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 »■■• 
 
 
 REPORT 
 
 OF THE 
 
 CONFERENCE ON CHRISTIAN UNITY 
 
 HELD IN THE CITY OF TORONTO 
 
 Jlpril 24tK cLn.fl S5tH, 1889 
 
 BETWEEN DELEGATES APPOINTED BY THE SUPERIOR COURTS OF THE AHGLICAN, 
 
 PRESBYTERIAN AND METHODIST CHURCHES. 
 
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 TORONTO ; 
 
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 1 1 
 
CONFERENCE ON UNIO 
 
 N 
 
 OFFICIAL MINUTES 
 
 Lkcturk Room, Assooiation H 
 
 \u.. 
 
 Toronto, 24tli April, 1HS!». 
 
 The Comnut^ees of tlie Anglicin, Methoilist an.l 
 
 Presby erum Clu.rche-,, appointeJ hy their respective 
 
 bodies o consider the p-ssibiht? of union bet^veen 
 
 them heUl a joint meeting this evening at ei"ht 
 
 On in. tion of the Rev. Dr. Mc Mullen. Mo lerator of 
 the General .Xs.soinbly ..f the Presbyterian Church 
 SBComled by the Rev. Dr. Williams, '(}eneral Super- 
 intendent of the Methodist Church, the Ri>d t Rev 
 erend the Bishop of Toronto was called to the"" chair. 
 
 The meating was ^(jiistituted with devotional exer- 
 cises the chairm ui offering prayer, and being assisted 
 
 D^ M^u;,?''- ^^-l^'"^*". R«v. Dr. Mo..re, and the 
 Rev. Dr. Williams. 
 
 Short addresses were then delivered by the Ri dit 
 Reverend the Bishop of Huron, Rev. Dr. Sutherla'nd 
 and the Rev. Principal Caven. 
 
 It was agreed by the C.mference that the meetin<'8 
 shouM be private, and not open to the -eneral t.ublic 
 no re[.orter» being allowed to be j.resent, but that a 
 report of the meeting should be prepared for the I 
 l.ress by three secietaries-onc to be chosen from each 
 ot the churches represented. 
 
 It w,is further agreed that an ..tficial report of the 
 Conference should be [.reserved, to be taken by the 
 Secretary of His L .rdship the Bishop of Toronto and 
 supervised by the said secretaries, and which should 
 bo the j..rit property of the bodies represented. 
 
 The following were then appointed joint secretaries 
 in terms of the resolution adopted, namely, the Rev 
 John I eiirson. Rev. Dr. E. B. Ryckman and Mr. W b' 
 McMurrich. 
 
 Mr. W. B Mc.Murrich was appointed tlie General 
 Secretary of the Conference. 
 
 The roll of names was called, the followin.^ answer- 
 ing to their names as present : 
 
 AV(iLicAN CiirR,n_Right Reverend the Bishop of i 
 loroat.). Right Riiverend the Bishop of Huron, Rj.rht 
 Reverend the Bishop of Niagara, Roy. (anon cTi^. 
 wall. Venerable Archdeic.n R ,.^ R^y. Dr. Carry 
 Rev. J. Pears-.n, Rev. A. .1. Bn.ughill, Rev. J. Lan^' 
 -7, ivev. oepiimus Jones, Venerable Archdeacon 
 
 Boddy, Venerable Archdeacon Dixon, Rev. VV J 
 Alackenzie. R.-y. (Janon Sutherknd, Rev. E ' p' 
 
 Crawford Rev. A Spencer, Rev. J. W. Burke, Rev" 
 Jrovost Body \ ery Rev. Dean Carmichael, Rev. 
 
 Canon Ri.hardson, Rev. G. C. Mackenzie, liev. Dr 
 
 Mockridge, Mr Clarks<.n Jones, Mr. W. Ince, Mr. R. 
 
 Fl'h H yV V^; ^'>:'"«"d, Mr. V. Crunyn, Mr. Geo. 
 
 fc-lliott, H,.n. Judge Macrionald, Mr. R. T. Walkem. 
 
 I ^I'^^llt'T' ^"""^'"-^^y-^r. A.Carm^u, Rev. Dr 
 J A, JVilhams Rev. Dr. E. B. Ryekma-., Rev. Dr 
 t.. B. Harper Rev. Dr. N. Burwash, Rev. Dr. E H 
 Dewart, Rev. Dr. A. S^utherland, Rev. Dr. W. I. Shaw," 
 D x^'- R: ^- Sutherland, Rev. Dr. J. Gardiner 
 Rev. Wm. McDonagh, Rev. Dr. C. Stewart, H.m. j' 
 (^. Aikins, Judge Jones. 
 
 PKE,sBvrERrAN CHumn-Rev. Dr. Reid, Rev. Dr. 
 
 D.^'vA't' i,^"'- P'-^^^'"^' i^^^- !>»■• Cochrane. Rev. 
 Di. McMulhn, Moderator of the General Assembly ; 
 Rev. Dr^Iroudfoot, Rev. Dr. Moore, Rev. Principal 
 
 for/"u r' T I'"r^' ^''ix"^'*^'^. '^«-. George Ruther- 
 ford, Mr^ LW Johnston, Hon. D. C. Eraser, Dr. 
 h laser. .Mr. W. B. McMurrich. 
 
 His L .rdship the Bishop of Toronto opened the 
 proceedings by giving an historical account of the 
 movemetit and indicated some of the points that 
 iniglit be taken up and considered. 
 
 On motion duly made and seconded, the Rev Mr 
 Langtry was asked to address the conference, and 
 before he proceeded to do so the Bishop of Toronto 
 on the suggestion of members, gave an outline of the 
 ra.a tors discussed by the members of the Committee 
 ot the Anglican Church. 
 
 The discussion that ensued on " Corporate Tnitv " 
 was taken part in by the Rev. .1. Langtry and Rev C 
 otGwart. 
 
 On motion made and seconded, the followin<' mem- 
 bers were appointed a committee to prepare a list of 
 subjects f..r discussion at the different sessions, and 
 report the length of time to be given to their dis- 
 cussion, VIZ the Rev. Septimus .Jones, Rev. Princi- 
 pal Caven, Rev Dr. Carman, Hon. Judge Macdonald, 
 Hon J. C. Aikins and Mr. W. B. McMurrich 
 
 The Co!<fer!Mi 
 
 morrow. 
 
 .1 ; 
 
 uicet at iO a.m. to- 
 
 3^»S 4 
 
OKKICIAL MIN[TTES OF THE 
 
 Lectike Room, Association Hall. 
 
 Toronto, 25th April, 188!). 
 
 Tho joint committee resumed its Bittins^a at ten 
 o'clock. 
 
 On motion of Rev. Septimus Jones, seconded by 
 H<m. J. C. Aikins, the Kev. Dr. McMullen was ca'led 
 to the chair. 
 
 The Conference was constituted with devotional 
 exercises, the Scriptures beini^ read by Kov. Dr. 
 Sutherland, ami prayer offered by Rev. Dr. Cochrane. 
 
 Rev. Septimus .Tones presented the report of the 
 special committee appointed in terms of the resolu- 
 tion pa-isod at the last meeting, whicli was adopted, 
 as follows : — 
 
 REPORT. 
 
 "Your committee ap[)ointed to prepare and submit 
 an order of proceedings for this Conference, beg to 
 recommend as follows : — 
 
 "1. That the Conference close on this day, the 25th 
 April. 
 
 "2. That we meet from 10 a.m. to 12.30 p.m. ; from 
 2.30 p.m. to (i p.m., and from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m., and 
 tha* the chairman be chosen in rotation from the 
 several delegations. 
 
 " 3. Having carefully considered tho list of subjects 
 sugi^ested for discussion by this Conference :. 
 
 '• (a) Corporate Union. 
 
 " {b) Amount of unity in doctrine, worship and 
 modes of action between the three bodies. 
 
 "(c) The Holy Scriptures. 
 
 " ((/) The Creeds. 
 
 " (e) The conditions of administration of the Sacra- 
 ments. 
 
 " (/) The Historic Episcopate. 
 
 " We would respectfully and unanimously submit 
 tiiat in our beat judgments the objects of our gather- 
 ing will be more effectually farthered by, after dispos- 
 ing of the subject of ' Corporate Unity,' taking u[i, 
 in the first instance, the second topic proposed, 
 namely, ' The amount of unity in doctrine, worship 
 and modes of action between the three bodies.' 
 
 " The publication of these points of agreement will 
 have the effect of turning the minds of the church to 
 this matter and of fostering a desire for unity, and 
 also of strengthening their faith in the ultimate 
 accomplishment of a unity according to the mind of 
 Christ. In the gradual growth of this desire and of 
 this faith our hope of a happy ultimate issue must 
 under God mainly depend. 
 
 " Such precious truths may need long and patient 
 cultivation, and will be best promoted by waiting con- 
 tinually upcm God while we obediently follow the 
 leadings of His hand. 
 
 sessions be opened with reading of the Holy Scrip 
 tures and prayer, and would further suggest that 
 speakers be heard from each delegation in rotation. " 
 
 The Conference then proceeded with the incjuiry 
 into the <(uestion of " Corporate Unity," the follow- 
 ing memVjers taking part therein : — Rev. Di'. Cochrane, 
 Rev. Dr. Dowart, Rev. Provost Body, Rev. F'rincipal 
 Caven, Rev. Dr. Sutherland, Rev. Dr. I'roudfoot, 
 Rev. Dr. Mockridge, Rev. Dr. Williams, Very Rev. 
 Dean Carmichael, Rev. Dr. Laing, Ven. .Archdeacon 
 Roe, Mr. Elliott, Rev. Dr. Carman. 
 
 TheConferenco then took U[> the consideration of the 
 question of "The amount oi' unity in doctrine, worshij) 
 and modes of action between tlie three bodies.'' The 
 subject was introduced by a paper read by Very Rev. 
 Dean Carmichael. 
 
 The Conference adjourned at 12.30. 
 
 " Wa n;<iiil,l fiirH. 
 
 ur t.£ii^(~km (tiait 
 
 A tl. 
 
 Lkctcrk Rooii, Association Hall, 
 
 25th April, 1389. 
 
 The Joint Committee resumed its sitting at 2.30 p.m. 
 
 On motion of Rev. Septimus Jones, seconded by 
 Rev. Principal Caven, the Rev. Dr. Carman was called 
 to the chair. 
 
 The Conference was constituted with devotional 
 exercises, the Rev. Dr. Dewart reading a portion of 
 Holy Scripture and the Rev. Dr. MacLaren offering 
 prayer. 
 
 The en()uiry into the second t?)pic under the con- 
 sideration of the Conference when it adjourned, was 
 resumed. 
 
 The discussion was participated in l)y the following 
 members: — Rev. Dr. Laing, Rev. Dr. Reid, Rev. Dr. 
 Carry, Rev. D. G. Sutherland, Rev. Principal Caven, 
 Rev. Mr. Mackenzie, Rev. Dr. McLaren, Rev. Septi- 
 mus Jones, Rev. Dr. Ryckman, Ilev. Dr. Sutherland. 
 
 The secretaries were appointed a Finance Commit- 
 tee to settle all claims against the Conference for use 
 of room and reporting proceedings. 
 
 On motion of Rev. Provost Body, seconded by 
 Rev. Dr. Sutherland, it was resolved. That the secre- 
 taries be recjuested to send to the Toronto papers such 
 a full outline of the proceedings as they shall think 
 desirable. 
 
 The Conference then took up the consideration of 
 the third topic, "The Holy Scriptures," and a very 
 valuable paper was read in this connection by the 
 Right Rev. the Bishop " Huron. The discussion was 
 particijiated in by the i.^v'. Principal Caven, Rev. Dr. 
 Gardiner, Rev. Dr. Laing, Rev. Prov(jst Body, Very 
 Rev. Dean Carmichael, Hev. Mr. Caswali. 
 
 The Conference then took u]) the consideration of 
 the fourth topic, "The Creeds." The subject was 
 introduced by the Rev. Provost Body. 
 
 Tu„ n ..,£„. ,., 4.1, i; 1 _i. _;.. ..'_i„_i- 
 
rONFEUENTK ON rXToN. 
 
 i 
 
 I 
 
 Lecti-ke Room, Assotiatiov Hall, 
 
 25th April, 1H89. 
 
 The-IointCmmittee resumed its session at ek'htp tn 
 Oil motion of Rev. Dr. Cirman, seconded by Rev'. 
 
 Professor McF.aren, the Ri.:,'ht Rev. thu Bishop of 
 
 JViagara was called to the chair. 
 
 The Conference was constituted witii devotional 
 exercise the Rev. E. P. Crawford readini^ a portv.n 
 of the Holy Scriptures, the Rev. Dr. Reid eL^mna 
 in prayer. fi o js 
 
 • J'^f^Coof'^rence then proceeded with the enouirv 
 into the fourth topic, "The Creeds," the following 
 taking part: His Honour .Judjze Jones, Rev Or' 
 Maclaren, Rev. Thomas Sedtrwick, Rev. Prof .Mc- 
 Laren Rev. D. fj. Sutherland,^ Rev. Principal Caven, 
 Rev. \V. J. Mackenzie, Rev. Dr. Proudfoot, Mr. 
 Dymond, Uev. Dr. Sutherland. 
 
 OwiriK to the non-arrival of the paper of the Rev 
 
 f" .f*nT'"!r^'' ";!'" "''''* ^" '^^^^ introduced the next 
 topic, Ihe Conditions of Administration of the Sac- 
 raments, the same was passed over. 
 
 The Conference then proceeded wi^h the en.iuirv 
 into the sixth topic, "The Historic Episcopate " Fhis 
 subject was introduced by the Rev. Dr. Carry Owim' 
 to the lateness of the hour, no discussion on the paper 
 took place. ^ ^ 
 
 Moved by Rev. Dr. Moore, seconded by Mr VV 
 Ince, and resolved. That the secretaries be authorized 
 to prepare a careful statement of the proceedings of 
 this Conference, and that this lo printed under the 
 authority of this Conference for the use of the mem- 
 bers exclusively, and this statement should contain all 
 the papers discussed and minutes relative to it 
 
 It wat agreed that the paper of the Rev. Dr. Carry 
 should not be pubished in the newspaper report. 
 
 Moved by Rev. S. Jones, seconded by Rev. Dr 
 Caven, Ihat wo desire to record our devout thankful- 
 ness to Almighty (J.hI that we have been led thus to 
 assemble together, and we would acknowledge the 
 l.leasure and profit which we have derived fronf inter- 
 course and communion with one another, and beinu 
 convinced that such meetings tend powerfully to pro- 
 nH.te and visibly dovelope the spirit of Christian union 
 we trust that similar conferences may continue to be 
 hekl from time to time, and we undertake to recom- 
 mend to our several churches the appointment of 
 delegations for that purpose. 
 
 Moved by Rev. Prof. McLaren, seconded by Rev. 
 Dr. Sutherland, That the cordial tlianks of this 
 Conference are due and are hereby tendered to the 
 secretaries for their faithful and valuable services. 
 
 ^k'^c^^'* l^"^ remarks from the Rev. J. Langtry and 
 the Ri^/ht Rev. the Bishop of Huron, ^ 
 
 Dean Carmichael moved, seconded by Judge Jones 
 That (he thanks of this Conference be tendered to thJ 
 Right Rev. the Hishop of Toronto, the Rev. Dr. Mc- 
 Mu len. Rev. Dr. Carman and the Right Rev. the 
 Bishop of xNiagara for their services in presidin- over 
 the various sessions of the Conference. 
 
 After parting words from Rev. Principal Caven and 
 Rev Dr. Williams the Doxology was sung and the 
 Conference closed with the Benediction pronounced 
 by the chairman. 
 
 W. BARfLAY McMuRRICH, 
 
 General Secretary. 
 
OK TMK 
 
 CONFERENCE OF COMMITTEES 
 
 OF THK 
 
 CHURCH OF ENGLAND AND PRESBYTERIAN AND METHODIST CHURCHES 
 
 ON THK 
 
 SUBJECT OF UNITY. 
 
 The Conference began its first session on the even- 
 ing of 24th April, 1889, at eight o'clock. 
 
 On motion of Rev. W. T. McMullen, D.D., modera- 
 tor of the (Jeneral Assembly of the Presbyterian 
 Church, seconded by Rev. Dr. Williams, general 
 supermtendent of the Methodist Church, the Bishop 
 of Toronto was called to the chair. 
 
 His Lordship the Bishop then led in prayer. Rev 
 Df. Pyckman read 1 C^r. xiii. , and Rev. Dr. Moore 
 and Rev. Dr. Williams followed with j)rayer. 
 
 It was then decided that the Conference would be 
 well begun by an address from a representative of 
 each Church upon the spirit in which the Conference 
 should meet together. 
 
 The Bishop of Huron began by saying. My lord, and 
 brethren in Christ, I cannot but feel that in onler to 
 grasp the importance and deep value of the present 
 gathering, we are to take it out of the human and 
 place It in the divine sphere ; not to look ui)on it as a 
 gathering brought about by this body or bv that ; not 
 by the accidents of life, nor even by the desires of so 
 many earnest Christian men— but rather as a move- 
 ment of the Holy Ghost, leading us in His own <iuiet, 
 gentle way— leading us to the advancement of God's 
 glory and the building up of the kingdom of His dear 
 Son. Let lis look upon it as something of God, '.He 
 is the potter and we are the clay), that He has brought 
 us together, that it is His work, that He is iie 
 mighty mover of us all. 
 
 I would also say, in the next place, let us remember 
 that all power, as well as all goodness, dwells in Hiiu, 
 and that there are no limits to His grace. We are 
 straitened in ourselves, hut wo are "not straitened 
 in Him. I can kneel down and say, " Lord, Thou 
 knowest ; not 1 , but Thou canst make the path throuidi 
 the deep waters ; Lord, lead us, ' and He will accom- 
 
 I would say, in the next place, let us remember 
 that the Lord Jesus Christ is Himself wrapt up in 
 this movement. His glory must be dearer to Him 
 than it IB to us. We see through a glass darkly, but 
 His eyes do behold what is best, and I can imagine 
 that blessed One in our midst as He was when He 
 met the disciples after His resurrection, and said, 
 "Peace be unto you." Now, if that dear, blessed 
 One were corporally present, how would our dissen- 
 sions go ! How we would press up to Him, and say, 
 like Thomas, " My Lord and my God." As we were 
 drawn to Him, we would become one. We would 
 seek at his hands the solution of every difficulty, and 
 in His presence become one again. The secret of all 
 unity is a growing nearness to the Lord Jesus Chr st. 
 As the radii come nearer to the centre they are nearer 
 each other, and it is just as we are nearest Christ that 
 we love each other most, and bear most each other's 
 burdens. Churches that are far from Christ can 
 never he near each other, but just as the whole cor- 
 porate body comes near the living Christ, it comes 
 near in its integral parts to the whole and to each 
 other. 
 
 I would say, too, let us remember that the Lord 
 Jesus gave as His dying prayer that we all might be 
 one. That is before us. It is before us, and has 
 been before the Church for hundreds of weary, weary 
 years. It is before us now. What we want to do is 
 to become one -not in some distant or abstract sense 
 —but really (,ne, corporally one, one with a oneness 
 that the world may see, that we may present our unity 
 in Christ as a tangible, outward, actual fact, cognizable 
 by the world which knows not our Lord. 
 
 And let us remember that it is His prayer. If it 
 is His prayer, it is His desire. If it is His desire, it 
 IS the mode in which He will act. . If it is the mode 
 in which He will act, it must be attainable And if 
 It IS attainable, it is clearly and evidently before us. 
 
ri;(»('i;r,i>iNt;s ok cunkkkknck 
 
 Liii us r.Miiornl>er Hint ("liriHt h.is pniyod that we 
 luiKlit 1)1' Miio, iiiul wln'ii Mo spoke of tlio unify Ho 
 explHiiifd, •■ KvoM lis TIk.u, Father, art in mo ami I 
 in Thfc. ("ciildany unity ho more cloar and iiidi 
 viHihIo than tins' and it istlim unity that wo wish t.. 
 nvv. It in thin unity wliicli wo wisli tu have felt. 
 
 And, t.^ ciiucludo, thr Holy (Jh-.st ha« IIl-^ mission, 
 and among tho many works of tht; Holy Spint is to 
 testify of Jesus Christ. And that Holy Simit is with 
 us. His workin.; is with us. I am not i^oihl; to touch 
 upon those .piestioiis which are ahout to arise. I will 
 merely conclude with this, that the Holy (Uiost is 
 seekingas He ever has .soui,dit to advance tho L,'lory 
 of the Kedoeiuor, and in advancins,' the Lilory of the 
 Redeemer Ho must and ever will he willing' to promote 
 this Ltreat work of creatiiiL,' unity am()nt,'st tlio varKuis 
 soctKUis of the Church of C'hrist. Let us [iray, let 
 us work, hut ahove all let us helieve that it will be 
 accouiiilished. 
 
 Kkv. 1)k. ^iirnEKL.v.M. said : I am sure that we all 
 feel dee[ily iiuprcsaed with the sole unity and the im- 
 portance of this ijatherini,', a kcathonng which in its 
 compoHition and its purpose lias scarcely a i>arallel in 
 the history of the Christian Church, and 1 think we 
 may regard it as an indication oi that ^'l•o wing spirit 
 of unity and brotherly regard which is i.eing mani- 
 fested in the ('hriatian world. It has not been an uii- 
 coiuiiioii thing in tho [lasi to formulate e.xcuses, if 
 not reasons, tor divisions aii.ongst Christians, which 
 l)erhaps the deeiiest dictates oi coiiscionco could not 
 very well justify, hut 1 think we have all seen that in 
 recent times there has been a growing disposition to 
 look at this matter more in the liglit of tlie Master's 
 teaching and loss in tho light of human oxpodioncy. 
 I think we must all have felt this, that within the 
 nieniory of men now livin,' the attitude of ditierent 
 Christian bodies has changed, and has changed for 
 tho better. I supipose most of us can remember a 
 time when it would not be ajpoaking too strongly to 
 Bay that the attitude of varioi;s Christian bodies 
 towards each other was almost one of antagtuiism. 
 That gave place to a sinrit of general toleration. I 
 tuiiik to-day that it is deepening into a feeling of mutual 
 aiipreciation, and that there is a disposition rather to 
 tiiul in how many things we agree tlian in how many 
 tilings wo ditler. I am sure we all feel the force of 
 the words sp' ken by the Bishop of Huron, and if 
 this inovomoiu boot man it will of course come to 
 nought, and the sooner it comes to nought the better 
 if it IS really of man, but if it comes of (iod then we 
 cannot but fool how grave are our respiuisibilities and 
 how deep is the solemnity of this hour. I feel per- 
 suaded i)ersonally that this Conference, if it be 
 conducted with the brotherly spirit with which it has 
 begun, must result in good to tue cause of the Church 
 of Christ at large. Just how far wo can advance few 
 of us know as yet. Perhaps no one is (juite prepared 
 
 with detinito proposals. I feel that if we can exchaujjo 
 discuasion of this ma'ter there will b(! a growth of the 
 spirit without which no union would be of any gooil. 
 If we cm pr.uiioto that .s|)irit wo shall have accoin- 
 plishod a great li'al. I tool that this is tho spirit with 
 which wo have come together here, and I may ataiiro 
 this Conference 'Ui the part of tho body I ruproacnt 
 t!iat wo are prepared to maintain a prayerful attitude 
 that tlie Holy Spirit may guide us, and [irepared to 
 follow the leadings of ( lod's [irovidence in whatever 
 direction those leadings may be, and I join you and 
 all the other members of this Conference in the prayer 
 that a stronger bond may exist between us than when 
 we came together. 
 
 llEv. P HI. \. II' A I, C.vvEN said : .1 is not nocessary 
 that I should say anything' more than exprosi niy very 
 hearty assent to the words that have boon used by 
 the Bishop of Huron and by Dr. Sutherland. Of 
 course, if any one thinks that tho divided state is 
 better than unity, he would take very little interest 
 in this movenieiit. Of course, there are men who say 
 this, and wo have often heard the expression used of 
 various regiments and departments of service in an 
 army all united to constitute the army, and making 
 that army more ethcient than if it were one body. 1 
 venture to think tliis is a false conception of the 
 Christian Church, and that no one who has entered 
 very thoroughly into the words of our Lord's inter- 
 cessory prayer Would be satished with such a condi- 
 tion of the Church. Whether it would bo on the 
 whole bettor that the entire Christian Church all over 
 the world should be closely united in government so 
 as to constitute, in a very direct sense, an .-Ecumenical 
 Church, is a (piostion I do not need to answer ; but I 
 am sure of this, that it is not the right thing, it is 
 unseemly and improjier, that ,ve should have had 
 organizations of Christians on the same territory all 
 [irctending to represent the Church of Christ. I do 
 not desire to commit any member to my own view, 
 but tho conviction I express is very deeply engraven 
 on my own mind. Therefore, I think it is a wise and 
 proper thing to .seek after unity in the Church of 
 t;hri3t, and I cannot doubt that the spirit of our 
 blessed Lord, the spirit of love and concord, has 
 prompted this movement. The movement was com- 
 menced by tho Church ..f England, bu, the response 
 which has como from the Methodist Church and Pres- 
 byterian Church, has not been tardv, and it has been 
 entirely cr.lial. I think tho Bishop of Huron has 
 struck the keynote of our proceedings ; that he has 
 not only spoken as one should do m a devotional 
 meeting, but that he has really pointed out the way 
 wo should really consider this (|uo8tion of union if 
 ._iny pr. .gross is to attend it. Our union must be 
 founded oil Christ. It would be very unfortunate, I 
 venture to say. if, at this our hrst meeting, a contro- 
 versial spirit should ho in the ascendant. We are all 
 
ON THi: SCK.ri'T OK IMTV. 
 
 •i 
 
 I 
 
 perfectly awarw tlmt there are matters in which we 
 
 '"»^«»"' ' ri;uMMt,>iiifc| L.tliitik ,ilike, aii'l in nhioh 
 
 we li.ive all lieeri irit.Testeil, and nn (l..ubt, an npriirht 
 
 nion, we wouM wmh t.i ii.nf.T upon the:., before our 
 
 moetiniis close, Imt, ! think, we sIkmiM first of all 
 
 have the al'itu'le ...f love r.ither than that of contro 
 
 versy. I know that in en'^aKini; in controversy the 
 
 in'ellect JA arouse.l, and the ar^'iinentative faculty ia 
 
 arous.Ml. h It 1 am Hure tliat. we are in no poaition to 
 
 conduct the argument unlesH wo imhibe the spirit of 
 
 Christ. I think if we it,, f,,rwaril in tiie spirit of 
 
 (Christ, the spirit of love, we shall attain ijood results. 
 
 \i we •,'., forward in this w.iy it will he an historical 
 
 occasion of ^reat importance. The union of the 
 
 •Yetliodist Churches, and t'le union nf H,u Presbyterian 
 
 Churches have Iilm-ii reached w.thout any i^reat ditti- 
 
 culties of doctrine or ^,'overninent, but this is a lari,'er 
 
 and more serious but not less t)le8aed enteri)rize that 
 
 we h.ive undertaken, and I trust that every one of us. 
 
 by (Jod's ^lace, will be enabled to deal courteously 
 
 with each other, ami to brini; some contribution of 
 
 love and the spirit of Christ to the consideration of 
 
 this ><reat .|Ue8tion 
 
 h was agreed by the Conference that the ineetini,'8 
 should be [irivate and not open to the tcenoral public, 
 no reporters bein^,' allowed to ho present, but that a 
 report of the ineetinj{9 should be prepared for the 
 l>re88 by three secretaries, one to be chosen from each 
 of the ('hurches re|ire8ented. 
 
 ^ It was further a'^reed that an otHcial rei>ort of the 
 Conference should be preserved, to be taken by the 
 secretary of his lordshii. tlie Bishop of Toronto, ,and 
 supervised by the sai.l secretaries, and which sh .uld 
 be the joint property of the bmlies represented. 
 
 The following,' were then appointed joint 3ecre:arie8 
 in the terms of the resolution ad.)pted, namely, tlie 
 Kuv. .lohn ['ears on, Rev. Dr. E. B. Ryckman and 
 .Mr. \V. B. McMurrich. 
 
 Mr. \V. B. McMurrich w.is .ippointed the i^eneral 
 secretary of the Conference. 
 
 riie roll of members was called, the followiny . 
 aiisweriiiLj to their names :u beiiiL,' present : - 
 
 .\n()M(:a\ Chitkch.- Ri-ht Rev. the Bishop cf 
 Pornnto, Rinht Rev. the Bishop of Huron, Ri^/ht 
 Rev. the Bishop of Niai^'ara, Rev. Canon Caswall, 
 Ve'i. .•\rchdeacon Roe, Rev. Dr. Carry, Rev. ,l' 
 Pearson, Rev. A.J. Brouiihall, Rev. .J. Lin-try, Rev. 
 Septimus Jones, \'en. .\rchd.'acon Boddy, ' Ven. ' 
 .Archdeacon Dixon, Rev. \V. .1. Mackenzi \ Rev 
 Canon Sutherland, Rev. K. l\ Crawford, Rev A Spen- 
 cer. Rev. ,1. W. Burke, Rev. Pr..vost Bodv, \ery Rev. 
 Dean Carmichael, Rev. Canon Richardson, Rev (i C 
 Mackenzie, Rev. Dr. Mockridye, Mr. Clarkson .Tones, 
 Mr. \\ Ince, Mr. R. Bayly, Mr. A. H. Dvmond, I 
 Mr. V. U-onyn, Mr. George Elliott. Hon. Jud.re I 
 Macdonald. Mr. R. T. W.ilkom. ! 
 
 MKTHoi.rsr Cm K. II. Rev. Dr. A. Carman, Rev. 
 Dr. .1. .\. Wilha-ns. Rev Dr. K. B Ry.kmaii, Rev. Dr. 
 K. B. Harper Rev. Dr N. Biirwash. R.v Dr. E. H. 
 Dewart, Rev. Dr. Sutherland, K.n. I>r. W. I. Shaw, 
 Rev. Dr. I). (}. Sutherlund. Rev, Dr. ./ (Jardiner! 
 Rev. Win. McDona.;h, Rev. Dr. C Stewart, Hon. J.' 
 *'. .\ikiii8, Judu'e Jones. 
 
 Pkkshvtkkmn Cm k.h. -Rev. Dr. Reid, Rev. Dr. 
 .McLaren, Re.-. Dr. I.iiiiLC. Rev. Dr. Cochrane, Rev. 
 Dr. .McMull.'ii, modcr.ifor of (Jeiieral XsHcmhly', Rev" 
 Dr. I'rondfoot, \i\. Dr. .Moore, Kc . . Principal 
 ('aven. Rev. Thomis Sed>,'wick. Mr. (Jeori,'.' Rutlier- 
 ford, .Mr. L. W. .Inhnston, Hon. D. C. Eraser Dr 
 Eraser, Mr. \V. B. McMurrich. 
 
 His Lordship the Bi.sHur of Toko.NTu;-! feel a 
 deep sense of the importance of tlie i,'atherinj{ here to- 
 ni<,'ht. We may say that tliis ^.itherin;,' is one (,f tlio.se 
 epochinarkin^' events which must always be consid- 
 ered as of the utmost cons '.luonc-. 1 feel not only 
 the res|)onsU)ility, but the privilei,'e and honour, of 
 presiihii'; over the urat session of this (Conference. I 
 believe that it is not simply a movement that has been 
 init-ated by mans wit or device, bi-t that it is a distinct 
 leaduii,' of (Jud's Spirit There have been indications 
 for s,)ine years of a .Irawin;,' toj^etaer of Christian 
 pei>ple, and of a sense of shame and rettret that those 
 who profess the same name and worship the same 
 Lord, and are upheld by the same faith, should so 
 loiiLT h.ive stood apart from one another. It is not 
 necessary for me— in fact, it W(iuld be infrin^in^ too 
 much upon the valuable time of tin Conference -to 
 enter at any length upon the history of the rise of 
 this movement. It would be difhcult to trace the 
 begiiuiing of it, as it is always ditticult to trace the 
 beginnini/ of any ^reat movement, but the first act'ial 
 traceable step taken leading to our gathering here to- 
 night was by a resolution pasaed a: the last Provincial 
 Synod of the Church of England in Canada at Mon- 
 treal in 18S(j. The resolution was : 
 
 '•That a Committee of this Hou.se bo appointed to 
 confer with similar Committees appointed to represent 
 other Christian bodies for the purpose of ascertainin-' 
 whether there is any p.)S3ibility of honourable union 
 with such bodies, and that the L twer House of this 
 Synod be mvitetl to appoint a Comuiittee to act iointly 
 with the Committee of this House." 
 
 A Committee was ai>pointed whose names have been 
 read out by the Secretary, and they held one or tw.) 
 meetings which have eventuated in this very important 
 and promising Conference to-niirht. I need only in 
 the briefest terms refer to the action which was taken 
 by t,ie great Conference of Bi.sho|)3 wiiich was held 
 last summer at LamSeth. A special Committee was 
 appointed by the Conference to report upon this 
 question of unity. It ai)peired that similar resolu- 
 ii:;:io ic, i.-i.u •.viiicii iiau iieen passed by the Canadian 
 
Pi;(»CKi;i»TN'(;s ov ('oxfhrknck 
 
 Church at thu Provincial tSynnd had been approved of 
 in thu United States, and by several dioeosan synods 
 in (Canada and Australia, these were all [iresented 
 to the Coniniittee of I'.ishops and. oii their report 
 beini,' presented, tlie < 'oiifereuce finally adopted a 
 resolution on the sul)jec in whic'- they expressed the 
 bidief that there was a '^rowini,' desire on the part of 
 Christian peoide, in all lands, that they niit,'ht be 
 drawn closer tof^rether in real union. F may say that, 
 as far as we are concerned, represent iui,' the Church of 
 En'.,dand to nii,dit, our powers are very limited. Wo 
 shall ha^e to make a re[)ort to the Provincial Synod 
 at their meeting in Sept.Mnber of this year. The 
 functions of the Committee do not extend beyond that 
 date. We shall then have the [ileasant duty laid upon 
 us of reiiortiuL,' to that Synod what shall have been 
 the Ljeneral resolution of the Conference. This being 
 a Conference, it possesses no legislative power. W'e 
 cannot e.xpect to effect anything in the way of leg'sla- 
 tion. All we have to do is to confer, and I think it 
 well to bear in mind that we niet't for conference and 
 not controversy. I desire to ei.ijdiasize that it is in 
 no sense a controversy that has brought us together, 
 l)Ut a conference in the spirit of Christian charity. I 
 think what we should seek is to tinil out how much 
 there is of positive truth in Christian doctrine in 
 which we all agree. I think that is one of the m ist 
 iinjiortant points that could result from a conference 
 of th's sort, to establish the largest basis of common 
 truth which we all hold. Then there are other truths, 
 matters of doctrine and matters of discipline, upon 
 which we have certain ditf'erences. With regard to 
 these, we desire to tind, if possible, if there is not 
 some way in which they may be ultimately rectified, 
 so that eventually the great hope which tills all our 
 hearts that the Church of Christ may indeed b,' one, 
 may be attained. ( )f course, unity is our ultimate ob- 
 ject, and I think I represent the views on the subject 
 of my brethren who form the Church of England dele- 
 gation when 1 say, it is with more than com[)liinentary 
 com|)lacency that we meet together ; it is with a view 
 to helping forward nothing less or short of that unity 
 which is set forth in Scripture, when it rei)reseiits tin; 
 members of the Church of Christ as members of one 
 body. It is no doubt within the knowledge of all who 
 are present that in every resoluti(m which has been 
 passed by the Church in the United States and Aus- 
 tralia, and by the Lambeth Conference, there were 
 
 certain articles agreed uiion as fori 
 
 iiiing a prol)a 
 
 b!e 
 
 basis of agreement. They are briefly " Tlie Holy 
 Scriptures of the ( »ld and New Testaments, as con- 
 taining all things necessary to salvation, and as being 
 the rule and ultimate standard of faith. The Apostles^ 
 Creed as the l)aptismal symbol, and the Nicene Creed 
 as the sufficient statement of t!ie ( 'hristian faith. The 
 two fSacraments ordained iiy Christ Himself— Baptism 
 and the Supper of the Lord ministered with unfai' 
 ing use of Ciirist's words of institution, and of the 
 
 eleiTK nts ordained by Him The Historic Episcopate, 
 locally adapted in the methods of its administration 
 to the varying needs of the nations and peoples called 
 of (;.)d into the unity of the Church. 
 
 On motion, the Rev. John Lam/try was asked to 
 aildress th- Conference, and before he preceded to 
 do so the iJishop of Toronto, at the suggestion of 
 memt -rs, gave an outline of the matters which had 
 been under the consideration of the Committee of 
 the Anglican Church. .4s these are mentioned later 
 in the Report of tlio Committee on the Order of 
 proceedings it is unnecessary to state them at t ..s 
 point. 
 
 Kkv. ..111. L.vNtiTuv, upon coming forward to speak 
 upon the ijuestion of Corporate Unity, .said : I hope 
 I am duly impressed with the solemnity ami import- 
 ance of this occasion. I si all endeavour to carry with 
 me, in anything that I may say, the spirit which has 
 been invoked for our meeting by the opening address. 
 It is very important, I think, that we should try to 
 avoid everything that will cause discussion or irritation, 
 and that we should proceed to deliberate as brethren 
 meeting here on perfectly eijual terms. I very much 
 regrjt that the duty of making the statement of the 
 views of the delegation on Unity was not entrusted to 
 some one abler than 1 am. I suppose it is only natural 
 thaf some member of the Church of England delegation 
 should be called upon to state the <d)ject of oi'r"'Con- 
 ference and the grounds up(m whi-h we hope it will do 
 good, for the honour of initiating the corporate action 
 which has i.ssued in our asseinblin,' here to-night rests 
 with us. And I suppose for the same reason it was 
 natural that I should be called upon in the presence 
 of far abler men to make the statement, as I think I 
 hail the honour or temerity of moving the first reso- 
 lution in our fVovincial Synod six years ago, that we 
 should tak«! corporate action to see what could be done 
 to restore the broken unity of the L'hurch of Christ. It 
 has been a matter of thought and prayer, I am sure, to 
 many of us foryears. 1 think that the time has arrived 
 when some definite action should be attem)ited. I .lo 
 not venture to hope that we shall accoini)lish union 
 to night, but I have hopes that our Conference will 
 leail to a friendly consideration of the subject, and 
 that as it was with the children of Israel, that when 
 they seemed to be surrounded with hopeless difhculties 
 the command came to go f(jrward : so, perhaps, difh- 
 culties which to some appear to be insu[)erable may be 
 eventually overrome. W'e ha 1 not the object of ask- 
 ing you to iiieef here for merely miking compliment- 
 ary speeches to one another, or to parcel oit the land 
 between us and arrange not to interfere with each 
 
 other's preserves. I am persuaded that if we hold 
 .111. .i;ti..»... ., _„-.-•..■ 1 11 . , . 
 
 _*"" '*:"-*" -".'u^cifi: L ;:;:;o;j v» c COuiU liOt uo tiuii. 
 
 in thinking about this matter we have endeavoured to 
 ascertain, so far as we may, what is the mind of the 
 Spirit ; not what sort of union would commend itself 
 
<»\ TlIK SUIUKCT OK INITY. 
 
 d 
 
 I 
 
 to ono or other of us. l,„t what ia the tcachin- of 
 (oMlsblosst'dSpint ia His revoak.l Wor.l al.uut this 
 <iUfst.onof I n,ty of th... Church. It .lo.ss nut iiuc-d 
 very l^nt^rthy considuratiou. It is represented to us 
 under the h-ure of a human body, the head and the 
 MieinlR-rs vanodandyet perfectly joined to^^'ther in 
 one. What we ai n at, and what wu hope to attain 
 to, IS tlie corporate union of all tiie Chri.stian bodies 
 represented here t(;-ni^ht ; and if that is acconii.lished 
 It iniL,'ht be extended to others with whom it is more 
 difficult to unite than with those present. The reasons 
 tor union are transparent. The one that is paramount 
 18, that the union in one body of th,.se who believe 
 in the Lord Josus Christ is. if I mistake not. the 
 teaciuni^ ot Holy Scripture accordin- to the will of 
 the Lord ; and 1 think that c..nsi>U'rati,)n excludes the 
 discussi.in of all opinions of exi)ediency as to whether 
 or not we ou-ht to aim at unity. It is expressed 
 in tiiat prayer, which our Lord otibred, that His dis- 
 ciples might be one. " as Thou, Father, art in me and 
 1 in liiee, that they may l:e one in us, that the world 
 may believe that Thoii has sant me." The Holy (Jhost i 
 sieakiii:,. by the mouth of St. Paul, declared thJ 
 Church of Ood to be the body of Christ, and by tiie I 
 same Spirit lie proclaimed that there is but one body i 
 as there is but One Si.int. The same inspired apostle 
 condemns divisions anions^ Christians as evidence of ' 
 the carnal mmd, and the advice t,'iven was to keei.the I 
 ' unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.' I should 
 tliink that iiu-ans a spiritual unity in that Sj-irit with ! 
 wJiich we are haiiti/.ed into the one body. He i.rays i 
 tlial all liUK toll,,wers may be i)«rfectly joined toother . 
 Ill tlie same mmd and m tlie same spirit. As Christian 
 nien this unity is for us the will of God. As the will i 
 of (.od It IS attainable by (iod's -,M,diiessand by Gods ' 
 help. It may not be attainable now, but it will he i 
 attainable m Gods unnd time. And because this is ' 
 lM>ssiblc It IS ,,ur duty to strive and to pray unceas- i 
 in-ly .md to make every effort to brinir about that | 
 result CMUsistent witii ,iur conscientious convictions 
 llb'ii there is another reason why we should aim at ' 
 the attainment .,f unity. It iH perfectly manifest ' 
 tfiat the state <if division .lubairasses, and in a ■■teat I 
 many ca.Sfs pretty well destroys, the spirit ot charity 
 uhirh uLii^dit t.. e.vist between believers in the same 
 Saviour and wurship|>ers of the same (Jod, and which I 
 -r. > ws , ,ut of a c. >uim. .ii fait h and ac .nimon brotherh, .od ' 
 and which finds its highest exercise and expression 
 in united .uts of worshij., of work, and of communion , 
 •11 the life ..f the Lord. It is all very well on plat- i 
 t"rm and in pulpit, when exchan-e is the order ot the i 
 d.iy, to proclaim that we are all one, that there is iio | 
 actual ditterence lictween us. that it does not make '■ 
 any (lilference what (Jhiirch a t'linstian man l.elouirs 
 ■■■■ : ::;■ -.v.^n;! iU.ii;V.S ii% » iiai 11 sees. it knows that 
 tlH' i.ielhreii wiio embrace one another one day in the j 
 .\ eai are ,,ii all otiier days as ea-er as ever to persuade 
 UKU that all t!ie..ther Churches are woefully wrong ' 
 
 and they wonderfully right. And the world judces 
 that there is no reality in brotherly talk which does 
 not ead men to combine in the one great brotherhood 
 ot Christ. 
 
 Another reason for unity is, that our divisions have 
 very largely overtlirown discipline, and may have a 
 very great tendency to lower the moral tone among 
 C hristians. I think we are all pretty well aware of 
 this Jn early days a man would rather have been 
 condemned l.y the heathen magistrate than have been 
 cut ..fl fr(,ni the fellowship of the Church. The 
 slightest censure of the Guurch was felt to be a 
 grievous indignity, and was in most cases followed bv 
 J speedy amendment, and by every effort to make re- 
 j paration for the injury inflicted on the cause by sinful 
 ; ,and unbecoming conduct. And the Church was not 
 slow to intlict her censures when occasion arose. But 
 j now Church censures may be passed upon individuals 
 j not hvmg as they ought to live, and, instead of sub- 
 I "I'tting, they proudly resent the interference of tho 
 Cliurch, and go elsewliere, and very often are received 
 without any scrutiny as to what has been their past 
 history. And sometimes it happens that the minis- 
 ters themselves, when condemned, have been allowed 
 t.. make their own report of their case, and have been 
 received withtmt further investigation. By this un- 
 happy lax condition of the discipline of the Church, 
 the moral tone of the community is being gradually 
 lowered and debased. Our divisions have also a very 
 constant tendency to debase doctrine and to impair 
 the completeness of the faith. You will notice a 
 tendency in the human mind, so soon as a separation 
 takes place and distinctive principles are formulated 
 to exaggerate and dwell upon difierences, or distinctive 
 principles, as we call them, and press them out of all 
 reason, until the due proportion of the faith is im- 
 pa. red in that way, and doctrines that are, perhaps 
 not very important, are represented as bein<' very 
 important. And there is another danger. It is^going 
 on all the time. It is akin to this one of which I have 
 spoken, and grows up on the other side of it. It is 
 tiiat, whatever we say, denominationalism creates a 
 certain amount of rivalry. We like to belong to the 
 successMl pi: -ty, and win as many as we can to accept 
 our ow.. n,.tionb. I have .sometimes wondered how 
 Atheists are so ready to propagate their principles, 
 tnen when tliey admit these do not make the world 
 better ; but it seems to me that this is explained by 
 the desire which men feel to win as many people to their 
 ovv notions as possible. As a result of the rivalry 
 of the diirerent bodies, there grows up, unconsciously, 
 a catering for public favour. There are certain truth^ 
 ot natural reliu'ion and common sense, which the 
 l>ui»lK'. 1 incin file ;»v«»r.ifrrt rM...;,,*;„., ,-., i ■ _ 
 
 eai lesti.ess, readily accepts. There are, however, 
 cer am .supernatural truths which He at the very n.ot 
 o Christianity, which are above reason and com.mm 
 observation, against which the secular mind rebels 
 
10 
 
 PROCKEDINCJS OF CONFKRKNCK 
 
 and wliicli the averaiju Cliristiaii is relucta'it to be- 
 lieve. Ami, unless my observation !,'reatly deceives 
 me, tliere is a constAiit aiul a ^'rowing tendency not to 
 assail, not to deny, but to dr(.|) nut of the ordinary 
 teachin,' and preachiii.,' these supernatural truths, to 
 dwli upon a few universally accepted doctrines, to 
 take as t le usual tlieuids of the Sunday discourse, 
 some practical or moral subject which wouhl not 
 ort'end a heathen philos()[)hy. It was only last summer 
 that a distin<,'uislied Toronto minister called attention 
 to the fact that his Church had no creed, that he did 
 not retjuire lay people even to believe in the doctrine 
 of the Trinity in order to membership, that all that 
 was asked of them was to believe in the Lord Jesus 
 Christ — though that one sentence, if we consider all 
 that it implies, involves a belief in the whole faith. 
 Another minister boasted that he dwelt up >n what he 
 called the central doctrines of (Christianity, and did 
 not trouble people with an elaborate doctrinal system, 
 or require them to believe in mystical or supernatural 
 doctrines. Each of these forgot that what he glori- 
 fied was his shame, as it is plainly the duty of all 
 Christians to hold and contend for the whole faith, and 
 no one can say that one doctrine is essential and 
 another is not essential. VV^e ou,'ht to guard against 
 everything that has a tendency to diminish, or to leave 
 out of our religi(m, any doctrine that has been com- 
 mitted to us. If we could get over our rivalries we 
 should not endeavour to see in how much we disagree, 
 but in how much we agree. We should be helping one 
 another to obtain a fuller knowledge of the truth as 
 it is in Jesus. If we could only attain to this sort of 
 union, the authority with which the Church ought to 
 testify, and bear witness to the truth, would be enor- 
 mously increased. We are very fond of boasting of 
 our intellectual independence, but as a matter of fact 
 nine ptople out of ten do not reach the conclusions 
 they f.jrm by independent thinking. They come to 
 them by the testimony or reaso-iing of their parents, 
 their teachers, their political leaders, or their preach- 
 ers ; and it is only in exceptional cases that they 
 develope new theories or doctrines by their independent 
 thinking, or change the religious or political creed of 
 their fathers or of their social surroundings. Hut 
 when teachers or leaders fall out by tiie way. those 
 who were thus dependent upon them frecjueutly throw 
 up in disgust the views wliich they have hitherto held. 
 Thus, whatever outward activity and zeal in making 
 converts may result from our divisions, their endless 
 contradictions and negations are causing perplexities 
 to hundreds of thousands of the most jiromising in- 
 tellects of this age. Men are saying, " Look at the 
 professors of religion. They are learned men. They 
 are many of them clever men, and yet there is hardly 
 a doctrine or practice inculcated by one .set of them 
 that IS not contradicted and ridiculed by another set. 
 Surely if the churches an<l the ministers cannot agree 
 ui)on even the fundamental truths, what can be\'x- 
 
 pected of us ! " I think the impression is bcrong upon 
 people's minds that our divisions are laying burdens 
 and forcing perplexity upon vast numbers that they 
 are not able to bear. There are, I believe, about 
 00,000,000 people in tlie United States, and the state- 
 ment went the round of the papers, a little while ago, 
 that there were less than 20,000,000 who professed to 
 belong to any religious body. What is the reason of 
 this t I should say that the reason is that they are 
 perplexed. They do not know what leaders to follow. 
 If we could with one mind and one mouth testify to 
 the truth, and if we C(juld speak as one on the great 
 doctrines that have been set forth in the universal 
 creeds of Christen lorn, it would vastly increase the 
 power of the Christian cause over multitudes who are 
 now being Itjst. Another matter is the enormous 
 gain that would come to us in a material way from 
 corporate unity. I believe both the Christian bodies 
 associated with us in this Conference to-night were 
 once divided, but are now united, and their resources 
 and aggressive power have been thereby greatly in- 
 creased. One need not reason about it, it is perfectly 
 apparent that the aggressive power of the whole 
 Christian body would be increased in proportion as 
 the latter were united, and that with unity we should 
 be able to solve many of those difficulties which are 
 now oppressing and retarding work in the Mission 
 Helds. The agreement arrived at in Japan was an 
 instance in point. Under the present divisions a 
 great deal of means and energy were lost. In some 
 places to the north many churches were found that 
 were not at all thriving, when but a few would accom- 
 plish all the work reciuired. Another matter was the 
 ed'icatiou of the children in the public schools. In 
 all its appliances it is said to be the most perfect in 
 the world, and yet, surely, the children ought to bo 
 nurtured on the sincere mik of the Word. It is 
 God's way to sanctify them through His truth. There 
 is everything in the schools that is calculated to make 
 the pupil a wisi> and successful man of the world, and 
 it is your child s fault if he does not attain >> this, 
 hut it is not his fault if he leaves scho(d without hav- 
 ing acquired any dehnite knowledge there of that 
 truth which is able to make him wise unto salvation, 
 for through our sectarian jealousies uU such teaching 
 is carefully excluded, and the schools are conducted 
 ou a principle of practical agnosticism. It is our own 
 fault tiiat wu are divided amongst ourselves. If we 
 could come t.i na agreement, thisditticulty would \an- 
 isli, and we would be able t > teach our children those 
 great {)rinciple8 ui)on which we all agree. Another 
 matter is the assistance we should derive from unity 
 in resisting the aggressions of the Iloman communion. 
 Ever since the twelfth century it had heen sought to 
 
 ^^rillLT the u^'Wes i.'f thi> i>;trf"!j !;s'.di»r Paiitil ."iinf r.-.l 
 
 Everybody can see that it woiih' ake a vast differ- 
 ence in our relationship to the mi<. jrs of that com- 
 munion- We do not want to take any steps to deprive 
 
ON THE SUBJECT OF UNITY. 
 
 U 
 
 them of their rights as citizens, but we want to main- 
 tain the eiiual ritflits uf all citizens of this great coun- 
 try. Lookini,'at the whole matter, it seems to me, 
 from every point of view, to be a most solemn and 
 important thin- that we should j,'ive our careful con- 
 sideration to the possibility of attainini,', not federa- 
 tion, but absolute union in one body under one Head. 
 I have always thought that the sixteenth century tried 
 to define too much. Detinitions were drawn up which 
 it was supposed everybody would accept, but they did 
 not accept many of them. I suppose that where 
 doctrinal differences exist we should fall back upon 
 the Nicene Creed as a first point of agreement. I 
 think with regard to the way in which public wors'iip 
 ought to be conducted, prejudices are fast dying out. 
 Some thou8;ht that it was not proper to have a litTirgy, 
 whilst others held the view that there was no proper 
 worship without a liturgy. I think we may come to 
 an agreement as to the prescription and liberty that 
 might be given on that subject. The spirit which has 
 been manifested gives me some hope that in the future 
 corporate unity will be realized. 
 
 Rev. Septimus Jones proposed that representatives 
 from each of the Committees meet together to arrange 
 the subjects for the following Sessions and the time 
 to be devoted to each of the subjects. In pursuance 
 of this suggestion, he moved. Rev. Dr. Sutherland 
 seconding, " That the following gentlemen be a Com- 
 mittee to report upon an order of proceedings : The 
 mover. Rev. Dr. Carman, Rev. Princi])al Caven Hon 
 Judge Macdonald, Hon. J. C. Aikins, Mr. W. B. Mc- 
 Murrich." Carried. 
 
 At 10:30 Rev, Dr. Proudfoot suggested that an 
 adjournment should now take place in the interest 
 <.t those who were extending hospitality to the 
 delegates. 
 
 Rev. Dr. Stewart, Principal of the Theolcxnca! 
 Department of SackviUe College, N. B., expressed the 
 pleasure which he had felt at being present and hearino' 
 the other members of the Conference, and he was sorry 
 that ho himself had to return the following/ mornini' 
 on account of engagements. He felt that Tie should"^ 
 before leaving, give a short expression of his views. 
 He said : While I very fully appreciate the practical 
 dirticulties besetting the Church of Christ at the pre- 
 sent day, I cannot quite agree with the exe<'esis the 
 gentleman who spoke on the question of (Corporate | 
 Unity has given of the utterance of Christ, " That thev 
 
 le 
 
 all might be one. ' I can conceive that there might ,c 
 such an organic unity existing with schisms in the boUy. 
 I tlnnk the prayer of our Redeemer was for the unity 
 |>t His disciples in spirit— that they, guided by the 
 
 .Spirit, should r:\ifitV:} i!:;.->-. ;.t\-..~.- .-.s !..-.. i'..^ T _'' •. 
 
 Scripture as indurating that there were"not sectional 
 divisions, but, nevertheless, there were local divisions 
 which undviubtodly meant more than merely ditier- 
 
 ences of sentiment. I believe there is a unity quite 
 compatible with differences of government, and that 
 while corporate unum might be to some degree very 
 essential to the progress of the Church of Christ in 
 some particular places, yet while the human mind is 
 what it is, and while the precedents of Scriptural 
 Christianity are what we find them to be in the new 
 Testament, I do not think we can look for a corporate 
 unity such as our excellent brother has described to- 
 night. I think there is more opportunity for Christian 
 charity in standing by each other, carrying out the 
 work of Christian discipline in our churches, and ex- 
 tending our Redeemer's kingdom. We can scarcely 
 look for the corporate unity to which the brother has 
 referred to night. I have thought it was only due 
 that I should say so before I leave this building. I 
 believe it is possible for us to promote each other's 
 interests. I believe the time is coining when the 
 world will be brought to say of Christians, however 
 they may differ in regard to their ecclesiastical re- 
 lations or their views of Church doctrine, "See how 
 these Christians love one another. See how they can 
 rise above the recogniti(m of those who are merely of 
 their own section of the Church and of their own belief 
 in the doctcine or discipline of Christianity. See 
 how these Christians can take each other's hand and 
 support each other in the work which they are doing '' 
 I should be delighted if it could be brought about in 
 the course of time that we should so far recognize 
 each other that we could exchange pulpits and^join 
 together in the celebration of the Lord's Supper. I 
 rejoice thnt we increasingly value the Scriptures, and 
 recognize the right of every man to judge for himself 
 as to what these Scriptures teach. I rejoice that we 
 are getting very much nearer together. I am glad to 
 join m those admirable hymns that have come down 
 from a period before the Reformation itself. I rejoice 
 to sing the hymns that have come from other portions 
 of the Christian Cliurch, and to know that our hymns 
 are being used by other Christian Churches. As to 
 the last subject which will be discussed, I believe 
 there has been asstronga conviction as to the absence 
 of Diocesan Episcopacy as there has been on the other 
 side. I think I speak on behalf of my brethren when 
 I say that our ministry is perfectly true and invested 
 with all authority to administer the sacraments and 
 discipline of the Church, and I think we are entitled 
 to do these things the same as the ministry of other 
 Churches. I trust that we may be led under the 
 iruidance of the Spirit into those paths of peace, and 
 harmony, and o-operation that shall tend to silence 
 the unbeliever and jirovo a stronger attraction, and 
 more effectively bring multitudes into the enj ly'ment 
 of the Saviour, than any corporate unity which bv anv 
 of us uaii be devised or ottected. 
 
 The Benediction was then pronounced by the Lord 
 Bishop, and the Conference adjourned to meet at 
 10 a.m. on Thursday, 'Joth April. 
 
IS 
 
 I'ltOCF.KDlNdH OF CONFEIiENCK 
 
 SECOND SESSION. 
 
 Tho Coiiferenco opened its second session on tlie 
 '2')ih April, at lO a.m. 
 
 It was moved by Rov. Septimus Jones, and seconded 
 by Hon. J. C. Aikins, Tliat Rev. Dr. McMuilen pre 
 side at tho morning session. Carrie<l. 
 
 Rev. Dr. Sutherland then read Epiieiiana iv., and 
 Rov. Dr. Cochrane led in prayer. 
 
 After these religious exercises, the report jf the 
 Special Committee un the Order of ProcejdiiiL^s was 
 read by Rev. Septimus Jones, and upon being amended 
 in a few particulars, was adopted as follows : 
 
 KEPORT. 
 
 " Your Committee appointed to prepare and submit 
 an order of proceedings for the Conference, be-' tu 
 recommend as follows : 
 
 " 1. That the Conference close on this day, the 2.")th 
 April. 
 
 "2. That we meet from 10 a.m. to 12. Hi I p.m. ; from 
 2.30 p.m. to (; p.m., and from (i p..n. to 10 p.m., and 
 that the churches be chosen in rotation from the 
 several delegations. 
 
 " 3. Having carefully considered the list of subjects 
 suggested for discussion by this C(jnference : 
 "«. Corporate Union, 
 
 "6. Amount of Lnity in Doctrine, Worship, and 
 Modes of Action, 
 " c. Holy Scriptures, 
 "d. Creeds, 
 
 " c. The Conditions of Administration of tho Sacra- 
 ments, 
 
 "/• The Historic Episcopate, 
 we would respectfully and unanimously submit that 
 in our best judgment, the objects of our ■'atherin<r 
 will be more effectually furthered after disposinc o1 
 tho subject of Corporate Unity by taking up in"the 
 first instance, tho second topic proposedTviz • ' The 
 Amount of Unity in Doctrine, Worship, and Modes of 
 Action between tho Three Bodies.' 
 
 "Tho publication of these points of agreement will 
 have tho effect of turning the minds of the Church to 
 this matter and of fostering a desire for unity and 
 also of strengthening their faith in the ultimate 
 accomplishment of a unity according to the mind of 
 Christ. In the gradual growth of this desire and of 
 this faith our hope of a happy ultimate issue must 
 under Christ. In the ultimate accomplishment of a 
 unity must, under God, mainly depend. 
 
 "Such precious truth may need long and iiatient 
 
 rttil f i I'll f t. .t-i ..»».! ...Ml U..~i 1 .^ ■ _ ^ • 
 
 ,". Vi ' "" "■"■", """' "^ iir. '•r.otea by v utiii'' 
 
 continually upon (iod while we obediently foil, w the 
 leadings of His hand. 
 
 "We would further recommend that each of the 
 session.s he opened with reading uf Holy Scriptures 
 and prayer, and would further suggest that .-speakers 
 be heard from each delegation in rotation." 
 
 The Consideration of the (piestion of Corporate 
 Union was tlien resumed. 
 
 Rkv. Dh. Co.hk.vnk said : I take the oi)pr)rtunity, 
 for a few moments, of expressing myself with regard 
 to the i|uestion l)rought up last evening. I regret 
 that I did not hear what I understand were very e.XL-el- 
 lent addresses by the IJishop of Huron, Dr. Suther- 
 land, and Princi^ .1 Caven. With regard to the 
 address by Mr. Langtry, I believe that the reasons he 
 gave for nrganic union I couM subscribe to from 
 beginning to end. I believe I could t:o furtlier, and 
 say that a large majority of tho Presbyterians through- 
 out Canada could sub.scribo to those reasons. As Mr. 
 Langtry has said, our peoi>le are in perj/lexity, and 
 they wonder why, when we receive members from 
 other bodies at the Sacrament, we do not come to a 
 basis of understanding. We want to be s i tilled with 
 love of each other aid the Spirit of (Iod as to be able 
 to minimize our dilfeivnces. I confess that my exoLiesis 
 of the passage referred to by Mr. Langtry aiul'Dr. 
 Stewart, goes farther than that by Dr. Stewart. It 
 may mean spiritual unity, but I do'n.jt tliink it means 
 merely that. My o|)inion is tliat tiie Lord Jesus Christ 
 intended oritauic unity as something which we should 
 attain to. We give tho right hand of fellowship one 
 to another. We moot on a common i>latform. If that 
 bo so, I see no need for going on in this way. It may 
 not he in the time of any of us : but even if it took 
 twenty years to consummate this union, we are legis- 
 lating for posterity ai^d for the good of this great land 
 of ours. Dr. Stewart said he would like to see a greater 
 measure of love ami unity ; he would like to see a 
 greater exeliange of pulpits. I would like to see that ; 
 my friend, Mr. Langtry, would probably like to see it ; 
 but before th it can come to j)ass there must bean 
 understanding with re-ard to certain matters of polity 
 very dear to iiifml)er.s of the Aiiu'lican Church. Let 
 there be an exchange of puljiKs, and the thing is done. 
 Let us see whether we cannot give up some points 
 that are far less important than coming together in 
 the pulpits. Tho practical aspect of this (|ueation will 
 weiL'h with the practical l)iisines9 men in this Province. 
 Pnnciiial Dyniond and others will understand what I 
 mean. \ dn m>t know if I s[>eak the convictions of all 
 here, but I say plainly, I believe that these ditlereiit 
 c'uirchesare spendim: a large amount of money, means, 
 and men, in assembling year after year. T have no 
 doubt that tho Hi.shops of Toronto and of Huron and 
 of Algoma and others will bear me out in saying, that 
 when we come to disburse our moiiev fc.r^in.sHi.ina. 
 often the (|UeHtion arises in Comiiiittees that we must 
 have this u'rant and that -rant because theiv is such a 
 churcli 111 that villa;,'.', and siu'li a ciiurch in the other 
 
<)\ THE sri'.JKCT OF ITXITY 
 
 13 
 
 villasre, ami w.. will 1,e drivon out if u-e don't -o into 
 .1 l-liice where tliero are not millicii-nf nionil.er.s tu sut.- 
 I"-'-t one -on, I churdi. as Mr Lun-try said. I say 
 ■v-.un. It iH a shameful waste of means an<l of money- 
 1 can si,oal< plainly, hecauae havini^ l,ad connection 
 with our missi.ms I know it comos up from time to 
 ime : and when our brethren say " We munt continue 
 hat church there because there is a Church .,f Emr- 
 land and Methodist Church there, " f say, in the naum 
 ot a 1 that IS u'ood, let tiiem uo to tlie Church of En.'- 
 lii'id or Methodist Cliurch rather than i-ive them'a 
 U'-an of money; an.l I hope I speak the feelin-s of 
 the brethren m the matter. We wdl never stop this 
 waste of means an.l m..ney unless there is more tiian 
 mere fraternity. There must be ,u-anic unity. I 
 think there was -ood done by Methodist and Fresby- 
 terian brethren in the East arran-ini. that they wouj.l 
 not i,'o Mit.) mission tields wliere the other was • but 
 J we must -o further, and have something like organic 
 union. I do not think we should press too crreatly 
 this morninLC upon the brethren of the Amdican 
 Church to tell us their views on tliis or that ..uestion 
 lime enough to come to these thin-s. Let us first .,f 
 all have an understandiiiir in re^'ard to this matter of 
 or-^anie union. Are we prepared f.,r it .' Are we 
 looking for It ' And if we decide it is a good thin., 
 and teei. as churches, it is a good thing, let us .-o .m 
 uncontrovertod points., and tlie Holy Spirit will guide 
 us into the trutli. ^ 
 
 Rev. Dk. Dkw.uit: I think we all agree that there 
 IS apecuhar simiiticance and interest attaching to a 
 gathering of this kind. I regret that any .Tf the 
 brethren who have spoken should feel it necessary to 
 disparage the ettect or result of anything short of 
 organic unioij. I believe that even if it should 
 fail in regard t.. the pnmioti.m of oneness of or- 
 gan.za ion, that the com ug together and e.xclian.'e 
 of sentiment, an, hooking each other in the face and 
 reali:^ui- that we have common interests at stake and 
 ••omm.ui loyalty to the same cmuaon Master, is' not 
 a small no- insignitieant thing Another thin- : while 
 1 hope that I would not wish to say anything to .lamp 
 the ardour of any bn.ther «ho is .san-uine on this 
 matter, a.s my friend, Dr. Cochrane, and some others 
 are, I think there .should be an honest, frank 
 expre.ssion .,f sentiment here. I do not think that < 
 a man shoiihl be tabooed ..r stigmatized because 
 he cannot come up to the high-water mark of some . 
 other brethren on the subject -and I intend, while 
 I have the kindliest feeling towards all the brethren, 
 and honour them, ami give them credit for the sime 
 sincerity as I ,laim for myself, to express my views in 
 regard to the matter with the utmost frankness- 
 
 .,"■' .•; "~ ■■•" i":"- ::; i.'ic maiii iesoiuiion was on 
 
 t le possihdity or practicability of organic uni.m. We 
 shouhi not shrink from expressing our views on that 
 I'oint. whether it may be fav.uira' " 
 
 •ai)le or unfavourable. CI 
 
 Now, I am prepared to admit that there are some 
 serious disa.lvantages from the [ue.sent condilion of 
 division. 1 fnink they are mainly two : there is 
 sometimes the development ..f a sectarian si.irit or 
 rivalry, though th.at has been somewhat magnitied 
 I think that is rai.idly passing away, and 1<'.S8 .,f it is 
 appearing all the time. That is one thin.. • and an- 
 other IS the waste of resources of men and means, to 
 which Ur Cochrane referred. Hut I hope that both 
 of these evils could be Largely, if not wholly, remedied 
 without organic union; that c -rtainly the strife of 
 swctarian rivalry and bad spirit oetween the denomi- 
 nations cannot be a necessity, ■-nd if there is any 
 such tiling, 1 think the better cure for it is to -4 
 more of the mind tiiat was in Christ, and more l.Tve 
 to (.od in our hearts, rather than to expect, if it does 
 exist, that It can be cured by mere oneness of or-^an- 
 ism. In regard to the waste of men and meairs, I 
 think a great deal couhl be done on that line without 
 formal organic union. Witli regard to the questi .n 
 Is It .lesirable .' ■ 1 wish here U, be frank, but I 
 cannot g,, so far as some of the brethren who have 
 spoKen, notably my friend, .Mr. Lan.'try • that is 
 there are some brethren, especially iir the' An<dican 
 Church, who hold a d.ictrine with regard to Church 
 organization, with regard to the ministry, with rec^ard 
 to the sacraments, with regard to the perpetwtion of 
 the ministry, that makes unity a diiferent thing to 
 hem from what it is to me. If 1 held the same vfews 
 that they li(,ld, and thought as they do on that point 
 of Church organization, and of the modes of perpet- 
 uating tlie Christian ministry, and the sacraments, 
 very like y I would have the same feeling about the 
 unity of Christendom that they have ; but I want to 
 call the attention of brethren on that line to this, that 
 they cannot expect some of us, who do not believe in 
 their view, who d<. not accept it, who do not h(,ld it, 
 to take the same view in regard to the necessity of 
 unity that those do with wh.un it is, to a certain ex- 
 tent, a doctrine arising from their conceptions of the 
 constituti.m of the Church and the ministry itself • 
 ami therefore whether it is desirable or not depends 
 on several things. It depends on the kind of a union • 
 it depends .-, the degree in which there can be unity 
 of thought and feeling on the mam lines of ( hristian 
 doctrine and discipline. Xow, I think that it may 
 be practicaole, but my idea is just this, th.at the . re- 
 sent thvisions and or-anizations lave arisen out of 
 dit.erenoes of that judmnent and lionest conviction 
 on questKms that cannot be niodihed or made very 
 small -luestions ; and that the divisions themselves 
 can never successfully pass away until there is such a 
 unity of thought and feeling „„ these subjects on 
 which we now ditler as leaves "" ..^-...o ;..'.. f,._ „ 
 division. Whenever that comes - whenever those 
 ditlerences of conviction and belief and view that 
 now give rise to these ditlerent organizations of the 
 
 iristian Church are overi 
 
 me, then there will 
 
14 
 
 PROCEEDINGS OF CONFERENCE 
 
 a means of union ; but an organization forced on, 
 even supposing that representative bodies consent 
 to it, and having jarrin;,' elements in it, and the ele- 
 ments of disorder, and tiiat was not a real unity in 
 feeling and spirit among the people so united, I do 
 not think it woidd be a desirable thing ; I do not 
 think it would he a good thing ; 1 do not think that 
 It would really promote the glory of God and the 
 good of Christianity in the way all desire ; therefore, 
 unless an organic union can come as the result of the 
 passing away of those differences and causes that 
 really are the ground of our separation now, I cannot, 
 in my judgment, see that any other kind of unity 
 would subserve the best interests of the Church of 
 Christ. Then I do think that there is a good deal 
 in what was said about the practical forms of union. 
 I am not speaking about mere hand-shaking, mere 
 sentimental talk, but standing shoulder to shoulder 
 and side by side as brothers in the same common field, 
 battling against all the enemies of the Cross of Christ, 
 heartily recognizing each other in our fields of work. 
 I do not think that is a small thing, or one to be 
 sneered at, although it does not imply organic unity ; 
 and until we are prepared to manifest practically our 
 disposition to carry out that lower form of unity that 
 consists in Christian fraternizing and brotherhood, 
 and mutual sympathy, and confidence, and recog- 
 nition, I cannot see how we are very likely to 
 jump over that without that intervening link, and 
 adopt a formal organization that will unite us as one. 
 Now, I believe with regard to any differences or diffi- 
 culties or hindrances or evils arising out of our pre- 
 sent separation, that the real cure for that is not in 
 organic union • and I must confess I do not agree 
 with Dr. Cocnra.e, in indorsing everything that 
 Mr. Langtry said. I was rather surprised that he 
 should talk about unity of organization as a means 
 of promoting unity of doctrine. Why, it is well 
 known that there is a unity of organization with- 
 out a unity of doctrine. No man knows that better 
 than Mr. Langtry ; and those that have read his own 
 articles in the public papers of Toronto, and know 
 the state of feeling here and in other places, know that 
 unity of organization has not promoted unity of 
 doctrine ; and on the other hand they will bear equally 
 emphatic testimony that there is real union of spirit 
 and feeling among many brethren who are not of the 
 same organization. 
 
 Rev. Provost Body : So much has been said with 
 which the members of the Church of England delec/a- 
 tion so heartily agree, that it is only in obedience^to 
 the rule which has been laid down that I venture to 
 clear up one or two points with regard to our position 
 m the matter. I think that it should be clearly 
 
 .......-._....... ■_::^;^ ;,•,; ;;; - ;— vj f, "J j-(; f, ,,j HJiigiaiJli Ulive 
 
 come here with a practical object, and in the practi- 
 cal, business-like way which Dr. Cochrane spoke of, 
 
 and which other gentlemen have said was the attitude 
 we occupy ; that wo have come here to endeavour 
 just to see how far we can get at that practical con- 
 sensus which Dr. Dewart says is a necessary condi- 
 dition to corporate union. That is the very object for 
 which wo have come ; and we are not here in a sort 
 of haphazard way, unprepared to go into the most 
 careful consideration of any of those [joints which have 
 been la'd before you at the outset. We have care- 
 fully considered our position, and what we can say to 
 our brethren with re.-ard to every one of these points. 
 We are only too anxious to go on so far as the Con- 
 ference may desire on any point that has been laid 
 before us— in fact any other point which is appertain- 
 ing to this subject. Then, as to this subject of cor- 
 porate union, may I say that to most of us, I think, 
 who have taken this matter up in the Anglican Church, 
 we have felt that the great stress of the whole ques- 
 tion lies upon our conviction that it is in obedience to 
 our blessed Lord's will and command that corporate 
 union should be realized. But we do not wish to lay 
 so much stress as some brethren may appear to think 
 upon consideration of all the aspects of the subject, 
 on balancing of pros and cons, of advantages and dis- 
 advantages, although, I think, our intense conviction 
 is that the advantages are of the greatest and most 
 serious character ; but the point of view from which 
 we regard this subject, from which we are anxious, if 
 we can, to get our brethren of the Methodist and 
 Presbyterian Churches to say, so far as they are able, 
 that they regard it also, is that it is our duty as 
 Christian men to set ourselves, to the very best of 
 our power, in an honest, business-like way, not to 
 discuss whether corporate union is advisable or not, 
 but whether it is our honest conviction that we should 
 at this time set ourselves to see how it can be attained. 
 That is the point of view from which the Church of 
 England delegation desire to put this matter. Then, 
 may I say, that I entirely sympathise with what fell 
 from Dr. Dewart, that it is not right to minify 
 differences. We all feel that. Why did we ask this 
 Conference, but for the very object not of minifying, 
 but of mutual conference upon differences — of seeing 
 how far we could meet one another, and seeing what 
 our difficulties are, and then seeing the best way they 
 could be overcome. Dr. Dewart thinks we of the 
 Anglican Church might minify differences in very 
 important respects. Everybody knows there are cer- 
 tain important differences, else we should not be here 
 together ; and he seems to think we ought to begin 
 by minifying differences before we begin discussing 
 this subject. I do not think that is a fair way in 
 which to put the matter to the Anglican delegation. 
 We come here in a perfectly frank way and say, 
 " There are certain things we desire to have mutual 
 conierenco upon, and are wiiiing to express our views 
 upon them all in due time." I hope I have made 
 clear what the views of our delegation are— our readi- 
 
ON THE sriiJECT OF UNITY. 
 
 15 
 
 new and preparedness to take up one by one any of 
 these subjects that are necessary to corporate re- 
 union, and also, so far as we are concerned to yield 
 , up everyth.nK for the sake of corporate re-union 
 which we do not believe our blessod Lord intended us 
 to keep. We are prepared to do that as a solemn 
 matter of Christian duty, because we d., not believe 
 that we have a right to retain .one single thing as an 
 obstacle to corporate reunion unless we have the will 
 ol the Master to determine us to retain it. 
 
 Principal Cavkn : Will you allow me to read, 
 scarcely a resolution, but some words which I wrote 
 down this morning indicating the subject as it presents 
 ; Itself to my own mind. It is hardly in proper shape 
 :l P"i ^";;'^»'"^ a» a resolution, and I do not know 
 that the Conference wishes to adopt any resolution. 
 (Heads.) While in the wise and merciful Providence 
 of God divisions in the Christian Church have often 
 been overruled for good, yet, in themselves, these divi- 
 sions are to be lamented as productive of many and sore 
 evils. The ideal of the unity of believers set forth in 
 the Scriptures -especially in our Lord's intercessory 
 prayer— while chiefly spiritual in its nature, can be 
 fully represented only in an undivided state of the 
 visible Church, in which perfect fellowship shall be 
 maintained throughout the entire body of Christ • and 
 It 18 the duty of the Church, and of all its members 
 continually, to aspire towards, and labour for, the 
 completeness of this manifested union in the Lord ' 
 1 agree with the brethren who think that the root 
 ot all union is spiritual. As set forth so impressively I 
 by the Bishop of Huron last night, the first pre-re i 
 quisite of union and unity -the condition that is 
 almost sure to lead on to perfect union-is very i 
 close fellowship with Christ. In that case we under- i 
 stand the mind of Christ. We imbibe His spirit, and ' 
 diversities cease to be exaggerated or are gradually 
 modihed by closeness of union with the Lord It ! 
 seems very clear that while this is the essential thing, I 
 and the hrst thing to be sought, yet the union which i 
 our blessed Lord w.iild have His Church enjoy, and 
 which would present the Church in the very best form i 
 to the world—" Fair as the moon, clear as the sun 
 and terrible a^ an army with banners '—must be the 
 outward union as well as inward. The human person 
 does not consist of the soul alone, but of the soul and 
 the body. Of course the spiritual comes first, but 
 tlie material is in its place necessary. S,. in regard 
 to the Church of Christ. I am very glad in the 
 preserit state of Christendom to see recognition ex- 
 tf^nded by one branch of the Church of Christ to 
 another None of the brethren present will be sur- 
 prised if I should avow my full conviction that the 
 L-huroh (if Qlifio* .4..,„, ...i. -.i •, __ 
 
 «ii\ ided state, of some one branch of the Church. I do 
 not want to disguise at all before any of my brethren 
 belief that the definition of the Church of Christ my 
 
 j gjven, for instance, in the Article of the Church of 
 England, and in the Westminster Ccmfession— and I 
 j am sure, accepted by the Methodist friends also— is a 
 , true definition, and that none of us would be disposed 
 to deny the distinctum which the reformers drew, and 
 which has been so serviceable all along, between the 
 visible and invisible Church. At the same time, I do 
 not think that we have, in the fact that we are dis- 
 posed to recognize the Christian character and the 
 Church character of persons who are not precisely of 
 our own fold, any argument for resting permanently 
 satisfied with the divided state of the Church As I 
 have endeavoured to put it in these words, we should 
 be continually aspiring towards, and labouring for a 
 complete, manifested union of the body of Christ 
 ': The Church is a family. How would it seem to us if 
 the family should be divided into two or three part*. 
 1 hey have a great deal of afiection for each other, and 
 are very kindly disposed towards each other whenever 
 , they have the opportunity— but they think it is conve- 
 ; nient to live in different houses. We should all say 
 It IB better, cerUinly, that those members of the 
 I family should speak in a kindly way to each other than 
 I that there should !><• n., recognition; but surely it 
 were better that they siiould live in one house." And 
 so m the state. There has been a great deal of dis- 
 cussion lately in regard to the proper unity that 
 should exist m the state or nation ; and the feeling 
 the belief, seems now pretty general not only under 
 monarchical governments, but even in renublice, that 
 you must have some bond which is to unite all the dif- 
 ferent States or Provinces— or whatever it may be- 
 closely together, so that they shall constitute a unit. In 
 the same way, the Church of Christ was, I think, meant 
 to be really one ; and it is unnecessary to say that 
 in our present state of things, we do not see that 
 unity. As has been said by preceding speakers, there 
 IS too much friction in the Church of Christ As 
 Mr. Langtry so impressively stated last night, our 
 difterences are made a great deal of by the unbelief of 
 the world and men say, " You must compose these 
 differences and tell us what you believe ; point out to 
 us the ground you are on, that we may consider vour 
 propositions. Now, 1 think that the sceptics are 
 very unreasonable. I think we might very properly 
 say to them. " You overestimate the differences that 
 exist between the different branches of the Church 
 of Christ We might tell them, for instance, that 
 we all believe in the same God and Father • 
 111 the same Saviour, who redeemed us by His 
 blood ; in the same Spirit who renews, sanctifies 
 and comforts us ; that our conceptions of Christian 
 morality are almost identical. We might very prop- 
 erly point them to this large measure of nnitv t.ha* 
 cAiBis. At tiie same tiiiio our attitude would bomuch 
 more efiective if this unity were better manifested, 
 because the truth is that they will not take the time 
 or pains to ascertain the amount of spiritual unity 
 
16 
 
 ri;t)('i:i:|>|N(;s of ('(iNKKltKNCK 
 
 that rt'jilly exists. Ami thou, ai^'niii, it is cloar tliat 
 thorn WDiiliI not mily lie ;i L;ri'iit :!iivin'4 of (uir ri;- 
 sniirces jit hdiiic iiud alunjid, hut wc coukl ^n forvvaril 
 ill tlio coiKnu'st <if th'' worUl with far hetter heart, 
 with fiir hi)^lu;r c(nir;ii;o, if we were one. Surely 
 it is 111. li^'ht thiiiL,', tor instancu, tliat in a certain 
 lieid we shoiikl have four or live branches of the 
 Cliurch of Christ, coiiteii.ling ~I tliiiik the word is 
 not ti«) Mtroiii^ — striving,' to i,'et hold of the same 
 persons. Now the ten.lency is -and it is inevitable 
 in these circuinstaiice.s—huinan nature beiiij,' what it 
 is -that we should exai,'i,'erate and bring into the fore- 
 ground our differences, when we urge [lersons to 
 connect themselves with our (>articular church. I 
 want, for my own self, to be able calmly to look at 
 the whole credeiida of the Christian Church, .so that 
 my thoughts and teelings may be profierly adjusted 
 and balanced towards the whole Christian lioctrino : 
 and I feel that if you force me into a position where I 
 have to contend, as it were, for what may be said in 
 my own interest, you tempt me sorely to exaggerate ; 
 whereas if the Church were united, we shouhriiave a 
 wider and more generous, and I think more thorough. 
 Christian view of the whole Christian Church andof 
 its W(jrk. And, Mr. Cliairman and brethren, do not 
 our hearts long for union '. I am not going to say 
 that it is an easy thing to accomplish it. I recognize 
 the fact that in all the Christian bodies represented 
 here there may be certain ditlerences of opinion about 
 the constitutK^n of the Church, and the functions of 
 various (ithce-bearers, and so on ; but 1 think that if 
 we, by intercourse and continual prayer, seek this ob- 
 ject as we have been doing, we may hope that light 
 will arise upon us, and I believe that the very fact of 
 meeting as we are doing t<.-day is itself a great thing— 
 a very blessed thing. I feel tliat the Conference is not 
 prepared, possibly, to aih.pt a resolution, but I have 
 ventured to read these W(jrda as showing how the 
 matter lies in my own mind. 
 
 At the suggestion of Itev. Septimus Jones, Dr. 
 Caven handed his paper to the secretaries. 
 
 Kkv. I)k. SiTHKiu.AM. : 1 quite agree with the 
 oV}servatit>n that has been made, that the point we 
 want to keeii steadily in view is what our Lord and 
 Master desires in this matter. What is the drift aii.l 
 scope^ of Scripture teaching in regard to the unity of 
 the Christian Church :' ]n the passage that has been 
 repeatedly referred to, which occurs in our Saviour's 
 intercessory prayer, 1 think that those words by no 
 means exclude the idea of corporate unity, and yet 
 to my own thought that is not the main point, but 
 rather in thi- wise : that what He desireil and prayed 
 for was such a united spirit as would make a schisin in 
 the body imjiossible. Now, i sup[Mise, there is a 
 g; lai conserioub of oimnou iieie, ami a feeling tiiat 
 there is a [.oint in regard to corporate unity towanl 
 which our desires, our prayers, our labours are con- ' 
 
 stantly tending. We can well understand that there 
 is such a thing, that there is a possibility of a cor[)o- 
 rate unity that would lack the other and essential 
 element , and that (he impi>rtant (joint, to be kept 
 steadily in view, is .solely the spiritual union ; that 
 the other will result -will come as a natural result, 
 and not as a process that, is forced by any kind of 
 outside pressure. ( »iie thing, I think, will not be 
 <lis|iuted by anyone here for one moment— Christ is 
 not, and cannot be, the author of division in His own 
 body and vse would seem to be almost forced to the 
 conclusion that in some way a state of things has 
 come ab(.ut that is not in accordance with the mind 
 of Christ and tliat it becomes our solemn duty to 
 see what we can do to remove the causes that have 
 produced this unsatisfactory state of things, and get 
 back, .f we can, into a condition that we feel will 
 be more in harmony with the Master's teaching, and 
 j with the Master's spirit. Reterence has been^made 
 I already to some of the evils which have arisen from 
 ' divisiim. Perhaiis we might be a little inclined, on 
 ! some of those [loints, to exaggerate the evils, or to 
 attribute those evils exclusively to divisions in the 
 Church which may have a very different source in 
 ' some instances. It is quite possible that evils, with 
 regard to doctrine, have resulted from divisions ; but 
 it does 11. .t f(,ll,>w that Corporate unity will be a cure 
 for the.se evils. In fact, if we may learn anything 
 from Church history, we learn this, that at the very 
 time when there was corporate unity, doctrines that 
 were not revealed in the Scri[iture3 of truth became 
 incorporated into the Christian system to such an e.x- 
 tent that the great essentials of Christian truth be- 
 came hirgely overlaid, and almost disappeared from 
 the faith of men. Corporate unity, then, does not 
 seem to be a siithcient cure for evds in regard to 
 doctrine Then there is another point. There can 
 be no doubt, as Mr. Lan-try observed last night, that 
 divisions have tended to the lowering of Church dis- 
 cipline - that most important matter in connection 
 with Church organization ; and, so far as it has gone, 
 I am afraid, to a large exten*, it is discounted entirely 
 in the Chiirches of to day -almost unavoidably ao,— 
 and there is aiiiung us almost a fear of enforcing Scrip- 
 ture discipline, just because of the results that would be 
 likely to follow, that members of our Churches might 
 withdraw and go elsewhere, where they would be re- 
 ceived ivith, perhaps, viry littlei|uestioning. In regard 
 to the ingathering of members of the Lhurcli, [ d.^not 
 think that our divijioiis are the principal hindrance. 
 I know what a great many peojjle say. i)ut in what 
 they say they are exceedingly inconsistent. They do 
 not apply their own i.riiici[)le in reference to anything 
 else l)ut the Christian Church. Why, our divisions 
 and our strifes-if we may use so strong' n word - 
 bear no comparison with tlie strifes of men in political 
 life, and with their diversities of ojiinion and senti- 
 ment : but tliat never prevented anybody from iden- 
 
ON THE SIB-FKCT OK IMTV. 
 
 17 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 tifying himself with a political party. No one thinks 
 of 8ayin>{, in this country, that Sir John A. teaches 
 one thing and Mr. Laurier another, and, therefore, I 
 will not unite with either. The fact is, in human 
 nature there is a dispositiim to find an easy excuse 
 for neglecting duty and obedience to the Word of 
 God ; and, I think, that is the source from which the 
 excuse is framed, and so men try to throw the blame 
 on the Christian Church. Nevertheless, if this is 
 made an excuse, there is also upon us the serious 
 responsibility to remove that ground of excuse, if 
 we can,— and to leave men with as few and as 
 weak excuses as we can for neglecting the great con- 
 cerns of the soul. Christian union is a desire to ^et 
 the mind that was in Christ. What we have con- 
 fessed when we say that is that there is not sutH- 
 cient in us of the mind that was in Chript to remove 
 a very great cause of scandal ! And, therefore, in 
 aiming at union it has accomplished this— if it has 
 accomplished nothing more— it has brought us face to 
 face with the fact that there is less of the mind of 
 Christ with us than there ought to be ; and, therefore, 
 we are brou^^ht face to face with the duty of trying U> 
 remove a serious evil, if we can ; and wlien it is 
 remedied we shall scarcely need to discuss methods of 
 corporate unity, for that will seem almost to come of 
 itself. Now, I may not be so familiar as some of my 
 brethren with views that may be entertained by 
 clergymen of the Church of England ; that was re- ! 
 ferred to this morning ; but I have assumed, in com- ! 
 ing to this Conference, that we were coming to confer 
 with men who meant what they said, and said what ' 
 they meant, and that I am not under any obligation 
 whatever to understand their words in a different 
 sense from that which they would bear in a fair 
 way. I think when these brethren seek with us 
 conference on the subject of Christian unity, or 
 corporate unity, they have no under-hand sense in i 
 which they speak of it— and they want here, as we, ' 
 too, want— a frank expression of opinion as to what 
 each other's convictions are, and to see how far we i 
 can harmonize them in the direction of corporate ' 
 unity. Just one other point I wish to refer to. 
 We know as a matter of fact in the great Mission : 
 fields among the heathen, that it becomes almost 
 essential, in order to success in the evangelizing of 
 the heathen, that denominational differences should i 
 bo minified to the smallest possible point. I am told 
 by those in the field that these differences are things 
 that are rarely or never heard of amonsj the heathen. 
 They sometimes notice it themselves, and are puzzled I 
 to know why the Church should be divided into so ' 
 many sections ; and I find that our missionaries fail I 
 lo give the reasons in a sati.sfactory way, and when you 
 cannot justify your course to the satisfaction of an 
 average noathen, it seems to me there is somcthini' 
 radically wrong. Now then, I think, we sliall do 
 wisely to keep our thoughts steadily on the objective '■ 
 
 point— on the <me hand, perhaps, not to expect too 
 much fr<jm this Conference. Why, sir, I think if it 
 were possible to carry a resoluticm in favrmr of imme- 
 diate organic union in thi >nference to day, it would 
 not be a wise thing to do, i.ecause, I think, we would 
 be hurrying it at such a rate of speed as would result 
 in disaster before we got to the end ; but, I think, 
 already, important steps have been taken ; and if that 
 same kindly consideration and earnest prayer con- 
 tinues to animate us, I am satisfied that further stepi 
 will be taken in good time, and we shall see, as the 
 result of this good beginning, tliat which will rejoice 
 the heart of every good Christian, and, I believe, 
 increase the joy of the other world. 
 
 Rkv. Dr. Proldkoot: Had my friend, Dr. Caven, 
 proposed this paper as a resolution I would have been 
 prepared to second it. Uowever, the point at issue 
 at present is just the advantages of corporate union. 
 These were very clearly set before us by Mr. Langtry 
 last niglit ( listened to his speech with very great 
 pleasure and satisfacti >n. I believe that he did not 
 exaggerate at all the advantages expected to be de- 
 rived from corporate union of these three Churches. 
 1 feel sure of that. I admire very mnch the senti- 
 inent of our friends of the Church of England in 
 inviting us to this Conference, and especially the 
 sentiments expressed a few minutes ago by Provost 
 Body. His, idea is that we are fairly taught in the 
 Bible— especially by the sayings of our Lord, and by 
 His prayer— that the Church should be one. Now, 
 holding fast that idea, believing it to express the 
 mind of Christ, whatever difficulties there may be, 
 his view is that we should seek to remove those 
 difficulties, and that we should believe it is possible 
 to remove them if we had more light. I admire that 
 sentiment. It is viewing the whole subject from its 
 divine aspect. If it be the mind of Christ, we are 
 to labour to accomplish it, and we shall certainly in 
 due time attain it. That is a noble sentiment. It 
 was very briefly expressed, but it impressed my mind 
 very forcibly. The same idea was emphasized by my 
 friend. Dr. Caven, very fully also. I know that the 
 effecting of a cor|)orate union may take a long time. 
 I have had a good deal of experience in the matter 
 of union in the Presbyterian Churches. For example, 
 a long time ago— upwards of thirty years ago— negoti- 
 ations were introduced for the union between what 
 was then called the Free Church and the United Pres- 
 byterian Church. These were carried on for some 
 time, and entirely failed. Then they were resumed 
 for a ccmsiderable time under the most happy auspices, 
 though the deliberations spread over (|uite a number 
 of years. But even if we should not attain corporate 
 
 imimi af rif*.3aLinf if io n ......«i fV:«» £ x . 1 i 
 
 in the right direction. If we advance a step, and keep 
 moving on, those who succeed us in the Church of 
 Christ may be able to complete it in due time. I 
 
IS 
 
 ri:«)r'KKl>ix,;.s OF COVKKKKNCE 
 
 n.c i.iuei II we are to he unitpil At '>li if 
 fTh '*''"•!!'"«"*. ""t on .natters of itferen « "^^ j 
 
 un„,, «,«,„, between „. .„, ,jS:Zt .'llS' 
 It is our vital union with our blessed Savin„r if 
 
 ha. already existed bvTha^i^'.' n"^' ""'"" ^^'^^ 
 Then, further it will K "^® "^ ^'"'' '" ""'' ^ouls. 
 
 raore'ii?et:t'inoneH„o;h'er'''''Ti ^'"" '' "^ ^"" ^^"^-^ 
 us to meet her« anH ^^ ^' '^ * "'"«** ">atter for 
 
 other/ We ravchereTT""''"^'"'^^ ^'*^' «»« ■'un- 
 churches ,n quest Jr a^l i?"- """^ '" '^'''^ ^'^••'^-' 
 
 able to feel or expr^^b re '"rtn i T ' "" "'^^ 
 ter that this vrill help us to :. ,,?? . '•'''="'«^f '"•'»- 
 ..ne another as brethr' „ L he n. sTifTh^Vl "' "f 
 sceptical world, whon we ful Iv r«' '^ '""'''^' '*'"! 
 
 and love one an,.fh.ri' 5,""/._':«'^»Kn.ze one anUher 
 
 Master and labouring ^ thna;;^:;^^^^^;'^^ 
 
 be a ^roat jjain if we could p;o the length of Christian 
 o mnun.on, to which, for my part. l\avo no ob 'ee 
 ton. I have no objection to hold communion with 
 ( hn.,t,an.,althoui{h they .lo not h«!on.. to m donrm.i 
 nat.,.,, .Then there IS room for co-opVr^ti" /in ma " 
 ter. of ,,eneral interest For instance, a. Mr. Lan^try 
 said, n reference to the Jesuit Act, in reference to 
 school matters, and a ,reat many thinj tharaffec 
 the various section., ,.f the Church of (.'hrist h. which 
 a united expression .,f opinion would be ina iable ni 
 the community. If we were united -if we we?e to ^ 
 certain extent even the moral power of the Chu^f 
 would be felt in the p<.litics of the Dominion, and I do 
 no believe our political life will ever be truly healthv 
 
 l-arly and thoroughly held by us as Churches I think 
 I the Church has a ^reat deal to do in that matter F 
 I remember at the time of the great American ^TwJ 
 
 ^Hvided. I think tLtttli^cmnnr^tnThrnS 
 |.ower of the Church ought to be brou<S t^ W moTe 
 
 believ"trCh""'r'*ST"' n-stionsof thel^ 
 „. fk Church would exert a healthy inHuence 
 
 upon the community, an.l raise the standard of poE 
 thl 1 l"'V"''^ '"'""^''^y I ^'n «"re of that. A. t , 
 b a^eal Xrr^' '/ -"--'-Po-te union woufd 
 ot a ureat .idvantage, for reasons already stated • hnf 
 
 o;"^?n"i:^:i I'^r '-^ ^t^^^f toaliuttten" 
 uZ'h , "/ '^'* ' believe the Church of England and 
 Methodist people will not compete with one another 
 
 theTvJiTr^J ''f '■"'' "^'^'«' ^"J ''-^ resolved thai 
 ThTt T« i '?*"■ '"t"-'"npet'tion with one another 
 that IS a great matter already gained That is an 
 o her great advantage of union^t^his attempt J uni^" 
 
 S\ tlie^^cl^urt^ ^T'' '■' ^'" »'«- -P^kabfe 
 PhriJ *^^.^'^"'^ch. Advancing quietly in a lovinz 
 
 b "n to f?d 'tV; r ''Z^Ti'-- "hall immediat^fy 
 we"^lh..n / 'he benefit of this Conference, that is, 
 we shall soon begin to reap the fruits of what wUl be 
 brought about perfectly by organic union. 
 
 Kkv. Dk. Mo. KRiiMiE : I believe that (Jod Himself 
 
 Hertr;r"?enr'' T' "' ^""^'*"^" -all togXl' 
 riert we arc, representinir today three --reat bodi.-n 
 and branches of the Church of ( "hrist. Are n *t we in a 
 better position to deal with this question of un on tian 
 we were s.,me years ago ^ I think we are becauT 
 suppose he case, that Ood's Holy Spirt ' be^'a^To 
 
 th oe b, 1 " ''T''""' "'^'/•""'^ -y- " a-« -e tSe e 
 tnrce bod.es ; some of them are at disunion amonL^ 
 
 13 to set these bodiesj themselves at union. " A,is4 that, 
 
ON THK SUBJECT OF UNITV. 
 
 ift 
 
 by a very careful prucuM. has been iiccoinpliahe.l ; 
 
 until tn-day the Mothi)di»t <.'liurch is oho, tli.) Prenhy- 
 
 Uriaii Churcii is oiio ; and tlio way lias i)»>en cleared 
 
 for us now to enter into this «|Ue8tion in sucii a man 
 
 ner as it could not have boon if the old state of dis 
 
 union had existed ainonj; those bodies tlioniselves . 
 
 and I honestly believe it is all working up to that. 
 
 I remember once, before the union was effected 
 
 »moni< the Methodist bodies, I otticiated in a villaj<e 
 
 , m my younx Jays, and, side bv side, there wore 
 
 ; two Methodist c iurch.*8 the Wesleyan Methodist 
 
 i and the Episcopal Methodist. These churches could 
 
 I only have service in the morninj^, and I had service 
 
 I in the evenin),^, and one Sunday evening the Episcopal 
 
 U Methodist Bishop, as he was called, came to my ser 
 
 vice while the Wesleyan Methodists had their service 
 
 also ; and theirs beinjj so much alike, and ours so very 
 
 different, I was surprised that this gentleman cauie to 
 
 our service, and ho >,'ave the reason, that " Mr. Mock- 
 
 ndge was properly, Episcopally, ordained, while the 
 
 ' Wesleyan Methodist was not." I thou^'ht that was a 
 
 new way of dealing with Apostolic succession. 
 
 Rev. Dk. Cakman : That is said, 1 suppose, of (me 
 deceased I 
 
 . Dk. MocKRiixtE : I do not know who it wnn 
 
 Rev. Dk Carma.v : If a living man I would like 
 to disown It positively ; if a dead man I would not 
 say. 
 
 ^ Dr. MocKRiuoh : As it presented itself to my mind, 
 ,t there was disunion among them t(j as great an extent 
 a 418 it existb here at present. That has all been arranged 
 and made ready ; so that »ve can, as three great bodies, 
 «nter into this (iue8ti(m; and I believe it is by the 
 leadings of the Holy Spirit. As a Church of En"land 
 ininister, I think the Church of England has held'aloof 
 from this (juestion too long ; and I consider it another 
 point in the leadings of Gods Holy Spirit that a 
 little less than three years ago, this (luesition was 
 brought up at the Provincial Synod, consisting of all 
 the delegates and Bishops of the Church of En-land 
 in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia, 
 and that it was discussed on the Hoor of that house in 
 such a way that I am perfectly certain if Dr. Suther- 
 land, or any of those gentlemen representing other 
 churches had been present, their hearts woufd have 
 been glad ; and I know ministers prosent, not belong- 
 ing to the Church of England, were melted to tears 
 by listening to those speeches ; and I believe the 
 Spirit that has prepared the Methodist and Presby- 
 terian Churches is also beginning to prei)are the 
 Church of England for a united discussion in the 
 Synod; and I believe this Conference is a further 
 move in it ; and if we ourselves can even i.".; h.».pk- *.-. 
 our places and try to bring some (jf the light that 
 we have gained here, and to extend to our people 
 some of the impressions we have gained here, that 
 
 this will 
 prise us. 
 
 grow and grow in a way that will lur 
 because I believe it is in accordance with 
 the will of (iod and tho workings of His Holy 
 S|)irit. With regard to the evils of disunion, I 
 feel deeply what luis boon said with regard to the 
 iiiission Hold. Occupying, as 1 do, a position in the 
 Church of England which brings mo ccmstantly in 
 contact with the great missionary ijuestion, I am 
 sorely 1 id to see the groat evil in the foreign field 
 through ilisunion ; but owing to the divided state 
 of the Christian Church— or at least those three 
 branches that are represented here to-day — our 
 own towns, our own villages, our own cities, are 
 shamefully neglected in the work of (Jhrist. Take, 
 for instance, a small villa, e of a thousand inhabitant*. 
 There you have perhaps hve or six different denomi- 
 nations. Five or six ministers ekii.g out a miaerable 
 existence. But that is not the great point. It is 
 tive or six ministers, each one of whom does not do a 
 satisfactory work, because here is one minister, he 
 has a certain service in the nKjrning, he goes out six 
 or nine miles in the aftern(,on, he goes on further 
 after that till he is seventeen miles or so away from 
 his original post. Ho just scratches over a tiny 
 little ground, calling on farmer so-and-so that he 
 knows belongs to him, and then calls again and goes 
 back. Each of the other tive ministers does the same 
 thing, and the result is there is no mission work done 
 —there is no gong from house to house. Nobody Las 
 time to do it. Each one has his own little track to 
 foll(jw, and it is a long track and a verv unsatisfactory 
 track, and the consequence is, a great many people 
 fall through and are not attended to. This was 
 brought home to me one time. In the village where J 
 was situated the same village where the other occur- 
 rence took place, too, the Presbyterian minister 's 
 horse and my horse used to pasture in the same field. 
 
 Dk. Si therlam) : But your people could not pas- 
 ture in the same field. 
 
 Dr. Mockkidqe: The Presbyterian ininister had 
 a very canny Scotchman as his servant man, and he 
 went out one d:'.y~(we both started off on the same 
 tours about the same time on Sunday afternoon). 
 He went <»ut on Sunday afternoon to get the Presby- 
 terian minister's horse, but he was not to be found. 
 He had to get out in some way or other, so he took 
 my horse— took him coolly and hitched him up to the 
 Presbyterian minister's buggy, and away the Presby- 
 terian ininister drove with him ; and when 1 went out 
 to catch my own horse (the Presbyterian minister 
 had a servant man, and I hadn't- he was not to be 
 found, and I was put to straits that afternoon. I had 
 to go and borrow or hire a horse. The next day the 
 
 contusion, and apologized to me in the most abject 
 manner -and he said, " 1 tell you the truth, Mr. 
 Mockridgc, I didn't know a single thinn about it 
 
l'l;()CKi:i>I\(;s ok CoNKKRKN'fK 
 
 until I had i,Mt iieiirly mcmii or oi-ht iiiiIi-h :m:iy, .iiid 
 then I thoii^'lit it w!i« not worth l,'oiiii.' l.iuk. I tell 
 you, thoin^'h, I .li.l thnik thv I'rfHhytfriiin !iii;iisttT 
 wa« a littlo l>lin(l, b«c;iii8c hJH horse whs ii dark uray 
 and inino wan a lif^dit sorn-i. I hii|)i.oh»! he was -^o l.usy 
 studyinK out his sornioii, that hi) foryot all about it. 
 Now tako the caHo of a Ian,'.' city Tor.>iito for m- 
 ■tance. I say, owin^ to the divisions ..f Christianity, 
 there art) hundreds and thousands of i>fo|(l,., ii(<ord- 
 in^ to the size of thr city, that are utterly neLrlei'ted, 
 and have no pastor to look after them, and no [)erson 
 to care fur them one iota. Here is a Presbyterian 
 Church. The minister has a lari,'e attendance in bin 
 Church. It is as much iishecan do toatteinl to those 
 persons. If he can visit them once a year, or once in 
 six m.mths, he does all that he cm d. and iire[)are 
 his lectures and sermons and all tbin^'j of tliat kind. 
 Then he is only ministering to those people who take 
 it info their heads to come to him ; and it is the .same 
 way with the Church of Eiii,dand minister, and the 
 Methodist minister ; but who is attendini,' to the 
 f,'reat mass of the people that are out^de the 
 churches ' Who is lookini; after those that oti«ht to 
 to be broui;bt into the Churclies;' I say there is 
 nobody ; tliat althoiitrli we have a i^reat many more 
 clergymen and ministers than we need, and altboii^di 
 the Chnrchea are overstocked, to a f,'reat extent, with 
 those who are proacliiny the Word of (Jod, it does not 
 tend to the taking care of the masses of the people, 
 but rather it diminishes it ; and, t think, that evil 
 ought greatly to be emphasized. If you will study it 
 out, I think you will see what 1 say is perfectly true ; 
 so we ought to enter into this.iueation with the great- 
 est earnestness, and the strongest prayer in our hearts 
 that God would bring us together. 1 have enjoyed 
 very much hearing the speeches from the Presbyterian 
 and Methodist ministers, and looking into their faces 
 —for most of them are gooiilooking men and hear- 
 ing the charm of their voices. One ni..re thin-,', for 
 the purpose of withstanding the fearful aggressions 
 of the Papal Church at the present time we"ouglit to 
 sink every difference that it is po3sil)Ie to sink'^ and 
 move shoulder to si Milder, and save this country 
 from going back to the horrors and evils of lufdi.eval 
 history. 
 
 Rev. Dk. Wii.lmm.s : I am here th s morning, look- 
 ing you in the face, to express my own op nion— not 
 to commit the Church to which I have the honour of 
 beh)nging to any course in reference to these matters 
 under discussion ; .and I am rather glad tint o , com- 
 mittee met yesterday morning. We have laid down no 
 plan of procedure; and we have come here w th no 
 particular line of action— just to learn what our 
 
 ••!--•. !:t:i ■,•: •-•;;; .- ;;:;;:c;i:: ■.^;;i;rcri fiaVc to oay to us, 
 
 and what they wish in this matter. I had not the first 
 idea, myself, that such propositions would be laid down 
 as were laid down yesterday -some three or four or five 
 
 of them— which I took to be the »«'nso of the .Anglican 
 brethren in reference to union. I take that to Ih) 
 their View of it ; and I am here to give expression to 
 my own thought and feeling, especially in reference 
 to the matter now under discussion. I cannot rid 
 mysell of the impression that I am as responsible for 
 my intellectual perceptions of truth as I am lor any- 
 ttiiie,' else ; and my intellectual perceptions of truth 
 greatly give ciiaracter and direction to my spiritual 
 realization. I cannot rid myself of that. The con- 
 ceptions whic I I form of religious truth will largely 
 determine into which of the denominations I should 
 fall ; and tiiat denoinination that would most really 
 assi.st me in working out what 1 conceive to be the 
 religious life is the denomination to which I should 
 give my adherence. I can't rid myself of that. I 
 would not like to undertake to relieve the peoi)le that 
 I minister to of that impression. When I am per- 
 mitted to stand up and preach I keep two things before 
 me— Krst of all, to minister to their religious life, 
 spiritual life, and then to minister to their intellectual 
 conception of the truth which is given. I take it that 
 the denominations as they exist to-day have largely 
 grown out of these intellectual perceptions of truth. 
 1 have been in this country now some hfty-throe or 
 fifty four years. I have been permitted to move up 
 and down the country for some time -forty-tive years 
 — in the position i a Christian minister. I have 
 noticed a growth of spiritual feeling in the country — 
 and especially the last twenty-five years— with a great 
 deal of thankfulness. X groat deal of the sharpness 
 has Worn off. There used to be a great many more 
 points of di.scu3sion years ago than we have to-day — 
 — a great deal of animosity in the years gone by — 
 a great deal of bitterness ~a great deal of conten- 
 tion. We have very little of that to-day. I rejoice 
 in this— in the growini; sense that we have of the 
 power, the influence of the Christian life; and I 
 certainly adopt the sentiment that the more we live 
 into the life of Christ the less diflere'ice of opinion 
 there will be. I f)e<;an in aiy own early days to think 
 less of the smaller things than to recite two words of 
 very few letters ; and I think a great deal more of the 
 word "love" and the principle of love than I did 
 when I was younger— the love, the joy, the peace, the 
 long sutlering, the meekness, the gentleness which, 
 the .\i>ostle declares, aie the fruit of the Spirit ; and 
 and the longer I live the more I am attached to those 
 little Words; and I stand here to-day without any 
 feeling of bitterness towards any denoinination. If 
 any man tells me that desus Christ died for his sins 
 according to the Scrij)tu'-es, and rose again the third 
 day according to the Scriptures, I shake hands with 
 him, and do not ask him what denomination he belongs 
 to. ihen, again, the influence and power have been 
 through the denominations. I think there is not one 
 of us thai will not say that God has smiled upon the 
 difrerent denominat ons. I cannot think, myself, that 
 
OS THK sriUKcr of cmtv 
 
 i 
 
 I 
 
 i 
 
 I 
 
 '>iir present poaitiuii inso ,iritii,"iiiijiti(; tu the miii.l aiul 
 tlioiiirlit uf Cliriar iii soiiio ..f the 'ir.-thr.^ii RmMii t,, 
 tliiiik It is. If it i», I ciiiiiiot tliuri iicconrit f.ji- ttu- 
 roiisuii why 81) lar;,'o an .iiii .unt of nci.x] h;is ouiiie t.. 
 ..ur country from tho <lenouiinatioii» I cannot hidr 
 fri>ni my mind tho advantaj^'es which have come to the 
 world from Hocts. Thoro is not a sect now in our 
 .•oiintry— that is, a rt!lii<ioui, Christian sect but what 
 Uives prominence to some portion of divine trut i a id 
 t.. some principle of Christianity thvt is not i^iven 
 prominence to by some other denominations. VVhether 
 we bei^in with the guiikers and >{o on through, we 
 will Hiid that the ditierent denominations ijive' ex- 
 pression to a form and force of truth tliat the other 
 ilenominations do not «ive expression to. So I take 
 It ; and I ask myself then this (luustioti : Will cer- 
 pi irate union prevent that t Are we to have one 
 doctrine' Are we to have one service book' Will 
 (iirporate union produce tho same effect m our country 
 that the denoininationd have produced ' Will the 
 kinj?dom of the Lord Jesus Christ be as extensively 
 developed, and the influence of the truth be as fully 
 tflt / When there was one corpcjrate body the world 
 looked on and lauifhod and turned in idel. We know 
 what has come of the one corporate body. Then, 
 ii'^'ain, in connection with our denominations there is 
 a certain kind of what I nny call Church life which 
 ■,'row8 up out of the Christian views to which we i{ivo 
 pn.minence ; and that Church life would not develope 
 Itself only for a certain prominence that we >,Mve to 
 it-rtain truth. How is that to be effected chani,'ed / 
 The ijuestion is a very broad one, and I would like to 
 look at it all around. I an Uftt in a position that I 
 <:|in persuade myself that the prayer of our L jrd Jesus 
 Christ, to which reference ia had, had special refer- 
 ence to corporate union. I cannot persuade myself. I 
 cannot prevent the intellectual perception of truth 
 that I had ; cannot prevent it— dont know how I can 
 prevent it ; don't know whether 1 have will-power 
 i;nough to read in another light thoss perceptions of 
 truth. And what I claim for myself I must claim for 
 every other person. I think that we sh*ll i,'et closer 
 t..!,'ether not so much by c irp )rate union, by the 
 adoptiim of certain forms or plans, as we shall >,'et to- 
 i,'t'ther in the exercise of our Christian feeling and 
 Christian thought in the huminitanan efforts which 
 characterize this age, and in our missionary develop- 
 ment. I think we shall come totjether there, and 
 come together much closer than we shall come together 
 by an effort at corporate union. Those are my 
 thoughts. 
 
 M this point Dr. Caven's statement was read again. 
 
 ii uaviiig oocii ouggeuieo' itiat tins be jiui as a 
 iiiofijn, and a vote taken, 
 
 Prini;ip,vl Dymoni) deprecated this ; because if it 
 vent forth that a immber of Methodist friends had 
 
 differed, tlit; Church would be hold responsible, and 
 t!i:it would bo undenirablo. This mi'^ht l.u the deli- 
 verance c.f the Conference at the end of the discus- 
 sions if wo desired to mike it so; but his idea was 
 that it be recorded in the minuttis as a suggestion to 
 the Churches. 
 
 Rkv. IJk Lvivu objected to receiving Dr. Caven's 
 statement as an expression of o[»iiiion of the Church 
 to wliich he belongs (Presbyterian). 
 
 Dkan ('\rmicm\ki, sugK'osted a committee of two 
 from each Ciiurch to draw up a resolution which 
 might be submitted before we separate. 
 
 Dr. Okwart : It would be a mistake to press this 
 resolution at this juncture, esi>ecially as there have 
 been expre8si"iis in regard to our Lord's words : and 
 this resolution undertaken to deal with our Lord's 
 words. 
 
 TiiK M (Dkkatok: If seems to mj it is the mind of 
 the Conference to hold this in abeyance. 
 
 Mr. Elliott: The object of this Conference is to 
 promote among the three bodies of Christians here 
 represented a more perfect and complete uni<.n ; but 
 respecting this ijiestion of organic unity, upon which 
 there is a (iff irence of opinion U|)on the part of some 
 of our Methodist brethren— there has been a strong 
 expreision of opinion rather in favour of sectarian 
 difference than of organic union ; and, I think, that 
 we should be content to place this resolution on the 
 minutes without taking any action at all upon the 
 subject. A division, even if there were only one or 
 two gentlemen to raise any opposition, would, I 
 think, be a misfortune ; and we should put no resolu- 
 tion before this meeting except it was perfectly under- 
 stood it had th< consensus of the whole, it is a 
 meeting of a peculiar character, and of such a char- 
 acter that I am sure we all heartily rejoice in having 
 been permitted to attend, for the promotion of Chris- 
 tian unity among the tliree great bodies of Christians 
 tliat we represent. 
 
 Rkv. Dr. Carma.v : It is not correct to say the 
 Methodist brethren have expressed themselves in 
 favour of sectarian division. 
 
 Dkan Cakmuhael, in introducing his paper, said : 
 When tie coiniiiittee of the Church of England met, 
 after long deliberatio.i it was thouglu well that various 
 members of t le committee should prepare papers that 
 they might read to the committee of the Church of 
 England ; and those papers were passed around to 
 various sub-committees, in different parts of Canada 
 -'" "-■■•=-- ^viii;;;-.: ui;::3i;iit la vJicn papci. in {jiVing 
 the title, " Amount of Unity in Doctrine, Worship, 
 Modes of .Action between the Presbyterian and 
 Methodist Cimrches, and the Church of England,'' I 
 had to deal solely with tlie docuintnts of each Church. 
 
as 
 
 PROCEEDINGS OF* CONF^ERKNCF: 
 
 I 
 
 I avokled carefully, of cmirse — ruled out of uiy thought 
 tlu! oxproasion of any imlividual opinion whatsoever ; 
 and I 8inn)ly dealt with the records of each Church, 
 such as the Catechism of the Church of England, the 
 WestuiinsterConfession.the Discijiline of the Methodist 
 Cliurch, and so on ; and the paper is the result of the 
 conclusions that I came to from tliat. 
 
 Amount ok Cnity in Doctkine. Worship, Modes 
 OF Action' hetwkkn the PKEsitYiEKiAN and 
 Methodist Chuki mks and Chi kch ok England. 
 
 I woulil treat this comparison on the lines above 
 staled. 
 
 I. not trine. 
 
 It is capable of the clearest proof that on all funda- 
 mental doctrines, such as " the Being of (Jod," "the 
 Holy Trinity," "the Divinity and Work of Christ," 
 " the Holy Ghost," " the Inspiration and Authority of 
 the Holy Scriptures as a Rule of Faith,'" the three 
 Churches, Anglican, Presbyterian and Methodist, 
 are in the most perfect accord. The Anglican and 
 Meth(jdist Articles on these doctrines are almost iden- 
 tical in language. The Presbyterian Articles S(^me- 
 times use the same language, but are more elaborate. 
 In no case, however, can it be said that there is one 
 note of discord on any of these fundamental points. 
 
 Much might be made of this fact from a high xpirltiKtl 
 standpoint. 
 
 1st, That our agreement as to the Divine Scheme of 
 Salvation, in its relation to the Persons of the Trinity, 
 is perfect. 
 
 2nd, That " one ' on these points, which are funda- 
 mental, we may with grateful courage approach our 
 ditferences, etc. 
 
 Itortrines, ciipabh' i<f lieimj liranyht into tiiufi' p'r/'ct 
 (H'ciird. — The remarkaljle unity of thought and expres- 
 sion characteristic of the foregoing doctrines, would 
 naturally lead to the consideration of doctrines that 
 are largely held in accord, but that need a revision of 
 expression, or language, or re-statement to make them 
 alt(jgether so. The doctrines are those connected with 
 the Sacraments, the Church, Justification by Faith, 
 (iood works. 
 
 Thv Siinaiiii ids. — Here, unity of doctrine is apparent 
 on the numlier of Sacraments and on the definition of 
 a Sacrament, All agree that there are but two insti- 
 tutions of Christ possessed of the nature of a Sacra- 
 ment and generally necessary to salvation. 
 
 Definitions of a Sacrament are in accord on the fol- 
 
 signs or seals of (Jrace, tlieir being eHicacious only 
 tlirough worthy reception, their working invisibly in 
 us through the Holy Ghost, their being worthless to 
 the unbehever or unwortliy [lerson. 
 
 liaptlstii. — With regard to the Sacrament of Baptism, 
 we agree on the following {>oints : 
 
 (u) That infants are tit subjects to receive its sign 
 or seal. 
 
 [b] Tliat the baptismal w<jrds are those spoken by 
 the Lord. 
 
 (t) That Baptism is a sign (or seal) of ingrafting 
 into Cbrist, of foryiveness of sin, of adoption, of 
 regeneration by the Holy Spirit, of admission into the 
 Church, and profession. 
 
 7Vk LopTx Snppir. — We are in accord on the Lord's 
 Supper in the following respects : 
 
 (1) On the elements to be used — bread and wine. 
 
 (2) On the Divine words of institution. 
 
 (3) On the objects of the Sacrament, the showing 
 forth of the Lord's death, and the spiritual nourish- 
 ment and growth in grace of the faithful recipient. 
 
 (4) Od the spiritual presence of the body and blood 
 of Christ to the faithful recipient. So that they who 
 worthily communicate do feed upon the body and 
 blood of Christ. 
 
 Surely there is here with regard to the Sacraments 
 a large field of doctrine alike common to the three 
 < 'hurches. 
 
 JiiMijictitiini hy Faith. — Putting aside Presbyterian 
 views on ejection in connection with juntitication, and 
 dealing solely with justification as a doctrine com- 
 mon to the three Churciies, we may claim that the 
 teaching of the Church of England and the Methodists 
 is identical, and that Presbyterian teaching, though 
 more elaborate in dehnition, states nothing that may 
 not be held either by Anglican or Methodist. 
 
 (lixnl Works. — On this all important subject the 
 three Churches are in perfect accord. 
 
 The Chinrh. -The thre bodies believe in — 
 
 (.f) The Holy Catholic Church. 
 
 (/>i In its visible and invisible aspect. 
 
 ((•) In its power and authority to enact laws and 
 j exercise discijiiine. 
 
 I (</| in the Divine institution of the Ministry and 
 1 call thereto, in its distinctive character in the duties 
 1 of the Ministerial office, in its dignity, responsibility 
 and honour, and in principle, if not in actual word, in 
 the power of the Church to bind and loose, to excom- 
 i luuiiicatu or declare in souie shape or form absolution. 
 
 \ II. n IU.IC WORSHIP. 
 
 All agree that the Church should guide the public 
 devotit)nB of the pecjple. This done 
 
 (d) By liturgy, in the Church of England ; 
 (') By free prayer and liturgy, in the Methodist 
 i Church ; and 
 
ON THE SUBJECT OF T^NITY. 
 
 23 
 
 ((•) By outlines of prayers, in the Presbyterian 
 Church. 
 
 The principle of an actual liturgy is held by Anglicans 
 and Methodists, though public worship is not restricted 
 to its use by the latter, and the principle of the Church 
 guiding the devotions of the people is fully set forth 
 in form by the Westminster Confession. 
 
 The three Churches (laying aside the Presbyterian 
 doctrine of God's Eternal Decree and the perseverance 
 of the Saints] agree perfectly on the following doc- 
 trines, either from a dogmatic or controversial stand- 
 point : 
 
 (1) The Resurrection of Christ. 
 
 (2) The Old Testament. 
 
 (3) Original Sin. 
 
 (4) The One Oblation of Christ on the Cross. 
 
 (5) Eternal Punishment. 
 :(\) Free Will. 
 
 (7) Purgatory, Worship of Images. 
 
 (8) Evils of Roman Mass. 
 
 (D) Ministering in an Unknown Tongue. 
 (]0) Celibacy of Clergy. 
 Ill) Christian Man's Oath. 
 
 (13) The Anglicans and Methodists on the observ- 
 ance of great Church Festivals. 
 
 III. M0l)E.S OF AfTION". 
 
 'I'he modes of action characteristic of the three 
 Cliiirchps are in Canada nearly identical. These 
 Churches are governed by ecclesiastical organizations 
 )»i8.sessed of legislative powers, and the laws emanating 
 frciiu these organizations guide the progress and con- 
 serve the rights of each Church. 
 
 J/M/^caH.— Vestries. Diocesan Synods. Provincial 
 Synod. 
 
 /'/ 1. s/>|/<crio». — Congregational Board. The Presby- 
 tery. General Assembly. 
 
 Mpfh<tdi»f. Congregatitjnal Hoard. Tiie Circuit 
 iSiiards. The Ooneral Conference. 
 
 Each separate congregation is part of a loctil system, 
 whicli system is part, of a su])erior and final court, 
 regarded in varying degrees as of supreme authority, 
 in the Presbyterian and Methodist Churches the 
 Superior Court has its powers far more clearly defined 
 thiiu in the Church of England. 
 
 f had to draw thi.s out, and put it in a cut-and-dry 
 way im account of the imnienseanirjunf of ground I had 
 to travel ; but I would bo very sorry that any of you 
 
 part would bo confined in any way ti> the points whicli 
 
 I have t>numerate<l in this [lajier. In a 'ing and in a 
 
 iried ministry, altogether spent in this ountry, and 
 
 liaiikful to Almighty God for countless blessings that 
 
 I have received from Him, I can say from my heart 
 and «f>ul that I think the greatest blessing that God 
 has ever favoured me with is allowing me to stand 
 on this platform to-day, and to look you in the face, 
 and to let you see mine, and the faces of my 
 brethren. I cannot tell you, gentlemen, how strange 
 I feel ; and although this paper has been confined 
 altogether to points of agreement, and that its nature 
 cut mo off, of course, from speaking of any points of 
 difference, as 1 meet with you here in this matter to- 
 day, whilst I know the ditt'erenees, whilst I feel in 
 my heart that these differences are great, still I do 
 believe that I would not be doing my duty to my God 
 without expressing in my heart and soul the deep and 
 earnest conviction tliat if we can only carry on the 
 spirit of these meetings in our various Churches, that 
 the apparent difficulties that now staie us in the face 
 will, under the influence of Almighty God, and the 
 worivings of His blessed Spirit, be largely swept away, 
 and that as we know one another more, and learn to 
 love one another more, we will find that the points 
 that we may hereafter agree on will l)e more wonder- 
 ful than the points on which we differ. In saving 
 this I am perfectly sure I am expressing the opin- 
 ion, not (mly of the members of the Chur^ li of 
 England who are connected with this meeting, but, I 
 think, I may say, from the spirit of the Provincial 
 Synod itself, that 1 am largely expressing the opinion 
 of that official body. From various reasons our one 
 honest, earnest, prayerful idea is to come together if 
 we can only come togettier. Our prayer is that (iod 
 might minimize these differences : and, I d(( believe, 
 that if we only go on in earnest faith, as we are 
 going on, and trust one another, and seek for the 
 Spirit of the living God in earnest love, the very 
 hardest point that may bo brought before us may, in 
 God's good time be got over, if only we are faitliful, 
 and if we strive to love one another. 
 Adjourned until 2.30 p.m. 
 
 AFTERNOON SESSION. 
 
 On resuming at 2.30 [i. m., 
 
 Rkv. Di{ Carm.w was elecied I'resident on motion 
 Sei)tinuis Jones and Rev. Dr. Caven. 
 
 Re- 
 
 Rkv, Df!. 1>kwakt road the fourth chapter (»f second 
 Corinthians. 
 
 Rkv. I)!i. MrFiAKKN led in prayer. 
 
 The Ciiaikman: The great point is to see the broad 
 grouni! on which we can tiiid .igreement, ;in(i it would 
 he i)roper to consider wlictlier in that very succinct 
 
 so pnt that all aci|iiiesce(i. There is the view that 
 comes from our bretlircn of the Clmrch of England, 
 that in looking ovi-r the stamiards they find iinich 
 unity with their own belief. Now, po88il>ly some 
 
24 
 
 I'KOCEEDINGS OF CONFERENCE 
 
 brethren from the Presbyterian Church may have 
 found the matter to be different as we »vent on ; but 
 the matter is before yi'u to follow as you will. 
 
 Rev. Dr. SEixiwicK : Is that ofiicial, or is it not i 
 
 Bishop Baldwin* : All the statements made by the 
 Church of England are absolutely otticial. 
 
 Rev. Mr. Brouohall : We should like to be per- 
 fectly assured and perfectly clear on that point. The 
 way that I cons'dered it was put before us at our meet- 
 ing, was this, that the Very Rev. Dean of Montreal 
 had ta n very great pains in .cd in collating docu- 
 ments, authorities, standards, of the three Churches, 
 and that, as a matter of fact, he found —as a matter 
 of fact simply— no opinion, or belief, or anything 
 else— as a matter of fact he found that we agreed 
 upon these points. That is as far, I think, as we 
 went. 
 
 Bishop Baldwin : Yes. 
 
 Mr. BroU(1hall : This paper was not put forth as 
 representing the views of the Church of England, or 
 the committee appointed by the Provincial Synod of 
 the Church of England in Canada. 
 
 The Chairman : But as an interpretation / 
 
 Mr. Brol'ghall : No, not as an interpretation at 
 all. It does not state our views at all, but the fact 
 that the standards of the three Churches, so far as 
 investigations by Dean Carmichael and the committee 
 went, agreed on these points. 
 
 Rev. Septimus Jones : So far as any statement is 
 made of the doctrines of the Church of England or 
 the position of the Church of England, they are based 
 upon our own formularies almost exclusively — 1 think 
 the words of the formularies— and therefore, so far 
 as that ground is laid, you may tread upon it with 
 certainty. So far as the standards of the other bodies 
 are concerned, we submit to correction ; we just merely 
 say that so far as we can gather from their standards, 
 that seemed to be their position. 
 
 The Chairman : The (piestion is, that we accede to 
 the interpretation of the Dean, and to his presenta- 
 tion of facts. 
 
 Rev. Dk. Lainc; : .\ltho igh I am not ignorant of our 
 own formularies, I am not prepared to say just on hear- 
 ing the paper cursorily read once, how far it accords 
 exactly with the definition., that may be found in our 
 formularies. It is (juite possible that we can find 
 agreement upon these jHiints as stated there. I think 
 it^is quite possible that we may, on the other hand, 
 find in our formularies some ijualitii'd statements 
 which would lead us just t" hesitate to accept in full 
 accord everythinu' tliat was there. l"or example, it 
 was said that we all agreed that the Church has power 
 or authority to enact laws. Well, now, we may say 
 Yes to that, and we may say No to that. It depends 
 
 ' entirely on what is meant by laws. I make that as a 
 I statement on which there is diiliculty. Take another 
 ' the statement in reference to baptism. I admire 
 that statement, and think I can subscribe to the four 
 points that were submitted. On the other hand there 
 may be something omitted ; and if that statement is not 
 complete we are really deceiving ourselves, if it is only 
 a partial statement. I am not calling in question the 
 statement, but I do think it would be very unwise for 
 us to commit ourselves now to that document as ex- 
 pressing the sentiment of the Presbyterian Church, 
 without having it before our ow" loinmittee and look- 
 ing unitedly at it. The bettei- ay would be to look 
 at it now in a general aspect, and procee<l with any 
 other matters of interest on the programme. 
 
 Dean Carmichael : I never dreamed for a moment 
 — nor did the committee of the Church of England — 
 that the paper to be read was in any way to be 
 endorsed officially as a statement of the views of the 
 different Churches. It was simply an effort of the 
 Church of England committee to show that we had 
 very good reason, in the sight of God, for hoping and 
 trusting that we might finally come to union— no 
 other reason. I never dreamed that any official aspect 
 would be given to that paper, or, indeed, any other. 
 
 Rev. Dr. Sutherland : The paper consists of 
 several distinctive sections. If we could have one 
 section read we could take that in. If we could have 
 the first portion read, which, I understood, consisted 
 of those things on which we are absolutely agreed, we 
 might not need to have that discussed. 
 
 Rev. S. .ToNts : When all is over, we are not com- 
 mitted to sending that forth, or any other document 
 like it. 
 
 Rev. Dr. Dewart : Is the object of this examina- 
 tion of this paper or discussion to find any basis I 
 
 Dean Carmichael: The object is not at all that at 
 
 this meeting we should strive to find a doctrinal basis. 
 
 Such an idea never entered into my mind or the mind 
 
 of the delegation of the Church of England. But 
 
 here we were— scattered representatives of the various 
 
 Churches ; we had never come together as yet, and it 
 
 was thought well and wise that certain points should 
 
 be brought before you, and I was asked to deal with 
 
 these points of agreement as an individual member of 
 
 our committee ; and that paper was read before our 
 
 committee, and our committee said. " Well, as far as 
 
 that paper is concerned we agrea witii it, and if there 
 
 is opportunity to he given we wouhl be glad that that 
 
 should be read before the Jisseinbjed brethren -but 
 
 sinij'ly re.id in the same sense that any other paper 
 
 I might be read, and iiave a general discussion on the 
 
 I i>oints of agreement. ' If wo agree generally there is 
 
 j nothing much to discuss about it. If any gentleman 
 
 I thought that I made a statement that was not in 
 
ON THK SUB.rK(T oF INITV. 
 
 25 
 
 accord with the standards of his Jhurch, I would be 
 very u;lad personally if he would say so, for the simple 
 reason of setting mc rif^ht : for when I went into the 
 study of this subject, 1 need scarcely say, that as far 
 as our sister Churches were concerned it was largely 
 a new subject to me. I gave it earnest consideration, 
 and was very, very careful in any statement that I 
 made ; but I might have made a good many mistakes. 
 
 Rkv. Dk. Reid : At this first meeting, which is 
 Midy of a tentative character, we should discuss only 
 in a general way any statement or papers read. 
 From a general discussiim of the matter of union 
 ue may have a general idea whether there is ,iny 
 likelihood, or any good to be expected from con- 
 iinuing the uKJvement towards union. Nothing has 
 . occurred -and I do not think anything will occur — 
 t'l lead us to think it should be given up ; but I am 
 ilt'cidedly of o[iinion that if we are to succeed it must 
 lie by going on very slowly. I am not by any means 
 s. i sanguine as my excellent friend. Dr. Cochrane, in 
 regard to inimeiliate -or even very near —corporate 
 iiiiion. In reference to the union movements in the 
 I'leshyterian Church, I always was of opinion — in 
 itgard to the last union particularly — that ditticulties 
 iroae partly from endeavouring to go on too rapidly 
 .It lirst. 1 remember a committee was a[)pointed for 
 the purpose of considering the matter of union. They 
 11' it only considered the possibility and desirability of 
 union, but they actually prepared a basis of union, 
 und many were exceedingly anxious to adopt it at 
 lUce. We are not prepared to do that in this case. 
 I have always been desirous ol' union. While T do 
 ii"t think it is very near, I trust, and 1 believe, 
 (li.it in the course of time, in the Prcjvidence of 
 <i"d, there will be even outward union among the 
 professed followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, liut I 
 .tin not so sanguine that it will be brought about by 
 union itself, and negotiations. I believe by an en- 
 larged outpouring of the Spirit of (Jod, and it may 
 lie by Providential dealings, it; may be tliat the 
 ''liristian Church will be forced into union, and it 
 Will then be accomplished, probably, with far greater 
 ease and in far shorter time than by our committees; 
 Wut, 1 think, it will be a very great matter if we can 
 lust go on and recognize one another and co-operate 
 Hitli one another. I think we are not [irepared to 
 'insider or discuss very fully or very closely any paper 
 that may be brought f(U'ward. There should he a 
 :;eneral discussicm at this meeting, and afterwards 
 there will be formal papers prepared and submitted 
 t'iriiially to each of the conunittees, to bo ntaturely 
 iHought out and reported upon, remitted to the 
 ''hurches, and then to a general eomiiiittee. 
 
 I illj ^Ml .-\ I t\.*l A*> 
 
 - . i lie uiiiy piiipwBlt i' 'it is 111 i'crtu it 
 
 !t'cIo by article. Shall we jiroceed in that way t 
 
 l>KA.N CAKMii'HAKt. ; That would lead us at once 
 ■" the closest kind of iliscussiou. It would be more 
 
 beneficial for all of us if we could take away with us 
 the general drift of the paper, namely, that there wag 
 a good deal of union between us if we could only 
 realize it. 
 
 Kev. Dk. Sutherland : My idea was to get the 
 general drift. I did not propose to read it clause by 
 clause, but a section at a time. It could be divided 
 into three or four sections, each treating of a some- 
 what different class of agreement, or partial agree- 
 ment. 
 
 Rev. Dr. Carry : A very small amount of belief 
 should suffice to bind Christians together. Did the 
 Christians of the hrst three centuries have any wider 
 or larger confessi(m of faith than has been agreed to 
 already on the Hoor of this house,' There is not the 
 slightest doubt of our agreement as to the great 
 doctrine of the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, as 
 it has been understood by learned divines in almost 
 every age of the Church, and in every branch of the 
 Church. Surely our belief in the Trinity, if we could 
 only get rid of prejudice and ignorance and narrow- 
 mindedness, would bind us together ; and it will be 
 our condemnation if, believing in one God— the 
 Father, Son, and the H<dy Ghost- we are not one. 
 Then, again, look at the various other points upon 
 which we agree. We believe in the instituti(Ui of 
 great Sacramental rites by our Lord Jesus Christ. 
 We all practise these. We agree in the main points 
 of belief, as we mutually confess ; and are these 
 points not sufficient to unite us, without going into 
 metaphysical or theological subtleties ? These may 
 be left free to opinion ; and, I think, they should be. 
 I ajtpeal to thoii','htful men here if there is not a 
 growing, a rising feeling, in existence against the 
 extension of creeds and confes8i(ms at the present 
 day .' It is that that keeps back thoughtful and edu- 
 cated men, that we impose— or they think that we im- 
 pose -matters of belief upon their consciences. There 
 are a great number of things important, I admit, be- 
 cause right opinion in everything is important, and 
 right opinion in religion especially ; but right opinion, 
 after all, is not faith. There are many right opinions 
 that ought not to be made matters of faith, and in- 
 sisted on as terms of union. The ap(jstle Jude says 
 we are to contend earnestly for the faith. Does faith 
 consist in everything in the Thirty-nine Articles, or in 
 the Westminister Confession of Faith? I think there 
 i.s not a single person here that will say so. I think 
 we may trust our 145 bishops of the Church of Eng- 
 land, who agree unanimonsly to this, that the Creed 
 iif Nieiea was a sufficient expression of faith ; and for 
 my part, I do not care who likes it or dislikes it, 
 I say for myself honestly before (Sod Almighty, and 
 the expression ot mv own honest opinion, 1 want no 
 larger confession of faith than tin.' N'icene Creed: 
 and T can shake hands with my Christian brother 
 whii adopts the Niceiie Creed. We should not go 
 
26 
 
 ri;o(KKi>iM;s of oonfkuknck 
 
 into a (ligcusaion i)f the points raised by the paper 
 read. A very much smaller paper than that oui^ht tn 
 express the faith that would brint; us toijetiier, and 
 keep us together — not merely in a spiritual union, as 
 It is called, but in a manifested union before the 
 whole world. The spiritual and organic unicju have 
 been contrasted here, almost contrasted as thou'^h 
 they were inconsistent. Can we believe that any 
 external organization or rite orthint;at ill was retained 
 by Christ or by His ajiostles 8imi)ly for its own sake .' 
 N(j one believes that ; but external thim's were only 
 used to retain other unseen and spiritual things. The 
 external things are not retained for their own sake, 
 but because they are the shrine in which the spiritual 
 unity is preserved. It is intended to be preserved in 
 a sacred casket. There can be no do\ibt at all tliat 
 in spite of much that has been said by some brethren 
 apparently to the contrary, that the organic unity, the 
 visible unity, of the Church, has been a great means 
 of maintaining spiritual unity. Of course spiritual 
 unity is not always and invariably inevitable upon 
 the result of organic union ; but organic unity is in- 
 tended to tend to the maintenance of unity of tiie 
 Spirit. Therefore, I hope, none of us will go away 
 from here thinking that before we can come together 
 as one body in Christ, and manifestly as one body be- 
 fore the world, that we must agree to a long confts- 
 sion of faith. I hope 1 shall never live to see that 
 long confession of faith. I hope we will all hold 
 steadfastly to the true faith of .lesus Christ, <}od the 
 Father, Son, and Holy fihost, and the plain ordinances 
 of Jesus Christ, and leave metaphysical subtleties and 
 theological distinctions for ever alone. 
 
 Rev. Princihai. Cavkn : I feel very much indebted 
 to the Dean of Montreal for drawing up the very clear 
 and succinct paper that has been read. It is a very 
 great advantage to the Co'iferonce to know that he 
 represents, not only his own sentiments, but gen- 
 erally the sentiments of his l)rethren of the Churcii 
 of England. As I understand the matter before us, 
 it is not that of the adoption of a creed. I think 
 it would be a mistake to raise that i|Uestion now. 
 It is not the adoption of a creed we are discussint;, 
 and hence it is scarcely relevant to consider whether 
 this document is too long or too short. .\s I under- 
 stand it, the object of this Conference is to ascertain 
 the measure of agreement there is. It is i|uite possi- 
 ble that <jne who thinks this document sutticiently 
 long for a Church confession might assent to it, and 
 it is i)o8siblc he might not ; but that is not the poitit 
 at all. This paper is based uj)on a comiiarisori of the 
 standards of the v-irious Churches, and hence, I think. 
 it is a valuable contribution to the i)resent discussion. 
 
 • 11'' ii'xji, j:r::{;::oC ,■'; i"i;rcr JIIl'' aiiy ^li Laiicti rciurtik.-n 
 
 upon the document : but, perhaps, you will allow rliis 
 remark : In listening to it I had a feeling of ly 
 general ooncurrence in the document. So f.^r as i lie 
 
 Presbyterian Church was concerned- for I know a 
 little more about its theology and position gen- 
 erally than I (•m\ venture to say that I di> about the 
 other Churclies — it was a very fair statement of the 
 points referred to. There were only two points that 
 struck me as, possibly liable t(j exception from our 
 [joint of view. I do not wish to make this remark, 
 however, in any oti'ensive way, or as detracting from 
 the value of the jiaper reatl. T' -"neral opinion 
 amongst us Presbyterians — rightly uigly — is that 
 
 we do not differ essentially from t''^ a 'ctrine of the 
 Church of F]ngland touching the inacier of election, 
 (hir opinion is that a comparison of the articles of the 
 Church of England, so far as they bear upon this 
 i|Uestion, with, say, the Westminster Confession or 
 the I leidell)erg Catechi.sm would show general agree- 
 ment in tlieir statement of the Reformation theology. 
 It is an historical fai't that nearly all the Refor- 
 mation Churches concur in their views of what are 
 called the doctrines of grace. < )f course we know 
 the Lutheran side of the Il«jformation diverged to 
 some extent ; but as we understand the doctrine 
 of the Church of England it does not differ essen- 
 tially from our own in that regard. Therefore 1 
 would .sliglitly demur at it being sus/gested that we 
 differ on the doctrine of justiticati<in. I would modify 
 that statement, and say that we in substance agree 
 with the Church of England and the Methodist Church 
 on the doctrine of justitication. .\l8o, I think, the 
 word "absolution, ' whilst, I dare say, we do not dis- 
 sent from the view that is really meant to be expressed, 
 would not be acceptable to us. It does not sound 
 well in our ears. We Presbyterians are just as High 
 Church in our own way, i>ossibly, as the Church of 
 Eiiiland. We believe just as thoroughly and firmly 
 in the Churcli as a divine in.stitution^we believe 
 that the Church is not a voluntary society but a 
 divinely organized body : — that the form of it is 
 laid down in Scrijiture, and tiiat it is our duty, as 
 tar as we can, to abide by the form of the Church 
 which 18 laid down in the Word of (lod. That is 
 our position. So, wiiilst we might ditter in our inter 
 pretation as to the actual form of the Church, it is 
 a great matter tint we do unite in holding that the 
 Church is a >:iviiie institution I think that is of 
 considerable value. Tlicref' c we hold that the 
 Church lias the power of binding and loosing; and 
 that what she binds on earth is bound in Heaven. 
 If I might be allowed to say what the I'resbyterian 
 Church holds ujioii a subject that is very dithcult and 
 com[ilicated in many «ays, 1 ma\ say tliat she inter- 
 prets these Words sim]ily as meaning that the Churcli 
 of Christ h.is real authority of discipline entrusted to 
 it by its Lord, and as h)ng as it kee|»8 within its own 
 inovoici- li.s (icLs are auliioriiiiiiv e ; i iiereioit-, what m 
 bound in earth is bound in Heaven. I trust I have 
 not gone too far. sir, in making this statement. In 
 regard to the i)aper that has been read, I think it 
 
I»N THK STPJr.cT OF t'NITV. 
 
 1'7 
 
 liltbrds a very tine basis, indeed, for comparison of 
 views, and it will prevent us from scatteiintf our 
 remarks in a desultory way. I know no better method 
 of approacliint< the subject than just by taking up this 
 paper. 
 
 Rkv. D. (J. Slthehlanh: The members uf the 
 Methodist deputation are placed somewhat at a dis- 
 advantage in the mattera-that are bnjuj^ht before us. 
 We have been so busy in making our arrangements in 
 connection with the late union of the different Metho- 
 dist bodies consolidating our work, and removing all 
 causes of friction —that really we have had very little 
 time and opportunity to think of this larger question 
 of union that has been brought before us to-day. 
 .Moreover, the Committee that was appointed to 
 attend to the matter has had only one ses.sion, and 
 that a very brief one, osterday morning, in which 
 the conversation was very general. We had no data 
 to work upon : we did not know what turn this meet- 
 ing would take ; and so we find ourselves at a disad- 
 vantage. We came prepared to lirten to what might 
 lie said, but not prepared as a Ixjdy to make or ad- 
 vance any statements, suggestions or propositions in 
 the ntatter. Tiiereforo I waive e.xplanation. In re- 
 gard to this (luestion of doctrine, I do not, myself, 
 see that there will be very great ditl^iculty. I appre- 
 ciate very highly the paper that was jiresented by 
 Di'an Car lichael I think it shows a veiy careful 
 investigation of the formularies of the ditl'erent 
 churches, and, on the whole, is a very clear, fair, full 
 i'stimate of the views of the ilitt'erent bodies. The 
 doctrines of the Methodist Church, coming ;i8 they do 
 largely— we might almost say entirely from the 
 hands and from cho head and from the heart of a 
 Ijiiisbyter of the Church of Kngland, were preventcul 
 irom being very divergent from the doctrines held by 
 tlu! Church of England, if at all. -Vs first presented 
 to us, they weit^ contained in the fifty-two sermons of 
 -Mr. Wesley, prepared by him. specially, to set .orth 
 the doctrinal views of his [leopl'', and in his comments 
 oil the NfW 'j'estament. Since that, tlio .\rticles "i 
 the Church have aUo bei-n made the standard of our 
 doctrine. 
 
 Rkv. Mi{. Bikkk : N\ hat Articles do you refer to — 
 '111' Articles of tl Methodist Church ' 
 
 ilt:\ .D. (J. SuTiiKKi.ANK : 1 was just going to explain, 
 ill pri'parint; the Liturgy a form of woraliip for tlie 
 Mr. Wesley used tlie .Articles of 
 
 Vnierican Churcli 
 
 the Church of England ; reduced them \'i number, 
 made some few alteratiouH in the articles that were 
 retained. We have now, if I am not mistaken, 
 twenty-tive .Articles. The chief chansres were made 
 
 n the way of setting forth his .\rminiaii vievvs, eliini- 
 
 iitint; the doctrine ( f Predestination as held by the 
 t'lesbyterian brethren, and as contaiiit'il in the .Articles 
 
 t the Church of Kiiglaiiil. .Apart fioiu that, I do iio| 
 
 see that there is any very great divergence between 
 our doctrinal views. In listening to the paper, and 
 catchinu tts ideas as carefully as 1 could, there were 
 only one or two ])oints that presented themselves to 
 me as being perhaps at variance with our views, and 
 yet, perhaps, 1 cannot say that they are ; and one was 
 in reference to tlie use of the word " Absolution," 
 and the others in regard to the use and power of the 
 Sacraments. I am not ([uite olear as to what the 
 paper set forth there, and may be there was a differ- 
 ence of opinion ; but, in regard to all general doc- 
 trines of the Christian Church, we may say that 
 we are one. As regards the form of Church gov- 
 ernment, we i)elieve in the power of the Church 
 to ada})t itself to circumstances, and to arrange for 
 such organization, such fonns of organization, as 
 will best effect the work that the Lord Jesus Christ 
 has committed to its hands. We have been exceed- 
 ingly elastic in our modes of working. You can easily 
 understand that in the different forms of working that 
 have been introduced into the Church in the United 
 States, in Australia, and in Canada. We have felt 
 ourselves at liberty to make those alterations wherever 
 we saw it necessary or desirable for the furtherance 
 of the work of the Lord desus Christ. Beyond that, 
 I am not pre[)ared to go at present. 1 am a good deal 
 in harmony with what Dr. Carry said about making 
 our formularies as simple as possible — not going to(» 
 far into the miuutiie, but keeping ourselves in the line 
 of the grand, leading principles which are precious to 
 us all. 
 
 1{kv. C C. Mt'KENZiK(Brantford) : I did not under- 
 stand the paper as a declaration of faith to l)e submit- 
 ted and, therefore, it would be rather premature even 
 to discuss it, because it is simply a statement of facts. 
 Now, I believe all the facts drawn from the Church 
 ot England formularies are almost word for word. If 
 the Dean h.as been led into error in regard to the doc- 
 trines of the Presbyterian or the Methodist Church, 
 he will only be too glad to be corrected. There are 
 certain things we do nor discuss -for instance, the 
 giand truths of ..iir faith. We may discuss cjpiuions 
 respecting them. I am quite sure it is the same with 
 our Pre8byt.,ian and Methodist friends, that what 
 they have laid down ,is the facts of religion thev do 
 not liscus.s ; they accept them as facts ; because we 
 must all make a beginning to agree somewhere. 
 
 \iv.\ Dr. Mi Laken : I listened to the paper with 
 great uteres! and satisfaction, -ludgins; from what 
 I could gather on hearing it read, the Dean seemed 
 to represent our PresViyterian views very correctly. 
 Before being committed to such a diwument, or even 
 to its gem-ral correctness, I would like to have an 
 opportunu >)f reading and studying it carefully, 
 it certainly brought out undeniably the very large 
 amount of aureeiiient which will be found to exist 
 aiiioim the various branches of the Church represented 
 
28 
 
 iM;()ri;i:i)i\(;s ov roNKKKKNCK 
 
 here ; and I was very much pleased with the general 
 tone and character of Hie paper. Perhaps, with the 
 exception of the points referred to by Principal (.'aven, 
 there was nothing struck me that I would take excep- 
 tion to just in hearing it. In regard to the general ques- 
 tion of a doctrinal basis, I feel slightly doubtful of the 
 position tak( by my friend Dr. Carry in the remarks 
 which he made. I will say frankly that I believe that 
 God has been teaching His Cburch, by His Spirit and 
 by His Providence, something since the Council of 
 NiCfea — something that we ought to hand down to 
 our posterity ; and therefore I am not prepared to 
 cut short, as it were, the dogmatic attainments of 
 the Church at any particular date, and say that 
 we are to make this our basis up to such a point 
 of time, and that there is nothing further to be 
 inserted in our doctrinal basis after that. I be- 
 lieve, for example, tiiat the era of Reformatiim 
 brought with it a very C(msiderable addition to 
 the light enjoyed by the Christian Church, and that 
 we did learn something, for instance, on the doctrine 
 of justification by faith, which up to that time had 
 not been so dehritely understood as it was then. I 
 should be very sorry that we would be relegated 
 back to .i^f) for all that we were to hold, upon 
 such a point as that. I believe there has been devel- 
 opment in the Christian Church in doctrine, and that 
 we may expect it eveii in the future. I would not like 
 to be cut short even at the present time. I believe in 
 all the essential verities, we will be found to have got 
 to the trutlj, but [ do not think that we should settle 
 down to any particular date and say, " Up to this time 
 we vill go with the ancient Church, and tlien stop 
 short and learn nothing from the teaching of the 
 Divine Spirit and from fiod's Providence and the 
 enlightened studies of tiie Christian Church in the cen- 
 turies following." Wt'll, of course that throws upnn us 
 a very important (juestion we .shall have to examine, if 
 we get the length of forming a creed -What should be 
 admitted and what should not ( I admit that we may 
 have too large a creed, just as well as too short a one : 
 and it would be a very important nnd very interesting 
 point for us to determine what should be the kind of 
 articles admitted, and wiiat rejected, if we were form- 
 ing a creed for a body that was to represent, for exam- 
 ple, the three section.s that are iimw negotiating as to 
 union. I would like to say a single word -although 
 perhaps it is not so relevant to what we have now 
 before us on the general question of uni(m, as I did 
 not say anything on the (luestion of organic union in 
 the morning. I sympathise very much with the view 
 jiresented by Principal Caven in that paper which lie 
 read, although I was not iiuite prepared to say that 
 individually I would like to be at once, at any rate, 
 coiaiiiiiied irrevocabiy t(j tiie exegesis wiiich he "ave 
 of those words in our Lord's intercessory prayer. I 
 I had some little doubt on that point, but I have 
 n.. doubt that tlie ideal Chmch, in any jjarticular 
 
 country where it exists, is to be a united body, and 
 that we ought to aim at that as far as we possibly can ; 
 a'ld therefore I think uur movement here is a legiti- 
 mate movement. I admit, however, that there are 
 very grave dithculties in the way— ditticulties which I, 
 myself, am not very sanguine of seeing in my own day 
 overcome. I should lie delighted to think that they 
 could be : but 1 think that we do well, at any rate, to 
 aim at it and to cultivate the spirit which tends in that 
 direction ; and it maj' be with us as it was with 
 Columbus, when he set out to discover India — he did 
 not discover India but he discovered something which 
 was (|uite as important ; and if we do not get tht? 
 organic unity at which we are aiming, we may get a 
 united spirit and be able to work to^jether in brotherly 
 love, and be able to manifest to the world tliat we are 
 all one in Christ .Jesus. I think we may make very 
 marked progress in that direction even if we should 
 fail, unfortunately, in the other. 
 
 Rev. Seftimi s Jones: I think it would be a very 
 great mistake of our Conference if we found any 
 inordinate expressions in regard to the outcome of 
 this Conference, or if we should feel that we were 
 liable to be challenged when thi; Conference was over 
 as to what we had accomplislu-i, and should be in any 
 sense ashamed of it, because wi; are not able to jiresent 
 anything formulated or anything very definite in 
 regard to what we have attained to in this Conference. 
 I know from the spirit of courtesy displayed by the 
 gentleman who made the observation that he could 
 not possibly have intended it in any other way than a 
 kindly and brotherly way, while it struck me that it 
 was a little on one side of the actual spirit of thi.s 
 C(jnference to say that any [jcrson should come just 
 simply to hear what the otliers had to say. I think it 
 is more like this : Here are brethren who have been, 
 for some cause or other, estranged in the eye of the 
 world, and they say, "Now, is there any way tliat 
 we can possibly arrange and coin[)ose this matter ' 
 Won't you come and talk it over '." If anybody were 
 to sit and say, " What are your propositions .' 1 am 
 (juie willing to hear any [iropositions you have to 
 make,' it would not foster that feeling. T think the 
 attitude we are in is just tliis : W'v feel that we have 
 been moved by the Spirit of (Jod to come together in 
 one place in order that we may confer and see whether 
 it is not possible for us to be brought nearer together 
 than we are at present, and that that is the great object 
 for which we are coining together — not to formulate 
 anything ; not to say we are prepared to o,, back and 
 recommend this, that, or the other ; but simply t<. 
 .say, " We have come together to find a much larger 
 feeling of unity and agreement than is generally sup- 
 posed to exist between these three branches of the 
 Church of Christ ; we highly recommend that these 
 tJonferences be continued from time to time, nnd that 
 every etV(»rt sliould be made to foster and keep alive in 
 
ox THK SI M.rKCT OK I'MTN. 
 
 » 
 
 lie Church the cinivictioii that the divisions that exist 
 ire to he deplored ; that tlie Head (jf the Chiircli is to 
 lie prayed (o iiioxe the heails of men more and more 
 In come totfether ; and that all leiiitimate and hu|)cful 
 means should he used to remove misa|piireiiensions 
 md to cultivate a prayerful intercourse ami friendly 
 fi-eliny in the several branches of the ("lunch. I tliink 
 if we fully grasped that idea, that we are brouj/ht to- 
 (;ether here by the conviction that it is the will of the 
 (Ireat Head of the Church that we should be more 
 iniited than we are, and that we are looking about 
 anxiously and prayerfully to see what can be done to 
 bring us together, that ve shall not be ashamed then 
 to go back from this Conference and say to tliose 
 who delegated us, " We have not attained to any 
 specific matter in black and white, we have not got so 
 far, but we have certainly developed, we think, a 
 spirit of unity, and manifested it, that encourages us 
 Id recommend to our several religious bodies that they 
 should continue these negotiations from time to cime, 
 in the hope that they will bring forth still larger and 
 more ho[)eful fruit. In regard to that paper, its object 
 IS not by any means to present to you a liasis of doc- 
 irine. The object is n(}t to say, " Here are the 
 materials of a creed." The idea is simply this, that 
 brethren in a general way say, " We are much more 
 idike in doctrine than was supposed, and here are the 
 facts which show that. We may not think that in each 
 i particular instance our particular doctrine is stated in 
 ihe precise form we would endorse ; but taking a sur- 
 vey of the whole field it is very clear that there is a 
 very general agreement;'" and if, at a 8ubse(|Uent 
 Conference, each delegation should bring forward 
 some paper like that it would have .i very good elTect 
 if we go home and study one another s formuLirics. 
 Let me get better acquainted with the Westminstei* 
 Confession than I am now: it would do me a great 
 (leal of <,'(jod, probably ; and so with the formularies 
 of the Methodist Church. In tliat way we should get 
 to know one another better, and have or.r prejudices 
 removed, and he\\) to remove them from the minds of 
 the peo[)le. I think tlieditticidty will be much greater 
 liitween the clergy than between the people. I think 
 the laity would be far less liable to i)ojgle over this 
 thing and raise ditticulties than the clergy themselves. 
 Hut, if we can get the shepherds to put tlieir heails 
 iiid hearts together, it will not be very long before 
 I he flocks gather together. We ought to have L;ieai 
 patienoe waiting for the fruits of this meeting. '" The 
 husbandman waiteth for the precious fruits of the 
 earth. ' !t is not for us to gather the fruit before it 
 IS ripe, or it woidd be sour to our taste. Let us wait 
 ' Jod's good time, and let us work along in the line on 
 uliich I think He is providentially leading us, and 
 vlien the time comes, and the doors of Providence 
 ire opened, we shall see, i)erhap8, a movement of 
 'he progress of which »e have now \t'i'y .slight 
 uceplion. 
 
 The CuAiitMAN : The proposition ti; read the paper 
 in sections is sim) ly to aid the memory. Now I wani 
 to point out this difficulty. For instance, in the [>aper 
 it is stated that ab.solution in some form is found in 
 all the formularies. Now. any .Methodist in this land 
 that understands anything about his formidaries wculd 
 be horrified at the word '' absolutiim.' Now, he may 
 .ittach another nieaning to the word " absolution. 
 Kow, the exact lanL'uage of the formulary, not being 
 (|uoted in the excellent pai)er, but perhaps with a 
 gloss or interpretation, in that way is itself made to 
 bear a construction that certainly we would not our- 
 selves assent to. .\s I understand the proposition of 
 Dr. Sutherland, it was simply to have enough of it 
 read to bring the thing to mind, and then if there was 
 anything where there was a misunderstanding we 
 would explain it, that is ;ill— not to touch the matter 
 at all as a basis of union ; and J can understand why 
 it is that some brethren are not free to explain, because 
 t liking broadly over the whole paper. 
 
 I^Very Rev. Dean Carmichael then read the paper 
 section by section. 
 
 Rev. Dr. Si'theklanh asked the meanint; of the 
 expression, "generally necessary to salvation. ' 
 
 Dean Cakmkhael : I found that, 1 think, as a fair 
 matter of deduction. If I do not mistake, I based it 
 on the fact that it was the outward and visible sign of 
 an inward and spiritual grace, which all true Methodists 
 no doubt honestly and sincerely believe. 
 
 Re\ . Di!. Wii,i,iAMs : The ex|)re88ion does not occur 
 in any Methodist document I have seen. The only 
 thinu that we think is necessary to salvation is saving 
 faith in Christ. 
 
 Re\ . I'konost l{niPN : The Dean inserted that ex- 
 jjression to separate the two Sacraments of the (lospel 
 from any other rite.s, such as Confirmation, or Orders. 
 
 Hk\. Di{. Dewakt : It is probalile that it may bear 
 a sense which, if ex|)lained, none of us would object 
 to: but it is capalile of bearing a construction \> Inch 
 Would be objected to. 
 
 Dean CAU\iirH AKi. : This iiai)ei' is only the outline 
 of a book, and it is goint; to be published, and 1 shall 
 be very hap[)y to see that I am [lerfectly light in any 
 statement I make. The l)ook lias been [n:blished aiid 
 gone throiiLih two editions already, and I have never 
 had an ol>jec:tion made to it. 
 
 The Chaikman: The i|Uestion arises — "Have I 
 exjiressed these views as the other brethren accept 
 them '. " 
 
 ., ,1 * 1, ., i. 
 
 to know. 
 
 PuiNcifAi, Dn MONK ; The paper cannot he altered. 
 We have a ahoi (hand i'e[iort, in order that any explana- 
 
.Ml 
 
 l'i;()( Ki:i»i\<;s ok conkkkknck 
 
 tKJiis or protests or ohjoctions iimy ho matters of 
 record. Now tho Sni.eniiten.leiit of the Methodist 
 »)ody has told us he knows of no such exj.rfsr,ioii as 
 that. Another i^entU'inan has told ns that the cxpres 
 sion read barely niii/lit be liabh' to misconstruction. 
 All that IS a matter of record. We have no news|)ai.er 
 reporters jiresont to publish what the Dean has stated. 
 These gentlemen's protests or criticisms of it remain, 
 and must <^i< forth to the world. That beiiiu' said, all 
 is done that can be done. 
 
 Rkv. Dk. Reid 8u;,'<,'e8ted that tlie paper be not dis- 
 cussed, but be printed so that it may be carefully 
 examined. 
 
 Rev. Dk. l'K(>rDK(.uT thouyht tne Dean had bor- 
 rowed the phrase partly from the Church of England 
 Catechism and partly from the Presbyterian, whirli, in 
 dehnini,' the visible Church, uses the e.vpression, "out 
 of whicli there is no <irdinary possibility of salvation." 
 
 Rkv. Dr. Dkwakt : No, it is taken directlv 
 the Church Catechism, in answer to a ((Uestion. 
 
 Rkv. Dk. Lmsh : < Hir Catechism also says, 
 outward and ordinary means," etc. 
 
 Rkv. Dk. Sei.gwi.k : "All of wiiich are made 
 eriectual to the elect for salvation. ' 
 
 Rkv. Dk. PKori.Konr sut^^ested tlie words, 
 Christ," after the word engrafted."" We mea 
 baptism is a symb(jl which signifies our eii^traftinu into 
 Christ. It is " a sii;n and seal of our engrafting into 
 Christ, and our engagement to be the Lord's." 
 
 Dea.n C.\kmi( hakl : ! based mv facts on the follow- 
 in- <, notations :" The Presbyterian (Church teaches 
 in its C .nfession that Itaptism is a simi and seal of the 
 covenant of grace, of engrafting into ('hri.st, of re-'en- 
 eration, of remission ,.f sins," etc. Then the Crunch 
 of England teaches that " baptism is a sign of regen- 
 eration or a new l>irtli, whereby they that receive hap- 
 tisni rightly are grafted into the Church "" The 
 Me^hf.dist Church teaches in its 17th Article that 
 ' baptism 13 a sign of regeneration or tlii' new birth. " 
 
 Rev. Dk. Dkwakt: I sympathize with what has been 
 said about the dithctilty of discussing this paper. It 
 has come l)efore us in a somewiiat awkward way Ft 
 seems as if we must not discuss it. I do not want to 
 say a word against this pai>er, imt if this [ aper is pass- 
 intr this Conference an.l going out to the world as if 
 we have approved and endorsed it, then we certainly 
 should have .something to say about the .shape in which 
 It appears. That whole paragrajdi about baptism may 
 be explained in a way to which I would take no excep- 
 tion. It mi.'ht also be explained in a way that would 
 
 moan flwk .1..^,...'.... . £ 1 ., . .1 .' 1 _ .* 
 
 1 take decided objection. It might be explained as if 
 baptism Itself was a means of brin^inu the baptised 
 into gracious relation t,, Chri.st. wliile my i.lea is that 
 
 from 
 
 Tht 
 
 into 
 that 
 
 we baptize l)ecau8e those who are the proper subjects 
 of baptism by virtue of their relation to Christ have 
 ■' H ngjit to that sign of their condition. So that il i> 
 n<it merely for the sake of talking or discussing ; but 
 il the pap.r is merely to pass I do not want to delay 
 about it ; Ijut I very decidedly objeit to anything being 
 put as something adopted by tnis Conference that is 
 fairly oral all plausibly open to an interpretation that 
 I .vould be obliged to reject. 
 
 A DKLE(iATE : We are not adopting it. 
 
 Dean Cakmk hakl : If there was a resolution passed 
 almost unanimously th'^t this should go out with the 
 impriiiiatur of this meeting, I, myself, would be the 
 one man to vote against it going out. If I sto.)d alone, 
 I would vote against it going out, for the simple reason 
 that such tremendous, solemn subjects will take, it 
 may be, years. 
 
 Rev. Dr. MocKKiixiE : What is the reason for reading 
 It section by section if we are not to get a little more 
 light from it / 
 
 The Chaik.man : Why not say, " We don't quite 
 agree with the expression," and pass on? 
 
 Rk\ Dk M( Lakes : I take it that we Presbyterians 
 would hesitate al)outacceptin:,' that as a fair statement 
 of our position, i think we would not, after thinking 
 over it, ;.(.. on the (|ue8tion whether that would be 
 accepted as a fair statement of the Presbyterian 
 position on baptism, 
 
 Dean Car.mich.^ei. : Well, that shows the necessity 
 
 for the most careful consideration on all these p(.ints 
 
 Rev. S. Jones: And the imi)ortance of continiii" 
 
 yourself to the very words of the standards of tin 
 
 »several churches. 
 
 [The reading was then continued.] 
 
 Rkv. Dk. Pk<»ii.ko()t : We could not discuss that, 
 because the wholeqiiestioii of sacramental grace wouhi 
 collie u\) here. 
 
 Thk Chaikma.n : We will just take that as poati-oned 
 Rkv. E. ]\ Crawfokii: It was not intended 
 when these papers were i-repared that they shoul.l 
 be presented to this Conference. They merely pre 
 .sented the ground on which we were to speak and 
 act here. It was not intended that any foriiuilateii 
 ilocument should be presented her.' at all. I confes- 
 I know n. .thing about the Presbyterian Confession o\ 
 Faith, or the Discipline of the Methodist Church. I 
 was very glad. theief,.re, t.. get the paper. But w. 
 are driven into a number of ijuestions that must com. 
 lip at a later i)eriod an<l be thoroughly threshed out 
 It would liave been better if that nai.er bad n..t h^,.> 
 read at all, and It we just had had a general discussion a 
 far as we could make it about the agreement betweei, 
 the ditterent bodies represented. I think we had bettei 
 pass on to the next paper. 
 
ON THK srii.lKCT OK INITV 
 
 Krv. Dr. Ryi'kman : It seeiuB lo ine that this meet- 
 
 II.; is takinji the course we desire. It was learnt 
 
 'hilt Dr <"arniichael had a paper of this description. 
 
 It was very much desired by the Methodist brethren 
 
 'liat this paper should be read. It was called for by 
 
 I'lfsbyterian brethren. I experience the ditticnlty 
 
 iliatat one readini; we could i»ot i(et hold of it. It 
 
 iiiiiht as well not be read at all, for all we can slather. 
 
 I liiue was a i,'eneral desire that it should be read aj<ain, 
 
 iiid section by section, so as to permit us to master it 
 
 ii far as we poisibly could do by mere reading. I 
 
 lon't think it was the intent'on of this Conference 
 
 liiit these items sb.ould be discussed and yet we are 
 
 liiini; into what we don't intend — a discu.ssion of 
 
 licse [xiints. Let us avoid that. There is no d.iu 4 
 
 lat Dean (Jarinichael. fr"m the standpoint of a (Munch 
 
 I Kn<<land Cleri,'yiii.in, has t,'iven a very excellent 
 
 liowing of those harmonies amongst the standards of 
 
 'hese ditTereiit churches. He has not hit the nail ex 
 
 ,1 tly on the iiead every time, as I see it as a Methrxlist, 
 
 ' 1 these Presbyterian brethren see it. He did not say 
 
 11 when he was reading it, nor the Church of England 
 
 futhren <lid not say it; but, after all. I think we are 
 
 _■ iinirii,' something \>y havin.; these thini^s read and 
 
 »r need not discuss them. I feel like takini,' this 
 
 'sition myself, and, in a kind of prefatory way, say, 
 
 ■■Lit our VTethodist brethren have not been bound to 
 
 > ly any particular thinj; ; and, tlierefore. this is a kind 
 
 ; a !j;o- is-yoii ple;ise race, so far as the Methodists are 
 
 'ucerned ; and the Methodists do not bind the 
 
 I hiirch. .John Wesley preached the doctrines of the 
 
 I hurch of En<{land, and a(>ainst every attack made by 
 
 embers of the t'hurch of England and ministers, his 
 
 Miiform defence was that his doctrines were to be 
 
 ' iMid in the Prayer Book and Homilies of the Ciiurch 
 
 Eni.;land. Tha' was John Wesley s contention. 
 
 \V'I1, now, as a Muhodist, I claim that I hold the 
 
 I rtrines of John Wesley. .\n<l if they ar^» the doc- 
 
 •■iiiesof the Church of England, why, then, we are 
 
 r one. That is speakini,' in a general way. Now, if 
 
 t'tween that time and this you have fallen upon any 
 
 , w method I am speaking now of the clergy of the 
 
 ' iUrch of England— any new method of explaining 
 
 \ iir doctrines, there might arise some ditlerence be- 
 
 lueen you and me; but, if you are what you were, I 
 
 'liink it may be taken for the purpose of the present 
 
 ''lit. as a t;eneral thing, we are very much at one. 
 
 "^ v. that is a matter of tact ; what is the use of say- 
 
 '■-' anything else ? I'ntil we come down to miniiti;i' 
 
 ■i 1 the merest details, we do not Hnd lar^e differences 
 
 i am speaking now of the Methodist Church and the 
 
 ' urch of England. May I say this, then, without 
 
 '"■lice : I do not think there is as much ditt'erenco 
 
 ' tween ourselves, as Methodists, in regard to doc- 
 
 'iiial points, and liie Uhurcii of Engianu, as tiiere is 
 
 ' 'ween the Church 'f England and the Church of 
 
 ! ui,'land in regard to statements of certa'n points of 
 
 ■" ' ipture doctrine and teaching, and in regard to faith. 
 
 Now, I think it is not wronj? to say that. Well, now, 
 I 'Ion t think we ought to go into those details. Wo 
 arc not after them now. We are not st-ekiuj^ <ifter 
 miniitiii-. It is to get a general idea of how near we 
 are together. I think the next thini^ that will come 
 will be to get an idea of how far we are apart. My 
 face is towards (;or|>orate union. I believe that most 
 of those who have spoken here— and I think I may 
 say I believe that everyone that has spoken, although 
 some of the .Methodist Ijrethren have seemed to differ 
 from some others in roifard to the exegesis of a certain 
 l)as3a'ge of Scripture I think we all hold - 1 think I 
 must speak Cor our Methodist brethren of our delcL'a- 
 tion as well as the others that the spiritual unity ur 
 "iieiies.s of the Church of Christ is the thing that our 
 Saviour taught and desiderated in the Scriptures. I 
 hold with Dr. t.'aven, that the unity ',r oneness of the 
 Christian Church cannot be fully manifested without 
 ail external uni'iii as well. Now, the chief thing in 
 all <iur othces of worship is the heart, tin spirit, the 
 sincerity in these thi lys ; but, there is some import- 
 ance to be attached also to the external form of 
 wiu-slup, alt'ioiigh the spirit is the chief thing. And 
 so in regard to the oneness of the children of (iod 
 the rtrst and principal tiling is that spiritual, living 
 unity, that I think we all desire and should cultivate 
 probably mure than we do ; and I think we all ought 
 also to a'ln at ihe ultimate corporate uiikui of the body 
 of Christ. I want to say another thing : — I hope to 
 see that. Perhaps I am imt as old a man us my friend. 
 Prof. McLaren. He hardly thought that he should 
 see that in his <lay ; he seemed to have hardly such an 
 expectation. May I say that I do have an expectation ; 
 I certainly have a hope that 1 shall see this in my day. 
 Tile march of events is very rapiil in these day*. Wit- 
 ness this very scene that is before us to day. Who 
 would have prophesied this three years asjo '. I declare 
 to you, brethren, that it came as a very pleasant shock 
 into our (ienural Conference when we received a com- 
 munication from the Provincial Synod of Montreal, 
 originating in the House of Bishojis, asking that we 
 appoint our cimtin<.ient on a Joint Committee to meet 
 to consider this <|uestioii as we are met to-day. Well, 
 what next ' The march of events is very rapid, and 
 these things may hasten in such a wp.y as to astonish 
 some of us. Now, while we are not looking after de- 
 tails or the iiiinutiif "f a basis of union, I think that 
 our Church of Englaml brethren, at whose invitation 
 we are here present to-day, might astonish many of us 
 when we came to tind out the concessions that they 
 were willing to make in ordev to formulate a basis of 
 union iipiui which we three branches of the Church 
 could stand in common. No*-, I am prepared for a 
 surprise. When the time comes it would not be very 
 surprising io me — li is not to me now a n ery strong 
 improbability, and certainly not a matter of impossi- 
 bility, that a common ground sluuild be found tor us 
 three branches to stand upon in complete communion, 
 
•ij 
 
 i'i;o('Ki;i»lNt;s ok (•iiM'i;i!|;n<k 
 
 which I thmk .lU^'ht to be di'sifleratcd. I shiill livf, 
 thorufiire, in hope of s.-fint,' liefon- I di.- ii i'or|ioi;iti' 
 iiiiidii of the Churches Some liave feared our luoviiiu' 
 too nipidly. Now. I nuiy bo too minuuiu.'. hut uiy 
 tear is that we shall Mot mo\e fast eiiou^jh I do uol 
 think that we have in the past come ii|> to this point 
 as rapidly as we oU','ht to iiave don(\ I do not think 
 we shall ti<> too rapidly ui takiiii,' eaoh other by the 
 hand and nianilestin-. hrst of ail. a Christian spirit »{ 
 brotherluiess and Christian influence. Let us move a 
 little faster in tliat direction, and the fhiii!,' that we 
 • lesirc will come a little more rapidlv >ui that account. 
 I do not think it will com,, toi, soon. May (iod jmsten 
 the 'lay. 
 
 Mk. U \i. Ini k: 1 have received a :,'reat deal o( in- 
 .struction from the remarks yesterday and today. I 
 hope to hear more ; therefore. I sincerely trust that 
 rhe.se ob|ectioiis will be stated to the ineetins,'. to anj - 
 thm^' that the Dean lias put in this paper, s(. tliat I, 
 an<l I presume others, too, may know the ditfereiices 
 that exist bilween oiir.selves and the otiier CIiuicIks. 
 I think It would be a matter of 1,'reat instruction 
 and pleasure to me v know the point-? of ditference 
 between us. 
 
 Dkan (.'.utMic iixKi. : I am now readiiej under tiie 
 head ot '"Doctrines ca|)able of beinu brought into 
 uioie perfect accord. If the 'gentlemen would please 
 bear that in mind. 
 
 TiiK Cii.viu\i\.\ : Then ail they Iiave to say is 
 " .Amen ! ' 
 
 1{k\. .\. W. Sik.nckk: Necessarily tiiese Ktateiiuiits 
 of doctrine ire imperfect because tliey a.c not in full. 
 
 Dean Carmiciiaei reads the part relatin- to pisti 
 hcation.] 
 
 ivK\. Du. runriu Tile doctrine of election IS not 
 
 broiiuiit 111 tile Uestmiiistcr (.'onfessioii in connection 
 with justiiicatioii at ail. 
 
 I Dean Carmicliael n-ails the pMs.sa^ie reiatiiii; to 
 ai)8<dutioii. I 
 
 Kkv. Du. Cw kn : My exception was to the word. 
 
 De.\.n C.xumk haki, : I i,rot tiie word in a •,'eiieral 
 sense, as ati'ordinu' possible ground between us— 
 coininon ground. ! yot it from the Presbyterian Con- 
 fession of Faith in the sin-iiiarlv luauniticeiit pa.s.sa<,'e 
 which reads thus : •■ The Lord Jesus Christ iiaviu:,' 
 appointed otticers distinct from the civil magistrates'^ 
 to those otticers the Keys of the Kin.jdoni of" Heaven 
 are committed, liy virtue wliereuf they have power 
 respectively to retain and remit sins, shuttiiii,' that 
 Kinj/doni at^ainst the impenitent by \\:.rc\ ,,( censure, 
 and to open it to penitent sinners by the <;os|iel.' 1 
 took the word " absolution ' i„ coiuiecti'ui witii s,,mc 
 cominun I'lound. 
 
 \lr.\. Dit. Cavkn : Ttie absolution isaiisolution from 
 
 censure. 
 
 Uks. Dk. DKWAKr: Tlu.s is another case in which ihe 
 phrase and the whole connection inif^ht bo so (explained 
 that I could accept it, and think it all ri;<ht. 
 
 Dk\n (^^K\1I(HAKl. : That is exactly what I thought. 
 
 Krv. Dk. DKWxKr: !{utowinj,'to the historic rneanin;; 
 that has lieen coiinocted with tlie word, it would be to 
 iiie a daii>,'«rous word, and an <d)jectionablo word, 
 because all that it means could be said in scriptural 
 terms in a dear and unexceptional way. 
 
 Dka.n Cakmhiiaki. : The won! " altsolution " wjis 
 put in L;uardedly - " ab.solution in soino shape or 
 form." I would not like any i,'entleman to feel that I 
 iiad made use of any lanmiaye that could brini,' any 
 waul .if harmony. It is fcu- tliai reason that i have 
 explained. 
 
 Kk\. Dk. ritoiDKoor : In that clau.se referniiL; to 
 the power ol the Church there is a [loint that was dis 
 imted keenly between the Presbyterian Church and 
 [U-eiatic bodies tiiat is, the |>ower .)f tlie Churcli to 
 decree rites and ceremonies, to make them binding on 
 the people of (Jod. That was an elaborate discussion 
 that was prosecuted to a great extent. There will be 
 a ditference of ojiinion as to that, because the whole 
 .|Uestion of the I'opish Saints Days and cereiiKuiiea 
 comes in there. 
 
 • hhoK MiDoNAi.i. ; This paper was not intended 
 for submi.ssion to this Conference ; but the Churcli of 
 Eiiiiland Committee took from the Dean, ;u» one who 
 lia.l made a study of the matter, tiie general thoughts 
 asexpres.sed there, «itli i)erhaps S(une little niodirica- 
 
 ' • '^"V'-, it is for the purpose of instruction that 
 
 tiiat 18 prepared : and I trust that as the clauses are 
 read the l)rotliers from (he other Churches will .say, 
 " tlur thought is this,' and "Our thought is that." 
 
 I'ui.Ncii'Ai, DvMOM. : I claim those gentlemen 
 should rise and state their views, and that we should 
 l)e satisfied to hear them not that a sort of crossfire 
 or friendly argument sliould be going on between the 
 reader of tht; pai>er and those gentlemen ; but that 
 tliey aliould state all that they ought to say, and that 
 that slKuild be a matter of record for the shorthand 
 writers notes for the future, to show that they did 
 not as.sent fully to the pajier. 
 
 |{k\ . Dii. SiTHKKLAMi : I wisli to express my very 
 honest admiration of that admirable paper. I think 
 it has helped to clear the situation very niucli, and 
 bring some (.oints before us more ilefinitely than could 
 otherwise have lieen done. As I understand it, the 
 ......... ..._...... .._ ;;-j^;:j :- ccriaiii piiinio 111 vviiicii it 
 
 IS thought that the formularies of the Church may be 
 l)ronght into more perfect accord. That seems to 
 imply 'hat as far as the form of speech is concerned 
 
ox TMK SlH.lK«r MF fMTV 
 
 .« 
 
 they are not in perfect accord just now, tind that these 
 lire points which, perhaps, by a re-statement would be 
 Hceepted by >tll the churches roprosontod h«r«. Tlie 
 lomarks made by Principal Caven, I think, stated the 
 . ase very clearly, and in a way that, I i.elieve, would 
 t)e accepted by those representiiii,' the Methodist 
 < 'hurch. Callin>< it U[) just now from inemorv, 1 think 
 hat, perhaps, in the statements read touching the Sac 
 laments, we have just there one of the points in which, 
 I't-rhaps, some re-stateiaent would be necessary t.> 
 secure perfect harmony of belief or view in the matter. 
 I mean just in this way. (Jeneral words hii\o been 
 employed, in the ditferent statements ..f belief, that 
 ire capable of various interprotatifjiis, and, therefore, 
 ve may, perhaps, be disputinjj if we dispute at all 
 not about what is really contained in the article in 
 (Uestion, but about interpretations that individuals 
 ir communions may put upon that phraseology : and, 
 t seems to me, what we want to reacii, if we can, ii'i 
 the future some time, is such a statement that there 
 •nil not be liability to misconstruction, or a great 
 ■iivorsity of interpretation put ui)on it, f(jr, as we all 
 Miow, every once in a while we are called upon t.. 
 interpret our own standards -I presume that is true 
 ■f our own Church— and individuals will ask, " What 
 1" you mean by this statement'" and it is needful 
 'hen to have a statement, if we can, so clearly nnd 
 lucidly put, that there will not be a great i)ppi>r 
 luiiity for difference of interpretation, the phrase, 
 ■generally necessary to salvation," would at once 
 I idl for interpretation ; and almost any one might 
 very naturally ask a minister, " What do you mean 
 I 'y this statement, ' generally necessary ' ' " Another 
 li"int was, this matter touching the power of the 
 i-'hurch. 1 thought that Dr. Caven stated that very 
 
 • learly in the remarks which he made. The way that 
 • curs to my mind would be about like this : I would 
 
 'It'sire that portion to be so stated that, on the one 
 
 naiid, tlie Church may not be unfaithful in the exer- 
 
 isf of a power which the Head of the Church has 
 
 lit in her hands, and, on the other hand, that power 
 
 ^li'iuld not be carried beyr)nd the limits wtiere it has 
 
 •"•en placed in the teachings of the .Master; and as 
 
 ><■ recall Church hist(.ry, we remember at once how 
 
 ^••ry seiious difficulties have ari.sen along that line. 
 
 i rliaps by canying the authority of the Church to a 
 
 I ■lilt far beyond where the Master put it, and, per- 
 
 i.ips, on the other hand, being unfaithful in the use 
 
 I a legitimate authority that was put there. Now. I 
 
 ■I'ubt not, we all hold to this most earnestlv, that in 
 
 • 'e forgiveness of sins— to fall back upon the expres- 
 - '11 of the Apostles' Creed— that we look upon that 
 'i-t only as a truth clearly taught in Scripture, but as a 
 i iessed fact in human experience to those who have 
 ■ " oivou Ciirist as their personal Saviour. With re- 
 
 ird to absolution from Church censures, such as the 
 'hurch has authority to imp(i8e, that, 1 think, we can 
 ■iiderstand, would be agreed lipon. Where, perhaps. 
 
 we would object to tlie use of the word " absolution, ' 
 IS the danger that arises from carrying authority into 
 a region that, I do not think, the Master gave any 
 authority to carry it, and it might lead, in the end, to 
 claiming a spiritual authority which I am only ex- 
 pressing luy own opinion— the Church does not pos 
 sess. Now, if we can, in the course of these conver- 
 ■•iations, see any way by which--by and-by, perhaps, 
 not to day -the re-statement of these truths will com' 
 mand the accejitance ..f all the Churches who are 
 represented, a most im|M,rtant point will be gained, 
 and we shall esca|)e wliat has been a serious difficulty 
 in the i)ast, that is, the danger of perpetually misunder 
 standings as to what we mean by certain statements. 
 
 (Clause as to Public Worship read. | 
 
 Hkv. Dk. Dkwakt : Perhaps the statement is a little 
 too strong as to the degree in which the liturgy is used 
 111 the -Methodist Church. When it is said, " not re 
 stricted to its use," it would seem as if the use of 
 liturgy was the prevalent thin^, and the non-use the 
 wxception, whereas it is the other way. 
 
 Dea.n Cakmuhakl : What I meant largely was that 
 111 regard to the most solemn rites, in the AIeth(.di8t 
 Church there are prescribed forms of prayer. 
 
 Kkv. Pkuvost Moi.v : L>id not John Wesley prepare a 
 prayer-tiook from our liturgy for the use of his own 
 body ( 
 
 Rev. Uk. Dkwakt That is true. However, it is not 
 used except m England. As far as I tind, they read 
 the services from the Church of England prayer-book. 
 In the Churches I have been in in England 1 have not 
 found the abbreviated Churcli Services of Mr. Wesley 
 in use, but they used partly the Church of England 
 liturgy. But we are speaking now of Methodists in 
 Ciiiiada. 
 
 Rev. Dk. Lai.v., : While it is no doubt true that we 
 accept the general truth that the Church is to guide our 
 devotions, it is hardly true t.p sp.y that we are guided 
 by outline prayers. I do not tliirik there is any con 
 uregation in Canada to day which uses outline prayer 
 HI directing public worshij^. I am sure there is not. 
 
 Dean Cakmk hael : Well, sir, I di<l not know 
 
 that. 
 
 Dk. Lain., : It was more prayer as a kintl of model 
 to which we are to accomiuodate ourselves. There 
 IS the reference to tlu' .Mohammedans ami .Moors 
 eiiibodied therein. 
 
 The Chaik.man : ^ Ou need to pray for them yet. 
 
 Da. Laim; : There were things to be prayed for at 
 that date which would be alto!_fetlier out of nl.-i:":-. n-.-.^x: 
 Still, there is a number of Presbyterian Churches which 
 use liturgies. We are not at all restricted. The Church 
 may at any time adopt i;. .Asa matter of fact, some 
 Presbyterian Churches in the United States do use it. 
 
M 
 
 ri;o<'KKniN<;s of conkkkknck 
 
 Dkan L'akmK'IIakl I was iiut ilcaliiiK wth I'nictiie, 
 but witti standards 
 
 Dk. Dewakt : Soiiif tliiiiL^s we iipiiriive nf, smiu- w»» 
 d<j not. It IS put an tfiuui^h wtt ;i|>|>n>vi-d of them fill. 
 
 Tlio ri'iiiiiiMiii^' cliiuscs wen- [liistit'd (.ver by ciiiistMit, 
 and thi- |iin>er as a wliolc whm ac^cejited. 
 
 Tlie Mecoiid auhjeot was broiij{ht bt-luro tlio Cuii- 
 forence by the Hisho). ut Humri, Vhe i)apt<r read by 
 tho rev. gentleman was an fullown 
 
 ThK HdLV S< KIlTUKEs. 
 till L4)KUSHII' T'lK MlSH Jl' OK HfKUNsilid I WaS 
 
 askeil to prepare a pa[ier whicli shi>ulil oontain the 
 doctriiifs of the Cliiirch of Eiiijlarid coiicerninn tlie 
 Holy Scriptures. I liave done 80, and 1 read it before 
 our committee, and, I understand, it has [mssed tliem. 
 [t will be understood to he merely those points which 
 we make in all the teaching we t;ive to our people. 
 
 The TEACHiNti ok the Church ok Enulank con- 
 
 t'EKMNC, the UoLV Si KIl'TUKKs. 
 I'Hol'O.-ilTIoN I. 
 
 By the term, " H.dy Scriptures," tho 'Jhurch of 
 England understands those Canonical Hooks of the 
 Old and N'ew Testament, of whose authority there 
 was never any doubt in the Church. 
 
 The foUoWlU',' Hooks stle hulils couie untler the 
 above definition : — 
 
 iJeiiesis. 
 
 Exodus. 
 
 Leviticus. 
 
 Numbers. 
 
 Deuteronomy. 
 
 .loshua. 
 
 .ludi^es. 
 
 Ruth. 
 
 The let Hook of Samuel, 
 
 The 'Jnd Hook of Samuel. 
 
 The 1st Hook of Kini^s. 
 
 The 2nil Hook of Kiiit;s. 
 
 The 1st Hook of Chronicles. 
 
 The "ind Hook of Chronicles 
 
 Ezra. 
 
 Neheruiah. 
 
 Esther. 
 
 The Book of Job. 
 
 The Psalms 
 
 The Proverbs. 
 
 Ecclesiastea. 
 
 The Sonj/9 of Solomon. 
 
 The Four Major Prophets. 
 
 The Twelve Minor I'rophets. 
 All the Hooks of the New Testament, as they are 
 commonly received, she receives and accounts as 
 canonical. 
 
 HKOl'O.ilTIO.S 11. 
 
 As retfards tlie .Vpocryplial Books of tht* Old Testa 
 mcnf, sin- lias thcni read for example of life and 
 in.<<truction of maimers . but shi; does not apply thum 
 to establish any doctrine. 
 
 Such are the fcdlowmg • 
 
 The ;ird Hook of Esdras. 
 Tile 4th Hook of Esdras. 
 The Hook of Tobias. 
 The Hook of .Judith. 
 The rest of the Hook of Esther 
 The Hook of Wisdom, 
 .lesus, the Son of Sirach. 
 Harucli the Prophet. 
 The Soiif^ of the Three ChiKiren. 
 The Story of Susanna. 
 Hel and the Drak[oa. 
 The Prayer of Manasses. 
 The 1st and 'Jnd Hooks of Maccabees. 
 
 The .\pocryphal liooks of the New Testament are 
 not recognized. 
 
 FKoi'o.srrio.N in. 
 
 . .■.dditioii • ) intermd testimony, the Church (jf 
 Em^land admits the value of historical in idence in 
 determininii the authenticity of the various books of 
 the Bible. 
 
 HKoPO>lTI(I.N IV. 
 
 The Church of England constitutes the Holy Surip 
 tures the su[)reiiie rule of her faith. 
 
 Her teaching on this point is as folhjws : 
 " Whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be 
 proved thereby, is not to be re(|uired of any man, 
 that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, 
 (H- be thought requisite or necessary to Salvation. 
 .Article vi. 
 
 Her position is that she is a witness and keeper of 
 Holy Writ. 
 
 I'Koi'osrno.N V. 
 
 The Church of England requires that all her olerg.\ 
 shall uiifeignedly believe all the Canonical Scriptures 
 of the Old and New Testament. 
 
 I'Kol'O.SlTIu.N \i. 
 
 She reciuires that the clergy shall be peisuaded that 
 the Holy Scriptures contain sutiiciently all Doctrine 
 required of necessity for eternal salvation through 
 faith in Jesus Christ. That they shall instruct theii 
 people out of the Holy Scriptures, and that they shall 
 teach nothing a.s reijuisite to salvation except it ma) 
 be proved therefrom. 
 
 The HisHoi' continued : I feel persuaded, Mr. 
 ('Iiairman and Christian brethren, that the least cause 
 of trouble in the way of unity will be doctrines 
 
nN THK. srrt.IKCT aV rNFTV 
 
 .W 
 
 which wo all liold concorninK ;he bloBst'il wcinl nf (imi. 
 U'c fuel that in thesti titiii;N of trial, when tlit* dark 
 ^('•r'n" haiis; »" lnri'lly .irimnil ii«, whi>ii m-innrn, mi 
 i'^IKmI, and a thnumind iiiid dik; antii'^nnistic fnrct-M 
 tlw'it iiro eviT and iinnn |iUDhiiik{ iihrn't tm art!, as it 
 wen-, aiiiiini^ thoir deadliest hlow if pHrcliaiict) th.\\ 
 call subvert tlie authority nf the wcir<l uf (Jml ; it 
 IS ahsoluteiy necessary (hat the (Iluirch uf ('hn»t 
 '♦huuld speak out clearly, uninistakably and furcibiy 
 as to her credence in this most blessed book. It has 
 stood the storuiH and o|ip(isitions of centuries, and it 
 will stand until the hlesned I^ord shall come ; but we 
 ill feel this, that it is not merely that this book is 
 \enerable with the Irost >if anti<|uity, not merely that 
 It is the threat foundation on which the whole super 
 structure of our faith is built, but because it is the 
 book which testifies of .lesiis Christ. When the blessed 
 Master took up the Hible he said, " In the volume ol 
 the book It is written of me." I,iither said ; " What 
 volume, and what book '." and he replies himself. 
 There is no other volume than the written word, 
 and no other per.son V)ut the living (Jhrist. I am 
 sure, dear friends, that you will feel that there is a 
 'leep, blessed union on this piint, and that we can 
 ■ipttle it as one of the verities, that we are actreed 
 upon iliis lilff--'' book because of its authenticity. 
 Its power and its truth. 
 
 Dk. Caven ( nder the hrst proposition 1 think 
 there was a statement that the Church of England 
 held as canonical the books that have always been 
 held. 
 
 The Bishop i)l which there has never been any 
 loiibt in the Church. 
 
 Dk. Caven : Does "the Church mean the Church 
 "f England or the Church of Christ ' Th" paper is a 
 • lelightful one, and we are all indebted to the Bishoj) 
 of Huron for presenting that paper, and also his 
 admirable words in presenting it ; but it seemed to me 
 that there was a proposition expressed too absolutely 
 in regard to the books that had always been held. We 
 are all aware that certain bocjks were ijiiestioned up 
 to the third century which were afterwards received 
 as canonical. I suppose the projiosition is not intended 
 to exclude those ' 
 
 The Rishop ; The proposition contains the iji^isaima 
 ■ t-rhn of our own statements. 
 
 Dr. Cav/SN : I believe this ijuestion as to the 
 authority <if Scripture i» a very vital one. I can 
 scarcely conceive of a church going far wrong that 
 holds the true doctrine as to the authority of the word 
 of God and of Christ. We are all aware that very 
 gicat atteiiipii' are made in tiie preseni litiy iu aiiake 
 the authority of the Church of Christ in the Scriptures. 
 For instance, a large number, as wo all know, hold 
 that whilst the Scriptures are inspired there are also 
 
 other books that are inspired They say that wherever 
 you tiiid a union of genius with high moral elevation, 
 yo.. have all that m t*Rnnntial to inspiration ; and 
 one of the books that I have been looking into lately 
 says, that the ('hurc^h in 8e'ectin>; the canon, in putting 
 her imprimatur on the canim, held no such (ioctrine 
 ab 111. the Scrioture as we hold at the present day- 
 that ih, that there was no diHtinctly marked line 
 betw -en books .'hat were canonical and those that 
 were not canonical. They shaded otl' into each other 
 -canonical, apocryphal, then a third class, as my 
 the'logical friends know, and so on. The conten 
 tion IS that there is a gradual shading otT, and that 
 the (Jhurch made a selection of books whose creden- 
 tials were best. ! think the japer that was read is 
 satisfactory to us all in that it gives no uncertain sound 
 in regard to this matter , and whilst allowing a certain 
 measure of value to the Apocrypha, and recognizinjr 
 some of the merits of cjrtain parts ot the Aj.ocrypha. 
 It discriminate!! clearly between these productions and 
 the canonical Scriptures. I need not dwell upon this, 
 because it is a fortunate thing for the Churches of 
 Canada, that they have confidence in the word of 
 rjod. I am sure I can speak for the three great bodies 
 that are represented here — their confidence has not 
 been shaken ; but I have been pained and shocked to 
 find in my late visit to Britain, in more than one 
 section of the Church, that there is a great deal of 
 unsettlenient on this very point. For in3t;.nce. I 
 heard a very elaborate, and in some respects — as far 
 as Its literary character was concerned - excellent 
 paper read, which stated that a good deal of scepticism 
 of the present day was due to the exaggerated estimate 
 that the Church held of the character of the Old Testa 
 ment books, and that until the Church revised its 
 doctrine of inspiration, and found what was identical 
 with Scripture, that it would not be possible to recon- 
 cile her faith with the advanced thought of the pre- 
 sent age. I believe the Church of Christ must keep 
 fast to its moocings here, and hold that all Scripture is 
 inspired, everything that is called Can mical Scripture 
 and that hiis the imprimatur of the Church of Christ 
 for the last fifteen centuries, at least, upon it. 
 
 Rev. Dr. Gardner : I am pleased with the paper, 
 for the distinct utterances it gives upon this question. 
 We afford it strong support in the statement contained 
 in our discipline. It is laid down in that paper as the 
 "Supreme rule.' We say. "The only rule and 
 sufticient rule both of our faith and practice. " The 
 Scriptures, I think, are sufficiently clear and full for 
 all things pertaining to life and godliness. 
 
 Dr. Laino : Is there any statement in the paper 
 that these canonical books are the Word of God — are 
 
 inarMTai 
 
 A -1 
 
 Rev. Mk. Birke : I think that occurs in the Ordi- 
 nation Service. There is a distinct declaration 
 required of the candidates. 
 
.(6 
 
 VHOCKKDFXUh OF ('((\KKKK\rK 
 
 ,, .^^^'.- ^^ Laino : The expression. " Word nf (i.ul, ' 
 " inspired of (iod,' does n-.t occur in the paper. I 
 call attention to that hecause. as Dr. ('aveu said, this 
 is a mo9t_ important matter. If these canonical books 
 ^>ethe Word of God, our faith can rest on tliem. If 
 they be not the Word ..f God, what better are they 
 than any other book ' The Church simply says, 
 " These are canonical boolis ; ' but has slie said tliey 
 are canonical books because they are the Word of 
 God, or from some internal testimony referrint; to the 
 kind o{ inspiration which Dr. Caven has mentioned / 
 The yreat ijuestion with me is a clear definition tnat 
 
 iks are the Word of 
 
 these canonical boot 
 inspired. 
 
 Hkv.Pkovo.stHoi)\ : Theauthority which thet'hurcli 
 of Ent,'land ascribes to the canonical books 13 distinctly 
 stated in a [>ortion of the article which was read by 
 the Bishop of Huron He states what measure o"f 
 authority she attributes to these books, to this etiect, 
 (hat nothing is to be re(|uire(l of any man as an article 
 of faith necessary to salvation, but what is contained 
 in those books. I do not know what more is wanted 
 than that. 
 
 Dkan CARMK'HAKt. : The exact nords of the Church 
 of En;,dand are, after recitint; the canonical books, 
 '■ The Holy Scriptures contain all thini,'8 necessary to 
 .salvation, so that whatsoever ia not read therein, "nor 
 may be proved thereby, is not to be reiiuired of any 
 man as an article of faith, or t.. be thotiiiht reouisite 
 or necessary to salvation." 
 
 Dr. Laino : Ves. that is 111 the paper. 
 
 Pkovost Hopy That is the only statement 
 
 Thk RisHor OF HiKoN : When I wa.s asked to 
 elaborate this paper 1 was not asked to make out an 
 opinion which I .asan individual member of the Church 
 of Englaml would make out, but I was to make loyally 
 a paper that would represent the Church's actual 
 teaching— not my own individual views. If I had 
 done 80. I would, perhaps, have made a statement at 
 some points stronijer than here ; hut I would .state 
 for the benefit of all present, that I have kept loyally 
 to the teaching of th° Church of England, and T 
 think that this language is very strong, " The Church 
 of England requires that all her clergy shall unfeicrn- 
 edly believe all the canonical Scriptures of the Old 
 and New Testament. ' " .She requires that her cleray 
 «hall be persuaded that the Holy Scriptures contaiii 
 sufficiently all doctrine required of necessity for 
 eternal salvatmn through faith in .lesus Christ ■ rhat 
 they shall instruct their people ..ut of the Holy Scrip 
 tures ; and that they shall teach nothing as requisite 
 to salvation except it may be proved therefrom.' 
 
 l> \9,. /"' . rni ...... ... . - 
 
 i:r.- .-i.-.. -^Asv. .•.:.:, i;ii3Ji;tii .Aiticie 1 1 iiie Cinirch 
 of Kngland says : "The Church hath |)ower to decree 
 rites or reremon;ep and authority m contnn-ersies of 
 
 faith, and yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain 
 anything that is contrary to Gods Word written, 
 neither may it so expound one place of Scripture that 
 It be ^elPU^Ila!lt to another." That seems plain 
 oiiough. 
 
 Rlv. 
 
 of it: ' 
 Word." 
 
 tR. MocKHinoK : The ;-{4th Article also speaks 
 So that nothing be ordained against God'n 
 
 Dkan Cak.mu haki. : in our office for the confirma- 
 tion of bishops, the archbishop asks the candidate, 
 "Are you ready with all faithful diligence t(.) punish 
 and drive away all erroneous and strange doctrine, 
 contrary to the Word of (Jod, and both privately and 
 openly to call upon and encourage others to do the 
 same ' " 
 
 Dk. Laino : 
 factory to me. 
 
 Dk. PiiorDKooT : The Htatemeiit just read is to the 
 effect that the Church cannot enact anything contrary 
 ' Hir statement is that they can- 
 
 These answers are exceedingly satis 
 
 to the Word of (l.ul. 
 
 not enact or decree any rites or cereuKjiiies for whic 
 they have not the authority of the Word of (Jod to 
 bind the conscience. 1 think that point of diver- 
 gence IS made clear. I would not have made the 
 statement had not this brother bnuight out the article 
 refen iig to my previous remark. 
 
 Rk\. S .I.,.vk>: Tin wisdom of the (^hurdi 
 never formulated a theory of inspiration. 
 
 Dk. Lxr.si.: It was not a theorv. I wanted 
 fact. 
 
 has 
 
 the 
 
 Dk Cakr\ : I ccjiicur m what Dr. Proudfoot has 
 said e.xcept in a single point. The Church of England 
 does not say that rites and ceremonies which she 
 ordains, or which any Church ordains, may bind the 
 conscience so far as eternal salvation is concerned. 
 Ofcour.se there is duty of ..be(iience to constituted 
 authority, and to the rules and regulations of any 
 .society we may belong to ; but all that is very different 
 from binding the conscience in the common sense of 
 the phrase that is, as if the rite or ceremony were 
 jilaced on the same footing as at article (.f the faith. 
 We make that distinction. 
 
 Re\. Mr. Hikkk : Someone has said that the Church 
 of England has not adopteil any theory of inspiration. 
 That is (|uite f .e. 
 
 Re\. S. .(o.ves: r did not say 
 land ; I said the Church 
 
 the <'hurch of Kn 
 
 li- 
 
 Rev. Mr. fit rke : The Church of England has never 
 bound herself to any translatifui of the Scriptures 
 which, I think, is a very mm; thiiii/ You tviU =n^ 
 the translalioiis in the Prayer book are taken from an 
 older translation than the Scri[»iures. She holds that 
 the Scri[itures are the original document. 
 
ox THK srB.TE('T (»F INITY. 
 
 37 
 
 Rev. John Lakotry : We are not formulating arti- 
 les of faith. I suggest this is not a matter that we 
 an properly discuss further. 
 
 The Cheeks. 
 
 The followini; is the minute introduced by the 
 lu'v. Provost Body on the above subject : — 
 
 1. Tlie source of all revealed knowledge and saving 
 
 I I nth is our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who 
 ' inie to fulfil and complete the preparatory- teachings 
 
 f the Mosaic Law and of the Prophets, and whosb 
 leaching is completely summed up and enshrined in 
 he .\po9tolic writings of the New Testament. 
 
 2. That summaries of the .\postolic Faith thus ui\- 
 -hrined under the inspiration of the Holy (Jhost in 
 
 lio writiiiu's of the New Testament have been in use 
 
 III the Church from the earliest times. Compare 
 references in New Testament : Ist Cor. xv. .'{•!» : St. 
 Luke i. 4 ; 1st Tim. iii. Iti ; •2nd Tim. i. 18. 
 
 .'<. That the .\po8tle8 Creed, as it is now accepted 
 
 iiuongst Christians, represents the fully developed 
 
 I' inn of the.se smnmaries of the faith, which were in 
 
 :se in various churches for the convenient instruction 
 
 f baptized Christian people. 
 
 4. In accordance with these historical facts the 
 \l)ostle8' Creed is accepted by all as a summary state- 
 ment of the great facts of the faith which the apostles 
 
 f our Lord proclaimed and taught. 
 
 5. That the Apostles Creed contains fully the 
 lecessary faith concerning Ciod the Father, the Son, 
 <nd the Holy Ghost, and that other creeds are not 
 >" be taken as adding to this any other primary arti- 
 
 les of faith, but only as furnishing such explanations 
 f particular articles thereof as are necessary to explain 
 heir true meaninu. 
 
 <i. That whereas controversies arose in very early 
 
 nmes with regard to two great doctrines which are 
 
 inplicitly contained in the Apostles" Creed as to 
 
 \i The doctrine of the Htdy Trinity or of the Triune 
 
 '•ivine Nature and the separate personality of (Jod 
 
 he Son and God the Holy Ghost: (B) As to the 
 
 iiystery of our Lord's Fncarnaticm, or the relationship 
 
 'f the Divine and human natures, each nature abiding 
 
 ■'I its entirety in the person of the Lord ; such explan- 
 
 •'iry and additional statements were, therefore, made 
 
 u behalf of the Universal Church a.s were sutticient 
 
 <<• settle these controversies, and to mark out the 
 
 'rue meaning of the Apostles' Creed in these respects. 
 
 7. That in the Creed agreed to at the Council of 
 Vicea A.D. ;V25, and enlarged at the Council of Con 
 -tantinoy)le A.D. HHl. the following were tlie chief 
 
 Ar 
 
 tV,r 
 
 ..fi^ 
 
 ,AA 
 
 11 view : 
 
 "God of God proceeding from (iod 
 Light, 
 
 ifVi ^Viia /iKicn-*! 
 
 Light ')f 
 
 " Very God of Very God. 
 
 ■ Being of ime substance (Essential Nature) with 
 the Father. 
 
 ■ By whom all things were made." 
 
 These clauses were inserted to guard the true God- 
 head of our Lord against Arianism. 
 
 Similarly with regard to the true (iodhead of the 
 Holy Spirit : 
 
 " The Lord and Giver of Life. 
 
 ' \V!io proceedeth from the Father and the Sun 
 essential oneness of nature). 
 
 " Who with the Father and the Son togetlier is 
 worshipped and glorihed. 
 
 ■' Wlio spake by the pro))het8. 
 
 H. The creed wliich commonly bears the name of 
 St. .\thanasius is partly a systematic exposition of the 
 doctrine of the Holy Trinity (being in this respect a 
 reiteration of the threat articles of faith already noticed 
 in paragraph 7i, and partly adds some clauses with 
 regard to the mystery of (jur Lord's Incarnate Person 
 embodying the doctrinal decisions agreed tt) on behalf 
 of the Universal Church at the Councils of Ephesus 
 (4,Sll and Chalcedon 1451). 
 
 The opening and closing clauses solemnly attirm the 
 necessity of a right faith in the Holy Trinity and <>f a 
 life agreeable to the same, echoing the solemn words 
 of our Lord to the same effect in St. Mark xvi. 1(1, and 
 other places. 
 
 This document has been recei^-od throughout the 
 whole of western Christendor>' >. more than 1,000 
 years as a detailed summar' of *• faith of special 
 \alue as alone preserving the -iauses which guard 
 against error in regard to our Lc.rd's Incarnation, c.'j.: 
 
 II With regard to the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. 
 
 ■' Neither confounding the persons las the Sweden 
 borgians do, asserting that there are no really distinct 
 persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost i 
 or dividing the substance (i.*". the essential oneness of 
 the Divine Nature). " 
 
 N. B. -The term '' incomprehensible " is used iti its 
 old sense of unlimited, infinite. It might be perliaps 
 replaced by some plainer English word. 
 
 (2) With regard to the Incarnate Person of our Lord . 
 
 The yreat fact attirme 1 of the co-existence in Him 
 of two perfect natures both of God and Man as against 
 those, for example, who held that our Lord had no 
 true human soul. 
 
 " Of ;v reasonable sou! and human flesh subsisting. " 
 
 Yet the perfect union in His Person of these two 
 natures neither absorbing or destroying each other,*.;/.; 
 " Not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh. 
 
 Not by confu8it)n of the substance. i.<.. comming- 
 ling of the two natures, the whole leading up to the 
 simple faith "God and Man is one Christ," illui 
 
38 
 
 )m;<)('K.ki>in(;s ok confkkkxck 
 
 trati'd by the co-existeiici' lu u'lrselvt'S nf Ixitli soiil 
 and body. 
 
 '.t. That fX|pei-ieiRT slmwH tho need nf a Hiaiidai'd mF 
 di)Ctrini- wliuli mIuiU lie kimwii and used hy alM 'hiistian 
 lieople such as will piineut error witli rei/ard t.. audi 
 vital iiiatt.rs as the (iiity ut' (iod in Tliree IVrsons. 
 and tlie true Humanity and Godhead of our Lord. 
 
 10. That the swvreiaents rif tiiith alio\e leterred to 
 are coiitained in Chapters II. and III. offjie West- 
 minster Confession, and in Articles i. 2. adopted hy 
 the Methodist Cliurch of Canada, and contained in 
 the Hook ot Doctrines and l>i.scipline, Toronto, 1SS4. 
 
 Pkoviist Bor.Y : We all here a^'ree as to the source 
 of all savinu truth and all revealed faith in (iod. We 
 have ]U8t talked together about how our Lord Jesus 
 Christ was the way and the truth ; how the ajuistles 
 under the insjiiratKm of the Holy (ihost, ^^ave m 
 written documents a iiortraitnre '".f the Lord ; and 
 whatever coiiseciuence, faitli.and doctrine 'low from the 
 Lord s life and work ;aid preachini; ; ai- ! so far we start 
 on our way (piite unite<lly. It is n endeavour to 
 lead the Conference if possible to an equal iinaniniitv 
 of opinion, or to briny about as much unity as we ..an 
 on the question of the .reeds of the Chiirch, or the 
 rules of faith, in the more i>ro( er sense of the word — 
 that is those tinialied summaries f)f the faith in wliich 
 the ireneral teaching' of the Holy Ghost is condensed. 
 I sym[>athize with all my heart with the remark of Dr. 
 McLaren that we ouifht not to contemplate for one 
 moment tlie throwing to the winds all that the Church 
 has learned under the liuidance of (Jod throuirh so 
 many centuries since the Council of Nic;ea. 1 sptak 
 hiTe on behalf of the Churcii of Ensiland. I li.ij.e 
 every brother will understand that we have not come 
 here to j,nve the people a;i account of all that we hold 
 dear in faith ami devotion ami practice : but what we 
 liave come here to do is to consult with regard to cer- 
 tain things, a basis upon which we could go to work 
 with a view to reunion. But suppose reunio i were 
 accompli.slicd to-morrow— I am speaking for mvself, 
 but I think I have the authority of my brethren it is 
 not my idea of it that on every minute point such as 
 we have been discussing fi r some tnne. or on most 
 important points, we could all be agreed. Th(#concep 
 rion which I iiave got is tliat we sliould learn from one 
 another, if^ we were once united, probalily very much 
 ind ed. There are many p.iints which, for example. 
 the Dean of .Montreal m his e\. elient pa[>er did not 
 in the least t( uch upon, which are held I suppose l.v 
 all members of the Chuicli . f Kngland : but tiio.s'e 
 were points whiidi did imt . omc under the compass of 
 iiis paper, namely, the ]i.,ints on which we are not 
 agreed, as so with vo<^:\ri] to all matters of doctrine. 
 
 we ;;fi; \:i:x- ■:;- -^jiirig To ,T,, in ii,,l (,, j^ue ;{ i;oiri 
 
 \VVi- 
 
 plete or tinal ac 
 the I'hurch c)f 
 
 if what the faith of members of 
 1 Would be. su]i]iosing re union 
 
 was accom]ilished to-morrow ; but to deal with what 
 we are considering will be necessary for us to agree 
 up'in as a basis *of faith with a view to re-union. 
 That, then, is the position of matters as I understand 
 it. thir view as to the .Ajiostles' Cree<l in the liaptisma! 
 formulary is .something of this kind, which i commend 
 to the kind consiileration of my bretliren. We tind in 
 the N'ew 'i'estament. for example, there are very clear 
 indications - that even prior to the written goaj)els in 
 the present sha])e there were summaries of the main 
 facts of the faith which were in use by the authority 
 of the ajiostles in the Church. For example, the 
 gosjiel of Si. Luke was written, according to the state 
 ment of the author, that the accuracy might be fully 
 iniblished of the things in which he had already 
 received oral instruction. St. Paul speaks of the 
 (ioajiel that he preached, and in the ?][ustle to the 
 Galatians as of that in which there should be no alter 
 ation that if any one [ireached anything different 
 he should lie .\nathema ; and in the Ejiiatle to the 
 Corinthians, m the n-ell-known passage, he warns 
 them not to receive any gospel but that he had 
 preac'ied to them ; and tlien fidlows the statement, 
 How that our Lord died for our sins, and rose 
 again, efc. There are other declarations, such as 
 those, for example, in the fir.st E[iistle to Timothy, 
 where the well-known summary of our L-ird's life is 
 (pioted. and is in rhythmical form, having clearly been 
 m use in the Ctuircli. In fact, the instruction' which 
 tlie apostle k'ave to the Philippian Oaoler -" Believe 
 on the Lord .Fesus Christ " is really that baptismal 
 summary of faith which in its fully developed form is 
 contained in the .\postles Oeed. Then our view is. 
 that in accordance with the example of the apostles of 
 our Lord and of the Holy Scriptures, as we thus gather, 
 it was held as the uniform practice of the Church, to say 
 nothing of tlie common-sense value of such a cim- 
 venient summary and rule of faith that that grand, 
 venerable account of what the apcistles delivered con 
 eerning (iod the Father. S,,n. and H(dy Ghost, should 
 continue to be taught am.mgst us, and to our children 
 from age to age as their great Cliristian symbol, and 
 their heritage of God, given to them, as they are 
 brought intt> HistJhurch— as a convenient summary of 
 truth fur baptized Christian people. I believe I am right 
 m saying that the Ajiostles Creed is authc.ritativel} 
 containeil in the formularies of the Preahyterian 
 Church ; .in.t that in the service of Baptism prescribed 
 liy the Methodist Church of Canada it is ised in the 
 way that I have mentioned. I f'unk the only dither 
 eiice. perhaps, is that one article, with regard to our 
 Lord s oneness with us after death- (" He went down 
 into the phu'e <if deiiarted s|)irits " I think is not in 
 that document if I remember right' but that is a 
 point on which I do not wish to lay stress now. What 
 i mean l.^ tiiai in uhat I am saying I am carrying the 
 sense of what all the ('hunlies clearly present". Then 
 we come to the <iueati<in of tliat further enlargement 
 
ON THK srP,.rK('T OF INTTN 
 
 i» 
 
 i)f the Apostles Creed which Iihs reconoil tin- autlmrity 
 .if the Council of Niciea ; :ui<i 1 wtjuld like t" aay 
 tiere -i think 1 <uii s.iyinn what is siinetioned tiy my 
 lirelhren th;itiiii\- eiilari,a'nifiit i:f tlic Apustles' (.'reed 
 IS not reyiirdod by us as adding; iin article to the faith 
 rliat We rej^ard the Apost'dic faith as contained in the 
 creed which bears the name of the Aitostlos, and the 
 object of which was to uive a summary of wiiat the 
 Apostles tauyht concerniii;:; Almii,'hty (iod. 'I'o avoid 
 the dilticulty as it arose rei^ardiiii; the Divinity of <iod 
 the Son and of (iod tlie Holy (iliost, it was tliou^ht 
 necessary U> enlari^e tlie l>aptismal suuiuiary by in 
 sertint; clauses whicii iiave tliat and that only in view . 
 so as to secure in the Nicene Creed a clear summary 
 ot what the Church has ever believed concerniiit; the 
 eternal (jodhead of the Son and of tlie Holy Spirit. 
 It will not be necessary for me to mentimi these 
 clauses. I think they are familiar to us all, such as 
 "Son of (jrod, " proceediuLC from (!oil, " "Light of 
 Light.' "true God, " \-ery (Joii of \ ery (»od, 
 " being of one substance or e-<8ential nature, "' with 
 the Father,' and "by whom all things were made,' 
 - clauses whicli refer to God the Son, and those later 
 clauses, " the Lord and the Giver i>f life," and so on, 
 which athrni the essential (iodliea<l of the Holy tihost. 
 Then the next view I wish to put forward is that we 
 would regard this Nicene symbol as representing a 
 complete statement of tlie doctrine of the H(jly Trinity 
 and of the Christian faitii. There is atiother creed 
 which IS in use amongst us, and with resjard to which 
 1 would like to be permitted to say a feu words, be 
 cause it is very dear to many of us ; and although it 
 may not be necessary, if we ever come to corporate 
 le-union, that it should hold precisely the ilevotional 
 place that it does amongst us — it does not even do it 
 in the Protestant Episcopal Church in the I'nited 
 States still it is regarded by us all in the Church of 
 England as a very important and useful document, 
 and, I think, some of our brethren in the Methodist 
 and Presbyterian Churches may not have attached to 
 ii very much importance : and, therefore, I shouhl 
 like, in conclusion, to say a word or two as to why we 
 regard the Athanasian symbol as cif great practical 
 use to ourselves. While the Nicene symbol fully 
 ' \plains the A[iostle8 Creed, so far as all (|Uestion8 
 connected with the doctrine of the Holy Trinity are 
 -oiicerned, it does not enter into any matters at all 
 I iiiniected with the mystery of our blessecl LokI .- 
 iiicainatioii, and the union of (iod and man in His 
 iilessed l^eisoii (|Uestioiis that we all know .ire ot 
 V ery great ini|jortance and i>ractieal nood m thoChuroli, 
 and abo\e many others m practical \aliie at the pre- 
 sent day. We read a good deal of j.^ise theology, 
 perhaps, some of my bretiiren aay I say so, at any 
 rate as to our blessed Lords Ters'ii and work. His 
 human soul. His human will, and the relation in 
 which His blessed divine n.iture stood to His 
 humanity; and these are ipie^tions ulmli, while they 
 
 are clearly of vital import to the ("liurcli, whether 
 or not w..' think they ought to occupy the same place 
 as amongst ourselves in the ottices of the Church, at 
 any rate arc of the greatest possible importance 
 Well, now. we have no symbol which contains any 
 e.\|ilaiiafion with regai'd to the mystery of the incar- 
 nation, except this one which has bt^eii current in 
 Western Christendom some thousand years or more, 
 and whicli goes commonly by the name ot St. Athan- 
 asius— I sup])ose because St. .Athanasius was a great 
 defender of the faith. We do not attribute the 
 authorship to St. Athanasius. This is the main 
 reason why we of the Church • f England regard that 
 document as valuable for the instruction of our people 
 —the doctrine concerning our Lord's Person con- 
 tained in the Westminster Confession, chapters two 
 and three, and in articles one and two of the Metho- 
 dist Church of Canada. There is in each of these 
 documents a pretty full statement as to the points 
 which are dwelt upon in the devotional use of the 
 Athanasian symbol, such as, for example, " .V reason- 
 able soul, as well as human Hesh subsisting' —"one, 
 not by the conversion of the (iodhead into tlesh, &c. 
 I have thus indicated what appears to us to be the 
 value of the later and more detailed exposition of the 
 faith ; but neither the iiishops wIkj assembled at 
 Lai- oth, nor ourselves here as a delegation, wisii to 
 be 1. iderstood as putting any yoke upon the shoulders 
 of our brethren in rettard to this matter at all. It is 
 just a ((Uestion of whether it will be considered ex- 
 pedient to give that devotional prominence as a matter 
 of worsiiip to these great facts that we have done in 
 the Church of England, and which has been done 
 throughout Western (.'hristendom for a very long 
 period of time. 
 
 Kkv. Mk. McKeszik ; With regard to the truth of 
 the facts of the creeds which we receive, there in 
 practically no difference between us in the reception 
 of those facts (uiinuestionably) ; but with respect to 
 doctrines or opinions that may be connected with 
 those facts, the Church of Eiiudaml does allow a u ide 
 tield of ditl'erence. It is enjoyed by her people, and 
 IS not Considered in any sense as a reproach, but one 
 of our grandest privileges. She also allows, while we 
 are faithful to the symbol of the dogmatic truths, 
 while we are all faithful to those, and are unanimous, 
 I mi^ht say. almost thorouudily unanimous, at the 
 same time the Church allows a «ide ditl'erence in the 
 practice or the coiuluct of public wurship , and where 
 any diH'ert'iice appears, sometimes in the public papers, 
 it is because we are not all as tolerant t" each other 
 as we sh iiild hi'. 
 
 Dk.w (' ai;\iii ii.vKi, suggest, i the aiipointuient .if a 
 small commuietr iii'iu iiie iiiiee CiiUi'ciico i.i iii<V>v up 
 a general resolution as the result of this meeting, 
 that could be given forth to the respective Churches. 
 
40 
 
 MiifCKKDINCS OF noNK .KN'("K 
 
 Rev. Dr. Williams 1 hope no resolution will be 
 drawn up. The committee of which I am a member 
 will make a report to the body appointing it. What- 
 ever may be tlie view of the Conference, we. shall have 
 to make a report to our own Uhurche.s. The views I 
 expr •38ed this mornin); were my own candid convic- 
 tioDB. I am conscientious in saying that the time has 
 not yet come for corporate union. I consider it my 
 duty as a Christian man to further anything that will 
 help the unity of the Church, but I do not see my 
 way, as an individual, to give my suffrage to corporate 
 unity at present. I don't want my own miiid to be 
 trammelled, and I don t wish to trammel another's 
 inind. We might make a Church as broad as we 
 think tit, but yet n(n broad enough ; no Churcti is 
 broad enough to hold Christ. I do not wish to see 
 a corporate unity that would trammel a human con- 
 science and human thought. I know it did before 
 We all know it did before, trammel thought and con 
 science. I feel like Dean Stanley, if a Church should 
 put over its doors, " A new commandment 1 ^ive 
 unto y..u, that ye love one another," I feel that wJuld 
 be the Church of the future-a Church built u[.od 
 love to God and our fellow men. The time will come 
 when that will be the basis. Anything that I, as an 
 individual, can do to help the Church of God to that 
 position, I should gladly do. 
 
 Adjourned at ti p.m. till » p.m. 
 
 KVENING SESSION. 
 
 The LoKi. Bi.shup of N'iaoaka, 
 
 The Right Rev. 
 
 presiding. 
 
 Kkv. Mk. Ckawfoki., of Brockville, read the 17th 
 Chapter of St. John. 
 
 Rev. Dh. Rkid led in prayer. 
 
 The discussion of '• Tiie Creeds " was taken up. 
 
 Rkv. John LAN.iTKv : The ijuestion is whether the 
 Nicene Creed would be the initial basis upon which we 
 luight agree at c.tiier points. Let us have expressions 
 of opinion. 
 
 Rev. Dk. Williams : We .Methodists hold a ca-eat 
 deal more than is in that creed, th.'iefore t.. me the 
 Nicene Creed is not broad en-. ugh. It only reiterates 
 the Apostles Creed with a little addition The 
 Methodist Chiiir.h has never accepted the Nicene 
 Creed. 
 
 Rev. Dk. M. Laken We of the Presbyterian 
 Church have no difficulty in accepting the contents of 
 the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed. There is 
 unt ciauac iii iHe ^'iiueue v.'reeu as we now have it that 
 perhaps we would re.juiie to explain a little : but in 
 
 the sense in which we accept it we have no difficulty 
 about it at all. The Apostles' Creed was formerly I 
 think, printed usually m our Confession of Faith and 
 often along with our Shorter Catechism That was a 
 custom which I believe dates back almost to the time 
 of the \\ estminster Assembly. 
 
 Rev. Mr. Burkk : is it not in the Shorter Catechism ' 
 Rev Dk. McLaren : No, it is not in, but we used 
 to print It along with the Shorter Catechism, and it 
 , has always been held in the very highest esteem in the 
 Presbyterian Church. I think that it has fallen ou 
 of use amongst us very much from two causes-in the 
 hrst place every article in the Apostles' Creed and m 
 the Nicene Creed has been embodied, with very much 
 greater detiniteness and fulnes.s. in our other symbolic 
 books ; and of course there is no very special need for 
 ^r^H) [^^^".dirterent forms .„ use amongst us 
 and I think that is one thing that has caused it to fal 
 
 np H f">- K ' '^''^ ""'^'^"' •" any special way the 
 need of it when we were using the .same thing in othe 
 forms. Another consideration ,s the fact that perhapl 
 we read history somewhat ditt'erentiy from my friend 
 Provost Body, and perhaps in the estimatio^i 7a 
 good many of our people the Apostles' Creed ^which 
 we regard as a very admirable summary of doctrine- 
 has suffered somewhat from the fact that there is a 
 claim involved in the title given to it which we do no? 
 regard as very well founded. In fact, we think tha 
 if there 18 anything that can be very clearly den ,7 
 strated from the early history o, the fhuS.'it is that 
 that document did not cmie from the Apostles . r 
 even anytlimg like the Apostolic age. Part of U '.f 
 course can be found pretty early, bu? very many o its 
 articles cannot be found until a compLti Sy a te 
 period. I think some of them date in Ihe fourth ^id 
 hfth and one even in the sixth century : so that it ca 
 hardly, in our judgment, be traced to c he Apostles 
 
 lkeL7^Zlt "^"^ f '/"^^ '" ""^ -timati!;.. fr" ; 
 the tact that it seems to be ass,.ciated with that kind 
 
 1 1 '",• . yj ^'^''''' '^■"' '''"""««* ^« there s 
 the slightest hesitation in the cordial reception o 
 every article even m the Apostles' Creed ,.,th 
 Nicene Creed. The .me that I would perhaps la lify 
 wouhl be that oneabout--^" He descended into hI '' - 
 where, of course, we would give our own interpreta- 
 tion to these words. That would perhaps be the mU 
 l^>nit. But If It came to the ..uestioi. whether he 
 N.cene and .\postles Creeds would form anything like 
 
 Hl' n"w-,f'"' "^ •''"''•"'^'' ^ t'""k we would el 
 like Dr. Williams on that point, But if it is merely 
 proposed as i,avin. an indication that we are so far „ 
 accord, then I thmk it is ,,uite well that it may be 
 used ,n that way. That is all I can say. ^ 
 
 Provu.st BoUV ; W.juld v,.n .nind „v ..I..;..;.. . .. 
 
 sense in which you explain the clause ' ' ""*' "" 
 
 Rev. Dk. McLakkn : The invisible world. 
 
ON TIIK sril.TKf T (>K IXITV 
 
 41 
 
 Rkv. Dk. Cakky: I think I may say for the whnle 
 Church of Hm,'laii(l — I say it fur iiijsi'lf — it is iiiiiios- 
 Hihle forc'hurchimm to ahaiidon the Nicene Creed — an 
 alisoluti! iiiijiortsibility . because, tlioUi,'li tho articles 
 may be expressed in the Confession of Faith — and 
 nobody admires more the doctrine of the Trinity in 
 the Confession of Faith than i do myself ; I can sub- 
 scribe to it lieartily — in many sernions 1 use it — but tlie 
 Xicene Creed, an<l the recit.atinn of it in our cliurches 
 and cont,'re<_,'ations is indisjjensable, I say, as an indi- 
 cation of the continuous life of the Church and of the 
 faith of the Church. We do no', want to sejjarate our- 
 selves from ancient Christianity by any new symbols. 
 We retain the symbol, and I hope and trust it will be 
 retained as lonLtas the Church of fiod lasts. 
 
 Rev. Dh. SEmiwicK : That is purely a matter of 
 iletail. I think wo in the Presbyterian Church are 
 perfectly willing to take the Apostles' and the Nicene 
 Creeds as a basis of a further confession uf the truth. 
 I do not take it that that is tlie sense in which these 
 creeds are put forward ; they are put forward more in 
 the sense that they are the confession of the Church 
 in its undivided state, l)efiire tho Church was divided 
 into oast and west, or anytliins,' else. If yi>u put those 
 forward as your confession of faith you wouhl be very 
 inconsistent, for you have not simply those creeds as the 
 profession of your faith, but y^u have als^ the Articles 
 of Religion whicli deal witli matters tiiat are not dealt 
 with in those creed.3, or if dealt with, it is c)nly by 
 implication. I think you would be very inconsistent 
 in saying that tlie united ehnrch is to have no other 
 symbol than tliese creeds, because j'ou yourselves in the 
 Thirtj--nine Articles, to winch 1 supjioso yuu assent, if 
 you give your assent in no stronger way than tho 
 creeds, you yourseh es eiinf'>ss that more is needed tlian 
 thosi^ creeds. 1 alwa\s understood that the Tliirty- 
 nino Articles were a i)art of what you wish us to under- 
 stand you [)rofe3aed I am (|uite sure wo are willing 
 to take those symbols as a foundation ; but J doubt if 
 we C'lusidor they are a suiticient confes.'iioii uf our 
 faith, and I don t know tiial you wish I's to agrei'. 
 
 Rk.\ . Dh. D. (i. SiTMKiM.ANr'' The Ajiostles ("reed is 
 (■. be found in tho ritual of bajitisMi in the .Methodist 
 ''hurch, with one single onu.ssion, and that 1 suiujoso 
 li.is Ijoen omitted because it has been often in our 
 judgment misinterpreted and niisap|ilied. T don't 
 tliink the brc^thron ought to go away with the idea 
 tliat we do not receive the iloctrinos taught in the 
 Nicene Creed. For ipiy.''elf I accept them fully, and 
 belio\e the majority of the Mi'thodist ministers do. 
 Wo have not that creed in any ritual or any for- 
 uiidiiry (hat we may make use of. Tlie doctrines 
 which express them are embodied ui other forms. 
 Hut what I object to here is asking us to proiioimce 
 
 If We simply express our harmony with the teacliing 
 of these creeds, tliat should be suiticient, without any 
 reference to them as a basis of union. 
 
 I\K\ . .F. LvNiirKV : I think we have got all we ought 
 to expect in the expression of general concurrence. 
 We do not want to put p.ny one to a definite statement 
 of their faith here. Nobody is authorized to do it. 1 
 think it would be well to stop here. 
 
 Dk. C.wen asked Provost Body if the Church of 
 England put these creeds in tho same jiosition as the 
 Thirty-nine Articles -that is, whether they are sym- 
 bolical in the same sense and to the same extent. 
 
 Rev. Phovost Body : That was not a matter that 
 uaine before our delegation, therefore I can < :ily speak 
 for myself. In my own judgment as an individual 
 there is the widest possible dillerenc between the 
 position of the creeds and the position of the Thirty- 
 nine Articles. We have taken tho creeds from the 
 universal church of Christ, but the creeds deal with 
 the faith proper^- that is, the faith concerning Cod, 
 the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Tho Thirty-nine 
 Articles were <trawn up at a critical period in the 
 history of tiie Churcli for the i>ur|)ose of securing a 
 certain uniformity in teaching, and they have tliat 
 distinct history, and I don > think that any member 
 of the Church of England places the Thirty-nina 
 Articles in tlii' same symbolical jxisition as the creed. 
 
 IvEV. Du. C.WEN : The members of the Church of 
 England will see that, irom the Presbyterian point of 
 view, that (juestion is entirol} relevant, btcau.so, of 
 course, Presbyterian.s ot this couiitry have no syni- 
 b(,lical book except tiie Confession of Faith. Even 
 the Catechisms, Larger and Shorter, while we use <-heni 
 under authority tor the instruction of young p: rsons, 
 are not placed exactly in the same category as the 
 Confession of Faith. That, from our p. int ot view, 
 makes it very natural that wo should encjuiro into 
 this matter. Of course we Presbyterians sub.scribe 
 to the Coiifi'ssion of F.iith. It is our Confession in 
 the fullest sense of tlie exiK-ession, and, as has been 
 already said, embodies all that .s contained in tho 
 Nicene < 'reed, and also in the Clu.lcedon C'eed. 
 
 Rev. (J. C. MiKenzie : A candidate for baptism is 
 only asked to express what he believes in the Apostles' 
 Creed, which wo believe to be only a little further 
 enlargeniL'iit of " Uelieve in tho Lord Jesus Christ 
 and thou shalt be .saved." Wo never dream of put- 
 tiiig tlie ;?'.» articles before that man and telling him 
 he must believe in those before he can be saved or 
 bai)tizod into tho Church ; but if that man comes and 
 asks for instruction in what the Church teaches upon 
 tii'jse points touched upon in those 3',t articles, we 
 refer him to those as the Church's authoritative inter- 
 
 that those two ciee.ls sh. old for;ii part of the basis of iiretation upon those points. Tho 'M) articles ur 
 
 union. I don't think wo liavo ijot far enough for that. 
 
 uade binding on the clortiymon of the Church of 
 
42 
 
 I'i;(»r'Ki;i>i\(;s of ("OXFKItKNrK 
 
 tnglaud, ti( be tneir uuide and diroction in tcacliiu" 
 Every word ot the Apostles' Creed can he vertMlfy 
 proved from Scripture, an<l that is all we siil.mit to 
 candiilates. 
 
 llK\. Dk. Cavk.n ; We I'reshyteriaus do not ask our 
 private nienihers at all to aceej.t the Confession ,,f 
 Faith : it is simply foi- onr office bearers. 
 
 Hkv. (i.e. McKknzik; Tlie same thinj,'. 
 
 Kk\. Dk. Caven : The same thini; as far as private 
 members are concerned. 1 have no doubt they use 
 symbols like the Ajiostles' Creed, ortiie Nicene Creed, 
 so that, F think, no difficulty would arise from that. 
 
 PuiNi ii'Ai. Dymum. : No layman in the Church of 
 England is rei|uired to subscribe to these articles. 
 Formerly, in the Iniversities of O.xford and Cam- 
 bridge, lajmen had to do so ; but no layman is now 
 re(|Uired to subscribe to these articles, under any cir- 
 cumstances, unless he does so from his free will ; 
 whilst every layman is supposed not only to learn the 
 creed, but to recite it. 
 
 ^ Rkv Dk. Pkoui.foot : The Apostles' and Nicene 
 Creeds are looked upon as part of the standards of 
 the Church (.f England : they are their symbolic 
 creeds. As a matter of taste I (juestion whether 
 it was W'.'ll to ask this body, repn-.^enting three 
 Churches, to aopiie.'ice in the otiicial symijolsof one 
 of the Churched. Then again, as a basis on which to 
 erect a union of these three Churches, these two 
 creeds are totally iiiade<|uate for J'resbyterians and 
 Church of England people, who have such compre- 
 hensive standards, ft would seem like minimi.^cing 
 our standards to a much greater extent than is at all 
 needed ; for we as Presbyterians and Methodists and 
 Church of England, are' prepared to go far beyond 
 these creeds. Then again, a great deal has "been 
 added to the Church, in tlie i'rovidence of (iud. The 
 creeds and confessions of faith have been forced upon 
 the CMiurch in the course of ages, being compelled to 
 teatify against the errors, so that we have a gradual 
 accretion of princii)les that the Church has had to 
 introduce into her authorit^itive symbols for the [lur- 
 pose of defending what are held to be fundamental 
 doctrines of the (Jospel. So that .something m,,re 
 than that might be expected Then as to the doc- 
 trine of creeds and confessions altogether, 1 have an ' 
 idea that a confession should not be iinmutable. If you : 
 adopt a confession of such a kind that it shall be subject i 
 to no change, then, <.f course, you place it on a level i 
 with tha Word of God, which I entirely deprecate. \ 
 As errors are perpetually changing, and as tiie Church 
 is rc'juired t(j testify agains't tliem, the Churcli's i 
 creeds must chang.', not because the Word of (Jod 
 changes, l)ut because the creeds come between the 
 Wold of iiod and prevailing errors both in doctrine 
 and polity ; so tliat a creed ought to l)e subject (o 
 
 change. If there is to be no change, we find creeds 
 just burdened with the condemnation of obsiJete 
 heresies. These are just my private oi)inion.s ; I do 
 not profess to speak for the Church at all. 
 
 Rev. <i. C. MiKkn/.ik : I cannot understand h. ./ 
 any one can conceive that we of the Anglican Church 
 have come to this meeting to imp»)se any creeds. We 
 have simply come here to meet our brethren of the 
 Methodist and Presbyterian Churches, to see what 
 can be done to draw us nearer together in unity, and 
 wherein we agree. I do not understand that we have 
 yet said that these two creeds are to be the basis, and 
 the only basis, of union. I would ask Dr. Pr.iudfoot 
 to bear in mind that if anything can be called a 
 symbol of the Church of England it would be the 
 ;5;i Articles. The Apostles' and the Nicene Creeds 
 are not peculiar to the Church of England ; they are 
 peculiar to the Church Catholic. We have taken 
 those symbols common to the whole Catholic Church 
 ai.d suggested those as a ground. Those creeds are 
 not I'etinitions or explanations ; tliey are simply, in 
 the briefest language possible, statements concerning 
 God the Father, God the Son, and Cnd the Holy 
 Ghost. ^ 
 
 Rev. Dk. Pkoi dfoot : I never hinted at the charc/e 
 -.f tile Church of England seeking to inipos'3 anything 
 upon us. I disclaim thai; with all my heart. I said 
 that it was a mere matter of taste, affecting perhaps 
 the public opinion in the morning : but I never charged 
 that there was any idea of doint; it. I disclaim it with 
 emjihasis. 
 
 Dkan Car.mi.haei. trusted the meeting would not 
 drift into controversy, and that the brethren would 
 consider that those who had submitted papers had 
 done so for consideration hereafter before the whole 
 Assembly. Provost Hody had only spoken of the 
 creeds as being hereafter a possible basis that might 
 suit us when we came together at some future time" to 
 consult about the basis which we are not consultim' 
 about now. We have not reached that stage. We 
 are sim[)ly gleanim,' opinions in a brotherly way. 
 
 Rkv. Dk. Si tiieki,\.vi. : , d.. not think there is a 
 disiM.siti.>ii any when- to ask this Conference, as a 
 Conference, to endorse the symbols of any particukr 
 church—and for this reason, that T do not regard the 
 Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed as the peculiar 
 and exclusive jiroperty of the Church of En<dand I 
 rather reuard them as two very ancient historical 
 symbols that are the common heritage of the Church 
 universal. Now, I do not know any point in either 
 of those symbols that is not accepted and taught by 
 every minister of the Methodist Church. If I would 
 seem to make any e.xception at all, it is simply the 
 
 point referred to bv liiv ja^siist-w.-! -.-.-... !...._-; r 
 
 that is dropped out of our form as wo irse'i't tn our 
 baptismal service, it is simply because we thought that 
 
ON TiiK SI r..n;cT <>k ^M^^ 
 
 4.1 
 
 ill iinpnlar ostiiiiiition it was mi.Hrepresentert and inis 
 at>iilied — that is, that thu words used were very liable 
 to be misinterpreted; but, nevertheless, l)ehind these 
 words is a truth that \se would not bv disposed t'l 
 discount, much less deny. We are all agreed in this, 
 tliat this V)ook is the only sutticient rule alike of laith 
 and ]>ractice. This is a laru'e book, and it seems very 
 important that there should be some brief forn in 
 which the faith of the Tniversal Church on ijreat 
 fundamental principles could be expressed, and ex- 
 pressed so briefly and cloarly that no person of average 
 intelligence would misunderstand what we mean ; and 
 more particularly in the L,'reat missiimary work of the 
 Christian Church, where we have often been met with 
 that very thing — ■" Well, you come here as a body of 
 reliij;ioU8 teachers ; what do you teach ' What do you 
 believe;^" It will hardly do to say to them, " We 
 believe and preacli whaT is contained in this Bible ; " 
 because theywould very naturally and very properly 
 say, " But can't you '^ive us a shorter form than 
 that— a clear outline of what you understand the 
 Scriptures to teach T' There is where, in my judg- 
 ment, the important point comes in that every 
 church and every relit,'i()U8 teacher is bound in honesty, 
 if nothing more, to declare plainly what he under- 
 stands that bi*ok to teach on these great matters. 
 Now, the Apcjstles' Creed seems to be universally 
 accepted, without demur, anywhere : and I have not 
 heard, so far, any point in the Nicene Creed that is 
 objected to ; ;u , therefore, I see no reason why wo 
 should hesitate at all about reachini^ this conclusion, 
 for, as I understand it, tlie desire is to know whether 
 there is anything in these two symbols to which any 
 of us would take strong excepticm. We must Hud 
 this out in some way if we are to make any progress 
 at all -and I think, my.self, that this conversation has 
 been of very great value in connection with the object 
 of this Conference ; and 1 think we are steadily and 
 gradually enlarging the sphere in which we are to act. 
 T think Mr. Langtry. when he spoke of it first, did not 
 speak of this as a sutHciently comi>rohensive statement 
 of all Christian teaching and doctrine, but I think he 
 asked wheth^.i- it would do as an initial i>oint— simjily 
 .IS a starting point where there would be no discussion 
 and no dispute— and I think it will 8er\ e a very valu- 
 able purpose if we can, as we seem to do. so far as the 
 conversation has gone yet, receive these two symbols 
 without any discussion at all. 
 
 The HI^sTOKI(: Ei'isi kpatk. 
 
 Uev. Dk. (yAKKY, in iutrnducing his paper on tliis 
 subject said : A gentleman last night spoke very 
 emphatically about diocesan episcopacy. Diocesan 
 
 not our doctrine. Episcopacy 
 can exist without dioce.<»es F^very person who knows 
 much — or even little about Irish Christianity, from 
 
 i it/'' 
 
 It is our practice, but 
 
 the tiuie of >Nt. I\itrick onward, mu.st admit that the 
 ministry uf the Church in Ireland was three-fold: 
 bisho])s, priests and deacons. With that suggestion I 
 proceed. 
 
 Kcil<'sia-i refiinnatas lilientei :ini|)lectiir. Optaretn 
 f'luiilem o'^'iiMflti Kpiscojjiile bene teiiiper.ituin, et ah nmni 
 ill instil lioiuiiiiitiiirio Hejiinctaiu, i|uale apml nn.s ohtinet, et, 
 ^ii|iiiil e>,'ii in hi-i rflms sapiaiii, ali i|ni> Apnstolorum levn in 
 ecilt'rtia rereptum fiit^rit, et ali iii oninilms fuisset retentuni. 
 - {Ahp. Wflh tn \f. I., CIrrr.) 
 
 Cnioneiii arctioiem inter oilmen lefcu'inato.s prociirare 
 i|iiiivis prrtio velleiii (Ky means of Episcopal re^'imen.) Ibiil. 
 
 i}tini\ me pacis ccelesiasticie aniantissiniuin crodas ; 'nn- 
 iiiiniiie illi nirisi'iiiiinilii ilaii'lii /'Uti in, pru'ti i' rffilnlnn. -( Wnke 
 til Dii/.iii.) 
 
 "^•iiiiihni- tieii possit, si i|Midein aniiiiuin ad concnrdiam 
 proiiiptniii oiunes attnleriiiim, nullateiiua dubitandum est. 
 • ^iiin fieri defieat, nemo piiulens ne(,'averit, itc. — (Alip. Wake 
 t'l till' J'riif' ■•<■<■ ir.i mil/ I'aat'irx nf (irnei-n.) 
 
 A.D. 171"-171!>. 
 
 1. It is only mutual justice to assume, on the part 
 of all the members of this Conference, a s'nu-i rr lixiro 
 to attain the objects proposed in its a[ip(>intment, as 
 without this all must prove vain. 
 
 '..'. On all sides, too, it is only just t(j disclaim any 
 traitorous intention of compromising anything be- 
 lieved to be necessary truth, or of doing violence to 
 any conscientious conviction. Even in the present 
 siifiject, whicli seems the most difhcult we have to 
 treat, it is to bo hoped that none will be tempted to 
 swerve a hairs-breadth from truth and couscience to 
 secure a mere semblance of success. 
 
 o. Our business is to secure truth, and how to 
 reconcile the claims of individual conscience with the 
 interests of corporate re-union. If truth and con- 
 science are once secured, then it seems that mere 
 opinions, likes and dislikes, and everything simply 
 personal, must not be considered too great a sacrifice 
 in pursuance of si. great an end ; and, indeed, it is 
 clear that something, or even much, of this sort may 
 have to be surrendered in so sacred a cause. 
 
 4. To Viogin with : We conceive that neither truth 
 nor conscience will be aggrieved by the admission that 
 Episiiifim-ij as a fm-f has the prescription of time and 
 universality in the Church from the close of the Apos- 
 tolic period. Eusebius gives us lists of the bishops 
 of .(erusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Rome, Corinth, 
 Epiiesus, Crete, Smyrna, Sardis, .Vthens, Laodicea, 
 .\mustris liii Pontus. Hierapolis, Iconium, Tyre, 
 C.csarea (in Palestinei, Egypt. Thebaid, Pentapolis, 
 M,a>_'nesia. !\[eaiidrum, Trallis. Lyons, Eumenia, Por- 
 tus, Tarsus, Eniesa and (ia/.a. It will no* bo disputed 
 tliat Eusebius understands by bishops sucli as were so 
 c'J.led in his "Wii d:iv 'JCiO-iUO. Of c(.../se we are 
 not met, and it would bo highly unbefitting, to discuss 
 controverted subjects ; we want simply to see what 
 uround of fact and faith we can recognise as common 
 
II 
 
 i'i;(»("i;i:i)i\(;s ok ('(ixfciminci'. 
 
 t<i lis all : ;ind .slimild ,iiiy ileimir to thf date already 
 aasmiied, viz., the close ..f the A[)()Ht(.lic period, and 
 feel di8|H)8ed to put the settlement of the Ei.iscopal 
 reiiiiuen towards tlie close of the second century 
 even so its claim of prescriiitioii stainls L;ood. the 
 competency of (Jibl)on as a witness to a ?act of his 
 tory, where he stood entirely neutral, is not likely to 
 he iniini<^ned, and his t(>stiniony is, '•That the Epis- 
 copal form of <,'o\ernment appears to have heen intro- 
 dnced before the end of the tirst century. . . . -Nulhi 
 fcclesia sine Ei>iscopo' has heen ■.i/arf as well as a 
 maxim since the days of Tertidlian and Iren;eiis. 
 .\fter we have passed the dithculties of the lirst cen- 
 tury, we tind the Epi.scopal ;,'overnment universally 
 estahhshed, tdl it was interrupted by the republican 
 u'enins of the Swiss and (Jerman reformers, ' c. .\v. 
 Similarly the Lond.m Spn-hifor, if Hberal 'reli,'ious 
 views, in a revie of L'i,'htfoot's I'^natius, sins: 
 " That the Episcoj.al ,'overnment existed as a fact at 
 the bf-^dnnini,' of the second century is now re<,Mrded 
 as beyond all coiitrovensy. It is admitted by all' — 
 Dec. -26, 1H.S.""). 
 
 .■"). Should, however, the amplest reductions ever 
 proposed in controver.sy be concedeil, there must still 
 be recognised a prescription which is entitled t(. con- 
 sideration in all attempts at ai^'ivement ainon'4 Chris- 
 tians ; nor will it be i..issible, with i)ractic,al ridnds, to 
 rob seventeen centuries of occui)ancy of any of its 
 force by referring,' to the speculations and conjectures 
 of the learned as to the 'iriiicirs of the Christian 
 ministry, and especially of the Episcopate. It seems 
 unfair and unwise, and serviiii,' Do ^<iod pur[)ose, to 
 iio behind tin. earliest clear presentment of the 
 Church 3 settled re^'imen, as many investii^'atois are 
 now trying to do -the result bein.; diametrically 
 oppi;site theories, which is not to be wondered at in 
 the absence or the uncertainty of adeoiiate data. Nor 
 should this (Tnscurity prove a .stuiiiblint,' bh.ck to any 
 who ci>nsider how many solid tacts >>{ the hi-liest con- 
 secpience are in the like ccnditiou. The kiio>vlod-e of 
 the existing' constitution of the (Josmos sutfices for 
 our practical needs, thoiii,'h there are contrariant be- 
 liefs as to its oiii,'in. The validity of the moral .senti- 
 ments is acknowledL,'ed by many who account for their 
 1,'oiiesis ditlerently. The ob.scurity as to the "rowtli 
 of Parliaments has little to do with the duty <7i u'ooil 
 subjects. The want of minute information astt7fhe 
 ri.se of the ( 'hristian Sunday is not felt to lessen our 
 •ibliLcation to observe it. I!ut the nearest parallel is 
 one that touches us very much tin fnn,iiifi<^n of (h, 
 Xcir Ti'st<niir,if C.ninii. Of thef'liristian Scriptures 
 the Four ( JosiJcls especially labour under the same 
 olweurily of ori^dn as the Episcopate, indeed under 
 greater, as may be said without the lea.st exaL,'L;eration. 
 
 ThPV' 'ire broUL'bt d'".>.!! bv :lf! ■.:>!•.::! :T!f :.!=:.-. 7.. .......i! 
 
 the same date assigned to Episcopacy by its opponents ; 
 and it is a matter quite beyond disputation that the 
 
 Canon ia defomled by Prot. ,taut Christians by means 
 of the /•■/«/ siiiiH authtirities which ,ire empio\ed to 
 demonstrate the anri.piity of the Eiii.scopate,— so much 
 so, tliMt ,as re-ards external testimony the Canon and 
 Episcopacy stand or fall toL,'ether. .-VccordiiiKly, the 
 learned labours of Hisho]) Li^ditfoot in illustrating' the 
 Episcopacy of the lunatiaii period have .served a"st ill 
 wider luirpose, and laid all orthodox Christians under 
 obli^,'ation iiy oveitluowin;,' the destructive criticism of 
 the Tubiii'^rn divines, and establishini,' the early date 
 of our Christian Scriptures, by the very same iirocesses 
 employed in the elucidation of the E[)i8Co|)ate. If 
 Iren.eus and TertuUian are valid witnesses as to the 
 loiii,' anterior date of the CJuspels, so are they ecpially 
 ■4ood witnesses of the a.iti(|uity ot the Episcopate, 
 which they e.xiircssly trace to the Apostles, and in their 
 entire unconsciousness of any other statu of thini,'3 
 haviii'.,' ever existed in the Church. But even had 
 there b-en chaiiLte, it is clear that it was no revolu- 
 tionary chaiiLte ; that it was brouudit about in the pro- 
 foundest silence, as there is no trace of commotion ; 
 that it must have arisen from general causes, deep 
 and irresistible in the life of the Church ; and so ia 
 entitled to he re^ariled as a true evolution. These 
 considerati.ins may well comlude with a statement of 
 no small import : .V., <„,, ,/. „:•:, fhr Vali'lilij ,>J Epis- 
 ,;,p,,l o,-,/,*-,s— unless tlie Independent Idealist. 
 
 ti. Hy firfiii'i ,,,, fh;., f.,.-t we should i)e able to make 
 union a fact. No one proposes the acceptance of mnj 
 llnorij, or thinks of the imi.ositiou of umi do^imn. 
 There can hardly be any broader [ilatform than that 
 of the Church of England. She is content to state 
 tlie historic fact of the continued existence of Three 
 Orders in the niinistry from the Apostles' days, and 
 she leaves opinitni free absolutely, it seems. Thus 
 within her bosom is found a variety of opinions re- 
 spectini,' the nature, rise, powers, and othces of the 
 Christian minis. ry, while there will be f<iund a steady 
 determination not to surrender or abandon an institu- 
 tio.i which, so far as we know, is coeval with the 
 Church, and, at any rate, has come down to this day, 
 side by side with the New Testament, as j.art of her 
 inalienable lierita'.,'e. 
 
 7. A reconciling; statement, too, is that of the 
 learned professor, John Duncan, who idiserves that 
 •'on ordination days the wlndt- world is Presbyterian. " 
 Mishops are consecrated by three at least ; and in the 
 ordination of presbyters the [iresbyters present lay 
 on hands together with the ordainim,' bishop. The 
 introductory order of deacons is onlained by the 
 liisliop alone. 
 
 ^. Then, as to the exerci.se of the P]piscopal [lowors 
 in the i^overnmeiit of the Church, it is to be ob.served 
 i::,i; ijir;:::.;::; :ii„\ c not autoi;r,itic liiii consi iiutionai 
 authority, except in mere cases of abuse, or in mis- 
 sionary work, where the conditions may demand undi- 
 
()\ TMK sriUK<T OF I'NITY. 
 
 45 
 
 i 
 
 II 
 
 vi.le.1 responsibility au-l o.ntr.,1. Tako for example ^ 
 
 his tn«t Syn.Ml as fnlluWM : " 1 believe thu monarchical 
 ul.-a uf the Epiacopate to be as fore.L'.i to the tn.o 
 n.ind of the Ciiurch as it is adverse to the (.ospel 
 aoctrino of humility. I would rather resLMi my othce 
 than he reduced to act as a sniLjle isolated hein<^. It 
 remains, then, to .letine hy some ireneral [.nnciple the 
 terms of our cooperation. They are simply these: ^ 
 That neither will 1 act without you n..r can you ac 
 without me." But. in poitit of fact, the existin- se tied 
 dioceses of the whole .\n^lican commum<,n outside 
 En-land -o much further than this ; for Bishops, 
 cleruy and laity by representati.m. have each a veto 
 by which unity and consent are indispensable to any 
 act of leu'islatiou at all. And the same or some other 
 eHicac.ous provision for securing the full r.-'htso a 
 woidd be possible under the constitution of the ( hurcli 
 of the future. 
 
 ■• Besides, all that .,.•/.•/•.•.»,.•. ha' found useful in 
 liny ouarter by the parties to uniou-t.ircuits, Con- 
 ferenies, Presbyteries -could under the same or new 
 names, be retained and easily adapted to the new 
 
 " 10 Can any of us seri.-usly tiiink that the surrender 
 of names rather than thin-.s involved in the «"^'>-i;^^^ted 
 chan-es is too yreat a sacrifice to make for the fulhl- 
 ment: even in part, of our Lord and Saviour s solemn 
 prayer, " That they all may be one ( 
 
 11 It may well be doubted, too, whether any man 
 of so'ber judl'ment would venture t,. atttrm that unujn 
 would be promoted by the surrender of Lpmc.n>:-e>- 
 What c.mld tliere be in that to draw together duide. 
 Pivtestantism ' While to those sincerely desirous ot 
 union, a ministry of undisputed authority and an- 
 i ouity nu-dit well prove a real basis for union and 
 vc hn Indeed, thJ surrender of Ep-scopacy by any 
 t'rovincial church wouhl but .nake new and worse 
 Lhisms, and make old ones hop.less. It ^ould se - - 
 rate us from the An-lican Communion. It 
 destroy for ever the prospects ,.f ^^V;'"}^ "^^ :^^'^ 
 churches of the East-a work in which the En>;li3h 
 Church is new interested ; and it w..uld furnish the 
 Banalt^hurch with a new weapon of <.tTence, ami a just - 
 li catton (,n the eyes of the mass ,.f Christendom) such 
 as she has in vam sou'.,dit for heretofore. 
 
 !•> We are convinced that the position we advocate 
 in this Conference is more likely to secure ^''''''^^^^ 
 fV,r,/<,mand U.io. than existiim ^y^^*""" ; f " Z^'' ^ 
 commit the matter to your lovi.m and faithful con 
 sideration, and to the Cuidin- Hand of ( n>d. 
 
 It bein.4 now nearly ten o'clock the time tixed for 
 adjournment, a 'l-ussion t,..k pUce as^to tlie W 
 way ot lnomoi>; tiiv. jMp-.- - - , . 
 
 tuember of the '-'"f^'-^'^^'^.f'''- ;'"'7' ' ' , .vfs 
 number of suggestions were otlered, and hnally it «.is 
 
 Move.l by Ukv. Dk. Mookk, seconded by Mk. Wm. 
 Is;k, and resolved, '• That the Secretaries of this Con- 
 ference be authorized to prepare a careful »tatemcnt 
 of the proceedin-s ..f this Conference, and that these 
 be printed under the authority of this Conferenco f r 
 the use of the members exclusively ; and this state^ 
 ment should contain all the discussions, papers and 
 minutes relative to it." 
 
 Rkv. Dk. L viNd moved, seconded by Rev. S. Jones. 
 That the Secretaries, in furnishing ^he rep<.rt to the 
 newspapers, be instructed that they omit Dr. Carry a 
 paper. 
 
 After motions as to appointment of Delegates and 
 tlianks to Secretaries ; - 
 
 IlKV .lo.iN L.xN.rrKV suggested that a sub-committee 
 be appointed that would take into considerati.m such 
 oueitons as were submitted in Dean Carm.chae a 
 per-Muestions as to what basis of a-^reement m.«h 
 ffreachld. Such Coinmittees mi.dit meet with ote 
 another; and when we meet again we s.o id be able to 
 ake some statement which -'"I'lP-bably command 
 the consent of the whole body. Ihat ^v..uld bt one 
 way ..f keepinu' our deliberations in progress, and 
 reachin- some dehnite point when we meet again 
 In the Church of England at home there has l|een 
 f.^ a long time an associated effort in "'"ted prayer - 
 1 or the "accomplishment of this very object and 
 en have met together simply to pray that (.od 
 I wou'ld brnig about the result for w^hich we l^ave been 
 I deliberating here. As one result of t»HS net 
 we mi'dit have ..ccasional gatherings of that knul, 
 ospec ally in the larger cities. If we cannot l,ave 
 Serines, we ought to impress it on our own minds 
 ; af one of' the subjects of prayer in both public 
 ' uid private devotions. If not presumptuous he 
 wmtid to express his extreme gratification at the 
 ;;;nt which hL pervaded this -^ole council ami a 
 the results at which they have arrived. By brethrtjn 
 litl" Church of England he was held responsible for 
 haviii" bn.ught this matter into discussion. He con- 
 essed he had come to the meeting with so.ne trepida- 
 Uon He was warned that he would probab y earn 
 for himself the ciiaracter of a very rash man. He was 
 not afraid of venturing on that risk, however, and he 
 :l thankful to say that no one would be 'l-P--^ ^ 
 .rive hini that character to.n.ght--at least he did not 
 think so. Everybody feels that it has been good to 
 be here, and that nothing but good results can follow 
 i from our deliberations. 
 
 The BisHor of Hvkon said, that at the Synod next 
 
 : September no report would be looked ^"-vard t'. wM^th 
 
 ■ rreater interest, with more intense anxiety, than that 
 
 i wh ch will record the outcome ..f this C-mference ; 
 
 ! because throughout the lengtli ^aml brea^. of Jie 
 
 desiretoseeacorp..rate umty. -The members of the 
 
ri?<)('Ki;iirN<;s (»f conkkhknck 
 
 Churcli i)f Eiinland iin- iH't (Hily workiiit; foi it, but ho 
 uiis sure they iiru |)r:iyiiii,' fur it iiiiil wliat heyiiis in 
 [iriiyer will undoubtedly end in ptaise. It hiiH ex- 
 ct'cdod all that liociuM liii\ .• iiiiau'iued the haiiimny. 
 the love, and the i)roi,'ress made throui^'h the hlessini,' 
 of (»od. We have been led, unconsciously yet clearly, 
 to a very visible pro;,'re8S in a u'i'eat luoveiuent towards 
 corporate unity. l*eo]ile may say, No. Some may say 
 they cannot see it ; Imt we have been drawn by the 
 Holy Spirit nearer to the Lord, nearer to ourselves ; 
 and there .3 this feeliiii,', that members of these three 
 •.,'reat churches are at least willin'.,' to sit down in 
 brotherly love, i-nd to wei;,di over (juestions which 
 they all feel to be of the deepest and most important 
 character. It has been done in the spirit of love. The 
 j^reatest harmony and t;ood-will has prevailed iimon<4 
 us ; and we shall feel that the vine tree which has been 
 urowint; on either side of the wall of se[)aration is 
 U'rowin;,' higher, and de8[(ite all barriers the tendrils 
 will soon clasp uiioii the top, and the vine ai,'ain be 
 one. We will separate with the joy of the Spirit 
 with the gladness that the Lord has blessed us. Vou 
 will forgive me uttering these words which, if tliey 
 only expressed my feelings, were of little value. I 
 do think they express the feelings of many here. 
 
 I>EAN Cakmichakl moved a vote of thanks to the 
 different chairmen. He expressed the belief that 
 among the many acts of their livns that they will be 
 able to look back upon, tew will give them greater 
 l)leasure than the thought that they were placed in 
 a high and honourable position at tliis liistoric meet- 
 ing, which he hoped and trusted is only the first of 
 many to be held within the Church of ( Jod. 
 
 .rcDOE McDoN.VM) seconded the motion, which was 
 heartily carried. 
 
 The Chairman : I am sure you only want one word. 
 Thank you for each. 
 
 Rf.v. Dk. Caves, on behalf of the Presbyterian 
 delegation, e.xpressed the greatest pleasure at having 
 been present. We have learned to esteem and love 
 the brethren we have met. The names of the honoured 
 brethren with whom we have been in conference here 
 will be more than names to us in the future. A great 
 deal of the difficulty we often find in appreciating 
 each other's thought arises from tlie fact that we have 
 imperfect ac(iuaintance with each other. It is a great 
 deal to know one another, and to feel the breath of 
 warm, Christian affection about us ; because the work 
 
 of the Spirit of (old wiierevtir that work is ia esiien- 
 tially one ; and as a great Ctiristiaii autliority has said 
 a irreat servant of «"hri8t "' Wherever we find 
 Christ we find the (Jhurch. " No work that shall ever 
 be given utt to ilo m earth can be higher than this 
 work of seeking to bring the servants of (Jhrist nearer 
 together in the kiiowle<lge of Christ, of one another, 
 and the principles of His Kingdom, and of brotherly 
 love. This work cannot be lost. It may, in the Pro- 
 vidence of fiod, be found difficult. It may even be 
 found impossible — I trust not that incorporating 
 union will follow these our humble efforts ; l>ut this I 
 know, that having entered on this k in the fear of 
 
 (Jod ;<.nd in the love of Jesus Christ and of one another 
 the spiritual results cannot possibly be lost. 
 
 Hev. Dr. Wim.iams : In ex|>ressiiiiif his appreciation 
 of the Work in which they had engaged, said a great 
 deal more hail been accoin|)l shed than he thought 
 [lossible in the time. It is a great thing to have come 
 totrether and htoked one another in the face— to have 
 talked over matters in which we feel a common interest. 
 I am sure we shall appreciate the kindness and con- 
 siderati(jn of our brethren of the Anglican Church, 
 and of our brethren of the Presbyterian Church, and 
 we shall not forget the opportunity that has i)een 
 furnished for this Christian fellowship, and the ex- 
 press'on of their great love and confidence. The 
 union sentiment will grow, there is no mistake about 
 that. It will take hold of our feelings. Well, now, 
 for a Methodist, I don't think much about that— about 
 laying hold of the feelings— but it has taken h(dd of 
 my mind, my thuutjht, my judirment. My under- 
 standing has been thrown into it, and I begin to sec 
 that something will grow out of it that will be of great 
 advantage to the Church of Ood and of great advan- 
 tage to our country. I pray God that He may con- 
 tinue to abide with us. We are bound in love, in the 
 might of the Holy (Jhost, that the light of Christian 
 truth and Christian piety may be with us more and 
 more, and that we shall always know each other when 
 we meet, because we shall meet up yonder some day. 
 I hope we shall always know each other when wo meet 
 here. Cultivate the spirit of Christian friendship and 
 neighbourship, and (iod will gra:it us a blessing in the 
 accomplishment of every good work. 
 
 The minutes were then read and confirmod, and 
 the Conference adjourned after the Doxology had 
 been sung and the Chairman had pronounced the 
 Benediction.