«2^ >> o^A^^Tk% IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) 1.0 I.I 1.25 1^ ilM IIIIIM 1^ 1^ 12.2 Hi 1^ la- Ui 1^ |20 u iMUlI 1.8 U lllijl.6 V] <^ /a /a m. ^A 0% ;;> (? / •^ e // CIHM/ICMH Microfiche Series. CIHM/ICMH Collection de microfiches. Canadian Institute for Historical Microreproductions Institut Canadian de microreproductions historiques 1980 Technical Notes / Notes techniques The Institute has attempted to obtain the best original copy available for filming. Physical features of this copy which may alter any of the images in the reproduction are checked below. L'Institut a microfilm^ le meilleur exemplaire qu'il lui a dt6 possible de se procurer. 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L'exemplaire filmd fut reproduit grSce d la g6n6rositd de I'dtablissement prdteur suivant : La bibliothdque des Archives publiques du Canada Les cartes ou les planches trop grandes pour dtre reproduites en un seul clich6 sont filmdes d partir de Tangle sup^rieuro gauche, de gauche i droite et de haut en ba.s, en prenant le nombre d'images n^cessaire. Le diagramme suivant illustre la mdthode : 1 2 3 4 5 6 V mu oi€avmom FOURTH SESSION, FIFTH PARLIAMENT— 49 VIC. SPEECH OF HON. E. BLAKE, M.P., ON SIR HECTOR LANGEVIN'S MOTION TO PASS TO THE ORDER OF THE DAY. OTTAWA, MARCH Hth, 1886. Mr. BLAKE. Under those circumstances, I hope that the error will be noted in our daily record, so that we may know what motions are put to the House and what the regular course of business is. When the hon. gentleman proposed that we should adopt the cour he urged yester> day, I ventured to say that the situation was not the same. The situation yesterday was this : An hon. member had a Bill in the Orders relating to another matter before the House, and the result of pressing the motion that we should proceed to the Orders of the Day, as against the Bill, would injuriously interfere with the progress of a Bill which had nothing to do with this question ; but the question we are called on to consider to-day is which of two propositions we will adopt, both of which have relation to the matter in hand. The first is that we should have the evidence material to the formation of a judgment before proceeding to a judgment, and the second is that we shall proceed to judgmont before getting the evidence. The hon. mem- ber for Bellechasse (Mr. Amyot) proposes that cer- tain papers of high consequence in considering the question, and in considering the conduct of the Govern. ment— papers upon which the Government proceeded in coming to a conclusion — shall be laid upon the Table, so that we may know what that was which tne Government had before it when they came to their conclusion. In amendment or in supersession, at any rate, with a view of defeating that proposal and obliterating it Irom the Order paper, the non. gentleman proposes that we should proceed to judgment in the case. Of course, wo all understand that there is a well-known rule of law which is based on the common sense of mankind and which will answer the pur- pose of a judgment in this particular, though not so satisfactorily as the production of documents. That rule is : — Omnia praesumuntur contra spoliatorem. Every- thing is presumed against the man who suppresses, con- ceals, or gives away the documents in the case. If the Government, in preference to submitUng to the Order to produce the papers, insists upon the trial of the case with- out the documents, that presumption will bo drawn here amongst lawyers and laymen and by the world at largo. X am prepared to draw it, and I think other people will draw it as well. But that is not satisfactory to me, because 1 beliove the proper course is that the papers should be> produced, and that, not upon Buoh presumptions, however well founded they may be in law and common sense, but on the documents themselves should we proceed to judgment. I call your attootiou, Sir, to this question of the production of papers, and to the view this Government seems to take as to its duties and responsibilities, and as to the rights and respon- sibilities of Parliament in that conneotion ; beoause it socms to me that it is extremely material to the disposition rf th's motion that we should understand, once for all, what is the duty and responsibility nf Government, and v?hat are the rights and responsibiiilies of Parliament. Now, remem- ber that the first papers which are material to the particular question in hand, so far as that question at all bears upon the conduct of the Government before the rebellion, were moved for by myself as long ago as pretty early in the Session of 1883. These papers were connected with the complaints and representations of the settlers near Prince Albert, and the House unanimously ordered, on that occasion, the production of those papers. The Session of 1883 went on, and it ended, and the papers were not produced. The Session of 1884 commenced, it ran its course, and it ended, and the [papers were not produced. The Session of 1885 commenced, and ran a long way in its course, and the papers were not produced. The rebellion broke out ; the Govern- ment was pressed, time and again, to bring down the papers so long delayed. It was pressed to comply with this Order, so contemptuously ignored for those several periods, and at length, long after these repeated demands were made, in the Session of 1885 these particular papers, or some of them, wore brought down, in obedience to the Order of 1883. I say that if the Order of the House had been complied with, it is in the highest degree improbable that the rebellion would have occurred. If this Parliament had obtained those documents and paperts which were called for in time for it to consider them, with the light and knowledge those documents would have given us, with the knowledge of what were the grievances of the people and what the Govern- meut he ' done and wasdoing, we might have been saved the Hhamo and pain and disgi'jico of'tlio ovonls vvhici'. Imvosirx^o occurred. But llio Govonitnont ignored, as it alwiiya lian done, iUduticH und obligations towardw this IIouho, not indeed by conlostinfi; our right to the paporH, except very rarely, l)iit by paHning tlio motions without a word, and thencontomptu- oiisiy ignoring the Orders of tl)0 House, with the roHultHto wiiich 1 iiiivo rei'orred. Then tlio rebellion broke out just al)out this day a year ago, or a little earlier. The call was made again for paj)erH, a call which has Kjou repeated coti' tinuously hince that time. 1 point to your attention that upon the occasion of a former outbreak, the (>utbroak of J8(j'J 7'*, the tJovornment had recognised their duly in that regard. The moment I'arliament mot, the outbreak liaving taken j)!ace during the recess, although it was still going on, al- though there was an alleged provisional (fovornment, or tide facto Government, in that country, the Government felt that it was their duty to the I'arlianionI, that it was their obligation to the [ublic of that day, to lay before Parlia- ment the papers which contained the information with reference to the cf uses of the outbreak, and with reference to the course anJ the conduct of the Government in con- nection with the outbreak, the jjapors which would enable us to measure what had been the discharge of their duties by the (iovernmont in that regard. They felt it to bo their duty to lay those papers before Parliameni, volun- tarily and Hpontanaousiy . They wore promised in the Speech from the Throne, and they wore laid before us a very few days afterwards. It was said, indeed, that thei'e might bo some jilirases or a mviiio or two which it might be inexpedient to publish at that time, and the First Minister pointed out, and )iointcd out with ))"oprioly, the import- ance of n 'I doing any damage to ])rivaie iiH'resis in that region; and the Govornment thordoie profjoeoJ a secret committeo to look over the papers and decide which ould bo published without damage to public, or prisaoo in- terests. The First Mininter did not then arrogate to himself the right to be the judge of what sliou'd be the ma- terials to bo brought down to Parliameni to enable us to decide upon the cause which might bo pending between the people and the Administration of the day. ilo felt that his own position demanded that men on both sides of the lIouBO should see all the papers, and that to men from both sides of the Ilouse shoul J bo committed the tusk of detor- miniiig whether ])ublic or private interests required the publication or the suppression of certain papers; and, from this side of the Uoi^^e, my hon. (riend from East York (Mr. Mackongie), the late member for (Jhatoauguay (Mr. Hoi- ton), and myself, and 1 think another, but I am not quite sure, wore appointed. We met, we looked through all the papers, ihey wore I'll brought down, and 1 think we omitted one sentence arid two or three names, and it was agreed between us unanimously that these should be omitted ; but, as to all the rest, we agreed that they wore fit to bo made public, that they were tit to bj raado known to Parliament and to the people; and so tluy came on the Table of the Ilouso, so they wore made |)ublio to tlic woild, and BO the whole inlormation as to the events which had preceded the rcbijllion, the events which had brought about the rebellion, the course, conduct and policy of the Govern- ment, "vhich eoulJ bo discovered at that time in the public offices, were brought forward. 1 say not that everything w.is brought Airward ; I say that triuch was not brought forward which ought to have boon ; I say not that much was not then concealed. All of us who have Binco watched public events, all of us who have since read the proceedings of the Select Committee on the Norlh-West troubles, know that ranch was kept buck ; but still osten- sibly all was brought down ; the duty was acknowlodgod if it wtis not performed, to bring down everything atfe(;ting the matter ; and hon. gentlemen on bjth sides decided what should be published. Hero, a rebellion takes ])laco, an outbreak takes jiiaco, man}' lives are ]qA, millions of treasury are (>x]iended, 1 call for papers, and the hon. t^entle- man says : I will decide for myself what |upers should lie brought down and wliat should not bo brought down. No longer does ho say ho will bring down all the papers, and strike a cominittue to see what should bo made public and what should not; but ho says that he will himsoli see what papers should be brought down, wilh a view to the effect which su(h and such papers will have on the fortunes of the Government of the day. J).> you mean to tell me that the (iovernmont of the day, whose ]>olilical futures, whoso political as well as iiorsonal reputations deitend upon the evi- dence to bo broiigiit down, are tho liljudgos of what pa|)ors are to bo kept back and what papevs are to be laid bjfaro Parliament ? I)) you moan to leli me that it is to be left to them to say what |)ioi;os of evidence are innocent enough, or harmless enough, or are sulHciently well known to hon. gentlemen opposite to ron lor it useless to retain them, what papers can be safely biouglit dovn or what papers can be safely Kept luck? It is no', human nature, to is not common sense that su 'h a doctrine should be laid down, that those atIio are chai'gedand who admit, as the I'^irst Minister admitted last Session, in answer to myself, that an outbreak has occurred of such soriouiconsiMpionco as to render them responsible to the House and to the countiy, should have it loll to theiuselvos to say wliat shall c )ino d'jwn, and that too at a niomonl when they are pressing on a decision upon one of tho imj)jrtaut iiuestions involved in this mattor. Willi one breath they call upon us to sit from day to day, an I from Lour to hour to discuss this (lueslion, to iho supjiressioii oi all other business; and with the oilier, they hold back, they refuse to produce the documents which are important to arrive at a rigiit conclusion on that very mattor, A few papers wore brought down, under dint of constant pres- sure — pressure administered from day to day — were brought down after as much reluctacce and difficulty as if the operation had been one of the extraction of tooth referred to by mo last Session. At one time we heard that the clerks' time prevented the^e jiajiors coming down, that there were not enough clerks in tho Department to copy them ; and, after that was told to us, thoy wore brought down, and I had them copied by one or two men in twenty-four hours. While millions of dollars were being expomled in the siipprosiion of a rebellion, we wore told wo could not hire on(Migh men at a dollar and a half a day to copy tho documents which would toll the people who were responsible for that rebellion. At another time, we were told that the pulilie interest required the suppression of certain pa])ers during the revolt. We are yet to have it shown or pointed out to us thai there is a single paper, tho i>roiluction of whit h would have hurt tho public in- terest at that time. The fact is, that tho hon. gentlemen have for a long time confounded the public interest with their own, that they have confounded the public interest wilh the interest of tho Tory party, and that they are dis- posed to say that whatever bin ts the Tory party hurts tho public interest, and, theiefjie, thoy will not bring down iliese jiapers. Well, some evidonie was omitted ; some jiapers were refu'-cd for another reason. I was told that, in a heartlei-H manner, regardless of tho interests of the mis- sionaries in the Norlh-West who were there with their lives in their hands ; regardless of the temiioral inteiests of iJishop Grandin and of other missionaries, Protestant and Roman Catholic ; regardless of tho interests of the officers of tho Government, I was calling ruthlessly, while yet there was war between tho bal.' breeds and the rest of Canada, and, after that was over, while yet there was danger of an Indian war, for tho jiroduction of doc-umonts which would endanger tho lives of those men — documents, Sir, which would have proved that *.hoso men had done their d'lty by tho pooplo of that country, documontfi siicli as those which my hon, friend from HoilochasHO (Mr. Amyot), tho other day j)roducod, though tho (iovornmont declined, out of tender consideration and care for tlie interests of Bishop Cirandin and those under him, to brin^ them down last Session ; documents which proved that that prolate had, in tho month of Juno, just after or just before Kiel had arrived, communicated to the Government the condition ofalluirs, communicated to the tiovornment tho condition of dis- content, communicated to the CJovernment the condition of oxciiomont, pointed out what the natuio of tho demands was, pointed out that some wore reasonable and some were unreasonable, called upon the Minister of Public Works to do hir* duty by iiis compatriots and his country, called upon him to givo bis early and earnest attention to this (■ubject, and called upon the i''ir8t Minister as well, that those documents, which pointed out that there had been great neglect on the part of tho Government in tho past, that Bishop Grand in himself bad appealed to them lime and again, that ho bad been received, as ho said ho was, as we know that everybody is, by tho Kir^t Minister with most courteous words, with the kindest promises, but with no measure of performance ; documents which prove tho urgency of the case, documents which speak of another interesting event, also up to that time concealed from us, which speak of a visit of the Lieutenant-Governor to those quarters, which occurred prior to tho month of June, and of tho reception which that dignitary met with from tho inhabitants of that country, an unsatisfactory reception which the Bishop regretted, but which ho explained by tho existence of discontent. Well, Sir, wo wore told that Bishop Grandin would be injured ; his authority, already shaken, would be destroyed, if tho Government brought down the papers which proved that Bishop (irandin had done his duty by his people, lie had made roproBentations of their interests and ot their condition, and had exhorted the Government repeatedly, though without success, to givo attention to the matter. We wore told by tho First Minister that the productio!i of th papers at that time would hurt JJishop Grandin. 1 ar "'" .him, that tho production of such papers was neces y to preserve tho honor, to maintain the authority and in the truo interest of those dignitaries, whether they be ofticors of the (iovernment of Canada, or officers of the church of that country ; and 1 say so now. 1 Buyonce again, that you cannot believe, in the face ot tho fact that tho ofiicors of the Govornmont in that country still hold their office — you cannot believe but that they have reported from time to time, and fully, to the Government, what tho position of that country was, and what was going on. Have they or have they not? if they have not, how does it come that Government dares to meet Parliament with these men still in ollico. If they have, is it not of tho last conse- quence that we should see what their reports say, and un- derstand what the situation of atlairs was 'I one way or the other — these men are unfit for their duty wholly, and proved to be unlit, or they have reported. W they have not reported, how are they in oltice? if tlioy have reported, why have wo not their report ? It is utterly impossible. Sir, to escape from tho view, tho men being retained in office, that those reports have been made. It was their first duty, their first charge, to havo made tbam, if their duty was lully ])orforracd. Then, Sir, there is another report to which I have already reforred, which has boon Nup))reBsod, tho report of Colonel Houghton, of tho 28th July previous, when he reported the condition of atlairs in that country at that time, when ho went to get the arms, and which report tho Minister of Militia declines to give us, but which gave most important information as to tho condition of that country, information which indicated what the duty of Government was, in a very plain way. Now, Sir, tho (iov- ornment has not ventured, much as it ventures upon the fidelity, not to say tho subserviency, of this Legislature— tho (lovernmont lias not ventured openly to aver ' at it would not bring down the j)apers. Towards tb .so of last Session I made further demands. As to ir tho First Alinistor, and as to some, (he present Minister of l"'inanco, then acting as Minister of tho interior, answered me that there were such and such papers, and that they would be brought down. And this Session, having appealed four times, or five, to tho First Minister upon this subject, ho bss at length stated that the Government was about o bring down spontaneously tho papers of tho North-W .. Why? ISecauso he acknowledges it his duty to do so, because he acknowledges that it is his obligation towards this House to bring down these papers. And why not now ? Jiecause they are now in courao of preparation I Sir, the rebellion commenced a year ago, Parliament has been pro- rogued for axrr or seven months, wo have met now for three weeks, and if an obligation is admitted to bring down, papers to Parliament, does it not imply, and necessarily involve, the obligation to havo these papers ready for Parliament, to bring them down in time to Parliament ? Does it not, i;t any rate, involve tho proposition that so long as you tell us that your neglect of your duties has prevented you from preparing *,ho papers aiid from implementing your obliga- tion, so long as you ought not to press on with the decision of tho cause, that you will not, with one hand, force a motion into the Speaker's hands, insisting upon a decision on it, and put the other hand behind your back and say. In our own good time; after you havo a definif^n or tho question, we will bring down as many papers aa wo think it safe to bring down, or as wo think wo cannot escape from bringing down, and leave you to prove how many more you know of, or to move a committee of enquiry, or some other futile step, because wo do not kn' w what are the papers which remain. Sir, the First Minister, when 1 first called upon him this Session, declared that he would look at the demands which I made last Session, and givo me an answer. Two or three times I appealed to him, and he said that ho had not been ablo yet to go through it all, and in tho end he said to me : Eeally, the documents were so numerous, would cover such a large amount of ground, that he must ask mo to do it myself, must now ask mo once again to say what it is I want. Whereupon I asked whothei' any papers were to bo brought down spontaneously, to which tho hon. gentleman replied, yes. I suppose that nobody hero was so very innocent as not to understand the meaning of the First Minis- ter's observations. lie was extremely anxious to put it upon me, who have not access to his department and his pigeon-holes, who do not know all tho papers that are there, who cannot tell what he has got, to specify all that I may havo heard of, and thus to limit tho scope of his obligation and his duty. Sir, he acknowledged that he had a duty, that duty he has noglocted, and still persistently neglects. I say that we ougnt not to proceed with tho enquiry at this time. I be I eve. Sir, that tho proposal which is now being made is one to put the cart before the horse. My opinion is, and always has been, that it was necessary that the debate of which tho hon. gentleman proposed the resumption, should bc; proceeded with, that it should be fuliy discussed ir. Parliament, that it should bo debated and decided here; but my opinion also is, that an essential element in a final judg- ment and satisfactory conclusion of that question is a thorough threshing out of the events which preceded tho rebellion, and of the conduct of C^o Government with refer- ence of all those events, and an ascertainment of tho rela- tive measure of the responsibility of the (iovernment and of the balf-brcods in that regard. I do not think these questions can conveniently, owing to the great magnitude of each of them, be conjoined ; and am of opinion that it is putting tho cart Ijofoio Iho hoiHo to dispone of this quoHtion fiiHt ami tho othoiH aftor- waidfl. But tho (iovornmont, by iho uho of its ma- jority, and for various obviouH purpo^cH, huH choHOii to put tho cart boforo tho horHO and to propone that this (juestion should bo decided first, boforo the other ques- tion which is, ill order of time, in order of convenience, in order of roaHon and common sense, tho first to bo discussed and ihretihod out, Well, we aro obliged to submit to tho decifion of tho msjority as to the time and mode in which tho trial of tho Government will take place. They have Holcctcd, apparently, an accuser, they have framed an in- dictment, they liavo got hold of a jury, they are now de- ciding what tho ovidonce shall bo against themsolvoH. J say that the form of procedure being selected by them- selves, the least that should happen to us is that, at any rate, wo should got the ovidonco before wo are called on to decide the cuuso. I do uot believe. Sir, thao in any oilier Pailiamont in tho world would a motio'i, nuch as tho hon. gout Ionian has junt now inndo, prevail. 1 do not buliovo any liouso in which the forms of consti- tutional govornment and parliuinontary government still represent its substance aro Ptill animated by its spirit, would allow a motion to bring down material evidence to be superseded at tho instance of" the a'^.uused by » proposal to proceed to judgment. I shall no', believe it in spito of what I see before mo, in sjiilo or what I foar. LIntil J see it, 1 shall not believe that this Piuiiamont will deliberately determine to proceed to Judgment 'u preforonco to obtain- ing the ovidonco material to form tlio judgment. It may be so, but if so, 1 shall deeply rogiot it, and I shall know, of course, what inferences to draw as well as regards tboso who propose as thoeo who support such a course. Printed by MacLean, Roger & Co., Parliamentary Printera, Ottawa.