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Laa axamplairas originaux dont la couvartura 0n papiar ast imprimAa sont filmAs Bn commandant par la pramiar plat at 9n tarminant soit par la darniira paga qui comporta una amprainta d'imprassion ou d'illustration. soit par la sacond plat, salon la cas. Tous las autras axamplairas originaux sont filmte mn commanpam par la pramiira paga qui comporta una amprainta d'imprassion ou d'illustration at 9n tarminant par la darniAra paga qui comporta una talia amprainta. Un das symbolas suivants apparaitra nur la darniAra imaga da chaqua microficha. salon la cas: la symbols -^> signifia "A SUIVRE", la symbols y signifia "FIN". Las cartas, planchas. tablaaux. ate. pauvant . IVsa"] Ans'd- — 189.... •mutVK' THE SENATE DEBATES SECOND SESSION-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT SPEECH OF THE HON. THOS. R. MqNNES ADVOOATINa THK ESTABLISHMENT OF A MIST I CANADA 5 O'I'TAWA, and JUNE, 1897 Hon. Mr. McINNES(B.C.) loseto move: That in the opinion of tiiiti House, it is lK)th deBinible imd expedient that the govennnent ahouhl, ut the earliest posnible date, establis.' a mint in (^inada, for the purpose of coining all tl.13 gold, silver and copper uurreney necessary to meet the Commercial reciuirements of the country. He said : — I am .sorry that the advococy of such an important question as the estab- lishment of a Canadian mint, has not fallen to the lot of some one better ([ualified and more familiar with the monetary institu- tions of this and other countries than I am, I am fully aware of the fact that many of my hon. colleagues in this chamber, are, or have been, presidents, vice-presidents, direc- tors and managers of banking institutic>ns, and many others who are not, or who have ^M iK tWN 2 not been directly connected with banks, have had long and varied business exper- ience, I therefore know md feel that loy audience this afternoon is a most critical one. However, having twice within the last nine years, called the attention of this branch of parliament — a branch, in my judgment, better qualified to consider a question of this kind, than the Commons — to this subject, I shall again endeavour to present such data, yes, such incontrovert- ible evidence, as, I believe, will convince every hon. gentleman of the urgent neces- sity of at once carrying out the object of the resolution before the House. Each year makes it not only more apparent and desira- ble, but also more imperative, that the government should establish such an insti- tution in our country — our country, Our Lady of the North, not " Our Lady of the Snows " as Mr. Kipling has libel lously called our beloved country. Of all the great and beautiful daughters of the mighty mother of nations, there is none so great, none so beautiful and altogether lovely as our Lady of the North, Miss Cana- da. T propose, in the first place, to lay lief ore you such facts as will put it beyond all doubt, beyond all cavil, that a mint can be established and operated at a direct profit, that it can be made a paying institution, a source of considerable revenue, and not a drain on the treasury as some people sup- pose. In the second place, I will show that there is no country in the world wi'.,h an equal population, or of anything like the same commercial importance, or producing the precious metals in such quantities — to say nothing of our illimitable re.sources and possibilities — but has its own mint and coins its own money. By reference to the report of the director of the mint of the United States for 1896, page 26, hon. gentlemen will find, though the coinage of silver has been greatly restricted for the last few years in that country, that tlie net seigniorage or profit on silver alone was last year no less than $2,503,056. And the net profit on silver since 1878 has amounted to the enor- mous sum of $78,145,603. So far, I have been unable to get accurate returns showing the profit made on the coinage of nickel and copper, but we all know they are much greater than on , silver, and must have amounted to several millions during the period I have just named. • The foregoing figures will give some idea of the immense profits made on the coinage of silver and the profitable use to which our neighbours to the south of us have put the principal portion of their silver liullion. Now, 1 will take hon. gentlemen a little nearer home and show what our government has done in the mat- ter of buying silver bullion and copper and having it coined in England. I have here a detailed statement furnished by the Fi- nance department, covering a period of fifteen years from 1881 to 1896, showing the amount of silver and copper coined in Eng- land and the profit made the: eon, and I have no doubt the figures given will surprise hon. gentlemen just as much as thej surprised your humble servant when he first saw them Here it is : — AMOUNT OF SILVER AND COPPER COIN- AGE SINCE 1881. Year. Silver. Copper. Total. 9 . -S 8 1882.. r>6o,ooo 20,000 670,000 1883.. 500,000 20,000 520,000 1884.. 300,000 20,900 .'?20,(X)0 18a5.. 130,000 25,000 128,000 1886.. 185,000 15,000 200,000 1887.. 260,000 15,000 275,00'» 1888.. 180,000 40,000 .Nil. 220,000 1889.. 186,585 186,585 1890.. 155,000 10,000 165,000 1891.. 100.000 10,000 110,000 1892. . .S98,000 16,525 414,525 1893.. 160,000 10,000 170,000 1894.. 144,.52<) Nil. 20,000 164,529 189.5.. 12,000 12,000 189fi.. 140,000 10,000 150,000 3,462,114 242,525 3,705,639 Total Profits. •S Ct8. 110.321 94 09,3<)4 26 (U>,6!I6 m 33,007 70 55,150 11 82,194 17 75.826 08 53.774 33 49,703 20 34,821 88 132,517 08 ()7,924 40 83,4.54 »!0 8,678 33 7C,rM)8 22 998,101 92 Nearly one million dollars net profit. These figures show that our government has made an annual net profit of .$66,540, for the last fifteen years in having its silver and copper coined in England, notwithstanding we had to pay the royal mint three per cent for coining our silver, and a Birmingham manu- facturing firm ten per cent for coining our copper. We paid the royal mint $103,863 and the Birmingham firm $24,252 or a total of $1 28, 1 1 5 for coinign our silver and copper for the last fifteen ye^rs, an annual average of $8,540 for work which, I submit, ought to have been done here at home and which, if done here, would have been to the mani- fest advantage of CunadA, as T will show later on. The gold product of Canada has I I I 7 3 been ov«r $73,000,000 in the last thirty- eight years. Of this large amount the Pacific province contributed over $61,000,000, Nova Scotia over $11,000,000, Ontario, Quebec and the Territories the balance. Nearly all of this immense amount of bullion has been shipped out of the country — principally to the United States — at a loss of over five per cent to the producer. I believe you will all agree with me when I say that the principal portion of that gold should have been coined and retained by us for the purpose of develop- ing and enriching Canada instead of a foreign country. Since I gave notice of this motion I have been frequently asked what seignior- age or profit is made on the coining of gold. There is practically no profit made on the coinage of gold in either England or the United States, other than enough to cover all expense in connection with mintage, the de- gree of fineness of the gold coin of both coun- tries being almost identically the same. The profits made by the mints of those two coun- tries are not derived from the mintage of gold, but from the coinage of silver, nickel and copper. As to the cost and operation of a mint, I find there is a general impression abroad that it would involve the expenditure of a very large amount of money. That impression is an erroneous one. A New England firm that manufactures all the inachinery and dies for the United States mints has offered to supply all the plant necessary to mint two million pieces annu- ally, for $25,000. Add to that say $50,000 for a suitable building, and the total cost need not exceed $75,000 to establish a first class modern mint capable of coining all the gold, silver, nickel and copper currency netes- sary to meet all the commercial requirements of this country for many years to come, and the annual cost of operating such an institu- tion should not exceed $8,000 or $9,000 or more than we now pay annually for minting our silver and copper in England. We once had a mint in Canada. Immediately before the union of the two crown colonies — Van- couver and British Columbia — in 1867, a mint was established in New Westminster, and I am credibly informed that the entire cost of building and plant did not exceed $20,000. After striking off a few $2.50, $5, $10 and $20 gold pieces, the mint was ordered to be closed by the late Sir James Douglas, who became the gover- nor of the united colonies, and for no other or better reason, it is alleged, than it would be the means of allaying the intense jealousy that existed be'^ween the rival cities of Victoria and New Westminster. To the courtesy of Mr. Courtney, deputy minister of finance, and Mr. Toller, the head of the currency department, I am in- debted for a great deal o^ valuable inform- ation bearing on the subjeot under consider- ation. Among other things they informed me there is about $10,000,000 in gold in the Dominion tre«^u,*y, nearly every dollar of which is United S^tates coin. As hon. gentlemen know, the government is required to keep in the treasury, at all times, twenty- five per cent in gold and guaranteed secur- ities, of which fifteen per cent must be gold, against all Dominion notes issued up to $20,000,000. Over that amount dollar for dollar in gold must be kept on deposit. Again, from the same source of information I learn that our chartered banks have in their vaults over $8,000,000 in gold, all of which is practically United States gold coin. In round numbers, between the gov- ernment and chartered banks, we have nearly $20,000,000 in foreign gold coin. I ask, is this creditable to Canada? Is it creditable to the government and people of a great gold and silver producing country 1 How much longer is this humiliating condition of affairs to continue? How much longer are we to be dependant on a foreign country for a gold currency ? How much longer is a national spirit, a national sentiment to be checked or suppressed ? How much longer withhold a Canadian gold currency which would be a token of our growing importance, and an evidence of our national prosperity? I ask, yes, I appeal to hon. gentlemen to assist in having this $20,000,000 of foreign coin replaced by a beautiful gold coin, on the one side of which there would be the profile of our venerable and belovbd sovereign, and on the other our national emblems, the beaver and the maple leaf. Why, I ask, has our government made the United States gold currency a legal tender 1 Was it to avoid the trivial expense of coining our own gold bullion ? If so, let us be logical and go one step further and make the United States greenbacks a legal tender also, ond thereby avoid the trouble and expense of manufacturing Dominion notes. The entire cost in connection with the government currency is in the neighbour- hood of $100,000 annually. To effect a saving in the cost of printing our paper cur- 196298 wm rency, we have taken the note-printing con- tract from a Canadian firm and given it to a foreign company. The decision of the government was baaed on sound economic principles, and, T am satisfied, will meet with tlie approval of the tax-payers generally. If the economy could have been effected by transferring thv^ contract from a foreign cor- poration to a Canadian company, the trans- action would have met with universal ap- proval It is just such a course I ask the government to pursue in dealing with the coin in circulation, to transfer the coinage from foreign countries to Canada, and I have shown by facts and figures which can- not be controverted, that the policy which I advocate will not only establish a new in- dustry in Canada, giving employment to our own people, but will result in an actual financial gain to the Dominion. There are two mints in Australia. The Sydney mint was established forty-three years ago, and the one in Melbourne about fifteen years later. India has also two, one in Calcutta and one in Bombay. All four are branches of the Royal Mint. The right of coinage has not been conferred on those self-govern- ing colonies, and before a mint can be estab- lished, permission must first be obtained from the Imperial government. Canada is in a totally different position in this regard. Section 91 of the British North American Act gives us absolute control over cur- rency and coinage. We have taken full advantage of the currency, but not of the coinage privilege. A couple of questions of detail have been frequently asked me within the last few weeks, namely, — Where would you have the mint, and what would be the denomination of the coins 1 My answer to the first is that the mint should be in that part of our country producing the principal portions of the metals to be coined, namely, British Colum- bia, unless some very good reason can be given to the contrary. If not in the Pacific province, then I unhesitatingly say it should be in Ottawa. My answer to the second question is this, taking everything into con- sideration, our gold coin should be precisely the same as that of the United States in degree of fineness and size, and, consequent- ly, of exactly the same intrinsic value. The denominations I suggest are $2.50, $5 and $10, as being the most convenient. Such coins would doubtless circulate just as freely OS do those of the United States. However, as I have said, these are matters of detail and give me little or no concern at present. What I am anxious about is to have a mint somewhere in Canada, the question of its location can be subsequently determined. The follow' :ig is a statement showing the per capita amount of gold, silver, and paper currency in circulation in the thirty-four principal countries in the world : — Amount of Gold, Silver and Paper Currency in Circulation — per capita— in the prin- cipal Countries of the World. United States United Kingdom France Germany Belgium Italy Switzerland Greece Spain Portugal Roumar.ia Servia Austria-Hungary Netherlands Norway Sweden Denmark Russia Turkey Australia Egy|)t Mexico Central American States, South American States . . Japan Iivdia China Strait Settlements Canada Cuba. Hayti. Bulgaria Siam Hawaii I > 9 cts. ' 9 cts !) 35 14 m 20 10 12 91 7 98 3 25 5 63 23 2 14 1 00 7 15 Co 3 76 5 58 3 75 1 77 7 17 3 88 2 27 26 53 18 47 W 09 1 n 1 81 2 76 3 3;^ 4 00 24 12 40 00 8 78 :i ic 12 82 3 98 9 05 1 26 70 (i8 2 74 1 46 1 96 74 1 46 11 71 1 00 1 02, 2 35 35 1 82, 1 43 74 7 70 2 14 97 1 99 3 21 2 08 63 68 1 03 83 4 50 2 06 38 66 10 00 9 cts. 5 90 2 84 2 55 2 41 11 51 5 46 4 77 6 45 5 72 11 11 2 19 1 30 4 .59 6 77 1 90 2 00 3 70 32 1 43 15 28 ■ "6 i2 6 03 4 io 9 cts. 24 03 20 80 35 47 19 28 28 49 9 96 10 80 7 36 10 60 14 16 11 30 2 69 9 81 24 (Mi 6 65 2 79 11 52 7 93 4 09 27 96 19 21 8 41 3 66 17 36 3 80 3 33 2 08 63 (>8 9 82 9 16 12 60 2 30 38 78 60 00 An analysis of the foregoing details shows that twenty-three out of the thirty-four countries have paper currency, and I am sorry to see that Canada stands sixth on the list. The countries that have a larger paper currency per capita are the South American States, $15.28; Portugal, $11.71 ; Belgium, $11.51; Netherlands, $6.77; Greece, $6.45; while Canada has $6.03. Eleven countries have no paper currency : three have no gold, all have silver. Only nine have less ,' 1 m silver than Canada, fourteen have leas gold, and twenty-eight have Ies.s paper. Australia has nine times as much gold per capita. Great Britain has more than tive times as much gold and three times as much silver. France has over seven times as much gold and over twelve times as much silver. Germany has nearly five times as much gold, and nearly four times as much silver. The United States has nearly four times as much gold, and eight times as much silver. Per capita Canada stands only twentieth on the list as to the amount of money in circu- lation, having, between gold, silver and paper, only $9.82. We have nearly twice as much paper currency as gold and sih'er combined. We have not a quarter the amount of silber coin we should have. I know that the managers of the British Columbia banks complain bitterly that they cannot get any- thing like the amount of Canadian silver they require and apply for, especially fifty 3ent pieces, and the consequence is they have to send to Seattle and Portland for United States silver. The aggregate amount of gold, silver and paper currency in the thirty-four countries under review, is as follows : — Gold, 84,143.700,000 ; silver, 84,236,900,000 ; paper, §2.558,000,000, making a grand total of 610,928,600,000. Of that amount Great Britain has $584,000,000 in gold, $121,700,- 000 in silver, and $111,800^000 in paper; a total of 8817,5000,000. France, $772,000,- 000 in gold ; $492,200,000 in silver, and $78,000,000 in paper ; a total of $1,342,200,- 000. Germany, $675,000,000 in gold; $207,000,000 in silver, and $126,100,000 in paper, a total of $1,008,100,000. The United States, $672,200,000 in gold, $631,- 400,000 in silver and $424,400,000 in paper, total $1,728,000,000. By these fignres it ■will be seen that the four countries just named have about one-half of the money of the world. I will now call your attention, hon. gentlemen, to this fact, that since I first placed this notice on the ordei' paper, I have had dozens of communications, letters and resolutions, passed by the diflferent boards of trade from Victoria, B.C., to Sydney in Cape Breton, sent me. Over 42 of the boards of trade have expressed themselves, with only three exceptions, in unqualified approval of the establishment of aCanadian mint. I have their communications here, but I do not pro- pose to read all of them to the House. I will take one as a fair sample of all, or nearly all, and that is from one of the principal, if not the greatest, commercial Boards of Trade in the Dominion. It is from the Montreal District Chamber of Commerce. I will read the memorandum that has been sent me, and also the resolution passed, approving of my course in this matter. It is a report of the Joint Committee on Finance and Legislation on the proposal for a Canadian mint, by Mr. J. X. Perrault. And I may say here that Mr. Perrault is the ex-presideut of the Chamber of Commerce, and a gentle- man to whom I owe a great deal, on account of the valuable information he has furnished me, and also on account of his sympathy and courtesy in this matter. This resolution was adopted at the general meeting of the Montreal Chamber of Commerce on the 2nd April, 1897, and reads as follows : — Thk Mostkkai. Distkiot Chamiiek ok commekck. Geiierul inoiitlily meeting, Friilay, 2nd April, 1897. Mr. Jos?. Contant, president, in the chair. After debat*. The following report and resolution were unan- imously adopted : — Report of the joint committee of finance and legislation on the proposal for Canadian mint, by Mr. J. X. Perrault, adopted at the general meeting of the Montreal Chamber of Commerce, of the 2na April, 1897. It seems that the time has arrived for the Dominion of C^anada to coin its own specie and thus free itself of the necessity of importing its gold, silver and copper coins, as it is done to-day. Our gold, silver, nickel and copper nunes which have recently so extensively lieen developed, are a sufficient indication that, having at home the raw material, manual labour asking for employment, it is the government's duty tocreate this new industry, which will l)enefit the whole country so exten- sively. On the Ist of February last, we find in the official Gazette, that there was in the banks of Canada during January an average specie reserve of $8,544,645, If we add - to this the government reserves and circulation, we easily arrive at an approximate total of SI'20,(M)(>,(XX». In the United States, the coiuage in 1896 was as follows : — Gold coins $08,878,490 Silver coins 11 ,440,641 Nickel and bronze . . . 869,327 Making a total pro- duction of $71,188,468 Representing a total coinage of 78,330,772 pieces. Knowing that this coinage of specie is a source for the state of considerable profit, besides giving profitable employment to a large number of people both in the workshops and in the offices, we are at a lu88 to understand why the government has not yet interested itself in tliis question. Taking the experience of the United States as a point of comparison, we tind that last year (1894) the receipts of the three government mints at Philotlelpnia, San Francisco and New Orleans have aggregated 83,384,(K19, and the expenditure, in which labour amounts to §8()5,S51, amounted to Sil,l(W,r>6:^, leaving to the government a net proHt of .«'2,22(),r)02 on the operations of the year 189(5, etjual to 19(> per cent on tlie working ex- penses. This profit is due to a large extent to the depre- ciation of silver, the price of which on the London market in 1890 lias l>een maintained at an average of ^).G7i cents an ounce, e(|uul to 1^.5*2 per gold dolhir, the equivalent of gold to silver being in the proportion of 1 to 30"58. The price of coinage at the Philadelphia mint for each dollar worth of coins has been S>,"<>9i386, and for the whole of t':e United States lS(),on,4r)2. The (^hamber of Commerce, at its last meeting, after approving in principle the establishment of a Canadian mint as entirely desirable, has been enilMirrasse«l by doubt with regard to the right of Canada to coin its own money. The opinion of tlie Chamber's legal adviser, con- sulted on this question, leaves no doubt on this right, which has been exercised for years by the Australian government. Mr. Beaudin's (>])inion confirms in every way the opinion expressed by Mr. J. X. Perrault at the last meeting. It is based on clause 91 of the British North America Act, which states that anurngst the subjects under the jurisdiction of the federal parliament are '•Currency an'^ C'-'-»age " which can leave no doubt that Ca as the right to coin its own money. .iiSSOLUTION. Whereas the federal government has so far issued only paper money which is printed in Canada, our silver and copper specie being coined in England and our gold reserve consisting entirely of foreign pieces — and Whereas the coinage of Canadian money would give the government considerable revenue and profitable employment to our working men ; Resolved, that the Hon. Minister of Finance be respectfully requested to put a stop to the impor- tation of foreign coins by establishing a national mint for the coinage of the gold, silver and bronze coins required by the Dominion of Canada. Here is the view of their legal adviser, dated the 24th of March, 1897, addressed to S. Cot^, Esq., Secretary of the Chamber of Commerce, Montreal : — Montreal, 24th March, 1897. S. Cote, Esquire, Secretary of the Chamber of Commerce, Montreal. SiK, — In answer to your favour of the 20th in- stant requesting that I should inform you if the Canadian constitution authorizes the federal go- vernment to establish a mint for the coinage of gold, silver and copper coins. I have the honour to answer that I entertain the opinion that the federal government has that au- thority. Referring to the British North America Act, 3() and .31 Vict. cap. .'{, sec. 91, paragraph 14, I find that the exclusive legislative authority of the Can- adian parliament extends between other subjects to tlie following : — cnrrr.nry and voinatje. Ak to currency, iMiilianient has declared what would l)e the money in paper or coins which would lie ad- opted as legal tenders in Canada. With regard to coinage, Canada orders its ooina at the British mint by special arrangement be- tween the two countries. But in examining the Imperial statute establishing the mint, I do not see that colonies are prohibited from coining their own money. This Imperial statute is the 33 Vic, chaji. 10, sanctioned in 1870, therefore posterior to the Con- federation Act. According to section 1 1 of this Act, paragraph 8, (Jreat Britain has reserved the right tor herself to establish branch mints in the several colonies, V)Ut I do not believe that this has been inserted in the Act with the intention of prohibiting the colonies from estalilishing mints for themselves. This disposition has the effect, according to my opinion, of allowing the Imperial Privy Council to establish by simple proclamation, a branch of the British mint in any colony which would make application for it. For, in referring to section 19 of the same Act, wo find that it will apply to the colonies only in case that the Executive Council should issue a proclamation to that t^ffect, which, from the context of the Act, could only be done by mutual arrangement between the colony and the Imperial Government. Your obedient seJvant, S. BEAUDIN, C.R. So that there can be no quesion as to the right of Canada to establish a mint for her own coinage. It will be remembered that a few weeks ago, in the debate on the Address in reply to the Speech from the Throne, I spoke of the mineral development taking place in the Pacific province. I know that several hon. gentlemen were of the opinion that I was a little too sanguine ; I thought myself that I was taking an exceedingly conservative view of the situa- tion of affairs in the Pacific province. To show this hon. House that I was largely within the mark, I will quote from the annual report of the Department of Interior, since issued, some extracts from the reports of Mr. Ogilvie relating to the far Northwest portion of our domain, which not only confirm what I said at that time, but go a great deal further. He has made several reports from time to time, at intervals of a few weeks, just as he could get carriers to take his despatches to the coast and have them transmitted through the mails to the department here. The first that I will quote is dated Fort Cudahy, Sept. 6th, 1896. He says : ■1 St i\ la bo News has just arrived from Bonaiim creek that 3 men worked out 5>7"> in four hours the other een found, which agnurea the cliaracter of the ground, namely, course gold and plenty of it, as three times this can lie done with sluice boxes. They worked that out with no other appli- ances than a common pan, such as a tin wash basin or milk pan. In another report dated 6th November, 1896, he say.s : In the lino of these iine taken out of the district in the next few years. On some of the claims prospected the pay «lirt is of great extent and very rich. One man told me yesterday that he washed out a single pan of dirt on one of the claims on Bonanza and found $14.'2'> in it. Of course that may be an exceptionally rich pan, but $5 to §7 per pan is the average on that claim it is reported, with 5 feet of pay ditt and the width yet undetermined, but it is known to be 30 feet even at that ; figure the result at 9 to 10 pans to the cubic foot, and 500 feet long : nearly §4,(X)0,0()0 at ^ per nan — one fourth of tliis would be enormous. Another claim has been prospected to such an extent that it is known there is about 5 feet pay dirt averaging 82 per pan and width not Jess than 30 feet. Enough prospecting has been done to show that there are at least la miles of this extraordinary richness, and the indications are that we will have 3 or 4 times that extent, if not all equal to the above at least very rich. Then the last report he sent out on the 22nd and 23rd Jauuary, 1897, is as fol- lows : — A quartz lode showing free gold in paying ([uan- tities has been located on one of the creeks, but I cannot yet send particulars. I am confident from the nature of the gold found in the in-eeks that many more of them — and rich too— will be found. ♦ «***» Fort Cudaiiy, 23rd .January, 1S97. I have just heard from a reliable source that tlie quartz mentioned above is rich, as tested, over one hundred dollars to the ton. The lode appears to run from 3 to 8 feet in thickness and is a])flut 19 miles from the Yukon river. I will likely lie called on to survey it, and will be able to report fully. Placer prospects continue more and more en- couraging and extraordinary. It is beyond doubt that 3 pans on diiTerent claims on Edorado turned out $204.00, $212.