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The following diagrams illustrate the method: Les cartas, planches, tableaux, etc, peuvent Atre filmis A des taux da reduction diffArents, Lorsque le document est trop grand pour Atre reproduit en un seul clichA, il est filmi A partir de Tangle supArieur gauche, de gauche A droite, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'imagas nAcessaire, Les diagrammas suivants illustrent Ir mAthode. 32X 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 S 6 'm HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY COEEESPONDENCE BETWEEN HEE MAJESTY'S GOVEENMENT AND THE HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY. Jr^*\ Oi •>,/V •9/ / LONDON : PRINTED BY HENKY KENT CAUSTON & SON, I-AIJUBNCR POUNTNKY HILL, CANNON STllKKT. 1809, '" \ M"^' ri u / mm m , T-i-^- mL ^ Downing Street. Slst July, 1802. H. H. Berens, Esq., Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Newcastle to request that you will bring under the consideration of the Hudson's Bay Company the enclosed copy of a letter from Mr. Thomas Baring, M.P., and other gentlemen, relative to the formation of a Company, for the purpose of opening a route for Passenger Traffic and Telegi'aphic communication across the Continent of British North America to the British Colonies on the Pacific. His Grace, appreciating the importance of the scheme submitted to him, is disposed to give it every encourage- ment in his power, and for that purpose intends to invite the co-operation of the Covernments of Canada and British Columbia. As however the proposed communication could only be can'ied througli the Territory, over which tlic Hudson's Bay Company claims rights, his Grace, though not pennitting liimself to doubt from the tenor of your letter of the 10th May, tliat the Company would afford such facilities as are in their ])ower for co-o]iorating in this great ])nblic object, would novcirthelcsH b«i glad to learn diHtincily whether they would coiic^mIo a line of tcM'ritory to any C^n^|)liny. which A 2 282o0 .jmx men of such position and character as those who have siraed the enclosed letter might form for the purpose. His Grace is in coimnunication with Mr. Baring on the subject. I am, Sir, Yom* obedient servant, FREDERIC ROGERS. (Copy.) Mr. Thomas Baring and Others 1o ilw Duke of Newcastle. London, 5th July, 1862. My Lord, The growing interest felt by the commercial world in British Columbia and in the communications which commerce, as well as considerations of empire, require across the Continent of British North America, renders it, as it appears to us, opportune and desirable for some adequate organization to apply itself, under the sanction of Govern- ment, to the task of providing a telegraphic service, and of securing the means of travelling with regularity to the British Territory on the Pacific. Connected with a country so new and so vast, and as to which so little is popularly known, such an enterprise could only hope for success in the event of its being undertaken with the full approbation and support of Government. As a ])reliminary to any practical discussion of the quos- tion, it is d(>Hirablo to ascertain how far ITcr Majesty's .5 Government recognize the importance and desirability of such an enterprise, to be placed in proper hands, and also how far assistance would be given to aid in its prosecution. Parliament is naturally averse to the increase of the national burdens, and it 17 .ay be that a money grant might be out of the question : but, without adding to the expen- diture of the country, there are large resources available in the shape of Territory. Would, therefore, the Government, if approving such an attempt, be ready to gTant any sound and sufficient Company a considerable tract of land in aid to the construction of the means of conununication by Telegraph, and the provision of the means of transit across the Continent ? Knowing the interest which your Grace feels in the pro- gress of the British Empire in North America, we do not hesitate to call attention to the subject. We have, &c., THOMAS BARING. GEO. CAPtR GLYN. K. D. HODGSON. GEO. G. GLYN. R. W. CRAWFORD. WILLIAM CHAPMAN . To His Grace The Duke of Newcastle, K.G., ^c, &c., iScc. Hudson's Bay House, London, August Ist, 1802. His Grace The Duke of Newcastle, cVrc, &c., &v My Lord Diiko, 1 have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of Sir Frederic Rogere' letter dated tiie VAal ultimo, transmitting 6 by your Grace's directions copy of a letter from Mr. Thomas Baring, M.P., and other gentlemen, relative to the formation of a Company for the pmT^)ose of opening a route for Pas- senger Traffic and Telegraphic communication across the Continent of British North America to the British Colonies on the Pacific. In reply I beg to assure your Grace that I shall take immediate steps to bring your Grace's commmiication under the notice of my colleagues, who I feel confident will give the important subject to which it refers every consideration. I have tho honor to be, My Lord Duke, Your Grace's most obedient humble servant, H. H. BERENS, Governor, Huuhon'8 Bay House, Loridon, 11th August, 1862. His Grace The Duke oa' Newcastle, K.G., &c., &c. My Lord Duke, I have comnmnicated with my colleagues in the Direction of the Hudson's Bay Company on the subject of your Grace's letter of the 31st July, of which I had tho honor to acknowledge the receipt on the 1st instant. They direct me to assure your Grace of their readiness to co-()[)erate with Her Majesty's Government in any measures they may be i)leaBed to reconnnend for the improvement of the communication across the Territory of the Company, and l'>v the settlunient of the country, [)rovidcd always they '$ are not required to advance the capital of their constituents in aid of speculations, projected by other persons, of the success of which the projectors are the most competent judges. The Directors of the Hudson's Bay Company will have no objection to make such free grant of land to any Associa- tion, of which the gentlemen who have made the application to your Grace, by their letter of the 5th July, are the responsible Directors, as may reasonably be required for effecting the proposed communication, on the sole condition, that adequate seciu'ity is taken for the establishment and completion of a suflBcient road for passenger traffic and telegraphic communication across the Continent. I have the honor to be, My Lord Duke, Yom' Jrace's most obedient humble servant, H. H. BERENS, Governor. Downing Street, 28th August, 1862. H. H. Berens, Esq., Sir, Your letter of the 11th inst. has been laid before the Duke of Newcastle, and his Grace requests that you will express to your colleagues in the management of the Hud- son's Bay Company his gratification at their readiness to make a grant of land to the promoters of the contemplated undertaking of a passenger and telegraphic communication between Canada and British Columbia. It will be obvious to you that the means of any Association, which may be m- 8 formed to effect this great design, must depend upon the extent of the proposed concession. His Grace, therefore, directs me to ask you to have the goodness to state what breadth of land the Governors of the Hudson's Bay Company are willing to grant for this purpose. I am, Sir, Your obedient servant, FREDERIC ROGERS. 1 i HuDS0x\'s Bay House, London, 5th September, 1862. His Grace The Duke of N ewcastle, &c., &c., &c. My Lord Duke, I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of Sir Frederic Rogers' letter of the 28th August, and am pleased to observe that yom' Grace is satisfied by the readiness of this Company to meet the views of Her Majesty's Govern- ment, in reference to the contemplated communication between Canada and British Columbia. In reply to your enquiry as to the breadth of land the Hudson's Bay Com- pany are willing to grant for the pm-pose of the undertaking, I beg to say that, being in utter ignorance of the sort of route projected, and in the absence of any communication from the promoters of the undertaking, it is impossible for me to state to what extent the gi-ant would amount. I have the honor to be, My Lord Duke, Your Grace's most obedient humble servant, H. H. BERENS, (Jovernor. \ •■ j? 9 Downing Street, 2l£t November, 1802. II. H. Berens, Esq., Hudson's Bay Company. Sir, With refe ence to your interview with the Duke of Newcastle on the 18th instant upon the subject of a proposed postal and telegi-aphic route from the Canadian frontier to that of British Columbia, at which his Grace understood you to express the willingness of the Hudson's Bay Company to enter into personal communication with some of the T;entlemen, who are desirous, under certain conditions, of undertaking this scheme, and to confer with them either upon the basis of forming a road through the country comprised in the Charter of your Company, or upon that of the purchase of the whole of the Company's rights, I am directed by his Grace to infrom you that he has to-day seen a Deputation of the gentlemen referred to, and they on their part expressed their readiness to attend the proposed Meeting. The Duke of Newcastle thinks that it would be desirable that you should now arrange an interview either with Mr. Thomas Baring or with Mr. Edward Watkin, and as it is evident that, with a view to any consideration of the second proposal, it would be necessary that some details of the property to be sold should be laid before the intended purchasers, he liopos that the Company will be good enough to autliorisc such information to be given as may be neces- sary and as may not be detrimental to their own interests. I am, Sir, Your most obedient servant, T. FKEDK. ELLIOT, 10 Downing Street, 1st May, 1863. "I H. H. Berens, Esq., Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Newcastle to enclose the heads of a proposal made to me by Mr. Watkin acting on belialf of the " Atlantic and Pacific Transit and Tele- graph Company," with a view to the establishment of Telegraphic and Postal conmiunication fi'om Lake Superior to New Westminster. With reference to your letters to this Office of 11th August and 5th September last, I am to call your attention to the a^'ticle numbered 1 in this paper, and to request that you will inform his Grace whether this clause expresses correctly the concessions which the Hudson's Bay Company is prepared to make to the proposed Company. I am. Sir, Your obedient servant, C. FOKTKJSOUE. Ilvtdh of Projioml for vslahlixhinti Tvh'firnphie and Postnl Commiinical ion from Lake Siqwrior to New Wesfmintiter. The '* Atlimtic ami I'm-ific Transit and TeU'gniph Com- piuiy" propose to estabiisli and maintain communication by -■^ 11 Electrio Telegraph and a Mail Post, passing at such inter- vals, fortnightly or otherwise, as shall be agreed upon, between a point at the head of Lake Superior and New Westminster in British Columbia on the following terms. 1. That the Imperial Government, the Colonies of Canada and British Columbia, and the Hudson's Bay Company shall each, within the Territories belonging to them, grant to the Company such land belonging to the Crown or Company and all such rights as may be required for the Post Route, Telegraph and necessary Stations, and for the proper working thereof. 2. The Tjine of Telegraph shall be divided into jjroper sections, and so soon as telegraphic communication is esta- blished throughout any such section, the Colonies of Canada, Vancouver Island and British Columbia will guarantee to the Company a rate of profit on the capital expended at the rate of not less than 1 nor more than 5 per cent., provided that the total amount of the Ca})ital guaranteed shall be limited at £500,000, and that the total annual payment to be made by Vaiutouver Island and British (Ntlnnibia together, shall nctt exceed £12,500. Provided iilso, tiiat the interest accruing upon the money paid up by the Shareholders, until the above guarantee shall take effect, shall be reckoned as capital, and [U'ovided further that in case the Telegraphic T^ine shall not be completed within five yciu's, nnlesH by reason oi' war or commotion, or of any inlerrnption not arising from any wilf'nl denmlt of t'le (^>mpany, the above guarantee shall be suspended till the line sliull be so completed. 11 . 1 \' 12 3. In case the route shall run through Cro^\^l Land not Avithin the limits of Canada or British Columbia nor within the Territory claimable by the Hudson's Bay Company, the Company shall be entitled to demand Crown grants to the extent of five square miles for every mile of Telegraph Lino within such CroAvn Land, such grants shall be demandable 80 soon as the Telegi'aph communication shall be completed across such Crown Lam and the blocks granted shall be adjacent to the Telegi'aph Line, and shall be as near as may be five miles square and shall alternate on each side of the line, with blocks of similar size and frontage, which shall i-emain in the possession of the Crown. The Company is not to sell this land except under effectual conditions of settle- ment, and in case the undertaking shall be permanently abandoned, the land, not so sold, is to revert to the Crown. 4. The Company shall not dispose of the Telegraph without the consent of tlie Imperial Govemment. 5. Tlie Colonial Governments, within their respective Ihnits, or the Imperial Government in any part of the Line, may at any time take tenqxmiry posFossion of the Telegra])h Line, in case the })ublic interest rc(|nire8 it, on payment of a rate of compensation to be lieivaller ngi'ced, and govern- ment mesKages shall at ail times when demanded liave l)riorily over all others. (J. Tlie Home (Jovcrnment willi tlie consent of the parties will introduce into Parliament such measures as nuiy I .) recpiisite to give effect to this ]>ro])OHal. 7. Tlie Telegrajih and Woiks, and the Servants and AgeniK (>r tlie (Vunjuuiy, shall be considered as under the 't 13 protection of the Crown and of the Colonial Governments as fully as if in the settled districts of British North America. 8. The Company and' its Works shall be exempt from all taxation for a period of 30 years. 9. Any further matters of detail, or questions of differ- ence, requiring discussion, to be remitted to the sole decision of his Grace the Duke of Newcastle, Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies. Hudson's Ray FIousk, Loudon, May Otli, 18013. IT is Gnice Tlie Duke of Newcastle, K.G., &c., &c., &c. My Lord Duke, I luivc the honor to acknowledge tlio receipt of Mr. TTnder Secretary Fortescue's letter of the Ist iustaut, enclosing the heads of a pro])OHal from the Atlantic and l\u'ific 'I'ransit and M'elegra])!! (\)nii)any, in reference to tho establishment of "JVlegraphic and Postal comnmnication from Lake Superior to New Westminster. Ilelerring to the article numbered I in this pa[)er I beg to state that, so far us this Com})auy is concenied, wo shall bo prepared to grant such ])ortion of land within the Territorios belonging to us as may reasonably be i'('(|uired for the pni'poHe of tho proposed Post Route, Tiilegraph and neees- sury stations. As to any otlun* rights, which the ('ouij)aiiy 14 may require for the proper working of their undertaking, wo presume the grant of these would rest with Her Majesty's Government. We of course assume that Her Majesty's Government does not assent to the application, now made to them, unless they are satisfied with the intentions and ability of the parties to carry out the project, but of course should it ultimately be abandoned, the land given up by this Com- jiany will revert to them. I have the honor to be, My Lord Duke, Your Grace's most obedient humble servant, H. H. BEIIENS, Governor. I I ■■•s Hudhon's Bay Hoitsk, London, .Fune Ifitli, IHCui. ITis Craco The Duke of Newcartlk, ifcc, &c., &i\ My Lord Duke, With reference to Mr Elliot's letter of the 2lHt November lust, Gxpressing your Gra(!o's desire that this lioard should ])hu'e itHeH'iii ('oiniiiiiiiiciilion with Mi'. Kidwanl VVatkiii wilii a view to tlie ((tiisidcrntioii of proposiils for the purchiise of tlie whole ol' the rights of the Ihidsoirw Hay (^)lll))aMy, I iiave now the honor lo itifonn your (}riu'e that, in coiiiplianeo witli your Grace's suggestion, terms have been 15 agreed upon by which the whole interests of the Hudson's Bay Company are to be transferred to the parties represented by Mr. Edward Watkin. I have the honor to >o, My Lord Duke, Your Grace's most obedient servant, H. H. BERENS, Goveraor. Hudson's Bay House, London, July 8rd, 18G:^. His Grace The Duke of Newcastle, K.G., &c., iSrc, i^'c. My Lord Duke, I think it right to inform Your Grace tliat 1 was yesterday elected Governor of tlic Hudson's Bay Company under the following circumstances. A large majority of the Proprietors of tlie Hudson's Bay Com])any have disposed of their shares to tlie rntcrnatioual Financial Association, Limited, which has found the money for completing at once so important a purchase, without delay or obstacle. Tliis transfer coukl only have been efl'ectcd by this pro- cess, wln"ch was a matter of difliculty on iwcount of tlie largo sum recpiired to be piiid down at once. The Associution arc al)ont to re-issnc the sIiarcR thus transferred to a new body of jn'oprietors, who are to carry on the present trade of Ihc CN>nipany nnder the charter* /' 16 I whilst they will, it is hoped, administer its affairs on such principles as to allow the gradual settlement of such portions of the Territory as admit of it, and facilitate the commu- nication across British North America by telegi'aph or otherwise. The Governor and the greater part of the Committee or governing body of the Hudson's Bay Company having thus disposed of their interest in the Comp? ^v, the re-organiza- tion of that body has become necessary; and accordingly a new Committee has been formed, comprising some mem- bers of the former body joined with a number of gentlemen of high standing in the City of London, under a new Governor and Deputy-Governor. The latter and the Com- mittee have this day been sworn in by me, after a Court of Proprietors had been held for the purpose of making certain changes in the Bye Laws. The majority of the Proprietors, present at this Coui't, were persons who have held stock in the Company up to the present time, and the transfers are only effected as proprietors call and ask for the Cheques in exchange for their Stock. I enclose for your Grace's information a copy of the Prospectus, this day circulated by the International Finan- cial Society, and I hoi)e soon to bo able to communicate with you on the subject of the steps wliich it may be ncccssaiy to take for attaining some of the objects therein referred to. 1 have the honor to be, Youi' (Irjice's most obedient servant, K DM UN I) IIKAl). 17 Hudson's Bay House, London, July 6th, 1863. His Grace The Duke of Newcastle, K.G., &c., &c., &c. My Lord Duke, In my letter of the 3rd instant, I intimated a hope that I should have to communicate again with your Grace shortly. Accordingly I have now the honor to enclose a copy of a Minute this day passed at a Meeting of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company. I am, Your Grace's obedient servant, EDMUND HEAD. Copy of Minute referrtil to. " Ordered. — That Mr. Edwai'd Watkin be authorised to " proceed to the Red River Settlement without delay, for the " purpose of reporting on the condition of the Settlement, " the condition of the neighbouring Territory, the prospects " of the Settlement therein, and the possibility of commcn- " cing operations for the Telegraph Line across the Southern " District of Rupert's Land. That, lookhig to the lateness "of the season, it will be impossible iIj Mr. Watkin to do " more at present than make preliminary enquiries on those *' subjects, with a view to a more exact and complete exami- " nation of them next Spring. That Governor Dallas and " Chief Factor William Mactavish be informed of Mr. Wat- " kin's employment, and that the former be associated with " Mr. Watkin in all these enquiries.'' n 18 " Resolved. — That the Governor be authorised to com- " municate a copy of this Minute to his Grace the Duke of " Newcastle." Downing Street. 18th July, 1863. The Right Honorable Sir Edmund Head. Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Newcastle to transmit to you for your information a copy of a Report of the Law Officers of the Crown containing their opinion on the legality of the transfers of the shares in the Hudson's Bay Company, and of the re-organization of the Directorate of that Company. I am. Sir, •' Your most obedient servant, FEEDERIC ROGERS. :J TjAw Offtcerr /o The Duke of Newcastle. Temple, July 9th, 1803. II is Grace The Duke of Newcastle, K.G. My Lord Duke, We are honored with your Grace's command, signified in Sir Frederic Rogers' letter of tlie 7tli July instant, stating that he was directed by your Grace to request tliut we would favor you with our ()})ini()n on certain questions which have arisen with reference to the operations of the Hudson's IJuy Company. 19 to com- Duke of SET. 1863. transmit bhe Law on the m's Bay iorate of ERS. LE, 1803. u.u;nified iiiRtanl., .>Ht tlmt ii(;Htiuiis I of the 1 may ted into the Company. Sir Frederic Rogers was pleased to enclose a copy of the Pp. 547 of 1842 Charter of the Company, and to direct our attention to that ' p. 8. provision which enables tlic Governor and Company or the may i.c^aclmit- greater part of them, to admit into the Company such servants or Factors, and " all such others as to them or the " most part of them shall be thought fit and agreeable with " the Orders and Ordinances made or to be made for govem- " ment of the said Company." Sir Frederic Roprers was also pleased to state that it has been the practice of the Shareholders (probably under the provision above referred to) to sell and transfer their stock in the Company without impediment. That negotiations have recently taken place with the object of enlarging the operations of the Company ; the re- sult of which has been that the majority of the Proprietors have sold their stock, whicli has accordingly been transferred to new hands — tlie nominees, it is believed of a Society (the International Financial Society) which has advanced the purchase-money. As part of the transaction, the then Governor and Directors parted with so much of their Stock s to disqualify themselves for their Offices, and thus becom- hig mere Shareholders, they, in conjunction with other Shareholders, elected a new Board with a Governor and Deputy-Governor. It may be assumed for the present pur- pose that the Rules of the Company respecting such elec- tions were duly observed. That under tliis now Board tlie new Sharelioklcrs propose to extend the opcrii.i is of the Company to a variety of objects, indicated in the annexed Prospectus, which was issued by authority or with the sanction of the new Board. B 2 Jl ,,f 20 That your Grrace desired to know whether in the state of facts here described, there is any ground for doubting the legality of the transfers of shares which have taken place, or the legality of the reorganization of the Directorate of the Hudson's Bay Company, or for doubting the competency of that Directorate to carry on the affairs of the Company. Sir Frederick Rogers was further pleased to state that we would doubtless observe that throughout these transactions the Hudson's Bay Company has not acted as a corporate body, but that the body of the Proprietors has been altered by individual sales of Stock and the Directorate changed by the disqualification of almost all of the old Directors and the election of new ones. In obedience to your Grace's commands, we have taken this matter into consideration, and have the honour to report : — That, in our opinion, there is no gTOund shewn for doubt- ing the legality of the transfers of shares in the Hudson's Bay Company which have taken place, or the legality of the reorganization of the Directorate of that Company, or for doubting the competency in law of the present Board of Directors to carry on the affairs of the Company. We have, &c., W. ATHERTON". liOUNDELL PALMER. ■fjt M Hudson's Bay Houhe, Lond.3. niatiou of the Duke of Newcastle, a copy of a Resolution this day passed by the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company, which was specially summoned by me to consider this subject. I shall be happy to place myself in communication with you, if his Grace the Duke of Newcastle is pleased to enter- tain the proposal of the Committee. I am, Sir, Your obedient servant, ' EDMUND HEAD. u Copy Resolution. " Read — Report of Governor Dallas and other papers re- lating to the Red River Settlement. " Resolved — That the time has come when, in the opinion of this Committee, it is expedient that the autho- rity executive and judicial over the Red River Settlement ,^^^. and the South-Western portion of Rupert's Land should ySl^ be vested in officers deriving such authority directly from iyf/t j the Crown and exercising it in the name of Her Majesty. ' " That the Governor be empowered to communicate this Resolution to His Grace the Duke of Newcastle and to discuss the subject with him, or with the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, reporting from time to time to this Committee thereon." Downing Street, 9th October, 1863. The Riglit Honorable Sir E. W. Head, Bart. Sir, With reference to ^our letter of the 28th of iaammt 1 M N "i 1 oo August, and to the oral communication which have since passed, with respect to the expediency of placing the Southern portion of Rupert's Land under the direct Govern- ment of the Crown, I am directed by the Duke of Newcastle to inform you that His Grace is fully alive to the advantages which might be expected from such a transfer, and will not fail to give his best attention to any proposal on that sub- ject which you may be authorised to make on the part of the Hudson's Bay Company. 1 am. Sir, Your most obedient servant, FREDEEIC ROGERS. Hudson's Bay House, London, November 11th, 1863. Sir ^REDEBic Rogers, Bart., Sir, I have the honour to acknowledge your letter of the 9th ultimo, in which you state that His Grace tlie Duke of Newcastle will be ready to consider any proposal submitted to him by the Hudson's Bay Company with reference to the introduction of the direct authority of Her Majesty's Govern- ment in Rupert's Land. It is gi-atifying to myself and the Committee to find that an opening is thijs afforded for discussing plans which, to us, appear to have an important bearing on the future welfare of British North America. At the same time, in order to avoid all misapprthension, it may be right to observe that it is not precisely as a boon to themselves that the Hudson's Bay Company have called "r 23 have since acing the 3fc Govern- Newcastle advantages id will not that sub- he part of ^ERS. h, 1863. r letter of tlic Duke submitted nee to the 's Govern- f and the brded for important lerica. it'hcnsion, IS a boon ive called m His Grace's attention to the establishment of a Colony at Red River. Probably their commercial interest would be equally served if things remained as they are, and if their trade were carried on as it has been. It is not, at any rate, with a view to immediate pecuniary profit that they have raised this question, and it is likely, for the present at least, that they would lose fully as much as they would gain by the increase of settlement in the Chartered Territory. Such appears to have been the unvarying opinion of this Com- mittee before the change made in July last. It may, no doubt, be said that the Hudson's Bay Company are merely endeavouring to escape from the troublesome responsibility of governing the Red River Settlement and the adjacent district. ^ In answer to this I would observe that the responsibility, whatever it may be, which is imposed by the Charter on the Company, must be correlative with the riglits and powers vested in them for the purpose of discharging that duty. What these rights and powers are not, is pretty clear from the following passage in the letter of the Law Officers of the Crown, dated July 1, 1857. [Ajppmdix to Report of Com- mittee, p. 404.] These gentlemen say — _ " But with respect to any right of government, taxation, " exclusive administration of justice, or exclusive trade, *' otherwise than as a consequence of the right of ownership " of the land, such right could not be legally insisted on by " the Hudson's Bay Company as having been legally gi'anted " to them by the Crown." The power of taxation may be thought to be tlic first and 24 necessary condition of all effective powers of Government, but if this first condition is wanting, it would seem to follow that the power vested in the Company of governing others than their own servants and dependents nmst be of a very limited character ; and if the power is limited, so also must the responsibility be limited. The Company arc fully competent to manage their own people, and they believe that they have proved themselves more competent to manage the Indians than any Government or Association, which has yet tried its hand at this task in North America. They have preserved peace and goodwill on one side of a frontier when war and savage hatred have raged on the other. They have done so, no doubt, from interested motives, but the motives of those, who have failed in accomplishing the same task, have perhaps not been more pure. In tlio present case the question at issue is not the Government of the Hudson's Bay Oificers and Servants, or of the Indians, but the exercise of proper authority and protection over those subjects of Her Majesty mostly uncon- nected with the Company, who have chosen to settle at lied lliver, or may hereafter settle in the adjoining territory. These considerations, tlien, and the future position of British interests in North America (in which, no doubt, the Hudson's Bay Company are deeply interested)^ not the liopo of immediate advantage, have induced the present Committee to express, as they have done in their resolution of the 28tli August lust, the conviction that the time had an'ived for introducing into these regions the direct authority of tlie Crown. I have to assure his Grace that the Committee will esteem nent, but ;o follow ig others )f a very ilso muBt tieir own lemselves vemment 8 task in goodwill ired have ibt, from ive failed >ecn more not the rvants, or [)rity and ly uncon- blc at Red territory, of British Dubt, the ) the liopo yommitteo the 2«th Tivod for ty of the ill cstociu themselves fortunate if they are able to co-operate with him in the establishment there of such a Government as he may deem best fitted for the wants of the people and the circum- stances of the time. I have had the honour of several conversations with you on this subject, from which I infer that the Secretary of State is unwilling to deal with the qi^estion of establishing a Colonial Government in Rupert's Land so long as the Company maintain unimpaired their claim to the exclusive ownership of the soil within that Territory. It is not for me or the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company to discuss the reason for such a view. We certainly assume that the Company arc proprietors of land under the Charter, and we think that this primd facie title is impliedly recog- nized in the letter of the Law Officers of July 1st, 1857, already quoted. No one has contested in a Court of any kind a possession which has existed for 200 years, and the Committee do not themselves clearly see why the exercise of this private right of ownership of the soil by individuals, or by a corporate body, should be deemed incompatible with the exercise of the Queen's public autliority in matters of Government. They do not see why that whicli is the normal state of things in most other Colonies should be inadmissible in this particular portion of British North America; but it is not their business to enter into this question. They are anxious to do all they can to smooth over difficulties rather than raise tliem, and 1 will therefore ])roceed to consider what would probably be tlie nature of the Territory to be included in any sucli Colony, and wlisit are the metiHures wliicli tlie Hudson's Bay Company would be prci)ared to take in order to facilitate its establishment, ^Jt^fffT-vr-T-" w 26 It will bo for His Grace the Duke of Newcastle to decide whether the sacrifices they are ready to make are of a nature to wan*aiit any action on the part of the Crown. AVith regard to the extent of the proposed Colony, of which the scat of Government would be Red River or Fort GaiTy, the Committee presume that His Grace would wish it to include the Avhole country from the Frontier of tlie United States to the North branch of the Saskatche- wan, and to extend eastward towards Lake Superior, as far ns the Frontier of Canada, wherever the precise line of that Frontier may be found. Perhaps the most convenient limit for the Northern boundary would be cither the Saskatche- wan itself or a line running from the Rocky M)untains eastward through Edmonton House and Fort Cumberland, and from the latter, following the Saskatchewan down to Lake Winnipeg. Nothing would be gained by going further to the northward nor bv including the eastern side of Lake AVinnipeg, but from tlio mouth of the AViiniipeg River,- where it enters the Lake, the lino of demarcation might be .' run eastward until it cut the Canadian Frontier somuwhero north of Lake Superior or Lake Huron. Of this largo tract Assiniboia or tLe district round Rod River i'orms but a small portion, although it includes a good dciil of the land which is ])robably fittest for sotth'inent. In 18;M tlie Hudson's Hay Conijiany reimrchased this district IVom Tiord Selkirk for a consideration estimated at upwards of .£80,000. This fact alone makes it clear that it would bo impossible for tlie (\anmittee, aw TruHtccs for the Company, to cntcrtiiin the (|Uestion of ceding the ownershij) (tf the soil without compensation or eipiivalent of some kind. 37 I 1 ■i The most obvious, Bimplo, iind satisfactory settleiiieut of the question of transfer would, of course, be tliat the CroAvn should compensate the Company for their property by a sum of money paid, either at once or in a series of annual payments. But to the supposed value of the soil would have to be added the price of the Comjiany's interest in all mines of j^old and silver, which are by express words jjiven in the Charter. Tt is clear that the recent discovery of gold in the Territory would cause the proprietary of the Hudson's Bay Company to regret any bargain which implied the gratuitous cession of these rights. The Committee would be quite willing that the exact amount to be paid to the Hudson's Bay Company for the land should be calculated on the principle of what they themselves paid to Lord Selkirk for a portion of it, and they would be jn'cpared to discuss the fair worth both of territory and mining rights, or to submit the assessment of their value to impartial arbitrators. But the Committee also knvAv thnt the Hecrctary of State may find dilliculties in the way of a large money payment of any kind, and in order, as far as they caii, to remove all obstacles to this negotiation, they have authorized me to projiose another alternative, as a nuMdle conrse, which they think Avould be adniisHible, ahliougli far from welcome to many of their own proprietors. This alternative is an follows, viz.: — Tiiut, subject to certain s})eeiMl slipuluiions to be slnted hcreiifter, the Com- l)any shonhl rcluin (he ownershi]) in fee simple of one-half of (he iaiKls in the; (^•lony, and Ihc other half Hlion'd ])o i'onve)ed hv i\\v Company (o the (Vown. Tiic actual division sliouKI i)e one based on considerutioiis of the extent i 28 and value of different sections us derived from situation and climate. The details might be settled afterwards, if the principle wer6 once admitted. In the portion fitted for settlement, and along the frontier, the division might be made at once in alternate blocks of so many thousand acres, or so many square miles. In the unsettled and remote portion of the country the division might stand over indefi- nitely, provided a power was given to either party to initiate proceedings against squatters and trespassers. The undi- vided lands might be managed by a Board of Commissioners. The stipulations, of which I have spoken, and which, it appears to the Committee, would be reasonable, are as follows : — 1st. The Hudson's Bay Company should have the sole right to erect and should bind themselves to complete within five years an Electric Telegraph to connect British Columbia and Canada. The line for this Telegraph should be approved by the Secretary of State, and it should be maintained by the Company, who would, of course, engage to convey the messages of the Imperial and Colonial Govern- ments at a fixed and moderate rate. It would be necessary as conditions precedent to the erec- tion of the Telegrnph — (a) That the Governments of British Cohnnbia and Canada should pledge their faith respectively to the Secretary of State to pay the yearly sum set fortli in the enclosures to the despatch of the Ist May, 18(33, with all advantages as to lands to be granted by Jler Majesty's (loveriuuent, and on iiie terms tl»ereiii specified, (h) That a mad should ]»o laid out iiloug the line of Telegraph, but the soil on which the Telegraph stands, and 29 the space, (say) one mile in width on one side of its course should belong to the Hudson's Bay Company, to be reckoned as part of the half of the land which they would retain. The other side of the road might be included in the half belonging to the Crown. (c) That the Company, in constructing the Telegraph, should be entitled to use wood or other materials taken from ungranted land. 2. The Crown shall resmnc the grant of mines or diggings of gold and silver throughout the Colony, on conditicm of paying to the Hudson's Bay Company one-third of the receipts of all dues, royalties, rents, rtion8 of retain as leir posts ) with. iiph, it is Liuce of a B now, or tendency liny other )H Ibr the , and we ure winter 41 begms early and lasts till late, a season lost is the loss of the whole year. I trust, Sir, that in laying these remarks before His C'^'ace the Secretary of State, you will assure Km. that they are offered with great humility and respect, and that wo are as ready as we ever were, to deal in a fair and candid spirit with this or any other offer made to us. So far as the proposal itself goes, and iiTespectivo of this question of title, the Committee rejects no basis of negotiation (if that is a proper word to use in a correspondence between a private Company and Her Majesty's Government), and what they have said is dictated only by a sense of the duty incum- bent on them to uphold the interests of the Company whose affak's they administer. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD, Oovcmor. Downing Street, 14th March, 18G4 The Right Honorable Sir Edmund Head, Bart., &Cj &c., &c. Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Newcastle to trans- mit to you, ft)r any obsorval iouH wliich you may liave to offer U[Hm it, tlio cnch)8cd extract IVuni a Minute of tlio Eiecutivo Council of Canada, m*ging the expediency of 42 *v\f nnrjMr.m hf:'m% taken for «/-ittIing definitely the Xonh- M(MU:n\ F/yuridary of the Province. I am, Hir, Yonr obedient Scirant, C. FORTESCUE. 'f Eflrad of a Rcpnrl of a Commiltee of tho Honorable tim KfMvUm (lonncll, approved hij Ilh ExcpMmcy tJw Ouocrnor (Jc/ncrai on Ilis IHlh Fehniary, 1804. " Tlio (!()iiiniiU,oo are of opinion that, in view of tho " ro('(!iit ('linn^^(! ill tli(! (ionstitiiticn and objects of the " lliidHnirH |{n.y Conipiuiy, whicli, from the corrcBpondcnco " Itiid hduni liui lloiiw! of Jiordu, appears to have been " cH'ccIimI ; mid tlio clairaH which tho new organization havo " rcilcrutod with tho ii|)])arent wmction of His Grace tho " DiiUo of Ni'wciiHth^ to territorial ri^lits over a vast rcj^ion " jiot iiichidcd ill their oriuiiial Clmrtor, it is hiji^hly cxpe- *' diciit (lint sleeps be liikcn to settle dclhiitively the North' •* AVcslcrii Boundary of (\uuida. '• IMic (\Miiiiiittce, tlicrcfore, recommend that corrcspond- *• eneo lie opened witli the ImperiaMiovernment with the " view lo llu» adoption of some speedy, inex})en8ive, and " mutiially satisfm-tory plan to detennine this iiuiKirtant " qnestion, and tliat tho claim of CiUiada l>e asserted to all " (hut jHU'tion of Central British xVmerica, which can bo ** Biiown to hrtve Ikhjh in tiie }H)sscs8iou of the Freucb at the *' i>eriod of the oo«*iou iu 1703." ■$t ; Xonh- CUE. rahle tlie 'ency tlm iv of tho a of tho ipondcnco avc been tion liavo irnco tho ist region :l»ly expc- 10 North- 43 Hudson's Bay House, London, March 15th, 1801. Chichester Foutescue, Esq., &c,, &c., &c. Sir, I havo tho honor to ncknowlodg'o yonr letter of March 14th, and to thank you for tho copy of a ^[inute of the Canadian Council contained therein. My letter, dated this day, contains in fact the observations of tlio Cominittco on tho claim contained in such Minute — whi(;h appears to tho Committco to go far beyond a mere cpiestion of " boundaries." I havo the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD, Governor. Downing Strket, 15th Marcli, 1804. E. W. Watkin, Esq., Sir, With roferenco to previous corrcspondenco, I am directed by tho Duko of Newcastle to submit to you an extract from a Minuto of tho Kxecntivo Council ol' Canada on the subject of tho proposals of the Atlantic; and I'acilic Telef(r;!])h Company on whieii His ({race would ho j^Mad to rocoivo any obKorvations, which you and tho gentlemen associtttod with you may havo to oilbr, I am, Sir, Your obedient Servant, a FOKTESaUE. 'th February, 1864. " The Committee of the Executive Comicil have had " mider consideration a despatch No. 49 from His Grace " the Duke of Newcastle, dated lit May, 1863, with " enclosures, on the subject of a proposal of the * Atlantic " * and Pacific Transit and Telegraph Company,* to establish " telegraphic and postal communication from Lake Superior " to New "Westminster, in British Columbia. The Com- " mittce have also had communication of certain corrci pond- " ence laid before the House of Lords by the Imperial " Government, in answer to an address, dated the 2nd of *' July; 1863, which has an important bearing on the project " refciTcd to in His Grace's despatch, " The Atlantic and Pacific Transit and Telegraph Com- pany appears to have been organized by certain influential caj^ntalists in London, in consequence of interviews and discussions which took place between them and Messrs. Siccotto and Ilowland on the occasion of their visit to England in December, 1862, as Canadian Delegates in the matter of the Inter-Colonial Railway. The proposition of Messrs. Siccotte and Howland was for ' the construction ' of a telegraph lino and of a road to establish more * frequent and easy communication between Canada and * the Pacific, and to facilitate the carrying of mails, pas- * scugcrs, and traffic,* wliich they thought would bo highly favorable to the settlement of an immense territory, and also of * great advantage to the trade of England.' They expressed their opinion to the gentlemen proposing to form a Company to construct tho work, that the Canadiuu « a (< u « <( (< « « (I « (( (< (( (< 45 rablo the ency the lave had [is Grace 63, with ' Atlantic establish I Superior ?he Com- rrci pond- Imperial 10 2nd of tie projccfc aph Com- [nflucntial aews and 1 Messrs. r visit to tes in the reposition istruction ish moro nada and lails, pas- bo highly tory, and li; They hosing to Canadian ■1 ^i t 1 " Government would agree to give a guai'anCeo of interest at " the rate of 4 per cent, upon one-third of the sum expended, " provided the whole sum did not exceed * five hundred " * thousand pounds, and provided also that the same " * guarantee of interest will be secured on the other two- " * thirds of the expenditure by Imperial or Columbian " ' contributions.' At a subsequent stage of the negotiations " Messrs. Siccotte and Howland, though unwilling to believe " that H.M.'s Government would not accede to the proposal " of co-operation, expressed their opinion that the Canadian " Government would grant to a Coni^ any, organized as " proposed, a ' guarantee of interest even on one-half of the " ' capital stated' — should the Imperial Government refuse " to contribute, but they declared they would not advise or " press with their colleagues a higher rate of interest than '* 4 per cent. These gentlemen were therefore of opinion " that to secure the object they had mentioned, viz. : — * a " ' telegraph line and a road to establish more frequent and " * easy communication between Canada and the Pacific, and " * to faciUtate the canning of mails, passengers, and traffic,' " the GoveiTiment of Canada would l)o willing to contribute " an annual aid or subsidy of not more than ten thousand pounds (£10,000). The Canadian Delegates did not, in ** the opinion of the Committee, over-estimate the importance of the objects stated, nor the willingness of the Canadian " people to grnnt pecuniary aid in order to secure them. " But the Committee observe that the * Heads of proposal,' " submitted by Mr. Watkin on behalf of the * Atlantic and racifie Transit and Teh^graph Company,' and enclosed to Your Excellency by His (baee the Dnko of Newcastle, are for a Jim of ivkgraph ouhj. It is true that in the preamble of the document ' a mail post' is nienlione*], and II i( « < (( ■ i ' }',» 46 "in the first 'Head' it is Stipulated th the Imperial "Government, the Colonies, and the Hudbo, s Bay Com- " pany, shall each grant ' land ' and ' all such rights ' as may " be required for the * post route, telegraph, and necessary " ' stations,' but the Company do not propose or agree to " construct anythmg but a * line of telegraph.' The road " contemplated by Messrs. Siccotte and Rowland to facilitate " the canying of mails, passengers, and traffic, is not pro- " vided for in any of the ' Heads of proposal.' " It is proposed in the second * Head ' that the line of " Telegraph shall be divided into sections, and so soon as " telegraphic communication shall be established throughout " any such section, the Colonies of Canada, &c., will guaran- " tee to the Company a rate of profit on the capital expended " of ' not less than four nor more than five per cent.,' the "total capital guaranteed being limited to £500,000. " Canada might thus be called upon to pay interest on " the cost of sections of a Telegraphic Line wholly without " her Territory, and having no connection with any line " witliin it. " The Committee notice also that in the observations of "His Grace the Duke of Newcastle on the 'Heads of " proposal,' submitted by Mr. Watkin, and which observar " tions are transmitted to Your Excellency for the infonna- " tion of the Canadian Goverimient, * the construction of a " * Road to facilitate the canying of mails, passengers, and " * traffic ' seems not to bo contemplated. The Committee " further obsorve tliat, while H' . Grace speaks of the benefit " which the Colonies are to receive as that of * direct tele- " ' graphic coimnunicatiou ' merely, he declares that ' the 47 ({ ( <( < « ( commencement of the undertaking must depend on the willingness of the Canadian Government and Legislature to complete telegraphic communication from the seat of " ' Govenmient to the point on Lake Superior at which the" "'Company will take it up,' a condition which would " involve the construction and maintenance by Canada, at " her own cost, of several hundred miles of telegraph Ime " through a wilderness. " The Committee have not been able to persuade them- " selves that the people of Canada would be likely to receive *' any benefits corresponding to the cost of constructing a line " of Telegraph from the seat of Government to the head of *' Lake Superior, and guaranteeing half the interest of the " cost of constructing a line from that point to the Pacific "Coast, unless, at the same time, the fertile valleys and "plains of the great North-West are made accessible to " Canadian settlers and to European emigrants who are in " quest of cheap lands under the protection of the British " flag and a free Constitutional Government. " * A Telegraph Line ' will not accomplish these objects, " though it may serve an important purpose, and lead ulti- " mately to their attainment. But unless the ' Atlantic and " ' Pacific Transit and Telegi'aph Company ' are prepared " to midertako the construction of a Eoad, ;pan passu with " the Telegraph line, the Committee cannot, in the present " position of the Canadian Exchequer, and with the import- "ant question of boundaries, territorial jurisdiction and " form of government, in the vast Territory proposed to be "opened, still unsettled, recommend the acceptance of the " * Heads of proposal,' as submitted by them and conditiou- " ally approved by liis Grace." 48 b- I I 24, Old Broad Street, London, 17th March, 1864. C. FoRTESCUE, Esq., M.P., Colonial Office. Sir, I have had the honor to receive your letter of the 15th, enclosing, by the direction of His Grace the Duke of Newcastle an extract from a Report of a Committee of the Honorable Executive Council of Canada, approved by His Excellency the Governor-General on the 18th February, 1664, such extract containing a reply to the despatch of His Grace the Duke of Newcastle of the 1st May, 1863, '^n the subject of the proposed Telegraphic and Transit Route to the Pacific. In reply, I beg to say that during my visit to Canada in July and August last I cOrcfiilly explained to the Honble. the leader of the Canadian Government and to the Minister of Crown Lands that the proposals made through His Grace, and transmitted in the above despatch, involved not merely the construction of a Telegraph but also the erection of a system of posts at convenient distances, and of such further works as were required, in order to complete a Telegraphic and also a Postal and Passenger Route across the British portion of the Continent of America. I further explained the arrangements under which the Atlantic and Pacific Telegi-aph and Transit Company had transferred their rights and responsibilities to the reorganized Hudson's Bay Com- pany, and I especially stated that the capital of that Company had been considerably enlarged, with the special object of providing ways and means for the completion of these great works. I have nsccrtainod, and am authorized to state, that the 40 Hudson's Day Oouipauy have now for many months been in possession of the large funds required, and have repeated in official communications made to His Grace the Duke of Newcastle the offer to proceed with the construction of the Telegraph, as the pioneer work of the series, the moment that satisfactory answers, for which thev have been anxiously waiting, in reference to the promised assistance from the Colonies, were received. In conclusion, T beg to add thai: I will forward your letter and enclosure of the 15 th inst., and a copy of this reply to the Governor of the Hudson's Bay Company, Sir E. Head, for the information of the Hudson's Bay Company, which Company is now responsible for the continuance of the negotiations, and for the compietion of the works, wliicli they are perfectly pre])ared to undertake. 1 have the honour to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, EDWARD W. WATKIN. DowNiNo Street, r>tli April, 18(14. Sir E. W. Head, Bart., &c., ts and responsibilities to the Hudson's Bay Company. That transfer His Grace is most willing to recognibe, if it is recognised by the colonies concerned, and he is farther Aviliing that on the completion of the Road and Telegraph from the frontier of Canada to that of British Columbia, lands adjacent to the line shall be granted to the Company at the rate of one square mile for every lineal mile of Road and Telegraph, constructed on Crovni land between the line of demarcation above described and the frontier of British Columbia. The form and exact situation of these grants should, in his Grace's opinion, be left for future discussion, the principle being that a strip of land two miles in width along tlie line of Road and Telegraph, is to be divided equally between the Government and the Company. But in other respects the grants will be subject to the conditions expressed in the third 1) 2 j Hi i ! i 53 . article of a inoinoraiidiini enclosed in a letter addressed to the Duke of Newcastle by Mr. Watkin, on the 28th Apr^i, 18G3, an«l in Mr. Fortescue's answer of Ist May, and must be understood to stand in lieu of tlic grant, contemplated by that article. I enclose a Parliamentary Paper in whicih Mr. Watkin's letter is printed with the correspondence relating to it. 1 am, Sir, Your obedient servant, * C. FORTESCUE. The Agreement, referred to in the above letter, was re- ceived from the (\)loniul Office tlie 1st Muy, IHOll, and will ))e found on [)age 10. HuDHOiN'H Bay Uouhe. London, April l:v*li, 18()4. The Right Honorable CnirirKSTKU Fouthscur, &C., &C., iki'. Sir, T have had the honor of receiving yonr letter of Ai»ril nth, which has been laid before the Conunittee of the Hudson's Way (\»nipuuy and oonsitlered by them at a special meciing sunnnoiied for that ]mrpOKc. After tiic explanation given, with reference to the ])ost- Bcript ol'yonr lettiT of the 11th ultimo, the Committee feel thiit they aic in a pnsilion to rciu'w thi' negotiation with every iatiR- of coming to a satisfactory conclusion. They think tliis, because they tnist it will be foiuid that their de- iu:uul.i. oil the part of the Comjiaiiy, diU'cr in degree, rather ■Jf than in principle, from the offers made by his Grace the Duke of Newcastle. •* 4 2. The Committee do hot object to the proposal that a payment of One Shilling per acre for all lands sold should be made to the Company, in proi)ortion as the money Is received by the Government, nor do they object to the term of fifty years as the limit of time after which such payment should cease. They think, however, that, if a limit of time is fixed, there ought to be no limit of amount, inasmucli as the (jIo- vernmcnt pay nothing beforehand, and will be called on to liand over the money only on the supposition that they re- ceive a large sum themselves. If the lands sell freely the receipts of the Government will be increased, and the Com- mittee do not sec why the share of the Company should not in justice increase in proportion. If, however, any limit 'n the amount of the'pajinents, to be made to the Company by this and the next article, is absolutely recpiircd, the Committee would bo willing to agree that the produce of the two together — tliiit is of the one sliilling an acre for h.nd and the percentage cm the gold- should not in the aggregate exceed £1,000,000. It is neccssaiy to make one observation with reference to (he payments on account of land. According to tlie letter of the ]n'o])osal it would be open to the Colonial Government to defeat the claim of the (N)mpany altogetluM* by adopting a system of free grants, and it nnist lluTefore be understood, if this be done on any gi'ound of policy, the payment to the Company should bo made notwithstanding. 3. With regard to the perci-ntage on the proceeds of gold the Committee are willing to accept the proi)ortion of one- ill «i k fourth as stated in your letter, it being clearly understood tliat they arc not called on to defray any portion of the ex- pense of collection or escort. Here again, however, it appears to the Committee, whilst they are willing to admit the limit of time, that the limit in amount, looking to the contingent nature of the payment, ought to be withdi-awn. At any rate they could consent to it only on the terms already stated in Article 2, — that is to say, if the possible limit were extended to £1,000,000 for both lands and gold conjointly. 4. If, in exchange for the rights to be ceded by tlie Hudson's Bay Company, the Government were about to pay an adequate money consideration, not contingent in its dia- racter, there would be of course no reaBon why the sellers should expect to retain any large ])orti(/n of the soil or to reserve to themselves the chance of future benefit from the future prosperity of the Colony. But the offers now made are of a totally different character. No profit will accrue to the Company unless tlie Covernnient itself makes a^ liigliei' (me, and tlie Conanittce, as trustees for tlie Proprietors, feel it to be absolutely necessary to stipulate ior certain addi- tional reservations in land, which I will ju'oceed to sjiecify. I may add too that such a reservation would appeal* to be jiolitic in the interot't of the Colony itself. For many years to come the Conijiany must bo closely connected in (nidc with the Territory which they iM-oposc lo rcliiKinish, and it appears imporlant on every accounc that they shonld -ctain wlrtt may 1)0 called a " a share in the stake," — that they should feel their own inlcrcsts iih landholders, us well an merchants, wnvi)pe(l np with those of the (V)lony, and should have every inducement to contribute by their iiiHuence and 55 T proceedings to its future well-being and tranquillity. There is nothing, perhaps, in which the Company could exert this influence more beneficially than in discouraging the use of spirits in the trade with the natives, and it would be their interest and their wish to second every effort of the Colonial Government in this direction. ; }. It' 1 1 5' The Committee therefore ask — » . (a). That the Company should retain, as private pro- perty, all their jiosts and stations on which buildings have been erected with an area of not less than 6000 acres round each such ])08t; — but they do not of course intend that this clause should apply to the Eed Kiver Settlement. {!)). That they should in like manner retain all lots set out and occupied by them. {e). That, whenever the Government of the Colony shall have sold or granted 50,000 lujres, the C()mi)any should be entitled to a grant of 6000 acres of wild land to be selected by them. The Connnittee have ])roj)osL'd this mode of reservation because it n])i)ears to them to obviate the objection, whiejj nmy reasonably be made to setting apart beforehand a num- ber of iHohiled tracts of wild Ituul, dotted over the surface oi' the (\>iony, and caiculiilcd to impede the free flow of settlo- ment in tlie Territory. In this manner (lie grants to the (\unpauy will only pi-oeeed eijually with the progress of colonization ; and tliu denuuid will hardly seem oxtravagaiit, when it is ('onsidered that the total number of [le-res, to beat once handed over, cannot be estinmted at less than two hundred million. (1 I 50 5. The Committee think it neccssiin' to provide that the Colonial Government shall not, at any time, tax the lands or property of the Company in any way, or on any scale, diffe- rent from that on which the lands or property of other Pro- prietors are taxed. G. The Committee assume that all charges of a public character, which now fall on the Hudson's Bay Comi)any, shall as a matter of course be transferred to the Government of the Colony. As regards the salarj' of the Bisho]) of Rupert's Land, the Company, by the Governor and Deputy Governor, act jointly with others as Trustees of Avhat is called " The Leith Fund." For tlie discharge of these trusts, so far as that fund is concerned, they of course would remain answerable, but tlicy think that they ought to bo relieved of any obligations (over and above the proceed"^ of the fund) which they had taken on themselves as a matter of liberality and public jmlicy. In an equitable arrangement of all these matters, without injury to the interest of the (^hurcli or of iud'viduals, the Committee see no real difliculty. i il'M ;. The next point to be dealt with is tlie important (piestion of the Elec^tric Telegnii)h and the opening a com- inutiicalion sufficient for the passage of the mails across the l)resent TerrmuT of the Com])any from Canada to British Columbia. ^1 The ('OmmitLee arc quite willing to accept the paper sub- mitted by Mr. Watkin to his Grace the Duke of Newcasth^ as the basis of this arrangement, and are prepared to pla-M themselves substantially in the piisilion of the Atlantic and 5: I' Pacific Transit and Tclcgi'apli Oumpany, snbjcct to the fol- lowing alterations. The point, at which the Telegraph will probably begin on the Eastern side of the Temtorv, will be either Pembina or Rainy Lake, according as Canada may, or may not, adhere tt) the original terms proposed. If Canada should decline to fulfil what is laid down in the paper referred to, the Com- pany will of course be compelled to make the best bargain they can with the lines traversing Minnesota and passing tlu'ough the United States, and they will have to forego tho guarantee of interest originally held out from Canada, Rainy Tiake is named, not as being the admitted frontier of the province, but simply as the conventional point eastward aasmned in your despatch. With regard to the third Article in the i)aper refeiicd to, the letter of its provisions is not wholly ai)plieable to tho altered state of things : but in accordance witli your letter of the oth inst., tlie Committee are willing to adopt its spirit us the basis of the arrangement to be made. Thev cannot however admit that one scjuare mile for every lineal mile of ttilegraph would be an adequate allowance of wild land for such an undertaking. They believe it will be found that, in all such enterprises through an unsettled country in America, the ])ro])ortion of land granted to the contractors has been far larger, and they think that the cliiiin in their case is Btrengtliened, rather than weakened, l)y the fact that the land to be passed through is a very small portion of that which they themselves propose to cede for a consideration, for a time at least little more than nomin:d. iilii The Committee on referring U) th<' printed convsjKindenee, II 68 forwarded by you, find that Sir Frederic Rogers, in his letter of August 28th, 1862, expressed the grutilication of his Grace the Duke of Newcastle at the readiness of the Company to make a grant of land to the promoters of the proposed Passenger and Telegraphic communication; but they believe on the best authority that the most moderate demand ever made by Mr. Watkin, when then sent to the Company by his Grace, very far exceeded the breadth of five miles of wild land for every lineal mile of telegraph. Below tliis amount of wild land, to be set out in alternate sections, lis proposed in the third article of Mr. AVatkin's paper, the Committee could not reduce tlieir demand. !> 1 •■ !•■ I JM 8. Such, Sir, ju'c the conditions which the Committee feel bound to offer to Her Majest^-'s Covernment after a full consideration of all the circumstances of tlic case. Even with these conditions they do not feel sure that they shall escape on tlie part of their Proprietors the question— " What " are wo to obtain for tJiis cession of our riglits in so large a " Territoiy ? Why are we— tlie Hudson's Bay Con\pany~ " to i)urchase, at so large a cost, the erection of tlie Queen's " authoi'ity on British soil rendered necessary by no fault of " ours ? Coukl we, under any circumstances, be worse olf " than we shall be in sacrificing, for a contingent considera- " tion, this vast mass of property and the chance of in'ofit " from its future development ?" H* wo do not think that these (juestions admitted of a satisinctory answer we should not, as Trustees for (lie Pro- prietors, convey to you the oilers made in this letter. But it may l)e ditticult to convine(^ our Shareholders tliat (as we believe) the real interests of the Company and of Her 59 Majesty's Government will be equally promoted by their adoption in the form now suggested. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD, Governor. Downing Street, 6th June, 1864. The Ilight Honorable Sir E. Head, Bart. Sir, I am directed by Mr. Secretary Cardwell to inform you that he has had under his consideration your letter of the 13 th of April last. Mr. Cardwell will not be prc])arcd to acce[)t, without considerable modification, the terms contained in it. But before sending to you, in answer, the tenns to which ho would be prepared to bind Her Majesty's Government, he feels that it will be necessary to consult the Lords of Ww Majesty's Treasury, and to ascertain more fully the viows, which may be entertained by the m'visers of the Governor (k'lieral oi'lJanada. r In the mean time he does n«)t understand that you are willing to undertake to complete a line of Telcgniph luid Jtoad to Ihe Pacific, until yon siinll have received the iiRHurances from Canivda, British Columbia, and Vancouver w m i-i. ■Mif 00 Island, to which Telereucc has been made in the former coiTcspondence. I am, Sir, Your obedient Servant, FREDERIC ROGERS. Hudson's Bay House, London, June 7th, 1864. Sir Frederic Kogers, Bart., &c., &e., Otc. . Colonial Office. Sir, I have the honor to acknowleu<^c your letter of June ()th, in which you infonn me that Mr. Secretary Cardwell will not be prepared to accept the terms contained in my letter of April 13th last without considerable modifications. Until the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company shall know what those modificotious amount to, it is of course premature to express an opinion as to their oAvn power to acquiesce in them ; but it is only fair to state at once that they have little hope of obtaining' the assent of their Share- holders to imy tc/ms involving sacrifices on the part of the Company, which (taken as a whole) would be more extensive than those already proposed. With regard to the latter part of your letter the Hudson's Bay (^mipany arc prepared to take steps at once for tiie ereciion of the Telegraph iVom Pembina or Kainy Lake (as the case may be) to tlie ]\icific at New "VVe8tmiii8t(>r. Wlie- thf f they would connect this lino with the Canadian line, over British Ten'itoiy, would depend upon the readiness of If Uf 1 ri 61 the Canadian Government to complete theii* own Tele^aph up to Rainy Lake, and fulfil conditions similar to those which were originally discussed with the Duke of Newcastle. As a matter of course the Hudson's Bay Company would expect from the Government of British Columbia such sup- port and assistance as would on their part be equivalent to the benefits confeiTed by a direct and easy communication with the Atlantic ports, whether by way of Canada or of the United States. I have the honoi* to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, EDMUND HEAD. Hudson's Bay House, London, .Tune 7th, 1804. The Ridit Honorable 'in Chichester Fortescue, M.P., &c., &c., <.^c. Sir, I have the honor to inform vou that the Com- mittec of the Hudson's Bay Company have sent Dr. Rac to ]lnpert'8 Land witl< a viewof ascertaiiiiii;^' tlie best and most ])racticable route for an lOlectric Telcgrapli ik^'oss the Com- l)any'8 territory from Red River to the head of Eraser's River or thereabouts. The Connnittee are anxious that Dr. Rae, whilst ho is in the country, may have an opportunity of surveying (roughly at least) the lU'obable route for a line of Telegraj)!! from tlic head waters of tlie Fraser to New West- minster, but they are npin'clicnsive that, in making an exami- 62 i' i MP I lit nation of this kind without cJie authority of tlie Government of British Columbia, the Hud son'. ■> Bay Company may appear to be assuming rights, which they do noi possess beyond the Rocky mountains. The Committee would tiierefore request that instructions may be given to the Governor of British Columbia to pcnriit such an examination to be made by Dr. Rae, as a necossaiy step with a view to futm'e arrangements. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD. Downing Street, 13th June, 1864. The Right Honorable Sir E. Head. Bart. Sir, With reference to vour letter of the 7th instant, I am directed by Mr. Secretary Cardwell to acquaint you that instructions will be sent by the lirst opportunity to the Governor of British Coin, bia to afford Dr. Rae every assist- ance in his power to enable him to make the survey desired by the Hudson's Bay Company of the ]>robable route for a line of Telcgrapli from the head waters of Eraser's River to New Westminster. I am, Sir, Your obedient Servant, C. FOKTESCUE. 63 Downing Street, 29th November, 1864. The Right Honourable Sir E. Head, Bart. Sir, With reference to your letter of the 7th of June, I am directed by Mr. Secretary Cardwell to transmit to you a copy of a despatch from the Governor of British Columbia, enclosing copy of a notice which he had issued calling upon all Magistrates, Constables, and other public officers to fur- nish Dr. Rae with any aid which he might require. I am, Sir, Your obedient Ser\ant, T. FREDERICK ELLIOT. {Enclosure.) New Westminster, 5th September, 1864. The Right Honorable Edward Cardwell, M.P., &c., &c., &c. Sir, I have had tlic honor to receive your despatch No. 12 of the lltli of Juno, informing me that Dr. Rae would pi'obably shortly arrive in the colony for the purpose of sur- veying a ])racticable route for an Electric Telegraph from head of Eraser River to New AVestminster, and directing me to aiford him assistance in the prosecution of this undertaking. 2. I encloRo co])y of a notice whidi T caused to be inserted in the (^uzette, calling u])on all Magistrates, ConstableB, and r! i8« ?5i I! I ii f ' 64 other public orticers to ftirnish I)r. Rao with any aid ol which he might stand in need. It is ahnost superfluous for me to say that I shall offer him personally every assistance on his arrival in New Westminster. I have the honour to be, Sir, Your most obedient humble Servant, lilCHAKD SEYMOUR. :. * _i {Capy.) Extracf front the Govermneni Gazette, Br it ink Coltimhia. " Colonial Secretary's Office, " 1st September, 18G4. " Dr. Rao being expected to arrive shortly in this colony by way of the Rocky Mountains for the purpose of completing the smTey of the line of Telegrapli from the Red River to New "Westminster, the Governor requests that all magis- trates, constables, or other public officers will furnish him with such aid and assistance as he may require. CHARLES GOOD, For the Col. Sec." Hudson's Bay House, London, December 7th, 1864. Sir Frederic Rogers, Bart., itC, t^'C, &.(i. Sir, In my letter of 13th A\m\, 18»)4, a definite pro- posal, involving the cession of a. certain portion of the Com- pany's Territory and rights of property therein, was made by me (subject to the approval of the Proprietors) on behalf of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company. We cannot but feel that the long delay which has taken place in answer- ing this proposal has been detrimental to the interests of the Company in more ways than one, but looking to the reasons assigned by the Right Honom'able the Secretary of State for such delay in your letter of 5th April, 1864, we have not hitherto felt at liberty to press for a final decision. The discussion, which has now arisen respecting the Union of the North American Provinces under one Government, has made us think that it may be expedient for us to submit to the Secretary of State another scheme for carrying out this transfer — -not because we wish to alter or retract our former offer — but simply as an alternative which we, on behalf of the Company, and subject to the approval of our Proprietors should be ready to accept. The Territory with its mining rights, affected by such transfer, has been sufficiently defined in the former corre- spondence but it may bo roughly described as follows — ■ On the west bounded by British Columbia. On the north by the Northern Saskatchewan down to Lake Winnipeg. On the east by a line ffom the mouth of the Saskatchewan to the point where the Winnipeg river enters that Lake, r,nd thence by a parallel of latitude due east until such parallel cuts Canadian Territory, by intersecting tlic watcr-ahcd between the basin of the Lake and the St. Lawrenco on tlic oi'ic hn^ic', and that of Hudson's UrtV on the otlier. ■J 66 On tlic south by the United States Boundary, or by any outlying- portion of British TeiTitory not induded in this (V)ni})any's Lands. The conditions on which we would recommend the Pro- prietors to cede thic Territory and all mining r'ghts and rights of property or government with'n it are the follow- ing— 1. That the Company be paid £1,000,000 sterling. 2. That the (lOvemmcnt of British Ncith America acknowledge the (Company's i»ight to trade without exclusive privileges of any kind within the .Territory. 3. That the Company should hold in fee simple all their jxists now occui)ied, vith a reasonable area round each jwst. All i)revious sales and bargains at Red River made by them shall be confinncd. 4. That the Government of British North America shall im])ose no exceptional taxes on the Company, its pro- perty or its servants. T). Tha. the dis]mLed matter of the Company's lands in Canada lu settled by issuing grants on the footing formerly agreed nimn between Mr. Vankoughnet and Mi-. Hopkins. (5. That the Comi)any shall be bound to hand over to tlie (Jovcrnnu'Ut of Hritish North America all tlie materials for the I'onstrnction of the Telegraph on pavmeiit of the cost ]>rice and expenscH already incurred. You will understand, Rir, that (he propitsal, contained in this letter, is not to bu wmstrucd as any withdrawal or 67 modification of that previously made, but tliat it is laid before the Secretary of State simply ns a jiOhsiblc alternative. The Committee are of opinion that, in the event of the transfer of the Territory to any Colonial Government, such transfer ought to be effected and the conditions stipulated with the Company, oup:ht to be embodied in an English Act of Parliament. Before closing this letter it is right that I should state, for the information of the Right Honourable the Secretary of State, that T)r. llae has returned to England having traversed the whole district from Rod River over the Pass, leading to Tete Jaune Cache, and thence down the Frascr to New Westminster. Every assistance was given him in British Columbia and he reports that it is perfectly easy to construct across this countiy a line of Telegi'aph, as well as a Road, sufficient for the conveyance of the mails. Tele- graj)hic AVire and Insulators in sufTicient (luantitics are already at York Factor}', on tlie Mississijjpi or cm the voyage to Victoria, so that all the materials will be in the spring on the spots where they are required, and the Company will await with anxiety the decision of ller Mnjesty's Ooveni- ment as to the offers now in the hands of the Secretary of State. F have the honor to be. Sir, Your most obedient S(M'vnnt. EDMUND HEAD. h2 68 Hudson's Bay House, London, Dec. 12th, 1864. T. Frederick Elliot, Esq., Colonial Office, Downing Street, Sir, I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 29th ultuno, transmitting a copy of a despatch from the Governor of British Colmnbia, enclosing copy of a notice which he had issued, calling upon all magistrates, constables and other public officers to furnish Dr. Rae with any aid which he might require in surveying the route for an Electric Telegraph across the Rocky Moun- tains, and, on behalf of myself and my colleagues in the direction of this Company, I have to request that you will convey to the Secretary of State for the Colonial Depart- ment our best thanks for his obliging communication. I have the honor to be. Sir, Your most obedient servant, EDMUND HEAD. Governor. i! > fji i Hudson's Bay Hottsr, December 13th, 18G4. The Right Ilonorublo Edward Cardwell, Sir, I have the lienor to forward two nmps showing rospoctivcly the Tcrritoiy of tho Hudson's Bay Company as it is now hold, and the ])ortion of territory wliii'lj It Im proposed to cede bv my letter of Deeeiubur 7tli. 60 The memorandum at the foot of the second of the maps is rendered necessary by the imperfect character of the surveys of the regions to which it refers. It explains that it was assumed that eastern parallel of latitude to the mouth of the Winnipeg would cut tne Canadian Frontier somewhere to the westward of the 85th meridian of west longitude. It was not our intention to run this parallel further to the cast, but up to that point the Committee would consent to its prolongation if it does not cut the frontier before. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient servuiiL EDMUND HEAD, Governor. Downing Stukkt, IDLh Docembur, 18G4. The Right Honorable Sir E. Head, Burt, . ^ii., &ii., &c., Sir, I am directod by Mr. Socnvtary Cardwell to trnnsmit to you a copy of a Minute of tlie Kxecutivt; Council of Canada containing their viuvvR on ti>e l"utur(3 (Jovi'rnnu'nt of the Rod River and Siiskutciiewcn Territories, and I am to acquaint you that Mr. Cardwell is in communication on the 'I ! u lii I 70 subject with Mr. Brown, the President of the Executive Council of that Province. I ain, Sir, Your most obedient servant, T. FREDK. ELLIOT. .' Nl ■■ t Copy of a Report of a Oommitten of tim Honorabk the Emh'u- tivfi Council, approved by Hin Excellency the Governor General on the ilth November, 18G4. Tliu Connuittee of Council have liad under tiieir con- sideration the despatcli of tlie Right Honorable Edward Cardwell, Her Majesty's Secre':ary of State for tlie Colonies, of Ist July 1804, in reply to your Excellency's desi)atch of IDth February, 1804, transmitting- IMinute of Council on tlio subject of tlie pending negotiations between Her Majesty's (lovernnient and tlio Hudson's liay (\)m[)any for the cession to the Crown of the rights of that Company in the North West Temtories. In the ute of Ctamcil, transnutted by Your Excel- lency, the y ernment of Caiuida reconnnended that " cor- "reR])ondL ,0 be opened with the Im))erial (h)vernnient, " with a view to the adojition of some Hpi'cdy, inexpensive and "mutually sat isfactcu'y i»lau 'to settle definitely the North "Western IJiamdury of Camuhi,' and that 'the claim ol' "Canada be asserted to all (luit jiortion of (Vntral British " America, which can be shewn U) have been in possession of " the Fmich at the period of tlie cession in 1703.' " 71 Mr. Oardwell, in acknowledging this Minute, renuu-ler neighbourhood as nuiy bo •' available to her for the purpose of settlement, with which " lands she is willing to open and maintain connuunication, " and for which she will provide the means of local udminis- " tration," Your Committee apprehend that the districts on the Red River and Ac Saskatchewan are among those likely to l)e desired for early occu])ation. It is of great importance that the peace and good order of those districts should be effec- tually sernred. Your Committee trust that there will be no difficulty in effecting arraTigements as between ller Majesty's (Jovernment and the Hudson's Bay Company, by which those Districts may be crded to Canada on tMpiitabie princi- ples, and within the Districts thus annexed to h«r, tiie authority of the lludscm's Hay Company wonhl of course entirely cease. And Mr. Cardwell concludes by asking whether the Covernment of Canada arc ])repared to assist in these negotiations with the view of accepting the (lovcn'n- nient of any portion of the Territory and undertaking the duties contemphded l>y the (Vmnnittee, in case suPlcientiy favorable terms can bo obtained ; and ho suggests that, if f I' I M if ( « [ II I J i' » a! n*! 73 perparec'. so to do, it would be desirable that some person * duly authorised to communicate the views of the Canadian Government should be sent to England for that purpose. The Committee of Council recommend that Mr. Cardwell b'j informed that the Government of Canada is more than 'jvcr impressed with the importance of opening up to settle- ment and cultivation the lands lying between Lake Superior and the Rocky Mountains. The great extent of these lands and their adaptability for settlement are now established beyond a doubt, and it is not to be contemplated that a region so fertile and capable of sustaining so vast a popula- tion should longer be closed to civilization for the benefit of a trading company, however long established and respect- able tliat company may be. The rapid progress of British Columbia adds to the expediency of opening without delay an overland route to the Pacific, and gives feasibility to the hope long cherished by many that the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, ore many years ehipse, may be connected by ono direct line of railway thro'igb British Territory fi'om Halifax to British Columbia. The close relations springing up between the Red River settlers and the Americans of Pem- bina and St. Paul, and the removal of many Americans into the Territory, render it doubly expedient that a settled Government under the British Crown should be established in the country at an early date. The ell'ort now being made, with every pros})ect of success, by the Governments of Caiiudn, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, and Prince Hdward Island for the union of all these Provinces under one Government, pret^uts another strong reason for settling now the futiu'e position of the North "West Country. More especially as the parties to the proposed British 73 American Federation have unanimously agreed that the people of the North West Territory', and vf British Columbia and Vancouver, may at any time join the Federation on equitable terms, and the whole of British America thus become united in one system of Government under tho pro- tecting rule of Great Britain. The Government of Canada is ready and anxious to co- operate with the Imperial Government in securing the early settlement of the territory and the establishment of the local Government in its settled portions. The Government looks forward with interest to the day when the valley of the Sas- katchewan will become the back country of Canada, and tho land of hope for the hardy youth of the province when they seek new homes in the forest ; and it anticipates with con- fidence tho day when Canada will become the highway of immigration from Europe into those fertile valleys. To attain these ends the Government is prepared to render all the aid in its power toward opening up the country, Tho Committee of Council are however clearly of tho opinion that the first step towards the settlement of tho territory is the extinction of all claim by tho Hudson's Bay Company to proprietary rights in the soil or exclusive right of trade. The Conni\ittco do not deem it necessary now to raise the question of ^hc validity or invalidity of the Com- pany's charter. Were all tho pretensions of the Company as to their title fully admitted for the sake of argument, the necessity of its speedy extinction would still remain. It is not to bo entertained for a moment that half a continent sbuuld continue to be shut off from the world on the strength of a parchment title however good. 74 p h: i, 8.5 proposal Hor Majesty's Ministers asswited, engaging that if the negotiation should be sueecssful, they on the part of the Crown, being satisfied that the amount of the indemnity was reasonable and the security sufficient, would apply to the Imperial Parliament to sanction the arrangement and guarantee the amount. Until this engagement shall have been disposed of, it will bo necessary for Her IMajesty's Government to keep it in view in any steps which they may be called upon to take in the matter. I am, Sir, Your obedient Servant, W. E. FORSTEH. Hudson's Bay House, London, March Ist, 1866. W. E. FoRSTER, Esq., M.-\, &c., &c., &c. Bir, I have the honour lo acknowledge your letter of the 20th inst. I beg to assure the Secretary of State tbi\ lo Committee of the Hudson's Hay Company have never .- sight of the fact that an arningemcnt for transferrin! ilieir rights to Canaria was contcniplated as i)()RHil)l(', alt ,'h no a(^tio?i or engagement has oeen yet taken, on the purt of th'j Company, cxctpt so far as to express n readiness to consider any offer whicli may \w nuido. Tlic letter to Ml. McE\M;n intuudeU uuiv u, aj' t(iat (l.o 86 Company would be ready to exercise its lawful powers for the protection of Colonists and the reorj^anization of a settlement in their Territory. If those powers shall have been previously purchased by Canada or assumed bv Her Majesty's Government,, their exercise will not be needed, because there will then be another government in existence. If such powers were still in the hands of the Company, the Committee ventured to think that the Right Honorable the Secretary of State would probably concur in any lawful exercise of them which might be necessary for the good of settlers. Irrespective of any question of the government of tlio Territory, the Committee presume that they arc at tlie present time in no-wise hanii)ercd in the disi)osal of their private property in hinds by sale. At the same time T would ♦entuie most respectfully to en(juirc for how long a period the option, if it may so bo called, which has been given to Crriada, is su])po8ed to remain open. On tlie 21)th June, 18(55, I assured the Secretary of State of our readiness Lo coiinidcr any offer made in ]>ur8uanciiice that tihie, so far as the Coni- mitteo kn-w the only step taken has l)een the publication of a Report made to the (Jovoi'nor-Oeneral of Canada by one of the deputation, in which, as it appears to the Committee, the rights of the Company are disputed, and the value of its i)ro]>erty systematically depreciated. If, indeed, the m!ti<.n of the Company, ^v it h reference to its riglitH of private property (as dislingniHlied from its rights of Covernment), is in any degree fettered or sub- 87 * pended by the existence of the Aj^eemcnt of Her Majesty's Government witli that of Canada, the question of delay and the possibility of losing a favourable opportunity for sj^les may become a very grave one in a pecuniary point of view. This is more especially the case because in th'^ Agreement the words "if any" are expressly inserted in connection with the proposed compensation. So far, therefore, as that Agreement is concerned, the Company after all may be held entitled to no compensation for their rights public or private. It is difficult to see how a stipulation of this very contingent character, not entered into by the Company themselves, can, with any fairness, be considered as interfering with its right to deal with its o\\'n i)ropcrty. It is scarcely necessary for me to say that the final accept- ance of any offer, made by Canada or by any other party, would depend, not on the Commit' -i/, but on the body of Shareholders to whom tliat property belongs. I have the honor to be, Sir, • Your most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD, (lovernor. pi i , 1 I r . Hudson's Bay House, London, March 2Dth, 18G0. WiiJiiAM E. FouRTKii, Esq., M.P. &c., &c., &c. Sir, I have the iionor to request that you will snlimit I 88 i !i] it ^ ii to the Right Honorable the Secretary of S-iite for his con- sideration the following papers : — 1, Extract of a letter from Govenior William Mactavish, dated January 22nd, 1866. 2. Copy of case submitted to Mr. Montague Bere, Bar- rister at Law, and of Mr. Bere's opinion on such case, with reference to the points raised by Governor Mactavish. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD. The above papers having reference only to a proposal for establishing a Court of Probate in Rupert's liand, it is considered unnecessary to insert them at length in this correspondence. I I* 4 ^ ' J f? . Downing Street, 5th April, IbCG. The Right Honorable Sir ilDMUND Head, ]3art. Sir, I am directed by Mr. Secretary Cardwell to acknow- ledge the recei] i. of your letter with its enclosure of '.he 29th ultimo, on the subject of the establishment of a (/ourt of Probate in the territories of the Hudson's Bay Company in British North xVmerica. I am to nc(\uaint you, in reply, that if the Company have i. n 89 any propoBal to make, lor which the sanction of the Crown is necessary, Mr. Cardwell would request them to have tho goodness to prepare and submit it for consideration. I have the honor to be, Sir, Youi* most obedient Servant, T. FREDERICK ELLIOT. » 1 k '■' I Hudson's Bay House, London, April 6th, 1866. T. Frederick Elliot, Esq., Colonial Office, Downing Street. Sir, I have tho honor to acknowledge your letter of tho 6th inst., and I beg you will thank tho Right Honorable thr. Secretary of State for his offer to consider any definite scheme, laid before him by the Company, with reference to a Court of Probate. Tho pajKjrs in question were submitted to Mr. Cardwell, without any schcmo or proposal in a definite shape, because tho CJovcmor and Committee felt that, whilst tho option of purchase of their rights by Canada was still supposed by Her Majesty's Government to be pending, it waa useless to framo any such plan. Tho Governor and Committee are still of this opinion, and they think the difficulty coniplaini'd of, on the part of British subjects in Rupert's Land, furnislies an additional reason 90 ■i; Hhl ,1 \ ' for a speedy decision on the part of the Government of Canada. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, EDMUND HEAD. Downing Street, 16th April, 1866. The Right Honorable Sir Edm^und Head, Bart., Sir, With reference to your letter of the 0th instant, 1 am directed by Mr. Secretary Cardwell to acquaint you that copies of the coiTCspondcnce rcspectin"^ the establishment of a Pi'obnte Court, within the Territories of the Hudson's Bav Company in British North America, will be sent to the Governor of Canada for the information of the Provincial Government. I am. Sir, Your most obedient Servant, rUEDEUIC ROGERS. Hudson's Bay House, London, Jnly 17th, 1866. Sir FuEDEUic Rogers, Bart. Sir, 1 have the honor to enclose for the information of •J 9i :. the' Rij^ht Honorable the Secretary of State a copy of a Pamphlet, which T received on the 12th instant. This Pamphlet purports to be a .report, addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States, and contains certain statements to which the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company desire to call the special attention of the Earl of Carnarvon. At page 26 the following passage occurs : — " Twenty years later, in 18G5, the American Ten'itory of " Montana adjoins the region which excited the enthusiasm " of Dc Smet. Its population of 25,000, to be increased '' during 18GG to 50,000, have been drawn to the sources of •* the Missouri by discoveries of gold and silver mines close " to the international bordei', and riunburs of gulches and '^ ledges in the Saskatchewan district, yielding even greater " prizes to the prospector, are already rife, and will soon " precipitate ' a strong, active and enterprising people ' into " ' the spacious void.' What is called the Americanization " of the Red River Settlement has 1)een slow, although sure, " since the era of steam navigation, but this Americanization " of the Saskatchewan will rush suddenly and soon from the " camps of treasure-seekers in Montana." You, Sir, are aware of the correspondence which during the last three years has passed between myself as Governor of this Com))any and the Colonial Office, on the subject ol' establiHhing in the llndsoirH Bay Territory some Covern men t administered in the lumie of Iler Majesty. You know alF<> that Mr. Cardwell decided to otter to Canada an option ol acquiring the rights of this Company, and that, so far back >R )■■■ M 1 \ IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) // 4^ :/ ^ A 1.0 I.I 1.25 H^im 12.5 1.6 1.4 V] V. ^ ^^ // 07^% W /A Pholographic Sciences Corporation 23 WIST MAIN STRUT WIISTIR.NY M5IU (7U) ari^soa o i/i i \y\ hb "I" » 9,2 as the 1st of March lust, I ventured rcspcetfully to ask the question (whicU has not yet been answered) how long this option was to remain open. In a letter addressed to nie by Mr. Forster, and dated the 20th of February last, we were told— '' Having reft'ai'd to the reference you have made in your *' letter to the probable concurrence of Her Majesty's *' Government in the establishment of some new Government, '' Mr. Card well is desirous of reminding you that at the Con- '* ference, which took place during last summer between the '* Canadian Ministers and certain Members of Her Majesty's '* Government, the Provincial Ministers expressed their " desire that the North-Western Territory should be made '^ over to Canada, and they undertook to negotiate with the '* Hudson's Bay Company for the termination of their rights, " on condition that the indemnity, if any, should be paid by *' a loan to be raised by Canada under the Imperial guaran- " tee. To this proposal Her Majesty's Ministers assented, '^ engaging that if the negotiation should be successful, they *' on the part of the Crown, being satisfi'^d that the amount •' of the indemnity was reasonable, and the security .sufficient, ** would apply to the Imperial Parliament to sanction the " arrangement and guarantee the amount. " Until this arrangement shall have been disposed of, it " will bo necessary for Her Majesty's Government to keep " it in view in any steps which tliey may bo called upon to " take in the matter." Under tliese circumstances it is clear that the Company, thus cautioned, can take no steps of themfiolvcs to moot any inroad or immigrntion into their Territory, if it be on their 93 Territory that it will first take place—a point to which I shall afterwards revert. Indeed, the powers of the Charter w'cre probably not given to be used for any such purpose, but, if they were sufficient for such emergency, our hands are at the present moment tied by Mr. Forstcr's letter. We think, therefore, that we are the more bound, most res- pectfully to suggest whether, if it is intended to retain the Territory north of the dOth parallel as British soil, some steps ought not to be taken for asserting its British character and maintaining laws and order within it. This may no doubt cither be effected by the direct action of the English Government, or be attempted by the agency of Canada, but as, we understand, the latter course to liavc been deliberately selected, the Committee (provided this Company are fairly dealt within the matter of compensation) can have no right to offer any remarks on the subject. In the face, however, of the confident predictions and Btatemcnts contained in this Report to the Secrettuy of the United States Treasury, we should not be justified, if wo failed to point out the necessity of speedy action of some kind. With regard to the particular strip of country whore tho first overflow of settlers or miners may be expected from tho United States Territory of Montana, I tliiiikit ])robable that tlie Hudson's Bay Company have no immediate interest or responsibility connected witli it. So far as 1 can judge from the imperfect maps accessiblo to us, 1 beliovo that on tiie north of Montaiui there is n narrow belt running along the , V n I- ! I ;)i; ■ ! 94 4!) til parallel, \7atered by streams which fall not into Hud- son's Bay, but into Milk lliver, a tributary of the Upper jMissouri. If this be so, this strip of land, though British ground as being north of the 49th parallel, is not included in the grant made by the Charter of Charles II. to the Hud- st)n's Bay Company. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, EDMUND HEAD. Downing Street, 3l8t July, 18G6. The Right Honorable Su' Edmund Head, Bart. Sir, I am directed by the Earl of Carnarvon to trans- mit to you, for the infonnation of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company, the copy of a Minute di'awn up by the Executive Council of Canada, on the subjects referred to ill your letters of the Gth February and Ist Mai'ch. I am, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, FREDEUIO ROGERS. Co})}/ ofn Rpporl of a Commif/cv of ihc JJomrahk the Exfcu- iivc Council, approvvd hy Hin Excclkmy ihe Oovcrnor- Onirrnl in Coujiril, on f/ic 22ni/ dtn/ ofJnnr, 18(50. The Committee of the E.\eculive Council have given their 95 careM consideration to the despatches of the Secretary of State for the Colonies, bearing date the 24th February and 3rd March last, relative to a proposal made to the Hudson's Bay Company by a party of Anglo-American capitalists for the purchase " of such portion of the Territory claimed by " the Company as may be capable of cultivation," and they have the honour to submit to yoiL' Excellency the following remarks on the subject. In the first place the Committee do not admit that the Company have a legal title to that portion of the North- western Territoiy which is fit for cultivation and settle- ment. This fertile tract is a belt of land stretching along the northern frontier of the United States to the base of the Rocky Mountains, and Canada has always disputed the title of the Company to it. Even if it be admitted that the Charter of 1670, recog- nised as it has been by several Imperial Statutes, gives to the Company a freehold right in the soil in Rupert's Land, Canada contends that the cultivable tract in question forms no part of that land. It is not now necessary to repeat the grounds on which this opinion was founded, as they luive been already more than once submitted to her Majesty's Government, and it is only ulluded to lest silence on the subject miglit be assumed ns an uc(inic8cenco on tlio [)art orCanmla in tlie riglit of tiio Company to sell ; uHsmniiig, however, that sucli right exists, the Committoe see grave objccLioua to the propusitiony* of Mr. Mubiweu being enterLalncd. . ; i •Jf If ri PI TU lilt !' f '4\ t " It ( ,: rtr CO Canadian experience has shewn that sales of large tracts of land to individuals, or commercial corporations, have operated prejudicially to the best interests of the province and retarded, rather than promoted, its settlement and progress. Companies or individuals, purchasing for the purpose of speculation, are governed solely by the one view of obtain- ing a profitable retmn of the money invested in the pur- chase. All other considerations are set aside. No general or comprehensive system of settlement is or can be esta- blished. The best tracts are withheld from settlement in order that their value may be increased by the improvement of the surrounding country and by the labour of the settlers, and the price paid to the Company for the lands, instead of being expended in the opening up of roads and in develop- ing the resources of the country, is divided among a number of non-resident shareholders, having no interest in the pros- perity of the country further than as such prosperity contri- butes to the value of then* shares. In the correspondence, which took place in 1863 and 18G4 between the Hudson's Bay Company and the Colonial Office, with reference to the introduction of the direct authority of Her Majesty's Goverinnent in Rupert's Land, it appears that the Company proposed, as a condition of their assontii.g to the erection of a Crown Colony, that they should retain the ownership, in fee simple, of ojie luilf of the lands of the Colony. This ])ropoRition was rejected by the Duke of Newcastle in language which appeal's to the Committee to be con- clusive. 97 " In an unsettled colony there is no effectual mode of "taxation for purposes of government and improvement, and " the whole progress of the colony depends on the liberal and " prudent disposal of its land. These considerations afford ** decisive reasons against leaving that land in the possession '* of a Corporation. And I am to observe that these objec- '■^ tions, conclusive in any case, are greatly enhanced in the " case of the Hudson's Bay Company, as I learn from your " lettei that it has been the ' unvarying opinion' of the Com- " mittee, on whose behalf you speak, that the Company '* would * lose fully as much as they would gain by the in- " crease of settlement in the Chartered Territory.' It is '' therefore (to say the least) a question whether the Company " would not be under a direct inducement to use their pro- "prictary rights to thwart the colonizing efforts of the " Government. * * * The conclusive objection to the " scheme is that it would reproduce, in a gigantic shape, the *' inconveniences which, on a far smaller scale, were found " intolerable in Canada. It is evident, as a mutter of reason- " ing, and notorious as a matter of fact, that the interposition " of large blocks of property between tracts or districts of " Crown land must obstruct the opening up of these districts, " unless it fortunately happens that the private proprietor is "ready to expend money pari passu with the Government, " in the construction of roads and other improvements, and to " conform his land policy to that of the authorities. It is " also clear that colonists of the Anglo-Saxon race look upon " the Land Ilevenuo as legitimately belonging to the com- " munity, and that the diversion of half or more than half " of that Revenue to the purpose of increasing the dividends "of a ])rivato Corporation would cause a continual and " growing discontent, which could not bo allayed by any i ! '!' I 98 " abstract argument of right, and the full force of which " the Government would be expected by the Company to "sustain. His Grace cannot consent to make himself "responsible for these consequences, and he is therefore " obliged to treat as inadmisf "^le any proposal for the pro- " prietaiy partition of those "! Titories which may be placed " under the Government of the Crown." If such objections exist to the tenure of large tracts of land by so ancient and responsible a Corporation as the Hudson's Bay Company with large powers of Government, and a political as well as a commercial status, with how much greater pressure must they weigh against the transfer of such tracts to a private Association of Speculators. The Committee are further of opinion that, before any steps are taken to introduce a large body of settlers into that country, provision should be made for the efficie..i; administration of the Government there. So long as the Great North West is only occupied by the Hudson's Bay Company's servants and by the few scattered settlers at Fort Garry, the system of Govermnent, now obtaining there, may work sufficiently well, but whenever a large population shall settle in the country, then it is to bo feared that the Company's power will be altogether insuffi- cient to preserve order and good government, and that its authority will be set at nought. It is evident that the old policy of exclusion of strangers from the Territory must shortly be at an end. The neighbouring Territories belonging to tlie United States are last being settled up to the boiiudary line, and if 09 ' I u the statements, as to the existence of gold in the valley of the Saskatchewan, be at all verified, there will, ere long, be an influx of population, which no ]jowcr that can be exerted by the Hudson's Bay Company can either resist or control. This population will mainly come from the United States, and although there may be a good many of Her Majesty's subjects among them, by far the greater portion will be aliens, ignorant and regardless of the laws of England, and perhaps hostile to the British Government. They Avill utterly disregard the authority of the Company, will endeavour to establish a Government and Tribimals of their own, and as similar bodies have done elsewhere on this Continent, assert their political independence. Such a community would sever the British North American provinces in twain, and be the means of retaixling, if not altogether preventing, the formation of a Railway connecting the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The future interests of Canada and all British North America are, therefore, vitally concerned in the immediate establishment of a stroug Government there, and in its settlement as a part of the Britisli Colonial system. Impressed with this conviction, Canada would ere this have opened negotiations with the Hudson's Bay Company for the extinction of their claims, had it not been for the prospect of her speedy absorption in the [)rop()sed union of the .l]ritish North American Colonics. It would obviously liave been improper for the Canadian Government to com- mence negotiations which they could not hope to complete, or to enter into engagements the fnlfihnent of which must fall on the whole Confederated Provinces. At the siune (i 2 I ft 100 Hi' ' 1 i time the Committee beg leave to observe that, if the Company had thought proper to submit for consideration formal proposals for the transfer of their claims, the final settlement of the question would have been greatly advanced. Hecent events serve to shew that in a few months that union will be effected, and the Committed have no doubt that the Confederate Government and Legislature will feel it to be one of their first duties to open negotiations with the Hudson's Bay Company for the transfer of their claims to the Territory. Meanwhile Canada invites the aid of Her Majesty's Government in discountenancing and preventing any such sales of any portion of the Territory as is now applied foi. (Certified) WM. H. LEE, C. E. C. Hudson's Bay House, London, August 2nd, 1866. Sir Frederic Rogers, Bart., &c., &c., &c. Colonial Office. Sir, I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the Slst ultimo, transmitting copy of a Minute drawn up by the Executive Council of Canada on the subjects referi'cd to in my letters of tlie Gtli February and 1st Marcli, 1800, — and in reply I have to request that 101 ige the receipt of litting copy of a ncil of Canada on r the Gth February \(' to rcciuest that you will convey to the Earl of Carnarvon my thanks and those of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD. Hudson's Bay House, London, August 30th, 1866. Sir Frederic Rogers, Bart, &G., &o., &c. Sir, In my letter of July 17th addressed to you, 1 observed that the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company felt themselves bound again to suggest whether, if it is intended to retain the Teri-^'tory north of the 49th parallel as British Territory, some steps ought not to be taken for asserting its British character and maintaining law and order within it. The enclosed extract from recent despatches fi-om the Acting-Governor of Rupert's Land, Mr. William Mactavish, unfortunately confirms the views already expressed. I ought to add that these inroads of the wilder tribes of Indians are to a great extent the result of a new state of things— that is to say, the partial but rapid settlement of new territories, south of the 49tli parallel, and consequent interference with these savages on the part of the United States troops and settlers. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD. ! I 1Si I '■¥• 102 Extract of letter from Governor Mactavish to Thomab Fraser, Esq., Secretary, dated Fort Garry, Red River, ^Ist J'ldy, 1866. " I regret to have to infonn you tluit events both here and '* at Saskatchewan, of a most serious nature, have occurred. " A band of vSalteux from Eed Lake having set upon and " murdered four Sioux of a party who had visited this place, " within sight of Fort Gany, and being American Indians " the culprits at once withdi'ew within the American Lines. " This created gTcat excitement in the Settlement for some " time, "which has now very much died away, as nothing has " been since heard from the Sioux, but will doubtless revive " as soon as it is known that a party of them mean to come " here. Some of the Indians belonging to the Settlement " were spectators of the murder, and afterwards mutilated " the bodies of the murdered. This has excited in the minds " of the half-breeds a very strong feeling against the " Indians of the Settlement, and together with a disposition " on the part of the latter to be turbulent, may lead to future " acts of violence. Indeed to this I attribute the death of " an Indian whose abdomen was cut open by a half-breed " within the vralls of this fort a few days before my return. " The Indian died of the wound and the half-breed is now " in gaol awaiting his trial for murder at the August Quar- " terly Com't. No attempt has as yet been made to set him " free, but many are of opinion that the attempt will yet be " made, and in the circumstances in whicli the Government " here is placed will, if made, probably be successful, as for " some time past the Government may be said to have " existed on suiferance. « li a (( " At Fort Pitt on the Saskatchewan a band of about 200 I ( 103 Bluckfcct came in on a trade in the early part of June, and while they were trading a number of them forced the inner gates and went into the men's houses, whence they took the men's property which they wished, there being only five men in the establishment at the time. The Indians however did not then take any of the Company's property ; on their way off they unfortunately met a small party of the Company's people returning from the plains with meat for the establishment. The Indians fired at the men, took eight horses and overything they wished from the cart, but fortunately all the men made their escape to Fort Pitt. Shortly afterwards Mr. Donald McDonald, a clerk in the Company's service, was fired at and badly wounded close to Carlton. When I last heard Mr. McDonald was doing well, but he has had a veiy narrow escape, as the ball fired at him ripped his side and passed through the upper part of his arm. No cause is assigned for these acts, but it is feared the Blackfeet have made up their minds to be troublesome and are likely to commit more acts of v^" ilence. Mr. Chastellain was to go to the Blackfeet camp to demand the surrender of the horses and property taken at Fort Pitt." Downing Street, 8th September, 1866. The Right Honorable Sir E. W. Head, Bart,, &c., &c., &c. Sir, I am directed by the Earl of Carnarvon to acknow- ledge the receipt of your letter of the 80th ultimo, in which 104 you refer to your previous letter of the 17th July, and enclose extracts from recent despatches from the Acting Governor of Rupert's Land, reporting acts of violence and plunder on the part of the Indians on the Saskatchewan and Red River. His Lordship desires me to inform you that copies of your letters have been sent to the Grovernor of Canada. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, T. FREDK. ELLIOT. 1 " M ( 'J>; > DowifiNG Street, 23rd January, 1867. The Right Honorable Sir E. Head, Bart., &o., &c.> &o. Sir, At a recent interview between Sir Curtis Lampson and yourself on the one side, and Lord Carnarvon on the other, respecting the position of the Hudson's Bay Company, some doubt appeared to exist respecting the exact state of the inchoate or intended negotiation for the transfer of certain of the rights claimed by the Company to Her Majesty's Government or the Province of Canada. With the view of explaining the present losition of the Canadian Government, I am directed by Lord Carnarvon to enclose extracts from a Minute of the Executive Council of Canada, dated the 22nd of June, 1866, from which you will ])ercoive tliat, while the (piostion of Confederation is pend- ing, the Canadian Government consider themselves incom- petent to initiate negotiations, and bound to reserve them for the Confederate Government and Legislature. n 105 Ifc is of course for the Hudson's Bay Company to consider for themselves what course is most proper and conducive to their own interests. But it appears to Lord Carnarvon that any effective negotiation being for the moment impossible, it is for the interest of both parties that the question should remain open for arrangement, so soon as an authority exists capable of dealing with it, on the part of the Colony or Colonies interested. He would, therefore, regret to learn that the Company contemplated any immediate action, which was calculated to embarrass the negotiations, which would then become possible, and which, in the opinion of the Executive Council, it would be the duty of the Con- federate Government to open. 1 have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, T. FREDK. ELLIOT. Extracts from a Minute of thi Executive Council of Canada, dated tlu) 22nd June, 186G. " Impressed with this conviction Canada would ere this " have opened negotiations with tlio Hudson's Bay Com- " pany for the extinction of their claims had it not been for " the prospect of her speedy absorption in the proposed " union of the British North American Colonies. It would " obviously have been improper for the Canadian GovciTi- " mont to commence negotiations which they could not \w\w " to complete, or to enter into engagements the fullilinont " of which must fall on the wlioL Confederated Provinces." i rl J ' '■I 1 Pi i i. 106 " Recent events serve to show that in a few months that " union will be effected, and the Committee have no doubt " that the Confederate Government and Legislature will feel it to be one of their first duties to open negotiations viith the Hudson's Bay Company for the transfer of their claims " to the territory." li u DowNiNd Strkrt, 15th April, 1867. The Right Honorable Sir Edmund Head, Bart, Sir, With ro^oronco to the letter from this department, dated the 3l8t of July last, transmitting to you a copy of a Minute by the Executive Council of Canada dated the 22nd of June, upon certain questions pending with the Hudson's Bay Company, T am directed by the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos to acquaint you, for the information of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company, that His (}raco lias received a communication from tlio Delegates from Ih'itish North America ibrwarding copies of Resolutions adopted by them on the 3rd inst., including one, of which u copy is enclosed, upon the subject of the Minute above referred to. I am, Sir, Your most obedient servant, T. rUEDEUlCK ELLIOT. 107 Extract from Resolutions adopted at a Bleeting of the Delerjatcs from British Nortli America, lietd at tiie Westminster Palace Hotel, London, on the 2>rd day of Aiwil, 18G7. " Resolved — That this Conference, having had commn- " nication of an Order in Council of the Canadian Govern- " mcnt bearing date the 22nd June, A.D. 18GG, on the sub- " jcct of the claims of the Hudson's Bay Company, and a " proposition of certain parties to purchase * such portions' " of the North West Territory ' as may be capable of culti- " vation' arc of opinion that the views expressed by the " Canadian Covernment on both points are well founded, " and will be confirmed by the Parliament of Canada." Hudson's Bay House, London, April 16th, 1807. T. Frederick Elliot, Esq., &c., &c. Colonial Office. Sir, I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the ir)th inst., transmitting a co]»y of a Reso- lution adoi)tcd ;it a Meeting of the Delegates from British North America, held at the Westminster Palace Hotel, London, on tho 3rd inst., and in reply 1 have to re(picHt that you will convoy to His Grace tho Duke of Buckingham and Chandos my thanks and those of tho Committee of tho HndHotrs Bay Company. 1 have the honor to be. Sir, Your most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD. Governor. \ i|i i ! I I 108 Downing Street, 20th April, 1867. Tlie Right Honorable Sir Edmund Head, Bart., &c., &c. Sir, The United States' Minister at this Court having expressed to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs the wish of his Government, that an arrangement should be made by which the United States' troops should be allowed to cross the British North American boundary in pursuit of Indians, I am directed by the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos to transmit to you a copy of a despatch c 'i the subject, which Lord Stanley has addressed to Her Majesty's Minister at Washington. Before communicating with the Foreign Office on this question, his Grace is desirous of being in posses- sion of any information which the Hudson's Bay Company can aftbrd, as to any pro> iiuon made by them for preventing the Territory which they occupy from becoming a place of refuge to Indians, who may have commiitcd outrages in the Territories of the United States. I am to request the favor of an early reply to this letter. I am, Sir, Your most olK'dient Servant, T. FilEDElUCK ELLIOT. 109 Foreign Office, 13th April, 1867. The Honorable Sir F. Wright Bruce, G.C.B. Sir, Mr. Adams called on me this morning and made the following communication on the part of Lis Govern- ment. According to reports received from Dakotah, the emigrant road which runs from Eed River and for 600 miles to the westward, in a direction parallel to and within a distance of 100 miles from the boundary between the United States and British North America, is infested by Indians hostile to all white men, who commit every kind of depredation and atrocity, and retreat when pursued to the north of the boundary, where they take refuge in British territory. Mr. Seward is anxious to know whether any arrange- ment can be made, by which the United States' troops shall be permitted to follow these savages to a reason- able distance over the boundary. Mr. Seward docs not attempt to claim such permis- sion as of right, and he adds that tlio United States' Government are (piite willing that any concession thai nuiy be made on our part sliall be subject to any reasonable safeguard, and to any limitation as to time, which it may be tiiouglit ncficssary to impose. Mr. Adams was further instructed to assure me, that, if Her Mnjesty's Government found tlicniselves coni- ' i, I' ! ■ I ,' 1 no pelled to decline this proposal, the Government of the United States would he ready to consider any other plan I might have to suggest for the object which they had in view. I told Mr. Adams that the subject should be consid- ered, but that I must reserve my reply until I had consulted with the Colonial Department. I have the honor to be Sir, Your most obedient Servant, STANLEY. i^. Hudson's Bay House, London, 24th April, 1867. To FiiEDERicK Elliot, Esq., , witli letter ul' Sir Edmund Head to Mr. Cliiehester Fnrtescue. Juno 'JiJrd. u In two letters, dated April 28th and June 23rd, 1864, sir Ednnmd I enclosed a copy of correspondence relating to a ("ihichester* demand made by Major Hatch for extradition of a !' "' m^'^!'"*/ •' •' April 28tli, person guilty of theft, and other papers connected ii^(»4. therewith. In the latter of these letters I said : ^n- Ednmnd Head to Mr. Chichester " The Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company Forti'sciic. " are not aware that they possess any power to give i8G4. " instiuctions to their officers in the matter of the 1 i n 114 " extradition of persons, charged with offences by the " American authorities. They will be glad therefore to " receive the directions of the Secretary of State in this "matter, as the subject presents peculiar difficulties "where there is no officer representing the British " Crown. " The Committee are ready to take any steps properly " within their competence, but they are anxious not to " overstep in any way the powers which they lawftilly " possess." ii Sir Frederic "^^^ ^^^ question thus aske 1 or implied, the only Rogers to Sir answer received is the letter of August 5th, 1864, in Edmund _ *= ' \ Head. which Governor Dallas's view of the special case in ' ' question was approved and the opinion of the Law Officers that the Extradition Treaty was applicable to the Hudson's Bay Territory was conveyed to us. No instructions, however, have been given as to the com- petence of the Company's Officers to carry out its provisions, without a commission from the Crown. To this question I would beg leave to solicit the attention of His Grace the Secretary of State. The Charter evidently intended to limit the compe- tence of the Company in all matters relating to " peace and war " to dealings with nations " not Christian," and as the case of Indians pursued by the troops of officers of a civilized people, it is difficult to see how the necessary negotiations can be carried on without the direct authority of Her Majesty. There is another consideration of some importance connected with the subject of this letter. I allude to nplied, the only list 5th, 1864, in re to solicit the ^f State. limit the compe- ^lating to " peace not Christian," by the troops of Lcult to see how Iried on without 115 the fact spoken of in the following extract from a letter of mine to Sir Frederic Rogers : — ii u ii " With regard to the particular strip of country where the first overflow of settlers or miners may be '' expected from the United States Territory of Montana, I think it probable that the Hudson's Bay Company have no immediate interest or responsibility con- " nected with it. So far as I can judge from the " imperfect maps accessible to us, I believe that on the " north of Montana, there is a narrow belt running " along the 49th parallel, watered by streams which " fall not into Hudson's Bay, but into Milk River, a " tributary of the Upper Missouri. If this be so, tliis " strip of land, though British ground as being north " of the 49th parallel, is not included in the Grant " made by the Charter of Charles II. to the Hudson's " Bay Company. Sir Edmund Head to Sir Frederii- Ivogors. July 17th, isiu;. ?? I have instructed Mr. Arrowsmith to prepare from the latest authorities a sketch of the Frontier line })etween Pembina and the Rocky Mountains shewing the course of the streams. If I obtain this, I shall be happy to lay }> tracing of it before the Secretary of State. I believe myself that the strip of land in ques- tion does not begin until the Territory of Dakotah is passed, but, in the absence of any survey, it is impos- sible to make any positive assertion on the subject. I have the honor to be. Sir, Your most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD, Governor. II 2 Jl \\^ 116 Hudson's Bay House, London, June 21st, 1867. T. F. Elliot, Esq. Sir, With reference to my letter of April 24tli, I have now the honor of forwarding a copy of a map prepared by Mr. Arrowsmith, which shows the boundary between the United States and the Hudson's Bay Territory from Eainy Lake to the Rocky Mountains — so far as it is at present Imown. This map shews where the three Territories of Idaho, Montana, and Dakotah infringe on our frontier. His Grace the Buke of Buckingham will observe a tract shaded red, b'^ginning immediately to the west of the Rocky Mountains. This is supposed to be the ground, not included in the terms of the Company's Charter, inasmuch as the streams flow southward. How far it extends to the eastward we do not know, but if the line of high land marked as the " Grand Coteau du Missouri " is correctly laid down, it appears probable that it will reach to the 105" or 104" meridian of longitude. It is extremely probable that the Indians, in the course of the war with the United States, will be driven in the first instance into this tract of country, over which (if the Hudson's Bay Company are not entitled to it) there exists no government or authority of any kind. 117 The map, which I now forward, may be retained at present for reference at the Colonial Office, if it is likely to be of the slightest use. I have the honor to be, Sir, Yom* most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD, Governor. Downing Street, 2nd July, 1867. The Right Honorable Sir Edmund Head, Bart., (fee, &c. Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Ruckingham and Chandos to state that he has received your letter of the 22nd ult., accompanied by a copy of a map prepared by Mr. Arrowsmith, showing the boundary, so far as at present known, between the United States and the Hudson's Bay Territory, from Rainy Lake to the Rocky Mountains. I am desired to express his Grace's acknowledgments for this communication. The map will be retained for the present in this Oifice, as you are good enough to offer, and if hereafter it should be required at the offices of the Hudson's Bay Company, his Grace would pro- pose, if there should be no objection, to take a copy. I am. Sir, Your most obedient Servant, FREDERIC ROGERS. :; i > 118 Hudson's Bay House, London, July 12th, 1867. T. Frederick Elliott, Esq., &c., &c.. Colonial Office. Sir, I am directed by the Governor and Committee of the Hudson's B^y Company to transmit to you for the information of his Grace the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, the accompanying extract of a private letter, addressed to me by Governor Mactavish, dated Fort Garry, May 29th, 1867, on the subject of mining operations in the Saskatchewan district. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, WM. G. SMITH, Secretary. ! if JExtract of private letter from Governor Mactavibh to W. G. Smith, Esq., Secretary , Hudson's Bay Company f dated Fort Oarry, 29th May^ 1867. " It appears there arc a great many miners pros- " pecting in Saskatchewan this summer, and a strong " feeling of confidence exists that a strilce will be made; " if so tlie whole of the district will be crowded with ** miners, as it appears in a few dnyH they cnn get to " Jaspers from the Big Hciid of the Coluinbia, where " the uiiners arc very numerous, then I'roui the Missouris, " crowds may be expected; it all however depends upon 119 " gold being found, but a very slight success will suffice. " Mr. Christie tells me that one miner showed him " privately about £50 worth of gold, he had got in a " day or two, working near Rocky Mountain House, " but he could not remain at work for want of pro- " visions." I Downing Street, 23rd August, 1867. W. G. Smith, Esq. Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos to acknowledge your letter of the 12th ultimo, with its enclosure, on the subject of mining operations in the Saskatchewan district. I am desired to thank the Governor and Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company for this communication. I am also desired to state that the Duke of Buckinjr- ham and Chandos would be glad to be informed in what manner the Company are prepared to deal witli tlie influx of population which ia to be exi)ected, if the difficulty of supplying provisions should be overccmie. 1 am, Sii', Yom* most obedient Servant, T. FKEDEUICK ELLIOT. I 120 Hudson's Bay House, London, October 8th, 1867. T. Frederick Elliot, Esq., &c., &c. Colonial Office. Sir, I li. '*''• the Committee to imply a desire, on the i)art of Her Majesty's (xovernment, to transfer the Com})any's Territory to (/anada, by Konie negotiation not yet com- menced. The ])ositi()n of the Company is therefore entirely provisional in its character, and under such circum- stances, the Committee are not prei)ared to take the ret*]M)n«ibility of any steps to meet the contingency referred to in your letter. 1 have the h(Mior to be, Sir, Your nu)st (tbcdient Servant, EDMUxND HKAl), Governor. 121 Hudson's Bay House, London, 15th January, 1868. His Grace The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos. My Lord Duke, In addressing- this letter to your Grace on behalf of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Compimy, I think that some apology is necessary for anticipating- the official communication from the Colonial Office of the Resolutions passed in the Parliament of Canada, as well as the Address to be founded upon tliem, but as from the tone of the Debate in the Canadian Parlia- ment, and from the terms of the Resolutions passed there, it is manifestly the object of that Parliament to have the power to establish in the dominion of Canada, including the territory of Rui)ert's Land, Courts which shall have jurisdiction in all matters arising in any part of British North America, and ^lius to give power to the tribunals, so constituted, to deterniine upon the rights t laimed by this C^)mpany under their Charter — a course of proceeding which this Committee consider to be HO injurious to the interests of the Hudson's Bay Company, they are desirous to bring the matter before your Grace, and to submit their views upon the subject to Her Majesty's Government, before any assent is given or determination come to, in reference to Him- Majesty's n])])roval of the ])roiiose(l admission of Rupert's Land into the Union of British North Aiuerica. I beg to remind your (trace (hat the rights of this Company under their Charter have at various times !{ 1: '■ It :ii J 10O been brought under the consideration of the Govern- ment, and that the result of those discussions has been a clear and distinct recognition on the part of the Crown, that the general validity of the Charter cannot now be called in question, and in particular that the Territorial Ownership of the lands granted by the Charter, and the rights necessarily incidental thereto, must now be considered as valid. It is true that questions have from time to time been raised in Canada as to the extent of the Territory claimed by this Company under their Charter, and in some respects as to other rights which the Charter confers ; but while Her Majesty's Government have at all times declined to be any party to proceedings on the subject, the opportunity has always been afforded to the authorities of Canada to bring any questions for adjudication before Her Majesty in Council, a course to which this Company have always been prepared to accede, and which appears to be the only legitimate mode of deciding their rights, if they arc to be called in (luestion. The Canadians have altogether abstained from avail- ing themselves of the opportunity thus afforded them, but it is now obviously the object of the Canadinu Legislature to secure to tribunals of their own nomina- tion the decision of those riirhts. M ii I may hero state that, so far as the more political powcM's granted by tlu>. (Jhartcu' are concerned, such as Ihe rights ol' government, taxation or exchisive admin- istration of justice, the Company have long since ex- 123 pressed their willingness that these powers should be vested in officers deriving their authority directly from the Crown, but before any such power can with justice be transferred to the Colonial Government, I submit that the extent of the Territorial rights of the Com- pany should either be fully recognised, or that if the Canadian Government are desirous of procuring those rights for the benefit of Canada in general, they should in the first instance arrange with the Hudson's Bay Company the terms upon which they should be so acquired. But should the Canadian Legislature still desire that any judicial investigation into the Territorial rights of the Company should take place, such inquiry should be referred to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in accordance with the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown given so long ago as July, 1 857, JUS the only Tribunal to which ought to be delegated the construction of a Charter emanating from the Sovereign of Great Britain. This opinion your Grace will find at p. 404 of the Report from tlie Select Committee on the Hudson's Bay Company, ordered by the House of Commons to bo printed, the IJlst July and 11th August, 1857. I have the lionor to be, My Lord Duke, Your Grace's most obedient humble servant, EDMUND HKAD, Governor. . 124 Downing Street, 18th January, 1868. The Right Honorable Sir E. Head, Bart., K.C.B. Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 15th inst., relative to the proceedings of the Cana- dian Parliament on the subject of the Hudson's Bay Company. I am desired to state that the subject of this letter will not fail to receive the careful considera- tion of Her Majesty's Government. I am. Sir, Your most obedient servant, T. FREDK. ELLIOT. Downing Street, 18th January, 1868. The Right Honorable Sir E. Head, Bart., K.C.B. Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos to transmit to you for the information of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company, a copy of a despatcli wliicli luis been received from tlic Governor General of Canada, accompanied ])y a copy of the Ad(b'es8 to Her Majesty from the Senate and Commons of Canada, praying tliat ste])M may ])e taken for uniting Ruport's Land and tlie North-Wost Territory witli tlio Dominion of (/auada. 1 am, Sir, Your most obedient scrvaiil, T. FREJ)K. Ei.LlOT. 125 Lord Monck to the Duke of Buckingham. Ottawa, December 21st, 1867. His Grace The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos. My Lord Duke, I have the honour to transmit a joint Address to Her Majesty the Queen from the Senate and House of Commons of the Dominion of Canada, praying that Her Majesty will be graciously pleased to direct that an Order in Council may be passed in conformity with the provisions of the 146th Section of the British North Amei'ica Act, 1867, for annexing to the Domi- nion of (yanada, the Territory of Rupert's Land, and the Ked lliver Settlement. I havi the honor to request that your Grace will lay this Address at the foot of the Throne. I have the honour to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, MONCK. 1 ', TO THE QUEEN'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY. Most Gracious Majesty, We, your Majesty's most dutii'id and loyal subjects, the Senate and (commons of the dominion of (JaiiMchi, in Parliament assembled, hiuu])ly approach yoin* Majesty i'or the ])ur])()se of representing : m 126 That it would promote the prosperity of the Canadian people, and conduce to the advantage of the whole Empire, if the dominion of Canada, constituted under the provisions of the British North America Act of 1867, were extended westward to the shores of the Pacific Ocean. That the Colonization of the fertile lands of the Saskatchewan, the Assiniboine and the Red River districts, the development of the mineral wealth, which abounds in the regions of the North West, and the extension of Commercial intercourse through the British possessions in America, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, are alike dependent upon the establishment of a stable Government, for the maintenance of law and order in the North- Western Territories. That the welfare of a sparse and widely scattered population of British subjects of European origin, already inhabiting these remote and unorganized Terri- tories, would be mutually enhanced by the formation therein of political institutions bearing analogy, as far as circumstances will admit, to those which exist in the several provinces of this dominion. That the 146th section of the British Nortli America Act of 1867 provides fu* the admission of Rupert's Land and the North Western Territory, or either of them, into union witli C^anada, upon tlie terms and conditions to be ex])re8sed in Addresses from tlie Houses of Parliament of this Dominion to your Majesty, and whicii shall be api)roved of by your Majesty in Council. 127 That we do therefore most humbly pray that your Majesty will be graciously pleased, by and with the advice of your Most Honorable Privy Council, to unite Rupert's Land and the North Western Territory with this Dominion, and to grant to the Parliament of Canada authority to legislate for their future welfare and good Government ; and we most himibly beg to express to your Majesty that we are willing to assume the duties and obligations of Government and Legis- lation as regards those Territories. That, in the event of your Majesty's Government agreeing to transfer to Canada the jurisdiction and control over the said region, the Government and Parliament of Canada will be ready to provide that the legal rights of any Corporation, Company or individual within the same shall be respected and placed under the protection of Courts of competent jurisdiction. And furthermore that, upon the transference of the Territories in question to the Canadian Government, the claims of the Indian Tribes to compensation for lands required for purposes of settlement, will be con- sidered and settled in conformity with the equitable principles which have uniformly governed the British Crown in its dealings with the Aborigines. All which we humbly pray your Majesty to take into your Majesty's most gracious and favourable consideration. t; i ,. 1 II The Senate, ^ Joseph Cauchon, Tuesday, ITth December, 1867. ) Speaker. House of ('ommons, ) James Cockburn, Monday, 16tli December, 1807. \ Speaker. 128 Hudson's Bay House, London, January 25th, 1868. His Grace The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos. Colonial Office. My Lord Duke, I have the honor to acknowledge Mr. Elliot's letter of the 18th instant, enclosing a copy of address to the Queen, forwarded by the Governor-General of Canada, and to thank your Grace for communicating these papers to the Hudson's Bay Company. On this address I beg to request your Grace's atten- tion to the following observations on behalf of myself, as Governor, and the Committee of the Company. 1. It seems necessary, in the first place^ to distin- guish the two classes of rights conferred on the Com- pany by the Charter. Some of these are, no doubt, of a public or political character, such as belong to a proprietary Government, but others are practically of a private nature such as might have been vested in any individual subject, or any private Corporation clothed with no public functions of any kind. Of these latter, it is only necessary at present to refer to the right of private property in the soil and in the mines and minerals. Ii! Report of 1857 2. It may be that the public or political rights of p. 404, para- the Company are in the Charter ill defined, and of doubtful expediency at any time. It may be too, as the Law Officers, in their letter of 1857, appear to hint, that for any eft'ectual exercise they require the graph 2. 129 aid of the right of private property as vested in the Company by the same instrument. 3. The Committee need scarcely remind your Grace, that, so far from opposing a resumption by the Crown of the political powers of the Company, almost the first important step taken by them in 1863 was the adoption of the following resolution : — "Resolved that the time has come when, in the ^l'' ?,• ^^^^^ t" Sir F. Rogers. " opinion of this Committee, it is expedient that the Aug. 23, 1863. " authority, executive and judicial, over the Red River " Settlement and the South- Western portion of Rupert's " Land, should be vested in officers deriving such " authority directly from the Crown and exercising it " in the name of Her Majesty. " That the Governor be empowered to communicate " this Resolution to his Grace the Duke of Newcastle, " and to discuss the subject with him or with the " Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies, reporting " from time to time to this Committee thereon." 4. In the correspondence which ensued with the Mr. C. For- Colonial Office, it appears to be implied, on the part of e. Head. His Grace the Duke of Newcastle, that the fact of the ^^'■' ^^' ^^^** right of private property in the soil, being no longer possessed by the Crown, was one of the chief obstacles to a compliance with the suggestion made in the above Resolution. If this be fio, the very fact of iraking this objection involves an admission in favor of the Company. Most assuredly, if the Crown hfl'^l nlienntod its right of I c 1 V i 1i . ! i|j'^ ) I ) 1 1,1 ' ii tl '^'I» Letter of the Law Officers to Mr. Merivale. Appendix to Report, 1857, p. 40i, last paragraph. 1^ 130 property in the soil and minerals of the Hudson's Bay Territory, it had granted it to no other party than the Hudson's Bay Company, and by no instrument other than the Charter of Charles II. 6. In Mr. Fortescue's letter of March 11, 1864, an offer of a contingent money payment, as the considera- tion for the cession of the Territorial Rights of the Company was distinctly made by the Secretary of State. The proviso inserted in the postscript to that letter will be adverted to afterwards, and had reference only to the supposed rights of Canada. 6. It is unnecessary for the Committee to refer to the undisputed enjoyment of these rights, at any rate since the time of the Treaty of Utrecht. 7. In addition to all this it remains to quote the express words of the Law Officers in their letter of 1857, already referred to. — They say, " In our opinion the Crown could not now, with "justice, raise the question of the general validity of "the Charter; but that on every 1 ^al principle the " Company's territorial ownership of the lands granted, " and the rights necessarily incidental thereto — ought " to be deemed to be valid." Moreovei in a passage alluded to above, the Law Officers imply indirectly their belief in the validity in tliirt right of prirate property, when they say that " rights of government, taxation, exclusive administra- " tion of justice, or exclasive trade, otherwise than as a " consequence of the r'lyht of ownership of the land, *' could not legally be insisted on by the Company," 131 What other opinions of the Law Officers of the Answers to Crown may be found in the records of the Colonial 5823*"^' Office it is not for us to say, but the evidence given by the Right Honourable Edward Ellice, M.P., before the Committee of 1857, as to the opinions taken by him, both for and against the Company, is well worth refer- ring to. 8. One other point is a mere technicality no doubt, but it may be worth observing that the title of the Company to their land is an English title since it is granted " to be holden as of the Manor of East Green- " wich in our county of Kent in free and common " soccage." 9. The Committee do not intend to impute to the Mr. it Parliament or the Ministry of Canada any deliberate Fortescue to intention of violating such rights of the Hudson's Bay Mar. 11, 1864, Company as they admit to exist, but it must be remem- ^^^-^ 5^*1864. bered that a theory has been started and is referred to in the debate on this address, by which the admissions of the English Government and the opinion of the English Law Officers, as to the right of ownership in the soil, are directly negatived. It has been supposed, we believe, that France was in possession of these territories, or a large portion of them, when tht Charter was granted ; that they were therefore within the ex- ception which that Charter contains, with regard to territories belonging to any *' other Christian prince ;" and that this French title remained good and was transferred to the English Crown with Canada, at the final cession of that province by France. I 2 132 10. This is not the place for entering on a discus- sion of the facts and law involved in this argument, — an argument, as we have said, inconsistent with the continued recognition of the Company's rights, in various ways, by the English Government and their legal advisers for a long series of years ; but if this objection to the Company's title shall be presented in a tangible form before a proper tribunal, the Hud- son's Bay Company will be quite ready to meet it and demonstrate its futility. nife. 11. The very existence, however, of such a theory in the minds of the Canadian Ministers or the Canadian people is a sufficient reason why, in justice to the Company, it should be set aside, or its truth or false- hood should be conclusively tested, before their rights of property under the Great Seal of England, and in fact their future existence are placed under the legis- lation and the absolute control of Canada, Despatch of 12. The Committee cannot but feel that the Coni- t^LordMonck V^^V ^^^^ already had great reason to complain of the Juno 17, i«U6. (joursc pursued during the last few years. In 1865 the Canadian delegates sent to this country to promote the scheme of confederation solemnly " undertook " with Mr. Cardwell to negotiate with the Hudson's Bay Company. The answer ;;iven by the Committee was that they would be ready to consider any proposal. Lfittcr of Mr. The facts of this nndortaldng were rorited ngiiin in A *E. Hcn'i. "^ subsequent letter, as a reason why no otlior step should Feb.' 20, 1866. i,^ taken. 133 No negotiation, however, was opened, and in 1866 Minute of the Canadian Council resolved that such negotiation Letter Viom must devolve on the government of the Confederation, to sir E^Head when constituted, rather than on the government of J^iy -^i. 1866. ^ , m. . /. , , Mr. Elliot to Canada. This was confirmed by the resolutions of the sir E. lead, delegates in England of April 3rd, 1867. ^^''^ ^'' ^^^^• After all, when the Confederation is formed and its parliament has met, resolutions are passed and an address to the Queen is adopted, praying that the powers of legislation and government over the Hudson's Bay Territory and the North-West Territory may be conveyed to C&nsida, first, and that the judicial decisions or negotiations as to the Company's rights should take place afterwards. 13. We desire in the first place to remark that this inversion of the order of proceeding is entirely contrary to the expectation raised by the acts of the delegates and by the communications from the Colonial Office to us. We may have erred in thinking so, but certainly wo conceived that the negotiations, which the delegates in 1865 undertook to initiate, were intended under the act of last session to form the preliminary step for transferring the supreme control to Canada, — not to follow after such transfer, with all the disadvantages to the Company, which must tluis ensue from the change of the relative position of the parties. It would appear too, iVom a ])as8age in a speech of the ITiniornblo Mr. Holton in the Cnnadinn iiurliaincut, as reported in the Canadian News, as per extract lierewith, that the Committee were not tlie only parties who supposed this to be the intention of Government. The Connnittee, i Si. M' I 1 134 liiureovcr, tliouglit that it was expressly, in anticipation of this original undertaking to negotiate, being thus carried out, that the Secretary of State for the Colonies intimated his wish in the following terms, that the Company should abstain from any other arrangements likely to interfere with the views then entertained : Mr. Elliot to a H is of course for the Hudson's Bay Company to Jan. 23, 1^07. *^ consider for themselves what course is most proper " and conducive to their own interests. But it appears " to Lord Carnarvon that any effective negotiation " being for the moment impossible, it is for the interest " of both parties that the question should remain open *' for arrangement, so soon as an authority exists cap- '* able of dealing with it on the part of the Colony or " Colonies interested. Ho would therefore regret to *' learn that the Company contemplate any immediate " action which was calcr^'itcd to embarrass the negotia- " tions, which would then become possible, and which, " in the opinion of the Executive Council, it would bo *' the duty of the Confederate Government to open." ,t ' :^{) k :u Vict., 14. The Committee felt no anxiety resjiecting the <-. ., stc. . ^.^1^ powers of transfer conferred on the Crown by the Act of last session, bccauHC thoy did not believe that tlieir rights of ownorship in the soil and minerals could be affected by it; and because, aft4.'r the undertaking to negotiate ionnally communicated to tliem and the correspondence relating to it, they relied, as they con- tinue to rely, on tlie honour and good faitli of tho Englisli Oovnnmenl. 1 0. But the case assumes u very different aspect if tho K^.j plan of giving to the Canadian parliament and govern- ment legislative and administrative control over these territories, without defining and providing for the rights '\nd interests of the Company, as a condition precedent, should be carried out. So far as we now see, no security of any kind would exist against such a use of this control in taxation and other matters, as might be thought best fitted for compelling the Company to accept any terms, hov.''evcr disadvantageous. No specific guarantee, it seems, is proposed to be given as to the legislation which might take place before thene claims were finally disposed of, or as to the impartiality and competency of the courts before which ihQ, Company, if aggrieved, would have to seek redress. At any rate the relative position of the two parties to any su(.'h suit or d'scussion respecting these rights, would, after the transfer of the legislative and administrative control, be one which must leave the Company, as Defendant, more or less at the mercy of the Plaintift', and would, to say the least, taint the voluntary character of any agreement to be subsccpiently arrived at. The only reliance of the v^'ompany would be on the honesty and the considerate disinterestedness of the Canadian ])ar- liament and people. TJie Committee moreover venture to think that their a])pre]ien8ions on this score an^ reasonably increased, rather than diuMnished, by all that is reported to have ])aHHed in the debates, and especially by tlie extract of the accompanying report of the speech of Sir John A. Macdonald, K.C. H., the Canadian ])remier. The report is taken from ilie Cana- dian News. It is probably (H)ndense(l, and as a matter of course it nniy be more or less inaccurate. ( ^l 30 & 31 Vict., c. 3. sec. 146. 136 16. The act cf last session provides that the incor- poration of Rupert's Land and the North- Western Territory with Canada may be made by the Queen — " on such terms and conditions in each case as are in " the addresses expressed and as the Queen thinks fit " to approve, subject to the provisions of this act ; and " the provisions of any Order in Council in that behalf ^' shall have effect as if they had been enacted by the " Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain ^^ and Ireland," ,m il: Now looking t« he ^^^revious correspondence between the Hudson's Ba} Company and the Colonial Office, it is not unreasonable to suppose that, so far as regards the Territory of the Company, the act contemplated the insertion of certain terms and conditions in any address relating to the transfer of such Territory. But the adth'css, a copy of which your Grace lias had the goodness to transmit to us, contains no " terms and conditions " whatever, except a vague assurance " that " the Parliament of Canada will be ready to provide ** that tlie legal rights of any corporation, company, or " individual within the same, shall be respected and " placed under the protection of Courts of competent "jurisdiction." Such an asHuranco is of little value wlien the party making it disi)utos the very existence of the rights in (lucstion, and at any rate it umounls to no more than a 8tat«»ment that British subjectH on British soil shall bo entitled to the protection of a court of law of some kind, hereafter to be established by the act of one of 137 the parties. It might bo presumed that redress before a competent .tribunal would be the right of any one who was wronged ; and such an assurance can hardly be deemed a " term " or " condition " of the kind which the statute intended to be set out specifically in the address from the legislature. 17. The Committee trust it may not for one moment be supposed that they arrogate to themselves any right, or entertain the smallest desire to impede or even to comment on the general policy of transferring the government of the North- West Territory and of the Hudson's Bay Territory to the Confederate Government of Canada. In this, as in everything else, they would bow with submission to the authority of the Crown, and rejoice in any measure which was really calculated to strengthen loyalty and promote union in British North America. 18. What is asked for as a matter of justice to a proprietary consisting of upwards of 1700 shareholders, who have paid a very largo sum on the faith of our Charter, and of the protection of their rights of pro- perty in the soil by English law, is the adoption, by Her Majesty's government, of one of the following alternatives : 1st. That some conclusive agreement, as to the extent, value and compensation to bo made for the claims of the Com])any, as owners of tlio soil and minerals, of the Hudson's Buy Territory, and some arrangement by which burthens assumed by them in their political capacity, such as the endowment of the U i U\ y I: I ll 138 Bishopric, may, when that capacity ceases, be trans- ferred to others, — bhould be completed hefore^ not after the transfer of the government of the North* Western Territory or Hudson's Bay Territory to Canada. 2nd. That, before any incorporation of Rupert's Land or the North- Western Territory with Canada, the rights of private property vested in the Company, and the exact limits of such rights, should be ascertained, acknowledged and efficiently protected by law, in a manr^.x binding on any Colonial government — so that they should not be at any time hereafter impeached or violated without proper compensation. I have the honor to be. My Lord Duke, Your Grace's most obedient Servant, EDMUND HEAD, Governor. ih ! Extract from a Speech of the Honorable Mr. Holton, in the Canadian Parliamenty as reported in the Canadian News, January 2nc?, 1868 — page 7. " It struck him too that what was in contemplation in the Union Act was that the address to Her Majesty should follow the negotiations, and that the address should set forth clearly and distinctly the terms on which wo were prepared to unite that territory with Canada." 139 Extract from a Speech of Sir John A. Macdonald, K.C.B., in the Canadian Parliament^ reported as above — page 9. " It had been said by the member for West Durham that this was a worse proposition than the proposition of 1865. It was precisely the same, it was simply that we wished to take possession of this territory and would undertake to legislate for it and to govern it, leaving the Hudson's Bay Company m ight except the right of asserting their title, in the best way they could, in courts of competent jurisdiction. And what would their title be worm the moment it was known that the country belonged to Canada and that the Canadian government and Canadian Courts had juris- diction there, and that the chief protection of the Hudson's Bay Company and the value of their property, namely their exclusive right of trading in those regions, were gone for ever. " The Company would only be too glad that the country should be handed over to Canada, and would be ready to enter into any reasonable arrangement. *' The value of the Company's intercKt woul ^. l)0 determined by the vuhie of their stock, iind wliat would that be worth when the whole country belonged to Canada," i 140 ; I ' I Downing Street, 23rd April, 1868. Sir Curtis Lampson, Bart., Sir, I am directed by the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos to acquaint you that he has had under his consideration the address from the Parliament of Can- r ada to Her Majesty, praying that Rupert's Land and the North- West Territory may be united with the Dominion of Canada and placed under the authority of the Canadian Parliament, and the letter from the Governor of the Hudson's Bay Company dated the 25th of January on that subject. Her Majesty's Government think that it will be right to comply under proper conditions with the wish expressed by the Parliament of Canada, and they propose to introduce a Bill for the purpose into the Imperial Parliament. They desire, however, to pay due regard to the interests of Her Majesty's subjects already concerned in the Territory, and with that view they will be prepared to make provision for any reasonable terms which may be agreed upon with the Hudson's Bay Company. Colonial Office ^ ^^^ desired to call your attention to the negoti- iith March, ations which took place in 1864 between the Secretary 6th June,' of State and the Company, as recorded in the corres- TT J . ' Ti T)ondenco referred to in the margin, and I am to Hudson s Bay ^ , 07 Company, rcqucst that you will state what are the terms which 7th' December, thj Company would bo prepared to accept proceeding ^^^^' on the principles then adopted, viz : that tne compen- sation should be derived from the future proceeds of 141 the lands, and of any gold which may be discovered in Rupert's Land, coupled with reservations of defined portions of land to the Company. I am &c., C. B. ADDERLEY. Hudson's Bay House, London, April 24th, 1868. The Right Hon. C. B. Adderley, M.P., &c., &c. Colonial Office. Sir, I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 23rd inst., addressed to the Deputy- Governor of the Hudson's Bay Company, and to inform you that the subject matter of this communication will be taken into consideration by the Committee, and a reply made thereto at an early date. I take this opportunity to inform you that I have this day been elected Governor of the Compnny, in the room of the late Sir Edmund Head, Bart. I have the honor to be. Sir, Your most obedient Servant, KIMBERLEY. ii'i m hiii ; ' '! 143 Hudson's Bay House, London, May 13th, 1868. The Right Hon. C. B. Adderley, M.P. Colonial Office. Sir, Your letter of the 23rd ultimo, which I have already had the honour to acknowledge, has been care- fully considered by the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company, and I am authorised by the Committee to make the following reply. The Committee wish in the first place to express the satisfaction with which they have learnt that Her Majesty's Government, whilst thinking it right to comply, under proper provisions, with the prayer of the Address to the Queen from the Parliament of Canada that Rupert's Land and the North-West Terri- tory may be united with the Dominion of Canada, desire to pay due regard to the interests of Her Majesty's subjects already concerned in the Territory, and with that view will be prepared to make provision for any reasonable terms which may be agreed upon with the Hudson's Bay Company. Before proceeding to state the conditions which they would undertake to recommend the Proprietors to accept, the Committee think it necessary to point out the important difference in the basis of the negotiations between the Secretary of State for the Colonies in 1864, to which you refer in your letter, from that of the negotiations into which his Grace the Duke of Buck- inglmm and Chandos now invites the Company to enter. ' ' y 'I 143 In the letter of Mr. Fortescue of March 11th, 1864, the first condition proposed by the Duke of Newcastle was: — " That within certain geographical limits (coinciding, " more or less with those laid down in your letter) the " territorial rights of the Company should be surrend- " ered to the Crown." These geographical limits are defined in the letter of Sir Edmund Head, of November 13th, 1863, as follows : — " With regard to the extent of the proposed Colony, " of which the seat of government would be Red River " or Fort Garry, the Committee presume that his " Grace would wish it to include the whole country " from the frontier of the United States to the North " Branch of the Saskatchewan, and to extend eastward " towards Lake Superior, as far as the frontier of " Canada, wherever the precise line of that frontier " may be found. Perhaps the most convenient limit " for the northern boundary would be either the Sas- " katchewan itself, or a line running from the Rocky " Mountains eastward through Edmonton House and " Fort Cumberland, and from the latter following the " Saskatchewan down to Lake Winnepeg. Nothing "would be gained by going farther to the northward " nor by including the eastern side of Lake Winnepeg, '' but from the mouth of the Winnepeg River, where it *' enters the Lake, the line of demarcation might be run " eastward imtil it cut the Canadian frontier some- " where nortli of Lake Superior or Luke Huron.'' ill n ' : 1 .1 H 144 From this quotation his Grace will see that the terms to which Sir E. Head stated in his letter of April 13th, 1864, that the Committee were willing to agree, referred only to a portion of the Territory held by the Charter, being that portion which it is supposed may be capable of settlement. Now on the other hand it is proposed, as the Com- mittee understand your letter, to extinguish the Com- pany's territorial rights in the whole of Rupert's Land, and to place the whole of Rupert's Land together with the North- Western Territory under the government of Canada. ■ i^: ml The Committee have invariably expressed their anxiety to offer no obstacle to any arrangement for facilitating the colonization of all such parts of Rupert's Land as can possibly be settled : they have only asked that reasonable compensation be secured to the Com- pany for its territorial rights, and in the letter of Sir E. Head of the 25th of January last, they disclaimed all desire to impede the general policy of transferring the government of the North- West Territory and of the Hudson's Bay Territory to the Government of Canada, but his Grace will not fail to perceive that there is a wide difference between the terms assented to by the Committee in their correspondence with the Duke of Newcastle, under which the Company would have retained the exclusive control over that part of the Territory where their fur trade is principally carried on, and the surrender of the whole of their territorial rights, and it becomes therefore of the utmost conse- 145 quence to the Company that such provisions shall be made as will enable them to carry on their far trade without interruption. Bearing these considerations in mind, the Committee are prepared to recommend the Proprietors to accept the following terms which, as his Grace will perceive, are based upon the terms proposed in Sir E. Head's letter of April 13th, 1864, with such additions as the altered state of the case seems to them to require. 1. That the Company shall surrender all the Terri- tory wl ich they hold under their Charter, with tlie reservation of all their posts and stations with an area of 6000 acres round eacn such post or station, — this reservation of 6001; acres however, not to apply to the Red Eiver Settlement. 2. That the Company shall be entitled to receive one shilling for every acre of the land surrendered, which shall be disposed of by the Government, whether by sale, lease or free grant or parted with in any other manner. 3. That one-quarter of the sum received ])y the Government as an export duty for gold and silver, or on leases of gold and silver mines, or for licenses for gold and silver mining, shall be paid to tlic Company, the amount to be received under this and the preceding article being limited to a total sum conjointly of one million sterling. ,1" i 146 4. That the Canadian Government shall confirm all titles to land that has been alienated by the Company at Red Kiver or elsewhere. 5. That whenever the Government shall have sold, leased, granted or otherwise parted with 50,000 acres, the Company shall be entitled for every such 60,000 acres to a free grant of 5,000 acres of wild land to be .selected by them. 0. That no tax shall be imposed upon any land belonging to tlic Company not under cultivation, and no exceptional tax shall be imposed upon the Company's other lands or property, or upon the Company's servants. 7. That the disputed matter of tlie Company's lands in Canada be settled by issuing grants on the footing iorniorly iigrced upon by Mr. Vankoughuet and Mr. Hopkins. 8. Tliat the Canadian Government shall take over from the Com])any all the materials for i\iQ construc- tion of the Telegraph, now in Rupert's Land and the Nortli-woat Territory, on payment of the cost price and the expenses alrcad" incurred, witli interest. 9. That full liberty to carry on their trade shall he secured to the Compnny, free from any special or exceptional taxation. 10. That until the millii)ly, tlie lioundary line between the Territory surrcnd(M'cd ])y the (^)mpany and the present Dcmiinion of (^inada will be ]»recisely defined before the cession in completed. I*> The Comnntlee desire me in ('((nclnsion to lefcr lo the letter of Sir M. Head, of ilie 'Jolh <»f .lanuary lasl, K L» il 148 and especially to the last paragraph of that letter. They feel confident that they will not be deemed unrea- sonable in asking that in transferring the North- West Territory to Canada, such provisions shall be made as may secure to the Company full liberty to trade as at present, as well as the (uimolested possession of their posts, stations and other property, free from any excep- tional duties on their property or servants. I have the honour to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, KIMBERLEY. Downing Street, 7tli August, 1808. The Eaul of Kimijeulky, My Lord, A IJill Jiaving now passed ilu'ouglj i)otli Houses of Parlijinient (U)uferring the necessary i)()wer for the surrender to Her Majesty by tlie Hudson's Bay Com- pany of their Territories and privileges on sucli terms as may bo agreed upon, I am directed by the Duke of Buckingliam and Chandos to transmit to you a (U)py of the Act. Tn your li()r(lshi])'s letter diifed tlie lath May last, there luv. ccrlaiu points in the tenus set fortii to which the Duke of Buclviu,uhaui and ChaiKJos wouhl not feci at liberty to agree iu their present shape. His (iracu 149 believes the best prospect of arriving iit an agreement satisfactory to both parties will probably be afforded by personal consultation. He would propose therefore to meet your Lordship at such time as may be con- venient for the purpose to your Lordship and to any members of the Company whose assistance you would desire. Some time in the ensuing month will probably be suitable. I have, &c., FREDERIC ROGERS. ANNO TRICESIMO TRIMO ET TRICESIMO SKCUNDO VICTORIA REGINiE. 'I CAP CV. An Act for cnahliny Her Majesty to accept a Sur- render upon TermSf of the Lands, PrivileyeSy and Rights of**The Governor and Company of Adven- turers of England trading into Hudson's Bay,* and for admitting the same into the Dominion of Canada. [31s< /«/y, 1868.] Whereas by certain Letters Tatent granted by TTi'h ]{,,,.it„i ,,r late Majesty King (>harles tlie Second in the Twenty- ,/''""'V'','/ second Year of His Ueign certain Persons therein named (inmpivny, were i;.C()r])()rated by tlie Name of" The Governor and C()ni])any of AdventuriTs of England trading mU) Hudson's Ray/' and certain liaiids and Territories, Hights of Government, and otlier I lights, Privik^ges, riil)erties, Franchises, Powers, and Autliorities, were thereby granted or purported to ')e granted to the said L>L' Car. 2. I'j. M ii:! |i ! f i' I) ii) • n':« 150 Governor and Comi)any in His Majesty's Dominions in North America : And whereas by the British North America Act, 1867, it was (amongst other things) enacted that it should be lawful for Her Majesty, by and with the Advice of Her Majesty's most Honorable Privy Coun- cil, on Address from the Houses of the Parliament of Canada, to admit Rupert's Land and the North-west- ern Territory, or either of them, into the Union on such Terms and Conditions as are in the Address expressed and as Her Majesty thinks lit to approve, subject to the Provisions of the said Act : Recital of And whereas for the Purpose of carrying into effect Surrender, the Provisions of the said British North America Act, 1807, and of admitting Rupert's Land into the said Dominion as aforesaid upon such Terms as Her Majesty thinks fit to approve, it is expedient that the said Lands, Territories, Rights, Privileges, Liberties, Fran- chises, Powers, and Authorities, so far as the same have been lawfully granted to the said Company, should be Burreudorod to Her Mnjesty, Her Heirs and Succes- sors, upon such Terms and Conditions as may be agreed upon by juid between Her Majesty and the said Governor and Company as iierein-after mentioned : Be it therefor(» enacted by the Queen's most Kxcellent MajcKty, by iind with the Advice i\tu\ (^>nsent of the Lords !Sj)iritual and Tenij»ural, and (/onimons, in this present Parliinnent Ms.sembled, and by the Authority of the same, as follows : 151 " riui)crt's Lund." 1. This Act may be cited as " Kiipert's Land Act, Short Title. 1868." 2. For the Purposes of this Act the term " Rupert^; Definition of Land " shall include the whole of the Lands and Terri- tories held or claimed to be held by the said Governor and Company. 3. It shall be competent for the said Governor and p^„ver to Company to surrender to Her Majesty, and for Her ^^^^ Majesty . '' _ J J J to accept Majesty by any Instrument under Her Sign Manual Surrender of and Signet to accept a Surrender of all or any of the lu'lTcSinpany Lands, Territories, Rights, Privileges, Liberties, Fran- "^T ^'-'^*^'^''- 7 7 o 7 ^ o 7 7 lerms. chises, Powers, and Authorities whatsoever granted or purported to be granted by the said Letters Patent to the said Governor and Company within Rupert's Land, upon such Terms and Conditions as shall be agree i upon by and between Her Majesty and the said Governor and Company ; provided, however, that sucli Surrender shall not be accepted by Her Majesty until the Terms and Conditions upon which Rupert's Land shall be admitted into the said Dominion of Canada sliall have been approved of by Her Majesty, and embodied in an Address to Her Majesty from both the Houses of the Parliament of Canada in pursuMiice of tlie One hundred and forty-sixth section of the Rritish North America Act, 1807 ; and that the said Surrender and Acceptance thereof shall bo null and void unless within a Month from the Date of such Acceptance Her Majesty does by Order in Council under the Provisions of tlie said lust-recited Act admit Rupert's Land into the said Dc minion; provided further, that no Charge shall be imposed by such Terms ui)on the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom. I M m 152 Extinguish- 4. Upon the Acceptance by Her Majesty of such Eights of the Surrender, all Rights of Government and Proprietary ompany. j^jgj^^g^ ^^^^ ^n other Privileges, Liberties, Franchises, Powers, and Authorities whatsoever, granted or pur- ported to be granted by the said Letters Patent to the said Governor and Company within Rupert's Land, and which shall have been so surrendered, shall be absolutely extinguished ; provided that nothing herein contained shall prevent the said Governor and Company from continuing to carry on in Rupert's Land or elsewhere Trade and Commerce. vi, Power to Her 5. jt shall be competent to Her Majesty by any Order in such Order or Orders in Council as aforesaid, on Address admit ° from the Houses of the Parliament of Canada, to SanciS^^^^l^^^ that Rupert's Land shall, from a Date to be Part of the therein mentioned, be admitted into and become Part Dominion of ■ - » /~a -, Canada, of the Dommiou of Canada ; and thereupon it shall be lawful for the Parliament of Canada from the Date aforesaid to make, ordain, and establish within the Land and Territory so admitted as aforesaid all such Laws, Institutions, and Ordinances, and to constitute such Courts and Officers, as may be necessary for the Peace, Order, and good Government of Her Majesty's .Turisdiotion of Subjects and others therein: Provided that, until 'and'onilMTH^ otlicrwise enacted by the said Parliament of Canada, all continnod. ^\y^, Po^crH, Authorities, and Jurisdiction of the several Couits of JuHtice now established in Rupert's Land, and oftiio several Officers lliereof, and of all Mngis- tnilcs and Justices now acting witliin the said Limits, shall continue in full Force and EU'ect therein. 153 KiMBtST^EY House, August IQth, 1868. Sir Frederic Rogers, Bart. Sir, I beg leave to acknowledge and thank you for your letter of the 7th instant. I request you will have the goodness to inform his Grace the Duke of Buckingham, that I shall gladly avail myself of his suggestion that I should have an interview with him during next month to discuss the terms proposed in my letter of the 13th of May last, and I will, when the time approaches, take an opportu- nity of communicating with his Grace as to the day and hour when it may be convenient to him to receive me and such other members of the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company as may accompany me. I have, &c., KIMBERLEY. Chairman, Hudson's Bay House, London, O'jtobcr 27th, 1868. The Right Honorable C. B. Adpeuley, M.P. Colonial Ollice. Sir, The Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company have received from Sir C. Lnmpson and myself reports of the interviews which we have had the honour to ^f* 'H 154 I '''I: i: have with liis Grace the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, on the subject of the proposed cession to Canada of the Company's territorial rights, and they have anxiously considered how far they would be justi- fied in altering the terms proposed in my letter of May 13th, with a view to meet the objections which have been raised to them. They understand his Gruce to suggest that instead of the Company being entitled to a free grant of 5,000 acres, to be selected by them for every 50,C^0 acres which shall be alienated by the Government, the whole Territory should be at once divided into sections on the map, and that a certain portion of each section should be allotted to the Company by fixed geographical rules, the Company taking the chance as to the value of the land which might fall to its share ; and further, that in order to meet the evils which might arise from the existence of so many blocks of wild land free from taxation, the exemption of the Company's wild land from taxes should continue only for a limited period, say for example twenty years. The Committee regret that they are unable to agree to this mode of allotment. One of the chief induce- ments to their shareholders to accept the proposed arrangements would be, that according to the plan of the Committee, if as it is hoped, the colonization of the country proceeded rapidly under the new government, the C()ni})uny would receive blocks of land of moderate size in tho vicinity of the new settlements, which would possess an actual value in the market. But if the plan suggested by the Duke of Buckingham were h loo adopted, instead of the grants to the Company pro- ceeding equally with the progress of colonization, the whole country would be dotted over with isolated tracts of wild land belonging to the Company, many of which even if ultimately available for settlement, must neces- sarily remain entirely valueless until long after the expiration of the twenty years, and if taxed would be a heavy burden instead of a source of profit to the Company. The Committee are willing, however, to agree that the exemption from taxes on the Company's wild land shall only apply to each block of 5,000 acres, which they may be entitled from time to time to select, for a period of twenty years from the date of selection. This would give the Company a reasonable time within which to turn each block to profitable account, and at the same time the ultimate liability to taxation would prevent these lands from becoming an obstructioti to the free progress of settlement. The Committee think it right to add that they do not propose that land purchased by the Company should be reckoned in the 50,000 acres ; and that the selection of the land by tlie Company naturally implies that the Company shall bear the cost of such a survey as may be necessary to define the land selected, it being under- stood that the Company shall have the option of making the survey by means of their own ofHcers. The Committee are also (juite willing that land granted for such purposes as roads, churches or schools shall not be liable to the payment of one shilling per '11 M lo6 1: acre to tlie Company, provided tLat tlio cxenipfcion is restricted to the land actually use ' in the construction of the work, and that the exceptions r-re specified in the agreement with Ine Government for the cession of the Company's rights. They also admit that it is proper that a similar exemption should apply to land set apart as Indian Eescrves, on the understanding that these rcsei vea will be made by Her Majesty's Govern- ment, as they are informed it is his Grroe's intention they shall be, before the Company's territory is trans- ferred to Canada, and that, if at any time before the million sterling is paid to the Company, such land shall be used or granted for other purposes, it shall become liable to the payment of a shilling an acre in common with other land. With respect to the land which the Committee have asked that the Company may retain as private property round their posts and stations, if 6,000 acres are thought to be too much in that part of Rupert's Land which is suited for settlement, the Committee will consent that the 6,000 acres snail only apply to posts which do not lie within the limits referred to under article 10 in my letter of May 13th, as laid down in Sir E, Head's letter of November 11th, 1863, and that within these limits the extent of land to be retained round each post shall not exceed 3,000 acres, all the lands retained to be free from taxation, except when reclaimed from a wild state. Lastly the Committee cannot deny tiiat the stipula- tion that tlio Committee shall have power to bring befuve the Judicial Committee of Her Majesty's Privy 157 'I >i »i Council, matters in dispute, is open to the objection that the Privy Council acts only as a Court of Appeal, and as they presume that the Company would be en- titled to appeal from the local Courts to the Privy CouKoil, they do not think it indispensable to insiwt on this demand. The Committee in declaring their willingness to make these alterations in the terms which they pro- posed, are actuated by a sincere desire to arrive at an agreement with Her Majesty's Government ; but they are conscious that they would be wanting in their duty, if they did not add that at the half-yearly Meeting of their Shareholders, held since my letter of May 13th was written, opinions were expressed strongly adverse to any arrangement for the cession of the Company's territorial rights which did not secure the payment as compensation of a sum of hard money. Sir Edmund Head, in the conchiding paragraphs of Lis letter of April 13th, 1864, in which terms were proposed similar to those now under discussion, but involving the cession of a part onlj of the Company's Territory, avowed to the Duke of Newcastle the appre- hensions of the Committee that it might be difficult to convince the shareholders that the offers then made were to their advantage ; and although the Committee have felt bound not to recede from tlie terms contained in my letter of May 13th, wliich were based on their former oilers, tliey cannot conceal from his Grace that tliey an{i(upate a very serious opposition on the part of their shareholders, to any such arrangement as that which they have put forward. t« ,! I" '1^ i il it' 158 His Grace will recollect that at our first interview, before the Canadian delegates had started for England, Sir C. Lampson and I strongly insisted upon this point, and that we suggested that if Canada would agree to pay to the Company one million sterling in bonds, such a settlement might be acceptable to our proprietors. The Committee entirely share this view. The more they consider the very complicated arrangements which have been devised as a substitute for the payment of a sum of money at once, the more they are convinced that it is as much for the interest of Canada as of the Company, that the claims of the Company should be provided for by a direct compensation, and not by contingent payments extending over a long series of years, and by grants of land under stipulations, which, although indispensable to protect the Company from spoliation, would be invidious in the eyes of the future settlers and embarrassing to the Colonial Government. At the same time the Committee desire me to assure his Grace, that if their terms as now modified are agreed to by Her Majesty's Government, the Committee will use all their influence to induce the proprietors to confirm them. I have the honor to be, 8ir, Your most obedient servant, KIMBERLEY. 169 i» Downing Street, 1st December, 1868. The Earl of Kimberley, My Lord, I am directed by tbe Duke of Buckingham and Chandos to acknowledge the receipt of your Lordship's letter of the 27th October, and to express His Grace's regret that the serious ilhiess of Mr. McDougall, one of the two delegates sent from Canada, which prevented His Grace from communicating with him, should have caused so long a delay in the answer. His Grace regrets to perceive that tlie letter under reply does not afford much prospect of an arrange- ment being come to. Her Majesty's Government, in the letter of Mr. Adderley of 23rd April to Sir Curtis Lampson, refer- ring to the negotiations which took place in 1864, requested to be informed " what terms the Company " would be prepared to accept proceeding on the prin- " ciples then adopted, namely, that the compensation '^ should be derived from the future proceeds of the " lands, and of any gold which may be discovered in *' Eupert's Land, coupled with reservations of defined " portions of land to the Company." To this your Lordship replied that the Committee were prepared to recommend : — 1. That the Company shall surrender all the Terri- tory which they hold under theii' Cliai'ter witli the reservation of all theii' posts and stations, with an area of 6000 acres round each such post or station ; this u li _ t : li : I 160 reWJTjration of 6,000 acres, however, not to apply to the Ked RivciSft'ttleiPjnt. 2. That the Compary shall be entitled to receive one shillinj^ for every acre of the land surrendered, which shall be disposed of by the Government, whether by sale, lease or free grant, or parted with in any other manner. 3. That one-quarter of the sum received by the Govern- ment as an export duty for gold and silver, or on leases of gold and silver mines, or for licenses for gold and silver mining, shall be paid to the Company, the amount to be received under this and the preceding article being limited to a total sum cov. jointly of £1,000,000 sterling. 4. That the Canadian Government shall confinn all titles to land tliat \\m been alienated by the Company, at Red River or elsewhere. 5. That whenever the Government shall have sold, leased, granted or otherwise parted with 50,000 acres, ''\e Company shall be entitled for every such 50,000 acres to a free grant of 5,000 aTcs of wild land to be selected by them. \ G. That no tax shall be imposed upon any land belonging to the Company not under cultivation, and no cxceptioniil tax shall be imposed r.i>on tlie Company's other lands or ])roperty or upon tlie Company's servonts. 7. That tlio disputed matter of the Company's lands in C^uuula be settled by issuing grants, on tlie footing fonnerly agived u]X)n by Mr. Vankoughnet and ^fr. Uopkiiu;. M. That tlie Canadian (iovernment shall takeover from the Company all the materials for the construction of the ICl "U-v Telegraph, now in Rupert's Land and the N/orfti-Wesfc Territory, on payment of the cost price and the expenses already incurred, with interest. 9. That full liberty to carry on their trade shall be secured to the Company, free from any special or exceptional taxation. 10. That until £1,000,000 sterling stipulated by articles 2 and 3, shall be paid to the Company, no export duties shall be levied by Canada upon Furs exported by the Com- pany, and no import duties shall be levied upon articles imported by the Company into the North- Western Territory, and into that part of Rupert's Laud which is not included within the geographical limits laid down in Sir E. Head's letter, of 11th November, 18G3 ; the Company to be further entitled to import goods in bond, free of duty, througli any part of the surroudored territory into tha Nortli-AVcs'crn Territory and the aforesaid piu't of Rupert's Land. » Lastly, that in order to afford to the Company a guarantee for the duo fulfilment of these provisions by the Canadian Government, power shall be given to the Company to bring before the Judicial Committee of Her Majesty's Trivy Council for decision, any matters connected with the carry- ing into offect the foregoing provisions, in respect of which they may consider themselves aggrieved. His Grace intimated in reply that there wore "certain " points in the terun sot forth to which he would not feel ** at liberty to agree in their present bIuii)0 :" and at the meetings whicli ensued, His Grace expressed his strong objections to the principle of tho proposals of the Company f" \^ I ''i^i 9(11 if 162 respecting reserves of land to be selected from time to time at the discretion of the Company, and to the principle of gpeciul exemption fi'om taxation in their favor, and ex- pressed his opinion that there were many points in the other proposals requiring material modification. Your Lordship's present letter intimates that the Com- pany are unable to agree to certain modifications which suggested themselves during the discussions as modes of avoiding the objections entertained by His Grace, and pro- ceeds to state the changes which the Company are willing to agi'ce to, and which His Grace understands to be as follows :■- 1st. That the exemption from taxes on the Company's wild land shall only last for a period of twenty years from the date of selection. 2nd. That any lands purchased by the Company shall not reckon in the quimtitics of 50,000 acres, in respect of which the Company should be entitled to select 5,000 acres. 3rd. That the Company shall bear the expense of survey- ing their blocks of 5,000 acres. 4th. That lands granted for such puqwses as roads, churches, or schools, shall not bo liable to the payment of one shilling per acre to the Company. Bth. That the same exception shall apply to lands set njMirt by ITtr Majesty's (Jovcrninent as Indian Rosorvcs bei'uru the Company's Territory is transferred to Canada. 0th. That with regard to land ui'ound }H>Bts beyond what 163 is designated the fertile belt, 6,000 acres shall be granted, and that only 3,000 acres shall be the quantity within that belt. 7th. That the proposed recourse to the Privy Council as a Court of first instance shall be abandoned. sot rvcs hat His Grace is unable to recommend the adoption by Her Majesty's Government of such terms for the surrender of the territorial rights of the Company. Whatever be the future Government of the territory, whether by the Hudson's Bay Company or by Canada, or by any other authority, very considerable annual outlay will have, as in all other unsettled countries, to be incurred in clearing roads, maintenance and opening of navigation, &c., and surveying. For these charges the produce of the early sales of land is the natural resource. But by the Company's proposals they would deprive the future Government of luiy prospect for a long time at least of receiving any income. 1st. They first stipulate not for a share of the receipts from land, but for a definite sum per a^ire, a sum in all probability far in excess of what is likely in practice to bo obtained for the greater portion. 2nd. They stipulate that they shall retain certain reserves ai\>uiHl their i)0Rt8, amounting, therefore, according to tho ListH olToHts handed \u by Sir C. Lmn])R(>n, to upwards of 500,000 JU'.roH of tho hind m(»Rt likuly to be made avuilablo for Ht'tllcnuMit and siilo, us being the hind surrounding tho establishod posts qf tho Company, which they have after l2 I? •I 164 long experience retained as the most advantageous positions for trade and occupation, and of which nearly 100,000 acres suiTound the posts in what is called the fertile belt of the territory. 3rd. And that they shall also receive a share of mineral rights and confirmation of all titles. 4th. They proceed to stipulate for a farther reserve of one tenth of the whole territoiy, and that the Company shall have this tenth in blocks of 5,000 acres to be selected as each successive 50,000 is alienated, and not merely to select in the same locality, but anywhere, so that, for instaiice, if land is alienated in the higher parts of the Rocky Mountains at Jasper House, for example, in consequence of the mining operations in that District, or for fishing stations, or mining purpos'^s on the coast of Hudson's Bay or Labrador, the Company should be entitled to select the proportionate reserve in such part of the most fertile region as they may consider will realise the utmost profit to them whether by its cultivations or development, or by its power of obstruc- tion to others. These lanc^ lorcovcr, are to bo exempt from taxation for a period twenty years from selection, and the lands retained rou.iu the posts to be entirely free IVoiu taxation unless reclaimed. These conditions TTis Grace cannot accede to. His Oraco would, however, recommend ITcr Majesty's flovornment to agi'ce to tt surrender on the following conditions :— 1. That the land to bo retained by the Company in the 165 neighbourhood of their posts shall vary according to tho importancG of the post : in no case whatever exceeding 6,000 acres in all for any one post including the cultivated or reclaimed land now occupied, and in no case exceeding 3,000 acres within the fertile belt for principal posts, and 500 acres for minor posts ; the additional land retained to bo set out so as not to include frontage to rivers or tracks, roads or portages. 2. The Company to receive one-quarter share of receipts from land. If any free grants of land be made for other than public purposes such land shall be deemed to have been sold at Is. per axire. 3. That one quarter of the sum received by the Govern- ment as an export duty for gold and silver or on leases of gold and silver mines, or for licenses for gold and silver mining shall be paid to the Company, the amount to be re- ceived under this and the preceding article being limited to a total sum conjointly of £1,000,000 sterling. 4. Thau tho Imperial Government shall conllrm all titles to lands that have been alienated by tho Company at Red River or elsewhere. 5. That tho Company sliall have the option of selecting five lots of not less than 200 acres each in each township, whenever it is set, on i)aynient of rateable cost of survey. 0. That no exceptional tax shall be imp;)sed upon tho Company's lands, trade, or sorvants. 7. The full liberty to carry on thuir trade shall bo sccurod to the Company. SI i! i'fe ll! 166 8. The Company to have similar reserves jTranted them in connection with theii* posts in the North-West Territory. 9. Tho boundary lines between Hudson's Bay and Canada to be defined, and between Hudson's Bay and North-West Territory to be defined b;y a natural or geographical boundary agreed on. 10. No wild lands to be taxable until surveyed and marked. 11. That whenever the payment of £1,000,000 sterling under article 3 shall have been made, as therein provided, in cash or otherwise extinguished by any payment or commu- tation by Canada to the satisfaction of the Company, the rights of the Company to further selection of lots, to royal- tics and share of land receipts shall cease. 12. Such lands as Her Majesty's Government shall deem necessary to be set aside for the use of the native Indian population shall bo reserved altogether from this arrange- ment, and the Company shall not bo entitled to the payment of any share of receipts or any royalty therefrom or right of selection in respect thereof, under previous articles, un- less for such part, if any, of these lands as may bo appro- priated with the consent of the Crown to any other purpose than that of the benefit of the Indian natives. If thpso terms nro n])prov('d Tier Majesty's Covommont will b(i prt-parcd (o ('oncliido an arrnn,u:(>nionl, and to submit it to the Cnnadian (Government for their favourable considera- tion ; but if tlic Company shull not assent to these condi- 167 tions, Her Majesty's Government will consider themselvefe unpledged by any of the offers that have been made. I am, My Lord, Your most obedient Servant, 0. B. ADDERLE Y. Hudson's Bay House, London, 10th December, 18G8 Sir FiiEDERio Rogers, Bart. &c., &c., &c.. Colonial Office, Sir, I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt on tli( 8th inst. of Mr. Addcrlcy's letter dated Downing Street, Ik December, and I have to state that the contciits will be without delay, taken into consideration by the Conunittcu the Hudson's Bpy Company. I have the honor to be. Sir, Your most obedient servant, 0. M. LAMPSON, Deputy Clovemoi'. '^ 168 Hudson's Bay House, London, December 22nd, 1868. Sir Frederic Rc '. iS, Bart., &c., &c., &c Sir, Referring to my letter of the 10th inst., I have the honor to state that the Committee have summoned a General Court of the Proprietors of the Hudson's Bay Company for Tuesday, the 5th of d. v\s: hf the purpose of electing a Governor in the room «.. tht K ;Tjht Honorable The Earl of Kimberley, and propose lo postj :^ sending in their answer to Mr. Adderley's letter of the 1st inst., until after such election has been held. I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient Servant, C. M. LAMPSON, Deputy Governor. Hudson's Bay House, London, December 22nd, 1868. Sir Frederic Rogers, Bart., &c., &c., «Scc. Colonial Office. Sir, I have the honour to enclose for the information of the Right Honorable the Secretaiy of State for the Colonies extracts of letters rccenlly received from Covcrnor Mactavisli, dated Fort (jiarry, Red River Settlement, October 10th and November 11th, from which it ..1 bo seen that the Ounu- 169 dian Government have intimated, through an Agent sent to Red Kiver by the direction of the Canadian Commissioner for Public Works, their intention to construct a road from Fort Garry to the Lake of the Woods through the territory of the Company. A trespass upon the freehold territory of the Company must be committed in order to carry out this inten- tion. The Committee cannot but look upon this proceeding as a most unusual and unproper one, especially as negotiations are at present pending for the transfer of the territory of the Company to Canada. This trespass will be an ;ct' ' en- croachment on the soil of the Company, and t> ,t tc by a Government which has constantly up to this />.6 ad still disputes the right of this Company over that soil. The Committee, therefore, ask for the intervention of Her Majesty's Government, but, at the same time, they beg leave to say that any application by Her Majesty's Government or the Canadian Government for permission to make this roo ' will be favorably entertained. V f: I have the honor to be, Sir, Your most obedient servant, C. M. LAMPSON, Deputy Governor. I Extracts roferml to in tJw fongoinr) Mtn, " FouT Gaiuiy, October 10th, 18G8. " I urn iuibriucd that the Caiiudian Guvcrmuciit have for- -^■■;1' 170 ^/arded, in charge of a Mr. Snow, a quantity of provisions which Mr. Snow has written to one of the merchants here to proTide freight tor from Georgetown, and appointed the 16th inst. as the date on which the supplies will bo at Georgeto^ni. Mr. Snow himself says nothing on the sub- ject, but it is announced here that he comes up for the pm'pose of superintending the making of a cart road from this place to the Lake of the Woods, and that the provi- sions he is bringing are to be used in payment of labor on the above road." " Fort Garry, ^ ovember 11th, 1868. " Mr. Snow, who I before advised you, was expected here to superintend the making a road from this Settlement to the Lake of the Woods with a view to opening direct com- munication with Canada, arrived some time ago and is now on the eve of commencing operations. He has brought in with him some provision'- with which ho pur- poses paying for labour on the road. On his arrival here he called on me to show his instructions from the Commis- sioner of Public Works. These contained nothing of any consequence beyond the expression of a hope on the part of the Conunissioner that the Company's Agent here would offer no opposition to Mr. Snow's operations, but would leave the matter entirely in the hands of the Imperial Government, which, as generally people hero regard Mr. Snow's arrival as opportune on account of the scarcity of provisions, I agreed to do, and without instructions to protest against Mr. Snow's action, I did not think it politic to do so." 171 Downing Street, 4th January, 1869. Sir Curtis Lampson, Bart. Sir, I am directed by Earl Granville to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 22nd ulto., stating that the Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company propose to post- pone sending in their answer to Mr. Adderley's letter of 1st December, until after the election of a new Governor, in the room of the Right Hon. the Earl of Kimberley, for which purpose a General Court of the Proprietors has been smn- moned for Tuesday, the 5th inst. I am to express Lord Granville's hope that the Committee will not allow any unnecessary delay to take place in coming to a decision upon the proposals contained in Mr. Adderley's letter. I am. Sir, Your most obedi nt servant, FREDERIC ROGERS. Downing Street, 28th January, 1869. Sir Curtis Lampson, Bart. Sir, I have laid before Earl Granville your letter of the 22nd ultimo, relating to an invasion of the rights of the Hudson's Bay Company, apprehended by them from certain steps taken under the authority of the Canadian Government. 172 A copy of your letter was by his Lordship's direction, forwarded to kSir G. Cartier and Mr. McDougall, with a request that they would famish any explanation it might be 16th January, in their power to afford respecting the proceedings of the 18G9. Canadian Government that were referred to; and I am desired to transmit to you for the information of the Hudson's Bay Company, a copy of the letter which has been received from those gentlemen in reply. I am, Sir, Your obedient servant, FEEDERIC ROGERS. Iff' I Sir G. Cartier and Mr. McDougall to Sir Frederic Rogers. (Copy.) Westminster Palace Hotel, London, 16th January, 1869. Sir, We have the honor to acknowledge receipt of your letter of the 30th ultimo (with its enclosure), stating that you were directed by Earl Granville to transmit to us a copy of a letter, which his Lordship had received from the Deputy- Chairman of the Hudson's Bay Company, relating to some steps which have been taken under the authority of the Canadian Government, and from which the Company appre- hend some invasion of their territorial rights. You inform us that his Lordship will be glad to receive from us any explanation which we may be able to ftmiish him, of the steps taken by the Canadian Government. 173 We have read the letter of the Deputy-Chairman and extracts from the letters of Governor Mactavish, and have much pleasure in being able to fiimish his Lordship with what we hope will prove satisfactory information on the subject of the Hudson's Bay Company's complaint. 1. In the month of September last, very precise informa- tion reached the Canadian Government, that in consequence of the complete destruction of their crops by locusts, the people of the Red River Settlement, numbering probably from 12,000 to 15,000 souls, were in imminent danger of starvation during the winter about to set in. 2. Numerous and earnest appeals for aid had already been made to the Canadian public by writers in the newspapers and by clergymen and others, acquainted with the country. The Right Reverend Robert Mackray, Lord Bishop of Rupert's Land, a member of the Council of Assinaboia, and so far a representative of the Company, visited Ottawa, and urged upon members of the Canadian Government the duty of prompt assistance to avert the threatened calamity. 3. No steps had then been taken (so far as the Govern- ment could learn), by the Hudson's Bay Company to provide supplies, and aware that a few days delay at that season might render it impossible to get provisions to Red River, in time to afford relief, the Canadian government appropriated the sum •f twenty thousand dollars (^20,000), towards the construction of a road from Lake of the "Woods to Fort Garry. The Minister of Public Works (one of ihe undersigned), was directed to expend the principal purt of this sum in the purchase of provisions, which were to be forwarded with all possible despatch, to the Red River % 4 174 'I, i^ttlemenfc, and offered to the settlers — not as alms, but in exchange for their labor on a public work, In their own vicinity, and of the highest utility to their settlement. 4. A confidential and experienced Agent proceeded at once to St. Paul's, Minnesota, and succeeded in forwarding a con- siderable supply of provisions before the close of navigation. A further quantity has reached Fort Abercrombie, an Ameri- can post in Dakota Territory, from which point it can be sent to the Settlement early in the spring. 5. Information has reached the undersigned since their an'ival in England, tliat the Government Agent had in ac- cordance with his instructionE, conferred with the local authorities on his aiTival at Fort Garry; that he had re- ceived their approval and promise of assistance, that his timely aid was a cause of much joy and thankfulness in the Settlement, and that he had proceeded with a large force of laborers to ilie limits of the prairie country, some 530 miles from Fort Gariy towards Lake of the Woods, and there com- menced the construction uf the road. C. The immediate object of the Canadian Government in taking the steps complained of, was to sup])ly food to a stanMng community, about to bo imprisoned for six months in the heart of a gi'cat "w iUlcmcBs, without roads or means of communication with their fellow Hul)ject8 — and to supply it in the way most aece])table to a high-spirited people — viz., in cxt'himgo for their labor. It was thought that even the IludHdu's Bay Company might look with favor upo!i a pultlii- work which, when comideted, will prove u valuable protection to those under tlieir Government, against similar dangers in the future. On behalf of the Canadian Govern- 175 x^ent we deny that a " trespass" has been committed or that our action in this matter was intended to forestall or embarrass negotiations which the Imperial Parliament had directed to be undertaken for the transfer of the North Western Territoiy and Rupert's Land to the dominion of Canada. The foregoing explanation may perhaps be deemed suffi- cient to enable Eiul Granville to answer the complaint of the Hudson's Bay Company against the Canadian Govern- ment, but the undersigned beg leave to add one or two observations which, in their opinion, this extraordinary demand for " the intervention of ller Majesty's Govern- ment," both invites and justifies. If the Hudson's Bay Company, who chiiui the right to hold and govern the terri- tory, in which the alleged trespass has taken place, had per- formed the first duty of a Government towards its i)eoplo by providing them with easy means of conuuunieation with the outer world ; or if they had shown themselves cither able or willing to meet the threatened calamity by a prompt effort to forward sufficient sui)plie8 to the Settlement before the close of navigation, the Canadian Government would have rested liappy in the belief that neither humanity nor public policy re(piired or justilied their interference. p <^ The Tflsertion of the I)eputy-(Jovernor of the Hudson's Bay ('umi)uny tiuit the country between Lake of the Woods and Red River is "tlie freeliold territory of tlH> Ciunpany," and that tlio bo called " trespuHs" of the Cuinuliun (loveni- mcnt in wending provisions to the starving Bottlers and uHsisting them to make a road for their own convcnionco and safetv hercul'ler, is " an actual encroachment on tiie soil (»f Il 176 the Company," might, if unnoticed by us, bo claimecl as another proof or admission of the rights of the Company in that part of the Continent. We, therefore, bog to remind His Lordship that the boundaries of Upper Canada on the ^orth and West were declared, under the authority of the Constitutional Act of 1791 to include " all the ten'itory to the westward and southward " of the " boundary line of Hudson's Bay" "to the titmost extent of the country "commonly called or kno^\Tl by the name of Canada." Whatever doubt may exist as to the " utmost extent" of old or French Canada, no impartial investigator of the evidence in the case can doubt that it extended to, and included the country between Lake of the Woods and Red River. The Government of Canada, therefore, does not admit, but on the contrary denies, and has always denied the preten- iions of the Hudson's Bay Company to any right of soil, beyond that of squatters, in the territory through which the road complained of is being constructed. We have, &c., GEO. ET. CARTIER WM. McDOUGALL. Hudkon'h Bay TTotmE, London, Junuur) 13th, IBOO. Hir FiiKDEUio RooKRB, Bart., Colonial Offlco, Sir, I have tlio honor to uorpiaitit you, for the inrtmna- tion of Karl (Iranvillc, tliat I nvjih elected ])y tlio Hharo- h»>ldei*H ("f thJH (Vunpany, on Tnesdiiy, the ^A\\ instant, to tho 1 / 4 h office of (rovernor, vacaiii l>y tlie res^iunaiion of the Earl of Kimberlev. « It now becomes niv dutv to aildri'ss vou in ivplv to .Mr. AdderleyV letter dated tlie 1st Deeeiuljer, 1808, which was received by my predecessor (tn the eve of \m resiffnation, and to which, in consequence of that event, the Committee have not been able to send an earh"er answer. li Before makino- any observations n)>on the ])articnhu' to})ics discussed in Mr. Adderlev's letter, I am desired bv the Com- mittee to assure Lord riranviile that they contiime sincerely anxions to promote the object, with a view t'o. viz., the jiTadnal settlement of such portions of their territory as adnui of colonisation ; that they adhere to the opinion exj)ressed in their resolution of the 2Hth Au;^ust, \Hi\:i, viz.. that the tiun' has come wlien it is expedient that the authority executive and judicial, over the i{ed I'iver Settlement and the South- western p(trtion of iiupert's Land should be vested in olliceis derivintr such anthority directly from the Crown: and that they cheerfully accept the deciHiun of Her .Majesty's (lovern- ment, comninnieated to them in .\h-. Adderley's letter of the 2'M'i\ April. IHOH, viz.. that the whole of the C<.mpany's ter- ritory shoidd. under proper conditions, be united with tiie dominion of Canada ami plneed undei- the authority of tlie ('anadian Parliament. Acliui;" in accordance with the wish (»f Her Majesty's Government as conveved lo ilxtn i'l Mr. Kllii'i's letter of the )i'>\Vi\ .laiMiary. IH«;7. the <"onnnittee have declined In encojiraL'e uvertmvs wliicli iiave been made to them by I f! 178 private persons fortliepureliasoof jKn'tions of the Coinpanv's territory with a view to tlieir colonisation, and have kept the wliole question in abeyance during" the time that the negotia- tions, which iiave led to the Confederation of tlie J^ritisii Provinces constituting the Dominion of Canada, were ])ro- cceding. Tn the whole of that time they have taken no ste]) which could give rise to fresh complications, or could ])lace any new difficulty in the way of the admission of their Terri- tory into the Confederation when the proper moment should arrive, and when they were informed by Mr. Adderley's letter of the 23rd of Aia'il, that (he Parliament of Canada had addressed Her Majesty upon tlie subject, and were reiiuested to state tile terms wiiich tlie Comi)any wonhl l)e i)re])ared to acce])t, proceeding on the ja'inciph' adoi)ted in the inter rupted negotiation of IHG4, tliey unhesitatingly complied with tlie desii'e of the (iovernmeiit. -V V: It iB therefore with surprise, as well as with regret, that they have learnt from the letter now under ri'jtly that the tenus projKised by them, even when most strictly in con- formity with the princi[»lc.s adopted in IHG4, are considered by Her Majesty's (jlovernmeiit to be inadmissible, and not to allbrd much jirospect of an arrangement being come to. Tluy liiid, for instance, that the stipulation that the Com- pany should receive one shilling [)er acre on lands hereal'tcr Bold, which was originally suggested to the Conunittee by His (Irace the littj Duke of Xewcimtle, in Mr. Fortescue's letter of Man h 11th. IH('.-1<. and which has nc\er hitherto been railed in (iiicshtdi, is tiie hrst pi>iiit to which exception is iUv\' Uihv '\ Obji.'clioUH art' j'Iho raised against several other |in|(.»il8 whicli have been long before the (lovern- lllH'it <\\\\U w notice at all i. taken of some whicli liuve 179 been made for the first time with a view to the protection of the Company's trade, and with regard to whicli the Connn'ttee are left in ignorance whetliei* they are considered admissible or not. The (N)mmittee, althongli somewhat embarrassed by this a])parent ehange in the s])irit of the Correspondence, dpsire me, however, to make the followin«( observations n])on .iomc of the remarks contained in Afr. Adderley's letter, in order that there may lu; ik* misiipprchcnsion as to the bcarinu; of their proposnls. The (V)minittee arc aware that, as is stated in Mr. AddcM'ley's letter, in oi'dcr to ])re])are the country for settlement very considerable ainnial outlay will have to be incurred, and that for this charge the produce of the early sales of land is the natural resource: but they are ai a l(»ss to understand u|)on what grouiul it is alleged that their jiroposals " would deprive the future government of the ceded Territory of any pros|Kct for a h)iig time at least of receiving any income." The iinly part of the territory in which it is probaldc that any early or extensive settlement will take place is the part known as the fertile 1m ' Iti nm lieen confideiuly asserted l»y independent perso «ho huvo travelled through the country that a great |>ari . this land is not inferior in (piality, or in advantages of ( uite, to the adjoining Ciiitcd Slates Territory, now for' ;• the Htate of iMiimcsoia, aial it has lurn justly pointed > thai, being prairie land, it does not recpiire nmeh lahor to render it Ht for cultivation. Ibu the price of land in .MiunrHotu ranges, iM the Couunittec arc infoiiui'd. IVoni five shillings to one lO inid pi'r aire The Coinniittn- think, there c. that the i *i \m\ 180 fixed payment of one shilling? i)ci' acre, proposed by the Duke of Newcastle and accepted by them as a baais of com- pensation, cannot be deemed to be unreasonable, in so far as relates to land sold, within the limits set forth in Sir Edmund Head's letter of the 11th Xovember, 1808. Ah rcjrards any portions of land lyin»( outside those limits which may possibly be sold, the Committee think it very improbable that such sales will take place, except for mininjj; purposes, in which case the payment of a shillinn- an sicre could hardly be deemed excessive. In order to save tntuhlo and to obviate disputes, therefore, the (^uumittee j)roposed the fixed i)ayment of one shilling i)er acre in respect of all sales wiierevw" they may take place, and they believe that the aTTungement would have been on the whole more favor- able to Canada than that suggested by Mr. Adderley. Mr. Adderley proceeds to remark, with reference to Lord Kimberley's proposal that the Comj)aiiy »<'M)uld retain (certain reserves arounvl their ])08t8. that the reservati »us would amount t(» upwards of /iUU.uno acres. It was, how- ever, stated by Liird Kimbevley and (he l)eputy-({overnor. at an interview with the ?>uke of ituekingham upon this subject, that the Connii ^.ee were willing to e(.(ifine their claim for reserves to the limits defined i>v Sir Kdmiind Ileud'H letter of the Uth November, 1«()8, that they were prepared to agree that such reservations should be measurt-d by the imiK»rti»nee of the posts to which they were t(» be attached, and should in no ease exceed Ji.OOO acres. The total (piantliy of land to be retained by the Company under this arrangement would n(>t <'Xv'eed 5(). indicntion bus been given. The ('ommittcc Htill ndbere lo the opinion that, under the pcculiiir circiuiist!tnc('s of the proposed tiinislcr <>i thrir W II 182 TerritoiT, it would bu reasonable that their wild lands should, tor a limited time, be exempt from taxation, in order to allow them a fair o]i])ortunity of bringinpj them into profitable cultivation. They observe that Mr. Adderley makes no reference to the 10th stipulation, contained in Lord Kimbcrley's letter of the 13th May, viz.— that until the stipulated sum of £1,000,000 sterlinf^ has been paid to the Company, no export duties shall br ^'^vied by Canada upon Furs exported by the Com- pany, nor any im]wrt duties on articles imported by them into the North-Wcstern Territory, and into thiit i)art of Rupert's Land which is not included within the p;eogTaphical limits laid down in Sir E. Head's letter, of November 11th, 18(58. This is a point to which the (V)nnnittee attached ver" ^reat importance. If it had l)een i)roj)osed by the Canadian (Jovernmcnt to make a direct i>urchasc of the Company's Territory, and to ])ay the price for it at once, the Company would of course, have accepted theii* fair share of the burdens which annexation nn^ht be ex]>ected to involve. But if the purchab< money is to be witlihcld until the (^iiia- dian (Jovernmcnt have sold oft' 20,000,000 acres of the land, or have realised a considirable sum l»y the ])roduc(' of miiiinj^ operations, it is reasonabk' that the pressure of the fiscal burdens, which would fall almost exclusively u[)on the (N>m- pany's trade, should be suspended also. Otherwise it mi^ht happen that, in conseugh the territory through which it is to pass were Canadian. Such a step, taken at a moment when negotiations are in ]irogi'e8s for the transfer of the Company's possessions to Canada, and taken by a (lovernment which o])enly dis]>ntes their title to this ]K)rti(»n of them, could not iiave Iteen allowed to )»ass unchallenged without derogating from the Comi)any's rights. The Cana- dian (iovernnient themselves seem to luive been alive to this. Mr. McTavish states that the Agent of that Govern- ment (Mr. Snow) on arriving at the Red Kiver, connuuni- cated to him his instructions from the Commissioner of Public Works in Canada, containing the exinession of "• a " hope on the part of (lie Connnissioner that the Company's " Agent here would oll'er no op])osition to .Mr. Snow's " operations, bnl would leave (lie matter entirely in the '" hands '-f the Imiterinl Government.'' Governor McTa- vish, npon this, vrry properly allowed Mr. Snow to nr,m- 1> '■I 1 IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) 1.0 I.I 1.25 1^ mil 2 2 t us. 1.4 12.0 1.6 e sums, both by direct j^rants and by subscriptions raised under tiieir auspices foi' that |)urpose, at a ])eriod anterior to tlie approjiriation of the Canadian road ^"rant. 'I'hey would also be able to ])oint out iiow the delay which has occurred in oi)eniii,i;' up conuiiunications and otherwise developini;' the resources of the Red Itiver Settlement is due to the restraint which has been imitosed U])on them by Her Majesty's (iovei'ument at the re(|uest of Canada, and not to any ne^'ligence oi' indilferciice of their own. Hut the Committee desire to avoid the raising* of a fnlse issue, and they accordin]ni)a]iy's uninterrupted possession of the territory Ibi- two centuries, and to the numerous and weighty lepd opinions which liave from time to time been yiven in their favor. In aj)])ealinL^' to Marl (Jranville Ibi* sii])poi't in this matter, instead of enterinj»' into a controvei'sy with Canada, oi' hikinji" lej^al steps to ciilbrce the Company's rij>iits, thi; Committee have been actuated by a desire to ja-oceed i'.s i'ai' as possibh; in accordance nith the views and wishes of Her Majesty's (fovernment, m they have eiidea\(»ured to do thi'oiis^hout Hu; ]»en(h'n<;' ne^'otiations for the establisinnent of a settled form of ({ovei'nmeiit at the Itcd b'iver. 'Hiey desii'e now respect- fully, but coididently, to claim (he support and ])rotection of the Colonial Minister a.n'aiust any invasion of the Company's riji'lits which may have l>een prompted or facilitated by the policy which they have adoiitcd in order to nu'ct the wishes of the Colonial Ollice. I I lisve. Ac STAFl'^OKJ) II. NOimiCOTK DoWNINd SrilKKT, 2'Jnd I'Y'brnary, I HOP. The b'i.nht Honorable Sir StakI'OIii> Noiitiicotk, M.P. Sir, I am directed hv IliU'l (Il'iuiviile (o eiic|ot>c. |bi' the IS« :| if I information of the J)irectors of tlic Hudson's Bay Company, the copy of a letter wliich liis Lordslii]^ has received ft'om Sir G. Cartier and IVFr. McDon^rall. As the greater part of that letter relates to matters on which the Company and the Colony cannot be expected to agree, and on which Her Majesty's Government has no authority to decide their differences, Lord Granville has felt some doubt whether the settlement of the question would be advanced by forwarding this lettei'. He considers it, however, necessary to do so ; and in doing so, to ex]>lain clearly the position which he considers himself to occu])y. • It api)ears that his Lor(lshi])'s pivdecessor entertained the hope that lie would be able to arrange the terms of a com- promise, under which, with consent of both parties, the sovereignity of the Hudson's liay (V)m])any's Territory would be transferred to the Dominion of (^nnvda. With this view his Grace made to the Company a pro- ])08al, respecting which Sir (J. (^u'tier and Mr. McDougall write as foHows : — "The jtroposais sulimitted to the (\)m])aiiy by the late " (Joverinncnt in the letter of Mr. xVdderley of the 1st " December lasl, were not nuide at our suggestion, although *• we were disposed to think (and so informed his (h'oce) *' that if the (Nim];any accepted them the Canadian Purlia- ** ment might he persutideil to undertnke the duties of " legislation and government in the territories on the con- '* ditions specified." Your letter of the |:ilh insl. nniy Iw considen'tl us a rejee tioii of those pro|)(isiils, uiiil as thus Icrniiintting the negtitia- 180 pro- tions instituted by tlie Dnke of BuckiiiuliMm and Chandds. But in your letter you propose that the matter should be settled by the immediate payment of a fixed sum of money or by the deliyery of Bonds, and you exj tress yourself i)re- pared to enter into furtlier eonumniieation \\ith Lord (Irun- ville on this sul)jeet. It is of course ol)vious tliat this nej>'otiation for the purchase of the Hudson's Bay Company's '^Perritoiy is really between the seller and the buyer, the Com] )any and the Colony, and Lord (Iranville is of opim'on tliat if tlie nejiotiation is reyived on this or any other l)asis. Her Majesty's (govern- ment can, at ])Vesent, do no yood l)y assuming- to frame or su^fi^cst terms of aeconnnodation : but can merely oiler to act as a channel of connnnin"cation between these two real ])urties to the transaction, nsinu' its best endeavours to remove any difficulties not inherent in the nature of the case. Actin<>' on this view Lord (iranville eonnnuiiicated to Sir (i. Cartier and .Mr. McDonjiall a cojiy of vuur let lei' of the I.'ith. The eni;l(tsure to (his letter is the answer which he has received. The nuiterial sentences, for the present |>nr|)ose, are tlntse with which the letter concludes. Yon will observe that the Kepi'esetitatives of the Colony Htate the princii)les on which they couwider tlu' cost of the territory shonld be i-alcnlated. indicating- the opinion that the snni of ,tl()t;.t;H is the hi,<;hest which could on any hypothesis properly he demanded by I lie Coniiiany; and express their sti'oiiu' conviction that no money oiler, whieli either the Imperial or Canadian (lovernnienl would deem m 190 reasonable would be accepted ]>\ the CV)in])aiiy. Assuming- this to ^e the case, they asl< on the part of tlic Dominion (Jovcriinient either the immediate transfer of tlie sovereignty of the wliole 'I'erritory, subject to the rif>iits of the Company, or a transfer of the sovereignty and })roperty of all the terri- tory not lieretofore validly granted to, and now held y>y the Com))any nnder its Charter. Under these circumstances, Karl (Iranville directs me to coiinnunicate lo yon the enclosed letter, which taken in comiexion witii previous correspondence, a[)pears to him to leave little present hojie of bringing nuitters to a settlement l)y way of compensation. if the Directors of the Com]>any should still tliiidc any such arrangement possible, his L(trd- ship will of course be prepared to transmit to the Canadian representatives any modified i)ro})osal on tiie part of the Coin])any. l-'ailing this, he thinks it proper to invite from the Dii'ectors, not any argument respecting the true natnre and extent of the (\tm])auy's claims from wiiich.as not being belbre a court of law he could anticipate no result, but a statement of any objections they may liave, whether of ])rinciple or detail to the twocoiniter ))roi)osals now made by Sir (J. Cartier and Mr. AFcDongall on behairof the Canadian Dominion. And it might Mot be immaterial to add what (lourse the Company wonid prdjxtse to take, Ibr secni'ing that life and propci-ty ai'c ad<'(|ni.iely jtrotected. and international obliga- tions didv peiTornu'd in their Territ/orv, so long as thev renaiin resjionsible for its govermnent.. I iim, Sir, Your most obed'eiit Servant, i^MiKDlOillC JH)(ii:US. (Confidential.) Sir, 191 Westminster Palace Hotel. London, Febniaiy 8tl), 18G'J. We liave tlie honor to {ioknowledi>-e tlie receipt of yonr letter of the 18tli nltinio, enclosiiio- u (;,)|)y of Sir Stafford Xoi'tlicote's letter of tlie 13th nltiiiio, in re])ly to l)ro])osals made to the Hndson's Bay Coini)aiiy for the cession to the Crown of their territoi'ial I'iuhts in British America, by His Grace the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, in the letter of iMr. Adderley of the 1st December last. :t'i You state that Ivirl (Jranville directed vou to transmit 1 we may this document to us for any o))servations whicl wish to otfi'r u])on it. IFis Lordslnp's c(an'tesy and con- sideration in sendino- us a copy of Sir Stafford Xorthcote's letter and invitino- us to ex])ress our views uixni it are ,i>'rate- fully a(!knoAvled,u'ed, but ni)on retlec^tion we thou,u-ht it wouUl be ex])edieiit to I'elVaiii from any formal expression of our opiin'on on new and indefinite ])roi)ositio:is, until we had recieived some intimation of the view which his Lordship was likely himself to take of them, or of the policy in re- spect to the general (piestioii which Her Majesty's present advisers intend to adopt. At an interview with which we were favoured by lOarl (Iranville on the 'J(!tli ultimo, he exja'cssed liis pi'eference for a less complicated mode of dealing with the Hudson's Hay (piestioii than that jtroposed by the Duke of ihicking- liam and Chandos, and re(|uested us to communicate to him our observations on the I'cply of Sir Slallbrd Xorthcole, and especially on tln' proposition with which his letter con- 192 i'Mi It eludes, viz., that the (Vnadiaii CTOvermiieiit should "com- '•' plete the purchase of the .eiTitory at once, by the i>avmeiit '' of a RUTH of money or bv the deliven' of bonds." As we have had but few opportunities to confer with his Lordship since his accession to ( ice, it may be proper, before considerint*- Sir Staftbrd X<.. Jicote's letter, to state the position of the Canadian (Jovernment, as we apprehend it. in this neg'otiation. The British Xortli America Act of 18(57, affirmed the policy of uniting under one government all the colonies, provinces, and territories of British North America. Three provinces were uin'ted at once, and provision was made by the 146th section, for the admission into the union, of the remainiiiii; colonies, on address to Her Majesty by their resi)ective legislatures tiiul the parliament of Canada. The North- west territories and Rupert's Land, or either of them, are to be admitted on the address of tlie Parlia- ment (if Canada alone, and on such terms and conditions as the Canadian Parliament may in its address express, and Hqv Ahijesty api>rove. In [)ursiiance of the policy of the Im])erial Parliament thus distinctly allirmed, the Canadian Parliament at its first session under the new constitution, adopted an address to Her A[ajesty tbi' the inc()r])orati(>n of the North-west territory and Rupert's Land with the Dominion of Canada. The terms and conditions exjjressed in the address were, — 1st. That C^uiada should undertake the duties and obliga- tions of (Jovernment and legislntion in respect of those territories. 103 ^nd. That the legal rights of any Corporation, Company, or individual within the territories should be respected, and that provision should be made for that purpose by placing those rights iinder the protection of courts of competent jurisdiction. 3rd. That the claims of the Indian tribes to compensation for lands required for purposes of settlement should be con- sidered and settled, in conformity with the equitable prin- ciples which have uniformly governed the British Crown in its deali^igs with the aborigines. t 'J The above were the only terms and considerations which, in the opinion of the Canadian Parliament, it was expedient to insert in the Order in Council, authorised by the 14(3th section. His Grace, the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, on receiving the address of the Canadian Parliament, consulted the law officers of the Crown, who advised, among otlier tilings, that " there would be much dillicuUy created by the existence of the charter" of the Hudson Bay Company, " to jmtting into execution the powers of tlic 140Lli (14Gth) section of the British American Act, 1807, assunu'ng that the Hudson's Bay Company were adverse to the union." ^.i A Bill was thereupon carried through the Imperial I^arliament, apparently to remove the " difficulties " whidi tlie law officers had discovered. It reverses the order ol" procedure contemplated by the Act of 1807, and observed by the Canadian Parliament in its address, and makes the assent of the Company a condition precedent to the transfer. 194 The Canadian Government were not consulted as to tlie terms of this Act ; they could not understand why it was necessar}', and greatly doubted the expediency of passing it. The Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, having opened negotiations with the Hudson's Bay Company under the authority of the Act last mentioned, invited a delegation from the Canadian Government to confer with him in this country. The undersigned, duly commissioned for that purpose, repaired to London in October last, and had fre- quent interviews with His Grace before his retirement from office. The proposals submitted to the Company by the late Government in the letter of Mr. Adderley of the 1st December last, were not made at our suggestion, although we were disposed to think (and so informed His Grace) that if the Company accepted them, the Canadian Parliament might be persuaded to undertake the duties of legislation and government in the territories on the conditions specified. The Company, through Sir Stafford Northcote, have declined to accept either the principle or the mode of settlement proposed by the late Government, but suggest a new and smnmaiy method of closing the negotiations, by demanding that the Canadian Government should, by a payment in cash or bonds, ** complete the purchase of the Territory at once." No sum is mentioned, and no data given from which it can be inferred. Under these circum- stances, we are asked, as representatives of the Canadian Government, to communicate to Earl Granville any obser- vations wc may wish to offer on this reply and proposition of the Company. 195 have c of gest 8, by .y a the data loum- ,(lian Ibscr- ition His Lordship Wiil readily perceive from the foregoing recital, that, as representatives of the Canadian Govern- ment, we are in the position of spectators of a negotiation, begun and carried on upon principles and under conditions to which we are strangers, rather than that of assenting Principals, responsible for its initiation, and bound by its results. Without undertaking, therefore, that our views on eveiy point will be approved by the Canadian Government, we proceed most respectfully to ofPcr a few observations on Sir Stafford Northcote's reply to the recent proposals of the Imperial Government. It will be observed that two things are assumed in these proposals to the Company, which t^ie Canadian Government has always disputed. Ist. That the charter of Charles II. is still valid, and grants the right of soil, or freehold, of Rupert's Land, to the Company. 2nd. That Rupert's Land includes the so-called " Fertile Belt," extending from the Lake of Woods ;to the Rocky Mountains. The law officers of the Crown in England have, on two or three occasions, given their opinion in favor of the first nPRumption, but never, so far as we are aware, in favor of the second. The report of the law officers in 1857 admits that the geographical extent of the territory granted must be determined by excluding the country that " could have been "rightfully claimed by the French as falling within the " boundaries of Canada," (which the Charter itself excludes N 2 ■mn 106 by express words), and states that " the assertion of owiier- " ship on important pubh'c occasions, as at the treaties of " Ryswick and Utrecht," should be considered ; and also " the effect of the Acts of 1774 and 1791." The most recent opinion of the law-officers of the Crown which we have seen (January 6th 1868), as to the rights of the Hudson's Bay Company, does not even by implication sup- port their present claim to the fee-simple of nearly one-third of the American continent. On the contrary, Sir John John Karslake and his colleagues conclude their report with the emphatic statement that it is " very necessaiy, before " any union of Rupert's Land with Canada is effected, that '' the true limits of the territory and possessions held under " the Charter should be accurately defined." An assumption therefore, which covers so much ground, and is unsupported by any competent legal authority ; which ignores the re- peated protests and claims of Canada, and seeks to supply a basis upon which a surrender for valuable consideration may be made, is, to say the least, a most favourable assumption for the Company. "We notice these points in Mr. Adderley's letter before remarking on Sir Stafford Northcote's reply, to prevent the possible inference that we have acquiesced in them. ( !, !l!iiil I i Sir Stafford Northcote assures Lord Granville that the Company " continues sincerely anxious to promote the object " with a view to which the Company was reconstructed five " and-a-half years ago, viz., the gradual settlement of such " portions of their territory as admit of colonization." It Avould be tedious to quote the numerous and positive aver- ments by members and governors of the Hudson's Bay (Company, in the course of official in(piirie8 during the last 197 fifty years, that their territories (in which they inel-ided the Red River and the Saskatchewan Districts) are totally unfit for colonization. The evidence of Sir George Simpson before the House of Commons Committee of 1857, is a fair sample of the views heretofore entertain d and avowed l^y the repre- sentatives of the Company. (Vide Commons Report, 1857 ; Questions 716, 717, 718, 719, &c.) Mr. Ellice, for many years the ruling spirit of the Company, declared before the same committee that the Red River settlement was an " unwise speculation," and '^ had failed ;" that " the climate "is not favourable;" tha^. the Saskatchewan is a country capable of settlement only when '' the population of America " becomes so dense that they are forced into situations less " fit for settlement than those they occupy now ;" that the winters are " rigorous," and the country badly off for " fuel," &c. (Questions 5,840 and 5,847). With such views of the unfitness of the country for settle- ment, and avoAving their belief that colonization and the fur- trade could not exist i-ogether, it is not surprising that the Company have always cherislied the latter, which was profit- able, and discouraged, and, as far as possible, prevented the former, which had proved an " unwise speculation." It is true that the Company was " re-constructed " in 18G3, witli loud promises of a new policy. A great road across the continent Avas to be made, a tele^-raph line was to be put up, and emigration and colonization developed on a large scale. The Duke of Newcastle, then Secretary of State for the Colonies, was so much impressed by the zeal and public spirit of the gentlemen who effected tlie re-construction, that he wrote despatches to the Canadian Government on their behali; and evidently believed that a new era was al;oi\t 198 ' lit* hr to open in the north-west, and the wild animals and far traders retreat before the march of " European " settlers. The stock of the old Company, worth in the market about £1,000,000 was bought up, and by some process which we are imable to describe, became £2,000,000. A show of anxiety to open postal and telegraphic communication was made, and " heads of proposals " were submitted to the Governments of Canada and British Columbia, wliich on examination were found to embrace a line of telegraph only, with the modest suggestion that the two governments should guarantee the company a profit of not less than 4 per cent, on their expenditure ! A proposal so absurd could only have been made to be rejected, and it *va8 rejected accordingly. The surplus capital of the recoustructed Company, which was called up for the avowed pui-poRc of opening their terri- tories to " European colonization, under a liberal and sys- " tematic scheme of land settlement," has never been applied to that puiiiosc. Five and a half years have passed since the grand scheme was announced to the world, but no European emigrants have been sent out, no attempts to colonize have been made. Sir Stafford Northcote was not probably aware, when he vouched for the boTiJl fides of the Hudson's Bay Company as i)romoters of colonization, tliat a solemn vote of the shareholders was taken in the montli of Novem[)cr, 1866, which condemned and rejected the policy of colonization, absolutely and definitively. Wh le unable, for tlio reasons stated, to concur in Sir Stafford Northcote's assurance that the Hudson's Bay Com- pany is anxious to promote colonization, we are gi'atiflod to learn that they " adhere " to the resolution of 28tl! Angust, 1863, that the thue luis come when it is expedient that " tiio 199 to 10 " authority executive and judicial over the Red River Settle- " ment and the South-western portion of Rupert's Land, " should be vested in officers deriving such authority directly " from the Crown." The first remark we have to make upon this reference to the resohition of 1863 is, that it admits the continued inca- pacity of the Company as a (jovcrninrj power ; the second, that if this was true in 18G3, — if at that time it had become expedient to substitute the authority of the Crown for that of the Company, — it is much more expedient, if not abso- lutely necessary, now ; tlic third, that if the Company arc to be relieved of the duty and cost of go^'^ernment whicli tlieir Charter imposes, and which they admit they do not and cannot properly discharge, compensation should be made, not to the Company, as is claimed, but hy the Company to those who take the burden off their sliouldcrs. We confess we have failed to discover any evidence, and therefore cannot believe, that the Company have " cheerfully" accepted the decision of Her Majesty's Government, " that the whole of the C()m}mny's territory, should, under proper " conditions, be united with Canada." A brief notice of lliii acts^ in contrast with the profpssians of the Company, will, wo think, account for tho ill success of our researches and justify our incredulity. Tho roproflcntntivoR of the Compnny, wliilo declaring before the ]Iou8(! of Commons (\minii(teo in 18r)7 (ns wo have already shown) that their territories were " unfit for •' Bcttlement," professed their rcmliricss to surnMider any portion of them that might bo desired by tho Imperial or Canadian Government for that purpose. << m 200 Mr. Ellice declared in the mcst miqiialilicd tcmie, not only that the Company was willing to suiTcndcr, but that it was the duty of Government to Bee that no mere trading corporation obstructed " for one moment," nor to the extent of " one acre of land fit for settlement," the " dominion of " the actual settlers." (Commons Report, 1857 ; questions 5,859, 5,860 and 5,933). The Governor of the Company informed the Colonial Hecretary (18th July, 1857) that an inquiry into the " geo- graphical extent of the territory granted by their charter," which the law officers had recommended, was of little impor- tance, because, if the object of the inquiry was '' to obtain *' for Canada land fit for cultivation and the establishment " of agricultural settlers, the Directors are already prepared " to recommend to the shareholders of the Company to cede " any lands which may be required for that purpose. The "terms of such cession," he assured Mr. Labouchere, " would be a matter of no difficulty between Her Majesty's " Government and the Company." Mr. Ellice had previously told the House of Commons Committee, that the question of boundary was " of no im- " portanco at all," because " if the province of Canada ro- " quires any part of the territory, or the whole of it, for pur- " poses of settlement, it ought not to be permitted for one *' moment to remain in the hands of the Hudson's Bay Com- " pany." He lulded that " less money than would be spout '' in a litigation upon the dubject would be sufficient to '* indcniiiily the Hudson's Bay Company ibr any claim which " they could have on giving up any disputed j)art of tlicir '* territorv." »> 2')i These assurances induced the Committee to negative i)rc- positions for as(;ertaining by a judicial inquiry the validity of the charter, or the position of boundaries, and to report in favor of annexing to Canada " such portion of the land '' in her neighbourhood as may be available to her for the " purposes of settlement, with which she is willing to open ^' and maintain communication, and for which she will pro- vide the means of local administration." The Committee " trusted" that there would be " no difficulty in affecting '' arrangements as between Her Majesty's Government and " the Hudson's Bay Company" for ceding the territory on " equitable principles." nt to It may be proper to remind Earl Ciranville, that leading members of the Committee of 1857, taking the offers of the Company on the subject of colonization to mean, what the language of their representatives imported, strongly opposed the recommendation to leave the question open for " amicable adjustment" upon " equitable principles," with the certainty of protracted negotiation and a chance of ultimate disagree- ment. Mr. Gladstone accordingly submitted a resolution for a prompt and definite settlement of the whole question. Ho proposed — Ist. " That the countiy capable of colonization should bo withdrawn from the jurisdiction of tho Hudson's Bay Compai.v." 2nd. " That tho country incai>ablo of colonization should remain within their jurisdiction." He pro]>oRed that in the country rcinaiiiing within their jurisdiction power should bo rcscrvod to Her Majesty's 9!ifcSffi!.i5S5.A4, -iJiJJU.iJJiSMiL'iliU.iSSs'SsassssagaEEaiBiiiJ '1 202 Government to make grants " for the purposes of mines and " fisheries, but with due regard to the Immunities and trade " of the Company." No " immunities" were even suggested with respect to the country which was to be withdrawn for colonization. He proposed to ignore the Charter, by declar- ing that the jurisdiction of the Company "should rest " henceforth upon the basis of statute." He quoted the Governor's letter above referred to, "as an expression " of the willingness of the Company to accept in prin- " ciple the arrangement" he proposed, and ended with the suggestion that, " as the Company had tendered conces- " sions which may prove sufficient to meet the case," no decision seemed neccssaiy as to the question of raising " a " judicial issue with the view of ;. <'crtaining the legal " rights of the Company." The propositions of Mr. Glad- stone were only lost in the Committee by the casting vote of the chairman. Twelve years l-ave passed since these offers were made by the Company and accepted by a committee of Parliament. Every Colonial Secretary, from 1858 to the present moment, has attempted to carry out the recoLimendation of the Committee, with tlie assent of the Company, but without success. Two Acts of the Imperial Parliament have been passed, with provisions to fiw^ilicatc the arrangement, but are yet without fruit. Sir Edward Lytton Bulwer characterised tlie offers of the Company during In's administration as " illusory," and declared that they " by no means met the exigencies of tlie case." lie expressed his regret at a determination on their part which " retains tho " very difficulty in tho way of s[>ecdy and amical)le settlc- " ment which he had sought to remove," and stated that if Canada declined to resort to "legal proceedings" (\^hich ho 203 had recommended) "it would be his duty to consider "whether negotiations with the Company can bo resumed, or " whether in the last resort Her Majesty's Governn--nt must " take the matter into their ow.^ hands and proceed on their " own account." (Mr. Merivale's letter to H. H. Berens, 9th March, 1859.) Sir Edward remained in office long enough to put an end to the Company's license of exclusive trade in British Columbia and the Indian Territories, but not long enough to carry out his policy of " connecting " two sides of British North America without the obstacle " interposed by a proprietary jurisdiction between them." The Duke of Newcastle opened negotiations with the Company, in 1863-4 with much vigour. But after various proposals and counter-proposals, including the " rcconstruc- " tion" of the Company, he was obliged to treat their propo- sitions as " inadmissible." Mr. Cardwell, during his administration, could not accept their proposals " without considerable modifications." The Duke of Buckingham, after many discussions with the representatives of the Company, regretted to perceivo that their proposals " did not aft'ord much prospect of an " an'angement being come to ;" and in the communication to which the letter of Sir Stafford NorthcoLe is a reply, de- clared himself " unable to recommend the adoption" of the terms demanded by the Company. Our notice of what, in Sir Staflbrd Northcotc's opinion, constitutes a " cheerful" acceptance of tlio decision of Her Majesty's Government, would bo incom])letc, if we did not remind Earl Granville that the Company's " proper condi- "tions" for the surrender of that portion of the Norfch- Wosteni Territories, for which they can show no title but 204 such as may be derived from the possession of a few trading posts, established there within the last fifty years, rose from a question of "no importance at all" in 1857, or at most to " less money than would be spent in a litigation on the sub- " ject," (House of Commons Report, Question 6834), to the retention, in 1863, in fee simple, of half the land pro- posed to be surrendered, with various other conditions, including a guarantee by the Governments of Canada and British Colmnbia, of an annual profit on their own ex- penditures for improvements on their own property ! In 1864, these conditions took the form of a demand, first, to be paid £1,000,000 sterling from sales of lands and mines, with large reservations '' to be selected by them," &c. ; and, secondly, to be paid £1,000,000 sterling in cash, with other terms and reservations favorable to the Company. IJiil In 1868 these conditions for the surrender of tenitorial and governing rights over the whole territory remained at £1,000,000, as in the first proposition of 1864, with large reservations of land at " selected" points, specially exempted from taxation, and with full liberty to carry on their trade free from the export and import duties, to which all other subjects of Her Majesty in that country would be exposed. In 1869 these various proposals, whicli no Secretary of State could possibly entertain, have all been apparently merged in one gi-and proposition to sell out " the territory at once for " a sum of money," in cash or bonds, the amount of which is not stated. We content ourselves under this head vith the observa- tion, that whatever others may be able to sec in all these 205 ti'ansactions, we are utterly unable to discover either a cheer- ful acceptance of the decision of any government, or an honest disposition to fiilfil the solemn pledges made in Par- liament in 1857, on the faith of which the Company was un- questionably savcd from judicial or legislative extinction. Sir Stafford Northcote claims credit for the Company because they have " declined to encourage overtures which " have been made to them by private persons for the pur- " chase of portions of the Company's territory with a view to " their colonisation." Our information is (and we can give Earl Granville names and dates, if the point is deemed of any importance) that the only "overtures" of the kind mentioned which the Company have received, were not merely " encouraged," but suggested and concocted by pro- minent members of the Company, for the pur^iose of pro- ducing an impression on the Government, and with a view, not to colonization, but to negotiation and the Stock Market. We are not sure that we understand the statement of Sir Stafford Northcote that the Company " have taken no " step which would give rise to fresh complications or place " any new difficulty in the way of the admission of their " territory into the Confederation." The sale of land to private parties for color/*. ation (assuming that lond fith offers have been received from such parties) could not give rise to much complication, except in the affairs of the Company. If Sir Stafiord liints at the negotiations which were lately reported to be going on with certain American speculators in London for dena- tionalizhig and Americanizing the Company with a ^icwto 206 the " admission of their terrritory " into the United States, instead of the Confederation, we respectfully submit that while such a difficulty might indeed be " new," the proper person lo solve it would be Her Majesty's Attorney-General, with the aid of a court and jury of competent jurisdic- tion. We do not understand that Earl Granville expects us to defend in detail the Duke of Buckingham's proposals, or to answer all the objections made to them by Sir Stafford Nortlicote. The Government of Canada, as we have already reminded his Lordship, neither suggested the Act of Par- liament, nor the terms of the negotiation, which the late Secretary of State for the Colonies attempted to carry out under its authority. The Canadian plan of dealing with the question of the North-Western Territory and Rupert's Land is set forth in the address of the Canadian Parliament to Her Most Gracious Majesty, and we do not feel at liberty, as representatives, to suggest any other mode, until we are informed by Her Majesty's Government that the one pro- posed is deemed impracticable. Sir Stafford Northcote's suggestion that " the payment of a sum of money " for the purchase of the territory would conduce to a more satisfactory result, is, we believe, the point upon which Earl Granville specially desires to have our views. Assuming that by "territory" he means the whole territory to which the Company lay claim, and that they arc to continue as a trading corporation, retaining their posts, and allotments of land in their neighbourhood, as he states was agr'eed upon between the Duke of Buckingham and Lord Kimbcrlcy, wo have to observe : — 207 1. This proposition involves an abandonment of the prin- ciple which two Secretaries of State (and it must be pre- sumed, two successive administrations), declared, after much consideration, and in view of the transactions of 1857, was properly and justly applicable to this case, viz. : That the compensation should be derived from the future revenue of the territory itself, and payable only as it came into the hands of Government. This principle was also accepted by the Company in their communication of 13th April, 1864. 2. On the other hand, the principle of ascertaining and fixing a money value upon the territorial rights of the Com- pany " in the British territory east of the Rocky Mountains " and north of the American and Canadian lines," and of extinguishing those rights by a payment "at once," was suggested, in 1865, by a delegation from the Canadian Government of that day, and assented to by Mr. Cardwell, then Secretary of State for the Colonies, and his colleagues. If the latter principle or mode of settlement is now to be adopted, it is obvious that the first question is. What is the nature of th^se "rights," and what territories do they affect ? and the second. What are the rights, separated from the duties and burdens attached to them by the Charter, fairly worth ? We shall not attempt to answer these questions ftiUy in the present communication, but we venture to submit for Eai'l Granville's consideration a few facts and inferences, which cannot, we believe, be dip od, and which are essen- tial elements in any calculation which may be attempted on the basis of a money purchase. 208 1. The Charter of Charles II. (and for the present we raise no question as to its validity) could not and did not grant to the Hudson's Bay Company any territory in America which was not then (1670) subject to the Crown of England. 2. The Charter expressly excluded all lands, &c., then " possessed by the subjects of any other Christian Prince or " state." 3. By the treaty of St. Germains-en-Laye (1632), the King of England resigned to the King of France the sovereignty of Acadia, New France, and Canada, generally, and without limits. 4. " La Nouvelle France " was then understood to in- clude the whole region of Hudson's Bay, as the maps and histories of the time, English and French, abundantly p]'ove. 5. At the Treaty of Ryswick (1697) 27 years after the date of the Charter, the right of the French to "places situated in Hudson's Bay" was distinctly admitted; and although Commissioners were appointed (but never came to an agreement) to " examine and determine the pretensions " which either of the said Kings hath to the places situate *• in Hudson's Bay," and with " authority for settling the " limits and confines of the lands to be restored on either " side;" the places taken from the English, {i.e., from the Hudson's Bay Company) by the French i)revious to the war, and " retaken by the English during this war, shall be left " to the French by virtue of the foregoing (the 7th) article." In other words, the forts and factories of the Hudson's Bay Company, established in Hudson's Bay under pretence of 209 their Charter and taken possession of by tlio Prencli in time of peaoe, on the ground that they were an invasion of French territory, were restored, by the Treaty of Ryswick to the French, and not to the Company. 6. By the Treaty of Utrecht, 1714, " the Bay and Straits " of Hudson," together with all '' hinds, seas, sea-coasts, " rivers, and places situate /// ihe Bay and Straits^ and which " belong thereto," were finally ceded to Great Britain. 7. As no definite boundarv was ever established between the possessions of the French in the interior and the Vav^- lish at Hudson's Bay, down to the Treaty of Paris, 17(1;?, when the whole of Canada was ceded to Great Britain, the extent of the actual possession by the two nations for s(nne period, say from the Treaty of Utrecht to the Treaty of Paris, affords the only rational and true basis for ascertain- ing that boundary. ^ 8. The evidence is abundant and conclusive to i)rovo that the French traded over, and possessed the whole of the country known as the Winnipeg Basiti, and "Fertile Belt," from its discovery by Europcians down to the 'i'reaty of Paris, and that the Hudson's Bay Cunii)any neitlier traded, nor established posts to the south or west of h\xV{) Winnipeg, until many years after the cession of Canada to England. 9. No other or subsequent grant to the Company was ever made which could possibly extend their territorial rights under their Charter. The licensa to trade in th'«. Indian territories, which they obtained in 1821, wa« re- voked in 1858, and has not been renewed. 210 10. The country which) in view of these facts, must be excluded frotn the operation of the Chatter, includes all the lands fit for cultivation and settlement in that part of British America. It will be for Earl Granville to consider whether this Company is entitled to demand any payment whatever, for surrendering to the Crown that which already belongs to it. We confess our utter inability, upon any principle of law, or justice, or public policy, with which we are acquainted, to estimate the amount which ought to be paid under such circumstances. The only basis of computation we can dis- cover, applicable to such a case, is the cost of the legal pro- ceedings necessary, if any be necessary, to recover possession. A person has taken possession of a part of your domain under the pretence that it is included in a deed which you gave him for some adjoining property before you purchased the domain. You want to get rid of him, but will be com- pelled to bring an action. He is artful, stubborn, wealthy and influential. He will be able to worry you with a tedious litigation. How many acres will you allow him to "reserve," and how much will you pay to save yourself the cost and trouble of a law-suit ? Compromises of this kind are not unknown in private life, and the motives and cal- culations which govern them may be applicable to the present case. We recommend this mode of computing the amount of the payment to be made for the surrender of the North-west territory, as distinguished from Eupert's Land, with all the more confidence, because it has already been suggested by one of the ablest and most trusted of the re- presentatives of the Company. {^Vide evidence of Right Honorable E. EUice, Houso of Commons Report, 1857, question 5,834.) 211 With respect to Rupert's Land, or the " lands and terri- tories," " upon the coasts and confines of the seas, bays," &c., " that lie within the entrance of the straits commonly called Hudson's Straits," " not possessed by the subjects of any other Christian prince or state," a different rule, we admit, may be held to apply. Giving to the words of grant the widest construction, territorially, that could possibly be admitted by any judicial body with the facts of the case in evidence before it, or giving to these words the construction which the Company themselves applied for a hundred'years from the date of their Charter, the "rights" they propose to sell are of little commercial value. No revenue, we feel assured, will ever be derived from them. The fiir trade is the only industry the country offers as a source of profit, and this, if we rightly understand Sir Stafford Northcote's suggestion, the Company wish to retain. It has never been alleged, even by the most sanguine advocates of the new theory of the Company respecting land sales, that any revenue can be derived from that source within the limits which we have assigned to Eupert's Land. The cost of government there, inconsiderable though it may be, will always exceed any possible revenue. We are thus led to the same conclusion as in the case of the Territory claimed, but not owned, by the Company, viz., that what they propose to sell has no pecuniary or commercial value. They are there, however, by at least a show of right. Being there, they obstruct the progress of imperial and colonial policy, and put in jeopardy the sovereign rights of the Crown over one-third (and, as some think, even a larger portion) of the North American continent. " What is it worth to have this obstruction qxdetty removed ?" This is, 02 212 perhaps, the true question ; but the answer, we submit, belongs rather to Her Majesty's Government — ^which has the power, in the event of resistance, to remove the evil by a summary process — than to those who are little more than spectators of the negotiation. Earl Granville is aware that several attempts have been made since 1857 to aiTive at a definite agreement on the subject of compensation. The suggestions and proposals on each side, together with the actual market value of the Company's stock at different periods, supply data which his Lordsliip may deem of importance; and we therefore re- spectfully submit our views as to the conclusions which may be deduced from them. The first attempt of the Imperial Government to estimate, and express in pounds sterling, the compensation which it would be reasonable to ofier to the Company, was made by the Duke of Newcastle in 1864. The greatest sum which, after "very gi'ave consideration," his Grace felt himself able to propose for the surrender of the country west of Lake Winnipeg was £250,000. But the payment was subject to the following conditions : — 1. £150,000 waa to be derived from the sale of lands by Government within the territory. The payment was to be made at the rate of Is. per acre sold, but to be entirely dependent on the goveniment receipts. 2. Payments were to ceaso wlicnever they reached £150,000 ; and absolutely, at the end of fifty years. 3. The Company was to be paid one-fourth of the sum 213 received by Govemmeut for export duty on gold or for mining licences or leases for gold-mining in the territory, for fifty years, or until the aggregate amounted to i£100,000. 4 The payment of any part of the £250,000 was con- tingent on the ability of the Company to place Her Majesty's Government in possession of an 'indisputable title " to the territory ceded by them as against the claims of Canada. The last condition was objected to by the Company on the ground that they could only give such title as they had, which they contended " must be taken for better for worse." The Duke of Newcastle renewed his offer, modifvinff tlie / I/O last condition into a stipulation that, in case it should bo found advisable, the territory eastward of a line passing through Lake Winnipeg and Lake of the Woods, miglit be ceded or annexed to Canada, in which case nothing would be payable to the Company in respect of that territory. The present value in cash of such an offer, suhjoL't to the conditions and contingencies specified, would bo very difficult to ascertain. The revenue from export duty on gold and for licenses would probably be nil. The revenue from land sales, if tiie cost of surveys, management, and necessary roads were deducted, would bo nil also. It is very doubtful whetlier, if these deductions be made, the revenue from land sales in the provinces of Canada from tlio cosBion ill 17GC to tho present time, would show a surplus. Sir Stafford Northcoto quotes tho i)rieo of land in Min- nesota, and theiicc infers tho value of lands iu tho Red 214 Eiver, and Saskatchewan districts, which lie from five to ton degrees farther north and arc still in the possession of the wild Indians of the plain. But we think it will be found that the lands in Minnesota, which sell for '^ ono pound per acre," are either private lands in the neighbour- hood of towns, or the property of railway companies, on or near which millions of dollars have been expended to make them saleable. They are certainly not ^public lands un- improved by public expenditure. Sir Stafford ought to have mentioned at the same time a fact whicii we believe is known to every emigrant who leaves the British Isles for America, that, in the Western States of the Union, and in the provinces of Canada, wild lands arc now given to settlers as " free grants," and we may add that this policy is more likely to be extended than reversed. To talk of the vahm of public lands as a source of revenue, distant fi'om one to two thousand miles from available markets, and without roads or navigable waters by which to approach tliem, is to contradict all experience, or to assume that the cost of surveys and management, and of canals, roads, and other improve- ments for their devclopemcnt and settlement, will be supplied by those who do not own them, for the benefit of those who do. But in order to arrive at some result that can be expressed in figures, let us assume tluit the sum ascertained by the Duke of Newcastle to boa sufiieiont "compensation" would, under his i)ro])08ition, have been ])nid within T.O years, and at an average rate ])er annnin. We linm give the Coinjuuiy the benetit of all the doubts in the case, and rednee the question to a simple problem in arithmetic: AVluit is the present value of an annuity of dCr>,UUU fur fifty years ? 216 That value, Ave submit, is the highest amount in cash which can be claimed as an equivalent for the offer made to the Company in 1864, by his Grace the Duke of New- castle. The next offer of the Imperial Government which men- tions a specific sum, is that made by his Grace the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, on the Ist December last. It differs from the previous offer in several important par- ticulars, 1. It embraces the ivhole of the territory claimed by the Company. 2. It proposes to allow the Company to retain their " posts " and certain allotments of land in their vicinity with a small reservation in each township as it is sur- veyed. 3. It pro]-»oses to allow the Company one quarter of the receipts frt n land (free grants being treated as sales at one Bhilling per acre) and one quarter of the sum received by Government as an export duty for gold and silver, or for licenses for mining for gold and silver. 4. It limits the amount to be received under these heada conjointly, at £1,000,000 sterling. The other stiijulations are nniniportant for the purpose ol' ascertaining the cash eipiivalunt of tiie proposition. It is evident that the "unknown quantities" in thi;. equation are as difficult to find as in the fii'st. Wo knovr the total sum to bo paid, and the jmporiim of tlic receipts J li 210 from lands and mines applicable for its payment ; but wo do not know the average annual sum likely to be realised from their sale. The minimum price is fixed at one shilling per acre, and it is doubtful if, under the proposed arrange- ment, the price would ever be found to exceed that sum. There is one term ptill to be ascertained — the average numher of acres per annum likely to be sold and granted. A crude guess is all the case admits of. If we take Upper Canada, possessing many advantages for early and rapid settlement of which, unfortunately, the remote territories of the North-West are depirved, we find that from its erection into a separate province, down to 1868, about 22 millions of acres had been disposed of by sale and grant, or an average about 286,000 acres per annum. Assuming that the same rate of sale, &c., is maintained in the North- West Territories (which all the old Hudson's Bay authorities, who know the country, would pronounce a bold assumption) wo have reduced the question to a simple refe- rence to the annuity tables as before, viz., What is the present value of an annuity of £3,575 per anniun for 280 years ? Wo have omitted from the last term the one-fourth of the Government receipts from gold and silver, for two reasons. Ist, It has not been shown that there are any gold or silver mines in the Territory, that will pay for working. 2nd, All the attempts heretofore made to obtain a revenue from such sources, in Canada, luivo failed, and public opinion has forced the l(»c'til govennnontfi to ad()])t tlie jwlicy of what may bo called " free mining," or clicap lands for the miners, and {ibolitioii of rt)yalticB and imposts, except to meet the 217 cost of preserving the peace, and of surveys and necessary supervision. There is another proposition on the Government side which bears on the question of " compensation." It results from the agreement between the representatives of the Government of Canada, and Her Majesty's Government in 1865, and containing fewer elements of uncertainty, than propositions which involve questions of Government policy, emigration, land sales, &c., it can be reduced to a cash value with greater exactitude. Mr. Card well describes the agreement, as follows : — " the fourth point, the subject of the North- Western Terri- tory, the Canadian ministers desired that that territory should be made over to Canada, and undertook to negotiate with the Hudson's Bay Company for the termination of their rights, on condition that the indemnity, if any, should bo paid by a loan to be raised by Canada under the Imperial guarantee ; with the sanction of the Cabinet, wo assented to this proposal — undertaking, that if the negoti- ation should be successful, we, on the part of the Crown, being satisfied that the amount of the indemnity was reasonable and the security sufficient, would apply to the Imperial Tarliament to sanction the agreement, and to guarantee the amount." The Canadian delegates reported on the subject with a little more detail. '' Wo acicordingly proposed to tlio Im- " perial Ministers that the whole British territory cast of " the Rocky Mountains and North of the American or " Canadian lines should bo made over to Canada, subject to " such rights as the Hudson's Bay C/ompany might bo able 218 to establish, and that the compensation to that Company (if any, were fomid to be due) should be met by a loan guaranteed by Great Britain. The Imperial Govern- ment consented to this, and a careful investigation of the case satisfies us that the compensation to the Hudson's Bay Company cannot, under any circumstances, be onerous. It is but two years since the present Hudson's Bay Com- pany purchased the entire property of the old Company ; they paid £1,500,000 for the entire property and assets, in which were included a large sum of cash on hand, large landed properties in British Columbia and elsewhere, not included in our arrangement, a very large claim against the United States Government under the Oregon treaty ; and ships, goods, pelts, and business premises in England and Canada, valued at £1,023,569. The value of the territorial rights of the Company, therefore, in the esti- mation of the Company itself, will bo easily arrived at." The principle which this agreement between the two Governments recognises as applicable to the case, appears to be, — compensation in money, for the ascertained rights of the Company, after deducting the value of the property retained by them. The words " if any," and " if any were found to be due " import that, in the opinion of both parties, it was possible if not probable, that after making tlie deductions, no compensation would be " due." The basis of the calculation wliich seems to have been made, or agreed upon, is very simple. Tlie old Hudson'^ Bay Com]mny liad recently sold all tlie rights imd property of the Company, of every description, for the sum of £1,500,000. An inventory, agi'ced to by both sellers and 219 purchasers, set Ciwn the assets exckisive of "Territorial rights," as follows : — 1. " The assets (exclusive of Nos. 2 and 3) of the Hudson's Bay Company, recently, and speciiilly valued by competent valuers, at .... £1,023,569 2. '' The landed territory" (not valued) 3. A cash balance of £370,000 £1,393,569 On the fkjc of their own statement, £1,500,000, less the above sum, or £106,431, was the amount which the new purchasers actually paid for the " Landed Territory." Under the agreement of 1865, this seems to be the highest sum which Mr. Cardwell and the representatives of the Canadian Government, thought could, in any event, be demanded T)y the Company, as indemnity or compensation for the surrender of the rights tncy " would be able to establish." "We have thus attempted to convert into their equivalents in cash, the two offers made to the Company since 1857 by the Imperial Govermnent, and to ascertain the amount of the indemnity contemplated by Mr. Cardwell, and the Cana- dian delegates in the arrangements of 1865. To arrive at any result, we have had to assume figures which, according to our experience, the facts of a new country will be more likely to reduce, than to increase. We have also omitted conditions either implied or expressed in the proposals of 1864 and 1868, which wo believe Avould have unposed con- siderable ex])ense upon the Ctnnjiany. There is another mode of estimating the amount to l»u paid, on the principle of compensating for actual loss only, which remains to be considered. 220 The stock of the Company has for some time been quoted at an average of 13 ^ . The capital is, nominally, £2,000,000 and the shares £20, — the value of the stock, therefore, in cash, assuming that the whole of it could be sold at the market rate, is £1,350,000, or £43,669 less than the value, according to their own estimate, in 1863, of the Company's assets, exclusive of the " landed territory." The money ob- tained from the public for shares, beyond the £1,500,000 paid to the old shareholders, will no doubt be amply suffi- cient to make good any deficiency in the valuation of 1863. From a consideration of these data we submit, that, if the validity of the Charter is not now to be questioned ; if the territorial extent of the country affected by it is not to be defined; if the claim of Canada to include, within her boundaries, a large portion, if not the whole, of the country occupied by the French at the time of the cession in 1763, is not to be investigated, and finally determined, — if the admitted incapacity and the notorious neglect of the Com- j)any to perform the duties of government (which were part of the consideration for the rights conceded by the Charter) are not to be taken as sufficient on public grounds to justify cancellation, and re-entry by the Crown, — then the very liighest indemnity which ought to be paid, in cash, f<^r a surrender of the territorial claims of the Company, with tho reservations and other privileges offered by His Grace the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, is the siun indicated by tho foregoing computations. We must, in conclusion, express to Earl Granville, our strong conviction, that no money offer, which either tho Imi^crial or the Canadian Government would deem reason- 221 able, will be accepted by the Company, and that, to delay the organisation of constitutional Government in the North- West Territory until the Hudson's Bay Company consent to reasonable terms of smTender, is to hinder the success of Confederation in British America, and to imperil the in- terests and authority of the British Crown in the territories now occupied by the Company. We therefore respectfdly submit for Earl Granville*s consideration, whether it is not expedient that the Address of the Canadian Parliament be at one acted upon, under the authority of the Imperial Act of 18G7. But, if his Lordship should see any suflBcient legal or other objection to that course, then we ask, on behalf of the Dominion Government, for the immediate transfer to that Government, of the " North- West Territory," or all that part of British North America, from Canada on the East, to British Columbia, Alaska, and the Arctic Ocean, on the West and North, not heretofore validly granted to, and now held by " The Governor and Company of Adventurers of ** JjiUgland trading into Hudson's Bay," by virtue of a Charter of King Charles IL, issued about the year 1670. We have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient Servants, GEO. ET. CARTIER. WM. MacDOUGALL. Sir Frederic Rogers, Bart., &c. Colonial Office. I a 222 Hudson's Bay House, London, February 26tli, 1869. Sir Frederic Rogers, Bart., Colonial Office. Sir, I have tlie honor to acknowledge your letter of the 22nd inst., transmitting, by Earl Granville's direction, a copy of a letter addressed to his Lordship by Sir George Cartier and Mr. McDougall, on the subject of my letter to yourself, dated the 13th ultimo. The Committee of the Hudson's Bay Company un larstand from your letter, that it is not Earl Gran- ville's wish that they should enter into a discussion of tlie communication from the Canadian Delegates, and they therefore refrain from making any comments upon its tone, or criticising and correcting its assertions. If there are any of those assertions to which Earl Gran- ville himself attaches weight, the Committee will gladly, on their being pointed out to them, offer such observations upon them as may appear to be necessary. As regards the manner in which the Canadian dele- gates treat the suggestions contained in my letter of tlio 13th ultimo, — that the Canadian Government should complete the purchase of the Company's Terri- tory at once, by the payment of a sum of money or by the delivery of bonds — the Committee desire me to observe that they might have had some difficulty in gathering, from the terms in vhich the delegates ex- press themselves, whether they were or were not prepa- red to entertain that suggestion, and to open a negotia- T' 223 tion with this Company. But as Earl Grpnville, who has had personal communication with the delegates, is of opinion that their letter, taken in connection with previous correspondence, leaves little present hope of bringing matters to a settlement by way of compensa- tion, the Committee are forced to adopt the conclusion that it is intended as a virtual refusal on the part of the delegates to entertain the question in a serious spirit. Should Earl Granville at any time come to the con- clusion that it is desirable, that the Committee should renew the offer of fully communicating with him on the subject of a money sale which they made in my letter of January 13th, they will hold themselves prepa- red to do so. For the present, and in accordance with what they gather to be his Lordship's views, they consider this matter at an end. It becomes my duty then, to answer Earl Granville's questions, (1) Whether the Committee have any ob- jections, either of principle or of detail, to make to the the "counter-proposals" of Sir G. Cartier and Mr. McDougall, and (2) What course the Company would propose to take for securing that life and property are adequately protected, and international obligations duly performed in their Territory, so long as they remain responsible for its Government. With regard to the first of the two counter-proposals, viz., that the sovereignty of the whole of the Territory in question should be immediately transferred to the 224 Dominion Government ** subject to the rights of the " Company," the Committee desire to ask whether it is intended that the rights of the Company should be as- certained and defined before the transfer takes place, or after it. If the former be Earl Granville's inten- tion the Committee have no kind of objection to oifer to the proposal ; but if it be meant that the transfer should take place first, and that the rights of the Com- pany should then be made the subject of litigation in Canada, with a right of appeal to the Courts of this country, I must remark that such a course is likely to lead to much inconvenience, expense, and annoyance to all parties concerned, as well as to prove detrimental to the interests of the Settlement itself by the pro- longation of an irritating and disturbing controversy. As regards the injustice to this Company involved in such a proposal, I beg leave to refer Earl Granville to Sir E. Head's letter of the 25th January, 1868, to the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, in which a similar proposal is very ably discussed, and to which, and to the extracts from speeches delivered in the Canadian Parliament which it incloses, the Com- mittee desire to invite Earl Granville's particular attention. The second counter proposal is, for a transfer to the Dominion Government oi >oth the Sovereignty and the property of " all the Territoiy not heretofore validly " granted to, and now properly* held by the Company "under its Charter." Upon this ;^roposal also the Committee desire respectfully to ask whether the limits of the Territory so to be transferred are to be 226 distinctly set out iii the instrument of transfer, so that there may be no room for disputes as to the limits of the respective jurisdictions. Even with the utmost care in this respect the Committee cannot but feel apprehensive that difficulties will arise in dealing's with the Indians and with the various classes of hunters and traders frequenting those distant regions, if two different systems of administration are intro- duced into those portions of the extreme North- Western Territory which would be affected by the pro- posed transfer ; especially as the great distance of that Territory from Canada and the difficulty of the com- munications, will render its administration by the Dominion Government very troublesome. Should, however, Her Majesty's Government decide on this measure, the Committee will do all in their power to arrive at a good understanding with the Dominion Government as to the details of the arrangements which should be made in the two portions of the now united territory, and to facilitate the establishment of a strong administrative system in both. As regards any transfer of the Sovereignty without a distinct definition of the limits to be assigned to it, and by virtue merely of vague general words, the Committee feel that they need not point to Earl Gran- ville that such a step would not only be open to the objections which I have already mentioned in the case of the former counter proposal, but to the further, and very serious one, that it must lead to constant conflicts of authority and to frequent political embarrassments. The Compuuy can hardly be expected to provide fur P ,^ see the security of life and property, and the due perform- ance of international obligations if their boundary is left unsettled, and their title to important parts of their Territory unrecognised. It is probably unnecessary for me to pursue this argument at any length. I have now to advert to the last question put by Earl Granville, — that relating to the course which the Com- pany would propose to take for the government of their Territory, so long as they remain responsible for it. II The Committee desire mo in the first place, to remind his Lordship that they have no authority to give a pledge on the part of the Shareholders of the Company, and that they can only undertake to submit certain proposals to them, and to use their own influence to secure their adoption. Subject to this reservation, the Committee are prepared to enter at once into free (com- munication with Earl Granville, as to the measures which should be odoi)ted for the purpose to wliich he adverts. As his Lordship is aware, a resolution was agreed to by this Committee, os long ago as in August, 18(Ui, to the eifect that in the opinion of the Directors it wns expedient that tlie authority, executive and judicial, over the Ited lUver Settlement and the Houtli- western portion of Rupert's Land, shouhl be vested in oflicers deriving such authority directly from the Crown, i\.\(\ exercising it in the name ol ller Majesty. Li ado^jting tliis resolution, tho Committee intended to indicate their desire for the establishinent of a Crown Colony in this portion of their Teiritory. They still belief that this would Ix) the most satisfactory plan V •^ Xri 227 that could be pursued, and they are prepared to discuss it with Her Majesty's Government, if they are en- couraged to do so. I am to state that the Committee would be willing either to advise the surrender of such proportion of the Company's proprietary rights as might be found to be a fair equivalent for the charge which the estab- lishment of a Crown Colony would throw upon the Imperial Exchequer, or to recommend the Company, retaining its proprietary rights, to take upon itself the whole of the pecuniary burden. The Committee are satisfied that a Territory, which in the present un- developed state of its communications supports a trade of the annual value of more than £400,000, and which possesses a large amoimt of highly fertile soil requiring no great expenditure for its clearance and cultivation, is perfectly capable of supporting the expense of any government that it may be required* to maintain ; and they have little doubt that if the state of the case were fairly laid before the Shareholders, and if tlie moral support of the Imperial Government were distinctly assured to them, the necessary funds would readily bo forthcoming. Of course, if Her Majesty's Government should be of opinion that the great objects in view could be equally well attained by the exercise of the i-owers actually jxtssesHcd by, or which might be granted to, the (.onipany, and sliould consider that it would be pivlerable to adopt (his nielliod of government rather than to erect llie Territory into a Crown Colony, the Committee would at once fall in with such a sugges- 'm^^ w.y 228 tion, and would "request Earl Granville to state to them what establishment would, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Government, be sufficient to meet the necessities of the case. It canyhardly be necessary for mo to add that, in the event of such fm arrangement being made, the Com- pany would rely upon the cordial co-operation of the Government in submitting any needful measure to Parliament, and in protecting the Settlement from any treapass or interference on the part of Canada. ' In conclusion I am to observe that it is on many accounts important that the Directors of this Company should soon communicate to the Shareholders the pro- gress of this negotiation, and should lay the correspon- dence before them. They trust that Earl Granville will have no objection to their doi: q- so. I ha\e, &c., STAFFORD H. NOIITHCOTK, Governor. <\ ■!>%■ m i II. Kknj' CaI'mtok ^ f*oN, I'HiitorN, Tiftiironoo I'liwiitncj UllI, CimuoB B