were ^varranted in asking, at all events, that the lands otherwise useless should be utilized for the pur])ose oiits construction. The House can understand we felt lully the responsibility of asking for this enormous amount of iniblic money to be expended ; but feeling as we did that when we had constructed the work from end to end, and were ready to operate it, the still heavier resi)onsibi.ity rested upon the country of providing the means of snccessliilly opr;.tino' that road, for no man could shut out of sight the serious responsibility that the operation of nearly :],000 miles of railway through such a country would entail. But Parliament felt that the con- struction of this road was absolutely necessary to the development of Canada, and they generously gave to the Government the assistance we asked for ; but they did it under the conviction that we intended to apply those lands in such a way as would ultimately secure the people of the older ])rovinces against taxation for the pui'pose of con- structing th's railway The Government, sensible of this gi^nerous feeling on the part of their supporters in this lIous<; iii sustaining us, notv>ithstanding the fears and the alarm that it was sought to create in this House by hon. gentle- men opposite when they found themselves in a position to ciitiei/e the very measure for which they had asked the House to give them the power of carrying through, 1 say the House can understand the ])leasure with which we meet the people of Canada through their representatives to-night, and are enabled to say that, by the means which we were authorized to use for the construction of this work, we are in a position to state not ■ only that the entire construction from end to end, but that the res]ior.sibility of ojierating it hen^after is to be taken off the shoulders ol Canada for the insignilicant consideration of sonu'thing like a cost to the country of a little over $2,('G(',0()0 }ier annum, iiot commencing now, however, but that will be tl;e ultimate cost assuming that v/e haA'e to pay for ever the interest on all the moneys spent and required and what the ISyndicate will obtain under this contract. AA lu'U we are in a position not only to show that, but to show that oui ol the 1 (.0,000,000 acres of land that Tarha- ment placed two year.s ago at our disposal, we have 67 75,000,000 acres loft with which to moot th(^ i$2,000,000 of interest, and that cKponditiire will be diminished, until at no distant day, we will not only have the proud satisfaction of feeeincf Canada assnme an advanced and triumphant position, but that she will be relievc^d from the ex]K'nditure of a sins^le dollar in connection with the construction or oporntiou of this railway. I may say that I have been i^r^atly iiTatiiied at the criticisms that have been bestowed upon th.^ [n-oposi- tion we are submitting to rarliament. Nothing* has q-iven me more confidence in the soundness of our position and the impregnable attitude we occupy in Parliament or out of it, than the criticisms to which this scheme has been subjt'ctcd by the press, as far as I have seen them. First, I may si)eak of the Ottawa Citizen. I find that in the criti«'i^ a of that paper, to which, at all events, we were entitled to look for a fair and dispassionate criticism, the proprietor has evidently handed over his editorial columns not only to a hostile hiind but to a disingenuous writer who was not willing to put the facts fairly before the country, and this strenuthens me in my conviction of the soundness ot the proposition we are submitting to Parliament. If that contract obt;iined objectionable features, to which the attention of I'nrliaiaent might be called, and that were sulRcent to condemn it, where was the necessity of the person who wroVe the criticism in the Citizen mis-stating almost every clause of the contract that he commentcnl upon, from b(>uinning to end. I say nothing has mor^^ ^^^rengthened my conviction in the soundness of this m . are ; Avhether it was the Ottawa Citizen, from which I had hoped better things, or from the Free Press, from which I did not expcci any better treatment, or the Gfobe ncnvspaj^er of Toronto ; and when 1 take up these papers and lind that every - riticism, every serious ground of attack, is based uixm mis-si -i Mnents of what the contract contains, lam coniirmed in kiv opinion that they found tliat contra'-tunirapcachable, and thnt a fair and candid criticism would compel them to give their adhesion to it. When 1 look at those crilici.-ais 1 am mindi^l of the position a gentlt^man would occupy v:ho had made a contract for the construction of a dreaf J-J -s/rr/f, an enormous shij), greater in extent and involving a i>"!c, iter ex- penditure than any other ship that ever was built in llie world. But, tSir, 1 am reminded of what would be tho p.o -^il .on of a man, who, after building a ship, and fini.-^hing it c:>ui- 58 plete in every respect.woald be told by his employers that the ship was all right in design, material and workmanship, but that there was a little twist on the jolly boat which they did not like, and on that account they did not think they would take her. I say, Sir, that when we come down to Parliament with a gn^at measure like this ; when, Sir, we occupy a position in respect to the probable completion of the great work, which twelve months ago the most san- guine man in the country could not hare hoped we would occu})y — these 'hon. gentlemen hesitate. They say, although you have found gentlemen with great resources at their command, to go forward with an enterprise so essential to the progress of Canada ; although that work is to be completed on a purely commercial basis— these gentlemen, turning their backs, as they have been obliged to do, upon their own declarations, again and again recorded — still com]>laiii of the arrangement which happily we have been enabled to place Ijefore Parliament. But for the remarks of hon. gentlemen opposite, which have led us to believe to the contrary, I should have thought that this was a measure for which I could have confidently asked the support, not only of those who usually support the Government, but of lion, gentlemen opposite, who stood committed by their votes, and the strongest possil)le statements of their leaders, to the support of terms for the construction of this work nincli loss favorable than those embodied in the present contract. But, s;)y these hon. gentlemen, we do not like the Company — and remarks are indulged in most insulting to geiitieiiien who compose the Syndicate. jlr. ]\Iackenzie. Who said so ^ Sir Charles Tuppek. The organ of the hon. gentlemen in this citv. Mr. MiCKEJN'ZlE. Do you mean the Citizen? Sir Charles TUPPER. "Well, perhaps the Citizen is now the orjiMU of hon. gentlemen opposite. I know that in the short : paci' of twenty-four hours they wen' able to take the T.'wf.s out of our hands by some means — a human deA'ice I belie\c they called it. But, Sir, I do not feel surprised that hon. gcDtlemen reject with scorn the imputation that the Free Press is their organ or speaks their sentimenly — a journal that attempts to throw obloquy upon gentlemen of 60 k high standing in Canada and in tho United Staltvs and Europe. Hon. gentlemen do not like the Company, but one would suppose that their ideas had undergone a revolution upon that question. The gentlemen who have undertaken this work stand before the people ol" this country to-day in the strongest position that it is possible ibr gentlemen to occupy in relation to a great enterprise such as this. The Canadians engaged in the enterprise are men who are second to none in respect of commercial standinu; and cap- acity, and by their success in carrying out other grc^at railway enterpises, they have afforded us the best possible guarantee for the manner in which they will luliil their engagements with the G-overnnient and the Parliament of Canada I may }»e told that f he owners o^ the St Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba Railway, are membiTs of this Syndicate ; and, t^ir, I am glad to know that th;it is the fact, and for this reason, I say that standinu' ontsid ' of this Association, they were in a position of antagonism to Ca.iada, because they were the owners of a line of railway to the south of our great Nortli-Wc'st, and of large tracts of fertile hind contiguous to that railway. We all l^now that the great barrier to the snccessful developm''nt of \ho Xorth- AVest was that in the absence ofaC^uuidian Pacilic Railway, our immigration was obliged to lilter throui^h th.' territories of the United JStates. The great ellorts wliieh have been made to secure immigration into the Unit'd States, and intercept those who were on their way to the North- West, have not been made by the Governuient of that country, or by the Legislatures ot the States, but by the railway com- panies who have a personal interest in seducing these immigrants into their (»wn territories. AVhy, Sir. we have annexed a large p(n-tion of the State of Minnesota to Canada in this way; and any man with a head on his .shoulders will see at once that a company who have engaucd to build or opi^rate a road (550 miles fnnn Thumhn' Ray b> Xipi-sing, and who are to be the (wners of oiie thousand mile-; of road, from Red River to Ni[)issing, cannot afford to do ae.yihing less than attract, along ihat route and from the railways to the south, all the trade that is possi])le. ibr that alone can make their cntiM-prise siiccessrul. T!u> interest which these gentlemen will have in the Canadian Paeiiic Railway will be tenlbld greater than any interest they ever had in tlie St. Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba line, aud I care not what CO thoir nationality may bo, as the signatorios of that contract Canada posscssos in them the most undoubted evidence tha:^ they >A'ill spare no elfort to secure trallic for the Canadian Pacific l.'j'ilvvay. The hon. gentU^nian seemed to think that this CoTiipany would not bear the scrutiny and investigation which Vv'as desirable. Mr. Mackenzie. Who said so? Sir Charles Tupper. I hope I did not do the leader of the Opposition an injustice, when I thought that my mention of the Company was received, l)y him. in the way in which he usually receives a sentiment with which he does not agree. Mr. lU.AKE. I do not quite understand the hon. gentleman. Sir CuAKLES Tupper. I say that this Company embraces capitalists, both of our own and other countries, w^ho are men of the highest character; men, whose names are the best guarantees that could be oflered the people of Canada, that any ent<'rprise they may undertake will be successful. With regard to the terms of the contract, I do not hesitate to say that no greatin- injury could have been inllicted ou the people of Canada than to have made the conditions of the agreement so onerous that instead of ensuring their successl'al iullilment they would have led to failure. I say that th(^ moment that contract is signed everything that we can do ibr the purpose of obtaining the best terms in our power has bet-n done, always under the impression that we ow»h1 it to Canada to make a contract that was capable of iullilment ; to give those gentlemen a fair contract and ailord them a fair opjiortunity of grappling with this great, this gigantic enterprise, that we were so anxious to transfer from our sliould(»rs to theirs. And 1 would ask this House whether tliis beinj? a contract involving' the ijreat business importance that it does, is one to sit down and cavil over, in the ordinary acceptation of the term, in relation to contracts, and to drive- the most difficult bargain that cordd i»j driven, and perhaps lead to what occurred when we made the contract in 1873, with terms larj»e]v in excess of those that this contract contains ? That was not a contract that was capat)le of fulfilment, because the parties were unable, in the then coitdition of the country, to raise the capital that was necessary. Now, we approach this question in that spirit, 1 Gl an:l I would ask ovory moinbcr of this IIouso if we snoiiM not be uuworliiy of ropivsi^ntiiiu^ tho rarliaiuMit of C'aiiala in tli(! di.scliarul)lic husiiioss, if wo had not '',;lr, in the iiitercwts of Canada, that this arranL^cniont should ho ono that would obtain th'» command of tht> capital that was r(Miuin'd, and that would enable the parties eng-ag-.'d in this great work to make it thoroutjlily sueeessful as 1 trust it will b.'. We havt! reason to know that all that a command of capital can do they have the advanta'^e of ; we have reason to know that all that skill and energy and a knowledge of precisely such work will do, has been secured, in order to make this a successful contract, and 1 wou)d askhou. j^eiitle- men opposite what more is desirable or net.'essary i I have referred to the position that those gentlemen occupy, but I would just a&k lion, gentlemen opposite whether Canada would be likely to havc^ this contract carried out with the success we all desire, expect, and hope for, if we had made the contract with the strongest body of capitalists that could be found in the city of London ? What would you have had V We would have had, the first thing, an iinglish engineer, with extravagant ideas, totally ignorant of the work and the construction of railways through such a country, and we would have had, at no distant day — no matter what their resources miii'ht be — a perfect failure in their hands, and, worse than that, you v/ould have had discredit brought upon the country in consequence of the parties which had purchased th^'ir b.»nds, failing to obtain that interest which they justly expected from their investment. Whether you look at the American, the Cana- dian, or at the English, French or German giMitlemen associated with this enterprise, I believe that Canada has been most ibrtuinite, and the Government has bivn most Ibrtunate, in having this work placed in their hands It is stated that the security of one million dollais for the carry- ing out of the contract is too small. They say ihat a paid up capital of live millions of dollars within two years, and a deposit of one million dollars is too small. My o[)inion of security of this : that provided you get the parties who are most likely to deal successfully with the laath-r, the less security you demand the better. Because, just in proportion as you lock up the resources of the party, the more you decrease his power to carry on the work successfully Mr. Bl.vke. In order to improve the situation, let us strike out the clause about the million dollars. 62 Sir Charles Tuppkr. 01" course, we aro speaking within a cc^rtaiii latitude, and I would ask the hou. gentleman to turn his attention to what was a somewhat similar work constructed on this continent — the Union Paciiic Kailway — and 1 would ask him whether the cn])ital of that company was lar<^er, or whethi-r the security given by them for the construction of the road was larger, than is now obtained with this Company / He may examine into the carrying out of some of those great works, and he will find that the security that the Ciovernment had was confidence that the parlies engaged in the im)ject W(»u)d carry them out to completion. The hon. gentleman will lind that, under this arrangement, we have the best guarantee that these works will be pushed rapidly to com])letilorable condition in which the numbers from the Province of Que- bec found themselves. The hon. gentleman said that " Quebec luid spent eleven millions oi dollars, which she could ill ;iltbrd, for the construction of a provincial railway, principally for the purpose of tapping the Paciiic trade. Quebec had stretched out her arms towards the gi'eat west as far as this cit y, for th(; purpose of securing that trade, and the question is how soon that expenditiire is to be made availabl(>. Her road is paying, as it is, ^vhat Quebec expected it should pay, some fraction of the interest on its construction ; but they also expected that it would bear the great tide of western traffic into her principal cities, and bring prosperity to her people, but unless some through connection is made, these expectations, on the part of Quel)ec, would not be realized ; that if the eastern end was not constructed until the western end was hnished, he hoped they would all be alive to enjoy it." I will not say that there was any sarcasm in these remarks. I will not say that the hon. gentle- man was not shedding tears of sympathy when ho was bemoaning the unhappy fate of Quebec. But where are Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island ; and where is the Province of Ontario to-day ? Why, they stand in a position, to-day, that a year ago we would have 63 been laughed ut if wo had vontured to iircdiol it. IT we lind said a year ago that by this Session we wouhl be enabled to provide a contract by which, in IS91, all the cities of these Provinces would have easy (lomniunicatioii' with the North- West Territories ol" Canada, it would have been considered impossible of attainment. "VVhfd is oF more vital importance to this Province and the cities of the east, Quebec, St. John and Halifax, than that they should hav«' ready access to the North- West. The fact is that that i-reat country, wnth its millions of fertile acres that yield abundant returns to the industry of the agriculturist, must, ior years to come, during the development of th()S(» vast territories, depend upon the older Provinces tor its manufactures. Therefore it is of vital importance to every section of Canada, and to no portion more than the North-West. that there should be eRsy, rapid and cheap communication establislicd at an early day. jVow, Sir, I will draw the attiMition of tlie ILaise for a moment to what will l)e accomplished. The road is to be commenced on the lirst of July next at Callendar Station, near Lake Nipissing, and, under this contract, is to l)e proceeded with pari passu, wi such an annual rate of pro- gress as will secure through connection with the Canadian. Pacific Kailway l)y 1891. Now, w i h regard t*» the distance, everybody knows that the construction of this line will Siiorten the distance; between all <>ar great cities and Winnipeg, the present emporium of tJie Norlh-West, by some 500 miles. l>ut, assuming that we could go })y the Sault Ste. Marie,. in the absence of any line at the north of Lake Superior, the distance, by the Sault andDuluth. would be, from Nipissing to Sault St*^ Marie. 294 miles, from Sault Ste. Marie to Duliith 410 miles, and from Duluth rid Emer- son to Winnipeg 4G4 miles, making the total distance from Callendar Station to Winnipeg 1,1(J8 miles. That was the shortest route which, twelve months ago, the Government were able to hold out any expectation of obtaining. Now, ^ve propose to secure the construction of a through line, to be commenced on the ilrst of July next, which will shorten that distance by 111 miles. Mr. Blake. That is 1,057 miles from Winnipeg to South- East Bay. Sir Charles Tupper, It is 1,00G miles from Nipissing, along Thunder Pay to Winnipeg, if you take the lake, 64 or, 1,0 >7 miles by rail ; the distance from Callendar Station to Unkopi'ig', the station where the line will strike the Thunder liay Branch, being C8() miles, and that from Linkopiug to Winnipeg being ^71 miles. rSo that the House will isee we have the shortest pojisible line by which to reach AVinnipeg. Jt will also see that the distance from Montreal to Callendar t^tation is o^A miles, while the distances from Toronto, by the Gravenhurst line, is 2:iG miji's, or I'lb miles less than that from Montreal. I may now^ advert for a moment to some of the o])jections which have ])een iirg«!d against thi.'; proposition. I am told that the standard is too low , that the si ndard of the Union Tacific liaiUvav' is a very unlavoral)ie standard, and that we ought lo have selected something higher. "Well, it is very well, after having obtained the opportunity of making a contract, to make severe stipulations ; but when I have stated to the House the terms under which these g; 'tlemen have undertaken lo construct this road, 1 think you w ill au"<'e with me that they were entitk'd to as favor- able consideration as we could give them. I shotild like lo knov.' what position the (lovernment ol Canada -would have been in, who, alter having oifered $'<},{i')0,000, in 1873, to tlie company of which Sir Hugh AIia?i was the president, sliouli ask the gentlemen who were und^ rLaking to do the saiiii? work fo!' ij>78,000,<)00 to make th(i terms tao?e ouiTon:^ than tho. of the previous contract. If any liOii. L- 'ullenian will turn to the contract v.ith the company of wf.'.ch Sir Hugh Alfui w:.s pr. sident, they \. ill iind that it j)'.ovided that the standard of coustrj^lion und equip- ment ol the Canadian r.icilic Kailw-y should be th«^ Union Paciiic Ivailway. and, therefore, we have gone us lar as any member of this House or aiiy fair-minded mmi will say A\e ought to go, with reference' to the standard. Bat what is this st;;r.dard .'' Why, there an half-a-df\/:en li^diju- roads in the Unit.'d States to-day of which the standard is more ob]v;f-tionable in grades and curves than that oi the Uni-^u PaciKc Railway. Therefore, I tliii:': tlnre is not mtich gri/und lor cavil in that matter. AVhen the Union raciiic Kdlwav vvas built, the Grovoniment, w ho ga\ e a much greater amount of aid to it than we are givinu' to tliis road, agreed that the standard of the ]]aitimore ana Ohio Kailway should be put in the contract as the standard of the Union raciiic, a:id the Pdtiii.^re ; ud Ohio liailway, as tio every oiio knows, is a road thai is doing' an onormons trafTic and is rogardrd as a iirsl-class roid. Th^' rortlaiid and Ogdcnsbiirg- Railway and hall-i-do/iMi other AnitM-ioan lilies, havo also a standard that cannol coiripaiv with iIk.' standard wt' havo selected. I need not d 'tain the IIolisc, thereibre, by tryinjjf to show that it wonld have been ntterly uureasonablt> I'or the Government of (.^inada to exact i'loia these gentlemen, ulio were agreeing to constiucl tliis road at so much less terms than were agreed in the A.lhin contract, a hiuher standard than we have done. Ijul we have a better guarantee than could be inserted in ihe contract, of the high standard of the road, and that is thai thest' gentlemen are not constructing thi> roe.d i'or the Government ol' Canada to work, but tliey are coiisluictinn it. as their own i)ropeity, and when it is constructed thev haw to i'urnish the means of maintaining and op. Mat inn- ilie road, and every disadvantage of a poor coiistruciiou would fall upon them and n«)t upon us. And, fSir, what would have bi'cn my position in deman. ••;S0,0()O,0i-'0, or an exee.ss of the whide amount they were o])taininu' l)oth in money and land. (H)m[)Uting the land at a dollar an acre:' 1 thiid-:, Iherei'uie, ^ir, that I neett not detain the House ])y d'uling with the (|U">ti()n of the standard of the road. Nor, Sir, will I d« tain the House very long upon the other point that has ])een raised, and that is tlx- mode upon whicli the money is bi-ing divided, I have .shown the cost ol the Pembina Ihanch ai the lowest rate at which we can now put it, without all those buildings necessary, and which these g>ntlemen will have to construct at their own cost. If hon. gentlemen have paid any attiMition to the dc])lorable description thai the First Minister u'ave us. a veai' ago, as to tl»e diliieiiltie , they wotild have to surmount between Ked Kiverandilu* loot of th(' Kocky Mountains, 1 think they will come to tin' conclusion that the amount is not extravagant. 1 call the attention of the House to this fact. The Cloveinment want that road pushed through from Red River to th" fjol of the 5 6« Eoeky "Monntiiins as fast as it can bt? done I have the authority of the leading gentlemen connected with the Syndicate to state in public tlut they int(Mid the road to be complet*^ at the foot of the Rocky Monntains at the end of thn^e years from the present time If it be thought a gigantic work to build .jOO miles of railway ))y this power- ful Syndicate in a year, I m:iy tell hon. gentlfmcn for their information, that within the last ymir a few of these gentlemen <'.>nii)leied between 200 and .lOO miles of railway thi'mselves ihrut all that will involv(» a present outlay of a very large sum of money by these irentJemen. The only hope they can have of having any means of .sustaining the railway, if it is constructed, is by getting ;i population as rapidly as possible into th(> fertih^ vnlleys of the North-\Vest, and thus furnish the traffic v^hivh alonecan support the operation of this railway. 1 am told that another very objectional>le feature is the exemption of the lands from taxation. 1 have no hesitation in saying J would have been glad ir that was not in the contract If it were only to meet the strong jn-ejudice that exist^ in this country on that ques- tion, 1 should have been glad if it were not in the contract ; but then' were two things we had to consider. One was to make the best bargain we could for Canada, and the other was not to impose terms that, without being of any material advantage to the country, would ))e likely to lead to disaster in the money markets of the world when the })rosi)ectus was placed on those markets. Every one will understand that the position in respect to the taxation is not (hanged in the slightest degree from that in which we were construct- ing this road as a Government work : when my hon. friend was constructing it by direct Government aiivncy, no taxa- tion could have been levied on these lands until they wei'M utilized, until they were occupied. No province, munici- pality or corporation ol any kind existing, or that could be created hereafter could impose the slightest tax on those lands until they were sold or occupied, and when they are sold or (;3 occupied now, that momoiif thoy a:a liable to laxation. 1 will not .stop to discuss the queslioii of the road itsell' Ix-iug- exeiiii)! from taxation bcciuise hon. g-entL^men have only to turn to the huvs of the United States, and in refenMiee to the construction of thos(» great lines of railway anywliens to find that the policy of the Government of the United States has always h'en that 1 hose lines of railway, the road-way, the road itselT. the stations, everything- enil)raced in the term railway, was <'xempt from taxation. One of thejudg-es of the (.(lUils of the United States declared that as these great lines of road were national works, were public ease- ments, that as they were for the benefit and advancement of the v>hole country, they should not be subject to any taxation. Side or municipal. We have, therefor(\ only followed tlie practice that has prevailed in the United States and that which hon. gentlemen opposite will feel was incumbent upon us. What was our position 'i AVe were asking- tliese gentlemen to come forward and tak(^ a position from which we shrank. I do not liesitat(^ to say that great and important as t'le enterprise was, the Government felt it was one of enormou.s magnitude and trembled almost when they regarded the great cost ot construction and the cost of maiiitemincc and operation of the road when constructed. And I ask when we wen* shifting from our shoulders to the shoulders of a private company all the responsibility, I ask this House in candour to tell me whether they do not think that, as far as we could we ouglit to have put these gentle- men in as tavoral)le a position lor the constru* tion of the road as we occupied ourselves. That is all we have done; and as I have said before, the moment the lands luv utilized they ])ecome liable to taxation. I have been told that the lands of the Canada Gompiiny being free from taxation it Avere found that they were attended VN'ith a good deal that was objectionable. Mr. Mackenzie. They were not free from taxation. Mr. Blake, They were only ordinary larg<' bmdliolders. Sir CiiAULEs Tiu^PEii. Oh, it was owned in large blocks. Then tlie case is not half as bad. Mr. Blake. No: this is much worse. Sir CliArtLES Tuppek. I supposed it was because they were free Irom taxation. Wcdb we have taken care thev o C t< 60 d. .^' ; zed Ihe it hill M'S. L-ks. hoy Ihi'V shall not own thorn in bifK-ks. AVo h;iv<' mot tho difRculty and covered it. But, as I said hctbro, those gontlomen must sell their lands. It is impossible to sustain tho road without bring'ing- a population into thceountrv as rnpidly as possible. It is said this is a gigantit; monop<)lj\ \ou not only Tree the lands I'rom taxation until occupiod but you creat(^ a monopoly. If we have one strong jioint in our case, it is this, that under the terms ofth*' Allan contrait of 1873, 54,000,000 acres of land W(M-o locked up, if you call it locked up, by being placed in tho hands of a company. Under this contract 25,000,000 acres of land only are to be ro.s(M-vod. Under the Allan contract of 187o, and tho terms of the Canadian Pacific Railway Act of 1874, tho.se jiarties were entitled to have their land in large blocks of 20 miles square, and under this contract the GovernnKMit have possession of every alternatt^ mile over the whole section and along the whole line of railroad. Can there bo any monopoly .'' Why, under the terms of the Allan contract the (lovtn'nment was bound, as the Government of the United States was bound in relation to tho Northern racific Kail way, to abstain from .sell- ing an acre under i$2.50. Under this contract, however, we are free to give away every acre that nnnain.s in our possossirybody or every company building a railroad. All that such persons require to do, is to organize a company, under the general law, register themselves, and go and build a railroad where- ever thwy like, with such privileges in their favour. Mr. Mackenzie. Do the same thing in yourXorth-TWst. Sir Charlks Tupper. The hon. gentleman will see, that, as to the last objection that can be made to our policy, he has anticipated me, because^ 1 intended giving him credit for the liberal spirit with which he dealt with the branch lines — I mean by the Bill submitted, containing the policy of the late Government, upon which, ot" course, the Oi)p()sition will not go back. In the State of Minnesota —and everywhere else across the line — branch lines can be built by iiny per- sons whenever they desire. We have merely given to this Company a power, any and every person can enjoy in the United States. The hon. member for Lumbton is the last source from which 1 should have expected opposition to this policy. Mr. Mackenzie. "What policy? Sir Charles Tuppeu. The policy of allowing the Syndi- cate the privilege of constructing branch lines in connection with the road. Mr. Mackenzie. You prohibit everybody else. Sir Charles Tupper. There is no such i>rohi])itiou. This remark is only an evidence t)t'the diiliculty, tlie dilemma in which hon. gentlemen opposite Jind themselves in. Becausi^ they can lind no legitimate objections to this policy, they must manufacture them. Theie is no sucti provision in the Bill — uoim line giving a monopoly to those gentlemen, 72 iuul this rarliamcnt has power to-day and will have jMnvtM- next year, al'tor they have ratifiiHl this policy, lo cinpowov aiiv persons whatever to ccnslruct lines in any ])aTl oi' the NoVtli-\Vest. AVhat did the Uill snl)iai(l(>d by" the Minister of the Interior for the late Government provide with regard to the eonstruction of railroads in the North-West —a hill which embodied the wisdom of the Government of which he was a member :* It first provides that any person may e(mstruot a railway in the North-West wherever they choose. They may organize under provisions similar to those under which parties in the United Slates may constrnct branch lines. It went further. We hav(^ not given these gentle- men a dollar with which to construct brandies. We propose to ffive them the riffht of way for branch lines free, and shall only be too glad to do so if they run branches from one end of the country to the other. We felt it was in i\n\ interest of tJie country to give them every facility possible for the strengthening of the trunk line and the opi'iiing of such volumes of traflRc over it as are indispensable to the pro- sper'ty of the country, and as must increase the value of our land ; beyond any other inlluence. Not one dollar can they spend in the construction of branches that will not pour large sums into the treasury of Canada, by increasing the value of its lands in their neighborhood. But the Bill of the late Government did not leave the cost of their construction on the Company. The Government generously came to their aid. Every))ody could go on and build branches and come with his little bill to the Government for payment. What does the Act say ? " 'J'lie (iovcinor ill Coiimal may rosorvo every alt<>rnato seetion of un- j-'r-intcinaiids to tln' extent of ten seetioiis jji!!- mile, live on each side, exelu-^ive of tlio seelions wliicli, under tlie Domin'ou Lands Act, may have tieen leserved as school sections or allotted to tl.. iludson J^ay Company' for the j)ur|io.ses of this Act."' That was as bonus to these gentlemen for construction of this branch line. " Or, should the fiovernor in Council deem it expedient, instead of con- veying lands to the Comjiany, the Company may ho i)aid the moneys received (lom the sale of lands on the line of and within six miles of such laihv-iy, fiom time to time, until the Company shall have recoived a sum not exceeding ten thou.sand dollars per mile." Giving a claim to every man who built a mile of it, to come to the treasury of Canada, and demand $10,000, and yet, with this strong declaration uttered on the iloor of the Ji ritelAMtt 78 to [d llonso iind i)lac.'(l on I ho puMic voeords of I ho counlry, I hoy vtMilure to chiilltMiyo tho souiidnosfs of tho ju(lt>ni(Mit of tho (rovcrmiioiit of Canada to ponnit partios, without one doi-.av's aid or ono aero of hind to construct branch linos for tho ojx'niug np and dovolopmont of tho North- Wost. W(dl, Sir, it is said that a groat onormity has boon coniniil tod by tho pr»)hibition to construct linos running in any other diroctioii than a certain ono, south-wost and west by south- west. Well, Sir, I am a litth> surprised to hear any such objection, and I shall listen with groat interest to the hon. gentlemon on the other sidi' of tho House if they have any objeotion of that kind to make. A year ago, Sir, a com- pany with jM-rhaps as strong (hums to consideration as it would bo possible for any company to have on the Parlia- ment of Canada, came to us for permission to construct a railway. They asked for no money, they asked no aid ; they only asked for permission to construct a railway of a certain kind, why did we refuse it ? Why, Sir, we were very sorry to refuse it, but, the Government having taken the subject into careful consideration, decided that, inas- much as C^^nada was dealing with tho construction of the great Canadian Pacific Ivailway, and inasmuch as tho only hope of maintaining this road, and of t)porating it after it was buili, was to retain the traffic of the Canadian North- West on tho trunk lino, wo came to the conclusion that it was not in the interests of the country, however greatly any section might demand or need it, to construct a lino which would cany traffic of the North-West out of our country and leave our trunk line, the Canadian Pacific, which had cost the country such a groat sum of money, donudcd M' the traffic iiccfssary to sustain it. WoH. Sir, that policy was announced and dolib;'ratoly adopted by tho (rovcrnmont, and it was my duty, as the Minister of Ivailways, to sul)mit it to the small ParliamiMit upstairs, the I'lailway Committee. That C*ir judgment to boar in relation to the (juostions. I think that it contains 100 members. Sir LEONARD TiLLEY. Niuoty-five. Sir Charles Tupper. The number is 95, I say that is a small parliament, and when I submitted the deliberate judgment of the Government on this jioint, to refuse, so far 74 as we were able, to allow that charter to pass, the policy of the Government was adopted by the Committee without a single dissentient voice. Mr. Mackenzie. I dissented for one. W Sir Charles Tupper The hon. gentleman says he dissented, then he was greatly miNunderstood. I heard no dissent, but more than that a deputation who came down from Emerson to seek assistance, told me, a shoil time ago, that they had an interview with the hon. gentleman, and that they could not get any more satisfaction from him than they could obtain from the Government, Mr. Mackenzie. I have no power to give assistance. Sir Charles Tupper. Then, Sir, all that I can say is, that the hon. gentleman failed in the discharge of the duty of his high position, as one of the leading members of this Parliament, if he, on an occasion when the Government policy on a great national question was sul)mitted before the Uaihvay Committee, retains his opinion to himst^lf, and does not give that Committee the beneht < his judgment and experience. Mr. Mackenzie. I firmly expressed my dissent. Sir Charles Tupi»er. Sir, the hon. gentleman does not generally dissent in such a mild way as to prevent me from remembering it ; and all I can say is, that if he dissented he did it so i;ently that it had passed entirely from my recollection, and I hold that this Government, in devolving the duty of constructing the Canadian racilic liailway on the shoulders of thi> Syndicate, could not reasonably say, the rights which the Government of Canada maintained and publicly declared they had main- tained in the interests of Canada, and in protection of the traffic of the Canadian Pacific Railway, they shall be with- held from you, and now that the possibility of maintaining that tralhc is placed upon your shoulders we do not care where the traffic goes. I say that the interest which we have to-day, as Canadians, in that railway in their jiossession is the same national interest, to bring every pound of the traffic of the North-West which we can bring down through the heart of Canada, and down to the sea board in our own country, — as I trust in no distant day will be the case. Well, Sir, the hon. member brought up the question of rates, \ ■f 76 LIU- Ithe ith- liiig ;are we don Ithe igh ^wu lase. ites, \ I the other day, in the speech which he delivered to the House on thc! Address. I could then quite und^-rstiuid that the hon. genth^man was about to place our anchor to windward, and when the hon. gentleman drugged in the (juostion of rates on railways into the discussion the other day, I quite, understood that there was a deliberate design in it— to forestall the pu])lic mind in relation to this niait»'r. Every person knows the great complaints that havt- ]>i'en made, owing to the disproportionate rates w hich have lu'en adopted on railways in the United States running through the prairies. But, Sir, what is our position with relation to the matter. "VVhy, Sir, we have taken power by this contract, which, under the Consolidated Eailw ay Act on thc Statute- book, we do not possess. So far from having yielded any- thing with relation to rates, the Governor in Council retains power to levy these rates. Not a rate can be collected, not a cent can be collected by that Company lor juiything on their road, until the Government which is responsible to this House, whoever they may be, have given their sanction to what they believe to be just, and in the interest of the country. And, Sir, havini;' retained the power, what more did we do ? Why, Sir, we ascertained that, accordinu' to the law, Parliament itself had not the power, alter the rate was fixed, to reduce it, unless it could be shewn that the C'ouipany were getting fifteen per cent, on the capital. We, in this contract, have changed that, and have deprived the Company of the power, which, under the Consolidated Ivailway Act, they and every other railway in the ( ouiitry enjoyed, and stipulated a lower rate of profit as the point at w hich they may be asked to lower their rates. I think, under tiiese cir- cumstances that the hon. gentleman's long disicussion on a question that was certainly not belbre the House wa.-i hardly called for. Mr Anoltn. Is the profit to be taken upon the capital of the Company or upon the whole money ex- pended upon the construction of the road, because there is a great difference ? Sir Charles Tupper. The hon. gentleman will be greatly relieved to find that it is not so bad as he had hoped. It is upon the caj)ital they have expended thems«'lves. Mr. Blake. Under the terms of the contract, for there is a doubt about it ? 76 Sir Chatjlf.s TrriTR. That is a qiiostion ol' luw, ui)on which I will (h'lrr to the lion. yciilK'niiin. Wo has the ('((iilruft Ix'Ton' hiiii, ami whatever want ol' conrKlciu'o I may havo in liis polilical sentiments, I have great ronli(l<'ne(» in his loual ability. I will not re(juiro to say anything' more about that. I am told that .somo gi'ntlemen aro afraid that dilliculty will he caused by the <'lause of the contract which recjiiires the (lovernment to hold in certain contingencies, which may or may not arise, twenty-live millions of dollars at four per cent, interest. Happo.se wo had said to the late Minister of l^^inance a year ago that we expected in twelve months to be in a condition in which, instead of paying five per cent., as we are paying now, we should be able to sell b(mds at four per cent, interest without any discount or commission. Suppose we had ventured to tell the hon. gentlemen that we expi^cted in twelve months, to be in the comlition of being able to obtain all the money that Canada requin'd Ibr its development, and to redeem the bonds issued at five and six per cent, as fast as they became due at four per cent, without a farthing being paid for C()mmissi(in, they would have laughed at us. But it is a fact staring them in the face, and when we (Mitered into the contract we found that we occupied a position that was likely to furnish us with all the money we wanted. The able Finance Minister, my hon. colleague, told us that he could handle that twenty-live millions of money in such a way as to be eminently advantageous to the interests of Canada, if he is called upon to hold it, and it was only after learning that that we agreed to take it upon these terms. I think therefore I need hardly detain the House upon that subject. \V' ith reference to the telegraph I am told that there is an objection on that point, but surely no person would have expected the Government of Canada to nuike a contract with a company who were bound to construct in ten years a road from the lied liiver to Kamloops, and a road from Nii)issing to Thunder Bay, and operate some 3,000 miles of road, without the power to erect and operate a telegraph. Such a thing would, I think, be unheard of, and when I tell the House that instead of having a monopoly the Government of Canada, at this moment, retains the Canadian Pacilic Teh^graph in their own hands, and that these i)arties have not acquired a dollar's worth of rights in the telegraph which has been contracted for, at a sum a 77 a (' littli' ill t'xcess ol' (HK^ million (»l dolLirs ; wh-ii I t^'Il Ihe HousL' that wo ivtaiii the owiitM-.ship ol" oui own jnii' of tolci^r.inli, it will sc.' that uiili'ss tiTiiis an- niailt' lor thi' traiisaflioii ol" ncucral hiisiin'ss, and lor tnkinu' over our lines upon tiM'ms in thf int'rcst ol* Caninla, wf nn' in a position to <'avry out iuul ronii)l(>lt' our own lin-' and mako it a very sharp conip.'lition indct'tl, N"o\v, Sir, lam uhid to say tli;il I am able to hrin;^ my n-marks to a conclusion, hut before doini^' so, I will ask the House to indul^-e me lor a moment whilst 1 read an extract from tln' Winiiipcj^- corros- pondenci' ol'the Toronto G'lnhc ol" November l!5lh : "Fo UHii'li liiiM liecii suit I nil' I written ahont tlin si/.o tiixl l\'i'tility ol' tliu Nortli-Wi'st tliiit it in s<'iiri'i'Iy lu'cossaiy to r(']»(!;it any of it licnj. Prol'. Maco'.m'."! I'coMit oxploi'iitiniis fully tli.> fact tlmt tinTf arc jil)Oiit L'''(>,<""*-""" ef acres <'iiilirai-ci| aitlun MaiiiioWa uMtj tlio -Noitli-Wcst Territiirics, A mere fractinii of this is as yi't settled, so thai thero aro Htill liouK's in tho North West I'of niillinus of jMople. I'or two hiuitlrol miles \ve,«t moHt of tho jrond laml has Ix-en taken u\>, lait t)eyonil that point tliei'c is any (|uantity of the ricln^-t land, iniicli nl it. not cvt-n siuveyed. The (luality of the soil ihrou>.'h()Ul these tciritoi'ies is ainio-t iniifonuly good, la many plaei-s it is sin|ta.st.e 1. In tho lied Kiver \alley, near Vvinni]K'.', farms have lieeii iM'oiiiied I'n' lifty yeaiw, without the' aid of manure. I'^n'tlier west tho soil is somewhat li'/Iiter, hot, in the opinion of many, liotler ailaptc"! for general farmin:,' iinrposus. There is .i consider- able (iiianlity of waste land, if we take it in the a^'groyatc!, hut compara- tively th<' percentage is not large, and ninoh of what is now wa.-te land will ix^ reclaimed l>y drainage before tlio country i-* a generation older.'' Now, Sir, 1 draw attentim to that lor tie' purpose ol' showing' the hon. ii,'entlemen opixjsite how small a p(»rtion ofthe.se fertile lands in tlu^ great North-West is absorbed by the twenty-live millions of acres which under this contract we j?i\ e to the Syndi<'ate. I draw the attention of u'cntlemeu opposite to this, becau.se it was one of the subjects of diticussion a year an'o. I ventured to state from the best authority, for we had expended a lariic amount of money for surveys, «S:c.. and a number of able mim had investii;:ated this subject of th(» laiulsof the North-Weit, that 150 millions of 51. res of uood land lay lietween the west of Manito])a and the Rocky Mountains, between the 4(Hh and 57th parallels of the north latitude, and hon. members t)pposite doubted it. Now we lind thtit Professor Maeoun, who is one of the mo t able explorers and one ol the best (j^ualified men to form a judgment upon the matter, and who has spent the last season in going over the country, found that that great Missouri section of barren country which was supposed to extend into Canada in the North-West, w^as iu 78 !v groat m(»asarc "ainal)lo and i'crtilo land. lie Ibund that the idea that it Ava • a dosert was an e itire delusion, and that instead of that a great portion of these lands, thirty- millions v.f acres, which were supposed io})e unlit lor settle- ment ap' largely lit for settlement, and they are inelud»>d in Ihe fontraet in the lands ■ fairly lit lor settlement." Under these circumstan«es the House will see that this land has btMMi very mueh under-estimated. Before I eonclud*', there is another point th;it T want torel'erto. It is charged ngainst the tU)Veruiiient, and it is the last charge in the world that I hope any person will ever be able to sustaih nuainst them — it is a charge of not beinu' true to the Xational lV)licy, If th«^ Govermncnt of Canadi-,. with the evidence of the ])ast twoyeiirs before them, were to be faithless to the National Policy, tliey would deserve to be driven from i)ower l)v the execration of every true-hi^arted Canadian. 1 r^ay this is about the l:ist charge that should have been ma(i(\ but I am told tlnn' have given under the coiitiact ris-hlsand privileges ■\vhicli are Intal to the National Policy. TIumv is liotliing in the law, noiiiing in the Htatuti'-book th; t enables one cent of duty to be collected for any thing that has been used Ibi- the purpose of constructing the .Canadian Pastiniated W(mld pay thcmr for the work they performed and give them a profit. But every locomotive, every ca. Icr the railway that wi' imported for ourselves, as Vv'G hav«' dune, couKl not ])y any law that is on the {Statute- book )>e charged with duty. tSo that there is no ground of coi.rplaint ui>on thai point. liut, Sir, that is not the (Contract. The contract jn-ovides oiily lor the admission free of duty of all steel rails, iish-plates and otht>r fastenings, spikes, bolts, Avire, timber and all materials for bridges to 1)0 used in the origiiuxl construction ol the. railways and telegraph line in connection therewith. Now, Sir, what is the duly collected on now ^ Steel rails are free under the law. Mr. Mackenzie. For how long i Sir Charles Tuppek. So long as the steel rails are not manufactured in this country, for the purpose oi 79 ts. (y oi supplyini^ ovir own country. Tho GovornmtMit I'dt that thi' construction of railways was so vitally important to the development of Canada, that they made an exception of steel rails, sayini^ that while steel rails were not manu- laetured in this country they should ])e admitted I'ree. Therelore. this limits it to the l)olts, nuts, \"ire. timher and material I'or !)ridu'es. AVell, Sir, W(^ carel'uljy (•oiisidered that hy admittinj^ iron for bridcres IVee of duty, we would probably have the bridL>vs constructed ol' iron iirstead oi* wood. llutMs there a memlx'r ot'ijiis House who jails to see that if we had not made such a provision, we only had to import these articles to make them free :* I may say thai under this contract the position oi' industries o*" Canada and of the National Policy is better than bef(»re. The Clovernment inteiulcd in this mattei', as in everythinu' else, to be true to that uTeiit National I'olicy which lifted Canada out of t!ie condiiiied. that policy which has increased the credit of our countrv by chani'inii" dejicits into hamlsonu' surphiscs. that policy which has vitalized the industries of Canada, .set money into circulation, commercial enterprises in operation and created industries from one end of Canada to the other, to an extent that the most saui'-uine advocate of the National Policy did not venture to anticipate. We would be faithless to the country aiul to the position we occupy, if we did not, in everythinur to which we put our hands, maintain this lK)licy in its intetiTity that (^niada may continue to prosper and llourish as at i)resent. In i-cuard to that (juesiion [ may say that the Minister of Finance will be prepared to submit a measure to deal >vith thi.s very point, by which th*« manulacture of everythinp^ that can be constructed in Caiuida for the purposi-s oi the C:inada Pacilic Uailway will be provided for in our own country. Now. -ir, 1 am ulad that 1 shall not be conii)ellever there were a measure presented lor the eonsideratiou ol' this Jlouse, Worthy and likely to receive its hearty adoption, it is llie measup' 1 have the honor ol" suhnulling for its consideration. I have the KatislactiiOi oi* knowinu" that tlp.oug'hout this inlellinvjit country every man breathed more freely \\ hen he jeanu'd that the <;Teat, enormous, underlakinu' of construeliag- and operatinu' the railway was t(» be lil'ted ironi the shoulders of the CJo\ ( rnment. and the; liabililvthe country \\ eie brought within, not over the limit which ill its present linancial condition it is prepared lo meet ; within sueh limits that the jn-oceeds from the sale ol the land to bi' uranted by rarlianient for the construction of the line, \vouhl wipe out all liabilities at no distant day. Ijut this is the slightest consideration in reference to this (pies- tion. I* is a fact that under the proposals now submitted for the Parliament lo consider, tliis country is going to secure the construction and operation of the gigantic work which is to give m-w life and vitality to every section of this Dominion. No greater n«si)onsibility rests ujjon any body of men in this Dominion, than rests upon the Government of Canada, placed as it is in a position to deal with the enormous work ol the development of such a (country as Providence has given us ; and i say w«' should be traitors to ourselves and to our children if we should hesitate to secure on terms such as we have the pleasure of submitting to Parliament the construction of this work, which is u'oing to h (h w. ac4 tit pr, to I ^\ ) 81 lis , to UVi' to .• to and I 1)1' lus^ \\ico tho )Ui'S oivi» iioso I' had elves xtsiti' I'roui \ a party point, of view — the lowest point ol" view — i ivA that these gentlemen, by iullowing the course they piopose. are promoting the mteresi «•: tlie party now in i)u\vc'r, ju;.! as they jiromoted our inti rt'sts when they placed themselves in aniagonisni lo tlif iSaiional i'olicy, which the great ma> s oi" tht; i)eople desired. But 1 say i am disai)pointed at their course. 1 regret it, notwithstanding that it conduces to the .Mit.'iTsIs ol' <)U'' own parly, (hi i);ist (x ca>ions 1 iutule till! most eanifsj aj)i)eal iii my power to those gentlemen to sink on one ure.it national ipiestion parli/aii leelinu's, and l<» enable both sides ol' this House and i>:)ih i»ariit's ol' liiis countrv lo unite m a «»Teat measure that did not reipiire to be diagu'ed down into the arena ()i parly, and vvhieh vvonld be pr()nK)ietl, and larg«dy promui d b\ a eombinaiion ot Ijoth oi the great jtarlies in ihiscounir\. The Jiun. gentlemen refused to respond to llinl aj)peal. and therelore 1 will no! wasti' time on the present oeeasion by i)oinling out to thiJii how desirable itis now ; but 1 did hop'- when we abandoned this railway as a" tJovernmeut worK, and when it beeume acoinmereial uiider- titl' '.'4" it would be otherwisi', and one ot the reasons — one o;\; J great neeessltle^ lor changinu our base, one of the great necessities to pl;H>' this work on a commercial footing at the earliest opporiunny was thai we becanu' aware, lioni the events of the last tv\(» rv'sMoiis. that while w»' d«'alt wiih it as a (b^veinment railway it was to be dragged down from Its high position to the ;irena ol p:i,rtiza, politics. In oriUn- to obstruct the Uovt'rnmenl. in order to prevent our earrying out the policy as we were c;ii lying it out, these livatlemeii were driven to asstime ih" un)>atriotic attitude of • leerying the credit and capabilities of our country and danijejing the prospects ol liiis gieut work. I am glad that we iiave triumphed over stich opposii ion. and 'hat despite that obstruction we have surmounted the great diifictdty — thai ilesjiite ali the obstruction they could throw in our way- the time has ccmie when oniighlened capitalists, best acc]Uain;ed with the resources of Canada, are prepared to throw themselves into the construction of this great railway. 1 say, 1 was in hopes .low that we have abandoned it as a Government work aiid it is placed on a commercial founda- tion, that thuse gentlemen could, vithoiu loss to party prestige, tmite with tis on this great question and on giving to thib Syudicate, whuuiy uhar^^ed with thi« importi*Jit aud 6 R9 oinM'Oiis niu1ort:ikiiiu', that lair. haiuNoiiic tiul uonorous NUppori >'..•! iiicii t'lii^'an'i'd in a ;i'i't>ai ]ia.i(:ii.I woi'k in any <'()unlry jut rntitliMl lo v-t. ivc ;il iln- IumkIn, not omIv oliiic lovci'uiU'.'ai oi' iIk" coiiiii ry, l)Ui ol rvfi'y p!'li'ioii>' nu'iiiln'i" ol' I'ailiaiui'iil. r• ila s'r ]> •ll ( li: X) ii:ii.l. hut I lu)pi' U])(Mi luiuv,' It'll. '(lion. ;it i:u la)ir ,l,.y. \\liiu ivMilts ol this jMca.siirc w liicli w* I ill' .•(' now NiiDir.iiliiiL;' i'»r . lu ai>pruval ol' I'arliaint'iil, ani ; t:il cc^iiiiilt nt ly expect will ohtaiii llic suucllou ol iliis iiou i-. will be siuh as lo coiiijx'l (ht'x* n'cii ith'iii (Ml, ojx'iijy aiitl (Mu ii iiii'-rcMs o. tin couiitrv, uiid that it has been titled \\ itli a sii eecss ».'Xceet iii<»' our ni(»st saiiuuiiic e-vpectalioiis. [ ChIi oiijv sav. Ill conclusion, alter some live-iind-l wenty years ol' publi ■ lil''. I shall i'eel it the urealest souiTc ol' phasurc il;al lie (iuai'i"|- ol' a ci»ntury has all'orded me, a.s 1 am satislitd (liat my riyhl hon. I'riend Ix'side me will led, that it crow lis the >ucees.> ol' l)ublic lilc, thai while rreiuitr oi l his coimlry lii> (loverii- j inent were able to carry Lhroui:-ii I'arliaui'nt a measure ol' I such inestimable value lo the prouiicss oi Canada : so 1 cuii {"% I'eid, ir I have no other becjuest to leii\'e to my children alter mc, tile proudest legacy 1 would desire t(» Iea\e is l he record that 1 w as able to lake an iicti\'c iiart iii l he promolioii ol' liiis iircal measure by which. I believe. Canada w ill re, eive an imi)etus that will make it a great and powerlul country at 110 diblaut date. I ■P>"P MMMItWWHMaMNihMftte'aMHwrMM »^— . ■ .^ * ;^ iw :»'■'■'#■' -T«..* . MKac- »-"-'r.rts -":-«(B!aT-Tp,t..mi" ;».,-iT :-ap!si