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Tous les autres exemplaires originaux sont filmte en commenqant par la premiere page qui comporte une empreinte d'impression ou d'illustration et en terminant par la derniire page qui comporte une telle empreinte. Un des symboles suivants apparaitra sur la derniire image de cheque microfiche, selon le cas: le symbols — ^ signifie "A SUIVRE ", le symbols V signifie "FIN". Les cartes, planches, tableaux, etc., peuvent dtre filmto A des taux de reduction diffdrents. Lorsque le document est trop grand pour 6tre reproduit en un seul clich6, il est film6 A partir de Tangle supArieur gauche, de gauche i droite, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images nicessaire. Les diagrammes suivants iilustrent la mithode. Krata to pelure, n d n 32X 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 «^;:": '^Hv^ OFFICIJLIL. K/Er^OI^T OF SPEECHES DELIVERED BY NEW BRUNSWICK MEMBERS IN OPPOSITION TO THE TARIFF. HOUSE OF COMMONS, OTTAWA, 1879. EDITED AND PUBLISHED BY T. J. RICHARDSON. i OFTAWA: PUINTKD BY THE " CiTIZEN " PRINTING AND PUBLISHING Oo., SpARKS StREET, 1875). SPEECHES OF NEW BRUNSWICK MEMBERS IN OPPOSITION TO THE TARIFF. MH. zz2ra. March 27th, 1879. Mr. king Sdid he intemled to oon- sid»r this National Pulley, ho culled, us it atlectej some of the priiicipul industries of the Maritime Provinces. He regretted to have to e.^press himself in direct op- position to the principles laid down in the introduction of this tariff hy thn Minister of Finance. He entertained feeling of the highe-tt i-espt-ct for that gentleman, and had Iteen in accord with him, socially 6nd polilicaily, for a life- time. It was true tiiat ho hud been a luoulderof public opinioi in his native Province. In matters connected with the temperance inuvemont his name huil become a household word. As a tempei- ance man, New I'runswii-k was prouil of liini ; and it, to-day, tlii . Province wus foremost in ado()ting the Canada Tem- perance .Act, it \\-.\H fair to say that the hon. gontleiniui's consisteiicv, as an ad- vocate of t»*mpci'ance and |>i'oliil)itioti, was being felt in that movement. It was like wise true, tliat in the Province of New Brunswick the feeling was largely in favour of a revenue tariff, as opposed to the Protfc- tinnisl princi|)'e. If, to-night, he stood an advocate of Free-trade principlt-s. it WiW lar>fcly due to the fact that he had taken le.ssons from the hon. gentleman, who, it wassffe to a.sseit, had been, dur- ing his ailministration of public aff.iirs, a pron\inent advocate of those principles. It had l»eeu urged that geutlemi-n from New ihunswick, who had heivtofore Ijetui followers of the Minister of Finance, should be prepared to support him on this occasion. Did anyone suppose that, if the jjon. gentlenu'n were to effect a change of base on the temperance ques- tion, those in sympathy with him in that great movement woidd be expected to go and do Ii;>»wi8e'? Hon. gentlemen oppo- site had referred to the honour conferred u|K>n them >)y nu^mbers of the late (.Gov- ernment visiting tiieir counties, in order Co influence the elections. His county had been equally honoured by a visit from the Finance Minister, who came for the purpose of assisting in the selec- tion of one of a number of gentlemen, who were anxious to be sacrificed on the altar of their country, in the interests of the then Opposition. In a speech deliv- ered on that occasion, the Minihtm- of Finance attem|»tei a definition of the so- called National Policy. He iiiformed the audience that it was not intended to in- crease the taxes of the people, tliat arti- cles which were not proiluced in the country would lie admitted at a low rate of duty, while protection would be afforded to manufacturers by a readjust- ment of the tjuiff, but cerlainly there would be no increiso. He (Mr. King) Nvas yroud to be able to say that the great Liberal party in that constituency were not inllutaiced l)y the statements tlion and there maile, and which had bron proved by the introduction of this tarifi' to havo been made without foundation. He had examined the tariff carefully, and was uuiiblfc to di.scover anything like a read- justment except in one ca&e whe e a small re.biction had been made nn the article of molasses, and a larger amount put u[»on tho article of sugar. It was true that a great many articles which were fornn-rly in the free list were now 8nl>ject to duty. .Among those were flour and cornmeal, wliicli the people were assure I by his o|»piinent would not b taxed. Ho v/oidd remind the hon. genili-man that the tax on cornmeal, while it would not strongly affAct liU {Mr. Tilley'H) constituency, woul«l bo oppt'oasivti in the riiml diHtricta, •npitcially umons; the poorer c1ab->u8. It had be«n aiid that u duty on flour would not inorea'ie the cost to the coniutner. Tliia p:>iiit had been aottleii by theapeech of the Fiuimco Miuiat^r, wh>in, in ahow- ing thJB Honae the amount he expected to r«oeive by way of revenue from the increaaed duties, gave it as his opinion that two hundred and fifty thousand doihiri revenue would be derived i'vora this tax on l>raad alone. Hu maintained that, looking at the Nationil Policy as a 'whoit), and as applied to New Brunawick, the time chosen for its introduction was inopportune, so far as that Province was concerned. Thi» principal industries there were farming, lumbering, ship- building, tishin;;, and the carrying trade. These industries were, many of them, at the ))rdsent time, strugs^ling tor an exis- tence. The cause of this, he contended, was not to be f jund in the Dominion, nor in the legislation of tliis Parliament, but was due to the fact that our customers in Great Britain and foreign countries were too poor to purchasn our staple articles of export from us at remunerative, or even paying, prices, and the consequence was that prices iuid run down at fearful rates, and our people were embarrassed. It was true tlia*. our nianufuoturers wore not, at at thti present time, as prosperous as wo could wish, and we did not need to go far to tinil the cause. It was not that they were unprotected, but Wiis due to the fact that the leading industries were paralysed for the time being, and the jieople, in c()ns:^quence, were unatde to purcliHse the goods produced by the niaiiuf.vetunu-s. He did not think that the Minister of Finance •would tell this House that it would be possible, by legis- la ion in this Parliament, to rai.se the price of our lumber or other articles of export in the markets of either Great Britain or the United States. He would now show how two of the principal industries named would be affected by this tariff, and, as he had the honour to re- present a constituency that was more immediately connected with the business of farming and lumbering, and he him- self was more conversiint withtkese than anv others, he would confine his remarks to them. The Miuistdr of Finance, in his Budget speech, had reminded th« House and the lumbermen of the country thiit in the readjustment, ao-called, their interests had been guarded. Ho (Mr. King) had carefully looked into the mat- ter, and would give the result of hii calculations. He would apply the in- creases under the [>roposed tariff to the different descriptioris of goods made use of in the lumber business. In order to make '.his plain, he would base his calcu- eulations on the average quantities of different kinds of supplies affected by the increase, and necessary to produco say 1,000,000 superficial feet of lumber. First on the list he would place 1,000 bushels of oats, on which a duty of 10c. had been imposed. It might be that the increase on that article would amount to half the duty, or say $50. This he doubted. Then, on four barrels of beans, increa.ied duty, $2 : thirty barrels of cornmeal at 40c. duty, amount $12; fifty barrels of fiour at 5Uc., anM\int$J5. Then, if lal>ouring men were not to bo injured by the National Policy, it was but fair to assume that their wages must be increased, or, otherwise, they too, had been deceived. It would be found, at the present time, the labour required to produce the quantity of lumber niferred to and place it alongside a mill at St. John or elsewhere in New Bruns- wick, would amount to $2, .^00. An advau'je of 10 per cent, on this amount gave them the sum of $250. The additional tax on iron, steel- chains, rope, axes, nails, blankets, stoves, tenting, augeis and tinware, miglit safely be put down a|. $50. giving a total of $.3i.s9. He would now, in order to give the Minister of Finance fair play, deduct from this amount the decease on, say, 200 gallons of molas.ses, and 100 |)ound8 of black tea, which would be found neces- sary in this bill of supplies, and it would be found that the great concession a nounted to less than $5 in all, which, deducted from tlie total, as shown, left still a charge of $J84, or a sum very nearly equal to 40c. ))er thousand. Then, in addition to this amount, he would say that, if the manufacturers were not to be injured by this tariff, they would require at least 10 per cent, additional on tiie manufacture of said lumber, which, added to the increased cost of the log, footed up a total increase of 60c. per m vpry Then, )ulcl 8Hy ot to be require oil the which, tlie log, Oc. per thousand superficial feet. Now, lol. them apply this to the production of all kinds of lumber in New Brunswick, which, reckoned as deals and other descriptions usually (>xported, amounted to 400,0()0,00§ annually. To this might safely be added 100,000,000 lor home consumption, making the total 500,000,000 su|>erficial feet, which, figured at the increased cost as shown, gave the enormous tax of $-300,000 additional on this industry alone, and yet they were told, by the Minister of Finance, that this leading industry had been oared for. He (Mr. King), on his arrival here to attend to his Par- liamentary duties, was somewhat sur- prised to find that, in an interview had with the Minister of Finance by gentlemen representing the great lumber interests of the Dominion, they were reminded that the lumbor interest was considered by him as a waning one. In the remarks made by him in deliver- ing his Budget speech he alluded to it as follows : — " The time has arrived when we must consider whether we are to be hewers of wood and drawers of water for our American neighbours; whether we are to continue to produce more lum- ber thin we can find a market for in Great Britain, or than the United States will take from us at fair prices." These remarks, coupled with the fact that, when the tariff was introduced, in the resolutions in which the Government asked the power from this Parliament, to arrange for i;pciprocity with the United States in various articles, including coal, no mention was made of the article of lumber, it l)eing totally ignored, forced him to conclude that the lumber business was considered a waning one, and, as it was really necessary somebody should be sacrificed in the introduction of this Na- tional Policy, it had been decided that the lumbermen were the class to suffer. He would admit tliat the business of lumbering, like many other branches of business, had been overdone, but it was equally true that it would cure itseif, and re()iiu*-d no tinkering on the part of a Gi»vi fiiment who were powerless to aid it. 1 1. had been asserted that, under the fostiM'iiig care of this tariff, the ^ron in- dustry would assume large dimensions. He h9ped it might ; but. when tl^ time •riived that the article of iron be- came a drug in our markets, in a time of depression, would the hon. gentleman, if he happened to he the then Finance Minister, attem|»t to apply the principle he now applied to the lumber business, to legislate it out of existence? He (.Mr. King) would now, for the sake of argument, acce|)t the situation, and would assume th>it the estimate which the Finance Minister placed upon the lumber business, was the correct one ; but, in doing so, would remind him that the other, and greater interest, ia which his constituents were interes ed, had fared no better at his hands. The far- mers of his county had been told by the Minister of Finance, and other gentle- men, for whose utterances he might fairly be held responsible, that, under the National Policy, they would bo protected, that everything they raised upon their farms would suddenly go up in price ; that articles they consumed, which were not ])roduced in this country, would be lowered, and that the price of manufac- tured goods would not be increased. That a duty on flour would not be im- posed, was urged upon them by gentle- men seeking their votes. They were to be protected from the Americans, who, it was said, were flooding their markets. He (Mr. King) was prepared to say to the Minister of Finance that, in so far as the county which he represented, and in which that gentleman had the honour of being born, was concerned, the j)r()mi8es made were a delusion and a snare, which could be plainly shown. He would call the attention of hon. members interested to a statement he held in his hand, com- puted from the Report of Trade and Navigation, in which he would show the amount of the increased protection to the farmers of his native Province. He would explain to hon. gentlemen that the duty on cornmeal and flour would operate as a tax upon the large majority of the agricultural classes in his Province, as in nearly every case the farmera were consumers of American and Canadian flour, and, therefore, he need not include those articles. The other agricultural products imported into New Brunswick last year, on which it was proposed to increase the duty, were as follows : Hops, lard, bacon and hams, preserved meats, animaU, bran, potatoes, other vegetables. bnrloy, oatH, peas anl b'-ans, to wlii-^h, if tlmy tt;>pli»)i| tlio n«w taiitf, thi-y I'ouml tim totitl iitnuiiiit uf iiiun'uwi on Piotvction to b« $J,:rJ7.l(). Uiiler tliH new tiirHr it nii;jr|it bo Hii|i|io8f>d lliiit tliiir own rurni- «i'H woiiltl bH unllotl upon to Hiiupiy ii portion of tIm uilielt^s n-lHiivd t«), prn- viilod tilt' fiirnuM-H of Ontario did not tiike tlie pUci) in tlicir maikntH now Hiippliml \ty tlio Ain(;ricans : b'lt, giving tlio Fi' iinue MinisU'r tin; full bunt'tit. of tlio niHiiHuro of piotunion aHoidod to their fmineis, \inder tliin new tuiilV, wli.it did tliey fiml 1 Tliat, dividing the Hntn named among fortv-two thonsand fuimeiHin New Urnnswiek, as shown l)y the last census, tiiey were protected to the extent of about twenty eents per head. It was true they woidd be told that the tat ilf had been reduced on the urtitles of molasses and ten. but really this re luction was so inlinitessiinally small in tlie face ot the gi'eat inereast! on evei'y artici 5 they consumed, that it was an in- Rult to their intelligence to name it. If the Minifiter of Finance Inid any regard lor the promises made by liis l>ar(y during the elections, and w:is himself desirous of benetitting the farnu-rs of New Bruns- wick, he would suggest to him the in- creast* of one or one and a-hall cents per pound on the article of jmrk — the only article upon which dw increase of duty would be likely to benefit the farmeis. It was tru-i that about one-fifth of all the Ameiican pork imported into tins Do- minion found its way into the Province of New Brunswick, and, while the diity of one cent per pound haenditures on pnblio works, they would most assuredly find themselves compelled to* inciease the duties on the necessaries of life raiher than to decrease them. He would sjiy that there had been a time in his life when he was as willing to echo the seu- limeuts of the Minister of Finance an lion, gentlemen on tin; opposite side of the House were now willing to applaud eveiything be snid or did, and, hiid ho not discovered that the hon. gentleman was not iiifallilile, or anything like it, he might yet be found willing to Buppy him in his clo.sing remarks in his Budget speech a few days since, in which, while picturing to their minds the glorious future for the far west of this country, under this National Policy, he made this reservation — that, if he was not over-sanguine, and if his irieiids were not over-sanguine, these results would most certainly toHow. He (Mr. King) would now read, for the benefit of lion, gentlemen opposite, an extract fron» a speech delivered by that hon. gentleman during the Con- federation campaign, and i-epoited in the i»t. John Teletjr.ijih of December 2lat, KS(J4. ^Referring to the prospects of New Brunswick under Cimfedcration, he gave utterance, at the time, to the following: — seu- «' I roppnt thnt I nm cnnvina'd Mmt a tariff of two tlolliir'* iind Hivi'iitv-llxc (ciitH pur lu'iid oil tlif whole Confi-ikTHtioii will iiifi't itM an- uiimI ncccHHiticH I'or miiiiy yrnrM to loniu. I wunt I hit to K<> oil rucoi'd. It' I hnvi- hiiv ro- I)iitiilioii in tliiaiK.'iiil inalttrM. I winli to ntakc I on lliiH cNliiiiatf : and I will ^ivi' y<>u oix' of my niaooiiK for diiinn ko. TIh' <'X|umi)ii'h of |)^ovi'rnin(!nt iilation. " Wii n, in ISiio, tlm Tnitod SlatoH had 30,(100,001) of |ii'ii|)li' only, (In- rcvonnf wiih tifty-four million dollurs, or $l.(i.'> |ifr luad. Had I tinio. I could go into many other point!*. " I will ffivi; my flt;iircH to tho press, and. if nnyoiii! can diHrovnany irmrin tiii'ni Ifi liim do bo. I am NHliNJit'd lliMt, as i.'anada now paya only $.' 4" pir Iw ad of laiiff, an the Tnitrd KtatfH paid only $l.r,") in IHiio, and ax we have madi' provisii n for local h niMlalivc work, wn Khali lind $2 75 amply niiIIIi itnt for llu- pin- poHi'B of (^onfi'duration, fur at luabt a ({uartcr oi a tontury to conic " He (Mr. King) referred to the frtcfc tlmt but iitt.lu nioK* than halt' the time niimcd hud rolled around, and yt-t it was foiinil that, bet'oro t!io introduction of this tariir, our taxe.^ had increased to six dollai'8 ]>fir cii/>ita, and, under tho o[»eration of this tariff, the j)eop]e of New Brunswick would bo coaipelled to pay no less than eijrht dollar.s and twentytivo cents jier head, or a sum three times greater than the hon. g(Mitieman predicted would be required of them at the expiration of u quarter of a century. Since coming here h« (Mr. King) had had the honour of serving on the Committee for the promo- tion of immigration and colonisation. He had listened to evidence volunteered by gentlemen interested in the settlement of I the great North-VVest He was not aware what the Government i)olicy was ■with reference to this important niattei-, but he could assure them thut if they wished to depojulate New hrnnswiok, they had but to apply this National Policy. He would not detain the House longer than lo say again that he regretted to have to opi)ose tlie hon. the Minister of Finance, by voting against this tariff. March 2Sth, JS7!K Mlt. WKI.IJON said, if the hon. mem- ber had vi>ited the city of St. John, N.I) , he uduld have iiltiMod Ids opinion respecting the elleel of this p )lu;v. Kiir from la'ing a b.-netit lo tlie Maiitime I'rovinct'H, it would crush their indus- tries. He would leave the ipiestioim of Free-trade and I'roti-ction to lai-nofniore ex|ierit'nci>d aliility than himsell, but, so far as regarded that portion of the Do- minion which he hid the honoift to represent, he would call the a t.>-nii theetrec' of this tarilli hero. Tie lion, member for Queen's (Mr. King) .said he had lieen for ui iny yeui'sa follower id' tho Minister of Finuuce, that, by his seductive arguments he had It-eii leil to sup|)oi t the project, of (Joule leialion. He (Mr. Wddoii) had taken tho opposite view ; he liad oppoHid tl)« union of New Lbnnswick with the other Provinces, dieatling the m.iJDiiiy which would overwiielm the lower Provinces, and cause sectional feeling to ovei-iitio public spirit, and one jioi'tioii of the Doiiiinion to b" sacriliced to the interests of another. He had referred back to the period before Confederation to ascertain what then was the position of New Brunswick. Tlieir tarill' was then a small one, and the Finance Minister then endeavouree exceeded under Confederation for even a quarter of a century to come. Scarcnly half that period lui'l elapsed when they (ound it hid nearly trebl'd. Ha would call attention to the speech of the Finance Minister, in which he first un- folded to the peoj)le ol his Jiative Pi*c- vince the advantages he would , as during the last election when the famous telegram was sent from John Boyd, ihe wires were used, though for a different EnrpOM, to persuade the [wople of Now truHHwick to join in Confttderation. The telegram to Mr. Boyd wuh oitliei sent with the honeHt intention to carry it out, or to deceive antl lie'udo the people of St. John into fiup|)orting the hon. the MiniHter of Finance. And he (Mr. Weldon) did not heHitate to nay that, had it not been for that telegram, the hon. the Mininter of Finance would not be on the floor of this Houne acting the r6le of Ooriola- nuR lending on his legions from Ontario and*Quel)ec to crush his native Province. The hon. the Finance Ministr cent. ; cottonH for HuiU, R per cent. ; hardware, 30 por c«mi*. Mh hogany and cedar wood, only required in the oabinH, were admitted free, Init tliiH wan the revision of tlie tariff in the in- tereat of the furnitnie manufacturer. They were alHo allowed to import rock gait frani Tiirk's iHland for the purpose of sealing their vohh<'Is. The Riiiphuilder had to pay 20 per cent, duty on |>itch pine imported, aner cent, on it when brought from Savannah in a hewn or partly manufactured stat^?. Then, be- aideii all these duties the materials had to be purchased, and the result would be that shipbuilders would have to carry more capiul to enable them to meet these additional expenses. The shipbuihUng interest also stood in another position. He would take only the 1,000 ton ships built at St. John, N.B., principally of pi'ch pine and oak, the cost of build- ing and making ready for sea wa.s about $40 a ton, which would make the cost of the ships, in labour and materials, $10,000 ; and as labour and n):ti:«)rials bore about the same proportion, the cost of each would be $20,000. It had been stated that the poor man's wages would bo increased, but he (Mr. Weldon) did not think that was a necessary result of this policy ; and. at any rate, supposing they were increased, it would take the whole of the increase of remuneration to meet the increased cost of living. If the value of labour were not increased, this achlitionul expense of the neceHsaricH of life munt be borne by the poor labourers, but assuming the additional co*t of living would lie ten |)er cent., as stated by his hon. friend the mtudivr for Queen'R, the other night, it woult', on a ship Hiich as he had been Rpeaking of, cauxe an extia cost of $2,000, which woidd, by no menuR, be returned to the shipbuilder. Besides the drawback, there would be this additional $2,000, at a time when their shipping was in a most depresNed state, when the ships in the harbour of St. John were not getting remunerative prices for the carriage ol deals etc., acrosi> ^*» Atlantic. Those slii|is were owned y their i)eoi)lo, and he wo\ild ask wliether the increased price of Ik' our VMS goin'' lo enhance ono shil- ig per ton *1.« value of these ships f This t'^'ifl would prevent American sliipp fi n going into St. John for re- pair.-*, and in that way thcr merchants, nianiilacturrrs and labourers wo\dd lose the benefit derived from repairing those aliips. There was aaulher 'nid very im- portant feature in reg rd to Hie ship- ping interest that would be disadvan- tageously affected. Shipowners con- sidered the cheapness of a port a very important featiir« in the employment of vessels. He had known many ports where the prices were so high thnt many ships would not go there. There were neces.sary expenses connected with the loading and unloading of veswels. Then there were very often expense-* which resulted from storms ; a vessel might lose her sniln, or her yards might be car- ried away, and other damage done, and even if she escaped without injury, ordinary wear and tear would necessitate her replacing articles at some port. He ventured to state that 25 per cent, of the disbui-sements expended by the ves- sels loading at St. John was incurred in repairing or remedying of sails, rigging, etc. Under this new tariff, St. John, in- tead of beint: a favoured port for repairs, Wo lid b"i sliimned. The hon. member for Queen's (Mr. King) had shown that the lumber aiivl farming interests suffered under this tariff, and the hon. member for Shelburne (Mr. Robertson) had spoken in regard to the fisheries, and he (Mr. Weldon) thought he had shown I 10 tliat, undler this tariff, the sliipbnilder wimld i-ireive no Weiiclit. lie v.'oiild ask what Ikk)!) had they iwcived for tliis in- creased taxation 1 None, whatever. They were induced to enter this ('on- federalion, on the compact that their taxation woiihl not lie incivased. Tiie - plied by a drygo ds m ii of that ci y. A firm liad pist imported two bales of blankets, costii'g, in Knglaiid $J5"J, Under the old tarifl tlie duty would have been $ <4 5'> ; under the new tariff the total duty was $1 lO.Jf), or two anda-half times us much as before. 'J"hn tax was a little higher on nu)re e^.i)ensive lilank.^ts. Now, wiih regard to literature, he assumed that it was the duty of tiie (lovernment to foster the introduction of liteiatuie, and more ) articu'arly of a high class of literature. Tut iiy this taritf it was completely shut out. He was informed l)y a leading firm that the fir.st package they had received under the new tariff lia |)er cent, (td Vdloreni. 1 he new tariff taxed such a book as WebsMu's Dictionary by weight C7c. ; under the old tarifl it was .■}()c. An excellent worklil^e iMacaulay's History paid GGc, while formerly it only paid .■Jt'c, and so of all the better clags of books. t)i;e of the leading book- sellers ot Halifa.K said : " We donotap- piove of the duty on printed looks, as it shuts out a very large (piaiitiTy of cheap literature pul lishe«l in CJreat Uritain, as well as tlio ordinary .school books. The result of this will be, that instead of having a literature of a bettr class, we shall have that of a ch.'ap and ordinary class." There was al.so another class of books which would be seiiously aff^-cted l>y this tariff, aiul which he needed ouly to mention to secure the s^'mpattiy of the Hor.se — he referred to law-books, l-nglish Law Keports had to pay GOc. each, which would rai.se the i)rice from $J9.G0 to nearly $40 00 a year. Tins was a lieavy tux on the indispensable legal knowledge of this, country. This class of literature and still better class were en- tirely sliut out by this tariff. He under- stood the hon. the Minister ot Finance to say the other evening that he had been informed by a merchant of St. John that since the tariff duty was im- posed he had been able to purchasd corn 11 leap as 'be we ted to the uks. l>ay )iice a on ?dge of en- der- iiioe had St. im- corn meal in New York at SHc. a barrel loss than liefore the l tiok the trouble to tele- gra|ih to a leailing linn in tli>it busim-ss ill ^St. Ji>hii for tiie |tiir|)iise of ascertain- iii:i the I'liots, ami rt'ceiveil a reply which showed tliat tlie iiiiTuediate effect of tills tariff with reijanl to an article ot ordinary consiiiiiptioii, was ta advance it at oiict) by 27c., and no docbl, in a short time, the advance would be still greater. Tiiey had heard a great tleal about British connection, and to th<^ effect that this taiilf would not interfere withour relations with Great ibitain. There was om^ thing to be fiaid, however — they had ciJy toluokattlie j>ress in ICiigland to Hud i.hat both parti"s in that country spoke of the tariff with iinivr rsal cundeinnatiou. They spoke of it more in sorrow than in auger, that I'l'iuciples so unwise should be adojjted in C.inada. He recollecteil, when this great sehe'ue of Union was devi.sed, the loyalty of the peo|de was appealed to in it-H ''sivour bec.iuse it was said that Great IJi I., in was in favour of it. The feelings of the peoplt' in New B. unswick, the de- scendents of the old Loyalists, were ap- pealeil to and asked to come into the Union in d -ference to the wishes of the Crown. Yet, in this tai iti" they had a standing detiance to the principles rccog- niseil and adopted by the Mothei Conntiy. The liou. Uiember f r Lincoln (Mr. Bykeit), speaking of an article in the Mail iu;wspaper, .said we were not dis- criminating against the Mother Coun- try, Imt we were simply fighting for e.\- isteiu^e against toreigners. And yet here Was a tariff which made a ditference of 25 per cent, against the Americans, and nearly 40 against English manufac- turers, Ho had observed that in the city e|fr Quebec about a week age, at a meeliiig there, Mr. Dobi 11, a well-known hierchant, moved, seconocd liy Mr. is meeting legiets that , Vyiltpe, " that this tJ^e .Govt-rnment had not been able to diBcriminate more in favour of the niann- factiiiers of Great Britain as against those ot the United States." For i.b these lea.sons he was strongly opyiosed to this tariff, and had felt it his duty most CArnestly to protest against it on behalf of the city and county of St. John, whose interests would bo disastrously affect«d by it. Not only his Province, but all the Maritime Provinces would bo in- jiii-ed by it. He considered this tariff was a vi(dation of the compact under which the Maritime Provinces entered into the Confederation, It was only after being assured by the j)rouiof,ers of Confederation that the tariH' would not be increased that the Maritime Pro- vinces consented to come in to tha Union. He felt that these propositions struck one of the most serious blows that were everlevreciating what belonged to Canada. He was surprised to hear him state that cheap money was a sign of thb great pros- perity {hat existed in the Republic at present ; that in New York they were now investing in their own bonds, and that money could be hid on demand at 4 per cent. But cheap money was always not a sign of prosperity, but the reverse When trade was prosperous, men en- gaged in commei-cial pursuits, and the demand for money was greater, and when trade got depressed, the money- lender became distrustful of all oper- ations, and began to withdraw his money from business, and invest in consols, and what appeared to him undoubted securi- ties, but which bore low iuterest. Then consols would rise in value, and the rate of interest would fall for want of proper investments. In all cases when Britain had been prosperous, money maintained a uniform value of about 5 per cent, showing a general trust and confidence in mercantile transactions, capitalists were willing to lend, and business flowed smoothly. But in times of depression like the present, in the great money- lending centres like London, money brought only 2^ per cent., while in Can- ada the supply of money was so limited that its owners could demand rates that suited them, tliough higher than those of the woild generally. One point touched upon by the hon. member for Maskin- oug6 related to a statement as to a dis- crepancy in the remarks of members of the late Administration, in reference to the value of flour in difiei'ent localities, in the event of the adoption of such a tariff" as the present. As that subject interested the portion of New Brunswick that he (Mr. Snowball) came from, he would refer to it. He could see no dis- crepancy in the statements made by these gentlemen. In the western section, where grain was raised, and a surplus existed, the duty would not really enhance the value of flour, but in the Eastern Provinces, that had to de- pend on the others, it would be enhanced without any benefit to the Western farmer, who was to benefit so much bj the tariff". They in the eastern part of New Brunswick enjoyed water communi- cation, and got freights at such extremely low rates as to secure a reduction of those of the Intercolonial. Where he (Mr. Snowball) lived, he had to pay $60 to $85 a car load for flour from the West, when the same could be taken ItiO miles further, to St. John, or 260 or 270 to Halifax at $20 les.s. What w>i8 the cause ? Clearly in St. John and Halifax, having to compete with such close prox- imity to the United States. The hon. mem- ber had told them that in the Lower Pr3v- inces, previous to Confederation, they were not educated to taxation. He was perfectly right. They were, however, apparently going to be taxed enough now. The Finance Minister had staked his re- putation that they would not be taxed un- der Confederation above $2.75 per head; to-day it was up to $t5.14 in New Bruns- wick, and, after the tarifi" got into force, would be up to $9. He was surprised at the hon. gentleman making those changes, since his constituency would be so greatly affected by them. Hon. gentlemen op- posite had observed that he had excelled himself in this his last great effort. He (Mr. Snowball) endorsed every word of that statement. Kepresenting, as he did, a constituency almost entirely en- gaged in lumbering, fishing and ship- building, he had excelled himself in pro- ducing a tariff that would create wide- spread distress and woe notonly in his own constitutency,but the Province generally. Hon. gentlemen had stated in their speeches that Canada was in such a very deplorable condition. He would ask, was it worse than any other portion of the world 1 Was our trade utterly ruined ! Had we not one advantage to offer seeking immigrants as an induce- ment to come to our country 1 Was the po|>ulation of our country totally desti- tute t This, certainly, was what ve had come to, judging from many of the speeches we had heard. He maintained that Canada was not in a worse, but rather in a better condition than many other countries, but would not My how long it would continue .so if this i < i i I t ] t 1 t c 1 V V I 8 V q 13 obnoxious tariff waa to be forced upon it. While admitting it was suffering with all the world in the present financial de- pression, it had not that pauperism that was seen in other and older countries. It certainly was in a better condition than the United States. It had not been troubled with the great army of tramps with which our neighi)0ur8 had been afflicted. Last fall that country was infested with these marauders, and the result had been a state of things that had never existed in Canada. The Do- minion had been blessed in the past year •with an abundant harvest. Living had been cheap ; what we produced was pro- duced at a cheap rate, and our exporters had held tneir own, if they did not make money. For this we had great cause to be thankful. Several speakers, in the course of the debate, had blamed the Grit Government for the depres.sion that hud existed in Canada. Was that Gov- ernment to blame for the depression that had existed in the United States, or any other part of the world 1 In Norway and Sweden, which, like the Maritime Provinces, were particularly interested in the lumlier, 8hip])ing and fishing trades, a condition of depression existed Buch as had never been known in that country (iiuintf his experience of busi- ness, Hon. gentlemen might as well blame the Giit party for tlie plague in Russia as for the depre.ssion in Canada. Hon. gentlemen, in their zeal, appeared to decry everything pertaining to British trade, and eulogise everthing pertHining to our neighlioiirs in the South. Where did our neighbours go for money when they wanted it but to England 1 When thev got in a tight place, and were com- pelled to realise on their i)roilucts, they then had also to go to Great Britain. It was not a sign of the prosperity of the United States that they had had a large export trade during the jjast year. It rather showed that, owing to their depressed condition, tliey had been compelled to .sacrifice their products in Enropf'an markets lo meet rheir pressing wants. Figures had been brought for- ward by hon. gentlemen for the purpose of showmg the relative positions of the United States and England. He de- sired to refer to these arguments, and he 'W4)uld tike the figures which had been quote I by hon. gentlemen. They were told that the total exports from the United SUites were $694,884,000. They were largely raw materials, and when these mateiials were Hhipped to Europa the tendency of parties owning the goods was to over-value them. They invoiced them at prices above what they actually expected to receive, and above what th«y actually did receive. A reduction of 25 per cent, might be safely made u^on the total amount of the exports, to bring them down anything near the value actually realised, but taking off 20 per cent, the exjjorts of the United States would be reduced to $555,907,000. They had imported during the same period $4:j7,000,000 worth of goods. They knew that, in view of the tariff of the United States, the tendency in importing goods was to undervalue them. Large American importei"8 had their own agents in the European markets who re-invoiced their shipments at a reduced rate, perfectly understood by the house on this side of the Atlan- tic. Proof of this tendency h id lately been afforded in the proceedings against an extensive American house whicli had imported a large line of gloves, which were seized, and found to have been invoiced about 25 i)er cent, below their real value. They might safely add 20 per cent, to their iinpt)i'ts to allow for this undervaluation. Tlien they had to take into consideration the 'amount paid for carrying. It was estimated that the United States paid .SI 30,000,000 to foreign bottoms for carrying their goods annually. To this, also, was to bo added the interest they paid to foreigners on their national debt, and then they would find a oalance of trade of $126,500,000 against the United States. The result was really much larger than that. Now look at the other side. The exports of Great Britain were £355,000,0(»0 ster- ling, and the imports £272,000, ,O00,0i)0. They had. Iioweve*', to look to the value of the gooda in the (lifTerent periods. Th»*y knew that thei-e had been a material falling otf in the value of all goods in their market. In iron, for instance, thei-e had been a reduction in the price of over one half, and c al. which, in '187?, sold at from "Jt»a. to SOs. per ton, could be bought in 1877 for is. Gd. to 6s. 6d. per ton. In view of this reduction in value, they might safely take 25 per cent, from the imports of 1872 for shrinkage in value, which would bring the aniouncdown to £235,1)4 1,000, as against £.'52,3 I6,00i>, the value of the exports in 1877, leaving a balance in favour ot Knglaud. at the present time, of £16,000,000 sterling. Wliilst he ad- mitted that England was sufieiing, he claimed that she whs in a better con- dition, proj>ortioiiately, than most other countries. She had sliipped a great**r bulk of goods in 1877 than in any previous year. The statement that England was getting tired of her Free-trade policy was without foundation. He reiiieinliered, a tew years ago, that fears were entertained that Germany was going to deprive Eng- land of her small- ware traite. It was of very short duration, however, and was not sustained. Then Belgium was going to take a\va\ her iron trade, but that 'eai- was found to be not well gioumled. Next came the cry tliat France was going to control the sugir retiniiig, but tliat also proved to lie a fallacy. The statement that America was going to supersede England in the cotton trade had even b en made on the Uoor of the House. He knew that, a few years since, a large quMuiity of American piece goods were Bent into the English market. Tl e American papers made a great cry aliout it, and this, actin;? as an advertinemeiit, liatuially attiai;'ed attention. He knew th;it a large quantity of these goods, alter lyinj^ in Manchester and other parts or Kuglaud for many years, were found utterly unable to compete with goods of Inglish manufacture, and they were actually Bhi|)ped b.tck to the United States. He couM assure them that Etig- land was holding her own, and wag in cpiite as good a condition as any other country in the world. The present com- plaint in England arose fi-oin stock farmers. They complained that Canada and the United States were taking the fresh ni'at trade out of their iiands, which complaint found additional weight in view of the present tariff. We four millions of people, scattered over a vast extent of territory, could do but little to improve the trade of the world, and with- out the trade of the world improving, we cenld not improve; Eniploymont must first he found for our sliips, and a mar- ket abroad for our lumber, graiti, fish and other exports, without which the trade of Canada would not improve. From the debate, he inferred that the party who had l>een most imposed upon during the elections was the farmers. The tendency of the ]iresent surplus population of our towns and cities was to go on farms and 8U])ply themselves with food to eit, at least. The policy of Canada was to encourage tlie immi- gration of a farming population to settle our great North-VVest, which we ha I been intormed could produce wheat and cattle suHicient to supply tho whole world. When that was done, and this supply came^ in in addition to tho pre- sent abundant supply, it would bring the prices of these commodities down to a point never before dieattit of. That was Canada's present policy towards our lariiiiug population Tf wo must have Protection, he would like to get it in small doses, .so as only to nauseate, luit not kill. He would cite a few figures given by tlie Finance Minister a fnw evenings ago. Carri iges were imported annually into tliis counlry to the extent ol !$-SG,000. A high duty might natur- ally It? put on these, without sacrificing the labouring or farming population. We had all the wood an1 iron and raw mat"rial used in this manufacture, and eoukl employ in that industry more people than in the sugar refinery and other tilings talked of. He would tolerat^ a outy of 10 J per ci-nt., or a heavy speeiHc duty on carriage--', that would keep the foreign article out of tlio 16 iiig to lat country. Then came the article of cluckn, of which $65,000 worth were ini|H)rterl. Those eoiiM be taxeil to any anioiiiit, so a'l to keep the mun'ifHCtiirn entir«^ly witliin oui'selves. Of furniture, f39y,0,00(\(iOO. What had been domi for shipliuilding under the new tariH"? It was atjited though the amount of tax- Was increased, that this was to be returneil in the of a drawback. In looking over this list he found there was a tax of from five to thirty |)er cent, on many materials used in shipbaihling. How weie shipbuilders going to get those ttixes back ; a shipbuilder wanting a few tons of iron might get it at the Londonderry mines, or from a dealer in our cities. What did he know al)Out the amount of duty paid on these goods? He bought hinges,cordage, etc., and small wares from dealers, and, when his ship was ready, asked for a drawimck on the materials. Kroni his (Mr. Snowball's) experience, it wiis very difficult to get drawimcks, one ot the conditions buing that the appli- cant must swear that he actually paid duty on those goods. It was iiiipossible for that man to make a statement which woidd enal'le him to recover the draw- back. He c.tnKl not distinguish »'etween the ])Oi'tion manufactured here and that imported ; nor coiild lie swear to the value at which the imported portion Wfus purchased. He could not make the necessary adidavit, and would find when his slii|» was ready to gj to sea, that he would not get a dollar. How was the Hsliermaii provided lor in this taritt"? On the free list they found ids hooks, nets and lines, twines and .salt, but those articles had always been nee, so that the fisher- men had nothing to tiiank the [iresenc .Miidstry f a- in that. His floin , every- ohing he ate, drank and wore, wan taxed. Hecoulil not buy his Jiicket to the value ■ )t lOs. .sterling, witliout paying $_'. 01 into he Treasury. The fisherman want(d pio- ection ai;ainst the Amerieans who cone with purse-seines to his very doors unl \' 16 literally swept the fish from the sea. They snrroiindocl everything in the water, gathered theio up, culled out a few mackerel or such fish as they required, leaving the surface of the ba/8 for miles strewed witii (U-ad fish, the very fish our fishei- men expt*cted to get. He next came to tlie luinher interest, a very impor- t>nit interest. We exported, in 1877, $27,124,000 w..rth of lumber, but not a sufficient proportion, as many people Hup, osed, to give us the control of the markets of the world. The im- ports of lumber into Great Britain, in 1877, were $-5,000,000, but $27,000,000 of which came from the Dominion. What Protection did lumber get 1 As had been proved by the hon. member for Queen'.s, it was taxed 60c. per 1,000 superficial feet, under the new tariff, in addition to the 70c. under the old tarilf, which, with the 8Uc. im;.osed by the Local Legislature of New Brunswick mtde a total tax of $2.10 per .M., or 52c. per tree. Tliis was a gi'eat iiardship, an amount of tax- ation whicli thfse i)eople cmld not stand. He held a document from a person engaged in the trade, showing the cost of a quantity of goods tiiat lie iinj)orteil a few weeks since actually go- ing into that trade. Wliat vlid he find in this statement ■! He heard liis hou. friend, the otht r evening, say that the advance on cottons and woollens was only 2^ pel' cent. The very first thing in tliis invoice was a bale of fiannels wliicli cost X">3. 28. Under the old tnriff the dutv would have been 17| per cent., or $4t 80. Under the new tariff it Wivs as follows : — Tiie goods weighed 320lb. at 7Jc. per pound, and 20 per cen*-., makiu'jf the total amount $~f).6d, or an advance of 70 per cent. Tlie next item was a bale of cottons, valued at JEG3. is. lOd. sterling; at tiie old duty of I7i per cent, $r).3.J0. Under the new tariff, it was $102.17, or 95 per cent, of an advance on the old tariff. The ne.vt item was a bale o: winc-t^ys, .£25 '.)s. lOd. sterling, at 1 7i per cent.. $21 ; under the new tarill", $4'i.72, an advance of" 115 per cent. The next bale was also winceys of cheajjer quality, costing £19 14.^ 5<\. sterling. Under the old tariff, the duty would be $16.10, while under the new one it was $37.98, making a difference of 135 )^r cent. He would like to know how this was going to be contradic.ed. In every item he was prepared to go down to the minutest particulars. The next was a bale of bed- ticks, which cost £11 10s 6d., and they paid, under the old tariff, $9.80, and under the new, $16.72, there being a difference of 72 per cent. The next was a piece of serge to make a summer suit for the importer himself. Of course, he had money to pay for it ; he was not a labourer, and thei e was a little consider- ation shown him. On this article, the duty, under the old tariff, was $4.20, and under the new, $6.15, cr under 47 per cent, advance. The next was a bill of small wares. The only thing in which there was a saving was a case of threads costing £13 18s. 9d. ; umler the old tariff the duty was $11.90; under the new, $8 50, showing a saving of $3.40. Taking the whole invoice, the duties under the old tariff were $2.{3.28 ; under the new, $109.94, or an advance of over 75 jier cant. There were other things to the detiiment of the [»oor lum- berman. He was afraid they did not vote light in the last election. Pussibljr that was the reason the new tarilf bore so heavily upon the:ij. Sup[)osing he wanted to buy a jacket, he would have to [)ay duty for it $2.04. The average weight would be 71b., at 10c. per pound, making 70c. Allowing it to cost 1 6s. — the lowest cost for a })aiisable jacket — the duty on this, at 25 per cent., would be $1. Allowing the trader 20 pel' tent, on his investments. 34c., would make the cost $2.04 to the purchaser. A pair of idaukets, by the same, calcula- tion, the uilders, the car- , 'enters, the lumbermen, the fishermen. He would like to know how his hon. friend was going to show thut we were not going to be grossly taxed beyond what we were able to Ircar. It had lieen >aid tiiat we could make use of the bond- ing system in bringing goods from the 17 laser. and It the air of light, le ad- pnuny Icoun- kation keo|>le |a car- riTien. hon. were l^yond lieen Ibond- the "West. This was a system that many are unable to understand. He predicted that this bonding difficulty would be found groat enough to divert trade from the West from us, and compel it to find its way to the sea through other chan- nels at a serious loss to the Dominion. He was surprised to hear the assertion that the Grand Trunk Railway, that great artery of communication between the East and the West, would, in the future, undertake this bonding system free of charge. Could it be supposed that they would gratuitously undertake the labour of bonding, in addition to the risk they would have to assume. It was an insult to the British people whose money was invested in that railway, to suppose that they would consentto assume this extra trouble and expense when this very tariff would ruin their Canadian trade. It would be an insult to ask them to bond our own goods at their expense. He repeated the whole tariff would \>e a burden on the people ot the Maritime Provinces. They were an industrious and aelf-reliant people, but they would not be able to bear these new burdens. He had no sympathy with those who talked of England's trade and commerce declining. Hon. gentlemen might believe it, but he could not. He was proud of that old land which had nourished and sustained us in our colonial infancy, and he hoped we were all proud to cl-iim her as our parent. He hoped her flags would never cease to wave over us. Talk of Eng- land's power waning. Her enemies might hope so. But look at her to-day, and the giant that guided her des- tinies, as she swayed her 3cei)tre over the greatest empire on eaith. She was the wonder and teiTor ot the world. A. ter- ror to evil-doers, and a tower of strength to those who would do well. MH. I. BX7HFI3B. April 4.lh, 1S70. Mr. BURPEE (St. John) said, refer- ring to the resolution now iu tlie Speaker's hands, it would neern that but little more could be sttid on the subject. However, the policy now being pursued by the Government, being 2 ft revolutionary one, as had been stated by the hon. member for Ottawa (Mr. Tass6), it seemed the duty of every member oj)posed to such a retrograde step to enter a protest against the tariff now being introduced by the Ministei of Finance. Nearly all the hon. mem- bers opposite who had spoken upon the question seemed to think, b(!causo they had been retuinod to power by the cloc- tioTi of the 17 th September last, that the question of Protection was settled, and should bo accepted by the House without any remonstrance from those opposed to it. No such proposition as was now submitted to the House was submitted to the people during the last election, nor would the party now leading the House have dared to take such a tariff to run the elections on, particularly so in the Maritime Pro- vinces. When it was announced in New Brunswick that a 35 per cent, taiiff was to be propo.sed by the now leader of the Government, if his party succeeded to power, immediately a telegram was sent to Sir John A. Macdonald asking him if such was the case. He im- mediately answered that the assertion was an absurd falsehood, and that he had never pioposed an increase but only a readjustment of the tariff. Did not the Minister of Finance, among his consti- tuents in St. John, repudiate any in- crea.sed taxation ? Did he not, on three different occasions, in his camj/aign s])ef!che3, repudiate Protection as their policy ] Did he not say he would hdve voted af;Minst a duty on Hour, meal, coal, etc., if he had bfon in P.u'liament in 1873. thus leading them to suppose he would do so in 1879 ? Thti-elbre ho (Mr. Burpee) denied that this matter was settled on the 17th of Sei»tem'oor. At that Limn the question of Protection, as submitted to the House noT-, was not b&fore the people. Tliere were a large num- ber in this Iloube, and a very large proj!urtiou of iJto people, (;ntii-»ly opposfi' to it. In Ontario it had, no doubt, form el part of the i.b.'-;up, but in Quebec another })Ower!'ul intlueuce hud tiu-ped tho elcctioHK, and, as for Nov.a Seoti:!, >7ew Biuupwick and Prince VA- ward iHiiicid, if this tariff hud be^en placed fairly beforo the electors, they would have ifj«ctcd it and the men who 18 Bupportod it, a? unsuitable to their in- terestH, as he believed it was to the intercRts of the whole Dominion. He went further, and said that this tariff was diametrically opposed to the understand- ing with which the various Provinces en- tered into Confederation, and he was quite sure tlie people of the Lower Provinces, had it been presented to them at that time, would not have entered the Union, neither would Great Britain have consented. The Opposition believed that manufacturers, under a revenue tariff, which would enable them to import their raw material free, had prospered, and would prosper more than under this system of Protection that was now im- posed upon the country. This was the reason, he contended, why our manufac- turers had suffered less during the de- p:;:.:.i:"cn *-ii available lands, and every material advantage, and yet, by a wrong system of legislation and economic policy, tho people have succeeded fcr many years past in making it one of the dearest in the world in- stead of the cheapest." He (Mr. Bui-pee) would point out that the result of Protection was to make the rich man richer, and the poor man poorer ; to tax the great consuming class of our country, to make the necessaries of life dear, to divert labour and capital from natural to artificial channels, to draw the farming population from the rural districts into cities and towns, and to injure the labouring classes by enhanc- ing the price of everything they used. He asked what was the first thing tho manufacturer did when commercial de- pression came upon him ? He did not first seek to curtail his own and other expenses, but looked around to see first how many men he could dismiss, and next how far he could reduce the wages of those he retained. This was the way he curtailed his expenses, and it was the man who depended upon his daily wages who suffered. The Finance Minister had stated there had been a grefit depre- ciation in the value of our importations. This was true, and he (Mr. Burpee) was glad he had admitted it, and that was a proof of what those now in Opposition had said over and over again, that, if that depreciation had not occurred, there had been goods enough imported during the past three or four years to prevent any deficit taking place, and there would have been none. He was satisfied that Canada had not been such a slaughter market for the United States as the Finance M inister had supposed. When representations of that kind had been made to the late Government, they took 19 and he) was was a position. , if that jre had ling the ^nt any would bJ that lughter as the When Id been ly took pains to ascertain how far goods coming from the United States were under- vahied, and the list of prices in New York was repeatedly sent to Custons oflScers. with instructions to collect the revenue upon the value there given. A specific complaint had been made by a manufacturer of weights and scales in Canada that imported American scales were largely undervalued. The Govern- ment had m\de investigations at the seve- ral ports, which convinced the manufac- turer himself that he was wrong in his impression, and he wrote the Depart- ment to that effect. He (Mr. Bur]>ee) believed that the expectation of the Fi- nance Minister that the price of tea would ba reduced under the new regula- tions would not be realised. Facilities would be aflforded to importers to import direct through the TJiufcfwl Rvc^^s in bond, and the whole tea trade of the country would perhaps come in that way. Only two small lots of tea, he believed, had come direct by the St. Lawrence since Confederation, so that tlie 10 per cent, differential duty, as against the United States, would not give the consumer one sJnyle cent advantajjo that he had not now. The drawback system, which the Finance Minister offered to manufacturers to encourage the exportation of manufac- tured goods, he thought would result in f o much trouble and expense to manufac- turers that the amount of their drawback would be consumed in obtaining it. The Finance Minister had stated in his for: mer speech that Canada, under the last tariff, levied a duty on merchandise from Great Britain of 17^ per cent, while she levied only 10 per cent, on goods from the. United States, thus conveying the impre.ssion that Canada in her trade was favouring the United States as against Great Britain. This statement WdS not fair and was misleading. In his calcula- tions, he (Mr. Tilley) included $13,500,000 worth of grain and bread- stuffs, $12,000,000 worth of which was the production of tlie United States, and passed through Canada in transitu, des- tined for the European market, while giving Canada the great benefit of the carrying trade, and should not enter into such a calculation for dutiable purposes. He also included settlers' effects and coin and bullion, $1,300,000, making in all $13,300,000, and V hich should bo deducted from his stateii.ent as to United States goods. Whate er discrimination existed in fa- vour of one country over another by the old tariff had been made larger against Great Britain by the taritT the Finance Minister was asking them to j)a8s. The goods paying duty was alike, 20 percent., but the free list from the United States was much larger than from Great Britain. The proportion on the free list from the United States was larger now than before as against Great Britain. The Finance Minister had said that English goods paid 17^ per cent., while United States goods ])aid but 10 per cent. The fair statement of the case, including dutiable and free imports, would be as follows : — Dutiable and free goods imported from Great Britain. $37,451,180 LcsH coin and bullion and settlers' etTects 301,000 $:'.7, 130,180 The duties amounting to 17 J i)or cent. Of this total amount there were — Dutiable goods $32.1 30.783 Free goods 5,201,391 $37,431,180 Dutiable and free goods imported from the United States $48,626,189 Less coin and bullion. .$ e, from Great Britain 181 per cent., and from tlie United States ll| per cent., as against 17;^ and ISA. But to show the further discrimination against Great Britain under the tariff Bubuiitted, they must take into considera- tion tho increased duty to be levied on imports from each country, which would be found to bo an uicreased duty over the former tariff, on goodd from Great Britain lOJ i)er cent., and ou goods from tho United States but 5 per cent., as he would explain presently in detail. The Finance Minister sulraitted to the House a statement showing the imports of certain cksses of goods from Great Britain and the United States, showing $28,G0G,691 from the United States, and $17,983,.32I from Great Britain, the object being to show our large importa- tions from the United States. The Minister, in this statement, had included the $13,500,000 of goods in transUn through Canfula. He had also includetl raw cotton and other raw materials still left on the free list, which would redvice the $28,606,000 from tho United States, to $ 1 3,000,000. There were other it^nis that would roiluce it still further. The hen. gentleman's statement was, there- lore, not correct, but greatly misleading as to the true state of trade. Th(< taxa- tion proposed in li.o tariff submitted to the House would either place upon the people, for revenue purposes or take out of their pockets something over seven niil- lions of dollars. lie did not mean to ,sar that this would go into the revenue, but for the first year or two probably be- tween three and foTir mliliomi of it would. The year 187h:-0 would not reeeive much or any benefit from tliin, but revenue would be iiicreaseil fiom 3i to 4 rnillkms during the }iext following two or tii.ee years, and the Indance vtcuUI be a diriict tax on tho people. Ho \. ould give the details to which Lo Lad rei'eir'Hi, lc<7S, The dutiable Lo Lad b.ised on tho imporcati(jns of as shown by the trade returns, increased duty [on spcf^ifio $189,997 on goods from Great Britain, and $54,097 on goods from the United States. The total increased duty under tho tarifl on goods subject to specific and ad valorem duty would be $584,730, made up of $294,730 on English goods, and $290,000 on American goods. Tho total increased duty on the 20 per cent, list would be $33,447, made up of $11,447 on English, and $22,000 on American goods. TJio total increased duty on goods on the 17^ per cent, list, which had been raised to 20 per cent., would be $388,093, made up of $233,300 on British, and $154,793 on American goods. On goods formerly paying 17i per cent., and now on the 25 per cent, list, the total increased duty woidd be $247,885, made up of $99,285 on English, and $148,600 on American goods. On goods v^hich formerly paid 17i per cent., and now on the 35 per cent, list, the total increased duty would be $503,296, made up of $346,375 on British, and $156,912 on American goods. On goods formerly on the 17 J per cent, list, and now on tho 35 per cent list, the total increased duty would be $87,454, made up of $6,730 on British, and $80,734 on American goods. On cottons, on which the duty was now, on an avoiage, at least 33^ per cent., and formerly 17^ per cent., the total in- creased dutv would be .$1,115,467, made up of $700,000 on British, and $415,467 un American goods. On woollen goods the duty was now 35 per cent, at lea.st, formerly 17 J per ch to 16 per cent. 'I'lio duty on founders' raw material was in- cre'Lsed from 4 to 15 [>er cent., and oa shipbuilders' material from 2 to 7 per cent., ami so on all through the list. Therefore, besides tho labouring classes, who were largely burdened by these taxes, the manufacturers themselves were burdened l)y an increase of duties on their raw material. Tho goods entered on tlie free list last year were valued at $30,61 9,000, and this year would be valued at $10,000,000 in round numbers. The free list in the United States was very large, showing how freely they encour- aged manufactures in this way. The goods so entered last year were valued at $171,000,000. Hence, he maintained that this tariff was not in the interest of any class in the community, while it was particularly burdensome on the labouring class, tho lumbering interest, shipbuild- ing and the foundry interest, and especially upon the ])eople of the Mari- time Piovinces. The people of New Brunswick consumed more dutiable goods than any other Province in the Do- minion in proportion, excepting British Columbia, which stood in about the same position. They paid more to the revenue than the jieople of any other Province, and under the tariff their burdens, in this respect, would be increased more in proportion than would be the case in other parts of the Domin- ion, and they would feel it more heavily. Last year, and in 1876, they paid $7.76 per head to the revenue, including all taxes for Federal purposes, and this tariff would further increase tlieir bujdens at least $2.50 per head. It was consequently the duty of every member on the Oppo- sition side of the House, and particulailj of those from the Lower Provinces, to n protest iiH Htroii^ly us |ioHMi)i1o a|^«i!iHt this iiicrniHe of tHXutiuii on thoii- people. Tlio Fiiinnco Minister, undnr tho iisHiinip- tiun of wanting tu riUHo $'2,100,()(>0, liiul Bubmitttn] a tariti' to thin JIou8<> to tax thu poopl(* of tliiM Dominion to the enor- mous amount of ;87,O0O,()()0. TL(«y w«;io not led tu f!iip[)OHu that this would botliu cane at (Confederation, or tu believe that the country would bo eonimittod to a highly protective tariff like this, in the faoo of our eonnoction with the Mother fJountry, with whom wo had Free-trade. It was unfair to England, as well as to Canada, and such a pro)>08itioQ would not have l)een recognised at the time of the Union. In view of the fact that England's ports were oi)en to us, and we had the advantage of Free trade with Great Britain, the discrimination the proposed taritf imposed against lier, as well as the evil consequences, and the enormous biudens it placed on the people of the Dominion, it was the duty of the people of Canada to protest vigorously against the resolutions submitted by the Minister of Finance. MH. O-ILILiMOH. ApHl 4t.h, 1879. Mr GILLMOR said the condition of parties was very much changed since the last Parliament. He did not envy the hon. gentlemen who occupied the Treasury benches or their supporters. If they had attained a majority lay fair and honest representations, they were entitled to their position, and he did not envy them under these circumstances. If they deceived the peo))le, and owed their position to misrepresentation, he envied them still less. He had never, during the five years he sat in Parlia- ment, made reference to his own consti- tuency, although lie had seen members bringing in their own local diffi- culties ; but he must say, now, with reference to his constituency, that the contest there was not waged on the policy now being discussed. The canvass made by his opponent was against himself per- sonally, and the late Administration. The National Policy, as now presented, was but diralv hinted at. He had the honour of having, atnong his conntitu- enta, the hon. tlie Minister of Public Works, who enjoyed an influ- ence there Ixtlonging to any gentleman occupying such an exalted position. The hon. the Minister of Finance was also one of his cMnslitueiits, and had visited his county on several occasions, aiid had received several adilrcs-ses, and replied to them ; he (Mr. Gillmor) had not had the honour of hearing him on tlio.HO occasions^ but he had read the addresses in the newspapers, and was satisfied that he only hinted at the National Policy. There was no duty upon Hour, no duty upon corn, no duty upon meal, ])romiaed in any of his addresses there. But there was one thing wliich ho promised in an address at St. Anon. friend tho Finance Minister. Every one of theni had compli- mented him, bowing low before him. While listening to them, he had been reminded of the old ma.Kim that flattery is tho food of fools. They were not fools, but "now and then even men of wit could condescend to take a bit," and sometimes a very large bit of flattery. He really pitied the hon. the Finance Min- ister while ho saw this going on. He knew it must be disagreeable to him to have every one of them, from the highest to the lowest, from tho cleverest to the least clever, feeling it to be their bounden duty to tell him what a remark- able golden calf he had set up for them, in the sliapo of this tarifl'. lie (Mr. Gillmor) was not oj)posed to a compli- ment ; lie was glad to receive one when it was merited, and sometimes he could swallow quite a large one. But, when they came to give it to a man in such quantities, in such chunks, ho thought few men, except liis hon. friend, could swallow it. He had listened to every speech that had been made since this discussion commenced. He had listened to the hon. the Finance Minister's statement when he pictiu-ed the glowing condition in which the finances of this country were when he left office in 1873, and drew a gloomy picture of their condition when he entered upon his duty now. He (Mr. Gillmor) failed to see how the late Government had made the financial condition of tliis country at all difllcnlt, when tho hon. gentleman came into ortico tho second ti.ao. It was very un- fair to try to make the country Ix'lievo that its flnaneial condition had been made worse by his predt'cessors. He did not believe fads would ju tify that assertion. How had tho late (iovern- ment made that condition any woi-se than it would have been if the hon. gen- tlenuin himself had been Finance Minis- ter during tho last five years ( Had the late Government undertaken any finiin- cial obligation during tiieir term of oflice, that would not have been e(p»aliy under- taken by the hon. gentienum and his associates if they had been in oHice ] Tho whole thing was mortguj^cd long before tho late Government caiuo into oflice. Tho hon. gentleman complained that his i)osition w is dilHcnlt owing to the linancial obligations o( this Do- minion. IJut who undertook them ? Who undertook tho obligation of build- ing tho IntercoJonial llailway ? And here he would add, he did not find fault so much with tho rail- way, but it was, nevertheless, an incubus on the finances of this country. Government had now to provide more than $1,060,000 annually, as interest on the cost of building tliat railway, and another half million to pay it.') running expenses. Who was to blame for that ] Was it the late Finance Minister 1 No ; it was the present Finance INlinis- ter and his associates who were responsible for that work. Tliere- fore, if he complained that he had to pro- vide every year for this -f 1,500,000, he had no one to blame but himself and his associates. Who undertook tho Pn'nco Edward Island Railway, which Involved a large expenditure, and entailed an oldi- gation against the Dominion of Canada ] No one but the hon. gentleman and his associates. Who undertook the Nova Scotia and New Brunswick Railways, that also increased the financial obliga- tion of this country? Who undertook the enlargement of the St. Lawrence Canals, but his hon. friend and his asso- ciates ] AVho undertook the Welland Canal, but those hon. gentlemen ] Who undertook the public works at Ottawa, and the public buildings of the Domi- nion, but his hon. friend and his asso- ciates 1 Who undertook the building of ■ Ml ■ 24 the Pacific Railway, the most desh-iictive and the most ruinous of all ] Who undertook to fix upon this Dominion that incubus of British Columbia, that exci"(^scence of Britisli C/olumbia, that can- cer, financially, of British Columbia, that was eating into our vitals and entailing a heavy financial burden upon the coun- try for i\ll time to come ? Who undertook that, but the hon. the Finance Minister and his associates'? And why was it undertaken 1 It was undertaken to meet the political necessities of the hon. gentle- man and his associates, and the rej)resonta- tion given to that Province in the arrange- ment was evidence that the whole thing was done to serve their political interests. In this Parliament, British Columbia liad six. representatives for 10,000 or 15,000 inhabitants. Upon what principle of justice or fair play could such represen- tation be defended 1 Then his hon. friend stood up and said : " Oh ! when I was Finance Minister in 1873, every- thing was rosy and beautiful ; everything was easj' ; I found it a pleasant task to be Finance INlinister then ; but now all that is changed." And so the hon. gentleman went on as if his predeces- sors had fixed all these burdens and all these obligations upon this Do- minion. But he and his associates did it themselves, and there was no body to blame for it but themselves if he found it difficult now. It was easy, during the seven years of plenty, when every thing was prosjjerous, to meet his ol)ligations. It was easy, when the revenue was roll- ing in, and he had surplus after sur[)lus. But he deserved no credit for that, and if he had continued in power up to the present time he would have deserved no censure for the deficits which ai'ose. He did not think it was fair for the hon. gentleman to charge the late Ministry with being resjionsible for those deficits. He regretted to see deficits, but what was the nature of these deficits ] Had it hurt the people any to let them keep the money in their pockets by not put- ting mote taxation on them 1 Had it burdened them 1 He knew it was un- pleasant to have deficits, and he wished it were otherwise. He supposed his lion, friends composing the late Govern- ment were exjfccting, from year to year, that there would be an improvement in the business of the counti-y ; that im- portations would be increased, and they were slow to increase the burdens of the people. He admitted now that the de- ficits might have been stopped, in part at least, by retrenchment, by stopping cei-tain })ub]ic works ; and they might have been stopped by an increa.se of taxation. He did not know what course the late Government would have adopted if they had remained in power, but he should have advised them not to increase taxation, to cut down expenditui-e wher- ever they could, and to economise. He regretted that his lion, friends had not stopped some of this expenditure when they were in power. It would have been difficult, no doubt, since these pub- lic works had lieon already cemmenced by the preceding Government, and had to be carried on to com|)letion. They had to expend $30,000,000 in order to complete the obligations which his hon. friend the present Finance Minister and his associates had entailed upon them. Tlie late Government had undertaken no great public works ; everything that could be undertaken to get populai-ity and political supjiort had been undertaken by their predecessors. The obligations had been incurred, and they had to be carried out Viy the late Government. They had to do it under very distressing financial circumstances ; they had to do it in the midst of a depi-ession of trade, of a falling revenue, and he thought they did it well. During the late election, so far as his own county of Charlotte was concerned, the canvass had been con- ducted, on the part of his opponents against the late Government, against himself, and not in favour ot the National Policy. And that was tlie way the bat- tle was fought out in the Province gen- erally. They did not pi-esent to the people tliis beautiful National Policy, but, on the contrary, they denied it. He told the people what he thought would be the policy of the Conservative party, iudaintr them from their declarations. He told them they might exjiect a duty on flour of about TiOc. a barrel, and also a duty on cornmeal ; and that, in short, in order to carry out their promises, he thought they would introduce a system of Protection. But he did not think that his hon. friend the Finance Minister told them that when he addressed them. They always denied, when he (Mr. Gill- 25 con- iPlltS linst omil bat- gcn- "the licy, He ould u-ty, ions, uty also lort, he tern tliat told lem. GUl- mor) met them, that such taxes would be increased ; thoii- statement was that they were going to readjust the tariff. The result was that the i)eoi)le gave them a very large m.ijonty. As to the public works undertaken by the late Govern- ment, he dill not know of any consider- able extent, except the Chambly Canal, and St. Peter's Canal in Nova Scotia, and the Duffer-.n breakwater, the largest in New Brunswick. Those were all they had undertaken ; therefore, he thought that the Finance Minister could not truly state that the embarrassed condi:ion of the «ountry was due to the late Government. Such talk might gain him, however, the sympathy ot the public in his present difficult position. He had got what he worked for ; and, if the country was financially dejiressed, and required a large revenue, he and his associates were the men who brought about that state of things. In saying this he (Mr. Gillmor) knew that nothing he could say — that not the best logic and greatest elo- quence — could change a vote on this ques- tion. The question of Free-trade and Protection had bien laboured to death ; the views and statis*^ics exjjosed to decry Free-tiade simply amounted to nothing. The people would judge of the question for themselves. He hiul listened to aV)le and eloquent arg\iments last Se.ssion.from the hon. member for Stanstead (Mr. Cob y), and, this Session, from the hon. member for Richmond and Wolfe (Mr. Ives), in favour of Protection ; if their premises had been sound, which they were net) theirdeductions would have been conclu!: Lve. But they had not, Vjecause unsound, convinced him. He believed Protection was wrong in princi])le, and no amount of argument or reasons coiild make it right. It had been proved, by jn'actical experience, incorrect. He knew the effect of Free-trade in Great Britain, and he thought the best evidence that Free-trade was correct was its adoption by the Mother Country, by statesmen who understood the question much better than Canadian Protectionists. Every- body knew that England's advance in wealth, commerce, manufacturing, and trade, since the adoption of Free-trade, had astonished the world. The United States prosperity, of late, had been m>ich talked of ; but there was no '^Taparison between it and that of England, which had exported last year $1,250,000,000 of manufactures — that being about the an- nual volume of her trade in this department. She sent her manufactures to every country, town, and hamlet on the face of the globe. Protection had not given her that prosperity. In order to succeed in a similarway, Canadians must adopt the principle that would render articles cheaper here than they could be made anywhere else. Talk about Pro- tectionist victories in the United States, because the Americans might send a little cotton to Manchester and hardware to Sheffield, for an experiment, when England exported to the States twelve million dollars' worth more of her manufactures than they sent to all the world besides 1 Talk about Ensjland being outdone in the markets of the world. It was absurd. It suited hon. gentlemen on the Ministerial side to harp upon the topic of American superiority ; it would not be strange if, in time, the Americans should be able to compete with Great Britain in some particular manufactured article, but that would not be an argument for her return to Protection. Look on the two systems as regards their effects on United States commerce. How was it that, during a revenue tariff in the United States, they had vessels enough of their own to carry the larger proportion of their imj)orts and exports to and from foreign countries — 70 to 90 per cent. ? What was the re- sult of Protection 1 That they carried but 2G per cent, of that trade now ; the most money-making part — the carrying trade — having been transferred to foreigners. With regard to tlie d(>pres- sion, he believed tliat, though not a great many were rich, there w^s less real poverty and suffering in the Dominion than in any other country. But, untler this tarifi", they were going to have no poverty at all. During ]irevious Sessions the idle workingmen of Ottawa would come to the then Minister of Public Works (Mr. Mackenzie) for relief, and, when it was refused, he (Mr. Gillmor) would hear some one in the crowd cry, " Hurrah for Sir John A. Macdonald !'' That wfis the object of such demonstra- tions, and they had their effect. There was no danger of Great Britain so long rs'she adhered to Free-trade — nor wa.s viie to '6 any danger Protection. SI le of her return occupied the 28 proudest position in the world ; and, t'.iough not possessing all the virtues, had the right system of trade, and controlled the commerce of the seas, and, without any desire to parade his loyalty, he said — long might it be so ! In commerce " Others miglit claim the ocean for a road, Inglaad alone could make it her abode." His notes now brought him to the most unpleasant part of the subject — the eflects of the tariff in New Brunswick. He could see some bright spots for Ontario, and the manufacturing districts of Que- bec, and for the Pictou portion of Nova Scotia, but not a spai-k of light or ray of hope for the Province he represented ; her prospect was grinding taxation from first to laflt, and he was glad the Ke- formers were not the party inflicting it on New Brunswick. Had he the silver tongue of the Finance Minister — were he a Brutus and Brutus Antony — here an Antony would ruflle up their spirits and put a tongue in every wound, to cry down that accursed tariff. The Finance Minister could smile. He knew his part well. In all the vicissitudes of fortune he never fell except, like the cats, upon his feet. No matter how much taxation New Brunswick groaned under, he was sure to have his purple and fine linen and fare sumptuously every day. Although there were very few people in New Brunswick that wanted food, a good many were glad to get Indian meal. Ho knew that this tariff meant nothing but taxation to the jieople of that Province. It had no redeeming feature, and was brought forward by one of the most favoured sons New Bruns- wick ever had, and who had been exalt- ed, step by step, to his present position. He (Mr. Gilluior) would rather take his spado and hoe, and toil and live the rest of his days in humble poverty with the poorer classes of New Brunswick, than occupy the proud position of Finance Minister, as that hon. gentleman did, and receive the fulsome laudations and flattery of which he had been tiie reci- pient, and inflict such a curse on that Province. Call this tarifl' an elephant ! It was more like the beast described in the Scriptures that had seven heads, ten horns, and red Morocco nostrils. Mr. PLUMB : That would be an in- tomperate beast. calculations and purpose were well Mr. GILLMOE. said he siw no re- dress for New Brunswick, and yet the Finance Minister was largely responsible for bringing her into Confederation. That hon. gentleniai arguments for that known. He (Mr. Gillmor) remembered him telling the people that their Pro- vince would be the manufacturing centre of the Dominion ; /)wing to their being on the seaboard, and possessing abundant raw materials and unrivalled water- l)ower. All this they still possessed, but none of the Finance Minister's pr&- dictions had been i-ealised. They had streams in New Brunswick still, which ran as crooked, noisy and shallow as the api^eals of that hon. gentleman. He had told the people that, in the Union, their taxation could not exceed $3 a head in a quarter of a century. But, before ho last went out of office, it was up to $6 a head, and now, with no manufacturing establishments yet, it would, under this tariff, r\in up to $9 a head. They could not carry a single constituency in Nevr Brunswick ui>on this tariff. He had re- ceived letters from that Province making strong appeals against the policy of the hon. gentlemen opposite. There was not an industry in New Brunswick that got any relief from this tariff. It was taxa- tion from end to end. The effect on the lumber trade, which, as hon. gentle- men knew, was one great industry of that Province, would be such as to stop it altogether ; and yet the people of New Brunswick were asked to submit to this enormous taxa- tion, in order to build up the North- West and British Columbia. He pre- dicted, to-day, that nine out of every ten who voted for Confederation now wished they were out of the Union. Every pre- diction that had been made by those who opposed Confederation had been more than fulfilled to the letter. His hon. fiiend the Finance Minister had not a majority from New Brunswick, but he ought, out of gratitude for what that Province had done for him, to have de- clined to take part in forcing upon them this obnoxious tariff. Ho (Mr. Gillmor) did not believe in Protection, and ho thought that when the people of his Province came to look at the question properly, they would, to a man, refuse to be coerced into a system that was pnr- 27 taxa- th- pre- ten islied pre- who more hon. ot a it he that 1 de- them mor) d he f his sBtion ise to p^^r- fectly ruinous to them. He M-as glad that liis hon. friend the leader of the late Government had not allowed himself to retain power by adopting this Protective system, had not sought the favour of the manufacturer by adopt- ing a policy that would enrich a few at the expense ot the rest, and particularly at the expense of the Maritime Provinces. This tariff was oppressive to every indus- try in the Province of New Brunswick. The hon. gentleman had put a duty on potatoes, when he must have known that, perhaps, not more than 15 or 20 bushels of potatoes were imported into that Province annually, and that these were used for seeding purposes. That would not help them in the least, and as an offset they put a tax on everything else. In the county where he resided, last year, more than half of the gang saw mills had been unable to run. If the principle of Protection were right, why had not the hon. gentlemen on the Government side tried it years ago, when they were able to bear it 1 He thought it most absurd to introduce such a system of taxation, at a time when labouring men had no work, and there was a depression in evsry branch of industry. In his con- stituency this tariff was going to be abso- lutely ruinous. He knew of some manu- facturers who had inte.ided to erect grist mills, but when they heard of this tarift' they had abandoned the idea. He felt more like weeping over the condition of the country, than talking of it. He did not think that the Finance Mxnister de- served the credit he claimed for having consultetl a great many people on the formation of this tariff. This was the relief this tariff proposed to give, and there were the gentlemen who had been consulted — the last men who ought to be consulted. The Finance Minister should liave consulted the workingmen, not the grown rich on the ind US- good deal had men who had tries of the country, been said with regard to the slaughter- market, the imaginary evil which aftticted the country. He (Mr. Gillmor) had lived in Charlotte, a county bordering on Maine, and had never seen a single article of goods slaughtered there. Three sets of harness came in once, but they were understood to have been fraudu- lently obtained. Suppose the Americans did slaughter their goods in our markets, would not his hon. friend take advantage of that 1 Would they not buy their cottons, or anything else that the Americans came in to sell them, at prices under cost ? He denied that they had done more than their interests conij)clled them to, and if Protection had done for them what it was credited with, they need not have come here at all. This tariff was going to increase the burdens of New Brunswick to an enormous ex- tent. The increase in New Brunswick, under the new tariff, on the im])orts of 1878, would be as follows : — . Valup. Increase, Specific list on which 'liities were collected, 1878 $218,091 ?35,335 Ad valorem. ... 398,425 39,998 25 p. c. list, on which duties were collected, 1878 8,255 1,640 I7i p.c, increased to 20, do 1,327,379 3t,163 17 J do. 25, do. 499.575 37,413 17J do. 30, do. 862,179 107,377 17J do. 35, do 253,616 44,387 Different rates do. 165,782 17,260 Cotton goods, incr'd 16 J p.c. 646,686 101,210 Woollen goods, 18J p.c. 1,01 2,861 184,810 Goods increased 10 p c. 105,690 11,345 Goods increased 5 p.c. 457,937 61,820 Free list !.. 392,431 59,182 Coal, 32,565 tons 104,265 16,282 Grain 19,769 2,536 Flour and meal 532,441 52,224 114,000 tons Nova Scotia coal, .50c. p.t. 57,000 300,000 barrels Hour, from Canada. . . . 150,000 $1,013,000 or a total increase of over one million dol- lars additional taxation lor which the Province got no return. With i-efer- enco to coal, the idea i)revailed that be- cause a country was blessed by Pi-ovi- dence with a coal mine, the Government must, at once, make it dearer to the people than if they had not a coal mnie. Because we had agricultural facilities, the Government must go to work and enact a tariff that would make every- body's food dearer, and because we had manufacturing facilities, every article of manufacture must be made dearer. He was a little surprised that the hon. mem- ber for Pictou seemed to be somewhat dissatisfied. He was disposed to kick against the tariff. There was' not the shghtest danger of one of the team kicking. They would every one vote for it, their leaders had them well in hand, and 28 " Could cast them off as a liuntsraan his pack, Fortliey knew when tliey liked they could whistle tliem baik.'' No matter how much they biirdened Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, the taiirt" must be accepted there. He was a little amused at the manner in which his Tory frien- tionally hard. It was a fact that New 29 Brunswick, like British Columbia, paid more Customs dues, in proportion to her population than other portions of the Dominion, and must, therefore, pay a larger portion of the increase now about to be levied. It was perfectly right for the people and the representatives of that Province to object to it on that account. But there were other reasons of a more general nature against this measure. He believed it to he a tarifl" fra*" in the interest of the few as agaii -c the many — framed in the inter- ests of the manufacturers, who were the only class consulted. He maintained that the lumberman, the farmer, the shipbuilder, the great mass of the con- sumers should have been consulted. He objected to it, further, on the ground that high and differential duties would direct our trade out of its natural into artificial channels. They had long had a local tr^de — called the Bay of Fundy trade — between New Brunswick, the western part of Nova Scotia, and the seaports of the American Atlantic coast. The sections of the Do- minion referred to had certain products of a bulky and perishalile nature, such as sawn lumber, piles, hoo[)-poles, staves, laths, gypsum, Albertite coal, hay, pota- toes, sheeps' pelts, and other articles ■which could not be profitably sent to any other market. When New Brunswick went into Confederation, it was astipula- tion that they should have facilities for inteicoloniul trade. They were to have facilities for sending their products to the West, and for getting their products in return. The Intercolonial Railway was promised them for ■* connuercial route. The Bay Verte Canal was also promised them to facilitate that trade. The ar- ticles he had mentioned were bulky, and some of them perishable, and could not be sent the long distance of 500 or GOO miles around Nova Scotia, with profit to the U|)por Provinces. But the fact is that tlio Intercolonial Rail- way had been built by a militaiy, in- stead of a commercial, route, anle of the city and valley of the St. John, and this was the first and one of the heaviest blows that had been struck at the proKi)erity of that city and the suiroundiiig counties. The Bay Verto Canal had not been built at nil. and the want of facilities for trade with the Upper Provinces compelled them to look for a market for the products he had named, as before, to the seaports of the American coast. They were prohil)ited, by this tariff, from bringing coal, flour, tea, molasses and other articles they might require from the Americans. In this trade they fre(]uently bartered their products, for convenience and profit, in American ports. It became not only a matter of convenience and profit to the exporters, but was also required for return freights, which — ballast being re- quired — was brought at nearly nominal rates. As an instance of low rales, he mentionfed that flour had been brought from New York to Ht. John in this way at from IOj. to Tic. per barrel. He must say he did think it extremely hard that the Finance Minister, by this tariff, should crush out this triule, so important to St. John and a huge portion of the Province. He had before stated that the Province of New Brunswick paid more than a fair share of Dominion taxa- tion. This tariff would increase the indi- rect tax of tl e peojjle there about one- third. But, if they got any compensat- ing advantages, it would not be so bad. The hon. member for Cariboo had said, if the i)eople of British Colum- bia got the Pacific Railway, they would stand any amount of taxation. But New Brunswick was expecied to pay this large additional tax, and get nothing in return. He believed they would Viy .y introduced a sys- tem of taxing all the packages in which goods were i(n|)ortcd, adding some 5 per cent, on the total amount of taxes collec- ted. Now, it was uncpiestionahle that even to-day, some six months after their return to j)ower, this country was snflTering from very serious depi-ession, which they were asked to adn)it was caused by the late Administration. They were told by the Minister of Public Works, too, that iiho magnificent fabric, the; stately and beautiful and solid fabric reared by their predeces.sor8, was ruthlessly destroyed by the Viungling want of patriotism and want of ability of the Liberal Administration. That, again, was a statement entirely contrary to tho facts. What was the cause of tlu* extraordinary increase of revenue for which tho gentlemen on the other side so boldly demanded credit 1 At the clos«) of the American war, tlie whole commercial world >»a3 disturbed, and no part of it so much as Canada. The people of tho United States, finding their farms without stock, and tluMr ships and stores almost einjity, bought in Canada vast numbers of horsfces, horniiHf'y their patriotiHin and ability, with the t iiure, as tliey allej,'ed, of those who succ -led ihcni in power. Thehon. tlie Ministerofi'iihlic Works had alleged, in his usually loud tones, and Htroni.' Iani,'ua;,'e, that th(* lute Adniin- i.striition destroyed the faliric which their prcdceessorH had raisod, and that they wore responsiltle for the larj^e ex|)eiidi- turo and the di'licits which ha»l sincti occurred. Not oidy had they succeeded in ])ei'suadinL; the constituencies through- out the country, if they were t(J judj^e liy the electors, l>ut there were many lion. ni(Mnl)ers of the Ifouso who Kceined really to believt* that such was tlu; fact, that the expenditures had >;rown up to their jircsent extraordinary dimensions because of the nialadiuinistra- tion of the late (lovernment, aid that the n(!cessity for iin[K)siuj^ these new taxes had l)een occasioned liy soniethinj^or other done i)y the late Administration, or '«omethin<^ they nei;,lected to do. They had heard this statement over and over again durint; the debate ; but he (Mr. Anglin) always looked with surprisi! at every bon. gentleman so speaking, and scanned his features in order to ascertain •if he made the statement seriously, and believed, himself, what he alleged, and he (Mr. Anglin) was forced to believe that, in most cases, the hon. members ■who made those statements, were really convinced of the truth of what they said. But who was it that increased the ex- penditure ] It was increased from $12,000,000 or |1 4,000,000 during the first vears of Confederation to $2:{,006,000 or 824,000,000 in 1S73-74. This fact ajipeared clear and unquestion- able to any one examining the Public Accounts and the Estimates : that that ex- traordinary expenditure was fiast fastened on the country by hon. gentlemen op- posite. There was the increase of the subsidies to the Provinces. There was the adjustment of the debt between On- tario and Quebec. When put altogether, their Estimates for the last year they were in power were some $23,500,000nor .$24,000,000. Why, then, should the late Administration be held responHible for the increase ? Wheiv, when, or liow, h(t would ask, were the late Goveitiment responsible for that increase ? Where, when, or how did they nnike the addition which liad been inadt^ to the pt'riuaiu'nt lialiilities of the coinitry i What wan the reason that it wiis necessary, to-day, to im-rease the taxation of the country t They were tohl there was a deficit of .*2,00(),00(), ard that it w.iuld be neccH- sary to raise .«2,400,000. They w<>re told that the euiount of the fishery award was to bo absorbed in meeting existing f'air.idian lialiilities. lie agrwtd to a great extent with the lion, member from Prince Kdward Ishuul, who main- tained that that money belonged by right to the people of the Maritinu; Provinces, and more especially to the men who were engaged in the fisheries, from whom, in fact, all was taken for which that nmney was the ecpiivalent. However, that money had been taken to meet lial>ilities. He thought li(( understood, from tlui late Finance Minister, that he contemplated using that money for a similar purpose;, wheth(!r permanently or not he did not say ; and he alleged, as a justilication, the condition of the finances of the country. Ho ^Mr. Anglin) did not know that anything the late (Jovi^'uinent had ilone had rendered it necessary now to increase taxation, and tliat jiroposition was emphatically denied on his side of the House. They denied that they had in the slightest degree increa.sed the peimanent lial)ilities of the country, ex- cept to an extent that wsus unavoidable. They were compelled, in order to meet the liabilities incurred by their ])redeces- sors, and the obligations they had im- |)ose(l on the Governnumt, to borrow a large amount of money. The interest must be paid on that money, and a .sink- ing fund provided. To that extent the Government were compelled to increiv.se the pecuniary liabilities of the country. Then there was the establishment of the Mounted Police in the North-West, that he believed the previous Govern- ment themselves were prepared to estab- lish. The expense caused by this was enormous, but he thought it was regarded as a salutary measure. But, if any one of the hon. gentlemen now forming the majority of this House imagined that that expense could be disjiensed with, he "i: 88 would have an opportunity, when they came to the Estimates, of moving that the provisinn for the Mounted Police be stiU'^V out. In doing so, he would show his sincerity. It was also found neces- sary to make treaties with the Indians of the North- West. This was manifestly and obviously necessary for the purpose of maintaining peace out there, and for the ])urpose of avoiding expenditures, 8uch as the United States had long had to bear, in consequence of their ill-treat- ment of Indians on their reserves. Treat- ies had to bo made that would satisfy the Indians, at least for a time, and prevent any danger of an outbreak. The establishment of the Supreme Court was one of the expenditures lor which the country was indebted to the late Ad- ministration. He (Mr. Anglin) con- fessed that he himself never saw any necessity for the immediate establish- inent|of that Court, but all the lawyers, lie believed, on both sides of the House were very anxious for its establishment. The present right hon. Minister of the Interior, when Minister of Justice, more than once introduced a measure for the purpose of establishing that Court. The lion, gentleman failed to introduce a Bill that would satisfy the House, or satisfy liimself. He had to withdraw two Bills, because they did not meet with the ap- proval of the House, and that was the reason this Court was not established in his time. But it was established by the late Administration, and had become one of the permanent burdens of the Domi- nion. The Post Office establishment was reconstructed, and the postage of letters to the United States and Great Britain was very materially reduced. A free delivery was established in seve- ral of the large cities, and very great additions were made to the number of post-offices in the Dominion, and to the number of miles to be travelled over Ijy conveyances carrying the mails. All this entailed very large additional expense. He hud seen it stated in a si>eech made in another i)lace, that 20,000,000 more letters and packages were now conveyed through the post- offices every year, than were conveyed be- fore the change was made. Now, he presumed no gentleman would move that they go back to the state of things which formerly existed, in regard to the post- office. No doubt that improvement could have been deferred for a time, and it would have been imprudent to have incurred the additional expense if the Government had been regarded as a bankrupt concern. The people of this country, when this matter was fairly and fully stated to them, would say tliat it was an expenditure fully justified, and that they would not, on any account, re- turn to the old state of thincs. When • the late Finance Minister made his Budget speech, in 1874, he anticipated a deficit, but he could not have anticipated that there would be so sudden a decline in the prices of merchandise of all kinds. He was charged with not having had the courage to come down with a proposition which would enable him to meet fairly the wants of the country, by imposing additional taxation. They all knew that, in 1874, he infomied the House that there would be a deficit, and did ask for increased taxation, which, but for the decline in the prices of goods imported, would have yielded an additional revenue of three million dollars ; but, as the prices continued to go down year after year, he found that the revenue, notwithstanding the addi- tional taxation, barely kept up to the for- mer standard. Had the Government ex- ceeded its estimates of expenditure year after year, or had it wasted money in any way, the charge made so often by hon. gentlemen would be a tangible one. But such was not the case ; the deficit was caused solely by the decline in the revenwa, for which the Government could not be held responsible. They were told tliat this country was in a worse condition than any part of the civilised world, and they were asked to contrast its condition with that of the United States, which the hon. the Minis- ter of Piiblio Works held up as an ex- ample of all that was great and prosper- ous. But Canada was successful beyond all comparison. If they considered that the popuUtion of the United States was eleven times greater than that of Canada, it would be found tliat we im})orted fifty per cent, more than they did ; and if great exportations were a proof of pros- perity, we were vastly more prosperous than the people of the United States. The lion, gentleman filso pointed out that the imports of the United States 39 I 11 was aada, fitty ndif pro3- erous bates. out tales wei-e small, and assumed that the reason for this was that the manufactures of the country had grown to such an extent as to supply the wants of the people. If the decline in in)ports was a proof of prosperity,then, instead of holding the late Government responsible for the distress of this coun- try, he should admit that, if they in- fluenced the amount of imports in any way, they rendered great service, by re- ducing it so materially. What in truth was the state of affairs in the United States 1 Nearly two-thirds of the fac- tories there had been idle for a long time past. An hon. gentleman had stated that some were now working at double time. That might be ; but, neverthe- less, for some years past, a number of factories had been working at half time, and had paid very small wages, and very many had been closed altogether They had all heard of the I'iots among the foundry operatives in Troy, a year or two ago, and of riots in Pittsburg, and a great many other cities, where crowds tilled the streets, demanding employment, and using threats,and sometimes violence, so that it was necessary to call out the troops to quell the tumults. They had heard of the extraordinary suffering among miners in the coal regions, of the immense n''mber of 31,000 people out of employment in the manufacturing State of Massachusetts last year. The value ot real estate, in the principal cities in rhe United Stele.-, declined year after year, not ' . re > in v>roportion to the change ii I o relai/u va^ue of paper and gold, •>'. t>l' iolutely, so that it had fallen far V. Il ■« the gold value, as it was before the Civil \la,v. Another asser- tion frequently mude by gentlemen op- jiosito was thn.l, owing to tho misgovern- ment of tho la^o five ycar.s, the })eonle of Canada flocked in thousands to tho United States ; but the truth was thc.t, while the Conservatives svere in powev, no] less than 500,000 native-born 'V.na- dians emigrated to the United States ; but abou'. the time the lato GoveiTxiucr.t got into power that emigrat' ,i\ almost absolutely ceasecL; so that, where t\ ai- sands went in j)revious yean;, hu'-o! , ten went now. And no*^^ only was i. •'i. ?\, fact, but largo numbers of the exo- tt; \tba Canadians had returned to settle iigaii, \n this country. The hou. the Minister ot Public Works told them of tho unexam- pled prosperity of the United States, and contrasted the ondition of that country, as described by himself, with the condi- tion of Free-trade England. But they all knew that, some two years ago, large numbers of the mechanics and operatives of New York and other large cities in the United States, who had emigrated from Europe, returned to poor Free-trade England, because they could not And em- ployment in the Protectionist United States. This that hon. gentleman seemed to have forgotten ; but they all knew that he did not always recollect facts which told against his of a case, while he was vei'v those side fond of exaggerating those which were favour- able. It was a well-known fact that those people returned in tens of thous- ands to Great Britain. They knew that emigration to the United States, more especially from Ireland, England and Germany, had almost entirely ceased tor some yeai-3 past, because emigrants did not hope to find employment at fair- wages in that highly protected country which the Minister of Public Works alleged so loudly was so very prosperous. He found in the Boston Pilot, a paper devoted to the interests of the working classes, a protest against a proposal to pass a law, making vagrancy a criminal oflence in some of the Unit.ed States, while there were so many thous- ands of honest workingmen tramping in seai-ch of employment there. He found also that there had been in Rouen, one of the towns in France, a protected couiitry, a meeting of some 20,000 work- men who were unable to get work. That was a condition of things that V , 3ry much to be deplored. There was, no doubt, a great deal of distress prevailing throughout the cities and touns of the Dominion. No one could walk through the streets of Ottawa aud see the number of stores closed up on the pvincii)al streets, and deny that a gr'Nij < cal of depression existed in the co'.i\ti*y. The late Government had beei; onargcd by their successors with not 1 aving done anything to retrieve the epression. The hon. member for Hal- *on (Mr. Macdougall) had r»,'tated the charge frequently in his speech this even- ing, and hac' called uiwn members of the Opposition, not meiely to And fault 40 with this tariff, but to propound some counter proposition for relieving' the dis- tress of tlie country. But tlie late Gov- ernment had expended millions of dol- lars upon public works which went directly to the relief of the workingman, and had, by judicious economy, kept down the ordinary expenditure, ho that, not- withstanding the great increase of inter- est, and the large expenditure in the North-West, and the post-olHce improve- ments, the total expenditure exceeded the Estimates submitted by the present Finance Minister in 1873 only by two or three hundred thousand dollars. It would have been necessary to propose the imposition of heavier taxes, but he could not see that the people of the country would be assisted or relieved in any way by the imposition of additional taxation. The present Government pro- posed to tax the people. The late Min- ister of Finance thought it better to run a little into debt, and allow one or two small deficits to grow, than to im- pose additional taxation at a time when the people wei-e least able to bear it, when the ])eople were already suflering from depression of business and want of employment, and he (Mr. Anglin) thought the jjolicy })nrsued by that gen- tleman (Mr. Cartwright), was the cor- rect and ]n'oper jjolicy. With regard to the cause of the depression, he did not think it had been shown, as was alleged, that the late Government was in the slightest degree responsible for the de- cline in the revenue. The distress that existed in this country never equalled tiie distress existing to day in England and other countries. Of the 4,000 or 5,000 bricklayers, car- pentert., labourers, and others, who came to St. John after the great fire, he be- lieved nearly two-thir:is came from the United States — because that was a better place than their own country for workmen, and because wages were bet- ter. If they wanted any additional pi oof of the actual state of things in the United States, the hon. member for Niagara had furnished it in that statement of a gentle- man from All)any, which he had I'ead to the House, to the effect that rail- roads had gone into bankrujitcy whose capital amounted to no less than seven hundred million dollar.s. It was absurd to 8uj)pose that no manufactures would have sprung up in the United Stares if there had been no Protection. We, in this country, manufactured, in proportion to our population, more than the people of the United States. Was it to be sup- posed that a people of 45,000,000 living in a country like that, with such variety of (Climate, unlimited water power, with the raw material lying at their doors, would not have become manufac- turers without Protection'? They had succeeded, not because of Protection, b't because of the intelligence and ingenuity of the people, and their marvellous abil- ity in inventing machinery, and the sui)eriority of tJieir shelf hardware, and various little knick-knacks. It had been well said by an hon. gentleman that, of all the classes in this country, none had suffered less, by ^rv son 01 the business depression, '^ ni the manufacturers. Of tl;ose who had become bankrupt in this country, no class had fur nished so few as the manufacturing class. Go to any of our towns and cities, visit any of their suburbs, and look at the palatial residences, and three out' of four of those residences would be found to be- long to manufacturers. All honour and all credit to them for their success, but their success should satisfy them that they, at all events, were not entitled to receive lai'ger profits from their business, at the expense of the working masses of this country. France had always been held up as a country which was greatly pros- ])ei'Ous, because it had a high Protection- ist tariff. France had been more pros- perous coramerciiilly sin-^e the Cobden treaty than ever before, and from that day down to this she had had special treaties -with her manufacturing neigh- bours, and had received a large amount of the manufactures of Great Britain, Belgium and Holland, and Germany, at very low rates of duties, as low as 10 per cent, in many cases. These were the countries from which she had to fear competition. She had not much to pro- tect. She had iron and coal en the Ger- man frontier, and some coarse cotton, but, as regarded the finer classes of manufactures, the fin^ furniture, silk goods, ribbons, glass, china, and articles de Paris, besides her extriiordinary pro- ducts of brandy and wines, it would be found that, no mattei wba': her tariff was, I her exports were large, because her peo- 41 leld gh- at per the fear ])ro- Ger- tton, of silk idea pro- be was, peo- ple peculiarly excelled in their produc- tion. Add to tlif'se circumstances the frugality and thrifty habits of lier people, and the effects of the division of the landed property throughout the country, and they liatl the secret of the success of the French people, and of the extra- ordinary recuperative ])owers she had displayed since her disastrous war. If they contrasted the condition of Canada with the condition of our neighbours in the United States, peojde for peo[)le, city for city, farm-house for farm-hou«e, labourer for labourer, me- chanic for mechanic, we would find that the people of Canada, to-day, w' iswick, before they came into Con- federation, that 811,500,000 annually would cover all the expenditure of the four old Provinces for many years to come, and that the taxation of Canada would not exceed !i!2.75 per head for, at all events, twenty-live years, and on that the lion, gentleman staked his reputation as a financier. He had heard the hon. gentleman make that statement fre- quently. He (Mr. Anglin) contra- dicted it, and they brought the question out before the j)eople. Himself and those who were then associated with him carried the country by an over- whelming majority, and never was any question more fairly and thoroughly dis- cussed before any people than was that question at that election. Some attempts were made to introduce personalities, and he thought the hon. the Minister of Finance would give him credit for hav- ing carefully avoided anything approach- ing personality. They fought the ques- tion out before the peojde, and he would do the hon. gentleman the credit to say that in that fight he endeavoured with fair argument to persuade the people that it was to their advantage to accept the Quebec scheme. By an overwhelm- ing majority, tlie people of New Bruns- wick declared that they did not like the scheme, and would not hare it. What followed he need not dilate upon. Some- body had stated that Confederation never would liave been carried in New Brunswick without the help of the Fenians, and this was true. A band of Fenians came upon their borders just about the time that the Lieutenant-Gov- ernor, having tried in vain to induce the Government, led by Sir A. J. Smith, to unite with him in carrying the scheme of Confederation, was prepared to spring the mine laid with the help of the Finance Minister, and some ethers, and drive that Government from jtosver. Sixty or seventy men calling themselves Fenians exhibited themselves in the neighbourhood of Eastport, and imme- diately the alarm spread. Troops and volunteers were sent to defend the fron- tier. A force of regulars was called from Halifax, and the fleet was sum- moned from the West Indies. Reports spread that the enemy was several thou- sand strong, and the whole Piovince was in a state of alarm. The whole thing was so skilfully managed that the people were led to believe that the Fenians had come down to help the anti-Confederates, and that these were resjionsiblo for their coming. In that way Confederation was carried. Where the anti-Confederates had had a roajority of 700 or 800 at the first elec- tion, they found themselves, at the next, in a minority almost as great. The pro- mise then made was that the taxation should not exceed S2.75 per head. He (Mr. Anglin) could not understand how the affairs of the country could be man- aged at that rate of taxation. The hon. member for Halton said that, about that time, in order to coax the Maritime Prov- ^"oes into this bargain, the taxation of old > '"ada was reduced from 20 per cent, to ^:fi 42 15 per ceat., and they were promised, very distinctly indeed, that 15 per cent, was to be the rate thenceforth ; that they who were ]<'rec-traders need not feel the slightest hesitation, as they would never be forced into Protection ; and that, if any attempts were made to force Protec- tion upon them, they would have the ]X)wer to prevent it in their own hands. They were told that the interests of Quebec wore i)recisely similar to the interests of New Brunswick, and that the. ixx)ple of Quebec would stand beside them if the necessity arose. Well, to-day, how did they stand — the members from New Brunswick ? There were 1 G of them, and 12 of the 16, h .sast, were elected to oppose the impo^l o" cf Protection in their Province. .^y yjey were, on this occasion, protestiii;^ ) vain against it. The hon. member for Oariboo (Mr. Thompson) cliose to taunt them because some of their people eat cornmeal ; and many hon. gentlemen joined in the sneers and taunts at the people of New Bruns- wick. On the medal struck at the time of Confederation, among the figures emblematic of the four Provinces, New Brunswick was placed upon her knees before the other three. On her knees she appeared now asking in vain for ftxir play, and demanding that the promises given her might be can-ied out — that she might be protected from this system of Protec- ti in against which she protested. Help- less and powerless, the majority of her representatives stood, scarcely permitted to I'aise their voices in her behalf. But hon, gentlemen told them that, in the introduction of this tariff, they fulfilled tlie promises made to the country. If he (Mr. Anglin) believed that, he would not make a long speech. He would simply content himself with protesting ag.iinst tlie measure in a very few words. He could not, for the life of him, see wherein this was tlie fulfilment of any promises made to the country. It might be said to be the fulfilment of the desires of a few, and of the appreliensions of a great many. When was it pro- mised that theie should be a tax of 35 j)er cent, on furniture and 40c. per barrel on Indian meal, or that coarse woollens should be taxed by the pound and the yard to the extent of 50, 60, 80 or 90 per cent. ? When was it promised that coarse cottons should be taxed lea yard and 15 per cent, ad valorem ? Such promises were never made by the hon. the Finance Minister, If that hon. gentle- man had gone before the people of New Brunswick last September with that tariff in his hands, instead of being here with a questionable majority of seven or eight, ho would have received a decided minority of the votes of the electors. He had heard a great many gentlemen declare in this House, he had heard the hon. the Minister of Public Works declare, in a most emphatic manner, that they had no idea of increasing the taxation ; that what the men now in power contemplated was at most a readjustment of the system of taxation. Hon. gentlemen went through the country, i\ one place talking about the Protection the farmer ought to have, and the hardship from which he suffered ; in another about the slaughtering of American manufactures in the furniture market, and, if anyone attempted to fit their statements together, and form an accurate opinion of the tariff, he found this impossible. He (Mr. Anglin) lis- tened with a great deal of attention to the statement of the hon. the Minister of Finance when he made his first speech of the campaign in St, John, and he found his utterances as sybilline and am- biguous as he could have anticipated. The hon. gentleman told them in New Brunswick that, if he had been in the House when the duty on flour was im- posed, he would have voted against it. He (Mr. Anglin) believed a good many who heard the hon. gentleman make that statement believed the hon. gentleman was op})Osed to a duty on flour. He had also said, in regard to the unenumerated list, that he would have voted against the increase of duty from 15 to 17A per cent,, and he said that it was a very simple thing indeed to take out of this list some of the articles which were manufactured in the coun- try, the maniifacture of which could l>e very materially assisted by a slight in- crease of duties. As far as New Bi-uns- wick was concerned, four-fifths of the whole of the articles in that unenumer- ated list were no ff taken out, and sub- jected to greatly increased taxation. The right hon, the Premier telegraphed to Mr, John Boyd, of St. John, denying that the tariff was to be increased to 35 43 m lumer- d siib- The led ta mving to 35 per cent., antl now tbey were told by the Minister of J ustice, that what he meant ■was that the unenumerated list should not be so increased. He (Mr. Anglin) thought, if they estimated fairly the efiects of the whole tariff, they would find that it was a tariff of 35 per cent. Mk. TILLEY : The American tariff is only 27 per cent., and this is 16 per cent. Mr. anglin .said that reminded him of another statement the hon, gen- tleman had made. The hon. gentleman, in his last speech, compared the British importations with the American, and he included in the American importations the price of all cereals that merely passed through this country on the way to Europe. Thirteen or fourteen millions, so included in his cal- culation, ought to be struck out. Strik- ing out this sum, and the duty upon other things exported again, he thought they would find the present tariff Wiis very little short of 35 per cent, upon all w'j consumed. In all the public declara- tions of hon. gentlemen, they had no statement that would lead the peor pie' to conclude that any such tariff as this was to be imposed. Several Hon. MEMBERS : Question. Mr. CARTWRIGHT : This noise is simply intolerable. I have never seen in my life, such utterly disgraceful con- duct. Hon. gentlemen on the Minister- ial side must be assured that they will get no division to-night if they do not behave themselves. Mr. ANGLIN said that there was a gentleman opposite calling " question," who occupied ten times as much of the time of this Session as he did. He had endeavoured to treat every hon. gentle- man with courtesy, and did not deserve those 'interruptions. If his remarks hurt hon. gentlemen opposite, he could not help that. With regard to this tariff, he did not know whether its friends had clear ideas of what its effects would be. If all he heard were true, the Fin- ance Minister had little more to do with framing it than the supervision of the work. They had heard of a gentleman from Washington, and of one who might bo styled a secietary of the Manufacturers' Association, and of others employed in the Finance Department, who, it was said, had had much to do with framing this tariff. He did not grudge the hon. gentleman all the assistance requisite to render it as perfecr, as possible, Init it might be doubted whether the Finance Minister himself had a very clear idea when he began to frame this tariff of what it would be when his work was done. Hon. gentlemen opposite taunted the Liberals with not having stated their policy, although they had exhibited it sufficiently during the last four or five years. He remembered how hon. gentle- men opposite had refused to expound their Protection policy while they were in Opposition. They had heard of deputations and delegations crowding to Ottawa, to see the Finance Minister, and of a secret meeting of manufacturers in St. John and elsewhere, and rumours as to what the result had been — that they were in secret correspondence with the Central Association of Toronto, and other associations. All that class of people were strongly agitated for months before this tariff saw the light, and they had heard that, among those who were very active in suggestions to the Finance Minister, as to the duties he should im- pose, were a great many wealthy manu- facturers who had worked their way up from humble positions, and who now wanted to control the destinies and the commercial policy of this country. He had heard that a large number of them \vere Americans, and, if so, it was no wonder that the tariff bore an American character. If, as was reported, manufac- turers, formerly American citizens, had had a large share in the framing of the taiifl", it was no wonder that it appeared to be such a revolu- tionary measure, and one threatening to affect this country most disastrously. It gave furniture a protection of 35 per cent. ; woollens 40 to 70 per cent., and a few cotton manufacturers in the country a very large protection on coarse cottons. There was a pretence of protecting almost everybody. Coal miners got 50c. a ton, which would enable them tp put very little additional coal in the Canadian market, while hurting the poor of the cities by compelling them to pay higher 44 prltes. He saw, \sed by this tariff, not for the general welfare oi ii. poopie, but for the advantage of a few indivi- duals, making the rich richer and the poor poorer. For all these reasons, he should, vainly, perhaps, but most earnestly, oppose this tariff. SIH .£l. J. SMITH. April 10th, 1879. Sir ALBERT J. SMITH said the question under consideration was ad- mitted to be one of very great import- ance. It seemed to him, although much time had been consumed in its discus- sion, that he would fail in his duty if lie did not make some observations before it reached its finality. This question re- vived the memory of events of very con- siderable consequence and importance in the Province ot New Brunswick. It re- produced, naturally, from the attitude of the hon. the Finance Minister, the recollection of events which took place in the early stages of this Confederation, and it waa natural that his colleagues from New Brunswick should have ad- verted to the attitude of the Finance Minister in connection with the agita- tion incidental to the accomplishment of Confederation, which took place at the time in his Province, In 1864, the Fi- nance Minister, being then a member of the Government, was appointed with one or two otkers, by the Government, 47- ad- nauce agita- nt of the he Fi- ler of ■with ment, delegates to the Quebec Conference, which had relation to the final Confede- ration of these Provinces. Having been Secretary of the Province, and having had charge of its financial affairs, it na- turally fell to him to look after the finan- cial interests of New Brunswick at that Conference. The Conference met and passed a variety of resolutions which formed the basis of Confederation, so far as New Brunswick to have 80c. per head of the population of 18G1, which amounted to about $201,000, and in ad- dition, $63,000 per year for ten years. The Conference closed ; the Finance Minister returned to New Brunswick, and, with the view of preparing the people for the dissolution which was shortly to take place, he called public meetings in St. John, as well as in other partf! G.'' y , •'.' T3 Uii.Mvick. He (Sir A. J. Smith) was one of those who opposed Confederation, as propounded at the Quebec Conference. The Finance Min- ister, ' at all these public meetings, strongly advised the j>eople to accept the terms of the Conference. He told them he had obtained the most liberal terms for New Brunswick, and, had the i>eople endorsed his action, and adoj)ted his ad- vice, all that the Province would have had in this Confederation would have been $201,000, and $G3,000 for ten years. Mr. TILLEY : Where are the $50,000 for the Government 1 Sir A.J. SMITH said thatwasa supple- mentary allowance ; there was nothing said about it at the Conference, or in the resolutions. All that the Finance Min- ister had to oflfer the people, and which he strongly urged them to accept, were the 80c. per head according to the census of 1861, which amounted to $201,000, and the $63,000 per year for ten years, and these amounts were to be in full satisfaction of any claim New Brunswick was to have on this Dominion with reference to its financial matters. Had the people ac- cepted the advice of the Finance Minis- ter, what would be the condition of New Brunswick now? Since then. New Brunswick has received, in addition to those terms, $50,000 a year, 80c. per head of the population, until it reached 400,000, which, according to the last census, did give a considerable amount, $150,000 compensation for the abolition of e.vport duties — and had now a reve- nue of nearly half a million dollars de- rivable from the Dominion Treasury. He asked the Ftnanco Minister where New Brunswick would have been had she accepted his proposition in 1864- % She would have been in the lowest depths of financial despair. All she could do at present was barely to meet requirements of her Civil Government. It had been said, across the floor of this House, that he (Sir A. J. Smith) had changed his politics, and, from a Tory, had become a Liberal. He and the Fi- nance Minister had b<'en associated together for many years in the same Government ; they were in perfect ac- c^^rd and sympathy, and were members of the first Liberal Government, in 1854, ever formed iu New Brunswick, and, if there had been a change, it was the Finance Minister who had changed, who, for many years, had been a Liberal, and was now a Tory. What did the Finance Minister himself say in 1864, about the manner in which New Brunswick would be financially affected by joining Confeder- ation ? At this time, the tax per head in New Brunswick, Customs duties, for there were no Excise duties, was $3.20. He told the people that, if they joined Confed- eration, their taxes would be diminished, and, instead of $3.30, they would pay only $2.75 per Lead for the next quarter of a century. His views were not adopted by the people, and he was de- feated by an overwhelming majority, despite every means legitimate and illegitimate, which were used against the anti-Confederate party. The following year a dissolution was forced, and the Confederate party won the election. He would not repeat the causes of this change, because his hon. fi'iend from Gloucester had put plainly before the House the agencies which had been resorted to to bring about the result. He (Sir A. Smith) alluded to those utterances of the Finance Minister to show that his judg- ment was not to be relied upon, that, when he assumed the rdle of prophet, his proj^hecies should be received with con- siderable allowance, that he had not a great prevision and forecast for the future, and it was impossible for him to i i i'l ill! m 48 explain why lie told tho people of Now Brunswick that for the next twenty-five years all they would be called ou to pay would be $2.75 per head. He had not been five years in power before ho ■ubmittod ii scheme of taxation which would involve at least six dollars a head on tho peo|)le, after promising it should not exceed $2.7;"). How were they to enfoice this agree- ment ? There was no doubt this was a compact, because it was i'ej)oatnd ou the second election. Tiie Minister of Justice ought to be consulted, to see by what means this agreement co\dd be enforced, and an indemnity be given to the people of New Brunswick for tho pledge the Finance Minister had given, that they woidd only pay $2.75 per head. It had been stated hero, over and over again, that the question referred to the people at the polls on the 17th September, was whether a revenue tariff, as a policy of Protection, should he adopted. Well, he admitted in many portions of the Do- minion, that was the fair issue at the polls, but he denied that in the Province of New Brunswick it was the real issue. The hon. the Finance Minister endea- Toured to make the people believe the policy of the then Opposition was simply » i-e-adjustment of the tariff. He would like to ask hini whether he believed he would have been elected had it not been for the telegram sent by Sir John A. Macdonald to Mr. John Boyd t Did the present tariff come within the mean- ing of the communication made by the leader of the Government to Mr. Boyd, that the tariff was simply to be re- adjusted, and no increase of taxation? Had the Finance Minister gone to the people of St. John's with his present tariff, he would not have been elected. He went to his election under peculiarly auspicious circumstances. He had occu- pied the first position in that Province for five years. He (Sir A. J. Smith) did not wish particularly to refer to the way in which his hon. friend got that appoint- ment, but he thought the circumstances which led to it were to be regretted. Ho was amused to see the Finance Min- ister, the other day, refer to the First Minister as to the circumstances con- nected with the j)assing of the Order in Oouncil on the 22nd October. He in- Toked the testimony of the First Minis- ter as to whether ho knew that tho Order in Council had been passed. It was never pretended that he knew. Ho was in England at tho time. On tho 5th Novomi)er, in hl^^ place in tho House, he made a speech, in which he exhibited himself in tho most chivalrous manner, and said he would sink with tho siiip, and full with his colleagues. At that hour there was an Order in Council, dated 22nd October, appointing him Lieutenant-Governor of New Brunswick, and he occupied the jjosition for five years after by Order in Council, and by virtue of that order. It then had vitality on tho 5 th November as no other Order of Council appoint- ing him Governor ever passed ; and yet he told us that, after his return from England, he told the Governor he did not think he would accept the ajj^ointment. Was it understood between him and the leader that this order was to remain in abeyance until they saw the result of the vote of want of confidence then pending ! Tho Order in Council was never changed, and his acceptance of the Governorship had relation back to the 22nd of October, when that Order in Council was passed. He said he thought that the Finance Minister had entered upon his ofliice of Lieutenant-Governor of New Brunswick rather ingloriously. He did not say it with any kind of bad feeling. The hon. gentleman had referred to a conversation he had had at the time with Mr. Burpee and himself (Sir A. J. Smith.) He recol- lected having a conversation with the Finance Minister, and believed he had said to him then that he was pleased of his appointment, and would have been glad to have suggested himself the nomi- nation. But on this occasion there was nothing said about an Order in Council. He had not seen the Order in Council, and it was not spoken of at that time. The Finance Minister, more fortunate than his colleagues, who went out of power v.ithout office, rose to a higher position. Well, he was ))repared to ad- Tiiit that he made a very good Governor. He discharged his duty well within the limits of the Constitution. There was no friction, everything went on smoothly, and he discharged his duty satisfactorily ; but the hon. gentleman, while he was unfortunate in his entrance to that high position, was equally unfor- 49 pee ecol- the had of been lomi- igher ad- good well ition. weut duty iinan, "vance nfor- tunate in )iia exit from it. This House would be astonished to hear that the hon. the Finance Minister, while he was yet Governor, attended a public political mooting in St. John, and accepted the nom." nation for the city. He made, also, a "iolent speech on that occasion, in which he condemned tlio Government, of which he was but an oflicer, and criticised Mr. Cartwright in hia policy and mea- sures. Mr. TILLEY : I made no speech at all. Sir albert J. SMITH : Then the paj^ers misrepresented yoii. Mr. TILLEY : No ; thoy did not. Sir albert J. SMITH : You went to St. John's for the purpose of accept- ing the nomination. Mr. TILLEY : No ; I did not go there for that purpose, I knew nothing about it. Sir a. J. SMITH : The hon gentle- man was in St. John receiving a re- quisition. The papers published the next morning that the Governor had accepted the nomination and made a speech. Whether he did or not, he (Sir A. J. Smith) did not know personally. The meeting was not an open one, but was attended by a large number of strong political partisans, and the hon. gentle- man held office as Governor several weeks after. This was an unprecedented pro- ceeding, because the Governor was sup- posed to bo, for the time being, at all events, without any party politics. The hon. the Finance Minister appeared be- fore the people of St. John's under very favourable circumstances. He had all the prestige and moral influence which the occupation of that high position could give him ; he had no political sins for five years to answer for ; ho had many political and personal friends who would stand by him under all circnrastauces. The people of St. John were anxious and interested about the question of Pro- tection, and, from his utterances, were not induced to believe that the scheme now- submitted to this House was the schema and policy then contemplated. If it was, why did he seek to reuiore from the minds of the- people then that his policy was one of Protection 1 Why did lio communicate with the First IVlinis- torl The telogram of tlio First Minister implied that there was no such thing an Protection contemplated, but simply a readjustment of tho tariff. Was tiiis a readjustment of the tariff? It was ad- mittedly a policy of extreme Protection. Without this telegram ho could not have been elected, and with all these influences and powerful agencies, personal, oflicial, and moral influence, ho was only elected by a majority of nine. That illustrated very strongly that the sentiments of the people w.is not in favour of Protection, and the Finance Minister must have re- ceived letters innumerable from St. John and other parts of New Bruns wick, complaining that this policy was most oppressive. He (Sir A. J. Smith) did not believe he had received lettera in which it was recommended, but must have received letters in which it was almost universally condemned. Tho Finance Minister was elected by a majority cf nine, and he thought more, that on that occasion, in addition to all the other agencies used by tliat hon. gentleman, he told the people of St. John's that ho had the virtue to resist a pro- forred bribe of $46,000. He (Sir A. J. Smith) thought the Minister of Financo was not justified in resorting to such means during that election. He was not aware that any such offer was made to him (Mr. Tilley). Ko (Sir A. J. Smith) had some con-e.spondence with him, and he had no liositation in saying that he did not care whether it was made private or public. The Finance Minister told the people of St. John t^iat he was so anxious to serve his countn ^"^ anxious to obtain the position of F'r c Minister, that he was unable to accept the offer of $45,000 made to him. After the election, the lion. the Financo Minister was kind enough to pay hia (Sir A. J. Smith's) county a visit, accompanied by the Min- ister of Public Works, tho Hon. Mr, Mitchell, and the hon. member for King's (Mr. Domville), He (Sir A.J. Smith) thought he was in Ottawa at the time ; but he saw an account of the affidr, and there was a torch-light pro- cession, and all that kind of thing, in the town of Aloncton, where those gentlemen had come to attend a meeting. The hon. tho Finance Minister, he thought, warn 60 rathor iriodoriite on that onciision. Mr. Mitch(tU waH very IuvIhIi hi his abuse, and was only t)xcelles, and two seats in the Cabinet, the whole of which he had de- clined, and he would ask the hon. the Minister of Public Works whether, in vipw of tlteon fiicf^i, b(! lii.d any authority or warrant for saying that he (Sir A. J. Sr ■ Ai) was an otiice-sooker, and that he had knocked at the door of their Gov- ernment for office? Ho did not think it was fair or just to make such an u 'sa- tion against a public man whe -re was not the slightest foundation y such charge. He never was an omce- seeker. Did not the hon. the Minister of Finance know that when ho (Sir A. J. Smith) first camo here, in 1867, they had boen associated together for many years ] The Confederation discussion had made a divergence between them, but it had not terminated the kindly feeling that liad existed between them. He (Mr. Tilley) know very well that he was not an office-seeker, but that he had been offered office day after day, and had refused it. It was most unfair for the hon. member (Mr. Tupper) to make that charge against him, and he felt it his duty, before the House and the country, to refute those charges, and to show that they had no foundation] in fact whatever. The hon. member for King's (Mr. Domville) had read an ex- tract from a speech, reported to have been been made by him (Sir A. J. Smith) in 1872. That speech was incorrectly reported. In 1867, having fought the battle of Confederation, and having been beaten, he had laid down his arms, and admitted he was conquered, and he be- lieved it was his duty, as a public man, to exert all influence towards making Confederation a success, and the country of dl 'i-e an ex- havs Smith) jrrectly ;ht the g been ns, and he he- man, making country pioqioroiiH. Ill 1H(»7 111' a]>|«'ivlt'(l ii.« an IndepeniltMit camliilnti! to liis ooiistitii- cntH, wlio hml iilwuys ictiiiiu'il liiin to thi* Now Brunswick I'arliaiiunit, tViiiu 1852, without any int(Mru|>tioii, ami lu' was rtiturnt'd by a niajoiity of iiioro than nint)t((t'n liuiuh<'orted the Government when they were rij^iit, and o[)1)0SimI them wlieu they were wronj?. As every hon. gentleman knew, lie had always exercised his own judi^ment in re- gard to matters submitted for the con- sideration of this House. Wiien ho had first coni(} here, ho had no iiolitical atUni- ties with either jmrty ; in ft-.c, ho knew hardly any of the then public men of Canada, except by repnl.ai'jti. Confed- eration, the only tpiestion, pbrha])s, upon which ho held opinions adverse to those of the majority of the House, had been disposed of, and. accepted by both sides, and, therefore, he was entirely indepen- dent of any party. Whenever ho had any doubt, ho always gave tho Govern- ment the benefit of tho doubt, because he did not desire a change of Government at all. Then, having occupied that posi- tion for live years in this House, ho re- turned to his constituents in 1872, and what did he say to them 1 He told them that he again offered him- self, that he was jiledged to neither one side or the other ; that, during tho five years ho had been in Ottawa, he had been prejjared to give the G(»vernment credit for everyLhing they did ; that he had found the then Government willing to do justice to his Province, and that lie had supported them when they were right, and opposed them when they were wrong. lie had gone further, and told them that the in- terests of the Lower Provinces were as safe in the hands of the Government as they would be in the hands of the Oii- position. He declared himself entirely independent of both sides on that oc- casion, and was again elected by acclam- ation. He felt it necessary to make this explanation, because he did not know that he would ever have another occasion of explaining the matter, and because tlicTO soomi'd tti b>* Hoirirt misapprehension with rej^ard to the attitude wiiieh he huld towards the (Joverninent of (lie day in 1H72. The hon. the Minister of Finance knew that from lHr»7 to 1H72. and from 1H72 until the time tho (Jovernment fell, ho (Sir A. J. Smith) had never asked for otHce, and that he had decliuwil th;* four propositions which were made to him. Having made this explanation, which he thought was necessary, in order to inform the House and tho country the true position ho occupied in reference to those matters, ho thought it was necessary, in dealing with the (piestion now before the Hoiu^i,', to find out, if they could, when it was that this Protective policy had its origin in this country and was born. By ro- fen nco to the utterances of hon. mem- bers on the Gove.inmcut siiie ui I'm: House in 1S7.') and 1874, he found that tlwHO was no indication at all that this V is the jioliey of the men who were in power in 1873, and afterwards in Oppo- sition. It was said that the Protection of 1871 was in the sense of a National Policy ; but that Protection liveil but a few months and then died. He would s"o \s liat were the reasons given by the First Minister, and ho would then call attention to tho reasons given by tho Finance Minister, and see how far they agreed upon this question, what was called the National Policy of 1871. They arrived at the same con- clusion, but their pniniiscs were entirely different. Here was what the Minister of Finance said : " It is true, that, in the National Policy in- troduced iu 1871, a tax was placed on Hour and ( oal . But you must toiisider tlie circum- stances under which the tax was imposed. We were going into the Treaty of Washinjjton, intending to innke an efl'ort to secure recipro- city, 80 that we would have free market for our lumber, fish, cattle and agricultural products. We could not ask for all these advantages without offering something in return. We must have something to offer for a renewal of the treaty, as we had made few changes in our tariff since it was abrogated, and the United States continued to enjoy all the privi- leges they possessed under it. We felt we must have something to offer as the price of its renewal, and the duties were imposed accordingly . It is supposed that these bore unequally on the Maritime Provinces, the fact being that the Maritime Provinces paid on flour, grain, coal and coke, but 5 per cent, more than Ontario and Quebec, in proportioa U ):'»« :il I VT- 69 to the population, I would have voted against the coal and flour resolutions last ScsBion, but I would re-impose these duties in circumstanceH similar to those attt-nding the Washington Treaty negotiations, and would take something off sugar and other articles largely consumed by the masses." Now in that tho Finance Minister said that, in order to secure reciprocity, it was necessary, in the interests of the country, in 1871, to impose duties. Here was what tlie First Minister said on the same subject, in 1872 : "The foeling in 1865 was, however, very strong iin favour of doing everything in our power in order to induce the Americans to renew the treaty. The Government did everything it could, and, while its members •were exerting themselves in that direction, it would have been a suicidal coinse— it would have been threatening the very purpose in Yiew if they had increased the taxes o.i that time, even to inaugurate a National Policy. Bi cause the Americans could have said, ' How can we give you a reciprocity treaty when you are increasing the duties on our goods?' Therefore, from year to year, so long as there wai any hope of a renewal of the treaty, Canada Jeclined to raise a larger revenue than was absolutely necossaiy to carry on the Govern- ment." This was the utterance of the First Min- ister, diaraetrJcally opposite to that of the Finance Minister. One said pat on the duty, and the other said take it ofl". In 1871, when a duty was put on flour and coal tliis Government never contem- plated establishing a National Policy. The fiscal policy of the United States was the same now as it ■was then ; and if it was necessary now, and the enuntry cnlled loudly, tliinking its prosi>erity was imperilled, for some such system as obtained in the United States, why did not tho.% hou. gentle- men propo\ind tfiis National Policy in 1871 1 The cii'curastances were pre- cisely the same. He would call atten- tion to some of tho utterances of tlie lion, the Mininter of Puulic Works, in 1874, also of the First Minister in 1872, in this question, and it could not be de- nied ti.it the fiscal policy of the United States had remained unchan£;od since then. It wa!; said thou that; this country was in a Jiiost prosperous condition, and that tliey diil not want even reciprocity ; that thoy were going on succ^s-sfully and nrosperously. The First Minister said. "Although wo have been without recipro- city from 1866 until now ; although we have been virtually excluded from the markets of the Un.'ted States, our farmers are richer than ever, and easily find a sale for their products in the markets of the world. They are in- creasing their farms, and improving the breed of their live stock. In every branch of the agricultural community you see they are rising superior to the temporary disadvantage caused by the loss of the United States markets." That was the declaration Minister in 1872. How changed since then ] of the First had things prosperc in 1872: Sm JOHN A. MACDONALD; A change of Ministry. Sir a. J. SMITH said that recalled to his mind that this National Policy never was thought of until it became a neces- s'ty of the Conservative party. The hon. the Minister of Public Works, after the change of Government in 1873, believed, because he stated it to many of his friends, that the other Government would not remain in power six months. He seemed to have the conviction that the Govern- ment would not even be able to admin- istrate the public affairs of this country. The Government did live six months and longer, and the hon. gentlemen on the other side found that the Mackenzie Government could administer the affairs of the country, and not only that, but thoy had done so well and honestly. Th^^y found that, in order to succeed to power, it Wiis necessary to resort to some other agency than usual. They found discontent, depression and hard times existing in the country, and they felt that, by working upon the prejudices of the people, they could create a public opinion in favour of a National Policy. Tho.se gentlemen knew that this statement had been proved cor- rect. Ho would now see what the Min- ister of Public Works said in 1874, after the late Government had been in power some months : " The only interest the Finance Minister protended wus suffering the lilightest depres- sion, was the agricultiiral interest, and he (Mr. Tuppcr) would ask the great consuming population of the countvy whether they thought the great agricultural interest was suf- fering ? He tnought they would give a decided rcKp()nsc,w:thi)ut any hesitation, that the agri- cultuial interest, atthi.s moment, was enjoying a condition of prosperity second to none in the world." 6? linister flepres- le (Mr. fuming they tas 8uf- Rocided to agri- Jijoying in th« That was aftei* the change of Govern- ment ; he presumed after the six montlis within which the hon. gentleman had predicted that the Government would overthrown. The late Government cni cnallenged full enquiiy, to see if they had not conducted public afiairs tj the entire satisfaction of the people. He repeated that, in the Session of 1874, the hon. gentlemen now in power never con- templated a i«olicy of Protoction. They declared the country to be in a most prosperous condition ; that the country, notwithstanding tlie repeal of the Reci- procity Treaty, was becoming rich ; that they could find markets for their agii- cultural produce in every paitoftlieworld, and that they were not dependent upon the United States. He had now occas- sion to refer to the position taken by the hon. member for Cardwell (Mr. White). He was a gentleman who represented very advanced thouglits and ideas ; he had studied the public affairs of thi.-5 country, if not in this House, outside of it, and if lie was not hero long ago it was not his faiilt, because he tried often enough, and his utterances were entitled to considerable consideration. While that gentleman said now that he was a Protectionist, in 1873 lie was entirely opposed to Protection, as shown by the resolution wliich he moved in the Domin- ion Board of Trade, at the annual meet- " That, without fovniin;,' any opinion upon Bome of the (iea.ils of tho present Customs tariff, and the anomalies, whicli are inevitable in all tariffs, this Hoard is of opinion that no changes should be made in it, unless the exigencies of the public service demand larger revenues ; and that in such case any increase to he made should be in accordance with the principle of the present Customs tariff, which, while not interfering with the commerce of the Dominion, affords incidental Protection to its maiuifactures.'' He did not say that Free-trade was practicable in this country. He said they must have incidental Protection, must have a revenue tariff, having a pro- per i-egard for the industries of the coun- try. The resolution concluded as fol- lows : — " That this Board is further of opinion that permanence in the fiscal policy of the country is most important alike to its commerce and its manufactures, and tliat no changes should bo made in the tariff not demanded by tlio absolute necessities of the revenue." How was it that the hon. gentleman changed his mind since then I He (Sir Albert J. Smith) did not believe that he had changed his honest conviction, but that he was really of the same opinion still, because it was based upon sound reason — that they could not stimulate, encoiirage and foster industries that required artificial means to sustain them. Hi) (Sir A. J. Smith) thought he had shown that the National Policy waB the outcome of political nooessities of the gentlemen on the other side, and that it was not the result of conviction, because he found that, up to 1874, they never ut- tered a word in favour of the National Policy. It was said that Protection had accomplished wonders for the United States, and Mr. AVells had been quoted in connection with that assertion. He would quote from a lecture that was de- livered, in 1878, before a Science Con- gress in Cincinnati, to show the effect of Protection on the i.. lustrics of that country as compared with effect of Free- trade as it existed in England. It wa» as follows : — " The great commerce of England has beca built upon invention, and by a policy of ocean postal service, which enables her to reach every seaport by steam on the face ot the earth. Her merchants are in every land ; her mprine on every sea. How our foreign com- merce fails before that of England — less than one-third — yet you may put the United King- dom into Ohio, Indiana and Hlinois, and have 1 5,000,000 acres to spare . Last year we mined 42,000,000 tons of coal; I^ngland, 133,000,000. She built 687 sailing vessels, and 300 steamers, last year; we, six steamers, seven ships, four brigs! Last year she produced $124,000,000 of wool, clothed her people, and exported $115,000,000; we purchased $7,u00,000, and exported $317,000 worth. England jmid us $191,000,000 for our cotton, and exported $358,000,000 of cotton goods, while we, raising the cotton, exported $13,000,000 worth. Eng- land manufactured 0,000,000,000 yards of cotton goods, sending 1,155,000,000 to India; 279,000,000 to Turkey; 100,000,000 to Egypt; 54,000,000 to the United States — more to this country than we to all the world— 178,000,000 to Brazil : we, 5,000,000 yards . She sent to all South Africa, 354,000,000; we, 53,000,000. China, in 18U0, took from us 5,300,000 yards; from England, 150,000 yards. Last year wo sent 11,000,000 yards to that land ; England, 408,000,000. Such has been the development of trade with that country." Now, that was a country where cotton was produced, and its manufacture wa» I si I m f 64 favoured by a liigh Protective policy. What bad it done as compared with Free-trade England 1 Quotations with- out number might be found to show the injurious effects of Protection in the United States. Refutations of that policy came from many in the Republic, and he would read from an authority in St. Louis : " Things here are dull, as usual, no signs of improvement visible to my naked eye in the business line. Land and property generally has fallen, on the average, 50 percent, in the last four years, at the lowest calculation. The iron furnaces are closed, and other manu- factures are in various stages of collapse, or non-prosperity. Not one in ten is making money. Protection, for some years, has piled up the filthy lucre in their pockets, but too many rushed in, and they are now in a most calamitous state. The manufacturers have not prospered under Protection, while the people here have been fleeced right and left, and have, in the last fifteen years, paid enough in the difference between a revenue and Protection tariff to have built all the mills in the country more than once." Now, that gentleman's experience urged him to condemn Protection as most dis- astrous, ruinous, to the country. The hon. the Finance Minister had taken abun- dant credit for Protection to what hecalled the shipping interest. Had he considered that question thoroughly, and did he know the effect his tariff would have on it as compared with that of the old tariff t He could not think it possible. It mit^ht be that, with the multiplicity of his duties, he had been unable to give that attention to the subject which it deserved. That interest, however, was one of the most valuable in the country, and required every reasonable encourage- ment and protection. But still it was not more depressed than others, and did not ask ai^ecial provision. In 1874, it was called upon to pay certain duties by the tariff of that year, but he had lieai J no complaint of them. They were only A trifle ; but the Finance .Minister pro posed to abolish them or impose higlior duties, giving the shipbuilder, at the same time, what ho called a drawback. He (Sir A. J. Smith), however, had seen no i)rovision for a drawback in the tariff resolutions. The shipping interest was, no doubt, in a depressed condition, but considering iti development in the Lower Provinces, and its circumstances as compared with other industries, he believed there was no other so pros- perous. New Brunswick built, last year, 270,000 tons of shipping, and Nova Scotia 550,000 tons, which was equiva- lent to about 13,000,000 thus investwl. Each of those Pro^'inces had more than a ton for every man, woman and child of its population, it being wonderful how the shipping interest in the two Provin- ces had kept pace, as to tonnage, with the increase of the population. The shipping had a light duty so far, but he was sure the proposed burden would strike a serious and deadly blow at it, instead of bene- fitting it, as the F'-^nnce Minister de- clared he intended ^.t seemed to be natural for the people of the Mari- time Provinces to build ships and invest their money in enterprises connected with shipping. The hon. member for Yarmouth (Mr. Killam), who was thor- oughly acquainted with shipbuilding, stated the old duty on this trade was comparatively nothing. For a practical illustration of the effects of the new du- ties, let them consider the case of a ves- sel of 1,530 tons, classing A 1 at Lloyd's; in nine years the duties paid on her ma- terials, under the old tariff, would reach $470.99, equal to about 31c. per ton, which was a mere trifle. The total cost of dutiable goods entering into hei con- struction would be $7,939, under the old tariff ; the non-dutiable added, gave a total of $23,208. The dutiable amounted to about $5 a ton, and the non-dutiable to $10. The cost of the vessel would be about $88,000. Now, the old tax of 31c. a ton no shipbuilder com- plained of, all being willing to pay neces- sary taxation. But, in increasing it, the Finance Minister put 10 per cent, on cordage, upon which he iinderstocd there was to be no drawback. Mr. TILLET : None. Sir a. J. SMITH said the old duty was but 5 per cent., or 8100 for such a vessel, but the new would be $200, and no drawback. The hon. member for Yarmouth, who knew all about ship- building, had com' 'mned the drawback as anomalous, and .stated it would be practically impossible lo carry out that principle. The only way it could be done would be by giving a bounty of so much per ton in ships built. 55 In answer to Mr. Domville, Sir a. J. SMITH said the duty on the imported goods required for a vessel of 1,600 tons would now be $3,000, under the new tariff. Suppose he wanted iron knees, and got them from the l\i)n. member for King's, who imported the iron and made the knees for vessels — who would get the drawback, the ship- builder, or the person who sold him the articles 1 Mr. til LEY: TI at depends on the arrangement between Ihem. The ship- builder obtains the Ijenefit — gets the article at the lower price. Sir a. J. SMITH said the matter was not provided for. A builder could buy iron in various places. He might buy from the hon. member for King's, lor example. How was he to know ? If the iron came from the Londonderry, N. S., works, would tlie drawback be allowed "i Mr. TILLEY : No. . Sir a. J. SMITH asked was that a fair policy to the iron manufacturer at Londonderry, to refuse a drawback on his iron, wliile allowing it on imported iron ? They would thus discriminate in favour of the iron-makers of foreign countries. Suppose a man could import iron, duty paid, for about the price of it at the Londonderry mines, and get a drawback of 10 per cent, on the import- ed, was not that an inducement to import the foreign article ? Mr. TILLEY : Yes. Sir a. J. SMITH asked was not that anomalous and a discrimination against the interests of the country in favour of the foreigner 1 He dared say the Fi- nance Minister had overlooked that re- sult, which he could hanlly have intend- ed. He would appeal to the hon. gentleman, representing, as he did, a Province deeply interested in shipbuilding, to repeal altogether that clause which would impose f 3,000 of duties on a l,5Q0-ton vessel. He had as much right to be heard on that question as a member of any of the manufacturers' rings ihev had seen at Ottawa, and who had moulded the tariff policy to suit their own interer;ts. The increased duties would embarrass seriously the shi|)building interest. Did the hon. gentleman say that, when the ship had gone to sea, the builder would be n;- funded the duties on the materials ? But much time might elapse before tliat, so as to make the loss of interest equal the refund. And yet the hon. gentleman claimed great credit for benefitting the shipbuilders. Did it require any argu- ment to show that this was false, or that he was striking a serious blow at the best interest of the Maritime Provinces "i Let him repeal that resolution, if he wanted to get anything out of ships without injuring the trade. W hy em- bax-rass himself with this drawback clause which must inevitably lead to fraud and inconvenience, and be found absolutely impracticable ? The Finance Minister ought to have consulted men like his hon. friend from Yarmouth before mak- ing such a change, and formulated the mode of returning the drawback. He had evidently no adviser he could rely on. Mr. TILLEY asked how the hon. gentleman made it out that tlie ship- builder, on a ] , 500-ton vessel, would have to pay $3/)00. Sir a. J . SMITH said he had not then the details, but would furnish them. In prei)aring his tariff, the hon. gentle- man had listened to the manufacturers of Ontario and Quebec, but had not con- sulted the interests of the great body of the people, the labouring men and farmers. Kings of manufacturers had been in Ottawa of late, and the changes they had secured in the tariff since its submission were perfectly marvellous and magical. He knew a gentleman inter- ested in pulp, on which the Finance Minister put ten per cent. ; but it did not require his attendance in Ottawa more than half an hour to secure a change to 20 per cent. That was an example of the pressure brought to bear on the hon. gentleman, and its efiect. He said that, in September last, the people had pro- nounced in favour of this tariff. He (Sir A. J. Smith) would like to know how, or what tariff, since a great many changes had been made in it. He had 06 excused himself for delay at first by stat- ing he was receiving all the deputations before presenting his Budget ; but he thought the hon. gentleman had had as many since as before he submitted it. Fifty changes or more had been made, and it must have been through some magical hidden power. With regard to the elections of September last, the tariff, doubtless, formed the issue in Ontario, but it did not in New Brunswick. If it was , the issue there, how did ho stand here without the confidence of the people of his own Province ] He hatl only three or four of its representatives supporting him. The Finance Minister would not like to return now to St. John for re- election. He would advise him, should this tariff pass, to tiy and find a constitu- ency in Ontario. The hon. gentleman had just said something about his (Mr. Smith) having to spend $20,000 for re- election. Was he prepared to back up that statement 1 It was said there were enormous sums spent in St. Johns to se- cure the Finance Minister's election, and that otherwise he would not have been returned— that there Iiad been a marvel- lous change, by which 45 votes against him were changed to 20 for him, in one night in one ward, and that money accounted for the phenomenon. He had made the sugar trade one of the issues in St. John, asserting that the policy of the late Gov- ernment had destroyed the refining inter- ost. He (Sir A. J. Smith) maintained it did not. What did tliat interest amount to 1 To the refining of about 100,000,0001b. per year, which employed about 2GG hands, at the expense of $1,000,000 to the ))eople, for the benefit of a few wealthy refineis. They knew that Red- path, of Montreal, amassed a colossa fortune in this business ; that tJiey had now resumed refining, after having dis- continued it, the papers saying they were going to employ 300 men. He would read an extract from a work, to show how comparatively unimportant an in- dustry this was. He was amazed to hear hon. gentlemen make the statement they did — it was evident they did not under- stand the question — that sugar refining was going to encourage a very large trade with the West Indies. Why, any man, almost, in Montreal, knew that they could not do a large direct trade with the West Indies, on account of physical difii- culties and natural obstacles, the St. Lawrence being closed five months in the year. The West Indian crop came in January and February. But if the whole quantity used in Canada were brought hither in Canadian vessels, it would only employ 40 of 1,000 tons each, the consumption being 55,000 tons. Vessels of 1,000 tons could carry 1,500 tons dead weight. Mr. DOMVILLE: Why does the hon. gentleman not take into account the molasses 1 Sir A. J. SMITH said he was speak- ing of tlie refining only. Mr. DOMVILLE : That is not a fair calculation. The hon. gentleman knows they do not employ vessels of that kind in the trade. Sir a. J. SMITH said, suppose they included molasses, and admitted that 80 vessels of 1,000 tons each would be employed — what did that amount tot They could not conceive that the carry- ing of 40,000 tons of merchandise would prove of great consequence to Canadian trade. Some supposed that if a sugar refinery were established in Montreal, the sugar would be carried thither in English bottoms, whereas none of the vessels would come by the St. Lawrence, as the sugar crop was carried to Canada in winter. Their Canadian vessels went out for it in November and December. Nothing was clearer than that the sugar used at Redpath's refinery in Montreal, would come in by Portland, being car- ried to that port by, perhaps, Canadian, or PS likely by Danish or other foreign vessels, as there was no mono})oly. A large portion of the sugar imported now was carried by Canadian v(^ssels to New York and Boston. " Recent English trade tables show that th« entire amoimt of sugar relmed in the thre« kingdoms, in 1875, was 1,821,647,632 lbs., giving employment to 5,174 persons. In Canada, we consume 94,000,000 lbs. annually, and, if this whole amount was refined in the Dominion, it would give em|)loympnt to 266 persons; computing according to the ratio of labour to production, as shown by the Eng- lish returns." Now, the facts set forth in that extract, as to the smalhieaa (T real, car- ian. it the thre« lbs., In ually, the 266 ,tio of Eng- ex- by to by of the number of those employed in re- fining all the sugar Canada needed could easily be verified by the Minister of Fi- nance. Three hundred were all that would be necessary. "Was it worth while — would it help the labouring classes to take $1,000,000 out of their pockets for the purpose of employing but 300 persons, and increasing the al- ready enormous fortunes of the few sugar refiners ] The whole Dominion was not interested in that small indus- try. The people wanted cheap sugar, which the hon. gentlemen seemed deter- mined they should not have. The draw- back paid the American refinei'S on sugar exported to Canada must inure to the benefit of its peojile. But the Fi- nance Minister would not allow that to continue ; he said, practically, we want to swell the fortunes of the Montreal refiners at the expense of the people of Canada. Tlie hon. gentleman from Cardwell had read several tracts from speeches made leading statesmen in England, show that the bounties given France on sugar were injurious to the in- terests of England, or would prove inju- rious ultimately ; but they all admitted that the efiect was to make sugar cheaper in England. It was said here that sugar would not be cheaper under this system than it would be under this new tariff, but all the speeches quoted were to the effect that the bounty system made sugar cheaper. His hon. friend from Bothwell (Mr. Mills), as well as his hon. friend from Kingston (Mr. Gunn), had dealt most effectively with this subject. They seemed to un- derstand what they were talking about, and, therefore, lie would not go further into the matter. It was now said they must import their tea direct from China. He (Sir A. J. Smith) would assert that this was impossible. We could not shut our eyes to the fact that the United States lay to the south et us. We had only two ports — St. John and Halifax — open in the winter, every other port of the Dominion being closed during that season. How, then, could we tratle with these distant countries 1 His hon. friend from King's (Mr. Domville) knew well that they could not navigate the St. Lawrence during the winter months, and that they could not do direct trade from the St. Lawrence ports with these dis- tant countries. The voyage of a vessel would vary from 30 to 60 days, and, when she arrived at the mouth of the St. Lawrence in winter, she had to seek some other open ])trt. We should mould our policy with due regard to the condi- tions of our country. The United States had the advantage of us in that respect. Every port there was open in the winter months, and why was it in the interests of the people of this country that two or three men in Montreal, or other cities, should ha ^'e a monopoly of the tea trade? Was it not desirable to buy tea where we could get it the cheapest '? When he looked at the condition of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, he saw that a great and serious injury would be inflicted by the passage of this resolution, which imposed a duty of 10 per cent, on tea imported from the United States. They sent vessels from the western coasts of Nova Scotia andNew Brunswick, laden with the products of tlie country, potatoes, apples and fish, even fresh fisli, to the United States, and ihey had tea brought back. The small trader in Nova Scotia would send spples or potatoes, and would got a re- turn cargo of sugar, tea, or other things required for a country store. Were they going to prevent his doing his legitimate business, by saying he must buy from Montreal, which had monopolised the tea business ? It waB said that an importer could buy in Eng- land, and get tea in bond through the United States, and bring it to Montreal in bond, and pay the duty in this coun- try. Would they allow this rich man, this wholesale dealer, who was doing a large business, to import his tea through the United States, in bond, and then tel I the poorer people and small traders that they should not buy anywhere else 1 Why liad not the ti-ader, who went to Boston, or New York, a right to buy in bond, and take his tea home, if it would ad- vance the interests of his business 1 It seemed to him that this provision was entirely in the interest of two or three men, who wanted a complete monopoly of the tea trade of the country. No Canadian would bring his tea direct from China. Ho would bring it into the United States and pass it through that country in bond, and that man would ' 08 have 10 per cent, advantage over another who bought his tea in the United States, or anywhere else. He trusted the Finance Minister would give this matter his consideration, in order to see if he could not change it. It was no reason, because the sug- gestion came from the Opposition, that it should not be considered, as the pro- vision was detrimental to the interests of the country. Now he came to the con sideration of the lumber interest. This was confessedly one of the most impor- tant interests in this country, next to the farming interest. He would ask the Finance Minister where there was any Protection for the lumbermen. The lumbering interest was as much depressed as any interest in this country, and pro- bably more. Unless some change took place, lumbermen must break down, and fail. Unless freights were low, it would be impossible to ship lumber at all, but the manufacturers of lumber did not get more than enough to pay for the labour, and the lumber itself was practically given away. They were giving a draw- back to the shipping interest, which was as prosperous as the lumber interest, be- cause ships went to every part of the world wherever they heard of prosperity. A ship was not confined to any country. She went abroad, and her flag floated on every sea. It was very different with the lumber interest. While the hon. gentleman was desirous of protecting the shipping interest — although he (Sir A. J. Smith) did not think any change was required ; it ought not to complain, and the duty now was very trifling — they should not t iscriminate against and de- stroy the lunber interests. The latter gave employmtrnt to more men than the shipping interest did, and should have some protection. What protection had iti His hon. friend from Queen's county (Mr. King), than whom no one was more competent to make a calculation, had reckoned the very serious additional tax which this tariflT would place on lum- ber. He (Sir A. J. Smith) could see no compensating advantages for this addi- tional duty, which was struck at this important duty. There was nothing in the tariff which did not strike at the lumber interest. Lumbermen would have to cease their operations in consequence of this tariff, in which there wex-e ele- ments of destruction and decay of that industry which could not possibly be avoided. He had already stated that the Finance Minister had turned his back upon his own Province. His predictions had certainly been falsified. He had stated that a taxation of $2.75 per head was all that would be required for twenty-five years. His hon. friend from St. John (Mr. Burpee) had prepared with great skill a statement showing the effect of this tariff on the commerce of this country, showing that, if the impor- tations were the same as those of last year, this tariff would increase the burdens of the people to the oxtent of $7,000,000 a year. He (Sir A. J, Smith) had not heard that statement challenged. Ho thought, therefore, it was fair to assume it was true ; if not, he thought the Finance Minister would have challenged it before this. Mr. TILLEY : We will challenge it. There is plenty of time. Sir a. J. SMITH about it. You are slow Mr. TILLEY : I am not as slow m you. I have spoken twice, and this is your first speech. Sir a. J. SMITH said he had been in hopes of getting light from the hon. gen- tleman ; but his first speech, instead of throwing light, seemed to throw dark- ness. The hon. gentleman had not thrown a great deal of light on the sub- He had not told the House, as he to have told them, how much money this tariff would realise. ject. ought Mr. TILLEY : Yes. Sir a. J. SMITH : How much ? Mr. TILLEY : |2.1 00,000. Sir a. J. SMITH said that was what was estimated to get into the revenue ; but the hon. gentleman had not told the House how much it would take out of the people. The statements of his hon. friend from St. John had remained un- challenged, that the burdens on the people would amount to $7,000,000. They would accept the statement of the n 09 Finance Minister, that the operation of this tariff would put into the Treasury $2,100,000, That, then, -would leave a balance of $4,900,000 to go into the hands of manijfacturers. That would be the logical conclusion. He now de- sired to show the effect which this tariff would have on New Brunswick, because, though he owned they ought not to be governed by sectional feeling — Mr. TILLEY : Hear, hear. Sir a. J. SMITH said, still, he would ask, did the Finance Minister want him, as a representative of New Brunswick, to consent to a tariff whicli discriminated against her own people. It was the duty of the representatives from the Province to endeavour to protect the interests of the Province. This tariff did operate injuriously to New Brunswick, and dis- criminated against that Province. The Finance Minister seemed to have shut his eyes to the true interests of New Bruns- wick. The amount of Customs duties collected in New Brunswick, last year, amounted to $1,448,000, which was equal to about $5 per head. Mr. TILLEY : Was it not more than that last year ? There was $400,000, or $500,000 from the St. John fire. Sir a. J. SMITH said that no doubt the fire had made the amount rather ab- normal, but the normal condition, under the late tariff, would be about $1,448,000. Mr. TILLEY : No. Sir a. J. SMITH said this would be equal to about $5 per head. Then the amount received from Excise was $261,000, and from stamps $14,000, or »boiit $1 per head, making a total of about $6 per head of the population. That was about the same amount as ex- isted when the Finance Minister left office in 1873. He had admitted that the late Finance Minister was correct in his calculations as to the shrinkage in values. Sir a. J. SMITH : What was it last year 1 Mr. TILLEY : Last year was the year of the fire. Sir a. J. SMITH: But the hon. member said the whole amount of taxation would be only $2.75 ^;er capita. Mr. TILLEY: Yes, I remember that. Mr. TILLEY : The torn and Excise for $1,321,464. of Cus- 1876-77, was Sir a. J. SMITH said the hon. gentleman had exceeded that in any case. The least increased cost under the present tariff, exclusive of the tax on coal and flour, would be $806,000. He would like to know if the Finance Minister was prepared to controvert these fig'i»'<>'» ] Suppose the price of coal and flour wats not augmented, there would still be aii additional cost to the Province of New Brunswick. The popu- lation of New Brunswick being about 300,000, this would amount to upwards of $3 per head under the new tariff. Mr. TILLEY : Hear, hear. Sir a. J. SMITH said he would like the Finance Minister to controvert that if he could. If the importations were the same as those of last year, the in- crease would be $3 per head, making the total taxation from $8 to $9 per head oa the population of New Brunswick. That was a matter which deserved the most careful consideration of the Gov- ernment. He (Sir A. J. Smith) felt it his duty to protest, on behalf of the people of New Brunswick, against thw tariff, as specially injurious to them. He believed it would be an incubus on the whole Dominion. He believed it would be inimical to the interests of the Do- minion. Hon. gentlemen deprecated sectionalism, though, he thought, they ought to regard the interests of the dif- ferent Provinces in preparing a tariff. They were not to prepare a tariff for the interests of Ontario, if they were inimical to those of New Brunswick or Nova Scotia. He considered they must have regard to the interests of the whole Do- minion ,||becau8e there were great diversi- ties of climate, soil and resources. There were great geographical differences, which 60 made it necessary to consider the inter- ests of various portions of the Dominion. He believed this tariff would liave the effect of disturbing the domestic harmony which existed between the different Pro- vinces, and which it was most d3sirable to 2)romote a-s far as possible. If they created a bad feeling in one Province, it must injuriously affect the interests of the whole Dominion. More than that, though the idea seemed to be scoffed at by the other side, he believed the ten- dency of the tariff would be to alienate and estrange, commercially and poli- tically, this country from the Mother Country. They knew what the policy of the Em]nre was. They saw from the tone of the papers, the various indications in the press of England, that much dissatisfiiction was felt towards this Government and the people, by the recent imposition of this policy. These resolutions provided that the United States, whenever they showed a disposi- tion to reeijirocate, on certain ai tides mentioned in the free lisst — and he might remark that lie thought the article of free-stone should be included in that list — might do so. They had not made any provision in regard to England. England now received these goods free, but no consideration had been shown for England. It was true we had a right to regulate our own iiscal affairs, and it did not seem to be disputed in Englsnd, that we had a right to adopt such a course as would best protect^ our interests. But it seemed to him only fair that, as an in- tegral part of the Empire, we should have some regard for, and consult, as far as was consistent with our own interests, the policy of the Empire. They knew that the feeling of England was against this tariff. Why should we discriminate against England 1 Would the Finance Minister say that this tariff did not dis- criminate against England 1 Mr. TILLEY : Yes, I do. Sib a. J. SMITH said the statistics showed that, while this tariff averaged 7 per cent, on our whole imports from the United States, it averaged 10| per cent, on English goods. The hon. gentle- man included in his estimate $14,000,000 of grains and flour exported, which simply passed through Canada in transitu. His impression was,' in con- clusion, that the effect of the tariff would tend to bring about ultimately a separa- tion between the two countries. MB. FZCKAHD. April 22nd, 1870. Mr. PTCKARD said the question had already been discussed by old politicians and young politicians, by lawyers' and doctors, and professional politicians. When he first heard of the term National Policy, he thought it sounded very well, and had hoped that the Finance Minister would not forget one Province, but he had forgotten New Brunswick, and the policy, instead of being a national, was a sectional one. The chief interests in New Brunswick were the lumber in- terest and the shipping interest, at which this tariff struck a serious blow. The lumber interest was most important, and, though depressed, it still made the great staple of the exports of St. John to the markets of the world. The Finance Minister had told them it was a waning industry, but no one should know its value better than he. The city of St. John, which he represented, would never have grown to its present position on the rock but for the lumber and shipping interest. That hon. gentleman had told the people the tariff would be so re- adjusted that all interests would be pro- tected. He (Mr. Pickard) would ask in what way the lumbering and shipping interests were protected 1 He agreed with the opinion of the hon. member for Queen's (Mr. King), on its evil effect, as far as the lumber interest was concerned. The figures of that hon. gentleman had not been answered by any hon. member. There was not a lumberman in New Brunswick, or in the Ottawa Valley, but must know that this tariff would in- crease the burdens on that industry. He asked them to look across the river here at those piles of lumber, which had been lying there for the past four years, and to consider whether, by increasing the burden of taxation on lumber, they would stand a better chance of being re- moved. He entered his protest against the imposition of duties on floui', as well as all the articles which entered into consumption in the lumber trade, as well as our various other industries. ERRATA. In 2nd coliirai;, page 13, line 45, /or exiorts read imports. " 47, " imports « exports. " 47, " £272,000,000 reai £273,000,000. (( (C u « « i ■ i m II