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'mii^:m?i.m^'^ i-^*."! «■'►-«.>«;, ■^; : •> K?:: ,««*••» ■1 POLITICAL DEBATES. ■ ' •• ■ ' ' -• ■■■ -y V. ... -■^ - •* Upon the wbdle^ J will heg leave to tell the Houfe •' what is really my opinir'» : jvfr'):au fin JJ>/ .V .t'v'a ;K4i 4*% ,^.\j .t^ -uiu^xii ■ -K W •» -" ., »,7X«i --^-'^ -*^^ ,tJ.1 rffy v';*'- 1 1 • ••■I- -A li) t^ViV^^-- ^1t^ n^ MM ■H I lilillMl ■■r Political Debates* IT is neceflary to inform the reader, that fome time before the meeting of parliament, a re- port had been artfully propagated, that the miniftry had changed their minds with regard to the Stamp-A6t, and, inftead of repealing, were tefolved to enforce it. If it could be proved^ that this reporcdid not come originally from the favourites of a certain northern nobleman, yet ie was certainly much indebted to them for its pro* grefs, which was fo great as to affect the ftocks. ■~^ts^ -' The king's fpeech to the parliament on the 14th of January, 1 766, gave fome colour to the lug- geftion ; but when the gentlemen had fpoke who moved for the addrefs, and who feconde.! it, no- thing could be clearer, than that the miniftty per- fifted in their intention to promote the repeal. The friends of the late miniftry applauded the king's fpeeeh, and approved o; the propofcd ad- drefs, which, as ufual, only recapitulated the ipeech. ' , \ <- . ; '■ . .-^ . . *' ■ l( -. ^■. ^.*.^>. .11 The oppofition rook great offence at the tender- nefs of expreffion, that the two fir(t gentlemen had made ufe of concerning America. Mr. Nu^r^nc particularly infifted, "That the honor and dignity of the kingdom obliged us to compel the execu- ,>i B tioa Si ( 2 ) tlon of the Stamp- Aft, except the right was atf* knowledged, and the repeal folicited as a favour: He computed the expence of the troops now cm- ployed in America for their defence, as he called it, to amount to nine-pence in the pound of our land-tax; while the produce of the Stamp- A<5t would not raife a fhilling a head on the inhabi- tants of America; but that a p,pper-corn, in ac- knowledgment of the right, was of more value, than millions witiiout. He expatiated on the ex- treme ingratitude of the colonies ; and concluded, with charging the minirtry with encouraging peti- tions to parliament, and inftrudions to members from the trading and manufadturing towns, againft the Aft." Mr. Pitt was the next fpeaker. Every friend of his country rejoiced to fee him again in that houfe, and more fo, in fuch perfed health. As he always begins very low, and as every body was in agitation at his lirfl: rifmg, his introdudlion w^ not hearci, 'till he faid, " I came to town but to- day ; 1 was a ftranger to the tenor of his majefty's fpeech, and the propofed addrefs, 'till I heard them read in this houfe. Unconnefted and un- confulted, I have not the means of information ; I am fearful of offending through miilake, and therefore beg to be indulged with a fecond reading of the propofed addrefs." The addrefs being read, Mr. Pitt went on : — " He commended the king's fpeech, approved of the addrefs in anfwer, as it decided nothing, every gentleman being left at perfeft liberty to take fuch a part concerning Ame- rica, as he might afterwards fee fit. One word only he could not approve of, an earlv, is a word that does not belong to the notice the miniftry have given to parliament of the troubles in America, In ( 3 ) In a matter of fnch importance, the communica- tion ought to have been immediate : I fpeak not with refpeft to parties -, I ftand up in this place fingle and unconnected. As to the late miniftry, (turning himfelf to Mr. G— -He, who fat within one of him) every capital meafurc they have ta- ken, has been entirely wrong ! " As to the prcfent gentlemen, to thofeat leaft whom I have in my eye, (looking at the bench where Mr. Conway fat, with the lords of the Trea- fury) I have no objedlion j I have never been made a facrifice by any of them. Their cha- radcrs are fair ; and I am always glad when men of fair chara6ler engage in his,majelty's fervice. Some of them have done me the honor to alk my poor Opinion, before they would engage. Thefe will do me the juftice to own, I advifed them to en- gage ; but notwithftanding — I love to be explicit — 1 cannot give them my confidence •, pardon me, gentlemen, (bowing to the miniftry) confidence is a plant of flow growth in an aged bofom : youth is the feafon of credulity i by comparing events with each other, reafoning from effefts to caufes, mechinks, I plainly difcover the traces of an over- ruling influence. > . "There is a claufe in the acl of fettlement, to oblige every niinifter to fign his name to the ad- vice which he gives his fovereign. Would it were obferved ! — I have had the honour to ferve the crown, and if I could have fubmitted to influence, I might have ftill continued to ferve j but I would not be refponfible for others. — 1 have no local at- tachments : it is indifl^ercnt to me, whether a man was rocked in his cradle on this fide or that fide of the Tweed. — I fought for merit wherever it was to be ^ ^ found. I •.' ( 4 ) found. — Tt is rny boafl:, that I Wvis the firft n^iniftcr who looked for it,and I found it in the mountains of the norih. I culled it forth, and drew it into your ferviCe, an hardy and intrepid race of men ! men, who, when left by your jealoufy, became a prey to the artifices of your enemies, and had gone nigh to have overturned the (late, in the war be- fore the lalh Tliefe men, in the Jaft war, were brought to combat on your ^ide : they ferved with iidelity, as they fought with valour, and con- quered for you in every part of the world : de- teftt 4 bti the national refledlions againft them ! — - they are unjuft, groundlefs, illiberal, unmanly. When I ceafcd to fervc his majcfty as a minifter, i.t y/as not the country of the man by which I V/as moved — but the man of that country wanted WISDOM, and held principles incompatible with F^j:i:DOM. _^ ,^' J _ ; „ _ .. • ^^^ Ii is a long time, Mr. Speaker, fmce I have Attended in parliament. When the refolution yras taken in the houfe to tax America, I wa? jU in bed. If I could have endured to have been fcarfied in my bed, fo great was the agitation of iny mind for the consequences ! I would have fo- Jicited fome kind hand to have laid me down on this floor, to have borne my teftimony againit it. |t is now an afl that has pafled — I would fpeak with, decency of. every aft of this houfe, but 1 fnuft beg the indulg,€r)9e pf the houfe to f^eak of \}.M (rP^^P^r .;:,; ij; '^^.t i^a h^^i^,-u^o t%>. ■,^x Jh\ ■*% *• thope a d'ay linay be Toon appointed, to con- sider the ilate qf the nation with refpecfl to Ame- rica.— I hope, gentlemen will come to this debate >vith all the temper and impartiality that his ma-, kjly .refommends^ ^nd the importance of the fub- ■ ' ■" -^ icfl .J42tfOl J ii ( 5 5 jcft requires. A fubjed of greater importance tlian ever engaged the attention of this houfc ! that fubjeft only excepted, when near a century 3go, it was the queftion, whether you yourfelves were to be bond, or free. In the mean time, as I cannot depend upon health for any future day, fuch is the nature of my infirmities, I will beg to fay a few words at prefent, leaving the jullice, the equity, the policy, the expediency of the aft, to another time. I will only fpeak to one point, a point which feems not to have been generally un- dcrflood — I mean to the right. Some gentlemen (alluding to Mr. N — t) feem to have confidered it as a point of honor. If gentlemen confider it in that light, they leave all meafures of right and wrong, to follow a delufion that may lead to deftrutHion. It is my opinion that this kingdom has no right to lay a tax upon the colonies. Ac the fame time, I afiert the authority of this king- dom over the colonies, to be fovereig; and fu- preme, in every circumftance of government and legiflation whatfoever. — ^They are the fubjcfls of of this kingdom, equally intitled with your- felves to all the natural rights of mankind, and the peculiar privileges of Englifhmcn. Equally bound by its Jaws, and equally participating of the conftitution of this free country. The Ame- ricans are the fons, not the baftards of England. Taxation is no part of the governing or legiflative power. — The taxes are a voluntary giff and grant of the commons alone. In legiflation the three eftates of the realm are alike concerned, but the concurrence of the peers and the crown to a tax, is only neceflary to clofe with the form of a law. The gift and grant is of the commons alone. In ancient days, the crown, the barons, and the clergy pofTcfled the lands. In thofe days, the ba- rons » i n «ii r jiii I •/, ■ — r III li , \n ( 6 ) Tons and the clergy gave and granted to the crown. They gave and granted what was their own. At prefent, fince the difcovery of America, anl other circu-nftances permitting, the commons are become the proprietors of the land. The crown has divefted itielf of its great eftatcs. The church (God blefs it) has but a pittance. The property of the lords, compared with that of the commons, is as a drop of water in the ocean : and this houfe reprefents thofc commons, the proprietors of the lands ; and thofe proprietors virtually rcprefent the reft of the inhabitants. When therefore in this houfe we give and grant, we give and grant what is our own. But in an American tax, what ido we do ? We, your majefty's commons of Great-Britain, give and grant to your majefty, what ? Our own property ? — No. We give and grant to your majefty the property of your ma- je(ly*s commons oi America. — It is an abfurdity in terms. — *' The diilinflion between legiflation and tax- ation is efTcntially neceflary to liberty. The crown, the peers, are equally Icgiflative powers with the commons. If taxation be a part of fimple legiflation, the crown, the peers have rights in taxation as well as yourfelvcs : rights which they will claim, which they will exercife, when- ever the principle can be fupported by power » " There is an idea in fome, that the colonies are virtually reprefented in this houfe. I would fain know by whom an American is reprefented here? Is he reprefented by any knight of the ihire, in any county in this kingdom ? Would TO G©D THAT RESPECTABLE REPRESENT TATION WAS AUGMENTED TO A GREATER NUMBER ! '.n T ( 7 ) >i«MBER 1 Or will you tell him that he is rcpre- iented by any reprefentative of a borough— a borough,' which perhaps no man ever faw — This is Vtrhat is called, the rotten part of the consti- tution. — It cannot continue the century — If it does not drop, it muft be amputated. — The idea of a virtual reprefentation of America in this houfe, is the mod contemptible idea that ever en* tered into the head of a man — It does not defervc a lerious refutation. .. ' *' The commons of America, reprefented in their feveral aflemblies, have ever been in poflef- fion of the e}Cercife of this, their coniiitutional right, of giving and granting their own money. They would have been flaves if they had not en- joyed it. At the fame time, this kingdom, as the fupreme governing and legiflative power, has al- ways bound the colonies by her laws, by her re- gulations, and reftridlions in trade, in navigation, in manufaftures — in every thing, except that of taking their money out of their pockets without their confent. •' Here I would draw the line, ^am ultra citraqtie neqtiit conjiftere reSlum, »> He concluded with a familiar voice and tone, but lb low, that it was not eafy to diftinguirti what he faid. A confiderable paufe enfued after Mr. Pitt had done fpeaking — Mr C-n--y then got up. He faid, " he had been waiting to fee whe- ther Liny anfwer would be given, to what had been advanced by the right honourable gentleman, rc- fervlng himielf for the reply i bu*- as none had been ^iven, he had only to declare, that his own fenti- ments !■. I t « ) ftients were entirely conformable to thofe of ihH right honourable gentleman-— That they are fd conformable, he faid, is a circumftance that af- fc(5ls me with moft fenfible pleafure, and does me the greateft honour. But two things fell from that gentleman which give me pain -, as whatever falls from that gentleman, falls from fo great a height as to malce a deep impreflion.— I muft en- deavour to remove it. — It was objcfted, that the notice given to parliament of the troubles in A- merica was not early. I can aflure the houle, the firlx accounts were too vague and imper-^ fcft to be worth the notice of parliament. It is only of late that they have been precife and full. An over-ruling influence has' alfo been hinted at. I fee nothing of it — I feel nothing of it — I 4if- claim it for myfelf, and fas far as my difcern- ment can reach) for all the reft of his majefty*s minifters. Mr. Pitt faid, in anfwer to Mr. C — y^ « The excufc is a valid one, if it is a juft one. That muft appear from the papers now before the houfe." In the interim, Mr. G— lie had recovered himfelf. He avoided meddling with the do(5trine of taxation being confined to the houfe of com- mons, and being founded on the free gift of the colleftive body, through the medium of their re- prefcntativcs •, neither did he attempt to defend the virtual reprcfentation of America •, but began with cenfuring the prefent miniftry very feverely, for delaying to give earlier notice to parliament of the difturbances in America. He faid, " They began in July, and now we are in the middle of January ; lately they were only occurrences, (the word ufed in the king's fpeech on the 17th of December) they are now grown to difturbances, to tumults, and riots. I doubt they border on open rebellion ; and if the doftrinc I have heard this 'day be con- firmed. •T-%' Ifrmed, J fear they will lofc ttiat namcf id tgtcl that of Revolution. The government over theirt being diflblved, a revolution will rake place in A-* metica« I cannot underftand the difference bc-^ twcen external and internal taxes. They arc th^ fame in efJedi, and only differ in name. Tha^ this kingdom is the fovereign, the fuprtiive kgiC- lacive power over America, is granted. It c^rif hot be denied ; and taxation is a part of that fpi* vereign power. Ic is one branch of the leg;ifla'' tion. It is, it has been cxercifed, over thofc whiE3> are not, who were never reprcfentcd. It is exer*' cifed over the India company, the merchant? of London, th6 proprietors of the flocks, and over many great manufaduring towns. It was cgcei- tifed ovet the pialatinate of Cheller, and th^ foiflioprick of Durham, before they fent any re.- jjrefentatives to parliament. I appeal for proqif* to the preambles ot the ads which gave thenri ^ff preftntatives : the one ih the reign of Henry yilt0 the other in that of Chari6s IT." Mt. Q-^\k %htj$ quoted the statutes exactly, and defired thftC they might be read; which being done, he rCf fumtd hiiS difcourfc : ** When I propofed to tax America, 1 afked the houfe. if any gentlem^^ would objed to the right ; I repeat^Jdly afked ii;, and no man would attempt to deny it* Piote^ipii and obedience are reciprocal. Great Britain pro- teds America; America is bound to yield obo- dience. If not, tell me where the Americans wcrp emancipated ? When they want the protcdioq gf this kingdom, they are always very ready to alk if. Thar, protcdion has always been afforded them i|i the moil full and ample manner. The nation hw run itf If into an immenle debt to give them their protedion ; and now they arc called upon to coo- tribute a fmall fhare towards the public cxpence, C an 1 ff. I !l'!V cr« is his peculiar merit to America ? If they are not, he has mif- applied the national treafures. I am no courtier of America, I ftand up for this kingdom. I main- tain, that the parliament s a right to bind, to reftrain America. Our legiflativc power over the colonies is fovereign and fupreme. When it ceafes to be fovereign and fupreme, I would advifc every gentleman to fell his lands, if he can, and em- bark for that country. When two countries are conneftcd together, like England and her colo- nies, without being incorporated, the one muft neccflarily govern. Ihe greater muft rule the lefs ; but fo rule it, as not to contradift the fun- damental principles that are common to both. *• If the gentleman does not underftand tlie dif- ference between internal and external taxes, I c^n^* not help it ; but there is a plain diftinftion be- tween taxes levied for the purpofes of raifing a re- venue, and duties impofed for the regulation of trade, for the accommodation of the lubje.d; al- though in the confequences, fome revenue might incidentally ariie from the latter. : ;; -, ; .1 The gentleman afks, when were the colonies e- ' mancipated ? But Idefire to know, -when they were made flaves ? Bur I dwell not upon words. When I had the honour of ferving his majefty, I availed my- icflfof the means of informatioPjwhich I dcrivedfrom , my ' ill ■ m ( n ) my orHce : I fpeak therefore, from knowledge. Mf materials were good. I was at pains to colle6t» to digeft, to confider them, and I will be bold t® affirm, that the profits to Great-Britain from the trade of the colonies, through all its branches, is two millions a year. This is the fund that carried you triumphantly through the laft war. The cftates that were rented at two thoufand pounds a year, threefcore years ago, are at three thoufand pounds at prefent. Thofe eftates fold then from fi^ teen to eighteen years purchafc ; the fame may be now fold for thirty. You owe this to America. This is the price that America pays you for her pro- teftion. And (hall a miferable financier come wick a boaft that he can fetch a pepper- corn into th« Exchequer, to the lofs of millions to the nation \ I dare not fay, how much higher thefe profits may be augmented. Omitting the jmmenfe increafe c£ people, by natural population, in the northern co^ lonies, and the migration from every part of Eu- rope, I am convinced the whole commercial fyftemi of America n.ay be altered to advantage. You have prohibited, where you ought to have encouraged ; and you have encouraged, where you ought ta have prohibited. Improper rcftraints have been laid on the continent, in favour of tJie iflands. You have but two nations to trade with in Ame- rica. Would you had twenty ! Let ads of par- liament in confcquence of treaties remain, but let not an Engli(b minifter become a cuftom-houfe officer for Spain, or for any foreign power. Much is wrong, much may be amended for the general good of the whole. Does the gentleman complain he has been mif. Jeprefented in the public prints ? It is a com- fnon misfortune. In the ^panifli affair in the laft var, I was abufed in all the news-papers, for hav- ing .1 h:» I t6 ) irtg advifed his majefly to violate the laws of tii tions with regard to Spain. The abufe was irt- duftrioudy circulated even in hand-bills. If ad- tTiiniftration did not propagate the abufe, admi- nistration NEVER CONTRADICTED IT. I will Hot fay what advice I did give to the king. My advice is in writing, figned by myfelf, in the pof- fefTion of the crown. But 1 will fay, what advice 1 did not give to the king : I did not ildvife hinol to violate any of the laws of nations. " As to the report of the gentleman's preventing in feme way the trade for bullion with jthe Spa- niards, it was fpoken of fo confidently, that t own I am one of thofe who did believe it to be true. fer tni cc w ■i ■' The gentleman muft hot wonder he was not contradidtedj when as the minifter, he alTerted a( right of parliament to tax America. I know not how it is, but there is a modefty in this houfe which does not chufe to contradict a minifter. I wifh gentlemen would get the better of this mO- defty. If they do not, perhaps, the collective body may begin to abate of its rcfpcdt for the re- prefentative. Lord Bacon had told me, that a great queftion would not fail of being agitated at one time or another. I was willing to agicate that at the proper fcafon, the German war : my Germanf war, they called it. Every feffions I called out, has any body any objections to the German war ? No body wouW objeCt to it, one gentleman only excepted, fince removed to the upper houfe, by fucceflion to an ancient barony," (meaning lord Ic Defpencer, formerly fir Francis Dalhwood j) he told me, *' he did not like my German war." I ho** noured the man for it, and was forry when he was turned out of his po(t. A great s ** A great deal has been faid without doofs, of the jjower, of the ftrength of America. It is a topic that ought to be cautioufly meddled with. In a good caufe, on a found bottom, the force of this Country can crulh America to atoms. I know the valour of your troops. I know the (kill of your bfficers. There is not a company of foot that has jferved in America, out of which you may not pick ; ft man of fufficient knowledge and experience to hiake a governor of a colony there. But on this • jground, on the StJlmp-A(ft, when fo many here iwill think it a crying injuftice, I am one who will Pup my hands againit it; ** In fuch a caufe, your fuccefs would be hazar- dous, — America, if flie fell, would fall Hkc the mg man. She would embrace the pillars of the are, and pull down the conditutton along with cr. Is this your boafted peace ? Not to fhcatb he fword iii its fcabbard, but to fiieath it in the owels of your countrymen ? Will you quarrel ith yourfclves, now the whole houfe of Bourbon united againft you ? While France dilturbs our filheries in Newfoundland, embarralfes your ave trade to Africa, and with- holds from your bje^s in Canada, their property ftipulated by b'eaty *, while the ranfcm for Manillas is denied hy Spain, ahd its gallant conqueror bafely tra- lluced into a mean plunderer, a gentleman, (colo- iiel Draper) whofe noble and generous fpirit would .|J*a:n!| 'ncN I S, ' * ' •' j ^[i^U. w,' iviryiH •mr. ■ kitt ^ iitxy-r M .i-O'J ■)«: rv ?*:«, Hn n.' b»f>s 3on uvJs ^ »'»:.-! hymb ;^!i.' rr r y.i t». ■»/».' OVi; u f^>r !au». -f- •1 *. A \- 4 A' f '.' 1 r- • ... ._ ^i. ■fail ■^^•'^1 I -4