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II Kt a Select Committee be appointed to consider the Military Establisli- ments and txpenduure of the British Empire in the Colonies, in eompleiion of the Inquiry wh>ch was commenced in the last Session of the last Parliament, and to report their Observations thereupon to The House. And a Committee was appointed, of- Mr. William Gladstone. Lord Viscount Ebrington. Lord Stanley. Sir Henry Hardinge. Mr. Spring Rice, Mr. Herries. Mr. Ellice. Sir Rufane Donkin. Mr. Hume. Sir John Byng. Sir Henry Parnell. The Earl of Darlington. Colonel Fox. Mr. Shaw Lefevre. Captain Gordon. Lord George Bentinck. Sir Charles D'Albiac. Colonel Grey. Mr. Gisborne. Major Fancourt. ' Sir Harry Verney. Mr. Grote. Colonel Evans. Colonel Leith Hay. Mr. Robert Gordon. Mr. Bonham. Ordered. That the Committee have power to send for Persons, Papers and Records. Ordered, That Five be the Quorum of the Committee. Mercurii, 1 8° die Martii, x 835. n?tTc?V7 "^V; ^f°*';,''%discharged from any further attendance on the Committee • lid Mr. Guest be added to the Committee. «-""iiiiiiiti, , Veneris, 22' die Maii, 1835. Ordered. That Sir George Grey be added 10 the Committee. Veneris, y die Julii, 183,5. Ordered Jh^i Sir Rufane Donkin, Colonel Leith Hav Mr I cider Mr h;„ji ., Martis, 4* die Augusti, 1835. Ordered, That the Committee have power to report iheir Opinion, toeether with the Minutes of the Evidence taken before them. ^ wgemer with THE REPORT - p. Ill MINUTES OF EVIDENCE .... - p. 1 APPENDIX P- 80 INDEX - - - . . 'Mk- mlt III lisli- th« port H E P O R T. -y. be THE SELECT COMMITTEE appointed to consider the Mxmtak. EsTABosHMKNTs and ExPKNniT.UK of the BaiTisu Empike .n the CotoNiBS, in completion of t!. Inquiry which was commenced n the last Session of the last Parliament, and who were empowered to report the.r Opinion thereupon, together with the Minutes of TUK EvioKNXK taken before them to The House ;- -Hav. con- 1. Resolved: «„4 fr.,„e:,r; c'lin. b1,; .KS'S r/S^nt r''?;""™- done a™ compccn. .„ aLirr'thelJi^'f ^SCm''- ' '" "°™'""""' 2. Resolved : 3. Resolvkd: prtk„l.r .Al,cr.li„„s „r !l„l„cti„„s, re e,om" ,0 j' W 1 If r,r°"':"'"'''"T 4. RliSOLVKI) : ana tiicy tbe.cfbre caH tf.risrTS'Si.^^tt ;!;;;:; "r^T'^'''"'"''';:^ expenses of articles annually distrilnue.l ,o th h,," ' Iw'tl "" '" '^^ man may not be made to dispense with sue ' dii bi^ oV^j^.^f fi^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 'T """^""g^- thc presents for money. «'Miiuution m future, or to commute 5. Resolvld: cl,anRc«|-,„u„i,s»itl.fclircncetol«lil" "™"» 'l'«' !'"« WloweJ the 4 /If/irM.sy IS'X), I' *- L iv ] \ LIST OF WITNESSES. Jovis, If/' die Martii, 1835. Robert JVilliam Ihnj, Esq. Lieutenant-general Ralph Darling .... Maitis, 24* die Martii, 1835, Lieutenant-general Ralph Darling .... Mapr Joseph JValiclicld Claptain Ilvnri/ Smjjth ...... Robert IVilliam Uaif, Esq. Jovis, 26° die Martii, 183.5. Thomas Archer, Esq - - tJeneral Sir Peregrine Maitlund Martis, 31* die Martii, 1835. Lieutenant-colonel Horatio George Broke - - - Robert IVilliam Hat/, Esq. ------ Martis, 7° die Aprilis, 1835. General Sir Ililgrove Turner - . - . - Colonel William Smelt ...... Vayita'in Sir Thomas Cochrane - - - . . C'olonel Thomas Burlie ...... Francis Robert Bonhain, Esq., M. P. - Jovis, 9* die Aprilis, 1835. Robert William Hay, Esq. ------ Mercurii, 8" die Julii, 1835. The Right Honourable General Sir James Kempt - Martis, 14* die Julii, 1835. Thomas Archer, Esq. --.--.. Veneris, 17" die Julii, 1835. Deputy Assistant Commissary CIcneral William J. Greig, Esq. Mr. Henry Chapman ------- Mr. William Bryan Mr. George I'airfoul -----.. Mercurii, 22" die Jvilii, 1835. Deputy Assistant Commissary-General IVilliam J. Greig, Esq. F . 1 P • 4 P- 8 P- 11 P- 12 P- '5 P- 18 P- 24 P- 27 P- 32 P- 34 P- 38 P- 40 P- 4» P- 4» Veneris, 31° die Julii, 1835. Mr. William Green • p. 42 p. 44 p. 54 p. 72 p. 76 p. 78 p. 78 P- 79 p. 85 T \ \ ' ] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. Jovis, 19* die Martii, 1835. SIR JOHN r.YN(i, IN THE CHAIR. Robert Jf'illiam Hay, Esq., called in; and Examined. 1. YOU are Dmier Secictary of State of the Colonies, are yon notr~I am. 2. Will yon inforni the Connniltce what steps have been taken liy the (iovern- ment to cany into elVecl tlie reconinK luiation^ of the ("onnnittee on Colonial Military Exptndituie?— The Conimiltee are aiia'.e that the i^reater part of these reconnmiulutions relate to pnispectise rediietions, svhieh ajiply, in most instances, to distant qnarters of the world. All that eonid he done, therefore, in most cases, was to send ont provisional instrnctions, and I nnderstand the Treasury have recently issued a iMinnte calling the attention of the departments under llu ir control, to the Kesolntions uhich relate to the dilVerent hranelu's i)f the piihlic service. As far as relates to the deparlnienl of the vSicretary of State, I may state to the Committee, taking the Uesohilions in the order in >vhieh they stand, that «ilh reliience to the Eilth, an arraniiemint has been made at (iilaaltar, \»hich, althontih not preci>elv enjoined, yet is in the spirit of this Resolution. 'I'he in- spector of health has recently cume home in a state of heallli w hich renders it unlikely he "ill he able to rcimn, and the liciitenant-iio\ernor has been instnieted, ill case of a vacancy occnrrinj:, lo revert to the former piaetier, by whieh the charue ot in-peetin;: the (luaranline was kit lo tiie senior medical otlieer of the •laiiiMtn. li\ the Ninth he>ulutiun it is recommended, that tiic present amount (it loree in the Ionian lslan(l> should be diniini.>lied by one regiment, whenever the military dclences of I'orhi hlinulil be completed. 1 have to >tate on tiiis point, that since the last mettinj; of this Connnittee an enmineer olllcer ot expi rienee and great local knowled,L;e ba'^ been sent ont to Corlu to report upon the extent to which the nnlitary works there ought to he carried, and on the amount of the iliture exptnse: that report is now under the consideration uf the (iovernment. Rut in the meaniime it mav be riiiht that I should inlorm the Conuuittie, as it is a measure which will ad.a'nce the object which iheir Kesolulion IkuI in view, that the Lord Hiuii Connnisr-ioner who is going out to the hmam Islands has been insliuetcd to 'organize an Ionian battalion in the islands: into the details of the scheme I cannot enter, bteause the measure has only very recently been decided upon ; ol couise it will not have the ellict of tacilitating any immediate reduction 01 the forces in that (piarier. W'itii regard lo tlu Tenth lUsoluiion, I presume it is known to the Committee that .Majur-gentral Sir IIov»ard Douglas, \«ho is going ont to the Ionian Islands as Lord High Commissioner, has also been appointed to the command of the troops. The stall in that quarter is also to be rcdnced to the scale ucomnundrd bv the Connniltic. In eontormity with the object aimed at in the 'lliirteenlh Resolution of the Connnittee, a pioposilion was last year made to the Ionian uovernment to counuute for a gi\en sum the vaiious charges whicii they have paid hitlieito under ditVcrent heads for the nnlitary protection ol the islands. The agrcinient bv which this eonmnHalion is to be etVeelid, has not as yet I ren finally" coucluded, but liie suia to be puid by the luuiuii ji,overiinient will o.ii. B probably RuUrl rrm. ffay, I'^sq. 19 March 1835. I Hn/iDl II m. I'j Mai ell 183 il 2 MW'UTRS Oy RVlDKMCi: HF-FOllK SF.f.KCT COMMITTEE Hm/, Drobahly be 3;,.noo /. a ytuir, anil dn Hppropriutioii lie brouijlit niiniinllv iiiidcr the iTvision of Parliament. Uitli leijanl to the 'rnintii tli Iksohilioii, ii'is ri^llt that I shoiilil oli-crve, that at the time »viin> tlic Coiiimitlce last sat it (Upeiidcd ii|)()ii the icMilt ot' a rcteroiice to the i>l,uul wliftJKi' a re>;iiiu'iit could not l)e dispensed "ith iVoni Ceylon. It li.in been lound inipossihle to reduce the force; for, indc- |)endent of the ordinary duties of the islmid, n de^jree of discontent has hcen created anions some classes in tlic island liy the almiition of forced lahour, which made it inexpedient to uithdraw any part of the fon'e. I am not aware that there ore any other points advert, il to in the Ilesolutions upon wliich 1 have anything fur'her to state. ,;. Wiuit is the order in which it is proposed to examine the !{eturns which have been prepared for tiie (.'omniitlee r It woidd be most convenient to tlie Colonial Ollice, aial would not, 1 appn hend, be otia rwi>e to the Committee, that the colonies should be taken in the followiu;; order : in the first instance, the Australian provinces; from thence to proceed to tla' North American, and then to conclude with the West Imlies and the .Mauritius. The Returns are all to be found in the Appendix to the Report of the Commillee, and of course it will be for tiie Com- mittee to surliest, si Id any additional Returns be wanted. 4. 15e uood enouizli to iuforui the Connnittec the nauu's of the j^nvemors. tbrmer and prt sent, their s;ilaries and emohunenls - Captain Phillip was the lir.st governor ot New South Wales, wlio went out in 17SS, and who appears to have enjoyed a salary of 1,000/. a year ; to him succcdled Captain Ilimter, with a salaiy of l,Soo/. a year; the next i;overnor was Captain King, appointed in 1 Soli, with a salary ot J.ooo /. a year; Ca|,tain llligh was the next, enjoyin;^ tlie same salary ; to him .succeeded Cohaiel M'Quarrie, in iSio, who enjoyeil'lhe same salary, -.vitli appointinentson the stalV, ainountiuji to aliove i.oou /. a year; the next jjovernor was Sir 'I'liomas Hrisbane, appointed in iSji, whose salary did not exceed J.ooo/. a year in the outset, but who was also appointed majur-,i;eneral on the stall'; his salary vva.s increased in tiie year 1SJ4 to ^,,-,00/., vutii an additional salary from the Colonial I'uiul, makiui^ in the whole ..|,S(ii /. ; to iiim suceeede . (reneral Darliiiir, in 182-;, whose pay and emoluiiients altofjietlier amounted to ,'),;5()3 /. ; and when General IJourke, the present i;overnor, went out, bis salary was iixcd at ."i.ooo/. per annum, without any other enioluiiRiils what.soever. 5. lias the uovernor a house pro\ided lur him : — There is a liovernnieiit-iiouse in Sydney, but it has been lor .some years past in such a dilapidated slate, i.'iat the ;j;oviriior has been oiiliyd to reside at Paramatta, wiiieli is ili miles distant from Sydney, (ieiiend Darling went out to Ni.vv South Wales in 1S.J.5; he was empowered to take measures for repairing this Iioum , 1 r in liuild a new one ; but it ajipeared to uiui that otiier |)ublie buililiiiiis were niae ui gently required, and tiny wen' nndedaktn in piLkrence; he residiiii^ out of the town. ' Since (ieiieral lioirke uenl out, il Iki'^ been deeiiled that the iioveriimeiU-house shall be eom- inenced, lor tlie baildiiiif of which, necessary estimates have been sent liouie, and at^reed upon by the Treasury, the fuiuls arisinu tVom the sale of land in the town. Tlie (.'overnor will tlu 11 i;ive up the le-ideiice al Paramatta, and be coiilined to one bouse in town. (>. lias not the novernor abo 2()2 /. a year, unattached pay ?— Yes, be has. 7. Then the arrungeineut tiuit he is to have :,,(h)(i/. a year for bis allowance, does not exelude his unattached pay as a fieneral otiicer .^--No ; in no case. 8. Von do not eoiisiikr. ihdi, that the arraiii^einent lias been departed from : — In no d( i;ree. <). How is the rent of liie bouse at Pariinatla paid for "r - It is (iovcmiM.t property, and will be (iiypo.sed of fur public purpdse^. 10. Xou, will \()u answer the same fpiestion witii re«p(ct to the ;,'overiiors of Van Diemurs Land?— The lirst lieiileiiaiit-siovernra- was Colonel Collins, who was apponiled in the year l.S(i4, with a salary of .(-,0/. a year. Colonel Colhii.s died ill 1810, and was siKceedeil by Lieuteiiaiil Lord, Captain Murray, Colonel Greils, until Lieut.-Col. l)a\ey as^unii d tlie l';ov( rnuieui in iSi j. Duriiiij the greater part ol this period, a s aiaiy of 4-,o/. pir aniaiin was also provided on the Pailiamentarv K.^tiiiuiti s, lor anoila r lieulen,iiit-;;o\irnor at Port Dalrvniple, on the iiorlheiii side of ll;e i.^l.iiid. (_.'(, haid Sijiel r. as appointed uoveriicr in' 1S17, with a salary of Soo/, a yen', which in .laiuiary iSjj, uas laistd t(; i,.-,n"/., and in 1NJ4 to -S'lOo/. Cdhaiel Artiuir, tlir present uowiiiur, u,is appoinieil 111 I1S24, will; a s:il:iiy iif i.v.d/., wiiieli in iSj;„ ua.s ' rai:s; il lo ■-,:,uuL, wiiicii is hi., prL.-eiil salaiy. Culoni I Arlhnr enjoys no otiier eniolinnent, ( Acept an aliowaiiee ill t ! 1 ON MILITAIIY KSTAIJLISIIMKNTS IN THE Cor.ONIKS. ;i t ' I in lifii of forngo I'or three liorses, iiiul provisions in i this time reached the colony. IT). Can yon };ive any intormation to tiie Committee respectinj; the force whicii is settled as the body-;iiiard at Sydney f-Tlie jiovernor's body-guard was institute(l by Capt. Kin;; in 1801), and consistetl orii^inaliy of seven soldiers, who Hero taken Irom the ordinary military force on tlie sj)ot, lo whom was j^ranted the dillerence between their regimental pay and the p.iy ot dragoons ; this increased pay and the expense of tiieir cloliiinij being ciitirged upon the colonial revenue. Tlie Secretary of State, at a later period, objected to this guard, and he was induced to allow its CDiilinuance upon the representation tiiat a certain nmnber of niounted men v\as necessiuy as expresses, and to attend the govenmr \\\nn\ his jom-- niesinto the interior; and General Huurke was instructed, when heaent out in iS ji, to consider liie propriety of reducinj^ the governor's body-guard, and bis attention was called to the sul)JLet l)y the late Secretary of State. It appears, however, by 11 despatch whicli w,is received in December last from (Jeneral Hourke, tliat lie had taken measures for abolishing the body-guard, and fcjr substituting mounted orderlies in lieu of tliat force; but ks it appears that this arrangement will not be attended with any economy, instructions have been sent out to Cieneral Bourke to "ct rid of that force altogether. 16. 'l"he mounted orderlies? — ^es ; whieli have been employeil as substitutes for the governor's [)ody-guard. 17. What is the amount of the governoi's body-guard? — At one period it amoimted to 12 men and two seijeants, at an expense of 430/. a year. iS. Wiiat was tlie amount in the year iS;j4? — 'I'he exjunise of the mounted orderlies, we lind by the last accounts to amount to 4.'ii)/. III. The amount of force wiiieli you have stateii, includes the troops at Van Diemen's Land and Swan Uiver al.-o, does it? — It has done so hitherto, but it is now intended, the troops Mliich will be re(|uired lor the service of Swan Uiver should be detached from St. Helena, to which island a regiment is to be dispatched in the course ol a very short time. 20. (ieiural lidurke nported that lie had not sulVicient force to send the troops from Swan l{iver to New South Wales, did lie not? -lie ilid so; but Colonel Arthur lelt more immediately the inconvenience arisiiifj Irom that, because the ^wan Uiver detachment was .>eiit from \'an Diemen's Land, and the communi- eatioii betuc'ii tliuse points is very uiilVe(|iunl and dillieult to accomplish. JI. Can the actual distribution of tlie troops be Imiiished to t!ie Committee? — \'es, up to the 1st ol .May 1S34. ■J-', ^\'llat penal settlements are now ke|>t up in our .Au.-tialian colonies ? — Tiiey have been reiluced totwii; luimely, Norfolk Island, and what is called Taslani I'eiiiusula, in \'aii Diemen's Land. 23. The amoiml of force lor New South Wales has always been of the same description of troops, legular troops, has it : —Yes, with the esciption tli.ii, on two occasions, veteran companies were raisul lor that particular service, but tliey have iKjt been lound to answer, and have l.icn disbanded. J4. U !iat IS tne mounted police at New tSoutli U ales y— The mounted police was originally established by Sir Tliomas Hrisbane, to check the outi.igt ,s of the bush- rangers ; the poli•"• /■ ; 1-.. What E-q. nj Miiiili iH.'f). ■M 4 MINUTES OF KVIDENCE HEFOUE SELECT COMMFrrEE iii.ui H'li). Ilfi'i, 'i^- \^ lii>t is the uinuiiiit of tlie force : -'I'licy Mtrc iiicrc.iscti hy (ifiiiinl F.si|. Duiliiii til loi) liiLii. • jd. Tluiv is lU) force of thiit (Icscripiion in Vim Dicmcn's I.aiul iit all, is ly Miiitli i8j5. there? — TIrtc is no inoiimcii pohct! in lli.il i-htnd. J7. Wh.it is the ainoiiiii of tiie cdloiiiiil n venue of Ni!vv South Wales niul Van l)i( nun's Land? — I'he uveraize in Nc»v Sinilh Wales is Ijo.ooo/. u year, unci that of Van Dieincirs Lund ul)uut 80, 000/. u year. :jS. Ls that the fjross amount or tlie ne» amount ' -Tin; net revenue. 29. Is tlitre any iiiiiiliu ? — 'I'here is none; the |)r>)jret of raising a corps vois snu^ie^ted some years a;;o, and the linvcruor uus directid to report upon tiie pruclicahilily of tliesciieine; but tiie seilU'is were stated to lie so un«iNin;{ to leave tiieir farms, in cuiisequt-nce uf the iunviet pupuhitiun, that tlie .scheme Hent no luriiier. 30. Is there anv povcrnmcnt ddit in i iiher of the colonics? — None whatever. 31. Are troops rei;iilarly .sent out «iili the convict.^ f — The force is iicpt u|) hy occasional detachments in e.icli C(jnvict ship. 3.>. Will you state to the Conimiitee the population of New South Waifs? — The popultitioi. of New South Wales is upwards of ("10,000, of which mure than :2^. 000 are convicts, aceordiii!,' to the last census in 1833. In Van Die- men's Laud there has been no cen?us suiee 1 8,]o ; the population of that island is upwards of 30,000, of which more than 1 J.ooo are couviets. 33. Do j'V-i conceive the increase to have been very considerable in Van Diemen's Land since? — I should think so; the number of emijirants has been coiisi(leral)le in both colonies, 34. lias the iiiiiiiber of convicts, accordiu;» to your belief, increased or de- creased, havins.' relation to tlie en'iie populatiiai .- — II has inerea-^ed by a late regulation, by which tiie hulk>. sysliin has bieii aholisiied. 3.> So as to occasinn a more rapid nicreuse in the convict population than in the otiier portion of the popul.ition ? —Yes. 3(i. Tliat new renulalion vvitii respect to the hulks has not operated, witli resjiect to the t«o nuiiiheis \ou have liiveii, has it?— No; it has no ri'iereiice to tliose Ueturns, because neither Uetiirn is l.itir than 1S33. 37. Can yon iutorm the Committee what is the nuiuner of eniiurants that have been sent out by the Cio\ernment, of late years? — The numlier of ()ersons who have l)een sent out sinei the loruialion ol the Euiij^ralion Couiuiissiou, in the year 1831, upon lo.iii, ir. 3,400, and ol unmariied liniaks, sent out by the (ioverument, 2,il,'> for tiie same period. 38, That is f^tiieraJly to New Sontli Wales and \'an Dienien'a Lr.nd, is it? — To the Australi.in piovinees : the Custoni-liou?e Returns t(M' tlie years 1833 and 1834 make a total ol" (i.Suj, l)nt from that must he deducied some portion of the first class Hluiin I liavi: uieiitioiied ; tho-e lli.it jio out in tiove; niiient vessels au- not reckoned in the Cust>)m-hoiise Returns. 30. With relereiice to tlie auiouiil ol the Cianuiissiriat force, do tin y not pi()vid<' for the convicts as well as the troops? — They have to piovido for the niainti nance of the co'ivicts ai o, 40. Is tlitre anv medic, il .-i.ilV ( s'abli.shment ? — No, there is not. 41. Is there any oKiiiance e-t.il)li-limeat :-- .\o ; hut il is ()iiiposed shortly to send out an (jidnance ollieer to take care ol the piiiilic bnildinu:s. I'he i.iK; Hoard of Ireasury .-uiijiesied that •J;',,0(io /. ptraiinnui .-liouid l)( tikin froin the colonial revenue ol New South Wales, and rj.uoo /. pi r aiiiiuin liom thai ot Van Dienieiis J.aiid, to assist in defiaviii;; the eliar;fes cnniiretid «itli tiie emiviet (>stahh>hment, of which tlie chief are the police, the uaol-, and other siuiil.ir piililie buildini;s, and the colonial marine, wliicli in employed in eonveyin;^ toiivicl-. noiii one part of the coast to another. 4J. Is there anv iiit rea.ie or decrease of the staff contem|)lated at the Colonial- office, in New South \\ ales ? There are no staff appointments there which would admit of reduction Lieutenant-General Ralph Duriiug, called in ; and Kxaniiutd. Lifiit.-r.pn. 43. TIIE (-'ommiltec understand that you have lately held the novernmerit of J{-///)'i Darliiif;. Kcw .South Wales? — Yes ; 1 was relieved at the end ol the year 1831 ; 1 lelt on the ■22 1\ of Ortiihcr jSji, 44. How nianv years did yon hold that government? -Very luurly six yeai^ ; within two mouths ol that [leriod. 4v I'" ON MILITARY RSTADLISMMENTS IN THE COLONIES. a 4,';. Do you reniembor what wum tlu; atnount of re^ulur force at the period Ht i,i»iif..li|;ed to take the field, in conse- quence of an irruption of the natives, 1 sent him a large detachment from my own garrison. 4(). The force, durinj» the period that you hold the government, varied from time to time, did it not? — it must have done so, from the nature uf circunistances in New South Wales. /JO. You went to New South Wales in the year 1 824, did you not ? — No ; I arrived there in Ueceuiber 1825. 51. Hy a llcturn now before the Conuniltee, the number of troops in the year i8j,', appears to base been i,'28o, and when you (piitlcd it, which was in the year 1831, it appears to have amounted to 2,.5()8?— I think that must be a mistake. /ii. Can you explain the distribution of the troops, so ts to make out the difterencc between the number of i,j8() and 2,. ^^S, which appears in the Return before the Committee ?— It appears that J.^tiS was the number on the istJanuaiy i8ji ; tiut the 57tli retjiment was then under o.ilers, and had proceeded to India Leiore I left New Soutii Wales, which was the end of October 1831. According to the Memorandum wliieh I have here, there were 2,049 altogeiber, when 1 left the command ; 74(), rank and file, of that number being stationed at Van Diemen's Land. This ajtpears by the Memorandum which I took from a Return yesterday at the Adjutant-nenerars oHice. ,'',3. That was the last y^ar yon were there, was it? — It was at tiic time of my (iepartme trom New Soutii Wales. .'',4. Docs that include some little local detachments? — It includes a com[)any of vetirans, since di>b.uiik'd. There was also a detachment belonging to regiments in India, whirii had been sent out us a guard over convicts. ."j-,. What was the body-guard ? — The body-guard consists of a non-commis- sioned officer and six men ; at least that was the lunnber in my time. The body- guard and mounted jiolice are formed from the corps composing the garrison. .",(). Can you stale the cause of ti)e great variation whieli arpears in the amount of force r ^\ ill yi>u inform the Committee how it is occasioned ?— The regiments are sent to New Soutii Wales intermediately on their way to India, by small detachments, 30 men, as a guard with eacii convict-shi|), and thence to India in larger boilie>, one third of a regiment at a time. ,'57. Will \oi: slate how they proceeil from thence to India? — The orders were, thai when the hall of a regiment lurnishing guardsfor the convict-ships should have ai'iived, the re^jiuienl which had been the longest in the conunaud should be sent on to India, liut, from the insufficiency of the garrison, it was never in my power to send away more tiian a tliird of a regiment at once. The change of troops is tiierefore almost constantly gnin^ on, anil the strength of the garrison is con- sc(|Ui'nlly tluelualing. ,58. Are there many detachments from New South Wales besides what go to Van Diemen's Land ? — A great many detachments are employed in the interior and on the coast of New South Wales. ,",9. Are there many besides ? — ^No ; there is no island dependant on Ne*^ South Wales but Van Diemen's Land and Norfolk Island. 60. What are the interior stations where dctaclnnents are placed ^ — They aie very numerous ; « hen I came away tiiere were about i 8. By the Return I saw yesterday that nuudier appears to have been reduced a little. 61. The Swan River was n^t founded when you came away.' — Yes, it was ; but it was totally independent oi New Soutii Wales, altliougli tlic gurriion «:;s taken from one of the corps under n)y connnand. on. jt 3 ^i- Did 6 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE I.ifut. Gen. Hnl,,l, Ihnliug. Kj Maich 18 J,-,. G2. Did you include tlic Swan River among those detachments ? — No ; that detachment was sent o\it direct t'roin Enj;hmil. (i,]. Are vmi aware that within the hist year or two tiiere has been an incn;ased demand tor detachments in the Sv\an River Was there any attempt made durinsj tlic t .le that yon were there for the purpose of embodying any mihtia force? — Xo, tliere was not; but Lord Bathnrst menlioiuii to me, wnon I was going out, tiiat it had been suggested by a gentleman tlien in l'"ngian(i, Major M'Arthur, an.! his lordsliip desired that I vvouhl consider it, and lot iiim know if I thought it at all advisable ; it certainly appeared to me not to be advisable. 6(>. Y(»u do not consider it desirable, then, to form any local force, do you .' — I siionld sav not, from the comj)osition of the population of tiie colony. 67. What aie the peculiar features which yon refer to in tiie population of the colony? — From there being so many convicts wiio are servants to the settlers. If a militia were- tbrmed, and the settlers in the course of iluty taken from their homes, their convict servants, being free from control, woukl in many ca^es plunder and pe- haps niiu them during their absence. The constant residence of tiie settlers on their pio|)erty is an object of great importance in such a colony. (is. It ap()ears from tlie po|)ulation Returns before the Connnittee that about two-filths are convicts, and the remainin'' three-lifths settlers r— -The remaininentences more ispecially are sent. Colonrl Mini isetls salary was paid in the same manner as the expenses incurred on aeeouiit ol the convict I'stablish- inents generally. 71. It is put down as paid out of the I'ai liauii'ntary grant"-— That is a grant to provide lor the expenses coiisiipient on the traiis|)ortalion of convicts. 72. As regards the number of ollicirs, is there any sil'ialion that could be rediiceil ? — Certainly not ; I think they are on tlie lowest [)ossihle hcale. 73. Is there any thing else you can suuijesl to the Committee upon any of these points: — I have a paper here which I have draun up, conlainiiiy some sugges- tions, which, if the Committee will allow me, I will put in. ll'licJolln'ciiiLi; I'djjcr n-(i.s l/icii Jiiil in mid vcad.\ MIC.MOHAN 1)1 -M res|)i'i;iiiij5 die Stai i and (J vniiisON of \i'ir South llu/t's. '1111, lroij|)s employed to f;iiriisuii New Sdiiih W ales :ire di-persed over a very eonsiiler- al)le exleiit 111 eoiiiiU y, ami oc< iipy imt ie-s ilmii Hi ililieieiit sialioiis. 'I'liis iieies^-uily iiiviilves a liieiil ileal o( ileUiil, anil iieeasioiis a ^n..it deal us taken in iS;;3, more than one-third appear to be aclual convicts, men iiiuh r senteiU'C ; and (i\e-sixths of the whole number are probably convicts, or the descendants ot convicts. As the convicts are dispersed over the colony, and the worst characters emploved in large gangs in making and repairing the public road-, it bei'omes necessary to spread the troops and occupy various slaiauis, with a view of keeping the prisoners in snl)ji'ciiou. Several of the slalions are much more than too miles, in the interior, from head-(|uart< rs ; while others are accessihle only by water. The imilliplicalion of stations and posts adds malerially to the duties of the Statf; that is, a large body of troops, when concentrated, may not ie(iuire a more extensive Siall' than a much smaller body which ;s wiilely disjiersed. 1 would also respec'fnllv submit the ex|;e(lieney of appointing a Staff Surgeon and two assistaii's to New South \\ iiU's. 1 apprehend ihere is no command of that magnitude without an (ifiicer of rank of liie General Hospital Slaii'. New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land are undoubtedly liotli very healihy stations, Ijut llie (fispersion of ihe troops renders it im(io-sible tor the Uejiineii'al .Miiali' to atieiid to ibe detachments of iis own corps; and it nd to. iijili Match i!S35. A*. ]). \. /{._-'|'bc scale I have proposed does not exceed the Stall" allowed for colonies s.imdarlv circiinisianced. The Cape ot (iood Hope, for iiisiaiici', wliiili, from Kxal circum- stances, is perhaps iiuae on a par with New Seiilli Wales than ;my other command. At the Cape the follow iiig Staff appears to be employed : m/., 1 Assistant Military .''I'cretaiy. 1 Deputy Quartermaster-general. 1 Major of lirigade. 1 Acting ditto. 1 Town Ma)(M. 1 Cominandant, ut -().•.. pit diem. ;? Ditio, at smaller salaries. I Di'piilv Inspector-general of Hospitals. ;, .Assistant Surgeons. A Comiu.ancl.int is as uecessarv at Sydiu v as he is at Cape Town, as the (io.cnior cannot conduct or alieiid to ihe details oi' the garrison of' the touii. R. I). 74. l)iil tlif regiiiiriits ixoiiiii t'toiii New Smith Wales to Imiiii on botlilv of l)y (It tachiiieiMs ;■' — Not liciiiily, its it was tiivt f in my |nn\er, us 1 liav(! stiitctl, tu detach so ial'M' it iuiii:l)cr us 11 uliole legiineiit at once; i tlit'ieloiu sctll alioi.^ a third of a ii ^iiiient in\av at a liiiie, ami as oilier miards ariiveti Iroiii Kiejilanil avaihil iiiysell of stiili ailditittii to tlie jiarrisoii lo lufwaril tin; rciiiaitider ot the col |1s to Iiuliti. 7,",. W itli regaid to the comitiissaiiat, do yon coiisiiler it lillicr snllicieiit lor tlie pttrpose Of itioic than is tuitssaivf — llie coiiiitiissariat cstiibli^lniictit alwavs Miipi aiid to nie to be vt rv lafi liml tllect .i|i|)ointiii:^ a lioar took I vciy possilik; pains to ii'iince il ; (I on one oectisioii, tiiit 1 1 It .statu \\lnn i;oiiiL! tiito II 0.1 t. as very ititicli stifpnsial to cxaiiiitialioii, lliat llicfc wcic .several tons ot 1: 4 accotttits 8 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Lieut.-Gen. Kalpli Darling. I'i March 1835. I.ieiit.-Cen. Rn/pfi Darliiif^. 24 March 1835. accounts and vouchers for examination wiiich were put away in a room ; yes, as I understood, several tons hy measurement. 76. Did that board report upon the state of the commissariat to you? — Yes, they did, and I sent the report home ; and I ihink that the 'JVeasury, in conse- quence, dispensed with those accounts being examined in New South Wales, and desired that they should be sent home. Their examination on tiie spot would have interfered so much with the other duties of the department, tiuit the greatest inconvenience must have resulted from it ; in siiort, it could not have been effected without a large augmentation of the establisliment. 77. Your opinion was, when you left the colony, that the commissariat esta- blishment was not disproportionate to the duties it had to pertoi ui "—1 cannot say it was, presuming that the individuals employed discharged their duty with diligence. It supplies all the convict establishments, as well as the military, and therefore their dutif?s are very extensive. 78. That is from the number of stations? — Yes; there were about 18 mili- tary posts when I came away, besides the head-quarters, and a considerable num- ber of convicts to victual, wlia are dispersed in gangs all over the colony. 79. Would not their duties be increased by the constant arrival and depar- ture of troops r— They would. 80. Do you recollect what was the number of deputy-assistant commissary- generals you have had ? — It varied a good deal ; first there was a smaller number, then I think the Treasury adopted a plan, as a measure of economy, of bringing several deputy-assistants from the half-[)ay and employing them, instead of per- sons who did not belong permanently to the service. Maids, 'J 4" die Murtii, 183j. SIR JOHN inN(;, IN THE C H A I H. Lieutenant-General lialpli l)atTni;j;, called in ; and further Examined. 81. 1)(^ you wish to state anything in addition to your formir evidence? — I should beg to explain the evidence I gave respecting Xorlolk Island. I was asked whetlicr I had any ()l)servati<)iis to make with respect to the othceis enumerated in a list which was shown to me, and as there was no sinn stated opposite to that of com- mandant of Norlblk Island, it did not occur to me to say anything upon the subject. 1 wish to observe, that the otliccr w ho hild that situation, Lieut. -colonel .Morrisset, an unattached oilicer, received a salary of (ioo /. a year. Now my opinion is, that that appoiiitnunt may be very well (li-|)ens('d with, and that liie duties, as formerly, can be perlormid bv the otiieer conimamlinL; the dttachnients, who received 10 ,y. a day in addition to his military pay. Tlie duties are of a civil nature, and the salary or allowance is paid from the money that is granted by Parliament for the transjiort of convicts and tiie expenses attending tlie establishments, lor liieirsuper- int<'nilencc and inaiiitenanee. 02. W \\\ vou have the gcjodness to explain the nature.' of the duties to wiiieh vou refer? — To superintend the discipline and employment of the convicts who are sent there under sentence of the courts. S 5. .And you are of opinion tlial a mililarv otVicei- liable to be clumiied from time to time, is a'- tit lor the pel lorinanee ol tli;it ihity as a lixed civil ollicer !-• — Vim ; hhoiild an oliicei jiiovc unlit lor the eiiarge, the governor could remove him and appoint another to the situation ; CoIoik 1 Morrisset «as unattached, and sent out fr MINUTKS C)l EVIDRNCK I'.KFORE SFJJ'.CT COMMITTEE the Gov.innunt o» Niw Soutli Wales ?— The statement in tliis P^port has re- iercnce to the year 1829 ; it specifies 4 879, and I am not aware thai there was' at any tnne a jjreater numhtr than this. .)7. II. seems that there arc 4,879 convicts, and there are ^j, 107 rank and file making' i.itogetiier m round nnmhns, al)out 7,000 persons, for whom the commis- sariat has to provide ; liow comes it to l)e necessary thai there should he an ex- penditure upon the commissariat department in Anstraiia of 16,4-,-)/., and tliat there should L ■ 84 commissariats and clerks, uhile in Cevion, where there ar^- 4,82,'5 rank and hie, which is more than half tl:e uholc establishment for whici^i the comm ssariat has to provide in Australia, the whole expenve of the commissa- riat in Ceylon IS only ;5,699 /., and the whole nuinher of commissaries and clerks 17 r — I cm only observe, that the military posts and stations where the con- victs are employed are very numerous both in New South Wales and \-an Diemens Eand, and every station necessarilv occasions ailditional expense \\ here there are 50 or tio convicts assembled, th"ev have to be victualled and pro- vided tor. 'ihe convicts m)iler punishment, as stated in mv former evidence, are kept in can^s ami \\or\e(l on the roads, iS,:c. 98. Is the providinir lor and provisioning a certain mimiier of convicts more lahoiions to the cemmissarial than thai of makii).; provision tor reriments =— I am not auare that it is. • ■ 91. it appears that in the Ionian Islaiuls there are a ureal number of stations and It IS stated that there are no cU rks, and but seven' commissaries to supply -\()S3 rank and hie, yet the whole expense of the commissariat there is ■' 7 1 > / • how It yunr opinion that the c.Histanl arrival and de|.artnre of troops and the constant arrival ol convicts make it relanees render a larger establishment necessary than It the numbers were lixed and not constantly tluctuatiiiir. 101. Do yon consider the •governor's "bod v-guarcf at Sydney as absolutely necessary .J— I hcfj tojiive in this memorandum, which I drew'up on the snlnect iii consequence ol tne (piestions that were put to me when I w..s last before the Committee, wliich will lurnish an answer to the prese attending the establishment is a small allowance in addition to their military pay, and their clothing as light dn*g(,ons. llie total annual expense of the establishment, as stated in the Third Report ot the Commissioners of Colonial In(|iiiry, dated 1st Xovember 18 jo was 103 /. 10*. 2 i d. In.k pendent (,f the policy of distinuuisbiiig the goveriua- in some degree by the attendanee ol a nuamted ordiilv, the duties which they perlorm arc- not allogetlier unimportant. '1 hey furnish two orderlies daily at the .'overnment house, which orderlies would otherwise be takui hom the oarris.j,, ; U'.vsv orderlies take letters, c^c. to the several public ollices and to individuals in the town When dispatch IS necessary, they ar.' sent with (adeis and other conmnMiications into the country. Iwo generally atten.l tlie governor when making his inspection of the detached stations, and air, in bict, necessary as a guard when he is tiavellin-' to the remote districts. I believe there is a similar est.iblishnu nt in most, if not all the colonial govTrn.ncnts. There was at Mauritius when I held the administraliou m the years 1819 '"'"' •8jo. I !*'",■ ■^V''.-,"" """'■'■■ "''" ^'"'^ '""■^' ''"■'' ''^■'" "»ume>.ted since that time ■— I think .Mr. I lay told me it had been augmented since I came away. 103. Are you ot opinion th.it one iion-commi^sioued idlicer and.MX iirivates are quite sufticient?^^ is. ' 104. Are the non-coinmi-si ; I let't New SIX years in Ne>v South Wales. 11 ,5. How long have you been returiad from South Wales in July iS;}'J, for India. lit). The regiments ih^re are i;ir;itK delaelied, are they not ? —Very muih; very distant trom Jiead-cpiarters, and very smad detachments too. 117. Is the leipiiMte duty there hard M|>on tiic troops ? — Yes, I think it is upon those in the interior, particularly if stationed over road-gangs. I 18. I'pon an average, how often are they called upon to mount guard? — I really do not know, but I think very Ireipiently tiiey have not more than two nights in bed ; often only one ; perhaps sometimes they may have three. 1 1 1). At the time vou wt-re in New South Wales, it appears there were but three regiments? — T"wo m New South Wales, and one in Van Diemen's I^and. ijo. Are the duties reciuireil not only numerous but various I-' — The duties are various ami numerous. A great deal of escort duty is required, which is very fatiguing. , . , • • , 121. It appears that there is a great numlier in the commissariat department m New South \Vales ; are their f^ervices much called for there : -Yes ; but I am not ac(piainted with any commissariat de|iarlment in particular; I do not know what numlier they have. \-2l. What detaehmeiils over eoiuicts are there in New South Wales .' -There are convicts where most of the detaehmeuts are ; but Moreton Bay and Norfolk Island are tiie penal settlements oi New South Wales. IJ3. What is >;enera!ly the r»lati\e sicengib of the detachment and the number of convicts at each station, upon an average ? —1 will state the force at the stations at which i was : at King Cicorge's Sound, where I was for two years, (I went th< re when it was tirsl settled) I had a serjeant and 20 rank ae.d tile, and about 30 convicts, but they were men of belter eharaeter than you generally meet with, picked men on purpose, that they mi^ht clear the ground, rai.se huts, and act as niechanics. I was if, monltis at Norfolk I-laiid, and I think thr.re were about 300 convicts there at that time. \\ hen 1 liisl went down, tlic strength of the detaeh- mtiu wa.s about (14 rank and tile; it waa atterwards increased, and I believe it is now ijo, or perhaps a few more. The convicts had no barracks, nor ha I the holdieis, so that I re(]nired at that lime rather a strong loree for the number ol pri>oners. o.n. c 2 \2.\. You Mnjnr J,iS,i,h U idrliilil. Major Joseph yViikefUld. 34 March 1835. 12 MINUTES OF KVIDFACK HEFOilK. SEUXT COMMITTEE IJ4. Vou have spoken of tlic comparative streiijrth of the troops ami convicts at the liiUerent stations ; it appears that at Lonu-holtoni, Spriiimvood, and Weathcr- honrne, ut each ot the.se i)laces there is one sini-le sohher, and no other inihtarv person ; on uiiat duty do you suppose that iiuhviihial sohher can he emph)ved :— I cannot say; one man «ouhi l)e perfectly useless; perhaps he may he left in eharjre ot the Imrracks vacated hy tlie tle(aehnient, or he a mounted police-man stationed on the road. IL',';. Are they ever allowed to he servants to civilians?— No. \ib. Do you know tlie stren^tli of tiie fjovernor's hody-j;uard ?— I do not know the strength. I think there were ahout 12 w 14 mounted in Sydney; hut 1 do not know. 127. Hiive they mucli duty to perform ?— I am not aware of any diitv except atteiuhufT the governor, anil eanyinn despatches oceasionallv hetween Paramatta and Sydney. I am not aware that tliey perforin any other duty. 128. What is the whole extent of coast of New .South Wale.s, wiiich the troops have to guard ?— I think horn Sydney to Moreton IJav is al)out ^m miles to the north eastward. King Ceorge's Sound, I helieve, is li.-oo miles to t!ic westward upon the .southern coast. 1 29. How far docs the guard extend iiiK rnally ?- I d„ not know the extent of It, never having heeii along the houndaries myself. There is a stroii" detaehni'Mit •at Ualhurst, which is 120 miles in the interior of the coiinirv, to the westward 130. Were you ever at \'an Diemen'.s Laud:— I liave "heen there three times but never f|uarlered liieie to do duty. ' 1.31. Is the duty there equally severe upon the troops as in New South Wales? — 1 cannot sav. Capt. Ilciirv Snnilh ill ; and Examined. ." — Since 1 S04, in tiie ;ji|th From the latter end I ' - Captain Iloirj/ Smyth, 39111 Regiment, called 132. MOW long have you heen in the service regiment. 133. How long were you statitJiud in Xew South Wales ot 182(1 to Deceinher 1S32. 134. During that period were you often in detachments .=_ Almost the entire of the time. IS,-;. In command of detaehnientsr— Ves. 130. Is the duty severe upon the troops there:—! think it is rather severe. I have always aneied there was a p.uicity of troops in the stations wiiere I have been, tor the duties they had to perlorm. .My lirst station was formin.- a lew .settlement at the northern extremity of Xew Holland, called Kallles liav^ which wa.s atterwards ahan.loiied, and I think, with that of .Melville Islaial, concentrated in the one now ormed hy Captain Stirling at Swan i{iver ; hot!, those .settlements were abandoned about the latter end of iSjS. Suh..e.pantlv I was sent to l>ort J\lacr|uarrie. • 137- As you have served in .so many places, do yon consider the comparative duty mNew South Wales is more har.i or more li^ht up.m the soldiers thm, in other stations where you have heen ?-It is much harder, I conceive. 13s. ^Ooc' «''"t 'nclude Van Dien.en's Land:- N„. I know nothing of Van Uiomen s Land. I am now sp.aking more partuMilailv Iron, the sohlier,,' heonent coinplaint^ to iiu ot the hard duties they had to perfoim, especially at Port i\lae.|uarrie, where they had only a night, or a night and a half in l.'ed. ft is customary or soldiers so to express themselves. I fre.iu.nilv made applications tor re let; but as the men were .sent to head-piail. rs, the nu.i.hndf the .letachment wa.sallowepect to the barrack department, there appeared to n.e to be \ ant of comfort and a want of regularity which di.l not exist m those I have seen at other places, but tlnit is m.Mcly a matter of opinion ; I had .... ac s upon which 'a form ...y J^lgment, but it appeared to n.e that the barrack department in gLMural wa> nut conducted «ilh the best regularity. ,(•,, Was the commissariat department satisfactorily conducted, as regards the „Hicers and men?-! think particularly so. Sometimes the contractor tor bread Hi not Luc that of the bc'l quality, and con.pla.nts were then made, but hey «;' e"eme.he.l ; generally speaking, the bread they supplied was very go..d, and tht meat also was very gooil. ,,;.. Had you anv opportunity of judging whether it was economically con- " -■ • • ' ' " , ducted. Smi/tli . i8;lG. / 14 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMm EE Capt. Ilenri/ Smi/ih. ducted, with reference to the public service? — I Imd no opportunity of jiidniin' In 84 March i8ir * Certainty, liut there iippenred to me to be nothinj; to tlie rever,-e. ■*' 163. Or uiulher its cstnhhslmicnt wns luri;i; rel.ilively to tlie duties it bud to perform: — 1 ,iid not consider it extensive. There appeared to me to be u jjreut deal of reij;nlarity and a L'rciit deal of attention in that esiahlisbment. I{i4. And you have bad >;reat experience in tlie supply of troops by the commis- siiriat? — I had. In j;oinu out to RalHes Bay, I was unfortunately supplied with .«onie very inditfcicnt sail meat, but that was the only instance. iOff. In point of fact, tlie estalilishmint there is laiger, relatively to the mnnhcr of per-ons fur «hom tliiy have to provide, than yon have known them at other station- ' There are a ijrcat number of indiviiluals employed in the commissariat there? — Yes, I think it is very possible there may be ; but the commissariat have to supply an immense number, the troops and convicts to<;elher. i(Jt). Then you do not tlni'k the est.diiisl.nent too larye lor the number they liave to provide hir r — No; I think they are very actively employed. 167. Hut you think the hairack department is ill rcf-nlated, or mif^ht be better orj^anised ? — Yes. I(J8. Do you think it ^vonld be iin|>roved, supposin;» it was transferred to the Oidnance? — Y»s, I have not a doubt ol it. 1 69. There arc a lireat number ol" public stores, are there not, under the chariie of the couH!iis,^ariat ? — '\'e-', there are. 170. Do you think their ililVnsion over a ureal extent of countrv renders a greater number of coniiuissariat otHcers necessary.' — Yes, that is the reason. There is a diHiciilty in the tran-^port ot provisi(JUS to out-stations, and svhen sent in anv maiinitiide, slioidd be taken charge of by one (d" the dejiartment. It is very (lilficidt even v\itli a serjeant who has only 12 men to perform that duty. lie may be jujiplicd y a conaactor near to his station, and then he may do very well, but he eotdd not do il where there were a couple of hundred people to |)rovide tor without conimissari.it assistance. 171. How loniidid you serve in the Peninsula : — From the latter end of 1810 till our arrival at lioideaux and Tauliac in 1814. 172. Durinii that period yon had pretty ^ood experience of «hat was required in the commissariat department r--Yes, I liad. 17J. With reference to what you said befun?, that a Serjeant and 12 uien miiiht have the churue of stores and provisions, should you not think that at lion^j I5on^, where there are only 12 men, the deputy-assistant commissary-i;eneral nn^lit be retrinched ■ — If that is the only duty he has to perform, lu; nuiiht. 'I'hat is a di- rection in which I have not been, but I think there are various stations concen- trated in one commissariat duty, and somewhere in that neifjlibonrhoud. 174. You have slated the duties of the comnjissariat with rci^ard to the c m- viets ; then I suppose you by no means look on the connnissariat as exclusively u military establishment ? — No, certainly not ; 1 consider it includes the whoh;. 17/5. Hy whici) you mean, that if there were no C(jnvicts there, the troops would not require anything like the present establishment? — Certainly not. I7(). May I ask Hhether you consider the convicts under the charge i)( {jovern- nient woidd retpiire a larger number of commissaries to provide for them than the same inimber of King's troops would: —I do not perceive why they should, as the distribution is nearly tl:e same ; intact, as no spuils are issueil to the convicts, there is rather less duty in providiuL; for them. 177. Are :'iere not superintendents over the convicts? — Yes, sehcled iVom tiiemselves, in some instances ; in fact, in nniny instances it is indispensable, such a nuiriher as there are in the road-gangs, who have onlv to throw do«n their spades and ste|) out of sight immediately; it letpiires a great deal of attention to keep these men in order. 178. It has been stated by (leneral Darling that the nundjcr of convicts mider charge of the governor is about ;3,ooO, so that the convicts and King's troops together amounted to between 7,000 and 8,000 ; it also appears from tins Return that the number of connnissaries and clerks amounted to between 80 and (jo in the Australian colony, whilst at Ceylon, where the troops are very lunnerons, .O.ooo rank and lile, there are but 17 CDinniissaries and cletks; why is llu're si> nuicli dilference m the amoimt ? — I should think the extent ot llu; distribution is much gf' ater in New South Wales. T'lie extent of conntiy is veiy consid( rable. iJuihiir-t is upwards of 100 mi'es; Norfolk Island, .Moreton Ray and IVjrl Mac- (piurrie are iit a great distance ; various otli'-r stations are very nmch di-tributod and difficult to communicate with. / ^ ON MILITARY KSTAnLlSHMF.NTS IN TMK COI.ONIF.S. 15 181U / 1 34 Miircli 1833. Jiobert milmm Hay, Vm\., Unilcr Secretaiy for llic Colonies, called in ; and further Kxaniined. 17«). WHAT is tlx; present iiiiiount ot the Ixidy-nimrd 111 Sydney r— Ihe bn ly- ,,^^^ uuiini 1ms heen superMiled l)y u certain number of ()nierlie.s, us (lenerid llonrke has reported in a (kvspiiteh whicli wi.s reeeived ironi iiini in Dweinhcr lust. I he Secretury of State lius since directed that the expense of these orderlies should lie reduced, conceivinii that they were only a substiti'*'')n for the hody-guurd, which was eoiisidiriHl unnecessary. iSo. What Ketutus relative to Nova Scotia do you propose to lay before ttic Connnittcer- I |,ropose to produce the Returns whieii were |)rinted last year. It has not heen thonfiht necessary to reprint them, because the chanfrts w hich have taKen place since the lust year I shall he ul)le to tsplain to the CoinnnUee. 1 should \vi4i to eontine the "evaiuination to-dav, if possil'li, to Nova Scotia, New IJrnnswiekand I'rime Kdwal■(^^ Islan.l, allhoii;^h Newfo>nuliand is included m the Nova Scotia eoininand, and tlmetore appears at the head ot tins Uetnrn. lU'rmuda is a separate eoinniand ; hut 1 should propose that NevxfoundlautI ami ik'rinnda he taken tojictlier on a t'ntnre dav. iSi. Can vou furnish a Kelurii of the ttVective force in Nova Scotia up to a later period than I'Sjj '—1 Inive ohtained from the .\djntaiit-.neneral's otiiee a Uetnrn ot the etleetive toice iij) to March last, as lar as it can he ascertained (xce printed Taper in Appendix.) It contains the amount of loice lor the last \ear in all the colonies, as well those which have heen under examin.ition as those which are to lie examined into; it is supplementary to that Return v\ hich i- helore the (Jom- initlee, in the Appendix to the printed Papers. 18.'. There is no maierial alteration heiween the force in 1833 anil i8;54? — The amount in 1 K.; ; appears to have heen .'.I -)i, now it is ■i.D.^t). i8j. Can yon iiilorin the Coinmittte as to the distribution ol the torce lielongmn to the Novii Scotia cominund ?— 1 his paper (.sec printetl I'aper, Appendix) contains the el, appears upoo the e,ti.,mles one trainin. .^[y annuallv : in No ^io,h. h " ■ ^ ^ Tr'"''''' "• T '^ ""'>' MX). .\re there (urts or other puhlio works to he keot" nn = Tlw.r, : .4 mo \W I "'"'T '" ""' l">l'''l'"i-" '•'• ^■"'■1' r-mvineev-ln Nova Scoti. I4-. 'o Neu;I5rm.sw,ek, 7J,„„o ; an.l iVinee K.lwa .f. Man.) Moo * J9,-U. nnlu,a have not heen tor any period en.ploye.l, have u:^'::!^,. u.ey vr:;Ki'u;;;^;;;tt;,;'r^t:;^rt.;'t •:':•:. T -" -••^t""" •"--■^- Jccor.iin, to the present law. th^ i^'on; . "t .^ '" ^"^".[I't v"" iJrnnswiek, where the milit-irv ; '" •'"•'- t''< '^' '"'•'' I'Lrn no incrciise ot force since 1 S - . :--V„ ■ ,|., ,., ;;'„:^ "■'■^' ■"""■ » •• ' .'5 :i r';;;;;™:;:;!;;:;]'::^^;!- 004. ""■^ the appoiniirient of (leiiutv adiiii'ini ,r,.iw.r,l i ]■ ■ . not about to he Isconti.iu.d "- T, '•''"•'" :-""''' ''7'" «l'.^co:un.ue!l, or is it abolished. ■ *'" "''"'■ "' ''''"".V ^"Ij.'lant-j-tuerai has been ■-'0.-,. Since when.-— Snice the last y-ar ^:.?:rN;;;:';;;:r ■„;:; ™i:;!::*;-; : -™ • '^'^ -■»■ !™" - s;' .;: co„„„a„,l,„s. '"^""»'-'l'«"« "I IN.^ i>-,l„,[„, ,„„ „,„i „,. ,„„ „„.^,-, in s n:::;,::;::!^:!';:;;::;;,;:!;;;;:^;'''" r' t- "--'^ "-■ - !-.... of torce incre:..e of iorce I \n t TZ \ '"""" ^^ '''N'"U.. hnl there has be,n no another re,nnentwl::i:'!^^,':~ -^"-"^ "- -n, on, — '"- -" --^•■''^■'■i^li-.;::i.r';;:ra%:;;^a::;;7^ tiiat i ON MILITARY ESTAULISIIMKNTS IN THE COLONIES. »7 that in coiisc(|uence of the applicution of Sir Arcliibulil Campbtll, u rcgirncut was Robert Hm. Haw, sent out. I (lid not .stutr tliat uii addiiionul force uppearcd in tlic Return. t»q. aoH. Wiieii was tiidt • — IniHjj. — 2()<). In conscqu(!ncc of wiiicli Hp|>licution, however, no increase has taken ''♦ ^'''f'"'' '835- place ?— No ; as tiie enieraency at the same time arose elsewiiere, and a rorinient was talvcn away from Halifax for other duly. •Jio. Would the present state of tlu; houndary question su^^est considerations aj»aiust a redurtion ? — I should think it very un» ise to reduce the force ; the fron- tier to he jjuurded is a very extensive one. •-'11. Has there been any reduction in the staff in New Urunswick within the last year: — None, as far as I am aware. 21-'. Have there been any ilisUirbancis in these colonies whicii re(|uire troops to act u|>on any particular occasion :— It liHd been tor some time reported tliat the niiliiia were orfianisinf,' in the province ot Maine, and the j^overnor strongly urged the necessity of Imviiif,' an additional force on his own fiontier. 213. If the militia was organised on a better footing, and a strong civil police established, migh' not that admit of a reduction of tiie troops? — I sliould appre- hend tile regular force wouhl be more likely to conduct themselve-^ with propriety, and there would be less chance nf lainguig on a collision tlian if militia were opposed to each other on that frontier. 214. I think you said the militia force was not poi)ular? — Xo, it is not at all popular in the colony. 215,. If they were employed would they be nearly as expensive as the re>»ular troops? — I should imagine tliat they would l)e. ° 21(1. Do the trodps in Nova Scotia receive rations?— Yes, they do. 217. For whieh they pay bi/. a day ?— I believe it is now reduced to ,5^/. in most (|uarters. 21 8. \ ou stated that the revenue of Nova Scotia was (18,000/. a year, ami yet that it is necessary to come to Parliament to provide for the pay of the governor ; wouhl it not be |)racticable to make some retrenchments in tiie expenditure of the colonial revenue, so as to prevent the necessity of coming to Parliament ? The government lias no control over that portion of tin; colonial revenue w hich is at the clis|)osal of the Assembly. 2 1 (). The necessity arises from the deticieiiey of that revenue ; and is it not ri<'ht that I'aiiiament siiouid have some means of preventing an application of that sort arising: — That revenue is under the coiiiiol of tlie Assembly, and they dispose of it as tiiey think best. 220. IJut without some limit or control «e might be placed under the necessity ot granting mucii more ?— It v oiiid be very desirable to make some arrangement with tiie Assenil)h-, if possible, by wliicii tliey niiglit take a larger jiortion^of tiie expenditure iijion tii'Mir^elves; liiit it has not iiitherto been found practicable to accomplish this oiijeet. 221. Suppose Parliament sliould refuse to grant what it is proposed to ask for the governor -—The result would be that a governor with smaller emoluments must go out, and the present governor come home. 222. Do you eoiieeive there might be any retrenchment made in their colonial cx|)enditiire? - I tind tliat large sums are expriuled in making roads and bridges. 223. Tliey expend large sums on their own jiroperty, and seek to make yood the deticieiu-y i)y a grant of money from this country ? — The chief items of their expeii- ilitiue ap|)ear to he tor local improvements. 224. Would it not be calculated to create dissatisfaction in tiie colony to call upon them to give up a part of what tliey appropriate to local improvements, towards the enioluiiieiit of a governor from this country ^ — It would be a very unpopular measure ; much discussion has already taken place in tlieir Assembly as to the amount they would be disposed to give towards the civil establishment. 2-.'-,. How is that amo'uit raised, tlie amount wliicli tiiey give; is it by taxes absolutely imposed by them on tiie colonists? — It arises principally from duties of excise and customs raised in tlie colony. ■226. How is the amount determined of the sum appropriated by them to civil wuiks? — I'iie As^enibiy determine as to the amount to be expentle'd i)v them for provincial olyeets. 227. I tliink you said 2,000/. quit rents was assigned to the pay of tlie governor? -£. 'j,ooo/. was specially as/.gned by the Assembly to this object, the 0.1 1. sum to lUhrrt H'm. Esq. 94 March jSj,',. 18 MINUTKS OF KVIDKNCK IJEFOllE SKLliCT COMMIUKK //n», to l)c urnntrd ii» r comimitutioii for tlu< t|tiit nnts ; it is in part (inly ol' the jiovernoi's .sulury. ~ 2j8. \s tluita IImiI |H'iiniiiK'nt ii^rt'ciiitnt now r As Cur as it f;(n's, it is. 2JI). I las tilt" Crovtn hiirn iidi rtd all its ciuinis to «|iiit riMits on tliut comlition, tiint J.odu/. shonid tic; assjiincd to the piiy ol the governor? — Ye.s. ajo. Was tiic I'rown ol o|iiiii(in ihnt it eould r((|iiir(' no lurner .snni than 2,000/. for tlie salary of the novtrnor ■ — No, the CniHii «as f>liid to ^u-t what it could; the collection of rjiiit rents hciiij; a most iin|io|inl;ir ineaMiic in tne province, iimt one uliicli had not heen resorted to lor some years past. j;ji. lias it jiUvays tiei 11 the practice to make good the novcrnor's sulury hy a H;rant of jjooo/, in that pioxiiicer— No; this arran<.'emcnt first took place in last year. ■.';}2. When did this at first hef-in ?— The v\liole of the fr„vTinor's sulury iva.s paid hy this country until a very late peri Land at this niomciit; I thout;ht the inijuiriesof tlii. Committee would he eoidined to New South \\ ales, lor whTeh colony 1 am i)re|iaied to j;iv(; iuforinalion. -J,')- )Vill you state what lias heen the reduction in New South Wales.'- i v\ill. At the time the Return was |iiepared and suhiuitted to the Comuiitlee ol last year, the department, as hir as was then kiu,wii at the 'J'reasuiy, consisted ol theiiumher s|)eiiti(d in that Ketiirn ; hut hy siil)s{i|ii( nt iiilorination, it apjuars that in the course of the year i S j,; the nuiiiher in New .Soutii Wales was n duced to 'S persons, haviui; heen previously /■, 1. •J.JIi. Are you speakiuL; of commissaries now ? -I am sp(iikiu{> ol the depart- ment collectively. 2;}7. lucluilini; issuers, stiackecpeis, and overseers and in. snenm'rs, undso.in^ — No; I am s|)eakiii.; ol ( iimuii.^siuit ■. and clerks ; i.i.\r tin; i>i of .March i.S}4 tlie nuinher was lurtlicr reduced to Ji) per.-oiis. J3.S. 'Ihe Coiiiuiitlee ohserve thai the whole expenditure of the commissariat in New South Wales, in the Return of 18.J.5, was 10,714/.; liow much is that expenditure reduced ?—'l'he rethictiun wliicli took place in the jear iS.jj as to iiunibeis, would he hnnid, 1 hilieve, to he ahoul seven or ( i;;lil persons less tliaii the niimher relurned in the paper whicii Ihe Committee have heloie them. Tlie further reduction in the yi ar iM.n produces an aimual saviuij of i.oj.-, /., hut lli.s is the diminished chaiiie U|i(jn the last reduction ol iiuuiher, I he iKluclion in ihc year iS,;.; (H'ected a savnii;. hut 1 am not picjiartd to say what i^ the auiounl of that saviiiij. .',;(). \\ilh all these reductions, there still seems to Ik' a j.'reat disproportion hctween the expense of the coininissariai stall' in the Auslialiaii provinces and the other stall's ; the medical stall', for example, a. coinpaied with other cohjiiie-, ; how do \ou account loi' t;].ii. -ji.e ^iivue in liu' colony of New Soutii Wales is peculiar: the coininissariai are employed in a variety of duties which are not allollid to coiii.o' .isarie- on olhi r stations. -•■fo. Will i WMITTKH lart (inly ol the n's, it is. tl)ut condition, mil than 2,(iim)/. wimt It could i ■ |irovinci', iiiui or's suliiry hy a ik place ill last salary was paid c MU.H first (lis- :;ntr — Yes, the lie also enjoyed ni in conumita- hv considered , and it is u.)t K. >. and (ii clerks • icinin's l.aiid r cnt ; i tliiamht ales, tor which Vales?— 1 will. :ec ol last year, ol the nuniher irs lliat ill tlie reduced to jS nt the ikpart- r>, and so .m ' d .Muicij iiS_J4 c conitnissariat > iiinch IS tliat ■ar I S;j;j ;|s to sons less than e tht'iii. IIk; '-'.'( A. lint this ilnclion ill the the auioiinl nl t tlispiopdrtioii viiiccs and thi- (■oh.'iiici ; liow I'Utii Wales IS inIiicIi are not •4 r H ON MILITARY KSTAULISHMKNTS IN TIIK COLONIES. it| •J40. Will von speedy iheni r--Fcrliaps it will he satistaetory if I put into the T. Arrker.EB^. hands ot the Committee a paper which is explanatory ot the duties. — — — 3ii that th«y refjairi) ihb as-iiHlance of it iirt'ttter naniiicr of piTMiliN lliaii would he rcqiiisitt' d' the' ttcrvice wen- purely military, and the ('xpt'Uihtuiv anile lliau duuhli' wlmt It now is; lieenu^e the nrrmiifenieiitfi iniide witK reiinr I to the tioops will In very tew, it any inHtiiaci's, apply iiUo l« Ihi' convict estahliith- nieiits ; n (ait which the tollo*VMig ()li-.t'rviitionH will iin dniibt exhihit. The nt'ceHsity of inaklii|r Hcpiirute and ilislinrt HrraiiLtciiu'iits, liolli ,ik to uceountH uad otlii'r matters connected with the convicts, cntiiils i(biaiice services Is procured, sup|>liid and appro|>riated tliri >ii:h the niednim ol the eommissarint. At Svdm y. a» the head-cpiarters, all the t'cnrral arraiiijenients of the departments are of course tirsi made, and there the duties are (llvlded so as to ensure etlicieiiey in their per- formance, in the tii'st place, iht otlicer in chartje has an ollice, to assist hiiu in generally supcriiilendin'4 ami controlliiii; the service under his direction. riiere Is also an establlslimeiil for the reei ipt, custody and issue, both in bulk and in delall, of nol oiilv die provisions reipiired at Sylmy but at all the ddFerent out-posts; a duty which Is at once \ery rcsponsihle and recpilres several compL'teiit persons to perform it. Apart I'rom this, there is a depot of stores, tools, Implements and clolhin;;, which could not be ahoijethi r dispensed with under the siip;iosilioii that such supplies could be more advanLij^^eiaislv procured (Ui the spot by contract. I'he cash-otlice is unollier hiaiich llu(iiii;h winch all the numerous ami complicated trans- actions have to pass, and from which die iiiiportaiit accounts of the money expenditure have to b( rendered in a (it state foi audit. 'I'he additional d ity which devolves upon this oHice as connicled with the convicts is very jireat, liaviii;.' to pay all the salaries and other expi uses appeitaiiiini; to that service, and render (let, illed and very particular accoiinlB o( the same. .\hhoui:li most of the payineiits ,ire now made by clie(piesoii the colonial banks, still the duty IS not nuich diminisjied, as the accounts, which althou|;Ii they are as sim- ple as they can be reduced, recpiire crpially as much allciitioii as before. At I'ariimatt.i, which is the next station in point nl importance, and disiant If, miles (icin Sydney, the convict and other estil)lisliiiieiits iirc extensive and numerous, not only in the town but for many miles round the nel^liboiirhooil. The nia^iaiine at this station lieiiii; a very i;(H)d one and t lii^ibly situated. Is used as i recept.iele tortile ^;ram periodically received (iom coniractors; a circumstance which eiiii.\nces the iiiiporlance of the station. Windsor Is situated :jti miles Irom Sydney and n from Paramatta, in a district where there are several convict and other establishments. Hathiirsl, llic piinciiial inland station, liti miles from Sydney, is where all the duties conncclcd with the convict and other estiililislunents westwanl of the lUue Mountains are t conducted, and which could not he bleiuicd with any other station. l!oni;-Hon;j; is a stalaai So or (|o miles scaitli-we.s'tward of Sydney and eastward of the 1 Hhic Mountains ; and is the centre of an exit nsive district (the southern part of the colonyl * where theie are several coiiMcl and other establishments, all of whom have to depend upon ■ r the j»uMic sloti's (or Uicir stibsistence. Newcastle Is a sea-port (io miles north of Sydney, and forms an openiiii; to the extensive district of Hunter's lliver, where theie are troops, eonviels, inounted police and surveyine parlies de|K'ndeiit on (iovernmciii for their subsistence. . 0. 11 . D 2 •'"" 20 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT C(;MMITTEE 7. ^rcAfr , Esq. Port Macquarr e is about 130 m.los further north, an.l forms an outlet to thp thIp,! . ';°""*'"X '" 'he vicinity of the river Hastini;s, wliere there are also fronV. ° J . aC March 1835- denen.ling for subsistence on the public stores ' " "'"^ '^"""^''^ Moreton Hav and Norfolk Island, the former about 400 miles northward and ';„. Un.. about .000 miles north eastwanl of Sydney, are now the only two emrsctt uel A each of these there is a large establishment of convicts, to.rether with tl r nn ., .^ i . Each of the divisions at Sydney as before described is, with re'"' ^•"" ' 24.>- Vou have spoken in that paper which has been read of the ad.iiiional dut.es uluch are thrown upon the commissariat by reason of the present I o f M^m^iying p,;ov,.,ons m.d ston. .or non-.nilitary purposes, and of \L ' i ' - . km« provsjon .or the service by contract ; are'you in possession of any Tr Cl,^ letter tha will show the eliorts that hav been made lor the introduction a In u practicable o. a contract system, and thereby diminishing tl e umouiU o tori sent .rom thi. country, and nducmg to some extent the cCmniis at , v ce"!! I have not that paper hut I will procure it. An extract of an o.H ^ ter Au;; C.eneial liourke, winch I now pro.luce, has reference to that subject. ['17>c mtncs you can ' ' additional 111 mode (>(' lil!iciiliy ol' y I'leasiiry 11, a.s tar as It of stores service .- — letter iVoni •■J jor-(ieneiaI MibiT i'H;}'2, e necessary uhl iiidei'd b.eii pre- iat depart- IIH'Ilt, ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 21 ? nicnt, which it is stated was fixed by my predecessor at 51, had been reduced at various times subsequent to my arrival in this country, so as to consist at the time of the receipt of your letter of 38 only, in conse(|Ucnce of the arrangements directed by that letter, I uuticipate a further reduction on the 1st March next, upon which the commissariat establishment of New South Wales will consist of no more than 29 persons. The principal matters to which you have been pleased to direct iny attention, are the discontinuance of the general depot of stores, the suppression of the military chests by transferring the funds to the banks, and a less minute examination of certain accounts in the commissariat office here. With respect to the first, namely, the discontinuance oftlie depot of stores, the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury may have observed *hat the requisitions have of late con- tained fewer articles of some descriptions, and a much less amount of others, than used formerly to be the case. Tenders have been called at varit/iis times, either for the whole or for some portion of almost every arllcio re(piired by the commissariat; and requisitions have been made on the Treasery for the supply of such articles only as could not be had here, or as were offered at an unreasonable ])rice. Their Lordships, however, are quite rioht in supposing: that the rapidly-increasing commerce of the colony will shortly enable the com- missariat to |)rocure every necessary article by means of contracts made on the spot. Their Lordships must be aware, that in a widely-extended and thinly-pojjulated colony, such as this is, it has been necessary to proceed with caution in arrangements upon which the regular supply of food to the troops and convicts mainly depended. With respect to the third point adverted to in your letter, namely, the superfluous examination of accounts in the deputy commissary-general's office, I have communicated with Mr. Laidley upon the subject; and their Lordships will perceive, by the Return of persons intended to be retained on the commissariat establishment from the 1st March next, that the numerous clerks hitherto employed in the ejiamination of these accounts have been reduceiug out ot the siijiply to convicts has been a sub- ject ot very great loss to the public, inasmuch as it wa.s almost impossible to give a correct account of the sui)sistence of the convicts, from so much conlusion tiiat was unavoidable in the issues, and con.se(juenlly in the accounts. 2.'-,S. Does nothing of that kind apply «ith reterenee to the military? — No ; the military an all supplied «ith one particular ration, from which there is no deviatiiHi. 2,>o. -And consequently to observe and regulate those variations constitutes a very considerable portion of the duty ? — It has in former times been productive of very ureat emburrassment, but tiie plan of si]b->i,->ti:iL! tiie convicts has bei n iirought into a certain degree ol lorm ami ^lVstl'm within the last few years, ivhicli has in a great degree removed the ddHculty. 260. Are there any other duties which the co iimissariat ilischarge with refereuce to convicts, and not witli reterenee to troop^'- — All the .supplies that are re(piireil tor the convict'; are provided by the commissariat upon the spot. 2()l. Including many that are not proviiled lor the troops- — Ves, certainlv, dotlimg and impleiiunts ; t!ie convic ts being many of tlieui employed upon the road.'i and |)ublie buildings, and all liie tools and implements re(jiiired ha\e been proviiled lhroUi;li tlie cunmiis-ariat. 2(ij. (an you turnisli llii; Committee v\ith a eopv (jf one of the re(|uisiiions Iroui New South \V .\Ws, taking such an one a> v\ill atlijrd a fair speiiuieu ol the atlieles rer|nired in tluit colony? — Certainly. I believe the Committee are aware tliat by recent arraiigeuK nts manv (jI those articles «ill no louge'r be reipiired fr(6. In the Ueturn which is before the Committee in the Appendix of the Report of last year, the value of the provisions and stores for military purposes is stated ; can you furnisii the Conmiittec with the amount of expenditure carried on through the couunissariat, for convict and other civil purposes :— It appears from an estimate prepared in the colony, prospectively for the year 1833, that the g'-oss amount for convict expenditure in the colony is upwards of 82,000/. Against that sum of 82,000/. it was expected that tiiere would be recovered froui the colonial government, or from other sources statcil in tlu; estimates, 23,485/., leaving tiie net convic't expenditure .')S,,'-,()() /. 2()7. You have stated already that you consider the care of 4,800 convicts, .supposing that to be the number, much more than equivalent to the care of 4,800 soldiers? — I think so, certainly ; if it vvi;re only in reference to tiie difference of the rations. 2()8. Can vou give me Committee an idea of the jiroportional difference between the care ot 4,800 convicts and the care of as many soldiers?— It would depend so mucii upon local circumstances that it is difficult to say ; it must ilepend so much upon tiie dispersion of the troops. 2(i(). Taking then) dispersed as they are? — I think an estiuiale might be [)re- pared ; I will endeavour to form one as well as it can be prepared. 270. Have you any further paper to put in before you coiiclude your evidence ? — As explanatory of the passage in Cieneral Bourke's letter, 1 wish to put in the following paper. {The It'itness delivered in the same, which teas read as follows :] PROPOSED l)isTi!iBU rioN and Appuoi'hiatuin of thi; Commissahiat Ddi-aiit- MBN'r, tor Uio Vfiir 1834, \u.: SyI)Ni;y. Deputy Commissary-general James Laidley - Oliici' (it tiu- D('|Mity Conimissiiry-goneral : Deputy Assi>taiit Coiimussiuy-'l Mowaid General superintendence. ijcncra! - - ■ -/ .lont's - . - roinniissarial ili'rk Ilirkcy . . - . - - Ditto - - Drumrnond - - - - (leiicnd Acrdnnls. both arrcar and ciurtnt : Cominissanut clerk .Mnoclii' \\ ilsou - . - - - Ditto - - Sktiit' Craig - - . - Cash ollicc ; Assistant Coiiiinis-ary-geiu-ral Millnr . - . Drpiily As>istLiiil ( 'oiiiiiiissary-m'iuiai \N'alkt'r l)('|iiitv Assistaiil t'i>iiimissaiy-i;ciural bamont Ciiiniiiissanit
  • li - . - Dry Stores : Drpuly AsMslaiit Coniiiiissaiv-i;('iU'ial Slatlbrd t Miiiiuissaiial I'Icik liilloraii - - - - - Ditto - - M'Doii.dd - - - - Oitto - - Ciri't 11 - - - - . Supiruiti-'iidiii;^ ollii'iTs at oiit-slatioas : Di|iuiy Assistant I'oiniiiiMsaiy-geiieral lioweruKui l)< piity Assihtaut Coiniiii>sary-^;eiit ral lhr( I) 4 - 'rreasniy departiiu'iil. - Local coircspoiidi'iice. - Sclii'diiKs ot tf luiers and returns. - CopyiiiL; clerk. - Cash accounts. - Provision and stores. - Accountant. - Pay lists aiul pensioncis. - liooks. - (.'o|)yiiii; clerk. - .Accountant. - Syihiey ami oiit-staliou accounts. - Assistant to ditto. - Storekeeper. - Aeco intaiit. - bookkeeper. - .Sloiekceper. - Ditto. f Districts o! Parani.ilta. I.ner- -I pool, .\l\itle Creek, St. Viii- [ cent and lllawaira. J Uliie Abiiintain diNtricI, Windsor ^ and Loun llawkisbiiry. Deputy MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE I'. Archer, Esq. aC March 1835. 24 Deputy Assistant Commissary-general Goodsir Deputy Assistant Commissary-general I'aty - Penal Settlements : Moreton Bay . I Oeputv Assistant Commissary-general Ackroyd Port Macquarrle|(,^;,,,^j^^.,ri,,^ ,,1^,^,, still - Norfolk Island - District of Hatlnirst. jLower and upp«r "\ Hunter's river. district of eiiieiii.» • /Deputy Assistant Commissary-general Owen 'ICommissariat clerk Welman f Deputy Assistant Commissary-general Vaux " IConmiissariat clerk Stevenson - - - In charge. Storekeeper. In charge. Storekeeper. In (•hiiip;e. Storekeeper. Commissariat-ofticc, Sydney,"! 19 December 1H33. / (signed) James Laidky, D.C. G. On the arrival of Deputy Assistant Commissary-general Kent at head-quarters from Moreton Bay, another clerk will be discharged. (signed) J. L., D. C. G. 271. Ciin yon turnisli the Committee with 11 Ueturn of t!ie strcngtli of the com- missariat tiom the year 182S up to the juesent lime?— In the year i8aS, the number of persons em[)loyeil in the commissariat was ()'.-,; in the year iSji, tlie numher uas rediiceti to ,-,i"; in the year 1833, further reduced to :5s persons ; and from the 1st of Marcli 1834, a still further reduction to 29 persons, being less than one half of tiie numher employed in the year 1828. 27-'. h it capable of furtiier reiluctionr — It is possible that some small reduc- tion may be made when the ordnance arrangements are matured; an ordnance establishment is about to be formed in the colony, and the commissariat may thus be relieved, but not mueii, fur they will have still to nuike all the purchases required lor the ordnance. 273. Can you prepare any similar statement with reference to Van Dicmen's Land ? — 1 can. 274. Are you aware whether there have bien any material reductions there — No, there have not been, within my recollection, material reductions. 27,-,. Do you suppose that any excess pievails there r— Probably some reduc- tions mav be (tVected, but the Treasury have not lately given any injtructions to that effect, beeau>e it was in c()ntemi)lation to establish an ordnance department there; and it would ikpend nuicii upon the uKide in which that dei)artment was to be cstabiisiied, what etVeet it would have prospectively upon the couunissariat. 27(1. Is tiiat measure likely to be taken -oon ? — It is now in tiie course of adoption. 2-7. .As the number in the commissariat department has diminished materially from 1828 to 1834, iias tiie nund)er of convicts diminished in the same degree? — The luuuber of convicts has always had a tendency to increase rather than diminish ; the reduction of the commissariat has arisen mainly out of improved arrangements in the mode of coniluetiug that branch of the service. Gciitrai Sir J'fir^iiriiic Moitland, called in ; and Exuinined. C.iioral -7''^ Vt)U were for some time the (iovernor of Nova Scotia ( — From August yu V. Miitl.'xl. 182S to .l.iuiiary 1 8 3.4. 27(). Vou see from the n tiuiis the amount of the stall and the force in Nova Scotia r-^^es. 280. Is it vour opinion that any reduction in eitiier is practicable, witli a due regard to the i (Keiency of the serv ice "'— I think, scarcely. 'Fhe force Ihere is not so large as it was bet(.re" the last way with .America ; there were tin'o stationed tliere four reuimeiits above 1, 1 do strong, now there are four rigimcnts on the present reduced estahlishmtnt. 281. From the lour regiments in that connnund, you furnish one to New IJnmswick ? -A -iiiv diitv re(|uiitd of tiic troops in that eouiuKuid -ivere, or is it compaiativelv slight to w'liat it is at homer — During the term ol my command the soldii IS had ueuerally, but not always, ihree ni^hts in bed. A regiimnl h.is since liial iieiiod bei u removed. 285. 15ul y i* ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. to NfW 'i !S/i. !iiii 28,'-,. But the posts Imve been diminisheil since that period ?— Yes, of necessity, since tlie veginient was taken away. •28(i. You said that there were scarcely any reductions that could be made with justice to the pubhc service ; did you mean that there were any reductions of any kind that could be made ?— The matter duly considered, any reduction could, I thiniv, scarcely be deemed expedient. I am not aware of any that I could reconnnend. :287. Are there trooi)s generally stationed at Annapolis? — Yes. 288. To what amount ?— There arc al)out three com[)anies at Annapolis, some- times more, and there is a detachment of artillery generally there ; the amount ot force at the post varies a little according to the strength of the regiments, and it is sometimes influenced by other circumstances : tiie strength of the detaciunents has probably been reduced since the removal of the 8th regiment. 28t). So that with this reduction you think they have hardly so niuch as three nights in bed ? — I think not more. 290. But under the circumstances you have mentioned, you consider the force as not disproportioned to the duties to be performed, and not larger than is abso- lutely necessary ? — I think not. 2()i. Will you look at the printed Return for the ordnance department, and say whether you think that there is any reduction that could be etfected in that esta- blishment with advantage?— I cannot say that there is : the ordnance departnient is so little under the control and inspection of the general officer, that an ofiicer of the artillery or engineers would be more competent to ansver this question. 2()2. Will you look over the return for the barrack department, and say whether you'tiiink there is any reduction that can be efl'ected in tint department? — That is in the same manner under the ordnance. 203. With respect to any of the establishments at New ^.kunswick, are you able to speak as to the propriety of niaking a reduction? — My former answer will apply eipially to New Brunswick. ■21)4. What is your opinion with regard to the necessity jf keeping up the jxists which have been' reduced, taking the safety of the color.y into consideration? — I think that there is not too large a force in the coloi.;-, more especially while the boundary cpiestion ri mains open. 2()> Independently of the boundary question, do you consider that the colony is overstocked with troops? — No. 206. Contemplating a period of profound peace in Nova Scotia, do you consider that the posts might be reduced so as to diminish the amount of force necessary for that colony ?—l'rofound peace may terminate suddenly. I should say, if ret'erence is not to be had to the local >ituation of tlie North American colonies. and peace could not be interrupted, still the reduction could not be material. 207. Will you have the goodness to explain that answer with regard to local situation ? — I allude to the extensive and exposed frontiers of the North American colonies. _ • ir i- • 2()8. Are the military employed with regard to local gaols? — les; m Hahtax and some other towns. 2i)(1. Do yon think that necessary ? — Prisoners have frequently escaped from the colonial gaols, sometimes aided from without. Prisons better constructed would diminish, no doubt, "r remove the necessity. }oo. What is the amount of force that is employed over the gaols?— It varies according to circumstances. ■JO I. Is it the system of the colonies to employ the troops to guard other posts than those re(juired lor army purposes and army stores- — I have stated that they furnish sentinels over the gaols when retiuired by the civil authorities to do so. 502. Are the military employid in Nova Scotia, taking the (luestion generally, to perform duties which civil olHcers are here employed to pert'orm ? — The military in the colonies, as in C.reat Britain, m.iy he recpiired to act in cases of riot. T'hey assist (and have rendered most important service) when tires occur. May he called on to assist in the apprehension of smugglers, and such other duties, wiiat- ever tluy may be termed, as the military are recpiired to perform in (ireat Biilaia. 11 5();5. If the colonial government were to provide tor the due custody ot the pri- soners there, and for the ordinary police purposes, might not a considerable portion of ihe troops that are employed now be dispensed with ? — No. 0.1 1. E 304- l>i> Gcnerat -Sir P. Maittand. sG Marcli 1835. General Sir i'. Maitland. a6Marcli 1835. 26 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE ■504. Do you think the amount of nourly u roii'micnt is cinployo.l in those ikilies ? - No not in "uaniin^ the jjiiols ; nothing like it ; piMluips 20 men. 30 'J. There are r,(> men on dctrxiiment iit Anii:»[)olis ; is that detaclnncnt neces- sarv ?— Yes, I think it very neeessary. ■ , , . 30ti. There is a detachment of 275 at Frcdcricktown; do you consider that necessary ?— Yes, certainly. • 1 », » ■507. There arc Joo men at St. John s. New i:runsvvick ; do you consider that necessary ?—Ves, certainly. ,, . , . kt u -i 1 •}()H. There is a detachment (jf 27 men at St. Andrew s, New Brunswick ; do you consider tiiat necessary?— Yes. _ ■?o() There arc 4() men at Cape Breton ; are they necessary .— Yts. 310 There are (i4 men at Prince Eiiward's Lsland ; ilo you consider that necessary?— It is a separate novernment, and the governor reports that lie coulu not do with less. He askclic Mortii, 1835. SIR JOHN BYNG, Hi THE CHAIR. Licut.-Colonel Horatio George Broke, called in ; and Examined. 321 YOU have been some time on the stafTat Nova Scotia ? — Yes. Lieut.-Col. 32'-'. How long?— I was t' jre from October 1 S3 1 till the end of July 1834; "" ''atio u. Bro ke. nearly three years. March i8t; 32J. In What situation?— As dejmty quartermaster-general. 3» re js- 324. You have also been for some "time on the stall' of that department in other stations? — I have. 32,'-,. From your stall" situation in Nova Scotia you are of course aware of the distrii)uti()n of troops in that province ? — Yes, I am. 321;. You are aware of their preci.se amount ?— I could speak to them nearly, I should say. 327. Are you of opinion that any of them could be reduced, either in amount of force or entirely ?— No ; I think they are all as low as they ought to be kept; all the detachments are decidedly as low as they ought to be, and it has been the object to keep them so. ■32S. When did you leave Halifax?— I left Halifax on the 1st of August last. 32(). At that time had the Stii regiment been removed to the West Indies? — It had been removeil a twelvemonth or more. 330. Did the removal of that regiment occasion a difficulty in the performance of the requisite duties ?— Very great difficulty; so much so that the detachments ttiat were absolutely necessary to be kept up were obliged to be reduced more than I believe they liad ever been ; some of the detachments tiiat had always been con- sidered desirable to be kept in tiie country were altogether called in at that time, and the artillery were called upon to take that share in the duties of Halifax itself, and the harbour posts, which they had never done betore. 331. Was an api>licalion consequently made by Sir ArchibaUl Campbell to have that regiment replaced? — An application was made immediately by Sir .^l■cllibald Campbell. 332. Did the .S3d regiment arrive jirevious to Sir Colin Campbells arrival ? — Yesi the S jd reiiimeiit arrived before Sir Colin Campbell. ■^y^. WUvn (lid Sir Colin Campbell arrive ?— Six or seven weeks before I left. 354. M' hat are the number of regiments now in that command and its depen- dencies, including New Ihunsniek": - hi N'ova Scotia and its dependencies, in- cluding New lirunswick, there are four regiments. J J-,. In the amount of the military stall' there do you think any reduction, how- ever small, would be practicable -—I think it is utterly imjiraclicable since the reduction of the deputy adjutant-general. I think it is impossible that the staff duties can be carried on wilii any further reduction. 33{i. 'I'here are several charges for boats and boats" crews ; are they absolutely necessary :— I do not think there is a boat employed which is not necessary. 'I'hey were all under mv control, as having the charge of the harbour posts. ■}"57. There is an allowance of 720 /. ft>r clcigymen for performing divine ser- viceVal how many .-talions is there a clergyman?— I am not aware of the number of clergymen; 1 know there is a clergy num at llalilaN. I am not able to say whethei- there is any military chaplain appointed at oilier stations besides IJahlax ; but i know that at each statical divine service is perfurmed. 33S. What pists were discontinued when the lamibcr of troops were reduced bv the deiiaituie of that rruinient?— That at Annapolis, for a lime ; (it had been rel.laced nheii I left Halifax;") and that at Win.lsor, which bi'.'! "»t I'^'i replaced . ami I l.( g al.so to obscr\e, the duty of the detaclmicnt ut ^ ink Uei.nuhl was taken by the arlillerv. That is a harbour post. 3.;(), How many men were employed generally at \ ork Redoubt (— 1 hey u\eia'"ed "eiieiallv 20 men ; a subaltern and 20 men. o.u. ■ i^'-5 340- llov. 28 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Lient Col 340. IIow lonp did any outposts continue unoccupied ?— Annapolis and Windsor tloraiw 0. Ihoke. continued unoccupied from the departure of tlie 8th refjinient, ahout June or July, till the arrival of the 83d regiment in July in the following year, when Annapohs gi Marcl. iS35- was rc-occupicd. ■]4i. They were vacant a year? — \ca. 34.2. Did any inconvenience arise from these posts being vacant during that tinif- — No inconvenience arose during that period. 343. How many men were employed in Windsor?— A subaltern and .20 men 344. There were no complaints in consequence of these posts being unoccupied? —No. . , . 345. No inconvenience having arisen during the tune they were unoccupied, do you consider it is ahsolutelv neces.sary that they should be occuj)ied?— I consider It extremely desirable that" Anunpolis should be occupied. It is at a very con- siderable distance, a distance of ijo miles, from Halihix ; and in the event ot military assistance being required, all that country at that distance being so lar removc'd from Halifax, of course a considerable length ot time would elapse m sciuliii" troops; and in the event of any additional assistance being required in St. John's or New Brunswick, they can bt immediately passed over by steam-boats across the Hay of Fuiuly to New I3runs'.,ick. , 1 ■ 1 346 You have given" an opinion that no reduction should take place in the number of troops employed in Nova Scotia; is that wiih reference to the internal wi-nts of the colony itself, or with reference to external atYairs r— It is witli reference to the wants of tiie colony and its dependencies. There is always a cap- tain's detachment at I'rince Edward's Island, and a captain's detachment at Cape lirelon- with these and the other detachments, there are not more men lett at head-quarters than tiiere ought fairly to be, to take the duty without its pressing too hard upon the men. . 347. Then the opinion has no reference at all to any question ot hostihties wiiii any other power?— Decidedly not. . 348. Do you think 1,400 men are required at Hahfax tor the duties ot that station? — Decidedly. .... . i» 34.). Without reference to tiie line of frontier winch it is necessary to guard . — \cs, without any reference to the frontier. _ 3.'.,) Were the miliiia called out .luring tlie time you were there r — No, they were not , except for one or two days, to be inspected by the inspecting field officer. .... ^ ,, ,.,- 3'-,i, You have never seen them?— I have seen only the militia ol llaliiax ; I liave seen the Halifax militia occasionally, when they have volunteered their .ser- vices on occasions of sham lights. On such occasions they have taken a part in the sham tight. r .• 5 3V2. D" y"U know whether there is any regular toree on the American Irontier ? — 'I'liey have a post on our frontier. What the luimber of mm is I do not know ; 1 imagine not more than 300. _ ■ v i> • 1 -53 On the whole line of frontier?— Yes, on the frontier ot New Hrunswick. I speak not from havinu been there iuy^i^(, but Irom having heard it repeatedly Irom oflicers who have been to the |)osts. 3.-,4. Have they any militia force on the frontier ?— No, they have no militia force tinbodied. ., • - i , , 1 35',. Is the militia fmci' a popular force m Nova Scotia r—1 should say it i>, certainly. . . , , 3-,ti."How are the otHcrs and men paid when embodied .'—1 hey are paid by a vote of the House of Assembly. 357. At what rate?- 1 cannot say ; I have never known them embodied at all. Vr.S. Could you, except by compiilHoii, obtain their servic- .. at the same rate of pay which you uive to Ikiti-h soldiers ?— Not the whole body ot them, 1 should think hut 1 conceiv.- that in the event of a war von would always be able to raise voluntarily a very considerable force of the miliiia. I ilo not imagine the woole body would turn out at tliat rati; of pay. 3V) Is" not liir pay w rv inferior to thai uhieh ihey can obtain by lahotir or !)y any work as arlizans or labonivrs?— The pay is very inferior to what can be earned l)\ artiAuis. I'll the country there is so ureal a scaieity ot money thai the agn- ruhur.il labourers are always obliged to receive a very consideral)le poitiou ot tlieir pav in uoods. ' ■ 3(10. Are 'A *^ ;;(i(i. A 10 ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 29 3f)(). Are there not a considerable number of j)erson3 unemployed as artizans Ljeut.-Cnl. or lal)ourcr.s durinf; a portion of the year, from the severity of the climate r — Ihrutio O. Broke. Yes, during the winter season. "" ' T" 361. Are there not also a considerable number of unemployed cmij;rants who 31 March 1035. would be glad to enlist in the militia force?— The greater portion of the emijiranls who visit Nova Scotia are Irish, and arrive there under very mistaken ideas of what they are to find. I have no doubt a proportion of tliem wouUI readily enlist in the militia, in any way in which they could fjet immediate provision. Tiiey arrive out there in considerable numi)crs, bein;; totally mistaken as to what they are to ex- pect, for in fact there is nothing to be done for emigrants in Nova Scotia. There are a great number who arrive there every year, who come ilircct, anil tiierc are many more who are driven there by shipwreck oti" Capo Breton and the eastern coast, all of uhom (iiid their way to Halifax, and as there is no possible employ- ment for them in the province, they are obligetl to be pushed on as fast as possible. These who have money generally nlake their way to the United Stales ; but as thac is the case with few of them, it "is a heavy tax upon the inhabitants of Nova Scotia to provide for emigrants of that description, and therefore a great number of them would readily enlist as a matter of desperation ; but if they had any money they would not. ■_){y2. Then taking tliat into consideration, and taking into consideration the difficulty of finding employment for emigrants or other labourers at all seasons of the year, in consequence of the climate, do you think there would be any doubt of finding a sufficient number of men for the militia at as low a rate ot pay as British soldiers ?— Emigrants witliout money would eidist ; but I think it would be against that feeling of independence which the old colonists have, to enlist, unless war were to break out. I think then there would be a very strong feeling, a feeling of attachment to their country, which v\ouUl induce them to enlist, independent of the pecuniary inducement. 363. Bearing in mind that the service required would not be a permanent service as in the line, but merely for a limited ptriod as in the inililia, do you think there would be any dilliculty in obttiming persons to enlist? — To what period does the ([uestion refer ? 3(14. Say five years ? — I tliink there would be more difficulty tiian in this country. I think it would be more difiicult, because those persons who would readily e>;list are chiefly to be found about Halifax. Tliey are not to be found in the country. 3()-,. Do you mean to say the facility of raising any militia would not be aniong the natives, but the strangers of the colony ?— Certainly, e.\ce|)t during a war. 3(it). And that ''acility would naturally be very precarious ?— Certainly. 367. Supposing the experiment were tried, and it succeeded to any exteiit in obtaining the service of a number of persons in the militia, do you, in a military point of view, see any objection to employing a proportion of that force, and releas- ing an ((luivalent proportion of the regular force of the country ?— If it uere pos- sible to have the militia as perfectly train..d as our militia uere during the late war, 1 should see no objection to a certain portion, but I doubt that being |)iaiticable. I do not think you could find officers (|ualified for the militia ; and for that reason I have veVy strong doubts indeed about their becoming efficient. jtiS. Was not the excellence at ^^hicll the militia arrived in the late war occa- sioned by their being embodied for .-everal years?— UncpRstiouably. ^Ch). "Was it ever suggested to you, er have you ever turned your attention to the point as to the |)racticability of raising a colonial corps in tlie Canadas for the .services of the colonies esclusively ? — No, I never considered that (piestion. 570. What is your opinion of the practicability and efficiency t)f a corps raised in Canada for the especial service of that colony ?— I should very much doubt whether the duties could ever be carried on so salislactorily as by the Irooiis of the line. 371. Will von give your reason? — I think the duties would always be bitter carried on in a young eoluny by troops of the line, who have not any of those local feelings or altacliments which might occasionally iufiuence tlie militia. ■]72. Supposing a corps were raised oi eniigiuiit;^ ui olhi r persoi>s who would enlist for the spetMal service of the colony alone, do you think lliere would lie any dilficully in raising such a corps; and it raised, would there be any objection in eniployi'u"' then: to a certain extent with the troops of this couulry ? — If tliey were o.ii. " t^ 3 "'''l 30 MIMITKS or EVinUNCK BKlOllE SELECT COMMirTEE , • , r . well oIVk-occI, unci in u snu.U proportion to ti.c troops of the line, 1 then shonhl sec nJri't.^r. :: LSetionJ-ut everything clepen.is on .he olho-in,. "j;;; ;;-'-, ^ P- po.ition, it ..pp. ai> to n.e, il Ihev «i''v nn>e.l li.MU those ennj;u.nts « ho n fio n^ ;>. ^.aren .835. , here hnV thev are n.istaken in their views, un.l uouUi he ^<^";ly ''-;;''- servie... il wo.,1.1 u,.u,nnt very n.ueh to enhsi..,!r th.^ sun.e el.tss ol nun that you wouUi i)iol)al)lv Ket hy enlistment in tliis eoiinlry. . . , Jl a loree. it it «as s.>»V,eiently ottlccre.i ? Do you thu.k su.h aloreeeonl.l hera.se fo le sc'rv ce of .he eolony ? -I think it would he very ohjee.u.nahle ; .h.nk .1 H^n 1 he very .hftienit .0 hrhif- a eorps so eon.po.e.l into .hse.phne. I tlnnk the Clus ..I perscL trou. whon, von woul.l he ohli^ed to ra.se that eorps a.;e men who e» ou iith .he idea «t teeli.-.., the.nselves p.rteetly at l.herty. .nost o. .hen. .lac £ hmw olV.he .•es,r..in..s o. soeiely uhieh ihey a... suhieetnl ... .n ihe.r ow n,n.?.,y, and I think .he.e would he extre.ue di.tie..lty .n d.se.pl.n.nj; a eorps so ■ ''"'"ir'would "«.t pcnerully those who enlist he the least industrious and the worst clmiucteis ?— Certainly. • ,1 -j 1^ .inU, 375. A.ul eonse.,ue.Ulv less desirahle and less scrv.ceahle .--Cer.a.nly. 5?(i. Fro... vour exp(Vienee as a n.ihtary ...a... have you .u.t to.nul .ha when pe;s..,s ot .hai eha,aeter have enlisted, the.r halu.s are so ehanj;.;.! I'y "'<■ ";- cipimo of the serviee. tha. ih.'V hecon.<3 totally chllere... chan.cte.s !» "hat ey «m.hefo,e.hev enlisted ?-As lonu as .hey a.e under renula.-d.sc.phne ; i ..t . wil he .e wiMi^i.i ... ,1 I.,„,t > til. Ill M-l'llllI I 1(> that ma.iv o." .hose who have any niil.iral "oo.l sense ahont tlu 111, Iron, seeing the that nia.iv 01 uiose «.iu n.m any m..i...... ^ ■■ ,11 , „ cxan.ple-heiore .heir eves that those who are well eon.luete.l an.l who a.r a.e,. ahl,. .0 cliseipli.,e .n-t h.Vwa.-d, while., on .he eon.rary, others arc; eons...,,tly s.,hject- ing thcmseUcs t.r punishn.en.. would heeo.ne retonnec. and exeeechn^ly t-ood soldie.s and Jloocl nienih.'r> ol s.ieiely. .1 . ;,i „,. -7 A.e Vhe elass of en,i;;.an.s who eome ou., ol .hat desenp .on. that either from' a'.'e or size you would ohjec. to enlist ... .h.s eount.y t;en<.allv : -1 here .ire „Un.v to whon. one would .nake no ohjee.ion as .0 ..,;;e u.- s./e eo.,m,^ .on, Irc- au.l "hu. a ...-ea. n.nnhe. of tl.en, with hn-e fam.hes; a.ul .1 you enl.st .he.se .„en, eveiv n.an who is . ..li-.ed c;,.ails a., .i.i.litio.u.l l.nrthen upon .he couutry. .5-S A,e .here no. a .,u.„h. r ol voun;. n.e.. at.aehe.l .c, .he; tannh.'s who eou.c ,„„•'„ ho n,i«ht p.-ohahlve.,list-: Is it .,ot the p.ael.ee tor h.m.he. that all .Is „,, „h..s, vounAuul olcl, eon,e o..t toL-e.her ?- heheve .t .s ... ..m,.y n.s.anees -„ \,e .iu^re no. x....n- nu., m llu)se famil.es who would he l.kely .0 e.,h.t iu the"Kii>^-s .serviee :-"-Th..... a.v so.ms hut tiu' proportion .s .,ot hu.ire. jS... 1).7 vcu, think it p.-ohahle .hat th. Nou... .uen who ^o cn.t o." .hat .he eniUnts who go .u.t to Nova Scotia, would volunUe,- a. .he |>ay ol the rc-ular .rocii.s?— Some of liuin, who have no money. . ■L S,mp.)sn,- (ioN.mu.enl slun.hl .liei.le on l.y,nf^ the expe,-..„ent, do you see any ni h "rv ."hi.r.ua, to .!,.■ na.u.e ..f tiu' fo,ce ? -One ureat ohject.on see an..cs r.M..aclouhtwhe.!u,,cn,h.Kly.u,.lh*' cups at o..ee hem those .uae.als, you .•ould ever have .hem eliicien., s., as take .he pla.-e o. ,e.une.,l. of I- ' ' . ^ .;S .. A.e ...a.,v ol the Kin-i's ..•o<,ps lu.w ,1, .Nova Nol.a en.pU.y. .1 .0 h.tus vvh eh i., .his e.;u.,.,v a.r .■ousi.l. ...I civil .h.li.'s ; s.^ch as fiua.-d..,s fl^u.K >>> puliee, or auNthin^ o that de-e, .ptuni, ha-i.n t.. anvihn.^ .hat ,s ^ene.ally co. - Semi u.il..a.ych.,v, as ...ar.l.n!; s...... or as ,.....d. :~- I h- r.. a.e so....-..ards over .laols, la.t .here a.e .,.,. many men so cLiployed. iS'; Y.H. have slat. . I, .hat in vour oi'"""" '^ <-"n'« ""^I't ,<■ .a.s.d ot .he unc^..M.l..ve.l e...if.,a.,ts in N..va Scot.ar Yes. it n.i.ht he .a.sed hy .ieu-res. 3S.I. Th.)seuncn,plov..l .,.nu..a.ts are |n .sons wl... have .-one out horn ih.s ceunilrv iin.ler the inll... nee of laNc expeelati..ns - - I'.rnsely. .5S,-,: Co...e<,uently. whc, they anne .,. the colony tluy a.e .l.s.pp..,n.ni nun .^ ~^^:. What, in.l..|a.s..,lMate ot atlai.s, wlun ihey are no. enlisted in tl|e n.iitarv Icee, nsnallv hce.,..,. s ol these pe.sons-r -Ihey '"■'^^"•"^'^, ^:7;','" \' .';• n,a„.lv- n ,!h t„wn of llahh.x : dun..;, ihe sumnur ther.' are e<,ns,untly se 1 - cr.ption ,.u,.l.., ^^..h a v.cu ... ,et.,nj, the.e ...en sent ....wa,.l. 1 u - a e 1 I. shnuhl see 1(1 ilic pro- lio in ^oliif^ to I iilrr llie til lliat you )l()yincnt of iltl liiriiiscd ; I iliiiik il 1 tliink the re men who f thiiii j;lad 1 Uii'ir own il corps so )us and the Illy. I ihat wlicn l)y (lie dis- ) whut they )lini' ; l)ut it rciiiincnts ot" L'crs arc sent li'.'iits of the y lind tlioin- in tliat case, II seeing the lo arc anieii- mlly Mihject- nhnj'ly good II, that cither f -There are iii; (ii)in Irc- -t these men, itry. Its who conic -< tliat all its ■ iii>tanccs. kely to enlist iic. or tliat the I' the refiular mint, ipniiitcil III! n y .Milisted in the a sevi're tax, constantly suli- (I. riicri- ari' exertions I. ON MILITAUV LSTAIiLIS'IMKNTS IN THK COLONIES. ,}. lilVerent parts of th(! conntry, where they may ily disposed to as>,ist themselves hy any cxorlioiis nuH Ic to send them Into i Ijeut.-Cdl. lluraliu (J. Hroke. hnt those who are rea procure labon menus, keep workini» on n United Stales. Theio arc suoMriplinns mat til thev net generally tiiroii'^h New nruns«ick into the lu constantly, and iiidividnals yivc 31 M;irch 183J assistance to lamilies to send them out ol the country into the United States, so that they lind that .^encrallv hy the close of autumn, there are not a great iimny that have arrived in the spring or summer that have not somehow or other tou.ia tlieir »ay out of the country. Those who remain mvariahly hi.d their way to Halifax in the winter, knowing it is the only phue where they can look for charity, and hecome an extremely severe tax upon the miiahilanls. 'j87 Adverting to the circumstance that the great body of them escape Irom Nova Scotia, and lind their way into ( mmtrics where lahour is dear, and where conscduenlly they can turn their lahour to advantage, do you tlnnk that the con- dition of that class of emigrants would he improved hy the adoi-taa. ol the plan which has heen sn-gested, namely, their enlistment in a colonial corps ?- I should say that il would lake a .•..nsi.lerahie time to form a colonial corps, masmueii as von ^M.uld only induce those to enlist who found that they had no poss.Uihly ot Irettin.. inland, in.iMnncI, as they -ome cait to he iii.h pendent ; and .1 they possihly can he independent, they «ill noi enlist. 1 am .lispo.ed to heheve that . yon enlisted 5" '"^'i in the spring, you would lose J.^ within the next six months hy desertion". I helieve the majority of all the men you would enlist m thai way would, wheneverlheyiiad n'loney in their pockets, desert, and would eventually entail a very severe expense upon the Ciovcriimenl. 58S Vou have stale.llhalannmherofdes.ilions would prohahly take place in the event of the formation of a colonial corps; can yon .luote any historical circumstance in supnorl of that opinion ?-There are too many desertions Imni the reiiiments of the line stati.ined there ; and it is considered not right to keep a rcimenl in New Ikunswiek, I.eing close to the l.oundary, more than three years, andl.y the expiration of that time it is found ihal they hegm to desert, sometimes in numhers; and therefore I am salislie.l, if that is the ease u.th the rcgunents of the line, that it would he in a lenfohl degree the case with men who are generally ,,„i.rants of the hmest class of society, and who have gone to that coun ry with u vi^w of gelling in any «ay they can into liie hack selllements ot tiie <;''"" '7.""^ heii.' independent. I am satisfied that whenever those men had .5*. m thur '''i^t:^Zt':''L a regiment was raised in Nova Scotia during the late war? — I am not aware ot that. „ , 11 1 1 i,« .500. Do vou conceive that the employment of such a co onial corps would be lesL cosily than the employment of Hrilish soldiers ?- -Decidedly not : much more ""^'ioTriHlerany circumstances r-If you are lo pay them as British tro;)ps, I am satisfied tlu; deser\ions alone would render them inlinilely more expensive than the emi.lovmeiu of regimenls of Ihe line fnmi this country. . xt ii '..i. •u -■ W (Rild not llK.se desertions be contlned to ihe stations in New Brunswick nunelhan lo any other part ? X'ertainly not; there would be more desertion rom New Brunswick, but there are plenty of iacilities lor getting out ot Nova Scolia. .^,,5. Do vou think there would be any ddVicully in raising a eerlain number ot nin, i 1 Ireland tor a colonial corps of that sort for a limited service, to ti" <'"t tor ,., ,„. , . years -—I daie say it would not he dilVuult, but that corps must he kep a very considerable time in "this eountiy, ! should say several years, betore it could he considered til lo send out there ; and I do think il wouU be a very unadvisabe measure, inasmncl. as I believe that the majority ot people who enhs.ed lu iha corps would enlist uith the positive intention to desert when ihey goi out lo Nova ^'"^M. Supposing a colonial corps were established with the same pay as a British coip sdoes it not follow as a matter of course that, taking mlo consideral.o. It relief necessary for British troops, there must be a considerable saving to this country from tlu. einployinent of such a coU.nial force?- ihe only expense .aved woehl be siiniily the conveyance ot the legiment. . ■m Do you not tak.^ into consideration also the lunnber ot troops in this conn- try .1 ieh are necessary lu be kept up in or.h;r to relieve the troops m the colonies ? -If you have tour regiments of the line in Nova scolia and New Br ins«ieK, ad if yon witiidraw one and establish u coh.nial corps, and (,ay that at the same latt, I see no diminulion ol'expense. ^ . j^^^^ o.ti. ^4 •^■' ■ 12 MlMUTliS OT' r.VIDliNCK nKroUF. SET-r.CT COMMIITEE Lieut..Ciil 3i)(i. I low ol'ltii iiru llic ri'v'imi i lis ol' iIk; line ri'lievcd in Nomi Si-otia? --In JIuraliu (i. lUutu. iiboiit lo years ; I believe tlio yKlli, wiiich is comiii.n limne ll>i.>. year, lias liu.n out ai iMnrch Ifyj !! R. n'. Ifiiv, Esq. 1(1 years. ■j()7. Would not the oii;auiz«ti(in ofsiicli a eorps at once begin wilii the xpense of orfjaiii/inn a new refiinienl, anil iIk; bounty of tnlislinenl ?- V es, eerlainly. 3()S. WiKilil it not iilso ailti tlie reiliictiuii of u regiment of the line, und their several pensioim r — Certainly. 3()i). Sup|)osini» the ulVicers not to have their lialf-pay, but to be transferred to the new regiinenl ? — 'I he ex|)ens»' would then be reilnced in proportion to the number of olliiers tran^feriiii. 400. Arc yon ucipminlcd with the conslitntion of the eommissuriat estniilish- nieiit at Nova Scotia ? — 1 know exactly the eoiniHisition of it. 401. M hat class of persons urea;ipointed coinmissaries-fienciul in that country? — One of tiie regular deputy commissarynenenils is sent out there Irom thi» country. It is u deputy coimnissary-generars post. Robert II tlliam Ilaij, Ksi]., Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies ; further I'.xamini d : 40.'. M'll.XT is the uiimunt of force of Newfoundland ? — The umount of force for the year iS;;;} was jijj rank and file. In tiie year iH,54, as appears by the Consolidated lleiinn which" is before the Committee, "it was lower; Jjli rank und rtle. 40.;. What is the dislributioii of force in Newfoundland r— I have obtuined this distribution fioin the Adjutant-general's ollice, and I will now give it in. I I'idc Appeiulix.| 404. What i> liie governor's salary of Newfoundland, and that of his immediate predecessor? — The governor's salai-y of Newfoundland at present is 3,1)00/. a year; that of Sir Thomas Coehriine, his immediate predecessor, was 4,j()o /. until l.SjS, when it was rediieiil to .;,n(i()/. Ikfure that time Newloundlimd was a naval station, and the command was conjoiiied with that of the admiral. 'Ihe salary, therefore, us siovernor was small, varying from .300/. to i.ooo/. 40.',. Does that salary inchide all iiiofessional pay ? -The officer who coinmunds there is a capt.iin in the" navy, who does not enjoy his half-pay. 4(i(i. Is there a governiiiei)t liouse :— Tiiere is a i;oveniment house at N( w- foundiand, tlie building of wiiich eommeneed as lai' back as iHj,-,. In conseo/. 407. Was it lurnialieil ': — There are certain rooms hiniished in the government house in all our colonies ; the rooms for presentation, and those only. 408. The rest are furiiislied at tiu' expense of tiie governor?- -They are. 401). rroni what fund i> the governor's ^ahl^y paid:- The governor's salary is paid Irom the custom.*)' duties. 410. Is there not a vessel or yaciit for the governor's use at Newfouniiiand : — Yes, there is, and it was first esiahlished when the udmirul who commanded at Ne«fouiiiilaiiil, ceased to be the governor uIm). It was then determined, as it was inteiuled tlial a King's slii|) sliouiil no longer be kept permanently on tlie station, that it would be found nicessaiy to have a vessel of some size under the governor's orders, to enable him to communicate with Nova Scotia and with the distant jiarts of tiie government, there being no roads or next to no roads in the island ; and also to convey the judges on their circuits, more es[iecially to the coast ot I,ahr;ii!or. 411. What is the amount of expense?— The contract for the vessel is •.',300/. a year. ^\2. Could not a smaller vessel, oiu of less cost, suffice ?— I think it not im- possible iTF.r. Si-otiii? --Ill lus liL'cii out the xpensc rtainly. c, uikI tlicir •llIlsfLTICtl to rtiol) to tlio lat cstnl>li8li- liiit country? c iruiii tlii^ Joluiiics ; Hint of lorce )|)car.s l)y tlio 7() ntiik anil (il)tuincd this in. is immediate is 3,()()(i/. a 4,j()i)/. until lullaiid wa.s a iniiial. Tlic r U) commands use at N'( IV- c()nsL'<|ui;ncc ', an fstiinatc iiate was sent fiic'od to. It iiircd to com- itf, as vsouid t was <;r(atlv as taken otl'. It, and whicti .•onsidnahk' ; • govirniiient • •y arc. Kji's .salary is foundiand r — )niinan(li'(l at ned, as it «as in the station, the ixovcrnors • distant (larls n the island ; ;o till' coast ot noI is 'jj^joo/. link it not im- possible ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMLNTS IN THE COLONIES. 33 nosVible thattt smaller vessel might answer the purpu-sc j and It may ptilmps be R. W. Ihy. En ll.meut this time, tiiouj-h not so easily until tlii.^ period, since it is .inderstoo.l ■ ■■ that the ussen.hly of iNfewfonndlan.! have deciddl on d.spensm^ will. th<. services 3i March .835. of the iuiiue at Labrador, so that it will no longer be necessary to keep up a rcuular communication with that fpiartcr. 1 should tliink that a smaller vessel Willi fewer hands mi;jht be employed. „• ., 1 ;„ 41 J. What amount of saviiin do you think it i.s possd)lc im,i;ht 1 e elk'cttd m that?— It would depcnil on the number of hands, and the description ot vessel which inisht be sub.stitnted. I should suppose u schooner with 10 or 12 men would answer the purpose, , . , . .. 414. What is the size of the vessel now?— The vessel is a bri^; ot 170 tons. Air,. How many h;mds has she (m board? -She has 21 hands. 4i'fi. Tlieii you tliink half the size of the equipment would be sullicient ? — Hint is ny impression ; but at the same time I should wish the late f-overnor to be examined on this subject, wlio has more local knowledjio than 1 possess, 41- Wliatisthe amount of the etlonial revenue?— About 1 6,000 /. a year. 4i,S. What is the amount of the population "—The population is upwards ot Go o(>(. ■ but it varies, from the circumstance of its beiiii', a tisiiinf; station. 4i(j. Are there any |)nblic works Koing on at the expense ot this country 111 Newfoundland >.—l am not aware that there are, of any extent, AM,. Are there any reductions that you can [iroposc in that command ?— -l am not aware of any, except that in the vessel which I have already alluded to. 1 think that might be reduced. „ , . x, 411. Is there a lieutenant-governor of Newfoundland ."— INo. 4 "2 Was tlicrc not a correspondence or proposal made by the colonial govern- ment to pay all the expenses attached to this colony, if they were allowed some contingencies ?— 1 presume the arrangement is alluded to by which the colonial assembly was given to the province of Newfoundland. ^ 4-.J Did not they oiler then to pay all the expenses r— They held out tl.e stron.'.est boi.cs that they would be able to pay all the expenses ot the civi esta- blisim.ent, but thev have not succeeded in doing so. It the Committee will re er to the colonial estimates for the year lH;;3, they will find a letter Iroin the Colo- nial Department on the subject, in wliicli the whole ease is explained ; and they will see that altliouiih no distinct i-ledge was given by the province, vet that an expectation was held out that if the wishes of the colonists were comphed with in regard to a legislative assembly, they would provide lor the civil establishment out of colonial funds, , ., 1 1 3 t. u „ ;« 4>4 Has that expectation been urged upon the colonial assembly ?— It has m the stron-est way ; but the assembly have urged that they had no means o inect- in.' the e.M'en.se of the civil establishment, the customs revenue having tallen otl considerably, and they have therefore entreated aid from the llnlisli I'arhainent. 40 r In short tlieie is a (piestion of considerable dilViculty pending m reteiencc to that'— Yes; the (luestion is now under tlie consideration ot the Government. 4..(iWhat is the amount of force at llermuda-— Tiie amount ot toree tor Bermuda for the year kS;J;], was r,?.-, rank and file. In the two preceding years it vvas considerably more: m 1S3,, 1,08, ; in .83.., .,.4,-.. Ihal.n 1634 appears in tlie Consolidated Return now printed for the u;,e ot the Comimtlee. 4 .7. What was tlie reason of the force being so large m ib3i and 1S32 f— It arose from an apprehension of mutiny 0,1 the part ot the convicts, Ss What is the distribution of lorec at llermuda .^-1 will deliver the distri- bution, which I have obtained from the Adjulant-generars ottice, and which is made up to the latest i)eriod. [Vide Appendix ] 4^,, What is the governor's salary, and that of his immediate predecessor ?- The'.'overnor has 2,10.', /. upon the "colonial estimates, and iS;,/. trom the eok)- riialtund. lie receives no statV pay, altiiough he is u major-general , but allow- unces to the amount of ■J,')- /• , , 430. Making how much in the aggregate ?-Rather more than 3,000 /. a yeai. AXi Is there a government house ?— There is a government house. 4 V Is that furnished for him ? -Only in the same degree as m other colonies. 433, What is the amount of the colonial revenue :— The colonial revenue is about 10,000 l. a year there. ^.^^^^ 0.11. *■" R. IV. Hay, Esq. ! 34 MliXUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE S'LECT COMMITTEE . 434- Wlmt is the amount of population ?— The i)opulation is rather abov- .)! March 183,^. 43.^. Does that include the convicts ?— No. 430- yiiat are the number of convicts by the last return ?— The number of convicts by tlie last return uas 1.1 co. 437- Are there any public works goinjr on at Bermuda at the expense of this country:— Bermuda is a great naval station, and there are certain fortifications m progress «i.ich were considered necessary for its security: 7.00../. is proposed in the ordnance estimate tins year for this work. 'The original estimate was , L 000 / ot which .,S,ooo/., inclndino; the proposc.l ote of this year, has been already granted, leavini; 31,000/. to be provided in future years ' 438. Is there any yacht or vessel attached to the governor of Bermuda, as at ^ewtouruilandr— No, there is no vessel appropriated to his use 439. t 'ail you propose any reductions in the island of Bermuda.?— I am not aware tl, .t there are any practicable. The governor has been written to in conse- quence ot the instructions sent out last year on the appointment of this Com- mittee, and lie has been unable to propose any. 440. I think you said there was 2.000/. odd paid to the governor; does that ncluile the sum paid to him out ot the 4 A per cent, duties --He has no onger any sum paid to him out of the 4. J per cent, duties. That is paid by lariiament It was in consequence ot" a report upon civil government charges in 1S3 1, that the salaries ot certain W est India governors, and that of the governor of Bermuda, hitherto paid out ot the 4 * per cent, duties, were ,,utupon the colonial estimates. ' 441. \^'o"'!* '^ ""' "^f P0«-:'^'« 'o "lake an arrangement bv which the governor's salary should be paid altogether out of the colonial fund ?—'l should apprehend the colony IS not rich enough to do that. 44^. po you know what they do with the rest of the money, after pavin.' the part ot the salary he receives from then. ?-Xo, I am not aw'.re of the dclails ; but the sum which the assembly have at their disposal after paying the civil esta- blishment is very small. > j n 443- From what source does that fund arise ^-Chiefly from customs' duties. 444. 1 lie whole military and civil establishmeiii, and the expense of these works IS paid by this country, by the Treasury here.^-Not the whole of the civil esta- blishmen , only that portion of it which is paid by a parliamentary vote The estimate tor military expenditure is a separate matter. 44:.. Do you know what proportion of the civil expenditure of Bermuda is paid by the reasury o. this country .— T'he expenses of the civil government are al^ut 10,000/. a year, and the parliamentary grant is about 4 -,()i) / 44«- Does It come into your department to consider the relative general expenditure of this colony as compared with other colonies ?— No doubt it does with other colonies, taking tl... whole expenditure of the colony at 10,000/ a year- -I am not aware that the general expenditure of the colony's extensive as com^ pared with o hers. Ihe 10,000/. a year to which i alluded is to defray the expenses of the civil government. •' 44«- That has nothing to do with the expense of troops -— Nothin<' whatever Mortis, 7* die Aprilis, 183.5. THK RIGHT HO.NOUR.ABLK SIR .lOlfN BYNG, IN THE CHAIR. General Kir //. iurtifr. 7 April l8j5. General Sir Ililgrmc Turner, called in ; and Examined. 440- ^'OU were some time (;overnor of Uermiida, were you not r— Yes. 4',(). Will yon state from what time, and until «hat lime ?- I was appointed in the autumn ot i.Sa/i. or rather I was appnniKd b.lore, but I set out to .'o in the auuim:i ut iS^.o to Ikrmuda. I embarked m December, and landed in Bermuda ill the iiionlh ol l.hruuiy lSjO. 4', I. U hut was tilt- amounl ot lorce at the time you assumed Ihe command --- it « as inciea-Kl afterwards; but at the lime I assumed thi command, Ihcre •^hs one ON MILITARY KSTAI5LISHMENT.S IN THE COLON IKS. one rci^iinent of infantry, two companies of sappers and miners, and a verv small portion of artillcrynien. 4,52. Way tiiat force altcrvvards increased ? — V'cs ; there wns another battalion ot the line sent, and there was a company of artillery, witii a lipiitcnant-colonel com- mandinsr it. It was made necessary on acconnt of the ill-hehaviour of the convicts. 4,')3- What was the greatest amount of force yon had at any one period during your command ? — Tliere were two regiments of infantry, two companies of sappers and miners, and a company of artillery ; and while the fleet was there, there was a naval force. They were not under my command, but they certainly very mate- rially assisted me while I was there, in respect of the convicts. 4,')4. Are the convicts together in a kind of barrack r — No; ihey are all afloat. 4,'),';. IJut they are landed daily for the works ? — Yes. 4f,(i. And require a guard for their superintendence ? — There was always a guard stationed near their work ; but at one period, when they got to be so very dis- orderly and mutinous, I was obliged to put a guard on l)()urd one of the ships. Indeed, the keeper refused to go unless I did. Though I was cautioned from the Home Department not to [uit soldiers as guards, yet the exigency of the case was such, that I was ol)lige(l to do it. 4,57. What is the duty required at Ireland Island r — There was always a de- tachment there ; a battalion that was part of the force of St. Cieorge's was in Ireland Island on account of the convicts. The detachment consisted sometimes of one company and sometimes of more, but that depended upon the commis- sioner of the dockyard reriuiring troops. 4,18. What were the duties required to be done by the troops at Ireland Island ? — There was no further duty for the military there than as a guard over the con- victs. 459. What is the necessity of a station at Mount Langton ? — ^No more than that it is the governor's residence. There was a small (ietachment of a serjeant and \-2 men. 4(i(). It appears in the return of the staff there are three town-serjeants in Ber- nnida ; are they all necessary ? — The oidy oificer that I had as assistant was a brigade-major, who certainly was as.sisted by a town-serjeant ; but the extreme dispersion of the troops might have recjuired more officers than would otherwise be necessary. Tiiose jiartics that were in Ireland Island, and those that were in St. (ieorge's, and latterly, those that were in Hamilton, might hr.ve required them. I had but one officer to as; 1st me. 4(11. At how many stations in the island is divine service performed: — Where there svere troops. Tliere was a battalion in the barracks of 8t. Cieorge's ; there were small barracks in Ireland Island previous to those that were afterwards fitted up with the fortilications ; and there was a hired l)arrack at Hamilton. Those were the three places where divine service was performed. 4t) J. Was the extra r(,'giment that you applied for sent out before your departure from this country? — Yes, it was. 4(1,;. W as that removed before you left the island ? — No. 4(14. In what year ditl that extra regiment arrive in llermuda.' — I should sup- pose that it was about two years there. All my pa[)ers I left at my oflice at Ber- nuida, but as tar as I can guess, I should say two years. ,|().'-,. In what year did you leave the island" — I left the island on the 2d of April i^,;2. 1 was relieve: — Not in all the shijjs, because by pntting two crews of convicts in one sliip, that made but one service for two. 4SJ, Are you of opinion tlun that any rcduclio'.i can he ert'ccted in that parti- cular item of allowances to clergymen without dtlriment to the performance of iheduly? — 1 tiiiiik not. Service in a hot climate like tliat is ten times more (Jillicuit than it is in our own. 4S.J. Those two clertiymen were cleigymen ol the Cliuich of England, and educated as gentlemen- — Ves. 4K4. And they had to perforin the service for i,loo convicts in four or live convict ships .' — Yes. 4S,'i. As well as for the troops ? — Yes, as well as for the detachment of troops that were on shore at Ireland Island ; iiesidcs, the whole of the dockyard at- tended of course, for they had no other church to go to. 4^(1. Are we to suppose that 2,V- I- 4 •'*■ ^*'as the intire aiiioiint limt was |)aid to the clergymen for overlooking the convicts? — 1 hat was not in my deparlnienl. One of them was entirely in tl"' naval department, wliich I had notlrng to do witii, and Ihe eommissione ...'i i' to let the otiur clergyman go to assist tiiere for the service ot the nv-' . I- •aw. . In addition to that there is Jo;}/. 4. v. for four labourers and boatmen in the department of the stoiekeeiHT of the Ordnance ?— If it is in the Ordnancs de|Kntment, 1 do not Miiiik that boat so necessary as the garrison boat. It was kept so couipktely to themselves that I m vcr could benefit by it myself. They never would let me touch it. ,503. There are four boats altogether ; one belonging to the engineers, one to the garrison, one to the ordnance, and one to the commissariat department r— There are. -,04. Are they all necessary ?— If they were put under a proper regulation, so that thev coulil be under one head, and that they could be used tor His Majesty's Gfneral .Sir //. Turner. 7 Ap'-.l 1835. service, "I think they would be useful; but if the wliole four draw one way, and another another, tliey are not of nnicii use. I never coulil send the garrison boat at a time it was absolutely neie>sary to be taken up. It \>as constantly on the water, and the others I had noliiing to say to. The commissariat let me have theirs more than the otiier departments, r,or,. Are you aware that there is an allowance to the storekeeper ot the ord- naiice ilepartment of ■J4/. 1 1 v. 7 d. per annum ?— Yes ; for a horse. -iofi. It is stated to be for travelling allowance ?— As that gentleman never would aiio« iiK- lo Ik-.vc his boat, 1 latiser «oiuler how I Ap)'-d t!'.:it; but the com- missary brought me the allowance for the horse, and as the storekeeper never had a horse, and never used a horse, and kept the boat lo biinseU, 1 thought there uas no iiasoii why he should have that allowance, and I struck it oil. (Ml. r;J fjO?. There General Sir H. Turner. 7 April 1835. 38 MINin r.S 01 KVIDKNCE HKFORK SF.Ll.CT COMMITTEi: .'■,07. There is alsu an ullowance to tlic servant oftlic storekeeper of 27/, 7,5. 6d. per aniuiui? — I do nut know of tlie custom of the artillery in tiicse res|)ecls, and, therefore, I cannot answer tliat. .■-,oS. It appears that the charnc of 24/. 11 ,v. (it(r and the ordnance storekeeper aie uiuh^r one depart- ment ? — Yes ; there would be nothing to cla>h otherwise ; there would not be two masters. ,■5 1 1). Can you give the Committee any information respecting the l)akery, as there appears to be a great number of baker.s ? — 'I'hey have so much to do with coi-'rncts and in money matters of various kind^, that 1 cannot very well answer us to the duties of the commissariat. (JoloncI Wi/litim Smell, called in ; and I'.xamined. Col. ifm.Smrlt. 51(1. YOL' were some time in Jiermuda, were you not ?— Yes. ff2\. Conimaniling a regiuunt?~Ves. f,-2-2. From what period to what period ?— From November iSjo to November 1S3J. ,-,23. At tilt time you were there hail you one or two regiments of the lino' — Two regiments. .-,24. Was the duty rerpiired such as to make that force necessary ? — No, 1 do not know that it was at that time; but I believe before ne went the convicts were breaking out. They were rather alarmed about them, and we were sent as an augmentation regiment in conseipience of the ^tate of the convicts there. ',2',. 'llial seciiud ugiinent has sul)K(puMtly been withdrawn- — It has. ,'^26. What is till daily amount of force recjuired for the duties there? At St. George there uu only two strni ants' guard, for the barracks guard and the town guard, 'i'jiin tlu re is Ireland iMand, which is a di-tiiK I place, alxait iN iiiik^ .lis- taiil, where the iiavul departmeiii i> Their guard was aloul a sergeanl an.! 1;, mill, ill L'eiieral. •MMITTKi: r of 27/. 7,5. 6rf. se respecls, aiul, keeper is not lor ivcllini^ cxpeUMS s liis boilt, viliith o several oi" the , or the cliarj^es ;ivval)le to any of ent an otVicer to J not know what lowed travelling III, and has been ii;er man than I t Xinvloimciiand not understand island, or before r, or the store- The storekeeper .ieputy assistants reasury. I jiad , from the duties to perform, where there arc iets. ordnance ; ami, )ne department r tliat happened, lastcr and store- inai^ter is now ui(T one depart - ould not be two bakery, as tiierc lo with cop'riicts mswcr us to the 10 to November ,s of tlic line ' — »ry ? — No, I do lie convicts were ivere sent as an there. -It lias. lies there? — At rd and the town lit |S mile- iliN- ierjieanl an.! 1;, ,J7- The ON MILITAUY KSTAIiUSILMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 39 ,'527. The duties are quite sufficient to require a whole battalion there? — I should Cnl. ti'm. Smeft. tliink they were, of the present strenjith of the battalion, six companies. ,V2S. Do you consider that the medical staff assistant-surgeon is necessary, con- 7 April 183,^ sidering there is the medical statV of the regiment and a medical officer of the artil- lery : — I should tliink he was necessary for Ireland Island, because a large detach- ment goes tiiere, and in case of sickness they would require a medical man. fi2(j. Would not the assistant-surgeon of the regiment go there? — Yes; but in case of sickness they would lie without a surgeon at St. CJeorge. ,530. Where are the artillery statioiu I? — The artillery used to be stationed at Fort (Ainningham ; but tiiey h.ive been at the Royal barracks since I came away. 5;li. Tiien you are of opinion that one stall" assistant-surgeon is necessary? — I think so. 532. Is it necessary to have an officer in charge of the signal station? — No, I should think not. I'here was none in charge of the signal station when I was there ; the fort adjutant liatl charge of it. ,'533. It appears that be receiveil double pay for that ? — He bad charge of the signals and other things, and I believe he had to kee[) it in repair ; to provide the halyards or ropes. .')34. Are you aware that there are four different boats kept by the government, for the (lidLrent dcipartments r^Tliere were three, I think, when I was there. .'■)3.''). Are they all tiirce necessary ?— During the time the works were going on at Ireland Island I siiould think they were, for there is a great deal of communi- cation recpiired between the Islaiul and St. Cicorge. 536. Arc there not constantly works going on there?— There was during the time 1 was there, and I believe even now. 1 believe the military works may be finished ; but 1 heard that tiie naval works "cre not to be finished for some years to come. ,'537. Are you of opinion that an assistant commissary-general and two deputy commissary-generals are necessary ?— The assistant is necessary, but perhaps one of the de[iuty assistants is suflicient ; though there again you must have somebody at Ireland Island to issue and to take charge. 538. For what service is the bakery employed? — For the troops generally. I do not know whether it is employed for tiic navy or not. ,539. I believe in most garrisons abroad the bakers are chosen from the regi- ment ; soldiers are employed as bakers? — If they have them, they generally take tiiem. ,540. Are the troops generally healthy in Bermuda throughout the year ? — Yes, I should say they were. ,541. I believe there is one season of the year when there is a Bermuda fever? — 1 was fortunate enough not to be there at that time, but I have heard there is. 542. Are spirits given with the rations to the troops ? — They were when we first went there, but they were discontinued. 543. Finding it atVected the health of the troops? — I do not know. I rather think it was better for the troops to have that (piantity, for many reasons. 5.44. For what reasons ? — In the first place, we bad so little fresh provisions; we only had fresh |)rovisions twice a week, and the water is very bad at times. The system 1 adopted was to have spirits mi.xed under the officer's eye, and issued at dinner time, and tiu n it prevented the men from going into the canteen between that and parade ; and tlu y were whether the duties of the storekeeper arc very f 4 considerable U' ' '' Col. Wm. Smelt. 7 April 1835. 40 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE I think they lie luis chu jf the naval stores ell considerable ? — 1 as of the military stores 5,-)i. Is it your opinion tiiat it is possible for the same ofTiccr to |tcrforni the duties of storekeeper and of barrack-master r — No, I think not. 1 know the situa- tion of barrack-master is a very difficult b'v' arduous situation. Captain Sir 7'. Cochrane. Captain Sir Thomas Cochraiv:, late Governor of Ncwfoundiaiul, called in; and Examined. 552. YOU were for some time Governor of Newfoundland ? — Yes. 553. When did you come home ? — 1 returned home in the end of November last. 554. What was the amount of military force you had under your command ? — The military force appro|)riatcil to the colony oriirinally was three companies of veterans, (a veteran battalion, comj)rising three companies,) ami a company of artillery. 555. Was that the amount of force you left there? — That was the nominal amount of force ; but the number never was complete after the force was first sent out. 556. How long were you governor of Newfoundland ? — I was governor nomi- nally for near 10 years. I was actually there, with occasional leave of absence, nine years. ,';,)7. Can y^u inform the Committee whether it is practicable to make any re- ductions eitlie I the military or civil departments of Newfoinulland ' — Certainly not in the military department ; on the contrary, I think the military force at pre- sent there, as I have represented to the Government at dilViucnt periods, iiuidecjuate to the proper performance of the regular garrison duty, and that it has fallen with undue severity upon those men wh- have been there. I think if the corps appro- priated to Newfoundland were kept complete, they would be sutlicient for the ser- vice required of them ; but they have always been incomplete and inetiicient, both in resjiect of the numiicr and de.icription of men. 558. What should be the number for tiiceliective state of the coips ?— The num- ber for the effective state of the corps should be about 300 or 310, rank and fde. 559. It appears that it is under '230 ? — Yes, it has been very low indeed. To give the men four nights in bed, whici really is (]uite little cnuiigh in that rigorous climate, it requires 170 privates to give the proper relief; and supposing the corp» complete, it w ill leave oidy ,50 men for contingencies. 5()0. Are there any detached to ditlerent stations: — No, there are not ; but it might become necessary to send a detachment to another district ; and if so, the garrison, as now constituted, could not atiord it. There are not men sufHcient to do the regular garrison duty. 5(>i. It appears from some evidence before the Committee, that there is a yacht kept for the use of the governor; do you consider it absolutely necessary that a yacht shoidd be kept up, or so large a vessel as at |)resent : — 1 think it is (piite ul- cessary that the vessel should be kept up. The size at jircsent is not more than adecpiate for the pur|)ose for which she is wanted. She is not wanted exclusively for the governor's use; she is recjuired when necessary to send detachments ol troops to dill'erent parts of the islands, and she should be able to carry them. She has also occasionally to go to Halifax for the mail, or in other services : she has had to go to i'.nghuul with de--patehes, and she has been sent to cruize when com- plaints have been mule of the conduct of the IVcncli with respect to the fisliery, and to prevent suiii;:gliMg, and other duties. 1 do not think a smaller vessel would be sutlicient. It vvas originally a (piestion whether a man-of-war should be employed or a colonial vessel ; and the Admiralty were very much averse, and I think with reason, to employing a man-of-war. Tin; duties are irksome as well as troublesome, and the |)iobal)ilities were that it would luing the governor and the captain of the man-of-war into contliet trom his not l)eing under his immediate command, and the service would not be as etliciently perf>, in which ca-,e the inan-of-w,tr which is annually sent there might be dispensed with, unless in some case of einergfiiey , MMITTEE ml stores as well cr to |tcrforni the I know the situa- iiul, called ill } -Yes. •nd of November our command ? — nt'c companies ol" 111 a company ot was the nominal he force was first is governor nomi- leave of absence, c to make any rc- lland ' — Certainly itary force at pre- criods, iiu:riiig the yivcrudi t being under ins ly performed ; and or of that descrip- •lit has to prrfiiiiii, ested to the .Secie- i->e the inaii-(jf-w.ii' ss in some case of emergency , ll. VA 7 April 1835. Col. v. Burkt. ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 41 emergency ; and I think that would be the cheapest arrangement, and I am not CnptHiB certain that it would not be the most efficient. ^ "■ '• CmJiranf. ,502. Is the yacht an armed vessel? — Yes, she is armed with eight small guns, and has 20 men altogether. In answer to tlic question, whether there is any pos- sibility of reduction in the military establishment there, I am not aware of anything further, (particularly as I understand one commissariat officer has been reduced, and I think there was one more on that establishment than neces.sary,) excepting that it appears to me at present there is no necessity for a field officer of engineers there. 1 think a suhiiltern would answer the purpose. There are no works going on, and nothing for an officer to do. ,563. You had a field officer, or captain, and a subaltern? — There is a field officer and a subaltern, no captain. 5(14. Are lliere pny works going on now? — None whatever. There are works contemplated and planned, but I apprehend it will probably be a long period before they arc undertaken. 565. Is Placeniia in Newfoundland r — Yes, but that is an abandoned work. Colonel Thomas Burke, called in ; and Examined. .566. YOU were for some time stationed at Newfoundland ?— For seven years. 567. In what capacity? — I was commanding the troops there as senior officer. _— — — ,568. At what period did you leave Newfoundland? — I left it in 1831. 56;). What do you consider the amount of military force necessary for the duty of Newfoundland ? — A little more than there is now. There are three companies of veterans now, but I never thought them sufficient ; the climate is so very severe I never thought them sufficient. I always thought there might be a fourth com- pany there uilh advantage. 570. Tlie climate during the winter is very severe upon the troops? — Very severe indeed. 571. They are cliiefly veterans? — They are all veterans, except the artillery. 572. The troops receive their rations, do they not? — Yes, like the other troops of the army on foreign stations. 573. Do they receive spirits with their rations? — Yes. 574. Are they in general healthy ? — They are. It is a very healthy place, but they drink too much ; rum is too clieap there. I have seen several brought to the hospital drunk, and die in an hour afterwards. 575. Are you aware of any reduction that can be made in the military staff attached to the government? — I am not aw are that there may be any made. The staff is very small ; tiicie are two engineers, two commissaries, and a fort major. There are no other oflicers. 576. What is the commandant of Newfoundland ? — He commands the troops. 577. Were the two commissaries at Newfoundland when you were there? — There were three. One since that has been reduced. ,578. Do you consider the two are necessary ? — 1 believe so. ,1571). What have they to do beyond furnishing rations to the troops? — Nothing; rations and pay to the troops. They formerly acted as treasurers for the issue of money, but they are not now so employed ; a treasurer has been appointed by the legislative assembly. 580. Do you think that one commissary could not do all the duty? — I suppose he might ; I am not certain as to that. 581. Do you consider that a field officer of engineers might be removed, and the corps be left to the command of a junior officer ?— If there are no works going on, then he might, but not otherwise. 582. Were there any works going on when you were there? — Not latterly. Francis Robert Bonham, Esq., a Member of the Committee, Examined. 583. CAN you account tor the amount of salary paid to Mr. Philips, storekeeper F. R.Bonham, Esq. at Bermuda, amounting with allowances to .'if,!/. 45. T i d. per annum ?— Mr. "•^- Philips having been employed as storekeeper from the year 1798, is entitled to the -^— — highest salary of that rank ; having been appointed storekeeper at Bermuda in 10 1 8, previous to the King's warnuil of Dceember 1025. ,1584. On his removal, what will his successor be entitled to? — His successor will he entitled to a salary of 250 /. per annum ; nnd whatever inoy be the length 0.1 1. of 42 MINUTES or EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 7 April 1835. F. It. Bnn}iam,Ei(\. of his services, tlic inaxiinum of iiis increase will be 3.")<)/. In additioii to that "•'■• Mr. Philips is entillcii to -'4/. 7 .v. ful. a year for horsc-hirc aiul travelling expenses, by un ok! Ordnance re;.;iilution ; anil that ^^ arrant of 182,'; entitles all ^torekeepers to a certain amount ot travellinj» expenses. The allowances in fact (or truvelliiif^ expenses and servants are altojielhcr f, 1 /. i,")*. That makes 5 1 1 /. He has allowances in kind also; mtions for himself and inaii servant. Jovis, 9" die AprWs, 1835. R. jr. lley, Esq. 9 April 1835. ^ SIR JOHN BYNG, IN THE CHATR. Robert Jt'tlliam Hay, Esq., again called in ; and Examined. 585. WHAT is the amount of force in Canada i'rom the last return', we have in 1834? — The amount of force in Canada appears t) he 2,408 in the yiar 1834. 580. Can you g've us the distribution of the forces?— I have a relurn from the Adjutant-general's olficc, made up to the end of March, and I now give it in. [ The Return was handed i«.] ,587. Have you the means of stating to the Committee the amount of forces kept up in the (Janadas prior to 181(1?— By a comparative return whicli I Imve before mc, it appears that in 1792 there were 2,800 men in Canada, in the year 1814 there were 16,288. The consolidated Relurn, which is already before the Committee, will furnish the number for subsequent years. ,588. Does the command of the connnander of the forces extend beyond the province? — Lord Aylmer, the commander of the forces, has command over the whole of the North American provinces. 589. And he is responsible for tiie proper distribution of forces? — No doubt he is. 590. What is the extent of frontier towards the United States? — I should suppose it must be nearly 1,000 miles. 591. What iu the militia force in each province? — The militia force in the Lower province amounts to 94,00(1 men ; that of the Upper, to 34,000 men. ,592. Has any systematic plan been pursued for putting those provinces in a jiroper state of defence? — A military commission was a[)pointed in 1825 for the purpose of intpiiring into this luulier ; and a very full report on the subject was made to the Government by the engineer oflici rs appointed to this duty. .^qj. Has tiiat report been acted on to any ccjosiderable extent? — The com- missioners recommended tiiat a citadel should be erected at Quebec ; that certain works should be eonstrucled at Point Ilemy at Kingston. The Riiieau Canal, which forinn u hack military water couHnunication between Lake Ontario and Montreal, formed part of tlie general plan for the defence of His Majesty's North American jjrovinces. 594. Is the citadel at Quebec completed ? — The citadel at Quebec is completed. 59.",. Did not the commi^^iohcrs reconmu ml tlir eonstnietion of a citadel at Montreal? — Ves, they did. /59(i. Ilns that brm done: — It has not been done. .',97. Is King.'-ton still kc|)t up as a naval station?— it has been altogether abandoned as a naval station. The sum of 7,000/. is voted for fortilications there, in the ordnance estimates of this year. /■,()S. I> the Uidiau Canal no\v <)|)tiicd r — The (,'anal has been opened since the auttniin ol 1 Sjj. ,',09- Have yon any ntmn of tin amount of tcjlh: collected aniuially? — Tlie amount ol toils btlwetn the jisl Dceeniiar 18 ;2, and the same dale 1833, amounted to j,.'," 4 /. ()()(>. Were not llu: Indium tubes employed as allies in the wars of this country with the I'liited Stales' — They uere, in bolli tlie American wars. Were thev paid as soldieis, when so emploved r — iiiev received rations, .liey paid as soldiers, wlien so emplovei but no |)ay, I believe. lioj. J)o they receive any pay or emolument in time of peace no pay; hut presents aie issued to them anmi.div. :— Tl lev receive 00 Of ITTliE litioii to tliiit (1 travt'linf^ 'i entitles all anccs ill fact innkcB 511 /. t. IS we have in ar 1 834. uirn Iroiu the vc it in. 3unt of forces which I imve , in the year dy before the beyond the anil over the ■ — No doubt i? — I should force in the )o men. provinces in in 1825 for e subject was 'ty. — riie com- ; that certain lidcau Canal, Ontario and ijesty's North is completed, a citadel at 111 altogether cations there, ned since tlic lually ? — The i date 1833, tliis country L;ivcd rations, They receive Ouj. l)f ON MILITARY ESTAIILISIIMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 43 603. Of what do those presents consist? — Various articles of dress ; clothes, U.W. Hay,V.t<\. blankets, r.eodles, knives, tobacco, Morkiu;^ utensils, bends, &c. — < — — — 604. lias any attempt been muper Canada? — Yes. Sir .lames Kempt, in tlie Lower pro- vince, had the same pay as Lord Aylmer, when he first took the command. ftio. From what fund are the civil allowances paid? — The civil salary of the commander of t!ie forces was, until 183:?, paid from tiie proceeds of certain duties levied under the Act of 14 Cjco. 3. When those duties were given up to the Assembly, it was expected tliat a civil list would be grunted, from which this salary would have been paid. This not being acceded to by the Assembly, Lord Aylmer was directed to charge his salary on the land and timber fund. In point of fact, however, the Assembly having refused to pass any supply bill, Lord Ayl- mer has only been enabled ! receive a [iroportion of his salary from the funds which are at tlie disposal of the ("rown ; the deficiency for the year 1833 was last year ordered to be made up from the military cfiest. In the Upper province. Sir .lohn Colborne's .salary is paid from the casual and territorial revenue. (ill. What is the amount of the revenue of each province? — The revenue of Lower Canada amounts to about 130,000/. per annum; that of the Upper pro- vince to something between 70,000/. and 80,000/. per annum. ()!•>. Have those revenues increased much within the last 10 years? — They iiave been in a course of progressive increase until lately. ()13. What is the population of Lower Canada? — By the returns of 1833, the population of the Lower province is 308,449; that of the Upper province, of the same year, 296,544. ()I4. Is there any reduction contemplated by die ColoniiU OlHcc in Canada ? — I am not aware of any being in contemplation. ()i5. The appointment of governor and lieutenant-general, held by Major-gene- ral Strntt and Lieutenant-general Dilkes, will cease at the expiration of their lives ? — Yes; they belou" to the cla.'is of non-ell'ective garrison apjiointments, and will not be renewed after the death of the present holders. (ii(). Wiial is the sum allowed to the commander of the forces in America? — Lord ;\ylmer at present enjoys 4,500/. per j.iinum civil salary, and allowances ninounting to nearly -.',000/. per annum, as I have already stated. (117. Have you a return of the military appointments, corrected up to this pt^jjuiip — 1 hjivu it as far as the names of the parties are concerned and their ap- pointments; but it is not perfect with regard to their pay and allowances. (ti8. Will you give in a return as nearly as you can furnish it?— I will meeting of th endeavour to have it prepared in sullicient time for the next C'oinmittee. ()U). With regard to the militia of the Lower and Upper jirovinccs, I wish to ask if they are armed, clotheil aiul available for service, if wanted ? — They are not ittined ; bui iIrju are anij>ie stores in the coloisy, liuiii wliicii tiieyeau beiuinishcd ' aecoutreinents in ease of eincrgeney . They muster arms ily lay the year ; they have no clo Ihir () JO. In fact the militia is nothing u»oie than the registration of able-bodied men, Il :' f 44 MINUTES Ol- EVIDENCF. IIEFOTIE SELECT COMMITTER H.jy^n^^. „en,^ .ho „,ight be callal out if w„„te". —^ -■ 628 Is (he population enrolled in the militia so scattered as that tbev couhl not a shorllimr"'' together:^-! imagine it would be in.possible lo ccEt tt.n S vea^rl^-Tlef 'nil'" ''"^^"''«.!« "•"^•'••' '''«'" for ti,e purpose of training once every «er.m^inn ^ T. '7^ "!''","'"" '" ^'' ^'*'^'^" *>"'" "'^i-- »"«■•"'« and their owu occupations. They have by law only one training day in the year. 6w. Is there any other information you can give to the Committee resnectin.. the v^anadas r-1 am not aware tliat there is any. respecting 631. Do you consider that any reduction in the military expenditure can be Mcmiiii, H" die Julii, 183.5. ROBERT (iORDON, ESQUIRE, IN THE CHAIR. 8 July i( The Right Honourable General S\r James Kempt, called in; and Examined. Kt. Hon. General <^32. 11 AVINCJ heard the evidence of Afr Iln., r-,„,i i lasr o ve.rs hnv 1 1 '"^ "'"■' "^"""'"'S^'- "'"t ^very Ciovernment for the last 10 years have been anxious to reduce the militarv expenditure of Canada Iv (>33. liiis it ever rendered more eflic iippcarcd to vou that tht estublishments and the reaui lent, and t»v being rend ir annv mi niilitia force in Cunada might be ' ;irv ercd mure ethcioiit, that the milit ilil with sately be din.ijnisiicd in number r — Canada )M.Mi'nr.F. etween the uges of would be possible t the provinces ? — 10 at Moiilrcal and )f tlicir militia? — lint in the I'ppcr ming und iraininj; efl'ectivc force of altogether ?— One ? — One company thed, armed and at they could not collect tliem in nining once every IS and their own r. nittcc respecting )endiiure can he Committee have 1 that nay as is AIR. lid Examined. any observation relative to the lur opinion take that could take Committee ; he he present state eminent for the of Canada, by c rejjular force ; > und I am not reduced in any hclicvc, less by d to in I'arliii- under its con- n.'ida might be lit the military L'd in ninnbcrr — Canuda 4 ON M1I.IT.\|{V KSTAm.ISH.MKNTS IN Tlii: COI.ONIKS. 41 —Canada is very peculiarly circumstanced ; it has a most extensive frontier to the United States of America, open in every point, and is for six months in the year without any direct communication with England. I am of opinion, that even if a considerable portion of the militia were rendered efficient, the small regular force now in Canada would nevertheless be necessary to support and give confi- dence to the militia of the colony. There are lur^-c depdts of military stores to protect in (Janada, and there ought to be at all times in the country a regular military force sufficient for the protection of the town and citadel of Quebec, the 34. Does the plan that has lately been introduced into the Upper provinces, of training one com|)any of each battalion of militia, meet with your approbation ? —Perfectly ; I believe training any portion of the militia under the authority of the fiovrrnment is a judicious measure, and one which ought to be encouraged as much as possible. C35. Would you lie induced to extend that same plan into the Lower provinces ? — Un(|uestionubly. In atlministering the government of Lower Canada, I did everything in my power to induce the legislature to pass an eftective militia law; such as to afloid the governor, at all times, tiie means of having a few thousand efficient militia in the event of any emergency ; and I at one time entertained a hope tliut such a law would have been passed, it was thrown out however by the House of Assembly. The militia is a very formidable body upon paper, it consisting of the wh()le male po|)ulation of the province between I'S and (io years of age ; but it cannot in its present state be considered a military force, for the existing law only requires that the com[)anies shall be nmstercd once u year; and they are not trained in any way, or armed, or clothed, in time of peace. C13G. Do you consider that the completion of the military works that have been constructed and are now constructing for the defence of Canada, when completed, will justify the diminution of the regular force of Canada r— I do not ; I tiiink the only works in progress at jiresent are those at Kingstown, and when they are finisiiecl it will require the small number of troops that are stationed there for" their protection. b;}7. So far from the military works, when completed, justifying the diminution of military fnce, you think that military force will be rcfiuired to protect them?— Undoubtedly ; tlu>e works are intended to cover our depots, to keep up our com- munication, antl to render the defence of the counti'y more easy in time of war. 6,38, Look ut the Return of the distribution of the forces, and see whether yon think that in the (letail any diminution could take \>\Mer—[T/ic Wilne.s-s /ookcd over the Rtti/ni.] The distribution is nearly the same as when I commanded in the Canndas, and i.s such as I approved of at the time ; I am not of opinion tiiat any material alterations can be made in it. (),5(> I think yon gave an opinion just now, that the works at Canad i diil not tend to lessen the number of troops there ? 'I'he few military works in Canada will render a less number of troops necessary for the defence of the country in time of war ; but they cannot be left unprotected in time of peace. Quebec is, in fact, the only place of strength in the Canailas. (J40. Do you think the employment of an extra battalion more or less, could have any etfect in regard to the (juestion of peace und war in the United States of America ?— Certainly not ; if America was disposed to go to war, one additional fmttalion in Canada would, I apprehend, not prevent her doin" so. (141. Sup|)ose a questici to arise b( tweeii us and the United States of America, with regard to tiie boundary, would an extra battalion have any etlect whatever in settling that question ?— Certainly not in settling that (piestion ; but the officer commanding in New IJrunswick would require the assistance of all the regular troops that could be sent him, to support the militia of that province ; and the extra battalion would, I apprehend, be placed under his orders. t)^-2. Would not that question, in a time of peace, be rather a question of nego- tiation tiian a (juestion of opposition ?— It is u question which will 1 trust be settled by negotiation between His Majesty's (Jovernment and the government of the United States of America. Hut the i'nhabitants of the State of Maine have shown u (iisposition to make inroads into the disputed territory, and the otticer commanding in New Brunswick ought to have tiie means of ieueliin>^' of that kind. ^ lion. (•(iiiiHJ Jiinitk Kem/t, 8 July l8j6. O.I I. p any attempt 643. What f in 46 MINUTKS OF F.VIDKNCK iJKFOHl' SFI. Rl. Hon. Cmral 643. WIlUt is v r:rT coMMnxi^r: hir ^ffifrt KtmiA ■"•/''• out ot tliis country ; do voii tl our opinion uith re^.„(| to tl link It" cnlistmi'iil of •July 1833. I If ' / ;.,«,»ii.i.,.,,.,„M7;;;;^^;:r;;™;;:,:;:;:(;;; t men in lio oHtTs "o .linicul.y in tornnn, . colon. ^pu'^nuiZ i/'"^''"''''''^ "•^'"'' '^^ "ot rw;on,mL...I ; tl,,. „,il„a,y force kiVinr 'n' > ' " " ""''■"'"*^ "'''••'' ' 'lo tl.0 very l,est dc.scn,.,ioM of tCji ' '""^" """'"' '" '"y ^'l'""""- t« be of «ou^n.u. tl. United ^tatc. tor u.^ ,..;; ■;;::!;:?i:;.-;-y-7 - ^-i«. .u cniployncnt of such u force i.^ wo.Il I ^e^^^^^^^^ ' '"'^■^' ''^ »''« o» troops of ilH. line, and .'.luailye ,.";", mu2i.r;T "^ '? "'?' """'^'='- and men. I,y l„.i„^, t\^^,^^ i„(!,„„i, ' ' , n . '""""'^"'- I »i«i- that the ofKccrs un ini:;.i!r S':!!::;!;;:^.:--!; ;,;;;-. ;<■>' "-nption of officer, uould ,.e of tl.. great extent of ou tr2 '^^^^ ,;"; i;^-'' '^ "- -^^ > -1 considering ficneral servic... nrni of the n o cS "^^^^ ^^T'^' "'"'y ""^''^ »» ''f ior tlic Inchest .state <,f ,1 dp ■ ' ' l*^"' ,"'"' ''^ "' "" times kept in I'ortion of the troops fron ! o)lo v ^rJ, l'^ S ' ''-"''''''y "^ "'""''■^'^^ " the en.cr,encies o/the scrvic^ and'S ^ l^rliiLa t ll^ '" """"^^' "^^"^''"'" '" Or,!!. 111,.,-,,,, 1,11 I-.,. , ■' "^'in.v.. l."e, and infinitely interior to the n i wd Jsoe r^^ "s e.xpens.ve a.s troops of the tant Ibrtress. and the sn.aH .. i -t ^^ ^tVe^^ "' ,"7 " T^ '•"••°^- »as in , 7,)J oufjht to l,e of the vJ-.Zr . ' ^'"""'" ("""' '^■'^'^ "'"" it fi,13. Are the Troops in .u^l-'-f'^^.u '■''?'''"' "'"' ^""^'''•"' ^" I"-""''^t it. a i.u. arc en,>loyed L .uard^ on pulf "ull!:'"' '" '"'""^ "' l""-^-No; ,,ut ,c;^:l:.l^" ;l:'^..!;:^i:':^^'^^' V: "-"-^ -n-'i^^ - .1.-0 situations in which co,..- mon police are e.nployed in th,s countr y^-No ' '" """ '^'""""'" '" ^^■'''^'' ^'^- (t.-i.^. .My (juestKjii applies t„ the "uardiii.r „r „.w,l ■ v Ti . • • , Lower Cnnada are .a (i, ,|,,, ,„.j m"o , •! " a, .f ? ' t ' !' '"■'""''"' """''' '"" «u,nd for their protection, to prirttet'"''/''"^''""" T'' " '""''" ""'''^"y »" charge of lliL persons con L^l" , , ^ ' ' "'^ ''?"""" = '"'* '^ ""'''='0^ -'^^ interior manauenent of the « . ' ""'' '"•"'" ■■^' "'""'^"■'' '" ''" "'•'' "''' 1 I inter 'i-,0. /\re OMMiTTia; cmif^rniits who j.„ «)t' iiiioii, to be of C'aniida to tlie . The militia f confidence in lion of rcf^'idar Hired in Jndiu. ie!57. Are the luMp. not employed, to some extent, in performin).' those services which are m this country performed liy the police ?— No. The Rimrds at the gooU are only employed m the manner I have before mentioned ; but tliey huvc nolliina to do «ith the internal police of the town. Tii'j military are liable (us in this comilry) to be called out by the civil u.uthorities to (piell nota. ClH. Ill point of fact, men arc employed in Canada in |K;rformin;.' duties nt n Rttol, 111 which the military are not emploved in tliis country "r Only us I have men- tioned. In this country the jrauls have, I believe, no military protection : u small iion-commi^Moned olhcer's gmni mounts daily at the two principal prisons in Lower Canada. (irxj. Is that owiiif" to the comparative insecurity of the gaols ?— Yes. btJo. Wij-ht not those gaols be so improved as not to require a military j;uttrd? — Certainly ; but the civil authorities of the country would, I think, nevertheless consider u small military >;uard necessary to prevent tho escape of prisoners, I believe that in all the colonies such protection is utVorded. (JO I. Would it not be very desirable that the ^hoIs should be improved, so that It would not be necessary that they should bo nn'.ved there .'—The officers in the command of tlie troops are always desiiou.'* "i' ;,'iii,,iiishinK as much as possible the military duties. b<)i. Was it ever broiifrht under yo..r consideration when you were (here, whether it would not be more ex|)edieiit to render the gaols stronger, and theiebv to relieve the soldiers from the necessity of guarding them ?— The improvement qf the prisons at Quebec and .Montreal was a subject which I brought under Uic notice ol llie legislature, and at my recommendation considerable sums of money were voted for that purpose. f)6;j. In consequence of the sums of money being voted, did any reduction take place in the amount of troops required for the safe keeping o» persons ?— No. I think tlie gaol at Montreal was under repair when I left Canada; but a smalt guard, consisting of a sergeant and 1 1 men (to afford three or four sentries), will still be considered necessary. CO4. At each gaol ?— Yes ; one at Montreal, and another at Quebec. 6b5. Do you not think gaols might be made sufficiently secure without the employment of troops ? — Unquestionably they might. Ofil). Are they ut present suClciently secure :— I should say not, for prisoners did in fact escape both from the gaol at Montreal and Quebec when I was in ('anaila. fit);. Do you think something ought to Ik; done to prevent soldiers being em- ployed in that service r— I think any measure that can diminish the extent of mili- tary duty is viry desirable. tiOS. M'ouid not that diminish it, so far as it goes ?— The small guards that are attached to these two goals at Montreal and Quebec would be saved by it. ()()(). Suppose a number of prisoners were obliged to be removed from one place to another, would a iiiiiitaiy guard be required? — I have no recollection of ai:v thing ol the kind hiip|)enii)i;. If the civil power made a re(|uisition to the military authoritits, that any number of men were indispensal)ly necessary to remove pri- soner?., no doubt sucli demand woukl i)e complied witii, but I do not recollect any >uch request being made while 1 was in Canada. C70. Is it the custom to call out a military guard ut Quebec, in case of common ilisturlmnces in the towuf — No. (71. Nor in such eases as police would be able to manage here? — No such thing took place during the time I commamled in Canada. G7-'. Even if the troops were not to do duly at the gaols, do you think it would be cx|)edient to reduce llie |)resent forcer — 1 think it would be highly injudicious, lor the reasons which I have before stated, to reduce in any way the number of troops now serving in Canada. It might bo possible to take away one battalion, if a certain portion of tiie militia wen; regularly trained and always kept in an (.thcient slate; but uitlulrauing any portion of the regular force now in Canada Mould, in my opinion, have a Ixid moral ell'eet, and induce His Majesty's Canadian Mjbjects to UuuL th.at (ireai Hritain attached less imponaiice to the colony than I formerly b;.)- 1 think vo u said that, although keeping on the establishment a re giroent more 48 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Rt. Hon. General more Of less, might not affect the general question of peace or war, still I suppose if !>ir Jam.! Kempt, the reduction was carried below that point, below 2,400 men, which I tliink you 8 July 1835. Stated as the amount of English in that country, might not that appear tobetray a sort of weakness on the part of Enj^land ?— I think it might have that effect. 674. Do you consider the troops necessary merely as a defence against the United States, and not as requisite for the internal peace of the country ? — When I was in Canada, troops were not absolutely necessary to preserve the internal peace of the country ; but in the position in which Canada is placed with respect to the United States, and seeinff that there are very considerable depdts of military stores in the colony, and a fortress to protect, the force now there is highly neces- sary in my opinion. 675. "i ou have said, that on account of the extent of frontier witich you have to defend, that you consider that force rcquisi .e ; and you afterwards said, you consi- dered there were only troops requisite tc defend the single garrison that exists there ; explain that answer ?— The extent of frontier was only alluded to, to show the facility of entering Canada from the United States ; and having built, at great expense, a fortress to uphold our dominion in that part of the world, the colony ought not to be left so destitute of troops, as not to have the means of piotecting it, in the event of any sudden invasion from the United States. 676. For the protection of the garrison, to prevent a surprise? — Yes. 677. Are you aware that the militia was called out and organized duriu" the war with the United States?— Yes, a certain portion were called out. "^ 678. When was that organization allowed to drop ?— I suppose after the con- clusion of the war; the training ceased, and the arms were returned into store. 679-. Po you mean to say that, during the whole time you were in the country, the militia were not organized ?— During my administration of the government of Lower Canada, I formed the militia into companies and battalions ; but, as I before stated, they are totally inefficient as a military body ; they can Oiily by law be calkil out for muster in their respective parishes once a year, and are not trained to arnis, or clothed. (jSo. Do you not consider that it would more important to have an effective militia there, the same as they have in ti, United States, instead of trusting to 2,000 liritish troops?— It would be very desirable to have u well-regulated efficient militia force in Canada ; but the British troops now there would stiTl be necessary, in my opinion. (iSi. Do you consider that 2,400 British troops are now sufficient to protect the country, in the view you take of it, without an organized militia?— In the event of a war with the United States, the country can only be defended by a very con- siderable miliiury force of regular troops and well-trained efficient militia ; in such a case, the Canadians will, I have no doubt, evince the same loyalty and spirit that they ilid during the last war. 682. Did yon represent to tiie Government at home here the necessity of organizing a militia?— I represented the total inefficiency of the militia force, and the Government were exceedingly anxious to rmve it placed upon a good footing. 683. Wouhl the permanent or^anizatio.i of a militia force be a popular measure among them?— The militia is ft rmed iuto battalions and coui|)nnies, and is a formidable boily upon paper, but the men are not in any way trained to arms, the law only allowing the governor to call them out for muster in their parishes one day in each year. The Canadians have a great desire to become officers of militia, but frequent trainings, such as would be necessary to render it an efficient force', would be an unpopular measure in time of peace : to that cause do I attribute the failure in the House of Assembly of the plan which I recommended for the improvement of the militia. 684. Did you allude to the present state of the representation, where 67 out of the 72 are in opposition to Government; did you allude to the state of the coimtry as rendering it dangerous to leave it entirely to a militia?— In tlie present state ol l.ssarmt: how can they be employed P-Penetanguishone is now the ^reat depot m Upper Canada, from whence presents are issued to the Indians : but that will not justify, in my opinion, keeping pernmncntly there so great a commissariat establishment. 1 he presents are issued at one period of the year, and I should think may be sent up annually. j , o. uuiu 725- Is there not a fixed quantity of stores given out each year to the Indians? — Yes, the presents arc issued to the Indians under fixed regulations: but I may mention that every pains has been taken of late years to reduce the expense of the Indian department, and to induce the different tribes to conform to the usages of civilized life, and to become fanners. Implements of husbandry and seeds^have been m many instances issued to them with that view, in lieu of the usual presents. 726. Is there not a considerable form, and some officers appointed generally to superintend that department?— Yes. *' ^lany lu 727. Then if that is done annually, and the stores forwarded at that time, what use would there be for maintaining so large an establishment for a depdt?— There was no such establishment at Penetanguishone when I was in Canada, and I see no necessity for maintaining so large a one permanently there, us I before stated. 728. I think you stated in your evidence that you were commander-in-chief of Nova Scotia as well as Canada?— As commander of the forces, I comuiandcd in both provinces. 729. Were you in tiie habit of passing any time in Nova Scotia?— I adminis- tered the government of Nova Scotia for eight years. 730. It appears, according to this Return, that the force in Nov., Scotia and its dependencies, exclusive of Newfoundland, amounts to 2,036 men, rank and file: IS It your opinion, from your long acquaintance with that colony and its depend- encies that that number of troops is absolutely necessary to be kept up there ?— It is absolutely necessary, in my opinion, to have a respectable force of re^rulur troops in that part ot North America. New Brunswick is in the Nova Scotia com- mand ; and in the present unsettled state of the boundary question, I consider the number ot troops now there indispensably necessary. 731- Having reference to tiie United States alone?— Yes 732. Is there any nilitia force in Nova Scotia :— There is, and it is on a better footing than the mihtia of Canada; they have three days training in the year, and some ot the regiments make a good appearance. 733- Uo you speak generally, or of any particular district?— Throughout the cTnadr " """ '"'''"^ ^"'"*'*' '^ "''"" ^ '""'''' ^'^"'■' ^""''"« "'"» '" 734- Is it your opinion that the militia could and ought to be made more effective in Nova Scotia ^-^I think it exceedingly desirable, situated as our North American colonies are, in the immediate vicinity of the United States, that a certain portion ot the mihtia in each province should be well trained to arms, and always kept in a state ot etiieiency. •' "^ 73.5. f>o you iliink if the militia of Nova Scotia and its dependencies were ren- dered efiective, still it ,»„uld be necessary to keep up the amount of regular Britisn troops to the extent of 2,o:j(i men ?-^-Not to that extent; but a certain portion of egular troops would nevertheless be necessary, in my opinion, to support the mihtia ; and u.uler existing circumstances, I think the number of troops now there indispensably necessary CJreat Britain has always afforded her North American colonies, even in time of peace, a certain numher of troops for their protection ; and were they to be with.lrawn, or any considerable portion of them, I fear it would have (as I beJore stated) a very bad moral etlect, and tend to weaken the attachment 01 the colonists to the mother country. Halifax is an important naval station, wall a dock-yard and arsenal ; the only one indce.i which we have on the coast of America; and to preserve it is an object of great national importance, in my humble opinion. •' 73<' •Sup[)osing the case of a contem|)late(i rupture between this country and JKuu'vwn, •.■.•on ii of 'j, 700/. in the r xpeiuliture of the eonnnand. At the close of the year 1833 the allowance of barrel bulk ceased ihrtuighout the com- mand, except al IVnelanguislnne, makiiitr an economy of 500/. annually. \arious changes, comprising tnany re>e of the year iHjp, when a sum of i0,00o/. annually was assigned for this service liy a Minnie of the Right honourable the Lords ('oinmi.-.sioners of His Majesty's 'I'reasury. The share of tSiis apjjropriation in the Upper province was found al (Irst instillieient, aiul a large excess oceiiried ; but by the adofition of a suti8e<|uent system, the expenditure Irom the military chest in the Upper province will '>= liiiiiied •;: i,5,;(fii.)/., ;;;iu iii ih^ Lir.ver province to 4,f,oo/. ; making an aaiiuai reduction of 2'homas Archtr, K8(|. 14 July 1835. be! i.',l'ji)/., coiiimeiieiiii; liam the 1st Api As regards the Commissariat Department, the eKlaliiishmenl amounted to4Jonicers on my arrival on this eominaiid, iinineiliately on which the service of the Kideaii eanal eoin- mcnriil, and a-^ that wurk pii'Ci eded I wa- ihmiim led to detach four ollieers to be stationeil 0. 1 I. a 4 along 1 I f t Thomm Archer, Esq, 14 July l8a5- '! 56 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE niong flic line of tlip works in operation ; hut notwithstanding this deirond, nnd ti.e nl.oli- rilTor^f'.'!!' r''T' ^^f"^ ty"ill employ, (m,rofticm),aml noiwid.nandi r the addition of these brnnchea „f the service, nnd that of those previonsly detailed, to « v own, I have been able to reduce, gradually, n.y establishment to 32 officers. ^ These reductions were of course gradual, effected with proper anticipation, and by con- densing the business to be performed. How far it may be extended, o if anV extcnsic^n is .0 bo expected I cannot immediately offer an opinion; but I may reasonably Z ,0 what has been done as a pledge and a guarantee of my constant attention to my instruc- tions on this important point. ^ ""■u»- It is right, however, that I should state to you, for his Lordship's information, that I do not in J"*tice to the service, recommend any further immediate reduction; what remains o be done on thi» poit.t must be prepared and adopted with caution. The experience of he Inst two epidemics in the years .832 and 1834, j.ariicularly the fbrraer, in the midst of Inch were made the payments and identification of* ,,688 commuted pensioners, amount '"!,'<" 40,5.'->i/. sterling, will ,„akc 11 sufficiently onerous on the department, with their present strength, to meet the return of this fearful disorder. The service of the quarantine e tabi ishinent, the various demands ,•„ ,l,e department under such circumstances, a'nd a sense of piudence ai.d efficiency on my own part, deter me from any suggestion thttt miKht be visited on the duties to he performed. ^* ■• i ■" inifeiii oe Indeed it is incunib<.nt on me to acknowle.lRC and to represent the prompt sacrifice and . landonment of al private considerations or .Tomestic safety which was manifested in the midst of he general panic by the ofheers of the .lepartinent. and their unremitting attention and discl.nrge of ihe public business, and 1 lament the dilhculty of conveying a proper sense of this ^eal, whicf, is so uuuii appreciated in the moment of its exertion.^ I solicit ti.e high influence and authority of his Lordship to strengthen an.l confirm this representation. Ilikewise offer to his Lordship's consideration the many duties which devolve on tl>e de- partment, and which do not appear in the accounts. The distributions to the Indians at the various posts scattered throughout the country, are ma.le under the personal superintend- ence of an officer. The pensioners settled in distant parts, unable from age, sickness or poverty, to appear, are to be visited and identified in the neighbourhoods of Bylown, of T.ron.o and Montreal, nt Drummondville and elsewhere ; a duty essential to the dete.ti "n "t rrand. Ihe ordnance c.mlracts and i)urchases. though very properly so, made l.v the commissarint. as a means of further publicity to the tVansactions and security ,0 the public. All these are employments which must be considered in the strength of the de- partment, and whicli I must be prepared to meet. ^ The previous explanations will lay before the Commander of the Forces the tanaible rtttails o( the reductions, as they stand in priiof in tbo public accounts ; but others, « hicl. re- late lo the reduction ol price or the conduct of business, bv a judicious management of tl„. slate of the market, are not so readily brought to view or so capable of proof, ihoUL'b mucli more important in the aggregate. It is , Their pay is •24t>/. each ?— Yes, that includes the allowances. 770. What is the dilference between that and the pay of a clerk?— The pay of a clerk would fie accordinjr to his deserts and fitness for his employment, at diffe- rent rates. ' •' ' 77 "• 'I'hecominissary-freneral, Routh, is placed at the head of the department at {^ij!-.ie.-; arc liis uutie; toniitied to titc 98^ rank nnJ flic al Quebec, or do tiiey extend to the whole province ? -They extend to the whole province ; the whole Jf tiie tnanagement, us tar as tlie cominissariat duties are concerned, is vested in ( lom- inissa.y-geticial Routh. 1 should add, tliut with regaid to the other oIKcers who arc MMITTEE ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. ,57 md, nnd the nboli- itl noiwidistanding ily deuiiled, 10 my cers. Blion, and by con- if any extension is -ensonably refer tu ion to my instruc- inntion, that I do ion ; what remains rhe experience of ler, in ihe midst of Misioners, amount- rtinent, with iheir of the quarantine lances, and n sense on th!\t might be r>inpt sacrifice and manifested in the emitting attention onvcying a proper •tion. I solicit the lis represeniatiun. levolve nn tl>e de- the Indians at the lonal superintend- age, sicly the security to the engih of liie de~ rces the tangible others, vihicli re- iiiiiigement of the >i)f, ihounh much the advantage of md though I feel •collect that it is iidencc wlih the 1 from their sub- le servant, «. J. Routh. •e, No. 8, to be I lliere appears ^neriil, und 1 1 iclors, issuers, te in wimt uay atiotis and tiiu ay in cxplaiia- iher of orticeis, ts, and if tjioy ill tlic ca{>acity ? — Tile pay of tncnt, at dillc- de|)artrncnt at c, or do they ; the wliule oY ested ill Com- ' olHcers wlio arc ^: are employed at Quebec, their duties should not be considered as confined to the accounts at Quebec, but as extendinj; to the accounts of the provisions and iiioney, and to every account and transaction connected with the commissariat duties, which are spread over the whole province. 772. Do you consider that the payment of i.fioo detached pensioners requires the payments to be made tjuartcrly, as in England and Ireland ? — The parties of course must be in want of nmiicy ; and in proportion aa the numl^er of the paymtuta is inulti|)!ied, it gives additional trouble to the persons who make the payments. 773. Must they not come into the commissariat office, and there be examined before the payment is made, mucli in the same way as they are by the (/heisea Board ; and do not these commissariat officers in fact perform, as to these 1,600 men, the duties which the Chelsea Board department does as to the pensioners on them : — Precisely so. 774. Is not tiie labour and trouble of paying these 1,600 pensioners greatly in- creased in consequence of the state of the country, where cultivation is very much scattered ; where there arc small villages instead of being towns ; and where there are no excise officers, as in England, for the payment of these pensioners? — The payment of these pensioners is productive of a great deal of labour, more than can be well imagined, and it has been the subject of repeated representation and com- plaint. 775. Are not the difficulties increased, because in the scattered villages in Canada there are no excise officers ? — Yes ; they are all paid by the commissariat. 77C. You are aware that the facility of paying pensioners in England and Ire- land, is greatly aided by liaving excise officers who can pay the money ? — Yes. 777. Having no such aid in Canada, do you not imagine that the labour and trouble of the commissariat is greatly increased ? — Very much. 778. With regard to these men, is it not a very important point that their identity should be ascertained to prevent fraud, by occasional visits, or that the men should come themselves to the commissary, or that the commissariat officer should see them, as at Bytown or Toronto, or any other post at which these people are assembled for tlie pur[)ose of being paid ? — I should conceive it is absolutely necessary that the identity of these persons should be satisfactorily established, to prevent fraud. 771). Are you aware whether any instructions are given for the purpose of assisting in detecting frauds, by making it the interest of any person on the spot to report immediately to the commissary, the fact of the death of a pensioner? — I am not aware of lliat. The commissary-general reports to the Treasury, from time to time, the decease of pensioners ; but I do not know that any induce- ment is held out with a view to obtaining early information of the casualties that occur. 780. In a new country like Canada, where the pensioners are very mucli scat- tered, and where men not being pensioners can for a small trifle procure the papers of a deceased man, upon which the claims to the pension would rest, are not, under .such circumstances, tlie facilities of fraud greatly augmented as compared with Englanil ?-— Certainly ; and therefore great care is necessary in making the pay- ments. I have reason to believe that the pensioners liave derived great benefit from receiving their pensions direct from the hands of the officers of the commis- sariat. 78 1. Then taking all these circumstances together, are you of opinion that the payment of i,tioo pensioners entails upon the commissariat a large proportion of labour?— Decidedly so. 782. Should you tiiink that in Canada, where the winter sets in so severely, that posts such as (Quebec, Isle aux Noix, Fort V.x'w., or any such posts, that it would be possible to do away with the commissariat, and provision t!ie men as in England and Ireland, merely trusting to the quartermaster of the regiment? — I conceive that the troops could not be supplied with provisions by tiie quartermasters so well or so economically as by the commissariat department, and tliat the regular supjily and comfort of the soldier woukl be exposed to great risk, especially in every case of movement. Independently of this serious ohjettion, there must still be a commissariat establishment, for the iierformance of other duties than merely that of provisioning the troops ; for instance, the commissariat is the 0.11. 1 medium Thomat Archer, Esq. 1 4 July 1835. il Thomas Archtr, Eiq. 14 July 1835. 58 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE IIEFOIIE SELECT COMMITTEE mciliurii by wliich ull the money necessary for military ami naval expenditure is provided ; tiie commissariat officer, or some other in his place, must mai bo made by the quartermaster. This inconvenience would be considerably aggravated in the freijuent removals to which the military service is liable, whilst on the other hand, the arrangements of the connnissariat are at once available for the wants of any military force that may come within the sphere of his operations. 753. And from your knowledge of the opinion of a man of Commissary-general Routh's character, and the report which be has made, which you have read, ilo you think that that department in Canada has been nearly reduced to what you probably might expect, according to tlie present system wliich exists? — I should concm- in the opinion of Conunissary-gencral Routh ; his character as an able otiicer stands very high. 754. Be so good as to state, from the book you have before you, the compara- tive number of officers in Nova Scotia, including St. John's ; it is in page 54? — There are 1 o officers in the whole. "S.v Are you aware that the distance from Quebec to Port Amhcrstburg, in one line, is about i,,'i()i) miles, and the distance of Penetauguishine is probably rather more ? — I am not aware of the actual distance of these posts from Quebec. 78(5. Assuming the distance to be somewhere about that, do you not consider such a line of country, in a great degree, many parts of it uncultivated, with jjosts and troops scattered along the banks of the river and lakes, shut up for many months in winter by the severity of it, where provisions are necessarily obliged to be taken in for the troojjs for a length of time ; the distance I have mentioned, the scattered nature of the troops, and the nature of the country, must materially add to the necessity of having a large body of these officers for the performance of their duties, as relates to tlie troo|)s ? — I think so, certainly. 787. Vou are attached to the commissariat department ? — Yes. 788. From your general knowledge, do you not consider such facts as necessarily leading to the necessity of having a large number of conmiissariat officers? — Most assuredly. 789. Have tiiey not the raising of all the money in the colonies which is ref|uired for the public service ? — Yes. 7()o. Is it not tlie |)ractice, where there are commissaries detached, that the money-chest is under u double lock? — WluMcvcr tiiere is a military chest, it i^ under a double lock. 791. Now supposing there to be but one commissariat officer at a detached station, how is the system of tlouijle lock then carried mto execution ; the system that one officer siiould have otu; key, and another another, and that no money should be taken out and no money put in without the knowledge of botii ; where there is but one officer how is that carried on? — Where there is but one officer there would be but a comparatively trifling sum ; he would not have in his hands such a considerable siun of money as to reniler such a precaution necessary ; many of his payments might be made, probably, by drafts on the principal at Quebec, and which are |)aid at the Hank. 71).'. Have not the commissariat a consiilerable degree of extra duty thrown upon them, by the payment of |)ensioners and emigrants, who went from this country to be settlers in that country? — The commissariat iiave had a considerable and viry trouliksonie duty thrown upon them, by the payment of a eommutatioii to jieusioners who went to Canatia, trom time to time, with a view of ijecoming settlers in the colony. There were accounts of commutation to settle and balances to |)ay to nearly 1,700 men of this description; these are (piite distinct from tliu great nunil>er of jieri-ioners who reinaiii iij)oii the {'helsca list, and wlio are atill connnissariat. ''.V '9.3. How are the rations provided ui public contract: es, by pulilic Contract. )|ter am I I. ower anada ; is 1 t by r94. Are )MMITTEE i\ expenditure is must niiike curi- uul II varirjty of ij» a great deal of )ops. It is to bo egiuicnt, who is »f a regiment arc il l)e exposed to auf^einents t(> ho jrably agf^ravutcd lilst on the other for the wants of [omissary-general n have read, do ced to wliut you xists ? — I should rioter us an ahlc ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. jy 794. Are those contracts half-yearly, or in what way arc they ? — They are usually made annually. 7()/). Are the rations delivered by the contractor to the troops direct, and their rccei|)t returned, or arc they delivered to the commissariat officers at the respective stations r — They arc delivered by the contractor. 796. Are you aware whether any dcp6ts of any kind of provision arc kept in any |)art of upper or Lower Canada, and where? — There arc de{iuts at various places, both in Upper and in Lower Canada, at Quebec, Montreal, Isle aux Noix, Bytown, Kingstown, Toronto, Fort George, IVnctanguishine and Amherstburg. 7y7' VVhat have been the particular kinds of stores, and the quantities, at any given time ?— Flour, biscuit, salt meat (and formerly runi), wood, coals, candles, oil and cotton for light. The quantities have fluctuated of course, according to the demands of the service, I will furnish the Committee with a statement of the riuaiitities in the stores, at several periods, within the last five years. At Toronto, Kingston and Amherstburg, there are also stores of Indian presents. [The same was delivered hi, as follows ;] Thuniat Archer, Enq. 14 July 1835. m, the compara- is in page ,54 ? — hcrstburg, iu one > probably rather u tiucl)ec. yon not consider ^ated, with posts lut up for many sariiy obliged to p mentioned, the it materially add performance of :ts as necessarily officers? — Most )loiiies which is ached, that the :hcst, it is under :r at a detaclied ion ; tiie system i that no money of botli ; wlierc s but one otlicer ive ill his hands ecessary ; many .•ipal at Quebec, ra duty thrown went trom this (1 a considerable a commutation ;w of Ijecomingr tie and balances istinct from the iiu iviiu are atiu 0.) 1 I 2 Statement Mi t>0 MINUTES or EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE o •3 a U S i 3 t/2 > o OS 2 ^ •i'"n"fi Jl 2 'jeSiui Y J irt - >♦ ' ♦on 1^ ^ff a-fe ¥? 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O) -f 1^ to s - 1-5 25^ ft iflXl r;; « .0 U5 ♦ 00 :S « - m « « CI ^ .>« 1 I 1 1 1 1 1 1 I • H-^ ,. 1- a -2 - to 1 ''^ ^ '^ to" ^ -#^**^-.Wi« ' • Hw*« ^i-p» 0^ .-^1 k-toei- -aoOO« - « - « ** 1 "^ 1 1 s ... to >^ CI M 1^00 00 m •5 n t^tc to - 00 «^ e« •♦ to. -x «o •• - CI »" 1 1 >«■ i -r. -«o 5 " n = 1 i- 00 > 1 1 1 1 i 1 1 1 ■ 1 -!f:;£«gqs 2?«£«*-^ r:2 >*c g « '-; *t- ^ CS 00 CI t-^*^ w -- n 3 b: Soo-oooo*..oio-o J.CJCl-l;l';O)'O0..ci_>Oc5co CI cc r* '-'; M n '* •? 'n t^ !■• r~ CI ■+ n - O) n . (O ' ' ' ' (O r^ t' :S r, 1 1 1 1 1 t 1 1 1 1 ' ' ' ' >, ul 5 1 1 1 1 1 ■^ t 1 1 1 1 CO j^ i?i »/>'.D r^ « »o w5 *♦• I I I I I I • I I I I I I I I I - 00 09 O CO I I I t I I I til lilt » •;< O 00 c* i^ Ui < a. 1= = i i^ > ij r« 5 S S •3 sa ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. bi 00 ^ I 00 cir' ^ 2:;-,-;sr.':;n!;:;:<".---^'v: « t-CT C ■♦-.00 *'^"»»- I 2 J :« , 1 I I > > ' • ' ' ' ■2 9. i I I I I ■ ■ if- 2 J -t I ( I t < • I < ' ' ' I I i! 9 ■3 I ^tO QQO ''"55? 5 CD U3 ec t~* 5g) ( I I xi • I r- ' • 00 ■^ n o • . 3 QD O 00 ^ *■ ^ 00 Ot .f) o - ■ N CI o to" I I « I II' o n 00 ( :'<:V---:= M - O • - o 3) ♦to r- r 300 -< - <-j ? y ;o --A R 8 ■• 3 Ig^?. 1 a» 1 S 1 ♦ In .! (.2 i s 3 up 'o a < J 5 io«5)r^r-S "5,5? 4 cr 00 « * "5 'f^ 1 ••« ■" V a i^ «-< c o 1 Il 111(1111 to u * r-l-i -« .s ^ " -* 1 1 ^ •^ 1 I 1 1 1 I 1 1 n ■3 s • o o 1 1 2 oo CO ■X5 «.e 1 1 1 > > ( ) • -•o a 3 a _ a 3 1 1 *> ■S i •^ 1 wm '^ a flQ 8 a CI 1 Vi I I* rt fO ^ ^ •^ t ^ 5 t I 1 ^ • ^^ -t (4 J ^ m §• * . , . '' s y o O g , QQ 1 1 1 1 \ \ ■^ ^ '^ 0> O "* '■ .d 'i ^ ■* O I^'O *^> c 9 5 r-- ei o M 1 1 1 1 1 -- •• ih 3 c ci - CO m •* 1 ' • ooo 0* s J O MX et ^ -* ^ w i oo to q,oo_ • • ' cjoo_ c< c O t^ c< - •" t^ o .1 « a « ... u. — 1 ■o . 1 i 1 • I . a ■ • 1 § . a < EC < H sauj-^scs.iig) s b 3 J^^iodSui^-^ ^ (A o O duii^dou 0) < o •< d < u < o • C w -A O 3 5 :i r; rf ..'^^ i^M ^ Thomas Archer, Esq. fru 62 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMiMITTEE 71)8. Uiis any. proposal been made to pay these pensioners through any of the constituted clergymen of the districts where they are?— I believe I may trust to 14 Julv iS'^^ '"^ memory to say, that no report to that eflect has been received at the Treasurv - 799. Are any stores of any kind sent out .roni England now, for the use of the army, in either of the Canudas? — Not any provisions. ^00. Arc there any kinds of stores that have l)cen supplied by the commanding otticcrs of rej^iments ?— Not that I am aware of. " «oi. If there are any other duties which that department has to perform besides the supplying of the troops with money and with provisions, and the nayiu" of the pensioners, please to state them ?-The commissariat provide monevno't only tor the troops, inciudm.' the ordnance, but also for the naval expenditure; and they receive and account for all monies intended for remittance to i)ublic depart ■ ments at home. They have to provide the whole of the transport required, either for the removal of the troops and their baggage, itc, or for the removal of stores, by land or by water, fhcy have to provide, by contract or otherwise, all matp- rials required for public works, and to contract for labour when necessary • to provide also, by contract or purchase, all other articles required for the troops or or the or. inance, or for casual services. They have to pay, in detail, all persons holduig stall appointments ; to pay, in detail, half-pay, military pensions, widows' pensions and compassionate allowances, to all persons in Canada entitled to anv of these allowances, fhcy have to pay, in detail, lodging-money, fuel-money, and all extra and contingent allowances, and expenses of every description, under the warrant ot the general commanding. 802. Do you uctribute the large proportion of the commissariat to the troops at Canatia, as compared with the commissariat in Nova Scotia, to the "real extent of extra duly required from the commissariat in Canada to that of the commissariat in .Nova bcotia ?— To both causes; the great dispersion of the troops, and the extra duty ot the commissariat in Canada. 8uj. Does that exist to the same extent in Nova Scotia as in Canada "-—Cer- tainly not. S04. Do the pensioners exist to the same extent in Nova Scotia as in Canada*— Certainly not ; there arc pensioners in Nova Scotia, but nothinir like to the same extent as in the Canadas. 80,5. If you look at page 46, by the Return it will appear there are 40 rank and nle at Amherstburg ? — Y'es. Sof) It appears by the Return, that there being 41) rank and file at Amhrrn- burg, that there is a commissariat establishment of two dej)uty-assistant commis- saries-general, two issuers and one labourer, at the expense of 726/. a year pay - and allowances; can you state why there is so larue a commissariat statl' tbr .0 small a detachment ot troops?— At Amherstburg there is a large store of hulian prcsent^_ ; there is also a store of flour and salt meat. Considerable issues arc made to th.' rnlians, and there are a great number of pensioners located in that immediate neij:nbourh()od. 807. Look at Penetanguishinc ; there there arc only 40 rank and file, and vou will sec that the commissariat consists of the same, witii the dilHrence of one issuer .-—At that station, I believe, there is a bateau establishment, formed for the conveyance ol provisions, military stores, tScc. SoS. What docs that consist oY?— IJoats and barges for transport, and men for the management ol them. 8u.). State to tlic Committee what is the amount of the bateau establishment in the dillerent Canadas; where stationed, and what tlicy have to do=— I do not know what is at present the actual tstablisbment. On icftTring again to the letter trom Commissary.g( neral Routli, whicii 1 have read to the Committee, it appears thiit the bateau cstabh.siiment has been removed to Montreal, where seven bateaux an« SIX men are sufficient for the service; at present only one officer is emiilovcd at I'enctangnishinc. 810. In tlie Return there aiipeais to be 271; rank and (ile, artillerv, engineers ami veterans, at NeHloundland ; and an establi^liment of an assistant commissary- geiifrul, two deputy-assistant commissaries-general, one issuer, and one conductor - —I would beg to refer to the remark in t!i<' \»^i vaUwv; with resjHx't to one of l.'u- d.'puty-assislant commissaries-general, by which it appears he ceased on the rih October l8;J;3, 81 1. If tJKMe two arc able to keep the accounts in the whole of Newfoundland lor .>7(. rank and tile, how is it that so large a statf is kept in those parts of Canada ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 63 Canada where detachments from only 1 o to ,50 men exist ? — The duties of the commissariat in Canada arc materially ditierent from their duties in Newfoundland ; their duties in the latter place are concentrated. The same descri|)tion of accounts are neces.sary for a detachment of ."jo men as are necessary for a regiment of 800, ])rovi(io(i the regiment of Sno is at one post; but if the regiment uf 800 is scattered over dift'ercnt parts of the country, then that would impose additional labour u])on the commissariat, because each detacliment would require the same description of accounts to be rendered in duplicate, and the same dcscri|)tion of vouchers. 812. The accounts arc tabular, are they not? — A great many are in forms. 813. Would not a small number occasion less trouble in adding uj) and in writing, which is the great laboui of the commissary ? — There would he very little ditference in the trouble, whether a detachment consisted of '2,5 or of ,50 men. There are 20 or more different forms for the vouchers in cash accounts ; and more numerous vouchers are necessary in furnishing accounts for the troops, where they are dispersed in three or four diflerent parts, than here would be if the same number were concentrated. 814. Are all these accounts audited at Quebec or Nova Scotia? — The commis- sary-general, who superintends the dei)artment, is responsible for all the accounts in the Canadas ; consequently the accounts of the sub- commissaries dispersed throughout the whole of Upper and Lower Canada are transmitted to his office, and they are there examined and iiide u() ; and he transmits them home to the Treasury, to be audited by tlie Connnissioners for Auditing the Public Accounts. Si,';. ^V'hcre the troops are supplied by contract, do you mean to say there are ■20 different forms of account? — There are not only the accounts between the eon- tractors and the commissariat, but the accounts of the ditfcrent detachments, all the detachments furnishing differerit returns. 8i(). Do you mean that the returns are given by each detachment in a difierent form? — No, one form will apply to all the detachments. Si 7. Are there 20 forms from one detachment, one from each detachment, and there may be 20 detachments from the regiment? — Speaking of rations of provi- sions, only one form of return is necessary for each regiment or eacli detachment. The different branches of tiie staff each render a separate return. Witli respect to cash accounts, although there arc 20 or more forms of account, it is very likely that one detachment may nut give occasion for the use of more than three or four forms ; and it may, on the other side, ha[)pen that the duties relative to the detachment may rciiuire many of the forms to be in use, looking at the (lescrij)tion of service-, the nature of the payments, and the nature of the issues tfiat may be made. The cash accounts are classed under different heads, under diflerent letters ; one descrip- tion of payment under letter A, another under B, and so on. The printeil state- ment whicli I hand to the Committee will give an idea of the various vouchers that are re(juisite in the pecuniary transactions of the commissariat. [The same was read, as follows.] STATEMENT referred to in Circular, No. 84. Dkiut Side ok the Aicount CtRUSNT. inclusive. EXl'LANATXON. MARKS. A Extraordinaries from A. to II. ■nri.Es. Miscellaneous Purcl; Transjioit i*ay of Extra StaH", Ike. Thomas Archer, Esq. 14 July 1835. Supplies for Rations of Provisions and"! To include provisions, spirits, wine, forage, Forage .... -J Sic. 1$. Fuel and Light .... To include fuel, candles, oil, cotton-wick, &c. ^Tho articles included under these two heads tm- purchased, tutored, and issued by the Coniiuissariut ilop:irlnu'nt.J - 'I'o includo all payments for stores, implc- niints, ^r. of whatever description, not in. chilled under the two preceding heads, or under letter G, nor paid for by drafts from the ofticers of the Drdance department, letter I. - To include freight, hghterage. truckage, live. - To include the pay of all persons not tliarge- able upon the Ordinaries, or under letters O. I. and!,. irf!»ge, 0.11. M F. Mili tary 64 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Tho.nna Archer, MARKS. TITLES. Esq. F. Military Allowances - 14 July 1835. G. Special Services H. Coi tinsencies - I. Ordnance Department K. Ordinaries 1,. Pav ot Commissariat Officers M. Advances to Departments N. Consignments of .Specie. O. .... E.XPLANATION. To include lodging-money and all other allowances, e.\cept pay and such military allowances as may be comprised under letters I. and K. To include only such services as are peculiar to particular stations, such as in Canada : Indian and Settlers' departments. West Indies, Sec. : Pensions of Black sol- diers. Expenditure for army vessels. Subsistence of 3d West India regiment, Sec. Sec. To include rent, travelling expenses, postage, hospital expenditure, and, generally, all pay- ments chargeable upon the Extraordinaries not included in the foregoing articles. To include Imprests for payments under 5/. Drafts for payments above ,5/. ; viz. For pay and allowances of the department. Pay of the Royal Artillery. Buiidini; materials. Barrack, and other military stores not included in B. or C. Labour. Buildings erected, or repairs performed under contract. Military working parties. Including Regimental subsistence and half-yearly ailouances. Staff p,iv. Half pay. Chelsea pensions. fJrcoiuvich pensions. Widows' pensions. Compassionate list. Other retired allowances not borne upon the Extraordinaries. To include only commissioned officers, and persons acting and receiving pay as such ; storekeepers, issuers, and others employed in the Conunissariat department, being included under letter I". The same distinction to be made w itli respect to the Account Branch when paid, as at Malta, Sec. by pay list, and not by imprest: in that case the account current will show the amount of pay of the Commissariat officers under letter L, thus : Store branch - Aeciiunt branch - £. To mchute ;dl advances repayable in England, exieiil tliosi' to the Ordnance tiepartinent, wlucli will be included under letter 1. - To be left open for any special disbursements (such as iiaynieiits on account of Colonial governments. See) as may not be chargeable to the lAtraoriiinaries. Cnr.DiT SiDK. Bills drawn upon the To be accompanied by separate statements of Bi'ls ncLiolialed. and of bills drawn at j)ai on aerount of supplies, or otherwise. • Issued to Staff, Ordnance, and other dejiart- nients. \\. Proceeds ol Sale^ . - . . By the officers nf the Commissariat deparl- ment. Js. Ditto By the officers of the Ordnance de[.artinent. T. Receipts P. Proceeds of Treasurv. Q. Stoj)paL'es for Rations ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. &URK:<. TITLES. KXPLANATION. uy stores not V. W. Consignments of Specie. Miscellaneous Receipts Receipts for Services repayable in England, viz. Rej^iinental Surplusses. Effects of deceased officers and soldiers. Fees on commissions. Custom-house revenue. Post-otKce ditto. Greenwich Hospital ditto, &c. &c. - To include all receipts, of whatever descrip- tion, not comprised under the preceding heads. [N. i?.— Any of the forea,oing heads which may be inapplicable to the service of particular stations, may be left out altogether in the Accounts Current of the Commissariat Officers serving on such stations; but the Receipts and Expenditure, under the heads herein specified, should, in every case, be brought to account under the same marks that are annexed to them in this statement.] 818. From your acquaintance with the accounts, do you consider all those are necessary where provisions are supplied by contract, or do you not think it possible to simplify the accounts so as to lessen the labour? — I will explain to the Com- mittee the course of proceeding in supplying the troops with provisions under a contract, when deliveries are made by a contractor. The issues of fresh provi- sions, bread and meat, are usually made daily, upon cliecks given bv the commis- sary upon the contractor; these checks are founded upon returns furnished by each regiment or detachment, specifying the number of officers, classed in their respec- tive ranks ; the number of non-commissioned officers and men, and women and children. These returns, which are rendered in duplicate, are examined by the commissary, and require particular care, on his part, to prevent over-issues or errors, and the contractor has nothing to do but to issue upon the orders of the commissariat. In fact, the contractor performs that part of the business which is performed by the storekeepers or Issuers of the commissariat when there is no con- tractor ; all the accounts and responsibility of these transactions depending still ujjon tlie commissariat. 819. Are the vouchers sent in from the detachment to the head commissary ; are the returns from the whole regiment sent home, or does he keep them, and send an account made out from them ? — He sends home the accounts of the sub- connnissaries, after they have been examined in his oun office at head-quarters, under his immediate superintendence. These require a more minute and oarticidar examination, since the abolition of the se[)arate department of accounts, which for- merly examined the connnissariat accounts upon the spot. 820. At what period are the accounts audited now ? — They are audited now more regularly than in former times ; they are passed through tlie Audit-office with as much disrmtcli as is consistent with a careful examination. ^21. The commissaries' accounts of 183J, when were they audited? — I am no pre()areil to say vvhetlicr the accounts of 1 S33 have been audited or not. 8:^2. Will you ascertain when the accounts of the years 1S3J: and 1833, for the colonies vi Upper and Lower Canada, as well as Australia, were received, and when they were audited? — In Australia there is still a separate office under a connnissary of accounts, uhose business it is to examine all the commissariat accounts of tiiat colony ; there is, conseciuenlly, some ilelay in tlieir cominji to England. — [Vide Appendix.] 823. It has been stated to the Couunittee that there were iireat arrears, two or three years ago, in tiie conmiissaries' accounts in New South Wales ; that there were several tons of accounts which had not been audited ; w hat has been done with those accounts? — Tiiey are not yet passed through any examination, but they are ia the hands of an officer employed for the purpose. 8^4. Is he employed there or here? — Tliere. 825. Was there an account branch there at the time ? — There was. Sati. Was the governor aware those arrears were going on ? — Probably not w hile the arrears were aecnnndating. 827. Had there not been a want of annual accounts from that colony, and were they not able to ascertain here the arrear.s, before it iiad amounted to so large an extent? — lean hardly explain at this moment how the arrears were suffiered to accumulate on the spot. When the arrears were first creeping on lliem.the wiiole business of the commissariat in New South Wales was exceedingly heavy ; tliev were employed on various descriptions of colonial matters. 0.1 i. K 82S. Tnder Thomas Archer, Esq. 14 July 1835, 66 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Thomas Archer, 8:28. Under whose orders did they act in these diflcrent mutters? — They were Esq. required by the governor for the time being to pert'orm certain duties. " 8jo. General Diuling? — Yes, and his predecessors. 14 July 1835. 8;p. Are you aware thut (iencral Darling, in his evidence, states that he knew nothing of the details anil proceedings of the connnissariat department? — I am not aware that any such question or answer has been "ivon. S31. Do yon consider liiat the governor had more than the general superin- tendence of all the olheers in the colony, or that he was actually responsible for the details of this department?— lie was not responsible for the details, he was respon- sible for the directions he gave for the pxeeution. of certain orders. 832, M'ho was responsil)le for the details? — The parties to whom he gave those directions. 833. Does not Mr. Laiiilcy, the head of the department, act under and receive the orders of the Treasury here?— Ves, but he is also bound to obey the orders of tlie governor on the spot; the goveniorof course taking care that he does not order anything that he is not able to Justify, in case such orders may be contrary to tlie instructions which the comniissary has received from tlie Treasury Board. " ^^ 834. Does no direct connnunication take place between Mr. Laidley and the Treasiny iicre i — Continually. 835. Then the Treasury does exercise an independent control over Mr. Laidley? — Certainly. 83(i. Was that the case at tlie time tlie arrcar accumulated in New South Wales r — It has always been the case. 8j7' Do yon know whetiier the head of the commissariat makes returns of his establishment and proceedings regularly to the governor of Australia? — It is com- petent for the governor to call ujjon him to do so, if he tliinks (it. 83S. With wiioni does tlic expression of the propriety of the increase or decrease of the establishment rest?— Any increase of tlie eslablishiueut would not be sanc- tioned by the Treasury, except it had the approval of the governor. 830. T(j what extent has the governor of Nova Scotia a jurisdiction over that department?- — The Treasury generally decline to sanction any increase of expense proposed by the conimi^^ariiil olheer, imless it has tiie sanction of the governor or tiie military authority (as the ca.-e may l)e) on tlie sjxn. It is quite competent for • the governor or officer comniamling, on his own authority, to call on the commis- sariat officer for any cNplanation that he may require upon any part of his duty, cither as r' gards the estabiisiiment or as regards tiie conduct of the business. 840. ' ,at means has the eoinmaiuling oHieer of knowing whether the accounts are brougl u|) or are in anear, or u lulher tiio est.iblislimcnt is giciter or less tiian the necessity of the service requires X — It is (•oini>etenl for him to institute a minute inquiry into the state of the departmenl. The Treasury Board have freeiuently called upon officers commanding and governors, not only in New South Wales but in other places, to revise the estabiisiiment and the duties of the commissariat, with a view to making such reductions as it mii;ht i)e susceptible of bearing. 841. Do you mean by that, that if there was an older to them they would do so ? — Yes. 842. My question is, in the ordiuaiy mode of coiuiucting the details of the colony, whether lie is coL'ui/.ant from year to year of the slate in which the accounts of tiiat deparlnient are?- I do not know tiiat he is expected to be cognizant as a matter of course, but lie can on his own authority call for information on the jioint. 843. Art! any of tiie accounts sent home through that oilicer .' — Not anv. S44. Do you mean to say that liic accounts are not transmitted through the governor? — (,'ertainly not. 845. T'lien tiie '^ovirnoi- nas no means of aseerlainiiig whether the returns have been sent by the commissariat officers .' — None, except by inquiry. 84(1. Is there a dire(;t correspondence between the commissariat oflker and the Treasury ? — Yes, constant communieation. S47. i think you have staled in your t'ormer eviiKn<-e, tliat tlieri' was a great reduction, from .51 to nj individuals, in New South Wales; was that subsequent to the arrcar of accounts being discovered ? — Yes, it was. 848. Seeing that the deiaehments have in New South Wales rather increased in numiicr than decreasfd, what was the reason that eiiabied ihem to iiiaKc liiat re- duction, when under a large I'stablishment such great arrears took place ?--Iiy the improved mode of conducting the busiiuss, and the introduction of a system ol con- tracting, which the colony was not formerly able to hear. The department was also l■elie^e(l of some of tiie duties which were more iiarlicularly colonial. S.}o. Had that iiiq"! veiuent been previously adopteil in other colonies? — The mode ^» * ON MILITARY ESTADLISIIMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 67 mode of doing business and the nature of the business in New South Wales were peculiar to that colony, and the improvements to which I allude do not apply to the service on other stations. 850. Are there other cohjuies susceptible of the same improvement which has been introduced in New South Wales? — No. 851. In proportion as the principle and practice of contracts gain grouiul, do you consider that the establishment might be reduced ? — I do not know whether the establishment is capable of reduction below tlie present number; still the Trea- sury expect that if any further reductions can be accomplished with due regard to the efficient i)erforniance of the duties, they will be carried into effect. 8.52. To what extent has the system of contracts been introduced for supplyiu" the convicts and the troops in New South Wales? — I believe it does not prevail ge- nerally yet ; it has l)een only upon a limited scale of jiroviding supplies by contract. 8.53. Have the contracts been offered and not accepted, or have they not been tried ? — They have been tried, and failed at the commenct-inent of the experiment. 854. Were those failures in 1830 and 1831'?— Yes, to the best of my recollec- tion, there were failures about that time in supplies of provisions. 8.)5. Are you aware whether orders have been issued by the Treasury, that the contract system should be tried on all occasions where it can be effected? — An order to that effect has been given, and I beg to refer the Committee to the copv of a Treasury letter addressed to Major-gen. Rourke, in December 1832, which I have already furnished for tiie information of the Committee. 856. Are you able to state whctlier the governor advertised f — It is the duty of the commissary to advertise. 8.57. Have you had sent liotne copies of the ailvcrtis(!inents made by him in the colony, and have they been general, or only as to particular places? — I believe only as to particular places and particular supi)lies. 8.58. Has the deputy commissary-general informed you whether he has tried contracts for all the supplies wanted, or for how many ? — He has reported the proceedings with regard to contracting for different supplies. I cannot speak from memory what are the particular places or occasions ; but in some instances the endeavour to obtain contracts has failed, and in others they have been succe.ssful. S.'jj). In your evidence before, you alluded to stores of provisions that had been prepared in consequence of some contracts in 1 830 having failed ; do you know to what extent those stores were formed? — I do not remember the extent of them. 8()0. Have you ^ny statement in your office of the several depots in New .South Wales? — Yes. 8tii. Ik so good as to state, when the stores were formed, what they consist of, and whether any establishment is requisite to superintend the stores exclusive of the duties required to coniluct the issues, supposing they are contracted for ! — As the system of contracting for supplies cxtcndcil, the depots in the colony were sariat. 862. Uo you send out stores in the way of provisions to New South Wales from here ? — No provisions, 8(13. Has the commissariat department anything to do with tiic construction of public buildings -—They ha»e eve rything to do \villi the construction of public buildings ; all the materials re(|uisite have been lurnislied by the commissariat hitherto, but very lately the Board of Ordnance have sent out some person to coniluct this particular branch of the service. 864. State to the (Committee the ditl'erent contracts which the commissariat has been direetcil to make in the performimce of anv woiks or labour lor the govern- ment.' -Tiity must liave received orders on tiiise points trom the local govern- uient ; U]) to the jiresent moment it has been the duty of the commissariat to fur- nish the materials re(|nireil for public huiklings, anil the counnissary would receive his tlirections for the furnishing of those works from the governor on the spot. Sti,';. Do you consider it necessary to have a commissary constantly at any post where there are 20 o ;u or 40 men, to serve them with provisions t-W lere mere are 40 or ",o men together at any station there must be some person employed to attend them, if they are .supplied from commissariat stores; but supposing them Thomas Archer, F...,. 14 July 1835, U.I I. to pi 1 h ' 1:1 ' i" ill 3 I Thomas Archer, 68 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE to l)e provisioned by a contractor, there might be other duties at the post reouirintr the services ol a commissariat officer. i '""b ,4 July ,83. ^?^- '" '^'"'' manner are the troops furnished in England with supplies ?-Bv i4juiy IPS,,. contracts now made by the Board of Ordnance. ^ 8(17 By that contract the contractor delivers at a particular place, according to the indent, the rations or supplies for a given number ? Yes. Sl.S. To whom (ices he deliver them ?— To the (luartermastcr of the regiment I conceive. "^ "■' S6y. What vouciicrs does the quartermaster furnish ?— The receipt of the quartermaster to whom the supplies are delivered. 870. Are those contracts all made by the Ordnance Board ?— Thev are. ^7'- Arc you aware that any difliculty would arise in New South Wales if a contract could be entered into for the supply of troops as in England, from the diminution ot a considerable number of the commis.sariat kept up 'principally for that purpose ?— 1 urn not able to give an answer to that (juestion ^7-^ If contracts were to be introduced generally into New South Wales and the cominissariat should in consequence be reduced in number, would not the details ot the receipts and distriliutions, hitherto performed by the commissariat, fall on the contractors.'— That would depend upon the conditions of the contract m the event of contracts being made, the contractor would be bound to furnish his accounts to the commissariat; and although the provisions might be supplied hrough the intervention of the contractor, the commissaries would be responsible tor the proper completion of the contracts and the delivery of the articles accord- ing to the stipulations. S73- Would not the contractors increase the price of their contracts in propor- tion as they took upon themselves additional duties, in consequence of the reduction ot the commissariat --No doubt of it ; I think it very likely that there wouhl be an increased ciiargc on the part of the contractor. If the contractor were com- pelled to deliver the articles at various places, of course his expenses would be increased, and his contract would be higher. 874. Uoyou nottliink that the increased price so put on by the contractors might equal, it not exceed, the amount saved by the reduction of the commis sariat ?— lliat is one ot tiie points I wish to draw the attention of the Committee o. A very small increase m the price of an article of much consumption or in tlie price ot the ration, would perhaps greatly counterbalance any saving that might be elle.-ted by reducing the strength of the commissariat. It should also be Dome 111 mind, that in diminishing the means of superintending and checkin.' the proceedings ot the contractors, the military, or the parties to receive the provis'ions would be very much at the mercy of tiie contractors, and a laxity would .now out ot tiiat business unless watched by the commissary. S75. Do you mean to say that that laxity in England has grown up where the provisions are delivered by the contractor to the person belonging to the rciment ? — 1 be circumstances ot the two countries are so wholly dillcreiit that we" cannot ajiplv tlie same reasoning to New South Wales as to England. 870 Do you not think all chance of laxity is completely put an end to by the general competition where contracts are otlered ?-I think the chance of laxity in England is vei y much diminished by the general competition ; but that does not apj)ly to New South Wales. S77. Are yc.ii able to tell uhether there is a corresponding increase in the price ot provisions supplied in New South Wales in conse.juence of the reduction of llie commissariat, in ionsc(|ueiice of the establishment of the contract system -— 1 cannot answer tiiat (juestioii. 878. Have you the means of ascertaining that ' -The increase of price miirht aiise Irom causes quite distinct Irom a reduction ol the coi issariat. 879. Do the troops receive their provisions from the contractors themselves or are they receded by the commissary and bv iiic: rommissarv's hand delivered '^~ n some instances they are .hiivered by "the contractor, and ia other instances delivered by the commissary. 880. Will yon give a statement shouing rhe ,>: alluded to, for wiiat years, and what is the progre.r establishment requisite lor briuirimr ij., tljov,. "r--. 1 that that arrear has not been proeWed with "veiy" .„.. ,, ...._....,„,„,„„ leavy arrear. J he establishment forme.l for the current business could not under- |ike the exauiiuatiou of it, and the officer directed to form the establishment for the arrear, was not able to form it in the colony. 881. State !'iint of arrears at the time Uiat has been made, and the ■ ' — ^! ran state froiii iiiemory Tiaterially ; it is an extremely MMITTEE e post requiring supplies ? — By ;e, according to f tile regiment, receipt of the icy are. >outii Wales if a;land, from tlie principally for iitli Wales, and would not the rnmissariat, fall f the contract. I to furnish his It be su|)plied he rcsponsihic rticles, accord - lets in propor- r the reduction here would be tor were com- ises would be le contractors the coniinis he Committee imption, or in y saving that ihould also be checking the he provisions, juld grow out up where the lie regiment ? It wo cannot end to by the (! of hixity in that does not c in the price reduction of :t system : — price might lemselvcs, or ilciivered ? — icr iiibtances at the time adr, and the oiii iiieuKiry in extremely 1 not under- ilisliment for S.Si. .Stale ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 69 881. State the circumstancf"i that led to that arrear, and what measures have been taken to bring that up, and also to prevent that arrear in future ? — The accounts which are in airear consist of the store and provision accounts of the ser- vice in New South Wales, for the years 1821) and 1830. A separate department for the puri>ose of examining the counts upon the spot, was first established at Sydney in the year 1824. An able oflicer of the coniujssariat was appointed by the Treasury Board, and he f inmenced this duty in May of that year, assisted by two junior oflicers. 1 ne business of supplying the wants of the convicts with provisions, clothing and materials, &c., in addition to various other dutis *, had rendered the accn'ints of the f inmissariat so voluminous, and the duty of tlie de- partment so intricate and troublesome, that it became absolutely necessary to frame various regulations, with a view to simplify the details of this branch ot the ser- vice, and to bring the plan of account into a more practicable shape. The com- missary of accounts was called upon to assist in the proceedings that were insti- tuted to cfiect this object, and ir.uch time was unavoidably devoted to it. His time and attention were, moreover, much engaged in the consideration ot other maturs of a . )lonial nature, for which the governor required his assistance, and the examination of the commissariat accounts thus unavoidably fell into arrear. This officer was eventually removed to a separate and distinct office, as auditor of the colonial revenue in Nt.v South Wales; and on his being succecdeil in the charne of the department ot accounts, in the beginning of the year 1829, his suc- cess!, found a considerable arrear of accounts in the office. He consequently represented to the ^;overnur the inatlequacy of the assistance which had been assigned to him for tlie performance of his duties, and he reiiresented the inconve- nieirce and delay that resulted from the frequent interrujitions to the regular busi- ness of the office, by withdrawing the officer at the head of this department to attend on boards of inciuiry, &c. In October following he again urged the want of assistance, and stated that much remained in arrear to be done iiefore the examina- tion of the current accounts could properly be proceeded with, and that accounts must accumulate for want of sullleient aid. The governor authorized his employing three temporary clerks, which the Treasury Board subsequently sanctioned, desiring however that this additional assistaiice should be reduced as soon as it could i)c dispensed with. This addition to the number did not give much strength to the establishment, because the temporary clerks engaged upon the spot could not render much useful aid in the business of the office, which retpiircd experienced hands. The establishment, tlieretbrc, in applying their attention to the arrear, and to tiie accounts of the current cash transactions, were obliged to leave the current store accounts to be examined at a more convenient opportunity. 1 hese store accounts for the years lS.'(» and 1830, thus formed an arrear, comprising several tons in weight," and it was deemed advisable to send them home (or exami- nation, the duplicate sets being retained upon the spot, subject to such orders as the Treasury Board mii;ht think "it necessary to give regarding them. The Treasury Boiiril, under the advice of the comptroller of army accounts, who strongly recom- aundcd that they should undergo a previous examination upon the spot, autho- rized the formation of an eslublishment at Sydney, for the especial purpose of examining th.. duplicate sets which had been retained at Sydney. 'Hie reports from Assistant ^ommissarv-gcneral Hayward, of the tith December 1S33, and the -2(1 March 1834 \(klivcrm'"V "5*1 "''''•* tliere would be an uncertainty in the sujipiies undertaken 36 by eon ractors m New South Waie.s r-My impression is, from the correspondence which has passed under my notice, that in the present state of the colony there must £''"^l!!''^^''''""'y '" ""-■ l'i-"'''"'n>'»'ice of engagements made by contractors h.S7. llKMi m caseot lailure ot the contractors by bankiuptcy,"insolvencv, want of capita . or otherwise, what would be the situation ot the troops ?— It is difficult to say wliat would be the Mtuation of the troops. 888. Might they not be very much distressed in consequence ?— Unquestion- &D.y so. 8S9. Can you state in what situation the commissariat establishment in Vim IJicmei.s Land IS ; are the supplies necessary furnishe.l by contract, or are the whole supplied by the establishment?-! do not recollect at present whether thev are now supplied by the establishment. ^ 8;)0 Has the contrncl system been at all attemptesue (or by pMi)lie sale dispose ot SUCH as aie lujt recpiiieil lor the troops) the suriilus pVovisions landed from the convict ships. In this colony liieie are 11 stations, at such distance from liead-(piaiters, and Irom each other, as to ret)uire at each station the presence of one or more iiidi- 'iduals ( t tiic coniniissariat. At t i 4 oiniiiissanat lO Miles N. 22 — N.K, 22 — N.W. 4,5 — N.W. rto — N. 74 N .\.E. 1(14 N. 124 N,, ON AJILITAIIV ESTADLISIIMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 71 At Ilolmit Town, the liead-quaitcrs.tlic general arrangements are formed ; the proceedings at the out-stations arc superintended during their progress, and tlie accounts of the expenditure! in cash, provisions and stores, for the whole of the services, military, colonial and convict, are controlled, checked and reiulered, with all r{(|uisitc vouchers in su|)port thereof, to the department of accounts, for exami- nation upon the spot, previously to their being Irunsjinilled to the ComuiissionefS for Auditing the Public Accounts in England, lor liiml audit. Richmond is a station 10 miles n.k. of Hoburt Town. Biighton ... Torell New Norfolk Bothwell Oatlands - - - Ross - - - .. (ieorgo Town Launceston - - - 124 — n,, is a penal settlement. And Port Arthur, on Tasman's Peninsula, is also a penal settlement, where a considerable number of convicts are confined. In the estimate of the probable expenditure of the commissariat, for the year '835-<>, amounting to 1 -,o,(i()o/., the following items are included ; viz. Supplies of provisions - - £. 5y,35ing out of the execution of these services cannot be performcil without a considerable Citablishment. In the year 1832, the connnissariat department in Van' Diemen's Land con- sisted of, 1 Assistant Connnissary-geiicral in charge. 5 Deputy Assistants. 13 (Merks. 6 Storekeepers. 14 Inferior persons. Making a Total of 39 Persons. This establishment may perhaps appear at tirst sight to be rather large ; but it is right to remark, that a great proportion consists of subordinate persons, and that tlie individuals of this tleseription, who are unavoidably employed, alford but very little eilicient assistance. The lieutenant-governor, in a connnunication addressed to the Treasury Board, dated the 3d September 1 832, expresscil \n> opinion, " that the strength at present of the connnissariat establishment is inadeejuale to the performance of the ilutics tliat are recpiired, without extreme ditViculty and embarrassment." The Treasury Board have always been desirous of keeping down the establish- ment to the lowest scale consistent with tiie proper pertorniance of the public service. In the last year, 1S34, the establishment of the connnissariat consisted of 34 per.sons, being a reduction of five from the number above stated ; and in March of the preseiil year the lieutenant-governor was directed, in pursuance of a Minute of the Hoard of Treasurv* to institute a coniplefi; revision of the commissariat department, and to report to their Lordships, for their consideration, the numbers and ranks of the oOicers, clerks, &c. that he may propose to be retained in that brancli of the service. Thomat Archer, Eiq. 14 July 1835. O.t I. K4 72 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Veneris, 17* die Julii, 183a. ROBERT GORDON, ESQUIRE, IN THE CHAIR. 17 July 1835 Deputy AssisiRiit Commissary-General IVilliainJ. Greig, Esq., called in; und Exuiniiicd. WiUiam J. Qrcig, ^i)/)- YOU have served in tlie commissariat in Canada ?— ^'es. Eiq. 89(1 . For many years? — For 21 years. 8!)7. In different grades :— I have been 21 years in my present grade. 8t)8. What is your present grade f— Deputy-assistant commissary-general. 8p(). When did you leave f 'un.ida " -In October 1833. 900. Have you ever had anything to do witli the commissariat in Nova Scotia? — I liave not. 901. We find upon reference to the accounts, that the expense of the commis- sariat in Nova .Scotia is one-third oidy ofthe expense of tlie commissariat in Canada, with nearly the same number of troops ; can you give us any explanation of the reason of the fzmit expense of the coumiissariat in Canada compared with that of Nova Scotia.^— The force of Nova Scotia is concentrated ; there arc not above three or four stations; in Canada there are 11 or testations; it is a very extensive command. 002. Do you consider that that circumstance alone, of a greater number of stations, is sufficient to account for the disproportionate expense of tlie commis- sariat in those two colonies ; have you any other leasons to give?— No; I am not aware that any otlicr reason is assigned. 903. Have the commissaries any ^leculiar duties to discharge in Canada that they have not in other colonies?— '1 hat I cannot say, not having served in other colonies. 904. What other duties have they in Canada?— In the ordnance department : when I was stationed at Quebec, for all building materials that were reipiired for public works, recpiisitions were made by the engineers, and then by the ordnance, upon the commissariat, for those materials ; they were then supplied by the connnis- sariat to the engineer officer ; those materials were never .seen by the ordnance, but they certified to the receipt of them ; in fact it was a mere paper transaction as far as the ordnance were concerned. At Kingston, in the same way, we acKer- tised for the carrying, on the public works, invited competition, entered into contracts, supplied thu ordnance with money, paid their drafts, and they were per- mitted to draw for any smii from ;,/. and upwards. Now it would have been no more trouble to the conimissariat officer at Kingston to have paid the individual that supplied the article, instead of going to the ordnance officer and getting a draft, which was brought to me as the officer paying the iiuuiey ; it "ave me addi- tional work, as I had to make an abstract of those drafts. The duty appears to me twice (lone, and it i> my opinion there is ,1 v;i.st deal more writing in pulilic otiices than is necessary. 90.1. Do you pay by drafts 011 the bank, or keep money in hand -—The ehaii^e had just tiiken place bi'f.ne I left. " UdO. ^^■llen you were present the money was paid by you as treasun r ? -I had the cu^tody of the iiioney : >iu(e then I have understood that the payments were made by the .Montival bank in Canada, and I believe they have branches in ditier- ent parts of the proviiiie. 907. In the payments you made on acciiunt ofthe ordnance department, had you any cheek on the acTuracy or the amount of the account, or merely the pay- ment of tile money '.- L'i>onthe ordiianee storekeeper's signature, countersigned bv the senior rtsjiective otiieers of tlie ordnanee ; their signature was the authority. I could not say what it w,is for, or whether it was correct. 908. You had nothing to do to .sanction the charge ?— No. 909. ilow did you pay the pensioners of the artillery ?— They are not paid by us, tliey are p.iiil by the onliiaiice. Ihe Chelsea peii>ioiicrs, Kiliuaiiihain liaf ' retired aiio\\aii(e, and under the lie.id of ordinaries of the Melsea peiiMoncrs, Kiliuaiiihain iialt-pav widows' pensions, and staff pay of the army, are charges naries of the army; tliev arc paid bv the commissariat, and are a great increase of duty. i»i(). Ar MITTEE AIR. ., called in ; ;rade. -general. in Nova Scotia? of the commis- iriat in Canada, lanation of the red with that of not above tliree » very extensive iter number of jf tlie conimis- -No; I am not in Canada that served in other L'e department : -•re re(|uiri(l for y the ordnance, by the comniis- ' the ordnance, ij)er transaction way, we adxer- , entered into they were per- 1 have been no the individual ■ and getting a gave me addi- y appeals to me in pul)iic othces -The ciiange isurcr"— I had payments uere nches in (iitier- ■partment, had nerel)' the pay- nntersigned bv the authority. re not paid bj- nham halt- pay ly, are charges nrmssariat, and <(ii' Are i ON MILITARY ESTAULISHMENTS IN TOE COLONIES. 73 [)\u. Are they paid half-yearly or quarterly ?— Regularly quarterly. !)i I. Are they paid at head quarters -—No, at several distinct stations. es, if you can get them to do il. 924. You were going on to state the other duties of the commissariat ?— The distribution of presents to the Indians. 925. Have you yourself attended at any of those distributions ?— Yes, I have. ()2(i. At what place did you attend that distribution ?— When I was stationed at roronto, late ^'ork, in L^pper Canada, I attended to issue presents to the Six-nation Indians. 927. At what place ?— .At Blandford, on the Grand River. 928. What is the nearest station to that? — Toronto. 929. At what distance?— From Toronto to the head of the lake, it is nearly 90 miles. 930. How many Indians attended ?— I should say from 1,200 to 1,400 probably ; tlieie were 20 different tribes. 931. At what months in the year?— The month of October. 932. One a year ?— This was annually. [)S3- •» the distribution always made at the same place?— I believe so. !)J4. What were the articles distributed ?~ A great variety ; I dare say I must have had from 70 to So bales, blankets, cloth, aud silver trinkets. 93.'i. Any hardware? — Yes. ;)3('. Are you sending gnidualiy now more useful things?— There were cooking utensils, ammunition, fire-arms, shot and hall. ()37. Did you take all those things up with you, or is there any depOt kept there ? !• — i entered H'illiam J, Greig, Esq. 17 July 1835. 74 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE UEFUIIE SELECT COMMITIEE milhm J. Gmg, —I intcicd into an «};rcenu'nt for a stcain-l)ont, and they were transferred to the E«q- ' lictui of the hike to Hamilton, and then tnmsferrcd hy hmd. .)3« l>id you distribute the whole of them r -Yes, there "ere some few rem- J7 July 1835. „n„ts rcniaininf,', that were > vnnett, and a sulmllern ; lie acted as the commandiiiij; oiVicer of the expedition. _ Ihcre is always a military officer accompanies the party, to see that tlie thing is properly done. .... , - II- 1 .^ • . ()4i. What is the duty of the chief of tlie Indian department :"— 1 1 !•>! duty is to hear if the Indians have anything to state ; the Indians held a council, and he attended. , , , . . ,• ^ •■ .• _ .)4j. On your arrival there, what measures are taken, and how is the distnhiition regulated ?— The allowance is stated on the estimate, whicli the Indian depart- ment have. , 044. You mean a scheme of distribution .— \ es. 1)4.-,. Who regulates the quantity to he delivered to each nation — 1 he Indian department, I sii|)pose. ,,•■■• i- »„ n4ti. Then your duty in the commissariat is merely a distribution, according to the scheme put into your hands - -The issuer and clerk of the department open the bales, ami measure out the exact portions to each tiihe. 1)47. According to the scheme put into their hands?- -Yes. U48. Do you furnish a scheme to tlie commissariat ?— Xo, I had very little to do with it. . . . , • <)4n. I low do yon report to your chief I .\ rc(iuisition is sent to the commis- sariat department, the amount of it is authenticated by the superintendent ol the Indian department ; he gives a receipt, and I enter it in my account as a linal issue. ..... , .j',0. You are a mere issuer upon that indent r--\ es, exactly. 051. And that dntv done, you return to the station " —Yes. or-'- What is there to prevent the olHcerof the Indian department .seeing tliem distril)iited?- I think the duty could be ihme by the commissariat without the Indian department ; I tliiuk that the Indian department is very useless, many of them. I conceive, if you have interpreters where the issues of presents are made, I mean men employed on a salary, instead of the overwlieliiiiiig Indian department, it would be (piite .Mithcient. 1)13. There are interpreters there "--Yes. 1 <• i- 0-,4. Do any observations occur to you, as to a better and cheaper mode ot dis- tribution than that which is now used "--I have never considered the subject, 1 never having been on this service but. once. 1 do not tliini, 1 am competent to •■■ive an opinimi, but I do think that the duties might he performed hy the commis- "aviat, by having an interpreter; these interpreters .speak the Indian languages, which are numerous; there is no tonnnissariat ollicer that could make himselt understood to those Indians. ()-,•;. Do noneoftho.se nations, so long in coumiunication witii the l.nglisli, speak the Knglish language ?— Yes, a great many of them. (|-,(i. Have they any interpreters to answer that purpose." - I have met with very many Indians liia't speak Knglish, and I should think in that particular district that thev all speak Knglish, or most of them. ."(.-,7. Are there any Knglish .schools established among them ?•— Yes, 1 under- stand there are. 1 1 1 c if-,S. I'lidcr wlu(se department would they be ; would tiiey be under the head ot the Indian department • Yes, I sluaild tiiink they are. O'ii). How many days did you stay there i^— Altogether, we were absent about 11 (lays. Olio. Did they come down on the day you arrived, and go away when you re- ined :- -Tlie issues were completed, I '■' i:i-ve. in three da)s. Ot'i. I'Vom what distance did they c, ,ie down to Blandlord ?— That I cannot teli, thev were distributed all over the cuiuitry ; they all came down in their carts and me, with ii clerk very little to do vith the English, •»* ON MILITARY ESTAIILISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. ; and wntrgons, in the Indian lostunie ; but they are luriners generuily, civiliztd ivn Indian.s. ''"" ijhi. Is there any iicinianent dcjirtt, or individual resident, at Ulandford .-— No depot, but I believe a MijH'iintendt-nt resides there. y(i;3. Is tl'ui tht oi.'y station in I'pper Canada where a distribution takeii place - — No, tliT is Amh rstbur^. ()i)4. ("hero ;ir'; ur to be two deputy-assistant coniniiHsaries-f^eneral, one issuer and one i^ l.ourei', at an expense of nearly Cm, I. ; can you state the duties they have to rf' .1 . Heeing there are otdy 4() rank and file of all classes stationed there r— ih \ . the supply of this detachuieut ; and there are others, the Indian uepartnientH, ^^ . .cc. «)(i,5. Have mm ever been there?— No; but the commissariat have all the pay- ments to 'III ;ind the Indian presents to issue there. «|fi(i. I', tliesameuay asat lilandford?^Yes, but it is much more an Indian country ; those Indians (rei|ueiitly lune provisions issued to them. Indians come in very freepiently in distress, and I believe there is an authority to permit the com- raandmg oHicer to issue provisions under his signature, on the representation of the Indian department. • 167- In what way is it brought to account .=— It is charged in the commissariat account. I kno\v that provisions have been issued by myself to Indians at York. <»t'S. Do you recollect what month in the year the distribution takes place at Amher.stburg ? — No. (((ii). Have you any idea of whether one-fourth or one-half of the presents for the whole of Canada were distributed at Dlnndibrd ---I cannot say. 1)70. For the supply of .^o men, a separate establishment, a commissariat, would be rerpiired it there »vas no distribution of those presents'— Yes, of course; if they are supplied by a connnissariat, ,--,0 or 100 men give yon ns much trouble, and the same torms of account are gone through, as a regiment. <)7i. Is there any other Iiulian station :■— The bay of Quente, near Kingston; they are supplied from Kingston. 972. Is there any station at the spot, or does some individual go out as you did tiom lUandford "- — \es, in the same way. y7,j. In what month? — I do not know. ()74. In what manner do you supply the station at Penetanguishine ?— I was not there ; when we gave up Drummond Island we removed to Penetanguishine, and that is our naval lieail-quarters on Lake Huron. ()7.'-,. Ikit at this time are there any other dependencies upon it? — No, it is a dependency of it.self; it gets its supply from York. 976. Do they not always contract to supply rations deliverable to the troops, or are tliey contracted for and delivered to you who issue them.?— While I was at \'ork, I contracted with an individual near I'enetanguishine ; he supplied the navy and the troops stationed there. ()77. Did he deliver so many rations on the indent of the commanding officer, and deliver them to the men, or deliver them to you tu issue I — The fresh meat was supplied by the contractor under his contract. <)7.S. Vou first made a contract ; is the contractor bound to deliver tin; rations according to the indent of the comniaiuling ofHeer connuaiuling the district, or does the contractor deliver the rations to the commissariat, and the commissariat re-issue them to the troops? — They go through the connnissariat : a return is made signed i)y the commanding olfieer, and brought to the connnissariat office ; if it is correct, the commissariat takes an aciiuit^Mv: of the ofHeer entitled to receive them, and upon that he issues his check upon the contractor. 1170. The provisions do not actually come into your hands (—No, not the fresh |irovisions. <)S(). Cenerally .speaking', they are i.ssued under your sanction ; your sanction being necessary for the agent at the store?— Yes. (iSi. Do you advertise publicly in the papers for contracts?— Yes, on all occasions. !)S2. Who receives and opens the tenders, and decides?— The tenders are received and opened in the presence of the commissariat ofiicer, and the ofheer coi-.nnanding at the station. 983.^ In iulvertising for the tenders, you specify about the average number you e.vpect ? — Yes, more or less. .Vnother thing I beg to state ; after the receipt of those tenders, the commissariat officer decides whic-li tender is to be accepted, but u.ll. Li there Ham J. Ortig, Etq. '7 July 183.5. 76 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE UWam J. Grcig, there is a Schedule made of those tenders in the presence of the commandin. Esq. J 7 July 1835. Mr. II in 1 11 Ci'iapiiiaii, officer, and he certifies, and the commissariut officer, that those tenders were opened in their presence. . ^ , . , , r 1 984. Supposing a complaint is made of the badness of the article by any ot the men, or by any persojjs connected with the station, to whom is the complaint made?— To the commissariat officer; it is made to the commanding officer in the Hrst instance, and he represents it to the commissariat. 08',. Is it your duty to inspect it, and make a report? — Yes, it depends upon the' way in which the contract is drawn up ; I have seen contracts drawn up in which the commissariat officer was the sole judge, and there was no appeal to any other judge, which made those contractors more vigilant ; but there ouglit to be no complaint from the troops. The contractor's stores happened to be, when I was stationed at iNiagara, very near my residence, and I used to attend in the morning ; for it is possible that an understanding between the contractors and the quarter- masters or sergeants might exist, to the detriment of the soldier ; they may say, we require such and such for our own mess, and the refuse or inferior article might be given to the soldier : as the soldier has nothing but his ration to depend upon, he ought to get it good. , , , , ((86. You have mentioned that you have attended at the contractor s stores ; wherever there is a contract, has the contractor a store ?— Yes, at his own expense, unless the commissariat had 11 store that is no use to the public service ; he is allowed then 'o make use of it. . (187. Did you heiir of any difficulty in any part of Canada 111 receiving tenders, when due notice was given ? — No. ,11- ()88. Have you ever known contractors fail in their engagements .-—1 believe they have occasionally. {)8(). Do vou demand security ?— Yes. t)0O. Eventually the iniblic do not suffer?— No. I have on two or three occa- sions at Niagara, when the troops have actually taken the meat, insisted upon the meat being returned, as I did not think it of a good quality ; and I sent to tlie market and purchased meat, and deducted the amount from the contractor s account at the end of the month. _ , , , ;■ 1 0(»i. In all cases do the troops receive their rations direct from the liands ot the coiitractor, or in any ca.ses do they receive their provisions from the com- missariat's stores l-*— Wlicrever I have served, the provisions have been issued by the contractor, upon orders from the commissariat officer. 0q2. Would there be any ditVicuity, in case of the absence of the commissariat upon anv station in Canada, in the troops obtaining supplies by their own regi- mental contracts?— I do not sec that there would be any difficulty in it, but there are regular accounts kept. (103. Is there any .station at Canada in which, if tiiere was no commissariat, the troops in passing through the country might be exposed to inconvenience for the wi«.\-t of a supply?— If there is a previous notice of a few days, the commanding officer makes iiis arrangements. ni)4. In time of peace, no troops do pass from one district to another xMtiuiut previous notice : — It is always announced when troops are moving; the changes are periodical. (M)> What does a .soldier receive for his ration in Canada .-' -.\ pound ot bread and a pound u22. When did vou leave CMniida - — On Chrismas-eve. The government r me : thev cannot can have no more contr(;l over the Indians than pr( the Indians buying rum; persons will always !)ring it to them, inid my notion is that a very small portion of the Indian presents find their way into the counti' uij ). Do yuu know whether the olficers of the Indian department laigu any Mr. Henry Chapman, 17 July 1835. Mr. Win. Bnian, If 78 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COM.MITTEE has lieen sustained from not keeping the stores in Van Die- men's Land filled N\ith grain ; a scarcity an/se at the latter end of the year, and His Majesty was paying iS a. a biislul for hi- wheat. 1041. That must be great neglect on the part of the commissary ? — No doubt ; and a great act of ignorance on the part of the government putting forward adver- tisements later in tlie year than tluy ought to do. aiiout tiie spring of the year 1 d- per lb. or rather lower. When the wheat in a scarce year was 13*'. ^er bushel, the 4 lb. loaf was 1 ,v. 1 d. Upon the whole, 1 think the colony is capable of feeding any number of troops c con- victs which is likely to be scnc out; I should say, double the number it feeds at present ; the increased demand would cause an increased production to meet it. Mr. George Fairfavl. 17 July 1835. Mnrtirii, 2'J" die .hilii, 1635. KOBLKT GORDON, ESCaiRE, IN TH1<: ClwilK. Deputy .Vssi^tant Coimnissary-gcneral //'. J Cireig, Esq., calln i -. j and ly.J. Oirig, Ksq. further Examined. - lo.V). IS it your opinion that the commissariat duties in the Canadas could be ^^ J"ly >«;'o- eomlucted with a .^inaller cslablijhuicnt ? Ye--.. luiio. Will you state in what manner?— When I was sta».i'->Med at York, Hi the years 1S27 and iSj8, tlie establislimeiit consisted ot' myself, a 'f-reasury clerk, two issuers, and a labourer ; five altogether. T touhl huvi. conducted the duties with t«o persons lesn. ^ lotii. I briieve you arc deputy-assistant contmissa>y-general ?-— 1 es. i()t>-j. At Yoi^ ■ -Yes. . . . 10(13. "^^''''t J" >"" s"y ^I'c ostablLslmuMit ai York could be conducted with.'— 1 nni s|)eui.ing of the years !8.'7 ar.d 18 .'8. 0.1 I. 4 1004. Vou wimm Ml i I I 80 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE »'. J. Greig, Esq. 1 064. You think that is capable of being reduced ? — In the vears 1 827 and 1 828 ' 1 could have conducted the dutic ^vith two persons less. Since 1827 there has aa July 1835. been an increase of 459/. 9*. id. in the expenses of the establishment, and last year a deputy commissar) -general was added to the York establishment; making an increase in the expenditure, since 1827 and 1828, of I, i.'Ji/. \\s. id. When I heard of this arrangement I expressed my surprise that an ofHccr of the rank of deputy commissarv-general should be sent there, since which, however, he has been removed from the command altogether; which goes to prove that I was correct in my opinion. I conceive, however, a deputy commissary-general of ability quite equal to the performance of the duties in Canada, by which change the Treasury will immediately efiect a saving of 1,200/. per annum. The military pay of the commander of the forces in British North America is 755. lorf. per diem ; wiiilst that of the conmiissary-general, an officer under his comnrand, is 94,v. I 1 (/. per diem. Tiie whole of the pay of the commissariat requires revision. 106.5. Then am I to understand, when you were there in the years 1827 and 1828 there w as only one assistant commissary-general r — Deputy-assistant commissary- general. 1066. And two issuers? — One Treasury clerk, two issuers, and one labourer. iu()7. It appears in the year i8;;3 that there was an assistant commissary- general, two deputv-assistant commissary-generals, one conductor, and three issuers? — Yes. I0C8. Making an increase at York since the year 1827 r — Yes. iot)9. And vet your opinion is that even the establisiiment in 1827, when you were there, was more than sufficient ?— Certainly. 1070. Are vou aware that tliere has been any increase of duty r — There has been an increase of duty ; a great number of pensioners have established them- selves at York and in the neiglil)ourhood, which has increased the duty. 1071. Does the increase of pensioners admit of neces.sity of a greater increase in tiie establishment? — 1 shouhi suppose, probably, an additional officer. 1072. Instead of three r — Yes. 1073. Do you think that the establisimicnt in 1S27 was more than sufficient to dispatch the business? — There were two mo. j tiian were necessary. It was no part of my duty tt) reconmiend reductions, unless called upon by the head of my depart- ment to state mv opinion ; and even had I been disposed to volunteer an opinion, 1 should not have done so, for the following reasons : I at that time had from 12,000/. to 13,000 /. in the chest ; the expenditure averaged about 2,000 /. u month ; I wrote to the commissary-general, stating to him that I should be very glad to reduce my l)alance, and if money "as rerjuired at Kingston I should be very happy to supply it, as I iiad to count this money every quarter, and it gave a great deal of trouble and I iiad no use for it, as the British silver paid out of the chest during the month was always brought back to ti)e oilice for 'i'rcasury bills : his reply was, that that was a matter for his consideration, not mine. Had the commissary- general called on me to state conscientiously wiiat establishment it required to conduct the duties at York, I sliouid have stated that I could dispense with the services of two person-. 1074. Now what sort of daily attendunc* did you, as deputy-assistant com- inissary-genrral at York, give? — I was ut tf>t otfice generally every morning at 10 o'clock; whatever payments there M«re to be irittde. were made between 10 and iialf-past tliree or tour o'clock. 107,1. Did von remain there the "hole oi tliat tinier -I remaineii generally every day ; occasionally 1 iiave had to go up to tliC gwrtsoti on duty, and down to the contractors. &c. 1076, Your ljusiiH>- was fljrJIy ? — Yes, it was. 1077. U'iiat did the conductor do" — There were i^Mie* to lite tro*»p» and to the garrison, and tli( dillereiit d( partiricnts, Ike. 1117S. Dill i,i!( I- take place daily? — Ul ,. to the ire&ps weekly; but at to the issues to nuliviiliud-, it v\a' impossible to say at what Umr they would call; these issues were not so regular as to the troops 1079. Were the issuers persons who remained in tiie office: wb** i.s the nieaninij of the word issuer J* — Thev are issuers of stores, nrovi-ioiis, sWfit-. fi.t I, &.C. It is H subordinate appointment idSo. ^'our ofMilion is, that *< Voil^. ilieii, one deputv -.i-sistaut conum^sn'y- genrral, one conductor, and ync jisuer, would liave been enougli '. — \ os, that is my opinion, I Cuuid have condiiCted the duties with tbftt e!«tabii»hmei»t la 1827 uiid 1828. 1081. \on ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 81 t three issuers? I27, when you ,' .f 1081. You could liavc conducted it with a less establishment at that timer — Yes, I could. 1082. Had you unytliing to do but to pay money r — Pay money, issue |jrovi- sious, and issue stores, fuel, &c. 1083. Then your provisions were taken by contract: — The flour was issued to bakers, which I consider a very bad method. I think the better way is to contract for bread baked. 'J'iie system at some of tlie stations in Canada is to purchase flour, lo issue it to tiie bakers ; and he gives so many pounds of bread for so many pounds of (' »ur. 1084. Can you give, from your own knowledge, any other information as to any odicr of the conmiissariat stations;? — No. 108,5. In tlie Canadus ? — Certainly. 1 080. Wiial one r — Fort George. 1087. What do you know of the establishment of Fort George in i8'27 ? — I was ordered to Fort Cicor^e in 1828, to relieve Deputy-assistant Commissary-general \\ ickins, and Mr. Wilson, a Treasury clerk. They were ordered to Drummond Island. I relieved two persons there, and I perfurujed the duties of the station with perfect ease. loHS. You think, then, the establishment at Fort George was too large' — Yes, I think it was unnecessary altogether. loS.j. That there should be none at all? — In four hours you go from York to Fort Geoi'ge by steam. 1090. Do you think that the whole counnissariat establishment at F'ort George is unnecessary? — Yes; I will state why it is unnecessary. 1091. Because you can communicate in four hours with York? — Yes, that is one reacM; and as everything is done l)y contract, there is nothing to prevent the officer at Vork from going over monthly and settling with the contractors, if it is even necessary to keep a detachment there, wliich I understand it is not. 1092. You consider that the establishment at Fort George is unnecessary alto- gethc ? — Yes. 1093. Do you mean to say this, that the additional duty at Fort (ieorge can be done with a diminution of est.bli.-hment, which you also recommend at York? — I am spcakinu nMative to the years 1S27, 1828 and 1829 ; to tha years I was in charge at York "'.ul l<'ort George. 1094. When you were therein the year 1 827, you not only had not enough to do for yourself but you could have clone all the duties of Fort George without the other establishment? — Yes, in the way I have po -.ted out. 109;,. My question is this, that as you recommend the establishment at Fort George to be done away with, as here stated, altogether, would you think that diminution of establishment, which you also reconnneud at York, is quite sufficient to do the duty of York uiul also of Fort (Jeorge?— Yes, when 1 was there. 1096. Are you awuie of any duties that have been superadded since you were there? — The increase id pensioners, I am not aware of anything else ; but I un- derstand that I'cnefangnishine has addeu to the duties at York; it v\as a dc|)en- dency on York. When I was in charge in 1827 and 1S2S, I entered into contracts for su|)plying the naval establishment there, and they drew their supplies of money from n)y chest; anil as far as I was eoneerned, I considered the duties, 1 mean the labour, insignilieant. i()()7. What additional establishment would l>e necessary in order to pay those pensioners? — I have alreatly stated that an additional officer would be enough. I think that the establishment would be quite cipial for the duty, with that addi- tional otVicer. 1098. Supposing the commissariat establishments at York and Fort George were'uniled, with the additional duty of paviii'j: the pensioners, which thev have now imposed on ihem, wliat wouhl be the establishment which you think sufficient for those two united cstul)lishmentsr--An assistant commissary-general, a deputy- a.-sistant, one conductor, and two issuers ; that is about the same establishment 1 had. !()()(). No labourer? — No, the issuers are sutlitic'iit. 1 100, That would he sufficient to conduct the two united stations of York and Fort George, with the addilioiml duty impo.sed on them of |)aying the pensioners? -Yes. 0.11. M HOI. Do ir. J. Oieig, Esq. 22 July 1835. W. J. Grtig, Esq. aa July 1835. !■ I ji 1 82 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 1 101. Do you know anytliing of any other estublislimeut r — There is Kingston. 11 0-2. At Kingston there appears to be at present an assistant commissary- general, two deputy-assistants, one elerk, two issvii rs, ami one messenger ; do you conceive that to be more than suflicient for the cst.ibhshnient in cjuestion at present, for the duties wliich are to he performed ?— I think tlicre mif;ht be one officer less, or the clerk reduced. \\'l\en I was statiimed there in 18.M), I believe the establish- ment consisted of 10 or 11 persons, and I am of opinion that the duties could have been conducted with three persons less. 1103. Do you know of any other establishment r— Yes, the Rideau Canal, Bytown. 1104. Willi reference to the Rideau Canal, what can you state with respect to that? — I was stationed there two years, 18:50 to 183-2; I li'ft in i83'2. There were four officers there : tiiere was an assistant eommissary-i'^eneral. three deputy-assist- ants, a cooper, and a labourer. The duties might have been executed with two officers less ; the assistant, in lact, did nothing but sign his name and occasionally write an official letter. 1 105. What do you say with regard to any other i)lacer — As a proof of the cor- rectness of whiit I have staled nspccling the Rideau Canal, I beg leave to state that for the first two or three years the duties were performed by Deputy-assistant Commissary-s;enrral Miller, and one clerk or conductor, I cannot recollect which; they performed the duties, I believt;, i'or the first two or three years, when there was much more to do than latterly. 1106. What do you know of any other station? — Under commissary-general Turquand, in the year 1 82,-,, the coinniissuriat establishment in the Canadas consisted of 7() individuals in roimdnumbcrsof all classes; under Commissary-general Routh, in the year 1 S33, the commissariat estahlishnicnt consisted of 84 individuals, not- withstanding that the duties under the latter officer had very niuch diminished ; tor instance, the i.-sue of spirits was discontinued to the troops. The accounts for the commanii art in duplicate, with one abstract only ; whereas, under Mr. Tur(juand, the accounts wire in triplicate, and an ali>tract for every head of serviri,-, anti there were from 12 to 14 beads of service: tliciei'ore, one set of accoimls being done away «ith, and all these abstracts, 1 should conceive the labour to have been about third less or nearly a third, and consecpiently a reduction ought to have taken place in the year 1827. it appears to me very many subordinate ap()ointments in the com!ni.-.>ariat may he abolished altogether. Tiiere are very few issues now made by the department, if you excejit the Indiiin pn smits, ami those occur annually. Most of the supplies for tlie army are coiilracled for; conse(|uently the issues a'le made by the party ciaitractiiig to lurnish these supplies, on orders from the coniuii>sariiit otVicer. At all stations where there are barracks (if the public departments are etmsolidaletO there is nothing to pi. \ent the commissariat l)eing in chan'e of thj barracks, bv which means a liarrack estalilishment would be unnecessarv. . 1107. Have \ou made aiiv calculation in your opinion ol the reduction which may take piac «> in the comml-^ariat establi>hnieiUs in Canada, without atVecting the service ?— I can only .->tate that Deputy Commissary-general I'orlK'S, (now on half- jiay in Ca i ,da, and wiio serveil in those colonies, and has lately returned from Jamaica, a gentleman standing %ery hi;;h in the service, and exceedingly clever in commissariat matters,) luis frei|ueiilly told me that lie could conduct lite commissa- riat duties in Canada at half the expensi . 1108. Half wliat expense ?--Iialf the |-,,liould approve of such an establishment. I UK). I1 it your opinion that, "illi the diitiis that now (all eiit>, that instead of the com- missariarcosting i.'i.ooo/. a year, thai it might be carried 011 as efficiently for one half that sum? — 1 should say a third les,>. I I 10. Do you think it might lie catiietl on tor 10,000/. ? — 1 think it could, nil. J lave you ever made aiiv iepresent;ilion t'> the Treasury to that effect r-^ No, 1 have not ; because it was not my duty 10 coiimient upon lUe conduct of my sujMiriors.. Illi. You have never made a reprcseutution to that effect in any (juarter r — No I have not ; I had some convn.siilii!n la-t v :ir mih a .M ■mb r of I'arliament, who »i. ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 83 who was one of this Commiftee, and lie gave inc a note to Mr. Rice, the present ff^.j. Greig, Esq. Chancellor of the Exchequer, who saw inc and asked me several questions, which 1 he took a note of at the time. The conversation had reference to the reduction in !»« July 1835. the connnissariat establishments in Canada. 1113. Is il yutir opinion that the ordnance civil establishment would admit of bcinj; reduced ? — Yes, it is. 11 14. In what manner? — Previous to the war, there was no ordnance establish- ment at Montreal, Isle aux Noix, Kinuston, and the Rideau Canal. At precent there are lar^rc osiahlishments at all these stations, or at least two of them. Il appears to me, in the way in which the duties are now conducted, that ei'her the commissariat or tlie ordnance, no matter wliicli, arc quite ecjual to the duties of both departments. wir,. Su()posiiig you were to carry into effect the contemplated reduction of the ordnance, would tlu; coinmissariat be susceptible of reduction to the same extent which you have adverted to just now? — That I cannot say, because I do not exactly know the duties of the ordnance. Will the Committee allow me to state a case, but one which shows the system that is i)ursucd in Canada ? The accounts in the ordnance are made out in triplicate, and I should imagine the forms were much the .same as they were in the reign of (iuoen Elizabeth : for instance, if any articles be required, say for the adjutant-general's department, a requisition is made by the adjutant-general, approved of by the military secretary, and sent to the ordnance storekeeper ; tiiese articles arc not in store j the ordnance storekeeper then makes a reciuisition on the commissary-general, the articles are purchased by tlic commissariat, and furnisiied to the adjutant-general ; they are never seen by the ordnance. The individual fronj whom tiie articles are purchased then makes out a set of accounts in triplicate; he prays to be allowed the sum for the articles that have been supplied to the adjutant-general ; the rates arc certified by two competent persons to be agreeable to the market-price of the country. The account is on a sheet of foolsca[) pajHr : on the first page is tiie tradesman's account or bill ; on the second page is a letter from the senior or chief respective olficer, desiring the ordnance storekeeper to pay to the individual wiio has furnished the articles the amount of the w ithin account ; on the third side of the siieet is the receipt ; and 1 have often seen accounts to the amount of lialf-a-crown made out in that form, with the exception as to the certificate of rates. Now, it a|)|)ears to me that if the rerpiisition came direct from the adjutant-general to the commissary- general, it would sa.e an immense deal of trouble ; or indeed to tiie ordnance store- keeper. 1 1 It). There would be a consequent saving of expense in the clerical department? — No doubt of it. For nil building materials reipiirtd for fortifications, barracks, &c. under the control of the royal enuincers, the reciiiisitions are made in the same manner ; instead of applying ilirect to the commissariat, everything has to go through the ordnance; i»y wiiicii it wouki appear that tiiese duties are performed by the ordnance, when in fact they are executed l)y the comniissariat, who have to advertise, to enter into contracts, to raise money, and make the payments upon ordnance drafts, which is also an increase of labour to both departments. 1117. Are the two departments, in point of fact, blended together in a certain vay} — They are very distinct: all this I imagine is intended as a check, but I do not sec that it is any check. I conceive the ccitificate of receipt (on the face of the voucher) of the head ol the de|)artmeiit f(ir \»liom the articles are recpiired and supplied is (|uile sufficient, and oiigiit to he considered perfectly satisfactory to llie public. 1 1 iS. And there arc valuers as to the price, are there? — .\11 accounts over 10/. are certified by competent persons, as to the fairness of liie ciiarges. ill(|. Do von think any considerable saving of expense would be effected by simplilying the mode ol keeping these accounts ? — No doubt of it ; I have a system of accounts that 1 have drawn up applicable to the colonies, which would simplify and reduce the expense very materially. 1 IJO. Do you think il the ordnance ilcpartnienl in Lo\\er Canada was reduced to the extent which you have suggested, lluil the comi!!i>-biU!al would lie th.en capable of the same reituction which you have also rcconmieiuied ? — 'llie estimate stales i,',,n(u venr for tiie ordnance, and l-'i.odi)/, tor the commissariat; I tiiink I;-,, 0011/. a vear w(cncrnl in (Junndn, who did nothinf: hut sign their names ; the whole 28 July 1835. duty was pcrtoriiied hy niysolt' and other junior officers ; all they did was to impede the service. For instance, if a draft v,as required at any one of the out- stations, or any other document requiring the signature of the assistant commissary- general in charge, if he ^^■as not in the office the party had to call again j while the junior officer was generally at his post and could liave signed the document. 1121. Can you give any information respecting the telegraphic def)artment in Canada? — The telegraph ileiiartmcnt is paid out of the military chest, Hud I think it ought to be paid hy the provincial government and the mcrclumts of the colony. 1122. Do you consider it more commercial than political"' — In time of war these telegra|)hs were established at considerable expense, but they arc used now more for commercial purposes. 1 123. Were tiiose telegrai)lis originuiiy established for military purposes, or for civil purposes?— I believe for military pur|ioscs. 1 124. You think now they are no longer useful? — I think they are useful, but I think the province derives all tiic advantage of them ; for instance, the merchant vessels at a distance are announced l)y them. 1 1 25. In your opinion tlu; merciiants should he called on to pay for their expense during peace? — I think they ought to contribute a part of the expense. 112(1. These telegraphs are made use of in announcing tiie arrival of merchant ships?— Yes, merchant ships and troops' ships of war. 1127. And men-of-war? — Yes, once in a t»velvcmonlh perhaps. 1 12S. Do you know «hat the whole expense of the telegraph department is? — I believe about ,Y^~ I. a year. 1 129. Do you know anything of liie money tliat is allowed as command money to officers in conunand as allowance, in Canada ?— Yes, I do ; at Penetanguishine, at Amiierslburg and Foil St. George, there is 75. id. a day allowed to each of the officers in command. 1130. Forwliat? — As conunand money. 1 1 Ti. Do you know the rank of the ollicers?— Two captains and a lieutenant. ii:;2. Do you say that is unnecessary?- This was nn allowance granted (luring the war, they being frontiir stations His .Majesty's warrant was issued for this sum; but there is no counnand niouiy issui.d at York, Kingston or .Montreal, whieh are much more iujportant stations ; at Kingston there is an entire regiment and a start". ... , ,r 1 133. What is there at Montreal ? —five companies ot a regnncnt and a statl. 1 134. Do you know whether there are lieutenant coliintls at those two stations, Montreal and Kuigston?- -There is a lull colonel at KiuLi-ton and .Montrtial. 1135. Do they receive as commanding oilicers of that regiui 'nt any allowance hevond their niilitary pav ? - I know of nothing : at Fort (ieorge there is a captaui and 40 men' 1 "have a-ked the reason of this allowance, and I have understood it was a kind of table money; that whfii Upper Canada was tirst settled there were no inns and tiie coa.manding tilhcer was oi)lig(d to entertain persons ; it was rather a tax on a man's income, and therefore this allowance was granted ; how( ver the country now is as thickly settled as many parts of England. 11311. \\itli re-i)eei to the allowance to the clerk at IVnetanguishine, do you object to that?— lilo not know why the commanding officer should reipiire a clerk ; it strikes me as unnecessary. 1137. What hive you to .say with reference to the chaplains* department ?— It is very much reduced ; but I do not kr:ow aiivlhing to prevent the elergymen at the ilirtcrent stations, perlorming the duties of eliaplain. 1 1 3S. Have you any observation to make on the a|)pointmei)t of brigade-majors ■: — There are two brigade-majors in Canada, and there are only two regiments at (iuebee, or parts ol legimenl^ ; and the other legimentK are distributed, one at Montreal and one at Kingston, and the other regiment at the upper ports. I is necessary r — There are. 1 131). Do you think one aiLiai more I believe, two brigade-majors in Canada. 1140. Do you think, one brigade-major having ceased, any could be made bv removing the other brimde-uiajor? further reduction -I am not sufficiently accpiainted ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 85 iiin : wl)ilc the <3 July 1835. acquainted with military matters to ofl'cr an opinion ; but I beg to say, there is a W. J, Gnig, Eiq. deputy adjutant-general at bead-quarters, and an assistant at York. 1141. Have you any observation to make on the engineer departments at all the important stations ? — There is a lar^e local engineer department at Quebec, Kingston, Montreal, and other stations ; there are a number uf individuals borne on the strength of these de|)urtnicnts ; foremen of artificers, foremen of carpenters and masons, &c. I think if the public works were contracted for, instead of keeping u|) these permanent establishments, that it would be cheaper; always having oflicers of the royal engineers to superintend the works as they progress. 1142. Have you any observation to make with regard to the barrack depart- ment? — There are barrack-masters at most of the stations in Canada ; and as I have before stated, if the public departments were consolidated, I do not see why a commissariat officer (or whichever officer is there, whether a commissariat or ordnance officer,) could not perfovm the duties of barrack-master as well. 1 143. Do you think the duties that are now performed by the barrack-masters, by the officers under the ordnance, and by the local engineer departments, might all be consolidated and performed by one set of persons? — I think you require but one (lo))drtmenl to i)erform all tliose duties : indeed every duty connected with the su|)plying of an army, or for carrying on public works : one department I consider quite eqtial to the duties, and I am sure they would be performed much more efficiently than at present. Vemrh, 31* div Jtitii, 1835. ROBERT GORDON, ESQUIRE, IN THE CHAIR. Mr. William Green, called in ; and Examined. It and u stair. 1 144. HAVE you been employed as commissary? — Yes. 1 14,';. Have you been in Nova .Scotia? — Yes. 1 i4t). .Are you lately returned from Nova Scotia? — Yes. 1 147. Mow long since? — About lour months. 1 148. Have you ever been en;ployed in Canada? — Yes. 1 149. As a commissary ? — Yes. 11,50. Tlic Committee have observed that the expense of the commissariat in Nova Scotii' amounts to rather less than ."jjOoo/. a year, whereas the expense of the commit ariat in Canada exceeds i.'i.ooo/., and there are nearly the same nunibtr ol troops employed in each of those colonies; can you give any informa- tion to the Committee of the cause of that excess in one colony as compared with the other?— In consequence of the greater number of military posts in Canada wlnie troo|)s are stationed, public works carried on, and payments to be made; a small number of troops rccpiiring nearly as nuich trouble in provisioning them as a whole regiment ; and lUe merely provisioning the troops being, in garrison, and particularly in lime of peace, the least portion of the duly which the commissariat are called upon to perform, but it depending more on the public works, on the movement of troops, and on the various payments ; those for half-pay and pensions, particularly to Ciielsea out- pensioners, are very considerable in Canada, where they are paid individually by the commissariat : also, the great distance of the posts from head-quarters, and from each other, requiring the superintendence of an othter at most of them, and where there are many works carrying on, or payments to make, the assistance of one or more, the officers being employed frequently as clerks : also, from the greater responsibility of the stations, an officer of the rank of commissary -general being employed there. 1151. Do you not consider many of the posts in Canada might be consolidated? — During the latter part of the time I was there, tiiere were many of the post-* that were consolidated. The last charge I had there, I had four posts. n.52. What were those four posts? — Chambly, St. John's, Isle aux Noix and William Henry, where they had some time before commissariat oflicers to each. 0.11. M 3 1153. Do Mr. Wm. Gretn. 31 July iSsfi. Mr. IVm. Grttn. 3t July 1835. 86 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 1153. Do you know whether the posta at York might be consolidalcd r— No, they are at a considerable distance : it depends upon the number of troops and the works goinu on. 1154. York is the same as Toronto ?— Yes j they are at a considerable distance. 1155. What is the distance between them?— I think by land it must be 120 miles. 1 156. What by water? — The distance is less by water ; in lien of getting round the buy, they arc able to go acrosa^ it is not more than 50 miles by water. 11 ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE COLONIES. 87 I contiiderable t must be 120 APPENDIX. on< M4 a^ .^03- ^^^^ >- .0. .3 IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) Y // . M^^f Photographic Sciences Corporation m V" i\ \ %^ 'o %^ 23 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, NY. 14580 (716) 872-4503 WUa I 88 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SELECT COMMITTEE i |i I i i LIST OF APPENDIX. No. i.-Retuov of the Numbs™ and Distribution of the Effective Force, Officers, Nnn-commi,.. r".l w .""• Tv n '"'' .^t °^ '•''" ^",''''' ^""y- *"^'"'""g Colonial Co.ps, in New South Wales and Van Diemena Land, in each Year since 1815: including Artillery an.l Engineers p. 89 No. 2— Return of all Pay Allowances, Emoluments and Salaries issued to Officers of th» Mibtary, Ga.ris.,n. Med.cal and Commissariat Stalls, and of the Ordnance Department; m New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land, for the Twelve Months ended 31 March ' ■*"' P- 90 . No. 3._Di8tributimi of the Troops serving in New South Wales and Van Diemens Land on the lot 11 111) 1 0r) iX ••"■""■__ ^ p- 95 No. 4 — Return ol the Numbers and Distribution of the Effective Forcp Mffi^o.o M,.„ ™.„- sioned Ofllcers, an. Rank and File, of the British Arr/i^^h'^^^'e^r'^Li^ "ardr to r-^e latest Returns received, including Colonial Corps, and Artillery and Engineers. ^' ^"' ^"iausriulim ""^ '-^ ^™-°'" '^"'"^ '" ^'""' '*""''' "'"^ '" DeP^'-^encies, according''io the P- 9t> No. 6.-Distiibution of the T->ops at Bermuda on the ist January 1835, the Date of the 'jtf.t Ueiurn leceived •--.... .-" "<; .oicm - P- 97 No. 7.-Distiibutioii <,f ibe Troops at Newfoundland on the 1st February 183/;, the Date of thn latest Keturn received j 'io> ••'■= "»"! "• lut - P- 97 No. 8 -Distribution of the Troops serving in Canada on the 1st January 1835, the Da'e of the latest Ketuni received -----.. j ^'^' b.«- ■ mi^ - P- 98 No. 9— Kstimale of what might be the probable. Expense of the Commissariat, cleared (rom inv Convict Arrangements, and the Balance between that Lstim.ite and the present L.spwiae. P- 99 No. lo.-Treasury Letter addressed to the Ollicer commanding in New South Wales, resnectin^ Arrangemenu tor conducting the Duties of the Conunissariat Department, and IVan fir of Government Funds from the Military Chest to the Hanks at Sydney - . p. ,00 No. U.-Abstract of Requisition for Tools, Material, Clothing and Stores of different Descrintions requiredlorthe use of several Public Departments, connected with the Maintenance"; Convuts lor One \ear, from the 25lh December 1831 to the 24th December 1812 inclusively -..-.... '".>*> P- 103 No. i«.-Proportional Uiflcrence between the Gave of 4,800 Convicts, and the Care of as manv Soldiers -•---.... ""iiiy p. 118 No. 13 — Correspondence respecting Examination of Arrear Accounts . - . - p. u8 No, l4.-Exttacts ot- a Minute of the Commissioners for Auditing the Public AccounU, dated J n|>ril lOJj • - ■ . . _ , _ ^ ^ _nfni ■ " p« 1 « 1 : [ 89 ] APPENDIX. I — No. 1.— NEW SOUTH WALES, VAN DIEMEN'S LAND, &c. RETURN of the Numbers and Distribution of the Effective Force, Officers, Non-commis- sioned Officers, and Rank and I.'ile, of the British Army, including Colonial Corps, in each Year since 1815 ; including Artillery and Engineers. Officers Present, or on Detached Duty at the Station. 1 i ■3 u e , a n & s .a - "n' a. a c c ii 3 3 1 3 1 3 < il 1 11 J2 3 c C 35 Jan. 181G - 1 3 9 13 6 » 1 40 »9 572 — 1817 - 1 1 9 18 4 1 1 3 44 19 684 — 1818 - 1 3 10 >4 11 1 3 30 n 90B — 1819 - 1 3 9 J9 9 I 1 a 37 12 7G8 — 1820 - 1 3 9 17 7 1 2 41 >3 722 — 1821 - 1 3 10 21 8 1 1 50 13 1,002 — 1822 - I 2 9 >9 1 1 2 50 16 1,023 — 1833 - 1 3 7 12 6 1 1 46 >5 990 — 1824 - 4 14 18 12 2 2 a 2 3 67 23 1,063 — 1825 - 1 4 15 >7 11 3 1 3 2 60 22 1,200 — l82(i - 3 5 18 28 t 3 I 2 2 3 75 30 1.5C9 — 1827 - 3 4 21 37 7 3 2 2 2 3 100 29 1,766 — 18:8 - 1 4 22 40 13 3 2 3 3 3 128 42 1.974 — 1829 - 2 6 sC 42 »7 2 3 3 3 5 .43 38 2,397 — 1830 - 2 5 26 32 iG 3 3 3 2 4 114 33 2,047 t Jan. 1831 - 3 7 30 40 27 3 3 3 3 C 140 42 2,568 — 1832 - 3 C 3» 34 27 3 3 3 3 6 13a 35 2,410 — »?33 - 3 4 <>:■ 3> 33 3 3 3 1 6 114 37 2,107 Adjutant-General's Office,! 2j March 183., J John Macdonald, Adjutant-General. 473- N m 90 APPEND. .V TO REPORT FROM SELECT COMMITTEE o o ■3 a 3 a E o < S -J _- " tfl o c» [■: CO 5, .__ ~5 < '=■3 .^ C < »3 C K O y O '^. 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'"E CO c *j ea o 1^ a o " o 2 •^ « a X ^> a O to £ a 0) •5 »o CO w g en c3 eg O « cT OS PQ •S B II) J e •< »- ea (J L. S ^ E g I6t2 c c .2 « i| .0 o E o U „-a 2 c •3 to 91 o I (S E ■§ .c to to I t>. CO I CO •* o t^ 1-0 CO to to I t*. t^ I CO to o r^ CO CO — - CO s>^ ' ' ' b es ri. Oi J?. 4) S Din Ditt Ditt Tern u CO -H ^ -« Cd 3 3 O eo 473- r 2 op e9 o i»l L4 I O 3 .2 Ji! = O 5 t- M I! ■imrmmBiii'S.. m I f 93 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SELECT CX)MM1TTEE '■is .Si-a ■^.i^s -2 a '3 i-i 3 •< a Ml St: a - 3^ j3 u -f g |3| T « • = fi u =^ Q. a •> « 52 M la Jo Q-S-O o is ^1 £a 3o ■12 2 11" ^ »• ^ 1 1 1 to 2" 1 . ; " 00 oo . a- '•'5 c* « « __ • • •-_o>_ i2 i_ •^ ■ 1 1 r-m \i, rt • b: -i-S -o , -C -C ^ 3 *» J i ta. < S '-' 1 ■ 1 1 1 rfl ■- M ' ' ' •< 3; S t; « — » S '3 ."035 •« 2 o O r. 1 -H" 1 1 -•* 1 0) *' S" '1 \n f. - ■ ^ . 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H i w .E -3 2 !=• 4^ u. 0^ 3 i i -5 ' 1. n q S, -J 2 Id •73 !l 1 < it 3 ■-5 C3 bi "•^ St., S -5 3" M y. ._ - ^ -1 < ^ 1 1 T^ ; 7'"^ ' • • ■ • 1 1 3 f- so - o > o U ^ 2 2i _ o ■J si, -^ o i 3 li 111 . --• a 1 U ^ • 3 n 1 1 1 1- '^ s "^ >> i ■" ^ Sj "=^^■'^^. U ■k.' 1 1 ^ 2 -^ ^ i ,^5 ~ 3.2 ^5 •'■ 3 i' » ;5 5c 1 to 1 -r \ 1 n to 1 • 1 I 1 1 "** 1 'O OO o , 1 1 00 to OO • ■ I 1 to "J n to ui 1 1 1 to 1 to 1 t^ lO to to % 00 1^ 3 3 M ■4 e ' — !> s i :£ n ■ 'O B c M W _■■« 3 'A 88 !<3 c » ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS, COLONIES. 93 ) «« M ^ CO 1 I r» o >o « O O o Oi ^ r* F- — CI CO « >o - I I I t I I I I I O U5 • I I I I I I I 1 n to to I I - - r~ CO I I t^ % CO e< O O CI r~t^ - - CI .> 1.0 - -■5 to to I I - t^l^ I I O ro CO O O to 1^ I- - - n - « 1.0 - <*« s 3 u C ^ » s , s 1 c ts »< M ■3 S >" 13 CI « -s— a H H r=^^-^^ -C as u a x%h -< CO ^ C^ '-5 C3 a n ca . < t U "!2 -! < > d S- " -J ti 2 SU H H U <* .' ^* *J a ' C S g S 3 .i U i5". o oom 00 I I I I 00 ^ •4- O O '•O lO s 7> CI n — ^O to - - u^ CO c« « >o « ? ? •*00 ■* I I to I O "5 WS O h» CI ^00 •* 1^ O J) -. « CI If- a 1** 1 - CI CI CI CO .- t^ r* 00 - •+ "•• I I I I O 1.0 "fl 5 C5 to to ^ I III I ill 11 III * CI •* ' ' 00 CO CO * 00 r- 00 XI CO OO 1> g III C! >/^ O 1 I iJ-tO 00 3 Of a 9 ja II II II III It III I I I I III I Id ■s 1 toto to I I I r* r>. t'* o o »o o CO CO to r* o ^ 00 t~ !>. CO '^ o o " I to III O CO CO — 00 'O to to to r^ t^- 1~. r» to 'I- t^ to CO C) « CO to to to I I 1^ r» r- O O r? CO to r^ en Th 00 1^ 1^ CO -^ O 1-0 ** toto III I^ I^ LO >o t-o CO C-S CO — CO to tot;i to to a ■M t^ I I I I .2 "5 _ - Mcr to to ^ u "! F; 7^ CO " < a — a to — -^ ■g ■*-_ a a 3 S^ 1-3 CI vN f« a •5 a I, I I e o 'o_t:>_to_ f^ cr — a S is "5 " o o t^ u ^ B o si. U u S s g-a H Q o < E o •• --J ■A X 2 5 ^ "I M 5-S o s; a o » si td < U S-S J3 4* N-3 ^ 94 APPENDrX TO REPORT FROM SELKCT COMMITTEE < P. -1 ~ TJ < ^1 H '-g -i o ^ >. a < > < z w o ml 3 " "^ S "ill S - 2 -5 3 S s a: . - t < I" of c?2 CO ■'■-30^ ," S 2 1 cs s D ■ass; 5!-= « - ' s -d 'i I I I I ws' t^ O ^O C^ 10 <44 « 00 « >*• ^ g v» ■« , . . <*4 I 00 I w CI r* O 'C -« .5 ■= J. a 5 ^5 S.2 11.. El. ; 1^115 I 1 I •+0 I I I 00 •+ W «5 O U^ d "-"^ 'H « 00 CO ^ ^ V-; " o >n ■^ 15 00 o o « O) 1 'I -a ■3 u !3 J3 le ic t*. o • o . I S « p 1^ - CO o 1-^ I-» '/5 - W 1- c >5 o -/) O 5 ^ 7F. *0 u^ r5 ^~ ' C3 C3 C3 o S 2 o H 55 ■q. o. a o t2 " ■§ .£ .Si — -5 ^ -5 ■" CI ea L. c3 aj rt O ^ '^ I ■J -„ 55?^ fS g R ■ u •s • .r H I "W ■* coo O « CI o 00 W -I « CI ■* I CO d CI rS" O "^" « - o ^* '^ d « to W COOO 00 d » r-" * ■J < j2 < 13 «» l-l H O H Si ) o -^ « o w » ■* I CO CI el 5 O « -« ,« O ' «0 O 0(0 00 I to ««00 00 1 s ■s 3 e E •A > rr 1 1 U) f- ^> u < a: cc — •«: '«' tr K 'A ■r. H S ?; »; s o o o ;j O w> ir •J < 1- O H ON MILITARY ISTAHLISIIMENTS, COLONIES. 95 ~ No. .1. — DISTRIBUTION of the Trooi's serving in .Veit- South IVales and Van Diemen's Laud, on the I8t Mny 1834. Sydney - - Longbottoni Puriunattii Liverpool George's River Bnnn-boiig - Windsor - - Maitlaml - - Newcastle Port Ste|)hens Emu Plains Spring Wood ■Weather Board Cox's Uiver - Batluirst - - Port Macquairie - - Moreton Bay - - - Norfolk Island - - - In charge of Civil Power In solitary confinement Servants to Officers Mounted Police Van Diemen's Land and Swan River - - - 4ih Foot 17th ditto ■ jth ditto I7tli ditto 17111 ditto 50th ditto 5olh ditto 17th ditto 17th ditto 17th ditto l7tli ditto l7tli ditto i7tli ditto I7tli ditto 17111 ilitto I7tli ditto 4th ditto 17tli ditto 1-th ditto 17111 ditto 4tli ditto yOtli ditto 4tli ditto I7tli ditto •21st ditto 4tli ditto ilst ditto 50tli ditto 4tii ditto I7tli ditto ■21st ditto 4th ditto 17th ditto 5()tli ditto r 4tll ditto ) l7tli ditto V:ist ditto l^uth ditto 505 Rank and File. 1 215 4 14 20 1-2 19 3H 13 Co 1 1 79 44 — 33 — Ho — 131 13 2 Corps iu India o3 48 5 1 1 7 12 ,133 Rank and File. But as the whole of the ^olh must have joined since date of Return, tlie entire Force, including N. C. Ollicers, is now -2,804. Colonial Ofhec, 19 March 1835. J 473. N4 9(5 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SELECT COMMITTEE — No. 4. — RETUllN of the Numbers ami Distribution of the ErcFCTivr. Iouce, OrricERs, Non-commis- moKED Offickhs, and Hank and File, of the Hritish Army in the several Colonies, according to the latest Returns received, including Colonial Corps, and Artillery and Engineers, Officer! PrrMiit, or on Deliched Dul^ «t the Stition. a 1 a S T A T I N S. 1 - II 1 ill U 1 J i 3 i ij 1 It 1 1 ( Gibraltar . . - 1 7 3 30 48 20 .'> 5 4 4 8 l(i8 ^u 2,804 Malta Ionian Islands 1 5 3 2(i 37 39 40 >3 34 5 4 5 5 5 6 5 6 5 158 iKR 52 «5 9 38 2.47 9 3,047 493 1.757 West Coast of Africa - Cepe of Good Hope - — a 4 4 90 5 3> 4 13 2 4 4 1 4 1 3 23 no Mauritius - . . - b 4 33 ^ 30 lO 3 3 3 4 ^ 127 43 3,030 Cej'lon ... - 7 5 37 bS 23 3 4 4 ,1 U 274 78 3.88C 2.133 2,036 276 3,408 New Si)uth Wales, iic. - 3 (j 93 33 31 3 3 3 3 5 iif) 17 Nova Scotia, A;c. Newfoundland • 4 1 2 23 3 3« 7 10 3 4 3 4 a 4 1 132 'I Canada ... I 7 5 33 4> '9 4 5 5 4 7 159 50 llermuila ... - s 1 9 13 3 - I 1 - 3 3« ■4 G13 Janiaicu ... - 5 5 35 52 lb 5 (i (j 4 G "77 60 '-,837 Honduras ... - - 1 1 4 3 - - . 1 30 5 13 338 450 Bahamas - . - - 1 - 3 6 4 I _ 1 I _ 34 Vindward and Leeward\ Colonies - - -J 6 58 C5 ' la 33 9 11 10 10 n 340 20C8 >03 071 5,530 Total - - 4 64 55 3C1 5'5 225 47 55 5G 52 7' 33,117 Adjutant General's Office.l 20 March 1835. J John Macmmuld, Adjutant-General. 1' I — No. 5. — DISTRIBUTION of '.he Tnoors serving in Hwa ficolia and its Dependencies, according to the latest Returns. STATIONS. "I! Halifa.v, &c. . Annapolis Fort Cumberland Frederictowu - St. .lolin, New Bruns- 1 wick - - - Y St. Andrew's, Ditto -■{ ' Cape Breton - J Prince Edward's is- j land - - . "l Newfoundland REGIMKNTS. I O Royal Artillery Rovnl Engineers, &c S.'.il I'liot 9Gtli Foot Rifli' Brigade, 1st bt" Kovnl Artillery 83d Foot Hoyal .'\rtillery Royal Artillery 34tli Foot Royal Artillery Itoyal Engineers 34th Foot Royal Artillery :t4th loot Royal Artillery 8,jd Foot lloyal .Artillery 83d Foot I Total . - f Royal .Artillery ; RdUil nii^iiift.'i.s I ' New foundland Veterans G 3 7 10 G 3 3 31 •i'J 30 I 3 I I ly 1 11 1 7 23 - i 1 1 - i 3 48 1 132 13 _, TOTAL i iltanLamlFile, 43 I 203( Adjutant-tiencral'N Office,"! 20 .March 183J. j Juhn Mac'loiiuld, Adjutant-General. ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS, COLONIES. 97 a, 80 4 3,047 493 1,757 2,030 3,88(i «-i33 2,036 376 3,408 C13 3,837 338 450 — N0.6.— DISTRIBUTION of the Troops tt Bermuda on the lit January 183J, the Date of the lateit Iteturn received. STATIONS. St. George'a Ireland Island Ferry Gibbi Hi.I Mount I.angton Fort Cunningham Hen Island Fort George - COR pa. Royal Artillery . - - Royal Sappers and Miners - 30th Foot - . - - Royal Sappers and Miners - 30th Foot - - - - 30th Foot . • • - 30th Foot - - - - 30th Foot . - - " Royal Artillery - Royal Artillery - Royal Artillery - 30th Foot . - - 1 1 I - Total 4t 1 60 37 350 44 98 4 3 10 1 1 1 4 9 »5 4 36 H 613 Adjuunt-General's Onice,\ 30 March 1835. J John Macdonald, Adjutant-Genoral. — No. 7- — DISTRIBUTION of the Thoofs at M«/ouwd/<;«rf on the .»t February .835. the Date of the latest Return received. STATIONS. CORPS. E t -a 1 1 J 1 s 2 s CO 1 3 s 1 •■a a 1 St. John'i Royal Artillery ' • Royal Engineers itoyal Newfoundland Vete-1 ran Companies • -J Total - - 1 2 I 1 8 1 3 >3 3 6 53 223 1 3 10 1 16 8 376 Adjutant-General's Office,"! 30 March 183.5. J John Macdonald, Adjutant^General. 473- , ■ II 'i-fii fi . m^i >' . ' lli- l J -^ ' '- ' W^f tf ' SPt^l'! '> jf'M - ^4S^:iV!^.fmm - ^ 'r ^v^: Arf. - T ; ' ''^ ft8 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SEI.RCT COMMfTTEE I' i>59 10 131 1 a '.) 411 a 4«3 35a "i) 4 a 1 S3 «J*J 5 3U7 U 8 364 3 a 3 41; I 41) 40 •j,408 John MiicilunalJ, Adjutant-General. A c f ■fl Q 9 1 1 131 - 1 - 5 10 411 - 9 8 4«3 - •1 9 35a - — 1 Ci) - 50 •" 5 - 4 - 1 - 1 - — - S3 3 ;emenU required for the providing of pro- visions nnU' " dislrilmtion" of the troops servinq; in New South Wales (which has been olitiiined i'roin the n(l)ut«iii-H(!iiorui's ollico), shows llrit besides the force m Sydney, there me delaclimeiits of the mililaiy at 17 ditfcrent stauons, some of ilieso at very con- sidfnil)lc other, the labour ot l.rovidiiiL' ofsupplvinLsand of accountiir; for li.e commissariat services of each necessarily reipiires a lar|^er es'tablisiimeiil for the performance of such increased duties. For instance in Gibraltar, where there were 3,iK8 military to be supplied, the number of officers and clerks e.iiploved in the commissariat is six. with eight subordinate persons (independently of the bakinu; and transport establishments), at an expense of 2,170/. per a mum whiUt in Nova Scotia (includin.^ New Rrunswick), where there were only 2,,6. militarv and where there are several sub-stations, the number ot olHcers and clerks is U, with -^'subordinates, at a charge of about 3,990/. per annum. It m IV be fair to assume that if the ont-slations in New South Wales were not more mine ous than the o-it-.talions in Nova Scofa. and that the duties of the commissariat "". unconnected with the convict service, the charge for the commissariat would not be ere t"r than the chai-e for NovaSeolia; in which case the diterence would be about ! 7 / ss I, r annum; or. if the military force in New South Wales, taking it at 1,593, tMetcemr\t".l within a mo.lerate distance, as is the case with the troops at Gibraltar. The cEe for the commissariat establishment would be still less, the reduction would then be about 6.000/. This is calculating upon the establishment as it existed in New South Wales in the «„.!r H .^ a' exhihiTcd in the return submitted to the Committee. Since that period con- JiderabKuc'ioi' h..ve been ertected lu the commissariat establishment, to the extent of about a,ooo/. per annum. T. ArcUr. Unthurat, isOroilet. Maittsnd, 127. Newcmtle, 13a. Port Macquarie, ort.iiit With ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS, COLONIES. 101 With respect to the discontinuance of the military chests, my Loids are not only of Tr»a»urv Letter opinion (as they have already stated in former communications), that the chests established respecting Comiuis- at the out-stations, including that at Paramatta, are unnecessary, but they also think laris* Arraoge- that a very beneficial chani:e may be made in the present system of carrying on the pecu- ipenta. niary concerns of the commissariat at Sydney, by transferring the funds now kept in the __— _ military chests to the two banks eslabli«lied ihere, and by employing these banks in the receipt and payment of commissariat monies. The statement given in Lieutenant-genii-al Parting's letter of the 26th July 1831, addressed to Lord Goderich, and which his Lord- ship has communicated to this lioard, of the constitution and resource^) of these banking establishments, aupears to my Lords to be sufficiently satisfactory to warrant them in con- sidering that the oalances of public money would be quite secure in their custody, and the proposed change would not only be productive of a considerable reduction in the number of persons now engaged exclusively in the duties of the military chest, but would diminish the risk of loss to which the deposit of large sums in charge of individuals is always liable, and would operate as a useful check upon the commissariat accounts by a comparison of the bank accounts with those of the public accountant. My Lords are therefore pleased to desire you will proceed to carry the measures pro- posed into effect as quickly as possible, by entering into the necessary communications with the managing directors of the said banks upon the subject, and by directing the deputy commissary-general, as soon as the preliminary arrangements shall have n°en settled, to pay into the banks to an account to be opened in his name, all the monies remaining in his chests, depositing with each bank a raoiety or such other proportion of money as may be judged to be most expedient, and taking care afterwards so to regulate the deposits thai the proper proportions be kept up in each bank, and that the average amount of the whole does not exceed what is required for about one month's expenditure. When the transfer of these funds to the banks shall have taken place, my Lords are of opinion that all commissariat payments at Sydney should be made by cheques upon the banks to the order of the respective claimants, with the exception of those only which are usually or most conveniently made upon pay lists, such as pay and allowances of the staff and departments, the pay of artificers, labourers, &c. ; in which cases the cheques should be drawn in favour of the officer of the commissariat department who may be specially deputed, under the responsibility of the chief officer in charge, to distribute among the parties named in the pay lists the respective sums due, care being had that such distribution be made the same day in which the money is withdrawn for that purpose from the bank. I'he cheques should be signed by the officer at the head of the department, ond invariably countersigned by the officer next in rank in attendance at the commissariat office ; those in each of the banks should be numbered in separate series, the series to be renewed on the first day of the year. An abstract of the account with each bank, describing the several balances, receipts and payments, signed by the cashier, should be furnished to the commissary at the coni.lusion of each month, and be attached to the accounts of the latter, with the view of enabling the commissioners of audit to compare the same with the receipts and payments as they are entered in those accounts. In all (mses where it may be practicable, the siib-accoiintants at the out-stations should be directed to make their payments by drafts on the chief officer at Sydney, who will dis- charge such drafts by cheques upon the banks ; and they are only to be supplied with such small sums o*' money, withorawn for the purpose from the bank, as may be necessary for payments which cannot be conveniently made except in cash. VVhen the commissary has to receive money, he will furnish the party makinu; the payment with an order to one of the banks to receive the same, rind afterwards give the usual receipt for the amount in exchange for the 'jank's acknowledgment of tho dtpnsit; and which acknowledgment lie will add to the 'oucher in his accounts. The sarai; rule be observed in 'he exchange of bills on the Treasury ; the bill, however, being in this case delivered to the purchaser in lieu of the commissary's receipt. The purchasers of the bills wi'l of course be at liberty to make the payment into the bank either in specie or paper-money, conformably with the ordinary practice of the banks and the general com- mercial business of the colony ; and it may be expected that this facility will eventually lead to some improvement in the terms in which Treasury bills have hitherto been nego- tiated. Until, however, thnre shall appear to be a permanent prospect of an increase in the demand for bills, so as to be likely to produce an accumulation of army funCs beyond the amounts which it may be proper to deposit in the banks, my Lords approve of the commissary continuing to act upon the present system of granting bills at the fixed Ereminmof one and a half per cent.; but in tht event of such prospect presenting itself, e must endeavour to procure a higher rate of premium by recurring to the ordinary com- missariat mode of raising the necessary supplies of money, by advertising for tenders, and accepting only such sums as he may require, and may be offered on the most advantageous terms. Upon the last remaininjj point above adverted to, viz. 'he examination of tlie sub-accounts in the oftice of the deputy commissary-general, my Lords entirely concur with the Board of Inquiry in considering tne extent and minuteness to which that examination has been carried by Mr. Laidley to be quite superfluous. it may be proper that the accounts 01' ^o cxtcndet! and di-^tant a station shc-Uiu linurFgo some revision in his office, previously to neir being delivered to the commissary of ac- counts, by whom they are dispatched for final audit at home ; but it must be obvious that the detailed examination which Mr. Laidley has gi'en to them, would render their subse- quent evaminntion in the office of the commissary of accounts quite unnecessary. My Lords are uUo ol opinion, that Mr. La.dley has acted under a misapprehension re- 473. " 3 specting ■;A^>aw«*fi*s«»i.M 102 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SELECT COMMITTEE Treasury Letter respecting Commis' sariat Arrange- ments. ! t .i l« \ spccting the degree of responsibility to which he is liable a^' regards these sub-accounts. It was not their Lordships' object in requiring tho principal accountant, at each foreign (■tation, to attest his accounts, that he should be held responsible for the perfect accuracy of every minute detail in the accounts, but only for his belief in their general truth and correctness, after a due exercise of that superintendence and control over the conduct of the officers under him, and the ofBcers of his department, which the duty of every chief officer in the commissariat requires from him; and it is in this sense, as ray Lords believe, that all other officers in charge at foreign stations have attested their accounts. While, therefore, my Lords appreciaie Mr. Laidley's scruples upon this point, thay enter- tain no doubt that when the limited object and extent of the attestation shall have been explained to him, he will no Ioniser feel any difficulty in conforming to it, without going through the minute process of previot>s examination, and that a very considerable reduc- tion may thereupon take place in that branch of his office which is now exclusively engaged in the above duty. My Lords observe that nine persons were thus employed at the date of the report of the Board of Inquiry ; and the Board expressed their opinion, that under certain alterations suggested by them, that number might bo reduced to four. As, however, the additional measures which my Lords havn now in view for the abolition of the depot of stores and of the military chests, will greatly abridge and simplify the cash and store accounts, and diminish labour, my Lords are of opinion, that the reduction of numbers in tlie examining branch of Mr. Laidley's office may oe carried further than was suggested by the Board of Inquiry, and that lor the future two efficient persons will be (luite sufficient for that duty. At the same time, their Lordships agree in opinion with the Board of Inquiry that the pre- sent system of examination in Mr. Laidley's office cannot safely be disjjcnsed with except the department of accounts be in such a state of efficiency as to enable it promptly to pro- ceed in the examination of the accounts as soon as they are delivered in, and eliectually to prevent any of its duties from running intoarrear; and their Lordships are bound to admit that the report of the Board of Inquiry, confirmed Ly the information they have received from persons practically conversant with the details of the department, and their own expe- rience of the arrears which have been accumulating since its presentestablishment was fixed in 1830, have satisfied their minds, that with its present limited number of six officers, it is not adequate to effect all its im])ortant objects, My Lords are therefore pleaied to give their sanction to the appointment of two additional officers or clerks to the account department ; and they concur with the Board of Inquiry in their suggestion that it should not be en- cumbere« « -< •0 9i>r> ' • 8. n 1 1 . . 1 « 1 1 II . . « to ' ' ' " 1 1 . . 1 g 1 . 1 . . . 1 . . g 3 1 1.1 . . t 1 •6c8i •»{[ H 'ajois ui 3__. 2§2'' '•' ■'"S" 1 I.SSS" ■ '''co5 "IVIOJ. 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I • "A , , 05» l^» l^l,H> • 't-i* CO o* I I I I I I I f I I I I I I I I I I I I I I t I I I I I ^ I I I I I I I I I t t I I I I I I I I I I ■ I I I I I I I I I I I I I t I I t t I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I ) I I I I I I I I « i-< o* ' • ?!5 • ' ' S"" I I I I I I I I I io8 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SCLCCT COMMITTEE < V. u a piiii|8iK| uiojj puinl»>| |S|g-g»F,£ g.2||| g| . 25.5555 ■tRgl jnj i(H0|0;) ,H|| tuojj po.nnl>d)[ I (.'HI I'll' ol.'B I JOj »|q»[!«»« imo.i, '6r.B> J0| ooiii8intK)}r DO ■jno in|DMx:( •gcBi J") vuo|i -uinlw)! 110 ~ ' "%J * i» i5 S 'iS."-. Ill \fi " "f 00 ^ 'O i o -t 3 a « I (• ci S .5 .2 ' 2 1 1" . 1 I I I I t I I I I I I ■ '•III •"i i a 5 5 2 s ' -tJS 1 ? 1 SSS5 ' ' o r? 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ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS, COLONIES. »15 25; III I owo I i I I • I I ( I I I t I t t I I I I t I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I t I I I I I I I I I I I i I I t I I I I I I I I " I I I t • 11(1 I I I I I I I I I I I t I I I I I I I I 1 I I I I I I I .1 .-*",.■■ I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I t -^ I I I I I I I I I gocooooc*^^^*^5ei CO CI W "rt O lO o o '^ (O Q o o* n r^ I I I t I I t I t I I I I I I I I 1 I I 1 o I t I I > I ' ■ * * I 8 I I llltlililtitil'g 'J'g :5>i I I I I I I I I I t 1 I §,i'^gl,,gl,il i • lllillllillfi , , . , ;g I ;:,' , I , > I I • ^ ' * • ift ' ' * CM ■«=^Sl.lll.ll. I N , , W U5 • ^s •§ '15 'g; . I I I I t I I I I I < < I I • I till . 5 ^ ' I I I I t I I I I t • I gi2.S5§?;,^^S.s:=''.*SS'' < I I I I I I I I I I I I i:s§ = -2S'S'2''S^' • •'^.«s§ ' -»-S ■il ■ I I > ■ > I I I I I I I I I t I 4 I I I I I ' I I I I I t I I C •^ ti o Ji o s H 13 5 ' '1 ! !■£; , i 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Miri 'I 5 i^ S § k ^' I , --■si ©1 2,000 cT % ' I® ■1 1 • 1 s o 1 1 1 r CO ss^^s oT H -^ s ; is « " \ ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS, COLONIES. 8 2 ,S ?. CO c* -^ ? ? 82 •^ 'O n to c» -i ■* -* -«!• O 'I O* C* ^O , e* , , , , r- 8 , « o h- t I II C(« , , « , 1.1 C» 'O -* ' ^ ' ' « 'O *i*'"" u8 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SELECT COMMITTEE Difference between tliecure of Convicts and Soldiers, V 9; — No. 12. — Proportional DiFrEBENCE between the Cnre of 4,800 Convicts, and the Care of as many Soldiers. In reference to the (luestion of tiie Committee regarding Jie proportional diflFerence between (he eiire »f 4,800 convicts, and the care of as many soldiers, I beg to explain, that to conduct the duties of a convict eslahlishment, such as that at New South Wales, a larger commissiiriat department is requisite than would be the case if the convicts were to be entirely replaced by troops to an equal extent, because the circuinslnnces which render expedient the present diversified and widely extended system of locating the convicts, so as to meet the views of transportation, could not bo applicable to a military force. The paper already submitted to the Committee will have explained that the systetn of location is the primary cause of multiplying the commissariat duties so much in New South Wales. It therefore remains to be shown that, even if the convicts vvere more concentrated, those duties must still be more arduous than would be consequetit on a military force similarly situated. There is not any part of the duly which the commissariat have to perform for troops that is not necessary tor the convicts "also, and that to a tnuch greater extent, the rations of the latter being of a more varied and complicated character, while the labour and respon- sibility of distributing and accounting for them rest more with the cointnissariat than in the case of troops with whom there is a quartermaster and others better qualified for such details than the convict superintendents and overseers, who are not calculated for such service. The same facility of check on the issue of rations does not exist as in a regiment, so that much of the important duty of mustering convicts, and other means by which an undue expenditure can be prevented, rests likewise with the commissariat. The service too is far from being so regular and simple, particularly with regard to ll.e cash transactions, for, while in the one case money is generally imprested to a responsible officer, by whom it is disbursed and accounted for in detail; in the other case, the com- missariat ofiicers must be charged with all this extra responsibility, an addition which, of course, is attended with corresponding arrangements in every branch of the department. But independently of such duties as the commissariat have to pertorm for the troops, there are others which necessarily arise in the case of convicts ; nainelv, the receipts, custooy and appropriation of tlie proceeds of their labour, both with regard to mechanics and agriculturists ; the providing and supplying all stores, tools and implements necessary to this purpose, and more especially the clothing of the convicts, a very ccmsiderable branch in itself, the materials to a great extent being procured, made up, aiul afterwards distri- buted under the superintendence of the commissariat. It would he almost impossible, without a practical experiment, to state with any degree of accuracy the ditl'crence between the expense of a commissariat establishment for con- victs and one for an e(|Ual number of troops ; but these remarks may serve to show that a considerable dilTereiice would exist, and that such dillereiice would greatly preponderate in the case of convicts. T. Archer. Coiresponiiince respectiiij! Kxauiii,- ation cl Aifcar Arrouiils. — No. 13. — CORKliSi'ONDKy Jt" respecting Examination of Arbp.au Accounts. /'"' Comniiss.iriat of Accounts, Sydney, () September 1833. llAviNfi received from the Hil'Iu Honourable the Lords Commissioners of His Majes- ty s '1 rea»ui y a copy of the letter addressed Sy their Loi(Uliip' ;o His Exeilleiicy the Major- general, <()iiiiiiiiii(lin^;, imdci date of ;jd December lH;j2, in which the state of the depart- ment ol the Coinmijsarlal of Accoiiiil.', is commented upon, 1 have the honour to submit some iniiiirks and iiifoni...tion mi the several subjects, with the view of aidin" his Excel- leiiiy in carrying into ell.et the measures dincled by their Lordsliijis. " My Lords huviiig given their sanction to the appointment of t«o additional odicers or clerks to the aeconnt deparlintiit, to be employed in its perinaiieni current jiMlies ; this has been accomplished by two de|)Uty-assistanl comuiissanes-s'eiieral beiiii: reccnllv attached thereto. e> j My Lords further proceed to express their desire that certain arrcar accounts of the commissariat, embracing llie pro\ision and store iraiis.iclions for the period between 25lh Decenihcr 1828 and jjth D.ceniher iS:}0, which liave hicii left unexamined by the account departmcii, and the original sets so sent to Liiglaiid, shouhl now und.'rgo ati examination here by a st palate eslabluhmenl, under the superinleiideiice of the oHicer in charge or the acconni di |iaiimciit, leaving the appointment of the iiiiinher of persons, and mode oj remuiK ration lor ili.ir services, uiulcr various suiigeslioiis, for the d-nision of his J'.xeellency. I'rior to olfiring my opinion on the mode of carrying these ohiecis into eti'ect, I must lug leave to eontess thai, aflii receipt ot their Lordsbiiis' ei.ininumcalion. ! was for some iiiiie in doubt whether the instruction was defiiiiiive, ami ilierefoie delayed addressing his hxccllency oil the subject. A letier receiiily reeeiv.d by me (10m their Lofi'8h>p» has, however, reiiioV( d any douhl I might hav.- eiitcMaim d thereon. I think niNsdt <(.riect in assuming it as (iiiile ceitain, from the tenor of the report of the iii(|uiiy into the siati> of tli eommissaiiat olFices in S\dney, as (|ui(ted in their Lordsliiiis" ietiti, that a very (onsiderabli; progress must have been made in the cxiiinniiinii of the ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS, COLONIES. 119 I the Care of a« nrrenr nccoiints in qiicsiion, inasmuch as tlie extent and minuteness, and the detail of such CorresunnHence exnniiniitiun are parliimhiriy adverted to, as also ihal the branch of the commissariat office lespeciing Kxami- exchisively engaged in that duty consisted of nine persons. I must, tliereforc, request tiiat nation of Arrear his Excellency will he pleased to give directions to Deputy Commissary-geiierid Laidley to Accounts. hand over to me, with the duplicate accounts, all the proceedings, either in the nature of observations, reports or otherwise, which have taken place in the course of that examina- tion, as well as to give me information as to what point generally, and up to what period the accounts iiuve been so examined. I think thai such examination may be a^ safely relied upon as any wiiich could now be given by an office formed at this time under my superintendence, not only because I fear I shall have much difficulty in forming an efficient establishment for the purpose, but also because much time and labour would be saved, and consequently expense abridged thereby. Although L may expect that the work remaining to be done will be lessened by my being put in possession of the information above required, I am nevertheless of opinion, that it is very desirable tliat this long delayed business should be speedily dispatched, and would therefore submit that four persons should be engaged for the duty. It will not be possible for me to give his Excellency a iuch an examination as shall satisfy the intentions of their Lordships and secure my own responsibility. From experience I have found that the examination of the provision accounts ot' the station has fully occupied the time of one steady practised clerk during four or five months, to get throiigh oncquarter's accounts; 1 may, tliereforc, infer tha'. taking into account the less minute examination required for the two years' arrear of provision accounts on the one hand, and the inexperience of the persons likely to he found for the service in the other, that it must occupy three clerks for one year on their exuminaticn, while there is also an arrear of twi* years' dry store accounts to be examined. As to the mode of remuneration for the services of the persons to be employed, I must beg leave to refer his Excellency to the suggestions of my Lords on that point, having to remark that 1 think there will be much difficulty in fixing u remuneration wiili reference to the work done, as it might lead to an inefleciual execution of the work, nor do 1 see how the amount of remuneration could be fixecl upon that plan. I have, 8tc. Captain Hunter, Assistant Military Secretary. (signed) William Ilat/nard, Assistant Commissary of Accounts. Military Secretary's Office, Sydney, Sir, 21 Sept. 1833. 1 iiAVK the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your letter dated 6th instant, respecting the examination of certain arrear accounts of the commissariat, and to request you will be pleased to acquaint me, for the information of tlie Major-general commaiidiiig, with the daily rale of pay usually issued here to clerks capi.tile oi' performing the v.oik now under consideration. If it would take four such clerks one year 10 finish, some notion may be formed of ihe loial expense to be incurred. I have further lv> request yu will he pleased to state whether you can rccounncnd clerks for this business, which should be undertaken without further delay. 1 have, &c. Willia.n llayward, Esq. (signed) William Hunter, 8i,c. Sic. &c. Assistant Military Secretary. Commissariat of Accounts, Sydney, Sir, 3 October, 1833. I WAS honoured in due course with your letter of the -iist September, desiring to be acquainted, for the information of his Excellency the Major-general commanding, with the daily rate of pav usually issued here to clerks capable of the examinalion of the accounts lately directed by the Treasury to be examined here, as also whether I can recommend competent clerks for this business. The first point may be satisfied by stating that the ratesofpny established for temporary clerks in the commissariat in this command, are to Clerks of isi class i. 170 per annum. — 2d — 140 — — 3d — 110 — 1 consider clerks capable of performing the duties in question fully deserving of the hidiest ra'c of salary, but as in the pioijress of the work to be done, some of secondary inmonaiicc, such as copyini:. &c. must occur, one clerk might be placed ou the establish- uieiit at a lower rate of salary ; considering also that ilie employii.eiit of lhe,e persons would be only temporary, it may be doubled whether any could be engaged at the lowest rate. 47:i- «J4 120 APPENDIX TO REPORT FROM SELECT COMMHTEE } ■ i \ ?Ze7ZEZn. ■ " ""'"^' '" r"' 'r°"'' ''""^'T- ' '"*^^ '^^ '"'"'"" '" «"»'«' 'hat alihongl, the Treasury nat^n Xea • TTZ " T'^^""'"" "^ l*^" ''°'} "'«'" coMsiden.tion has been well known lee Accounts. """' full three months I was not able to fix upon persons compclent for the duty, nor ,1 d "■'3'. '"^••^ "."'■'■ tbeinse veg but as was unwilling to answer hastily to the point, ,„,| hei ! tlesirous of laying belore h>s Excellency the results of mature and special inquiry, I 1 ave as mlormluioT''""'"' ^^^ communicating to you thereon until I could collect furtl.er It n.ight have been expected that from amongst the individuals discharsed from the couimtssarmt on the reductions of tl at department, some competent persons milume been selected, bur some have left ...is place or have found othlr en^4ements, tt uV | ' U . '^ M "'.' \'" "' '''"'' •''*^>»T' ' '""^ fi"^'' ""'y 'subordinate situations, and ,1' e IS but one Mr lodhunter, now offered to me, who is said to he in every way c. mpetent ami qual.hed. but unlortunately he has other profitable en.ployn.ent, and inf.,ims Z , although very desirous of engaging for the service in question, he could not de "ofe I e whole ot h.s time to it; the interruptions to which his work would be liable, and the ditK- cul y o fixing a remuneration for the time bestowed on the duty, may probably be viewed by his Lxcellency as impediments to his appointment. J J i j clJ^k"j!7ST"\ I"".'''''"! '"^';i'""'='^,'° ■"« H8 competent : Mr. Paget, now commandant's clerk at ^or^olk lsla.,d, is I understand about to leave that situation; and as he has served for many years in the commissariat, it is to be expected that he is acquainted with the Two other gentlemen have offered themselves, and are very respectably recommended as and^iLm '":;";' h -''"''^T' ''l' ""r '"'" "^"r'y ""-'r'""'-' -"> commissar. tSair "he dmy reiu'ired '^ '"" """^ *""''* ^^ '"'' ""^'y i" 'caching them nrnVnfr "''""'^ 'T l^'" ^"''1'^"''!'^ ''''■">''' '''at his Excellencv may be made aware of the probable expense o the establishment, and the .lifiiculties likely to be experienced in (Vl- Si2ut"':'"'V'"'""'""'^ "'■ ^'"-' '^'""''"y- '"' ^'^t'--«' intl.eirlet,rr;Ls"ecii.tie i.t^p nance ot seleeli.ig competent persons tor the business. It is quite clear, that totorm due. led by a lespoiiMble and practised head, and one ■.vh„ could with pruden.-e and ludii- uient conduct such an exaimnalion as is desired by their Lordships, lor I think it wcmid not be possib.e lor me to give it that htling atleiuioi. in those particulars which it would requ„,v^o,„„|,,„,^ ,h..,,,,vy duties of my present olliee, « hull their Lordsliips were awa e of wlRi, they sanctioned an increase to the department, considering also that the new office Usel must be remote lo.n im, as Here is no room in my olhce for its aeeomniodation. I have 10 add, .hat I now learn that the aeeo.inis under view are much more voluminous han i had contemplated 1,1 tunning my eM.maie of the time it might take to exam., c ti.eni, and it appears likely that the examination would require t8 montt.s «^^""""'- Captain Iluiiier, Assistant Military Secretary. I have, &c. (signed) h'i/liam Haijward, Assistant Commissary of Accounts. „ Commissariat of Accounts, Sydney, New South Wales. ®"^' December 1833. Ai.vERTiNo to your letter to n,e. of 24 December 1832, with its enclosure dated .1 Deccnber, .0 .he oflicer commanding i., this colony, and w.,h respect to t'hen- s.ruc.ions there,,, given for the formation of an establishment for .he exa , im.,i„ f , "- am provision and s.orc accounts ot the con.inissaiiat, 1 have the honour to inC, r vou hat this subject has en^-aged ,„y serious a..entio„, ami i.i consequence of the diU e It r I ...av in tnith say. the n.tei imprac.icabili.y hitherto experience.! in forming any fit es a. ishmeiit .r -he purpose. I an. induced now to rep.'.rt. for the informatio'n <,l^i,e Kigh lono.irabl.. ,h,. I.or.ls Coinmissioners ..fllis Majesty's Treasury, the steps that have been taken towards the furtherance of this ol.iect. ' The enclosed .■opies of my letters to the Military Secretary of 6 Septen.ber an.l -x October ..'; and'.'in ,''"b r'l'' "■'"""-■'-' '"' ,- """-"'"R " •"•^^•-l "f "-■'I.e.. stale of'the £1- n.ss, and of the obstacles ex , ing to the formation of the branch olliee; nothing has since o.c„ried to remove or .hminish those obstacles, altlu.ugh I have .nade ..Vergil., Z am .nno.in.,.e,l my rea. nu-ss ,0 receive applications. The^chi..f .liffieiih,,. eonsL ,!. holding usn.s Mich as hrving so.ne experi..|,ce in accounts of the nature under view, could 1, n '■,'1 V"">""'"' '" ! "■"■ fxaminaiion; for I think that a gi.-at waste of time, nii.l t n. uen.ly ot .»..„..>•, would ensu.; from .he .mployment of persons totally unacq.iainte.l 1. . 1 r ','"'. . ^•"'■""'-^''f.-'t •-.'•■.ir^ and accounts, who must first he instructed ... the duty without which no reliance couhl be plae.d on their ex-cniion ..f H,.. »,.rU- v.., „,v Lords obje(;i to the en.ployme.i. of any one who may have been personally co..cJn.ed iii any ot the ira.isac. ions to which the aeeoiai.sr..'late. I now, however, learn that D.puly C.m.inissary-gcncial Luidl.'v has it 11. .onlen.pla.ion 10 make.ome reducl.on ,a anangenicls in his liepa.l.i.ent about the close of the ye,., , .1,,< rEE ON MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS, COLONIES. 131 igl) the Treasury well known lieic e duty, nor did |ioiiil, luid heiiij; quiry, I liavf, as I collect turtlier liarged from the sns might have ents, though Ijy ilions, and there way competent informs me that 1 not devote the e, and the ditH- jubly be viewed I commandant's 3 he has served lainted with the , nor what may ?com mended as nissariat ufl'air!) I teaching theiii le aware of the erienced in ful- r respecting the ir, that to form formed of com- ietail should he encc and judg- ik it iviiuld not iiich it would lips were aware the new olliec imodation. jre voluminous ike to exam i tie card, )f Accounts. South Wales, L'losure, dalfd ct to the in- itiation of eer- inform vou ie dirticulties, rilling any fit mation ol the eps that have nid 3 October ' of the busi- lint; has since 1 inquiry, and St in linding •r view, could ; of time, and unacquainted :riiKted in the ork ■ yet my concerned in this may probably furnish an opportunity of engaging some competent persons, or at least Correspondence some one capable of directing the routine and detail of the duties ; I will have the honour respecting I'^xanii- to report further hereupon at the earliest period. nation of Arrenr I have, 8cc. The Secretary to the Uiglit lion, the (signed) William Uaijward, Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury. Assistant Commissary of Accounts. Accounts. Comnissariat of Accounts, Sydney, New Sonih Wales, Sir, '2'2 March 1834. I HAD tlie honour to address you on die 6tli December last, by letter, on the sub- ject of tlic formation of an olfice for the examination of the arrcar accounts of the commissariat at this station, ami stated that Deputy Cnminissary-iiencrul Laidlcy had it then in contemplation to make sniiie reductions in his department; those reductions being about to be carried inlo cftVcl, I found that I could make the selection of Deputy-assist- ant Commissaiy-ge .ral iJaldy only for the service proposed, and accordingly applied to his Excellency the Major-general eoininanding for his sanction to the tiansferot the pre- sent services of Mr. Halily from the 1st instant, from which day Mr. Laidlcy consented to dispense with him. Having obtained his Excellency's approval lo this measure, I have appointed Mr. Baldy 10 the examination of the completed sets of the dry store accounts rendered by Deputy-assistant Commissary-general Kennedy, which is all that can now be undertaken. Coiisideiiug that the instructions of the Higlii honourable the Lords Commissioners of His Majcstv's Treasury resi)ccting the formation of an otfiec for the examination of arrear accounts were received by iiic so long ago as June of last year, and that I have hitherto found it to be (juite impossible to form such an ollice in "this place, nolwitlislanding my best endeavours and the great aii.\icty this business has given me, I feel it to be my (July frankly to say, that I have no hope of being able lo cany their Lordships' instructions into full effect, by the formation of an office for the cxaininalion of the provision accounts, and I beg leave to assure you that 1 feel most sensibly this disappointment of their Lord ships' view.s and expectations. I have, !k.c. (signed) William Haytvard, The Secretary lo the Uiglit ILni. the Assis* Com.-gen' of Accounts. Lords Comuiissioners of His Majesty's Treasury. — Nell.— EXTRACTS of a MtNtiE of the Commissioniuis for Auditing the Public Accounts, dated y April 1835. " Toe Board are saiistied on an inspection of the statement now before them, aiui with reference to Mr. Smith's remarks, that the examiners of store and provision accounts can- not proceed with the current aeeounls, and at the same time bring up the arrears upon whieli they are now engaged ; and the Board deeming it highly iniporlanl thai the exami- nation of the current accounts should not be delayed, " Ordered, " Tiiai the examiners do immediately proceed on the accounts of the Ionian Islands, Gibraltar, Western Australia, Windward and Leeward Islands, Honduras, Siena Leone, Gambia, Canada, Nova Scotia, iNewfoundland, Bermuda, Mauritius and Cape of Good Hope, fiotu 1 April iS.u; on the New South Wales accounts from 1st Aprd '.833. " And it appearing that the Van Diemen's Land accounts for 1833 and 1834, arc not yet received, " Ofdered, ,. , . . ,. " That a letter l)e written to the conimi^sary in charge, calling his immediate attention to the dtlay. " The Boa'-d for the present suspend siviug any directions as to the examination of the accounts of \'an Diemen's Laud for the ^period to the iist December iSsi, and also as to the accounts of the Uideau Canal, and the Jamaica candle iiccount. " In ease the examiners engaged in these several accounts for current services should be jible to spare time for t-lie arrear accounts, they are lo proceed upon them as opportunities may occur; and the Board further diiecl, that on the isi November next, a statement be prepared and submitted to the Board, shi„ing the progress made in the examination of the current accounts as to each station, with a view of enabling the 15oatd to ascertain whether the examiiialioii of the accounts fur half a year has been completed within the hal! year," Audit ol' Public Accounts. I onteinplauon of the yen , tlll.4 473- Sl'ATEMENT 132 APPENDIX TO REPORT FHOM SELECT COMMITTEE Audit (,!' Public Accumitji. Statement relative to the Receipt and Aiidit of the Cash Accounts of the Commissariat in Australia, Van Diemcn's Land and Canada, for the Years 183a and 1833. COLONY. New South Wales V»83i.) Ditto (1 Jan. 1833 to 31 iVInrch 1834.) Van Diemen'8 Land (1832.) Ditto (1 Jan. 1833 to 31 March 1834.) WrsTKUK AVSTRALIA, (1 Feb. 183J to 31 Rlarcli 1833.) Ditto I One year to 31 Mar. ' J8340 L'pPF.n AND LoWKK Canada (i83'^-33.) Ditto (One year, to 31 Mar. i«34-) Dull- ufDciivtTj DateorDelivery or of AuiiuhI Account. Moutlily Accoiinti ii June 1833 At diften'iit ptriods be- tuecii 1 Jan. and 5 Oft. 1833- ic May and I 21^) Jan. and 7 Nov. 1834 ; 11 Dee. 1834 UAIE of A u u I r. ■J 8 April 1835 4 July 1833 1 April and 8 Oct. 1833. 7 .June and 25 February (i Oct. 1834. and 30 iSrpt. 1834. FIUST ACCOVNl. if) May 1833 10 July 1834. lo.luly 1834, and 13 Oct. 1834. 8 A]iril and 15 October 183;!. ■i July 1834 1 Jan. and 7 Nov. 1833. 7 Nov. 1833, and 3u Sept, 1834. •2 0ct. 183J, and 3 Dec. 1833- 3 .Inn. 1834, and 1 Oct. 1834- iCt Nov. 1 834 UKMAIIKS. - - Examination conipleteii in April 183,5. (Queries sent be- tween Auj^nst 1834 and May 1835, none of wliieli are an- sHercd. - - Examination completed in January 1834. Answers to (jueries received (1 July 1835. Ready for audit. - - Examination conipleled in February 1035. (Jueries sent between Au;{ust 1834 and March 1835, the greater part of H hich remain unanswered. - - Examination completed in March 1834. -Answers to que- ries received in June iHsn- Account preparing; for audit. - - I'.xamination comi)leted in April 1835. Queries sent be- tween .luiie 1834 and April 1 83,"i, the greater pari of w hicli remain ummswered. - - Kxnmination completed on 2;7 May 183,5. Queries settled undready liiraecountaiit. .State of account nearly reaiiv for audit, it not beinj; nece"ssary to await tlu-answirs 10 (jue'- ries. Statk.miat relative to the ;!teei|)t and .Auilit of the Store Accounts of the Commissarial in Australia, Van Diemen's Land and Canada, for the Years 183J and 1833. CO 1.(1 \ \ i PKRion OK ACCOUNT. I New South Wai.is - (1 Jan. 1832 to 31 March 1833.) i Ditto - - - I (1 April 1833 to 28 I Fehrniuy 1834.) I Dm,- oi i)i'liMr,v..f il.i- i(.vii;il i'triinliciil, 01 thnr Mciiillily I'roiUion niiii blore Accounts. - - At various periods, from i,t February to 3 Scptemher 1834. - - At various periods, fr(nn 10 Nov. 1834 to 'i4 June 183.5. Vav PiFHi s'r- Lam-, - - At variuu'! periods, (1 .lim. to 31 Dec ' from 20 .\lav 1833 l8,j3.) ' to 1(1 June 1H34. DA 1 1: of A I' 1) I T. It i; M A li K ^. - - Examination suspended, agree- \ble to Minute of the lioard. daled 9 '^l""i' '83.5 - - Those from 1 .April to 30 ,Sept. 1833, under exann'nation. • • Examination suspended, ;:;;ree- able to .Minute of the lioard, dated i»i'Hii|«ijiiii» i [195 1 I'.ge. Saw Soi'Tii n ii.r.s 138 OiiDs.isri, /)/./•.( nn/Bwr • I. lUriiiHiln 139 a. I'lllllllla -•-•---- ... Ijy :i. Ntw Stiiilh Wiilf) 139 PHOtlSIONS: I. CoHiida 139 i, iVVic .S'oh'/i Wiilfs - - - - - - . . - -140 :i. Vim IhciHiUs I^iimI -•---.-.-- 140 Ratios /I .• 1. Vnmtila -- .... ......140 2. Ni'M' South Wulen .... ......140 a. Nova Scotia 140 Redvctioss 140 Rest of Thooi's --140 Revenve: 1. Geuemllif ..-.-....•.140 2. CiiiKiila ---. -- ......140 a. Scir Sdulh Wak's and Van Diemen's l>and •....- 140 4. Sova Scotia • • • • • • - - - - ->4o Staff: 1, Ihrmuda ..----.-.-- 141 2. Ciimtdii --..-.---.•- 141 », Sfwi'oundlaiid - • • - - - - - - - -141 4. A'ci/' Saiit/i links ..---.-..-141 6. Sova Sailiit - • - • • • • - • - -141 Troops: 1. AmtraUnn Provinces ......... 14.2 2. licriniida ........... 14a a. ditiiiida ---------.--14^ 4. VeyUm - - - - - - - - - - - -14a 5, Nfw liriinsxrick - - - - - - - - - -14'J 0. Sewfiiiindliiiid --.-. ......14a 7. N(io Soiilli ll'ahs - - 142 8. Void Siutiii . - . ■ ..... ..14IJ 1». Villi Diemcn'i Land - - - - - - - - - -143 1(». I'liprrs /iiid tnj'ure the Committee - - - - - - ->43 Van DiEMi^s's Land 143 Works, Pvblic: \. Ilermudn ..... .. ....i.|'^ •1. Ciiiiiidii - - - - - - - - - - -144 a. Sew Jiniii'iwirk • - - . . - - - - -144 t. -Vcif Suiilh Witii-s ..... ..-.144 [ U7 ] INDEX. If.Ii.-ln the following Index tho Figurfs lullowinu the Name» rcl'sr tu tlis Qaottion* ot the Lvidence ; unci ///7>. p. to llio I'iigo of tlic Appondix. ACCOUSTS: 1. Gemriilli/, 2. Ill Caiuvlii A. !). /// Ncui .S'o»upied as a military station. Broke 345, Kempt 747, 74«. '*>>'>^ a'*" 'i'roops, 8. Archer Thomas. (Analysis of his (■vidcnee.)— Extent of the reduction in the commissariat deimil.nent in New South Wales, and amount of saving thereby, 234-23!) Staleinent, sm'eifyiii-- ihe variety of duties perfovn.ed l)v llie cominissanat, 240. p. 19, ■20---I ay- meut.of'the coiiiinis,aiiat a.v principally etVeeted tbmiigh the ineduim ot banks, 241, 24^ Kxtraet of a loiter lo ihe Seeretarv of the 'I reasury by Major-general Honike, r.Titiv.. to ivduein- the commiss.iriat m New Soulli Wales, /.. 20, 21--- (.real nieon- venienee arixs from the failure of the contractor!* in the colonies 24t>, ^47 1 aiti- culars ,esi)eelin!; the arduous dutv of ilie lioups in New houth U ale., 240-252 Orihiance depariniint is julfilled bv llu' eominissarial as regards pubhe works. 2;-,3-:i5. Convicts reiiuire more attention from the eoinmissariat than troops, 2;,7-2()i ——Arti- cles for ihe use of convicts in New South Wales will be tor the futuiv supplied in thai ,.„l„„y ot5" Commissariat lias no control over the convict service, 2f)3 — All money neee^sarv for the convict service is supplied through the cominKsariat, 204 t^oininis- s iritt in'New South Wales is reduced as low as it can be lo be elleetive, 2I.5 hxpensi ;;,■ nuiintainiiig the convicts in 1S33, 26li Proposed distribution and appiopriation of the commissariat deparln.enl for the year 1834. /'. 23, 24--N.iinber ol persons employed m tiie eoiiiiiii»,aiiat lioin l8;3 and uiiivards, 271 -—-• 'piiiMm ^'-iril'^'^^'f?,;^.;;;;; issariai in Van Dienien's Land, •.'"" ^ " dueiion of ll had 11 tendency lo increase rather than (liinini.-.h, 277- 473' 11 Auiount of th.; expenses ol the conuuisiariat 128 ARC BAT [Military Establishment, Arcfur, Thomas. (Analysis of his Evidence)— eo/itmiurf. commissariat in Canada and Nova Scotia, and cause of so wide a iliffeienc 764-766. 802-804 Letter from the Commissary-general Rotith to Major Airey relative to the commissariat establishment in Canada, 767, p. 56 Number of troons at Quebec; extent of the coramiisariat establishment at Quebec, and cause of its being so large, y68 Amount of salary paid a deputy-assistant commissary-generiil nt Quebec, 769 Commissariat establishment of Quebec extends to the whole proviii of Canada, 771 Paying detached pensioners greatly increases the duties of the commissariat depart- ment in Canada, 772-781. 792 Reason the commissariat department in Canada could not be dispensed with, and the troops provisioned by the quarter-master of the regiment, 782. Commissariat in Canada has been reduced as much as might be expected, 783 Number of officers attached to the commissariat in Nova Scotia, 784 -Large body of officers necessary for the performance of the duties of the commissariat in Nova Scotia from the great distance of ilie respective posts, 785-789 Manner of making payments in Canada where only one officer of the commissariat is attached to a post, 791 |-A11 rations in Canada are provided by public contract, 793-705 Situations of the various depoti in Canada, and nature of ihe stores kept therein, '796, 797— — Statement of the remiiiiis in store of provisions, forage and fuel at the several stations in the Canadas, 796. p. 60, 61 No provisions sent to the Cunadas from England, 799 Nature of the various duties performed by the commissariat in the Canadas, Sot. Number of troops and extent of the commis^^ariat at Amherstberg and Penetan- "■uishine, 805-808 Number of troops and extent of the commissariat in Newfoundland, and cause of the commissariat in the Canadas being so large, 81 1 Commissary-general responsible for all the commissariat accounts in the Canadas, 814 Forms used in keep- ing the commissariat accounts in the Canadas very numerous, 815-817 Siatenient ot the manner the various accounts of the commissariat are kept, with explanations as to each item, 817, p. 63-65 Manner troops in the Canadas are supplied with pro- visions, 818 Manner the various accounts of the commissariat are examined and audited, 819-821 Manner the commissariat accounts are kept in New South Wales, and cause of their being in arrear, 822-838. S81-884 Extent of the governor's autho- rity over the commissariat in New Soiith Wales, 828-838 In Nova Scotia, 839-845 . Direct communication constantly kept up between the commissariat in New South Wales and the Treasury Board, 846. Cause of the reduction in tho commissariat in New South Wales, 847-849 Effect of the system of contracting for provisions in New South Wales, 851-859. 871-880 Situation of the various depor. onnected with the commissariat in New South Wales, 861 No provisions sent out i.j New South Wales from England, 862 Extent of the commissariats connexion with the public buildings in New South Wales, 8C3-865 All contracts for the supply of troops in England are made by the Board of Ordnance, 866. 870 Great uncertainly as to the performance of contracts in Now South Wales, 886 State of the commissariat department in Van Dieraen's Land, 889-894. Arrear Accounts. See Accounts. Assembli/. See House of Assembli/, Assistant Surgeon. Opinion as to the necessity of maintaining a staff assistant-iurgeon at Bermuda, Smelt 528-531, Turner 489-498. Australian Colonies. See Accounts, 4. Conlracts, 4. Emigrants. Penal Settlements. Troops, I. Ali/mer, Lord. Sec Aide-de-Camp. B. Banks. See Commissariat Department, 4. 7, Government Funds. Barracks: 1. liermudu. i. Canada. 3. New South Wales. 1 . liermudu : The barracks at Bermuda are very extensive, and the duties of the ordnance officers very laborious, Smelt 548-551. 2. Canada : Opinion that wen; the public departments consolidated at the several stations in Canada the barrack department would be unnecessary, Greig iioti. 1142, 1143. 3. New South Wall's : Varticwhti resppctisiir the bad management of the barrnck department in New South Wales, Smuth i^o-i^t). 160 Barrack department would be much improved if trans- ferred to the ordnance, Smyth 168. Bateau Establishment. Extent thereof in the CaDadas, Archer 809. Batliurst. .bliahment, . 764-766. itive to ilie at Quebec; ng 80 large, 3uebee, 769 Canada, 771 ariut (lepurt- t ill Canada raster of the ed, 783 arge body of Nova Scotia ng payments 791 -Ail if the various •ment of the Panadas, 796. fatiire of tiie nd Penetan- swfoundland, ssary-general ised in keep- Stalenieut of nations as to ?d witli pro- xainined and South Wales, L'rnor's autho- itia, 839-845 n New South 40 Effect 871-880 South Wales, Extent of 863- 8G5 of Ordnance, South Wales, •894. nt-surgeon at it Settlements. ;e ofticers very al stations in , U43. in New South iroved if trans- Jiathunt. Colonies; 1835.] BAT CAN 12Q the troops at Bermuda on the ist January 1835, App, p. 97. itiiig thereto — see also Assistant Surgeon. Barracks, 1. Boats. Balhursl. See Pensiunurs. Bermuda. Distribution of For other nialters relatiii., „ . . . . . Civil Expenditure. Commissariat Department, 2. Convicts, l. Divine Service. Governors. Ordnance Department, 1. Parliamentary Grants. Phillips, Mr. Population. Reductions. Revenue, I. Si'tnal Stations. Spirits. Staff) i. Store-keeper. Tank-keeper. Troops, 2. \o. frorfa. Public, 1. Blundford. Is a station in Upper Canada where the commissariat distribute presents to the native Indian tribes, Greig 927-962. Boats. Necessity for the garrison boats at Bermuda, and purposes for which used, Sme/f 534. 535. Turner 499-504 Purposes the boat and boat's crew is used for in the Canadas, Kempt 717 Boats and boats' crews necessary for the harbour posts at Nova Scotia, Broke 336. Body-guard. See Governor's Body-guard. Bonham, Francis Robert, m.p. (Analysis of his Evidence.) — Particulars respecting the salary piiii! to Mr. Phillip's the store-keeper at Bermuda, 3S3, 584. Boundary Qiiestiun. Inhabitants of the State of Maine have shown a disposition to make inroads into the disputed territory of Canada, and opinion that a force should be kept up suflicitnt to repel them, Kempt 642. See also Iroops, 3. 5. 8. Bnurke, Major-Cieneral. E.\tract of a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury by Major- general Bomkc, relative to reducing the commissariat in New South Wales, Archer, p. 20, 21. Bread. Opinion the present method of contracting for bread by the coniiiiissariat at ■^ork is bad, and suggestions lor its improvement, Greig 1083. Brigade-Majors. Number thereof in Canada, Greig 1 138-1 140. Broke, Lieutenant-colonel Horatio George. (Analysis of his Evidence.)— On the staff in Nova Scotia, 321 Military establishment not capable of any reduction in Nova Scotia, •3:27, 34' i (ircal inconvenience arose from the removal of u regiment from Nova Scotia to llie West Indies, 330 Number of regiments in Nova Scotia and its dependencies, 334 Militaiv staff not ea|.able of any funlitr reduction, 335 Boats and boats' crews necessary for the harbour posts, 336- at the (lepailiire of the regiment for India, 338-344- -Posls that were discontinued -Highly desirable that Aiiapolis should be occupied as a inilitary station, 345 Observations respecting the militia in Nova Scotia, 350, 3,51. 355-38i Number of troops on the American frontier, 35a- '^54 Militia force is popular in Nova Scotia, 355. " Mistaken ideas entertainad by emigrants of what they are to find, 361, 362 Opinion 'especiing emigrants enlisting in the militia, 362. 372. 378. 383 Very few King's troops eiiiployed'in civil duties, 382 Manner of supporting and dispo^ing of unemployed emigrants, 384-387 Emigrants would desert trom the militia imme- diately iipon Hnding emplovment, 387, 388 Colonial corps would be nuuli more e.\prnsiye than British soldiers, 390 Opinion as to raising a corps in Ireland for the service of Nova Scotia, 393 Period at which regimenis of the line are relieved in Nova Scotia, 396 ciuss of persons appointed to the coiimiissariat in Nova Scotia, 401. Bnian, \Villiam. (Analysis of his Evidence.)— Troops all supplied by contract in Van Diemen's Land and Australia, 1031 Nature of the provisions supplied, and manner the eonlraets are made, 1032-1038 Resources of New South Wales capable of sup- plvini; the troops with all necessaries reiimred for thcin, 1040 Great loss occasioned to'the public from the commissariat of Van Uiemen's Land neglecting to lay in a proper store of grain, 1040, 1041. Burke, Colonel Thomas. (Analysis of his Evidence.)— Commanding officer in Newfoutid- land, 56C-068 Number of troops necessary for the duty in Ncwtoundlaiid, 569-574 Opinion respecting any reductions in the staff, ,575-J*^'-' C. Canada. E.xient of the Canadian frontier bordering on the United States, Hay 570 Distribution of the troops scrying in Canada on the 1st January 1835, App. p. 98. For other nrfliers relating thereto— sec also ./IrniuH^i, 2. Aide-de-Camp. Bateau listablishmnt. Barracks, 2. Boats. Boundary Question. Brigade- Majors. Chap/aim. Citadels. Civil Department, 1. Colonial Corps. Comiiitsstrial Dewutfent, 3. Commissary-General. Consolidatioii of (Mces. Contracts,^. Depots. lie Salahery, Colonel. Emigrants. J-:iigiHecr Department. Excise ()-/,.,.,.„ Ermids. Glials. C-overnor!, Hou^e of Assemhlu. Indian Department. Medical Stat}'. Mitilan/ Co,>imissioners. Military .Secretary. Mitilia, 1. isioners. Povulution. Presents. Provisions ( )rdna Rati Department, -2. * — - , 1. Reductions. Reienue, l.i. Salaries. Sclioots. .Stall, '2. Itkgraphs. put Troops, 3. 10. Works, Public, 2. 473- Cash 130 CAS C O M [Military Establisliment, tu Cdf/i AccontiU. Sff AcaiHiii-. Cei/loii. S'c Troops, 4. Chapltiiiis. Opinion rcspccliiig ilie reduction of clergymen in Ireland island, 7'unR'r 4(';6- 472. 477-4H1S Number of eliajilains to tiie forces in Canada, and aniouiu of llieir salaries, Keiiipt 705-7 lu Notliing to prevent the elergyinen at the ditfereiit stations in Canada pert'orinintid)lisiimenl at Kingston, and opinion as lo liu; reductions that micht be efieeted thereat, Greiy 1101, 1102 I-xtiiit of the eommissariat at Quebec md cause ot Its bcmg m> extensive, Arc/ier 76.S-7.S1 Extent of the esiablislimem at Uideaii Canal station, and tialure of tiie reduelions lliat might be ell'ected thereat Greiir 1103-1105 FAtent thereof at York in 1H27, 1828 and 1833, siiowingan increase latt terly, (heig ioGv. 1067 Kxteni to whicli the e'lablisinnent at York is eapablc'of being reduced, Greig 1050-1083 Commissariat at York could have bi en eondueled Willi two jiciMiiis less in 1H27, Greig loCn). 1073 Period of time devoted by the offi- cers lo their duliis, Greig 1074 Establisliment at Fort d'eorge allogetlier unnecessarv (rum the easy eommunieation betwten that station and York, Greig ioSS-ioq2 7\ um- ber of (dlieers neeessHiy for condueling the coiiimissariat of York and Fort Geor-e if cotisolidaled, Greig 1098-1100 Coiiimissariat at York could not be consolidated h-„iii the posts being at so considerable a distance from one another, (^my/i 1153-1 1-0" Parlieuhirs res])ieling tlie commissariat in Canada, and opinion relative to its reduc- tion. Kempt 718-723 lias been reduced as much as mlglit be expected, Are/ier S'X — — (."ould be conducted at a third of the present expense, w'illi great as to >tand little in need of a commissaiial, C/myww/i 1002 Frequently happens that inefheient officers are employed, whose places arc sinecures, Greig 1 120 Reason il could not be dispensed with, and the troops provisioned by the quartermaster of the regiment, Archer -82 Commissarial officers in Canada perforin (he duties which the Chelsea Hoard (loes"as to till exauiiiialion of pensioners before payment. Archer 773. 7J)2 Paying detached'ijen- sioiiers greatly inenases its labours, ^l;c7ic;- 772-7S1 . 702 Letter from tlie Commissary- general RoutI; lo Major Airey, relative to the commissariat, Archer 707,/). 5(1. ' " •I, New .iuulh Wa/es: Particulars respecting the commissariat in New South Wales, Dar/iiig 75-80, Smi/th 144-I4(i, l(il-l6tj Cause of its being increased. Darling SQ-i).\ ^Reason it is so much more exj)eiisive than in oilier colonies, Darling 07-100, Snii/lh I70-178 It provides for the convicts as well as ilie troops in New South Wales' and \an Dieinen's Laud, Darling Hit. 03, llai/ 39, Smi/th i7,-)-l77 Fxtcnt of the reduction therein and amount ot saving thereby, Archer 234-231) Payments thereof are eliected through the medium oi' liatiks, Archer 241, 242 re princijially All money necessary for the convict service i' supplied through the commissariat Archer 2(14 It has no conlrol over the convict service, Archer 2(13- Ntmihei of persons ,niployid ihcrein from 1828, Archer 271 Slatemeni specifying the varietv of duties pertormed by the . .iiiiniissiirial in New South Wales, Archer /). K), 20 ^It i- icdiieed as low as it can be lo he effective, Archer 2(15 I'roposed distribution and appropiiaiion thereof in New St)uih Wales, for the year 1S34, Archer 270, p. 23 24 Direct cominunication eonsiaiiily kept up between il and ihe Treasiirv lioaiil' /l;r//e;' 84(1- Cause ol its reduciion, Archer S47-840 deducing it further would' liavi' the effect of raising the prices of the contracts, /l;i7i«anat at Nt .1/(7(1 ;• 811. NewloiiiKliatuI, tt. Van Dieincn's Land: Stall- ol the eoiiimissaiial in \'aii Diemeii's Land, .^//r/iiv SSf)-Mi)4 Opinion les- pccliiig Its reduction, Archer -zj;, Manner the coinmissiirial i- eondueled at Ilobart Town, Archer 8i|(,/). 71 Slrenulh of ihe eoninussiiiat tU partmenl at Mae(|u;iiK llirbour, Archer S^l. 473- ' Si 7. I'apci.^ i 3 I 132 COM CON [Military Establisliment, Commissariat Depart me/it—conlhwed. 7. Papers laid befor,- the Committee: I-\timnte of what mislit b. tl.e probable expense of the cominisbariut in New South Wale dearraom any a.nv,ct arrangement., and the balance between .he estunatc waies, ciLrtii 3 Treasury etter a( c ressetl to the othcer com- H::: .£,^[n nI^sIIu^; W;JS' --ti-^ arran^inents .,r co,.!uc.ing the duties d" the cZ mislariat deparlment, and transfer o? Government funds from the m.luary chests to '"Fo"o.hrr"2t.:S';e;at'iu" there..,-..e also Accounts, ,. .. 3. 4- ^, Airey, Major. i/«S)wJ fo«4e,M.i^or.ge„eral. Uread. Command Aroney. Contracts. ,.a 3. cZZts 1 Corn. Dafi's. Frauds. Forbes, Deputy Comm.s.ary-general. Govermmut Funds. Indian Department. Issuers. Military Chest. 1 ensioners. Presents. Provisions, 1 . Ruulh,MT. R.J. Stores IVoop, 3. 10. iVorks, Public, 2.4. Commissarj/-generai. Responsible for all the commissariat accounts in the Canadas, Archer 814. Commissioners. See Accounts, 4. Militari/ Commissioners. Competition. See Contracts, Consolidation of Offices. Whether a reduction of- the '»ili''">^ ^^;^'!!;^1'";';':^S;;«:;:; could not b- criected by thuconsoh.lalion ot certan. olhces, kempt / ' --7>y—yP'"" " Seve y duly connected with supplying .he army, or for ca.Ty...g on pubhc wu.ks .n c'u ula co.dd be ..onsolida....! and perfnrme.l much .nore elhc.ently than a present, ^j;'" 7 '°_Opi,,ion .hat .he commissariat a.ul ordnance m Ca,ia.la .n.ghl be conso- id ee annual expense of the ordnance efllc.ed .hereby, Cre,g . l.o-— >ames o I e p consolida.e.1 nl Cana.la .hat previously had con.m.ssar.at esL.bl.h.nen.s at each. Green 1151, 1152. See also Harracks, 2. Commis^anat Department, 3. CoNTH-iCTS: 1. Generality. 3. Kew South Wales. •2. Canada. 4. Van Dtemen's Land. 1 . Generally : , , ■ Cnva in.onvenience arises to the commissariat from the failure of the conlrac.ors in the Cdonies. /nA.v .40, .,7-~S^>rur. of those made by the Board o. Ordnance tor provisioning the troops in England, Archer 8OO-870. 2. Canada : Manner contracts are made by the commis,aria. for the supply of raf ons to the troops ,nl^l^^Greig 078-99'. ^^"'P' 7" A" -"'-* ^'"^ ^"'"'^'^ "'' l'"*^'''-' ^'"'•^ 981. 3. li'en' South Wales: v ■ , Sv-.tem of contr.clin.' for provisions for the service of the connnissariat in New ^oulh ^^-nie;!X means on"h,e,n' that es.abhshmenl. Archer ^,H. 851 - -Great uncertamty as to ilieir due j)crforinancf, Archer 880. 4. Van Diemen's Land: Manner .hecontrac.s for provisioning the troops in Van Diemen', Land an' Australia •ue ' e /J,V«« .o3'2-lo38 Contract system is not to be depende,! upon from the ;' V 01 he co,Hrac,,-'rs, Archer H,,4, '• 70, 7'-—^- 'I'"""'')' ">, ,""'I"^ I---- ^, 'contract for supplvin. (Mov,s,ons. ,on.pe.itMn beutg very great, ^■"".■""'' "^o IJl-Every Hung conncct.-.l will, the supply ol .he . loops ami convic.s ,s done by con- traC, Fanfoul "1043-1040. ,, ■• See also Ihead. Commissariat Department. 4- P'ov'swns, 1. 3. Contractors. See Contracts,.]. .Sccuritii ••■ Coy I I CIS : 1. lierniudii. 'i. \eir South Wales and Van Diemen's Laud. X Papers lai,: Class .,f eonvieis maintained a. the Government expense in N.^w S, l\ -ale li iVan Diemei.', Land. Pairloul .0,4— "Number ol —icts ahvityOtad a tciidencv Colonies; 1835.] CON EXP »33 at work, Cunvkts— 2. Nerc South Wnles and Fan Diemen's Lund -coaUMxed. '„ tendency to increase rather than di.ninisl,. ^rr/ur 27? Expense ot mainlannnj; them m .8'n it. New South Wales, Archer 2CG Cause ot convicts rcqu.r.ng mo.e attention from the commissariat than .mops, Jrcher 257-^61 Observattons re.pectn.g the con- victs supported by Government, Darling 94-97. 3. Piipvrs laid he/ore the dminittee : Proportional difference between the care of 4.80° convicts and the care of as many "Nie'ais:!'i^«mM^'-' DeparOnent , ,. -J . Pro.imns,.. Ua>ions, .. Revenue,.. Stores. Siiperinti lent nj Convicts. Corn. Price of wheat liable to much fluctuation in Van Diemen's UmU'airJmvl 1058 !!LGreat loss oceasiotied to the public from the commissanat in Van D.emen s Land neglecting to lay in a sufficient store of grain, Brijan 1040, 1041. Correspondence. See Accounts, 4. Bourke, Major-general. D. Darlin- Lieutenant-general Ralph. (Analysis of his Evidcnce.)-Time witness was governor ot New South Wale.,'43, 44— Extent of .he garrison when -"--eh 45 L_Variot. applicatio,. nuide Ibr^^ased niu.^r ot t^>^^^^;jej...unant^ SrWalL^-S^^inStbodJlguan .-f.^ to India ; cause of the variation in t.ie amount of »";-,'^,'^V^''-59-s74T-;„V;: '",;' "e n- fore.. would not be desirable in New South Wales, (^-^-f — ,^'''J '"'1"'^^ '^,.^7,, ,^ „ . „,l fin _F.it'il)lishment is on the bwtst possible scale, 72 — -lUtmoianmm re:;i'ti;;T;S and tampon of New South wLs, 73— State of the eomm.ssanat U& mlJi^t:::'dispenil U 8t-85--Fnrtieulars res,,ec.ing t e ^^^^^^ cer -.^I-'-'-.J''3,'^-C,[. Wale! t-i^0^eT;;;^o":"er ecti'ug the convicts bong y^YfJ';^' '" ,.^,^;;„f "''l,"^^^^ the commissaria. in'New South Wales is ;l:^v^;;::^o;'cS^':i:i:8J^'o5i\o^'i^bservaLns as .0 .he proposed reduction in the'^taff n New South Wales, 113. Archer 804, p.Ji- ^^e also Provisions, 1. D.,u„ Assistant Connni^sary-ireneral. Amount, of the salary of those attached to the oonimissaiial department in Quebec, .-/n-Ae)' 7C19- uii.. ,1;. De SaloLery, Colonel. Commaiule.l the militia in Canada durn.g the war, and highly dis- liu.Miishe.l himself in .hat situation, Kempt 092. 7o7- Divine Service. Stations in Bermuda at which divine service is perfor.ned, lurner 46.. E. rfleclire Force He.uin <,f .he numbers and dis.rihu.ion of .he effective '"f'^^ "fli«>rs, ^'I'n "ommllMoned ...tieeis and rank and file of the Ihuish army, in the several Colonies, uieludiim colonial corps and artillery and engineers, App. p. Sy. of the Emi-ralioii Cnimissiou, "''.'' 3/ yiO—Tf ';,.',, Oi.inion respeeling eini- ,„ NovaScolia of what they are Archc I I'^'i 1 1 ■ olilure. Mililarjj Expenditure. 4T;i' S) Failures. !^ '1 »34 FA I GRE [Mililiiry Etttablislimcnis, Fnilurvs. See L'uiitrticis, l. I'liirfou-I, (iivrf^e. (Annlyhis of his Evidence.) — Every thing i-onnccted with the siip- |)fy of the tioo])s anil convicts in Van Oicinen's l,iiii(l and AnstrnMii is done by eontrnel, I(i43-i(i4(i No dilliculty in lindinf. _..;':.onrt to contfacl Cor provisions, coniiielition being wry great, 1030 Class of convicts maintained at tlie (iovtriinicnt expense in !Ncw South Wales and Van Dienien's Land, lo,'-,4 Prices of l)cef and niuttnn in Van Dieinen's Land, I05(i, 10,57 Price of wheal liable to much lluctuation, 10 yS. Vi'iicihlc L'lirps. !?ee I'oloiiidl Ciir]>\. Fuidiic. All slaiV odicers enlilled to I'oriige for their horses froHi the coimnissarial, Kempt 704. Forlics, i)epiiiy Coniniissary-ljeneral. His oninion lliat the connnissariat in Caiindii could be ciindiietiil at half its present expense, G/c/'i; II17, Fort (ieari^c. Sec Comviissfiriul Dcpartiiieut, 3. Framls. I'recantions taken by the coininissarial to prevent fraud in payiiiir the pensioners in Canada, Ardur "^~'J>io, C»n;ij' p'Ju-q'2j. Fridciiik's Tovii. I'apilnl of New lirinisVMck ; ninnbir of troops mainiained iluriin, Kriiifil -51. Fraitlivr. See Cfiiiitda. I'roops, 8. Fiiiiil.s. See (lovtriiiiu'iit Funds. li. (iiw/^. Ne ssary loi military he'iig employed wiih regard to local gaols in llalitax anil some oth, towns, Miiilldml 298-303, Kempt 653-671. (iiiiiiniiib. No reiluclion capable of taking plaei in the garrison of Quebec, kciiiin Lnj4,Cnjj lilxtcnl of the garrison at New South Wales when (ielieral Dariiiij' lett, Diulii'iji 45 Rltiiiorundum respecting the siall' and g.-irrison of New South U ales, Ddiliiig 7,t. Si-c also N(i//, ,. GarrisiDi Intats. See liiuita. Gihrnltar. Nature of the arrangements made at Gibialiar with a view to reducing its pre- sent esliiblishim lit. Ihn/ 2. Government Funds. Treasury letter addressed to the officer comm.iiiding in New South %\'ales, r(s|iectiiig arrangeinents for conducting the duties of the commissariat depart- nienl, and iransfer of f iovernmt lit funds from tin' military chest to hanks at Sydney, Ap/i. p. too. (ioreniment Gninl>. See Pdrliamenturij Grnnts. Goreniiiieiit //oi/mj*. I'arlieulars respecting liial in New South Wales, W(;j^ 5. p l^xpeiise of the Goveinnunt house in Newfoundland, and by whom furnished, Hai/ 40(1-408. (icrenmrs. Names of governors ; amount of ihiir salaries, and manner they are paid : Ai lUrniiida, //rt(/4.;i). 4411-442 — In Canada, J/rti/ tiorj-lim — liiNew Ibuiisuiek and Prince J'.iiwaid's Island, lluif i.sS, 1 Si)— At Newfiniinlland, y/,;;/ 4op--ln New South Wales, /y«V 4-7— In Nnva Seolia, IJtii/ l8(i, lh7. li|i. 22^>-2;J3— In Van Dieinen's Land, //. (, II (///, ./. (Analysis of his Evideiu;e. i- -D < h'•''«»"''"'" iniven l)V the eoinmissiiriiit to miard u^iiinst Iriuid in paynifr the pcosionen, od.ing lol-rcveni eleigymen at the .litTerent stations performing the duties of chaplain, 1137- —Number ot biigade- ;,L.]ors in Canada, , ,38-1 140— Observations relative to the engiiu.r department. 1141. H. Uuiiftix. See ViUidels. GV/o/i. Troops, 8. Ha,j Rolwrt IVilltum. (Analysis of his Evidence.)-L:iuler Secretary of State for the T;i,.nies 1 — ^tepsakci/bvOoverninenlwith a view to a reduction ol the mill ary es In. n.s at ( ibialtar and Ionian Islan.is, 2 Account ol money to bo paid by lu 1 r lor the support of the military establishment : found im- 1 be" reduce the lorce in tlu'Ltnd ..f Ceyloi^ 2--Names o, the gcm^.^^^ unoiint of their salaries, in New South \Vale> and Van Diemen s Land, 4-— J .irtitu ais "lili^t gc^eriiment-honse m New ^^outh Wales, 5. 9— Aceoniuott^^eftectne tn.-.,. in the Australian provinces, and cause ol Us diminution, 11, 2 -Kc.ison lor X,.;;:altor;e being s.^nt ... New Sou.^ Wjdes, ,;^Nt.mber ol. -^ -P;;-,^ uiaiiitainin.-- the gov. rnor's bodv-guaiil m New South Wales, I0-18 ^ ""■'■,, '^"'""ti -eercuim troops for the-servlee of Swan River. ,9 20-— Account "* ^'^ F»» '"tleine.us in the Au's.ralian Colonies, 22 Nature ot the police lorce in New South Wales, and manner it is supported, 24, 25. Amount of colonial revenue of New South \yales and Van |^-'"^'i;;^;^;;J; J'jf ;" Scheme for raising a militiu force not tound praclicaljle, J--^^'^^'^^^^ Sou.h Wales and Nan Dieinen's l/,iid. slating .he number ol com ets, 3- ^^""''^^' o elii.Man.s verv ...nsiderable ,n bo.h Colonies, 33 Convicts have ^-^Y " "-'' "^ r "r icl- tbe hulk system was abolisliul, 'M-'P Number ot emigianls ard rnneir^nalesseutouLince the lorina.ion ;'^ t''--^-'- i:::^^^:' ^^tl^e Commissarial provide for .he .onvieis as well as 'l'^' 'V'"l'^' •^i>~V, '^' , ' 1 „„ arrangement suugelled by the Treasury tor applving part ol the '■7':;; '-'';, J/, ^'^v'^. Colonies to the slipport of llu^ convicts, .,1 Stall appointments 1,1 New Soulh will not admit of reduction, 42. , , , .„ [Second Examination.l-Hody-guard in New South W.des ^^^' ^"'^,:;^''''^;^':^ -LEx.ent ol ,he military force m Nova Seotia, 181-183 ^I'l' ' '* '' "^^.'.^a sU e from New iJrnnswiek tor an increase ot troops, in consetiuence ot the uiistt IcU si 1 e ri^bomuhnv :,ues,ion, t84-_Aniount of the sah.i^ ='lrSru d Sinc^ ..oven.or of NoVa Scotia, and the lieulcnaut-governors ot New^ """"?':,;'"' . "si ?' l\' r^ M,u-..!, and manner -lw> funds are derived tor paying .he same, .81.-101. 2 « :„No.arianuntary vote for Xova Seot.a, 192 Amount o. '^"■-"^^.^'.f'^';' S^U.. N^v itninswiek L\ I'riiie.. Kdward's Island. .93— Suite u. he nidi n., 194 -—- Vmouiil paid by each province lor oliieers u, tram and inspect the inilm«, MM- 473. '*4 Amount 136 11 A V K E iM [Military Eilablishincnt, llini Kolini n'iHidm. (Anal.V»is of his Kvidencc)— <()«/i«mv/. A.non..l miuiral to keep iip iho citadel of Halifax, up Extent ot -he pub ic work. for n"u.i ■. in« the l-roVincc of New nr.n.swirk. ..,7 Amount ... pm-ulntu... m > ,v- Seo a N;« lUtnlswiek and Prince K.iwa,d\ Island, i.jS— ['ar.KH>h,rs - ■speet- h.,^ ,e.,iiiliain Nova Scotia, .uc.-^o^: Exient of .he redactions .,. Nova^cot.a. ' oa- '..( --Veiv unwrse to reduce the force, on account of the extent o the frontier. 20--on Militia for.e not al all popular, eia-si.-, Price paid for rations >n ?Jnva"scolia 116,217 -Revenue of Nova Scolia is under the control oi the Assemuly, r,s^ ;..ol-^Opinion as to the result of Parliament refusing; the payment ot the governor s s"alarv,"'2.!i -Manner in which the revenue of Nova Scolia is expended by the Assem- Wy, 222-227. rri.ird Examination.]— Extent of military force in Newfoundland, 402, 403 Amount L'' ' . , ^ 1 ■.. : ;.i ./,i_^f„, 1. viwiicd reductions praclic.ble, 439 Op.ruon as to ivir.l.egovci'nor's salary out of the col.mial tund, 440-41.2 Lxpensc of the civil IroVernr. ent, an.l amount of the Parliamentary grunt towards it, 44o-448- *'|P.,ur.h E xaminu.i..n.]-Amount of military force m the Cana.ias, and mann.:r they •■re distributed, o8o-^8g Exient of lionlier towards the Umte.Mates, 590 l!-xtent ;;nhem,litiat.;.^er5;..— Nature of .he recommen.lations '^^ ''-'"' '"^l^y,™-;;;^ in 182-, lor putting the Canadas in a proper state ot .letence, SO'^-oyJ-j-JX-'t"" " "'^. c^enls made .0 the Indian t.ibes. (ioo-tio4 Amount ot salary; and em.du.nents o !.n-e or in the Canadas now and formerly, and fund.leiived rom, t.05-tuo--AnK,unt .*; revenue, (in Extent of poi.ulalion, (il3 ^^^n. ot con.emplated recluc.ioi.s, 0' )? -^-Parliculais respecting the plan recently adopted ol training the milil.a, 019- ,J3o_ Jucduclions in .he m.lilary establishment have been made as tur as practicable, O31. lliiiltli i)f Troops. See Troops, 2. Jluhurt Toiiu. See Commissarial Depnrtiiifiil, (J. House of Asu'M,,. A bill was introducecltheiei,. .uring ^^''"'^f^^■';;;;";;;^~ ';;,,;J:, (•■inadas for i.'i deiini; the mililia force ellVetive, hut wa- r.jecied, hanpt •\K>~— ' 'I """' h" la 1 g. 1 n hacr m Cana.la should be sup„or.ed by .he lions . " , Ass-Mnbly, but it Ivoul.! b.. hopel -ss .0 . xpeet .hey w.nil.l u.i.ler. .ke the charge. Kempt 08^-602. .Sec also Reunite, 2. Hulks. See Conviels. :i;.^"';;,,;.";,',r,;- i.i,i.» .' ill" ".i""' .i..»..i.t«" ■■< ""■ '»''»" '''i»""" '■'■"'""" looti. 1024-1026. drei'^ 9,V--!»u4- li„lil'ta,,, J.ipniUtlan. Ireland. Opinion as to raising a corps in Ireland for the ,ervuc of Nova Scotia, liroke 3[t3- Ireland Island, ^ve i'haplains. Troops,:. Issuers. Nature of the duties of issuers in ihe commissariat .lepar.inen. at York, Gre,g 107!). K. hevw, UiMit linn, (ieneral Sir .lames. (Analysis of his Eviden.-e.)--Anxious .h'sire of all S'r' Ol, ol C Ida .0 Mdiiee tlie.stalT, and .liminish ther.-nlar »"'<-;". l-al .0 oiy, lor Ihe last l.n v.ars.aiHl opinion it is not capable of being r.3.>-'>.VJ -Extra baltalion net essaVv in Canada 10 suppor t the militia in repelling aggr ions under the boundary iinesti.ui, U40-64J -K egim. nts en list men C()Ionie»; 1835.] KEM iSr I L >37 Kempt, Kiglit Hon. Ooiieral Sir J{imes. (Analysis of hia Eyxdcncc)— continued. in C;aiia(la; any man dtlrrinj,' himself at head (imiili-rs is taken as a recruit if fit for ser- vice, ('^^ Not advisable to raise a coloiii.il cor|>'- for llic defiiice of tiie Caiiadas troin cirifiraiils, 644. 649 Seveiai fencible corj)'. raised in Norlli America during the late war, hut very inferior to the regular troops, ant! trjually expensive, (150. Nuniher of ni;nlnr troops oseiilially necessary in Canada, for the iiurpusc of in-jiiring con(i(h'iicc ainoiii; the native corps in ease of emer;;eney,()51,(i.V- 'i'roops in {,'amula niomit L^uard at the gaols, hut othi.wise pertorm no civil duties, 6,j3-0()O — —Gaols throiighoul Canada n'oi sunicienlly secure lo dispense wiili a mililary guard tor their proiectiou, tilil-liyi' Ueason it'would he impolitic lo willidraw any portioti of the nrcscnl iey;ulai force from the Caiiai'as, fi7-2-(i7(i Ohservatioiis relative to reiider- iMi; 'he militia au cilicieiit body in Canada, ()77-(iS4 Opinion that the troops 111 (Canada -hould be niauUaincd by ihe House of Asseiidily, hut it would be hopeless to expect ihcy would inuleriake tlie cliarge, (;85-(io2 rur|)Oses to which llie revenue of till' Caiiadas is appropriated by the Hou^e of Assembly, 6H7. Number of ariillery and ciiiiini crs in Canada essentially iiecessaay for the service ot the colony, (ii);}-- -No riductioircapalile ot' taking place in the garrison of Quebec, t)04, 6();-, Sum allowfd for the stall' in Canada is necessary, and not capable of reduction, fio()-7C!0 Number of aides-de-camp Lord Aylmer, as Governor of the Caiiadas, is eii- ti'lled to, 701-703 All slalF ofticers entitled' lo lorage for ilieir horses from tin; coin- niissaiiiit, according lo their rank, 704 Number of chaplains to ihe forces in the Canadas, and amount of llieir salaries, 70^,-710- Medical stull not capable ol the slightest ndiiction, 71 1 Whether u reduetion of the military establislimenls in Canada ccnild not he eilected by consolidating certain offices, 71 2-7 l.O Particulars respecting the commissariat department in Canada, ae.d opinion lespectiug its reduction, 7lH-7i3, Cause of ihc commi>sariat al Peuelauguishiiie being so extensive with so small a nuru- Ixr of troops al lliiit statioi: 7.:4 Every opportunity has been taken lo reduce the Indian de|iariment in Canada, 7J.J-727 Number of troops in Nova Scotia is abso- liitelv necessary during the unsettled slate of the houndaiy <|uestion, 7'28-731 -state of tlie militia in Nova Scotia, 7;j'2-73,-j EHect of a rupture between tins couiiliy and Ihe Uuiteil Siaies were the regular troops partially withdrawn from Ilalilax, 73G-744— — Nature of the niililary stations in Nova Seolia, 745-752 Cause of the ixpense ol the commissariat of Cimuda exceeding that of Nova Scotia, with the name number ot troops lo inainlain, 7,-,;}, 754. . Expense of tlie inediL-al sialf in Canada and Nova Scolia, and cause ot so large a dil- ference, 7.-;j, 73G Militia of Canada highly distinguished themselves during llie war, 7.-7, 7.-'8_10pinioii that tlii! incaeiit force in Canada Is not too large fur a peace' esta- biishiuVnt, an,! lou small during a period of war, 7511 Opinion as 10 the period Quebec might be maim, uu'd against an' invading army from the United Slates, 760-7G3. King George's Sound. See Convicts, •z. Troops, 7. Kingston. See Cnnwtissaiiiit J)ci>tirtnicnt, 3. l.iciilciiaiil (ioicrnurs. See Governors. iM. Macquaric Unrbonr. See ( 'ommissnriat Department, 6. Miiintcntincc. See Convicts, .1.3. Cilndch. Mmlland, General Sir Vcrcirinc. (Analysis of his KvidenceO-GovernorofNova Scotia, 278 Militatv force not m'. »lrong 111 ?.ova Scoiia as belore the last American war, 2«o- I'l.ice, which weie furnished with detachments from the mihtaiy e>tab!idiment ol -Viva S'olii -81 -"H3 Natuic of the mililarv duty in Nova Scotia, 284 N'' reductions oHiMbemade in the eslablisbuieiit with a view 10 the pubhe service. cHj-^gf ; Amount. diruops stationed at Anapolis, 288 Necessary lor mililaiy being employed at (he -aols in Ilalilax and other towns, '298-303 Nature ot the civil Am^t'i pcrtorme. by llu'miiitarv in Nova Scotia, 30a Number of soldier, at the respective >»'""■; notaduiitofr'.dactions, 304-3'4 Ubscrvalioiis relative lo training and calling out staff ill Canadii and Nova Scolia, and cause of so -Medical stulV of Canada uol capable of the slightest the miliiia in Nova Scolia, 31 5-3'20. Medical Staff, l-.xp.eiise of the mediciil large a differeiiee, hcmpt -jj, 7jtJ- reiiuction. Kempt 711. Militari/. See Guois. liiols. Troops. Militan, Chest. Amount of money usually m the military chest a, y'';;:"'"';'' .'J^;;^';;;;^ of the commissariat, Greig 1073 Aluays under .louble lock and key al all ilu sta.ious, Aichei 7. Caii.e <.f one imf^ic soldier only beinn; U-h at Hn.uo „( the stations in New Sonlb Wulw, Wakefield I'H I'artieubirs rcspeetinu; tb.^ ..ul.lary .imu.ns in Novtt Seoiia, Kempt 74-,-7.Vi Names of the |.inces wbuli weiv furnislie.l ivitli .iLlncnments from tiie military esiabhsbment of Nova Scoiia, Mailiatid jSi-jS;). Hec also Anapulis, Divine Service. Militia .- 1. C a nulla. 2. -Vtt' South Wales. y. S'vin Sculia. 1. Canada: . Exirnt of the militia foreo in the Canndas. //,(// .-,01 Particulars le.pcciing the nlan'rerentlyn.lo|.te.l of training the militia, liuj/ ihi>-t\\o—--Mi\aux o\ ^^;"'"; ;^ ;;''-^' a formidable body of men, but the exislm- law prevents ti.em beins' lemlei. H4 Training; a portion of the militia under tbe aulbovity ot eovJnment fs'a '^.'Jrv fudieions measare. Kanpt (i;,4--Militia of Canad:. In^lily di^.m-nabed tiiemserves during tbe war, KempI 7,-,,, Opinion that were a portion of tlu militia rendered etbeient, it wonid be still nece=^sary to retain tlie regular lorce in llial eolony. Kempt G33. (i84. 2. Sew SdiUh It ales : Reason n militia foree would not he desirable m New Soulli Wales, Darling G5-G8, llui/ 20. 3. Nuva Siolia : \Lxpems of maint«ini..«< the militia .n Nova Seot.a New BrunswK-k and I'ri.-e Ed- ward's Island //Civil Depart, mill, 3. Commissariat Dqiurtmail, ,v liovanmeiit Houses. Governors, (iovenioi's Yaelil. Population. Reductions. Rest oj troops. Revenue,l. Sliilf, 3. Troops, (i. to. \m- South Walts. Welurn of all pav, allowances, , niohim. lit. and salaries, issued to ollieers ,.f the military. S'"'"*"". "ielribulion ot the eHeclive iJicf, oliiceis, non-eommis^ioiied otticci-, and rank and hie, ol me IUili>li aimv, including colonial corps, since lSi,-„ inckidini; ariilleiy .-.nd enuincers yl/7'. ,, Hu Ksliimile of what minbl lie the probable e\])ense ot the commissariat, cleared trom any convict iirianuenients, ami the balance between that estimate and the present expense, App. p. .((J — Distribution of the troops >crvin,s' in New Soutli Wales un.l Van Diemen's Land, on tbe i>tt.f May 1H34.. ■!/'/'• /'■ ;iV , . ,. , isee also Accounts, 3. 4. Barracks, 3. Civil Department, 4. ( omwi'^sartat Deparl- meiit,.\.T. Contracts, ■>,. Convicts, -2. Depots. Kmii^raiils. (.arnsons (ioreniiiieiit Fund". (ioverninenl Houses. (iovcniors. (iovernoi's l>odij-(.,uiir(l. Mililaiif Stations. Militia, 2. Ordnance Department, 3. I'olice. J'opulatwn. Provisions, 2. Rations,':. Re^t o/Tronps. «.ir),»r, 1 . 3. SV <(//■, 4- Superintendent of' Convicts. Troops,-]. 10. Works, I'liblic, 4. Sorfolk Island. Opinion the situation liehl by Col..nel Morii,sel therein might be dispensed witli, Darling .Si-85. See also Convicts, 'l. V.iru Scoiia. Disiribulion of the I 01 tbe troops sir hiii; to tin latest returns, App.p.<\*'>. Ste al ^o Jiuals. Ciuil DeparlmenI ( 'omiiiissariiil Deportiiienl,[\. Emigrants. (idols. Govei ■nors. Medical Slutj'. Militaiy Smlion^. Mililia, 3. I'arlioiuentiiri/ (iniiils "/' 1//1/// Rati Rediicii Uciicfol'iioops. Revenue, 1.4. l roops, bl. U" ()//, '((•(';j. ithment, It lur tliu III pi 714. stntions in lis ill Nova .'lacinncnta peeling ilic L'aiiadii arc (I ( flicifiit, milioiily of ladi liii^lily I'c a |i()rli(iii ular lurce in rling C5-C8, Colonioit; 1835.] O F F PRO 139 O. Officen. Sec Vivil Depart me 11 1. lorage. Moreton Ua^. Officet. Sec CoiisotiJatiun of Ojficcs. I. Ucniniila. S. Vitniulii. 3, AVic Smith Hall's. I. lifrmiiila : Dulies of ilie ordnance olhcera very laborious at Bermuda, Smelt 548-551- 'i. Camilla: NiMiibir of arlillrrv and engineers in Canada essentially necessary tor tlic service of llial colony, Keiiijit li();J — — Manner the ordnance business is |)erl'orme(l in Canadu, (iieii; 11 15-1 Uo Names of tlie slations in (Canada occupying ordnance estublisli- ineiils, anti extent lu wbii'li lliey ininlit be reduced, (ireii^ 1 1 1;}-! 1'20 The requisition for stores eoniini; direct I'roin llie adjuianl-fjeiieral to llic coininissary-general would save a great deal of trouble in tlic ordnance departuient in Canada, Greiij MI5. !). New South Wales : Latterly ibe Hoard of Ordnance liave sent ont an engineer to superintend the public buildings in New Soiilli Wales, Archer H(i;5 Ordnance department in New Sontii Wales is fultillcd by ilie coininissariat, as regards public buildings and works. Archer 253-25^. See aho Account!!, 2. Udrrmks, it Contracts, i. Storekeeper 0/ the Ordnance. I I'ri.-e Ed- cotia, liroke o Militia •'>^'' ;).'>.s— Nova Scotia, salary, &c., IS, ,-,. n orks, ibruary 1H3-,, mieitl lldusei. (, lieveiiue, 1 . lied to ollicers liiance depart- listribution of of (lie I5rili>b )t;iiiecrs, Ajip. saiiat, cleared id the present til Wales and ssariat Depnrt- ( iiirrisoiis, 's l>oilij-Gii(iril. i'tipilliiti'iii. Sapfriiitemleiit It lie (lispensetl dependencies, h'jiii lira lit n. I'lirliiiiiieiitiiri/ Uireiiiie, 1. 4. Parliameiitari/ (iraiits. Expense of the civil government at Bermuda, and amount of the Parlianienliiiy urani towards it, lliii/ 44,-^-448 No I'arliiiinentary vote for Nova Scolia, lliiij lij'J. I'eiwl Sclllemeiils. Account thereof in the Ausirnlian colonies. Hay 22. Penetaiii^uishiiie. See Clerki. CominisMrial Department, 3. Troops, 3. Pensioners. I'avnient of llieni by the commissariat in Canada protUiclivc of much labour, from llic scattered state of the population. Archer 774, (ireen 1150 Manner the pen- sioners in the Hailiiirst and Kideau Canal districts are paid by the commissariat, Greig 014-11^3. .S'ff also Commissiiriiil Department, 3. Frauds. Phillips, Mr. I'ariieulars respecting the salary paid to Mr. Phillips, the storekeeper at IJerinuda, Ihmluim ,5S3, 584. Police. Nature of the police force in New South Wales, and manner it is supported, Hay ■:4, -.J- Popiihitiim. Extent of population: Of Ikriiuida, /% 434— Canadns, Haij 613— New South Wales and Van Dieiiicii's Land, //(/.(/ 32— Newfoundland, 7/03^418— Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward's Island, Hay 198. Port Miiciiiiurie. See Civil Department, 4. Presents. Particulars relative to the distribution of presen"-. to the native Indian tribes in UppiM- Canada, Greiir j):4-9l)l Nature of llie prestats made to the Indian tribesin Canada tlMoiiLih the csariat, Chapman 1013-1017, Gmg 924-05 1, 7/ay 600-604 I'ltsenls'to native Indians in Canadu all barlered away by tliem lor dnnk, Chapman 1021, 11)22. .SVf also Commissariat Department, 3. Iiuliua Department. Prices. Sec iVoc(«"Ms, 3. Rations, l. ;)■ Prince Edtcard's Island. See Governors. Militia,^. Population. Revenue,!. PRorisioys: 1. Canada. '2. AVi/' Smith M'd/ef. ;L Van Dienicn's Land. 1. I'aimda: Manner troops ni the Cl.inadas are supplied with |)rovisions, AreherSli<, Greig 1 100 Issuing provisions to the troops ol very minor importance to the cominissariat, hempt -1(5 No (lillienliv in obtainini; supplies for the iroops in case the cominissariat is ab- sent from his station 111 Canada, Greiv ihe commissariat, Chapman loio- Statement o I fuel at the several stations in ihe Canadas, T 2 ( )Jl)icert, 1 ! ' IM. iV 1' HO U EV [Miliwry l".»iubli»liiiicui, ProW»to"J— L-iiniiiiiieil. •» Sew Sunt/i Wales ; . , n v., nmvi.K.ns ,cni uui .0 Nt-vv Soutl. W«l.s iVon. EnKlu.ul, Aniur XU2 Hr.unrcc. !l„.m %■-/4" ^'t'^'"'' '"'• ''"• "^'^^ '" '^""'■"''" '" ^'"' *"'" ih.' h'liurc Mipplu.l ill lliiit col.uiy, Archer ■ibt. 'l>.,„I, lairjhll IC.5.;. .057. See ,,1m. C.<«^«ff», 4. ^ur..,. I'ublie Works. Si U'.wAj, Public. ««,/..■.. See (•./,»/.■/.. Commmaria, Department, 3. /)./m<^.V .1^'"'«'<' <- "/"»..««n/.g.«.r«/. Garrisons, Trmtjit, ;^ R. 1. Canntlii- ;J. Vii(( Sivtid. C.iv rc.uuro.1 .n .loliv. .in-, ration, .0 convicts „u,cl. ..rcaur .lu.n .otl.c troops ,n New South Wiilcs, Airlier -i.-,;. ar);. Price p.ul lor rat...ns l,y llic troops m Nova Scotia, //./-/ nu, ^IT- Ii'ciTii//*. Sec r.iuiiiniiili. . 1 • ir ■ /M... Mil..:;,, ..,ta,.„s,unc,..s coiiM not .. -'^t^;,-';- ^^ :!:i^^^;;:;>; a. Hcnniwla. II,,, 4;5<• Rel.e,ol'T-'"l>- »•'•'"»' "^ "'"'•'• ""'""•"" "' '"' '""■ "" "'"■"'' '" ^"" ""'"""' /{iv-Af 39'J- ,, . ,, , ,, ,, , „ , ,. 11 I.... . I. ■■,... iii<4ii. Ill lit'd in New imnilland, iMailldml ^''i:.;!:z:?i:'Nc«^:;:::.:\N"i:^";£t!::::; i'"- ."^k -.'"'.- '■• "•". "---"> •■■"> -'■• Wtiketield llH, '^'".V"'' 'ii^- '^li'" 7J/:it.vrf:; 1. (ieneiiil/i/. •2. t'linathi. 1. (jeneriilli/: , ,, ,1/ iJicincn's Land, llni/ -^7, -i^- •2. Canadas : , , , 1 1 i- a ... „!;\;osi,.tl .luvc'l tax. s on .lie pco,.k- .4 that colony. Kempt UH,. •.]. .New Siiutli Wales and Van Ihemen's Land : i\. Sew S„i(lh W,ilefaml Van Diemiii'^ Land. I. Suia Scotia. .\;ilti;<' of tlif nri.int^'-nicnt A\>X STO 141 liukau Lanal. Sci' Oimmiisdriiit DtimrtmeiU, j. Rint%. Military in Cuiindii nic liable to bu called out for the purpoie of qutlling riots. hcmpt ii,r,7. • Uiiilh, Mr, U. J. LcitiT from Commiswry-iinipra! Uduili to M;i)(ir Ainv, miiituiy secre- tary 111 WiK'bir, relttlivc lu llii' coininiism 'ut (lc|iurtiiiiiit in Caimda, Arc/ier 7(17, ji. ^6. S. Siiliiriei. Amount of t!ic pay of the commnnd.r of ilii' lorccs in Cunad;!, and that of the (•iimniissary-g.iicrni, sliiiwing t ho larger anu..nit of the latter, thon«li n junior olhcer, (ilriir 10^4. Sir stUtt Clw pill ills. Ih'piili/ .hiistuiil Ctmwiifniirij-gciienil. Gniermirs. I'liil/iim, Mr. Schmih. Knglish xhooU arc otablislicd anion^ the native Indian tribe* in Canada, Greig 957- Secretiiri/, See Mililurii Sfcifdin/. Sernritivs. Conir.ieiors obliged to lind security for the due perfornianee of their cngage- mcnli to the coinnnssariat of Canada, (ircifr c)Sy, jjjio. Signal Siiilioii. Non-( oniiniiiione ! olheer necessary at the signal >tation in Ikrinuda, Tiinnr 47(1 Noullicer necv, o liuve charge tbi'teof at Kerinuda, >imelt 33'2, 533. .Vmt'//, Colonel IViUiam. ( Anulyfi? uf hit Evidence.)— Cominanding a regiment at Der- ininla, 5io-,-,:j A'nount of military force and duties recjuired of tin in, .•v:3-;V27 Oninion as to ilic nccessily for inainiaining a staff assistant-singcon, o'28-53l No oliieer lequinil at the signal station, ,■,;)■!. o;i3 l'nrpo^cs to' which the boats are "i'|'''''''> .7:i4-.')3;' Wlieiher any rediicliun could be ell'ccted in the eominissariat, 537- .S3P Si.ilc of the health iif the troops in ncnnuda, .",40-,"j44 Spirits verv inurli in Use among the soldiers, 545-047 liarrack* very extensive and duties of the ordnance olViccrs very laborious, ,>48-5ji, Srin/lli, Ciiplain llfiny. (Analysis of bis Kvidencc.)— Evidence relative to the hard duty performed liy the military in New South Wales, 132-141 Manner the duties of the commissariat arc performed, 144-14(1. idi-MKi Amount of extra pay allowed witness in a civil capacity ai I'oit Macijuaric, 147-149 Particulars respecting the bad manage- ment of the barrack (hparlmeiit In New South Wales, IjO-l,'!^. Hi" Duties of the Ltovernor's l)ody-;,'ii;ird, i,",H— — Barrack deiiartmeiit would be much improved if trans- ferred to the ordiidicc, ItiM Opinion relative to reducing the commissariat in New South \V ales, 170-171! Superintiiidents over the convicts essentially necessary, 177 Uistrihiitioii of ilie commissariat inucli greater in New South Wales than in olhcr colonies, 17S. Sotilieis. See 7V'w/(j. Sjiiiili. Spirits very much in use amon:; the soldiers at Bermuda, Smell 545-547. STAIf: 4. Sew Sdiith H'((/is. 5. yiuva Scutid. I. liiiinuilii. •!■ Ciiiiiidii, A. SeiifoiDidtiiiiil, I . I'enniiilii ; Lxteiit thereof in Bermuda, Tiiriici 4tio. ■J. C'liiiiKla: Slim allowed for the sialVin Canada is esseiilially necessary, and no! capable of rulnc- tiuii, l\empt C()(i-7oo, W. \ewfhuii(lliind : Opinion respecting any rrdiirtions m the statl'at Newtbundlaud, liurlte .=175-582. I. y.'ew South Wales : Miniorandum respecling the stalVand garrison of New South Walts, Darling 73 ( )bservalioiis as to the proposed reduction therein in New South \\'ales. Darling 1 13 ."•latf appoimmeiiK in New South Wales «ill not admit of reduction, Hay 4:, Darling ■j-i Nova Scolia, /'rub' 335 Sii.tl reciuites to be increased in New South W ales. Darling fii|. ■>. Stita Sciilia : Not capable of reduction in Nova Scotia, Maitlawl -So. . Sec Storekeeper of the Ordname. Treasur,,. See Anounts, 1. Commissariat Department, 4 Reienne, 2. TlUtOl\S: 1. Australian Provinces. 'J. liennuda. 3. Canada, 4. Ceylon. 5. ^ew Uruiisuick. Government Funds. 6. 'Seivjhundland. 7. Sew South IVales. 8. Nui'« Scotia. 9 Van Dicmen's Lund. 10. Papers laid lujore the Conw,itlce. iralian provinces, and causes of their diniiiiu- as respecting those for the service ot >waM I. Aust alian rrovinces : Account ol the elective force in tlie ti,n, Hay 11, fi I'l'i"" ^irrung* Kivtr, Ua_V ly, 20. lurncr 451-4.'^. ■^""'' ''^'i ;',-' , ,'. i.\„i ;■„,„,.,• , -.7. ^=;8. :D.S.';1u "Ihuuv arfnlan.l Ul^nd, rarncr ,,J, ^^. ■"'■ ^''"""'"•' ,. . ,.„. r-madas and wanner thev are distributed, //'»V rAO" Ai.iountof niiluaiy t.Mce in ^''^* V ' ' ^^^^^^^ ihc coni- es,, Distnl.u.ion of the iroop- here ''"'^^ ' "^^ , .^ ' ^ "Vss by ^. veral hundred ;;,is.ar,;adepai,,nent, In- .r7^'5.^-- -^r^^'f-;;;^^ nun tlKin in 17:12, '^'■"'''^7f■~" "^ ,, , ' Mbdraw ans nmtion of the piocui regular ,;,,., ;^__Hca..m.«oud he iinpd^ (.,ie.-, hcmpi t.7--«>7" ''VA ■ n, f h ■ bouiularv oucstion, Kempt i^o-^H'i. 051,05^ ,,^.,_o-o Ninnh.r at tiu( bee, .ircZ/r/- 708. 4. Ceiilon: , , . u , r„.,„d impossible 10 reduce Mu. Imc ,n that island, llu, .. .;. Sen-nrnnswick: ,^.„„i,,f „, N,vv lirunswick. Uroke ^5:-:VA . Number ol troops on the i^ ^^ ; ,,^^, ^'^ ,„ ,,erease of troops, 111 eonse.,u. uce 0, Application was nuul.' Imin >-c,tl.t;iilai he mililia in i4'2. 05 1 ,05 J ;-Su8, (iicig )I1SI'(|1I(IICC lit (1 l)c .•tiiTlcd iKKip^ ilinc, -MMniii 1 liicv II' caiisi' 1)1 il"' .11 ti>;iii "' 'It - Held IZ,\ Soulli Wale-, II. \,>ri/ Colonies; 1835.] TRO WO R M3 Truopi — coiitiiiueil. 8. Nova Scotia : Extent of the military force in Nova Scotia, Hai/ 181-188, Brohe 334 Nature of their duties, Mailland aS4 Very few King's troops employed in civil duties. Broke 382 Number of soldiers ot the respective stations will not admit of reductidii, Hat/ 207-211, jUfM^/flHti 304-314, iJroAe 327. 34(i, Kempt ■j^o Amount of troops neces- sary to be mainiaiiud there duriiiij; the unsettled s(ate of the boundary question, Hay ■207-211, kempt 728-731 Military force not so strong in that colony as before the last American war, Maillaiiil 280 Amount of troops stationed at Anapolis, Mail/and 288 Great inconvenience arose from the removal of a regiment from Nova Scotia 10 the West Indies, Broke 330 LiUci of a rupture between this counliy and the United States were llie regular force wididrawn from Halifax, Kempt 73^-744. {). Van Diemen's JmihI: Various ap|)liciitions made for an increased number of troops by the lieutenant-governor of Van Diemeii'.-. Land, UflrZ/Hg 48. 10. Papers laid before the Committee: R< turn of the nunihersaiul distribution of the effective force, officers, non-commissioned olViccrs, and rar.k and file of the Britsli army, in the several colonies, according to the laie-t rclurii* nceived, ineludmi;; colonial corps and artillery and engineers, App. p. q6 Distribution of the troops on the 1st January 183-,: At Bermuda, App. p. Q'j — In C;uiada, yl/j/)./). !)8— At Neufomidiand. l:.t February 183,-,, yl/i/). ji. 97 — In New South Walts, 1st iMay 1834, App. p. 95 — In Nov.i Scoiia, App. p. 96 — In Van Diemen's Land, 1st -M ay 1 834 , .^/)/<. p. 05. For otiier maltcis relating thereto — see also Bermuda. Botindari/ Question. Canada. Citadels. Civil Department, \. Convicts,^. Frederickstown. Gaols. House of Assemldi/- Ionian Islands. Alilitia, i.t,. \ewJonndland. New Saul h II ales. A'ota Scotia. Provisions. I, 2. Ration'-. licducliuns. Jielief of' Troops. Rest of' Troops. Revenue, 2. Riots. Spirits. \ an Diemen's iMnd. iVorks, Public, 2. Turner, (icneral Sir Ililsirave. (Analysis of his Evidence.) — Governor of Bermudn, 449 Amount of military force in Bermuda, 451-453 — ^Convicts rccpiire a guard while at work, and sometimes aboaip«r.'»«^m'. 0;-,/«««cc. DeparUnenI, 3. Y. l'rti-/(f. See Government Yacht. York. See Co/HW/;.<,san«( Department, 3. iWiW,»7/ C/,«<. |1? v».