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I propose to discuss this question, Mr, Speaker : I would have preferred to have addressed the House within reasonable hours, but as it is the will of this House that I shall not have that j)rivileg»% I trust to your indulgence possibly for two, or three, or four, or perhaps more hours, in which I shall speak, in accordance with thelaw and usag« of Parliament. We i... . e had a speech from the hon. the Miiiister of Kailways, iu which he made his annual stp.cement on the Pacific Railway; and wc have had also the annual review from the hon. niember for West Durham (Mr. Blake). I may say that the speech of the hon. the Minister of Railways was cheering ; it was full of energy and re- plete with information, and gave us con- fidence in the luture of our country. It ■will bo unnecessary for me to go into the whole of the details respecting the Pacific Railway, for the hon. the Minister of Railways has made detailed explanations to the House. I will, however, briefly refer to the whole line, from the railway system ot Ontario and Quebec to the Pacific Ocean. The first section to which I will direct attention is that between the Canada Central Railway, the Montreal, Ottawa and Occidental Railway and west- ward via Lake Nipissing to a junction wi^'i that section of the Canadian Pacific now in part completed and part under construction between the west end of Lake Superior and Selkirk. As I re- marked, t will avoid detail. Several Sessions ago, I made a statement to this House showing thut with a certain num- ber of wheat-growers, and with a certain acreage producing wheat, in Manitoba, the receipts from the transportation q^ wheat alone to Montreal would pay interest and sinking fund on the entire cost of the road, would meet the cost of maintenance, repairs, and operating ex- penses, avid leave a surplus to the credit of the country. In 1873, after the hon. memberfor Laml)ton became the head of the Government, I intimated to him the desirability of the early construction of this section, both as a matter of policy, and as a necessary public work, to unite the eastern Provinces with the Great West. But no step has yet been taken in that direction, except the subsidies granted to the Canada Central, and the proposed construction of the Georgian Bay Branch. The hon. the Minister of Railways, I was glad to observe, alluded very briefly to *iie possible early com- mencement of the construction of this great link of the Canadian Paoific, con- , necting the populations of Ontario and Quebec with the Great North-Wait i n |rt^ I, therefore, take this opportunity to say that, it will be sound policy on the part of this Government, at an early date, to construct this section connectino! the Quebec and Ontario system of railways with the section from Fort William to Selkirk, so as to carry grain through, on an all-i'ail route, to the ships in the eastern seaports of our Dominion. I support this policy, not merely as a party matter, but as a matter that concerns the interests of the Dominion as a whole, and affects particularly the two large Pro- vinces of Quebec and Ontario. Sir, I trust that the hon. the Minister of Rail- ways, during the Recess, will prepare a scheme for its early construction, and submit it for the sanction of Parliament at its next Session. A Railway can carry more chea[>ly than the canals. An Hon. MEMBER : No, no. Mr.DeCOSMOS: My hon. friend to my right says : " No, no," but I find, Sir, that reports respecting canals show this to be, as I state. The Railways from Chicago to New York, and the Railways from the West to Philadelphia and Balti- more, are carrying more than what goes by the water system. The steel- rail revolution has nearly overthrown lake and water transportation. Besides that the crowded passenger trains from the east, and the great volume of west- ward-bound freight, enables the eastern- bound freight trains to carry grain and provisions at such low rates as to make water transportation neither as profitable, nor as desirable as formerly, and conse- quently prevents the canals and lakes from being as great carriers now, relatively to the total vohime of eastern-bound freight in the United States as they once were in the past. At any rate we have spent since 1873 more than $15,000,000 to enlarge our St. Lawrence Canal system, and we do not get out of it enough to pay current expenses. The tonnage of the shii)ping in the lakes is small, in comparison to what might l)e expected, as a comllary to our grand scheme of water tran><porta tion. N^ell, Sir, returning from this digi'cssion. I say that the line between tl e Thunder Bay — Red River section, and ij;\e railway system of Ontario and Quebec, onj,nt to ]>e built, and built quickly and early. I will take up another point ; I believe the late Government made a mis- take in commencing work, in expending money, on the Lake Superior — Red River section of the Pacific Railway. It is really nothing more than part of the trans- continental line, it seems to me, to run as a competin;; line with the Pimibina section half of the year, and also as a com- peting line for the same jjcriod with the main trunk line between Selkirk and Nipissing when tlio latter shall have been completed. Tf proper energy had been manifested, and wis- dom displayed in the expenditure of the money on the through line \)etween Nipissing and Selkirk, the work would have been carried through and completed by this time. Now, Sir, with r«!si>ect to the Facitio Railway from Red River to the foot-hills of the Rocky Mountains, the hon. the Minister of Railways, with his energy and bold determination, has enunciated a policy for building it and opening up the country, which shows him accustomed to rule a country ; he has shown how the resources of the North- West can be developed and the country filled with population. 1 endorse that policy, and look forward to the near future covering that land with prosperous farms and thriving cities, with a net-work of railways like a spider's web. I believe the hon. gentleman is one of those states- men who does not propose to put on slow engineers ; but is one who wishes our navvies to drive the buffalo and the deer before them on their way westerly to the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Now, Sir, we have had speeches delivered here with respect to the land policy of the Government, — the land policy pro- pounded by the right hon. the Minister of the Interior, to settle the North-West with new provinces ; settle it with a daring, peaceful, industrious population, who will clothe that naked land with cultivated fields, huppy homesteads, busy villages, and ambitious cities, — the hum of their industries, along the line af the J'acitic Railway, girdling the con- tinent from ocean to ocean, and yielding Revenue more than will ropny a hun- dred times over and over again, tlie cost of its construction. I will not enter into detail to show liow the Government may be recouped by its land policy, for its e.^penditure in building the Pacific Railway. That has been well and fully done by the House policy of Railway, lieve thf good ; ant up the 1^ permanen any poll Whilst th GoTernme during thi the growt and Kansi Nebraska- ground, t was not a borders, a few lice only inhal tribes of t in Kansas then west Nebraska, Oregon ; n tana, Ida Washingto only orga Teriitory scattered s( of the Wal shores of Oregon, w. the Colum Nisqually ; land, with gathered ui and the Sti three hunc was then b the contin monthly fn ing about s then the wl tory has be^ possessing national lifi modern ci' wealth, at rivals in with Stai work of ( Western ] Colorado, !R Utah and Britiih Coli respects are fifty niilea Aafti done by the right hon. the Leader of the House, A\ hen he explained the financial policy of the Government i-especting the Railway. But, Sir, I will say that I be- lieve that policy to he sound and good ; and that it is calculated to build up the North- West as successfully, as permanently, and as rapidly as any policy that can be propounded. Whilst the Railway Land policy of the GoTerninent was under discussion, and during this dehat^, allusion was made to the growth of population in Nebraska and Kansas. Sir, when I firat slept in Nebraska — rolled up in my blanket on the ground, twenty-eight years ago — there was not a white settler's house within its borders. The frontier military posts, and a few licensed Indian traders, were its only inhabitants besides the wandering tribes of the plains. When I first slept in Kansas it was the same. There was then west of the Missouri, no State of Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Nevada, or Oregon; no Territory cf Dakota, Mon- tana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, or Washington ; no British Columbia. The only organised Governments were the Territory of Utah, composed of a few scattered settlements along the foot-hillt of the Wahsatch Mountains and near the shores of Salt Lake ; the Territory of Oregoxi, which hnd a few settlements on the Columbia, Willamette, Cowlitz and Nisqually ; the Colony of Vancouver Is- land, with » mere handful of whites, gathered under the guns of Fort Victoria ; and the State of California, with two to three hundred thousand people. There was then but one small mail that crossed the continent, and that was carried monthly from Salt Lake, each way, dur- ing about six months in the year. Since then the whole extent of that vast terri- tory has been covered with young nations, possessing all the elements of vigorous national life, enjoying all the appliances of modern civilisation, yielding fabulous wealth, and stoutly contending as rivals in the race of progi-«s8 •with States and Provinces, the work of centuries on this continent. Western Ne^bnvska and Kansas, with Colorado, Montana, Idaho, Washii\gton, Utah and Nevada, are no better than Briti:ih Columbia, and in many importfti.t I respects are far worse. Two hundred and [fifty miles west of Missouri River, Nebraska and Kansas cease to be agricul- tural states. Thence for sixteen hundred miles west, till the valley of the Sacra- mento is reached, no cultivated land exists, — except patches in Utah nourished by irrigation. North and south, east and west, it is mountains with untold mineral wealth, and vast plains that will ever remain pasture lands, amid irredeem- able deserts. The consequence is that when the western limit ot cultivable lands in Nebraska^ Kansas, and contiguous territories, shall have been occupied, the tide of population flowing westwardly in the United States in search of arable land, will turn northwardly and spread itself over the fertile belt in our Great North West. Of this, there seems to me to be no doubt. Hence the policy of Government in pushing onward vigorously the Pacific Railway — providing rapid facilities of transportation for our own immigration and the coming tide from the south — commends itself to every patriot. The hon. gentlemen opposite, ever since the Debates this St'ssion began, and ever since the admission of British Columbia, have declaimed against the building of a railway at such a vast cost. Why, Sir, the total amount for tlie whole line, some $80,000,000, would be voted by this Parliament at once, for the purpose of defence, if a war broke out to-morrow, and would be voted without a dissenting voice. Sir, if the expenditure for the Railway, is spread over eight or ten years, it is small in comparison to such an expenditure for defence purposes; for war expenditure would be an expendi- ture from which we should Bee no great reproductive works in the future, but would be spent at once and lost for ever. But this Railway is a great work, a great national work, that will be vahi- able for all time; and would become more and more valuable year after year. War would ensure a vote of a vast ex- penditure of millions, entailing the slaugh- ter of our sons, the destruction of our property, and manifold miseries ; whereas here, we hesitate and object to a vote foi a peaceful purpose ; for a ■ -ilway that will always be an instrumt : of peace, and an implement of war. Let me draw th« attention oi the Houw to some statements made by the Toronto Olohe, while the hon. member for Lamb- ton (Mr. Mackenzie) was the leader V' M ;■, of the late Government, on the 31 at of August, 1876. It vr&s made at the time that Lord Dufferin was in British Columbia on p mission that proved to be a failure ; was made after the route for the Pacific Eailway had been adopted from T6te Jaune Pass to Fort George ; and was published, no doubt, semi-offi- cally by the hon. member for Lambton to influence the people of British Colum- bia. It is as follows : Thunder Bay to Red River, 413 miles, Red River to Livingstone, 271 do Livingstone to Edmonton, 616 do Edmonton tu Yellow Head Pass, 283 do Yellow Head Pass to Stewart River, 260 do Stewait River to Bute Inlet, 288 do average per mile 328,000 |ll,430,00u 16,.S()0 4,4'20,000 19,000 9,772,000 19,000 6,601,000 20,000 5,33.5,000 46,500 13,420,000 do do do do do Total miles 2,031 French River to Thunder Bay, 620 do Total through line 2,651 miles. do Total cost $50,978,500 40,000 24,800,000 Total cost 875,778,500 Branches, Georgian Bay Branch, 80 miles SI, 120,000 Pembina Branch, 89 miles, at $15,000 per mile 1,335,000 Subsidy to Canada Central, 120 miles, at $12,000 per mile 1,440,000 3,895,000 Total cost Pacific Railway 379,673,500 The hon. the Minister of Railways, I be- lieve, estimated the cost of the Pacific Railway from Thunder Bay to Biirrard Inlet at $64,000,000. This is higlier than the Globe's semi-official statement in 187(3, for the longer and alleged more costly line from Thunder Bay to Bute Inlet, namely, §50,978,500. Sir, if this estimate of the hon. member for Lainbton and his Engineers were true in 1876, it is true now, and shows that what tho hon. members opposite sometimes allege to be a work of appalling magnitude is no such thing, and that the objections that they urge are consequently unreasonable. No reasonable public man will truthfully say that $50,978,500 to construct the Pacific Railway in ten years to come from Thunder Bay to the Pacific is a sum of such apjmlliug magnitude that the people of Canada cannot bear the burden. But, Sir, no matter which is right, the esti- mate of the hon. the Minister of Rail- ways or that of the hon. member tor Lamb- ton, we should not halt ; but should com- plete the Railway to the Pacific within the next ten years. The line from Thunder Bay to French River was esti- mated by the Globe to cost $24,800,000 ; the Pembina Branch, the G|orgi!m Bay Branch, and the subsidy to the Canada Central at $3,895,000; making the total cost of tho Pacific Railway from Frencli River to Bute Inlet, $79,673,500. Tliis differs little from the estimate of tlie hon. the Minister of Railways, which I under- stood hi m to fix at $82,000,000, for the entire Ri'ilway when completed and in operation. Now, Sir, the highest esti- mate of the cost of the Pacific Railway completed is nearly $6,000,000 less than the total sum given by the Dominion, the Provinces and the Municipalities, in aid of Railways throughout Canada up to 1879. The Railway statistics supplied to Parliament up to April, 1879, are as follows : Amount of aid for Railway. Dominion $65,939,900 81 Ontario 2,229,639 02 Quebec 8,513,613 27 New Brunswick 2,730,0t;0 00 Nova ScofcTa 818,750 00 Muuicipalitiea 7,224,578 63 Total $87,456,481 43 This sum has been spent within the last fifteen or twenty years. Yet the country is none tlie poorer ; in fact, it is far richer. The people are as well clothed, fed and housed as they were before its ex- penditure ; and are better able to-day to expend $80,000,000 in the construction of tho Pacific Railway than they were at any period during the expenditure of tlic $87,456,481. The aid for railways was l)ai4 in bonds, loans, taxes; but the Dominion will re[)ay herself the total ex- penditure for the Pacific Railway out of revenue received from the sales of land From tl British two ye;i to Nov among exportf bee, an they ex wick, Coin ml ported cess mncli Nova The pe bia we Prince Qeorge ; lemi-offi- jaml)ton Colli na- il, 430,00u 4,420,000 9,772,000 <;, 60 1,000 5,335,000 13,420,000 50,978,500 24,800,000 75,778,500 3,895,000 r79,«73,500 I under- 0, for the id and in liest esti- I Railway ) less than Dominion, palities, in nada up to 1 supplied 871), are as of aid for Iway. ),900 51 ),639 02 1,613 27 ),0i!0 00 },750 00 1,578 63 3,481 43 in the last the country , it is far ell clothed, ;fore its ex- le to-day to onstruction liey were at ture of the .ilways was ; but the he total ex- ilway out of ales of land along the line. The proposition of the hon. nieml)er for Lamnton was that $80,000,000 would build the Pacitic Rail- way ; and I do not think that there is a shadow of doul)t but that tliat sum will be sufficient. Sir, this completes my re- view of the Railw.iy to the foot-liills east of the Rocky Mountains, and brings me to the motion of the hon. member for West Durham (Mr. Blake), wlio wishes that the road should not be constructed in British Columbia. The Ksqiiimalt-Nan- aimo section of tlie Pacific Railway, W(> look upon as i> road to bo built by the Government of Canada, in accordance with the contracts with Columbia, in the Terms of Union, and in fulfilment of the Carnarvon Award ; but I will select some other opportunity todoal with that question. Before I deal at length with the motion of tlie hon. member for West Durham, T wish to draw attention to some lJ,L;ureM in rejrard to Jjiitish Columbia. The hon. gentleman said, in his speech, that we had only 12,000 of a population in that Pro- vince. Some years ago the hon. gentle- man said, at Walkerton, the population was 2,000. I am glad tl>at he has given us credit of an increase of 1 0,000 ; but, never- theless, I will endeavour to sliow that he is as mistaken as a statistician as ho is as a statesman. I will first di'aw attention to some figures in regard to the imports and exports of Britisli Columbia, as com- pared with the other Provinces. I will not go into all my figures at this lato liour, and weary tlio Jfouse, but I ex- pect the Hansard report to take tliem in full, as tliey are tabulated in order tliat tiiis Hou.se, aufl this country, may know the true relation that British (.■oluinbia bears to the rest of the Domin- ion. I will confine myself only to such explanations as wiJl make my statistics more intelligible. The first table is as follows: — Statejiekt of the Import3 and Exjxirt? of tlic Provinces for 1878-79, compared with each other on the basis of Population. Provinces. 1878-70. Import"). 34,105,826 30,924,824 7.062,61! £,298,454 1,140,871 2,440,789 83.5, .569 NoTa Scotia. , . N. BrunswioW.. Manitoba Brit. Columbia P. E. Island. . . 1878-79. Exports. $ 21,706,806 28,880,492 7,.326,018 6,371,471 512,87.S 2,7.5.5,972 1,831,389 187i-7J. Excerfij of Kxp.)rtsovc!r Import:). s 12,39!),()20 2 044,332 Nil. Nil. fi'-'7,90S Nil. Nil 1878-7r. Excess of Kxports over Im- ports . .«! Nil. Nil. 263,404 7.5,017 Nil, 31.5,183 095,820 Estimated Population 2,000,000 1,.500.000 400,001 300,000 50.000 50,000 100,(K)0 Per Ca- Per Ca- pita Tin- • pita Ex- ports', ports. .$ eta. 17 05 20 61 17 05 17 65 22 80 48 81 H 35 ^ cts. 10 S.5 19 25 18 01 17 90 10 25 .55 12 18 31 I. 5 '3 <a a •> M?3 rt « 2 .- id -' ~ a Eh S .•§ cts. $ ct i 6 14 1 36 Nil. .Nil. 12 56 .^•il. Nil. Nil. Nil. Cfi 25 Nil. 6 30 9 95 From this table, it will bo observed that Briti.sh Columbia, although only twenty- two years old as a Province, stands next to Now Brunswick, and fifth in rank among the Provinces as an importer and exporter of merchandise. Ontario, Que- bec, and Manitoba imported more than they exported ; Nova Scotia, New Bruns- wick, Prince Edward Island, and British Columbia exported more than they im- ported ; and British Columbisi's ex- cess over imports was nearly as nincli as the aggregate excess of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. The per capita imports of British Colum- bia were six times more per capita than Prince Edward Island, nearly three times more per capita than either Ontario, Nova Scotia or New Branssvick ; and more than double the per capita imports of Quebec and Manitoba. Her exports per capitn. were five times more than the per capita exports of either Ontario or Manitoba, and three times more than either Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Bruns- wick or Prince Erlward Island. These are incontrovertible facts that I submit to this House, and press upon the atten- tion of the hon. gentleman who has moved a repudiation resolution. I will now draw your attention, Sir, to a summary state- ment showing the exports of each Pro- vince under their respective heads. It is as follows : (i '.'I Statemext showing Exports of the difTereiit Provinces unJor their rospectivo hoads. — 187S-9, Trovinoei. Mint. Ontario QueboD ' Nova ScoHa. . . New Brunswick Manitoba P.E.Island. .. Brit. Columbia Total 825, 7«9 236.448 3.15,985 153,44!) 30!t 45 ,530,812 FUhery. « ' 95.531 797,6fi2 4,498,995 681,124 2,635 219,431 643,493 3,0 .'J.gW 6,928,871 I Forest. a 3,253,724 f.,274 S94 796,703 3,622,514 Nil. 40,258 273,366 Animals and their Produce. AKrieul- tural Produeti. 1.3,261,459 5,726,453 7,043,290 332,272 121,1631 474,071 74,545 268,671 14,100.604 10,410,174 7,253,052 509,225 185,071 33,752 1,234,68 2,505 19,628,464 Manu- facture!. S85,740 !* -.3,242 4; 3,753 U! ',0tVJ s'M 2."»6,.VJ2I Nil. Mlacel- Iun(x.iu8. 3,700,281 a 229,219 93,949 879 12,952 Nil. Nil. Nil. 380,281 Thi.s statement shows that British Col- lunbia expoiied one-half of the total ex- ports of tbo j)roiIueo of the mines of the Dominion ; and in tliat class of exj^orts take.s tiie first rank. She stands fourth in rank as an exporter of the ))roduce of the Fisheries, and exports three times more than Prince Edward Island that i.s so urgently asking for a share of the Fishery Award. As an exporter of the produce of the forest, she stands filth in rank '. and fifth also in rank as an ex- porter of animals and their jjroduce. In agricultural products she is the smo.llest exporter ot any of the Provinces ; but I predict that af't>^r the Pacific Railway all have been comjdeted, she will export more than any other Province. Besides her ex[)ortH, tlie value of her agricultural products, farming and stock-raising can- dot be less than $1,000,000, and her pro- ductive industries of other kind?!, $750,000, making the total value of pro- ducts for domestic use, .$1,750,000 in 187s'-9, or the total aggregate value, in that yc;ir, of exports and pro- ductions for domestic vise, $4,.500,OO0. Need it be wondered at, then, in British Columbia, with half her populatioii Indians, has confidence in her own magnificent resources, and conten*, if need be, to stand alone, that she is proud of her position and power, and that she treats with disdain those wl.o would violate their pledges, and ti'umplo under foot the most solemn obligations 1 I will now, Sir, bring under the notice of the House a .statement of the trade between Briliijh Columbia and the other Pro vinces. It is as follows : — Si'ATEMKvr of lutur-Provincial Trade, l)etwecn Btitith .Columbia aud tbo Eastern Provinces, since 1871. (Jooda imported into British Columbia from Eastern Provinces, since 1S71. July, 1871, to June 30, 1872 $ 22,214 52 1873 75,604 08 187-?- 6ii,l04 17 1875 117,054 l(i 1876 129,735 13 1877 160,814 00 1877. to Dec. 31, 1877 57,162 00 Year " 1878 169,7.')3 00 " 1879 184,564 00 1872, 187.3, 1874, 1875, 187(J. Total Imports by B. C. froui other Provinces §983,005 60 Total Exports of l>.(J. to otlier Fro- viuces in gold uraft^ to piy for Imports .*9S3,005 50 In round number.^, British Columbia has purcha.sed in eight years and a-half a million dollars' worth of mercliandise of Ontario and Quebec, principally the form- er, and paid for it in gold. Tlio .^>0,000 Columbians — whites, Chinese and Indians — have, within eight years aiid a half paid Ontario and Quebec $20 each for goods produced in this country. That $1,000,000, when passed from hand to hand in trade, has added $5,000,000 to the aggregate volume of thdr domestit: trade, and has contributed to the support of hundreds of operatives and hundreds of families, — and yst that is but the dawning of the inter-provincial trade with tho Pacific Provinct). When there are one or two hundred thousand of a whita population on our western coasts, when tl)o Pacific Raitway, completed, shall carry cheaply across the continent, the domestic market offered to eastern manu- iacturera in British Columbia, will be worth its $1,000,000 or $2,000,000or mora a year. Probably neither the Oovernment nor Opposition have noted this inter-pro- vincial trade m the past, or forecast its I'roTlnc* Totiil. . —1873.9. Mlacel- Iiintxjus. •J I « 229,219 93.949 879 12,952 Nil. Nil. Nil. ;!.SG,281 ito Hritisli since l.'^71. ? 22,214 52 7r>,()04 08 (ii(,l04 17 117,054 l(i 129,735 13 100,814 00 57, 162 00 169,753 00 184,564 00 §983,005 50 .?9S3,O05 50 luinljia luis I ii-hiilf a jliiindise ot' y the form- riio 50,000 nd Indians mi a half L) eacli for try. 'J'liat II hand to 000,000 to :• domestic; he support lUndreda of le dawning with tho there are of a whita asts, when sted, shall inent, the ;ern manu- 1, will be )00ormoro overnment inter-pro- orocast its volume in tho fntnro. It is, neverthelesH, a growing,' donientic trade that will he swollen into grander dimensions as the Pacific Railway progresses towards com- pletion ; and after its completion, onr merchants and manufacturers of Old Canada and the Maritime Provinces will not merely sujjply manufactures for domestic consumption on ourwesteni coast and great North-West, but will enter into earnest, competition with the advanced nations of the world to supply our domestic manufactures to a thousand foreign markets around the Pacific Ocean. Mr. speaker, I will now draw your atten- tion to the taxes paid by Britith Columbia and other Provinces into tue Federal Treasuty. I will iii-st give a statement ot what each Province paid in Customs in 1878-9. It is as follows : — Statkment showing wJiat each Province p.iid in Customs into Conaolidated Fund in 1878-9, and what they would h.ivo paid at the rate per capita paid by Brit'ah Columbia, on an eatiixated pupulatiou of .50,000, iuoluding Indians ; and also on 25,000, by reckoning 25,000 Indiana equal to 5,000 white con- sumers. I'ri'TlncM. 1879. CiiMii.infl Piild. t Estfmnteil n|tUlu1i('Il. Ontario Quebcu Nova Scotia N. Uruiis'k. P. E. Island Manitoba ... U. Columbia Total.... 4,978,.'il4 4,7HS,i)l!» l,204,2Sl) i.oaa.Wi" 27o,484 521,44;) :l 2,000,000 i,:.0(i,ooo 400,lX)0 3 0,000 100,000 ,10,000 .'lO.OOO 13,040,531' 4,400,000 20,?40,0O0 15,030 too 4,1(!!('0(;0 8,120,000 1,042,000 5-Jl,000 621,443 45,848,433 Wonlil ImV palil, I'lilc:!!- lulliiKlirit- lull r'ii)iji|,'a lioiiulatli'M at M.(i'jii. nt cupitit. 9 41,08(1,000 31,2611,000 8,33B,C00 0,252,000 2,OS4,000 1,042,000 521,443 l*l,17.'),44t This statement shows that the entire Customs paid by the all the Provinces into the Consolidated Fund in 1878-9, was $13,040,331. That if Ontario, Que- bec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Manitoba, and Princo Edward Island, had paid in Customs into the Consoli- dated Fund, at tho same rate per capita aa Biitish Columbia, tho total amount that it would have reached, is.f 45,848,433 ; and if at tho same rate per capita as British Columbia really paid, assuming that 25,000 Indians are only equal to 6,000 white consumers, the amount paid by all of the Provinces into the Con- solidated Fund would have reached the enormous sum of §91,175,443. From this statement hon. gentlemen, Sir, will j)erceive the astounding disproportion between tho Customs taxes paid by British Columbia, and what was paid by the other Provinces. If they had paid in Customs dues at !j 10.42, the British Columbia per capita rate on a population of 50,000, they would have paid more than three times tho amount they did ; and if on the reduced basis of population for British Columbia, they would have paid six times the amount in Customs that they did. But, Sir, 1 will not weary tho House with further e-Kplanations under this head, but I will draw your attention to another statement comparing the per- centage of (Customs collected in British Columbia with that of other Provinces, and the proportion that the population of that Province bear.H to tho other Pro- vinces, I will read it. It is as fol- lows •. Statement of Custon^s collected in British Columbia durinn the fiscal year, 1878-9, com- pared with the Customs collected in tho same period in ( 'tario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Mani- toba ; showing, also, the proportion of popu- lation in those Provinces to that of British Columbia : — ONTARIO. " Columbia paid in Customs an amount equal to lOJ per cent, of the sum paid by Ontario — that is, 50,000 Columbians paid .§521,443, and 2,000,000 Ontarians taid 84,978.514, the pro- portion of population being 1 to 40, or 5 Colum- bians to 200 Ontarians. QtTKBEC. " Columbia paid in Customs an amount equal to 10 7-8 percent, of the sum paid by Quebec — that is, 50,000 :3olumbians paid $.521,443, and 1,500,000 Quebecers uaid §4,788,919, the pro- portion of population being 1 to 30, or 6 Colum- bians to 150 Quebecers. NOVA SCOTIA. " Columbia paid in Customs an amount equal to 43 3-10 per cent, on the sum paid by Nova Scotia— that is, 50,000 Columbians paid $521,443, and 400,000 Nora Scotians paid $1,204,289, the proportion ofpopulatien being 1 to 8, or 5 Columbians to 40 Nova Scotians. NEW BRUNSWICK. " Columbia paid in Customs au amount equal to 49 3-100 per cent, of the sum paid by New Brunswick— that is, 50,000 Columbians paid $531,443, and 300,000 New Brunswickers paid $1,063,447, the proportion of population being I to 6. or 6 Columbians to 30 New Bruns- wickers. PRINCE HOWARD ISLAND. " Columbia paid in Customs an amount equal to 150^ per cent, more than the sum paid by Prince Edward Island— that is, 50,000 Colum- bians paid $521,443, and 100,000 Prince Edward Islanders paid $208,438, or Columbia paid $250^ f !( to flOO paid by Prince Idward Island; or 1313,005 more than Prince Edward Island, the proportion of population being 1 to 2, or 5 Col- Hmbians te 10 Prince Edward Islanders. MANITOBA. '' Columbia paid in Customs an amount equal to 87 8-11 per cent, more than Manitoba — that is, (asaumine the population to be equal,) Columbia paid SI87 8-11 to $100 by Manitoba, or $521,443 to $275,484 by Manitoba, an excess over Manitoba of §246,959." This statement ia so full and clear, Sir, that it is unuecessary for me to enter now upon an explanation. I will, there- fore, come now to the Inland Revenue paid by the different Provinces, and 1 submit the following statement. Inland Revenue.— Excise, Source* of Fevcaue: Spirits, Malt Liquor, Malt, Tobacco, Fctro- leum Inspection, Manufactu.;es, Seizures and other Keceipta, 187S-&. Estima- More I.fNS Province. teU Total Per tlinn than Poimla- Excise. Capita f(.l- el- tiuii. umbiu unihin ■ • < 8 ••J Ontario 1,000,000 8,383,316 111) 66 Nil. Uuebeu Nova Scotia.. 1,600,000 1,472,».'>0 08 34 Nil. 400,000 Si2,011 65 Nil. oow N. Brunswiclc. 300.0C0 iisi.seo 7-1 10 Nil. P. E. Island.... 10!',000 60,371 Of)0 Nil. 14 Manitoba 60,000 54,V!2H 1 OS 44 Nil. 11. Columbia... 60,000. 32,31tf 004 Nil. Nil. In this statement the estimated population of each Province is given, the amount paid by each Province, the rate per capita in excise in each, and the amount per capita more or less than in British Col- umbia. It shows that the Excise paid in Ontario is 55 cents more per capita than in British Columbia ; 34 cents more in Quebec, 10 cents more in New Brunswick and 44c. more in Manitoba ; and that it is 9c. less in Nova Scotia, and 14c. less in Prince Edward Island. This shows that British Columbia pay« more per capita in Excise than either Nova Scotia or Prince Edward Island and less than the other Provinces. What she is, however, deficient in her contribution to Excise, in comparisoa with some Provinces is a hun- dred times counterbalanced by her pay- ments in Customs in excess of all others. Before leaving this question, however, I may remark that we had, a few days ago, a discussion on the Tariff. The whole energy of the Opposition and whole strength of the Government was directed to one point — the Customs Revenue and how it was levied. No on«, so far as I recollect, touchtd upon Excise and Stamps, amounting to over 15,500,000, nor upon Post-office and Public Works, and other raceipts aoiount- ing in all to over $4,000,000. My hon. friend from North Norfolk (Mr. Charl- ton) did discuss the sale of Crown Lands ; but not with respect to Kevenu*. His argumonts were directed solely to the best mode of managing our North-West lands, w'th a view to settlement. Out of $22,517,381, the total Consolidated Revenue for 1878-9, the Customs only yielded $12,900,659. The difference, $10,000,000, in round numbers, remained unquestioned, showing the opinion of th«' Opposition to be, if it showed anything at all, that the sources of Revenue, other than CustomH, jus managed by my hon. friend the Minister of Finance, to be in % state of perfection. Even the long and wearisome discussion on the Tariff by hon. gentlemen opi)osite, amounted to little or nothing ; for, if they wei*e in otHoe to-morrow, they could not reduce taxation, because the obligations of the country are such that taxation cannot be- low ered : and hence some other expedient must be adopted to lighten the burdens of the people, if too oppressive. We will con- sider now the Consolidated Revenue, and Expenditure with respect to British Columbia, inasmuch as our Province has been supposed by hon. gentlemen opposite to be a poor contributor ; also to show the payments required ot each Province, and to show what British Columbia is entitled to pay at the ordinary j)er capita of the Do- minion, as her share to the Consolidated Fund, and her share for Public Expendi- ture. I have in my hand a summary detail, from the Public Accounts, of the Consolidated Fund and Expenditure for 1878-9, which I will give to the Jfaiiaard reporter for insertion, and not enter upon the full details now. The summary is as follows : SUMMARY OF OONSOLIDATED FUNU. Taxe», 1878-9. Custonaa $12,900,659 Excise 5,390,763 Bill Stamps 185,199 ToUl $18,476,613 Other Rtceipto. Poet OlTice *. . . . 1, 172,418 Public Works, including Bailwayi 1,863,149 9 '•d upon to ov«r ice and anaount- 'y hon. Charl- n Lands ; iu«. His to the irth-WeBt Out of isolidated ;oin8 ouly liffereiice, remaiiied in of the anything uo, other njy hon. to be in a long and Tariff by ) nil ted to wei-e in :it reduce ns of the lannofc be expedient )urden3 of e will con- Ke venue, to British )vince has n opposite show the ice, and to mtitled to >f the Do- isolidated Expendi- suminary I, of the litnre for Ifansard iter upon Jimary i* run. 12,900,669 5,390,763 185,199 18,476,613 1,172,418 1,663,149 Interests on Investments (perma- nent) 621,494 Interests on Investments (tempor- ary) 71,006 Ordnanoe lands 40,849 Casual 47,021 Premium and Disoount 460 Bank Imposts 2,853 Fines, Forfeitures and Seizures.. .. 32,148 Tannage Dues (River Police) 21,361 do (Mariners' Fund)... 37,767 Steamboat Inspection 12,831 Fisheries 17,738 CiUl.rs 24,715 Militia 16,031 Penitentiaries 53,115 MiscellajieoiiR Receipts 15,325 Superannuation 41 ,959 Dominion Laud'* (Manitoba) 23,828 Dominion ' era 1,612 Gas Inspection and Law Cltamps. . 3,172 I 'ranee Inspection 6 J.34 V\ eights and Measures 13,685 Siimmf.r^, Taxes . . f 18,476.61!? Other Receipts 4,040,768 'j • «l Consolidated Fund. . . $22,617,381 SUMMARY OF KXPENDITURE. Charges for Debt and Su' sidies.. . . :JM, 942,641 Ordinary Expenditure 6,941, .'J77 Charges on Revenue 5,.'561,16'2 Total KKpendilure S24.455.386 Now, Sir, I hav amed a tabular state- ment that shows i'l the most concise form possiUe wh»t each Province in 1878-9 ought to ' •' .e coiilnbuted to the Con- solidated l?und, ar I wli ;, ought to have been their respeetivo contributions to the Public Exper'iitnre. T will read it. It is as follo\, s : — Total $4,040,768 CoN80Lii)ATEr> Rkvknur ani> Expenditctre of Do jai^TOK.— Total Consolidated Rrrenue, 1878-9, |I22.517,:(S2 ; Total Poiiulation, 4,400,000; Average Revenue, pn- cupita, )i.jA2. Tntal Expenditurn, 1878-9, 824,455,381 56 ; Total ['opul»tion,4,400,(J00 ; Average Exienditure, per capita, liS5 56. Province. EMtiinated Poimlation. Apprcixi- nmto Aver- iigo Uovuiiue per Capita. Slmro of Ciiii»(jli- duted Revuniiu reipiired of taeh I'Mvinec as per I>opulation. Airproxi- inatc uvcr- ab'o i;xpu!iili- turo per Capita. I'rDpurtiiiimto tharc of ExiMiiulitiire re- quired of each Pro- vince, tw l)a.sed on I'opulatiuii. Ontario Quebec Nova Scotia 2,000,000 1,500,000 400.000 300,000 100,000 50,000 50,000 5.12 5.12 5.12 5.12 .5. 12 6.12 5.12 10,240,000 7,680,000 2,048,000 1,5.36,000 512,000 2.50,000 256,000 s 5.56 O.Sii 6.56 ■ 5.56 5.56 5.56 5.56 $ 11,120,000 8,310,000 2,224,000 New Brunswick Prince Edward Island. . Manitoba British Columbia 1,668,000 556,(<00 278,000 278,000 - 4,400,000 22,528,000 24,464,000 Sir, no statements can be submitted to this House that show more correctly the just charges for Revenue and Expenditure laid on each Province than the one that I have just read to this House. 1 ' •hows that the rate per capita for Revenue is $5.12, and that the rate per capita for Expenditure is $5.86,throughout the whole Dominion from sea to sea. The burden of taxation and expenditure thus rests equally upon tlie entire people. When, however, the per cajnta contribution to the Revenue and Expenditure of any Pro- vince is higher than in any one or all the other Provinces, that Province is unequally and unfairly taxed. I admit that it is impossible to impose taxes with mathematical exactness u|)on on: whole people. Some sections of our country and Bome classes of our people, under our system of taxation, will contribute moi"e to the Revenue than other sections and other classes, and our only course is so to impose taxesas to restapproximately evenly on all. British Columbia, however, is one of those sections of the Dominion that ccatiibutes far more per capita than any other Province : She contributed in 1878-9, an excess, over her just share to the Consolidated Fund, of ii>297,762; and au excess, over her legitimate contri bution to the Expenditure, of $275,762. The former and following statements prove this clearly and indisputably to this House : RBVENUE. — CONSOLIDATED FUND. Total sum required of British Colum- bia, to pay her share of Consolidated Fund, on basis of popuiatiou, 1878-9 $256,000 'A ■■}; 10 m companson of older and contribution of Total sum actually paid 1iy British Columbia, into Consolidatorl Fund, in Customs and Excise, 1878-9.... 553,762 Total sum actually paid into ('on- solidated Fund by British Columbia, in excess of sum required as her share on basis of population, 1878 9 297,762 BXPKNDIIURE. — CONSOi.IDATED FUND. Total sum required of British Colum- bia, to meet her share of expendi- ture, on basis of population, 1878-9. $278,000 Total sum sctually paid by British Columbia, in Customs and Excise, toward Dominion Expenditure 553,762 Total sum actually paid by British Columbia, in Customs and Excise, toward Dominion Expenditure, in excess of amount required, on basis of populatio», 1878-9 275,762 For a people numerically so small with the populations larger Provinces, the British Columbia, in excess of her just proportion, is enormous. The excess is larger than the whole con- tribution to the Customs Revenue by Manitoba, or the entire Customs and Excise contribution of Prince Edwai-d laland. Yet, Sir, not a murmur has been heard from our people. We have borne the enormous burden of Federal taxation as a manly, self-reliant peoi)le. We have only asked the Dominion to meet her just obligations to the Province; and yet up to the present, the greatest of the Dominion's obligations has not been met ; and an bon. gentlemen opposite proposes to re- pudiate that. The hon. member for West Durham spoke to-day as if his own Province, Ontario, paid nearly every- thing. He said she was willing to spend her money throughout the Dominion. The House ought to understand that we have ceased to be provincial, and that we meet here as representatives of the Dominion ; that we pay taxes as the citizens of Canada ; and no matter what the revenue may be — no matter what the expenditure — whether outside, for our agency in England, or for purposes inside, the ex- penditure is so much for British Colum- bia, Nora Scotia, and other Provinces as well as for Ontario. The hon. gentle- man keeps his books in single, double and tieble entry — he keeps his books for the Dominion, the Pi-orinces, the coun- ties, the townships, and so on, ad in- finitum, and took occasion to read from them to-day to show how much the other Provinces received from Ontario. Nothing could be more subversive of good feeling under our Federal form of Govern- ment than parading what each Province contributes to the Federal Exchequer mere- ly in laudation of Ontario, and thus raising invidious distinctions between the Pro- vinces of thisDominion. None but apari^h statesman could do such a thing. The statement often made in the press, that Ontario pays all the Revenue, is not cor rect. True, she has a large population, but the citizens of Quebec might as well •ay they pay all, because their number is also vei-y large. Later on I will deal with this issue. I wish now, Sir, to submit to the House a tabular statement showing the total approximate amount of Revenue paid by British- Col- umbia in eigl *; years into the Federal Treasury. I will read certain por- tions, and hand the table to the Ilansanl reporter for insertion. It is as follows : I Total Appro 1879, int( Customs.. Excljc... Total taxes., Post-oftlee — Ocean »eivice. Telegraph — Harboiir dues. Misvollaneous. Share lutcroal Preiniums .. Marino Viiuil.- Steamboat In- spection Fines, etc Cxsaal •• Militia Superannua- tion This state 1871, to Columbia Ciistoms of $3,39': $351,3U Revenue, contribut 30th Jul must ajip singular, memberf' our sini whites,— could ha $4,000,0 The peoi croakinj; (Mr. C;ai V^est D who cai geuoroai and to and pus higher a to til em seat in l»ranch Hiinimai by Br proport we have we meet dominion ; itizflPB of e revenue penditure igency in the ex- sh Colum- Provinces m. gentle- e, double books for the coun- uJ in- to read Much the Ontario, ve of good )f Goveru- Provinco qner mere- ms raising the Pro- ut a parish .. The press, that not cor »opulation, it as well number is T will ash now, a tabular proximp.te itish- Col- e Federal bain por- Hansard 3 follows : 11 Total Approximate Amount paid by British Oolumbia, betwuea July 2J, 1371, and June 30, 1879, into Consolidated Fund. 1871-2. 1872-3. 1873-4. 1874-5. ISTfr-e. 1876-7. 1877-3. ct.i. 425,.391 34 24,935 33 1878-0. Total for Eii;ht Years. Customs Excl.je a cts. 354,801 00 1,457 14 !j ets. 303,885 29 5,723 93 $ cts. 335,787 29 10,074 34 n cts. 414,331 85 11,181 01 9 cts. ' 9 cts 487,013 34 404,895 42 14,913 711 20,204 00 ? cts. 514,8.54 91 31,909 2(1 Total taxes.... 350,321 74 309,610 22 350,462 13 42&,tl2 80 501,9:^7 05 426,150 02 470,320 07 540,824 il .$3,892,162-80 CAsnAi. AND Territorial Rbvenue. Post-oflloe Ocean service. Telegraph .... Harbour dues. Misnollaneous. Share Interest Premiums... Uarino V'uiiil.. Steamboat In- speution Fines, etc Oisual . , Militia Superannua- tion 777 84 7,193 Qi , 7,970 34 16,740 90 24,732 72 14,310 48 12,513 29 1,113 42 6,310 OC ' 11 I 12 918 14,074 67 12,439 84 9,257 08 9,504 20 1-1,449 20 10,120 7;; 295 40 8,945 97 8,415 00 11,074 001 13,63182 2,340 »S 2,157 29'i . 13,431 03 3,152 2r 7,325 9ii 405 87 75,720 81 44,730 49 38,559 70 630 00 53,255 09 10,044 61 1,95 J 23 8,530 57 12,831 15 1,878 09 449 S.H •0170 2,440 60 470 V.6 670 00 43,800 74 10,791 a') 1,012 0i» 6,179 70 11,033 82 2,01ii25i 842 341 3,271 721 725 00 332 73 680 00 46,186 27 39 t5 11,26a 90 2,!:0o 00 620 94 758 94 91108 376 64 633 00 41,107 83 Total = 351,344 17 33,743.696 97 This statemont shows that from July 20, 1871, to SOth June, 1871), British Columbia paid to the Dominion, in Customs ami Excise, the large sum of $3,392,152.80. In addition slio paid $351,314 in Casua and Territorial Revenue, making a go..sa total of her contributions, from 20th Julv, 1871, to 30th June, 1879, of $3,7«,(39G.97. It must appoiir to hon. gentlemen somewhat gingnlar, if the statements of the lion, memberfor West Durliam be true, that if our small population is only 12,000 whites, — it rtuist appear singular how they could have uaid in those years, nearly $4,000,000 into the Dominion Treasury. The people \rlio contribute thus, without croaking liko the hon. member forL'Islet (Mr. Casgniin), and the hon. memb(5r for V'sst Durham (Mr. Blake) — the people who can show them.selves willing and generous enough to bear such a burden, and to put their shoulder to the wheel and push on the state'car, should receive a higher appreciation than has been extended to them since I have had the honour of a seat in this House. Before leaving this branch of my subject, Wir, I will give a nummary showing the total amount paid by British Columbia in excess of her proportionate share. It is as follows : British Columb'a during eight years, from July 20, 1371 to June 30, 1879, paid in Cubtoms and Excise into Conaolidated Fund ?3,392,152 80 Britiah Columbia contributed to Consolidated b'und from (^asual and Territorial Revenues, from July 20, 1871 to Juno 30, 1879 (uuder estimated) 351 ,344 17 §3,743,496 97 Proportionate share of Consoli- dated Fund required of British ColuniUia in eight years, Julv 20, 1871 to Juno 30, 1879, at §256,000 per annum, taking the tluancial year 1878-9 as the basis for the whole period .... 2,048,000 00 Total amount contributed by British Columbia from all sour- ces to Consolidated Fund in excess of her proportionate con- tribution, based on Returns of Itevetiue for 1878-9, in eight years, ending Juno 30, 1879.. $1,695,496 97 Let ino repr3at that the revenue wo have paid in excess of our legitimate share, ae- Buming that each citizen should pay at the same rate, approximately, thrjughout the Dominion, nearly ^d, 750,000, and, at the same time, we have not received that re- turn we ought to have received from the Dominion. !| 12 Sir albert J. SMITH : How much h»Te you received ? Mr. DeCOSMOS: It is quite imma- t«rial how much we hare received, so long we have paid our proper share of taxation. "We are not dealing in provincial politics ; we are not here as Provincials, but we are here as Federalists. The sooner the hon. member for Westmoreland takes that large view of the matter the sooner he will cease to look at his own sntiall Pro- rinoe solely, or to condemn a ris- ing Province, but twenty-two years old, that pays half as much revenue aa his does, into the Consolidated Fund. In respect to Dominion Expenditure made in or for British Columbia, allow me to mention that there are certain sums of tute and the Terms of Union. Ther« are other sums that are under th* direct control of this Parliament, and either pai-ty in the House can oppose them if it pleases; and any contribution, beyond the statutory provision of the House takes the responsibility for, and not British Columbia, per se. Now, Sir, I havo another statement .shewing the| amount British Columbia would have paid in Customs duties in 187'8-9 at the per\ capita paid by each of the other Provincps, I and also the amount she would lia>e paid at the average per capita rate of the Do- minion, and also the amount British Columbia paid in excess of each of the | other Provinces and Dominion at their respective ptr capita taxation rates. I will read it. It is as follows . money that are to be paid for British Columbia that are provided for by Sta- Statement showing the amount that British Colnmhia would have paid in Custojns Duties in 1878-79, at the rate per capita, paid by each of the other Provinces ; and, al^o, the amount she would have paid at the averasje por capita rate ot CustDms of the Dominion ; aiso tli« amount Britisri Columbia paid in exceaa of each of the other Provinces and the Dominion at their respective per capita Customs Tax Hate. Estimated Popu- attoD, Indians and Whites. 6o,oca. Balance that would net have buen paid by British Columbia if Cus- toms had been collected at the the respective rates of Taxation for other Provin- oee and the Do- Britbh Columbia Customs per capita, tSlO. 42. 521.443 Customs Customs Ontnrio, tjuoboc, per capita, per ciipita, «8. UO, *i.W7. minion . Total. 153,000 368.443 521,443 621,443 \ Customs, Nova Scotia, per capita, «3.05. 198,500 322,943 521,443 152,500 368,94.'5 521.443 Customs, New UrunsiWick per <«pit[i, sa.«7, 183,500 „ . I Customs, Customs, I J, ],^ [ Manitoba, ' ^' ' per capita, ? 457,000 337,943 521,443 64,443 land, per c a p i i^ a , $2.19. Cnstonis, a\<'ra.'i', per cupila. Dominion, ifS.'M. $ I $ 109,,500, 175,000 521 443 411,943 521,443 3-16,443 521,443 I have prepared these figures in order that this House may understand the true financial position of the Province of British Columbia, I have prepared it with the view that hereafter the croaking afalr-^t that Province, may cense. To illustrate my object, I will tell a story : I once heard ot a person who lived in South Carolina, on the edge of a swamp. The frogs were very numerous, and greatly annoyed this man, and pie vented him from sleeping at night. He tried every expedient he could think of to stop the frogs from croaking, and finally h* hit upon the plan of contructing a huge lantern, and whenever the frogs began to croak, he opened the door of the lantern, throwing a flood of light upon the denizens of the swauij), aud reducing them to silence at once. 1 sincerely hofie th* statements I have made here to-night, to throw light upon the finances of British Columbia, will havo the eflect of stopping this eternal croaking that we liave heard in this Parliament from time to lim", up to the present day. My hon. frinnda op- posite, and notably the hon. member for Durham, have been talking about "lil- way 6xi>en surveys, an^ have endea amount of for Pacific it shortly, three Gove arrangemei mence cor way in th been struci oonstructic has been I or stone 1 has beon 1 tie laid, m been done hera that expended that sum, House bai umbia^ent men as S: th« mone be charge undertak When th expenses the part the charg bia is wr the uttei ment. nevcrthe just pre has pai into the dollar e Bailvvaj ghow y( I draw ment, r Statkmi Colun Con^ci Exper to Jul Surplus 13 on. Thert under th« ment, and an oppog« ntiibution, sion of the tj foi-, and Now, Sir, hewing the d have paid at the per Provincpg, Iia>e puid of tlie Do- t British ach of tlie on at their 1 rates. I ns Bnties in , the amount fin ; .liso tli« he Ddininion nis, Customs, . 1. a\cT.i,'i:', per ta, pur ciijiitii, Doiiiiiiioii, 9. 1 .".'i.JO. 500, 175,000 1)4,3 tt.S 3-16,443 521,443 ting a huge ;a began to he lantern, upon the ucing them r liope th* ;o -night, to of British if stopping lave heard tinip, up to rinnds op- ueuiher for ibout '•lil- way ex^wnditure in British Columbia, surveys, and all that sort of thing. I have endeavoured to find out the total amount of expenditure in that Province for Pacific Railway surveys, and will give it shortly, Sir, though there have been three Governments in existence since the arrangement was entered into, to com- mence construction of the Pacific Rail- way in that Province, yet not a pick has been struck in the ground in the vvay of oonstruction, not a shovel full of earth has been lifted ; not a cai-t full of earth or stone has been carried ; not a culvert has beon built, not a bridge erected, not a tie laid, not a rail stretched, — nothing has heen done whatever; yet we have been told here that a large sum of money has been expended in sui'veys. Now, before I name that sum, I will call the attention of the House back to the time before British Col- umbi»]«ntered the Dominion. W e find such men as Sir George Cartier saying that all the money expended for survey^^ should be charged to the company who was to undertake the construction of the road. When the Allan Charter was granted, all expenses for surveys were to be borne by the parties holding the charter. Hence the charging of surveys to British Colum- bia is wrong in princii)le, and contrary to the utterances of Government in Parlia- ment. I will show this House, nevertheless, ou the basis I have just presented, that British Columbia has paid dollar for dollar, and more, into the Domiiion Treasury for every dollar expended in connection with the Railway surveys in that Province. I will show you also what we paid in excess. I draw attention to the followiiig state- ment, namely : Statement Bliowing surplus paid l>y IHritiah Oolumhii over \iov jjro rata contribution into Con^oliiluteil Funil, 'jompareil with Railway Kxjienditure in and for Britibh Columbia up to June 30, 187!). Surplus of Britis'i Columbia over pro rain contribution (see for- uuT statnment) §1 ,695,49G 97 Total Railway Expemiiture in and for British Cohnibia, di- rectly to T-nB30, 18:i» Balance in t so of Rail' ay Ex- penditure, held by D.miiuiou ( iovcrnment A largo proportion ol this Ruiiv.-ay surveys was mpiandered, fir.st, throu,:vij iucomjjetency, and in the next place this money was not all ex{)ended in British (^umbia. In making this atat»> ment I dd^ot expect you to believe that I acknowledge the right of British Columbia to pay anything more than her pro rata share to the Consolidated Fund, I want, however, to show you that after deducting this vast sum for Railway surveys, $1,499,956.17, from the surplus in our Treasury, there is $195,540 to the credit of British Columbia, showing that the railway surveys in Co- lumbia actually cost Canada, as a whole, nothing. Yet, we have the hon. member for West Durham, and all the brilliant lights around him, condemning the construction of the Railway in British Columbia, and attempting to repudiate the solemn obligation entered into between. Canada and British Columbia, and Lord Carnarvon. We had yesterday and to-day, a long and elaborate speech from the hon. member from West Durham, and in it the hon. gentleman made a statement that the total popula- tion of British Columbia was 13,000, I presume it has not been denied by any- body, and I am sure, for the purpose 1,499,95G 19 195,510 78 money for of not. I headed raent : his which the following is statement, I will find in my notes that I have a table, founded on this state- " Blake, the Statistician," of the substance : If only 12,000 people paid $521,443 into the Customs, the per capita rate would be f44.43 ; 12,000 paid $32,319 in Excise, the per capita would be ^2.70 ; total sum paid in Excise and Customs, f 553,7C2 ; hence total /)«rca/>i<a of the population at that rate, $47.13. Now, if Ontario with an estimated population of 2,000,000, paid an equal jo#r capita sum in Customs and Exciseintoth* Dominion Treasui-y, m British Columbia on the Blake basis, she would have paid ;>,94,260,000 ! I think if we had all that money in our Treasury, the genial face of the hon. the Minister of Finance would be lit up with unusual pleasure, and he would then have no difficulty in pushing on to completion all the great publie works this country has ever dreamed of. Now, Sir, we will consider the co-t of the Yale-Kamloops section of tlio Pacific Railway. I am not in jiossession of the BtatisticB that were used l)y the hon. th« Minister of Railways ycstord/'.j , and sub- sequently by the hon. the Minister of Public WoiKS, but, knowing the country u through which this section of the Railway will pass,! ( stimate,that whenjBinipleted, it will not cost this coifHry over $8,000,000, I have heard a gentleman, who is somewhat familiar with railways state it would not cost over $7,000,000. But I have added the $1,000,000 named as contingencies to that sum, and fix the total cost of Yale-Kamloops branch at $8,000,000. Sir, I wish to show to this House that if this Railway is constructed it will have been with Biitish Columbia money, and not with Dominion money, except so far as our contributions to the Contolif''ted Fund belong to the Do- minion. I wish to show that this Do- minion, outside of British Columbia, will not bo called u[)on to contribute to the construction of tlie Yale-Kamloops Section of the line, and that all we ask is the credit and management of the Dominion. I believe I can demonstrate this be- yond controversy. I will read my state- ment : Statement ahowio^ annual cost to Canada for Interest on Capital invested in completion of Yale-Kaoiloops section of Pacific Railway, Also, Statement showing bow Canada ia re- couped for Interest. Total Cost. Yale-Kamloops Lake Railwayil27 miles $8,000,000 "EXPBNDrrURE AND INTEREST, 1880 TO 1885. 1880-1 Expenditure, $1,000,000, at 4 percent., 4 years §160,000 1881-2 Expenditure, $1,600,000, at 4 per cent. , 3 years 180,000 1882-3 Expenditure, §1,500,000, at 4 per cent. , 2 ytars 120,000 1883-4 Expenditure, §2,000,000, at 4 per cent., 1 year 80,000 1884-5 Expenditure, !J2,000,000, at 4 per cent., to allow for interest on inter-yearly payments 80,000' Total Interest, June 30, 1885. . $620,000 Excess or Receipts and Saving to Con- solidated Fund. . Annual amount paid by Britibh Columbia in Customs m excess of tbe proportionate contribu- tions to the Consolidated Fund required of her on the batis of the annual average per capita Customs Tax of the Dominion, namely, |346,443 in five years, from 1880 to 1885, {See pre- vhus statements) $1,782,216 , British Cohimbia Loan Act, 1863, for £50,000 sterling, expires July, 1883, so there will be 10 per cent. Sinking Fund and Interest saved in 1883-4 and 18845 Vancouirer Loan Act, 1862, for £40,000 sterling, expires in April, 1882, so there will be saved 10 per cent, for Interest and Sinking Fund for 1882-3, 18S3-4 and 1884 5 50,000 60,000 .?1,842,215 Total Intersst 4 years on Expendi- ture of §8,000,060 620,000 Total Excess paid by British Col- umbia after paying the interest on $8,000,000, 4 years, on Yale- Kamloops Railway $1,222,215 I think, Sir, that I have now done what I promised, I have shown that when the Yale-Kamloops Branch shall have been completed, the total interest on the capi- tal — 8,000,000 — invested in its construc- tion and completion, namely, $620,000, will be repaid by British Columbia ; and that the total amount of receipts in excess of her pro rata contribution for Customs, to Consolidated Fund, and the Saving on Expiring Loans, will be, between 1880 and 1885, $1,842,215, leaving a balance, in excess of the interest, in the Dominion Treasury of $1,222,215. Now, Sii", it will be perceived that British Columbia has no desire to oppress any portion of the Dominion to construct the Pacific Railway from the Pacific to the Rocky Mountains. All she asks is for the Dominion to use her credit in raising the funds, and to exercise a wise and economical management in the construc- tion of the Yale-Kamloops Railway. The total annual interest on its cost of constructior, after completion, nil b« $320,000, and, if the road wore not to earn a sufiUcient surplus to meet the in- terest, the $1,222,215 referred to will pay the whole for five years longer, when the increased contributions to the Dominion Treasury will continue to pay it and the interest on the extension easterly and westwaiilly. I regret that the hon. member for West Durham is not here, for I wish to refer to his remarks about the vast sums of money Ontario and Quebec contributed to this enterprise. But, Sir, no statistician, no actuarj', could, by any possible means, discover the sum these two Province* respectively paid into the Dominion Treasury, except as given in the Returns. The hon. gentleman gave us figures show- ing that the total charge against British Columbia, fi Receipts, w years, Bu according subject, whi( that we are any sum, no ments my h( will assur that Britis I in excess Dominion of the Don statesman upon that I years old, sum of $8 years, will I year at 4 population suffer an ic Capital A that will 1 generation ; Columbia I thousand f < were presi tions, for tl him '>f the i uhu:ge. If public posit I pires to coi country, ins croaker, I dignified o( not lie to ci that i».,y w you are ni would hav( leader of th take a new miserable ti tion. Thei of the Opf bidding for Minister c I minded loa I though I ni joccasionallj Ijust merit Iwork and I [promote th I force italic Iheard so m lliow progre liilow we ar Igentleman |«f the Un 50,000 00,000 15 Columbia, from all sources in excess of Receipts, was some $844,000 in eiglit years. But I have shown that, according to my way of treating that subject, which, I think, is the correct one, that we are not indebted in that sum, nor any sum, no matter how many similar state- ments my hon. friend may make. But I will assume, for argument sake, that British Columbia has received, in excess of what she paid iiito the Dominion Treasury, on tiie jrro rata of the Dominion, $840,000. Now, any statesman woithy of the name, looking upon that vast Province, only twenty years old, would have said : This total sum of 1840,000 at the end of eight years, will amount to 033,600, a year at 4 per cent., and the present population of this Dominion will not suffer an iota ; for it will be passed to Cai)ital Account, and met by loans that will not be redeemed in this generation ; and that, in a few year.s, Columbia v/ill recoup the Dominion a thousand fold. I wish my hon. friend were present to hear tliese calcula- tions, for they would, possibly, convince him "f the eri'or of his way in making this chu.ge. If I were holding the important public position of my hon. friend, who as- pires to control the Government of this oountry, instead of playing the role of a croaker, I would select a more dignified occupation. My policy would not be to croak against the Grovernmeiit that i».,y went too fast, but I would say, you are not fast enough. That would have Veen a worthy policy for a leader of the Opposition, if he wished to take a new departure and cast away the- miserable traditions relating to this ques- tion. TJien we would have had the leader )f the Opposition vieing with, and out- bidding for popular favour, tlip energetic Minister of Railways and the large inindetl leader of this Government— -al- tliough I may differ with both of them occasionally, I am glad to concede their just merit — to show who could " best work and best degree," and who could best jtromote the interests of the country, and force it aliead. Then we would not have heard so muclia bout the United States ; how progressive tlieir people are, and how slow we are. Tiie argument of the hon. gentleman is simply this : that the people |«f the United States are a progressive people : that we rush there, but they do not lush here. And so we have this everlasting lowering cloud cast iipon the country. I \vill not say that the hon. mem- ber for West Durham , and the hon. gentle- men who surround him, are unpatriotic. I never use the word disloyal without attacli ing some meaning to it. I have generally found, with respect to those people who are always prating about their loyalty, tliat, if you scratch a little l^eneath the skin, you will find very little loyalty. Our material interests modify our sen- timental opinions, and when the two come into conflict, it is the opinions which give away. I do not like mere lip-loyalty, either from the Government side or the Opposition side. I like that loyalty which upholds order, maintaii ing the laws of our country inviolate, and if over we have to change our relationship with the Mother Country, we will do it in a constitutional way and not hyj)ocritica]ly. We have lieard a great deal about the great milch-cow of Ontario. I have not yet conipleted my enquiries into the siim of money exjjended in Ontario, during 1878-79. But as far as I have gone, I believe that in 1878-7!), Ontario received more from the Dominion Trea- sury than she paid in. The Customs, Ex- cise and Stamps — the only taxes imposed — collected in Ontario in 1878-79 was in round numbers, ?8, 460,000 ; and the ex- penditure for Salaries, Public Works, In- terest, etc., $8,560,000. Thus showing tliat. the great milch-cow of Ontario has received dollar for dollar, and more tha)i she contributed in taxes in that year. Ot what then has she to complain f For what I'eason shall her })ublic men attempt to dominate tliis Dominion, and insult- ingly tell smaller Provinces in the lan- guage of the late Goverment to Lord Carnarvon : " It is especially the duty of the smaller Provinces to defer somewhat to the opinions of the older and more populous Provinces frjm which the Rin'onue for building all such public works is derived?" The sooner the sy.ste- matic delusion of Ontario, that she is the great milch-cow, is blown to the winds, the better. The two millions and a-half of Canadians outside her boixler will ' not submit to be treated as though they were objects of charity, and that by a Province that never had a surplus dollar in her Treasury, till after she had united with i(i them. I now propose, Sir, to speak about the Carnarvon Award. We have a Repudiation Resolution placed be- fore this House, by the hon. mem- ber for West Durham. He proposes to repudiate a solemn obligation. He proposes to rei)ndiarte the Railway clause of the Terms of Union, and also the Carnarvon Award, made in 1874, and accepted with thanks by the Govern- ment led by the hon. member for Lamb- ton. The hon. member for West Durham appears on the Parliamentary stage this Session in two very distinct parts : one, as Award-preserver ; the other as Award- breaker. Hon. gentlemen, Sir, will recollect that the hon. member for Algoma moved for a Committee to enquire into all matters connected with the disputed boundary of Ontario. On that occasion the hon. member for West Durham, sup- j)orted by the hon. members for Bothwell, Elgin, and.Lambton, opposed the motion, denouncing it as an attempt to violate a solemn Convention, as the entering wedge to break the Ontario Boundaiy Award, and concluded his speech by im])ressing the House with the necessity ot main- taining the Bouudai'y Award intact, as it was " infinitely more important in its moral than in its material aspect," tliat faith should be kej)t with Ontario in that matter. So full of saintly fervour did thehon. gentleman ajtpear, so exerciseil seemed his righteous soul over the possi- bility of distni'bing the Ontario Boundary Award by granting a Committee of En- quiry, that he reminded me of Milton's invocation of the Muse : " Wlmt iti mo is dark lUumino ; what is low, raise and support, That to the height of this great argument I may assort eternal Providence, Aud justify the ways of God to men." The House, however, decreed that the motion should be carried; sc all the men- tal agony of the hon. member for West Durham, excited by a majority of this House who were so lost to the same high sense of pure international morality as that which swelled his patriotic bosom, SHenied wasted till the echoes of hus j)atlietic api>eal were caught up by the Glob'' aud spread far and wide throughout the land. The lion, gentleman, liowever, has now ai)[)eared in the jwirt of Award- liroakt'r. He Hct-ms to have foi'g(jtten the pure doctriuos of international mor- ality that he, with the assistance of hit hon. friends from Bothwell and Lambton, had applied to the Ontario Boundary Awai'd. When he applied those doctrines, no doubt the motion of the hon. member for Algoma mad* him feel sick : the pos- sibility of losing 120,000 square miles of territory awarded to Ontario, that Judgo Armour and Judge Ramsay, counsel em- ployed by the late Dominion Government, testified recently that Ontario was not entitled to, was indeed a heavy prospective blow to Ontarian supremacy. That may pai'tially account for the high moral stand taken by the hon. member for West Durham on the Ontario Boundary Award — an Award that, by his own admission, required a Statute to make it valid and binding. Now, however, when tha Gov- ernment proposes to keep faith with British Columbia, to abide by the Car- narvon Award, to vote $1,000,000 for Railway construction, the hon. member for West Durham comes forward to break, to repudiate the Carnarvon Award that the late Government accepted as a settle- ment, and told Lord Carnarvon that it was not contrary to any Resolution of Parliament or Statutory enactment, and consequently held to be valid. He quotes no high and pure principles of interna- tional morals and applies them to the Carnarvon Award to account for his change in opinion in a few weeks with respect to International Awards, or to justify his course ; but Ikt manifests, by the production of his Resolution to jiost- poiie Rtiilway construction, such a re- markable change in his code of inter-state morals as can only be explained by him- self, and then the public may decide whether his international morality is or is not " false and hollow." Tlio parts taken by the hon. gentleman, rc.sj)ecting the On- tario Boundary Award anil the Carnarvon Awai-d remind mo somewliat of another grent Reformer referred to in the couplet of Rabelais : " The Devil was sick, the Devil a saint would be ; " The ]1evil was well, the Devil a saint was he." Boloro I conclude this branch of my sub- ject, Sir, I desire to draw still further tin- attention of this House to the opinions entertained by hon. gentlemen on thi« side of the House, and outside of it, when the Terms of Union, in ld7l, wer« These guishe holding the na< for tw( liamen thatT for W hon. J. Sm for W this hi "W ajiking this II becom be plij 17 1. e of hii ambton, oundary octrines, member the pos- miles of at Judge unsel em- ernment, was not Irospective That may ral stand or West ry Award dmission, valid and th« Gov- 'aith with the Car- 0,000 for member d to break, ward that as a settle- on that it olution of imont, and He quotes •f interna- hem to the it for his 'eeks with irds, or to mifests, by on to post- such a re- in ter-state i by him- nay decide lityis or is »,irta taken .ng the On- Carnarvon of another ;he couplet vil a saint vil a saint )f my sub- t'urtlier the ) opinions n ou this ido of it, 1871, were under discussion in Parliament and be- fore tho country ; and, also, to the speeches made by the hon. membei-a for Both we'", West Durham and Lambton, this Session, respecting the Ontario Boun- dary Award, and to a comparison ot their utterances on that occasioa with the couree they are now pursuing in endeavouring to repudiate tho Carnarvon Award as well as the Railway clause ot the Terms of Union. I will Krst direct attention to the Railway clause of the Terms of Union. It is as follows : "The Government of the Dominion under- take to secure the commencement siniuN taneously, within two years from the date of Union, of 'the construction of a railway from the Pacific towards tlie Rocky Mountains, and from suck point as may be selected east of the Rocky Mountains towards the Pacific to coune t the seaboard of British Columbia with the ({ailway s stem of Canada, and further to aocure the completion of such Railway within ten years from the date of Union." The first interpretation of that document, I find, is given by Lord Lisgar, on February 1st, 1871, when he said : " The Terms of Union are in nature of a Treaty." I will give you the opinion of another Governor, Hon. Mr. Letellier, who in a apeecli in the Senate, on the British Columbia question, .said : " The Resolutions respecting the Union of all British America were first brought up in the Legislatire Council of Canada by the late Sir Etienno Taohe, and I cannot understand why there should bo any difficulty now in discussing a question of the same nature though of far less magnitude. Those Resolutions were a sort ot treaty between tho Provinces ; the Resolutions in {question will also be a 7«(M'-treaty between Canada and British Columbia." These are the opinions of two distin- guished public men ; and both unite in liolding that the Terms of Union were in the nature of a Treaty. But it remained for twQ other distinguished lights of Par- liament to explain the binding force of that Treaty : t ley were the hon. member for West Durliam (Mr. Blake) and tli« hon. member for Westmoreland (Sir A. J. Smith). I find that the hon. member for West Durham on that occasion used this language : " Wer« not hon. members justilied then in asking f-T further information before taking this ir'evDoablo step. If this measure should becomo lavr, tho fjith of the Dominion would be plif hted, and without the consant of British 2 Columbia could never break one jot or tittle (of) these cast-iron obligations." Now, notwithstanding the fact, that the hon. member for West Durham made this statement ou the floor of thia House, in 1871, that hon. gentleman produced a Resolution here . to-day, asking for the postponement of the construction of the Yale-Kamloops Section of |the Railway in the Province of Biitish Columbia. Ho stated, in 1871, that the Terma of Union could not be broken " without the consent of British Columbia; " and yet without her consent he attempts to break them, t» repudiate the Railway clause by refusing to sanction the vote asked by the Govern- ment. Tho next great authority on thi.s matter is the hon. member for West- moreland. That hon. gentleman is re- poi'ted to have said, in 1871 : " The faith of the country was pledged by the Resolution to complete the Railway within ten years no matter if the result should be ruin. Net verbal reservations could have effect ; th« written record alone could hold, and the words of the Resolution were clear, and if in two years the Railway Jwas not commenced British Columbia could appeal to the Imperial Government." Tho understanding of the hon. member for Westmoreland was then that this Treaty was a binding obligation on thia Dominion ; yet strange as it must now appear, the hon. member for Westmore- land was the gentleman who seconded to- day the Resolution of the hon. member for West Durham repudiating it. W« have in these extracts the opinions given, nine years ago, by the hon. membera for West Durham and Westmoreland as to the binding force of the Treaty of Union ; and we have the unexampled spectacle, to-day — after seven years continous viola- tion of the Terms of Union, including fir* years' administration of the Government they supported, and of which they had beenmembers — of theself-same hon. gentle- men shamelessly moving and seconding a resolution to continue to violate that solemn and binding obligation. I wish now to draw the attention of the Hoi'.s» to tho utterances of the hon. memV)er for Both well, on the question of th« Ontario Boundary Award raised by my hon. friend from Algoma, this Session, and apply the principles he has expressed to the course the lion, gentleman and other members of the Opposition are now pursuing in respect to the Carnaryon 18 Award. He saiJ, on page 64 of the Han- sard, this year : "I am opposed to the Committea for which the hon. gentleman a'ks in his motion. I think, Sir, that the Parliament of Canada, or at all events, the Government of Canada, are in honour and in goad faith bound by tlie Award of t'le Arbitr itora appointed to decide this question of boundary. Now, Sir, I maintain that, if tho hmguage used here is correct, as regards the Ontai-io Boundary Award, it is still more correct in regard to au obligation, in regard to the Terms of Union for wliich we have the sHnctiou of an Imjierial Statute, and the sanction ol tho rarliauient of this country ; and that if " the Governnient of Canada are in honour and good faith " bound by (lie Boundary Award, it is undoubtedly more closely bound by the Carnarvon Award which it had accepted. He further says, on page G6 of llaiuMid : "For this House to grant a Committee of Enquiry, for the purposo of attacking tlio Award of tlie Arbitrators in this mitter, instead of confirnrng it, would l;o acting just as our 8*ntht'rii nei^hboura would have done, had they refused to abide by the Halifiix Award. It would be just as flagrant a breach of good faith as if Great Britain h^d rofnued to pay the money awarded by the '(Jeiieva Arbitration. The Government of Canada is continuous. Its obligations are not ended by a eh mge of Min- istry, au'i Ministers are solemnly bound by any action of a previous Gover;m;ent. " Would it be proper fi)r Mr. Hsyes, at Wash- ington, to ignore the Halifax Commission as an ob1igati(m undertaken by his pre.lece88)r, Mr. Grant? Would that be a ri>{bt and proper mode of proceeding ? And yet that might as well be done as to repudiate the Award of the«e Arbitrators. " The gentlemen composing the Board of Arbitrators liad a fall opportunity of considering the case, and they gave it their fullest con- sideration." Allow me to tell 1i6n. gentlemen opposite, that we have, in these utterances of the hon. member for Bothwell, a statement of principles to the effect, when applied, that we would be guilty of a breach of International Law by not carrying out the Treaty of 1871 with Briti li Columbia, and the Carnarvon Award made and accepted by the Govamment of which he was a member. Notwithstanding this, w« have had an ex-Miuister of Ju.stice placing before this House a iScpudiation Resolution. The hon. member for Both- well corn[)liiined that tho appointment of the Boundary Committea was to broHk ^;he AwanI, when no such object was ever expressed, so far as I know But the vote before tlie Ifouse, that is intended to fulfil the conditions of the Carnarvon Award, in some small measure, he and his hon. friends opposite unitedly propose to reject. They want the Ontario Boundary Award to be recog- nised, wliilst they repudiate the Carnai*- non Award. The hon. gentleman says it would have been " a flagrant breach of faith " if Ureut Britain had not paid the Geneva Award. Then why is it not " a flagrant breach of faith" not to pay the Carnarvon Award 1 Tho principle is tlie same. He says : " Tl^e Ministers are soleumly bound by any action of a l)reviou8 Govei'nment." Then why did the Government of which he was a member not carry out the Hail way clause of the Terms of Union, if tlie obligations of a Goxernment are not ended by a change of Ministry 1 If the obligations of a previous Government are not ended by a change of Ministry, why is the hon. member for West Durham, and the entire Opposition, trying to prevent the present Government from carrying out the Carnarvon Award that was made and accepted by the Government of their predecessors, of which the lion, member from Bothwell was a leading member f He says, that the Ontario Boundary Arbiti-atore gave the question their fullest consideration. So did the late Governii ent the Carnarvon Awai*d. Yet the hon. gentleman and his friends propose to reject that Award, if possible. Mr. Mills adds : "To Fauction the appointment of this Com- mittee to seek to set aside the Award of these gentlemen, would be as greit a wrong, as gross a breach of faith, as if one Administra- tion of this country were to repudi ite tha public debt incurred by another Administra- tion, or do anything which, in the publio estimation, it is derogatory for a Government to do. "I think this House ous;ht not to grant this Committee ; such a Committee cannot, without dishonour and bad faith, be ap- pointed." Now, what has been the wliole course of the hon. member for West Durham ? It i haa been, ever since 1873, an attempt to relax and repudiate the original Terms of U nion. It is now to defeat, if possible, the attempt of this Government to fulfil the conditions of the Carnarvon Award. If it would be " a great ^rong," " a gross breach of faith," to repudiate the act of a 19 former Government, what is the motion of the hon. member for West Durham to stop Kailway ''conatrucliou in British Columbia, but an attempt to commit " a great wrong" and " a gross breach of faith." If the aiipointmoni of a Com- mittee to enquire into a matber of which nearJy the entire House ia ignorant, cannot be made " without dishonour and bad faith," how can Ijon. gentlemen opposite free tiiemselves fiom the charge of " dijhonour and bad faith," wlien they attempt to re])udiate the conditions of the Carnarvon Award, of which no lion, meuibor is ignorant ! Mr. Mills goes beyond this, and sa_, j : " If the Government think that the Arbi- trators were briljod, or that fchi-y were wholly innoniDeteiit men, t:ieii they ouglit to aisunie the res lousibility ('f opening up the question, only with the coiisoiit of the other p^irty, — and by obt.iinin;^ information through the proper channels, instead of npimintini; a (Jouuu:tte>>, — .1 conr e whit-li eau leail to nothing but delay in th<j conlii'niatiou of the AwarJ." I am willing to concoile the right of ask- ing for a relaxation of the Terms of Union. Tht! mission of Mr. K.lgn.r for that purpose, hort-ever,^s is well known, faileil. Wlmt attempt has ln'oii made to get the cou.sfmn t^f British Columbia to the Ilt'solution of the hon. •member for West Durham] /None. But hon. gentle- men oppo-iite do not |)ropose to ask any relaxation. They will not even recog- nise tlie relaxation of the Carnarvon Award, that extended the time from 1881 to 1890 to complete the Railway from the Pacific Ocean to Lake Superior only. They propose to repudiate all i-ailway obligations to British Columltia. That Province surrendered certain rights and revenues to the custody of the Douiinion, and has fultilled all her obligations, and expects the Dominion to perform her obligations. But hon. gentlemen opposite want to hold the surren- dered rights and revenues, ami re- pudiate the obligations they incurred, it is ipiite natural then for us to state that we have not, as a Province, violated our obligations ; and it is also quite natural that we should exact from the Uovernmcnt a fulfilment of theirs ; and if they are unpivpared to fulfil their oldigations, let them aid the Province in separating from the Union, the whole of British Jforth America is 1 not yet consoHdni •]. There is an out- , lying Provimc, Ntnvfoundhind, that ia not witlun tu') Confederation : and how can wo expect the Province of Newfoundland to entijr a Doudnion that has violated its solemn pledges over and over again. The bad faitJi of hon. gentkiiu'n oi)posito tends to destroy all hope of ilio com- plete consolidation of British America. I will next take the utterances respect- ing the Boundary Award of the hon. gen- I tle.nan who proposed the repudiation I Resolution to-day. On page 7'2 of Jlmi- I sard, this year, t'lat hou. gentleman stated "Averyg.eat r-sponsibility is assumed by I that coiuitry, wha; ver its rank iu the scale of raii'ins, wl.ich (icjiarca it will not be bound by ' the ri suits of a s.lcmn convention. I "1 esteem this iu the same light as a convon- I tion b"t leeu t,\\o iliilonnt countries; for, .13 ; hetwi) 11 • 'aiiad 1 and Ontario, they are separate : aud distinct in tais matter." I ' Now, Sij', it' a very grave responsibility is a^isumed by a country that declares that it will not be bound by a solemn Con- vnntion, is there not a veiy grave re- sponsibility assumed by the hon. member tor Weiit Durham, wluui he declai-es by his Resolution that Kailway construction I in British Columbia ought to be post- poned ? And if he could carry his Reso- lution, would he not force Canada to ais- sume a very grave responsibility by de- claring that she woixld not carry out the Carnarvon Award? He says that the re- lationship of Canada to Ontario is that of two diflerent countries, so far as respects the Boundary Award. If that bo true, i Canada and Columbia are two different countries so far as the Terms of Union and the Carnarvon Award are conce rned. And yet the hon. gentleman shows no hesitation in attempting to break that solemn Convention. If his position he correct resjHJcting t!ie Boundary Award, tlie stand that he has taken to-day in moving a Repudiation Resolution is totally indefensible, as it is calculated to cover this country with the infamy of at- tempting to break faith with one of the Provinces of this Conlederation. Referring to the power of an Act of Pai'- liament, to decide qxiestions of boundary, Mr. Blake continued : " But while that''power exists, the question of international morality subsists also, aod iviji 20 what we hare to consider is whether a caae in h«ro made out clearly Buftioicnt to justify tlm procedure suggested to-day, based as that pro- cedure is on a disregard of the Award as a cogent nstrumtnt. "Mow the first proposition I shall advance is that, as the hon. mumber for Bothwell (Mr. Mills) well observed, there is a continuity in government. " I say this question rests, with respect to the (•overDmeiit of the day, just in the same positi' n OS if the Government of the day had been responsible for the original commission. No hon. centleman opposite can say that the present Goveriiment, or any of its supporters, are any the less bound than was the Govern- ment of my hon. friend from Lambton in refer- ence to the issue of this commist>ion and its consequences." Those are the xuteranccs of tho hon. gentleman who declared to-day, that he would not be bound by those solemn obligations to BritiHh Columbia. It ■will be observed that tlie hon. member for West Durham, in opposinc; the motion of the hon. gentleman for Algoma for a Committee to enquire into all matters re- ■pecting the Boundary of Ontario, .said that there was "a question of interna- tional morality " to be considered. But, 8ir, he has not questioned "international morality " in connection with his pro.sent motion. He assumes that the mer\! granting a Committee to enquire into matters con nected with the Ontario Boundary raises "a question of international morality"; but he boldly undertakes to break faith with British Columbia, without ever touching on the moral aspect of the ques- tion. I take it, Sir, to be the duty vi •very hon. gentleman in this House to do all in his power to cause the Provinces to love each other, assist each other, and work together for the common good of our common countrj'. But tho course of the hon. gentleman is the very reverse. It is to induce the Provincps to hate eacli other. He says that the present Govern- ment is no less bound than the Govern- ment of the lion. member for Jjambton for the issue of the Boundary Commission and its consequences. On the same principle the present Government is bound by tho Carnarvon Award and its consequences ; and yet tlie hon. gentleman repudiates the latter, and upholds the former. It is lamentable to see a public man occupying the position of the bon. gentleman re- duced to so pitiable a condition. He also stated : "My second proposition is that if it be proposed not to ratify the Award, but to open tlie question again, and throw that instrument aside, such a ])roposal as that should be made upon the responsibility of tho Government of the day, and with all the gravity which such a course of action demands." Now, Sir, if lliis doctrine be true, the hon. gentleman, instead of moving a Re- pudiation Resolution, ought to have urged the Government to re-open the question of the construction of the Pacific Railway with Biitish Columbia, and ought to have moved, "with all the gravity such a course of action demands." But the course ado()ted by the hon. gen- tleman is not statesmanlike ; it is simply that of a man who has no regard for the undoubted rights of others. Why did not the hon. gentleman, when he was in the Government, endeavour to secure such modifications of the Carnarvon Award as would have satisfied both I)arties to the Award '{ All he did was to ofi'er ,$750,000 as compensation for all future delays that n)ight take place re- specting the construction of the Railway in British Columbia. Tiiat was very properly rejected ; and there tl>e hon. gentleman left the subject, till lie came torward to repudiate entirely the work of construction. It anv one, after this, can see anything statesmanlike, any ca])acity, in the hon. gentleman to keep the Provinces of this Confederacy together, they have better discernment than I possess. The hon. gentleman stated further : " What a novel and entirely indefensible prnposal it is, that a private member should take charge of this great ujaterial and moral qnestion — moral as to whether a national award should be sut abide, and material as to the cxtousivtt territory involved. " It is the bounden duty of the Government itself, if disposed, to take steps, which in its opinion, the interest of the country requires — stej'8 tending to the dihturbance and upsetting of this Award, — so to state, frankly,- itself, to propose thoso steps on its ow?i responsibility, and justify its course." The hon. member for West Durham here holds that it is a novel and entirely indefensible jiroposal that a private member should take charge of the great material and 'uoral que.stion of the Boun- dary Award ; and yet. Sir, he, as a private member, comes forward to nullify the Carnarvon Award. To call such a course inconsistency would be to apply a mild term, for what. in plain Saxon must bo designated as -a deliberate attempt to [it to open strument be made -nment of hioh luch true, tlif a lie- to havo pen the le Pacific bia, and all tb« emandR." ion. gen- is simply for tlie Wliy did he was in .0 secure arnarvon tied Lotit did was on for all place re- I Ifailway WHS very the hon. ho Ciune be woi'k of his, can see ai)acity, in Provinces her, they I possess, her : inclefcusible should '.ake )ra] (jnestion ward ahuuld be cxtousivtt fJovernment ehich in ita y requires — d upsetting iikly,- itself, sponaibility, t Durham id entirely a private the great the Boun- s a privat* lullify the ch a courae ply a mild 1 must ho ttempt to 21 commit a breach of public faith, [Mr. DeCosmos here by airangc- ment n-oved the adjournment of the debate.] On its resunij>tion on Monday, Mr. DoCosnios gave a brief summary of the previous part of his siKsech, and concluded by saying : J. do not believe it is desirable to do so at any length, as I shall take occasion, I hope, in another way to bring all the facts and conclusions that I tlien presented to this House, before the mem- bers of this Parliament and the country. We come, ngain, sir, to the lion, member for West Durham (Mr. Blake), he who sets himself up more than anybody in this House, or in this Dominion, as the pink of morality, as the pink of all that is great, as an example to the people of this country. That hon. gentleman said on the occasion of the Ontario Boun- dary debate : — " But my main proposition is, that the respon- sibility pruiierly devolves on the Uovernuieut of dealing with the question which, as a resi- dent of and member from the Province of On- tario, I do not . hesitate to declare I regard as infinitely more imixtrtant in its moral tlian in its material atpect." Sir, the man who could regard the Ontario Boundary Award as infinitely more impor- tant in its moral than in its material asi)ects, comes to this House and repudi- ates not only the Carnarvon Award but the H atute. The hon. the leader of the Oppo- sition stated, through Lord DufTerin, that the Award was accepted — that it was not contrary to any Resolution of Parliament or any Statute, and that the Terms of the Awartl would be fulfilled ; but wo find his hon. olleague prepared to vote for the violatii n of that solemn compact. On the tame ( 'casion to which I have referred, the lion, member for Lambtcn 8a:d : " I have no ol"«iction whatever to the hon. gentleman u^ing ii.s power in this House to set aside the legislation of the last Government if he thinks it wrong ; "^ut I fear if he were living in another country, )ie would find some diffi- culty in setting aside solemn treaties that have been entered upon : such as the Treaty for the settlement of the8an -luan question. " If the decision on that occasion of the Em- peror ^^ illiam were to be set aside, it would be M justiRable frem an intern./tioiial point of view as the setting aside of th« Award in the prevent CMC. " The hon. gentleman would have no more right to set aside the Award than he would have to set aside the Treaty of Washington. " These are the hon. gentleman's views who proposes to vote now with the hon. member for West Durham. He said in 1874 that the Carnarvon Award should not bo broken, but he now wislie.s to repudiate the obligations made by himself with British Columbia. As it is not my in- tention to occupy the House long, I will quote from an authority which the other side of the Houki regard with reverence. On February 20th the GloOe said this : " It is bad enough for a Premier, who has not the moral courage to oppose something he does not want carriea out, to shirk his responsibihty and take shelter behind a Parliamentary Com- mittee, but it is infinitely worse for hiiu to be the means of making one of the parties to a solemn arbitration break taith with the other after an Award has been made. It is vain to say that the Dominion Government is rot bound by the decision of the Arbitrators. If one Administra- tion is not under obligation to carry out the engagements of ita preJeccssor, what is the good faith of the country worth ? As Mr. Blako put it in liis Epeech, the moral consider- ations are in this instance far m-ire important than the material intereata at stake, though these are so considerable that we venture to predict a long and obstinate struggle before Ontario surrenders ber present vantage ground." Here we have the Globe and the three great lights of the Opposition, the hon. membera for West Durham, Both well and Lambton, denouncing anything like break- ing up of the Boimdary Award and yet each of them is now prepared to vote against the Government of Canada attempt- ing to keep faith with the Province of Briti.sh Columbia, in the fulfilment of the Carnarvon Award. I have another ex- tract to read, which I hope hon. gentlemen opposite will li.steu to. This is also from the Globe, of February 23rd : " What is thought of a private niiin who re- fuses to accept the award of impartial arbitra- tors on his case ? What was thought by the whole world of the United States journals that invited their Government to disregard the de- cision of the Halifax Commission ? The mere objections of Secretary Evarts were held by the nations to liave disgraced our neighbours in some degree. What if their Government had refused to pay the $5,500,000, and had consti- tuted a Committee of Congress to take the evi- dence over again and decide what should be done ? What if the Cabinet of Mr. Hayes had refused to ratify the Award beoause the Halifax Commission had been determined on by their predecessors in office ! Bat it may be said that an arbitration between independent nations is quite different from one between a federation and one of its parts, in as much m war might be the result of bad faith in the former UU'rAVA 22 oMe. We hold that » diaregard of obligation ii rendered more dingraceful liy the plea that it can be indulged in with »afuty. The stability of the Uinfederatien depends on the general confidence of the Provinces in the central Government, and hereafter it will be impossible to respect the Admiiiiatration at Ottawa while conducted by the leaders of the Tory party." If the Globe's assertions be correct, that "a disregard of obligation is rendered more disgi-aceful by the plea that it can be indulged in with safety," then we must assume that the proposal of the hon. member for West Durham and his friends, to disregard the Car- narvon Award, is " disgraceful " indeed. I now come to the denunciations of a number of the members for Ontai'io in that journal, of which the following is a specimen : — "The namcB of the Ontario members who voted for the national dishonour and feared to stand up for the just Award to their Province, are worthy of record. Let the electors of Ontario note the following list of men, who have at once been traitors to Canada and to their own constituents : J. B. ROBINSON. R, HAY. 8. PLATT. JOHN MCRORT. 8. J. I.AW80N. WH. FITZ3IMM0NS. ALEX. SHAW. THOMAS WHITK. JOHN R0CHE.STEB. DARBY BBRGIN. J. 8. ROSS. A.|r. H. WILLIAMS. THOMAS ARKELL. J. A. KIRKPATHICK. D. MACMILLAN. J, B. FLUMB. .108. KEELER. 3. R. HE8S0N. O. BILLIARD. F. ROUTHIER. PETER WHITE. W. C. LITTLE. A. HCQUADE. II. KKANZ. O. A. DREW. SIR JOHN A, JOHN MCLENNAN. GEO. JACKSON. T. S. SPROULE. WM. MCUOUOALL. F. B. KILVERT. THOS. ROBEnrSON. JOHN WHITE. MACKENZIE BOWKLL. T. FARROW. R. STEPHENSON. J. O HAGOART. C. F. FERGUSON. ED. HOOPER. J. C. BYKERT, T. COUGHLIN. W. WALLACE. J. M. CURRIER. J. TASSfi. J. BURNHAM. J. S. MCQUAIG. DALTON M'CAHTHY. O. FULTON. HECTOR CAMERON, 8. MEK>'£H. A. BOULTBEE. MACDONALD. This is what we find the hon. gentle- men opposite to have said and done through tneir organ the Globe. The very reverse they propose to do with re- spect to British Columbia, the only Pro- vince in the Dominion which has paid a larger sum intc the Treasury than of right she should have paid. If Ontario mem- bers voted for the " national dishonour " when they simply voted for a Committee to enquire into all maters connected with the Ontario lioundary, and if they were " traitors to ( Janada and their own con- stituents," will not hon. gentlemen oppo- site vote " for the national dishonour," and prove " tiuitors to Canada and their constituents," when thoy vote for the amendment of the hon. ineniber for West Durham to break the Carnarvon Award 1 But I will now read some passages from a writer on International Law, for the benefit of the member for West Durham, who presents hiniHflf here in the character of an internati' 1 law-breaker, whose moral inptincta o so readily touched when anything c cems Ontario, but who is deaf and insensible when Bri- tish Columbia is concerned, and when she asks for justice. I will read some pp^sngeb from Vattel, a standard authority on International Law, as Blackstone is on Common Law, and Adam Smith on Political Economy : " It is a nettled point in natural law, that he who has made a promise to any one has con- ferred upon him a real right to require the thing promised, — and, codsequently, that the breach of a perfect promise is a violation of an- other person's right, and as evidently an act of injustice as it would be to rob a man of his property. The tranquility, the happiness, the uecurity uf the human race, wholly depend on justice, — on the obligation of paying a regard to the rights of others. The respect which others pay to our rights of domain and prop- erty constitutes the security of our actual pos- sessions ; the faith of promises is our security for things that cannot be delivered or executed upon the spot. There would no longer be any security, no longer any commerce between man- kind, if they did not tiiink tbcmselvcs obliged to keep faith with each other, and to perform their promises. This obligatron is, then, as necessary as it is natural and indubitable, be- tween nations that live together in a state of nature, and acknowledge no superior upon earth, to maintain order and peace in their society. Nations, therefore, ana their conduc- tors, ought inviolably to observe their prom- ises and their treaties. This great truth, tiiouch too often neglected in practice, is generally acknowledged by all nations : the reproach of perfidy isesteemed by sovereigns amostatrocions affront ; yet he who does not observe a treaty is certainly 'pei-fidious, since he violates his faith. On the contrary, nothing adds so great a glory to a prince, and to the nation he gov- erns, as the reputation of an inviolabb fidelity in the performance of promises. By such hon- ourable conduct, 08 much and even more than by her valour, the Swiss nation has rendered herself respeotahle throughout Europe, and it deservedly courted by the greatest monarohs who entrust their personal safety to a body- euard of her citizens. Tho Parliament of Eog- land hu more than once thanked the king M for hit fidelity and zeal in succouring the allici of his orowc. This national magnanimity is the source of immortal glory ; it presents a Hrm basis on which nutions may build their conti- dence, and thus it becomes an unfailing source of power and splendour. "As the engagements of a Treaty imposed on the one hiinu a, ]Mirfect obligation, they produce on the other a perfect right. The oreach of a Treaty is therefore a violation of the perfect right uf the party with whom we have contracted ; and this is on act of injustice against him." ]t remains, then, for history to Rtnte, that the member for West Durham bargained with his colleagnt'H an<l the leader ot hiH Qovornment to violate the Treaty and compact with Brilish Columbia — the bar- gain between her, Canada and England, which V ly honourable Province and honouro.l.ie man would say was a binding obligation- and that he would only enter the Miuisti f on condition it should be broken ; and y 3t we have had, this Session, the statement of the hon. member for Bothwell (Mr. Mills), that no Treaty can be broken except with the consent of both parties to it. I will read this passage on the subject : " Who can doubt that Treaties are in the number of those things that are to be held sacred by nations ? by treaties the most im- portant affairs are determined ; by them the pretensions of sovereigns are regulated ; on them nations are to depend for the acknowledg- ment of their rights, and the security of their dearest interests Between bodies politic, — be- tween sovereigns who acknowledge no superior on earth, treaties are the only means of adjust- ing their various pretensions, — of establishing fixed ruh's of conduct, — of ascertaining what they are entitled to expect, and what they have to depend <iii. But treaties are no better than empty wonlH, if nations do not consider them as respectablo engagements, — as rules which are to he inviolably observed by sovereigns, and held sacred throughout the whole earth. " The faith of treaties, that firm and sincere resolution, that invariable constancy in fulfill- ing our engagements, — of which we make pro- fession in a treaty, is therefore to be held sacred and inviolable between the nations of the earth, whose safety and repose is secured : and, if mankind be not wilfully deficient in their duty to themselves, infamy must ever be the portion of him who violates his faith. " He who violates his trr-iitics, violates at the same time the law of nations : for, he dis- regards the faith of treaties,— that faith which the law of nations declares sacred ; and, so far as depends on him, he renders it vain and in- effectual. Doubly, guilty, he does an injury to to his ally, he does an injury to all nations, aai. inflicts a wound on the great looiety of mankind. " On the observance and execution of trea'.ies," said a respectable sov- ereign, *' depende .^.U the security which princes and states have with respect to each other : and no dependence could henceforth be placed in future conventiuns if the existing ones were not to be observed. " " As all nations are interested in maintaining the faith of treatio*, and causing it to be everywhere considered as sacred anciinviolable, so likowine they are justiliablo in forming a confedtjrucy for the purpose of rcprrissiug him who testifies a disregard for it —who openly sports with it— who violates and tramples it under foot. Nuch a man is a public enemy who saps the foundations of the i)eace and com- mon safety of nations. Bat we should be care- ful not to extend this maxim to the prejudice of that liberty and independence to which every nation has a claim. When a sovereign breaks his treaties, or refuses to fulfil them, this does not immediately imply that he con- siders them as empty names, and that he disre- gards the faitii of treaties ; he may have good reasons for thinking himself liberated from his engagements ; snd other sovereigns have not a right to judge him. It is ttio sovereign who violates his engagements on pretences that are evidently frivolous, or who does not even think it worth his while to allege any pretence what- ever, to give a colourable gLs« to his conduct, and cast a veil over his want of faith — it is such a sovereign who deserves to be treated as aa enemy to tbe human race." The hon. member for West Durham proposes delay, and every hon. member can perceive that his conclusions are at variance with his statements and pre- mises. But he is the man of subter- fuges and flimsy reasons, in order that the Treaty with Brilish Columbia may not bo carried out. Valtel, page 234, speaking of subterfuges says : " His Catholic Majesty, Ferdinand, having concluded a treaty with the Archduke, his son- in-law, tiiought he could evade it by privately protesting against the treaty : a puerile finesse ! which without giving any right to that prince, only exposed his weakness and duplicity." Now, what applies to Ferdinand will apjily to hon. gentlemen opposite. This resolution has only again exposed their weakness and their duplicity. I quote again from Vattel on Treaties, page 450, and 1 ask the House to observe its appli- Ciibility to the course of the lion, member for West Durham. As is well known, tiie hon. gentleman has ever been m favour of delays in conntction with the fulfilment of Canada's obligations to Briti.sh Columbia. Now, what does thii groat writer on International Law »ay about delays 1 He says : " Studied delays are e(^nivalent to an expreea denial, and diflfer from it only by the artifice with which he who practices them aeeks to palliate his Mant of faith : he adds fraud to 24 perfidity, and actually violates the{article which he should fulfil." Sir, I am astonished that hon. gentlemen on the other siile of the House can sup- port so perfidious a resolution as that of the hon. member for West Durham. I am astonished that the hon. gentleman himself should wish to cover his country with such infamy, as must cover every state that breaks its treaties. If war be the sum of villainies, the breaking of treaties raust be the sum of infamies. My hon. friend, the hon. the Minister of Public Works, stated the other night that the Union of the four Pro- vinces was based upon the con- struction of a Hailway connecting the Eastern with the Western Provinces. With- out the Intercolonial Railway there could have been and would have been no real Union. Now, supjiose that after that Union had been proclaimed, after the Fed- eral Government had been organised, and the several Provinces had begun to pay their money into the Federal Treasury, that the Dominion had refused to con- struct thatroadjwould not every man from those Eastern Provinces have denounced the Federal Government for its perfidy But, when such a course is actually proposed to be pursued towards British Columb-a, many hon. gentlemen seem not to understand that equal perfidy is involved in the proposition to break faith with British Columbia. Now, we will take the Carnarvon Award. The leader of the Opposition, while head of the late Gov- ernment, and Lord Dufferin, concurred in accepting the Award, and thinking Lord Carnarvon for what he liad done. And they added this : We accept this for a present settlement, as it is not at variance with any statute. We accept it because it is not at variance with any Resolution of Parliament. What duplicity on the part of 'on. gen- tlemen opposite, who deliberateiy, down to the present hour, are still prepared to implement that Award by supporting a proposition to ignore it. The hon. the Minister of Railways has brought undertho notice of hon. gentlemen opposite, that the lata Premier did not propose to build the Emory Bavona section of the Pacific Rail- way, although he put this counti'y to an expense of thousands of dollars in moving rails. What greater infamy can we conceive of if thia oharge be true 1 When knowingly and deliberately using the public money of Canada for a mere partisan purjjose, he wasted $32,000 to make the people of British Columbia believe that the Gov- ernment intended to build the road, whilst in fact they did not intend to do so. Sir CHARLES TUPPER : T made a mistake in the amount ; it was over $34,000. Mb. DeCOSMOS: I thank the hon. gen- tleman for his correction. I think it will also be found that the late Government, in order to provide themselves with a means of escape, did not pass any Older in Council calling for tenders I believe the call for tenders was put into the papers, and no Order in Council, authoriiiing the call, was ever passed. In 1871 the Govern- ment of Canada, wth a full sense of their obligations, made a Treaty with British Colun\bia. The obligations of that Treaty put a first lien upon this Dominion after the charges upon the piiblic debt and the ordi- naiy and current expenditure for govern- ment. Under that Treaty the Railway was to bo commenced simultaneoufelj^' on the Pacific coast and at som'e point east of the Rocky Mountains. Fifteen million dol- lars have already been expended by the late Government in the work of construction, and not a single dollar has been spent in British Columbia in the work of construction. Is it not right that the Parliament now, at the end of seven years, from the time fixed for its commence- ment, should till, in a small measure, the obligations assumed in 1S71 ? Again, about $15,000,000 has been expended on the onial system since 1873. We find the system of canals between Lake Huron and Montr-eal have cost over $15,(i00,000, and the interest that is being paid, at the mte of 5 per cent., amounts to $750,000 more per annum. If this Governnient had wiehbd to have kept faith with tlio people of British Columbia, it would not have entered so readily into the enlarge- ment of canals, because the obligations to British Columbia was a prior lien on this Dominion. Mr. MACKENZIE : No. Mr. DeCOSMOS : More than that ! We find that they have relieved the Pro- vinces of Ontario and Quebec of some »600,000 or «700.000 a year interest, or nearl> ^1 1,000,000 in capital. Making a total expenditure of principal and interest of about $60,000,000 in nine years, con- trary to the spirit and letter of the com- 26 pact with British Columbia. I take it that anyone to whom this matter may be loney of referred will see that the first duty of the [rjiose, he Dominion was to fulfil its obligation with )pople of British Columbia, but we hear notning of the Gov- that in the utterances of hon. gentlemen id, whilst opposite. I desii-e now to allude to the so. addresii of my lion, friend the hon. mem- 1 1 made a ber for Yale, when the reply to the |wa3 over Speech from the Throne was before the House. The hon. gentleman stated thjit I took ground in my speech on that occa- sion against the route of the railway selected by the government. The very contrary : I expressed myself as follows on this point : " I am glad that the gov- ernment has at last decided upon a route on the West Coast." He, also, stated that I represented the people as being dissatisfied with the route selected. Now, I made no such statement, — as will "be seen on reference to the Hansard. He questioned my remarks with relation to " the fertile district of Kamloops," re- ferred to in the Speech. Now with the object of placing myself right on that subject, and correcting the error into which the hon. member has fallen, I have prepared som'i etatistjcs on Kaiiiloops district and tho neighboring districts, which 1 will ask the House to allow me to place among other reports of my utter- ances on tluK cccaHi'"'n, Tliese statistics will show the extent approximately of Kamloops and contiguous districts, from which the section of railway, now under contract, will gee itu business. The total area in square miles and acreage in Yale Commons district, exclusive of Koote nay, ■ IS Acres. 2,112,000 1,5I8,0'0 768,000 2,88(),0()0 2,304,000 1.728,000 1,488,000 19,825 12,798,000 Containing in 1879 the following polling disti'icts, voters and favniers : — Square miles. Yale and Hoj e districts. .. 3,300 Lytton .. 2,200 Cache Creek . . 1,200 Kamloops . . 4,500 Nicola . . 3,600 Okanagan .. 2,700 Rock Creek . . 2,.325 t Voters. Farm's. Yale ami Hope polling district . . .. 67 13 Lytton district .. 51 23 Cache Creek .. 56 26 Kamloops .. 126 58 Nicola * 54 Okanagan Bock Creek .. 70 63 .. 15 2 452 239 In all the sub-districts, giving the 239 farmera 320 acres each, the total acreage of the farms v/ould be 66,480 acres ; while in the ten settlements in the Kam- loops district the 58 farmers at 320 acres each, the total acieage would be only 18,560 acres North of Yale district is Lilloet district (a sub-district of Cariboo v^ommons district), the total area of which is 18,000 square miles, or a total acreage of 1 1. 520,000 acres. The total acreage in ocr I'^ation is : 83 farmers, at 320 acres f ach, 26,000 acres, the total voters being i08. In 1874 tiie list of voters stood : Totivl Far- Stock- Voters, mcrs. raisers. Y.ile and Hope 54 12 Nil. Lytton 30 10 Nicola 43 40 Okanagan 58 9 " Kamloopa 87 36 6 Cache CreeK...; 37 17 Nil. The total lands taken up in 1878 in Kam- loops was 8,160 acres, in quantities from 36 to 640 acres. The following statement will show the increase ot farmers in the above districts during the period between 1874 and 1878 :— Hope and Yale, farmnrs I,yttoii, Jaclic Creek, '' Kamloops, " Okanagan, " Nicola, The following is a summary of the Yale and Lilloet districts : Yale, total square miles 19,825 Lilloet, " " 18,000 187t . 12 . 10 . 17 . 36 . 9 . 40 l.'iTS IiKTOiBe. 13 23 26 50 61 54 1 13 () U 52 14 Total 37,825 Yale, total acres 12,798,000 Lilloet, " " 11,520,000 Total acreage 24,318,000 Total voters, Yale 452 Lilloet 108 Total voters 550 Total farmers, Yale 2.39 Lilloet 8» Total farmers 322 I will not on this occasion enter upon an estimate of the amount of business that the railway may transact with these districts — as way traflic. I will say this, that with respect to the railway that is proj)osed to be built by the Government, that whilst 1 do not believe that the Fraser is the best route for our trans-continental railway, yet at the same time I am , wholly indisposed to be factious. Th« 26 Government have arrived at a decision, and I am prepared to support tlie Gov- ernment in their decision to build that ■ection of the road. I believe, however, that the Pine Pass route will yet prove to be the great through route. 1 believe tha'j after this section is built it will enable tiia whole of British Columbia to be opened up, by connecting the Pine Pass rouie through British Columbia with the Yale — Kamloop section, via Fort George, Quesnelle, Clin- ton and Cache Creek. To beuetit the Province, at Cache the railwiiy Creek, and go ought George on that would bti the up the entire interior Western to start to Fort means of opening of the Province of Columbia. My hon friend from Yale, also stated, on the occa- sion to which I have prv3viously alluded, tljat there were not twelve persons in my constituency wlio were opposed to the Frazer routi'. Allow mo to state, that that was an incorrect stateiuent. He also stated tlmt, in an elo(pient speech, I spoke in favour of that section. At that tit no •vre had no terms of Union with Canada. We were nob even within the ContVd.n" ation, ami tlie question of a I'ailway nvroy i tlio continent, was an unsettled one. Tl e question was put to our Legishitive Council, of which I was a metnber, and of wiiich my hon. friend was a memljor at tliat time. The statement was made that we might get a trans continental railwi>^ , if Canada accepted our terms. 1 siiid then, that if we were going to have a railway, it would be better to put in a positive provision, that it shall be constructed between Yale and Savona's Ferry. I believe that this route will be valuable to this country, and I believe that the ter- ritory south of Kamloops, which is nearly five timeas large as the Province of Prince Edward Island, and that in the districts to the north and south of Kamloops, some very line country, can be opened up. As far as Kanilooi>s is concerned, I do n jt believe very much traffic can Ije obtained. My hon. friend opposite, does not want any- thing to be built in the way of a railway 'ii British Columbia, until the settler has reached the Rocky Mountain Range. I think the hon. gentleman is labouring under a very great mistake indeed. Ho has to know that there is only one groat com- mercial mart on the Pacific coast, and that that great commercial mart is San Francisco ; that it has fonned com- mercial relations with every people, on the west coast of America, the east coast of Asia, the Indian Arcliiptilago, down through Australia and New Zealand. Now, I take it, if we wish as a Canadian people, if we wish to establish a foreign policy, if we wisli to find a market for our surplus products, wo ought to have rail- way communication with the shores of the Pacific, in order that we might dis- tribute our suri)lus goods among the mar- kets of the Pacific Ocean. Tho hon. mem- ber for West Durham wants delay. That is a great mistake ; for the sooner va are enabled to move our numufiictures aooss the continent, and enter into coinm«;rcial rivalry around the shores of tho Pacific Ocean with our neighbour to the south, the sooner we will be enabled to occupy a s'milar comnmnding conimoi'dal position to the provinces on tho Atlantic. Allow me to call t'lo attention of tho House to the trade of the p^rt of S\n Francisco. The total imports of niorcliandiso during 1879, in San Fiancisco, amounted to 8n-l, 12 1,417. Thr; tot.il exports, $3G,.'50t,328. I find t'lat t'no don.- ■stic (>xp(,rta from tin- Slato of <' ''- foriua amounted to 82'.I,0()0,0I)0. N , tlio total value of the inipoi'ts ol' ! ';uia ui in 1878-7!) was !?S !,!»(! 1,127 ; and total value of exports, $7l,-191,2.'>r). By comimrison, it will bo scon, that San Francisco, a city only tliiity years oh., imports and e.xports nearly half as much, o.xclusive of coin and bullion, as the Dominion of Canada. Now thnre is no good reason why this state of things should exist, if we are true to our-selves, and develop by railway the Great West. A few years ago, I employed an engineer to make a measurement of our teiritory from the llOcli meridian, west:, to tlie eastern boundary of British Columbia, and betwoon the 49th and 60t!i parallels of north latitude. The result showed that tii'ie are 257,OU'J scjuaro milos of territory ea.«<t of tho Provincial boundary that must find its market through a port in British Columbia. That added to the 330,000 square miles of British Columbia gives us a territory of 587,000 squaie miles, which must also find its chief markets on tln^ coa? o of tho Pacific. Tho United States, west of the 110th meridian and between the Canadian boundary and the Republic of Mexico, have 800,000 scjuare milos of territory, and we have just as good a country as they have. The agricultural products of Canada sei England ii twenty mi export: of of San Fr 788,772. I railway ru east of the ■short disti we will be to Englam cisco. We this railwa region east this throu; I'ailway wi up the cou further. facts from this subj import ail Province, tributed > in Custon as, at the been payi bated moi on Friclaj as much Columbia Quebecer forty No bians p) Brunswic bians pa Prince E British dated Fn • she was per capi showed from 18' in Cust But let I comparii rately, a the Don per capi ia tho a to pay, 1 we shoi: altogetli 3340,31 which we do Oanadii fi'ont a the b( populn 27 east coast iigo, clown Zealand. Ciinudian a foreign ket for our liave rail- shores of niiylit dis- ^ tlie niar- lion. nieni- llay. That [ler VG are res acjoss jomnicrcial ho Pncific .south, the occupy a il position ic. Allow House h) Friincisco. lise during amounted exports, tiKj doii - -! of <■ ' ' on. >;,,,. of Oanaua 127 ; and timt San Vf.irs old, f as much, II, as the ere is no of things oiirselves, reat West. 1 engineer r tei ritory Kt, to tlie Colurabia, 1 parallels t showed niiloH of lioundar^ lirough a at added f l^ritish f flST.OOO tind its c Pacitie. le 110th L'anudian Mexico, territory, )unlry as oducts of Canada sent from the Atlantic side to England in 1878-79 were worth about twenty millions of dollars. Now, the export;: of wheat alone, from the port of San Francisco, last year were $16,- 788,772. I maintain that if wo have a railway running from the cereal region east of the Rocky Mountains to within a short distance 6f the Pacific coast, that we will be just as able to ship our wheat to England as the people of Sar Fran- cisco. We trust also to find a way trafiic for this railway. By the settlement of that region east of our boundary, we will get this through traffic and by that means the railway will assist most materially to build up the country. I shall not go into detail further. I desire now to summarize a few facts from what I have already said uj)on this subject. We, British Columbia, import and export more tlian any other Province, per capita. We have con- tributed during the last year $521,443 in Customs alone to the Revenue, where- as, at the same rate per head as we have been paying Ontario, would have contri- buted more than $20,000,000. 1 contended on Friday night that 200 Ontarians paid as much as five Celumbians ; that five Cohimbians paid as much as loO Quebecers; five Columbians paid as much forty Nova Scotians ; that five Colum bians paid as much as thirty New Brunswickei-s ; bians paid 150 Prince Edward islanders. I showed that British Columbia paid into the Consoli- dated Fund last year $275,762 more than she was lawfully bound to pay at the per capita rate of the Dominion. I showed that during the eight years, from 1871 to 1879, she paid in a total, in Customs and Excise, of $3,392,152. But let us leave out of consideration the comparison with the Provinces sepa- rately, and come d iwn to the average for the Dominion. Our proportion of Customs per capita of the Dominivyii is $3.50 ; that is the amount per capita which we ought to pay, and, as our population is 50,000, we should by right contribute $175,000 altogether; but the fact is we paid $346,343 in addition to the $175,000 which we should not pay by right Yet we do not giumble. All we want is the Canadian Government to come to the front and carry out (iicir obligations in the best possible way. The 50,000 population is based u) on careful calcula- and that • five Colum- per cent, more than ten tions. During the six months preceding my arrival hei-e I gave a great deal of at- tention to the matter, and I came to the conclusion that, including our Indian pojjulation, our white population and the Chinese and every other nationality the number, our population, in the maxi- mum, is 50,000. Now, it has been stated that $1,449,956 has been expended on surveys in British Columbia, and as British Columbia las contrib'ited, man for man, the large amount which I have stated more j)er capita than all the rest of the Dominion, it will be seen thiit over and above all railway ex- [icnditure, tlie Government hold in hand a net balance contributed in the eight years by British Columbia, over the remainder of the Dominion, of §195,540. I am glad to see the lion, member for West Durham (Mr. Blake) in his seat ; because I want to make reference to his statement, at Walkerton, that wo had onlva population of 2,000, Mr. BLAKE : No, no, Mu. DeCOSMOS : The lion, gentleman stated that there were about as great a poi)ulation in British Columbia as in the audience he was then addressing at Wal- kerton, and that audience was about 2,000 in number. I have it here in the Globe. Mr. BLAKE : I neither swear by, nor at the Globe; but what I really stated, was that the population numbered as many free- holders as the number then present ; and I estimated the freeholders as one to five. Mr. DeCOSMOS : Oh ! freeholders. The hon, member for West Durham is well able to make that look better which looked so much worse. He stated that there were only 2,000 freeholders in British Columlaia. I find also that he gives 12,000 paying $553,362 in Excise and Customs in one year ; that would be about $47 per capita. Oh ! I wish I were such a statistician as the hon. member for West Durham. I told the House the other night that I would deal with the Vancouver section of the railway at some other time. I know it will b« built. I am only dealing with the Yale-Kamloops section ; the total cost of which I estimate at $8,000,000. I have shown that we pay $340,000 a year more in Customs than the average taxation of the Dominion, and, thereto e, we really shall pay all the expenses, in the shape of interest and binking fund for tht building of this railway. I Page 2, line 82, for '• Lake and Water " read " lake and canal " Page 6, line 29 (below table), for "in British Columbia" read "if British Columbia." ..ifl^^^ft. ^}' ^A^^^f, °^ ''Casual and Territorial Revenue," in column headed " 1874-5," >»• '"•-I" read "12,264.11;" for "5.12" read "2,976 12" for "9.18" rcorf "9,489.18." ^,»<o.i^, /or Pago 11, second column,/or "nearly $1,750,000" read "is nearly $1,760 000 " Page 12, second column, line 6, for " beyond the statutorv provision of "' read " beyond the statutory provision." Page 16, second column, 3rd line from bottom, >r " on that side of the House " read " in this House. Iritish eaded " for 000." read )use " li 3 r ^irtmmBf^imim^^miF