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 ipio K^A-irj-w^y. 
 
 SPEECH DELIVERED IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS ON THE 20th APRIL, nu, HI 
 
 Hon. WM. MACDOUGALU 
 
 ON MR. BLAKE'S RESOLUTION. 
 
 Mr. MACDOUGxVLL ; I rise with 
 some reluctance, and — 1 may as well <.'uii- 
 fcKs it — with sonu! trciiiUatiou, to olfor a 
 few oljsei-vatiou.s upon the Kcsolution or 
 question l)f.'fore the House. We have 
 been dubating tlie Pacific Railway,' and 
 ita relations with Britisli Columbia, for 
 three days and for three nights, and tiie 
 qucMtiou is atill before us. My im- 
 pression is that the speeches wo 
 have had from the other side of tl'e 
 House, anil the arguments employed to 
 induce this House not to STO into Com- 
 niittee, but to adopt a Resolution not to 
 proceed with the Railway in IJiitish 
 Columbia, would carry us — if wo listened 
 to them, if they had weight with us — a 
 great deal further. For my part, if I 
 viewed this (juestion as the hou. member 
 for West Durham (Mr. Blake) views it . 
 if. I believed the country to bo in a con- 
 dition of hopeless poverty, as ho declares 
 it to be ; if I lielieved its financial re- 
 sourci's w .re as limited, as unpi'oductive 
 as he represf>nt s them to he ; if I tliought 
 our hopes of the future would not justify 
 further exjiendii/j re on Capita! Aceoutit, 
 for any purjiosi; whatever in the Noith- 
 West, because tlie compi?tition of the 
 United States for tlip emigrant popu- 
 lations of the Old World will prevent 
 us from selling, or s(>ttling, our waste 
 lancjs in that ])art of the Dominion, 
 instead of asking this House to 
 declare that the further prosecution of 
 the work of buikling the Paciiic Railway 
 should be postpone<l, I would take tlie 
 ground that it ouglit to be aban- 
 donerl. I should say, at least, that 
 we ought not to i)roceed further 
 than the Red River, and allow the .sr-ttle- 
 ment of the countiy beyond that point to 
 provide for itself. The hon. member for 
 West Durliam, and some of his colleagues, 
 on that side of tlie HoTise, have presented 
 to us certain alleged facts — -I prefer to 
 call them statements — .ind they have rea- 
 soned at great length upon tliem ; but, 
 admitting the premises, his conclusion, as 
 I have said, is a rery lame and impotent 
 one. I will ask the indulgence of tha 
 House, while I go back to an earlier 
 chapter in the history of this question, 
 tkan that which the hon. gentleman de- 
 
 tailed to us. I du so for the purpose of 
 sliowing that there are reasons wiiy mem- 
 bers of this House ought not to concur in 
 the doctnne set up, in .some quarters, as to 
 the obligations of Canada towards British 
 Columbia, respecting the Pacific Railway. 
 1 deny that there is any e\ idence to sup- 
 port the st'itenient that we are under u 
 Treaty obligation with British Columbia 
 to expend millions and millions of money, 
 whether we can afford it or not, to build 
 this Railway. In the first place it may 
 be well to glance at the history of British 
 Colurnliia, prior to 18G7. In 1858, gold 
 discoveries were made in that country. 
 Prior to 1806, there were two (Govern- 
 ments in existence, one for the Island of 
 Vancouver, and another for the main 
 land ; but they were not popular or re- 
 presentative Governments. The popula- 
 tion was very snihU, mostly miners «nd 
 tradei-s. It was composed of Americi<un 
 as \vell as (Canadians, and foreigners from 
 various countries, who had gone into 
 that country in search of gold to Ijetter 
 their fortunes. In 186G, a single Gov- 
 ernment was established. It was that of 
 a Crown colony, and was directly under 
 thi- control of the Colonial Secretary ; biii 
 when Canada and the Maritime Provinces 
 had agreed to form a Confederation, and 
 while the Act of Union was under dis- 
 cussion, a number of persons in British 
 Columbia desired to bring about the Union 
 of that Colony with the old Provinces of 
 Canada. An agitation took place, public 
 meetings were held, speeches were made, 
 and Resolutions jjassed, declaring that such 
 a Union was expedient in the highest 
 degree. Canada had hot then sought to 
 intiuonco British Columbia in . vour of 
 the Union, thongh it was no doubt a part 
 of the great scheme of 1864, for uniting 
 all the Provinces of British America 
 under one Government. It was then con- 
 templated that British Columbia would, at 
 some time, become a part of the Con fedemcy. 
 and provision was made that Newfound- 
 la«d, Prince Edward Island and British 
 Coluaibia might como into the Union 
 upon such terms as might be agreed ujjon 
 between Canada and them, subject to the 
 approval «f the Imperial Government. 
 But up to 1868, British Columbia was a 
 
 ^; V 
 
 V Ci 
 
Fc* o^s 
 
 
 Crown colony ; it was a Government 
 controlled and dircctod from the Colonial 
 OHice, and it so coutiuiied until it beoaine 
 a Province of Canada. In 1868, a 
 memorial, based on resolutions passed at 
 public meetings, was sent to Canada. 
 That memorial expressed the strong desire 
 of the peoi)le to join the new Confederacy, 
 and it was in consequence of these popu- 
 lar movements in British Columbia, that 
 action was taken in Canada, an Order 
 in Council passed, and negotiations 
 begun with the Imperial Government. 
 It might be as well to refer to the state- 
 ments made at that time, by the citizens 
 of British Columbia. In the Sessional 
 Papers of 1867-8, we find the Resolutions 
 as they were passed, and the Order-in- 
 Council adopted by the Canadian Gov- 
 ernment thereupon. The following pas- 
 sages from that Order, under date of 
 6th March, 1868, will explain the posi- 
 tion, at that time, of the Canadian Gov- 
 ernment : — 
 
 " The Committee havo had under contidera- 
 tion, a Memorandum, dated Sth March, 1868, 
 fvm the hon. the Minister of Public Works, 
 stating that certain Resolutions, on the subject 
 of Union with Canada, adopted at a public 
 meeting of the inhabitants of Victoria, British 
 Columbia, on the 29tb January last, trans- 
 mitted through the Hon. Samuel L. Tilley, to 
 the Secretary of State for Canada, were on the 
 3rd instant, referred to a Committee of the 
 honourable the Privy Council, and by the 
 Council referred to him, the hon. the Minister 
 of Public Works, for immediate report. That 
 he has read and duly considered the purport of 
 these Resolutions, the circumstances under 
 which they were passed and the action which 
 ought to be taken by the Government of Canada 
 thereupon. 
 
 "That it appears from these ReioIutioBS 
 and the] Memorial of the Committee appointed 
 at the public meeting, which accompanies them, 
 that the Legislative Council of British Colum- 
 bia, on the 18th March, 1867, unanimously 
 adopted a Resolution, requesting His Excel- 
 lency Governor Seymour ' to take measures 
 without delay to secure tke admission of British 
 Columbia into the Canadian Confederacy on fair 
 and equitable Terms.' " 
 
 It appears further : 
 
 ' That neither the people of British Colum- 
 bia, nor the Government of Canada have been 
 apprised of any measures that may have been 
 taken by the Government of British Columbia 
 in pursuance of the Resolution of the Legisla- 
 tive Council." 
 
 Then, after referring to the fact that this 
 action of the people and the Legislative 
 Council took place before the British 
 North America Act came into force, and 
 
 that further action would, therefore, be 
 necessary on the part of British Columbia 
 under the 146th section of that Act, the 
 hon. the Minister of Public Works — 
 which office I then had the honour to 
 hold — made a recommendation which 
 the Orderin-Council recites in these 
 words : 
 
 " The hon. Minister submits, that conaidor- 
 ing the peculiar constitution of tht Legislature 
 and Government of British Columbia, and that 
 notwithstanding the Resolution of the Legisla- 
 tive Council, in March of last year, and th« 
 Resolutions of the public meetings, and the 
 expression of public opinion through the Press 
 of the Colony, before and since the Act of Con- 
 federation, in favour of Union with Canada, 
 no official communication on the subject from 
 British Columbia has reached this Government, 
 he would recommend that Your Excellency 
 communicate to His Grace the Duki of Buck- 
 ingham a copy of tha Memorial and Re&olutions 
 referred to, and request His Grace' to instruct 
 Governor Seymour to take nuch steps as may 
 be deemed proper to move the Legislative Coun- 
 cil of British Columbia to further action in 
 terms of the Imperial Act. He further recom- 
 mends that His Grace be informed that the 
 Government of Canada will be prepared to 
 submit to Parliament a proposal for the ad- 
 mission of British Columbia into the Union, 
 in the expectation that the Lnperial Govern- 
 ment will lose no time in transferring the 
 intervening North- Western Territory to the 
 jurisdiction of the Canadian Government." 
 
 The Privy Council concurred in these 
 recommendations, and transmitted them 
 to the CBlonial Minister. But it may be 
 interesting to the House to hear two or 
 three passages from the memorial of the 
 citizens of Victoria, and certain members 
 of the Legislative Council, on which our 
 Orders-in-Council was based. It informed 
 us that : 
 
 "The people of Cariboo, the next most 
 papulou.i and influential portion of the Colony, 
 held in December a highly enthusiastic meet- 
 ing, and unanimously passed Resolutions in 
 favour of immediately joining the Dominion of 
 Canada." 
 
 It informed us that all the newspapers 
 except one, five in number, supported 
 Confederation. The hostile paper was in 
 favour of annexation to the United 
 States. It informed us that ; 
 
 " The Legislative Council, the only Legis- 
 lative body in the Colony, is made up of a 
 majority consisting of Heads of Departments, 
 Gold Commissioners, Magistrates aud others 
 subject to Government inBuence, and cannot 
 be relied upon to urge Confederation, as it 
 ought to be at th« present juncture," and, 
 therefore, they appealed to Canada to help 
 them. 
 
 890281 
 
Tho MfiiioriiiliMtH said : 
 
 "We feel that without the help and »up- 
 port of tho tiovernmont of the Dominion, 
 the time will be remote when this Colony will 
 bo admitted into the Dominion, but with the 
 aid which we solicit we believe that there 
 is no obstacle to prevent our admission by 
 the Ist of July next." 
 
 And to allay all apprehension as to 
 terms, they specified them as follows : — 
 
 "1. Canada to become liable for the 
 Public Debt of tho Colony, estimated at 
 §1,500,000. 
 
 "2. Canada to provide for Federal officers 
 and services. 
 
 "3. To grant a fixed subsidy and per capita 
 subsidy sufKoient to ensure the support of the 
 Local Government, in addition to the powers 
 ef taxation reserved to Provincial Govern- 
 mentB in the British North America Act. 
 
 " 4. Representation in tho 8eaatc and Com- 
 mons of Canada. 
 
 "5. The construnt'on of a trans-continental 
 waggon road from Lake Superior to the head 
 r>{ navigation on the Lower Fraser, within 
 two years after the time of admission. This is 
 regarded as an essential condition. 
 
 "6. Popular representative institutions, in- 
 suring responsible control over the Govern- 
 ment." 
 
 It will be seen that the British Colum- 
 bians were very reasonable in their de- 
 mands when soliciting our help to escape 
 from an arbitrary and irresponsible (Gov- 
 ernment. They did not even hint at a 
 Pacific Railway then. And who were 
 the influential signers of this memorial ) 
 The first is James Trimble, Mayor of 
 Victoria; A. DeCosmos, member of the 
 Legislative Council ; J. H. Powell, 
 M.D., member for Victoria in the 
 late Assembly for Vancouver Island. 
 The othera I need not mention. 
 Now, that was the initiatory proceeding 
 for the admission of British Columbia into 
 the Union. I think, Sir, that, recalling 
 those circumstances, the statement of the 
 lion, member for West Durham, that 
 Canada applied any coei-cion, or was 
 guilty of any improper solicitation for the 
 purpose of inducing British Columbia to 
 join Canada, is not borne out by the facts. 
 The negotiations went on, and in the 
 meantime, the late Sir George Cartier and 
 myself were deputed to proceed to England 
 for the purpose of arranging with the 
 Hudson's Bay Company and the British 
 Government for the acffuisition of the in- 
 tervening territory. In 18G9, we com- 
 pleted an arrangement by which the great 
 North-West became the property of 
 Canada, at a cost of £300,CC ) sterling. 
 
 Then the udmissiou of British Columbia 
 became a matter of serious consultation 
 and interest with the Imperial autliorities ; 
 and it was again pressed upon tho Secre- 
 tary of State for the Colonies that there 
 was objection and hesitation on the part 
 of tho officials of British Columbia to come 
 into the Union, except upon terms that 
 would prove oucrous to tho Dominion, 
 and he was urged to use his influence and 
 authority — tlie policy of uniting all the 
 Provinces and Colonies in British Am- 
 erica having been affirmed in an Imperial 
 Act — to induce the local authorities of 
 British Columbia to agree to practicable 
 and reasonable Terms of Union with 
 Canada. That eflPort was made by the 
 Colonial Minister, whose despatch to 
 the then Governor of British Col- 
 mnbia, urging a speedy and amicable 
 union with Canada is on record. Mr. 
 Musgrave, who had previously been 
 Governor of Newfoundland, and had taken 
 a very warm interest in the subject of 
 Confederation, was appointed Governor 
 of British Columbia for the purpose of 
 carrying out the wishes of the people as 
 expressed in their memorial. The then 
 Secretary tor the Colonies, Lord Gran- 
 ville, in writing to Governor Musgrave, 
 makes use of sou^e expressions which have 
 an important bearing on the view of tho 
 question I am endeavouring to present : 
 
 "The question," says Lord Granville, " pre- 
 sents itself whether this single Colony ahonld ht 
 excluded from the great body politic which ii 
 thus forming itself. On this question the 
 Colony itself does not appear to be unanimous. 
 But as far as I can judge from the despatches 
 which have reached me, I should conjecture 
 that the prevailing opinion was in favour of 
 Union. 1 have no hesitation in stating that 
 such is a'.so the opinion of Her Majesty's Gov- 
 ernment." 
 
 That definite instruction and command 
 was communicated to the Queen's repre- 
 sentative in British Columbia on tho 14th 
 August, 1869. As to the dependent and 
 subordinate position of the Cplony at that 
 time, His Lordship observed : 
 
 "The Constitutional connection of Her 
 Majesty's Government with the Colony of 
 I3ritish Columbia is as yet closer than 
 with any other part of North America, 
 and they are bound, on an occasion like the 
 present, to give, for the consideration of the 
 community and the guidance of Her Majesty's 
 servants, a more unreserved expression of their 
 wishes and judgment than might be elsewhere 
 fitting. " 
 In consequence of that pressure from the 
 

 Iiiipeml authorities, „,,o,. tl.e ,vl„ot,mt 
 authorities of Bntisli ColuinKiu-f,,,- a.s J 
 have Hl.own, the ,,eo),l,. had ahea.lV ap- 
 pealclto C,"ana,httor help- the ne^W 
 tions for a Union proceodcl. I wilj uow 
 readtho " Terms'' proposed l.y the(/oT 
 ernor in Council of the Oolonv in more 
 detai and m oliicial fonn, ..a^er those 
 mstnctionsund this pressme. I would ' 
 cal Ju. ^«rticular attention of the House 
 to those rerm. as they were presented at 
 Ottawa espeeially the elause ivlatinij to 
 
 ■old'" T^« ''l'!'' •"■ " '•^ t'-'^-'-t'o-'tmeutal 
 load I fa,„i ,t expressed in the olticial 
 and formal propositions of the delegates 
 ■eiit to Ottawa in the«o words • 
 
 .i,f u /"*""'":'' ^i no real Unions can su),- 
 • St b«t«-,,e« tins Colony and Canada without 
 
 acrnss t ho n„cky Monntaina by coach road 
 
 Je rj'f" rthfl' t '"'^'Tr" '!'^'^".^'thin tLroe 
 oimn . f • '^''K"^ ^^""'"' -'•"n«truct .ind 
 open for tra/iio snch c^acli road from some 
 point on the lino of the Main Trunk iroaHf 
 
 «ri;lf V- '.'^'"'■'y '-•■^"imunication at the 
 earliest practicable <latc.An,l that thesurvcva to 
 
 tluZV""^'"^''' '""^ for mich Rail wa5 
 ■ot less than ?l,0()0,000 .hall be txi.cnded Tn 
 fuf ^ T"; /r"!" "■'<< ••'ft.r three yea s tVom 
 
 Jftii ll'^""''\"' '■^'^'"'-'"^ constnictingthe 
 initial sootiORs of such Railway from the 
 
 thf h" "' ^'■'"■'■''' <-<'l'""l'ia to connect wi h 
 the Railway system of ( anada." 
 
 On pregenting those Terms at Ottawa 
 and discHssing them with the Canadian 
 trovermnont, an alteration of this clause 
 was proposed to the British Columbia 
 
 taWn f '"''"'[T"* "f "^^ Dominion un-Jer- 
 
 of Vh«^„ ► ?y^*''''/'''"" *he flal^e of Union 
 Of the coDBtruction of a Railway from VkI 
 
 .^'c htSrL''' '\'^''^y M^LS. a„""from 
 ■uch point as may be selected east of the Rockv 
 Moi.nt«n8 towards the Pacific, to connect the 
 
 That condition or term- in the Act of 
 Union was a voluntary proposal of the 
 ofTSr n ', ^T'^^- The Govemmen 
 riould undertake the construction of a 
 Kailway atthe rate of $1,000,000 a year 
 ^hich If the estimate] of the Chief En! 
 gineer that it would cost $100,000,000 
 b« correct, would require J 00 years | 
 
 n,tea.I ot ten to complete the Pacific 
 Kai way^ My contention is, that, so far 
 as this Parliament is eoneerne.I, wo are 
 |iot bound l.y the Terms of Union respect- 
 "ig tiie IJailway in tlie absolute sonso 
 I or to the extent which some hon. gentle- 
 men even on this side of the House con- 
 tend. Jt was a voluntary proposal of our 
 own ; a nii(l>nn parhdn as lawyers would 
 Bay, because we received no considcu'ation 
 
 11 ■ . ,■''? *'■"'' *''° ^^'''t'^l' Columbia 
 delegates did not object to it. They were 
 very glad to find that the people of Canada 
 'A-ere so anxious to establish rapid transit 
 across the continent, liut that, like any 
 other decision of Parliament, was subject 
 to modification. The condition that the 
 resources of the country would enable the 
 txovornment to " secure the completion ' 
 ot tiie work in ten years was always un- 
 derstood. Nay, more, it was expressly 
 «tii.u lat.d. We promised Bril ish Culu m- 
 bia and we promised everybody, that we 
 would build the Railway if we could. 
 J^ut I arliament did not deprive itself of 
 Its legal, natural, constitutional ri.'ht 
 to modity or repeal any law in ^he 
 Matute-book, or a:,y schemes or un- 
 dertakings wMoh might be found im- 
 practicaSL. British Columbia, boin r 
 '^ Pirt of the Dominion, can have 
 no right to complain, unless it can 
 show that we have the means, or tluat 
 they are within our reach, and that it i^ to 
 the interest of the country to procee.l 
 with the construction of the Railway in 
 their Province. As me'ubers of tliis 
 House, an.l representatives of a i.ortion 
 ot the people of the Dominion, hon 
 gentlemen from British Columbia hive 
 the right to present their case in the 
 best way they can. But to say that the 
 transactions of 1871 are in the nature of 
 a Treaty, that this Dominion consists of 
 separate parts which have .Treaty obli- 
 gations one with another, and that "we are 
 bound at all hazards, and under all cir- 
 cumstances, wliether we have the means 
 or not, to carry out everything that a 
 previous Parliament may have j.roposed 
 m reference to jmblic works in any Prov- 
 ince— tint proposition, Mr. Sjieaker, cannot 
 bomamtained; I, at all events, am not 
 able to accept it. I come now to con- 
 sider the position we are in to-day We 
 have undertaken the construction of this 
 hallway. Wo have yielded to the de- 
 mands of the motnbcrs iroiu British Co- 
 
inubi.1, on Iho grouu.l that uo ..n.Iuitook 
 to perfonu a contract wliidi hapix-n.s to 
 >e ach.inta-eou.s to th.-ni, tbo.igl. it 
 threatens ruin, or great omharrassnu-nt to 
 tlio ok er Provinces. I li.ul that wo are 
 actually engaged in the construction of 
 the Prtc.hc Hallway from the head 
 "t l^ak.^ Superior to the waters of the 
 i acilic. It has been surveyed, diderent 
 imes li.'u-o l,c.;n proposed, and, at last, 
 the leadei-3 of the two great political 
 parties m this country liave concurred in 
 tlie selection of a particular line in 
 iJntish Columbia, and the contracts have 
 Deen given out for the purpose of con- 
 
 — t-aav t'**! I'VOO \Jl. 
 
 Btructmg that initial section. We are 
 now ciilled upon by the hon. member for 
 west Durham and the hon. member for 
 i^ambton, the First Minister of the late 
 <-oyernmeiit, to halt. The gronnds upon 
 which we are urged to adopt that course 
 ■lie, timt the country is in a driiressed 
 condition ; that we luive neither money 
 nor credit, or, if wo liave credit, we 
 ougJit not to u.se it in borrowing the money 
 to proceed with that work ; that tiieie i"s 
 no country to be developed by this par- 
 tjciilar portion of the line in British 
 Columbia; that the country throu<rh 
 which the line is to pass on this side of 
 the mountains, is not what it is repre- 
 sonted to be; that it is, in fact, a poor 
 country, and here, Sir, let me say I was 
 imich surprised and pained last ni-dit, to 
 iiearthehon. member for Lambton lead- 
 ing old volumes by the liour, for the pur- 
 pose of showing that there was a great 
 ^leal of swamp, a great deal of alkaline 
 and sandy country, vast reaches of uncul- 
 tivable land, between Red River and the 
 toot of the Rocky Mountains. Ho told 
 us there were only about 80,000,000 acres 
 ot good land in the whole country, which 
 he seemed to tliink an insignificant 
 amount, but ifhe will look at the area of 
 some Luropean countries, which make a 
 considerable figure in the wo.1,1, he will 
 hnd they have less than 80,000,000 acres 
 ot arable land. Yet they maintain 
 aniiies and fleets, and support very 
 costly Governments. I regard that lion 
 gontieman as more blameablo, more deserv- 
 ing of censure, than any hon. member 
 ot this Hou,se, for decrying the financial 
 and material resources of our country 
 because he was lately at the head of a 
 Ixeiorm Goveinmeut, a Goveriiment that 
 appealed to and was supported by the 
 
 Fople, on the ground that they ronre- 
 
 tha lb '""nT"''"'^ '" P"'^lic affair,,, 
 tliat tJiey would bo careful of the public 
 };••••- which they said their oppE" 
 '""'1 clealt with extravagantly." Hon 
 gontlenien opposite were supported be" 
 •a..so o these pl,.,I,„.s, and h^^ ,,ia they 
 •deem them? WV find that soon after 
 their accession to p,.uer, the public ex- 
 p nd.ture increased beyond all former 
 example. We find that tli.y had a suc- 
 cession of deficits during their eiS 
 existence as a (Government. The pro- 
 vious Government had undertaken to com- 
 plete this public work within ten years 
 1 hat improvident bargain was the great 
 point of objection. ^It was something 
 emble The hon. gentleman, elo-iuen! 
 as we know him to be, especially on the 
 s uinp, pointed out to the astonished 
 electors that the previous Government 
 .r ,"7°^'V'>- «^ confidence, because 
 til. y had undertaken this enormous pr, . 
 ject to construct the Pacific Railway 
 within ten years. Why, he said, all thV 
 money that could be raised by the Im- 
 penal Government would fail to carry 
 out such a work in that time ! It wns of 
 
 ZTIT'^'T"' *' '■ ^^'^ ^°"- gentleman 
 that the "tenyeu., .vas mentioned in 
 ^he,se terms merely ibr the purpose of 
 indicating that the Government of the 
 Uay would proceed earnestly and continti 
 ously with the construction of this work 
 lie persisted in the assertion that time 
 was of the essence of the contract with 
 British Co umbia, though neither the 
 people of that Province nor their repre 
 sentatives had ever so understood it. 
 iliey never contended that it was 
 an essential condition, the non-per- 
 formance of which would void the 
 agi-eement, that the Pacific Railway 
 should l.e completed in that particular 
 period of time. WJiy, Sir, neither the 
 Government nor their engineers knew at 
 that time that it was jiossinle to construct 
 the Railway at all. It was not knov^n 
 as a matter of engineering tliat we could 
 pas^ the canyons of the Fraser or pene- 
 trate the Cascade a onntains and thus 
 reach the waters of the Pacific. I do not 
 tlnnk it has been ma.le quite clear 
 yet, tiiat we can do it without enormous ex 
 penditure. Under these circurnBtanee.s, 
 before there Iiad been a survey, before w« 
 knew the character of the country beyond 
 
FC i^ds 
 
 Lake Suporior, l>oforo wo knew wimt 
 difficulties would ho eiuoiintercd in pus- 
 sing tho Rocky Mountains and tlio Ciis- 
 cnih Ilango, the lion, gt-ntlcinim omlciiv- 
 oured to iHTHUivdi) tho pcopli. that tho 
 |>revious (lovernnuMit hud hound tho 
 Dominion to construct that work within 
 t«n years coiUe que coiitf. Sir, there 
 WHS no such condition. It was 
 never contemplated that that work 
 sliould bo completed within that time, 
 unless an easy lir.e could l>e found, 
 and unless the circumstances and reven- 
 ues of the country would permit it, 
 It was so understood in this House. I 
 was sitting on the Opposition side of the 
 House at the time, and associated with 
 Sir Alexander T. Gait and other indepen- 
 dent members, insisted, in order to 
 make tho point clear, upon a Resolution of 
 Parliament that this work should ho pro- 
 ceeded with, provided it could be done 
 without increasing the then rate of taxa- 
 tion. The right hon. gentleman, then 
 jeader of the Government, being absent 
 in Washington, Sir George E. Cai-tier, who, 
 in his absence led the House, found so 
 manyof hisown sup|iortersconcurring with 
 us, that lie consented to adopt that Resolu- 
 tion, and it was [)a.ssed while the delegates 
 from British Columbia were sitting beside 
 the Speaker's Chair. Now, with these 
 facts in view, what course did the hon. 
 gentleman opposite take when he came 
 into office ? He complained of this ten 
 years' limit, yet he assumed the responsi- 
 bility of constructing the Railway as a 
 public or Government work, and he sent to 
 England and invoked the interference of 
 Lord Carnarvon, then Secretary of State 
 for the Colonies. 
 
 Mr. MACKENZIE : No. 
 Mr. MACDOUGALL : What did you 
 do? 
 
 Mr. MACKENZIE: ] invokedthe as- 
 sistance of no one. 
 
 Mr. MACDOUGALL : Who invoked 
 the interference of Lord Carnarvon ? 
 
 Mr. MACKENZIE : The Bri'Jsh Col 
 umhia people. 
 
 Mr. MACDOUGALL : Then the Bri- 
 tish Columbia people j)roceeded to Eng- 
 land. I happened to be there myself at 
 the time. Mr. Waikem came to London 
 to complain of bad faith on the ))ai-t 
 of theOanadian Governmeut,and thoresult 
 was tha,t Lord Carnarvon was invited to 
 offer his services, and the hon. gentle- 
 
 luon opposite cDhsentod lo accept his ser- 
 vices, and agreed to abide by his arbitra- 
 ment as to the millions which were to he 
 expended yearly by Canada up to 1800. 
 Mr. Walkoni talked over the matter with 
 me, and I endeavoured to persuade him 
 that h(! wo>ild not l)e serving the intijrests 
 of British Ci)lumhia in taking any such 
 ground as he proposed; that Canada would 
 proce(!d, undir any Administration, to 
 open up the great North- West, and then 
 the necessity of crossing tho mountains to 
 a Pacific terminus in British Columbia 
 would be admitted by all parties, and 
 ho would get his Railway as soon as 
 it was possible to obtain it, under 
 any circumstunces ; that to quarrel with 
 Canada, and attempt to enforce a literal 
 fulfilment of these rigid terms, would 
 result in failure. Lord Carnarvon did 
 me the honour to confer, informally, with 
 me upon the matter. I felt it my duty 
 as a Canadian, and as a public man, to 
 warn him against burning his fingers by 
 undertaking to arbitrate between Canada 
 and British Columbia in that matter. 
 But that nobleman, being anxious to re- 
 move all obstacles to the consolidation of 
 British North Amercia, because he was 
 tho Minister under whose authority the 
 scheme of Confederation was planned, 
 undertook the difficult and, as I think, 
 ill advised office of Arbitrator, and the 
 hon. gentleman opposite, the great Re- 
 former, the great constitutionalist, abdi- 
 cated liis functions as a responsible 
 Minister, and placed this Parliament and 
 the people of this country in a false posi- 
 tion, when he left it to a person in no 
 way responsible to ua, to say that we 
 should spend $2,000,000 a year in the 
 construction of a Railway in British 
 
 Columbia. That was a highly unconsti 
 tutional act in my view. It was a de- 
 structive blow aimed at the most essential 
 principle upon which our constitutional 
 system is founded. If the Government 
 of the day can hand over the purse- 
 strings of the nation to any one, 
 .even to tho sovereign herself, to 
 fix the amount and to specify the 
 objects of expenditure, without, in the 
 first place, consulting the representatives 
 of the people in Parliament assembled, it 
 hua ceased to he the (Toverniucnt of a free 
 country, Tho bargain was struck, the 
 reference made, and the award of 
 12,000,000 a year in favour of British 
 
Culunibia was rciulereil. Tin- hou. xun- 
 tlnumii brought dowki tliut |)i'0|ioHitiun 
 after the Arbitrator had j^iven hi.s judg- 
 S,^ ment, and he Hiicoeedwl in obtaining a 
 
 quasi consent from Parliament. I do not 
 know, for I was not a nunnber of this 
 House at tiio tim«>, that it was ever form 
 ally approved, but assent, if any, was 
 gained in such a manner, the casn was 
 conducted ui)an such false promises, that 
 I, for one, was not surprised to tind the 
 vice of its origin prevading it 
 through all its stages. The hon. 
 gentleman lias been charged — I do not 
 say justly charged— with luiviiig himself 
 procured, by some underhand method, the 
 defeat of his scheme in the Senate. Now, 
 we liaye another (iovernment in jK)wer 
 and we have the Railway question still 
 before us. We are called upon to say, by 
 our vote on this Resolution, wliether the 
 work is to proceed in British Columbia 
 or not. I confess, if. I were free from 
 these antecedent facts, which I think are 
 binding to a certain extent upon this 
 Parliament, I would hesitate to proceed. 
 But as a supporter of the (Government 
 in one or two important matters, if not in 
 all, I cannot well see how, in view of 
 what has taken place between the British 
 and Canadian (jrovernments, in view of 
 the money already expended upon surveys 
 and actual construction beyonil Lake 
 Superior, in view of the fn ^ that the hon. 
 gentleman and his colleaj.:? had adopted 
 this very line in Britisa Columbia, I 
 can ask the present tloverument to 
 reverse a policy to which most of its mem- 
 bers have long been committed and refuse 
 to proceed with at least a portion of the 
 work in British Columbia. It is quite true 
 if our financial position were such that wo 
 could not raise money enough to carry on 
 the Goverament, and execute the great 
 Public Works we have in hand, I should 
 say that the Government must be cartied 
 on and the Public Works must stand. 
 The interest on the Public Debt must be 
 paid, the subsidies and charges for Civil 
 Government must bo paid, and many 
 other items of ordinary expenditure must 
 be met, whatever happens, and if 
 I did not see a jiroapect of suffi- 
 cient Revenue in the future, 1 
 would not hesitate a momei.t to say to 
 hon. gentlemen on the Treasury Benches, 
 "you must postpone this work." But is 
 our condition desperate t Is it true, as 
 
 was stat<>d by tlie lion, gentleman wliO 
 last addressed the House, that we cannot 
 proceed with this work ? Is it true that 
 the amount required is so great that 
 neitlier the Revenues nor the credit of 
 this country are able to overtake it] I do 
 nut think so. If we look at the Rail- 
 way Statistics of Canada we find that 
 some H,0()0 miles of i-ailway have been 
 constructed in Canada within a few years, 
 costing .S273.S2G,O0O. (H this sum th« 
 (Jeneral aud Ixtcal (Jovcirnments have 
 contributed about $80,000,000. But 
 more tlian two-thirdti of the entire amount 
 liivs been furnished by private capitalists, 
 and the purchasers of bonds sold in the 
 market. I am not aware that the coun- 
 try has felt any severe pressure on ac- 
 count of the investment of this immense 
 amount of capital in our railways, or that 
 we have sufiered from over-construction of 
 railways beyond the needs of the country. 
 I think if we look at the question in that 
 light the dangers and difficulties that have 
 been conjured up on the other side of the 
 House will disappear. I believe railway 
 men can be found with the caj)ital at 
 their backs to take up this Railway from 
 Thunder Bay to its Pacific terminus at 
 Yale, and for a subsidy of 40,000,000 or 
 50,000,000 acres of land as originally pro- 
 j)08ed, comjjlete the sections that have not 
 yet been contracted for. I believe there 
 is no difficulty in finding a solvent com- 
 pany who would undertake to complete 
 the Pacific Railway on those terms, and 
 agree to keep it in repair and work it. 
 The moment capitalists are convinced 
 that this great Empire of ours in the 
 West has within it even 80,000,000 
 acres of arable land, the moment they are 
 satisfied that the immigration which has 
 set in is likely to continue, that its 
 climatic difficulties have been exaggerated, 
 that wheat can be produced there in 
 enormous quantities, and of superior 
 quality to any grown in other parts of 
 this continent, there will be no difficulty 
 in finding a company willing to under- 
 take the construction, at their own risk, 
 of the balance of this great highway. I am 
 told upon reliable information that at 
 Minneapolis the millers will give ten 
 cents a bushel more for wheat grown be- 
 yond the International Boundary thaii 
 for wheat grown a few degrees south of 
 it. For ages those vast and fertile plains 
 have been covered with millions of 
 
1 
 
 Ijuflulo, HiiliNistiiiK I'l"'" t'x' iiatiinil her- 
 I'ligo of til.' Hoil, and w.' .ill know tliut 
 doiiiOHtic oiittlc (u-o doHfly ivllic.l ((. tlio 
 luifliilo. Ho w(! have thciv'a coiintiy that 
 fftn |.n)(Itio(! iioth meat and lnvafl.itullfi in 
 iiiHindaiici', and Hii,H fact alone, with con- 
 «litioii8 for tho inconiMij,' .settler as favour. 
 able aH those oirenrd to him in the United 
 Htates. will, now that tho tide of nettle- 
 nieiit is steadily tlowiny westward, guar- 
 antee ample trallic for at least 
 one trunk line of eonmuinication. 
 Tho fact is that the population j,'oini,' int.i 
 the country and the products coming out 
 of it will, from tho day it is openi-d, pay 
 the ruiuiing expenses and the interest on 
 tho capital.) I therefore liave no appre- 
 hension ou the score of ultimate indem- 
 nity, and while I fe<-l coniident that our 
 position and prospects are such as to 
 warrant the (Jovernncnt injjoiny on with 
 the work, I should like to be sure that 
 no more expenditure will be made than is 
 absolutely necessary until we are a litth; 
 farther advanced. Hon. gentlemen oi)po- 
 site have stated that tho TaritI is the 
 great difficulty, and that its operation 
 will tend to jirevent the prosecution of tho 
 work. On that point 1 will just say, that 
 in my opinion that tiuestion was most 
 fully discu.ssed and considered by the 
 electors of this country at the last elec- 
 tion, and with what result? 40,000 
 Liberals voted in favour of tho candidates 
 supporting the present Promier. Why t 
 Not because of his antecedents as a party 
 politician, or tho j)riuciples he was suij- 
 posed to hold, but l)ecau.se they had conti- 
 dence in his statesmanship and patri- 
 otism and liis i'ltontion to carry out iiis 
 pledge to protect the industries of the 
 country. Well, Sir, tho pciople haviij.^ 
 demanded that the indu.stries of this coiu' 
 try should be protected by a rearrangement 
 of the Tariff, I venture to suggest that 
 It is no compliment to our institutions, no 
 compliment to the intelligence of the 
 people of this Dominion, to tell them, 
 before the policy they resolved upon has 
 had a fair trial, " You made a mistake in 
 demanding that policy." On the contrary, 
 I think the great mistake the hon. mem- 
 ber for West Durham makes, as a politi- 
 cian, is this,— he is setting himself up 
 against the declared opinion, the settled 
 verdict 'of the people. He, a lawyer, for 
 many yea-s buried in his briefs, sets him- 
 self up afc n expert in finance and trade, 
 
 Piiliey 
 pi'iipid, 
 
 III opposition to the opinions of th.- com- 
 mercial m.-n, the m.tnufaeturers and tli« 
 
 in'.Ht ...vperieiurd pul.Iio n of the oun- 
 
 ti-y. and eonteiiius Hie judirini^nt of tho 
 ("•opl.-at Im'g" in ealiin- for the National 
 •Ic, a l-ilM'ral, a man of tho 
 con.ps here and declare,, that the 
 '.ovenmirnt is d.'.servini; of c,.„Hure for 
 cirrying out the well.unde,,st„od wi..,h,.s 
 ofthepeopl.: Sir, it is a mi.stake to ,Io 
 Ins. IheXat.onal Policy must have a 
 fair trial. Jt has already proved a sue- 
 c-e.s.s, h„a,K.,a||y, inasinueli as it has given 
 us, instead of a deficit of .Sl>,0(I() OlMI— 
 the normal condition und.'i' the 
 lion, genth-man and his friends - 
 a def.nt of only half a million. 
 It IS the duty of tho (iovernment to 
 imiintam and carry out this jiolicy It U 
 also Its duty to e.verci.so ecouomv in the 
 administration of j.ublic alliiir.s.' I was 
 afr.ii.l juflt before the opening of the 
 Hoii.se, that the lion, the Minist.rr of Kiil- 
 w.iys would attempfto carry out his idea 
 o l>u.lding the Jlailway on the north 
 Sioro of Lake Superior, but I am glad to 
 nid tlut the hon. gontlemans collT.a-nnM 
 hayen.duced him to al>andon that^.trt 
 ofthelm„ for the present. 1 am also 
 gladtohnd th.itit has been decided to 
 proceed cautiously with Uio work i„ 
 13riti.sh Columbia. Under all tliese cir 
 cun.stances, I shall oppose the Resolution 
 of the hon. member for West Durham 
 If the mover of the Rt.solutlon were 
 ogical, he would .lemand the abandon- 
 ment of the work in Uritish Cr.lumlia. 
 Instead of douig that, he only asks 
 for de.-.y and thereby atlir.ns that th. 
 road shall be built at so.ne future time' 
 But probably the lle.sulution was framed 
 m tins way, to denounce the hon -i-nUe 
 mans former leader, an.l to conrra.lict 
 the assertion of he organ of his party, that 
 the Railway should be ,,ushed on as 
 rapidly a.s pos,sible. But tho motion is 
 also a declaration of want of confidence in 
 tLe Government. In view of uU that has 
 
 been said ,n favour of the Resolution, a« 
 respects its language and form-which 
 has been htUe-and as re.spccts ics ..oliti- 
 cal consequences, if adopted,which. thou-di 
 not expressed, we can infer. I believe no 
 independent supporter of the Oovernment 
 can possibly vote for it. I, at all events 
 will not assist to turn out the present Gov' 
 ernmeiit in order to turn in the Govern 
 mont of the hon. member for Lambton