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Maps, plates, charts, etc., may be filmed at different reduction ratios. Those too large to be entirely included in one exposure are filmed beginning in the upper left hand corner, left to right and top to bottom, as many frames as required. The following diagrams illustrate the method: Les cartes, planches, tableaux, etc., peuvent dtre filmds d des taux de reduction diffdrents. Lorsque le document est trop grand pour Stre reproduit en un seul clichd, il est film6 d partir de Tangle sup6rieur gauche, de gauche d droite, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images ndcessaire. Les diagrammes suivants illustrent la mdthode. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 , -w EVIDENCE or Mr. Jas. W. ROBEETSON AGRICULTURAL km DAIRY COMMISSIONER BEFORE THE SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND COLONIZATION QOth and Qlst FEBRUARY, 1896 . PRINTED BY ORDER OF PARLIAMENT OTTAWA GOVERNMENT PRINTING BUREAU 1896 f TABLE OF CONTENTS. Paob. Resinirces of Canada for the production of food product.o 5 Profit between cost of products and selling prices S Law of supply and demand The British market for food proflucts 3 Transportation charges ... . !) Value of cold storage 10 British imports of footl jwoducts in 18!)J ... 12 Suggestions for improving the egg trade 12 The world's live stock, estimated numbers of 13 Great Britain's import of dairy i>roducts, liy cinintries 14 Colonial butter season — variation in prices Iti Preservation of butter by cold storage 17 British imports of beef in 1894 IS Shijjment of cattle from Australia 19 Chilled beef compared with live cattle 19 Chilled beef comjjared with frozen beef 20 Net return from cattle shipiwd alive 21 Estimated returns from shipments of chilled beef 23 Cattle and sheep exjwrts from Ontario and Quebec for each year 1 s.i i- 1 s:).") 25 Advantages of Government management to start the busines.s 25 Marketing difHculties— cattle and l)eef deteri(irateep 39 Foods consumed {ler head in Great Britain 40 Swine products imptjrted by Great Britain ; . . . 41 Cold storage for cheese 42 1* « farm to til f cleai riche poor of th othe their CAxKADA .l.V A FOOD i'liODUClSU COUNTRY. CoMMiTTKE Room tfi, fTorsR of Commons, Thursday, -JOth February, 1896. The Select Standing Committee on Agriculture and Colonization met at 10.30 o'clock a.ni., this day, Mi'. Sjiroule, Chairman, presiding. Mr. Jas. W, l^oitKUTSOX, Ajn-icultural and Dairy Connnis-sioner, was present by request, and on invitation iiddressed the Committee as follows : — Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen, — I h;ive hccn invited this morning to give some information on the exportation of perislmblo food products from Canada, that I might lead up to an explanation of the plan which is jiroposcd for adoption by the (Jovernmout to improve the methods of exporting — meats anil other foods. You will allow n e a few minutes to state how this country stands in its capacity and adaptation for the production of peri-^hable food jiroducts, in comparison with other countries that compett with us. It is admitted by (>V('rybody that the sure way to increase the wealth of a country and to promote its prosperity is for its people to realize on their natural resources, through intelligent skilful labour. The natural resources of Canada are mainly those which can be realized upon through agriculture. The resources of all countries niav be classitied as, first, those which are inexhaustible, such as soil, climate, and water supply. Fertility of the soil is different from the soil itself; the former is a resource which may be exhausted. Secondly there are exhaustible resouices which are not restoral)le, such as the coal fields, natural gas, and the supply of minerals which once exhausted cannot be restored. Again there are exhaustible resources which may be restored but which are liable to deterioration, such !is the supply of fish in our lakes and streams and the supply of water in our rivers, — for water power may be lessened by the denu Profits. Available Labour, ] quality J " j cost Markets. Prices. Cost of Prcxluets In soil Canada has no superior among all the countries where the people follow •farming for a living ; but fertility of soil is not always a source or assurance of wealth to the people who live on it. I shall use only one illustration to make my meaning clear with reference tr that. The people who dwell on the Delta of the Nile live on the richest soil I think, that lies anywhere under the sun ; and they are among the poorest of people who follow the tilling of land for their living. Even with the fertility of the land of Egypt the people stay poor, chiefly because they have not realized upon other available resources, mainly perhaps that of intelligent labour as applied to their calling. We in Canada have a climate which is admirably adapted for growing very 6 Mli. J AS. W. nO/lKHTSOX. large qu.intities of such plnnts as are suitable for iho cheapest production of cattlo ppti- ducts. I don't know any iatiii superior to Canada in that r(';;ar(i. • )tli(!r count r'ics can grow plants that we cannot produce with success ;it all, hut I don t know any that can produce under the influence of its climate and soil, jjlants that will yield larger quantities of cattle products per acre with a larger tnai'i.'in of profit to the people who pi-.xlui'c them Our water sujiply is fai-ly r('liai)le in nearly all parts of the 1 )oin'.iiitin. 'l licsc I'csour'ces enable us to gi-ow fmldci- plants economically, and with the added resource of available and cheap Imilding materials, they enable us to add to the gr-owing of the plants, the fcedirij; of dom(>stic animals with profit. I need cudy mention thai the pr-ovirices that lie east ward of Lake Hur'ori are per'hiips bi-tter off than the jiraii'ie piuvinces of the J)oniiruon. in jiossessing plenty of building materials easily available for' the shelter of cattle during the period of the year when they must be housed in some comfortable way. Then we have a r'esmirce in available lai)otrr, which is inrproving in quality ever'v year'. It needs nrirch fur'ther impr'ov(!ment. The hibour of the Canadian farmers has Ik-cu certainlv char'acteri/ed by diligeni'c and e\er'y kind of foi'c<>ful [nu'si-^tence under ditlii.'irl- ties ; but it has not been of that or'der until recently in most sections that enabled the people to tur-n out fine food pr-oducts. Tt was largely concerned with the pr'oduction of grain, fodder- and pr'iirritive pr'oducts, by means of labour which was notof a high quality in regal! to the exper'ience r'ecjuired to turnout fine food pioduiUs well arifi cheap. You will allow me to use one illustration in order to get the minds of the members of the (^ornmitte(^ in sympathy with my own in viewing this matter. I would not be u.sing a disparaging word about myself in saying that the available labour T have, is of a very poor (piMlity as ajiplied to the work of blacksirrithing. I would burn a great d(^al of coal, waste iron, and irrake clumsy shoes. I have no availab'e labour' of Irigh quality, for- that class of woi'k ; but (hat does not mean that I cannot do other thirrgs very well. The far'mer's in the past have had ability of high or'der for' the work they had to do ; but not of good (juality, or high order for suf ' wor-k as they have to do now and will have to do in tli(! future. The labour' ha.s been of such a natur-e that the cost has been compar'atively low in pr'oportion t > the pr'ice of the products, mainly because in the production of the things which we have been selling and exjiorting, we have ap{)lied a great deal of hf.rse power and have used labour'-saving machiner'y. Thus, we r'cduced the cost, so far as the labour element was concerned, that entered into the cost of our products. riioFiT lii twi;i;n co.st of PKonucTs axu selling puicr;.s. Now, I come to the point that beai's directly on the subject o':" my address to you this morning, — the expor't ition of fine fo'od pr-oducts from Canada. No matter how well the farmers may do their wor-k, and no matter how excellent the quality of products they may have for disposal, the pi'ofits after all will depend oia two things, the cost of those products to themselves, and the prices which they can obtain for' those products fr-om the mar-kets to which they are sent. I think the farmers of Canada are in the way of I'cducing the cost of their products as low as they can be brought. I think our far'mers are appl^-ing as nruch of labour-saving skill by the use of the best of methods to the making of what they have to sell, as any farnrers ar'e. I think, how- ever, there i-^ still a gr'eatloss of possible pi'ofit to the farmers of Canada, and also to the men who liandle the farmers' products, by the ob-ti-uction-s, obstacles, and difficulties that stand between the producer and consumer in the interchange of commodities, — that stand between the cost of the product to the farmer and the price paid by the ultimate consuming buyer, that unrea.5onably reduce the profits or wages of the pi'oducer, and at the same time urmecessarily incr-ease the price to the consumer. LAW OF SUPPLY AND DtCMAND. ali\ sel wei M( in acti Mor Ta con.' be m Tt may be said there is no use inviting the farmers to go on producing more butter or more chease, or more beef, or mor-e rrrulton, or more bacon, or more eggs, or more fruit, unless there is a market for those tilings, not merely at some price, but at a price 6X1 rii- an ail ics III CCS .Ic tl;c lilt, tlie of .ay. ai'. K'CIl icnl- llic ill of THE r.nrn.^H mahket roi; axjm.u. i-uodccts. f wliicli will pay tlic man wlio jiiuilii.o-^ tlicin, fairly ^*cll for iijs iaVKiur. If the piicc of tlit'sc proclucts can be rtvist-d, yuii can at (iiice incn'ii»<' tlic |iro(liictioii. Tliat is the law of sii|.i(ly ami (jcman 1 : not merely a ilcmand for a jiroduct at some price, hut a (Icmand at siirh a iclalively lii'.'ii piice as will leave the nian who [iroilucoH, satisfactory returns for his lahour' and his capital. Tlicn, the demand itself depends Upon two things. It depends, I think, laii,'cly upon exci-lience of (juality, and then on relativo cheapness or lowness of price, ll «!Veryliody in Ottawa coiilrl i,'et strictly fresh laid e^i;s during' the winter at '.'(J cents a do/.en tliey would use •h.il kind, instead of eating other <'j,'gs at 15 ur IG cents a ilozen ; and the dcinaad would he so gicatlv in- creased that there would lie no po.ssibility of overstocking the market at that price. Excellence of ([uality would make a larger consumption per head hy pre.sent cu;^totners.and lownesH of price would lead the coninion [>cople to eat what only the rich can nnu atl'ord. And therein lies, I think, a great deal for tlie Canailiaii farmers to examine ; whither they could not get the large class of consumeis of high priced foods in Kngland to pre- fer our fine food prcducts, and so get for a portion of our exports somewhat near the prices paid hy thi' wealthy classijs for- very dainty food. The pioduction will respond to relatively high prices ur profits, .fust so .soon as the jirofits increase, just s'l (juiekly is there a great ••nlarguient in tlu! pi'oduction, f.et me give asi illustr;ition. The Idgh class consumers of Ijeef in Great Britain pay rather m(jre than a shilling a pound for the he.st cuts, eight pence a pound for tlic second cuts, and four pence for the third class of cuts of their heef. They often pay higher prices thar. these, hut as fur as I can learn that is a moderate average for the very best cmaliiy of beef. That leaves an average ef|ual to 17 cents a pound, by the carcase, after allowing for the loss in weight in the retailing of the pieces. Tn tiguring out the actual cost of retailing beef and leaving a wide margin for prolit, f find a retailer could sell beef with an excellent revenue for iiiniself if he had clear a cent and a half per pound, after allowing for the loss in weight in cutting up. That is a protitable liusincss. I have allowed nearly a hundred per cent above the actual cost of wages and rent. As the business is done now, it costs a little less than two cents a pound of dressed beef in Gre.i t Mi'itain, to ]iay all the ex]ienses of shipping cattle alive from Monti'eal, slaughtering them on the other- side, refrigci-ating them there, and .sellii g them on commission. The actual cost during the j)ast year, reckoned on the net weight of beef fr-om aiumals shipped alive, was r.ither hfss than 2 cents a pound from Montreal outwards. Allow ing the ivtailer what I call a liber-al mar-gin for his services in this business, and count.ing the cost for- transpoi-tation, killing, etc., at what it actually cost last year, the total charges incurred in conveying the live cattle from Montr-eal and the beef from them to the consumer would he 3J cents a pound of beef. Taking the 3^ cents from 17 cents, which is the rneT-ai.'e pr-ice paid by the best class of consumers in Gi-eat Britain, leaves 1.'5^ cents per pound, which, it seems to me, might be available for the farmers of the pi-ovinces of Ontario and tiiuebec for the vei-y best quality of beef. JJy Mr. Cochrane : Q. That is on the dressed meat? — A. Per lb. on dressed beef by the carcase. I say available to the farmers, because the hides and the offal and the tallow should pay all the charges for freight from the farmers' places to Montreal. I am reckoning the business as it is now run, with expenses as charged on live cattle. By Mr. Wilson : Q. Do I understand you to say 3J cents is what the actual cost would be delivered in Great Britain from Montreal? — A. Yes, from Montreal to the consumers. By Air. Macdonald, (Assiniboia) : Q. That is the retailers' profit 1 — A. No ; one and a-half cents would meet the expenses of the retailer. I shall tell you how I reached these figures. I MR. JAS. W. RO/lERTSOy. By Mr, Wihon : Q. Just excuse nie a momont. Do T understand thin 2 cents piiya the frpi;,'ht arid all the costs to the Old Country, includini^ sliiu^^litcring ? — A. Yes. The 2 cents |ier lb. wa8 t^ot at in this way : I have co{)i<'s of some account sales of cattle actuiilly shipped last year from Montreal hy Hon. Senator Cochrane. T took the frei;,'lit cliiii\:,'es, the sellin;,' cli.irtje.s, the lairai^d charges, the killini,' charges, the refri^'fratinj^ chiujjfe^ and the commisHJon charges, and reckoning the auni of them on the dressed heef, the actual cost was rather less than 2 c nts per lb, I arrived at the lA centH per lb. expenses of the retailer by getting information as to how many m(>n were I'lMjuircd in ji sho}) to cut iij) so many animals. Then J made a liberal ailosvance for rent and lidmur, added nearly 100 per cent to that, Mnd cilled it what the retailor might be entitled to charge, after allowing for loss of weight in cutting up. From 6 to 7 per cent is a liberal allowance for the actual loss in weight wlien the carcases are bought wholesale and sold retail to customer.s. I liave not allowed any tiling for the e.xpenses from the farmers' places to Montreal, but on the other hand I have jiot reikoned in the 1 ,'5A cents a lb., anything of revenue from hide, tallow or ollal, although that would (|uite meet the actual expen.se of carriage of cattle from farms to Montreal. I tigmodon slijp- nientsof 280 cattle, and the hides, olfal and f.'it amounted in otu^ case to an aveiage of .'^1 1 .- 7<') per head, and in the other case to an average of i?l 1.81 per iiead at r.ivei'pool. I do not think these would fetch more than two thirds of that amount in Montreal at first. By Mr. Coc/irnufi : Q. That is the carcase?— A. That is tlic! hide, tallow and the ofTal,— SU.TG and $11.81 cents per carcase. That is to iliustiate the point J was making, that if the farmers of Canada came anywhere near getting l.'H cents per li>. dressed weight for beef in the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec, the production wcmM be enoi . 'isly increased. I am not saying they coidd get tiiat — that I am going to discu.ss in a moment — I am stating what th(! retail market jji'lces are, and the necessary expenses. If we could get the sum of the retail prices for (jur farmers less the actual necessary expenses and reasonable profits of the middlemen — carriers and merchants — the production of cattle would be enormously and speedily inerea-^cd. By Mr. IIn.yhp..i : Q. How did the prices compare with last year ? — A. The prices of c.ittle last year were not higlier than for the average of three or four 'ears. 1 have not figured that out accurately, because I do not happen to have the ';.;ui.'s lor 189'_' and 189.'1 By Mr. Cargill : Q. Supposing you got an animal that would net HOO lbs. dre.ssed meat at l.'ii cents per ill. at Montreal, it W(juld be equal to .$67.50 for the carcase. What would that anim.il be worth, on its feet before being slaugliti're(l 1 — A. Last year at the prices cattle were sold at, such an animal would not liave letchefl more than ai)out 843 to .*4o. That is at hist year's prices, but if the carcase could be sent through this route, with the obstructions removed, then it would sell live w(;ighi for just as much as it would fetch as dressed meat. THE BRITI.SH MARKKT FOR FOOD PROnrCTS. The English are good customers for food pr(jducts ; of all people who purchase food they are the best. They are the customers of the world, for the nations of the world that produce a surplus of food products. I have looked over the map and the returns of the British Board of Trade and I find nearly every civilized country is a competitor for a place in the British markets. Denmark, German}', France, the United .States, and all the rest of them are engaged in a most strenuous, and merciless though peaceful, com- petition for the best place in her markets. If you want to pursue that point further, there are Spain, Italy, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Finland, and nearly all other countries ton. on d| cent,! Grea TllK BRITISH ilARKKT ;-»« ASIMAL PHODUCTS. IIKI 'y tilt' lb. (\inf iliij)- sll.- l .lo 111 at J aii'l Hit if ht t'nl 1 ill a senses. •I'ssary s— the whose pfiopic aro civili/.i'd thiit send foods tu Kii;;liirid. I tiiid very f<'w cxri'ptions ; tho British take iMtlu'r* fruits, cereiil.s, moats or otluT uiiiiuiil products from tlicm. Bif Mr. (lillnior : Q. Is there (vny reason for that? A. Yes; Vjecause En},'larid has found a most \aluahlo resource iti the skilled lahour of her mochanii's, and matiufactui'ers, Q. There is no ohstniction in jiettini,' inio the Ihitish markets? — A. lMi;,'laini huys from whoever sends Jier the best quality of what she wants at the lowest price. There is one peculiarity, in this connection, tliat I may mention. The Uritish are ^'lejit stick- lers in the old country fur respectability in name, as to the foorl jiroducls tlitiy buy and eat. The I'ltif^lish purchaser will not buy eciually j^ood fo(»d from two countries at the sani name. The purchaser ovci' there is guidtid a gixjd deal by tho namits of things ; he has got into the habit of buying in that way. I once went into a shop over there and found the best Canadian cheese selling at 0(1. per \\>., while the best Scotch chedd ir was selling at 10 1. per lb. at the same coun- ter ; and yet the (Janadian cheese was sujierioi in (juality, tlavour, afipear.mce and nour- ishing properties. That wa.s l\ years ago, when the name (jf (janadian cheese was not as goixl as it is now. You can now get Canadian chee.se offered uiuler its own name and there is no discounting it on that account. Hut in other things it is not so. as for in- staiuM', in beef and meat products. I :i' meit which sells best in the retail shojis is labelled " best Scotch." I do not kno'. iiat it is raised and fed on Scotch farms ; possi- bly a good deal oi it is brought up ar.d feared as far west as Calgary, in our own North west country, and aciiuires the ., od natno of " be«*^ Scotch " when it reaches the hands of the retailer who handles it. TKAN^ IMV ; \TION CHAIIOES. Before passing on to the next chait let mo refer to the opinion which has prev,iil(>d in the minds of a great many of our peo, Ic, that distance from market was the great ob- stacle to successful admission to the lit itish markets, and al.so that the great ab.sorber ni pi otits was the circumstance of Ix-ing so far away from ;t.,irket. I have made some examination of that ciuestion and do not find th.it distance beari any special lelafun to the cost of transportation. Those of you, who have studied political (juestions in the larger sense, will remember a remark made once ai)out the JJritish farmer that he would be sutticienlly protected always by the circum.stance that his compi.'titor.s had to pay the freiglit on the goods which they sent in from abroad. Now, the freight cluirges on our tine food products are a very small proportion of their value to the farmers he."e. I am going to base my statement on the prices the farmers here realize !>,nd not on the prices the consuming purchasers pay, on the other side of tlie Atlantic. The actual freight charges on cheese shipped from Ontario and Quebec, where the most of our supplies go from, do not exceed 5 or 6 per cent of the value of the cheese as sold at the faciories. That is the total cost for freight charges betweeii the nearest shipping statijn in Ontario and Quebec and the ports of London, Liverpool, Bristol aarl Glasgow. I doubt very much if the English and Scotch farmers or dairymen get their cheese carried to the markets for more than one or tw<.) per cent less than we do. I have not at hand the details of tran.sportation char;. ds in Great Britain, but I have enough information to show that the cverage cost of freight over there will bo nearly 3 per cent of the value of their cheese, while the average cost of ours is about 5 per cent. In tliat respect Canadian farmers are not far behind their English and Scotch competitors. By Mr. Cochrane: Q. Freight over there is much higher than ours? — A. It is much more per mile per ton. The average freight charges on our creamery butter before cold storage was put on did not exceed 2J per cent to us, and with cold storage it would not exceed 4 per cent, on the value of the product at the station of shipment, from Ontario and Quebec to Great Britain. 10 MR. JAS. W. ROBERTSON, By Afr. Wilson : Q. Do you mean to say tlie charges on our butter are only 4 per cent of its value? — A. Th„ whole cliargos*for transportation. I am not speaking of charges for commis- sion, etc.; I am speaking simply about transportation services and jjiarges. Tlie average transportation expenses on live cattle, from stations in Ontario and Quebec to the ports of landing in Gieat Britain, lias'e been from 25 to 30 per cent of their value at the point of shipment. The great obstacle which has hindered us from getting the best class of customers, and the high prices paid bylhem in (ireat Britain, is not distance, but detei'ioi'ation in (juality during transit. Deterioration of quality is not a necessary factor in distance or in length of time. It has been so with us, and this is why we have been hindeied from getting relatively higher prices, and the best class of buyers from heing our regular customers. VALUB OF COLD STORAGE, Peris liable food pifducts are not vallied accoi-ding to their nourishing pi'operties They are valued mainly according to their daintiness of flavour. That is the quality that brings a high piice, If a man were to value peaches according to their intrinsic value for nourishment as a food, Ik; would never pay the prices that they are sold at from time t(j time. Daintiness of flavour is the quality that will gain for us the best class of customers at the highest prices the market will afford. It becomes necessary, there- fore, to send not merely nourishing food products, but those having a dainty flavour. These need to be jireserved during transportation anrl while waiting for a pro fiiable demand. While I don't want to enter into any lengthy discussion this morning, on th(^ shipment of butter and cheese, I want to show what is possible in the transportation and cold storage service, while keeping a perishable food pro- duct for what might be called a better nuirket. Last summer, in my cap icity as J)airy Co'nmissioner, I ran a creamery at jMoose Jaw, out in the middle of the J^orth-west Territories. We had a rather insutlicient refrigerator at the creamery in the early part of the season ; because it was not built early enough, our eaily made butter could not be kept a.s. cold as it ought to have been. The market out iher(! wtis exceedingly dull in June, July and August, and prices were very low, from 14 to 15 cents, I held that butter at the creamery as best we could under these rather un- favourable circumstances, it being a new venture there with respect to our refrii^erator. I shipped over 500 lioxes of it to Montreal before the end of August. I sold 100 boxes then in Montreal at the very top market price, which was 18 cents a pound, for the latest made butter in the lot. I put the remainder of that butter, made in May, June, July, and in the early part of August, into a refrigerator war-ehouse in Montreal. Many reasons kept me from selling that butter about November or December. Then I carried out my original intention without saying umch to anybody, thinking I would see how that butter would compare in Great Britain with other butter that had not been so treated. I shipped the June and July butter to Manchester in boxes. lii/ Mr. McGregor : Q. Was it sent in a refrigerator car ? — A. Yes, it was sent in a refrigerator car from Moose Jaw to Montreal, but from Montreal to Manchester it went without refri- geration as it was winter time and quite cold. I did not play any deception on anybody. I .sent it simply as Canadian creamery Vjutter. It was complained of as being a little stale in flavour. That was because the refrigerator was not complete at first. I ordered it to be sold at once. Tlie price, as compared with what I might have got in Montreal, is no guide, because the market might go up or down ; but being sold simply on its own merits, the prices ranged from 96 up to 108 shillings a hundred weight, or an average of 100 shillings a hundred weight. I took the Grocers Gazette of London, England, of that date and looked at 'he highest qiK)tations of butter. The quotations there are usually a little higher than or til diffej lots -A.I THU BtiJriSh MARKET FOR ANIMAL PRODUCTS. 11 the sales, so as to attract butter to the market. On that same week the quotations in Mancliester for the very finest Danish butter were from 11") to 118 shillings, so that thf very best Danish butter sent in, fresh made, fetched only 10 shillings a hundred weight more than some of our butter made in June. Choicest Colonial butter coining in from Australia and New Zealand was selling at fiom 106 to ilO shillings, or the very finest butler coming in refrigerator coinpartnvnts, fresh made, was only 2 s!iil]ing-i a hundred weight or \ a cent a pound more than some of our butter miuie in .Juiu" and sold '.n January. All I want to demonsti'ate is this, that in these perishable fo'KJ products we can keep the quality intact without great expense, and then we can meet our competi- tors in the English market with fpiality as good as theirs. At the satne time, fine Danish butter in casks was sellinc; at from 108 to 112 siiilling< a hundred wei:,'lit. an! the finest American from 88 to !)G shillings a liuudred weight. I tojk all tlie quota- tions from the Grocer's Gazette. By Mr. Cochrane , the They are almost like our old Q. What is the weight of their cask ?— A. 112 lljs firkins, but they are not headed in on the top. Q. Just woo-d 1 — A. Yes. Q. The butter placed next to the wood ? — A. No : they are lined with parchment paper or butter cloth— nearly all with parchment paper. I was pointing out that the hiirhest quotation for the finest American butter was 96 shillings, and some of our Moose Jaw butter reached 108 shillings and sold all through at an average of 100 shil lings a hundred weight. By Mr. Macdonald ( Ai^sinihoia) : Q. This Moose Jaw butter was in boxes ? — A. In 56 lb. boxes, square and lined with butter paper inside. Q. Parchment paper? — A. Yes. The boxes cost from 15 tfk 16 cents each at the factory where they are made. Q. Was all the cream separated by separators or by deep setting? — A. A little l)y deep setting and some by hand power separators. By Mr. Cochrane : Q. You gathered the cream? — A. Not much, a little only. We took in milk ;ind ran it through a centiifugal cream separator. Some patrons sent their cream by rail. By Mr. Hughes : Q. Do you find it makes much difference, the composition of the package in which butter is sent to market ? — -A. It makes a difference to the appearance and preservation of butter. There is not much risk oi tainting unless there is a strong odor from the package. By Mr. Cochrane : Q. You have no way of knowing whether you realized better prices on one month or the other? — A. Yes, I have the record. The prices vary, but there is not much difference in the average prices of the months of June and July. It was sold in small lots of two, three and four boxes at a time. By Mr. Wilson : ■ Q. I understood you to say last year that the month did not make much difference? — A. If the butter is once made fine it can be kept fine if it is held properly. 12 MR. J AS. W. ROBERTSON. The imports of fine food products to Great Britain in 1894 are shown in the fol- lowing table : — BRITISH IMPORTS, 1894. Value. Animals living (for food) I? 44,237,455 Dressed meats 1 10,594,951 Butter 65,489,268 Margarine 14,818,075 Cheese 26,64-1,708 Urd 13,424,292 Milk (condensed and preserved) 5,252,277 Poultry 2,340,246 Eggs 18,426,118 Fruit (apples, plums, pears, grapes) 12,459,544 S313,6S6,934 These ten items of England's bill for foods imported, come to over 8313,000,000. Let rae make one remark Ijefore I leave this part of the subject, that wliile Canad;i sends to Great Britain a very large proportion of the cheese she imjioits. tlu' cheese item in Great Britain's bill is one of the smaller items ; and we might sdinchuw and souugct a lai'ger .share of some of these bigu,i'r items. Of butter in 1894 we sent from Canada $438,000 worth out of $65,500,000 worth. We might also get a share of the item for condensed milk. The diffii'ully in making any headway with tiiat in Great Britain has been that condensed milks are a good deal like patent medicines in a way. They are bought in proportion to the advertising they receive. When the Nova Scotia company liegan to introduce their product a few years ago it met with no commercial success, because the advertising expenses were so heavy the eonipany could not continue to meet them from tlie sales. If a few dipots could be started in Great Britain where this product could be put before the public continuously, at a small cost for ailvertising they would .soon recognize the excellence of the product, as they have recognized the excellence of ou ■ cheese, and thus we would get a good deuiand for condensed milk fniin Canada. By Mr. McGregor : Q. There are dried peaches too, Professor? — A. Yes, but I included only these four fruits in this statement. Tliat is a large available market, if the pi ices be such as to pay us. It is a question of what price we can get out of that market for the quanti- ties we send. SUGGKSTIONS FOR IMPROVING THE EGG TRADE. In case I might not come to it again, let me make a remark here in regard to th,) item of eggs. I have given a statement of the relative p(jsiti()n we wore able to take with ^loose Jaw butter, which had been kept fairly well. Now, Canadian eg^s in Great Britain do not stand very well yet as compared with the eggs from France or tiie eggs even from Austria and from some of tliese other countries close by. The greatest draw- back to the success of our egg trade has been, I think, that the egg merchants, as far as I can find out by inijuiry, collect eggs perhaps once a week or twice a week from all customers and from all sirts of places. The egg-waggons bring in some eggs fresh from the nests, some from the farmers' houses and some from shops, where they had been in the sutdight of a window for ten days or more. Complaints in England are, that taking 120 eggs. 100 are fresh and 20 are stale — ^not rotten or decayed, but just stale — and that causes a lower price and less satisfaction for the whole lot. The result is the same as if a shipper of butter were to ship 100 packages of the finest creamery butter, and to put 20 packages of decently good dairy butter in the siime style of package, and mix them all through the lot. There is not any butter in the lot that is bad, but the mixing In til UnitT Canij Austj Unitf supJ the[ theJ THE BRITISH MARKET FOR ANIMAL PRODUCTS. IS £ol- of the 20 packages of irregular ordinary butter with the finest creamery butter would lower the prices for the whole lot (hear, hear). It would be a fair way of encouraging the egg business if our merchants were induced to collect a quantity of eggs direct from the farm houses twice a week and have them branded as fresh laid. If this were done and the eggs put into cold storage and shipped that way, they would get to Great Britain in as fresh a condition as though they were only four days old. The difficulty has been in preventing the mixing of eggs that are a little stale with the fresh-laid By Mr. McGregor : Q. Have you got the average price paid ? — A. Of eggs ? Q. Yes. — A. No ; but I cfin give you that at the next meeting. I tiiink that tlie comparatively low prices that Canadian farmers are getting, compared with the prices that are paid for tlie best class of products in Great Britain itself, are due in a large measure to the inefficiency of the commei'cial agencies that exist in this country fur handling our perishable fi od products (hear, hear). By Mr. Maotionald (Huron) : Q. Would not tlie extra labour entailed upon the egg men in collecting their eggs once a week couiiterbalanee the additional price that would Ik? realized for tlie more freshly laid eggs? — A. I do not thiidv so, because I think perhaps two-thirds of the eggs are collected once a week. If more pains were taken to keep these .separate, the extra cost would not be more tlian one-half cent a dozen, as far as 1 can figuri; out, and the price in England for strictly fresh-flavoured eggs would be nearly six cents a dozen higher than foi mixed lots. Q. I-< it mit the custom to put the eggs into a dark compartment and examine them with a light? — A. An egg that is decaj'cd or advanced towanl decay can be disoei-ncd, but an egg that is simply stale cannot be discei'ned. An egg begins to decay in, perhaps, two ways. It may decay for food purposes by hatching; — decay is not a good word in that sense; but it may change unfavourably for food purposes by hatching. It it more likely to decay from the fermentations that are started at the pores tliat go tlirough the shell. An egg may look ever so well when viewed by a candle, and still be slishtly stale inside. The egg merchants detect whether they are fresh in flavour by breaking some, emptying the eggs out, and smelling the shells. If the odour is offi^nsive they conclude the eggs are stale. It is, therefore, neces.sary not only to keep out the rotten, stale, or partly hatched eggs, but eggs that are just slightly stale from having lain ten days in the sunlight. The following table shows the total number of animals which are available for food, and whence the supply may l)e obtained : — THE world's live STOCK. Cattle. .'^hfet-p. .Swiiw. In the world United Xincdotn 208,873,057 11,207,.5.54 4,0fi0,(iG2 12,032.018 52,378,283 534,848,924 31,774,824 2,,5] 3,077 110,1.53,032 42,273,553 102, 17--'. --'24 3,278 1)30 Canada Australania United States 1,702,785 l,0J(i,ii14 46,0",)4,807 This chart was put up to illustrate whence Great Britain might obtain the food supplies of a fine sort which she needs. It is Australasia that we have more to fear in the competition with cheese and butter than any other quarter. The numbers of cattle there have been increased within the last eight years more than our whole stock. Their 14 MR. J AS. W. ROBERTSON. increase in eight years has been over four millions of cattle, and they are going to be very t'orniidahle competitors of ours in cheese and butter products. In the United States there are large herds of cattle, sheep and swine. I point out this fact also that it is no wonder tliat the Australians can capture the English market for preserved und frozen mutton because they have such enormous flocks of sheep compared with any othei' country. By Mr. Cochrane : Q. But is the Australian mutton as good frozen as unfrozen? — A. Some of the frozen mutton that has been taken into the United Kingdom in the best condition has been eaten in London and connoiseurs have said it is just as good. I think in most of tliese cases the quality of the product, if the animals are perfectly healthy, is about equally good from any part of the world. There is a good deal of superstition about tlie so called exquisite flavour of meats being due to certain localities ; but my own observation convinces me, although certain reputati iis aii- .ittached to things because of the country they come from, things equally gooil somotimes come from other places. % Mr. McNeill : Q. That wuukl be the same breed of sheep. For example, you would not compare a Southdown with a Cotswold 1 — A. Not at all, becaust.' in the breed you have an essen- tial difference in the jiroportiou ot' fat, of lean flesh, and othoi- breed characteristics. By Mr. lliujhiis : * Q. A Southdown from Canada would be as good as a good Southdown from Aus- tralasia? — A. Yes, certainly. The only thing I can say about the quality oi meat^ jb this, it seems that the more robust the animal is — the better it is in general bluom of healtli — the nicer the flavour of the food from it will be. By Mr. McXeill : Q. With regard to the breed of sheep in Australasia, what are they generally ? They breed sheep there generally for jvool? A. They do. I have only seen carcases that are CDniparatisely small. (.Treat Bi'itain ol)taiiis her supplie-; of dairy products from the countries shown hereafter : — Butter. Value. Total values of imports, 1894 .^O."), 489, 268 From Caiiiula I'liitHii Statej* . iJeniiiark Australasia. . . Fraiu.'e S\vt'rarch? — A. Because shortly after that is the beginning of the production of the English homo dairies. The butter market is an elastic market; prices fluctuate a good deal. This chart shows the trend of them. By Mr. Hughes : Q. The fluctuation is in the season? — A. Yes ; with a gratiual downward tendency for the 15 years, although the price was fairly constant from 188G to 1893, at about 107 shillings per cwt. at Copenhagen. That is equal to about 23 cents per lb. there. By Mr. McGregor : Q. Every year a little less ? — A. On the average ; yes. PRESERVATION OP BUTTER UY COLD STOHAOE. By Mr. McMillan: Q. Have Canadians been successful in keeping butter and placing it on the market in good condition ? — A. Not until this year, because we have not had the requisite cold storage accommodation. It is not practicable to keep it without some injury unless we have a temperature as low as 32 degrees Fahr. Any butter kept in ordinary cellars or refrigerators will spoil slightly, and thus in the past we has-e gut a bad name. If the creamery men will not provide accoinniotlatiou at the several creameries, it will pay them to ship the butter to a central refrigerating wareiiouse every week. By Mr. Grieve : Q. Is there anything in the report that butter kept in cold storage for any length of time deteriorates very rapidly after being taken out?— A. No ; I think not. Let me make that clear. It is an important point. You have three forms of ordinary substances, the gaseous, liquid and solid. As typical ones I may mention steam, water and ice. There are tlie vapour of butter, melted butter, and butter. I want to make that clear. You can freeze butter that is known as butter commercially ; but the butter-fat does not get frozen. There is mixed witli tho!)utter-fat in butter, a percentage of water usually in the form of brine. In salt butter this brine does not freeze till verv near zero Fahr. If that temperature is reached and the brine is frozen, it of course aflects the butter by expansion; and when the brine is thawed the butter is likely to spoil quickly by the penetration of air through the opening of the grain of the butter caused by the expansion of the brine. But butter can be kept below freezing point, which is of course a long way above zero, Fahr. without being frozen or ruiuiing any risk of being spoiled quickly when taken out of the refrigerator. By Mr. McGregor : Q. But butter kept in a refrigerator and then exposed on the counter of a grocery store will deteriorate very quickly will it not? — A. Not in consequence of having been kept cold unless the temperature has been a long way below freezing point and the brine has been frozen in the way I have explained. 2 18 MIL JAS. W. ROBERTSON. By Mr. JfcMlllan : Q. Will butter manufactured in June, and kept in cold storage till October be in equally as good cuudition as butter made in October, and shipped as soon as it is made? — A. It will coinniercially go on the market in as good condition, if put into cold Btonige within two or three days after it is made. If it is kept even a week without cold storage it partly spoils ; but if it is kept in a dark and cold storage from within two .days of the date of manufacture, it will k^ep perfectly. 7iy J/r. lioome : Q. Do you think, if those conditions are observed, it will be cm the grasses and the length of time during which the cow.s have been milking. Great 15ritian draws her enormous supplies of cattle and beef mainly from the Unitetl States and Canada, as the following table shows: — BIUTISII IMPOKIS OF BEKF, 1894. FlMlll. Canada United States . . . Austr.iUisia Other countries. Cattle. No. 82,323 381,932 FreMli Beef. Salted lieef. I'reserved Beef. 11,185 Total 475,440 Cwt. 1,775,538 304,!J13 24,053 Cwt. 2,729 235,120 3,375 1,087 2,104,104 242,311 Cwt. 3,072 205,485 70,002 ll,2;»r Meat Unenuni- erated. Cwt. 071 34,315 10,509 144,202 291,060 189,757 We had a rather larger share in 1895 than this table shows. Lest some of you should find a diflFerence when you come to compare this table with the figures that appear in the Canadian Statistical Year Book, I should say that these figures are taken from the British returns, in which the year ends on the 31st December, while our fin- ancial year ends on the 30th June. According to the chart Canada sends no fre-h beef. I think there was a very small quantity sent during the year, but the English returns ehow none. I have nothing to say about the salted and preserved meats because I do not think we will send salted beef or preserved beef in any appreciable quantity from Canada. We shall liave to confine ourselves to sending either live :)attle or fresh beef, or in all likelihood a quantity of both for many years to come. In proposing apian for opening up a trade in dressed beef, nothing has been contemplated that would even hint at injuring the trade in live cattle. But if Canadians could have an alternative ref of ava ma bei car pec not the the qua WIl THE BRITISH MARKET FOR ASIMAL PRODUCTS. m • be in 5 it is bo cold 'itliout lin two good as ^ tiiide They i-made. bt is iiob I quality red with in the from Dill :rom the Meat Jiuuum- oruted. C'wt. C71 34,315 10,500 144,202 189,757 ne of you ures that s are taken lile our tin- » f re-li beef, lish returns )ecause I do antity from • fresh beef, T a plan for would even alternative outlet for cattle and meats, every man who se.nds live cattle to Eii;;la!iil would be rather better otF by having two markets instead of one availal)lo. T do not think the ship- ments fif Use cattle from Canada are goinjj to bi- ended at oncf by any new plan that may be suggested or put in operation. I otler only a few remarks about our pos.sible competitors in the shipments of live cattle. SIIIl'MENT OF CATTLE FROM AU.STRALIA. There is no risk of Australia competing successfully with us in shipping live cattle. One shipment was sent from there to Great Britain in 1894, and tlie fails are: — They went by a steamer called the "Southern Cross." The actual freight charges amounted to about $39 per head. The charges, including freight, insurance, fodder and attendance, amounted to §08 per head. The cattle were sold for S8>^, leaving only .$20 a head for the animals at the port whence they wore shipped. In a shipment of sheep from Aus- tral a by the same steamer, the freight alone amounted to .$2.50 per head, and the freight with fodder, attendance and insurance came to .^G per head. Bi/ J/*". Macdonald (Huron) : Q. I heard one of the delegates from Australia at the Intercolonial banquet here, saying tliat they could provide with a profit bullocks for from $8 to 812? — A. Well, that may be, but it is also true that when the expenses are so great as ••?G8 per lie-ad for shipping alive, and the expuns.s are comparatively low for shif>ping dresst>d lioef, they will send the beef rather than the live cattle. Q. Have you any statement regarding the cost of the experiment that was tried of shipments from the Argentine Republic 1 — A. I have some facts. From the Argentine Republic there were shipped in eight months in 189.3, •">,G4.3 head, in 1891, 7,831 head, and in 189.5, 2.5,16.0 head. The cattle fiom the Argentine Republic have been found to be of comparatively poor quality, from want of good breeding and good feeding ; and they have lieen sold on the average at from -SI to $2.50 per hundred lbs. less than the averaire of last year's sales of United States and Canadian Cattle. By Mr. McGregor : Q. They are found to be very wild, and not suitable for domestic purposes ? — A. They are not bred or fed for economical killing. CHILLED BEEF COMPARED WITH LIVE CATTLE. By Mr. Cochrane : Q. Could you give us any idea of of the difference in price per hundred-weight of refrigerated or chilled beef sent across to the British market ? — A. I will give an analysis of that as fully as I can estimate it. At the present time, there are no quotations available for dressed beef from Canada, because we have not yet begun the business. I may say in this connection that the carcases of cattle from the United States, after being slaughtered, sold on an average for 25 cents a hundred pounds higher than the carcases of the cattle we sent from Canada. There has been some talk as to why the people in the United States keep on sending so many cattle alive when it is said it does not pay as well as the dressed meat trade would pay. Rut it must be remembered that the pick of their dressed meat goes into their own markets in the Eastern States, and the beef they send from the United States to Great Britain is not all choice by any means. By Mr. Ifnyhes : Q. The beef they send dressed 1 — A. The beef they send dressed. I am informed that the choice beef from the large sLiuirhter h(juses goes to the cities of the Eastern States, and the remainder goes to Gi'eat Britain, where it fetches a lower price. Taking the average for six months ending the 30th June, 1895, I find that the prime or first quality of dome-itic cattle was sold in London at $8 per hundred pounds live weight. When I said that at a meeting a few weeks ago, the statement was afterwards disputed 2J MB. J AS. W. liOliEUTSON. by certain shippers of cattle. My authority was the report of the Secretary of A^jricul- ture of tlie LTnilod States, wlrch said th(; infornialion was fi'oiu otUiial sources, 'riiis is the stateiiH^nt. The price to the Liverpof)! liuyeis of piiiiie domestic c.-ttle was $7.4Ii per 100 pouiuls live weiglit. At the* >\nv' time, in thosi^ niaik(!tH, hiiidiiuart ts of Ix'ef sent in refrigerators from the United States sold at frim 810.5(J t:< .*1.'5.50 per 100 jounds wliolesaji'. At Iiirkenheaoef is tiiaweci. Tiic beef also lias a sonidwliat mussy appcaiMiK'ti. (-i. Tli(» tiljiT" f)f tlic beet" is separated, that is, one tibre from the otiicr? — A. I think so. Bi/ .\fr. Itiighes : Q. How do you acoouiit for it that fish can be kept frozen and yet it is just as good wiien you eat it?— A. If one wtM'(; a connoisseur of the tlesh of tish, wlieii it was ser\('d cold iifterwards I think it would be found to be less lii'ni in texture. Let me iriake this st;iteinent furtlxsr in connection with the time \ have j^iven these iii,'ures for, nine months endin|^ HOth Septeudier, 1895. Scotch side's were sellinj; in tlie Ijonrlou market from $\\.-l') to $14.G2 per 100 lbs. English sides were selliui; at $11. "JS to 812.S7.1 per 100 lbs. United States an^ por 100 llw. . $07.87 Avccii^^o j)i'r Ik'iiiI, liidi' .*-"i. 47 r, we would sell in larger' pieces, and therefon; per cent would be a fair allowance for loss in weight by retailing. I estimate tliat tli(! first cuts making 3.t8 pounds wouM sell at 8 pence, or 16 cents a pound, or a total of .*."j7.28. Those who know the I'ritish market will agree with me that 8 pence per pound is a low price. Second cuts, 179 pounds, J place at •'> pence or 10 cents per jumnd, making .'!? 17.90 ; and third cuts, 179 pounds at 3 pence or 6 cents per pound, making .$10.74, or a total of $85.92 for the whole carcase, giving an average of .§11.27 per 100 pound.s on the weight of the carcase wholesale. Now, I allow for the cost of retailing in this case S9.72. which gives a net return from the retail .shop of .^76. 20 per carcase. Do- ducting the charges at ^Montreal for killing, refrigerating, cold storage, freight, cold storage at depot in Great Britain (all of which T estinial(> at .^15, or rather more than the cost of shipping alive and killing at Liverpool), this gives a total of 801.20 per carcase at Montreal. To this it is necessary to add the value of the hides, offal and fat, which I place at two-thirds of the value that they realize at Liverpool, or a total of .S7.88 per head. That added to .'^01.20 gives us a total of .'?09.08 as against $63.20 realized on the average per head for the cattlo killed in Li\erpool. Then there is .$7 to come off the $03.20 forfodilor and attendants on board ship, which would make a difference of about .$13 per head in favour of the killing on this side, without reckoning anything for the saving we would have by the less shrinkages in weight and the saving we woidd have in the oceati freight charges for the dressed beef, the carriai;e of which would be cheaper than the estimate I have made. The saving in frieght and the less shrinkage in weight might amount to at least $3.00 per head. Then, I have made another caliiulation of the estimated return from 280 he^ul of cattle if killed at Montreal. The following table shows the estimated returns from 280 head of cattle if slaughtered at Montreal instead of being shipped alive to Liverpool as they actually were. u Ml!. JAS. ir. noHKHTSOX. Tim avcr.ii,'!' \voi;^lit, (if hccf as actually sold wholesale at Liverpool was 7C2 lbs. per carcase, .\llowiii;; (> per cent for 1(HH of wciglit in rc^lailiii;^, tiie not weight realized upon by retail sales would be 7 Hi lbs. per carcase. Estimated to bo sold : First-class cuts — ;i5S lbs. at 18 cents $ 64 44 Second-class cuts — 17!) lbs. at iL' cents 21 48 Tbird-class cuts — 179 lbs. at 8 cents 14 32 Total $100 24 Less e.Kpeiises and |)r(ifit of ictailor at H ceni.^ j.er lb " .. . . Sjl 43 I'^xjieiises slaughtering, refrigei'ating, chilling, freight, cold storage, etc., at 15 00 - -- S20 4 3 Net returns at Montreal for beef per carcase . . i?7.'5 81 Add, revenue from hide, oll'al and fat at two-thirds the actual value at Li\i'rj>o()l 7 88 Total 8 light side in every ekunent you have taken into calculation? — A. I think so. By Mr. McXeill : ii. Don't you think about a shilling a lb. is nearer the actual retail price in England for the lii'st cuts? — A. I dare say it is. By Mr. Cochrane : Q. Have you no scheme whin-eby you could put the Canadian beef on the market alongside with the Scotch beef and in the same condition '] — A. Yes, that is the object of a plan T am about to explain for shipping dressed meat from Monti'eal to Great Brit- ain, l)ut as it is now after twelve o'clock, I had perhaps better defer it to the nc^xt meeting. 77/ A' BltlTlSIl MAKKtiT FOIl AXI.UAn PRODUCTS. Cjmmittkb Room 4C, House of Commons, FaiDAY, 21st February, 180r>, The .Select Stiir>fliii;» Coinmittco on Aj^rioulturii and Coluiii/.atioii met tliis d.iy at 10.30 o'clock, a.m., Mr. S|)roiile, Cliainnan. presiding. Mr. Jas. W. JiOUioitisoN', A;;ricullur;d and Dairy Coiuiriission(>r was jire.«ent hy re- call and addressed tiie Coiiindttee as follows : — Mr. CiiAiicMAN and Gkntlkmic.N. — In accordance with tlie jjcnnis.sion for wlii.li [ asked yesterday T sliall read a statement of the plan proposed for opening; up a trade in Iresscd nieat with Cireal llrilain. Tt is similar to the memorandum which was suh- niitted to the Government on the subject. To givt! stability to th(^ profits from farriis, and tluis to insure pi'osjHirity to the whole country, it is necessary that all perishable food products from Canadian farms should secure as good a [)lace relatively in the Ihitish maikets as has been won by Canadian cliei'se and crcnniery butler'. Judicious and eneri,'i'tic action by the (Jovei-n- nient <-an accom|)lish as much for beef, mutton, jjork, poultry ;ind oilier food proiiuct.s as has betsn don(> for cheese and buttei'. It is most urgent and desirable that something ■~hoidd be done, puticularly for beef, 7n\itton, lamb, and poultry. and PALI,I\<; OI'K IN NUMUKItS 01' CM'TLK KXl'Olil I'.U H.UM ONIAItIO \Mi i)['V.]\Kr,. There has l)(>en a d(>cided falling otl' in !iumbei-s of cattle exported from Ontai'io and (.Quebec since 1890. The following table shows the numbers slii[iped from Caiiada to Cireat Iji'itain. Cattle. Sh(:L'i>. 1S90 12LMS2 43,780 1^91 Iis,',i.t7 32,157 1S92 9S,70o 15,932 1893* 80,S'.t9 1,780 1891 82,217. .%. . . 121,304 1805 96,546 255,508 Tlie figuics from 1890 to 1894 inclusive are for the years ending 30th June, and the ligui-es for 1895 are taken from those published in the Montreal (iKzi-ttf., compiled from the returns of the weekly shipments during the period of rnivigation. Of the 96,564 cattie sln|i[ied in 1895 it is I'eported that ftver 40,000 cume from Manitoba and the North-west Territories, next yVDVANTAtiKS OF OCjVIOUVMKNr .MANAGEMENT TO START TIIK Hl'SINKSS. Much benefit would result to those engaged in the cattle trade ami to the agricultural interests g<'nerally by the opening up of a business by which cattle would be slaughtered in Canada, and dressed beef sent direct to the consuming purchasers in (ireat l^ritain. There are many tran.sportation and conmiercial ditficulties in the way which ri) pri\'ate individual or joint stock company can successfully overcome. The business is on(^ w hich is urgently and essentially important to ihe welfare of Canadian farmers, and because the Government can I'emove or overcome the obstacles to its successful estal)lishment without tiie expenditure of a large, if anj', sum <^t money, it seems fitting and proper that the Government should take it up. That this business cannot be inaugurated from Canada by private enterprise is evi- dent from the tremendous disabilities from which the (.5reat United States packers and *For ten months only. 26 Mil. J AS. \V. KOBBHTSON. f^hippers Lacked by millions of dollars have not been able to escape. The government control of this business would win for it a status and name in the United Kingdma, which no private individual or joint stock company could ever secure. The prestige of powerful govenimcnt administration, jointid to the reputation of the government, in liaving succo-sfully assisted in putting Canadian cheese and butter on the British markets in the best way, would vantiuish active hostility from the retail butchers in (Jroat Britain without any ctjunnercial struggle involving hjss. The Government would bo in a position to s'loct the pick of the cattle at JMontreal and would thus prevent any sentiment fnjm being foisted upon the consumers in Great Britain that miglit lead them to regard the dressed meat trade from Cau-ida as a " Cheap John " aHiiir for tlie disposal only of beef from inferior cattle which were not fat enough to be shipped alive. MARKETING DIFFICULTIES UNDER THE PRESENT METHODS. CATTLE JADED AND BEEF INJURED. 1. Whiii Canadian cattle are shipped alive by railway and afterwards by steamship they arrive in Great jjritain in a jaded condition They look their worst, and are about at their worst for killing for beef. Both of these conditions enable the British cattle buyers to beat down the prices. The beef from Canadian cattle when shipped and handled in that way does not reach the consumers in such a condition as to secure the reputation for gootl (juality which it would obtain if the consumers were able to purchase the b.eef at its best from such cattle as are fed in Canada. NOW NO ALTKKN.VnVE MARKIiT IN GUEAT HRITAIN. 2. Formerly when Canadian cattle could be sent to the interior of Great Britain they cou'd be grazed and fed on grass or succulent fodders on English i.r Scotch farms foi- a few weeks. They gained tremendously in weight and recovei'ctl ([uickly in quality. That alternative outlet for Canadian cattle caused relatively higher prices to be obtain- able and also gave a steadiness to the price and demand which is now wanting. Canadian shippers with their cattle at the port where they have been landed, in the United Kingdom, have no alternative liut to sell at once or within two weeks at whatever price they can get. If they hold over for even a fortnight the co.'-'t of feeding becomes a large expense ; and the arrival of fresh shipments by the next steamers gi\es the buyers an additional argument which they use most eft'ectively in further depressing the market and lowering the prices. DIRECT TI!AI)lv CONNECTION PREVENTED. 3. As a matter of fact a considerable quantity of the beef from Canadian fed cattle does not reach the British consumers uniler the name of Canadian beef. Misrepresen- tations which go on in that practice, work directly and continuously to the injury of the Canadian fanners, and prevent Canadians from establishing the trade connection between the consumers and the producers of Canadian products under their own name, which alone can insure a satisfactory continuity of the demand. PROFITS OP MIDDLEMEN TOO LARGE. 4. The Viuyers of cattle at the landing ports and the retail butchers in Great Britain get more than their proper sliare of the ultimate price which is paid by the con- sumers for the beef from Canadian cattle. The enormous profits which they exact, and which mainly come out of tho pockets of the Canadian farmers, are little short of extor- tions. reach such In shi chillec to per or reti "Cam reputf THE BRITISH MARKET FOR ANIMAL PRODUCTS. 27 DANGER FKOM HKSTKICTIONS. 5. With the restrictions on the importation of li\ e cattle impospcl by the Impoi'ial ( rDverninont, such a condition of affairs might readily be brought about as would cause irretrievable disaster to tlie live stock interests of Canada. An alternative means of reaching the consumers with Canadian beef is the only means whereby a safe and clastic outlet can be provided for the increasingly larger numbers of cattle which are being reared and fattened in Canada. SMAI.r, SIZED CATTLE. 6. At the present time there is no opening for the exportation of small sized cattle such as are most commonly grown and fattened in tlie Province of Quebec, NO COLD 3T0KA(iK SKUVICE UNTIL 1895. 7. Dressed beef 1ms not been shipped from Canada hitherto because cold storage service, in warehouses in Montreal and on board ocean srteamers, was not provided of an adequate sort for any of our perishable food products until it was taken u}> by the Governraent during the last year. A greater measure of success than has atlendetl the cold storage service for thi' putting of Canadian creamery butter on the British markets can attend the shipments of dressed meats and other perishable food products to Great Britain. OBJECTIONS OF SENTIMENT PREVENTED BY GOVERNMENT ACTION. 8. The (juestion of sentiment on the part of the British consumers is a pov.'urful and far reaching factor in determining the way they buy and the prices thry pay for the articles of food which they consume. Tiie name '' frozen beef," and the st(jries set agog about the abominations of slaugliter houses, etc., are powerful to keep the best (.lass of customers from buying, or from letting it be known that they do buy, anything but the "best English" and "best Scotch" beef. If beef as good and as ch ap as the best Englisli and best Scotch could be obtained from shops or depots in the Uniu'd Kingdom, under the name of "Canadian" and under the supervision of the Canadian Governnuuit for one year as an object lesson, the best class of buyers and consumers in each of the large cities where these depots were placed could be attracted to give preference to tlie Canadian article. The beef could be sold at prices much lower than the current prices for the Viest quality of Mnglisii and Scotch beef, and an ever gr(jwing demand could be created at such prices as would leave it possible for Canadian farmers to obtain relatively higher prices than they have been getting during the past few years. THE PLAN RECOMMEND I:D. MEATS CHILLED ONLY ARRIVE IN PRIME CONDITION. 9. The prime object shoukl be to put Canadian beef and other meats within the reach of the British consumers in their best condition under their own name, and in such a way as to attract the best class of purchasers to be our permanent eustomei's. In shipments of beef and other meats from Canada it is necessary that they should be chilled only. The distance and time required for shipment are not more tlian sufiicient to permit 'ho lieei' and other meats to be properly cured, when they would roach the stores or retail depots i?i theUnited Kingdom. The meats should be designated "Canadian Beef," " Canadian Mutton," " Cfiiuidian Lainl)," "Canadian Poultry," etc. When the ([uality and reputation of Canadian meats under their own name are recognized and establislied, 23 MR. JAS. W. ROBERTSON. C;iiiii(li;ui shippers could coiitiiiuo in com petit ion with tin- pi-ixliicers and sellers of meats fnon all oilier countries upon ;in ecpial footing, and witli a t'-iir cliance of securing tiie best customers, particulai-ly if tliey could oiler iiebtcr value in better meals ut evc-.i llie same price per pound. RECOMMENDS I'UI.'nilASK OF HOO CAiTI.K I'll! Wr.KIC. 10. To perniil this U) be done and as an object lesson to the producers and ^liij'pers of animals and meats from Canada, I liave the honoui' to recommend that jirovision be made foi' the j>urcli ise of about "jOO head of cattle per week at tiic port of Montreal during the shipping season, and that dressed beef from such cattle be sent as '■ C.uiailian IJeef " to the United Kingdom, and disti'ibuteil. through I'ctail tlepots, in I'risiol, IJii'mingaam, (ilasgow, Li\ei'pool, London, Manchester and olhor cities, in such a way .is tu secure a lecognition of its good qualities, l'lii:i'Ar;ATI0\ of liEEF AT M(jXTREAL. 11. .Vi'rangenients can be mad(! for the slaughter- of cattle at abattoirs in Montrra!. The liei't' should be covered by distincti\e'y Canadian wrappers of attijicti\e appearance. It should be chilled in cold storage chambers. It should l)e carrieil in cold storage com- pai'tments, on board the o can steam-hips. It should be taken into cold stoi'age chambois at the port of la' ding, and from there distributed to and through the retail depots in the cities mentioned. AGREEMENTS WITH .MERCflANTS. VI. The distribution, thro'igh the retail shops or depots in cities of the United Kingdom, coukl likely be elJected best by making agreements with merchants of good .standinu, of sutlicient mean^ and Ijusiness al)ility, to su])ply ihcm with a certain quantity of beef pel' week. This would avuid the need for engaging a large numbei of men as salaried officials. HKTAIL I'HICES FIXKD. 13. The prices at which the different cuts of beef should be sold to the consumers, should be ii.xed by the Commi>sioner designated to take charge of the woi'k, on behalf of the Canadian Governmeiit. These should be advertised widely and effectively in the several cities, as well as on bulletin boards in the shops. PRICES TO TIIK MERCHANTS DETERMINED BY RICTAIL PRICES. 14. The beef should be supplied to the merchants in the several cities, with whom agreements were made, at such a price per pound for the whole carcase as would be agreed upon from time to time. That price would be based upon and varied according as the rates were varied at which the merchants were authorized to sell the different cuts of beef. The profits of these merchants would arise from the margin between the amounts realized from the retail sales, at the prices which they were authorized and which they agreed to charge for the dillerent cuts, and the amount which they paid for the beef taken by them fiom the (!o\ernment weekly. PAYMENTS BY MERCHANTS. 15. The nunchants in the several cities, with whom agreements were made, should be required to pay for the beef weekly, and their payments might take the form of checks or deposits to the credit of t lie Receiver-General. THE BRITISH MAItKKT FOR AXIMAL PRODUCTS. 29 iers of inoiits icciirini,' the Ul L'\(".l llif and slii|'|H'rs provibitiii be of M out real be sent as ■otail dt'']i6ts, her citifs, in in IMontn'al. c appearani'e. storage coni- iiire chambers itail depots in NO DEFINITK XIMISICR NEKD BK PURCHASUn. IG. It should not be made compulsory on the Commissioner in charge to purchase 500 or any other number of cattle every week. The number to be puichaseci anil killed should be left to lie regulated from time to time by the activity of the demand and the success of the distribution through the retail depdts in Great Britain. MA.XI.MIM OK KSTIMATFJ) NKT COST TO GOVERNMENT. 17. The actual nuebe.- for th(! Uniti^l Kingdom, and leave the markets of the maritime provinces compai'atively bare and available to the farmers who live adjacent to them. 'I'hat is the memorandum .is prepared by me. The other page and a half deal with the estimates. That would not come before this Committee, but I suppose will come before the House in the regular way. CATTLE EXPORT CUARGES, — MONTREAL TO LIVERPOOL. By Mr. Mc}filhi}i : Q. I was a little asli'ay yesterday in regard to the feed and care of cattle. I find $4 a head is what it costs '( — A. $4 1 1 am to add to my evidence what the cost was in the ca,ses of the 280 cattle reported on.* By Mr. CocJividip. : Q. What is that you say? — A. Tt is in regard to the estimate which Mr. Mc- Millan gave yesterd ly of the cost on board the steamer for fodder and attendance. It was spoken of yesterday as being $7 per head ; it actually is, Mr. McMillan says, about $4 per head. Jly Mr. Featherston : Q. I notice in a rejiort in this morning's Ottcira Citizen a statement in regard to your address before the Committee, reading : — "On one lot of 100 steers shipped from Montreal, slaughtered in Liverpool and sold there as dressed beef, the freight, commis- sion, ifec, amounted to !?<15.4.'5 per head. On another shipment of 180 head the expenses aveiaged 814. 9G." The report goes on to say, "These steers, Prof. Robertson claimed, would have netted -SIG more per head at ^Montreal, if slaughtered there and forwarded as dressed beef," 1 would a-k if this report is correct? — A. The report is correct in sub- stance, but it does not give the details upon which I based the estimate of that extra revenue. It was based upon the retail prices I mentioned. ■^■•v.i 'r>inTE;- The cost for hauling cars at Montreal, loading, wharfage, insurance, feed on board ship, ropes and pails an ouiited to S3.8S per head. — J.W.R. A. per etc. per 1 am c THE JilllTIsn MARKET FOI! ANIMAL PRODUCTS. 81 Q. The report goes further and says that cattle sold at a fair average price for beef in Kiighmd would have netted .$30 more jjer head tlian if .shipptid alive ? — A. That was tlt'diiced from certain ratios of retail prices for beef which were specified in the Coin- initteo yesterday. It was not a s.aving in freight, but it was chiefly the extra pi'ice realized by the retail sales. Q. >i,ikiiig §30 per liead? — A. Nearly, but it took account of the charge for fodder and attendance at $7 per head as mentioned yesterday, whereas that was corrected this morning ^\ ]ier head. 'hj Mr. Wilson : Q. There was asivin,i,'in freight? — A. I ai)ers in Montreal, giving the names of the men from wiiom the cattle were bought, I he number of cattle bought, their weight and the prices paid. The information would be o[)en to everybody and prevent any po.ssibility of fa\ouriti.sm being shown in buying cattle from any individual. UU Mr. McMillan : Q. Could you carry on the business from Montreal during the winter? — A. Not yet ; want of cattle would be the draw back. Q. And su|)pose you had the catth; they would have to bo reshipped inio the cars in Montreal. There would be no vessels to put them into? — A. My opinion on this is that there would be idjattoirs after the first year at Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto, and Montreal and Queliec, and from each of these places the dressed beef would be shipped in refrigerator cars to St. John, N.B., or some other port. That is for the winter service. Q. The attempt was made nine years ago or so to send beef to England and refriger- ator.■^ Mere put into some vessels. The companies, however, found it did not pay them and took the refrigerators out. Will the people sending the meat now put in the refrigerators themselves? A. I know some of the steam.-hip companies put in excellent refrigerating plants several years ago and took them out again because it did not pay. T think it was because the aceonnnodation on the steamship was premiiture. The ti'ade was not ready for it then. Last summer the refrigerating appliances on th' ships running from Montre d served the purpose for carrying butter over. The acconunndation was 11' )t as good .as it might have been, had mechmical refrigerators been provided. W(^ could not afford that the first year, and we used ice only ; but during the coming year, I understand that one or two of the steamship lines will put in mo'-hanical refrigerating apparatus, which will enable us to ship butter in still better condition. By Mr. Featherston : Q. That is dry cold air?— A. Yea. Bi/ Mr. Cochrane : Q. Have you figured out the difference in the cost of shipping the dressed meat and the live anim;ils? There should bo a great advantage in shippirig the dead meat from CaL'ary and western points as compared with the live stock? — A. After the business is established I t'link there will be a clean saving of at least one third on the e.vp.-nses of the shipment. By Mr. McDonald (Assa.) : Q. How will it affect the tran,sportation companies? — A. The rdlro d and steam- ship companies will make as much money because they will be carrying th"Ke carcases for less outlay. For instance, there will be less expense for fuel. The increase in the business A'ill be so great that it will be better for them, as mote high class freight will go forward. There are one or two other matters that I might mention in this connection. I have suggested that the cattle might be killed in aVjattoirs in Montre. 1. I have already received communications from the company owning the abat.oirs at Montreal THE BRITISH -JARKET FOR ANIMAL PRODUCTS. 33 offoring to kill the animals sit a reasonable rate per head ; to rotViu'crate the carcases and to put them on board the steamships. It is not •, rojios d that the Government siioul 1 invest any money in buildings except, pei'liaps in the diieetiori ot' supplying some of the fittings for the retail depots in (^reat Britain. I tliinU the business coulil be managed entirely without the Govermuent owning the premises or incurring any expen- diture in that way. By Mr. Featherston : Q. The Government would not be liable for any permanent expenditure? — A. Xo. Ni:\V AUATTOIHS TO UK I'HOVIDI'.I). Not rating eat and from mess is ■uses of steam- arcases ) in the ht will nection. I have lontreal I do not say it disparagingly, by any means, but the abattoirs at Montreal are rither unsiglitly, and tliey are not very conveniently situated for the export trade. The Abattoirs Company have written me saying that if they know .soon that this business will be gone on with, they are prepared to i)ut up, at their own expense, n(;w aljattoirs large enough to handle the business which [ have mentioned. They will charge no more for the killing and refrigerating than they charge for the best work they do now. Q. What accommodation is there now 1 — A. The accommodation is large enough, but the buildings are old and somewhat unsightly. My fear is that this business, if once inaugurated, would meet with the keencjst hostility from the English butchers. Thev would leave no stone unturned to prevent our getting a footing in England ; and if the present abattoirs were used, our rivals would not, hesitate to have them iihotographed and scattered broadcast throughout Great Britain In this way they might create a pi-ejudiceagainst the business which it would not be easy to overcome. Recognizing the force of this rea.son, the Abattoirs Company say they are prepared to put up ntjw build- ings and undertake the expense attendant thereupon. The charge they stipulate for is 60 cents per head for killing and flressing ; they now change ."lO cents, and 60 cents pet- head for the best work ; the charge is to be 15 cents a carcase for the lirst week for refrigerating. By the Chairman : Q. Does that charge of 60 cents give them the offal? — A. Yes, as they get it now. Tt does not give them the hide nor the tallow, but it gives them those parts not used for food. WRAPPERS FOR THE MEATS. Then it is proposed to get distinctively Canadian wrappers for the meats. Such beef as I have seen going forward from otiiei' countries has been put up in unsightly and cheap canvas, so that a good deal of the meat lf)oks niussy and nasty when it ariives at the retail shops. I propose that we should put up our beef in strong canvas, as strong even as duck if need be, with the word, "Canadian" stamped on it. By Mr. McGregor : Q. What would it likely cost? — A. I have an estimate of the cost from one of tlie mills and it might come as high as 75 cents a carcase. The suggestion has been made that the cover should be of tilled clotli, so that stains would not show through it and there- by render the sides unsightly. By Mr. Featherston : Q. It would be practically air tight ? — A. The seams would not be air tight. Pre- cautions of this kind would involve expense that might be regarded as unusual. We might expend $1.50 on each carcase in order to make the sides look attractive ; but I am satisfied that it is to our interests to present the meat in an attractive form for every body who may see it when it lands. 3 84 uii. JAs. If. noiinmrsoy. Q Wuiilil riol nni^;li i-iiiivhh d.i ? A. I fivir tin' iuiif/|i dimv/ih UimI J liiivi- mccii imf fliit'li a I'li.irMclcr tlwil il wcinld Im> iili|i>i>lioniilil(> iinil iinHiTvioi'iiUlo, It (niIcIich nil kindH of dill nil I he Niiitai'c, mid Ihci^h muHMy. Jli/ Mr. Ill urn : (}. (j'liili' .'I ]:\v |iniliiiHiil, tlH'rc'I'iirc, In (i|M'ii il|i llii. Ir.idi' r;iiiiiii( li ni'iirdrd (in lirw f A. 'Mr, iin. 'riii>ii|ily (liiiii; lli.'ii i'l III w i.M III liy .ind ir.nli llir i mi uiiii'i't mi llii- nl licf f;id<> nl' llii' AiIhiiIk! (Iirmiuli llii- |irii|iii I'll ri'l;iil di'|inl'i, .'ind .il n I lir irtViLii'iMl ii'ii liy iin'i'liiiinr.d inrtiiii in Ni('llll|-.||l|i'. iVnlll ( 'llll.ldi.lll purls. /!>/ Mr. Fiiilhi rsloii : 9 (,,). ll.iM' ynii iiiM'sli-Jili'd lli(< Ami'fir;iii sysd'in nf slii|i|iiiiL,' dc'id mii'mI? A. 'k'cM, liiil nut !\s I liuniii:^lily na I wmild iiki'. Miiiiii:.; llio iirvl trw \vrrl,N, Ihiwi'mt, I iiruiio.'-ir to Ni'f Miiiii'l liinu iiinr 111' il. I l.iiuw I lirir uiiin id n:rl Imd,' , Iml lli.iv c iml ln'rn (liilc lo Ili;d\<' MS I'lMllplrli' .'III rv.'llllinill inn jis 1 wniild wi.li. /.> Mr .\tr. ]/;//„, I : i). Is ( hi'ir inr.il ^lllll lo coimuissioii iiicirliaiil.'i? A. No ; sninc ot' IIh' (inns Imvc tlii'ir i>« II d('iin(.'i in (irral Hiiliiin. O, i' lii in mIuih' Ih siiid In li.'ivc ovor iSI) dcjiulH iVniii vhi('l) (lii'vscll till' liri't'. Tiii'v .'irr slill liiliniirin'_', Imwi'vi'i-. under I liis distidviiiilni'o, llu' lirilisli |ii'n|)|i' sn|i|Mii' llml lliclu'i'l' I'mninLl t'lniii ( 'liiriiyn is nut ii.s ;,'ond as I lir " Ih'.sI Si'nlih " nf I lir '■ l)i'sl I'lnuHsli." 'i'llcsc linil';, (lii'ii't'nrr, ^rl n liaw.s nf cilwtuni(ilH tlial Imy a inwcr i^radr nf lii'cf tli.iii llial snid undiT llii' iiMiiir "lii'M Smirii." /!>/ Mr. /■'riit/irr.-'tdii . <,' I may '^ax lliat I lia\ i- I'ali'M as i^.ind Amcrii'an lii'i'f in Srnliiiid as I i'xit ale in my lite. A. I am s.ilislii'd llial sniiie I'Mclicnl. Iii'i'f is m'iiI hmt. tj>. I llnnk llic slanylllcriilL; lA' all llii> wcsIiTII rat I le .slinilld lii'ilniii' in llir West. If I ha I well- arrani;i'd. it w nuld L;iM' I he * tularin farmers a, ln'l ' er i-ale of freiijlil tni li\e oallli'/ A. Aeenrdinu In I he kimwledire \vhii-|i I lia\e, (he jadin;j; and liiiiisin ■ nf Ihe iininial.s neeui' in .inly nn the lailw i\ jnuriiey, and \et, I have iml lieen aiije In free myself frniii the impressinns m.ide ni; my niiiul nn Iwo neeasinns in irn;siii'.; ihe ,\|,|aii- lie nn sicamshijis whieh had ealilenn lin.ard. We h.id rniiLjh weather, I .s i w llii' cat- tle I'niir nr live times and iheyMillered very nmrh. I am inelinedtn l»eiie\e that these I'oiiuh passages were not. eliaraeteristie of w hat usually liap[ieiis. />// -l/r. .]f<'(h-rn(^r ; \V The liistillers elaim th.u the rattle ^ain all I he w ay n\ cr durini,' t he viiyaue ? — A. Nn dnuhl they may in the summer time ; nr at. any time with a smontii p.iss.i^c, I (iare s.iy they would. /)•// Mr. MrMUhm : (.). 'V\w fii'st time 1 went over with 00 head of cattle nf ours, (hero wore, other two lots for which J^'J per head were otVered at Montre.il more than for mine. Hut when miti(> were y\\\ om tlu^ market thoro thov avoraged ^5.') uiorc a head than thoH(i for w hii:h more was ntVeivii at Mont real.- -A. 1 wont on hoard a steamship not many weeks ago to see tlie cattle at St. .lolin. N.B., and in conversation with some nu>n who iiad hceii in tiiat business [ learned that a loss of (ive. six and eight dollars p(;r liead was eommon, when there was not some one interested in the cattle with them all the time to see that tlie feeding was regular and that the cattle were well cared for. By Mr. Featherston : Q. That is tlie great secret of success in tlie trade, having them well cared for. If not vou lose all your profits and more too? — A. Yes. (, ^r/itiii thing iii.slai .i"H.. eolirse uetinn and si Wd'; li yoii w t^> ill iiii'lin t . Ii;i or tl lllllle shoiili oarcas cents W(! w. lie w Woul( (>ov(*n A i-efri that, deiiian .SUpplii orders, no neiM for imi think ; outside would 1 i> Hcoii i'l I' (inns liii.M' (li'|iulH t'l'iilll is,Hl\lllltllL!<', ;,'()(« I il'i llll" if CUSlnliMTH • \ cr .'ill' 111 in till' West. i-ll( tnl li\(' iiisiii 111' I ill" mIiIc I" iVi'i' ,' till' Alliiii- s.iw I III' i'mI vo lliiil llii'si' tllC VIIVMUI''? li jiassii^c, I t licr 1 wo lots i wluMi iniiio r wliicli iiunv ll>n not 'Willi niiii'li hIkhiI. IIik Hi iiroinmiiU, mul iIm'V iniv ih" il in lie inmlilii'il if till' liiioiM' ■. w i;iiiii' mi wiili, iil'li'i liiiiini'is ronft'H'nc' ; iiif Innl with iIh- nii'ti will) iiif lilu'ly lo tin the mIIiii!^. \\ >• iiiiis' |iro|iipi' lo ilii'Mi |iomil is tlml tlii'if hIioiiIiJ not 111' iiimc lliiin two inin on 'iiitiry in 'iii'iil i'liliiin. 'I'lic ncalH would ln' o,,,|(| ,|,|, t,|,„ si'M'ial rilics liy iiiii i-IiiiiiIh wlm know racli fily iitnl l. Yon don t |>i'o|iiiMi' (o ;.') into tin' ii'lail tmdc'/ A Yf^, lo im cxti'nt. //// Mr. /ini''n: (JI, If yon i,'o into t hit you will find lliiil, llm n'' iv ;[i'i|iri i will not .idv(!ftii(- you j^iiit iiilini'lv ' A. VVfll, till! ni'WH|iii|ii'rH I In-i n liavi- alirady ndvi'i t.Hi'd tli)^ inatltM' aH a t liiii'4 I III' * loM'iiriiMiit wiiH doin;^ for llm nakn of tlin faiin<'r-> of iliis roiint,ry. l''or insliincf, tlir- " I ,iM'r|iiiol <'oiiiii'r " Iiiik jilicudy f,'ivi'ti a favonralili' editorial on tlic hiiI»- ii^i't. 'i III- "Si'otlinli l''ainii'i " Kaid, in i^Hrrt, llnit, lli" ('anadiati 'iovcrniiient wii , of (ioni'Kn, looldii/^ at thn Hrln'ini' fioiii llii' |ioint of view of tlie Canaijian far/ii'rM, Iml tlid (ii'lion of till! (Janiulian (lovernini'iil. won d li ive an cHi'cl. on the Sr,olr;li f.irnierH iiy. well ; and sinei" (hn |iio|iii'i;i| wan to lia,v(> llie jiiodiire of C'an.'ida Mild iiniler' its own name, it was; lild'ly to do the ( )ld (!ouri(,ry farmer', yood serx ice ratliei' t.h.'iii injiiry. <,». 0!i, yes, thai is /^cneriilly ; Iml when il, coinei down to individual 'i' ies or to '.th, yon will (ind it \\ill he did'o'cinli. ,\. It will hr dillnrniit, n'> floiiht,. What we propo^Ci to do is t ,\Iontreal to sond lar.'fjf ,sup]ilies, and, if the dem.'uid w.ih slack, he I'ould mukI wor.l not o send any until further orders. 'I'he nieid, could hi; kejit six weeks without flet, •rioration, .ttul thoro would he no notKl to s(!iid it out from Montreal until tli(!ie was a fair prosjiect of itn heing ro juirwi for inimodiato oonsunipdon. By Mr. \Vilso7i : Q. Ts Rix weeks as long as you could kwp it without deterioration? — A. Yes. I think aftcn' that it would begin to show a little iniistiness, and take a darkened colour outside. Q. But, so far as flavour ,goes, do you think it would be all right ? — A. I think it would keep for six weeks with innprovement. ^ .1//.'. J AS. jr. noHEHTso.y. I'l.AN I'ROI'OHKU TO PUOVIDK LASTING AUVANTACiKS. Thn (il)jcit of this proposiil for nifiiiaKin;^ the retail jiiirt is to avoid a vory sorioUH olijcetioii, uiid to (ichiy the Government for the meat would be dropped accord- ingly. Q. At the end of tl'c week if any remained over he would have the responsibility of disposing of it. — A. Yes, but he would not be required to buy any quantitvper week more than he could dispose of. We would let him buy as little as he could sell. Supposing we had arranged to sell up to .500 a week over there, and in one week all those merchants had not sold more than .300, we would still have 200 in hand at the central refrigerator depot, and would cable at once to Montreal to ki.l only 300 the next week. We would always have enough on hand to make supply elastic. By Mr. McMillan : Q. I am afraid it would he almost impossible to fix the price at which they would sell, because whenever they had a settled quantity, and the meat would be a certain time on their hands they would reduce the price in order to get rid of it ? — A. No they Tilt: nUlTISH MAllKET FOR AXIMAL I'ltiiDUCTS. 37 ' sonoUH t ill it-* in (Jreivt ,•((•(! the iciul tllf' leemtMits M(» i'isl< cat w«!ek It. This unci tin' icS, wluMl so far lis Vc would iii;^ could » bo lUiide ,oss. Tho Montreal mti'i'al at 00 or any ;ht 1)0. I England, ;er. That companies •OS. They iS Chicago 10 ones we propose to way, that 10 Govern- /antageouH at which led accord- ;ponsil)ility y per week d arranged ad not sold :lepot, and aid always they would be a certain it?— A. No merchant in any city would he ro(|iiiri'(l to have more than tlirco days' .sup|>lv on hand •iiui thore could ho no nhji'otiun ti Ills soiling iho lieet' as low as he likoil, only he must not charge higher tliiin tho prices fixed by the Commissioner. Jiy Mr. Mcd'ref/oi' ; (i. lie would only io(|uiro the best cuts? — A, He would rocpiire throe classes of cuts, I think. Tho IxM't' would b(^ cut up in ihi'oi' cLisscs, first, second and third. A large proportion, or about one hnlf of the carcaso, woidd ,soll as lirst class, a quarter of the carcase as second, and the roinaindoi- a-~ tliicd class. Jii/ Mr. /•'i'ii//ii'rs/iiii ; (.i. You coidd not aiway.s ilej)i'nil on getting the maximum price? — A. If the retailer wanted to soil choa|ior we could not help that. The object is this mainly: We furnish those mtMi in the sevoia! I'itios with the very best class of beef. Supposing the very be t English and Scotch euis wore soiling in tho same city at a shilling a pound, if tho morchant could chai'gi! ii sliil ing a iionnd retail for Canadian beef, and buy it ti'oui us at a \('ry gicMt ileal loss, lie woiili be taking all the pi'olii, and we would not bo getting consuming customers to know the relative choapne.'-s of Canadian hoof. Tho object is to get customer.^ to these sho])s at retail prices that we can afford to sell at \\ itliout an . loss. <^). ( looil butchei's might eoine and buy a lot of our best cuts when '// Mr. Mr M ilia, i : Q. T think there is a scheme f)n font to have all those who sell foreign meats in the lOnglish markets liccnsod ? — .\. 1 would favour that as being a good thing. I am (juite willing to admit thore are many dilliculties in the way, and it is becau.se there are ditli- culties that tin; (!o\ernmont should undertake the business, no private concern having been ablt; to surimiunt those dillicuhies so far. liij Mr. Inifx : Q. Till' dilliculty is in carrying out the details? — A. Yes; there are lots of diffi culties. I mav say that, after all, while every thing has been considered as far as I have discussed this busine:ss with tlu? shippers of meats and butchers, there will doubtless be need of modifying the plan as circumstances arise anil have to be met. 1 Jiy (he Chairman : Q. How far have the arrangements been made already ? What do you propose in tho outline that has been drawn up ? — A. No doHnite business arrangements have been made. I have merely been authorized to make impiiries as to whit arrangements could be made. No agreements can bo made and no e.xpendiiin'e can be incurred until the money has been voted by Parliament for the purpose. The whole plan has Vjeen sub- mitted, information obtained, and propositions made to several firms, inijuiring whether they could cany out what it was proposed to do in case Pai'liamont sanctioned the plan and voted the money. By Mr. McMUIaii : Q. Would the sale of this meat in the different cities in the old country not be influenced more or less by the sale of live cattle that are sent there during the week ? — A. I think to a very limited extent. I think that no more than one quarter of the dressed beef from Canadian cattle that are sent alive is ultimately sold as Canadian beef. The rest goes as the best English and best Scotch. 88 M/{. JAS. W. nOliKlilSOX. Q. Last year we sliipped one lot of CMttlo, tlie !iveraj,'o was 1,100 lbs, and we had $75 p(M' head at our own door. Two weeks at'tcf we sent oscr anothi v l(Jt, and we did not f;et)$()0 per liead altlioUL'li they were nf)t .">0 pounds lii^diter. I mention tiiis lu'caiise I am afraid it will he inqMisMljle to settle the ]irice of the slaughtered meat while the price fluctuates so much, of the live animals which were lieinj,' sold in the British markets. pond By Mr. Wihon : <,}. The Comini.ssioner in England would look after that?— A. By cable corres- ence Mill 1 ntl lerwiso //// Mr. F''a//i'rs/im : Q. lint I lie retail trade does not fluctuate so quickly? — A. T find these fluctuations to be unaccountal)ie. I think the ijuyers on the other side u.'-o^dl kinds of unfavourable conditions to force the price of live cattle down, and if there was an alternative market in .Nfejntreal for these cattle, and the men over there knew they culd be sold in .Mon- treal as well as shipjied ali\e, a dull market would not come so readily iu either Dept- foid or Ihikeniii iul after the fii'st year. Jli/ thr. ChairtnuH : t,). I suppose you could not give any tlefinite infurmation when this would be announcc'd, or the arrangements wi)uld be completed, so the public might b(! informed ? — A. That lies with the Government and Parliament. The proposal asks the Governn.ent to put in the estimates the sum of $."i00,000 for this purpose. This sum is asked foi' not to be sprMit fur the maintenance, but iu order that tli(;re should be .sulllcient funds a\-ailable to purciiase a'out 500 head of cattle a week for eight weeks, that being the possible lime before the returns fi-om the cattle will be available to use over again. That is to say, a credit of AoOOjOOO is asked for, with a limitation of loss or cost for maintenance of !?.'iO,000. My own impression is that the whole plan could be carried through without any loss at all. By Mr. liocnie .• Q. Three hundretl thousand dollars wouM bo sufliciont to form a credit to carry that on? — A. I think so. There might be expen.se of $40,000 a week for actual purchase of cattle rnd other expenses. /iy the Chairman : Q. Where would you purchase your cattle ? — A. In Montreal, for the first year. Q. From buyers who brought them in ?— A. Yes. I think the business could be financed with a capital available for six weeks, but ther-e might be a lime in the season when it would be advisable to send over 800 head of c ittU; \m'v week. We count on two ■weeks in Montreal, not usually you know, but we might need that. I think it would be desirable to have the meat thoroughly cooled and chilled. Tlien we might count on two weeks on the ocean. Caii.ii l>.'Ml4 Alls' I Ot)i. By Mr. Feathfrston ; Q. Then you want your cattle cool and the fever reduced before killing ? — A. Yes ; and then we might count on two weeks on the other side before the returns were avadable to use over again. By Mr. McMillan : Q, You cannot count on less than ten or twelve days on the ocean? — A. It was tliought safer to have provision made for eight weeks ; and if the money was returned more (piickly of course the vote would not bo called upon. in icl ^> iMi[ tiiatf Grcil le.s A add tlx. II THE nniTLSJI MA/.'KET FOIi ANIMAL PRODUGTS. 39 By Mr. lioome : Q. Have you anything to say with rej^ard to pork and mutton ? — A. Yes, I propose to .show a chart indicating the other two hranchos of t' e meat busine.ss. By Mr. Boyd : Q. Do I undorstand you to say you do not intend to purchase in any otln'i- phice but 3Ii ml real for the first year? — A. Fov the first year the killiiii^ would be done in Montreal and the purchasing could be done there as re([uired. After the lirst year, with the Government inspection, I think abattoirs would be in oper;ition insi.xor seven plac((.s. The business would then be (lun(^ ijy pri\ate coniuiercial enterprise, and not by the Government. The Government would appoint inspectors to grade the qualily. By Mr. Feathtnflcm : Q. This last fall all the best cattle that arrived in ^lontreal came from the Xorlh- west. It would be a great advantage if the Government could have these cattle slaughtered in the west instead of at Mouti'eal. The colour of the meat would be much better? — A. Some of tlu; largei' firms interested in cattle out there have ah'eady discussed the desirability of slaughtering ut Calgary, and I said that if the jilan were gone on with, and I were intrusted witli the management of tlie details, I would not olVer any oljjeciion to a train load coming down for trial. Some of the firms have oflercd to sell two or three train loads of cattle fi'om the lanches, to be killed at INIontreal, and t(jsend similar cattle alive to Liverpool, thiough the usual channels, in order to discover what. difi'erence there would be in the returns from them. BRITISH IMPORTS OP SHEEP. The following table shows the number of sheep and lambs and the quantity of their prochicts imported into (ireat Britain in 1894 : — Fiuin .Shcop and Lainlis. Mutton, I'Vcsh. Mutton, I'rosorved. f'rc-iTV ed .Miar<, otlu-v than Bcnf and Mutton. No. 135,n22 198,1311 C5,43!l 73,440 11^952' Cwts. Cwts. 1,258 3,02t> CwtH. 2 320 Uiiiti'd .State.^ 1 ^t'liiiiark . 23,121 (;s,.394 ,\r>;i-iit;u I^.'pubh. Xxis* ;.la >'a 58,5,729 1,439,, 5(12 24(i,714 ioi;,«i9' 1,425 43!!l(';.5' 35,7 " ■ ♦■■hat the prices range from 5s. Gd. to 6s. 6d. per 8 lbs. That line indicates the fluct-.i; tiors for the six years. New Zealand lamb or mutton is represented by the black liui", did it fetches not very much more than half the price per pound which is obtei led fur the best Scotch mutton. Until recenth' New Zealand mutton has gone into England mainly in tlie frozen state. It is held that by freezing it, injury is caused to the texture or flavour. With the arrangements which we piopose to make for cold storage compartments I see no reason why Canadian nmtton could not be sent into the English markets and take a place very near the Scotch mutton. We have done so already with cheese and I do not see why we should not do it with mutton. By Mr. McMillan : Q. Has there not been a stagnation in the market in Australian mutton ? The mutton from there is too heavy anil too fat, and our Canadian mutton is generally fit' — A . That is in keeping with the whole trend of British tastes. The British people object to anv moats that are too fat. By Mr. Cochrane: Q. Do you think the difference in the price as between Australian and K ,o^ch mutton is due to the fact that the Australian mutton is frozen or it is not so go^ J I.. quality 1— A. I think there are three factors which make the difference. One is that it is frozen ; tlie next, that it is ustralian and not the "best Scotch" and the name counts for a great deal : and (he third factor, and not the least of the three, is the intrinsic quality of the mutton where originally grown and slaughtered. By Mr. McGregor : Q. I understand that in Australia they mostly raise the Merino, while with us Southdowns and Shropshires ai'e the principal breeds? — A. Southdowns, Shropshires, Cotswolda, Leicesters, Oxforddowns and Dorsots are the best for us. This cliart wil' sliow the place where A'nerican chilled beef .stands as comjiared with the price o*:' Scotch mutton. It is about one sliilling to about one shilling and four pence per stone of 8 lbs., lower than the price of Scotch mutton. Tliis chart is prepared to show everytiiing that is favourable to the .Australian and New Zealand trade. It is published ut.'diir their auspices and .shows tliat American chilled beef for the whole carcase, sells at a higher rate than the Australian or New Zealand frozen beef for the hind quarters only. THE BRITISH MARKET FOR ANIMAL PRODUCTS. 41 By Mr. McGregor : Q. Is tlip Australian mutton in England sold by wholesale or retail 1 — A. They have depots there and sell in any quantities, by the carlo.id or down t(} three or four carcases. There is no limit so far as I know. £1/ Mr. Pridham : Q. Is it your intention to try the experiment with sheep and lambs as well as beef ? — A. The intention is to start with beef and after a few iiKJuths or weeks to join on larab, mutton, poultry and eggs. By Air. Featlicrston : Q. I think there would be a good opening for sheep and lamb because the embargo there has huit us severely? — A. There could be no objection to adding sheep and lambs ; lut in going into a business of this kind, it is best to be cautious and not put on too many things at first. By Mr. McGvpijov : Q. When you are opening a shop you have got to keep a supply of mutton. If the salesman bought Canadian beef from one place, and English mutton from anothei', the shop would not be a Canadian shop ? — A. I would like to ,see the plan applied to sheep as soon as possible. SWINE PHOnUCTS. iobjc tch that It i The imports of swine products are enormous and are continually increasing, following table shows the quantities imported in 1894^ : — The From Pork. Fn'.sli. Pork, S.ilt.'d. Bacon. Hams. Canada United .St.ates Cwta. 4,;«!}' 2,01.-1 1.33,520 40; 503' Cwts. 7,702 l.'iU.lSO (il,3(;0 1,<135 1,7!)1 2,045 Cu-ts. 254,443 2.5lil,203 7()(!,S2,S 23,i)i;0 72,541 10,923 Cwts. .50.. 570 1,075,270 1.785 Holland 2,i53 Total 180,383 225,019 3, ()8! 1,(11 14 1,120,784 This shows the import of swine products into Great Britain. Canada sends no fresh p:)rk, a little salted pork and a considerable quantity of bacon and hams. I would like to say in connection with this chart that last September, the pfn'k packers in Wiltshire, where there are the great p icking houses for England, were paying 9^ cinits per lb., live weight for swine weighing from 150 to IGO lbs. 1 know that it is not fair to pick out the high prices, for f- high class article with a very limited trade, a-id try to apply them to the products of the country generally, but it seems to mi' there is room for opening a fairly large trade by sending fresh pork to the United Kingdom, either to be sold as fresh pork or to be cured over there. By the Chairmati : Q. I thought pigs were always bad sailors 1 — A. Yes, I would not send themoveralive. I would send them over in cold storage. By doing that, you would do two things. You would get the consumers to buy our pork as fresh pork, or you might even get the 42 Atn. J AS. W. ROliERTSON. packers there, who buy our cured bacoix and hams, wash, trim and smoke them, to pay higher prices for the fresh pork. By Mr. Cochrane : Q. How do you figure out 9A cents live weight, for dressed meat? — A. 9| cents per lb. live weight will give aljout Hi cents per lb. dressed meat. Pigs shrink aljout IS per cent from fattened Hve wcitjiit to the dressed weight. ./)',// Mr. McMillan : Q. But not if tiii'y arc very fat? — A. These are small hogs of 150 to IGO lbs. Then it was limiit'd to tliis, that ilie lard must not l)e above 2^^ inches thick on the back. Our bacon must certainly be produced both lean and mild to suit the market over tl.ere. liy Mr. M,-l< 'an . I ask if y.u Jiave l)<;en in correspondence about opening up the depots on ? — A. I have recei\(!(l lettei's from several people offering to take up the ••ut c\ny detinite tei'nis being mentioned. Tiie intention is tliat some u '0 Britain and make en(|uirie^- personally before any arrangements the other s business, l)ii one should «, are made. Q. T suppose ydu are satisfied it could be done? — A. I think so and without much trouble. Q. It would lia\e to be Oianaged altogether from the other side as to the supply? — A. As to the distribution, yes. COLD STORAGE FOR CHEESE. I have mentioned in my memorandutn one word about the need for having cold storage for cheese. Last summer I think, throe separate shipments of cheese were made in cold storage com[iartmeiits. These were landed on the other side in so nmch l)etter condition than with ordinary storage, that the merchants in Montreal who are the largest exjiorters say that they ar(! (piite ready to pay the 5 shillings a ton increased freight rati' to get cold storage for cheese on the steamers, that is, cold storage with ventilated compartments through which air would be driven, kee[)ing the tempeiature at about 40 degrees. The steamship companies say if cold storage compartments are provided for meats they will fit up other compartments and give the cheese men all they want for an extra charge of 5 shillings a ton. It is not e.xpected that this service would cost the Governnu'nt anything except perhaps an allowance for the space occupied by the partitions. The steamship people will put up the compai'tments if they are guaranteed against loss on the space occupied ; and they say that for the expenses of fitting up the compartments and cooling them o shillings a ton would pay them. liij Mr. McGregor : Q. From your knowledge of the business do you think that cheese would be just as good on the retailers counter if it was kept down to 40 degrees and then exposed to a temperature of say 70 degrees in a shop? Do you think it would be just as good as if it had not been kept in cold storage .' — A (,)uite as good. Q. You do not think that after it has been in a refrigerator you have got to dis- pose of it pretty quickly? — A. The injury to our cheese trade through the lack of refrigeration comes about in this way. There are large shipments in June, July. August and September. When any one cargo arrives in a heated condition on the other side, everybody expects bargains, and a demoralized tone is produced in the market at once. The benefit that would arise from the cold storage would not bo ro much that it would prevent deterioration in all the shipments as that it would prevent the demoralization ■ f the market, which is always more or less caused by the landing of damaged goods. I£ only one lot in ten should bo injured by overheating on board ship, to the extent THE nillTlSII MARKET FOR ANIMAL PRODUGTS. 43 to (lis- lack of of 2s. 6d. a hundred weiglit, Llie loss would be as nuicli as would p ly •").s. a tun all around for cold storage service. /!>/ Jfr. MrMlHan: ' (.} \\ ouid you he ahle to ship tlie cheese as gr^'en, If y^u put it in cold storage] — A. Not (juito in ihe sumniei- time. By Jfr. McGviijor : Q. It ripens after it is shipped? — A. It ripens now on the voyage to a considaMiships i-ouid al>o Ijc provided at almost no extra expense for fruit, i)y comparttntMits tiiat could be kept cool and be ventilated by the diiving of cold air through them. I am veiy hopeful tliat if these perishable food products could be put in retail shops in Great Britian for one year, under the name " Canadian," we would gi;t so miuu' customers to know our goods that every man in the trade would share in the prolit^ that would arise from the business. Jii/ tin' Clanrmnn : Q. Your proposal then would be for the (rovernment to build colil storage ware- houses over there? — A. In Great Britian there are now cold storage warehouses in nearlj' all the large cities and we would ex|ioct to arrange at a tixed rate pei- week, j)er cwt. When the Government gave up the business after the first season f)f operation, there would be no plant or buildings on hand except perhaps the small refrigerating plant in the shops and some fittings t(i make them attractive. £>/ Mr. Cochrane: Q. You will have to put a refrigerator in the shops? — A. Yes ; there would not be need of a refrigerator in the shops of Great Britain to preserve the meat, Ijut I think it would make them a good deal more attractive if the ni.iin part of each shop was keiit at a tempiM'ature of about 40 degrees : and it would not c(jst mucti to lia\e it so with glass partitions. The refrigerating machines are made now to cost comparatively small sums and they do their work efficiently. Jii/ the Ohairnicm : Q. What do you propose to produce the cold, ice or chemicals? — A. It would be by mechanical refrigeration and by the circulation of chilled dry air. That is said to be the i>est method of cooling ; and the machinery for that purpose is now being made also in Montreal. B)/ Mr. McShane, Q. I would like to ask the Dairy Commissioner a tpiestion in reference to a state- ment of his reported in this morning's Citizen. He speaks of cattle Iteing shipped to Liverpool and lieing sold there as dressed beef, the freight, commission etc., amounting to SIo. 4.3 per head. On another shipment of ISO head, the expen.ses averaged 814.i)G. These steers. Professor Robert.son claims, would have netted .•?16 more jter head if slaughtered there and forwarded aa dressed beef. How do you make that out Professor Robertson ? Several manber,i : He has explained that twice. The Chaiuman. — Perhaps Prof. Robertson could repent his explanation. So far as I could learn, the explanation he has already given to the Committee was satisfactory. 44 MR. JAS. W. liOBEIiTSON. Prof. IIoberthov. — The statcinoiit in the Citizen wliile substantially the con- clusion T reached, does not give tlic facts, mentioned by lue, on which the conclusion was based. 1 did not intimate that anj' cattle shipped as dressed beef last yeai- would liaAc netted a higher price than the same cattle sliipped alive, if sold through the usual wholesale and retail s they should have been getting, because too large a share of the prices paid by the cons" • ing ' i '''asers has stayed in the tills of the retailors, or the middlemen, over in Giuat iJi'itain. It was to show a means whereby we could get a larger share, our rightful share of that, that I made the calculation I did. Bij Mr. FeatJierstoii : Q. Without making comparisons of live cattle and dres.sed cattle going into the wholesale market?— A. Not comparing them as carried on last year, but comparing the returns as obtained last year with the returns that might be expected through retail depots. Bi/ Mr. McShnne : Q. Are you aware that within the last four or five years there was hardly one man in the shipping business who has not been almost ruined ? Are you aware of the fact that the banks of our province, and of the Dominion, have lost over .$4,000,000 ? — A. I am aware of two things, from what has been told me. I am aware that shippers of cattle say that they have lost money. By Mr. Bnyil : Q. Tiiere are others who have made money '! — A. I am aware that the shippers claim that they have lost money. I am also aware of the fact that farmers have been getting lower prices than they should have been getting out of the amounts paid by the con- sumers of Canadian beef ; and so, if the siiippers have not been making money, the business has been done by somebody in such a way as to prevent our Canadian farmers from getting their share of the returns from the other side. The fact that the shippers have not been making money and our fanners have been getting loss than their rightful share, points to the need of a change in the manner of carrying on the business. By Mr. McMillan : Q. As a farmer, and one who ships his own cattle, I am under the impression that the shippers have given the fanners all they could give them. — A. You will permit me to make this further explanation. Nothing that I have said in the Committee, or in THE BRITISH MARKET FOR AXIMAL PRODUCTS. 45 advocating the scheme elsewhere, has ever hiiittnl that the shippers of Canadian cattle have been malting too much money. This sciieme, it put in operation, would help tlie slnppers to make money i)y giving them an alternative market for cattle. A member of the Imperial Parliament said, in my hearing, that one retail butcher had made a million dollars in five years out of retailing in his many shops American and Canadian beef a.s the " best English " or " best Scotch." The object of this plan for opening up a trade in dressed beef is that the enormous profits which have been staying over there in the tills of the merchants may come this way, and that the shippers may get their fair share of them. Having examined the preceding transcripts of my evidence of the iOth and 21st February, I find them correct. JAS. W. ROBEIITSON, Agricultural aiul Dairy Commissioner.