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SIR FRANCIS HINOKS, o»«„,o. SIR GEORGE E. G ARTIER, ,„ebw HON. W. McDOUGALL, O.B., HON. OHAS. TUPPERCB., HON. J. H. CAMERON, okmbio. -tL^-'-l^^ . O. Ij. TILjIjE i , NEW BRUNSWICK. HON. S. CAMPBELL, nova scom. MR. PATRICK POWER, nova ^^ MR. Mcdonald, NOVA 8oo«A MR. R. A. HARRISON, ONTARIO. ^ from th@ "Daily Mail, inft/Stireet,. TororiliQ^ Jutie, 1872. >? INTROIJUOTION. TwB debate "n the Treaty of Wiahing* Von, ID the House of Commoni, wm the ■evereiit cruoiftl te«t to whioh the talent* of Canndinn atatoamen hare eTer been put. The Idftding speochee, in defence of tlie Treaty, deserro to be put into a more {lermanont form than that of a daily or weekly journal. For a whole year, the Ticnty had boeu subjected not merely to fiiir criticiam but to almost every kind of misrepreseiHation. During all this time, the Goverrmcirt, delaying its defence till tho fjueHtion slioulU come boff dissatisfaction with tho Reciprocity Treaty of 1854, cNnu" to find utterance ; by what pro- cess tho people i if the United States, at lirat ao favourable to that Treaty, came to 1h' hostile to it. til 1859, Mil. Gai.t, as Finance Minister of Canada, found it necessary to secure an increase of revenue. The necessity was urgent. The gaping chasm of an annual deficit, which threatened to get wider and wider, had to be closed ; at least it was miperativc to make the attempt, Pratic- aily, there was but one resource : an in- crease of the traffic. This was obtained without in any way interfering with the Free List ./f the Reciprocity Treaty. A Canadian Opposiion journal thereupon told tlic Americans that they ought to l"ok on the raising of tho Canadian tariff US a grievance; that they might well take the ground, that the spirit of the Treaty h^kd been vio1ated,aud insist on bringing it tojf termination before the expiration of ii.e ton years, during which it was stipu- littcd italioiild remain in existence. There had .ihviiys been some American interests and a section i if a political party opposed to the Treaty. The Canal interest of New York dreaded the diversion of trade to tho St. Lp wrenco, which tho freedom of that rivor invited; and the abolition party, with Mr. Greelv, for their spokesman, desiring to add Canada to the Union as a "•ouaturpoise to tho South, thought their • •liject could best be attnined by starving (liis country into compliance, through a iefu»;d of reciprocity. This interest and this party at once seized upon the idea ihicli Mr. Bbown had given them. They »aid he was right in suggesting that the riiisiug of the Canadian tariff was in con- tnivcntion of the spirit of the Treaty. Tlioy took steps to give etTeot to this idea as soon as possible, and succeeded in in- ducing the American Government to ap- point, Mh. IsftAKL Hatch, who was thoioughly in their interest, to enquire iiito the operation of the Treaty and re- port thereop. Lord Ltons, British Ambu- sador at Washington, in a despatch to Sir Edwakd Hbad, then Qovemor-Oeneral of Canada, adduced the clearest pfoof of the use to which Mr. Bbown's suggestion to the Amoricans had been put : Wabhisotok, Oct J7Vh, 18W. Sir,— With roff renoe to the dM|>at4;h w Ich I had the honour to .'ulilreM to Your Extvlloiwy un tho mh tilntant, rr^pccthiff the Rpfoinlmeiit of Mr. Imwl T. Hat4:h, to Inquire Into mattcri oonnect«4l with the Unltod 8tAt«(i Revenue entAhlUhnieiite on the CanadUn rn)nUor, I li«)(? Ifiivo to uiiulos*! an Rrtlf'Ie which a[»- po&rwl in ttie Wtwlitiiffton newnjiaurr, Cofuititutiin, of the (Iny h,ffore yc^tcnlay, under the beading : Newi and MIh ellanooiii ItemR. This article jir-fewics to be derived, in subalanco, from the Toronto Gtohe, and to expreea Canadiiin »entimenl« on the Keciprocity Treaty. Tlu anU-r Mtemtto antiHvate, unit to b* dvtpttted in novMtort to iuntify, thf. abroffatwn by the United Stfttna o/ that Trtniti. Al the Cn to Ihe organ of PmMent Ruch- aruui'e a miiiUtratlon, and U in fatit the offlciiO pa- per. I thoiiKli' It right to oxpre«« to nci.eral l'a.»» and to the Aifbtunl Secretary of SUse, Mr. Appleton, my Hurji'lae, that an aiUde of aucb a chtracter ibould have tmen allo«rpd to appear In It. Neither General C'>M nor .Mr. Appleton had ob- •wrved'hoartk't-; hut Mr .\pp»Bton, at my request. kNiked I'tr it and road It. lie pointed ont to me that it appear d in a part uf the paper not likely to be carefully »U|ienntenife'I. and said that it niu«t have l)oen intK>rted from inadvertence ; he added that I tniifht at all event* a8,intment of Mr. Hatch by tho Tresident, to ox:f the «|,irit and intent of the Treaty, and oiwratoi Injur ously to .\niarican liitcrcau. In conaoquence of thH ronrac of actiin, the Gi'be antk-iratcs a partial or totnl abroga- tion of the Treaty. allliouKh It waa a;p-eed that It '.houl.l remain In force ton veani. Tt '^ "uppoeed tJiat the Citilftt Stntfs iPi'l iitaintain that the lin yearn' elarue mira a Canadian source. Let us follow Mr. Brown's Reciprocity policy, after his suggestion to put an end to the Treaty of 1863, had been success- ful. He stated in his explanation in tho House of Commons, June 16, 1866, that he had resigned his position as a mem^ er of the Coalition Government of 1864, " entirely on the quention of Rfciprofifii." What iTound did he then take ? That Canada should make no proposal for a renewal cf Reciprocity; that "from " ihem, (the Americans) and not " from us, ihe mioaestionf muat " properly coin« — inilefd eould onlii " come." (Qlohe's Report.) The Am- erican Government was willing to renew negotiations from Legislative Reciprocity; to stipulate that reciprocity should be arranged by legislation instead td the mind of man ever before conceive euch a nitMle of regu'ali M the intf>mati(mal tr«i9o oi IL\ Btatea lying contiguous to each other, and pladng their relations 'ipon s permanent and peaoitfat bwU * * * How long coulil RUoh an arrancomeni, un4«r ana dr- euntiancee, Uat? * * * And what trade oould be Mlely proeeouted uiHier 10 fllnuy a praMxt for Hs Mouritv T Wlio would put hia money In any under- taking, the proapecta of which rented on ait arrange- ment that might he iwepl away In a week 7 Who would lay out hla farm, who wtiuld pttt wed In the t round, who wouM raiM flmrka and herdtt for a mer- it that might beeloeeU to him ere harvest timet ' ' * What commercial advantage poHhib'y derivnl>le from LaKlf^lallve Ro4'iproilty eoiud coiu|MinNate for the poli- tical evIlH It would enUII ,,n the country T QUtie, Fel.ntary ^l. Mm. The pretence that Loginlativu Recipro- oity was a thing unheard of showed that Mr. BnowN'g cause rtHniircd a resort to misrepresentation. Om this quoBtion 'y material approximation of oplnlnni ou that lubjfot. *' Tn-, laat attempt at an ajljuBtiuent had been made, with an evident convict on on both kMor, that there existed t)Ctw.«n them an un< ouqiu rahio dilTer- onoe oi' principle, and It w^-thy that ditloronco, rather than l,v any ileo'tleo IrreconcilahlontM if ititorowt, that a Kaiihtiftory armngoment was rendered liojit-teM. "The nature of tho ottTereiiie lina liecn BUfn>;iently dlaeusHetl : it Ilea In the detertninat o' of 'ho United StAtee ro dii.outo, ami in that of OrOMt Hr tain to main- tain tho eatanllahed dlatlncti.'n iK'twccn generul and colonial trade. ** Great Britain had, therefore, an obvious motive for doln^ whatever a'le mijrht think right to d'l in lelaxatiou of her colonial nyaiem, rather by the Inatiu- mentollty of hor own legiHlaturo thin by any compact with a « atato with which ahe dl8.a- greud In opinion, as to the prlnoiplea of cub-nlal tr 'to. HO widely, that it would have been Im- po»*lblle to oonatruct a preamble t-t a treaty on thai subject, in the enunciation of whi.^h 'woo ntroctlng par its should have concurred. " Uu there waa yet au'ttlier reason for avoiding fur- ther no'iotiutious upon the subject. ' Hitherto, when the tnute with tho 'Vest Indiea had been open at nil, it hnd been opem,d obj^-fly, though not excluaivcly, to the t'ultcd Statea. "To no other oountrj had it been opened by specific and positive convention. " But a time had now arrived, when, from motives of general policy, Oreat Britain thought It ulvL^ble to allow access to her colonies to all foreign powerv, without exceptlon.on conditions tendered aiike to all. " Such ludisC' Iminate opening could only be effected by some process common to alt thone who were inmtrd io take advanla*je of it ; Impartiality was thus main* tolned towards all parties, and the |>ower of control over her own colonies wss, at the same time, retained In the hands of the Mother Country." This policy of Legislative reciprocity, which Mr. Brown, in 1866, said had I ')ver been hoard of before that year, even as a proposition, had proved entirely successful nearly forty yean before. Here are the facts : By the Imperial Act of 1825, foreij^l vessels were permitted to import into any • of the British Provinces goods the pro- duce of the countries to which they belonged, and to export them thence to any foreign country. But these privileges were t.o be conceded only on a compliance with the conditions of Reciprocity which formed the principle of the Act. The benefits of the m< asure were limited " to " the ships of those countries which, hav- ' ' ing Colonial possessions, shall grant thu " like privilege of trading with those pos- ' ' sessions to British ships ; or which, " not having Colonial possessions shall "place the commerce and navigation of " this country, and of its possessions, ' ' upon the footing of the most favoured " nation." In case any question should 'vise as t< the construction of the Act, as t-o what constituted a complete com- pliance with its conditions, power was given te the Govsmment to grant, by order in Council, some or all the priTilages although the conditions had not, in all re. I States the Act jras partially aniUad ; owing to a want of lieoiprooitjr, on thair psrt, some of tho privileges w«» jnee withdrawn. In August, 1827, .-» order in Couiioil was published in the London Ouzetle, notifying the American Qoveni- meiit that, so far as they related to British possessions in tlio West Indies, South America, the Bahama Islands, the Ber muiIaorSiunerlHliinilsHiid Newfoundland, they would be withdntwn on tl..i Ist of December, then i nsuing ; and on the western CI >n.',t of .\frica, Cape Colony, the Mauritius, the Islandof Ceylon, New Hol- 'aii'l and Van L>iemai>'s Land, im the lut of March, 1827. The British offers uf conditional procity wore not intended to bti, and were not in fact, perpetual. Only a year was, at lirst, given for compliance ; and ne foreign cotintry was to bo deemed tu have oomp'ied unless it ilid so by the 5th July, 1826. And when any foreign country oor.iplied, the fact waa t<, be declared by order in Council. The -Americans finally accepted the pro ferred eond'tions, and repealed their dis- criminating tonnage and customs duties. Snob was the uiTect of tho legislative reciprocity inaiii,niratoil by Bnglond Mr. Brown, to defeat a like proposal made by the American government, in 1866, condemned ic ar unheard of, nnti'lctl, and a dangerous thing. Besides, legislative riKjiprooity was nt t unknown io Canadian legislation. A mu tual reduction of duties between Canada and France had, a few years beff>ro been carried into effe jt by legislation after prior arrangement. Whether Mr. Bboww has by force of these facts, established a claim to be eon sidered a special advocate of reciprocity, tho public can judge. The fishermen d* notwant thespurious sympathy so offloions ly offered to them on the opening of the shore fisheries to Americans. They are well content to share those fisheries cm condition of having the American market opencl to them. Mr. Powbb's speecli puts the question in its true light, and should forever silence the cavils of the self-constituted champions of the fisher men. The approbation of the Treaty was more or less qualified by nearly all its advocates. They accepted it not beoftuso it is a perfect instrument, but beoause it is the best settlement that can beobtained. Those who urge the rejection of the Imperial policy on the Treaty should, iJ they desire to bo consistent, undertake t< show that they are in a position to iiar ry out an ant«goristio policy; to show that Canada is not only strong e>ongb but quite ready, to set up for herself, anc to commence her independent oar«er b] wresting from the United States oonces sions which England has not been able ,x obtain. But in shrinking from the con sequences of their own policy, they d but proclaim their charlatanism and wan< of statesmauship ; an anomaly of whici thinking men of i.'.I parties have not beer slow to take note. The following e^ieeohes tell tKeir owt story ; they retpiire neither eiplanatici n >r eulogy from us. >Mioev«r ponise them with attention and without prsjncUi will, we are satisfied, agree with tka ma jority of the Canadian House of Coramoni on the question of the Treaty, ic shoir spects, be«n fulflUed. To th* United by the division liat, •mi: SUPPT.EMElSrT TO THE MAIL. iitrtiklly •piilisd : iprooitjr, on thait iloget w«N jncfl ;, 1827, r« order d ill the Londiin Lmerican Qovcni- ' rvlitted to Britiali lit Indiei, SoMth Islnlida, thr Hit lid Nuwfmiiidland, twn on tli.i Ut of ng ; and <>ii tni' Ciipe Colony, tho Ceylon, New Hoi- 9 Land, on the l«t uonditionnl rm. led to bo, and w ere Only a year wu, npliance ; and ue ho deemed to have 10 hy the 5th Jnly, y foreign cmuntry 1 to be declared by y accepted the pro repealed their dia- id o,uiitom« duties, of the legialativr ted by England at a like proposal an govenimont, in inheard of, untriwi, riHjiprooity wa« m legialatiun. i. ran 98 between Oanadn yeaia before been igislation after prior WA hag by force of i a claim to be con late of reoiprooity. The fishermen d" 'mpathy sooffioions the opening of the lericans. They are those fisheries on Americfui market Powbe's upeecli its true light, and the cavils of the ns of the fisher TFif! WASHINGTON TREATY. Debate in the Hontic of CommonH at Ottawa, May, i87)t. :r. the Treaty was by nearly all its ptcd it not beoftUHo ent, but because it hat can beobtained rejection ot the le Treaty should, ii !«nt, undertake !• a position to >iar io policy; to show nly strong e>oug>i up for herself, auc i ependent career b] ited States conces las not been able >At * king from the con policy, they d' rlatanisin and wan< anomaly of whicl irties have notbeei ihes tell their on either explanstio^ Whoever ] d without pre] ndio agree with the mal Hoose of Commoni^ le Treaty, m eho* Beporla of flpecrhf * tir' ir'.d on the oua- ■Ion hj Mr John A. Mnrdonnld t 8lr Fran- ela Hliirks i Mir Ocorgc E. Cartlcr t Hon. Ifm. .Hncilongall, ('II.; Hon. fttan. Tap- per, l'.B.| Hon. J. ll.Ciiiiirroni Hon. H. L. Tlllryi Mr. Mrilounlil, W.H.t Hon. Mr. CMBpbell,n.8.i anil Mr. K. \. ilarrlaon. (Reprinted from the Daily Mail.) . On Friday, May 3r(l, Sir JOHN A. MAO DONALD rose and said : — Mr. Sptaker, — I raovo for Jeavo to bring iu a Dill to carry into eti'oct certain olnuscs of the Treaty negotiated between the United States and C:reat Britain in 1871. Tho object of tho Bill is slated in tho title. It is to give validity, so far as Caua subject will, as t matter of course, take a wide range and wiU properly include all the subjects con- nected w! -h tho Treaty in which Canada has any interest, yet it must not be forgotten that the Treaty as a whole is in force, with the particular exceptions I have mentioned, and tho decision of this House will, after all, bo simply whether the articles of the Treaty extending from the 18th to the 25th shall re- ceive the santion of Parliament, or whether those portions of the Treaty shall be a dead letter. This subject has excited a great deal of interest, ai wan natural, in Canada ever since the 8lh of May, 1871, when tho Treaty was signed at Washington. It has been largely discussed in the public prints, and opinions of various kinds have been expressed upon it — some altogether favourable, some al- together opposed, and many others of inter- mediate shades of opinion. And among o*:her parts of the discussion has not boon forgotten the personal question — relating to myself — the position I hold and held as a mjmbcr ot Sis Govc.-nment, and as one of the High Com- missioners atWashington. Upon that question I shall have to speak by-and-bye ; but it is one that has lost much of its interest from the f, Alt t jat by tho introduction of this Bill the i ouie and sountry will see that the policy of tUoOovcmment of which I am a member is to carry out, or try it caiTy out, the Treaty which I signed as a plenipotentiary of Her Majesty. Under tho reservation mode in tho Tre..ty, this House and the IjCgislature of Prince Edward Island havp full power to ac- cept the fishery articles or rejc.t them. In that matter this House and Parliament have full ond complete control. (Hoar, hoar). No matter what may bo the consequences of tho action of this Parliament ; no matter what may bo tho consequences with respect lo fu- ture relations lietween Canada and Eng- land, or between Canada and the United States, or between EiigLnd and the United States ; no matter what may be tbo conse- quences as to the existence of the preseiiL Govemniont of Canada, it mi-.st not bo for- gotten tliut tliis House has full power to reject these clauses of the Treaty if they please, and maintain the right of Ca- nada to exclude Americans from our inshore fisheries, as if the Treaty had never been made. (Hoar, hoar.) Th.-»t reservation was fully provided in the Treaty. It was mailo a portion of it — an essen- titi portion — and if it had not been ■0 mode the name of the Minister of Justice of Canaila would not have been at- tached to it as a plenipotentary of England, (Hear, hear.) That right has been reserved, and this Parliament bus full power to deal with the whole question. I \7iU byc-and-bye bpeak more at length as to tho part I took iu the negotiations, but I fcol that that reservation having been made I only performed a duty — a gra\ <■ and serious duty, bu'„ still my duty — inattaching my sig- nature to tho Treaty as one of Her Majesty's representatives and servants. (Hear, hear.) Nov,-, Sir, let me enter into a short retrospect of the occurrences which transpired some years before arrangements were entered into for negotiating the Treaty. The Reciprocity Treaty with tho United States existed from 1854 to 18CB, in which latter year it expired. Great exertions were made by tho Government of Canada and a great desire wai. exprosicd by the Parliament and people of Canada, for a renewal of tliat Treaty. It was felt to uave worked very beneficially for Canada. It was felt to havo woriied also to the advantage of the United States, and there was a desire and a feeling that those growing interests which had been constantly develop- ing and' increasing themselves during the tjistenco of the Treaty would be griatly aided if it wero renewed and continued. I was a member of the Govern- ment at that time, with some of my hon. friends who are still my colleagues; and we took every stop in our power, we spared no effort, we left no stone unturned, in order to gain that object. The House vrill remember that for the purpose of either effecting a re- newal of the Treaty, or, if we could not ob- tain that, of arriving at the same object by means of concurrent legislation, my hon. friend, the member for Shorbroke (Hon. Sir A. Gait) at that time Finance Ministe., and the present Lieut. -Governor of Ontario went to iVaahuigton on behalf of the Government of Canada. It is a matter of history that all their exertions failed ; and after their failure, by general consent— a consent in which I believe the people of Cru- ada were as one man — we came to the conclusion that it would be humiliating to Canada to make any further exertions at Washington, or to do anything moro in the way of pressing for a renewal of that instru- ment; and the people of this country with great energy addressed themselves to find othjr channels of trade, other means of de- velojiing and sustaining our various indus- tries, in which I am happy to say they have been completely successful. (Hear, hear.) Immediately on the expiration of the Treaty our right to the exclusive use of the inshore fisheries returned to us, and it will be in the reuiembrwice of the House that Her Majesty's Government desired us not to r» sume that right, at least for a year, to the exclusion of American fisher- men, and that the prohibition of Americans fishing in those waters should not be put in force either by Canada or the Mari- time i'rovinces. All the Provinces, I believe, declined to accede to the suggestion, and it was pressed strongly on behalf of the late Provin of Canada that it would b« against our ilt^.j'ests if- for a moment after tho Treaty ceased we allowed it to bo sup- posed that American fiHhermen had a right to come into our waters as before; and it was only because of the pressure of Her Majesty's Government, and our desire to be in accord with that Government, ns well as becauBe of our desire to carry with us the mord support of Great Britain, and the material assistance of her fleet, that we assented, with great relu3tauce, to the in- troduct'on of a system of licenses for one year at a nominal fee or rate. This was done avowedly by u.s for the purpose of asserting our right. No greater or stronger mode of asserting a right and obtainiug the acknowledgment ot it by those who desired to enter our waters for tho purpose ot fish- ing could be devised, than by exacting pay- ment for the permission, and therefore it was that we assented to the licensing system. (Hear, hear.) Although in 1800 that system was com.'^enced,it did not come immediately into force. Wo had not then fitted out a marine police force, tor we were not alto- gether without expectation that the mind of Jthe Govemiaent ot the Uniteil States might take a different direction, and that there was a probabiUty of negotiations being re- newed r#peoting the r< .ival of tho Reoi- prooity Treaty, and therefore, although the system was esUhlished it was not rigid'y [rat into force, and no great exertion was made to seize trespassers who had not taken out liceu.ies. In the first year, however, a great number of licenses were taken out-, but when the fen was increased so as to render it a sub- stantial recognition 'of our rights, the pay- ments became fewer and fewer, until at last it was found that the vessels which took out licenses were the exception, and that the great bulk of C.e fishermen who en- tered our waters were trespassers. In addition to tlie fact that our fisheries were invaded, that we were receiving no con- sideration for the liberty, and that our rights were invaded boldly and aggressively, it was now stated by th. American Government, or members of the American Cabinet, that the renewal of the Reciprocity Treaty was not only inexpedient but uncon3titutionid,Gnd that no such renewal could or would be mode. The Government of Canada then, in 1870, after conference with the Imperial Govern- ment, and after receiving the promise of tho Imperial Government that we slionld have the support of their fleet in the pro- tection of our just rights, a promise which was faithfully carried out, prepared and fitted out a sufficient force of marine ixilico vessels to protect our rights, and I am glad to beUevo that that pohty was sperfeotly successful. Great firmness was used, but at the same time great discretion. There w.\a no harshness, and no seizures wero made of a doubtful character. No desire to harass the foreign fishermen was evidenced, but on the controry, in any cii"0 in which there was doubt, the officers in command of the seizing vessels reported to the head of their department, and when the papers were laid before the Govenuneut they, in all cases, gave the offending parties the benefit of the doubt. Still, as it would be remembered, some of the fishermen made complaints, which complaints, although unjust, I am sorry to say, were in some instances, were made and supported on oath, of harshness ou the part of the cruisers, and .in •xttempt wa» made to agitate tho public mind of Canada, and tl 're was at that time a feeling on the part of a large nor- tion of the people of Nova Scotia, whion feel- ing, I am however happy to say, has since disappeared, that tlie action of Canad*^ was unfriendly. Her Majesty's Govern- ment were, of course, appealepearance of harshness— in order, while we were supporting our fliliery rights, to prevent any case of collision l)etween tlie Iinjierial Oovemnient anil the United States, or between the Cana- dian authorities and the Unit ■ States, we avoided making seizures wit' '"'i,lie bays or in any way bringing up th 'r'cadland ques- tion. This was very uin/^tisfactory, be- cause, an it was said by the flsherineu, " if wo liavo these rights we should be pro- tected in the exercise of them," and it was therefore well that that ques- tion should l>e settled at once and for ever. In addition, however, to the question of headlands a new one hoA arisen of an exceedingly ' npleasant nature. By the wording of tli ; Convention of 1818, foreign fishermen wei j only allowed to enter our waters for ilie purposes of procuring wood, water iiul siielter; but they claimed that they had a right, altliough fishing vessels, to enter our ports for trailing purposes, and it was al- leged by our own tishermeit that, under pre- tence of trading, American tishermen were in the habit of mvading our fishing ground^^ and fishing in our waters. The Canadian (lovemmcnt thought it therefore well to press, not only by correspondence, but by a delegate, who was a member of the Govern- ment, upon her Majesty's Qovernment, the prop.iety of having tl^it queation aettled with tho United .States, and, ion8ei|uently, my friend and colleague the I'ostmaster-General went to England to deal with that subject. The results of his ■niaaion are before Parliament. At tho same time that be dealt with the questicn I have just mentioned, he forced upon tho consider- ation of Her Majesty's (icvornnient tho pro- priety of Kngland making on our behalf a' demand on the United States Oovemment for reparation for tho wrongs known afa the "Kenian raids." England agreed to press upon tho United States botb these matters, and to ask that all the disputed questions relating to tho in-sliore lishenes, under tho Conven- tion of 1K18, should be settled in some mode to be agreed upon between the two nations, and also to pre.»8 upon the United States the wroTiga sustained by Caiuula aO the hands of citizens of the United States who had in- vaded onr country. Before Her Majesty's fiovcrnnient had actually, in compliance with thoir promise, made any representation on these two subjects to the United States CdVijniinent, England had been engaged on her own behalf in n controversy of a very yr-ivo character. The House is aware that what is commonly known as the Ahihamn claims was a subject of dispute between the two lountries, involving the gi-avest coiuicquencea, and thut, hitliorto, the results iLid been most unsatisfactory. An at- tempt hail been made to settle the question by what was known as the Johnson-Clarendon Treaty, but that treaty had been rejected by the United St.itei. authorities. So long as this question remained unsettled between the two nations there waa no possibility of the old friendly relations that had so longexisted between them being restored, and England felt that it was of tlio lirst importance to her that those amicable relations should be re- stored. It was not only her desire to bo in the most friendly position towards a country which was so closely associated with her by every tie, by common origin, by common in- terest, by common language, but it was also her interest to have every cloud removed be- tween the»two nations, l«!Couse she had rea- son to feel that her position with re- »]>cct to the other great powers of the world was greatly affected by the know- ledge whion those other nations had of the position of ofifairs between the United States andherself. Thepr6«(ii/eof iJreat Britain as a great power was a£Pected most seriously by tlie absence of an entente torUiale between the two nations. Two years ago England was, oa a matter of course, greatly interested in the great and serious questions which werethenoonvnlsingEurope, and was in danger of being drawn by some complication into the hostUe relations of Home of the conflicting powers ; and she felt — and 1 speak merely what must be obvious to every hon. membe in the House — that she could not press or assert her opinion with the same freedom of action so long as she ' was aware, and 0^ long as other nations were aware, that, in case she should be unfortu- nately placed in a state of hostility with any nation whatever, the United States Oovem- ment would be lorceil by tho United States people to press, at the very time when she might be engaged in mortal conflict with another nation, for a settlementof those Ala- Kama olaimg. Hence, Mr. Speaker, thegreat desire of ICngltnd, in my opinion, that that greivt questicu should be settled, and hence, also, the intciuiiiigling of tho particular q.iea- tions relating to Canada with the larger Im- perial (|Uestiona. And, Sir, in my npmiou it was of greater conae<|UeneB to t'anada than to England, at least as a great conse- quence, that the Atalmvm question should Ih) settlml. (Cheers.) Sir, England has pro- mised to us, and we have all Taith in that promise, that in case of war the whole foi-co of tho Empire shall be exerted in our de- fence. (Cheers.) What would have been the position of England, and what would have been tho position of Canaila, if she had been called upon to use her whole force to defend us when engaged in conflict elsewhere? Canada would, us a matter of course, in cose of war between England and the United States, be the battle ground. We should lie tho aulTerent. Our country would bo de- vastated, our people slaughtered, am', onr property destroyed ; and, while England would, I believe, under all circumstances faithfully perform her promise to the utmost (cheers), she would be greatly im)ieiled in carrying out her desire, if engaged else- where. It waa therefore as much the interest of this Dominion as of Eng- land that tho Atab^ivia and all other questions that in any way threatened the dis- turbance of the peaceful t«lutions between the two countries should be settled and ad- justed, and, therefore, although to a consi- derable extent I agree with the remarks that fell from tho Minister cf Finance when he mode bis budget speech, that, looking at the subject in a commercial point of view, it might have been better in the interest of Canada that tho Fishery and Kenian ques- tions should have been settled free and apart from the Imperial question, I am pleased, and I was pleased, that 'the fact of Canada having asked Enjlaiid to make these de- mands upon tho United States (ri.ve an op- portunity for re-opening the negotiations with riJspect to the A labama and other mat- ters. It was fortunate that we made that demand, for England could not vnth due self-respect have ip'tiated or re-opened the Alabama question. She had concluded a treaty in London with the representative of the United States, and that treaty, having been rejected by the scpreme E-'cutive ot the United States, England could not her- self have re-opened negotiations on tl.e sub- ject. And, therefore, it waa for- tunete, I say, for the peace of the Empire, and for the peace of Canada, that we asked England to make these de- mands upon the United States, as it afforded the opportunitj of all these questions being mai'.e again the subject of negotiation. The correspondence which is before the House between the Secretary of State of the Uiiitey events of tho war, and by the escape of the Alabama, had al- ntircly (fisappeared, and I hope and most ho Alabama, had al- ipean believe that the poojue of the United States wore then and are now strongly in favour of establishing permanently a Tneudly feeling between the two nations. Tnen, besides, they hail a further interest in settling all matters in dispute ; fur so long as tho United States and England were not on friendly terms— so long as they wore standing aloof from each other — itaffccted very ciuisiilerably the credit of the United .States securities i.i Europe. Not only the funds of the United States as a whole, but the securities of every State of the Union, and of all American enterprises seeking the markets of the world were iniuriou.ily atl'ected by the unsatisfac- tory relations between the two countries. They were, therefore, prepared to meet each other in this negotiation. To proceed with the history of the circum- stances immediately \,: uccd'ug tho formation of tho Joint H igh Commission at Washington, I will state that on the 1st of February, 1H71, a communication was mode to me I ., His Excellency the flovemor-General on behalf of Her Majesty's Government, asking me, in case there waa going to be a .loint Commis- sion to settle all questions between England and the United States, whether I wonbl act as a member of that Commission. I give the date because it hac been asked for. The communication was verbal and founded upon a telegraphic communication to His Kxcellency which cannot bo nresented ; and being of a nature which the House can readily understand ought not properly to be laid before this Home. This communi- cation was, in the first place, for my- self alone. I was not allowed to mention it for the time to any one else. My reply was that I would be greatly embarrassed by any injunction of secrecy as regard? my colleagues, and that under no circumstances would I accept the po- sition without their consent. 1 subsequently received permission to communictte it to tl.ein, and I received their consent to act upon the Commission. Before accepting, however, I took occasion, for my own infor- mation and satiKroction, to t.*k through Hia Kxuellency what points of agreement and of difference existed between Eng- land and Canada wjth regard to the fish- eries. The answer was a very short one by cable, and it was satisfactory to inyself. It was extended in the despatch of the 16th February, 1871. It shortly stated that nf course it was impossible for Her Majesty's Government to pledge themselves to any foregone conclusion ; that it was a matter for negotiation, and it waa ot coui-se nut of the queation on the part of either Gov- ernment to give cast-iron iustmctionsto their representatives, because that would do away with every idea of a negotiation. The despatch went on to say that Her Majesty's Government considered our right to the ^hore fisheries beyoni dispute; that they alsS believed that our claims as to the headlands were just, but that those claimb might properly be a matter of compromise. It went on fur- ther to state that Her Majesty's Government believed that, as a matter of strict right, we could exclude the American fishermen entering our ports for puiposes of trade and commerce, and that they could only enter our waters, in the language of tho Treaty, "for wood, water, and shelter," but that this, in the opinion of Her Majesty'a Government, would be a harsh cinstruction of the treaty, and might properly bu a sub- ject for compromise. On reading that despatch I could have no difficulty as a member of the Canadian Government in ac- cepting theposition towhich my colleagues as- sented of plenipotentiary to Washington, be- cause, OS a matter of law, our view of those threo points was acknowledged to be correct, and the subject was thcreuirG devoid of any embarrassment from tho fact of Canadians setting up pretensions which Her Majesty's Govemmenc could not sup- port. (Hear, hear.) When the proposition was first made to me, I felt considerable embarrassment and great reluotanco to become a member of the Commission, 1 pointed, out to my colleagues that I was to be one jl five ; that I was in a posi- tion >i being overruled continually in our discuisions and that I could not by any possibility bring due weight from my isolated position. I felt also that I would not receive from those who were poli- tically opposed to me in Canada thai sup- port which an officer going abroad on behiilf of his comtry generally received and had a right to expect. (Hear, hear. ) I knew that I would be inaite n mark of attack, and this House well knows that my anticipations have been verified. I knew tliat I would not get fair play. (Hoar, hear.) I knew that tha aame policy that had been earned out towards me for ytan and years would continue, am! therefors it waa a matter of grave consideratioE for myself, whether to accept tho ap- pointment 01 not. In that position, 8(r, a sense of duty |)revailero88ea upon me also that I would be wantinff in my duty to my country if I declined the appointment — that im from a fear of the consequences, from a fw that I would sacrifice the positii n I holt in the opinion of the pcoplo of Conada, I (houlil shirk the duty, 1 would be unwortSy of the confideuoe that 1 had received so iMig froii a large (lortion of the people of Canada. (Cheers.) "What," said my colleagues, " would be said, if, in consequence of your refusal, Cauada waa pot represented, and her interest in these matters allowed to go by default ?" Kngland, after having of- fered that position to the first Minister, and it having Men refused by biro, would have been quite at liberty to have proceeded with the Commission and the settlement of all these questi' .is without Canada being repre- sented on the Commission, and those very men who attack me now for having lieen there, and taken a certain course, would have been just as loud in their complaints, and just as bitter in thoir attacks, because I had neglected the interests of Caiiado, and refused the responsibility of asserting the rights of Canada at Washington. (Cheers). Sir, knowing, as I said before, what the consee made upon mn, I addressed a letter to His Excellency the Governor-General, informing him ot tho great difficulties of my position, and that it was only from a pjnse of duty that I accepted the position. On proceeding to Washington I found a general desire among t'.ie two branches inti> which the Joint High Commission divideii itself — an ?qual desire, I should say, on the part of the United StatM Commissioners as well ns on that ot the British Commissioners — that all questions in dispute should be settled so far as the two Governments . could do so. There was a special desire that there should be a settlement of every- thing. It waa very easy for the Commis- sioners ortheGovemment through their repre- sentatives to make atreaty, but iathe United States there isapower above and beyond tho Oovemment: the Senate of the United States, which had to be considered. It was felt that a second rejection of a treaty would be most disastrous for the future ot both nations; th,it it would be a solemn declaration that there was no peaceable solution of the ques- tions between the two nations. An American statesman said to me, " the rejec- tion of the treaty now means war." Not war to-morrow or at iny given period, but war whenever England happens to bo engageeace ■ ' able solution of the difficulties between these '.Indred nations. (Hear.) Still, Sir, I do not forget that I was their chosen represen- tative. I could not ignore tho fact that I' waa selected as a member of >.hut Commission from my acquaintance with Canailian politics. I had continually before me not only the Im- perial question but tho interests of the Do- minion of Canada, which 1 was there i^pecially to represent ; and the difficulty of my posi- tion was that it I gave undue prominence to tho interests ot Canada, I might justly be held in England to be taking a purely co- lonial and selfish view, regardless of the interests of the Empire as a whole, and the interests of Canaila as n portion of the Empire; and, ou the other hand, if I kept my eye solely on Imperial considerations, I might be held as neglecting my especial duty towards my country of Canad,i. It was . a difficult position, as tho House will be- lieve, a position th.;tt pressed upon me with ^reat weight and severity at the time, and it has not been diminished in any way since I have returned, except by the cordial support of my coUeagues, and 1 believe also, of my friends in this House. (Cheers). In order tie show that I did not for a moment forget that I waa there to represent the interests of Canada, I must ask you to look at the des- patch of tho 16th February, 1871, which reached me at Washington a few days after I arrived there. It will bo seen that Lord Kimberley used this expression : — " Aa at present ad- vised, iter Majesty'! Government are of opinion that the rig[ht of Canada to exoluda Amerioana from fiihirg in the water* within >hel is beyo. I an ailo.ju sideratuf mont, roort thi| mure 1 tions ^ privilege! •. waters."! , thi' suggl he llLvTe mid ther tlKlt suoj ' liiiulo tliiiugl olleag-li I n =fc-!-- SUPPLEMENT TO THE MAIL. owardi me for ywis nuc, ain; therofora it grave conuderatioc to aoccpt tlio ap- tliat position, Sir, et\ (oheera), ami my nie also that I would to my coiirttry if I mt — tliat if( from a 1, from a foir that I tit 11 I liulf in tlio f Canada, | thould be unwortl^ Of the ceived ao Itau froii iwoplo of Canada, aid my coUuaguoa, )n»6qiionoo of your not ropreaento<), matters allowed to d, after having of- » lirat MiniHter, and y him, would have lave proceeded with I settleraont of all Canada being repre- sion, and thoao very low for having Iwcn course, would have ir complainta, and ^ke, huoauae I had Canada, and refused irting the rights of ■ (Cheers). Sir, before, what the to myself of ac- id foreseeing the made upon mn, I His Kxcellenoy nforming him of iny position, and a pjiise of duty )n. On proceeding a gciifral desire IS iiitd which the divide, i itself— an on the part of the era as well n« on issioners — that all lould be settled >vemmenta . could ecial desire that iment of evory- for the Commig. irough their reure- but inthe United ■e and beyond tlio the United .States, It was felt that ■y would be most "f both nations; declaration that ition of the ques- > nations. An me, ' ' the i-ejec- iwar." Not war period, but war 1 to bo engasecl :ked from other k'ou may there- and this House n cfliisideratinus 'cIl as upon the 1 Canada, with lunication, if by "ly rigid or pro- lould risk the ope fr.r a peiux ■ s lietwoen these Still, Sir, I do :ho8en rejii'esen- the fact that I' hill. Coinuiissioii uiailiaii politics. lot only the Im- ;8t8 of the Do. 8 there specially Ity of my posi- •■ prominence to night justly be g a purely co- irdlesa of the a whole, and . portion of the land, if I kept nsiderations, I y especial duty nadrf. It was louse will be- upoii me with the time, and iny way since I xirdial support ve also, of my 3). In order to ent forget that e interests of ek at the des- 1871, which ton a few ' ere. It will iberley nsed present ad- ament are of tda to exolnd* W»tanirithiii I the limit of three marine miles of the coast is beyond dispute, and can only be ce■) ' slderation taku the form of a nioney | v- mont, it appears to Her Majesty's (iov' i- mert that such an ari-angcmuiit woul' >e mure likely to work well than if any cou.li- tions were annexed to the exercise of the privilege of lishing within the ('anulian waters." Having rea of compensation to (Ca- nada should be formed. The protw^ol shows, Air. Speaker, that the United Statea Govemmenfi» through their Commissioners, made a considerable advance, or at least some ailvance, in the dii'ectioa of recipro- city, because they offered to exchange for our inshore fisheries, in the first place, the right to lish in the.r waters, vhatever that might be worth; and they offered to admit Canadian coil,si.lt, fish, and, after 1874, lum- ber, free of duty. Tl ey offered reciprocity in these articles. On behalf of Ca- nada, the British C'l mmissioners said that they did not consider that that was a fair -wjuiv^ilent. (Hear, hear.) It is not necessary t'nat I should enter into all the distussioiia and arguments on that point, but it was pointed out by the British Commissioners that already a meacure had ;"»Hfied one branch of the Legislature of the United States making coal and salt free and stuod really to be piisseil by the other branch, the Senate. It was nelieved at that time that the American Congiess for its own purpose and in the interest of American people waa aliout to tnko the duty off these articles, and therefore the Com- mission could not be fairly considered as in any way a compensation, aa Oingress was going to take off tile duty whether there was a Treaty or nit. Then aa regards the duty on lumlier, which was offered to to be taken off after !874,we pointed out that nearly a third of the whole of the time for which the Treaty was propoaed to exist would expire before the duty would be taken off our lum- ber. The British Commissioners urged that that ..nder those circumstances the offer could not be considered as a fair one and that Cana>la had a fair right to demand compen- sation over and above these proposed recipro- cal arrangements. Now, Mr. Speaker, be- fore that proposition waa made, I was in communication ,vith my colleagues in the Ca- nadian Government, who were exceedingly anxious that the original object should be carried; that if we could not get, Reciprocity as it was in 1864, that wa ahouhl b , allowed to retain our fisheries, and that the qucstionn in dispute ahould lie settled ; but Her Ma- jesty's Government, taking the stror.g ground that their acceding ^o our wishes would bo equivalent to an abandonment of the Treaty, the Canadian Government reluct.ratly said that, from a desire to meet Her Majesty's Oovemmdnt's views i>» much as possible, and not to allo'v it to lie felt in England that from a selfish desii-e to obtain all vn desired, we had fniatrated tlie efforts of Her Majcsty'a Government to secure peace, we consented that this proposition should bo made. And, Sir, that proposition was made tc ths UnitM Statea. AUhnngh I do not know it aa a mat- ter of certainty, I have rettaon to believe that if it had not been for the action of this l,c;na. lature last session, we would now be pnsHing an A<^t for the purpose of ratifying a Xi'caty in which coal and salt and lumber Irom ('aiiada would be received into the United Stateafreeof duty. (Hear,hear.) I have reason to believe that had it not been for the inter- position of this Legislature, and I speak now 01 political friends as well as foes, the tema which were offered by the United States would have ]^^'a the compensation to have been settled .'* arbitration, and would have conatitu. ' a portion of the Treaty instead ot'Ka it is now. (Applause.) 1 will tell t'le House why I say so. The offer was mad" early by the United States (iovomment. The answer made by the British Coinmissionera was that, under the circumstances, it waa not a fair and adequate coni]iciibatiun fur the privileges that were asked, ami the British (%naiissioners, attho suggestion of the Canadian (joveriimcnt, re- ferred the ii'sestion to Her Majesty's (lovem- ment wiietner thoy ought not— -in adilition to this offer of the United States — to expect a |>ecuniary compensation, that pecuniary compensation to be settleil in some way or other. That took place on the '25tli March, 1871. On tlie 25tli of March I think the final proposition was made by the United States Government, and on the Sllnd March, two days before, the resolution waa carried in this House, by which the duty was taken off coal and salt and the other articles mentioned. Ileforo that reso- lution waa carried here, no feeling was ox- pressed against the taking olFof the duty on Canadian coal and saltinto the United States. N.) one raised any difhculty about it. I an, aa well satislied as I can be of a thing whicn I did i ot sec occur, that the admission of Canadian coal and salt into the United States would have Iwcn placed in the Treaty if it hail nut been for the action of this Legis- lation on the 25th March. (Hear, hear.) That offer was made, and it waj referred to Eng- land. The Government stated that they quitj Zecd in the opinion that in aflditinn to that ■ there shoul 1 be compeiksation in money, and then on the 17th April the American Com- missioners withdrew tneir offer— as they had therightto do —altogether. And whydidthey withdraw the offer aiti)gcthcr ? One of the Commissioners in conversation said to me, "I am quite surprised to find the opposition that has spning up to the admission of Ca- nadian coal and salt into our market ; I was unprepared for the fecli.g that is exhibited." i know right well what tin reason w.is. The monopolizers having the control of American coal in Pennsylvania and salt in New Vork, so long as the Treaty would open lo them the market in Canada 'or their products, were quite willing that it should carry, because they would ha' e the advan- tage of both markets; but when the duty was taken off in Canada, when you had opened the market to them, when ti»y had the whole control of their own market, and free access to ours, whether for coal or salt, the monopolizers brought down all their energies upon their friends in Congress, and through them a pressure on the American Govern- ment, for the pu.pose of preventing the ad- mission of Canadian coal and salt into the American market, and from that I have no doubt aroEc the withdrawal bv the American Commissioners of their offer. \Vhen my hon. friend from Bothwell (Mr. Mills) said last session: "There goes the Canadian national policy !" _^he little was aware of the con- sequences' of the reckless course Ue had taken. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Hon. gentlemen may laugh, but they will find it no laughing matter. Tlio people of Canada, b )th east and west,|will hold to strict account those who acted ao unpatriotically in the matter (Hear, hear.) Under these circumatancea, Mr. Speaker, I felt myself powerless, and when the American Commissioners made their lost offer, which is now in the Treaty, offering reci- procity in the fisheries — that Canadians should nsh in American waters, and that Americans should fish in Canadian waters, and that fiah and fish oil ahould be reciprocally free, and that if there should bo an arbitration it were found that the bargain was an un- just one to Canada and that she did not re- ceive sufficient compensation for her fishnr- iea by that arrangement — I agreed that it ahould be remitted to Her Majesty's Gov- ernment to say what should be dono, as will be seen by t'.e last sentence of the pro- tocol: "The subject was further discussed in the conferences of April ISth and lOtli, and the British Commissioners having referred the last proposal to their Government and received instructions to accept the Treaty, articlea 18 to 25 were agreed to at the con- ference on the 22nd April." Thua, then, it occurred that theae articlea from 18 to 25 are « portion of the Treaty. One of these SUrr^T^EMENT TO THE MAJL. ! II uHolw ntervu io C'lUiiuU the right ol r«- jeot.ion or uloptiun, and it ia tor tliii P»rh»- UMUit MOW to my whether uiidur all th« 'ircunutanoM it anaU ratify or ruject thoin. Tlia papart that tn* Uouao ihuw havu Itccii Initi be- (nra tlia' Uouao ihow what wna tlio op. laioii iif tho Caiiwliaii (^ovuniiucnt. Uiiilur ijie proaont circuiiiataiicua u( tliat i|uea- tioii, tiio C'anaolicvu tliat it ia for tho iiitoruat of C'anndiv to nccciit tlio Treaty, t4> ratify it by luui'ilittioii, (Huar, biar.) Thr\ Hcliovo it in lor tliu iuturuat of Canada to u ■ ipt it, and they aro nior« in- clined to IniUuve it from tho foot which I niuat »oy haa aur]iri»uj me, and surpriaod my colloiiKuea, and has aurpriacil tho cunntiy- -that tho portion of the Treaty whioh waa 8Uj>i)o»omcnt. It haa been alleged to an ignominious sale of the property of Canada, a bartering away of the territorial righta of tliia country for money. Sir, that auegation could not bo more utterly unfound- ed than it ia. (Hear, hear). It ia no more a tranafer and sale of the territorial rights of Canada than was CeT reaty of 1 854. The very basis of lliisTreaty ia reciprocity. (Hear, hear). To bo sure it does not go so far and embrace so many articles as the Treaty of 1804. I am sorry for it. I fought hard that it should bo so, but the terms of tliia Treaty are terms of reciprocity, ond tho very first clause ought to bo suthcient evidence upon that point, for it doclaren that Canadians shall have tho same right to lish in American waters tb.it Americans will have under the Treaty t.) fish in Canadian waters. True, it may be said that our lish- erioa are more valupblo than theirs, but that doeanjt atlcut' the principle. The pnnciple is thia — that we were trying to make a reci- procity arrangement anu going as far in tho direction of reciprocity as possible, endeav- ouring to carry out a reciprocity law although not a reciprocity treaty lu form. The prin- ciplo ia the sawe in each cose, and as regards the Treaty that has been negotiated it is not conBaed to reciprocity in fish. It provides that the products of the fisheries of tho two nations, lish oil as well as fish, shall bo in- terchanged free. Tho only ayniptom of de- parture from that principle is that if it were found that Canada had made a bod bargain and hod not received a fair compensation for what she gave ; if it were found that while there was reciprocity OB to the enjoyment of riglits and privileges, there was not tru" reciprocity iu vidue, pro- vision should bo iride by which the. differ- ence in valu'''. should be ascertained aud paid to this country. (Hear, bear.) Now, if there is anything approaching to the dishon- ourable and the degrading in these proposals, I do not know the meaning of those terms. (Hear, hear.) This provision may not bo one that will meet the acceptance of the country, but I say that the mamier iu which it has been characterizetl was a wilful aud deliberate use of language which tlie parties employing it did not beliovo at the timo to be accurate, and to which they resorted for political reasons and in order to create misapprehensions in the country. H'u; there was no humil'ation. Ciuada would not tolerate an act of humiliation ou the port of its Government; and England would neither advise nor permit one of Tier faithful colonics to be degraded and cost down. (Cheers). But it is said that the American fisheries are of no value to us. They are not very vali.able, it is true, but f till they have a substantial value for us in this way— that the f^xclusion of Canadian tishermeu from the American coast fisheries would have been a ^reat loss to the fishing interests of tho Mar- itime Provinces, and I will tcU you why. It is quite true that the mackerel fishery, which is tne most valuable fishery ou these coasts, . belongs to Canada, and that the mackerel of the American coast is far inferior in every re-pect to the Canadians, but it is also true that in American waters, the meuhadden, the favourite bait to catch the mackerel, is found, and it is so much tho favourite bait that one fishing vessel having this bait on board will draw away a whole school of mackerel in the very face of vessels having an inferior bait. Now, the value of the privi- lege of eiituring American waters for i atching that bait is vorv urcat. If (Canadian llahur- iiien were oxcliiduil from American waters by any combination among American tlabvr- meii or by aiiuiAct of Congre .<, they would be deprived of getting a single ounce of the bait. American tishermeu might eondiiiio for I liat object, or a law might bo passed by C'oii- greaa forbidding the exportaticn of moiihail- iluii i but by tho iiroviaioii muilo in tho Ti eaty Conoiliaii tishermen aro allowud to enter into American waters to procure the bait, and tho conscitiience of that ia that no such combination can exist, ami (.'anailians can purchase the bait and be able tn tish on o<|ual terma with tho Americana. (Hoar, hear.) It is thus seen. Sir, that thia lleciproeity Treaty i.i not a nu^ro matter uf aentiment— it is a moat valuable privilege which ia not to bo neglected, or deapiaed, or sneered at. "iVitli reapoet to the language of tlieau artii'lea, somu (|Uj»tions have been rais- ed and placed on the paper, and I have aaked tho hon. gentlemen who were about to put them to postpone doing so, and 1 now warn lion, members — ond 1 do it with the "lost sin- cere desire to protect and vindicate the iiiter- e»t8 of Canada— if this Treaty becomes a Treaty, and wo ratify the fishery articles, 1 wi^rn them not t<- raise questions which other- wise might iKit bo raised. I think, Mr. Speaker, there is no greater instance in which a wise discretion can bo used than in not sug- gesting any duiibt. With respect, however, to the (jucstion which ivas put by tho hon. member for the c4 no ipicstion was rr.iscd as to tho exactlocalityof the catch, but all tishbroiight to tho United States market by Canadian vessels were free. I say this advisedly, and I will dixcuss it with tho hon. gentleman whenever he may choose to give me the op- portunity. The same practice will, 1 have no doubt, bo continiiul under tho Treaty of 187>- unless tho poople of Canada themaelvoA raiso the objection. The warning I have just now expressed I am Kiiro the House will take in tho sjiirit in which ib is iUbondcd. No hon. member will, of course, be prevented from ex- ercising his own discretion, but I felt it my duty to call the attcntinil of the IIousu to the necessity for great pi inlunce in not raising needlnssly doubts as to the terms of the Treaty. It will bo rcmcuibered that we have not given all our lisheries away. Tlic Treaty only applies to tho lisheries of tho old iiritish American Provinces, and iu order that tho urea should not bo wiilened, it is provided that it shall only apply to the fisheries of t^tiiebec. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Kdward Island ; so that tho Treaty does not allow tho Americans to have ncc(;sa to tiic Pacitic coast fisheries, nor yet to tho inexhaustible and priceless fisheries uf tho Hudson Bay. These are great sources of revenue yet undeveloped, but after the Treaty is ratified they will developo rapidly ; and in twelve years from now, when tho two nations sit down to reconsider thu cireiunstances and rea<1ju8t the Treaty; it will bo found that other and greater wealth will bo at tho disposal of tho Dominion. I may bo asked — though 1 havo not seen that tho point has excited any observation — why were not the products of the lake fisheries laid open to both nations, and in reply may say that those fisheries were excepted at my in- stance. The Canadian fisheries on tho north shore of the great lakes are most valuable. By a judicious system of pre- servation and protection we have greatly in- creased that source of wealth. It is also known that from a concurrence of cireum- strjiccs and from situation, tho fisheries on the south shore are not nearly so valuable as ours, and it therefore appeured that if we once allowed tho Amer- ican tishermeu to have admission to our waters with their various engines of dcstmc- tio.j, all the care taken for many years to cul- tivate that source of wealth would bo dis- turbed and injured and really prejudiced, and there would bo no end of quarrels and dissatisfaction in our nar-ow waters, and no reciprocity, and there- fore that Canada would be much better off by preserving her own inland fisheries to herself, and have no right to enter the American niarket-s 'with the pro- ducts of those liBhcries. This was tlie reason why the lake fisheri^ia were not in- cluded in tnia arrangement. Now, Sir, undei' the present circ'.imstances of the cose, the Canadian Qovenuueut have decided to preu U|Kin this House tho policy of accepting Troal. articloa. I may bo liable •■!-■<'•• w>>-' — ...^ V—— [Mil,. thia Treaty and ratiiyiuj L the Kioiiciiy to the diarge of injuring our own caao in diacuaaing the ailvantagea of the arrange- meuti beeauae every word used by mo may be ({uotcd and uiied aa eviileiico against iia hereafter. Thu atatement haa been ao thrown broailnaat that the arrango- nieul is a bad one for Canoila, that iu order to show to thia Huuao aud thu country that it ia one that can be accepted, one .s obliged to run the risk of hia language being used before tho Coiumiaaiunera to settle the amount of conipuiisatioii as an evidcrico of the value of tho Treaty to ua. It aeeina to mo that ill looking at the Treaty in a coinmeroial point of view, and looking at the (|ueation whether it ia right to accept the articles, we have to eona'der mainly that intereat which is moat peculiarly allucted. Now, uul'iaa 1 am grt.abiy miainformotl, tho fishery inter- ests in Nova Scotia, wit'i one or two cxccptioni for locul rcaaona, aro alto- gether in favour of the Treaty. (Hear, near.) They are anxioua to got free admia- aiou for thei' tish into the American market, that they would view with great aurrow any action of tnis IIouso which would exclude them from that niarl^et, that they look fur- ward with increasing confideneo to a large development of their trade and of that great industry ; and I say that that being the cose— if it be to tho interest of tho tishermeu and for tho advantage "f that branch of national industry setting aside all othor considerutioua — we ought not wilfully to injure that interest. Wiy, iJir, what ia the fact of tho case as it stands !! Tho only market fur the Canadian No. 1 mackerel iu tho world is tho United States. That is our only markot and wo ore practically ex- cluded from it by the present duty. Tho consequence of that duty is that our fishcr- lueii are at the mercy of tho American lisli- eriiieii. 'I'hey arc mode the hewers of wootl and tlie drawers of water for tho Americans. They are obliged to aell their fish at tho Americans' own price. The American fishermen purchase their fish at a nominal value luid control the Ame- rican market. The great profits of the trade are handed over to the American fishermen or tho American merchants engagcil in the trade, and they profit to tho Imss of our own indus- try and our own peoylo. Let any one go down the St. Lawrence on ii summer trip, as many of us do, and call from the deck of tho steamer to a fisherman in his boat and see for what a noininal price you can secure the whole of his catcli, and that is from the absence of a market and from the fact of tho Canadian fishermen being completely under the control of the foreigner. A\ ith tho duty olT Canadian lish, tho Canadian fisherman may send his fish at tho right time when he can obtain the best price to the American market and thus be tho means of opening a profitable traile with ihe United States in exchange. If, therefore, it is for tho lulvuntage of the Maritime Pro- vinces, including that portion of Quebec which is also largely interested in the fish- eries, that this Treaty should be ratified and that this great market should be opened to them, on what ground should we deprive them of tliia right ? Is it not a selfish ar- gument that tho fisheries can be used oa a lever iu order to gain reciprocity in dour, wheat and other cereals t Are you to shut our fishermen out of this great mar- ket in order that you may coerce the United States into giving you an extension of the reciprocal principle ? AVhy, Mr. Speaker, if it were a valid arguii eut it would be a selfish one. What would be said by the people of Ontario if the United States hatl otlered, for their own purposes, to admit Canadian grains free and Nova Scotia had objected, saying — " No, you shall not have that market ; you must be deprived of that market for ever unless wo can take in our fish also. You must lose all that great advantage untU we can got a market for our fish." Apply the argument iu thij way and you will see how selfish it ia. But the argument has no fuundatiou, no basil of fact, and 1 will show thia House why. In 1854, by a strict and rigid oliser- vaneeof tho prineipleof exclusion, theAmeri- coi>fislieiiucnwcreilriven out of those waters. At that time the United States were free from debt, and they had a large capital in- vested in their fisheries. Our fisheries were then in 'their infancy. They were a "feeble" people, just beginning as fishermen, wi'ih little capital and little akili, and their opera- tions were very restricted. I do not apeak disparagingly, but in comparison with the fishermen of the United States there wns an absence of capital and skill. Tho United States were f reo from taxation ; they had this capital and skill, and all they wanted was our Canadian w'atera in which to invest that .»pital and exercise that skill. But how ia it altered? Now oar fisberiM a.-* no lovar by wbioh to obtain reciprocity in grain. What do the United Htatea care for our tlauories t The Auiurican tiahernien are oppoaed to the Treaty. Tlioao intereatod io the Hslieriea are aendiiig petition after petition to the United States ('Overmnciit and Congreae, praying that tho Treaty may be rejeetetl. They aay tlmy do not want to come into our watera. The United Ktatoa Uovernment hrve gone into this Treaty with every deairo to aettlo all posaiblo aoureea uf ililllculty. Their liahernieu complain tlint they will sutler by it, but tho United States (foveriiinent desire to meet ua face to face, hand to hand, heart to heart, to have an arnica- blu settlement of iliaputea. They know that that they are not making political friendaor gaining political strength, bocauao intereata moat affected by the fishery articlesareagainst the Treaty, but they desire that theillfeeliiiga which arose during the civil war and from the yf/u/j(irmi case shuiild be forgotten. A feeling uf frieiidahip haa grown up between^ tho nations a^d it can lie no otner doaire than to foster and cncuurago that feeling which dictates tho agreeing to these particu- lar articles. If, then, Canada objects to the treaty the United States ( ioveriunent wUl aim- ply say — " Well, if yuu do nut like these ar- rangements, reject tbeiii;an(i tho consequeneo bo un your own heotl if thia frieiidahip ao auspiciously comnieiiceil is at any time broken by unhappy cullisiuns in your watera." It being six o'clock Mr. Speaker left tlio cluui. AVTEB RECEM. Sir JOHN MACDONALD reaumey the tJ ^tbe Uiiltf to enter ' ' and to After Bermiwiil yiv not I 1H14. on that I look bl will tiiiill threti- only aetti ^lio Co ;Claimrt < our shorl Jiowever| terost uarefully J will I that argil ^Sfjeatot h "Wonlil 11818 iKaiil frl;;iiu »( J • " Sliicu 1 JIWIU, llio I «l'r«>vlm:ei».l and Ibi (111 timt ttiu c(l ..pnivtsi'mKr ■'■hmUi; liy I 'tfitH ttMhiiinl all I M) iivtl| lln-l.r..|.M- Indiin.-i. JUIVO iH'fll ioimdatUH we Hliall »' , tlio <-"IIV „iec'in-tly, i ' Irw ir-iu , ivu nut t T ©TJFPLEMEl^JT TO THE Mi^IH.. 6 7^ VVIiit do th* Unite,! our lUiioriui f Xht aro <>p|joav<| to tli« roBtoil in the Halierioa I after pstitidn to the orniijciil and C'ungrgu, fonty may bo rujeeteil! t viimt to cdino into ntir "1 Stiitca Uovcrnnient » Treaty with ovcry II iiouiblo aourcei of ijiurniou complain that l)Mt thu United Statu* J nicct III faco to face, hcai t, tohavoan anitcn- iitea. Tliey know tliat »in« political friendii or iKth, lioiiiuno intereiitu l:ory ai tiulcsaroagainut I'miethattliuillfoilinui. i« civil war and from iild bo forgotten. A lias ffrowii up between an lie no other dctire ' icourimo that feeling veing to theso particu- C'luiaila objccta to the I fALD reaumed hia vfraiil Iniuat apologize intoreating manner in I'ject befoiethellouae K, tt» well as I could, 0118 for that opinion, staucoa the Treaty, lat wo dcairo, ond I presseil for, oughi liall not pursue that greater length, aa ; tlio mcoaura 1 have again an opportunity rther views on the >y occur to me, or aa shall, however, call 'f the Uonae, and I'ers of the Houae ttoution to the aa regards the il treaties between Kngland, to the aty m thia respect, low and for ever to whether thj con- rcpealed and oblite- 154. This question, t has occupied the ;ate8 iurista, audhoa and elaborate diaous- ewthepretenaionof eous, but it has been 'e know the pcrtiiia- I'sareprcssedbythe an example in the •he Kiver St. Iaw- •■os discussed from apparently settled s two nations, wo" t the United States d the dilTereuce be- 1 pressed in 1828 by tliat pressed in 38ult of the treaty, ir.) And, Sir, it oe, in my point question which hy American also the pertina- s are urgeJ, should 4 The question has i nierkaii Law Se- m tide understood to 9 Pomeroy, a jurist 9 States, and that " the real opinion of although I hold udour is shewn from the known hat in one por- iahes the claim of the right to trade vos in an able of the American ours for any pur- ater, and shelter ■ The view thers, and among 1 name I do not; re very valuable "Iipeared in the : the Treaty of a settlement of a country between States coLtended [» and ia now in iotingtlMboaitd- try, and was not abrogated oraffeotwl by thu war of 1812. IJmler the Traiity of 17«;) and ^by the tomia of 'that Treaty, the tiaheriiieii of Hbu Unitoil States liad the iinrestrainvd right tu enter into all our waters u|i to ourslidres, ' kiid tu every part of llritish North America. After 1815 Kugland coiitendwl that that Jwrmiaaion was alirograted by thu wur, and irax not renewed by the Treaty of Peace of JH14. Thu two nations were thus at inaue i>n that very grave tioiiit, ami thuso whci fook Inuik to the tiihtoiy ul that day ^ill Hnd that the ditleninco on tliat point |klu«iten«n». Thnt thu Slulc lli'lnirlniciil iit '.Vi«lilnKlon ,':aliouK; by it« Milenio have mtlnitti'U thu cnrrectnuHH of vitila awtniii|)tii'n, which isei|imlly optHjaod to prlnclplo 'All P.O anthorlty, [h luninrkuhk. Wu MUall maintain 4hu proiKiHlUoii that tlic Treaty of Pta^^o of \lr<'.i Ik now In full forrc, that all llniltAttona niton it^ otlli-ioi-ry have tHiiin relnovod ; ami thai it in tlia oiitv Kour'iii aim lonndatlon of American Dbliiri^ rii^hta within the North- ';,Eaiit«rii Territorial watum. In |iiirHnliii{ tlie diMm>ui'in we NhatI hIiow, Hrst, tlinl llio reinini'iatory {-laimcH of ttio convontlon of lais liavo Niun removed ; and ■ secondly, that artlrle ill of tliu Treaty of 17S3 tlnla left • free truui tho reatrlctlrnii of tho hiiiweiiuont uuuipact, ■IfiM nut Mhrojfated hy tlie war uf 1312.*' 1 The writer tliuH concludes : I " Article 1 1 1 of the Treaty of 1 783 i» therefore In the nature of an execnted ((rant. It created ami confer- red at one blow ri^lita of ))ro|M!rty, perfect in llioir nature, and aa peniianent it.4 the dominion over tlie pationai Hoil. Theiiu rli^hti aro lietd b, 'tlie 'iihabit- .' ant^ of tile I'niletl HtatCN, and are to lie excret.seil in -Uritiah territorial waterii lln.tlTi^cteti by the war of 1812, thoy Ktlil uxiHt in full force and vlirour. Under - ;,; tho provlHiona of thia Treaty, Ainoricun citliMimi aro ■^ now untitled to tai rador. **Tlie final conclusion thu'; rcrclied ia anatalncd by Erincipie and by autiiority. We Htibmit that it ahould e adopted by the (lovernmunt of the United Statua, and maiiu tho liaaiH of any further ncgotlationa with Great Britain." I ^uoto tliis for the purpose of i showing that tho pretension was for- ; mally set up and claboifttcd by jurists of no mean standing or reputation, and therefore it is one of the merits of thu Treaty that it forever sets the disputo at rest. Tho writers on this subject, tho very writcrt of whom I have spoken, admit that under this Treaty the claim is gone, because it is a formal odiiii.isiou by the United States flovemment that, under tho convention of 1818, we had, on the 8th May, 1871, a pro- , prietar^ right in these inshore fisheries, '':' imd this was so admitted, after the ques- tion had been raised in the United States, that the ratification of the Treaty of 1854 was equal in its effect to on abrogation of th3 convention of 1818. They agree by this Treaty to buy their entry into our waters, and this is tho strongest possible proof that their argument could bu no longer maintained. Just as tho payment of rent by a tenant ia the strongest proof of bis ad- mission of the right of the landlord, so ia tho agreement to pay to Canada a fair sum as an equivalent for the use of our fisberieB an acknowledgment of the permaueut con- tinuance of our right. So much. Sir, for the portion of the Treaty which affects the fisheries. I alluded, a few minutes ago, tc the St. Lawrence. The si .render of th' free navigation of the River St Lawrence in its natural state was resisted by Eng- land np to 1828. The claim was renewed hy the present Government of the United States, ard asserted in a message by tho present President of the United States. Her Majesty's Government, in tho inatruo- tions sent to her Commissioners, took the power and responsibility in this matter into their own hands. It waa a matter which we IMald iiOt control. Being a matter of boundary between two nations affecting a rivor which forms thubotmdary between the iiinita of a port of the Empire and the limits ot the United States, it is solely within the control of Her Majesty's Government, and in the instructions to tho plenipotentiaries this language was used — "Her Majesty's Gov- ernment ar« now willing to grant the free navigation of the St. Lawrence to tho citizens of the United Stutes on the same conditions and tolla m are impoied ouBlituh tabieota," I need not aa;', Sir, that, av a matter of aenliinon'', 1 regretted Hua ; but it was ' matter uf aciitinif^nt only. However, there couhl bo no practical goml tu C'anaila in reslating tho ooneeasion ; and there woa no piiHaible evil inllicted on Canada by tho concesHion of the privilege of navigating that aniall iiicu of broken water between St. Itcgis und Montreal. In no way could it allcct prejudicially thu inter- e»ta of Canada, her trade or liir com- merce. Without the une of our canals the liver woa uauleaa. Up to ilontrcal the St. Lawrence ia open, not culy to the veaaela of tho United States, but to tho veaaela of the worhl. Caniulu courta tho tradu ai'd ahipH of thu worhl, m\A it would have been moat ubaurd to aiip|K>ae that the ports of Qiie- lioc aiiil Montreal ahould lie cloHcd to Ameri- can shipping. No greater evidence short of actual war can be adduced of unfr'fniUy relations than tho fact of the ports of a country being cloaed to the cotninerco of another. It never enterwi into tho minds of any that our ports should bo closed to the trade of tho world in general or the United States in particular, no more tluui it would enter into the minds of the Kiiglish to close tho porta of Lon- don or LiveriKiol, those ports whither the Hags of every nation are invited and welcomed. (Cheers.) From tho source of tho St. Litwrence to St. llugis the United States are part owners of tho banks of i,lie river, ami by a well known principle of in- teriiatitiual law thu water tlowiiig betwoen tho two banks is common to iKith; and not only is that apriiuipleof law but it is a mat- ter of actual treaty. TliO only queation then was whether, aa the Aiiicricai! people had set their hearts u|ioii it, and as it could do no barm to Cauiula or to England, it would not lio well it set thia question at rest with tho others, and ni,.ko the con- cession. This was the Hue taken by Her Majesty's (iovernnieut, and which they had a ri^iit to take ; and when some one M'ritcs my biography— if i am ever thought Aortliy of having such an intitrestiiig document jiro- jiareil — and when, as a matter of history, tho questioua connected with cliis Treaty are up- held, it will bo found that upon this, as well as upon every other point, I did all 1 couUl to protect tho rights and claims A tho Dominion. (Cheers.) Now, Sir, with respect lo tho right itself, I would call tho attention of the House to the remarks of a distinguiahod English jurist upon tho point. I have read from the work of an American jurist, ami 1 will now road some remarks of Mr. Phillimore, a standard English writer on iutematioual law. AVhat I am about to read was written under the idea that tho Americans were claiming what would be of practical use to thorn. Ho wra not awaro that the diflicultiea of navicjatiun were such that thu concession would oo of no practical use. He writes aa foUowc : — "Great Britain iMwsessearry, Uiat tho present claim of tho United States with rospecl to the navigation of the St. Iiawreiico was precisely of t lie same nature as that which Great Britain had put forwaed with respect to tho navigation of the Missis- sippi, when the mouth and lower shores of that river wore in tho jiosseasion of antither Stnt^t, and of which claim (Ireat lIHtain bail procured tiio recoipiitlon by tho Treaty of r.irls In 17(i:i. " The nriiiclpal arguinenteontaincd in the reply of Cireat Britain wa-s, that the liberty of pasaaj^e by one nation through the domlnbins of another was, acconl- Ing to the doctrine ol tho most eminent writers upon International Law, a' qualified occasional exception to the iiaramount rights of property; that It was what these writers catlL>d an impfrJcH, and not a ptrjeet right; that the Treaty of Vienna did not sanction this notion of a nirfurat right to tho free paasage over rivers, but, on the contrary', the inrer*^llce was that, not being a natural right. It required to bo establlsheti by a coittisnti'on; that the right of passage once con- ceded must hold good for other purjiostsi lictldca those of trade In iieace- for hostile purposes in time of war; that tlic United States could not cnnalatcntly urge their claim on principle witliout being prepareil to ap- ply that principle hy way of reciprocity, in favour ol British stibjrcts, to the navigation ot tho Mississippi and the Hudson, to which access might be had from Canada hy land oorriage or by the cauals oi New York and Ohio. " Tho UBlted States roplM, tt^ inotically the St. *jlwnoi.si w«i % strait, and was ntibject to llie same principles of taw ; and that as utraifs aie aecetMory to ^',.- *eaa which tliey iiiiltti and therefore the right of navlg..ting them K coiiiiiitin to all nations, so the Ht l.awrclu 'I eonnei t . will, tiio ocean those great Inland lakes, III the chores ol wlilili the siilijects of thu Ulillad fliale;, and Great llrltaln both dwell ; and, on the saniu prtneiplu, thu natural link of the rirtr, 'Ike the natural link of tlio dtrail, ninsi bo eniialiy available for the purtNites of iias- tioge hy Isith. Tiie iwsaage ovur land, wliich wrs al- ways pi-essiiii/ ujKiii the niTndi of the writers on Inter- national Law, is liilriiiHlcally different from a imssage over tva*«r ; In tho l.itter instance, no detrlnientor in- eonvciiiunoe can Ite Hiistalned by the country to wliich It liolongM, Tliu trat;k "f the ahip la effaced as soon as niaitu; tlie tr.u:k of an arinv mav leave serious and lasting injury behind. The (Jllited States would not ' shrink' from thu 'i:tpli(atioli of the analogy Willi ro- s|ieut to tha navig'iit<'n of tiiu Mississippi, and when- over a eoiinecllon w , is cffectuti between It and Upiter Slates anil tlie Ht. Lawrence, liie same pf Inclple should Isiapplletl. It was, however, to Im rreoilcetotl, that the case of rivers whlcil lioth rise and dlsenilstgiiu liitmselves within the llniltn of the same ii'ilion U very dhMnirui'.biible, upon principle, from that of rivers wliic'li, biiliig Ibelr sources ami navlgaltlu |sir- tloiis of thi'lr stn-aiiis In Stal4js uisnu, discharge tiiuni- solves within the limits of ttther States IhiIow. " Lastly, the fact, that tlie free navigation of rivers liMil lieeli miwlfl a matter of corilMtn.'ion dkl n<>t dis- prove that this navigation was a matter ol natural right restored to its projsir position by Treaty. " The result ol tills coiitrovoni., lias hitiierto pro. dncc'l no effect. Great llrltaln boa nialiitAliied bur oxciuslvo rlgiit. The United States still remain do- Isirred from the use of this great highway, and aro not jicrmltted to carry over it the priHliuw of the vast ami rlcli territories wbleh border on the lakes aliove to the Atlantic ocean. " It seems ilttHciilt to deny that Great Ibitain may ground licr refusal iijioii strict law; but it is at least eipialiy dilTleutt to deny, Hmt, that In so doing she ex- ercises harshly an extreme and harsh law; secondly, that hor conduct with respect t of the Uliltoit States. "An Knglisli writer apoii international law cannot but exp'xiss a liope that this summmn jxu, which in tills case approaches to nininia ii^nria may be volun- tarily abandoned by his coi'ntry. Since the lat.. revo- lution in tho South American Provinces, by which tho dominion of Rosas was overthrown, there apiaiars to lie good reason to lio)ie that the States ol I'arai.'uay, Iloliviu, Buenos Ayres, and Brazil, will 0(1011 the lllver I'arana to the navigation ol tho world." On reading a report of a speech of my hon. friend the member for lAiiib- ton on this subject— a very able and in- teresting speech, if he will a'.'.ow me so to characterizu it — I find that, in speaking of tho navigation of Lake Mich'gan, he atatod that that lake woa as much a portion of the St. fjawrence as the river itself. I do not know under what princijile my lion, frieinl ma'lo that statement, but those inland seas are seas, as much as the Uhu:k .Sea is a sea and not a river. Tho. lake is enclosed on all aides by United States territory. No portion of its shores belongs to Canada, and England has no right by inteniatinnal law to claim its navigation. Sir, she never has claimed it, for if iny hon. friend will look into the matter he will find that thcie great lakes have ever been treated aa inland seas, and, as far as magnitude is concerned, they are worthy of being so treated. Although her Majesty's Commissioners pressed that the navigation of f.,ako Michigan should be granted aa an equivalent for the navigation of the St. Law- rence, the argument could not be based on the same footing, and we did not and couhl not pretend to have the same grounds. It is, however, of little moment whether Canada has a grant by treaty of tho free navigation of liike Michigan or not, for the cities on the shores of that Lake would never consent to have their ports closed, and there is no fear in die world of our vessels being excluded from those ports. The Western States, and especially those bordering on the great lakes, would resist thia to the death ; and I would like to see a Congress that would venture to close the ports of Lake Michigan to the shipping of England, or of Canada, or of the world. The small portion of the St. Lawrence which lies "oetween the two points I have mentioned would be of no use, and there is no advantage to lio obtained therefrom as a lever ^'.o obtain reciprocity. Mr. MACKENZIE— (Hear, hjar). Sir JOHN MACDONALD— My hon. fnendsays "hear, hear ;" but 1 wdl tell him that tho only lever for the obtaining of reciprocity is tho sole control ot our canals. So long as we have the control of these canals we are tho masters, and can do just as we please. American vessels on the down trip can run the rapids, if they get a strong Indian to tteer them ; but they will nevercome back again nidess Canadachooscs. (Hear, hear.) Tho keel drives through tlicso waters and then the mark disappears forever, and that vessel will be forever absent from the place that once knew it unless by the coneent of Canada. Therefore, as I pointed out before the retieaa, oa we had no Uver in ourliahoriea to get reciprocity, aowu had none in the navigation of the St. liftwreiii e In it* natural courae The real aubatontial mean* to obtain reciprocal trade with the United •Stateais in tho canala, and ia oxprenaly atatod ill the Treaty; and when theTrcaty, inclauaa 27, which relatea to thecanals, uses thoworda : "The Government of Her tiritannio Ma- jeaty engagea to urge upon the Govemm'snt of the Dominiiin of Canada to aecuro to tho citizens of ilio United States the use of tho Welland, St. Ijawrence and other canala in the Dominion on terms of eipiality," &c., it eontaii'., " vlmiaaion by the United Statea — and it ia 01 mo oilvantage to have that ad- miaaion— that the canals are our own prop- erty, which wo can open to the United States as wo please. 'I ' ' reiaon why thiaad- miaaion ia importanti'i 1 "Article twenty- six provides that tho 1 ;,'ation of the River St. Ijtwrence aacentliiiK and descending from the 45th parallel of north latitude, where it ceoaes to form tho bonudsry liotwoonthe two countrica, from, >.o, and intotho soa, ahall for ever remain free and open for the pur- poses of commerce to thu citizens of the United .States, subject to any laws and regulatiuna of Great Kritain or of the Dominion of (Janmla not inconsistent with such privileges of free navigation." Therefore les it lui^^ht be argued that as at the tiuio the 'IVcaty was made it was known that for the purpimc of iiHccnt tho riverr' • id not I > ovonuimo in ita natural course, vhe firoviaion granting the right of oacont must lu hold to includu the navigation of tho canals through which alone the aacent oould be maile. And so tho next clause provides and apeciiies that these canals are sjiecially within the control of (.'aiiada and the Cana- dian Government, and prevents any infer- ence being drawn from the hiiiguage of tho precodiiig ailicle. I know, ,' froe to both iiatioua, ao that all tboaa uhannelH were made common to both nation's iti'd are ao no'./. Cainula baa maile appropriiitioiia for the purixmu of the iniproveiiiont of these watorn. There were alao approprii'.tionfi made— 1 forget whether by the I'nitud fStuten, by tho Htato oi Michigan, or by private iudiviiluala — for the iiiirpoae of iiiipruving theao watera, and ttiu Unitoil Stiit<-a mailo a canal through the St. Clair l-'iath. The ipieHtion then aroau whethar thiH caiiivl wiM within Canatlian ter- ritory or within that of tho United Statea. 1 have 110 doubt that the oiigiiicoring olllcei apiKiinted by the United SUitea to ebooae tlm site of tlio canal and to conatruct it, acted iii ^oo.l fuitli in i-liooHing the nito, believing tha': It <.vai 111 the Uiiitcil States ; and from all ( can learn, auliae<|ueut ubservationi proveil t'uat to lie the caao. Mr. .MACK KNZIK -Hear, hear. Sir .lOIIN MACIKINALD — My hor. friend sttya "Hear, hear," and I have no doubt be will give im an argument, and an able one too, as bo i» (piite competent to do, to ahow that under the Treaty tbia canal ia in Caiuula. . All argument might be founded in favour of that view from the language of the report of the International Coniiiiifsiunera appointed to determine the boundary lictweon the two countriea— that is, if we looked at the language alone and coinliined with that language the evidence of thoae accuatonied of old to navigate tboBe ubaniiels. I admit that an argument might be baaed on the langua)^o of the rep 'rt when it t<]ieaka of the old atiip cbannel, and that from tho evidence and atateiuenta that have been luwle ojh to the poaition of that cbannel might have left it a matter of doubt whether the canal or a portion of it was within the boundary of Canada. The Commissionera not only made a report, but they addeil to it a map to which they ]ilaccd thoir aigna- ture*. ami to any one reailingtho report with the map, and holding the map a» a portion of the rejiort, the cniial will appear to be entirely in the Uniteil ■States. It might, but for the Treaty of AVoahington, have been unfortunate that it ia an, because it might pcrhapH have impeded the navigation of the r'l.'ita by Canadian vessels. Uiit the (|ao8tioii is whether under the old Treaty and the report and map made according to its proriaiona, (which report and map form, in fact, a piirtion of sucli Treaty) the canal is within the United States boundary or not. When the point was raised that the map was inconsistent with tho report, Uer Ma- jesty's (jovenunent, 1 hive no doubt under tbo advice of Her Majesty's legal advisers, aaid it was a point that would not ailu tiiiiu of the existence of llin Trciity, for twelve yeara at leoat, t''.e contiiinancu of "tho iMiniling Hvatuni." H'eknow how valu- able that baa linen to ua, how valuable diir- i ig tbo winter muntlui when wo are deprived iif the uau of our own aeaports in the St. Lawrence. The fatrt that thn American prnaa boa occaaiotially calleil for tho aliolilion of the lyateiu ia a priMif of tho Ihioii which they con- aider it to Ihi. riii'V have aaid, at times when tlioy thougnt an unfrivnilly fueling existed towarda them in t'aiia.j lirst plave,and of the }jegiB- lature in the next, to determine whether it is expedient for them to take advantage of this boon that is ofi'ered to them. As to tho oxpeilioncy of their doing so I have no do'ibt, and I have no doubt Parliament wil eagerly seek to gain and establish those rights for our ships and our railways. (Hear, hear.) Tho only other subject of peculiar interest to Canada in con- nei tion with the Treaty — tho whole of it of course is interesting to Canada as a part of the Empire— but speaking of Canada as Bucli, and of the interest taken in the Trci.ty locally — tho only other snbioot is V'^ manner of disposing of "the San Juan boundary qnestion, lliat is set- tled in a way that no one can abject to. T do not kuow wb«tb«r Bumy bon, members have ever studietl that qunation. It is a moat inttireating one, and boa long been a caiMe of controversy lietwoen the two ooiin- tries. I am liuund to iiphnhl. and I do iip- hidd, the ilrltiah view reapeoting the channel which forma the iMinndary, ua the correct (Hie. The Uniteil Statea (loverninant were, I liolieTu. aa aincerely uonvincnd of tho jna- ti<'e of their own caan. lioth believe«l they were in the right; Inith were llrinly grounded in that opiinoii, ami such being the ciue there waa only oiiu way out of it, and that was to leave it to be settled by impartial i>r- bitration. I think the House will ailniit that no morn iliatiiiguiNhed arbiter could have been ..elected than the Kniperor of Cer- many. In the examination and do- ciaioii of the qunation ho will have the assistance of aa able and ominent jurists aa any in the world, for there ia nowhere a more diatiiguialioVu felt deeply grieved when thoae raida were uninmitte' a- cussed and considered by the Commission ; but tho United States Commissioners object- ed, taking tbo ground tbat the considoration of thoae claims waa not inoludendencu and r.tforeiice. In doing that tluiy took tbo same ground that my hon. friend the inemtHT for Shnrbrooko, with his iMiial acuteiicNa and appreication of the value of language, took when thn matter waa ilia- uussttil in this Huuao before my departure for Washington. He said then that ho greatly doiibtuil whothor, under the oor- reapiHiilnncn which led ^o the aiiiHiintmont of the lligli Comniiaaion, it coiilil tin held tliar, tho Keiiian claims were to lie considered, and although my bun. friend thn Miniatar of Militia, thought it might fairly bo linhl th;it tlioio claima were incluiled, 1 myself couhi not help fueling tfio atrungtli o' the argument ailvancei' by till) lion, meiiil nr for Shorhrooke, ami I atated at the time that I thoU{{ht there wa4 great weight in tliii objection w'nich ho pointed out. Tho American Cnminiiuiionera, as the event provwl, raised tliat objectior, maiutaininjf that tbo point was not includrd ill the corrus|)onde*ice in which tho subjecca, of ileliberation were atated, and whun it w»a proiMised to them by the Hritiab, the Ameri- can ('oinmiaaiouera decliiiisl to aak th.^ir Governiiient for fresh iustrui'tions to elilargn the siM|ie of their duty in that reapeet. Now wo could not help that. Theru war. tho correapondence to apeak for itaelf, and it was a matter of conaiderable doubt whether tliiMo claims were included in it. Tbo Ikitiab Ambaasailiir represented tbat lie had always thought that the corrcapond- euuu did incliido them, and ho was struck with au>|)rise -perhaps I ought not to say siirpriso, for that was not tbo expresHion ho used — but bo was certainly under tho impression that i>. hnd benii re- gariled by all parties that they were covered by the correspondence. Still, lot any one read tlioao letters, and ho will Hud it is very doubtful. At it wiui doubt- ful, and aa objection waa raiaed on that ground, .ho Ilritirh Commisaioncra had no power to compel the American Comiuia- ^ sionera to detirminu the doubt in their favour, and force theao claims upon their consideration. The cniiae<|Ueiice waa that they were omitted from tbo delibiration of tho Commission. Whoso fault » is that? Certainly not ours. It was the fault of Her Majeaty'a Government in not demanding in clear langusoe, in terms which could not bo inisunueratiKid, that tho iiiveatigation of these claims siiould bo one of the matters dealt with by the Com- mission. (Hoar, hear.) It was a great disappointment to my colleagues in Ca- nada that the objection waa talen. and that all hope of getting roilreas for the injury done li;, those Fenitui raida waa destroyed so far as the Commission at Wa-ihingtou was concerned, in coii8c<|uonou of tho defective language of the correspond- ence, and tho defective nature of the sub' mission to the Commissioners. Now, Knglai^d was responsiblu for that error. KnglaniT had promised to make the demand, atuV England had failed to make it. Not only that, but Hor Majesty's Government took the respon- sibility of withdrawing tho claims alto- gether, and Mr. Gladstone fully n ssumed all the responsibility of this step, and relieved the Canadian Government from any share in it, when he stated openly in thi House of Coininons that the Imperial Guvermnont had seen Ht to withdraw tbo clain'S, but that they had done so with great reluctance and sorrow for the manner in which ('anada had been treated. Canada, therefore, hail every right t< look t" lOnglaiid for that satisfacti' i which she failed to receive through tho ,.ulei|iiacy of the correspondence to cover tl, question. England, by taking the responsibi ty of de- clining to push the claims, put bet. If in thn position of the United States, and .o hod a fair and reasonable ri^ht to look to lier to assume tho responsibility of settling thuni. She did not decline that responailiility, ami the consequence has been that, although we failed to obtain rodreaa from tho United iStatcs for those wrongs, wo have had an opportunity of securing compensation froo' England which wouhl not have been offeriS to us if it had not been for the stons taken by this (iovernmont. (Ho,.., hear.) But, Sir, we are told that it ia a great humiliation for Canada to tako this money, or rather this mon v's worth. Why, it is our duo ; wo are entitled to it, and we must have it from some one. Eng land refused to ask it for us fro i the United States, and she accepted ol. tho respon- sibility whieh that rofnf >l involved. She was wise in accepting that .-csponsihility . She must take tho coiisequonr cs, and she is willing to do so. But the C» vadian Govtm- luent, on the other band, ore unwilling that the com{iensation wbicl England thus ncknowlcdgcil was due to v by Tier should take a direct pecuniary forir ^Vo were uii- wilUiig (bat it should be the) iym«iit o£ac«r< I- ■ tain am ■ atrang ■ Moept ^ flint pi made, aniouul ■evinly ■pectiic inn th ^resniiif *>liiglani t'aiKl nut |ou wiiio 'tween ■colony, degree Vetwi'oi try, friendly tilaced i in^ly I without ]^nco o ^upoii lu "morn gi Vo^lvantti Jiionipmii Tbia I ^nthehi ftriea, ar Iprcmiai ?lHear, I :,iOod, Itbown 1 Inga. tlie Ho to guan ijrounde and wi bands farthing '^tinio thi [)t inolmlml in the oiir- niiice. Ill doing tlint ){r<>uiiil tlmk my hoii. r Mhiii'lirc'iiko, with hln piiri'lcatiiin of thu viiliin 111 thii nutter wu (lia- liorore my (lm>ikrtiirii e Mill tliun that hn ithor, iniilur thn unr- 1 tu tliu aiiiHiiiitiiiont of , it iMMilif (Ml htlil thnfi ■e to lie connKlureil, anil friend the Miiiiiitdr of t iiii^ht fiiirlv Im mil Were iiiuludeil, L Uelp foeliiiK thn itr,{iiment ulvanceii for .^herbrooke, and I t I thonuht there wa< (ilijectiim wiiii'h Im ii'ru'an ('ommiHaionern, rninfd that objeotior, >oiiit wai not inchvlrd in which the milijision, latoil, ami when it \v«n he itritiih, the Aniori- iMliiinl to a«k thsir inBtru>:tion> to uiilnrgn liity ill tliat riwiMwt. )lp that. Tiiuru wai: apeak (or itself, and it cralilu doubt whether nciudod ill it. The reproMinted that ho tliat the corrcflpoiid- 1, and he wan utruck J8 I ouglit not i«) Hay not the cxpretwidii u uertainly under ii< had l>6Aii i-o- en that they were indonco. Still, let any ■B, and ho will find ■\i it WiU iloulit- wa» raised on that }unimiMioiier8 liad no 1 Ainoriean I'omiuiii-- the doubt in their se claium upon their oiiiie<|Ucii(;e wa« that in thu delibi'ratiou of ,080 fault u i-i tliat? It wan thu fault , Goveru-jient in not lanffuano, in termn lundi'mtiMjd, that the cluime nhould bo one with by the t.'oni- . ) It was a great y colleagues in C'a- octiuii waa taLen. of getting rodrenH hoee reiiiaii raida waa the Commiaaion at •ned, in GoiiBef|uo>ioe e ot the correapond- nature of tho aub- mers. Now, England error. Knyland had jmand, and Englancl Not only that, but ent took the roapon- tt tho elaiina alto- rio fully .Twumed all is step, and relieved nt from any share in ly in thi House of riaKiovernmont had ;ho elain'9, but that h great reluctance manner in which treatoil. Canada, right tc look to satisfauti' i whicli nyli tile t.idcqiiacy covert! quoation. •eaponailji ty of de- put hei. If in tho ^Atea, and .^o had a it to look to iier to y of aettling them, reaponeibility, and that, although we 111 tlio United Statra had an ojiportuuity on fron- Engl.ind been olTerod to ir tho btoDs taken (Ho..., liear.) that it ia a great to take tbia mon v's worth. ; are entitled to it, n aome one. Eng is fro 1 the United I al. tho reapon- refuf j1 involved. that .•caponaihility, ueiii ca, and she ii iCfl ladianOovtni- 1, ore unwilling licl England thus r by her should r Wo were un- 1 lymciit oiacer* ! suF»PT.KMr:jsrT to tttt^. matl. . tain amount of money, and thnru were Mvnral I Htroii;^ leiMOiia why we bhould prefer not to ' accept reparation in that ahaiHi. In the lliiit place, if n prnpoeal of that kind ware inailL,' it would uauao a diaciiiaion a* to the •nioiiiit to lie paid by Kngland "f a moat un- ■eeiiily character. ^V•< w< I have 'he ■peiitaule of a ji'tdge i|>pnii. d tir dignity or our selfruaixict, IHear, hear. ) The credit of (Jaiiaila, thank 'luod, is well eatabliahed. Her good fLitli ia l^own whei'over ahe hai had Qiiancial ileal- 4nga. I'cr Majcaty's Cuveriiment can go to yie Houae of Commoiin and oak for autiiority to guarantee a Canoilian loan with a well- grounded aaauranc'.) that the people of Eng- Jand will never be caLuil U|>on to p.it their 'hands in their pockets or tax themselves one farthing to p.iy it. (Cheent. ) At thu same '^time tho Impei-ial Oovuriiinent, by giving ua ^'this guaraiituo, grants ua a boon the value of which, in cnab!>iig ua to coiiatnic'y the great works of public improvLmont wo have undertaken, waa explained the other day so ■ably, and in a manner that I would not .'attempt to imita'u, by iny hon. friend tiie (inance Minister, liesides the double advantage to oiiraelvoa in getting the endorsement of Knglaiid wHhoutdisadvantage totheEiigliah people, there ia to boconaidored Ithe great, the enormoua benelit that accrues 4o C^ada from this open avowal on the part f>f England ot the interest she takes in the yucoess of our great publiu entorprises. ^Chdora.) NoonecanBaynow,whe:iaheiaBend- ingout one of her distinguiHlicd atatesmen .pto take tho place of the nobleman who now iao worthily repreaents Her Majesty in the Do- ; minion — no one can say, wlieu England iaaid- ' iiig ua, endorsing n loan spreading over so many years, and which will not be finally ex- .;tinguiahed till most of us now here wiil have l^beeu gathered to our fathers— no one can ' any, under these circumatan^ ea, that she has Miy idea of separating ben if from us and gi.ing up the colonies. (Cheers.) The solid, substantial advantage of being able to obtain money on better terms than wr could on our own credit alone ia not the only bene- lit this guarantee will confer upon ua, for it will puta tlnish ahonce to tho hopes of aU dreamers or speculators who desire or be- ^ lieve in the alienation and separation of the colonies from tho mother cou?'try. That ia A more incalculable benefit than the mere nilvantago of England's giiar.mtee of our tiiiancial atability — groat nii,^ to have made a bargain at all. ^^ She should have allowed tho Fenian claims to go, and dealt with the Treaty separately, ac- cepting or rcj'oting it on its merits. Sir, Caiiiula did not make a bargain of that kind; but she went fairly and openly to Her Ma- jesty's Oovcrnment, and said " Here is a Treaty that haa been negotiated through your influence, and which affects important ooqunoroikl intartst* in thii country, .It ia % unpopular in Canaila in it* noinmorclal a*|Mtit, but is urgwl on us for Imperial eaiiBua nii't for the sake oi the peace of the Empire ; but the |Hicuiiiary interests of Ca- nada should in the o|iinion of the Canadian (lovenimeiit lie coiiside"ed,aiidtlieiiiiiloiihteii olaini of Canoila for coiiit>enaation for theae Kriiian outrages has been set aside. We may well, therefore, call ii|>on you to strengthen our Lands by showing that you are uiiwillina to sacrillcj Canada altogether for liii|icritT puriKMea solely," Sir, we aakeil that for caiiaila, and tlib reBpon8<) was inimmliate and gratifying, except that I'ingland did not ac- cept the whole of our pro]> the £'.^,mX),000 the £1,400,000 which she Huarai.teed some year* siiice to be expeniTed on fortifications and other defensive proparationn. That money had not lieen expended, and there would now have been no object in applying it for the con- struction of works whicn would have been a •tanding menace to the Unitid States, and whicli would havo been altii>^t^tlier out of place immediately after signing a treaty of peace and amity. I do nut hesitate to say, and, I repeat, I lun not sjieaking without book, that 1 lielieve a proposition of that kinil would have lieen at^ceptable to Her A^ajosty's Oovommont ; but when the cloud arose, when there was a possibility of this Treaty lieing held as a nullity, and when there was dkiiger uf the relations between the two countries retiirninK to the unfortu- nate i>osition in which they wore before, then was not the time for England to oak us or for us to propose to give uii tho idea of fortifying our frontier and uefeuding our territory. Then was not the timo either for the Caiiodisn (iovernment to show an unwil- lingness to spend money upon theae worka, or to defend and retain the Dominion as a dependency of the Sovereign of England. (Cheers.) 1 say, therefore, that, while we arc 'iially receiving a guarantee of £2,500,- 000, the relations ol England and tho United .states are again brought into har- mony, and the lowering cloud which re- cently sprung up is removed, and removed in such a way as never to appear again, then it may fairly be thought, it may reasonably be calculated upon, tliat we will have a guarantee of the full amount of £4,000,000, in order to carry uut tho great improre- ments we have entered npon. Tho Finunco Minister has show n you the advantages which Till How from that arrangement, and it would le presumption in me to add a woni to what be haa ao well said npon that point, which ia in the highest degree Hatisfoctory to this House, and in the higheabdegroealso satis- factory tothe people of the country. (Cheers. ) I now move the llrst reading of this Bill, and I shall simply sum up my remarks V,, saying that, with respect to tho treaty, 1 consiJer that every portion of it is unob- jectionable to the country unless the articles oounncted writh the fisheries may be consider- oil objectionable. With respect to those articles I ask this House fully and calmly to consider the circumstances, and 1 believe if they fully .onsidor the situation that they will say it ia for the good of Canada that those articles ahonld be ratitied. Reject the Treaty, and you do not get reciprocity. Re- ject the Treaty, and you leave the tishermcn of the Maritime Provinces at tho mercy uf the Americans. Reject the Treoty, and you will cut the 'merchants engaged ill that trade off trom the American mai'ket. Reject the Treaty and yon will have a large annual expenditure in keeping up a marine police force to protect those hsheries, amounting to about 984,000 per annum. Reject the Treaty, and you will have to call upon England to send her fleet, and givo you lioth her moral and physical support, altliongh you will not adopt her policy. Reject the Treaty, and you will find that tho bad feeling which for- merly, and until lately, existed in the United States against England, will bo transferreil to Canoil.i; the United States will say, and say jnjtiy, "Here, when two great nations like England and tho United States have settled all their difficulties, all their qnarrels, upon a perpetual basis, these happy i-eaulta are to be fruatrated and en- dangered by the Canadian people, because they have not got the value of tneir fish for ten years." (Cheers.) It has lieen said by the honourable gentleman on my left (Mr. Howe) in his speech to the Young Men's Christian Association, that England bad eaciiiiced the interests o{ Camula. If Enxland has sa> 'flosd the in- terests of (,'anaiia, Khat sacritlce ha* she not mails herasif in the cau>« of |ieaceT Ha* she not, forthesakeof |Mace uetwecnllies* two groat iiAtioMs, rends, ed hersilf ILible, leaving out all indirect claims, to pay iiiilliona out of her own treasury T lla* alio not iniuU all this Bacrillce, which only Englishm in and Kngliah atateanii'ii can know, for the aake of ]i«ace, and for whoso good haashe iiiaili itt Ilan she nut made it principally for the sake of Canada. ( Umd cheers. ) let Canada Ic severed from h^igland—let Eiiglanil not lie respoiiBible to ua and furua and what could, the Uniteil States do to I..iglaiid ? Let Eng.. land withdraw herself into her sliell no I what can the United States l tho Uoverr.mont of Canada taken the course which was quite open to them to recommend Parliament to reject these articles, it might have Imen a matter of some interest a* to what ray position would have been. 1 am here, at all events, advo- cating the ratification of the Treaty, and I may say, notwithstanding the taunts of hon. gentlemen opposite, that although I waa chosen for the position of a Commissioner, certeinly because I waa a Canailian, and presumably because I was a member of the Canadian Government, yet my commission was given to nie as a British subject, OS it was to Sir Staffoil North- cote and other members of the Commission. I went to Washington as a plenipotentiary, as Her Majesty's servant, and was bound by Her Majesty's instructions, and I would htve been guilty of dereliction of duty if I had not carried uut those instnictiona. And, Sir, w?.9n I readily joined under the circum- stances in every word of that Treaty with the exception of the fishery articles ; and when I succeeded in having inserted in the Treaty a reservation to tho Government and p3ople of Canada oi the full right to ac- cept or refuse that portion of it, I had no difficulty as to my course. (Cheers.) I did not hesitate to state that, if that clause had not been put in, I would have felt it ne- cessary to resign my commission. I was perfectly aware in taking the course X did of signing the Treaty that I should be sub jeot to reproach. I wrote to my friend* in Canada, from Washington, that well I knew «SB^v «*fsrira*af *»!>■ *«81P tvv*«^*«# v «rx^B« lary of llillii'g^gntv was upenail against i but hero I am, thank (In'' today with the storm of ohloi|uy that woiilil .neet ins on my retiim, and liefore even I crosasd the Ixirder I waa rooiplimented with tho names uf "Judit* Iscariot," "Kent, diet Arnold," Ac. The whole vooahu- me, lay with the ooiivietioii that uhut I dii. ra« for the liest Intel 'MM of Cuiiaili,, and after all the benelit* I have received at tlio hanila ol my country- men, and after the i:oiifidence that has iKen accurdeil nie fur au many years, 1 would have been unworthy of that pimitiun and that conlidenoo if 1 were not able to meet reproach for thu sake of my country. 1 have met that reproach and I have met it in ailcnue. I knew that a pre- niatiire discusaiun would only txas|ierBU still niorx tho fcclnigs of thoa:) who wnre ariayed agaitint me, and of thone who think more of their party than their country. (Loud c leers). 1 do nut speak particularly uf the how. gentlemen op- posite, out 1 say that the policy of ;,lie Oppo- sition is regulated liy "a power behind the throne" whii'h dntator whatthat policy must be. (I.1OU1I cliuira). No one ever saw a patrietic I ilicy emanate from that soiircj except un line uccaaion, and that was whuu that source waa induced i.y inyaelf to foruat party struggles and party feelings for the common goml of the country. ( I xiud cheers). I have not said a wonl for twelve montlis; I havo kept alienee to this day, thinking it better that tho lubjrct sli..ulii lie diaouaaed on its own merit.). Iluwengerlywas I watch- ed ! If the (-Iovernment should come out in favour of the Treaty, then it wiui to bo taken a* being a betrayal of the people of Canada. If the Govfrninent slioiil.' come out againat the Treaty, then the first Minister was to be charged with oiipoaing the interests of tho Kiiiplre. Whiclievor course wu might take they w«>re lying in wait leady with some mode of attack. lUit silence ia golden, Mr. Speaker, and 1 kept alienee. 1 believe the aobur aecoiid thoiie'lit of this country accords with the sulier second t'lought of the Government, and we come down here and ask thu people of Canada, throagh their repreauntatives, to accept this Treaty ; to accept it with all its iinperfectiiMia ; to accept it for the sake of pence, ami for the sake of tho great Empire of which ws fonr. a jiart. I now beg le..ve to introilun the Bill, and to a^r.^c that I have the par- mission of His Excellency to do ^.i. Tlie hon. gentleman resumed hii seat ariidioudand continued applause from all paiia of the Houae, at 0:45, having sp.ikan fo"'' r hours and a quarter. In the HonBo, on Wednesday, May 8th, Mr. MAClJt)U(}ALL said that, from the peculiar position ho occupied towards par- ties in this Houae, he felt bounil at the ear- liest opjiortunity to state the views which he entertaineil with respect to the course that ought to be puraued upon the Motion of tl e Miniater of Juatice, for tho second reoiiing of this bill. With regard to the amendment that had been offered by thu hon. member fur West Durh.tm, he judgeil from the tsnor of the speech with which it had boon pro- faced, and from tho langn..gu in which it was couched, that it amounted proo- ticolly to a declaration that this House should reject the Treaty of Washington. (Hear, hear.) Now, from the tirat day on which he (Mr. Macdougall) had had an opiMirtunity of periiaing and considering the provisions of that treaty, he had come to the conclusion in his own mind, without any hesitation, without any doubt — and he had hail opportunities of knowing soraetliing uf the discussions that hod preceded tho important delibera- tions which resulted, in the treaty — that it would be bis duty as a representative of the people in this Honseto give his sup}>ort to the treaty. He believed upon examination of ite various clauses aud conditions, that it was a treaty framed in the interest of the people of this country, apart altogetUerfromtne<|UCStionwhichhad been dia- cussed at so muchlengthandwithsuchabihty by the hon. gentlemanwho had preceded him (Hear, hear. ) After all the dsoussion that had taken piaco upon it, after all the opiu- ions that had ''cen expressed in this Hona' and the country, after all that had bot^ inid about it by the public press of England aud the United States, as wt'l as of Canada, after every point had been *ully brought out that^could be au>!guat«d. Ins linn, deliberate conviction was that the treaty made between England and Uio United States was, so far as thu clauses vhich affected the people of this country were concerned, a good, a desirable, and a beneficial treaty. (Cheers. ) That was the view he entertained, and it wai> not one wiiioh would ^ SUPPLEMENT TO THE MAIL. T IV;: be disturbed by coniidermibni aa to what bon. guutlumen opposite had said or doue ; whetUur thoir despatches were correct, or their negotiations oleverlv conducted ; whether they were right on this or right on that; or whether the H"t Minister had thronghont acted consistently or not. He thought that these were questions of minor importance, that had no real bearing upon the subject before the House. Hon. gentleman were here aa mem- bors of the Canadian Parliament to consider whether or not tliis short bill should be- come law ; and, aa the discuseion soenied to l>o "vandcrirg away from the re.il a case in a court of law, would see and a'iniit that by this treaty the Americans recognized our absolute rigot of control over the lisheries upon onr coasts witliin the three mile limit; that Pre.iident Grant, when he signed his name to the treaty, and the Senate of the United States when they conliniied it, did each of them perform an act which was a clear and distinct recognition of the rights it was now charged we had given up and would ultimately lose altogether. It was true that the question of heaiUand lin^. .^ich was a special and fspartitc question from that re- specting the three ml!e limit, had not been toiwlieif by the Treaty. That remained just where it was, and it might be a serious question for consie used in their mackerel fishery. (Hear, hear. ) Well, in addition to that privilege, and in further ace "lance with the reciprocity principle; GaiKulians under the treaty would have a right to send their lish, when they caught them, into the best market, and sell them upon precisely the same terms as American fishennan, free of charge, and without hin- drance of any kind whatever. Those who knew liest, no matter what might be said hf re about it, iinpreciated that privilege, that feature of reciprocity at its true value. We heard no complaint from them j wo only heard complaints from hon. gentlemen who came from the wejteru jiait of the Dominion, from the leader of Opposition in this House and the leader of the (lovernmeut in another House, form another leader out- side of the House, and form some of the followers :f th3se gentlemen. They had gone about the country on some of those itinerant journeys they were occasionally bo 'end of (laughter,) endeavonring to agitato anil alarm the people with atorios of evil omen, with statements that a great surrender was to be mode of our fish- eries, which was to cause wide-spreud in- jury to the whole countiy, and especially to the peojilo of the Maritime Provinces. ((Uieers.) But the people who were most interested in thia m.itter, the people who were upon the spot engaged m the fishing business and who hnew bet- ter than honourable genv'.einen from On- tsrio could toll them what was to their ad- var.tageor disadvantage, seem very wel' satis- fied with the treaty. (Hear, hear.) Ho found with regard to Newfoundland, in which tho principal interest was the fishery, that the leader of the (ioveinment in that colony, upon being asked by telegraph to join in a protest against the treaty— that protest wJiioh th« House bkd be«u informei' to-nigbt huy ])rejudice those rights and privileges which she so liberally ^'rant- ed tu the people of this colony under their valueit constitutional charter. he has left us to "xercise our own discretion and free •will to enter the Confederstion of the North American Provinces under tho Dominion flag, and we have every confidence that she will protect us in the enjoyment of those rights and privileges which are so essential to our rrosperit-' and happineis." (Hear, hear.) That was from the leader of the Government of Newfoundland. Then, with regard to the feeling in Prince Edward's Is- land, he found Lieutenant-Governor Robin- son, on behalf of his Jovernmont, spc^lung in the same sense. In a despatch lo Ixird Kimberley, the Lienterant-(»ei'e»*,ior .naid:— "I am confident that y lur Lo'.iship W'U re- ceive with much satinf ictiru the intimation contained in this despit.h, and that the prompt and loyil act' ' ho Government of Prince "^dwanl's Jslaii. , .d pre-disposo Her Majcsty'sCiovernmentto comply, as far as pos- sible, with anj reabonable request which my advisers m.\y consider it to bo their duty to profcr. " Both these Governments therefore, the Government of Prince Edward Islnnd as well aa that of Newfoundland, had. intimated their willingnesa to accept the Treaty, and not only t!o but to jiormit it to go into opcra- tieii iininediattly. They weie prepared to absent to it in ad /ance of the meeting .if their iiCgislaturce, so satisfied were they that on the whole it was not disadvantageous to them ; they said there was no "utility" in lefusing their assent ; no 8.iurd policy to be served in resisting those clauses which the Imperial GoTernmeut had left it in their power to accept or reject. So far then as he (Mr. Mac- dnugall) bail been able to observe, the people of all these fishing Provinces were well satisfied with the provibions of the Treaty of Washington. (Hear, hear. ) Now the House had hearu a great deal to-night, and hodreadjand heardagreatdeal previously, as to this being a master of h'^nour; that we ought net to barter away our honour, cur nationality, our independence, our territorial right'", for money. Well, it had occurred to his mind during tliis discussion that it was Her Majesty's Imperial Ministers who v^re charged by the laws and constitution ve been entei-ed into by the Commission thit was proposed to be appointed to settle the question of interpretation. The reasen- ing that applied in one ease a-ppeared, there- fore, to him to bo altogether irrelevuit when app'icd in the other. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. MacdougalU never believed that the Minister of Justice went to Vv'ashington to represent, in a separate and distinct charac- ter, the pe opie ot this Dominion. He said so in his plare in that House at the time. The moment that that hon. gentleman ac- cepted the appointment he became to all in- tents and purposes the mouthpiece of the Imperial ad"isers of Her Majesty, and boun.I to act upon their instructions, and having no right to assume 'the position of 9. separate and independent envoy. (Hear, hear.) He told the hoi gentleman then, that in nccepting tho app tment, he had placed h'mself in an ombarrai:^ing posi- tion, and that, no matter how he acted, or what settlement was made, he would be attacl'"-' by those who' were politically opposed t m. WTiether, under these cir- cumstances, he jgnt to have accepted the office he (Mr. Mac^ongall) would not assume to determine; but this he would say, that when the hon. gentleman became a member of the Commission, the interests of Canada were well represented. Whatever n.ight bo the opinion cf tho House as to the Government an-J its policy, they must all say on both sides thtt, looking to the public cvrecr of the hon. gentleman, looking to the skill and ability with which he had conducted tho aff'airs of the country in past times, looking to his intellectual capacity and commanding grasp of political subjects— if there was one man who had become qualified to speak in the name of the pe' ole of this Dominion — that bon. goutlei .n was the man. (Loud cheers.) He (Mr. Macdougall) was sure that, if tliey had confidence in the hon. gen- tleman's integrity, thoy recognized so inr his intelle.''tual power, his knowledge of con- stitutional law, his knowledge of constitu- tional history, and the affairs of this country, a public man pre-eminently qualified to ro- pi'esont, defend, and advocate tho interests of the people of this country in any great negoti:;tion of that kind. (Cheers. ) Now, if that could be truly said of him as a public man ho (Mr. Mo'^dougall) wrnted to know if i^ was reasonable to suppose that in the delicate position he occupied, he had failed to act with firmness and yet with a loyal de- votion to his Queen and country t Is there a man who knows him as we knc-v him, who can loe persnadeil to believe that be did not endeavour, by coitsultationi and arguments with his colleagues, to bring about the beat arrangement for Canada, and one that wonld be acceptable to u> ? (Hear, hear. ) He bkdno doubt whatever tiiat that WM Hf t course I sued, Isition Ibiiii Ht. (t yiad 111 lopi SUPPLEMENT TO THE MAIL. 9 iw very little of the mat- quite poB.si))le that thcst m the west miglit know jcoplo what was for the ire, and might know hfit- 10 good of the (ishcnnen maclvcs, but 'lo lagged to ion. gentlemeii who liel.l not inclined to think tliej hority upon thit point, tv and ox,,erience. Ho analytical skill of the had last addi, jsed the n intellcetu-I gladiator, charmed tlioni air. Rut n carefully throi if Her Majesty, and ' Jieir instructions, and ' assume 'the position independent envoy. Id the hoi gentleman B[ the app. tment, he an ombarrai;»ing posi- I natter how he acted, a was made, he would I who' were politically J icther, underthose eir- ^ to have accepted the 1 gall) would not assnme «j ho would say, that ;« lan became a member ^ B interests of Canada ^ Whatever n.ight be 31 IB House as to the M its policy, they " both sides thet, I'lio cireer of the oking to the skill I he had conducted the n past times, looking city and commanding eta— if there was one lualified to speak in of this Dominion — as the man. (Loud [acdongall) was sure lenoe in the hon. gen- r rocogniiied so f kt hie I knowledge of eon- awlodgt of constitn- iffaira of this country, ntly qualified to ro- dvooate the interests country in any great id. (Cheers.) Now, lid of him as a public ill) wrnted to know snpjKue that in the upiod, he had failod I yet with a loyal de- country? Is there a we kncT him, who ievo that he did not ions and aratuments bring about the bert ada, and one that i«r (Hear, hwr.) Ha 'tiiat that WM ^f course which tht hon. gontlcnmn had pur- isucd, and that thope who, on thj Oppo- [lition aide of the llonsc, arraimicd tliini in their hem t of licaitu Imd no iliiubt of 'it. (Cliccra.) 'I'liey i'.:d not liclicvo that ho liiui not laboured to ol)taiii the moat favf/iir- (ililo .iir.niige'neiit possible; but it suited tliiir purpose to lliid fault, to jiick Haws in Mi: it lie iiad done, to bring up Hpci'ohin and d' r ]i:itcho.^i and arguments, that tlic (iovei-n- iiii III had put forward in the cauan of Caii- iulii. and I" adi'pt these argumenl^f as if they wi 1 .1 ap' ''Cubic to the case after its scttlo- j.iiMl— 111 the same wa.v .i") when it w.is liiiilcr negotiation. For what reason li.id thoy ('ono that? Was it to pro- nulii'.'i better aetllenient? U'.is it to ee- crir a treaty th.-it would be more fuvour- nl'lr t6 tiiis comitry? liy r.o mcaiia. jC vv.xa .ii«t lor tlio purpose 'if adv.aiici.iy the wilfaro ' )t the Dominion; but it waa to gain a pnlti>, lespicablc, politiealadvantage. ( lx>ud cliccra. ) [That waa the cK;ar ubjcct of the Opposition sand no ni.m could tiutlifuily K.'iy tl.at it fvaa not. Now ho couid fcirloaaly at.wd uii this Hou.tO and declare that that was .in Snaworthy and an unpatriotic counac to take. hltenewcd cheers.) The Oppiiaition had [dutiea to perform aa well aa Ministeva. 'J'hoy [were under oiiligations and reBiionsiiiilitiea iwhieh eouVl no moie be a^'oideil tbiut tiie [tosponailjilitiea of tlie (iovcrnitient. 'J'hiu [was well uneil, and nn'--c«, r^ul ^ had tin ir being. (LauguUi and cheers./ W- llo {Mr. Macdougall) liad not setii or I read aujwliere that there had been fi n /general conaoltation of tho Liber.d I party on tho aubject. iiut two or three of 1 Uiein, it aeeiued, had put their beada togo- '^ thcr in sonic back room, deeiiled to their own I Batisl'actiou that there were reasons why *hc C Treaty aho'ild not be adopted, a ml then went f; out thr jugh tlie country denouncing it as a ^ bad treaty, ondeuvonrii.;; t(. array their vo- 1 tarv:« against it, and ^ni.tiiuiiiig to find fault from that day to thia. ( Laughter and cheers. ) i. Ai.d here they had a fitting coneluainu of the seere. ilere they bad a resolution, moveil noi honestly in his judgment, orwith a view to dividu the House fairly and fiquaro- ly against tho Treaty, but to distract atten- tion by a sort of aide wind, a nondcscriiit a;uendnieiit that eouhl he interpreted in dif- ferent ways, that meant nothing when pro- posed hero, and that was simply a parliamentary mana'uvre which might after- war*!'* be turned to some account before the people in an election contest i fe did not concur in such tactics aa these. Ho was pre- pared iu his place in Parliament op'inly and fearleaaly to expreea hia opinion, and main- tain tho poaition he bail taken upon tho question, under hia responsibility aa a roprcaeutativo of the pcjple. \t a very larly moment after f'e publication of tho Treaty, he had aal down deliberately to eon- eider tho ijueBtiou, putting hia viewa in tho formal shape of a letter, w)iieh he ha 1 ad- dreaaed to hia constituents. Ho had done this because he felt tliat it was fo! them be should apeak iu thia Houao, njion a queation that BO gravely atlected their intercata; and after Gome weelis. w*ien they had time to re- Hect upon the aubject, h;. went among thnm and publicly advocated, as strongly .la it was in hia power to do, the aceojitaiieo of t Lis Treaty without reference to the cxim nee of the Ootorniuciit or party predileetiona, or •xioenoies. Hu had yet to learn that one iiiiutidn.J who bad ever given biot hia vot* found fnidt with the course he had taken or thevi"".-. :.- ■nu\ oxpressed upon thoaubjeot. Ktanding here, therefore, he felt that ho « ui speaiiing in the iianio of tho whole body of the const itucney he ivprcacnted, mil tint ho had the weijjht of their inlliience when he Haid that he intended to vote for tht meaaure which theOovernmeut hadaubir.itted. (Ixmd cheer).) They had heard a good deal (lining thi.a disinisiiion with rtspect to tlio Ken! ir clain.s, but he thought the majority of forty- thrco of the pre .'ioua evening ahoiild bavo prccludc'l that subject from further debate. The t/c;unieiit of this ease by the inquiriai Hovirnnient, it w.is said, had been very dif- ferent fi'iin the course they had ]oscd to it. Ho saw no contradic- tion iu that atatement. i ho Oovernmeut of tho Uniied .SUtes hwikcd to thodifliculiiea of tho past, whieli might occur iu the future .aiising o'lt of the liaheriea. Any politieiai. desirous of promoting tho intereata of hia country would bo anxioiia to have all matteia in dispute acttled, and ho waa aure it waa with that desire that tlio two Oovernmenti- wished to remove out of f-s way of their people the cauaea of difficulty. It C"idd l)o ijnito easily underat^oil that persoiia ongagnd in fishing along tho co.aata of the United States, not having any reaiion- eibility of tiovcrnment upon their shoulders, bIiohIiI oppose tho Treaty and the competition of Canadian lisbermen. He could only look upon tho Treaty aa iu the intereata of jieace. H hod been aaiil that the dillicnlues bad not been removed, because the Fenian ela'ms had not been settled. He found laid down in the Treaty three verv important niles of internat'onal l.aw, Mliicli tho two countries had agreed to, not only to guide tl'o aettle- mont of queations in dispute at present, but to form a rule of action for the future. He read tho rulea, which are aa follows; ^" A neutral (Joveiimicnt ia bound, tlrst, to use duo diligence to prevent tho fitting out, arm- ing, or eijuijiping, within its jurisdiction, of i;iy vessel which it haa reiuionable (ground to believe is intended to cruise or to carry on war against a iiower with which it is at peace, and also to uro liko diligence to prevent the departure from ita jur- isdiction of any vcsael intended to oruiM or cany on w«' m »bove, iu«b rmm*\ having boon specially adapted in whole or in part within such jurisdiction to w irlikeuso," feccondly, "not lo permit or suffer either belligerent to make u.«e of ita porta or w.atcra a'' t!io base of naval oiwrationa against tho other, or for tho purpose of tho renewal or augmentation of military supplies or arms, or the reel ■litincnt of men." Ijiiidly, "to ct- ereisc due dili£;encB in ita own porta and wa- ters, anil aa to all peraons within ita jurisdic- tion, III prevent aiy vio'ation of tho forego- ing obligatio'ia al:d di'ties " It had been Buid that tlicao riil'j referred solely to maritime operations, and did no'.: refer to iiivaaio:i8 by land. He thought ochenvi'ie. In tho latter case, in nddition to the munici- pal law, they had there laid downi iiidi.^tinct words tho great principle that it was the (Uity of a neutral to rcetrain ita people from levying or carrying on warlike opcratioiM with a country with whom tiicy are at peace; the pr'iiciplo on which those rnlea had bteii trmiod applied to iuvai-ions by land aa h cU as by water. Tiny had iii tho'J'rcaty of Waahr iiigton the dutiea "f ncutnili; clearly and dif- tuietly for the liist time, d.elined .iiid fonnii- latcd. 'J'liey had two of tho leading nations of tho world aoleiuuly atitting the dutiea of neutrahi. Surely it waa a great point gained for Canada to have tho United St.ite.; Gov- crmuciit thus formally committed to such oblig.atioiLi, Canuila h.aa o long frontitr exposed to incursions by ruffians of every kind, Althougli he thought that Kug- laml bad taken a gicat and serious rc- sjtiinsibility, it must be clear to the mind of every mau acquainted with the facia, that laughmd asaented to thia Treaty, because, in the lirii. place, she had posses ions in Amc'ica; becTOtc eho was rtspouaibl" for the tioveiimictit of her people in America; because he.' Hag waved ever a portion of this ceiitiuont, the froiitier of which ia cy.poaed. h'or thoae reasons, r iid for those ..'naons alone, the Government of Kiigland agreed to i.iich uii arrangeniont as haa been m.ado iu tho Treaty of NViishiugton. If LngLind had not had poSEession.s iu North America, would slio have admitted that she was guilt- less of negligence in allowing tho eaeiyie of the Alalmmai' She wouM have done nfthiu'' of the kind. No such acknowledgment coula have been wrung from any Govenimciit, Toyr or Iladical, if Knglan I had not been an American aa well as a Kurojicui jiowcr, and it w'aa for that reaaon he waa dij- jioaed to say that the impej-ial Gcvernmeut waa responsible, and after they had given eo much consideration to the interests of Can- ada it did not become any ii^ember of that Parliament lo be so sensitive. It did not be- come iiolitieal leaders to moke objectiona for more local, or party, or selliah pnrpoaos, or with the aolo object of embarrassing the Gov- ernment. He had been aasoci.itcil with some of them in the paat. Ho had discnsaed and been a party to tho settlement of many o those political ipicationa which they now claimed aa their jiecnliar triumph.', before they were known or heard e' in Canadian history, ^^'hile tho hon. gentleman who ia at present ono of tho leaders of that party, wiia at college and pursuing his pr'ifession, ho (Mr. Macdoiigall) \*a8 apauding hia lime and what little niiiiiey be had in ligliling the bat- tles of the UefHrm party. AVhat statute book could allow a single mcavuro brought ,'orward by t' ■ present '■ aders of that jiarty ? On what page of tho statute book could llicy find a single record of what they had iluiie ': What had their maatcroutaide achieved, eithcrwhile occupying a aeat in that House, or in "on- (lueting Ilia organ, tho Olohe/ 'They might iipeak of him (.\lr, Macdougall) with con- tempt. They might endeavour to underrate jiia humblo cU'orta iu the past; but he would meet them before tho people wijioi.t fear. Ho had met a whole caravan of them wlicro they had two or three thohsand honest yeo- men liatening to their expoaitions of Mh.it they had dune ami would lio. Ho \^as a humble spectator, unacknowledged iiniil they thought lie had left the xmutid, and then tho ''uff'oon of the party waa put up to attack im. Ho asked to V>e allowed to a,iy a few worils in reference to tho matters under dia- cuaaion : but the}' allowed no disjiositiou to allow him to speak, and there was a whisper- ing consultati,... aa to what pbould be itone. He asked the chairman to put the motion: hands were held up, and ui coinjiliaiicc with the call of tho meeting he w.ia Hlluwed fo apeak. After he bad explained hia position, he diacusacd the Treaty of AV'ashington, and asked if it was not expedient, on the part of those who had called the meeting, to give a hint aa to the cnin-Mo they proposed to adopt, l'>om wiiat he saw and heard, ho felt r.atis- iled that if a vote had been taken a majority would have endorsed his vio;T8, The hon, gentlemen aiiawerod, but they did not touch tho Treaty. They went back to the cKrgy reserves, and queatiour tJiirt.y years olif, That ipeacb wm reported in full by the 8hoi-t-h,'.nd reprcRontitivc of tho Gl ihf, but the caiitioua Kditor Mould not permit the public to see it, Mr. Jf.iedoiigall then re- fcn-cd to the reaull, of the elcclioiis of last yc.ir, and the defeat of the Ontario (iovfiTi- iiRiit when one-tenth of tho House waa uu- rcpriaentcil. ilu emphatically denied that tho gcnlleiniii representing themaclves to be f ucli could pii.pcrly claim to be vho leaders of the ricfo.in party. Since they had acceded to power they had, in every action, reversed tho very policy tlmy had ' vocatcd, and ha inataffccd thoir conduct n -j raihvay quca- tion, and their ^rcat dep. .uro from princi- ple iu forming a Coalition (cheers) — au.l he believed tb.at tho honest Heformers through- out tho country had lost faith iu them. The hull, member for West Durham had un- dertaken to speak aa repreaeiitiiig the Itefonn party of Ontario ; nut ho (Mr. Macdougall) iicbeved thafho was merely tho head of a faction. (Cheers.) He would not ajicak of tho provisions of tho Treaty respccliug 'lur c.iiials, as bo thought there waa not a ii'cm- bcr wl) ) did not agree in tho expediency of impivning tho e.iuala, in oiilcr to encourage the trade of the wcat. Tliat policy had been stamped rpou the banner of every adminis- tration a -ICO ho had been in Parliament. Soi'-._ pcopio objected that tho Treaty of ^Va^hingtou would throw open tho caiiala on the ar.nie terms to Americana as to our omti people, and this, tn.i, in tho face of our votea lu this Hc;ise for an expeudituro of niiilioua to lit them for tho trade of these very Ameri- cana ! (Clicera.) But we are told that to give the right of ii;ivigation is to make a base surrender. Ho c .uhl not sec that that would be any great' sunendcr of honour or dignity. Ho waa ii.atiaficd tho English Government M'ould look aft .;r lh.it. Had nut Amcrijau vcsbcia of M -ir be;u adiiittod through the canals to the lakes? and ho cotud not aeo \,!!at injury tho country could austain from tliat admission of American veSf els in time of peace ; and if mc could not protect our rivcra ajid ciuiala in the tiiuo_of M.ir, the Treaty wmdd neither liclii nor mn- d';rii8, The desire of eomo hon. gentlemen waa to rai-t-.c a captious opposition, to lind f.iult, and to act .ngiiiist the intercsta of the limpirc. Ho had no o'ljcctiou to sit doM'U a.)d consider the vieiva which prevail with many English atitcamen, that Canada had arrived at a periinl of .oaiiho...d, and that our ayatcin 'if govtjument ah'nild therefore, a.a a family arrangement, ho rceonatructed ; but 80 long a,a theprcocnt couatitution rcmaina in force, wo ; honld U'lt attempt lo aasert an in- dependence which we do not poaaeas, and can not in the iutcresta of tho Empire excfciae. The '"ipcrial Goveinment bhould bo left in ihe itids of Inipcri.ll Mmiators. (Lt)ud cheers.) On Monday, May 14th, Sir FRANCIS HINCICS aaid it jras not %vithout some reluctance that he, aa a mem- ber for tho Province of Ontiirio, rose to cou- tiiiue tho dob.ito, hecanao ho really thought that, so f.*;!', the mtuiliera from that ProWnce li.id monopoli/cd the diacuBaion ; nor ha.l he risen becauac he concurred with a rriiiiark of the hon. gentleman Mho had p.cceded him, that it was the duty of every hon. member to apeak upon thia aubject. Ho waa desirous, however, of jilacuig bt'oro tho House and tho countiy tho vioM'a lio cnter- t.iinel, and which he believed tho Govern- lucnl entertained, upon thia important quea- ti"i.. There were Ihreo pointa to which ho would address liiinsclf, theso being, — Urat, .ia to Mho were tho partiea who were res- ponsible for thia Treaty ; in tho sceoud place, ho prcpoaed to discuss the merits of tho trcci/,- itaelf; and finally, ho propoeed to conaider what was the duty o? tho House in regard to it, whether it should bo of opinion flat the 'i'rcity had ni'rita or demorita. With regard to the lirat point/ th" rcxpohaibility of tho treaty, ho contcuded that,, thr.iughout all thi, diacusaions in th--; fmpcriid Parliament, there hrd been no question whatsoever. It waa a ttiiuR quite unheanl-of to make two distinct parties rcaponsiblo for the aaino act, wdiich cir.ild ouiy li.ivo been performed by tiateU by Coinmis- ainnira acting under instructions from Her Majcsty'a .Secretary of .State. Upon thia point ho would re*'ei very briefly to the opiniona of t«'0 di»tuiguishcd iiolilcmeu who bad taken Jiart in an important deluito in the Hvuiae of Lords i ^,.»n thia Treaty; the first was the Earl of Derby, who hatt s.iid : — " 1 now pass to tho larger question of tho Treaty iisc'f, and 1 wiali to aay that I look on it aa tho Treaty of tho Government and of tbe blcemmeut exoiusivaljr, I join in iO SUPPLEMENT TO THE MAIL. all that haa been said in praiaa of the gentle- men who undertook, at the rcquebt of the noble Earl and tlie Citbiuet, that ariliioua publiu duty j but, under all the eiroum- ■taneca, bound as they wore by their inatnic- tions, I paas over the parties who were cnga^'ed in Logotiatiiig tho Treaty, and fix the resporsibihty exclusively on those who advised tbem." Again, Lord_ Cairns, formerly Lord High Chancellor of Enghiud ;- - "In the observation which I make upon this document, I would spi-ak of tho Treaty as one having been untcruil into by the (io- veniment. " This is a Treaty which, iu form, was nego- tiated thiouuu the medium of Commissioners, So far as tno British Commisdioncrs were concerned, we have tlio clearest evidence, from these protocols, that every clause of that Treaty was comniunioat^d to the Go- vernment at home, and by them assented to. (Hear, hear. ) It is, therefore, a Treaty upon •vhich the Government ilid not merely give a fuial approval, but for tho daily composi- tion of which they were virtually respon- sible." No.v, was tho House to dis- regard these statements, and hold tho first Minister of Canada responsible in the absence of all arguments to sup* port such a pretension ; for tlicro really had been nn nrgumeut ; and tho doctrines which had been laid down by tho hon. member for West Durham would have been laughed to scorn, if they had been urged iu tlio Im- peral Parliament. (Hoar, hear.) Tho fpoorh of tho hon. gentleman was tho in- genious argument of a lawyer to bolster up a bad cause. Hehadattemntedto found some sort of argument upon a minute of Council, in which it was suggesteil tliat a cuumiission should be appoiutcd7 comjioaed of one Com- missioner from England, ouc frouthc United States, and one from Canada. That was a proposition that had certainly come from Canada; but he (8ir Francis,) licsitatcd not to Eay th'at the conwnission a.eu suggested was of a totally diifer- cnt chaiactor from the Joint High Com- mission which sat at Washington. It had never been contemplated that this commission shouhl have such extensive jkiw- ors as the Washijigtou Commission. Tlie idea of a mixed commission originated in 1866 with Mr. Adams, who was then Minis- ter from tho United t:>tates, in England. In that pi-oposition, which had been adhered to throughout from beginnirg to end, it was never contemplated to gi . j tho commission any [lower except to make suggestions for the approval of the' Governments of England and the United States. In point of fact the main object of the commission wa? tc ti'y and define the headlands by laying the lines down upon tho charts. Tho commissioners were not to negotiate a nes7 treaty; they were to in- terpret the then existing treaty — the treaty of 1818, and they were to endeavour to lay down tho limitr beyond which the Amei ican fishermen m'g.it not go. After performing this duty they were to submit their recom- mendations to the Eflspective (Jovemments of Great Britain and the United .St 'tea. The latter part of the nunute of Council, which ho questioned very much whether the honourable member for West Durham had read, showed what tho idea of those who proposed the Commission was. It showed clearly that, in case of dis- putes, there was some tliird party, some in - ])artial arbiter, to whom the question was to be referred in case of difference. It was therefore quite clear that the Commission then proposed was of a totally difl'erent char- acter from that which sat at Wash- ington. (Hear, hear.) On a previous occasion he had stated that tho Firet Minister could not, as a man of honour, have acted on tho Commission entertaining the views which hon. gentlemen opposite cn- ♦ertanied. It wouhl thcp have been liis duty to have told tho Secretai-y of State that he intended to act on his resi)onsibility, and that if he happened to differ from the vicwii of the English Commissioners he should f'l- sign. If he had made such a stipulati' j, England would never have appointed hi7-i. But even assuming that England might have assented to his occupying such a nosi- tion, it would have been her duty to have advised tho Uni'ed States Government on the subject, and if such had been done the United States Goverament would at once have broken oflT tho negotiations. The way to look ft the question was to consider what tho member for West Dur- ham would have done in tho circumstances. A'ould behave taken a place on tho Commis- sion, deceiving tho Oovemment which had done him the honour to appoint liim, taking a ]>art in the negotiations, and then, at the last moment, declaring thr.t he would not sign the Treaty? Tbo tirat Minister had well •tAtcd tlutt there wm one cau in which ha would ha.o been justilied in refusing to agree to tho Treaty, namely, if tho articles relating to f.^anatla had not been left to tho decision of Canada, but this had been agreed to beforu the Commission comncuced its la- bours. As to the navigation of the St. lAawrence ho did not intend to speak at length on that point, as onu of his eoUeaguee intended to address himself to that subject; but he must say that the arguments of tho Opi.ositiun on this question were perfectly fiitilo. No mombei could say that it .vas any injury to Canada to cedo tlio navigation up to ^lou- trcal. Was tho river ii'^t open to tiiellugn of tho whole world ? It w .\3 said, constantly, t)i.at in tlic negotiations everything was con- ceded to tlio United Statc^^. The same charge had been mae published. I may add that I have not the slightest doubt of tho wisdom oi the course pursued by the Commisiion 'rs. They had 37 long sittings, and I will venture to say that if every one of the tei Commis- sioners had thought it ii)0umi}ent on them to show their patriotism and power of debate the 37 sittings could have been multiplied oy at Ica.'^t ten times while the result of the deUbera tions would have been absolutely in7. The noble Earl thinks that when the Commissioners proposed anything it was im- mediately accepted. . This, however, was by no means the cose. The Americans, in perfect good faith, made many propositions. Tosome the English Commissioners at once declined to accede ; others were refen-ed to the Im- perial Government, and the decisions or counter propositions made by the EngUsh Government we e received and considered by the AmeHcans franklyand fairly. It was not correct, therefore, to assert that every- thing had been conceded, and that no efforts were made to carry out the views of Canada." With regard to the merits of the Treaty, it \vas not, of coui-se, altogether acceptable to Canada ; but they were left to deal with it as they thought tit, and if it were necessary to conlirm what had been previously stated by the First Minister in reply to the member for Hastings, he could say most unhesitating- ly that no pressnrj of any kind had been brought to bear on the Gove nnient from England ; but that all the .advice that had been tendered had come from tiie very best friends of British conuoction in England. A great deal had been said about the coasion of territorial rights, and the compromise of honour ; as to the latter, however, there was not a gentle- man opposite who would not be prepared to concede everything if they could only get a little more. If it was a question of honour only, what differeuee was there between the cession of territorial rights to us by the United States xaA oura to them ? Tlie moment the despatch WPS received suggesting the idea of a money payment for tlie flsherios, the Govemineut at once pressed tlioiropinion that a settlement should not be made on that basis. Admitting that the Treaty had great defects, what had been the duty of the Cilovernment, and what wm the dnty oi the HotueT tor tho same reasons that inlluenced the Govern- ment should have the same influence with the House. He would have been glad if the Uslicry articles had been excluded, and if, when tho Imperial Govemnwit had the opjiortimity, they had decided to withdraw from all further negotiations respecting the fisheries. But tho circumstances were ma- terially changed when the Imperial Govern- ment took the responsibility of confinning the Treaty. It was certainly not a little surprising that the moat violent oppoaitinu :i^ainst tho Trcity proceeded from those h ii-t interested in it. To show how highly intelligent and impartial observers at a di,i- tance viewed tho (piestion. ,hew>mld cite tlie remarks of tho Earl of Derby in the debate already referred to—" Upper aud lyower Canada appear to liiive made what is probab- ly not a bad bargain, but I am afraid what- ever .-ulvautagcs may ariso out of it there will be a good deal of soreness aud bitter feeling left iu the minds of tho people of the Maritime Provinces, who, there is no denying, have been to a certain extent thrown over." Tho idea in England was, that the only objeotions to the Treat/ would bo made from the Maritime Frovincoa, but how different has b.^on tho result. In Que- bec he had no doubt tho opposition would not be formidable. He could not doubt that the new members I'r Cliateauguay .and Hochelaga would support the Treaty. But little did Karl Derby imagine tho howl that would proceed from the Grits of Ontario under tho inilucnco of the dictation of the Ohhe nowapaper, which was so powerful that hon. gentlemen opposite dared not disobey it. lie would not have referred to this mat- tor again but that the hon. members for Lambton and West Durham had slated that they hnd declared their views in aiiticipatiou of that newspaper. Let any one take up the files of tho Olohe, and they wou'.'l see how viilcntly the Treaty w.i8 denounced as early as tho I Itli Ma; before cither of these hon, gentlemenhadspokenonthc subject, and how these hon. gentlen.en bad i lUowcd suit, and obeyed instmctiuna received .rom their master. Mr. MACKENZIE-You followed suit on the 28th .luly. Sir FRiVSrCIS HINCKS said tho remark just reminded him of something ho desired to say. It bad been stated more than once from the other side of the House that tho Government ha»l followed suit in their dea- patch of July 28th. He read an extractfrom that despatch, stating that tho Treaty of 1S54 had met with the approbation of C,\'i- ada ; whereas the rishery articles of tiio pre- sent Treaty were adopted against the advice of the Canadian Government, How could it be said that tho Government followed suit, when they so distinctly protpsted at tho very time that the Treaty was under consideration .ind before it had been signeil ? When, however, tho Imperial (lovernmeiit agreed to tho Treaty, a pressure was brought to liear on them, and had they refused to perform their' parthowawkward would have been their posi- tion towards both England and tho United States. Tho .'rrangement was considered by all parties in England to be a fair and rea- sonable one ; anil, as had been truly said by the First Minister, if Canada hail to make a sacrifice, had not England to do so also, and if Canada refused to ratify the Treaty she would be placed in a very disagreeahlo posi- tion towai'ds England. It must bo l>oruo iu mind that, before tho negotiation, the mat- ter of the protection of the fisheries was iu a very unsatisfactory position, and that for some years previously dillicnlties had arisen as to the amount of protection nccessory, while consti-.nt danger was to be apprehended from collisions with Anieri> nn fishermen. The question of the fisheries was theprineipal cause of the reference to the High Commis- sion. Earl Granville ui stating the grounds of his anxiety as to the state of our relations with tho United States, observed:— "There was also the uuestion (in my opinion the most urgent of all) of the American fisheries, of which the noble Earl has gi'-eii some de- scription. With regard to this ai bioet, there were not only queationa between the United States and Canada, but it raised some difii- culties between ourselves and Canada as to the amount of police acr^-ice we were to do for them in addition to and perfectly sepa- rate and independent from the obligation to defend the Dominion if it was attacked from without." He (Sir Francia Uincka) would now refer to tho advice given to Canada by a nobleman who was pre-eminently the friend of th'> aubsiating c^imcxion between Great Britain and''a!iadB; one who stood very high in the estimation of all who hail the high honour and privilege of his acquaintance. Ho referred to the Earl of Carnarvon, for- merly Secretary of State 'or tho Colonies, aud til referring to Lord CarnarTon'i apeeob h« would obM^a tiut His Xnwdihip had not concealed his objcctious to the Treaty, oitlier from an Imperial or a Colonial view. Ho criticized it with the greatest severity, but after doing so ho added; — On the other hand, I should feci, as a Cana- dian, that this is essentially an Imperial questiou in all its bearing, aud I should feel, above all, that Canada is a part of the Em- pire, having east in her lot for good or ill when the eTCat Confederation of the Domin- ion was accomplished, Canada then assumed lier place in the Empire of this country, pre- pared not only to fulfil her dutiea and re- sponsibilities, but to make sacrifices if uuch were necessary. I know there are those who prophesied that Canada was incapabhj of bearing the slightcststrain on herin.Jterial interests, but I do not agree with tiiose pro- jiheoiea. They have, 1 think, been grovious- ly disappouited. No doubt this fishery question will press hardly uu some of the maritime provinces. But, on the other hand, I have that 'lonfideuce in tho loyalty of Nova Scotia and Now Brunswick, that, looking at this as an Imperial question, even if it involves sacrifices, they will make them cheerfully for tho sake of tlio lilmpire. How- evei low national feeling may have ebbed in this country, I believe it swells very hi^h in Csnada. I beUeve that there is a far higher estimate of public duty in Canada than in this country. I therefore trust that Canada, in tho wise and judicious exercise of the power she oujoys, will not tako it on her to w'thhold her consent. She has now an op- portunity for showing great maananunit,, , and also groat pulitical'.i'isdoni, 'These mea- sures are no'', to be weighed by mere appear- ances at the moment, or tested or estimated by ininiediate results. There are reasons which should induce the Dominion of Canada, and every part of the maritime provinces, as well as the western districts, to fuel that at some future da.v great advantages may arise from some of the provisions of tho Treaty. The fishery question has been a source of great offence and irritation to Canada, and there are other qucstio.is. I have no apprehension whatever as to tho future if these questions are met by an united Empire, and in the spirit of moderation, good lense, and kindly feeling on all sides. The only fear I have u that England and Canada may meet those difficulties separate and sm^ile banded, and my one great hope, wish, ana earnest desire is tliat Canada may now act in the spirit of an integral part of this t-'eat United j<.dapire. Ho (Sir Francis Hincks) believed that the great majority of this House and of the peo- ])lo in every section of the Domuiion would re. spend to the sentiments expressed by the Ear o( Carnarvon on their behalf. He was sorry tohoartheremarkaof the honourable member forSherbrookethoothernight, althoughhowas gratified at the conclusion he had arrived at —to support the Treaty. But he ov.Tied he could not understand how he had arrived at that conclusion, and he referred to it be. cause ho did not ilesire that the speech of ' that hon. gentleman should be considered in any wpy as representing the views of the Government. Ho (Sir A. Gait) adnitted that the adoiition of his favourite scheme of inde- pendence would be a s.acrifice, and ho thank- eel hiin for that admission. :jat when he proceeded to urge that for the sake of Eng- land we ought to make that sacrifice, he (Su' F. Hincks) must contend that wo had not been called upon to make it. He denied most emphatically that public opinion in England was in favour of separation. The wiseat ind lieet statesmen iu England and the masses of the people were iu favour of colonial connection. (Hear, hear.) ' Mr. MACKENZIE— That is not what the Secretary of iState for the Provinces says. Sir FRANCIS HINCK8-He (Mr: Howe) had referred ti tho authorities that had in- duced him to state what he did ; and even if it wore true that he held those opinions — and he differed from him (Sir Francis) oi that point — tho hon. gentlemen opposite were quite welcome to tli , fact that they did so (tiffer. He firmly beliovei? that the feeling in favour of severing the connection did not exist in England to any great extent. He would make one or two further remarks 'vith reference to the Fenian claims. He contended that we had a right to expect raparatiou from England, after she had failed to procure it for us from tho United States, He had contend'jil, on a former occasion, that the correspondenoo relating tc the formation of the Commission fairly included the Fenian claims as one of the subjects to be dealt with. Sir Francis Hincks here read portions of his corrospondencc iu support of his piwitioa The Ministe.' of Justice had always thought that there wis some doubt, and that there' was something to be said on the American side of tho queation. However, when England consented to withdraw the Fenian clauus, she Msnmed the reeponiibility o( tk m, althoogh in a vary goardad in«a»«r< They^ to pay Hinckl of opiil meml>f citofrq V ■ tho ;l;,"TheJ i|tween| ^ claim' ' grenl ■ ' any H M for = 1 of the I :% was '% did nl «! yards I :f ^ remaiij ■ claim 1 ifi- merelj yf\ losses! I throiiT i( I slioiil "^^ tremcl 4 mone)| if we , princil t lor suil the FJ Nowil been rl J have 11 ...^ Eiiglal .1^ SUOPFLEMENT TO THE MAIL. 11 ioii.i to tlie Treaty, oitJier 01' a t'oloiiial view. He till' greatest Bovcrity, so lie ad Jed:— should feci, OS a t'ana- essentially an Imperial niijjH, oudlsbouldfeel, la la a part of the Era- ler lot for good or ill adoration of tbeDomiu- . Canada then assi'med ire of this country, pre- Itil her duties and re- make sacrifieea if „uch ;now there are those Canada was ineapablo (tstraiu on herm_terial ' afiiTo with tnoso pro- I think, been grevioua- • doubt this fljheiy hardly uu some of e». But, on the other idence in the loyalty few Brunswick, that, ni»)Ofial (question, even - they will make them 'fthoKmpire. How- ng may have ebbed in it swells very high in t there is a far higher ' in Canada than in ore trust that Canada, ious exercise of the not toko it on her to She has n-^w an p >. great magnaniimt_,, 'yiadoui. Those mea- glied by mere appear- tested or estimated by ere are reasons which inion of Canada, and me provinces, as well to feel that at some tagcs may arise from )f the Treaty. The n a source of great ) Canada, and there liaye no apprehension •u if these questions Empire, and in the jd icnse, and kindly e only fear I havei da may meet those sinale handed, and , and earnest desire act in the spirit of feat United iaapire, !) believed that the mae and of the peo- ! Dominion would re. sxpressed bythe Ear Bhalf. He wao sorry ihonourablo member ight, although he was n he had arrived at But he o^.-ued he iv ho had arrived at referred to it be. hat the speech of lid be considered in the views of the Gait) adnitted that rite scheme of indo- ifice, and he thank- on. liut when he )r the sake of Eng- '.•', lat sacritice, he (Stt d that we had not ko it. He denied ^ public opinion in 5 separation. The i 1 in England and I were in favour of ir, hear.) ' lat is not what the Provinces says. i-He (Mr: Howe) iritics that had in- e did i and even if lose opinions — and Francis) oi that in opposite were that they did ho that the feeling in mnection \liii not reat extent. He ther remarks with ns. He contended expect reparation I failef>Hitinn i always thought t, and that there' n t)ie American However, when Iraw the Fenian e responaibility giurdMl ,ii They had never said that they were prepared to pay all tlieae claims. He (Sir Francis Hincks) had carefully watched tbeexprcssions of opinion on tliis subject from the various members "f the (ioverniiient cud he would citoliom the speech of tno Earl of Kimberley the views of Her Majesty's Oovernmont. "There " «, moreover, this difference be- tween ii:" Peiiiau claims and the /l/00,000 ; but oven it we only get £2,500,000 instecd of four million, the gain would still be !??.i 5,000 per annum. He relied with entire conlidencc on tlicse calculations. Ho would, in concla- sion, express hi' earnest hone that in the in- terasts of peace with the United States and of good fceUng with England, the course re- commended by the Govenimont would meet their approval. M.. J. H. CAMERON desired to say a few words in reference to tho remarks of the Secretary of State for the Provinces, with regard to his hon. friend the member for Wast Durham, the other night. He wished to do so because he dia not concur in those remarks. lie did not think it judicious oa tho pa.-t of any member of tho House, and especially of one holding the office of a -Min- ister of the Crown, to endeavour to draw il- lustrationc from the iir'>feasion or occupation of any gentleman who happened to hold a seat on the floor of that House; .■uid as a member of the same profession as his hon. friend from West Durham, ho thought tho remarks should not have been made. While he (Mr. Cameron) was a supporter of the tiov- erament, he did not desire to be a sup- porter of statements of tli.it character, ami fie thought it duo to tho hon. gentleman who was botli .vn ornament and an honour to the i«r to give his own opinion in reference to expressions of that kind. With rcgnid to tho Treaty itself, before entering into discussiion on its various points, he might bo allowed to say a I3W words ubout one upon whom the eyes of all Canada were lixcd, in whom all Canada had tho preatest posailile interest, and iu whom, ho veutureSir Johu) had corrupted iiimself; no whisper, no inginua- tioii, I'.o liii.t of personal gain everwent forth against him. Whilst other political men were making their fortunes, no ono ever felt otherwise than that that man was poor, beeauBO he never allowed his political or parliamentary influence to bo used in oraer that he nyglit in the slightest degree make pecuniary capital of his position . Did not they all feel that one reason why his honourable frionds opposite had raged so furiously against him, haeriiim liniieno, that there could bo no separate branching out from the Imperial Govenuucnt of tho Colonial relation : that there eould bo no statement of tho Colonial relation witiiout the consent of the other eontracling party; because, if there were, there would bo two contracting parties, as regarded one portion of tho Treaty, aud only one contracting party as regarded tho other portion. Ho thought the argument waa perfectly clear that the Commissioners coulJ only act upon the instruction of tho Imperial Government, oven if tlioir powers were of the most plenary character. It was also clear that, no matter what might have once been the doubt upon the subject, a treaty waa not bind- ing upon tho countries negotiating it until it -.ras ratified. There never was a case before like this. The whole of history might be searched, and no case could be found in which there was a Colonial repre- sentative on an Imperial commission, that re- presentative being a Minister of the Crown m a Colony where rights wore claimed ines- peotivo of the Imperial power. From the earliest history of diplomacy the only in- flvanco at all approaching it, that xas in any respect similar, was the Ashburton Treaty, in 1842, when tho States of Maine and Massachusetts claimed that tho absolute pro- prietory rights of one, and parts of the sovereign rights of tlin otlier, eould not be aliiicated ^vithout their consent. But tho Secretary of State had not sent inde- pendent Commiasionors to negotiate o trcity, nor did they claim to do so. AL tlicy claimed was that by the funda- mental law of the United States no portion of the territory of any State in the Union could bo taken away without the concent of that State; and, that whatever Great Britain and the United St,%te3 might agree to, could not bo finally consummated without their couseut. Tho rule was perfectly clear that Commissioners appointed tonegotiateaTreaty were exactly on the footing of plenipoten- tiaries. They were bound to act on instruc- tions, and if they disregartied them they were liable to havo their acts repudiated and thcinselves disgraced. Upon this point he read from LeMartens to the effect that a plenipotentiary was only au agent of tho Government he represented ; that he could neither direct, noi act, nor agree upon anything without the authority of his Gov- ernment ; and tliat if he did his Government waa at liberty to repudiate his acts, even although ho had full power. The same writer, ono of tho best upon diplomacy whoso every word was entitled to considera- tion, r ml wl; ose reputation was not only European but worhl-wido, referred also to tho position of iliplomatic agents. Ho (Mr. Cameron) road from tho original French, amid appHuso from the Que- bec members,, to the effect that no agent appointed by a Government had a right to refuso to act after ho had ac- cepted his commission, unlcas tho Govern- ment refuup-'. to give him instructiona iu a c.-'ao in whici- ho did not see his way clearly, or '.inless the Oovernmont gave him instruc- tions to net contrary to his honou-- and patriotism. It had been said that the First Mi'iiHtor might have witbdiawn from tli« Coinmissiun; but under the auchority he liiid quoted tho only ground ho eould havo taken as an agent of tho Imperial Government, was tc have attaehed his signature to the Treaty,. if ho had been so instructed. Hien if iii« inatructiooi req'iired liim to act con- trary to tJie feelings of his counti-y, he was bound to resign lis position as a minister. Unless, therefore, his hon. friend the mem- ber for West Durham could show that tho first minister had e..crificed his honour and patriotism ho eould not bo regarded an having tho power to v'thdraw from tho (ommissiou. (Hear, hoar.) This was tho first case where a Miniater of tho Crown in a colony had been aske.l or rcouired to deal with Imperial interests. It was true that at the time of tho revolutionary war Hear}' Oswald, a gentleman ongr.ged in tho Canadian tnule, had been appointed a Elcnipotentiary to negotiate tennfi of peace; ut Mr. Oswald waa not a colonist in tho ordinary sense of terms; nor was he a mem- ber of the Colonial Govermnent. There be- ing no case exactly like thiy, the general Srinciplua of intcriiatiiuial law, which i,uided iplomiicy, must ajiply. If anytlring more wcro required, it would be found in the action of the Ilmise itself. On botli sides of the House last session it Ind been stated that the ( 'ominisaioner should not bo fettered by instructions, and that ho should be left entirely free and iintramniolled in his aetimis. The House hod taken this course for the best of reasons; because it could give no instruction which ciiild interfere with tho iuatriK'tion of the ImporiaKjovernmcnt, and because the power likely to be exercised over him by the Imperi.il Government was a powerwhiclihowould be willing, and was able to chock, by requiring tliat tho Imperial Act or Treaty should be submitted for the appro- val of the House. That had beeu done, and these articlesof the Treaty couldnot Ijo legal- ly carried into ofi'ect until thoy were pro- nounced upon by tho Parliament of Canada, ^ow what were tho acta tho 11)1130 was called upon to consider? Wluit wo.e the acts the acceptance of whicli it was said would be sacrillcing the interests of this country? They were acts connected with the fisheries What waa the history of those fisliories? 1 f they looked inti it thoy found th.it tho United States had rights iu thom from 1783 to 1318. Thoso rights were abrogated by the war of 1812, but were alteretl under tl" Treaty of 1818, and continued so altered t'-ll 1854, when increased facilities were given to Amer- ican fisherman under the Reciprocity Treaty. That Treaty expired iu 1860, but since then the right of Americana to re- sort to our waters had been recognized by the licensing system, and by the iiermission that was accorded to them of purchasing fiali and trmsferring from one set of vessels to another for transport to American ports. Since the Ainerieans had resorted there our fishery traile had increased over and over again. (Hear, hear.) Tho facts declared distinctly, clearly, emphatically, and with- out the possioility of denial, that since then tho incroaie in the tr,vlc on the part of our colonies, hail been greater than over before. (Hear, hear.) Theio was, therefore, noth- ing, as far as the fisheries were conctmed, which showed that we had lost ; there was .nothing that showed against us and favourably to the United States. If it was favourable to them why should the United States fishermen retiuiro a bounty. (Hear, hoar.) But tlioy havo not got it, and they arc not likely to net it ; arl until the bounty is granted the argument can liave no effect; but in the meantime wo have tho fislermen of the United States, who, I suppose, know their own interests q'litc as well as either the member for West Durham or Lambton can do, saying that their rights are interfered with, and that they are suffering the degra- dation and humiliation which wo are told is cost on Canada; and that they are crying out for a boun";y, while our lithermen are per- fectly aatisfiiid. One fact is said to bo worth a thoiisand arguments, and these aro facts. He eould not speak of tho feeling of the Maritime Provinces except from the tono of their press, and tho expressed opinions on tho subject; but he bi.'lioved the goueral feeliug down there was in accordance with tlio \ncwa exprcaHod by tho Governments of Prinoo Edw.nrd Island and Newfoundland ; ond that tho views expressed in the English House (if Lords were entirely mistaken ; and that in reality the Maritiinu Provinces woro in favour of tho Treaty. This reciprocity ill fiah and trade had existcil before, it ex- isted from 1854 to 18GI! ; but n( w, liecauso we had not so wi lo a range of commodi ties free wo ha' in addition a money grant. It was said t.iat M far as lengli of time was concerned, tho United t'tates hid not h.id reciprocity in Dshing for a longer tim<< than they had been deprived uf it, and ".a\t there was nothing to •how th.at tho losses which it waa thought the Maritime Provinces would sustain had not been 8UBtaincFT_,KMT]NT TO THE MAIL. i wliidi was as oxunustiro from liia )ioint o( > i.!W as wan the npiHtcli of tlio Miiiistcr of Justice fioin our point of view, that ttio fact of a bounty liciiiy allowed i)y the I'nitcil Klates to their lisheniieii was soiiic- tliiiig that sliould ha\'o hucu [irovitled ftijiinst ill the Treaty ; while in tlia same hreath ho toM us that the Treaty was favour- ahleto thciH, ami that a money grant was dis- liouourahletous. Let them examine thntfor a uiomont. ^\'a8 it dishonourable to exehango one article or connnodity for another! 'I'hey )iad a treaty from 1854 to 1800, and no one ihtiughu it dishonourable to have tlic pro- ilui.ts of oi\r Lviuiitry introduced into iho I'uited States duty free. Suiiijosiiig that at tliat time, there uad been a oalanee of com- modities to come from them to ns, would any one have thought it dialionourablo if we had provided for that balance by a money arrangement 1 /.iid now we say that, as tho rights we give to them are grei;ter than tho ri.is to bo within tho mem- ory of men in the House. The Treaty of 1S4"J, by Lord ^Vshbiirtou, was one of tho strongest instances on record of tho cession of territorial rights for money, and also of the cession of other righw similar to tho Feni.™ claims for monoy. Uy tho Treaty of *.!hent it was determined that the north- oostcrii hoouuciry of tiio United tStatcs should he settled liy coimnisoions, and if the com- missions should not agree, it w.as to be re- ferred to a friendly power to decide. Sur- veys were inaeing carried on. Then /hen tho boundary could not bo agreed upon, tho question was referred to the King of the Netherlands, who, supiosing all he had to do was to do what was right, did not give tho Americans their line, and did not give' the Knglish their line, but i-an a lino between the two. Jinglaud was (|nite willing to taka that lino, but the United States held tliat the Kiitg of t!ie Netherlands had only to decide v.hioh of the two lines was e.^rrect, and hail no power to decide on a third lino, ami they ie]mili,..cd the award; but the treaty still stood, and a new convention was made, and iiniler the m \v arrangement fjoray that by t^jreemeut witli fueii- own ccuu- try, but they made a treaty witli n forcigit power to pay it: and when tho troaty wa» ratitioil. Lord Ashbnrlon wrote to tho Secre- tary of State of the Uniteil Stntc^-.aml aahlin effect — " If yiui do not pay tho money Great Mritain nmst g > to war with you tocomncl you to ))»y your own country;" and tho United States Seci otary of .State wrote to \ah'u Ash- burton declaring that the Unitc a ])r(;vi3ion, which, alono and iude- peudmt of anythingolse, ought to induceany mnn who had a dount about it to V()te for the Treaty. These lights which it was said were gi\ on up, contrary to tho natitmal hon- our, and which are degrading and huiniliai- ing, wcro given up for how loug? For ton years; anilt\voyearB .tftcrwards. ThoGovom- ment had showed their wisdom in getting tho Imperial Government to deohare before- hand tlie exact terms on 'I'hieli tho Treaty should end. Twelve years wore nothing in tho life of a man. What were they in tho life of a nation ? Twelve years ago some of too mem''ers of the House were boys ; they wore now in the strength c:* manhood ;' and twelve year,! henco thoy would still nave tho strength and vigour of maidiood about them, and they would boo the Treaty abrogated if it turned out to be against our interests, and they would see that it was not abrog.iteil if it turned out to bo in accorilance witli our interests; and in thomcantimothey would liavo all its many henelits. Hcdidnot careahout tho Government de-spttch of tho 28th July, or 20tli January, or anything of that sort. H'j had met tho First ^linister immediately niter bis return from Washi' gton, and told him that ho believed the Treaty to i^'" a good one, and in tho in- terests of the Umpire ; and he was ready to Bland by it, (cheers) and he hail never changed his ini'id, but WM still ready to stand by it, and he did no^ hesitate to declare that in tho position which England occupiovi8e one. That Treaty Wiia only for a Umo,aml not for permanency ; and, being so, it was mio which members c mid vote lor, and for which the |ieopl« of the country would not visit them with Uieirilispleasuro. There waaa very ^eat deal to i)0 s.aid with regaril to the free navig,ation of tho St. Lawrence, and tho question of Fenian claims. He did not in- tend, when ho began, to keep tho Ilouso so long, and ho did not deoire in any way what- ever to weary them, *{cries of " go on,'') bnt ho desired to say one or two woro acknowledged. Ho referred to Vattd's Law of Nations, Wheaton, I'hilliniore, and others, in support of the statements 'he had made, and if the rtises which ho had cited wcro satisiaetory to tho minds of those who had heartl him, thou ''<> ''"'^ made out the ease that, whether the Goni- niissioners of Engl- id knew of tho trcatits between Russia of 182.'), and tho renewal of IS.")!) — hy which British vessels had tho right to r.avigate tho rivers iu Alaska — or not, thoss rights were given up when Alaska was annexed to tho United States ; and but for the Treaty of Washington, wo shouhl not bavo their free navigation. AVith rcga'dtotho St. Lawrence, wo wore U>ld that Lnkc Michi- gan W.IS a tribntary of it.^: Was not tho Ottawa a tributary M the St. 1 .awrenco, and if we h.ad tho right to navi;.;ato Lake ^Michigan, on tliat ground, would not the Aniericana have the right to navigate tho Ottawa V Lake Michigan was an iiUand sea sea surrounded by the territory of tho United States, and wo hod no more right to navig.ite it than the; had to navig.ate the Ottawa, which was uiii[uosti(ma1)ly a tributary of tho St. La\vronco. This hike would not oven Llvo been an open water to the citizens of the United States generally had not a pro- vision beonmaile expressly for it. By the con- stitution of the United States all tho great lakes aud rivers of tho nation are freo for tho navigation ;ttvr in tlio been tli.it, in return lor 1 St. Liiv.'i'enco for over, t a Bilnilai' liuht to tlio Michigan. Tint what loDo by giving tho fi'co t. I^awienco ? Had wo ohipa of any country 'hco anil Montreal in were glad to seo tboao ml it « as greatly to ilic iii'ii that it should Ik^ ulaimcd that they bal iintural right, inde- L'caty, and that whi.^h I'iifJu wo allow them a^ cixnco to tho Fenian ly luuntinncd a ouriou* ■isiai with reference Maine and the United \s another case of very apjioned Jao between :d Svtttub, and in which ) war with the United 'iittiilur that in any par- honour .vas eullicd. lepondence torrainated, rica of pcaco were I claimed that th** diould nioke reparation le who, following fte etoniiinod to icavc the whose projierty bail e United .States agreed several ytatcH oi tho Id ic3toro the property tiu had fought against mined true to their li tliat they wouhl do ;o obtain from tho iiition of tbati>rinciplo. icvcd tlitjy would ourry no State of the Union eption of lV-nn.sylvania, il to tho IVnn family b'! Ih'iiiub Uovcniineut -I'liglaad H.1W that the ot apparently enforce Uowcdtho matter to go, coninitHsioncrH of en- hertielf and paid tho d declared herself our claims. The same with us with n claims. Our claim? »y (Ircat Britain, and iloubt, WM that unad- t duo consideration, gland had telegraphed United .States tbuthis Rising ll:o last Feniau lieir wannest thanks, that that wouM be ought a reconsidera- lie \A'ould rather pay an h'low tbcni again United States; but leaof international law n at ony future time ler so to do. We lion, inomber for glanil should give up uld she not bo prc- I shedidwhen shcsent and when slicdcmand- utragca committed by li.ivo wo forgotten lis ia the troubles of >tteu the case of tho land was ready to do stood by us th-.ii, and lis now ? We should '■ required to make a Wo could not do we remained a por- \\'e hiul duties rra, and sacrilicea to )iot and would not ) took upon ourselves tionality. He hoped t come iluii'ig his life li.riiig thu V:U! of his even then. (Ijoud reat iiatianal chaugoa fcars, where was .Uy but to that great • ho s,'.me speech and inlliiropo? (ionnany I'uasKi always seek- l.ad been striving to make satellites of rum o wil'i its sue- )in (.'harlomagne to n the dust with the eck. Austria was titioned, Qrooce in 1 in continued revo- iwcr of tho Papacy 'Id entangling Eu- lad cauao Ipnd from ocean to ocean, the powor of m' carrying our ships Into every and then let it bo saiject under consider- in to he of great iinportane;) lai'.l one in ence to which a good de.. I of misappre- lion seemed to rest, and as it wme a Kub- J upon which he could, perhaps throw be light, bo felt that he ought nut to bo ent with a silent vote. No one regretted 1 than he did that this Treaty was not ! genenal in its provisions. He wished brgi itly as any oiio that it was more liko I rec nt Ileciprocity Treaty, which proved dva itageous to tho United States as 1 as to these provinces; but as this could [bo obtained, and be believed was not linable, be was in lavour of accepting I Treaty even as it was, and the fo 'towing 1 some of his reasons; they were not .ely theoretical, but the rcbult of TS of practical experienco and careful «rvatiou. (Hear, hear.) In the sprin" cb year son'.e 40 or !>0 vessels resorted be Magdaleu Islands for herring, and ho I known tho number to be greater. 1 hcso isela carried an average of itOO ban-els " J so that the quantity taken was gener- / in tho neighbourhood of 50,000 barrels, ring tho cx'jtcnce of tho Reciprocity aty no Uniteil States vessels went after We liah. All tho vessels engaged in that «ry belonged to some one of the provinces ■ forming this Dominion. Since tho ab- lution of tho Treaty ami the imposition of J duty of a dollar per barrel by the United htes, the case had become entirely changed, isels still went there, but they were Ifirly all Amcri'jan, Now, umler this aty wo wouhl )^'ctt|hat important brauch Eirado l„ack again. ' The lower province.'", pva, Scotia in particular, bad a largo bor- trado with Newfoundland. \ csiela nt there with salt and other su^jplies, ami bught back cargoes of herring in bulk. pToyinent was thus given to tho cooper riabouror in preparing these lish for cx- aiid as tho business wivs i)ro. would go into tho pockets of tho own- nd orows of the vcHsoln, instead of into (United Stattia Xnasury, and cases of thia kind occurred almost every day. The same reason applied to tho macliercl fishery, but with lit d greater force, the duty biMiig two dollars per barrel. There was another fca- tuiu connected v.ith this fishery, which ought to have a gooil deal of weight with this House in favour of the Treaty. Ameri- can vessels following the cod and mackerel fisheries wtre manned in great part by natives of some part of this Dominion. Tho chief cause of this w.aa that, as the hands lishcd on shares, viz., one-half of what they caught, tboao employed on board of United States vr,'S.iels got tl.elrs in frco of duty, whilst the melt employcl in the vessels of the Dominion had to ]>ay the iluty on theirs. A hand catching tweiity-livo barrels of nmcl'erel to hi>i siiarc on hoard of a United iStatcs vessel would rocei\'o KtO more than iio would receive fv..' theeame (piantity taken in Olio of our own veauels. A conscqtienco of tiiis was that tho best men went on board tho American vessels, and our vessels had to put up with tho letiS capable. Indeed, should the present state of things continue much longer, our people woulil 1)0 compelled to givo up tho hook and lino lisliing altogether, for it was impossible that they conhl continuo to com- pete against the duty and their other disad- vantages. (Hear, bear. ) During the exist- eiico of tho Ueciprocity Treaty tlio number of vessels following the hook and line mack- erel (Isbery b.ad inci-eased to about sixty in tho eounly of Ijiiiienburg abuic. Since tho torniination of tho Treaty the number liatl been griulu.iUy falling oil, until during last sesiiiou no more than halt a dozen vessels on- gaged in that buaincss, and he believed that, should this Treaty not be ratilicil, there would not bo a single vessel littcil out in that county for tho mackerel ll.shery tho ap- I'roaehing season. (Hear, ■ bear. ) Ho had been assured by vessel owners in Slavro au l!ouclio, an ( nterprising settlement at tho eastern end of the county of Antigonish, and also by those on the western side of the .Strait of Uauso, in tho county of (Jiiysboro, from both of which places tho mackerel and herring lislieries liatl been extensively prosecuted, thai tho [busi- ness will uot uioro tliau p.ay expenses, and that, unless something was dono to re- lievo thci fish from the prcacnt duty, they W'uM be obliged to abandon the buainesa altogether. This neotl create no aiirpriso when it is considered that at tho present value of irnckcral and he; rings tho duty is fully equal to lilty per cent. O'.vin^ to the advantages o(t'cre(l by tho American vessels over our provincial vessels eng.agetl in fishing, uot only were our best men induced to give their skill to tho Auier- i -aits in fishing, nut in many cases they re- mained away, and titer industry was lost to the provinces. They went to the States in t!te vessel tho last trip in order to get .settled up for the season's work ; and gen- erally remained there to^nan tho fishing and other vessels of the llepublio. W by, a very largo proportion of tho inhabit.ants of Gloucester and other tishiug towns of Mas- sacliujotta and Maine were nativoa of some of tho provinces of this Domiuion. Now with this Treaty tho inducements to give »i preference to American vessels would uo re- m.ived, and our own vessels would be able to select good hands who would remain at homo, tho temptation to omigrato as bo had just explaineil being remove:' Ho had heard it said that tho consumer pai'l tho duty. Now whilst this might be the cas-' with some articles, it was not so with tho article of our fish. Ill our case in Ibis business on* tishoi- incn lislted side by side with their American riv.'tl.H, both c.arrying tlio proceeds of their catcli to tho same market, where our men had to contend against tho frco fish of tho American tishei'mon. Lut him illustrato this. An American ami a provincial vessel took I'KK) barrels of mackerel each, both vos- aels were confined to the same market where they sold at tho sane price. Ono had to ]>ay a duty of !5 to 18(15, during the existence of tho Ilecipro- city Treaty, hail iuueased from 81,U40,- 127 to $3,470,401, and was it not f;iir to as- sume that a proportionate inereaso woiiM take place under the W.aahiiigtoii Treaty ? Ho was told that tho rctnt;,al of this Treaty would force the United States to allow our .'oal and lumber to go into their markets entirely free of duty. Ho believeil tho con- trary would be the result. This ♦ushory question had been a great causo of ill-feeliiig on the part of tUo United States tow.ards us, at.'d this being settled satisfactorily, concei- sio.ts would be suro to be made by them, in the feelings of international courtesy and goodwill that WBiu .suro to arise from tho prompt ami cordial ratification of the 'Treaty. Wo would have a bettor gua-.autco for an early reduction of tliose duties, and the ailoption of a more liberal policy towarda the United States by our neighbours in commercial matters generally, tli.au we could possibly have by assuming an attitude of hoatility i;owards tiier.., or l>y acting in ittoh n way as to perpetuate that feeling of dislike in which their hoitilelogislatioii origi- nated a few years ago. 'J'hote opposed to tho Treaty seiaued to set great value upon what wo were asked by it to aurrender. "Dli,' laid they, " why should wo give up our >'aliiabic liahoriea, inch important privilegea, and for so aniall a consideration?" Iladthoa.i who talked in this way studied the case ? Ue believed they hail uot, elso they would form a dilli rent opiuion. That our llaheries were valuable he waa well aware. Their value under favourable conditions oould uot bo over-estimated ; but that value would be great or aniail juiit in proportion to the mar- kets we po^i8C3tied. liy thia Treaty vc sur- reiidercil very little and gained in many ways ; for, in oilditiou to our own fishing groumls, which wo still retained, «e had the privilege, if wo ebooso to avail our- selves of it, of going into United .*^tate» waters to fish, and ^"ould gain a free market, whicli would have tho oCuict of increasing tho^ value ofourowiifi.dicrios to auiost important extent. Newfouiiilland and Prince Ldward Island liad given strong iiulieatioua that they would ratify this 'J'reaty ; and Americana having free acecaa to tho liahing grounds of the for- uii r, they v;ould be quite independent of na in tho herring and cod fisheries. Prince Ed- ward Island's ratifying it would givo thein aceesa to the inackerel lishery oi that Island ; and with the right w hieli they now pobscase 1, under the Treaty of 1813. to take all kinds of tisli when and where they pleased at the Magdaleu '.slaudd — and the Isl.auds comprise, both for herring anil mackerel, about the best fishing ground of the Dominion — the Americans nee.' lo very littlo for any privileges that light have the |K)Wor to witlibold lioiu i:ieni which would am- ount to but a few miles of an inshore mackerel fishery ; in return for which tho markets rf the entire United States were tliiotvii to us free for all the fisli and products of the tisbcries of the whole Do- minion. But ho might be answered, "If we would have so bttio to protect, why urge tho great dilRculty and cost of protect- ing it ?" The reply was that most of the harbours on tho entire line of coast that ho had mentioned, were visited by United .States" vessels for the puri^oso of obtaining supplies of bait, 'CO, &c., for the deep sea and otln r fisheries, and if wo wished to have tho ]um- tection efloctual wo would prevent this. He might, however, say that ho had always been opposed to United States vessels being prcveutcil from obtaining these supplies from our people. It looked too much like cutting oil the noao to bo roveugeil on the face. The value of arti. .'S supplied in this way was very large, and the rovcnue, as well as tho inhabitants, was benefited by it ; whilst the onl/ injury that would bo done to tho Americana by prohibiting tho trailo was to oblige them to bring tho supplier with tiiein from home, or drive them to Prince Ed- ward Island, where every facility was readily given them. He had understood that, until tho 'J'reaty waa finally ratified, it was the in- teuLion of tho CJovcrnment to prevent American voa.sel3 fro.ii landiug their catch in ])iirts of the Domiuion. He much doubted tho wisdom of this restriction. It might be all well euotigh if they were not permitted to do so iu Prince Edward's Island. That island lay almoat iu the centre of the fishing grouu'ls, and there they were allowed to take all supplies they might reijuire, and land their fish, which waa re-shipped in American steamers that plied weekly between Char- lottetowu and Boston. Such action on the part of tho Goverumont would hardly form any restriction to the Americans while they had Prince Elwaid Island open to them, and would only deprive our peo- ple of tho Strait of Canso, the advan- tage of storage and harbour attendant on tho landing of cargoes, and our vessels of the benefit of tho freighting of thcni to tho United States. As ho had said it wai quite evident that Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island wei-o favourable to tho Treaty, and if wo reject it, would not these prov- inces congratulate themselves for not hraijtg come into the c.nifcderation, and would ii'.'t tho rejection of tho Treaty form an efloctual barrier against their Cuming into it? (Ibnir, hear.) In reeemmending the acuoptaiice of tliis Treaty, ho assured the House thai, he had no iieraonal end to serve, nor \i";i^ it because it mi"lit bo favoured by the Govcii- meiit; and Tie might as well take this opjjortuuity to state that ho was not a supporter of tho ('ovriiimcnt. Ho w.is in- fluenced by more worthy motives. He v.\slii favour of the 'J'reaty because it woiiM have tho efi'eet of eatablishing permanent peaceable relations with a powerful neigh- bouring country. He was in favour of it be- c.ause it would largely benefit wliaV would became under it the most important interest of tho Dominion, without at the aamo time injuring any other interest ia the least de 14 ©UI^PLEMENT TO THE MAIL. greo. Ho Wtts in favour "f it became it would render unneceassry tli« groat oxpengo, and it niijlit bo tlio i,liil greater responsi- bility of protecting ll.iit interest; and bo- cause it winld ninU^^ fiv us friouds md cus- tomers of forty ni'lliuus of people. (Clicors.) i li i On Tnesdny, the debate wai. resumed byPr. TUI'I'Kl!, who said h ■ .ould not bat feel that ho would ill diHohiiryu his duty if, upon so momentous a question, ho d'd not give to the llouBo the views ho entertiiinwt. The hon. ^oiillenan who bad juafc taken his seat hati stated that bisconstiluenta of Ixith parlies were strongly opp(>3C uncier Uiscus.sion. It was not a (piestio'i of party in Canada any more than it WDB in England. What was tho ease there ? A member of the hto cabinet had been invited by tho Government of the day to give his assistance and co-operation in reforcnco to the Treaty, ami he had given bis services as freely anil unreservedly as if he luvl been called upon by n (Jovernnient of which he was a member. When the Treaty was sub- mitted to Parliament, great as the opportu- nities were for the Opponition tt) oppose it, they forgot Mbat was due to party, look- ing only to what waa due to tlieir commou country. I'e.vMiig tho proceedings which had taken place in the Imperiial Parlia- ment yesterday what d id they find ? A common sentiment of joy and satisfaction [wrvaded both sides of the 1 louse, on the a.inouncemcnt by the Premier that the cloud wliich had over- shadowed these proceedings was to bo dis- pelled. Not that gentlemen on both sides of the House in the Imperial Parliament re- garded with the same favour tho general features of tho Treaty, but because men of all parties felt that whether it was perfect or imperfect there wero general leading fea- tures m it which commended it to tho candiil conaideration of all men. It was only a few years ago that tlie great country lying along side of CVinada was engaged in a deadly strug- gle. The Sonth h.ad risen, and tho Noi-tli was prepared, at any sacrifioe of blood and money, to prcstrvo the Union '.'.tact ; and, when engaged in that d'jadly combat, it became knoivii that cruisers wero being built in Great Britain for the purpose ' t taking part in that strng- glo, representations were m.idt; to tlie Im- perial (iovernment, ami thty put furth their hand to prevent the departure of those ves- sels. Subsequently, liowever, the Alabama escaped, and in order to avoid the possibi- lity of further difficulty, they themselves Surchased the other vessels. Was it won- arful that this mlmission on tho part of G-eat Britain should have excited a people, who had felt that tlieir struggle hail been increased in its intensity, and should cause them to demand redress from a Government, whose waut of vigour and effort had exposed them to so great and increased danger ? Nor could England turn a deaf ear to a demand for reparation made by forty millions of people, lying alongside of Canada. At the time tbi Johnson-Clarendon Treaty was rejected, the United States took tho at- titude that they would not ask for a re-open- ing of the negotiation in this matter; which meant that they had an undoubted claim, and intended to hold it back until circum- stances best Binted theirpresenting it against Englaud; that they would treasure up their wrath against a day of wratli ; that when England was eng.aged in some Continental struggle the United States would tiud their opportunity of enforcing what they con- sidered their just claims ogainst her That view, and a knowledge of the fact that England had a weak point on tliis continent, had niulountedly influenced tho Imperial (iovernment in endeavouring to brini' tho question to a linal and amicable settlement. Great and important as the Treaty was to the British Empire at large, it wad far inoro BO to Canada ; and ho believed it w-os not alone important to England or Canada. Ho looked upon it as a gigantic stride in the pro- gress of oivilizaticm. Euglo"! having ad- mitted, as she did m'mit, that she had a duty to perform in reference to those cniiaors was not humiliated by the exprBs.sion of re- Swt which formed r part of tho Titaty. e thought that England would be amply repaid for any cost or trouble she hatl been put to in tho settlement of these questions, by the establishment of that new principle of >nt«m»tionaI law which wm to govern Bach matters in tho future, lie had said that Canaihi had no sniall interest in this matter. He would not repeat tho elaborate ai'i^iment that had been nued by tho l''irat Minister, showing tho great value of this Treaty to us ; but ho woultl say Avo must look at our position. AVliilo Canada was uniteil with England, bo believed tliat wo co.ird defend ourselves against any power that would be brought against us ; but when we looked at the groat strength of tho coun- try near us and measured tho cliancns of a contest with it, everybody must feel that while I'^nglaiid couhl bring all her great na- val power to bear and would come ftnt of tho strugulo without discredit, wo woidd not bo able to live out such a eonllict, except with tho same gory fields that had destroyed France ; and it would ill bceonio (J.madn, reg.ivdodossho wai by England iit a vulnerable point, at. such a time to raise her Iiands and say, " We think you have humili- ded and disgraced y.fUraolvcH, and wo will 10 no party to this Treaty whieli you have uiide, ' But it was not only a question of peace or war. Everybody know that no ■ountry in tho worhl had a deeper intere.it than Canada ha been stated from the Throne itself, and from the independent benches of both Hcmses of Parliament that Canada had the full and unrostrioted right to decide for herself in this matter. But was tho fact that no pressure had been brought to bear upon us to prevent us from givi-..g that consideration to tho (luestion which the intcrcst.1 of tho Empire reriuire- ed ^ was that a reosp-i why we should treat with contempt and iudilTerenco tho great and vital interest that England li.ad in tho decision at which we arrive! tho position of tho G.iverninent in asking Parliament to ratify tho Treaty by the able and exhaustive speech of the First Min- ister, than by the laboured — able of course— but laboured efforts of hon. gentle, men opposite to criticise that speech. He cuiisidered that they had been fully replied to, and he would not go into them at any length. He would reto to one point, how- ever. It had been said that his hon. friend the First Minister had thrown a doubt over our position in relation to tho fishoriee. Ho hod no hdsitatiou in aayiag, anil no one had followed that hon. gentleman's remark' mora closely than ho had, and that ho had been entirely misrepre- sented. It would bo impossible with- out the greatest perversion of language to draw such a conclusion from hi.i remarks. Ho (Sir .Tohn) had 'said that pretensions had been set up by American jiiri its of no mean standing, whoso opinions bad i-eceivid a certain amount of consideration from the press of i ho United Statej ; but ho had not uttered at any time a single scntoneo that would lead to tho belief that he doubted tho entire sovereignty of this country over the indiore fisheries. But everybody acUnow- lodgod that tho Government of tho I'nited States had now admitted our lights in a fuller degree than they h.vl ever done before, not only liy tlieir ofl'or to admit tho productn of our fisheries into their market i free, in consideration of those tisliorics, but by their leaving it to an iudependent arbitra- tion to say bow much tluy sV.ould pay in addition for such privilege. \Vliat- ever doubt, therefore, might have been raised, had now been set aside. It had been alleged that we wero coding ter- ritorial riglits for a money consideration. There never was a more unworthy attack mailo to bifluonce tlio minds of the people of this country than tlie jittempt made to show that this was a question of ceding territorial rights for money. Ho would refer to tho State papers which h.ad been brought down to show the position the Government had taken on this question, and which tlie hon. gentlemen opposite had signified their ap- proval of. It had been called a "capitula- tion," but the same pageof tho Treaty which gave to the people of the United States the right to enjoy tlie inshore fisheries, eontainod a concoasion of precisely th.j same eliaractor on the part o' the people of the UnitedStates, and they had ceded their territory to n". as much as we had to them. ^Vhat strength- ened his coiLldcnce in the wisdom of the course pursued by tho Government was tlie entile al)sence of argument in the speeches of hon. gentlemen opposite. In all they had said upon this subject they had not ad- dressed themselves to such arguments as sensible men would have urged in grave matters of international polity ; but bad resorted to quibbles of a character so con- temptible as to bo altogether un- worthy of tho attention of an iiitel- ligont deliberative ass'.mbly. (Hear, hear.) He would not attempt to follow thoin by ex- posing tho absurdity of those quibbles, nor to imitate tho hon. member for Peel who, in his eloquent address which h.ad so charmed tho House, and let a flood of d.aylight into the sophistries of the hon. member for West Durham, and thoroughly exposed tlieir fal- lacy. Nobody who had listenei', to that hon. gentleman could fail to see, as his argu- ment proceeded so logically from point to point, that that which had Ijeen presented to tho House \>y hon. gentlemen opposite as an astounding discovery privod to be nothing more than tho most' idle vapouring, entirely anworthyof the consideration of tho House. They had spoken of tho artio'e of the Treaty affecting the navigation of the HYi. 'jawrence as something like a liii^Iity surrci. vor of the river. Well, what did timi surrendev amount to ? What was Canada really parting with ! What did the House under3t.ai.d as to that point, after all the laboured efforts that h.ad been made to prove that the St. Lawrence ought not to be surrendered? Did not hon. gentlemen opposite know th.at as long ago as 1S2I5 the United States hail demand- ed the right to navigate that river ; that they had put forth this claim, not in the shape of a privilege which they were asking, not as a concession which should be granted to them, but as a right to which they wero entitled; and when it was refnaed by England as a right, as hon. gentlemen would see, by refer- ring to the State papei-s on tho subject, tho United iStates declined to accept it as a concession? In what position were they now ? Were tiioy any better than be- fore ? The concession, if concession it could be called, had l;een mailc; but they had been compelled to acknowlo.lgo, by giving reciprocal pri^-ilegcs to C.an:Mlians, that they had not a right to tho St. Lawrence. Hon. gentlemen opposite said that what the Ainericaus conocdod WM of in advantage, because thero was no value to (.'anada in tho navigation of the rivers of Alaska, and that even if there was it was conferred in any case by the old Treaty with Russia. But he held that, if that Treaty wasstill linding a hundred limflsover, theartieleiuthisTrcaty was, never- theless, of substantial v.aluo, bocauso it coupled with the right to nif^igato the St. Lawrence tho right also to navigate the rivers of the Territory of Alaska. It thus ihowed, and woold always continue to show, pro f of tho fact tlifit what tho United States askeil frnrn Canada on the one hand, they wero nli liged to r;ive to Canada on the other If it was, then, yielding a privi lege to admit them to tho free navi gation of the St. Lawrence, they wert committed to the same jiolicy by giving u> the same right in roganl to tlio rivers lie hail mentioned, '.''hcwwerethequibldeswitli w hiih the House had been entertained iutheabsenoi of all nrgiiniont on tho part of hon. geiitl«. f' man opposite, in reference to this importiint*'^ question, (Hear, hear. ) It had been statcii by tho hon. member for .Shcrbrooko in tin course of Ins speech, that the Treaty of 1871 conceded less to the United States than th' Iteciprocity Treatyof ISM. Ho (Dr. Tuppci darcil say "th.it this had takou many by aur priso ; but the hou. gentleman had gooii reosoES for saying what bo did. Hon. gen tlemeii opposite had said that tho right tr navigate the St. Lawroneo was tjie onl.^ lever, or one of the principal levers we hail in onler to effect reciprieity ; but wha*evei lever we had for application in that direc- tion was not in the uro of tho nvor itself in its natural state, but iii tho uao of the canals which ronderul the navigation practicable. Well, it was to bo observed that the canals which tho Treaty of 18.54 had given up to the use of Americana were preaervcil by tho Treaty of 1871, to beusoilbythe Canailirn Govenime::k and people aa a levtt for obtaining I'eeiprocity at such time and in such a manner in future as might bo con- sidered advisable. (Hear, hear.) Ho wouW now come to the question of tho fisheries, that other lever which was to be uaod in conjunction with tho St. Lawrence to obtain a Reciprocity Treaty ; and he would asli g jntlemen who talked so lightly about thii ?ue8tion it they quite understood what the reo jntry of hsh and lish oil into th( American market me!<^tf If any thing could enlighten tho Houst upon that point it was the able and inter esting argument which had been presented to the House last night by tho hon. member for tho county of Halifax, Mr. Power That , hon. gentleman had imparted an amount ol information upon tho snbjectwhich the HonSf hadlistcned for in vain from other hon. mem hers, and ho had been able to do ao for thi reason : that thero was not a man in tht Houae, ho (Dr. Tuppcr) wa« bold enough to say — even in the prcaenco of tho inembera who more particularly represented the enterprising fishing interests in th« Province of Quebec— thero was not perhaps a man in the whole of Canada, who was bet- tor acquainted with tho question, or who was a higher authority in every thing that re- lated to it, than that hon. gentleman who had made a large fortune out of tho fish- eries. He stood in tho position of a man who had devoted his wholo life to enter- prises connected with tho fisheries of the Maritime Provinces, who had ^ivcn them his moat careful study and attention, and who had become possessed of every information eoncoming them. When ho, therefore, told the House that the Treaty, instead of being , a sale and betrayal of our fishery rights, was a measure which would enrich the fishermen of thia country, promote ita prosperi'y, and increase its aa- : v.ancement in every way, he (Dr. Tupper) would placethatstatenentagainsttherandom assertions of hon. gem lemon o iposite. ( Hear, hear.) It was indi- d a mjre convincing argument that tho ' ight stop had been taken than anything thr.r was in his (Dr. Tupper'a) power to say. Uon. gentlemen opposite af- fected to treat this matter of the free entry of fish and fish oil into the United States as insignificant, and pretended to deal with it as if it ^nonnted to nothing in con- sidering the advantages and disadvantages of tho Treaty. But what were the facta ? In the amall Province of Nova Scotia, tho total catch of fish last Jear amountedtoover$5,000,0(X), andthe dutythat this Treaty would remit on tho mackerel and herring alono caught bytho fishermen of that Provinco last soaaou would amount to over ' ?800,0o of tho river itself in iu tho use of the canaU imvigation practicable. : )o ousorvcd that the ■eaty of 1854 had given icricans were preserveil 871, to be used by the t and people as a levet city at such time and in 'utnre as might bo con* Hoar, hear. ) Ho wouM oxtion of the fisheries, liicli was to be used in St. Lawrence to obtain r ; and ho would »mV id so lightly about this bo understood what thi and fish oil into tht mciftt f If any ightcn tho Houst rsa the able and inter- ich ha ns,!e-.t. (Laughter.) been ' ' sold," and how point arisen ? Every- e member for West indcd a note of and endeavoured lie of this country Treaty, and he (Dr. word to say as t« the which thia work of menced and carried on. Lambton had repu- t hod baeu made by which it was chaiged pposite bad foUomd SUPPLEMENT TO THE MAII.. 15 I the wake of the Tcrcnto (Hibe in opjiosiLg It Treaty ; that, instead oi having opinions ithtfli otvii upon so great and imiiortnnt lubjeot, thero was a power beliind them bicb marked the course they should pur- that they were unable to resist this in- c«, and that, if ithadnotbeeii for its ini- luus exei-uiao, they would not be found in iitioii to the Treaty to-day. Tho hon. Inr (or West )urham hod adopted tho « lino iu relation to that statement ; but it woi't tho facts ? liCt him (Di-. Tupper) lino them for a moment, for ly were of tho d..-epoat possi- signiltcancc. Tho hon. member West Dui'huui liatr declared that the Op- 't.on was prepared to puraue a patriotic no in relation to this question, and that 'ould have come to the support of tho it Minister if he hod refused to carry out igotiation which was injurious in its its to the interests of this country. That imont sounded very well, anil ho (Dr. iper) had no doubt from tho sincerity of ki which it was inado that tho hon. Oman had brought himself to I elieve such would have been his course in tho ise if the I'irst Minister had acted in way. Ho thought, however, that tho ry of the caso would scarcely bear out assertion. On looking into that history ^t did thoy find had haiipencd ? Early " ,0 month of May the O'otir newspaper shed a stotement that tho Treaty had signed, and on the 13th it published the ►ty in r.('(t7(so, together with an editorial, ih contained the patriotic and signiiicaiit k "that the whole question was now ire the country," and that it " trusted it Id be discussed in a manner free from bias, and worthy of its gieat im- " He did not pretend to quote tho lan^'uage employed, but Ire did not ate its nature when he said that it was , high degree patriotic. .Soon, however. Globe, with tar-seeing eyes, discovered ,dB on tho horizon, first in one direction then in another. An election was jing in Nova Scotia, and the party there ioh was o]iposod to the Domimoii ("iovem- it was taking ground against the Treaty. Legislature of Now Brunswick was lion at the same time, and on the first without waiting for full infer- on on tho question, it ca^ue to a decision, condemning in advance provisions of the Treaty. That took on the 18th, and on the following tho 19th, the Olobe'e patriotic aspira- in refereneo to the mode in which question should bo approached and dealt ...Jiwero scattered to the winds; and then fMve out an article of a column in length, iu ^Msh the most fiery denuuciations possible inie showered on the Treaty. Up to that tho hon. members for Lambton and Durham had been silent on the sub- MACKENZIE-No. TUPPER thought that it was so; and tliit, if the hon. gentleman examined the papers tH^Qie library, he would find that the state- it was borne out by the record. Theipeech ';the hon. member for West Durham, in " ih he announced his opposition to tho ity, was not delivered until after the had come out in its denunciation. He ight that was tho true account of the INitter, and if it was the case — ^pr. SIACKENZIE— No ; it is not the Dr. TUPPER— If that was the caso, the , gentleman did not deserve much credit patriotism, either in treating the question he rivst place, or for their profl'er of sup- i to tiio (Jovemment, proviueeetivo altogether of tho sood of the country; and tbcy played fast an. I loose with the question, dealing with it not as it would servo tho intorests of th»- people of tho Dominion, hut as it would givo them tho cli.auce of aiming a deadly blow at those to whom the administration of affairs in this country was committed. (Cheers.) The hon. member for West Durham had said, in rel.ation to the fisheries, that their value was about seven millions. He ( Dr. Tupper) would ask tho IfouBo to examine with him for & moment whether their value had been lessen- ed or increased by anything contained in the Treaty. Ho admitted, indeed he had no hesitation in saying, that when the Treaty first appeared there was a feeling of disappointment among the people of the country, which was shar'jd in also by tho Govorument, bocauae thero was not a renewal of the reciprocal arrangements of the Treaty of 1854. Everybody knew that that Treaty had been beneficial to this country; that, in a still higher degree, it had been beneficial to tho people of the United States; and thero was a general desire that there should be a renewal of ar- rangements that had proved so mutually advantageous. When the Treaty of last year was first published, then, it undoubted- ly excited a good deal of disappointment ii tlwt respect. What were the reasons that had caused this failure to obtain what so mauy in both countries thought desirable ? It seemed to bo forgotten to r. great extent by the press and the people in discussing tbu question, that, between 1854 and 1871, ; great change had taken place in the relative coinniercial positions of tho two countrias Everybody knew that tlie right of tho Americans to fish in our waters, granted iu 1854, was at that time au oxtromcly valu- able concession, an enoi-mous one, mdeed, which had grently increased the prosperity of the Aiuerican fishing trade, there being then nothing to prevent competition with the fishermen of the Maritime Provinceu. But what was the case now ? Was not every- body aware that a great change had occurred ? Why, uiKin the terms on which theright was granted — the condition that tho duty on fish should bo removed, and Canadians adiuitted on an equal footing to tht American market —where were tho fishermen of the Uuited States ? Was it not known that thoy were almost in a state of overt rebellion ? The hon. gentleman had asked for proof that they were opnosed to the Treaty. Well, the proof, thero was plenty of it, was to the fore. Public meetings had been held in Bos- ton, as well as throughout the fishing dis- tricts. atwhicliCongross had beeu memorializ- ed to prevent this injury to the American fish- ing interest. It had also been placed on reconl at those meetings that the Treaty struck a fatal blow at that interest, inasmuch as, whUe in 1854 American lishenuen were abla to compete with Canadians, because they had no high taxes to pay, and the cost of outfit was much less than at present, the war aud the burdens it had left behind had so changed their position in relation to this question, that every Can.vliaii fisherman, who had the lish in the sea at his own door, with all tiht advantages of cheap vessels and cheap equipD" ■•, and if ho belonged, as no one doubted, to tho same courageous and adventurous class as the Americans, would enter into tho competition with an advantage of 40 or 50 per cent, in his fovour. (Hear, hear. ) ^That was the ground tho Americans hod taken, who were most concerned in this interest; and he (Dr. Tnppnr) would ask if there was a man iu thia llouso, no matter from what Province he might be, whether from Oatario or Quabw, Nova Sootia or Naw Brunswick, who would say that the Cana- dian fisher an was deserving cf aiiy con- sideration, if he was not able with tha*^ premium in his favour to meet the competi- tion not only of tho United States, but of tho world? (Hear, hear.) Why then, in- stead of the Treaty aurri iideriiig our fisher- men and tiHheriea to the destructive competition of the foroiijner, the re- sult would 1)0— and mark his words, the facts would soon shou it — that tho American fishermen who employed their industry in tho '.vatera (.i ../anada would become like the American lunibcrmeii who engaged in that trade in the valley of the Ottawa J they would settle upon t'ana- dii.n soil, bringing with them their cbaracter for enterprise and oiicrgy, and would become '•'luallygood subjects of Her MnjcBly, would givo this country the bciieiit of their talents andtheirouterpriseandtheircftpital. (Cheers.) Was thero anybody who could doubt as to the dffect of removing the duty which was now levied of two dollars per barrel upou mackerel aud one dollar upon hcr- rmgs ; of taking oil this enormous bounty in favour oi the American fishermen, andlcavingourlishcrmon free and unrestricted access to the best market for tliciu iu tho worhl ? Was there any one who could doubt that the practical result would be to leave the Canadians, in a very sliort'timc, almost with- out any competition at all ? Ami yet hon. gentlemen opposite preteiulod to believe that the Act which would produce 8ac)\ a state of things as that was a suirendcr, a "base siir- rondor," as thoy pretend, of our fisher- ies of this country. Tho newspaper press of Canada, and cspeci.ally tlin press representing lum. gentlemen opposii,?, hail for a long time held cut th j kIci 'hat Parliament and the Covernmen . must > . tect the poor struggliiiLj anil iidusli> fishennen of Nova .Scotia and the otu provinces against tho opor-.tion of thia Treaty, which, it was hold, woiiM be ruinoua to them ill every way. GriuUi.aU}', however, light began to break iu upon them, until .-.t hut they discovered this extraordinary fact, that ■whUe the clauses of tliis Treaty which related to Canada wore held by every intelligent fisherman to bo a great boon, as something which would take the taxed olf thoui and relieve them from hundroda of tlinusamlH of dollars tribute that thoy were now compelled to p.ay to a foreign nation, the fishermen of the United .States were, on the other hand, just as much averse to the Treaty aa our own people were auxious that it should bo carried into cfTect. (Hear, hear.) How ditlereut Mould tho future be under this Treaty from what it would oertainly bo if the jiresent state of af- fairs wero to continue. What was tho re- -^ult now 1 Why, many of our fishermen ■"v ere compelled to goto tho Un' ted .Stat]>iiiioii of hon. gentlemen oppo- site to believe for an instant that he could find a mail in their ranks who, in any such gro.'.t crisis in the affairs of his country, and having regard to the momentous question not only of tho Imperial relations with a foreign pow^r, but of tho relations of this colony with the Mother Country, would, if he had been in the position of aCommissioner, have taken the fearful responsibility upon his head of saying, " Even though you do reserve to oui Parliament a final decision upon the matter, I will refuse to sign the Treaty, although it may be fatal to the hopes of a friendly settlement of the questions between the two countries, may ba expected to place the Empire in peril, and may throw England back and destroy all liopes of a peaceful solution of existing diffi- culties." (Cheers.) He (Dr. Tupper) did not believe there was a man amongst them who would 1)0 willing to have asaumed aiich a load of responsibihty. It thero was ho felt assured that that man would not, on his re- turn, have received an enthusiastic recep- tion from the people of this country, but rather that tho linger of scorn would have been pointed at him as a traitor, not only to the highest and hohest interests of the Empire, but a traitor to tho people of Canadaoswell. (Ijoud cheers.) Tliehon.mem- ber for Huron had asked tho meaning of the refusal of free coal, and free salt, and free lumber after 1874 ; ond yet the acceptance of free fish emd fish oil at a later period. The matter woa perfectly intelligible. The hon. gentleman complained that ho did not find arguments in the protocols on tho matter. Ho could not know tho facts. Ho cmild not know that the protocols wero not prepared till the last thing, so as to give the general principles oil winch the results were b.ised. Tho hon. gentleman ought to be satisfied with the extract from the speech iuthe House of Lords of the chairman of the Commission, quoted by the Minister of Finance, showing that reciprocity had been struggled for in the most determined way possible, and had only been given up when nothing more could Iw done. A gooil deal hod been said about tho " national policy," and ho might say that centlcmen opposite hod not tho excuse they had urged for their action in that matter. Hon. gentlemen op- posite had treated the fisheries as of little vslue, when he, night after night, struggled to gii Parliament to adopt tho prinoipw of 16 SUPPLEMENT TO THE MAIL. T" their protecting tliom am', tuxing tho )iro- diicU (if tho IJiiitf.l ,St:vi'-i. lli; hail al»ays niniiit^tineil, oh hu did nuw, thut tliuro WHS iiiithiii^ moru nuucssury to tho |)r()3pority of this cmintry than ruri- proi'ul trailc witli tho IJniti^d States, ami it wa8 under that iiiipiCHsiou that, in tlio dis- tliarj^o of hia dnty, ho Mtrugfli d with tho Guvtrniineut and Opjiuuition, and conihintd with hoji, gontlcnan is they were preimreil, for the meni pur- pose of obtaining a tempi niry triumph over the Government, to re *'crse tl.e policy that had boon 6o successfully institutetf. But hia appeal was in vain; and it was no wonder when the news came that tho action of tho Canatliau I*arlianient liad entirely changed the aspect of the matter in the United States, anil that the offer previo\isly m-\do was withdrawn. If the hon. gentlemen wanted to know why i;lie First Minister did not accept tho offer when tir'~t mjule, it was this : Ho said — " You ought to gjvo us more. You gave ns more in I. '."it. If you want tlie ■amo privileges you tht.i enjoyed you must give us more." -But when the hon. gentleman was making a gallant and probably a not inclicctu.il struggle to advance the great agricultural in- terests of thi! Provinces, hon. gentlemen op- posite cond)ined to strike down his Imnd. Ho had then to adopt tho Treaty or to take the responsiiiility of striking the deal- lieat blow possible at the interests of tho Umpire. Uo was in favour of the Treaty, because it was the (udy meuus left to obtain recilirocal trade, by all.ayiug all enmities be- tween tlie two countries. This was already found to bo the result, and everyone who had -visited the United .St.ites since the rati- fic'ition of the Treaty came back in favour of it, for tho reainn that there was a .wonderful difference in the state of feeling in the United States towards Canada. All the acrimonious feeling fonnerly existero- cocdings (>f Congress, and they would iind tho same change evidenciil there. 'I'hi! mem- ber for West Durham staled that, it Canada had coutiuned the policy of exclusion, tho American iiBheries would vcrj^ soon have utterly failed, ami they wool 1 have been at our mercy. This was a great mistr.ko. f.ast Bummer he went down in a'steamtr fromlJal- housie to IHctou, and fell in with a fleet of thirty Amcriciui li-hing vessels wliicli hatl averaged UUO bbls. of maekerclin three weeks, and had never been within ten miles of tho shoi'c; and from this the momborfor Durham ■would see that tho exclusion of the Ameri- cans w;i Mr. were within the headlands. Dr. TUPl'Ell said he could not speak aa to that ; but the question was alt.igither a captious one, for it was well known tliat the headland limit had not been enforced for years. Ho maintained that the member for \\e8t Durham gave u}t tiie whole argument when he spoke of bounties being necessary to enable tho Americans to compete -vitn the Canadian fishermen. If, h'jwcvcr, the hou. member would read the proceedings of Congress, ho would find that tho question of bountiei hod b«en scouted from tho very that allayed. vas not qu'te asedicientasweiniagincd, MAClvi:>'ZIE a.';kod whether thoy thoy first, and that it was admitted on all hands tiiat a system of bounties was i.tterly I'npoa- sible; but further, tho bighcrt system of bounty would give but jlOO to u ves- sel, while the remissioi of duty oh her cargo would amount to tl,'200i and therefore tho bounty could not, under any eircunistanccs, do away with tho advan- tagi^s on the side of Canadian ii-«iicrinen. Ho again referred to what hu termed the un^jn- triotic aelion of numdiers hut year. Mr. lltJIVl'DN' thought tho hou. gentle- man was out of order in rcllccting ou tho aelion of the House. Sir JOHN MACDONAId) said it was not out of order, for tho action of tho Houso was aUv.ays oj)cn t^) appeal. Dr. Tl'I'l'EIl said ho was quito satisfied to tind tho hon. gentleman acknowledged that a reference to his former a< -ion was a relicetion. Mr. HOl/l'DN said, however that might bo, the hon. gcntlennui assumed the rcspou- bility of that a<:tion. Dr. TUri'EH said that was under com- pulsion. If hon. gentleman would read a Htatemcnt recently made by tho chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means of tho United States thoy would seo that it woidd bo impracticable for the Ui Itod .StaU's to ailopt a jiolicy that woidd eouiitoract tho advantages derived by Can.idian iishcrmen. Ho would now oak hon. gentlemen to turn their attention to tho ellect of the Treaty ou the ahi)iping int< rest of the country. The mendier for Halifax had lolil them that he went to visit a fishery in which ho was concerned, when tho Treaty of bSj't wa^ in force, and found that, out of forty or fifty vessels, scarcely one was Aineri- enn ; but tlub on another occasion, after tho abrogation tf that treaty, omong an eipi.al number of vessels, scarcely ono was C.iiiadiau, It inuat be remcndiered that our commercial nno in amcunted to a millitm tons, and the House would sec that, whether in connection w ith the fishery or tho bhip-building interest, tho v:Jue of the Treaty could not bo over- rated. Ho wo.ild now refer to the state of public r 'inion in Nova .Scotia. Before tho Ticatj waa ina eloquently ami for. i' upon tho subject, instead of taki,'^ their arguments from tho newapapeiB wli had di^,cus.ied th.) Treaty in an unfrieiii 1 apirit, h.ad drawn all their iuapiration ItM documents which tho fioverument liad |. pared for submisaion to the Imperial Gov. ment. Uo acknowledged and felt it to 1 high compliment, when such able i looked for arguments to sustain their cot in p.apera tliat had been written by Government. (Hear, and laughter.) v.'ouhl now address himself to some pint of thu speech of the hon. member for \^ Durham that had not yet been answc The hon. gentleman had divided his sji' into three topics- -first, the cession of 1. torial rights; second, tho legality of Treaty as far as it conceded the n fation of the St. Lawrence; and third, 'eniau claims. On tho first topic he laboured to make it appear that he inq a cession of territorial rights, but he not succeeded in making out hia case, had acknowledgcil that no harm been dono, because power waa reserve the C«nadian Parliament and people to jcct "or confirm the work of tho Corauiit- era. When the hon. jjentleman afterw.^ referred to tho navigation ol tho St. I reuoc, ho had laid down a proposition of ternational law which was entirely incoriiij^ and knowing, as he did, tho legal abilitvsli his hon. friend, it had surpriseiT him to ! such a doctrine put forth. It had I urged that, as tho fishery clauses of Treaty had bean reserved for the deeisi' this Porliament, so, too, ought tho an relating to tho St. Lawrence, becanse t river from St. Ilegis downwards llowcil twuen banks which on both sides were I adi.aii territory. Thu hon. gentleman ! • too th.it the Confederation Act, by giv this , Parliament power to legislate n.avigatiou and shipping, conferreil the ii3 upon Can.ada of legislating with regard to, navigation of tho St. Lawrence; and ti| therefore, the conacnt of Parliament to ■. article of tho Treaty should havo 1| sought. That part of the hon. mem' argument had not been answered, am!| (Sir George) would address himsolf to false legal pretentions advanced by hon. tleman. The reaaon that tho articles of | Treaty providiii" for tho free admisaioJ liah, and fish oil had been reserved for| decision of Parliament, w.aa that thoir off tion depended upon tho repeal of i' torn duties, which conld only I o removcii an Act of the Canadian Parliament. Til was also another reason: — By the Oonfed tion Act the Parliament of tho Doiniiu had a right to make laws within the tti torial boundaries of the Dominion. It «' coneedc.l that tho sea within three ni;i I milesof the shore waa pai't of tho territop tho comitry, and that vessels of other natJ hail a right to navigate those waters any purpose.? of trade other than lislij What made it necessary that the asseiij Pivrliamont should be obtained to allow ^ sola to frequent these watora for fishini that, in order to i?.arry out tho fiali profitably, it was requisite that fishen would Land their nets and use the shore tho purpose of drying and cui-ing j that i to say, to uso our territory for that puri>j Aa it reated with this Parliament to dif mine who should enjoy such a right as tit the Commissioners in this instance knew ' tho assent of. Parliament was neecs" before those articles could becoino opera:! From that necessity tho hon. bor for West Durham had aij.* by inference that tho right to navigate f St. lAwrenoe ought olio to have been 8XJFPLEMENT TO THE MAIL. ir 1 plttco ill New Bninnwi ho Maine boundary, aiiilllii 180(1 til allnw tlio Iiiiiur tlio CommisiiionerB to I lot tliat thoy Avoro awaru on, niid that thuy weru i ing that wouM hear thu i :e»ai<)ii of torritoriul njjl ', aa it v/M llimlly conulin h iiaaioii. (lliar, hour.) th h'ruut iilonaiiru to all t, I who had H|»ikuii uii md ii.irticiilrirly to \i • Wont I'lirhaui, mid ]m wir had lieonutruck with Ihi; Hint two liouraof thtttl: li ho hail drawn allhiani niuut» that hadbcoii prop;) j1' tlio ({ovorniuent. ^Ih Kind to lieu tliiit the ruK^ 1 pnsontod to the Iinpi irdur to seoiiro lilieral tn wuro HO highly approui.i sg 2iitU^incii opposite, mid n ulimivo OS to form the |i addrusgod to the Houhc matter of surprise to li , 10 Icailom of thu Oiipoaiti » Ml olcjfjuoiitly and tor' i! tj hjout, instead of t.ilvi ' from the novrBpapcra wli th'! Treaty in an unfriein n all their inspiration fr. h tho fioveriimeut liad | aion to the Imperial Go\ nowludjjed and felt it to it, when such able i untf to uuistaiii their con liad been written liy (Hear, and laughter.) OSS hiniHelf to Hume port the hoii. member for W d not yet been auswi nan had divided his sjj' first, the cession of I ocond, tlie legality of s it eouccd.ed tlie ii liiiwrcnco; and third, Uu the firdt topic ho it appear that lie iniji ritorial rights, hut he makii.j,' out his case. god that no harm use power was reserve': irliament an ex- plained that, after Confederation, the Americans preaumod that the Dominion of Canada containe- ^ 18 SIJPFLF.MIONT TO TTTF. MAIL. [u pou of rcvion, and argument, tnil judios be ouiisicli!r«l u tliB tiua ei|MinenU and tho b««tt«ituf tlia riuht of iiutiinis. (Hear, hear.) A* rcgardwl iiiiUviilutli, noil vrai with reapcot tu iiatiuna. Hulutinna whcru a aulutinn of grave ditlloultiea ami i)ifl'ur«iic« waaclinirud. Tliuro was no luoilu ao wtill oaluiil.ilcd to rlTcot that olijuut, an aiuiiile, rational, and likiily to l>o attended with muh beiiiiiii'iitl nianlla ai that in which tho in- dividnaU or nations were brought into diri'ct intcroouiso, to alttto their grisvanvoi and frniilcly uckaowlndi(u their reipouiiibility, ami when that WM deterred to eall in the aid of •ouiu impartial friend, by whouu decision they would agree to b« bound. Acting upon thia great principle, the heads of these two powerful nations hail agreed to snlwerdio their «oi.l to tliii Treaty. The rorliainent and people of Kngland had foUoweil that glorious cxMn|>le. In that great arena of eloquenuo and patriotism political giadiators hail coat oaiilo the onlinary weapons of their warfare. Parties hail been hushed ; rival leodirs hail sinikeii together in hur- mniiy and accord ; the interests of mil- lions of population of Kngland mid America^ the intoreats of hundreds of millions of the earth's inhabitants, the progreua aud eiTili- z.ition, tho peace and general welfare of the world hail been eonsnltvil, anil in that great arena, in that great Parliament, tho people, by their representatives, and tho representa- tives, by the sanction of the |>eople, had ap- proved and ratified that nioile of settling international differences. (Cheers.) Ana yet hero wo in C'anaila were asked to take another course. We were asknl to reject this humane, this Ixinevolent, this pbilon- thropic mode of settlomeut. We wore askeil to reject the results of the labours of those pious aud gowl meu who hail taken part in these deliberations. Shoald we do anything of the kind * Should we do any- thing but confirm this Treaty ? He believed that tho respoUBO of this House would be iu the negative ; and he felt conlidont that with this treatv ratified so far as wo could ratify it, with tnis bill, now before the House mule A portion ot thestatutes of our country, anew era woull occur in reference to our relations with tho United States, and a new cause of rejoicing would como to the peopio of the Dominion, that their lot was cast in this happy land. (Cheers.) Mr. MfDONALD (Lunenburg) said that ho hod never, from tho first day on which tho Treaty bad been published, changed his mind in regard to it. From tho first no hail regarded it favourably as a settlement of a diltloult question and a measure which he thoughtougbt to and would receive the sam- tion of the House. Tie adniittoil that it did not combine all that the peopio of Can»Ja would like to receive in tho way of oonioa- slons from their neighbours, but taking it Ml iu all, lir looked upon it as an exceeding. ly rational mode of settling differonces wh>' wore difficult in their uature and might have been dangerous to the peace of both c.^vr.- tries. (Hear, hear ) Had tiao permitted ho would have wished to have stated his viowB at somo '.cngth ; but at this late hour he would not impose upon tho patience of members, further than to otTor a few re- marks on tho fishery clauses of tho Treaty. These clauses of the Treaty, it was agreed on all sides, would affect the Province of Nova Scotia more largely than any other Province iu tho Dominion, and bon. members had expressed the desire that tho interests of that Province should not to be saerilicod. The people of Nova Scotia did not view the arrangement that was proposed ae a sac- rifice of their interests. They were, he be- lieved, largely in favour of accepting tho Treaty, both because of the Imperial inter- ests involved, and because that its provisions would be ailvantageous to themselves. He had, perhaps, no right to speak for tho whole of Nova Scotia ; but for the county which he had the honour to represent, p.nd which was perhaps as largely interested in the fisheries ai any other county of the Do- minion, ho was prepared to say that it was all but unanimous in its favour. How much right that county had to take an interest in the matter might be judged from the fact that her pcDple ownen the large number of 632 boats, employing upwards of 800 men en- gaged in the inshore fisheries, 89 schooners, many of them first class vessels, engaged exclusively in the deep sea fisheries, and em- ploying nearly a thousand men, besides 147 other vessels, some of which were at times partially dependent upon tho fisheries for vmploymont, but there wct« nearly 2,(XI0 men, who with their families derived their living mainly if not wholljr from the fiah- ing business. Tho liihing vesaela of liunenburg County generally fitted on^ in the spring for Labredo"- •^r the Bo"k», returning about th" middle of July v the tiist of August with a fore (A codflsb, •nd then fitted out a aeeond time for the hook anil line mackerel fishing in tho bay. Tho hnii. member for Halifax, who addressed the House a few days ago- (Mr. Power) haa told what elfevt the higii duty on mackerel in tho Mtatt t has had on this honk and lino fishing. The nnit'ber of vessels fitted out for it from Lunenburg ciiuiity has deeroaaeil from sixty to seventy under the Reciprocity Treaty, until last year nut inure than half a dozen ventured to engage iu it, linding tho high duties niu.ie it unprohtablu. lAst year, nearly all th.t fine fleet of vessels, after re- turning from I.abrailur, instea vessels carrying tho British fisg to fish in tho United States waters, it wiiiiliT bo found, was no barren privilege as bail been asserted; for besides the privilege of fish- ing there, which our people niiuht avail theinHclvea of if they choose, we should now build fishing vessels for our neighboui's. 'I'lin fishing masters of Maineand M.issachu8vttB, when they find that th«> can get as good a vessel built iu Lunenburg or Slielliourne or Yarmouth for (n.OUO as they can in (llouccs- tor for t8,(i00, will not bo slow to avail themselves iif the advantage thus ploeeil within their reach, they will nut throw away the extra cost of the vessel on any mere sentiment alwut the flag when tho less cost- ly veSHel will suit their purpose as well, and the flag of their own nation docs not secure to them any special advantages. He con- sidered this a very material point, and he believed that Americana would largely avail themselves of tlin npportun..'y which would thus bo offered of obtaining vessels nt much lens cost than they now paid. (Hear, hear.) He was surprieeclat aomn things in thevery extraordinary speech of tho honourable mem- ber fur Halifax (Mr. est brands of mackerel, No. 1 and No. 2, we had literally no marki^t, except the United States, while for the inferior fish, No. H. we hail also a market there as well as further south. It was possible that there had been eonio purchases in the United States by Halifux merchants, but the in- stances were few, and arose altogether from exceptional circumstances. It was a fact that of tho mackerel catch of 1870, the beat qualities hail been held and sold in the Boston Market, at prices ranging about i^O, and in somo instances as liigh as $35 had been obtained. He dotailcil the circumstances which hail caused o decline in the price ; in consequence of that decline Bonio merchants had held fish ill store, rather than sell at a loss, until they had become deteriorated in quality and al- most unsaleable, and some of these fish, he believed, that had become unfit for the American market bail been purchased for the West Indies. In one instance in 1871 a Halifax merchant hod a vessel to arrive at Boston from the West Indies with a cargo of sugars, and going there to meet his vessel and make arrangements for a return cargo, he found a quantity of thia unsaleable fish that had been a year in store, offered at a Tory low price, and he purchased it for ship- ment to the VVest Indies. That was the substance of the fact upon which the hon. gentlemon had based his statement that tho market of the United States was of little value to us, because the price of fish there was sometimes lower than in Nova Scotia. (Hear, hear.) He must refer briefly to another atato- moni mode by the member for Halifax (Mr. Jones), intendetl to throw a doubt on the value to our people of the fishery clauses of the Treaty, and in which he had im- plied that certain statements made by hig colleague (Mr. Power), were valueless or inaccurate. The latter gentleman had shown that the Magdalen Island herring fishing, which formerly employed a largo nummr of Provincial vessels hod been lost to IS since the abrogation of the Reciprocity Treaty, but argued that we could regain it under the Tr.;»ty of Washington, Mr. Jones differed from hii colleague, and said that that particular brannh of fishing busi- ness had been totally .lestroyed, and waa not now proscout lost year oi tho fishing industry of Nova Scotia. The member for Halifax (Mr. Jones) hail denied this, and stated that the duty on mackerel and herring shipped to the Statel in 1871 waa only about (1)0,000. That was another ot that gentleman's facts that was maiio tn do duty for a misstatement. It waa quite true that tho duty on iiur fish exported to that market last year would only have amnnntcd to about 100,000, but that only pnived 'hat the duty was so nearly pro- hibitory as to prevent tho export of larger quantities. He rcail from a re- turn to show that the voluo of the fish caught in Nova .Scotio lost year amounted to over *i.(X)0,000. Of this quantity thero were 2'JS. I fi2 barrels mackerel, and 20l,U0O barrels herrhig, the duty on which, if shipped to tho States, would be ovek' taSO,0Of); ao that the statement made by tho Prosidont nt tho Privy Council was more than justified by the foots. If there was so small a proportion of this total sold in the States it was because the duty was almost prohibitory. Raraovo tho duty, and tho Custom House returns «f fish shipped to ihat market willshow omuch larger result, Tho member for Halifax had also argued that insteail of admitting the Amcricaus to our fishing grounds, we ought to have enforced the protective policy, and that if that policy had been properly enforced wo might have obtained a renewal of recipro- city. That position was doubly inconsistent, for it was not only contrary to the hon. gen- tlemnn's avowed policy for thelaat two years, but it was contrailictoil by a por- tion of bis argument nov. If his assertion that the number of Amer- ican tiBliiug vessels had increased very largely hi tho last two or three yeora won true, thert that went to prove that under their protec- tive duties they were flourishing in spite of any dilliciUties they might lobor under in consequence of exclusion from our waters. Ilemovo this <;ioat ailvantage they have on their side, and we need not be afraid to re- move any ndvantago we have in the exclu- sive u.ie of our iushore fiHheiics. Our people are not afraid to compete with themonequal terms ; our men are as skilful as theirs, and are willing to admit them to tho privilege of fishing in our waters in exchonge for free ac- cess to their markets. This assertion, that i istead of having a reciprocity in fishing, wo should continuethe exclusionof tho Amer- icans from our waters, was a strange doctrine to come from the man who assumM to be the leader in this House of that party in Nova Scotia that hod denounced the protective policy from the first hour of its inception. With the permission of the House he would reod a few extracts from a newspaper, tho acknowloilged organ of the party for which the hon. gentleman waa supposed to speak, here, and owned and controlled by a gentle* man who was tho leader of that party in tho Local Legislature of the Province. In the month of February, 1870, .uo proteotiv* or national policy waa announced in the House. The hon. member was not then in his place, but on the 24th of that month, the Halifax Morning Chronkle, the organ of hig party, and speaking no doubt, his sentiments, said: — *' Dr. Tupper prnposes that «e drivs tho Americans from our flfihlng aroandn anil protect our uationM pro- du-tsaiul maniuacturw agnltigt tlinlr comtiefltiun, in reven^ fur t' etr repeal to nef^tiate a renewal of the Reciprocity Treaty. This wouitl have beeii some years ngo a policy whkli would recommend Umlt to the coloniea, for then the Injury of the anrotfation of the Treaty waa fresti it our memorlee. Not ao now, how- ever, the flrol (eelin{f of anffor hna passed away, sad people toko Uie sotier tecond tbougrht." And again, on tho 17ih of September : — ■' It li imsffliied by a tew fools, thank hesren they are few, that thia petty apllefulnewt of conduct will cauM the Americans to renew their Reciprocity Treatr. if by thia aiupid ayntem of pretended fishery pn>tec- tiou we •ueowd In irritating the Afflstlcan ii«Oi,le,ar Hul •pinif ■ ot. artjj nam I wl by the abolition of f.'l State.. Thi. itatii- '.) cabt, his sentiments, BXJPr»T^T:MENT TO THE MAIL. jO We drive tho Amoricana irotect our national nro- st tlMlr comiieritl.in, In Wlat« a renewal of the III have beeii aonie years commend tiaclf to the ls, thank hMventher ilnew of conduct wlU iclr Reciprocity Treatf. tended flstaer/ pmtec- e Amerloan peo^'le, sf Ewe liava already aticcseded Inrulnlnf wnianf our owti, iwi> iiijty .^iiil Oi,iigreaa|irohtliMnf fiuntDirrtw with Ihe ;56ol>iiil*iff. If itduea the Domlitlvu wlU be bevyared In 'iwo yean T Huoh, Mr. Speaker, were the views and •pinions hiilil and uxpresseil on this sub- ject, from tho day the liconaing system 4«asod and the protective party loinmenced, ^nwn to tho time of tho sitting of the Joint ,Siiiih Coramiaaiun at Waahin^on, by that S*rty in Nova Mootia of wl.oni the hon, ^nembor for Halifax is tlio auknowlodged ■'inouthpici'o in this llouso. Then the most . lili.-ral troatment of our neighbours was •rgeiidcr it their duty t4) the fluhemieii and other InhalnlanUiiif theatt colonicR, to enter n nifwt Roteinn protest a^inst the aaid flaherlea beliitf tmiiMferred to any foreign ixiwcr, without the oonaent of the people of theaald ColonicH, or being In any other luauner aacrifloed to Iui))«rlal or Canadian Interovta." That resolution passed by a vote of thirty to three. It certainly diil not contain any- thing that, either on the face of it, or when interpr«ted by the viewsthatfor aycar and a half previous ha^l been expresseil by the party who passed it, could be considered aa oondemning the provisions of the Treaty of Washington. Ho (Mr. McD.) contended that all that was demanded by theresolution, waa more than secured by the Treaty. The resolution protested against the tiaheries be- ing sncriHced. They had not lH;en sacriticeil. It protested against tho fisheries being trans- ferred to any foreign power without the con- sent of the peopleof the Colonies. They have not been transferred to any foreign power. They will ba as much our property when tho Treaty goes into effect, as they were when that resolution was passed. The IVeaty iransfers to our neighbonrs no right, no pro- perty in them, but leaves the ownership solely with us ; giving to our neighbonrs not the right, but tho privilege to use them for a term of years, and leaving with us the right to resume the exclusive use of them after those years if it should then seem to be good policy to do so ; and it also gives the right aa re<{nest«d by the resolutions to tho people of the colonies through their representatives in Parliament, to give or withhold their consent to the arrangements that have been made respecting the liaheries. But since that re- solution waa passed by the Nova Scotia As- sembly, an election has been held in that Province. The Treaty was signed on the 8th of May, 1871, and published immediately afterwards. It waa never heard that during the ten days that elapsed between the pub- lishing of the Treaty and the election, any objection to it had been taken at a single hustings in Nova Scotia. It waa well known that on the part of the men supporting the Provincial Uovenuuent at that election, hostility to the Dominion Qovemment was • main feature of their canvass, and it is very certain that if they had felt they conM atrongthsn thuir pO'iniaiiiii.) could not paai by in ailencu. That gentleman had said every annexniionist in Nova Hcotia was in favour of tho Treaty. Thia waa an oxtraurilinary state- ment to coino from that quarter. There wore very fuw aunexatioiiists in Nova Sco- tia; there were a few in Halifax, and there was, or had been lately, an annexation leagtio in that city. It waa a well known fact that among the inemhera of that league tvere some of that hon. gentleman'a intitnate aaiociatea. Its meinliers wore to a man his politicul friends ,'ind supporters, and if atiiong those who supporti a him in his gen- eral political policy there were any who sup- jiorted him in his hostility to the Treaty, they weru to be found among those who were inembors of that annexation league. Yet in the facu of these facts, thu hon. geii- tlunian had the hai-dihood to oasert that tho anncxationiats, and few besides, were in fa- vour of thu Treaty. It has been cimtendeil that in addition to what the Treaty proposes to give us, free markets for our lumber and couT should also have been received in ex- change for the use of our fisheries. Ho (Mr. McD.) gave it as tho opinion of one of the largest coal owners of Nova Scotia that the coal interests did not stitrer and might lie benelitted by the arrangement that the Treaty proposes. The time would cou.e and perhaps would soon come, when tho coal and lumber tluties in thu States would 1)0 reniuvcil as were tho corn duties in England, by force of circuinstaiicea ; and wheu the qucation will bo thus settled, upon its own merits, the settlement will be more permanent, and therefore better fur our lum- ner and coal intereats, than if those artiulea had been made free under the Treaty, only as a mako weight or equivalent for some- thing else that wo were conceding to our neighbours. It may be that a free market for our coal and lumber would not be more than an equivalent for what tho Americans are to receive from us ; but would it be wiso for us on ttiat ground to take tho responsi- bility of rejecting the Treaty, lieject tho Treaty, and wo don't get free markets for our lumber and coal. Reject the Treaty, and those interests are not benefitted, while our fishermen will be deeply injured. On the other hand, in accepting tho Treaty, these coal and lumber interests will be placed in no worse position than they were before, whilethe intertsts of our fi.shermen will be largely benefitted, theinterestsofpeaceand of tho Kinpire promoted, and a guarantee jjiven in thu aiutoablo feeling alreaily result- ing from thu Treaty, that a more liberal policy in their commercial intercourse with us will in tho future be adopted by our neighbours. Had time permitted he (Mr. McI). ) had intended to have spoken of some other features of tho very important ques- tions opened up by the bill under discussion; but at so late an hour in the morning he would not trespass further upon the patience of the House. (Cries of "go on.") He had cnoken only of those features of the measure that more eapeoially affected the Provinces from which he came, and he concluded by saying tliat, looking from a Nova Scotia point of view, and more particularly from a Nova Scotia fisherman's point of view, he should not hesitate in voting against the several amendments that hiul been proposed, and in favour of the bill to give effect to tha Treaty. (Cheers.) On Tuesday, May Utli,— Mr. HARRISON said— Variom opinions have been expressed by the gentlemen who have already addressed the House as to the merits of the Washington Treaty, but in one thing all appear to agree, viz., that the importanrf of the Treaty as to the future of the country cannot be over-rated. Thia must bo my apology for offering some obser- vations to the Hiuse, in tho course of which I may repeat something that has beenalroady said, but I trust I may also bring stimething new to the funil of truth. Tha ili» iiaaion I1.U1 taken a very wide range, iiut 1 always make it a practice, before entering upon a diacuaaioii, to snileavour, if possible, tO as- certain what la tkequeation to be iliacusaed. Tholioverniiiunt havu tntrodiiced a bill, and moved ita aeciind ruailing, to give utlect to certain claiiaea of the Treaty, and in so doing they have brought the subject iMiforu thu HouP'i, and have left the liouao iiiifetteied to 1 ,iru>n ita full iipiniiin 011 ita merits, and tnua tho utniuat freedom of octiiin liss been given. Tina mutton for thu accond nailing of thu bill wan met by an aiiiuud- niciit moved by thu ho", invuiber fur West Duiliani, ill which he states " that before iinict'uiliiig further vith the said bill, Ihia lliiuau fuels bound to declare that wliile lltr Majesty's loyal aubjecla, thu |ii:iiple of Canada would at all tiinoa make any reasim- ablu uMcrillcu in the interesta of this Kinpire, thiiu aru just gniunila for the diasKtiafactiiin pervading thu whole country, at thu luixlu III which our righta have licuii dealt with in the negotialioiia uf Woahiiigton, and thu subaji|uaut proposal at our Uovariuinnt " tliat KngUnd ahould eiidorao a Cana aary to give elFect to tha Treaty of Washing- ton, it la iiiexpet nnly (i)r th* (irfiunt Kkiii, hut for (iitnrn profit uiy provincial fl»hurni»n, irraipeotiv* of NowfounilUnil, thvn amountnil aiihually in valuii to f>-nin fuiir to Hv« niilliiini of dnllara, umployiiig upwanli of W,Ol)0 men a ul hoya, ami pro- viiling • nuriery of hardy ■xanion, which woulti in future make Hritiah Nortli Ameri- ca the predominant maritime iiowrr on tho continent. I entirely •ubmrilHi to thoea opinion!, and 1 aim agrne with thoio nioni- bera who have taken the |Hiaitinn that it i* not the right of any foreign I'ow^r, without our cona«nt, to intcrfrro with three llaheriea. I alto agrue « ith gtintlemrn wiio argiiii that the only right which the people of the Uni- ted Htatea nave to interfere with theae flah- eriea, ia under the Treaty of IHI8. That Treaty waa a conipai^t bewoen two Powera, (•roat Hritain ami the lJiiituid tho United States. While ! aad of ahnt- ting us out fnmi ill eliaiinela of trade, it has tandtMl more than aiiythiog elite to consoli- date our Union, and iiiako us one |H'ii|ile from one ocean to the other. I am aware that it would Iw beiielli'ini to have reiiproial tratlo with tlici United States, but I do not Ih'Iiovu we are likely to get it by begging for it. I.at n> shew to the Americans tlut wo are indejieiident of them, that wo can do without them, and then, though the linaiieial reiiuire- nients nt the United States make it at present out of the question, the day w ill como when itwillbe fur the iulerestuf huth (larties to davo reciprocity in trade ; but, I repeat, that tho dity will not Ihj hastenetl by our continually whining for it. The hon. memlier for Sherbrooke Haid that ho thought the true policy of the Government of this conntry, in regard to the Hsheriea, was tho licensing system, and he much re- gretted the abolition of tlint system. That system was tried and found wanting, and if our GoTernment had continueil it, they would have been found wanting in their duty tu tlieir country. In IHGO th';re were 354 licenses issueil. In 18(17 " 281 " In IH«8 " 50 '• In I8UU " 26 And Hshing in onr waters without leave and without licence forced upon us tho pulicy of exclusion. I have shown as briefly as pos- aiblo the anxious desire that tho people of Great Britain and Onaila hail for establish- ing friendly relations with the people of the United States. I have shown their e^irts to discharge honestly and faithfully their international oblij^ations. 1 pro|H>oe now to look at the other side of the picture, to see whether we wero mot in a correa- ponding spirit by the people of the United States. Ihe Keniun question has cropped up again and again, and is a raro question becauHO the people of this country as a unit feel that the Imperial Goveniment have not dealt as they ought to have dene with this question. I was sorry to hear the Secretary of State for tho rrovinecs use lan- guaj/o which might be construed as n pal- liation for the crimes of those men. I do not think ho intended to do so, and was glad to hoar him at once renounce any such lan- guage. In 1805, wliUe we were strugglingto do '^1 wo could to have a gmid feeluig iio- tween the two countries-whilu Great Bri- tain was doing all she could to bring about and continue that good feiling—the Fenian organization was warmed into life in the United States. The object of the Fenians was known to everybody, there was no secrecy about it — their avowed intention was to attack Canada, a country which had al- ways discharged its duty properly to tho United States— to attack Canada, a country in no manner concerned in the disputes be- tween Englanil and Ireland. They wero drilled in open day, uniformed, and command- ed by American ofBcers, and everything possible was done to bring upon them tho influonco of the Government of tlio United •States, and what did that Government do? Nothing at all, or if anything, it encourageind con- voyed overland. This was tho way in which our liberality in regard to tho canals was met. (Hear, hear.) But yiiiir flovernment is not to be blamed, for the omission by B. itaiii to press these Fonian claims, I o to lliiil that the aid of that Government was loyally given, and they anticipate that tho avowed authors of these outrages, who are now said to be in the hands of the United States au- thorities, will receive such condign punish- ment as this wanton attack upon the peace of a neighliouring and friendly state deserves. It is not often in the liistory of civilized nations that a country has suffered from an attack so gratuitous and unjustifiable as that which has been made upon tho Dominion, and I can assure you that theQueen, together with the Parliament and people of this coun- try, cordially lymftalhize witn the 'innoynnce which it has caused, and admire the spirit with which it has been repelled." There is no allegation there that they had demanded reparation for tho past. In July, 1870, our Government were forced to say — "The Com- mitteoof the Privy Council ha.'e already stated their views regarding this outrage, in their minute of the 2nd mt. , a copy which they requested your Excellency to transmit to the Secretary of State ; and lite painful duly is now imposed upon them of requesting your Excellency to express to I^ord Granville, their unfeigned regret at laamiiig from his dispatch that Her Majesty's Government, instead of demanding reiiaration from the Government of the United States, for the grievous out- rages to which they have have neen subject- ed, have contented themselves with urging that government to counteract such move- ment.s in future h} all means in their power ; a demand which, lo doubt, has already been made on more tha.i one occpsion, in 18(10, and subsequently without any satisfactory re- sult. The Ciommittee on the Privy Council, in venturing to remonstrate against tho communication described by Earl Granville as having been made by the United States Government on the occasiiu of the late out- rage, would beg to refer toT.is lordship's own language in which they entirely concur." Earl Granville observes, — " It- is not often in the history of civilized nations that » country has BiiHtrnd from an attai'k aoKratu itiiiia anil ui jnstt .lafd* as that whieu hn* liaan maiH 0.1 tho lh>niinlon." To this th. Coniinittaa >' C'ouneil feel it their duty t.> Slid, tliitt t/vy tifllfi'r that titft •■ i* nti prrffiUv in thr hiMory uf rivili.-^l nationn for a f/rtut /mwrr HU1-U OA ihfiti liviliiin mihnnttiufi to nth outrnyrM on Hm liiyal tnihifflM wtthout making/ a dfinnnil for ailrijUiilr rf/iarnllim. Tin (Viiiiiiiitton of the Privy Council feel it then- duty to express very strongly to Voar Kxenlleney for the information of Har Majesty's Governnient. the deep sense entertained by the peopln of tho Do niinioh III all shades of iwirty, iluit ih'y hnf nut Yfi'rivfd from llrr Mujttity'n IJovrrnmeni tliitt mififtort ftnil ffrotfrtiim tritirh, an toy,il nulijeitit Iff llfr Mt^ifMty, lliry luttv ii nottt In rlnitn.'^ The Govsr:!**ieMt that useil tliii language ia not deserving of eenniire, but of praise. (('Iii'era ) In 1870 oui Onveriiiiient not only niail^ tli(.> prot'-sts tu which I huvi- refarroil, but sent roatiiiastar-Oeiieral Camp bell to Englanil, if pisiailile, to soeurti pro- tection for lis, anil the refHirt of that gentle- man I'oiitaina aoinoiliing to whirh I woiiM Iiai'ticularly call the attention of the Housi' lis lirst demand npuii the liniierial Govern ment was that the Imperial (fuvenimenl should make a demanil U|Hm thr United iStates for indemnity for the pant and protection for tho future ; failing tliat, that the Empire sbiiuM join with Canada in meeting the losses. I shall quote an extract from his n-port of hiH niisHlon, " the Fenian losses wore not of our creating, but grew out of real or imaginary wroiigy that the Empire hail in the past in- flicted cm Ireland, and we were fighting battles which wero not our own, but those of tho Empire. Wo wero quite rcaily as ,i portion of the Empire to bear onr share o! these or any other troubles in which tin country might be involved, but it was not fair that we should be allowed to sutler atotn all tho losses and conse(|iieneeH of the Imiierial acts, or |>ollcy wliicli were com- plained ut, and I strongly urged that for thi' J lost and the future, hIiouIiI any further ''enian troublea arise, the Empire, as a wholi' should bear the burden of resisting sueli attack, and that Canada should only contribute as a imrtlon of the Empire Tho proposition thus made in IH,'0, was I beliive, looked U[Hm at the t\me as a fair and reasonable one, and although tho re|Kirt had been published and in the hands of mem- bers fur some time past. 1 am not aware that any ]wrsoii has over found fault with the alternative proposition of the Postmaster General. The Imperial Government declined the first and has oidy recently acceiled to tho second alteniative. Our Governnient earnestly pressed the Fenian question in the hope that the United Status would not only malte some reparation fur the past, but do something towards preventing raids in the future. How wero we met ? By tho Speech of President Grant in December 1870. That spoocb was made for election purnoses. It was an election cry, and many gentlemen from Untario knew what that meant. (Laughter.) It was made to captivate the ears of those who heard it, and to get them to support the party who gave it. I think that every man in C^nnada who road that speech did so with feelings of indignation. 'Iho President stated "that the course pur- sued by the Canadian authorities towards thelishermen of tho United States, during tho past season has not lieen marked hy friei.dly feehng." I am sure that any man reading the oon'eapondenec will see that every effort was mode hy the Canadian Govern- ment to establish friendly feelings with the United States — while endeavouring to protect our just rights we gave the utmost liberties to our neighbours. We passed laws for the protection of our fisheries which we bad a perfect right to do. We executed theae laws in a manner intended to give the least poasiblo offence to those against whom they wore designed to operate. So loiij' ,is there was any pretence of respecting the I'censing system we continueil it. When it beiame plain that it only encouraged the people of the United States to violate onr territorial ri ;hts wo adopted tho policy of entire exolu- aion. And what do wo find in this precious speech of President Grant? The President intimated that should tho authorities of Canada attempt to enforce the act which we had a perfect right to pass for the protection of our own property it would become his duty— to do what! "TotiUte such steps as may be necessary to protect tho rights of the citizens of the Unitod States." Now what were tho "rights " of the citizens of the Unit*d Stst« ! The only rights they had attemptei' to exercise up to that time wero the right to invade our territory and the right to fish in our wsten — the right to moke incursions into our country in the west, lo ghoot down onr I I tiKli 1.1 L. 111. pOHll of thro thm thi i ,. iconn f'f the Vltoi ■I't'^wilh •Ml sur*i*Lii:Mii:^T to thk ivlail. SI from »n attack no gratg. ■KIk aa that wlilvh Iim hmilnldn." To thia tlio il fe«.| it their duty to , I/hiI lliit . U n■ a i/rriil ItrUiilH init>miili»g to nirli mdijirU u;lh(»U miiltln/ '7M11/1' rfiminliim. Th.' I'rivy t'lmncil foel it «pruaa very atronglv y for the lafitrmatlni, Ooveriinii'nt, th« ilm^i, y fho luMiplii of th() III, uf imrty, ihal llin/ h,u. ■!• mujruljl'tt (luVrrnmriil olnliiin vhirh, aa Uiyol 'III, lliiil /><•'■'' II rinht 1,1 irr-'iMit that UHwl thin ■viiig (if ccnmirc, but ii( In 1870 our Oiivuriiiiioiit iroti'Mtn to which 1 httvi, •tiiiiwtar-Ot'ioiral ('ainii IKWHiblo, to auuurp pro- 10 re|)ort of tlint Rtiiith'- iin(t to which I woulil attciitiiin of the Houac 11 tliii Iiniivnal (iovoni liii|ierial (lovuriimeiit ilvmanil n|ion thi: iiiilemiiity for thii n for tlio future ; thu Knipiro ahoulil ri innutiiig thii loiaaa. I ut from hia n'i)ort of bin 11 loHBua woro nut of ouj ut of roal or imaginary piru had in the p»«t in- anil wo wnni Hglitin({ )t our own, but thuao of veto ijuito niaily aa n re to boar our aharo of troublcB in which thi ivolved, but it waa not ) allowed to aull'er atmu conscquouvva of the liey which wcr« com- iiglv urucd that for the , aliould any furtlier tlio Kmpire, oa a whole rden of reaiatint; audi Caniula Bhonld only ■tion of the Empiro. madu in IN.'O, waa I I ut tho Itmo aa a fair nd olthongh the rejHirt id in tho handa of mem- ■t, I am not aware that found fault with thu in of the I'oatmaater al Oovemment declined y recently acceded to •0. Our Oovernmont Fenian question in the Statua would not only 1 for the paat, but do revontiuff raids in the i met ? By tho Speech in December 1870. ) for election purpoaea. , and many guntlomen »r what that meant, lado to captivate the •d it, and to get them ^lio gave it. I think uada who road that elinga of indignation, "that the course pur- I authoritiea towards lited States, during tho en marked by frie;.dly liat any man reading II SCO that every effort Canadian (Jovem- friendly feelings ' — while endeavouring its we gave the utmost )urs. We paaaed laws ur fisheries which we lo. We executed these ded to give tho least le against whom they kte. So lon^' ,ta there ispeoting tho I'cenaing it. When it became urapd the people of violate our territorial policy of entire ex.:!lu- find in this precious ant? ited that should the .ttempt to enforce the ■feet right to pass for fm property it would lo what? "To take necessary to protect lizens of the United 'ere the "rights" of ed States ? The only teu to exercise up to right to invade our to fish in our waten — incursions into our •0 (hoot down our l]>e«plu, and to do |itiil our p'nii«rty ; tha [riuht to cimin iutu our watara in tha eaut and Itala Huh wliiiui'vvr they < Hikkii ThtMwera itlMi rigtita which they cUinuMl to bii 111 a ll^ttion to »««rcia«. (Kear, hiar I I know °et uo Jiiat flights that wtiru deiiivd tlifiii 1 wii wer»i willing ti> grant them every- thing to which they were entitled, but fthey wore not willing, wliilo putting forth idaiina for theiimelv. ,«, tit re- gugiiiite our righta, (or lii'm we have the I'laaidsnt'a worda that if we attauptwl to enfiirca an act^ whiuh we went atrictly 'witliiii our rights in poauiiig, it would lie hia "duty to take mu'li a^e^ia aa inay be necea- . amy to pri>tect the righte of uitiaiitw of tho I'tiituil Htatea." WuU, sir, this deularation fjocn homo to KiigUiid. Thu people of Kng and, wiio are accustoined to look at every- thing with all hoiMiat eye, who linow nnthiiiu - al leaal the higher ami butter claaMW of them— of trickery and uhieaiiury— thought it waa an oarueat uxpreaaion of a real intention. Thuy hull no idea of what wax meant by an "eleutiou cry " ill America. 'Ihiiy tliought the t'rnaideiit'a worda were sincere. But tliiiikingao, and receiving his nieasage in that atiiMu, It would. III my opiiiiuii, have lieen much more digiiilied on their part 011 thu part III their government— if tliey had not thuniNelves opened negotiations with the United States. They hail done uo wrong ; we bad uoiio 110 wroug ; »e had simply exercised our rights in a way that waa perfectly competent for iia to do; •nil that >>eing the case, if thu people of the XJiiited Stutu-> huii any claim Vi put forward, if they wnUied to share u> tliuse righta and acquire a portion of our territi rial pnvilegea, they, and not ICngland, alio' lid hava com- menced negotiatioua to 'l.an end, (Heal', hear.) However, we will not quarrel about that, for, after all, tlie piirpoao waa a laudable one, and although it might have bean more digniliud to have pur- aued a different, it waa not discre- ditable to the people of Ell) 'and that they twik the courae they did. This nicssage, then, leail to the negotiations; and here I may aay that I tlioroughly agree with the Fiuanoe Minister when he said that, looking to the correapoiidence which iiiitiateil those negutiutions, it was clear that the Fenian questiou should luivu been hehl to have been included in them. It waa auioiig the qiiesa tionsthat hail disturbed the friendly 1 olations of the two countries. (Hear, bear.) The letter of the SiGth of January, 1871, from Sir Udward Thornton to Mr. Fish, to w) h ruferenc 3 baa so often been mule, was tho letter which opuned these negotiatioua. It is obvioua U])ou reading it that tho tlatesmen of Kngland were anxious to huve a friendly relationship with the government aiul people of the United States ; that the feelings which had before existed should not be continued, but give way to a better atato of things ; and tlie letter proposed that the iriendl^ rela- tions which it was desired to establish should be cemeated by a complete understanding between the two nations upon all points ( . dif- ference between thciii. How could a complete understanding be come to if there were things omitted from tho negotiations which had given rise to the misunderstandings? The letter is exulicit upon this |)oint, for it says that Her Majesty s (iovurumcnt deem it of importance "that a friendly and com- plete understanding should be come to be- tween the two (lovcnimeuts as to the extent of tlie rights which belong to the citizens of tho United States and Her Majesty's subjecta respectively, with reference to the Fisheries on the coast of Her Majesty's possessions in North America, and cu to any other ijutal'mns bftumtn thfm which affect tlie relntimm of the United StnteH touHirflsthoM poitaessions." Now, at that time there waa not only the fishery question but the Fenian ({uestion atrecting tne relations of that country towards the British possessions. (Hear, hear.) The anxiety on the part of England was to have all questions settled which -alTected the relations. I think that oa between nationa it is the same as between individuals, the true way to bring about and raaiutaia frieudly relations ia to do that whiob will secure the reapect of each for the other; it «. man or a nation does anything to lower him- self in tho estimation of othere, instead of aeouring friendly relations he or it secures just tho reverse. I think there is a point to which a Government may go in the tfesire to secure friendly relations when magnanimity becomes ahame, when the Government in- sults its own honour and the honour of the people it representa, when it degrades itsel. by humiliation and makes itself contemptible in the eyes of the power with which it may be treating. (Hear, hear.) Whether the English Government reached that point or not, I shall leave others to judge after a nar- rative of the (acts. To proceed : The propo- sition on the part of the Imperial Qfivern- manl waa that 11// <|uastioiis alfretiiig the (riaiidly relations lirtwann (treat IMtatn and the lliiitnd Htatva, or lathar between the Hi itiih iMis«i>i,Niniia and the t'liitid Slidi-. should Ihi nettled. S^ hnt reply is ii>kI>' I'V tha United Htates to this pro|i ' !•<> they look back over the qiiaatiniia that had arisen in the pa settled ouept the Fenian qiientioii? l>o tlii'y refuse to ai> eept thu oiler ill its broailuiit seiiNu, atiu at- tempt to narrow it down ti> smaller diniuu. Bioiis ? No, on the umitiory tliev auk to en- Urgu it; and Mr Fiah writes Iw k to siiy that, while ogiieiiig entirely with tnu pronn- situiii that thorn suould be a friendly uiiileratandiiig upon uU quusUoiiH eoii- ceniiiig the Uiiituil Statia aud thu lirilisli poaau-sions, the I'resideiit is of the opiiiioii "that without the adjustinuiit of a chisa of ijuestioiis not ailudud tii in vnur (Sir Kdwaid 'I'homton'j) note"- that eluas being other than questions airuuting thu friendly relutioiia of the Uuitinl States with thu llritisli posites- siiiiiB -' "the propoHud High i'oiiiiiiission would fail to establish thu |ieriiianent rela- tions and the sincurit, aiibntantial aud lasting friendship between the two (iovornments, which, iu common with her Majeaty's Gov- eriimeiit, he desires should prevail. ' it ap- pears from this that there were t vo classes ot iiuostioiis wliieli it was pro]Hmed 1 1 ileal withi tho lli-st class being, local quextiiius mora par ticulorly atlccting the ibitish pos- sessions — the Fisheries, the Fenian raida and others ~~ and tlie secfiud claas being lm|ierial questions alluct- iiig the whole Knipire, such aa the (question of the AttiOama claims, Thu Imperial (lovemment agrees to this prcposeil enlargement -agrees that all questions be- tween the two iiatioMS should be iliscussed ; not one question, mark you, but every iiues* tioi! that had uaimuil ddlieult" in thu oust, " provided that all other claims, both of Hritiah aubiucts and citizens of *ho Uintuil States, arising leit of acta coniuiittud during the recent civil war in this ciiuiitry, are simi- larly refer,'' d to the same (.'ommission. " I'his proposition 'i aeceptud by tho United States. Now, sir, it will be seen that tlin object of this reference was to sieurefrie: dly rulutious. Friendly rolatiov.tf could not be suuured without a settlemeiio of the questions that bad been irritating the feelings of tho people of both cuiiiitries in thu jiast. What was includeil in these questions ? The Feniou question and thu lisheryeuestionhiulhothbeen irritating questions iu the paat. These were questions relating to the British poanessioiia and uUected the fri'iiilly relations between them and the Uuitem- luissionurs wouhl iliapoae of it, not aa law- yers ii|Hiii legal grniiiidM, but as politiciaiia uiHiii politieargniiiuda. (Hear, hear.) Then aa to the Ht. lAWisneii, Kngland hail eon- tended -eonsisteutly ami iiersiateutly non- feuded - that that |Kirtioa of the river whieh ran lietwueii ('aiiailiaii shores was nut a high- way '.11 the a<>nsu claimed by the United State*. She always refused to admit that it was a highway, but we llnii her in these instructions, agniu " mag- iionimmialy" waivii g that point also. " Her Majeaty's Govoriiuient," Lordtlranvillusays, "are nevertheless now willing to admit the priiieiiilaof tha navigation of tlie St. Iiaw- ruiK^e iieing free to th 1 citinena of the Unitsil States, subject to such tefore the Commission will, in all probability, prejudice our poai- tiou in the minds of the Commissioners. An expression of regret seenm to involve the concession that uiero is something wrong. Eiul'ud always contended that tnere waa notniug wrong in he;- conduct, and in main- taining that grouud 1 think alie wpa right. ( Hear, hear. ) A great deU has been said. Sir, in the cou*'se of the correspondence and negotiations bttweon Groat Britain and the United States, about tho necessity of estab- lishing new aud iinnroved rules of maritime law. I find it stated in the instructions U|>on this point, that " it would be desirable to take tnia opportunity to consider whether it might not be in the interest of both Great Britain and the United States to lay down certain rules of international comity iu regard to the obligations of maritiiao neutrality, not only to bo acknowledged for observance m their future relations, but to be recommended for adop- tion to the other maritime powers." Hero there is a proposition on the part of tho Brit- ish Government to establish now montimo rules for the cond'ict of Englana and the United States, and if possibls to aecure tho adoption of these nilbs by other maritime powers. Knglanil at that tune coiJd snrely nave hod no intention to be bouud by a rule uf conduct not in existence when the transactions occurred of which the United States made complaint. I quite agree \ith liinited jHiwers, and as such were lesiMinsilile to the Iniiierial siithonty Thar hall no iniwer to aot < I tlismselvaa, th • had no (reeilom of autlonj and all that they did, or mntemplated doing, waa r«(erred, or to b« rofsrnid, to Kngland. They were the sar- vai ts; Kngland waa the master V ith limited instruetions. It ddhiws that, U thar* ia anything wrong iu tha Treaty- anything coiuoiitted which ought diina—aiiything oinittad have lieen inserted - the niMit la alone rearonslble. sayi~" Her Majesty's G'>\«rnment request that if *he mode of dealing with auy partieiilar matter whiuh you may b« disposed to agree to shouhl vary nialerialiy from the manner o aettlemant, to whieh I nave informed you Her Majeaty's Government are prepared U once to assent, ^r in case of any disagreement of importaao* ucuurring between yourselves and tha Amar- lean High I'oiiiiuissionera, you should at oiiue report by telegraph and await further instructions.' An attempt to hold one of the Conunissionera respousibla, ia opan not only to the objaetinn that hr waa on* of flv* Commissioners, but also to the objecthin that he was not at liberty to act contrary to the expressed wishes of the authority iioin whom he derivsd hia oommisaion tu aot. (Haar, hear. ) Ami here, Sir, I wish to draw your attention, and the attention of tha Hoai|«, to a remarkable fact that I disoovar on looking at the commissions laaned upon the appomtment of the t'rnimiaaiooara— the fact that there ia a diffarcnoe between the authority given by the Imperial Governi lent to ita Commisaionera and tne authority given by the Governmunt uf the United .Htutsa to those who represented it. The CommJa- sinners essentially differ. The Imperial I um- missioii gives to ita CoiuniiHsinnera 'all uiiiiiner uf powei and authority to treat, adjust and conclude with the United States any treaty tha*. may tend to tl e alHive man> tinna4 end." Full iHiwer ia thus apparently given to the Con.misaionani to disjuss and determinu, subject to the control of the Imperial Government all questions intended by "- < jorreaiiondence to he referred tothcin, 'Ina Commission given by thu people of the ITnited Statea to their Comtmaaiouer* waa not in that form, it waa in thisi— The United States Goveniment appointed curtain paraona " to be Commissionara on the part uf the United States, in a Joint High (Jommission between the United Statea and Great Britain; empowering them jointly and aeverally to meet the British Commissionen, and with them to treat and diauuss the uiwle of settle- ment of the different questions which fhall come before the mid Joint Hif/h Vomminiion." There aeema to have been a limitation in the Commisaion of the United states which waa not in the British Commission. The British ('nmmission was to discuss all questiona af- fecting the frienilly relations, the Ccumia- sion to the United States Commiaaionera was only to diaouss auoh questions aa the Oo- vemment of that conntry might bring before thu Commission. Afterwards we found what use was made of that limitation by the United Statea Commissioners. It paved the way for the subse'inent rejec- tion of tho Fenian claims. The t/ommission- crs, speaking of the Fenian question, aoid, among other things we cannot consider it, because it haa not been referred to us by our Government. In the letter of the 16th Feb., 1871, from Lord Kimberley to Lord Lisgar, we find still further evidence of the desire of England to concede a great many points in order to aecur* those friendly relations. For inatance, in speaking of the Fishery question, it states : — " Tiie exclusion of American fisherman from resorting to Canadian ports, except for the purpose of shelter, and of repairing dam- Bgea therein, of purchasing wood and of ob- taining wuter, might be warranted by the letter of the Treaty of 1818, and by the terms of the Imperial Act, 69, Geo. 3, cap. 38, but Her Majeaty's Government feel bound to state that i' seems to them an ex- treme measure — incousistent with tho general policy of Empire, and they are disposed to concede this point to the United States Oov- ermnent." An extreme mea»ure, Mr. Speaker, to insist upon tha terms of her own oargain for the protection of her own territory II And the English Oovemmant expressed a willingness that this should be discussed and settled I This, however, it is said, wus done for tha sake of securing the much desired friendly relatiom. Relations ao secured may be friendly, but the friendship ia all on one side. It cannot be leciprocal. (Langhter.) I do not understand that any objection bat 7 "^ SUPPLEMENT TO THE MAIL. ml been mado on the part of gentlemen opposite (itiior to the Qompoaitioii of thin Comjiiiision, or to tlifc ability, or want of ability, or dis- oretioii on the part of any of the Commia- aluiivrs. Tliia House iiad an opportunity to Pran»unce thiH opinion, be'ore the Hon, remicr went to VVaaUngtoi , on the occa- (ton uf the motiuii of the hoo. member for Shorbmoke. And my hon. friend, the mem- ber for Woat Durham, on that occasio.. aied thia laiiguuge : — " The question was whether wo ought to do or say anything which might in the slight- est deuroe cmbnrr.,M ui impede tb.o course of the Aaministration Wit'.i regard to the mat- ters upon whiuh thoy had assumed respon- sibility. His opinion was that they should not by ' oice, vote or record, do anything of the kind." So that the House not only approved of the appointment of the Commission, but allowed tlie Premier of the Government to ' ) \>} an almost unanfmous feelimi of the House without ar" limit&tior. of any kind on his actions, although it -vas known he was ii: tho minority on the Com mission. The Comi .lasionei-s met at Wash- ington and exchanged Commissions. Whe- ther they read each other's Commission or not .' do not iinow. Probably they were under the belief that they mot o". equal tsrms terms. But, Sir, they did not meet on e ^ual. While the Commissionera of Graat Britain •mere there to settle all questions, the Com- missioners of the United States were there to settle only such question r as were refer- red to them by their Government. Besides there was this, that while the TYsaty as to many of its provisions would be binding on the Government of Great Britain, from the date it was signed it was not binding as to any of its provisions on the people of the United States, till ratified by the Govern- mentof thatcountry. Meeting on thoseterms it was not remarkable that there should be a disagreement between the two classes of ConmuBsiouera before they went very far in their deliberations. Now, what was done 7 1 shall eiideavour as briefly wd cleanly as possible to take up the ditlere.ott facto agnement, to which I have beforu alluded, J^iry objectionable. Let me give an example of the working of such a vicious rule. During the war between Prussia and France, arms were exported from Great Britain to Franco. Thoy were export- ed as articles of commerce. Prussia found fault with Great Britain for vhcse exporta- tion!!. Great Britain contendcn that she had a right to sell these arms as she was doing ; that there was nothing in Internationa! Law ',;. prevent it, ai'd theicforeshe refused toad- mit that she had done wrong. Suppose a difticulty were now to arise between Pnixsia and Kngland, and England were to say, "It is true that when we sold those aims according to our views of international law there was notl iug wrong, but we now admit that it was con- trary toour rules as now Ir.id down to sell those arms, and we will have our conduct of 1870 judged by the rules of 1872." Where would Great Britain be in an arbitrati >n of that kind? She would be of course in the wrong — ?iot wrong when she did the act, hut wrong by the law afterwards laid down for her guidance, not in the future but in the past. (Clioei's. ) Under such a principle the weaker power will bo called upon to submi. to the stronger, I do not say th:' ^ Bri'.ain is a weak power. Far bo it from n ' to say. but she IS now under weak oomi: (Hear, hear.) Some people have argued that we have gained a great deal by tue establishment of this rule of "due diligence" — that it will pre- vent Fenian raids in iuture. Does it apply to Fenian raids at all? It doe* not. The nile that is laid down is as follows: — ' 'That a neutral Government is bound, first, to use due diliijence m prevent the fitting out, arming, or equipping, within its jurisdiction, of ati^' isMiel wnich it has reasonable ground to believe is iiitend.id to cruise or carry on war against a power with which it is at peace; and also to use like diligence to pre- vent the departure from its juriudiction of any vtaael intended to cruise or carry on war as above, such vessel having been specially adapted, in whole or in part, within such ju- rismction, to warlike use. Sccoiii," "Not to permit or suffer eithar belii,-^>'eut to inrJke use of its ports or waters as the base qf naval operatimis against the other, or for the purpose of the renewal or augmentation of military supplies or arms, or tho recruitment of men. Thi-dly. "To exercise due diligence in its own ports or wateis, and as to all personi withm its jurisdiction, t-< prevent any viola- tion of theforegoivg obUgationi and duties." It is restricted entirely to the escape of i)e«)e^. It has nothing to say to the escape of men. It does not at all apply to the Fenian raids. We are not therefore to be i;onsoled with the idea that this ex post facto agreem'!nt thir sacrifice o' sound legal prin- ciple is at all calculated in the future to pre' vent Funian raids. (Hear, hear.) We find that the Fenian question was brought up. Our Commissioners very pro- perly pressed the Fenian claims a* coming within the subjects indicated by Sir Edward Thornton's letter. V\e saw the answer to that on the part of the Umted States Com- mi?' Before the recess, I had been criticising those portions of the T caty relating to ''.lie Alabama claim, and iiujdentally referred to the Fenian claims. I pointed out what ap- peared to mo to be the sacrifices which Great Britain had m.ide : first, in her apology or exprassicn of regret tc a Government that excluded the I .iniun question from c.na'der- ation; andseoondlj, In laying down an ex pust facto rule of a most objectionable kind. It may be iui. that these sacrifices are rjorely of n sentimental diaraoter, bitGrsat Britain, in all probability, will bo called upon to make sacrifices of a material char- acter also, and that to a very largo amount. While, however, I make these criticisms, I do not wish as a Canadian, to be understood as harshly judging the Mothor Country. (Hear, hear.) We must noli lose sight of the fact, that the sacrifices, whatever their na- ture, were, in all probability, prompted by con- sideration for our own country. When we look at the powsr and magnitude of Great Britain, and her high position among the na- tions of the world, we cannot but come to the conclusion that these sicrifices were made out of consideration for Canada, which in the event of wai', would be the battle gro'tnd of the contending pu-.Tera. Besides as to any material sacrifioe that may bt made under an awar J in the Alabama mat- ter, ve shall not have to contribute one cent. These sacrifices as made are acts of commission. Bat there was au omission of which Canada has a right to complain, and which she cai iot overlook, and that is the with- drawal i (the F«rian claims. The Imperial Government expressed the iiOpe that the United Statec Government won'd loyally carry out their International obligations, and would punish with c jndign punishment any guilty persons who infringed those Inter- national rules. That expression of hope woi. fruitless. The raid of 1866 was led by a man, who, though arrested, was imme- diately discharged without trial. Tho raid of IS?') was led by the same man, and though he was arrested and convicted, was afterwards ;; ardoned. The same man ap- peare not disparage I. If I am asked why these claims are not included in the settlement, I can only s.iy fr.i'.ikly thit it is because we wore unkbie to inclndo thein, and because wo did .lot thjiU it right to sacrifice and aban- don the whole of these extensive ari^nae- mcnt- becau 6 we were unable to bring within thiir Hoopethat singleaiid comparative insig- nitcant point," For these reasons Great Britain has OKreed t" assist us to bear the expenditure to which we were put, and the form in which y/e ro- ceivi this assistance imparts to it a most libersl character; for while the ratepayurs of England pay nothing whatever, it is 'of the greatest possible gain lo us. It is not merely the fact that it saves us a largo amount of money in borrowing the amount . actually guaranteed, but it onablcs us to floats t' e re- mainder of the loan wo require on Jinch bettor terms than wo otberwiso could have done— and in addition to all this, there is J moral support^for it sin ws that Eng- land, so far from desiring that c ooimection between herselt and Canada ehoiild cease, desires that it shonlt' continue— and she gives to our great entotpriae-, the building of our Intercolonial Railway, and tho en- largement of our canals, both her moral and her material aid. It will be remembered that tho Govern- ment were blamed by gentlemen opposite on a previous occasion, for not rendering to the Imperial Governineni an account fur the losses sustained in consequence of the Fenian raids, and th'> same gentlemen now blame them for obtaiuing money in compensation for those losses. No doubt it would have been more satia- faotory to us if we could have received some apology from tho Government of the United States for the occurrences of the pest, and some undertaking that there should be no recurrences of them in the futare— but that upology and assurance can only be obtained through the Government of Great Britam — but thatGovemmentdeeB not choose at present to press our claim, bat has decid- ed that we sliall not lose thereby. OurGovemment in this, as in other things, did all they could, need every exertion to m- duce Great Britain to press our claim— but, tliongh tho claim is closed is between Great Britain and Canada, it is still open as be- tween Ureat Britain and the United States. The arrangement between QrMt Britain and Canadr. b, however, alike honourable to both. It is objected that we have no guar- antee for ' future, and no assnranoe Ubat there ma^ not be a recurrence of the griev- ances of which we complain. No doubt that the Imperial Government has, in the p.%st, and for reasons I hare already stated, l>«en slow to act — but I have not arriveil at the conclusion thnt the Imperial power is io a morbund state. The men who now direct the destinies of the Empire will not do bo ^- ways. I have still faith that the hsarts of tho Imperial people are in the right place, and that in the event of a change of Govern- ment our safety and our honour will be alike respected and protected. If, howe^fer, t,-entlcmen opposite think that theio \r' no protection in the BritiUi flag, th» only (..ternative, in t'jeir view, is to seek another flag. We might have the flag of the United States— tho Stars and Stripes. (No, no.) Well then, we can have the flag ot Independence. (No, no.) Well then, we can have tho flag of the great Liberal party of Outario. (Laughter.) If we have' the latter, there would be no scarcity of mottoes — " No Popery" for instance; "No Separate Schools," ."No Orangemen," "No Coali- tions," " No Governments but Grit Govern- ments," 'No enlargement of our Canals." ( Laughter. ) There will b« plenty of mottoes for that flag; but I do not think that the people of the Dominion d,. erve it, — nor do I think that the people of Ontario will long e'uiure it. I, however, recognize the propriety of the assertion that may be made, that it is not tho Govemmest ot Ontario, but the Gov- ernment of the Dominion, with which we fiave to deal on the present ocos- siun. There is a vote of cer.sure proposed to be passed on this Oovemuent. What is this Government ? It is the Govern- ment that has mado our Dominiou what it ii to-day. It truly represente the party of progress. They have d^e moi-e in flvs years than perhaps any other power hai done in fifty years. (Cheers. ) Then there is the party in opposition. What have thoy done ? Tiiey have opposed everything the Government attempted to do, and while we call our Government the partjy of progress, wo must call the Opposition the patty of ob- struction. The greate" part of what haa been accomplished sinOo Confederation ha* been accomplished in spite of gentleiJien opposite. (Cheers. ) I now, however, pais to another porMon of the Treaty — the navigation ef t' ^ SI Lawrence, So far as that river foi the CO ■■ 00 ■*/ m _' th STJFF>TL.EME]SrT TO THE MAIL. 23 idothem, «ndbeo»n«owo M to saorifloo and »ban- theso extensive lu-range- ire unable to hring within loaiid oompurative inaig- Oreat Britain has attreed he expenditure to which le form in whicli vfe ro. > nnnnrts to it a most Willie the ratepayurs of g whatever, it is of the to us. It it not merely es U3 n Urgo amount of ! the amount . actually aWea ua to floats t" e ro. a wo require on jiuch wo otherwiso could edition to all this, there ■for it uli'wsthatEiig. "ing that , e connection C/'anada nhodld cease, lit' continue— and she utorjirise-, the building Ituilway, and the en- ds, both her moral and ered that theOoiom- gentlemen opposite on or not rendering to the i an account fur the sequence of the Fenian gentlemen now blame loney in compensation have been more satis- iild have received some ernmont of the United once* of the pust, and at there should be no n the future— but that ance can only be Government of Qreat niment daes not choose claim, but has decid. >8e thereby. ;hi9, as in other things, d every exertion to in. press our darim— but, ised IS between Groat ! is still open as bc- ind the United Siates. ■een Great iJritain and alike honourable to we have no guar- ad no assurance that lurrence of thegrisv- plain. No doubt that snt has, in the past, already stated, been e not arrived at the perial power is io a men who now direct nire will not do so al- n that the hearts of « in the right place, f a change of Oovem- onr honour will be itccted. en oppositii think that > the firitiUi fl.ig, ths eir view, is to seek it have the flag of the rs and Stripes. (No, an have the fUg of 0.) Well then, we great Liberal p_arty '■) If we have' the scarcity of mottoes ance; "No Separate emen," "No Coali- its but Grit Govern- ent of our Canals." be plenty of mottoes not think that the L wve it,— nor do I )f Ontario will long the propriety of the made, that it is not ario, but the Oov- nion, with which the present (icoa> vote of cer.sura 1 this Ooveminentt t ? It is the Govern- Dominion what it i* isents the party of tyie moi-e in five y other power has eers.) Then there What have they led everything the > do, and while we party of progress, ion the party of ob- part of what hai Confederation has pite of gtntlauien o another portion igation ef t' ' 81 •t river f«i tlui boundary between the two countries there can be no question as to its being a highway common to both, and the ' -"ubt only ariaes when it coKjea to bo such n lundiry, and runs entiroh within Canadian i^. itory. Ihe pcoplo of tho United Statv.^ alwr.ys V contended that the 8t. Lawrence should be a L highway throughout, from its source to the I ocuan; and certainly anyone looking at the '' maj) must bo impressed with tue view that nature inteudi i it to be the great high- »'ay of the west. I choula nave been better satisRed if the Imperial Commissionci s had acceded to tho propoB-'iOn of the United States, and simply admilccd that tho St. Lawrence is such a highway, and asked no equivalents. If that ha^l been done, wo should have had a pre- cedent for the use of such rivers as the Col- umbia. But crncediog the right for what are called equivalents, prevents its use as a precedent. The equiv.\!ents spoken of, — the rivers Yu- kon, Foreupine and iStikine may bo very fine waters, but we do not know anything about them. I look upon the St. Lawrence as our Jordan, and I know nothing of these waters of Damaicus. (Hear, hear.) I tlnd reference made, however, to the Treaty made in 1825, by which apparently we had as laucli right to those rivers as we have un- der tho present Treaty. My hon. friend from Feel contiiuds that by the cession of the territory from Russia to tho United Statea, that Treaty wrta abrogated. I io not quite see it in that light. It may bo so, but it seems to me tlutt on another ground that Treaty could noi be in force. England al- ways contended that war between two coun- tries puts an end to existing treaties. She has coutonded tliat tgain md again. Since that Treaty there was a war between Kng- Iiuid and Russia, and therefore, according to the view maintained by England, that war must have put an end to the treaties existing between tho two countries. It is not, how- ever, a matter of very great importiuice, for, from all I can learn, the use of those rivers is iu no sense, an equrvalent for the use of the St, [^awreuce. There are, however, other equiv- alents. There is the navig.ition of Lake Michigan. 3ut it is to be observed thait while we give the use of the Sc. Lawrence for ever, we only have tho use of Lake Michigan for a liisitcd time. Then there is tlte bonding system, which is of ^reat value to Canada, — and also the relaxation of tho navigation laws, which I consider a moat im- portant concession. It will be a i^reat ad- vantage to some parts of Caiu>da. Some of our railways will benefit very oousiderably, and also the shipbuilding interest. Tho Northern Railway, the Gteat Western Rail- way and the Wellaoil Railway will profit by it. The privilege is, however, subject to two chocks — first, the use of our canals; ainl the second, t>o export duty en the timber cut in that part of the State of Maine watcr- rred by the River St. John, and exported from New Brunswick to tho United States. But for this disposition of tho St. Lawrence, whether we approv of it or not, no blamo can be properly imputed to our Government. The Imperial Government, however, took this matter entirely into its own hands ; our Goverument had nothing whatever to do with it. It has been already explained that the cession of the navigation of thi. St. Law- rence is of very little praci.ici X v.duo without the use of the canals, and the right to use the canals can only ba exercised with our consent. 1 have no doubt that we shall be very glad to have the canals used by tho Americans as much as possible on the same terms with ourselves, so that we may derive an incrcaseil revenue that will contribute to the cost 'I their construction, and will mako them more profitable to us than otherwise they would be. I now come to that portion of the Treaty mora particularly before us — the clauses re- lating to the 1 .sheries. These clauses are subject to our iiirisdiction, and it is for tw to dei'ide whether they shall be confirmed. Let me briefly refer to them. The 18th clause gives liberty to the Araeri. can liahermeu to otitain lisb within *he dis- puted limits. Tho 19th gives ua the right to fiah in United Statea waters. . The iiUiid provides for the payment of any difTorcnoe m value to the country that may u^thave as much atl vantage asthecther. It has been objectsd that these piovisions are not fair, but I cannot see anything unfair in them. It is provided that we may (isli in American waters, that Americana may fish in our waters, and that if there be any dill'ur- once in value the diU'erenco is to be the sub- ject of arbitration. I cauiiot see that any- thing can bo more fair in principle, or more just, if proiwrly carried out. But in addi- tion to this, there is another privUege, whioli ia given to us by the 21st Article, namely, that for the term therein named, fish and fiah oU shall be a^ational power and National wealth. Such has been the policy of the United States, suoh snould be the policy of this country. Emigrants want to come to us and find here happy homes; but to enable us to give and Ihera to rece* -o the advantages we offer, we must have . g.iarantee of peace. War would keep them away, and it is our policy, there- fore, to have peace. For similar reaso j feace is the true policy of the United Statea. look upon this Treaty as a happy omen oi the future — a happy precedent in vhe inter- est of peace. (H jar, hear) For these rea- sons, 1 intend to vote against both of tho amendments that have been proposed, and for the second reading of the bill. (Hear, hear.) I wish, before taking my seat, to make a few remarks upon a subject that has ai'isen in the CLuroe of this discussion. I was sorry to hear the attacks that were made upon the leatlcr of thia House and the leader of the Government; ami I was sorry, too, when he made his speech in moving the bill, tha*^ he thought it worth whih to notice attacks that had been made upon him before the meeting of Parliament. But, Sir, the honourable gentleman ia human, and it is not to be won- dered at, that, after having been abused and vilified for days and months and years — after having been assailed in regard to this particular measure with a malig- nity and intensity of animosity which was increased by the fact that his opponents know his lips mujt for the time be sealed. I say it is not to bo wondered at — he would have been more than human if ho had re- frained — that he alluded to those charges upon the floor of this House, where alone he could properly repel them. (Hear, hear.) Failii.g.in argument against the lion, gentle- man his opponenta resorted to abuse, hurling at him such epithets as " Judas Iscariot, "Benedict Arnold," while the hon. member for Bothwell assert?.' that he floated on popular prejudices. Sir, if there is one man in this House who is more than another above the popular prejudices of the hour — if there ia one man who more than another would scorn to avail himself of the opportuiiities afforded by a capricious and fleeting puldio opinion— if there ia one man who more than another is faithfu' to thj true interests of this great and growing country — that man is the Premier of tho present Government. (Cheers.) I say so deliberately, I say em- phatically that it ia the feeling of the conn- try from one ocean to the other. (Clicera. ) If there is one man in this Dominion better who is entitled to more favourable con- sideration than another because of great ser- vices rendered io the country, that man is the Premier of thia country. (Cheers.) If there it one man who has done more than an- other to bring about C^ufederation— if there is one man who has done more than another for tho auccess of the Confederation— if there i^ one mau more than another who has ear- neatly workei", irrespective of local claims or party consideratious, to make the Union a reality, who has clung to it through good re- port and through ovil report, who has stead- fastly laboured, for that great end, while others upon whom it was o pie of this country, ought to be made eternal. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Our finance* are well managed — our public works are well managed, and all tho Departments of the Ooven. nent are carefully aud well adminis- tered. tVhat, Sir, is the result ! The whole country ia prosperous. From ocean to ocean it blossoms Uke a rose. The wholt people are now contented and satisfied. They are contented and satisfied because they are prosperous, and they are pros' perous mainly because the right men are at the helm of oar affairs. (Cheers.) I do not wish to withhold aLy acknow- ledgement that is due to hon. gentlemen opposite. T admit the necesaity of an boncat and vigilant opposition. I admit their right fairly to criticize the conduct of the Govern- ment — to nry,if need be,into every executive act and to attack criminality if it should be found in high places, but I deny their right, if I m»y be permitted t6 nse the language of detectives, to " put up jobs"— fo impute misconduct when there la none, to blame this Government for the sins of another Govern- ment, and to a8|ier«e the character of our foremost men, when those men, by their acts and by their lives, have proved them- selves to 01 good and faithful public ser- vants, I think that the hon. gentlemen who are now on the Treasury benofaea are well qualified fo; .he positions they fill, and that the true interests of the country — the welfare and happiness of its people — wiU be best served by keeping them in the position they so wortluly occupy, (I.K)ud otaeers,) Mr.TILLEYaaidhe mnstsay thatthehon. gentleman had made u very able and, for him, a very moderate speech. As a member of the Government, however, ho must »t the very outset repudiate the statement that had been made by the hon, member to-day, and yesterday by the member for Hochelaga, and whichnad been repeated over and over again, that the Government had re- ceded from the position they took in the despatch of the 28th July. They stood by that despatch, and it was satisfactory to know that hon. gentlemen ()^posite recorded their entire approval of tho aentiments then expressed. He defied hon. gentlemen to show any inconsistency on the part of the Government. In July the Government oc- cupied the very same position which they occupieetple of Canada tfi raise from three- quarters of a million to one m'lion of dollars a yoar by auditional taxation for tho public worka they were about to undertake. He did not hesitate to u,j that, bad he been in opposition, and the Government had come down with the aame measure aubmitted by the Government of to-day, he would have taken the ground of hia hon. friend, the member for Chateauguay. He would have said aa he did, that he did net think the Treaty waa what they should have h;>d, but it waa better to accept than reject it. Ho M-ould leave the matter in the bands of the House. He was conKilont that ho could go back to" his constituents and defend hia vote for the Treaty, better thui if he votud against it. TriE VOTE. On the qneo, Cuneron (InvomcHsV Camerop (Peel), Campbell, CiLiling, Car- mlchael, Caron, Carter, Cariior, Htr Oenrge E., Caytey, Chauvoai), Codln, Colby, Crawford (Brockvillc), Craw- foni (Leeds), Cumberland, Currier, D^uust, DeCosmce, DoLormo (Pruvenehcrl, Doubie, Drew, Dukui, Ferifii- fioii, Fcrria, Gait, Sir Alexander T., Oauuhcr, liaiidol, Qeiidron, tilbhn, OraiU, Gray, Grover, Hagar. Harrf- Hon, Heath, Ilinckfl, BIr Francis, iloliuea, HolUvn, Houghton, H >nlon, Irvine, Jackaou, Jonw (Leedit and Orenville), Heeler, Killam. KIrkpairick, Lecerto, Lan. ffevin, Langlols, Lapum, Lawaon, Le Vesconta, Littt'^ Maedonald Sir J. A., McDonald (Antltronisb), Hc'/on. aid (Lunenburg), McDonald (Middlesex), Haaaon ,3oU' lan^fcit), Maason (Ti-rrehonne), McCalluni, M'D >"ugftU (Lanark,) McDougalt (Three Rivers), McOreevy, mo- Kearney, Merrill, Moffat, Morris, Morrlaon (Nl •garal Nathan. Nelson. O'Connor, Pearaon. Ferrv, Ftekard, Pinsonneault, Pope. Pouliot, Pu'ver, Rosa (Champ hin), Ross (Itunlas), Uyan (King's, N.B.), Ryan (Mon..-oal We^t). Sftvary, Schukz, Scriver, Shanty, Bimard, Smith (Selkirk), Smith (Weatniorelat)d), Sproat, Stephenson, Street, Sylvain, Tliomiwv- (Cariboo), Tllley, Tounu- grau, Tnmhlay, Tuppt , Wallace (Albert), Wallace (Vancouver Island), Walsh, Webb, Whitehead, WUIion, Workman and Wright (Otuwa County) —HI. Nats.— Anglin, Recbard, Blake, Bodwetl, Bourassa, Rowell, Bowman,Brown,Calnen)n(Hnron)Chevil Con- nell, Coupal, Delormo, (St. Hyacinthe) Doric»n, Fortier, Fortlii, Foumler, Gooflfrion, Gw'Jn, Jolv, Jones (Hall- fax) Kempt, Maedonald, (Glengarry,) McFarlane, Mac- kenzie, Mahill. McOi 'k*'y, McDougall, Tienfraw,) McMonlcs, Motcaile, Mills. Morson.(Vlcl^ri' , O.) Mun- roe, Oliver, Piu)uet, Pelletier, Poxor, Bedford, Renaud, Hobitaillo, Rnii.i (Princo Edward), Ross, (Victoria. N. S), Ross, (Wellington, C. R.), Rymal, .Scalcherd, Snl- der, Stirton, Thompson (Ilaidimond), Tlionipson (On- Urio,) Wells, White (Ilalton,) While (East Hastings,) Wood, Wright, (York, Ontario, W. It,) Young 66. ANALYSIS. FORTHK Bill. Ontario 44 Que'ieo 46 Nova Scotia 13 New Brunswick IQ Manitoba 3 British Columbia. 6 AOAIMST. 84 16 2 9 121 65 MAJORITIES FOR THE GOVERNMENT. Ontario 10 Quebec 29 Nova Scotia n New Brunswick. ^ Manitoba 3 British Colutabia 06 "Hiere \nre absent thirteen mnmbere ; vacant seat, one ; Speaker, one. Four membora from Nova Scotia paired ; three from Ontario for tho Treaty ; two from New Brunswick, and four from Quebec, i li. say that, h«d he been in B Uovernment bad come ae meaaure aubmitted by f to-day, he would bavo of his hon. friend, the lugxiay. He would have at bo did net think the icy should have hnd, but :cept than reject it. Ho ttter in the hands of the nficlont that ho could go taents and defend his better thtn if he voti/d i^l M Mt E VOTE. )eing put on Sir John A. 1 for the second reading; Washington Bill, it was lowing divisioi! : — , ArchunbesuH, Ault,Brl:w, 1, Belleroiw, Benoit, B«rtnuiil, I, Brousoeau, Burt)Go, Cameron 'eel), Campbell. Calling, Car- Cartior, Sir Oenive E., Cavley, , Crawford (Brodcvilte), Cr»w- 1 Currier, U Veiconta, LltH- Donald (Antlgontsh), Mc'/on- aid (Hlddlemi), Hassnn Sou- t>nnc), McCalhini, M'-D >ugaU ■hrco Rivers), MeGreevy, ac- ;, Uorria, Morrlmn (Nl igsral lor, Peamon. Terry, Pkkard, Hot, Po'»er, Rosa (Cham|/ sin), ting's, N.B.), Ryan (Mon.real Scrivcr, Shanly, Simart/.SuilUi mrelandX Sproat, Steuhenaon r- (Cariboo), Tlllej, Touran- , Wallaee (Albert), Wallace ih, Webb, Whitehead, Willson, Xtawa County) —m, d, Blake, Bodwell, Bourassa, Camenm (Hiiron)Che» J Con- It. Hyaclnthe) Dorion, Forlicr, Inn, Go(lJn, ,lolv, Jones ((''H- (Glcnfcnirrjr,) McFarlane, Mac- koy, McDougall, rientrew,) 1. Mori8on,(Vlctjri' , ().) Mun- itler, I'ozor, Wodtonl, Renaiid, Edward), Ross, (Victoria. N. . n.\ Rynial, Scatcherd, Sni- (llaldlmand), Thumpson (On- Iton,) While (East Hastings.) it«u^o,W.K.,) Young 66. 1LYSI3. Fob THE Bill. AOAWST. .... 4i 34 .... 46 16 . . . . 13 2 .... 10 9 3 6 121 SS THE GOVERNMENT. 29 11 7 3 06 nt thirteen moniberif ; Speaker, one. Four 1 Scotia paired ; three Treaty ; two from New from Quebec. \, » ^Ji.lf.j ;-j l.i. i )' i. ; i i J. ,aMIA aT'- -II j.a-klot'^- m ^^ ^^ THE DAILY AIL sssssssssssssssmssssssssk THE MATT, is a first-class Daily Newspaper, published in Toronto, and is issued ^y the "Mail Printing and Publishing Company;" Incorporated | by Act pf Parliament, 1 \\ \\ ■ W-- IT IS NATIONAL IN ITS AIMS, Temperate in ito Tone, accurate and impartial iu it« Reporta, exact in the Legal IntelUgenoe it auppUea; while no paini «rc spared to make it« Commercial Department vaiied and complete. ' ITS COLUMNS Art; furnished with the Latest Telegraphic Jleport« from ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD } while every movement >A any importance that transpires within the Dominion, finds an appropriate record in its pages. 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