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This item is filmed at the reduction ratio checked below/ Ce document est filmd au taux de reduction indiqud ci-dessous. 10X 14X 18X 22X 26X 30X y 12X 16X 20X 24X 28X 32X Th« copy filmtd hare has b««n raproducad thanks to tha ganarosity of: Seminary of Quebec Library L'sxamplaira filmA f ut raproduit grica k la g^ntrositi da: S^minaire de Quebec Bibliothique Tha imagas appaaring hara ara tha bast quality possibia considaring tha condition and iagibility of tha original copy and in keaplng with tha filming contract spacifications. Laa imagaa suh/antaa ont 4ti raproduitas avac la plus grand soin, compta tanu da la condition at da la nattat* da I'axamplalra film*, at •n conformiti avac laa conditiona du contrat da filmaga. Original copias in printad papar covara ara fiimad baginning with tha front covar and anding on tha last paga with a printad or illuatratad impraa- sion, or tha back covar whan appropriata. 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Mapa. platas, charts, stc., may ba fiimad at diffarant raduction ratioa. Thoaa too larga to ba antiraly inciudad in ona axposura ara fiimad baginning in tha uppar laft hand cornar, laft to right and top to bottom, aa many framaa aa raquirad. Tha following diagrama illustrata tha mathod: Laa cartaa, planchaa, tablaaux, ate, pauvant Atra filmte i das taux da rMuction diffArants. Lorsqua la documant ast trop grand pour Atra raproduit an un saul clichA, il ast filmA A partir da I'angia sup4riaur gaucha, da gaucha A droita, at da haut an baa, an pranant la nombra d'imagaa nteaasaira. Las diagrammas suivants iliustrant la mAthoda. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 I I BE The art rec Farlian having Earl c Membi ^?v •n 4^ ;>'"M. . / T^l THE HISTORY OF THE BSSSXON OF THE PROVINCIAL PARUAMfiNT OF M LOWER CANADA FOR 1828-29. J. HE Session of the Provind&l Parliament, of which the proc«edlDgs art recorded in this volume, was the second Session of the thirteenth Parliament of the Province of Lower Canada. The twelfth Parliament having been dissolved by His Excellency the Govemor-in-Chief, the Earl op Dalhousie, the present was called in 1827 and the following Members were returned for the House of Assembly, . iz. J. B. Hertel de Rouville, liOuis Bourdagm, J. Bte. Proulx, Joseph Robitaille, Joseph L. Borgia, J. Bte. Fortin, J. C. Letourneau, Joseph Samaon, Louis Lagueuz, O. Turgeon, Andr6 Papineau, Robert Christie, F. X. Larue, Jobq Cannon, for the County ofBBOfORD ; I for the County of BucKiNOBAMSHiEa) I for the Conniy of Cornwallib ; for the County of Devon : for the County of Dorchester ; ^ for the Conuty of Effinqram ; for the County of Gaspe' ; > for the County of Hampbrirb Biblioth^que, Le Seminaire de Qu6bec, 3, rue de rUniverRi[e, r>,,xi '■f, v.-; Members of the Assembly. > for the Coanty of Hertford ; > for the County of Huntinodoit ; I for the County of Kent; V for the County of Leinster j > for the County of Montreal ( > for the County of Northvmbbrland; for the County of Orleans ; > for the County of Quebec $ I for the County of Richelieu ; > for the County of St. Madrice { t for the County of Surrey ; > for the County of Warwick ; t for the County of York ; > for the City of Montreal, East Ward ; J for the City of Montreal, West Ward ; f for the City of Quebec, Upper Town ; i for the City of Quebec, Lower Town ; i for the Borough of Three Rivers; for the Borough of Williah Henry. It is necessary for understanding the circumstances attending the first meeting of this session to state, that the Parliament having met, agreeably to proclamation, in November 1827} the House of Assembly proceeded, as customary, to the choice of a Speaker, which fell upon Mr. L. J. Fapineau, but the Earl of Dalhousie, not thinking fit to approve of their choice, and the House persisting in it, the Parliament was prorogued, without transacting any business, and continued to be prorogued, from time to time, until the 21st of November, 1828, when they met again for the despatch of business, under the proclamation of the Administrator of the Government, Sir James Kempt. Franfois Blanchet, N. Boissonnault, Austin Cuvillier, J. M. Raymond, Denis B. Vigor, F. A. Quesnel, Laurent Lerouz, Julien Poirier, Joseph Perraulti Joseph Valols, M. P. Sales de la Terriere, E. C. Lagueux. Francois Quirouet, JohnMeilson, Michel Clouet, Jean Dessaulles, lloch De St. Ours, Pierre Bureau, Charles Caron, Pierre Amiot, L. J. Papineau,* Jacques Deligny, Alexis Mousseau, Jacques Labrie, J. B. Lefebvre, Hugues Heney, James Leslie, L. J. Papineau,* Robert Nelson, Andrew Stuart, J. R. Vallieres de St. R^al, Jean Belanger.f Thomas A. Young, Charles R. Ogden, P. B. DumouUn, Wolfred Nelson, HaviOj add that of the sei The The Sir, The The The The The The The The The The The The * Mr. Papineau having been elected for two places, subsequently made his election to serve for the West Ward of the City of Montreal , and F. X. Mailkot, was elected in his stead for Surrey. t Mr. Belamger having (tied in the interim, Thomas Lee was elected in his itead for the City of Quebec, Lower Town. The Li the Hon. two, His down in s the black Assembly, bar of the Gentlemen « lam see fit to Parliamen approved, proceeded choice has Mr. Pa May it pie " In Ob has procee * Absent + Deceai Members of the Council S Hajing given a list of the House of Assembly, it may be proper to add that the Legislative Council was composed at the commencement of the session of The Hon. Jonathan Sewbll, Chief Justice of Lower Canada, Speaker, The Hon. uid Right Rev. C. J. Stbwaht, Lord Biihop of Quebec. Sir John Johnston, Bart. The Hon. Charles De St. Ours The Hon. John Richardson, TheHon.H.W. Ryland, The Hon. Charles Wm. Grant, l^e Hon. James Irvine, The Hon. Willm. Burns, The Hon. Rod. Mackenzie, The Hon. Louis Gugj, The Hon. James Kerr, The Hon. W. B. Felton, The Hon. John Forsvth,* The Honj J. T. Tascbereau. Sir George Pownall,* The Hon. John Hale, The Hon. John Caldwell, The Hon. James Cuthbert, The Hon. Pre. Dom. De Bartzcb, The Hon. M. H. Peiceval, The Hon. Thomas Coffin, The Hon. L. R. Chaus. DeLery, The Hon. Charles De Salabery.f The Hon. Edward Bowen, The Hon. Matthew Bell, The Hon. Tousaaint Pothier, m. , ^ Fhidav, 21st Nov. 1828. Ihe Legislative Council being met, the Lord Bishop of Quebec and the Hon. J. T. laschereau, were sworn in as Members, and a little after two, His Excellency, Sir James Kempt, the Administrator, having come down in state, and being seated on the throne, the gentleman usher of the black rod was sent to command the attendance of the House of Assembly. The Members of the House of Assembly having come to the bar of the Legislative Council, were addressed by the Speaker as follows : Gentlemen of the Assemhly^ « "./^'^"^/o^n'anded by His Excellency to inform you that he does not see fit to declare the causes for which he has summoned this Provincial Parliament, until there be a Speaker of the Assembly, duly elected and approved. And I am further commanded to enquire whether vou have Eeta's fallen" "° "' ' ^^''^ ^ ""'' '' *°" ^"^^' "P°° ^^^^^ ><>«' Mr. Papinbau then addressed His Excellency in the following terms j May it please your Excellency, ha!*nrL!^f if "/^® *? ^i^ Majesty's commands, the House of Assembly j;fg_Proc eeded to the election of a Speaker, and I am the person upon • Absent from the Province, "" " — ""^ + Deceased during the Session. ft ftl 6 Administrator's Speech, whom their choice has fallen. I respectfully pray that it may please your Excellency to give your approbation to their choice." The Speaker of the Legislative Council, then said : Mr. Papineauf^'^ I am commanded by His Excellency to acquaint you that he approves the choice which the Assembly has made of you to be their. Speaker, and, relying upon your loyalty, talents and discretion, he doth allow and confirm your election." Mr. Papineav then thanked His Excellency for the honour which had been conferred upon him, and respectfully prayed that any faults which might be committed by him in the capacity of Speaker, might be laid to his individual charge and not to that of the House over which he pre- sided—that freedom of speech, and the other privileges of the House, might be conceded to them— that access might be had at all times to his person, and a favourable construction might be put on all their actions. These having been granted by His Excellency in the usual form. His Excellency was pleased to open the Session with the following Speech : Gentlemen of the Legislative Council, Gentlemen of the House of Assembly, His Mjyesty having been most graciously pleased to confide to me the Government of this important Colony, it affords me great satisfaction to meet you in Provincial Parliament. . > , -i i Placed in a situation of so much importance, at a period of peculiar difficulty, I can not but feel that very arduous duties are imposed upon me ; duties indeed, which I should despair of being able to discharge, to the satisfaction of His Majesty, and his faithful and loyal subjects the inhabitants of this Province, if I did not look forward, with a sanguine hope, to the enjoyment of your confidence, and cordial co-operation in my Administration of the Government. Without a good understanding between the different Branches of the Legislature, the public afifairs of the Colony can not prosper j the evils which are now experienced, can not be effectually cured, the prosperity and welfare of His Majesty's Canadian subjects can not be promoted ; and you may therefore believe that no exertions will be spared on my part, to promote conciliation, l)y measures in which the undoubted pre- rogatives of the Crown, and your constitutional privileges, will be equally respected, His Majesty's Government has, however, relieved me from the re- sponsability attendant upon any measures to be adopted for the adjustment of the financial difficulties that have unfortunately occurred ; and 1 shall Administrator's Speech. if take an early opportunity of conveying to you by Message, a communi- cation from His Majesty, ivhicti I have been especially commanded to make to you upon the subject of the appropriation of the Provincial Revenue. It will be my duty to lay at the same time before you, the views of His Majesty's Government upon other topics connected with the Government of this Province, to which t*ae attention of the Ministers of the Crown has been called ; you will see in them proofs of the earnest desire of His Ma- jesty's Government, to provide, as far as may be practicable, an eifectual remedy for any case of real grievance j and you may rely on my affording you every assistance towards th^: elucidation of any questions which may arise for discussion in the course of your proceedings. Gentlemen of the House of Assemblyy I shall direct the Accounts of the Provincial Revenue, and Expenditure for the last two years, to be laid before you, as soon as possible, with every explanation respecting them, which it is in ray power to afford you. Gentlemen of the Legislative Council^ Gentlemen of the House of Assembly, Relying on your zeal and diligence in the discharge of your Legislative duties, I feel persuaded that you will give your immediate attention to the renewal of such useful Acts as may have recently expired ; and, indeed, to all matters of public interest that may appear to be of pressing necessity and importance. Possessing, as yet, but an imperfect knowledge of the great interests of the Province, and the \ -vnts of its inhabitants, I refrain, at the pre- sent time, from recommending to you measures of public improvement, which it will be my duty to bring under your consideration at a future day. In all countries, however, good roads and other internal commu- nications; — a general system of Education, established upon sound principles;— and a well-organized, efficient Militia Force, are found to be so conducive to the prosperity, the happiness, and the security of their inhabitants, that I may be permitted to mention them, at present, as objects of prominent utility. But an oblivion of all past jealousies and dissensions is the first great step towards improvement of any kind 3 and, when that is happily accom- plished, and the undivided attention of the Executive. Government, and the Legislature, shall be given to the advancement of the general in- terests of the Province, in a spirit of cordial co-operation, there is no reason to doubt that Lower Canada will rapidly advance in prosperity ; aad emulate, ere long, the most opulent and flourishing portions of the ^orth American continent. 8 Proceedings in the Route, HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Fbiday Aftbrhoom. Mr. Papineau reported the approval of the choice of him as Sfbakbr by His Excellency. Mr. Nbilson moved, for leave to bring in a Bill to vacate the seats of Members of Assembly in certain cases therein provided. This Bill had already been before former Houses, and in 1827, had passed both Branches of the Legislature, but did not then receive the Royal Assent. The motion being granted, the Bill was read the first time. The Bill is intended to vacate the seats of all members accepting of office, as is the ease in England. Mr. Papineau then reported His Excellency's Speech to both Bnmcbes of the Legislature. Mr. Boubdages moved that the Speech of Kis Excellency be referred to a Committee of the whole House, instead of a Special Committee, as had been usually the case in former Parliameuts. Though an innovation upon the former practice of the House, he deemed it essential that every member of the House should have an opportunity to express his opinion, on the most important Document which proceeded from the Representa- tive of the King during the Session.— In this he was seconded by Mr L Lagueux, and supported by Messrs. Neilson, Bobgia and Valliebes" The latter gentleman argued that, though an innovation upon usual custom, he deemed it an improvement. Instead of having the address prepared before the opinion of the House thereon was taken, and there- fore subject to alteration, the method proposed by Mr. Bocbdao.*, would enable the House, by resolutions which it would pass, to inform the Committee of the substance of which the address should be composed. The House would thereby afiford the basis of materials, which it would be the duty of the Committee to put into shape. Mr. Ogden opposed it. first, as an innovation upon the usual practice adopted in England from time immemorial, and as contrary to the forms hitherto observed in that House; and secondly, as tending to make the address to His Excellency the patchwork production of the House, instead of the well diffested composition of a select Committee, upon the presentation of whose re- port an opportunity would be aflForded to every member to express him- self, inl he way contemplated by Mr. Bourdages. He would not how- ever divide the House, and the motion was granted. After Mr Boubdages had moved for the usual Committees of grievan- ces, privileges, commerce and agriculture, good correspondence with Proceedingt in the Home. f the Legislative Council/ and tor other pnrpo8««, and for a writ of elec- Esquire, deceased, the House adjourned. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The BisHor of Qdbbec, and the Hon. their scats in the Legislative Council. JoBN T. Taschibeav, took HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Satubdav, Nov, 22, Several petitions were presented from persons praying to be appointed to the vacant place of Assistant Clerk of the House. PP">""a • ^'"' ??u"'' ^^^\ for leave to bring in a Bill to extend the trial bv jury, which was read a first time and ordered to be read a second time on Friday next. Mr. Valubbbs moved, that, on Tuesday next, the House resolve itself into a Comnaittee of the whole, for the purpose of considering, if it be not expedient to amend and explain the Ordinance 25 Geo III c. 2 as ferasit relates to Imprisonment for Debt. In giving the above notice, the Hon. member commented on the unjust and hard dispositions of the existing law. *^ The House then proceeded in Committee of the whole, to the order of the day upon His Excellency's Speech to both Houses. Mr. Dk St. Odbs in the chair, Mr. Boubdaoes stated to the House that the method pro- posed by him was not only just, but appeared to him perfectly reasonable as It would afford to all the members of the House an opportuXof ex! forlKJi""" '""S"?*^' and of furnishing the grounds or foundation for the Address. He hen moved that the Chairman do leave the chair report progress and ask for leave to sit again, which was fixed for Mon' day.-— 1 he House then a^ourned to Monday. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The address to His Excellency the Administrator, was agreed to. which being merely an echo of his Speech, and containing promises of cordial co-operation, does not require to be detailed. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Mondat, Nov. 24. inHUnn^^' IZ^'V' "^^ appointed Clerk of the House, during the indisposition of Mr. Iasosay, and Mr. Jkan Boutdillikb, ^rmanently, as Clerk Assistant in the place of P. E. Dbsbarats, Esquiri, deceased ^ 10 Proceedingt in the Houie, The House, in CommiUee of the whole on HU Excetlency's apwch, Mr. Db St. Ours in the chair : — ^ Mr. BouBDAOKs stated that after so conciliatory a speech from the head of the Government, it was the duty of the House to reply in the most gracious manner.— After being sent to their homes as they were last year, they had returned to their duties as firm and honourable men, and friends to order and good government. The arbitrary conduct of the Executive had led to an exposition of the grievances of the Province in England, and the report of the Committee to whom they were referred, was the first step towards alleviating the accumulated evils under which the Province laboured. The beginning of the new administration was apparently conciliating j the choice of the House had been agreed to, and as a second step to the peace and tranquility of the Province, a most liberal and gracious speech had been delivered from the throne. In that speech, the House must feel gratified to find that His Excellency is in possession of instructions for obviating their principal difficulties. In their address, it will be the duty of the House, to point out the serious complaints of the people of this Province, and patiently await the renaedy. He did not wish to allude to the administration that had ceased to exist — it was enough to sav that in every quarter of the Province it had excited indignation and disgust. With this brief explanation he would read the draft of an address which he had prepared, for the purpose of acceleration of business, and vyould afterwards bring forward in the shape of resolu- tions, the respective paragraphs for the purpose of affording to Hono- rable members ah opportunity of expressing themselves, from whom he expected much. Mr. Neilson wished to see the resolutions in the English language as well as in French. He would not engage himself to support any Admi- nistration, but wished to be free in his opinions. According to the rules of the House there ought to have been a translation of the resolutions. Mr. BouBDAGES stated that the translator had not been enabled to get through with them, but he did not think that ought to prevent the House making some progress. The Solicitor General said that this was one of the evils which he had predicted would arise from a deviation from established rules. On Saturday the Hon, Member (Bourdages) was not ready to bring forward his resolutions, and now another delay was likely to ensue. It might appear indecorous on the part of the House, delaying so long to answer the speech. When the usual practice of referring the speech to a special Committee was adhered to, every Member of the House had a right to enter the Committee Room and know what was going on, and be aware of the nature of the address, but in the present instance, a gentleman in his own lodgings prepares a secret address, and wishes the House, with- out reflection, to adopt it. Mf.P «othe of I lations n ration mi Dr. B address, should b( carried. Oapn matter tli( be aiford« was then Mr.Fi In the 3d as far as r The He the thi On the 86me of til miSe Oh th the Hoost the MefitA affbiitst th( tR6 Honie Mr. Bttib ttdn, and i^efe thea Oft Mr. mtftteddftl tfom iti ad of the add alttttfed to Froieedtngi in the House. 11 Mr, PiPiNRAu dtfenttd thai the House ihould procerd tt least upon JoiAe of the resolutiona in order to shew some diligence. Of those re»tt- lutions which might not be deeitied an echo of the speech, the conside- ration might be delayed till to-morrow. pn Bt^arghct was of opinion that, as there were, in the proposed address, some extraneous matters, which deserred conilderatlon, delay should be afforded. The first, second and third resolutions were theb carried. On proposing the fdnrth reroldtlon, Mr. Stuabt stated that there beinir matter therein foreign to the contents of the speech, he trusted delay might be afforded to form an opinion. An adjournment till the next day at 11 was then agreed on. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Mr. Fkltoi*, presented a bill for rcTlfing and continuing an act passed in the 3d year of His Majesty's reign, relative to hlgh#ays and brldiei. as far as reppfects the Townships. * ' HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, Not. 25. The House in Committee of the whole on the address. The three first resolutions were agreed to. On the fourth resolution being read, Mr. NeilSon siAA he did not like 86me of the words made^ use of in the resolution. They seemed to pro- mise oft the part of the House to support the Administration, but he wished the House to retain the liberty of expressing at all times their opinion on the merilft of every Administration. These words might be interpreted *P !?* **' *"° *** considered that the engagements therein made by m House are too great to meet with general approbation. By consent Mr. BotmnAfiES ametided the resolution to meet Mr. Neilson's objec- tion, and the /esoltitioh was carried. The fifth and sixth resolutions vefB then ewried without Jrtiy discussion. .-?* *I'* ?»«****>*» proposing the 7th risolntloo, i^hicfi related to the frf *"! frtfe/aw*** *f th« Protince, referted to the report of the Com- jWeeof the Ubm of OomttiOM, and the advantages which would result ffotj iti adO]>tlon in this Aotttttry. Mt OontK begged to Mk to whit part ;» i®^"^**" '* ^^ hrtendjJd lis &n ilhsWer— was it to that paw which aWaded to ftii mirm of tfli ptM diss«sSions ? When n«w matter It ift. D 3r n Proceediv.gs in the House. I *> troduced into at. address, the movi^r ought to be prepared with reasons for such a procedure. How could ths Douse allude to or notice the report of a Committee, Mhich was not before it? lie deemed the matter irrelevant. Mr. BoTjRDAGES intimated that it contained nothing but truth, and the Tiews of the people, and he could not help it if it did not meet with the sanction of the honourable gentleman. Mr. A. Stuart thought that the hon. mover, with the confidence he had of ati ovt.»vhelmiiig majority, migh; so far condescend as to assign some reason for the introduction of this c ttraneous matter. Mr. QuESNEi, did not see the necessity of entering into reasons when no objections had been taken the resolution as otTered. Mr. Ogden said, that if it had not been a new practice, the remark of Mr. QoESNEL might be correct, but when an immense quantity of foreign and extraneous matter was introduced, contrary to precedent, he thought it Jue to *\e House to explain motives. The substance of the motion might be ti:'e, but fhat did not overturn his objections, for he could pro- duce a string of truisms eq-ially irrelevant. The objection he made was hiliminef he deemed the resolution irrelevant, and he called on the hon. mover to prove its relevancy. Mr. A. Stuart wag not a tittle surprised to find that the hon. mover, sensibk as he must be of the majority by which the resolution would be carried, would not condesccrd to s;.« Committie Z reresentat^in. ? **'",,^'?°'« .Pf«P'^. «".d ^h «»'ould not the people's representatives declare their opinion of its *onttnts. ^^4 « }4 Proceedings in the House. hiii IVJr Stuart, in explanation, pegged leave to remarlc, that his comments on the resolution were not intended to be offensite ; they applied not to their author, but to the resolution itself, as a public document before the House. As to its fervour, that was the very subject of which be com- plained, for a plain, formal, complimentary, address, was not a place to introduce passion. It is true what one feels, one can not help espressing, and if abuses did exist in the Government he (Mr. S.) must feel them as much as any other, nor would he allow his hon. colleague to think that he was not as quick in his perception as him, but in an address it was in- decorous to rip up old dissensions. In conclusion he begged to remind the House that those who wrote fervidly were apt to wrltefoolishly, and recommended to the members present to get rid of every thing like passion, in a deliberative body, and to listen to the quiet voice of re»^8on. Mr. Ogdgn stated that nothing yet had been offered to support the resolution either in form or in substance. It was wrong to have refer- ence to a Comoiittee whose report was not before them. A Special Com- mittee might be imposed upon and deceived by false evidence, false ad- dresses, false resolutions, sent from this country by intrigue, on the part of individuals, and by an exposition of false grievances. In that report, however, he saw that some real grievances under which the ProviqcQ laboured were noticed, and that we might look forward to a correction of real abuses. He there saw the refusal of that House to appropriate the monies of the Province in the method required by the JBxecutive, distinctly condemned— he saw the conduct of the Executive in relation tQ the duties of the 14 Geo. III. distinctly justified— and a condemnation of the conduct of that House, in relation to other matters distinctly re* corded, but he would not enter into i(s discussion till regularly before them. That the Committee had positively been led into error, be wa» perfectly aware, and he pitied the credulity of the member who could believe such sentiments. The House seemed to have little confidence iu an usual Special Committee for the address, because they vere afraid it juight be prejudiced, and a similar want of confidence might be extended to the Canada Committee. Mr. Vallieres bad argued like a lawyer Ijut had not made out his case. As to the preceding clause, he had not made objections, and he had allowed the words «« arbitrary acts" tp paSS, because he did not believe avy such had taken place. Mr. VALtiERES stated that the House of Commons being strangers to the wants of Canada, required evidence to make them aware of their grievances, but in this Provinr they had them by heart; they were ocular witnesses of their sufferings, and felt the burden on their shoulders. The House did not require the Report to establish the existence of their grievances, but even if it did, it was before the country. The Official Gazette, which occasionally publishes laws to which they must yield PrQcee4ins^ in the House. u obedience, has also ^if ^n it tq the pvblip. The vri9h of the Hq«9(! was to tell Hi9 E^cellenc^ it^% the Keport is excellent, 9n(i| lh>9 AT^rmer/^ when coupled with thf evidence aljreifidy before the Uo\/i^ of Cotpmoasj he had no doubt woiild be sanctioned fit home. Op a divwoQ of the House the resolution was carried by a msjority of 9% to 3. (Ogdei|| Stuart And Christie.) On the eighth Resolution being proposed, Mr. Stuart stated his reason for voting against it was that it was in direct contradiction to His Excellen- cy's recommedation to forget past dissensions. As to the statement that there was no meeting of the Legislature last year from arbitrary and illegal acts he denied it) A9 the refusal of their sp^^V^r conid mt \iP deeiqed opf • Mr. Ogoen agreed with Mr. Stuart^ and thought that no allasfoq ought to be m^de to last year's proceedings, if the answer was to bo con- ceived in the same spirit as the speech was given. Qn a division, tho same majority carried the motion. The ninth resolation was carried without diseossion. The Q)mmitteo then reported the address to the House, who conoor- ed in it, with some few verbal corrections, and Messrs. Cut illier, Nfilsop, Bourdages, and Valiieres, were appointed to wait on Sjr James Kempt to know when he would receive the whole House with the address. The address, as conourred in, was as follows : We^ His Majesty's dutiful and loyal subject!} the Awmbly of tlM Pro- Tince of Lower CauAda in Provincial PArliAment a^sentblfd} havbly thAnfc your ISypelleocy for the Speech which yo« hftTO b^en ploAied to *Mf^9 from the Throne to both Houses of the l^egislatiir^ At th9 openipg of tho pr^aeot Session of the Provincial ParliAiaent* Your Excellency's presence among us, in the elevated chArActer of the Representative of a beloved Sovereign, gives us high satisfAptipiir We acknowledge with pleasure that, in confiding to your Excellency the gOTerqmeat of this important Colopy, Hi» ])dajesty Has givep a fresn proof of his pateroAl solicitude a,nd of his Royal beoeTOleniiO towArdf hil clutiful CanAdiAP subjects. — And, ah in plAcipgyop in afituAtion of mch high importAOce At 9 time of peculiar difficulty, Hi§ Majesty l>ai in 4 striking mapper sigpalii^ed the high copQdePQe which he rPpP4e4 iP your Excellency, so will wo second tho wishes of our gr^ciopi Sovereigp by a cordlAl And conQdjp^ co'-operAtion with yopr ^KcieUency ip your Adn>ipi«^ tration of the governm«Ptt Hpweyer Ardpops may be the dutieu imposed upon youj we pato no doubt whatever that yoor Excellency will discharge them to the satUfActiop of I|i9 Majesty apd hi^ faithful sulgeots thf inhabitAnts of thi» Frovipce. '4 1 Hi if » ? a ^M 16 Proceedings in the House. The experience of several years, and the present situation of this Pro- vince, unhappily prove too clearly that, vvithout a good undsrstanding among the several branches of the Legislature, it is impossible that the Colony should prosper ; alike impossible to remedy the evils now ex- perienced ; and to provide for the prosperity and welfare of His Majes- ty's Canadian subjects. And your Excellency may be assured that we shall hail with pleasure and eagerly second your Excellency's endeavours to establish conciliation, by which measures, the undoubted prerogatives of the Crown and the constitutional privileges of the people of this Pro- vince, will be equally respected. We learn, with the liveliest interest, that His Majesty's government has occupied itself with our financial difficulties, so as to relieve your Ex- cellency from all responsibility attendant upon any measure to be adopted for their adjustment. We have no doubt whatever that those measures have been dictated by the same spirit of justice and greatness which characterizes His Majesty's Imperial government in its conduct towards this country. And your Excellency may rest assured that we shall give our respectful consideration to the communication from His Majesty, which, your Excellency intends to convey to us upon the subject of the appropriation of the Provincial revenue. We are persuaded that good roads and other means of internal com- munication — a general system of education established on sound princi- ples — and an efficient Militia legally organized and sufficiently pro- tected from the abuse of arbitrary authoiity— essentially contribute to the prosperity, welfare and security of any country. We shall not fail to deliberate maturely upon matters of such high importance. And the sentiments expressed by your Excellency lead us to hope that we shall apply to them with effect. We shall pay respectful attention to such recommendations as your Excellency may hereafter make to us upon other measures of public improvement, and we feel assured that they will ever be founded on the high interests of the Province and the wants of its inhabitants. We have ev r been convinced of the justice and liberality of His Majesty's Government, and we believe it earnestly intends to remedy as far as possible,the grievances of which we have to complain, of which we find a striking and, to us, consolotary, proof iu the results of the petitions laid before His Majesty's Imperial Government by a very large majority of our constituents, against the multiplied and deep-rooted grievances, which have long retarded the progress, and prolonged the infancy and weakness of this colony. As soon as the inhabitants of Lower Canada made known to the King, the sufferings of the country, and suggested the remedy for those evils— as soon as their humble petitions were laid at the foot of the throne,— the Sovereign, ever just towards his faithful sub- Proceedings in the House. n jects, expressly ordered that those petitions should be forthwith submitted 10 the supreme tribunals of the Empire. The charges and weU-founded complaints of the Canadians before that august senate, were referred toa Committee of the House of Commons, indicated by the Colonial Minister. 1 hat committee, exhibiting ftstriking combination of talent and patriotism, uniting a general knowledge of public and constitutional law to a parti! cular acquaintance with the state of both the Canadas, formally applauded all the reforms which the Canadian people and their represeStativei demanded, and sti 1 fervently demand. After a solemn inVestigatloa- after deep and prolonged deliberation, the Committee made a report, an imperishable monument of their justice, and profound wisdom, an authen- tio testimonial of the reality of our grievances and of the justice of our complaints, faithfully interpreting our wishes and our wants. Through h.l'««P K V° Jk "°"'"^''' *** its authors. His Majesty's Gorernment has become better than ever acquainted with the true situation of this Pro- Tirice, and «n, better than eyer, remedy existing grievances aud obviate difficulties for the future. We feel assured that your Excellency has it personally at heart to provide for the contentment and welfare of the in- habitants of this Province, and we cannot doubt of the weight which the recommendations and testimony of a distinguished officer, whose pub- lic career has merited and obtained success by rendering important ser- vices to the country, must have with His Majesty. By the concurrence of all these circumstances, we perceive in your Excellency a combination of means an^J^cht.es for effecting good, such as none of your predecessors has possessed. We shall receive with respectful conBdence, and shall consider with mature reflection, the views of His Majesty's Government upon the several topics connected with the Government of this Province to which the attention of His Majesty's Ministers has been called. We consider these topics as of the highest importance to the tranquility and welfare of the inhabitants of this Province, and we humbly thank your Excellency for the assistance which you are pleased to offer towards the emcidation of any questions which may arise for discussion in the course of our proceedings. vwumc We are sincerely grieved at the arbitrary and manifestly illegal acts which, by depriving the Province of the aid of its Legislature during the Whole of last year, have occasioned very grievous evils, and put your Excellency under the necessity of laying before us the accounts of the Provincial Revenue and Expenditure for two years instead of one. We nevertheless assure your Excellency, that we shall apply the most scru- pulous attention to those accounts, when your Excellency shall have laid them before us, and that we shall gratefully avail ourselves of any expla- nations which your Excellency may be pleased to communicate tons respecting them. We respectfully assure your Excellency that the sole but infallible re- medy for the jealousies and dissensions, of which an obliviop. is assuredly 18 Imprisonment for Debt, it! tli« ^ni fttep towards inlt)t^«M«Mt df tmf ktbd, U A eoAdiliAtory, (lApn^ttll Md conatihltiottal admldistl^tioii, ittch hs Wecoi\M^tii\yex^titt6m your ]^««tl8ii6V ; and io mt cftttbiliatoty hope tv6 fth&Il lAitkd «V«i<]^ fetidfeMokir in otOtft mt th6 Bt^cdtive Go¥«rtiin«tit knA th6 L«gistat(i^e lU&y ippXy ihiit nMM&iA AHthti6h ttt th« advatlCliiUeMt 0^ thb g(iiieral tut«nif Itt a spirll df eordiAl t&^p^nMbh. And we doofait n6t thM, with stti^h ftdMn. Iig«kt r^w^r GtfMda will rapidly adVftncie towards prD^pftritVf and eth^kte, «ri long, th« ihoBt ot>ut(iUt ai*n The SouciTOR CrBNEKAL Stated that a notice had been given of a lAdtion to examine into the etfbcte of the present law of imprhoament for debt. The severity of that laW, the Housfe had softened by several enact- ments, but he wished to obtain more specific information as to its effects. Be theitXiftb tttbted aft address to Hb Sxc^lltDcy, pivyiiig tm to give directioni before tli to them the numb admitted faciendun to bail it Geo. IV. of those \ time duri io stale I which wa TheH Valuer 1 c. 1, as fa Chaii. Mr. Vi prisonmei engageme provisions individual execution sonmetit. as to men no exemp society w( him to en enactmeni to contem had done unrelentiti it not onl] and helple victed for another w confined f eyes of jus the Ordiii cases, and the comm( merce, anc Mr. Cu entitled t( 11 '1 Imprisonment for Debt. m directions to the Sheriffs of Quebec, Montreal and Three Rivers, to lay before the House a list of the writs of Capias ad respondendum directed to them or their predecessors, from 1794 to the 20ih October last ; of the number of persons arrested in virtue of such writs and imprisoned or admitted to bail j of those arrested by virtue of writs of Capias ad satis- faciendum ; of the number of persons so arrested who have been admitted to bail in pursuance of the provisions of the 5 Geo. IV. c. 2, and the 7 Geo. IV. c. 7 ; of the number now in confinement for debt ; of the number of those who have received alimentary allowance, stating the length of time during which it has been paid, and the amount, and iu all instances to state the amount of the debt for which such writs have been issued, which was agreed to. ' The House then resolved itself in Committee of the whole on Mr, Valueres* motion for the consideration of the Ordinance «5 Geo. Ill' c. 2, as far as it relates to imprisonment for debt. Mr. DuMouj[,tN in the Chaii. Mr. Vallieres said that by the old common law of the country, im* prisonment for debt was only inflicted on those who had contracted engagements as merchants or traders. That law had been chnnged by the provisions of the 25 Geo. III. c. 2. § 38. which declared that after any individual had been deprived of his goods and real property by writs of execution in part payment of his debts, his person was lia'ble io impri- sonment. Had the Ordinance explained that this was to have effect only as to merchants or mercantile transactions, it would have been just, but no exemption was afforded, and clergymen, women, and all classes of society were now liable to confinement. It would be unnecessary for him to enter into details of the evils which arose from this barbarous enactment. They were knovvn to all, and it was too melancholy a picture to contemplate an individual who has surrendered all his property, and had done all !n his power to pay his debts, incarcerated in gaol by an unrelenting creditor. The law was unjust as well as cruel, inasmuch as It not only punished the individual debtor, but also his unoffending wife and helpless children— it was inhuman, because, while an individual con. victed for crime was detained for the space of two or three months, another whb unfortunately could not pay the paltry sum of ^JO, might be confined for life— it was odious to the spirit of law, and criminal in the eyes of justice. He therefore proposed to resolve that the 38th section of the Ordinance 25 Geo. Ill, c. 2. imposing imprisonment for debt in all cases, and not restricting them to merchants and traders, is contrary to the common law of the country, and the rules of justice, is useless to com- merce, and injurious to the industry of the people. Mr. CuviLLiER, in seconding the motion, said the hon. mover was entitled to the thanks of the House and of the whole Province for his C Bli:' m Imprisonment for Debt. benevolent views, but he did not like the precipitate manner in which h« wished to hurry the matter. The interests of an extAnsive mercantile body were affected by the proposed resolution, and he deemed it but right that the consideration of this motion and that which was to follow, should lie over for some time^ to let those interested therein make their objections. Mr. Pafineau would wish to learn from the hon. mover his ultimate views in amending the clause now under consideration, whether he pro- posed to introduce a bankrupt-law similar to that of France or England, or to allow the law pre-existent before the passing of the Ordinance, to come into operation. Mr. Vallikres stated his wish to abolish the provisions of the Ordi- nance in totoy except as it applied to merchants and traders. He believed that in no country that he was aware of, did such provisions as these now in force exist, and he could only attribute it to the character of the in* dividuals who framed the law — Doctors, Apothecaries and some Mer- chants who wished to favour their own interests. The bankrupt-laws of France and England, were favourable to honest and unfortunate debtors. In France, a meeting of creditors took place, and if it is found neceUBry to institute legal proceedings, one was appointed to prosecute for the whole, and a great saving to the debtor effected, instead of the accumula- tion of actions and cosiS generally adopted here. In England the debtor is examined by his creditors before Commissioners of bankruptcy, and should his case prove favourable, he obtains a freedom from arrest, while the dishonest man suffered. He had no objection to delay the further consideration of his motion to a future day. Mr. Vallieres then moved that it is expedient that the 38th clause of the Ordinance 2d Geo. III. cap. 2, be amended and its operation restricted to debts between mer- chants and traders, relative to the commerce or trade which they carry on. The Committee reported progress and are to sit again Tuesday fort- night. — Adjourned. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Mr. Justice Bowex brought in a bill for rendering valid conveyances of lands held in free and common soccage, and for other purposes. A motion was made to enquire in what manner the Act of 6 Geo. IV. cap. 8, has been carried into execution, and to establish from the Re- turns made in pursuance of said Act, the progress of the augmentation of the population, which was negatived. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY, Wednesday, Not. 26. The members went up in a body to the Castle of St. Louis with their address to His Excellency, and His Excellency made the following answer. Bion me, 4 (r Bill for vacating seats of Members. •* Gektlbmen, •at'ilfaclion"**^ *^*"'' ^°" ^°' ***" '^'*'*"' ''*''*'*' ' "'^*"' ^***' *»'8'* « It U gratifying to me to learn that your aentioieatf so entirely accord In "15'!"' "*^.° the points to which I adferted on opening tlie Ses- sion , and to receive the assurance, which you are now pleased to cive me, of your sealous co-opeiatioo in my administration of the gOTernment. JJ Jr***."'" ^•j*'*'' **"* j"'"*^" *" belieting that be has nerer ST /ll? . o **^!f>«"'»t« "■«§!»'<» and P»ternal soiicituie for the welfare of his faithful Canadian subjects, and you may be assured that I have nothing so earnestly at heart as to promote their happiness and prosoeritr by efery means in my power." *^ v.|.cniy Mr. Neilsoii presented the petition of P. Chasseur of Quebec, pray- ing for legislatiTe aid to improve and increase a Museum which he had commenced, and to defray the expenses he had been at in its formation, which was read and referred to a Special Committee, * BILL FOR TACATINO SEATS OF MEMBERS* *Jf'C ^t''^^' previous to the bill being read a second time, would wish to ask whethei it was the same that had passed the Legislature in 1827 and was then reserved for His Majesty's assent. On Mr. Neilson's statinR that It was identically the same, Mr. Ogden thought that the hon. move? might reserve the further consideration of the bill tiU he was sure that rlfncr??- *^®"' 7^"^*^,"°* ^® «'^«°» ''*'''=»' according to the terms of the Constitution, would be known in March next. Mr. Neilson was of opinion that the present bill was not deemed of sufficient importance at home, to be brought before the Sovereign for bis assent, and he thought the House ought therefore to proceed upon the bill, and also to renew ail bills which had been hitherto rejected, delayed or reserved for the Royal assent. * "ciayea Mr. Ogden was doubtful how far it was decorous to discuss a bill while another branch of the Legislature was now in deliberation upon the same identical bill. It was supposing that the Royal assent would not be given. The two years which the Crown was by the Constitution allowed, before the Royal sanction was required to be declared, would not expire till March next. After what the House had said if their respect for the indubitable prerogatives of the Crown, he hoped that the House would delay the consideration of the bill, while that prerogative was in progress. He would move that the order of the day might be dis- charged, not that he was opposed to the bill itself, having voted for it when last before the Legislature, but because he did not deem it decorous 'lf> m m ■ Bill for vacating seats oj Members. in the House to bring It under consideration now while it wa« In suspen- sion before another branch of the Legislature. He did not think the House was competent to proceed upon the same measure, but had it taried in the sliahtest degree, either in the title, or the preamble, so as to make lome difference, he might have consented to the second reading. He thought the House ought patiently to wait till after March next. Mr. Neilsom stated that the bill was founded upon resolutions taken in the House of Assembly of 1825. The bill of the Assembly was amended in the Conncil in 1826, and in 1827, the amendments being concurred in by the House, the bill was passed which was reserved for the Royal sanction. His object was, not to delay the passing of a bill which had received the sanction of both Houses. Their present pro- ceedings could not in the least affect the exercise of the Royal prerogative which must be made known in the Province before March next. Mr. BoRGT\, in seconding Mr. Ogden's motion, concurred In the sen- timents which he expressed. On a division of the House, the motion was negatived and the bill was then read a second time. Mr. Neilson stated that the principles upon which the bill was framed were soundly constitutional, that no individual, who by the people of the Province had been chosen to be a guardian of the public money, should when enjoying that station, become also a receiver of that revenue. 1 hat principle was conformable to the practice adopted in England, but inde- pendent of any precedent, it was in coincidence with reason and the terms of the British Constitution. Under all these circumstances he saw no reason to delay the bill till after March next, and perhaps be again delayed two years from that period. By proceeding they at least saved one year. He had made no exception in the bill as to officers of militia or justices of the peace, as these individuals, in present times, received nothing but trouble for their pains. The bill did not aim at any particular members of that House, nor did it declare that officers of the Government were ineligible to a seat in that House. It was intended that as a member entered that House, so he should continue, and should he accept of any offices of profit or emolument, that he should be sent back to his consti- tuents for them to declare if ihey had the same confidence in him as they Jiad before bis acceptance of office. Mr. CuviLiEB did not see the necessity of making any exception what- soever, for if the rule held good in one instance, it ought to do in all. If a militia officer, from his rank, or other circumstance, received a portion of the revenues of the people while amem'jer of that House, it was sufficient that he held according to the terms of the bill, a place of emolument or profit under the Crown, and accordingly must vacate his seat. The bill referred to a Committee.— Adjourned to Friday. Message from His Excellency, §$ LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Nothing of importance occurred, excepting a motion for a Committee to consider whether it will be adviHable to revife an act to render voluntary Sheriff's sales, {decrets volontairesy) more easy and less expensive, which was granted, and a Committee appointed. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Friday, Not. 28. Mr. VAttiERCs presented a petition from certain mechanics of Quebec, praying to be incorporated under the title of the " Quebec Friendly Society," in similar terms with the act of the 57 Geo. III. c. 30, which had passed both Houses, but was reserved for the Royal assent, but which was never sii^nified. A bill for the purpose now prayed for was introduced and passed in 1826, but was amended in the Council, so as to enable the Governor at any time to dissolve the Society. This amendment the House did not then concur in. Petition referred. Mr. Neilsom presented a petition from J. B. Morand, of I^otbiniere, ?» French alien, who had served in the British Navy, and had resl'^ed in tnis Province for several years, praying to be admitted to practise as a Notary, having served under regular indentures according to law. Mr. Neilson observed that the petitioner having bona fide performed all that the law required of him, was entitled to his commission, notwithsanding the alien laws of England, which were passed at a time when religious opinions disa- bled persons from holding offices of profit or emolument. Petition referred. Dr. Labrie presented a petition from certain inhabitants of the County of York, setting forth various grievances under which they and the inha- tantsof this Province have laboured from the Administration of Lord DaU housie,the Attorney General, &c. &c. Petition referred. The following message was received from H. E. the Administrator. JAMES KEMPT. H. E. the Administrator of the Government avails himself of the earliest opportunity of conveying to the House of Assembly, the following Com- munication, which he has received the King's commands io make, to the Provincial Parliament. In laying the same before the House of Assembly, His Excellency is commanded by H. M. to state, that H. M. has received too many proofs of the loyalty and attachment of his Canadian subjects, to doubt their cheerful acquiescence in every effort which H. M.'s Government shall If^' El '1 1: V 'I'l M Mctsagefrom His Excellency, make to reconcile pMt difference!, and he looked forward with hope to a period, when, by the return of harmony, all branches of the Legislature will be able to bestow their undivided attention on the best methods of advancing the prosperity and developing the resources of the extensive •nd valuable territories comprised within H. M.'s Canadian Provinces. With a view to the a^jue* nent of the questions in controversy, H. M.'s Government has communicated to H. E. Sir James Kempt, its views on different branches of this important subject ; but as the complete settle- ment of the affairs of the Province can not be effected but with the aid of the Imperial Parliament, the instructions of H,E. are atpreseut confined to the discussion of those points alone, which can no longer be left unde- cided without extreme disadvantage to the interests of the Province. Among the most material of those points, the first to be adverted to. Is, the proper disposal of the financial resources of the country ; and with the view of obviating all future misunderstanding on thb matter, H. M.'s Government have prescribed to H. E., the limits within which his com- munications to the Legislature on this matter, are to be confined. H. E. is commanded by H. M., to acquaint the House of Assembly, that the discussions which have occurred for some years past, between the diffierent branches of the Legislature of this Province, respecting the ap- propriation of the revenue, have engaged H. M.'s serious attention, and that he has directed careful inquiry to be made, in what manner these questions may be finally adjusted with a due regard to the prerogative tii the Crown, aa well as to their Constitutional privileges, and to the gene- ral welfare of his faithful subjects, in Lower Canada. H. E. is further commanded to state, that the Statutes pasaed in the 14th and 3Ist years of the reign of His late Majesty, have imposed upon the Lords Commissioners of H.M. Treasury, the duty of appropriating the produce of the revenue granted to H. M. by the first of these Statutes j and that, whilst the law shall continue unaltered by the same authority by which it was framed, H. M. is not authorized to place the revenue under the controul of the Legislature of this Province. The proceeds of the revenue arising from the act of the Imperial Par- liament 14th Geo. in. together with the sum appropriated by the Pro- vincial Statute 35th Geo. HI. and the duties levied under the Provincial Statutes 4 1st Geo. III. cap. 13 and 14, may be estimated for the current year, at the sum of ^34,700. The produce of the casual and territorial revenue of the Crown, and of fines and forfeitures, may be esUmated for the same period, at the sum of ^3,400. ' Mestagefrom Hit Excellency. §§ «K '"'?'. ""'T*?'?' ""»WDg together the sum ot £i»,loo, conttitnta I ''f*^!^^"?' •** ."!"""*' *""'«*« *" *•>'» Proilnce, which the Uw hu pUeed At the diapoial of the Crows. <3S^?I;^^^TP^*'*1!**^•'''•''*^*^•■"'^*^''» coHectlvo refenneof £38,100, the salary of the officers administering the Gorernment of the Province, and the salaries of the Judges shall be defrayed But H M being graciously disposed to mark, iu the strongest manner, the confi- dence which he reposes In the liberality and affection of his faithful Pro- f incW ParliameBt, has been pleased to command H. E. to announce to the House of Assembly that no farther appropriation of any part of this refenue will be made until H. E. shall hate been enabled to become acquainted with their sentiments, as to the most adyantageoos mode in which it can be applied to ih; public serf ice ; and it will be gratifying to H. M. If the recor aitndatF< :i .nade to the Eiecutire Government off the Province on this Subject shall be such as it may be able with pro- priety, and with due atttr< on to the interest and the efficiency of H. M. UoTernment to f Ipt. H. M. fully relies upon the liberality of His faithful Provincial Parlia- ment to make such further provision as the exigencies of the public se.-- ▼Ice of the Province, (for which the amount of the Crown-revenue* above mentioned^ may prove inadequate,) may require. The balance of money in the hands of the Receiver General, which is not placed by law at the disposal of the Crown, must await the appro- priation which it may be the pleasure of the Provincial Legislature tp oiaiie. H. E. is further commanded by H. M. to recommend to the House of Assembly. The enactment of a law, for the indemnity of any persons who have heretofore, without authority, signed or acted in obedience to warrants for the appropriation to the public service of any unappropriated monies of the Province. And H. M. anticipates that they will, by an acquiescence in this recommendation shew that they cheerfully concur with him in the efforts which he is now making for the establishment of a permanent good understanding, between the different branches of the Executive and Legislative Government. The proposals which H. E. has been thus instructed to make for the adjustment of the pecuniary affairs of the Province, are intended to meet the difficulties of the ensuing year, and he trusts they may be found effectual fort! it purpose. H. M. has, however, further commanded H. E. to acquaint the House of Assembly that a scheme for the permanent settlement of the financial '■* '"'li!' 2(]i Message from 7^ is Excellency. concerns of Lower Canada, if? in contemplation, and H. Mr cntertainiS no doubt of such a resal* being attainr;ble at* will prove conducive to t\n6 general welfare cf the Pro»ince, and satisfactory to His falthf'.\l Canadian Subjects. The complaints which have reached H M.'s Government resiiecting the inadequate se^aritj- heretofore given by the Receiver General and by the Sheriffs, for the dup application of the public monies in their hands le not escaped the very serious attention of the Ministers oftheCrown^ It has appeared to H. M.'s Government, that the most effecluai aecuri- ty against abases in these departments, would be found in enforcing in this Province, a strict adherence to a system established under H. M.'s instructions, in otherColonies, for preventing the accumulation of balan- ceii in the hands of public accountants, by obliging them to exhibit their accounts to a competent authority at short intervals, and immediately to pay over the ascertained balance into a safe place of deposit ; — and in order to obviate the difficulty aiising from the want of such pJace of deposit in Lower Canada, H. E. is authorized to state that the Lords Commissioners of H. M.'s Treasury will hold themselves responsible to the Province for any sums v/hich the Receiver General or Sheriffs may pay over to the Commissary General, and H. E. is instructed to pro* pose to the House of Assembly, the enactment of a law, binding those officers to pay over to the Commissary General such balances, as, upon rendering their accounts to the competent authority, shall appear to be remaining in their hands, over and above what may be required for the current demar.ds upon their respective offices ; — such payments being made on condition that the Commissary General shall be bound on de- mand to deliver Bills on H. M.'s Treasury for the amount of his receipts, H. E. is further instructed to acquairt the House of Assembly, that although it was found necessary by an Act passed in the last Session of the Imperial Parliament, 9th Geo. IV. cap. 76, sec 26, to set at rest doubts which had arisen whether the statute for regulating the distribu- tion between the Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada, of the duties of Customs collected at Quebec, had not been inadvertently repealed by the general terms of a later date : H. M.'s (lovernment have no desire that the interference of Parliament in this matter should be perpetuated, if the Provincial Legislatures can themselves agree upon any plan for a division of these duties which may appear to them more convenient and more equitable ; and on the whole of the subject, H. M's. Government will be happy to receive such information and assistance as the Legisla- tive Council and Assembly of this Province may be able to supply. The appointment of an Agent in England to indicate the wishes of the inhabitants of Lower Canada, appearing to be an object of great solici- tude with the Assembly, H. M.'s Government will cheerfully accede to Message from His Excellency. 27 *^ J*?k'! *'Pr«"i"^ ^^ ^^"^ "°"«« ^'^ Assembly upon this head j pro- wded that such Agent be appointed, m in other British Coloniesf by name, m an net to be passed by the Legislative Council and Assembly, and approved by the Executive Government of the Province: and h! M. 8 Governiaent are persuaded that the Legislature will not make such selection, as to impose on the Government, the painful and invidious duty JoseiT ef t! °" ^"*""'^ °^ °°^ P"'°°''^ objection to the pro- ,v,fl'i*''*?r®''""^"'." further willing to consent to the abolition of he Office of Agent as:t is at present constituted, but it is trusted that the Jiberality of the House of Assembly will indemnify the present holder of tnis Office, to whose conduct in that capacity no objection appears ever ^^^^^^"u™**^^ '"?®^**' ^''''°"' some adequate indemnity being provided for him, it would not be compatible with justice, to consent to the immediate abolition of his office. «,iS'k^*'^ i?°''®'""'"*"*».^®'"^ "*''■>' sensible of the great inconvenience Tpln -iff A^l sustained, owing to the large tracts of lands which have been suffered to remain in a waste and unimproved condition, in conse- quence of the neglect or the poverty of the grantees, it has appeared to rl^A -^°T""f"«"t «o be desirable that the laws in force in Upper C;anada, for levying a tax upon wild land, on which the settlement duti-s had not been performed should be adopted in this Province, and H. h. Zl '?ult ^''^'^'^ ***'' '"^j^*=* °'' '*»« attention of the House of Assem- Diy with that view. The attention of H. M.'s Government has also been drawn to several other important topics j among which may be enumerated, the mischiefs which are said to result from the system of tacit mortgages effected by a general acknowledgement of a debt before a Notary }Eobiecionable t" nSrfT °;-"-y-r« -d to be in u'.e in ^he^ownTps' for th.T.-^."^%^^«'"'*'*'?'? ""^^^^^^ ' ""d the want of proper Coart^ matter, of ':•" .'^"''' ^'f "^ '" 't" townships. Regulations affecting SlI 1. .""'"' can obviously be most effectually made by the Pro? rrSoil/nfA "'u"^":^- V°™™^"ded to draw the attention of and!r.nl «^. Assembly to these subjects, as matters requiring their early and most serious attention. *i 6 " '=»"jr fAJl''°°*'-^"f,°"' ?-^- ^''^ ''^^" commanded to state that H. M. reHes fonr^n ?"*'f adjustment of the various questions which have been so M •! C^P'^' T" '^^ ^"y^"y ^"d attachment hitherto evinced by h! M. 8 Canadian subjects, and on that of the Provincial Parliament ; and House of A«!k?^-"' »° *^°"*^*' of the cordial concurrence of the ffood in Lha?.?^^ '". '" "r'"''"« calculated to promote the common good, in whatever quarter such measures may happen to originate .♦ to'the Lel'SLreTSncn"^^*^^'"*' ^"" '^ '='»""« «a>«Uaaeou.I, trawoUtted n Ui l^ «8 Proceedings of the Houte. :!' , . Mr . Vallierkb moved that the thanks of this House be presented to H. Ei for his gracious message, and on motion of Mr. Youno 150 copies thereof were onlered to be printed. Mr. Neilson, when the first motion was under discussion, stated that the message afforded hopes that the ttrst step was taken towards granting to the people those rights, which he was determined never to abandon. Mr. Lbslib then presented a petition of certain inhabitants of Mont- real, setting forth various grievances, which the inhabitants of thiS Province have suffered from Lord Dalhousie's Administration. Keferrett to same Committee as that of the county of York, and the two petitions, on motion of Dr. Blanchet, were ordered to be printed. Mr. Leslie presented a petition from the proprietors of the Montreal Library, praying for a continuation of the Act, 59, Geo. IIL c. 22, in their favour, with some alterations. ; Mr. Valliekes brought in a bill to ascertain, establish and confirm in a legal and regular manner, and for civil purposes, the parochial subdi- visions of various parts of this Province, This bill was founded on a message of tlie late Governor to that House on the 12th February, 1827, and had passed into a law that year, but was reserved for H. M. s plea- sure. That assent had not as yet been made known, and he therefore begged to renew the bill. Also a bill to establish certain qualifications for Jurors and the method of summoning them. Also a bill for the qualification of Justices of the Peace. Mr. Christie presented a petition from certain inhabitants of the Eastern division of the district of Gasp^, praying that the 4, Geo. IV. c. 1, as amended by the 5 Geo. IV. c. 15, for the regulation of tJie fisheries in Gasp^, Cornwallis and Northumberland, may be continued. The petition was referred to a Committee, and it was moved, as an in- struction to the Committee, to enquire whether it would not be expedient to regulate the fisheries of those counties by separate and distinct bills. Mr. Christie presented another petition from certain inhabitants of Gaspd, praying that the monies levied in the district might be laid out in internal communications, by the Grand Juries of that District. He stated that the plan proposed in the petition did not meet with the con- currence of all his constituents, as some did not think that they were yet capable of managing their local concerns. The petition was referred to the Committee on the Gasp€ fisheries. - Mr. Nkilson moved that that portion of H. E.'s speech which made allusion to the militia of the Province be referred to a Committee of seven. TVia/ by Jury, 29 Mr. Lbtournbau brought in a bill for preserving the graii growing on the beach, for purposes of agriculture. On motion of Dr. Blanchrt the House resolved itself into a Com- mittee of the whole, to consider if it be expedient to amend or alter the 28 Geo. Ill, c. 8, which declares that no person shall practice physic or surgery in Lower Canada, or practice midwifery in Quebec or Montreal, without a licence. Mr. Clouet in the Chair. The Committee resolved that it was expedient the Ordinance should be repealed j in which the House concurred, and a Committee was appointed. Mr. Leslie presented the report of the late Cmmissioners of the Lachine Canal, which was then referred to a Committee of five. On the order of the day for the second reading of the bill for extendinir the trial by jury, Mr. Oodkn stated that the Ordinance of 1785, extended the trial by jury in civil cases, only to those between merchants and traders, or for personal wrongs to be compensated in damages. In the course of his practice he had found the want of the necessary provisions to extend jury-trials to cases which were wholly grounded on matters of feet, and to those cases brought into the Courts of last resort from inferior tribunals, in which matters of fact formed the subject of appeal, and which could best be determined by a jury of the country. He would n tice the case of an individual who institutes an action against the pro- prietor of a miU-dam, for the loss of his rafts and timber. The parties bring in, from the country, 15 or 20 witnesses each, to prove that the dam is injurious and ought to be demolished, or to prove that it does not affect the channel of the river. The examination of these witnesses was protracted by the advocates of the parties— the time for evidence was linriited— and such a case would remain in the Court for neariy three years before judgment could be pronounced. By the proposed bill this would be obviated, for all actions for delits or quasi delits where facts were involved, would be tried by jury, and when the fact was established, the judges would apply the law to the case. The bill, he had no doubt, would be highly beneficial to the public ; for while it tended to give immediate compensation to an individual having a good right of action, it would allow the judges to apply more time to the consideration of causes where points of law were involved. He would refer the bill to a Committee, who might obtain much valuable information on this head from a report presented tc the House of Commons in 1815, when the jury-system was introduced into Scotland. Referred. uJr® ?°"^® *^®'' P"'ceeded to the second reading of Mr. Valhere^* bill for facilitating a legal remedy to such as have claims and demands on r w ^^r**^'^ Provincial Parliament. Mr. Neilson stated, in the absence of Mr. VAtLiBBES, that the bill had alucady passed the House two op -J 30 Proceedings in both Houses. three times, ivhen no objection vrea taken to its provisioos. then ordered to be engrossed, and the House adjourned. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The bill was The Hon. Mr. Stewart moved for the usual annual returns from the Banks, when the Hon. Mr. Cuxhbert stated his intention of bringing before the Council a motion to enquire how far the authorities and powers conferred upon them by their Charters have been exercised for the public benefit, and also to enquire into certain transactions in which the public are much interested. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. IP' Saturday, Nov. 29. Mr. Labrib brought up the report of the Committee on the vacant oflScers, &c. of the House. Mr. BouRDAOEB presented a petition of divers inhabitants of Lotbiniere, praying for an aid for a school ; and Dr. Blanchet, presented one from the British and Canadian school-society of Quebec, praying for pecuniary aid ; both of which were referred to the Committee on that part of H. E.'s speech relative to Education.* Dr. Blanchbt moved, that the Clerk of the House do address a cir- cular letter to all Cur^s, Ministers and Rectors in the Province, request- ing a list of all the schools within their parishes, with a detail of their means of support — number of scholars — mode of instruction, and whether under public or private superintendence. Mr. Vallieres thought it better that an address should be voted to H.E., praying him to obtain from these Rev. Gentlemen the necessary information. He could not say how far the Clergy of any of the churches would attend to the requisition of that House, and believed that they would with more alacrity obey the orders of H. £. Dr. Labrie stated that certain information formerly called for from the Cur^s had not, when famished, met with ^hat attention which it was natural for them to expect, and they might therefore be indifferent to a new application from the same quarter, unless they were assured their labour would not be lost. With such an assurance he had no doubt they would render every information in their power. * As all petitions are simultaneously presented both to the Assembly and the Legiilative Council, it is only necessary to notice them in one place. Proceedings in both Houses. 31 e bill was from the - bringing •rities and ircised for I in which 19. le vacant lOtbiniere, one from pecuniary )art of K. 'ess a cir- •; request- il of their tion, and e voted to necessary i churches that they I for from lich it Was ferent to a ured their loubt they >ly and the Mr. Vaimkres said that the answer alluded to by the hon. gentleman (on the subject of the tenures, and addressed to the Committee on Waste Lands,) had been printed. After some conversation Dr. Blanohet withdrew his motion. u,??' yt^**"*"! 8 brought in a bill to regulate the office of Sheriff. The bill bad already been approved by the Assembly, and had been amended in the Council. He expressed his regret that he had not been able to obtain the amendments made by the kite Judge Perrault, to whose legal qiuili- facations he paid a just tribute, and said he was so well aware of their value, that he should spare no pains to obtain them before the bill should be referred to a Committee. The Solicitor General caUed the attention of the House to the returns laid before them by the Prothonotaries of the several districts of the number of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials within the last two years J in which he had discovered several errors ; in that from the dis- trict of Montreal no less than Six returns were wanting, the purpose for which these returns were called for wouldbe defeated, unless they were rendered in a complete state. He moved that they be referred to a Committee of the whole, when he should move that an address be present, ed to H. E. praying that the law might be enforced against the gentlemen who had neglected to perform the duties imposed upon them; The Solicitor General brought in a bill toprcvent fraudulent debtors evading their creditors, by escaping from the Provincc—AAjourned. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The Hon. Mr. Richardson presented a bill, for making mortgages special on all real and immoveable property, held in free and common soccage, and for the enregistraUon of all deeds and mortgaffes relative to inch property. °^ The bill for reviving and amending the act, respecting highways and bridges m the townships, was, after debate, and an amendent made, ordered to be engrossed. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Monday, Dec. 1. The bill for facilitating a legal remedy to such as have claims on the I'rovincial Government, was passed, and ordered to the Council.* * The Bubstance of such bills at passed «* gT^9.it%i of the boons confer- red on them by the British Government, it was an anomaly for which he could not account, that all those menibers of the Council who were opposed to the introduction of a representative body into Canada, were continued m the new Executive Council, and those who favoured the people were rejected. The powers of the old Legislative Council were retamed by the new Executive Council, and among those the audit of pubhc accounts, while according to the principles of tISe English Con- stituUoo, Oie whole subject of expenditure from beginning to end, and through all its progress, is the peculiar province of that House. As to the subject of pay or emolument, he thought that the Bill ought to have two principles in view. It was right that the House should carefullv protect Its own purity and independence, and take every precaution that Its members swerve not from the straight line of their duly by undue influence, but they ought not to carry the principle too far. He did not gink It essential to the purity of that House that every member of that House who accepted of an appointment in a country parish as a Com- missioner, which probably would not yield him £20, should vacate his seat, expose the whole County to the vexation, trouble and expense of a new election, when no essential object was to be attained. The first object to be regarded was purity and independence, but the second ought to be the convenience and benefit of the public. The Privy Counsellors of England, though not paid, had a certain influence and patronage attached to their offices by which they were enabled to carry on public business, and they also aU held other situations which con- ferred on them large salaries. But, here the allowance of £lOO, to an Executive Counsellor, could not be considered as having much influence on his opinions, and even that was probably allowed him more as a re- compense for his services as a Judge in Appeal than for his service as a Counsellor. He did not think it right to recur to elections often, where no real advantage was to be gained, though the principle was good, that the people should be called to reiterate their confidence in their representa- Uves. But, as in England, honours most commonly were conferred upon ttiose who enjoyed public confidence, so was it wrong here to exclude from the Executive Council those who were chosen by the Canadian people as their representatives, and who might thereby be enabled to in- fluence the Government in its proceedings. After a few observations from Mr. Neilson and Mr. Cuvillier, the amendment was carried on a division, and the 4th amendment passed £ tl' 35 Agricultural Society. unanimously. The House being resumed the BUI a. amended wa. or- dered to be engrossed, by a majority of 24 to 8. On the 2d reading of the Bill for preserving for the purposes ofjvisband- rvthearass«ro°'ngonthe Beach of the St. Uwrence, Mr. Bou dages committed by raftsmen and their lumber upon the low lands about lake St. Peter, where much hay was annually obtained. The House in Committee of the whole on the Bill for extending the Trial by Jury. Mr. Quirouet in the chair. Mr OoDEN moved in amendment to the said Report, that the pro- visions of °he B^ll be limited to actions arising from moveable property onlv Mr Borgia opposed the motion as tending rather to obscure than to elucidate the provisions of the Bill. Mr. Ogden stated his view in irmUing his jiry tHa" to matters relating to moveable property, was because aTury fn hi cfties could not correctly estimate the damage sustained by SL relaUng to real property in a distant part of the province, and it wouWbewr^ present Bill any provisions for sum- mon nedrstant jurors, when the Hon. member for the Upper Town rZ. Van re^) had introduced a Bill for the qualification and method of summoning. The amendment was carried, the Cha rman reported pro- grTsTand Ihe Bill ordered to be engrossed, by a mojority of 25 to 1.- Adjourned. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, Dec. 2. Mr. Neilson brought up tbe Report of the Agricultural Society. This Report states that the Society have continued their efforts to improve the pracSof the farmers of this Province-that their endeavours have been attended with success-that they have endeavoured to extend the formation of County-Societies, but they regret the want of sfcientco. operation of the country gentlemen-that £l50 of the grant of 1826, is still in the public chest-that they deem a reform in the defective prac ticeof the farmers of this country essentially necessary, and as a remedy, suegest that practical farms of instruction be formed in the Province, to which ought to be attached Lectureships on Chemistry, Botany, Vete- rinary Surgery, &c.-that some young agriculturists be sent home to study practically, and on their return introduce the best modern systems in the Provinceithat an attempt ought to be made to introduce a taste for read- ing among the farmers-that the Society propose to issue an AgnciUtural paper in French only, gratis for some time, which will cost about £100, that the funds granted in 1826, are nearly expended, and they pray that a grant for five years, successively, be made in their favour. was carriei Petitions presented, ^c. 37 Mr. LcsLtE presented a Petition from the Natural History Soctettf of Montreal^ praying for an aid to carry into execution several plans which it had formed for the investigation of the Natural History of the country, — to purchase niittee. books, instruments, minerals, &c. Referred to a Com- Mr. Christie presented a Petition from Lt. Col. Vassal d» Monvielf praying for a remuneration for certain services performed in 1815, but which he withdrew on the suggestion of the Speaker, from its being ad* dressed in the shape of a letter instead of that of a Petition. Mr. Christie presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Perc4, in the District of Gaspe, praying that the monies levied in the District be laid out in its improvement, and that j^500 be granted to open a road from Perc6 to the Grand River of Malbaie, a distance of 13 miles over a mountainous and swampy country. — Referred to the Committee on Gasp6 Fisheries. Mr. Neilson brought up the Report of the Committee on the Petition of Pierre Chasseur. The Report recommended that a sum of ^^350 be granted to the Petitioner to increase his collection of Natural History, on his putting the public in possession of the said Museum, upon an invento- ry, as it now stands, and of all additions thereto. Dr. Laterriere presented a Petition from certain mariners resident in Quebec and the District, praying that a depot for provisions may be established similar to those on Anticosti, at St, Anne, three leagues below. Cape Chat. Referred to a Committee. Mr. Leslie brought up the Report of the Select Committee on the Petition of the proprietors of the Montreal Library. Mr. QuESNEL moved that, in consequence of the circumstances which had attended the opening of the present Session, which could not have been generally foreseen, it was expedient to extend the rule of the House for the receipt of petitions for private Bills, for the introduction of private Bills, and for the Reports of Committees on such Bills. Mr. Ogden opposed the preamble of the motion as contrary to an established rule of that House. Mr. Quesncl thought it was necessary to put on the Journals the reasons which had induced the House to depart from the terms of its rules. He stated he could find precedents in the Journals for such a motion. Mr. Stuart contended that precedents were only of use when the objection had been taken. To speak professionally there was a wide difference between a judgment rendered par defaut coniumace, to that rendered contradictoirement. After some remarks from Mr. Ogden, who stated he would waive the question at the present time, the motion was carried. 38 Parochial subdiviiiOHBt ^c. Dr. LAtEnniKue rtioTcd that it be an initrucUon to the CommUtee on the petition of the Quebec n«ifi)jator», to enquire if it be not ex pedient,aDd necetsary for the purposes of commerce and the security of the country, that pilots be acqaainted with the courses, shoals and roclts in both chan- nels, from the port of Quebec to Uare Island, and that on such Itnow- ledge being obtained by the said pilots, they be licensed to pracjjcei and that the report of a Committee of the House of Assembly in 1OT7, relating to the same objects, be referred to the said Committee. Mr. Clooet presented a petition from M. J. Duchesnay, Joseph Roy, and fV. F, Scott, Esquires, of Quebec, praying for a remuneration for their trouble and expenses incurred in the examination of witnesses, &c. on the contested election for the Lower Town of Quebec. Referred to the Committee already appointed for a stmiUr petition on the Thre* Rivers election. Mr. Christie brought up the Brst report of the Ga8p6 Committee, stating that they had examined the first petition referred to them, and reported by two bills, the one for preserting the salmon fisheries in the county of Northumberland, the other to renew certain acts relative to the fisheries in the district of Gaspe. The said bills were then introduced. The bill for extending the Trial by Jury and the bill for vacating the seats of members of the Assembly in certain cases, were passed— the former by a majority of 19 to 1, and the latter by a majority of 18 to 2. The second reading of the bill for facilitating the parochial subdivisions of the Province for civil purposes. Mr. Neimon stated that it was one of great importance, and wasfounded on a message of Lord Dalhousie of 12th Feb. 1817. He moved to have it referred to a Committee of five. Mr. Cuviluer briefly pointed out several errors in the bill, and also remarked that some of the powers given to the Commissioners were somewhat extensive. Dr. Labrie hoped that some measures would be taken to procure Uttres d'arrondissement for the property of the fabriques of the parishes to be established, Mr. Borgia argued at some length that the right of subdividing and formation of parishes, according to the English and French laws, was al- ways vested in the legislature. By the present bill the House were proposing to sacrifice all the powers which their constituents had con- ferred upon them, by transferring the authority of forming parishes to three Commissioners. He would allow the Pope to erect spiritoalitlM, but temporal parishes were under the controul of the Legistaturc, Ihe bill was then referred. iRi II Jktontreal General Hospital. $$ LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. On the order of the day to consider of the expediency of tn Amendment Kvl^ ? T,°I ^^ ^.'°' *"♦ "• '• "'•"'« *° »»•« """de if proving . pnt»nt. which tended to make a copy signed by the Protinciil Secretary ftlij in Court, as an acie authentique, it was opposed by Mr. Ju.iice Kmr, as htroducing another s^n.ture. to be received b, the judges, in addition to the hundreds already declared to be ,alld, of the Nota, ie, Cur«.. ic. of the i'roTlnce. It was supported at some length by Mr. Chief Justice mitted in a Court. Discussion deferred. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Wednesday, Dec. 8. Mr. PnouLx presented a petition from A. G. Douglas, Esq. praylnir for a reimbursement of monies that he has adtanced and expended on laying out roads in the townships. Mr. DoMouMM presented a petition from the Fief Grosbois, Mas- liinong6, praying for some enactment for the conser?ation of its common. Mr. Vallieres presented a petition from the Dame$ Religeute$ of the city of Quebec praying some aid. Mr. Leslie presented a petition from the National Free School of Montreal, praying for aid. The Solicitor Gzneral presented a petition from the inhabitants of the Eastern townships, praying for English laws. Courts of Justice, Regis- ter offices, special mortgages, &c. as recommended by the Canada Com- mittee's Report. Mr. Leslie presented a petition from the Corporation of the Montreal General Hospital praying aid to its funds. These petitions were all re- ferred to several Committees. MONTREAL OKNSRAL nOSFITAL. Dr. Labrie was of opinion that before any aid was granted to a public institution, it was necessary to enquire if the rules of that establishment were beneficial or injurious to the public interests. He had been informed that a rule existed in the institution, who now demanded public aid, by which no medical man was ad"iitted to the care of the sick, unless he had obtained a diploma from one of the British Universities. Such a regulation was injurious, for in tbb Province, all medical men ought to be equally protected and supported. He therefore was of opinion that the 40 Montreal General Hospital. lit, ir»'i. rule of which he now complained, should be amended, before any public money be granted. He therefore moved an instruction to the said Com- mittee to enquire if it be not expedient, before any aid be granted, to enquire if there be not certain rules in the institution, which are contrary to the interests of a certain class of H. M.'s subjects. Mr. Leslie seconded the motion, because he had never heard of such a regulation. Mr. Neilson could see no objection to granting money to an institu- tion, even with such a rule, and he thought that tne founders of that institution were perhaps right in adhering to such a rule. Mr. QoESNEL did not see why the suffering poor should have their wants and complaints unheeded by the Legislature, merely, because seme medical men objected to the terms of a trifling rule of an institution, whose bene- fits to the public virerevery extensive. The Solicitor General would certainly vote against such an instruc- tion. The Montreal General Hospital was entirely erected by the muni- ficence of private individuals, and through the labour, the ^eal, and the industry of its founders, an institution now existed in Montreal, creditable to the city, honourable to those to whom it owed 'ts existence, and second to no similar institution in the Canadas. Their efforts had been hitherto crowned with eminent success, and the institution h^d .^e«'L?««°;^° ^^° useful, that a Royal Charter had been conferred on it. Ihe present question was whether an aid be granted to the institution, and »t ^as the duty of the House to enquire if it was of such public utibty as to merit such assistance. They ought to leave the internal arrangement, to those who were capable of attending to its interests. If any medical man has been excluded from attendance on the sick, it is not for him to bring his petty grievances here, but to appeal to the Directors or Governors ihe House might as well resolve that no aid be granted to the Hotel Dieu Hos- pital, unless they increase the number of their nurses, or that they dress in a peculiar uniform. Dr. Labbie did not deem the reasons assigned sufficient to lay aside the proposed motion. If the institution continued to remain a private one, the rules he alluded to might be very good if no money was asked, b»t the petition now read states that the institutionw.il f*".*" *he ground should not aid be extended to it. He thought that ««V<=t;«'"°g «"f J^"'^ was [sanctioning a species of persecution, for the '"^tUut on was now deprived of the services of one of the most eminent medical men in that city, universally acknowledged as such. No individual more approved of the Montreal General Hospital than himself, and none more w'H'"f tj aid in its support, but when th« representatives of the people are called Montreal General Hospital. 41 upon to aid an institution, it is right to enquire if there be any thing in its rules which may be remedied. He had not the slightest wish to pro- duce the fall of that useful institution, but he thought that its Directors should take the best and most perfect means to attain the best assistance to the sick. He had been led to believe that the rule of which he com- plained had past clandestinely, and that several of the Directors were perfectly ashamed of its severity. The rule was dishonourable to the Directors who had passed it. Mr. Stuart begged of members to come down to the consideration of principles. He must attribute good intentions to the mover of this instruc- tion, and that he has the public good now at heart, but a Legislature in granting money to an icknowledged useful institution, is not to interfere in its management, far less to enter into the private quarrels of certain individuals. An allusion had been made to a rule passed clan'lestinely this was a very great and serious change, and he should hop^ that the Hon. member was wrong in the imputation he had made, through a too easy credence to the statements of individuals acting under bad faith. Mr. Valliebes stated the question before the House was to know if an aid should be granted to a public institution. If such an institution is useful to all classes of society, the House ought not to refuse assistance from the public purse j but does this institution limit its benefits to a particular class of society ? No such statement has been made, but only that the medical gentlemen shall be of a particular description, and perfectly qualified to render assistance to the public. If the institution declared that its benefits were to be extended to Protestants, and not to Catholics— to Iriphmen and not to Canadians, there might be some reason to pause ere aid was granted, and to insist upon their rescinding such a rule. Such a rule is in favouk of the poor, and the founders of that institution bad a right to choose the individuals, who were to take charge of the inmates, and who could render the best assistance to the afiBicted. If an individual wishes to give charity, can he not be allowed to select the servants of his bounty ? Are the poor taken care of? Does the Hospital afford assistance to all those who present themselves ? The answer is affirmative. Those individu-ils who are charged with the direction of the institution are not to be depri"- ed of a vote in the nomination of the individuals to take charge of the most important department thereof. As the institution does not in any manner exclude Canadians or other individuals, as medical men, but merely states that they shall be qualified in a certain manner, he con- sidered it the duty of the House to support an institution, and to see that it conferred the benefits upon the public which its supporters declare it does. There are other institutions in the country to which aid has been extended, and with whose rules the House had never interfered. The sum usually given is small, and he saw no reason why the Directors should not have a perfect controui over their own regulations. ' !ll ■ i4 IS Montreal General Hospital. m I ;ii '■ Mr. QuBSNEL concurred in the opinion expressed by the Solicitor GiifERAL, and was disposed to vote against the instruction now proposed. But the learned gentleman probably overlooked the circumstance that if the Montreal General Hospital owed its origin to the munificence and zeal of individuals, the other Hospitals there -were equally the fruits of the liberality of private persons. The Hospital had a right to establish its own rules, and the House would recollect, some years ago, the refusal of the Ladies of the Hotel Dieu to render accounts for their expenditure, stating that it was contrary to the rules of tlieir institution. But with the Montreal General Hospital, the most minute details of the expenditure — of the inralids admitted, and cured, and of the persuasions of those ad- mitted, were always laid before the public. Mr. li. Laouecx said that the motion entered into details, wMcb more properly would form a subject of deliberation of the Special Committee. The instruction should be rather to enquire what are the rules aud regula- tions of the institution. Mr. BouRDAOEs remarked, that as long as an institution continued prirate, and required no public assistance, it miffht make what rules it pleased, but when it prays for an aid from the public, it is but prudent to examine the rules of such institution. If a member sees therein an odious exception, repugnant to the feetings of the people, it is his duty to eodeavonr to have that rule altered. Dr. Labrie was willing to withdraw his present motion, but in reply to an Hon. member (Vallieres) who thought that British diplomas neces- sarily carried weight and that their owners were best capable to render assistance to die public, he must say he could not concede such a pro- position. That such diplomas were highly honourable, he would not deny ; fe«t to say that those who had them not, should not enter the Hospital, was Incorrect in principle. The House should not sanction a rule which excluded any particular description of medical men. He withdrew the motion and substituted another, which required the Committee to examine the rules and regulations of the Corporation. Mr. Christie presented the petition of Lt. Col. Vasaalf wMch he bad read last night, in a more formal shape ; claiming a balance of i^90. Mr. Ogden gave notice of bis intention to more that an address be pre- sented to H. E. praying that the power of franking as enjoyed by the members of the House of Commons, be conferred on the members of that House during each Session, and for 40 days before and after each proro- gation. In looking into this matter, he found that till 1735, it was an unsettled question how far it was one of the privileges of the members. In that year an act had passed, which conferred by enactment the privi* First Report on Grievancet: 43 OUCITOR proposed, ce that tf inifieence the fruits establish lie refusal enditure, with the iditure — hose ad- !ri<^ more immittee. id regula- continued t rules it : prudent herein an is duty to n reply to las neces- to render icii a pro> not deny ; Hospital, ale whicli hdrew the examine ich he had £90. 98S be pre- ed by tiie ersot* that ach prorO' , it was an members. ; the privi* lege which he now wished to extend to this country, and that could only be done by an address to H. E., to obtain that measure in England, Mr. Stuart presented a petition from certain inhabitants of the city and county of Quebec, praying for improvements on fhcir roads, by Macadamisation. Referred. A message from the Administrator was received, with the award of the arbitrators, for determining the proportion of duties, to be paid to the Province of Upper Canada, for the four years succeeding July 1, 1828; and recommending some remuneration to Mr. Maitland, the umpire called in by the arbitrators on their aisagreement. The award determines the proportion for those four years to be one fourth annually. ' Dr. Labrie brought up the first report of the Committee on the York and Montreal petitions. In substance it was that H. Griffin, Esq. the Returning Officer for the West Ward of Montreal did not take the oath required by law, was thereby unqualified to act as such, and had there- fore failed in his duly — that Robert Froste, Esq. who hnd administered that oath as Justice of the Peace to the said Henry Griffin, had also failed ill his duty — and that though the qualifications of (he suid Henry Griffin were not valid, yet that the election of members for the said West Ward ought to be maintained as valid, because the freedom of election was in no manner impaired, and that a contrary decision would leave it in the power of the Government, having particular views in injuring the elective franchise relative to certain members, to appoint unqualified Returning Officers, so as to render such elections void at future periods. Dr. Labrib moved that the House do now resolve Itself into a Committee of the whole on the said report. Mr. Stuart stated that he had very great objections to pioceeding on the said report, of which the House had no notice, nor could have any cognizance of its contents. The matters contained in the report were of great importance, and it was certainly contrary to all principles of justice to hurry on the matter as proposed. Dr. Labrib remarked that the report related only to one of the griev- ances complained of in the petition, and certainly not one which required much consideration. The oath required by law, and the oath taken by Mr. Griffin, were only to be compared together. Mr. Ogden said that no objection io a delay till to-morrow could reasonably be refused. The report contains charges of no trifling nature, which it ought to be the duty of every hon. member to investigate, but F :| 11 44 Ftrst Revort on Grievances, m. before any decision could be comie to, it would be necessary to examine the oatb taken by Mr. GriflRn, to look at the whole election-law, to examine minutely ere censure was passed on respectable individuals ; not to gallop through a report which scatters imputations of a serious nature. Mr. L. Laoueux saw no reason to press on the matter before a Com- mittee of the whole. Mr. BouanAOES deemed the question Tery simple. Among the gricT- ances, of which the petitioners complained, was one that the returning officer was not qualified to act as such. The oath he had taken, and that prescribed by law, were not conformable, and that was all the House were called upon to decide. Mr. Stuart deemed it most extraordinary In the Committee to come forward and ask of the House to consider their report and accept of their resolutions with eyes blindfolded— arms crossed, and like a flock of sheep, more especially as the report implicates the character and respectability of individuals. When, upon one occasion, he had been concerned in a measure which tended to implicate individuals, nearly a year was allowed to elapse before the consideration was pressed upon the House, and would the House now refuse a few short hours of deliberation. He was sorry to feel himself called upon to express himself strongly, but in his opinion the present motion was an insult to the good sense of the House. Mr. Vallieres hoped the House were not so lost to all sense of justice as to punish an individual twice for the same oflFence— -to punish th« Returning Officer here by their censure, and also by rendering him liable to penalties inflicted by the law. As to the reflection upon Mr. Froste he never could agree. Justices of ths Peace in thin country did not generally read the substance of the affidavits, which they administered, and he could not see how, in reason, he could be in any manner punished for what he had done. He wished for time to examine the whole affi»ir, nor could he see any reason for precipitation. If they were near the end of a sessions, it might be well, but when they had months before them, he deemed it wrong to proceed rashly, to injure the character and reputa- tion of two individuals of the first respectability, to vote them guilty of a breach of the privileges of the House, without allowing delay to members to prepare themselves for the question. Dr. Labrxe stated that his reason for bringing the question forward at this period was that to-morrow was the last day for receS'-ing petitions for contested elections, nnd by their decision this evening upon the validity of the election of the West Ward of Montreal, not only depended a point of privilege, but also the effect the invalidity of the oath of the Returning Officer would leave upon the election itself, which might become null and void. First Report on Grievances. 45 Mr. Stoart said it was according to the strict ralen of jmtice that a man, howerer unknown to that House, however low in rank or station ia society, should be heard ere he was condemned. It was insulting to the dignity of that House to be called upon to judge a question, of the merits of which they had not time to consider. He hul implicit confidence in the talents and the rectitude of the memt>crs of the Committee, but he -wished to examine the nature of the report which they had made. How could it be expected that he should be versed in all the matters of the report from a simple reading thereof, and how ooaid the House conscien- iiously judge thereupon i The Solicitor General stated that hurrying on the mrasgre to night could in no manner decide the validity of the election. If that election was valid as he believed it to be, they must declare the Returning Officer sufficiently qualified to act as such, and if he was not qualified the election must undoubtedly be null. The House could not pretend to render valid what was declared invalid by an act of the three branches of the Legisla- ture. To-morrow was the last day for the reception of petitions against elections, and it was yet to be seen whether that election was complained against. There were other interests concerned in the jiresent question than the return of the Speaker, who had the honour to represent two places, and while he (Mr. O.) asked for delay, he begged to impress upon their minds that they were a deliberative body. On a division there appeared 17 for, and 15 against a Committee of the whole, which was accordingly formed, Mr. Clouet in the chair. Dr. Labrie moved that Henry Griffin, Esq. the Returning Officer for the West Ward of the city of Montreal, had not taken the oath required of him by laTf> and had thereby failed in the performance of his duty. Mr. Vallieres stated that, on referring to the 4th clause of (he elec- tion act, the Returning Officer was required to reside in the county, city, or borough, for which he acted, and in the form of the oath appended to the oath there was some slight variation in terms. The oath which Mr. Griffin had taken he deemed conformable to the letter of the law, for he swore that he resided in the city of Montreal — a fact admitted. If the schedule or form was in any manner confused or indistinct, the House should recollect the rule for the interpretation of statutes, to explain one part by another. The law did not in any manner say that an individual resident in the East Ward is unqualified as Returning Officer for the West Ward, if otherwise qualified — the law only required that he should reside in the city, and be qualified for the Ward for which he acts. He was not aware of any other law in existence which could induce the Com- mittee to come to the singular conclusion prayed for. He therefore moved in amendment, that the oath taken by H. Griffin, Esq. as Returning Officer, was in cooformity with the law. ' )» 1 ^m ililllf m 46 Returning Officers. Mr. Papinbau could not conceive how a Returning Officer could take upon himself to explain an oath, prescribed to him by law, or to alter, in any way, its express letter. If he finds himself unqualified for the situation to which he has been appointed, it becomes the character of ar. honest upri^ it man, having a respect for his character, rather to submit to any penalty the law may inflict upon his non-compliance, than to com- mit a premeditated peijury. The law, he conceived, imperiously re- quired that the Returning Officer should not only be qualified to vote, but should also be resident in the quarter for which he acted. He was certainly much surprised at the opinion advanced by the learned member opposite^ (Vallieres.) Mr. Valliebes stated, that he looked at the statute as in the whole. In regarding that statute, he also endeavoured u »* out the intention of the Legislature when passing the law. By the 41M clause, the qualification required was residence in the cily only. By the oath ap- pended, the House would find all the words in the disjunctive *' county, city, quarter of city, division of city, or borough," why ' Uhe word cioperate in every equitable and constitutional mea- sure, which may be submitted to it as desirable by the inhabitants of Upper-Cunada. 11. That this House has seen with sentiments of the highest satisfaction and gratitude, the declaration of the willingness of His Majesty's Govern- ment cheerfully to accede to the desires which the Assembly has so fre^ quently expressed during the last twenty years, of having an Agent in England to indicate the wishes of the inhabitants of Lower Canada ; and that it is expedient to provide for such an appointment without delay. 12. That so soon as the scheme ia contemplation of His Majesty's Go- vernment for the permanent settlement of the financialconcerns of the Province shall have been made known and considered, it may be expedient to provide some adequate indemnity to such persons as were placed on the civil establishment of this Province with salaries, prior to the year 1818, and whose offices may have been found to be unnecessary or require to be abolished. 13. That this House will cheerfully concur in any measure which may ^pear most likely to be successful in effectually removing the great in- Resolutions on the Message. b5 rmwn « 5 It .' by grantees or holders of land obtained from the cortJ; wht; i.rr ""°'f '^^ ^^^^^^^^o^, « ^"''tted without .^ Ste» sich L*^ r^ ""^ important information contained in thj f«? h?^K!r. ^'^S?"""* Churches, at least much might be compressed for the whole would be too great. He would not desire &nv thin^ p^ cermng great political questiom, io be curtailed, and ^ouTd^ be the w o desire that any essential information should be^ithhe^d The bodl rf the population ought to be made fully acquainted, not only with the valuable report of the Comr^ittee, but with the greJt mass of ercellent tant part of which ought to be curtailed. ^ «fh?« JP^kJ^ '^il""*!??*' °^*'^ ^''"*'** "^P*""* '" *he same light as most now^fi tI"*"' ^l^ ' r ^'T"' astonished at the extraordinary moti^ now made. The report and evidence constituted part of the journals of this House, and were accessible to all the members ; they are not there- fore wanted by members, and motives of economy; ,k.; so mudi th^ order of theday dictated that the country should be saved the Zrmous expense of pnnUng 400 Copies-400 Copies ! that would make 8 cTpies a piece for each member -what were they to do with them ? But if the information to be derived from the cndence, vaunted as so valuable and useful, was so much required by the country, let it be given by some speculative printers-let them undertake it : Ve want no more than one copy each, which we are sure of having-he cared not by whom it was printed, or who derived profit from it, so that the expense, which foJ translating and printing could not be less than j^lOOO, were iot entailed on the conntry-we, who talk of economy and cut down every«alary, and retrench every office, are now called on to spend a^lOOO of the public money, for printing and circulating papers which were far from beL of the value put on them by some persons ! * Mr, Laqueux declared it to be most important for the Province that rir.?^,'!^"-V?r^'^ ^' ^""^ °"^ ^^^'^y ^"°«"- ^e ought not to regret « 1000, if the expense were so much, laid out for giving general information. The learned Solicitor General deceived himtelf much re- specting the retrenchment of salaries, which was not so much the object sought after, as the redress of abuses. The learned gentleman Was now »vflT^\^ ^'■^^* '''^^•**^^*^ ^°'" e«onomy-why was he not so before, when lavish expenses were incurred by the Executive without Pnv LeeisI lative authority? It was required, that each member should ' be e^ fwnn.I **^« ^.t«ff t'°n a«d information of bis constituents, to send two or three copies down to them. The whole country, from one end 1° u^u' '^°"^'' ''^ informed of the manner in which their representa- tives had been received in Enrfand. It would not be doing Ccfto their constitueats, -nor to the Mother Country, not to let all be ucquaiut! 'I %\ II' !> ll III i 58 Beport of the Canada Committee. ed both with the meritorious exertions of those to whom they had con- fid*ed their cause, and also with the fact, that whenever, and whatever grievances or representations they complained of or made to the British Government, would be promptly and justly heard and redressed. In- stead of 400, he wished 1000 copies might be circulated, that each one might read, as in a book of devotion, and instruct their children to venerate that Empire, which had only to know of abuses and complaints, to redress them. Mr. Ogden said that if all the constituents of the hon. members must read these documents, schoolmasters must be sent along with them, to teach them to read first ; he doubted whether 400 of them could be found able to read. With regard to the report of the Committee, it had been called an imperishable monument j it was one that, in his opinion, might very soon crumble into dust— for a report, we know, when it comes before the House of Commons, may be wholly destroyed. It was an exparte statement, and contained shameful misrepresentations. Mr. Proclx, in reply, remarked, that reproaches as to the ignorance of the population in Canada, came with a very bad grace from those who caused it. To whom must that ignorance be ascribed ? Only ask who is in fault ? The cause of whatever ignorance prevailed, which was, however, very far from what had been insinuated by the learned gentleman, was, that none but Protestant schools would be granted or supported ; it was, therefore, praiseworthy in those who professed a dif- ferent religion to refuse having their children so educated. To revert to the question— 800 copies ought to be printed in lieu of 400. Economy here must be considered as nothing when set in opposition against the public good, which was all. With regard to the Canada report, which the learned gentleman had stigmatized as exparte, and foretold it would soon crumble to the dust ; such idead might also crumble away, as others of the same nature had done before them, and soon would fall. But he -would say, that the prevailing and general opinions, both in Great Bri- tain and here, were proved to be th" same. They were principles and opinions that contained, intrinsically, the power of durability— and op- portunity should be given to the country duly to understand and appre- ciate them. Mr. Valliebes, said this report had a singular destiny — it was repre- sented as having two aspects, and the learned gentleman chose to look at present at the worst alone. It might, on the other hand, be said, that the printing and sending these documents to the country parishes must tend to promote education — as such would be the eagerness for it, that many would learn to read on purpose to understand it. Mr. Ogden must take the privilege of defending himself. He had beeu charged with inconsistency in both recommending and disapproving The Governor* s Message. 59 on?fi.?rr*** The«5 were parts he approved, and others he condemned^ h^i ?„ „ 1 "^Tc^^^ production of exparte statements and evidence, ifnJir* • r5 ^''?' T^ ''''''=5 ^^ ''""•^ «PP°»« the printing of, ai io.f wf. "I'l^*:? '""t^^dof to inform—The exparte natSre of the re- port was produced by the infamous manner in which the petitions and ZlT^^rT^^A^tJl^^^i "P'. °° '^^'''^ •* ^'•^ ^"""ded. Midnight meet" ings were held—" Mr. Speaker you may laugh"— (Cries of order, order,-in8ult to the Chair, 8[c, and some tumult,) Mr. OoDEN went on, and declared that no popular clamour should pre- vent him from expressing his sentiments. His objection was not so much J^».»?l?\P*''*'°^T*".?^^®*PP'*»"^*'» »'"**•' ^^^ evidence, in which Jh, f t'T.u'' ""'', ^^""^^I *"'"""** *° disbelieve. Now let us send all this forth to the people, and we give a solemn sanction to falsehood, and mirespresentation ; false charges are carried among the people, who are not e-ongh instructed to appreciate their nature, or underataSd their ten- fe Jii^' '* "^Ifi be necessary for the people to have their represen- t^tiyes at their right hand to explain to them what all this meant. (During great part of the debate, a good dejil of clamour existed.) After afew more words from Mr. Neilson, and Mr. Viger, the motion ^•as carried by a majority of 35 to 1, Mr. Ogden alope voting againsUt THE «0V12KN0R'3 MES8AU*;» The House in Committee, proceeded upon the resolutions oflFered by Mr. NFitsoK.* Mr. Raymond in the Chair. ^ In proposing the second resolution (the first having been unanimously Xchth?«^ Mr Neilson referred to those parts of H. E.'s message J which this resolution was intended to apply. It was known to all the members that the pretensions set up by the late Administration to the disposal of a portion of the Provincial Revenues without the controul of the Legislature, was the sourpe of all the disputes and difficulties that had IITT\'a i! "'^* pretension be persisted in, he could not see how any end could be put to those disputes and difficulties. He hoped that Jt Z? i^S^'^'^'^y ''^P' both in England and here, in a diiferent light from that which appeared on the face of H. E.'s message, and that all wodd IZZ Vu' 'kT'"''°" *° ^'''"^ '^' C*"*d* CommUtee had comeywho d thrclntV"!^^"'' '"''""^ ""^'^^ ^'"^•"'^^ P^S'^t to be under the controuj Mr. Sthart said the silence of the members on the opposite side of the P°"««' '"dicated a belief of their being sure of success-they did not For these resolutioni vide ante. H irTl /';; ir. ir i.i' 'i 3j ^i Besolutiota an the Metsage. 60 «,i„k pK.p« .. support *^ -;t"; n^rr^to^ 1" u^" no reasons, but w""^" ''"« j^ f^^ut to tote according to our own en ffreat The resolution states, that it is possime w I"'" , . our public documents, le, administration. I am not true that ^^'S c^^'^J^^^ ^*;^f,jVP„7b„t it is my duty to resist any no ^oPP^'te;- of any past ad'nin' ^^ ,^.^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^7^^ administration^ aspersion-the claim wa set j^^ ^^^ ^^^^^ .^ ^^ ^^^^^ SltXTern^e unTe^^^^4^^^ -nst be applied to the purposes o tnat the revenue "" , j^ appropriation of the crown. That the general adm"»s rat on but by h^aPP P .^ ^^^ ^^^ .^ ^^ ^^^„^^, is the l-*7f"^*°^/;/,,7iJfer the constitutional act-a reservation dlrrctwTxdfd'ing^^^^ 'f ''f °P'"T °' *'' ^'''"* directly excmaing ^ J' . » . ' , ^ • ^^^^^ t is and remains law,— •'■I^f nt'arneSotLl u by he'H^use be per.is.cd io, our diffieol- so lliat if 'l^'' P" '"' ,°%u' I P., iJ i„ f„u force, .iriae and eirett,-.ach it tte'law "°Ll ste gI..".- t »».. apply' to ,he Legi.la.ore for .11 ?.fi?eocies»hich that portion of the revenue »ill not reach, .he only i, a discusMon, h^""' ™'„'5 i^Vh, way of remo.ing popular dlfflcol- :°rX'mcr,terx°.«e:i;:ti..[o it, Thi,f,Ueou, po,iti.« Resolutions on the Message. 61 must operate injuriomly on the cause of the country; let us savM w« ought, that It is only by the repeal of that act that we can be placed in statu quo. This I hare always maintained, and conceive that it is the only mode consistent with the prerogatives of the crown and the rights of tne people. 1 would, moreover, ask, what degree of politeness, courtesy, Iv Jr"! "^."f V^^" ^'^ ^"""d in 'topping short in the road to conciliation oy entering into theoretical disputes relative to the act 14th Geo. 111." Th6 learned gentleman concluded by stating, he had eipressed himself but Bhortly, because he knew it was of no use to endeavour to convince the majonty. Mr. CuviLLiER said, that it was surprising, that after the question of the appropriation of the revenue had occupied the thoughts and debates of the House for so many years, it should be thought fit. at so late day, to recur to pnnwples which be conceived had long been exploded. When the act of 14th Geo. III. was passed, the country was too poor to supply the deficiencies in the revenue, and it is only a few years since it has men to such a state as to be able to provide for its own wants-during that tiore, it would have been absurd to repeal that statute-it was the only, provision we had— but he would contend that it is virtually repealed, not only by the act of 1778, but by others. For a long time, supposing that it was necessary that that act should be repealed, we may be said to have beeri, as it were, in the miiwrity, and though we desired not to con- fide the disposal of our revenue to the governors, we could not help ourselves. 1 he non. gentleman then referred to various acts, and entered into numerous details and statements of accounts, deducing the conclusion that the act of 14th Geo. III., was de facto repealed. He enlarged upon the uncertainty of the amount of revenue derived from that act, and the impropriety of granting a permanent sum of ^20,000 per annum, as was now demanded, out of a fund that was so very uncertain. As to the fines and penalties, the amount of which is stated at 4 or ^500— if we open the statute book at the 46th Geo. III., it will be seen that their amount 18 at the disposal of the Legislature, and to argue otherwise, would be treating the Assembly as boys and children. With regard to the scheme mentioned in the message for the permanent settlement of the financial concerns of Lower Canada, he recommended that such a scheme should be proposed by the Canadian Legislature, so as to conquer all difficulties, and make arrangements to leave the disposal of the whole of the revenue of the Province, to the country. Mr. ViGEB, in an animated speech, spoke to the general principles upon which the proceedings of the House were grounded. Honourable mem- bers had told them of errors, mistakes, and misrepresentations, but let the whole go forth to the people, the people can judge for themselves, and it IS a duty to instruct them fully. It was impolitic and improper to make invidious distinctions ; the people ought not to be divided j it is the lift % ■ml i \ tv^ : 'j' J I! i' f-i , I 1 1 -J i 1 Resolutions on the Mes::t^e. misfortaoe of slaves, that the rights and qualifications of one part of society separate them from another, and all ought to be put upon an equal footing in that respect. Where that is not the case, nominal liberty only caa exist, and a slavery to laws not emanating from themselves, is as much slavery, as under absolute despotism. From the time of the conquest, till 1774, the rights of people were not respected : in that year, they were first acknowledged, and the declaratory act of 1778, went far in confirminsj them ; but that act was one intended for the whole British Colonial Em- pire, and not for Loww Canada alone. The imposition of all duties save those that related to commerce, was renounced ; and the disposal of all the revenues of all the Colonies, was left to their own Assemblies. Are not then our claims founded on the positive terms and assurances of the declarations and statutes of the King and Parliament of Great Britain ? And it can not be believed that these will be denied or evaded. We have now experience enough in Legislation, to do our duty to ourselves and to the empire ; and pretensions that are contrary to law, to justice, to honour, and to expediency, will not now be persisted in. It was in 1791, that we were first put in possession of all the rights of British subjects. It is true, we were not then sufficiently enlightened for their full enjoy- ment ; but government, trusting to futurity, granted us the means of arriving at what we are now, and fears ought to be needless under the declaratory act, passed to dissipate all jealousies between the mother country and its colonial possessions. On the subject in debate, we have the opinion of Ministers, the laws of the country, the declarations of His Majesty, and the report of the Commons, in our favour. But other con- siderations pressed themselves upon him. We weie the descendants of a nation among whom the rights of the people were not respected. Let us contrast our situation with that of the other French Colonies, and to what cause can the calamities that have befallen them be attributed, but to the despotism that was practised there. We, on the other hand, have become free British suhjects, and all we call for, are the rights of such ; with the example before them, can it be the interest of government to say to the inhabitants, you shall not have those rights which the other subjects of the empire possess ? this would be a doctrine not only inimical toliberty, but eventually injurious to the empire. Do not the people here know that they are not actually and truly in the full enjoyment of those rights, to which they are entitled ? and may not this knowledge, if those rights are longer withheld, sooner or later excite feelings, the consequences of which can not be looked at with apathy. This is a great and important consideration for the British government. It should be their study, not by depriving the people of their rights, but by confirming thfcm to them, to give energy and stability to the Canadas, and thereby cement and promote the interests of both Great Britain and its possessions here. To do other- wise would be to give to the Executive, the power to crush the people, and turn the mass of them into slaves to foreigners. Our attachment and tteiolutions on the Message* loyalty to Great Britain, are now at the height, let them not be weakened Colonies to herself; and Canada, from its situation, was of more Im nor aX*'"-'! ",7 °*'^'-, "V''*""^ "°* ^"« ctende'd hTs obBrvatirs^Lny ; fSmiL; LC'^'s.^H r^'x^^u'^ "«»•* *''^'' "»' «^««° violated b;t!J late administration. He believed the ^alue of those principles and their bearings, were well understood throughoct the count v»n3 o^fi. k much edacation was not to be expected^under the eS 7' ""i; ,^^^^^^^^^ nLw'r^"'° K^ listened to the reasonings and discussion! uponThose I' portant topics, by many of the common people, which yielded not mZ^I oftuemost intelligent and enlighteued'me'n. ' Let uf "^ er and ^usta J h.?fo; H?.nr !?°^ "P]^* arguments employed by the honourable mem. of the BS'^f'!-' ""'^.^^^t "? a long detail of the different Acts boTh ot the British Parliament and of the Provincial Leflislatnr. *i,a* k«.- the question of the application of the re^^l t*d The^K^^^ if?" XTe pL'IWp";-"'^ ^epe^l of that act, and upon the incompetency of the Provincial Parliament, to pass any act that was contrary to any ac^ of the British Parliament. From all he had collected on the llZli It was his deeded opinion that the act of 14th Geo. III., was aw ' and tha the whole appropriation of all the sums claimed by tircrown 'to allot to Se'nrtfon of' the CaLT r' " ^^ ^^^^j*^ ' "^'^ lookinglt thrrecom! menaation of the Canada Committee, and the propriety of the whole revenue being at the disposal of the Legislature, his ^ote^should be liven 10 a way to advance that object. """um dc given Mr OcDEN had sat ten years in the House, and bad heard the same cJii^t •"♦r"^ "'"'■r'^ V'l ^S'**"-^"* ^« ^^'""t sorry to foUowt^e country in the course they had pursued in resorting to Great Britain, for the question now in agitation had there ^een decided against the preten. JiSSllre't^eT''^;. ^ft" cursorily perusing the mi'nutes of evKe laid before the Committee of Parliament, he could not but feel that the failed to produce the conviction they desired. The Committee of Parlia ment had declared the 14th Geo. Ili to be law ; as to^^the opfnion exp es ed by them immed ately following that declaration, that it S beTe for the Crown to give up the whole revenue to the controul of the Legis- lature that would go for little. Be it so or not, it was the House of Com- mons alone could decide, who alone could confirm that opinion, for it was only the power that made that law, that had power to take it away. An opinion can not alter or influence the law, and until the House of Com- W I '^°^^''? '*?. '*.''" ^"^ """^^ '•^'"^'" '*'^- The hon. member for Kent, had made a lusion to the rights of British subjects ; but there were duties as well as rights, and the duties of subjects is to obey the law. If .1 ''PI m I ■ ."J M Retolutions on the Message. 111 m i I f enquiring into the expenditure, and of refusing supplies if not satisfied. As lie conceived the words of the resolution meant the direct controul of the whole, he should vote against it. The resolution was passed by a majority of 34 to 4. ^ Upon the 4th resolution, Mr. Stuart said that this was also excep- tionable. They were not called upon to entf r info the question ; there was nothing in the message that required a direct answer of this nature. It is not called for by the occasion, nor growing out of any circumstances before them. It is neither one thing nor the other. It goes to lay down a general principle which is not required to be proposed. Mr. Vallieres stated that it was called for, inasmuch as several acts had been passed by the British Parliament, which interfered with the internal concerns of the Province. The tenures act was one. That by which Parliament endeavoured to regulate the disputes between Upper and Lower Canada, which indeed might be justified in other points, was passed with great want of information. Parliament certainly did it for Hesoluiiom on the Menage. aml thcbest, but (hey misunderstood, nnd were mWnformcd. as to tlm in- terests of both Proviacea, and we have ever since been liable to di.pJtT llicactof 1814 WU8 contradictory to the declaratory act, and Z ?^it clause of the constitutional act, hud been lost fli^ht of. Other in«tnn nught be brought forward. The nece«lty of thhnterferencnf "i?. flH- tish Parliament with our concerns, had ceased with circumstance and where attempted, had embroiled metiers instead of doin. irooJ NtnC here wae cause sufflcient why we should tell the Imperial Parliament whl» .s proposed by this resolution. Suppose any act was to be ZZ\ Theri directly agamst (he constitutionel act, or any par? of it— wohW . . J^ egal ? Certainly not. The constiluti'on in aU its pari. XTho^ J^l^ In perpetuity, and could not be taken away. 1 va2 onlvin .?v? hryettVurd"'""^""^^''"^ authority^nsmade3 an^d'^o^rj^U Mr. Stuart only rose (hat silence might not be considorPfi n. „„ . cnce. There were many objects relative to tt Province wL^^^ r.^ • "l to be regulated by the Imperial and not the PrLiSi; ture^!^^^^^^^ what the precise line was, that was to be drawn nn,.i,i «^* 6'°'""'re out That line had divided the'opinions of nien Xh^ mo ? brni.anjr'.*"""^* trating minds. Among otLrs. Lord Chat il Td fii ke w./ \Tl' instanced. Burke felt the extreme danger of mcJa.Scal no iH.. ^ statesmen were not agreed on this pointidon't iTt us therennn ^ 1^7 the precise limits are-it is unnecessary~it is more-it I H„il ^''' ti ZT T"J"'r^ii^^'''"« ^' theUntalTn" une^amplK:;: tion bestowed by tbe Mother Country upon the representatiors mad« rom Canada, it is both ungracious and perilous-it may put n In^^y the obtainmen of redress for those grievanr., that have been complainld of. He would not here introduce any thing about the tenures act hU sentiments on which were well known, hut that we shouh have aU thai was right and just, all know we had the Kuarantee ..F HrJHaK i. , British truth. The case of the former B^SsrSc^l^ nfw 1^.^ 1?^ States, was far diflferent-they were called on to bca thdr fuTl nro.^ '"* of the expenses of the Empire, without having any -o e i" V1C\T funds put of which they had to pay-the resufts were well knownfS what have we to pay ; nothing but for own local benefit-do we p«ran. thing for the powerftil protection of a miehtv Emnir*. ? Ho «^! ^ *^ thing towards the thouLnds and thousS ^ Sers and th7 II^^ housand ships of war, that guard the Empire, maintain its dtnitv 21 interest, and protect British subjects in all part^ "f the globed W^ !;f Bntish subjects-it is a privilege equal to the citizens of ancient Rome rnm „ «".-Y 'T"^ part of the world, as they did, Civissum RomZu? o(Z. fT^ «"bject-touch but the hair of my head, and the bayonets war for wrr^' and thousands of soldiers and those thousand shS Lnn? • . !?ruP*^"°"""^» ^'"^^ ready to avenge the insult/^ He d.d not intend to have gone so far in the argument; but he had belj Vifi . y jM 66 Resolutions on the Message. X' ill i«J!; u F vP drawn to it, when he saw men loaded with great benefits itill cmlttg. Look across the line, look at the Americans — see what taxes they pay— kow different in that respect is their situation with ours. The 4th resolution was passed by a majority of 34 to 4. The 5th resolution, Mr. Stuart asserted was false in principle* or if not, yet all general propositions are dangerous. Although it may be generally true that interference in the internal affairs of a country is impolitic, there may be cases that may demand it. The precise line has not been fixed, and could not be fixed. Mr. Neilson observed this was merely the expression of the HouSe, that all interference was to be deprecated, especially at the present junci ture. The resolution was moreover in conformity with the precise words of the report of the Canadian Committee. This resolution was passed by the same majority. The 6th resolution was passed unanimously. The 7th was passed, without any discussion, by a majority of 34 to 4. On the 8th, Mr. Ogden observed it was too general, as it alludes to the application of all the public money, and then also alludes to that of the 14th Geo. III. There could be no objection to grant bills of indem- nity to those, who under the calls of necessity had appropriated the public money without any authority, but it was wrong that bills of indemnity should be required for the making use of that which had already been permanently appropriated. Mr. Stuart's principal objection was, that this resolution conveyed erroneous impressions. Its construction might extend too far. It is true that, the different branches of ihe Government not being agreed, the necessity existed, in order that the whole machine might not be stopt, that the public money should be made use of ; but then annual reports were made of such applications, and distinctions were required to be drawn. The resolution was in terms, perhaps formally true, but vir- tually untrue. Mr. Neilson said, that whatever necessity might exist for the illegal application of the public money, all was to be ascribed to the Executive, It was because the bills were refused to be passed that appropriated the money. Mr. Stuart, in reply, said, that it was the manner of appropriating the money that the parties differed upon. Who was right or who was wrong ought not now be enquired into, that difference existed, and the neces- Hesoluiions on the Menage. to L?h Zuer? t Jrn^^^ '^i" neceMUywa»jurtly attributable ^dS^LZVXs^JtS^T^^ '""'"''•"« "P objectionable bil^ eetUed all one way. "'"erences, but it seemed as if they must be Mr. VAi,LiERKg.— '«WealI know that the laws ofnccesnitv m...t\^ We know th« F .*' **°' ''"'^ ^**'** ''"«*'» *" ^ave been done h- o E want "o Uk ^r„". 7vf ''"'" "°^P*"^'* **^ "''' ^•*»>°"t authc.ay/ bu '"e r" ' **^*f fyPP"ea ; to loolt at the accounts, examine th<> nr-.nnm. -.* Items, and if such surpass the nece«,ity or not, ict accordip!r?v and ' prove, censure, or withhold approval, m the caJes ma^req^^^^^ '"^ "P" Mr. Stuart said the question of necessity was op« of fact Hp fo««.H the course now taking might occasion the reLrrence of the sime necSiTy^ The resolution was passed by am^ority of 34 to 4. The 9th and loth resoluUons were passed unanimously. On the 11th resolution, Mr. Ooden observed that he should h«v- objected to the term of twenty years being menUoneZ that during ^^^^^^ the Province had been desirous of having an agent in Eneland If Jln^J a period had elapsed, it was to be attributed to the Vnf rsLt Lai and obstmate course pursued by the Assembly, during a ffreTJ^ruTof th^^^ t.me, m proceeding by *' Resolutions- Lte^a o? by^S ^^i eJfn SL opinion, was justly resisted by the legislative CouncH. He would no however, insist on the inaccuracy of this resolution beiig removed and the resolution was passed unanimously. ^ ' *°° The 12th resolution passed unanimously. t«lSn ^^^ ^'*^ *'^'"« "'"'' ^'■- ^^^^^ »-°»e and said, this ouffht to be nterested in these resolutio;;s. Any thLg more t^nrwaTn:::? ot^^^ ed to the consideration of the Assembly. What ' are wr?n«Hl!h diions to the performance of duties? Wearedekri gThe nhabTtLrof he townships a proscribed people, put out of the paleVf the attS of inlv S„ *"'"' 1: *° *h"r::!«"t8, their wishes and their welfare "and^that only when we have subdivided them, according to our own pTeasurt •'Mi !' I i' if. 68 Resolufions on the Message. I- 1/ ' '* til they shall be heard, and the evils they complain of redressed. I declare they are an oppressed people— they have hitherto been denied the rights of legislation ; and now, before we will relieve them from the oppression they endure, we impose a condition which it is in our power to prevent compliance with* Mr. Neilson said, that great discussion had taken place respecting the townships. We only wish to know what they really want, and they would find in the House a ready disposition to grant all they could m reason desire. It was mere imagination in the learned gentleman to call them an oppressed people. But why distinguish between one part of the Province and the other, let all be equally represented, and justice would be done to all. Mr. VALLiEUESsaid, that .n this, as it were, separate district, in order to give satisfaction to the inhabitants, it had been thought proper to give thero a separate administration of justice, and after two years they were dissatisfied with it. We never have known what to do for them, because they had no authorised agents to express their wants and wishes. It was going blindly to work to legislate upon unauthorised representations and surmises. It was not becoming in the learned gentleman to call them a proscribed people, and represent them as out of the pale of our care ; we are anxious for their welfare, and want them to have a share in our deliberations, in which they have now no one legally appointed to speak for them. It was the interest of the country to have a satisfied, free, ■vigourous and prosperous body of men along the important border of the Province; without a due representation they could not be so, and there was a great necessity for passing laws to give it them. The 13th resolution was passed, by a majority of 34 to 4. An amendment was made in the 14th Resolution, which now stands as follows : — « That it is the desire of this House to take, as speedily as possible, every means in its power that the inhabitants of the townships, upon a subdivision of the counties in which they are situated, by Act of the Provincial Parliament, shall have a full and equitable representation in this House, of persons of their own free choice, and that the House will cheerfully concur in every measure particularly interesting to the town- ships, which may appear to be the moot desirable to their inhabitants, and the most conducive to the general welfare." It was then passed unanimously ; as was the 15th Resoloticr.. Upon the 16th Resolution, Mr. Stuart remarked, that it appeared to go beyond the occasion. The British Government had confined their Hesolutions on the Message. 69 present measures to objects of immediate necessity. By multiplying sources of discussion, we should run a risk of protracting the difficulties laboured under, and perhaps of creating anew the necessity respecting the application of the public money, which had been so much talked of. The Resolution was passed by a majority of 35 to 3,— and the Resolu- tion to present an address was then also carried. : the House then resumed, and Upon Mr. Neilson's motion for the con- currence of the House in the Resolutions, they were passed by the same majorities as in the Committee, excepting the 13th, which, as his objec- tion to it had been remo?ed by the amendment made in the 14th, Mr. Stuart said, he should no«r vote in favour of ; and excepting that for the address, upon which Mr. Ogden moved an amendment that the 2d, 3d 4th, 5th, rth, 8th, 13th, and 16th, Resolutions should be left out, which was negatived by a majority of 36 to 2. On this occasion, Mr. Stuart took the opportunity of stating hfs opinion that^ as the consideration of the Provincial Parliament was required upon the important topics contained in the message, the best course to have bt ii taken would have been to have gone in concurrence with the Legislative Council, and had a conference with them previously to sending up their Resolutions, which might be considered as the ultimatum of the Assem- bly. He had had an idea of moving a string of counter>resolutions, but considering it as labour in vain, he should abstain. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The House was chiefly employed in Committee on a bill to repeal and amend part of the act 36th Geo. III. for the safe custody and enregisterincr of all Letters Patent for waste lands of the Crown, &c. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, Dec. 9. Statements of the different Banks were laid before the House, and re- ferred to a Special Committee. The following petitions were presented :—<■ From the British and Canadian School Society of Montreal, praying an aid ; referred to the Committee on Education. — From Alexander Wood, Esquire, of Upper Canada, praying for a return of duties paid by him ia 1814, on goods imported direct from London to Upper Canada, — From John Lane, Esquire, praying an additional compensation for his services in the Provincial Secretary's Office. — From John Adams, Purveyor, praying an aid to enable him to meet the expenses attending his Survey of the ;itv9 it' I'f, f 'IQ w'-^l • i,! m Contested Election for William Henry, ci'.y and auburbs of Quebec. — From Wolfred NeUon, Esquire, member of the borough of William Henry, complaining of the conduct of James Stuart, Esquire, Attorney General, the unsuccessful candidate at the election for the said borough. The petition being read, Mr. Andrew Stuart could not quietly sit and hear the calumnious assertions contained in the petition. As far as hd was acquainted with the facts, he would say, they were what the cour- tesy due to the House must prevent him from stating in that forcible lan- guage which his feelings dictated. He would throw down his gage to the man who made such unfounded and pretended . (He was here inter- rupted by the Hon. Speaker, who reminded him that his language was unparliamentary.) He would not call those statements by the names they merited ; he would not do so in that House — but he would throw down bis gage (He was here again called to order by the Speaker.) He submitted, and would now dismiss every thing that might be considered personal, and be what we all ought to be— dispassionate and cool : This was a counter>petition intended to operate against that which had been presented against the election of the sitting member. If the facts are true, that petition must fall to the ground. The House can known nothing of whether they are true or false — nor would he enter farther into that ques- tion than to speak his conviction that they were altogether untrue. As to the abuse and vituperation so abundant in this petition, he cared not for it ; nor couid the House come to any conclusion without evidence was produced — and he firmly believed, that no evidence could be pro- duced. What belief might be placed by others in the allegations of this petition, be knew not — but this he knew, that the Attorney General was not capable of what was imputed to him in it ; this he knew as a man ; but could not know it as a lawyer ; — as a lawyer, however, he would say, that to present a petition like this, pending the discussion of that which was presented against the election ; to attempt ". justification by recrimination before the trial came on, was to prejud: the House, to prejudice the judges who were to sit upon it, who couid not enquire into the merits of the last petition, till the first was disposed of. The legal question was^ whether these matters should be the subject of a petition to the House or not ; he apprehended not ; for it would be fully open to the sitting member to enter into the whole matter, when his defence came on. The petition against him is of the same nature as that presented against bis own return for the Upper Town of Quebec* The question is, whether it would be light for him to present a petition against that which had been presented against himr He was satisfied it would not. He had no desire to resist enquiry. It wi>s well known he was a friend to enquiry in all things ; but when the petition against the sitting member came on, all these matters would or sliould come before the House ; and if he thought not, he htmself would itecond the motion for the reception of this peti- Administration of Justice. 71 cusea nas little chance of escape, unless through favour • Dreiudice aiul «W.c,... .h,Atl...iet h.h.dlhe.pp or.„„..V^'fVomp.,i„g .he d°f! =9 ra. p'^si I 'J EM' . mi Pip"; if* m{ III 7a Moraud's Petition, ferent systems of Judicature in diflferent countries ; and he must say that no other European nation had acquired, or seemed capable of acqumog, those correct principles of administration of justice which prevailed in England. Let us therefore follow them, and give vigour to our judica- ture by giving facility to its administration. On motion of Mr. Blanchct it was ordered that it be an instruction to the Committee on light-houses, to enquire into the expediency of erecting liffht-houses on the Pillars, Us Islets de Bellechasse, La Potnte St. Laurent, and other places in the River St. Lawrence below Quebec. The House in Committee on the vacant offices of the House, passed a resolution fixing the salary of the English translator at ^8200 per .nnum. The House in Committee on the Ordinance of the 25th Geo. III. cap. 2, passed a resolution, that the 38th sect, of tha O'd^^^P^^^* ;° ^° far L the same authorises the imprisonment by «««^«*7V!f ,h« rnuntrv beii.g a merchant 01 trader, is contrary to the common law of the country to the rules of justice, useless to commerce, and exti.mely injurious to the other branches of industry, and ought to be amended. The House in Committee on the vacant offices of the House, resolved :- that before filling any future vacancy, enquiry be made as to the neces- sUy of such officf, the amount of the salary and emoluments, and such salary to be fixed de novo at every change. In Committee of the whole House, on the report of the Committee to whom rs referred the petition of J. B. Moraud, a native of France, who ?ad served his usual term with a Notary, had resided more than seven years in the Province, and had been refused his commission, on account of being an alien, on which the Special Committee had reported they^*«"^« <»f "P': nL a bill should be passed to enable him to ^c* as a Notary.-After sime introductory remarks from Mr. Neilson, who had prr iuted the petition — Mr. Speaker Papineau rose and said, he had never seen a question, which, in its general bearings, was so highly important, and »'kdy to be productive of incalculable consequences, however trifling it ^ght appear as concerning an individual, introduced into that House so lightly and tith reconsideration. He was surprised to find that the weight of The question which it in fact agitated, had escape.l the penetration of the Committee. It was, in fact, a question of proscription, not on account of birrp ace or alienship, but on account of religion. , I" ages of ignoran e in ages which were, or ought to be, long gone by, al Churches and States hadleen intolerant, and people of the several r«»'«]°"i;?,7f^^!;;'^/d t secuting and proscribing, persecuted and proscribed. 1 his prevailed m the greatest part of Christendom, and intolerable persecution preceded Moraud' 8 Petition. 7S nee, la so he Struggle be ween bigotry and toleration. Tlie laws of England unfor- tanately partook too much of the same spirit. England, cfen at the pre- sent day, the country of liberty and religious tolenition, appeared, in this respect, even to be less enlightened than other European nations, if wo ISfhSfJ'"?- .^P**'"^ '^"^ It»>y '' ^*"^» '" England, dissenters frJm the established religion, whether Catholic or others, were under a certain ban, which deprived them of part of their rights as citizens, and as freemen. And here, in a countiy which form san important part of the Empire, and where all religious creeds are, and ought to be, not only tolerated, but equal in rights, it is attempted to introduce the restrictions and proscrip- tions of barbarous times. To sanction this, would, independent of politi- cal considerations, sap the foundation of the tranquility and property of hundreds of families. In a former age, England, which knew the advan- tage of populous and prosperous Colonies, to favour their growth, departed, with respect to them, from her own restricted system, and permitted the naturalization of all Protestant emigrants, no matter of what country, by the mere fact of residence. By this general law, which is here called forth Irom the grave, to operate in this individual case, a French Protestant wou d bo naturalized dejure merely by residence, whilst a French Catholic would be denied that privilege. But, practically, the laws for the natu- ralization of all Protestants, have never been enforced, nor could be, with- out destroying their very essence. When they were passed, England did not own any distant Catholic dependencies as she does at present. Capital and population ought to be introduced into this country ; and there is no reason why Catholic population and capital should be repulsed, as would result from a blind adherence to the letter of law, by which all foreigners aro required to take the sacrament in some Protestant Church. The obvious incongruity of this, defeating entirely the objects of the law, was the cause why it has never been acted on, or is practicable to be acted on. Intolerant principles and the desire to uphold the establishment of the Church of England, was, during the early days of the American Revolu- tion, one of the chief causes which brought on the crisis, and created great alarm throughout the Colonies. Strong endeavours were made by the Episcopalians to cause all of a contrary persuasion to be considered as disloyal and rebellious ; and nothing tended more to foment discontent and cement the union of the disaflfected, than this indiscreet attempt of the Church-men to proscribe dissenters. This, too, we have seen tried in Upper Canada ; but the people of Upper Canada have raised their voice against it—the attempt has been in vain, and will, it is to be trusted, never be repeated. Many absurd and incongruous laws appear in the historical records of nations ; but this which would exclude from this Colony, French Catholics, and admit French Protestants, if it can be con- sidered as in existence, is worst. It is null of itself— but it has never been in force ;— thousands and thousands of settlers have been received in all the British Colonies, and, without enquiring what was their religious creed, •It] n I fe, 74 Moraud's PetUion, ,1 I*: ha? e been admitted to a full partlcipatiun of the rights of BriUih lubjectl. Bat, particalarly as regards Canada, let us open our eyes. By sanctioning the maxim attempted to be adopted in this case, we should justly alarm the whole country. How many hare come into this country upon the faith of OoTemment that, as emigrants from any part of the globe, they were entitled to become settlers— hate purchased and settled lands — acquired property — sold, transferred, willed, or left it to their children — and now comes an old raked up law, a droit tCaubaine, that will sweep all away they have acquired, because it was not convenient or practicable to enforce it when tl^^y, or their ancestors, came in. In fact, by sanctioning this, we should tell them, ye are all aliens, and have no right either to the landed property you purchase, or that which you inherit from persons in this proscribed predicament. It is singular that it should have escaped the Committee, that laws which have become obsolete, which for more than 60 years have nerer been thought of, which Government bars neTer enforced, should be all at once brought forward, and that in a case where it seems so little required. ThatGoTernment never thought of them may be proved in numerous instances. Thare are members of the Councils, who are persons of foreign birt^h, whc hate not conformed to the requisi- tion of the law, and who have sot, as far as we know or believe, been required to go and take the sacrament before admittance to office. But, more still, the individual wliiose ! e.;n eye first saw this flaw in the pri- vileges of Mr. Moraud, one of the Prothonotaries of the Court, though he «aw the mote in another's, could not see the beam in his own eye. He is himself a foreigner, — he stands in the same predicament. He may be, and no doubt is, an useful member of society, but so may others be, and if one be excluded from a situation of public trust and emolument, because being a foreign Catholic, he can not take the sacrament in the Church of England, then let others be because they can not do so. More especially when we consider that Catholics are peculiarly and favourably situated here. The Catholic religion is not one that is merely tolerated,— it is an established religion, — acknowledged as such by the State, — and protec- tion and favour can not be refused to it, without a breach of public faith. It is not by favour^ but by right, the Catholic religion prevails here ; and if, by the operation of this law, foreign Catholics are not to be allowe J to be naturalised here, what is it but to say, though we are obliged to per- mit the Catholic religion, we will not allow of its increase more than we can help, and no addition at least shall be made to the Catholic popula* tion by emigrants from abroad. But, if it be good policy to draw emi- grants, to attract capital, labour, industry, and intellect, into a new country, such a system of restriction ought not to be suffered, particularly in a country where the exercise of every religion is free to all, why should we say, as we should, if we were to sanction the technical ob- jection made against the admission of this individual, it is not convenient to increase the population by the introduction of Catholic emigrants— it is Moraud's Petition. 75 the laws of war, ^.hlch\re paramo ntn^^eso' ^'.TZ:^ °"'*^' '''"*'' peal or contrad ct on. Ours U onlv nn« a.,* r ^^^g'S'a org without ap- gran.s the free exerd e o" t e reT«L of thet^ capitulations which goes farther, and declares that the RomaSr'l^'^"*. • ^ ''"^ "^ ^^*'"* sole established religion of the In^l „nH Vk p" ''"«'''" ''*^" ^^ <''" tolerated Supposinr^e'calU'Te /gi:"^ la^sof England, the King, though he Certainly c^n.r^'^KnZ'^^^ any thing contrary to those laws, may and does in S„^f ^ ' ^"^ places which his arms may conquer/make surh la' VT T^u^ '" "'« rals as the times and Lcurtancrmar^enuire' i^Hf/'' ««"- ^gislator in those cases, both by the law of naturLTn.! th i "/"'"'""« The capitulation, and the subleque rtlty oM763 VirV^"""""^- and binding as they are upon the'crow^ " Igla. d?f;,d Zn [hi ^""^ pie of the province, annulled, repealed in effect and E .^'?" operation of such antecedent laws as were co ♦rad^r^orlf k^^^^ **>* consequently, evenifthatlaw underS the obio.Z° '''''"' ""^ had not previously fallen into disuse 1^^.^^! l^vl a 't ""^ •"^^*^» has been abolished for upwards of 60 tea^nr^^^^^^^^^ ^^ '^""' '' ^hohave received officesTrelofficesTa 'k^ ^^^^^ none that we know of, have been called on o^:ke\t^L^^^^^^^^^ Z^ Frlnce^ "l"^ ^''"' """^ "°'"'*^'' '" ^^e country who are natTves of Old that has passed through their offices ? The brin.C f^h „f th' ^'T^'^ at this moment, leads to very bad thouthts and ini^.P ?' *"""?' the intentions of those who Ly want o tad the ^Ic bZ^'LTK*" surpr.se into an admission of their doctrines. ThU seems as if il. \^i not be the sole act of un grejier cMcanneur, but as if t weTe ir s I.Ih , '' those who have for years been seeking to vilify and oppress heS^^^^^ populauon, and exclude as much as possible, all natives and Ca?il from office or success in life. If we overlook thio nn, ? • , S*'***'''^:* into an admission we can not retract ^e mut^ ok T. "eS ^l^J !^' crease of such manoeuvres. It would be daDirPrm,« ,„T "*''"" eyll consequences If the House were tosanctlonC! ' P''«"'°* ^'^'^ Mr. ViGER, ia corroboration of what Mr. Sneaker had sairl .^ A. Xn n : til J i ^■'t •i*,^ f 1$ Moraud's Petition, r i' , f ! : Iff* S i ' |'|;h offices of trust, honour aud emolument, secretaries, notaries, justices of the peace, &c., without being qualified according to the law under which lif r. Moraud was considered objectionable. Mr. Neilson regretted it did not appear likely Mr. Moraud would get his commission. It is not a light matter, when an individual comes before the House, for him to suffer the pangs of delay and uncertainty ; and if this case be not disposed of, others may occur. Would Mr. Speaker have the people suffer for ever ? if they suffer injustice, they should come forward and declare it ; that is what Mr. Moraud had done. If he has the right, let him have his admission. That he is personally qualified in every respect there can be no doubt, whatever doubts may exist as to the law. But is there no remedy ? undoubtedly a representation to Government, or an act to the Imperial Parliament might produce a remedy, but were people to wait for having justice done to theo^.tiU sucyti measures could be preferred ? jf ,, i-n]A^ Mr. Papineau said, the objection was not to the petition, or to the subject of it, but to the conduct of the Committee, who had dune what they ov^ht not to do, and left undone what they ought to have done. If he has a right to be admitted, the Committee ought to have said so. If after this, he was not admitted, then, as not only injustice would be done to him, but great numbers of others would be put in jeopardy, let application be made on the subject in such form, and such measures pur*> sued as may be thought right ; but he did not think this necessary ; — the laws, the capitulation, the constitution, all concur that he has a right to be admitted. The Committee had not duly considered the coasequencei of what they were doing. After a few more words from Mr, Neilson the Committee Tosct The Order of the Day on the contested Election for the Upper Town of Quebec, was postponed, and on the one for the borough oii William Henry, it was ResoUed, that if the grounds and reason of complaint set forth in the petition of the Electors are true, the same are sufficient to make void the said Election. A variety of routine business was transacted, and the House adjourned. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. A Committee consisting of the Hon. Messrs. Hale, Richardson, Fel- f OK, CuTBBERT and Bell, was appointed to consider that part of the Report of the Canada Committee, which had reference to the Legisla* tivaCtmncii. Proceedingt tn both Houses. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. ' I. . Wkdnesdat, Dec. 10. n .f ?;k7sj:';:::l:ril. f.r" '°°'°" "' ''°"'"' ~"--« "■• '- L.!',»»u:-^C"' * '"""°° ""•""-"■•^ f- St. John., a ..^'J^^^^^'n^ presented a petition from B. C. A. Guar Esn AH,n Cou?tfo7K?^R*^"l''*^%^r^ "'^'^ '^"«"'' offences af^iuS ^fth; Courts of Kiug'8 Bench and Vice Admiralty.-Referred. *^ °' *'''* Mr. Vallieres introduced a bill to limit imprisonment for debt. ♦hJrLr'*?'*/^*!!'' ^°"""'"e« of the whole on (he vacancy and salarv of Ll?^t' t rdert''' .;;" — -d '"> -d Mr. SpoakL^ForSho «oo8e that thee «rk, with Jus sanction, had appointed Mr Samuel wllUr tm Fri'dT"' ^'^-'^ *PP-"^-"t'the Ho'u'se co„cur;;drrdjo^^^^^^^ LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. •^^:>^^%:::^^^s:7^l;!'"'" >» "- '"" "■»■"■>» Tr?**! S":.^'"' ^'Kenz^e brought in a bill to revive the act of &7 O*^ III., to toitate the adminfetration of justice in small matters. ^t* Suy. '''" '*""" prejudicial to agricultural improvement; ai 1-1 1,1 m\ 7S ilH' J i J.'' » |, ) i'i 'J il^ Contcated Election for, William Henry, HOUSE OF. ASSEMBLY. Fbiday, Dec. 12. A ccrHficatc from the clerk of the crown in chancery of the election of Thomus liCe, Esq. for the Lower-Town of Quebec, was laid before the House. The following petitions were preseutfiri ; From the inhabitants of the parish of St. Anne de la Parade, praying an aid for the erection of school-houses ; referred to the Committee on Education.—From diver-M 80 Casio Bonorum. Thomas Lee, Esquire, returned for the IjowerTown of Quebec instead of J. Belanger, Esq. deceased, took his seat. On the second reading of the bill to remove doubts respecting the benefit of Cetsio Bonoruntj a debate took place, which is here incorporated with that which arose on its first introduction, in order thai a more con- dense and clearer view may be afforded of tkc ar^ments used. Mr. ViGBR in introducing this bill meant to revive the humane provi- sions of the old French Law, as far as related to merchants and traders, which, by the Ordinance of 25th Geo. III. and the interpretation given to it by the Judges, (which he, and many others, contended was erro- neous,) had been destroyed in this country. In a Colony, whose inhabi- tants were derived both from France and England, in both which King- doms provisions had been made both for the protection of trade, and for the relief from oppressiori of unfortunate debtors — in a Colony, where it was for the interest of commerce that well defined, just, and humane, regulations should exist — yet in such a colony we are deprived of the manifest benefits that resulted both to trade, and to the community in general, from the law of cession de biens. Yet this is oppo-ied by persons who pretended to be the friends of commerce, who pretended to under- •tand its fundamental principles, and yet do not see how much these would be advocated, and trade really benefited, instead of being injured, by the measures he now proposed. This bill had nothing to do with persons not in trade, it left them as before, it only related to the law of imprisonment for debt, as between merchant and merchant. The law, as it was now supposed to stand, was calculated to destroy the interests of trade instead of favouring them. By the old law, creditors might pursue and take the property of their debtors, and when all failed to pay, they might, that is in mercantile concerns, proceed to contrainte de corps (tmprlsonment)— so they might now. — But by the old law the debtor was allowed to make a cession de biens — to give up all his property, and thereby save himself from imprisonment, and obtain his discharge ; biit the judges bad interpreted the statute of 1785 that no cession de biens could be permitted — the creditor after taking all the property he could find, had a right to t^e the body of his debtor, and confine him till the whole was paid, that is, for his life* How much more equitable, how much more tonsistent with common sense and humanity, that, after all is taken from him, or that he has given up all, the debtor should be free. In England when a debtor gives up his property, he obtains a certificate iiirhich protects him in f\iture from all antecedent claims. Mr. Valliebes adverted to the supposed objections made to the introduc- tion of the law of cession de biens, in lieu of that of imprisonment, namely, that it would give occasion to frauds and fraudulent transfers of property, hut these might be obviated by proper regulations, not perhaps so severe ebec instead Ces9io Bonorum. 81 u those which the laws both of Cnn-in^.! j m cases; for in both couTurlMn ceftafX'^^^^^^^^^ •""'^*'*' '" *»»°»« decreed a, the puuishment of tl!e Xffi„T^bT"' T" ^T'^ ^»» cmion.. c,r secreted his property when he nreL^l? "'■''° «'"'»^« ^»»»» the old French Ordinances exht anH h„ P'^*f '^f'^ »° give it up. But mode in which the ^Z otl^'s't^ZTl^^T »"«P«"d«' ^y the then have recourse to them, and d^d're fhem rftce p''*''*^^-"'*^ '''' and^hegu^onlir^^^^ tid t^blSj^r T^^ '^- lent debtors from deceiving their cred tors -fnJ^i/; ^ P.''"""' ^''»«'>»- hard and cruel that the hfnest deb or shonlS si? *f' "'^"'"^^ ''* ^« dishonest. So with creditors i s hard to ml. ♦^ ' ^^''T'' °'^"--'« «'«'* of due meansof constraiSunwiKnrTK ^^^^J^Stv for the want on one hand j or to put a rfaUciou "feS toi'^r^'t^ ''''°" '° P'^y ^^^^-n liberal one. All these obie^L St to^^^^^ "PO" the same footing as a be taken. For his part? he ha'l fot - ' *^°"«'dered in any measSre tq general as others had. He wTshed iirh5n'"^\'r P**^^ ^°'- ^^^'^'^ '»» he did not believe there wereTgrlt ma„v .n'^'°" ^'^^ relieved, bu? ors do we not see who livHn luxuJv Th l~^ "^ '"/!iy ^™"^^^^^^ ditors.-In his professional practKr2r^^^^^^ >n defiance of their crel but one instance of an honest man who ^fff^^"* H '=°"^** *^«" *« "ni^ Generally speaking deb^rwrr^^'^^Slt^d'if t^T^ ""j'""?^ to untie all the bands of justice bet^en A^t^ Ia a^."" "'''^^ ''"'"^^ people were, in a measureUompS to b^b-^^^^^ ^Y y\^\c\^ quences. A man considers it a v/rv h«,^ "* '^'[''- **"* ^^«' ^^ ^^^nse- harder still to see hisTaSiroSl^^^^^^^ '^,! ^''^ ^oods sold, and bad, to prevent it. Yef ^is'^c: Lfiis"!'^^^^^^^^^ ?^ may contrive to make a cession de W Li? ? k i, ^\ P^W— so ho on aU. •' ""'• ^"'■'^J' *^^ Ja^ ought to operate equally Mr, Vauierbs contended that whatever mio-h* k- j interests of commerce, nothingcould be fertrer^ftlm « ""'^f ^ *° .*^' that when every thinff was takf n awL „„?fi ^ u ^^"^^ *^°s« t^^an paying he shouW t^TfnTnrhnn;? tY' ^ '''? .*^^''*°'" ^^^ ^'s^bled from ll ji rfj ?] i!',! 1 '^ 82 Cessio Bonoruni. by which the hatred, malice, or stubbornness of creditors were permitted to defeat all the good intentions of the law both to themselves and their debtors. We are not making laws that will affect the stability of com. merce, but in fact for its better support ; for, if the trader who fails can not pay the whole of his debts, the cession will give ^e creiUtors all they can get ; and if he makes no cession, then they have the same remedy as before, contrainte de corps (imprisonment.) It is a reproach to us that we have suffered these abuses to exist so long. With regard to the ab- stract question as to what right creditors ought to have over their debtors, they ought to have as much favour shewn them as possible to pay them* selves out of the property of their debtors, having regard also to whatever can prevent the delay, or lessen the expense, of recovering debts, but no more. But we ought also to consider that whatever laws we can pass on this subject, whether ostensibly in favour of debtors or of creditors, reach them in a double capacity. There is no debtor simply or creditor simply, we must look upon debtors, as they really always are, creditors of others— the chain goes round, and in one capacity or other, the law will affect both. It is extremely difficult to consider the general question, but this we do not now do— this is only a law of exception, to exempt such as do a ike a cession de biens from the persecutions which they may be otherwise obliged to endure from the inveteracy of their plaintiffs. I will admit that now many a debtor secrete* his property, but an unfor- tunate man, with a wife and children, with the prospect of a prison before him, can not starve j he is therefore forced to be dishonest ) whereas, if all could be given up, and himself free to go on in the world again, he would not have the same temptation to deceive, and l-is creditors would get that which he must necessarily expend for the maintenance of himself and family during his confinement. Various laws in this respect prevailed in different partsof Europe, all of which were made for the purpose of favour- ing commerce, and in all the honest trader was discharged from his debts on giving up his property. Trade had all the security it ought to have, and the debtor was secure that his exertions to redeem his lost situation in life would not be impeded. Here, as the laws stand, there is no difference, the honest man is treated in the same manner as the greatest rogue. In such alterations as he proposed to make in the law, he did not dare to touch the ancient laws of the country— his attack was directed against that part of the new law, which was more barbarous than the other. He would not risk any measure as yet that would put us on an equality in those respects with England, whose bankrupt-laws could not, in all instances, be applicable or useful here. Mr. Neilson trusted that in whatever was donfeite'aftt?riii'sthe Iftw of debtor and creditor, nothing would be introduced th^rvpiautd imjialc com- mercial confidence. With respect to the justice bettf»":ing his demand , bnl on the other hand Mr. ViQER in the debate on Friday. Cwhen hiV,th regard to the criminal part of the English bankrupt-law no o^ would advocate its introduction into Canadl But we c'ould^^ h« ^"^^f ^ bankrupt-laws, fo^ we have no court of Chancery, which?, he court there that has jurisdiction i„ those cases. The cesi on dl tTo7Z •'' ^"* ^••'bstitute-under that, the distributi;n of the pr'^er y of the insolvent was made by the Tribunals-as the law now stands r^eraSunh^V'^'^. f'^r? ^^ -s however, in another r^s^ec preferable. The French law liberated the person of the debtor but left his future goods liable ; but future property was discharged as w'eUa the person, by the English law. We might%uccessfully^adoS provision, lied ' '^"" '^" merchauts' interest wo^uld be best con- The blending of French and English law can produce no evil if we adopt from each that which is most convenient tS our situ" t.o„-l heT« aToiJeT^i'^i'*''^ ''" be taken with benefit, and part^Jirmu "J avoided. As things are at present, it is known from one end of the province to the other, how defective the laws are In this respect, and we ought to satisfy the public mind, and shall satisfy it, if we adop? su^h salutary provisions as we may find either in the EngUsh or the French Z. With respect to his bill for amending the Ordinance of 1785, in that he did not mean to enter into the ca.e of merchants, and traders -his ScTe7theT'*'VP"'°l*'^ '^" "''''='' "^^^^^ who purchased an article at the s ore of a merchant or trader, liable to be dealt with in he same way as if he were a trader himself-'there was no excepTion- ecclesiastics, women, all classes and sexes, if they only bought an artkle of necessity at a tradesman's shop, for which they could not immediate^ pay, were as much liable to imprisonment as the dealer who got trusted i i'A ■ir-m t u-j i 86 Imprisonment for Debt. I for the wares, from the profit upon which he had to live. It was no impos> sible case to put, that under this act the superieure of a convent of reli- gious ladies, might be put iatc the common prison, for a debt due to a baker for bread, furnished for the sisters of the establishment. By the old law of France, none but bona fide merchants and traders were subject to the contrainte de corps — professional men, divines, women, mechanics, workmen, &c. were exempt. But by this strange interpolation in that law, all were subjected to the same process. The Ordinance of 1785 was as much against the interests of trade, as it was barbarous, deceptive, and immoral. What has ensued from it ? A dealer says, " I will trust this man because, if he don't pay me, I can put him in gaol, and get my money some how or other :" but when he is brought to do that, the scales fall from his eyes, and he finds that imprisonment is neither security uor payment. If this were not the case he would be slow in giving trust. In mercantile matters credit is essential ; but in the other concerns of life, the least it be resorted to the better, both for the seller and the purchaser. Mr. Lee was surprised to find that it was endeavoured to shelter pro-^ i; jional men, lawyers^ physicians, divines, and others from imprisonment, while traders were to be subjected to it. But he hardly saw where the line was to be drawn — many of those were partially engaged in trade, and the numerous bills of exchange and notes of hand, which were seen, with the names of persons not directly engaged in trade, proved that at least they meddled with a very material part of traffic. The learned gen- tleman certainly knew the law better than he did, but he always thought that if a man put his name to a note, he was not only obliged to pay it, 1)Ut became a trader under the laws of exchange. It is said to be very hard that persons not engaged in trade should be liable to the same conse- quences as those who were, he could see no ditFerence — were they not equally obliged to pay their debts ? And in these cases instead of cre- ditors imposing on theiv debtors, it was constantly the reverse — the deb- tors imposed on their creditors by taking upon credit what they knew they were unable to pay. In such a system there was the greatest danger of encouraging cheating and fraud. Must men of different professions, not precisely traders, be allowed to run in debt to their tailors, shoe- makers, bakers, butchers, &c. — to clothe, to warm, and to feed them- selves — at the expense of others. As to the misery and unhappiness of the debtor liable to imprisonment, the world is made up of happiness and misery— if we were all happy, we should want neither laws nor law- makers — it is the natural state of society. He conceived the happiness of society in general, would be best promoted by protecting laws for the rich — by giving preponderance to those who possessed property, they would be both not only less inclined to do ill towards their fellow- lf«aturesj but would promote the happiness of those beneath them. Now Imprisonment for Debt, 97 by plolecUng their creditors in the sanie "av ? He -„,?u f '°/\"'°°». Ki"di,r "r'i' "" T'" "" """"'"-'« "" "b ' °a°r„fr^.r for the distinction drawn between traders and others. braoch of hosiU .heJ-:o''rpri "eCf ,°o"^'.7arS Tr'17 The oe«u)» A 6«» both protects the honest debtor, and £,es?oth.' creditor all he can desire ; whilst the seizors of the property of d.S.o~i! !^%ri:r^:ji;^^'jra"ssi?r'sd''"^^^^^^ The bill being referred to a Committee of five, the netUinn nf f™j • r Pearl was also referred to the same Committee!' ^ of Frederick LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. .2^^ ^}^\ '*° "^^^"^ and amend part of the act 36th Geo. III. for the sate custody and registering of Letters Patent for waste land of the Crown, was passed, and ordered to the Assembly. * HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Saturday, Dec. 13. .r^""' ^I''^T P''^'^"*«d a Pe««on of the Wesleyan Society of Quebec praying that they may be allowed the privileges enjoyed by other deno m.n.t.ons of Christians, with respect to marriages, li^ths, Jnd burials!!!' Mr. OoDEN, from the Committee on the claims of the Israelites to have a p ace of worship, to keep registers of births, &c. introduced a bill for tnat purpose. " '"*^ The bill to extend the provisions of two acts for the benefit of the oro- pnetors of the Montreal Library was par.ai and ordered to the CourcTi: •14 ml ill i 4 ■fe'-n II'' 1 I: 8B Administration of Justice. , 1 1 The bill to facilitate the Administratioa of Justice throughout the Pro^ vinoe was read a second time, on which occasion Mr. Viger rose, and said, he had several times addressed the House on this most important aubject. The whole frame of society was built upon the due admioistra- tioo of justice, and where that is defective, society is shaken to its base. A good administration of justice produces good citizens ; a bad one pro- portionably otherwise. By receiving protection in the courts of justice, men learn to value themselves and their country, and feel their exemption from being oppressed by tyranny. A bad administration of justice was nothing but an organised tyranny. He was sorry to say the courts of jus- tice here were far from being a sample of what they ought to be. We have an advantage it is true, in the greater number of our superior courts in proportion to tlie population, than was enjoyed elsewhere, but Govern- ment had failed in establishing an administration of justice here, fit for the country. Before the French Revolution, the great evil, and which still exists there, was the great number of inferior tribunals, with no counterweight in superior judges — there were no juries, and an infinity of jadges— so many small courts scattered over a country can not be for the advantage of the public ; the consequence is, that in small places, thei inferior judges were so much connected with the places where they re* sided, and the people surrounding them, that it was almost impossible justice could be done; — justice, however, should be like the wife of Caesar, not only virtuous, but above suspicion. He entered iuto some details respecting the system of judicature in France, and drew the con- clusion, that it could not at all suit this country. But it is notorious that a new system is wanted here. Let us, therefore, renounce the old sys- tem, founded on that of France, which is neither recommended by theoretical opinion nor by practical experience. He would recommend, on the contrary, the adoption of the English mode for the administration of justice — certainly not the whole, for great, enormous, and acknow- ledged abuses prevailed in it — abuses descended from ages of ignorance and barbarism, and which the best efforts of English statesmen and lawyers had yet been unable to eradicate. Eminent jurisconsults are now, however, sedulously employed in the task, which has beea a favourite object for these 20 years past in that country. Notwithstanding these defects, however, no system can generally be better than the English. The number of judges there was not many — the superior courts were but few — but both are held in the highest respect and veneration ; the inde- pendence and integrity of the judges are known to the whole nation, and religiously confided in. But it is to the admirable institution of juries that the excellence of justice is to be ascribed. There are, indeed, two Courts, that of Chancery and of Doctors Commons, which are only con- stituted out of the ministers of the law — but these are obliged, in matters of fact, to have recourse to juries, bud to send them to trial by juries, bisfore they can decide on many of the cases that are within their peculiar 'Administration of Justice. 89 judgment upoq their feilow-ciUzens their Kht- "^^^ '^*»'» when they have performed thoSSes'"et: n*fbrk\i t^^^^^ their own c roles. Hence it ia th»t ♦!.» k j . . *"®"^ ^'"'"W "nd «>nfidence in, and ^eTp" t'Vll^/fhl trtLt^f jl L aXeT.£S:r,tr^^^^^^^ • jury decUres^a man innocent or decidMbetw«r!T* J° '"'" » ""*'» '^ there exist, no power within the monarch vt^^^^ *'>««» their verdict. It is this that makerthe ELn.h . '*" ^'*° "" ''»*» ^^ it is not their riches, nor their pc^ernorthlfr '"^Kf "•*' * P«°P'«- it is the institution of juries andTso'^eit^u'o^ by the people, that makes them what 'hev frp Ik- l''^'*''» •» ena«ted try, entcrprize, energv and seTfTinL^^ ft'*''* S''^' *••««» '"dus- and power^ Th^ cir^Jucour « frE^Sfrf ^^^^ ^^'l? P'"''"<'*» '^«'"«h impaJtial aiministrSofTu si e h'e re we hafe n"'''^ 'tT^ ^""''^^ comparatively useless-from the wan of jurie' uVtrt •""* ^''•''.''? cases, we have the benefit of u.riocii'' "true, in cnminal composition of jurieslwSe^^^ **> thequesUon of the remained in a defective state How^Lm^ -^'^ *'*^"" ''"'''*'''"' ''"*•'«» w.th the language of the suitors whoU caSthey'were'^raX^^^ adjudge-how could they be proper iurvmen ? S Zl u • **" *^ liarto this Province, thJhon.UlernrS seen U^p^ l^^^^^^^^^^^ tt'^Sr,^lre^a"rttTtr jurymen in the causes of the" countyL? S ^to terrTbt'ed^r t **' interpreters to interpret between ihJm, thrbarT^ d e b. fh Tt^eJe' t was considered as an imperative duty to have a'jury of th. inhabi'V^JT! and the judges, no doubt, properly considered that a verdict rendered bv any other jury would be invalid and illegal. But here by a iaw l^t • .TIm^JI'" ^fh a country-an imprudent and improp^erlaw-madp in the childhood of the Province, when the Canadians koewnoJThe value of juries, and scarcely of personal liberty ; by tbe statute of 7SA? • enacted that juries in personal r.uses shJu'ld b^ take^on v frol tlfe''^^^^^ zeus of Montreal anx] Quebec ! How can they, jud J"« "h^^fuZ a wer« brought before them by the rest nf the inhabitants ?* Igels from helve* IZ Tn tT' '^'^V:' "»J'^^*^'^ *° ^'' ^^^ *»»*« is still done every day. To the honour of these city.juriea, however, it must be said IhS i jiii rn if If «!..,! ■ iHfl^H^B ■ ■1 ■■i i^Hw 90 Administration of Justice. they had often reprcBentcd, not only that the burthen imposed on them was too great, but that it was derogating from the rights of their fellow - citizens in the country. This system is just the same, as if deput es .rom the citizens of Quebec, Montreal, or Sorel, were called upon to legislate for tlie whole Profince. Criminal juries too are similarly ilUconstituted— this however, is not wholly the fault of the law or of the judges. Ihe precepts of the courts are properly issued, directing juries to be sum- moned from the body of the district. Yet never, that he knew of, bad the SheriflFs property complied with the precept. In the ulterior proceed- inffs in criminal cases the least error is often sufficient to set them aside, and arrest the voice of judgment ; but this main and essential error in the outset, is overiookcd and contemned. Have we not even the declaration of ashcriff in 1817,thathe had not followed the precept issued to him because it did not suit him ! It this the way the law ought to be administered j The hon. gentleman again compared the difiFerent systems that prevailed in France and in England. In France it was well known, and would be confirmed by every page of its legal history, the accused had no chance, he was abandoned by his friends for fear of being invoUed with him— he was lost to society, and with all the politeness imaginable, his friends and rehtions would say to him, « excuse us, you know v/e must leave yon, we must not countenance or assist you, or we shall be 3usper>ed, and sacrifice ourselves uselessly for you." Even at his trial, lawyers scarcely dared venture to plead his cause, and if they did, always in eflfectually when power and prejudice were set in array against him. Now let us pass the narrow channel that divides the two empires. Here we see the effects of that excellent and admirable institution, the purity and universal extension of which I am recommending to my countrymen. Hovirever poor, low, friendless, or obnoxious to the great and powerful, the accused could safely say to the judges on their bench, I ask not for your favour I have only to appeal to my country, to the jury who is to decide my innocence or guilt. In every other country in Europe, an individual pursued by the great (les grnndsj, is a lost man. In England no power, no intrigues, no influence, have weight— and we have lately seen instances wherein all the mighty powers of government have been brought to bear against individuals, who have juridically triumphed over them. That cases of libels on government have been frequent in England is true — yet we must not say the people are not attached to their King and Govern- ment; none are more so, none more loyal — because they know the sovereignty of the law, not upheld by military force, or arbitrary power, but by its own firm strength, based oii the popular voice. There a simple constable, with his little wand bearing the insigna of the King, can impose silence on a tumultuous crowd and disperse a mob, without contest or force. That there are exceptions is also true — but in general this is a true picture. He hoped that the efforts he was making, and the effects he wished to produce on the public mind, would produce an assimilation Administration of Justice. 91 jects, ,*hlch were those of the «^^^^^^^^^^ 'nvesfgatiog these sub- had lately heard a great dell ab'ou ?u'ca«rn b"f to ^'^L-^k'"''"- "^ suggested by the bill, would be to estaS\ ,!, "*^''''f *=°"'^*^«» which all classes could profit, learn jus ceeSuitv^r ? !''"''''°" ^^ guage, and fit themselves to serve ojjurles' aSd l^v'^?' . ?de e,e„ lan- bly. But, howerer, juries ought °o be part o .hrnp 1 "*• '". *'''' ^"^'"- be disconnected with them, an*d above aK^^^^^^^ Canadians were represented as uTnstruceTaTd^ ^ The were not as yet so mU so as was desirab luhev Zes^lV""'^ toserveonjuries-the qualifications of a juryman^were dTff^rPn^^ '** those of a merchant, a lawver a nh.Uc^^i, ^ oinerent from advantages of the Voma^^iud tral/'ofVe '*'''?'" ' ''"^ *"« juries, -as fully felfand acIowIedgednEng^^^^ w";?^' ^"'/"^ °" ever, to the moral and reli.^ious education o{iheC.n3 'P^*'*' '"**■ would maintain that it was at least eoual ?f nnf . ^"° peasantry, he peasantry of every other cou, frv • T ' * '"Penor, to that of the rietors if their lit^leti: ^Z^ intlte;"re:T witf S"^ ^T hours, and the country around them • and » hl^ Jk , . *^'^"" "^'«''- was added to all this,^«hy shouldThU not be as fit't^t"?""^ °' '" '''^ set of citizens in the world? He wis sureV h ' k ^ ^"''^'"'" "'-'"^ regularly for the last forty years arJLy l!ht ♦/ 1, i'"" '^"'^^ °" served on juries, they woild be so .t thfs daf i -^^^ ^'"' *° ^^''^ called on. would be^und fully adeqntetJ' the n" r' ^'^ ^'"'^ '^«'» duty-were the citizens of Montreal and Oui.^ performance of their with those duties 20 or 40 years a^o?s»S»„ ? *" >' '""'='' acquainted did not mean to call their vS2 in n ,^«X r^' ' """^^'^^ "°*- «« honest and just ; and Lh would betEfr^^ ""T ^^""''"^ ^"""^^ restored to Jhat right, and the p^Form nee of tha."^^^^^^^ f they were them to exercise. If this bill na.«lT • • **»»' duty, which he v.ished this country as ther^ re of EtV"^ \\''' pnUadium of he had said would conduce to the S end he had7 • ""'"^ '^'' "'"** liberty and prosperity of ourselves fndou? posterity '''''' ''''"''^' ^^« het a';ruerand7hfevidt^^^^^^^^ ^^"'^^ -th which ject-but'on this, as on another oo^^ !'''^ -P-*^«t -b- would be produced before thrwfiT' ''^.'"'P^*' that personal evidence by the hon'. pr^^o^er Jr^^^^^^^^^ ^°'""^"««' - '^^ matters set forth SALMON FISHERIES. Fists in?hrcou"ieT If'^clwaU^ T^""" ^' ''^ S^'«- QuuouET in the chair. Cornwalhs and Northumberland.-Mr. '•'* rf: i 'i ■y/j J'f ,; -." I :| '; If fj ! ^f ;1 jjhj >w 4:1 fii r;,H 92 Salmon Fisheries. If: 11 Mr. Speaker Papineau opposed the bill. He had not heard of any petitions from the inhabitantu of those counties prayiu^ for such a bill. This did not relate to the fisheries at sea, but to tliose In the rivers, and would tend to make fishermen of those who ought to be agriculturists. He was not very partial to that sort of foresight, which would preserve either the fish, or the game, of new countries— both which gifts of nature should be left to the settlers. It was besides impolitic to establish a police, as this bill would do, by which the inhabitants were set in array one against the other, and tempted to become inlormew. Such restrictions seem borrowed from Europe, where indeed they prevailed more for the sake of contributing to the pleasures of the rich, than to the benefit of the people. At all events, whv could it be necessary to prohibit people from fishing for the use of their families ? Any regulations of the fisheries here should be confined to the appointment of inspectors, to see to the salting, packing, and fitting for exportation, of fish intended for sale— that by the brand of the inspector that sale might be facilitated, and trade encouraged. Here too was a summary power given to justices of the peace, to destroy, and call upon the inhabitants to assist In destroying, nets or other obstructions placed for the purpose of catching fish, of the nature of which the justice was constituted sole judge— this power is very repugnant to all ideas of Tight and wrong, and to liberty and policy. He would rather that all the salmon iu the river should be destroyed, than such a power be given to any man. Free liberty of hantinj; and fishing exists all over the country, and one part of it ought not to be restricted in them moro than another. He wished to know the value and amount of the fishery. Mr Cheistie said this was a bill to continue in force another that had been passed in the 4th year of His Majesty's reign, aud was about to expire. The provisions of the bill were not new, they bad been in force for several years. Dr BtANCHET said, there were very few rivers in the settled part of the county of Cornwallis where the salmon fishery could be carried on. He thought, with the honourable Speaker, the inhabitants of Cornwallis ouKht V have full liberty of fishing— it formed great part of their subsis. tence • to prevent it would be ruinous to many of them, and would deter others from settling. He had himself a large interest in that county, and was possessed of lands which he desired to get settled, to which this bill T*ould be a great obstacle. No petition on the subject had come from the inhabitants themselves, and he would not wish to legislate for them in a point so important to them, without consulting them. He objected also to the jurisdiction given to justices of the peace, and the powerto make seizures, levy fines, &c. The fishery chiefly takes place on the shores of the St. Lawrence, and the concessions in the rear depended prin- cipally upon the fishery for their subsistance. Bread stuff was both very acatce, Tery iodifferent and very dear i and many mnabitanti lived Salmon Fisheries. 93 r. K ^ ?Au '"'' ^""''- ^''** ^''"''^ '* »'Snify !f half a century hence bitedby the heasts of the forest, who would bring iu a bll to limit the lo fisVe ir""'' °"'"' '*"'''"' *"• ""^ '^ '' *"« "«•"« with 7esp ct tliei abr Mr. VroER, after adverting to the game-laws of Europe, and shewJnc- e.r dis8,m.lar.ty to the present measure, contended that, Instead of rulg,ng the liberty of fishing, it extended It, by preventing a^y ottaele, being placed at the mouth, of rivers, ,o as to hinder the fish from going up to those who hved farther ofl. * * » Mr. Speaker said, the honou le member for Gasp^ had a slnffular mode of replying to obj ections. . r he is asked the amount and value of the fishery said to want protection, he virtually replies, the bill ha, passed ma Special Committee ! Do we sit in general Committee to h»ve our mouths so stopped P-lIe says the same bill is already in the statute, book-but why was ,t enacted only for four years-because we miirht argue on it afterwards, and at its expiration continue it If found advan- tageous or aband0« it if otherwise. It has also been answered, that the object of the bill was to prevent the mouths of rivers from been obstructed so that the fish might go up them. This appears to be part of the bill • but another part, ond the principal part, prohibits any one from catching salmon, and makes it penal to do so for nearly half the year. Here is a strong motive for deterring settlers— settlers who might not be able to obtain a footing in more cultivated tracts, and who would encounter the hardships of these, because they might have the great advantage of deriv- ing a certain subsistence from the waters. Kvery one is forbidden to take even a single salmon, to give his family a dinner-nay more, an Indian wanting bread, may not sell a salmon to get it. When he found a law of this kind proposed, he could not but exclaim against It, as tyrannical contrary to natuial liberty, and consequently, if in no other view, preiu! dicial to the country. > f J" Mr. Christie said, if this bill was tyrannical, it did not originate with theCommittee— the penal clauses were the same as in the former bill— . it had Ijeeii recommended by the members of the counties in question, whose opinions shonld not be dispised. ' Dr. Dr.AKcnET alleged, it was a law that suited neither the manners nor the wishes of the inhabitants. If its object were to preserve the salmon It ought to be extended all over the shores of the St. Lawrence. Salmon were taken m most of the rivers both above and below Quebec. Mr, I.ATERRiERE maintained that the experience that had been had of «J»8 Uw, shewed that such reitriction, did good. Before it, the Inhabi- ■h 'hi i'U iv ia*i ■'''' ' 'I I 'h ' r ' i IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-S) 1.0 I.I 1^ !■■ Ill 2.5 2.2 2.0 1.8 1.25 1 1.4 iJ4 ^ .-^ 6" - It. m^y ^ r ^. /a. ^.. ^J ■'^w °\ 1? ^' '>i/ '/ Hiotographic Sdences Corporetion 23 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER. NY 14580 (7>6) 872-4503 ^ Salmon Fisheries. m bants of Cornwallis fished at all seasons, and had nearly destroyed the fishery. It is a fact, that since then salmon has been more plentiful. Mr. Lee wanted to know whether this bill was intended to protect private, or public, property. It was very dangerous to attempt to legis- late as to the common property of all. He should be for leaving all at liberty. Every one should be left to the exertions of his own industry and experience. He recollected petitions presented against fishing by torch, light. In that respect, as in this, and others, restrictions were good for nothing. If every one is left to himself, he will find out that which it is his interest to do, and if he finds it against that, he will not go on. Mr. E. C. Lagueux made some remarks on fishing by torchlight and on the shoals, and observed that restrictions or permission there, made no difierence as to destroying or preserving the fish — those that were driven away from there, did not return to the ocean, but went up higher, and ■were caught. He should like to know what would be the effect of this bill on the River Ristigouche, which formed the boundary between this and the Province of New Brunswick — if it extended thither, the Cana- dians, on one side, would not be allowed to take any, and the New Brunswickers, on the other, would get all. Mr. Vallieres said, that salmon, and other sea-fish, were considered by jurisconsults as the common property of all ; and a legislature, acting for the common good, may make laws for common property, whilst they could not interfere with private property. The man who makes a fortune in ten years out of the property of th)s public, gs perhaps might be in the salmon fishery, is taking too great a share of that property, and ought to be restricted in it. A beneficial trade had been lost to this country by the want of due regulation. Ginseng found in this country by the Jesuits, and sent to China, (for they were merchants as well as ecclesiastics,) was a source of considerable profit — but it was left, as the honourable gentle- man for the Lower Town would have the fishery, to the industry of indivi- duals, who gathered i^ at improper seasons, whence its quality became very inferior, and the produce diminished— so that the Canada ginseng lost its reputation in China, and the trade was lost ; which would not have been the case, had it been subject to proper regulationr. The industry of the people should be regulated, not only on that ground, but because the natural cupidity of man, when it is found that it can be gratified by preying upon the common property of all, will go on to destroy those blessings, which, if enjoyed moderately, and under proper restrictions, Vould be sources of national prosperity. Mr. Lee contended, that even in the instance adduced by the learned gentleman, of ginseng, if regulations had been made, they would have con- Terted the trade into a monopoly. Monopoly was the great moving spring id the New Salmon Fisheries. iq^ d«cti,e of e,i|, compWol. would Z^'n\J^^^ T.™ '"°- h«i,.eo .„pa„ao "iofull.wbec.a.o'n.r.S'AtHSi.d f^^L WH*; reg.rd lo oUtrpctiog rivers, be hae knew what their effects would be here, and what they would be elsewhere. V Mr. VioEB said the question was very simple ; the petition was signed partly in Three Rivers and partly in Quebec. The right of the subject to petition was too sacred to be parlied with for the sake of trifles. The question was not whether the complaints set forth were well founded or not— the petitioners had a right to make them, if they thought them true. Mr. BouRDAOES— As long as there was no signature on the body of the petition, it was not one, and could not be presented, was it not neces- sary therefore to put it in a proper form ? But it is the substance and not the form which displeases. But it is the general voice of the people j it ia the cry of the public, echoed and re-echoed thruiigh the Province- all the world know and utter these heavy complaints. It is neither the first, nor the only, nor the last, petition. The disgusting grievances which the whole country has suffered from the misconduct of the late adminis- tration, produce this universal cry. Three Rivers has had its share, and something above the lot of other districts. As to Mr, Gallep^, he had enquired of Mr. Turgeon whether he had not afterwards explained to him what he had signed, and Mr, Turgeon's answer was, yes, he had.— But he would remark, that all the representatives who were sent from the district and the town of Three Rivers had signed this petition, ex- cepting the learned Solicitor General, Mr. OoDEN disclaimed any disrespect to the hon. gentlemen who had signed this petition, or to him who had presented it— but he did not see what respect was acquired by running about the streets to get the carters to make their crosses to petitions like this. When it 'jame here, it had not one signature;— a separate paper indeed contained a vast numr ber of crosses, but how many of these were the crosses of Quebec carters, or how many of the 5364 crosses annexed to it, were procured in the same way in which Mr. Gallep^ was induced to put his name down, he could not tell ; but there are hundrends of names, of course with crosses, which are put down in a handwriting that was familiar to him, Mr. Mondelet's, and hundreds of others, in another handwriting equally well known. On the whole he could not but look on the petition as an impo- sition on the House. A member observed that the learned Solicitor General seemed to allege that there were none but crosses to the petition— looking only to the first i)i.ge of it, he saw 53 names signed by hand, and so on with the Proceedings in both Houses. 101 voluntarily. ^ "^^' ^'^^ °" •»«« °>«de before witnesses, a?d Mr. BocRDAOEB then moved that the petition should be printed. that it was customary at rSrXi&^^^^ Crown to be printed With thrsiffnaturef ?r l*'"!' ministers of the in this instanloe, that it Ight if know; ^iT' ^^ ^J""^*^*' """^'"y ^^^je. o,..d Daihousie^^^^ woXothow^^L:^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^'^t^ on protested from\%a"rnTthd^^^^^^ *'^^. »>'»»? P^^^^* ^-"^"lent debtor, did not objeftfo ;L pSd^lc^^^^^^^^^^ Mr. Speaker P.p,.k.u, to the qualifications of just£ of fht ' ' P^"?'"^ **"" ^^'^^ '^''^ted of this bill would fXit ouSt ?! h. P'*"'/° '**'°'" **>* '^^^'^^'^^ P"t were proper persons for ffnl ?k 1"'°"''^ <^o°8Wered in how far they those offiL h TbL'nt;toZ^r„5'^*;"'y, ^"'^ P«^*'^ •"^"n^'' '" ^hich without respecilnfty or r^^^^^^^^^^ lateadministration, persons creditors, who soughVmS a ' 'j^^^^^ T^ as Magistrates, might do the than good, and mifht seek to gSt ?y* hdr d^^^^^^^ ^'^'''''' 'T' ^^'"^ the expense of the Community. ^ ^^'"^ ^°'' Po*^**" ^"^ P~fit> »* CourtsS^Sg^Bth^Z ^'^^"^ ?P*^^ ^^Sistrates, but to the pose 3 this, an? the'-oirratXr ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -ners. -uld prevent any appearaLTofg4%t„,^^^^^^^^^^ LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. H.^E. wTag^es'^^^^^^^^^^^ '" ^°™™'"«e, on that part of townships. ^ ^ *'°« '^^ establishment of Courts of Justice in the HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. ■till *r5 II 102 Roads and Internal Communications. priTileges as to marriages, etc. as were eojoyed by other religious classes. The Committees on the petitions of Lieut. Col. Vassal, and John Lane) reported unfavourably thereon. A message was received from H» E. the Adnunistrrtor, transmitting an extract from a representation of the Grand Jury of Montreal, of the in- sufficiency of the Gaol of that city, and of the great inconvenience suf- fered from the want of a House of Correction there, and recommending the same to the consideration of the House. Mr. Latbrbiere presented a petition from the inhabitants of St. Paul's Bay and other parishes, in the county of Northumberland, praying an aid to complete the road from St. Paul's Bay to Quebec, which was referred to the Committee on the report from the Commissioners for opening the said road. On motion of Mr. Lke, a Special Committee was appointed to draw up a statement of the monies appropriated since 1814, for roads and other local purposes. On this occasion Mr. Lee prefaced his motion by stating his conviction of the high importance of every thing being done to facilitate internal communication ; he conld not object to the large sums that had sue* cessively been appropriated for that purpose ; but the application and expenditure of those sums, were essential to be inquired into, and if a Committee were appointed to investigate such, it ought to be an instruc- tion to the Committee, to report as to tbe amounts expended for local objects, in particular Districts, so that the House might be able to judge of the real benefit derived to the public from them. Mr. CuviLLiER wished to ascertain whether the hon. member meant to found any specific measure upon the result of such return and enquiry ; and that he should explain what his object was in making this motion. Mr. Lee replied his object was to gain information as to the appropriation and expenditure of the large sums devoted anteriorly to the objects of internal communication ; without reference to any ulterior measure to be founded on such information. Mr. CuviLMER conceived the hon. member took too narrow a view of the subject. He supposed he wished to ascertain what proportion of money was given to, and expended respectively, in the districts of Que- bec, Montreal and Three Rivers, to compare the same, and censure perhaps a larger sum being employed in one district than in another. It might often be the case, and was, that large sums expended in one district was for the benefit of the whole Province. He believed the hon. member Roadt and Internal Communieatiom. lot .ere felt not .DTl.!li1«L ntril h^rlV ""J^"*" •' "Wch iry, were of »ltta..3™„l. "Xlrtio^.'id'rh ' °' "" ~^ BrL^rJ;rit„1bTe^.!f;\^reti£*r!j|.^;^ their own neighbourhood, which haH *£„!!? *"«""°" <»' Pities in advantage. Montrearha would admu' ToHs ' Tl ^'r ."' f ""'» geous geographical sitLation, was a Se Xrf faSr !^'*"''" ralco™n.„nication could no't but ha^TheTr'^flutc '^ |e7;a.*?eE' Yet the preference might be carried too far. The Ea^ ern Town h^ were mors in want, to brinRthem into value and nHIWv ♦ *l townships r,d'rr.,ee^= r i£~ •» -p^v^insx «.d .he- he fo„„d he cZ5 .0 ^Mh", "rT.° K^ «" '" ^'"" ""«"''-^' ". good, h. .ho„>d ..op. H':zut^t''.^c^'i^'r^::zA"'', ■one, perbaps an important one. I'erhaps .r*!r ^!'"°'' """"gl" we need not go so far back a> 1814 • ■ slat>n..„. alrnl^e^hl. »K°°;/r''l'.^^'"""*^^ *''** '» was not any locat S *¥ . ^^^""^^ ^^ ''^^''^y considered, but the general inter«« «c aVdi'st^iT;'": derived from the expendijure of n^o^/rn any'a ! SLf u'^^' /nuchofthe money thus appropriated, had been ex. It couW „«?'»!'1' *.'"!? •*'? ""* '^Sard^he geneJal benefit^ the province. It cottld not be denied that it was an advantage to every district whem To ;rnT'"" *!'* ♦'^ '''^^ P'-'^^' *»"»' as much money a couW be got, should be expended in their own district-every one recdved part of m 104 Mgotiation with Upper Canada. i ■' ' ■ TV 1 .1 ; >i iii ^-11 It— it oircoUted and did Kood to individaali, if not to tlie public— thii wii natural— but the general Legislature ought to know all theie particular!— they ought to know, not only how and where all the money waa ex- panded, but how it had been accounted for. In 1826 a large sum had been lo appropriated, which had not Batinfactorily been accounted for. Legiilaturei may Tote advances and appropriate money, but unless they receive prompt, faithful, and detailed accounts of its expenditure, they night go on voting money, without end, and finally, without object. On motion of Mr. Niilion, it was Resolved, that it is expedient that Commissioners be appointed on the part of this Province, to meet any G>mmis8ioners that may be appointed on the part of Upper Canada, to treat of, and report, upon matters of common concern to both Provinces, respecting the imposing and collecting of duties on importation, the Im- provement of the navigation of the St. Lawrence and the Ottawa, and roads of communication between the two provinces : — and that an address be presented to H. E. to transmit the same to the Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada, for the informatiou of the Legislature of that Province. On making his motion Mr. Neilson said, that he wished to signify to the Legislature of Upper Canada that we were ready to enter into a full and amicable discussion of (whatever objects might require it, between the two provinces. His proposal was strongly supported by the message re* ceived from H. E. the 28th November, where it would appear that the government in England had no desire to interfere in the concerns between the two provinces, provided the Legislatures of each could agree among themselves. This was in conformity with the report of the Canada Com- mittee, and the liberal spirit of the British government was, he trusted, amply answered, by that which now prevailed between the two sister provinces. It is indeed a long while Hince any official communications have taken place between them. He would not enquire how that arose ; but now the best uodeistanding existed between them, and he had no doubt that when the commissioners on both sides met, every thing that re* garded the mutual Interests of both provinces would be agreed to, and settled to the perfect satisfaction of all. To these resolutions he added one, to send the same to the Legislative Council, to request their coo* currence therein. On motion of Mr. Cuvilller, an address was voted to H. E. for com- munication of the record bock of reports of the Auditor General of Public Accounts. On the order of the day for the consideration of the petition presented against the return of Mr. Andrew Stuart for the Upper Town of Quebec being called, Mr. Bourdages moved that it be referred to a Committee of the whole House on Saturday. Regulation of tlu Office of Sher(ff\ loft deferred, th. «bi.ct"(. hi ., ' '. l ","" ",l""»'° dl.cu..lo„ »,„ b. ..II .0 ™i., £.1 LI "«""'',,"r »'•"■='' l"Porl.nc. IhU It ml,h. prep.™!. '° " f"'"""""/ *«r. ••'•t III might bo belter .lleged I. k.,,. "ended the e Inr k * "V ""' l"««"l"'l"ee .fcf .. *c .„d\ritii;rutft,',i:,rbrric''"'sVb.T^^^^^ be 1« f.v,„r .f ,h. «l™l„',"„ XTei uZJI^ '^""'•«'" "'"•"««' '» ««.fec.io„\f ,h. Judge, .b'a, ,h„;h.d'^ t' m™.:"f ", : bT„' « :'• pelting npon Ihon >t>tenient> acluillv In I and ..,. .m„L . f. '' lb. pablic, it w.. no, nece..ar» to reqXi," ",e,y h'av, ffi l^Tl'' '° p..od that that of the Sheriff oi^Qneb.., -hoZh^MX-^rtilT b. gi..D „M aftarward. ..Itled, a. per i.tr«:t of the ic™ """ " On the 18th clause of the bill- bv which Sherinw >» ™-,i- h 1 ■ « ltTnr.rz's,lil:"''",'^--»'^^^^^^^^^^^ were contined---ihe Committee could not come to a determinaHnn m; iTiTnTi *"' T'^T'' ^" *"•'" '"?««» between the FJencL* „tj he English law ; the French law forced the officer either to Tnt e money or to r^integr^ the plaintiff in the same po, Uion a" he IZ before, by the re-capture and re-imprisonment of the defendant for ml A; P«'rf*f "i'c month, was allowed him, whilst the Ssh law made the Sheriff immediately and Instantly liable' to pay the creditor he whole amount of his claim. The former appeared to him so mTch mire a onab e and just, thathe should wish it to be adopted. The consider^. ^:l:!ZSZ:^^::^'^^^' the C^miL reported r>^. '^i| 1. J K:, 1 S'K i Sti i 106 Purchases at Sheriffs' S(Ues, lgoislative council. A mttion was made that all Peeia, tans of Fecis, and metDbera cf the Executive Council, shall have seats below the Bar of thifl House, waich, aftetf debate, was negatived, HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. » Wednesday, Dec 17> Mr. Neilsom presented a petition from Mr. B. Ecuyer, Surveyor, for payment of a judgm nt against the commissioners of internal communica< lions fcr Dorcheptcr, which a judgment of Court had prevented from being satisfied by a sale of tLeir efiFects. Mr. Leslie presented two petitions from the Committee of Trade, of Montreal : the first against payment of duties at Quebec. — Referred to a Committee— the second, against the bill for exempting certain classes from imprisonment for deb: — refer j-ed to the Committee on the bill. Mr. V'.oKv. introduced a biU for adding five days to the criminal terms. Mr. Lee introduced a bill to incorporate the city of Quebec. Mr. tiovnv AC Bi introduced a bill to authorise purchasers of real pro- perty at Sherif ' .. sale, to retain the mcney at interest, on giving security till judgment of distribi;.ti«>n. Mr. Lee observed, that a bill for thi purpose had been passed in 1823, «nd, though much wanted by the people, »va3 rejected by the Council. T^e money was by no means so safe in the handa of the oheriff as io those of ihe purchaser, particularly if he held a mortgage. The passing of the bill of 1823 would have saved many persons from severe injurleB suffered by the Soerifi" of Quebec. The Sheriffs pay no iniertst, and that is a gre..* object. A poor man who has nothing to live on but the interest of money due to him, might often starve before obtcining his right. In case of oppositions, which are frequent, the Sheriff was obliged to keep the money for years, it might be for five years. In the course of his business as a Notary, h ; had often known such cases. The property was always sold for cash, yet nothing could be obtained. He hoped the bill would pass, and it would then be seen whether the Council would con- cur with the voice of the Country, Mr. Oo.^KN remarked, that, by the law now in force, creditors '.vho held mortgages on real property, and became puichasersof it, were entitled to retain ; but this bill gave other creditors a chance of Hoing the same.— The propriety of this was doubtful. The person at whose suit the pro- perty was sold, obtained what it called good and sufficient security. But Parochial SuhH-vidom. iminal terms. 107 think ies nierlts so dear a^d indiKm M ''»'f"'«'^ ^^e bill, but he did not ivithout investigaUon »"'l'^P"t«l^l« "s to enUtle it to be hurried on A message was receivpd from H F tUa. ka^- • . instructions, relative to thl'SlllVlL^p'^^^ t).eA"^t:j:;;li:„^-;;^^- of the Government la,s before of the Commissions \riWcUrr^ '''^ '"«'•' <^«Pi«-^ i'ublic Accounts, and ;lf.s:etorGe,?er^^^^^^^^^^ "r i"''.^"^ General' of together with copies oftL nstn rtimfJ ; • f "''''^ I'rovmclal Accounts, I'-'ter officers for thei yiullnee To mrTio,? '1 ''''" «'^^" *° "'« ^wo bee,, given to the Heed" r (TeUral ^ bT hlu offi "''r'-"'''^*'"'' *" '''-^'^ tering upon his office in the year 18Qft .TJll J^^'"" ''"'""«• "" ^'^ en- «ciered it would be desLabll ti ]^h ' '"^^^'^'^. '."""^ rules that he con- Chest, and thot suS^^^^ P^y'««^^t8 from the copy of his letter, in wluch tlu-v ^^ I •**'''. "''"" ''"^« that tim. . a luteGovernor in6"ef:istn'2^^^^^ ^"^'"'"^'^ *-• ''- "PP-val of the dispat^hL^recllXtwt""^ ''.f 7f ^ ^^"^"^^'y <=''P'- "f several of September Tsll t^g r^efirc^ ol^^rce^^fTe p' '■' "'"" ^^ d rectmg payments to be made from he ffferrt ft^^^^^^ «"'« the Crown, and also copies of the warrants fronf?i!„. ^ f <^"'P"''«' "f for the appropriation of th.«e fnod? ^rthe X '12^'^^^^^ the Treasury reports of the Council mad^ in the m„mi? of n Y ' . " ^°P'"of two tern proposed for the audit of ti 'rpS' Aliir^ ''"'' "'"" * ^^^- Mr. V..UEK.8 brought in a bill for preventing fires in the woods m'^:?::;;^^;! tKr'fi;:^st:n'""vr ''- ^""•" ^'-» gate its power to Commisiione s, ad ref^r T^' '" np" "^'* *° "^'^'- position to many authorities in tl.P Frln ,^^*^'\ ^"^ confinnation of his «jch u delegatio'n vvithorb:;ra t^'t ^tl'^S r^.^ ""^ "^"^« "4'p ' 111 l^l i!*l ll>l Mii 108 Lands in free mid common Soccage. «ne/s were not legislative acts ; nnd, if they had been such, their nature would have been altered by the country's passing into the hands of another fovernment. The question had now changed its aspect. The King of Ingland, is not only the head of the Executive Power, but also, by the constitution, the head of the Church j and as such was entitled, with the concurrence of the Legislature, to regulate the boundaries of parishes. The. Legislative body, therefore, including his Miyesty, had a right to ^aiAitd in this matter according to their best judgment ; and in a subject orsuch vast importance, we ought not to seek for objections in ancient usa^}' or modern technicalities. The House divided and the bill was passed by a majority of 23 to one, (Mr. Borgia.) The bill for granting the benefit of counsel to prisoners on trial for felony; the bill continuing the Provincial Parliament in case of the demise of the King ; and the bill for the preservation of the salmon- fishery in the counties of Cornwallis and Nprthumberland ; were also passed and ordered to the Council. The bill for continuing the Session of the Provincial Parliament in case of the King's demise, gave rise to a discussion on the relative import of the words, death, deniiie in English, and mort, dSmistion in French, as used in the wording of the bill. It was observed, in accordance with autho- rities produced, that demise was equivalent to death, and limited by etiquette to royal personages. Demission was explained to mean resignO' turn or abdication ; but though used in this extended sense, was con- sidered, from the precedents referred to, as being the best translation of the English technical phrase demise. A motion was made, that the bill received from the Legislative Council, respecting lands in free and common soccage^ should be referred to a Special Committee. Mr. Viger said, that, by giving our approbation, we should sanction the act of the Imperial Parliament affecting the tenures of lands in this country. The interference of the British Parliament in the internal affairs of this country, ought in all cases to be opposed. If this was not don ;, there was an end to the liberties of the people. Mr. BouRDAOES thought a Committee of the whole House preferable io a Special one. Mr. Valmeres approved of this proposal, because, by referring this bill to a Special Committee, they might seem to pledge themselves to a principle which he hoped they never would adopt, namely, that the British Parliament had a right to decide on the bws of property in Canada. Mr, Neii-son did not see so much objection to the Special Committee, as to the bill itself. We were called upon in it to confirm and consolidate Register Offices. 109 anslation of the laws of England, as to lands xnfrce and common soccage. We should thus pronounce the English laws to be consistent with the civil law ia this country. If they were so, there was no need for us to declare it. He wished to see the Canada Tenures Act completely done away with This is what ought to be our object. We must not allow the slightest expression to escape us, that could be interpreted to imply an admlssioa of the right of the British Parliament to legislate in our internal We must protest against every such interference. We hay© ha entire management of our domestic concerns for nearly forty yeai^«HP« must now consider every interference with that management, as an infrac* tloii of our constitutional rights. There is nothing of which the English nation are so jealous, as of any atcempt of others to make laws for them. It is right that we should be equallyjealousof such attempts. In England* they are jealous of the power of the Crown ; here, we must bejealoul of the metropolitau Parliament. The necessity of a supreme power in both cases, is evident. But the power of the Crown has its limitations so has that of the Parliament of England as respects us. That Parliament may be called upon to amend our constitution, but it must be called upon by the colon* ttself. That Parliament may be called upon to decide upon diflFerences between British Provinces in North America, but the requisi- ticn must coms from the provinces themselves. He had no hesitation in saying, that the Canada Tenures Act bad invaded the rights of the pro- vince. Let us do nothing that shall wear the appearance of approv- ID^ ir^At Act* The House in Committee on the Gasp»^. Salmon Fisheries. Mr. Val- LiEius proposed as an amendment on the clause empowering Justices of the Peace in general Sessions, to make regulations as to the Fisheries • that such regulations should be submitted to the Provincial Parliament within a year after they were made, and that such only as received the concurrence of the Legislature, shall remain in force. The amendment passed. The blanks in the bill were filled up, and its duration limited to two years. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Only routine business this day. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Friday, Dec. 19. A bill for making mortgages special on all lands in free and common soccage, and for establishing register- offices for the same, was received irom the Council. i '111 II f* m \\ Mil 1 10 Quarter Sessions, Sgc. in Counirij.Parishes. Mr. BoLunA(;F.s presealnd a pptilion from divers Inhabilants of I^ongue Pointe, &c. against tiie establishmaiU of a turiipike-road from Lougue Toiiite to Montreal. Mr. BouRDAGES moved for a Committee of the whole House, on Mon- day, to consiilir the expediency of erecting Court-houses and Gaols, in th^nost populous parts of the Province the most distant from Qutfbec, 3|M|r^.l and Three-Kivers, so that Quarter-Sessions of the Peace may HK^V:.V.eld for the trial of minor otTences. Mr. VioER objected to this proposition, as it did not extend to civil matters, which he thought it ought to embrace. Mr. BouRDAGES had expected that every measure tending to facilitate the administration of justice would have had Mr. Viger's support. He hud often laboured in that flouse to remedy the many abuses which pre- vailed, none of these were more pernicious than to cause those who were accused of minor offences, to be transported a great distance, with their prosecutors, witnesses, &c. The provisions made in the bill for the better administration of justice in civil causes, would give facilitied to the present measure. Sherifl's and officers would be found in the Circles — and the machinery of that bill might be applied, in many respects, to the holding of Quarter Sessions of the Peace in the Circles. No one would defend the present system — a delinquent accused of a petty theft was hurried to Montreal or Quebec, the witnesses were kept there for days, and even weeks, and after all, perhaps no indictment was found, and the expense and trouble were useless. As to blending the measure with one for deciding minor civil causes, he should have despaired of success bad he proposed it. Mr. ViGER still thought the proposal was not general enough. He gave credit to the Hon. gentleman for his exertions. He too had not been idle in this large field — he had for years been lifting up the veil, and shewing the deformities and defects in the administration of justice. It was a snbject which had employed his studies day and night ; and even if mea- sures brought forward appeared to him imperfect, he would do all he could to aid them, as being part of a general system of reform of abuses* Dr. Blancuet considered the proposal as imperfect. Courts in distant Districts ought not be established alone for trifling thefts or misde- moanours, but they ought to be for the general administration of justice both in civil and criminal cases. His opinion and that of his constituents was that Justice should be brought home to every man's door throughout the country ; people should not be forced to go 60, 80, or 100 miles, or perhaps twice that distance, as was now the case, to obtain justice. But how was that to be done ?— not merely by pasiiug laws in the Assembly for M Provincial Court of Appeals. '^'oti:r,';;::,Z:^^^^^^^^^ -"*^ that of .ecm, Coure. tion of justice. We fh^l maX T^T"'^'*'""'' f°' ^''« ^d-^mi,?/*. . should endeavour to do alrthL nHJ^T? ''^''"P'« «*» P«"'b«e J and prevailed bet^reen the citlw Ld th« - * '/i^°" '"'''"'• '"'** t°^ '»"« >nents It was time to d tJ^y that d1."£r''''''"'/"'* ''"**"* »«*""! discord and jealousy. ^ tlat distinction, so fruitful a 8otti6«, of ao QMfl ol ow ifwas Inctpfc^r,^^^^^^^^^^^^^ see ho';Va, was to prevent this measure from goin« fe^Se * durl '^^}^ '""*' "^^ ^^at he House. The hon. member fSJlCentha^. ^ '*' P'^*""*"" t'»'-o"g»» euglhs in his efforts to advan" the better .1^-? '^'"'' *"** '""'^''ble in his billon that subject he slw no nrlJ ?'"'V'''i'**" of justice-but tion of his system of ju i^e-^^wiK heZS ""^^ ^ '^' accommoda. gaols in the circles he proposeX^to thJ ^h MV'^ Jf **>« ^'^^^^ou of which might be built ovTrX prisons andt?r ^" ''^^'^ Court-houses, i«one building. It would be comolt'^f «very accommodation included motion in the CommiUee. ^""P**''"* ^'^ *"y "ember to make such a Fr£lyS(7 '""'"*" ' '■"'" theassociatiou of the Quebec The following bills were passed and ordered to the Council -^ bj' the loan of wheat and other corn .eed? ""• *" "''eving the poor and necessitated, this mea Jtel^tZ- a *""""' "^^^""^ '"»d led to, jurisdiction and FacirofX^pre^enT^ort'ofT'' TV"" ""^'^'^ '^^ incompetent and oppressive the obTectwabv ilT^' •"'^ '''^" ^°""'» associate Judges, expressly for thaE,,T I xl ® "PP^'ntment of two Judge from efch'of tL diJtr ^ ts of Que^^^^^^ Ta Montl'T^ T'**" '' * -p.aons which at present hung o^eTttcoZt oX-^ of^ [Si^! Ap^ealJ'^^slo'Xte^fur^^^^^^ a Provincial Court of him, how we should'd semlr^ ZZI'TI'!: "^'.^ ?»?»-" with which lay against the present C^rofippelrnir^^^^^ '^■^•="*'" provision was made in this bill aMln^t fh.f^h- '.• ^.*'® '^^ **"»* any S' 'r^r riie^si?™ ^- ^^ ^-? A^ lid ProviftciAl Court of Appeals. Bit , 1 ' in I appointed-no doubt they iwould be good men and good Judge»--inen of law and high standing— but what was to guarantee oa from their being rendered incompetent, a& it were, to act without prejudice and partiality, by beioK called to the CoiincU ?— He was borne out in this by the report of the Quiada Committee. He would not consent to a bill which would augment the number of the Judges, without disqualifying them from being members of the Ouncil. Mr. Vailieres said, that it would be competent for the hon. member to mow in the Committee for a clause to exclude the Judges of the Court of Appeals from being members of the Councils— in such a clause h^ would himself concur-for it was his firm opinion, that in order to render the administration of justice complete, the Judges should not meddle with politics, or be called upon for their adtice on political questions, how much soever they were priper and fit to give their aid and opinions on legal points. Mr. OoDEN observed, there were but two ways of doing a thing— the right way and the wrong way. Judges had not a right to sit in the House of Assembly, and he should be inclined to say, from a parity of reasoning they also ought not to sit in the Legislative Council j but this was not the way to exclude them. We must hold fast by the prerogative of the Crown as much as we do by the rights of the people. There were two ways, and it would be the wrong one to make any statute which in- fringed on that prerogative ;— the right way was for the House to address his Majesty to exclude Judges from seats in the Councils. No doubt it would be duly considered— and no doubt the Crown would, for the gene- ral benefit, in this instance, waive the exercise of its prerogative of choosing its counsellors— but it would be encroaching on that prerogative to say, that such and such persons shall not sit in the Councils — the King has a right to call any of his sabjects to a seat in any of his Councils. Butwefinduothiogin the Constitutional Act of this Province that will warrant such an interference with the prerogative. He denied the right of interfering with it* but admitted in full the privilege of petitioning against its exercise, in any instance where it was supposed to be prejudi- cial to the public interest. For his own part, he wpuld second any mo- tion which should have for its object an enquiry into the inexpediency of Judges holding seats in the Legislative and Executive Councils ; and would go to the whole length of supporting that doctrine ; but he would never consent to a sweeping clause in any bill by which the prerogative of the Crown was invaded, and by which we took upon ourselves to exclude from his Majesty's Councils any person he might think fit to call to them. With regard to the bill itself, he admitted the principles on which it was founded— he wished it to pass. It is assuring to the country a Court of ultimate jurisdiction; less liable to objection than that which has hitherto Provincial Court of Appeals, us thmte mtt T^ f*'t''«'t7a;d» the due admini.tratron of jasUce tnanthe biU for that purpose before the House. That was a bill for wnicn would arise from the erection of no less than 113 new offices to ba to this bill, he d d not see why the aswciate Judges ofh U (Surt SouW not also be criminal Judges in other Courts. He* did not coTelle wl^ an appellant, had to do with a criminal, jurisdiction 'which rendl« S«! inconsistent with each other. The Judies of tWs Iw V A„^^^^ doubt would be handsomely paid-and*::Lyought-^^^^^ .kewlse to work, and here would be five JudgeJ who woZhatrKt forty causes to t.y in a year. Give therefore, thew^associate J«di£ a tTn'T.™ {"''L^'^r i" *'"™'"*^ «««» lno\herCour!!Sey1SuId then be employed. The bon. member for Kent had, on a former iclion twelve Judges. Now we had already eleven-fby this bill two mwJ j^ouW be added, and two more by the bill introduc^ed by the hoo. ^em! ber for Kent, which would make fifteen in all. That they ooZJ^Uo Ti "t!? '„d 5*'*°'i !r?J^''*P*"^''°*' "^ ""^' concede-^SrtS more el^ J^^M S; .„'r^ '^^ *i''k '.?**^°" ""** circumstances, the less suspicioa could be entertained by the country that it might not receive jusUce at Avoided! """Itiplication of office ought, neverthefesCto be Mr. QuESKEL said it could not be denied that the Ministers in Enriand have not only now had cognizance of the evils that prevailed in the admi, nistration of justice here, but the report of the Canada Committee shewed that the grievances of the country were felt there, as well as the desire of redressing them. Amongst the grievances represented, the sitting oftlw Judges m the Councils was a prominent one. If we can not dlny thj prerogative of the Ci«wn, neither can we deny the rights of the people oa the other hand; nor that the case in question was one which pwsed strongly for reform. We can not certainly exclude from the Councils those Judges who have already seats there; but he did not see whv w« might not say to any new Judges, you shall have your salaries onl> on condition that yon do not sit there. ' " Mr. VAI.I.IEBE8 thought the learned Solicitor General would not con, sider that remonstraiing against the undue exercise of any prerogative of the Crown was unconstitutional or improper-nor that to petition His Majesty to abandon a part of his prerogative which was found detrimental to his people, would be disrespectful or irrelevant ; now he would contend that every bill presented to His Majesty by any of his Pariiaments, was, in fact, a petition, and partook so much of the nature of a petition that it rested upon the Royal will to grant it or not. If such a clause were in- Mil Wi Sir; 1: 'I' t * .=J! 114 Provincial Court of Appeals. serted in the bill, it would, in fact, be a petition from the Legislature to the King not to allow the Judges in this Province to sit in Council ; and he contended it was a respectful as well as a constitutional mode of peti- tioning the Crown, and it is a petition of the greater weight, inasmuchas It comes, not from individuals, but from a co-ordinate branch of the Legis- lature. With respect to the King's prerogatives, those were only given to him for the good of the people— they have been declared to be not inher- ent in the Crown— the people, that is the three branches of the Legisla- tuie conjointly, had a controuling voice over them. The prerogat'ves of the Crown had in former times been much stretched ; and there had lieen a long continued struggle to confine them within proper limits, to abridge them, to hem them in, to besiege them as it were, and blockade them on all sides, so that they might nc t endanger the liberties of the people. As to the number of judges, the 'solicitor General had not stated the matter correctly— his reasoning was ulausible, that as twelve Judges were enojgh for the whole of England, eleven were enough for us— but the statement was erroneous, instead of twelve there were more than twenty, for besides the twelve in England, there were four for the principality of Wales, and separate Judges for the counties palatine of Durham, Lancaster andChester, to say nothing of the ecclesiastical courts and those of chancery aud vice admiralty. Mr. Ogdew could not agree that it was constitutional to attack the prerogative of the King by means of a bill— nor to the position, that a bill passed in that House might be considered a petition. But the hon. member forgets another branch of the Legislature which must be con- suited; a branch instituted for the preservation of the balance between the others, to prevent both the Commons from encroaching on the Execu- tive and the Executive from encroaching on the Commons— a branch which has as great a right to discuss all matters regarding both, as the House had, excepting in originating any money-bills. Exceptions make i-uies, and the Legislative Council had the right to make any amend- ments they choose in other bills— and would do so, he conceived, whenever they, found the House invading the prerogatives of the Crown. A case in point had occurred in the Province before. Judges had been re- turned as members to sit in that House— and the House came to a resolu- tion that Judges had no right to sit. What was the consequence? A dis- solution of the Parliament. The House here had taken a right from the people, who were not constitutionally bound to refrain from electing Judges to be members. In the following Parliament, a message was sent down to the House, intimating that if they proceeded in a constitutional manner, the measure would be acquiesced in. The House came to its senses— (A cry of order and hear him '.)— He was not out of order— he spoke fearlessly, and would repeat it— the House came to its senses, and proceeded by bill, and not by resolution. The constitutional mode npw to be followed, would be to address His Majesty not to admit Judges into i Quebec General Hospital, ng ^^^,^^;::^l^ ^A'^e. .aviog .e.t.ia approach the throne-represent what vn"??"".'' ^° ^°"'^ "'^ond it- prerogatlTe, but do not .Kp To aS it bv T^l }^' *?f'^'" <>^*'>« have no authority. ^ " " "J" ■" ««* 'w i»hich you can Mr.VioEBasked what the royal preroMtUa »». ««i. ... sonal power and influence which the lXA«*«fK* ?.''«^*»>»n that per- of the people ? and if any branch of thl ^ZlJ!"^ '^'"«/?'' ^^^ b«"«fit people, they had a right to curtail U Bllir* '^ "f! '"J"''<>"» *« the prerogatife could only be exerted <^*" ♦?- -^ ^'°^^* *''** *''« Solicitor General advLs a„ Sidi" Ind oJ'.?*' °' *''f '"^J^'^*- The K ng may, if he likes, say thrjuS sha» not TZ-'^^k" n"*""' *»"»» »»•« King may say so, cert'ainly a law to be enacted bv th ^!k^°""'"- ^^ '^^ sayso-andifitdid. would not the Kinrhii? \^u^ *?''**' estates may is a rule both for KingTd peoDle ' 3^ ^ •^?' *''*'^'''^ ^ •»'^ laws have been made forffiii/hrr f°''^* "*'" "''«'^' *»»»* many Solicitor General had a pecuUarmethoH T Pf*''^**"^*- The learned always treat a matter of SlZ^el^S. th^^^^^^^ '"^^^'^ ^'^ "ot we want what he himselwSwhrr5helr'''^'l"\"'''''''-- »'«''*"''« Committee have recommended what the K?f .^'"V'*"'* *''« Canada apply for it -we are attacking tlTerLa^^ nr * '•'•"""^f ^i" grant if we happiness to live under a consritutLn^J^Jh-LT*''^' ^"* ^« ^ave the sentatives, are allowed to judge wbJ? is^brst' t th/'°^''' '^^ 'i'" '«?'«• men good-and, when concurred !nW th Vu *'»1"»«'''«8 and the com- lature, to enact 'what is r^ht for t e wL le wthou.'"';?'" °i *''*' '^''g"- •Dfringement of the rights of, any one bran'ch? '**''" *^«'°* *°' «' tho^Lfo^fSn^VThts!^:^ Wesleyan Me- to the Episcopal and PresbyteTn Sches in Can?^^^^ «» that the bill on this subject formerly brought n a^' '* ^" '^marked HisMajesty'sapprobation, hadTledTomr' "^ «?"*«<> England for the Legislative Council, a^d becauL^^the l.T'^'^T"*' P'-^P"^^^ i" denominations which wire included there „ ^Sri"""^""^ ''"'^"♦••'« hundred denomi.^tlons of dissenters enrerltel-the Z%"ameV'r °"^ of which were wholly unknown at hnmp nn^ s* u 1 1 ^ *"®' of many «rved let each par.iL.r.ecUp'pVbriiTel?'"' """ '"°'»"' °'"- Ho!pturQi?cTi5;rv3:c?e?Sd'rh7Hot,T'\^'^ n« wa, no other GenerriXSun qX "^i ''r"''"'/«'"^- -I 'if- rifc llfsK -t^ '% y4li 116 Quebec Genemi Hoipital. therefore had to wander about the city, and endangered ita general health. The Ilospital now proposed was chiefly for seamen and liolc emigrants. The opinion of merchants had been called for, and it appear- ed that when seamen belonging to ships in port were sick, they could not be taken care of in private houses but at an expense of 6s., 78., and even 8s., a day. If we were to impose a small tonnage duty on all vessels, which he would propose should be 10s. for every 100 tons burthen — which the merchants who had been examined, considered as reasonable, it would make ^1000 to defray the expenses — which would be more than wanted. As to the buildings, commissioners might be appointed with an authority to borrow money — and with the donations, which it might be reckoned would be bestowed on the hospital, by subscription, legacy or otherwise, there would be a sufficiency for all purposes. Mr. CuTiLLiER suggested that it would be proper to impose a higher tonnage-duty on those ships which brought sick persons, whether seamen or emigrants, than on those which did not. There was a great distinction to be made, he thought, between ships that brought emigrants, and those employed in the freightage of goods. But generally he thought it impolitic to augment the port-duties. Ships were even now much dis- couraged by their being so heavy at Quebec, and many preferred Mi- rimicbi, and the lower'ports, on that account. Mr. Speaker Papineau was in favour of the measure, and argued that the dovelopement of the resources and prosperity of the country would require a proportionate increase of accommodation of this kind. Nut twenty years ago, fifty or sixty ships were the average number that ar- rived at the port of Quebec ; now they amounted to several hundreds and were annually augmenting. The rapid settlement of a new and large extent of country would have its natural consequence ; ships and seamen would be doubled, and double accommodation must be given to them. No port that he knew of had less accommodation in that respect than Quebec ; an inconvenience which ought not to be longer endured. He thought the measure should be extended, and that the lumbermen and raftsmen who repaired hither from the Upper Province and from the States, should also be considered — it might be practicable by a light tax upon the lumber brought down to secure their relief in case of sickness. . Mr. Solicitor General understood the measure would be so worded, as to include beside sick seamen, other sick strangers and non-residents ' — now he had heard nothing of the ways and means proposed for the re- lief of any besides seamen — and he conceived it would be unjust and im- practicable to call on the shipping interest to pay a tonnage-duty for re- lieving others — that tonnage-duty ought to go exclusively to the relief of seamen, and other ways aud means should be resorted to for the rest, iJ'i! 1 '' U|)j4 j B *^ ! ftkioi iS^^ MH[ PM 1 Montreal Gaol. m e4™'r.S\r:^^^^^^^^ S:'y ^^^ f^^r^y or thee.,, public, the public ought to pay first S^L^n *T/k'' *'"' ««od <»f the themselves-andas to raftsme? h\Jv T''' ''* P^vlded for by grant-, hospital and offert p JVor .'dml.'ir"/^'" '' "'''y *" *''« "-"'^ and were not unwilling to payLperJao, t '« 7« ^"^ 5!.:"'"^ '"»'* """"'r be imposed on -hip. that brought emtan!-. "*' "'«'^' Mr. Neimon said there ousht to be twn !,«-..•* i patient., and one, a lazarett?, for co„ta,Tou. ^^^^^^^^^ «T"» be irery proper he thought to ta« the «hin« Ih-! h u. * '* ^°"'«' "«>« tax would in fact fall on the emVra„t. hli. '^'■°"«ht emigrant.. The malce it up bv char.ina more nZll^ themseUe.. as the captain would thing to encourag?, iSSo^f S,uraZr"-^ "? ""^''^ '» ^^ ^'^'X tion and settlement of the country?* *' e^'grat.oa and the popula- passed, and refeire^t'o a c'ommlttee ^ te"'w[^'" V''":'^«''''-^»-» ^" into the probable expense oH ect^a tLh^ ? "'structions to enquire most convenient mode^fpr:;idltfof the e.^^^^^^^^^^^^ -quired, and the HouL%feecrio?aTMtre:i^ ^'^ ""'^^^ -'Pecting a Gaol and The following Resolutions were proposed by Mr. Quesnel, 1st. That the gaol of Montreal is insufficient and that !t !a „- construct a new one sufficiently spacious for t^e;:'pttlrnS^ '' prolc^e''* *'' '"' ''''''' ^"S''' *° '^^ »>-" »t the expense of the 4VL^\urAhrp:S?o^f ^runV^n-dTe"? 'Z'''' ''-' walls tosurround it, and^uch as are wanr;;:''drwdet c^rt^Lj: ''' f'.\\f.:tfo2\:t^^^^^^^ exceeding above purposes, the revenue of ea^chyeSr to be charged ii^' ^'' *'' thai, such annual amount of 5^6666 13s.4d. *"'*'S^** ^'th no more '■■J ^1' ^! 118 Monireai GaoL «i't,i ^ . ii In dUcuising (heie Resulutioni, Mr. Qoesnei eiposed the very defec- tire state of the present gaol, its insufficiency to contain the increased num- ber of prison ra, and to secure them. Escapes had been frequent, and ■8 there were no surrounding walls, and the sewers in a bad state, through nvhich many attempts at escape had been made, it was scarcely possible by any vigilance to guard against them. The gaol was ill constructed and unhealthy ~ prisoners being deprived of all means of air and eiercise, wrhich the reports of the physicians fully confirmed. There were no means of classing the prisoners properly. The accused were inter- mingled with convicts— men, women, boys, girls, all were to be met ivith, even lunatics, and outrageous madmen were confined there. The prison was also used for a House of Correction, and there would be found there an union of all that is bad in both sexes. The plan for a new gaol by the late Mr. George Blaicklock, had been most approved of.— It embraced that desirable object, the classification of the prisoners, and separate wards would be found in it, for debtors, for minor offenders, for accused persons, for convicted felons, &c. Court-yards for the dif- ferent classes would be found included within the surrounding wall. There would be an infirmary, and a large room in the upper story for a chapel. It would be substantial, safe and spacious, as well as comfortable for the prisoners. ' Mr. BoRoiA remarked, that it was now only eighteen years since that prison had been built — and it was now declared insufficient, and in a state of decay — he hoped in the new edifice they would employ builders and use precautions, to prevent an early recurrence of the same necessity. But this was unfortunately too often the case with public buildings in this country. He did not think it just the province should pay for this new prison ; he would be an advocate for each district to pay for its own prison ; it would be more just that the expense of buildings for local purposes should be defrayed by the districts in which they were situated. The rich and populous district of Montreal could easily afford to pay this exper.se. Mr. ViGER said, this prison was required in a district whose population was full half of the population of the whole province — and was a popula- tion that was formed not only from its own inhabitants strictly r iVuiir, but by a confluence from the other districts — from Upper Canpdt from the adjoining States of New Yoik and Vermont. — Mon' • • u'« centre which drew persons from all parts around it. That uie ytisoa must be spacious there could be no doubt, as it must serve for convicts from all parts of the country. It would be a prison in the utility of which Quebec as well a'j Montreal was concerned. It was for the benefit of the whole, and the province ought natiu-aUy to pay for it. ftj Montreal Gaol. 119 thlJln?!^ obsened, the people of Montreal were for h.f hig eTery th ng on a large scale ; they must have a rant church for the soulsf and I to VhSl Vi? '°!;^"'' *'•" ^°^^"' "^^'^""^ ^'"' ^"« represented as flocklnj to their city, as to a centre of attraction-there seems to be a kind of magic circle there, in which are raised, as by enchantment, mawlficent ?or"[he b^nTfi'j' nKP"rr' "*»'"^'" ""^ ^•"'-''' ^^«^'' •- all TaS L. ZlfL^ V^'' '''''°'*' P'o^'nce-bot the money Is laid out there. In eighteen year, the present gaol was unfit for them-»o might the next and so might tlie next, to the end, if we chose to pay for their exIensUe projects We wer, divided Intothree dl,trlct.--an^d might be consfdetS as three families relav.ns, but atlll different families sStCled In different Tu' '''t^^' 'T""'^ P*y ^"^ '*' *»^» »»"»dlngs. In a few yea™ we shall probaMy experience the same want here-ln fifty years hence per! hapn ihis new and spacious gaol may be found to be too small. We ouirht not tc vote money so heedlessly. If required to do so, his answer woild always be no, no, no. ' "« wuum ,.^'' ^^,}'!'}\ djs?8'eed with the hon. gent, who spoke last, as to the different districts being required to pay their own local expenses. If this were carried to its extent, you might say let each district pay the salaries of its own judges-and surely no one would think that right. Such a plan would be a signal for awakening and bringing more into contact the jealousies that already exist between different portions of the country. Mr. Speaker Papineau said, the jealousies and animosities that pre- vailed between districts and sections of the country, as to their resDec- tive shares in the expenditure of the public money, ought not to be revived and counteract that which was evidently for the beuefit of the whole If we were to allow that local erections should be made at the expense of the parties in their immediate vicinity, it would follow, that no work of public advantage could be prosecuted, if the parties composing the locality could not afford to pay for it-a proposition as absurd, as it was impo^! sib e. Sjuch local distinctions tended to create and perpetuate antipathies jealousies, and misconstructions, between branches of the same family' But let us examine the question in its proper light. It Is one for the gene- ral good— and all are required to contribute towards it. But who con- tribute more to increase the general revenue of the province than the people of the d'fitrict of Montreal? Look at the proportion of imports whf jc( the revenue was derived. He feared no contradiction when he stated, that two-thirds of the whole arose from Montreal. It is not surely the merchants who import that we must look at, but the consumers—it is they, in fact, who pay the duties— and the greater the population, the more duties are paid. We are now paying taxes which the Parliament of lingiand have impose^Jipon us, malgrS.mus, taxes, in the shape of duties on imports, and, therefore, legal, but wholly inconsistent with the state of \mn /I* f t i i it' 1 ^^ 120 Montreal Gaol. trade anu the wants of (he country : let us take care that these tasef , so imposed rualgri nous, shall be expended for our benefit. We hate ^lOOiOOO now in the chest of the Receiver General. This money was t Jsed'fron' the people — let it be expended for the benefit of the people. He certainly could not coincide in the idea that the divf ^n of the Pro- vince into separate districts, created distinct families. . a few years we inust have more sub-divisions, and our families would i >;iease in propor- tion — yet, it is one and the same— it is all one population— old settlers, isatigrants, all formed but one family — and it was not so much the interest of the locality in wLich improvements weie made, which was consulted in those improvements, but the public good. It might, perhaps, at a future time, be a matter of consideration, that, although the prisons of the three chief districts ought to be erected at the public expense, whether those of the inferior districts, \vhich were only for minor offences, should not be borne locally. This, howaver, was not now to be con!:idered. Mr. VAtLiEBF^ had often heard in thot House, that Montreal had more than its share of the public money appropriated for public purposes, and he had as often heard the Montreal gentlemen reply, that they had not fot their share, considering the wealth and population of that district. — erhaps there might be some propriety in discussing the local share which districts had in such distribution—it was not proper or fit, however, in the present instance, or at the present moment. It would not be honourable for us, Quebeckers, to object to a grant for a prison at Montreal, when ours had been built at the expense of the province. A local district tax for such a purpose would be doubly disadvantageous, as, in the first place, he did not think it could be made to suffice, and secondly would be always an object of antipathy and jealousy, between districts, which ought all to be united as one. As a whole, the people of Montreal or Quebec, pay in the shape of duties, more than they ought— more than they ever con- sented to — more than was required— let iis get back as much as we can of these imposts, indirectly if we can not otherwise. In this respect, let us be unanimous — get it back, — no matter who profits individually, or locally — get it back for the benefit of the whole. The time will come ihat all the districts, both those existing and those hereafter to be created, will find that they are all one — when that times comes, it is not Quebec and Mont- real that will be foremost, but all will be equal in the strife to support each other. The time will come too, when we here shall be under the same pressing necessity as the district of Montreal was, with respect to a goal ; and he was sure when that time came, Montreal would not be backward in bearing its share in providing for it. There was a pressing and indispensable necessity for a new gaol in Montreal — and locality ought Dot to be considered in voting money for such purposes: 121 was Chamhltf Canal, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, pa^, »^L ™^dt„t "" '•""^"°" •" «" Montr™. Lib™^ HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Satcbday, Dec. SO. Mr. BoBoiA presented a petition from inhabitants nf r«. «- that the persons who subscribed a certarenm^^^^ quired land to erect it upon, may beincZomTi !;^°"^S«' ^^^ had ae. sistance > also another peHt on from CornwaSL "'^ P'^y^S Pecuniary as- of a Court of Justice a^nd jjiboTh pS^^efS^ *'^ "*'''"»''^"« Mr. Vallieres moved an address tn H w ►- . -, for making the Chamblv canal and M 2 ^- '° "''""'"y '"*° effect the acts the improvement ofThe navigation onhTr^T"' ^^ '=°'»™««oner9 for ceived H. M.'s assen but Z? nn? /t ««=heheu. These acts had re- it was much wisheTl.;'irtSsrtirn^'fTh?coi^ '''^^""^'^ co^ini^rtrrix t^rpra?, L'^^' -^>r ? ; ^^^^^-^ proposed beinff executed na «^!ii «» 11^**"*^ P'"°P'*-«*y "^^he work was^ecessary^o modffy ouHmnroi^^'T"'" *''''' ^""'^ «'^'«"'' '*• '* This canal would entafl ZSZl T^ according to our resources, only the advantages "x^ecSto a' ?v?f"^ \*l'S" expenditure, and not meet the advance! reqSrdTshLTbTl^^^^^^^^ "^^ "-"" -« »>-<' »« thetn?n^r3rifT:td nof bet' .^^^•^'^*";S TI^ ^^ »>-e passed and utility of the canaL W th Jesnert L'T'' ''°'^ ""^'^^ Practicability itself provided how it was to b. 7ff *'?' "°"'y .required, the act taken from the unappropriated rLn V.^'^p* •""*"'" """^ ^*» *» be not been till af/tr iV.^ vf- "^^^"enueof the Provmce annually. It had hrpreiiLi8?3 aKtir'^ discussion in the House thS the but tantUofthe^c'o^un;;^^?^^^^^^^^ -t;?o"rnrlftr;thTle°iet^^^^^^ TT ^^^^''^ "P-'^-^ costiwardsof ^100 oSo aXC ;aV£^^^^^^^^^ J*'^^'*^ =^^:tnrSp:!^irs^^^^ ?iti^^^; and he did not kn;VEt"L''t^^^^^^^ of greater dimensions made. We do not^ know fo'Sex tTnt ITIZ iifS '^i 'f! i ;i f£ ' %' H'^ ' ' fl' 123 Chambly Canal. |i||i be forced to go when once we began -, and how we were to get the money for these expensive undertakings, he could not tell. We must inevitably have recourse to taxes to effect them. This act had lain dor- mant five years, which was no great proof of its execution being required 80 pressingly. Mr. Vallieres was astonished at the difference of the ideas as to our resources between those which prevailed yesterday, and those expressed to-day. Yesterday we voted freely ;g20,000— certainly for a very im- portant object, the gaol of Montreal, and it was roundly maintained that we had J^100,000 surplus in the public chest j and now that an act, which had stood on the statute-boof five years, was called upon to be executed, and that part of the surplus which had been appropriated to- wards its execution, to be applied for that purpose, we were to hesitate, and determine whether what was law should be executed or not. Mr. BotmoAGES said it was easy to account for the measure having lain by for five years. It should be recollected that the Chambly canal could not be began till after the Lachine canal was finished — that was the con- dition expressed j and the Lachine canal could not be said to have been completed till last year. When an additional sum was applied for and voted in order to complete the Lachine canal, it was granted upon the un- derstanding that the Chambly canal should follow in its turn. It had been stated the Lachine canal was ill made— if so, it only gave more reason tt make the Chambly canal better. The hon. member wished for an en- quiry to decide whether an act passed long ago should be carried into effect or not : — if we wanted to do away with that act, let him move for its repeal. But it was an act that had been passed with connoissance de cause — the legislature had concurred in deciding its utility, and his Ma- jesty's sanction proclaimed, in addition, how desirable it was. Mr. Lee was an advocate for all improvements of this nature, and par- ticularly for such as had the local recommendation, which the Chambly canal had. It should be an object now to encourage as much as possible the opening of communications on the south side of the St. Lawrence j for hitherto both the attention of the Provincial Government and of the Government at home had been moat given to the north side. With re- spect to the attention of the British Government so bestowed., in a mili- tary and political point of view, it had probably been very proper : but if we consider the question in its local and commercial bearings, and ex- amine the proceedings of the House of Assembly, it would be seen that every thing had been done for the north side, and nothing for the south. He had himself a considerable local knowledge of those quarters, but even the mere inspection of the maps must satify every one that it was from the south that the chief current of trade must flow to us. The natural course of things must be that a great part of the produce of the Northern Chdifilily Cattht. m whether Montreal ^ry other p ace C^^ T^ ^T}' ^°« •"'^'^^ent rican goods. If a coSun cation bet^^^^^ Joh^fJ'/S^' ^ ,^"'*- proposfed. he should as cheerfully votrfrit /A " ' ri/y^"!"""^ J^'*"* bly canal. As to the funds frftsconstrd^H^^^ and with regard to the appt^Ln oHe n^nerSd TJrTi"^'^^ canal ; ft had been ill expended, could nouha^eenl^'dtto^'T^^^^ IS an existmglaw, and it is nothing but a reasonable Vpn. 1!? ? . u" Mr. QcfiSNEt said the Lachine canal had been fSnlahpH #d,„ . If it turned out inefficient for the purposes coSS»Sl»i. ^^'''^' ""'* there was for opening other and bS'nlets ?orT£nal ^nlT' '■''"°! the more reason for emiuirinff whv X rV« i!i ,*^^'"'"^'^®» *"'* Lachine canal^as much as had been said aeainsTk WhL ^ ^~™ *i^ lerniptta. Jhe large schooners of 150 tons which naviirated ui. B-i. and would be admitted throuirh the W-ll.n,! ™.i ""s"'™ •'"Ke Erie, come down to Quebec, uSS the Laehf "e ISwl; V£^'^^\T lopposed would one day or other be the eaw ■ d„ .f! ' "^'°''. '"' Ws of40 ton, cojtld eW on Jg^aUntSt^de ° He'tErht-tr a7"oj\h7C';rtiS^ve;r£slrl''r„°^^^^^^ fe»s,'rr "'-"'"'•"'''*'' '^"--^;^.- re.ts^^b'^-uXirtrnrbrer^^^^^^^ should be executed. It would be indecorous at'leas to ref2r a law th« had been passed after due consideration, to a Committee of enouTr^ Here 13 a law that the Executive has le t unaccomXshed for S~ months, and it is the duty of the House to serthafiJ^be accomDH^^^^^^^^ wL'r?hrtx.L"''j'V^ 'r °''^^'"^- 'i^hi:irru'.!taLing advantal-t ofVhf. .\'''''r'' ^'"^ "S° ^°"^^ ^^ conducive to thf ?n iS °Vhe country, and we can not now consistently declare thafc cono^f ' ^'^ ^^ then declared to be good. It was weVto c„„s de revem7fr ^«=°"o""y ^.d not consist in withholding our surp us- a ure to T ''^^''f " '"^''\ *''^ ''''" ^'''^'""'^ dcterminfd by the LeS - lature to be advantageous for the increase f.f commerce/and of The Q ■i :,p ~m- 124 Chambly Canal. n, ' resources of the country; which this canal would be by drawing the American trade from Lake Champlain into the Province. Objections w«e made, at the time, to the expense, to obviate which t was modified To tLTnone should be incurred till after the Lachine canal was finished That is now finished, and we are told that part of the money is not yet paW He need not enquire the reasons why the Executive had not done ks duty as to this canal-he could tell them-it was because an adm.nis- J i^JmVprwhkh such epithets had ^ee" bestowed as he wou^^^^ reoeat. found it more convenient to spend ^100,000 or ^150,000— ot thCblic ™oney, in every other way than according to the wishes or forthe advantage, of the country. That is the reason why the^te a^- ministration ha! violated this law, as it has several others. I has been "serted that the Lachine canal is ill f "st'^'^teV^^PP^^^l*" ^Vn? that is no reason why it should not still be part of the chain of c^"^""'- cation from Lake Erie. Even were all the money laid out on the Lachine canaUonTdered as lost, that could be no reason for "otj^on^^/'^^^;'"!*^^ Chambly canal, and constructing it on a better plan. He did not mean to deny that, whatever could make the Lachine canal a means of com- munication^ith the great lakes, and the vast interior of Upper Canada ought to have the preference : but that was now in progress ; and the opfnineoftheChamblv canal would be another link to the chain, and te^SKe advantage of the whole Province. He did not think it right to enter into any question as to the population of any particular portion of the country, or the number of canals or internal communications, and the money kid out on them, in particular localities, or whether the north side of the St. Lawrence was more favoured in that respect than the south side We are not, as had yesterday been said, three distinct families, divided into three different districts-we are all one family— the districts a Inot one to the other, elder or younger brothers, neither fP'f "«;"«; step-fathers, and we ought to expunge from our Varliamentary laj^guage in that resoect such words, as the district of Montreal, the district of Quebec t^c^Uy of this, and the city of that. We had ^100.000 in the Sic chest-it ought to be laid out for the good of the whole , which we shall be doing, if we cause this law, which appropriates part of it, to be executed-a law that is neither repealed, nor proposed to be repealed. Mr ViGEH thought that the expense of this proposed canal was not necessary. A large proportion of produce was stated, or supposed, to be derived from Lake Champlain : he had had occasion, to make enquiry and satisfy himself in this particular- it was very unimportant- it was Sing Particulariy now, at a time when the Government of the United Stages places every obstacle possible in the way of the importation of English goods into their territories. In the present state of our conimer- cial relations with America, can we expect tnat the same quantity of pro- duce, which it was anticipated five years ago would come to us by meani r- Chamhly Canal 1^5 h!»w.!n Jr ^J V r"^*^ "°^ come? A comparison had been made between he north and the south side of the St. Lanrence. In his opinion! the attention of Government had been wisely drawn to a point, wh ch both m a commercml and military point of view, was of the utmost ' im- portance The deficiency and difficulty of communication had heTu" felUht ^''i ^ •"?« *•:,' »-«' American wlr. The English MiSy had ?r./'T;'^"'"'-^-''?°P*''l th°«e -"^asures which would remed/that defect. These pnnciples and measures were followed up by the distin- gu^hed military minister now at the head of the English Government! and no man could understand belter than the Duke of Wellinffton what the grand interests of the nation demanded in that respect— 5hen theie were complete, there would be an uninterrupted line of communication from the furthest extremity of Lake Superior, and the whole line of the Ottawa with Its lakes and rivers, to the ocean. Now all this, though on the north side of the St. Lawrence, was not more for the advantage of that north side, or of Montreal, than for the advantage of the rest of the Pro- vince, of Quebec, of all the British possessions in America, and in fact of the whole empire. It has been stated that we have ^100,000 in the chest-yet he doubted whether we had enough for our necessary expen- 1 r^^u .1 ^v*"*""^ ''^"^i ^""^ *=""' ^105,000-and when it was recol- lected that the line of the Chambly canal was double that length, it was not improbable U would cost ^200,000. It is said the act only au- thorizes ^20,000 to be laid out, but when y6a begin you must go on— and the expenses in completing it may be double, treble, or even five imes that amount. There was, however, another consideration. As time proceeded, new views and new inventions and discoveries arose which superceded the old. If the communication with Lake Chamnlain was so desirable, another better and less expensive mode offend itself than by a canal. He alluded to a rail-road. Canals had had their day, and it was now universally acknowledged, both in Europe and the United Statea that rail-roads were preferable to canals. The celebrated canal of the UukeofBridgewater in England was now superseded by a rail-road— a raii-road would be full as useful and less expensive than a canal in this case. Mr. Stuart said, it was always his political creed, that we ought to pay implicit respect to the laws.— Here was a law that had been passed ^/5® *i[^® branches of Ihe Legislature, and which ought to be exe- cuted. 1 his was a general principle there was no controverting. A law that ordains a canal to be made, declares, that it is a useful and proper expenditure of money. Much had been said about the cost of the La- chine canal ; but when money was granted for that purpose, it was ex- pressly understood, that money should also be granted for the Chambly canal. It was on that principle and pledge that the Lachine canal was voted. Had we now a right to go back ;— even if no law existed, we mI ,,.., ■? I * IP ! 126 Chambly CanaL could not, io honour, go back — but the law existed and must be ei^ecoted. It would be a great dereliction of our public duty, if we did not do that which we wer^ bound by every principle to do. The God of Nature had made the phannei of the Richelieu — it was an outlet of the waters of Lake Champlain — and nature pointed it out as a channel of coo|i« nunicalion which ought to be made uneful. He had long ago learnt the IjBSSon of obeying the law — he was not a slave io any government, nor tQ a majority of that House— but he was a slave to the law ; a law regularly 'passed, it a supreme authority to which even a majority must bown Where does the hoo. member for Huntingdon find that we shall vote away ^200,000, by desiring the execution of this law ? Here is no more than J^50,000 in the Act. The Legislature said ^50,000 was enough— and I am bound to believe them. The question is not what money is in the public chest — for the law says that the money shall be tal^en from the first unappropristvd money — and as long as there is ^£0,000 m the pub- lic chest, that nioni^y is not ours — it does not.belong to us to dispose, of — for it is already appropriated. He really had not heard any sufBcient reason why the law should not be put in force. No motion or resolution of this House could affect the law, and tp attempt it would be flying ia the face of the whole Legislature, themselves, the Legislative Council, and the Royal assent, , Mr. Nejlson was not convinced by any thing the hon, member had Maid, and should now move that it be referred to a Committee to enquire into the reasons why the acts of the Chambly canal had not been exe* cuted. It was useless and irrelevant to talk of respect for the laws,— we all respected them — but experience had proved that all laws were not salutary. We had been deceived in passing the Lachine Acts — at fii'st only ^40,000 was said to be wanted — and the expense has exceeded J^100,000 — if we don't take care we shall be deceived again, and it be> hoves us to do what we can to avoid being deceived. — He should add to bis motion, one for the appointment of Commissioners to enquire as to the best means of improving the navigation of the Richelieu. Mr. Valueres, said that after the Legislature had determined upon all the matters that were now again brought forward, — after they had maturely examined them— to want to enquire afresh into them was futile and indecent. The law expressly says that after the Lachine canal shall have been completed — this shall be made. — Eighteen months or more have elapsed and nothing has been done. Nothing could deprive the law of its virtue and effect, but a repeal — no special Committee can prevent the execution of any law ; and it was only in a general Committee that a repeal could be argued, The hon. member for Kent, had become a convert to a new system — Canals, it seems, were gone out of fashion— and the immense undertakings in that way in the United States— the ;!iS/*i^l''u"P*°''''' *°^ ^^^ *«^« ^»rried on by them- were to h« ^^n^l'^ft *•""«' «°°« by-Rail.road8 were to be pat ip thdr place- acqqieA had appeared in the horizon to bewilder aSd friAten Si ^hi^ were once advocates for canals- we had to so back 4 min v!,« ' V "' .ert to wheels-one of the earliest In^eni^s^tt^ZZ^na^^^^ ancients some put their trust upon chariots and upon Lies buT/h? h?J^ ^K^'l.FTi'' *'"?.^?*"* "»5''y''..ggpna-.„o&,thrch.rtoi ani^J^^^^^^ of Egypt, had penshpd in the) Red Sea, bnt. bad ther« hpli, - j cap^ tNre,, tliat qitaslrophe «^ight^o.^£;B X„ 'face ?^^^^^^ can tariff-mw h^ b^en alluded to, and it hTl^^TcoKld ^ •^"*"' sequence of ^a*. all tr.^* betweei the co«Sr^.^o7d cea^i'^^^H^ ed.t,,na differentJigMr-that measure wpuld cause an u^Lh^d 1^-3: to.be c/MTed 09, by whipb many of the mrket, in the uSstet^* woul^.seeK to supply then,selTesw'^^^ would reap al tlie adfanrages of such a tr4>, whUe the ASeSln. would be smarting under the eflFects of their tariff. Returns mrsrcomi Son? J^"'?/ *••* States, and the Chamhiy canal wouirfloS Montreal would not suffer by it,-the facility of thft natation Z« Sore upwards would give that city a share. The completion of tMs cTm' mumcation was notless important now than it was fiveyears ^go It wL" ttVl^ enquire as to what would be the probable exjense ofthe canS -that had been decided five years ago, and, if any thing, it must^ less now than then, as the price of all timber had maLiaSffileTs' oS^ -but eten if the expens(? surpassed by sop, e thousands the>50 (WO^d propriated, what did that signify? There was much chicane on the a? guments used If hon. members want the law repealed-let them av 7o and go about it in th"1fl Bfl« for he Montreal gaol, and ^20,000 for the Chambly canal Th^hort &Z" ":oietf' T '^ f ''"' '"^^ ^0O,O0oLbut perhaps of ?£; ±20.000-voted for the canal, no more than £5,000 miffht be called pOjOOO specified in the, act. It might be right to defer these matters-! but we must not let it be understood that we had done-had gone Isfw as we could, and should have nothing more to give. ^ nnfi"* ^P^.^^" Papineau suggested that as the accounts of the year would not be made up till 31st December, it would only be in January that any thing effectual could be done in this respect. ^ LECISLATIVE COUNCIL. The Hon. Mr. CutHBERT brought in a bill to continue for a limited time, two acta relating to the trial of small causes. The Hon. Mr. Debartsch having presented the petition from Three Kivers complaining of grievances, it was moved that the same be rejected, and after a debate thereon, the consideration was postponed. i« 5: ISO 1 1 'f hen any thing was brought forward which related to that barbarous practice-a practice that lacerates erery !![ !!«''. ^'"'*'"*^T'^ '°"''* "''*^° toostron«ly reprobated, and ought to be put down 5 or at least placed on such a footing as would more recon- nin i?.rT; l"'', r"'^' *!*.*" •* """* "''"^- "« •'^^ "°thing in the petl- Hon, but what had been said over and OTer again before, and over an* over again refuted. ' * ' * .u^J' yf^^^.*^'^^' ^?°^^'^ "PO" the petitioners, as men who neither un- derstood their own interest, nor that of their country. They were fools enough to suppose that imprisonment added to their securit'y— with the cupidi y natural to trade, a man gives credit to another, without sufficient grounds of enquiry, trusting to the quicksands of imprisonment, which often swallowed up the purvuer as well as the pursued. After having made advances, or given credit, most foolishly and imprudently, they were afraid to look at the consequences of their folly, and blindly resorted to .iill^f-™*"*''"^.^'.? the means of getting at his pocket, which was all the time more tightly closed. Mr. Neilson, in reply said, that cases of imprisonment for debt, for any long period, were not, he believed, so frequent as had been repre- sented. Nevertheless, they were salutary as examples. Executions iu criminal cases, were also rare ; but both made salutary impressions. A man, seeing how others fare, will be apt to consider a little before he runs himself into debt beyond his ability to pay. Poverty is no vice, but It often leads to many dishonest acts ; and distress would often convert an honest man into a fraudulent one. In all countries and in all times, lawi nave been made to protect creditors, not so much against the conse- quences of their own folly and imprudence, as against the folly, impru- dence, and dishonesty of their debtors. These laws were the basis of commercial confidence between sellers and buyers, which ought not to be shaken. It would not be denied that commercial affairs, in this country were in a bad state, and any thing that destroyed that confidence, would make them worse. At all events, it would be very unjust that those per- sons who had trusted others on the faith of the present existing laws, should be deprived of the advantage, whether real or ideal, which they had pro- raised themselves from them. *^ Mr. Vallieres, on the petition respecting located lands, moved that it should be an instruction to the Committee "to enquire and report whether »t would not be just and reasonable that the time allowed by their location tickets to the officers and men io whom lands have been granted in con- sideration of their services in the military of this Province, should be enlarged in those cases, in which the accomplishment of the conditions of 8uch location, within the time allowed, has been prevented by the want of roads by which the said lands tould be got at. And whether it would R t"\ 'Ml 132 Fees on military grants of land. not be adf Uoble, that pf.tents should be graoted for such loti, as well at to those officers and men who semd In the mlHua during the last war, and ha»o not demanded the grant of land to which they were entitled wUh- in the time fixed, by the goternment for that purpose." Mr. Neilbom said, the fees demanded often rendered it impossible to make the application. Mr. Valueres thought, in such cases, the Proiinco should bear the Expense. Dr. Blamchet obserted, that to grant lands, upon the payment of fees which eiceeded the means of the parlies, or in places to which there lay no access on account of the want of roads, was the same as granting no remuneration at all. It would be better in such cases to grant a sum of money. Mr, ViGER recommended an enquiry to be made, whether the persons who received these fees were not already sufficiently remunerated by their salaries. He thought the Surveyor General and Attorney General were well paid, and ought not to burden the public with additional fees for doing their duty. Mr. Stuart said, with regard to fees, there might exist indeed a great deal of high romantic feeling, and generosity, an exalted emulation who should detote most of their time, their ? igils, and their conti- nued exertions to the public advantage, and of these there were ample proofs in the conduct of the hon. member who had last spoken on the subject. But this was not the common rule. The bulk of mankind fol- lowed the rule of meum and tuum. Public functionaries could not be expected to give their time for nothing ; nor could the public expect it o( them. Reason and common sense concur in establishing the maxim that the labourer is worthy of his hire. If patents for these lands were gra- tuitously made out, those who perform this duty for nothing, might be ex- pected to do it imperfectly. The effect would be numberless disputes, and endless, interminable, doubts as to limits and boundaries. The duties of Surveyor General and Attorney General, whose fees had been mentioned, were laborious, tedious and painful, and would be augmented by the motion before us, by others to be done for nothing. When the lion, gentlemen makes these observations, he is influenced by his own generous and liberal intentions ; he feels that, in his mind, the public good outweighs all private considerations. Thus, led away by his own generous feelings, he expects, even in this selfish a^j,to realize the Utopia of Sir Thomas More, or the visionary propositions of the Mentor of Tele- machus. But in fact such a scheme was never practical, never more than theoretical. No one would labour for nothing, no ouc ought to do It, as well II e last war, itled with- poisiblo to 1 bear the ent of fees I there lay [ranting no rant a sum the persons ;ed by their ineral were lal fees for eed a great emulation heir conti- were ample ken on the lankind fol- uld not be expect it of maxim that s were gra« light be ex* iss disputes, aries. The es had been i augmented When the by his own , the public by his own e the Utopia tor of Tele- er more than ght to do it. Fees on miWari/ grants of land. 133 He had no dI«Po8ltion to ask for immoderate rewards for performing pub. I.c duties ; but they must be performed, and, in the state cf socletj noir existing, hey mu,t be paid for too. Notwithstanding his experience, and the experience of as all, that nothing could be done for nothing, ho was ready to give the hon. gentleman all credit for his generous feeling, for his broaching the pleasing Idea thnt we ought to do all for the Jiblic good ; he felt the more inclined to do so, when he recollected the seriout cxertlonH. the sleepless nights and the numberless anxieties which the hon gentloman had undergone, and not unfrequcntiy mentioned in this House* JIo knew the generous sentiments of that hon. member, he knew that In this instance he was an exception to the usual bias of human nature. Out It was not the less true that human nature had that bias. The Attorney Ueneral and Surveyor General had arduous duties to perform, they had a fair remuneration for these, and when the duties connected with the grant ng of land patents, came to be added to their other eniraitenients it was demanded that all this should be performed without any addiHoial remuneration. If the hon. gentleman would only try to perform all this laborious and additional duty but for one year, with all his generosity of soul with all his romantic eleyation of mind, he would be compelled to awake to the reality of things and wish the land patents at the de? II. But this was not the question ; the enquiry was whether we ought to refer to a Committee the consideration of assigning to militia- men a longer period for the performance of the settlement duties. When the Committee had considered this, and made its report, then it would be time for the hon gentleman to enlighten them, then was the time to raise his torch and to' light the wandering travellers, to bring thsm back to the path which they had ost, and were seeking their way amidst tempests, darkness, and rain • amidst the deserts, swamps, and marshes of those lands which had been assigned them. He was happy to see, even in these degenerate times still one instance of a mind retaining all the generosity of youthful years and all the sanguine expectations that usually distinguished early life — He was happy to meet with one who had reached his tenth lustre still re- taiDing the ardent spirit which was commonly abandoned in the advance of bfe. But he was mortified on recollecting that to expect other such instances, would be mere illusion. We must return to realities, to thines as they were, to the sordid, base, world In which we live, in which nothine can be done for nothing, and in which to look for any thing else was futile* We must return to the scripture maxim, that the labourer is worthy of his hire. ' Mr. Vaj,meres observed; that the House were in the daily habit of considering the fees given to bailiffs and other minor oOicers, connected with the various bills before us j it was strange that we should haggle about fees that had been long established, and laboriously earned. And if this labour were performed gratis, who was to pay for the expenses of paper parchment, &c. ;— neither could be furnished gratuitously. If the Attorney I'v'i 1 1 i ;'v' I! 134 Proceedings of both Houses. '• 6u General, by his wlary of £300, and his profcBsional emoluments, rcceitej more than a fair compensation for the duties performed, the error was in giving him so much at fiist; but if we impose upon him new duties not originally contemplated, they must be paid for in addition. Mr. VioEii complained of personalities being ascribed to him which he never intended. He had not in view the fees of the Attorney General or anv other officer. Their labours must be rewarded. But the object he had in view was the situation of parlies contemplated in this motion. They had been aggrieved in various ways, and ought to be relieved. They ought to have justice done them without expense, or at the expense of the public. The motion was adopted, without a division. Mr. Vallieres, from the Committee to which was referred the petition of B. A. C. Gugy, Esqr., moved an address to His Excellency for certain records of the Court of Vice-Admiralty. After a short debate, the motion ■was withdrawn, it being understood that the House possessed the right of calling for such documents from that Court. Dr. Blanchet, moved that 300 copies of the first report of the Com- mittee on the qualifications of Justices of the Peace be printed for the use of the House ;— gratited. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The motion for rejecting the petition of grievances from Three Rivers was negatived. On the bill for granting the benefit of Counsel to prisoners on trial for felony, it was moved, and agreed to, that the said bill be read a second time on the 1st of August. (*) Fifty copies of the report of the Special Committee upon the report of the Canada Committee, as far as relates to the Legislative Council, were ordered to be printed, for the use of the members of the Council only. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, 23d Dec. Petitions were presented, and separately referred to special Com- mittees viz :— by Mr. Leslie, from divers landholders and others in the District of Montreal, praying that Sheriff's advertisements, and legal notices respecting lands in that district, be inserted in the Montreal Gazette, published by authority :— from divers inhabitants of St. Anne's * This bill being thus lost, the particulars of it will be found amoog the abstrecti of those in the same predicament. i ■ ^n|l|iif 1 yL. Proceedings of both Houses, rhree Rivers 135 WM?%'" ^? n ■■'?•' •■''Pr"«"*'"« ^^'^ bad state of the roads thereia :- by Mr. Lee, from divers inhabitants in Quebec, recommending the con- 8 ruction of a wharf or pier from the Lower Tow'n to Beauport shore, for the purpose of making a tide-dock in the river St. Charles, and proving ZJ^L '"*^°''P°?t'° "Of * ^o-npany to effect the same :-by Mr. Stuart, from the Township of Caxton, praying aid to open a road to the Township ;i n'f d" u ^''^ ?'"r " '"-^y ^'' Vallieres from Printers and Edi? nor„ffi.!l*- pP'^V^** ^'."'"''P^P'""'*^ ^^ ^""^^'^ to go through the post-olfice ID Canada free of postage, as in Great Britain. Mr. Vauieues in presenting this petition said he believed that the post-othcc made certain charges for newspapers sent by post, without authority. 1 he post-office rendered no account to Government of the money paid on this account. Yet it was public money, and the people ot Canada ought to have the same privilege as the people of England. Mr. Neilson brought in a bill for the relief of certain religious de- nominations, and for extending to them and others the privileges of regis- Mr. ViOER wished a clause had been introduced for the extra parochial missions of the Roman Catholic persuasion, which were liable to the same difficulty. Mr. Neilson said these had not been introduced, because they were supposed to enjoy those rights by their Ecclesiastical Constitution: But he could have no objection to any clause being introduced to extend to, or include, all Christian Communities. The bill for establishing a turnpike from Montreal to Lachine was passed add ordered to the Council. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The bill for continuing the acts relating to the summary i.ml of certain small causes, was passed, and ordered to the Assembly. The Resolutions of the Assembly for the appointment of Commissioners OR the part of Upper Canada, were concurred in. The hon. Mr. Justice Bowen, from the committee lo whom was referred the act to render Voluntary Sheriff's Sales, (Dicr^ts Volontaires,) more easy and less expensive, reported that it was not advisable to revive the same, but instead thereof, brought in a bill " for the more effectual ex- tension of secret charges and encumbrances on lands." The hon. Mr. Stewart brought in a bill for the more effectual execu- tion of the duties of the Naval Officer, and the belter coUectioa of cer- tain dues and duties. El. 136 Receiver General— Navigation of the St. Lawrence. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Wbdweidat, 24th Dec, P«tition« were presented, vli :— -by Mr. Stutrt, from the National School of Quebec, praying for aid: — by Mr. QcESNETi, from Chambly, for the erection of a bridge, over the river Montreal;— -by Mr. Perradlt, from diveri inhabitants of Montreal, for leave to make a tampike-road, on the system of McAdam, from Montreal to Longue Pointe ;— by Mr. Neilson, from divers merchants of Quebec, praying for a grant to defray the expenses of a commercial agent in England ; — and from the Quebec Library for an aid j — by Mr. Leslie, from St. Lawrence suburbs in Mont- real, praying for a market in the main street thereof ;— by Mr. Lee, from magistrates and others of Quebec, for a new market, on the north side of St. Paul street ;— by Mr. Domoulin, from Three Rivers, for a bridge over the St. Maurice ;— which were severally referred to Special Committees 5 and one by Mr. Bouudaoes, from Three Rivers, com- plaining of certain parts of the conduct of the administration of Dalhousie, which was referred to the Committee of grievances. A message was received from H. E. the Administrator, communicating the Attorney General's report of the proceedings against John Caldwell, Esquire, late Receiver General, since January, 1827. It also stated that Mr. Caldwell had proposed to give up the whole of his property to iadem- nify the public, on condition of being allowed to remain possessed rif the seigniory of Lauzon, upon payment of £§2000 a year ; that thio arrange* ment had been .admitted by the Lords of the Treasury, in their letter of March 21, 1826 ; that in the mean time Mr. Caldwell had paid over ^4000 to the present Receiver General ; thatthe validity of the entail of the said seigniory had not been admitted either by the Court of King's Bench, or the Court of Appeals ; that the said John Caldwell had, in con- sequence, now proposed to continue as lessee of the Crown for the seig- niory, on condition of paying the same sum of ^2000 a year ; but that be prayed to continue as such lessee for a term of 5 or 7 years instead of holding it annually ; and that His Excellency, before transmitting this proposal to the Lords of the Treasury, would be glad to receive any sug- gestion that might present itself to the House on the subject ; which mes- sace and accompanvioe: documents were referred to the Committee of Public Accounts. Mr. Laterriere, presented the report of the Committee on the navi- gation of the St. Lawrence. The Committee came to the following opi- nions ;-r-that it is absolutely necessary that the pilots should know every channel and pass of the river ; that a knowledge of the North channel and several other passes, having never been required of the pilots, it is neces- sary the Trinity-house should license such persons as are acquainted with iwrence. Dec. le National II Chambly, Perraiii.t, upike-road, B ;— by Mr. nt to defray the Quebec :b8 in Mont- ty Mr. Lee, on the north Elivers, for a d to Special ,ivers, com- if Dalhousie, nmunicating [in Caldwell, stated that ty to indein- tessed of the this arrange^ leir letter of id paid over the entail of art of King's had, in con- for the seig- ; but that be rs instead of ismitting this sive any sug- which mes- lommittee of on the navi- )llowing opi- know every channel and , it is neces- uainted with Sundry Proceeding*, 137 them as pilots, and to induce the pilots already licensed to become ac- quainted therewith, to grant an additional pilotage of 6s: per foot, for conducting vessels through the North channel, for five years, to be pa d by the Province: that no new pilots be licensed who are not able to conduct li ..'"/i* *if ^1^"^°'. '••*''°"^»» *'•**'»»«« Captain Bayfield's chart is published by the Admiralty, 100 copies should be ordered out, to be dii! nbuted among the pilots ; and that a depot of provision, for the relief Tf ship.wrecked persons Is necessary, at the river Ste. Anne below Ca J^ Cha? One hundred copies of this interesting report were ordered to beTrinted. Mr. L. Lagueux, from the Committee on the Quebec Education Society, reported favourably as to an aid to the same. ^a«cauon Mr. Neilson brougat in a bill for appropriating a sum of monev for the encouragement of M r. Chasseur's Museum. ^ . J!n i[:5> 'i^r % H < 1 138 Court-houses and Gaols in remote parts. '. lie certainly would not be becoming in the house to be too limited and nar- row in these cases, but we should go on gradually, when expenditure iras considered. Upon motion of Mr. Viger it was ordered ; that it be an instruction to the Comnaittfie to enquire whether it would not be advisable that build- ings should be erected in the subdivisions of the districts, to serve as court-houses and prisons, and also as places for holding circuit-courts of criminal as well as civil jurisdiction. The House in a Committee thereon, Mr. Proulx in the Chair. Mr. BouRDAGES stated that the principal object he had in view was the establishing of court-houses and gaols in the distant parts of the Province, from the want of which numerous minor offences went entirely unpuni- shed—petty thefts of provisions, produce, poultry, and wood, which though perhaps supposed by many to be of little consequence, were not only of importance in country places where all had to depend on their own industry for the subsistence of themselves and families ; but were also the fruitful source of multiplying crimes, and increasing them to those of a higher pitch. But these went unpunished, because, to prosecute the offenders in Mont- real, Quebec, or Three Rivers, was utterly impossible for the injured parties. A court of quarter-sessions ought to be established for each county at least— but in the situation in which the country was at present, be would admit it might not be practicable to point out the properest seats of such courts at first— but even if inconvenient or improper ones were selected, they might be changed. He wished, however, in the first place, to call the attention of the Committee to the most distant parts of the district of Montreal ; both the southern and the northern parts require attention— but he did net hesitate to say the southern division suffered the most. He was sorry the hon. member opposite, (Mr. Viger,) seemed to think he was interfering with bis plans for reforming the administration of justice altogether. He could not but render justice in every instance to his good intentions ; yet his plan did not exactly coincide with the ideas he entertained. His subdivision of circles he was not prepared entirely to approve ; and he considered that confining the causes to be determined by his circuit-courts to the value of iglO, was but a petty and partial remedy for the evils sought to be redressed. If a man had only a claim of £I5, he must go to Montreal or Quebec. He mentioned this, however, only en passant. It was absolutely necessary that courts of quarter-sessions should be established, and of course prisons— but it would be right to con- sider what parishes are parts of seigniories, and what are not included in them, to avoid the necessity of making changes. His first resolution would be " that it is the opinion of the Committee, that it is expedient to establish court-houses and prisons in the remote and populous parts of the Province, in order that quarters-sessions of the peace may be held there for the due administration both of civil and criminal justice." Courhhou$e8 and Gaoh in remote parts. 139 Mr. VioKR laid, the wholesome and due administration of justice was the safe-guard upon which the lives, the property, the liberty, the In- terest, and the morals of the people depended. Whatever tended to pro- mote that object was highly laudable, and conferred benefit on the country. Ilis only objection to the proposal of the honourable gentleman was, that it did not extend far enough. There were other parts of the ProTioce which suffered as much as those within the immediate view of the hon. gentleman— and the iniquity of iniquities which they suffered was, that they were compelled to go a great distance, and submit their causes to the decision of city-jurors, men unfit, and unacquainted with their customs, concerns, and even with their language. This glaring defect had uot even escaped the attention of the crown-officers — and in the early part of the administration of justice here, they themselves felt the great inconvenience of their own ignorance in those respects. The iiii> quitouB system, which had been established by a law, now sought to bo abrogated, was a scourge to all parts of the Pibvince ; and had,4n nume- rous cases been availed of, for the purpose of oppression, by an adminis- tration, of which aH must speak in words of detestation— an administra- tion whose sole view was the enslaving of the country. The destruction of this system was the fervent desire, the wish, and the expectation, of the people— and the hon. gentleman was too sincere a friend to his countr/ not to feel that every step we take in that career should be stamped with the impression of the grandeur of the object we had in view. To isolate, therefore, as his proposal would do, one part of the people from another, would be to paralyse the efforts of the Assembly, which should be direct- ed towards the whole. The public would say— here is a House of As- sembly, composed of Canadians from all parts of the province, who onir pccupy themselves with a small corner. This would be an ill founded con- clusion, he would admit ; but it would afford a pretext for cavillers to suiipect the general principles of the Assembly. These we must sacredir maintain, and we ought to take every opportunity of putting on our Jour- nals, if only by resolutions, our determination to be the guardians of the rights -nd liberties of the whole; to evince pur desire of having those En- glish institutions which are consonant ,to our situation, brought in in their purity. Should it unhappily be that the other branches of the Legislature do not join us in these sentiqients, yet, the expression of our sentiments goes forth to the people— to a people who have learnt to understand tho laws by which they ought tp be governed— a people that have now beea occupied for many years in discussing great political questions— a people who have been calumniated and reviled, jeered at, and nicknamed. fJe did not pretend to know much of the inhabitants of all purts of the Pro- vince, but in the part where he resided and had his connections, those honnSles habitanSf who were derided and buffeted, who had not been treated as citizens and fellow-subjects, but as an abject and servile race, he would bear witness, that they now at least know their rights, their ■ S <:h' '^' I > M 140 Court'houses and Gauls in remote parts. Ifl ii' M •.„.^.,: privileges, and begin to feel, as they ought to do, their importance, as being the sinews of the country— the efeots of the last two years have formed them— have taught them political wisdom — which v.as political strength. To revert, however, to the hon. gentleman's observations. He had attacked the bill for the better administration of justice, in a point, where, perhaps, It was vulnerable — he had called it petty and partial, because it went no farther than the customary jurisdiction iu civil matters of the inferior courts. He acknowledged he might have gone farther ; but he was deterred by considering that a circuit>judge ofteo decides in haste ; and until the system was fully organised und expe- rience was gained, it would be dangerous to ' ' ^«i sums be dependent upon the decisions of these courts. Moreo> . greater part of the causes which occurred in the country, were rural - • es, relating to wages, to work, to agriculture, to boundaries of land, and seldom couid amount to heavy sums. He should not, however, object to £lS being put in- stead of ^10 — and let us at least have two or three years experience how the system will work before we extend it. Ab to the particular object at present before the Committee, he hoped it would be altered so as to meet more general views ; and, at all events, so as that, though we may not now be ia a situation to do all we want, yet, that we may declare it to be our iAtentioos to do so, and to provide either by building, purchase, or hiring, f.he accommodations necessary for every part of the country. Mr. BouRDAoEs had no objection to any addition or improvement upon his plan ; and felt equally that the districts of Quebec and Three Rivers should be taken into consideration, as well as that of Montreal, though he thought the most pressing necessity existed in the last. Mr. Vallieres asked whether there was an idea of abandoning the plan of instituting quarter-sessions of justices of the peace in the country, or to persevere in it ?— these had their advantages and their defects. — In England itself they were not devoid of inconveniences — and justices of the peace were not always immaculate. — Here we knew they' were often the reverse. The best institutions and the best men, when corrupted, became the worst, corruptio optimi pessima, — what was there, for instance more precious, more entitled amongst juridical institutions, to be called the best, than that of juries — yet if not duly regulated — if not narrowly and jealously watched, what abuses might not flow from them ? English his- tory poiiits out many — and our own experience here shews the same. Suppose there was no restriction, and that the friends, the relations, the dependants, of either party might be called on, by a partial or corrupt Sheriff— suppose men accused by government, instances of which we have seen, oppressed by all the power, the influence, the wide stretched arm, of the executive, were compelled to abide the decision of chosen, packed and special juries— how could such juries do their duty? He strongly advocated the system that country-juries should be appointed ortance, as years have as political servations. istice, in a petty and ion in civil have gone udge often and ezpe- dependent part of the ^ to wages, uid amount ing put in- rience hovr tr object at I as to meet ve may not are it to be irchase tuntry. or ement upon hree Rivers , though he doning the he country, lefects. — In I justices of ' were often corrupted, for instance le called the irrowly and Snglisli his- the same, lations, the or corrupt f which we le stretched I of chosen, duty? He e appointed CouH-housea and Gaols in remote pans. 141 and citizens could not— The adminUtrari„r ? * merchants, aders, to be carried to ever^o" i^ Z ecu Z Ef '' l' T''' ""«^' respect to sessions of the peace, they coud not h. te T'' f ^'"?' " '^'' present magistracy. When the magiZ y ?vas sifti ^n'" fl"f '^ '"J °"'" upon that proper land respectable foTn7 which ouU^/'^ 'T f"' which the late administration had prostrareJ U thP.f .„ . ' r"'' '^'^'" sessions might be useful, and not till then. ' "^ 'i"^'^'"*'' Dr. Blanchet trusted that the court-houses and prisons talkpri „f justice, from juries being packed or partTa and frJm 1 'n^V'*""' ^'f subservient magistracy. The main reaC which e J ?e^ ?or hl'^"" '"'^ tlon of the cities of Montreal and Quebec wal on ti *''*' '"f °'-P°'-«- dentsof their quarter sessions-but despo ismrd had Us" iumoh T'" we not even known, in the coun.y of Gasp^" a president ofThS ~ !'^ session, appointed, against the express vote'^o the'^House ? There .?""*" petition before the House from a populous cou„tvrCorn„,i?°'l* erection of a court-house and gaol, fC which the' ellnZ f ^°k ^^^ other parts would oriirinatP. Ti., /kJIT-A _ *''^.^**^"''"? »' such to other parts would ongij^te. ^t ti^^ w« 7g;e^=?t;'f::!^em in the remote parts „.„..^., ,„ par„cmar. was evident Th„ i of dragging petty delinquents up to oiebec weVe iusufferab 1 and drew from the country parts larger sums than we were aware of Bu now a to ways and means for making these buildings—the hon .npmW ' 2 to build them, but did not say how they wfre tobe pa'irfor^^^f^^^^^^^ £100,000 atour disposal, the'n if we gife £20,ooO to o^fe place ^20 0^ to another, something for education, somethin/j for gaols and «n„,.i,^ only £10, .twas manifest that our ways and means would bre^haust/d Ways and means, however, could still be found, by requiring every cou„ (y o erect Its own public buildings. He could not say thK p?an ^as' matured. There were about twenty.four counties. The whole wouwTe- quire re.organ.zation. The magistracy must be thoroughly r^Jo'lT Powerful eiforts would be required to retrieve that body from thpH?* graded state into which they had faUen. ^ " ^'^^ ^^' Mr. BouRDAGES said, the hen. member had come forward with in exaggerated and distorted statement of what had been granted, compared with our means-besides, he had concurred in the former resoSn of the House, to Inquire into the subject of the erection of court-hoMM and «aoU, and he could not, cooshtently, withdraw. ^ ""* f'l us Montreal Oaof. . 1 1 Dr. Blanch KT cflrtainly had voted for tha resolution, but it wai becBuier he wanted the matter to be discussed, as now was the case ; and by voting for enquiry, he did not pledge himself to acquiescence. Mr. BooRDAOBs said, be it so— -yet, there was no occasion for making so great an outcry. Wuys and means were not usually thought of till after the expediency or inexpediency of any measure had been de- termined on. The resolution was then agreed to and the further discussion of tb« subject deferred. BOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Friday, Dec. 26. Petitions were presented r — by Mr. Netlson, from merehants and others of Quebec, prnying for a roijd from the f^wer Town- to Sillery- cove :— by MnLEstiK,. from Edward Holland, gaoler of Montreal, pr^> ing for an increase of salary ; — from inhabitants of Mofltreal, praying for an incorporation of that city ; — by Mr. ViasR, fronv inhabitants of St. Charles, Uichelieu, for aid to an elementary school they had established ; —-by Mr. Bouroages, from inhabitants of the townships of Grenvilie^ Lochaber, Buckingham, Templelon, and Hull, and the seignory of La Petite Nation, complaining of the insufficiency of a road formerly planned, representing the necessity of having a gratid veyer for that part of the country, and praying redress and aid ; — by Mr. Stuart, from merchants and others of Qu^'bec, praying for legislative provision for the relief of shipwrecked mariners and others; — by Mr. L. Lagueux, from Jos. Tardir, keeper of the Court-House of Quebec, for an increase of salary ; by Mr. Neilson, from the Scotch Church at Quebec, praying for an aid to build a schooUhouse ; — by Mr. Youno, from inhabitants of the Lower Town, Quebec, praying relief to obviate several ineonvenicnces complain- ed of ;— which petitions was referred to various exiftiag and special Committees. Mr. Neilson brought in a bill to authorise the payment of a com|)en- satiou to Benj. Ecuyer. On the third reading ofthe bill for the erectfon of a new gaol at Mont- real, Mr. CuviLLiER was against its passing in its present shape, as it made no provision for the impartiality of the Commissioners to be ap- pointed for its executionr-who, if landed proprietors there, might be influenced by views of personal interest in purchasing the ground on which it Was t9 be built ; as well as by the desire of obliging their friendr, Mr. Vallieres, gave credit and weight to the obsenration of the hon. gentleman ; but as the bill was in that state of fbrwardoMi and ita mic«»« Courts for Small Causes. 143 ion of tb« ?i'paZ« k '"?h!! h'" ''iT't:? *••? r ••"P^dlmenu .hould now occur III pa.8ingit.-lhe House dlfided and the bill was pasted bj a majoritr of 16 tor, and ordered to the Council. "/ • niajont/ The bill from the Council relative to damases on oroteHti^rf Mii---# c'tcr™ '^"'•""'' •" """''"•"'' '""-Serlldt.'S! Tit Oo the bill from the Conncil for « makins mor«i» re harm t|)ai» t^red. Paly, eared to have nifitbe.epqn' 'goYeromeot. ;tbe< matter a HQBQ, when it lowing powen I their rights. t later make >d) that in no ity,otasmall ikiog fpr the [ 145 ^ Mr. L, Laqueux said it was too true that it wkn only bvchaiw* tK.* cv"e?hT!:'IT"''"*l^'^"''PP°'°^*''^ Commissioner^^ Ifwe^SS win h.^^T'^*"'".'?'''*°'*'=^" years, the perosal of the bill d^ will be conVlncire of its Impropriety. If you take intb view wh.l mS! flcation. ought to be requinS for the office^rf ComSUel Tod iSS at the nominations, we should see that the ExecutiyTX hLi tLT*^ mmations, did not in the least consider qualificaUoos but Jh« «S.-^ opinions of. and countries to which thrirTvSeTiwS theirSl** wantT Tk^^ adduced of parishes in whicrJkTmmJon^^^^^^^ wanted, and who had named those they wished for who in.»!ST^ partixansof the late administration thrust u^nthea^' A law m*oi:^±:' ble of makmg the administration of justice liable to bemlin tS^ injustice, could scarcely exist. * tool of Mr. Speaker Papinbau observed, that there was a petiUon befh^ m. House which prayed for the institution of smaU eJurtr?n Il«fS S! inferior jurisdiction of St. Francis. ' •« Ueu bf th, Mr. VALLiBaKS was certainly inclined to eive weiirh* ♦« »k« ,»-»:«« one petitiott purporting to be from the tolrnsWps bS tbTttr^.? !? as being the petition of the m^ority of their inhabitants. «»''"«»»P* Mr. Vallibrej allowed that Baight be the case. With F<%ni»«i «- h. mode in wWch the act had been ^ufin pracUcH waTfor tKec^ cJ s wS.?r'"' ^^"''^'•^ ^^^^ «" Po«"Me/disencumber^S^ this wretched law. Cornmissioners were refused to be appointed i„!«„ sequence of the votes they gave at elections, and tbow wire nrSi.^ who^had .ecriiiced their infependence at Jhe shrinTofTovSS » J*!.' J'""" '''''*"l on *lw imelidiileiil tot pnltiiu it off till Ahmm' lerring it to a Special Committee was carried. . ; rn!?''*^*'^'^"** "°''^*^ ^^''^ ^' «^o"^d ^ a" instruction td the Special Committer to enquire into the manner in which the ia^s th^it relK he trial of small causes in Commissioners' Courts We bec^n exiSi! 4\ HI 146 m Office of Sheriff.—EnquHet. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The HouM wai principaUy occupied, io Coramitteci, on the bilU rel». tlYe to Parochial subdivisions, to prevent frauduleot debtors from evading SSr cSrs, and to facilitie p*HH:eedin«s against the estate and eifecu of debtors. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Satckoay, Dec. 57. On the engitwsed Wll being read for regulating the offlce <>f Sh"iff, ^r BoomDAOE. SShed that a clause had been inserted to exclude Shenff. from sitting in the Councils. Mr. VA,x.ER.a said, there had been full tSie brfore! and if such a clause was necessary, why not bring it forward SSb«? m" VioE. enquired, how it could be possible that an executive l:?s^^rdi^tLfficer o? a coit. as a Sheriff was. could be elj.We a. a member of council-it involved a contradicUon-a judge could not be a judge in his own cause. A member of the Councl had the privilege of iol being proceeded against in cases in which a Sheriff must be liable.- AUtUel&rther converSition took place, in which Mr. Na.LSOH joined- tf he hon. member had wished this introduced, he ought to have done so before : the bill was good, and ought not to be impeded in Us progress ; U was for the remedy of abuses, and would have that effect. The bill was passed and ordered to the Council, as was also the biU for conpensating Mr. Alexr. Wood. « LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The bill for the relief of the poor by the loan of seed-wheat, Ac. wai passed, with eome amendments, and ordered back to the Assembly. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Monday, Dec. «9. Mr Lbsmb presented a petition from the Presbyterian American Sodetv of Montreal, praying for the privilege of registering marriages, Kf wd deaths, holding property, and suing and being sued.- Referred Mr QuBSNBL moved the appointment of a Committee to enquire into the pS stat^Tof the administration of civil justice in Jhe Superior rnur^Iof Kind's Bench at Montreal 5 into the present number of unde- Sded ewes the number of those which are inscribed as wellin the r^/e SI rfro^Tas n the general and special rdle ffenquAe; the number of day, thaf were appot^^ in last October term, to take Enquete, in the fullow- BO the biU for Ctmmiuairei d'Enquiti. 147 '"i^.T*i'°?* ' u"*" ^^ "■"^^ °^ «»"•«• •«> ^*>'ch the ^o»^<« wu com- &Jr. ii JT'^^'J" •«•» to enquire whether any nnd wh.t incon- iren eociei exwt In the prerent system of Uking Enqu/tt,, .nd if they eitst, wbat are the best means of affording a prompt and efficient remedy. Mr. Qt;i8»i«L suted that the Superior Court of King's Bench at Mont- real was overladen with business, and EnquSte, were so nume" u. and ZTV^"' '^'^ "°"''* °°' ^ 8°^ ^^'^"V ^"♦he time ap"Sd for them. The consequence was that th»? decisions were long delayed and .mtor. were put b.ck ; obliged to return term after termf andWc'atl^ after Tacation. He had not included the other districts n hrmoUo? lior te "m.*** ■^*»'»»*"*«* ^»»»» »he circumstance, attending theiTeupe-' Hi^l'uTi^^ the delays in the Courts of Montreal were intolerable. Since he had been atQnebec, he had received representations from there Tp K.V..T . »• '***"'''"** T".''*y "^'Soir^g on in the great work which he had at heart to see completed. To reform evils, it'^was necessary to give a picture of them and when the abuses were exposed, consUtu! tionalprmcple. aswellas general feelings, demanded thei removal But It seemed to him that the bill for the filter administration of justice provided the remedies wanted. vu «. jusuca Mr. L. Laoukux, considered that the district of Quebec, suffered the Mme InconTeniences as that of Montreal ; and needed the same remedy. The enquiry should extend to the other districts. ^ Mr. Leb wished to know something more as to the object of the motion whether .t was to be one in confbrmity to the bill for facilitaSh; I^!1Z'I??°".K^"'*'?' ''y '*'''"'* Commissioners of iSn9«^/«, would be appointed for the counry, or to cause otiicr Commissioners of Enquite to be appointed for the cities. The cities were not the sufferers in tWs re? spectcompared to what the population of the country saffered-there the S h«5?H LtMni) ?' ^'■'"" ' P**;' °^ '^'^ burthen that lay upon them, he did not think it necessary. Relieving the countrv- in eeneral from the obstacles which had hitherto been pLed in th?w!y^of the administration of justice wasa more important object than alleviating the lo^!;i''h/'^''TK"\."n*'*"".^^'"*°°^ •* right, mtich ofthatlaCj would be relieved by the Comtnusions d'Enquftes for the country before \2T^\ '*'""^''* *° 5f ^"PP""'^^ '^^' P'"0P««' person. coiS' not bj found m the country a. C^mmiwioner.. This seemed strange If anj ?aT°.w'*T ^t'M^ ^°"';* '°' proposing Commissioner.^of£«2 intheciues, he.houldoppoMit. w» **«/««;»€ the^Jiif T*'"" ''" agatnsupplying partial remedies-the more general the evil, the more general should be the remedy. The pre^nt admini. ' 148 CommiKitiret t^Enqu^te, to trntioBof iuitice can not wixMun— from one end of tHe pKWinOB to Ihtf other there ^»M but one C17 for its reformtiion. The ittsufflciancy and absurdity of the present lyitem was apparent, and partwl rtmtom irovid not do. Mr. Qusnrsi, thougftt If the Mrmd Doeter wooW «fert to tt» ^o- ienio«ial practice, he iwmkl fied tkat, in mtoycMei, partial re«edi« might be applied, in order t» prtpwe the pattent for «»'•?«"?»•*• I*' taek«upMihis discaee. He coincided however perfectly wrththeprO* position for extending the ntotloo to the other districts. Mr. BounnAoES beMered that as well in Quebec as *;«e*hew thwe were a vast number of suspended cases ; and he hoped that, under the new reign of the law which was in progress, aa efficacious remedy would be found for all those evils, which had been so sorely felt and eaclaimed aeainst. He voted foi the motion becaose he wished to dwcoui^e every End of delay, whether arising from an over aecumulation of bwsiness m courts, from defects in the law and practice, «r frort supineMSsor nealect in those who administered It. He wished the ho«. member fw Kent had given us more extended CIrcttit.confts. Lawye« in *«« c«f »; f rv we^ fully adequate to fill the effloe of CkMhtowsioners of fc»^«. The whole field of law seemed now like a road fail of cakffts } these w« had to remove— let it be done as much as possible at once. Mr. ViGEu wished to throw out a few more general observatioOT on this subject.— It was the unfortunate country-people who suffered. Ihese Jours d'Enm^ie in the cities, were one of the most burlhensome grievaaces ihev experienced. A man who has a claim for £9.0 must attend, with all his witnesses, during the five or six days that are allowed for thatpor- Mose— but a cause comes on which absorbs perhaps three of those days,- mtle time therefore is left for the rest— many other causes are pending, «0 30 40 or more witnesses are in attendance on expenses— the time Koes by, and they have all got to come back again a^ the next Jmi ,r Enquite. As has been before often said, these delays absol utely destroytd justice, for they frequently occasioned the abandonment in despair, of tUemost just suit. These were the manifest hardships endured by tlw < ouutrv people— the inhabitants of the cities, though also partially suf- iorin«, were much better oft They were on the spot- they had their witnesses at hand— within reach and at no expense.— In matters of busi- u ss a clerk if not wanted one day, could attend the next, and sUll atteoU K, hiB employer's afifairs-and soon from day to day.— Thus merehanti, ..assessed of wealth, paid nothing for getting iostice, wWlst the poor, Misprable, oppressed peasantry, those who could least afford to spewi riil.or time or moneylineffectually, could not get it, even by paying font; - ilH-y were not put ton an equal footing in that respect, with citltens and tiu'tis. No more were tbe»y in jury-cases— jury-cases, wWth hewerJr nniM to th« Beiencjr and ial ttmtiim tial revediet oomplctt at* rifth the pT6» 9wh«ra thert t, under the jmedy ^ould id csclaitted ourage every f bwinen in luplnevets or , member for ia tiMB conn* Enqu^t. The tiMW wo hid servattoira oti itered. These noe grievARcei attend) with 1 for that par- those days,— are pending, ses — the time le next Jeurs tely deBtroyed despair, of tdured by tite partially saf* hey had their itters of busi' nd still attend us mercbanti) ilst the pour, ford to spend paying for it ; k cititens and khiich hewercr Proceedings of both ifftfttwrtji 149 h«(«f«iiM«d th^ could bo throughout introdocod-coBldaot hoto^ as long a8J«4Mwere fonM m the syttooi ■o•^«„o*iled* All *h0 couJ try people in the district of Montreal, within the bounds of his know- ledge, feel the adrantnge of Jurow In dtfl as well w criminal cases, bat dare not wirii to report tp them. M loqgas they may be cpmpelled to submit their claims to juries -to iMili(dous wjsrics !• property. MOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, Dec. 3a TJw amendments made in the Legislative Council to the Bill for the reliefofthepoorin the loan of wheat, Ac. were affrecu tp, and the bill, as amended, sent back. ' i y*' K! ^^^ compensating Benj. Ec^yer, and the administration of jorticfe bill, were passed and ordered to the ComicH. HOUSE OP ASSEMBLt.' IVednesdav, Dec. 81. A MtUion /rom inhabitonts of the parish of St. Ambroise, for ao aid to «acsm St. Anne's of any public was passed and cial jrarliament It. of parish and n instruction to ch parts of the gal remedy to e Speaker laid ting that H.E. e Council, that, il to do thereon [d, that he shall it for H. M.'i Jan. 3.. >n from the ia* lert, that it l» an iDstrucUon to the Committee on the petition from Quebec for mac adwusing certain r«ids for nine miles from the city, ioenquiri m to certain other principal public roads that led to Quebec, and whether the same measures should not be extended to them. w«e»ner ine ««^!i*^"* ".°°* of tje members of that Committee, considered this n«nariJ TS" v^k" "*^,^j*i"?''^ '^'">' *"» *''''"' ^<»' '''•><=»' they were no! prepared, and which would delay and impede them in their re^iort. «mi -». V'*"'"'l' "'^ ^® ^'i""*^* ^^ "****' ^'""g^** before the Com- mittee was too moch narrowed-he saw no reason why other roads and other persons should not receive the same beneBt as those which had been particularly referred to in the Quebec petition. The roads on the north eide of the river were preferred, but those on the other side ought also to be partakers of them.-He particularly considered those to Point Le»v «v T.? W '!"POr*^"t boih to the city and to the back country from which they led-he should move that it be an instruction to the Com- mittee, to enquire and report also as to those roads. Mr. NmsoK observed that the county of Dorchester was a part of the Province that was not mentioned in that respect, in any petition. Mr. BouBDAGES said that if the enquiries and reports of the Committee were to be extended so much, he would recommend the hon. members for Montreal, who were always anxious that their district should have a full A M } ^•"Pjo^f "ems and expenditure, to propose that the roads round Montreal should be included. To follow up the suggestions of the hon. member for Dorchester, would be to open the barriers, and turn all the roads of the Province through the Committee. Mr. Lee, said that even if other petitions had been presented— he did not see why they should be referred to this Committee— bad roads were above many things proper subjects for representation— and probably the people of Point Levy might have their share-it was not his wish to pre- vent them from being improved— but if you sur-charge this Special Com- mittee, with inquiries into other roads, the reference would defeat itself —It would be just as if we had referred all questions that arose respect- ing every Court in the Province to the Committee on the Judicature bill. Mr. Ls. Laoueux, contended that the roads on the south side were as much deserving of attention as those on the north— and that they pro- perly came within the scope of the present Committee.— Point Levy and Bout del'lsle, were within a short distance from the city— only one mile— and the Committee was instructed to report on roads that were nine miles distant. But the fact is, on this side, the land and property is of greater value, the inhabitants or persons interested in Beauport, Chariesbourg and St. Croii, &c. w«r« more ajive to their own interest ; ihey wera ! I ■ H.i' t S'-^i ■ ■ •■ I' 'ijfil , '!$- ¥m\ 152 RoaiU near Queftec. wealtki«r, bAd nore inflmnoe, and had be«o More atert ia applykit !• the Legislature— bttt the Legislature ought to Mpplj the defleletioy in tiMMie respects of others-mother persons and ether roads were in the same sttua- tion as those who had petitioned— the cirenmstanoes were the same— they were all rouds centering in this city, requisite for its supplies, and its com- munieatton with the interior — such measures should not be looked on as if they were chiefly for the advantage of the individuals who had applied but for the general advantage of kll— those who had not petitioned shoald be put on the same footing as those who had, in whatever regarded the pub- lic good. — He, as the representative of those who had not been so alert as others, and had omitted in their own persons to apply, considered it as his duty to supply their deficiency, and to apply for them, by the motion be had submitted. To do otherwise would be to say we will shut our eyes to the wants and necessities of all who are not sufi&ciently importu- nate. If there were no analogy between the roads, concerning which the petition had been presented, and the roads in favour of which be had made his motion, he would allow it would be wrong to lay new objects before the Committee — but they were alike in their local circumstances, in their peculiar wants, and in their being part of the same whole, the avenues that led to the city of Quebec. If public good bo the obuect pursued— all such ought to be included. Mr. VioER, said the Committee were already charged with a special ob- ject—and it was now wanted for tbem to enquire into one that was foreign to the first. If this were admitted, other members would have a right to propose that other roads should be referred to the same Committee* A main objection was the inconvenieaoe and disorder such a practice mast occasion in a special Committee, and, by compelling a report which mi^t be far advanced, to be entirely changed, occasion much unoecaaBary delay. Mr. BotTRDAsES, said that if the hon. member only wanted to establish the fact that the roads he sprie of were bad, it might perhaps be not so •l^ectionable j but it would follow that an aid would be required for them —money to be expended— and in that case the customary previous con- sent of H. E. was wanting. It was an object that belonged rgther to the Committee on that part of the Crovernot's Message that related to inter- nal communications. Mr. Lauvkvx said, hen. members had assumed that if fhis motion were granted, other members might introduce other roads and other im- provements foreign to the objects of this Committee— but this was not a foreign object— it was in effect one and the same— roads all centering in one point— and the particular mode of improrii^ which was specified and approved of. WHh regard to the objection taken as to the want of the Governor's previous consenf, that did not apply— there was no question iMitmi &-t. y\nt !• the oy in tlHHie MBie sttin- •me— ttiey inditscom- ked on M if ipplied but I snoold be id (he pub> ;eo 80 alert idered it as the motion ill shut our iy importu- ; which the ich be had ew objects umstances, whole, the > theiAyect special ob* R^as foreign I a right to aittee« A ictioe Bsust hich ni^t n necessary estabRsh be not so i for (hem vio>us con- ther to the i to inter* his motion \ other i ID- was not a tntering in icifled and ant of (he I queirtion Courts for SmaU Cauie*. 153 of i«addiJioiidaid,-Hwas only whether part of that wUeh •«. i.^ it S-'h'i^iT''*^!:!,"^' 'oi»rf St.C«»VcharTiiLurg?iZtr *c. asighl not be expended (o eqaal advantage, on other roads JhichwiS in (he same state, all tending to the same Sntral ,Z[ wd the onlv dl7 fcrence between which was" that the inhabitonts^f the oi,?. ihlf w ^Mchthey^n, wemneithelsoalert, .0 richfoi L ^ " ihiT*"* The HoHse divided on the motion of Mr. Lagueox, which wasneaati.^ by . .aiorlty of IS to 11 , aod Mr. Nellson's /r.Z\ motion iwclJl^^ld^ Mr. BouR»A«KS presented a petition from certain inhabitant. «f Nicdet, ,n faronr of the Conrt of (Commissioner, for trying ,^"1 J, io that place, and praying for its Continuance. * Mr. PnouLx opposed the reception of this petition— It had been cot nn byafewindiTiduals, under the immediate patronage of the CoSffoJS there-a Commissioner who had been named, ?om pofitS J^^ i?// f^l"*fc*J* ^''"^''T ;l"»''»»^"t'o» o' Lord Dallousie. Another peition from the same part of the country had been sent up, signed by 450 nam.^ of respectable pen,ons, prayiog (he removaUnd aSilisfment VtS Mr. VwEE said that under those circumstances, he thought it of im. portance that the petition should be referred to a Committee. Mr. VAttiBEBs, was inclined to gite eterv facilitv to «n«h .t«*wi..». • patient hearing, and a prompt dedsion-^Sl'pe Jon Ta5 JoS^^^^^^^ his own tiews on the subjectUut thai made no differencial; TaTti? would comp<,tt *.lth his views, and those of all who wished well to the country that these matters should be thoroughly sifted, felt! and und-r "^T*- ?r T * "i "' ""'"' «"«*" *••• immediate influence^^^o he' .t fr°iL*-* w'T""*^" *'"' ''^ *»^* P"»°» ^''° ''-d been "elected by the late administration as a proper tool for their purpo^es-who was thSr ^"'M''''; C^mmissioner-their etery thIngVnd who tas hUme J at hebeckof theExecutlve-thismlght not Se so-and we oSin justice to give them an opportunity of proving it-themore publicity was given to these matters the better. i'«o»cuy was Mr. BotTHDAow, said that, in CMsequence of what bad been said h* should move that the petition be referred to the Committee, to whom* w.« referred the consideration of the propriety of continuing the acts for the trial of small causes in the country. e ^» lur me The House in Comniittee on the bill fbr the qtmlification of Justices of the Peace, Mr. LAtEBBiBiiJ: in the chair. The first elaiwe being that all Justices of the Peace should be appointed by the advice of the Chief Juetkey and tiia M^sty!t Eaiecutive C\MmcS. §m^ 154 Jutticet of (he Peace, Mr* SrxAKKR held It very improper to entrust the appointment, (or what vras the same thing) the recommendation, of Justices of the Peace to the Executive Council. That Council was a secret and invisible body, to which past experience had shewn %e could not entrust this important duty. In the appointment of the Commission of the Peace the people of the Province had been extremely ill used. Dismissions and appointments had been made without respect to character, influpnce, property or ability for the office. Every thing was made subservient to party-purposes.— The Executive Council was chiefly composed of those who depended en- tirely on the Administration, and who used their office with servility, secrecy, and views of advancement. Every thing combined to make their nominations dependant on the caprice of the Governor. In such appointments probity, honour, character, respectability were disregarded or put into the opposite scale. Thus men who were fit for these offices were disgusted with the company they were obliged to keep. No person of merit or standing in the country, would consent to hold them. Such offices were degraded. Men who identified themselves with the suffering cause of the people were expelled and driven into retirement. Upstarts, unknown and contemned, were substituted in their place. Such were the enormities committed by the Executive under the system which we are now called upon to support. Shall we then place it in the power of the Administration to practice the same system over again, by leaving the appointment of Justices of the Peace to the Chief Justice and Executive Council alone ? Another reason why the members of that Council were unfit to be so trusted, was that they resided chiefly at Quebec ; they were hangers-on, officers of Government, having little local knowledge of the districts and places for which they were to appoint Magistrates, and were obliged to to depend for their direction upon the information of others. The appoiniment ought therefore by all means to be left to men more honest, more upright, more thoroughly acquainted with the country. The Judges were preferable to the Council, and, all things considered, the best that could be adopted. From the duties of their situation they became acquainted with all the parts of the country, they had personal qualifications, and by their sacred character they were known and respon* sible men. But the Executive Council was not so constituted ; its invi- visable, mysterious, forms destroyed all accountability. The members of it were frequently so far from being the unsuspected rulers of the country, that they often governed the Governor. Mr. Lee said it had been publicly asserted throughout the Province, and had been admitted in that House, that the Chief Justice was an un- suitable person. It had been so represented to the Government. An accusation had been prepared against the Chief Justice, had been partly proceeded in, but not thoroughly followed up ; the only consequence was that j^lOOO had been added to his salary. The Chief Justice had above all others been pointed out as the source of the evils complained of, in im Justices of the Peace. 155 Ja,t,ce but to the Ministry at home, for the g"™,.., ?s e^ined in 1^?. 7^Ty:TZrVe'S"f '•''^""•:"" "-'"^ 'Stated S cniei legai dUviser. He was of opinion, however, that neither th«. Ft*. cutive Council nor the Judges should have the power of namlnfand re" S^uf-KpJ^'^SiTal^^^^^^^^ bitants depended so much upon Justices of the Peace that thi-v o« Jh* f^ have an opportunity of knowing them, ought tfbe sure of &^A«« who would suit them ; and thil could bes? be done brmaWnTSet of their own election. As to quahfication, he thought locaTi?v w^ theT^t rab e Counsellors, but approved of the Honourable Judges The Honou" aLo rd?V/-' u' L^^^'-To^vn hasobjected to the H^onoumbfe JudZ" do, and to the.r Honours of the Legislative Council. But if we reS? ^hi "iJT'""'' ' ?«"i'™^» ^"d that Honourable Gentleman, this H onou- emaln^n^ h"- ^^JJ Honourable Body, not one Honourable 'per on wouU SLs of thi Peac;' nw^'r^ '^' ''r"'^'- •" *»>« app^ointment of Justices ot the Peace. Objections are made to the Chief Justice as he is the legal adviser of the Governor, the chief person in the Scil and giana. Justices of the Peace were there ultimately appointed bv the subSiiteSToT'p"-"'^ ^^'^/^ t'^'^y'^y ^h« Lo'rd'£S"ncellor!and subniittedto the Privy Council. The Lord Chancellor, in addition to h s dignity, was Speaker of the House of Lords, was the King's Coun- sellor, and emphatically styled Keeper of the King's conscience Guard" a i of minors, protector of all lunatics and idiots in the Sed kingdom ioconsXnT'S>.^'"^7P*-^"^^''«"^'y«* «»*his was notthfug^'t Peace yU'^;'^''''*^"*-^ ""l nominating fit persons as Justices offhe Inr rn^iHt "^^^ "^5**'" ^^^^ "^''^^"^ ^^e King, uor the Lord Chancel- P ces ThT.T,H''"f k' *''^^ >»f ividuals, n1,r of their fitness frsuch S^m iLr ;';*k''pP"'°"'"^ acquainted in every part of the the &;« nP A '' °^ '*!f ^^T ""''^ '•e'=0"™™ended to the Chancellor by , ^hcZl tI':::m^''; '^^ J«^S^l«f Assize by the Magistrates of TtL Kin J'fi JAk ^t^f ^t/^^^re thought competent to recommend eel lor ^hE' ^T^^ '^'l •^"^^^'' «"^ *h^" *^''°"gh the Lord Chan- cellor, -the persons who are thought fit to hold the office of Justices of the ' <% ■ 4, 156 Justices of the Peace:. i ! M a.; Peace. He wished to assimilate the appointment of Justices in this country as much as possible to that of England ; but he ag^ee,d with the Hon. Speaker, that His Majesty's Judges in his Courts of Justice were, in all probability, the fittest persons to be entrusted with that power^jn this country. The proposal for making the office el^ctiTe, could not bfl teriously entertained. In England that office had never been elective;;;-; We are proud of enjoying the same liberties as the people of England. Such a degree of rational liberty would make us happy and prosperous j but we can not go farther. As an English colony we must not pretend tu more freedom that John Bull. John Bull is subject to a limited monar- chy ; ve must not claim to ourselves a republican government. The office of SheriflF indeed, was once elective in England^ but altered bystor tute. Magistrates never were elective. Magistrates are the hands of the King, by which he reaches and protects the most distant classes of his subjects. He has a right to call upon all the subjects whom he chooses to act in that capacity. He has an interest in the happiness of all his sub- jects ; but to prevent abuses arising from the impossibility of the King's knowing all those to whom it might be necessary to confide those impor- tant duties, certain qualifications had been provided by law. The King possessed the right of appointiug, but exercised it upon the riecommenda- tion only of his constitutional advisers. He thought it correct to pay, however, that by giving this power to the Executive Coimcil, We'JhpuId do that which we ought to avoid, viz. recognize the legal existen^e'^f that body in this country. Our only resource, therefore, must b| in^t^((0tt(jges of His Majesty's Courts in the several districts. It had* been' su^gtsMe^ that the property which formed the qualification of Justices slipuldlie in the parishes in which they were appointed. But Justices of theJ.jPeabe were not appointed for parishes, nor for counties, tut for ^diitrtctls'; 'an^ ought to have power to act in that capacity throughout the dlstlHct for which they were named. No alteration could be made in this' respect without a new division of the Province, arid it was impossible to make subdivisions for the purpose. He would move that the clatise should run '* by the Judges of the Courts of King's Bench, and of the Pi-cyvincial Judges in their several districts." Mr. Neilson asked to whom those counsellors were accoantdble in ca.se of giving wrong advice to the Governor in the choice of Magistrates ? Thill clause if expressed so, would throw all the responsability upon the Judges over whom we had no power, and removed it from the Governor. It was more easy to punish a Governor than a Judge.. Mr, Vallieres said, it would be absurd to leave this choice entirely to the Governor. Befoie he had been two or three years, or even before he had been two or three months, in the country, he might be called upon to appoint Justices of the Peace, while he knew nothing of their character. There ought to be responsable advisers upon whom he would depend.— ices in thii d with the ,stice were, t povyer^jln ould not bfl I electivel;-7 >f Engfand. irosperouV; t pretend tu ited monar- nent. The •red by_8ta- lands of the sses of his he chooses all his sub- the King's lose impor- the King :6mmenda- ect to 9ay, WQ^^hpufd mlie^f that th'e*^tl(jges suggfeste^ li'puldlie in the Peace district for jjs' respect le to raake it£se fihould ! Provincial janidble in agistrates ? upon the Governor. entirely to I before he ed upon to character, depend.— Justices of the Peace: 167 He was not aware that Jadges could not be nade accountable. We had failed ia one instance it is true, but what wan the reason and who wu to blame ? Accusations had been brought forward, and proceediogs iosti- tuted against the Chief Justice, but they had been abandoned. If any one was to blame, it was this House. If they had known how sore thej were of success, and had known how to proceed, they would have gone on and succeeded. He hoped this would not happen again. If, in the operation of this law, a bad choice of Magistrates should be found to ha?e been%ade,< they would know where, and against whom, to remonstrate. They ought not to believe that the Government would be deaf to the re- monstrance ; but even if it were they knew that all were liable to the responsibility of public opinion. Neither favour, nor influence, nor fear, nor even a dispatch from the Ministers in England, ought ever again to deter us from preferring accusations against Judges, who might be found culpable. If we were so deterred, we should be like the boy in the fable who called out a wolf! a wolf! when there was none, but when the wolf came, he could get nobddy to listen to his well founded alarm.— Just so we should'act if we raised alarm without following up our accusa- tions. But he hoped this would never happen again. At the same time, when the Judges should be removed from all political interference, he saw now no reason to doubt of their conduct being impartial, honoura- ble, and disinterested. In all that had been said of the Chief Justice, he was anxious to let it be understood, that nothing was meaut to be said against his conduct as a Judge, against his great skill in the law, and his fitness in every respect for his official duties, whenever political questions irere out of'view. His industry and application to business were pre- eminent. * Early and late he was at his post. He, himself, had often been obliged to wait on the Chief Justice, not only at seasonable, but also at unseasonable hours ; but it made no difference, his courtesy and affability were known to all the members of the bar ; his integrity, and skill as a Judge were undeniable ; and if — there was the if — if he had never en- gaged in political questions, he would never have been blamed. Upon reviewing the whole question, he concluded, that the Judges were the persons to whom this matter could best be intrusted; now especially when there was a probability of their being excluded from the Councils and removed from all chance of being influenced by political motives. ' Mr. Neilson knew that Judges, like all public men, were responsable to public opinion. But he wished for real responsability, without which public men were too ready to despise public opinion. The impeachment of Judges was a difficult and tedious way of obtaining justice. The House would recollect that a message on this subject was sent down by the Prince Regent, now the King, that the Legislative Council was to be the Court for trying such impeachments. Subsequently, another message had come down, that such impeachments must go home. There existed too little certainty, and consequently, too little responsability. '.I* n 1 V ■U Si 158 Judges, and Justices of the' Peace. Mr: Papineao allowed, that hitherto it had been Impossible to attack the Judges for any real or supposed misconduct. The analogy with En- gland, where an Impeachment was carried on by the House of Commons before the House of Lords, could not obtain here, on a trial before the Legislative Council. The Judges had seats in that Council, and although they might not be personally present on a question that respected them- aeWes, they would be present as to the influence of their friends, and col- leagues, and others possessing the same feelings. As things now stood, no justice, he admitted, could be obtained against the Judges, or against any whom they took under their protection ; but that was not merely on account of their being Judges, but on account of their being what they ought not to be, political characters, and effective parts of the Govern- ment, But the question of the impeachment of Judges might be delayed to another time. The period of their removal from the Councils could not be distant ; he hoped before the end of the session this important ques. tion would receive a last and favourable termination. Is was above all others essential to the liberty and prosperity of the country. As to the appointment of Justices, it must ultimately rest with the Governor, but could only be made through recommendation. And, as to the power of recommending, he saw none better qualified than the Judges, to deter- mine upon the ability, character, and property of those who should be appointed. The Judges were in continual contact with persons of all descriptions within their districts. To entrust such recommendation to them, would not encrease their power as Judges, which, when they were removed from political power, could not be too much respected and vene- rated. Considering then the prospect which he foresaw, of their being debarred from political power, he thought the Judges in the different districts the most proper persons, as a body, to recommend suitable Jus- tices of the Peace. The mischiefs arising from the political power of the judges, were not so much owing to the government as to the ambition of individuals, which led them to aim at being members of the Councils, on account of the power and influence, which they had thus an opportunity of acquinnj. The door of their future eniry into the Councils would soon be barred. 1 he English House of Commons, by their Committee, admit the unsmtableness of judges for being members of Councils. It would be more honourable, more gracious, more suitable to their own dignity if they would now allow themselves to be warned by the voice of the peo- ple, and Ly tha: of the Imperial Parliament, and give in their resignation rather than be compelled to go out. As advisers of the Crown they ou"ht to resign j they have now a glorious opportunity for displaying their public spirit, an opportunity which may never come again. By voluntarily abdicating their seats in the Councils, they would be honoured for their magnanimous conduct, and their future career as judges alone, would procure them more permanent respect, than attempting to hold that which It IS nnpossible for them to retain. ble to attack >gy with En- of CommoDs tl before the and although pected them- ids, and coU 8 now stood, I, or against ot merely on ng what thejr the GoTern- t be delayed :ils could not ortant ques- vas above all '. As to the OTernor, but the power of !8, to deter- should be ersons of all mendation to ;n they were ?d and vene- f their being he different luitable Jus- power of the ambition of Councils, on iportunity of auld soon be ittee, admit . It would »wn dignity, of the peo" r resignation n they ought laying their ' voluntarily red for their lone, would 1 that which Juitices of the Peace, • j^g appointment elective and th« PlLr« r obtained but by making the .K.. .hi. ™ m.,:ii t^ ,t etsir^nS p4^ ™ "vtr"""' the reforms now coinff on in Pn»i<.»^ u .. ° H^Acuce. What were established practic'e, ?* U LX:. wireVTe """'^/'r' ^P^ the country, it made no difference Xtherh/rwere Ji'.;-^^^^ *''"'"* *»f practice, adopted in the United States, o a„y^ ^hrree.se" "r"°*:.*° that the judges were excluded from »h« o!. •/ !u '^' Grantln* the nature l( their sUuaaons asl.^^t? 'i'' ^'"J .^°"''' """' ^'om might still influence hsSion'^^ hTnJj"' '^?«'""^ and tion to the late admini.trS Ion, in relatfon to thi! « T* /''' <^hief objec- pointments, but fordismlssah. « „?•! • ' ""''J®*^*' "" "»* for ap- the judges ^ould noTbTgSd Sy^l^Zlx o?pd£/'' '^ "^^"'^' *"« mending dismissals and making nLTnTonl Cnlf th?r"' '" '''^'""• reason, the judges, who had so manv nffl7 -' ♦ c ^^"^ "^^ °® «« Colony of Great RrWaSn T *° r ^ l^* "" ^'ovince, com nued a )ear8. tKn there, the ciperiracpt tad noUn.«,ed. There were m.ny 160 Jutticei of the Peace. >'■ t complalnfi, that the people made their chojce from party.con»ideration«, •nd that the Judges, decided partialiy, and in favour of the party by whom they wrere elected. ,,; i Mr. VioEtt confirmed this, and obserted, that in the State of New York, the office of Justice of the Peace, having lately become elective, bad given rise to many heavy complaints. The frequency of the elections was a serious evil. It was a continual strife who should be in, and who ihould be ou<. / !.'^ 7' '/!,., J Mr. Neilsom wished to add to what he had said on the impeachment ofJudftes. The reasons given by the Privy-Comicil, for their decision was, that rendering the Governor's advisers responsable for his acts, would destroy the responsability of the Governor himself. i w;«v# «»%.«!, »« Mr. Borgia said, if we wished the bill to pass, he did not see how we could deprive the Executive Council of the power of advising the Governor in the nomination of Justices. If we did bo, the bill would not pass. At present the Judges were only appointed during the King's pleasure ; he wished it were during their own good behaviour. If, this bill give the nomination of Justices to the Judges, this power ought, to be limited to them, during their good behaviour. There was no responsability in a Judge if he eouW be dismissed at the Kirig's pleasure. • ^ "With" regard to adopting the American plan of election, it might suit the people of the States, but not us. Under the British constitution, the appointment of Justices is vested in the King alone, the law can only direct the mode of recommending and naming them. If this mode produced some harm, one evil would expel another. lie wished however it were possible to insert a few words in the bill, which would authorize the Cures and the prioci* pal residents to make recommendations to the Governor. The amendment, moved by Mr. Vallieres to leave the nomination to the Judges of the King's Bench, and the provincial Judges was then carried. The second clause excludes Attornics, Solicitors} and Proctors, from being Justices of the Peace. . -^ ■ , *, ' if ' '■ Mr. Vallieres said he had been considering whether or not it was pro- per to incapacitate ecclesiastics from acting as Justices. , He did not like to see them act in that character, yet he did not like to see them excluded. In England clergymen acted as Justices, and he would prefer following the English laws as closely as possible. ^ y^ ^^^^ . , Mr. Neilson said, the combining the office of Justice with that of a clergyman in England, had been thought to produce inany abuses, which we ought to avoid. |jls:;it' .V, Justices of the Peace. rith that of a buses, which 161 The clause was carried without amendment. .«.;..; ,.^ , w&*''^ ''*^ clau'e.Wntainlng the qualification, some discussion arose whether eases for more than 21 years, or the usufruct fo Hfe „LTta' be coa8.dered«8,iroperty according to the intention of this Let ' " ? TBfWiftiiBH was afraid this might give rise to simulated deeds for *h» liable to (TifficuUies., In thecase of il^ctlons, rfo/ifl^oire* who Wd Tei^lJ a single room and half an acre ofl.na'id theon^irJifhad been kno^^^^^^ some forward as 40s ffeeholdfrs, as well ,i. the V»ons to whom ?he ren 4>r the house and garden had been made over. '" wnom me rest 4r.^ >K-"iL-"/fP!'*'^^ *^** ^y *"°**'er provision of the act. anv Jus 11 l'\%2'"'-'?''° wiissaid-tb act wIthDut'due qualification iou,d bUve the bifrd^n.of proving himselfduly qualified laid upon himself H- Woy d also be obliged to delUer In wri.lng to the plainJi'tf a » rment^? ' &Tl".*^'°.^f ' •""'?^^ he claimed the qualificationrfor the purp^% oT^beingfrffy examined. He thought this would remove the dif hcult^. Leases for along period- of years were not so mich used in f f^^jM^Af/f; K?fl'»nd, Yet in. many parts of the suburbs of Quebec nro. pjrt^ wasjttonlease8,or6a«xm;,;,y/^o'fica. thought, alone to the puSud«es and b^J" ^^^''^^^^^ related, he presence of the Chief Justice at the rfp^ih^^-' r" '^"^ occasions, the desirable and necessary" deliberations of the Council was both Mr. BoDHDAGES moved that the Hous« Qlm,,!^ • consider the expediency of repeailnfan o dina^^ ^"7?;'"^^ specting surveyors and the measurement of land. '* ''^' unJJ^'tJ^; del^^rS^Jat^^hrd*';: "",^" ^" °^'''"-- ^''^^ -- and a Commlttee^ad bee^^'^'plfed^o'eZ; e^rtr'*^"' *? ^»P'-' renewing or continuing such acts, it would h^L*/. ®. "P^^'e«cy of of that Committee should be deceived ""■*° ^"'^ "'^ ^''^ '^PO^t foul^t'td:•;:£;;f;::;^^f i^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ statutes, he had English Parliament to enact the revivlr bT'nn ""^'l °"/ °^'^^^' ^^^ ^^^ acts expired or about to exo re arrnrlll ' ^ I ''''*' °^ * '""^ «^"es of He thought it migh be Xht' as wl' 'K ^ '"*^'* "«'« f*'""^ necessary. follow thltexamplfjo^'Ut\^n^^erTeH^^^^^^^^^^ it would occupy less time, and save some expense ^ of discussion, In Committee on Mr. Bourdages' motion, it was resolved tl,.f U ^ i be expedient to repeal the ordinance in question. ^ ''°"'*^ The reports of the Committee on the aualifioa«!«n «f • .• peace; on the first clause being read MrTee oh ' .^Z J"' ^^ ^ *^^ that the appointment of justices^f the^eace ou^^^^^^^^^^ '""^ S""""",^ m princip.., ^ith those if municiparoffices 'uS he in^ amalgamated, forcities, now in progress-it wasVne ,nd tL^.m^fif- °'P°;.^*'*'""^*=^ pomted, was made by the King, and to him was reserved AV. -T mentof such In places which^ere incorporl d, the £„ ' S"- his right, and gives to those corporations the right of -mnoinfin i even by making bylaws for the regulation of thfmaostrT'hev ' appoint. So here, the districts, and such corporatioT,^as St tZZ^ 'vere similarly situated. It could not be saiS that tL; Tnfe'feredThh' A. mmi i!i ■ '1*^^' n: 164 Qualification of Justices of the Peace. i. II each other in England —where some of the corporations were older thad any statutes relative to the office of justice of the peace, and others of vary modern date — they never clashed there, why should they here ? Mr. Lbb said, the more he reflected on the elective system he had before recommended, the more he was convinced he was right. Whatever inconveniences might attend it, they were not to be compared to the ab- surdity of putting the same power into the hands of those who had already so much abused it. This act, confining the nomination of justices to the judges, would nevertheless make them political agents, or put them in the temptation of becoming so. He believed it had been the custom to send lists of persons, supposed to be proper for the situation, to the Chief Justice, and he had drawn his pen through several whom he did not ap- prove. The same thing would happen to the judges --they could equally erase from the list those who did not agree with them in politics, or whom they might otherwise wish to disgrace. If, on the contrary, the office was elective, the people would feel themselves secure in entrusting to men of their own choice the disposal of their properties and liberty. What was the strongest argument for the incorporation of the cities, but that by making the city magistrates elective, the citizens would be secure from oppression and injustice ? He did not see the difference sought, in this respect, to be established between the cities and the country. The in- habitants of the country had as much good sense, and were as well able to elect their own magistrates, as the citizens. Besides, it was wrong to impose new duties upon the judges who had already, as was represented, more on their hands than they could well go through. The example of the mother-country was adduced— in some instances it might be right to follow it, and in others wrong. The mother country itself had suffered much from adherence to old and unsuitable laws and opinions — this coun- try was very different, and oug* '. to have its choice in modelling itself upon the best part of those old istitutions, and not be burthened with that which was defective. He thought this bill, in its present shape, would do harm— the office ought to be left open for the people to fill— he spoke without either interest or ambition — he had no pretention to aspire to the dignity of a magistrate— he had far other wishes and pursuits— but as long as he was in that House, every time the liberties and rights of the people were concerned, he would speak his mind freely and fearlessly. He represented a city, but he would speak as much for the rights of the peasantry as the citizens. The country-people must know best who would suit them for justices of the peace— the Governor could not know the judges could not know — or even if they did, the best intentioned men would be swayed by some bias, some feeling, of which they may be unconscious, to nominate persons in whose favour they were interested. Mr. ViGER aaid this was not the lime to discuss the question which had been agitated by the last speaker. The whole House in Committee, I ^ii«isg Qualificaiion of Justices of the Peace. 165 1;:^. i'::zrXut'ii^^^^^^^^^ r^- ^- ^ .», the of Us evil effectsTnd ^ri •' V^- ^""^^ S'^*"' '^'""PlaJn bitterly *8 possible on the same footing as in Enlnd ThT^ l' l ""T*'^ " ""*;'* ed Commissions of the peace L»idanliT J^ •*'"' *' ^" *" •"*««'*'■ away with that system o7rpp^ssiL„^bV'S^^^^ ^"-"^ V''''^ '" ^°'"e been despised, a'nd all thei^r^eeirngs o^uuaged ""' ' ^'°^^' ''"^ as tVly^Sir tttd^Tl"-^ ^-'^ ^^^^'-'^ *o Mon- ies present liberal and stZlJ "PP*";/'"* J"«ti<'«» i" England. Under prospered beS ail examoll - T"^^^^^ the British nation had JoyeS, the wisdom and s'tbiiity of tTefr fntrZ "'^"^ '""'^ ^"• to develope both the physical aniinf!n ^ , '"^^'^^^'o^s. contributed With thi?examplef:St?ure;e/:eoSr Lrt'^o^r;^ ^'^ P^°P'^- tempt any essential alteration. An u^ ° ^^ *"° ^^S" to at- presentatives were elirfpH f«r ti,^ u i wiuci^ ainerent. Iheir re- Contact with tLTrcoS^title^t .*' J„:e ct 0^:?^ "' ''' 7* T""^ '" among the people themselves anHml! k ^^^^P'^^'^e were local, were or against tfose^hSte'd" t" fp^^^^^^^ ^hem" P^b^^' f^'--' ^or justices would become the slaves of the nPonll ^l ^ Jl^'s "leans, the at thei. frequent elections. Thh ^X!:^^^:^::!^ ^^ITV^r This deprived magistrates of their independence nnH LT- r l ^*^*^'- great dissatisfaction. The principle of^e?ectbn' h,,? h '" '''. """*"'^ length in America. County judges were el J i v. '''» ' ^*^«" ^^^'^d a great the supreme courts were peSent Th ' *^''"«'' *''^ J^^^^es in latter 'were learned, r„de%KTrhlourable''rrH'""'%"^ '''** *''= contrast to those who were elective "^^'/'^^f'^'^. ''"^ !rT;partial ; a strong supreme court in the StTteT wJr * P. , '^^^^ But the judges el cedb? tie peop^^^^^^^^^^^ '* the English bar. selves and th'eir integrity, for c:„S|on Office '"l^'nlV^t' *»•«- plan, men of information, of some fortune, and red inheres il thf"'"' try, would be laid before the Executive nnrl fh! • 1^ r . *'*'""- -uld be what they ought to be'^Sd wha't ihey 'are ^^t "o^ "'a^ '"^^ - scarcely know who are Icga'lly appointed^m^^lsSes^^No^'quSrai m. bi : I 166 Qualification of Justices of the Peace. tion has been required ; new commissions have been given to agents of the Government, to new• J 70 College at Kamouraska. tieman wished to alarm the House by quoting former grants. In the yeat 1817, money had no doubt been granted, it may be ^8,000, which bad not clone all the good that might have been expected. But that was be- cause the House, with the best intentions, had suffered themselves to be deceived. This was no reason for being deaf to nevr and well founded calls upon their compassion. Mr. Borgia from the Committee on the petition for a college at Ka> mouraska, moved for leave to delay the report till the 14th January. ]Vlr. ViGER thought the delay contrary to the established rules of the House. The time had been when the House had fallen into the greatest confusion by departing from its rules. The periods when private bills could be received, reported, and introduced, were all fixed by the House, and even published in the papers. It was every one's duty to know these established rules, and those who were required to give evidence before the Committees, failed in the respect due to the House, if they delayed to do so beyond the time appointed. The House would fail in the re- spect which it owed to itself, if it deviated from these rules, except for the most urgent reasons. It would expose itself to the reproach of partiality, if, for convenience, or on account of individual neglect, it infringed on its own regulations, which were published, and which it was essential to follow. Mr. Borgia cited the example of the British House of Commons, and thought the rules of the House were made for its own convenience, and might be dispensed with, when that convenience required. The petition had been presented the 20th Dec. The distance from Kamouraska, the season, the occupations and duties of the gentlemen to be examined, many of them Cures, and other professional men, were sufficient reasons why the Committee should obtain more time to report. In addition to all these reasons, this petition, though a private on*e, being in favour of a public institution, ought to be considered as of a public nature. Mr. Vallteres was inclined, from the petition having reference to the important iiubject of education, to consider it as of a public rather than a private nature. The House divided, and the delay was granted by a majority of 18 to 4. Mr. Lee moved that the petition of Judge Bedard should be printed. Mr. ViGER from the Committee on the Quebec Fire Insurance Com- pany, brought in a bill for its incorporation. . Mr. Vallieres introduced a bill to secure to plaintiffs the payment of costs on prosecutions upon judgments against real property. ), which bad •mmons, and Nor//i Channel of the St. Uwrence. 171 bf ^iwv^rr\?S*/*'" r°"'*^ ^' ** t"8"»"» i^^stfument In the hand- Mr. VAr.LiEBES insisted that the bill was nrooer dnH i.,.* t* r. starts up with a mortgage, who profits by the measurertXn TI?I lawyer .s perhaps as little able to lose the money as the diMor « a- actually defrauded of the advances he has made^and feels ?h«V K proverb verified, an plus pauvre la tesace. Acco7di„g'to^h ^tnchU:'; law-expenses were considered as privileeed and a? ha. „„V ? ' o«r other olain... I. „, ,ight .ha'. .h.;^hlfd L .o Zf..:S'"°"" Mr. Laterriere ofTered a series of fivp rosninH-ni. a • , • Ihis Channel had been entirely disused since 1776 and npVwp .• It was formerly preferred to th'e South Charel'an'd' th^e're^: st^;:," S IndlhenTl «;"^;hen principally on the' North side of the Iver ' and when the South side became more populous and cultivated Vhl c n' Channe came into general, and afterwards, exclusivfrse Vhe NortJ Channel was also much longer open— a fortrtieht lon»Pr X : \u . ^ own chiefly passed into fhe b'roader 3cVa3ral' ^^^^^^^^ sooner on the shoals and rocks than in the North Channel, wE therl were few or none. Had this Channel been frequented last T^ar vessels that had got entangled in the ice, an?some of £ S '"ul J not have GuflFered. Blame rested on the Trinity-IIoUse f^ noV\, " tTet'hTlr^;' surveys blame which theyVol'hlVe e ape'd'Tf nuait i ul'" ^°' * principle, that the licensed pilots ought to be ac quamtedwith every part of the river, instead of, on their examine?- solely questioning them as to their knowledge of the South Channel °"' The resolutions proposed were, in North Channel of the St. Lawrence, 1.— That In order to obtain* more secare and fortonate naTlgatlonof the Rl»er St. Lawrence, it is absolutely necessary for the pilots to be ac- quainted with all the channels and passages through which ships may pro- ceed, as well as on the North ^i' , '1 between the islands, from the harbour of Quebec downwards us >i a^ ire Island, as with ihe Soutft Channel of the said riter, fcupwctins ^^^ich they are alone examined. 2.— That in order to improve the navigation and to enjoy as early as possible the benefit of such channels, it is expedient to authorise the Trlnity-House to license, upon their gifing satisfactory proof ot their capacity in that respect, persons experienced in the navigation of the North Channel, and to give them the same rs'tsi 'A ^M.:.ge as is given by law to the other pilots. 8.-~That to induce the pilots already licensed to acquire aknowledge of the navigation of those various channels and passages, it is expedient to erant to them, for five years from the 1st of May, 1831, a premium of five fhillings per foot upon the draught of every vessel, over and above what is at present :>aid fo them by law, which they shall conduct either up or down through the North Channel ; to be paid out of the revenues of the Province. 4 —That no apprentice-pilot shall be licensed, after the 1st of May, 1829, without having been examined as to, and proved, his ability to pilot Tessels in those several channels. 5.— That to facilitate the navigation of the Traverse between Cape Tourmente and hleaux fieaiijr, buoys shall be placed thereon. Of these the Ist, 4th and 5th were agreed to, and the 2d and 3d post- poned for further consideration. Mr. Papineau conceived that chance first caused the North Chonnel to be frequented by the early navigators, and afterwards when the South Channel became the general route, the signaUstations, beacons and buoys which had been placed along the North Channel, were neglected and finally ruined. As to the Trinity-House, it had not been established till long after the South Channel was the only one that was frequented. The charts constructed from the surreys of Capt. Bayfield, chosen by the Admiralty for the purpose, from among the professionally scientific men with whom the navy abounded, would be invaluable, and could not bo too soon made public. According to his own judicious suggestion, as his charts were to be transmitted to the Admiralty, engraved and published, It would be right for a representation to be made to the Admiralty, of the great importance of such charts to our navigation, which would hasten their publication, and render them available for general use at an •arlierperiod than otherwise. In addition, therefore, he would luggest North Channel of tht Si. Lawrence. 173 tvlgation of I to be ac- i may pro- i, from the I the South nined. as early as thortse the lof of their ktion of the is given by nowledge of xpedient to nium of five )ove what is ither op or revenues of st of May, ility to pilot tween Cape ind 3d post' rth Channel :n (he South IS and buoys eglected and tab! ished till frequented, losen by the ;ientific men Id not be too stion, as his i published, iralty, ofthe rould hasten I use at an ould suggest an address to H. E. requesting him to obtain from the Admiralty thfi earliest possible publication and transmission to this country of thoia charts. Mr. FoRTiN said that it appeared In the evidence that several ship- wrecks had occurred of vessels taking the North Channel, and in one instance only fi?eout of seven had come safely through. Captain Bayfield's skill and experience could not be doubted ; yet the opinion of other navl- gatois was different. The very abandoning of the North Channel, was a proof that navigators generally considered the South Channel as preferable. Mr. Laterriere said that the hon. gentleman probably relied on the evidence of Mr. Lambly, whose opinion was that no benefit could be derived to the navigation in general by an acquaintance with the North Channel — if the hon. genti nan referred to that, he ought also to have seen that Mr. Lambly was but slightly acquainted with the North Ch muel Mr. E. C. Laqueux did not want much evidence on the subject. That before the House was clear and explicit— but that was scarcely wanted— the fact of the North Channel having been the principal one — and of the English fleet of several ships of the line, coming through it— was enough. He had himself lived till he was upwards of 25 years within view of it — and he never saw one shipwreck. The North Channel was in fact preferable —and a good ship with good anchors and cablen ran no danger — pilots should be appointed for that Channel, for at present the pilots for the South Channel, are acquainted with but a very small part of the river. Mr. QuESNEL observed, that if a ship took a pilot for the North Chan- nel, it might happen the weather might prevent the pilot from carrying her that way — and then she must take the South Channel — a knowledge of both Channels was, therefore necessary for all the pilots, which the hon. mover of the resolutions did not seem to contemplate. Mr. Laterriere meant, that there should be pilots licensed distinctly for the North Channel, who might or might not be pilots for the South Channel — and the premium of 5s. per foot additional would operate as on inducement for all to become acquainted with the North Channel, which was a main object ; and in a few years the pilots for that Channel would become sufficiently numerous. Mr. E. Lagueux believe that one summer would be sufficient for a seaman to become acquaint. J with the North Channel, to enable him to act as pilot ; ten or twelve pilots for the North Channal would be wanted. Mr. Papineait said, that after having declared that it was absolutely necessary that pilots should be acquainted with all the Channels, (the first resolation having been agreed to,) it was equa'ly necessary to do all that 174 North Channel of the St Lawrence. ■41. could bs done to follow that op -a pilot who had only a knowledge of the South Channel might by Btress of weather be driven into such a situation as to require a pilot for the North Channel. The Trinity-IIouse, therefore, ought to cause a certain number of such pilots to be kept at Crane Island, Isle aux Coudres, Malbaic, and other places, to ansist vessels ; and it occurred to him that the stations of such pilots might be designated by signal. poles for the information of mariners. It certainly appeared to be a defect In the law, that hitherto an acquaintance with all the channels and passages of the river had not been required of pilots— and it would be by no means n hardship imposed upon them to acquire that knowledge- it was for their own advantage to become more perfect In their profession. Mr. BoissoNAULT did not think so much of the necessity of all this, as other gentlemen did. Let all the present pilots come forward, and there would not ten of them be found who were not acquainted with the North Channel. lie doubted whether the Province ought to be called on to pay the proposed premium. Those who were more immediately concerned- merchants and shipowners— were fitter. Pilots are not now confined to a knowledge of the South Channel. (A member observed, but they are only examined as to that Channel.) The reason why they are not ex- amined is because they know it. Mr. Papineau said, let the Trinity-House examine all the present pilots and give certificates to those who do know the North Channel— and then there could be no objection to employing them for both Channels; and when the case occurred of a vessel being obliged to take the North Channel, and a special pilot for that Channel came on board, all the other pilot would have to do, would be to shew his certificate. This too would obviate an objection that had occurred, namely, that the premium proposed would operate as an incitement to the cupidity of pilots, who Mere not well qualified, to undertake that passage ; which none ought to undertake but such as had undergone a full examination. It was true that in case of misfortune, they were subject not only to lose their pilotage, but to dismissal ; this, however, might not be sufficient to deter an unskilful pilot, as to that Channel, from running his chance of gaining the addi- tional premium. Thus too they would have a strong motive given them to acquire proficiency in their calling. With regard to the amount that su< h premiums would take out of the public money during five years, it was of little consequence compared to the public and private advantage, that would be derived from a thorough knowledge of the North Channel. There were two consequences ;— either the North Channel is better than the South, or the South better than the North— if, after a few years expe- rience, the North Channel is found to be the best, it will be most followed, luid no more premiums required ; but, if the reverse, then will the South Channel be preferred. The premium proposed, is sufficient to cause the .\orth Channel to be preferred if it be belter or equal, but not sufficient , ' y EncouragemcHt of Fisheries/ 175 I.l?.r.i!'"' ''^^"•'°"'!'«"t «' the South Channel, should that be found to possesfl the greatest adTuntages. Mr. BonoNNAULT observed that the premium of 5s. per foot would Tt ll ^'^T *f ' '^'' ^"'^1' Channel in preference ; ^and calcuratin^ Sv thV K?^ °"^r,''" °'L'^f*"" •'°"*" "^ ^««"'» ^l** ""o^nt to be paid aL«^ ** ' could not be less, and probably more, than £3600 per annum, a sum which might with as much utility be expende«l in kJor premiums to those vessels who sailed round the Cape of Good Hope. Mr. VioEBsaid if merchants and Captains found their interest in the North Channel being most frequented— they would do so-thev were certainly more interested than any other persons, yet he had heard of no application from them in favour of this measure. Mr. Latehkiebb believed the hon. member for Hertford rather ex- aggerated the amount of the premiums that would be payable— but were It jfe'3600 per annum, what was that compared to the loss of lives and property caused by the shipwreck of only four, three, or even two vessels ? —What would even ^4000 or ^5000 be compared to the contributine: to the safety of the navigation of the St. Lawrence, now frequented bv many hundreds of ships from all parts. House in Committee on Mr. Christie's motion for the encouraffement of the Fisheries, Mr. Proulx in the Chair. ^ Mr. Chbistib, said this was a proposal merely to enquire whether it was eipedient to make legislative provision for the encouragement of the * ishenes. Fisheries were in all countries, which possessed the means of prosecuting them, considered as material objects of national industry a source of prosperity and wealth, and merited liberal encouragement, or at least were well worth the attention of every legislature. Accordintflv every maritime nation had felt their importance, and gone far to en- courage and extend them ; particularly on the ground of their being a nursery for seamen. Great Britain had been lavish and the United states not less so, in doing all they could to nourish .ad increase this national fountain of riches— nor had France been backward. The Fishe- ries on the coasts that belonged to this Province and to the other British Provinces in America, were a gold mine which had yet, as regarded this Province, scarcely been explored, and would be found to contain inexhaus- table treasures, if property cherished. The Fisheries in and adjacent to the Gulph of St. Lawrence had been a great object of jealousy and envy to the United States,— they coveted its participation— and every com- mercial treaty and convention made with thi>m, shewed their eager de- eire to avail themselves of them. Such being the case, the only difficulty he saw in the question, was what was a reasonable encouragement, and how far we might go in that respect with a due consideration of the object. iM 1^ 376 Encouragement of Fisfuriea. i and of our means. He would deUul the encouragement already given to the Fisheries by law. The encouragement given by the British act of 6 Geo. IV., cap. 114, is in general terms, that *' any sort of craft, food, and victuals, except spirits, and any sort of clothing and implements or materials, fit and necessary for the British Fisheries in America, import- ed into the place, at or whence such Fishery is carried on, in British ships," shall be '* dutyfree." This enactment of the British Parliament, it would seem, is understood in the neighbouring Provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to supercede all colonial acts, or bye-laws, by which any duties may have been imposed on such necessaries, &c. That, however, is not the case in this Province. Profincial duties imposed here are not disturbed by this act, and the duty of 2| per cent., on goods imported into this Province, is paid, as well upon articles necessary for the Fisheries, as on all other merchandize. By an act passed in February last year, the legislature of N. Scotia voted £5000 for the encouragement of the Fisheries of that Province, to be distributed in bounties, viz :— Is, on every qwt. merchantable dry cod fish ; 5s. per ton to vessels employed for three months in the fishing of cod, haddock, mackerel, &c. on the coasts of Nova Scotia, and Gulf of St. Lawrence :— 3s. 8d. additional per ton, for such vessels as fish on the coasts and banks of Newfoundland, and in the straits and shores of Bellisle, and Labrador :— 5s. additional per ton, for such vessels as land their cargoes offish within the Province of Nova Scotia : — and ^500 to be distriouted in premiums for the great- est quantity of dried cod-fish caught, cured, and brought to market, at the harbours and fishing-stations of the Province. With respect to the encouragement given in New Brunswick, he was not provided with the authority of a Provincial Act -, but he had a private letter, by which it appeared that there, all necessaries for the Fisheries were duty free, and that bounties were given of Is. 8d. per cwt., for all cod-fish brought in fit for exportation, and 20s. Halifax per ton on all vessels that fished in the Gulf of St. Lawrence or on the banks of New- foundland. These advantages enjoyed by the New-Brunswick fisher- men, were peculiarly illustrative of the propriety of giving encourage- ment to our own. On the New Brunswick side of the Bay Chaleur, opposite and within sight of our own sedentary fisheries, these advanta- ges were enjoyed, whilst our fishermen, deprived of those privileges, con- sequently ^o to market far less advantageously than their neighbouring fellow-subjects. He was unable to state the encouragement given by the French government, but it is certain that liberal encouragement is given to their armateurs and fisheries at the islands Miquelon and St. Pierre, and at Newfoundland. With respect to the fisheries as they no.v are, although comparatively trifling, they are yet something, even on the score of consumption of our agricultural produce. They consume a pro- po'tion of it. He had not been able to procure any precise statemer ' of the exp-jrts to Gasp^, it not being customary to make entries of produce, son. ^'1 Encouragement of Fttheries. 17^ thefisherlesof such produce may ^^?yr If^nL 7?'"™?""" ^'^ had sent in 1897, upwards the superior iighbours, he ent did much )n every cwt. every vessel for one ship, crew of such share in the d be native wera almost and they en- ith regard to ree fourths of rths of them )nopolize the tr two of war on the coast »ke ourselves e carrying off elf, but here It should be inally enable pies of other 1 was widely ical relationi Encouragement of Fisheries. 179 were different from ours, and ought to have no influence on our conduct. 1 his colony was essentially agricultural, and nothing ought to be introduced pari of [J: S,r"'°'"" ?l 'i' P-P'«;-" that occupation. Only a small Countrla^h Jk '^ '""^'^ be engaged in maritime objects and fisheries. marUim! , •" '^ ^u""^ "*'''* °^'=°^^*' ^'" "^^"'•''•'y have a numerous cTredKtS' *t%'"'?L-' of those engaged ia agriculture, when cairied toits height ; but in this country, with a vast extent of land un- The n?„ rr'*"'*'"' i! ^«"»d^«-W to withdraw the aentbn *hV^hP^ • '*" «fi"c"»t»fe and direct it to fisheries; to encourage them by premmms and drawbacks, to abandon the permanent sources of prosperity which the hand of nature had opened up. The inhabitants were s.JFer.ng distress from the failure of the crops, a^nd it would be very t^of ?h« P'^ °"* "?rr" "P°" " ^•^♦^"^ «"^ ^"/ thinly peopled per- il h A T'"'^' .^^^ atteT.ptto convert Canada, which had but one OMtlet to the sea, into a maritime country, and to br njr 'ler into com- petition wU:. the United States, and with the'province so? No a sS and New Brunswick, would be as preposterous as if Austria, which po! sesses only two sea-ports in on. corner of the empire, were (0^™ at be- coming a great maritime and mercantile power. The practice of neiX bounng Provinces, ought to be no argument for us to give bounties. They were compelled, by their situation, to depend much on the sea But we were not so situated and if we wanted fish, it would be better to buy^t of those colonies. It would be cheaper to do so than to catch them here by means of bounties and drawbacks. Nature also presemed s"rS obstacles to prevent the fisheries in question from rising to importanc" !! Luntrt'f tL 9 ' ""*' '"T! closed and the dangers greater than in other rsTnartoffh?|P'-'-",*''"*^' '^^"'}' is now paid by all consumers, was a part of the Provincial revenue, of which all ought to share eouallv ed. This exemption would form but a small encouragemen to the fisheries If they deserved it, and it would be an act of injustice to the rest of the Province, and would be so connidered. He did Lt think i^t expedient to encourage the fisheries in the way that was proposed, ^'^P^'^ent to Mr. Christie observed, ,hat though we might not rival the other Pro- vinces we ought to aim at having our share in the fisheries. If we can "ot get all that we wish, let us get what we can. «tw7'*'^'''*'V'l'*.*''"l''^'^ exceptions to political, as well as to e rL- .""' /\ft« ""ght be essentially agricultural, and yet find it exceedingly useful to devote part of her attention to other objects To grant encouragement to fisheries was no more unjust to the rest of th^ country, than giving aids for roads, bridges and o he local objects It ad been objected that only a small part of the population was tTbe bene Se Lh a.°!r"'V ''"'n*'^' ^'^''''' "^Sht become useful to the ^^hole , and at all events small portions were entitled to the atteutiou of 180 Encouragement of Fisheries. the House as much as large ones. If it is but a small object, we ought to make the most of it. If we had but one opening into the ocean, etery part of it ought to be made available, with the greater ease. The less sea-coast we possessed, the more pains we ought to take to render it useful, and to derive from it all the advantages it can afford. Mr. BocRDAOES said that the 2| per cent duty was a specific part of the revenue in which Upper Canada was interested, and with which we could not interfere without the consent of that Province. Wilh regard to the question itself, it might be asked, why does not the district of Gaspe prosper, why does Us population not exceed 5000 ? The answer IS , because we had not encouraged them in the pursuits for which that territory is most suitable. It is indeed best calculated for fisheries, and for that reason ought to be encouraged in that branch of industry which is congenial to it. By affording thenm encouragement in this way, we should draw out the resources of the district, bring capital into it, and in the end improve agriculture by the encrease of population that would follow. Mr. Christie begged to correct a mistake with regard to the population of Gaspe. No official census had been made, but from various circum- stances it appeared that the population must far exceed 5000, and even the Surveyor General estimates it 7400. During the years 1824, 5, 6 and 7, the revenue had exceeded ^800 ; and in 1828 was expected to exceed £1000. He could also assure the House, that the agriculture of Gaspe had been much improved during the last ten years; and, that the popula- tion raised the whole of their subsistence, except what was required for the fisheries* Mr. Neilson said Gaspe ought not to be so much under-valued. The Provinces adjoining to it prosper and increase in population, commerce and agriculture, why should not Gaspe ? Its climate was not worse, its soil was like theirs, its harbours, bays and coasts, were similar to theirs. Though we may not know its value, they do. If we thought Gaspe bor- thensome to the Province, it would be easy to get rid of it. New Bruns- wick would grasp at it, would be glad to have it added to her territory. The separation of Gaspe had been spoken of in England ; but he hoped that would never take place. It was an integral part of Canada as much as any other. He considered the whole of Canada as one. If any man snould ever propose either here or in England, to cut off Gajpe or any otherpartofou. territory, he would consider him as an enemy to Canada, and his country. Mr, Christie's resolution was then carried, the House resumed and the resolution was referred to a Committee of five, with instructions to en- quire into the state of the fisheries, ard the best means of advancing them. Proceedings of the House. 181 ralued. The n, commerce The Committee to nrhom was referred the petition of the inhabitants of Frampton, praying for aid in constructing a bridge, reported in favour of granting ^^00 for the purpose. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. On the third reading of the bill ** for preserving for the purposes of husbandry, the graijgi growing on beaches," it was resolved that the order of the day be dischargeoi, and the bill be read a third time on the 1st of September next. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Friday, 9th Jan. Mr. QuESNEL brought in a bill for establishing a new market-place in the city of Montreal, and Mr. Leslie one for establishing a new market- house in the St. Lawrence suburb, Montreal. Mr. BoDRDAGEs brought in a bill to regulate the exercise of the rights of proprietors and lessors against their tenants, and lessees. Mr. Vallieres presented a petition from the Eastern townships on the River St. Francis, representing the state of the roads, for an aid to the amount of ^6800, for the repairing and opening them, and for road- laws, and a land-tax for their maintenance : — referred to the Committee on the Petition from the Eastern townships. Mr. CuviLLiER presented a petition from the town of Dorchester, (St. Johns,) praying for the establishment of a Court of Jubtice, which was refused to be rtceived, the time for receiving such petitions having expired. Mr. Leslie, from the Committee on the petition of the American Presbyterian Society of Montreal, brought in a bill to afford them the relief prayed for. Mr. Neilson from the Committee on the merchants' of Quebec peti- tion for reimbursement of charges in sending a commercial agent to England, reported thereon unfavourably : — on the petition for a road to Sillery-Cove, favourably : — and unfavourably on that for opening avenues from Champlain-street to the river. Mr. BouRDAOES reported favourably io the petitioners for the loan of seed-corn, &c. — also from the Committee on the peiition from the coun- ties of Bedford, Richelieu and Surrey, for an aid for roads ; favourably ; — and from the Committee on the Drummondville road, reported in favour of a grant of ^900, to impro w I .le road already commenced from Drummondville to the Seigniory of Del&y, and sSbOQ for the improve- laent of th« road from DrummondviUe to Frampton. m i| run 4 li: 183 Lotbiniere Petition for aid. u 1 iV J Mr. BouRDAGEs in bringing in tlie first report of the Committee en the petition from Lotbiniere for relief, moved for a Committee of the whole to consider of the report. The Committee had so far been satisfied, that the distress was real and the case urgent— that they recommended an ad- dress to His Excellency to advance ^200 for the immediate relief of the suflerers. It appeared there were actually 35 families who had no pos- siMe means of support, and had had none since the 1st of January last • and other families, making up the number of 83, who possessed a greater or smaller portion of provisions, but would, io a short time, be destitute. Ul all laws, the law of hunger was the most pressing and peremptory - there was no putting that oflFfor a single day-and it was, therefore neces- saiy the report should go immediately to a general Committee. Mr. VittER begged the hon, mover to recollect that, on a former occa- sion, after very strong representations, and when almost ^§30,000 had been voted for the relief of alledged distresses, yet after five or six weeks of cool examination, it had been found that the distress was much ex aggerated. If there were 35 families in that parish that were destitute he had no doubt that 35 other parishes might very soon be found in which there were also 35 distressed and destitute families. Mr. Solicitor General said, this case was not analogous to that which had been alluded to. There the recommendation came from the Crown whilst, in the mean time, the Governor had provided for the urgent want that existed— had put his hand into the coffers, and first removed the dis- tress, aud then applied for an indemnity for so doing. The difference was 'S^i"^ ^i* ? ^"°*''^* point— then £30,000 was required— now only it^OO- and that to relieve 36 families who were perishing for want (i subsistence. It had been usual in cases of aid to allow at least two days for consjderation-but the reasons urged for an immediate consideration were undeniable. Besides, that part of the country, and every part of the country, ought to understand that their representatives were alive to their wants and representations. Let it go to a general Committee, and there anotherV" *^^" '' ^^ "''^^*' whether it should be postponed even House in Committee on said petition, Mr. Larue in the Chair. Mr. BouRDAGES gave a short history of the petition, and a sketch of the distress on which it was founded. Meetings had been held, and respec- table persons sent round the country to ascertain the extent of the relief required. A sum of ^1000 was wanted, and the Fabrique there had come to the determination of mortgaging its property in order to obtain that loan. The Cure and a deputation had come to Quebec, and had endeavoured to borrow the money in the city upon that security, but in vain, and now came to the legislature for aid. It was not alms they were seeking, but a I Mr. in, and now Zotbiniire Petition for aid. 183 •ts:;::^:^::^^;;^';^^--!;^ ^ Tithed.. compassion and humanity of the HouT H.J' Ta^ ^' "PP^^'^*^ **» *»>« had come to his knowledge on ^thatmo;„5n^7^''' "'^°^~" * fact that in order to procure food for tLdesrute''Ld'*r"'l""^^*'''"'^ Shore to the ^^heries of les petitesmoru^^^^^^^^ «*>"« '^long considerable quantity, and d s ribu?S 1/ ^'?''"»> ''**J purchased a jod such was ?heiraa'g;rnLsat'"h\thulrth!tt '"*"."'' '^"•"'««' fish was instantly devoured raw. He shoifld n """^ 'nstances, the Excellency, requesting him to advance S TnH^ !k "^''^^^ *° "« titute families might receive immedLf^°?.V order that those 35 dea. were considering of the experency of Xn"' "^"«* *»•« Committee wanted. peuiency of advancing the remaining £800 Mr. Nehson thought this case was nno «p i j- particular case, that might be excepted Tom "''^ ^l^^'-f «~one of those respectable gentlemen who had come hU'.-"'i''^ °^ ^'"'"- '^''^ pable of deceiving the house. He knew hiLT^^K "***' '"^ *"« '"<^^- of distress in the%ountry-.and thou.h JhU ' '^"""7'' « &^««t '^^al to proper forms, and gen/ral syL^ hf wtldlK^o^nt^'^ °P^"-> The distress of'this parishTas'noTstnlular'inr '"^*"'* <^«*er^inatio„; and it would be proper to do wha couM hTi "V^ ^^"''"^ *"'' S'-^at, .-nust do it with discretion. It would be r^.h^ ^T *° ^""i^te it-but we there was not some exaggera i^ Ther.^. u'l"""''^ *° '^°"^''^«'' whether jpectable gentlemen wh'o^adTLnl'p'h^^^^^^^^ ^''^ - hours, were themselves convinced of Vh^^nJ- f fu^^,"" ^^^^titute neigh- sented but the very human" ^andlnstb,'';^^ of what they rep%. induced them to do this, might likewl^P w ^ .i^^"". ^^'^Positions ivhich themselves, as to the exSty tfXress7escrH"*^ agriculturists often arose from the bad raltnl • "'* .^"*'"' ^'"'>»g farmers, and, independent of bad seasons ilA/'r' "" '"P-'ovidence of at all times. We must make DelirHpn ' a^^^ ^'P-"*^" '" ^'' ^'aces and cipitate grant of money on su'chtcall'Tl"' T''''''''' ^ P^- and less prudent, if they supposed thevr"'-^ * ""^^ ^'"^ "'^''^'"' lature, and by mking out a story o dltrl f "^ ^""" «« to the legis, their own want of foresight S^L ' ^'^ ' ""PP'^^ ^° "^ke up for dicity in detail, but th sTo'uld be to encouT' "''''i^-*" ^"PP^^^ ^^"- The Assembly'ought not to carrVa poo" b^fo .T" '"*' ^^ ^'^«'^«^'«- general business of the Province warthei^n.1 '^'1'". ''""^^''"^"ts. The caees, were there was more ha„ ord Uu ^ wl" '^=".'1 \ '^'^'''^^ '^'^ u.uiaLfortaki4r;r"i4:nSt;^^i;:i^^^^^^^ '"'fink HI 4 ' ^'' ^ U I , .], !J"U, ■4fa m wiiii 184 Lotbiniere Fetition. .'!. sent of the other branches ; and now we are doing the same thing. Th« other branches of the Legislature have privileges in that respect ; and if we want to prevent the Executive from doing what we have blamed it for, let us not set the example ourselves of a disregard for the rights of the other branches. If we wish to proceed by address, we should send a mes- sage to the Legislative Council, to request them to join us in an address to the Administrator ; or if by bill, since the case was one of emergency, the bill might be passed, sent up on Monday, and His Excellency's approba- tion obtained forthwith. These were the only two proper ways, and he thought proceeding by bill was the best. Mr. Lee had been at first opposed to the grant, but after reading the report, and being convinced of the truth of the distress described, and the respectability of the persons applying, he thought relief ought to be afforded. He must, however, say something as to the Hon. Speaker's ob- jections to an address on the subject, from the House, to His Excellency. This, in his opinion, was depreciating the House. It was this House alone that could grant money ; and they need not go to another branch and ask their concurrence. There had been do example in England since the Revolution, of the Lords or the King, refusing to sanction any grant made by the Commons. A vote of the House of Commons was considered suf- ficient. In cases of loans, the agioicurs, those who subscribed for the loans, depended alone on that vote, and go to work raising the money, the very mom»nt it is passed in the House — and before the formalities of the con- sent of the Upper House and of His Majesty, were gone through, paid it into the Exchequer. Many instances appear of money granted by the Commons v»ithout those previous formalities being attended to. Perhaps, however, memt.srs fell now into the mistake which the House made in the appropriation-bill of 1826, by which the monies granted by that bill were directed to be accounted for to the Legislature instead of to the Assembly^ ^hich involved a great absurdity. The Governor, as one of the branches of the I^egislature, would have thus to lay his own account before him- self. Perhaps this was considered a sufficient ground for supposing that, as by this act the whole Legislature had to audit the accounts, the branch which possessed the sole power of granting money, could not vote it w^li. out the concurrence of the other two. The appropriation-bills of Lpper Canada were drawn up with greater constitutional propriety. They spe- cially stated that the accounts were to be laid before the Commons House. He hoped the House would be alive to this essential difference this Ses- siono With regard to the question before the House — if he voted for this measure, it would only be on the score of humanity. Mr. ViGER wondered how any Hon.,Member could contend that we might vote money, and, without the consent of the Legislative Council, apply it as we liked. The other branch has a voice also— it has its veto— and though in money bills they could make no amendment, they might Lothiniere Petition. 195 .. ;.oi..ed on., wh?„ «%r' r«7re' e^n^^^^^^^^^ '""' "'.""' by the hon. member for the Lower To.n .h! a "'l^^"' "' >ne»lioMd priation-bill, .„d he did not foeT hlb.«i»/it hLSr*'' '^• "W"" l« the que.tion iHelf, Iboaih the di.lr..« m?.h. i. * " 9""'">n- Aj m.»y olher place, we're .. badlyoff « w" f, "jf " "'' "'8«"l. y-t, conbdenlly itate.thatone-fonrlh o.A.L !'..• ?"'/°"'''. •>« bcliored, real wereL the J.n.epLSeLrfflfThVp''''''"''''''™'"''*'''"'- -ame .toation. Yet, 1r the Commute"" L'^^7.™"7« "'«'r - «■» St Vo:e:Th?ctN»%t7i7-'> r ""''-^'^^^^^^^^^^ P-bUc money, -"Hoc. bei;l!Ktrrtear:r^repriL7 "' Mr. Solicitor General said tha*^ :r ♦!.- aimilartothatof 1817 whenl ar„l= ^ Present question was one of the distressed par UheT he sh3 ZV.^ T"^ l"? ^ '"""P' ^^^ «»•« relief ^00,tosavefro'ma^V?a^^^^^^^^^^^^^ a trifle, be destitute for many months Thp nMrf nothini?to eat, and would was, that other partloTthe ^oWneet/eririT'"'' 1^' ''^^" "'^'^ reason-that distress is not officially before u, and t?—""* t^'' " "« tioners come here moreover as a las^ resoTrp '♦k k**"'' 's-^hese peti- to door-tried to remedy the r wants wTth n .7.- ^^ ^"""^ ?°"" f'"*" door Quebec, at expense and risk-trTed aluLlv mT" ^nfines-come to to the AssemWy^but th fdoi" com caj 1ntn^'',V"'^u'^"^"^ '"^^ come with oflFers of adequate securiTv tnL k '**.'''"« *^''*"'J^ J *hey assistance in their calami^ty! He d^ffLn .^1" ,"T *''" '''^°''"^« <'°r its for the Lower Town Ts t^o the ri^tJof thr a« ^ ^T '^' '"'"• "'«"">er He hoped it would be recollected thLIh j^^^^^^ly i„ voting money, we ha? no right to draw the r-se'trg';^^^^^ ZV'' P"^-''^'^^ other branches of the Legislature If 3 W^ • ^•'"'^""ence of the to the Legislative Council to pack up their t^kTanTbe^o^"!' ""'^''^^ no need of them. But we have neednf *L1^ I u^® oif^that we had Teto upon all our procee^Ls and *h °V .*'''^ ^'"'^ * constitutional in those they haveTo hhg fut a ve o TZZ .T °"'^-'"^"^"' l^^^'"" « form the balance of powe?-the balanci hS^» be remembered that they Crown-and we musUet them Md the 2ler' H h^ '^!.T'''^ ^"'^ *»'« berwho had so humanely and hono«rablv ^^^od ? "^^^^ measure, would follow it con Itutiona IvVn hv ^^""'^ .*" "^"""^^^^ this resolution to the Legislative rnn.n^ ^' ^ P'^P^^'ng to send this Then all would be riS-an would L !,"^ '''^"^^* '^''"^ concurrence -ne, might be forthflin^^X^nd^t T^eTdT^l^r ''^ Hot '^i::^:^:''^:J^^^^- .t *^ r ^^--'^ '•- ^^^ ^..edged, and ^on^r.., .y^^Z^^l^^^^^;^^^ if, <:.m\ 1L-. ^^1 m m illK , { • ( fi 186 LothinUre Petition. 1(V88. They alone coold propoM taxes and means for raising a revenae, wiiich required the consent of t hi, L»rd3 and the King; but when raised, at* they alone had the appropriation of it, they might vote that money away, by an address to the tlirone, as they iil«ed ;— and large sums had been appropriated in that way. In this House a similar course had been often pursued— and he did not know that any difficulty had arisen In consequence. Mr. QoESNEL said, that, considering the urgency of the case, the many speeches that were made on the occasion, put him in mind of the school- master in the fable, who, whilst the boy was drowning in the river, preach- ed to him a long discourse on his imprudence, and the danger he had thereby exposed himself to. It had been said, that if we encouraged this application, we might be every day pestered with similar petitions. What then ? when they came, we might consider and examine them ; but we should not every day find so well authenticated a case as that now before us but why should we now speak so much of general distress — the short crops, &c. We have nothing officially besides this petition before us, except that from St. Philippe, which was now also under consideration. As 4o the mode of proceeding, he should have preferred it to have been by bill— but as it would not be possible to carry a bill through in suf- ficient time, he should prefer communicating by message with the Legis- lative Council, who were deliberating on the same subject, a simul- taneous message having been sent to them by His Excellency. Mr. Vallibbes, in reply to the observations as to the rights of the House, said, there could be no doubt that the right of granting money Tested alone in the Assembly, but the concurrence of both tiie other two branches was necessary. But he would not at present dwell on that ques- tion. It is a question of disposing of part of our funds — part of our pub- lic riches — part of these were to be expended for supporting the first and most essential kind of riches which a country possessed— which was men population — and here we are called upon to preserve a part of those essential riches— a part of our population — a great number of individuals —who, if not relieved by us, or by some remarkable interference of Pro- vidence, will be condemned to perish of hunger. If even by this we ex- pose ourselves to other appeals — be it so. We will dispose of them when they come, on their respective merits. If proofs are demanded of this case what more can we have ? Some things prove themselves — we have seen, in times of great distress, many applications made for relief— but did we ever see an entire ecclesiastical establishment, with the Cure at their head come forward, and offer to pledge all their temporal property, private and public, to provide their parishioners with food — this proves itself — the distress must be great and crying. Let it be kept in mind, it is not an alms, a gift, a charity, they ask, but a loan with security. Stress had been laid on the probability that by granting aid in cases of distress, we a reventw, hen raised, lat money sums had e had been arisen in the many the school* er, preach- er he had jraged this as. What 1 ; but we low before —the short before us, sideration. have been igh in suf- the Legis- , a simul- ;hts of the ing money B other two I that ques- 9f our pub- lie first and :h was men ft of those individuals ice of Pro- this we ex- them when of this case have seen, but did we their head private and itself — the it is not an Stress had listress, we Reports of Committees. 187 shou d encourage improvidence, and destroy the energy and lelf esteem which would prevail with those who depend solely on themselves. It rr it fj"-?-*""^ '■"P"'^ II'* '""*'"^^- '*'^"« VooT people, these dli- its o la^S^'? "fr^'K^ r^'^r"^ °f P'operty-all hkve' their little lots of land--drive them, by their dire necessity from these, their homes and compel them to go a begging from door to door, and fVom paHsh to and"'?;il''^ r^K °( '^''" '"^'6>' ''"'^ self-esteem ? They iSse both "s«afchar!t7: '" ''' '°""' '''''"''' '"^"'•'=^«^^' and dep'endents on ag;if;it'o:rdrcrmttt::r^^^^^ ^° "- ^^^^-^^^ -*''- In the House, when resumed, a debate arose as to when the report should be received t appeared that it was a rule of the House, that on all sen^i'';;syanc?. *"^ ^'' ^""°'' ''"' '°'" "'''"'"'"« *^'' '"''' '" *'»« P"**- r^5l\hf''^''T^ '*"^^ ^\' ^''°^'' ^■■8""^ «*" *»"» "ther side ; and in result the report was ordered to be received to-morrow. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The bills for a compensation to Benj. Ecuyer, and to reoav a. mm «/ money to Alexander Wood, were passed. ^ ' ^^ * ""^ **' HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Sati'kday, lOlh Jan. Reports from various Committees were received :—viz :— On the neti- tion from Chambly, for abridge, evidence without remark.— On the peti tion relative to turnpike roads ; favourably. -On the petition from St. fJl » Jf •'^P^'' 9"^*'*^*' ' favourably.-On the petition from the Trustees of the Quebec Library ; that it is deserving of public encouragement.— On the petition of Judge Bedard ; in favour of a pension, and that th« Judge of Ihree Rivers should have the same rank as other Judges.— On the PfOt'on from the Natural History Society of Montreal ; in favour of an aid of f200.-0n the petition from Caxton ; to lay the evidence thereon before the Committee of roads.-On the Montreal General Hospi- tal, and C^rey Nuns Hospital j respecting the mortality amongst foundlings and recommending grants of money for insane persons and foundlings.— On the petition for a bridge over the Chaudidre River ; unfavourably, from the uncertainty as to the best place where to constract It, aud foe 2 A i '''i ■ 1 : ■J i i'3 m' 9 i ^1 Hi ''y.i ,:- . if m '-f-4 i.-||'> IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) A<^ 4 M. fc 1.0 I.I It m 2.5 2.2 2.0 1.8 L25 11.4 IIIIII.6 <^l Photographic Sciences Corporation <^.. <^ «P 23 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER. N.Y. 14S80 (716) 872-4503 --f. 188 Public Recounts. want of necessary plans, and information.— On the petition for improving the Quebec roads ; favourably.— On the projected pier across to Beau- port, and a tide-dock, in the St. Charles ; recommending the under- taking, as one of great importance :— (in evidence, the expense is various- ly estimated by different persons from£80,000— tOi§300,000.)— On the petition for a new market in St. Roch's suburbs, Quebec j that a new naarket is indispensible.— On the petition of the Surveyor General, for an aid towards his topographical map, &c. that it is expedient to encourage him by taking a certain number of copies.— On the incorporatioa of the Quebec Friendly Society ; favourably. Mr. CuviLLiER from the Committee on Public accounts, presented their first Report ; as follows : — First Report of the special Committee to whom were referred the Pub- lic Accounts for the year 1827 ; His Excellency's message of the 17th nit. accompanied by various documents requested by the address of the House of the 5th ult ; and also His Excellency's message of the 34th ult. relating to the hon. John Caldwell, late Receiver General, and the papers accompanying the said message. Your Committee report, that they have bestowed on the said message of the 24th December last their most serious consideration, as well as to the documents accompanying the same, consisting of an extract from a letter of the hon. John Caldwell, dated the 23d October, 1825, addressed to His Excellency the then Governor in Chief, together with a schedule of property proposed to be surrendered by him ; a letter from the same to His Excellency the Administrator of the Government, dated the 2d December, 1828, and the Report of the Attorney General on the state of the proceedings in Mr. Caldwell's case, dated the 3d December, 1828. By referring to the report of a Committee of the House on a reference of the 1st December, 1823, of the Governor's message relating to the defalcation in the Receiver General's chest, it appears by the evidence thereunto annexed, that the said defalcation was known to the Governor in Chief in March or April of that year, and it became public^ known by the appointmcL^, in August following, of two gentlemen to act in his office. This defalcation according to the account rendered by the said Receiver General, dated 17th November, 1823, amountqt^ on the IQth Au- gust, 1823, 10^^96,117 13 1-4sterling, besides ^119,332 15 lil^2 of advances, for which no warrant had been issued ; the amount of cash nvowedly deficient was J^Sr, 117 13 1-4 sterling being equal to one year's npt revenue of the Province. Of this money nothing appears to have been recovered at the end of five years, saving the £4,000 mentioned in the present message, while the revenues of estates, the possession of )ishich ha? been retained by Mr. Caldwell, even at the rajt^ of the lata payments, amounted to ^10,000. The state of things has left your resented their Late Receivcr-Genernl. § ig^ Committee under the most painful imr)ression in rp ^V a quietus I li hM < It. •1 i ml HI fil ~»..u».^ >u«.j, III iciauon 10 tne said tl^fii natinn . „r..i i . — ^^w of His Excellency of the 31st Jaruar^lsV? ncl'osint «''' '^' "^'"''^^ letter recently transmitted to him by H^^s mSJ^^^^^ for the Colonics dated Treasury Cham'bers a^rOc^ 1826'?"^*'^ ^'^*^ IS stated, that my Lords can not admit that ^h^^ovince ot" Low^'^r'" '* has any legal or equitable claim upon the Gove^^^^^ Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to make IroZh^ Z^ the United 1 190 Local Appropriations. Under this refusal on the part of the Lords of His Mjuesty's Trwiury to consider His M^esty's Government in England as responsible for the acts of their officers in the Colony, over whom they had exercised an ex- clusive controul, your Committee could have hoped that their Lordships would have recommended that the controul in this and in all the cases respecting the public accountants in the Colony should be left to the Legislative authority of the Colony, v^ho, by the aforementioned decision, are to bear the losses of mismanagement, if any. .T°."'.9°'"'"'"^® *^'"'' themselves bound to remark, that under the said decision of the Lords of His Majesty's Treasury, the situation of the ppople of this Colony can in no way be compared with the situation of His Majesty s subjects in England. When receivers or other public ac countants there become defaulters, if there is any ultimate public loss then It falls o" that public under whose authority these receivers and ac- countants were regulated and controuled ; but in this Coloney, when such loss occurs it would fall on those from whom all share in regulatinff and controuling these receivers and accountants is withheld, under the paramount authority and power of the mother country. Notwithstanding the difficulties and losses to which this Province has been exposed in the present instance, and those which may hereafter occur your Committee are of opinion, that the House ought not to interfere in the renewed transactions between the authority of the Lords of His Ma- jesty's Treasury, and the late Receiver General, but that it would be expedient to make a solemn appeal to the Justice of His Majesty and Parliament, for the recovery of the monies deficient, and praying that in all time to come the cantroul over the receipts, payments and expenditures of all monies arising in this Province, be in the Legislature of the Pro- vince, and that all British statutes and instructions to the contrary be repealed or rescinded. ' Mr. Lep, from the Committee, presented a statement of monies appro- propriated by the Legislature for roads and other local objects, from 1814 to 1827, amounting in the whole to jg455,320 10 3. Mr. Neilson moved, for a statement of all applications made during this session for grants of money— the probable amount of the money that would be required for the same-the amounts recommended by special Committees--and the amountp voted either in Committee of the whole House, by bill, or by address— and that the same be entered in a book for the information of the members. His object was that we might have a clear view of what we had done before going too far— particularly as we do not yet know the state of the public chest. AH these matters, indeed, appeared on the journals, but it was inconvenient and productUe of delay, for msmberi to revert to them on all pccasions. Noting moneg by ^ddreis, igy only reported plrl"l|". '^ C.a,n.,ttee. who h«l „ol ,.. reported, or Ud continued record kept in U of .fl molj f„^- "iH''' '""" P''«' ""« • .o;«i-.o,h...,e,/d.;;L,°d„^rru Srd s;\T.T"''"'',n^ tare it before o.. The in'otion wa, agreed to? "°' " "'«'" Coond WMreqnidle. If this w» neceMarr ir°orther.„rtk.5. .i* meaiore, lie .lioald not refueo to let it be d.ne-but he ™»M^ 5 " "! Sm:« .Tlrr-"'™' ?•""■'"•• ''•' ««• Hit'e'SlI .r^oj^ V ""^ ""^y ^«'« "®' accustomed to, in cases when ♦h»J J?^-rr^^arsiX:.%ix££F£i= delay would wholly de8t«,y the object and aS of hTaonHn ' h'* had searched thn>ugh the jJornals of the House from 18ir?nT h^V. ^ no precedent of the Hou»i having, when noting ZeJ by IddrestlooUei for the concurrence of the I^gislatife Council The fi«?r„.«'*J'^f corred was that of an address to' the Governor to Id 'aDC^isS^tt ^ expenses of sending agents to England, to which at fi«t a faTotmS^an.i* was returned, and although it was subsequently, fro": thTturn affafr, r, J^ taken, not carried into effect, it shewed the opiSn ofVe Hnf^^ Ik that no consent wa, required frem the I^gislatfvrcLcil The n« »^ for an advance of £5000, to provide a service of p^ e tV the Governo/ Sir George Provost— to which it was replied that H P /J,i! wovemor, sucha if, .uhoutHeM, consent ;tn'no'l"c;rfe;:^^^^ a pension of £300 to the Widow Panet; and another for £l65 oJ B Bedard, for surveys. All these, and other precedents shefed wh»T' ♦?: ophiion, of the House had been on this »ub^"tlthe co^^^^^^^^^^^ Legislative Council was never thought of. He would furtherinVtanVl^! Lr T%V±"«'y in point-it las that of an adXlrig unvote I MUj of £1000 ayear to the Speaker of this House-which the Govern- ment acceded to, accompanied by the suggestion that the House shou°d also vote a salary of £1000 to the Speaker of the Legislative Council i^hich was also done. Now, if ever there was a case tTat reauired thi concurrence of the Council, it wa, tbis-and yet it was io th^urbt nec^^^^ ^V ?1 f"^^ "^* "** P"""**'* '«a«<»° ^by, in tbe present circumstMce J we should deviate from the cppstant practice. !"«»«"* "rpuiostances, 'm .' ^3 191^ Voting money hy Address. Mr. Neilbow coQceiTed that the analogy between England and this ProTinee did not, in this respect, exist to the degree that was supposed. It had for a long time been thoroughly understood and acted on, that the House of Commons had the sole controul over the whole revenue of the kingdom— there was no dispute — no contest whatsover— the principle had been firmly and permanently settled— founded on the experience of all former times— whatever the House of Commons voted was instantly con- sidered as the act of the whole Legislature. Here it was widely different— we had been, and still might be, in constant collision with the other branches, as to what revenue was under our controul, and what not— and we could not take it for granted that no opposition would be made to what we voted away— and therefore, if we wished success to such a measure, we should proceed regularly, so that at least no opposition might be made on the score of informality. The precedents cited by the hon. gentleman would not all perhaps shew so much in favour of his proposition as he supposed. That first mentioned, for ^5000, was for the expenses of the projected impeachment of the Chief Justice- and here it was evi- dent no application for concurrence could be made to the Legislative Council, of which the Chief Justice was the Speaker. This was a case, therefore, that stood by itself, and could not be compared with others The next was also nugatqry— it was for a service of plate to Sir George Provost, which he never had. As to that of the pension to the Widow Panet, that was in consequence of a recommendation from the Governor, which was given because no pension could be granted in the Province without the consent of the Assembly. With regard to the instance of the •alary voted to the Speaker by address, and the subsequent grant of the same to the Speaker of the Council, it had something mysterious in it. There was an understanding on the subject that both Speakers should be provided for— (Calls from several quarters, prove this! shew it!)— He would go on, however, to giye the hon. gentleman his help, by citimr Another instance, which he thought far more in point. It was in 1818 ,when an address was made, to provide for the expenses of the Governor i and although the Legislative Council had afterwards concurred in it it was not till after they had resisted, and protested, and made a great deal of noise about it. Nevertheless, the principle was here, as well as in ^ngland, that no money could be granted without the consent of the three ibranches— but in England, the supreme power of the House of Commons over the whole receipt and expenditure is so well known and understood, that the Lords never interfered in those matters between the Commons and ;(he Crown. Here, as before said, it was different— and he should hesitate a good deal before granting money by an address, without the concurrence of the Upper House. Mr. Lee said, it was generally known and conceded, that the House of Commons in England had a right, by their votes, to do what they liked with the public money— and no sooner was it known to whom or to what :Iand and this was supposed, ed on, that the rerenoe of the B priociple had perience of all instantly con- ely different- nth the other i what not — ltd be made to zess to such a •position might 1 by the hon. i>is propositioa ' the expenses lere it was evi- lie Legislative tis was a case, td with others, to Sir George the Widow the Governor, 1 the Province nstanceofthe t grant of the 'sterious in it. ers should be licwit!)— He ;lp, by citing t was in 1818 he Governor ) irred in it, it e a great deal as well as in It of the three i of Commons d understood, Commons and ^ould hesitate } concurrence the House of lat they liked >m or to what Voiing money hy Address. 193 of Ihe public money, their wDSoriSi™ ??" i''''"* "" ""'wl to understand the privileges a^nd interests o^^^T '" ^"«'*A^ "«••* Canada better than?heyd*o themse Iv slfor the''%SrTTlh^ ^^^^^ Assembly.^ ^^^^^:.^^:n^^^ of log the superintendence and controul over the who?f JZ ^^ «'a"n- expenditure-itis asserted, that we can not Ll °V^ '^^^'P*" •««> without the consent of theT^blaUveCouS^^^^^ ""^" "^'"^^ .h^':^'!u''t°^' H"* ?*^^ ^^^ "«ny instances he had referred to n«# * Gove nl„**,'^""'t ^^^ ^"^^ '^l^^y' successful when they aSdre/sed h" Government to apply the public money according to their votes h„/* shew the House felt, at all times, that they had the power .'n them,-? ^ and were not necessarily obliged to consult the olh^er branch hJ^,!? cited fourteen precedents proving that the House never once LbSa 1? they might apply for money to the Governor ' when it wa^L^*??^.*'!*' out the consent of the LeUtive CouncT Y^t" lUefor?«icf ^n^l"'^ run he. change of losing the measure, he would consent to se^dacomt*'' nication to the Counc — but it would be airain«t h{.„-ii jI^. """■ conviction-it would only be an eTpedle"? tonTetote'^^/ot.t?'-^^ presented Itself, whilst he would continue to maintTta the ri^htofl'* House to do so, without the Council meddling in the matten * ^^'^ Mr. VioER. in searching for precedents, had found one in the Wn... # Commons of England, by which a lar«e sum of moner^ieoSl? ***' toted, n 1787, for the Prince of Wales, (his prS mJw???* ''f dress ; in which, on the same day, 28th Marthro«n«„73?i.^^J, ^^ "^ Lords was entered on the journlfs through fid^^^^^^^^^ Mr. Lee said that was a case quite analogous to the present onA a s"o7tT/r ^'^'.K^^r."^ ^^^ '^"* simultaneousiyti^both nZesi ,t was here-they had both acted slmultaneously-and the reS^ SStorrr ^''""'I*''"' constitutional acknowledgment oflh/ wler^ht of the Commons to grant money—it did not appear thai. #i»! eooseirt had been giv^a in conseq^nce of any application ?S?o„cSr. ' Thq r^Bolutiop was then passed: »iz :-^Tha4 an aJdrMs «v ^a u I'll I V ! The House in Committee on the petition of the Ladies of the Hotel Dieu in Quebec. Mr. Valueres observed that though it appeared that £600 would be required in aid of this institution, the immediate advance would only be £200, and he should move accordingly, that that sum be granted. The Hotel Dieu had much additional expense entailed on it from the increased population and increased commerce of the country ; fifty more beds bad been supplied, and to support this additional expense it was necessary that some of the public money should be disbursed. Mr. Lee thought there ought to be an account rendered. He did not deny the utility of the institution or the meritorious conduct of the ladies of the community, but he wished an accountability to be established, that we might know how our money was expended, and a general account ought to be rendered of the funds and expenditure. Mr. Vallieres was ready to admit that though this was an establish- ment which had its origin from private persons, it might be considered as a public institution. Under the French Government, the Intendants were tested with the power of enquiring into the administration of their finances— but no accounts had been rendered since the conquest, and he Hotel Dleu. im to oar comliluentsif we «.. ..r^ «"'.""'^nor ihoDld w.dojo.lI„ pecuniary matters, were. Jnder the oirl ir«nok «'^-o»»n"Dllity for tendant and the Council directed and confrr^i ^r*''""^"** »»>« In- cerns. Now there is nott; p'ln t body to do tha^ "^T^h"'"^ 'T more required since their revenuesZd from thl nh.. ; .^'"* ^'^ *•*« greatly increased ; but if theirrevenul' ad i re sed"^"hadT^^^^^ ses-and this was our fault, because we?HHpH In !k1* i. 1 v^''5*P®°' more charitable labour-but if we addtZil^' '''"'I"*'*" '**'°"» lhesee.penses,weha,earigh*tl7oentLi:e%?::hoTt^^^^^^^^^ co^i;[;fo"G^^rJnt"^^^^^^^^ of submitting their ac Mr. ViGER, bore testimony to the fruMlitv. the merlta «nJ • j . of the communities of religious ladies, fnd t^o\he cTrcumta.! S^^^^^^ expenditure going beyond their ordinary rerenue Up^a^s of ^m patients were taken care of by the Sceur Crises at Mintreir and mf „^ the suterswn, obliged to work as ^empstresses ^ndo^hLi^XoJ^l m lis!?""' I f.i I 1*3 1 I'll if ^11) lul 196 Lands in free and common toccagc. to belp to lupport the hoaie^xpenwi. With the most moderate means they maintained a large eitabliihment, by ecooomy, constant labour, and unlimited zeal. Mr. Valliereb admitted that a» public institutions they ought to be submitted to some kind of accountability— but how, was the question ? If they come to us annually for assistance, it seemed indispensable to enquire as to the pGopert^ and resources they possessed, and their annual expenditure, in order to judge of the propriety of our grants. Their ac- countability to the King of France, through his Intendants, had been done awajr with— what to substitute he could not yet tell— and it might be a subject of Tery serious consideration. Such institutions had beeji called, and were, administrateurs det fonda despauvrea; yet, in that capa- city, they can not be prosecuted for malrersation— for the poor are not incorporated— they can not sue or be sued. Under the French Gotern- roent there was an instance, howerer, of the sisters being prosecuted, and found guilty of great dilapidation in the property they administered. He certainly was disposed to accede to a plan for procuring an accountability; but how to do 80 with delicacy and propriety he did not at present see. Mr. Neilson scouted all ideas of mismanagement or malversation amongst those religious ladies— their property was much better adminis- tered than ours— they expended their income in the way their duty required, without talking so much about it. If they come to us for aid, it was because we first went to them, and saddled them with duties and expenses which did not originally belong to them— we surcharged them and put additional burthens on them, and then want to find some fault with them for what they have done, and to pry into their private concerns, which were better conducted than ours. The Committee rose, reported progress, and had leave to sit again. The House in Committee on the bill from the Council for renderin/r valid conveyances of lands in free and common soccage. Mr. L. Lagoeux hoped that this bill would be referred to a Special Committee, and that means might be found for basing an address to the Imperial Parliament, to request the entire andtoUl repeal of the Tenures- act, which had given so much umbrage. Mr. VioEB rose and said that the q-iestion here was whether we had or had not, the right to legislative on the cases premised by the bill. It could not, he thought, be said we had no right. The provisions of the Constitutional act of 1791 gave us the right. It was thereby declared that lands mi^ht be granted in free and common soccage, both in Upper and Lower Canada j but, and specially with respct to I^wer Canada, it Lands in free and common soccagi, I9i7 left to the Legislature of this Province the right to enact laws as (o all coowqucnces emanating from grant, of lands In free and common soccaae • hVrenure nnh V T^' *»>i„k proper, provided they did not trrc^o.; tllZT 5' *'' *"* '5'*"*'''- ^* '•^^ »'"" »*'d that the granting of and m free and common soccage was quite contrary to feudal tSnures !od he laws of France. No such thing-lands granted \n franc a/e« faflodral these were specially recognised by the coutume de Normandie, by the ?aw, of Normandy, and from Normandy they became part of the Eiffllish »* and engrafted on it. Thi, French law li franc aL i, ij fact th'e lent' the ground, the same, as the tenure in free and common soccage. The difference is that jt ess frequently and Indeed seldom occurs in French proceedings whilst it has been one that has been generally introduced aS adopted ,„ hnghsh practice. It was a question of great importance, which as It involved the future destiny of the landed interest of the country re quired the most mdture deliberation-it was not to be argued liffhtkLo; with reference to one side only. He would be inclined to declare th![ the Provincial Legislature had full power to legislate in this matter Th« general power given them by the Constitutional act, was in this particular case, specially confirmed and extended by the 43d clause If the Com mittee be convinced of the truth of this, they will see that thev have »hl right lo legislate on this subject-they will see that the Cauada-tenurea act IS nothing but a declaratory act. founded on the Constitutional act and hat, authorised by the Constitutional act, they have the power essenUallv to make laws, consonant with the nature of the tenure in free and com mon soccage, for the lands held under it -to confirm, to alter, to annul' No act merely declaratory can stand in the way of this. To suoDosa otherwise, would be to introduce a chaos, and the rights of widows and orphans, grantors ana grantees, lessors and lessees, purchasers and selUrQ might be all confounded, by a distant legislature, enacting laws mo2 superficially and without any knowledge of the premises, if, as had be^n wisely reserved by the Constitutional act, we had not the right of enacting what might be deemed expedient as to the consequences of such tenure in free and common soccage. Mr. BonoiA said there were various Ways of considering the subject— and it was hardly possible to know which to adopt as a guide. The act before us and the tenures act, were built on the Constitutional act which left the choice to settlers, whetherto have lands under the sei'gnorial tenure or in free and common soccage ; and considering the vast extent of unsettled lands compared with those which were held as seigniories it was natural that a great nation, having adopted in their own country the tenure of free and common soccage, should wish to make it general in its dependencies.— It was very clear that from the continuance of this feelinc •row the Canada tenures act, i^nd be did not see but that it wag perfectly :i| 1 J-l li m\ ■| w if h , 198 Lands in free and common socctige. competent for the Iiaperfal Parlinment to pdss in act giving the cho tion whether we had a right to name a special Committee to consider of it. Betides what would he the use of it? — let them report as they lilie— or bring in the sketch of the iineat bill in the world — if it be one which we have no ri^ht to pass — if it be one contrary to an act of the Imperial Par- liament, it is all labow in vain. The report of the Canada Committee recommends the declaratory enactment of the tenures act to be retained, it is therefore premature to discuss this question, for, though we have the report of the Committee, wn do not know what the ulterior proceedings of the House of Commons may be. He felt surprised too that the Legis* latiTe Council, a body composed chiefly of His Majesty's servants det grandt personnageSf should have proposed a bill which interfered with, and engrafted further provisions upon, an act of the Imperial Parliaments 'i'he hon. gentleman alluded to the coutume de Paris, to the coutume of Normandy — the Parliament of Tours — the representations made by the British inhabitants of Canada, through Mr. Lymburner, previous to the Constitutional act — the proceedings on the proposed union of the two Provinces, Sfc, and concluded, that he did not know but it would be best to request the Legislative Council to join in address, to the King, Lords, and Commons of Great Britain, to let us alone, and let us legislate for ourselves. Mr. ViGER taking up that part which related to the feelings entertained in the House of Commons, both now and at former periods, as to Canada, said, we owed a debt of gratitude to that body, for that both early and late, then and now, when not imposed upon by misrepresentations, they were and had been ready to do us justice. It did great honour to the House of Commons, in the early part of our political history, that they did not listen to the insidious and false representations made by interested persons at their bar. The speech and evidence of Mr. Lymburner at theif bar, alluded to by the hon. gentleman, was an instance. If for any thing we owed them gratitude it was for clearly judging on those occasions between the interested representations of a few European settlers, and the wants and wishes of the people. The same scene had been acted over again. It was and remains the principle of the House of Commons, to give and preserve to the Canadians their laws, their religion, their manners^ their language. They felt that in the same proportion as they themselves cherished those blessings, so did others — and the attempts that have been made to tear from us by piecemeal, those rights which had been gene- rously and amply given to us engros, were not to be ascribed to the House of Commons, nor to the Ministry, nor to the Crown, nor to the British people, but to those intriguers and deceivers who, dwelling in the midst of tfes, fasve shewn themsdved our worst eoetnieB. This appesu toiiea K the choic« •f it. Now this Ire had done— i it wasaquea- ) consider of it. tlipy lilie— or one which we Imperial Par- kda Committee to l>e retained, h we have the or proceeding! that the Legis- I lerrants des ered with, and il Parliaments :he coutume of made by the irevious to the ion of the two would be bent King, Lords, et us legislate gs entertained as to Canada, loth early and ntations, they i)onour to the »ry, that they ! by interested turner at thelf for any thing lose occasions settlers, and sen acted over nmons, to gire :heir manners^ ey themselves hat have been d been gene- 1 to the House the BriHsh n the midst of peaa» toiiea Landt in frtt and common aoccuge, |9f th...«. I. „,.„. It tad b".^^'5f "?"?""»«* "«"-«i w imtrt would Mint tnm. ll«i . .?*^' . '"• '""""""lone and ■lost vahiable promise, had bien erlClr .!. ?^" '""'■8«» *»•• undertease. m Je, and all was «n*r.ll! i * ««•«» ^ansfers, lease, and of the French law. nJw ^yJZVI^I " T ""''"« **» *''« fora.litlei English law. t^^ve ^ Vl'Ste . pr^-rT^^^^^^^ live. The F.^nch always ".derTooi ?o make'Jlws'LT • ''''. '? ^'*'''- never allowed the.n a voice-andioeful were ?h7^^^^^ »•"* Britain has followed a different s^«TemanH?f It- consequences. Great of complaint. It was 4u7« rrS,"^ o' t S^ot^ ^ bntto^m-srepresentation aad delo.ion, and locJT^^I^.e-ent on toThe i;" it orre'af po^frty ^"wtTJlthT i" T T.'"^' -'»«- prodpce »uch!vilconse'qaeS a^lny pTrson,^^^^^^^^^^^ S^k' ^-"^ a country of great extent and iaiue wlFXh^A "PP"'''^'"'*'^- inhere was in that reVct%nd waslw p peJing^i^^^^^^^^^ tirely different from the precedingf ItVa, l^ntsbna ^ Th^»°/ '"'''' """ was first a French territory, and subiecred a^^lfo JL i '^"l """"^'^ of France. It afterwards^^ecame S^a"IS^^ thTch^tr^^^^^^^ of those laws. Then again French whin „«».?:-i u *'"' ^**°'o place; and when finally^l beS Vt Jf thT^lri^^^^^^^^ was In utter confusioni-but this ha. been wisely rero"edtf-''' '" occupiers, introducing at once an entire set or„ew law^-thelr Ll',"*"^ -founded on those of England. After the conauest ^fT*." ^°^" '*^" evident, from the history l( those times, that Sand d?d nt'I T" herself «o much about the Canadian popuIatU, a! about fh. not employ ment of English settlers, and the renZng it a'n EngScolonrXf: the English laws were alone in force here till 1774 when Th^p" .'/ 'J Government at home took a new turn in conseluence'of th^^^'^! J " °' in the American Colonies. The Canadians however LS «rn*"^"'''*' tocomplain-and finally, the Conihu ionil Actl^* 1791 ettl'.?'^." By that Act, however, the «ach.nged wishes of EnUnd^'4^"sit"^^ I 4 i.ii'. k! jiH ^M mm I ft 1 200 Lands in free and common soccage. for the n^bt was reserved of gr9Dif the British nauiaiis theii- fTerent privi- ay? It says- Mijoyment ok ire would be s in the Pro* lef and seig' rmixed witb^ vished to be }ersay9, and so doing we I part; The ; we have a an act of the whose effect e Crov, 3 for Every such Lands in free and common soccage fOl Mr. YiGCR said the hon. member for the Lower Town had, he believed, much deceived biriiielf on some points. The example of Looisiann was not quite so apt an he represented. That country had been very much neglected by France, neither had Spain under her recent circumstances, been able to pay any attention to it—no wonder it ran into confusion j it was inhabited by several mixed races ef men, of whom the Americans formed one of the least numerous, but the Americans had not acted so injudiciously as the hon. member said, they had wisely done, in giving; Louisiana an entire new system of laws of their own. After Louisiana had become part of the States, the most eminent lawyers and magistrates to be found there, whether of French, Spanish or American extraction, were consulted. Much of the French law was retained, and incorporated with the new system, so as to make a whole. He had also deceived himsel.'as to the tenures act. That was not an enacting law, it was only declaratory, and was founded on the Constitutional Act. He likewise egregioasly deceived himself as to its ever having been the policy or plan of England to divide the inhabitants of Cannda into two classes. It was an unworthy supposition, and would, if true, reflect disgrace on the Councils of a great nation, caluminate them and destroy the confidence justly reposed in them. True, many attempts had been made to anglicise the Colony, to sow dissensions, and draw that line of distinction between the Canadians and the British inhabitants of the country, which was said to have been in the contemplation of the British Government. Intrigues and domestic enemies had often been at work. In 1814, every thing was done in their power to exclude the Canadians from any share in the Legislature ; and at an earlier stage of our history the exclusion of all Catholics from a share in the government or from office, was planned and actually effected. But this, and subsequent similar attempts, particularly that of the Union, were not measures of the British Government or the British people— they were what he had already described them to be, those of a little knot of deluders and intriguers, who had been perpetuated from time to time, but W'T 3d never, he trusted, succeed in their sinister purposes. But we were all one, all British subjects, never to be separated into tribes and tongues. Every where we were entitled to say with the citizens of ancient Rome, Civis Homanus Sum. We lived under a Monarch, the brightest gem in whos ? crown was, that all the subjects of his extensive empire, in all th« four qi^arters of the globe, were equal in rights, were equally under the protection of the smpire, and under the empire of the laws. Mr. Lee rose in explanation. He did not say, or mean to say, that the British Government wanted to make e distinction betw -t the people, but only such a disuction an would arise from the distinctive line they bad drawn between Seigniorial lands and those in free and common soccage. It was imposiiible he ihought to fi[ive a different interpretation than he had done in that respect to the act of 1791. With regard to the immediate question, the Introduction of English forms, might indeed occasion soma HHf IH !^1 rW 302 North Charmd and Pilots, coDfoum, u weUa» the diTereot tenares of land; bo4 thew iw§ » wn- 21 ^S 1 "' f °?P»*««d of T fo.nd l»jim«.., we could not repSJ Ihose who made laws were aiooecempetetit to unmake them. Bi.SIr'p?!"**'^'?'^,*?''"''^"'*^®^^ eouMnnmake them; •helm. SrHinTuirf?!.' "*«''* T"* •''^ <:«n8«*u*ional act, and then we should ^nVL^o^' '*'^' ' I"* f f ■* "^^ ""^ ^»^ *•««" »P«°* «o «t«« purpose, »h^h.f* ^^^" !f!"'^ '"^ ''"^'' *°'^"°^^ <» ^^^'^ *<> a final deciriontha the best way would be to move, as he did, that the Committee rise, and l7ZnL7:r' ""^ the understanding thit a special Committee shiir'be ^rZ!^ ll r'^" '."^ T'*^°" '^^ ^'"- H""- ™«"ber, had said, that we were about repealing the Canada tenures Act--no such thine this «L?.h«""?r^?° the Canada tenures Act, and tended to confirm wther han otherwise. But as by the 4 3d clause of the constitutional act the Fn frlir" '° "*^' **^' confirming, or relaHve to, the gramsof lands in free and common soccage, that power incontestably rests with the As jembly and the Legislative Council; and a principal oWectn a speda Committee ,„ his opinion would be that this bill, or any law we E ehoose to make on the subject, instead of being bottomed on th^ Se Act, should go o the fountain-head, and unequivocally declare tha^l was enacted in virtue of the power givJn by the 43d sec. of the Act of 179l! The Committee rose, reported progress, and the bill was, after a mittec, to which was also referred the bill from the Council, for makL rSmero?^R- iti^^^^^^^^^^ ^- -' — --«-' :z zfz in t^rchair.- '^"''' °" ^^^ ^°'*'* ^^"^""'^ *"^ P"°' ^'»» Mr. Proulx Mr. Latehriere, in proposing the second and third resolutions rvide previous debate of 7th Jany.^ observed that he thought sufficient Jad been said to convince the Committee of the propriety of concurng in them ^^.UsteRrtt^Sh""''^ '' '^ 'f' '^'»"*'"'^'» -'»' '^^ N-t" ia" were not luld ha,l a J'flT?' !«^'*^ °" ^" ''*°'^» '* *""* that those who Tro « ri^ ?i .u.^* sufficient stimulus to become so, by the premiums proposed in the third resolution, he thought would also be^admitted? era i»M m c«n- rself. Iflbo8« aid not repefti iad« them, for liem ; *!re Im- len we sliottid 's and eveo to d to eur ioteN lie go<-hj, and little purpose^ i decision that ttee rise, and littee shall be had said, that ch thing, this to confirm It itional act the rants of lands with the As- :t in a special aw we might in the tenures Clare that it Act of 1791. was, after a special Com- , for making and for the , Mr. Proulx utions, (vide ent had been ring in then. North chan- at those who ■be premiums Emitted. North Channel and Pilo *s, g03 ♦l,JlIri°°"'T''" ®"9"'''«*J whether the present Pilots did not consider themselves as having a right to act as such throughout the whore rver as to their knowledge of the North channel ? Of niwk ^ u ^ ^j'**'^ Trinity House, he believed about two S be f^L] wt """'''" °^ '^^ When you ask the Pilot, whether tleyTnowhrNlrthchrnl^^ T'"''!,* say they do j and they would say it would be hard to maLri' 7 ^^^ a second apprenticeshi'p to learn ^hat they have alreadriearntTr^'^^^ tTi"'ol)o''wrS' 'T TF'""''"'' *« aLnnuafe'^lIXm'^Veoo to ii 4,000, would only tend to encoura<;e Pilots to hazard o-.,!n„ ^tu a channel ..e, W„e„ .. ke O^H^,..s: fo. t>,VX'^ rtZS Mr. ViCER said there were now 140 Pilots whn haA aU ,»»,f i j^x. . regular apprenticeship of five years, and mad: "he' two vVageMrEuroo: required by law. The licences they had obtained werrtLrpron/^^^ were their estate, and it would be a degree of \n\nZZ tc. I fu^ 1^' property, and de'tenorate its value, ^;-.:re^;frcomp:«S tl fhln^jr'r ' '"^ *'''•; ^^^^^f^ thJ more so since he was info'rmed th^ pfi ? t ^\T'' "" i"'"^ °^ '''^'^ regulation of the Trinity Hoise That the Pilots should not frequent the North channel-they were Tn fl.f enjoined not to do so ori account of Its being so little known, h!. Ihl t the giving a premium would both infringe upon thrScef/hr^ * TKll"": '"' '';'°*r-'"'l°^" -'J-^ents^odi wrong "i^];^'7C ^Itf K T •? ^ '5'P'. '''?"'^ ''"'y *^°"«''^" which the besfway was o conduct her to her destined port : but if thev were nff^r^,! „ ^r channel than another, they -ght choosVtol^JipTfrun: ld"^ro^ gam a few more pounds, run the chance of losing a valuable shin a. u^ pZs' h"„rP"'''r'% It would be right, to take measures, so that te Pilots, both present and to come, should become acqnainted w th *h North channel, as well as with all the channels and pasla^es of 7h.r' as expressed in the first resolution ; but that was all fhar^ould i, juS to the Pilots, and to the public, be done. * justice Mr. FoRTiN said, although it might, on various grounds bP H«- 1 1 to have the Pilots acquainted with the North chf .nel, o'ne vea 'a?^n events was sufficient. The premium would give rise to a snPP.pr r "^^ petition that might be very injurious to the i^ter^^^^^aS;' T^ apprentices in future should acquire a knowledge of the Nor f , ^^ right. He was against giving'any premium -'There wtl^^^ ^^I of objection. Pilot, were not allja^ultless, many indeed w^rrf^rtEe 'il :■ ^^i ^1 Iv ii 1 1 :ij|' ■ 1 204 North Channel and Pilots. soberest of people, and some not the most principled ; besides, they were often out in boisterous weather, suffering great hardships, and were ten or fourteen days without meeting with a ship. In this situation and in these cases, Pilots might not be over-scrupulous, and seek at all hazards to gain the highest price, to make up for tlieir lost time. Mr. E. C. Laoueux said it happened occasionally that when Pilots brought or found ships in a situation for taking the North channel, they brought the "essels to an anchor, and when the Captains asked why they did so, it was because they did not know the channel before them. Grant- ing the premiums proposed, would be the means of inducing all Pilots to become acquainted with that channel, and the inconveniences which oc- curred here in 1827, would not recur. There were, in November of that year, seven or eight vessels in the port wanting to proceed to sea in the best way, in order to avoid the accumulating ice, full twenty branch Pilots were here, to whom both merchants and captains applied to take their ships out by the North channel, but they did not know it, and, in consequence, several disasters occurred among the ice, which would pro- bably have been avoided by taking that channel, which according to the testimony, remains free from ice for several weeks after the South channel has been filled up. Therei is a channel too between Isle aux Coudres and Guotie Island, divided into two parts, which until the evidence now brought forward, Wiis not known even to exist by any of the Pilots; but the in- habitants of those shores and islands, the peasantry and the fishermen, know those passages and channels, and are often employed to assist the licensed Pilots when they find themselves in difficulties, and indeed are well paid for it. Mr. Lateruiere said that, from the information before the House, and from his own knowledge, the House might be assured that the North channel was as good, if not better, than the South. When the Pilots find themselves in those situations which would require a knowledge they have not, they are glad when the hahiians along shore come to their assistance ; — these the have to pay, (tho' they are not so well paid as might be sup- posed,) and consequently possessing that knowledge, there would be so much saved to them. The inhabitants of the Isle aux Coudres are natural Pilots, they do not require licences, they serve as such and get paid, tho* not very liberally, as it is. There would not, however^ be any objection to make half a dozen or perhaps more of them, in whom full coutidence can be bad, licenced Pilots for that particular purpose, the first resolution says that it is necessary for all the passages to be known ; and we must try all means to do so, and Pilots for parts of the river would contribute to that end, and by degrees all would acquire the requisite knowledge. Mr. QuiuovET fiiiid, the entrance of the North Channel, it appeared^ was worse than that of the South, and there were a great number of North Channel and Pilots. S05 let, they were and were ten latioo and in at all hazards when FiIot» ihannel, they ked why they them. Grant- g all Filotn to ces which oc- ember of that to sea in the irenty branch )plied to take w it, and, in h would pro- dding to the >oath channel Coudres and now brought ; but the in« he fishermen, to assist the td indeed are Q House, and t the North he Pilots find Ige they have r assistance ; night be sup- would be so >s are natural ;et paid, tho' ,ny objection 11 coutidence -st resolution and we must Id contribute owledge. it appeared^ t number of «ddies, which rendered the navigation very troublesome. The inhabilants of the Isle aox Coudres, generally hasten on board of ships as soon as they appear off the island and do so willingly, as they are well paid. In two or three months any one of them might be made a good pilot for the North Channel. Mr. Speaker Papineau enquired how the North Channel could be de- clared a bad or dangerous one, when it appeared to be fully acknowledged that the pilots, wh' ought to know best, knew nothing about it. In his own opinion he was inclined to believe that the South Channel was the best, from the simple circumstance of the North Channel having been abandoned without any particular cause being assigned ; but we ought to know how it really was, and as was resolved, it was necessary that all the Channels should be thoroughly known. Licensing branch pilots to conduct vessels from the Isle aux Coudres to Quebec would not be an injury to the licen- ses already given ; for at present, when at the entry of the North Channel, the pilots themselves received those men on board, and put themselves under their guidance. Now if a pilot possesses a certificate from the Trinity House of his capability as a pilot for the North Channel, ho has no need of these men and can exclude them, and if not, he is only punished for not acquiring a knowledge, which he could attain in a summer-excursion in bis boat of 5 or 6 weeks, nor could he be deprived of more than the pilotage for that part of the voyage which he could not safely perfor.m. The granting licenses to pilots at Isle aux Coudres, or other proper sta- tions, would have another proper effect. How do Captains, and even the licensed pilots who may be on board their vessels, feel in the midst of storms and dangers, among rocks and breakers, in trusting to a habitant who comes off from the Isle aux Coudres, and says he knows the way ? what is to inspire them with the confidence that he will not run them on the fitst rock they come near ? But in the emergency they trust to him, 1)ut doubtingly and with fear. If this man had a licence, it would be a guarantee to them that they may confide in him, and would produce prompt and confident exertions in the crew to obey his voice, and their revived courage and hopes, and well secured confidence would often save a ship, which doubt, fear, and lothness to obey u stranger, would have lost. It will be a happy circumstance for navigation when the Admiralty charts are completed and published, so that the pilots may have them • the bearings and soundings will then become familiar to all; but in the mean time he should conceive most pilots would think five or six weeks leisure time well spent in exploring and surveying the North Channel themselves. Mr. BoissoNNAULT observed, that those of the old pilots who did not know the North Channel, though there were many that did, were not in fault, it was the fault of those before whom they passed their examination who only examined them as to such and such particularpoints. With all •fim m' if i ^06 Petition against Judge Fletcher. the personal respect he owed to the membMs «f*i.- t,:„* rr could „„..., he h.d.h. highest opioraTA^i^LtoIir/wSgr" " 7e.?io:«;?ir'"'"° ^"*°""^ ""'•"'"' "•evot..„d..g.,i4 The third nDdement the same fate, yeas 7, nays 14. ss""" ' """ "'»" ''"' ''«"y '" p"« SiiTr^Mhe' :;:;;x Mr. LATEnRiEUE said, that obliging pilots to do this xva% wh^t i,« ,im «":;if^j-he?iijr!™^^^^ other ,0 much at heart, thai however ..rong thi, wa,, he woulS Zeot to it' p/pS:jhrtej;:-rrtr^^^^^^ lUhed, tocaose 100 eopie. thereof!. b.LSed"f,„dert„ i^HK!"^' Jr-roSoW&rHrr'"'^''""™^^^^^^^^^^^^ HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, Jan. 13. and^'^oyfor.r.hr^rci'sfi™^^^^^ oi tne repealed fines and imprisonments to which he had been subierfpS ^arlToreHrbtr^^^^^^^^^^^ Provincial Conrt for le i/fetrdis^ct^f K^ct^ ^\^ ^",^^1^^/ nAt T- 7,^'"« .«"««/ the/J-nd depositaries of the ro/al auThoHty one of the chef functionaries of justice, which contains alle^-ations hat it is impossible to pass over w thout enauirv If n„i„ «„ if i .' . " „ha. i, allegeJ^ln ,hi, pe.iti.:' be"^, f and /: L b?:„".'''^b,l'';; ' °' Mr. ViGER would be Inclined to doubt the trnlh of what is stnted i„ ould" be 'the rea°mv iT '""^ '" <:o^pr.i,e„i how so XeadM *?«„ " Aiai. iiumenuue enquiry was necessary, and if found :y House, he Dwledge. nd negatived, ilots already submit to an gh the North what he did It they might some way or consent to it. rise another, be instruct- idmiralty of hall be pub- to be distri- eamen, and . 13. rson, Editor stead, com* e Fletcher, n subjected paper, and udge of the 'as, he said, hority, one i, that it is ilh part of itained, we barbarous i stated in il a picture that such id if found .! Petition against Judge Fletcher. gQT fudj/:t' ;rsitw^ryTit" ::zr •» ''- -* ^^ ^•-*- ^ juch crying injustice of which ?heho2 i/'^''?' "^« recurrence of the examination ought to be delitmran'd t^a"^^^^^^ "^^ ^^^'« ' «>«[ P^'edin^rih'e ttl'o^^ei^f.S: ttr-^"°"^S^^°" ofPar.ia.entary public officers had been siS^' ^eXtc^f h' h V^' malversation S #h^'?/' fi"f> °"*^ «t length it diKav Si ^?. heen raised on the the obloquy that was th?own on 1^^. ? ^^' ^^'"^ ""^hing but petitioned against. If these accusations >?«.' -^ ^^""'^ who were they would have constituted a S H„ '^ fT '" ^"y «ther shape subject individuals to public censure e^l.M?*.f J'^' *° whatever S If accused in this way had no mcans'of K J^ '^'^'^ '" P»*blic life, who not expect an acquittal He thS tLttv"e tf /• '•'"^^^^^«' '^"•^ <^ouW House would be assuming to do what beTnn^ «f ertain.ng this petition the would be interfering with^he law! and et "f rt th'In''' ,^*'"1"*^ °^ -^"'^ «! judicature. In a case of an accusation „^I^ * ?"f^''^« '"to a court of Council was the tribunal before whom ?hS ''•'"'^^"' *he Legislative when a petition is read in the House the farJ^' Tv '° ^' "^^e. But many persons think the Assembly bvrJi? *^K«" f""" granted,-! contents, and that as there areTom^an/C^^^^^^^ sanction '^ judge and speak of those matters, the caZ^' k ' h *^^^««'nWy> who can accusers, will have many plead^r^ but thi *^^ ^'^•'"^^'^ «nd the gentleman, that such things^ouTdX Ind ;te X^^^^ '''" ''°"- but they were before them, and whether nJhki ^^^ ''^^"'«* a judge, must be enquired into. That Hudgeran e^^^^^^ accused of such crimes, certainly aKstnnL^f"*' S°^°"y ^"'^W be garded the administration of justice horH hi ^^'^ ^'"'' ^^^^X were, as re- disgrace a Turkish Adminis radon' o?Ju1T'^'''- '"'^'' ^hich wo^W sented of abuses the most crying the most , ' ' % ^''l"''^ ^^« ^ere pre- d'sgrace, notonly the Judg^who haTco\fe^^^^^^ 'f true, which could country Where they were suffered to -Kp^^^^^^^^ such a harrowing detail of injustice withTn Tk u 1^^° ^ould listen tp bhng with indignation ? TheConder would h-^^^ trem! Colony, it could have been listened to wkh„t^ '"' '^'J" ^" English s en to such a tale of oppression without emotl^^T""'' ^"' ^*^« '^^"^d he hon. member for the Lower Town wTv h?c J.- ^ '^^'°" ^iyon by -ve., „H>ch w« .he .o.e ^u^rK^^^fKr™ 'S ll Zi m ■''II' f m •■'ii, II 208 Petition against Jiidge Fletcher. be fore-jadging the accused, and that the accuwd should always be pre- ;umt?inny a grant of stated, that d of security um of jgSOO nd marguil- IS passed and he Saguenay Bill for securing cosls to Plaint ijfs. g|3 tolfgaetee.^"'"''*^* '" ' ''" '"' » turnpilce-road from Motitreal t. miUe"ert"th°/^'-,fi- ':'«"T '°^ *^°P'" «' '^' report of the Com- To be pH,.;:i.'^ quahfication of juries in criminal cases were ordered 8Ded"ar r'*" uf' '""'^'^ °" *" "• ^" *° communicate the report of tho Sell I'rfn P°" *'•' '""^^r' "'*''« '**« ««<^«''" Gen^Lr^ln v^aiuwell, and U. E.'s message of the 24th Deer. *e.?;t.rt^Tl:vZ:'"''- "'" '"""""« •=-""" p'"'""f» ^''H'h Mr. Lee said, it ..as esgenlial to know exactly what was mnnn* hu {rcf^d^""""- K^^ 'f «"PP--'/''»^ «» cases of pJevTou rrt"r thJ all;;t:!iiuTi 'co'srh'^rn' ^o judgmeht los^s his costs-fhfs i's Zt will hi Jhl7 »f ** *" ^''^"*' '^'^«'«'J to him, the consequence and whatever little personal property remained, would be^iiptlwu;^ a preferent claim for lav^ expenses. » " uc awepi away by Mr. Valueres looked Upon this measure as one of ereat utilJtv^nn^ KfJ tVo".: "? «t *f' '-""^ ""•='• *=""«d f-- This faw only ?eda?e, that those costs which are necessary to obtain the first judgment shaU hi considered as /raix de justice. This was on the principli thaThe who L.f proceeds to judgment does the business of all-Ls oTd to I 'the cred Z\ The preference of law.costs over other claims\as drawn frorthe old French law-but there, when a debt was acknowledged unlTscd^e authenhque, no judgment was required, and the costs were a prYviS claim before it came to the distribution of the effects of The debfo But il\ • ^ a" 'l7f *^^t' "** d'«t'«bution can be made till after udg,nen IS obta.ned~.t ollows, therefore, since the necessary costs are privileged }lir "i!" ''T' -^^ '°'*'°^ judgment, which, though not necessfrr >n France h ./e by statute, become necessary here, should if we foC chat doctrine, be privileged also. Is it not unjust that an anterior S^ tor who has done nothing, and waited till some one else ha sued ou judgment, should receive all the benefit of those proceedings! to whLh he was no party-whilst the last creditor, who has had all he trouble and expense, must pocket his loss ? He meant such cases n wh ch ?ir instance, a mortgage for ^1000 exists on land, which lies dormant A ,. i I'm i i i.fii ff in ^14 Securing co^.ts to Plaintiff's. subsequrnt creditor, before whom there may be perhaps twenty otbei mortgages, knowint; nothing of f^his, proceeds to judgment, and the sale is effected — tbe lantl produces only the ^1000 for which it hatl been oriffinaily mortgaged — then comes the first mortgage-creditor, takes the j^iOOO, ar^ 1 lehves not a penny to cover the costs disbursed by the person through whose active means he finally got his money. If in the ^e he had Slated, the ^1000, mortgage creditor had proceeded tojudgn at, he would have had to pay the costs — but by availing of the dili^ '.uco of another, he gets his principal, and leaves the costs to be paid, by the second, third, or twentieth creditor, who has deemed it necessary to proceed. An appeal had been made on a former occasion against ^his bill, in favour of the unfortunate debtor, who having lost his whole property, would still be liable to pay heavy costs afterwards — but it was not the debtor who lost, but the creditor — the debtor was and would be a gainer, as long as he could act with the bad faith which the present system gave him the opportunity of doing. He got the money of his credUors— paid the first, left the others unpaid, — and finally saddled the costs on the lawyer who had advanced the amuunt. Personal property is liable to many preferent claims — why not real property in a case like this? This bill has been attempted to be identified with the interest of lawyer&t —few would be affected by it — lawyers generally prefer to have their clients as creditors than to trust to what they may get from the distribu- tion of the effects of the debtors they sue. But it seemed as if the word lawyer was a bye-word, a word of reproach — as i, lawyer he would say it was not the interest of the profes«ion he had studied in introducing this bill, but that of real justice to creditors, who when they discover that they are f he last, and have transacted at thtir own expense the business of others, find themselves the losers in every way, without hope of redress, but from such a bill. He would compare then; to those who, in a storm at sea, throw their goods, their riches, their money, overboard, to save the gene- ral property from destruction, and who have therefore in justice, as well as by mercantile usage, a claim to be idemnified by those who have bene- fitted by their loss. Mr. ViGEit was very sorry the hon. gentleman who had just sat down had treated the matter in the manner of a special pleader, arguing ir: favour of his clients, who were evidently those creditors he represented as suffering hardship and expense for the good of all, and their lawyers. The justice recommended was one of a limited and private nature — it related only to the ioconveniencies which might be suffered by some individuals, but it seemed to have been lost sight of, what was due to other creditors, to debtors, and to the good of the public. This bill would be equiva- lent to a monopoly-bill and would force them out of their natural course. All countries in which laws were made in favour of one class of men, with- out considering the joint interests of allj were impoverished. Here you want to give extraordinary privileges to men who are better able to lose a s&, but from ist sat down Securing costs to Plaintiff's. 215 the creditor ii situated. A seigneur or a m^r A, » * '** "' "*'°'°* ^'>'^ gifes creditor makes advances ?o.;;;'^^o„^f*°^^^^ T' r*"^"^"* .n their way with the assistance thus XS titP*""'"' ^^° P^P" ditorfor^lO or ^13. perhaos 8.L #h!^\ ° comes a small cre- faith and knowledge tLrheSll at all ev"f ;'"""*' ^f^*°^' "P"" *»•• ceeds to judgmeotfaod deDrivI fhp „„* ^'"*' ^!. ""'^ of his costs, pro- or^iOOO, although the;;T^ #l00orif600 themselres by mortgage, get oat oftLlr J kJ *J\P'-««a"«on of securing mainder, by ruin ng f h'e i^an^ uLS k *'.*' V^^ "?«•""« ^^ th« 'e! establish, every maS musrhasien to sua aini^^*' ^t'^'' *''''' ^"» ^'^ a«lf> if I don^^othersS as they a^^^^^^^ *?'^" ''••°» «»yin« to hio.- force, as bad been well obTeried th? ' «/ ''^"'.*'°^*«5 and this would much'ioclined to res^ec the honest v IT •"^"'««"*/'editor, ever so debtor, to become a Lrd!hea;ted''pStiff ^^'^^ comparative advantages of the SJnf * . '^°"''* illustrate the towards debtor,," wfth t J t o rfgot s ^2?^°//'"'*^' """^ P'*'«"*=« own knowledge in the district of mL^i-' ^'^ **^° *'^'^» within his >.hich he would bear wUn"« Ihe iahr^L'^^ "^^ '^°'"'*''^ P^'^^esof industrious and pruLr One JaJh ^"^'^*:^««"«''*"y honest, ^6000-which h^d"au"be;n'J•n^ tctnTrytopir'anI* VlT'^ ^' cutors wisely left in their hands on interest takin'll^r ''"''' ^^^ "^- could make from time to time, and inTfew yean the wlffi™""*' ""-i^'^ -the people prospered, and 'the heirs erpertheblS ""W^^^ been a law of this kind in eiistence then all » °^"****\. Had there have broke up all. On the other hand 'n/i '""^" creditors would Chambly proceeded at once agahsrsoorVofhi^^^^^^^ * "'erc^antof the distress of the tin,es thc-yCe not able ?opLh'-"^AT.^^^^^ •'^°"^' were sold at little more than, if so much as Ip Lk r^u'^" *''*"' '^"''s people were ruined, the merchant not paid and fhe V„ "I '*''?^' *^« When the interests of society in general are ionrrl ? T^'^ "'J"«**- at some risk of individual detr mfnt ^r lorjh' kT^ ' °"«''* "^ "°^ «^en give full encouragement for he capita^^^^^^^^^ t"''^'^"' ''"' ''"' *"^'"^' themselves, to -nfide^he^t Xtnl* ^dX ?nd\Tuf -^ ^'^"^^ both the revenue and the capital of the coun Jr? Fnr .k- "''^*'® should leave it fully in the piwer of those whn i:./*'n a PI'P'''^ *° gent to their debtors to be so, and o£r Lrn^o temnt"ar '^*^^f '"''"'- money out of those hands, by ThiT it „a^ ?h r^ I T' *° ^^''^ *''«'r The hon. member says the lawyers »! Z k ^"^ u^^^ P"'''^^ «t°«k. bill-certainly not la/^Is liieYim ^ n prtti'^e^aVdr't?' •''{ ^'''J undoubted honour, integrity, and talent adaDted « VI '" P""^'P'e> of highest rank in his professionUut Twere not 'n T ^''J'^^ *° ^^^ ofputting ^Oor % in their^rt::\rd\1l7g^rer?„%r^^^^^^^^ I' I 216 Securing costs to Plaintiffs, would be an insuperable temptation — there were many members of the' profession not very nice as to how they got their money. He could un- fold a picture of iniquity that would not meet the belief perhaps of a man like the hon. member, whose upright and honourable mind would reject it a» improbable. But he begged him to cousider all lawyers were not like himself. — A farmer comes to a lawyer to enter a suit for him. He might otherwise perhaps hesitate, and require a deposit of money, but he would now have the double security for his costs, of his client and of the future and ever during liability of the debtor — and avarice — the auri sucra fames would spur him on. Let the hon. member listen to the dictates of his own heart, and picture to himself what a scourge this bill would be to the in- habitants of both town and country — the enormity of the costs— an addi- tional temptation to lawyers in a small way — the compulsion every credi- tor would feel to proceed at law as soon as any debt was due^ for fear of being forestalled — the distress of that man, who after seeing his land sold, and all his means taken from him, but perhaps the value of ^0 or ^30, finds that too swept away by the operation of this bill. Let all this be taken into consideration, and it would appear that this bill was neither required by justice, by right, by humanity, nor by policy. Again, it was a maxim of law that costs followed the principal debt, and like interest upon capital advanced, was only an accessory that shared the same fate of the principal — why change this maxim — change the nature of costs, and from being merely accessory constitute them into a principal ? That the measure is not adapted to promote the public good would best appear from the circumstance, that certainly nineteen out of twenty debtors who were left in possession of their property and in the exercise of their industry,' prospered and ultimately paid ; and that scarcely one creditor out of twenty who did otherwise got paid at all. It should likewise be observed with respect to mortgages, that landed property by no means retained its fixed value, and that the outcries against those who had serveral mortgages on their estates were not always founded. What was worth a large sum atone time, and would bear heavy mortgages, was of a very small compa- rative value at another. In 1812 and in 1814, real property in the di- strict of Montreal was at a high rate, far beyond what it ought naturally to be — but in five years it had deteriorated no less than three fourths. Creditors were there disappointed, and debtors ruined by forced sales; and the evils arising from this would be augmented by this bill. Mr. Ogden thought that an individual prosecuting to judgement against immoveables, and who should get his costs secured, would get more than his due — for a judgement stands on the footing of a second or third mort- gage, and to secure costs to the judgement-plaintiff, who is thus the last mortgagee, is derogating from the rights of others who are not so secured. But all that been said on the subject would be unnecessary, if the House would but agree to a registry bill, by which all the evils detailed would be done away with. It was a blindfold game that was now playingv aembers of ihe' He could un- rhaps of a man ivould reject it were not like im. He might , but he would d of the future 'uri sucra fames :ates of his own Id be to the in- :o8ts— an addi- on every credi- flue^ for fear of g his land sold, •f £20 or £30, Let all this be till was neither Again, it was id like interest le same fate of e of costs, and lal? That the est appear from btors who were their industry,' creditor out of ise be observed ans retained its veral mortgages >rth a large sum y small compa- erty in the di- ought naturally t three fourths. f forced sales; bill. Igeraent against 1 get more than 1 or third mort- is thus the last not so secured, ry, if the House detailed would i now playing^ Securing costs to Plaintiff's, at^f^rTrSir?^^^^^ ^"'^ -" ^^^'-^ -« Dieans of gratifying their avarice. "'°"'*'"*"' ^^o might see in it the be pr^dl^bTrc:^^^^^^^^^^ which would produce a fcad moral effec* to enco'ura^e and i^ t^^^'^'^^y^ '' ^°"'d endeavours to over-reach their cred1?orf if "jfJ^S^hen debtors in their repress the dishonestrof debtors-we sio^ t^ ""' .° '1* ^" "°"'^ *« them-weshouldbecLvertLTthi7c^Lt?- * ""^.'^ legislating for debtors_we should Set them-?n^^^^^^ Z '° "/^J"" for fraudulent ^!, .-^ lif w ■, I , 218 Light Houses, Sgc. \ I I ! be deposited in the Prothonotaries' office— that would supply the place of registrjr-offices. He should be prepared to coucur ia such a sjstem. The House then divided on Mr. Lee's amendment that the discussion be deferred till 28th September next, which was carried by a majority of 19 to 8. House in Committee on light houses in the Gulf and River St. Lawrence^ Mr. YovNo referring to the report of the Committee recommended the adoption of their resolutions, the substance of which was, that It is ex* pedient to construct two light houses on the island of Anticosti ; thai jgl 5,000— be appropriated for building light houses, and ^300—foir the annual expenses thereof ; and that a tonnage duty be imposed on shipping to defray the expenditure. Mr. Speaker PAPiNEAtr obserrefd that the report of the Cdmmittee not being printed, it wad hardly possible for members to make up their minds on those questions — they ought to hate full information before them — and howeter laudable the abject, votirtg jfl 5,000— and imposing a tonnage duty on navigation were objects that required it, he thcOgh^ it would ther6- ibre be expedient to defer the consideration. Mr. Neilsom, said the passing of the first resolution, would not pledge the House to pass the others ; and probably a difference of opinion as to the amount absolutely necessary to be expended would prevail. Two lighthouses on the island of Anticosti were proposed, but Captain Bayfield had himself admitted that one at the east end might suffice for the present. On the other hand, he had recommended a floating.light to be placed in the Traverse ; now, combining these objects, we might Vote such as appeared most indispensible, and declare that it would be expedient for us to do more at a future period. If the funds of the Province would permit, this way of employing them would have his support — but he was afraid not, and we wer6 yet'much in the dark as to what we cotitd afford to lay out. An ex- penditure of this kind would, he believed, do the public more good than many others that had been, or might be, voted. We have the testimony of an experienced and scientific seaman. Captain Bayfield, who tells us that one light house at Anticosti is positively necessary, and that the vtfhole of the navigation from the Golf upwards till the light house at Green Island is made, is extremely dangerOuS from the want of proper beacons. The Committee then rose, reported progress and had to sit again. pply the place of :h a system. lat the discassion led by a majority er St. Lawrence^ ecomroended the vas, that !t is ex* Ailtlcosti ; thai d ^300— fflir the osed OD shipping e Cdmmittee liot :e up their minds lefore them — add posing a tonnage 1^ it woold therd- would not pledge of opinion as to Id prevail. Two Captain Bayfield e for the present. » be placed in the such as appeared for us to do more permit, this way fraid not, and we ay out. An ex- more good than iTc the testimony ildf who tells us y, atid that the he light house at want of proper losit again. Expemn of contested Elections, t\% The HottM in Committee on the expenses of the Commisaionen for the contested electioos of Three Rl?er> and Quebec, in 1827. Mr. NuuoN said the House ought io pay the expeniei.-it was th« commonest rule in e»eiy kind of business that whoever ordered any kind of work to be done ought to pay for it. .-5V;:^r''*'""» °^J««'«?» »» *h« enquiries had not been carried through, Md the Commissioners had not completed the work for which they were K£!k !!7 ^'•"^''»i^»* ^^ been done, the unsuccessful candidates would bare had to pay and not the public. Mr. NutsoN said it was not the fault of the Commissioners the election baa not been decided, because the Parliament had not been dissolved: and lie would ask, how would the House on future contested elections get U>mmissioner8 to act, If they felt it was uncertain whether their ex- penies would be paid. The liberties of the subject, the purity of the llonse, and the maintenance of the Constitution, were all involved In the questions of contested elections, and no hindrance should be put in their Mr. Speaker Papin bau observed that it was a defect in the law that it had not provided for this contingency. The expenses, in such eases, might be much higher than those at present under discussion— there would be difficulties however, in making regulations about them. If the ex- penses were thrown upon the couutry it would bring on frivolous contests* and on another hand, look at the situation of the country, which was such that elections ought to be jealously looked to, and guarded from abuse. In the present case, the expenses were but a small sum- there was no fault to be found with the petitioner,— nothing was amiss — and it might be proper to grant this money,— and afterwards correct the law, and pot it upon such a fixed footing that the question miaht not again arue. ° Mr. L. Laoueox, begged to call the attention of the Committee, to the difference that existed between the two. The Three Rivers Commis- sioners had gone through the enquiry— but those for the Lower Town of Quebec had not, nor could not.— They had taken the oaths, and got the papers from the Speaker— when a protest by the unsuccessful candidate was made against their proceedings— they came to the House to ask what they were to do— the House hesitated— a day was appointed— the matter was referred to a special Committee and postponed— in the interim came the prorogation, and then the dissolution, before which the sitting mem- ber died. But that had nothing to do with it— it was the indecision of the House that caused the delay. S E I I II ft'l! 2^ Montreal Bank. .Ur. Neiwok maintained that in strict justice, it being the duly of tlie House to eiamtne into contested elections, if we delegate Commissiooeri to take tiie trouble off our shoulders, it was our business to pay them. ■m ^IlTu^fr "* divided, and the report was agreed to by a majoritt of 1^ to fl. The rhree Rivers Commissioners are to receive jg73 158. andthA Lower Town Commissioners £44 13s. 9d. to be charged to the Coni tingent expenses of the House. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The bill for facilitating such as haye claims on the Provincial Govern- ment, was passed, with one amendment, and ordered back to the Assembly, HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. Friday, Jan. Ifl. V The bill for anew market in Montreal was passed, and ordered to the Council; Mr. Valueres presented a petition from a number of merchants and traders of Quebec, complaining of the Montreal Bank, of the general manner in which their business is conducted, of their partiality in dis- counts, of their hot redeeming their notes in Quebec, altho* they have a branch-bank there, of their introducing deteriorated coin into the country, &c. Mr. Lee rose to oppose this petition. It would open a door to let in itiatters with which we have nothing to do. It is complained that the bank circulate coin that does not possess a sufficient intriiisin value, but that was not the fault of the bank— it was the fault of the Legislature In giving a legal currency to such coins. If any one had been injured by the conduct of the bank, it is a matter for the Courts of Justice to enquire into. Banks are no more than individuals, in respect to their dealings— and to interfere with them was as if we were to legislate for a merchant as to whether he should give credit or not to Tom, Dick or Harry— and we had nothing to do with why the bank discounted one man's paper and not another's. Even if it be alledged that they have done any thing con- trary to the conditions of their act of incorporation, the Courts of Justice are the tribunals to which resort must be had, not the Assembly; and if the Courts give no decision, or misinterpret the law, then apply to the Assembly for a remedy, by praying them to alter the law. What busi- ness had any persons to reproach the Montreal Bank for discounting or not discounting ? It was their own money— and refusing discounts was like a merchant refusing to give his goods on credit— no complaint could be made against him for that, nor would a complaint of that kind lie against [ the dujjr of tlie ! Commissioo^rji to pay them. najority of 1^ to 7S 15s. amt thi :d to the Con* Tincial Govern* 6 the Assembly. Jan. 10. I drdered to the merchants and of the general irtiality in dis- tho' they have coin into the door to let in rl that the bank ilue, but that Legislature in injured by the tice to enquire 'leir dealings — or a merchant, •r Harry'— and an's paper and tny thing con- urts of Justice lembly; and if 1 apply to the What bttsi- ounting or not ints was like a lint could be nd lieagainit Montreal Isanti . 221 a bant he^e^hlSr /'J"''!"''^''' I'?' '"^^'P^^t'o" i he could establish a Dank here hlmsiV^f if he chose, and iNsue notes, some of them oavable in Quebec some in Montreal, and some in Three Rivers, and employ agent, at those places. What was to prevent the Montreal Bank Zm E ' jn. establishment at Quebec, or^one at Three R ff L c^ose if wa, a matter of speculation. As to their notes-hey reLmerj^^^^^^ we're s"ntifi:H'"' T? ^"^"''^ "^'^ ^"^ ""' ^"« ^^^-^^ ^ "^^o" were specified, and it was not any cause of complaint whatever fnr ti?« Mr. Vallieues stated that the mere discussion of the Question «« on- ?n hU m".*; "°^^"'?r'"- , '^''"^ hon. geotleman sayMhatrdotr hin! In this matter, would interfere with individual Industry and exertion IK^ banks are public bodies, incorporated by u., for (he adva„ ge'of^he public. Now, if it be proved that ti.ev are nreiudicial to »h« ur to a great part of the pufdic, we, who ha've rn^iSthem 1^^^^^ Wh"n'l"'~Kr'' " "^^' '° *'"9"''-*'' •» «'»«■•> «ve« to rtca 1, our Vrln StVrn?"^'" 'T"'' ? '" ^"^'^''*^"' ^« »»»*« a "8ht to in e'fe re* with private concerns. As to the notes, he would not a«ree that ihlllllZ. navaLT'."''""";'?"!*- '* - -^Pl-ned that fh co. dition of 'Xre Sli?,h"-^''" added-that it is a condition not calculaced o. T* the time of the issue. He did not mean to say this was so-but trcomSLi„t :;::^rb:^s '^:::^:^^ ^ - conduio. td^ c bots^r^''^* n '■- i"^' ^ i" the c^ir-ii: ft^rntri: n«r*/K'lT »« bullion-and issued it at its nominal value j and morf over, that this was worn-out, deteriorated coin, which banished thp d ! coin from circulation. The petition certainly co'ntaineS ver?hea,fc£^^^^ and «»n.pla.ned of serious grievances. Helould not answe^r thatTheyXe true-but that ought to be enquired into; that they were rZotU^It nary grievances, could only be proved by receivin« thrDetitfo. /„ i^ •iderlng it. If they are decide J to be uLu„ded?thei Set • but'^'t now at its first production. The right of petitioning was sac ed • and U was onr duty to receive all petitions! * ^ * *"'' " .u ^!i ^V*^* observed, that this petition complained of heavvffr!Man.-« that the Montreal Bank had fettered and obstructed the ODeraUo « „f " ' merce-that they had been partial in their di^ountlllSrsa/m^^^^^ as to say, they would not give credit to people who were notlhl LTl 7hod''.-°*?; ;'-"'^«>« thought st^ang'etocLpTan ofa'Ler^^^^^^^^ ^ho declined to discount a bill offered him, or to renew ih*. hiMoT' u . . when it did not suit the parties to pay "hem He observed a Lm ^^^ was made of the issue of sm'all notes fo'rLe and twodol ars if the^^^^^^^^ a prejudice to the public, which remained to be proved the Mn T^ Bank was not to blame for it. As to the place of';7yt'en?lM:o;::;l 1'! ' il tfHt Montreal Bank, « \ ii wu tha pUe« whM-a the Bank was held^^bera «aa tooflca andtfctngfc they night hare another, he did not see there wai much injoitica to dacllno paying their notes any where but at their own domicile. It it tr«e« m ex post facto addition of the conditions of payment, required iufestigatiooi ' Mr. VAtLiRitsa stated, that notice was riren in the newspapers, that after a certain date, no notes should be paid at their office in Queliec; but such as had the words " payable at Quebec," stamped on them. This notice admitted, that previous to the date specified, others were, and had been, payabie there : therefore, as to all that were not presented there within the prescribed time, this was, without doubt, an ex pott facto ad- dition to the conditions on which the holders had taicen them. Mr. Lbb said, it was not till after the Montreal Bank had given that notice, that they stamped on their notes, " payable at Quebec." Without that they were only payable in Montreal ; but it roust be remarked too, that this stainp was not put upon them till after they had come back to the office at Montreal, and when they were re-issued. As to the un- stamped notes which remained in circulation, the Bank could not tear them out of the hands of those who held them, for the purpose of itamping them ; but when they came back m regular course, and were issued in regular course, then they were stamped. But this was not the chief objection to the petition which was, that it interfered not only with the course of mercantile industry and with private concerns, but also with the jurisdiction of the law and of the courts of justice. Commercial in- dustry and speculation ought to be left to themselves— they would work ^eir own way, and if there arose any fraud or injury to others in tho course of the transactions they gave rise to, the courts of justice were open. It was they who had to decide — they who had to protect and re- dress those who had cause to complain. And should cause of complaint exist after their decision, then might people come to the Assembly and call on them to pass an act to remedy the evils which a court of law could not remove ; or even to cancel an incorporation which was found to be productive of evil. He knew that a great number of persons complained of the Banks, because they could not get from them what the wanted. Many seemed to consider Banks as charitable institutions. Tliat a bank was a kind of refuge for the destitute, that it was a place where those who could not get money any where else were entitled to go for it. If the Bank had done what individuals have, there would have oeen much more tibmmercial difficulty, the Banks had been too indulgent ; if blame be attributable to them, it wa$ because they shewed more lenity than they ought to, to those who did not feel the commercisd obligation of punc- tuality in the payment of bills. There was a systepi to be observed in that respect, and if the Banks had deviated from the true system, it was exactly in a contrary direction to that which the petition complained of. As to trading in coin or bullion, has not every individual a right to do so? Montreal Sank. n$ iitiee to dtello« It it tr«e« n diuTcttigatioa^ iwgpapen, that in Quebec, but n tliem. This were, andliad preaented there ix po$i facto »d' em. had given that Bbec." Without I remarked too, d come back to As to the vn- could not tear the purpose of )arse, and were lis was not the 1 not only with s, but also with Commercial in- ley would work others in thrs Df justice were protect and re« le of complaint Assembly and urt of law could xras found to be ons complained at the wanted. That a bank irhere those who > for it. If the een much more it ; if blame be enity than they Ration ofpunc- be observed in i system, it was complained of. 1 right to do 10? !l'''?x.*.^^^ *f ,'^' "^°'y ■• ^^^ •» •rt*cl« of trade «• itit If not, let It be «mWned and enacted ly an act of thS LegisKTl^t tS thrt was done, the trade in coins waaope* to all. ««»,wmiw Mr, CovitiiEE said, if he were called on to speak as to the marfiiM. ment of the Bank of Montwal as a public body, anWto iS uSi?y^ pubhc,he mtuit say it had been of thegreatest ^vantage. They «^^ Msisiance when they were safe in soloing. But eveS^eed/iSI sSmS Sr„"*lSft?"*' °^Jf ""''*!? ^ *»^"8«*» to satisfy the cravinjs of «2 Zn t^i i^*!,"**" ^^^y^B^' '»>• "O'e they wanti. As to tJaSo^ Si h2; ^h^k"'*? "°' ^^^ °"^y °"*' »*"» **'«^ specuktion in ^t way iffii?? "♦?** ^^ ^•'^•- To repn»ch the Bank iith trading in oS, Zi as Uttle to the purpose, as if they were reproached with selliL thdr bSI Jf ^change on London at New York or Soston becausTtSey couW «ta Wgher rate there than here. He would say in his pkce, as ISmlS Jf Jat House, and inthefiice of the petition, however rispectSy iTiJ. fiS'i ^i"*^/ ^^ of Montreal bild evericted in the m^t Sr w^J^ both tor the advantage of the pubUc, and the interest of stocEhoC ^' Upon Mr. VALUBaas' motion for its being referred to a Committee. Sbi. M. r^"^ *" amendment, for iu Eeiiig ordered to lie on the Wile. Mr. VAixiBaas considered this as neithergmcious nor reeukr Mr OoD||ii contended it was regular, and that it was^TmpetenrfXy mem: f^rTtoTuXr SbS* '" " *' "^ *^" "*• *''^' ^' ''^^°' ^ »»-»»»-' «.5/;iXi!:I'"iT*°?J*''**PP°'*""'*y*'' the debate being resumed, to remark that, dthough the notes were certainly nominally payable in Mont- real, yet as they had for years been paid in Quebec, to make a dSc- tfon between some notes and others, was really imposing on the public. What IS the use of bank-notes, but as a repoi ciiSilatSg medium, &; which cash can be got at any time, but by tKis arrangement the holdeJs of lSfh°tw '°«»* *;«"»««i^«'« «n q«ite a'dlfferent sftuation from tba"fn J. il. irT' K^' .?*•'* traffic iocoin, if that were one that belonged to Jews, then he should say the bank of Montreal area Jewish Bank They have introduced a superabundance of light coin, which bore an ideal SSn.5f tL "* "^^f ""S*** 1° ^ «?n8Wered as to its intrinsic value, and through their operations, as It was alleged, had banished a proportionate qusntity of better and heavy coin from the country. But, if plrt of a SS in^iS'rin"^ w'^Sl^^l"*' *^** ^ "° "^*»" ^" rqecting it m toto, ^d not enqiunng into the other parts. ' .h^'SA ''"■ '^f* n '^! ^""^ P*'?''* "' *•* P»y '» ^"^"'^h half crowns, what should prevent a Bank more than individuals from doing so. The law does not prohibit speculating in coin, it is no reproach to do so, no moJI I i j If 1 It I! i ■ im-' Montreal Bank. than to Rpeculate in lumber, or com, or ilny other article r/f trade. It ttras nothing but this, the Hank proved to be more indaritrious, enterprising^, and alert than others, and even tlierefore envied. The question was re- ducible tu the simple proposition that the Bank being incorporated, even if they liad done wrong, we could not Interfere till the Courts of Jusiice had decided, and if they bad acted contrary to their oharteri. U might be taken away. Mr. L. Laovbox said, the mercantile gentlemen Who had spoken might be better acquainted with Its bearings than he was } but we were riot bound to give more credit to the assertions of an hon. member in his place, than to what the petitioners say j both should be put to the test df enquiry. The arguments of the hon. member for the l^wer Town involved also a contradiction. He scoined astonished there was no law to prevent trafficking in coin, and then forms the conclusion thut as there is no hiw, It was nil right, and we had no business to enquire, but thte again was all the more reason for enquiry. He argues, Aat IndividualB may do so, then why not tiaaks, who, he says, are the same aa indivi- duals—but they are not individuals, they are pubHc bodies, they have ap- plied to the Legislature to give them more privileges and power thati others ; and we ought to see that thope privileges and powers are lUot abused, so as to tend to the detriment of the public, instead of its ad- vantage. All reasons combine to show that we ought to enquire, whethej the fault lies In the Ranks, in individuals, or In the law. Tlje hon. memr bers for the Lower Town and the Upper Town were at issue, as to the addition of " payable at Quebec," being an ex post facto condition, the hon. member for the Lower Town contends it is not so, as it is only mcde ,when they are re-iesued ; but the condition extends to those notes which may be quietly reposing in the port-folios, or chests, of individuals whp never dream of it, who may have long had them in possession, and who upon the fuith of their having been tukcn up without distinction before^ think them quite as good as others ; and wiien they go to purchase an i^r- tide, or exchange a bill, are told no— this won't pass — it is npt payable at Quebec— you must go to Montreal for it. This was iu^posing on, and inconveniencing, the public. We have a petition before us complaining of these practices— if they are not true, or prove to be no grievances— so much the better for the Montreal Bank j but we were bound to enquire. As the representative of a free country, he considered himself bound tq receive and to consider all petitions, whetlier relating to a wealthy Bank, or a persecuted Individual : we were hereto listen to petitions, to enquire into them, and redress grievances. Mr. BouBDAGES remarked that a material part of the petition had escaped notice. It was that which related to the unsalisfiiotory state- ments rendered to the liCgislature by the Banks— and especially he thought the suggestion as to the bad debts due to the Banks being diitin- Montreal Bank. nb tradp. It Praa I, enterprising, uestion was re< >rporated, even urts of Jusiice irter, U migt^t I spoken might we were rioi nember in his it to the teat df Ijower Town re was no law n that as there iuire> butthi^ hat individualB lame Aa indivi- they haveap- id power thaufi )wers are inot stead of its ad- gutre, whether ^e hon. mem- ssuej as to the indition. The it is only mcde )e notes which difiduals wlip sion, and who i notion before^ urchase an i^r- not payable at osing on, and IS complaining ;rievances — so nd to enquire, iself bound to vealthy Bank, mSf to enquire i petition had fuotory Btate- especially he t being diitin- ^•hed from the good, ouKht to be taken notice of—witboul whioh thdr ret^^a• co^jd not but be fallacious. wunoui Htiton tHeir »« JI*"* ^f ■'* ''^•"^''nent for the petition to lie on the table was then nuk to the rote, and negaUved by a majority of twenty-two to two ^ ^JnZ' ^^""..'•'=f"^«j' *o '^ Committee of five, with Instructions to enquire On the motion for printing the petition against the Montreal Bank. orimld un^rw S'Tf^ '' """"^^^ \^^ " '•"'*' »'•'" »« Petition 'bould be printed until t had been proved that the allegations were correct U myht otherwise be made the vehicle of libel. The pcUtlon «« nst a jud-ge had recently been ordered to be printed- this was d?cSg tCh the country what might ultimately prove to be a libel. He"pSke «no fallyas toa^l petitions which involied characters. TheVe ought not ?«' becirculaed until the allegations were proven. In the iSie wi K t''he'HoL'r'7«Jl^r/''''''*''-''".f""»^ ^"^'^^ was decent as «^ded L^nl^Th!r;:Svi I' was requ.red)~might Je very inflammatory^ «. garded the h^dlviduals. and to publish and to circulate such langu4"wM twen leth part of a farthmg, for all that was snid aeainst it-but th! prmcple was the same-it ought not be printed an.l ^bUshed-ani h' expenses of printmg of the House were enormous. There had b^en Wd dSJ^''nf"r" *'^"*r«'!*"5 »"« '•«»«'•"» of the Sheriffs of the Sen. disncu., of the several actions, capiases, &c. from 1814 to 1828, wWch! instead of being returns merely of the number of actions and Amounts n^nifonrf^^ *r" ^r^"""'"'"* '^ythe names of all the pla3 and defendants tor those 14 or 15 years being made part of the retu nw- an addition that was as indelicate and improper as it wa& uselesra^ jStifief *" ^^^^^•''^"''^y expenditure ^oT incurred, ihTch n^htn^ Mr. BouMDAGES, contended that as this petition waapresented qn public gmunds-.t ought to be printed for the benefit of the public, ^s t'^ an? in thut House, when a paper was required to be printed, if it proved agreeable to the wishes of the members, there was mSney enoughL-Tur^ It was not so— then they had no money to spore. * lutln'.!ffThl rf^T**"'" °" ^^ Petition of Judge Bedard.-Tbe Reso-! lutioiw of the Committee were read, via : I 'i Pentton to Judg$ Jhdard. 1. That (he Pro? iocUl Judge for the DlMrioC of Three Riren b pUeed la • iltMtion wherein, Co obtain leare of abMnce In oa«e of tiokDeM, he U obliged to take oat a ooamiMion for a Jodge in hii itead, and to obtain a new conmluioa for hlouelf before he can retnne hit illoatlon, wherebj the present Jadge haa on two Mferal oeoailou been eipoeed to various ioconr eniencee and dleadfantaget. 9. That It It expedient to amend the act of 34 Geo. III. lo ai to place the ProTlaclal Jndge of the DUtriet of Three River* on the lame footing at to title, rank, power, and authority, In all catet, as the Jottlcet for the Diitrictt of Qnobec and Montreal, and to empower the Goremor, fte. for the time being, to tubtiitute any one of the Juiticet of the taid Dit> tricti, to act In ue ttead of the uid Judge, In the cate of ticknem or necettary abtence, without any new coamittion for that purpote. 9, That a turn not eiceeding ^400 tterilng, annualiv be granted to bestow a penrion on Pierre Bedard, Etquire, Provincial Judge for the dittrict of Three Riven, In the event m the tald Pierre Bedard being obliged by iU health to retign his office. Mr. NaiLBOM proposed that the pension of Judge Bedard, on bit retire- ment, ihoold be the amount of bis present salary, vii : £WiO sterling. Mr. Sol. Gen. Oodkn would cheerfully accede to the two first resolu. tlons, but would wish another substituted for the third. He had always been at a loss to conceive why, in the Judicature act of 1774, the Judge of the district of Three Riven was called a Provincial Judge, or why he should not be called as the othen were, a Judge of the Court of King's Bench. Had it been so, the cause of complaint now exhibited could not have existed. All other Judges now take precedence of him, from the circumstance that he is obliged, after every absence from indisposition or otherwise, to take out a new commiisioo, from the date of which only he takes rank. He Is obliged to sit at (he left hand of Judges, who have heen railed to the bench ten or fifteen yean after him. There was no reason why the Jodge of Three Riven should not be a Judge of the Giurt of King's Bench. In civil cases, the whole responsibility rested on him, and the whole of the labour too. He was the only Judge — well or ill—he was the man— and was subjected to degradation and inconvenience. If he happened to be unable at any Ume to discbarge his duty, he bad to get another Judge to do duty for him — he had to hire another Jndge to take his place, fiiut Judges ought not to be liable to be hirad. But the remedy for all this was, that the Jndge of Three Riven should be put ou the same footing with tfaie Judges of Quebec and Montreal ; not only in point of rank and dignity, but also as to salary. The Judges of Que?' x and Mont- real had j^OOO salary — the same salary ought to be given to Judge Bedard, and then, after having served fifteen yean, he should, on his retirement, as in England, be entided (o a pension of j^GOO — the amount of his present salary. That was the mode on whkh it ought to be managed. Pension to Judge Bcdard. Liftn b sUetd «eof •lokDtM, I itead, ud to • hit lilMiUon, B«n eipoted to . lo M to pliieo lie Mune footiog i« Jmticoi for Go? ernor, fte. f the Mid DIs. of lickneiii or turpote. be granted to Judge for the Bedmrd being J, on hit retlre- BOO iterling. wo first reiola. He had nlweyf 774,theJndfe dge, or whr he inrt of Ring's >!ted could not r him, from the ndispositlon or which only he who liave heen was no reason >f the Coart of rested on bio, Mrell or ill—he nrenience. If , he bad to get Jndge to take lut the remedy at on the same ily in point of I :c and Mont- ren to Judge ihould, on his >— the amount be managed. 287 Mr. Neuiom said, the Hon. Solicitor General was wrong fn speaking/ of ages being paid to other Jud^e» for officiating in Ju.l«e BrdLrdn stead —In fact, no Judge that did duty for him eter thought of such a thing. nn^r'^^^l""" "P'"*"?'^' ♦!"»* "•«»* »•« ""Mnt to say was, that no Judge SlI^K I ''.'".* 'L'"'""" '» '««"ve Hages-i,o by no means meant that any had actually done so. thi^HL!I'?^;iil?"*''u-*" '"/•'^'°/"y '" P"'"* "^ «"**'"* ""-^ population of the dis rict of 1 hree Rivers to those of Quebec a.d Montreal did not re- tTe"tl!e« *^ "'*'* ** *'" P"* °" *'•*' "'"'' ''*'***''8 •« '''°^ «' * Mr. NEtr.soif stated, th»t the population of the district of Three Rivers 'iiftS'* H'^' '" *^' L'tT *«'"<^t°f St. Francis, amounVed to aOjOOO, whK-h was nearly half of that of the district of Quebec, l-iS ooo • nnd It oiiglitto be recollected that there were four Judges here, and there! lore one was not an adequate proportion for that district. Mr. Speaker Pahneau referred to the history of the Province for fh« reason why the Court established at Three Rivers was considered as in- ferior to those in the other diutricts. Under the old French Government a Court had existed there— but from its comparative unsettled state that t^urt lud been suppressed. Hence, when English Courts were introduced .a7I£-T'i "^^ *" *u''" »'»P'V"»«»t d''^'""** a« inferior jurisdiction was estaWished. Siace that time, the country had rapidly developed itself and was consolidated into such a state of growing importance, that it was now necessary to place the Judges of the district of Three Rivers oii the same footing as the Judges of the ether districts— they ought to have ihe same rank; the other inferior districts would go on progressively— and in bice manner, wilJ, pnobably, ere long, require to have stationary Courts of King's Bench estabKshed in them. In this case, a question occurred as to whether we ought to give, by anticipation, a pension to a Jod«e who had not as yet resigned. It was a practice that was not usual. To obvlite any objection nf tlws natare, he was inclined to agree with the proposal of the hon. Solictor General^ that he shouUI have the same salary as the other Judges, and then, whether he enjoyed that salary for one year or one month, he would be entitled to a proportionate pension on his retirement If we make it a precedent to grant the entire salary of a Judge as a pen-* sron to him on retirement, it might be productive of abuse— and a Judge might, on slight grounds, represent himself as too ill to perform his duties for the- purpose of having the salary without the labour. •' Mr. NEitsoir said, he was ready and willing both to take time himself and to gfve time to^ others to teftect on any measure. He did not think like the hon. Speaker, in, one respect : he conceived it impossible to sup! ■I '4 '3 II! ii 228 Pension to Judge Sedard. pose. In any case, that any Judge could, or would, pretend illness, in order to get a pension. They were incapable of it. The maladies under -which Judge Bedard laboured, were fully established; had he, from his private fortune, or from the savings of his salary, had the means of re- tiring, he would probably never have troubled the Hou^e with any ap- plication. Must a man wait till he is dead to a&k for a pension ? He asks for it now by anticipation, because without an assurance of that kind he can not afford to resign, be bis infirmities ever so great. The wants of his family required his continuing to sit as a Judge, though ever •0 much affected, because there was no certain proTiiion for bim after. Mr. Vallieues concurred in the observation, that it was not possible for Judge Bedard to resign, under his circumstances, without an assurance of a proper provision. As to the inferiority of the district, it rendered his situation only the more cruel. He had all the duties to perform in ordinary cases, and in others, he sat below the other Judges. The Judge who is always present, ought to preside, and the others to be considered only as his assessors. The resident Judge should be president, and to stick to the letter of the law, as to precedence arising from the date of commission, in this instance, illustrated the saying, summa justicia, $umma injuria. Mr. Stuabt remarked, that Judge Bedard asking now for a pension, after a long period of hard service, and all knowing and acknowledging his merits and the justice of his request, the only real question was that of the quantum. Let us not add to the other injustices he had suffered-— which all admitted had been the case — that of making his retiring-pension less than that of the other Judges. This ought not to be measured out by arithmetical division : whether the pension should be a half, a third, or fourth of any given sum, ought not to be the question— but can be Jive oit< great. The , though ever r bim after. ot possible for ; an assurance t) it rendered to perforin in . The Judge be considered iident, and to n the date of usticiOf summa for a pension^ oknowledging stion was that lad suffered — tiring-pension measured out k half, a third, )ut can be Jive Province for a the same sum hich would be )i many years, and this was ire as much as ry high in this d expenditure. est were but ess expensive. ihe salaries of urket. On the third resolution, Mr. Neilson said, it was not his intention to press this question to issue now, but to give time for members to consider of it. Mr. Stuaht was not prepared to agree with the hon. Solicitor General for granting an increased salary to the Judge, and then give a pension in proportion to it. This did not appear to him a necessary preliminaiV to the discussion of the i^uestion of quantum. Every one seemed to be of opinion that Judge Bedard bad now too small a salary, but that was not now the question. It had been argued we ought to take certain propor- tions of a salary as a principle. That was no proper criterion. If one has a salary of jglOOO, one fourth of it, ^250, may be enough to live on • but such as may have only jpioo, would die of starvation upon one fourth of that home certain sum was necessary for the maintenance of every man, and particularly of every man, who by the very circumstance of having a pension, was presumed to have no other means of a livelihood. Proportions were blind and bad guides. A man may live on a loaf a day perhaps— he may half starve on half a one, but if you cut it down to a quarter or an eighth, you will find him dead on a bundle of straw. The argument was stronger when one went to higher 8P7i8,asalary of j^lO,000, cut it down as you like, would enable a man to live in afluence on a'pro- portionate pension,— and what would one of £50, do ? All men must eat and drink, and the Judge of Three Rivers as well as other Judges, if 500 is the least we have hitherto given ; and it was quite as necessary for him to have 4^500 as other Judges. But he shonld wish it to be ^60(K-not, however upon any principle of proportion to salary ; but because he wanted it, and ought to have it. The discussion of the amount was postponed; the Committee rose, reported progress, and had leave to sit again. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The bill for facilitating a legal remedy for such as have claims upon H. M.'s Provincial Government, was passed, with one amendment, and ordered back to the Assembly. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY, Satcbday, Jan. 17. Mr. VioEB moved for an address to H. E. for a copy of a dispatch fo Sir Francis Burton, of the 30th September, 1825, having reference to another dispatch of the 4th Juneprecedingo Mr. Solicitor Gbneral opposed the motion, as he would always do whtn he foaad the object was to pry unnecessarily into the private eor- i i:,'l I % ,!i ''; 230 Bridge over the St. Maurice. respondcnce between the Government and His Majesty's ministers The House might put itself into a situation to have their application rejected— if they wanted any particular information— apply for it-well and ffood • but to ask the Governor to lay before them the whole of the privatefind confidential dispatches from Government, was too much : askfor as many particulars as you will, but not for the whole of a dispatch. Mr. ViQEB said the distinction of the hon. Solicitor General was im- properly drawn between the Govt- rnmenl and the House. The Assembly was part of the Government, and was entitled to know the measures and feelings of the other part, in order to guide their own, without which tio cordiahty could take place, and the Government would be like that of the inquisition, where information was only doled out at the option of the inquisitor, t- «* Mr. VAtLiiHES asked whether there cotlld bft, \vith ptoprietv, any paper or any dispatch in the possession of Government that ougiit not to be communicated to the people if wanted.* Whatevei- may have been before, there was now no cause for concealment. Therd can now be nb papers that contained the plans, or purposes of a conspiracy against the people. All mysteries between the Governors and the governed destroy confidence. He thought there was now no risk of beiilg refused : we had H. E. s assurance that he would afford the House all the information in his power J we had no reason to doubt or mistrust him. He would allo^r, refusals had before occurred, but that Was when persons had influence hmi power who wanted to blind both the people and mittisters. He con- ceived there existed no more difficulty now in procuring any kind of paper, than there was, n asking for it. '=' ^ The House then divided on the mention, yeas 92, nay 1. Mr. SoLiciTOH Genehal begged to call the attention of the House to a subject which had before occupied it, but which he should now take upon different grounds. He should refer first to the proceedings in the House m 1816, on the subject of building a bridge over the St. Maurice. The decision the other evening, when he was absent, did not touch the ques- tion of whether the bridge should be built or not, it only negatived the grant of a^IOO for a survey and estimate, and it was right in so doinff tor such documents are already in possession of the House. He referred to the journals, in which it appeared that, several years ago, when the same measure was proposed, the surveys and estimates of J. B. Bedard were obtained. He wished now to bring it to the point, and to induce tne House to say positively yea or nay to the erection of a bridge. Mr. Lke considered that it was not the usage of Parliament to ^nter- tam any subject which had been previously disposed of the same Session, no more by indirect means, than directly. This question had already Bridge over the St. Maurice. 231 ^100 for a survey. It wae riX;* «LTV ^** '^'*'' '"^'"^'y *" ^ote the Journals, the Vordrof &^^^^^^^^^ f- taking up al'-eady here, without any further exnpnfl T ^ ^^^'^ '^'^*^^ "'e reconls, which had^ adopted S« meis«r« S ^ "* •!»" i** own motion. Itinightbeinconvenie^tn^r!n? ?'*'' *•* ^**"*** fotlfld his the bridge, but if a Se were *!vl^L^°^ ^' *V*?J^ ^""^ *»»« "«««on of ftave some efiect * aUhl' k^X^thJ d^'^l^ ?''^' J^""*''' '^ ^''"^^ onceoccnrmlbythewa«toflhi?br^^^^^ '^'^''^^ had if it \*tts to be hJoI!», -♦ 11 tI *'^*> '* *^"''^ no* ^ too soon hcenti a majority of 19 to 4. sostained Mr. Speaker's decision by a bridge over the St jLlnrlk 1 .. "P'*™"!- of coMtnicti.g by a majority of j^ ;y°°* P»*"> »nd the Speaker's decision maintaiaed 11 :i| ^iil 233 Message on the Royal Institution. and the House again divided, and decided in faTOur of the Speaker hy the same majority as before. Mr. BouRDAOEs introduced a bill to relieve the distressed of Lotbinibre. Mr. Neilson introduced a bill to regulate curing, packing and inspec- tion of Beef and Pork. Mr. BovRDAOES introduced a bill to revive and amend the Ordinance for the regulation of Surveyors. Mr. Neilson reported from the Committee on Hospitals, ftc, at Que- bec ; referred to Committee on the whole on Montreal General Hospital, &c. On motion of Mr. Vallieres, the House on the Message from the Coancil asking documents, &c. relating to the bill for the qualification of Justices, agreed to a resolve '* that it has not been the practice of either *' House of Parliament to desire of the other the informations on which they have proceeded in passing any bill, except where such informa- tion has related to facts stated in such bill as the ground and formation thereof, and that the Assembly think this reason sufficient for not giving at this time any further answer to the Message of the Legislative Council." « tt it A message from H. E. was received furnishing the instructions and documents relating to the present system of granting lands in the Pro- vince, and another as follows : '^ H. E. regrets to inform the House that it has been found impossible under the act of 1801, to form a separate Coirmittee of the Royal lustitu- tion, for the exclusive regulation and superintendence of Roman Catholic Schools, as recommended in the late Governor in Chief's message of the 13th February, 1827, that act not authorizing the Governor to add a sufficient number of members to the Board of Trustees for that purpose. << It being, however, most desirable that an arrangement of so much importance, and one which will secure the co-operation and assistance of the Reman Catholic Bishop and the Clergy of that Church should be car- ried into immediate execution, H. S. recommends the House to amend the act of 1801, in so far that the necessary power may be vested in the Governor to encrease the number of Trustees, in order that a separate Committee may be formed for the superintendance of the Roman Catholic Schools. In connection with this subject, H. E. lays before the Assembly a memorial which he has lately received from the Revd. Dr. Mills on the subject of his salary, as Secretary of the Board of Royal Institution, to which office he was appointed by Letters Patent bearing date the 13th December, 1819, and having satisfied himself of the nature and extent ' the Speaker hj ed of Lotbioibre. kiDg and iDspec- d the Ordinance Is, kc.f at Que- ral Hospital, &c. essage from the e qualification of »ractice of either latioos on which re such informa« id and formation !nt for not giving the Legislatife instructions and inds in the Pro- bund impossible e Royal lustitu' Roman Catholic > message of the ernor to add a 9r that purpose. ent of so much id assistance of 1 should be car> se to amend the e vested in the that a separate loman Catholic e the Assembly ^r. Mills on the Institution, tQ date the 13th ture and extent College at Kamouraska, 233 r/duif mm" ?'• ^'"' ^"J'T '^''"^^ "P°" *° P«''f°'''"» H- E. consider. roisV ? *° '^T"^"'* ''"' prayer of his memorial to the favourable consideration of the Assembly." »"urauw The House in Committee on the petition for a College at Kamouraska. Mr. BoRGXA proposed a first resolution, purporting that Kamonraska was ^he most central and advantageous place fof thee.UblisfmTnt «f a «f k"*/*"*"^ "?' ^i*** " *^® population of the three contlguons parishes of Kamouraska, St. Anne and Rivifere Quelle, exceeded thatof the whofe county of CornwaUis, he should be of opinion that the erectbn and in! corporation of a College at Kamouraska, might be advisable, but Ihould ^SL V"' l°'?*° '***" ""^ *'^ *°^"<''' '*• Whenever the ProJince appro- pnated part of its revenue to the purposes of public education, Kamou- raska would have its share. There were doubts however, as tothemo^t LTSPd"' Kamouraska had its advocates, so had the RiviSre Oaelle. and Mr. Painchaud, the curate of Ste. Anne, had already a College there! Ihe opinion of the Bishop also did not seem' to favour the mode adopted He could not recommend any pecuniary aid, and thought that, for better ctrtrto^aUTnl''"*'"" ''•' "'"'°"^'' to be printed, and the Mr. VioER did not see how Kamouraska which was represented as rich and populous, should ask for aid to build a College. JHe was against voting money where it was not wanted, Kamouraska asks for an in- meTns^? '°° *° ***'*''* '"''*°'**'* ^^' °*' "*""** **""" ^"' ** '''^^ ^^ *•"» Mr. BoRQiA having at considerable length enforced his previous ar«u- ments, Mr. Qdesnei, said, the hon. gentleman had pleaded the cause at great length, but he had too much overloaded bis plea, and had totallv omitted all thai might be said against it. The object of this application is to engage the Assembly to vote a considerable sum of money for a College at Kamouraska, whilst Kamouraska with all her riches does not even possess a common school. There is a school or a college at Sainte Anne about which we ought to get more information, Iq most parts of the country, schools were wanted, but the schools chiefly wanted were those m which elementary knowledge was taught, reading and writing, EngUsh and French, arithmetic, &c, 8> '-"suou Mr. VioER remarked, that they had got into a discussion foreign to that jerore the House; general elementary education was not the question? It was for a particular college for the county of Corowallis, and althoueh the central point was stated to be Kamouraska, the application did not Mgard that parish alone. Yet it was one he did not think ought to be li! S34 Proceedings ia the House. granted ^ or if an incorporation was g^ven, eiery tUng elM nmst be pro- vided for by th« parties who applied. ^i . BoBGiA rose again, to state that Mr. Tach^, the Sefgnear of KamouraaJcay had offered a piece of land for the erectioa of the college. The House divided on the first resolution, which was nen^tived by a int^orUy of 29 40 l»,Mr. Borgia being the only yea. On the second resolution, that it would be expedient that a college shoidd be erected for the county of Cornwallis, ap'' ^ss an act for its incorporation; Mr. Viqgr iDor«d, that the cL. lo now leave the chair. After some discussion, Mr. Stuart said, he was sorry such a measure, which was intended for ihs promotion of education should be lost} either through irregularity or predpitacy. His own feetir j was, that the public moiiey ought not to be expended iu establishing a college at Kamouraska ; but ttat least ought to be considered, and we ought to defer it till another day. Upon the motion for the chairman's tearing Ac chair being put, it was carried by a majority of 20 to 8, (Borf^a and Stuart,) a«d the Committee rose without reporting. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY. X.. MowaATy Jaa. 19. Aft answer was recetved from H. E. to the addre«» pnvjriog for a com- munication of a dispatch to Sir Francis Burton of the 30th Sept. 1835, stating that the dispatch in question QOt being of record in the office, por in his poBsesMou, he could not comply with the desires of the Houses Bfr. I^ntiB brought in a bill for the establislmeiit of a Fke Sodety in MootreiJ. Mr. YisBR presented a petition fiMwi ittlMbitaoti «l ChamUy ag^nat th«. petitioa fermetly presented for a bridge oror tfae Liitle Wmt Montreal. Qb motitii of Mr. %mu Gwa.. 800 copies of the report of t)ke Com- missioners for exploring the Saguenay country were ordered tob^printec^ and the report referred to a Committee. TIm bill to esknd certain privileges to pecsoos o£ the Jewifh fii^iih WM pMud|.aiid •rdeicd to (he Goiweii. ^ ^ liAjm >a Coauaitie? oa i^ petition of JiS^, 3edaid. most be pro- Sefgnenr of he c<»Uege. (f^tived by a hat 8 college an act for its » now leave ^ a measare, le lost} either iiat the pnblf c E^amouraska ; it till another ir being put, irt,) avd the ■.10. ig for a com- h Sept. 1835, he office, por i^Hoose^ File Society uaUy afloat Liitle Ruer ; of t)ke Corn- to b« printed,