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BAPTISM J^2>rjD

1^.

THE BOOK OF MORMON,

BET W EEN

REV. W. H. ^OOPER, Methodist,

«. \ „ ,. OF TILBURY CENTRE. ONT.

ELDER^ A. LEVJ^I^TON, tatter Day Saint.

OFZONE, ONT-

Held in Tilbury Centre, Orit., Conimencingr April 18, 1894, and Continuing
, for Eig-ht CoWcutive Ey(ening"s.

■^:.

: SfenographiCally reparted by Miss cWa Monro of Tilbury Centre of the
News Office, and revised by the respective disputants. -* *^

"--K

TILBUBY CENtRE.

^€1

PRINTED AT THE NEWS BOOK AND JOB PRINTING OFFICE.

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UNITPD CS'/f ■■■■:'■

arc: conditions of debate.

ELDER A. LKVERTON of th« U. C, of J, C. of r.fttt:<r Day SaliitH, havUxjf
by requeBtofHoinu porsona at Tilbury, i'hall«iiK«'il tb« Hev. VV. H. Cm^iM-
of the Methodist Clmrch, to dlacusH tho modn, Huluwlrt, iinl dnHiifii of (>MuiHtiiin ,
Baptism and the divine orijf in of tho Bw»k of Vlormon, and thudiillnn'jr i haviii:^
been accepted by W. H. Cooper, tlin followiujf propoaitlons and re;fu)ationrt ar>^
agreed to :— > ,

1. The m&do of Christian Baptism in l)y ImmerHlpn jpniy. L<<v,'fton
affirndB, Cooper denies. v-

2. Infant Baptism is of Bible authority Coip )r artirmfl, LiViirtJii dmin.
8. The immorsion of the body in water is essentiai to«alvarion. f^evej'-

ton affirms, Cooper denies.

4. The Boolt of Mormon is of Divlqe origin and of equal authoflty with
the Bible to the people to wlioin it. was first ,written, and, since its revelation in
1830 to all people in all ages. Leverton aH|rms, Co )per denies.

1. Th^^ propositions shall- Nl)ediacu8s©d in th.j order above written and
shall ooo»pytW^o evenings each.

2. In the discussion of these propositions th<i Bible shall be the standard
of evidence^ but either disputant shall have the privilege of also using whatever
proofs he may bring from lexical, historical, scientiflc, nr other works.

3 Each session shall begin at 8 p. m., artd shall be opened with prayer
and closed with the benedictiriii; the disputants leading in irayer and dismissing
with the benediction, alternately or by selection.

4. Each disputant shall speak 'twice during each sassion of th.ML^bate
with his opponent alternately, the attirmative to lead each evening on the pn-.
position he affirms during all the time of Its discussion, and the negative to
follow and miCke the flosing speech. The first speech of each disputant to
occupiy forty-tive minutes and the second thirty minutes.

5. The discussion shall begin on tlie 18th day of April and shall continue
for eight consecutive evenings, excluding Sundays, or until April 2<>th.

6. A chairman shall be chosen by the mutual consent of the debatants or
representatives. Each debatant shall choose a moderator The duties of the
chairman and moderator shall be those usually performed by Si^ch persons.
The moderators in calling attention to any point of order shall not address the
speaker on the opposite side, but shall Mppeal to the chair. Tlie chairman shall
not have authority to decide wiiat is or what is not evidencfe. but shall rule
acconiing to regulation (3) of this agreement. Time lost in settling points of
order shall be allowed the speakers. During the Sunday intervening between
the sessions of this debate the parties tht^r^to shall no.t discuss the questions herein
named in the absence of his opponent. At the close of the debate the chairman
Bhali ask the audience if it desires by vote to decide the merits of the debate, and
allow the audionce to do so if it wishes. A committee shall be appointed who
shall be responsible for the rent of the Anderson Hall, which shall be secured for
this discussion. Personalities and ungentlemanly language shall be aroided by
the debatants.

WALTER CABLESS,
JAMES FOSTER,

Witnesses.

W.H. COOPER,
A. LEVER ION.

Mr.

men: —

here to

a|^ ho|

/ do m

/blame 1

/ todiscu

all awi

papers.

able th?

on in tl

motive.

of qur

sion vt\

the tem

tioh is o

Dated at Tilbury Centre, Ont.j March 19th, 1S94.

'W .

:m:oid:ei of bjlfotib

PROPOSITION FOR DISCUSSION.

i'HE Mode of Christian Baptism is by Immersion Only\

ELDER LEVERTON AFFIRMS.

FIRST evening.

At the hour of eigrht o'clock oa the evening name|4„in the agnreement,
the Anderson Hall, Tilbury' Centre, wa^ well filled with JJ^ighly respectable
audience, evidently interested to know the truth relative to WK'V^xtjd question to
be discussed. The Chair was occupied by N. Mills, Esq., Barrntbr.

After devotional exercisos, Mr^ Mills announced that Mr. Leverton would
open the debate by aftirming the above proposition,

.'i

•^

IB. lEVEBTON'S FIRST SPEECH.

Mr. Chairman, Ladieb and GbNtle-
mbn:— I am pleased to meet so many
here to-night to listen to this discussion
and hope it will prove pro.ltable to all.
/do not consider myself altogether to
/blame for this discussion. We are here
todiscuss the subjects of which you itre
all aware, having read them in the
papers. There is nothing more proflt-
ablti than a discussion when it is carried
on in the right spirit and with the right
motive. One of the first things we read
of qiir Master Is, that hi.^ had a discus-
sion ifi^ith the lawyers and doctors in
the temple; Luke 2:42-46. This proposi-
tion is one vei-y much discussed among

the children of men. I affirm that

The scriptures are the exponent of
what I wi^ to affirm. I shall com-
mence with Matthew 3, l-H. "In those
days came John the Baptist preaching
in the wilderness of Judea, and laying,
rjpant ye for the Kingdom of Heaven
is at hand * * * The vQice of one
crying in the wilderness, prepare ye
the way of the Lord, make His paths
straight. Then went out to him Jerus*
aiem and all Judea ♦ * * and
were baptized in JorcOan confessing
their sins." This proves to us th^t this
same John was -jto prepare the way of
the Lord. Again, in Luke 1-17 wAfind
the same idea presented. In these
quotations from scripture we have a
man sent to prepare the way. Luke
says, to make ready a people prepared
for the Lord. Mark 1 : 3-4; "Prepare ye

Christian baptism is by Immersion only, the way of the Lord, make his path.H

PiW-i|»'r;7''' **'■■* '^'•'

,V.j .

WMH^wUh

4* TIIK C(MM'EU-LEVKKT()N DP BATE.

■IIM ■■■limiM^ II I • ■ ■ " W»9^^ fr ' ""' —"—-'"- -..iLhU..... X ...^ J.,t...l,lJ,l|llM I ''I ■ '"■

■tralght." How did John do thW? lie piimiinK hit whol*! lK»d3^ UicoukIi tli«

fit by promliiiiK r«i|Kiitaiuc nnd door, whkh prov«H tKntJn' wim iiii-
.irfzliijf ill tlio rlvor .lonluii, not on nuTHcd, iih tlio ImptiHin whf^^-li .lolin iid-
thiv liiiid, Wlint i« tliii rlviir Jordan? nilni«t<a<'d
Boni« liavii Hiiid tliM lii« rlvm- Ik tlio
hAuUH of th«i rlv«r. VVo lu'vt'r lliid a
riviT witliout wiitvr; licnco, .loliii niiiHt
liiivt" Imptly-tid tlioirt in tlii' wiitur^
In iMt IHttiT 3:21, w« will HiUHio%«i-
thiii^ uiMHit tlio niodo In wliicli It wiih to
b« |M'rforin('<i. "'rii« Uk(f liK"«<' whciv-
unto bnptlHin dotb now Havo mm." Hen!
I»«t««" hM8 rot'«rr«!nf«i to tlu) Anti'dcluviiiii
world;' aiHl in (icn 7 : liP20. VVr Hiid
tbat (lod wnt rain lor forty day» and
forty nijf litH u|H)n tlio j'arth, and tlu!
fountaiiiH of tb() j^reatdoup werii laoki'ii
up and till! wati'r was ttttotin lubitM
abovo tlio liiKlieHt niountahiH. Peter
'said this was a flg-iire of , ImptiHin.
There must be loverin^ up in the water
if we foll>)W up this conipariHon. In
John 3: 21-23, Jesus baptized ami John
was baptlKini? in A«!nonnear to Salem,
because there was much svnU'r there.
Now we have not only shown that John
baptized but that Jesus also baptized.
In Matt. 3-16, we Hiid that Jesus had
come to John to be baptized. J«liii
said, I have need to be bjtptlzed of
Thee, and comest Thou to me ? But
Jesus said. Sutler it to be so now for'
thus it bi^comoth us to fulfill all right-
eousness. And when he was baptized
ho went up straightway out of the
water. Here we have Jesus coming up
out of th«^ water. If he had not gone
into the water he certainly could not
come up out of it. In John 10 : 1-3, we
find. He that entereth in by the door is
the shepherd gf the sheep. There is
only one door of entrance and only one
administration mentioned in scripture.
Jesus entered by the door. John was
the porter and the only man who ad-
ministered any rite to Jtisus, and the
only rite that he administered was bap-
hence. th en b aptism is the door

tiam ;

wHt«< In Kph.
4:1-5, One \aw4, one fnith\onH bap-
timn If thi're Ih only oiki baptlMin how
Clin tht-ri' Ik* many i* Acts ^:!W,3J),
hiillp biiptizcd tilt* euniu-Ji. \ When
Philip joined hiiiiHelf to thiwhaiiiot the
eunuch wiih reading the scriptuW at
Isaiah TtM, where it tells about .\eflUH
(;hriitt, Jind from that Philip preni^hed
ChriHt to him. \

When, thereforeNK* -wa^nir trt* ^w«e
wnU'v he Mild what doth hiiidi^' nie td'J^
bapliz«H|. Philip said, If thou beliovtisk''
with all thine h((art, thou mayest. H«\
said I l)elieve that Jesus ('hriHt. Is tlie
son <)f (J<hI. Then tliey boHi went
down into the Water and he baptized
him ami when they were come up out of
the water the spirit caught away Philip
that the tmnuch SJiw him no more. 8ome
one has said th.it Philip was baptized
too, but although they (plur.) went
down Into the water, he (sing.) baptized
him (sing.) Oik; was the administrator
and the other w{ts the candidate. It
would have been foolish for tlu^n to go
down into the water if he had only
wanted t6 diptiis fingers in it. Thev
went down and came up. How much
water was used? It took suffieient to
cover him just as the waters covered the
earth Rom 4:3-5, Know ye not that
so many of us as were baptized into
Jesus Christ were baptized into his
death. P'or if we have l)een planted
together in the likeness of His death
we shall be! also in the likeness of His
resurrection. We find, therefore, that
we are buried by iMiptism into His
death.

Is there any other mode than immer-
sion that will bury you with water?
If you are buried i)y water you are also
risen with Him in the resurrection.
Death is prostration and you must be

•grain,
baptiirtti
Him thi
ofOodi
dead.
Holy (}h

ilnir. \
in this I
works ol
done, bu
saved un
tlon and
, What ia

"^ water; oi

led. E

iMinctlfy

of water

26; Her

Levitica

Lev. U

blood mi

dipped i]

QUO kilh

cleansing

senta sii

mened i

must be

born of w

enter the

' was nothJ

immersio

is impossi

first cone

fortii out

prove im

Ye are wi

church w

no referer

ing. Job

SaiimV ab

of theJor

water thei

was need

and it.^<

corinot exi

ykingdom,
life untile

through which Jesus, the shepherd prostrated in baptism or buried. So
entered; not by being sprinkled, but by also in the resurrection, there is a riBing"

M^S M^ '^^^W^-^^ M.

mir^^^^!^m?^i:i-mi

T^~p^17W, '

> WilH illl-

I Jdllll llll-

lii Kph.

\oiiH Imp-

i|\tlMin how

h. \ WhcMi
I'luiriot tlu>
riiituVi'H at

Mint J«flUH

I prtMiqlu'ii

•!■ im i&n^
I Imliovtwi'^
iy»iHt. H«\
liHt Ih the \
Ik)Hi went
1', baptUcid
vnpOut of
fiiy Philip
onv Soino
iH Imptizud
ur.) w«int
) Imptized
iiinistrator
idato. It
thorn to gt>
hnd only
it. TheV
How much
ufiieiunt to
'overod th«
r(v not that
ttized into
i into his
^n planted
Hi8 death
nesH of His
efore, that
into His

an immer-
th water?
9U are also
surrection.
1 must be

;<f«p;.

- 'w^'fwn-"frr~'w^w^^vK^': ^'

THE COOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE.

•(rain. Col. 9: 12; Buriod with Him In
baptiirtn wherein ye are rl«»n with
Him through th«5 faith of the o|M4rat1on
orOodwho liathralwMl Him froffi the
dead. There is the baptiam of the
Holy Ghost and by (ira— not by nprink-
ilng. 'di^se baptisms are not In dispute
in this pro|)08ltion. Titus 3 : R). Jslot by
works of rijfhteoMsness which we have
done, but according to His. mercy "Me
saved us by the washintf of ntfpenera*
tion and renewing, of the Holy Ghost.
. What Is washing, is it sprinkling a few
'^^(kops of water? By no means.

^Our bodies are washed with pure
"^ wat<A'; our hearts cleansed— not sprink-
led. Heb. 10:22; That lie might
sanctify and cleanse it with the washing
of water and by the word. Eph. 6 ; 26-
26; Here it is a Washing. In the
Levitical law we find the same idea.
Lev. U : 1-8; One bird is killed, the
blood mixed with water, the other is
dipped in the blood and waterof th^-
QUO killed. This was dodp||f' the
cleansing of the leper. Lepral;f^epre-
sents sin. The bird after being im-
mersed was let go. John 3:8-5; Ye
must be bom again; except a man be
born of water and the spirit he cannot
enter the Kingdom of God. If there
was nothing else in the Bible to prove
immersion this would be sufficient. It
is impoislble to be born of water until
first conceived in water and brought
forth out of the water, which would
prove immersion only. I Cor. 6:11;
Ye are washed, ye are sanctified. The
church was washed, cleansed, purified;
no reference here to sprinkling or pour-
ing. John baptized in Eanon, near to
Salim, about forty miles fh)m the head
of the Jordan, because there was much
water there. A large aWunt of water
was needed to perform the ceremony
and it.0vld^ntly was by immersion. We
CQrtnot exi8\unttl born into the physical

Baptisni by imuieriilon was prartlred by
the early Chrii^tiuns, no sprinkling,
unless the person was sick and if he re-
covered he was InimenMMl. The writ-
ings of the fathers show that thf«re was
no other nuMle adopt<Ml for 2(iO ycMirs
after Christ. J[, therefore, feel Jnstlfled
in taking my stand in favor of immer*
sion, though differing from the majority
ot people of the pntsent day. We
should lay aside prejudice, study the
word of God for ours«)lves and not de-
pond upon what we have been taugbt.
We may differ In our views, but we
have a right to discuss the questions
freely, guided by the scriptures. |Tinie
up. J

♦♦♦♦♦ ■

IB. COOPER'S nRST RG^LT.

sXuni
wmRi

^Ingdom, and\we cannot have the new
llfeuntil weare bom htto the new life.

Mk. Chairman, Ladibh and Gbntlk-
MBN:— I quite agree with my opponent
in hit remarks touching the value of
, controversy. Some persons tell ua that
religious diiKUsslons only engender
strife and hard feelings and are proriAuc-
tlve of no good. I cannot agree With
them In such an opinion at all. I be-
lieve It to be wholly untrae. All those
great truths that we hold dear in philos-
ophy, in science, in theology and in po-
litical economy have been reachi^ and
settled upon a firm basis through contro-
versy. He who has troth for his object
never fiears the test of discussion and
will never nhun an Investigation Into
the grounds of his faith. The questions /
to which we shall call your attention
during this debate are of not only pres-
ent but of future and eternal Interest to
U8, and are, therefore, unlike many of
the great questiims that are at the pres-
ent time of such exciting interest to the
public mind butwhlch will pass away and
be^forgotten. How important, therefore,

)uried. So
is a rising

that we enter upon the discussion of
these great questtons with that spirit

r'V^^w^^:w*t"'W ■»-'

THE C(X)PKK-LKVEU'1'0N UKUATE.

thMt will «nHbUi UN Ui w«»l»rh Um' nrjfu-
muiit, iumI wJmhi cohvIihm-cI oI th« triOli
to prActU" U U) t»i« lu)iior of Utxl •nd
»ATv*tlon <>f our own houIh.

Ill coinhijf Uifoni you thl« ovrnlnjC. >
do not Hlinply rt^prcmmt thi, Mi^lMMlUt
church honi but K«"«"t truflm h«ild
equ*lly Umr bv uwiiy oHmt doiioinhm
tloiiH hero and ^Imswhciro. My oppoiiwit
cotuoa U) UH m mw of t\w iibhmt t^xinm-
«tUii o( th« d'H^trliio of bin ibunb aiul of
tUoMM of othor chunh««» thAt hohl ulnillar
vIewtfeu|K)ii Moiiioof th« qutfHtloiiii b<ifon5
Ui: if, thorwforo, ho cttimot ««tHbllHh
hlM piwtloii imd prov.* hh pmpoiiltloii,
then It cannot \w proven by any one.

In proof of his imition h« <|Uot4id HfHt,
Matt. «:6; "And were bai>tlae<l of bha
in Jordan; alw Mark 1 : 6; And were
all baptixed of him In the river of Jor-
dan." But tbeHe pa»wiKo« tl" "•>•' *"•■"
nUh any proof whatevt^ of Immersion.
The Greek preposition "en" here trans-
lated, "in" is trauHlatiHl in the Bible
"at," "on," "with" 313 times, and could
be rendered here by "at" equally as
well as "In" without doing any injust-
ice to the passages and would then read
"And were baptized of him at Jordan,"
"And were all baptized of him at the
river of Jordah," Again if we admit
that "en" is here properly rendered "in"
and means "into" yet it does not prove
Immersion, for 'into" does not mean
' "under, " and if into cannot be rendered
"under" then there is no immersion. A
person may stand "in" the water, may
gfo "into" the water, as many a one
does, and not go under the water. That
"in" does not mean "under," and there-
lore does not prove immersion is proved
conclusively from the following pass-
ages: Matt. 3:1; "In those days came
John the Baptist preaching "in" (en)
the wilderness. "^Not under the wilder-
n wi Matt. 3:3; "The voice of one

"Into' the mountain he did not grt
"under" It. In I King* '/ : «, we have,
••Sblniel came down "Into" the Jordan
to meet David." Surely no one will
think that 8hlm.-l and Dr.vUI were
"under" the waters of the Jordan, or
lmiiM<rm'd In the river. Again In 'i
KlnguH:-!, we hav<', "And when they
came "li.to" the Jordan they cut down
wotKl." HunUy they were ntjt 'under"
the water cutting down wwmI. But If
"Into" the Jordan, "down Into" the
Jonlan iloert not mean,Mndei the waters
of the Jordan why couHtrne the very*
same phrnfteology In Matt. »:<> nn<l ^l«rk
1 : f) to menu "un<fer" the water. Again
If "In" and "Into 'do not mean "under"
then there Is no Immersion In these
passages and my opiwnent has failed,
his proofs do not at all establish his

))OHltioil.

To show further the alisunllty of the
assumption that John baptized by Ini
inersion we read Mark l:ft; 'And
there went out unto him all ihe land of
Judea, and they of Jerusalem, and were
all baptized of him. ' Now the popula-
tion o«k,all Judea and Jerusalem was
&,000,006 or the same as the Dominion
of Canada. Supposing only tfiree-flfths
of the p«*ople went out for baptism,
which would be 8,000,000. John bap
tlzed about 200 days altogether. It
woultl thus be necessary for him to bap-
tize 15,000 per day, or he would have to
baptize each day more pe'wns than are
found in the cities of Windsor .or .St.
Thomas by three or tour thousand,
which is absurd and imposfllble, while
the task of baptizing vast numbers by
sprinkling as the people stood upon the
bank of the river would be very easy.

Again John was of the priestly order,
and it is certain he would baptize 'ac-
cording to the prop||e<:y of Ezelkel 36:
25,26; "Then , will I sprinkle clean

crviBg"in"(en) the wilderness;" hefe water upon you. ' As further proof
"in" the wilderness does not mean that John did not immerse we find that
^*iinder;" Again, when Jesus went up his baptism is referred to as a purl fl»Mi-^

;-i^'W^ '^im^^i^wm:'m'mim^ ^.^k^:K-^i:'mimvk

.i»« -'i-jil ■"•PI", •"♦ w^';'^'^f

' t't-t'l "W-7i.jm>^"f^j'

TIIK aXn»KU LKVKK1X>N DKMATK.

•'%'

tlon; John H: 2ft, '2»J; *'Tli«n thor« «r««»
n quiMlion b«tw(>(«n miini! (if Juhii'it
(le«cipltit nnd the Jnwn iib«mt purtflcA-
tlon." Now, It l« woll known thiit nil
tho JawInK puriflcntionH woro t)y iiprlnk-
linff and not hy ininu*rHlon. No. IH: 19;
"and thu cloan portion Hliall Hprinklu
upon tho unihtMO • * * nnd \w
shall purify hiniMilf." Mill. 3: 1; "IUn
hold I will iioiid my n oHsori^tr. " Of
JoHUM it iH said, Mnl..H:il, 'And ho
ihnll purify thu sonH of Levi. " John
prone IknI ruptMitciu'o nnd an tho niun-
■onifer of ChrlHt, propnrinfc his wnv,
ndminlHtorod to tho poopio tht^ outwnnt
sign of purilk*ation which wax bnptiHni
by Hprinkltnf]^, for, a» we juHt pointed
out, John 'h bnptimn Im roforod i6\% "a,.
quoNtion <if puriflcntion"and nil purLt-'
cntioUH wuro by Hpriuklin^.

Agnin«thu riTor Jordnn \w too rnpiJ
and too cold to admit of a man Htnnding
in it day nftur dny immorBinfi^ as ho
would require to Htand in the wutur
walit deep. All tho great authoritioM
testify that tho Jordan is oxcuedingly
cold and swift nnd nioBt inuner8ioniiit8
admit this. According to the SchnlT—
Herzog Enc^'c, Art, Pulestine, between
Hernion and the Sen of Galileo the
descent is more thnn sixty foot to the
mile, nnd between tho Sea of Galileo
and the Dead Sea nl)out nine feet to the
mile. Dr. Whedon says : " From the
rapidity of its flow it may bo styled
almost a continuous cataract, Dr. Young
gives similar testimony as do Dr Smith
and Elder Sweeny, while Joxoph Swarss,
a learned Rabbi, and for sixteen years a
resident of the holy laiid says : " The
Jordan is so rapid that oven the best
swimmer cannot bathe in It without
endangering his life." (Qedgraphy of
Palestine P. 48.) How then «ould John
stand for months In this cold rapidly
ruonlng river and baptize all Judea and

Hut he goo« to tho Impttim of Jesus and
«|UoUid MrtU. »i:l«, "And Jesus when ho
WMN hnptljUMl went up straight way out
of the water and Mnrit I :», l<» "And .
was l)aptlx<Ml of John in Jordnn and
•ttrnight way t-omlng up out of tho
water." My op|Ninent aSMunioM as moat
ba|>tiHtH do without any proof whatever
that our Saviour was iniuieugd from .
these pasMagi'S. In Mark 1 : 1)W< Greek
pre|MJsltlon rondcTwd "In" la "els" which
is translated in the N. T. by - to " and
" unto " !*)«« times nnd simply means "to
the river." But If we allow that It la
properly translated by "In " Immersloti
Is not proved. To prove Immersion ,
from this word you must show that "In'
moans " under " for unless tho person Is
put un<lt*r the water there is no immer-
sion. But a iMirson may go into thf
Water ankle or knw? deep and have the
water sprinkled on tht\head. My op-
|)onent nsks as do all immerslonlsts,
with a triumphant flourish that Is amus-
ing, " If Christ hau not been under the ^
water, how could he comt^ up out of th«^
water i*

He argues that a person must bo.
entirely under the water before he ««n
come out of it. Have my friends In the
audience \uvce to-night not heard a parent
call a child to come out cf the water
when It was only ankle or knee dtHip?
Is not^tho very same phraseology used
every day in such cases and no one
Imagines for a moment that thQ;«hild has
been immerlsed. Again when we ex-.
amine these passages wej And that in
Matt. 8:t« the Greek prepdsltlon render-
ed " out of " is '-• apo " and that It means
simply "firom." It Is so rendered In the
N. T. 374 times and the tite^lslon Com-
mittee representing the s«rftolarthip of
the woi-ld translated It "from the water."
In Mark 1:10 the Oit>ek preposition
rendered " out of " Is also " apo " In the

Jeru sa lem? It would 1^ s imply Impo s- — Gr ee k of King Jam e s' ver s ion but the
sible, my opponent lias entirely failed Revised Greek Version gives ;* ok"
to find immersion In John's biptism but ek. also means "from" and Is so

SfA

h^f

THE COOPEK-LEVEKTON DEBATE.

Mudered in the N. T. 186 times. The
paMsges correctly translated read ilk
both quotations " from the water " not
"out of the water, " Al lowing riow ever
that "apo" and "eit" are properly
rendered by/' out of " yet immersion is
not proved at all for when ft person
stands but anlcle deep in the water he
is said to come "out of" it. There is not
an iota of proof that Christ ever*wa8
immersed. Again all ancient pictorial
representations of Christ's Baptism re-
present Christ standing in theedgeof the
JtNTdan and John standing on the banic
pouring or sprinliling water upon his
head, Gregory Thaumaturgus, who was
bom A.D.210, and died A.D, 270,and who
built the first Christian chapel of which
we have any record, represents John as
saying toJesns at the time of his baptism:
''How shall I touch thy undefiled headt*
How shall I stretch my hand over thee
who has strdlched .o^t the heavens as a
curtain and established the earth upon
the waters? Stretch out thy ft«ad
right hand which thou hast prepared for
thyself, and crown by thy touch my
head." In reply to this Jesus isrepre-
seiited as saying : It is necessary that I
should now he -baptiaed with this bap^
tkn." * * 'The Baptist having
heajrd this, stretched out his trembling
right hand and baptized, the Lord.
Thus, in a record'of Christ's baptism,
sixteen centuries ago, he is noiimmer^ed
but baptized by sprinkling. Yet with'
out the shadow of proof my friend "hste
.assumes that Cluist was immersed.

My apponent now leaves the Jordan
and goes to Aen<»i, because "there was
much water there," John 3:23. If John
wanted much water why did he leave
the Jordan? The Greelc phrase "hu-
data polla" occurs fifteen times in the
scriptures and is but once rendered
"much water." In Rev. 1:15 ; 14:2 ; 17:
1; 19:6 it is rendered '"many waters."
It means many springs. Dr. Robinson
says "It is six milias north-east of Jer-

usalem and many springs burst out from
the rocicy crevices at various intervals
for some miles." The water wps not
deep enough to immerse in, and certain-
ly John who baptised by sprinlcling
according to the Jewish custom, did n«)t
immerse there. There is not the i>hadow
of proof that John went to Aenon to
immerse any one. The gentleman asks
as do all immersionists, "Why did John
go where there was "much water if noi
to immerse?" We reply he went there
that the people might be accommodated
just as an army encamps where there is
water and lUst as Methodists select
places of much water for camp mei^tings.
Why did the Methodists select Grimsby
an4 Chautauqua and Bay View on the
lakes? To accommodate the people
not to immerse, for Methodists do not
immerse as -a rule. The gentleman
next introduces Philip and the Eunuch
Acts 8 : 88. "And they went down both
into' the water, both Philip and the
Eunuch" Do "into" and "out of" imply
immersion here? If my friend says no
he gives up the argument, if he says
yes he gives up the immersion theory
for if "into" and "out of" imply im-
mersion here, then Baptize does not for
after they went into the water Philip
baptized the eunuch and it wais after the
baptism that " they come but of tne
water,"agaln if " into "and " out of "
imply immersion t^en both Philip dnd
the eunuch were immersed for both
went down "into" and came up "out
of." If my friend says Philip had to go
down into the water to immerse him
then, I reply, first that destroys the
"into" and " out of" theory, and second,
it begs the question ajtid assumes thfe
point to be proved This text does not
prove immersion at all, for first the
Greek prepositions "eis" and "ek" here
rendered "into "and " out of "may with
equal justice and harmony l>e rendered "
"to" and "from" and the passage
would r ad "they both w:ent down to

J^ Wf «« v3?^-^|^^tl|gfMiiK^?!^l*i^»^^

THE COOPKir-LEVERTON DEBATE,

tliBVatoi' • * • and caino up from
tho wator," mid w« Imt'on? pointwi out
that the word "ela" is translated in tho
Biblo "to' or "unto"' o^H tiniuH and "clc"
is rondorod "from" im tiinea If I allow
my opponent the* passaK-c. as it Ih ronddr-
<!d by Kin;,' Janu*^' version, vot li« Is no
bhttur otf for "into" does not in«ply"un-
d«r." Thoy could stand in ih« water or
«t) into the watc-r and go under it, but If
into does not moan undur, then tj|j||e is
no immersion hen?. If it means iwer,
then thoy w.tre both under, for the
words "into' and "out of apply to Iwjh.
My friend does not go under the water
wh«n he imptizes a candidatt;. Ag-ain
if tlie eunuch had been under tlie
water he^would not come up "out of it.
He would be taken out bj^PhiHp. Dip-
ping- implies putting- in and taking- out
a^niin, and |f Philip dipped him lie took
him out, aud that makes it impossible
that he came oyt himself/ But why ga
down "into the water, my friend asks,
if not for immersloni' If sfirinklinff was
the mode why did not Philip frake a cuj)
or pitcher and gn for the wateri' Chris-
tianity had not yet goiw to tlie Gentiles
and the law of Mosas required running
water, and if a vessel had Iwen supplied
by the eunuch it wouhi have b ;eu un-
«lean. [Lev. ll:30-m>.] But there .is no
doubt that the eunuch was baptized f>v
apfinklingr, This is proved beyond a
doubt from the passaj?.! the eunuch was

reading in Isa 52 and 53. It must be
remembered that there were no chap-
ters orVersjs in t'l! ori<,nn!U, only pira-
g:raphH and that Luke in referring- to
the passigre dojs not quot.Mhe whole of
it, but a part. Now taking tho whole
passag-H d(iscribhig the Work and suffer-
ings of Christ the eunuch would begin
in the previous chapter, Isa. 52:15: "So
shall he sprinkle many nations' When

tized. " The eunuch wag reading about
'Christ who should sprinkle manv na-
tions, how? by bapMsm. Nothing can bo
clearer than that the baptism here was
by sprinkling and not inunersion. Next
we come to Kom. fi: H,4: "Know ye not
that so many of us as were baptized Into
Jesus Christ were baptized into his
death, therefore wo ace buried with him
by baptism into death. If this has ref-
erence to water baptism then water
must at the same time represent first,
Christ; second, his death; third, a grave.
But it is never so rerresented in the
Bible. Again If dipping a jierson into
w/iter represents baptism into Jesus
Christ, then withdrawing the person
from the water repnisents taking the
candidate out of Christ and, likewiSSf out
of the beneHts of his deatli, w^ich isab
surd; tor when a person is baptized into -
Christ he is supposed to "abide in the
vine," to remain in Christ; The whole
theory is absurd and proves too much.
We are baptized into Jesus Christ not by
immersion info water, but by the spirit,
by whose influence we are made new
creatures. 1 Cor. 12: 13: "For by one
spirit are we all baptized into one body."
Not by water, but by one spirit is this
accomplished.

My friend tells us that baptism repre-
sents'*t>he death and resurrection of
Christ, also his burial. Now Christ did
not die in the water, but upon thecrOss.
How, then, can immersion represent
His (ieath. Again Christ was not hur-
ried under the ground as wo bury, but
placed in a cave cut into a perpendlcuT
larrock. This epistle was to the Ro-
mans *ii<l it is well known that the
Romans did not bury as we do. They
often burned their dead. Again bap^
tism and burial do not mean the same
and no standard lexicon define baptism

S!3r'u"'^'* ^ .""'^ ^^^ '' «^-^a«» burial. The idea is a far-fetched

superstition, and aItho«tgh many author-

plained to him as referring to baptism in

tV^^^^^^"^'''' ^^^^.^^^^^ "^^ ^^oted by my opponent

is water what doth hinder me to b^bap- making this passage refer to the ancient

'•T. , -* ^->,-&# ._-'• ■ *

-'^J *£ 1 "'_! ♦■

THE COOPEK-LKVEUTON DEBATE

mod« of bapMsin, y«t th«r« is ii > iinuioi--
sion in it. It lius no ivjtVfouiH! to wiitur
whatever. "Know y<' not that ho many
of maH wor« baptizod into joanH Christ
(not into wati^r). W(iro h.ipti/.tMl into His
d'iath (not into wiUor), tlici-(^tor(! wo ai'o
buried with him by biptinin into don ih
(not into water.)

Wo noxt com;i to l Potur, Jl: '21,
for iminorsion. My friond ui;ilxes th;;
'Miko Hguro" ndiir to the; earth, and \i^
holds that tho rain coininj? upon tiie
earth baptized it, but if tlie rain f.illinj?
upon the eurtlibapttzod it, it was a l)a^)-
tism by sprinkling for tlie rain fiir u|)on
the earth, th« earth was not dipp ^l int»
tho water. But if my friend liad bum
bettor posted he would not have made
the mistake of referrin}? the baptism to
the earlh by the rain for the baptism
refers to the "ei{?ht souls that were
saved by water" when ridinj? upon the
top of the water within the arK. In
this case the eijrht souls were baptised
not by putting them into water but by
keeping them out of tht; water. If this
is a figure of baptism it doi^s not prove
immersion for they were not. immersed.
The eight souls were baptizwi and saved
the antedeluvianpwerO immersed and
drowned, of course the baptism here has
reference nOt> to mode but to the condi-
tion of the eight souls, a condition of
safety on the water, in the ark, (time
expired.)

■/-

MR. LEVERTOM'SJECOHD SPEECH.

Mr. Chaiumas, Ladies and Oentlk-

MEN :— I am glad that Mr. Cooper has

entertained you so weU- He says he

does not represent methodism' but truth.

J, do not know whether he means that

/methodism does, not represent truth or

not. lam not a Greek scholar. I aiii

a farmer ; but I am astonished that lie

' should tell us that "irito"mean3 "under."

.There is one place where you can go

under the water and you will not get
sprinkled or inunersed and that is the
Sarnia tunm^l. It is not under the
wat(!r but nito tlie water, or immtnsion
that we are discussing. lU' Hmls fault
with the translation of t\\^ i>ibte. The
most learned men sat on the tr.inslation
of it and yet my op|)ouont is tiot «atisH(Hl.
He should get a translation of his own.
According to him the Hebrew children
were not cast into the ti.-ry furnace, nor
Daniel into thi! lions' tl'U. Nor was
Jonalv ill the tish. They were only ou
the edge or perhaps Jonah was on the
back of the lish, and rod cv ashore. We
have been taught that if we live good
lives \ve will enter through the pearly
gates into the city. If into do^is not
mean "into," then wo shall be uisap-
pointed. The wicked shall not be cast
into hell. This doe,s not mean into but
under, there M'ill then be a chance for
them. If we change the meaning of
this word it destroys the promises and
there will be no getting "into" the
Kingdom of Heaven. He says going
into the mountain; but ther(5 thav be
caves in the mountain. So also in the
woods, you do not go under them ,i you
g-o into them. He says that all the
people of Judea and Jer.isahim >yent to
John and were all baptised. He knows
better than that. John rejected many
of them for he says " Oh generations of
vipers." This was addressed to the
Fharises, a large body of the Jews and
they were not ba; tized. Some of the
audience cheered when he made this
statement ; but it was not tru«. He
says that th(ire was not suHicieiit water
inAenon to baptize by immersion. How
does he know? A curse was pronounced
against the Jews on account of their
wickedness. TU« «C»rly and latter rains
haveb(!en withheld and the streams and
pools then existing have dried up. What
about the sick waiting at the pool to be
put in or irimuirsed. He says the Jordan
was too swift a stream for baptising in.

■'frjf^

TJ^pifflPY'S^

THE €(X)PEli-LKVERTON DEBATE.

Jordftn wasn l»ir{r(! I'iyi^r, it olrfm niid
flowB. It WH8 divi<icd for the children of
lariu!! to pass throu;fli. N«mr tlut liond
wiiti^raof tli(! Jorduii mjiir S«liin, Hcvoral
8tr«iiin9 coiiuv to;fcth()r. Thorti is no
ucriptunil proof for pouring'-, ifthcroia
why do 8 hi! not f)rattico It. TIh! found-
er of his own eliurch, .John W(!rt!(!y Ih
ag'ninst him on this point for Ikv HJiys
that inuncrslon was thu o.arly mode,
of baptism. Uow.ft:! "Know ye not that
as many of us as were baptised Into
Jesua Christ were l)aptizfd into his death"
Into what d(!ath are we l)aptised ?
• Death, to sin, An<l rise to walk in new-
ness of life. , Kor if ye are planted in
the likeness of Christ's death, you shall
be raised in the likeness of his. resurree-
tioii. It is not to be buried ami pulled
out again. Christ's baptism js i\ type;
for all others. My opponent did not
touch the point of being conceived in
water in order to be born of water nor
that you must be born before you an^
baptised. The earth was filled with sin
and had to be immersed in water in
order that it should beclt^ansed of sin.
The rainbow was placed^n the cloud to
show that it would never again be
covered with water ; but it would Imj
visited the next time with ike, which is
a type of thji Holy Spirit". I Avill refer

of thji I
Wosley

to Johrj Wesley on the ancient.mode of
baptism, which he says was by hnnier-
sion. If the primitive church used im-
mersion as the motie of bapti^n, who
has the right to change it. It was the
mode practiced by the church for 25()
years after Christ.

MR. COOPER'S SECOHD REPLY.

MK. CfiAlRMAN, LaDIEH AND GkNTLE-

men:— I will first briefly review my
opponent's last speech and then resume
my arguments. My opponent does not
know whether Methodism represents
truth ornot/ Well, he will know more

about it wbeii ho gets to the end of this
debate. With his (exclusive views of
ba])tlsm and believing aa he does that
his* church is the only church of Jesus
Christ on earth, it is diflicult for him to
undeistaml that th(! MetlKKlist church
hohls d(rar, many truths that are equally
preci/ms to many other denominations,
and that I rei)reseiit those ti^uths in this
discus.sl(m. if any friend is not a (Jreek
scholar he oHgljt at least to easily umlor
stand F]iigliHli. When he sa.vs he is
aHtoiiished that 1 should say "into"
means "under " he puts words into my
mouth imd «Mther wilfully or ignorantly
misrepresents me nvdl think the au-
dience will bear me out in this as will,
the reporter who has my speech. What
J said was that the Ci reek iJi-epoBitions
"els" and "en" did not necessarily mean
" in "or "into" and that they wt're tran
slated "to," "unto" and 'at," "on" and
"with" hundreds of times:^ I (juetei^
several passages to prove that "into ''1:^
does not mean 'hinder. ' My opponent
cannot find a text in the Bible where
any one was put '.'under ' tlfti \yater and
that action termed baptism, for the
simple reason that in the days of Bible
writers they did not immerse anyone.
If "in"to," does ;iOt mean under then there
was no immersion described by the pnv
posiiions that my friend depends so much
upon My opponent's stale old chednut,
the story of the Dutchman who was glad
that the Hebrew children were not
into the fire, and Daniel was not into
the lions' den, and Jonah was riot into
the fish, and that the righteous ^viU not
enter into heaven^ and that the wicked
will not be turne(irnto hell, may answer
to amuse the ignorant as it has beim told
by imn^ersionists scores of times ; but it
has no argument in it and if my oppo-
nent, instead of answering or at least
trying to reply to my arguments sees fit
to fool away his time I shall not com-
plain. It is cei-titiji that "into "the fire
does not mean under the fiery ftirnace,

rAr 3- !»•

?'■

•V -

lUf, COOPER-LEVERTON DElUTE

** into " the den of lions d(H\» not mean
••under " tiie den of lionH, " into " tlie
fish does not moan •'under" the fishi,
••into*' heaven does not moan under
heaven, "Into" the Icingdoni does not
mean "under" the Itingdom, •Mnto" hell
does not mean "under" hell, ai'd "into"
the water does not mean " under " the
water. But my friend must prove that
•' into " means, under before he can get
immersion into these* texts. When ho
makes "into" mean ••under" his render-
ing will suit thedutchnian as well as
though he made it mean •'at " or 'by."
It would then read "the wicked shall be
turned'" under " hell. " The gentleman
says they were not all baptized in the
river Jordan and that my statement Is
false and that I knew it when I made it.
The question of veracity is not betwpen
Mr. Leverton and myself but l)etween
Mr. Leverton and Mark. Mark 1:5
says:— *' And there went out unto him
all the land of Judea and they of Jerusa-
lem and were all baptized of him in the
river of Jordan." Mr. Leverton says
they were not all baptized. Mark says
they were. I will now leave- it to the
audience as to who made the false state-
ment. If my friend were & little better
posted in the English version, even if he
does hot understand Greek, it would
save him from making "such blunders.
He told you that there is a river and
several streams near Aen9n. Well if
there are, no traveller has ever yet dis-
covered them, and as he has given us
no authority to prove it I ehall conclude
it is another little mistake he lias made
similar to that he made in reference to
John's baptism. We examined the
baptism of John in Jordan, at Aenpn,
the ibbptism of Jesns, of the eunucli, and
of some others, but these three cases [are
the Gibralters of the theory of imi^er-
sionists. fWc found no immersion in
them, on the contrary, that while a rive
is mentioned «iiid much water, yet the
evidence is conclusive that all these

baptisms wore by sprinkling. How is
it tnat imiherslonists generally are
always looking at the Jordan, Aenon,
with its " much water " and the eunuch
going down Into the water, only three
cases, and that they never soeni to
notice the many cases of Imptism where
there was no river, not much water and
no pond ? Let us look at some of those
cases. In Acts 2:41, 3,000 were baptized,
but no river or pond is mentlomMi, and
they could not be imniersed in the largo
tanks of water at Jerusalem' which were
used for drinking and cooking purpo
ses. The people of Jertisalem were
hostile to the Cliristians, and would not
have allowed such a thing, as immeir-
sion in the water tanks. They still
regarded themselves subject tp the old
Jewish law which would have rendered
the water unclean and unfit for use had
they immersed in it. In Act8^;l2 we
read"they were baptized both men and
women," but no river or pond is spoken
of. In Acts 9:1-18 "Aild arose anA was
baptized" He arose in the hous^ of
Ananias and was baptized. . He-did not
go " in ? or ••into" the water, and much
water is not mentioned. In Acb 19:5
we read " When they heard this, theiy
were baptized." No mention is inadt;
that they went into \n^^ter or came out
of it. In Acts 16:15 "And when she
was baptized and her household. " She
did not go Into or "out of the water." In
Acts 18:8, "And many of the Corinthians
hearing, believed and were baptlzecl.
Nothing is said of •' much wal^r "here.
Again 1 Ccr. 1:16 "And I baptized also
the household of Stephanos." Paul does
not mention a pond or river here, though
my friend may see both. Again we
have a clear case in Acts 10:47, 48, "Can
any man forbid water that these should
not be baptized." Cornelius is here in
his house and the Jewish law that
renders a vessel unclean is not to be
recognized longer; water may be
brought. Oar opponent will search in

-1 ' .i'

J^' • 1^^

f i,

TIIK (XX)PEH-LEVEUTON DEBATE.

18:

pr. How ii4

lorally ar«
m, A«non,
tho vunuch
only thrco
Br soein to
tism where
wntor and
rnu of thofle
re baptized,
tioueo, and
n the largo
which were
iiig purpo
nleUi were
I would not

as immeT-
They still
; to the old
tre rendered
for use hud
ct8 8;l2 we
th men and
d is spoken
)se an(i\ was
e hous^ of
He-did ttot

and much
I Acts 19 i 5
i this, theiy
jxi is inad<;
tr caiiie out\
1 when she
liold." She
water." In
Dofinthians
I baptized.
ateir"here.
fiptized also

Paul does
ere, though
Again we
17, 48, "Can
hese should
} is here in
. law that
■I not to be
• may be
I search in

vain for " into tlvi water" luw or for a
river or ♦' uuM'h w.itcr." Agitln we go
to Actrt 1(» :IV2, .'l.'l " And li*^ Hpako nnto
him tlH^ word (»f tlie Lord inid to all that
were in bin Ikhhh, and Im took thfin tlu!
same hour of the night and wnHhctl their
stripoH anil was l)aptiz('(l." TliiH was in
the house of tlu\jail and in the night Will
our opj)oiu'Ut invent, as inniua-Hionists
Bometinuis do, ine,nt a tank m' pond in
the house. In vvliirlito immerse tiir jailer
and his family? In all tluwe caKes no
river or pond i^ mentioned and yet ^e
eannot speaU OfbaptiMu witliont im-
njiir-iionists seeing at onee a river, a
pond on n»iuh wafer. By a furtlx^r ex-
amination of the us ' of "bapti/o ' in the
New Testament we lind that it often
signiHes a very slight or partial westing.
Compare Mark 7 :2, 3 willi Luke 11 :a8
,'And wh(*n they saw sonie of his discip-
les eat broad with defiled, that is to say
with uri washed hands, they found fauit.
For the Pharis-es and all the Jewt),
except they Wiish their hands oft, eat
\ not^ holding tliii tradition of the elders."
^ " And when the Pharisee saw it he-
marvelled that he had not first washed
before diinier.'; Here the washing in
both instances is that practiced by the
Jews before eitting ; and in Mark the
Greek word used is "niphont a i," in Luke
it is "ebaptisthi!," showing that these
words are luterchangtiable in thi! (Jreek
language. In other words, when water
was poured upon th:( hands in order to
wash them the hand« were said to Iw,
baptized. The custom of washing th<5
hands was by pouring water upon tlieni.
2 Kings 3 : U "Here is Elisha th(! son
of Shaphat, which pou<-e(l water on the
hands of Elijah." Again we find the
word "baptizo" iised where it could not
\ meanimnierston\ Mark 7:4 "And when
\ they come from the market, except they
-wash (baptize themselves) they ^at not.
And many other things* there be which
they have received to hold as the wash-
ing (Greek brfptism)t>f cups, and pots^

aiid bra'/i^i vessels and of lable.H." TlKr
word tabU'S is Rein<K)n which menns not
a t ible to eat' from,. I»nt a couch upon
whi< h persons recliiutl while at^, meals.
Then Klinoon were eleVations of the
floor around the sidtw of the reruns and
di<l not admit of innuer«»i()ii. Klt^vations
of the floor as are now often seen around
lodg<' rooms could not b.v picked up "
and (lipped or iiiciiMsed. They could
1mi baptizeil by sprinkling or afi'usion.
Again let us look at t Cor. lu: 1, 2 "More-
over, br^ithren, I would not that ye
should be ignoiant how that all our
fathers were under the c!(»nd, aiul ill
pasK;'d through the Sea : And wei' « nil'
baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in
the S(!a " Th(^ aposMe tells U'^ the Israe-
lites W(u-e baptiz 'd, yet they were iiot
immersed in figure or in fact. 1 heiird
of a Morman prcMicher who took two books
and set them up on e<lgeaii(l placed an-
other book on too of tliem and told hl.s
hearers that tfie waters of th'vs;':i stood up
asa wall on either side of them while the
cloud rested over them and tli" lsraelit<w
passed through between the walls and
under the cloud and wen; tiguratively
immersed. Just here comes in my friends
remarks alwut the Harnia tunnel. He
said people went uiuhn* th'- water and
did not get wet If Israel jvissing
through this imaginary tuimel Avcri'.
immersed, a tunnel with no watrer on the
bottom and no water at tin ends, then
all we have to do .to immerse persons is
to let the,m i>a83 through the Sarnia
tunnel or some tuiniel to inuntMse them.
But this figurative innnersion is all
imfigination. Tiie cloud was not above
Israel during their passage t!non'j;li the
Red Sea. Before they entered 'he sen.
the cloud went from before them, and
stood behind tlu^m, between thenv and
the Egyi)tian9. and continU(«l then; lyitil
they passed through the sea. Exotl.
14:9-22 They w 're b-iptizid. by the
cloud while they were under the; cloud
but theV were not under the cloud when

:\-::

•■\'

T'N'iV

THE COOPER^LEVERTON DEBATE.

ttmUiif throufi^h th« lioH. Whnii and
how wiw tlui baptifim of tho cloud per-
formed? Pan. «W:7-1(> ••Thou O Ortd
did'»t bend a plentiful rain, whereby
thou didst confirm thinv inheritance
when it was weary." What was the
state of conflraiatlon into which iMruel
was brought by this plentiful pain?
Paul says, "They were all baptlsfod unto
Moses by the cloud and it was this »>ip-
tlsm unto MoHes that confirmed Israel
in the dispensation of Moses. What the
Psalmist here calls a confirmation, by a
plentiful rain," Paul calls a "baptism
unto Mosea," But this baptism was not
by dipping'. It was by sprinkling with
the ruin from Hearen. In Psa. 77:iO-'2()
we have the same circumstances men-
tioned. The baptism in the sea was
upon the dry ground, Exod. 14: 22. The
baptism in the cloud was by rain sprink-
ling down upon the Israelites. Here is
a case of baptism without immersion.

Then again we have the case of Na-
aman 2 Kings 5: 8 . Naaman is direct-
ed to go a,nd wash himself seven times
in jordah. Naaman went and baptized
himrtelf seven times (Septuagent version.)
The translatoniof the Septuagent use
the words " louo " and "baptize" inter-
changeably here. Naaman was a'leper.
He was to be cleansed by baptizing
himself seven times in Jordan. Ho^r
was a leper cleansed according to the
law. oif Moses? Never by dipping or
immersion but by i»priukling. Lev.
U:7 " Aqd he shall B[H-inkle upon him
that is to be cleansed from the leprosy
seven times and shall pronounce him
clean." Naaman was eommanded to go
and wash (lousai) himself seven times.
The law of Moses required that a lej^er
should be sprinkled seven times in order
to be cleansed. Naaman did as he was
commanded and this is called baptism,
but it was by Sprinkling. The Hebrew
word translated here by the Seventy is
"tabhal,"in Gen, 87:81 the same Hebrew
word is tf-anslated in the Septuagent bv

the Oreek word ".Moluno, " The Seven-
ty thus used the words " Imptito " and
••moluno " Interchangeably, but all lexi-
cons give the meaning of "moluno" ••to
sprinkle." Thus f^m the plain use of
baptizoin tho bible, it means tosprinkle
whenever it expresses an action, though
it does not ^^enerally express an action
but a conditbm, and it is not material
how the condition is reached so long as
it is efTet^ted.

The next passage that I shall examine
is found in Heb. 9:10 •'Which stood only
in meats and drinks and divers wash-
ings," (baptisms in the Oro^ik.) Here
all tho variouH ablutions of the law of
Moses are called baptisms. These bap-
tisms were performed by sprinkling not
by immersion. Not a single personal
immersion was ever enjoined by the
law, and yet the law enjoined divers
baptisms. Heb. 9: 19 "For when Moses
had spoken eyery precept to all the
people, according to the law, he took
the blood of calves and of goats, with
water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and
sprinkled both the hook and alJ the
people." These sprinklings are called
by Paul"divjr8 baptisms." The mode
of baptism then is by sprinkling not dip-

Again in Matt. 20: 22, '23; and Mark
10; 88, 39, Christ asks: '• Are ye able
to drink of the cup that I shall dmtk
and to be baptised with the baptism
that I am baptised with?' Here the
baptism of sufTeriiig is referred to. It
was a superfusion, not an immersion.
Immersionists sometimes try to trans-
late every instance of the word baptizn
by immersion but in these passages they
have failed to do so. They cannot do
it. Dr. Conant, the grwit B-aptlst
scholar, has translated Mark lO: 38, 39,
■•'Are ye able to drink the cup that I
drink, or to endure the immersion which
I endure." Here he was not able to
translate baptizo by" immersion in two,
or rather four instances but hns render-

•^^ , r

■■\

THE COOPER-tEVRRTON DEBATE.

rho Sev«n-
)tl«o " and
lutnll ItixU
ioluno""to
laiu uiin of
tosprinkiA
on, thouiph

I all action
it material
8o1on^ a8

II examino
stood only
win wash-
t!k.) Horo
lie law of
rh«8e bap-
nkling not
) perflonal
m by the
led divers
hen Moses
io all the
,, be took
>at8, with
trssop, and
I alJ the
ire called
rhe nu)d(^
iBT not dip-

ind Mark
! ye able
all drintk

baptism
Here thc!
ed to. It
imersion.
to trans-
1 baptizo
figea they
annot do

Baptist
0:38,39,
> that I
on which

abld to
I in two,
I render-

ed it «'ndure.

"Wenow come to baptism by the
spirit," mv opponent does not want tO
touch this and sa.vs it does not belong
to this proposition. He knows it is
against him and does not want it
brought in, but I shall examine it for
it Ih conclusive evidence agninht his
theory of inunersbn. Matt. H:|l,
John says : "I indeed bnptize you with
water, Imt he shall bnptixo you with the
Holy Ghost.and with lire." Acts !:&
J4)sus said : * For John truly baptijifed
with vfrnter; but ye Shall bebapti:^.with
tne Holy Ghost not many dayi h(mc(^"
Now what was tho mode which was
performed upo.i the apoAtles when
thfjy were baptized with the Holy
Ghost? It was not immersion for the
Uol.^ Ghost was poured out upon them.
The scriptures always represent fh:^
baptism of the Holv Ghost as being
•'poured out," "a falling on," "a shed-
ding forth." When the Holy Ghost was
poured out upon the disciples on, the
day of Pentecost it wab the fulfilment
of the Saviour's promise : "Ye shall be
baptized with the Holy Ghr>st not many
days hence.'* When Cornelius and his
house were baptized with the Holy
Ghost, Peter says : " Thw'Holy Ghost
fell on them." Jesus said : John did
baptize with water, but ye shall be
baptized with the Holy Gbost. " I'liat is
the very same thing that John did with
water, Jesus did with the Holy Ghost;
the only diffdr^ince betwuan them was,
John used the element water, Jesus'
used the Holy Ghost. What did Jesus
do when he baptized with the Holy
Ghost ? He *' poured it out " upon the
people: He "sliied it forth" upon thum.
"It IViron them." Here the mode of
the Holy Ghost baptism is specificall v
set fort^. It is by pouring They were
not dif^ed, immersed or plunged into
the Holy Ghost. The argument is coir
clusiye. It is a demonstration . Our op-
poneiits say Imptizo is a verb of spectflc

action only. Here Is a spc^'itlc action
and that spet^iflc action was pouring.
The small quibble that then^ is a diflTer-
ence between pouring and sprinkling is
too puerile to wuhUi anytime over. If my
opi>onent says there was nos|MM:itic action
in this baptism he gives up his cas<i. It
he admits sptH'iHc action, it was the
wptHUiic action of pouring and he is
iMsaten. His case falls to the Ktound.
There is no iNiptism of immersion in the
bii>le. We know that baptism is st^'rip-
t.iraliy performed by pouring or sprink-
ling. We do not know that it U scrip
turally performed when a person is
inimerse<l. Yet we hOld that "baptizo"
is a verb of result and that the mode Is
not ^Rssential. The verb 'Ho kill " is a
verb of result and. you can. accomplish'
the result in niaoy wayis, by poisening, by
shooting, by drowning, Ac. How absurd
for a man to say, over the corpse of a
man killed by shooting that, he is not
killed for nothing la killing but drowning,
you would say he is dead any way. The
result is aticoinplished. It is just as ab-
surd f6r my opponent and itunu'>rsi(>niRts
to say that nothing is baptism but. im-
mersion, and that the nuxle is essential.
My friend holds that "baptizo" ineansto
dip and that you must dip the c^indidate
for baptism, that the person niust h.'.
handled by an administrator. He said
i'hilip Was tne administrator and the
eunuch the candidate. In this he la in
harmony with immersiontsts generally.
Dr. Carson, the greatest of Baptist
scholars says : "My position is, that it
always signi ties to dip; never express
ing any thing but mode." (Cars(m on
Baptism P. 55.) Now suppose an ad-
ministrator takes a candidate for bap-
tism to a tank full of water and puts the
candidate under water. He is immeb
sed. Suppose instead of putting him
under the water of wh*ch the tank is
full, he .Inds the tank empty;, puts him '
into it and sprink les or pours water upon
the man until he is covered entirely with

\f.A

f#"

, r..

THE aX)l'Kl{ LKVERTON DEBATE.

w«t(»r, thi' iiinii Ih frmnitrfipd for ho In

uiidor wiitor Init lin wiih not (li|>|M'(l or

liiiiidlo i. What In tlio iictloii in thi.tcnHci'

Tim ri'Hult iniiy iMhuccumpliHlicd In <llf-

fcrunt wrtyK «n<'n In ItoMict-rtin;:^ a p.THon

you may dip liini or jtour W'aUir u\vm

liiin uiltJI ho Ih inimcrHed. Now wliilo

t\w i:iuulUli\U> Ih nnd t tlio wat.-r yon

Kay lie Ih InniicrHod VVIuMr you tak(«

tihn out of the waMir lio Ih notiniincr^cd.

It' biiptiHUi nicanx jniincrNion. then tlin

candidate h l>a|iti/a'd juMt nH hmfx aH

\v' Ih under (li<^ water, When he is

tak«n out of the water ho iHnf)tt)apti/.(*(l.

ThuHc. roinarlss* apply to aiiv oUwv

HpiH-ific action that Itaptiv.o is defin"d to

mean. It uiatt^^rN not wheth'r a piTKon

partaken of tlie Lord's Snpper, HiftiUfr

lBtan<liny or kiieelinj,". The poHture Ih

not oMHcntial. But Hnyn my innn(^)'HiotiiH.

friend you mnst eat it. ye» hut whi'thcr

lyou <'h«iw th« food on on<^ Hid«^ of th*'

loutli or tho other or whether you clx'W

[t at nil dooH not matter the aetlon in

^ot spec I He In eatinjr. Neither in the

^ord's Supporis tho amount eftsenria I. It

a rtymhol. So In hnpti^Ui the (piantity

of water Ih not eswnitial. It is a symhol

or cleanHinff by the Spirit and a small

quftntity is as gootl as a riv(>r or tank ful.

Tne mode of baptinm or the quantity of

water «8<?d is not essential thon;;h in the

scriptures Ahe models ahvays wh«n indi-

icnltod at all, by sprinkling or affusion.

SECOND NIGHT.

[same huhjb(;t.|

MR lEWRTOH'S THIRD SPEECH.

■>;■,

The

proposition for thiseveninii;' is tho
as >vas before you last even injur,
Ctiristian Mode of Baptism iifcby
Immoi sion Only.' I think my friend on
the op:)osite side of the hou.so wandered
last night from tho proposition".

same
^'The

a littk-

He dw Bit on spiritual baptism. That I

do not eonslder to l>o tho chrlstlnn bap-
tlmn but OiMrH baptism and His only.
The chrlHtiaii baptisnt in aihainlMt>Tod
by a chiristlan minister to fhrse wh"
wish to br;como chrhtlans. Christ says;
(^o nnto all natiiaiH and pt^(*ach tho ^ok*
p4>l, hapti/ln^ t\wm In my niinnt ete.
Wo have it nowhoro jflven In Mcripture
that (fod ^avo man power to administer
tho Holy (iliost. Outside of that I tliink
W(t are not following; t\u> iroposition I
will first offer wane remarks upon tho
n'ftn'onn^ mn«lo l>y my opponent to tlie
prophycv In Valaehi H: 1 ». "BohoM I
will send my meHsenffor, <'te." He said
this liad reforone<» to .lohii rh(* baptist.
Hero we dlseover firrtt that this mes-
s(mjf«'r Is to ICO lioforo tho I^ord and
prepare tho way for him, yet the mis-
sion of John is a different <aiealtoj;"ethev.
I)i«l tlio Lord sudxh'niy come to His
temple at that time? When Ho did
c'oine did they dolight in Him ? as it is
said in Malaehi. No, they did not^ and
a^ain Wlio can atddo tho day of His
comin/f ? E^•^'rybo(ly abide<l Ids coming
tlwn, and did he coiue like a refiner's firVi
etc? Ho found his temple like a m«i'-
ket place but ho did not wholly pnrgo
the temple. So wo do not find one parti-
cle of tliis fulHIted in that com iUj^. This,
has referonco to his lastcouiinf*' whr»n
in revelation it says he shall .sit upon a
cloud, etc. Conw^queirtly niy frh^nd
was wrongr in ap|)lyina it to John.
Again al)out tiie many wallers : Ho said
" much " did not moan quantity, but
plurality. I am not a Greek scholar
but if those trho w«'ro appointed to trans-
late the scriptures did it in such a way
as to deceive men and h^ad them a.'<tray
we would bo l)etter witiiout tho bible.
Isn't tho word " poly " translated much
as well as manv ? Werti not the trans- -
lators as capable of doing thei*' work as
my opponent is? We aroytold that
" into "must mean " under " in order to,
prove immersion from Matt. 8: 9; Mark
il: 5-10; and Acts 8:38, 89, I ftni glad

h.f adt
in smni
OfcjHir
ing all
hero to
alt WMi
ters.
to go .
bo lusci
when :
forenc;
Ho Ha\
sprlnk
thinn H
dttloii
them.
Vight
there
mftdo
tUne <
tak.'n
years 1
■ jfrom tl
to tho
14, it
leper ;
two bl
Hcarlel
'^v Shall \

' r'Minii
he slid
the m,

V them
the b
ning ^
him tl
rosy HI
of the
tion.
of Chi
reprei
vineg
scarle
living

■ "■ was' I
blood
tdbe

bproi
dont I

iriHtlnn hnp-

I IliH only.
ilmliilMtiTful

iIkmm wh"
I'liriMt nnvH:
u;1i tlni i!o>*'

imiiK* vtv.
ill Hcpipturt'

ItllltlilliHtCI'

hut I think

|l(»siti(lll I

K upon th)^

iiit'ii* to Hie

"H«Oiol(l I

'." Hcwiid

ho I'JIptJHt.
t tlliN IIICH-

lionl and
ct the iniH-
rtlto^iU'thcv.
lino to Hin
en Ho did

II ? 118 it iH
id noti mid ,
day of TliH

IliH cnniin^
[•('(Incr'H fii^

lik<! A njlir-
lolly pnryo
(loiiopnrti-
II in^. This,
iinfj; wh^n

sit upon a
Tiiy .f'ri(*nd
t to John.
ra : Ho H.-iid
anfity, but
'Ok scholar
i!d to t ran 8-
luch a way
hi;ni astray

tho l)il»!o.
Intod much
; tho trans- -
.tit work as
7 told that
in ord«r to.
3:9; Mark
I fttn i^lad

TMK («K)I>RR I.KVKRTON !>KHATK.

11^

\r.i ndinittod thnt into'did nioan iiiuhir
hi tMiino pInccH wluui It Mult«^ I hix cmiho.
OfcoufHO I do not hlHniMhlni foradvano-
Injr all til ' artniio^iU* ho can. tor \\i> U
hons to innintiiln hl«i>oMithin. What wo
All want Ih to jfot riifht upon th.>in inrtt-
teiH. To ffo Into tlio wlldornoHH Im not
to ^-o -ndor It any iiioro thiin it would
bo m'X'itAHury to ((O undur tins niountnlii
wh«n you no Into Jt I admit With ro-
foronc.i to tho plotiironof th;i cataoombH.
Ho Hayn tho nio»t aliolont «moH r« pr.'Hont
■prinkllnK All thait I havown«n r.'prot«i«nt
thorn uit.iiiif ill tli<i wator in a nudo lon-
ditioii aiid Honioono fxmrinjf wator uikhi
thom. If iny oppomnit thinRs ihln tho
njfht wav, why doiv't ho priutioo It?
Thoro muHt havo bujon hoiuo chiin;^.<
mndo Hliu-e he dooH not. But at tho
" time of thoBO plcttfreH, a cliantf i had
takv-n pia^" '» t^**^' church aud It took 3 K)
yQara for It to tako plaeo. Thoy <lopart«d
[' Vjfrom th« lawn of Christ. H« rofors back
^'- to tho cloangjng of th« Inter. In I.ov.
14, It s»iv8 : " This shall b«^ tho law of
lopor ; * • * tho prlost shall tako
two birds * * * and codur wood and
scarlet and hyssop »md one of tho birds
shall bo klllod in an oarthon vossel over
' fonnlngwator." Asfor thellvinjf bird,
he stiall take it and thj cedar wood and
the scarlet and the h>Hsop and shall dip
V them and the livlnir bird in tho blood of
the bird that was killed over tho run-
ning water and ho shall sprlnklo upon
him that is to be cleabse.i irom tho lo|>-
rosy seven times. Here we have a type
of the Gospel and of tho plan of salva-
tion. The bird that was killed is a type
of Christ himself. The cedar wood i-o-
representtHl the' cross, the hyssop, the
vinegar that was given to hl and tho
scarlet, the blood that was shed The
llvingo bird represents the sinner who
M^iis to be cleansed by dipping in the
blood and water. Then the leper was
to be sprinkled seven timefti; and if my
bpr^nent wishes to take this as a pi*ce-
diint he must sprinkle seven titles With

■y

wrttur niixod with bliKnl, nn tn.^'o^" not
one case in tho scripture whore |i|)rlnk
ling was to bo ilono with puro water, as
tlio walor was always mixed with iishns
or blood Again ho says, How can the
man comi- out again If liaptiHin wpre-
s.'iitH burial? I have never clalinod that
goiny: Into the wator or coming <mt In
briptlsm. (}<ilngdown inUithe waturis
only a preparatory work. A |M<rson
may fall into the water a hundml times
ami not lie baptlKod. A baptism can

. only tako plaeo by an adnilnistiator
who d(Mfs It in tho name of CJimI. The

^•n^idiciit » muHt go d()wn into the water
beioro-h« l»» In a proper |M)sltion to \w
biptiz(Hl. After thoy are biipti/ed they
walk out of tho water thi'msolvtw. Again
my op|K)nent says that th ' eunuch wai
reading about sprinkling many nations, •
Turn to Acts H, and you will Hnd : "The
place of th(^ Hcriptur » which he road was
this, **Ho was led as a sheftp to the
slaughter and like a larofUumb before
his shearer, soo|Mmed ho iio|hts mouth."
In his humiliation his judarment was
taken away and who shall declare his
generation? for his life is takim from the
earth." t his is found in the .'iShd of Isaiah
audit is In a different chapter that tho^e-
ference to sprinkling of nations occurs.
Now we come to tho chart he used. In
1 cor. 4: 15, we And for In Christ Jesus I
have bejtoiton you through the gospel.
It IS by hearing of tho Wonl that we
wish to convince you In John fl: 8,
''Except a man bo Iwrn again he cAnnot
see the kingdom of Cidd," this is spiritual
birth having soon the kingdom I now
desire lO (wnter it, What shall I do?
Crucify tlVHtl^ mdu. There Is a death
takes place here. - Rom. 6: 6, 7, Know-
ing this that our old man is cruclHed
with him that tho body of sin might be
destrpjed, that henceforth we shonid
not serve sin. For ha that is dmd is
freed from sin. When I see that the
body of sin is anti^gonistic to God and
when I eruclflj' the old man, wha^hali

THW aK)l*Ktt-LEVKU'n)N DKBATK.

I do Willi hhii ? |'„„| nnyn, thoroforo I
■III burlml with iilm l.y iNiptUni Into
d(*nth. \Vli.it do you do with n d(>ii«l
UmIvI' Hury It, mid thnt Ik whiit In to
l>» doiin with tin' iKMly of" hIii. Thi^ now
ninii HppoaiH by ui^inM: bom ,)r the water
Hifd of thu Npirlt. ThuMi- nrt^ not wordn
wrlttrn by mii but by iriin who Im our
•uthorlty in nil thi)rii« thliiy-M. Tll^.m in
no burylnjf with Chilut nnd pulliojf out
HIC«ln. Ifwonni doad with Christ wo
Hh'ill livo with hlui. rt in tho ttpiritual
man tiiHtrlNHHin ('hilHtH kingdom luid
rlm«H In nowfifHH of llfo theti. Tim old
itiiiii In buriod. Koin, 0: 11, fJknwlHo
rockon y»i nlxo vourwUvoM to Ihi d(!Ad In-
d«(K| unto Hin but allvo unto (Jml
through JoMux Chrint our LonL If you
hnv« Im'wii plHiittHl iu likcnutM (frchrirt'H
doath you hIuiII jiIno be in the llkommof
hl« nwirrcction. Hiiro Ih th« old innn
buriod, putaway. John 12: 21, ' Kxcopt
a corn of wluwt fall into tho ground and
dio It abid^th alono ; but if it die, It
brlnfiroth forth much fruit.*' W« do not
pull up ^ain as soon an it Is planted, it
remains In tlio«rround untlltho objoct
Ih accoinplJHht'd for which- It was put
thcnv. Cor. 15-lfi, "Thou fool that which
thou Howest is hot quiukennd except it
al6," *^

Attont dtvcm washing-. Hob. 9; lo,
"Which stood only in meets and drinks
and divers wa8hlng:s, and carnal ordin-
ances, imposed on them uutll the time
of reformation . " The lime of reforma-
tion. that Is when Chrifit should come,
Rom 8: 20, "By the dec^ds of the l\w
shall no flesh be justified." When the
time of reformation came because there
Would he a change of priesthood, Heh.
7:12, there should be,a change of law.
Mark 7: 1-5, the washing of hands, of
cups, pots and bt-azen vessels. Where
washings are tnebtloned In the laws of
MosiBs It means entire immersion. This
is the Htatoment of the (ttost learned
Rftbbis. For if anyone be not washed
•lloverheisstlllin his unclean state. If

flvi-n the tip of the little fintrt-r »M' le'f
out he Is uiicloaii. When the «-han«i;
of r»rl»»Htho«| ninie, thefllverM buptlHms
of the law weni changtMl to one l>ap-
tisin. The gtwiMd is e.ttablJHhefl uud in
It there is only one law, one faith, one
loid, one baptism. Kph. 4: ft. We thid
on one (HTasion the word preaihfid did
iu»go«Ml not iH'Ing mlxiil with faith in
them that hoard. Heb. 4: 2. Then the
argwmciit ".Into." He says "Into dcwM
not mean under. When the object went
Into the water was it under the water ?
The mttin IwKly of water Hnrrounded It.
meant under would he not have
th;« object under (Hm watflr and
ould be ImmerHloit, T care not how
it is done if it is only burled. In atr«tiier
statement he nnuh* It appear that I said
you couhl have a baptism under the
Snrnia tunnel. I Miid It would not )w a
baptism. He spoke of thredneM. The
Egyptians were immerst'd for the salv/j-
tion of (Jod'H peopht. The hogs— In this
case, " Into " means Into— If anyone in.
our day can find a better way to g«»t rf«I
of evil spirits we would like to see it
don*. By my opponent admitting "into »
means under, In this ca^e It proves im-
mersion, but this proposition Is not deal-
ing with the "effect," but with the
••mode." Le^ the effect be what It ma v.
My opponent admits that ^he hogs were
immersed^ rtnd I fm-ther chtim t\uiy w<ire
baptized. Th^n immersion' is Christian
baptism for the swine wenv baptized..
Time expired, i

COOPER^M IBIRD

v-v

BEPLT,

Mr.ChaIRMAN, LV^iElsANDGENTLB-
MKN :— My opponent told you he was not
a Greek scholar, I^ ^ipes not r<*quire
much Greek to undf^rstHnd that I have
not translated the Iwor^s in dispute to^

'^^fk*"'

TlIK C(K)I'KK LKVKKTCJN DKUATK.

tflT h' l«ft

It* chilli^ V
* iMiptlMniN

oiHt hnp-
It'll 'iimI In
laitli, oii«>
W«^ IIikI
irhi4cl (lilt
(i til it h ill

TIm'm iIh'

lllto"<lo«N

ijcrt w»int
»i wntcr ?

)UII<ll>(i it.

not Imvv
Jitflr and
« not how
n nhtitjier
Imt I Mil id
Jiidrr t|iu

not Imi a
'Atal bnp.
'ertt not
rn'Ml and
w. Th«

hPMllVfl-

»— In tliiB
nyonn In.
to gttt rid
to8e<t it
Iff "Into '
OV08 Im-
not doal-
vlth th«
t it may.
•fir« were
i<\y w<«re
/hrlstian
tissed..

REPLT,

lENTLB-

was not
HMjulre
I have

pate to -■>

iull m.viicdf. Anv irtNNjf KiiKllnh IliMn
M'hiilar kiiowH that I lilivit ifiven you.
not iiiv own tranxliielf^n, liut thi> rmu\x
(«f thii n^wiarcli of t\w nioHt hmiiiHt and
thn iiitwt leariiMd Hihl«4 iw-hdlarH of thti
world, aticl I think my IriiMitl know* it
too, a* le;iHr ho ou^ht to know it Th*«
trituhio In, it U a|,rAlnitt lilni and ho can-
not moot tlie arffunicnt ho hii attoniptM
to throw a little diint into your nyoM with
tlui vain hop«< of pnniuitlnjf you from
HHdlnjf how complK^'ly hi» haH falhtl to
prove hiH propoMitlon. It' hi* is not a
(J reek whohir, why dofd Iim nut jr"t a
«p»(*ai rev(\lation to traiifdate the Hlhle
M Joe. Smith dl<l ? He claiiliH thai hin
churoh posHUHium the f^il'tH of revelation,
ylHion and the inti^rpretatlon of tonjfueH
It irt a pity he h not vouch-nafod In thU
Hori) time 4>f need, the interpretation of
ton)CucH But it may be that the Mor-
mon tfod In talkluff, or he In puniuliiff, or
ho lit in a journey, or |M^radv»nture he
Hieepitth and munt be awaked. If the
vernion of Jamen huUb him so well why
do not the falthfnl of hlH church use it ?
Why did Jo;«. Smith g^it a 8p(%ial re-
velation froni heaven to translate th«
Mormon Bible if JamvM's verHlon is so
pel feet? The fact is no p(H)ple ever
found HO much fault witn the Bible as
the MormoiiH, and in a statement of their
cr.sed, they say, ''We l)eliove that in the
Bible Is contained the word of God so far
as it is translated correctly." Thus by
implication my opponents' church denies
th'.i corntctness of the transtatioii of
James's version. I oug-ht to l)o witis-
tted with King James's version of the
Bil»le, if my opponent is, for he is in the
position of Mottier Hubbard. Site went
to the cupl)oard to get her poor dog a
bono, but when she got there the*cup-
board was bare, ^o the iwor dog got
norie.^ My friend wont to the Bible to
And immersion. But he did not And it
aud hS cannot And it be!tween the two
covers of the Bible because it is not there
and he neve/ will And it there.

If my op|Kinent wmiUI only mak** an
ANNertlon and stick to it I w<inld know
when' to And him. In oim* speech he
says a thing and when driven into a
corner in the next M|>etH*h he denies
saying It, and mntrndictN hiniNelf . In
his Afft siMiech he tells us that John Is
to pri'imre the way of the Mrd, now he
tells \ou that it waw not the mission of
.lohn to pn'pare the way of the l.ord and
that Mai. :i: 1 >l does not apply to the
coming of our Ixinl. Ail scholars agrtw
that Mai. •): l-H has reference to Christ
and John the Baptist. TIh' very langu-
ag«^ Is the same. Mai. H: 1. *' Behold I
will MMid my niessager, and he shall
prepare the way iiefore me." Mark l:'i,
"Behold, I send inv inesMenger before
thy face which shall prepare thv way
lHff<a'e thee." Mr. Leverton and the
evangelist MarK thus disagree. I prefer
Mark's statement to that of Mr LevM^-
toll. It would be butter for my opfione^
to acknowledge that he cannot meet the
argument than to make such glaring
blunders. He says he is honest and
wants the truth If he is honest he must
bo very forgetful.

I am surprised to hear the gcnticman
say : "We have it nowhere given in
Scripturtt that 0<st gave man power to
administer the Holy (Jliost." Of course
I |)erfectly agree with him in the state- '
ment but it is contrary to the teaching
of his church. If he will turn to his
creed he will And thlK statement : "We
tielievo that the ordinaces am : (4th)
laying on of hands for the gift of the
Holy Ghost." He has denied the doct-
rine of his church for his church teaches
that God gave man the po^cr to ad-
minister Holy (ihost baptism. He has
gone back on his church and denies
what it claims. I am glaf he has given
up the heresy and I expect he will give
up many more heresies btsfore he gets to
the end of this debate. My argument
w.%8 that, in baptizing with the Holy
Ohoiit, Jesus i^o/nit out, then in baptis-

-■*

Mif ... A f

31)

THB COOPERrLKVERTCiN DKHATK

'ng with ih<* «*l(*in«!iit wntft, mnn outrlii (h«i flrnt niiif w-«oiiii ct^nturiHii refirHiMiit

('hrUl M (w|iMmii It.v imiiMTMlnii V Ro-

in iHiur It out. TIhi nviiiImiI, wntnr Imp
tlmn, ouirht lo vnrn'NixNul to t\w r««l.
Nplrit linptlmii.

My op|MMi<tiit Mtvii, All thHi<iit
thtt iMtmoiiN «ittiii(r ill wntor iiii«l« miil
wMiin 'porMiMi |Nmrin;f wnt t upon tlin
h>A(i. 11(1 ii<liniti> thnt tlit<Mi< plctun<M
nipniiH>iH t\w iMiptlntii by (Niuriiifr hut
iAy« it WAN HtM) ytiiim AfliT Chrlitt mill
that • rhniii^i* hnd tnkitti plnci!. Hint
tbfi church iNM-atiii* n|MNit(itii. In thi«
lUfttMiKilit tho M-vnitl»iiinii Ih (|uitu iiiIm-

HH i

6.V |N)uriiiMr niid not lnuiM<rAfon
npp<mi>nt told 30U thnt thnrn fn»
('i|i«(« of Hpriiikliil)( for 'iAii yonf
("hrint. I now hmK hini to HkMg m aiiif
rniHi of hAptlHin hy iininurMlon lu'fom thi<
tlniHof 'I'itvuIIIaii A. I). *2«iff.!i H«< f«nnot
Mini A NiiiKli* iiiMtAiico of iininiTtion for
thu firiit two huii<lr«Mi yiinrH iittor CliriM^
If hit CAU Irt hill) do it ill hiN iMixt )«|»iMi,
yVltli ihc Mrnt mention «»f liiiincrHioii by

^-- ^ . — thii FAthnw, thiirninthM rtckiinwicdfro-

taken HH ill hiN niAiiy othor AHmirtionA/'yincnt "thAt it in iii«»ri» than our Lord m
Thii uld«mt ri<pr('M<ntAtion of (;hrlii|dMif(|uiri» iii thii KnM|M<i.'' 'rertulliiin iifvor
ImptiHin dAt«*ii liAck to th«i lM>^innUitf H' hurtnl of thn Ninirlo dip iininoriiion of my
till! iHH-ond contury, jiwt iift^r thn ffl^Ath 'Kppoiimit. All tho iiniiKiriilon Im knew
of John, Hiid loKk thAn a tmndr**d ymm Any thiiiff iiliout w<ih triiio iinintM-Hion or

Hftnr thiMloHth of.l«*MUH. It wah found
in tb<t Cha|Md of tlio naptlHtciy in thfl
CAtacoinh of PontianiiH, outnidii thn
Fort^HUfrntDnt (tonin It wnii exhumed
by dM|)pini, At thc> iM^iriniiinff of thti
proMmnri'cntury, nfUir n buriAl of iimiiy
centuri(i«. Tho RiiptiHtury in wliioh it
WAA found WAM UHed for th« puqN)tMi ot^l (
baptitiin in thu dAys of thu hoAthoii \mr^t

NMUtioiiM of tho church. C'hrlMt in rv-
pr«iH»itt«'d AH stAiidinif in the wAtor,
whiht JiQ^n in -. Rtandin^ on the imnk
pouring|«|%||^r on his hend. Th« nnti
quAri >u j^ lKlrtt [j |JgU ^he verv dati; in
lbec4mtu'|^Hl|A|^hi^^intii)(£or en-
gtavlng ^|PM[^||iP^t>><) trhAfActor
d the ^oria^^l^l thiH.dig||bAck
almost to ^i^^(^)sof Johli.'^o you
oan M^e how!Vm'kle88 was the stateinont
of my opponent in gavinn^ it wan three
htmdred yuarH later than Chriat. He
flaya like so many others that the mode
of baptism was hy immersion in tho«e
early days of the church. If they were
immdrsionlsts in the first century, how
did it happen that they all reproHentcd
Christ's baptism by pouriiif^? When
men picture a thing* they always picture
it according' to their idea of thei thing.
Why did not these ancient Christians of
• ■ ■.:'■■■-.■: :.: ■ ■' ■'.■ ■■'/■ .-■A-::- ■ '" '

thr^i^ dip* and the nindidati', naked an
Adam and Kvo befort^ the tali. My
friend told you there wai a chuiiKe in
the third century ill tne tU'Mle of bAp-
tisin, yes tiiere was a eliAiige. It wam
fhnn Mprinkliniror |)ourinir to immer
sion or three dips. JKlMy^n^H Mud a cam^
of ininiersion in^VBHAiAiire of \^^ '
i'liiirch for '20(1 .vJlidHBll'i willjpi^
product) such a tAHIMi^fthnot.

Tlie gentleman told you that the bird
in Lev. 14: IS, diiifMid in the IiIchkI, whh
A ty|)e of the sinner immersiHl. We reply
that he is mlHtaketi and only gives us a
far fetchitd opinion. The leper was a
type of ilie sinner and his cleansing a
type of the cleansing by the baptism of
the Holy (fhost. But the le|)er was not
iminerH(Hl. He Was sprinkled seven
times, Lev. 14: 7." i^

Again he says the eunuch was not
reading Isa, ^ir\b. I pointed out to you
that he was reading a paragraph des-
cribing the hufTerings and work of Christ
and tliitt there were no verses and no
chapters, then in the Bible and though
the whole paragraph is not quoted in
Acts H, yet he inddubtedly read the
whole paragraph and when he carbei to
the text, "So shall he sprinl^le many

»■'

*»

Ion rffirH^iit
•rulnii ? n*i-
fun ti«|)ti«t*(| I

I f !•• fjuinot
iiMTtloii for
iiltitr Clirliit,
IMiXt Hpiici(*ti.
iiMorHioii by
knowlcdiro-
[>ur Lord rn
iilliiin iii'vor
tmloii of my
)ii Im knew
iiinitrHioii or
:«•, linked hh
(hII. Vly

ctmiiKo in
hIh of b«p-

ifC. It WMM

to liniuor
\ Hnd n cnm
i;re of Ulf ,.'

ihiiot'

lat tho bird

bl(KKl, WHH

Wo reply
ffTivoN ua a
tpor wag a
loansiiig a
liaptistii of
M)r wfiH not
(led soven

li was not
out to you
rraph de«-
rkof Ciirist
M*M and no
imi thoug:h
quoted iu
' read the
he earbei to
li^le many

THK (XKH'KlM.KVKim)N DIUUTK'

If uiidnrxKMMl it iiM'aiit \m\. tlnioul, in Ifty Itixt rtiid H4pfl» i»ot rotor

t'wnh litptkiuNi l>v HpfliikiiiiM' to iMipilKiii ttt ail.

Ml l?» ii qiiot i| tr» prov.' liitt |)o«»l Ay:iilii ii«M|iinCiMl THiw3:A.H, 'lit

l/i« Nlmpiy ImjfH tin- «uM-«tloii himI mv^nl uh, by llw wanliitttf of r- gimwrii-^

n«»«UWM'»i llmt liiiiMMriiloii In wilrrr «l to lion and r.iM'wln^ oflhw Holy (Hio«t.'*

Iit«n » lib out iiiiv proof, 'l*b.« OHM \m\f Now tbiM l* no f»'l«'r«n»»'« «* nllUHkm to

*t(ltn' ill tbiM toxt 14 tho r.'nl iMiptlNtn,
that of th(« Holy OlitiNt, and tho biiptiMii
with wiitMr l»« Hunlollf of tln«
r»Mtl 'i'bii iii)nK> of tiNptlNiii In not liap
tirtiii it>«>lf mid tbin tfXt NiiyH not «iii«*
wor I tilHiut iiiodit It Niniply auMcriN tli'it
tlioro Ih oii<> l»iptiNiii witlinut HtalbiK i«>^
it It p'ui'ornn'i. My opiMniont hhKh,

d.iptiMm in tblNtHxt «iAnM<«iid if ilMijni
Wrro an alln»ion to Ku^iiun tl would not
provi' IniiiiiTiiloii V

My upiMiiM'iil tjmitwWwIi. 1<»s VW. Hw
told you iliHt our liiartHiro noti'liMinwid
liy HprinklliiK l'"ul MMfHJnm tlif »on
tr!iry : "liuviuK «•«•'■ '>•*»'»'♦ Hprlitkl«Hi
fniiH an vvll lonm'ii'iun ilMd «Mir liaUM"*

\':

It M pMrlornii'M. ,»iy opiMiunm iihm<, innn hm im II ««Himi« >■» •' •»»•■ "•«' ..„..--
quoTlnif tlii^tuxt, "oiiofaltli, oin< loni, wnMhf<l wltb i urn watfr."^ 'i lio iKWiy )i
oiin Itaptlmn/' with a llourlnb of tiimiipli, wanbvd not iiimiormti. *

aHliiih bocii aMkcd by many b^tfonv How
trail tbcro lauhri'i* baptlHiiiN, HprinklinK.
pouring aii<i iiniiiiTMiiai wlicii tbi<a|MiHtlu
iiayrt tlmro Ih but one ? Yr«, oim baptlHin
ItiiayH, not 01111 niwle of bapilHui, '['Um'
limy Vo but Olio liaptiMin liut many
niodi'M of biiptiMin. A erimimtl wbfii
H:<iit(*nn'd to 1)0 ox»'t'Ut«'d may \w excrut-
od III many ways, 'I'oiixiH-uto Ua v«'rb
of ruHult and tb<-i crimiiial niiiy Iks «X-
** Wuted by lian^nj; or lioKt'adilijf or cm

trrtt'Utlnjf and it would hi (^murd lor any away with wutur "exi-opt

Wti now conn* to liph. Cn sKW*i, "Tiiat
bo iniKiit Minclfy and vIoliiMii) it (tim
rliuirh) witb tbo waHlnnK*8M Wat«'r l»V
tbo word. Now in wlial wmm' <Imm
C'iirUt iluaiiHn tlio ibuin'b liy tb« wanh-
liijjC of wat«r iiy tho word ? pot by im-
im-rM on HHii'ly. In Itov. Iru^Vorcad:
"(Into liim tiiat loved uh and fiaHlud uh
from ourHiiiH in bU own l>|i|d." Ilu)
tuxt has no refuri'iuo to wat# baptlHin
of aiiy kind, for hIiim are n(i| washed

e lUil wauhe
fiiibpniatiea

one to Hay, tbcrti is but on« way to
oxucutn a eiiuiinal. Suppose a man,
tookinj/ at the d(«Ml iioly <if a man bann-
ed or bcilieaded «r ••Uivtroeuted, Hbould
nay bangins: ov b(»liWR^In|f or oleetnM-ut-
liiK iM not ttxecgtion, liotiiiiiM: ix exoeut-
Iny: Imt rtii(Hitiu§, The exetutloiior
would roply well lie is doad any way,
tiie rosult Ih aecOinpliHhtnt. It i» just hh
aliHiinl to say iiotbing: b baptixm liut
ImmorHion. ^^Tbe verli " ba|)ti'/o " Ih a
gtiuork' worn and t!xprt!»»©H rouult or
vondition not modo Where tlio Serlp-
tureH iiidioite the mo<le of liaptism it In
by pouring or Hprinkliiig but tlu! verb
" haptizo " does not nettle the mode not
iHiiiig a model V(!rb.

Now we come to I Coi*. (»: 11, "But ye
arcr wa«ho<i." This proves nothing for
my opponent for baptlHin, much Iubh
Jmtnerslon, is iiot once implied or raen-

ly). Sin cannot lie Washed away and
the chiiriii clean»«<l by tiie hUnni of
Christ and afterwards l>y wattsr. My
oppoiient is fond of <|UotinM: I^ev^ll: IB.
He lias told uh tiin story of tlieftiird in
each Hpeecli so tar and we may «JX|M5ct
to hoar of tliis bird several times Isifore
the deliate cli»ses. He is inistakem, how-
ever alMHit tiie liirtl representing the
sinner immersed. 'I'lie hi|.er represents
tlui Hinnel' or is a tvpe of the sinner.
Tin* leper was sprinkled to cleanse him
and tbishprinkling is called liy l*aui a
baptism. It was symbolic of tin' rw^'
baptism or cluaubing of tiie Holy (jihost.
We now come to the gontloman's great
proof text. He aiiys if there Was nothing
more in tlie Bible than thistext, It would
bo proof enougli for him that tlm mode
biiptiam is by immersion. The text is
John B: 5, "Kxcept « man bo born of

Kir

/I ■ .- II (

■ ui'

THE COOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE.

irotL "tr ^"^ "P J . '\«.r«V" '* ''"**"' uothl,,|r In this t<,xt to prove, lmm«^«(on-

intothe -Kingdom of God." Utu8«x How does inuu...-Hion resmu(,l„ a birth ?

.examine th.sproot t(,xt, Niml.u.us Ouroppoiicu and iinmcrgioniHfs gen -r-

was ,:ruer oftho Jov.s. Ho .-mno to Ally mix upth.,so Hvn.bolK. OM^tim.

Jesus for information. J.«U8 «ald "ox- imn.er^ion r.prcM.nts a birth, anotlu.'

cept a man be born ag-ain. " Nicodomns
did not understand J(?Hii>4. Again Jesus
said "excepta mnn be born of wator
and of the Spirit." NIcodenuw did' not
understand Vet. It was still a inystcrv
to^im. Now If being " [)orn of wafer "
slnjlply meant immersion, and if
as jour oppononf^clainis Johi) had been
imi^ersing multitudes all sumfnei'.
Holw on earth was it that a ruler
of [the Jews did not understand what
Jelus meant ? Surely if -horn of water
isjso simple, ^o plain, he would under-
stind it at once. There is no great
mVstery about immersion. The fact is
"born of water " does no? refer to bap-
tism at all. Is itjriicessaiy that thei-e
should be a birth of water and a birth
of spirit? If it ^- then a man must be
orn again twice. Or is the born of
bter half i^ birth and the birth of spiMt
a half birth and does it require these
two halves put together to make one
)»vhole birth? However- we look at It
jthe explanation is ab.surd. ," Born of
/water and of the spirit" are two phrases
/that mean the safne^ig and are used
i fbr efiiphesis just as our Saviour use.s:
/ yerily. Verily, and just as Jesus savs in
, Matt. 3: 11. "He shall baptjze you "with
the Holy Ghost and witj[i fire." There
are not two baptisms here promised, one
of the Holy Ghost and one of fire. The
two phrasea niean the same thing.
Water i.s used as the symbol of the Spirft
John 7: a7-36, "He that believeth
on me as the Scripture hath said,,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of wate/
(but this spake he of the spirit.)" Water
is thus used by Jesus to symoblize the
spirit and the passage is propsriv inter
preted thus, " Except a man be born of
the * ■

time a burial, again the death of Clirist.
Heing planted. Now how can it repre-
sent all these things? The theory is
utti'riy absurd. My fricml has been
driven to concede that " into"an(l "out
of" do fiot prove; immersion. He mxyn
"I hav(« nevtT claimed that going ' Into"
or coming '-out of" mean baptism " Ho
has surrendered his case conipletelv so
tar as " into "and "out of ' anfconcern-
ed But he still claims that the mean-
ing of "baptizo ' is to immers.} and
nothing else. Now let us examine the
lexicons on this word. I will quote but
» few of the great authorities on
"BaptQ,"tht« root of baptizo. I avIII not
give all they say bu^ a few of fho pri-
mary meanings they attach to the word,
Immersianists claim that the firimarv
meaning of "l)aDfo" is to "dip " ThiH
absurd claim has been made for vears
by the great awd the small, until many
believe it to be true. Let us now look
at some of the best and ablest of the
great lexicons.

Ursinijss Greek Lexicon : "Bapto,"
to stain, dye, wash, cleans/, (abluo), to
sprinkle (aspergo).

Groves, Greek Lfexicon : ^iipto, to

wet, moisten, sprink le, dye, sta1 rt, color.

GA2E8 : Bapto, to stain*; d\e, to pour

any thing into or on any thing, t^ shed

forth.

^ KouMA ; Bapto, shed forth or sprinkle.
Stephanus : Bapto, stain, moisten/
pour upon.

^ I will now give you a fewexamplkof
the e.arlie»t occurrences of the word
"battt^;' that have been found, that vou .
may ^ee how entirly unreliable are the
statements of immersionists who tell you
that it always means in aU Greek liter-

en J^ K-^ of th e s^rit he cannot ature to dip, or immer e . The poet
enter the Kmgdon, of God. There is Homer lived a thousand year^ beE

?r'

tHE COOPKR-LEVEUTON DEBATE.

'ov(vininie«'«(on/
m)il)l(j a biithi'
I'sioniHfK y<'ii 'r-
oIk. ()ii(« tiiiuv

birth, viiiothci'
ioiith of CliriHt.
w can it r«pn^-"
TIk! theoi'v Is
'ml Iian bmiii
uto"nii(l "out
4if)ii. Ho s;vy(4
It <,':oinjf ' Into"
baptism." Ho

completely so
■' anfconcern-
hat the in(?an-

iiumerH»5 mid
s examine tbo
will quote but
uthorities on
zo. I will not
'ew of fho pri-
h to the Avord,

the j^rimarv

"(lip." ThiH
ado for years
I, until many
t us now look
ablest oflhe

n: *'BaptOi"
s.(^abluo), to

1 : B^pto, to

, stalrt, color,

dve, to pour

liHff, t^ shed

1 or sprinkle,
lin, moisten,

examples of
of the word
nd, that you .
Fiblo are the
who tell you
Gr»^ek liter-

Dhrlst He {fives up an cxffmple of
"bapto" in Batrach 5: 218; of a fropf
pierced in battle, he says; "He fell
without even l()okinjf upward, and the
lake ((ibapteto) was tlnjfed with blow!.
H«>re the small deKcate drops of hinoa
that Hpu!i out from the veins of the fro<r,
bapted the lake, a clear case of effusion
or flprinklinfr. Aeschylus, who was
born fiv(( hundrodand twenty nine years
before Christ, ffives us two cases, I will
jfive you one o! them, Prenieth 5: 861;
"This g'arment, stained (ebaphaen) hy
the blood of Aejyisthus, is a witness to
me. " Here the blood , spurts out from
the wound and it spriliklc^ or affuses
the garment, siainjng it.

Aristophanes, who was born four
hundred a,^^ fifty years before' Christ
furnishes tis with a clMi^i'case; Acharn,
Act. 1, Scene 1. "Lpst I stain yoii
(bapsc) with a Sardinian hue (bomma).
Here a bully threatens to strike the other
party on the mouth with hisfirst, the blood
issuing out would stain his face. From
Homer a thou8<and years before Chrtst
up to Hippocrates 430^ B.C. not one case
of compUite immersion even fpr a
moment is ofl'ected by "bapto". For six
hundred years not one of the nriost illus-
trious Greeks gives an example where
bapto means immerse. In no ilistancfl
does it descrtbe the act performed by
immersioniats. It describes affusion.

We shall now give you one example in
the old Testament^ and one in the new,
where bapto occurs. Dan. 4: 33; aftd his
body was wet (ebaptae) with the dew
from heaven"- Dan. 5:21: "and his
body was wet (ebaptae) with the dew
from heaven." The Latin version has it
: sprinkled (perfusam) with the dew from
heaven.'* Daniel was not dipped in the
dew. It fell upon him.

Origin, the most learned of the Latin
scholars renders it: "His body shall
be sprinkled with thedew from heaven"

bloml. In James' version It is dipped
with blood. Dipped is untrue and
absurd. The following versions render
it (bapto) sprinkled. The Sjrrlac, 2nd
century, bapto, 8prinkle<l, The old
Itala, 1st cent , bapto, sprinkled. The
Coptic, 3rd cent, renders it sprinkled.
The Basmnric, ,'lrd cent., renders it
sprinkled. The Sahidic, 2nd cent.,
rendejs \i sprinkled. '1 h<^ Aetbiopic,
4th cent. rend«rs /it sprinkled. The
Lusitanian renders it sprinkled. Iren-
aeua, born foul" yc^ars before the death
of "John renders it, "and ho was clothed
with a vesture sprinkled with blood."
Origin, the most leariKid of the fathers
for sixteen hundred years, renders it
sprinkled . The Oldest and best copy of
the Bible in the world, Tischendorff's
made AD. 325, renders it sprinkle.
The primary meaning of Bapto was to
sprinkle.

I will now quote the lexicons on
"baptize." Immersionists constantly
appeal to the lexicons as final authority
In tlie settlement of this dispute. They
challenge us to produce a single lexicon
that defines "baptize," to pour cr
sprinkle. Some of the leading immer-
sionists have asserted with more boldness
than h on est v that there is not a lexicon
on earth that defines, "baptizo" to poun
or sprinkle. These bold assertions are
repeated from the little miss up to th<'
deacon of four score years, until one is
reminded of a bell-wether sheep. I( fk,
stick IS held up before him and he leaps
over it, and it is taken away, it does not
mat«^er, the other sheep leap too, on they
go, one after another, l)oundiyg through
the air, shaking their foolish tails in
triumph as if they had surmounted a
real barrier. Carson, Campbell, Conant
and others saw barriers in the way of,
pouring and sprinkling. They leaped
oyer these barriers into immersion, down
under the water, Ditzler, Dale, Hughey

:_2j (■

The poet
ears befortt

Rev. 19: 13; "And he was clothed with
a vesture (behammenon) sprinkled with

and others removed the seeming barriers
to sprinkling and pouring. It does not

■W^-'

■"^i^#*

■in

THR COOPKR-LEVEKTON DEBATE.

mnttor, on they go, ono af'tm- Jinotlicr,
plungring- undHr fh(v wnto.r, sliakinf--
their foolish IfRJids in triumph as if they
had oboypd a coinniand. In ()th{||w'onlH
the bold asHtn-tioiisof iiiimc.rsioniHts have,
been refiitted time and aji'-ain, yen tlm
Baptists, Campbelliu'slfTjidtheMormoi's
go right on rHpi-ating the clmlleii«\',
fiijd usa lexicon on the (^arth that delin is
"baptizo," to sprinkle.
'The lexicons J hojj',! qnoto are the
universally recognizcicl standards of
Greek lexicography. 1 sliijl not give
you all the tlefinations of th(^ lexicons
for two reiiflons; first 1 have not the tim<i
a^ I must close .'iooii, and secondly while
X admit that liiany of the lexicons give;
ihimerse as a classic or heathen detina-
tion of "baptizo."Tliey nearly all dis-
tlngnish between the classic or heathen
and the New Testament meaniny of the
word. My object is to meet the chal-
lenge of immersionists and show this
audien(?e the uttin- umidi^bility of their
oft repeated statemi*nf that there is not

brW;

bnptizo, to be sprinkled, slied forWi.

SOHAKTUKNius : Baptizo, to poui'
forth. -

(iKiM.SMAW : Baptize, pouring upon.

Stokius : Quoted so often, sa^s :
''Anciently the water was coupiously
poured upon those baptized." , *

Schlkuh|nfir : Baptizo, to pour forth
abundantly,

Gaze« : Baptizo, shed forth, pour iipj
on. '^

Pakkhurst : Baptizo denotes thii^K^
sionof the Holy Ghost, (for.ancl^^'
the Mater was coupiously poured ^
those who were baptizecL)

Walaeus: Baptizo, sprinkling.

V088IU8 : Baptizo, to sprinkle.

Arst : New Testament meanujg of
baptizo to sprinkle.

SwARZius : Baptizo, to sprinkle, to
pour.

Ed. Leigh 's Critica Sacr a : Baptizo,
to sprinkle or cleanse the body or any
onesacramentally (.Matt. 3: 11.)

ScHNBiDEU : One of the best classic

ii.'zm^rL""""'"""- ■"^"'•^-■' 'e^:=uS.-,^pC;,s:

: to poUrpr. sprinkle

Julianus, lived in the fourth century
after Ch ii.st,and wasone of the most acute
and profoundly verswl Bible scholars of
his time. He did not write a lexicon
yet he is equal to lexical authority on
this word He says; baptizo means to
sprinle.

AuusTiXE, of the .same century and
one of the most illustrious of the Latin
fathers, admits the correctness of
Julianus, defination that 'baptizo". means
to sprinkle, thpugh he AVas opposed to
him^ininanythihgs^^ '

Tebtullian, A.D. 190 to 220, render.s
baptizo, to sprinkle.

Enthvmius, 4th century, baptizo, to
sprinkle, _^ r

Codex SiNAmcm, baptizo. to
sprinkle. '

— Coim^t

shed forth, sprinkle.

WoLPiiTS : BuptizdV (Luke 11: 38)
means washing done by sprinkling.

PassoW : The gireat master critic of
classic lexicons, Baptizo, to moisten, to
wet, sprirkle. -

RosT AND Palm'': In three vols, the
latest save Pape, baptizo, tb moisten, to
wet, to sprinkle,

Pape :3aptizo, to moisten or wet ; to
sprinkle or pour upon. "

In the light of these facts What are'
we to think of rny opponent's proposi
tion and ^he stand he iias ta'kon. What
are we to think of the bold an^ reckless
assertion that no lexicon on earth deflnes
baptizo, to sprinkle ? VSihen Ave produce
the lexicons, our opponents resort to the
faATorite dodge of saying. Oh, those are'
metaphorical meanings. But they are

ATiOAKim, baptizo; io not, they are primary and literal mean-

Mb. Ch

IBN:— Y{

IcrAnslatic

lence thi

lliscussioi

llHOSt of h

IS, We
translate
iBible, I
jpassageH
that ther
by poop
Turn to I
bnrie^d w
that, like
dead *
in newni
savs thi«
the whol
water an
In Col. 2
in baptii
with him
water at
The*V«n<
manifest
ling befi

Tbev ha

■ ■% ■ .

cleansiui
the watt
was a Jc
Rom. 4:
manner <
aud^raii
impliesa
is a str(
Nearly
idea tha
says it ;
apostle I
verse ca
take it I
ference 1
the auth

sprinkle.

KoukA, a native Greek of this cent.

ings. (Tiiiffe expired.)

Smith, \
Han, Wi

SSt-^^i**''-'-**

V'W™ v- 'I'"* *f ■

;'.''.''"■ ,;

l\:-

wWi

^ forWi.
o, to poui'

iii»«- upon,
ften, HH^M :
< coiipiously

) pour forth

th, po'ir u

)tt'8 tho?

poured !<»

ikliiig.
iikle.
meaning' of

sprinkle, to

A : Baptize,
odyor any

11)

)e8t classic

!0, moisten,

ke 11: as)
ikling'.
ar critic of
tnoisten, to

3 vols, the
nuisten, to

or >vet ; to

^v^^hat are
's proposi-
on. What
i^ reckless
rth defines
ve produce
sort to the
, those are -
t they are
iral mean-

THR C(X)PER-LKVERTON DEBATK-

2f)

IR; lEVERTOmODRTH SPEECH.

Mb. Chairman, Ladieh AKnfiKNTiiE-
EN:— You will observe that the En}»"liHh
ranslation of the Bible was to b»' tlie evi-
enco that we are to rt'ly upon hi this
iiscuasion, but.,mv friend has taken up
Host of his time in translating Greek to
s. We must have had very stupid
ranslators to ffiye us such an inipcrfect
iBible. He does not adiiiit of any of the
passaeeH beinff in our favor. He says
that there are many misquotations made
by people in support of innnersion.
Turn to Kom. 6: 4. "Therefore we are
bnrie^d with him by baptism into death,
that, like as Chri.st was raised from the
dead * * * even so we should walk
in newness of life." Dr. Adam Clark
savs this has reference to immersion,'
the whole man being planted into the
water and rising out of it t^ a new life.
In Gol. 2: 12 Wte rea'd, "Buried with him
in baptism wberein ye are also risen
with him." The person is buried in the
wateir as Christ was under the earth.
The^ncient manner of baptism is as
manifestly given here as that of spiiuk-
ling before eating, etc. is elsewhere
Thev had to wash at such times, but for
cleansing thev had to be planted mto
the water: Lightfoot says that dipping
was a Jewish custom. In this passage,
Rom. 4: 6, the apostle alludes to the
manner of putting people into the water
aud^ raising them up aga|n . Bury ing
implies attaining an end : "To be buried
is a stronger exptression than to die.''
Nearly all commentators support the
idea that this means bi^ptism. Barn«8
says it is altbgether probable that the
apostle had theideaof innnorsion. This
verse ca!mot be understood unless we
take it to mean immersioui With re-
ference to Kom. 6: 4, Col 2; 12 we have
the authority of Dr. Doddridge, Bishop

Dr^ Adam Clark says :— " We are
bul'ied, '^K. It Is probable that the apost-
le here alPndes to the modi'! of baptising
by immersion, the whole body being put
und«fr water, which s<H"imed to say the
'"Wmn is drowned, dead ; and as he came ,,
up out of the water, he seemed to havt"
n resurrection p life." So also in Col-
2: 12 he says :— "Buried, alludlrg to
inmiersion in the case of adults " Mr.
Benson, in commenting on Rom. (!: 4,
says :— "We areluri'd, &i., alluding
to the ancient manner of baptising by
immersion."

Dr. Kleelwrge the 'Jewish iCabbi,
says:— The Jews, before eating and
jwayer, after rising in the morning, they
washed ; when they becrome unclean
they must immerse." -

Schaff saiys : --"All, commentators of
note, ejccepi Stuart and Hodge expressly
admit, or take it for granted that in
, this verse, the ancient pi'evailing mode
pf baptism by immersion is implied as
giving additional force to* the idea of the .
going down of Jhe old^ ajjd rising up of
the new man." ' ,

Bloomtield says r—^ "There is a plahi
allusion to the ancient motle of baptism
by immersion^"^

' Barnes :— '* It is altbgether probable
that the apostle had altusibn to tl»e cus-
tom of baptising l^- immersion."

Doddridge :— "It seenis to me the part
of candor to confess that here is an allu-
sion to the manner of baptising by im-
mersion. ' -

Whitfteld :— " It is certain that in the
words of bur text, Rom. 6: 4, there is an
allusion to the manner of baptising,
which was by Immersion,"

Calvin :--"FrOm the words, John 3:23,
it may btf inferred that baptism, was
admipistered by plunging the whole
body Mnder water." ; -

Dean Stanley :-^' There can be no
jquestjon that the original form of bap- .

Smith, W h itfield^ Bishop Tolsen, Tertul.
Han, Wm. Smith, Meyer and others.

tism, and the very meaning of the word
was complete immersion."

...,.,.

2fi

THE COOPEK-I,J';V EUTON DEBATE.

Thiri id the opinion of nil thoMV>lcai]|iied
men. It was the Ancient way but there
was a ohangre, that waB what was
meant by the apostle when he said ; the
earth is turned upside down ; because
they have chang^Hl the law and the
covenant.

The law was given in Matt. 28: 19-20,

not say how often it is translated "into' .
It is translated "into" of tener than any
oth 'r way. I do not expect you to be-
li'jve what 1 8<iy because p6pujar opinion
to day is in favor of sprinkiinfif. fTinjc
expired.]

■ ■ ♦♦♦♦♦♦ ,

Go ye therefore and teach all nations, MR. COOPER'S CLOSING REFLT.

baptising them in the name of the Father
and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost,
teaching them to observe all things
whatsoever I have commanded you; and
lo I am with you ovn unto the end of
the world." God has promised to be with
his people, an.i if the v ob<?y the laws
there laid down they will receive the
premise, otherwise they cannot. I love
mv^'fellowmen whether they Im'e me or
nor and what I want to get at is the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but
the truth. I showed you that the co\^er-
ingof the earth was the inmiersion, but
m.V opponent applies the figure to the
condition of the eight suuls who were
baptized by keeping out of water. I
showed that Jesus went through the
door when he was baptised, ihat it was
n burial in the likeness of His death.
We .'ind the early historians saying tJiat
'baptizo" means immersion,consequently
i say aiid affirm that the Christian mode
was by immersion. If you take my op
ponent's argument in oppositio.i to that
of the many learned men that I hiVv^
given you, you may do so, but^l will not
pin my faith to him. He said last night
that the river Jordan was so swift that
it would be unsafe to go into it.

James says it was not so swift but he
could have a row on it. Naaman was
told to dip in it seven times. "Th<;n went
he down and dioped himself .seven times
in Jordan." I do not care whether *vou
pour water on the man until he is im-
mersed, it makes no difference. In

Mr. Chairman, Ladiks and Gentle-
men : -I rise to closij the debate on this
proi^osition My friend, Mr. Leverton,
has loft his authorities for the last
speech, but 1 shall examine theni,

Mr. Wesley is misrepresented by my
opponert as most of the authorities ho
quotes are. The comment on Komnns
6: 3-5, Coll. 2: 11-12, which he quoted as
from Wesley is a comment originally
made by Bengelius and was simply
translated by Wesley, but was not Wes-
ley's sentiment. I will quote Wesley
correctly for you. "It is true, we read of
being "buried with Christ in baptism."
But nothing can be inferred from such a
figurative expression. Nay, if it hsld
exactly, it would make as much for
sprinkling, as for plunging; since, in
burying, the body is not plunged through
the isubstanceof the earth, but rather
the earth is poured or sprinkled upon it.
And at there is no clear proof of dipping
in Scripture, so there is^ery probable
proof of the contrary." i

Clark and Benson simply transcribed
the note of Bengelius translated by |
Wesley. Neither of them practiced im-'
mersion,

A. Clark says, ^fter quoting T Cor.
10: 1-2 and arguing that the baptism of
the Israelities in the cloud was by
sprinkling. "It follows, then, that St.
Paul being the judge, to be sprinkled is
to be baptized." A. Clarok thinks that
St. Paul said "the Israelities were baptiz-

some circumstances that would be hard
to dOi My opponent said "en" Avas
transla ted "to" so many times.but he did

ed in the cloud with the express purpose
to terminate a vexatious dispute," that
is to show that the mode is by sprinkling.

TH E COOPER- LE VERTON DEBATE.

97 -■'

iHlnted "into",
nier tlinii any
Bft you to b("
6puJar opinion
kllnpf. fTlnjc

NO REPLY.

andGentle-
liubatc on this
ill*. Leverton,

for the last
H theni.
i8«nted by my
inthorities he
t on Kornnns
he quoted nn
^nt oiig'jnally

was simply
was not Wes-
luote Wesley
ue, we read of
', in baptism."
dfrom such a
ly, ifit hsld
as much for
ng; since, in
inged through
1, but rather
ikled upon it.
aoi of dipping-
ery probable

y transcribed
anslated by j
practiced im-

ioting l" Cor.
le baptism of
^UQ was by
lien, that St.
e sprinkled is
i thinks that
iwerebaptiz-

ScHAFi' did not practice immersion.
In his comments on Rom. (J: 4, he sayg :
"The efficacy of iho sacrament does not
depend u»H>n the quantity or the quality
of water nor ui>on th(^ inodeofifs nn-
plication."

Baknem is misrepresented. He was
not an immersionist. He savs in hfs
note on Matt. 8: «j, " It cannot bcvproved
from an examination of the passngvK in
^he 0ldand New Testament, that the
idea of ft complete immersion ever was
connected with the word, or that it ever
.In any case occurred."

Calvin did not immerse and is mis-
represented also. He says :— "Whether
the person baptized is to be whollv im-
mersed, and that whether once or thrice,
or whether he is only to be sprinkled
with water, is not of the least conse-
quence. ' Calvip does not support his
proposition of immersion only.

Bejsa taught that .^ohn the Baptist
I)oured water on the people in baptism.
Bloompield is misrepresented. He
says on Acts fi: 88, '^Philip seems to have
taken up tl^ water with his hands and
pouted' it copiously on the eunuch's
head.";JMark 7:4, he urges does not
imply immersion. ■^

LiOHTFOOT is misrepresented also.
He says the word "baptismous," proper
ly and strictly is not to be t^iken of dip-
Ing or plunging. , I ut in respect of some-
things washing only and in respect of
others, sprinkling only, (note on Mark
7:4).

Doddridge says in his comment on
the baptism of Cornelius, "According to
this vietvtho most natural supposition is
that they were baptized bv rourine" or
sprinkling/' "> * ._,

Dr. Kleeburgb w;as too ybUng a
man to l^ an authority oti Jewish bap-
tisms. He still lives if he has not died

s ince 1 8 70 and knows no more about
baptism than any other wdinary Jew
Neither Whitefield nor Dean
Standby practiced immersion. They

admltted it as valid but hell that bap-
tism by sprinkling was equally valid and
they both practicid ' baptism by sprinkl-

In reply to my argimient that the
Jordan Was too swift to stand in and
baptize m many as went out to J©hn for
baptism. My opponent Kays Kaaman
went and dipped in .Jordan sevei. times,
I showed you that the-law of cleansing
the le|)er was by sprinkling. Lev. 14:7,
and that Naaman did not dive under the
.Jordan seven tinw's. He simply dipped
his hand in the water and sprinkliBd
himself. The disease was local, not of
the whole body. "And strike his hand
over the place and recover the leper.'*
Naaman was told to go and wash (He-
brew' "rachats ; which never means im-
merse or dip, but to po"ront, drip) seven •
times in Jordan. He went and did as
he was commanded, dipped (Hebrew,
"tabhal", which all great authorities teU
us is used where the object Is merely
touched by the liquid in part or iti
whole, and which primarily means to "
sprinkle.) The Septuagent renders
"tabhar by Baptizo here, but in Gen.
.87: 81, the Septuagent renders "tabhal",
"nioluno", showing that '^baptizo" and
moluno are interchangeable and all will
concede that moluno means to sprinkje.
My opponent comes back to Roma*nB
6: 8-,5 and asks what viredo with a corpse.
He says we burv it and he told you that
is what he does with the body of sin
when he immerses a man. He told .tou
^hat the old inan ifi buried, but when my
friend puts a man under water and pulls
him outagain,itisthe same old man,
flesh and blood that he put under the
water. The water^did not wash away
any^sin and there is no body of sin left
in the water. This does not represent
Christ's death and burlap Christ did ,

not die under water but upon a cross.
Christ was not buried in water but in a
stone sepulchre. This cannot be taken
literally any mofj' than the statement,

■■ 5-

.. H

press purpose
lispute," that
ty sprinkling.

.; »

" 1 *'

f V

'■'■f::V'..\

"/'■^^^Ifc

THE COOPKRLEVRRTON DEBATE.

:;we«reeruc.«..iwHhChrisr- We ^^Tt^:^-?^^^^^^

are not literally cruciHed, n"»«f « ^ ^^X" to w««h, or to cleann. or to

cro«,. We are notjltera.ly p)a'^^^'^ «« Si /-Greenfield, Green, rii-kerlng.

«;orn' or potatoes. There l« no reHcinbl

ance between planting corn ami imnier-

•ionor dippinK, When my Wo^d dli*

a person he pulls him out of ttie water.

When he plants corn he dot^s not cover

it UP for a second and then tal^e it out

again. If this ordinance is to show

forth lh« death of Christ tlieh we have

two ordinances to «how fonh the same

thing, for the apostle sayfl, 1 Cor. li: ^,

"For as often as ye eat this bread, and

drink this cup. ye do show the Lords

death till he cH)aie." We thus have no

purify :-Oreenfield, Green. l^»-kerU.g,,
Groves. Robinsori, Donnegau. and Sch-
revellus. Now how w««7»« ""« P*;;"
formed of the hand«? '2r.d Kings ».U.
"Here Is EUsha, the sou ofShaphat that

poured water upon the handn of B.lUft>V

How is cleansing performed m the
Bible? Numbers 8:.7. "And thus shalt
thou do unto them to cU'anse them :
"sprinkle" water of purifying upon
them." To purity is a defliiation of bap-
tlzo How was purifying p<irformedi'
Numbers 19: 19, "And the clean person

death tlllhecH>«ie," We thus have no ^n rprinkje upon the unclean *
ordinaiH^e tor^present thework of the ^^^^j'jji;;'*'^, J,,,^ d*.v he shall

Holv Ghost. ^ , .

l"Bhawedyouth..t the Jews washed

their hands before eating. Mark 7: 1, 8,
Luke 11: 38 And that this washing of
the hands was called a baptism by Luke.
Mv friend pretends to quote Maimonides
toVrove that they completely immersed
tUgfnselves before eating. But Maim-
onides does not say they completely im-
mersed themselves betbre eating. He

and orthVsev^nthdiv he shall purify
himself." All these washings, dean-
ings and purifications were called by an ,
inspired a,x,stle, "Diver's Baptisms

Heb. 9:10. ' , ..

Immersionlsts also constantly quote .

the. histories to confirm their theory.

Let us examine some of them, bchatt,

a ffr«at «hurch historian, says (Lauge,

- .^ „^^ ftJm 6- 4) '^the efficacy of the Pacra-

mersed themselves before eating. Hr *^°"™' ,^^*;„^ ^ end ^

is speaking of e.traorainary d.^l.m -t -"^^^tf Water, nor upon the mode

««*! «av8 thev wer^ i-equired to wr.sn me 4"" - »;^« »

:Sl:rs a"--, ^n «:r "'^S^H?^ist..P.197)-ys:Man.

not say they i"'«'«>««d Imt hat th^^, .^^erstitious persons Imagine, from at-

washed. Hhe had said they •^minsca » J o much importance to exter-

themselves that wouW. not make it so. ^^^"^^ ^^^ ^v sprinkling was not

He lived eleven hundred years too late "Jl^' T Tj^.^^e condemns and prpnoun-
to know of what he speaks.^ He was an .valid. _

Arab and converted to Judaism in he ces^^^ history of the churchy is a

twelfth century after Christ Ur^J^"'/ standard work and used in many theolo-

the most learned of Baptists m llabbmie «*^^f^^^^^^^^ He says (Ancient Church

literature-says: Maimonides was ^«'- gf^' ^v ^Sec. 3rd. chap. 2. page 196)

fectly besotted in the i'';«/'«'""« ;" Thl g^ript^^^-'^ ^"^^^ no very specific

which their boasted knowledge chiefly '^^J^^^^ ^, ^^ t^e mode of baptism

consists and consequently , even he can- J^Sir i^v ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^

notbemueMependedon;be8idesl)e.hved ^^^^^ ^^^^ translated baptize in our

about six hundred years ago authorized version always signifies to

■ waspraoticed author^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^ ^

clearly shown, to be incorrect and ttiat
baptism does not necessarily irtiply dip-
ping The ordinance was intended to

therefo r e could know what was practiced

*no l>ettev than

in our SaviDur;8 day
many can Itnownpw.

It must be remembered that the lexi-
cons give perhaps twenty meaning- when

ed. '
prove I

."' ».'»«*.

"'•-'"■;• ;'".:^V^ ■

ilnjf of
( or to

(id Sch-
i^ per-

iHt thiit
KUjah."

ill the
IH Hhalt

them :
jr upon
I of bap- ^
'ormed ?
n person

♦ ♦ *

1 purify
, clean-
ed by an,
iptisins "

y quot6 ,
theory.
Schaff,
(Lauge,
le pacra-
Fintitv oi-
the mode

^'g : Many,
from at-
to exter-
s was not
, prpnoun-

urch is a
ny theolo-
tit Church
page 196)
ry specific
>{ baptism
I that the
ize in our
ignifies to
has b e en

THE COOFER-LEVEHTONVDEBATE.

convey the Idea of wHshhip or purirving,
and it is obviouK that wator may be
applied In innny ways uh ». ineaiis of
ablution."

My f riotid thinkh that the early fatiwrs
sustain him, but they do not. I will
quote « few of the in. I might quote
many more bnt my time is limited Hiid
these will enable you to see that he is
Biistaken

Jkhomb, v;. 341, a42. "And I wllJ
pour out upon vou clean out * * *
so that upon the belitfving and those
converted, T will pour out the clean
water of saving baptism.

meaning and that to immerse.^ He has
l)een forced to admit that it has many
meanings. . He came to prove that the
mode is by immersion only, that there is
one specific act required and that is dip.
I compelled him to admit that a man
may lie down in a tank and have Water
poured upon him until he immmersed
and no dip take place, that the candi-
date iKted not be Jiandled, that l)apti8m
denot<!8 a result, a coiHlition not an act.
He appealed to .fohn's baptism in
Jordan, at Aenon, I followed him and
showed you that John did not immerae.
He appealed to the baptism of our Savi-

Hir.AHVi.2H8.>^»jy^ "But sprinkling our. I sliowed vou tliat our Saviour

according to the law was the cleansing
of sin, through faith purifying the
people by the sprinkibg of blood (Psa.
60: 9); A sacrament of the future sprink-
ling by the blopd of the Lord."
> DiDYMus Am3x., 71.S saVs : "And the
ver^- image of l)aptiim bot^ continually
liruminfttHtl^and saled Israel at that
time— as Paul Wrote (1 Cor.^ lo: (1, 2);
and as prophesied" by fczek. H(>: 'Is, 2«.
"I will sprinkle clean water upon you,"
and David (I'sa. .f)!: 7) ''Purge me with
hyssop and I shall he clean. "

CvKiL of Jerusalem. 4ia; says : "Thou
seest the po^'er of baptism * * * Ho
will sprinkle upon you clean water."

Cypuian savs, 1()82 : But it is necessa-
ry that the water be first purilied and
sanctified i)y the priest', that it may be
able by its own l>apti8m tq wipe off the
sins of the baptized man, and through
Ezek. the prophet, the Lord says : "I
will sprinkle .you with pure water."

No Latin father, during the first two
hundred and fifty years of the church
ever rendered '"aptizoby"immergo,"nor
is thi^ro. a Greek tiiat during,that time
ever rendsred baptizo by Kataduo, im-
nierfie. It was not until after the third
century that those t e rms wei-e int r oduc-

M'as not immersed, that ho stood in the
water while John poured the water upon
his head. He next appealed to the
eunuch's bapiism but was comi)elIed to
surrender the case admitting that 'into"
and "outof " do not imply immersion^.
He appealed to John 3: 5, to Itomans
(5: 3-5, Coll. 2: 11-12. I showed yotrthat
tliese texts had no reference whatever
to water baptism, not a single father,
Latin or Greek, fejyriac, or Arabic, for
th(v first three centuries ever refers to
Rom. 6: 3-5; Coll. 2:12, "Buried by bap-
tism into death, "as water baptism. He
appeale:l to Wesley, Clark, Bcza iand
many others but I showed you that
these authors were all misrepresented.
His texts have all failed him. (1) I show-
ed the diffi^rence all the lexicons make
between the classical and New Testa-
ment meaning of baptize. ' During a
certain limit(Hl period of Greek history
baptize signifies to put under, sink and
to drown and during that time in all
cases of baptism the thing or person was
put down under and left at the bottom.
In the New Testament baptizo never
means to drown. 1 1 mear.s a change of
condition. (2) I next showed .you that

in Mark 7: 3, and Luke 11: 88, where

waehing before eating is spoken of,

that in Mark " nipto" is used, in Luke

"baptizo" is used, showing that"nipto"

; and that
iitiply dip-
inteuded to

ed.

J\i1.y opponent came a long way to
prove to you that baptiSb has but one

■■■ .: . - ■ ■■'

■ : :■ ■ .'f-'T'iHr'',-

-■'

►v!l.-

i^'-l'^-X^. '»■;;,; J ^ .■WW-,'**.?,

TH K CCX)I*tiR-LK V KiriX)N DEftATK;

niid "littptiKo" arc interchaiigonblu.
Washinu- of haiulH in callud bHptiHni and
wa8 |>f)rionnu(l by |K)ui-ln{|^ wator upon
the hand 2nd. Kln^jn 3: 11. Th«io waa
no imintrHian. (IJ) I ii«xt Hhowod you
that in Mark 7: 4, th i hiptUin of bitilH
(KUnoOn) inakoD iniinurHion utterly ini-
posdibln. . .^

(4) I took up th(^ baptlRtn of Ifirapl \n
the sea ind intiiu cloud. 1 Cor. It): 1-!
Exod. 14: l(>-22 and Phr, 66: 7-10; Ps
77: 16-20 I ahowcd you that Inrrtol w^ft
baptized by the raui flprinklin^f down
from ths cloud upon them, and thii
Egyptia ris iverc immersed, not Imptl zed

Exod
merged"
in Greek
laraeliti

1,4,5,10, "They wefe im^.
(tabha in Hebrew; kataduHan
; submersi Hunt in Latin.) The
8 were baptized, the Ejfyptiana
and their

immersion

er8:2li
tizcd b^

wore inimerHOd
proved fatal.

(6) I snowed you that in 1 Peter
Moah and his family were bapt
keeping them out of the water, for ^ey
ro.le upon the top of it, and that the
Antedeluvians were inimerBed. The
immersion^was fatal! j||k
. .1 Hhowed yau that Vpiswine wf/re,
immersed and it was fatal to them. My
friend thinks the drowing of the swine
was a baptism. If he were to baptfize
by drowning which was the meaning of
the word frequently in classic or heathen
Greek, he would not get rtiany eonyetts

(6) I showed you that many of th«
lexicQiis give wash, cleanse and purify
as New Testament meaiiingspf thaword
baptizQ and in H^b. 9: lo, Paul shows
Qs that all the Jewish puriKcations,
washings and,cleansings were by sprink-
ling.

(7) I then took up the case of the
baptism of the spirit and showed you

that God in baptizing with the spirit
represinits it as "defending" John I: B2
pouring Acts 2: 17; *' shedding forth"
Acts 2: 83. "falling upoa*"Act« 11:15;
*Wming upon" Acts I: 8. "sent from on
hiWh," Luke 24:49, "Given to," Acts
15:\8, "Breath(!d on," John 20: 22. I
shoW(>d you that if the Holy Ghost bap
ti8in\i« l)y pouring thiMi baptism with
water, the symbol ol real baptism
Hhould\ bj by pourin<jr or sprinkling. I
quoted the lexicons on "bapto" and on
"baptizd" My friend has not attempted
to reply t^ my argument, from the lexi-
cons. I tkhowed you that my friend
misrepreseiitcd tht» authorities he quot-
eil, I ^0 not f^iy wilfully for he no doubt
has been decblyed

n my time permitted it I woald more
fully quote the gt^eat scholars but I have
J think said enough to convince you that
immersion is not fi^und in the Bible. I
believe I hare presented my arguments
so as to convince even my opiwnents.
My opponent says he c^bes not expect you
to believe him. His\ arguments must
be weak indeed, and the foundation
shakey when, after coming so far and
doing* his best, not only his best, but the
best that can l)e done ty the aid of two
i or three elders who- haye been with him
constantly to aid or heTp him in Ihis de-
bate, he does not expect you to believe

Mm. *■ . '.

LadTei andG€«itlenien, I now leave
this question with you. T Ihrank^^ou
for the very close attention you have
given me d'lring th^ discussion of this
question and hope it will prove^ benefi-
cial to you all in helping you to solve
the vexed question, the mode of bap-
tism. [Time expired.]. '

■'''^t'

I thu itpirit
John 1: H'i
rtff forth "
ActHll: 1ft;
lit from oil

to," Acta
i'iO: 2'2. I

Oho9t hap
iptiHtn with
.( hnptiriin
-inkliuff. I
)to" atHl on
t attempted
mi the lux i-

my friend
ius he qiiot-
le no doubt

would more
i hut I have
ice you that
16 Bible. I
ni-^uments
0p(X)nent8.
I expect you
iients must
foundation
80 far and
est, but the
aid of two
n with him
I in Ihis de-
to believe

now leave
llraTiic yott-
you. have
lion of this
ove^benefl-
ou to solve
de of bap-

USTFJ^ISTT BJ^I=>TIS2s/i:.

SECOND PROPOSITION FOR DISCUSSION.

Infant IUptism is of Bible Authority.

SK(X)ND KVENINO.

Hfl. COOPER'S FIRST SPEECH.

Mr. Chairman, Laoirs AND Gbntlb-
iiENi-^The qu<;stion Inifore "s in an im-
portant one and involves the ^rent fun-
damental doctrines of Christidhity. Let
^8 enter upon the discussion of It with a
sincere desire to know the whole t>uth
and to this end let us as farns possible
divest ourselves of all prejudice.

I am glad that my opponent is a man
of yeai-8 and experience and that ho has
able asinistnnce in his brother elders
who have come here to hblp him^present
his side of the question. If my oppo-
nent with the able assistance he has
secured, cannot overthrow my arffu-
ments, ray position is established be-

J^^l^-^**^''- I^ proving this proposition
I shairiiresenrTo^lwr tlwr fV^^
arguments :— '

- 1. The church of God \3 the same
throu^ht all dispensations. God put
infant children into his church. Infant
children are still in the church, unless
it can be proved that God put them out

. or authcriised some one else to put them

out.

2. That baptism was instituted for
the same end and in the place of cii*-
cumcision. Circumcision was admini-
stered to infants. It foilows that the

above proposition being tru^*, baptism
should Im) administered to infants.

rt. The covenant of circumcision is the
covenant of grace. Infants were in-
cluded in this covenant and the seal of
the covenant which was circumcision,
was by divine command administered to
infants. Baptism wh<ch is in the room
and place of circumcision, is the seal
of that covenant under the new dispen-
sation as circumcision was under the
ol|l It follows that baptism should be
admTnistcred to infants.
• 4.. That the commission to the apostles,
Matt. 28: 19 20, the only authority we
have for baptizing any one, included
infants, from the fact that thonpustlefi
who perfectly understood it and followed
its instructions, baptized infants oirthe
day of Pentecost when Peter opened the
doors, of t^^^^^^ invited the

nations into it Tndffom that day cftn-
tiiiu(}d to baptize whole families or
households including infants ^

5. The history of the elfhrch furnishes
us with the most absolute and convinc-
ing proof that infants have Iteen received
into the Church of God by baptism from
the days of the apostles, down to the

;i n

■ 1,

. 0:

: 'r

present time.

First, the Church of God is the same
through all dispensiatlpns. 'I here are
those who believe that Ood had no

tn R COOPKR LK V KRTON DKBATK.

church u|ioii thcMmnh until INMitcvoMt, it
period of HOiiio loui' thouHiiiKl yciirH.
ThiH iH II uiiHtuko. .Tho Cliurch of (iiiit
wan not oiXHiiixoti on th(^ <1iiy of Pi'iitC"
cottt. Will thoNu* who l)oli(ivo It wiih
p«>int out to UH tho chiiptor iMi<l vci-ho
wliich rc^cord H'.rch hii or;t-Hiti/iitioii ?
That tliu church oxiHtt^l piTviouH to
FontflcoHt thoiHt Ih iiliuiulaiil (iroof. ActM
7? 88, "ThlH iH ho, that w.ih in tho churili
in th(! wil(|(*i'n('NH with th(; an^ci whicli
f>ptiko to him in tho mount Sinn, niid
with our ifttli(ir»; whorwoivcd tlio livdly
oraclflH to g-iv'* unto us." Tiiirt provos
that th(f Church oxintod hundrodH of
yoarH biifoni jNintocoHt.

This Church poHH:^8H(>d all tlio char-
act(;ristics that thw church to-day posst^H-
8e8.

1. Tho Lord was with thu Church in
the wildcrneaa. Acts 7: 8H.

2. Th(i Holy Spirit wAs with tho
Church. Acts 7: 51 ; Num. 11: 25-29; Ne-
hom. 9: 20; Isa. 08: 7-ll;2 Chron. 20: Ift-
14.

B. Thifl Church had laws from the
raouthof the. Lord, N«h. 9: 12-14. '."

4. This Church had a place of Divine
worship, Acts 7: 41.

5. In it there was tho rcadinjg^ of God's
word, Nch. 9: 8.

6. In it the people sanjf God's praises,
Psa. 22: 22.

7. It had divinely appointed tcAchers.

8. It had faith, Exod. 4: 31; 2|Chron.
20: 20.

9. In it repentance was taught, Ezofev
83:20. V - V ^

10. In it there Avere ordinances, cir-
cumcision and the pa8,sovor, HomanH
2: 28, 29; Rom. 4: 11 ; Dent, lO: 1(5; Acts
'7:B1. -* ■ ' --' ;■: ■ -

il. God's people tordoy are called the
"eccle8ia"or Church, God's people were
called an " e cclesia" o r Church in 2nd.

Kin i«lto the li^^it of rifrhtcoUNneNH.
Wlieiiever, (}(kI ca'h'd' out a |mrent, lie
hIho caliiMiput his child. In G(ui. 17: 17,
infants are Hpccilit'd. CknI said to Noah :
"Come thou and all thy hoani', ' Gen.
7: I. The Church In the^ «wildt'riii'HM
consiHted of <l M),iM)() men h'i>N|tL'«it womeii
and cliildnni. Acts 7: J<K ;-^rn. 1: M».
In the renet^al of (Joel's onV'^nant with
Israeli, children are included' J )eut. 2J:
lO-LJj. "Ye stand this day all of you, be-
fore the' Lord your God; your o^ptains

♦ vour "little ones

n » ' » MT

your

wlHiis^* ,• 'x tltat tilou shonldest enter
Into covenaiit -with the liord thy God
and into hiM nnfi,. whicli the Lord thy
Godmalc.Uh wl^'n.i'tv! tl>l«d(iy." Agtain
when God coinmaiuhid hisClmrch to be
/fathiM'ed "togethur, tho children were
included, Jov^l 2: KJ, l7. "Assoiiqhie the
elders, ji^atlier tho children and those
that suck the breasts." We .have l»0re
the Chu'ch («5kkle«ian) assembled. I(n-
fants were included in it,, " thosii that
suck the brea^^8."^ God nM'oJrnijsi'd the
infant cliildren as membern of his Church
by the same ordinance tiiat was admini,-
stered to their parents. Tliat ordinance
was circumcision. Baptisincame in the'
place of circumcision, Col. 2: 11, 12. We
have proved that God put infants into
his Church and recog-nized them as
Hif^mbers, by an ordinance that is now
superceded by baptism. LJn less some
one can point out chapter and verse
when and whore God put infants out of
his church, they must roiniiin m it and
receive the ordinn,nCe of (luiptism in re-
cognition of their meniborship.

Qur s'icond argument is founded upon
tlie.tiict that baptism was inAtituted for
the sa/ne end and in the place of eirciim-
cision. In order to show this clearly I
shall go back to the time when God
made man in his own image and placed

Chron. 20; 14; Psa. 22: 22^25; Acts 7: 38,
B. C. 898; B. C. lOll ; B. C. 1500. The
word "ecclesia signifies the called out
from." That is from the darkness of

him in the garden of Eden, able to
stand, yet liable to fall. Man disobeyed
God and fell. In his fallen condition
man required Salvation, Salvation in-

TIIK (.X)()I'I>:U I.MVKU'l'ON DHBATK

iflitcouiinuiiH.
II puront, lit)

I (J(«. 17: t7,
al<l to Nimli :
iouHi', ' (Irn.

) «Wll(lt'rill'HM

t^H wotnuii

iV4i«(r>tiit with
< l)<mt. 20:

II of you, b»<-
oiii' ai[l>tiUu8
• • • ydur
)»ld(^8t untnr.
r>rd thy Owl
le Lord thy
ny." Agftiin
'liuri'h to bo
ildron w«i'0
fl4nit|ble khd

I HiiU thofun

.luvo h0re
'iiiblod. f^n-
''tlioHti! that
(yjjTHissi'd tho
)f lurt Church
vvuH adininir
it ordimiiict)
came in thu%
11. 12. W«
infant!) into

1 them as
that 18 now
itloHS Bom»
V ntid Verse
ifitnta out of
in in it and
>t(Hm in i*e-
i|).

unded upon
istituttid for
e of eirciim-
lis clearly I
when God
aiid plncRd

^\u\(Hi the pardon of

man'HHln orjuHtl-

llnition and the nninvliijf of hlH iintiu«i
or rc«:<'ii«'iHtloii. The iiardonof uinn'N
Hin could only Im' accoiii|(llMln'd throu^Mi
the aloninu- doith ufi hiisr. Ileb. !): 252.
"Without Hlieddiuu- of bItMHl in tio nunirt-
»loh, ' TIU' rcimwal of hdihh iiatiiic
muHf l)o crtcited throViVfh llie nff.'ncy of
thti lloK (rlirmt. .John IJ: •» H, •'Kxccp*
a mini he hyin * * * ,>f ^\^^, ^j,|,.j, j^.

cannot enter into the kiiivrdoiii of (Sml ''
"Ye muHt In- horn a/^aln. " • '.So h ev«'rv
one th-it Ih J.»Min „f the Spirit." Man
^muHtlH" tatl;r|,t the ncccMNity of the Ha-
crifkial death of Chii.m. aiidlli:' necen-
Hity of tlie ri'iiewal of IiIn natiiiT 'riii'rti>
are the two ^rrent finidaniental trurliH in
r.od'H NchetiKt of rcdeiiiptioii. They are
HpiritunltliithHaiidiiiviHil^le. (JiMl^rave
man i-ertaiii object Ii'khoiik or illuHtia-
. tiouH to keep ever b«'for« him tlicMe
truths. From the dayn of (niii and
Abel (mmI wjintcdmaii to reco^i'iiize the
truth that. " Without HheddiiiH- of lihiod
there Ih no remisHion." When Abel
oflered the slain lamb on (he MacriHcial
altar, he recoj>nized thiH tiutb and his
faith looked forwanl to the -tj.amb of
(»od, HJain from the foumhition of the
world;" (iod whis pleaHid with Abel's
ott'iTiiiH' because lie reco^iiiiz-d that h(^
was a sinner and that the blood of (hrihi
must b',sh(Ml lor him. Cain in hisofter-
tiifi- of ♦the fruits of the ^niamd" did not
recoH-ni^se the neces.sitv of the shed bl.HMl
of Christ. Hence : "The l^-d had n-
Hpect unto Ahel and hfs otrcrlnu, but
unto Cain and |iisotterin{4' he had not
respect." ri:Rt! patriarchs recognized
this great truth by off'.irinjf sacrifices
and kindling- altar fir<'s. (Jen. H; 2o.
"Aiid Noah buildcd i.n altar unto the
Lord : and took cvt^ry clean beaut, and
of C!Veiy clean fowl, and ottered burnt

lOfferinjrs on the altar. Aiuanr also
^biiilt altars unto the Lord, Gen. 12; 7,8
he necessity of an atonement was re-
|ognizBd by the sacrificial offerin;^ fr6ni
Abel up to the departure of Israel out of

Kj^vfit when the I'aHsovur wiih hmtltut-
ed. HxihI. 12: I 27. "In the tenth day
of thii* month, they nhall take to them
every man a lamb • * • And they
Hhall lake the b|(M>d and strike It on the
two Hide poHtH and t,n the upper door
post of the liofHeM • • * mid when I
Hce the IiIimhI, I will paHMoveryou * • •
And this (lay hiiiiII be nnio you for a
memorial : an<( ye nhall keep it a feant
to the Lord throughout your genera-
tions." The Klaift lamb was a type of
Christ. '•'IiIh feast, the Passover, kept
before Israel tlu' ^reat truth, the nnceti-
iilty of thesacritlcal (h'ath of ChriHt. I*
wflH a memorial and obstirved eacii year,
Heb. 10: l-l. "It was "a shai ow of good
things t<'come,'' and not the very image
4)1" the things " "Hut in thes*> HacriMceH
there is^a reriiembrance again made of
sins every year." All the«e Hacritices
|M>inted to the one great sacrifice of
Christ. Dming the Mosaic disf-ensatiOn
oth'ir Hacrilict^H were luhtcd to this, and
they all, were intended to t«'ach the
same lesson. Hut the pasHover was
(lod's principal object lesson in teaching
man that "without shc(hling ol bKMx( .
there is no remission," that ChriHt must
die for our sins, "the just for t\u'. unjust>
that he might living UH to Go<l, lH;ing
put todeath In the flesh." Chriut be*
came our passover : i Cor. ft: 7, " For
even ( hrist our passovcr is sacrificed
for us.' ^'he I!-ord's supfH'r was then
instituted in its room and [ilace and for
th(< same end. God wanted man to still
recognizee the same great truth, the
necessity of the death of Christ tor our
sins, and in the lord's supper wo have
the sanu! great truth taught. The pass-
over was a memorial. "Wiien 1 8e(> the
b'lood Lwi|l pa 8.S over you * * * and
this day shall be unto you for a mc^mori-

'■n

J^'

Abranr also al : and ye shall keep it a feast to the
Lord." The Lord's supper is a mem9-
rlfll. 1 Cor. 11: 20-2(5. "This do in re-
niembranco of me." "Tins do^, as oft
as ye drink it, in remembra«ce of me.'

;n, able to
n disobeyed
I condition
ilvation in-

. ' \

■■ f t' / ' w -^ ■■' •

■ •?..;'■<■# 4'j?^

THK rhoiMCU LKVKU'mN J)|*:HATK.

.••r»r «• ofli'il Kfi yiM'iit thinbrni.l, ni.«l
drink thin aip, Jo «lo t»lMm Inrtli tlu'
I^nlM dratimil h« irHim." tl"' pn»'»'
oviir r.tn>;iil/««l tliHt : "N» Itli*"" •'•»i'<l«l-
lii)!: «r hl«MH| tht'tv Ih no rciMlnMlnii " Tin-
Su|ip«*r rcHOKiilx"'" tlifwuiu" k»«'"' '•""'•'•
All Hjurilloul olT.-riii^r>4»»if<»n' Cliiiht Wfir
IntttlKlnl tnU'JH'U HuHiiir KIOhI tiolli.
All tlu) HiurilUoH iiiiiMt bf imitf' <l uiidrr
th«i HHiiif Im'ihI TIk'V nil |M>i"t <«> >'"'

tlouH nl«.Hv»ii»Kill/,.'a tiMi rli'miiiliHf "'•"'y
.,r Mhi. I'Hill rrtllM lli.ui -illviT H hap-
tlHniH." Utt«> «•: 10. Hnpti-ni x< Itli w»ht
h.viiiIm.IIjw«n tlHi >•«»««« t»'"'»f. «••'•«•••»"«.
ii'ikI Ik ii n\trn "f ri'ifi'imriitltm. Thun w«
hrtvii iiltiir lliv, ilfiUiiH'lMion, piirllUii
tl.MihHiuHmptlHiii. all typify «ia» nnnlio-
li/.u tiM- Hainn Hiliijf- <i««» hMHtluiH Kept
iM'fuit' mnn th.-H« tw» ^icat tr-tlin.
aKau'iiu'iit nial rrjf.ua ration I la^ oh-

„t<>u«m.Ht. Now lot UK MMn.otla...tla.r ,j..t r^- "r"; '!'':; "^ilalon.

ifn^nt truth, t)w iwvvmUy of rt'jfi'ni'ra
thai, and the ohjcrt h'KHonn hy wliUli
(ijkI waijflit to teat h it to ""<•' H<r«'<'«''
ration involvrn clijniiHinjr. Altar tin- Ik
a ty|M' and muiIioI of iloauKin^r or nt-
goni'rntlon. Ih" <»= ^-7. limn- (iodV
HrKt ohjoct U'Hfnw to tonth man thr iw-
coHHity of h'^^^ni-ration wjiKultar llni.
OodV mixt jfreat object h^n-ton to ti-avh
th«^anu' truth win* !ho rlto olthrnnui-
Hlon. C'lrcunuirthai in ItH HpirltnnI Ini
p6ft Hljcnidt'H. "tlu' pultlnjf away ot tho
girto of t\w tlcHh," Coll. '24 n. (Iriunul-
Hion had a d«»p spiritual Import. Oout.
H0:«, "Aodthc^ Lord thy (i<Ml will olr-
ciunclm^thiiM?hi'ait, and thti laart of
thy (M'cd, to lovo the Lonl thy God with
' nli thine, hoart and with all thy soul,
that thou nuiycHt live." Jer. 4: 4, "Clr-
cunicloi^ yowrHclvt'K tfi th« Lord, and
tnkoaway tht< foreskin of your lu^art.''.
Also R*Hn.'2:28, 29, "For ho ih not a
jew which Is end outwardly, noithi-r Ih
that circumcision which is outward in
the flewh : But he Is a Jew which is one
inwardly; and clrcumcisuai is that of the
heart in the spirit. " These pasHajres

^acilllceH and In tho Other purl Ilea tlon-^
or that which HtfcrnlHtMl purmcatha.. ^o
other truthKhave hcen h. reprewnt»'d.
'I'la'Keare the jrreat KHvinjf truthn In the
Hcheme of redemption With bl.MKly
sacilliceK paHHinK Hway, alno paKHe(
„wav a hhuHly rite and Ih Uk Htead and
for thejiame end canm liaptlsm. Hut
the rite of drcnnicihlnn wan applied to
Infants and if 1 have cHtabliKhed my
«i-^ument upon n firm foundation, then
b iptlHUi coming in the place of cfrcum-
elHion an«l for the sami- end nhonld be
administered to infants The very na-
ture of the hcIh me of n demptlon makes
it necessary that these two (freat truths,
atonement and reffeneratlon should be
kept liefore n>an by proiM-r syndiols, un-
til the end of tune. And thus upon the
hifrhest authority, the nature of things,
is sustained Infant bai.tism. This Is
placlu}? infant baptisni upon its proper
basis, for here the rlffht is Itased upon
the r.rlation, the chibl sustains to the
Lord Jei<u8 Clirisl in the economy of
{Trace. This arjrument is suflicient of
Itself to estalrllMi the ri},'ht of infant

cSy prove t^ at circumcisio.; was thcr baptism, but I wish to present flpr y..ur
sign of a new h.-art, a sij^n of regenera- consideration another nr^fiunent before
tion. It was aseal of the rigjjteoUsn(!SS sitting down. , . , ^ . ..„«„ h.«

of faith Horn '2: 11, "He received tlu; My third argument is based upon the

sign of circumcisiou, a seal of the right- fact that, the cov...ant of ^^^^^^^^
of the faith which he had yet is th.^ cov<Mmnt ot grace, that uifants

eousnoss
being uncircumcised."
To circumcision, God's great object
^Iffison in teaching man the gicat trutli,
regeneration, wore added, the cere-
monial purlHcations. Th^se pujmca-

wert! lnclu(K'd in it, and tl>e seal, of the
covenant Avbich was circumcision, was
by divine connnand applied to InfantA.
In order to understand clearly this
question we must go back to the caU of

''^ ^ V'

^w- mi

\ #, /»/

, ^

. #'#J|lt^'e

TIIK COOPHK LfcVEHTOK DEBATR.

VlTH l»iit»-
,< ilh wiiU'V
(•|i>HiiitlnN>,

I. purllU'n
mil (♦viiilio-
HttlllH krpt
lit tr'tliH,
I Tliii o*»'
im< w«»rt.' hII

>ntl<iu. No
o|)r«'wnt»'«l.
luthH ill tlic
nil IiUxmIv

«HtrH(l mill
ptiHiii. Hut
!« nppllid to
ibliMlird my
lation, tlu'H
«'(»f i-rriutn-
(I hIiouIcI 1)0
lin vi'ry nn-
>ttoii titaki-H
rrimttrtitliH,
II) Hhouhl li«
syniViols, liri-
iiiH upon thii
re of tliiiigH,
in. Thin Ih
)ii itH propor
l)ns('(l upon
*t)iins to t\w
iHonomv of
surtifiiiiit of
ht of infant
sent for your
iinoiit b«foriv

80(1 upon tli«
tirtunniaion
thnt infnntti

iiiul tliw protnJHn jfivi»n to A'^rain. (Ji-li.
12: I. 'I, 'l.wlll niitki* of tli«'»^ a Kwnt
luttion," "In iIh'I'nIiiiII nil titmilU'M of
the riirili li« I.Umw'il" /Miii* »r«'t»'r»l
promise to Alii'iini iiiiImimi'iI twotliln^pi:
I. It friu<' AWrnni tin* piomlw of a
liti*rnl M(i<l mmI tlif land ol Canaan.

'2. Ujf"^<'>'"' till* pmmli'o of a Hplrl
tual HIM (I and a liiiivi itly iiilirriiniui'.

('poll I lli^ p net-Ill pt'omiM' (iiKl niitdi<
a covt'ii^iiit with AIn'ani and hin liti'rai
mvil and uhli Alnai) and hlHMpirltual
Hi'id, Httnrin^ to hi" liti-ial wud tliv
laid of raiiaan, (tin. I*i:7-'il. Aidnw-
lUrliiKtoliiM Hplritual w'mI a l.i'HVi'iily
Inlicritiinii', (J«n. 17; I 14. Tin- lirnt
Kp(tit!iatlf>n (»r 4lw t'ovi'iiant with Ab-
rani> HpUiUuvl^iid Im. "TIiou mIiiiII I»o
the i^itiil^r of nitiny nations" In alln
Hioii totlu' I niiiirioiiH poHti-rltv Hciund
to Alirain, his nauio wuh than^fcd from
Ahraiu to Abialmni, "a lathci'Of a jrriiat
jiMi'titiidc." This rtpwHii'ation 1h fuUliU
id under tho k«>hI>oI only, by all bi*-
llovoiH lnHoniinw- the iliildr<Mi of Abrw
ham. Rom. 1: lt-17. Abrabnm in horn
Huid to bi' loiiKtitutcd the father of all
bi'lii'vi'iH, and all l.'oliini'rK ari'Hnld to
Imi the ilHldien of Abraham. Abraham
Ih Haid to b(^ I'linHtitntcd tho lather of ail
bi'jicvcrji by ciriumiihion. Some tell ns
that ciriUinilsion \\t\H a Hcal only to
Abraham. We admit it, bnt what wiih
cirtunkiHion a Hoai to Abraham for?
llow Was Abraham coiiRtitnted the fath-
er of all bidievefHy "And he received
tlu^ Hi;jrn of (ireunK'lHion, a »*eal of the
ri;;hteoiisiieHH of faith, which he had,
bei-n'^uricii'cumlHed." For what end <lid
he rt'ciive this seal? "That he mi^ht
be the lather of all them that believe,
though they be not circumcised, that
ri;<hteouBness inijrhl be im|>uted totheni
alw»." Then .Abraham received tlm^i^ni

of circunuision for the «p(ici.'lc purpose
of constitutinfi- him the father of all
believers. Circumcision theU sealed
Abraham the father of all btdievers hi
n!l a}?ea of the world. Abraham is con-

mlltilwl lh« fhthor of nil iM-lloverii by
clrcumcUlon. It In utated hIho that he
Ih lh« fiitJw*r of clin'nmcbloii to Itmiii
who are not of the circumcUlon. Clr
lUnicirtlnii iUm«h not come down to un.
Ilnw wan Abraham by ilrcumcUloii,
I'oiiKtItuted th« rathur Ol clnunulMlon to
believet« undc-r the ko<^]h'\? Hy f«llb
we enter thiH covenant of chcunicUlon.
The mroiid Hpeclllcatlon of thiH covenant
irt : "And I will kIvo unto thee, and to
thy •••♦il after thee, the land wherein
thou art u Htran(fi?r, " tHir opp<Hi«nU
aiKue that thn covenant of clW-umclHlon
Hecured thU on'y, Hud that It W«» »
flenhy ordinance.

Now If temporal bleHHlnjfH only, wnire
rteciired by thi> covenai|t, then th« Mi^n
and Heal nuwt import temporal thlnjcn ^^
only. Hut the niKU and mnl of tliw .)('
eovovant import nplritnal wh well M
temporal bleHnin|ur«. Oircumcinion wn«
a Hijf'' »>»• » «''»' *»' H|»lritual bleHHinjfH
chiefly. It wnH not wlmply a tteBhIy
ordinance Hecurin^f a Humll pli'ce of land.
It had a deep npiritual lm|K)rt, I>g|t.
:V): Hi, "And the Lord thy (mmI wilUlr-
cumclHe thine heart, an<l tbe heart of ■
thv Heed, to love the Lord thy (!od with
all thine heart." *J<n- 4; 4, '^ClrejmiclHy*
yournelveH to tho t^rd, and take away
the foreHkin« ol your heart." HomaiiH
2: '2H, 2». "Kor he In -not a jew which is
oiu^ outwardly ; neither l»jthat circum-
cirtion which In outward in th« flesh t
Bur he Irt a jew which l« one Inwardly ;
andfircumciHionia- that of the heart. In .
the spirit and not in the h-tter, v/lione
jiraise Ih not of men but bf Goil." Clr-
cumciHion* was then, a siffn of regenera-
tion or a new heart, and a seal of the \
riffhteouMiicKa i'f faliJij and according? ta:; ,^- ;
every sound canon of loj?ic. and commoin
sense, we must understand that the
covenant of which ciicnmc i t 4 ion was the

»e seal, of the
mcision. was
td to InfantA.
clearly this
to the call of

siKu and seal, Hccured the bhrssiiigsof a
new heait and tiierif^hteourtnesH of faith
and it was therefore the covenant of
grace in Christ Jesuft. When thia

1 1

i"*-

.■' \

'■•Ty ■'in

5'» " V

*"*■" "^'H.'" ' •■ '•'^j'jsr'l

THE COOPEE-LEVERTON DEBATE.

covmnnt was flstiiblislie!! first in tlie
family of Abrnliuin, itil'anta were put
into it by th« (^xpiThs coiiunaiKl of (iod.
Tills proves clearly tbat infant (.burch—
m(nuborHlii|) irt not opyjoscd to, but in
hannony witb the nature of the eovcn-
ant of {?race, ( Jod iM'injjr jud^Mf. That
the covenant of circiuncision is ith^ntical
with the covenant of yrace is also esta-
blished by the paralvie of the vineyard.
Mark 12: 1-U ; J.uke 20: 9^2;$.; .:Matt. 21:
8iJ-46. ,/- •

That the covouant of circumcision is
ovangvlical is also proved from the par-
able of the olive tfee. Uom. 11: lG-'24.
But I have prov<'dby arginnonts I know
cannot be answered the evaurt'clical na-
ture of ihe -co\Ttiant of ciiruincision
which establishes infant bapt^isni.

Time expired. ^

MR. LEVEETON'S FIRST REPLT.

Mr. Leverton.— I am a little surprised
at my friend losing' so much time in the
latter part of his speech to show what I
ought to say and tryinc: to put me in thp
affirmative lam on the neg-ative and
am suppcsed to follow him, if there is
anything to follow. He has given
nothing to show that infant baptism is
by Bible authority. You may theorize
a much ji* you please but that is not
giving facts. I belioVe in the types and
shadows' a^much asmy opponent but
the question to-night i^- : Is Infant Bap-
tism of Bible Axithority ? Wesiiall go
to th^ Bible and see what it saVs In re-
gard to the matter : Matt. 28: IS 20, "(Gio
ye therefore and teach alt natiprs, bap-
tising, etc." We are fold here of the
eoinmission which Jesus gave to his
disciples. In the first place they were
to teach plain gospel truths. Mark
16; 16, "He that believeth and is bap^
tisied shall be saved but he that believeth

ceded baptism. Can the infant bu
taught ? If it is impossible to teach the
child, then it cannot Ih' baptized, for
this docs not teach that part of the hu'
man family, Wht'n .Icsus met John,
John said ^'Heboid thi> Lamb of (iod that
tak(;th away the sin of the world."
.lesiH took }iwa;\^/)riginal sin by hhed"
ding His own blood. Again. Vf\w\\ tb<\v
brought childreH to Him, the discipli*
evidently thought that they shouhl not
b(v brourh.t for thev forbade the people
bringing th(!Ul. lint Jesus said, "suffer
tluMn to come unto huv for of such is the
kingd mi of heayen." Christ atqnpd for
th(;childreu. This atonement was fore-
shown by the sprinkling of blood on the
doorposts tn Egvpt. The blood was not
spriitkled up. h the children, yet it aton-
ed for th(! first-born i\n every hou.?e so
sprinkled. . If the original sm is taken
awav, then the child is not accountable
to (Jod. We belieVe there are children
in Gods church. If my opponent's an-
alogy be right they would have to
receive the seal of baptism at 8 dpys, if
it came in place of circumcision, other-
wise they would be lost. If the parent
withheld froih theih the rite of bjiptism
then th(! child Avould be cut off. If the
se^nl of circunu'ision was not put on the
child at 8 days old it was cut off. WheTi
they brought the children to Christ there
wns no better time for Him to establish
infant "baptism than then. Ho took
them up in his arms and blessed them
by laying hands on them, not a solitary
drop of water was used. Then about
the*^ commission "(ioHud teach all na-
tions " They were to baptise them in
the navne of the Father, of ihe Son ahd
of til e Holy Ghost. Then they were to
teach those they hattized all the things
Chr. St had commanded them. Could
they teach infants all these things? ' *He
that believes and is baptized." Here
we fhid that bc li eMMlie prerequi s ite

not shall be damned," What do we
learn from this? That teaching pre-

before baptism. In Mait. 3: 1, we find
that repentance is necessary as a pre*

(• in font bo
to tiint'h tlu'
nptized, for
rt of tlu! iiu-
I met John,
)of (lodtimt
rho world."
jin by sht'd*
I. whim tb<\v
lie discipU*
y 8houl<l not
ie the people
<aid, "suffer
t such is the
it « toned foi*
lilt was fore-
blood on tlie
ood was not
yet it aton-
'.ry liou.^e so
sm is taken
accountable
are children
poiient's an-
Jd have to
at 8 dpyw, if
is>on, o'ther-
r the panrnt
i of bjiptism
off. If tbe
6 put on the
toff. VThlTi
ChriHt there
to establish
. Ho took
lessed thern
nl a solitary
Then about
■ach all na-
;ise them in
he Son alid
ley were to
1 the thing's .
lem. Could
lings? "He
zed." Hpre
prerequi s ite

THE COOPIIR-LEVBRTON DEBATE.

paratory work before being bapti^.
Matt. 8: 11, "I baptize you with water
unto repentance but he that uometh after
me is mighter than I * *■ ' * He shall
baptise you with the Holy GhoHt and
Are." There is not a child mentioned
here. I defy you tu show by the Bible
ttiat aehild was ever baptist. Luke
3: 21. Jesus was baptised. You will re-
member that Jesus was also circumcised
* when ho was eight days - old . Luke 2:
But if circumcision was sufficient why
didn't he exclude th» ordinance of bap-
tism?

Why did he not set an example that
We are to follow? He did. When he
was thirty years of age, he came to th6
waters of Jordan to bin baptized. There
was no infancv in that; or ground for
ddubt, but shows one of mature agj.
Mark 1: 4. "John did baptizer in the
wilderness and preach the baptism o!
repentance unto the remission of sins."
Here is another proof that repentance
precedes the ordinance of baptism.
Again io Mark 16: 16, "He that believeth
and is baptised shall be saved." Faith
must be in the individual before he is
fit to be baptised, and faith is always
necessary to prepare us to receive it.
Acts 8:87, Philip and eunuch When
. they came to a, certain water the eunUch
said, ** What doth hinder me to lie bap-
tised ?" and Philip said, "If thoU be-
lievestwith all thine heart thou mayest."
Here we find faith is prerequi'site.
Again in Acts 2: 37-88, "Now when they
heard this they were pricked in their
hearts and they said, "Men and breth-
ren what shall we do?" Peter said,
('Bepent everv one of 3'ou and be bap-
tised." There were no children there,
but those who believed in Jesus Christ,
And Repented of their sins. They w.>re
to bei baptised. In Acts 8th, we read
about Philip going down to bamaria to
preach. Here is an instance where the

men and women," not a mention of a
child being baptised which is conclusive
proof they were i»ot baptised. The
children are redeemed through the
atonement without the ordiriance of
baptism. Again Acts 2: 41, "Then they
that gladly rec^-ived the word were
baptized " Did children gladly receive
the word? That was impossible on ac-
count of their incapability of understand-
ing it. Whatelsedid they do? "And
the same day there were added unto
them, about 3.000 souls and they con-
tinued steadifast in the apostle's doctrine
and the breaking of bread, etc." Here
we have the continuing steadfast • * *
the breaking of bread, etc. They (the
apostles) were sent' to preach the gospel
to those who were capable of ipeceivlnir
and obeying its principles. Some may
Kay you have just taken passages where
it is plain there were no children and
there are instances of children being
baptised. As it is said that certain
households were baptized. If we were
told that there were any children there
I would believe that children should be
baptised; but we are not. I cannot
take theory in place of the Word otQud.
Acts 8: 12^ They were baptized both
men and women. No children^ In Ajcte
16: 13, the women were preached to and
and Lydia was baptised. *'And on the
sabbath we went out of the city by a
ri\'er side, where piayer was wont to be
made and <ire sat down and spake unto
the women which resorted thilheir.
And a certain woman named ijydia, V
seller of purple, of the city of/ Thyatira,
which worshipped Ood, hear^ us: whose
heart the Lord opened, that shei attended ^
unto the things which ^ere Spoken of ^
Paul. And when she was baptized, and
her household, she besoivht us. saying,
If y« have judged me to be ftiithftil to
the Lord, come into my house, and aMite
there . " Not a word of any children nof

^ h

fl!

I: I, we find
y asa pre-

Jpreacking took effect and there was joy
ill t|te city "»nd they were baptized both

infants there. There is nothing to say
that Lydia was a married lady. If she

■ '("'4'-

THE CQOPER^LEVEUTON DEBASE.

had been her husband no doubt would
be spoken of : she was a business wo-
man, a seller of . purple. She would
probably have wohien employed with
her notisehold She couhl,)uofc have had
childre-i there, for noiiti is. ineiitiOncd.
Acts l(i^8f)-34. Here Ave have the lK>i>3C!-
hold of ^ffte jailor.- :''*And he.hrouf?ht them
out, and said, Srrsjwhat must I do to bo
saved"* * * And, thcv spake unto
him th(^ word of the Ldrd and to all that
were in his house, Arnd he took tht^n
the ShWe hour ef the 'nig-Vt. and washed
theiri istripejs and was bapf jsed, he and
all hi^.. i Do yon . supposci that those
apostlips ol the^ LtOid would go a nd preach
to infants who could hot possibly under-
stand or believe.. The statement has
been made frequently that they were
bapthsed in his house, but they were
not, verse 3Q:says, "And brought them
but, and said, Sifs, what must I do etc,"
and ifif vjerseM, "Whpn he had brought
them intpijis hous«f." It is not for me
to savrbut the scriptures show thev
came out, and the 'inference" is that
there were no children there. Now
whafforiows' : "And when he brought '
•ihem intd^tiis house, he set meat before
them afid rejoiced believing in God with
all his houpe'." Children could not re-
joice. In the ^s^nse the term is used
here, Cor^ 1^6, "And I baptised also
the household of Stephanas^" Here we
have. another househbld baptised but not
tt (tiiention of infants- How many afe
tteere living with a large family all
cajpi^ble of being taught and living up
to wiiat they are taught, which would
make them proper candidates. Christ
made 1 all atonement for chilil^n^ and
took away the original sin and conse-
quentiy infants are not responsible for
original sin. They are saved Avithout
an act of obedience on- their part but
when they comer to^ars of understand-

and he was told- how to obey that law.
Isr, Cor. IG: 15, "I iiesoeeh you brethren,
ye know the house of Stephanas, that
it is the first fruits of A(;hai«. and thnjt
they haves addlcicd them.<elvo8 to the
ministry of the saints." We distoveX"
here what kind of children thest? were.
They uiKler.stood and addicted them-
selves to the ministry of the saints So
far H« we have examined this household
we do not find any infant and the doc-
trine is built oil. supposition. [Time ex-
pired.] • ,. > :

ing then the ordinance is laid upon
them. Man acts on . his own free agency
in obeying the contmandments of God

MR. CmPER'nECDBD SPEECH,

**Mu. Chajkman, Laivies and Gentle-
men :— My opponent says that I gave
no Bible authority as proof of the pro-
position, I affirm. He has been talking
like that each evening since the deba-te
began. He will, continue ti> tell you
that until th(! • close of the debute. H(v
cannot answer my arguments aiul this
is a favorite dodge of his to divert your
attention. He- well knows that I have
jriveii vou Bible authority all the time
and that I have presented arguments
that cannot be overthrown. This dodge
will not only help him but it will be re"
sorted to by his followers here who will
go out fBwi*-thiirill8<:us&ion and repeat
over and over again his statements, that
I gave no; Scripture proof of my position.
I have quoted text after text sustaining
my pp.sition and I shall continue to do
so, giving chap, and verse out of the
Bible, Vet his people will keep right oiv
repeating the untrue f5ta,t8ment that I"
have given no Bible authority. It mat- .
ters not to them though it -be refuted
oftei), they will keep* right on rej.>eating
it with a flourish of? triumjph that is
amusing. My friend's small [criticism of
my argumentv that blood was notsprink-

led upon infants when the rtassover was
instituted amounti to so littlle and«hpwai
so clearly that hedoes not comprehend

■*v.1'

that la wr.
t biethron.
una H, that
, and that
voHto tho
', disfovuf
ln'sif were.
;c'd th«ni-
aitttn So
hau8('hold
i the dot'-
[Time ox-

PEECH,

) Gentle-
II t I gave
if the pro-
!n talking'
he deba^te
tell you
bate. He
< aiul thiH
vert your
lat I have
I the time
rgniments
'his dodg"©
will be re"
! who will
nd repeat
lents, that
y position.
UHtaining*
niie to do
wt of the
> right oiv
«i/ that I

it mat- •
<G refiitod
rei)eatinip
h that is
riticism of
lot spyiuk-

THE COOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE?.

the arnfuinent that I would spend no
time over it were it not th'it some nn-
thinkin?" porson miffht think there is
flomething: in it. NeiMier mfants'aior
adultH Avere sprinkled with the Ijlood of
the Iamb slain for the passovcr and T
din not say th^y were 1 ar;?ued that
the passover was God's principal object
lesson in teachiiijf'nian th;! ^'•reat truth,
atonement, until the Lord's 8upp(!r was
substituted for it in the {»Qspel dispt^nsa-
tion. I argued that circmneision wa«
likewJHe God's principal object hwson in
teaching jnan the other great truth, in
th« scheme of redemption, regeneration,
until baptism was substituted for it in
the gospel dispensation. That the ob-
ject lesson, circumcision was alike appli-
(^d to infants aitd adults and thatjf l)ap-
tism is a substitute for it. and I proved
thff.t it i.s, then baptism should be appli-
ed to infants and to adults not baptiziul
iii Infancy. He says if kiptism caino in
the place of circu ncision, th.m unbap-
tizjd infants will bo cut off and lost for
uhcircumcisc^d infants wer(5 cut off. I
reply, ye.s, cut oflF but not lost th m nor
are tlioy lost now without baptism fjr as
I pointed out baptism is a symbol, and
it is not the symbol that saves hut the
thing symbolized, real baptism, tiiat of
the spirit. Again my friend objects to
baptism as a substitut vof cirel'nvtision
beciurj Christ was both cirvju'neise 1
and baptiiid, also becaus;i a f;3w in
apostolic divs were both circuncise i
and baptized. He forg'Jts that th)
atonement was not an acxiomplished tacti
whan Christ wa^ circumcised. Christ's
infancy was in the old dispensation!,
Christ's manhood Or ministry, just verg'
ing upon the new, and t4iat Christ's life
on earth bridged jihe old and the new.
It was therefore proper tjiat hi shoald
receive ths ordinance both in its old iand
new form. The practice of ci rcumcision

and baptism in npostolic days was con-
tinued in the transition period because
the disciples had not fully learntHtf thfit

God had changexl the form of the ordiii'
Alice and because/ some people love to
cling to the old forms^ The form of a
-lodge seal i.'j sometimes changed and tht?
«oal in its now form is applied to "docu-
ments already sealed without invalidat-
ing th(3iu For some years in apostolic
days and oyen ifter those days, the dis-
ci pies obs"fved both the last day and the
first .lay of the week. Hut gradually'
the last day Avas dropped and the first
substituted in its place. So ,'it was
with crrcumcision and baptism in the
transition period overlapping the old
and the new dispensations. As the early
disciples gradually learned the truth,
they drojiped circunicisipn The fact
that they adhered to both for a while
does not prove that bapti.sm is not asuV-'
stitute tor cifcumcision. Hut the i'sivX
tha,t they eventually, entirefy dropped
circumcisioti niid substituted baptism in
itfi place is beyond dispute. Again my
opponent objects that bapti&m did not
take the place of circumcision because
baptism is applied to both male and fe-
male, while circumt^ision was ortly ap-
plied to males. ■ This objectioii looks
plausabic at fir.st, liut there'is nothing
in it at all as an objection. Abraham's
seed were justified by faith and circurn^
cfsed. Only those circumcised were ad-
mitted to the passover. But females
were justified by faith and iVjCeived the
passcvOr. They were accounted as Cir-
cumcised in the malfe and expused from
any outward«)pei*ation except purifica-
tion by water. In the gospel the dis-
tinctiori of male and female so far as'
applying the ordinance is coneerned is
abolished. Gal. 3: 2.5-29. "For as many
of you as have been baptized inifo Christ
have put on Christ. There is neither
Jew nor Greek * * * There is neither
male nor female : for ye ai"e all one in"
Christ Jesus." Again he thinks that if

. l>aptlsm is in the place of cinriimcision
it ought to be administered at the eighth
day as was circumcision. We reply that

' :ik

isover was
ind«how8
inpreliend

f 'f^ff •

tHE COOPER-LEVERTON; DEBATE.

up to> A. I>. 268, the first Cpuiicll of
Carthii^, it was ho administered at the
8th day. That Council of sixty-six bi-
shop^ decided that it might be administ-
ered before the 8th day. The spirit of
the gospel does not exact the 8th day.
The time limit proves npthirig Jty
friefid says there is not a word said,«bout
tte chaiig^ in form of the ordinance,
about baptism taking the place of cir-
cumcision. I liave already proved that,
the very nature of the ordinance as a
'sign of the new birth.of cleansing makes
baptism take the place of circumcision,
otherwise God would have two symbols
to signify the sam^ thing. Nothing
special .ii said in the^ Bible about the
change of the last d^ pf the week for
the' first, yet my friend recognizes the
first ^ay as substituted for the last.
Nothing is said about females partaking
of the Lord's Supper, yet my firiend ad-
mits them. But we have clear, specific
Scripture proof that it did take Jthe place
of clrcumcisioil. Coll. 2:11, 12^ "In
whom ye were alte circumcised with a
circumcisijn not made with hands, in
the puttiiig off of the body of the flesh,
in the circumcision 6f Christ, having
been buried with him iu biaptism " Here
circumcision is efl'ected bv baptisni.
Spiritual circumcinion fs the putting
away of the sins of the tfesh. Spiiitual
bftptism is the same thing. Ritualcir-
cumcision signified the putting away of
the sins of the flesh, Ritual baptism sig-
nifles the same t^ing. ' Again my friend
obji^ts to baptism as a substitute for eir-
cumcision because he says baptism is for
the remission of sin% and cij;cumciftion
was not. My friend *s wroug in basing
an ai^meut upoA. such a differeuce,
[or as we h\^\\ |)rove.in our next propo.
jitiou that ritual baptism isno^^for the
remiwion (tfsins. My opponQu't'snext
is that b a ptism require s f ait h

sion of faith jiist as adults are baptised
upon a profession of faith now. Infants
were circumcised without faith and so
infants are baptized now without faith,
and without repentance because they
are just where an adult is with faith and
repentance. V Except ye be converted
and become as a little child ye cannot
e.nter the kingdom Of heaven."

That baptism is the substitute for
circumcision, all the great jst and mdt
competent scholars testify. My friend
quoted Wesley, well if Wesley is a com-
petent witness for him he will not object
to him as a witness for ^e.

Wesley says : >'And as circumel^on
was then the way Of entering into this

covenant, so baptism is now.'

•The

■■/■.•

jews wer-;) admitted Into the Church by
circumcision, so are the Christians by°
baptism " By a plain parity of reason,
baptism; which came In Its room, (that,
is in the room of circumcision) must last
amongjDhrlstlans as long as the gospel
covenant into which It admits. *Wol«
10 p. 191-lSB." . * -

Watson one of the great theologianR

•i«ays. Vol. 4. p. 408. This Is apparent
from the very words ; and thus was bap-
th-m expressly made the initiatory rite
by which bfelievers of all natl&ris were
to be introduced lito the Church and
covenant of grace j an office in whlih

"It mauifestly took the place'of circum-
cision." "Our {jordnot only does not
re-enact it(circttmclslon) but,pn the con-
trary> he appointed another mode of
entrance into the covenant in its "new
and perfected form; and that so express-
iy as to Smounti;o a form||l abrogation
of' the ancleut -sign , and a putting of
baptism in its place." :* »

PoPB another grfiat theological pro*

fessor sajrs, ..Vol. 8, p. 312 : " Baptisrt

Cook' its (circumcision) place." "As

>iiimited in >IoBe», it w as the 'sYmboiof

lepras. In
only till tl
the proml
were the '

falthfu^
ed its own

The Bfj!
Sdsayji : '
clrcumcisi

The gr(
gianshold
tend to tl
Should bii
raelitlsh
This Is thi

Dr. Sen
rian and t
the vlnitla
thc5 Christ
seal of th
sion was!
ant (Rou
iathers al
bn%df %^
d^.^i
who have
*avo rect
clrcumcisi
through b
more of t
ers Cbsh<
froTi tha
the presM
substitute
quqtdd ei
friend is
his fri w
tares, to t
ianity an

My opi
Matt. 28:
servjall i
bet.iught
here com
were to b
as they ^

and that faith was not required by, cur.
cumcision. I #ill ask him to notice that
all adults were circumcised upon profes-

the sanctlfication of physical life and
natural increase, and the seal of partici-
pation itts»xternal and -.hbiited fMivi,*

practice .
taught a
know th«

^nV'"'* ^ '< »'*jF T**'

THE COOPER LEVERTOJJ DEBATE-

1 are baptlxed
low. Infknts

faith and to
without faith,
because they
tvith faith and

be converted
ild ye cannot
ren."

mbstitvte for
cjst and nidt
r. My friend
iriey is a com-
will not object

\. ■;■■ ■'"'; '..
y circuipQi^on
{ring into this

now." "The
the Church by

Christians by
rity of reason,
ts room, (tliat.
Bion) must last
fas the gospel
admits. *iVol«
■ * Z*'

;at chftol(>giaiiR
is is apparent
[ thus was bap-

iuitiatory rite
1 nati^s were
le Church and
>Sice in whi(!ih
lace'of circum-

only does not
but,pn the con-
>ther mode of
ant InitBTiew
that sd express-
ciftl abrogation
la putting of

■■ ■/
beolQglcal ptor
(12: "Baptisn^

place." "As
>the symbol of

lepres. In 'both respects it was ordained
oiily till the Seed should crtme t<f whom
the promirnvwas mad''. "It was as it
were the baptism «of the father of the
faithfu^ «"d in its very origin predict-
ed its own future aboli|ion."

The Bfjloic Confkssiom of faith, art,
84 8ayj;t : "Baptism is the sul stitute for
circumciHioii."

The groat body of reformed thsolo-
gians hold that^ " since the promises ex-
tend to the children of believers, these
sh^ultl be baptized, precisely an the Is-
raelitlsh children were circnmciHed."
This is the view Calvin taJies alna.

Dr:Sciiapf, thagr^at Church Histo-
rian and thaologlan, says : '* Baptism is
the\ Initiatory rite of introduction into
the Christian Church, and thesignand
seal of the new cdvenarnt, as circumci-
sion was' thopign and seal of the coven-
ant (Rom- 4>ll-) The Ante-nicene
iathers all b^ld the sam^ view. Justin,
bn%df ^fnostillui^trioiisoftliem says
^.^^h Trypho'chap.43) : "And we,
who have approached Gotf through Him ,
■*avo received not carnal; but spiritual
circumcision, and we have received it
through baptism." I might quote many
more of tha great th^loglans and fath-
ers to show you that, the Church of God'
froTi the days of the apo%tlesdown to
the present held that baptism i"« the
substitute for circumcision. But I have
quqtad enough to show yqu that my
friend is wrong^ and the theory he and
his fri ndajiplctis contrary to the scrip
tures, to th>i nature and genlftsof Christ-^
ianlty and to *& j record of the Church.'
My opponeiUi quotes the commission.
Matt. 28: 19, 2'X "Teaching thetn to ob-
serv3 all things." He asks, can infants
be taught allying*. . *' I each jng them,"
here comes* after baptism. JFlrst they
were to be disci pled by baptism ^liil then
as they grew up, in hatmon/ with the

practice. of today» they

1 ,

answer, yeiiastliey grow up they can
be taught. I am surprised that my
friend should quote Mark 16: 16 and
apply it to infants, for if It provt5S any-
thing it proves too much. If, interpret-
ed according toj my fjfiend's logic, damns
all the infants. Here is his reasoning
upon this text. "He that believeth and
is baptized shall be daved." But infant*
cannot believe; therefore infants are not
to be baotlzed. Now apply this reason-
ing to infant salvation. "He that be-
lieveth not shall bo damned." But
infants cannot believe ; therefore in-
fants shall bQ damned. Both of these
conclusions are utterly false, but they
are the logical concluflon of my friend's
argumevts and of all those who reject
. infant baptism . It is a significant f Jict
that the chief proof texts of those who
reject infant baptism are not considered
genuine, 'this text has. no place in two
of the oldest andbeSt manuscripts of the/
Bible. The other great proof text of
my opponent and of those who like him
reject infant baptism, Iwcause infants
cannot believe, is, found in Acts 8: 37,
The celebrated confession of the eunuch,
ia not genuine and is left out altogether
in the Revised Version. My frierid
ought to bo better posted than to base
his argument for the rejection of infant
baptism upon spurious texts of scripture.
My opponent next quoted Acts 2: 88,
and asks where are the children? if he
had taken the trouble to read the whole
pawage to the end of the next ^erse ha
. would have fo'.md the children. Verse
89 reads : "For the promise is unto you,
and to y<^ur children, and to all that are
afar off, even as many as the Lord our
God shall call. •; Mr. i^verton told you
that there were no childreu here, Peter
says there are. Will you believe my
friend or an Inspired apostle ? But my
friei.4 objects to the'tjhildren here for he
call iiifants,that in

■I'

:.1=

were to loe* says " C^oddi4 not
taught all things. Does my friend not fauts cannot lie called." The Script
know that, tliat is just ^hat we jlo ? I present examples of calHi^ wtants,

life and
a^al of partici-
.hinited fNrlvi,-

THE U00Pi3U-tEVEKT()N DEBATE.

lean

'•Out of Ej?.yi)t liAvt) I tallecrmy son.
.Ihauh WHS then fti> infant. Aji^ain th«
.proph(;t spHaks of certain onus calUul
''from the woijnb. *" If God oould call from
the womb, he'could call front xhe world of
gin and darkness, on th« day of Pente-
eost, infants. But he objects thxt th«v
jrladly received th 3 word and infants
Could not gladly reueiva tha word. Will
niy friend by his logic. again damn tha
children hei'e as he did In quoting Mark
16: 16. bacausa ihey cannot gladly re-,
coive the word? J f because they can-
not be'iove, repent, ba called, gladly
receive the .woid they must be rejected'
and ref tt<«ftd baptism the same reasoning
damns them. My friend just as I told
yott he' would, almost sliouts himself
hoarse, in asking me to^ive an example,
an instance, the chapter and verse
where a chUd was ever baptized. He^
like aU those who^reject Ihtiant baptism,
asks with a flourish of triumph for a
command to baptize infantji. In my
next speech to-morro.w evening I will
fumisbhim the chapter and verse giving
the commlind, theexample and instance.
' ' Time expired.

■-'■■■'. ♦♦♦♦♦

m LEMWS SECOini' REPLY.

Mr; Chairimah— In replying to me, my ,
opponent' took up a position .that I hnd
alf eady a,n8wered and I do not considtjr
rWs very fair. . In quoting Mark 16, he
took thfe last verse to show that the,
children W(mld be datnned. I said that >
the gospel vi'^as sent to those who could
understand and it was nbt sent to the
children. Has he yet proved to you by
- the word of God (and |he Bible is the
A «f evidence) t^atachild wal^
sed. Bringing evidence nutsjde
$ible shows, it is not in the Bible.

But if he' fails to swt up the standard ay
the* teachingsof the, biljle, then my op-
ponent has lo^t his proposition and Ih-
boat. My opponent "lays it would be a
strange family in whith there were no
chlldrvMi .Many families have grown,
all of tht'im tojiroars of maturity. W»'
find no evidence of there b<)ihg Infant
.children in thV jailor's house In re
gird, to circumcision Gen. I7r 10-14,
*' This is my, covenant which ye shall
keep, between me and you find thy seexl
after thje. Every man chiid shall be
circumcijedon the eighth day." If 'bap
tism takes the place of ctircumcision we
should follow the laiW that governed cir-
c^nlcision. Th'J male child is to take
the seal, but no seal is given to the fe-
male children/ Then unle^is tiiy oppo-
nent can show this b«w has been chang-
edi he should only baptize male in-
fants. Again verse 13 says, " He that
is born in thy house and he that is bought
with thy money rauHt heeds ba circum-
cised." It was. compulsorvy upon them,
then baptism should bTTiompulsorS' on
the human race. In verse 14» it says,
the-Uncircvmcised man child ?" , ♦ *
shall be cut off from, his people. . Thuii
ha would bse bis inheritance and if bap-
tism takes the place of jcireuntcision,
then tho.se who are not baptise^ ^^^ cut
, olf or losevthoir inheritance. Verse 10
says, "Hethat is eight days old, shall bft
circumcised.". Tliere wasfa certain
time at which, the seal should be put on,
then you must take your children to the
house of God and have them baptised on
the eigth day. The idea of perpetuat-
ing a law in a certain sphere and leaving
the rules that govern it is absurd. Cir-
cumcision was td take place jiist on a
certain part of the body hence the same
part should be baptized. Acts l&'.l^-
"Forasmuch as we hiaye heard, that

Ate >e going to take man's theories certain who ijfentout fromsis havctrou-

and aJjt them up hi place of the Bible? bled you with words, ♦ * 'saying ye

If by iV Bible he set^ \ip the standard w«8t be circumcised and obey the law,

Ih^nh^mav support it by other works, etc' Now we find that this quettion

J- 1

F»^^wS'

\\ atnndaiil ity
, then my op-
Mition and W

it would b« H
tlioro were no

hHVLi jfrowu,
latarity. W»'

\ifiXag infant
tottse In re
ien. I7r 10-14,
hich ye sHhII
u (ind thy seexl
child shiill be
iay." Ifbap
curncision we

g-overned cir-
lild 18 to take
ven to the fe-
ileflB tny' oppo-
as been chang-
tize male in-
lys, '* He that
D that is bought
(ids b3 circum-
•\y upon them,
CoiiipuisorSv on
r»e 14» it says,

child ♦, • *

people. . Thui*
nceand if bap-

jcireumcision,

aptise^ o^re cut
ince. Verse 10
ays old, shall bft
was#a certain
puM be put on,
•children to the
lem bapt!s(;doii
A of perpetuat-
ere and leaving
is absurd' Cir-
place jiist on a
hence the same
i. .Acts 15:1*-
lye heard, that
i maw have trou -

THE COOPKR 4.EVBR10N pEBATK;

J9i

. had sprung up in tho bhurch. Here wns

the time to teach thcjchurch that infant

baptism took thijj)l»|c« of circumclHion,

if mich change wjas to be qiadci In the

chuich. . Th«y h a v«j em bnuiflcV the gos-
pel and ioihed the chiirch, ♦^i*iiul says

circmnci«ion awiiletll nothing,' nor un-

circumcision, but a new creature. Hob.

C: 1, •'.therefore l«jajving tho prhiciples

6i the doctrine ?)f Chijist, let us go ion un-
to pi'rfection not layipg »<{?«'" the found-
ation of reprtntancepfrom dead wprktr

and of faith toward (jiod, of the doctrine

of baptisms and laying on of hands^stc."

Here W6 iiaVe th^ first principles of the

gospel of Christ. Tl^ere is iiothins In

the gospel of Cbri^it tlo show that infaht

gprinkllng tooK the place of circttmci-

8ion but we areTol3, 'Take heed unto

thyself and unto the) dootrine, continue

in thjm,^for in doing this thou slialt

both save thyself ajnd them that hear

thee." 1 Tim. 4: l7^ . Ana now about

those children, 1 didn't sa.v that the Pible

dO(!8 not mention children, but as to

their being baptiaed, It is only asuppo'

sition to suppose.that they v^ere. Alwut

Acts 2: 89, "For the promise i» to you

and to your children." ^e plan qf sal- „ ^

vation was MOt confined to those few to 'and of Lgypt
■ whom- Peter w/»8 prnaching,' so the pro- the covenant thUt I

raise comes down vto us and to our

children, but certainly they must grow

to years of understanding befere t|iey

can know whether God is calling thW

or not. We have not been shown yet

that a child is a piFoper candidate i>efore

coming

to years of undersi&nding. I

laying on hands, see Acts 8: 17, uliO '
Acts 19: 6. .

♦♦♦♦♦♦

«R. COOPER'S THIRD SPEECH.,

Mr. Chairman, Lawbh and Gentle-
men :—1 will review briefly my oppo-
nent's last speech, then I shall proceed
to present to you my fourth argumimt
In favor of inrant baptism. My^ frtond
savs that he did not say that Mark 16: 16
.damns infants. No, he did not say sO
but his argument upon that text did say
soi His logic damns the infants, but he
Is better than Ws logic and tban W*
reasoning.

Before I forget it I waqt to notice an
objection to the argument "establishing
the identity of the cdvehant of grace
with that Of the covenant of circumci-
sion. Jer.;3l: 81-34, '|s quoted to prove
that the covenant of circumcision was
abroga^id, "Behold the days cofne.saith
the Lord, that I wlfl make a new coven*
. ant witft the house of Israel, not accord-
ing to ihe cpvehant that I made with
their tethers, in the day that I took them
by thfe hand, to bring them out ot the
* But this shall be

will make if{**i #»«
house of Israel; After tho^ days #iUh
the Lord, I will put my law in thrfr in-
warji parts and write it in their hearts."
The 8th chapter of Heb. is also quoted
to show that the covenant of circumci-
sion was abrogated. Now by a little
exaMination you will see that t^»*» »»

' ■ .4 .■

ask mv opporieht to produce the Bibhv riot ^le covenant of circumcisioubut a
upon these' thirig«r Instead pf infants covenantmadejustabout 43.) years latter
being baptized thev were blessed bv ' -* o-— • ' 'i^^ «-«« ia-»«i *h« law on

Ijayingqn hands as-Ahe seal of the gospel
covenant is the Holy Ghost, an 1 was a
hidden power in the hand; see Exod.
43: 9-16; Matt. 19: 13-16 ; Heb. 3: 31, also
Mark 10; 13-16. Here is where\hildreh

at Sinai. God gave Israel the law on
tables of stone; He said^the time would
come wh«ti he would maki^ a new coven-
ant and instead of wrltinj^the lai* upon
tables -of stone he would write it in
their heart s. This was the covenant of

Sinai To raak^i t clear that the ^ove
ant of circumcision was not abrogated.
Paul says, Gal. 8s 17-18, "Now this I

* * saying ye
d obey the law,
kt this queitimi

were sealed. Then the Holy Ghost and
not water, is the seal, sec Eph, i; laand
Eph. 4: So., That the seal was given by

•t-

'^f7:^v ■ . '

> ft. V <>* V

THE CJOOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE.

«ay : A covenant conflnned beforehand'

.by God, the law, which cnme four hun-
dred and .thirty years after, doth not
disannual. §o as to m^ke the -prom iso of
none effect. For If the iuheri^tance is of
the law, it Is no ntore of promise ; but
Ood hath granted it to Abraham by
promise," Paul distlnctry as9(;rts tliat
the . cpvenant of circumcision was not
diMnifuUed.

My opponent's contention that Christ
sealed the childrun whuh.he put Mi
h%nd8 upon them is so little supported by
ft'ny evidence that I shall pass it by. It
amounts to just nothing. /

Mr. Leverton told'j-ou ho places
five times more weight to the scriptures
than to the opinions of learned nien: I
hav6 nodoubt men's opinions are agai.ist
hi£r ppt theory. But why did he stand
and quote to yon Wesley, Clark, Benson,
Bfea^a, Calvin and many others, taking
up the major part ot his timie in his last
speech on the former proposition ? Why
is Mr. Leverton hot consistent with
tiimself ? After spending so much time
cfuoting authorities it comes with ill
grace for him to repudiate them now.

lay friend told you the little story of
Balaam's ass, and said the Methodists
g6t infant baptism from th^t (ext. I aih
sorry be introduced thenss story n^iid
tbiat I must take up valuable, time to
tell you another. ^ But since he intro-
duced the story I- will tell yon one, but
«r little 'different from the one he told
you. •In the pioneer days a young Met-

'hodist minister was very popular and it
was <said p( him that he could preach a

' ICood sermon from almost any text upon
the spur of themoment. A young* Mor-
mon preacher met^him and challenged
bim to preach from a text that he would

.'hand bim. The young Methodist con-
■ Ontod. Wh e n fl^e time came for the s ion ; "Go

said: ''I see three things in this text.
1.1 see Balaam, a false prophet, who
would curst! Israel tor money. He re-
presents the Mormon elders to-day. 2.
I see a saddle. It represt^its tlie* dotrt-
rine of Mormonism including poly-
gamy. 8. I see the nss; It represents
all those foolish peoi)le who allow them-
selves to be saddled with the nightmare
of^ Mormonlsm." (Loud and prolonged
laughter. ) - " •-

I will now present for your considera-
tion my fourth argument. Tliat the
Commission to the apOstle*, Matt. 28:
19-2 ), the only authority we have to
baptize any onf, included infants, from
the fact that the apostles vi'ho perfectly
understood it and followed its instruc
tions, baptised infants on the day of
Pentecost when Peter opened the doors
of the church and invited the nations
into it and from that day eontin>ied to
baptize whole families or households in^
eluding infants.

Let us turn to Matt. 28: 19-20, the'
commission:—'
\1, The eleven apostles were a|| jews.

2. They had always had their infants
in the church with them.,

8. They had never known of hear! .of
a Church without infants in it. ' '[

4. They had never seen a proselyte
brought in the Church 4\rithout his in-
fants, if he had any. - ;; :

5. Under the Jewish dispensaj^ioh, in-
fants had aiwajs,been a part of God's

.Church.

' ' 6. The Lord Jesus had received in-
fants and declared that they belonged
to his church or kingdom.

7. He held the infant to be the model
to which they must conform before they
could get into his kingdom or churoh.

8. He now gives thejM the Commis-
and disciple all natlonH,

ba p-

be in

in its

^ libei'fl

^ direcl

aDotl

setmon the Mormt^n banded the Metho-
dist a slip of pap«ikwith the text : "And
Balaam rose up in tK<\ morning and sad.
died his ass." The yming Methodist

tizing them into the'name of the Father,
and of thtfScn, and of the Holy Ghost :
teachings them to observe all thlnigs,
wbatsoaver I hAve.corainiiaded yoa/'

■ 'f nrry

■^

TM COOPER-LEV ERTON DEBAttt:

hu p-

Th<jy v^ere firRt to diflciple by bop^V-^ImpouaibliB ! fur
tizing, tMn-iecondly to teach tllM>K ?*' Then said Peter
^This .<Jorjre,Hp«>iuls oxuotly with tH* • ' ' --; - » -

prnctico <>f tliDse .who haptizo infant*.
Tht^y baplizt. tiie iritiints and theii,
teach tliein. Adult uircuihciHion woaX
to \)e temporary, so adult, haptisih' wiis
to bo temporary. Going -into a hea-
then country to-day you ihust firHt
convjsrt the fatherH and mothers before
you can get the infantH. 8d it was'in
the ^^H of the upostleN. In the old
diRpenuation they iirot circumcised the
children and then tliey taught fthieni.
In-' the new dispensatiun they Hrst
baptized the infants, then taught them,
and th^t is what we do now. I think
my opponent wilt not dispute the .ren-
dering of the passage, " Go and dis-
ciple the nations." It is so translated
by Alex. CampViell, the great Disjjiple
Baptist. It 'is so translated by the
Baptist Bible, by the Kew, Version
and bymany great scholars who have
translated the word' Go and teach
(IVtatheuoo) all tlie nations ^** teachipg
(didaskoo) them, »fcc.

Now how will my opponent get iii;
fants out of the comraiission ? 'f'/ey
were* certainly included in th^ All
Nations. The Apostles were w go
and "disciple" the people, baptising
them. Npw| how did they under-
stand the commission ? How did
Peter understand 'it when he dpehed
the doorg of the kinadom" and iiivited
the. nations into it I Did he exclude
infant children? If they were to be
now excluded and put out fof /Goq's
Church, it would have been a go0id
opportunity tpHboU the parents in plain
words that the infants put in the
chureh' for thousands of years must
' now go out. The Church of God is to
" be ex|ien(led. The Gentile world Js to

turn to Acta 2, 38-39.
unto them, repent,
lilid be baptized, every one of you, in
the name ofjesus Christ, for the re-
miSiMion of'hins ; and ye shall receiva'
the gift of the Holy Ghost, for the
proihiso is unto you and to your child*
.ren."',\... , ■/

\ Therft aire three words in the Greek
language^ which signify 'child : 1.
'•C^rephos,'.* on infant. 2. 'Tuidos,"
a *htld. \S. ••Tecknon," (lecsendant,
posterity, ifieluding the si^ialleat in-
fant, "Tecknon," sometimes Hignifiea
an infant before it is born. J t comes
from the root "tick too" that which is ,
borne or born, a child,- Liddell and
Scott's lexicon. Therefore when Peter
preached his sermon on the day of
i*entoco8t and said : "The promise
is unto you jvnd to your (teuknois)
children," they could not have misun-
derstood him. /Ihey could not h»ve
umhuistocKJ hini in any other way thia,n
as including their smallest infants for
he used the exact word that ' conveyed
that idea. They had always brought
their children into the church with
tlienj, and now they are invited into
the, church extended to' the (Jentilea,
and are assured in the plainest language
that ''the promise i* unto them {knd
their infants or infant children.

A right secured by positive enact*'
n^ent, remains intact until it is taken
away by the repeal of the law or
enactment conforring it. The Scott
Act was brought into force and oper*
ation by a voto of the people in this
county; It was repealed, so far a5 its
operation i^ concerned, by a vote of
the peophi. If you were to inquire
whenit wavS repealed, ^t the proper
place, ypu would be told the dayj
month and year Reciprocity between

be invited into it. Is it possible that Canada and United States

■■i->i

in its ejcte'nsion it will become less

liberal, that while it widens in one-

^ direction, it will narrow down in

another and exclvide the little ones?

was
enacted. It remained in force ijntil
On a certain day, in a certain year it
was repealed by the focidy that enacted
it. The Ooercion JUU was passed b

III .

•w', r

THE 0UUPKRaj:vf:nTON DliBATr..

the nritJHh ParliiiiiH'nt. It r.Miiiiiiie<l
in forcft uiUil tlio ollni diy tlm Hi'i-
tisli I'jii-liiiiiii'iit I'fjMMilcd it. 'I"l}<»
ynir, iiiMiilli iiiul iliiy wlu'ii it wi^^ "'•
jM'iilud am liiv iMiiiilftl nut to , you.
Now 1 liiivc provt'd t.liiit iiituiits \v»'i(i
put in tliu loMiiiUit of 'A^wi^ l.y jiosi-
tive (livint^ t'lmclnn'iit, uiul tlu'ir ri^'lit
to uicitihtTNliip imist nMuiviti intiu-t
until tln! la\s' ;.;iviiim iIkmu this riylit
ig ii.pwiUid ' l>y «livin« authority.
Christ (lid not ivpcid it, oh th.i «:on-
trarv lio rt-atfir.niiid it Ijy thJilaiin;: of
infants, *'of s«ih is th<a KinK<l<»'" •'*'
r Hi'avtM),'' oriil'f»thi'r wonls that ihoy
Vx^long to his kJn;.'doin. IVtcr did not
rept'al it, hut i»i alHrnicd it l>y «-xpr«'.s.s.
ly dt'chviing tiiat '"Thw pron»iM>. is unto
you and your cliildn'ti." 'I'Ih' H^^ht of
infants to n-niain iu/tho church and
i-fjcuive the ordinanc«» «rf- reco^nntion as
mcinlH'rs HMiiains intat.t, Christ and
Pctor hciiii,' thf" jud^^'i's. -

. Ajraili, how did ihis .-^ postli-s undt'r- -
■ Htaiid tK»; foiilniissioii \vh<'iijli«-y wt'iit
out aft(-r thc^(lay of P<•nt(•l•o^t. to dis-
ciple tiu\ nation's? It wiis tho uni
fowrpi'act.ice cif tlu! Ap)stl«'s to hap-
tizeThe households oi' families of tliH*-
con vei t s, The (hovk word t ranslutod
|jouso:hi)ld in all thos(« instaiici's ^ is
(riikos) which moan*; childrhi hy nn-
turnl g(M»(!iatii»n It doJN'i not mean
don)«.sti^s <»r servants (oikia),inay in-
X elude servants; hut (oilcos) n(-v<-f

dpea. *■ -^

I have not to prwve that all tlw
fanlilips that Were hapiized include»l'
infants, for if T proVe that whole fam-
ilies vs ere 'baptized as Jthe ordinary
jii^actiee «ff the Al)o«tles,^l eslid)Ush
• iny proposition. ' >Iy «»i)poiient may
Wiythat I cannot pro,ve that thete
were infiim^^ in any of these bi^ptiml

hap«, wer<> oldonongh to believe, hu
in the caHe of Lydia, Aot4 16: 14-1;'),
no on«! helii'Ved hut hersfflf, yet nhe
<iiid her faunly were baptized. The
Lord "opened her heart." " Hhe at-
tended unto the, things that weie
spi.Uen of Paul" and " ske was bap-
tized alul her family," then, she said,
" If'ye hav«! jud^jed mo (not Us) faith-
fid to tho L«)rd, come into my houne
and altide there. There is n<»t « wi»rd
about "oiieninK anyone else's heart,
or " attendifif,' to" (.r V believing."
The wordH apply exclusively to
Lydia, yet her family was baptized.

The."Syriao Versioe of tho^New Tes-
tanient i» acknowledged to lie the
niost ancient, as well as one of the
most acourat(5 versituis extant.- It
was miwle at leaA as, e'^rlv as the be-
ginninfjf'of the s»!con<l century, in the
very country where the Apostles lived
and wrote, and where b<»th Syriac and
(Si^M'U were constantly used and per-
fectly un(h'rstood. It was executed
by those who understb(«l and npoke
both languages jirecisely, as the sacred
writers themselves, u derstood npd
spoke them. Such a version, thus
executed, was indoj-sed by the whole
body of the Apostolic age, and the
Vast scholarship of the whole Syrian
church. Its "rendering, therefore of
this passage, must be of the greatest
moment,..for, it wjas tho spoken lan-
guage of the Lofd Jesus Chri-t and
h is pec«j>le i u Hi-r-day on earth This
.S>hiac ^^ei^ion renders the passage
j( Scott's Comiaentary), 'VWhen she
warf baptized and the children of her
h«)use;" This settles -.^lie matter, I
have furiiishe<l a command founcl in
th<i comirnssion and an instance whei-e
a word is uned that signified infant

childi-en antl itii i-xainple. — Thati of
i )^lia ' ,;

There wa« ah*o the oaptiRni oi"
Crispins and his fAmily (oikos) Acts
18: 8 iMie liaptism of the family
(oiko8)of Stephawis, I Cor. 1: 16

/cI

families ..^

In the case of tlie.^Jii;ile»V who was

l)hpjiized'"and all j^is," it is said, he

rejoiced believitig in (.J')d; with all his

diouse." Here, others l)el eved Wsides

the Jwilef. Some of his children^ per-

slievfl, bu^
Ifi: 14-15,
f, y«t Hh«
izod. Tlin

'•HIm' at-
tliiit wcie

WHH l>ap-
, hIio siiid,

Um) fiiith-

iiiy lifm»«
n<»t n wi»r«l

ii«li(Win;j."
j,iv»s|y t«»

l))lf>tiz«Ml.

o^New 'I'ttH-

U) l)« th«

me of tli«

BXtlUlt.' It

lis the lie-
nry, in the
iDHtlos lived

Sy riac and
!d and per-
is executed

and upoke
is the sacred
istood npd
sr.siQn, thus
r the whole
re, and the
hole Syrian
therefose of
the {greatest
spoken Ian-

Chri t and
earth This
the passage
'When she
dren of her
\e matter, I
nd found in
stance whei-e
tiiHed infant
le. Tha-; of

THK COOPElltEVERTON DEBATE. ,. ;' r «

MR. LEVERTOil'S THIRD REPLY.

The l)p.ritisin of Cornelius, "Thou »n«i
all thy family (oik«w) A«is 10: ;J7-4H.
We have tive houH«'hol(lH or families
baptized. It devolveH upon my np
pomtnt to prove that th«' nations did
not include infants, and that thene
^ve Impti/.Hil faiiiilies did n t include
mfants. (i1«hI, by positive enactment
put infants into his church and ji[av»i
them the seal of Covenant Mercies,
It foUows that until this divine posi-
tive enactment is n^pealed they must
remain in the church and thry are
entitled to tluMBcal and si«n of rwA)<^-
nition as meuiwrs of (IckI's Kingdom.
We have proved that Chri t did not
repeal this <Uvine positive enactnuMit.
Peter did not repeal it, nor ilid any of
the ^p sties.
' Christ says infants belonji; to II im
Of to His Kinf^dom. Peter says,
••The promise is unto you and to your
children." Peter and Paul bapti/o
whole families, including infants.-
Jn'ow, will my opponent answer these
ttrguments, at least will h-^ make an
ettort to do so, will he examine the
meaning of the Or.-ek word tratislated

, Mil. CiiAiuMAv, Kathkj^ ani»Okntlk,
MKN, -My oiil'oni'nt i«HniiYHm»'M by ro«

ft^rrinj,' again to Mark 1<V. .l'*NH" **"y»»
if Mark 10 : 10 applies to' infan^theii
the Hcrij)ture «lanin» thftm. . I nave
stated twi(;(' that tiiat, dues tjot apply
to infants. ' Ho said that; baptism huc
ccedfd cirtunuisi«»n, 'I'he law said
that the seal of cir«uiM«'i«i<»i» "lu^t Ins
put at fight «lrtj^ ,>t" *4tgft, 1I« wvyii
this law has litA. been K^pealt-d, if so
,it must still b« in force, aiitl yet niy
opponent says you can put on the sert,l
whenever you likte, No\y, refen-ing to
thy answer Ptter gave in Acts : '""rie.
pent every olio of you,'.' etc. 1 !•<' sayn j
this included the childitm .: "Ami ye
shall receive the H»>ly, Gliost." If
they repenttjil and were Uttptizeil^they
received the Holy' Spirit "for the pro^
misB is to you and your lihildren."
.; The promise was the gift of the lloly
Ghost, and it w^as to b(<J.o the children
as well. Does ••childre#" always mean
iiiuimiiifs oi 1.11.3 vjrr. «".""■« V,. ..>,.. — V. «« iriftints ?" The wlfole nation was
children in Acts 2; 39. Will hft e* calletl the child r,en.of Israel. We also
aoiine the oane of Lydia and prove ajpeak of the childro\j^ of men, _ There
that she had no infants in her famiV5nJ_--7ts no proof thivt there were infants,
Will hfi show us that the Syriac ver- / ^nd if there \We, tliey. would come

-• ■ • ' ■■ .!_ 1 I > V_ i:..:. II 1...

sion is wrong f If he does not, and y
know he cannot and I know als(» tli^t
there is not a living man who can
show these arguments and the./»cts
upon which they are based tt» be iu-
correct, then I have proven my propo-
sition ^nd I might let the case rest
here, but I have still to present to you
the historical argument in my next
speech. V . '.

Time expired.'

und«r the JmmH\'onditions. lie asks
Why I nqote(i froin men, I tlid it be-
cause my opponent spont about forty
mi lUtesreding the f([?li,Honi-/>f other
men. '%' brought men of*H11.s 6wn
church t6 'prove my p »int, and
and if they are not roliaVile he must
be going against his own church. He
says it was circufncisiort under the old
dispensation, and baptistn under the
new. This niiiy bo true Vmt he cannot
pi*ove infant »iaf44«>jn audpr tha new,.
I have never Vj(ud that there were no
children in the church, but that they

baptisnx or
(oikos) Acts
'the family

Cor. 1: 16

didn't come in the church under the
ordinance of baptism, ^^^^ ">y oppcm-
jiilt has not brought anythihg to prove

*f,-.- *r'

THK COOPKK LKVRRTON

DEBATE.

tin ulso
pcuiBci-
tingjotf

lh«t they should l>« Wptixed. Agnin
hft referred U> the two hou«ph<»ldM, i>lf
Lydia and th« jiiilnr. I sliowod
t)tat lh«y UtlUiVHil mid itijoiood to-
g<!>ther. FnfiuitH could not ri'joipo in
the Koiwn M{Hikttii of. With r<'f«rcin«!**
to HoinanH 3 : 25, " Whom Ood hath
■et forth to b« a propitiation through
faith ill his hl(MMl, todHolaro IliH right
eousneiiii for thu reiuiHHion of h'uih that
are past," and Hob, 9: 26. •• Hut now
onoe in the «nd of th« world hath h«
appeared to put away h'ui by the mrc-
irifice of hininelf." We (jUOteJ textJ»%,
to you biHt night to hIiow that t^W*
shedding of bl(M>d waM neoenHary for
the remiMion of Hiu. Does that prove
that infants aro proper oiindidatoH for
baptism? Col. 2: 1 1, "In whom ulso
ye are ciroumHiled with the circur
iion made without hands in putt ^^
the body of the sins of the fletih by
the circumcision of Christ." Ac
cording to this passage the way uiy
brother has quoted it, It makes tho
poor darling children sinneri Then
John was mistaken when he said: "Be-
hold the lamb of (lod that taJccth
away the »IN ot tlm \v<nld." The t;«'xt
applies to thoHe who have iitinned Im'
fore God and they must first njpent
and t^en come8 the putting off of the
siusofCTie flesh by a burial in bup
tism, putting ajvay the aipi that are
past. T nni, aKtonished at a learns*!
man wiying fhildren could ilo that
About the seal of the covenant. I be-
lieve that children are in the church,
and that God has provided a law by
/ which they are receded into it 2 Cor.
1: 22, "Who hath also sealed us and
given the earnest of the spiril in our
hearts." Rom 4: 11, "And he re-
ceived the sign of circumcision, a seal
of the righteou.«n(<ss of the faith which

seal of the n*w eovenani, Eph. 4-80,
"The Holy Spirit of (l<»d whereby ye
are Healed unto the <lay of reilemption
my frienit says infant baptism in the
neat of the new covenant. Hut the
Hible sayn the Holy Spirit is the seal.
He said that children were in as good
a p«iHition to be baptiseii as a thief or
a robber when he repents. I my they
are in a better position liecause they
do not need baptism to remit their

sin.

fitting them in the same jHwition
^as a robber is imp)iting sin to them,
which is absurd, for infant children
are ab-solved from all sin through the
atonemetjt of Christ, and Jesus Haya of
such is the kingdom of Heaven. Ex.
13: 9-40, "And it shall l»e a sign
with thee upon thine hand, etc There
the sign is to be in the hand. Verse
U, "And it shall be when thy son
aslteth thee in time to come saying,
What is this! that thou sh'ilt say,
by strength o»f hand the Lord Vjrought
us up out ai Egypt." Here there is
to be a token or sign in the hand of
the servant of the Lord, i • bringing
them out «>f Egypt How did Christ-
i»a»s receive the sual of th»> H«»ly Cov-
enant ? Acts 8: 17, "Then laid they
their hands upon them ami they re-
ceived the Holy Ghost." Th s was
the seal of the Holy C(»vcnant, given
l»y the hiying <»n of hands. Was the
seal ever known to be placed on any
one by sprinklin;^ ! Thuio lias got to
be an imprassiou in sealinti;. Again in
Acts I'J: G, "And whcMi Paul had
laid hii* hands on thf ui they received
the Holy Ghost." It was after they
were l»ap ized that ho laid his hands
on them. In Matt. 19: 15, We finel^
hov Christ placed the Seal on the
children, ''and he laid his hands on

Tie nau, yei
The holy spirit of (Uwl is the seal.
Eph. J: 13, " In whom also after that
yiti believed ye were sealefl with that
Holy Spirit of promise, '''^••" '" '^^

Thi.s is the

them. In Mark 10; 1 3, " H is disci-
ples rebuked them for bringing the
children " The inferance is that the
disciples understood that little chilel-

F "Ptiw^WIJ^ ' '"

Eph. 4-80,

wlinrrthy J"

rmlniiiptiuii

ttbiii in tlie

Liut tho

in tllA Mttl.
> ill IW 4?<»0<1

iH a thinf or

1 Huy tli«y

iflciiuHd tliny

roiiiit their

^iiiB {MiHttion
III to thoiii,
lilt oliiUlreri
through thft
J«HUH Muya of
eavQu. Ex.
1 \m a sign
I, etc There
and. Verue
leii thy son
oiiie iiayiug,
I shilt Hny,
jord Vjrouyht
[ere theii) in
the huiid of
i . bringing
V ditl Christ-
um Holy Cov-
leii laid they
uiul they re- .
" Th 8 was
•pnant, given
l.s. Was the
aced on any
u has got to
if. Again in
111 Paul had
they received
n after they
lid his hands
15,We fiael^
Seal on the
uis liands on

m.or s prin
^ "fl is disci-
bringing the
!e is that the
t little child-

THE COOPERLEVERTON bEBATE.

wn were to be feceivwl by rio.ne other Baptw.n U. he •wi*"'"'"^'**' '"'y ^

way then baptir. then., but .lo.u. thmn that Imheve. Circun.ciHlon wan

riV" HulTer tlum. to con,: to nvo." etc. U. U adniinUtored on the eight J day

Who-oever Hhall not receive the king . that wan the law .K'»^'';;'»"'« '^ . . '

dom of heaven an a little chiUl Khali JwiptiHm Hucu^eedn 4t ^»'«" ' *Pjr*"

not enter therein. Adultn receive,l nhuuld m. a.hnuuH..r.<l on the ghth

the seal of the .ovenant through the day. My op,HHien -nay- it shnuldn t

laying on of handn. and here JenUH- Where d.ien he tbid that repmle,! It

blLcd the ehiUlreii by laying on of was «o„.|mlHory. but ho says baptism

handH ThUiH how they w,.ie H.«de<l in not. There wan <.nly on.. «a> <rf

and the only way pointed out by plucing th. H..al of circumciHion uu

w lich they were Liived by Chiint but he nayn th...e •^'•^ '-J-'y ^'^ "

, , , ■' 1 1 ».,i ..,.,., ,,i«,„fc i.....t ■« 111* (Villi It iltiMHii t niutier wiucu
into the church. And »ow alMtuc

Philip and the 'Eunuch, Act« H; 47.
My opponents MavH that was an inter
polatl -n where Philip s«yst, "If thou
believ«.st with all thine heart thou
niayst." If that, was true doctiine
then everyone would he jMd l«t jfche
Hame position. If he Wm ree«ived

baptizing, and it d.Mwn't niattei^whiclr
you tak". CircunifiHron wiw nob ful»
the reiniHHion of siiiM, but baptinin in.
ill Acts J; 3«, it Hays, " Repent «»ery
on« <if you and b* baptised for th*
iriui.sHion of sins. Yef ray opponent
nays it succeeds cinuii>cii*ion A gain,
circumcision was t<» he adniinistered

same position. ii ne ww« irv^i*"« — -- •- ■ ,*»».„ »u^v Mv

without faith it wouW be disobey, „g only on one '»«'"»>*;f "V L hndv wifl

God. The translators of the revised
version say that simw a(»rcient authori-
ties inserted the vtJTH*-, and they left
it out of the t xt and put it in the
margiA. Were not the ancient au
thorities m good as these modern ones'?
If we take t^ut out it just proves
that'ev(!ryone is to be Ivjiptiztui with-
out faith. I w»<8 asked tdsliow that
God repealed the law of circMUu-ision.
I think i^veryone knows that it is
said, "Christ is the end of the law
for righteousness to every on<' thut be-
beveth,-' and thfn in H<^biews 7: Ii
we read, " For the priestljtH»d heing
changed there is iniule ofr lieci^ssity a
change also of the law. " There was-a
change made by which children were
received into tho church, and this ex-
Clude<l circumcision. Baptism do«'s
ijlQt Succeed circumcision because it is
plainly pointed out tliat it cann(tt by
the 'aw8 governing it. ^.y opponent
has not brought one text t'loin the Bi
ble to prove it. gives only Ute opinions

friend says any part of the body wdl
do. Uidess they were circumsized
they were cutoff from the people. He
showed tlmt a littln child may he bap-
tised, but that doesn't make it a tho-. ,
rough luember t»f the church because
you hftve to preach to it after it hu*
come to 3fe«rs of accountability. Ifc
has to l»e i*ttt on the penitent f«»nn
ami converted, and then put ojj^ix
months j>rohation before l>ecoinil% a
meinl)er. He says they were received •
by eircumcision, and wore not in the
thurch if not circuiu<:ized, ami yet were
i-ut oil' from the Lnheritiinee of wbich
it was a ^«i«i>- H tl«t'y Hrenotbap-
timl then in follows that they are cut
.iff from the everlasting inheritanoe.
Circunicision required no faith, but
baptism does. It requires faith and
repentance for the putting away of the
oUl man. Circumcision did not repre-
sent the burial of GKrist, baptism does,
as we di.scover from the new Testa-
ment. If you have been planted to-

ii--

of men. Circumcisu»n wus tor inaies

e-ether in the likeness of liis death yott
uldy ^'Ba^ismliT to all wlio believe.-- sliall also bp injhe Jikehess of his
imile and female. Circumeision to be resarrectiofi. , \^^ ^ ,

administered -only to Siafe uifauts^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - "7^^ expirea. -

■. \

THE OOOPER-LEVERTON DKBATB.

MR. COOPER'S FOURTH SPEECH.

Mil. CiiAt SMAH, Ladies ajid Q extlb-
MBX : —I will briefly review iny oppt^n-
ent's arguments and then proceed with
my final argument in support of the
proposition I ttflSrm My opponent
speaks very loudly when he tells you
infants cannot believe and therefor
should be rejected. He reminds nie
of the butchers dog Noble, tha*i I read
about .somewhere and examples of
which I have oft-n seen. The dog
ran 'o a hollow tree, stuck his no^e in
the hole and barked loudly and fur-
iously. All the boys ran, too, think-
ing that the dog had treed a coon or
fox, but they found upon examination
that there was nothing in the tree.
Every time the dog passed that tree
he would run and bark furiously and
for several days he kept up the bark-
ing, though there was nothing there.
The boys having bfeen fooled once re-
fused to notice the dog. It didn't
matter the dog kept on barking.
(Laughter.) So my friend goes to a
text And shouts as though he had a
real objection to infant baptism, we
are like the boys, we run to see what
he has got and find that he has notii-
ing. ( Laughter.) It does not matter
he goas fn)in Mark Ki: 16, to the
eunuch, aijd from the Jailer to Lydia
and b.ick again from Lydia and the
Jailer, mid from the eunuch to Mark
H'r. 16, backward and forward I am
reminded of an old lady that I rea 1
about who was afraid she would lose
her bjiggage so she kept on repeating ;
big bijx,, little box, band box and
bundle Then she would begin at the
other etid, go back again, bundle,
band box, little box and big box.
( Laugh ttM.) So my friend does and
wil l do, not because he is not a good

real valid objections to infant bap-
tism. ■.■■.■. ■■ 2. ■"•■•'•■ '

My opponent noi*^ gives up Mark
16: 16 and acknowledges that it does
no:> upply to the children. He says
by applying baptism to infants we
make them sinners. No, we do not,
we recognize that they are saved
through Christ. We do not make
them members of the church. They
are already members of his church
because he put them in it and we re-
cognize them in their relationship to
Christ.

My friend says there Were no in-
fjihts in the family of Cornelius, nor.
in the family of Stephanus, nor in the
the family of Urispus, nor in the fam-
ily of the Jailor, nor iri the family of
Lydia. He says Lydia vi^as an old
maid, or a widow, without children.
Now;, how do3s my friend know all
this? He says he does not want in-
ferences ayd yet his whole . argument
is bifjed upon inferences. He has no
"Thus saith the Lord," for what he
has been telling you. He says Lydia ""
was in a shop and then asks how many
shop-keepers have children. I think
if he were to visittheshops of Tilbury
Centre he would find children in most
of them, at least -most of the shop-
keejiers have children and many of
the children are infants. If the fam-
ilies baptizcid by the Apostles had no
infants in thain they were different
from most families. It is possible to
find a household without infants, but
to go out and baptize several whole
families and find no infants in them
would be a strange thing. From the
fact th t families generally include in-
fants, we have a right to expect that
they would be found in the whole,
families baptized by the Apf»stles, ...^
and from the fact th:vt to find in- "
fantsin families is the rule and not
the exception. He has no right to infer*
that ther e w e r e no infmts inthefam-

debater, but because he can find no ilies baptized in the New Testaiqeufc.,

"Jl»:"

tfunt bap-

up Murk
lit it does

He says
nfunts' we
re do not,
itre saved
not make
ch. They
lis church
nd we re-
ionshlp to

sre no in-
lelius, nor.
nor in the
I the iaiii-

family of
as ail old
^ children.

know all

want in-

arguinent

ie has no

what he
lys Lydia "^
how many
I think
of Tilbury
in in most
thft shop-

ipany of
'the fam-
is had no

different
Dssiblo 'to
fants, but
ral whole
I in them
From the
nelule in-
scpeet that
be whole,

Apfjstles,
J liiid in-
i and not
It to infer*
ntlie fam-
'estaiqeut.

'■•:?!*

tHl5 COOP^n-LEVEnTON DteBATl2.

He 8<y8 children cannot repent, can-
not believe, cannot bear, oannot be
called I think they can hear and l.o
called, and T showed you that God
ca led children " from the womb."
Kepentance and faith are not required
of children in order to salvation and
hence not required of them in order to
baptism. Without repentance and
faith the infant is just where thtj
adulic is with repentaiice juid fiiitb,
♦'except ye bo converted and l)ecotne
as a little child ye cannot see the
kingdom of God," Tf the adult is
baptized because he is like his child,
surely the child may be baptized lie-
cause he is like himself. He asks
*« how can infants come to the Lord ?"
I reply, when Jesus said, " Suffer the
little children to come unto me," their
mothers brought them, that is how
they came. It might be objected that
Jesus did not invite -the infants be-
cause they could not come or walk
with equal force tFRit it is urged they
cannot be called. But it is objected
that baptism is not understood, and
therefore can do the child no good,^
says my friend. Becaus^a child does
not understand the texture of the gar-
ments it wears, can they do it no good?
Because a child does not under-
stand the nature of the milk it drinks
can the millj do it no good? Because
the children did not understand why
Christ put his hands on their heads
and blessed them, could His blessing
do no good ? J^ecause infants did not
understand tliS^ meaning of circumci-
sion, could it do them no good? This
would be charging God himself with
folly. Because infants could not un-
.Ljierstand the covenant mercies did
thoy receive no benefits from tlve cove-
nants ? When God assembled his

infants
■■>• IP). "Gather

I will now give you iny final argument
in favor of infant baptism.

.My fifth argument will prove that
the history of the Church of God fur-
nishes us with the most absolute and
convincing proof that infants havo „
been received into the Church of God
by baptism from the days of the
Apostles down to the present time.-

Infant Ijaptism >Vas never question-
ed for over a thousand years of the
christian era From the days of
Christ till about the middle of the
twelfth century, no s ct or party, no
person whatever, denied or even ques-
tioned the validity of the ordinance as
administered to infant children. I
want this audience to bear
in mind that these historic witnesses
are introduced to testify to facts, his-
torical facts, and not to opinions.
Their opinions may, be of very little
value, but their testimony to tacts is
()f great value and unimpeachable.

The first whose testimony I intro-
duce is Augustine, who was born
about 251 years after the death of St.
John. In his celebrated controersy

church together he had the
also brought. Joel 2

with Pelagius, on original sin, he
pre-sed his antagonist with the con-
stant and universal practice of bap-
lizing infants. He says : "The whole
church has of old constantly held .
that baptized infants do obtain remis-
sion of original sin by the baptism of
Christ. For ray part I do not remem-
ber that I evgr heard at^ny other thing
from any Christian that received the
Old and New Testaments, neither
from such as weriej in the Oatholio
Church, nor yet from such as belonged
to any sect or schism I do nOt re-
meniboi- that I ever read otherwise, in
any writer I could ever.find treating
of these matters, that f olio wetl the
canonical Scriptures, or did ro^an, of
pretend to do so." The fact pi fhe

the people, * * * and those that suck , unive.'sal practice of infant bj-ptism
the breasts," Having replied to all in the church could not possibljr^have
my friends argumeat| that I remenabpf been more strongly presented

' }

j%\

jthanit

THE COOPER-LEVEBTON t)EBAtB.

is here bj Augustine. It' infant bap-
tism was not the universal practice of
the church, Augustine laid hiintfelt'
open couipletely to defeat ; and it was
only n0pessary for Pelagius to show
that there >yas no such practice in the
church, or to have shown that it was .
an innovation, as certainly he could
have done at that time if such had
been the case But instead of this he
Bays : *' Men slander me, as if I de-
nied the sacrament of baptism to in-
fants. I never heard even an impious
heretic say they ough^ not to be ba'p-
tized For who is so ignorant of the
evangelical writings as to have such a
«>• thought? Who can be so impious as
to hinder infants from being baptized."
Thus we introduce Pelagius as our se-
cond witnedd, and he is an important
one. We have nothing to do Ijere
with the opinion of Auguitine that
the baptism of infants was for the remis-
sion of original sin horVith the opin-
ion of PelSgius that there was no
such thing as, original sin inherent in
our nature. Their testimony to a fact,
not an opinion, is ■ what we want, and
their testimony to the fact of infant
baptism is clear and beyond question^
Our third witness is Origin, who was
born about eighty-tive years after the
death of Ht. John. He was one of
the most learned of the early fathers,
and descendetl from christian parents.
His ancestry for three generations had
been Christian^ His father suffered
martyrdom. Such a man must have
been familiar with the customs a id
practices of the church, from the Apos-
tolic age. He travelled extensively in
all parts of the world where churches
bad been established, spending most of
his life in Syria and Palestine, where
the first churches were planted by the
Apostles themselves. He says : "The

ch'urph had from the Apostles them-
selves an injuntion to give baptism to
infants." Again, in his homily in
Luke, he says; ''I will mention a

thing that causes frequent inquiries
Anmng the brothren— infants are bap-
tized for the forgiveness of ftin." I
have nothing to do with the opinion
now of Origin that baptism of infants
was for the remission of sin. lam
not discussing that proposition- now
but settling the fact of the practice of
infant baptism in that age.

Our fourth witness is Cyprian, who
was cdtemporary with Origin. He
presided over a Council of sixty-six
bishops, held at Oarthage, about 150
years after the death of St. •fohn,'pne
Fidus, a country pastor, had raised the
tpiestion whether a child ought to be
baptized before it was eight days old.
This question was submitted by letter
to the sixty-six bishops, who, after due
consideration," returned the following
answer;— Oyprian and others of the
college of bishops who were present,
sixtyrsix in number, to Fidus, - our
brother, greeting : We read your
letter most dear brother, etc., so far
as it pertains to the case of infants,
whom you think oiight not to be baptiz-
ed within the seconder third day from
their birth ; and that the ancient law
of circumcision should be observed, so
that none should be baptized and sanc-
tified before the eighth day after birth;
it seemed, to all in our council, Other-
Avise. For as to what you proposed to
be done, there was not^one of your
opinion, but on the.- contrary, it was
our unanimous decision that the grace
and mercy of God should not be de-
nied to any as soon as bora." Now
the validity of infant baptism was
iiot the question submitted at all. The
queatiod submitted submitted t-o. the
Council was whether infants might be
baptized before they were eight days
old. The council decided that they
might be baptized as soon as they

wercyborn. Here we have the testi-
mony not of Cyprian alone «but the
testimony of sixty-six bishops ol the.,
church I n^enof inteUi|;ence, tnenwho-

it inquiries
ita are bap-
at Rin." I
the opinion
1 of infants
nn. I am
isition' now
I practice of

prian,

who

■igin. He
i)f sixty-six
about 150
1. John,'pne
i raised the
ought to be
it days old.
id by letter
0, after due
le following
hers of the
ire present,
Fidus, -our
road your
etc., so far
of infants,
}o be baptiz-
rd day from
ancient law
observed, so
id and sane-
after birth;
incil, other-
proposed to
>ne of your
rary, it was
i.t the grace
not be de-
aril." Now
iptism was
at all. The
tted t-o. the
its might be
! eight days
I that they
>pn as they

3 the testis
ine (but the
biops of the
;e, men who

THE COOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE.

53-

must have known if infant baptism
were the practice of the church, ami
who must have known if it were an
innovation. That it was tl«* pi aetice
of the church at that time, a 150 -
years after the death of St. John
is beyond all question, and tijat it was
not »n innovation is e<iually certain.

Our fifth witness is Tertullian, \vh»)
was born about 50 years jifter tlu»
death of St, John. He never once
questioned the validity of infant bap-
tism. He«wrgea delay, for he held
that all" l^tafc^^P' actual and oiigiu.
al, was w^H^ay »n baptism. He
aiivM • " /flMmiC to everyone'^ con-
dition and disposition, and also then-
age, the d laying of baptism is more
profitable, especially in the case ef lit-
tle children.'^ He also says : " For no
less a reason, unmarried persons ought
to be kept off, who are likely to come
into temptation as well as those that
never were married, upon the account
of their coming to ripeness," etc. The
baptism of infants or unmarried per-
sons was not a rfjatter of validity with
Tertullwn, but a matter of delay.

Our next witness is Irenaeus, Bishop
of Lyons, a man eminent for his piety
and learning. He was born a*)out the
time of the death of St John. He
was himself discipled by Polycarp,
who was a disciple of St. John, and
intimately acquainted with St. John.
' He says he can remember St. Johns
wortls and bow he looked when pfe'ich-
ing. He savs, " The church learned
from the Af5stles to baptize children.
The baptism of infant"is was uhques-
tionably practiced by the chujchat
the time when Irenaeus wrote or he
certainly would not have mentioned
it and he declares that the practice
was of apostolic origin. " The church
learned from the apostles to bapt ze
children." Irenaeus must have known

what lie was writing about, and he is
worthy of l«lief. Again he says
speaking of Christ, "He came to siv)/i'

all persons by himself, all I say, who

are reg«"«'"^«^* ^^ '"'" ""*^^* ' *"'
fants, and little -children, and young
men ami old men;" It is certain that
in using the term regenerate he re-
ferred to water l.aptism. The editor
of IreiuM^us in a note, says this refers
to l>aptism. The greavt historian, '
Philip Schaff, also Steit/., and the
.rit-ai historians, Kisher, H ist, pp ■* I j
?)7, 84, and Kurt/, Hist. p. 1 tU. Ml
prove that iegenerati<m heie ifvused
for baptism, so that there <icn be no
dispute aliout it Then, ..ccording to
Irenaeus infants were bftptizfil »" "«
day which went back to the death pf
St John. I might introduce many
other wimesses but I have n(» time
m>w, T will introduce one more.

The last witness that 1 sihall intro-
duce is Justin Martyr, who was I .or ^
five years before the death of St. Jt*n,
and who wio^e alxiut S-') years after
the deatli of John. He says : " Seve-
ral persons among us, of sixty and
seventy years old, of both sexes, who
were made disciples to Christ in their
infancy, continue uncorrupted." He
uses the very term which our Loj'd
uses in his great commission to make
disciples of all nations (emathetenthe-
aan.) Tfhese persons were made dis-
ciples in their infancy (ek paidon), and
therefore must have been discipled A.
D 65 and 76, in the apostolic age, and
from 25 to 30 years liefore the death
of St. John. To be made disciples
they must have been baptiz d, for the
commission says, " Make disciples of
ail nations, baptizing' them," etc. He
also says in his " Questions and An-
swers to the ♦rthodox." The infant
(te brephe), of the good are deemed
worthy of baptism, through the faith
of those who bring them to be bap-
tised. Justin Martyr certainly was a
competent witness and his testimony

■|j'

is conclusive.

No historic fact whatever is suscep-
tible of larger, stronger, or more posi

84' •' ■ 'Ulb COOPER-L^fHRTON DEBATE. v '

■'.■■■^ ■''-"-■'•§! ■■■-'•■ »••■■■-«■ ••,,;'•:.:■::.■,';■

^ tive proof than f.\u%t intaiit IwiptiHin v«ut .shouting f i- it. Notwithstanding the
"the practice ^•►ft'c vjHJstolic Church', fact that J' hav« fuJly ajisw^^wd his
^ Perhaps no other ninit evermore thor- ai-gilij.ents. he will gp on to Mark 16:
oughly i^vp.stigllted-tll^^|llisk^^y of in- 16; the fiernuch, the Jailer and T^ydia
fftut bapt sni ihiiflk did Dr. Wait. Mi^i rehasiirng all the ^tiuie, and though I
work is a standaVd/ Having survey- have quoted more" Scripture by far-
«d.theh »whole (ield he mi^eH the fol- jgthan he has he will still ask for Scrip-
lowing summary. (Wall, vol, 2, chap, <^ture. f He will tell you that I have
jc, p.SOi ) "J^astly, ais, these evidences proved nothing aud'perhaps that he '
&re for the, first four ^hundred years, in Fuis nothing to reply tfl> 'He reminds
which there appears ono tian, TertuI- one of tjife boy who saw in the road
"Jian, that advised the delay^f infant an object. He made up his mind he
baptism in some cases; and one Ore- would kick it, buVas be approached it
gory, that ditl,t ptnlkps, pr;ictice sucli , he found'^lmt it. looked very hard
doJay in the c^se of his children, but and he cimcluded that if heTiickedit,
no\*ociety of tiieii so thinking or so it would huft his toes, so.lie did not

kf9k it 4 lily friend will talk for V
Vhile but he will only .talk t<) kill-
time, he will not'^. reply t<> my ai-gu-
iHtnts. He wyi not examine*' iny
' 8*^.a(enients, jis to the meaning of the
Oreek wgrd (tecknon). He will not
examine my statements as >x) the fami-'
ly of Lydia, "The infant children of
her ho se " . He will not attempt to'
refute the historical ariruuient just
given by me* My friend has entirely
failed to overthrow niy position. I
have thei-efore established it beyond
<jue«sti<m.

Will h'*, before closing, point out ,
to nie the chapter and verse where.
(Jod ever abrogated infant churqh
membership? '.:'[-■;■■

ladies and gentlemen, I now leave
the question for your thoughtful con.
Siderrition,

pi'acticing ; nor no one man saying it
•was unlawful to baptize infants ; soin
the m.'x;t 70W years there Js not so
jBiuchias ehB^ymuj to l)e,' found that
either sjppke forN^j; practised any such.!
del'iy. But jbII: contrary. .Vnd whex>
^a'out the yea*' A. D. 1130, 6ne sect
Among the Albigencesde<*lared against
' the baptizing of if ants, as being in-
. capable of salvation, the main body of
. that people rejected their opinion and
thos of them t\uit held that o[)inion
quic'ry dwindled away and di.sappejtr-
ed there beiu;i U?) more heardof holding
that tenet till the ri.sing of the (Jei^
man Anti-Ped(»biiptists ,^ aniM), 1.522.
With the exception of wwinr^mall .sect
in the 1 2th century. jv» nian, person or
sect can lie found, fiom the Apostles
down to the sixteenth century, who
denied or even called in question the
validity of infant baptism."

I have now jwesented to you argu-
ments that I t.uow cannot be answer-
ed, in favor of infant l)aptisn>. ' Will
my opponent even try t() reply
to them? No, he 'know.n he can-
not. But he will again tell you that'
I Ivave not given Scrip'titre and that
there is no command, no exaiiiple, and
lie will shont for a chapter and verse

Time expired.

MR. LEVERTON'S FOURTH REPLY.

Mil. fJiiAiRiwAN, Ladies and Gentle-
men -When time was called I wa8dw:eH-

where infant baptistn is found It in{»^ni^the point of circunicision repre
matters not that I hive given the sehting the burial of Christ. Bap
chapter and verse he. will go right on tism does repre^sent thils but oircum

•glad

tanding the
[iBw^Md his
Mark 16 :
iind Lydia
d^ though I
.ure by far-,
k for Scrip-
hat I have
,p8 that he
Idle reminds
h the road
is mind he
pf<>ached it
very hard
i^tiickedk,
tie did not
talk for H'
dlk t() kill-
>i my ai-gu-
amine** my
ring of the
le will not
lO the fami-'
drildren of
afctemp't to'
uient just
as entirely
osition. I
it beyond

point out ,
irae where »
at qhurqh

now leave'
;htful con.

REPLY.^

dGentle-
wasdwell-

,\i

■■<"*•■

-*i

*>.■■

THE COOPER-LEVERTON^^DfeBAtE.

Sft

oision does not. • ^fy Opponent says
** disciple all nations" di?«w not mean
to dip them. Doesn't teaching inclddei
■discipling the nation,? TheVe are two

kinds of teaching, one, 18 teaching be- ^ , , ..

-ftn-e they are baptized #nd aftw they" a word aliout feceivmg theni by water,
are biiptized. They are to be taught if circuincision /lft^ not repealed but
tt» observe '^ all things." Thi^ propo- ' simply transferred/rtJm one liifeni bgr «f

I never said eh'at children were
put out> hor that they- were nat
in the church. I have shown you
that 'the law was changed. , Ghript
received the children, out did not say

sition says, that "infant baptism is
of Bible aiithorityv I am accused of
travelling all ovek-i«lie Bible, bu£ I will
still keep within the standard to prove
this Vop**^^^^"" to be faW. My op-*
ponent has not only travelled over thfe
Bible but has gone back into History
until before Christ.. - Isa. 24: i), says:
"There was to have been a falling
a^i^y. ' The earth aKso is defiled under

the* body: Gen. 17: 23, tiV aiiother
member of the body," the KejM't: Then -
circuuieision has not been ^repealedj v
only that it is converted froiii^prnal'v
to spiritual cirpuincision. Tljen' bap-
tism will not,tit'tn with the law. Bap-''
tiam re<ittire8 repentance 'timt, bpt cir-^ .
cumcisign dpes nftt. ; Gircu^icisiwn was '
only for the laaleK. "liaptisin .is to lioth ■
sexes . The Scriptur^ fe»ys there is but .

the inhabitants thereof : becadse they'\ one bi^ptism, Eplf; 4; y, but my oppon
have transgressed the laws ; changed ' ent ^»ys there are many, yr divers bap-,
tfe ordinance ; bwken the everlastiiig ' tisitt^. ' Baptism is a- si^n.. of burial
covenant," n Has my opponent pr.)ve^r.- ' and cirftiitoeision is not. 'Cji^cuiucision
his proposition by our stajidardA the'- was^a sealybuV baptisin is<.niy atoken
n.-i r 't I- .M. ,...-i...j I.:.., *.^ .xUv.,^ aF a uA»l. - God ' has . L'iven 'the

,*Bibie. ^ I have* asked hiui to prove, ^ 6t

^ where an infant has Ijieen baptized, in

the -Bible, but he has nol^ done it. "^He

' says that it required faith lor adults

to be circumcised. " t adfnit that Al>-

raham i^c'eiv6d circu,n>cision at^ tirst

tered at eight days old. 'Again bpsay^
baptism doefnot save the cliild.. .1 am
. glad ; to hear " that,- As "for Christ's
hand* being the s6al, I did not .say
that. T said that Christ's hand Was

placed ^n the children and they re- life in you. Itcannot be on account of
*. 1.1 L.i _r vi.u„ „^:2.:i t* ..,oo w;<>lr<ir1noau.f.h}tt, lAifiv are refu.sed the?

eeived the seal of the spirit, tt v^m
. by blessing them that" he gave theni
the seidof the spirit. Baptism must
alwavS'follow after circumcisit)n, as we
find'ih Luke 2: 21, and Luke 3: 21-
23, "That Jesus was circumcised. at
eight days .old, but not bapti/-ed till

wiekednesst that they are refu.sed the"
«upper. , Then the,, children . are the
best meiiibem -We could have in
church. ^.1 ask my brother to abide
the standard, which is the Bibh
Soma of the authdfrities tliat he qiipf
ed lived when the 'ordinances, virere\

coming i) years of manhood and ui> changed and they . were. govern<>d ap-
dersta^ding " Acts 16: 3, show that " cording to the tradittoiis of the times .
the Gentiles were hot requited, to obey , iti. whibl<^hey lived. .1, have sbojf^n

the law of circumcision i

. Mr. Cooper asked me wh^ did-tmd.

put children -out of thechurc|i4.

yod thAt a oliild hhs no sins to < ^ mit,
that faith is necessary to receive it
and other "things, tjiat a child cannot

Gtwl/ has .Jfjven, the

.token, but has, not repealed it. He

has provided ,the laying on .of hands as

the medium through which thtj seal —

the Holy" SpMt, . ii»i givtMi: Whe»B

jjh^rei^.no law there iJ« no transgreS.-

i^auseJf luSiilh and ^ -.;si6n Children know nolaw, Jo^n 10:

Kut after that it wa^to be SulWrinis-i 4, " Christ came not taaill thehght- - |-

. i . • i^j_.. .1^ . a"„„;.jj<.. «„«i* eous but' sinners to re pen tancfe. ■ It il

children need the baptism they i\eed
tiie Lord's supper. John <j: 53, " Ex-
ceJpt ye eat the flesh \)f the Sou of
Mart and drink liis bhxxl'-ye hrtve no

sion repre-
ist. Bap
ut oircuin

♦■sipr ,

■,-■'•, :W,

THE CIG0|»ER.LEV|:RT0N DEBATE.

do. If Ood accepts tiiem^iihout the
Ordinance of baptism why doejs man
want to interfere and meddle with the
work that ffbd has done. By the sac-
rifice made they are received untiF
they commit sin, then they must re- '
pent, every one of t^em and be bap-,,
tized for the remission of their own
sins— not for Adams sin, Acts 2: 38/

Luther says: " It cannot °be proved
by the sacred Scriptures that infant
baptism was instituted by Chris/, or
begun by the first Christians itft^r the
Apostles."

Neander says: " It cannot possibly

be proved that infant tiaptism was
practised in the Apostolic age." ^

Clurcellaeus says; "^ The baptism of
infants in the first twa. centuries after
Ohrist was altogether unknown; but in
the third, and fourth was allowed
by soiue few. In the fiftli jand follow-
ing ages it was -igenerally received.
The custom of baptising infants did
not begin before the third age af-
ter Ohrist wail born. In the former
ages np trace of it appears and it was
introduced without the command of
Ohrist" >

The

-'■*' .'■,'•■

i:&

\:."'

_i_^p!U_:^,... ^t-_

.■j:r

-+T-V

'.ii&K,

.-v

HptiBm was

»ge." ><
9 baptiKin of
ituries after
lown; butin
^as allowed
jtnd follow-
Y received.
infantH did
rd age^ af-
the foruier
I and it was
3iumand of

1 M f\T'-

'VilW

-Is:

' N.

4-;

'"•■ : _■ ■ , ' -' ■' _*:''■■'■-■■■■. n f ^

THIRD' F»ROPOSmON FOR DISCUSSION.

THE iMMERSlpN OF THF, BOUY IN VVaTEH IS ESSENTIAI. TO SALVATION. •

■^» u

ELnEH LEVERTON AFFIRMS.

*>
U

MR. LEVEitfflN'SFI,RST SPEECH:

Mr. Chairman, La'Ujes ANoGENTLfe-
MEX, — The proDpsltitfn , for this even-

' ing, as has beim read is, The inimorsion
of the body As jBssejitial to " salvation.
It is impossible in discussing this sub
ject ,i||^|Lyoid "icovering vsome df the

isame^round thaV has been covered
before, bulb we bhall touch it as slight-
ly as possible. '

First, let us lookvAt Romans 1:; 16,
"The gospel of Jesus Christ is tlie
power of jpod^ unto salvation'. Now I
obelieve' that every couniiand that is
ooniained in that gospel is necessary
tci salvation, not^on|y f-'ii^h itnd repen-
tance, but also liupCisni To them
that say to Him, Lord, Lord and do
not His commandments he will say,
" Depart from me, I never knew ydit."

, Did Jesus come to this World of ours
Olid in*.roduce an ordinance only to be
treated as not to be observed, as
though it were to be used, or not to
be used, just as we feel? In Luke 1:

31: 50,. says, "There went out to him
Jerus9,lem and all Judea, and wero
baptized in \Jiordah,v confessing their
sins. Herei^e find there was confea-
siort of sins to John l>y those who came
to his baptism. M»irk 4: 4, *' John
did baptise in tlw? wilderness and
preach the baptism of rM)entance for
th'd remission of, sins. It thfe is the ,
object, for the renxjssion of sins, oer*
tainly .that had something to do with
Tia-ptism, liuke 3: 3, '* And he cam©
into all the .country about Jordan,
preaching the baptism' of repentance
'fof the remissiort "of sins," "Undoubt-
edly it was for the remussibn of sins,"
then itii< deftairiiy essentiaLfor salva-
tionif we are told that by it sins are
remitted. N]jw we discover bjr the
history given i*i. the' Biblb that it did
prepare them, for Jesuis>accepted some
. of them who were converted by John.
Luke 7: 29-36, »'AHd aH the; people
•that^ heard him * * * Justified
God, being baptized with the hnptism
of John, but the Pharisees and law'yers
rejected the counsel of God Against
themselves," not being baptized* l^f
him. ^

17 we read that this John was sentto ' Then if this is a commandment of,
prepare people for the Lord. How God is it not esserftial f6r salvationi
$^d he go to work to do this? Matt. He that sayeth he lovfeth Me an^

TBif qooPBa-i^vs^

keepetfa not ^y oomn^andments is «

I J Hkt" John was sent of God and Johuh
feaatified of hini. InLuko 24: «&'49,

' #• fihd that the uiesHengor wn»t to j^o
^th9 nations and preach n^pentunce
and the reraiBsion of HinM in His name,

J bat thev were to t^rry in Jerusalem
until they w^ere endued with the
spirit from on hiffii. John 20: 23,
"Wboaoever sins ye remit they are
remitted unto thetn and whosoever
iins ye retain they are retained."
How were they to remit or retain
. rins f Just in the same way that John
the Baptist c(id. Bring forth fruits
untb repentance, Th^ sihs were re-^
taiioed to those who did not bring

"'forth fruits of repeh^oe and they
were remitted to those wVo did. Rom
8: 25, "Whom God hath set forth to

the Lord of G6d. ^hen they said,
" What shairwe do? Now 'they have
received the endowment M the Holy
Spirit. What does Peter say T . "That
Jesus has done everything f No,
He Hays, i' Repent every one of you'
and b^Jtaptized for the remission of
sins, lliese men were to remit them
because' they were officers in the
church and took: the place of God.
And now he says; ^'hepent and be
baptized and 'after that ye shall
receive the Holy Ghost. Peter
knew what he was u^ng about. ||e
was instructed of the Lord. In Acts
19; 1*5, we have another case of bap-
tism administered by Paul. In Acts,
9th chap., we have ah individual who
thought he was scrvihg God by perse-
outing the Christians. He gets au-

ba a propitiation throf)gh faith, in his Jthority to go to DaAiascusfor this pUr

blpoa id declare his righteousness for pose, and while on the way he waa

' the ftbini^ision , of -sins that are past stopped by the voice of God. He

through the forbearance of God. This
iafbrihe rei^issioh of '^sins that are

Her6 ure discover J^hat God has been
• merciful to us Viefore we repented and
>. J'^us has made propitiajtion for sfu«
y^hat are past. In Act* 2: I , we "read,
;!and when the day of Pentecost was
^ oome they were all with one accord' in

asked | what m ust I . do ? H e is told
"godbwn to tha city and thou shalt
be told what thou must do." In the
meantime Ananias has been sent to
Paul. He Tises and goes without be
inar tf»W \>H|iat to say,- and laying his
httiidKoii Pairl, sayH, " the Lord that
appeared to fcliee * * ♦ hath serit

me to thee that thou migh test receive
place,- and suddfenly there came thy sight and be HI led with the Holy
linoky^n a sound, as 6f a' rushing Ghost" 'Nothing has yqt befin told
wind * ♦. „* ^nd there /him ahoyt what he imtst say. Th«»A
unto,* them cloven tongueS inimedijit(-ly there fell from his eyes,
lire Jlnd it sal upon each of as it wore, scales, and heroseandwos
they Were air filled with the ; baptized. In Acts 22 ; 16, it speaks
Holy Ghost. After that adrainistrh,'' of Ananias going to him and saying,
tion 90me of the people commenced to ' "Brother 'baul, why tarriest ^thou f

mock and said these men were filled
„ with wine, but Peter said, ".Th^se are
^ not drunken as ye suppose,^* seeihg it

fe but the third hour (of the day, but
^^ this is that which was spoken by „the

Prophet Joel, .saying, * And it shall

( SomiB to p »iss in the last d ayi^. saith

Ar^se, and I >e baptized and wash away
thy sins, calling on the name of the
Lord." Now, I "jisk, is this hot an
.ordinance for the remission of sins,
I, Peter 3 : 2Q-21. Which sometime
were disol.'ejliont when once the-long-
suffering of (»o<i waited in the day s of

God, I will pour out my spirit upon i Noah wiiilo the Ark was a preparing,
ail ftesh.' " Then he tells them that" wbe;ein few, that i« eight soi^s, wert /
by wicked hands they had crucified sayed. by water« - The like tij^ure

-#■

* • ■

they said,
'they have
th« I^uly
yrvTIiat
igr No.
ne of yow
(iviHHion of
Mnit them
8 in the

of Obd.
)t and be

ye shall
t. Peter
l>out. ^e
In Acts
use of bap'
In Acts,
ddual who

1 byperse-
I gets au-
>r this par-
ay he was
]^od. He
[}e is told
thou shalt
1." In the
in sent to
'ithbut be
laying his
Lord that

hath sei\t
est receive
ii the Holy

befsn told
ay, Th«»A
) his eyes,
se and wiik
, it speaks
knd saying,
iest ^thuu ?
wash away
ime of the
his hot 'an
>n of sins,

sometime
e the'long-
;he day s of

THE Cj^PBtl-LSVBRTOK D£BA,T£.

whereunto even baptism doth also now knoV what it was. It is evident th4t

save us, (not the putting away of the they preached to him baptism for the

til h of the Mesh, but th« iinHwer of a remi^Hion of siiv*, for the result waa

good conscience toward God) by the that they were baptized. Mark 16:

resurrection of Jeaus Christ., Here 16, says, "He that believeth and ii^

we have Peter declaring that eight baptised shall be saved," That is the

sopls were saved- by water, and liy the wdrd preached by the Apostle. In

like figure we .'shall be saved. What Matthew 49 : 16-21, a youQg man

is righteo^isnesd ? By th< right«)u«- comes to Jjesus Christ and sliys: "what

nessol faith is God revealed f atie to shall, I do to inherit eternal lifet

face . Jews said. Matt. 8; 15, "suflter Jesus said : '"^ Keep the^^ oommaod^

it to b*^ so, for thus it becometh us to ments.'" Thou shalt n«4rsteaV etc.

fulfil all righteousness.'* Then if Noah
was a preacher of righteousness, he
was a preacher of the G^poT. My
opponent says the phurolr^ras the same
from the>0giuiungof the World,. so he -go
must admit -that the Gospel was the cu\

He sitid, all these have I kept; Jesus
si'iid, '* If ,,thou. wouidst bc^ perfeotsell
all thou hast now and follow me. If
he had followed him he Would have to
6 through the waters of baptism be*
use JeauS said, "It becometh us to

rule of life- from the ^ginning. Noah fulfil all righteousness, and what he

being a (Treacher of righteousnt^ss, and says to all of us is ,to follow- in his

one of the principles of righteousness fpotsteps. . Why was Jesus baptieedl

being baptism, then, Pete? says, by Was it for His salvation 1 We are

the^liVe tigur?. Wcause Nbah was a, fold; "He.took upon Him not the ha>

preacher of tifhteousness and obeyed tureof angels but of men." He took

that^righteousne s he was fioyfid from our sins upon Him.' It was not for

the flood. They were saved as by Hitf own sins that. He was baptised

water.. The ' Ark was figurativ;e of but for ours, and He set the example

spiritual salyajtion. The-Jike figure" that<«»^ might follow, it. In_ Liv. 4;

whereiiuto baptism doth now save u.s. 18, we have a type,' in the law for the

Not the p.utting . away of the filth of. qleabsing of the leper. The killbg ol

the flesh, bu|t the answer of a good ,one bird over the earthen vessel of

conscience towards God. Not by watPr and , dipping t^ other in the

works of righteousness which we have blood and, water, the fihstwas a t^pe

done, but" accordi'^^, to His mercy ht of Christ and the secqn^ of the sinner,

saved us by; the Washing of regenera- His blood ran down ^ to the earth 'and

tion and, the renewing of the Holy
(xhoat. It won't do io say that it is
the spiritual regeneration that saves us
but the baptism. The. water is the
qlieansing element and cleanses the in-
dividual for the renewing of the Hoiy Spirit that beareth witness.
Ghost upon' him^ In" Acts 16: 30-30, For there are *hree that bear recbrd
the individual asks "what shall I do in heaven, tlie Father, the Word and
to b6 saved r? The answeT is, "^g/ the Holy Ghost. * ^ ■ * And

was mixed with > the water of the
earth.' I *John 5: 6-8. This is He
which came by water; and blood, ewen
Jesu.s Christ, not by .'water only, Hut
by water and . bhtod, and it is tip

Jieve on the Lord Jestis Christ and
thou shalt be savecl." The Apostle
spake unto thiniblie word of the Lord
and th^ were baptized, he and his,
^ straightw8,y. What is speaking the
*wc«ilof the Lord t The jailor didn't

there are three :that bear witness on
earthy thie Spirit, the .Water atid the/ ^
Blood, and these three agree in one-'
Here we l^nd that three of t&e wit^/
nesses of Octd on earth agree'in c
the water, th^ . spirit and the Uc

prepanug, y
loj^ls, wert.
ike figure ^

OhriHt'« Mood wiw h1h*<1 fortlie leniiH-

Hion of flii).

The water ngriHis with iho liltjftd.
Which of th«'n« thiwi witnrH8«H ciui wr

,<lo without? Hy the mouth of two
or three witneHHes iirthinjj; rtliiill bo en-
tnhlishod. Which of those can we
wiy in not »'«^entiiil to our otwnuil
0<Jfl ? He who is the t'ounliiin of
wiHcloiii knew wliiit he wnM<!oiii]i{ whoii
he.said thukt. John -i; •% Je|f>UH Huid,
"Urileas ye are born of water and of
the Spirit ye shall not entfr into the
Kingdom of (ilod." Jt ie» not sulti-
cient thut we-4>e born of the S^ipirit.
If I said "that all that is necessary
is .to be born .of the water, what would
my opponfent say ? " Then it is essen-
tial that we be bom ut Ijoth and > ex-
cept wetare and obpy all the require-
ments of G|pd^ we connot enter into
that pe^l^ct sta,te and have all the en-
joyn|tftits of Gotl •[ cannot avoid
touiclnng the inod«j here for you can-

,;.*ibt be born of the water unless v<>u "
are immersed in it. You nmst tirst
be saved by the water and then you
receive the Spirit, €ok 2: 11-12. In
whom also ye are circumcised with
the circumcision not made with hands
in putting oft the body of the sins of
the flesh, etc. * ;,.,^

' Time expired. <

MR. COOPER'S FIRST REPLl

Mli. CHAtnitAJf, L.\DtES AND OEXtLE-

MEN,— My opponent says he is feeling

better. I am glad he is. so well and egain to Lev

feels so able to discuss this question,
and thatrhe.has three or four bntther
elders to assist him. He will need all
the assistance he can get hefore wc get
to the end of this proposition, and if
lie proves the proposition he affirms he

will cfo butter t%An any oiie t ever, imw
or heard of yet.

Ibl has quoted many texts, but not
one of the textM he quotes, ^yhcn pro*
perly interpreted, afTords the Irast
proof tfhat |l)e immersion of the body
in wiit«r,is essential to salvation. My
friend quoted Luke 24; 4 7>^ 'And' that
repentance and ruiuiHsiori nf 'sio«
should be preached In his name/'* In
this text there" is not a, word abou|_
baptism and I du not know, .what h«
qu ted it for. It is not immersion of *
the body in water, but repentance and
remimoii of. sins by relying oA* the
name of Jesus Christ that the Aupstl^es "
were to prei^ch.

He next quoted John f:Os 23,<'Who8e
sins ye rftmit, they areTcmitted." This^
gentleman told you that men's sins
are remitted by immersing the body.'
in .water. The text does not say so.- •
It is but ah inference of .Mr. Lever on,."
and he does not' like inferences so he
ought not to give them to us. The
text says not one word about baptism,
whether by sprinkling or pouring or
immersiorl. Mr. Leverton asks, "How
are sins' remitted.". I will tell him, I.
John 1: 9, "lif wq confess our sins, he
is faithful and just to forgive us oiir
:;«tni:i and to cleanse ua frdiri all unright-
eousness." "^

. The gentleman says^thatXhr^st was
baptized for our sins'j that is immersed
in water for our sins. Paul says,
"Christ died for our sins," I. Cor. 15:
3. which of "these statements will you
accept I Mr. Lever to;i states one
thing, Paul, another, directly the op-
posite. I think you will prefer an
inspired Apostle's stateuj,ent to that of
Mr. Leverton. My friend comes
14: 4-6, hut 1 .dp not

know tor what. He has tead that
text each time he has spoken yet, and
very likely we shall hear it to the end
of the discussion. \ He says tha live
bird, dipped in the^lood of the killed
bird, represents the\inner immersed,

hut the 1

not Autlk

It WIUI

live bird

the bloot

inersed i

that the

'and that

ing was

Hprinklit

sprinkle

ed from

fc. My o

case of t

Hition, fa

doing B'

dence at

mersed,

.the grei

baptizec

cond yiu

ter totl

16: 30

besavec

the Lor

be savec

direct q

Paul ha

said wh

immersi

sentiul

so, he s

might

answer

Ues tht

content

first a

cleansii

, of Chri

he rece

^ Acts 9

and vn

the nil

affords
sion.
by the
npon t
water
mendo

ever, mw

, but not
'hen pnj'
the Irast
the Vwdy
ion. My
And'that

of '«io«
liie.'" In
I'd about

what he
ierBion of • '
bunco and
^ oA' the
rApoBtt^es"

3,«»Who8d
3d." Thb
len'H sins .
the body
)t say SO; '
Lever on,,"
ces ao'he
U8. The
t baptism,
ouring or
ks, "How
ill him, I.
r Bins, he
VG us oiir
II waright-

Ilhr^st was
immersed
i^aul says,
. Cor. 15:
will you
tuteN one
y the op-
prefer an
to that of
nd comes
1 do not

i-eod that
1 yet, and
i;o the endf
» th& liv«
the killod
immersed,

I ii*v- /^ tllE COOPBRLEVERTOIf DEBATlt'bv^^^ tt

but th«j l»loo<i of th*. killAl bity wail Odd's word : "It sKill come lo pikii •
not Aurtkient t«» innnerwt the live bird. that whohoever i^hall call uixin tht
It was hut a Huiall «|uantity.' The nauu) of the Uud hhall Iw uiived." .W
live birdwa.** only «li«hUy drppodin dciCH not say whosoover «haU be iiM-
the blood p( the killed 'liird, not iiu- uie^-»e(i irt watet nhall l)eiDttved. WatM^
inersedinit. But my friend, forgets could not wa«h away PaUrs siito* B*»
that the leper was a type »»f thewnner sidw Saul's sins were remitted before
and that thfl lc)p«^r'H HymlKjlical clfans- he was baptized with -watel- at all,
ing was hoVby inimerMion but by Acbw 22: 16, " And immediately there
Hprinkliug; Lev. 14: 7, "A»d he Hhall ' fell from his cyeH a» it had l>o«n «cale»,
sprinkle uppn hirn that if* to be cleans- and he rccei^'pd his Sight forthwith,
ed from th* leprosy seven tiuio'j." and arose and was bapti«ed." The
My opponent next appeals te the gentleman appealed as I expected h«
case of the Jailer to prove his propo-, would U) four iMissages in particular as
Hition, but ho is most unfortunate in the gre it proof texU of the Bible in
doing BO. For first there is no evi- support of Bapt smal Reraissiotit They
dence at t^ll that the Jiiilej- wu« im- are at« £ollows : 1. "John did baptize
mersed, but oifthe contrary there is and preach the baptism of repent-
the greatest probability that he was <jince for the remission of sinfc" (Mark
baptized by sprinkling and in the se- 1: 4.) -2. "The people of Judea and
cond yase Paul's words settle the mat- Jerusalem Were baptized by him in
t6r to the contraiy. The J Ail qr, Acta .Gordon, gonfeissing their sins." (Mark
16: 30 asks : "What must J do to I: 5.) 3. "And he came into all the
be saved 1" Paul said: "Believe on country a)>Dut the Jordan, preaching:
the Lord Jesus Christ and tho^ shalt the baptwn of repentance for the re-
be saved, and thy house.'*^^' -Holre. is a mission ■of Sim?," (Luke 3: 3.) 4, "R«^
direct question and n, direct anf^wer, pent and be baptized, every one of
Paul had a goo<\ opp<jrtunity to have you, in the name of the Lord Jesiis,

said what my opponjjnt says : " The
immersion of tlie body in water Us es-
sential to sj'ivation, but he did r^dt do
80, he said qyite the contrary, 4nd I
might rest my ease here fori this,
answer of St. Paul's conclusively set-
tles the mutter against my opponent's
contention. The- Jailer was saved
first and' then as a symbol of -the
cleansing of his nature by the bloiKl

for the req^jission of sins," (Acts 2: 36.)
Not on? Qf these four passages is
taken from the words of Jesus who
catde to preach his oWn everlasting
gospel; In ail his ministry Jesus
never uttered one word that is claimed
here in these four passages, by my op-
ponent, to teach that baptism is for
the remission of sins or that spiritual
ri^hta. and privileges are secured ot

, of Christ applied by the Holy Uho.st, -obtained V)y water baptism

he received baptism with water. ., Compare the preaching ^if Mr.

We now come to Saul's baptism, Leverton and that of Mormon or Lat-

Acts 9: 18, " Arise and be' baptized, ter Day Saint elders with the preach-

and wash away thy sins, calling upon ing of Christ. In all the sermons that

the name of the Lord." This text Jesus ever preached he never uttered

affords no proof for baptismal reniis-
sion. Soul's sins were washed away
by the blood of Christ when calling
ttjK>n the name of the Lord, not _by
water baptism, certainly not by im-
mersion. This is in harmony with ^

one word about -baptism for the remis-
sion of sins. Mr. Leverton and Mor-
mon elders neve^ preach a sermon,
touching the forgiveness of sins "that
they do not teach baptism or imnVer^
sion in water as t^e very essence o|

The coopbr leverton debate.

ihe grmpf^, And without which aurnUHt
Im daiiined. VViim thitru «v»r n greutifr
uoiitriMt than in tnuml in ChriHt'ii
t««chitig and that of I^attcir Day
SaiaUi' toachiiig." hfow, lut um tor>K
at theae pkasagen and^ oxnmine them,
Mark 1:0, "And there went out unto
him all ^he land of .r uden and they of
Jcrutaledi, and were all baptized of
him in the River of Jordan, confeiiBUng
their sinii." Here wa» nothing more
than a public confetiHion thtiC they
were sinners, The text declares noth-
ing more. How they were to receive
remission of sins the text does not
state, whether by Itaptl^m or by faith
(ir by anything else. This text leaves
the whole matter so far as toiiow they
were to receive remission of sins en-
tirely to conjecture. This text then

people wlifim he haptiised, '• that they
RiUHt l)eliev«) on the I^ord Jesus."
John tiiught the same doctrine that
Paul did, that reniimiim i% obtainml
through faith in J<wun, and not by
water Ixtptism. John baptised unto
repentance and he preached faith in
Christ, who should I'ome aftar him, for
the re niission of sins.

Again, if John's baptism waa for
the remiMsion of sins, and if Christian
baptism is for remission of sins, then
we have two baptisms for the rMsis*
sion of sins in the New Testament and
the snflMi persons during the ministry
of John and of Ohrist and of the
Apostles, were baptized twice for the
reniinsion of sins. Those whoni J^ohn
baptized were afterwards baptized with
Christian baptism. Christian baptism

is ruled out as a proof-text in deciding was instituted at the beginning of the
this matter ministry of Christ and practised by

' We now come to the other two pas-
sages referring to John's baptij^m :
Mark 1: 4, "John did baptize and
preach the baptism of repentance for
the remission of sins" ; Luke 3; 3,
"And he came into all the country
about the Jordan, preaching the bap

His disciples contemporary with the
baptism of John, (John 3: 2^-26; 4:
1-3.)

Do the Scriptures require any man
to be baptized twice for the remission
of Bins ? Were the sins of the people
whom John baptized remitted by his

tism of repentance for the remission of baptism, and then remitted again by
sins." Now wa.s John's baptism the Christ's baptism 1 Take the twelve

baptism of repentance or the baptism
of remission? Everywhere John's
baptism is called the baptism of repen-
tance. John's baptism is never called
the baptism of remission. John's bap-
tism remitted no man's sins. It was
simply a public sign or profes.sion of
repentance John gave th*) knowledge

disciples at Ephesus for instunce. Acts
19: 1-6. The disciples were baptized
by John. Now if John's baptism re-
mitted their sins, then why did Paul
baptize them again for remission of
sins. Tf John's baptism was for re-
mission of sins and Christian baptism
waa for remission of sins, then these

of salvation throuj^h the remission of disciples were baptized twice for re^

sins l>y pointing the people to Christ mission of sins. Surely anyone can

fuid saying, "*'Behoid the Lamb of God see the absurdity of such a contention,

that takoth away the sins of the Either John's baptism was for re

wclrld," and John exhorted the people mission of sins, or Christian baptism

to believe in Jestts through whom
along remission of sins could be ob-
tained.

In Acts 19: 1-5, Paul affirms that
John's baptism was " the baptism of

is for remission of sins or neither wi^
for remission of sins. If John's bap^
tism was, " the baptism of repent-
ance and not of remisision" then the
-whole argument based upon this text

repentanoe," and that John taught th^ falls to the ground and the oontro.

'■»:',

tHX OOOPBA-LEYBBTON DBBAT&

•Hh»ti!i«y
jctrd Joiuii."
ootritifl that
i« obtAinml
and not by
kpttz«d onto
bed faith in
it%t him, for

inn waa for
if Ohristian
A Rins, then
>r the r(Mni»>
jHtamentand
the miniBtry
and of the
^wice for the
whom J^ohn
taptized with
itian baptitun
nninff of the
practised by
ry with the
3: 22-26; 4:

ire nny man
>he reinisAion
f the people
itted by his
«d again by

the twelve
istunce, Acts
f^ere baptized
I baptism re-
irhy did Paul
remission of

was for re-
tian baptism
i then these
;wice for re'

anyone can
a contention.

was for re-
ian baptism

neither waii
John's bap-

of repent-
n" then the
wn this text

the oontro.

vemy lo far aa this pMsagn \n concern
•d i« at an end. If we tako the |MMi
tion that John's baptiani won f(»r tbH
remiiaion of tins aitd (Christian 4;^p
tinrn ia not, the point is aurrenderAfl.
The truth in that aeither John'a (jap
tiam nor Ohristian tjaptisro waa
instituted fur remiMsion of sins,
both Nt«iid as the outward eiK
uf the inward and spiritual oleii[
of the soul by the baptism of thn ^
Spirit, which John conntantly poii
to aa the a/ititvpn of bis own baptism
with watei^ If, an my opponent 4MI^
|ei*ts, no Ohe is evtu* nuid to lie iNiptir.
ed for anything else than for i\w rc-
miasion of sins how about the Inip-
tism of Jesus ? Was Jesus baptized
for the remission of sins ? i thiak
not, Jesus was without sin.

The law required that Aanm and
his sons should be washed with water
at the door of the talx^rnaole, and an-
ointed with oil, to consecrate them to
the priestly office. Jesus Christ is th«^
Oreat High Priest of the church of
God, and it was necessary m he enter-
ed upon the priesthood, which was to
supersede that of the House of Aaron,
that he should be publfcly consecrated
to his priestly office. John, as the
legal high priest of the House of Israel
hod the right publicly to oonsci^rttte
the Great High Priest, who should
forever thke the place of the typical
priests of his own order. B^ his bap-
tism, Christ fulfilled the righteousness
of the law in this respect.

The washing of the High Priest at
the doi^r of the tabernacle was sym-
bolical of the inward purification
which a priest uiuSt have to minister
^coepbabiy before the Lord ; and the
auoihting was symbolical of the power
of the Holy Ghost resting upon him.
So Jesus was washed with water syni-
Iwlical of his iinntaculate purity, and

House of Tsraet, but embrMii tiM
whole human family ; hon«e his oon-
Huoraticm '■iiok place by the side of a
river, un«ler the. canopy of heaven. At
thn door of that universal hunuinity,
over vrhioh heft««forth his prie.tlv of-
fice was to lie exeroiaed. It wiQi iu
tltis way that his baptism fulfilled dU,
ghteousness. i

If Johu's baptism was s«iiboUcaU>f
)ral purity then it was"n»per Ad
ght that Christ should Im> iN^fiMl
as repr»<Hentlug the Ihghest luori^pur-
ity on ea^i But if John*! baptism
was for the remission of sins then no
greater inc«msisten<5y could have lieen
{rarpetrated on earth than to Imptiie
«' Ilim who knew no sin, for the re-
mission of sin."

The very fact that Jeaus was bap-
tized of .lohn settles thH matter in all
thoughtful minds that John's baptism
could not have been for the remisaion
of sins. John's baptism was a pro
fession of iepentance and Nymbolica'
of ihe puriW of heart which the bap-
tism of ih^BS^y (*h(»st alone can con-
fer. ThefHlfl object of John's bap-
tism was the public manifestation of
Christ to Israel, and the necessity
of apj^ Ufe, John 1: 29-34. .

John's mission ended with the pul>-
lie manifestation of Christ to Israel
by his consecrat'on to his priest-
ly office, and soon after ceas-
ed altogether by his imprisonment and
death. John's baptism furnishes no
proof for my friends positioir,

We now '^oiurt to John .'y 5, " Ex-
cept a man be l>orn of water and of
the spirit," etc. It is remarkable that
whili the spiritual birth is freouently
spoken of as "born of God," "Wnof
the Spirit," " born inm\ above," "born
again," "born of water," occur but
once in the Bible. A ruler of the
.fews caiiie to Christ and inquired con-

■ '#1

anointed with the Holy Ghost ; not at
the door of the tabernacle, fo^' his
priestl^r offiiK Js. «ot ^atinM the

cerning his doctrine. Jesus uttered
the words of the text. Surel/ there
ifl^ aq j^reat mystery about imicaer alott. 1

K4.

THE OOOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE.

If John had b«en baptizing all 8um<
xner by immersion as our friend con-
tends, and if the passage is so clear
and plain that anyone ought to under-
stand it vdio has a bit of hon«>sty in
him. Hf)w i? it that Nicodeinus did
not understan<l Jesus? It is clear
that Jesus did not refer to baptism by
any mode in this lext. If born of
^ water and bom of the spirit mean two
distinct and diiferent bifths then a
man must be born again twice, or he
cannot enter into the kingdom of (jrod.

The new birth is the regeneration
of the heart and not the washing <)f
the body, iMul because of the spiritual
nature Kicodemus could not under-
stand^ it. When he failed to compre-
hend it, Jesus introduced thoi symbol
spiritual purification, water, to illus-
trate what he meant by being, born of
the Spirit. Born of water^does not
mean baptism. " Born of -Water and
of the spirit does not mean that two
birth) are necessary to enter the King-
dom of (Jod. , Born of water is used
as an illustration of the meaning of
"born of the Spirit." We have an
example f if this method of illustration
in Matt 3: 11, " He shall bapti?e you
with the Holy Ghost and with fire."
This does not mean that there are two
baptisms, one of the Holy Gh^t and
one of fire, but th6 baptism of the
Holy (»host, like fire, consuming sin,
and fillinf,'/tlie soul with spiritual life.
"Born of water and of the Holy Ghost"
is to I)e, regenerated and purified by
the Holy (Uiost ns water applied to
the body makes it ceremonially clean.

Water iff used as th i symbol of the
Spirit by Christ, John 7: 37-39, " He
that belie eth on riVe as the Scripture
hathsaid, out of his belly shall flow
ri«^ of living water (but this spoke
he of the Spirit.) By water 4iere
Jesus certainly meant the Spirit aud
the passage, born of water and o£ the
spirit, is an emphatic phrase, the one

illustrating the other. It has no ref-
erence whatever to baptism. ,

Ephesians 5: ^.5 26 is also quoted to
show that the church is cleansed " by
the washing of water and that sins are
washed away in baptism. Butih what
sense does Ohrist cleanse the church
by the washing of water ? Rev. 1: 5,
" (Into him that loved us and washed
us from our sins in his own blood."
Also Rev. 7: 13-U, we read: "These
are they which came out of great trib-
utatioil, and have washed their robes
and made them white in the blood of
the ..Lamb." Now by the blood of
Christ applied by the Holy Ghost, our
sins are washed away in reality and
the church cleansed and with water
this work is symbolized. The inspired
writer says that Christ '^' Wrfsheid us
from our sins in his own blood" and
that the great company "washed their
rol^^and made them white in the
bloodC of the Lamt." Now either
John IS inistaken or IVir. Leverton and
those who like him teach that water
baptism is essential for ,the remission
of sins. Which will you accept, St.
John or Mr. Leverton? T have no
doubt but you will prefer John's state-
ment. Again we must remember that
garments were not literally washed in
the b ood of Christ, Rev 19; 8,- John
in speaking about the attire of the
church says: " And to be arrayed in
fine linen, clean and white ; for the
fine linen is" the righteousness of
saints."

Garments washed and mode white
in the blood of the Lamb, is a figure
of speech representing the great truth
that .sins are washed away, and the
soul mad6 righteous and clean in the
sight of God by the blood" of Christ
Time expired. ;"

rt has no ref-
ism. , .

also quoted to
clertna«d "by
d that sins are
Butih what
m the churcli
'? Rev. 1:5,
18 and washed
! own blood."
•ead : "These
b of great trib-
led their robes
I the blood of

the blood of

oly Ghost, our

in reality and

d with water

The inspired

^' Wrtsheid us
m blood" and
"washed their

white in the

Now either

. Levfirtonand

3h that water

the remission
bu accept, St.
? T have no
)r John's state-
remember that
ally washed in
V 19: 8,- John

attire of the
> be arrayed in
rhite ; for the
fhteousness of

id made white
nh, is a figure
the great, truth
iway, and the
id clean in the
od of Christ

■ed. ;■■;". : :r

THE COOpEU-LEVEHtON I>F4B \TE

MB. LEYERTON'S SECOND SPEECH.

. Mb. Ohaikman, Ladies and Gbntle-
MBM.—It sometimes seems too bad
thftt Scripture should be so mystified
that we may not understand one an-
other, and one reason for it is that the
private interpretation of m n is put
upon it. However, we have so far
agreed to disagree. My opponent
says I am an able debater and
have good assistance. I didn't
know that I was very able. I had
about two minutes to prepare for this
before coming, while you have all seen
the web of painted cotton displayed
by ray friend. He tfiust have got
sitae help with that. In Luke 1*? :
24, ^e says there is no biiptism. I did
not say there was, but I said that it
showed that they were to preach the
remission of sins Again the question
is, "How were they toremitsins?" .If it
does not mean what I said, why does
he not tell you what it does me^n.
How were these people to remit sin I
ask my opponent to explain. Perhaps
he will go back to the Greek. Are
you going to tike the translation of
one iuan against fifty four good and
learned men. Then I said they were
to wait at Jerusalem till the spirit
came upon them.*^ Now here is the
first opport4nity that they had* to
practice the remittance of sins, and
' Peter said, '• Repent, every one of you,
for the remission of sins?" That ^s
not what he said. What the Bible
says is, "Repent everyone of you and
be baptized for the remissbn.of sins."
Whenever my opponent is cornered
he resorts to Greek We hear of the
Qospel being proacbed to .the Jews a
stumbling block, and to the Greeks
foolishness. Is that w h y he always

mersed does not destroy our reliartoe
on Dhristf'ir salvation. I did not
say that Jesns was bjiptiated for our,,
sins, but that he took on Him t^i^in
of the world, the original f^i,^^
when he came to John's baptism, John "
said: "Behold the Lombof Gad that
taketh away the sin of the wor|d.
Then, in ord^ to show us an example,
he became obedient to the law, whi^jh
he himself had established My op-
ponent says "for" is not "for." |I
have learned that "for" can be tranis-
lated, in, for, with and iinto. Fift|)r-
four men translated it for.* Now >ye
have it unto, that i« preaching unto^
the remission of sins. But **for" is"
just as proper for this as "unto" is'. |f
his translation is true jbhen they did
not receive the remission of sins whei^
they repented and they were only^
preaching the remission of sins when
thuy were baptized Acts 16 : 30-33f\
the cafles of the jailor, he says he \
doesn't see anything new. There are
two kinds of. blind people, one is blind
because they can't see, and other, be-
cauiSft they w^ont see. Beliovei on the
Lord Jesus Christ. W'hat is it to be-
lieve on Christ ? It is not only to. be-
lieve that he is the Son of God. There
are many who l)elieve that, who are
wallowing in .sin. The devils also be-
lieve and tremble It is believing in
the Gospel Vif Christ that saves men.^
The 4octrine of Christ is the plan of
salvation. He that heareth these say-
ings and doeth them, shall be likened
to a man who built his house upon a
rock. WHat was there to do 1 Paul
preached unto them th v Word of the
Lord, and he that believeth and is
baptized is saved. What is the re-
sult? The jailor believed the word of ,
the Lord and he and his believed and
were baptized and were saved. Now
in the case of Paul's baptisitt my 6p-
ponent ^ ays there is notbinglsaid there
' about remission ot sins. If there was

■ I

■■!

/■L

jumps into the Greek. Our being iin- nothing in this denying the Wowl of

<'■»•»»■ «;;* r^i

.//■

THE eOOPER.LEV^KTON DEBATE.

:, ■■-. -♦ ■

V..J

Qod, certainly thM is a point. What found them- liara." Now jou ban •«•
do '8 Paul say before the people at that there had been some false teaqh-

Jerusalem. He says that Ananias
Mid to him, " Arise and b« Iwiptizyrl
and wash away thy sins, cjillingon th«
name of the Lord." The Bible says
the sinner is to bo washed for the re-
mission of sin. But my opponent
says he was baptized after the remis-

ers at Epliesun. They had lieen tried
!ind fttuiid li*ar», so " when the true
Ap(\sile of Christ eame, they knew
nothing about the Holy Ghost. Here
Wa^ the'work of the true apostle and
they found that thoso others were
liars. Iwant n»y opponent to prove

sion. Acts 19 : 1-6, Paul at Ephesus, that they had ever been baptized by

baptizing those who had obeen baptized John at all. No doubt they- thought

by John. He says John's baptism was they wet-e. John 3 : .% " Born of wa-

unto repentance. I believe that ter and of 'the spirit." He says water

Was the remission of ;,|ins unto re tioes not mean water, it means spirit,

pentahoe too ? He preached the gos- He refers to John 7 : 38, " He that

pel of repentance, then rep ntance believetb on me, out of his belly shall

must be another baptismu^ Paul asked flow .rivers of living water.*' Jesus

these disciples if they had been bap- qualifies what he said. The words

tized. They ans w^red that they had that I speak are spirit and life. You

by JohnW baptism. Then said Paul,
"John veriljRi baptised with the
baptism*^ of repentance, saying
nnto the people, that they
should l»eli«ve on Him which should
eome after Hi m, that is, on Christ

must be born of water and of the
spirit. My opponent says you must
be born of the a|Dmfk-aud of the spirit
or you cannot. j>c^^^ to the kingdom
of Ood. Does sprit mean what it
says there, if so why doesn't water

Jesus. When they .heard this they inean what it says 1 Here we have
were baptized in the nanle of the liond them side by side, and they are both

requisite to God. I believe the revis-
ed translation reads tKe^same Way, and

Jestis." Let us turn back to the mis
sion of John. John says : ** T indeer)
baptise you with water, but He that
eometh after me who.^e shoe-latchet I
am upworthy to unloose. He shall bap-
tise you with the HolyilJhost and
with tire '' If these people were not
saved by baptism,, they were not bap-
tized by John They had not even
.heard of Christ's l»aptism. As soon
as Paul heard this he knew that some-
thing was wrong and he baptized truth, no matter what we may sjiy
them, and then, when he l.iid his
hands on them they received the Holy
Ghost. We do not hear of any of
John's disciples being re-baptized.
Jesus received them without other
baptism. Hn was baptizod by* John
himself. Hev. 2 reads: "Unto the
angel of the church of EphesUs writej
1 know' thy works * * * * and
thou hast triedtthenv which nay. choy

also the Douay Bible, and dci^s my
friend say it iS not right. The reasim
it is not right is because it does not
bolster up his theory. Jesus said,
" Except ye born of the water and of
the spirit ye cannot enter into the
kinn;doiii of Heaven." Now whos^
authorit)? are you going to take. Your,
salvation! is upon the savred word ot'

'/■

v,...J

f- 1,7, ■•»«*>

••\ -^

you ban kte
» false teaqh-
il lieen tried
en the true

they knew
ho8t. Here

apoHtlo and
others were
3nt to pruve
baptized by
hey- thought
Born of wr-^
e says water
iieunM spirit.
8, " He that
is belly shall
ter.*' .lesus

The words
d life. You
and of the
s you mu3t
of the spirit
the kingdom
ean what it
iesn't water
»re we havo
ley are both
>ve the revis'
ime way, and
nd <\(j^ my

The reason

it does not
Jesus said,
ivater and of
ter into the
Now whose
» take. Your
ii-ed word o^^
may say.

THE CpOPER-LfiVERT^N DEBAI^te.

■ *»,-

MR. COOPER'S SECOND REPLY.

Mr. Ohaib.m^n, L.vdibs at»d Obvtle-
MB!*,—Mv opponent says I, have dis-
carded James' version and gone to the
mysteries of the Greek. Well, I have
(|Uoted from Jairies' version all the
time with one or two exceptions. Why
does my friend not go to the Mormon
God for" a revelation ? ^e believes
that his church possesses the gifts of
vision and interpretation of tongues.
It is a pity that he cannot get aid
now so as to explain all these matters.
My friend says he did not say that
Christ was baptized for our sins. His
memory is at fault. He said those
very wards as, the audience can testify.
Now will my opponent tell the audi-
ence what is the fate of all the good
Anglicans, Gtmgregationalists, Presby-
,; teriar^s and Methodistsi, who have died*
without thti immersion of the body in
water ? Wesley, Whitefield, and hosts
of others who lived godly lives and
died triumphant deaths according to
my opponent's logic or doctrine have
apne to hell. Of course his church
teaches the doctrine of baptism '»y
■proxy. That is, if a man die,s in his
sins «vithout immersion his friend or
relative may tie immersed for him^nd
delivei!' him from helK

If by an act of faith a poor sinner
may accept Christ; and ChriHfc may
pardon his sins, then the sinner away
from home, on the prairie, in the for-,
est, on the dt^sert or upon the rocjos itt
the ocean, far away from any other
human being, may \te. saved. But if
immersion t» neceEisary, aid if the
sinner nnst wait until some man, be
he Mormon, Campbellite, or by \Yh ftt-

a Mormon elder, which is absurd and
extremely ridiculous. The soul that
repents and exercises faith may
be saved without immersion and
without the assistance of any itoan*
God is neither limited to water nor to
any man in ejecting •, the salvation of
a sinner* I will now examine the
jjreat fortress, the Gibralter-pf the
doctrine of my opponent ahdw *l I
those who teach Baptismal Remission.
Acts 2 : 38. My friend in quoting
this text left out ; the important part
of it. He omitted the words " in the
name of Jesus Christ." He left Jesus
Christ ©ut of the text and put water
in his place, and that is the only way
he can prove his doctrine by leaving
Christ out. I will quote it correctly
for you, "Then said Pe;ter unto
theni, repent and be baptized, every
one of you, in the name of Jesus
Christ, foi* the remission of .sins.*' He
says when I am cornered I resort I o
the Greek. When he is cornered he
leaves the important words out of th
text He says I jump into Greek*
He does not jump but he skipjs over
'the words. Why did he leave
Jesus Christ out of this text. The
whole argument rests upon the Greek
preposition "epi," here translated "in."
The mo5t->imp Hont doctrine of the'
gospel ^ests for its support upon the
interpretation of sSohe little Greek pre»
position of three lettei-s. Take out
this passage and you destroy thef'»un-
dation«)f the whole system of Bap-
tismal Remissioui /What is the mean-
ing of "epi?"

WiNEii, in his large Greek Grammar ,
of the NT., pp 592, 393, says: "Fig.
uratively, epi dejiotes, in general, the
foundation on- which an action or state
rests; * * * * to do something
upon the name of some « m B; i e; i n

-■■'9:

S'V:

ever name, comes along to administer
baptism to him, he must perish. ' Sal-
vation is thus taken out of the hands'
of God and ia made to de|iend upon

doing it to rely upon, or have refer*
ence to, the name of some one."

Pit. Edward Robinson, in his Greek
. Iiexicon of the N. T., after (}aoting

■,»*i'*\/'-"ii; ■;.*•)'»'■

■,w-<

Tftfe cbo^fiR^.RVifiRTON bli^Atti.

the words of Peter ia this verse, iMys :
''Be baptized; that is, professing a
V>e1ief in Hitn, and a devotediies i to
His service." t *

Tbater, in his Greek Lexicon, says:"
" To do anything, epi to onomrtti, tinos,
relying upon the niune, i. e.^ the authbi"-
ity of any one * * * Baptistheto
epi to onomati Christou, so as to i'^pose
your hope and confidence in his Mes*
sianic authority. (Acts 2: 38.)"

These great authorities declaro that
ii this passage " epi" means " relying
upon,r"r -posing •«," etc. Nqw let
u§ read the passage, giving "epiVthis
sensei " Repent and be > aptized, every
one ol you, relying on the name of
Jesus Cfhrist for the remisiion of sins."
Thus we see that a proper exegesj«i of
this pi-obf text destroys the very found-
ation of tbuK doctrine of Baptismal
Remission. ' . ' . <

"Then they were not baptized for the
remission of sins, but relying upon the,
name >6£ Jesus ChrisV they received
femission of sins.

^ THfit this is the true medS!hi% of
Peter's language on t^e day of Pente*
cost is proved beyonp a doubt by his
words to Cornelius a^ his h(wscfaold.
Actsl0>43. ■ /

Did Peter teach btte thing in Acts
2: 38, and another in Acts 10: 34-43 1

Cornelius was an efirnest, penitent
sinner seeking for remission of his
sins. He was directed by an angel to
send for Peter. The angel said : "He
shall tell thee what thou oughtest to
do," (verse 6), or as Peter puts It,
"Who shall tell thee words whereby
thou and all thy house shall be saved,''
(Acts 11: 14.) Peter came and told
CorneliuS' what he ^ught to do. lie
told him "words whereby he and all
his hoUse were saved."

What words fjlid Peter tell him 1
Acts 10 : 34-43. But in the who^i of
Pete's sermon there is not one word
about baptism for the remission of
sitts. Peter said to OoraeUiis : "To

- him give all the prophete witness, thibt
through His namb, whosoever believ-
eth' in Him shall receive' reuiiss^on of
sins." (xcU 10: 43,) "While/Peter
yet spake thesd words, the Holy Ghost
fell on all them which heard the word."

1. Peter here oonneota forgiveness of
sins with the name of Jesus, as in
Acts 2: 38. V

2. That remi^gk>n of sins is receiv-
ed by believing in Him, as in Acts 2 :

3. The name of Jf»us is the'gfdlind
and faith in Him is the eondition of
the remission of sins. x,

4. Cornelius and his household were
received of Godji their sins were re-
mitted and their hearts were purified
by faith before they were baptized oi^
one word about baptism mentipned.

5. ThenTeter said ; '^tlan any mailk
forbid water that these should not Abe
be Vmptiised which have received^ tlie '
Holy Ghost as well as we." ^

6.0 Peter commanded them to be
baptized, not for remission of sins, but
because' " They had reet>ived the Holy

'Ghost." ■ :■ '■ -'^■..'.- .;■'■*■■■■/:.■{/'■■

7. If Peter taught baptism for re-
mission of sins on the -day of Pente-
cost, then he talight one thing then
and another tBing vo Cornelius. Kither,
this inteipretation of Acts 2: 38, is
true or Peter preached one gospel on
the day of Pen icost wid another when
he preached to Cornelius. ^"^

8. We have' a representative case. It
W^s the opening of th^ door of theChurch
to the great Gentile world, and if ever
there wijs a time, bnd a place, and cii**^
cumstances for Peter to preach the
gospel method of remission of sins, it

" wa<> then and there. Coihielius wiEmt-
ed to kiiow what he must do to obtain
pardon or remission of sins. The an-

gel promised him that Peter would
tell him what he ought to do to ob-
tain remission of sins or to be saved.
Peter did tell him what he ought to
do. Peter gave him the GospeU plan

" I •*T,

ritnBUf thibt
ever believ-
rnniiss^on of
Vhile, Peter
Ho]y Ghosts
Vtheword."
rgivebess'bf
resus, 48 in

» is receiv-
in Acta 2 :

tiwgfotmd
condition of

isehold were
ns were ro'
ere purified
bapti»3d Ojj^
entipned.
'an any mad
ould not Afae

■eceived the'

„ ■; .-:■?- ■

hem to be
of sins, but
5d the Holy

tism jfor r^^
ly of Pente-
Ihing then
ilius. Kither,
to 2: 38, is
le gospel on
Dother when

bivecase. It
»f theChurch

and if eyer
ace, and cii**^

preach the
n of sins, it
'nelius wiEuit'
do to obtain
18. The an-

\lV

tHB COOPBK LEVBIRTON pEBATB.

?eter would
to do tpoh-
to be saved,
he ought to
OoBpeLplan

of salvatran in these words, " To tiiin
gave ft|jl the prophets, wiinesa that
througtf Hisnaui(» \vh|psoeye'' believeth.
in Uini 'sha\l receive remi'ssidnof sins ''

• 9. Peter expressly affirms thai their
hearts Were purified bv faith, not by
baptism, Acts 15 : 7-9. '* Men and

-brethren, ye know tha(< a good ^He
ugo God mad^ohoice among us. Thfit
the Gentiles, by my mouth, sl^ould
hear the word of the gospel and be-'
lievlit and God 4hic\i knoweth the
hearts bear them witness, giving them
the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto
us, and put no difierence, between uf
and them, ' * purifying the! r hearts )>y
faith.''-: S' : ; .■ ;:,;, \

10. Peter affirms that God purified
the hearts of the Jewish Christians by
faith just as he did that of Cornelius '
and his household. Both Jews iind , ;,
GentileH were Jlsfgiven, saved and pu-
rified by. faith. Peter's woixis,
" And put itt) • difference between
them," covers tke whole ground and
proves beyotid the shadow of a doubt
that all, bc|th Jew and Gentile, , who
were converted <^der the.mjbistry of
the Apostles, hacT^heir heans'|>urifie I
by faith and not V)y baptism.

This i.4-the one 'and universal laMi^of
the remission and heart purificaticiMgfjfr
'^and it , covejrs all nationalities in mi
ages of -the world. ^The doctrine of
fiajitisitial ReroissioAAffirmed by, my
opponent and held by many others is
thus proved to be false and unscrip-
tural by the very. apostle whose words

• lare quoted to prove it^ Surely no fur-

ther argument is required to- prq>^e
the unscri})tura]ness olmy friend's po-
sition, lind if h(i and the iMormons
are wronjg; in ' this, as they aire, they
are altogether wrong and building
upon a false foundation. And they

the sand; and the rain de8<i#nded,
and the floods came, and the winds,
blew, and lie%t upon that house ; and
it tell ; and great was the fall of it."
' TIfis is the foundation that thegen-
tlen^an is ' building upon^ but I have
taken it from under hiin. That the
immersion of the body in water is es*
sential to salvation is utterly false. ■

Time

-:\

MR. UVERTON'S THIRD SPEECH,

MrT Cii airman, Ladies and Gkntlk*
MEN,— It has been said that I should
be almost annihilated before this
discussion' was oyer. We have got
more than Jmlf over with it lund I f ed
as good w| ever. I hope we shall stilt
enjoy ourselves. Of course it 'is not
to be expected that I and my bppon*
ent wfll agree on points of Scripture,
that is not what we are here for, ;b|tt
to disagree. I think I can say that
as men we agfee, there is no unpleas-
antness between ^gj|ind I hope there
wilt not 1)e. SomSflhink I got work*
ed ^p last night but it i# not so.
When I go. into ,any thing, T go in
witli all my mijght. Whatsoevdr thy
hand findeth to do, do it with'^11 thy
might. T jjte^e a statement last night
unk noWinglpKnd I. am willinjMMiay
it wMs wrong, that C|;irist wl^ffltop'
tised for the remission of sins. Mjr
c4>ponent and others «iay I said ro.
HO it was a mistake and I take it Imok,
I don't believe any such', thing. J
shetll follow my former argument at
pre ent and if time permits make
ik>me reply to statements made by n^v
opponent liast night when called Ip
order I was at Col,^ llj " In whQpn
also ye iftre circumcized with .the <^|y*

■,'■

■■i

.ll

%ail pei as our Lord describes in Matt.
7 1 26-27, " And every' one that hear-
eth these sayings of mine, and doeth
them not^ shall be likened unto a fool-
ish mait^ which built hia house upon

cumcision made without tiandSj in
putting off tlie body of the isins of t|^
flesh by the circumcision of Qhritt,
Circumcision made without hands was
undoubtedly made in the heprlU

r?^< «;^-:v;,

jr hod wietiched ol^jPentecoti
Kings c^||(erni ng ou r Hav^ iou

they
sin.

be doiii
pittt 01
Verse
Hc^re ij

put (iflt

adtikei

|the dky
iprepartuj^

^^hereurt^ll^en bj|ptisi« dotih

flittvir Wv(<j niMnot the ■ puiiinl

f^ tjijbh ci^iti^flesU, but J|id

uptnt
r»»t w
n

tlsiii

Wylwater
Mbrist, not bjr'w

.h witness
litli. For there Jv
ord ,an Heaven,
AVord and lh0 Hoi
thiln^el are one, aind
that beatr wifti^^SB 6
anH the jvatei^ 4ftdl
these three agcee in
the three witnesses t
tjiblished upon: th^ eai
the spirit, the water >;

result was

th, »iri<r t|if\t. w wH&V
r, ibe,rpm,|!!i#ilii of

pirit'is

ilireethat bear

le Father, the

If host, and these

ere are three

iPth, the spirit

blood ; and

Here are

God has es- ,

There is

the bloods-

They bear "

ich one are .

Chrii^t (>^Pl<S«i5e P4t'e irefers uli; i to «ie :^i^ w|(lprepared to dii^^iis^ wif^ !i If my
Hgur*f!H W<» tlhe tirk and he Mt^s it js ^J^imi^ says* ykrecan dispense with the
^Sb! iiW4 ^tfgjivt^ ;wliereuivto .fiaptisiii, ^ jirijter/^I cnn say witb :(jhief blood land

Hhers may sa^ that we <?an dispenBe

corj|science^tow6fm C^The^e three agree in
'' -ection :^ J#|iHl,v|^'^the!tf upon'ear^v

th^t

jio;%jAa\*e« «"^j 1 1 iti* not the
J|i?^|o^>^i^aith oid^ ife^^
M^erf'ii^ 'Jf^trt^^^^^^^ of 'a good

1 ^c<>^sicien«^- I Th mitictf what

figui;e "iiip^i|j}as, * Tli^ Apostit draw^
»tt^ritjy^\th'e dpliigp qf th^feafth.
Why 4)ia (lod Siend the ttopd ?, It mts
b«caimMbbe't^pl^ hlvd sijined until
'Hod's m^th wa^ full. Thei^ he sent
[ ' the.fldpd to purged from sirtl It whs
'; . n^tr M^ ha* beeji said, to cleanse the
,V*™tedriuvian8. ' As the »atg^ rpsp
upon the eartll "they chnth eflgL the
> highest mountain peaks, - t't<^BBt as
you. and I would do to-day n the
.waters werie rising on the eartli. ' We
doliot know tfjft tliese antedilusians
were all immersed. In !wat> a' cleans-
ing of the earth from sin. We find
ttQ account of |ihe immersion of the
earth in i&en.f 7; 19, 4, and the waters

the spirit, Wei^canhot dispense .

any of tb0m. Wt^i^r is the elfe-

in which We ar^ w be baptized.

6 remission of ''^iMl^ etc. Titfl^s
'51 n6t> by works W righteousness
we have dq^e, but according to
hisvmfercy *he saved us, by the .washing
of regeneration, and 'r^i^Wi&g of .
Holy 4}hd8t^ . - Here
. priiQciple!)^ j ust as
other places,
washinff and
Holy 'Ghost,
says, thfub wate
regeneration
f6. 30-3;j|; and

said, sirs, "What
ed"?"And iiey
Lord Jesus Christy,
sa ved, and thy house.

the -two ,
them In-
First the
newing of t|ie
the scripture
tl»e Washing of
ieve it, Acts
em out and %

to be sav-
ieiveon the" i
)u sWt fier
nd they spake

prevailed exceedingly upon the earth^^ unto him the word of thib Ixn^, and
ttnd all the high hills .that were under 9U that were in his house, and be
the whole heaven were covered.- 'took them the H|a4|hour of th^^ night, |^
Fifteen cubits upward did the water jemd wacj^ked tl^|M^r^)es ; ajad wa#'
prevail, apd allflesh died that juoved baptized, he ai||Fl^||||^

THE COOPEIt I.KVERTON, DEBATE,

1?',

rm
\i' 'ji^ _^

16 Spirit' w
)<that bear
athei\ the
, and these

are three

the spirit
lood ; and .

Here are
od has es-
There is
the blood.'
They bear "
ich one are
jil If ray
le with the

blood jaAd
n dispense
»t dispense ^

is the elfe-
e baptized
3tc. *Titij|
[hteousness
::cur4ing to *
tie .washing
itigjit .%e
li the -two
3 them In-
, First the
/fingoft|ie
J scripture
Wushing of
iVe it, Acts
301 out and %
I to be sav-
ieiveon the" i
)U Shalt fie
they spake

^,d(>iiOt quote the preaching of Qospel
iK fh(|it quotation but the Jailor u-sked
'' Ajrhat must I do to bo saved,'' and
they, said, *• Believe on tile Ijjnxl.Jtisus
vw^ilDhrist and thou shalt be savml "
JWh«t is it to believe oi» Him ? "He
that believeth on me shall . have
eternal )^t''." Xow, dear friends 1
appeftl'to 'you. ' It is easy to throw
away the doctrine yon have been
brought up in and lielievts anything I
may tell you.* Jesus came amlpreach-
tnl a (loctriner to the children of men,'
and if 1 don't believe that (l«K-ii'ii)(« |
doti't l^lievo in Josus. " Not every-
one that saith Lord, Lord shall enter

newness of life. Then we hare tl
i>urial Itaptism. Can we then have
iNiptism that is hot immerNioh I Int
death, What death? Death to thfii
old man ami his sins, and so H(W>n nia
we become acquainted with Uo(t and
are tired of our sins, we crucify the
old iuan.\ Ndw if we be dead with
Christ we shall «;l8o live with Him.
There is a putting oft' of ^\w old man
of sin. l^w do,, we want to carry
that old^man of sin with ua t Then
bury the old man. That is the idea,
putting down and l)6ing separate from
sin and this is how it is to be done.
Then if you have been planttnl in the

the kingdom of H*aven, but he that likene s of His death, you will live in

Xiord, and
se, and he
Uhr night, f^
; and was
aightway."

heareth these isayings of mine and
doeth thorn." If we do not receive
the Apostles we do not receive Christ.
It is a living faith that moves us to
action that we need. VV hen the jailor
askcsd, " What must I do to be saved"
they spake unto him the word of the
"Lord unto him. \^i^ it not essential
that that he should have fa,ith in the
word of the Lord, and wh,rtt,„.-tme
would ^ey[,wf>rd 4^! w1»o did nit act
oa it. 'The woill giveiiftjto jClrrist's
disciples, is " Go teafih aW nations,
>tizing' them in uie nain% of the

his resurrection. We get rid of thfi
old man by baptism. 'I'hen, when we
have got rid of the old man, what
have we left I Luke 24 : 46-49, aild
said unto them, "Thus it is written,
and thus it behoved Christ to suffer
and to rise from the dead the third
day ; and that repentance and remis.
sion of ..sins should be preached in his
name limong all nations, beginning at
Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of
these things, and behold t send the
promise of jny father upon you, but
tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, un-
Lor<|, teaching th^m tjo observe all til ye be endued with power from Ori

manded

Pnd is

' ijhings whatsoever I have,
you— and he ''thfjt^ he^

■ ' baptizeq^iiii|iiJHtoK
, Was jbh»t^ tMpSl^^^aiwi | ^ >tfflfe^

\ uSKtHy,- ^dMRt it is evidontiE|i^**ne.(1id
tea8h;,t(Mn aliout bilptxsm. What did

■ he do i^for rJiom. ())*4; - 'fho'ief<)r
.we are buried witt, him by baptism

liP^to' death, thftt liWiir as Christ was

^aisjjj^ tip* fr#ra thft dead by -jthe

^Ipry of the Father -r'iBven ^ we

also.shofld ^kiyln *hewhe.ss of life,

of rhrist," says

* in particular."

h is his iKxly

it, then

*• Ye
Paiil,

are ,
"an
Then if i;
and He at
baptize(t in
9l(urch. , Thj

l)oUy,
hould al.so

wp >)|;'e
into thoj

high" Here the Apostle was com«

inissioned after the endowment of the

spirit to preach repentance, etc., lie-

ginning at Jerusalem^ . ''Whosesoever

sins ye remit tliey shall lie remitted,"

HtniH awarj; th^re is no Iwtp-

tisuT'^^neniioy^^ here, but ft tells theiii'

what <l*iey*^re' to'tto. How were they

to remit «ins ? They certaiiily had the

pojKgr -'t» 'remit "* and i%t*iii^ sfns

'Were t1iey ^to sa^ to people who

/^^NK^O . co0eittX} them, t f^rj^ive your

^?™ki J^"" '*'*5i*^ tiy the ordii

^AM^Mve t(y-^^.-When^

,ter th^Ji^ddniiisnt, Peterpfeached sev-

Hl■aW^^ eiAT pricked in their hearts.

Whai_)v<i8 t^iiit? They w^re.cojivinced
ofv«iri- liere is a ma,ti4peaking under

/•<■

'^1

1 .'I

fll

Vi::

!•

tm OOOPER-LEVERTON DKlBATE.

the gift and power of the UoIy tipitil
and the people were oonvietea under
it. If ever a man should speak truly,
be would do m> at that time, and he
wa9.<)ualifled to do it. What does he
say! "Repent every one of you and
te bapiiied," etc Now here baptism
takes plaoe Jbefore they reoeived the
Htidy Qhost^ thai is by bapti»m^ and
that is how they remitted mnf«, ar^d it
was through this ordinance, that thiiy
were roroifrd. I am afiked how the
young m«in will be. saved in jail, not
being haptiaed. The plan of salvation
reaches as high as heaven, as «teep as
hell, and as broad as eternity. John
6 : 25-28, " Veiily, verily I say unto-
you, the hour is coming and how is
when the dead shall hear the voice of
the Son of God : and they that hear
•hall Kve. ♦ * « Marvel ijot at
this : for the hour is coming, in the
which all that are in the graves shall
kear his voice." Some p6op^e wonder-
^ Ml what Obrist was talking about, and
lie says ** marvel wrtt'at this," etc.
This shows that Christ's voio0 will
reach the dead, they are not «hut out.
1 Fet. 3 : U'lO, "For ( hrist also hath
onoe 8U0ered for sins, the just for th%
unjust. thiM) he might bring us to €k]d,
b6ing put to death in the flesh, but
quickened by the Spirit. E^y- which
also' he went and fft'eaohed to the
spirits in ppis(m, which sometime were
' disobedien%'' etc. These people lived
on the earth and were disobedient and
Jesiis, many years aft^rthey were pat
to death, preaches-to their spirits You "
umy si^ this means pulsatory ,~but here
we have^it in the WokI of God. r Pet.
4 : 6, " For this cause was the gos-
pel jpreached also ' to .them that are
dead, that they might be judged ac-
cording to men in the flesl^, but liv*c
. ao«ordin^ to God in the Spirit." This
1^ whatjt.'waa ."preaehed to them frir;

Muue principles. In the case of the
poor fellowliil the Jaili if he dies with*
out the meanH 6f grace God has pro--
videdawayio reach him Htil). The
wicked shall be put in hell, with all
the nations that forget Gcid. Because
these people wene so unfortunate as to
iie banished from the mear>s of grace,
according to ray brother'e statemttQt,
they wduld'have to suffer foij^ver. »T
Ijelieve God hoR provided a roeains for
them to get- out, because they didn't
have n chance to be saved. My oppon-
ent said loMt night that I would not
prove this. Solomon says, " It is a
wise man that heareth . a matter and
then judgeth it." He says it ap*
pears that these passsses bear me
out. The Bible has^to be taken as
evidence and it will bear me out. I
have nothing to say against theBreek. '
I wish I knew more of it^ .but to mt
it to get out of corners is making a
wrong use of it. My JijMponent has"
been trying to' get froiiiifTOur m'inds
the idea ^ water baptism. He will
give you some Greek. When Christ
said to go and baptise all nations, what
was the word loused f ' It wits ^fBap-"
tizo," which ^means to immerse, to
plunge>, and nothing else.. J* Raino"
means to ^prinkte. Then Jesus said,
^* Go out and immet^ all nations for '
the remitoion ol sins." So it was ne-
--cessary for salvation. IliV <^i'tli also
wa^ immersed, ' " ^

■■♦ If

Uu^t thity may Iw judged according to
men i^ th^. flesh, etc. I believe every-
ope will«]ygiJ)roUght " tp 'God on the-

"'I „ < *

OMe of the
le dies with-
fqd has pro-
iHtil). The
ill, with all
i. Because
tuAate as to
r>8 of grace,

stAtenittiil,
foii«ver. »T
a meains tot
they didn't

My oppoit'
[ would not
8, '*It i(i ft

matter and
«ty« it ap*
M bear me
e tliken as
me out. I
t theBreek. '
» .but to Ufifj^
Is making a
uponent has
your minds
}. He will
^en Christ
utions, what
t was '^Bap-*-
mmerse, to
. .."Rttino"

•fesviR nnid,

nations for '
Q it WHS ne-
p eartli also

IV <

'■^■

THE ObOt»KR.ti5VERT(XN ^^^''^^

MR.;C(M)PB'SjTHlRO RtPLY.

-i**fr.

y ^Ir. €ii.\if«"MAN,.L.\r)i.i;« wnw (.Iknti.i-;-
ji^jf^^My (4>i)oneiit btjenw still Ut Iw
tiiyalitipd jujil tor »<»i""' rmsnn li«' has
obtained nf '»''P ♦"''•"^' ^'"' Moniiun
(lod by >v# t't' til*' '4^^ ^^ ^'»^' '"'"'•'
prfttiitifHi Wf t^muKcv - Hr liiis, Im»w
pvdr, tjikijii buck whnt Ir^' miuI in
d«n>'injf 4"' ♦'t«^«""'''" *'*"' "Dnivt
W4MJ haptiAi<l for our sins and 1m' ik»w
owns up thrtt hn (lid iunk«* »t, whiiji i"-
honorabl«| He should l>e uiow' ^'aif"
ful in hisj deiUuls us well us iu his
assertion**! - He wanted t*. \m' allovsod
to hav0 his »no(hj'rutor, Mr.. McInlo«h
^plain the wAi-d • "bnpti/x>." T am
quite willinjj it" h« will own up, that
he cannot handle tjie subject, tliat
Mr-.. MoUl1.«JJ^h '«^riik|l take Jiis pliico.
but I am uo^ now dtsteus.sini; the ijues-
tion with .Uj'.Mdntnsh and Mr. iMc-
rnli>*«h has no «i;;iit y* <h'l>at« the
<|ue'iti«m. M«". I.<.'\ «'>"ton has, fven
" without the Ui«tttf tlie 1,'ilft of the in
tprpretatioH ni tongues, l<'ain('(l Uuw
to pronounce Uip wn'tl "bapti/o." }U

wu> Ut find out /»e (JoH|Hfl method M
salvation is to /,

aetw «>f our WiViour. If we -cUnnot
,1ind the pl'ai;
'wurdK where shall We lOok for it?.

It is a remUrkiibhr tact ttvit in all
ClniHis teaehinj< he new«* **ttiil Wie
word alsmt baptisiii with w*t<'r W»r
the rfinussionpf sinsor tht; iinmersHitt
ui the iwdy in. Vvtt^er a^ ..(ssenti^l. for

salvation , ,

Did.Iesas i)re>u-h hfs.own goHpeH
Tf he djd then the .u'tKspel ♦»!" saivitiioii, ^
by inu<u«jsi<.n is anotlier W»hI»*»v7^^
.lesHs nevei- pmaole'd, it. >N hen did
JesuA ii.stiluie the «jtfdinance ot bap-
tism ? In the early part of his nunis: ■
try ' VVtien did the Apostles practice
it i In. tl.e begihninK ^f ^hilji/s min-;
i^t,vy. «ftapt ism was not iuhtHu tetl^l y
the time the commission ^'"» ;li|[|fc|t^v
The cotnmi'^ion pD^petuat'-d it^fMT
ilul n(.t institute it. Clviist pieacheffr
liiVi.wn jiwspel certainly lis we^ as tlw
Api»{»lhWaiul he certainly undei-^tood
his own gaspel and the law of pardon,,
as well as jftormou preachers do to-

d« * < 1 . '■■■'■..■
ay. ' . » , * *

Now, let nj< exainine the lawf ot -.
pardon' or* remission, as taught- by '
Christ himself in his own a||jkl^
111 .John 3: U, JesuasjJl^MKAnd

tn nrnnounce the wnj'tl "l)apti/o. rue m .'omi >>. it, «.-v...... ■pn-"

La'CuKl that from his opponent as Mo... lifted up the. serp|^ the
., i . ...:n I ,>..» ;f he i,. .,•> ant ' w ( erm'ss. even ho nwist tlfe «on of

'mi

11.1 .ii".-v - ■•»v» w «, r ■ •

' wilderness, even ho nwist the »on of
Man be inte,d up. that whosoever
Wlievevh m hi»» should n.>t /periwh,-
but have everlns-tina life" • Here we
have '• everhistlng life" and the con-
dition is faith, not baptism. Again;
.t,*o' in -su)>i.(ii t .,f mv '• f<ir Ood so lovt^l the world that' he
1 ^iMl pKH^.d ^u quote "gave his only be.olte-iyon, ^-'^^f ^^^^O;-
'r . .' '. . * ,1.- ,. ix. »;,.,«« I in hiin should not

and be will leaiii more if he is ,anr npt

sohi>lar, U\o\v he fr<»es home. Ille has

■jtpven to his frtHo\ters Iumv the rpte,

hftwoveivmul tll^■•y nre apt seholar.s,

for they all faji|«lni<i in constantly

repeating, hi - wPP ^' atement, t hat I

fivb"'iu» >c-Ayt^y in-sujiixn t of niv

„Vguiaents. . „^ .. ,

manv texts to-f<i'.ht in givui',' you. tlie
.... , ...... ., .,y

, ue
„^ say J qMt>W no ."^cripture. -?Tl>ey
repeat tins i^latemcnt as a pitrPfj"; <loes
ontil on e is we a riefl of hearing the

manv t^xis mj-hi.."- »■■ ri"'"-> »■■"■. —

gospel metliod^f piinlon. Still the)

will go otit oi^is ImllAnd contti,iu(

, toftay 1 qUtilB i'lO Scripture. -?Tl>e>

kWurd and false statement

.We are discusf-ing-.the most yital

question of XJhrjtjjgty and t^e surest *«^iafac^

S)ever i)«U('\eth in irnn should iiot
pLM-ish. but have everlasting hfo.'"
He^-e again we have the cmabpion . of ,
iLuKtilicafion or pardon. - In this pas-
'wamwe have the wMe gijspel and for
ulPiiges tj ^t'no imfaersion in water
-v<' Everlrtstuig life" isciiu-
lie sipner' himself
Eaith not: .baptism.

•'1

I ■

THK OOf

Afnin, •*tor (Jod gent not Wrain Sito the
world to condemn th« i^pH ; but that
the world through him might lie suved.
He that believeih on Hia» jh not dori-
deinned ; but he thi%l Inilievoth not i«
condemned ulreody liecauso he hath
not believed in ^he name of the only
begotten Son of ^(lo<l," Man's con-
demnation is rl^ved by pardon ami
pardon or reniiiMftn jh here condition-
ed up/m faith ioVJ^sus Chrtut and not
upon buptiHiijblith woter.

Again in tohn 0: 24, Jesus stud :
"Verily, ved^y, I say unto you, he
that heareth my worda,^nd believetli
on him that sent me, h^h/everlasting
life, and shall not «omil into oondeni
luktioh ; but is passed from death unto
life." Here the sinner is passed
from tleaihj^ unto life upon the
Simple oondmon of faith kut immer-
sion. Faith in Jesus Christ is the
one and sole essential condition*^ of
the justifiootion of the penitent si'n-_
ner. If faith is the oiie and sole
essential (sondition of the^oenittfirt.
sinner then immersion is WSL fbW
it is excluded by the words d^
sole

(jr NfBATR.

■ft

aird

AgjUnJn .Iw[.n «: 2H-'2{), Jes^dfefHi
♦•Then said ^ley'unto him, ^yhat^ull
Ave do, that we might work tlie works
of God ?7 Jesus answered and said-
unto them, this is the work of (Ictj,
tlMlt ye belii^'eohhiiii whom he hutli
sent." Hfrejjtht^w^ik ot'God iif "i^^iut
ye be ieve onhiui There is no |,ap '
tism wit|Jp(ttter here As re]5«ntnnc(v
always ^^es before s^ing faith," so
it precig&s it here, and water baptism
comes after remission of sins aii)d is
symbolical of thfe inward cleansing by
the Spirit. Baptism «rith water is
"***' M^ essential to salyntioii in
any siifte* much less "in the iibsolutu
aipse. .

Again in John 6: 40. Jesus sa^.s

"And this is the will of him that i^ent
me, that everyone which seeth the
8o n»a ad believ^j on him, may have

HverMiogJife and I will raise him
up at the lost day." In all these pa«-
s'lges JesuH attlrnif* a ilirect>nd inmto-
diiiteconnc«tk)n Ijetweon faith in him

!l[l|ifPiP^V>«'«M^ «*Wnal life, upon
raflh, not an, act resullihg from faith
Jesus 4|llirms that coudemnatiou i^ re-
ipO'Ved. ■■■'■ ■' •..*.'.■" ■•#'■"

Agi^iA ♦o illustrate his teaching,
JesuH for^'ttvo wins upon the simple
condition rtf fn{th. If ,we can Ku'i out
how JeNus nin^tted sin in his life, we
shall certainly know his niethoil of
sttlvi^tion. The first example you will
findinRUtt. 9: 1-7; Mark 2: 1.12-
Lukft 5: 18.^6, '«When Je.nus saw
their^aith, ho said to the siiJ^of the
pslsy, son, thy sins be forgif^ (hee."
This penitent sinner's 'sins were IPor-
given on the one essential and so^
condition of faith m Je.sus Ohrist

•^JiBsus did not say: Peter, I see
^Wjat this man has re{)ented, hllfecon-
l||sed me by coming to me ancf has
fafth, now tafce him and immera© hiuu
Not one word jjs .said about baptism
for the reniisHion of sins.

Again in Luke 7: .36-50, we have on
illustration. Tlu>n6<jf weeping, peni-
tent HJUner ,cdn.e.4p, Chiist and siies
for 4),lHon. ^^.She showejl hef. peni-
tence l«|||er tc-aw Hn(Trie|us .said :
WHareft forgiven." . t^Tliy faith
^ed Miee." "do j'u peace."
■ not say to^Feter, or John or
,^ i»*s, » set' that "this vvoujan has
iMMird^ has believed, httM repented, has
confessed, now take her to a pond of
water and immerse her and then she
shall rec-^ive remission of sins. The
Apostles were all there and ig would
have beeneasy to have ordered her im-
mersed and if ihunersion ijad been
essential to salvation she certainly
would have been informe|t <^ the fact.
Jesus said not a word i&ut bjiptisift
to the . . • f

prior, woman, but he said " thy
faith liath .sayed^hee.

This case sets forever aside therrbc-
trine of Baptismal Remission. If bap

.'fi

THS edbPER LEVBRTON DEBATE.

tiim in water wm not; hocoiiRAry in
this instance, it is riot necesHiiry in
any case. To avoid this com<hision
you mus£ deny thut the law of par
•"lyion hiid down and pmcticrd by
Christ himself while On eartlj is still
in force. If this is not atill the kw
of pardon, then Christ preached Ihe
gospel while upon earth and his
Afk^tles another after liis fisuen.sion.
Chrmt did not teooh baptism for the
remission of sins. Isat possible that
Christ would preach for three years
And not once mention baptism for the
. Amission of sips if^ baptism were an
e^ntial ? Tim ca*se is a clear dem*

' ^^P?*''**'* **'**^ *** exactly corresponds
withlHie comAisaion, with Peter and
withjpji). Where did the Lord re-
pudii^teTis sayingaand actsil) record-
ed in the jfOBl.

As. Jesus t Aches so do the Apostles,
1 John 5: 1, "Whosoever bftlievpth
that Jesus is the Christ is Iwrn of
God," 6: 10,. "He that believeth ou
of God hath the witnes^ in

the Son
himself.
Rom.
confess

10:8-10, "That if thou shalt
with thy moutb the liord
Jesus, and shalt helieve in thine heart
that Cod hath raised him from the
dead, thou^B*Mllt be saved. For with
the heart man believeth unto right-
eousnessand with the mouth onfcssion
is made unto salvation." Here is a
positive declaration that salvation is
conditioned upon faith and confes-
sion. Not one word is said al)out bap-
tism, 'f

^Again in Acts 13: 38 39, "Be it
known unto you, therefore, men and
brethren, that tlirough this man is
preached unto you the forgiveness of
si n s , a nd by him all that believe

a re

justifie(l, from all things, from which
ye could not be justified by the law
of Moses." Here juatifipation is con-
ditioned upon faith in Christ, not upon
'baptism. f-"

In Rom. 3;, 21, 26^ 30, ••Whom

Crad hath set forth to be a propeti«*
tion through fnith in bin blood, to
Hrolare his righteousness for t.h« re-
missiun of sins that are past, through
the forebearanoe of Oud. To de*
clare, I say at this time his righteoutV^
ncss, that tie might be just and the
justitier of him which believeth in
Jesus. Seeing it is one God that
shall justify the circumcision by faith
and th^ uncircumcision through faith."
Here we have the ground and the
condition of justification. No other
Apostle gives such an elaborate des-
cription of justification and in all
his writings he sets forth " faith in
Jesus," " faith of the heart" as the
one and sole condition of the justiQ-
cation of the penitent sinner.

The second feature of Paul's ser-
mons is the absence of all allusion
to baptism for the remission of sinH.
There is not a word in all his
writings about baptism for the
remiss on of sins. Here Paul
and the Mormcyi^ «nd Camp-
bellifes differ. Wi'
in 1 Cor. 1: 14-
tlmt I baptized

Cri8pus,"etc. How could Paul say this
if baptism in water wore an essential
to salvation 1 Contrast this with the
teaching of Mormon elders who al-
most continually harp on tbis doc-
trine.

Now turn to Rom. 4: 1-8, "What
shall we say then that Abraham our
father, as pertaining to the flesh,
hath found? For if Abraham were
justified by works, he hath whereof to
glory ; but not before God. For what
saith the Scripture '/ A braham believed
God and it was counted unto him for
righteousness . Even as D a vid a l s o

Paul's views

thank God

of you but

describetli the blessedness of the man
unto whom God imputeth righteousr
ness without works, saying, blessed
are they yrhose iniquities are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord
will not impute sin." Here Abra*

-B:

THE OOOPBRLEVKRTON bEBATK.

• 4'

hAm'ii juHtifloAlion Im mndo tho pattArn

o)f our ju-Htificiition. Ah Abruluim
wH« juMtitioti «»» htiull w«^ Ik', tav I'nul
rtnyh : III >oi«o» J.'l, J I, "Ni»\v it \vll^
tiot wt'itt(>ii for IiIh sake nioiit', thai il
wuM iiiiputiul to hill) ; hut for ys nlxo,
to whom it Hhiill Im- iinputt'd, it' w»'
jbelirvf* (»ri hiui that niivd up •Iohuh
nui- ' [^tnl iroiii thit <k>atl.'' Hut'i'

. r«'mi»<Hiou wuh hy t'altii not I apti.sni.

. " Wu ufo rufuri'ud to .lauu's 'I: '11 •
lil, *' NVa.H not Ahruhaiu our t'ath«M-

. juHtiKeti hy works," otc'f W«i n-ply
Ahrahiliii w'lH justiHotl hy faith as a
Mitiiitn' whmi li« UjJipvtHl iUnl. H«?
wnH jUHtiHed l>y works ii» a niiint H«niic
twenty-rtvo ye ir« after whiui'he olferj-d
Isaac in olH>diencu to Ood'.s coiniuand.
We liavc ihuH searched the HcripturcH
for th« law of pardon and not oue
word »lo we tiiid that corresponds with
the pro|>o8ition tlmt uiy friend, .Mr.
liCverton, hns allirmed and X\u\ <!♦»«-
trine lie preaches, , Tho pioposition h«
attempts lo prove is as falstj as any-
thing Satan ever ptdnuMJ otT on the
world. It is ealcuhited ta leiul pin-
ners astray, for it is directly contrary
to the teaching; of .'esus (/lirist and the
teHchin;,' t>f the Apostles.

In answer to the thief s pn-ver,
\vitho\it haptisni with wati'i' Jesiis
H'lvt^l the thief on Ine cross. .K'sti(<
said : "This day slijilt tlioii lie wilfi
.Vie in I'aradise. Heif ecitainiy is .-i
clear- ca.He of salvation and f hei'»^ is no
immersion. The thief must have
had his sins remit^ted before ^nteiinf^
Paradise.
V. Time expired.

MR. LEVERTON'S FOURTH SPEECH.

■MlJ. OhaHIM-VN, L.MtlKM VNDdKXTLi:

MKN, In the Hr.-'tt place my oppmeni
Naid, I did not ^ivc nnich time to tht-^
mutter. The reason A\a« that I had
not much time In^fore coming, and
hiiiuii 1 came I find it was nut nece^
sary He tinds fault with my U'inju
no scholar. 1 don't prid« in ity hui'
We are t ild thaj, tiod cln>oses the f<K»l
it'll things of this world to do his work.
H«! says in Kom. 0: 4, water is not
meant. He didn't prove that an»l
cannot do so. He says it doesn't men
tiun innn(;rKion. It ilexes mention hu
rial and that means inntierHion. Some
tran,s|ate_i's ha\e translated it innner
sion. I Cor. »li!: i;"J, " For hy oxie
spirit are we all haptized into .one
body, whether we he .Jews or UentileH,'
elc. If we are hiptised l>y the gOH
pel we ari! of tin; .same spirit. It i>;
hy the same „Hpiiit that "wo are all
hapti/ed, and it is by th<t power of
that spirit that we are bupti/i^d into
the one body, Tlt-li: 5, says: "It
is arejL(eneration,an inward wtirl^." Tin.'
Holy (ihost cotnj's after the washing.
TIumc are twtr waxhings. Peter never
said, "for the remission of sins." It is
there laid down as ;i posit i\e fact thuf
.lesHs .says, ye shall remit sins. \le
says that urtdt:^bteilly it does save.
He says fulure^rolMition is not under
discussion. \ym brought that ques
tif^ here ? r did not. He says that
the doctrine I presfint puts the Cath-
olics in hell. About imrgatory. He
says it is no) here, lait I say it is, and
(liod has provi<led for all conditions of

Innnanity. Ag.iin, if the heathen are
saved' without t»ic gospel, it would be
a blessing to us if We were all heathen.
As it is, .some of us will be tost on
account of the light we have, If that is
so you are justified in withholdiog

■y

m SPEECH.

:m vniiOkxtlk

' '"}' "|>Iw»i"'lH
;li liinf to till."
Uh iIihI, I hiul

uuiniiifj, uimI
wiiH not nt'ctb*
villi my \miiti
kit* ill itfluii'
«k>M«'s the t'(H»l
Ui do Ilia Work.
, wiitor iM iioi
>vc thdt hihI
it(loo«n'tni«n
K iiHtniiun bu
[101'Mturi. HoiiH'
t»'(l it, iniinor-
" Kor by oni-
ixed into .one
H Of OimtileH,'
(I l)y llitj goH

Kpiiit. It is
it wo are iUI
t.lio power of

liH|»tiz<;(l into
i), Niys : •' It
1(1 worli." Till'

tUcr washintr.

-IVtr'i- iM!V«»r
t»l' sins." It i,M
ittvt' fact tlm)
nit sins. | It-
it rioes save.
I is not under
;ht that ques
He Buys that
)uts the Cath-
n-;^'atory. He
say it is, and

conditions of

THE COo'PKR I.EVERTON HEBAflt

your money Uow inisMionui'y oollec
tlonii. I If tlip .goHjuil in p.-caolu'tl to
tlif^ni ntnl thoy ciu not Iw^lii^vi', would
it not Im> iM'tloi* to Ituvi' llii-ni to go
to licaxcn without il Tlif ,•>>'* It"*

till! pOWiM' OJf (i(Hl uiiti'MdNUdon. If
ycni an< «.onvt'fl»'d l»y'tliat pi'il'ijct
law, for tin* law of <J«kI will ■-uvi' tin'
houl, am you takr anything from it
and it nfmaiii ptsrjfuct. 'i'hcn what iti

' th« goMpel ? it iH faith, i«?^K'ntunc«,
hapti::^!!), tli« Inytug^ <»n of ha df<, th«
ieHurr«rotioi» <>f ih«- deiwl, and «'t»'rnal
punislnnnnt. \Vho>-o4'vri' traii'«givM.
xetli and liatli not tli«- son hath
not utmnal life. II my hrathnr i
can tak«i away a piirt of tho
go«p<il anti still ha\c th«> plan of sal
vatiotl, tlum it can idl Ik> taken away
and w« will iMjall right. Ha' says faith
will .savf usV I Vi» lievc the light kiml
of faith nnlst he a live faith. Uod
told Noah to build an ark in order to
be saved from the Hood, and by bin
.workaiul faith oontbined he vviis .saved:
I believe that in tin? kind of faith wo
want to luive. I ^o not lnjlieve
that the faith that will not (>bey
will Have. T Ujlieve that (Jod

has power to forgiv** sins just, /us
Ih! sees lit to f(»rgive them. 1

lelieve. tliat Christ hatl<tW|>\y<intxsay,
"Thy sins be forgiven jijjliKir ^A th<'
sick niitn. Ihit was lltfti H^^^''^''"''
that he »'sLablislu'd in tl..- TTospolf
He said, " Uo' and preach," etc., "and
he that lielieveth ami is baptised shall
be saved, and he that l»<^li«>yeth not
shall be damned." Tlu'y we admit
ted if thejl -did. 1 donV deny that
Jesus forg.vve sips iinnediately, and I
iun willing to be saved in iinyway.
He points out, but I viuist hold l<r tlu*

^ Word of (Jml. Paul says, '♦ I l)ap-

NtreM <tn ImpiUm, and it wan thr lame

Paul who told Agrippa that he iiinHt
tM>li« ve and U* Uiptixed, AlNiut the
ihief OH) the ertmt^, I haven't niueh t«i
say aUmi thai. .My opponent Miid
thai all the (Ntophv round aUmt weni
bapti/ed in Jordan, «o the thief wai
l>apti-/ed with th»i real. He put great
emphasis on that ptKnt. We are toid,
" No man can say that Avmn w ilie
LiHxli but by th« Holy (llwHt/' How
could the thief call Uiui " ^^*

.1.;

tized non<- of you," and yel In; says,
" I baptised some.' Ho was sent not
•to baptia;i>, hut to organize the church.
Yet he remembered that lie did bap-
tize some. He is tho only one who
re-baptized anyone, so he put great

eept yo eat my McmIi and drink my
bl<K>d ye cannot walk with me," Jeiius
Nai<4. Uonie left Him on aeeount of
these words. Uut tluH thief suith,
" i.ord, remenilKir me when thou
contest into the Ifingdom," so ho must
have had the spirit given to hiifi at
some time. ^.Then what about our
friend^* ? We are not diseUH«ing your
jMisitioli, but wo -are iliscussing the
Wordof(!od on these matterH. If
you are provided f<»r in any different
way, h(! has not yet t(»ld us of it. He
has not yet denied tho throe witneHses.
Ho says, r ferring to the type of
Christ, tlwit the Hiltle does not say so.
•He will admit that it is a type of
something. If it is not of that, what
is it nii Again, w(? havi^ the dipping
of the 1>ird in tlu^ ves'^el of bl<H>d.
He says this dmis not 'mean what I
say. Hi' says he believes in types and
shadowfj. This type niUMt mean some-
thing. What is it? He says faith
does not come first. 1 say tliwei»
nothing <hnw witlunit faitli. Faith
comes^by liearing, etc. When we
hear then vfc repent.. What kept
Noah out. of the water? It was his
iighteou.''ness. It -was because l>e
obeyed Clod that he wa.s jsuvcd. , raul
s-aid, " [ tijn not ashamed of tl>e go

'■§

-m

*■]

pel of Clir-ist, for jt is the power ur^x 4
Cod unto' till' vation." If Noah oliey- '"\.
ed h(B must have WUeved. What 4
gate did Jesus go through ? It was ^
the waUiffe of baptism.
■ ^v Time expired,

le heathen aiv
1^ it would be
re 8,11 heathen,
ill be lost on
ave, If tha,t is
withholdlitg

l#. >■.

tHK COOPBR-LKVEKTON bEBATtfi:

MR. COOPER'S CLOSING REPLY.

Mh. Ohaihman, Ladieh anp Gkntlk-
- MBN,— I rise to close the disqussion of
this proposition,

My friend quoted I. -John 5: 8,
** And there are three that bear wit-
. ness in earth, the spirit, and the water
and the blood." Does he not knoV
that the Revisern threw that passage
out when revising the J^, T. and that
it is not in any of the ancient MS8/
JVly opponent is particularly unhappy
in the choice of texts tliat are spurious
and that the scliolarship of the world,
has thrown "but, in support of his 'pro-
position! In the, last proposition he
qiioted Acts 8: 37, the confession of
theeunuch, to k«^p children out of
heaven, a tejft reiected by all scholars
becaiUse it is not in the original Greek,
aaid now he quotes one that is nut in
the original Greek, to keep thousands
of unintmersed persons out of heaven.
Why Joo Smith, has hot coiiie to his
rescue T do i^ot know, but it, seems
jjtrange that the gift of the interpre-
tation of tongues should be so long
withheld f rota my opponent:
, The gentlenaan .accepts now tlje pas- .
sage, that I pointed out.tojiim in dur'^
first proposition in Mark 1 : .5, " lAnd
there went out unto him all "the lancT
• of Judea^" etc., and from that state-
ment lie concludes thjjit the thief flSi
< the cross was b&ptized befori^.the cru:
Veifixion. Well, they ^ere all baptized
, of John in Joijdan, except thosenri jail
, and as the thief wa»s iii jail*'he cqu1(JI
not go out for baptism. J"

My friend infers that the convert
1^ Ephesus were baptized by hjfo^

cntes. and that the baptism was not
valid and he accounts thus for the fact
that Paul rebaptized ° them. But
there is not a shadow of proof that his
theory is true. My friend does not
like theories and tie should not indulge
in them. They said, in answer to
Paul, " Unto John's baptism.'* They
did not question the validity of their
first baptism, but that Paul explains
to them was the baptism of repent-
ance. Then again Mr. Leverton says
those converts were liars ahd were
never baptized by John. Wherfe does
he learn tl^is ? Will he p9|njb out to
y6u the chapter and verse wnenre they
ar6 proved to be liars and baptiisod by
false teachers ? A man must be hard
pressed for argument to resort to such
tactics as these to get out of*. a» corner
and avoid tht force and plsKn teaching '
of the word of God.

My opponent quotes I. Peter 3;. 21,
"The like figure whereun$o baptism
doth also now save^us (not the putting-
away of the filth of the rfesh, buf the'
:answer of a good conscience toward
God) by the resurrection jof Jesus
^hrisfc." Peter here tells us that in
some sense baptism, saves us " by^
the resiirrection of Je.su5> CItlrist.'i
Tn the parenthetical reading,' he
tells us (1) hoNv. baptism does not
save us and (2) how it does save us.
(1) It does not save us bj' the putting
away of the filth of the flesh. Now,
J||he filth of the flesh" here does nOt
^an literal dirt. The people were
not so ignorant' as to need such an ex-
planation. Peter did. not need to' tell
t|\^n that the Washing^ litipfa,! dirt
from theirliodi^s :s^t^«fii|i^<'**em.
TK^y, knew that,' •^'^ «
Mesh" meaps here^J
sin on the soul-,' Rw,^
which is filthy, letlll^

Filth herie most unquesT .

mor|l pollution- or sin.: ;rAgain i]ti
Jaiw^ 1 : 21 j " Wherefore,' lay apai^t^
all filthines$ and auperfluity of uOagh't* •

^irutioii^ CM"
11, "An^ije
5filthy.still||s
in^bl^ .mSahs ;

sm waa not
i for the fact
hem. But
roof that his
id does not
1 not indulge

answer to
am.'* They
.ty of their
bul explains

of repent-
verton says *
8 ahd were
Whet-lB does
?|njb out to
wnenre they
baptiisod by
ist be hard
sort to such
)f« ar. corner
fin teaching '

»eter 3; 21,
i^o baptism
the putting-
h, bur the '
ice to>yard
jof Jesus
us that in
s us " by^
i5« Christ. I
jading/ he
I doe^ not
3s save us.
ibe putting
lesh. Now ,
e does not
eople were
such an ex- -
leed to' tell
litipfjtl. dirt
' ^#% ibhem.
^b fi^Jllve .
ibirutioii^ CM"

Uthy.still||S.
abl^.mWhs;
'Agaih in-^

r of nOagh't* •'

THE 0Of>t»ER.LEVERTON DEBATE.

••»^.''

t»

inew" etc. Here again "filthiness" is
used to mean moral pollutflfjn or sin.
We also learn in looking up Rom. 8:
14 ; Ool. 2: 11 ; I. Peter 1: ;J ; 2 Pet.
JO: 18; 2 Peter 2: 10-18, that tbo
term •'flesh" (sarx or sarkos) moans the
carnal unrogenerate ,iBind. Tlien the
filth (fupps) of the flesh (sapkos) means '
tporat pollution or sin on the soul, and *
Peter says baptism is not the putting
(apolhesis) of sin from the soul. In
othep words Peter affirms that baptism
does 'not put away sin. This is in
harmony with coinm >n seiistv as well
as with the 'Scrip! ures for n<t one Was
ever liable to believe that Ijaptisni
■ saves by washing literal (^irt from the '^
hpdy, but men were constant ly liable
to supposjB that baptism "saves Us" by
washing sin from the soul, hence Peter
^ utt-ered these words of warning against
such an idei^^ and says baptism does
not put away*Sin from the soul. Bap-
tism is "the . answer of a good con-
science toward God." Baptism does
,not make the conscience good, does
not give a good c(.)riscience oi'^^Aeeure a ^
good conscience ; hut it is tho tiiiswer
join good consciieiice,' Imt i;s 'tho sym-
bol of inward puritication, it !isks for >
,that which it cannot confer. fJuptism
cannotask for a good conscience and at
the.same tii'ue confer it?. If baptism
is the asking for a "good conscience,
then it is plain that it cftnnot confer

1%. • . ".; , . .■ ; ■■

. ■ A man asks for that which he does
<not possess aild therefore- cannot ^give.
If we understand i<. in the seiisc of au
"answer" the result is the same for
baptism cannot be the answer of a
good conscience and at the same time

' j^ve it.'- ■ ■'.■■■,■ ■- ';■ .,'

Tbe i(Ood .consc eiTce, op remission ()f ,

. sins, is obtained through the resurrec- '.
tion'of Jesuij Christ, " who was deliv-
ered for, our sins and rai^-ed again
for our justificati tn." If it Tield
exactly as our friend tliinkfi it does,
it .would'^still be against hiin so far as

the immersion of the body in water is
concerned, for how are our hearts
cleansed from sin or an evil con-
science-? Not by immersion for Paul
tells us in Heb 10: 22, "Having our
hearts sprinkled from an evil con-
science," etc.

Peter then attirins that baptismdoth
now .save us, "not by putting away
sins," but by " answering" ,t<» that in-
ward spiritual cleansing, which is ac-
complished by the Holy (Jhost apply-
ing the bhxid of Christ t<» our hearts.

1 have now met air my friends ar-
guments and overthrown them, fshall
now close the discussion of this propo
sition by offering some objections to the
system of Baptismal Remission at
taught by my friend and those who
think as he does. .

1. This doctrine is such that no
Scripturally informed rnaii or woman
can believe it and when pressed to a
confession, they admit^that thousands
of sinners „ have retjeived remission of
sins and have gone to heaven who
were never immer.'^ed in water, but the
admission destroys the theory. Ac
cording to this doctrine, Luther, Wes-
ley, Whibeliekl, EdyJVirds, Payson,
Fletcher and thdusands of others men
and women who blessed the world with
their liveslahd died with a shout of
triumph on their lips, were aliens fj-om
God, unregenerated, unpardoned and
diefl* untorgiven and .were eteniflilly
lost. Bv!t the people who preach this «
doctrine do not believe this foi' no
man in his senses cai believe it. Yfet;
if they admit tRese men stived, the
wh(ile doctrine oi baptism for remis-
sion yf sm«, especially as taught by ^^
Mormons, tli^ inariersion «>f ^thfr body ,,
ini, watcn/iiJi' nothing else i{¥('^if]^tism,
tjiey teach, is destroyed. ' '"''^

2. This doctrine takes th^ salvii^ion
df tb<jf' sinner^ ,o6t of Christ's hands
and ; puts it iinto the hands of . a than.
A sinner fllay/be in prison, in th^vyil- ,
derness, -in the sands of af desert ojp ou

/■•■

^i^%m'''^^^¥&^f}e: k:^f.y%

f*L,'

THE COOPER LEVERTON DEBATE

the plainB, aloiie, dying, without an-
other human being near him.
"V^t, if by a simple act'' »>£' faith
itt' JeHUiis, ;losuH can save /liini
them is hope for hiiu. - l»Ht

: if the innhersion of tlio I oily '
in ; water he essential Ut sal-
vation then heVcannot he saved lie
cause there is no Mormon eld*^r to step
in and ijmmerse hini. There ai-e thou-
sands of the sick that eannot be in'j-
inersed without danger to health.

,- There are fens of thousands who live
where, from thd extreme c«)ld, they
coul^ not Im) immcrsnd, and it would

' be both unacriptural and unreasonable
to impo.se on them a mode of baptism
such as Is preached by my opponent..
God is not unreasonable God would

, not give man an ordinance that could
not be adihinistered under all circym-
9'taii6es, in all Qlimee and in all ages,

.'ito^the ainneri ;v ■_■; ■ • .-■':.'-:

V 3' This do6trine limits the efficacy
of the blood of Christ towaer.
There must not only bp water, liul
enough;to immerse the \yfiole ftod'y.
There are lilrge pprtioas of the earth
wfrere thi^ elijicacy of the l)lood of.
(/hri.st must . be limited by this doc-
trine for there is Hot enough water in
-these places to immerse a man.
' 4" > Thrs tloctrine makesi- the salva^

'■f- tion of muUitude.s impossiV)le as iii the
cas&pf tho.se , in frozen regions of the
notth^md of the siek.
., fJi Itscompletely .i^erses the gospel
plaR of * sttlvat!4oi^^Bhe gosppl phan
majces^tijth'* Gihnw^fner r6pent.aHce,
Mar^k If 14^5, " llepent ye and be-'

/fievs^the gospel,? Alatjb. 21;.32, '^But'

'^ the piil)licans a'ncj harlots, believed
hhn r^d'ye,'whe^ye had seen it"ro;

, pe'ifvted not afterv/jiid that ho might ;

•;;';.i«»li©ve>".'4- .■-"■..■:;/, ' ■ ,[.

J Ap^ts-20:. •^,' " Testifying* lioth to

' %h^'-^0^:, ana alsef -to the Greeks' xe- :
*pentanw; towilfrd God, and faith, to-;

„ ward our Lord .Jesus Ohrist." . - t . 1

' 6./*rhis dobtri^e'fiat^l)^. contradicts

the Word of God. John 3: 18, "He
that believeth on him is not con-
demned. This doctrine says 1m>, tlw
inan is condemned until iinmerwid in
■water.

' John :V: M\ <' Tie that beHeveth on
t he ISon hath e verla.sting 1 jfe." This
doctrine says this statement is not
■true^ when, it says a man must V)e im-
mersed in water in or^er to salvation.
Paul says : Rom. ?i: I, "'rherjifore
being justified by faiUi, we h«^e peace
"•with God." This doctrine IKiys no,
you have riot peace and are n*t justi-
tied by faith. You uiust l)e iijimer.sed
in water. It contradicts Pai^^^^er,
»lohn ami God hiniself. JeSis said^^
Luke 7; r>0, "Thy faith hath* ^«avf d
thee/^ This system of doctrine saya
this statettient of Christ is not trufef.
Christ says : "Thy faith hath saypd
thee. This doctrine says immersion
in waffer saves, not faith, (yontrast
Christ's woids and this system. What-
a dilTVsr^nce -,

P^er says : Acts IT): 8-9, " An^
God which knoweth the hearts, bare
them*\v^itnessj giving them the Holy
Ghost, even as lie did tin to us, and puts
no lufFerence between us- and them,
purifying their hearts by jtiiith." This
doctrine contHfidicts Pete/.and s'ays our
hearth; are purified by n'mniorrfion.in
water. This doctrine is another gos-
pel from that preached -by Jpsns and
John and Peter and Paul. It is a
doctiine unknown in God's'Word ex-
cept as a heresy to be repudiated. It
. never- was once preacjit'd po ftir as the
Bible record "is .concerned. It is a '
neNi' invent ion!! invented, l^inco the
days of."i^-]irist and of the. Apostlps*!'

Thcinlcing you ladies. and gentlem.en .
-for your careful attention I leave the

'subject with you. ■" , ;■ . .■'- ' > .

■' ■ '■ ' ■;''■ :\ - . :■■ ''"^ ■■■

expired. •

f-- "-"t^ffff,'

18, "He
ii^t coh-

imcrwid in

Heveth oil
ife." This
nt is not
ust Vie Hu-
salvation.

h^o peace
ifiys no,
n4t juHti-
i; iiiniersed

iath**«avfa
jtrine say*;^
I not true*,
lafih saVied
ihiinersion
(yontrast
;eni. Wliat •

^9, •'\An^
earts, bare

the Holy
us, and put
and then>,
ith." .This
nd says our
uiorrfion.in
lothei* goS'

.Testis and
I. It is a
'Word ex-
diated. It
) ftir ap the \
1. It is ^ •

liineo the
!. Apostlps*!'

gpntlemen .
I leave the

'.-M

-'XI.

„.*{»

: ■ * .

I^B BOOIC OP l-£OISl>4:Oifc3'-

PROPOSmON FOR DISCUSSION.

■■■' 'i

"Thi Book of Mormon is of Divine OmoiN and or E<5|UalAut«ow

With f HE Bible."

ELDER LEVERTON AFFIRMS.

'■/■

■ T

::*■ ■■;■

yfi I rUFRTAM'ft FIRST .^PFFfiH made inconnection wit hEphraiiu, tl

,- ...^,J ^^^'^: 1^ that he had written nn

^ Uiings on the altars of hia law, t

Mk. OHAiBMAir, Laoies anu Gentle- Ij^hey v^re counted aa a atrange thi

il«M.— Ttwaa said that eight " nights '* I hav0 looked in the Bible and hi

wbuld be too long to keep up this de- .fiot «und anything written to ^

iifcte aa people would lose interest, but* »r»im.' In Oen. 49: 10 we read, " .
it turned out differently. The hous^*^ sceptre shall not depart from Jud
seems to be getting larger. Thip ques- nor a law-giver fnim between his ft
tion has been much?" tal k jJBibP ut. until Shiloh comj^and unto hito si
Some have given their cpwlP" ^^ ***® gathering of the people be. ^1
and wanted to know what^T^ «8«;;^i8 the time i-ivritten^ in which Shi
of ^his Book. Some say wo jpiii^t in shall come. Again, did Bphn
preference to the Bible. "We do not make many alttirs? W'e do not *

.hold the book in preference to the>^

'Bible. We believe it to be the reve-^
lation of Qod, and that consequently,

i^bat it coptains^ of instruction ^ill -^ — ,.- , ...,.--- .

lead us in rif^t paths and be equal to i^ pronounced oi. him. Then m
the Bible. I will now open tine dis-i? /look in the Bible and we shall :
cttsaian upon ifc I would refer jrou Where the law is written to him., G
first to Hosea «: 11-12. Bec«ttii» Kph 48i 1^, "And Israel stretch^ «rt
raifahathmade,,nuiJ|^j^|4tar8tosin,altars right haiid, and laid ituponEphrar

> thaU be unto him^to sin. 1 have writ- head, who waa the younger, and
t n to him the' gr^tg^ings of 197 law, , Teft hand upon Mfdaaseh's head, g
but they wer« oodateda^ a strange ing his hands wittingly, for MaaiT
thittg< 5era.#e have j^staiewenV wi^ the firil-borA," Md *-#

IH— 'Ifr"^ «aawuv «■»»••» v« •• w ----- — w

it,*but in some pfkrt of the earth ('
has caused hjts laiw to- be writ^ten. '
first thing is to d^cover who EpbT'
is and to follow the. bleasii^ ol\>

f^'-

rjl

^w^%mr^w?^iiSw.Zy t

\,=--

»• '

•<>'»■

THE OOOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE.

Joseph WW that his father laid his
right hand upon the head of Ephraun,
it displeased him and he held up his
father's hand to remove it from Eph
raim's head. . But Jacob* refused and
said he (M^asseh), also shall become
a peoDle, |»tc., but truly his younger
brothk 4aU be greater than he and
his se^ shall become a multitude of
nat^^, Here in the blessing of
JacSB, we find who Ephraim was.

^ The greater blowing was to rest on his
head by his grandfather's blessing.
He was to grtfW into a multitude of

' nations, but he did not in Pales-
tine, Cttri. 4»: I, «%nd Jacob
o»ll«d unto hts sons and said,

rther yourselves together that
, mf tell you that which shall
UfaU you in the last days" Not at
tb«t time but in the last days, 49: 32-
96, '^Joseph is a fruitful bough, even
ft fruitful bough by a wall, whose
brancheti run over the wall." ♦ ♦ *
The blessings of thy father haye' pre-
vailed above the blessings of my pro-
genitors unto the utmost bou nd of the
everlasting hills, they shall be on the
head of Joseph, and on the crown of
the hisad of him that was separated
from his brethren. Here we find that
Joseph 1^ a greater blessini,' than his
prQgenit(ni», Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob. Their's was the land of Pales^
tine, Joseph's land was to exceed that
land It, Was to be of the utra st
bounds of the everlasting hills. Who
was to inherit that blessing ? Abra-
ham' had not even SO'' much as placed
his foot upon it, when he was blessed.
Di, 33: 13, and of Joseph he said, "Bles-
sed of the Lord be his land, for the
precious things of heaven, for the dew
and for the deep that coucheth be- ^
neatlii and for' tlie pi'ecious fraits^
brought forth by the sun^ and for tht
precious things* put forth by thfe^mo^n,^
and fortljeoWief ;^ng8 of thtf dn^Unt

of; !he:>sUng(^l|iUs,,.,|k,»d; 4v tW

.<*;„■

precious things of the earth and ful-
ness thereof, and for the good will of
Him that dwelt in the bush ; let the
blessing eorae upon the head of
Joseph, and upon the top of him that
was separated from his bi^ethrett.
His glory is like tl\o firstling of his
bullock, and his horns are like the
horns of unicotns, with thew he sh&U
push the people togetlier to the end
of the earth ; and they are the ten
thousand of Ephraim'* and they are
the ten thousand of Manasseh. Here
we find that Joseph was not to inherit
that land, bat the ten thousaikds of
Ephraim and Manasseh. Hei* yve
find the predictions of what this Und
was to brii)ig.,. forth What are the
precious things of Heaven; the thinj(8
of God, and the precious things of
Heaven? The revelation of God,
This land of Joseph is to be figurative
of the things of Heaven. And for the
chief things of the ancient mountains
and the lasting hills. This will be a
mineral land, of gold and silver, arid
for the good will of^ Him that dwelt/
intheb^sh. Here then we di.scover
that Kphiaiin was to inherit thatlan<l.
i>i(l tl;ey receive that inheritance in.-
the- land of Palestine? In Josh. 16:
1-10, you will fiijd where Ephraim did
receive his lot jind it 4Qes_jipt fulfil
the ilftscription. .Ngjun go back to
Gen 49: i:>. ".Joseph is a fruitful
bough l>y hwmII, whose branches v\in
over the wall." [f h« was to leciiive
that land for an inheritjuiee we must
bring him to tliat wall The l)r^,nches
, would be his children. What is t|^at
wall* Is. 16: y. «* For the field* of
Hishbon lanfjuish ami the vi/ie of
Sibmah • the lords ,of tlie heathen have
bl-oken down the principal {Ants
thereof, they uie come eve'n unto Jazer,
they- wjuidereil thcough the wilder-
ae.ss ; hei» j>r'i;R'hes are stretched out,.
they^<]ire g<.fto uvev, the sea." Here' "
.:»^ivfir|<iLhHt the prirtbij;»al pkilpts Were
broken d<ii*?n, They had .gone over

■ <f.ii ,

i and ful-
od wUl of
b ; let the
head of
hiiQ that
bi^ethreiii.
ing of his
> like the
^ he shall
i> the end
e the ten
they are
oh. Here
to inherit
usaikda of
Heiii ^e
this laud
i ^a^e the
the things
things of
of God,
figurative
nd for the
nountains
will be a
liver, arid
mt dwelt^
' discover
lliHt land,
ituiice in..'
•i^osh. 16:
iraim did
iipt fulfil
bac-'k to
I fruitful
iches I'uU
a rec(i}ivti
we must
br-mchns

t is i)fAl

fields of
vi/ie of
;heu have
1 ' (jfbnts
ito Jnzer,
wilder-
hen out^
." «ere
htn 'ivere
one over

' ■*

»'»■■ jf '

\'"\

THE aJOOi^KKrUCVBRtON DEBAT^K

-f^'

the sea to the utmost bounds of the
eyurlasting hillSi btit befotre they go
ov6r the sea they wandered through
the Wi^ildeniess for eight years and

over the seed of At^raham, tatOMytA
Jacob ; for I will cause their captivity
to return, 5nd have mercy on them,
God had two chosen families, and the

dime to the sea. jyo^ this woid says, people came to Jeremiah and said that

Is. 18: 1-3, «' Wo^ to the land shadow- God had sent them &way, but Jj?f^

ing with wings, which is beyond the mlah said they would return. Now

rivers of Ethiopia ; that sendeth am- we have brought them to the Ujd

bassadors by the sea, even iri vessels of shadowing with wings. Does not the

bulrushes upon the water, Miying, go land of America fulfil that prophecy 1

ye swift messengers to a nation scat- If not there is no land that wiU fiUit.

tered aiid peeled, to a people terrible There is the Messing of the mountaint

from their beginning hitherto; a na- and of the lasting hills, There is the

tioi^ meted out and trodden down, fisheries and the mines of America.

Whose land the rivers have spoiled. There is nothing grown any where th*\

All y© inhabitants of the world, and is not grcJwn somewhere in the extent

dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he of America. Ag>^ii^> wouldn't th^y

lifteth up an ensign on the mountain ;
and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear

Se." Here.we come to the land*. They
etd gone over thok sea and this land is
beyond the rivers of Ethiopia. It is
a land shadowing with wings. •J^'^hat
do we find in connection with Ameri-
ciat It is shadowing with wings.
Qonth America forms Q)ae wing and
Korth America the other. Agaih on
this land' of America is the eagle
which spreads. its wings.' Then, ac-
cording to prophecy, the principal,
branch is gone over the sea. If God
has brought Ephraimj into another
land, is it not reasonable to suppose
he would come to him and give him
revelations about what they should do^

'^od is no respeetor of persons." If
God. followed them over the sea would

, he not guide and direct them in the
;way8 of his truth. Is there any evi-
dence that the people inherited this
land before Columbus visited it?
There is sufficient evidence to prove
that a civilized race inhabitp>ted it

' have to go over Uie laric^ and over ^»e .
wall t^get to America 1|' Then; that
being Ibe c|we, is there anything in*
consistent to suppose that God would
be with them just the same as He was
with Abraham. To whom $.re w© ins
debted for this word ? , It camp
through the tribe of Judah and W.
counted a strange thing. Is not the
book we have, counted a strange thing?

* Ps. 85: 11-12, •'Truth shall spring out
of the earth an^ righteousness shall
look down from heaven. Yea, ' the
Lord shall give that which is good ;
and our land shall yield' her increase.
The Psjilnust comes here to tell 'US that
truth shall spring up out of the earth
and tl»e land shall j^ieldJiier. increase-
He was looking 16 the time when the
la4id\ w<>uUl not yield her increase!.
-What is truth ?, John 1^: 1!7, "Sano-
jtify theuV thi'ough thy truth, thy word
is iruth,*' What is, righteousnessY
Rom. 1^; 16-17, "I/am not ashamed
d^tlie gospel of Christ, fori it is the
pow^ of God unto/ salvMion to every^^

and they w^re advanced in arts and one that believeth, ' etc. For thprein

industri^.* They had ,also soi^eof the
religion that had,, been given to the
eastern people. Jer. .^3: 3fe,s '^*Ther6
will I cast away !|ihe seed' of Jacob,
and^ David, my servant, so that I will

*.'*,

•ffti

IS the righte6usne«H of God revealed '
f roin fMth to faith ; as it is written,
"The just shall -live l^/faith.". Then';^'
if the righteousness of-God is reveled
from faith to faith. It is His Wbfd

not tiVe.any of his seed to **)© rulers • that iii rfghteousness. Then thirdly]

„ .."■ . — -:: ■ — — . w- ..•..■. •" ' ■ - — "- — -. — ." . "■ •

^^f-a-.

.».;•••

tttX OOOnUWLlVBRtOK- t)SftAt«.

tliu dad will again blew th«
iof FklMtine 18.99: 1-3, "Wm
I Ariel, to Arid, th« city ^her«
dwelt add ye year to year ; let
kill Mori&Mk Y4t I will dis-
Ariel, u»^||r re. shall be heavi-
and sorrow and it shall be "unto

I prophet here fore-
the land - of Jem-
Rrhere Dav
is JHUngni.
It the um mBHirinn destroyed, that
temple is JMKyed, and that they
I scattered, so we find, them tiQtil
I ooming ol this bode. Verse 4,
Ind thy, speech shall be low out of

I du«t,and thy voice shall be as of ^^ », ^„.

tbftt hath II familiar spirit, out of the potter'n clay.

nd." Why would it, Im; a

spirit? » Because %\\ti voice

be familiar. Why, if (iod gave

Abraham on the eastern continent

to Ephraiin on tliQ western, would

iiot be the samelj It is to conie

out of the grdund. Certainly

I pteage of scripture ntpant Nome-

- Read verses 1 10 to X2, "For
hath pourad upuu yuu the

of deep Hleep ind bath uluded

- eyes, the pruphet.4 and t)t« rulers,
seers hath he kivereJ, liere

I discover that thetlp would be a

after the people nad been scat-

I that they would be left without

phet upon the ^ar^h. It wou'd

the Word <»f the fiord. Then,
Isaiah, it shall be likitabook that
led, and the book in delivered to
[that js Ieamf>d and he Wn F can-
[read it bieoHUHe it |s Aealetl, then
t delivered to on*i thHt iMnot i^'urn-
ad he stuth, I an> noti Jearned^
the Lord V said, ** Theae people
ne*i.r me with 'their„ mquth and "
I their lips dolionqr me, but^ave re-
"^ theii* heart far from ine.\ Some

written and ^ven to Prof. Anthyn to
read, but he said he oou|d not read it.
It wa« taken. to an illiterate Jad and
ha said he was uojeamed, then God
gavie him the prophecy. In many- in*
staneeo he pi^ved it to be the Word
of God. •• Therefore I ^wiIl ii|ceed to
dq. a marvellbns work\ among this

^ ^,^ people, even a marvellous York and%

iy where David dw^elt^ wonder, for the wisdom ofXtheir wW
m. Is it not a fact men shall perish, and, the uhden%ad^
«L . . , . . JM of their prudent teen shill be bid.

Woe unto them that set^ deep to
hide their counsel from the Lord, and
they sav. Who seeth us f hnd who
kttowe* b us ? Surely their turning of
things ttpeidedown shall be esteemd (ta
the potter's clay. For shall the work
say of him that made it, He made
me not, etc. Is it not yet a very
little while and Iclninou nhall be
turned into a fruitful field, and the
fruitful field shall be esteemed as a
forest, and in that day shall the deaf,
hear the words of the book, and the
eyes of the blind shall see out ot ob-
scurity and out of darkness. God
here f^vtfn a f'ign of wheu he aluUl do
thia nmrvelluurt work. The sign is Of
«i Jfiuitful field being turned into a
for69-. T|ie land was an accursed land.
y^oe to the land shadowing with ^
mi^&j fyhich is beyond the rivers of
Ethiopia,^ W^ find that the Jews
r,x», - - , V "t;«. " "r> ^^ dU^rsed because of the wlth-
Eulfilmentof Amds \ There would holdjng,of the early and latter rMib '
famine, not of bre«d\" but of hear> Then it is onl^ a Jittle while until

Lebanon shall be a fruitful field, tn
the year 1330 this book waa'given and
in the year 1862 the eiarly and latter
rains be«an to fall. The Kord said
thoy should ooiue iinl they did conie.^
Thp«, if tiiis is mH God's wOitl, where
is it? . HJs too late foi;, ft to. corner
now. "In tliat day shall the deaf hear, -
etc.?' We discover here that When
God would do this work* the blessiog

• '--^ -"•"" ^^ HWen woul4 rest on that huid, •

were transcribed from the plates ju^t as the-^gonpel was a blessing to
h i oh th iH rhcHfk of MoTOion w a s — the Jaw s , the b^iml i- e ceived sight, tlw t

«^M*

k ^vert heat
ft Uiat the I
lir joy in tfa
oice in the .
hteottsnese
iven. Rev
gel fly in th
the everlai
Bm, that div
»ry nation n
d pe<ml^ aa^
Tear God an
B hour of h
en the gos
th. Theii
Jr.joy in th
When tlie,|j
its purity ii
■th as it wa
«!n he said,
) deaf hear,
n* have th

m. Goof

If R. OBAIRM
N,~The mx
I heat so g
le of you n
afortable.
i the he4t
to speak i
you are gt
stion,' the
I want to 1
two w^s
tt^Al. JPin
lonent's 9r
dedaq^
m, or if^toi

■A

THE GOOMR LKTlRtOK t)il»AtE

;k ^vert heal«di otc. Amttlier thing U>p^eit!iid«Nlargum«ht|i orraa) onM,but

> Uiftt th(> vamh jUku ahftll iitcrease w« may preMnt an" jn(l«peQd«n^ Hoe

lir j<yf in thi Lord and they fthftU of Hii^nient, which, if true, our of>-

oice in the Holy One jof Israel, thfn ponent's must hf> untrue. Thifi io the

^bteotttnese ihall com« down from oburae I j»l|;ali take in the dieusuuion.

iren. Rev. 14: 6, " I 'skW another I shall not {q|Io^ my opp^fient in ^is

il fly in the midst of heaven, hav- pretended ariiimeh^ as ^ rambles

the everlasting gospel to preach to through the fiible in «ear(^>of what

BID, that dweH on the earth and to he cannot find in the Bible,\ i^y ineri,*.

»ry nation and kindred and tongue
d pernio saying with a loud voice,c
Tear Ood and give gldry to hio^ for
B hour of his jijidgment is cbm^.
en the gospel is to retura to the
■th. Then the meek shall inC^rsase
ir . jojr in the wo^ld^ :- '■'V;;.;-... '. 'V'-; - -
Wh«in Ui(8 gONpel comes to the'eitlh
itn purity it shall hm preached in the
■th asit was in the time of Christ,
ifn helMUd, "Goand tell Jphn that
)defliheur, the lame walk and thu
w have the gospel preached unto

m- ;.., ;'-, ■-- •■ .." ^ •■■■;..■. .

Mon of the Book of MqrniKmW of Jo^ ,
Smith. The Bible is an tttt^stranger
both to Joe. Smith and to we Book
of Mormon. Npt one word\is said V
about' either except that Matthew^
24 : II, include? Joe Smith,\ "and
false prophets shall rise and shall de-
ceive many.r ^ T believe this passage
includes Joe Smith, and that he is in- '
eluded in similar p«ssagei^ but il^ no
other way is.he ev^A onice referred to
in the Bible. My opponent quoted
Gen. .41 : 22-^6, "Joseph is a fruitful
bough, etc., 'and Geni 12 : 7 ; 7: 8 ;
15: 7; 25: 34; 28: 4 ; 4«: 4, tb
prove that the blessing of the progen- V
itora of Jacob was the promise of the
country east and soUth of the Medi- r
terranean Sea. He quoted Deut. 33: \
13*1% to prove that Jacob's posterity
was to possess America.' He quoted ,
Jer.49: 30-33; also, 1 Chron. 7: 28)
^ Ohron. 15: 8-«; 17: 2 ; 30: 18 ;
Exek. 37: 1 6-28 ; Fs 1-4 : 6, and some
other passagefe to prove his propoei-
-., _ ^ tion, that the Book of Mormon i» of .

«R. OBAimiAJr, Ladies akd Gbotle divine origin. Not one of these pas-
N,~Ther audience is so Targe, and sages haiu the slightest reference to |
heat io great this evening that Joe Smith or the Book of Morman.
le of you may find it somewhat un- If my frien^J's ai^ument had had the .
Portable. But you will romember small pox, the Book of Mormon would
It the heAt makes it as diffi^jalt for never fijk^e caught it, for; the argu-
to speak as for you to listen. J ment, and the Book of JAormon never

got within sevipral hiJndred years of
each other. I could explain the pas- ^
8iage9 he has quot^ but my time is
ifio v^uable now to walte it upon, an
enlaiM^tion tbat is uncalled for. I
hc|pMniy hand (holding it up) the
Bmk' of Mormon. ^-

m. COOPER'S FIUSP BEPLY.

you are greatly interested in this
stion,' the Book of Mormon, and
I want to ^ know its origin. There
twb wttys of oyertl^wiiig ma kr-
Ml. Jtrst, we 0% reply to an
lonfent's ^m^ments or to ;|ik pre-

and

pvjBrfhrow

Its

■ 1 r-

i}':\.

'" k

- \

^^'-

very name is

we may not reply a if Itshoqd. The name is Mid to be

. ««^*^;^Kijw^i^VJC^^;fc.^l:^« c *"5ev f

' "I

"I*,

I«"f. -

*j /-

from the reformed^ ClgvptUyt '«ud lo •UnanoiAl]^' Solomon ISpaxileling

niMiii " ii|t>iti good,", to oe tbe tiiune oj . Hbk'moni of the time Ami »pent his

^ t6«n. Thi« is uol til-we, 'fhe word ■ time largely in wiitdnf. He wan well

*♦ Mormon" m a Ureek " word angficjz? educated itt hiptoiy and in Omsk $tad

^. It* meann'' '^liobgoUiH," ''bug- l^tin. Jie Wrote essays *od romance*

IkemV "hkivi>uB shfrmonstftr." You^ andwaspneof the ftrs* to write and

will find it iw Liddetl and Scott^A targe H|>ec(ilAte upon the offigin of th^ earth

unabridged ikeek-finglish UxictMC ' inuunds in the Mississippi valley^ He

Hence , the Jioofc of Morjpon iiOi^tiM»» „h»ui a |bh««ry as to the peopling of this

tlie book of hobuoblinH, book of buM* coftifei^ent, ahd h«W that it was by a

hdUktB, book -of hideouts Hhe-uionsters, . - pei>ple of refinement aud of a oivilita-

used \fy nurses to fHghtei^ children tion t|ji»t had perished. Ot^t in Ohio, ^
with.

I shall idiow you that the Madk of
]ME0rmon ii^ not of dtvine origin but of
bas^' human oilgin; gotten 'gj^ for tW
purpose of dec^tion i^ntS fraud by
tow and'dcigraded charactf rH. I shall

beside the Aarth mounds, ne»r bis
housi^, ha became «xoitfd and h^d
ehciii investigated, juried in the
^ound« were human bon^, reU<is, dtc.,
moh M some of Us saw at the Ohl*.
^^ ^ ae^ Pair, relics of stone, etoi This

impeach alT th« yKittfesBeM introduced afforded, Spaulding mDpi/lktion enough
to prove its divine origin, and shall, to sft down <knd write «k new ti^pmanoe.
by Qsany witi^iussei) whose character The antiquity of the reli<» and the

cai>D\pt ,be intpeaylujd, prove that the antiquity of the jieople whose history •'
historieal part of the iJoo)ji Of IVfor-, he professed to give, led him to adopt ,
moa is tali^n from a religious nov41 ' the mq$t |inci§nt style of ^composition.
written"%\'9k)lomon Spaulding soon i!jo James' version, of the Scriptuwte, '
after the begi^ntLg of this t^^ntury, afi^rds him the test antique style, and
and tfaiit the reUgious poction of it m i$ adopted. , H«i' so frequently used
stolen .from the Bible. ' the expressions,- "It come to pass,"

I wi^U now give yon a true accoufti
of the origin of the Book of Mormon.
The historical part of it was wHtten
by Solomon Hpaulding in the early
part "f , this century. , "

Solomon Hpaulding W^ borA.at Ash-
ford, Corin,, 1761. He was educate

«i Now it came .to' pass," " Behold it
cMDe to pft98^ as to make the romance
ridiculous, Fjpom his knowledge' of
hi&tory and of the • classics he was en-
abled to introduce . many (xid names,
such as^ Mormon, Moroni, Lamenile^^
N«phi, etc,, etc. Mr. Spaulding con-
at Plrtin^id," Oonn Academy, and At ceived tlic idea that some golden plates
Dartmouth College, where he gradiv had bee^i discovered and that hiero»
atod in 1785, He studied teleology glypliics of an ancient people were
and 'preached for a wtiile as* a Presby* written upon them. He, of course,
terian minister. On account of 'ill fdund ftone. It was only a fancy, and
health he gay^ up preaching and lie- in his nOvel he only pretended to
came' Principal of. an Academy . at: t translate the story of a people whose
Cherry Valley, Jo^ Spaulding, his wanderings and suflFerings had b^n
brother induced hini t6 go out west to i written ther^n. ' *

a*li1itle town then called Salein, now Afteif writing a while Mr. Spauldinf

Oohoaut, in Ashtabula county, Ohio, altered the plot <rf his novel. ^The
HereJohn Spaulding, Solomon 8pauld- ^ews'whose history l»e prel*^ed to
^ hag arid Henry Lake had an iwjn narrfte wIbtc first started fr^ Rome.'
foundry which they continued to wo r k — He stopp e d, b e gan again and st a rt e d
until 1612, when the war ruined them them from ^wusaionj. Ihere were

■jIU.

iipent his

romanoQs
write and

thf^«arth
dley; He
ingof this
-, WAN by a
a civiliza-
tfeiaOhio,

neftr bu .

and; Ii*d
i in the
reiiCd, 6tc.,
t the Ohi^
eto; ThiH
m enough
f. vpmahoe.
tui and the
jse history '
n to adopt ,
nipositioo.
HcripturtiH.

style, and
ititly used
; to pass,"

Behold it
le rpmanpe
wl^ge: of
he was i^n*
xid names,

liunenileK
jldlng con-
tiden plates
that hiero*
lople were

of, course,

fancy, and
^tended to
opl*^ whose

had been

Spaulding
ovel. The
^tended to
•om Rome.'
l od st a rt ed-

.- '.Vlf •,(■

THU OOOtfcU LKVERTON DKBA^R

liivii his fbiir ionH, ibiue other personn, tlieVe were two' copies of it was Ijecause
•to., under diviae.direotiun, «itc. .Mr. thr Hrst wjim. not quite polished enough
SpMtUldii^ oalM his novel, tHe "Mjtnu- aiul M r Vatt«Hson told Mr. {Spaulding
Horit^t Found," that is a written liiA , to n.- write it and polish it up and
tory of\a lost people in an earth sotttu day he would make money out
mo«nd. He said (laughingly), one of it. So Mr. Bpaulding wrote out
day 10 Nathan Howard, a neighbor,- another, a little better finished than
that probably in a century from that-^the first. Iligdon stole one and the
time his account of the early irihabi- other Mr. Hpaulding got l»ack again
tants of America would j»e accttpttid Vhich'was the copy twrrowed and de-

as a true histocy . He littfe k new thivt
he was/ faying the foundation of utw
of the) greatest frauds of tjie cen-
turieitr . ' '

Air. Spaulding often read his novel
to the people, being u goSr)d-natured

stroywl by the Mormons' in 1833 or
1834. Thejittle punphtot n.y friend!
has . here on the . table is not the
Hpaulding manuscript, but a counter-
feit, gotten up by the Mormoivs and
founde<l upon the first $nmll nmnu-

man and foiid of company, when they script written by Mr. SJpaulding wli.fi
came in to spend an hour i»r two. so he started the J«wm fmm RomA Th«

came in to spend an hour i»r two,
that they became well acquainted wi'lh
its contents and/>vere struck with the
odd names in it which they ' re-
membered wejl |n after years aJi we
shall see .

Mr. ^paulding decided to get his

novel printed and he thought he could '" M<|i»uscript Found," which they

make money opt of jt. He had a
friend in Pittsburg, nun led I'lit tei son,
who had a printing house. He moved
■ u» Pittsburg. '" > '

In Pittsburg thei-e was a young
man by the name of Sidney Hig<ion,
born in St. €lftir > township, , Pa., , Feb.
1793. Sidney Rigdon lived on the
farmwitii his father until the lalter's
death and for ji while after with his
mother in 1^0, l^ut life was too lazy
to work. He got a fair education and
in time, went to Pittsburg to lear/i the
tanner's trade M 4his time his
friend and chym. LumtMlen, wa.s u
printer in Patterson's office Ybun
Rigdon hung arvutid the office 'so
much that Mr. Engles, the foreman,
complainetl; ot it. SU: Spauldiiig's
novel was in the printing office ai this
time and, 8idn»'y * igdon stwlt- a copy
of it. Thei-e- wei|Ptwo ct>pie!s of U i.M»
sides the small copy which ^r. Spau'd-
ing wrote firrft whci* h* '«tiirt*»(l the
Jews f.rom Home. Tbe reason that

'-.i

he started the Jews from Rome. The
Moriuons got it up to satre themselves
fiom exposure. The^ kere iMwlly
.frightened and as one 'f rautT^giusT^be
suppBujted by s,nother, they resorte<l tb
this 'Mbave themselves. They have a
bhea^igfeinted edition of the so-called

.j:^

carry around with them and when in
danger of exposure they prtxluce it
anil ask us to compare it with the
IUmiU (»f Mormon. The fraud is too
tranSjyirent to deceive any but the un-
inforu|ed.

MiT" Spaulding died in l«lfi, if'n
Amity, where he had moved and
vJ- here vhe for a while kept" ii, 4)ublic
housemjfe died frf>!n cc/iisumption. v
Kigdou took^the stolen novel, re,-
wrote it,^put into it parts of the Bible
which accounts for the religious pot:-
tion of it. Vou will fii)d in it lim. 2,
•21, 4«;'50, 52, 54; Mai. 3; Matt. 5,
2^^)^ 13, and many other por-
from the Bible. For a time
<vas a Baptist, then a Disciple;
1824, during a time of great
:oitwnent be conceived the
^tting up a new religion,
pon his stolen- religious
i' this purpose he revises
Mr. Hpauldi'ng's novel. and get,s it. all
ready to t)e introduced to the world'

rhere were

'faarwm^

:f^vi, ^ 9.,m.w?»^m»=m^'^^^:wi'h.yi:^m

*^.i»J

M'l.

■%^

h ■*

wm'

■\

JB9fif

THE COOPER I^VERTON DEBATE.

iHow shall U iiltroduoe it! Tn 1826
1827 hf mmtM Joo Hmith, Joe «t

^ fell into line for he
heard of the Manuvoript
ing worked for M**!!.
brother wo i w et iioe- in
had a rerelatioa.

Now, let us turn
a little tin}'. The

had himself

Found, hav-

I. Hpaulding's

1823 when he

to Joe Smith for
impoHtbf was born

Dm. a3rd, 180B„ Windsor Co., Vt.
His fftther's name was Joe and his
mother's nlune was Lucy. There were
six boyn and three^girls in the^family.
When Jfw wax Um year^ old his pa-
rents moved Ui i'almyru, N. Y. No^

Joe Sniitb' in one
witnesiteH to
the Book
Uierefore e
see if Odd
Mveiation, and
phe<< in hid
DTophet but

stone until one* day 'Jkw «(oli It tn
them. This stone beeame ailtirwir
the <»lebrated Peek -stone that to
the place of Jo^'s wituhhasel. ^
it Joe itaw Hights, traced hidden tn
surev, gold and silver and stolen p
party, and soon gatheriMl around hi
a Irand of lasy fellows who slept
the day time and worked nights, d
ging for treasures. Thi* Peek-sto
wastheUrim and Tbuntmim, pla
in his stovepipe hat, with which
translated and read from the pls(
Joe wandered about from place
to plaoe, waa put in jail for vagrsa
and debt. In 1823 Joe worked
W. H. Sabine. There he heard of i
'* Manuncript Found" and had a ret
ation, but as he could not g«t
manuscript h« must wait, Thi
years of mystery follow. Joe h
all the theories about the ancient p
pling of America, tha traditions t
were collected ftom Indian^, also
brew tradititions. The discover
ruined cities and temples in <
tml America, ai relics,
tery, bricks, etc., - etc. So wh

friend'8 chief
ivine origiQ of
n. We must
character and
such n man a
nt him chief pro-
chureh ; not only chief
a chosen prophet to fe-
llitroduce into the world the true re-
ligion, and to re-establish the only
true Chiiirch of Ood upon earth. The
pretentions of Joe Smith and, of his
followers are very large. Are M>«y

warranted in making such pretenti<itiiY Rigdon told Joe that he had
The fabiily of Smiths lived about book explaining all those theories, <
two miles (ir two and a-half mileAout had the wit to understand that s
df the town of^Palmyra, N< Y, and a book publishiBd would pay and, t
were th|^ (>e8t and toi*ment^of the with its aid he could start a new
neighborhood. They were evei*ything ligion.

an^ nothing by turna. ■ . The father of Great revivals were going on at
Joe, wa8 U well-digger, a cooper, and time among the Methodists, Bapti
he peddled 'root beer and ginger and the Prfsbyterians. Joe's moth
bread. The family made baskets and three brothers and one sister Juio
maple sujiiiu', while the mother wash^ the Presbyterians. Joe waa exeit
for a living pait of the time, It was he did not know what to do. Sudd
no ^isgrace to wash, but I'.er custom- ly an angel appeared and he was' t
ers were careful to take in the clothto
in thd^ evening after sMd washed th(^m.
Toang Joe was ah raept in robbing
ben-roosts and orcharas. Joe was
with his father while the latter was
diggiikg. « well for at Mr. Chase. A
peRoUar stbiie was fonnd, white and
about the Hiie of a child's foot. The

that there was no true church
earth In a second visit tiie si
said that the tnitb would wring
of the earth and tliat he wouid be
to a hill near iyimyra where ke wo
find it. In 1626 Joe, who had
ried Miss Hide gn$idj against
father^s wishes, returned to '^alm]

tfhilU r eii^f Mr, Cbi^ play e d w ith this Here ia 1886 Rifdon vwt e d jbiro

l<w «tdto"ii tn

MMM |lillirw(Hi

-Mtonn ihikt to
itvh huzel. Wi
MMid hidden tn
r and iitolen p
eried around hi
WK who slept
trked nights, d
Thii P«ekstQ
'buDimiai, plft
\ with which

from th« plat
. from place
jail for vagraa

Joe worked
re he heard of i
' and had a ret
ould not get
It wait. Thi
tUow. Joe hei
t. the an0ient p
iie traditionm tl
Indian^, also I
The dieoover

temples ,i& <
ralios,

late. So wh
bhat he had
liese theories, <
irstand that si
lid pay and, t

atart a new

« going on at
thodists, Bapli
18. Joe's motli
one sister, juin
Joe was exeit
kt to do. Sudd
i and he was' t
true church
i visit ^e an
would wring
t he would he
ra where he wo
»«, who had
mtlj against
rhed to '!Palm:
ATiait e d hiro

C"-#'

THE OOOPEU LRVERTQN DEBATE.

•pent threa or four months with
in his- Httlu log (tahiti. Tlit* {Mtupl
thought a Imrul of (!ount«irf(«iUii'H w<>ri>
at work. .NngnlHitow vJHit .ItM* ofU'ii.
At oiM) time Joo woh with tho angdl
all night. On liiH way hoiii * he fell
otrer a fence Hitd wuh unciinsciouH for
a while, when h« nwoke an angul told
him to (^* home aiul tell liiH fitti^ir
all that he saw. His father Haiti it
waa a iiie8Heiiger from (i(Ml and to fol
low him.

On8«ptHiiii.«'r22ml, |H27, ainidtlmn
icieringH an<l liglitninirs wliUu .lo«« wa^
praying ali uiigol cuuie out *»t' tli«^ hill
near Joe'n home and gave liiui a l)o\.
Angels struggled with legions t>f
devils that tried to keep the box back
Joe *got it and. waH told that with
Urim and Thummiin he could read
the languagf» written upon the plated.
The Urim and Thumiuim was nothing
more than his Peek-stone and ihe 1k)x
of' plateH wa.s nothing but Solomon
Spaulding'iH " ManuHcript Kound,
which Rigdou bad stole.n ami re-
yamped for the occasion. 1 1 wii:
taken to.Ioe's tog cabin and here Jo<
with his Peek-stone in bis white stove
pipe hat sat behin(^ a blanket in
corner of the room and pretended to
translate.

Oliver Qf>wdery acted as scribe,
While the translation , was g«)ing on
Smith and f^V^dery went to tlie woo<l8
where John the Baptist appeared in a
cloud, came to them and ordained both
of Ihem by the laying (m of hands.
They came back and protended to go
on with tlie translation. People cal-
led to see the plates but were only al-
lowed to put their bands upon them in
a pillow case. No one was allowed to
see them except phosen witnesses. \A.
plan was made to capture the plates^
Joe was in debt, and a writ Was gotten
'out « o seize his goods for debt. Joe
hid the plates in a bag of beans. If
they had looked' into the bag of . beans
th e y would 'hav e found 'not plate s ,

ulding's *'Mknusoript

r the interruption Joe

' on with the transla<

il payH th»m another

c •me to J tie's first miracle.
N'flHIHpihfglit' WON lM)Heig(Hl by tlevils ;
his liVLs and visage being distorted
by pain. Joe commanded the devils
to leavH him instantly, and Knight
said, m they left, '* I see them going
thrtiugh the roof." This was enough
tti eHtablish Joe's fame an\t>ng the ig<
norant. A farmer by the name of
Martin Harris is c<»nvinced ami jtniis
.ItN^ greatly against his wife's Irishes.
Whtjn Martin Harris Ijecame scribe
and tt>ok home IIB pages of the stolen
manuscript, his wife burned it and
the wt)rk of traislation was delayed
for ten months They waited for a
while with the hope that Mrs, Harris
would relent and give them back the
pages, for they did not knt)w she burn-
ed them. When they found that she
iiad burned them they proceeded to
reprtnluce as best they ctiuld the de«
ri>yt)tl pages and this was the cause *
the ten months' delay. When fin-
the revelation was ready for
printing Martin Harris soltl hii farm
for .S3,000 to pay for the printing.
His wife wtis so disgusted with this
and with her fickle husband that she
finally parted with him, refusing to.
jtnn the Mbrmons and go out wes^
with him. The Book of Mormon was •
printed in 1829-1830 in the printing :
tjftice of Mr. Grandin, editoip of the
Wayne Sentinel. Hyrum (for -so he
(ipelled his nbirae) Sraich^ JoeVhrother,/
capried the copy, under his coat pare-
,fully guarded, each day to the; Office.
He carried just w.hat ^he prijtilier cou.UI
set up each dity and as stMiCad it "vhUL-,;
printed he brought back " tK* copy/ of ,

\ manuscript.;' .'■-"'" .'.i-f;?:- ';;.'■■ ,;;■■■•":■■ ■ .;.

\ Let us now bristly examinelsheBooMv
of Mormon asVtb its hiijjtorical .ooii-
te n t s, t h a t»;« ^ re ad y -^y^n you the .^

:v^

■;y^»

'ft « ,,^;«3.^»"-}iK;v <; *y^:;^^;ii.¥K.;-;^'.i NT^t'^-a

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pauiaing rooa m loiJi or iBiiSr cau«a
Manuacript Found," or "The lioit Trilwu.".

Hbnbt Lakb, Mr. SpavlcUiig's busi-
BBS partner, testifies :

"Solomon Spaolding frequently raMl to
tefroma oianuscripi which he ^m writ-
ig and which he entitled the '^'Manugcript
ound." 1 spent many hours in hearing
im read said writings, ai|d beouBP^wefi
squainted ;||ith its contents. He wiuied
le to assist nim in gettii^^ it printed^^as a ,
Mk of that kind wonldtBiMt with a ready
bla. This tnanuionpt represMitad the

» ■•'

Ngphites and the Lamanitea. (
bloody wars ensued, iu which grc
tttdes were slain. They buried t
in great heaps, which caused the r
common in this country. Th
BoieniMs and ciyilixation were bro
view, in order to account for all tl
antiquities found in varioiis parts
and South America. - I have rece
the Book of Mormon and to my |
prise I find nearly the same histoj
ter, names, etc., as they Wei
brother's writings. I well remer
he Wrot^ in th«J ^

'. 'Mm '

^jPPUED IM/OE Ino

IMJ fMl mm tIfMt

»»«>••«», MM Vwk

(')•) 4ai-(Moo
('••) 2M-MSs-r«i

» W« *«BX/ .^^&

the Nephite portion of the fk)ok of
; Mormon than we have here? 1 have
^ken great paiiis to give you the tes-
tittibny (^ ttiany witnesses, witnesses
of the greatest, respeetability Jind of
the best standing |inn the United
States, so that you may know beyond
a shadow of « doubt, that the Book
of Mormon i& simply a reproduction
of Solomon Spaulding's historical
novel.

We shall now turn for a few min-
utes to Sidney Rigdon, who stole the
Manuscript Found from Patterson's

printijag office in Pittsburg, who met
Joe Smith ftnd who was so instrumen-
tal in imposing the great fraud upon
the unthinking, the simple and ignor-
ant. It is denied by Mr. Leverton that
he was in Pittsbuig before '22 and that
he viiBited Joe Smith in 1827. Let us
examine these qaestions. There in
'the clearest and, liest testimony that
he did viait Jof Stnitb io 1827 imd

and he got it from tlic printer to reid aaa
curiosity." Here we have olear proof that
that Rigdon had Spaulding's manuscript in
hi» possession in 1823. In the winter of
1826, Rigdon moved to Bainbridge, Ohio.
Soon after he was visited by his niece, now
>Iv8. Dunlop, of NA'anen, Ohio. She testi-
fies : "That her uncle, in her presence,
went into Ida bed room and took from a
trunk which he kept carefully looked, a
manuscript and came back, seated hiniself
by the fir« and began to read. His Wife.,
came into the room and exclaimed: 'What!
ypu are studying that thing again !' " 'I
mean to bum that paper,' Rigdon replied,
'Nd indeed, you will not. This will be a
great thing some day.' Rigdon bad the
manuscript^and he expected to make a gceat

thing out of it..

"Rigdon knew of the Book of Mormon
and described its contents before it appear-
ed. A; Bently, brpther-in-Iaw of Rigdon,.
and oae of the riiost reliable men in Ohio
at the time declares in the Millennial Har-
binger of 1844, page .% : "I know that.
Sidney Rigdon told me as much as two
years before the Mormon liook made its
appearance, or had Ijeeu heard of by me,
that there was a book coming out, the man-
uscript, of which was engrav«d on gold
Pl*tes.'V ^_L^_L *

That B
^ Joe Smitl

P0UEB(

Smith, sa;

"A niys
Smith's an
ed .money c

!dB9. E
D. D., an

dent of I

N*' Early
tenons str
Smith's cal
are moat Pj
ihg immeai
in the faitli
olergymAn,
Mentor, Oh

J.H ]^

franklin

",Asa tti;
giUrient, thi
Mbrinonisn
qnainted fo
oKmiim w«i

m « »m«^

•nites, the vfickod (K))-tiiin.

S. The family «tf Zarnliemlu who
ir*f^ JudahiteM or Jews'who left Jcr-
nsaleni about eleven yunrs after I «hi
The descendanU of the JewcH worn tie-
Itrbyed in wor or were iiJlmorbod j)*
the NephiteH. In u war the Nuphittm
were exterminated by the l,ain<>rtiti!M

.about 384 A. I>. Tlu» Li MiUrn

remained the sole p<tH>tt>K»rM ((f tite
Continent of A niertca arid Ixtniuse of
their sins l)ocaiiiM dark skinu-d. They
are the American IiKliun.s uccordiituto
this account

Now we have ilic |t«Mtk ••(' 4&l<>i ntoii
and its historioal portion is idotilical
with the "Manuscript FoUiul" written
by Mr. Spauldiii^. The i)alatice ot llie
book, thutis the religious portion, was
stolen by Rigdon and Sniith fnrtn the
Bible OS follows : Oneoiuhteeuth is
stolen by. chapters, one twelfth is
stolep by paragraphs, oiit>-ei;r)ith is
stolen by phrases and th«» whole of the
religious ideas arc stolen i-xuept '.soiue
of Rigdon's sermons. W« have now
jflven you an ucamnt of the Hook of
Mormon. In my next .sj)e<«;h I .shall
(;)(aroine/^Homti of itiii ubsurditiub aiid

in H (J nek. Ii>xrfun. He oun And
Mur'no and it itieanit ju»t what he says.
He has told you •^>mftthing that is
certaiidy out of exiittence ho far an the
word is coiicV'tiied. V lun s«»rry my
opponent ha« WH.«ited ho much time.
Until this ittme to li^ht'we never
Im'umI «>t' ."^oImixjmii .SpHulding wrhing
more lliaii (ihf r(iiii.iii(?e. I nni K"^ng
to r<!iul mimnliinj; from a|)«rsonwho huM
nothiof? to tto with the work. I,. L.
Hiin writiiiy thMii lluiio'ulu in I8M5,
MiiVH : ' • Til." S|)inildiiij» mauu.H«!ript
iNiinn ill III inv |io-si'Nsion in this vf'n*^.
In IS.fii.JO Kiy |i;M'tiier aitd I Inujifht
the olUcc ot the r.une.svitle T«li'''i«i»h.

riM ... n I

lite t,i-uit.slcr ot tvpi's, etr., wiu«
uocoiiipuiiii'd by u «|imtitity of nianu-
s(ri]tt, the •spauldin;' maiiUNclipt
luuotig the re!»t, have hud it 10 years,
but never examined -jt, until six or
eight months since. The oidy wonder
is that 1 (ii<l not de.stroy it long n^jo.
.Many hive'upplied for it each one
.seemin;,' to think they had son/*; eluim
to it, Kilt 1 wuultl not sell it. ( 'ne
jiiuii wiMited if sent to hitn because he
uji.s c^rftt.iir^' up another b<x)k of Mor^
inun. Xhiti inuuu8uript is not the stoi^

In ih:i

her nio
mon w
hurt gfl
Mfirmo
from ll
and hat
Mr H
and at
manuhc
thatHo
but on
Mornio
If this
" grace I
so. I|]

Ue lu

>orth

someth

he do(

" TrutI

earth."

meek n

Lord,

rejoipe

Lattet*

were n

spirit.

linoere

That Rigdon came into contact with
Joe Snaith in 1827-8-9;

PoUEBOY XuqKER, who lived near
Smith, says :

" A mysterious stranger now appeal's at
Smith's and holds intercourse with the fam-
ed .money digger." (1827.)

!dB9. Eaton, wife of Horace Eaton,
D. D., and for thirty -iwo years a resi-
deht of Palmyra, say 4: '

X, *' Early in the summer of 1827, a mys-
teHouB stranger seeks admission to Joe
Smith's cabin. The conferences of the two
are moat private. This person whose com-
mi

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and ^mtli-
MEN,^-Iam afraid thirty pinutes will
be too short a time for me to aiay all I
have to say. The first thitig I notio*
on my notes is the wildcat bu^.
These men were not the only Oilti
that went into that business. Therie
were many banks that went down at
that time. My friend says Hurlburt
was ia Mormon. He was also a Meth-
odist. There was only one manu
script. If my friend had proved to

ihg immediat e ly pr e c e ded a n e w departur e you th6r e w e r e two manuscriptl W >

in the faith was Sidney Rigdoh, a backsliden - , -t . .^ _ .

olergymAn, then a CampbellitQ preacher in

J^entor, Ohio." X,

J. H, McCAULATrJii his history cf
franklin Co., Pa,, states . •

.".As a matter'tao well known^ need ar-
gttn)0ut, that Joseph Smith, the founder of
Mbrtnonism, and Sidney Rigdpn wcreac-
qoaintod for a considerable timebefore Mbr-
iDOQiim w«B first heard of," \.

would feel sure of it. Ho has not
done so. I have traced the manu-
script from one hand to anothw.
From the evidence given, Mrs. Mc»
Kinstry sjiys that the manuscript was
given to them. Other witnesses he had
who were not under 'oath. But this
is one tliat was under oath and tells
the truth. He speaks of a myst«riowi

m «> »m « »u» t vm -rt-vw

=+»v — n.m — u.viumti — htt

i>mn>;r iw >»»>»' M>n»' pnnrtnyio, Dm
in«>ni eiioHiitw. Htv was a<H:ui*Ml of
tli\i«rtii{g I hi* (M*«ipli* from lalMir, of
fniiiitntiiig iliviNiitiiM, «>f claiming and
•>xitrrininf( high and unwarranted
<>«'<:l«>Niit>«ii«-kl iiiitlMM^j^. Hid conduct
iitwurtln oiif ol^fiiMe priijcipal Mi-
tl«>i'H WAN high1|K V«Mfint«(l hy her
friendH. Thirt<>«n indioimentii for at-
U^grnl nffuncen wore found Againnt him,
but lwt'(>r«> tliH timt* of trial he rnturn-
«d to Kngland. H<i, •l6hn Wesley
running from liin tr'mh, lookml like
iHMitg guilty. Hut .loMflph Hmith stood
hif trial like a man and was honorably
uc<|uitt«'jl every time The Jews said
(.'liriNt wi'N an imf)OHtor. If I had
come iM'fore you uiid s{^d 1 was a pro*
tV«sur oi (J reek ancL liatrn, I might
have hud some chry^e here, but if a
man comeH Htrai)^t and honest and
Mays what he Ih and another takes ad-
vimtagi* of him what Hhall we call
that? When the Children of Israel
were driven from their land on account
of tranHgreasion they became a hifis
and a hy-word " Then Jacob's face
waxed pale. ' Not long ago th«
Jews were not allowed any position in
Bntrland, but now a Jew his been at
the head of affairs in England and I;

In 1H:U it w«H given to liurl^uri hy
her mother Hut the lt<N»k o( Mor
mon WHN puhliMhed in IH.'IU iluil
hurt gave it to a ptililiNher to expoHn
Mormoniftm. This man wan ciii. oiT
from the (;huroh and lH)U;;ht (his Intok
and had it printed for r«<veng«t. Then
Mr. Hire lHM»};{ht ih«- printing «'»ttlce
and after t^nenty ^'vms found the
manuscript. .My oppoofni ha.s read
that Holomon Hpaulding wa.H a Nchfdar
but on every |mg»t ot' the I took of
Mormon we Hnd grammatical errorH.
If this iH written Uy l^un h is u (tin
"grace for a Christ ian miniKti-r to write
so. l|i the 8pauiiliiig novel there waa"
ap^^ai)iOUH story and we n f ute that
He luWititK that llw argument of
>orth au<l Soutir Aiperiea may have
Something to do With it. I am glad
he does. Who told David that
"Truth nhall .^pr^n/* up f»»t of the
earth." Again, Isa. 25): l!t, "The
meek alwo increawe their joy in the
Lord, antl the poor among men .shall
rejoipo in the Holy One of "Israel.
Latter Day WaintH do not say people
were not enjoying a portion of Ood's
spirit. But those that are honest and
sincere and living according to their

p^:':^?i^-*^i%:.'A'

David and Solomon had many wives,
etc., he shall have one wife and Con-
cttbines he shall have none . The mar-
riage ceremony runs like this; yjju
both mutually agree to keep you r-
■elyes holy to each other during life,
etc. There are no- immoral laws in
the book. It is strange that his
writings do not sho V that lie was so
bad. I have drawn your att^niiou to
the passage in Gen. 48:^21-22, " And
Israel said unto Joseph, behold, I die;
but Qod shaH be with you and bring
again unto the land of your fathers,

America shows that it was inhabited
by civilized people hundreds of -^ars
before Columl.us discovered Amei
My friend says that the relics
in the mounds agree with this. This
was to be counted a strange thing.
Wouldn't God be with his people
when they canje to this land ? This
is Ephraim's land. Then also that th«
law of God should be- written to Eph-
raim, Ez. 16: 37.

Ps. 85: 11 , " Truth shall spring out
of the earth and righteousness shall
4pok down from heaven. These two

e tc.** 4 9; 22 - 26, Joseph is a fruitful were to lueel, truth f r om earth and

bough, even a fruitful bough by a
well, whose branches run over the
•wall. : . ,_^:__::.^_:i-._,.^„,^L.i:::,:l

The blessings of luy father have
prevailed Ik^ove the blestings of my
progenitors unto the utmost bound of
the everlasting hills. J '.

Also Deut. 38: 13-17, And of Jos-
eph he said^ "Blessed of the lord be

righteousness from heaven, Fiom
Zechariah we have foutid that the
truth was to be revealed to a young
man. In John' 17: 17, Christ says,
Sanctify th^ iii through thy truth, thy .
word is trutii. Tliis truth was trf
spring up out of the earth. The gos-
pel of Christ is come* down from
heaven,

^7>m»- — nimn wwjf , — ivi — \\y\\; ^ \ v\\ — % ^^u'vu

»MW > ,

^^^ »ayn wwsf r
wun> ki<pi,«iM u holl^^i^H^' in a box^
a t;«M>p.tr hhop, in tii«pHR^ in a' hole;
in the grfHind. in ifc^ vault, "t'v Alwj,
th'it '»%}»' had thciuall thtt time ; then
h(« <lid not havii thftm. Thre« miw
them by.^,1* iiiirauU* ; thif night hAw
ihtun ntid l^eftttdthifin^without a niirii-
oIp Kimna naw them urklt^r^ cloth.
VVhiliniM wiw tlu'iii in liin'^nther'n
tU'ld. Th«« aiigi'l, Moroni, gave old
l#nuiny Whitmw a wjuint at them.
l(f an) oni' want4<d to «««« tln-ni the
ang»tl had tli«m, w it maant death to
look at thsrn. The Urim and Thum-
inim were |K*ini(>(l diamondn met in
glaxn plates, that they w«ro a pair of
Milver specfcacleM. Think 'of gliuH and
K|iecH at the ti»H! of Haljel ? Harrin
Mayn they wore tw«» cloudy niones «o
large that a man i-ould l<N»k through
them with iMtth «v<'x. Now all thin ih
a fable. They hud no If rim and
Thuinniini. .Joo had tho iVeknttmo he
stole from tin* uhildnui of Mr. Chase,
and with which he pretended to trace
stoh'h pmiMirty and to f|nd hidden
treasurer in the e^rth.

Notice the size of the plates. They
were seven inches wide and eight
iMieslong, and th/) thickness of ooou

and lo there and many |>ei>pl« Nhall
follow them Well, thiin, s^him ihr
truth vmxw* tliwy that miirmur Khali
receive doctrine. Then tN reauon
that they will htarn doi;irine i« that
<i«Ki will fMtHbliih hit wi»r<l u'|Nm \\w
earth and truth \s\^ Hpring out .if
th« ground. E«. 37; 16, "Th« W.ud
of the bird Came again un»o me, way
Ing, take theone Atti;k,"i*ro. ilcrewt>
have tlie prophet telling uh that om-
Htick in to \m written on for .ludah.
that iM the Hible, and another for tlm
houdo «if JoNeph and hiM companiOoh.
Where tun you Hnd that ? 'I hoy are
to come tOge».her an<i U« joined to-
gether.

Time expired.

MR. COOPER'S SECOND REPLY.

Mr. Chairman, L^rmc.s and Gknti.k*

^K^.— H'' I txlinit all my oppiMii'iit has

said in <|uoting the prophet, that tlm

wings refer to the two .Xmerica's and

inhlstbited
of
Aiiaet

ica ii
is. This
»e thing.
js people
d? This
i that thft
i to £ph-

}riug out
teas shaU
'hese two

Eirth and
Fioin
that the
a young
rist says,
ruth, thy.
wus to"
The gos-
w« frow

wousanas^oi Jipiiraiin and they are
the thoueands of Manasseh. Isa. 18:
l*p, Woe to the land shadowing with
wings which is beyond the river
F.tbiopia that sendeth ambpssadors by
the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes
upon the waters, saying gt) ye swift
messengers, etc. Isa. 5: 26, and he
will lift up an ensign to the nations
^m far, etc. It is upon Ephraim's
lAi^ it is to be IifU>d up. Then the
tnils^t shall sound forth. It is the
trumpet/ of salvation which shall sound
iii th^land. Hos. 8:12.1 have
written u nto Ephraim the great things

of my Iaw,\but they were counted as
a strange thing. I find a prediction
andthe signs b^the prophecy fulfilled.
If you cannot see anything in this I
; cwi. These passages meM something.
It is too late for tiw book to come
now, for the time ha^gone past for
the prophecy to come A. Isa. 29: 9,
«tay yourselves and wonder, cry ye
OttVand'cryj they are druh)ten, but

us that there will be a time when th«
voice of God will not speak to the
children of men, etc. Has this pro-
phecy been fulfilled 1 It has, instead
of the true churCh coming down from
heaven we have had; about 100
churches. That shows that the vision
has been withhield and "without the
vision the .people perish." When did
God have a people on the earth that
He did not speak to them ? The dark
vision shall pass away. When the
book was given to the learned man to
read, he said : I cannot, because it is
sealed , then it wa s giv e n too an un -

learned man and he. d4id, I am not
learned. Therefore God said He
would read the prophecy^ Then He
said; forasmuch as thrse mouths, etc.,
I will do a marvellous work among
you and He did it. Some will say,
why doesn't it prosper? Did God'e
word evi^r prosper? Isa. 29: 24,
" They also that erred in spirit shall
come to/underatandifny. ^nA fWAir ft..*

ayit n>ny.
in a box*
in a^ hole;

le ; then
\r«« HAW
^ht hAw
L a niira-
'jk cloth,
'lather's
fiive i)|r|
at them.
h«'in the
(tualh Ui

I Th urn-
Met in

a pair of

liiHH and

Harris

lOIHlS «o

through

II this is
'ill! iinH
:Htono he
r. Chase,

to trace
hidden

1. They
id eight
I of oom.

\nn rim < ;»ttT\;» mi isnrvn > — mj irwim ^ mu vi»v iiani^ — mv»q pwiu am» wmtw

OTid the eldent of Iiim chun;h takn Jtw
Hiuith us th ir clii«*f witn#HM to iHtali
lUh th<? divinii origin of tiic lUt^V o(
Mormon. We must thereforn nxainine
his chnrai^t«<r and n«>«.« if hi' in u^!oin|Mf-
lent n^liicfM. Wcru thuir claiitiH not
NO large, and were it not for toe fact
that he is call<Nl an thttir chil^f witiiesM
we nhouhl not taka thn tmubln) to in-
quirtvintii h\n lifi\ Ah a private indi*
vidual it matters init' to iiie, but as
the L'liirf witiii'MM t<>' tli«* rlivint^ origin
of th« UiMik of Mormon, it iH uf grvat
moment. You will understanil some-
thing of bin character by rcaiRng an
acci)unt of the procitediiigs of the
Court herd in the town of Hainbrid^^o,
Uhenang.) Co, N. Y. •' F«*oplo of
Htat<( of N«iw York vs. Joneph Smith.
Warrant iHsutHl upon oath of l*eter(f.
Hridgnian, who informed that one Jo-
t*i)p\\ Hmith, of Rainbridgc, was a
disorderly person and an impostor.
Prisoner brought into Court March
20th, 182(). Arrnl Stowell sworn—-
Hays that he went to see whether
prisoner could convince liim that he
poBsesHed the hkill that he profesHud
to have, upoti which prisoner laid a
book open upon a white cloth, and

and Kigdon were ^ne(| flOOO each ttk
Mwiiutling th<f p4>0|)le oat of their
llft»utiy.

Uev. N C. Uwta, of the M. K.
rhurch, of KuiM|Ui*hiiMnah Co., Penn,,'
in IH.'U, made a nworn Htatement to
the effect that he had-been acquainted
with Joseph Hmith, jr., for some time;
being a r«lative of his wife'«t, and re-
Hi<ling near him, hail fretjuont oppor-
tunities of convenu^tion with him. He
is not a man of veracity, and his gen-
eral character in this part of the
country is that of an impostor hypo<
crite and liar.

Eleven male residents of Manches-
ter, Ontario C«>., N. Y., Nov. 3nl and
4th, 1 833, 'tnade an affidavit that the
family of JoHoph Smith, with whom
the (Jold Hible originated, are a lazy,
indolent, intemperate set, and their
WiM'il is not to )m> depended on.

I n the same year, on the same day,
in the same vicinity, Hfty-one other
men of standing state : We, the un^
dersigned, have been acquainted with
the Hmith family for a niimber of
years, white they resided near thie
place, and have no hesitation in say*
iog (iiftt we oonuder th«n deptitnle

not one word about ib? My friend

. quotes Ezek, 37: l5-2iS, and explains

' the sticks there, by. claiiniug tliat one

has reference to the Book ot Mormon.

That text is claimed by uitFerent little

sects. Prince Midiuel, I think, claims

one of the sticks,, and, when he gets

out of prison my friend here, Air.

- - Leverton, and he may settle the mat-

., ter between them. I could explain

:^ the text but I shall not waste tlie

time now, only to tell you that that

paasage has not one iota to do with

the Book of Mormon or Joseph ir-mith.

vr-

MVfV/ V««W«S «4«^

I do not find one thing about Latter
Day Saints in the Bible. I do find
sotnetbing about an apostacy in the
last days. 2 Petef 3: l-«, "This
know also that in the last days peril-
ous tiines shall comd. For men sha] 1
be lovers of their own selves, covet*
epos, boasters, proud, blasphemers, 4i8-
obwtient to parents, unthankful, uur
holy, without nattirol affection, tr\ice>

Latter Day Saints but a Latter Pay
Apostacy. A nd it fits Joe Smith and
his polygamjist system exactly. My
friend wonders that I should attack
character, and he tells you that evil
things were said of Christ. The differ-
eiT^in tihis case is vhat :was toid of
Christ, >vas false, utterly untrue. What
w;a.ssaidof Joe Smith and the other
witnesses to tKe Book of Mormon, wi|p
true, too true. Ch rist challenged the
Pnarisces to convict him of sin.
When my friend lefers to John Wes*
ley, and says that he was tried in a

court, ote , he knows^that nothing was
chat'ged against him but some small
complaints, such as refusing the sacra-
ment to One who had not made a prb*
per preparation for it according to the
rules of the Church of England. ° At
least he ought to know it.* Christ
saidj " Ye shall know tlienn by thsir
fruits," and by this test Smith and
the witnesses to the Book' of Mormon

Uke, th« InnguaK" »" uniiiiAUftitble
and tjM« tlcKutunnt caltml Ueh..ii«l
MarriagM im by Jew Hniith Hit wan
not only thu author of that foul bTot
on th« naiiir »l Ohhatinnity, hut \w
wan in practice* a |Mi|ygiiniiNi, am th««
foilowtnK affidavit will abundantly
prove.

Baii Rrkna rhino. Oallftjrnia

Der. Ml. I8H3.
|n». Mary lUlph, lying duly
MjjMUM'K and nayii : I liv«d in
Nauvo<v^., clofMt Ui th« houMMilJiw.
Hmith, ju«t)li»r;ms th«^ fimmI, nonitt tiuii!.
\ mIho w»m pn'M«hVttt n pul.lic nieot
iag, ami h»!anl tluNlV«»pli«t JoMiph
Hniith Huy whijn prmchtnir ||«*r<« \n
Bro. Ilriglmui . if «v«r lnOe^dH thin
ohuroh, Iw will lend it Ui hollTShul I
lM«li(tv(>d \w wan II truo prtiplmt
Utni. I w»ut w««ll ai:(|uaint«>cl with the
two Partridge girls and the two
Walker girls, and thnir two brothers,
William aud Lorin Walked, they were
orphans, and lived in the family oL
Joseph Smith, but I never kifew they
were any of them his wives; but I
saw Susie Walker in 1847, and she
had a young baby in her arms ; she

\ TV Hg

hllU

u th« ihu-if witn«ii«i thikt niy frn»ni|
hail to pniducii U> prove ihi,t the f)<N>k
of .Hormon U of equal authority with
theltibk '

Now let UM turn Ui the thrm wit
ntm^, i\farttn Harrin. Oliver Cow-
d«ry and David Whitmer. Next to
Joe, tImMi «n^ th« prinoi|>al witnitSMtn
reli«<l u)M>n to provn my friend'n prc^
IMMition. Let un examine them.

M'ihe iNHik of iKictrinra and Govs
nanU* Ixi tru««' then l»«»f.»rf iliese wit
neiMM«H «!ven pruti-nd d to N«r tli^se
plates, Jon Hmith, in a pmtnnded re-
V»>lati«>n, pr«i«M.nt«d the plat<!N with the
revelation telling them first what to
say. In March IHpy, Joi, Smith gave
HarriH a pn<t««nded revelation rrt^which
theulentioal words of 4he tesii'mony
of the witnesMM occurs. In that re-
velation Harris is told t«i say that he
iwvjl .seen the plat«<H when \xv hud n«>t.
Tlu>iit|Ut«ninnt of the thre«j witnesses
to the^ilt^k of Mormon is a joint
•tatiunent, without date. Tt h(is every
mark of fraulNtid collusion. The
witnesses are n«»t in(l*»p^dent but in-
terested witnesses fi^hii^ gold his
farm to got the Ijook printed, „^
peoted to make money out of

tttter Pay
Spiith iiQd
Btly. My
lid attack
that evil
The differ-
'As said of
ue. What
the other
rmon, w{|^
enged the
of sin.
l^^ohn Wee-
bried in a
•thing \faa
sme small
the sacra-
ade a prih
iiig to the
land. ° At
t. ' Christ
k by their
mith and
E Mormon

By seventeen of the most competent
witnesses I proved that Solomon
Spaulding wrote and was the author
of the historical "portion of the Book
of Mormon. ''I will now show you
that in more than twenty features the
Spaulding novel and the Book of Aior-
mon correspond. The plot- of the no-
vel was the same as that of the Book
of Mormon. Spaulding's novel pur-
ported to be a history of the abpri-
S'nes of America, so does the Book of
!6ri^on. It attempts to account for
the tthti(juilies of America, so does the

Book] uf Mormon. The novel assum-
ed thfat the Israelites were the ances-
tors of the North American Indians,'
no does the Book of Mormon. It said
the Israelites left Jerusalem, so does
the Book of Mormon. It said they
left to escape divine punishment, so
says the Book of Mormon. They
journeyed through and from Southern
A sia by land and sea, so says the Book

tnc iNortn American Indians. Ibis is.:
what the Book of Mormon says. The
names Nephi, Lehi, Laban, irfunaiif
^■ephi e I^amanite. Alormoh, Moroni,
Amlicitfe, etc., were in Spaulding's
novel, so ihey are in the Book of Mor«
mon. The use and characteristics of
these names in the nt)vol were precis^r
ly the same in the Book of MormODi
The novel was written in Bibls styls^
so is the Book of Mormon; , '■■.■■'■

"Now it came to posa^" etc/ (Sj^
peared so frequently in Spaulding's.
novel that it made it ridiculbus, so
those phrases make the Book. of Mojp*

mon ridi<?ulous. The original from
which the manuscript was translated
was taken from the earth (that is,
Soomou Spaulding pretended to dosb
but he really did not), so are the pre*
tentions of the Book of Mormon. -m
In the Spaulding novel <me wrtf
of emigrants landed near the IstomuK^
of Panama and imigrated in^ north-
erlv direction, so wtva tha 'VJBftftir «#

friviif)

ly with

Be wtt
■ Cow

fext to
tn««fliMfii
in pr«>.

I Guy

IM) wit

th«M
i«d re-

ith the
rhat to .
h uAve
^.Vliich
imimy
mi re-
hat he
ul not.
tnt>MHes
I joint
» every
The
>ut in-
)td his
nd ex

■J

hiuj who iih«ll kM< titiit uitil (rtttiitul
llirani Hinith charuM ('uwdery with
rcthliing hi>« fnthcr, pliinrirrtiij; hlN own
houa«< itiid forging n note iigi»uiiit hiin
Miif. H«t MayM ; '* Pf«nton» tpiint« to my
houNr whiln I witM in pniMMi, uMii ntii
•Ackrxl it nikI citfiiml awity initiit'y itiid
my valuulilfM. Amoiitf Oiom* wIin
tr«Ateiion with liiM
brothet, Olivier CowiliMy, tiNilc from
m» A gri>»t many thin^^H. and to cnii
thi) olininx of liii« iniiiuily, i-on.prll
«d my ii^ml fiitlior, \>y thrc»ti?ninK to
bring a uioh u|ion him to iIiwmI i*V(tr to
him or liin Itroilirr Oliver, iU>out 1 00
a<TfN of lund, to pay h noli* wliit li hii
Mitid I hiul givon to Oliver tor >!<tO•^.
Huch note I confcs!^ f was uiul lun en-
tirely ignorant of, und nfter maturu
conitideration I have to luiy that I ie-
liiive it to \n- It forgery " (Times und
SeaxonH, vol I, pp. ti'J-.l ) .I«m( .SmitJi
MvyN Cowd(M-y wiim ciiit oil' tVeni tli«<
church for Hlnnder tmd fiilHe 'Ntatr-
mentM. HiH wonU wvw : " About thin
time then) w«>ri* HevernI peraunH living
in the far west who wvtv cut oft' from
the cjiurch, These character^ were

'.'^

««l MuriminixMlando|)«niy <l»H!lan^i hl«,
. t«(itimuny to tiH» Riiok oi Mormott, e '
tin Il« (iiMi «ti a|Nmliikt«>, » druiit'rn
Mt'. and a liKitiitly wmok. Now ycni
havn ilitt^ charaviitr of O Oowdery. Is
ho II ('«Mii|wtimt witit«MMi that tlte tWiok
•Mf Mormon in itt divin« origin! I
think not.

Now let UM Mxaniinn David Whit- «
mor'n iliaracttir, Whitmer i> inclnditl
in the CJoog. Docuimmt |H9, A. D,
IH^I, ugHiuMf Cowdery, which charg«id
Whitmer ^itti \mnif n HienilM*r of a
gang of thiev4*M, i<ounUMfeiteni Mlid
bhioklegN of the deittieNt dy« and I *
hu\e alrnndv HhowHi you that .hm
Hniilh (in TihteH and S^iwonH, vol. I,
p. MO), MHyn that Whitmer whh one
who «|tinilered the .SnintN imd made
fiiUe HtiitenientH und won at one time
plotting t<i rob the Snintii.
J In Tinxm ami Heaarmi*, p. H.I, Joe
^inith says: ' Poor PholpN, hait no
Oilier dumb beast to rid** 'wut David.
Wliituier, or U» forlmf liiH madnexs
when he goes to curse Uruel Hut
thi.s <iNN (n()t \wi'u\a of the fmnf kind
UM Itiiliuun'H), therefore notwitlistand,
ing the angilt appeared unto him-
* * ^ Yet he brays out cursings,

unworthy of confidence. We proved
tliat the next three witneates to the
dinhe origin of the Book of Mormon,
Mfcrtia Harris, Oliver Cowdenr and
David Whitmer, Mrere liari, forgers
and oounterfeiters. That the remain-
ing eight witnesses: Celestial Whit-
mer, Hiram Page, Jacob Whitjner,
Joe Smith, sr., Peter Whitmer, Hy-
ram <Hmith, John Whitmer, Sam
Smith, were incompetent and not to
be relied upon.

We drew your attention to the con-
tradiflt»» y »nd absurd statements as

%^V «\^1A«

nye nunareq i<ii»v uu»j

bocTk, r. 1. <

The hiatoVioal part of the Book oi

Morition ista^enfrom Mr. Spauldings
novel. This is so certain th^t th*
futile efforts of Mormons toVj^ver
their tracke by getting out a cheap
edition of a little pam|K1et purport-
ing to be the ^panlding manuscript
is^ppatint. This Ijjttle book is not
the Siiulding manuscript, but thu
big B$)k of MorDfion is (holding up
the Bbokof Mormon.) the religious
porti<*n of the Bbok of Mormon waa

stoleA by Rigd<in and Smith fi-om Uie
Biblk You will findlsa. 11, U, 21,
48, 50, 52, 54 ; Mal. 3 ; Matt. 5, 6^
7 : k Cor. 13, and many other chap-
teri" take© out of the Bible. One-
eighteenth of it is taken by chapter^
oXtweKth by paragraphs, one eighth
by phrases and all the ideas «M«pt

sigdon's sermons. ,.

Yl_ ei^lained to you the meaning of

to the plates. Joe Smith gave Martin

fiarris a scrawl that he said was 4

fao-simUe of some writing on the

V platea. Harris took it to Prof

t Anthon, of New Jork City. Prof.

Authon describes it : " It was indeed

a nngnlar scrawl. It consisted of all

I kiadt of crooked characters; dispoeed

f in ocrtumiii, and lad evidently been

pntKraM .if UiK wtMrk. DavhI Whii
in«r UiIIn how ti* wm« iMhiviiicmi of thn
truth of MoriuoftMiii \\» wttnt into
the wood* afi«i wimn inantu tap, and
having Itllml two Urift* |iiii|it liwiwluttt
to rvturn bum». Thn unp iMH'Aiiiit mi
heavy he stoftiMNl, kii«lt diui prayiMi
that if J (Ml Hmiih wan » tnin )|r«»|>lint'
and th*« pialm n )(niiuiii«i rt«vn|iitioh
from Uod thi%' ^le Mip inighi, l>« mtuim
Hirhler a« a token thereof. H« arone,
took up th« Nup, lutd AM it fi>lt liKlitAr
than wh«n li« ni't it down h«i wam com
vinoed of the truthuf Mormoiiism.
H« WM (iu|Mi<| t«jt,.MmvH atHo thtit nn
angel plowuiJU^ven aorm of (and for
him in tlKl night, nnd thiit ar| »ngnl
sowed ntflvtin acr«N of pUxtor for hiiii*
(o enablfl him to go ii» Ftmn to m»>v«
Joe, (8e« l.ucy Hmith'n Hi*t. pp.
Hi'A.) This in one of my friend'H
witn«MAM. Who mn hnvi- any con f!
dericn in Huch a witnuMN f

We now turn U> Mui-tin lUrris.
He wan n man H»i«ily »«)u;itod, and h«
Kild many vondnrful Mtori«H. He Haiti
that th« U. 8. would Imi (l<!iHtroy«(l if
thoy did not accept Mormoniitm i>i
four yearn. llarriH nays lit* saw the
lievil, and tha( he was a jackass with

at a wi

ititwuB, intvnwtml m the ^wfik
(}nan<'iA%, and who Mkid Ui hU wif«,
'• U thn wlioln affair is a fraud I e«
iNH^t bi makd mtmny out of ii,"aiitnot
iw ai.*(}««piMi.

Th«* itiirht witniMMM nay th#y «aw
ihf piatmM, that on th*iin w«ri» oharac
ten* of ouriouN wtMrkmanahip. How
tlid th«y know that J«» had tramilat
«ti th(MK) piatHN 1 Hc»w did they know
tliat an angnl gave them f o Joe t How
, did they know that the Rook of Mor-
mon waA a traniilation of the plaU*ii 1
They wiuld know that thoy naw platea
hut thit^ oouhl not know anything
mom. rh« witnniuiMM ar« all a gang
of l<Ni Hmiih'M followftm Of thu
night wiint«Mi«m thorn ar^ four of the
VVliifiiMMn, tlir«o Hniith's and Hy.
l*ag«, a bre>ther in-law of the Whit-
ment. Ho tbntof thi* tyrel^ witnaiis«s
wo have : Joe the author nl the fraud,
hi.H fatlior, a drunkard and liar, Hi
ram Sm'ith, Joe'8 brother, ami for a
whilo a l«ad«r of MormoniNiii, 8. H.
8mith, anothor hrotlior, David Whit-
m«r, C, Wliitm«r, Jacob Whitmor,
Peter Whitmer and John Whitmor,
fivo in all, and a brother-in-law of the
Whitmer's, Henry Pagt^ O. Cow-

Book of
pauldiDg's

toVsgver
b a cneap
b purport-
Danuioript
»ok is not
; but thM
lolding up
e r^l^otts
irmon w«»
1 fi - om the

■\

thank the chairman fur the uniform
courtesy and inivpartiulity with which
be his prasided over all the sessions of
this discussion. I desire ulao to ex^
presi my hearty thanks to the audi-
denc|e for the constant and faithful
attehdance of so large )i number and
for ^he patient iand courteous hearing
: you jhave accorded me and my oppou-

Fjor ten months previous to this de-
bftt0, I preaohed here in Tilbury twice
fi day to my congregation and iii that

1, 1*. 21,
latt. 5, 6^
ither ohap*
ible. One-

one eighth
eas w0pti

neaning o£

tini e said not on e word against Mor-
moni^ or any other denomination.
I believe in peace and, never preach
ajg^ainst other chi»rches from my pulpit
I do not think it right to do so. I
did not seek this debate. It wav
^ forccfl upon mip. T wax followed on
the streets and a.<<ked to deVwite. Mr.
LevertonT-visited tlw parsonage twice
«lld challenged, die to discuss the9e

of the moon, to shine in it ; fbr
glory of G(m1 did lighten it, and
Lamb is the light thereof. And the
nation of them which are saved shi4i
walk in t^e light of it." As evidence
that I have no hard ifeelings toward
my opponent I mm most cordialjly of
fer him my hand.

Here Mr. Cooper and Mr
cordially shook hands,

A hearty vote of thaiiks '
by Mr. Cooper, seconded I
ertou, and tendered N.
barrister, for the abl e

'¥*■'
-';>

manner in which he had pi
the sessions of the debftte^^

PAKBN.

According to the tei
ment, N, Mills, Esq , cha
if the audience desiiied. t
merits of the debate byf
of>ote, vote, came Upjk.

the (xitili
hU wife,
mti I e«
^" out not

,h«>y Miw
»• oharac

p. How

traniilat-
lay know
jet How

I of Mof •

R plaU*iit
nw plntMi
anything
1 a Kan^
Of thu
ir f)f the
itu\ Hy.
m Whit
witni>ii«««
he f r4ud,
liar, ni-
wl t»r a
in, 8. H.
Id Whit-
Vhituier,
Vliitmer,
w of the
^. Oow.

MR. UVERTOrS THiRO SPEECH.

MK. ChlAINII4N, l«Al*lle ANU OWTLt*

MM. —When tint* waa cail«Mr laei
nifht I wa« junt i<iit««riii|( ICavk. .17: 15,
bttt in ortier in givw you an idwa o(
what h«« i^mu «aki I will again draw
your attention ut Hcto. » : 11, i'i.
'* BecauM* Kphraiui hath madr many
aitart tn tin, altan« ithaU lie unto hiib
to Hill. I huvM written to him th«t
great thiiigN of my law, Ht." Here
we dincovvr that (i'od haa written hie
law* u> Ephraim, and the Bible i« the
law of Ood u> Judah. We havn not,
here in tha Bible any law of God to
Ephraim. Exak. 37: 15, iftyt: **the
word of the Lord oama again unto me
•ayiiig,morf*ovet-,tliou H<jn of Man. take
the one stick, and write upon it, for
Juilah an<l for (he children of (Mrael,
hiM companioni* : then take another
•tick and write upon it, for Jon^ph,
the iKtick of Ephiaim, and for all th«
houso of Nrael, Iuh companion^, and
join them one to another in one Htick,
l^nd they »haU become one iu thine

••ph. * * * Mid put th««n with
hiiii,"«>t(. • • • " Aiwl ik«atiVk«
wiMimii*! thou wH[C|A^«hall twiQ ihin«
InumI. liiAin UmIi^Ii^ mdmai !!••
h<»M I will («kr ihiT^drwn of iihitl
from aiiMHig tha lirath«*n, • . .• • •
and will gathar them tut every iid«
and Mng theai iiiiu their own land ;
an«t i will make tham <m«« nation i«
the land utiun tha muunuin«<if laraal,
and una king ahaJI be king ki them
all, and they shall ba no more two
nati«•M^ tieitlier ahall thry lia divided
Into Iwo king«lom« Miy mora al aH.**
Tti«iy are going to i<«Miie uigather Juel
prior to iTie lx>nl uoiivartbitf hi* pao.
pie It ie a lign tn tlia oatioae o|
the time when thay shall b« brought
togathar. In order for* God to bfTn«
tham ^MU)k he Must prepare the land
for them, f^iiiee 116) the early and
latter rains •'have fallen upon thai
laud, and the Jews are returning to
Jerusalem. Zeoh. 3: 1-8, "I Hftad
up mine eyea again and looked, end
behold a man with a measuring liaeia
his hand Then aaid I, whither goeM '
thou t And ha said unto me, to mea-
sure Jerusalem, to aae what ia the
breadth thereof, and what ia Ihe^
length thervoC * * * Md aooilkir

itn:%-' ■^'>'' ¥m

#^ p;

in a few well chosen

iMMnd his sincere t hanks

of the audtence' to Messrs.

,^ I Xwerton for the rare intel-

^ thnit enjoyed in listening to

t eir wry able presentations of what
^0kikL mteetaed to \w the truth.
r, / ? Th» *ttdiottce was dismissed about
Iflic^okbk p.m., apparently well pleased*
■ ^ diflcuMion. . ITiose who pre-

r. wrangle apd that no good
out of the* debate were
j ippoin^d as the disput -
the debate throughout
courtesy of manner and
•res expressed the opin-
good w6uld come out of
desire to have it put
V^s secure it in perraan-
to meet 'this desire
jn was printed,
fapti thasfc Mr. Cooper
iMiiilii liif* *«" m^^^Mt

' I

■/' r

I A--

l:i

.-&.-.:

^iiii^

h«Ui Mttl MM «nui Umm.

Ike Lord ahftil inh«flt Ju<l«h hia por
IIhi I« IIm buly Uiul, MMi tliAil oImmim
J^enM^«ai •uttia ftt liltAi^ O tA\
•mK. b^ur* iIm Umt , for II* U r«{«
•d ttp mil tif hia wh<*l« h*biuiiun.'
Wow to iiMde Mk titimai«nt fmcii mm
TMl ell lndir>«f«-« Ui«* |ir«>|Minilory
•erk of bH»|tag ih« ultil«Jr*^i ..f
IstmI hiMiM !••. ti J, "A 0.1 it »ltel)
eooM to pmm in th« lent timy that the
ttiniiiuin of th« Itini'c houM«h«n \m
eaUblt«h«Hl in tli« top of i)i« uHiun
leia% ead aliAll be exaltwl nbow the
HUla ; mnd all naiinnM •bnil (low unt<i
it*" eto., •to. I|«r« w« h»v« n f«th«r
iof too. Aitd th« Lord tbelT tnily
dMtroy th« io«n of th« fKyptiami.
Ood'a u«iu« will lUiid glontUxl
Unonc hi* p^ipU ^u the UtUr (i«y»,
eiMi the oiirMlM hi did for lareel will
U foripttm. I showed you in 0«n«
il« la«l nifht wb<> Kphraiin wni», and
•bo«i th« blcMing thai wa« to «jnine to
him Wliat i« naid about J)>««>pli
Smith with ragard to tliivf ll# layt
•a anfwl of (iorl did oo-iia tn him and
favn him a rnvfilatioii. If it waa not
;49fOniing to tha law of Uod il ia

hamllad thata with »H»r haful* Hign
•d by IliraiM Hmtlh, Hamual Haith
end ^1 othefe^

I am ^lyita wall awara that ha ia
rejaated, but Omi m no mora thaa
OMai waa He wee ri^tad by tli*
Jawa If twaUa wlinaMa* oama and
la«filied againat a man wooMn't it U
Kuttfiianl Ui bang him 1 TIimw an* nil
**oliar witnaitaaa. It wm Maid laat
night that (iii« or iiKWt «if ih*>mm ma
nm»m want back uti thair taattmony.
We ahetl Ma If that la the oeae In
th« Hra«i«n Jk Katly dwliatm. paga 178,
Mr. Marfiu Harri* naya " I want to
Qm oily nf New Y<^rlt tnd pnM«nt#d
tha ohara<^tnni whioh liad haan trana-
oribad with tli*> trniulatiim ih«>rM)f u,
Prcrf. Anthun, atid that g«<iiiUmau
■Utad ttie tmnaletiim wan oornai. I
than thowMl him tb«MM* that wara not
traimlatvd, and lir «aid that thay wara
E^yptiao. Chaldaio, Aaayriaaand Ara
bic, and that ihay wara trua charao
tera. Dr. .Mitdiall, iitat#« "Thia pa
per waa in favt a aingular aotoll. It
c<in«iKt«id of idl kimla of ortwkad
til|iiraot«r« dUpoofd in columnn ami
her] avidi*ntly Inhih prv|iam| by *omr
porMHi who ha<l Iwfora him at tha
time a book pontaining varioua alpha

pby.

htai

.' ' . ' ■•'. ■ ■"•■ •■ ■ ■ .■■'.■ ■ '■ "-■,:■ ■ ■;,• 'f,'

'.■'■■..-■■„■;' ■ "- ' ."."'.-'■■■'■■■ ""■■ ' ■■ ' ■ - ■ - ■*'

-1 •■ ^^ _^ ' ^ ■ " - ^^ . • . ^ " , ■ - •■ ' ■ "•'"

■aiiSi^

I::

J___

jnnn

-wm

-»-

i4 Hnith

that Im <•
iiom than
•d by ttiM

CMIM tklld

liiti't it U

•Mm Ikt^ nil

Mild lant

llit^Mt mil

I want to
prMMnUKJ
mn trufi*-

thrrMtf lo

i»rr»ot. I

w«r« not
th«jr w«r«
i«nd A ra-
ja ch«r»o
*• ThU pn
wpoll. It
«ruokcd
»Uin And
I hy wMlir

n »e th«

piljr, tKftft I; km A ««)nv«r«tttln« villi

M OMt f»| Ui«« thrwi viiiMMMNi u> (h«
Haoli Ol If MflWNI. * * • I
•t mnf Urn* {|«ni«it th«t uvtiir
••jr |»<wt ihcnMil whirh hi
tiiMM Immh iwMUImn) wtih
•mtmm iti lh« ihnw wilrMMMa | (|<i
•»<»• AfAin AAtrm ih« l«tK ol my
•UlMnant m ih«n RMMk mmJ uuh

i«lMd.

" II* that k«th Ml Mr to hilar. I«t
him h«i«r I do not indofM tt«iiyKi»nny

MtiifUMyr or
th^r tWm>||

ftM-kil

or •piHtit*! wifury. It In ftirhiddcn
in th« IVm.Ii t4 Mormon itMlf My
■tiu<«n* iliwini ia that thm «r|um«nt
may h« tiMilul lo th« world Th*
world liM tri.d in «»%«ry way to im
paach thi« tMiimony. Hani {■ a roan
aUnott drawing hia laat brt>ath who
racMwa hia tiiaiimuny that theae thinga
i%ra true. What objact hail thia man
in mailing tha«« taatiimtninii, rny op-
ponent aaid it «■• a mon«*vnialiing
•rhauir It ia not ao. Tham haa
bean nu uionay making in it. Thare
haa b««n no paid miniatry. I can
taalifv to tha tKulh of that faoU I
hava laburod fur thia beoauaa I knaw
U waa Ood'a oauaa. I hava hoan
ollar«Kl $800 by ona and $1,000 by an-
Olbar okartsk if t wooid go and praaak

Um Word of (Aod If tkte !• aM ite

Word ol (.itui, whar* la H to ha (b«ttMt
My up||o««nt taiti laai night that iIm
Rook mUmmom waa falaa on aaaovm
t>f tha Bgypiian langnaga^ f havo
toki you all about that. H« taya It
waa HpauUling'a mnrat Jf «kta tkiag
ba laiaa lat It go to tha |rtHind. In
tha Hrailan ami Kalty iMkat*, paga
ei. Huriburt aaya "I tiaiiad lira.
Matikla Hpmuldinm in 1894 and Mttr
•a* har •ftarwanfa. I than rai^vad
from har a manuacripi of bar haa
band's wkiek I dki not rand k««
brought horn* with ma and immw
iliat#ily gava it ui Mr E l». Ilowa, of
l*ainaa*illa, Ohia, who waa than Wi*
gaicad in Drapanag hia hook, " Mor*
mtmiam (rnvailair" Mr Howa ra-
aaivad it uodar tha cumlitiuoa on
which t took it fnim Mra. HpauUHof
(than Mra. Oavidaon), to oompara it
with tha Ifciok ol Mormon aod than
raturn ll to htt. I navar raoaivad
any othnr manuacript of Hp«ulding;'a
from Mra. Davidaim or aiiyona alaa.
(>f that manuacript I mada no othar
uaa than to giva It with all my othar
dooumaata oonnartad with Momioniam
to Mr. Mowa. I did not daatroy tha
manuaoripi nor diapoaa pf it lo Jim
HMttk nor any oMiar paraon. Mr.

rp»f:%.»-

***^ l«tat in mm .iM Uunk ImU ,4
MMaaiilpta til HtA n|MiuUitiig Mr%

imMtHm |rtt« f ».,.,«„,l», iiM liltl

m mhif inMae «M l«ni In I>h ,

*" ft'***!! jraam ul «m •|,i|« iti« m«ii
•mHpt mm «l AAMfM* ||« n«»«r

mf9 It WM un«l«nibi.Mt tliAt ha liul
In 1 1*30 kmr nioihar i,D,| n, {||^

hAwll«.i Um i«iin»iwH|H,- III IM4 H
••• fli»«ii i« llMrlhMrt Hy Iwr mutH«r .
Dm ||«h«4 <i4 AiortiMNi wm ptiblMhMl
.In liM ll b nirmitM thA( it »M
•»♦»* |Hikli«li#(| im1„rm ibM. T* Mbv
!• null furthar, I now ahull t«m jr^yr
•uantiim lo tW " MatiuMnpt F«imh«<

Mr lijftbm Mjrt; TH«rt wm m
BAii by th« n«in« «il |*«lUr»in fluHnf
mjr riHMkiaiio* mi I'ltuiburg »h<» h«cl •

CKiiaff o(IU«. WliAt might h«v«
n iMfura I livmt th«r« I know not.
Mr. R*»l»t Pfttt^nHin. I wm told,
owmH a printing oAmi iMfur* I liv««d
in lh*t eitjr. iMt hiul hma unfi>rtunAto
In tNi«in«w nml fAil«il. ^, If I w«r« ui
■Ay thM ! Kvnr hMMni of tttA K«?. Mol.
HiiMtl«liag »n<l hi* wif« until Dr. P.
lluriliurt wnitr> \m \m ftbuut. in««, t

•ImwM b» ft Ikr lik« uaio tli««Mlf ••.

•Imii i»irp» ^t/ ;<NI»»^

Hww w» Knvw l>4li»»<M it mio iW
HaiMtiiilllr Rirtvy. "rtii**ill^iiMl4.

I»lg» ••«• AHUHtg th<i tlMltlM«#r4|)l I

»MI*« H<i«< ii ^»rt> f0nt% l*«i iwvwr
•iamiIiimI tl uniil lAttfty f^ow h*
i«ll« iliAi it M r.miMi Mr Jtw ffiiti*h
wriiM, I «m grt»4tly oliligtiil u> jm«« fc»»
itM ififtiniMitfwi Almwt th* mAnu««Hpt
It i* ih* ifrnitlnti Ihi«|i til l|fMint<hnf.
Two thing* tkrm twrtAtn, it i« A gwuitinA
writing ol NiMkuMing aihI ii i* twtt th*
'•HginAl of tli# Htmk M Mormmi Wt
iM»*i»r llMlnl of uny «ti|i«r niiinii«..ri|)«
until thi* rAtn* to tight Thti/ maMI
lhAn wAfw MnillAr nAmM in iIima two

Kwili* ImjI it «r«. fotinH iflAT* WAfW

none TH«r w«nti«i ui h«jr ih« nMii<
UAoripi «> tiMMr t^ouhi pofw ap th«ir
f«lMhnnr| Mr. Itiflc mIH hA wottM
put it in OtMiriin OntlAgA for Mfn ktmp
Ing lU mutU An nnlirr ctipy u( (h«
inAnuMrtpt Ohariin i« n«Ar whtr* ll
WA« wHtt«n. tlwm »rw «)»« more
lAAtimonlM : A» fAgAnli tha nAtn«A
t hAVA hmrm th« two honkn aiwI if you
oAn rimi MiiailAr nAni«A I will Kirfait
#!^, And n«»w fur th« tAAiimoniAA
UlMll WAM gnnuimt. U waa mnt to
th* GiileffA And a ««rtirt«d oupy givAm 4
HataIa ih« «Artifl«AU. Oli«rU« Oot

-^•Is-

MA. coopirs rNiRO mnt

Wt OntiiitiA^ I.AiitftaA»iHlKirtvi

m0 mmi9ikth» I HMtlr l«*i itif hi «• lo
111* Htaili ••! MiiTNKin. anil «• |«t Hig
*km Imug III hiMlMirgwh^ii Nf^nMing

««• iWff* I .hall II, *,„! ,r,^i|||in,>.

«l«ir him lif A4|«iM ruttiblwi lhr«Mfli
lh«» IliM* Im mm*^ immt% nt lh« ill
till, urtftii .»« Um. IkMMi ,»r MimNm,

Mil h«>l«l|li IMMI# Wh«l |W» «|«(l^

li«il in. t^l rmnem 1.1 ih«i Hiii»lt itf Mitr
WMi wha|et«>r, aiM) I •unnut »■• •«
MnM u» waai|i)yin« %o
hl« |)r«t«fHi«ti argiiimni*. '

lo ^,mtm thm H<il«Knoii M|NiMUiing
•nA» lb« hi*i(»rl««l imrt y< ihr Ikiuh
«l Mormutt, Mid iImi || |« id*hti<>Al

with IIm '• IMHIIUBcrlpI fSuild, ' I KhAll

|»ri«lti«« Mvurftl of ill,. tiuMt rfHi|)«t;u
hfci Mid ootniMUitit wUn««wa who IivinI
hmii» Mr N|Miulding, Mid who liMid
him nmti liU iiuvnl and who w«ll r«
mwiuUr th« nainM in it, muI who
•uui •inph«tu)»lly that th« H|Mulding
rtbv.l Mid (hn R<Mik of Mormon arw
idnnlical wiih^ thi» ••nofpiion of fh«
chapur. Rtfiiti) rrttni th«« BIbIa and pul

^trmm «• iM«fi,M i« i,,^ ^^^

f»t|f».« r»«ia jMWMbMI (^ iMkI .Ml «^

•k»tf Mm*! I*. Ai»».»». Md ^.aaaar

*«<MH af l^f *«!•, «i»»»i|,n»»j ^'^ttfiaiaiB

!••• iai | pi M i>.,ii»>4 u till. ... h- .Zy

#••• mMm-tm^ •u>«MM M* All (»« ^
•»H*M^. •» iummhhm tM iltM mmmUf, ItmM
•1*1 i^fo ••»• I,, irtiM mpmaatS^ iJJTJ
t-a.hi.g .W*.!^,, jfh^ ,m. ft,„ ,,.,^
»..» .iM«ri«« IHati ifMii, *»a^, .M I.. «
m^m ikm Indgmmim •htmk ik«. •«,u|««^
•«»• MtmiMn it^m «b« .iM warM'" '

MaMI M ||oWAai> taaUllaa

" la MMi««tatt*iMi wiiH Hnl.MtHm Waaail
tug I •.|ir.«..t m) Hif|,fi» l||«i w. M »,

wiM •««. kai Ilia »fc) Imm, mmml», .u tU
JT *•• •*• •««»^ • iltMa«| III ilMI

Aarimia Oiif}iixiaia« lnUip.
Il«lrt«.u. ••iwaMiai ^MBTtbail to«a hte
k. tl« au4 ihat il waa • (ahubiaaav
_jaait« NiMarjr af iha itr.i MihahT
laalanf thMroaatry. «ntt u |Kir|M»ruNl ta
IM a rauartl li»ua<i buriml in (h« aArth nr te
a iia^r* lU ImmI ..Iu,,*..! h„ wwwa* «
•artiKarai uyU w( writtn« ti,| ij»,w ,J
fr.»in hi« m«i«uaa:ri|it. I rvuMmUr tlui aaaia
of N«,|,i wh.. ^itfmtmi to U th« urliurt|ii»|

«l th.|ihr«M ;1 N'.p|,i." I r,a,«nUiha
liB«Uy a. titwugh It war. fmtmnUf. Ha

AtUmptMil trt ««n<M4nt for th« nuin«r<i«iM«
tlqitUM whldh ar« hmnd atiaa tii* ^S

aaal." 'TT "" ^■■*

lOMIf N MlLUa, whA waa a mMlh«r
of poMMnon HfMiildiiigH houaahoJd for
Maajr montha, i«atia#t|

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S?' 1653 East Main Stf««t

BTA Rochester, Near Yortc 14609 USA

■.^S (716) «2 - 0300 - Phone

^S (716) 268 -5989 -Fox

I, Ohio.

10. §iM%J'

I 1 k«v*

ml (Uud

hia aUU

;ht, John
|Niraoua
«Mil, and
ciUiinank
th«iii all
uudoubt-
riiUn l>7
lud baard
If oallad
Tribaa."

I*! bosi-

t raa«l to
KM writ-
uiuaoript
> b«

itad^M a
laraadj
itod tiM

— i-j-mn __

gat tha book priiitid aiwi pay ma Bui I
oavar haani any inora fniiii h in or hia wrU
iutf*. till I aaw ihani in tha Ho<>k of Mor
mon. "

JoHW SFAri.inwn. brother of «..lo
inoii H^tuldiiig loHtiHea :

*'Tha 'Manuacrlpt Found' waa un htatori'
oal romanoa of tha flrtt aattlam of Aitiarlca,
andaavoring to ahow thut tha Amarloan
Indiaiuara daauandnd from ;ha Juwa, or
lo»t trlUa. It gave a dctnilad a<c«.unt of
thair jouniay Imtu Jeruaahm by laud and
••a. till they arrived in America, under
tha uonuiiand of Nephi and Labi. Tbay
aftarwarda had twotentiont und quarrtia,
and aa|)aratad into two diatincl nationa, tli«*
N«phit«a and tha Lamanitaa. Cruel and
bloody w«ra anauad, in which great multi
tttdaa war* alain. They buried thair dead
In graat haapa, which cauawl the mounda ao
uommon iu thia country. Thair arta,
aoianaaa and cirilttation wera brought into
view, in order to account for all tha curioua
antiuuitiea found in varioua purta of Siortit
and Soutli America. I have recently read
tha ilook of Mormon and to my great aur-
priaa I find naarly the aanio hiatarical mat
tar, namea, etc., an thuy were in my
bjrothar'a writingi. I well i-ememliar that
he wrot* ia (b« old sl^lo, and oomniangad

M aa w ould — ra., wawnw r

"F waa intimately a^qualatad with Solo-
mon .^Ipaulding, and often heard him r«Ml
what he called tha 'ManuaoHpt Found.' I»
waa a flcltiioiia novel of the people that
btiilt tiin iiMiunda. 1 ha<l thr Bonk of
Mormon In my houae for alwut aix month*
for thn pur|MMw of coniparinK *t with my ra-
oollectiiMiM of the 'Umt Manuacript Found,'
ami I uiiheaiutingly aay that a great par%
of the hiatoricat part of It, tho Book .»f .Mor*
mon ia identical with tha manuacript, and 1
fully Ixilieve tliat the manuacript la tlM
foundation of the whole concern. "

Mrm. McKiNtiTKY'H Ntat«u)«nt r«-
gitrdinK tho ' Mnnuioript Found, '
WaHhiiiKtoM, D. C. April .'»rd, I8«0.
Mrs. McKlnistry ia the child or
dftughter of Soloiuon &ip«u)dinM. Sbo
toitifleei

"My father rand the manuacript I hod
Ha4)ii him writing to tha neighbor* and to a
clerKvman a friend of hia who coma to
vUit him. Soma of tha uaniaa ha mention-
ed while reading to tha people I Uva never
forgoitim. They are a* freah in my memory
lut though I liad h«>ard thorn >Hit vonterday.
They are Mormon. Moroni, Uinoaite aod
Xe|ihi, eto» . . ' .

jTT*- *• f. *t, ■ a:

;:.*<

■■"•■■:W;'

'-'•«■•<•-■ ^iN"»'i'

tHE OOOPES-LEVERTON DlSBATSl.

Uteaning of the name Mormon whioh
i»r " bugbear," "hobgoblin," etc. It
purports to be a history ot America
from the time of ,the Tower of Babel
until about 400 A. D,, nearly 40)00
yean. - It asserts that tliis continent
^as peopled by three different fttini-
lies. 1. The<'family of Jarid who pm-
igrated from thci Tower of Babel over
three thousand years before Christ
add whose descendants were extermin-
ated, one portion of the book declares
■iz hundred years before Qhristy but
Another portion places the date at two
hundred and fifty years before Christ

2. The family of Lehi, a, Munasseh-
ite, who ismigrated 600 yeai-s before
Ohriat, early in the reign of Zedekiah,
King of Judah. His descendants di-
vidcMcl into two nations, the Nephkes,
the righteous portion j and the Lam
•nites,.the Wicked portion.

3, The family of Zarahemla who*
were 'Jiidahites or Jews \ylio lef t . Jor-
ttsalem about eleven years after 1 ehi
The descendants of the Jews were de-
»trbyed''in War or were absorbed J)%
the NephiteS". In a war the Nephites
were exterminated by the Lamenites

, about 384 A. D. The LiuiKMi'ltes
remained the sole possessors of the
Oontsn^it of America and \)ecause of
theii; sins became dark skioii'^d. They
are the American Indians accoidijiii; to
this account. ;

/ Now we have tlio Jjook <»f4Won"uou
and its historical portion is identical
with the '^Manuscript Found" written
by Mr. Spaulding. The balance of the
book, that is the religious portion, was
stolen by Rigdon,and Smith from the
Bible as follows: One-eighteenth is
stolen by . chapters, one twelfth is
stolen by paragraphs, oii('-ei<;hth is
stolen by phrases and the whole of the
religious ideas nio stolen except '•soiiie
of Rigdon's sermons. We have now

blunders, the witnesses to its authen*
ticity and before closing 1 shall pro-
ducp many witnesses to, prove that I
am correct^ in uJlmy stateinentsV

{Time expired,

MR. LEVERTON'S SECOND SPEECH.

Mr. ( HAinMAN, Ladies AND Grntle-
MEN,— As my friend has introduced a
Greek #brd I shall call upon my mod-
erator to explain it. (Mr, Coopejr ob'
jected and was sustained by the chair.)
'I'^efy liim to tind the word Mormon
in a Greek lexrcon. He can . find
Mor'no and it means just what he says.
He has told you something that is
cert'aihly out of existence so far as the
word is concerned. I am sorry my
opponent has wasted so nmch time.
Until tliis came to light we never
heard of SoIoHjoii Spauldiuu. writinjr
uvjit' than ojie loinance. 1 am ffoins
to r(iad something from apersonwho has
nothing to do with the work. L. L.
Rice writiii!,' friHn Hono'ulu in 1885^
says: Tiic S|>;u]lcling manuscript
came into Hiy pi'i ■^session in this wise.
In I8;il»40 i!|y i-.u-tnet and I bousfht
the oiUcc (jf t!i(« J'i^esville Telegraph.
The transft'r of types, etc., was
accompanied by a -tjuantity of manu-
scrij)!, the Spaulding manuscript
among the rest, have had it 40 years,
but never examined .it until six or
eight monlhs since. The only wonder
is that I did not destrov it loiic ajio.
Many have applied for it each one
seeming lo tliink they had som^e claim
to it, but I would not selb it." Une

given you an account of the Book of
Mormon. In my next speech I shall
examine ^som'e of its absurdities and

man wanted it sent to him because he
*\\as getting up another book of Mor-
mon. This manuscript is ijot the story

> .*---^.

■V.

■./■■^.

THE eOOPBR-LEVERtON iJEBAtB.

of the ancient inhabitants but it is a
hist'-ry of the vvars aiitl t is ijot the
original (>f the .Moi luon Dil/U-. As to

. thi« I cannot see tliiii it isof any use
except to. the Muimont* tio pi-oVo that
it is not the oiiginai of the liook of
Mormon. This man had no connec-
tion with the iMormous. He found

- this in his oUl papers, wiien he bought
the pynting office from Mr. Howe.
The manuscript was in Mr, Sabine's
care from 1816 to 1820. Joseph
Smith was boririn 1805 so he could
only have been 11-15 years old, while
it was at Sabine's. He never worked
there Miss Dickinson says it was
understood that he did. Mrs. Mc-
Kinstry,' Sol. Spauldihg's daughter,
says that in 1820 her mother had the
ipanuscript and she haci handled it.
In 1834 it was given to Hurlburt by
her mother. Bat the Book of Moiv
raon was published in 1 830. HujI-
burt gave it to a publisher to expose
Mormonism. This inan was but off
from the church and bought this book

"arid had it printed for revenge.; Then
Mr. Rice bought the printing office
and "after twenty years found the
manuscript. My opponent has read

, that Solomon Spaulding -was a scholar
but on evei-y page of the Book of
Mormon we find grammatical oirors.
If this is written by -him it is a dis-
grace. ioY a Chri.st.ian minister to write
.80. In the Spaul^ding iupvel there was
ap^^fyiibUs story and we refute that.
He adiiiits that the argument of
NiQrtha<>d South America may have
Bomethihg to do with it. I am glad
he does. Who told David that
" Truth shtjl 1 sprin* up out of the
earth." Again, Isa. 29: 19, "The
meek also increase their joy in the
Lord, a,nd the poor among men shall
rejoice in the Holy One of Lsrael:

Latier Day Saints do hot say people
were not erijoying a portion of God's
spirit. But those that are honest and
sincere and living accordiug to their

light are all right no matter where
th<;y are. 1 am astonished that my
frifiifl takes character to mean any-
thing. In the Bil)le we find the very
worst of characters. The first five
books were written by a man who
killed a man and then hid him in the
sand. The wrkor of the Pdalms w»s
a murderer and adulterer. Solomon
had a thou.sand wives and Peter him-
.feelf .swore and denied Christ. Why
doesnit he repute my' arguments t
What about the founder of his own
church? 1 find, in ifale's History of
the United States: "In 1^36 John
: Wesley, a celebrated Methodist made
a visit to Georgia for the purpose of
preaching to the Colonists, and con-
verting the Indians. Among the
formei* he made soitjc proselytes, but
more enemies. . He was accused of
div«rtiug the people from labor, of
fomenting (livisions, of claiming and
exercising high and unwarranted
ecclesiastic:il authority. His conduct
tT»Sy||pW <»riP , ot the principal set-
'tl<^: .'was hfghly resented by her
friends. Thirteen indictments for al-
leged oflfences were found against hinit
but before the time of trial he retttrn-
ed to England. So, John Wesley
running from his trials, looked like
being guilty. But Joseph Smith stood
his trial like a man and was honorably
acquitted, every time. The Jews said
Christ WPS an impostor. If I had
come before you and's^d 1 was a pro-
fessor of Greek andLLafan, I might
have had some chjui^e here, but if a:
man comes sti'ai|(nt and honest and
says what he is arid ianother takes ad-
vantage of him what shall we call
that? When the Children of Israel
were driven from th^ir land.Ou account
of transgression they became a hiss
and a by-word " Th'en Jacob's face

.»;tl

■m

waxed pale. Not long ago the
Jews were not allowed any position in
Ensrland, but now a Jew has been at
the head of affairs in. England and I

t'-.* ■

TW^ COOPBtl iJJVERtON DEBATE

thank God that he was. They that
niunnui' shall lorwu doctiiii.;. . TIk-
l»inl of PaJestine .is making piogicss
in civilization and the signs ot tho
times are that the people will soon
, return there. I don't give the credjt
to Joe Smith, but to God, for it was
God who gave him the revelay^n. I
m\s a Methodist |(>cal preachei- 'an<l I
have heard theur say Wi How is it that
th(j spirit of God is not .en joyed as it
was in years gone I <y? They were
sad that these Were not for theni now.
The spirit of God is not'chaliged. He
is the same to all people and in every
nation.* He that feareth God and
seeketh righteousness shall be saved.
"Then,- they that muamui' shall learn
doctrine." Yes, the days are coiiie
when the jpeople jshall say, lo .here
and lo there and many people shall
follow them Well; then, w hen. Clw
truth comes they tluit murmur sliall
receive doctrine. Then the reason
that they will learn doctrine is tliat
God will establislt his word upon tile
«arth and truth sl^U spring out If
the ground. Ez. 37;"! 5, "The Word"
of the L()rd came again unto me, say-
ing, take the one stick," etc. llereAve
have the prophet telling us that one
stick is to be. written on for J udtrf^
that is the Bible, and another for the
house of Joseph and his companions.
Where can you find that? They are
,to come together and be joined to-
gether.

expired.

: .x'-

MR. COOPER'S SECOtID REPLY.

Mr. OHAiRiH\N, Ladies and Oenttle*
MBS, -—If I admit all my opponent has
said in quoting the prophet, that the
wings refer to the two .Xinerfca's oiitl:

> to the wings of tjie ' niefrican ejigle
i\ does not prove anything, whatevei'
infeivor of his proposition. It has no
reference to Joe ■'•mith or tluj Kook^of
.Mormbn, It does not prove that the
Book of vMormon is of divine origin or
of equal authority witli the Bible. In-
."jtead of w Jig ting time Mitl\ his pre-
tended arguUient I shall rehume my
account of the I^ook of Mormon.

First, let us n<)t.ice the account of
the plates pretended to be found
They tell us they were gold, pure gold,
and that they looked like brass. Joe
says they were fastened with three
rings, David Whitmer says they were
, soldered together. Emn)a (^mith says
they were loose on her kitchen^ table,
neilher fastened nor soldered, co^^red
with :i cholj. Joe's mother says tliey
wete lyjjttfe i^ hollow 4ree, in a boW
» coej^PKp,. fn tJie woods, in a hole
in the^'^WJUnd, in a vaUlfc, etc. Also,
:that.*Joe had them all the time } then
he did not have, them. Three .saw
them by a miracle f the eight saw
them and hefted tbem^withoUt a mira-
cle Emma saw them under a cloth.
Whitniei saw them in Tiis'^ather's
field. Thtv angel, Moroni, gave old
Granny Whitmer a s(juint at them.
If any t)ne wanted to see them the
a»xgel had them, or
l<)^fc at them. The
mim w'ere.^ pointed
glass plates, that they were a pair of
silver ;spectacle.s>^hink 'of glass and
specs at the time of-B^bel ? Harris
says they were two cloudy^ones so
large that a man could loofctticough
them with both eyes. Now all this
a fable. They had no Urim arid
Thummim. Joe had the Peekstone he
stole from the children of Mr. Chase,
and with which he pretended to trace
stolen property and to find hidden

it meant death io
Urim and Thum-
diamonds set in

treasures in the earth.

Notice the size of the plates. They
were sevea inches wide and eight
inches long, and the thickneM of ooou

THE COOPfiR-LBVERTOK DEBATE.

mQU tin Now idfi BiHik of Vloiraou
contttiuH 545 pages, iu sinull typn,'
which would retjuire .'iOUO piVjCfca ot
written laattor oil t'oolsciip; One hide
of a plate trAnsluted would occupy one
large page of written inattei' on fools-
cap. Ihis would requiV»TOOU plates,
which, if of gold as they assert, would
weigh 750 pounds, if of brass, 250
pounds. These platesy of gold, would
ho worth $75,000. Jo6 Smith carried
all these plates, 750 pounds. A large
sword, a heavy breicwit plate, a com-
pass, hid away '<In his ftack while he
fought two men and ran two mileS.
Is this not a most absurd tlurit; and
impossible. Who can believe it'

Is it likely that G d'Vyould cttoose
such a mQ,|i,*^s Joe BmitFi to re-esMib
li^h His church on earth? My fricq
and the elders of his church take Joe
Smith ai» th>ir chief witn4ss to estab-
lish the -divine pri^io of the Book of
Mormon. We must therefore examine
his character and see if he is a compe-
tent ¥?4tl^e8S. Were their claims not
86 larg^ and were\ it not for the fact
thaVhe is. called as their chief witness
we shbqld not take the trouble| to in-
qttire^infeo his l\ie. As a private indi-
vidual i^ inatteirs not to me, ;|)ut as
the chief witness to" the divine Ijorigin
of the Book of Mormon, it is of j great
moment. You will understandj some-
thing of his character by reamhg an
accdiuxt of the proceedings 6i the
. Court held in the town of Bainbrid^e,
Chenango Go / N, Y." People of
State of New York ys; ^Joseph SmitX.
Warrant issued upon oath of Peter O;
Bridgraan, who informed that one Jo-
seph Smith, of Bainbridge, was a
:^di8Qrderly person and an impostoi*.
, Prisoner brought into Court March
20th, 1826. Arad Stowell sworn—
Sa.y8 thafe^Jie vrent to see whether

proposed looking though another
stone which wjis white, and transpa-
U-ent; hold, the atone to the candle,
turn his back to l)Ook, an'Q read. The
deception appeared-so palpable, that I
went o£P disgusted.

Mc^J aster, sworn— Says he went
witU Arad Stowel \o be convinced of
prisoner's skill,' and likewise came
away disgusted, finding the decej^tion
so palpable.

• ^ And thereupon th^' Court finds the
defendant (./oe Smith) guilty."

In the spring of 1837, Joe Sjnith
started what was called the " VSti\fi.i
Gat" bank in Kirtland. Joe got the
money of hundreds of the poor dupes
and for a while lived like a prince, out
in November of the same year the
Wild Cat bank broke and Joe Smith
and Rigdon were fined $1000 each foV
^swindling the people pat of their
nft)uey.

Kev. N: C. Lewis, of the M. E.-
church, of Susquehannah Co., Penn.,'
in 1834, made a sworn statement to
the effect that he hiad. been acquainted
with Joseph Smith, jr., for some time;
being a relative of his wife's, and re-
siding near him, had frequent oppor-
tunities of conversation with him. He
is not a man of veracity, and his gen-
eral character in this part of the
country is that of an impo$tor hypor
crite and liar. ,

Eleven male residents of Manches-
ter, Ontario Co., N.Y., Nov. 3rd and
4th, t833y made an afiidayit ^hat the
family of Joseph Smith, witn\whom
the Gold Bible originated, are a
\indolent, intemperate set, and
\^iu'd is not to he depended on. .
|n the same year, on the same day,
T in tjie same vicinity, fifty-one other
men of standing state : We, the uu-
dersigitied, have been acquainted with

*-»•

""tl

prisoner could convince him that lie
possessed the skin that he . professed
to have, upon which prisoner laid a
book open upon ^ white cloth, and

the Smith family for a number of
years, wbile fhey resided near this
place^ and have no hesitation in say-^
ing th»t we (^niider ttiem dtstitute

-»'» *:■•::• Xi ■

X-

■.■■"'- / - ■ ■ , - - •

>CHE COOPER LEVERTON DEliATt.

of that moinl cliftnwter nirhich ought
tA) entitle them to the confi(l6i|ce of
any community. Josepli Hniith, hi-.,
And hw son, Joseph, in particularV
were considered entirely destitute of
moral character, and addicted to
vicious habits. Here we have sixty-
three of the best and most competent
witnemes, under oath, stating that
Joe Smith was an impostor, a hypo-
crite, a liar, not to be depended upon,
destitute of moral character and afl-
dicted to vicious habits.

Again, Joe Smith was the author
of , a revelation on the patriarchal
order of marriage, or plurality of
■"vives, given, he claims, in NaMvoo,
July 11th, 1843. In this revelation Joe
Smith teaches polygamy, as plainly as-
it can be taught. There is no mis
take, the language is unmistakable
and the document ca,lled Celei^tial
Marriage is by Joe Smith. He was
not only the author of that foul blot
on the name of Christianity, but he
was in practice a polygamist, as the
following affidavit will abundantly
prove,

San Bernardino, Oalifornia

Dec. 31; 1883.

told me she had Ijeen .sealed to Joseph
for oternity and to Higher 0. Kimball
for time, and Bio. H«ber was acting
as proxy for liro. Joseph. Dianthy
Farr, daughter of Aaron Farr, told
me 8h« was sealed in the same way,
and Wm. Qlay ton was acting as pipxy
for Bro. Joseph with her. The first I
ever heard of the proxy and sealing
business was in 1846. Bathsheba
Smith, wife of George A,, tqld me of
i^hen. - ,

Mar|^al>ii^
•' Sworti to before me, tRw STst da>-

J. Curtis,
San Bern-

of t)ecember, j 883. W,
Notary Public in and for
ardino Oo. Californiu."

T thus impeach Joe Smith as a wit
ness. His character is bad. Yet he
is the chief witness that my friend
has to produce to prove that the Boqk
of Mormon is of equal authority with
the Bible,

Now let us turn to the three wit
nesfies, Martin Harris, Oliver Cow-
dery and David Whitfflej>/ Next to
Joe, these are the principal witnesses
relied upon to prove my friend's pro-
position. Let us examine them.

If the book of Doctrines and Gove

,, ,, , , i . Jji , , ** """ """«^ "* i-'uunines ana uove-

Mary Ralph, Ijeing ' duly ^ na^its be true, then before these wit-

BwOPhy^eposes and jsays : I lived in
Nauvoo^*^^ close to, the house of Jo.s.
Smith, jtfstltei^sthe road,„ some time.
I also was preseiHsat a public meet-
ing, and heard theS^phet Joseph
Smith say while preacBhsg' Here is
Bro. Brigham ; if ever hel^s this
church, he will lead it to hellTSfcnd I
believed he was a true prophet
<jtod, I was well acquainted with the
two Partridge girls and the two
Walker girls, and their t wd brothers,
William aud Lorin Walker, they were
orphans, and lived in the family of

nesses even pretend' d to see these
plates, Joe Smith, in a pretended re-
velation, presented the plates with the
revelation telling them first what to
say. In March 1829, Joe Smith gave
. Harris a pretended revelatiori inf,%hich
the identical words .of ,the testimony
of the witnesses occurs. In that re-
velation Harris is told to say that he
jd seen the plates when be had not,
T^'^^^ement of the three witnesses
to theNaQok of Mormon is a joint
statement, witjhout date. It has every
mark of fr a udNu>d collu s ion. Th e

Joseph Smith, J,ut I neter knew they witnesses are not iiiai«iendent but in

were any ^ them his wives; but I terested witnesses K^i sold his

saw Susie Walker in, 1847, and she farm to get the book printeHa

had a young baby in her arms ; she pectwi to make money out of

, • ; »

THE OOOPER-LEVERTON DEBATE.

•> (

> Joseph
IvimbaU
I noting •
Oiaathy
rr, tola
le way,
1.8 piQxy
e first I

sealing
bhaheba

me of

iTst dai^'
Curtig, Ni
n Bern-

bS a wit

Yet he

friend

36 Boqk

ty with

ee wit
r Cow-
'f ext to

itnessBR
d's pro-
1.

i Oove-
3se wit-

these
ded re-
'ith the
»hat to ..
ih gave
i,%^hich
timony
hat re-
>ha>t he
ad not.
tncsses
a joint
8 every

The

book. Oowdery had spent much time
on tho book. The witneuseH nr« ull
interested parties. We will now ex-
amine t)ie character of the witriesseR.
OIiv«r Cowdeiy comoH first. David
Stafford testifies that " Gowdery prov-
ed himself to b0 a worthless fellow,
not to be trusted ^^r bielieved when lie
taught school in the neighborhood."
Banford Booth suys: " H«' was a Inw
pettifogger, a cats-paw of tl>e Smith's
to do their dirty work. .Joe Smith
could not trust him himself. In a
pretended revelfition, Joo Hay.«f in N<'V.
1831 :" Hearken unto mo saith the
Lord your God for my servant Oliver
Oowdery's sake. It is not wi.sdom that
,,he be entrusted with "the montjys
wtiifh he shall carry into the land yf
Zion unless some one sha'l go' with
him who'shall be true and faithful."
Hiram Smith charges Cowdery with
robbing his father, plundering his own
house and forging a noteugainst him-
self. He says : '* Persorts^ame to my
house while T was in prisoni'-aiMl ran-
s^ked it and carried away nioii^ jind
my valuable.s. jKinonif tlioM' wTl>»
treated me thus 1 cannot help making
particular mention of Lyman ('ow-
dery, who, in connection vvith his
brother, Oliver Cowdery, took from
me a great many things, and to cap
the Clihiax of his ini(juity, eoinpell-
ed my aged father, liy threateninji; to
bring a mob upon him to deed over to
him or his brother Oliver, aliout 160
acres of land, to pay a note which he
said I had given to Oliv&r for !?1(».'V,
Such note I confess I was and am en-
tirely ignorant of, and after mature
consideration I have to say that I be-
lieve it to be a forgery " (Times and
Seasons, vol 1, pp. 223 ) .Toe Snutji
says Cowdery wa.'i cut j^' fiem the
church for slander iindlllulKe state-

studiously engaged in circulating
Talse and slanderous reports against
the Saints to. stir up our enemies to
driv<« us from our honies ant 1 enjoy the
spoils. Tlwy are as follows : Oliver
Cowdery, bavid VVhitmer, etc. (Timw
and Seasons, vol. 1, p. 80.)

In a circular letter addressed to
Cowdery, I'tavid Whitman, and others;,
signed by Sidney Higdon and 84 other
leading Mtirmons. A circular that was
authenticated in a report of a commit-
tee of the United States Senate anc^
pu-bliMJied in the report by authority'
of the U. S. Government, constituting
Congressional Document 180, A. D.
1841, Oliver Cowdery is charged with
stealing, lying, perjury, counterfeiting,
and that he wasleaderof agang of scoun-
drel.s of the blackest dye. He abandon*
ed Mormonism and openly declared his ,
testimony to the Book of Mormon, a
lie. He died an apostate, a drunken
so^ and a l)eastly wreck. Now you
have the character of Cowdery, Is
he a competent witness that the Book
of .Vlornum is of divine origin?' I
think not.

Xow hit us examine David Whit-
merXs character. Whitmer iir inolud^l
in the Cong. Document 189, A. D ,
1841, .against Cowdery, which charged
Whitmer with being a. member of a
gang of thi«?ves, counterfeiters and
blacklegs of the deepest dye and I
have already showed you that Joe
Smith ( in Times and Seasons, vol. : 1 ,
p. 80), says that Whitmer was one
wh(^» slandered the Saints and made
false statements and was at one time
plotting to rob the Saints.

/ Tn Tinies and Seasons, p. 83, Joe
H^mith 8ays; Poor Phelps, has no
other dumb beast ^o rid<*^ but Diivid .
Whitmer, or to forbid*** his madness
when he goes to curse Israel . But

.'■"': I

:'-n

m e nts. — His words aio : " About this — this ass (not being of the

same kind
as Balaam's), therefore notwitlistand,
ing the angel appeared unto him-
♦___*. .4 Yet he brays out cursipgs,

time there were several persons living
in the far west who were cut oft' from
the church, These characters were

.$ J

THE OOOPER-LBVERTON DEBATE.

••V

insteAd of bleHsingo. Poor aua, who lives
to tee him will seo him and his rider
perish like those who iMsrishcd in the
gainsaying of Noah? Whituiw fre-

auently declared iiv Hichraorul, Mo.,
J»t his testimony to the Book of
Mormon was a, lie. To show you how
easily Davids Whitmer was duped A
wooden im«ge was by Smith, placed in
a tree in a fiehd. Whitmer's son sttw
it and said he saw an angel. Then
said Smith, > This is the place, where
the fiook of Mormon must Imj com-
pleted since the angel has appeared
eleven times and it is revt^aled to me
that the place of hi» twelfth appear-
ing is where the Ixiok must be com-
pleted. Hence Whitmer's, in West
Fayette, became the resort of Smith
and his fallow impostors during the
progress of the work. David Whit-
mer tells how ht was convinced of the
tfruth of Mormonism." He went into
the woods after some maple sap, and
having filled two large pails he set out
to return homa The sap became so
heavy he stopped, kiielt and prayed
that if Joe Smith was a true phiopJiet
and the plates a genuine revelation
from God tha*^, the sap might he made
lighter as a token thereof. He arose,
tool? up the sup, and as it felt lighter
than when he set it down he was con-
yinced of the trutho£ Mormonism.
He was dupodUj^fieve also that an
angel plowej^w-^even acres ol^' land for
him in jM^ night, and that jitl| angel
sowpd eleven acres of plaster for him
.to enable him' to go to Pen n. to move
Joe, (See l.ucy Smith's Hi&t. pp.
144-5.) This is one of my friend's
witnesses. Who can have any confi-
dence in such a vyitness?

We now turn to Martin Harris,
He Was a man easily excited, and he
tdld many vonderf ul stories. He said

hair like n mouse. Harris repeatedly
declared that he hail as much evi-
derioe for a Shaker Iniok which he had
as f()r the HoOk of Mormon. He told
Mbrley, Maj. (Jilbert. Mti«._Markell,
Mrs, Millikin Mr. Hansbury, and
many others, that he did not see tlio
plates with his natural sight. He
only saw them by faith. He told
Mrs. Hansbury • hat he only saw the box
they >yerr in; and heard them rattle.
Joe denounces him, (Elder's Journal,
p.. 49, itug., 1838,) as so far lienMth
conlempt that a notice of him would
be too great a sacrifice for a gentle-
man to make. The church exerted
some kind of restraint on him, but
now he has given loose to all kinds of
abominationsi lying, cheating, swIndK
ing, all kinds of debauchery. Harris,
as a witnesR, interested in the book
financial^, and who said to his wife,
" If the whole affair is a fria,ud I exr
pect to make money out of it," cannot
be accepted.

The eight witnes8e.s say they saw
the plates, that on them were charac-
ters of curious workmanship. How
did they know that Joe had translat-
ed those plates 1 How did they know
that an angel gave them toJ'oe? How
did they know that the Book of Mor-
mon was a translation oiF the plates?
They could know that they saw plates
but they could not know anything
more. The witnesses ai*e all a gang
of .loe Smith's followirs. Of the
eight witnesses thei-e are four of the
Whitraers, threje Smith's and Hy.
Page, a brother-in-law of the Whit-
mers. So_thatof the ijtrelve witnesses
we have : Joe the author of the fraud,
his father, a drunkard and liar, Hi-
ram Sm'ith, Joe's brother, and for a
while a leader of Mormonism, S. H;
Smith, another brother, David Whit-

that the U. S. wcmld li e destroyed if mer, C. Whitmer, Jacob. VV hitmer,

they did not accept , Mormonism in
four years. Harris says he saw the
devil, and that be was a jackass with

Peter Whitmer and Jdfhn Whitmer,
five in all, and a brother-in-law of the
Whitmer's, Henry Page, Or CSfF

■ ■ ■"-•■■ , . • *■.•,•

THE OOOPCRLRVEimm DKBATfe

«k ■ ■ .

(Wy «rid Mr. HmtHn, •low gmig
of villainouK follnwAi^ <Tf Jon 8nitli.
TI»e«P »te tliP witii«i<h»'h tlint nur frimid
inti'odu«:(^N to piVtvo tho diviim
origin of tin- l)«tok of Monuon,
wliowi HnrrMh it|>p«al' in th« liook
an wiineHHe*. I nulmiit that if muoIi
a crowd of witn«MHe8 Htoppeci upon the
Htand to-day thiy would bfe rejected
in any Court of Justice in Canada or
the United 'States. Of the three wit:
nefses, all a^staiixed^ of the eight,
five aposCatized. Ti^ is sufficient to
prove that their testimony was a base

hand. And when the children (»f thy
people of Hhall speak unto thee
Haying, wil'i thou not show ut
what thou nifuncMi by tlicse ? Hay
unto them, Thus naith the U>rd <Jod {
llfihold, I will take the stick of Jo^
Mouh, which is in the hand of Eph*
raiiu, * * * and will put thein
with him, * « « and make th**!!!
one stick, and they shall be one in mine
hand, etc." So far in thia chapter we
got last night. One stick waa writ-
ten upon for the house of Judah and
another to be written is to be written

fabrication, that they abandoned it for Ephraim. It is not strange that

when it ceased to be profitable to them
Time expired

MR. LEVERTON'S THIRD SPEECH.

the children of men will be in won*
derment about it. Then the prophet
will sav, "Thus saith the Loixl Ood-tit^
Behold T will take the stick of Jo>
seph, * * * and put them with .
him," etc. * ♦ * •' And the sticks
wheroon thou writest shall bejin thine ;

handfemifrtix their eye*, and s%y ; iJe-
•lcr^941l ^ake the children of ^si'ael

Mr. Ohaihman, LAl>h(«i an u Ukntlb-
MBN,^— When time waa called last
night I was justentering Kzek. 37: i5,
but in order to give you an i<lea o^
what has Ween Haid I will again draw
Hos. 8

hole ^ .

from among the heathen, **^ f * ♦
and will gather them on every side
and bring tliem itfto their own land ;
and I will make the^n one nation in
the land upon the mountains of Israel,
and one king shall be king to them
all, and they shall be no more two

..cil

your attjention to Hoa. 8: 11, 12. , ,.,^^. .. ^ «« „«„^ vw«

*' Because Ephraim hath niade many nations, neither shall they lie divided
altfirs to sin, altuis shall l>e unto him into two kingdoms any more at all."

to nil). T have written to" him the
great thingK of my law, etc," Here
we discover that God has written his
laws to Ephraim* and the Bible is the
law of Ood to Judith. We have not
here in the Bible any tkw of ,Ood to
Bpbriiim. Exek. 37: 15, says: "the
word of the Lord came again unto n^e
•aying,mori«ov^.thou Son of Man, take
the one stick, ^nd write upon it, for
Judah and for the children of iaraeV
hia companions : then take anotlier

They are going to come together juit
prior to the Lord converting hit peo>
pie It i> a sign to the nation of
the time when they shall be brought
together. In order for God to hnag
them back he must prepare the l^a
for them. >SihM 1862 the eftrly mu|
Istifr riu^thftve iallen upon thai
land, and the Jf we are retnming to
Jernsalein. Zech> 2: 1.3, •• I lifted
upihine eyes igainiuid Rooked, end
behold a man with a measuring line ii(

stick a nd write upon it, for Jos e ph, his hand — Then s aid t, w hither g cw it

the stick of Ephriiini, ttnd for all the
house of Israel, his compamonn, and
join them one to another in one stick,
i^nd they shall become one in thine

thou ? And he said unto me, tolne«r
sure Jerusidem, to see what it the
breadth therei^, and what ia the
length tber«o( • * * utidwioilMr

^^ ^y.^^'-v :. mmi(':m^ *^^^;c;^,ir

XJf%

■^

'"■'/^

'.r

THE OpOPKR-LKVERTON DKBATK.

»l w«Bt out to tn««t hittfi and umU\
' * • Jfiruiwletu itliiill lie itihabit
•d M town* without walli for th^mvl-
titudft of men and mttln thflreiii."

woi'thlmn. Tf w« did not find in tb«
raunnl then tb«t (Jod would remeiulMr
HU poople, how ii it that theM paa
•ftjjeH are here. How in it thot thw

Hera we have the sUteraeat luada by .ignomnt Im.v fultilled the prophecy of

ttie prophet that when Ood would the Lord. There are other witneuea

eommenoe to think alwut gatherinff in tluH oa«4>. Here ifl a testimony

them homfc th« angel should come and signed by three witneases. " We

■P?*^**>» 70»ng*«»'V«»y>ng, "Jeru- have a^n the p at*« and we declare

Mlem Shan be lohamted as towns and testify that the Ood of heaven

with6at walls."'*^ Has this everoome came down and gave these plates to

to pa#s f The p^paratory work is for Joe. Smith " Signed, Oliver Oowdery.

the angel to ran and speak to the David' Whitmer, Robert Harrii.

voung man, Y. 5, "For I, saith the These men did Mxj,tbe fJates. They

Ijord, will be a wall of are found were commanded "by 0(1?% give tes-

Aboat, and will be the glory in the timony, and they did. Anol^er testi-

midit of her, eto." v. U, "And many mony signed b*- eight witnesws.

BMlOM shall be joined to the Lord in "Joseph Smith has shown us the

?Si?y ■S*','***^*^»'*'yP**P'®' •■^** P**^' They looked like gold. We

XwUl dwell in the midst of thee and handled them with our hands. 8ign-

tb«i Shalt know that the Lord of ed by Hiram Smith, Samuel Smith

MMtehath sent me unto thee. And and six others.

Ihe Lord shall inherit Judah bis por- I am <|uite well aware that he is

won in lh« holy land, and.sh»ll choose rejected, but that is no more than

JMvsa^ again Be silent, all Christ was. He was rejected by the

flMb, before the Lord ; for He is rais- Jews. If t wel ve witnesses came and

Id up out. of his whole habitation."^ te^itied against a man wouldn't it be
jNNow It needs no comment from me ^ bufflcient to hang him ? These are all

This all indioatps the ,. preparatory sober witneHses. It was said last

work of bringing the children (.f night that one or most of these wit-

Israel home. Tsar 2: 2, "And it shall
oome to pass in the last days thaj^^the
mountain of the Lord's houseshali be
established in the top of the moun-
tains, and shall be exalted above the
hills; and all nations shall flow unto
It," eto., eto. Here we have a gather-
ing too. And the Lord shall trnly
destroy the town of the Fgyptians.
Ood's name will stand glorified

nesses went back on their testimony.
We shall see if that is the case In
the Braden «& Kelly debutes, page lt8,
Mr. Martin Hiuris says : " I went to
the city of New York and presented
the character's which had been trans-
cribed with the translation thereof to
Prof. Anthui), and that gentleman
stated the translation wan cornet. I
then showed him those that were not

among his people in the lattei' days, translated, and he said that they were
•ndihe miri«les he did for Israel will Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyrian and Ara-
be foigotte©. I showed you in Gene- bic, and that they were trqe charao-
•U last night who Rphraim was, and ters. Dr. Mitchell, states: "This pa-
Aboat t^bleesing that was to c-ome to per was in fact a .singular scroll. It
h i m Wh a t i s s a id a bout J . xj e ph — consistod of .ill kinils of crooked

Smith with regard to thist He says

an angel of Ood did oonie to him and

jgavehim a revelation. If it wa&not

^jl^^rding to the law of Opd \% is

cljuraoters disponed in columns and
had evidently l)een prepared by some
person who had before him at the
^e a book ^OQtaiping various alul^a-

.■■.♦■*

Ind In tb«
remeiukwr
thAM pM-

that thji>
ropheoy of

witneMM
teatinoony
». " Wo
W9 dfloUre
of heaven
I platen to
Oowdery,
Uarria.
es. They

give teH^
M\pr te^ti-
witnewes.
n us the
fold. We
U. Bi^n-
lel Smith

ihat he is
iQre than
«d by the
came and
dn't it be
B«e are all
Hnid liitit
bhene wit-
)estiraony.
case In
page Its,

1 went to
presented
sen trans-
thereof to
pentleniau
>rr«ct. I

were not
they were
rand A ra-
le charao-
• This pa-
yroll. It

tttlt COOl^tR-LlVERTON DIBAtl.

crooked
mnn and
1 by some
n at the
>a8 alpl^a-

beU, Oreek and H«br*.w letter*,
eromeii, flomidheH, etc." We have
other* tettimony bo the effect that a
good Bleed book conniRting of a num-
^»er of platen of gold, fantcnefl by
wires, was dng up in the northern
jiart of New Y6rk State. The hook
oontained various eorolU, etc., which
no one could deoipher. ' This is testi
mony outside of the Latter Day
Saints. These plates were presented
to Prof. Anthon. How is it that this
ignorant lasy fellow could get these
perfect characters upon paper and
muid them to be proved.

On page 187, David Whitmer testi
fiee on his death-bed: "It having
been represented by one John Mur-
phy, that !,• in a conversation with
him last summer denied my testimony
as one, of the three witnesses to the
Book of Mormon. * ♦ * I never
at any time denied that t$»timony or
any part tihereoJg||bich has so long
since been publ^UP with that book
lis one of the three witnessee. I do
now again affirm the truth of my
statement as then made and pub-
ished.

" He that hath an ear to hear, let
him hear. I do not indorse polygamy
or spiritual wifery. It is forbidden
in the B(*6k of Mormon itself! My
sincere desire is that this argument
may be useful to the world. The
wnrld has tried in every way to im-
peach this testimony. Here is a man
almost drawing bis last breath who
renews bis testimony that these things
are true. What object had this man
in making these tMtimonies, my op*
ponent said it was a money-making
scheme. It is not so. There has
been no money making in it. There

has been no paid ministry. I can
testify to the truth of that fact. I
ha vis labored for this because I knew
it ws« God's oause. I have been
offered $800 by one and f 1,000 by an*
olkmr ohidrcth if I would go And proaeb

for them. Latter Day Datali My

that the preaohiac of the goepel
should not M mixed with cgmmeroe.
We believe it is right for the miniatar
to receive his hire i)ut not to maka a
business of it, and live on the fat of
the land. Oliver Oowdery says, 1^^
set type for the 3ook of Mormon and
there were no capitals in it. The
capitals are in the first manusoript and
it was the printer who left tben o«t.
Martin Harrii says, " When I am dead
let my hand be folded aoroea nay brewt
and this boo^ of God folded with
them, eto." As reading is not very
interesting I will not tronbl* yoa
with more of it. There must be worn*-
thingjn this. But it harmonine with
tiie Word of God. If this is not the
Word of God, whore is it to be found.
My opponent said last night that the
Book of Mormon was false on aoeount
of the Egyptian language. I hmw
told you all about that. He Mya it
was Spaulding's novel. Jf this thing
be falsa let it go to the gronnd. In
the Braden and Kelly debate, paga
91-k Hurlburt says : "I visited Mrs.
Matilda Spauldins in 1834 and n«ver
saw her afterwaros. I then received
from her a manuscript of her hnt*
band's which I did not read but
brought home with me and imma-
diately gave it to Mr. E D. Howe, of
Painesville, Ohio, who was than an-
ga«ed in prepariBg his book, " Mor*
monism tin veiled." Mr. Howe ra*
ceived it under the conditions on"
which I took it from Mrs. Spaulding
(then Mrs. Davidson), to compare it
with the Book of Mormon and Uien
return it to her. I never received
any other manuscript of Spaulding's
from Mrs. Davidson or anTftnt> ftlHh

Of that manuscript I made no othar*^
use than to give it with all my other
dooumento connected with Mormonisin
to Mr. Howe. I did not destroy the
manuscript nor dispoea of it to Joe
Sautk nor any owar panRm. Mr.

<%m^*^!^Kric i^:i^'fMi ■ n.^^^^

'>',..»l

Wttt OOOPKR-LteiriBtON hRHAW.

How* Mya in •• IformonMQi (Jo veiled"
P^ M« Th« trunk nhrrml (o l.j

•nd found Ui oonuiit onlv « sintflr
iiiMUNonpt book in Hp«uldiiig'ii hand
writing conUininK •IkmiI on* (|u r#» «>f
0»*p«r. It WM A nmiaiiifl writUtn in
•iiciimt ntjrle. Mm. Hurlburt Myn :
Mr. Hurlliurt n«v4^r obti^incd but on«i
nniinuiioript which \m guvn Ut Mi.
>Jow«^ He pminiMMl to rtwuire it to
Mr. Hurlburt, but did noteloiw. H*
would have given nny thing in tfie
world, he Midvin liiii deatlibed, if he
wuld have found « manuMoript i.f
NpAulding** anything niniilar U) the
Mwk of Momion. The manuscript
WM ill Mr. Babine'fi care from 1816 to
1820, being in an old trunk full of
manuncripte of Sol. Hpaulding. Mh..
MoKinii'trj, 8. Spauldin^j'H daughter,
teetifiee: 1816 I ceiuenibev the old
tirunk and its contents reathetl here
in safety Snaitli was iwrn in Upc,"
1805 and would have been but eleven
to fifteen years of age while the man
Qsoript was at Sabine's He never
worked there though Miss Dickison
H»ys it was understood that he did^
In 1820 her mother had it. She
handled the inunuHcript. In 1834 it
was nven to Hurlburt by her mother. .
The Book of Mormon was published
in, 1830, It.ijj strange that it was
not published before this. To follow
It still further, I now nhatl turn your
itttention to tbi " Manuscript Found."
Mr. Rigdon says- There was no
AMftu by the name «f Patterson during
my reeidenoe in Pittsburg who had a
printiag offloe. What might have
been before I lived there I know not.
Mf. Robt. Patt^rwo,''. I wm told,
owBid a printing oi&oe before I lived
itt that city, \ m i had two unfortunate —
inbumoMsand failed. If I were to
«ay th»t f ever heard of the Rev. Sol.
SpMitding and his wife until Dr. P.
Hurlburt wrote his lie about me, I
•iMMiM b« aliar like uiiio thevttlvea,

Hurlburt «.nce liejongetl tn the Metb
enlist ohureh. H*> aftirwimU joined
the Latter Day HainfM. hiH was put
out for itinultint( a youiij< laily iind
wantml rev«»ngr. I.ei um MMt how ^'r
How«. diMpo(H«Ml .tt ihp iiiniiiiMcript.

In a l«tt*T «lHt««d tVooi Horinlulii tr»
Mr. Jos .Sriiiili, In- «>iuh : Tli». Spanld-
ing innnuMTipt f«iiH« inti» my posss*.
sioM in tlii» way

hi IH:I0 iO my iiartuer aiul. myself
iKiught fif R. I). Howft the Pninesville
Telegrnpl^, publiKh^rl lU hiinesville,
Ohio. Tlw irniiHt'iT nf tlif> printing
de|>artmeiit, ^ty|»««, dii'mw, ,tc., was at;
t;nin)Hiiiied with h lar^' c«»lb»fttion of
iKKiks, manuM-Hpf, An-. Thin timnu-
script of SpuiiJdini; .iinoii;;^ th«« rent.
.Soy«»u nme, it lin» Ih>«>ii in my jiosm's-
Mion ovot" forty y««iirK.

Now w». hrtvp followed ii into the
hands of Mi. How.-, "riiirtof Spftold-
inj<V was Hiiiong tlip mamiNcHpt. I
lifivo harl it forty years, hut never
examined it until liitely. ^ ow he
tells that it is found Mr. Joe Rmi«h
writes, 1 am grmitly obliged U» you for
the information a I »out the manuscript.
It is the genuine 4io6k of Spaulding.
Two thingR are nertniii, it is a genuine
writing of .Spftulding and it in not the
original of the Hook' of Mormon. We
never heard of any other manusoript
until this came t.» light. Thoy said
there were nimilnr name.n in these two
Hooks but it was found there were
none. They wantt-d lo buy the man-
uscript so they could cover up their
falsehood Mr. Rice said he would
put it in Oberlin Ck>llege for safe keep-
ing. He made an entire copy- of the
manuscript Oberlin is near where it
was written. Here are some more
tlBstimonies .*- As regards, the names

T hate here the two books and if you
can find sidllar names t will forfeit
$200, and now for the teetimoiiiee
that it was genuine. Jt was sent to
the College and tv certified copy given,
Htr«ts thf e«rtifle«t«. Obidia Oo\

". ' «.

r-, "{gv-^V ,^ , ^ •- i *■ I ? tr.

T^B (fOuPBR LRVERTON PEJdATi,

hf«, .loly 3.1, 'I«Hn, I wnv..
clfil»v«iv.l lo Mr, T, K«jllv u t;opv ut
».h« iniiniiMitipi or MtilmiLiyMjHuiUlinK,
Kwif J). MM iiMiiuliilii liy Mr. U i.
KioM, t.i til,, liliimy .,fyHMM'liiH?».||,»j(t.,
for)i*ri» k»..|.ing. <Mi<l i/..w II, my ,.,i,-...
IIM' t'n^,y wns pivjMiri/l HI Mr. KtUy'k
\'*ir\umt. »\iiU') nrv W«*rviHi<tii immI iw,
Ml IihIm'U'. kii »..mui{ lriiii)»iri|a orthe
origiiiul mumiM|'i|rt, iii<;|ri«lih« MtMi
Virm, tuiH|)rlltri

Mr. AAioif

MR. COOPERS THIRD REPLY.

•9

Mr. Ohaihma.n, Laiukh ani»Ukn»le
.ME.N : -\l^- iip(Miii«4iit nKk» tor proof of
tho ftaw;rtioii.H I madr lH«t nig),t ,»„ (»
thiB Book ni Aloriiion, and an to Rig.
iUm \Mnan in l^ittsburgwInMi Npaulding
wa« there. I .shall My and accoinmo-
dtit<9 him. Hr auaiu rauibh'd through
the Uible fur «om«; proofs of the di-
vine origin oi the liook of Morwun,
hut h»'.f..und noiip VViiat h** tjuoted
liati no ref.r.«nc(R t.. the Hook of Mor-
mon whatovrr, and I cajtnot lie «x-
pectwl t«» wa8t«t my time mpjying to
hill pretendud argumuntn. ^

To prove that Solomon .Spaulding
wrote the historical part of the Book
of Mormon, and that it 13 identical
with the " manuscript if6und," I shall
prodiice severjU tJf the mo.st respecta-
ble and coMipetent witnesses who lived
b$wde Mr Spaulding, and who heard
him read his novel and who wal) r n-

Our nv( witfioM is
Wrioiit. HeUiMtiHeM:

'•t»n«.l*.T «h«H I w«. M't|,» h««M af
.S..|iMn(m N|Miul.lln«. It*. •how«.l nu.i p^ iq
iiM'ti IiIhUh.v \w mw. wriUau of t||« loH
I rllw» »{ ImihuI, pill w»rtim| iTmi th«y war*
'h« (ir«l M'ttlfia of Aiiu.H«!i», and ih^i It,.
•11)111* ««!••. thuii •l«t4taii(J«aU. H(t tr»J«t
» It'll 4.Miiiim f.<.g|^l..ru«»U.iir»o ,\,„,ri««i
Hr lol.l nil. liiM (iTlJi-,! WM to aooouttt for
tlir l«M(ini!«thiiit, #U'., that w«r« to b«
ouiiii in tin* cMUMtiv, luid «ii«l >h«t in tJm*
t wuuUI Ik. riilty IwhuviKl by •!! tixu«Dt bv
l«»rn«H in«n nn.l hiNtoHiiiit '^

Olivek .Smith teHtitteii ;

"Molomou Spauhling iKwrtlsd kt
houw' aix monlhii, All hit leknr* hoiTri

member the names in it, and who
state emphatically that the Spaulding
novel and the Book of Mormon ar«
identical wi*th the 'exception of the
dhapt«r« stolen from the Bible and put
into it. -.,•••■■•■>•■;■ -- •■ :■■''.

ncn .M-.,Hpi«.l in mitmg « liUtoriual anv\
fouii<|««d ii|KniMiu.|iiHt HflttUniiof tluH coun-
try, lie aiiiil h<^ ilHonilntl to tnic«- thwir
JOUIIK-V flOIII .)«rilMtl«lli by UihI »,„| ,^ mi

tlu'ir MTiuil 111 Aiuniw. »u(l ijive »u »«.
couiil of rli..ii- ttitH, ^cioiicw, militotloir
lawn ami ( oiit«.Hti.>nn In tliin way hu wouU
«ito II nati-fhrtory nc. oiint «f all th« vAA
muuijii., Ml idinnion in iliia oounti-y. Neoki
auil Ulii Hen. by hhn repreMnted •« the
leading tliarrtitort, when thcy.flrtt •tertail
forAnioHca, rh«h main object waa to eg.
«ape the Judgnienta which they •UDDoeed
were oumiog upon th« old world:" *^*^^

Nahum Howard testifies :

" In oonvoiwtion with Solomon Span Id-
lUg I exprnmed my^aurprise that wo ha<i no
account ot the people once in this country
who ere<!tod I he old imt, momidn, etc. Re
told nie ho wan writing a bietoiy of that
puople "^

AKTBMUii OiNNiNunAM testitiM :
•• Solomon SMuideg dewsribed to oie hie
book. He laid that it wee a fabuloueor
romantic hutory of the 6rst inhabi-
tant* of this country, and it purported td
be a record found buried in the earth, or in
a cave He had Mopted the ancient or
Scriptural style of wnting. He then xmA
from hie mauueeiupt. I remember the nune
of Nephi, who appeared to be the prindnal
heroof the •tory The frecjuent wpititGi
of the phraee "I Nepbj." I rwnemfcw dis-

tinctiyaa though it were yesterday. He
attempted to account for the nnmeroos aa-
tiqmtiee whioh are foond ii|mB th# qoiiti.

JoMJr N. MiLLKR, whowa8am«iiib«r
of Solomon Spaulding's household for
many months, t«6tifiM :

.■*»

■1

J^■■.» tj

,^^^:u.!'

<■/

'<' i ivv

.'''

f- ^'

■' '\

I I

•• «

■r

■VA »* i'p.

r TH« GOOl^ER-LEVtRfON D*B4f A.

''I p«ru«ad 8|Mfulding's nuuiuaoripU, m I
had IcUore, more p»rtioularly the one he

■ eftlled hie " Mtinutcript Found. " It pur-
ported to be * hiatory of the fint Mttlera of
America. He brouglit them off from Jeru-
lalam, under their loMlenr, detailing their

^tnvtM by land and byaea."

We nowr introduce a most import-
ant witness, Mrs. HPAULoiifo, wife of
fHoIomon Spaulding, S||e sftys :

«»^Mr. Spaulding conceived the idea of writ-
idg a history of the Jong loat race that pro-
dooed theae antiquities. Thdr extreme age
or antiquity lead him to write iii the most
ancient style, and as the Old Testament was
the oldest book in the world, he imitated
itM style as much as possible. As be pro-
gr ssssd in his narrative the neighbors would
oome in from time to time to hear portions
read, \nd a great interest in the work was
excited among them,, It claimed to^have
been written by one of the lost nation, and
to have bawti recovered from the earth. The
neighbors would often ask how, Mr. Spauld-
ing progressed in decipherinje the manu-
•mpt, and when he Hid a aumoieot portion
prepared he would inform them and they
would asaamble to hear it read. He was
enabled from hu acquaintance with the
elasti cs and ancient history, to introduce
niany sinjjnlar names, which were partiou-
kriy noticod by the people, and oould saaily
bereoQgnixed by them.'^

BuDDiOK McKiB, of Washington,
p. C testifies:

"I was a lN>arder at Spaulditag'b tavern
in Amity, Pa., in the fall of 1814. I recol-
lect quite well Mr. Spaulding spending
much time in writing cm the sheets of paper
torn from aii old book what purported to
be a veritable history of the nations or
tribes that mhabited Caiuufn. He called it
'^Lost Manuscript," or some such name.
I was struck with the minuteness of its
details. I have an indistinct recdllectioh
of jUie passage referred to by Mr. Miller,
afwat the Atnlicites making a cross -with
ted paint in their foreheads to distinguish
them fnmi their enemies in the confusion of
bMitle.

Mxi Abnkk Jacksom, of Canton,
Ohio, who heard Spaulding. read the
romanoe to his father in Gonneaut^
just before his reAoyal to Pittsburg,
testifies:. ■;*;•■;/, •■■

** Spaulding freooently read his manu-
script to the neighbcHrs aad oommant^d on
itsslMprogTMsed. ^.^ wrote it in Bible

s^le, "And it came to pass," ooc ur rsd M
often that some called him "Old come to
pass." The names MormOn, - Moroni,
Nephi, Nephite, Lamen, Lamentte, etc.,
were in it. The closing scene wasaf
Cumorah, where all the righteous wen
slain." ■ ; ; ; ;■ ■ .;

Hiram Lakr, of Oohneaut, Ohio
testified, Dec. 2ard, 1880, as follows

" I am sixty-nine years of age and havi
lived all my life at Conneaut, my fathei
was partner with Sol. Spaulding, in 1811
and 1812. About 1834 when i was twenty-
three years of age, I remember there wai
great excitement in Conneaut oonoemin(
Mormonisn. My father read the Book 6)
Mormon and was familiar with its content
and he told me it was unquestioUftbly de-
rived from a manuscript written tiy Sounnon
Suaulding called "Manuscript Found."
My father made an affidavit to the same
effect. Since 1834 I have conversed with
Aaron Wright, J. N. Miller, Nathan How-
ard, old residents here now dead", all of
whom lived here in 181 L, 1812 and who had
heard Spaulding's manuscript read, and
they tola me that the Book of Mormon was
derived from Spaulding's " Manoaoript
Found." They mi^ affidavits to the same
effect.'"

LoRiK Gould, of Oonneaut, Ohio,
Dec. 23rd, 1 880, testifies :

V' l have lived ai Conneaut, Ohio, sixty*
lix years. Duriiig all that period I have
known Hiram Lake, whose statement dated
Deo. md, 1880, I have read. This state-
oient I believe to be true. I was acquaint-
ed with Henry Lake, Aaron Wright,. John
N. Miller', N: Howlird, and the persons
named in Hiram Lake's statement, and
about 1834-36, the time of the excitement
concemiuff Mormonism- I heard th0m ail
say that the Book of Mormon jirim uildoubt^ .
edly taken from a maiiuBcripi written bj
Solomon, Spaulding, which they had heurd
Spaulding read in 1811 or 1812, called
"Manuscript Fouiid,"or "The tost Tribes".

Henry Lakk, Mr. SpauloUug's busi-
ness pwtner, testifies:

"Solomon Spaulding frequently read to
me from a manuscript which he was Writ-
ing and which he entitled the"Manuscript
Found." 1 spent many hours in hettriifg '
him read said writings, ai|d beoanH^eU
acquainted .#ith its contei|its. .He wwied
me to assist bim in gettiiq; it printfld»!'lw a ■
book of that kind Would meet with a ready
sale. This manuscript represented the
American Indians a* we lest tribes, gave

*wr,''fS'- •

rt-

THB OGOPER.LEViERTON DIJBATR

mmd M
com* to
Mortmi,

ite, etc.,

>u» wert

t, Ohio
ioUows

uid hav<
y f»thei
in 1811
\ twenty-
here wei
•ooerniaf
Book 6)
oonteott
Iftbly de-
Soiomoa

ihe Munfi~7
led with
ta Uowt
d, jOI of
who had
Nul, and
rnon wm
ftBoeoript
the ume

t» Ohio,

io, eixty*
I I have
inb dated
hisBtate-
usquaint-
(ht,. John
persons
ent, and
icitement
th0m ail
oiidoubt^ .
ntten bj
tad heard
ir called
1 Tribes".

^8 bttsi*

f read to
ras wiiit-
uiuacript
k heariifg

e wwied .

ttedfasa.,,.
Ii a ready
Bted the

bee.: gare

an aooount of their leaving .femMleiu, th«ir
Oont ention and work whioh were many and
great. Onetime, when he wa# reading to
me the tragic account of Laban, I pointed
out to him what I oouHidered an iuconais-
tenoy, which he promiiied to correct ; but
by referring to the Book of Mormon, I find
to my great surprise, it stands there juat as
he read it to me theii. Some months ago I
borrowed a Golden Bible, put it in my pock-
et, and carried it home, and thought no
-Hnore about it. About a week after my Wife
found the book in iiiy pocket as my coat
hung up, and commericedjigwiinR it aloud to
me as I U^ on the Jied^plhe had not read
twenty mmutes before Twas iiatonished to
find the same passages in it that Spauldiug
had read to me more than tWeiity yeara l»e.
fore from his ' Manuscript/ Found. ' Since
^* I have more fully examined the said
Golden Bible, (Book of Moimon), and have
bo hesitation in saying that the historical
jP»nSpf it ie principally, if not wholly taken
ironi the * Manuscript found.' I well re-
oolleot telling Mr. Spaulding that so fre-
quent use of the words "and it came to
paj«i,''Now it came to pass,' rendered it
ridioulous. Spaulding left here in 1812,
and I furiiished him with the means to car-
ry him to Pittsburg, where he said he would
get the book printed and pay me. But I
never heard any more from Irni or his writ-
ings, till I saw theqi in the Book of Mor-
mon."

John Spaulding, brother of i^oio-
ttion Spaulding testifies :

"The 'Manuscript Found' was uu historic
oal romance of the first settlers of Ameri<ca, .
endeavoring to show that the American
Indians are descended from the .Tows, or
lo»t tribes. It gave a detailed account of
their journey from Jerusalem by land and
sea, till they arrived in America, tender -
the command of Nephi and Lehi. They
afterwards had contentions and quarrels,
and separated into two distinct nations, tlie
Nephites and th6 Lamanites. Gruel and
bloody wars ensued, in which great multi-
tudes were slain. They buried their dead
in great heaps, which cau»ed the mounds so
oommon in this country. Their arts,
scieneea and civilization were brought into
view, in order to account for all tlie curious
antiqnities found in y^rioijs parts of North
and South America. • I have recently read
the Book of Mormon and to my great sur-
prise I find nearly the same historical mat-
ter, names, etc., as they were in toy
brother's writings. I well rememlier that
'be wro^e ia the old style, aad ooimnen<^

oame ta

about every sentence with « And it oa
pass,' or 'Now (t oame to pass,' the wiim
as In the Book of Mormon, and according te
the best of my recollection and belief, it ie
the same an uiy brother Sulonion wrate,
with the exception of the i*eligiouH niatter.'*

M«8. Ann Trrdwrlt., <»iP Syracuse,

made a statement in June 17, 1880| «i
follows ; ■ ;

"In the year 1818 I was principal of On-
ondaga Valley Accademy, and resided in
the house of W. R. Sabine, brother-in<Uw
of Solomon Spaulding. I remember Mrs,
SpauhiiiiK, and of hearing her and the fam<
ily talk of the inaunscript in her possession,
which her husband, Rev. 8. Spaulding, had
writjien somewhere in the west. Ita sub.
stance was so often mentioned, and the pe.
ouliarity of the story, that years afterwaid,
when the Mormon Bible was published, I
procured a copy, and at c^ce recognised the
resemblance bet^^een itand Mrs. Spaulding'a
account of the 'Mmtuisqript Found.'"

Mr. Jo&iPH;Mai,KR,'of Ten Mil^

Pa., testifies :. »^ -

"I was intimately acquainted with Solo-
mon Spaulding, and often heard him read
what he called the 'Manuscript Foiind.' It
was a fictitious novel of the people that
built the mounds. 1 had the Book of
Mormon in my house for about six months
for the purpose of comparing it with my re-
coUections of the 'Lost Manuscript Found,'
and I unhesitatingly say that a great part
of the historical part of it, the Book of Mor-
mon is identical with the manuscript, and I
fully believe that the manuscript Is the
foundatioA of the whole concern."

Mrs. McKinstry's statement re-
garding the ' Manuscript Pound, '
Washinctton, D. C, April .Srd, 1880.
Mrs. McKinistry is the child or
daughter of Solomon Spuulding. She
testifies :

"My father read the manuscript I had
^ecn him writing to the neighbors and to a^
clergyman a friend of his who oame to
visit him. S<Hne of the names he mentien-
ed while reading to the people I have nevef'
forgotten. They are as fresh in my memory
as though I had heard them but j'esterday'
They are Mormon, Moroni,: Lamanite and

Xejilu, etc, ;; :^ ■[

- ;v

»' t.

104

THE OOOPEK T.EVKRTON DEBATE.

Mm. Johx Spauldiso, testiflei :

"I WM at tho house of Solomon Spauld-
ing shortly before he left Conneaut. He
w&s then writhiu a historical nurel founded
on the first settlvi-M of Auiei-iua. He repre-
■•nte<l them as an enlighteneil mttd warlike
people. He had for many yeai-M contended
that the aborigines of America were the
detcendants of eome of the lost tribes of
lame] ; and this idea he carried out in the
book in question. The lapse of time pre-
tents my rfcCoUectiug hut few of the leading
incident of his writings, but the names Lehi
and Xephi are yet fresh in my memory as
being the princinal heroes of his tale, llioy
were officers of the company which lirs't
oame off from Jerusalem, Ff'e gave a par^
tioular account of their journey by land and
by sea till they arrived in Auierica, after
vhioh -disputes olrose between the Chiefa,
whioh caused them to separate into bands,
one of which was oaUed Lamanites and the
other Nephites. Between these there were
recounted tremendous battles, which fre-
quently covered the ground with the slain,
and these being buried in large heaps wore
the, cause of many of the nmundu in the
country."

Now ban an averi^e Mormon give a
better outlme of the historical part of
the Nephite portion of the Hook of
. Mormon than we have here f I have
taken great paiM.<i to give you thie tes-
titioony (tf many witnesses, witnesses
of the greate.«t respePtability and of
the b|pt standing in the United
States, so that yon may know beyond
a shadow of * doubt, that the Book
of Mormon is simply a reproduction
of Solomon SpauldiDg's historical
.noveL . .■• .-; •; /

We shall now turn for a few min-
utes to Sidney Rigdon, who stole the
Ifanosoript Found from Patterson's
printinf( office in Pittsburg, who met .
Joe Smith and who wa.s so instrumen-
tal in imposing the great fraud upon
the Unthinking, tbe simple and ignor-
ant. It is denied by Mr. Leverton that
he was in Pittsburg before '22 and that
he visited Joe Smith in 1827. Let us
examine these questions. There ii^
the clearf^t and; liest testimony that
he did visit Jo« Smith in 1827 and

that he wa8 in Pittsburir before 1822.
Mrs. Kichbaum who was clerk in the
post office i n Pi tt.xl lorjf . from 1 HI 2 to
1816, gives UH the testimony that a
young man by the name »»f r4tmlKlin
was in Mr. Patterson's office and be^
came his partner in 1818. 8he states
that Higdon and Lamhdin were Very
intimate and that Mr. Engle, foreman
of Pattei-son's printing office complain-
ed that Rigdon was loafing around
the "office all the time ; Higdon was
working in a tannery at the time.
He being around Patterson's office so
much that people thought he was
working there. He w as hot working,
but loafing there.

Kev. John Winter, M. D., who
was a member of Higdon 's congrega*
tion and intimate with him, testifies :

"That Rigdon in his presense, in his
house took out of a desk ft manuscript, atid
remarked that a Presbyterian minister,
Spjiuldintf, vvhos*! hfifilth liad failed brought
this to a printoi- to Hce if it would jpay to
publish it.' It ia a romance of the Bible —
and he got it from tlio printer tb read as a
curiosity." Here we have clear proof that
that Rigdon had Spauiding's manuscript in
his possession in 1823. In the winter of
1826, Rigdon moved to Bainbridge, Ohio.
Soon after he was visited by his niece, now.
>lv8. Dunlop, of \\'arren, Ohio. She testi-
ties : "That her uncle, in her presence,
went into his bed rOooi and took from a
trunk which he kept carefully looked, a
manuscript and came back, seated himself
by the fire and began to read. His Wifo~.^
came into the room and exclaimed: 'What!
you are studying that thing again !'" 'I
mean to bum that paper,' Rigdon replied,
•No indeed, you will not. This will Im» a
great thing 8<wse day.^ Rigdon had the
manuscript and he ezpieoted to make a great
thing out of it. "

"EigdoBkiiew of the Book of Mbrmoo
and described its contents before it appear-
ed. ^ A. Bently, brother-in-law of Rigdon,,
and one of the th'ost reliable men in Ohio
at the time declares in the Millennial Har-.
bingerof 1844, page 39: "I know that.'
Sidniey Rigdon told me as iritich as two
years before the Mo)-mon liook made its
appearance, or had ))een heard of by me,
that there was a book coming out, the man-
UBcript of whioh was ennaved on gold
plates." , •

AlMXi

the same
laid : ^

•♦That
York, the
aboriffinei
■tattfa als
beenprea<
int centu
isgiton \

Davie

••Rigd<
a book to
eeontof tl

Mrs.
Rudolph
Presidcn

** Darin
peuance i
wMin thi
from hom<
apt>earedp
in droamy
.those who
Mormon a
theadvoct
■napicion
the framei

That I
Joe Smit

POHEB

'Sjpbith, sa

"Amyt
Smith's an
•d .money I

Mbs. I
D. D., ar

dent of ]

x.*« Early
teHous sti
Smith's ctt]
are most ii
ingimmea
in the faiti
clergyman,
Mentor, 01

J.H.I

Franklin

• ".Asa iin
gun^ent, th
Mbrmonisi
qoainted fc
moaiam w«

f^.'.it1t^

t^^^a

fore 1822.
rk in the
1 l«12 to-
iy thnt a

LunilKlin
n and he^
4he atiit6M
were Very
S foreman
complain-
g around
gdon waa
the time.
I office 80
b he was

working,

D., who

congregao

testifies :

i»t in his
eicript, atid
tniniater,
ed brongljt
mid jpav to
he Bible -
i read aaa

proof that
^uscript in

winter of
dge, Ohio.
ni«ce, now.

She teati-
• presence,
)k front a

locked, a
ad himaell
HisHrifB-.
I: •What!
jaiu !'■ 'I
m replied,

will be a
1 had tha
tkeagreat

)f Mormoo
it a|jpear«
I Rigdon,, A
a in Ohio
mial Hur-.
enow ilmt.*
sh a« two
made its
j< by me,
.the man' ;
1 on gold

THE OOOPBR-LBVEllTON DEBATE.

106

a book
deantoi

ao-
of

AiiUAiroiH Campbell testifies to
tht same thing and says that Ki^don
laid: ;•

"That on the plateii dug up in New
York, there was an aocount of not only the
aboriginaa of this continent, but it was
stated also that the Christiun Religion hod
bMu preaohod on this continent, during the
irst century, just as they were then preach-
ing it on the West«rn Reserve."

David Atvuter testifies i*

*' Rigdon said before IS20 that there was
to be published coutaiiiing an
I the aborigines of America.

Mrs. Garfield's father testifies
Rudolph was the father-in-law
President Garfield. ) He testifies :

''During the winter previous to the ap-
pearance of the Book of Mormon, Rigdon
WM in the habib of spending weeks away
from home no one knew whither. He often
appeared pre-occupied, and lie would indulge
in droamy visionary talks which puzzled
.thote who heard him. ' When the Book of
Mormon appeared Rigdon at once joined in
the advocacy of the qew religion, and the
nupioion was aroused thatt he was one of
the framers of the new doctrines."

That Rigdon came into contact with
Joe Smith in 1827-8-9;

PoMEEOY Tucker, who lived near
'Sjpbith, says: •

" A njysterious stranger now appears at
Smith's and holds intercourse with the fam-
ed .money digger." (1827.)

1I|B9. Eaton, wife of Horace Eaton,
D. D., and for thirty^two years a resi-
dent of Palmyra, say.4i

\ *♦ Early in the summer of 1827, a mys-
teHous stranger seeks ^ admission to Joe
Smith's cttbin. The conferences of the two
are most private. This person whose com-
ing immeoiately preceded a hew departure
in the faith 'was Sidney Rigdon, a bdckHliden
olergymiin, then a Campbellite preacher in
J^entor, Ohio."-

J. H. McCAULAy, in his History cf

Franklin Co., Pa., states :

• ".As a tnatter ^o well known to need rtr-
gument, that Joseph Smith, the founder of
Mbrmonism, and Sidney Rigdon were ac-
qoaintad for a considerable timebefore Mbr-
moaiqn w»B first heard of," ;^ • ^.^

A BtL CnM*, ft iMftr nftighbor «l

Smith, says :

f 'Msaw Rigdon at Smith's at diffwreni
times; with considerable interval* balWMS
them.'"

Lorenzo Saunders, another near
neighbor, says :

'* I saw Rigdon at Smith's several timei,
and the first visit was more than two yeai*
before the first Book of Mormon appeaMi."

This testimonjr disproves tfa^ statft'
ments of my opponent and othenii
that Rigdon was not in Pittsburg at
the time the manuscript was thens
and that he was not at Smith'* until
after the Book of Mormon was pub*
lished, and^ that he never saw Smitb
uuUl converted to Mormonisni.

-^ r~— 7^ Time expired. \

r«'

MR. i^VERTONl^ FOURTH SPEECH,

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gsntli*
men,— I am afraid thirty minutes will
be too short a time for me to say all I
have to say. The first thing I notioe
on my notes is the wildcat iNtnki
These men were not the only on«s
that went into that business. There
were mahy banks that went down at
that time. My friend says Huf Iburt
was a Mormon. He was also a Meth*
odist. There was only one manu
script If my friend had proved to
you thdre were tvco manuscripts wft
would feel sure of it. Ho has not
done so. I have traced the manu-
script from one hand to anothar.
From Jbhe evidence given, Mrs. Mc«
TCinstry says that the manuscript was
given to them. Other witnesses he had
who were not under 'oath. But this
is one tW was under oath and tolls
the truth. He speaks of a mystorioui

>■■

■^^.•^^■^iii^.t.^it

t-'#V*

loe

THB.OCtpPXIULaVSRTON DJtBATK.

.-»•*

•Iraoger. Did you n«v<jr i)a,ve a
myvteriouH stranger in your town?
Mr. Sidney Rigdon was a mininter
who was respfioted in his own town.
He received the Book of Mormon for
the first time from a stranger who
oame there. What has that got to do
with the characters in the Bible f It
ie a wonderful thing that Uod would
use some of the characters in the
Bible to give his revelations to. Infidels
will qse the same arguments against
the Bible. Noah got drunk. Abra-
ham and Jacob were polygamists.
Moaes slew an Egyptian and Jesus
WM called ah impostor by the Jews.

his land, for the precious things of
heaven, for the dew and for the deep
that couoheih beneath and for the
precious fruits. * * ♦ he shall
push the people together to the ends
of the earth. These blessings describe
the land that is to be left to Joseph
kpd his jposf erity, Isa. 16: 8, "For the
fields of Uishbon languish atd the
vine of Sibmah. • * * Her
branches are stretched out,- they are
gone over the sea Hih branchtia had
gone over the sea. They were -to go
over the s6a. Isu. t»: 8, '•<\nihe shall
pass through J udah, he shalf overflow
and go Qver,^ * • •/and the

Can my friend find one immorality in stretching out 6f his wip4s shaU fill

th« Book of Mormon. It is more
•0dnit polygamy than the Bible.
This ia nbthing agftiost the Bible.
Man ia weak and jirSl sometimes fall
b«for« temptations. Joe Smith was
ptrsecuted. He was several times up
in court but Was every, time acquitted.
Here is what the Book of Mormon
sayt on the subject of polygamy.
David and Solomon had many wives,
etc., he shall have one wife and GJbn-
cttbines he shAll have none . The mar-
riage ceremony runs like this; you
both mutually agree to k6ep your-
selves holy to each other during life,
etc. There are no- immoral laws in
the book. It is strange that his
writingisdo not sho v that he was so
bad. I have drawn your att-utiou to
the passage in Gen. 48: 21-22, " And
Israel said unto Joseph, behold, I die;
but Qod shall be with you and bring

the breadth of thy lan<i,/6, Immanuel.
Joseph was to havB^a greater blessing
than that given to Abrs(ham, This
was to be a greater land. Ite
branches were to run oyer the wall,
over the seii. There were to be two
wings. North and 8outh\ America,
answers to this descriptiokL Bald-
win's history of the antiquities of
America shows that it was inlW)ited
by civilized people hundreds of ^War8
before Colunil. us discovered Araentea,
My friend says that the relioai fouat
in the mounds agree with this. This
was to be counted a strange thing,
Wouldn't, God be with his people
when they cunie lo this land? This
is Ephraim's land. Tlien also that the
law of God should be* written to £ph<
raim, Ez. 16: 37.

Ps. 85: 11," Truth shall spring out
of the earth and rij^hteousness shall

u^ain unto the land of your fathers, }pok down from heaven. These two

truth from earth and

etc." 49: 22-26, Joseph il a fruitful
bough, even a fruitful bough by a
well, whose branches run over the
■wall. ;■

The blessings of n>y father liave
prevailed atiove the bfestings of my
progenitors unto the utmost bound of
the everlasting hills. ' ,.

» Also Deut. 33: 13-17, And of Jos-
eph he said^ " Blessed of the Lord be

were to meet,

righteousness from heaven, Piom
Zechariah we have foudd' that the
truth was to be revealed to a young
man. In John' 17: 17, Christ says,
Sanctify th* in through thy truth, thy >
word is truth. Tlii.H truth was to'
spring up out of the earth. The gos-
pel of Christ is come* down from
heaven, ,

;'■, *■■

^'V'"*|^,v^

thingfi of
r the deep
d for the

he shall

the ends
g[8 describe
to Joseph
, "For the
I atd the
* Her
- they are
nohes Jiod
re re to go
id^ho shall
^ overflow

and the
I shall fill
[mmanttel.
ir blessing
am. This
ind. Its

the wall^
to be two
, America, >
)\ Bald<
]uities of

inluU^ited
5 of years
Araentefliv
licai found
lis. This
ige thing,
lis people
nd? This
id that thA
in to £ph*

ipriug out
iUess shall
These two
earth and
1, Piom

that the
> a young
irist says»
truth, thy>
I wus to'

The gos-
owa froi»

^ ,

t&E (fcOOPlR-LEVBRTON pBBATS.

The ^vit offche land was to increase
and then Ood should bring his people
Mck. Then tho angel w to come.
Rev H: 6, and I saw another angel
fly \n the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto
them, that dwell on the earth,
saying with a loud voice, fear Ood,
and give tjlory to hiin for the hour of
his judgment is come. We have pre-
dictions of judgment to come on earth
iti Matt. 24,. Luke 13, Mark 16.
When these things come to pass the
ongel is to come with the gospel and
there shall be truth on the earthl I
see no difficulty in these predictions
about the new lond. These prophe-
cies must mean something. I)eut. 38:
17, his glory is like the firstling of his
bullock, and his horns Kre like the
horns of unicorns. With them he shall

1)S]

167

push the people together to the ends of th^r prudent men shall be hid^

hath poured out upon you the ipiiit
of deep sleep, ana hath closed your
eyes ; the prophets and your mjera,
the seers hath he covered, and the
vision of all is come unto you as the
words of a book that is sealed, whieh
men deliver unto one who is learned
saying, read this, I pray thee; and he
saith, I cannot, for it is sealed, ancl
the book is delivered Jto him that is
not learned ; and he saith, I am not
learned. Wherefore the Lord siUd :
Forasmuch as this people draw near
me with their mouth and with their
lips do honor me. .

Therefore, behold I will do •'mar-
vellous work among this people>eten
a marvellous work and a wonder,
for the wisdom of their wise men

shall perish, and ihe understandinsr
^t *u..:_ _„..j i __^.. «: 11 1 . 1 rp

of the earth and they are the ten
thousands of Ephraim and they are
the thousands of Manasseh, Isa. 18:
1-2, Woe to the land shadowing with
wings which is beyond the river
Ethiopia that sendethambpssadors by
the sett, even in vessels of bulrushes
upon the waters, saying g») ye swift
messengers, etc. Isa. .5: L'6, and he
will lift up an ensign to the nations
^m far, etc. . It is upon Ephraim's
Iftnd it is to be lifted up. Then the
truti^pet shall sound forth. It is the
Bt of salvation which shall sound
in th^land. Hos. 8: 12. T hove
written
of my

First the prophet goes to work to tell
us that there will be a tinie when the
voice of God will not speak to tjie
children of men, etc. Has this pro-
phecy been fulfilled ? It has, instead
of the true church coming down from
heaven we have had about 100
churches. That shows that the vision
ba.s been withheld and "without the
vision the people perish." 'When did
God have a people on the eorth that
He did not speak to them ? The dark
shall Dttss awav. When the

vision snail pass away. ^

book waft given to the learned man to

„ , .. , - »^ad, he soid : I cannot, because it is

U-phraim thegreat things sealed, then it was given to an un-

.ut they were counted as learned man and he ^d, I am not

a strange thW. I find a prediction learned. Therefore God said He

and the signs brthe prophecy fulfilled, would read the prophecy. Then He

If you (Cannot s^^anything in this I said, forasmuch as thfSe mouths, etc.,

;caii. These passa^medn something. I will do a marvellous work among

now *!^/k *• r! -^ *'' 'T* y**" ^"^ He did it. Some win say*

jow, for^the time hah. gone.past for why doesn't it prosper ? * Did Wi

the prophecy to come.V Isa. 29: 9, word evj^r prosper? Isa. 29: 24.

atay yourselves^ and won^^r cry ye " They oTso that erred in spirit shall

J^^l """^ ' l!!^^ *''® dnihken, but come tJundirstanding, and thoy that

SttTSoT^^ '' ^ '' ;vy T °!i °!^^ «h>meam dootri,^ . H w

■£' ^'.■■':

J ■'

mt Ooat»BttLttERtON DBteAti

wonderful work. I pray that God
loaj bkts you all.

Time. expired., i

'^ MR. COOPER'S CLOSING REPLY:

fv-'

y-:., '

Bx:'

Mft. Ohairhak, Ladies and GEirrLK
Mm, — I rise uot only to close the dis-
ouMion of this proposition but the
disou8«ion which has now continued
for eight evenings. We have had ex-
eeedingly good order considering the
great crowds that have attended.
' My opponent and his friends are
, irexed because I did not follow him as
he rambled through the iiible. How
can the Book ot Morjuion i>e proved
from the Bible when the Bibiu »ii}.s
not one word about it? My trieud
quotes £zek. 37: ld-26, and explains
' the sticks there^ by cluitniug thut one
has reference to the Book ut Moniion.
That text is claimed by diUereut little
•eete. Prince Michael, 1 1 hink, claims
one of the sticks, and when he get^
out of prison my friend here, Air.
Leverton, and he may settle the mat-
ter between them. I could explain
it/ the text but I shall not waste tTIe
time now, only to tell you that that
passage has not one iota to do with
' the Book of Mormon or Joseph pmith.
I do otot find one thing about Latter
Day Saints in the Bible. I do tind
something about an apostacy in the
last days. 2 Peter »: 1-8, "This
know also that in the laet days peril-
ous times shall come. For men shall
be loyers of their own selves, covet-
•Qos, boasters, proud, blasphemers, dis-
obsoKent to parents,' unthankful, uur
holy, without natural affection, truce-
briMdcers, fcdi»' accusers, incontinent,
.^ k ff oe ^d es pi s ers of tho se th a t are good,

traitors, heady, higbminded, lovers of

Eleosiire" more than lovers of Ood.
laving a form of Godliness but deny-
ing the, power thereof, from such turn
away, for of this sort are they which
creep into houses, and lead silly wo-
men, laden with 3fns, led away with
divers lusts." This passage describes
Jue Smith and the hideous system of
Mormonism exactly. T do nOt "wish
to say that it, so far as polygamy is
concerned, applies either to my opp<ment
or hisfollowers here, butit doesdesoribe
the wretched Mormon Polygaraist (tys-
tem introduced and practised by Jm
Smith, the prophet my opponent fol*
lows. Did not Joe Smith introduce
celestial marriage, and the system of.
spiritual wiferv, and of sealing wives
for eternity who were married to other
men? Do not the Mormon Elderi"
and Bishops of Utah go into houses
ai}d lead silly women, laden with sins,
deeper still into sin ? I see then no'
Latter Day Saints but a Latter Day
Apostacy. And it fits Joe Sm^th find
his polygamist system exactly. My
friend wonders that I should attapk
character, and he tells you that evil
things were said of Christ. The difier-
eiWe in ^his case is v hat was said of
Cliri^t, >vas false, utterly untrue. What
wets said of Joe Smith and the other
witnesses to tHe Book of Mormon, wiIiIB
true, too true. Christ challenged the
Pnarisces to convict him of sin.
When my friend refers to John Wes-
ley, and says that he was tried in a
court, etc , he knowi^that nothing wos
charged against him but some small
complaints, such as refusing the sacra-
ment to one who had not made a prb-
per preparation for it according to tbe
rules of the Church of England. ° At
least he ought - to know it. Christ
said, " Ye shall knovr them by their
fruits," and by this test Smith and
the witnes.ses to the Bopk\ of Mormon
entirely fail.
I will uuw review . the qiiMlkm |m

*i--\- .'

?J*'»

tHE tJooPER-LEVBRTtoN i)IlfeAtB.

. briefly as poMible. I showed you that
Solomon Sipaulding wrote a novel
oaUed the "Manuscript Found." That
Sidney Rigdon stole the M8. and in-
troduced portions of iScripture into it
from the Bible. That Joe Smith and
Rigdon met. Smith gets a box o!
plates and a revelation and-pretehds
to translate. Ue got the stQllli. man-
uscript from Rigdon and with it', sit-
ting behind a blanket <with his eyes
peering into his white stove-pipe hot,
with a little stone ttwfb he stole from
the children of Mr. "Gftase, that i«
knpwn as the Peek stone, he simply
pretended to translate.

My friend came here to prove that
the Book of Mormon is of equal au-
thority wi^ the Bil.le. "We have
proved that it hod a ^ase human ori-
gin and was fabricated as a fraud to
deceive. My arguments being true,
and they are, my opponent's must be
false.

By seventeen of the most competent
witnesses I proved that Solomon
Spaulding wrote and was the author
■ of the historical "portion of the Book
>of Mormon. I will now show you
that in more than twenty features tho
Spaulding uoVel and the Book of lii or-
ation correspond. The plot- of the no-
vel was the same as that of the Book
of Mormon. Spaulding's novel pur-
ported to be a history of the abori-
S'nos of America, so does the Book of
orison. It attempts to account for
the antiquities of Americjii, so does the
Book] of Mormon. The novel ossum-
«d thfiit the Israelites were the ances-
tors of the North American Inuians,
so does the Book of Mormon. It said
the Israelites left Jerusalem, so does
the Book of Mormon. It said they
left to escape divine punishment, so
says the Book of Mormon, They
journeyed through and from Southern
Asia by land and sen, so says the Book
at Mormon, r Th» leaderg in Stwittld-
ing't novel vwtre luuned 17eplu\and

Lehi, so they are in the BdoVof Mor>
mon. One Laban was muoderKl (o
obtain records. They quarrelled and
divided into two nations called Nmh
hites and Lamanites, so they did in
the Book of iiormon. They had ter-
rible wars. They buried their dead in
great heaps after the battles that can*-
ed the great earth niounds, this cor-
responds with the Book of Mormon.
In two instances the end of th«M
wjpirs was the total annihilation of all.
but one, who escaped to make a record
of the final catastrophe, so says th*
Book of Mormon.. These sole eurvjif
yors finished the record of the peopj*
and buried it, so says the Book
of Mormon. The Spaulding MS.
gave an historical account of the civ-
ilization, laws, customs and sciences of
those ancient people, this the Book of
Mormon {irefesses to do. One party
of these pebple weie the ancestors of
tho North American Indians. Tfais k,'
what the Book of Mormon says. The
names Nephi, Lehi, Laban, iMoaki,
>ephi o I^iuianite. Mormon, Moroni,
Amlicite, etc., were in Spaulding't
novel, 80 they are in the Book of Mor*
mon. The use and characteristict of
these names in the novel were preoiM-
ly the same in the Book of Mormom
The novel was written in Bibla styliu
so is the Book of Mormon.

"Now it came to pttss," etoi np*
peared so frequently in Spaujding't .
novel that it made it ridiculous, ao
those phrases make the Book of Mor>
mon ridiculous. The origitaal frcwi
which the manuscript was translated
was taken from the earth (that ii,
So omon Spfiulding pretended to do go
but he really did not), so are the pvi*
tentions of the Book of Mormon.

In the Spaulding n^el one |»rtj
of emigrants landed near tho Istbtttit
of Panama and imigrated in^ oorih*
eily direction, so says the N^k of

Mormon. Jfhe^land near UmiCI

waaeallodZan^omln, fo it ii e^fl^

^'^^r],

...jt-i^^smm-

.,1 .; V" * •»=

:vl

Mt J int OOOPIR-LITKHTOK DM Aft.

tlie Book of Mormon In » bettl. bww hrMor^ «'"«^»"^ ,*;;;?2Si

Wf^ the AmHcit«. and Umaniie. Roman letters .nvert«l ^^P^^^ "JJ;

oae party n»rk«d their forehead with waye. wero arranged in f^^J^fj^;

arX.^ to distinguish them from column, and ^''« ;»;?^« JSf « J^" jj

their enemie.. 80 we find it in the "^^^f ^•''"•*''°" "'* "^'^'^fj^^^^

Book of Mormon. The destruction various <««P»'-*™\"'^ .^'^J'r ^^^

of the nations exterminated « took r'«"r^'t?«*" 'Cnrr^Tbr

place near a hill called Cummorah. so after the Mei^ican calendar given by

the Book of Mormon has it The Humbo t ^ ^ .u«„.. ,i--*r4ririMt

Spaulding manuscript could h»ve b«.n This is Prof. Anthon s j^^^

ttSd i a fraud to Seceive people, an of the scraw). It is somewhat diftr-

S.S>n, a pretended Relation, ent from thit given by my «•»<!•

m B^k of Mormbn has Wn >o There uiied to be a «;rawl at Kirt

i^uooK 01 i, f land and Nauvoo It is now m Utah.

We exarpitiid my opponent's twelve It i« a facsimile of a coupl* of Uiies

witniwL Joe Smith, a robber of hen or oo^ftmns of the^wntings on the

^TS^J-^Hpr getting money under platei^' There »- ^f^^r^l^^" "^

JSTprtJlinces, with his P«el stone, 64 of them are our alphabets or num-

SnS a $l"006 for defrauding the als ^nd marks o«.^P«'»«*'«^j; P^TJ

p«,ple at Kirtland through his Wild i^ / unilsual positions^ The whote

Sat bank, the author of Celestial Mar- t^ng too transparent a «r»«d to ^

rit«e,ap;iygamiet. By sixlgrfive wit- ;<^ive any buMWoraat I l^m^

SJSi we pmved that L was a thief, out some of l^eblunde™ of the J^*^

VKar and a hypocrite and entirely but my time being hmitod not one m

^WthTof confidence We proveS »!.? hundre4 that may be found m the

that the next three witnesses to the bodk.

divine origin of the Book of Mormon,
Martin Harris, Oliver CowdeiT and
David Whitmer, were liars, forgers
and counterfeiters. That the remain-
ing eight witnesses: Celestial Whit

The tiintoriral part of the Book of
Mormon is ii^enfrom Mr. Spauldinff's
novel. Th/s is so certain that the
futile eflfoirts of Mormons toVjgver
their tracks by getting out a cheap

inseiffbt witnesses: ^jeiesuai *> mv- vuw. «.»,.^^ ,v.," f "" »,* . «.,,^-;
mfr. Hiram Page, Jacob Whitmer, edition oi a little P^yit^**; P^^^
T^'a^i.u „ TP«Lr Whitmer. Hv- inir to be the Bpanlding_ manutcnp

Joe Smith, sr., Feter Whitmer, Hy-
rum -ftmith, John Whitmer, Sara
Smith, were incompetent and not to
be relied upon.

We drew your attention to the con-
tradiotory and absurd! statements ae
to the plates. Joe Smith gave Martin
fluris a scrawl that he said was 4
fao-simile of some writing on the
platea. Harri« took it to Prof
Anthon^ of New York City'. Prof.
Anthon describes it : " It was indeed
• ringnlar scrawl. It consisted of all
Uiids of crooked characters; disposed
in oolumwi, and had evidently been
pnpared bj (fome person who had be-
hk him at ibe time, a book oontain-
iac TMsoni alpliabsts, OrSak and He-

i. "■ -^ - .-V ■

w It uv««^ t^'"W' Bh^~ 'a »

ing to be the Ijpanlding manuacript
is apparent. This liJbtle book is not
the S^ulding inanuscript, but this
big Bw)k of Mormon is (holding up
the B6ok of Mornion.) the religious
portion of the Book of Mormon waa
stoleh by RigdOn and Smith f irom w*
Bible. You will find Isa. 11, U, 21,
48, 50, 62, 64 ; Mai. 3 ; Matt. 6, 6,
7 ; p Cor. 13, and many Other chap-
ters taken out of the Bible. One-
eikhteenth of it is taken by chaptor^
©^twelfth by paragraphs, one eighth
bi phriiseB and all the ideas ezoept
ligdori's sermons.

I ei4>lained to you the meaning of

A ^rd Mormon. My qpponant^ on

littthori ty of h i s modt^ior, who

-v^i^;

T81 0OOPBR.LBV1RTON DlBATft

lendiovUr
ided in •
llvid«d In
kfid with
lily copied
given hj

IcMriipfdon
bk»t diflbr-
friend.
I at-Kirt
V in UUh.
« of lines
^ on the
loien ftnd
B or num*
ton placed
'he whole
md to de-
t pointed
' the book
(lOt one in
>und in the

e Book of
Spauldina'i
I di«t the
i toi'y jgver
It a cheap
at purpoft-
manuacript
look is not
t, but thii
holding up
lie rdlifloue
ormon wa»
,h from th«
11, U, 21,
Mfttt. 5, 6^
other chap-
Uble One-
»y chaptent,
, one eighth
deaa ezoelpt

meaning of
ppoment, on

to be a Oreek scholar, aiyR I
[wrong. I>t us see, I liav« Liddle
Seott's unabridged Oreek-Biigliah
>n with me and if there Is a
ik scholar here let him come and
line it.' The word Mormon it
simplf the Greek word anglicized. It
if defined to mean hufl;l)ear, hobgoblin,
a hideous she-monnter used by nurnon

111

matters with him. To aoeomoiodale
him I oonaented to do so. Artiekt
of agretiinent were drawn up and
sign d. . , '

What we have said is before yba.
You are the jury. As wise men and
women judge ve what we have said.
"Prove all things, hold fast that
which is good." May all attain to a

to frighten ohildrwii with^ (Mr, knowledge of the truth and to the

Cooper here exhibit«d n cliart with liberty of the soni'of God.

tlM word in Oreek uharnctf^rsniwl ilie F entertain, toward my opponent

definition of the word to lli« audience und thosii who think aH he does none

and HMkiNl Mr. MillH, tii«> chainnan, to but the kiiuiest of feelings. If I have

look at the lejticon and hvu it' the de utted language that at times seemed

flnition was correct, which he did, de- strong or harsh it was not from Anv

daring that M r. Cooper gave the cor- ill feelings toward him or them. It

reel deflnition of the word.) It is was because the truth demanded it.

aitraage that my friend and his moder-
ator," with the lexicons before them,
will jNursist in denying the meaning
and origin of the word Mormon.
Book of Mormon nieann Iniok of hob-
^blj^s, bouk of bugbears, book of
hideous she-monsters ti> friglitvn child-

ren with.

Inclosing this diHcussion T de!iir« to
thank the chairman fur the uniform
courtesy and iriipaitiulity with which
be has prasided over nil the nessionsof
this jdiacuBsion. 1< desire uIhu to ex-
press my hearty thanks to the nudi-
dent^e for the constant anil faithTul

Not once during the entire debate
have my feelings been roused against
my opponents. He once aooused ne
of falsehood, but having made the
proper apology for it I close this dis-
cussion with perfect good will toward
him, hoping that Uod will lead us
into all truth and finally to the
tl^t " had no .ilb#d of the sun, neil
of the moon, to j^hine in it; for
glory uf God did lighten it, and tl
Lamb is the light thereof. And the
nation of them which are saved shall
walk in the light of it." As evidence
that I l:avp no hard feelings toward

•V

v.*. .

■ t

attejidance of so large a number and my opponent I o<iw most cordially (4-

for the patient and courteous hearing fer him my hand.

you have accorded uie and my oppou- Here Mr. Cooper and Mr. Le^ertfiD

•Ht ' cordially shook hands. '

' Fjor ten months previous to this de- A hearty vote of thatlks Wl

bat0, I preached here in Tilbury twice by Mr Cooper, seconded V>

n day to my congregation and iii that erton, and tendered N.

Jbinie said not one word against Mor-
monism or any other depomination.
I believe in peace and, never preach
against other churches from, my pulpit
I do not think it rig|it to do so. I
did not seek this debate, It was

■ forcefl upon nw. I was followed on
the streets and a.<4ked to delmte. Mr.
Levertott-visited tlvo parsonage twice

barrister, for the able ai^i
manner in which he hod pi
the seesions of the debate

VOTETAKBN.

According to the tei
ment, N. Mills, Esq , chai
if the auclicnce desived
merits of the debate by

md challenged, me to discuss thes* of \Qte, vote, came from

M-

m-^

'■h Ik'

THB ooorwBrUnnuitoiB dbbate

_ W«lt«r Ofcrtifi^ wid J. S.
A Wiit^ appointed to count the

^ sad declare the result. .Tho«e

who Ihottght Mr. Levertoii hud proved
lilt ptopo ri tioni and uvorthruwu hia
i|| fppOMnt'e were Mked to vote first,
b I with the result thnt mmo twelve or
persons voted for Mr. Leverton,
lily » nutnlMsr of bb own people

J vote. Those who conclutied

kt Mr. Cooper hed completely oven
roWB the arguments of Mr. Lever-
>MlibMied hisowu positions, .
I Mked to vote, whun nearlt
tlKJiennrt of some six huna-
Ir lavor of the arguments
ll |w Mr. C<joper ^iiJdst the
IfMromifT" and applat^eTyrhe
like vast audience voted
It a dozen Mormons, who
voting one way or an-
iiras such an enthusios-
•t unanimous show of
Jr. Cooper that those
count sat down without
If 'tmf attempt to count the

in a few well chosen

.^, his sincere i hanks

9I die audience to Messrs.
.,pJ4 Xeverton for the rare intel-

^^, tfeat enjoyed in listening to

t eir very able presentations of what
'I|i|loh Mteemed to Ite the truth.
r .' Th» audienco wos dismissed about
^ lld^olock p.m., apparently woll pleased*
wttfck tlie di^cuteion. Those who pre-
'.wrangle ond that no good')
put of the debate were
appoin^d as the disput-
ed the debate throughout
I courtesy of manner nnd
cores expressed the opin-
good -would come out of
desire to have it put
lus secure it in perman-
|wa9 to meet 'this dosire
>n was printed.
act that Mr. Cooper
'9jbA had his matter

^■0 prepared that he kiet bo |(t«9 ii
presenting his argumente his M0tm$
opprar mtch longer when in wr*- th«l
those of his opponent, who freq entlv
lost lime in looking up quotalioi i and
.on some occitsions did not occupy the

time allott<'d to him.

pWpMMOQ

/ '-».'

(The end.)

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