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OTTAWA I PSINTKD AT THK '* FKKE PBESS " OFTICB 1878. \%.. ^1 CIRCULATION" -OF — DEPRECIATED SILVER. DEBATE IN THE SENATE" March 18th, 1878. OTTAWA : PBINTED AT TIIK " FREE PRF^SS '" OFFICE 1878. 1 O I K/ C TJ Xj ^ T I O IsT — OF- DEPEECIATED SILYEK. DEBATE IN THE SENATE, March 18th, 1878. Hon. Mr. BUREAU enquired :— *' Whether in view of the remonctization of " tilver in the United States, measures will be " taken by the (tovernment during the present " Session to prevent the recurrence of the " abuses and losses which were formerly oc- " casioned by the circulation, as a medium of " exchange, of silver coins whose conventional " and fictitious value were not in accordance " with their real or market value?" He said : — This is no new question in this House. It has been discussed over and over again, and committees have in- vestigated and reported njwn it. Alter much trouble and great expense we suc- ceeded in relieving oui-selves of the " sil- ver nuisance" some years ago. The Bland Silver Bill which has lately been pa.ssed by Congress in the United States has now become law, and it is evident that very soon an immense quantity of silver coin will be issued from the United States mint. We must endeavor to pre- vent this depreciated coin from affecting \is injuriously in Canada, and avoid the annoyance and loss which we suffered in 1868. In that year a Bill was introduced in the House of Commons in view of the action of the Conference at Paris, but this measure was never put in force in this country. It is Cap. 45 in the Statutes of 1868, and refers to the money of the United States, because it was ex- pected then that our neighbora would ac- cept the decision of the Paris Conference. They did not accept it, however, and that Act was never put into force. It was one of those measures that have no effect un- til put into oiiei-ation by proclamation of the Governor-General. The only law we have had since that time on the subject is the Act of 1871, and this has been un- changed except to extend it to the Pro- vinces which subsequently entered the Confederation. The difference between the two Acts is this: the Act of 1868 provided that a certain amount ot Ameri- can silver of a certain standard would be a legal tender in this country, but the money to which it referred never became current in the United States, and conse- quently the Act did not go into opei-ation. In the law of 1871 the only reference to silver is in the eighth clause, and that fiimply (k'clarcfl no Sllvnr hut that of Ciin- tula shall be a logiil tendor to a certain anioiint, which \h (ixed at ten ('.ollaiH. Sir Francis HinlcB, in hin Hppech on that question, stated that in 1871 there was about $10,000,000 of forei<,'n silver in circulation in Canada, and he made some calculations it;si)octing the loss wh. h that money caused to the public. He ' ought six millions of that amount changed hands every month, giving it a circidation of f 72,000,000 in twelve months. Then he goes on to say if you pay a (juarter per cent commission, you anive at a loss of $1 80,000 annually. That is to say, in five yeai-s there is a loss of $900,000. But that wiw not all. There was a loss of foiir per cent in addition, which in five years would amount to the enormous sum of Ije- tweeii fourteen and fifteen millions of dollai-s. Some members objected at the time that it was a very extraordinary loss, but those who have any knowledge of the business of the country at that time, will not be 8uri)ri8ed at the amount. In the district where I live, people who would go to some of the banking institu- tions to discount notes would receive large quantities of those depreciated half- dollar and twenty-five cent i)ieces at par, and thus a large cjuantity of this coin was put in circulation. But, when those who had received this money from the bank had to meet their liabilities, the bank refused American silver, and they were obliged to purchase Canadian money from the brokers and pay a discount of four or five per cent., according to circum- stances. Th:vt was a matter of every-day occurrence, and I am satisfied that the losses were as large as stated by Sir Francis Hincks. Hon. Mr. WILMOT— In Canada? Hon. Mr. BUREAU— Yes. In New Brunswick you had no loss. An hon. gentleman from that Province hius in- formed nje that as soon as this difjiculty arose, the bankei-s of New Brunswick held a meeting and decided they would not take the depreciated coin at less tium twenty per cent discoimt. That was sufficient to check the circulation of such silver in the Province. The only remedy which we have now is in the customs laws, but does that furnisli all the protec- tion that we need 1 I doubt it very much. Tt provides that all silver from the Unitenjvent the im|)ortation of silver. Probably if our bat kers would follow the example set them by our friends in Now Brunswick, there would be no necessity for any further legislation. Then arises the x|U!n(Iiture of nionoy, wliieh could only h(! done on a mcHHago from His Excellency. Tho liist i)aragra|)li in tho I'cpoi-t was an follows : — " The committee tlicrefore reconmiend that " the plan adopted by the tiovernment in )8(i8, " by which silver, to the amount of §1,(K)0,0<0, " was purchased and exported to JlnKland and " the IJnited States, or any other plan which " the (iovernment may deem proper for the " removal of the foUowing amount, be again " put in operation and carried on until an " amount eiiual to §5,000,000, shall have been " withdrawn from the circulation of the '' country." As 1 said at the outset this is a ([uost- ion -which has been fidly discussed in the House of Conimona, tlie hoards of trade, and hy business men tlii'ou<»hout the country. To fully understand the iniitort- a nee of tlie matter, I will read jmrtofa return to an Address of the lIous(^ of Com- mons, dated 2:$rd April. 1.SG9 ; for copies of all eonnnur.ieations to and from " wish to be informed of the price at wliieh it can " lie disposed of eitlier in London or elsewhere. " It consists ehierty of half doUars and twenty- " live cent pieces, with a f>-w pieces of smaller " denomination, and has almost all been coined " since 185'2. " By reference to the Heiiort of the Di ector "of the United Slates Mint, you will perceive " that the fineness of these coins is represented " to be iJOO thousandth, and that they weigh in " grains : — C rains. " The Half-dollar W-2 " Ouiirter- dollar f_*5 centd) 'M " Uime (10 cents) :«.4 ^' Half-dime (.') mits) VX'2 " The half dollar and nuarter dollar jiieioH " have probably l<).st about lialf a uraineach by " attrition. 1 should be greatly obliged if yoii " will, at your early convenience, fnrnisli mo " with such information touching the rate at " wliii h, say (me million of dollars coulil bd "disposed of in l.oildon, and the cha ges which " would attend the opcrction of converting it " into casli, to be available for the general prr- " poses of the (ioveinmint in Kngland. " I have, itc, " (Signed) JOHN UOSK " Minister of Finance." The answer to this was U8 follows : — "I'er 'Ilussia.' " London, January 18, 18C8. " To tho Hon. John Kose, " Alinister of Finance, Ottawa. '• SjB,_\Ve have the honor to acknowledge " the receipt of your letter of the .Slst ultimo, " en(iuiring as to the rate at which one million "of dollars of UnitKl States silver currency " could be disposed (jf in this market, and we " now beg to enclose a /iro fmma aecoiint, " showing the result of such an operation. Tho " charge for freight has not been included as " we snjipose y cm would have no ditiiculty in " asrertaining that on your side. We are in- " formed that it would be more advantageous " to make the shipment to Southampton than " to any other liritish port. " Hoping that this information may be satis- " factory to you, " We have the honor to remain, Sir, " Your most obedient servants, " (Signed) (ii.vN, Mills, Cukiue & Co." The following is the projorina account sale of American silver coin received from Canada on account of tlu concerned : — f, s. d. " •S.'iOO.OOO in American halves " and (piarter dollars, weijih- "ingoz. 400, OOOat 4. lOs per oz. 97,708 (! 8 " .'5500,000 in American dimes " and half-dimes, weighing oz. " 400,000 at 4 10^ per oz 07,r.00 €11).-). -JOS « 8 ('iiaf;.:ks 1,790 2 Net proceeils £I9.'5,418 6 " K,E. LoNOo.v, January, 18()8. " The weights of the dollars are as they are " taken from the mint. " The actual out-turn in London, would lie " from 1 to '^ per cent less, according to the " time they have been in circulation The price " al.so might vary slightly according to tiie " state of the silver market." We have here an idea of the extraoici- nary expense we had to incur to get rid of that silver coin. TTon. !\rr. AVII.iMOT— Does it stute what the loss would be on the shipmeni ] 6 Tlon. Mr. mr|{F-:Ar Tt .I.,oh „„t li\\i' any iifcoiiiit of iiiMiiriiiirn or licight ; that wftH ndditional. TIkto jh anotlmr Ntatcinoiit at tlic cn.l of tlir convKpond- oncc ill wliicli y,,ii will (ii,,! tJic liymcN. [ tliiiik till! lowest was ft.', per cfiit. On tii<- nth of Kchiuaiy, iSdM Sir .John Hoso writoH to tho huiik! parties : - .< ." ''"XTt.EMKN.-I havo tho lionor to (icknow- ^^ lu.lKo the rmiipt of your lottor of tliu Kith « !."!1"*7,' '""•'!"'« •••;*** lifrcwith a statement received trom the Huaiicial AKents in En^'land. of the prohal.le return which a shipment of that ^^ silver would yiel.l ; Init he eoneeivea it Wouhl 1.0 uimdvisahle owiiiK to the want of proper _ facilities, for tho (iovcrnmout itself to at- loinpt the purchase and remittance. « ' [i ."'7'"f""'i' recommends that ho be aiithorize.l to make arrangements with tho __ hnancial Agents in Canada, to purchase .. i'.'i?'',v»>","'rr*" ■"' '*'""""* ""* exceeding .>(.00,0()0 l,y the,ss,ieof(i per cent, l.on.ls, iu ^^ such sunis, payable at 20 or iT, years' date, as ^_ may he thought advisable, which the (iovern- "lent .shall have the ojition of converting into ^J)ominion Stock within seven years' date, _ii!'"n the understan.ling that the rates shall ^^ be such as that the interest to the Covcrn- ^^ m.nt.sliallnotevc.cd (!.' per cent, per an- niiin, over a jicrind „{ '2.'> years. " (-"'i'llcd,) .J,, UN n.i.sK, ,, ,■,,. ,, , " Minister of Finaiieo." Ottawa, l-'ebrmry ;!, 1868." llio next pa]. or is a copy of a report of a committff. of tli<. JVivy (.•ou.icil, aii- proved l.y Hi.s Kx.-.'lleuf.v tlie ({ovorn,,,- '■eiiciai m Coiiiifil, on (iio 1th of Feh- riuiry, 18(J{ into Dominion ' .Stfiek within seven yonis' dato, upon the •' understandinK that tho rates sliall be such as ^^ that tho inteiust to tlio (Jovernmont shall not ' exceed (ii per cent, per luinum, spriftd over a period of '.'ii years. " Tho Committoe advise that tho authority reipiested bo granted "Cortilied. (Signed,) W.M. H. Lkk, " C. I' (J " To tho Ifon. tho Minister of Finanoe," 4c., Ac, 4e. When wo take into conHidenitioii ail the (IKHcultioH that we had to face to lo- lioye the country of the silver nuisance, it is iniportiint that we should thoroughly unilerstand every step which was taken by tho Government at that period. I will, therefore, continue to (piote from the coriespondenci'. The next letttu- was to the miuiaf,'er of the Hank of Montreal. 1 will lead that letter and the reiily, which are as follows : — (Copy ) "MoNTRKAi,, 10th February, 1808." ^^ " Dk.vu Sir, —Tho (iovcrnnient is desirous of ^ exporting a ipiantity of American silver, if it • can bo done on siifticiently favoraldo terms. , ',' ^ *'m.'"' y" ''erowith copies of a letter from the I'lnaneial Agents in London, eontainiiur projoniui account .sales, shewing how iniicli in sterling a milliou „f dollars of diUerent coins would realize in London. •' My object in now flddrensing you is to ask " whether the Hank will undertake the niana«e. •' iiieiit of the transaction, and at what latc of " Coiiiini siuii. '' ' propose to issue «.' per cent Dominion _ Mood.s 111 currency, at '2.-) years' date, and to ^ give them in payment for the silver, but not '^ at rates which will cost the (iovernnient " more than i\\ per ce;,t per annum for tho money. " The holder will have the option of conver- '■ ting the l'.oniigneii,) .John Rosk, K \\. Koig, Ivi,,,, (ienerrtl Man.ager, " lank ot .Montreal, Montreal. I ail Hilvorto an ) l>y tho iNNiiii lUH, payahh' «t fty l>u tliouKlit 3iit Hlinll liavo to Diiininidii itc, ii|M)n tho Uvll III! HUcll ft« rnunt hIiiiII nut , Hprtml ovor tho authority H. Lkk, " C. I' C. iianco," V. ilonitiou nil ) fiic'O to ro- T niUHniicc, I thoroughly was taken period. I quote from I lett(;r wan f IVroiitrpsiI. tho reply, lary, 1808." in desirous of in silver, if it al)le terms, a letter from n. ooiitaining how niueh in iU'erent uoina 'Oil is tvi auk ' the nianane- wiiat late of it I)(ii)iinion date, and to ver, but not (iovernnient nuin for tlio in of conver- lek. our o]iinion ieted on the B wisdom of inversion of , or whetlier folhiw tlie en and as it ralile terms, {"isal of the he trim.sae- \ §500,000, result eouhl loifN RosK, •eal. " IUNK Of MoNTIlEAI,, " Mohttjal, lOth I'Vliruary, 18(i8. " DkAK Sik,~-I have to ackiiow' 'no your " letter of tluH date, upon tho Muhji . t exiiort " ing a ((uantity of Anioriean silver, if it ui.u he " done oil HUlliuiontly favourahle terms. "I have exanumed the /iro /nnna account <* na,\e» of jIl.OOO.OOO in American silver olituined " Ity tho (iovorunieiit from tho Fiuaueial A|{untH " in London. " As they remark on the postsoript an al- " lowanuo of from one to three per cent for " depreciation wouhl have to lie nuido for the " time the coin had lieeii in cireidation, and " tho Agents have also lieen unalilo to take •' into tiieir ealeulutions tho ocean freight and " express charges from Canada to the sealioard. " I ferred to by the hon. member, but whai, those measures are I am not yet prepared to say. It is a subject whicli attracted tlie attention of the Gov- ernment even before the hon. gentleman {)laced his notice on the paper, and since he has made his able speech, the Govern- ment will avail themselves of the informa- tion which he has furnished. 9 no of the three 3(1 to as being ivs of nations, hich attended wick bankera, he moral in- this countiy, tion, to aid in he silver nui- irse would not ither remedy, ch we can say authorized to I n\oney and ectly or indi- itutions have this country, ce^sary to call e they should ;, to have them 4ity of further Ivantage that a depreciated V our commer- ufacturing in- ense loss every the amount of ate, and I do unite to pre- [le meantinie it lent to give the may be neces- of trade. If I V i! oe of Mani- )- 1.1 circulation ary business of jquence is, ten a half. I beg, he Go- ei-nment !umstauces. i — I f|uite agree this is a matter 10 hou. geutle- this ipiestion, will be greatly ions. It is cer- Govei-nment to the abuses and to by tlie hon. measures are I . It is a subject ion of the Gov- liou. gentleman apor, and since ch, the Govern- 3 of the iuforma- !d. i Hon. Mr. HOrE— I do not tliink that we require any further legislation with regard to this matter. What the (Jov. ernnient should do is to see that there is sufficient silver coin of our own to meet the wants of the country. If they will do thao and enforce the laws we have, I don't think we will be troubled as we were during the American war. The peo- ple of this country were unac()uainted with the real difficulty that beset us ao that time. They were under the impres- sion that the American silver which was in circulation during the rebellion, was tiie same coin that was current in the United States from the foundation of the Kepublic. In 1H.53, however, the Unit d States Government assimilated the law with regard to silver, to the law adopted I by Great Britain in 181G, by reducing \ the value of silvei- coinage about six per | cent. Tl»c American peoi)le had the dou- ' ble standard, and whenever silver became dearer than gold, which it did prior to I 18.53 from the demand f(n' it in the East Indies anc China, the silver Avas swept out of the country to supply the demand for it m the East, and the Americans could not undei'stand what had Viecome ot their silver coin. It was be ause it was dearer than gold that it was exported. By reducing its value six i)er cent, they kept it in the country. Wlieu the re- bellion broke out in the United States, and people in this country wanted to ex- change their greenbacks into coin or specie, they were offered uj) to, say 10.5, if they would take silver instead of g;ld. The Canadians thought they were making a good bargain and took the silver, liut it became understood afterwards it was only silver tokens they were getting and not silver of the same value as the coin in cir- culation prior to 1S.53. We had all the loss and inconv'enience from tliis depre- ciated silver being thrown upon (Canada. Sir Francis Hincks was the first finance minister who really understood the ques- tion, and the measures he took to jiut an end to it by creating and giving to the ]M'0{)le a sufficient supply of our own coin, and placing a nominal value on American silver, were most eflectnal. If the Gov- ernment will ]>ei-severe in that coui-se, they will save our peo]ile from any loss which might result from the remonetiza- tion of silver in the United States. AVe should recoL'iiize no silver coin lait the coinage of our own country. I am glad the attention of the Government has been called to this important question, and I hope they will see to it that we do not sustain any loss or inconvenience from the absurd legislation on the other side of the lines. Hon. Mr WILMOT — I think the hon. gentleman who has just addressed the House, has not fully understood the legis- lation with regard to the silver imisance. If I recollect correctly when Sir John Rose was Finance Minister, he em])loyed an agent at Montreal to buy up the de- ])reciated silver and ship it from the coun- try. It cost this Dominion a large amount to send it away, and the system adoi>ted reminded me of a man trying to dip up a river with, a seive. As fast ap it was taken out it came in again, and tlie only plan which succeeded in keeping it out tvas that of Sir Francis Hincks, by issuing shinplastera, so called. Hon. ]\rr. PENNY— O, no ! Hon. Mr. WILMOT— I beg the hon. gentleman's ])ardon. He issued small notes and they became the change for carrying on the retail lousiness of the country. It is a niiitter of history, and there is no doubt about it at all. Those- shinplasters, as they were called, actually cured the silver nuisance, and nothing else. When the present Government came into j)Ower, their very first act was to introduce a measure to tie up their hands so that they could issue no more Dominion notes beyond ' twelve millions, except they held gold, dollar for dollar. I fought against the Bill in this House, and I think it i- a great jiity it passed. The notes are just as useful for the purjiose of exchanging commodities in our own home trade as gold or silver, but, unfortunately^ the Government seemed to be under the dictation of the bankers, and they restricted the circulation. It is now nearly up to .$12,0()(»,0()(J, and beyond that there must be a dollar in gold for every dollar in notes that is issued. If this silver nuisance should come into the Dominion from the United States, they will have to repeal that law in or,00() sterling. Germany after the close of the war, demonetized silver, which brought about a commercial panic that slie is still suffering under. She pre- viously had the double standard. The United States had always the double standard until a few years ago, wluin a section was smuggled into a bill and not generally known, which demonetized sil- ver, and now by moi'e than a two-thirds vote over the President's veto, Congress has decided to go back to the double stand- ard. I only rose to correct the hon. the Senator from Hamilton with regard to what cured the silver nuisance. It was cui-ed by the issue of small notes, called fractional currency, under the Bill of Sir Francis Hiiicks. Hon. Mr. HOPE— No, no. Hon. I^Ir. WILMOT— I say yes, yes; Sir Francis Hincks issued the small notes. Hon. Mr. PENNY— We had plenty of one dollar notes before. Hon. IMr. WILMOT— I speak of the fractional currency — twenty-five cent notes. Hon. Mr. PENNY— We had them for a short time, but they were all called in. Hon. Mr. WILMOT — There are some in circulation yet. There was no necessity for calling them in. They cost only the paper and printing and the numbers lost and destroyed more than paid tlie cost. What was the necessity to issue l)onds ard tax the people to pay Gk per cent interest upon them, when th(* Government could have supplied fractional currency without cost to the peoj)le. Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— As far as I can remember, the Bank of France has not been paying specie for a long time. Tliey hold ii large amount of si)ecie but as a matter of fact, it is merely held to give public confidence and not to redeem their notes. Hon. Mr. WILMt^T— Tlie Economist say they resumed specie |)ayment last Jan- uary, but, iit all events, the people of France have carried on their business with the notes of the JJank of France which are hsgal tender, and in the darkest period of the war the discount never exceedeil two per cent. The argument of the hon. Senator from Hamilton, if carried to its logical .setpience. would be to aV)olish the fixed value of silver or gold. He speaks of silver going out to India and China ; we know perfectly well silver is the only in those countries. They legal tender 11 ti-nat gold as an article of coinnierce and so it ouglit to be treatnd in every country. Hon. Mr. PENNY — This is a question in which we are all intei-ested, and I sup- ])0M there is no ditTerence of opinion that the Government should do what is neces- sary to prevent a repetition of the silver nuisance in this countiy, but I am afraid my lion, friend (Mr. Wilmot) does not un- derstand the manner in which the silver nuisance was got rid of. Sir John Hose did not, as he thinks, begin to export tlie silver ; Mr. Weir, a broker, began it in Montreal, as a private speculation, with the assistance of merchants there. Sir Francis Hincks subsequently met the aifficulty in a manner that I thought at | the time would never succeed, because it | seemed to me very like the o[)eration des- ! cribed by my hon. friend, dipping water out of a river with a sieve. He bought up the depreciated silver and exported it. Hon. Mr. WILMOT— He did not buy the silver, he issued notes. Hon. Mr. PENNY— The silver bought by the Government was all bought during 8ir Francis Hincks' time. Mi'. Weir commenced it as a private speculation. Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— Sir Francis Hincks issued shini)lastera to supply its place. Hon. Mr. PENNY— Exactly. That was becaxise he had nut the silver coinage to replace what he was driving out. But the moment he got Cianadian silver he recalled the shinplasters, as he had in- tended to do from the first. The shin- plasters were a temporary expedient. Sir Francis HlncKs would be tlie last, I iim sure, to entertain the currency doc- trines of my hon. friend, however valu- able they may appear to be. The people might, from the first, have refused to take the"se ([aarter-doUars. If they had known their true iutertJst they woidd have always repudiated them. Sir Francis Hincks by ii minatory sort of process, forced them to do so, then he issued the fractional cur- rency to take their \Ai\ce till he could get Canadian coin ; at the same time bviying up the American silver and exporting it. That got rid of the luiisancvi ; but it must be remembered a duty of 17i per cent was put on the importation of this silver, iuid this prevented it from coming back again after it was exported. My own^ impression is (I speak witli a great 'eul of d!"' ''uce on the subject) tiiat the 17.V nt duty is likely to keep it out under ircumstances. >n. Mr. LEWIN— This question s simply and practically down to the , ,tecb the remonetization of silver in the United States and the recoining of silver currency is likely to have on our trade and commerce. No doubt during the late rebellion in the United States, Canada suffered great inconvenience from the influx of silver into this country. In New Brunswick we avoided that difficulty by our own caution : the bankers met together and decided that they would only receive American silver at such a rate of discount that it would pay for all the expenses of exi)or- tation and leave a small nuirgin over-. The consequence was, brokers who had ordereil large quantities of American silver count- ermanded their orders, and this prompt action saved the province a great deal of trouble. If the representatives of the monetary institutions ot this country would meet together, and fix a rate at which they would receive this silver, they would very soon check the silver nuisance. American silver woiild then come in here as bullion, and it would be taken and treated as bullion. If the Government should fix a value for American coins by proclamation they would really be mon- etiziag that silver in this country, a policy which should be avoided as much as pos- sible. I believe in the rule adopted by Great Britain of the single standard of gold as a measure of value, and the same principles apply to us as well as to all other countries. I think, myself, instead of calling upon the Government to help us on every occasion we oiight to help ourselves. If the monetary institu- tions of the country would set their faces against taking American silver except as bullion, the ditliculty that is anticipated will be avoided. Hon. Mr. BROWN— In the Province of (Ontario the peoi)le themselves, inthe dif- ferent localities, settled the difficulty most effectually by resolving at public meetings and declaring that they would not take American silver except at certain fixed rates, considerably below tlie bank value. For half-dollars they agreed to give only iO cents ; and for quarter-dollars some- thing less than 20 cents. It was amazing 12 liow rapidly tlie American silver disap- pearefl. The annoyance caused by the vast quantity of it thrown into the coun- try was very great. Jwery merchant had large quantities of it in his vaidts and knew not what to do with it. It was not bankable ; you could not use it in trade ; it was a perfect nuisance. I apprehencl that there is no way of keeping it out ef- fectually except by the people of each locality refusing to take it except at rates that will afford a profit to exjtort it across the lines. But the true plan is, for the banks to buy it up at rates that will give a juofit in sending it back. Hon. Mr. READ— I beg to differ from the hon. gentleman when he says the true way is for the banks to take it in at a reduced price. My ojunion is that the banks should not take it in at all. One thing I would direct attention to, is the great scarcity of one and two dollar bills. i know I am speaking within the hearing of bankers who do not like to hear this ipiestion brought uji, but you may tra^•el half a mile at a time in some of the towns and cities before you can get change for a ten dollar bill. We all know that the reason is the banks get no profit on the issue of the small Dominion notes and when they get them in they keep them. Some jiei-sons can get them, but it seems to be a matter of favour, and it is a great matter of complaint that the people can- not get small notes to make change. I brought this question befoi-e the notice of Parliament before, when I was a inember of the Lower House, Avhen this difficulty existed l)efore previous to the issue of the " shinplastei-s. " I think the Government have made a profit out of the shinplasters because there are only 0112' 000 of them in circulation to-day I suppose they are held by the banks the same as specie, or else they are lost, be- cause it is quite certain they are not in the hands of the general jmblic. I hope was making the Government will take steps to see that there is a better circulation of small bills, in order to meet the requirements of the trading community. Hon. Mr. KAULBACH— This silver and gold question — the great exchanges of the world's commerce — is one that puz- zles me, and at the present time must affect Canada ; but I agree with the hon. gentleman who has just sat down, that there is a great lack of small bills for change thi'oughout the country, and I be- lieve the issue was reduced last year. I think the silver nuisance would V>e avoid- ed to a gi'eat extent, and this Dominion Largely ]iroM^ed. if the Government had power to issue more shinplasters and small bills. The scarcity of such curi'ency necessitates somewhat the circulation of American silver. My impression that many of the banks were money out of the silver nuisance ; that they were issuing American silver at par, and taking it back at ninety cents. While making such a profit out of it, it is questionable whether the banks would voluntarily deprive themselves of such a source of gain. It is in the interest of the country tluit we should have a full- weighted and full standard coin, as it pro- tects and equalizes the value of products of labor in exchange, and all may invest in it with perfect security. My hon. friend from Belleville has stated that there aj'e over $\ 1 2,000 in shinplasters still afloat. But I doubt whether they are in existence ; many are lost and destroyed. They are not in circulation ; the banks may have some, and the Government must profit, not only by the saving of interest, but by tlio destruction and loss of a large number of those small notes. I hope some means will be devised by the Gov(;rnment to pre- vent a recurrence of the silver nuisance in this country, and at the same time ])ut in circulation moi'e of the one and two dollar bills. /'V