!MAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-S) k A A y. ^ I.O I.I 1^ IIL25 III U 2.5 2.2 M 1.6 ^^ <^ /a / Photographic ^Sciences Lorporation 23 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, N.Y. 14580 (716) 872-4503 M ^ % iV ^,^ . M^^ "^r^*^, '■''''>' """^^ "ke to know, m fuller .etail from the hon. Minister of Justice how far t lese proposed alterations are in ac on ^f Ltern r ""'^''^^''''^ *« ''« ^^^ present practice of interpreting statutes in the same re^'anl in v,Ith^,hat has been a.lopted in the Provinces- because 1 cannot conceive anything of greater con-' rLTI?'"": "'''■ r '*''""•'' "'-t without reZL t ur ™^Tfi- M l'" "f P'ir"'Pl«« of interpretation, uurgieat chfhculty, I miglit almost say our c'rcat scan.lal. at present, is the^.ncertainty of he^ w we .k.nw;f"«'^ V" ^'r^''^ "f interpretation: "lepi'ne ourselves of the light given hv the great body of judicial construction to^^tatutS Mr. BLAKE. That is just thecjuestion, wlicthcr It IS not a fair inference, from the i,lcn,n 1 ^ .t e Act of this Parliament repealing a hw tT.at this Parliament conceived ther'e was a law To' rep d .Mr. HLAKE. It seems to me reasona})le that we shoul, not repeal any Act which is not i fcice I ue perform the unnecessary operation of doing tficvt, we expose ourselves to the judicial view that an that ,ve di.l suppose that it was in force or we .shoul.l not have rep.;ale,l it. Of course we ■ ro just now passing a law for all time not' tnueet contingencies which we have already got r of rtlie case of obsolete laws; but we are ado ! Wdch TT' "^ ,'^"n«t>-«''-ti"» and interpretathm h. , , *" "ify. *" ^'='« "f Parliament whic h, e been passed smce Confederation, an' ""'''""^y "f^-^'- fonfeder tioi phiclremlere, It necessary, in order to effect a complete repeal, that there should be legi-dat Ln I both provincial and fe.leral. Hut no inference cm consist of two aivisions-amendment^u,,] d"c ail -ion. liiere mav be cases in «l,;,.l, i> ,i- . may think the c,Wts hav:.^^^ ^S i,;;— e ineaning which Parliauunt intemid to ^nve tJ an Act, .and Parliament may exercise the somp uJt'rn r;r r'\ "^ ••''^■''r'^ wt^at^lt t-a: "by ts toi niei Act and may thus intc-rpret its owii tTfilTi .l^^fW"."l'l.'-^^nAct d'eclariig, To hat the legislation in itself was ever ditferent fro n wiia Parliament declared it to be, but hat such was the meaning of the law a/. inUio That I ST^ wit^ hutr 'T '^ ^'!'^^ "^ amendm::,! .ind It IS with that this sub-sect on deals If voi aniend, you do change. You may chan« f" ^th" V te, -.:• worse, i.at an amen.bnent is: or is in- avtlat^if; '%'''""«"• ""'' "'''"" "'« proceed to sHy, that in performing an act, the very essence I %? of «lii(li isclmTi;^u. tlic preMUiiiptioi) itt not ti)bt'oiie lit iiii intent ti) cliiuigc. mo lue i)frf(irnnn;u.' iiuain wliiit is !i vi'iy I'xti'iioidiniiry ? .soi'nicil to ini; to Ih- not an inconvenient \ iew on the part of the jinlieiaiy, Tt is (piite tnie that the eonstnulion may he •sonu'tinie.^, ass to this and the other instaiiee.s, a tietion. Hut with refeience to this suli-xeetion. 1 think it must )«! plain that when a lioily of lej.'islators en^jajie in the pi'ocess of anienilinjr a law , tlii\ inilii ale. Iiy that very aet, their view that tln'V aiT ehaiiying the law, Or, at ' any rate, it must he presuniecl that tliose in that IhxIv who are mainly responsihlu for the le,'al and formal portions of the le^islaiion, ure engaged in sn.'h a piiieess. On the whole, it .seems to nie that the same ol)jeclion whieh a|)j)lies to the first section applies to this one. CFUMINAL L.WV A.MKXDMKXT Mr. HL.VKK. I would ask the Mini.ster of , Jnstiie if there is any sutlirienl reason for the; liniitationof tlieageto twenlvdne ye.irs, hei ause. if I i have not heeu misinfornieil, very painful cases have i occurred \\ here the age w'ls over twenty-one. and * where the imi)overisluMl condition of the niiforlu nate woman, and her state of suliordination, was the cause of the .seduction ? ' j Mr. Itl.AKK. 1 doid)t ve'y much whether | there is any otljer r'lass.of cases in wliich there is , more danger of lirutali.sing iieople than in the cla.ss \ of cases dealt with in this clause .'{, and 1 would suggest that the penalty of w hipping be adtleil. Mr. ULAK H. I regret to say that we .sometimes reed of cases of such assaults on ilaughters of very | tender years. What op))ortunity liave we to BCciire the couvictiun of the guilty liarty, under: these eircunislancv's, and to ])ro(ure the necessaiy I evidence? I'lie main thing we have to grap])le i with is the crime of greatest enornn'ty which can: be (.-oimnitled : tliat of a father taking "advantage of ' •his almost absolute power over his yomigcliilil'and i will not the liability of the child to a hmg ini- i jjii.somnent be an additional obstacle to seeur- j ing the neces.sary evidence ? j Mr. liLAKIv The (jucstion with which we are ' now dealing is one of considerable imjOTitance to- , ilay, and it may lie of still more im))ortance in the future. 1 think it is not unfit that wo shotdd . have what the tittittide of the (lovernment is. t with reference to the person.s w hose existence in our midst has given ri.se to this legisration. Wei ha\e noticed from time to tiim-in the public jjiints, reference, to \isits of persons of high consideration anil authority in the Domiidon, to the settlement of these i)ersoi\s called .Mormons, or Latter-Day ■Saints, in the Xoith-West, and occasionally ' eticouraging words ha\e been irsed towards them with the suggestion, I lielicve, that they have got to oliey our laws but still encouiaging woi-ds which it wiuild .seem to me were, perhaps, lather out of place. Till re are in the Province of Ontlirio, u) v.-rrious sections, certain sniiiU scattered coin- \ inuiuties of Mormons of the earlier period under the | Joseph .Smith di])i'nsation, who remain monoga- ' mists, who, 1 believe, .separated from the I'hurdi of the Latter- Day Saints on the occasion of the change I wldeh was etrei-ted at the time of Brigham Young, and which change maiidy consisted in tln^ matter which wiMire now engageil in attempting to meet. With reference to such ])erso)is, we, ofcour.se, have nothingtosay.but itisiighttoob.ser\e that the ililK- cnltic'.s which the L'nited Staies has hail to contt'ud w itli inicspec'.^totheMormonsof I'tahsinieihe lirig- ham \oung dispensation ari^ serious and grfiwing ; and that from time to time earnest ett'orts have been made to overcMime what seems to beanab lost insnperabli' ditlieulty, fiw ing to the (.'xtiaordinary solidarity of these people and their deteiiiMnation to iiersist in and to conical all legal evidence, at any rate, of their practices. As far as one can judge, there is now a disjMisition on the part of a consid- erable number of these iieojile- if not on the part of theii' authorities them.sehes to seek some more congenial jilace, wherein they hope to be able to carry ori these practices, for the .sake of which they are ))rejiared to give uji their position in Utah, ft seems to me, as far as lean judge, that it is in the course of an eti'ort to find a resting-iilace e'sewhere than in Utah that the settlement has been made in the Xoith-W'est Territories ; and lieiiig made under such circumstances, and as far as I can see, with such intention. I can only high'y a))i)rove of the etlbfl. which the lion. Minister of .Justice is making to pro\ide stringent laws again.st the ))racti('es which are coinb iiined by these clauses of the Bill, i'.ut I think it well, also to .say that the ((Uestion is, in inijre ies))ects than this, a serious one. and that it calls upon us for some very strong exjires- sioii of sentiment in discouragement of the settle- ment of Mormons with these jieculiar views and notions in our midst. I happen to hii\ e before me a copy of the will of Brigham Young, in which he made careful jirovision — 1 do not know how ample, because I do not know what his estate was-for his latlier numerous family. They are divided into, some twenty three or twenty-four classes, the earlier of which consistseach of a wifeaui I the child orchildi en by that w ifc. and the latter of a batch of wives who seem to have been childless, in the course of this w ill he uses language whii'h it may be useful for til': hon. gentleman to know. After having niai'e ; vision for these numerous jier.sons, he says in till '.h clause : "To nvniil iiiiv niioptiiin, the ward? inarrioiliiriiiarr''iffe, ill this will, shall lie tiiUcn to li.ivo tiecoiiii' consniiniinto lietwceii mill and woui.iii, cither liy (•crcnioiiv licf'oro a lawful nun-'istriite or nucunling to llic ordcrnf (he Church iil'.lpsu,=i (;liri.''t of b'lltcr-Dn.vSaiiit.-', or Ijy their eohiibita- tioii ill cuiiiiirinity to our cus'om." Simjile coh.ibitation, therefore, in confonnity to the Mormon custom is one of tiie rules by which Mormon marriage shall be recognised. I find, in the compihition which contains this will, this statement w ith refei'ence to Mormon marriages : " .Sotiietimos they have witncspcs, soinetiraeii not; if they think any trouhio uiiiy arise Iroiii a iiiiirriiige, or that a woman is incliiii'd to ho n liitic norvpr.so, tlipy liiivo no witiies.sos. lu-ifhcr do they (live miirriaitf cortiii- eati's, anil if o('ca,.iioii rcitiiircs it. ami it is to .shieUl any ol^thoir iiiilysainou..' brolliri'ii I'mni lu'iiifr t'nuiiil out, liiey will |jo>:;ivoly swear llnit tlicy ilii] not iieriorin any mamiijre at all, .«i) tliiit the wninoii in this cliiii-cli Imve Ijut a very poor outlook for being eousi'ierod hunorable wive.-?." 'J"he same ditficulties with I'eference to the regula- tion of the Utah Mormons, as distinguished from tho.se to whom 1 referred, the old Mormons of the former dispensation, have cre])t uj) in another way. In 188!t a judgment of an a.ssociate justice S,*!;;;=,;: 'ajt;ir,.v;;';;;;:,rr S;S 'Sr |Kr«o,m wan Uik.n u,s to tlinr vi,.w« a. "l n.i.u'i -^t"t«V" """'" " ^•"'^'"' "♦' ""' ^"'""^ pies, '^'^•'"'i'''^''^ Wiw given l,y n.. k.8s than el.-v,Mi ! Anil the ai.p^ , „. .. „ , :.ia n.„nU,...f „.,,ul« we.e given, ! -.ne authontie.. Wnrapilr'^.'^^r;;;^' jj-^ t K. niatt.r, ..ay th, ■.• i.s a M„.spici„u.s .lispnmortion <> the «exe« among then.. I ha^■... a letter fion. a neml who iiai,,,fcn.s to he teniporarily a resi.h.nt of L ah an.l who m co^Mu.ant of the cour.e of eveiits eie tianspnn.u, w,th re^ranl to.on,eof tho.e who \o H V ^''^-l.^l'l'-''/''^"!'" imve gone into the -N. ah. West hmtones have for a time h.ft their 1 occupied very iiigh iionitionM in thi organwation, an.i a nuni),er of details were g which [ will not weary the fonunittee l.y rea.linK : I will refer simply to the conclusions of the learned judge, which HIV .sustaine.l l.y extra.'ts from the evidence and from writings of the ])eople. He a.iy preacher or tearlier ,.f the ehnr.d, ever, n «i r e ins.^u:e. advised oh^lUMle^.^^Vl'l^a^;;^;;:;;;:;;^^^^^^^^ ,, . , ....,o. ., „,„e .ert tne.r i^:">A^ «'!.-'.',■■« "-.y. t'K' .■videa,... ,„ ,|,i. ease, and'the whofe i "'-l wives hehin.l them, l.ut he learns that they have listorv e ' "'• i""l the wlu, e i '">' » 'ves i.eiiin.l tliem, l.ut hi IS= y?S? "'''ff- !^" ' '- -'' " '-' ""''■' '"'' L'l^il.'",i"'. *"'/""'".''"'. li"" insulted and driven flnited t:^^-?'iy^"V'^-'"-.ien;e,oat^asr:p„rtioa:ottT;ol|ast 1 do not know.>.t that is t..i7s;;ia;.: at Flow lon^ that will ^l^i'tifF^ fy-j' th" teV^u:;;; ;,^:^',ie;; ;y{i;^",^;;',l!;;! ^ i"--e..t for thei;-v,:;i;u;n;. in Canada votwiti. allt^!:^::\^!^'}:::\l!^^>!'^^-'>ii-'>h^^n^^^^^^^ tl'e anxiety the hon. UK^Iie^s flom u!e Aorth-We.st have shown .luring tlie last Aw days to j„„mote linimgration, 1 fancy they will not he very anximis to jjroinote immigration' ..f this chai- actei, and I ,1,, not NUjipcse that any of us feel, 11 ider the circumstances, that such immigration is of a useful or wh.de.s.mie or profitable character. 1 am n.;t .suggesting at this m..ment that we cunuot J-t eo,ne te rule Urvvr^n:\m^^{;:::"^;:^^l'^\^'^;^l t""r'^''r' ''" ""■ "!'"' '^'"-^f"' '""' -"'Prohen- Sn^."-s:""'"'' "' ""> <'""-"' ^^^^ u'« ^ ! c:;ui;r:c:''"";r'"'' uie'^ ''Xl!:Zn '"' f*'" .•'•" alM.n.inal.le practices v hicl'*'we'"know thes"^ people engage in un.ler pretence of religion. No one who peruses the evidence taken in recent ^m,i ' ,',"','"""'"' I'l'erterencc (vith the r religion, nnd Konor.illv, has .intiiiron serf .oul rloi.dnnnu.i .i. ? /V ' ' raunt in aluu.st ovei^v lo,3%iTm^-""''"'''^ ""^ ^"^'"n- lT,'.";',".V"i 'f "■'";'! J'"'*'"' '"'"*' "'I' t'»' ^■vi.U>.n..e bought before hini as to the teachings of the church : * <,f'r^!i".V '''''!'i' "' i'<. tho actual and veritable KiiiBdom gerontsou earth. «ff"h'^ * ■'lli-Bi»lieo ..1 law in nil llii-ir 2;'lv^^.l,'';:,^:!';■;f.i"5|™^'""°p''^"»»"» i-"ii-i blooil ot the transwrcssl.r ^ ^^ '^'''"'"'-'J '« '^I'odd.ner the j experience on the jiart of tho.se who commit the.se n nK.ml,yr''^,IhoV'1;TTf^^^ '""' i""' ^■'''"^'^^'' l"-^'-autioiKS they will ah;:vV"lu,.so ;vh?."lo'r,or''' ^' ''""""■'* ■" thenuure life ^ '.';'-■ t" e-^'^apo detection will render it a m.itVer of ••Si.x.l, . That the Congress of the Tnifd Slates has mo ' of £';;'nr' ' !"'^"'^>;,,»" l"'^^-^'"t the contitinance light under the constitution to im.ss any |V« i ,. v ' ■"* •'' ^"'^''^- "lerefore it seems to me th-.f and,lls,^,o,cl,ii/;:, f^;:;; ; 1,,^ S:^ ira;"'nnl" r^;';?^'- i 'T" "' ""^ '•-'-"'^'•'•^ ^•"-■••t to stamp as a cHme bleinicrlcrcnceswiththeirrJliKion. ''*''''•''■'•'■ :V"' *" '•-■"der as cHective as the cireiun.stances of (,.fn men ho made irue and loyal oilizcn« l.y such I""-' " ■ ■ ' mcs, or arc tla-v i;:(bienc!cs ? Will t..u.hM,B..or arc tin. hkely to rcnuun so surroum-lcd h y i ■•^K'^i"'^t the crime, but that also U should be i„di CMJlcs o, nie constitution of ^U::'Kil^:^ 1:^X1^:^^:!: I -«:-' "t «'- -"^i-t hour that it is not w.V. s f '"''''■;. X-'"V;'j:'rV'!'''^^'"-''"'<-'^i'tyranni:.;,^ : ■;^"';;'^;:""^"t '"-t ""''l^ <'f«ii«eouragem..nt which provisions of ,uiy law It lias always li.'en and slill is the nolicv of fl,w c „■ ernmcu lo cnooarage aliens, who in g a a h o n no o f±,.}^,:i "^ i^^'icmonies, and which for ncailv half ., i oniVrv , i H''"'","""''"' .'""' ^^''''^'' lor:"'" ""en uiey oijjcct to remaining in aiioti su,,:cm:u:y'.i^h;;'Vr: , r'^,;;;!:'-;^ ^,-;know^^ the|«nmtry where th, laws are practically the sa « ther such an «,.plK.ant should he admittelAoeitiicu^^ uu.Ierstand why they slu.uld come here to ol ..'mi , „•].,. "ur laws. .haUp;te■;>i^-,^-^-;f"^^^^^^^^ Mr. BLVKF ^,Vsb... t. M„ M-- -=uch are antagou.tie to the Govermuen^ oVu.iJ'uI^lle;! i of Interior wfH;the;. hi JL m^rl;,! 'u.y l^^^ton this larhamcnt, as the re,Mesentafives of the pcof.le, have tor the Mo-'uions and their abu.ses, an.l practices, and the views they entertain of civil government and allegiance ami on this marriage question M,th the intention of carrying out which, J rear, tliey are coming amontfst us. Mr. Bb.AKK It is very well understood that he reas,n. the Morm.ms left the Unite.i States is the .hfhculty they have with the American (foy: ernment arising ,mt of this question of ).(dygamy. Ml. Hb.VlxK. That is a most .serious (lucstion ; 'Ill''''.>!.l''^'.'''''r^ '" '•^■'"aiuing in another iinie to 1 ■' .' •■■■^■•">t •-0111U jRTc to ooey )ur laws. ■■ ■ ' If •1 fif.iii ilio Mcutunjuit (iovernorof the North- Wost 'rciiitdiiis. wild, 1 uiiiUTstiuiil, [mill ,i visit, not V'ly loiij^ iij,'o, fif two (iiivs and l\v(. iiii;hts to thu liiiinlft in « lii.-h tlifso |iro|)l(' live, uml who, I iiin told, (ixpnsfii'R the o|iiiiion that they uiv not(|nitc so nioiu)giiniou» now iis is nin-i-.souted ? Mr-. liLAKK. I iiiive inKk'rstooil that tho liieutiMiiint <;..\i'rnor of the Nortli-Wtst Ttni- toi-ies ifL'fivcd an adihfHs tiom thi-so pcopit;, anil, I thinly, specially from Mr. Canl, w Iionu wife, 1 uiiiifr-itiihil, in ono of tlw nuniLron.s dauglittfM of Hrighani Vomig. Mr. DKWDNKV. That is not offering induee- nients to tonie in tiifif. Mr. BLAKK. No; i.nt it is indiaing tluni to stay there. I Mr. Hr.,AKE The hon. nienilier ha.s nii.iinidei- , Htood nu) a little. My iHwition was not that we ' should pa8.s a law to prevent them from eoming in. I Mv. BLAKK. I wLsli. at any rate, to have it I unilerstood that what 1 saili,-ih in o\ir eountry a eoi'idition of rhinos | which they had fouml it dilljcuk to eontinue Tn j the United .States, ami that f thcmght it v a.s im- ; portant tliat words of dit^coiiragement .shou!ple in tliis | oomitry against their eoming here with any such i notion or idea as tliat, and th.it they shotdd learn ' in a very markeil maimer that we woidd not jierinit the scheme to grow and assume jiroportions moie diffknlt and more daliueroiis to grap])le with than it is now : and that if they do oome here they must eome here not merely under a [U'etenec of olicying the law, hut tlia^l they must ilo .so in. reidity. I Mr. BT.AKK. I do not nee why there ahnultl not he in this ca.se discretion given to the judge of punishing either by tine or liy imprisonment, for, if the oH'eiiee may \te most ae'rious, ' it may iilso bo most trilling. Mr. RLAKH. With reference to this, I lun not familar with the practical operation of the law ; hut a rei)re.seiitation has heeii maile to me hy a gentleman of very eonsiderahle experience in one of the largi'st centres of population in the I'rovinue of Ontario, that the operation of the process of election, w hen it takes place hefoi'e a inngistinte, without the ))rcsenci! of some responsihie function- ary representing pulilic justice, is somi'timos very nnsatisfactoiy, and that the prisoner does not ohtaiii that information and opportunity for consideration wiiich he ouglit to have, h'efore peciding on the c(,urse he shall take, the result of which is not infretjuentlv , as stated to me, that election takes place, and a hurried trial proceeilsand eijiiviclion isohtaiiu'd under cireumslanceson which conviction should not take phice. The suggestion made to me was that tiiere shouhl Im! fewer Eicilities for proctiring the election, uidess in cases where the Crown was represented hy some functioiuiry wild should see that justice is ilone towards the piisoiKir. I am not myself practically ac(|uaiiited with this matter, l)ut the gentleinait who made the suggestion has a great amount of experience ; audi woidd iwk the hoii. Minister of Justice whether any suggesti(.ns have heen made to him in that res[)ect "' Mr. JiLAKl!. Has any provision been made for regulating tlu! method hy which intermediate sentences shall lie terminated, or hy what author- ity they shall end ? Mr. BLAKK. Woidd it not he more convenient if the hon. gentleman would put these additional clan.ses on the paper, with the notice that he would ask our assent to them at the next sitting of the ("oininittee ? OTTAWA : Printed by Brown Chambkrlix, Printer to the Queen's Most P:xcellent Majesty. \ \