IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGKT (MT-3) W^ h ^ **% /- ^ J r/. d? r/. 1.0 ■ 5.0 "^^ m m 1.1 f.'^i i2.5 2.2 2.0 im 125 ||.4 1.6 .4 6" ^ T '/a PhotograiDhic Sciences Corporation 33 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, N.Y. M5B0 (716) 872-4503 V ft "^ \\ -<^'^\. ^>^ Wr^ AJW '.^-..-^ -^^ u- T^u- ^ lo %£a CIHM/ICMH Microfiche Series. CIHM/ICMH Collection de microfiches. Canadian Institute for Historical Microreproductions / Institut Canadian de microreproductions historiques O^ Technical and Bibliographic Notaa/Notas tachniquaa at bibliographiquaa Tha Instftuta has attamptad to obtain the bast original copy avaiiabia for filming. Faaturas of this copy which may ba bibliographically uniqua. which may altar any of tha imagaa in tha raproduction, or which may significantly change the usual method of filming, are checked below. 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I believe that whatever other predictions the hon. gentleman may have made in respect to the Canadian Pacific Railway in the past, which have hardly yet come true, whate er ot> - pre- dictions he may have made to nighv, which may yet. be falsified, one prediction he lias made, which, I dare say, he has taken stpps to see shall be verified, namely, that the Resolutions shall i.ot be lost, but shall carry. Notwithstanding, it is my duty to point out to an Assembly, which, I am well aware, does not receive with acceptance the views which I entertain, some positions which, I th.nk, are fit to be considered by the House, fit to be considered by the country, before a decision is reached on the important qius- tion which is submitt* d to ns. It is an im- portant quest ioii. The hou, gentleman has treatt*d it as one of very awall mommt to a country of such ample ex ent, of such large resources, with a glorious present, with 8 ch a woAdrous future as he has depicted, to enter into additional engage- ments involving thirty m Uions of money HS really not t f n.ach co s quence. And when it is lO absolutely certain, as the hon. gentleman has poiu ed out, that the en- gagi^mentis only nominal, formal, temporary, sure to be ledeennid, it in of less conseq'ieuce stih. But, Sir, I think the people at large - will believe that before Parliament should have be^n called on e.en to take the initia- tory step which t^hon. i^eiitleman propos s weshali this niglR' take, it wa^ vitiht that we bhonkl have been placed in pcssession of more information — more detailed informa- tion; that more light should have been thrown on the sit ua' ion in many respects than that which has been vouchsafed to us. It is not to be forgotten that for years past- we have been moving for infor i at'on upon important particulars connected with ths progress and operations of the Canadian Pacific Rail way, Oomp.ny, answers to which have not even now been vouchsafed. It is not to be forgotten with reference to that the price which the stock realized, the mode in which it was distributed atoongst the corporators, the values actually obtained for it, the prices in stock which wfre paid for certain works ; it is not to be forgotten that with reference lo the contracts which the Company have entered into, information has been asked, not this Session only, but in prerioists Sessions ; guaranteed, so far as the Government w. re concerned — in words —guaranteed, >o far as assent by this House was given — in words — but not fol- lov ed by any effectual result ; and that to- day we are asked to go into Committee in the face of thes^i repeated and inetfectual demands lor that infornv.tion, which, in part under the la.w of the land, the Com- pany was bound from year to year to supply and in |iavt, undi?r t*ie powers which this Ho' se and Government posst ss, it was on deinand also bound to supply. Information has been given us this Session wit>i, refer- i ence to this i)ropesrtl, and the usual papers have in p'lrt been laid on the Table. But I the lion, gentleman presses forward the con- '>1 \i' <* .«»*»t^v^i-^»«i*(is,»!-jiiij»t<,, t..M«aj|»KS»* ■ , -wtiaiwj^jiawtr . V> a »uleratlon of his proposal before these papers have been printed, before they be- come acoeasible to hon. members, I happen to hare been able to read in manuscript some portion of it, and only some portion, I am not aware that any other member of the two hundred and odd wlio compose this Chamber and are 8U3po»M)d to take an inte- rest m this question, have read any portion ot these papers, save the letter of Mr, Stephen, which has appeared in public pnnt. Of course I except hon. gentlemen who belong to the Administration and who i had previous opportunities for reading, as I they were responsible for these papers ; but those of us who have not had that advan- tage are called upon, as I say, to take the Mutial step without having had a fair oppor- tunity of seeing what the grounds are. The statement which the hon. gentleman him- self has made to-night— the maze of figures mto which he entered ~ varies in some particulars— not, perhaps, of any very great •«nsequenc3, but sufficiently so to derange the calculation somewhat— from that which IS presented in the letter of the President of the Company ; and some more light, it is true, he has thrown on some of tha details, m the speech he has made to us. But that light, partial though it is, dim though it U microscopic though the gleam is that is thrown on the subject— is all in respect of points on which information has been repeated y demanded, and, up to this time, practically refused. Now, Sir, the proposal IS one of extreme gravity. To those of us who remember the discussion which took place when this contract was entered into —to those of us who remember the obser- vations which from time to time were made by hon. members who sustained that •ontract, it comes as a very unpleasintr sur- prise. Why, were we not told that the •ountry felt uneasy as to the unknown quantity of the possible demands in refer- •oce to the Canadian Pacific Railway? •/ J® ^® ^°t told that the country was de- eded, and that Parliament, expressing the views of the country was determined," that •nee for aU it should be de6uitely settled v^at the limit of our obligations was] Were we not told that it was better for us to know how much it was, even thou<»h it was a large sum, and make up our minds to It, and have an end to the matter ? Why, It was only a Session or two ago that an ixr ~~rri ' -juaii tiie Uuu. muuiDor ror j the Bubjeot, then perhaps somewhat stale, 8»id that the people were satisfied about it,' because they felt snoh an ease at knowing the Umit of their obUgation. There it was, and we buckled ourselves to the work, and braced our shoulders to the enterprise, knowing the price of the Government sec- tions and the amount of the cash subsidy, and knowing perfectly well that we should not be called upon for any more. Well, some two or three years have elapsed since the contract was made, and we are called upon to advance 122,500,000 cash— a sum very nearly equal to the original subsidy, and to pledge our credit for nearly $7,500- 000 more ; so that the element of finality, which was so paraded as one of the things which was to cause the contract to be favourably received by the House and the countiy, has pretty well vanished from the scene to-night. Were we not also told, time and again, of the '^normous resourcess wealth, and credit of tue Syndicate with whom the contract was made— that this was a consideration of the utmost onse- quence— that it was so important to enlist not merely Canadians, but capitalists in other countries, in the States, in England, m Fran3e, with such ample means that they were themselves able to build a Canadian Pacific Railway 1 Were we not tM time and again that we were ensured in the successful completion of the contract by th of the it was [ ahrays lit — .was jontract, ut at a Br, 1881 nt made we opened I and Hew injf to onr at market* and most a railwa*' le." Hear* iter, it lor, the 8 "The whole r«untry M«t It. Tbe »1io1e eountry know* it. At thla moment they are laving (l3wn a mile and a half «r railway erory day, and ahottta no nnexpeeted aoofdent or ini8lortun« happen, they intend, and believe they will har<« «he whole railway x>uatnictod, from the Red River to the i«ot 3t the Roolcy Uountalna, before the auowt of 1812 fall." Well, they did not quite do that They did not quite carry out the scheme which the hon. gentleman was sanguino enough to hope thoy would carry out, namely, com- plete the railway to the foot of the Rocky Mountains by thn end of 1882. Sir JOHN A. MA.CDONALD. Very nearly. Mr BLAKE. Well, they did not do it ; and you may conceive how gigantic were their plans when that was their hope, although what thoy did do is set forth as wholly unprecedented. Now, it seems that this great combination of capital, tbe strongest that was ever formed — comprisj- ing the strength of Canada, of the United States, of England and of France — yes, the strongest that was ever formed from the beginning of the world to to-day — comes — to do what 'i Comes to ask us for some more money, in order that thoy may — earlier, it is true — ^but in order that they may implement the work which they con- i iaructed to perform ; and it seems that the ' boast which, for the last year or two, has been resounding continuously in our ears — the statement which we have heard repeated time and again, that the Government and the Parliament which passed the contract were vindicated — vindicated triumphantly — because of the wonderful display of capital, of credit, and of energy on the part •f the corporators — because they were going so fast and so far— because the}' were going to complete the railway at such an early date — is a statement which is to be taken with this rather large grain of allowance, that they will do it it we pay for it. Now, there is another point which was much dis- cussed at the time of the conti*act, and in respect to which also this night vindicates our position . VVe heard the hon. gentle- man point out — with an appreciation, some three years late, of what the interests of the country require — that it was important, in the interest of Canada, that there should be a new allocation of the subsidies for the constr'.'.ction of the road. It has now dawned upon his mind — he has now after three years of reflection and experience ascertained — that it is positively dangerous to Canada that the road should be paid for not by a pro rata but by a mileage rate. He siys that in the interest of Canada — not at all in the interest cf the Company, oh no % — it is important we should take care that tho Company does not got an ex«»- sive subsidy forthe lighter work that remains to be done, because if that should happen when they come to the heaTy 95 miles of which he spoke, where would be the money to build it. He forgot that they were already at the 95 miles, that they were stopped there and that the difficulty was not in the present condition of thocoatraot, that the money would be gone in thss lighter work before thoy came to the heavy, but that they wore at the heavy work and they wanted to get part of the money allo- cated to the light which is to come after. Bu*-, as I said, it is about three years too late, and I am sorry we could not persi'.ade tho hon, gentleman at an earlier period of the soundness of the view he takes to-night We argued that the subsidies should be dis- tributed in proportion to the whole cost of the work. We declared that it was im- portant, in the interest of the country that, if certain lands and certain moneys were to be ptwid to this Company for the work, they should get it in proportion as the total amount of subsidy was to the value of the work to be done at a particular point W« pointed out that the hon. gentleman was applying a different principle — and to that very portion of tho work which would b« earliest done he gave a wholly dispropor- tionate part of the subsidy. We pointed out that thus the resources which were to be retained for the heavy work would Im gone before the ho vy work was reached, and we begged that the principle of pro rata distribution should be applied at a time when it might have been usefully applied. But the hon. gentleman could not be per- suaded by us. Oh, no, he said, we admit that the subs'dy is wholly disproportionate for the prairie part relatively to the subsi- dies for tho other pai't of the work. There is no doubt, that we might arrange to pay according to the proportionate value of the work. But wo deliber&tely declino to adopt any such principle. We intend that the earliest and lightest work shall have far more in proportion than that v/hich is to be givon for the late and heavy work. Now that the Company have come to tho heavy work they want the position reversed. They have had all the benefit practically of the other position, of getting a dispropor- tionate shar3 of the subsidy on the principle of mileage rates assigned to the different f) I i fl ,.»K-<;J5(«A4;SSW«®«M- jh.i] apply Vi^r^htet: '•"""^^^ that difficulty. I have ^ i "^ °"* °^ which were due to the l^lr f.^ '^°"'^«« »o.e, and it i« necessar. to '*>« ^orkare enquiry ig made aTTnT-^ ^. ?®*' ^^"^ '"" Pnme duty of this Ti^ u .^^ " the Prc^hing'thlotUtS^ .'^P whether it will oivl t^e question prime duty ofTisHoLT'- ^* ^^« the J«ot^ "Ito^^hetapSXmtlf '*'^^«"^- l»»vuig more-it was tJ,«T . .^"^'^'"'^ o^ to watch it, havin7a^t7 tte ''^- ?°"«« jee what the contic erTanS f "^^ .*° Jiow the work was ~o ®'*.""<* ^o c -nsider day, wheni irfnHi /^^r*^^'^: but to- the%lans il^Sl c^ '° ^'^"'^^^ ^^ Oovernment have «nf ?°"'''?°^ ^"^^ tli'^l that .his enornt^ara^Sl^l/r T It becomes obviouHJv « . ^® '"^'^'e, our part to ascen: '„ 1 o^C' '"*^ ^" ' •the past really stands how tt ha?r""5/"'' so iarge a sum hi« v. 'tnappens that -rk Ihich hTs tentile^a^'^'' j" *^« ^ prairie in the North WW ,T' ^'''' ^^^ ' ing what the hon It^I ' '^"^^^^^ "^^'^"''^t- ! I app..hend th"t in'^Cnln^of ^'"" ^^^^' ' and, I presun.P 1-Jl .^^^^^^H'^nevj,, -ad in S'So;th\veT tr""^"?^' ^'- must have cost Zn^J)- ' ^^^ ""*'" ^'ne 000 a mile and il ''"^ '' "^°^ •^^^'- ' Bee how «uch"V.ut:o:;wT '^'"."^'^ *^ the fair cost J ^ ^^^ Justified as through thTco:LT''T''''. '}'' ^'-^ price which tholo7"^en T" ^u'^ ^' ^^« to Che branches inThe ClXt" o'*^^,^ hnd a vnry different uf»/ ' ^o" ^''^ mileage co't Se it Ij't T, '^'•^^ and I repeat now thtr i °*^^^ ^'^y- i thi6.xper.s is nobfif . ^'"'^^ P°"i°« of cannot l„,ld a litav^at I'h '' ''"^''^- ^^^ this has bte . buUt win,!;* f^ '^'^ ^* ^^^•'^1^ ;t^constructionta:t"w'SffT'•:'"'• huilt at the ordinary spe.dnv '^'''*' «ot so extraordinary a, %n . * '^""^^ "absolutely unpZlleZd^ f '''^'"'^ such speed as thi\ m-J ^ repeat to location, wheth;r wi^ 'f "'""'" ' economical afran clement? f "^^^'"^'^'^^ *« whether with reC L" fn .r^'"'"'^^* «"' labour or mater als^L '^f '"''^'^ of heeu built as oheaplV a h''''^^ ^'^"' I i^ras b«iit;ast'e::.u".?v*-^^«\l — '-f^ ii a more I ^noderate rata «*• i ,'~ '^ " ^non But there i:U--lS^--^^ -Tmrtl^J'^^HowTa^'T^ "*^-*-» BywhomWitblTbum/S'r '".fi for information unon !l ! \have called law called for it Th« n *** T'^J^^^^^- ^^^ «'ay Act made ii th?!??'"^^^***^'^ «*»- Company to return tot "Jj'^.^^ty o^^l-i* , -ays in 'each year^' the 3^^^ J ^' ^'^- I coutracts which hJl . of June, the struction of'te't ^ay "t '^/^^ -"" vioated by this Gomplnv TK ^r,.^*** ateiy disoU^jed i* St^' 7}"^^ ^^l^'^^r- those contract! kJ ^^ f''^ ''''' ^'^^ of that violat on I 1T7' """^ ^"^^^•"^'''l the contmcts Eve„tuJ[lv T^'P'^^f^'^ ^^r contract and the in«f" ^/ '^^'^^'^ for one of the North Ame, '"'"""' °^ association Pany, but PHilianTe: TcS'^t^ "^T law enforced ami « iJ ^ °'*^« the production of thL "^ ''°* "'"^^^ *!»« i preferred to be k'nt ^f^'-"' Parliament i these things which thn i '^"lorance as to ! be disclosed. 23 l'"^ *^"? "'^^^ ^^ould I Parliament has ve^lL T ' "A^*"*' ^^^^^ougli -thin the ?^tTJ^'dar:ith'^\^^'" unanimously passed A ? "^though we the productiorof ,tn '''"' '^^^'""^ ^o^' representinc/t at /''''''' contracts and consequen e° tt ^^j J- o^ bigh public f eyed and thotUtctThouSt' '^ duced, still the law is ^.o/V? i ^.? P'''^' eontracts are notZ.^i , ^^^'^'l' «*^" the iu the «peecron 7 -^ ■ '"^"^ " ^« only invites the House to ^'^'""''J^'' ^^en he the Whole to coIdeftH^'' ^"'"■'^"*'^^ ^f we are let fn n^ ^''^'^osition tbat character of 't'^.e" a'?"" '^'^"^' ^"^° ^^e struction. And the I, """""1 ^^'^ ^^n- informs us thrt Vl , "; S^^'^^^mRn now ' a contraidng or ^:r;fe ;:! '^^" '^^^ ^ ?-^;:th^t^^-:,£i=^ ^hen thev con 1,1 nA I ' ^ termmated keep ti;7onsTr L: 3'' ^"'^ "^'^^y to I annlngst the sums en 1.; '^f"^ ^"^"^ ' '^^^ u^«,^)o,ooo,xru;:ts.;^^;^jo^ Company claims cred t fn.. „ ', "* of the ' aeoit b lance a<'ai)isf ^ho „ j. ;. ' ^ '^'' r«"y, and in t"Zot Z'TI""' """■ \ their hands already, paid in advance. And it seems these were the arrangements, so far as light has already been thrown upon them, })etween the Company and its con- Btmction company. Now, Sir, I do not tlink I do injustice to the Company and its corporators in assuming, since the hon. gem Ionian has said that many members of the Company were corporators in this Com- pany, that several directors of the Company were corporators in it. I may say I have no knowledge on the subject. I have moved repeatedly and I have been unable to obtain the information as yet. The hon. gentleman indicates that he will lay it on the Table, shortly ; I suppose after we have decided what we shall do. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. To morrow, I hope. Mr. BLAKE. To morrow. Then we are not going to decide to-night, I hope. "Whether I do injustice or not, I shall as- sume, in the absence of the information, that several of the directors of the Company are also members of the construction company. • Now, what relation does a director of the Company who conti'acts with the Company, ; whether as a member of the construction companv or not, occupy? As a director of the Company he is bound to consider whether the contract is a tavourable one tor the Company or not. As a member of the contracting company he bound to con- sider whether the contract is favourable to the contracting party or not. It is a some- what difficult task which he undertakes to decide, to hold the balance just, to do no in- justice to the railway company, and to do no injustice to the contracting company, under such circumstances. Parliiment has thought that men ought not to be placed in such an invidious position, and for fear that in the conflict between their interest aod their duty, interest might prevail over duty, it has forbidden sach arrangements; for in the Consolidated Riilway Act of the hon. gentlemen, it is provided that: " No person ho ding any office, . place or eniployment in or beinK concerned or interested in any contract und.r or «ithtlfe Company. Hh...U be capable of ^^l^^J^^J^'Z;, K.r or of holding the office of director: nor shallan} person being a director of the Company enter mto "/Jl^"^^^ l''' indirect y for his ow.i use or benefit mterest«d in any con iract with the company not relating to the P"^«^»«^ °^ '^^;,^ necessary for the railway, or be or become a partner of anj contractor with the couipany." And if, therefore, it be the case that this eontracting company is composed pi-actically to a large extent— to any extent — of di- re<;tois of the railway company which made the contract, I apprehend they have vio- lated not merely the spirit, but also the let- ter of the law; and that wc may look with not unnatural suspicion upon any such con- tract. The law also provides that no con- tracts for work of construction or main- tenance, etc., shall ba entered into until after tenders have been inviteti in adver- tisements given at least four weeks in some newspaper published in the place nearest to that at which the work is required to be done. I do not know how many hon. mem- bers saw the advertisement published by the Canadian Pacific Company calling for tenders. I do not know in what newspapers it was published, I dare say it waf, P"*^ lished ; but I d*re say it was published jin newspapers which do not receive a very extensive circulati m. I know i was never able to hear of any invitation to the general public to tender for the works of the Canadian Pacific Railway Conapanyj andl am not surprised if, as a matter ot fact, the works coiistiucted by the railway company have been construccod by a con- tracting company composed largely ot the directors of that corporation. Now, we pointed out when the contract wa^ being discussed in Parliament the possibility ot I arrangements of this description, the possibility of a larger price bemg thus oo- itainedfortbe work' than the work really cost; and I say again that we are entitled —especially are we entitled, in view ot the refusal to inform us, in view of the defiance of the law to which 1 have referred, m view i of the statement made at this last moment by the Minister,— we are entitled to full ana searching enquiry into this matter as a pre- liminary t« considering what further and moi-e intimate relations we shall engage lu with this corpoi-ation. It may be, althoug i i the contracting company has been dissol- ved, or has ceased its operations, that, n tue ' fountains of Can idian liberality are opened once again, inasmuch as the hoa. gentleman : said it hid stopped because the supplies had I stopped-when the supplies aro re-opened the company may be reorganized and we i may find that just so long as our bberahty '] lasts the contracting company will be ready : to spend the moneys which we liberally pro- vide But, I do not think than will be i satisfactory to the people of the country ^ .nd T maintain that full enquvy upon this i Subject, searching • enquiry exhaustive eu- I quiry, rigid enquiry, should precede, if this 5 House is to do its duty, any recognition of i any demands made by the Company, or any u i -hould further int.?. "*™?*' *^*k we ^«^e»'eenu«ed h^ 'i. the public f„nd« «any coneiderationR »k 7.^ ^"^^^ ^"^ ««d as pertinent to t J *" ^*^ ^'^^ "r- ! he laid befoJ; us ^ ll^l ^^'^^ ^hioh P««t, I pointed out tho^oS,^""' ^" '^« point out to-niffht th.f .1, ^^'^ ^^y' »"d I than the qu.s fon\f . ."'* '"^ '""''^ ^^re that there were t^oL^'; *" *^« °>'»"er; •ides; that if you aliV r^* k' '^"^*'°"« ^'«- was the guestbn of th^ '^''^' ^'■^'*' there solved in%he varions nfl. ^^"'^•'•"*y ^'»- which thehon.rnSeman r '''^''P''"^^> to allusion. Therf wn. , ^^ "°* ""^^^^ an the energy, the timnH^u*^^ 'i"«-^t»«'^ of <«nnectif^Virh thositllf °r ^""*^'^«'* ^« 'resides .11 that there J^"" f J^rises; and tion of policy involved^n 1 ' ^''^^^ '^"««- the position and oblldtn T^T^ ^" aiands upon public S. "**^*' *^« ^e- to do, accordinff tn tvZ^ *° ^^ obliged ^oro "Mnl^,l*^iXf?n""^"°''>- notconnectedwifch fh«l • • ? «nterpmes *", so disconneT 5 wi^hTtT T''''"^^ ^' •mple as were the^corno *^ ' "'^'' '•''^«' were not adequate LonEtheTr^' ''''^ la those enterprise^. buThi • ^ ^"^^rage them in acme sort tW k!!"^ ^"««««d in their director/or otfeS ^i^ T''^'"' ^'^ T^hich we knn«r „^ "»iwise, m the way in ters beyond tloTrT^'"' "^*^" ^^ ^« °^at wereobUtotUZr^r Tr.' *^''^^' last year-for leai^IfiTr *^'°'' '<^ ''^^ engage formal t^and,*' ^^^ V^e'n to other enterprises; ^nd evertW^ ^^ *^««« J* seems, has no beerf „nf -f^"^**^*^"' the occasion, for we hL k / adequate to present moment Another mf^ "' *' *^i« I additional powers ?ot. '^l *° «^^« them f direction of eTiterDri^S ^^/^''ther in this hy. nor embraced Tnfh ^^"^emplated I-y, Sir, thr/ou eannotc^TJ l^^^-^'^' arrangement of tL fi ^ ''°''«^«'^e by any , were accut^te as I t,.f l^'^T^''^'^ ^f they ' that they ^ele Zt. pretn ,f " ^^^"^ -* oonclude even by such !« ^~"^°" ''^"not ^ he has put forward ,-r.y°^ ^^"^^^ maintained^ fcK„7r--, 'k- *^'^ "^^^^ be Jitled to eipe^t f^oT'^.^^^'^n'^" "^^^« «°- *eenaccomAed '^^^^J" ^ompany has weaonot know that I the Ififficulties in wIiJ..i. *k * ■«Jve. are not duet! '^7 ^nd them- Mone. NorT^r U^ J«»«thin« by them upon more than ;„« Z„ ^I^" ^X ^^nne o'fouroccasions-lto ZT^.r^-^'^ '^^ jContnM.twas let wL/^l *""' '"^o« "»i« Railway Compan^wf. ^ ''^"^'^ «' the wording to the stateuiont. nTT'^T^ *°- Company itself, and afl ° ^''^ ^*"^«r I have pointed out tu/*r°^'l'^*'^ them, thought they had 1 ^^^ ^ « I that^they^tooS'in "'"^'^r' '^^^'^ position. But i;r«/„2"derfully g^ : that no mattoV how n,^^^*'** ''"*• ^*tely, ■ tract, ro matter hmT T^'^'^^t the con , the enterj.rr?a.s onlr'^^'t'^^P^^tion 1 «« to x^qnire the undJ^ided'^n '"'^^^^tude ■ vo ion of those concerned .""J^^ "^^ ^'- q»»ragreacpruden<» LT^ ^ '*' « to re- ; in the conduct ofT;irl°™ ^""^ ^P^tj I fortune which as loll -^'T- ^^'^"^*'°ts of i ably possessed. miL't S?' ^'i ?'^^"««tion. results disastrous to th^ ^'^ '^^^ P^-^^ent I pointed out ^f'i^ corporation. And dangers existed' in the V"' ^ '^""^^t pf that corporation and Tn'^ *°^ <^°"d"ct in a vague way fJ^V^ '°™" °t' these, ijnded this cvenhfg. We ^ ^^^'f"*" '^- i the wide powers w k ^l^tended against ! tension of braneh^ t "°' *° the ex. th« hon. gentlnrn L?"''' "^'^^ ^^th than one in^the S-^e^ CL'^^'^^^« a necessity. T },„^„ 'T^st lerritories ar« jtold him so when h/^'""^'^ "^^ ««• I Canadian Pacffic ti W ^"°^°"°^ *^» 'agreewithhim-thonl>,T^ measure. I Pri«ed to hear him °?o„^ 1^ » «ttle sur- prised to hear himTv «.! 1^ * "ttle sur- branch lines this P^^ I'^'^t some of the more importance t£7^"'^ ^"^ ^""t are of main trunk C HowT ''''^'''' °^th. I with his jyeneraf ^^y ^^ ^-^^onciles that line, I do LtTnow buT h'' '' *^« '"^^ >'econciIe it with th'n T^°^^^"" ^« ^^T , the sentiment whichle / '^'"*' ^^^ ^^^th twice this evening tLVfr''^^' ^ think, li^^ies that are mnr« • ^^^'^ are bmnch sections of JheT- ?P°''tant than some Pacific nlnZ "^But r ^'^ P'^''^ referencp tr> thJ: . . ^ contended witk branches, that it w J • '^^^^''^nce to it» should k^ep our conZ, 'T/?°* "^^^ we decide for^:z:iT'^^:^y-^f^^^-id -Uf might hV:Vt dtlT^ 'h" f'«.d. b^yfind them- >thiii^ bj them «nmr fortimr 'n—tjpon throe oat sinoe thh poaitiott of the *■ it, aooording >Temincnt, ac- r the Railway •nceivod them. 7 had, as I lent contract, lerfuJIy good a out, latoly, 'ent the con- 8 1 bo position h magnitude orgy and de- ^^t aa to re. and capadtj elements of unqueation- ta prevent 'tion. And I thought nd conduct « of these, ntleman al- ied against *o the ex. igree with p railways itories ar« id so. I )0sing the >asure. I little sur- •meofthe ilt are of ns oftha iiles that le trunk be may ree with I think, 3 branch »n some '^nadian d with inadiaa > to itg bat we should ght be i funds which ed, t« Ihe constmction of the contracted line, might be direrted to other purpoaeii : and I felt that each time the Unnadian Pacific Bail way Company, while this contract was yei incomplete, came to Parliament to obtain power to acquire or build an •xtension, or to acquire or build a bt anch, it would be pertinent to enquire, how are you getting on with your main contract 1 What ia being done 1 How is the money holding out t Or, is it certain that this enterprise in which you are proposing to engage will not inrolve you in one way or another in Hach sort that the conditions •f your contract may be imperilled ? All that was cast to the winds, and Parliament decided, at the instance of the hon. gentle- man, to give a practically unlimited power with reference to extensions and branches — not absolutely an unlimited power to tmild in all directions, becaise it did not include power to run up through the eastern part of Ontario, as has since been done — but short of that, an unlimited power. Well, now, it has been said that what has been done, in ho far as the hon. gentleman discussed what has been done, is all right ; that it was important for the eountry, and that it was important for the Company, that the money should be judiciously expended, and has been so — and apon that subject I will trouble the House a little later. With reference to the route, however, the hon. gentleman has not touched upon that subject to-night. Although he announced that he was about to make his genei-al statement as to the progress of the work, he did not think fit to embarrass the discussion by details upon ihe subject of route. We contended that too wide powers were given as to the route, Ihat they would probably be used in a way which Parliament might not approve, that the road would probably be deflected too far to the south for tlae national interests, and that the special interest of the Company, as a monopolist and a cheap construe or, might be found to overbear those consider- jitions which had up to that time fixed the route in another direction. Those interests have prevailed, and the road has been run ▼ei y far to the southward. At a very early period, the Company decided upon running the road by Calvary, which meant upon running it via Kicking Horse Pass, oi some route in th<»t neighbourhood. They decided mpon so doing before it was found that any 1^188 was feasible ; they have stuck to that ever since, and we have not yet had laid before us such information as sei-ves to show that even now a past within the oontruot ia feasible. On the contrary, the information laid before us indicates that no road can be constructed by that route within the mean- ing of the Canadian Pacific Railway con- tract ; that the lowest maximum grades that can l>e obtained far exceed those maximum grades which are accepted as the standard grades, those, uamoly, of the Union Pacific Railway ; and I maintain that without an Act cf Parliament it is not within the power of the Executive to sanction the passing of the read by a route which does not give the grades which were prescribed in the contract, else the Exe- cutive alters, and does not execute, the contract Well, then, Sir, much trouble has arisen already, and more trouble will arise, from the use of another power to which we objected, namely, the power of issuing stock for less thnn its cash par value. Wo pointed out ihat under this plan stock might be issued to an amount in excess altogether of the real requirements of the road, for considerations much less than its par and nominal value ; that oppor- tunities for the creation of speculative interests, lor arrangements disadvantageous to the country in many particulai-a, might result from the exercise rf such a power, and that ultimately the road would be load- ed, as too many roads are loaded, with nominal capital far in excess of the money really required for its construction; and we find that that is so. It is true that no one, I do not believe that the hon. Ministers themselves, had the slightest idea of tlie extent to which ihat power would be used, because they would have been wanting in their plain duty to this House if, having the slightest idea of it, they had allowed the contract to go as they did, $25,000,000 was named as the maximum capital, and all our calculations and discussions were predicated upon the idea that that was tho largest capital this Company would issue^ the largest nominal capital. It might re- present a much smaller sum in cash. But availing themselves of a general authority in the Railway Act, which was made ap- plicable to them under the hon. gentleman's provisions, they not long after incorpor- ation increased their nominal capital to $100,000,000. Now, no one pretended that they wanted $100,000,000 of money. It was with the view of issuing stock at ai : i 4 • 1 «"« of the inciZr/n ',"'''*''• ^""' t""e ti.e J.on. AIi,a«te; n/ n •, ^ "' ""'"« tliat U ion he I rtaf ^". '■'^^•'*^'^ ^'•"'» what the roa, really r,''*^«T^ '^''^ '' was nal amount ofZiUltt^''^ ?V^'' "*^»»- *ni, so far as w« i ^ ''°"'' ^'i""!'' «ov- *>ecau8e the Comrinv *'"''''" ""^ ^^ it, ^ere about to aZe^to""'""''^ *''«* ^^«3^ their capital dnS^? P*^ ^'^'^'-^st upon •"ay be paid diuinlll: '*•''? ^^""^ '"te^-^Bt actually paid un«?i?i^ "Pon the amount -« paid up ,"^k he'V'''^ l>eing issued itself to be entUled fo ^T'^^^V assun.ed I -aintaJned b efr ,nd'r'""'^*^"^ "P" that that is an ilC'i ' " ^'^i^tain now. Railway \ct wl Ih*^- T''*''^"; t'»at the for their UkuJil^ \'^^ only authority and upplytgTtttK: ;^^^^^ during construction evpSv U ':"'''':'' somewhat dan2tro..^n!ri^!^ . "*« *^faat ..n I 1 '^, "■"''""«« i" tho time what «5r,.00 / JoTf r7\^"'' *''^" «'-'^' a"d wHearn tha JM ^''?*^'' ^''^^ "-^al'^-ed hasbeendistriCed onT"r "'"' ""^"^ » greater discount fcC^n^. """ ''^''^^^ *' «tock has been em t^d at 4in r, T' *''" panyas near a8 maybe (L\V *^'^ ^'*"'- to what extent the W* 7"'''^°''"o«^ it« nominal holf';^^;X'i?:'"'^'"*-'' pay $5,000,000 in cash ?.? • -K '^«''*^ '« r ''ave no doub" they'd J?*^'"£^^''^P'''''- does that now renrLn • ' ^"' '"^^"^ C'ompany ? No doubt?. "* "'^^'''^ °^ '^^ more than $r,, 000 000 '5/*'P"*'««".*« nmch What did the; take b«r.. .r '"""'» °»«"' » $80,000,OOoT Wilt r *''«^«'»'tted the made for the disZ^ L ''"/"«*'">«nts were o( Bfcock/ theTn 'o • '^'. ^^^000,000 cash for itssS\ht!K'''*".^'°'^^'^'««<*in our liability. a?it"o t M iltaT"" °' the reduction of tolls I n^ °'' *'" *<* know it further, because ^f """ '''''"' '« considerations win'ra radUr^tr '''' nvitmg us to sanction this jol/l/'^ Company. I have seen aoL "* *^'^ pnblic oninion «n ni r **'"® organs of I with res ; ct "to th 8 1'"'"^'^. «« *° ^-'^re ;neoeasity of doL 1 Pl^P^-^'^'O" that the Pany wis mtTLrr '','"« ^"^ '^« ^om- was-actually seilira tf ^T^""'' ''' «*°«k I five centsLad^jt. ^i^'^'^"^^ «%" I had fallen so low it ^IL ^"^ ,^^^«^ ^^^e stock ! never could Jwh "poor t.,'^'^"' '''^' -« ! any more at such alL If^'"^' *^ i««"e have said, those ^r^'^^tb.- """'.^ ^ wereill-inforined • tliPv i,« ^ "^ '"^ "^P^^ion character of the opeSon " 1^"^^' ''^ '^« emitted H nomind amount tf ^.'^^""^ beyond what was reouTea ,t a T^ '''' i They preferred to cJthT • ^^^''^nnt. 'Of)0,000 instead of^o 000 0(7' V^ '*^^^'- better. Thev feh ]lrl J ,^^ souuded bad $100,Ooiooo • ::ad' IT^.''''' '^^y a»d it gavetherc S^.J.^'^^'f^ tages in issuing a k.Jp , I- '"''^ *"^'*n' -uuities for arise, beca.frf.^^r ^^'^ «.PPor- I i# '-i««3 for a ..ue%.:rr/rst O'J- Minister of •»n(i J)« „ai,i j,„ '^'*" kind and •edbuco in tho f" for tlu' first ■k httsreiilizufi^ zti'l only ^25.' '»e tJiat non« '"!en issued at •er part, tho *t to the Com- '^e not to know ijas increaned They wero to ginal capital. But what stock of the eaents much w«ich more t emitted the fiionts were !5^5,000,00O ' authorized ok taicen, if purch eof 1 Railway ? i*ie of deep 'It to know >btained in nieabure of ttfcion as to '^e want to » upon the 'd to us in an to the organs of to declare 3 that the the Com- its stock »ly tifty- the stock ■ that We to iaaiie But as I ' opinion Jcl by the 'ompany iock far iscount $100,- louuded iHt they 00,000, air van-, nterest oppor- iv.er to cet Htook no from rtftv towardH par than if ently that o«r posut^m ih not quite »o ad- it wa8 iH»u d at par to neoaie priceH conBid- vantageoiib an that of a partnemhip. V\ e erablvahoveP'.- 1 hivoHhown the Houho may If- tixpo^ed to the rink, but it W not thartlt stock of the Con.pmy ha, »>e«n likely we Hhall have any of the proht. e^r.itted at an average price net to the Com- Then we objected to the .nono,»oly, and I pa V of fortv-Hix, and upoM this thev have think events have viadicutml that objection. i« eV to pay in erent it ^5 on tl^^^ It h.H been shown to be a very senouH which .ueans a rate of uhnost eleven per obstruction to the settlemeat of the Nor.!,- an^per annum, payable half yearly. These ' West. It has been shown to be a very evil noor 'people whon/ you are aske.l to asBist thing in the \Z''''\'''''^ ^T ' Zlt '-tl'e e iergetic people who want to push ; than country We objected very sti^.g^y this railway on fot you so fast -took suffi to what we believed was a wholly un»u - cient care of then.-elves to arrange at an , th..riz., practice, of the monopoly ^hich the hoa puVinto the enterprise they sho.d I get . gentleman inauguiated-I "»« *>);; V^^*- about eleven per .ent. while construction : advme.lly-when he advised the d.sallow- was going on and stock is to be sold and ance of certain railway cUrt^rs u^n th« subsidiHS are to be obtained and advances 1 prmcpleg upon which he did so Ihe hon He to b« gathered in, and laml grant bon.ls | gentleman is vejjr fond -hen he can, o ure to be Realized, in order that, durin? co..^ ; sheltering himselt under the «'Xt« of tUose struction eleven per cent, i-.terest may be [ whose past, a* a general rule, he bosies hi.u- pa?d to the Comprny. Presently the/de- self in roproachir ind reviling and despis- Kd that Uiey ^ould ftaish construction 1 ing But u,.on tins occasion he is entirely veVy quickly, and then they decided they wrong in saying that the p. hey of the pre- would have a guarantee .u. to interest. And ceding Government furnishes an authority They announfed an arrangement whereby, 1 for his policy. There are wo reason, even after construction, for a long period I ag.m«t .t The »" /«' /^f^^^^^^Jf^ of years, the bulk ot this dividend is to be ', done at that tinae-though ^t.-as °o* ^iS" actuallv «aa anteed. It seems to me thit ! allowance, but even supposingit equivalent when vou find a nominal stock proposed to to a disallowance-was ^^one ^t a^jerj^^ be emitted of $100,000,000, when Parlia : when n.ilher the r^'l^/^^^^j'^^^^^T;;*^^ ment supposed $25,000,000 would be ex- Pacific Railway nor the Bystem ot con- Hva^^ when y^u find th t a part of struction of the Canadian Pac, he liailway thT^to kCbeeremitted at an Lver.ge -whethe. it sho.ld be by a Government or Price of forty-six only; when vou find a Co.npany-nor the terms ot cmstructiou !"an.emente made for tho payment of a were settle!; and I mamtam as have d Sua upon that average price of abou. maintained .e^fore, it is an entirely dilerent eleven percent.; when you hnd the Com- thing to say you will control the railwayH pany asking, in calculating the sum of this | o^" a country, through ^vh^^y^^Tlov expenditure, that you should give it credit ' Government railway worked ^'7 the Gov- for making that provision tor eleven per i ernment, and to say you wil control them <^nt upon its inlestment, it must be evi- when you have handed that radway over dent that these things require to be enquired | to a private corporation. As long *« ^^^^^ into • that thev require to be sifted and an- 1 a Government railway it is the peoples inio, buab gild yi. •pon wl,r* „ ^ *> '^"^ ■^'^rfct.\ir«-t '"•a xg actuaJIv i,. -i. ' ^ soon aja tU * *^«<' "upes to ffiW *!•„ -..-i. „"'6'ii>— I sii:;r.noo L. / .? ^"" at unrom. .. '' *«e rami ^q^j^ long con. j^ i mi i ,• li , i^ wn'i i -' i i» j^.»' 11 ^an.toba and ;B«cau8e th« •e, what iriti ^««. and tiiei. I *^« claw« 80 entirelj ^ no eonse- ^* grass:" » that the Pn' « feed °« poop'e *• oontroJ, '« he cails "7 was a iioiUafced 'ace th« y nion- in the power, at has ^er* that untrr iouJ,*t loua. eces- the > it eve- thai eee ctfle Je- M a- r» c f i we've taken it into account as, as honest I men, we ahonld, and we are paying them in advanoe for that nnremunerated run- ning.'^ Well, having paid them in advance for that unremunorated running, it is now- argued that the rates should be such as to remunerate them, and therefore they are to be paid double, first in advance under the contract, and then by the people of the North-West — or, according lo the state- ments which are made, the people <^ the North-Westareto paj'in both cases ; because, if those statements are to be credited, the North- West is to pay the whole contract price out of its lands so that it pays, tirst in advance under tho contract for cheap rates, and then pays de»r rates after the contract has been accomplished. Now, 1 have been unable to observe that the speed with which this enterprise has been conducted has con- duced to its success. I have been unable to observe that those who have been concer- ned in it have had such miraculous powers of intuition and of judgment and decision iis to reach conclusions more rapidly than tliey need have been reached, and at the same time rig'.itly. Hasty decisions have Vtoen taken, different plans have been adop- ted; and these have indicated, from time to time, the absence of that careful considera- tion, that prudence of action, which was essential to make this enterprise a success. Take ibr example what was called the 8ault HUi. Marie Branch. At a very early period iu the history of the undertaking, it was announced that the Company was about to build a blanch to the Sault Ste. Marie. At that time other oomp'tnies were thinking of t'tiiking for the Sault Ste. Marie, but the great Canadian ]*acific Eailway Company announced that it was going to build a hrancli to the Sault Ste. Marie. It was aiinouiiced iu public, and the hon. Minister told nuf, "Your views are about to be ful- filled; you said the Sault ought to be reached, and they are going to reach the Sault.' Well, a little while later, the hon. gentleman ifceived a communication to the effect that they had altered their views. Tliey had sent in their plans in winch they called this the Siiult Ste. Marie Brand). They had HOW decided to make the main line by the Sault Ste. Marie; and they asked that their plan, which was called the plan of a branch might be made the plan of the main line so fai'; and they announcei that their engineers Iiad gone over the road and found a prac- ticable ronte.; audit w&samuch better thing, although more expensive, for other reasons mueh better than the former rente; and .the hon. Minister acceded, with the reservation advised by his engineer that, until they had established on the ground the possibility of connecting Fort Arthur with the Sault or the neighborhood of the Sault, the subsidy should be retained. Well, they were going on, and, at that same demonstration at which the hon. the First Ministei' made the observations to which I have alluded, be spoke at length upon this subject, and he told what a gi'eat thing it was for the coun- try, what a great thing it was for Ontario in particular, that it was now arranged, and that the change of route was about to reduce the period of construction on the north shore of Lake Superior by many years. Not long after, the whole collapsed. There is no letter breught down — I know not whether any such exists — explaining it, but, Tirithout any explanation given to Pai"- liament or the public, the plan is altered, ani they determine to carry the main line through the interior, they go back to the old route; and then they determine to build a branch to Algoma Mills; and that is fhe plan upon which they have been working since; thus shewing no less than three chan- ges of plan, and indicating, as I have said, that this extreme haste of execution i.s very aptto If'ad to ha&ty, and very possibly, to imprudent and erroneous decisions. And we were told that it was of the last conse- quence that the Algoma Mills Branch and the connecting link to the eastward of it should be early built. We were told that it was going to be a great thing for us this coming year, that the immigrants should go by this short and speedy route to Port Arthur. We were told we should see the Canadian Pacific Railway carrying the immigrants by that route, a splendid route, so many miles from Montreal to Algoma Mills, than the twenty.four hour.s' voyage from Algoma Mills to Port Arthur, and so on. But the newspapers tell us — and I believe in this case they tell the truth — that that is not to be the route at all; that the steamei-s are to sail from the port of Owen Sound for Port Arthur, that the busi- ness is to be done from the poH of Owen Sound and not from Algoma Mills this year; that the immigrants are to be carried by the Ontario and Quebec and the Toronto, Grey and Bruceto Owen Sound, and that the voyage is to be from that port to Port Arthur, and not by the other route at all.. ,j-^/..*,?.,; *» »t •ppeaw that for the nw.M,- i <>' getting a «>ute to 1^7^'^^ P^'P^^ our own territoi-y faril ^?^-^^t within »o neo«Mtv Z tiT"^"^^ ^^^^ '^- jWoh was SaadTn bSinHt k"^^^°» -J;igoma MiJk Jf the k!? ^® ^"^<* ^ ^niB is not to be tho ; ^•''''^ *** A «o«na ^""yiiigth»tbinchTo7!J- ^ ^^^y^'t of olose upon «2.000,Soo Xch b^^'^^'^^ '^* pended in its 8d«^]^ " "*^® ^>een ex- ^d that the ffof ^r''"*''^^^ ^ If you Tear, that the tifer'^^'^^" '^oxt ^ Igoma Mills «? all b«f k^ *J^«°®«' "o* by ^iil you not hnd thai n ^ ^"'^ '^"»>df Rapidity of decisit/trSref'^ «^^^*^' ture expenditure, in e^n"!.^^ "^ P^^^a- i>avmg regard to he other nm'';-"" ^^^^^ company, and tothediffiln '^\*^.°"«ofthe possible would suri4u^' K*'*'" "^^'^ " ^a« turns out have s.C^l^^^' '\^ ^^^^'^ ^* W been deferred ? TW ^'"' ¥ ^^^^ «ion with reference to A **r, the deci- to which, lC::m^^l'^-^- '^"*«' fear a mistaken decision^^X ^ ^""^"^ i have never said anvthin?. rfr««>und. ?^ puUio before buTr K^"P*'"''^««uWeot ^nfomauon as I tuld t'k "f""'^' «"«^ ^i»om I niet, who hl^ °^ everybody western j^n'oJtL Xav"^, ^^ ' ^^^ «d to say that t^.«: .^' and lam obliir- -t^r^iniii^iUt rr rr °-^' contrary opinion f.n* ^ *^ ^^'^'^ any approHcLd'lw^.CL^"^ gentleman I country along rhat slthl?^'*'*"^^ ^^ ^^e western part wj/- .? ,r"' ^oute in the !oot,Uill/of tCEocl mT/'^" ^° *^« inferior to the «rm ^ fountains, was far f r inferior': thS^r" tJT t^^'^f ^^^ i>een passed throuX w H^ *"* "^^"^^ ^ave and considerable ann,.« • ''^"*''*^ ^^ute) tained and expresidTv' '"''"^^ ^«^« «^' ter- j/poke. ^ to^hri^fitrr^.r *° ^^o«^ of the inferiority ofXt ^^ "*^ ^*^"^Pany the difficulty wi^ut W*!^^ ^'^ quality^nd and to the diyues^ of?.? ° ''«''* ^f^ater ^^ reference ITo^^ ±, ^^^"'ate. Now. wh^«J^ tho honorair Zh "^ ^P^^ations particulnriy alluded tl5If/'^f" ^as not which he has not n«!r ', ^''f'^' *** "^ost of 55;-k they fainr SS '''"^^^''-^ There can be no doubt th!f 1 ^^'^gories. g^eata^ountofrea^on^^^^^^^^^^^ -as a tbat the Canadian Par,«n »^, ** ^^^ ^^ew «eok to extend its dW^„^«\^-ay «houid a« the «if„ ^* ^,. '^ireot control an f«,. ^„„^ -doubt that theco^tiactfaiStrmt: 4« 1 ?«i^«t:t^ar*r'-"^*--*e-^ deals with the ran!?"^" ParticnUrfrT* »»«* at any mte Hnd W 5 °"'''^ "^^ Wa, an intention, if posSb^*** PWtty plai^J How, .er. it'is o^TtWni t*"' *** ?^*'*»' ntent on w« a sound one «„?^ .*^'** *h«t tnmg to say that th* ^ ' " *^" another .basins mad. the amtr ^'^^P^' * ' ?»Jowereu,ch;8wer;T.!;'"^"*" ""♦^'^d J have not beer^u!^ Pmdent and wise -formationXf htlrr^r^^^^ With an app„^,.to^^^«"W before ««, Jhe cost of the milwavs «'K^.*?"««y. what Pacific Railway ComXv b *^«^^»"adi«n the east ia. I have iS!7 ^ acquired in -hich I will ret IteTot.lrf^*"^^' ^ ^t 18 Obvious that the nn'r.. ' ^ ?*^' *h*<^ numerous branches not v^^^ "* ^'^''^"ded to the main line, and haT"^ "'*'"''-«' at all Jme expenditure and tbl ."Pon the main between Callander 1^^? ^T """^^ge of these ,^iJway87trtati.5r''*^'<^'^o ooBt *or the purposes if^e ^^i*^"^ «« acquired ^at^. will be an extrSvT'^ The hon. gentleman has nofi"^^"^^ cost, alluded to one of tbost n^T *^^ ^^^'^'on generally treated i aLZ i^"**' ''^^^^ is Purchase, I refer to that o^thrr*^" ^"^^ Railway, a separate rJil^aVn ^."^"*^ the .sametime,Vnd as I «b ^ J^?"^''* about f'-omsuch mformat^t Tl'*^i^«*^^o»' purchaf^ed from Mr S^ , ^°"^d obtain realized to hiS ^^ \^°^J^^«taprice whiJt which was far in excess o7T '"^^^' ^»d value of the railway I do ^ ^''^'^ntiJe has been any value^io the Can'!,>^S^« '^ ^ilway at all ; and whatl "''*!*" Pacific have to anybodv fK 'whatever value it mar was paid wCtUrfCl"''^'^ ' ^« "e- jalne of the concern T •^'"'^'' «f the details of that tt^ansTc'tion T"*"«^ °"' the nmintain, when we are call.^' ^"«^^°"- I that this Company has so T"" ^ ^«"de f^Pended its fund^ that^.\ '"^ ^'««^^ f "d it $30,000,000 Zt TLA? ^ "^'^t to tion ought to beeSl, ^i^^^^^^^^^- thatweoughttoCv^^r- J ^*^i°'ain I niaintain%,at wel' ^f ^Tb ^<>^"Pon it. tion upon i^. T t««,;^7- ^*^o mforma- ^^d w£y it was'thTttir C 'T'^* '^ , was purchased, and at wl . ■ °*^ "^^Iway what circums/ances. 7t .i-^^^^and "^def evolved the thro^-Li„^l^«^« ^t to have sracmo Eaiiway O^mrLT-^ "^^**' ^anadiaa about $400,00of asn^P^T^T °^ «omethW 'or the moment witk ' the oth„r railways, ^'J pretty pi.ii; ^ get to Montre.] *« saj that that 'e,«nd It is another Baas adopted, tho ngementa entered ••"dent and w^ m laid before qs '^,**^"»^cy,what »ch the Canadian ^as acquired in a conjecture, to ; but, I say, that rchase included f material at all upon the main ^n line mileage '^treal, the oo^t 'em as acquired ] "ne communi- y heavy cost. an this occasion liases, which ia m the great ne lAnrentian bought about i last Session could obtain, a price which » profit, and e mercantile >t believe it adian Pacific '^alue it may 'u I believe cess of the ed out the Session. J on to decide »nd wisely e a right to [at trausae- Boainiain ►n upon it. 8 informa- ight to be f railway *nd under .*o have Canadiaa oniething njeotun». ent witk U _ ! ^ ^ is ordinarily pqfc ^ of Callander to terenoe to other i-n is given. It g exceptions, the Pacific Railway refetence to that which together under the h( Montreal. But wit! roads, not mvch infc is true that, with U funds of the Canad Company havp not been directlv expended in the Credit \ alley enterprise, so far as is shown. It now appears that $484,000 of the Company's money has been spent, in Credit Valley bonds, which are. at present held by the Government as security for ^1,000,000 of money. It is made plainly to appear, that there is $484,000 of its looney spent in the purchase of these bonds. But, Sii , upon an occasion of this deacription, when we aro called upon to consider what the obligations of that Company are, to which we ai-e to lend money, I maintain that the hon. Minister has no^ discharged his full duty when he has failed to tell us how the Company stands in relation to the Credit Valley, the Ontario and Quebec, and that whole system. So far as the general sources of information and the Act of Par- liament enable us to judge, the Canadian Pacific Railway Com|>«ny is becorjing the lessee of those lines on terms which oblige it to guarantee five per cent upon the bonds which a»e oul standing. T)»e bonds which ar outstanding were sold, in the case of the Credit Valley, at, I fancy, somewhere from thirty to thirty-five cents on thedollor, and they have been made worth par — if the Caiiadian Paitic Railway guarantee will make them wortb par— by the guarantee of the Canadian Pacific Railway. Now, the Canadian Pacific Railway has agreed, in cfiect, that those roads shall earn five per cenK on thei<- whole c'^-'t ; and legislation is before us this Session (as well as I could understand the Clerk at tie Table, who was reading the petition) for power for this Company to extend its railway through the western peninsula of Ontario, to the border, and other proceedings are being taken to enlarge the bounding system of the Credit Valley Railway. I do notknow — we have no information at all before us — as to what the real extent of the obligations of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company are, with reference to this enterprise. Those obligations may be light or they may be neaTV 1\, f.v;;:;ii«3 lijKfii vjt^- ..— . — — .- traffic of tL fir roads when they are com- pleted. But I need hardly say that we may fully expect the comi/letion of the operations through Ontario, oi the Canadian Pacific Railway Company to result in a temporary advantage, at any rate, to a considerable portion of the community. I believe there will be a very severe eompetition there ; I believe there will be very low lates of fate for some time ; 1 believe the Ontario and Quebec system will be forced to run at rates, and under circumstances, which will render it extremely difficult for the Canadian Pacific Bailway Company, out of its earn- ings, to pay five per cent, upon the com- plete cost of that system. If so the general assets and capital of the Company will be i-esponsible for the deficiency. It is, I presume responsible for the deficiency to- day, in the case of the Credit Valley Com- pany, be that grpat or small. Then there is an arrangement made wi h the Toronto, Grey and Bruce Railway Com^iany, under which that railway is leased by the Canadian Pacific Railway. Nothing has been said about that; we have not heard what the extent of this obligation ot the Canadian Pacific Railway is; we know noe what the traffic account of the Toronto, Grey and Bruce Railway is; we know not whether the prob- able traffic of that road will pay the expense of it. If it does not, that, of course, becomes an onerous obligation to the extent of the deficiency. Then there is the Atlantic and North- Western Railway, in which the hon. gentleman said a sum — I have forgotten exactly what it was, something under two hundred thousand dollars — had been expen- ded by the Canadian Pacific Railway Com- pany in acquiring the charter, and sof orth. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. And build- ing a road. Mr. BLAKE. How much was built 1 Sir CHARLES TUPPER. Round the mountain at Montreal, Mr. BLAKE. I don't know how many miles were built. It would be interesting to know how much was paid for the charter. We pass so many chaters, Mr. Speaker. Our hands are so full of them. So many hon. gentlemen are engaged busily during the Session in passing railway charters. We pass them with so much freedom. It is so very little difficult to pass a railway charter, unless it be in Manitoba, that what the worth of a commodity of that kind is, after it has received the valuable imprint of this House and tlie Senate, and the assenii of the Executive, it would be interesting to know. I suppose the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, itself, would have no 1^1 ^^.^^■^^f -'"-££ iS'^^^^^^^ know whX/XTe i:;"»"'°'8-Ido /„i ° 't."'''<''» «' it-to^ trolling intere«t in it Tf ^°'' ** *^°"- W tot?°i?"»^''^ artnership, tha- -"Ley would make the advanee, and Farlia:^ent should have, they agreed such information as would enable it to agree with the Ministers. The officers ■come down and they make enquiry, and it is exnected Parliament will acrree. Thev make the enquiry in two, or three, or four •days into these transactions, involving so many millions of money : they make it in referenoe* to a decision already arrived at. I^ it not the most eurpriaing thing in the world that these two subordinates of thu hon. gentleman did not find that tlto accounts were aU wrong, and that the transaction wa« one that he would not accept ? I am amazed ! It was so prob- able that they should have found differently from what the hon. gentleman hod dei ided ; it was so probable they should have differed from the Cabinet with reference to the proposition they were about to submit !• Parliament, that it is really extraordinary we should have from them the report w« have heard from the hon. gentlemaft to-night. Now, Sir, in that report they tell us that they did not enquire into the dis- tribution of the stock ; they tell us that they did not investigate the expenditure on the line ; and if we are lending money upon the faith of a wise dealing with the stock, and upon the faith of wise expendi- tures upon the line, they did not investi- gate things that were extremely material. I have no doubt that these accounts art not falsified ; I have no doubt that thes* accounts are kept as these gentlemen said they were kept ; I have no doubt that there has beeiv no falsification or fraud in the keeping of the accounts of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company. But the ques- tion is, what their transactions have been ? The question is, whether they have beem prudent, whether they have been wise, what the nature of them has been. These wertt the questions which were to bo entered into — these were the questions which were t« have been investigated. But the investi- gators tell us : We did not enquire int« the distribution of the stock ; we did not enquire into the expenditures of the Company. Then, Sir, everything went well as long as the money held out. As I have said, the Company was lauded hj everybody holding views consonant witk those of Ministere, as possessed of all those capacities and faculties which Ministers credited them with. They oou^ make n« mistake, they did make no mistake ; they were building faster than any one had ever built before ; they were building better than any one had ever built before ; they were building cheaper than any one had ever built before. The road was improving all the time in its nmsiio<»fj« • tha worV •wwasi becoming easier ; and it was found from day to day and from year to year that the difficulties were disappearing; that traffic prospects were becoming brighter. Eveiy- thing pointed more and more to the extreme I IS joyful news we weie lojalJlm ""' ' P^'ion of voiirf„„,I.,v »i • out of ,e«»on, uqH t ,e «! '""T ""<" ' P'oducing on T fo n! '*''" "■™'t">''nt» another s(oit wa. till "!''"■'"' 'l»Hoff. rtifS. Pr^'-'-yon .re bette>• . Md now suddenly wiS '° ''°' ^ ' »' 'I'e stodt CL"P^" ""■ ""n"""' ™''"' notice, we are tolTthlf . ^ ."^rr" °°'' "'« Co,n;'ny' o'.tl' "■^b'"' ™.l» "'e assumntio,, , ^'^ "'■ '' '''a*- >»ent was on the 2? JX' """'"r" i'''"'"^"^ Xt 'w„, "l^'^-'ily to be was that the Govern„e„f h'lt^;i:;te:,\irr'''™' '^ "''= ^^'^ ^T^^'^^'^^'" cash, and $5,000 000 w.. * i '^^ ^" Nnnouucinsr thif +jff T ^''^ Company, «nnonnoe„,e„t tW t& c"' '™' " "'"P'" ""^o p" cent TW ", , "'"' '"'<'™'" " made the guarantee al staM™T:"' S^ •"■-' '.tbnTiV, v^-J n„°tr„™;',"° "'"■'•'' . tetter for the ™,erat1o„ ?/ '"' ""^ """>">"' was "rfnf vfu'?,'^'""' ">» Oovern- years t\ i '^*'P^"'^««'^t dividends for ten cZ' ''° »^'^'^^ ^^ ^^'^ earniu..s ef ,1 years. The hon. gentleman tells u7t\ , Company was cliarged to ,>av tl « ff .^^^"5""-^^ eft^cTofiaitg I :™:' '" *-"•« of""th* o xr: Pany, {airly representing tfe„ortt„?R' ?"^ '"■'■''"foment ^aslJh J le?';^.'"' """ guarantee anrl wJ>;«k ° . wortn ot the moss ft-PP w ^ '®" I'fie earn- pocket and puttinr irit^ "' ^i"'' ,"™ i 'a'ion, and I b^iwetT . "J?"""' "' 'P««°- teep, you w'ereS^i "gyoJr" weaU?*H'° r""' «"' -" "'^ and%raf'' "■!! wen t.„ n.e -i^tVlX'^p^: SC^-^.^- •^««.''irinone?°^ racmc Kailway stock. Who 17 f» investments ^ou are better >at bad taken P thought to '••nment had "tee, if the credit of the valent, that '- ; the then ave realized htbuy trioiti ' that thf» at any rate, ninal value that would "t, if that Bdily to be ently, the In Eng- ' Morton, Company, had guar- 0,000,000 that the 9ft free to nterest at 10 doubt, 7 worded, d convey t it con- that the it it was with the trovern- it was a did sup- declares ^ere left he divi- ^ of the Tee per s come insport ipany's ^y the Jonciie ! state- and I ■, that earn- 5tand- ivhere idon, pecu- was good jy in Who rofited has not yet been disclos'^d. In a w short days it was found the Coni;)ftny ad made a mistake. They said in their tter, written about eight days, I think, fter the first proposal, tliit they did not ant this arrangement. They proposed that he guarantee s'lould extend to this $5,000- 00 only, because they s-iid they did not ant to sell the $B5,000,0i)0 at once, and hey Slid also, it would cost thein too much oaey. Is the House surprised, are the Jovernmenfj surprised ; is the country sur- jfised that some financiers, although not -perhaps so wise as those who thought it was an excellent arrangement, should have de- clined to believe that the value of the stock wag raised by a transaction of this descrip- tion 1 The stock shortly fell, and full dis- closures were made — no not full disclosures, but more disclosures as to the character of the arrangemen* . It was discovered that a certain amount of cash was pail, that more cash was to ba paid, and that securities w re given for the rest. The securities were not disclosed. According to the ex- planations of the hon. gentleman himself, the check and fall in the stock is attributed to the mystery and want of openness which had characterized the transaction ; and I must say that so far as regards the Company itself and the Government in connec'ion with this transaction, it whs unfortunate in the last degree that it should have been carried out as it was carried out — -carried out in a manner which enabled the imputa- tion to be made with too much apparent reason, that negotiations with the Govern- ment had been made use of to profit private persons who were aware of them. I main- tain there should have been absolute secrecy as to this arrangement, and no dabbling in the stock of the Coinpany by any one acquainted with it, and that when compl-.ted it should have been made known, in all its particulars, to the public. The whole arrangement should have been made known. I say, so that the public could have become aware exactly what the Government were giving, and what the Company were giving to the Government, and judge for themselves what the effect upon the stock would be. But the First Ministerj as the Montreal Witness informed U8 some time ago, is said by Mr Drink- water, Secretary of the Company, to have told the Company not to speak, and to have declared that he hims'elf intended to make a iuU explanation in a few days, and in the meantime they should be silent. And silent they were. But the First Minister di I not speak ; he does not speak now. The tausact'on affected the GoveruniHnfe otherwise. What a chorus of laudations were hoard. It was described as a magniti- cent transaction, one in which the Govern- ment had achie^'ed a tiiiancial success ; au operation of a channter car».ible only of b^ing achieved by the present Finance Minister. Why, the failure of th 9 dora antic loan turned out to be a blessing in disgukse, because the hon. Finance Minister did n^)!; want money, for the Syndl -ate would pro vide him with it What did he want with $4,000,000 when .^24,500,000 were to. be provided by the Syndicate of the Canadian Pf".cific Riilway ? What a lucky thing it was that he had not taken up a loan ? He would not have knoivn what to do with the money because of those f 24,-500,000 he was going to get from the Syndicate. Not merely was the money to be supplied which was intended to be taken from the pockets of his fellow-countrymen by making a loan, but the loans which ware about to expire in eleven months, were also to be largely met. The situation was easier. The hon. gentleman would have to go to England, it is true, but •nly for a fraction of the sum for which he would have otherwise had to go, because the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, adding one more to the immense blessings which it had a'ready conferred upon the country, was pouring out of its abundance into our coff'^rs those sums, to redeom our indebtedness. Did those who described this action as admirably beneficial to the Government and the country, ever consider that if it was so good for them, it could no*; really ba so very good for the Canadian Pacific Railway Company too ; that it really could not advantage the Government so enormously and be also a great good to the other party to the bargain. A mere money transaction of this description cannot possess those con- flicting characters. How changed the sit- uation now is. In November last, we were congratulating ourselves that we had $24, 500,00 of solid cash ready to be furnished by the Comjmny to redeem our debts, and to night we are discussing a proposition that we shall advance $22,500,000 to the Cana- dian Pacific Railway Company. If that is not a turn-about-face, from November to February, I do not know what a turn about- face is. It waaa splendid thing for the Company and for the country that the fomer should farnish $24,600^00o7it is now a splendid thing for the Company shou,d''loan' ^""'7. '^'' '^^ S Should loan them $22,500,000. The hon. gentleman stated that this transaction was almost warranted by the law We A^clso^r,-^'* 'e«pecting the sanctity oj Acts of Parliament, and the power of thl ,«,^««f -« i« these lat.r daya ^ iT was ol the other day that a solemn Act of ParliZ ment passed by hon. gentlemen opnosUra^d" :J;*^5.P^«^d«d certain things impSve ly was dispensed with by those hon c 3 e' «en and when I asked nnderthe authority of what law I was told it ^as done under s?tr krwr''f'y- /«know that neces- sity knows no law, and aa the hon. centle man represented necessity, I do him no in in ^ l"" "^^'"^ '^"^ ^« tnew no llw on that occasion. Here was actuX no Order m Council passed but a dS ZT^f ?r^r "'^ ^''«^' informrng CcK ^ZlL '''^'^' throughout the country Slat ^r7 ""^r^ '' ^"°b«y th« Jaw th^tlll ^^"^ .*'™°'' BnrpTised to learn that the hon. Minister of Railways admite S^wer oTtha' « ' ""'^ '-nscelded th^ power of the Government in making this lul^ i^^^ '^'"'^ ^""." clothed with authority for it. Why should be not have done so » There is a law which authoS them, in case they require cash to pay our debtoor meet our obligations, to borroJr that cash Mid issue terminableannnitie: in return !Sr .1^ \*J'°« *^**' " it not a'most withm the law that they should issue the securities without getting the cash? It is truethat inconvenienoe would arise; because the object for which the tmnsaction was earned out waa to obtain cash, and ir the cash was not obtained, the debts could not be paid. The hon. Minister says that the Government, m taking this action, but slightly tmns eended their power.. I say it w J an ei ceeAngly grave act; that it was an act to be done only under a sense of the gravest responsibility; an act to be done only in some emergency which would be of iteelf a justification for the breach of the Jaw- that it was an act which is calculated, if slurred over as this act is slurred over/to ^hrowdouli upon all the secunfi-s of Vu. Canadian Government; an act aa to which ihe Mmisters, before they entered into it, oufiht to have been satisfied, first of al] IS that It was absolutely i^qnired by ,», pressing emergency, and LJ^A that it would have n^^^ ♦> °° But Sir Vk *' *^® einereen< ^ut. Sir, they were not satisfied that was a pressing emergency, nor did it me the emergency after ail; for the hon IZ nian tells us that the result of W dZteTZlir"'^; '^"""'' ^"' P-t aisaster, that it was disastrous to tiie Co,, pany that the transaction should have t entered into because they did not^mpr^ the pr-ce of their stock by a dolllr ^ they did pay into the hands of ^e g' ^^ ™ont the $8,700,000. And Sey 'o^ down to Pariiament and in th^H,^ Wthe Throne they tell'u 'tLt'^: made this arrangement in October T? undT/th" "" *^^**^«^t-ns<:nd:d%hefa th^ef arl'lbSSrusr:^^^ ^ ^ n^y for that transgi^stn ^f^J^ '^^/^^ do not propose any bill of indemnilV bu ttL7i;:rdVrwTr ^^ r^- i^alittle betterf^rThe CoVp^i^ "^ will go into the committee, t^^t tL JrTi the .graoment "it^lf. ^, ™B''"»1 Zr^.Jf.T. A'.t.'-'?"-"'-' of t Fe},r„« J^* u / , postponement of February cash to the end of five veal t say that that is no constitutJnnli ^^ ^ duty to the people it assumes to represent If It does not insist on transactions of t^. that to a large extent on credit aft«r y,o ing reoc ved the cash whicr was thT nn of the dividend. Hei-e againTa littlf " version of the order of thin^^ ^s h ex^t^" We were told when the ^nXnT^l Railway contract was passed *hli ^^ obtaining from the CoS^« ' ^^^ "^^'"^ iu_ 6 "wui tne <^ompany Beanritv fv„^ I ic pi e uc tc 1» bsolutely neqnired by «o 'e/gency, and woond have Biet the emei^en were not satisfied that emergency, nor did it nie '/w *1'^ ^^"^ ^^'^ ^°"- ««ntl that the result of his gn idendfi. This is an arrangement is highly satisfactory, I have no when aocoraplisiied on credit, to the lolden ; but if it is not an alteration contract with the Company. I fail to itand what an alteration is. Now, I) present proposal is that we should teo to tlie extent of a sum' which is lereiy a. failure, but positiiBin cash to a present value of $7,300, was disastrous to tiie Co And lend them $22,600,000 besides, ■ansaction should hare beelwe are to engage $30,000,000. In ^"*® ^'^y d afterwards. A few general obser- vations, however, may be made with refer ence to these calculations Last Session I pointed out to the House the estimate of the Company, according to the report of December, 1882, of what the road would cost, embracing the line from Montreal to Port Moody and the branches, exclusive of the Government sections. What the Com- pany said then was that the road would be built for $25,000,000 of subsidy, for hwd grant bonds to the amount of $20,000,000 and for $90,000,000 stock, which, at sixty' was equal to $64,000,000 in cash : that is' for in all, $99,000,000 of money. As kte as April, 1883, the President of the Com- pany published a letter in which he said that the cost to the shareholders of the 3,260 miles fully equipped, would be the $54,000,000, which he assumed vould be realized for the $90,000,000 of stock against which they would have 17,000,000 of the finest wheat lands on the continent. This same estimate, practically repeating in April what had been stated in the De- cember previous, was, that the whole line from Montreal to Callander and the presen- tly contemplated branches would cost the I Company $99,000,000, of which the Com- pany would have to prox-ido $54,000,000. Now, last Session I showed, analyabg that statement, that from this should be taken to get the cost of the main line contracted for, for the extensions and branches, about $3,000,000. I was unable to speak with exact accuracy, but that was the nearest approximation I could make, and I am not yet persuaded that there was any material error in that approximation. If there -i^as. It was against the figures as I now present them, that would leave the cost of the con- ♦ l-uofo/l lirji^ received, $7C0,0OO-and they will probi rtceive further on that account, $500 —making altogether $35,400,000. they are to get from us now $22,5001, making $58,900,000 from the public agamst a total expenditure of $66,000,1 , on the contracted line. And they have ready m their hands 10,000,000 acres, i I are to get, during the progress of the c I tract, other acres to the amount of o j 11,000,000 more-over i 1,000,000 acres jail. That is the proposition. Sir. 1 j contracted with them to build this railw, They tell us now that this contracted rail»| the subject of the contract, is going to ti them only the sum which I have nam And we say that they have received fi puDlic resources over $36,000,00 J and lo^in is almost to makeup the whole of »1 rest — and besides they are to get 20,000, 000 acres of land, and what they may make out of their stock, while what they got oat of their original struck, their first $25,000, 000, woald be enough to complete tha work. It is imposfiible 'under these circumstances, to contend against proposition that it is not the contracted line* has oauHec«n entered into which may l,e useful, which may U? profit able, and may bo in the interest of tho coantry, but which ought not to have been entered into tho detriment of the ability of theOompauy to i)eiiorm its obligutions to the public, that this money is ie<»«., -com the country. It IS to give, not im rely every shilling i bei necessiiry to complete the road, but every nat shilling necessary to pav nff'tJie «««*;«„( debt besides. That ii the .Utement ; and th.Jso result, beingascrtainml. it i* ,H«iiblc f I^ put »fc forward as « subjoct for en- quiry that this floating debt doe. not itaelf include the $5,000,000 temporarilr b^^ rowed on $10,000,000 of stock ; and if hT tlie result of tho payment of the floatimr' debt would be to free the *10,000,000 of stock at the disposal of the Comrmny But meanwhile the hon. gentleman is abk, triumphantly, to say, the road will hi hnish,.d with this money-that is to lay If those estimates are correct. Whv the hon. gentleman who offered, with a lavish hand to provide every dollar which is es- timated to be necessary to finish the line from the beginmng to the end, and to pay th», floating debt, may well say, "I am making adequate provision for the construc- tion of the Oaimdian Paoifio Railway." let li the estimates lie under estimates, if they be not perfect Intimates, if somethin,- iko the cost of last year be the real cost the account is quite on the other side, and large sums will have to bo provided from some other source to meet the further^ mands. Thehon. gentleman w.ll say Oh they will get u out of the lands or further issue of stock out of something from wS they have failed to got it hitherto. But you Sir, know the statement we have as to the condition of the road indicates ther^ cause the loan is not to be repayable until 1801, which mean^ it is not expected that very large resources will come^from any other quarter before 1891 ; certainly not withm the next two years; and if large re sources are not to come from any other Clear that if tins estimate l>e an under esti- mate, if the estimate ofl.st year be the correct estimate, more money iiU be wan ^ed and I think this night^. proccedTn" will t- .where that m.., v vvir be a.skH irom. The mformatior we ha^ had is as I have stated more t-. .^ee, wholly'd:: lective. 1 have pointed out enormous dis- crepancies in the estimate of the cost ex- tremely convenient in order to persuade Parliament to the view, that now^at least! till provision is bomg made for the con- strucfcioa of the railway; extremely con- v^ent m order to persuade Parliament to the view that it nms no risk of being applied to it again. But no exnla- nation isgivenof how it happens that those wwreaiontiy low estimates are so mu-h tatement ; and 1, it ia {iouiblc, ubjoct for en- doM not it«olf iporarilj Iwr- zk ; and if ho, i the floatimr SI 0,000,000 of he ComiMiny. leinan is ablo, foad will b* lat in to lay, t. Why, the with alavinh which ia e»- luiHh the line If and topaj way, "I am the conatruo- Kttilway." estimates, if if BOmethJni; he real coat, ber side, and rovided from 5 further de- ill say: Oh, s or further i from which horto. But we havo as licatea tliere it result^ be- ayable until tpected that > fron* any irtainly not if large re- any other ■8, then it is under esti- ear be the ill be wun- proccedings be aske'I had is, u» wholly de- )rmous dis- cost, ex- > persuade w at least, r the con- Jiuely con- liament to risk of no expla- that those so much S3 lower than the eatimatoa of only ten montha ago. Of that we are entitle- ^-- going "on^S! re.pect to that Company. And the hon' gentleman says it was quite natuial and everybody knows how deeply interested they were in sustaining the stock. I d, n.>t think that was a proper application ot the money at all. It was an' application of the money which was to lead the inves- ting public to believe the stock was ^nr^u more tuan it really was; to believe that there was a demand for it tLit did not exist ' It was a mis-application of the funds of the Canadian Pacific Railway. Mr. Stephe^ says nothing at all in his st^^tement of ih^ '« -« 24 ^A outside land sales or of the bonuses, but ihe return to Parliament shows $200,000 of bonuses at Winnipeg, and I think 8490, OOO for town sites already realized. Then we did not get from him — though the hon. Minister has £>iven tome information — any information at all as to the working ace junt, or as lo the net earnings; and I was at a losa to understand whetliei- the $2,128,000 whioh he represented as paid for dividends was provided for partly by the net earnings, or whether it was exclusive of the net earniiiga I gather, though I am not sure right, from the lion, gentleman's I am statement, that the net earnings are inclu- ded in the $587,000, spoken of by Mr. Btephen, and therefore he has given credit for them. But the statement would appear to show that that was money provided by the Company, though it was money accrued from the running of the road and ought to be set off against the interest paid on the capital so far. The hon. gentleman says the returns are satisfactory. I am sorry I cannot agree with him, and I am of the opinion, also, that on this subject we ought to have much more information. If I rightly read the return of the Canadian Pacitic Railway for the year ending the .'^Oth Juno, 1882, its profits on work over expen- diture to that date are placed at about $840- 000; and I see by the retum laid on the Table of the Hou^e, its profits over working expenses last year are placed at somewhere about $537,000, only. The letter says nothing of that for a complete yeai-, but it gives an account of the nine months which have ehn).>-ed immediately preceding, showing some $900,000 odd as the earning* of these nine months. One would like to know what this m^ans, One would like to know what the true running account is, liow far these nine months overlap the previous year; what is the meaning of tlie discrepancy in results between the complete year ending 30th June, 1883, and the com- plete year ending 30th June, 1 882. Then it was not until this evening that, for the fir-it time, we learned anything as to what the stock had realized. The letter gives no i information ahout it. x^h I have already observed, we do not know hov,' the stock ! has realized that amount; at which the $30, i 000,000, issued to the public, was sold; how i much the Syndicate took, at what rate they | took it; what, in other words, are the real | merits of a transaction in which we have a i very deep interest. Not one word is said in the statemant furnished to the Govern- ment and by th3 Government to Parliament as to the relations of the Company with all the other roads to which I have referred, or their relation to the Hamilton and North- Western in which, in their interest, a largf^ quantity of stock and bonds was purchased as I have been told by those concf-rnei in that transaction. No explanation whatevei either, is given by the j.resident of the Company of th'^ transactions with reference to the Laurentian Railway and the Canadii Central, and the Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa and Occidental. The statements are rather difficult of apprehension. One statement is that there has been paid by the Companv of those roads, $3,200,000. I think "the hon. gentleman to night said $3,333,000 and I presume tl]£ statement of the presi-l I dent was made uj) to 31st of December.* , But taking $3,200,000, round figures, there I I are mortgages for five and a half millions of dollars, it is sa'd, which would apparently I make a cost of $8,700,000, for the.se roads. , I But if you will look at the statistical rail- I way returns you will find there a statement i that there is unpaid by the Canadian Pacific!; I Railway on the Cinada Central, in rount''^ figures, $4,000,000, and on the Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa and Occidental, $3,850. ; 010, a total of $7,850,000. Add to thi.^ the $3,200,000 that have been paid and ; you find $11,000,000 as the cost of thosr : roadi,, instead of a smaller sum to which I i have reierred. To this has to be added, 1 I presume the equipment and otiier charges. , Tiie payment of $2,300,000 as interest " or> deposit and purchase money, equipment and other charges, will bring the cost up to ii : very high figure ; but, of course, it includes the nugget of gild which the Company is so delicate in speaking about — the Laurentiaii Railway. We had no information until the hon. gentleman vouschsafed it to us to-night. : as to the particulars of the expenditure of $3,500,000 for roads towards the seaboard and for other jiurposes within the charter. We find now that it is considered a purpose within the charter to spend $600,000 in sustaining tlie stock of a land corporation. or to buy rtiuck in a United States railwuy, and i df not know what are the undefined I)urposes yet within the charter, when i find these ai-e the defined and avowed pur poses which are alleged to be included in it. There is much information which it would be important for us to receive with a view to really ascertaining the value of the .. ai i li t f$i -''* *^MS# i f*^'^^-'' ^' *;* ''' ' ' ••WW***-!**!..!, ti<\ to the Govern- aientto Parliament Company with all I have referred, or nilton and North - ir interest, a largf^ ids was purchased those concprnei in planation whatever jiresident of the ions with reference j ay and the Canadii Montreal, Ottawa itements are rather 1. One statement id by the Companv m. I think "the; said S3,333,000,| raent of the presi- Hst of December.* ound figures, there | 1 a half millions ot would apparently 3, for these roads., le statistical rail- [ there a statement le Canadian Pacitic| Central, in roundl . on the Quebec. !cidental, $3,850,- 30. Add to this ■e been paid and the cost of those r sum to which I las to be added, I xnd other charges, 30 as interest on ey, equipment and the cost up to i\ course, it includes the Company is so t — the Laurentiaii ormation until the ?dit to us to-nidit. e expenditure of irds the seaboard ithin the charter, nsidered a purpose end .f!600,030 in land corporation, ed States railwuy, are the undefined charter, when 1 and avowed pur I be included in it. a which it would ;eive with a view he value of the statistics given — how much of the s\ira I I was startled last fall to find reported the which is said to have been spent on the j opinions of the general manager on this niain line is due to the incomplete line anil what the finished line has cost. A large sum is said to have been expended on tbe line which is not yet complete. It will not do, of course, to divide that indefinite amount over the mileage of that which is ■completed, because that would make an ex- travagant cost of the mileage of the com- l)leted road. But we have no statement of what the completed railway has cost in its different sections. We ought to know what each separate section «r link has cost, so far as it h8s been completed. We ought to know what are the arrangements with re- ference to the more easterly part ; we ought to know the class of arrangements with refer- ence to the central part and those entered into with the North American Company with reference to ohe work recently ter- minated. Last year some information was given to us. We were told what the em- bankment was in the prairie section ; we were told that the enormous quantity, for such a line, of 1 6,300 cubic yards of em- bankment to the liiile had been made, but we did not know what was done in the other places this year. When we are called to advance $22,500,000 and to pledge our credit for ixi^\ $7,500,000 more, we are not given so muc i information as was vouchsaf- ^d last year when we were told no denW ! J^'^;; J'^ -^" j' J^^^"^;^^^^^^^ would be made upon us. We see rothmg , ^.jj °^^^ through *^ *"■*"" ""'' ^^ '♦• subject, and they correspond so admirably with results as they are developed hero to night, that I propo e to trouble you with some statements made to a reporter by tbe general manager some time about the period when the Company reached the foot of the Rockies, this foil : — " A reporter of the Montreal Star recently interviewed Mr. Van Home with the foUowiiiy; resu t :— ' We are,' said Mr. Van Home, 'at this season ot the year at the very height of our expenditure and it is safe to say that we are speLdinK ijflOO 000 a day."' Then he states what they are doing and where tl.ey expect to be. He speaks also of the pass across the Selkirks, and so forth. '"Our line is now 'ocated through from Montreal to Kam'oops, and, with anythi^ig lilte good tuclt, we will be through to that point where we join nie Oovernnient work in about two years.' ' How much will it cost per mi a through the Rockies ? ' 'We don't know.' ' Have you not estimated the amount beforehand ? ' • The Canadian Pacific Railway,' rep'iedMrVan Homo, bracing himsAlf up and speaking as if he wanted the reporter to under tand that he meant every word he said, ' has never estimated the cosfc of any work ; it hasn't time for that ; it's got a big job on hand and it s going to put it through.' ' Well,' said tha reporter, ' but if you haven't estimated the cost of the con- struction thiough the mountainK, how do you know that you have sutticieiit funds to '•ash the road, as you are currently reported t) have?' ' A'e'i, if we haven't got enough, we will get more, that's al about it.' " And SO it is getting more. We are provid- ing for it to-night. The Cnnadian Pacific Railway Company, Mr. Speaker, has not time to make estimatps ; it has got a big job on hand, and it is going to put it ., , , , ^, ^ ^ . „!.» vv,o« v..^^^..fi,.. the mountains, and if it :in the president s I^tters^abouUhe contm^^^^ , ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^U g^^. „^^^^_ These are the views of the manager, and these are the views which we find haA'e made. We liave not the instnxments of a.ssociation of these contracting parties Only two days ago I heard there were more : .^.^^^^jed themselves to the prudenc e and than on^ I heard there were two, perhaps ,j^^,^^,^^ ^^ ^^^ Ministry, and which are to three different parties operating at different | ^^^ ^^^jj^^^ ,^^ ^^.^ proposed resolution. ot the firms hius times ; and since one ot tno nrms nius un- happily dissolved, owing the Canadian Pacific Railway .f 600,' 00, put in as provid- ing for the work. It is roilly important for us to get at the bottom of the relations of the Company with its contractors. \ What dependence, under these ciruuni- wtances, with no detailed estimate, with no division even of the cost-, with noi^tatement of how much of what ia expt^cted to be })aid. will be required for the eastern end, and how much will he rtqiiired for the mountain end — what depeudencu cm be placed on the allegalion that the ruad will be comple'fd for the estimated luiiount of ^27,000,000, contradicted as this is l.y the cstiniatcs of last year I I doubttbiu'stimates. 1 doubt their accuracy. I duubt their detiuiteness. "'And how about your eastern connections? What about the North Shore'?' 'That and all other matters in the east are tor future consideration. I think we will do well if we ^Jt throuv'h from Montreal to the Pacific in two yeiirs.' ' ■• nd how about your bridge and eastern connec- tion to the At ant;c?' 'Now, cinie '" snid he snd I think ha must have repeated this to the Minister just hefife he nia'lo his speech, " 'it dots not do to 4;ivc too much publicity to ail our schemes and might do us harm' ' Uurnour says you will get to the Alliiiitic by the South-Kasterii ' " I suppose it is tlio Siiuth-lCastern un e^s that rond is south-west aa well as south-oiist- ■ • inui that, an a matter of fact you now control that mad? ' Xot to my knowi di^e.' 'Tlieu you v\ill want tin- North Shore?' " The question fai ed to e icit a reply, and the reporter, sceiiij; that he had probably obtained as nun.-li info ni:itioii as possible from the ;j;onoral mana}{er, ictiieJ forcibly iiiiprcssud with the re>oliite frank- ness of ohtinctor dispbued by the man who is the admini- stru c head of this yrcat Canadian enterprise That is grard, Mr. Sui'aktn' That is glori- ous. That is just what any of us would do if lliere was iiu b ttum to our purses, if money was no object ; that is just the way we would manage if we had the Dominioa '*»»««»-Ml«« ^.«ia8(fc*-.,:5-.ji»/.: ,.,..„ il ^ of Canada to back us, to bank for us, to give na a guarantee without the authority «* law if we wanted it, and to give us twenty-two milhons and a half more if we ;^ted it. What is eiBg agreed that it ought to be done. It does seem to mo that these statements furnish the ground for the proposition that we have not had sufficient information. I say that it was the duty of the Govern- ment, before thoy committed themselves to the proposal to advance this money and to agree to this guarantee, to have had a tiorongh investigation into the affairs of the Oanadiau Pacific Railway Company, right to the bottom ; I say it was their duty to hive iuvostigated most thoroughly the past, the pre^sent, and the future ; I «ay it was their duty to have obtained full, ample information, ' to have got all the details, to have obtained the de-tailed esti- mate of the expenditure for completion, to have ascertained how it was that that esti- mate ran so very far .short of the estimates of ten months ago, and to have established to their own satisfaction first, and as a ]ireparation for submission to Parliament, all the particulars to M^hich I have generally alluded to-night, as a preliminary°to their reaching a decision. They did nothin<» of the kind. They decided first, and then they sent down two gontlomcn to report as to whether they wore right in coming to a decision or not; and that report is^niado I ■while Parliament is sitting, within a day or ' two of this time, as I say just in preparation i for this resolution being brought before the ' Housa The hon. geatleman has said that the. main line—in one of his numerous ealculations, the only one which in this connection I will refer to ■— wo,uld cost f 49,900,000, but in this is included the I floaUng debt of |7,5O0,0OO, and the fut«re dividends of $8,700,000, and therefore it woiUd not cost that amount according t» any fair estunate of funds provided by th« Company. He said also that in case of default the country would get the ro»d for, I think he said, $54,000,000, and he staked his reputation upon the accuracy of that statement, and he repeated it time and again ; and after the recess he repeated it once again, saying ho had pointed out that we would got it for this sum^I forget exactly what it was — of forty or fiftv millions, and that he had proved that fact while It would cost ninety-seven or a hundred and three millions, for at one time tie used the one figure and at another time ^e other. The hon. gentleman was wrong. He made a calculation of a most peculiar character In summing up what the road cost to the country he charged, as a proper thmg to be charged as paid by the country, the value of the lands that were sold, not mdeed at the prices they had realized, but at his assumed estimate of two dollars, and he put in seven mUlions and a half for the three and three-quarter million acres as fairly chargeable as part of what the country has paid, and, with that item introduced into the calculation, he ran his figures up to something approximating to a hundred millions. He did not put in however, the land that was unsold as any part of the cost 1 hen, wh(!n he came to ascertain the ultimate cost to the country, he took the land unsold, converted it into cash by a jr-rnrTonS ^^'^'^V.^ade $42,000,000 or |i4J,000,000 out of It, and deducted that from the cost he hal estimated before bu-, where did the land come from ? If it came from us, it is to be charged as part of tfie cost before he can make his calculation ite»u-, the calculation is defective, and he I had better sul)mit it to Mr. Miall or Mr jSchreiber. The hon. gentleman adverted j to estimates Avhich had been formerly made of the cost of this road. It is quite true I that I submitted to the House, as the result of the calculations of my hon. friend the member for East York (Mr Mackenzie), based upon the estimates of tlie engineera j yp to that date, the probable cost of a , hrst-class railway, from Callander to Port I Moody, at the sum he mentions— ^120,000- I 000. That is perfectly true ; I do not i- „..!..,? .^„,^„ ^ii^, ^y^j gcncK man now fands fault with that estimate, lie did find fault with it \ I , and the future md therefore k mt according t« provided hy th« that in cose of ;et the ro»d for, ), and he staked ecu racy of that d it time and 3 he repeated it >ointed out that sum — I forget forty or fifty roved that fact, >ty-soven or a for at one time t another time Qan was srrong, most peculiar ' what the road ed, a8 a proper >y the country, were sold, not id realized, but vo dollars, and a half for the llion acres as bat the country em introduced his figures up to a hundred I however, the y part of the » ascertain the r, he took the ito cash by a 2,000,000 or deducted that lated before, from ? If it ged as part of is calculation. ;tive, and he Miall or Mr. aan adverted )rmerly made is quite true , as the result 1. friend the Mackenzie), he engineers le cost of A iider to Port J— II 20,000- ; I do not >tl< man now He did find 07 all Sir CHARLES TUPPER. No, no. Mr. BLAKE. Yes, he said to-day that he could not controvert my argument about kis estimate being too low, because my estimate was true. I venture to say that I heard a great deal of complaint against my argument when I used it I was told that it was extravagant, and the hon. gentleman thought it was too much altogether; but neither my hon. friend from York, nor myself, was responsible for more than this, that the estimates were the fair results of the estimates 0." the engi- neers laid on the Table of the House and printed in the Sessional Paptus. I believed them to be so, and that was all we said. I «ay that the estimates of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company last year came exactly to that figure. They were to spend $91,000,000 on the road from Callander to Port Moody. The Government sections were to cost $28,000,000 ; and if vou add $28,000,000 to 191,000,000, you get just about $120,000,000, as nearly as jiossi'ble ; and if you allow a trifle— if the hon. gentle- man would be bending enough to-night to allow a trifle or so for the $5,000,000 for surveys — you will find that the estimate of the Company last year does accord with the estimates of the engineers made so long before. But while I felt pretty confident, under the circumstances, that the Company were probably right, my confidence as to their present attitude is altogether shaken, because they are departing- from their own estimate and the estimate of the engineers. They say it will cost $24,000,000 less, and that $24,000,000 is not on a capital of $120,000,000, but on a smal- ler capital of $91,000,000. The hon. gentle man adverted to some of my estimates of tho price of the land, made in 1880. I did not think li(» would have done it. I was ' prepared for a good deal, but not for thtt ; ., because I thought he would have remem- i bered— unfortunately he forgot — tliat this was a calculation applying to the proposal of the Oovernmeno, andtlie estimate of the I Hon. First Minister, as to the price to be : realized from the land situate withiu certain distances from the railway. We applied '■ these figures of the Hon. First Mhiij ter, and | out of his own mouth we convicted him of j an extravagant contract. Now the hon. gentleman says, you estimated these figures. The hon. gentleman says that the earnings of the road are moat satisfactory. Well, I do not kuow whether they are or not. J should be glad to think ihey were ; I hope they are. But in order that we may know whether the result is satiafectory or not, we should have the earnings of this eastern or disconnected portion given by them- selves, as well as the earnings of the other part given by themselves. We want to understand the progreasioB, the cause of tho difference between the receipts of last year and this ; we want to understand to what extent these earnings are due to the very high rates which were ; charged,— rates admittedly so high that I they were lately reduced by 25 or 30 per cent for east-bound grain. The hon. gentleman says ther3 will b<) no default at ! all, and that if there is a default, what a ' good bargain the country will have. Well, i as I have said, we have no proper data be- j fore us to-day to justify the reduced esti- I mates of cost, that are given us. Without j verifying and establishing these reduced I estimates of cost, we have no proof that the , funds provided aro of themselves adequate j to finish the road in two years. It has practically been stated to us that the lands will not realize much in the two years, and it is not expected that much of th > Com- pany's stock >vill be sold in the two years. Other things are required to be don b. More branches have to be built ; an expenditure of that description is wanted; und the Government takes authority, under this contract, to rtpply the proceeds of the stock, •fee, iti extensions and other things on the road. I say, therefore, that the wiiole calculations depend emphatically oa the [ accuracy of the surprising estimates which, I un vouched and discrepant from former esti- mates, have been laid before us. There is a third alternative. The hon. gentleman says it is either pay or hand over the road. I say that you may and probably will find the Company knocking at your doors again for further aid. I say that if you. set them the example of these lavish subsidies, deal- ing as tlipy have with outside enterprises, going on in tlie magnificent method in which they aie going on, committed as you are, not merely by taking this mortgage but by .2fiving these guarantees, you are power- less to close your hands asainst their f tui '^ri All demands; and I say that although you may put in all these terrible clauses about the Company ceasing to own the road if they make default ; of tho road being ipso facto the property of the Govern- ment; of the employees of the Company, Sli»«AK,>ES.: ■ 98 by some wonderful process of transmuta- 1 tioD, becoming the employees of the Gov- ernment — though you may make all these propositions, which are in themselves enough to appal the stoutest heart, if he did now know the ways ot a Canadian Gov- ernment, yet the Oompany may make default and may not lose the road. We have had other companies which did not lose their roads under similar circurastan- 063. We had the Grand Trunk, to which we make advances on a first lien, a very first lien, a splendid first lien, and where is that lien now ? It is away down among the dead men. I believe it is seen in the Public Accounts and in our balances, but it is visible nowhere else. So it might be here. It is impossible not to recognize the lesson and the story of the past, wlien looking at the present, and trying to fore- cast the future. And in what position would the Government and Parliament be if at the end of these two j ears default should be made ? Are you going to sacrifice the interest of those shareholc^ers — those poor people who have spent money on the road, who have done so much good to the country, who have built a road faster than ever a road was built before and spent more money upon it than ever was spent before ] Your charity and confidence and sympathy aie immense: are you going to foreclose, hard hearted usurers that you ard] You, who said yourselves that the security was worth two or three times the sum advanced, are j;n\ going to shut dowii and ^^..•n these people out of house and home, strip them ot their palaces, take away their lordly equipages'? Surely you will not behave so badly ! That will be the appeal which will be made ; that will be the appeal which will be listened to. The past tells us what the future will be. Now, then, the hon, gentleman ha-* stated that the prosperity of North- West is due to the rapid construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway and he gave us a number of mo it interesting figures with reference to the development of thit country in the last three years. We all rejoice in this development, and we are a'l familiar with the figures. We have had them before us many times. We know that the North -Wfist has crown. V)ut the question is not without another side to it. For example, the hon. gentleman told us that he had received from lands, from the fii-st of July, 3881, to the 31st December, 1883, 13,572,000. We know that that in- cluded the early payments on colonization schemes, and therefore it does not represent anything like a permanent source of incomritorv. The hon. gentleman has said that the cost of transport is enormously reduced. I was. glad to hear that cheap rates are to be given ; but when the hon. gentleman compared the old all-rail rate of .f31.50 from Quebec to 29 I on colonization oeg not represent source of income enig | gre^s and prosperity aie not being attained, tercepted at Buflalo or elsewhere by 'he.; It is not fantastic calculations, made on a .ake(! agents, but that steps will be taken ; ma,'nificent scale, on a desk in an office, protect them agaiiiHt having any prefer- 1 widch only requires a pencil and paper to ■ce for the United States over Canada, ! work out — it is only the actual life of the we shall be able to keep them in our | peoi'le living there, that will tell ; and it is. id 11 country. I have always felt a certain iiount of humiliition myself that we shoul 1 ol)l:ged to bring in our own immigrants I'ough a foreign country; though I had ouiht that the merits of our own country oiiid have been sufficient, even in that se, to induce them to go through to their istination in spite of the eflorts of Anieri therefore, de })ly to be regretted, that we should have suyh actual reaults detaded as have, to a large extent, been pul)lished to the world during the last few months. I agree witli the hon. gentleman in his re marks on the fi ost. That, no doubt, was an affliction which extended over a .very large extent of territory, where it uagents. How much ad vantage theremight I was more exceptional than in the North- ittMtiM ^1; 80 I: West We may fairly conclude that that was an unexpected contingency on a recurrenoeof which we need hardly coimt if due precautions, such as the hon. gentle- forth, I think that to-day they are much more easily changed than they used to be. I think that if the Canadian Pa^iho Kail- wav is built ao as to offer a good access, a . •' . ,• 1 ..u^.f^.n r.r>Tmn n nicfttion ifdueprecautio^,Buoha8thehon ge^le- -^^ ^^ ^^^rshortcr 5>mmunication man has referred to, are taken Though | J^J^^^^JJ \;t^^,,„ ^be one «ide of the con- we cannot deny that there is a liability to ^fto . tner ^ froBt in some i^ortions of that country still | ^^'l^^^,^ S^^^^J, "f the tSffic, no thatsuchacalamity.onalargescale Bhould jable to ob^^^ f constructed a y.ar or recur i^ not to be -expected; and I t' luk it matter wiie ner it ^^^ ^^^^^/ ^ ^^^ • ^i_i J. i.i.«+ nciiian'il and unexoected recur is noL wj "u cx^dvu^", — >- - right to say that causual and unexpected as it wa'i, it was extremely unfortunate, and if the expectations of the Goyernment and of the country at larsa as to immigra- x: «^4. *„ifilltvH fnthft extent we would two earlier, or a year or two later. 1 do not at all believe that the traffic will bo prevented from poing there, if it is the best . r , X • ;«.w. pnnrl from th'i simplc clrcumstance that i»s and of the country at larga as to immigw- ^^^yj,^ Jg aelayed a year or two ; and I tion ar« not fulfilled tothe exten we wouM l^^^'XeJ^MyoJ energies now< to wish, I dare say it will be largely due to « J> '^J ^^^^^^^^^ ^j I, railway to the north that unfortunate accident for which ^JS^.f S Srio^, and from the Eocky are not responsible. But 1 do regr^ that j ^ Lake ^upm^^^ ^^^^ while that occurred at a critica period, ever j ^^^^'^^^ \l ^^ ,^^, /^„ ai4 preveutin,'. gje to be regretted, whish we could not ^^\Pl ;;^7X; f/om doing wU is m^^^ impel- |lU so many ihings have happened by our ff^*^ y^"^^^^^^^^^ the North-Westj^^- in this House and the a=ts of our Executive taut ^^ ^he inio^s^« arrangements to ent. r in the Council Chamber, which cou^dh tntoTcombTnt ol with%he Corupan., are miuviui, "^"•"o "t into a combination with the tompan/;,! identifying the Government as the endo'.%^ era of its dividends, as the mortgagees cT, its road, to such an extent and so intimat<^ j been avoided, and which, concurring with this unfortunate accident, have damped the honps and weakened, to some extent, the Xes of the people in that countiy, and ^Xtrcrm7n;,7rarii;7eaIoTs.^uri^ divSted to a large extent the ^'^^iS^S kie clo^^^^^^^ of October last^tlK who would have settled m our ^lorth-Wost t^^« g^o"«^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ .^^dit of Oanada- to go elsewhere, and .give their «^«^S^^« ^^ f^^P^'^J,^ that your arrange^ buUding up other interests, ^l^^^^^^' 1 'l\\t,~wMch involve, the raising by thislhiD gentlemen will remember that if the North- jments-w^ , ^^^ Canadalu t • ^est wants anything it wants reasonable ! ^^^^J^^/^^^^^^^^^^ Within a periodlpp; rates, the right to build railways, and "!^o^« 1^^° ;° ™7Yf something approximating|u railways, and that as speedly as P°;,^^^l^ J^7oO 000 a year, be^^^^^ we have theftsij That is the kind of development that i. |20,W^^^^^^^ ^be ^U wanted there, and that country IS ^^J 'o uuix.^d m^^s^^^^^ ^ ^ .^^.JL deeply interested in the construction of the oOO^OUU w .^^^^ i^^^ad of t^U enl: Now the whole object of this pro- ^ama ^ t^,^^^ .^ ^^^^^ ^^ tnngibl A^c posal is placed on a very s.mple ^J«^.,YJ "ZTe , ^ven for its extraordinary haste |e the hon. gentleman. He says, that it is arun ^^.^^ ^^^ ^^^, not because the Company wants this money there s no ^r.ume p ^^^ ^^^^m to fulfil their contract. He says speaking ^f y^f/J^.^is a^'re.sou why we shouh* somewhat more strongly than Mr. Stephen "^^^^ ^^^ "^^^^^^^^ . this is a re.-uson wh.|^ does in his letter that it is certam that the S^^^^^'^^^^^^^^ 4em $22,500,000 otf Company do not want anything whate ei ^^^'^'\^^ ,,^^ ^^^,,, baud the hon.|: to tulfil their contract, and by lb91 the ^^^fj' ^'J^j^, ^,,^ j,o hop of coavj road will b. finished according to their oon-gentl^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^ tract, and will be oi^era^ed ^f^e^wards if P^^!f^°^^' ^^ ^^^.^opoly. He says, indeed* we reject this proposition. _ But he says^ 'fr,, 'Hs the road is fioishdi, 1 thinW. we wint this read to be finished by the end , ^« ^oj^^« the „„eonstitutionalltl of 1 S85. . A while ago it was to be haished , that ^^^^^^ ^;,j^^ Legislature of th-^ at the end of 1 888;^ now we_ want^it to be , vet^o l^ii^ ,f%anitoba-I thmk I may pro^ finished at the end oi 18«'>>^-- Jl^J^ ;^ ^ ^ i ,,in no longer do that. Bu. Partly to develop the North-West, partly to obtain, or earlier obtain, power to co'npetc with the Northern Pacifac Rail- way for the the trans-continental traflic Well, as to the grooves of trade, and so mise you I will no longer do that. BiU,- be savs, the contract must not be touched ^ wo ar'e determined not to interfere with 0.^ limit the contract in any way. Bat, Br the cmtract is being interfered with. 1 »>' 31 lay thoy are mnch mn they used to be. ladian Pacitio Rail- afer a good ncccss, a )rter communication 9 one side of the con- it will be very easily •e of the traffic, no onstructed a yaar ov or two later. I do , the traffic will bo there, if it w the best I clrcumatance that ite a year or two ; and I our energies now< to L^ railway to the north ind from the Rocky (iloops— by 8trainii\t; at, jou are preventinj' tr what is most impol - "ot the North -West; arrangements to ent<: r with the Companf/, ■rnment as the endo('K as the mortgagees ^^ xtent and so intimat<^ that instead of Hecuri\ of October last — tltV ;he credit of Canada able that your arrange security for the completion of the road is being handed oyer. The mode of paying tfee Bubeidy is being altered from the terms of the contract. A guarantee of stock is being given, which was not a term in the •ontract; $22,500,000 of our money is being loaned, which cef tainly was not em- braced in the contract. Suppose these terms had been put in the original Canadian Pacific Railway contract, would you have voted for it, Mr. Speaker? Therefore we ai-e not changing the contract ( And yet tiie hon. gentleman is right iu saying that the contract is not changed in one particu- lar. Although this enormous aid is given ii^ order that the road may be completed by lp86, it is not provided that the road shall is found that the work has been handled unfortunately, as it has been, when it is found that the Company, by its imprudent management, has excited animosities and hostilities which have been very unfortunate for the Company when it has been found that the road has been proceeded with, on account of this very speed, in an unfortu- nate manner ; when the creation of its capital stock has been unfortunate, and the Company has deprived itself of the confi- dence of the world of capitalists, it mubt be evident that the object of the Company is not speed to complete the road, but to get the money from us. The hon. gentleman has made out a case which is daring, which is audacious, but let us be prudent in our completed by 1885. Yon are providing \ action. Let us decide -hat no case has been tjiem with all the money to do it, but they j made out for this transaction, that it is Te just as free as they were before, in case I better to go on, on the terms of the contract l| is not finished by 1885. Now, Sir, what | as it is, without engaging the capital and Ver might have been the case before now, I credit of Canada to this enormous amount, rticularly when Parliament is called upon, i when no advantage will ensue from the I have shown, to alter the terms of this j alteration of our position and the entangle- ntract, in fivour of this Company, and to ments in which we will be involved by nt them great concessions — to do great | this proposal thac is not contained in jay fairly say : If you must ask yon must so give ; and when we shoul i call upon lem to give up that odious monopoly. ngs for them — now is the time whea we i the alternative now before us. I affirm first, the House has not been treated with due respect in reference to the obtaining of _, information and details which ought to have bich h going to do more than any other i been laid before u", in order that wo might )lv^, the raising by thislhing to injure the North-West Territories '• be able to juJge ; and secondly, upon such )ayi'n'» by the Canadalu the years to come. I say that this is an 1 facts as have been laid before us it is plain iipany, within a periodlpportimity when such a stipulation may i further enquiry is necessary; that ihose oxething approxiraatingpiriy be made, and when we may fairly ; things to which I have adverted with refer- ■' "^sist upon the resources which we are pro- ; ence to the contract (, the stock, the ac 'ding and enabling to be provided by all quisition of other rr.»tus, oucjht to be search- ese arrangements, not being applied to : ingly enquired into. It is better, in the iitensions, not contemplated by the con- i interests of the Company, that they should ct, to the American seaboard to the east. | be fully brought to light, and that all should le hoa. gentleman has said that history : understand exactly how the case stand's, and s not show to-day a more courageous or ' that the system of mystery, of concealment, the , because we have riyaswellas the $22 much to depress an of Canada, instead of t tieie is really no tangibl r its extraordinary haste i int uDon which we can" upon that yon can lay holdwring instance of action on the part of a of half truths, which has gone on should not ing ^ . a re.isou why we should' 5ck : this is a re.'ison wh^r- e them $22,500,000 of other hand the hon." out no hoje of com Lolds out no hope o nopoly. He says, indeed •oad is finished, 1 thinl^ lon'^ev unconstitutional! by'the Legislature of th toba— I think I may pro Qo longer do that. But fact must not be touched id not to interfere with on i iu any way. But, Sir, ing interfered with. TIk- ipany or government than that of this : continue further. It would have been bet ivernment when they entered into this \ ter for the Company if we had known the itracfc. Well, rt was audacious ; and the 'exact facts as to the guarantee when the •y promises upon which they induced the | guarantee was given, as to bhe stock when •liament of the country to assent to it, i the stock was issued, and as to the ac- (le audacious also, and this night is the I quisitions of other lines when the ac- iificatioQ of those promises— as I show | quisitions were made ; beca.use what w? did when I point out hew utterly and know imperfectly was magnified and a pletely the company has failed to realize j worae construction put upon the things chan '.e es,pectations on the faith of which j they might have borne if the truili was contract was made ;— because I do not ! known. The directors of the Company are also contractors for the execution of their works, and we have- no returns showing the particulars ot those contracts or esti- mates of the cost of construction of the pve the country will agree for a moment it is simply in order to finish this road I wo years that we are asked to engage \ada's credit for $30,000,000. When it «a*»«,**ntf;t-s^A?!a»Wil»v-i / 1 *"V." u%m:^, 32 lOHL" th. l-P°-'.'"-' "^^.t ;Vo :r wl* a .ate.- iut» *< tou^oept It. «o «« ""='; ™. '.,,;„,. „;llUvliioli no re «< condition of Uiin^s. fi^'^^^'^l^y'j'"^^^;;' which I pvctoiul no counterva^ln.^ be the Hubjact of ai«c"''«'«";" ^ ^^^ ^.'J^; tegen are ofleml I, therefore. eauU 'Qm nil ■r '■ ^ ..« S'-f-a ^5t* : V , K,' •'^l \3j*'>ta ■.-.J;.-;-*.. f,,^ -«rv J-^^^ •<* \:>< ^^, **_i''^i v^" %t!^,^ ' ■Ti 'J?»%"«^("