IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) V ^ /. {•/ i^. ^^ 7i 1.0 I.I 25 20 1.8 1.25 j|jj!!4 ii.6 V] V) /. '^J v >^ A .^N^ •N? ^ :\ \ , 13 were 6 steamships of 5,545 tonnage, and 252 sailing vessels of 65,365 tonnage; whilst in 1874 we find in all 731 vessels of 423,423 tonnage, of which no less than 266 were steam- ships of 262,096 tonnage. It is also seen from this table that this increase has taken a steady onward progress over the whole of that period. In steamships especially the increase has been remarkably regular year by year. The statement of the number and tonnage of inland vessels, (the returns for which we have only received from 1861), shews that in 1861 there entered 5,247 vessels of 530,224 tonnage ; and in 1874, 6,855 vessels of 956,837 tonnage. ( Vide page 187 of Appendix.) As regards the revenue from Harbour dues, taking periods of ten years, we find, from the statement of the Secretary to the Harbour Commissioners (page 179 of the Appendix) that it has also had a progressive in- crease, subject, of course, to fluctuation in certain years, but bearing a steady increase on the average. For the last two years since these statements were completed there has been a decrease in the revenue below that of 1874, but this decrease has been mostly confined to local traffic. This is, no doubt, due to Montreal having parti- cipated in the universal commercial depression, and may be viewed as an exceptional fluctuation. In 1854 the revenue from dues, was 64,000 dols.; in 186* the revenue was 105,326 dols., and expenditure 76,157 dols., leaving a sur- plus of 29,169 dols. ; anc 1874 the revenue was 280,021 dols., and expenditure 127,468 dols., leaving a surplus of 152,553 dols.; the latter representing a capitalised sum of three million dols. available for the construction of works, 14 even without taking into considerat n the probable in- crease of surplus in future years. It is evident from the returns referred to that the im- provements in the water approaches to Montreal, alike in the lower and upper navigations, together with the establishment of the railway system of the country, have borne fruits which fully meet the sanguine expectations which were formed by merchants and the Engineers whom thcv consulted a generation ago. There can be no doubt whatever that the tendency of every in- ternal improvement is to increase the trade of Montreal and that, as the navigation of the canals and river channels is further enlarged and deepened, as lines of railway are carried into new productive fields, as settlements are ex- tended, and as the population of the central and western sections of the Dominion is increased, the prosperity of Montreal will be augmented. It is obvious, therefore, that the Commissioners are justified in extending the already cramped Harbour accommodaticn ajid in anticipating before long a considerable increase to the trade and shipping of the port. THE WHARFAGE AS AT PRESENT EXISTING. The present accommodation afforded by the Harbour of Montreal for loading and discharging vessels is by a lino of wharfs upon the river face, extending from the Lachine Canal to Hochelaga, {vide Plan No. 1), open to the river, and submerged in the winter by water and i^e. The total frontage in the Harbour at the close of the year 15 1876, as taken from the Eogineer'a Report, is as Wharfage for ships of 24 feet draft, - - ^o. 20 feet do., - - I>o. 10 to 20 feet do., - Lin. feot. - 6,562 - 1 1,357 - 5,265 The porfon of this wharfage devoted to general trade extends to the foot of the Commissionera' Wlfarf and mca snrea 6,650 feet. The total extent of the wht £ , J ; Xhe Allan L,ne oceupy„,g Queen's Basin and Wellington P-er, and aocord.ng to the Superintendent of that ComXr 1ft, T ."^^PP-'^-) ->'>'0"gl. Laving 900 feet' of wharfage, only 735 feet of this is available, Ld is snp- m length. The Dominion Line have the Merchants' WKn f w:th only 550 feet of .Urfage; the Londo L oTcu ,y Princess Basin with 440 fp^f o^oM i - , „ occu])y «.oin witn ^*u teet available wharfao-p • nnA t^.^ Canada Sl.ippi„g Company have part of <^:^^^ Wharf *.th about 520 feet-in all abont 2,500 feet wMlst uent! :;r "r"^ '"^"^^^^^ ^^ the Uent ;;' t ments of these steam vessels accordinrr tn fi • , should be at least double that le" th ^ '" ""' "'"""''' in JttssT"' "' "'"''''^' "PFopriated to deep sea sail- ^^niTsC^crJd^S^rv- Ba.n. lately deepened, .S\er4ra!?SZ ir liiH 16 6,390 feet. This ia thu whole of the available space for deep sea sailing vessels engaged in general trade, and much of it is used for the discharge of coal, hay, sand, brick, lumber, and wood, as well as by market boats. Further down the river there are about 7,500 feet at which deep sea vessels are accommodated for the discharge of coal, rails, lumber, and other goods. The Richelieu Pier and Bonsecours Pier accommodate tho river steamers, giving together about 1,000 feet. The construction of the wharf along one side of Windmill Basin, is far advanced, and is partly appropriated for the discharge of coal. This wharf will be nearly 3,000 feet long when completed. The wharfs above described occupy the whole river frontage of the city, and under the present system there are no further means of extending the Harbour accommo- dation. CLIMATIC DIFFICULTIES. The climatic difficulties to be contended against are of a serious character. The River St. Lawrence at Montreal is annually exposed to the choking of its channel by ice, and the consequent rising of the water; to which may be added the phenomena called ice-shoves. The late Sir William Logan, provincial geologist, made an exhaustive inquiry into this important question, and submitted to the Geological Society of London, an inter- esting description of the winter phenomena, this is of sufficient interest to be reproduced at the present time. {Vide Appendix, page 191.) 17 Owing to the wharfs being annually submerged and exposed to the ice phenomena, no permanent buildings have been erected on them. Temporary sheds are placed on some of them in spring, but these are removed at the close of the season. THE PROPOSED SCHEME. • We have carefully weighed the evidence furnished us by citizens of Montreal engaged in trade, shipping and in rail- way operations (vide Appendix), we have considered all in- formation obtained from other sources; have also given due regard to all points of importance brought under our notice, and have matured a general scheme of improve- ment which in our judgment is best designed to meet the case under consideration. The Harbour in its present state is shown in Plan No. 1. The projected Plan of the Harbour in its completed form is shewn in Plan No. 2, and with some modifications in Plan No. 7, and may thus be generally described. 1. It is proposed to form what may be termed a "trunk wharf" of ample breadth, from the shore near the Custom House, across the present channel and shoal to a point about 2000 feet out in the river. From the trunk it is proposed to construct commodious branch piers on each side, as shewn on the plan. The breadth of the trunk wharf is proposed to be 300 feet, and the breadth of each of the branch wharfs on the down-river side 130 feet, and those on the up-river side 120 feet. The breadth of the water spaces on the down-river side is designed to be 320 feet, and those on the up-river side 300 feet. These dimensions allow for the largest steamers and sailing vessels lying upon each side of the basin, with elevators and barges to each ship, and a free space between for vessels to pass. Vessels will, as at present, discharge upon the wharfs on the one side, and take in grain from the elevators and barges on the other side. 2. It is proposed to form a new channel from the deep water of the river to that portion of the Harbour between the proposed trunk wharf and the entrance to the canal. This channel in the first place to be formed simply of width enough to allow of the passage of vessels from the river to the canal and upper part of the Harbour, and, on completion of the proposed trunk and branch wharfs, to be widened out into a large basin. 3. It is proposed to remove a shoal extending in front of St. Helen's Island, opposite Victoria Pier, in order to obtain the fullest width to the deep water of the river at this point, with the view of properly directing and reducing the current in the vicinity of the space where the new Harb'^ur works are projected. In order still further to diminish the current, it is suggested that St. Lambert's Wharf, as well as all loose rocks and boulders in the river east of St. Helen's Island, be removed. 4. It is proposed to form a continuous breakwater from the western abutment of the Victoria Bridge on the line shown on the plan, A portion of the breakwater to correspond in height with the high level works here- after referred to. This breakwater is designed to serve two purposes : — Firstly ^ to secure still water in the space m where the new wharfs are laid out, so that vessels may be taken in and out of berth without difficulty, and grain barges and floating elevators may be moved to and fro and used in any of the basins with perfect freedom. Secondly, to prevent ice-shoves injuriously aff'ecting the shipping that may winter in the high level basin, or the buildings or other works that may be constructed. The first object is of primary importance, and may be secured by carrying the work a few feet above summer water level. Th^ second object wouVl call for a heavy expenditure, but its necessity may be considered more remote. The extremity of this breakwater would have quays formed on the inside facing the basin, with rail tracks led down from the Grand Trunk Railway, and standage room for waggons; this wharf may bo used for coal, iron, and other goods generally requiring railway transport. 5. It is proposed to complete the new basin in front of IMill Street, in the position already arranged by the Com- missioners, the construction of the wharf on one side being now far advanced. G. It is proposed to widen Commissioners' Street by moving out and extending the revetment wall, and to make provision outside of this wall for a double track railway along the whole extent of the city front. The latter to be bridged over at convenient points for cart traffic between the city and the wharfs, to be connected with all the railway lines entering the city, and kept ex- clusively for traffic, and not for standage. The pro- posed railway should be the property of and under the control of the Commissioners, and open to all the rail- 20 way companies at certain fixed rates. It is further proposed to provide for access to all the new piers by branch lines of railway, and for cart traffic by broad roads and ramps with easy gradients. In connection with the improvements along Commissioners' Street, we would sug- gest that all the sewer outlets into the Harbour should be closed, and one main intercepting sewer be carried behind the revetment wall and discharged at some point below the Harbour, where the sewage would be constantly re- moved by the current of the river. 7. It is proposed to lay out the shallow water space lying between the breakwater and Windmill Wharf for large floating basins and other works, a modification of the scheme of hydraulic works projected by the Chairman of the Commissioners some years ago. It is proposed to elevate these works entirely above the highest winter level of the river in order to avoid the difficulties insepar- able from submergence. It is proposed to construct twin locks of sufficient size to admit from the outer harbour the largest ocean steamers and from the Lachine Canal the largest class of vessels that navigate the inland waters. It is also designed to provide sites for graving and slip docks. The high level works would admit of ships wintering and repairing ; they would aflFord ample space for grain- houses, mills, and manufactories, all accessible by railway, by canal, and by sea-going ships. Permanent buildings for any purpose might be erected wherever required, as the ice-shoves — the only danger to be apprehended — would be arrested at a safe distance and rendered harmless. With this object in view, it is proposed to carry up the break- 21 water, to a sufficient height by a continuous sloping face, or on a continuous line to a certain height, then to crown it with detached ice-breakers. The protective works sug- gested might, indeed, be carried along the low level portion of the breakwater to its extremity, as shown on the General Plan, and thus afford effectual [)rotcction from ice-shoves to part of the harbour and the front of the city now exposed. While we are satisfied as to the great propriety of looking forward to the establishment of high level works, and now recommend the selection of the proposed site as in every respect eligible for them, it is impossible at this stage to define in detail precisely what they should be. Their char- acter and proportions must to some extent be governed by the nature and extent of the trade which tb^) enterprise of Montreal Lopes to develop, or by the trafhc which in future years may be attracted to the port. All that we can now do on this head in order to comply with our instructions, is to offer general suggestions, and leave details to be worked out when more data are obtained. Plan No. 2 shows one mode by which the high level works might be carried out. In this a large single basin is projected, connected by locks with the outer harbour, and also with the Lachine Canal ; ample space being provided for mills, granaries, elevators, &c. Plan No. 7 is another modification of the same general scheme. In this there are two basins ; one on the same level as that proposed for the basin in Plan No. 2 ; the other, which may be called the "barge" basin (intervening between the first and "Windmill Basin) on the same water level as the Lachine Canal. The upper or bargo basin would be nsed entirely by barges and 22 canal craft, and around its sides mills, granaries, elevators, and other works would find eligible sites. The combination of basins herein alluded to would allow canal boats to trans- fer cargoes from the barge basin on the one side, while ocean ships in the half high level basin and in Windmill Basin would deliver and receive cargoes on the other side. PROGRESSIVE CONSTRUCTION. Generally the scheme of improvements submitted con- templates adapting to the fullest extent possible, for the purposes of a Harbour, the whole water space oppo- site Montreal, without unduly interfering with the main channel of the River St. Lawrence; it is, at the same time designed, so as to disturb as little as may be, and make the utmost use of, existing works. The scheme likewise keeps prominently in view and makes due pro- vision for a progressive construction to meet the gradually increasing demands of traffic. To fulfil these objects the plan may be carried into execution in the order shown on the accompanying Diagrams (Nos. 3, 4, 5, and 6) ; but the order of sequence in which diflPerent portions of the work should be constructed can, of course, be varied to meet such circumstances as the requirements of trade may develop in future years. Before commencing any of the structural works pro- posed, it will be necessary to dredge a new channel of access to the upper part of the existing Harbour and to the Lachiiie Canal. Until this channel is formed of suffi- cient width to allow the passage of large vessels no works can be commenced which will in any way break up the communication by the present channel. 23 An early stage of the work Is shown on Plan No. 3. The outer line of the hrcakwater on the shoal ground from Victoria Bridge abutr.'ont is shewn to be carried out to the 6 feet water line. The preliminary dredging of the new channel, as well as of the shoal on the west side of St. Helen's Island, is indicated. The external work of the first long branch wharf, in order to provide deposit space for dredged material, is also shown. The new channel being sufficiently advanced to allow the passage of large steamers to that part of the Harbour adjoining the canal entrance, the trunk wharf may at this stage be proceeded with, and the ramps leading to it formed; Plan No. 4 shews its commcncf^nient, together with the completion of the first lower and two upper branch wharfs. The old channel being closed ^y the trunk wharf, rail tracks may now be carried to these branch wharfs, and as construction i^roceeds to other branches, they may be occupied by extensions of the rail track as rapidly as completed. This plan shows also progress in dredging operations, as well as the completion of the range of face-work from near Victoria Bridge alonor tlie entire line of the breakwater, and the formation of the inner face-work en<^losing the low level portions of these quayngineers : The foUoAvung resolution was adopted by the Harbor Commissioners, on the 5th May, 1875 :— ' « -ll T^^'" ^'^^ ''^ ^^^ "'"^^"^ ""'""''^y ^'"'''^ '"^ "«^ «"««" to deal at once ^^ w,th the important subject of Harbor improvements on a comprehensive scale ^^ m order to meet the requirements of the enlarged channel to Quebec, and the ^^ future growth of the commerce of the Country, it is decided to refer the whole ''Corttlerror"™'''''"''''"'''""'^ ""^ *^''' '"^'"'''■' ^^""""^"'^^ ^0^ a final The following statement is now submitted for your infomation and guidance : Tho iidviintageous commercial position occupied by the City of Montroiil, situated at tho foot of the system of internal comnumications with the western country, tributary to the (^reat lakes, has, for many years past, made its harbour accommodation and the iin])rovement of the rivsr below, ([uestions of greivt pub- lic interest. In 1843, tiie (Joveinment of (Janaila coinmoiiceil tho deepening of tho Channel between Montreal and Quebec, especially at Lake St. Peter, where at low water there was only 1 1 feet, and the navigation restricted to vessels of 350 tons burthen or less. From various causes, however, the work made little progress, till in the year IS.ll, an act was passod giving power to the Harbor Commissioners of Montreal to carry it on, and under their control a channel has been completed throughout, having not less than 20 feet depth at low water, and 300 feet width at bottom. The Commissioners have dredged and deepL-ncd tho harbor to meet this improvement, but it has long been apparent that tho conunerce of tho coun- try would demand contimied enlargement of this great channel to the sea, and that we must look forward to the provisions of much greater and more varied ac- commodation in our hai bor for the trade we control, as well as that we desire to attract. Much public discussion has occured, aud gieat differences of opinion are known to exist on this subject, whicii has been already examinetl by eminent engineers, among whom may be mentioned Messrs. C. 3 Gzowski and T. C. Keefer, in 1851, Messrs. McAipiuo, Ciiild and Kirkwood, in 1357, and John Tiautwiuo, Esq., of Philadelphia, in 1&56 ; also by Mr. Sippell, iir. Legge, and others, whoso reports will be placed at your disposal. Tho Commissioners would hero draw your attention to the rapidly-increasing trade of this continent, esj)ecially of Western Canada and the Western United States. The lapidity of this increase in the last twenty -five years has made the then constructed canals in the United States s.nd Canada utterly incompetent to meet the wants of even tho present trade, hence their enlargement now, both in the United States and Canada, has become a necessity. In 1838, only 78 bushels of grain were shipped from Chicago and Lake Michigan ; while in last year, from that lake alone, the exports of cereal (without taking in provisions), were 123,- 000,000 bushels. In 1846 the value of the imports and exports to and fiom Montreal was $10,099,180, while last year they amounted to $65,808,448. In 1854, the tonnage, arriving at the Port of Montreal from sea, was 72,305, while last year it amounted to 423,423 tons. In 1861, the tonnagp coming into the port of Montreal locally, but not from sea, was 532,224, while last year it was 956,837. The revenues of the port from harbor dues, in 1854, weie $64,000, while last year they were $280,021, collected. These facts are mentioned to show the increase in the past, and there is no reason to believe that tho increase in the next twenty-five years will not be in proportion, esjjerially when it is considered that the northwestern territory of Britiph Ami'rira, on the Saskatchewan and other rivers, is equal in extent to the whole of the United States east of the Mis- sissippi River, and nearly all tit for settlement. The St. Lawrence is also the natural outlet for the western and south-western United States, and the Port of Montreal is 120 niilrs nearer to ports on the upper lakes, than any of the sea ports on this continent. The distance from Chicago or from any otlier lake port to Liverpool is 480 miles less f /V/ Montreal than vi/i the Port of New York; and when the proposed railway is completed from Montreal throufih the valley of the Ottawa, and a hridi^e erected at Sault Ste. Marie, at the outlet of Lake Superior, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and other northern states, wil be connected with Mont- real as a sea port nOO miles less distant than with any other sea port on the At- lantic. To these facts the commissioners would direct your attention, as they seem to warrant the most liberal expenditure for creating facilities i** this natural point of transhipment. Having briefly referred to the history and statistical position of the ques- tion, it now remains to deal with existing circumstances and the causes which at the present time have induced the Commissioners t'> ask j'our advice. By an Act of the Canadian Parliament, passed in 1873, the Commissioners Svre empowered to continue the deepening of the navigable channel between Mon- treal and Quebec, and they have since entered vigorously upon the work. They purpose co'rpleting a channel of twenty-two feet within three years, and there can be no doubt that within reasonable limits the work of im]>rnvcmrnt will be continuous, as provision must be made for the largest class of vessels employed in general commerce. Up to the present time our harbour works have been carried foiward without any harmony of design, but the necessity of some comprehensive plan ia now fully realized by the Commissioners and the public. Svich a plan it is now desired to prepare and adopt. The following consi- derations respecting it are placed before you : — 1st. The Commissioners desire to make the utmost use of the space occnpied by the existing harbour works in front of the city, upon which a very large ex- penditure has been made, and where the principal trade is already located. 2nd. The plan should be, if possible, progressive, so that it can be taken up by sections, be capable of easy extension, and rapidly available for use and revenue. 3rd. The occupation of the Harbour may be thus described : — (1st.) Ocean steam traffic, requiring permanent locations in the most con- venient positions to the city, for the distribution of general cargo. r J (2nd.) Large clipper ships, engaged in the same trade. (3rd.) River craft, of light draught, but requiring favoraI)le locations for passengeis and miscellaneous traffic. (4th.) River craft with city supjjlies of less value,— wood, hay, «&c. (5th.) Ocean vessels with coal, rails, &c., for city use and transport west- ward. (6th.) The lumber trade, requiring large wharf surface, as well as accommo- dation for easy transfer from light craft to larger vessels. This business can be loca .1 iit any point within reasonable distance. (7th.) The Giand Trunk Railway has already tracks laid along the harbour liuiitage, and two other lines of railway desire access to the wharves. The ques- tion 1 f raiiwiiy connection must, therefore, be considered, as well as the increas- ing demand for wharf sjiace in cartage traffic, all which point to wide thorough- fares along the whole front of the city as soon as practicable, and in this connec- tion it should be borne in mind, that a J accommodation secured on the north tide of the harbour is greatly more valuable than any to be obtained on the south Bide. (8th.) The transfer of all the great inland traffic, to be exported by sea, is effected here, and requires free movement froni the mouth of the canal to all parts of the harbour. The rapidity of the current and rising of the river, upon the close of naviga- tion, covering our entire works with ice and water to the depth of many feet, are among the natural disadvantages that will engage your attention. Any scheme that would .secure a high level harbour for a p irtion of our trade, and a graving dock for repairs, would be looked upon with great favor as providing for a difficulty acknowledged by all, but hitherto in no way attempted to be over- come. In couf'lusion, the Commissioners draw your attention to the fact that the whole system of Canals above Montreal is now undergoing enlargement, while extensive railway projects are determined upon, connecting this point more com- pletely and advantageously with the Great West. In their opinion the future progress of Montreal will be very rapid, and the trade of the St. Lawrence attain dimensions which it will tax our utmost cai^acity to accommodate, while this condition of affairs may be expected to come upon us so quickly that the time of action had now cone and our preparations can be no longer prudently deferred. The Commissioners oiWr no opinion upon any of the schemes for Harbour improvement already proposed. They desire to leave you at full liberty to investigate the whole subject, and to obtain information Irom every available source. In this they will retif'er you every assistance ia their and power, they invite the co-operation of al! interested in tlie (question to the same enil. Mr. Kennedy, Chief Engineer to the Tiust, has an extensive icnowledge of the Harbour and the localities around it, and he has been instructed by the Com- missioners to aid you in every way towards the prosecution of your important work. The Bourd then met, and appointed Mr. Robert Bruce Bkll Chairman, and Mr. "VVii-ham T. Olive Secretary, and gave notice, by a Ivertisement, inviting parties having information or suggestions to submit their views, cither in writing oj- verbally, and thei eafter met in the Harbour Commissioners' Otfice, on October (Jtb, at Twelve o'clock, when the following parties gave testimony : — Mr. HENSIIAW. Member of Council, Board of Trade, rejjrosenting the Coal Trade. Up to within a very few years ])ast, the coal trade of our port was comparntivrly of very insignificant proportions ; but year by year it lias beeii extended until now it has readied alnioKt gigantie figures, from tlie fact tliat the forests, witliiii a radius of 200 miles of Montreal, having been depleted of wood, and tlio \:iri(>us Itailway Companies liaving to loolv to the coal supply for means of locomotion. Tlic presumption is tliat froii. 200,000 tons, it will jiroliably rcaeli, witliiii a very short time, at least three-quarters of a million tons per amium. l^p to the jiresent time, scarcely any accommodation for this great trade has been sui)pli((I. We find the wliarves, to a very large extent, encumbered by lumber, wliieb iK'cessaiily occupies a very large amount of room. This coal trade will have to be accommodated somewhere ; but, of course, it is not my business to point out any particular locality ; yet it seems to me the extens'on of the new wharf at Wind Mill Point, or Komewhere in that direction, is the spot — provided, of course, it is sufHciently large, uiid if the lumber trade is removed to some other plaet^ where there is more room. At the present time, the accommodation is inadequate for the trade, and you can easily see that the inconvenience becomes greater from year to year. [A map of the harbour was produced, at the suggestion of the (!liair:nan.] Mil. HENHHAW continued. — I understand there is to be very mmb larger accommodation hero (Windmill Point Wliaifi; yet, notwithstanding its very limited space at present, a large amount of coal has been landed this year upon that wliaif, perhaps 50,000 tons, but owing to the public works going on, its almost immediate removal wab imperative, and (hu proccbs of doing so by carls was not only slow but ' } 8 expciiBivo. On Commissioners Wharf tliere has been over 60,000 tons deposited. Windmill Point has been almost exclusively devoted to coal, but this appears to be the only point devoted to it at present, and it is wholly inadociuate, so far as room goes. All down here (])ointing to the niaj)) the lumber encumbers the wharves, say from the Bonsecours Market to the east end of the Uc>minissioner.s Wharf. If the lumber trade could be removed to some point below the western extremity of Com- missioners Wharf, it would afford relief. Q. I Understand you would like the whole of the lumber trade removed from Commissioners Wharf? A. Yes, to some place below, Q. And also from the east ? A. To have no lumber trade between Windmill Point and some point below Commissioners Wharf. Q. In fact, to have the lumber trade excluded from that district? A. Yes. MR. HENSHAW continued — The simple object I had in view in coming here was to state the inadequacy of the present facilities, not to suggest harbour improve- ments. Q. Can you tell us what accommodation you have at present; what front of wharfage you hav ' A. I could not say ; I don't know what the frontage of the Commissioners wharf is. Q. You have referred to the quantity of coal discharged on Commissioners wharf? A. It is discharged at various places. The Commissioners wharf is not wholly occupied with the discharge of coal. A do^sen or so of cargoes of railway iron and pig iron are discharged there. It would accommodate a largo amount of coal if it was used exclusively for that purpose. Q. How much, in your opinion, do you consider is necessary, in addition to what you have now. Tell us what accommodation you have now, and what you ought to have ? A. If we had Commissioners wharf entirely with Wind-mill Point, we should have enough. Q. How many places intermediate ? A. Oh ! none unles-; for an occasional cargo. Q. Wind-mill Point is about 1,800 feet; can you give an impression what will accommodate the trade for a few years; how many feet of frontage ? I will put it in another form. Ground has been assigned to different partirs in connection with the coal trade ; for instance, 150 or 200 feet frontage ; can you tell us how much coal will pass over 200 feet of wharf frontage. Suppose you had 200 feet, ho'v much coal business could you do upon that frontage ? W. A. That is a difficult question, wliich I could not answer without some considera- tion. Q From your experience ? ' . ' ■ A. I have had this experience in the confined space on Commissioners Wharf ; we have liad six or eight thousand tons at a time and then we have had to move to this point at immense delay and addiiionnl expense in eartage ; the only two places where we can discharge are Cummissionc is Wliarf and Wind Mill Point. Q. Do j'ou know the particular condition of the wharf ? A. For the accommodation of the Grand Trunk Railway they were allowed to erect dumps, and there we dumj) the coal and the cars carry it off. Q. You were allowed three or four hundred feet? A. Yes. Q. Besides Wind Mill Point? A. Besides AVind Mill Point. Q. Was that all you had, (>xcept Wind Mill Point ? A. That is all we had. Q. Was that for the whole of the coal trade? A. No, a large amount of coal was unloaded at other wharves and discharged into carts ; we can discharge our vessels in half the .ime by dumping the coal on a place set apart for it. Q. What we want to know is the accommodation you now have, and what you think you oiight to have to accommodate the trade at th(^ p ■es(nit time? A. There is no actual accommodation set aside for us ; we go in and take chance. It there is not room to get in to unload, we have to move to iuiother pait of the harbour. Q. What is the length of wharfage on Wind Mill Point? A. Two ships' lengths here and three ships' lengths on the south side — about 600 teet. Q. Then you have about 1,000 feet altogether ? A. Yes. Q. And what depth ? A. Th<. depth cannot bo over 200 feet at Commissioners' Wharf; it is very much Ics at Windmill Point. We just put coal on the wharf through sufferance ; the Harbour Master or Government Engineer may order it to be moved at any time. Q. Do you say the lumber should bo moved from here (place indica*:d) to Wind- mill Point? A. No, sir ; down here. I hazard the suggestion, without encroaching on any plans, that if a wharf was constructed from some point near the Grand Trunk Railway bridge down over the shoals immediately opposite here, thus enabling the Grand Trunk to go down with their ears — the quantity they will probably receive, 200,000 tons — it will relieve these wharves of an enormous quantity. There cars would go i|:-.i 10 down without Interfering with other wharves — say from some point along down here- from the shoal op])OHite the town. Q. Does the Grand Trunk Railway take much away from Montreal? A. Yes ; the Grand Trunk Railway have taken away 60,000 trtns themselves- The city requires about 150,000 tons. Q. Thtm about 1,000 feet of accommodation is sufficient for 200,000 tons of coal ? A. That is to have it removed as fast as possible. Q. Where does all tliat coal go ? A. It is for the town. The coal for the Grand Trunk on Commissioners Wharf is carried to Brockville, etc., westward. Q. The Grand Trunk Railway takes it from Commissioners Wharf? A. They take it from there for points in Upper Canada. Q. Is there a depot for coal merchants in that direction? — where do they cart it to ? A. They distribute it to different parts of the town. Q. If you had uninterrupted use of 1,000 feet, would it be sufficient for trade at the present day ? A. With Wind Mill Point. Q. Would that be sufficient or would you require more ? A. Require that, and some room here at Wind Mill Point, Q. Could you reduce it to space or frontage ? t A. If we had 1,500 feet frontage I think it would be about sufficient. Q. That would accommodate the present coal trade. Would it be any advantage to have that frontage on a level with tlie Lachine Canal or any part of it ? A. It would decidedly, because coal is brought here and disciiarged from ships into barges for Ottawa. I brought my ships up here, barges came through the canal • and the ships discharged. j^ Q. What tonnage ? A. I have had this year ships drawing 18 feet 6. Q. Many of that draft ? A. Oh yes ; a good many. There are very few sea-going vessels coming here drawing less than 18 feet. Q. Would it be a great convenience to have the means of raising these ships to the upper level ? A. Oh, no. You maan raising in the lock ? Q. Yes, sir? A. 1 don't think there would be any good in that ; the barges come down tlic canal. Q. That is another question. Will it afford accommodation to the trade to have storage room on a level with the canal ? A. It wuuld bu aucommodatioD, but I have ucvcr thought of thai myself. V_, 11 Q. The object of it would be to Rave liandlhiK? A. There would 1)0 no handling when discharged into liarges. The barge comes alongside the sea going ship and the sliip discharges into it. Q. For the use of Montreal would it be any advantage ? A. I think not ; there would be no advantage so far as I can sec. Q. Will these basins that the canal ]peoi)le are making just now, give any accommodation to your trade ; I understand they are making locks 217 feet long) 19 feet on sill ? A. Of course, that would be great accommodation. Q. You see, we war i; to know what these basins are for ; what trade they will be occupied by ; I presume when making such a iiasin for tlu^ canal, they intended it for ocean vessels of 18 feet draught, that would go up and discharge into barges to go up the canal ? A. That, no doubt, will be of great service; I was not aware until this moment that the entrance into the canal was to be 18 feet; of course that would be a very great improvement to the coal trade. Q. These locks are not being made for the purpose of locking vessels uj) the canal, but to take them into the basins to discharge into vessels that go into the canal ; so if that was the case, would not your trade be accommodated as far as what goes up the canal ? A. It would not, because they could be discharged here in the harbour anywhere at less expense ; but, if the Grand Trunk Railway had a line nni there, and their coals deposited in that direction, it would be more economical, perhaps, for the vessels to go up ; but, as far as discharging into barges to go up the country, it could be just as well done in the harbour as anywhere. Q. They have now a certain draught ; the greatest i.s limited by the accommoda- tion of the harbour. Would it be more profitable to employ larger vessels than are now employed ? A. I think not, because a vessel carryin.^ 1,500 tons, is quite as large as there is any necessity for, because coal becomes di teriorated in value and appearance in these great cargoes ; smaller cargoes turn out in I)etter condition. Q. Then you don't require vessels oi more than 18 feet draught. A. No, sir. About that, or 18 feet 6 inches. ^ Q. Could you show us any official document showing the size of vessels coming into the harbour ? . A. I can do so. [From the opening of navigation this year to the first week of October, there was a total of 123 vessels, steam and sail, entered at this port with coals; these vessels rangea in draught of water from 22 feet down to 16 feet. Of this number 85 were from our Lower Port coal mines, and 38 were from Ports in Great Britain. I have not takea accouut of small cruft carrying coals from Pictou to Moutreal, the aggro* i! u J 12 gate of which, however, is very consiclorable in tonnage. I believe that I am quite within bounds wlicn I say tliat as many as 20 cdal vessels have been in port and dis- charging at one time, and liad to be accommodated at the wharves all the way along from Wind Mill point to t^ommissionc^rs wharf I have said that vessels drawing 22 feet have entered our liarbour, but tliis could only be done during a very short period in early Spring ; but the great bulk of business in shipping is during the low summer level of tlie river. In Miv>, June and July, 14 English coal ships arrived, while in August and Scjjtember, 24 entered i)()rt.] Q. I would like to enquire into the possible increase of trade, &c. Can you form any estimate as to the percentage of increase. In course of ten years will it be doubled, or what? A. I tliink in the next ten years, the receipts of coal will be three quarters of a million tons. It is becoming larger every year. Q. In ten years from now, it will be four times tl^! present quantity? A. Four times the present, I have no doubt. Q. Wliat is the present Kup|ily ? A. 400,000 tons. I am not taking into account American coal. American coal comes in here through tlie canals. , Q. Should not that be taken into account ? A. Probably. It comes in barges of 150 tons. They can run anywhere ; their draught is only three or four feet. Q. Is that trade liable to increase? ^' A. I don't think it is so liable to increase as the other — the other being so much cheaper ; still there will also be a large trade done in American Anthracite coal. Q. I would like to draw Mr. Henshaw's attention to this point. You think you require 1,500 feet frontage and a depth of 200 fi'ct to accommodate the present trade fairly ? A. Fairly, yes. , Q. In ten years, then, it would necessitate 6,000 feet for coal alone ? A. Not necessarily ; facilities might be jirovided for removing most of the coal Now, for instance, as I suggest — suppose the Grand 'I'runk put a track down here, and a wharf built on that shoal, opposite here, that would relieve the city entirely of some 100,000 tons tjmt would not touch the wharves at all. Q. It is a question of accommodation that concerns us chiefly. Would it require in ten years double ? A. Yes. . Q. 3,000 feet wharfage ? A. Yes. Q. You think 3,000 feet would accommodate the coal trade for ten years ? You say the G.T.R. take the largest quantity ? A. Not the largest ; they take a great quantity, ii 18 Q. Do you suppose the quantity taken by the Railway will increase ? A. Decid.dly. Q. How many tons do they take now ? A. The Grand Trunk Railway, between Upper and Lower Canada, take 125,000 tons. • . Q. Tliat is a great proportion of the present supply ? A. A great deal of that used in Western Canada comes from Ohio and Pennsyl- vania by railway. Q. I mean of the coal from Montreal? A. Well, tliey take 60,000 tons. Q. When the dumand increases, you think they will take four times 60,000 ? A. Tlicy will take twice, at any rate. Q. Where does tlie remainder of the coal go? A. To the manufacturers; some consume 14,000 tons a year, some 10,000; the local consumption of the city must amount to 70,000 or 80,000. Q. Then the rest is distributed from the city to other i)oints? A. Yes. Q. By canal and railroad ? A. Yes, and by carts. Q. Distributed in the city by carts? A. Yes. Q. Can you give me any idea of what the trade will be say twenty years hence ; do you think it will increase much over 800,000 tons ? A. Well, if we go on increasing in the future as in the past I should not be at all surprised. There is no limit in reason for increasing it if our forests become depleted. They have in many localities fairly become dei)loted in the twenty years past, and it becomes necessary to provide some scheme for the future supply. Q. You have no idea that it will double in tlie next ten years between the tenth and twentieth year ? A. Very probably it may. I should hardly like to hazard an opinion about that, but judging from the past, it is very likely to. Q. There is no way by which you can double the trade on the same frontage ? A. If we liad faeilitit'S for removing you may. For instance, if I take a con- tract for 30,000 or 40,000 tons of coal, as I have done already, I have to look out for tonnage. I might have ten or twenty ships in at the same time. If I could get them in as I wanted them, one ship at a time, it would be different, but when I have a large number in at once there is demurrage, so that I have to discharge somewhere. No very large (juantity is going forward in barges ; it is chiefly for local consump- tion. But the trade is gradually growing. For instance, four years ago the Grand Trunk used all wood. They cannot get it now. Tiiey use it at Richmond and Island Poud. They use it there, but it will be cut off in a short time, and then they will J M I 14 have to take coal. There is every reason to believe there will be a large increase of coal from year to year. Q. If that is the case, it may bo sent to different depots by canal ? A. It will all have to go by railway to the inland market. Point Levi is the only depot on tJie river. Q. What part of the G. T. R. is supplied from Montreal ? A. Prom Point Levi down they will probably use wood for years to come, but from Point Levi to Portland, .'ind Point Levi to Sariiia, coal. Q. What portions of tlic Grand Trunk Railway will find it beet to draw from Montreal ? A. All those districts this side of Kingston. These ire my opinions. Of course I have never c^onsulted the authorities of the Grand TruuK ilailway, and you might find if you s[)eak with Mr. Hiekson his views would perhaps be quite different to mine. Q. But what part would Montreal supply with coals? A. From Montreal tiiey woukl KUiii>ly coal to Island Pond, and West as far as Kingston. If tiiey had a depot at Point Levi to discharge coals it would be to their interest to go there to supply that district. Q. In order to ac(Mommodate the future coal trade of Montreal, can you form any idea what should be provided for the coal trade ? A. I should say for the next ten years give us a frontage of 1,500 feet and we could get along with it. Q. You said 3,000 feet in ten years. In 20 or 25 years would it be sufficient 7 A. I doubt it, unless, as I said before, facilities were given for taking it away from the wharf. Q. Do you think 4,000 feet would be a liberal provision? A I think 4,000 feet would b(^ a liberal provision. Mk. WINN, roprosentinif tho Iron Trudo. Had been an importer for a great number of years, and during that period \vatched carefully the interests of the inii)orters of goods. It was only in that ■capacity that ht; had any right to speak. A fi'w years ago, when the (luestion of laying rails on the wharf was considered, Mr. Brydges endeavoured to make out the best case he could, and i)ut it down in figures, and from them it was shown that the quantity of goods that went westward by rail, cx-sliips, was four i)er cent., and 96 per cent, went into the merchants' stonvhouses or to forwarders at canal ; it might be assumed from this, that of all goods imported in all times, three-fourths will have ^— *i* IS to be got into either merchants' °*ore8, or to bargcB for transhipment ; he thought that could Iw laid down as a preliminary principle ; it was well known that the interest on monies expended must be met by harbour dues ; if so large sums of mcmey were to be expended, as involved much increase in harbour dues, the loss of trade consequent thereon would take away all benefit ; next, he thought the improve- ments should be mad(^ gradually in ,ing with the existing revenue; the existing revenue should provide the interest on the money expended ; the questifin of cartage was one which should be taken note of ; it was foimd by experience that 't n all goods received, the after cost of cartage must be considered, and to meet ..« .v was indispensably necessary that all vessels engag(^d in the import trade shonld be within reasonable distance from the centre of the city ; this business centre was without doubt in the vicinity of the Custom House ; he laid it down that all experience had showti, and he bad noticed it from his own long experience, that any im])ortant havbor improvement to be beneficial to the city must be so made that importing vesK"ls bringing out general cargoes, which included three-fourths of the vessels arriving here, must be discharged within 2,000 feet of the Custom House ; be held that all vessels bringing general cargoes must be discharged within 2,000 feet of the Custom House, or in case of a press of busiucjss, within 3,000 feet, whi(^h s))ace could accommodat(! the greatest press they were ever likely to see ; the distance between Bonsecour Church and Princes street was where the accommodation for import- ing trade is needed, and there it ought to be, and at most should be within 3,000 feet of Custom House, and so distant only in case of a press of vessels ; it was of most vital importance to the city that such should be the location of the improvements. Mr. Winn next referred to the shoal in the river they were told it was a bed of rocks and could not be removed ; they had been told the same, with reference to the foundation for the Victoria Bridge ; they were told it was to rest on a bed of rocks, liut the contractors found the supposed rocks to be mere boulders, and they remo%'ed them ; they had been told foruKirly that rocks forbade deepening basins below St. Sulpice Street., but these also had been (easily removed ; hence, he thought they would have little difficulty in removing a large jiortion of that shoal so as to allow of piers being extended ; of course, the exact mode rested with the Commissioners ; a frontage of 2,000 feet could, by means of piers, Xw made to afford accommodation for the importation of general cargoes, and 3,000 feet amply sufficient for a press of vessels ; they had seen as many as 90 vessels here at a time ; thought that was the largest number that had ever been here ; and he thought if accommodation to the cxti'ut he bad indicated was provided, it would meet the wants of the tradi; for many years to come, and be a benefit liy having the whole com|)act within half-a-milo ; the necessity for this cannot be over- estimated. Mr. Winn next remarked that vessels bringing out general cargoes, usually included pig iron and other heavy goods, which, if they could be unloaded at one side of the pier, and loaded into barges at the other would be a matter of :i II f' I 18 groat importance to the trade, especially to the iron trade, which was at present his chief busincHK ; and the niciin8 of nnloadiiig in Hucha way wan of great advantage, for, instead of paying 60 or 70 cents a ton cartage, it could thereby be done for 6 or 7 cents; as regards lumber and coal, he was of opinion they should be at more distant points; the lumber trade shotild bi^ at the foot of the ciirrent; wharves at over 3,000 feet from Customs, were useless for general trade. Mr. Winn related a con- versation with Mr. Nish some years ago, who spoke of the then new wharves near the Military Hospital ; when 't told that genth'nian that, as to discharging goods away down there it would be cheaper for him to have his goods unloaded av Quebec and sent up, than to bo compelled to have them unloaded at the Military Basin ; the Military Basin was about 4,000 feet from the Custom House, and to unload there involved niucli labcnu', loss of time, and intwease in exp'jnse ; on one occasion when he had one cargo unloading at ^lill Street Wharf, and another at Militarj Basin, his man had to hiri' a horse to ride between the two, in order to properly superintend the unloading ; unless the vessels can be brought within three thousand feet of the Custom House, no improvenuMit would be of any service to the trade at all, and if possible, all wiiarves should be, within 2,000 feet of the Custom House, and the coal and lumber trade should be S'/nt elsewhere ; this was also apparent from the danger of tire ; he considered that Hochelaga and Isli^ Ronde were the very places for the lumber trade, with the improvements that the Canal Commissioners would make there ; he thought that it was perfectly clear that, in all time to come, vessels would beat every sizr, from 200 tons upwards to 4,000 tons ; and for the accommodation of these with tlie jjicrs cxt ondt'd, if half the wharves have 20 feet, and half 25 feet of water, it would be amply sufficient ; he looked upon ' that the main question was the centering of the import trade within the distance he had mentioned, 2,000 feet, or for press of vessels, 3,000 feet from the Custom House. Q. Your view is, there should be no accommodation t!.\cept by improvements on the river frotit, and in dee]) water ? A. Yes, sir. If it is possible to remove that shoal — if that can bo done— there is ample accommodation on the river front. The main point is, if you have 2,000 feet available space, or 3,000 f.'et for a press. Q. What class of vessels would this accommodate ? A. Ships from 200 tons upwards, needing almost about 20 feet water, and allow- ing 25 feet of water for large steamers. Q. That is your ideu to have that (the shoal) removed to make more room for approach to the piers ? A. Yes, sir. Q. I think I gather as your opinion, that provision should be made for all the trade of the city, except the coal and lumber trade, within about half a mile of the Custom House 7 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Is thcrp, in yonr opinion, KnflSricnt ucrommodation at tho pipscnt momrnt for tlie present tnulu, or Hhoiild it In: fxtcndcd ? A. At tlic prt'Hont time, then- is not sufficient. Q. Wimt additional wharfage would accommodate the trade ? A. Twenty per cent, more tlian tiiere iw lietween these two limits. Q. Question was asked whether Mr. Winn tho>i,t;lit tlu're was not neressitj' for storage (in the wharf? A. I think it is ni'cessary to have sheds for steamsliips. Q. Sheds? A. Only sliedfi. Q. Would you think it desirable to have permanent slnuls ? — would you think it advisable if it could be done? A. I think it would obstruct the traffic. Q. How is the grain stored at present? A. At present on the bauks of tlie canals. Q. In granaries? A. Yes, sir. Q. There is 11,300 feet at present; you think it should lie increased 20 pel- cent. ? A. Yes, sir. Q. That would nuike it l:!,r)00 feet : that you think shouhl be provided for the presi-nt ? A. I say 20 per cent, each year. Q. Then that would come to a great deal in twenty years ? A. The best scheme is that which gives increas»'d accomm goods could he stored previous to transhipping by railways or removal to stores, would it not he convenient to the trade to have such store houses ? Mr. Winn said one or two sudi stores might be convenient but having too many would not be convenient. Tlie st ninsliips bad slu'ds, but |)robiibly they would like them because they would be more substnrtial. With the trade with transient ships it was different. The goods must be deliveri'd and the captain settled with whilst in port. Q. So that a store house in that case would he no good at all ? A. No, sir ; not at all. Q. Stores would '.>!• valuable for regular lines? A. Yes, sir. I supposi' a permanent store would be liotter iirotiifion against firo and thi<'veR. Q. Will benefit result from the basins madi^ up the canal ? A. Yes, for general trade. Tiiese basins have been made by Government without s ifficient consultation with the trade or Harbour Commissioners. They will do some g >o(\n he kept on tin' wharf ? A. It is ex|)eeted that floods lie ri'Uiovi^d as sofin as landed, and the ship desires to ho relieved from respohsihility as soon as landed, l)Ut there are eonstant disj)uteR as to the liahility of th(! ship after the goods are l;>nded, and tlie want of spaci; to arrange the goods inereases tin' diliirulties in getting o-diviM v. Q. What you want is, that tin- goods he arrangi'd and kept together until yon can taki! delivery of them and not to have to taki' didivery of ont; package at a time? A. 'i'he receiving of the goods ncM'd not to he (hdayeil until the wlin-ing th from? A. Well sir, I am speaking as a merchant, not as an engineer. I presume you could get plenty of water from the canal, but I don't profess to say anything on that l)oint. Mr. Bell — As regards the i)osition of business. If a basin was made, what part of the river would you consider the most likely to meet the wants of the trade ? A. .Just opposite the city. Mr. Bell — In addition to that, suppose you wanted basin accommodation to be taken from the land or canal ? A. I don't think tln^re is any room on the land or in the canal. Any basin we get must he taken from the river. Mr. Fleming— I think you said that the provision for the trade of the harbour, if increased 25 per cent., would be ample for a year or two '; A. Yes, sir. I think an increase of 25 per cent i)er annum, during four snccessive years, would be ample ; if, for instance, we could double the present available wharfage space, from the mouth of th(! canal to tin- B(jnsecours Church, in the ne.xt four or five years -that is, if we could get space to discharge twice the number of vessels, — it would be ami)le accommodation for ten years to come. Mr. Fleming — Why fur years? A. At the end of fou or five years, I certainly would doubb^ it. T think provision should be made for an in^ rease, of not less than 20 i)er cent, per annum, so that the accommodation at the end '' five years will be double what it is at present. Mr. Fleming — Is not 20 per cent, wanted now? A. Yes; immediately; at once. _. . ■ Mr. Fleming — How much do you think it should be ten years hence ? a I I I y \" u A. I think nothing but the expeiiencc of the next ten years would justify any calculation for a succeudiug term of ten ;, cars more \ Mr. Fleming. — I know it must be conjecture. \ A. I doubt whether the continent of America is going to export, in future years, in a continuously increasing ratio. Its consuming power is steadily increasing, and the grain-producing regions are, year by year, getting more distant, and the trade going further west. I doubt whether the exporting business of the eastern pf li of the continent is going to increase in the next forty years as in tlie past forty years ; but I think it is the duty of the Harbour Commissioners to keep ahead of business. Mr. Bell — I understand you would protect these i iers from ice '( A. Yes, sir. Mr. Fleming — You hold more sanguine views than other gentlemen. They think the increase of 50 per cent., in the next ten years, will be ample ; you state that you think Jliere should be an increase of H)0 per cent, in four or five years? A. I do think so. Mr. Fleming — What do you think about ten years ? A. I think if we had double the accommodation at the end of five )'ears, that would probably suffice for the otlicr five. I think any plan should be progressive and economical. We don't want any gigantic scheme involving large expense and bringing in no revenue until it is finished. Mr. Bell — Do you think want of accdunnodation 'is driven much trade away? A. Certainly I do, and has cost Montreal a deal of money. Mr. Fleming — Assuming that the trade of Montreal increases, say double in ten years, can you say what it will increase in the following ten years? A. I am not so sanguine as my friends. I don't think it will increase in the the game ratio. Mr. Fleming — I liave got down — There is now 11,300 feet of wharfage. In your opinion, there ought to be 14,000 feet at once, and, in ten years, there should bo 30,000. What in twenty years ? A. I don't think the trade will again double itself. Mr. Fleming. — If it increases 100 per cent, in the first ten years, might it not increase 30 per cent, in the next ten ? A. Personally, I am not so sanguine of the continued increase of the shipping business of the country. Mr. Fleming. — Do you think it will increase at all after ten years? A. I should hope it would, but cannot give an idea of the extent of such increase. The two heavy exports are lumber and grain. The lumber is being depleted, and the grain trade is rapidly going more inland, and more inaccessible so far as M(jntreal is concerned Mr. Fleming — How is that trade carried on ? Do the barges como down to the harbour of Montreal and tranship to the ocean-going vessels ? 36 •m"^ Mr. AVatt explained, in answer to this question, that the grain from the inland ports was transferred to fanal craft at Kingston, and was lightered to Montreal ; nine-tentlis of tlie grain cargoes, so received, was transferred frtini the barges to the ocean-going vessels. This was a great convenience to tlie ocean-going vessels. Q Is it necessar}- for vessels to lie at the wharf to receive the grain? A. It is not necessary, except the sea vessel is discharging and loading at the same time. They cannot perfectly unload these vessels liefon^ partially loading, so th(^ two processes an^ carried on simultaneously, discharging the inward cargo on the wharf and loading with grain at the same time. The grain is transfei'red from the barge very rapidly -four or five thousand bushels an hour. Q. How long may these barges bo kept waiting ? A. That depends. If the tonnage is ready, the barge can get away lery ((uickly ; if it does not find tonnage awaiting it, the barge is delaj'ed, and becomes temporarily a warehouse. Mr. Fleming — Is there not a deal of detention ? A. There is, frequently. The barges are expressly used for that purpose ; they are floating warehouses, and can be kept for the accommodation of the owm^r of the grain. Mr. Bell — Does that not cause a want of barges at Kingston ? A. Yes, sometimes. Mr. Bell — Would it not he better to discharge into warehouses? A. I think it would prove too costly to discharge all gruin into warehouse. Such grain as is to be held in stock will probably he stored, but such as is destined for speedy shipment could nnu-c jirofltably be left in the lighter until the sea ves.sel was ready. This is the custom in New York. Mr. Bell — Yor ijanuot send a ship to the warehouse for grain ? A Not as at present arranged. Mr. Fleming — Do you think it would be an ailvantage to have provision made for taking ships up to the level of the Lachine Canal ? A. Oovernmeiit is providing such accommodation ; I think it will be of service. Q. Do you think warehouses on the wharves would be an advantage ? A. Yes, sir ; warehouses on the wharves would bi' a great advantage for a good deal of the import ami for all the t>xport traffic, but not for heavy goods, such as coals, rails or lumber. Mr. Fleming — Then you are of opinion that you should not have these heavy trades in the harbour » A. No; not to encumlier tli(^ harbour witli. Mr. Bell — These canal basins, as far as 1 0 tliat will be paid from here, there had to be paid 25 cents for wharf, which reduces it to $3.25. That sliows how closely calculations are made to any additional charge. If we make charges high, we divert our tr.ade. Witi; grain, in tlie same way, any person outside the trade will say : Why lie ten or liftiLii days with grain ? Why not discharge it into a warehouse? The man who has embarked in this trade, calculates to make one per cent., and he calculates it to be shipp :'d from the barge to the vessel. If it goes into store, the charges before it reaches the vessel will amount say, to two per cent,, so tliat he loses one per cent. A merchant in Liverpool telegraphs to New York and Montreal for wheat. If the man in Montreal is one cent higher than the man in New York, it goes to New York, and if he was to include storage it would Ite still worse. If wc went to the expense of going inti) warehouses, and had to sell out again, wv should ilestroy the trade. The gentlemen in the trade in Montreal hold it with a very frail grasp, and he has to reach out as far as Lake Michigan for his trade, competing so closely that a feather's weight will divert it sometimes. To my mind we cannot undertake anything that will involve a ver}' heavy tax upon the trade. I h(jj)e I make the i)()int clear. It is only those engaged in the trade that comprehend what a tender thing this trade is. It is pleasant to talk in after-dinner speeches abput the magnificent St. Lawrence, but it simply brings us what we reach out afU'r, and what the closest calculation will bring us by com))eting for, and l)y a sliglit mistake it would pass us. Q. How is it in New York '/ Uo tliey load from warehouses ? Mr. McLennan — Largely from canal boats ; the difi'errence in New York is, that it is a general trade ; the man that has a general trade shoves his cargo iu store, and keeps it until some one in the city, interi;lit to acrontnioclato thr luinbcr trade to thi; fulU'Ht extent. It in easily diverted ; it lias conic here liecausc they can do it chcaj-er tlian in IJoston. It givc« a good return and we can certainly afford to give it accoin- modation. Mr. McLennan further said, in this respect, that with additional accommodation there would be a corresponding increase in the trade. Mr. Bell — You do not see mudi advantage in raising tlie ocean vessels to a level with the Lachine Canal? Mr. McLennan — The question would he, witli ocean steamers, tliej will always seek the centre of the city for their points of discharge. Q. Would it he a disadvantage to have them going fiu'ther away ? Mr. McLennan. — The way I would answer that is, that this city husiness proper must monoi)olize the best portion r)f tiie harbour that is here within 2,000 or 3,000 feet. Another point worthy of consideration is that, in the volume of grain trade, a large number of vessels are brought out here to tak<' the n'turn cargo, and then accommodation could be at any point where you could get wnt(U- rot>m. Very many come with special cargoes and these you coulil accommodate a little outside when there is a crowd in the harbour. The point in my mind is, that you want to relievo the harbour of everything that you can set out.side, iind by so doing you accommodate the city trade to twice the extent it is accommodated now. Mr. Bell — ^Then the separate trades requiring separate accommodation are lumber, coals, and vessels taking return cargoes? Mr. McLennan —Yes, sir. If we increase the grain trade, there is a large volume of business of that des(ri[>tion that would come Jiere. Two years ago many chartered vessels came here, and the consc(iuence was t^mnagc; was cheaper. Mr. Bell— They do not absolutely re(iuire st^paratc accommodation ; but it would be just as well ? Mr. McLennan — Yes, sir ; and as a relief. Mr. Bell — I mean these trades can be taken out of the rest of the harbour and specially arranged for ? Mr. McLennan— I don't think of any other point. As to getting general cargoes to the high level, there would be no great advantage e-xcept protection in winter. On the question of a coal depot here, it has to be considered how much the Government will do in the canal. I have always held that the Government can do something in this respect better than the Harbour Commissioners can. I think for the west end coal and lumber trade, the Government can provide for accommodating it at less cost than the Harbour Commis.sioner8 can do within the harbour. Mr. Bell— By going up the canal basin and into the canal? Mr. McLennan— And yet there is that l.^O acres there. If we can utilize it, then you come to the question of conference, as to what extent the Government would bo 47 willing to supply us with water. I think tlicy would be willing to do it to A rcasonahic extent. It is a (iiiestion of Kupply. Tf yitu have two lockw there, 200 feet long and fifty fent wide, you take an enormous Hupply of water. Here is this slip (indicated), now in course of construction ; here, for instance, is the pier projected to run here, the question would ho whi^tluT there might he a high-level hasin there; with lock entering it, and the Q jrnment permit the supply of water to run down here. That would help to some extent, and perhaps we might have a dry dock, which is very much required. Mr. Bell— Would you have a basin of water here ? Mr. McLennan — Yes, sir. Mr. Bell — For water power ? Mr. McLennan— No ; I think if you come to a question of water power, the Government would not entertain it. Mr. Bell — There is another point that Mr. Watt spoke about. I did not under- stand what his views were. He said that vessels require to Ijc in still water, and he would like them locked in preference to lying on the river level, because there is a rise and fall ? Mr. McLennan — I don't see any reason for that ; the rise and fall is so gradual. I think he spoke in a general way. We hav(; a point liere, when you get down and place a vessel to receive grain, It is inconvenient to put the elevator and barge along- side, owing to the rapidity of the current. Mr. McLennan further said, that the moflc of extra accommodation must, of ne- cessity, be a progressive mode. Here (|)laee indicated) they might make a slip and pier, and so go on until the whole ofthes|)ace was utilized. And the same way be- low. If the same mode is adopted for the lumber trade —that you supply six or seven slijis and piers, and in the meantime go on increasing them as trade in- creases, Q. Is it best to have sea-going vessels on a level with the river or the Lachine Canal ? Mr. McLennan — I don't see the advantage, unless you circumscribe the point sjwken of. To get near the centre, you limit it to the principal wharves ; then you have the disadvantage of throwing the other wharf accommodation distant and inconven- ient of access to the city. I am speaking with reference to high-water basins here, and, I would ask, would you gain anything by involving such an enormous expense ? In answer to a (luestiim, Mr. McLennan .said : The people in the vicinity of Mon- arque Wharf say, that the current is nuich stronger now than it used to be. Some of the people remember sailing vessels having gone up the current. Q. Do you know if it was before the erection of St. Lamberts Wharf ? A. I fancy it would be before that. I am speaking generally. Q. Do you know what that wharf (St. Lambert's Wharf) is used for ? Mr. McLennan — It is very little use ; a ferry is run there. I m\ 48 Mr. Fleming — (.'ould it lie nmovecl without dctrii unl? Mr. McLennan — Yes, .sir. Mr. Flcniinff — Docs it In iong to the Conimissioners ? Mr. Mt'Lonnan — No, sir ; it Itrlonps to the (hanil Tniniv liailway. 5Ir. Fk'niing — Yon were .spcaiiing about raising the wiiarvi'b to a livi'I of tlie .street ? Mr. McLennan answered tliis question liy reference to Mr. Siiipell's plan. Mr. Fleming — "W'nat advantage is it to have vessels centered hi.'re (place indicated around new liasinsi 't Mr. McLennan — Well, we have not en< red Ujion the business yet; 1 am a little conservative, and 1 don't think it is worth reaching out. Mr. Fleming — Is there any particular advantage within the liarbour 'i Mr. McLennan — Nothing special in connection with our trade as a harbour ; I ai.i contining myself to the business feature of it ; tin' ship-building interest is an advan- tage to any place — same as the manufacturing ; but it is fairly a question of commerce ; graving docks come directly into the question before us. Mr. Fleming — We heard yesterday that flour could not be manufactured here for export to England ? Mr. McLennan — It is better to manufacture tlonr uiuler the influence of the consumer ; the men at Buffalo lio he- •< r and other placs, ri'ceive orders for a certain brand of flour, and get for it the full >irice, aiul dare not let down the quality ; it is always best to have the market for Hour as near the consumer as jjossible ; I'our deteriorates in (luality ; wheat doi's not. General Newton asked if that a])]ilied to ButValo. Mr. McLennan replied that they had an enormmis local trade. General Newton Oouid not Montreal get up the same thing ? Mr. McLennan We are not allowed ; our millers liave to make a unit'orm brand of tlour. A miller at Lockport, for instanci', getting a cargo of wheal, will make two- thirds of it tirst-class brand of flour, and eomiiete in the low(>r brands witli the reuiaindei', and sell it as lo\i' as lie likes ; it is an outlet for low grade of flour; we have no such market here, and that is t\w uade througlxnit the United States ; thoro is a difference of two dollars in each barrel of flour; there are some brands that will command two d(>llar.>, or two dollars and a half, and more for spring wh''at Hour, simply because of the rei)utation of th(> miller, and he keeps it up. General Newton — If tiii- trad'' was d(;veloped between Jloutrea! ,iiii! tl Western IStatcH, then yon could alford to go in and .uanufactin'i- flour ? Mr. McLennan. — It would change tht^ complexion of th ugs. 'i'heii I would say We want facilities now and we can pay (or them, i,(:c.iiuse from the expert tradssarily be trade in transit? Mr. McLennan -Yes, sir; and what we want are facilities for rapid trade. These merchants want to be able to do their trade rapidly. Mr. Bell — Do you think lockage would be an imi)rovement to rapid transit? Mr. McLennan— It would. Mr. Bell— Kiver steamers and general trade woi.ld be re(|uired to bo locked up and down 7 Mr. McLennan — [ would see this ■ .itter easily pro\ided for, if the Grand Trunk would be satistied to move from the centre of the wharves. Then ynn provide a large amotmt of accouiuiodation for city trade, an:' give other trades more room also. In answer to a ((Uistion with reference to the reveinies of the liarlMnn', looking to th ■ (Jovernment assuming the channel iiujirovennnits, Mr. McLem\aii said, that it would not lie saf<' to estimate on such assuni|)tion by 50 the Govfrnmcnt. There was danffi-r old! viitinp trade l)y tin' tarift'. If the Govern- ment would HSKiune the channel improvumentH, he would rcduet; the tariff and make it wharfa}i;e. He helieved there was a larf^c ainomit of trade pUKKed uk hecauKC of the dues, llv would adopt snuiU harliour dues. Mr. Fleming — If a voshcI passes throuf,'h th(^ harhotn-, ul(l he l)orne carefully in mind. 'I'jje Grand Trunk Company are subject to a great deal of competition now for Western Canada traffic, ami find it very difficult to hold it. It is going through by way of New Vork and lioston, through bills of lading are made and ttiis item of landing and ihanges here is important in the calculations of the trader. It wotdd be easy to extend the accommodation in the harbour, but tlie (|Uestioii of {'ost to the inijiorter and exjiorter should be borne in mind with reference to the trade of the country. Mr. Fleming -Did you mention, Mr. Hickscui, that your coal came in occ^an shi))s? 1 su[)poHu you get some in vessels from I'iitou '.' Mr. Hickson. -Yes ; we get a great <|uuiitity from I'i( tou and other ])laceK, but some; also from across the Atlantic. I believ(t the larger ships you get to cany, the {■heaj)or you get it. Mr. Fleming.— It was said here yesterday, by a gentleman, that it was not deni- rable to have vessels in the coal trade that wnuhl draw miu'e than about 18 fei^t of water. You are aware that the (Jovemnient are nuiking docks in the canal. Vessels drawing 18 fe(!t- of water would nach tlnse docks. Would not a coal yard there (indicated) benefit you V Mr. L.jkson, being shown the spot, said It would be a great ((jiivenience, and materially lessen the cost to us. Mr. Fleming 'I'he new docks contemplated would be close to your line of railway '; Mr. Ilickson I know the locality well. If coal is to be got up there, and access is to b(! obtained by rail, it will be a great convenien<,'e, and, as I said, Icsst^n the expense to the Company, who, in all i|uestioMs of acconuiiodation, look to see if it will he suitable for all times to come. The present re(|iiivenieiits of fJO.OOU tons will, in a few years, increase to 100,000, which takes a great dial of haiiilling in the short fieasons whi(,'h we have. It would be a great object for the Company, in getting their supply of coal finm the Lower I'lovim-es, to have storage room where engines could run to coal. Mr. Fhaning— Ik there any n^ason why it should not be got there? (s|iot indi- cated.) Mr. Hickson At low hive! you could not do it, nn account of ic(^ in winter. It must he at high level ; the handling of coal two or three times would become a verf serituiK item in using it. Mr. Fleming If you had a jihice win re engines could run down hikI "coal," there would bu only two hundlings? r I i?-i; I isSt % W » I 52 Mr. Hicknon- ¥<•,«. I Jiin very inii' Ij impri'Msid with tin- nrffssity of liftvinjj as flu'ft)) iiccoriiniodHtiiiii in tin; hiiiljour of Monticiil (is jxiHHiliie. In any KyHtfiri whidi may lie (i(|ii|it<'il, I tiiink, in the intiTcHt of Ijii' ((irrying trade of Ylir country, thi; work hiTii k)ioii1(| 1»; dfinc as clicaply as possilijc. 'J'lii'ri luis lij ^raiii Mr. Hickson It is a ilclnitculiji vessel oiif-dit to (ret to the elevators. iiit; hilt my opinion is that the discliiir^ing Mr, U.ll—V. iild spout frotn the cms to the warelifiiise, and from the ware- house to the oeeiill ship? Mr. Hickson It seems to me im elevator will have to he hiiilt at the lower part of the hiulHHir ; if th vi'ssels cull le aloiiLTSl de the wharf there iindi(,atedi, an elevator (;oiild 1)(- erected li<'ri' iQiiehec Harrai ks Wharf,, on the njiper ({round, and the {^rain taken out of the cars and spcpiiled down tci the vessid at the wharf. .Mr. Hickson, in answer to furtlier (|uestioiis respecting ;;rain hroii^ht by rail, sai■ I iitlinic down tracks close to where the vessels Mr. l''h'ininK — I'o you s 'c any s|)icial ohject in hriii;;infr ocean vei to tie rails at the level of the l.achine Canal ? Mr. Hjekson — Yes ; 1 tliink it ijiiite possihie t< ■t elevators there (placi inilicateii). The eonni'ction with the niils and the shippiuK as it is now, is, no douht, veiv inconvenient to the citizens, and causes much discontent. You know we run r>;] ovci' tlic ciiiiiil Idid^'c. VVi: got |ti:iini.sMii)ii til iiict it iil'ti r iiiik li tioiililc. Tlii; riiilH run throiiKli fi v, sir ; the propiT hvil of I'uinI St. (.'harh-s is the level of the (J. T. II., I)U^ I cannot say how much. You Kiiild not have storohoUKcs on the leve| of thf wharves referred to. Mr. Hell Yoti can have tln' storelioiises liy arching over and liuilding stores ahuv<;, or by putting them on pillais? Mr. Hickson- You wnuhl gnsitly increase tiic cost ol handling the tralMc t(i and frf)m tliem. Tliert; would he no ohjection to running down to one of the wharves at thJH point, 'i'here is a continual tight ahoiit glutting into the harhor now. General Newton (;p here, they would he out of youi way? Mr. Ifir'kwm- Yen, hut should we not haver to pass ovi'r some of the locks o'' cntiauics of the projected canal hasinw? Oiineral Newton No, sir; lure are the hasins of the picsenl canal. Here is your Viy Domiiuun Line of Steamships; ne.vt Princess Basin occnpie.l by London Line of Steam.diiijs; next the Kichelieu Pier, chiefly occupied i)y the Kiclielieu and Ontario Navi- 67 gation (JompMiy's Quebec Steanura ; next a l)oat basin; then Jaciiues Cartier Pier and Market Basin, tliis basin was tlredged to 20 feet two years ago, and cribs Slink to 20 feet along tlie East side of Jaciiues Cartier Pier and along the Nortli side, this is now occupied by a large class of sea-going vessels ; next the Bonsecours Pier, which was put d»wn in ten feet of water, the West side is occupied by the L'nion Navigation C'ompany's Quebec Steamers, the south end by the Laprarie Ferry Conipiiny, and the east side and all the Bonsecours Basin (which follows) is occupied by the market steamers ; next the Victoria jetty, occupied by wood, sand and brick barges ; next the Vic- toria Pier occupied by the largest class of sea-going vessels ; next the Millitary wharf, which has been occu])ied by lumber, wood, brick, sand and hay barges, but is ii(>w being renewed, and cribs sunK in 24 feet of water and the basin dre iged to that depth so as to accomuiodate the largest vessels that should come to the port ; next is the Commissioners wharf which is 1,250 fiet long, the west end is oc(!upied Ijy the Canada Shipping Company's Steamships, ami the remaining part by large vessels laden with railroad iron, coals, &c ; the next is the new basin built two years ago !J60 feet long, and dredged to 20 feet, not yet named ; the next is a new pier finished this year, it is 300 feet long al)out 150 feet wide and sunk in 24 feet water, not yet named ; next is a new basin finished this year 300 feet long and dredged to 24 feet, not yet named ; the next is Monarque street wharf, sunk in 10 feet, occupied l>y lur.iber and wood barges, and which is now extended down to Longueuil ferry wharf, in the same depth of water. From the L(,agueuil ferry wharf to Hochelaga the wharf has l)een extended and sunk in 24 feet water and occupied by vessels carrying coals and Inmber. From the Hoche- laga wharf to tlie wharf opposite lludon's Cotton Factory there is an open space of about 1,000 feet, and the wharf opposite the factv)iy is 155) feet, run- ning out from the shore, and 153 feet down the stream. Q. Do you think there is sufficient accomuiodation for the tratiic ? A. No, sir. Q. Would double the accommodation do for the present i A. Yes, sir ; never saw business so ilull as it has been the present season, Q. You say, to give jour shi|)ping sufhcieut accommodation, you should have double the ficcommodation you have at present? A. Yes, sir; that is my opinion. (J. Wiieu would it be necessary to incroiise that again ? A. I am of opinion that the trade will gro^v rapidly, and think a plan should be adopted so as the cxteusiou could go on as the increased trade required it. I S' :..''i 5H 'N'« i. Sri jniMiSS t think the scheme of the docks on the high level would be an excellent one, if not too costly. Q. That conteni))Iat('H ihc raising of sea-going vessels to the liigli level ? A. Certainly, but that would not accommodate the whole of them. Our trade U a peculiar one, aud reipiircs great space, as the grain comes into the har- bour in barges, and is then removed from the barges by floating elevators into sea-going vessels. Capt. Rudolf produced a plan, drawn by himself, which he explained, and continued : — The Island shoal is a great obstruction to har!;our improvements, and in my opinion should be reniovi-d at once, and the whole harbour I'rom Vic- toria Pier to Windmill Point should be cleared and dredged to 24 feet. Vessels could then come into port and anchor opposite the city until berthed. The wharves, from the Lachine Canal to Victoria Pier, along the front of the city, could be extended at any time v/ithout interfering with the present wharf ac- commodation, and vessels whose outward cargoes were altogether grain, could load as well in the stream as alongsiile the wharves. If a wharf was built 500 feet outside of Windmil! Point whatf up to Point St. Charles, and 200 feet wide, it would idford excellent accommodation for vessels with coals and railroad iron, and with that width of basin the largest vessels coulil swing at the upper end, and sail directly down the harbour, and if a breakwater was built from the outer end of the embankment of the Victoria Bridge down to the shoal of rocks that is almost always visible (about 5,000 feet), and l)uilt as high as the embank- ment at the Victoria Bridge, the harbaur would be free from current from the Victoria Pier to Point St. Charles, which would be a great advantage, and Point St. Charles made an excellent winter harbour. Q. 'I'hen I understand you would send all vessels with railroad iron and coals to Point St. Ciiarles ? A. I would send all vessels with railro.td iron for the west to that point, and all vessels with coals, excepting those that had coals for the factories, &c., &c., to the east end of the harbour, and small vessels with coals for the city Mr. Fleming -It strikes me the Victoria Pier runs too far out? A. I think not ; I don't think the current is any stronger at that point now than it was before the pier was built. The current strikes it about 200 feet from the lower end, passes round the lower end, and strikes the Commissioners whiuf about GOO feet from tl'c lower end, then downwards. Q. Where is the strongest current 'i A. T!ie strongest curntnt is in St. Mary'.-, rapid?, opposite the gaol. Q. Has the current increased or decreaseil i . velocity i A. I tlon't lind any difl'erence. 5l> Q. Tt is fldid, hv Home pooplc livin<,' about there, tliiit it lias inoreriaed ? A. I don't k'low liow tlii-y iisccrtiiiniid that. Q. Tney siiid siiiliiii^ vessels used to ;;o up with tlie easterly wind ? A.. So tliey do now ; I don't know by what means they aseertitin such things. I know the steamers that ply between this and Quebec do not find any difference. Q. Can you tell us how the ice acts ? A. The ice first forms in the basins opposite the city, as it grows colder, it forma on the river and moves down with the current and jams at the islands below Sorel and becomes stationary, tiist at that point, as the ice iiicieases and moves down il continually adds to that part that is stationary until tht river is completely blocktul up as far as tlw^ riiichino Ilapids. When the ice tirst stops at the islands below Sorel, and the river fills within, the writer gradually rises, and by tho time the ice reaches the Liichine Rapids the water is up to witliin a foot or two of the revetment wall and about {'•] feet over the wharves and sometimes over the revetment walls. It will then shove for a day or two, i)aek very clos^ely and become stationary, and in a day or two the water will gradually fall, it is then sufficiently strong for teams to cross. It generally reaches its lowest point about the midille of March. In IHti.j, on the l]rd A|)ril, the water was two feet over the revetment wall, and up to Custom House S- not take place at Mouton Island, or near S'. Mary's rapids, as St. Mary's rapids are not frozen over eight winters in ten. In six or eight days after the ice first begins to move, we have the river clear of ice as far as Sorel. The Richelieu River is open six or eight days before the St. Lawrence ice begins to move. Tljis, I think, is caused by the warm water coming down from Lake Champlain, t^. Wlien was King's Basin built ? A. The wharf now called the Island Wharf was originally an island, there was a jetty built in 1835 connecting the islands with the main shore, which now forms the King's Basin, that forms the starting point. At the conclusion, Capt. Rudolf furnished the Board with a detailed state- ment of tonnage, &c., &c. It is of record in his office. Mr. THOMAS WOEKMAN, M.P., of Fr(»tiu.\«iiam & Workman, Morc'hants. Mk. TIIOS. WORKMAN appeared befo"e the Comniittc" al tlnnr request. Mr. Bell. — We want to get all the infonnation you can give us. Mr. Workman. — In reference to the enlargement of the h.arbour, or any new plans? Mr. iiell- -Whatever you have to say about the harbour. V'ou know a great ileal about the watei ])ower ? Mr. Workman. — I kno\\»something .ibout the water power on the Lachine Canal. Mr. Flemhig. Our object is lo get o.s nxuch infonnatian as ])ossible, in order to discover the reiiuivements of the trade of Montreal, with a view to reconunending some mode to meet the present requirements as well as tlic future to some 'extent. We have got a deal of information from members of the Hoard of Trade, and we were told you could give us a good deal of inforinatiun particularly with regard to the water ^owcr ? mmmm. 61 Mr. Workman.-- I doubt it very much. I have a knowledge of the water power on the T^achiuf (Jarial, Frotliingham & Workman lieing lessees of water jjower at St. Paul's Lock. It is very regular there in summer, hut in winter it is intercepted by ice. We have there now, five or six factories. The amount of water has been very much increased of late years by the new supply lock at Lachine, and the intcrru|)tii)ii-< that formerly took ])lace at regular intervals have to a considerable extent decreased. The supply has been more regu lar and satisfactory for the last three years than it was before ; but even now when th weather is cold, it is interrupted occasionally for two or three days. Q. What are the interruptions ? A. It is the " freize,"' a jieculiar kind of ice formed under water, which flows in and chokes the supply. Mr. Keefer gave an elaborate report on this "freize," It is peculiar to the St. L"'.vrence, near I.nchiiie Rapids, in the o])en water where it is not frozen over ; when the temperature gets below zero it forms very fast under water and chokes the current. Mr. Fleming. — But you have to mill in the winter? Mr. Workman. — Yes ; these interruptions have not been so frequent of late. The additional supply has ad(leisahle to preserve some means of utilizing that water power when it is required ? Mr. Workman— Yes, sir. Mr. Fleming — If it can be done, to secure the land at least ? -.ir. Workman — -If it could be done at any reasonable expense, I think it ought to but it is a (piestion of return for capital invested. Mr. Fleining — If that ])art of the town were built over, would it be possible to secure the land at any reasonable cost ? Mr. Workman — No, sir. Mr. P'leir.ing — It would be more difficult to get it ? Mr. Workman — Ves ; if Mi ntreal makes the same progress in the next 50 years that has been made in the past 50 years, it will be a town of 500,000 inhabitants. Q. Do you think the wharf accommodation sufficient for present requirements ? Mr. Workman — It has been sufficient, with the exception of a few days in Spring and Fall. Look at to-day — it will accommodate three times the trade that it has. It is better adapted for the trade of Montreal than Liverpool is for the trade of Liverpool I have seen \essels loaded over each othtr once or twice here ; but in Liverpool they load frequently three or four deep, so crowded is that port. It is all-important to give vessels dispatch. If a vessel can come here, discharge her cargo and take in another in five days, you only want half the accommodation you would if she took ten days ; she makes room for others so much aooner. Mr. Fleming— The ships are des])atched ipiicker now than they were ? Mr. Workman. — Much i[uicker ; and the means of loading and unloading .re more rapid. F'ormerly, it was all done by hand ; now, it is (.one by steam. I have known vessels come m here, unload and load large cargoes, and beolT in five days ; large steamers have come in and discharged full cargoes, take in 2,500 tons, and cleared in three days at Allans' Wharf Mr. Bell-Taking into consideration future re(|uirements, v our steamers coming here ; in conseciuence of our high wharfage they were going round by New York. A half ton of rtne silks recently cost over $ioo wharfage — such goods pay ^ percent. ; they go to New York by steamer, where there is no wharf- age, and are sent on to Western Canada, I suppose. Heavy and bulky goods, such as iron, crockery, etc., come this way. Mr. Bell — Then, in New York, are these wharves the property of the Government ? Mr. Workma.i — I cannot correctly answer that question ; 1 was under the impression that they had to pay high wharfage there until lately ; here the wharfage is a burden to the importation of dry goods ; you see X 1"^'' cent, on dry goods, more than balances the extra expense of freight by New York. This is a subject to be taken into consideration. The trade of London, England, is overburdened by town and dock dues, and wharfage. Mr. Bell — -Still they go on and prosper ? Mr. Workman — There they have an enormous population, and the concentrated capital of the world to provide for. There is no doubt, that this plan of building stores is a grand idea, and I may not look at in a proper light ; but I don't think you can make it jiay as an investment. The Government might make .Montreal a splendid harbour ; but they can- not ilo it as a Government work, I piesume. 66 Mr. Bell — Do you consider Ihe present wharfage is a bad arrangement ? Mr. •Work man — The wharfage is very good for a certain class of vessels, but not so good for others. Mr. Fleminj^'- — Do you think it advisable to take some of the trades such as coals, pig iron, &c., &c., and accommodate them in another place ? Mr. Workman replied that the further it was taken away, ihe higher the cartage would be— probably thirty cents a ton extra on coals, pig iron, &c. Mr. Fleming — If taken to Point St. Charles ? Mr. Workman— That would increase the cartage very much. There would be a difference of twenty cents a ton in favor of this side of the Lachine Canal, as compared with the south side. Mr. Bell — Suppose you had it on the new caiial basins? Mr. Workman — That would do for that section of tlic town. Make it so tliat vessels drawing i8 feet of water can go up there. This wouitl answer very well, then there ought to be another coal dock to accommodate the east end of tlie city. Mr. Bell — Do you think it advisable to have a central flepot ? Mr. Workman — No ; I don't think it is. Tiie central position would be better occu- pied. If you can make all lliese improvements on the i)resent harbour, they will be advi- sable ; but the trade car.noi bear any adilitional wharfage. Mr. Bell — It has been said here, that it was imi)ortant to have the general trade of the city done within certain points^Victoria Pier on one end, and A'ind Mill Point on the otlier ? Mr. Workman — It is of course important ; I know the Canada Shipping Company's steamers camiot get the same amount for freight as others, because they have to land below the barracls, and it costs ten or twenty cents extra cartage to bring goods to the city warehouses. Mr. Bell — One gentleman v/ent so far as to say that it would be better to have his goods landed at Quebec ? Mr. Workman — That is a little too much. Mtt. WM. GUNN, ro])i'osontiuy tho (jvaiii Trade. IMi. WM. GUNN next appeared before the Committee. Mr. Bell — We iire trying to get as much information as we can from all sources, iind your trade appears an important one Mr. Gunn— It is a largo trade. Mr. B 11 -Will you be kind enougli to give us your views upon tlie harbor and the accjuimodatiou that is in it, and the working of your trade? 67 •►'7' Mr. Gunn — Well, do you muan a8 regards the accommodatioa of the har- bour, or as to the trade generally ? Mr. Bell — As far as your trade is concerned. We have got a good deal of information froui other sources. Mr, Gunn — I am fvmiliar with the trade of the harbour by being •onnected with it for fourteen years ; but I am more i-jimudiately connected vrith the grain trade at present, and can speak almost on any point that you wish information. As regards thu gr:»in trade, it is an extensive trade, and one that is capable of very great extension. Mr. Fleming — Will you deiciibe how it is now carried on, and how it could be? Mr. Gunn — My views about the grain trade are these: -To compete with New York, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston, we have to keep expenses down to the lowest possible point. It is a close race at present, and in order to do this, we must get as gn-at faciliticB as possible, as much at least as they have in New York. We must have plenty of room, plenty of water, and vessels of the largest class for the proper development of the trade. Q. What size are the vessels in New York ? Mr. Gunn — The largest now built. We want the largest class of vessels you can bring hert. Q. Larger thaii the Allan steamers ? • Mr. Gunn — They are large enough. We want all tlie water you can give us. I am satisfied that the larger vessels we can bring here, the more trade we shall be able to do. What we want is plenty of room to place them when they are here. I have seen, when there has been a pressure of work, vessels lie over ten and twelve daya waiting for berth room. They should have room to dis- charge and load at the suuie time. We want a great deal of quay room in our trade. The accommodation is not nearly i-ufficient. Probably at this moment it is so, because tbert is a lull in the trade. The crops are not moving, and there is a reason for ir. The season has been very late, and we shall not get much of the crop this year. Mr. Fleming — Then there will be more to come next year? Mr. Gunn — Yes, and I shall be prepared to see a great demand fcr accommodation. Mr. Bell— What sort of piers and docks do you tkink there should be— basins or quays? Mr. Gm.n — We want wharfage room, where the vessels can lie alongside a pier and discharge inward cargo and load at the same time ; and to do this, with despatch, there must be plenty of quay roons for discharging on the one side, -M 68 l''>1 V. and ample room for barges nnd elevator to go alongside on the otber side, and load into lur ; it {?■ very desinililc to Imve Iroiitngc i(ion\ to lay a vessel, and load and unload liei' at tlic siime time. Mr. Bell — Would it not assist that to have granaries on the edge of the quays. Mr Qunn -No; I am not at all in favour of that; I think it would be attended with altogether too much cost; grain will not bear handling in that way; you may be surprised when I tell you that the competition for the trade is 80 great, that half a cent, a bushel will turn the scale between here and New York, so that it is of the utmost imp.irtance to save every traction, and cut down expense to the lowest possible point ; I have seen orders paes us here for three- pence a quarter; tluee-pencc a quarter will turn the trade here. Mr. Bull— You think it will be no saving to have warehouses ? Mr. Gunn— Not at all. . . . . Mr. Bell — Will floating warehouses suit you best ? Mr. Gunn — Barges are the only warehouses we require. If you talk over the handling of grain I will give you my views 'as to the most economical man- ner, of handling the grain trade of the West — deepen the Welland Canal so as to admit vessels of a capacity of 40,000 or 50,000 bushels ; break bulk at Klngstt)u by a fixed elevator where the grain can remain a few days should barges not be ready to receive grain from lake vessels. There is an idea of bringing thcs^e large lake vessels through to Mont''eal. My views are entirely opposeu 't. Mr. Fleming— Where do these hirge vessels come from ? Mr. Gunn — From Chicago, Milwaukee and other Western grain centres. Mr. Bell — Cannot they get right through the St. Lawrence 'i Mr. Gunn— They will have to go to Kingston, at any rate. Mr. Fleming — What is to stop them coming here? Mr. Gunn — InsufHcient water; and to bring them, an enormous outlay of money would be necessary in deepening the canal. Mr. Fleming -Are they not doing so now? Mr. Gunn — I think it quite unnecessary, but they are doing so ; they are deepening the locks to 14 feet and 270 feet in length. Mr Bull — That is on the St. Lawrence Canals ? air. Gunn — On the Lachine Canal and others;- in my opinion, it is a waste of money for a very long time to come. Mr. Fleming— riiey are deepening the lower end of the Lachine Canal, t,nd contemplate tleepening the wliole ? Mr. Guuu — We required the additional room at the lower end ot the Lachine 69 Canal, but nothing more for many years to come. I was going to say the lake, river and ocean transportation slioukl be three distinct branches. You cannot combine them in one. Vessi^ls adapted to tlie lake trade are not adapted to the river, and those ndapted to the lakes and river are not adapted to the ocean. My idea of the most economical way of conducting the grain-carrying trade is by bringing large lake vessels and propellers to Kingston, and then forward- ing in barges of 15 to 20,000 bushels capacity to Montreal. These barges can go into any part of the harbour, and are much more economical and convenient than larger vessels. They are not costly, and can lie here, while a propeller of 40,000 bushels would cost $100,000; to make them profitable we would have to keep them always running, which would be impossible. Tlierefore, by having a fixed elevator at Kingston, you could handle stuff promptly, and afterwards in boats adapted to load ships. It is desirable for the iui|)ort trade to Lave the goods landed as high up in the harljour as possible ; for the grain trade it makes little difference. I have handled several million iaisliels this yeir, and could have loaded in the lower part of the harbour as well as any where else. All that is required is room to place vessels, so that they can dischiirge cargoes and receive grain at the fame time. Grain is the great bulk of cargoes last referred to. Such vesf^els as the Allan steamers take mixtfd ciirgo(^s, and loatl sometimes not more than one-third to a-half'with grain. Take this last ship of their line, the " Sarmatian ;" her carrying capacity is 20,000 barrels, and she carried, I think, about one-thiiu of that capacity in grain. Tlie balance consisted of butter, cheese, ffour, &c. The Allan steamers carry the great bulk of this trade. In answer to Mr. Bell, Mr. Gunn said that if the lake steamers break bulk at Kingston, they must have some store room there, although only to a very moder- ate extent, and attached to fixed elevators. Mr. Bell— That is an important item ? Mr. Gunn— My idea is that it is necessary to break bulk at Kingston ; put up an elevator cf moderate capacity there, in order that these large propellers, when they come in, can transfer their cargoes promptly. I feel that it w ill never do to bring large lake propellers here. Mr. Bell — Instead of breaking at Kingston, suppose you had stores here, and an elevator to c'.rry the grain into the store, and then discharga it into the ship by spout ? Mr, Gunn — Of course it would be a great convenience if you could get the ship to the spout ; but, in my opinion, it will be too costly. Mr. Bell— It will at Kingston ? Mr. Gunn — No; because it will not go into the store, except in a case of 'I'll ,IT I ! to emergency, when barges ore not ready to take it. A g&le of wind from the east might keep forty or fifty vessels back for a week or ten days, which would all come in at one time. To provide for a time like that, I say, have a fixed eleva- tor, and let the elevator spout it down to the barges, if ready, or the grain can lie there for a week or so, attended with little cost. Mr. Bell said: that if the propellers went to Kingston, and the barges were not ready, they could come on to Montreal, if there were store houses here, and the canals made deep enough. Mr. Gunn — My idea is the canals are well enough as they are, for five times as much as we are doing; they have caiJ.icity enough for five times the amount of business that has cvci' yet been done in them. Mr. rieming — Suppose the canals were deep enough for forty thousand bushel propellers to come to Montreal ; do you think it desirable they should come ? A. No; it would be attended with too much cost; for this reason, a propeller that costs |80,000, or $100,000, is well adapted to the lake trade, and not the river ; a barge that costs one-tifth the price will do the work better ; therefore, why keep the costly boat to do it ? Mr. Bell -Why is it these barges should not go on to Quebec, instead of stopping at Montreal ? Mr. Gunn^ — I see no reason, except that trade is prepared for it here. Mr. Fleming- It it is more costly to carry lake propellers to Montreal, is it not more costly to bring ocean steamers here ? Mr. Gunn — No ; when the cargoes are in, I don't think it costs so much more to come on here if you have water enough to steam up. Mr. Fleming — The reason you give why barges are cheaper than propellers, surely applies equally to ocean vessels ? Mr. Gunn— No, because the time is lost in the canals ; while here you have an open river that you can steam up at full rate of speed all the way. There (in the canals) you take ten days to get here. Five days time with a costly steamer is too much to spend in canals, and besides, when you get them here, you have to break bulk by storing. Take a larger class of boat (the Allans') and you cannot deliver more than 10 or 15 thousand bushels out at one time, you have either to kee] here (in the propeller), or move it to some other ship. Mr. Bell— ur store it .* Mr. Gunn — Or store it ; you cannot keep tliese propellers idle ; you have either to put their cargoes in barges or into store. Mr. Bell — Same reason applies to ocean vessels ? Mr. Gunn — I don't see it. Mr. Pleming— Is there not much more capital invested ? Mr. Gunn — The ocean vessels come here and discharge instantly, if there is wharf accommodation. Mr. Bell — That makes a difference ? Mr. Gunn — It makes it entirely different if they were simply engaged car- rying grain ; it is entirely a dili'cient trade. Perhaps there is one party to handle the cargo of a propeller, and tive hundred the cargo of the inward steamer ? Mr. Bell asked how the butter and cheese came. Mr. Gunn replied : that a great (lunntity came by rail. Mr. Bell — What if the steamer is not ready ? Mr. Gunn replied : that the steamship company took a large quantity into the sheds. Mr. Bell— Would it not be better to have stores ? Mr. Gunn — It would be desirable, if that class of goods could be handled in that way. At present, they some times leave it in the train. I think, as a general thing, it is hauled to the steamboat sheds as soon as it comes; stuff for shipment is i ^idom warehoused. Mr. Bell— Then suppose there were basins made, no matter where, up the river ; do you consider it would be better to lock the ships to the level of the canal, or lock the canal barges down to the level of the ships, keeping the quays a proper height above water ? Mr. Gunn— Well, I think the ships would lie alongside the wharf at th« level of the river. I see no objection. I don't see, however, wliere the advantage would be. Mr. Fleming — Would they not be obstructed by the water rising over the quays ? Mr. Gunn — Sometimes there is such obstruction. Mr. Bell -It would be an advantage then to have a dry place for cargoes. Mr. Gunn — But, in my experience, there is no thfficulty with the wharves at their present height, except early in the spring; there are one or two places where thr current is strong, and there is difficulty, but I think the vessels work very well at the level of the river ; what we want most, in connection with the grain trade, is plenty of quay room, and plenty of water ; when a crowd of vessels come in, the difficulty has been getting them berthed, and getting their cargoes out; some years ago, I remember seeing -vessels lying four and live abreast, waiting sometimes ten days for a berth. Mr. Bell — Where do the barges lie ? Mr. Gunn — In the canal, until they are wanted. L w 'I'f t m Mr. PIcminp— Then these Ixisins tliey nre making will be an accommodation to the trade? Mr. Giinn — Yes; I wish to impress upon you, tliiit so far as the grain trade goes, I can assure you it will not boar storage charges ; it must be transferred from l)arge8 to ships at tlio least possible expense ; we cannot compete witli other shipping pf)rts, with the cost of storage added. Mr. Fleming -You say you want plenty i)f accommodation ; can you define how mvfh you require for the present trale to keep her ; she nnist be handled promjitly. Mr. Fleming — Do you think about double the accommodation will be reriiig ami fall, wliicli, with kec]iiiig in repair, plaiikiug public wharf (witliout which planking, it is only a miul-hole or gutter) involves a very large outlay of private means for public puriKises. 1 woiilil beg to suggest, that the Docks or Basins— now in use for the general ship- ping of Montreal — should be greatly enlarged ; they are now much too small. " M tit- calf" Basin, for instance, should be not less than 300 to S.'O feet wide, and the length of each l''ier B.W to 6(M) feet, which would afford ample room for live large sailing sliipF, with their Klevators and grain barges, and leave a wide passage in the centre of the dock for traffic to and fro. As for depth of water in the Basin or Channel, it is enough to state that, from about the end of May or June, until the close of the navigation, two-thirds of the Allan Line" are obliged to leave Montreal only half huien, and in many instances only quarter liulen, the balance of their cargoes having to bo sent to Quebec in barges. The same thing occurs with regard to tiie inward bound steamers, they have to lightfu and ti'im at Quebec, in order to come to Montreal. During the time referred to above, their draught varies from 18 to 10 feet ti ini;hes, VN'lien fully loaded and rea go into the harbor at all, uiil(\ss it bi> to riieive certain kinds of \\\) freight, such as I'ailroad and pig iron, salt, .tc. \Vlu.!i grain is to be dis. liarged into ships, tlii^ river craft geui'rally goes at once alongside, and if the ship is ready to receive, it is discharged in a few hours. Sailing vessels from Chicago all discharge at Kingston. Proi)ellers generally carry about 16.000 bushels, and bring their c'argoes to Kingston, through the Welland Canal, without breaking bulk. At Kingston, howevei-, they are obliged to lighten about 4,000 bushels to enable them to pass through the St. Lawrence camds, ami then they come through to Montreal with the remainder of tlu^ cargo. The great object of deei)ening the Welland and St. Lawrence Canals is to enable vessels of large size than are now in use to come through to Montreal without breaking bulk. The tonnage of the propel- lers now rtinning is from 400 to 500 tons. It is hoped that when the canal enlargement now contemplated is completed, vessels of 1,000 tons will be able to navigate the canals. The draft of a thousanrt ton vessel would be, I suppose, from 12 to 14 fee . The Wel- land Canal cannot now receive vessels of such capacity. General nu'rchandise, or "up freight " as we term it, designed either for Canada West or the Western States, goes by railway and by wat-er. The bulk of that which goes by water is now carried on propel- lers. These are i)referrcd becaus;' transhipment is avoided, the propelb^r landing her cargo at whatever port it is destined for. " ll|i freight," when loaded into barges at Montreal, has to l)e discharged at Kingston, and again loaded into the lake craft, which involves not only more or 1 -.s.s 1o,sk hy breakage, &.V., in handling, but is attended with 111 HlMBsa 11 considerable delay and expense, all of which is saved by the employmert of the propel- ler. The number of steam vessels employed in the trade is as yet limited, and they move only a small proportion of the grain that is brought forward to Montreal, but I think I have noticed for a few years past that the tendency of the trade is toward steamers, and I have no doubt that they will form an important feature in the transport service whenever the navigation will allow the employment of the large class steamers before alluded to. The grain trade is subject to many and rapid fluctuations ; prices rise and fall, sometimes in a period of ten days, enough to make a man's fortune or ruin him entirely, as the case may be. It is very important that the risk of these fluctua- tions while in transit should be reduced to the shortest possible time. Grain shipped on a sailing vessel will occupy an average of twenty days in coming from Chicago to Montreal ; by propeller about one half that time, or ten days. The saving of ten days interest, as against twenty days, is also a matter of very considerable imjjortance. For these reasons, I am inclined to think that the larpe-sized propellers will come through to Montreal with their cargoes, but the large-sized sailing vessels will hereafter, as they have heretofore, discharge their cargoes at Kingston, or whatever other point may come to be regarded as the foot of lake navigation. Q. Do you think the Western Sttites are likely to do a large importing business by way of the St. Lawrence ? A. It is hard to say ; but little is done now, although immediately after the gi'cat fire at Chicago, quite a trade sprang up for a short time, but probably owing to special circumstances, for a few years past the railway iron used by the western railways, then in course of construction, was largely imported by way of the St. Lawrence. That has now pretty much ceased, but I can see no reason why the western merchant should not avail himself of the superior advantages possessed by this route over any other. The wholesale trade of Montreal covers pretty nearly the entire country, the imports at Montreal constituting a very large proportion of all the importationt; into the coun- try. I do not mean to say that all goods imported come through Montreal merchants, but they come mainly to Montreal as a distributing centre. Montreal largely supplies Quebec and the Gulf Ports witli breadstutfs. Tliere is no expense to the owner of grain from Chicago to Montreal, by reason of transhipment at Kingston. A charg(; is made; there for elevating of one-quarter cent a bushel, which is paid by the vessel discharging, and which forms part of her running expenses. The charge is made whenever elevators are used. When the grain reaches Montreal, if intended for shipment to a foreign port, it goes alongside the ship, and is discharged into it at an expense of one-half cent per bushel, the barge or propeller pay- ing one-half, and the ship receiving it, one-half. The owner pays nothing, except a charge of one-eighth of a cent for screening. These, with tlie wharfage, embrace all the charges incurred, and are so much added to th(! cost of the grain. If the grain is put into Ftores, and afterwards shipped, the charges are : for storage, one-(|uarter cent for the first five days, and one-half cunt for each additional ten days that it remains la 18 '(', ,,, store. This includes all charges of receiving, weighing into store and out again, and delivering it to liglitors. Liuhterago is not a lixeil. charge, hut may be put down at one-half cent per bushel, including the shoveling, whicii expenses are all borne by the owner, as well as half the cost of elevating from the lighter. Demurrage, as a rule, does not pay the vessel. A steamer will not consent to let her cargo remain on board, and accept demurrage ; but will discharge into store after a reasonable delay. If she arrives, and the ship into which her cargo is going is not ready to receive it, she discharges into store. Her owners would never submit to have their vessels used as store ships. We are obliged to have storehouses for grain ; and, as our trade increases, will probably require more than we now have (although our accom- modation in that resi)ect is now fully equal to the ordinary re(iuirements) ; but I think that is a branch of business that will regulate itself. Pri^'ate enterprise will supply stores as fast as the trade requires them. They will, in that case, have to be on the canal, and not on the wharves. DiH!<;ulties would be found in the way of building stores on the wharves, owing to floodiUf, and shoving of ice, and provision would have to be made for that. Warehouses could hv, built upon the wharves, I suppose, but I do not think them necessary, nor do I think they would lessen charges in any way ; on the contrary, they would be likely to increase th(!m. Grain warehouses are not suitable for storing general merchandise ; they require peculiar construction, and are e.vpensive to build. Owing to our geographical position, we do our business only during six or seven months inj tlic year ; and if we build costly storehouses in which to do six months' work, the cost of maintenance and interest on the outlay will largely increase the cost of handling grnin. There is a sharp rivalry in carrying grain, and every facility to the trade is necessary in order that Montreal may compete to advantage — but it is very important that we keep down the charges. I think we should keep that constantly before us, and look to reducing rather than increasing them. Great efiorts have lately been made in New York, and apparently with suc- cess, to reduce the charges in that port, and at Buft'alo, and on the Erie canal charges arc being cut down wherever practicable, and we must be prepared to do the same. At New York grain arrives by rail aE well as by canal, they have railway communi- cation and an open seaboard all the winter, while we are hermetically sealed during that period. There has never been any disposition to accommodate grain here in the winter, the tendency is rather to keep it back until the opening of Navigation in the spring. In Western Canada, on the line of the railways, mostly every shipper has his own small storehouse where he can hold his grain all winter, free from cost, but if he sends it forward to Montreal, then expense begins upon it. Most of the grain which passes through Montreal in winter goes to Portland, we never see it here. The Grand Trunk brings but little in summer. Freight on wheat from Chicago amounts at pre- sent to about 10 cents a bushel in American cy. i. e., 6c. to Kingston and 4c. from thence to Montreal, or say 9c. in gold. No railway can compete with that. The G, 1 ■ t 1 i i i LA ^ ilJK 79 lie lis lie T. R. carry grain fi'om local stations on tlieir line when they have not acceBS to the water. There are timers, wlien ocean freight iH higher than now, when Railway CompHny's make through rates from tlio West to Britain, they carry the grain to the seaboard and pro rata with the steamsliip, after carrying it the whole longtli of their line for mucli less than they charged local customers f(jr part of the distance. The local traffic over the G. T. R. goes mainly into store on arrival. If intended for ship- ment it is then put into hargesand transferred to the ocean ship. If storehouses were upon the docks it could be dischargi>d into them at once without expense. If large propellers come in and ships are not ready to rejuive their cargoes, it will be neces- sary tliat storage room be provided either by public or private enterprise. During the present season there has been no great pressure of business in the carrying trade, and canal barges have mostly held the grain on board until ships were ready to receive it This would be a great inconvenience when a large business was being done. It has been remarked tliat these barges are cheap storehouses, and it would be better to have more barges than more storehouses, which I very much question. It may be done at times, but forwardcns cannot often afford to let their barges lie i('le and use craft for the purpose of storing that might be employed in bringing forward grain. A barge will make a trip to Kingston and back in a week or ten days, she will carry say 20,000 bushels, the freight on which would be $800. It is easily seen that she could not afford to remain idle lialf that time without being paid a sum which, i-eckoned as a storage charge, would he very heav}' indeed. In fact, I regard it as utterly impracti- cable. You would have your harbour filled with small craft, so that large ones would be unable to get into it. When the Montreal Elevating Company first began, they had barges for storing ; but it did not pay, and tlu'y soon abandoned it. Another objection would be, that insurance in the harbour would be heavy from the liability of such craft to accident from being run into by other vessels. The manufactin-e of flonr in Montreal lias not been a profitable business for a few years past, owing to the demand in England for our wheat. The price of that article here is generally relatively higher than the price of floiu\ The want of a well i)opu- lated and thriving back coimtry operates largely against milling here. The export of flour to the Maritime Provinces has largely increased during the past few years, but that is largely supplied from Canada West, the rates of freight by rail being compara- tively cheaper from there than from here. Two winters ago the Lower Provinces importi'd very largely from th(! StAtes, mostly from the extreme west, on through bills of lading, at prices th.>t we could not begin to compete with ; they are also so contiguous to Boston and N(;w York, that they import largely of flour from those places to make return cargoes at cheap rates of freight for their fish vt'ssels. I do not see how the con- struction of the Caugluiawaga Canal would benefit my particular branch of business, unless we could have reciprocal trtule relations with the United Stse that a reduction of these charges would lead to an increase of the trade of Montreal ? A. It would undoubtedly have an etfect in that direction ; but this and kindred subjects are matters that I consider will^ in the end, be regulated by private enter- prise. When the demand exists, provision will be made for it. Private companies will be found just as fast as there are indications of permanent business. I am refer- ring now to the towage (juestion. i 5"» I % V, I'OUItTH DAY'S rU()CEl']l)INa8. Tho Board iv-iiHsonililed on IStli Cctolter, at 'IVii o'clock, wiion the follow! ntc tostiinoiiy wuh j^iven by Hon. JOHN YOUN(J, Chairinaii, Harbour C'oinmisHioncrH. General Newton — You know all about the occasion that has brought us here, and the infonuatioii lliat it is proper to impart, and we will lie obliged if you will give it in your own way ? Hon. John Young I luivt; been long engaged in business in Canada. Up to this time I have been twenty-two years eonneeted with the Harbour Trust of Montreal, and for twelve years of that period have aeted as Ohairriian. In early life it was part of my business wjth the firm, in whieli I was, to travel in the Western States purchasing property of all kinds, flour, grain and provisions. Some oftliese I sent occasionally to New Orleans, others by way of New York, and other portions by way of the St. Lawrence. In this way I became familiar with all the routes to the ocean. I will now allude to the i)rogress that has taken place in the trade of Montreal. It will be found that this progress has kept pace with the improvements in the channel of the river between Quelfre and Montreal, and in the harbour, as this table will shew : Number of Depth of water Year. vessels from sea. Tonnage. Average size. in Channel. 1845 207 49,035 247 11 feet. 1850 205 45,000 251 11 " 1854 258 280 12 " 1857 378 161,901 430 16 " 18<)0 *. 479 198,000 440 18 " 1806 • • • • « ■ 20 " 1874 731 423,425 580 20 " . These figures show that up to 1852, when no improvement had been made, trade was stationary ; but in 1854, when the channel was deepened one foot, the trads began to 86 jle was to improvf, and it has gouv on improving till 1860, wiu-n tliu clmiinfl was complii il to 2(1 feet. Siaci' tih n, no iminoviiiuiit Ijiis Imch imuii', Init tiicrc is tin: niiiiiiiailile contmut ofthi- average tonnanf of the shipH toiniiiK to Moiitnal in 1850, biinK 247 and 251 tons, wiiili^ lU 1HT4 tiif iivcihK'' '"''' imi'i'i'scd, liy tiu' dftipuning of the c'liunnt'l, to 580 tons, and tlic niiiiilii'r from 2o7 to 731 vessels. Another lenmi kiililc fact is tlie siilistitutionof steiinisliips for sailing vtHscls ; tliis tuiidi^iicy h still >,'oinK on. The econ»)iny in tht; nii)idity of n»ov Victt)ria I'ier it is aliotit 3,000 feet ; if you go to Monartpie Wliarf it i.s (),300 ; and to Commissioners Wharf 5^00 feet. General Newton Is that from the centre of tbe wliarf? Hon. John Young -Yes, sir; I take it from tlie centre. If you take the east side of it, from the Custon; Hous'- up to this plate, it is 1,900 feet only ; from the Custom House to the centre of the docks it is 4,000 feet; to th(! entrance of the dock here [place indicateij] it is 2,400 feet, and to tlie middle of Mill Street 3,700 feet. Mr. Bell — Would that taki? a direction through tlie streets, or in a regular line ? Hon. John Young — I am taking it in a regular line. A portion of all these wharves is partly jiiled and [lart of crib work. I am sjieaking u|ion the belief that we shall have a channel of 25 feet. Hon. Joliii Young alluded to the fact of tli" new Allan steamer '-Sardinian," which recently arrived in jiort, drawing 19 feet 8 inches, when there was 20 feet 6 inches v Mie channel, and had touched in the liarbour. The whole width from any of these wharves, from the outside of the Channel in the harbour, is only 300 feet, and from the Market H'lsin, or Island Wharf, the breadth of the channel is only 300 feet. No iinpruvement, in my opinion, can take place in that c^hannel in the harbour, because the tleepening of it to 25 feet would undermine the structure of the wharves. The channel is entirely too narrow now at all of these points, and sometimes confusion takes place. Then B(r,»n, the Laehine Canal, — at its lower entrance into the harbour, the width is only 275 feet, and 1 have known it choked up so that vessels trying to get through were detained two or three hours ; that state of things exists now. This part of the canal never can be enlarged unless the wliole plan of tlie city is changed. I r-l ^1^ 88 f You have streets and warchouRc^R on one side, and the mills are on the other. To wid'ju it would ru(iuirc to take the wholi' of tlieKi' mills away. If that state of things ijow exists, I asli, what will it be wlien vessels of 1,000 tons come through the Welland and St. Lawrence Canals. The entrance of the Lachine Canal, as well as ih'i hasins above, are being made for vessels drawing 1!) f(!et on the mitre sill of the locks, which is wholly unfit for the ocean ships. I heard Mr. Henshaw say that the coal vessels generally draw 18 feet, but on looking at the books I find co.d vessels drawing 22 feet (from the Lower Provinces) had arrived this year when there was 23 feet in the channel, and for these this Lachine Canal enti'ance and hasins are useless. I hold it as a principle tliat, with steam vessels adapted for the trade betwc^en Pictou and .Sydney, etc;., the cheapness in freight is dcipendent upon the quantity of coal tliey can move in one bottom —if they can bring it to the riglit [)oint witliDUt hindrance or l)reaking bulk, and to i)lact'S where the coal can be discliarged witii facility into the llailway, or for Upper Canada, or tile city. At present, great expense is incurred by moving coal from the wharf. I was an unsuccessful opponent of the Railway being placed on our narrow wharves, and it has limited tlie ca[)acity on tiiem for ( business to an enormous extent. The whole of that property at Windn. .'oint wa^s reclaimed for the purpose of getting a wharf for the txraud Trunk, level with McGill Street, and although highly approved of by Messrs. Shanly and Keefer, it was not ado])t('d. The intention was to make a station house for |)assengers in McOill Street, and the freight station south of the canal. The (Jovernment plan will bo found costly and not ada])ted for ocean vessels. There ought to be some means foy large vessels to go into a dock with 26 feet of water. General Newton (allevery possible means, the trade will not stop here. This dock or plan of extension will be an assistance to the canals, as it I ■ I'i, 1 -■(;■ ■J^J. t K : '■i; 90 ipi 1, 1 1 ol shonld be connecttid with them, and will not, I think, increase the harbour dues ; I would never think of going on, oratt'jmpt to go on witli it, withoutUovernment assuming the work of deepening the lake and river to 25 feet. That, I have no doubt, will be accom- plished, and then, I think, we would have ample funds horn harbour revenues for the jmr- pose of going on with such docli improvements as may 1)0 suggested ; bTit the two works cannot go on togetlier, if both are paid from liarbour revenues. From tlie facts that I have given you, with reference to the movement and gradual and steady increase of trade, I have no doubt that the increase will go on in the same ratio, and still greater when the canals are increased so tJiat vessels can come liere with doul)le the present cargoes, and when the channel .shall have l)e«n f -Kailway, dose to the stcres and shipping, thus every convenience could be afforded, and cartage lessened or made unnecessary. The most expensive part of the dock, the abutments of the Victoria Bridge, is already built ; hut, if the dock scheme was carried out, the Grand Trunk would have ample space round it, and besides yuu take them off the wliarves entin^ly. You cannot raise the wliarvcs over theii' picsc lit luiglil. Sometimes in the spring of the year they are flooded. If you put a wharf uj) high, the ice would catch it and create damage. The wnter liscs to about twelve or fourteen feet above the wharves, and the ice not being deeper, flows over them ; occasionally a plank is torn uji, but the wharves, as you sec them now, liave stood for twenty years. If you lift them up 1 have no doubt they will be carried away. It is from their lownoss that they escape. There is a channel in tlu' harbour of dee|) water, outside of the present channel, where there is 25 feet, and would require but very little dredging. It is in contemjilation, if this dock \vasbuilt,to run it into this deep water. Then you would have two channels, — one being perfectly straight ; long vessels have great difliculty turning in the present channel ; jiilots have to use great caution, but if the shoal was wharfed and charmel cut outside, you have plenty of room to run round it. Mr. Ijell — You would recpiire to have the outside walls of I'oint St. Clharles dock strong enough to resist tlie ice ? • . Hon. .lohn Yonng -Yes. In answer to a ((uestion as to rafting timber, Hon. John Young — We have had complaints of rafts being tied to people's pro- perty at Lachine. This is against the law, and these [lurties want to bring their timber through to Montreal. Some parties boom timber in the Government bomus at Lachine, . but these are insutHcient. They come to us and say, '• we want space to store our timber, we are willing to pay you any price." A very good i)lace for that trade is above the bridge, and connecting Nuns' Island with it. I don't know whether you have seen it or not, but by jiutting booms of floating timber across there, you can have the wliole of that i)lace in conneition with the «hore for lumber. I have thought, as the Government are about enlarging the Lachine canal, if this place, or any place which you gentlemen may suggest kvvo presented to thi^ Government — and as the public interest is our interest and the interest which w<^ reiireseiit — that they might see the economy, insti'ad of enlarging the Lai'hiue Canal, to make a new and inde- pendent canal, and bring it in connection with these docks. The estimate for these docks was two million dollars, but if the works cost six millions it will be nothing compared with their utility to tradl^ It would be a work for the futm-e, and bo the means of cheapening chaiges to the West*.'rn export*'r and importer, ajid make Montreal one of the best harbours on this continent. Geneial Newton— Going back to that dam from Nuns' Island, would it not require a dam here ? i M s^ 92 1lni„ ■'' I Hon. John Younj,' If tukcn in conncctidn witli a ni-w ciiniil, it would liave to be flrtniniL'd. TiiiTc is no shove of tlir ice intwi'cn Nnns' I.shind and the shoie. TluTe is no inovomejit of icu as thure is on th(.' outsiUf. Tlio land in the Uu'ality has increased in value, Imt its cost is still small in conqiarison to places further down' Messrs. MeAli)ine, Kiikwoud and C'hilde said the water-power of the docks would three times over-pay tiie interest on the cost; and 1 lulieve it wouUl [jay all the dues of the harht)ur. General Newton — These logs or rafts you speak of, are they wanted for the Montreal market ? Hon. John Young — Yes, sir ; those for Quebec go down tlic rapids, on the otiier side of the island. General Newton Do you know what the value of the log trade is for Montreal ? Hon. John Young — No ; but we can get you the value of it from one of the Com- missioners (Mr. Donovan), wlio is in tliat trade, and can give you all the information you desire. Mr. Bell— What you ])ropo.se is to put a 1 mi liHli Ufloher. :it Ton o'clcick, and iv.^nnied tlie heiirin^ of ovidoiuH' by Mr. PETHR DOXOVAX, lluiboiu- t'omniissionor, rcpivsenting tlio Lumber Trade. Mr. Bell — We have got from various gentlemen suggestions and information about tlie harbour, and will be glad to hear your vijws. Mr. Donovan — Well, the luniljer and the timber trade has been entirely ignored up to the present, so far as regards aeionimodatiou for landing ithis applies specially to timber for eity consumption^), handling, &e., except for tin,' South American trade, which has been accommodated by the breast wharves at Hochelnga. The local trade is very large; there is no accommodation at all for it; there used to be; but since those wharves have been extendt'd, it has ceased. There used to be accommodation for drawing out timber above Wellingtoji Bridge, but the Government made two new basins there two years ago, and did away with a slide that was used for the i)urpo8e. There is a kind of ac^i'omniodation, which really is no accommodation ; it is only an excuse for it. We have no jilace for hauling out timber re(|uired for city purposes within the limits of the harbour, except at Hochelaga ; there was a place at Black Horse, but it is all built upon. We have no other place without going up to Cote St. Paul, except on private property. Aid. McGauvran hauls out timber on Government property. He has a slide running into the canal ; then Henderson has a similar one; but they are only temporary fixtures made by themselves. We want accommodation for our large business. Mr. Young's idea I entirely fall in witli. The lumbermen applied to Government last year to give us safe .storage room for a large (juantity of timber, and we proimsed — at least it was suggested — that a very good place would be above Lachine, about three miles, at Isle Dorval, between the island and the main shore, but Mr. Mackenzie did not give us any encouragement of any expenditure in that direction. He suggested a joint stock company. It was represented that it would make a handsome return for the outlay, just L.i make piers on the north side of the island, in deep watia-, and erect booms. The whole plan was elaborately drawn up by Mr. Sippell, Government Engineer. It represented an expenditiu'e of $140,000. Mr. .■''ti )m 98 Mackenzie would not cntcitain it. Some inovinion mUKt be made for thift trade, whi
  • i.--You are speiiliingof tlie retail trade? Mr. Donovan— YeH, sir ; and we luight make it a depot where the Americans could come and buy thei' timber. We mi{,'iit make it a great market place, and at the dame time a mi\ , torujfi^ at a place where it niit,'ht be taken out with ease. The yrand i)uint is to attract trade, arul to establish this as the place for the .sale of timiier. We have to leave timber away up as far as St. Ann's, for want of aeocnimockition, strewn alon{^ the beach. Uy ii decision recently rendered by tht; Harbour trust, we liave fn pay a rojalty for mooring rafts to the shore. There is a Trinity House law comi) ■llin-,' "■■< to keep the beach free, and we cannot put lafts out in the channel. They must be put nei.i the shore, and when the water falls they get agrotnnl. It is an injury to the interest ef the country and the citizens engaged in the lumber trade. It puts tlu' lumbermen to e.\i)ense and danger wli n the rafts break loose and go over the rapids. Genural Newtim — Is this lunil)er nawn or in logs? Mr. Donovan — You understand, that which comes in boats is sawn lumber ; there is every provision made for that; but what accommodation is wanted, is for lumber that comes in rafts. General Newton — All your objection applies to want of roo»i\ for logs? Mr. Donovan — For rafts,— that is, logs as well as sawn lumber, because we have a large (piantity of sawn lumber rafted to this nuirket. I, myself, '..;/(• had three and a half millions in one raft, and that I had to land on ))rivate property. There is only one place where I could land between tlie lower locks and St. (iabriel lock. Mr. Boll — What you want is, a large surface of still water? Mr. Donovan — Yes, sir; so that it could winter in safety, if reijuired; and, in my himible opinion, there is no better space than the Nuns' Island, if c(unmunication was fo!in' 1 with the canal. Mr. Bell — You want, then, to float it into the canal. You i.'ant a large floating space for storage, and as to your retail yards, as they are private property, you don't ask anything for them ? Mr. Donovan — Oh, no ; it is to supply the mills ; of course there are mills as high up as Cote St. Paul. General Newton — How would Point St. Charles do as a location ? Mr. Donovan — I am afraid it is too low down. We would i)refer it away higher up. We (the Harbour Commissioners) are not allowed to expend money beyond Wind- mill Point. There is an Act passed prohibiting the expenditure of money beyond. I believe it was done, through Jealousy, by the east end people, who thought they were being neglected. Sir George Cartier, who was representative of the east end, showed every partiality towards them, and got the law ; in fact, there was an injunction. Mr. Young forced the improvement for Windmill Point, and there was an injunction taken out to restrain him from spending any more public money, and an Act was brought ici 96 prohibiting the Havlionr (JoniiiiisniimtiH of tiiat diiy from qoiiiK heyond the outlet of the Lachinc Canal. I kimw wr inul a elm! oi joking as to wIk iv the outlet wuh, aud it is now decided to be at Windmill Point. VW would prefer, if we could have it, to have booms plaii'd higher up. Tin' lumiirr int. rest would |)rrrir to liave that imi)rovcmeut at IsK' Dorval. It is abov(! Laehine. In answer to General Newton : Wi^ would |)rclcr to Imvc <(inMi(tiuii with the canal above St. Oabri'I Locks. It is ess^'Utial that communication i»liould he had with the lanal for the accimmodiition of this large trad<'. This iioom would make tlu' lahoui, expense nnd ilanger less. By erecting it we should not need to run the rapids. In low v/ater it is dau' erous to go over the rapids ; rafts could come dciwn the laiial from Lachine, run into the great baBin, and they could n main tliere imtil thty were reciuired, then bring them back the same route and down the Lachine Canal to the city. The Government would iuive to provide us with a slide for hauling out, in the canal below St. Gabriel Locks. General Newton — What dlan? Mr. Donovan- Yes, sir. i m': il lU- 102 Mr. Boll Is tliis the only point whoro there arc rapids? Mr. iJoiiovan Wbcrc tin re is swift water. Mr. Bill— This is tlie only point to fict the lictter of? Mr. Donovnti — They might descend down (in the north side of the rapids. I look «t the Victorin Bridjre as an impediment tlaced within easy reach of his saw mills. In spring, after navigation is open, the rafts arrive, and get down in about a month or six weeks, and require a large spact;. General Newton — How many acres do you need ? Mr. Donovan Tak(! thi' whole space betwe(!n Nuns' Island and the main shore : I think that would be suiticient. Tlie whole of this water space lietweeu Nuns' Island and the south sliore of Montreal Island would do. In order that tinibei' rafts would not press on each other, you would have to provide against tlie stresf' fr to give us warehouses anywhere below the canal there would be use for them all thi! year. Mr. Fleming— To what extent ? Mr. Butters — To the full extent of their capacity. Mr. Bell — Can you state what (juantity would lie in store at one tim* 7 105 Mr. ButteiR — Do you refer to grain 7 Mr. Bell — To grain at present. Mr- Butters — One great difficulty is the delay in bringing our grain from the pre- sent warehouses on the Canal Basin above the locks. Before we can get grain brought down it sometimes tjikes several days. Mr. Bell — Has that grain been brought by railway or barges? Mr. Butters — Part by rail and jjiut by barges. There are seasons that we have a Ijfige surplus of grain from Canada and from the Western States, which must go into warehouse if there is not tonnage to meet it ; I, myself, liave had stuff in store for twelve months for want of faciliti>'s to bring it from the canal ; now, with a wnnhonsc anj'- where on the river side, where vtssels could go alongside and get loaded, grain could be loaded into vessels without barging from the canal basin, and thus save time and money. Mr. Bell — Where does the delay occur in t two or thretr warehouses with corn ; all our warehouses were full, and the only available place was |.the storehouse on the wliarf belonging to the Government, but tliis, of course, we could not get. I am speaking now of when grain was very cheap, and wotdd |iay to carry it over. In talking of space in front of the city, I may as well niintion that from the canal, where the mills are situated, we can cart down flour to the Island Wharf for five cents l)er barrel ; if it is taken to the Victoria Pier it is ten cents ; if we want it taken to Monaniue Wharf, we can scarcely get it carted at all. Mr. Fleming — These carts are one horse carts — are'they not? Mr. Butters — Yes; carrying eight barrels. Ucneral Newton — Why don't you have large trucks? Mr. Butters — It is done very muih better by the small carts now in use. I thought once we ought to have two horse trucks, but find, from experience, the trucks in use do the work better andc|uirker. They back their trucks n\> to the warehouse get their load, and when tliey reach the pier dump it, and stjirt on the return ; a man does not require any aid to toad or unloiul . I never saw carting done more expeditiously and cheaply than in Montreal. General Newton — And you have had wide experience ? Mr. Butters -\'es ; in this city twelve yi'ars, and also in Glasgow; with these large trucks we could not handle flour at all ; in fact, you could not get labour to handle it, — there would be too much lifting. General Newton Where is the principal flour trade with ? Mr. Butters — With the Provinces. ' If m i;J h* %, 108 GfUfral Ni'wtou — Ynu don't scud iiiucli over to the other .side? Mr. Butters — We huiuI largely, but the prineipal trade is with the Proviuces. General Newton — Has the flniir trade int reused of late j-ears? Mr. Butters — I am not abh; tii answer ; it lias increased. I eannot say bow nuioh . We have now si.\ .steam'Ts K<>'Jif? to the Lower Ports, two steamers a week, besides schooners. Ever since Confederation this trade has greatly increased. Gl-neral Newton — In cast; these lower canals W('re not improved, would it be im possible to bring large propellers through without breaking bulk at Kingston ? Mr. Butters Tlie' propellers we have now can go througli the lower ( iinals with 13,000 buslu^ls. My firm have five i)rope]lers. We don't load them beyond 8 feet 8 inches or ,8 feet 10 inches; but with vt'ry little increasiMif uso on the river side the car^o MTould at once bo st ired. In my opinion thifi would do much to increase the carrying trade of the St. Tiuwrence, as with a stock of K'nin in a wandiouse, where it could be had when wanted, and at little expense, much of the grain which now goes to New York. Tia Oswego and Bullalo, would come this way. Thoy bring grain here and store it one month, and to float it from tlu' warehouse at present on the canal costs, per ipuirter of 480, one shilling steiliiig per ((uarter. General Newton -Would there be much flour stored 7 • Mr. Butters — No, not more than is now stored ; a large part of the flour busines is now d full capacity of water? Mr. Bultcrs— Yes, sir; we pay Mr. Frothinghani $1,080 a year for water power at Cote St. Paul, and only pay $430 a year for alike water jiower at Royal Mills, which is leased direct from the Government. Mr. Fleming — You take the lease direct for one place, and not for the other. Would you have use for more than you have got? Is it required, or would it be required? in hi at |i in Lid Mr. Rnttor«— r think it is not worth very much. Mr. Fleming— You don't nttacli nuuli importiinir to tlmt? Mr. Hutt<'rH No, sir? i .i,,rrt tliini; it nl niucli iiniM.itancf iit all. Mr. Fleming — You don't tliinii a large addition to llie water power neeessary ut present. « Mr. Butti'rs— No, sir, [ do not, and I don't tliiidi it over will be. Mr. Bell- How is it lor other imrposes !> 'sides millinf; ? Mr. Butters — There aic one or two iron works; F iielieve they are about to give up tlie use of water power, and ,i,'o into steam, and for one reason alone ; tliey hav<' at all times (ires going; they ean utilize the tires to make steam. Tliereare no other branches of trade that I know of that want water power very badly. Mr. Bell — But if water i)ower, to the ixtent her a single day '1 Mr. Butters — No, sir ; not a momen.. She vr.:.: !i„r head off tlie moment she lies idle. At present the charge is 34 cents a bushel for bringing grain from Kingston to Montreal. It does not pay a barge to lie here for two we.ks or thirty days. It would be viM'y much cheaper to put it into store. It is better to stive grain, as it gets out of condition by lying in barges in tlie canal in summer. 1 tliink if we had storage for lialf a million bushels outside the canal, or, for an experiment, give us storage for a quarter of a million, I think it would be occupied all the season of navigation ; and • 's no question, whatever, but that it would be full at the end of each seas n, for pment of the following spring. Mr. Bell — Suppose you look forward to a time ten years hence, and everything goes on well, grain trade increases, what extent of storage do 3'0>i imagine will be sufficient ? Mr. Butters — Well, I should say the business during the next ten years will increase fifty per cent, at least. I don't know what it will be in ten years hence, but I think it will increase fifty per cent. Mr. Fleming — If you had now a storehouse of the cai)acity of a quarter of a million bushels, in ten years hen e one capable of holding half a million would be quite enough. Mr. Butters— I think it would ; the store I want is merely as ctmvenience, and with half a million bushels store capacity, we would not have any anxiety to forward stuff to meet the vessels coming ; we could aft'ord to put it into rtore, and wait for a few days. I am talking of steamers we charter to come here for cargoes of giain. Tf |U Ibc Ind Ird 113 For instance, we have a steamer in this morning, chartered three weeks ago. If we liad been obliged to bring forward a cargo for her by propellers, tliere might be a great loss of time to the propellers; whereas, if there was a warehouse on the river side, the propeller's cargo would be stored, and the propeller let go. We would be better ofif with two warehouses than one. Mr. Bell — Do you think it should be done by private individiialH ? . Mr. Butters — If the Government would give me a pieco o.f land, 1 would find money to build a warehouse. Mr. Bell — If basins were arranged, and sites for warehouses, do you think private parties would take U|i the storehouses ? Mr. Butters — Yes, sir ; if there were not individuals you would have cumpanies to do it. General Newton -Ships wiih general cargoes, and of railway iron, from England, have to be freighted with grain ? Mr. Butters — Nearly all the vessels leaving this port take full cargoes of grain, or grain and flour— a few vessels t^iko lumber cargoes ; all the steamers take cargoes of grain or grain and Hour ; on the opening of navigation it freiiumitly occurs there is little grain in store here, and grtat difficulty is e.^perienccd in loading the early steamers. Grain from the Western States cannot be lirouglit lure until about the i'Olh ur 25th May. With warc^houses below the canal basin, I am convinced grain would be brought here in the fall and held over winter, and with a stock of grain at the opening of navigation, this would be avoidt.d. * Mr. Bell — This only applies to the first trips — not the subsequent ones ? Mr. Butters — Not so much. Mr. Fleming — To transient vessels it applies all the time ? Mr. Butters — Nearly so ; I think the Molson's Wharf might not be any too far down. Mr. Bell— Below Victoria Pier? Mr. Butters— Yes; an elevator where vessels could be loaded, is, :n my opinion, what is wanti'd. Mr. Bell — On the bank, in the neighbourhood of Molson's Wharf? Mr.* Butters— Yes, if nothing nearer could be had. • Mr. Bell— Have you watched the ice shoves ? Mr. Butters — I have seen one. Mr. Bell — Do you think, if a wall was carried from this point, at the abutment of Victoria Bridge, in front of the harbour, as high as the revetment wall, that would protect the harbour from the ice shoves ? Mr. Butters — From what point ? Mr. Bell — From the end of Victoria Bridge as far down as Victoria Pier, as high as the leyel of the street ? Mr. Butters -1 th.'nk it would. |in. 114 Mr. t'leming — You have seen a shove ? Mr. Butters — Yes, sir. Mr. Fleming—A good cue? Mr. Buttcr.s — I considcrt;' it a good onu. Mr. Fleming — It raised itself across the chaunel V Mr. Butters— It did. In answer to a question Mr. Butters said if thv ('auglinawaga Canal was opened it would attract a part of the carrying trade of the New England States ; at preu.ut Montreal does not get any of that trade. General Newton — On aeeount of the duties? Mr. Butters — Ves; the United States duties discriminate against us as carriers. Mk. JOHN HALL, JMonUoal Tiaiisportatioa Co., rcproscuLiiig I. lie (riuiii Tj'iiio. There is an opportuiiitj- hereto make as fine a harliour as any in thi! world; I should like to see the harbour so liiiilt that you could add to it as tl _ wants of the country demanded ; and I should like to see it done on a large scale ; this point here I take a peculiar interest in, and always thought it a place that could he developed ; you have a largt' amount of room at Point St. Charles, — either to extend this basin or build a large dock. Q. — You suppose this basin could be connected with the canal ? A. — Yes sir, they lould use this waste »vri> up here ; hecaus(! there is a channel here running towards it ; it requires very little deepening to make it of use. Q. — These basins, unles* connected with the canal, do you think they should be high water basins? A. — AVcil, make them level with thv 'iver ; if you build a big dock, make it level with the present canal ; but, if not a very big one, make that level with the water in the harbor. « Q. — How would you appro])riate these basins? A. — Wan'housers and merchants, you will find, wa!it a deal of room for coal and stuff from the lower ports. Have warehouses on thim, if you choose, but you will have to build a wall on the (Uitside to keep the ice off in winter. Q, — But in all the evidence we have had before us, th(!y have said the business portion of the town must be in close jjroximity to the Custom IIou.se, and that would rathei* remove this. They have said that ships coming here with general cargoes have to be discharged here ? ^^ ^*"*7 115 rtl in lad lill Did JCS A. I suppose it will be more convenient, and vessels do not, as a rule, like to shift their berths. If you choose to make one large dock it could be on a level witli the Lachine Canal, and fed from it ; that is a scheme that was talked of some years ago. Q. If you build a large dock there, why not get it on a level with the harbour. A. The trouble is, you would hav(i to excavate ; that is all rock bott m. Mr. Hall pointed out on the map whereabouts he thought the rock commenced. He also pointed out the place where the present basins are being made, and continued: — That is to be 300 feet wide ; you don't meet the Islands. If you make this large basin, as a matter of course you could bring it out to the present waste weir. Mr. Bell — Suppose you continue that wharf right down to the Victoria pier, and enclose the whole of this ? Mr. Hall — Well, if you connected it with this, it will give you plenty of water to connect it with the Lachine Canal. Mr. Be.' I — Supposi^ you brought a pier down here, along the front of tlie lwul)(jur, and enclose it with a wall, that will give you a harbour down here. This wall would kave to be made as high as the revetment wall. Mr. Hall — Well, sir, that idea would do very wjll. Mr. Bell — Can you describe an ice shove ? Mr. Hall — Yes, sir, I can describe the largest I ever saw. Mr. Bell — Was that before or nfter the Victoria Bridge was built ? Mr. Hall — Before ; in citlifr 'M or '38. The ice came up, and I marked my name on the spout of a building tbat In it the corner of Port Street. Mr. Fleming — I>id it strike the building? Mr. Hall — It kept piling up. Mr. Fleming -How higli? Mr. Hall— About 30 f.et. • Mr. Fleming — Which way diti it come? Mr. Hall — It came from th«r lUnrction of the bridge ; but the bridge was not built then. Mr. Fleming — Was it immllel to t)t< shore T Mr. Hall — It «Bme angling. Mr. Fleming — Were there any mili .ere th«-» 7 Mr. Hall--No. Mr. Fleming — Was any jHirtion of the iihove up iu tliat ijuartAr? Mr. Hall -I d«m't rei-ollwt. Mr. Bell — Then, suppose there wac a wall then ? Mr. Hall — I lu.ve obscrv*-*! that after it pileifficient storage capacity. Mr. Hall — There is plenty of storage capacity. Mr. Bell — You have got 1,300,000 bushels capacity; what have the others? Mr. Hall— Mr. Gould has 300,000 bushels, and Mr. MacDougall 250,000. I think that is plenty, from my experience. Mr. Fleming— Do you think it will be plenty ten years hence. Mr. Hall — That is a pretty long time. I should hope it will not be, for the sake of the city, but tonlay there is ample room. On the Ist October, there were 180,000 busJiels of wheat in store in Montreal, Mr. Fleming — Do you think 50 per cent, additional storage capacity would do in ten years? Mr. Hall — Yes sir ; because it is not to their interest to store in the summer sea- son. General Newton — You said you had been in every kind of business ; cannot you give us some idea of the milling business, as to what the present prospects are, whether for increase or decline, and the reasons? Mr. Hall — I think it has been declining these six of seven years. I don't think we can compete with England in grinding. General Newton — You have got a large trade in flour in the Provinces ? Mr. Hall — Yes sir, and wc have got all Upper Canada to supply them. General Newton — Do you attach much importance to additional watt^r power in Montreal 7 Mr. Hall — Yes, if you had a proper supply ; to-day there is not sufficient water in the Lachine Canal to keep the mills going. Mr. Bell — If the supply was ample, would they be working ? Mr. Hall — I think thev would. 119 Mr. Bell — Donblo as much ? Mr. Hall — Yes, nh ; over that. There is oue objection wo labour under ia winter We have got 18 feet lead in Mill Street ; but when we get thiH liigh water and jam of, ice, we lose that. The power is very variable, and I have seen when it would be more profitable to have shut off altogether. The grist mills have not been running steadily. My view is that everybody ships to England, and when he t,ets it there he has to sell it. We grind too much in this country ; I am satisfi' of that, and also that it pays the country better to ship the wheat. Mr. Bell — Speaking generally, what would this additional i)fiwer be applied to? Mr. Hall — I think small factories would start up. Mr. DAVID E. MACLEAN, Monti-eal Transportation Ct)., roprosonting tlie Grain Tnulc. I cannot give you much more information than Mr. Hall has done. If there was an elevator built to hold three-quarters of a million bushels of grain, in a position were it would be clear of ice shoves, and where sea-going vessels could go alongside and load, it would facilitate the trade very much. Mr. Bell — You have seen the elevators in Toronto, do you mean something of that sort ? Mr. Maclean — Yes, but of course it would require to be placed on a high level to escape spring floods and ice shoves, and where a double rail track could run through the centre. Mr. Fleming — You think vessels would come alongside ? Mr. Maclean — Vessels that were not too tender would ; in winter such an elevator would fill up with grain from the railroals. Mr. Fleming— Do you think that should be done by the Harbour Commis- sioners — I mean the construction of elevators ? Mr. Macleau -I think it would pay, whether done by the Harbour Commis- sioners or by private enterprise. Mr. Fleming — You think, if they erect a wharf at a good place, private enter- prise would take it up ? Mr. Maclean — I think so. Mr. Fleming -How many elevators? Mr. Maclean — One large one, to hold three-quarters of a million bushels of grain, built as oblong as possible, and having water on three sides. Mr. Bell From what you know of ice, do you consider if a breakwater was erected out here, that you would be protected 'i ■J. PWT i.„. „ i 120 Mr. Maclean— I think so, if built as high as present revetment walls, the ice would shove on the top, or over it, and drop down inside without doing harm. If such a breakwater was built, it ought to be wide, enough on top to admit of, at least, two lines of railway tracks, besides sufficient roi.ni to land coal, or other cargo, during open season. The great drawback to the trade uf Canada has been the smallness of the locks on the Welland Canal, and, until they are enlarged, the seaward volume of grain, shipped via the St. Lawrence, will keep at from about eight to ten millions of bushels. Canada ought to be able to assist Buffalo and other points, where, at certain times, they get crowded, and have far more to handle than they have facilities for ; when the largest sized vessels and propel- lers, now trading on the upper lakes, can come through the Welland Canal, the tratle will be relieved at once, and exports sea-ward, by the St. Lawrence, will run up to at least twenty to twenty-five millions of bu. hels. Mr. Bell -They propose deepening it to a capacity for accommodating vessels of 1,000 tons. Mr. Macleai — They ^jropose deepening it to 14 feet, — it is 10.1 f^et now ; they first proposed deepening it to 12 feet, but I believe they are now going to make it 14 feet on lock sills; I thhiK the locks ought to be 16 on lock sills, as Western harbours are every year being deepened, and larger sized vessels being built; even the small matter of six inches will often divert a large proportion of the trade. Mr. Bell —Would you deepen the St. Lawrence Canal to the same depth as the Welland? Mr. Maclean — No, I do not see any immediate necessity for doing so. I con- sider the barge system below Kingston as best adapted for the trade. Mr. Fleming — Do you think it best to tranship grain at Quebec? Mr. Maclean — Yes, it has always been my idea that it has been money thrown away bringing large sea-going vessels up to Montreal. The towage, time wasted and other expenses, have been too great to remunerate vessel owners. If there had been cme-tliird the enterprise in Quebec that there has been in Montreal, Quebec would have taken the trade, and kept it. I have always thought that the proper place lor docks for the trade of the Dominion is at the mouth of the River St. Chi.ules. Mr. Bell — If that is the case, how is it that trade does not go there ? Mr. Maclean — Because Quebec has made no effort either to get it or retain it. It has been simply want of enterprise. Mr. Bell — That is a very generous view for a Montreal man to take. Mr, Fleming— Then you think Quebec ought to be the port; how do you reconcile this with your previous testimony ? 121 Mr, Maclean — You first ask me questions relating to the future prosperity of Montreal alone. These I answered ; and now you ask me what will be beneficial for the whole Dominion of Canada. I consider it is a mistake to follow the river up from the ocean any higher than where river craft can do the w k. Mr. Bell- Why not go further down ? • Mr. Maclean Because I think Quebec far enough down, and the mouth of the River St. Charles naturally adapted for building docks. Barges can go with all safety from Kingston to Quebec in tow, and at as low a freight as from Kings- ton to Montreal, if they know that they can get any return cargo, -which they w^juld do if sea-going vessels discharged at Qui^bec. Mr. Bell— You think it would make uo diftereuce between Chicago and Que- bec and Chicago and Montreal ? Mr. Maclean— Not one cent a bushel. The grain trade of the St. Lawrence for the past number of years has been partially workwd by monopolies, and it seems to have i)een the policy of steamship lines to keep the volume of trade under ten millions of buchels, their idea being that if it increases rapidly they would be unable to keep pace with it; opposition would set in, and they would lose the monopolising control. Mr. Bell— What brings these large steamers up here : grain trade or general cargoes ? Mr. Maclean — Both. Mr. Bell— I suppose you have been talking, hitherto, with reference to the grain trade only ? Mr. Maclean — No, not altogether Mr. Bell — Do you mean you would rather break Inilk of a hirge ship at Quebec, and tranship the cargo, with all the risk and nuisance of breakage, than bring it to Montreal ? Mr. Macleiin — Montreal ouly receives a pioportion of inward goods; a large proportion go West, and it would make little or no tlifference on goods destined West, whether they were transhipped at either the one place or the other, and if Quebec wai the transhipping jjoint, there would always be plenty river craft there to receive cargoes for the West, as also the railroads. General Newton — If that had been done, Montreal would be a small place. Mr, Maclean — Probably, but as it now is, Montreal, from her enterprise, has become a large city, large sums have been spent to bring the trade to her ; she has acquired a firm grip »n the trade, and if another bridge is built across the river, or the Victoria Bridge thrown open to everj railway, three or four American Railways would conse in almost immediately; this would be another inducenicqt to continue Montreal as a great trade centre. One of the principal I t iirf w ]y'i|p ';! X 122 things to l)e kept in mind is tlio expenses nf tlio i)ort, and the enormous towage rates to and from Qnebec. These expenses Imve had the effect, heretofore, of deterring vessel owners, to a certain extent, from sending their ships to Montreal. Mr. Bell— You mean the works sliould not ho too rxpeusive for the re- quirements of the tradt' ? Is it your opinion you want more accommodation ? Mr. Maclean — Yes, much more than is at present availal)le. The harl)ourha8 been, at times, far too crowded. If Montreal is in the future to do a large pro- portion of the grr.in vrade of the West, the accommodation is far too small. Mr. Bell — How much more accommodation do you want ? Mr. Maclean — If the Welland Canal is deepened to 16 feet on the lock sills, there will not be one-third accommodation enough . That is, two-thirds more accommodation will bo retjuired over what is at present available, not including works now going on and not completed. Mr. Bell — Then with 14 feet of water do you want double the quayage? Mr. Maclean — Double the amount of trade can be done with less than double the amount of quayage. The trade may be increased many times without in- creasing the quay room the same number of times ; of course there is a ratio. Mr. Fleming — If the accommodation douoled in ten years, do you think it would meet the requirements? Mr. Maclean — No, not sufficiently ; in addition to former business, a large lower port trade has sprung up, and a steamer engaged in this trade takes up as much space as a large ocean-going steamer. Mr. Bell — Well, will not many vessels go up to the canal basins when they are finished ? Mr. Maclean — Yes, undoubtedly ; but in speaking of the present accommo- dation, I do not include any wcrks now going on, and not completed; 1 have been speaking of the harbour and canal as tiiey now are this year. Mr. Maclean — Allow me to add another suggestion, which I think would be very beneficial to the trade of the Dominion. I am credibly informed by engineers, a double track could be placed over the Victoria Bridge at a com- paratively small expense, supported on the present angular extension of piers. Were the Dominion Government to purchase this bridge from the Grand Trunk Railway Company, they would reap a paying interest by charging a certain toll for every car passing over, no matter to which II. R. Co. it belonged— the Government buying the bridge with the understanding that the G. T. K. Co., with the money so acquired, ould lay a double track on their line from Detroit to Portland and tiucbec, the money to be paid as the work progressed. The 123 Baltimore and Ohio Road coat |3J^,000 per mile, and I have heard many persons of lii^h railway stnndinp affirm th:it an additiimal track could now be laid on the entire Grand Trunk Koad for from 113,000 per mile ; I should also say it would he a great boon to the Grand Trunk Railroiul, as every American Railway coming into Montreal would act as a feeder and receiver to and from it ; were this di)ne, even still more hiirbonr accommodation would be requisite. I ■iv I i I SIXTH DAY'S PEOCEEDINGS. The Board a<^ain assembled on October 20, at Ten o'clock, and re- sumed the hearing of evidence by Mr. DESCIIAMPS, representing the Rnfting Trade. General Newton — We were told yestei'day that you were one of the best parties to give us information about the rafting of timber or lumber down the St. Lawrence. Mr. Desc'hamps — At what plac(^ ? General Newton — From Lachino to Montreal, or any other place about which you have information. Does much lumber come down from Lachine to Montreal ? Mr. Deschamps — Yes, sir ; a good deal. General Newton — And what is it principally ? Mr. Deschamps — Priuc'lijally square timber, sawn timber and cedar, three inch and two inch. It comes from Ottawa. There is a good deal of timber coming down. General Newton-Where is it going to ? Mr. Deschamjis — All round the mills, to go along the wharf to the Hochelaga dock, and some goes a little furtlier down. A good deal is landed in the canal, to sujjply the trade here, a little below Cote St. Paul, and below the St. Gabriel Locks. General Newton — Will you describe how the most of it comes down from Lachine to Montreal. Does it come down the river or canal ? Mr. Deschamps^All St. Lawrence lumber runs down the rapids, except the Mon- treal supply, which comes through the canal. General Newton — Do the rafts that are i)assing Montreal go down the canal or river ? Mr. Deschamps— Those that go through the St. Lawrence, for Quebec, go over the St. Lawrence. All those that come in on the St. Lawrence side would rather go through the canal. It suits them better to go through the canal. There is not so much danger as going through the rapids. There is. too much danger there. General Newton— They prefer to go through the canal. Do any of the rafts go down at the back of Montreal ? Mr. Deschamps— Oh, yes, a good many ; all the timber going to Quebec goes on the north side ; but there are a good many parties stop at the Lachine market ; they can !r 125 ifr. slip off at Three Rivers or Sorel ; they stop at Lachine for the market, and if they don't sell they go tlirmigh the eiinal. General Newtou -If they gut orders to go direet to Quehec, hut call at Lachine for orders ? Mr. Deschamps— ^If they get orders hefore starting to go to Quebec by the St. Law- rence, they take the Caiighnawaga side ; they will go straight down there. General Newton -What per ccntage of timber; will one half go on the canal, and the other half down the river? Mr. Desehamps -I think thi ro is more timber passes through the canal ; some years I know there is more goes that way. General Newton— More than down the river? Mr. Uesehamps —Yes ; we used to leave it at Isle Doival ; thi.s year we have to pay a royalty to the farmers or they will not allow it ; when they get down here they expect to sell the raft, so they get a privilege from the farmer. General Newton — What are you going to do with it now ? Mr. Desehamps — The most of the timber stops at bt. Ann'.-i ; 1 was up there yes- terday. General Newton — Have you space there for it ? Mr. Di'sehamps— No sir, I saw some timber that is put away there for the winter ; I am sure tliere is danger. I recollect a few yuars ago storing s(ine timber there for Mr. Stephen Tucker, but the ice broke it away — broke the chains, and the timber drifted for miles. j^|^ General Newton— Do you know any place in Montreal at which it could be stored ? Mr. Desehamph' -There is one point I lookc^d at, Big Bay, a little below St. Claire, above Lachine and above He D(jrval. That is the best place I saw, because there is no current there ; it is dead water, not the same as beyond the island where the water comes in high, and as soon as it falls the timber if; left dry. If we put it further away we are in the heavy current, and if we put it close in to the shore when other timber comes in it presses too heavily ; I saw some timber wait here for two mouths before we could get it back into the river, it was so shallow. General Newton — Is there any place near Montreal ? Do you know Nuns' Island, — how would that do ? Mr. Desehamps — I can't see that it would do well, because close to Nuns' Island there are a good many shallow places. They will go through the canal. Mr. Bell— It has been said it was a suitable place to store timber all the year round ? Mr. Desehamps— Half the timber is not able to pass there. Nuns' Island is on the St. Lawrence side altogether. They could not do anything for the Ottawa timber at all. Mr. Bell— You cannot guide your rafts to the other side ? Mr. Desehamps— No, sir. They could take a boat and tow it to Lachine, but the I I i 126 i\ w limber on this side, coming to Quebec, never comes to tliis side ; they go through tli« rapidH. General Newton The timber thiit is coming to Montreal, wouid it be a good place to stop at Nun*' Island ? Mr. DescliampH — It would not be a go(Kl place at all ; they have not space. They might make a depot there for timber. If you make a depot there, it in only good for the St. Lawrence timber. Mr. Bell — Would it not be better to store it there, and lock it up the canal, than store it at Lachine, and lock it down through the canal ? Mr. Deschamps — It is better at Lachine, because it would be impossible to lock the rafts up the canal, and to tow it against the stream is very difficult. Mr. Bell -AKsinning that it was a good place, I mean to say, and that there was no difficulty in towing up the canal, would there be any difficulty in keeping it in winter? Mr. Deschamps— There is a deal of difficulty ; it runs very high, and then it is shallow too ; for half the time, if they did not take it out, it would be high and dry. Mr. Bell — Suppose you put timber hero. Mr. Deschamps— You cannot get near to Nuns' Island at all, unless it is very high water. Thcire is no time to fio there with timber at any season of the year, except at high water. Ask any pilot if he lias got a channel to go to Nuns' Island ; he will tell you, some times there is no more than one foot of water. Q. Would the ^ endanger it much ? A. Yes, sir ; every year there is a lot of ice there. General Newton— According to your opinion, there is no place to stow your timber, except above He Dorval, in the Big Bay ? Mr. Deschamps -That is the best place I have seen for timber. There is dead- water there. Q. Does the water rise ? A. Yes, but there is dead water. Q. There are no ice-shoves ? . . A. No, sir. Q. And your timber can lie there all the year round ? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say it is the best place ; why? A. I consider it tlie best place on account of its space and dead water, and espe- cially when boomed. Q. You want the Government to assist you ? A. Well, that is what the petition is for ; I think they sent to ask the government to make it available, and charge so much for a thousand feet ; Hochelagawill be out of tlie quciition, except for protection for lumber going to Quebec, that is not the local 127 trade ; the plnce for the local lumber trad' is now on the canal from Cote Ht. Paul to Wellinis^ton Bridge ; that Hig Hay iw nearer to the trade. If you jjut booinw on the Big Bay, raftH will come close by it, and can shear in ; there is a strong current at lie Dorval, and it is very Hhallow. Q. There in no suggestion you can make for acconiinodation in the harbour? Mr. DeschamiiH — Tlicre is no place near the harbour tiiat is not too far down. Altt. SllKAKKJi, l•c})lv^oll(iIl^• llii' Liinibcr Tiado. Q. It has 'been suggested that there is a phuc for a di'pot Inyond Nuns' Island? Mr. (Shearer— I think it is too far down the river to nuike it available for tin? city. When the rafts of lumber and timber get down the current, you would pull them all to pieces to get them ui) to the canal again. Q. Suppose yon had a short canal, connecting between this and the Lachine Canal, above Ht. Gabriel Locks? Mr. Shearer — That would answer all these places here above ; arotmd and above Nuns' Island is very shallow, and a depot there would be exposed at the upper end. y. Is there any other place you tiiink more suitable ? Mr. Shearer There is no other place near; here (at He Dorval) natiu'ally is a protected place for rafts. There is not water enough here (Nuos' Island), you can nearly walk over at some places now. It is a rock bottom ; it would suit most ad- mirably if you made a dam and raised the wati-r, and make a shallow canal along the shoi'e upward. Q. Is there any other place besides He Dorval ? Mr. Shearer- I don't know of any; I consider Nnns' Island too far down the stream to make it available for the city West, and it is hard to get at it with rafts, particularly inside of it, unless a channel is made along shore. The ciu'rent runs on the outside of it, so that I don't know whether you could take timber in without a st<'amer ; timber has to run along the current ; you cannot take it out of the current but little. Q. You can never go up against the current ? Mr. Sh( arer — No, sir. Q. Then you don't agree with Mi Uesehamps with reference to Big Bay ? Mr. Shearer — There is plenty of idom, but it is too much exposed to the south east wind across the lake, which caust i surf that would break up the timber, unless you hatl a breakwater, and even then tlu re would be difficulty in getting timber out ; you woidd have to tow it by steamer. Mr. Sippoll made a plan for lie Dorval, to con- tain two million feet of timber by putting out piers. It was thought that to buy out M^. 1 128 the island would be a vny profitable enterprisu. We wrote to Sir George Simpson's heir, asking him to get permission of Parliament to sell the island, but we ascer- tairicd that he has only life interest. If Iv got permission to sell it, it was proposed to go into the enterprise as a Joint Stock Conijjauy. The Premier advised us to do this. If we got up a Joint Stock Comjiany it woiiUi bo a vcrv profitable buHiness, I think. It was supposed that it would cost $62,000, and by putting in booms and piers provide every facility required. There were to be two or three rows of piers to run abmg here [place indicated] by these three small islands. Mr. Sippcll ealcula - tcd^this would accommodate two million feet of timber, and cost $62,000, but I know it could be done for less than that. We made some enquiry about this island, and have written to young Simpson, tlirough Mi. Simpson, to know if he would be a party to it, but I have not heard what has been done since. At Isle Dorval there is a good place. Mr. Bell— That is,under negociation at present, and there is nothing you can set down near the harbour. Mr. Shearer -No, sir ; I see nothing. We get too far down the stream ; it is not suitable for navigation between He Dorval and the shore. The wood barges go down there in high water sometimes? Mr. Bell— Is there anything about the harbour you can suggest with reference to the accommodation for lumber? Mr. Shearer —Of course ; wo want a great deal of room which we have not got at present. Anything that is done for the accommodati( .. of sawn lumber, will be best situated at Hochelaga. Mr. Fleming— If I understand yo)ir views, you arc of opinion that the space be- tween Nuns' Island and the shore is not suitable for a lumber depot? Mr. Shearer — No sir; not unless they make dams tu want mmo(iate(' in other parts oi'the city ? Aid. McGauvran Well, T suppose tlie luml)er trade in the harbour is about as Well as it can be now, down at the tower end. You cannot interfere with the harbour here with -afts, nor at any place alon;j; here, io k> them stay any length of time. Mr. Bell —In the canal you cannot nave them ? A'.'i. McGauvran — No sir. These basins are too valualdc ; at least the trade could noc aftbrd it. Mr. Bell— There was another p..)position for accommodating the rafts ; that was, to take this water at the back of Nuns' Island, and dani it iieross, and make this ph'ue for rafts, but the objection has been made that it is too shallow ? Aid. McGauvran —Yes. Mr, Bell -And that the ice in the winter would make it an unfit phuc ? Aid. McGauvran -You could not keep U .hire .it aP : you see you ivttuld have to come over the rapids to go there, and tiieii the water is shallow ; the water llows very low in th(! summer season. If there was anything left there in winter it wnidd bo taken away with the ice in spring. My oi)inion is, that tiie best place to keep it is above Lachine. Mr. Bell -Rafts for Montreal or going to Quebec? Alderman McGauvran— Rafts that are going to Quebec will not stop here anyway. Mr. Bell -Do the rafts for Montreal ? Alderman McGauvran — I mean the rafts for the trade of Montreal. Nuns' Island would be no place to keej) rafts going to Quebec. mv^ '''m I ;^^ Mr. Bell -Thero is a i)rop()sition to keep them at He Diable. There has been something,' done as to that, has thcrr not? Alderman McGauvran - Yi'S sir, I dare say there has ; there is Governor Simpson's Island. There is only one drawbaek to that ; that is, tlie water flows so low in summer that timber woidd get agrt)und. But nevcvtheU'ss that would iie a cheap place to eonstruet booms. Then there is another bay above the Big Bay where the water is deep, but then that is exposed to the wind. At the North East end of Isl« Perrot would be a good jjlace tor tlie Ottawa timber ; you want to get out of the lake It will require extensive alteration. If you were going to make booms at Point St. Clair that would be a good plaee, but it is exposed. You eould not get booms there to protect the timber from the force, and from breaking up, because there is a swell on that lake whieli is something enormous, you must get up into the Straits of St. Anne's. Sim[)son's Island is tlie best place I think altogi'tlier. Mr. Bell— It is quite evident from what you say, that you think there is no means of accommodating tlie rafts down near the town ? Alderman McUauvian -Oh, no, sir. Mr. Bell— It has been stated that coal and lumber must be taken out in this part of the harbour altogether ? Alderman McOauvran -Well, I must confess, I am of the same opinion myself— that the coal and lumber ought to be tidien out here. Mr. Bell— It is proposed that the coal should be taken up to the basins and then to the Grand Trunk Railway; also, that there should be some basins formed for it at Point St. Charles ? Alderman McGauvran I think so. Mr. Bell — And that for the lumber, it will be better to take it dowu to Hoche- laga? Alderman McGauvrau— Oh, that would be out of the way altogether. The grand store ought to be above ; there is no disadvantage, and I am sure it may be appa- rent to any gentleman who knows anything about the trade of the city, that to put lumber down along tlu^ harbour, or any place along the other side of Montreal Island, or say, go to the other side of the rivisr, it cannot stay there more thafl six months. It has to be cleared away, or else the ice will clear it. Now, take Laehine Canal store with three million feet. This boom is full; if that had to be cleared away before the close of navigation, how would it be done ? If you bring it dowu here the ice will take it away. We know the result of the rising of waua- ; you have to store it above in some good place. I have not given the subject such consideration as it deserves, to determine which of these two places is the best. I would not advise trying to make a harbour for lumber, so as it will be exposed in Lake St. Claire. It would cost too mucii to get up near St. Ann's, or down by Governor Simpson'« Island. 133 Mn. Mi'(}(TrSTHN, C'ily Sm-vcyor, I ciin give you tlie levels with regard to the height of water at different floods ; if that is of any service to you. I have levels of the b'g flood in 1801, when we had water one or two fe<^t over the revetment wall. Tlie flood level that year was 22.80 above datum, and the datum is I'J feet on the sill at tl>e entranee-gate of the canal. It was 22.80 above that. Mr. Bell — Then that would cover the lower basin ? Mr. MaeQuisten— Tile coping of Lock No. -1 is 25..J4 above datum. The flood came up McGill street to about Lemoine street. I sailed in a boat through St. Ann's , Ward in about two or three feet of water during that flood. Mr. Bell— Did the ice jam that year? Mr. MacQuisten ^I will give you one of my annual reports of that year, where I have tlie heights of flood taken at various points, as far down as Longueiiil Point; the plan atlaelu'd to it shows where tiie ice Jam was that year. Mr. Bell— How does the ice siiove, —I supiiose you have seiju it ? Mr. Mac(juisten I have n<^ver seen it shove twice the same way. Mr. Bell — Have you seen it shove in tliis ])art [close to tlie bridge indicated] ? Mr. Mac(juisten —Yes ; I have seem it shove on tlie south side of both abutments. Mr. Bell— Since the bridge was built ? Mr. MacQuisten -Yes, since the bridge was Imilt. I have seen it opjiosite St. Helen's Island, also across Commissioner street to the second storey windows of the liouses. I have seen the river opposite the city clear of ice, while the ice 'vas held at Longueuil ferry, and then have seen it All up again, with the ice from Lake St. Louis. Tliis ice get.s down below the ice at Longueuil, forms a l)jeetion ? Mr. MacQuisten —It tends to tlirow water on this side. Mr. Bell —Has it any effect on the ice-shove? Mr. MacQuisten— I don't recoiicet scnung a sliove at Moffat's Island since th(( Bridge was built ; we liave not seen sucli large piles of ice since tiie bridge was built as before its construction . Mr. Bell— How do you account for it? Mr. MacQuisten— The bridge breaks it up. Mr. Bell —Then, formerly, did it come down in great sheets? Mr. MacQuisten— Yes ; the ice ciuno out of La[)rairie bay ; the tendency is to shove this way at Molson's wjiarf, and near Jie Longueuil Ferry wharf ; there used to be very heavy shoves ; from tlie Long wharf to V'^lctoria wharf I have seen it pile u\) considerably ; except when the dam is of ice above Kuisseau Migeon, the difference in level of surface of water in summer from Jacipies Cartier wharf down to Kuisseau Migeon is pretty much the same all the year round. m •I: A ■ 1 Is I 134 ^Ii!. IJ':SA(;K, SniKM-iiitendcnt Wator Works. On this part of tlu- River St. Liiwrenci', from the entrance to tlie Water Works down to tlio tail race of the Water Worlis, I liave the levels for the winter months since 1856. Mr. Bell — Have yon theril in any record? Mr. L( ^age — Yes, sir ; ill books that could easily he ohtiiined and compiled in any shape or manner whit h you w quire tliem ; tor live uv six years points have been gauged at three or fj;:\'n\ mot on Octolior 28, at Ti'ii o'eloolc, when the hoariii^- of yviiloiice was resumed b^' tlie exaiiiiiiatioii of 3Ir. HOHKliT E.SDAILK, Prodiuo Mereliant. General N( \vt()ii — W(^ liiivc leaint'd with rcgiiid to the wheat and grain trade that the greater i)()rli( 111 tit' it i cmics liy thu canal ; that only a small proportion eomes by rail ? Mr. Esdailc — Ves, tha( is correct. tlcneral Newton — We have also learned that the storage required for it is com- paratively little ; that they have capacity for storing two million bu.shels ? Mr. Esdaile - Yes. General Newton -And that the grain barges or lake vessels break bulk at King- ston, and the grain is brought down in barges, and at (mce transhipped into sea-going vessels ? Mr. Esdaile — That is correct so far. There are s])ei'ial reasons when » large amount of grain has to go into warehouses. General Newton —Now, I wish you would state something in regard to ware- housing. That has been a [loint of conflicting evidence. Some of the gentlemen who have becMi before the Committee have expressed an opinion that it is of very little importance, and others have suggested that it might be very important, I wish you would speak upon tluit. Mr. Esdaile — Well, the fact is — there ia great repugnance on the part of import- ers to put grain into warehouse, if they can avoid it. The practice here is different from what it is at Chicago and Milwaukee, because there everything goes into store. Here, it is not so A barge comes down here, laden with grain ; and, if there is a sea-going vessel ready within a few days, or even a week, it is held over. The im- porters will not put it into warehouse if th(?y can avoid it. At the same time, there are times when it has to be wandioused. There is no doubt but that a conaideralle amount of warehouse capacity is required. At the same time, I believ(^ tlie capacily which already exists is about sufficient for the trade. But there is another point (m th.:' subject of warehousing — that is, with reference to the winter trade. Last year there was a large amount of grain lirought down during the winter, which was warehousi'l. 131 :lt Ire What I would apeciall)' liko to icf. v to, iw far as ropards the Rrain trade, is, in my opinion, the great advantJifce it would be if wi- had an enlarged harbour, and docks located so as to be near the canal, the railway, and th'' bridge. You have the terminus of the railway and th(! canal close there ; and, in my opinion, it is a matter of impor- tance to the trade that we should have vessels stop as near there as possible. I have been for a great many years in favour of the project which has been called " Young's Docks," situated near the bridge I have advocated tluit scheme, and, in my opinion, it is a scheme which would give great facilities to the trade 1 represent. The trade of the port must assimilate with the trade of the west, or the opinion expressed by others in th(^ ti-ade, that we have enough accommodation, is correct. I think it would greatly facilitate trade if forwarders and shippers would allow every thing to go into store, as it is in tlie woKt ; but, hitherto, that has not been practised. At special sea- sons, such as this, when there is not a pr(!ssure of stuff, the forwarders are very lenient, and allow their barges to remain here ^ long time ; which, under a great pressure of trade, they would not be able or willing to do. General Newton — You state that the (|iiantity by railway increased last winter? Mr. E.sdaile — Yes, sir. General Newton — Where does the Grand Trunk draw from ? Mr. Esdaile — The stutl' was principally Canadian. There is little or nothing comes down from tht! west by rail in winter. In sununer, the G. T. U. brought stuff down from Chicago and Milwaukee, in comjjetition with the river, at very low rates of freight. General Newton -Then you tliitdc that the Grand Trunk Railway, in winter, can- not compete with the railways of the United (States in carrying grain to markets, unless they confine themselves to Canada? Mr. Esdaile — 1 think the distance is too great to bring the stuff from the west profitably. T know one cause of the low rates of fieiiilit on the Ami'riean railways, is the fact that tiiere is a large tract of country, .south of the main lines, connected with the main liu(^ by branch railways; that makes the freight low. We had stufl' broug^it here last spring IVoni Chicago, Milwaukee and other jilace.'^, at 12^ cents a bushel ; but I cannot imagine that ]iays. General Newton — There is a large tract of country in Canada that will eventually become a grain-prt)ducing district ? Mr. Esilaile Y(!S, sir. Hitherto the Grand Trunk Railway have charged such high rates of freight, that it has been impossible to Ining grain here in winter. They brought it at lower rates last winter, and consiMpiently a larger amount of stutf came ; but it is generally shipped from the western districts of Ontario straight to New York and Bostin, witbuut coming this way at all during winter. General Newtcm - I suppose, when the Grand Trunk brings grain here in winter it in for storing until spring. Mr, Esdaile — Yes, it is stored and shipped during the spring months. I w 138 General Newton — One p;cntli'ni!in told \\n, in regnnl to thomode of condurtingthe trade in grain, was not to consif^n it, l)ut simply deli-ver on order. Also told us that he thought this was probahly due to the fact of the rahle telegraph? Mr. Esdaile — There is no doulit tin' calile has made a revolntitm in the trade. The stuff thiit is brought here iVom the West is sold beforj it comes liere. We have not such a thing now as the consignment of goods from C'licago, except occasionally, and then it amounts to nothing. New York is differently situated. They raise the monvj to buy the grain throiigh their own connections, and it goes direct to New York for sale. We have seldom anything that comes here from tlie West, excei)t what is sold before it gets here. General Newton —Is it not a fact that the grain being consigned here, diminishes the necessity for warehouses? Mr. Esdaile No, I don't (jee that exactly, because if it is consigned it may be sold previous to reaching here. General Newton — I mean that it is not consigned. Mr. Esdaile — rndoubtedly. We have seldom stuff here seeking a market. It is already sold when it gets here. General Newton — In regard to these barges, the testimony that wc have obtained heretofore is rather doubtful on the point. Home gentlemen are of opinion that it matters very little how long barges are delayed, :■ ; long as it is within reasonable limits. Then again, we en(iuired into the question of demurrage. That question must come in in some shape or other, but we could not get any satisfactory answer on that point. Mr. Esdaile — Well, sir, this season, owing to the small amount of stuff coming here, I don't think wo. have had to pay demurrage. We are now loading stuff that has been here three weeks. General Newton — Probably the larger number of barges are owned by shippers of grain in Montreal. t Mr. Esdaile — No, not any. The barges are owned by forwarders, who, in prose- cuting their trade, do not allow liarges to remain here long ; but this summer they have more capacity for stuff than they have to carry, therefore they have been lenient. I don't know any case wher*^ foi-wanlrs have charged demurrage this season. In seasons when there is a pressure of stuff, and freights are high, they (forwarders) are not so lenient, and charge demurrage. General Newton — Then, in the brisk season, and especially in the latter part, if the trade is crowded, they do chan;- • demurrage ? Mr. Esdaile — Yes, sir. Our facilities, hitherto, of getting stuff have not been so great, but this year they have been greater than usaal, on account of the depression that exists. The charge this season for bringing gr.ain out of store has been three quarters of a cent a bushel. Informer years it was greater. Montreal is pecnliarly situated ; therefore, we require little storage capacity during winter. Hitherto the 11 189 question of fniglits inteilVriil so much with thu triide thut it Wfts btHt to leave it where it wiih, (ind luinf,' it forward in spring. General Newton — I also understand another thing, tliat the tradn in the harliour ojjposite the city is necessarily limited, and Hhould Montreal become a larger lity, as many imagine it will, when that time shall come you will be compelled to e,\ten'ly clcc'tod liy the {oitrd^. Jiist, wncu t'lc OiimirKsion wan tixclusively iiu- iniiiati'd hy the (Jiowii ; and secondly, with bill- ui' five other lacmhers apiioiiited tiy popiilfir election. I could not hettc- illiistiate my views .ih to the ■•eiiuireuientw of the trade of Monticul than h." refer.in'^ to a plan pre))an'd under my direction, or at least under the direction of the lioacd ovit which I j)re«ided, Home tliree or four years af,'o. This plan, [ may add, hefoie heing flnally adopted, received tlie sanction of the IJoard of Trad •, or lathcr the Council oi' tlie Board o,' Trade, and the Hoard of Puhlic Works at Ottawa, and on r .notion, )rop';sed hy Sir Hugh Allan at a meeting called for the purp(!se of considerin-f the plan, it was unanimously adopted. Ezcerjit from Miiuilen nj Proceedings of lite Harbour Commixnoncm : " MoNTKEAL, 7th November, 1872. " Meeting of tlie Board of Harhour Commissioners. " ''UK8K.NT. • " A. M. UkLiule, Ks(1., Chairman. " CJkoii ;k STKi'n::.N, Es([. " Wll.MAM WOHKMA.V, l'is<(. " Huor IVIcLe.nnan, Ks(|., /V''.t. liodnl of Trade. " Letters we|(. received fron* tli(^ IJoarc' of Tra.ie and Corn Exchange AHSoeiation, " ai!C(!pting tlie invitation of the Commissioners to "nspeet the tdans f l ■ harbour (i.vte.i- " sion, t(Miay, at 2 i>.m. "At two o'clock p.m., the Commissioners met. In accordance with an invitation to " ' Mat effect. Members of the Boaid of Trade, Corn lixcLantjc Association, City Uor- ' 'wi I miMmffiniri 143 " poratiun, and othcru — among whom were the CommissiouerH, Mr. DeLiish', Chnir- " man; Mr. SU^phen, Mr. Workman, Mr. Courisol, Mayor; Mr. McLenmin, Pres. Board of " Trade; and Sir Iliigli Alhin, the Hon. Jolm Young, M.P., Mr. Ryan, M.l'., Mi. Jett6, " M.i'., Mr. Thtmias Kiniincr, Mr. T. Wliitc, Mr. E.G. Penny, Mr. Morin, Mr. Ilenshaw, " Mr. Patt'jrHon, Mr. biitt'tiK, Mr. (J. mid, Mr. Mil'.litll, Mr. Lahelh; and Mr. Grant, witli " repreticntatives fom the (?;/.' '•, Ifernl'li Miiicrr:;, Wiin-sa and Ncjocien Cur.adien. " Pl'inH were habmitted, f.jr iaspeclion, of the^'in[irovemenls and enlaigement of " the h'l' l)our, • 'in'f the; S'lnie as tho.se 'laiismitti'd for tic approval of the Goveuimenti " on the 7th Oetoljj.' hist 'i'ne.se phuis were filly e.\i)lH'ned hy t'le Cha'rman; a good " deal of discussion followed. Tliey were, however, unanimously approved of by the " gentieiuen present, a-s nhowa hy the following resolution : — " Moved l>y S'r Hi'ga Allan, t-eeondjd hy Mr. Kyan. M.P. : " ' Tliat this meeting aiiuroves of the general fe'itures of th(^ jil'iu preiiared, ns a " step in the li^dit diieetioii foi iiitjuoviiig the hu'hoin a vommodation ; hut it ought to " be coupled wiili iin e;..i.enhive system <.f coal whu'' a:,e in r>;'.ir of the stores on Mill " (Street, and a (hannel of appioaeli to th(^ sii'ne, outsidj of the sho'tls opjiostte the liar- " hour. Th(^ p.'oi,( con:-idi led woii'd meet the necessities of tlu; trade at that tine , iitid i fini not awaie lliat I Inis iiK"-eas"d nineh «ii ee. I was superged'jd in the ofli( e cf Harlmur (Jeminissioneis with my c((Me(igues, who, I'ke me, weru iinrHeJ by the Crown, en the 20(li March, 1874. The jdan to wb'y till' (iriinil 'I'limk, in iidilitiui) lu llif iiuhvfiys |)l!i(i' we now wit, the centre oftlu' har- lioiir ; but that, of eouiHe, must have a limit. 1 am an owner of warehoiiKi;« in thin vi(,inity, tli(! centre of tli(! city, and whatever course is adopted I am either benc^hted or damagitd, but I cannot close my eyes to (lie hict thiit you cannot jiut within a given space more than a certain numbiT i){ vchhcIw or HhijiH. Q. SujipoKi' that the iiieiK at the |iiesent (.eiitre of business coulil be ext( ndc'd outwards, without trenching u|jon the navigable channel of the !St. Lawrence, would you advocate any such exteiisircHent city centre, and also entail lon^ cartage (»ii «o()(ls for tlu' ,rar and damminj; np, a sliallow current above it, to create, at vast costs, shippiufj; aecoi imodationwhich we have already f of goods or merchandise can only be e(|ual to our own consumption or home market. Our shii)|)ing or tonnage will, therefore, only be ecpial to that, and our normal ex]iortation of ]iroduce lan also only be equal to the same. Any produce shipped beyond this must find freight in ves.sels coming out here in ballast to receive it, and they must seek comjiensation f(ir the emjity out trij), liy a corresponding extra rate of freight on the home full trip, on western produce going from here. In other words, the full trip home must pay for thi' two trips. This state of things, inse])arable from our geographical and political jjosition, must always place us at a great disadvantage, as (nmjjared with New York, in the struggle for western produce. Vessels from F^urope to that port always find abundant freight ; and vessels from that ]iort, returning to the west, always return well laden. The difference, from the above circumstances, in favour of New York, operates just so much against Montreal. Besides, the Port of New York is oi)en the year round ; that of Montreal is closed five months of the year. Constancy and regularity are imi)ortant elements in the attraction and retention of trade in large staples. The business connections which naturally concentrate on New York, from her ability to supply the western merchant with goods, and her ojien port the year round, will hardly be snsptmded in favour of Montreal during her summer months of op.Ti navigation. These remarks are not offered with any feeling of disparagement towards Montreal, but simply as a caution against entering upon enormously expensive dock sebemes, having specially for their object the permanent attraction from the ])ort of New Y<>'.k of the general western produce trade, which has been directed and con- centrated there by the cifcumstnnceb above referred to, and which neither docks nor harbour works of ours, under existing circumstances, can take away. Let us, there- fore, beware of creating a liig debt upon our port, which, for all future years, may hang like a niill-stonc on the neck of our commerce, and tlnu, in place of increasing, seriously impair thf future progrrss and prosperity of our shipping trad.'. 149 Mk. David ^fi wv u, ■ ^- *'> «^" t..„K. I ,,,.. ^,, .„,^,^^^^ '"^ vessels. My stcuners va,,- A„.u 2,400 ;■"•" -.-IV .sp.,„«. to .,„ „,,. ; ; ■'"" - '-v.n. fro,n ,. fee, , i,..,.es to 22 eet '"'•'^"^ J^"^'aud; i„ the hute.. ^ ,^ ^f ' "" *""^'-^* ~'--"in, f..„.„ .w,,.,.,.^ '"" ■'^'— i oa.Koes. u fs ' / "■•■""" ^'^'■^" t'-^-i-'t steamers l„.o„,.i, -'--■...Uan.,,....,,,,^,,::\;'-;;''-"'.^;t part Of .,e ,.ar.,„.. ^^ i)iil<) I ^' f'"^"' stores ,I,i«rn *i _ • '^^ W( ''"P 'ii«''J,artre,l tj 'I t'oiivnieiiee for sli "1 liallast f .^■" any ,vJi , tliey eould ij'« and for tl ''"•<' on loadin flown tl 11' trade '"''•'•, and J Ii Tl gonerally; .s„ ^1 ■'vc no doubt lere ill the harl "s year there luis I "•■'■ "'''^" ""»"y vessels that H-chelaga Is the ri^ht '"""•■ 'i'l'^'l'-ilkoftheB: |"'f'i a good many. Tliey i '^''I't *l<-wn holow the Viet '■'"■'■''lit hnt for the el \>hiw for the Inmi "ria pier. \y^ ''•'tisll sliip.s eom ■'■ ''■""'<■• I tliinlv liiih 'iij,' 1 lilt as the come here 'lave to th ree oonts per ton. liain tini VVIlat I ohjeet ^' ^^'oul.I /i,ul it diffieni '^ lii'i'L' eonie loaded. ««''Js sJiould be ( V( Mr. n, Mr. Sh f'^ ^vith that is the ch t to f.rt.t vessels up tl -Dn thi up "■gf ; they chui 'y iii.'ike a •«<-• """linal charge, f,,,- th itttract to the port. Mr. Bell_What d, ■iw-They must have tl '■''imuie o/'it •/ Ills '"*^'''- ffi 'y keep h y^''>- 1 think tlr '1' hail: boi '■'' •''"'"'<' l'^' nothing bu '1- duob the m,„.^, jj f a '".siiiess we shall Mr. Shi w -Ku adraw-bridgecounectiiig '" yon consider should I » a pier down from Wind >e d. it with the maiii sh Iniilll'oint one to give great pai allel ■'■I- "ceommodation ? "•'th the current witf, ll li 1 d 150 wmiii ir That is the choapcst, so far as I can soc, for the rcqniromi'nts of the tratlc. I woiihl alsornn out the present piers a little further. We want the acfoniinodation as near the Iiarbour end of the city as pos«ihU'. Mr. Bell — How would it answer to hnild ii low water wall from the abntnient of the Victoria Bridj^e, carried down in a line U> tlie end of Victoria Pit^r, giving sufficient entrance to the liasin, and, inside of this, to take a jn'riiendieular pier from the lower end of Allan's wharf, and strike out piers at right angles to those pointing down the river? Mr. Shaw — That, I think, would meet the requirements of the trade at present, as vessels ciuild sail u)) the river into the hertlis at once, and have room for turning. I think tliat would answer all the re(iuiremeiits of the trade for a considerable time. Mr. Bell— Besides that, they could have the Wind Mill basin ? Mr. Shaw — Yes; that comes in very well now. I suppose anything would be ob- jectionable that would interfere with the present accommodation ; you could not take away any of the accommodation there is at present. Docks would not suit down here at Hudon's wharf. Mr. Bell— Would store-houses for your general goods be of advantage? Mr. Shaw — I don't think so ; we have got sheds. Mr. Bell — How would it answer to lock up steamers into a dock ? Mr. Shaw— It would never do in this country to commence locking large steamers ; we liave too short a season ; you coidd not lock one of these 400 feet steamers untler two or three hours. 1^^ TENTH DAY'S 1 PROCEEDINGS. Tlic Uo.'ii-d ro-asscinlilcd on Xovcmlioi' 2ii(l, :it Ton o'clock, :ind the hearinjf of cvidoncc; was resumed by the cxumination of I 1 mi. WM. J. PATTKUSON, .Sori'ctaiy of tlic Board of Trade, and of tlie Com l';,\ehan\ or. •il fcot and ovor. 22 foot and over. Tutal druwiiiK 18 tout fii 2;i tcct No. of VeKsel < in I8H1I 41 26 38 14 6 125 II II 1870 68 48 17 5 None. 138 11 11 1871 97 47 18 7 2 171 II II 1872 95 63 21 4 2 185 (1 II 1873 80 52 30 17 7 192 It (1 1874 73 30 29 18 12 171 1 In the season of 1873, four vessels cleared from Montreal drawing 23 feet; in 1874, tliere were clearances at 23j fei^t. I would also ask an examination of ii summary of our Imports and Exports of Brijadstufts, in connection with wliat I have just suhmitted. Rather than encumber you with a long series of yearly figures, I liave prepared a statemi^nt, showing aoeraye annual results at the port of Montreal, deduced from pca'iods of five years since 1846, — including the receipts and shij)ments of tiour, wheat and corn, as follows : — FLOUR— Barrels. WHEAT- —Bushels. CORN— Bushels. PERIODS. Receipts. Shipments. Receipts. Shipments. Receipts. Shipments. 1846-'50. ... 545,171 209,574 ' 533,191 324,205 ■ • 29,326 1,144 1851-'5» 520,014 173,315 028,125 .|218,144 801,307 309,181 40,518 1856-60 597,054 203,463 1,608,184 216,394 45,847 1861-'65.... 1,020,847 662,722 5,724,858 .3,804,-228 1,234,651 929,353 186G-'70.... 853,955 757,880 4,021,944 2,862,029 664,120 0C;t»,698 137l-'75» .. 962,453 803,351 7,382,918 6,561,234 3,736,072 3,572,871 ♦ Tha tiUMitities in 1S75, only include up to 6tli October, '75. I IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-S) / O 4 V. 1.0 I.I 1^ 1^ IS IAS IIIIIM l.d 11.25 il.4 IIIIII.6 u V] ^ /a /: ol '^> >^ '^' y %. ^ I.W. I! '■ is U if'' ' ''i mm IIH flUi' I " f' 154 According to these figures, the maximum average 'recei/iln of fioiir for the period of thirty years occurred during the five years 1861 to 1^65, tiie average shipments being greatest from 1871 to 1873. Tin: increase in ivci'ijits of flour in ISfiS over 1846 was, therefore, 87 per cent. ; tin' incn^ase in x/ii/niii'ii/s in 1871 to 1875, over tlie average of 1846 to 1850 l)eijig 190.76 per cent. Tlie figures relating to averag(> irceipln of ii:/ii'n, and 10,000 to 12,000 bushels thence to Montreal. Also, by large vessels, 30,000 to 40,000 bushels, from Chicago to Goderich on Lake Huron, and thence by Grand Trunk Railway to Montreal. The freight charge for transporting a bushel of grain from Chicago to Montreal, by either route, is substantially the .same. Neither railways nor steam propellers can command a higher price over sailing schooners and barges. During the past season, the inland rates of freight have varied very little. Pro- bably three-fourths, and over, of the receipts at Montreal have been carried at prices within the following quotations : — ^ BUSHEL. Chicago to Port Colborne 3 to 4 cents. The Welland Railway ij^ to IJ " Port Dalhousie to Kingston 1| to 2 " ii ;v 6 to 7 J cents. 161 <^ BUSHEL Chicago to Kingston direct e to 7 J cents Kingston to Montreal 3 ^^ 3, „ Chicago to Montreal is tlius 9 to 1 1 cents Marine Insurance ^ ^ ,1 „ '•'otal 9j to 12} cents. boar JerT. '• "r ';"■'"'"■ ''' ""■ "''' ""' ''""•" '" '■'''"'' """"^ ^'^■>--- "- ^r*^- free on board ciaft .n the harbonr of Montreal,-^f„lI .lelivery weight being guaranteed by the ca r,ers, no ocean tonnage nor harbour dues, towage nor pilotage dues being charge- able on gram or other cargo of vessels. All sue,, are payable by the vessel as part ot her current expenses, and included in the freight charge paid to her. The .xport uZT T "' ^"'' '''"■'"'' ''" ^" '"^■^^•■^ nominal, and do not amount to more than 30 cents per loo buslieis. fluctuated geatly dur.ng this season, ranging from 4s. to Gs". per quarter, a an ex- ealprofiT " "" ' '"" '' "'"'' " '^ '''^"^"^ ^'"^* ^^'^''^^ '''■''"'' ^ * 5s. Od. per quarter, is per bushel 15 ^ents. Ocean Insurance ranges from J per cent, to as much as 4 per cent, late in the season— an average of say, per bushel " „ 2 cents. INQUIRY III. A Scale of Cartage: The .< Tariff of Cartage " hereto annexed is the one fixed by theXity Bye-Laws While there are several lines of business in which parties employing carters conform to that tar,ff_such as some hardware and i.-.-n firms--yet, as a general rule, the rates for cartage are matter of agreement between carters and firms employing them and may vary. ' In the Dry Goods trade, the usual price paid to carters is 15 cents pn- package to any part of the city, ^specially with carters who are in the habit of regularly doing the cartage business of particular firms. For transient cartage, there would probably be a higher rate charg<"J than 15 cents per package. u 1G2 In the Flour trade, the understood tariff is about as follows : — From the Canal Sheds to " the Warehouse " or Stores, and vice versa 2 cents per brl. From the Stores, Sheds or Mills, t<> the harbour west of Quebec Steamers' wharf 3j " " From the Stores, Sheds or Mills to the Quebec Steamers ... 5 " " To the " Long " Wharf (Victoria), and to Commissioners' Wharf 6 " " ELIilVENTH DAY'S rROCEEDINGS. The Iioar.1 ro-asseml.locl on Novon,!..,- 3rd, and proceeded to Iiear the evidence of Hon. THOMAS RYAN, Senaloi-. It IS now som. time sine. I Lave taken any aetive part in tl,o affairs of the har- .our of Montreal, though, as a nu.nh.r of the Legislature and as a eit.en of Montreal I regard the works in jn-ogress, both here and in the River 8t. Lawrence, and in Lake at. I'eter, with great interest. Some years ago, when feeling ran high between those interested in the eastern and western portions of the city as to the best location of the harbour, a comndttee of c.t,ze,.s was formed, in. lading the late Mr. John Redpath, Mr. William Workman, Mr. A. M. Dehsle and myself, to confer with the then Harbour Commissioners, and the opnnon of that committee, backed by many leading citizens, was that suftident accommodation might be procured about the centre of the city, in and about the site Of the presc.nt harbour, with extensions eastward and westward, as the increase of trade might require. After much discussion with the Harbour Commissioners, they agr.,.ed on the sug- gestion of the committee, to take the opinion of Mr. Trautwine, an engineer of stand- ing, who was accordingly asked in, and made a report, which, with his maps and plans, as well as the eorr..si,onde>Ko brtween the committee and the Commissioners will be found in the Harbour OHices. Although Mr. Trautwine's plans were not ther acted on, and although a portion would now be difticult of accomplishment, on account of the enhanced value of property in and about Griffintown, yet docks in connection with the Lachine Canal, such as the Government are now constructing, formed part of his suggestions, as well as a change in the position of the piers for discharging and loading vessels. Since the period I speak of, the trade of Montreal has increased immensely, and as I have ceased my connection with business for some year.s, my opinion of what is now required in the way of harbour accommodation is not of a practical character but merely that of a Ir oker-on. .>, f !'.'•' tr" *''' '''•■"'' "^ ''*""''"" '"'"''''' ^ '^'^^^' ™^* ^'«^' «>''* emanating from the Public Works Department, and generaly known M Mr.Sippell's, commends itselt I'' I J 111 104 to me fts thi" lust iiiul most rational in matiy ri'si)ctts, viz: 1st, because it utilises thr pruHcnt harbour, and adds to its capacity ; 2ud, lu'causc it tan bo taken up in Hcctions and the work be done f^radually, if (U'emed advisable ; 3rd, because it gives access to HocIk lagn, whidi, I consider, oiifrlit to have been the original terminus of the Lachine Canal, avoiding,' St. JIary's lurnnt and securinj,' a good natural harbour, to say nothing of the docks which are suggested at that point. I suppose, at a very rough estimate, the Ifiichrhijut section, including docks there, might cost from two millions to two millions five hundred thousand dollars (from $2,000,000 to $,2500,000). The canal section from Hoilieliiga to Vii toria Pier, $800,000 to $1,000,000; and the .section from Victoria Pier, westward to lower entrance of Lachine Canal, $1,400,000 to $1,500,000. This is, of course, an unprofessional estimate. Mr. Bell — What do you think about the increase in the trade of Jlontr.al? Hon. Mr. Ryan — I think it is sure to go on increasing, in proportion as we give ample accommodation to meet that increase. The position of Moi:treal at the head of ocean navigation, and cinnected with the interior by a magniticent system of wat(^r communication, ns well as by rail, ensures the advent of a vast trade, |)rovided accommodati the wharves by the ice, I would recommend those for ocean vessels to beat least 5 feet higher than those at present in use; but by adopting that j)lau, there would Ik; great danger of the ice damaging them, either by shoving or by lifting. The winter level of the water in the harbour is usually about 5 to G fi-et above the level of the top of the wharves ; somcLini'S higher and som 'times lower ; and, in the event of the latt<'r circumstance (the ice being usually about 2 feet thick), there is danger of the top of the wharves freezing into the xilid ice, and were this to take place to a considerable extent, tln;re is danger that, in the rising of tlu; water, the top of the wharves might thus be lifted ; i r, as the water is usually high when the it3 shoves^ if the wharves were t.ii> high they would likely be damaged on the more ex. posed |)ositions. During my experience in the harbour, I have seen the wharves damaged from both these causes, most notalily in the case of the " Victoria Pier,' wlua-e the top planking was lifted as I have stated. With [iroper precautions in the consti'uction of the sui)erstructures, I believe that 10 feet G inclu'S a'love the level of low water might, with propriety, be adopted as the general level for the wharfage in the harbour. In reply to Mr. Bell, Mr. B\>rsyth stated that the currents in tlie harbour are fre- ((Uently diverted during the winter by the grounding of ice on the piers and shoal.s. This was particularly observable in the bas'u below the Victoria Pier, wliere the ice had shoved and grounded in the outer end of that pier, causing a large body of water to jiass over the inner jjortiou, and falling heavily into the basin below, washed out that part of the Ijasin (which was a black sandy bottom) to a dejith of 30 to 40 feet, and di'posited the sand so removed in a bank a little lower down in tlie basin, as well as undermining several "f the cribs of the now downward [xirtion ()f that wharf. These eiu'rent excavations I have; also observed below the "Island Wharf" aiul also in the Ch'Minel off the " lioimcourx I'ici:" Tiiis matter was referred to in my Annual Report for 18G2. Mr. Bell —Do you think it would be an advantage, from your experience of this harbour, in giving increased acconunodation, to make the works in a Basin, and raise the level of the water up to the height of the lower Basins of the canal, ov to leave it open as now ? 166 M:^ Mr. Forsyth — This quistion will riMiiiirc to lie replied to at some length, hh it is a verj' important one, and one to Avliieh I have before given Konic attention, involv- ing what may he termed its finaneial aspect. If money was no ohj' ■ t, and the unlimited expenditure of it hy the Harbour Commissioners in harbour improvements would not have the ettcet of necessarily in- creasing the dues on the shi])ping, and thereby driving the trade elsewhere, I would recommend some carefully devised scheme of docks, with a sufficient water supply from the Lachine Rapids, combining therewith water privileges for manufacturing purposes, connections with the Lachine Canal, giving graving dock facilities, &c., &c., and on a level with or near that of the basins of the Lachine Canal ; liut with the present trade of the harbour, or any likely increase of it for some years to come, I do not b<'lieve otherwise than that the construction of such extensive works now by the Harbour Commissioners, could 1 ave any other effect than that of paralising its now steady increase, and by the levying of dues necessary to meet the interest on the outlay, would drive the shipjiing ft-om the harbour of Montreal to that of Quebec, and those of the Eastern [States. If, however, this dock accommodation in the harbour would be undertaken by private enterprise, a charter might be granted to a stnmg company, carefully guard- ing the inter<'sts of the hajbour, so as not in any way to infringe on it by concessions of dues to the havboui', or \hv compulsion of vessels being taxed for their docks, un- less absolutely used, &c., Ac, and having a saving clause that, at any time the Har- bour Commissioners, by the expression of public opinioi 'm- vote, could assume these docks on paying the Company a percentage over and above the actual cost of con- struction. In any extensive oonstvucticm in the harbour, in the way t)f raising the levels to that of the basins of the canal, it will be necessary to look foralarg"r sujiply of water for lockage jiurposes (combined with the water privileges already existing) than the present canal, or the proposed enlargement thereof, can likely supply. Therefore, for some time )'ot, at least, it would be undesirable to abandon tho idea of raising the levels of the harboiu', and adoi)t a course of improving and extend- ing the j;rcsent harbour, which may, at a comparatively snuill cost, be made sulli- cient to supply the demands of the trade for years to come. If the shoals outside of the harbotir wt'c dredged to a large extent, and this ma- terial deposited and formed into a stnmg bank, sufficiently high to prevent the ice shoving over it, and that to the outside boundary of the harbour, and extend down- wards from behind Mill street towards th<' Victoria Pier, the space thus enclosed, if utilised for shipping purposes, would be sufficiently large for any likely reiiuirements for a long time, while it might be so arranged as not to interfere with, but form part of, any future dock scheme which might be found dtsirabh^ and ni'cessary. This bank, wharf or guarur, giving a height at low water ecjual to a lift of 26] feet. Mr. Bell — You consider the present system of low water wharves better than to raise the water iti the basins and enter by locks? Mr. Forsyth — In the present ctircumstances of the harbour, and the facilities for its increase on the present levels, I consider it better to make the necessary improve- ment on the pri^si'nt leveLs, and avoid, as far as possible, the necessity of locking up. The present prop.)sed extensions of the canal accomodation will meet these dockage reip'.irement." when tlu^y may be desirabb'. Mr. Bell — Then for railway accomodation, suppose Point St. Charles was made into a floating dock, and basins, and wharves put into them, do y.>u think it would he an advantage ? Mr. Forsyth — It would make additional accomodation, hut at a fabulous cost and might as well be left for future generations to construct, wiiile, by the improve- 168 I' f ^: I l| ments suggested in the present harbour, the railway accommodation necessary can be had for grain, coal, iron, &c.. &c., on tlie outside bank or guard wall and wharves. On the insidi' thereof — and the city traffic thereto not being very great — draw- bridges over the canal would suit every purpose for general communication, while the present railway communications with the harbour can be extended ad lihitum, by widening out tiie revetment wall and the wharves in front of it, as far as may be found recpiisite. Mr. Bell — You consider that to build wharves here, without having direct com- municiition witli tlie present nuays, would not be an advantage ? Mr. Forsyth Wharves so constructed might have .some advantages, but the ap- proach to them, without direct communication, would be excessively inconvenient. Mr. Bell — But if you could i)ut out wharves there, and connect them by draw- bridges, do you think that would be a good i)lan ? Mr. For.syth — If the Government would give sufficient draw-bridge facilities over the canal, those wharves would be more convenient than if not .so connected. Mr. Bell— But I mear in the present harbour? Mr. Forsyth Draw-bidges in the harbour, if not protected from the ice by a guard wall, as suggested, .md also if not raised above the winter level of the water, would not, in my opinion, be suitable or convenient, as they would require to be re- moved every fall. But by adopting what has been usually termed the Outside Channel for canal purposes, and that of the business to be done along tiie yiianf wall, in grain, coal, iron, &c., the whole of the remaining space inside, and the shoals, could be wharfed over and connected with the present harboiu' without the aid of draw- bridges, and the increased accommodation would enable all the general trade to be done in the upper part of the harbour, in which position almost every merchant has hitherto expected he should iiave his vessel placed (or, as it has been put by the late Harboiu- Engineer, Mr. Nish, "Under the shadow of the Cuslum House")) while there has been ample space for a large amount of trade at the new and commodious wharves from the Victoria Pier to Hochelaga. By the present plans of tiie Government for the enlargement of tiie Lachine Canal, a large amount of wharfage will be availabh^ for sea-going vessids up to a draft of 19 feet of water, and which will natuially diniinish the present water of the harbour, and aft'ord the means of bringing the ocean and inland vessels alongside each other, wliile, in connection therewith, additional dry-dock accommodation can be af- forded to a deptli of 19 feet. In view of this canal extension, it is highly desirable that the Government should cause thi" St. Gabriel Locks to be constructed to 19 feet on the mitre sill, and thus make available, for that depth of water, the already extensive dry docks of the Canada Marine Works of A. Contin, Esq., .situate immediately above the St. Gabriel liock, besides using up all that extensive reach, from the St. Gabriel to the Cote St J Paul Lock, for ocean vessels. 169 It would be advisabli', luiwever, in conni'ction with tliu jjioposed extension of the harb'jur, to liave a dry dock of suffiLicut capticity to admit the largest vessel which could come uj) the St. Lawrence, as circumstances miglit occur which would preclude the possibility of her being taken to Quebec to the new dry docks to be constructed there . In connection with the enlargement of the harbour, there is a matter which, in a sanitary point of view, is deserving of special attention, viz., the drainage of the city, which is, in many cases, discharged into the harbour, and, in vi(>w of the outside current being cut otf by the proposed extension, this subject cannot be too strongly urged upon the attention of the Harbour Commissioners, In some instances tliese drains not only rapidly till up the harbour, jiarticularly so in regard to that drain wiiicli is discharged into the Elgin Basin, but the poison- ous gases therefrom arc particularly dangerous to the locality, while many others are so to a less degree. In the late constructions in the harliour, these drains have generally been made to discharge below low water mark, still, in many cases, the dangerous gases per- meate through the wharf-work, poisoning the atmosphere around. In the event of the revetment wall being extended, I would suggest that, at the same time, a large drain or tunnel be constructed from about Prince Street, along Common and Commissioner Htreet, and down the river fi'ont as far as Colborne Avenue, interc(!pting all the drains which now discharge into the harbour, and at that point to connect with the Colbori'e Avenue tunnel, which ought to be extended into the river, until the rapid current will pass across the outer end, and carry away all the drainage as it is thus ili.scharged. The upper end of this tunnel I would connect with the canal, so as to have, at all times, ample water to flush it out as often as might be found desirable or necessary. In addition to the foregoing, Mr. For.syth promised to give the Board of Engineers some account of the construction of the harbour in the past, but he regrets now he is unable to redeem that promise, from the fact, that just as his engagement as Harbour Enginei'r was about to termiiuite, the Harbour Commis- sioners took possession of all his private notes on harbour construction, (although they weie carefully preserved in books which wer<' strictly private pioperty) and claimed that as these weri' made while he W&s in the employ of the Commissioners, they were, therefore, their propiu'ty, — but, if from recollection, this ma)' be still within his reach, and he can redeem that promise, he will be very happy to do so. ■■■' i in TWELF DAY'S PK()CEE])INaS. Tilt' Board ayaiii mo< on November 41 li, a( Ton o'clock, when evidence was locumed by tbe examination of SIR HUCiir ALLAN, of the "Alhm" Line of Steamers. Mr. Bell — The object we had, Sir Hugh, in asking you to meet uk was to obtain from you your views regarding the harbour, both as to the accommodation it at present aiTords, and what, in your opinion, is necessary to meet the growing increase of the port? Sir Hugh Allan — What is really wanted is wide s|)ace between the water and the rev(!tment wall, so as to give sjiacc for railways, for which there is no convenient room at present. With this object, it is necessary to widen the quay to a great extent. In order to do that, it will be necessary to take away iiart of the bank (shoal) out- side, because if you carry the (juay face out without widening the bank, you will nar- row the width f)f tlie channel. Then you can build a v-harf from near Windmill Point, so as to allow the rails to be laid down,iind take cargoes going to the west. It would b(^ an advantage to the city and tiade to take cargoes from the wharf without carrying them through the city. The cargoes et.veeu Victoria pier and tlie cauah Mr. BeU. How are you situated at present ? Mr. Torrance- We have plenty of room ourselves at present. roomT" ^'""^"* '* "■"^' increases, and there was great competition for Mr. Torrance-I consider we have the host berth in the harbour just now and we are satisfied with it. Mr. Bell- Suppose it was desired to give greater accommodation, where do yon consider it best to shift the steamrrs to ? _ Mr. Torrance.-I think the stean.us mi^ht l,e shifted down to Commis- s.oners wharf without any danger at all ; I think 2.0O0 feet will be sufficient to acconunodute all. Mr. Bel I -There is 3 000 feet there ? Mr. Torrance.-Well. then, there is plenty of room for all lines of steamm for ten years to come ; and I consider it is unquestionably the best part of the harbour for tbem ; it reaches between Military Basin and M.marque wharf; there IS consider ,ble difficulty, sometimes, in bringing large vessels here, which would be avoided. Mr. Bell- Would there he any difficulty there in turnincr ? Mr. Torrance-No, sir; we laid there for one year, ami had no difficulty at all; but, of course, if you occupied the whole space with oc.an steamers there, it would have to be dredged. Mr. Bell^You consider, if the river was dredged from Military Basin to Monarque Street Wharf, and proper quays put out, that it would be a good place ior ocean vessels ? o f ^^ Mr. Torrance- Yes ; it is the best in the harbour. Mr. Bell— You consider this situation the most convenient , Mr. Torrance-Decidedly ; what I mean is, that all steamers be put there ; then each line would be on one footing ? Mr. Bell-What I understand from you is, that with regard to the trade of the city, the present situation is the best; but that the situation between Military Basin and Monarque Wharf would be more suitable for the steamers themselves ? :Mill lie* Mr. Torrance — Yes, sir; they are iiurcusinfr tlic size of these stenmers so enormously, that we must have room. Mi. Bell — At present the steamers come right up the river, and to these quays ? Mr. Torrance— Yes, sir. In answer to a question, Mr. Torrance said : — It is I)e8t to turn the steamer b(;foie loading.?. Mr. Bell— Have you sufficient breadth of water for turning? Mr. Torrance— Barely sufficient -that is, at the Merchants' Wharf; we discharge at quays which are about 7 or 10 feet above summer water level. Mr. Bell -Then, if a basin was made lure, would it be better to enter right ott the river, or to be locked up to the level of the canal ? Mr. Torrance- 1 should think it better to enter tiom the river — that is, simply for coivenience sake. Mr. Bell— Do you consider it wonM be necessary to put storehouses or granaries upon the quays for tlie trade that you carry on ? Mr. Torrance— I tliink not ; most of the grain comes down in bargen, and is transferred into the vessels. Mr. Bell — But suppose the merchants were ;o btore their grain? Mr. Torrance— In that case it would be decidedly advantageous to have stores; if you are lining to make Montn al the entrepot for the grain trade of the West, let us have storehouses ; but then there is another question to look at, — the question of expense. If you transfer the grain direct from the barges into steamboats, you save a great deal of expense, The great tiling for us to do liere is to try to make things work as economically as possible; and getting the har- bour sufficiently deep to accommodate the largest sea going ships. Mr. Bell — Suppose the basin was filled, (with trade) and the river quays all taken up as far down as Hochelaga, where would be the next place to go for improvements ? Mr. Torrance— Point St. Charles. Mr. Bell — Would wet docks or river basins be best ? Mr. Torrance— Wet docks. I believe there is room at Point St. Charles for great extension. Mr. Bell— What breadth of quay would you think proper for vessels to be accommodated at both sides ? Mr. Torrance— I should think 200 feot plenty; though 100 feet is little enough for a large steamer. There are special trades accommodated here, — vessels carrying lumber and fish; if this special trade were accommodited with special berths the room might be economised, 177 Mr.Bcll-Wlirro would yoii put tlic lumber trade? Mr. T(,rnince -I tuink it niiyi.t g<, d.,wu holow, as far aa you like Mr. Bull -Where woulil you put the coal trade ?- Mr. T,.rnince -It should go np in the vieinity of the railway. Mr. Bel -If the present Hteamboat aceonunodation wa« improved vou could accom.uodatc firewood and hunber below Military Basin ' n.r.lM' '^;'"'7'^^'-Y«^'^"-: if a system of basins an.f piers was carried ..„t o l/i; ! ""T? ''""' ■"'""^' """-'^ ""'^""^ "' "--^ acc..,„„.odation, should tlnnk n would be sufHeient f<,r a lo„. time. Whatever is done in th improven>ent of the present steamboat quays, it should be kept in view to throw ou a.brea.t.wa 1 so as to have a wide space of ,uaya,e; I consider tkat all im- portant. Another important thing to keep in view, in any works that are pro- posed is the large si^e of vessels, and the large size they will eventually be built. I tlnnk ,t unquestionable that the larger your ship is, the cheaper you can carry your cargo. ^ J j Mr. Bell-You consider, whether anything is done at Point St. CharV» or not. It ought to be reserved for harbour purposes ? Mr. Torrance— Yes, sir ; decidedly. CAPTAIN THERLE, of the Steamship "Quebec," (Dominion Line) bein 3sent during the hearing of vir. Torrance's testimony, concurred in everything present that he said In mldition to the foregoing ovi plan pi-oposes to ,u;ive iifcominodiition, coiiiioclcil wiiji liic lown, \>y fonniii;,' ii hir^'o oinliiinkmcnt on a slioai, wliicli, no doiilit, would ujivc o entirely useless as ipiays, and will, hesides, curtail the water channel in the part of the course of the river, which is alre.'uly too narrow. Mr. Smith's plan is entirely contined to accommoitalion on the side opposite to the (own, hy (piays which have no j)ropei' means of access to (he streets, and leaves the j)reseiit llai'bour without any im]>rovement whatever. 1-0 SEC1,KTA„V TC, TMK „,u,no,l, CO.MMI.SMO.XKKS. YEA R . It F \' P V r 'p •««^- MmrU..,.uMs.... ^ ^p'^O^ «.;i>.;ni] MauM«vnu.nt-indVi,iin; ""' ''''•■^'••'■•V'tc' ...: 8,823 nKVENl'E. \V]iaif,iS'o Inn-aids « qq aa* Chmnplain Railway Co. ami ■othor ''""^ ■SOIIICCS. . . Sailinj,y,.ss,.IsandHt.;mi;.i-;;a,;;i '""^^ tlu-i r cai-oes -outwards ... ., , nn i Local Tramt' l\,^y^\ Unit of Offices. .■■■ '''''f'^^ 800 Surplus. Revenue ^S'|eJ IIEVENCE. $105,326 1865.- $105,320 EXPENDITURE. Wharfa^'o Inwards $ 31 t.qq t f ^f^"'"'-'-' Uxrhour ExpemUture Sa. ,ng Vessels an,! Stean.ers, ,,1 ' ' f^?"''^* "» '^''^'t • $ 64 51 2 the,, ca,croes-..o„twa,cls ,0 r.o "'^'■'"""' '"'I'^irs * '^^''^'^ J""-' Tniffic '.:;■•• ]«.g2 rn.,e,.al Alanaovment^-includin,; '"' Long,,,.,,,! Fe,.,y Wi.a.f. ' " o'-nn ^'^''"•'^'^ etc ^ ^ . R<'nts . .v: .V.'.":' """" 2,700 FiuL'.s, etc l'**^^ 91 $ 96,830 ,754 Surplus Revenue i'7'498 $ 96,830 n 180 -1866.- REVENDE. WharfiiRi' Inwards 1|50,330 Sailing Vessi'ls and Steamers and tlii'if Cargoes outwards 35,172 Grand Trnnk Railway 2,000 Local Tiattic 39,668 Rents 1,781 Sundries 152 $129,103 EXPENDITCRE. Ordinnni Harbour Etpendilurf. Interest on Debt $71,344 Harbour Repairs 5,356 General Management, ineluding Salaries 9,''46 $86,446 Surplus 42,657 $129,103 -1867. HEVENUE. \Vliarfag<' Inwards $ 47,760 Sailing Vessels and Steamers and tlieir ("argoes outwards 31,745 (iraiid Trunk Railway 2,709 Rents, etc 1,920 Sundries 2 Local Traffic 39,877 $123,575 EXPENDITURE. Ordinary Harbour Expenditure. Interest on Debt $75,057 Harbour Repairs 9 ?14 (ieneral Managemi^nt, including Salaries 9,176 $93,447 Surplus 30,128 $123,675 * t -1868. HBVENUE. Wharfage Inwards $ 41,451 Sailing Vessels and Steamers, and their cargoes outwards 29,603 Grand Trunk Railway 3,01 1 Local Traffic 42,301 Rents, etc 885 Sundries 21 $117,272 EXPENDITURE. Ordinari/ Harbour Evpcnditvre. Interest on Debt $ 72,91 7 Harbour Repairs 5,685 General Management— ^including Salaries, etc 9,276 $87,878 Surplus 29,394 $Iir,2' REVENUE. -1869. outwards 45,527 ■\Vharfag(> Inwards $ 45,905 Bailing Vessels and Steamers, and their cargoes Grand Trunk Hallway 2,812 Local Traffic ' 41,781 Rents, etc 815 Sundries 1 $136,841 EXPENDITURE. Ordinarf/ Harbour Expenditure. Interest on Debt $ 72,362 Harliour Repairs 8,483 General Management— inciudinr, Sttlftries, ctt; 9,493 $ 90,338 Surplus 46,503 $136,841 181 1870. RBVBNUB. Wharfage Inwards a.,u R07 Sailing yt.sHds and Steamers and tlieir Cargoes outward;*. . .." 56,930 Iriink Railway 2 810 Grand Rents. Sundries. ... Local Traffic 831 1 45,519 $170,018 EXPENDITURK. Ordinary Ifarljuur Expenditure Interest on Debt $70,810 Harbour Repairs g 303 General Managenient, including ' ^''^»-rics 9^899 $89,012 Surplus 81,f?06 $170,618 1871.- BEVENUE. $78,601 Wharfage Inwards Sailing Vessels and Steanie'rs'and their Cargoes 01 twards 65 089 Grand Trunk Railway \',S ^"^■''l T'''fhc 4,'58g Less Wharfage returned. $194,738 1,047 EXPENDITURE. Ordindrn llmhour /'Jxpniidiitt Interest on Debt Harbour Repairs ' ' New Boiler for Tug .'..',' Hull tor Sjjoon Dredge ......... SjH'cial for services .'.',' General Management, including Salaries re. $70,113 10,178 1,507 4,046 1,067 12,495 Surplus . $99,406 94,285 $193,691 NEW WORKS IN HARBOUR. $193,691 Harbour Dredging j,^ 4^5 Wharves and Rasins ^o^n'V 25,991 $60,396 -1872.- „„ REVENUE. Wharfage Inwards S 93 lOQ Sailing V.SS..1S and Steamers and " " ' their cargoes outwards 78 21 4 Grand Trunk Railway o'^oo ^"^'^l Traffic \ :: cfl^S $226,085 368 Less wharfage returned. EXPENDITURE. Ordinary Ihu-bour Expenditure Interest on Debt « 7r, /^q arbour Repairs 18 668 General Management -including ' Salaries, etc _ 1 2 7 75 $106,912 Suipliis 118,805 $225,717 I NEW W0RK3 IN HAHBOUR. Harbour Dredging « rk q^q New Plant.......... ^ ^^'^J^ Chain Tug ^^'^^^ Wharves and WoVkV. '. '. .' .' .* .' ! .' .' ; [ [ [ y/,:]] ] [ [ \ J JJJg $225,717 $163,882 ^82 -1873. REVENUE. Wlmrfapc - Inwai*^ S 80,T82 Siiiliiifj; Vussi'Is 1111(1 St( itiiicis. ami their cavgocs niiUviuds lO'jjVlO Grand Trunk Kiiihvay 4,000 Ldcal Tiaftii' " 55.V33 Less wliarfatre returned. S2J9,2,34 :J49 $248,885 EXPEXnlTn.;B. Ordinarti llnrhoiir Ex/u'vd.'inir. Interest on Dcht $ 78,411 Harliour Itrjiairs 13,010 Cieiieiiil Maiumeiiieiit — iniliidintr Salaries, etc 15,400 Coals 17,743 $125,470 Surplus 123,415 $248,885 NEW WOIiKS IN HAHUOL'R. Harbour Dredging $ 75,0111 Chain Tii?,' 5,000 New Dredging Plant, Scows, Spoon Dredge, Barges 64,824 Wharves and Extensions 74,044 Buoys and Beacons 3,517 $223,475 — 1874.— nEVENl'E. Wharfage Inwards :?05,972 Sailing Vessels and Steamers and their Cargoes outwards 106,788 Harliour Dues on through Goods for the Province of Ontario. 14,417 Local Traftic (;3,2G5 $280,442 Less Wharfage Returned .... 421 $280,021 EXPENDITl-UK. OrJiiifin/ lliirhouf Kxiiendituri . Interest on Del.t $91,544 Harhoiir Repairs 12,981 General Maiiagi luent and Ex- jieuses, including Surviy. . . 22,043 $127,4(58 Surplus 152,553 $280,021 NEW WORKS IN HARBOUR. Harliour Dredging $80, 81 3 Floating Plant, Ac 61,352 Wharves and AV'orks 89,021 $237,186 NEW WORKS IN RIVER. Floating Plant, &c $410,115 New Channel Excavation 36,206 $476,321 183 TABLES OP IMPORTS AND EXPORTS OF WHEAT, NUMBER AND TON- NAGE OF VESSELS, AND DEPTH OF WATER IN THE HARBOUR, FURNISHED BY THE SECRE PARY TO THE BOARD OF TRADE AND THE HARBOUR MASTER. Tabic showing the acercujes of liecerpts «Hd Shipments of F/our, Wheot and Corn, at Port of Montreal, in periods of Fire Years, from 1S4(J to 1875. FLOUR ~ BlllR'l.S. 1 i WHEAT 1 -Bushels. CORN- -Biishfls. Yeahs. 1' Rixi'ipts. Shipiii nts lU'C'fij)ts. Sliipmeiits. Roccipts. Shipments. 1846-50 .... 545,171 209,574 ; 733,191 324,205 29,326 1,144 1851-55 .... 520,014 173,315 ' (328,125 218,144 309,181 40,518 1856-CO 597,054 203,403 L00c!,184 801,307 216,394 45,847 18ol-G5 .... 1,020,847 002,722 ! 5,724,858 3,804,228 1,234,651 929,353 18G0-70 853,955 757,880 1 4,021,944 2,862,029 664,120 669,698 1870-75*. .. 902,453 803,351 ' 7,382,918 i 6,561,234 ' 3,736,072 3,572,871 * Tlio (luaiititius ill 187;Minly iiicliulu to (jtli Octciliur, 184 Statement of Averages, in periods of Five Years each, of the Impo? ts and Exports at the Port of Montreal, from its establishment as a Port of Entry in 1S;J2 up to 18(37, and annually thereafter up to 1874. Years I 1833-37 1838-42 1843-47 1848-52 1853-57 1858-G2 1863-67 1868. .. 1869... 1870..., 1871. .., 1872. .., 1873.... 1874.... u ' c« V Imports. $ 3,543,066 5,428,263 8,515,324 7,835,775 15,120,321 16,019,584 24,301,702 22,917,904 24,097,648 31,524,861 35,504,334 45,675,016 40,714,179 43,479,482 Exports. $ 1,154,270 1,593,711 2,652,450 2,053,874 2,692,086 6,257,950 6,730,564 10,855,860 16,749,210 19,027,153 24,133,519 26,296,743 31,072,879 185 Number and Tonnnge of Sea-goinr/ Vessels at tke Port of Montreal during Eleven Years, from 1864 to 1874, inclusive. Year. No. Tonnage. 1864 378 358 516 464 478 557 680 664 727 702 731 161,901 152,943 205,775 199,053 198,759 259,863 316,846 351,721 398,800 412,478 423,423 1865 1866 1867 1868 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 Tonnage of Steamships. Year. No. 51 117 216 266 Tonnage. 59,071 117,965 217,713 262,096 1864 1869 ,.. 1872 1874 18G CoMPAKATivE STATEMENT of tliu number of days in wliitli undermentioned Canals were open for purposes of navigntu>n, on an average of twenty-five years, from 1850 to 1874. Lachine Canal 2I9j days Welland Canal 234 " Erie Canal 215 " \v\ Greatest Number of Arricals in Port on any one day. Year. Vessels. Date. Year. Vessels. Date. 1861 17 May •:6 18G9 20 April 25 1862 14 Oct. 11 1870 25 " 18 1863 13 May 24 1871 15 " 8 1864 8 Oct. 19 1872 16 July 20 1865 7 • " 25 1873 11 / April 26 \ June 21 1866 14 < April 20 \ Oct. 8 1874 16 April 25 1867 16 April 22 1875 17 May 5 1868 12 Juno 21 m 187 PORT OF MONTREAL. Number and Tonnage of Inland VesHek that arrived in Port the following Years: Yeau. No. OF Vkssei.s. TONNAC.E. Greatest Number in Port at ONE TIME. • 1861 5,247 530,224 196 on June 10. 1862 4,875 523,991 164 " Nov. 11. 1863 4,697 534,740 197 " June 20. 1864 4,509 420,694 220 " Sept. 6. 1865 4,771 626,550 205 " Sept. 5. 1866 5,083 613,679 240 " Oct. 14. 1867 5,248 ■^44,477 244 " " 31. 1868 5,822 740,927 297 " June 22. 1869 5,866 721,324 259 " Nov. 5. 1870 6,345 819,476 255 " Oct. 6. 1871 6,878 624,787 281 " " 6. 1872 7,150 936,782 309 " " 21. 1873 6,751 933,462 296 " June 8. 1874 6,855 956,837 301 " " 14. (Signed,) A. M. KUDOLF, Harbour Master. I' !l 188 tl m 1874:. Depth of Water on Lower Lock Sill of Lachine Canal at Noon. DAY. .lANY. KBB'UY. tlAROU AI'UII,. MAY. .UlNB. .Ti;i,Y. Ai;a. BBIT. oct'bk. .nov'br dbc'hr. n. in. ft. ill. ft. ill. ft. ill. ft. ill. ft. ill.! ft ill. ft. in. ft. in. ft. in. ft. in. ft. ill. 1 34.8 32.2 30.2 29.6 21.5 24.0 22.0 19.7 17.5 17.0 16.7 16.2 2 34.8 32.0 30.8 29.5 21.5 24.0 22.2 19.7 17.4 17.0 16.6 16.4 3 34.0 31.6 30.8 30.1 21.323.10 22.2 19.6 17.5 17. l! 16.6 16.4 4 33.6 31.6 30.10 29.5 21.3 23.9 22.0 19.5 17.6 17.1 16.5 16.6 5 32.2 31.3 30 . ■; L'0.3 21.0 23.8 21.11 19.3 17.4 17.0 16.5 16.5 B 32.10 30.3 :;(',4 30 . 3 20.9 23.8 21.9 19.1 17.3 17. o: 16.6 16.5 7 33.6 30.0 :-, ' . 3 29.9 20.5 23.7 21.7 19.0 17.4 17. o! 16.7 16.6 8 34.0 30.0 31.5 29.7 20 . 3 23.5 21.6 18.10 17.3 16.111 16.6 16.5 9 33.9 30.4 31.7 29.5 20.2 23.5' 21.5 18.8 17.4 16.10i 16.5 16.3 10 34.3 31.3 31.0 29 . 5 20.3 23.7 21.3 18.7 17.5 16.10 16.7 16.3 11 33.10 31.3 30.9 29.3 20.3 23.6 21 .1 18.6 17.5 16. Ill 16.6 16.2 12 33.1 31.0 30.6 28.9 20.10 23.5 20.10 18.5 17.4 17. l! 16.6 16.3 13 33.6 31.0 29.3 28.10 20.8 23.1 20.9 18.5 17.2 17.1 16.5 16.5 14 33.8 31.10 28.9 28.10 21.0 23.0 20.7 18.6 17.2 17.0 16.4 16.5 15 34.6 32.0 29.0 29.3 21.3 23.0 20 . 5 18.6 17.0 17.0 16.2 16.5 16 34.6 32.2 29.3 29.8 21.5 23.0 20.5 18.5 17.2 16.10 16.2 16.8 17 33.6 32.0 29.10 30.1 22.0 23.1 20.5 18.3 17.6 16.10 16.3 21.3 18 33.10 31.10 30.0 30.0 22.5 23.2 20.3 18.1 17.4 16.11 16.3 23.3 19 34.6 31.6 30.3 30.3 23.0 23.2 20.1 18.0 17.3 16.10 16.2 24.1 20 34.2 31.0 30.6 33.0 23.5 23.3 20.0 18.0 17.3 16.9 16.2 28.7 21 33.6 31.0 31.0 31.9 24.0 23.3 20.0 18.1 17.2 . 16.7 16.3 25.1 22 32.11 30.10 31.6 29.8 24.2 23.2 19.11 18.0 17.1 16.6 16.4 27.3 23 34.2 30.9 31.3 25.5 24.4 23.1 19.9 17.10 17.0 16.6 16.5 29.10 24 34.0 30.5 30.9 25.10 24.6 23.1 19.7 18.0 17.0 16.6 16.5 28.9 25 33.6 29.9 30.9 25.0 24.6 23.0 19.5 17.10 17.0 16. 5| 16.7 27.7 26 33.0 30.6 31.3 24.9 24.4 23.0 19.5 17.9 17.0 16.5' 16.7 27.7 27 32.10 30.0 31.0 23.6 24.4 22.10 19.4 17.9 17.0 16.6 16.5 27.8 28 32.8 29.8 31.0 23.0 24.3 22.6 19.6 17.8 17.1 16.7 16.3 28.7 29 32.5 30.9 22.10 24.3 22.4 19.6 17.7 17.0 16.7 16.4 28.2 30 32.5 30.5 22.0 24.0 22.0 19.5 17.5 17.0 16.6 16.2 29.7 31 32.4 30.3 23.11 19.7 17.5 16.6 29.1 (Signed) A. M. RUDOLF, Harbour Master. 189 ft ubc'br. 1. (t. ill. 7 16.2 6 16.4 6 16.4 5 16.6 5 16.5 8 16.5 7 16.6 S; 16.5 5! 16.3 7| 16.3 3' 16.2 3 16.3 5 16.5 1 16.5 i 16.5 2 16.8 i 21.3 i 23.3 5 24.1 ! 28.7 i 25.1 I 27.3 ) 29.10 28.9 27.7 27.7 27.8 28.7 28.2 29.7 29.1 « ■i) t^ ,^, "^ ,*^ . ^ i ? 5 -^ (^ "C s^ ■^ -^ -^ s- .52 1 ^ e _r 'a ? -< .c *j tS «~ « 5 .>> ■*- S .^ .-3 <« • k; ■§ J <: =>> s> w h Z ^. -IS ^^ « o' ^ r s ^ J 1 -1 ^ •N u^ ^ 1 ■G ^0 h ^^ OC ^1 ^ »> 0. •^ lS j.^ S e 1^ *» !.. ^ Ci « ^ S3 ?i ? s . « « ^ §■ ^ q •S -^^ 4S 2 « « s ^ Sl ^ a = «0«*OMlftMt-C0«0fCC0'3iCC "^rHTtOt-OOOCO b s t— ( ^-( i-H i-H rH Cfl »-^ rH 1= <1> *: S > « -^ - £ii:' «i o^? oi^o,^"' 6>? 0>-5S2;»-5 ".-lrtCiJ35'*TtltD M M cqeoaimm^i-imm mamto-^oooco •5^ f-i c^-^o^Dinas-^c^o-ti^ inintD-*(MOt~iM Ofc .-« fo t- 00 » in 1- iM c-i 05 oi t- Ot-00Q0t-00-#-* 00 r-T 1-^ OD T«" «- -T uT oT -T ef in" orao~Ci ;o".-H 00 e>i M H S t^Tj^t^cDt-Oicqco^odirto 05O5in'-— < ^H c^ --(-.^e^coMfO'«t"'* b-t-l0O05->l>>-l'l'0000CD T)-e««DTj c-1 in t- 05 fo m 'M inosoiMOioo'tc-i i M^-^^ i-i Oi Cl r- Tji C«5 1-^CO_O^CC i-.r ^ cT cT co" c" c-f c-f c>f -f « OC r^ 00 05_ t-^ 0_ M_ fO^ ^ 1 -T ^ Vf '!<" i-T t-T i-T & inco^oint-f-tomot-M rlOi'tOOOOO^nCD C^ M r-t F-^ ^^ rt — rt (M —1 rt i-t t*-i iM X^ -HOOOiiON-^oooi^ino 00 m to iM (M 10 — ^- i-^ (M ^ c^c^c^i— fwinin-^Mc^i'^ mcOTjiioiOinT)"'* lO ^r-(r— TJ^mooc^ M^ o_ ^-^ r-Tt^ cc" co"i>^ in" c^" H rH ^HT} -1 rHMco- r. Of y > " 'i. 3::--^ i'O- OrJOMOt-OOCOOOMr-l ■"tTJtOC^INlOTJlTjl C<1 ^ CO M m N M cq m CM (N s^ „ _ „ ^^ „ K* «>^^ ■" b'2 b'E - - ^~ fe's ..-.-E-- >^-- -w a eS - - - 0," " ^ " " s ■ « a Q 52jO ?; «*H • in 00 T)(oo03Tjio-*minfooo> dt^inoooor-iinin ° >•;: 3 So ■* m tOI-OOOlOi-'C-lM-^iOO t-OOOO'-liMMT)' in 10 in in in ^ ""X* 'X' COCDCOl'-t^l^b^t^ ^ 00 00 ODOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOQOQOOOOOOO _<^„„„^„„__„__,, _ , I.. ^ i 2 '-[ ', * 191 DESCRIPTION OF WINTKR PMRN'OMENA IN 'DIE ST. LAWRENCE, CONTRIBUTED TO THE GEOLOGICAL SOCIETY OF LONDON ON THE 15th JUNE, ls42, HY THIO PROVINCIAL GKOLOGIST, W. E. LOGAN, Esq. " The island cf Montreal stands at tlio coiiflucncie of tlio livors Ottawa and St. Lawrence, and is the l!iry;fist of several islands splitiinjr up those nii^^Iity stix-ains which cannot he said to he tiioiouj^hly niinj^liMl until they have descended some miles helow the whole cluster. The rivers first come in contact in a considerahle sheet of water called Lake St. Louis wliich scpjii-ate the uj)i)er j)art of tiie island of Montreal from the southern main. But thouyli the streams hci'e touch, they do not mingle. The waters of the St. Lawrence, whicli are beautifully clear and transparent, keep along the southern shore, while tliose of the Ottawa, of a darker aspect, though hy no means turbid, wash tlie banks of the island; and the contrast of colour they present strongly marks their line of contact foi' many miles. Lake St. Louis is at tlie widest part about six miles broad with a length if twelve miles. It gradually narrows towai'ds the lower end, and the river as it issues from it becoming compressed into the space of half a-mile, rushes with groat violence down the rajiids of Lachine; and although the stream is known to be upwards of eight feet deep, it is thrown into huge surges of nearly as many feet high as it passes over its rocky bottom, which at tliis spot is coniiiosed of layers of trap extoudiiig into floors tiuit lie in successive steps. At the termination of this cascade the river expands to a breadth of four miles, and flows gently on, until it again boconu^s cramped up by islands and shallows oppo- site tlie city of Montreal. From Windmill Point and Point St. Charles above the town, several ledges of rock coinj osed of trap lying in floors, which in seasons of low water are not much below the suifacp, shoot out into the stream about 1,000 yards ; and similar layers ]iointiiig to these come out from Longueuil, on tlie opposite shore. In tho naiMow channel between these, the watei', rushing with much force, produces the Sault Normand, and cooped up a little lower down by tlie island of St. Helen and several projecting patches of trap, it forms St. Mary's current. The intei-val between St. Helen and tlio south shore is greater than that between it and Montreal ; hut tho formei- is so floored and crossed by hard trap rocks that tijo St. Lawrence has as yet jiroduced but little effect in wearing them down, while in the latter it has cut out a channel between thirty and forty feet deep, through which tho chief part of its waters rush witli a velocity equal to six miles pei- liour. It is computed that by this channel alone upwards of a million of tons flow past the town every minute. Between this point and Lake St. Peter, about fifty miles down, tho river has an average breadtli of two miles, and proceeding in its course with a motlerate current, accelerated or retarded a little accoi'ding to the proscnco or absence of sho:ds, it enters the lake by a multitude of ciianiiols cut through its delta, and forming a group of low flat iiUuvial ishiuds. [.: 'I I •I 102 Tin: front!* eoliiinoiicc aliout tlio oml kI" Xovoiiibor, and a margin of ice of some etrongth soon forms along tlie slioros of the river and aiound every island and project- ing rock in it; and wherevi-r there is still water it is immediately caked over. The wind acting on this 'j;lacial fringe, breaks off i^jrl ions in various partr and these pro- ceding down the -itrciia fonstitiite a moving border on the outside of the stationary one wliich, as the intensity of the cold increases, is continually augmented by the adherence of the ii'o sheets which have been coasting along it; and as the stationary border thus robs the moving one this still furtlier outflanks the other, until in some parts the margins from the opposite shores nearly meeting, the floating ice becomes jammed uji between them, and a night of severe frost forms a bridge across tlie river. The first ico bridge belou Montreal is usually formed -it the entrance of the river into Lake St. Peter, where the many channels into which the stream is split up greatly assists the process. As soon as this winter barrier is thrown across (generally towards Christmas) it of course rapidly increases by stojipiiig the progress of the downward floating ice, which has by this time assumed a charjictcr of considerable grandeur, nearly the whole sur- face of the i^tream being covered with it, and the (jnaiitity is so great, that to account for the supply, niany, unsatisfied with ilie supposition of a marginal origin, have recourse lo the hypothesis that a very large portion is formed on, and derived from the bottom of the river wheie apid currents exist. But whatever its origii , it now moves in solid and extensive fields, and wherever it meets with obstacles in ith vjurse the momentum of the mass breaks up the striking pack into huge fiagments that pile over one another; or if the obstacle be stationary ice, the fi'agments are driven under it, and there closely packed. Beneath the con- stantly widening ice barrier mentioned, an enormous 'quantity is thus di'iven, particularly when the barrier gains any position where the curient is stronger than usual. The augmented force with wliich the masses then move pushes and packs so much below that the space kept for the jiver to flow in '.s greatly diminished, and the consequence is a pe;coptible list; of the waters above, which indeed from the very first taking of the "bridge,'" gradually an.l slowly increases for a consiat when the par!; inp here begins, the iniimliilion riipidiy iiirnai-t-'. The coutiiied natuie of this par"^ of the tliainiel ull'ords a more ready resihtiuice to the progn^s of tbi^ i»e, while the ■violence of the current brings such an alundjint supply, and packs it with so much force that the river, dammed uji by the barrier w hicli in mciiy places reiici es to the bottom, attains in the Harbour a height uhually twenly, .-iiid sometimes fwenty-tive feet above its summer level ; and it i.-i not uuLOuimon between this )ioint and thi; foot of the current, within the distance of .i mile, to see a diU'eienco in elevation of several feet which undergoes many vajiid changes, the waters ebbing or tlowiug accordiii"^ to the amount of impediment they meet witli in their piogress, from sulnnerge 2, ... »i 3,j »» *, • • • j» 5. • *9 6,. •n 7, ... n 8, ... PLAN OF EXISTING HARBOUR. GENERAL PLAN OF IMPROVEMENTS. DIAGRAMS SHOWING PROGRESSIVE STAGES OF IMPROVEMENTS. ALTERNATIVE PLAN OF IMPROVEMENTS. PLAN AND JOURNAL OF BORES. . »»(»'( ^ li \ H / M iLSi^lB*^ h: ^ V* IRENCE, GS, i 11 ST l; ,m-* v-y % ■„•■ >= '-^ AN N9I i!7^ "•^'^mio.Bi^,, ^ ■ _-*•' l'^"-^<^i PLAN 'OF T H E ^ HARBOUR ofMONTREAL, Shewing the present Harbour & the River S' Lawrence, Compiled & Contoured from Surveys & Soundings, Made under the Direction of the BOARD OF ENGINEERS. BY Mess^5. r B.BtLL * D Miller, Glasgow. IS/L Tfire-r rfn NOTE f>lir /■'ilf/lii/ll /ill-- . < ti/itlllti/ //lli.\ Tun ifll i/r f/ll '/r> r/irrr i/ii i/r 1//1 r/o /'"III- i/ii ,/i/ ,/)/ ,/,) ScAit fiOO rr 1 Inch rr^ \ V ^^:r-i^r.>^ Ile Rc mm ST . //i ///If lo/tJiilfi/ f/ili,y V'nri ifii i/f ,/ii ,/,i /'/ir/f r/ii i/i' r//i i/,, /•'f'ftr i/it i/t/ ,/ti (/,i Scale 600 Ft 1 Inch IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) f/ /h ^ 1.0 I.I 1.25 U illlll.6 V] <^ /i v: / .^ v^ l\ ^ I \'~V X \ \ \ \\ ( \ \ x,\:x X ■^ I MPROYEMENT OF Montreal Harbour, Progressive Plan of Work. First Stage. FEET 100 [MiirTr: £ w /'' DREDGJNG I I \ \ V / \ / ^^ III ^^ C^,*^ <^ 1000 IIOO 1(00 FEET ^•^< ...,.^'-^}i^:v— ^.*g^ ..*,»-?"■ ;,::Q ,^-^-' ' • /'■/ V / DRElpC^"^^ \ -r---~-,__j^^&_ ST 100 MO Scale 1000 ztiihl: 1(00 tOOO FEET F 7 r.'^^^ '^^>. Plan N?5 l^plf^^?K^^P>^ ■ W^f f ^v^SpS^ / Improvement OF Montreal Harbour, Progressive: Plan of Work. Fourth Stage. FECT 100 EILHx-^- -'^-- 'W^^ •*«J«^^-r Scale sSs, ■ J, LT_X,,L-L.Ji: laoo ntJ MPROYEMENT OF Montreal Harbour. Plan Shewing Alternative Scheme for High Level Works AND FOR Breast Works. rETT iqo a r:n:3-x: oo.rs/f Scale ii-x:xi_r,.:i • www CasrotA mil .' ', ,' .": ;,< ^-"1---- ^— — — ' — WKi _^__— Wtb "^'rjn'rji Journal of Bores Nvimber 01 Test Vlt or OpKcmpnos OF M»T.aii*i. tAoao thiomb. Tlilckneu Total Deptli )0 n 12 13 14 15 10 17 18 19 •20 21 2-2 23 24 25 26 2R 29 ao 31 32 33 34 mrubt. Water, OrHvi'l, (lorock,) Watw Gravel, (to rock,) Water Gravel, (t^ ' jck,) Water, Gravel, (to •-•k,) Water Grav to rock,) WaiAir, . . • Gravel and sand, Water, Gravel and sand, Water Gravel, sand, and small boulders, (to rock,) Water Gravel, (to rock,) Water, Gravel, Water, Gravel and clay, (to rock,) Water Gravel, Water Mud and gravel, Water, Gravel, (to rock,) Water Gravel and blue clay, (tough,) to rock, . . Water Hard pan, Water Gravel, (to rock,) Water Gravel, (to rock,) Water •• Gravel, quicksand, and blue clay, (to rock,) Roek, (drilled into,) Water To nick, . . Water Gravel, (to rock,) Water, Gravel, (to rock,) Water Gravel, quicksand, and blue clay, Tougli clav, (to rock,) Water, " Gravel, (to rock,) Water, Gravel, Toiigli blue clay, (to rock,) Wiiter Gravel, Tc High blue clay, (to rock,) Water Gravel, quicksand, and blue clay, Tinigh blue clay, (to rock,) Water Gravel, (to rock,) Water, ,■,", 'A \ " Coarse black sand and small boulders, (soft,) . . Sand and small boulders, (very hard,) Water Coarse sand, gravel, and small stones, Loose sand, gravel, and quicksand, Quicksand and small stoues Water ■■ , •• „ C" u " Quicksand, loose sand, gi-avel, and small bouiaers. Do. do., more loose sand, .. Loose sand and gravel— a good many small stones. Do. do. do.. Water Quicksand, (hard,) Fine .sand, Coarse saud and small stones, Water, Bntt clay, (rock not found,) Water Coarse black sand and gravel, Fine sand and small boulders, Sand and gravel, F',. lu. 2 -0 6 1 -f, c 1 6 6 2 -1 6 1 6 1 6 1 4 4 3 1 .1 2 (1 1 1 4 from Low Wiit«r. Vl. In. 8 1 5 o 4 1 1 7 2 8 1 1 1 1 11 3 1 1 1 -0 lu I) 1 4 10 9 2 « 7 11 11 7 4 9 11 5 8 6 4 7 10 7 6 G t) 6 G t) 6 6 ti (I 2 o'o i"o i'o o"'o 2"0 5"o 4"3 SO 4 C 8 6 7"0 7"0 1 8 io"o 2"0 1 12 lb 6 2"0 I'o 5 6 11 22 ll' "o 20 " 'o 25 14 IS 25 33 ti Nnmlwr of ■rc!.t Pit nr Hnriug. 35 12 28 30 3(1 37 3S 30 40 41 4-2 43 44 45 46 47 4S 40 50 51 52 53 54 55 50 57 5S 50 (50 01 02 03 04 05 00 07 OS 00 70 71 DracittmoN ri' Matibiu. Pabkd THiooaa. Water Soft clay, (rock not found,) .. Water Clay, (to rock,) Water Pine sand, Sand and small boulders. Quicksand and small boulders. Water Soft clay, (rock not found,) . . Water Fine s;ind and a few small boulders. Water Soft clay, (rock not found,) . . Water Soft clay, (rock not found,) . . Water, Hard )ian and gravel to rock. Water, Hard pan and gravel, . . Water Hard gravel to rock Water Hind pan and gravel to rock, Water, , Hard pan and gravel, Water Hard gravel to rock, Water Hard gravel to rook Water Hard gravel, Water Stitl' clay and gravel to rock, Water, . . Clav and gravel, (very hard,) Water Hnnl gravel to rock, Wat.T Gravel and clay to rock, Water Hard gravel, (very hard,) Water Clay and gravel, Water Hard gravel to rock, Water Gravel and hard pan to rook. Water, Hani gravel, Water, Gravel and clay to rock. Water, Gravel and clay. Water, Gravel and hard pan Water Gravel and sand. Stone bed,' and soft clay beneath. Water Gravel and sand. Water Hard gravel to rock, . . Water Gravel and clay to roek. Water, Gravel and clay to roek. Water, Hard gravel to rock, . . Water, Hard gravel to rock, .. Water Hard gravel to rock Water, Hard gravel to rock, .. Water, .. Hani gravel to rock, . . Water Gravel and clay to rock. Thlokneu Total Deptli of from btniU. Low Water. c Ile Ronde \ ^f A R Y'3 C U R R E ^f J. ) ® : ® ® MOLSONS WHARF ~ ~**^^i/lj^ Improvement OF Montreal Harbour, Plan & Journal of Bores, Taken in Bed of River. Scale FBET 100 WO 1000 ki: T-r-r-r-r-T-rT:ni:iZ]i.Tl ^