IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT.3) 4 // ^/ :/. z y. ^ p 1.0 I.I H ISA li£ >■! IK mi £ |£ 112.0 1.8 L25 iu II 1.6 71 "^ ^;; -^ (9^^ '/ # Photographic Sciences Corporation 33 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, N.Y. HSfiO (716) 872-4503 CIHM/ICMH Microfiche Series. CIHM/ICMH Collection de microfiches. Canadian Institute for Historical Microreproductions / Institut Canadian de microreproductions historiques Technical and Bibliographic Notaa/Notaa tachniquaa at bibliographiquaa The Institute has anempted to obtain the beat original copy available for filming. Features of this copy which may be bibiiographically unique, which may alter any of the imagea in the reproduction or which may significantly change the usual method of filming, are checked below. Coloured cowers/ Couverture de couleur I — I Covers damaged/ n Couverture endommagie Covers restored and/or laminated/ Couverture restaur^ et/ou pellicuide r~n Cover title missing/ Le titre de couverture manque □ Coloured maps/ Cartes gAographiques en couleur n n n n Coloured ink (i.e. other than blue or black)/ Encre de couleur (i.e. autre que bleue ou noirol I I Coloured plataa and/or illustrations/ Planches et/ou illuatrations en couleur Bound with other material/ ReliA avec d'autres documents Tight binding may cause shadows or distortion along interior margin/ La re liure serrie peut causer de I'ombre ou de la distorsion k long de la marge intftrleure Blank leaves added during restoration may appear within the text. Whenever possible, these have been omitted from filming/ II se peut que certaines pages blanches ajouties lors d'une restauration apparaissent dans le texte. mais, lorsque cela itait possible, ces pages n'ont pas 6ti filmtes. Additional comments:/ Commentaires supplAmentaires; L'Institut a microfilm^ le meiileur axemplai's qu'il lui a itA possible dn se procurer. Les details de cet exejnplaire qui sont peut-itre uniques du point de vue bibliographique. qui peuvent modifier une image reproduite, ou qui peuvent exiger una modification dans la mtthode normale de filmage sont indiquis ci-dessous. □ Coloured pages/ Pages de couleur □ Pages damaged/ Pages endommagies I — I Pages restored and/or laminated/ D Pages restaur^es et/ou pelliculAes Pages discolou'itd. stained or foxei Pages dicolorins. tachetAes ou piquies Pages detached/ Pages ditachies Showthroughy Transparence Quality of prir Quality inAgale de I'impression Includes supplementary materii Comprend du mattriai suppiomentaire Only edition available/ Seule Edition disponible r~7| Pages discolou'itd. stained or foxed/ r~7] Pages detached/ r^l Showthrough/ I 1 Quality of print varies/ rn Includes supplementary material/ pn Only edition available/ Pages wholly or partially obscured by errata slips, tissues, etc., have been refilmed to ensure the best possible image/ Les pages totalement ou partieilement obscurcies per un feuillet d'errata, une pelure, etc., ont iti fiimies i nouveau de fa^on d obtenir la meilleure image possible. This item is filmed at the reduction ratio checked below/ Ce document est fiimi au taux de rMuction indiqui ci-dessous. IPX 14X 18X 22X — T \ r-1 I \ I I ^ I r-n 26X 30X 12X 16X 20X 24X 28X 32X Th« copy flim«d h«r« has b««n raproducad thank* to tha ganarosity of: LAgiilature du QuMmc QuMmc L'axamplaira fllmi fut raproduit griea i la fl4n4roait* da: LAgiilature du QuMmc QuMmc Tha imagaa appaaring hara ara tha baat quality poaajbia eonaidaring tha condition and lagibiiity of tha original copy and In kaaping with tha filming contract apacifieationa. Original copiaa In printad papar eovara ara filmad baginning with tha front covar and anding on tha last paga with a printad or illuatratad impraa< sion, or tha back covar whan appropriata. All othar original copiaa ara fiimad baginning on tha first paga with a printad or illuatratad impraa- •ion/and anding on tha taat paga with a printad or Illuatratad Impraaaion. Laa imagaa suivantaa ont tti raproduitaa avac la plua grand soin, compta tanu da la condition ct da la nattat* da l'axamplaira film*, at an conformitA avac laa conditiona du contrat da filmaga. Laa axamplalraa originaux dont la couvartura an papiar aat Imprim^a sont flSmAs an commandant par la pramiar plat at an tarminant soit par la damlAra paga qui eomporta una amprainta dimpraaaion ou .d'illuatration. soit par la sacond piat. aalon la ecs. Tous laa autras axamplairaa originaux sont filmto mi commandant par la pramiAra paga qui eomporta una amprainta dimpraaaion ou d'Ulustration at an tarminant par la damlAra paga qui eomporta una taila amprainta. Tha last racordad frama on aach microfieha shall contain tha symbol -^» (moaning "CON- TINUED"), or tha symbol ▼ (moaning "END"), whichavar appliaa. Un daa symbolaa auh/ants apparaltra sur la damiAra Imaga da chaqua microfieha, salon la eaa: la symbols «*> signifia "A SUIVRE", la aymbola ▼ signifia "FIN". Mapa. piataa, charts, ate may ba filmad at diffarant raduction ratioa. Thoaa too larga to ba antiraly Inciudad in ona axposura ara fiimad baginning in tha uppar laft hand comar. loft to right and top to bottom, aa many framaa aa raquirad. Tha following diagrama lllustrata tha mathod: Laa cartaa, planchaa. tablaaux. ate. pauvant Atra fllmAa i daa taux dc rAduction diffirsnts. Lorsqua la documant aat trop grand pour itra raproduit an un saul cllch4, 11 aat film* i partir da I'angla supAriaur gaucha, da gaucha i droita. at da haut an baa. an pranant la nombra d'tmagaa n^casaaira. Laa diagrammas suivants illuatrant la ni*thoda. 1 2 3 4 5 6 LECTURE. Friday, February 18th, 1876. Admieal Sir HASTINGS R. YELVERTON, G.C.B., in the Chair. HOW BEST TO IMPROVE AKD KEEP UP THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTRY. Bj T. Brasset, Esq., M.P. It will be my object in the present paper to be practical. There has of late been too much vague declamation as to the decay of our British seamen. I do not therefore propose to dwell at length on the faults of our sailors, I shall prefer to occupy your time with proposals for amelio- rating their condition, their character, and their seamanship. It will be convenient to clear *he difficult path before us by statino- the number of foreigners employed, and the annual waste of seamen in our Merchant Service. With regard to the number of foreigners em- ployed under the British flag, while the proportion is, no doubt, con- siderable, the number does not increase. The proportion of foreigners to British seamen, which Avas 12-6 in 1864, was reduced to 10-87 in 1873. I may in this place observe, that some of the ablest of our shipowners have entei-tained the opinion that foreigners are an indispensable element in our Merchant SerAice. To quote only one authority, this opinion was expressed by Mr. Lamport, in giving evidence before Mr. Lindsay's Committee in 1860. He was asked, " What, in your opinion, would " have been the present state of things, had the navigation laws not "been repealed?" He replied, "I think there would ha\3 been " more British tonnage afloat than there is now, but I do not think we " should have been able to man our British ships with British sailors." " The rate of wages must have been tremendous, in order to brino- this " about." It has been computed that, from various causes — death, drowning, desertion, the giving up of employment at sea in order to obtain occupation on shore — our Mercantile Marine loses every year about 16,000 men. The apprenticeship system supplies about 3,500 men per annum, and the training-ships probably as many more. The boys not apprenticed, and the ordinary seamen, supply the remaining 9,000 men. As a matter of fact, no great difficulty has been experienced in obtaining the numoer of men required for the Merchant Service. The quality may have been unsatisfactoiy ; but the number has been adequate. Our shipowners have never experienced the difficulty which has been felt in Germany, where laden ships have been de- tained for weeks, because a crew could not be obtained. b f .. 2 HOW KK9T lO IMHIIOVE AND KRKI* UP In a recent com^nunication to The Times, Mr. Diinlop, a large ship- owner, of Glascfow, states that no shipowner finds any diflicnlty at the present time in n\annin<; his vessel ; and that, if tlie nmnher of sea- men wen; materially iT\i;reased, it eould only produce a redundancy. Havinf'' shown that there is no reasonal)le ground for a complaint of a detieiency in point of nundxT, we have now to consider the allegations as to the want of discipline and seainanship. It may he pointed out, in Imiiie, that the same eojuplaints liavo been urged before every Royal Commission and Committee of Parlia- ment Avhieh has been appointed, since the termination of the great Continental Wai-, to incpiire into maritime affairs. As on all similar occasions in the past, so in the latest inquiiyby the Royal Commission on unseawoi-thy ships, witness after vvitn(>ss dilated on the profligacy, the drunkenness, the pliysical, the ])rofessional, and the moral deterioration of our seamen. The IMercantile Marine is acknowledged to be the true backbone of the fighting Navy ; and those who heard the gloomy story could scarcely suppress a misgiving that England had forfeited her claim to be the mistress of the seas. When, however, we turn over the page of history, we find that the crcAvs even of our fighting vessels have often contained a large propoi'tion of ill- con ducted and unskilful men. Many sea- men serving in the Royal Navy in the early years of the present century, unwilling captives of the press-gang, were equally destitute of patriotism and fidelity. It has been said that, on one occasion, when the fleet was being paid olf at Portsmouth, a large number of the seamen refused to come on shore, and sailed direct to Brest to take service in the French Fleet. In the narrative of the capture of the British frigate "Macedonia " by the American frig-ite "United States," the historian James gives some details Avhich I shall venture to quote : — " The great proportion of British seamen among the crew of the American frigate accounted, it is said, for so many of her guns being named after British ships, and some of the most celebrated British naval victories. ' Captain Carden,' says Mr. Marshall, ' observing ' ' Victory ' painted on the ship's side over one port, and ' Nelson ' ' over another, asked Commodore Decatur the reason of so strange 'an anomaly; he answered: 'The men belonging to those guns ''served many yeai's with Lord Nelson, and in the 'Victory.' ' ' The crew of the gun named Nelson were once bargemen to that ' 'great chief, and they claim the privilege of iising his illustrious ' 'name in the way you have seen.' The Commodore also publicly ' declared to Captain Carden that there was not a seaman in his * ship who had not served from five to twelve years in a British ' man-of-war.' " Passing on to the inquiries by the j\Ianning Committee in 1853, the advantages, if any there were, of compulsory apprenticeship should have been conspicuou&ly shown in the high discipline of the Mercantile Marine at that period. What, how^ever, was the language held by the slipowners in regard to their crews ? It wns most unfavourable. The Chairman of the London Shipowners, I THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTRY. 8 Mr. Phillips, went so far as to floclnrp that the Heamen were a de- moralised race, and that the ]»eniiission to man British ships with foreign seamen would lie prnductive of great good. I am not attempting to denj that many of our merchant seamen are unworthy of the British flag, but when we are told that their condition is worse than it was, I ask for evidence in support of this unwelcome assertion. "What new circumstances have arisen to injure the character of our seamen ? Some influences there must have i)een working for their good. In part owing to the introduction of a test examination, our merchant ships are more ahly commanded than they were. Our seamen are acknowledged to be a better educated body ; the ships in which tliey sail are greatly improved in comfort, in safety, and in speed. In the old days there were no ships which could be compared with the noble iron clippers of the present day. On the other hand, we cannot fail to recognise the injurious tendency of some of the modern changes in the constitution of the Morchant Service. Steamers have drawn away the best men from the foreign- going sailing ships. A higher rate of wages is paid in steamers, an^^l they offer the further advantages of a shorter absence from, and a periodical return to, a home port, with superior provisions, lighter work, and better accommodation. In the foreign trade the best men, as a consequence, have been separated from the mass employed in the sailing ships ; and with a result analogous to that which followed in the French Army from the formation of an excessive number of corpfi d'clife, comprising the Imperial Guards, cavalry, and artillery. When the best recruits had been picked out for all those favoured corps, the residuum which re- mained to form the infantry of the line was destitute alike of physical vigour and of military ardour. Again, the groAvth of the large towns, which are the great entrepots of our maritime commerce, has tended to the degradation of the sea- men employed in the foreign trade. The temptations to vice multiply with the increasing density of the population ; in the smaller towns the atmosphere is less contaminated. It is more difficult to draw any general conclusion as to the quality of seamen than it is to ascertain the proportion which the supply bears to the demand; but there is one arithmetical test by which the efficiency of the crews can be partly determined, namely, by noting the increase or the reduction in the number of men employed to man a given tonnage. If this test be applied, it will be found that there is no evidence to show that there has been a deterioration in the quality of the seamen. In 1814, the Merchant Service gave employment to 173,000 men, or about the same number of men as in 1861 ; but in the interval the tonnage of our shipping had increased from 2,681,000 tons, at the earlier date, to 5,890,000 tons at the later. The proportion of men to 100 tons in sailing ships was 4-17 in 1854, 3'25 in 1869, and 3'22 in 1873. On the whole it would appear that, while our seamen have not deteriorated, yet the character and seamanship of a large number among 62 now KEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP Ul* them leaves much to bo desired. In the coastinpf trade, however, there are no comphiints. The vessels are n-anned by the owners or part owners luid tlicir families, just, as they have been for many years past. NeitluT ai-o tlicre any gouenii complaints on the part of owners of steamers. Mr. Melver, his partner, Mr. Burns, and Mr. Wilson, of Hull, when examined by the Duke of Somerset, spoke of their men in terms of commeiulatiou ; and their opinion, backed by the officials of the Board of Trade, presented a cheering contrast to the gloomy picture drawn by the owners of sailing vessels. On the other hand, in sailing shijjs emi)loyed in long voyages, the crews are composed of the residuum of the seamen — men too often without homes, and with- out cfharacters to lose, careless and i-eeklcss ns they have ever been, without the slightest spark of loyalty to their employers, and probably greatly inferior in all these resjiects to any class of skilled Avorkmen on shore. To what causes are we to ascribe these defects, and how can they be remedied ? Among the causes I would enumerate : — (1.) The absence of encouragements or pecuniary reward for good conduct or skilful seamanship ; (2.) Insufficiency of pay, at least, until a very recent date, and, in some ships, bad treatment ; (3.) The system of payment in advance before sailing, and the delay in paying off crews on their arrival in port; (4.) The want of .systematic triiining for seamen; (5.) The inadequate professional status of the officers of the Merchant Service. Taking these subjects in the order in which they have been enume- rated, we have first to deal with the question of wages. The owners of sailing ships stand alone among the employers of this country in expressing a universal concurrence of opinion that their men are deteriorating. The explanation is not far to seek. Until a A-ei'y recent period, the wages of seamen have been low by comparison with the reward of any description of laboui*, requiring the same skill and experience, ashore. Looking back to the earlier dates included in the tables, published by the Board of Trade, we find that the wages of an able sea- man I'arely exceeded oOs. a-month ; and when we take into view the many privations of a seaman's life, the inferiority of his situation to that of any other skilled labourer, was such, that, unless there had been some compensating circumstances, our .ships could not have been manned. There are two considerations which together have operated to keep down the wages of the seamen. The apprenticeship to the sea has been less expensive than the apprenticeship to any other skilled trade. " The fact," says Mr. Mill, "that a cour.se of in.struction is required " of even a low degree of costliness, or that the labourer must be " maintained, for a considerable time, from other sources, suffices " everywhere to exclude the great body of the labouring people from " the possibility of such competition." Boys, from the moment they go afloat, cease to be an expense to their parents ; hence the poorest among the labouring class, who alas ! form the majority, are able to bring up their sons to the sea. T THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTRY. 5 AgaiE, tho employment of the sailor has been ill-paid, because it lias been invostod with all the .liarinH vvhicli lu-long to an advcn- turouH life. " The dangers," says Adam Smith, " and hair-breadth " escapes of a life of adventures, instead of dishtuirtening young " people, seem frequently to recommend a trade to them. A tender •' mother among tho iiderior ranks of tho people is often afraid to " send her son to a seliool at a seaport town, lest the sight of tho " ships, and the eonvoraation and udventnres of the sailors should I' entice him to go to sea. The distant prospect of hazards frotn which " vvo can hope to extricate ourselves by c(nirage and address is not •' disagreeable to us, and does not raise tlio wages of labour in any " employment." In pointing out that in foreign-going sailing-ships generally, and especially in those Avhich have been the property of men of limited capital, the wages have not been sufficient to attract good men into the employment, I do not imply that there has been a selftsh unwil- lingness on the part of the shipowners to do jastice to the seamen. I am simply pointhig out that the conditions offered have been Icsa attractive than those presented by other employments. Quite recently tho wages of seamen have been advanced, doubtless in consequence of tho competition for labour, caused by the unpre- cedented activity of other branches of trade. It cannot now be said that the seaman is insufficiently rewarded. The rapid advance in the rate of pay, wliich has lately taken place, will in time produce its em)ct, and probably enconragc a large number of the youth of this country to look for employment afloat. Seamen, however, cannot be made in a day. The benefits to be derived from the increased supply of trained men will not be realised until the boys, avIio are now being attracted to the sea, have had sufficient time to learn their Inisiness. Bad treatment has been assigned as one of the reasons why in some vessels a difficulty has been experienced in regard to manning. When- ever it has been alleged that the scale of provisions ii>, any ships in the merchant service is insufficient, univer.sal indignation has been expressed by shipowners. In order, tlierofore, to prove that there is a foundation for what has been stated, I quote the following passage from the Report of Dr. iloe, Surgeon to the British Seanien's Hos- pital at Callao, in answer to a circuliir issued from the Board of Trade by Mr. Shaw Lefevre :— " By far the greater number of British " vessels which visit this port are those whieh lia\e made long xoyages ; " they have taken cargoes to .some port in China, Austnuia, Sew " Zealand, Brazil, tho East Indies, or elsewhere, and they have come " on here to load with gnano, having been on the average upwards " of a year in ])crforming the voyage from England to Callao" AInong^t " the crews of these vessels desertions are very frequent, the principal " causes being — " 1. The ])hysical condition of the seamen. " 2. The laet that a cunsiderable sum of money is due to each man " on his arrival here. " 3. The system prevailing al this port of paying three months' " wages in advance to each man who ships. • "*'>v iu:sr TO imi-uovk ani> kkki* ri» " At the IhitiMli hospital, in the four ymvH cuiiimeuciii;^ Ut October II lao.'), uikI eiuliiiK •■5"1 cascH of heurvy were " rm;iv»Ml ln,iu ;,7 vr.ssels, 27 ships ^uudii.K I'nch IhU a sin^Me case, I' ami i:} ships Heridiii^,' each nine ni.ses and upwards. < )|liiMii| iuvusli. |- ;^ation;s Were iiiNtilulfd into the cirrmnstiinci's attcnihmt on the 1^ voyages of 13 of the \ossuls, tiiu crews of which were allVctcd by •'sourvy, and our incpxirios have establishod tho ina(U'(|Uiicy of tliis '• diet to niaiiilaiu the health of sfanicn, even when suppleiueiited by '■ the anti-scorbutii's cnforeud by tho Merchant Shlppin^r Act of IH(J7 • as scurvy occurred in those vessels only in which tlio scale was " adhered to." The followin.ir scale will show tho comparative values of different articles of food as anti-scorbutics : — Powerful Aiill-sroHjii/lc.1. 1. Frt'sh Juicv vt';^otiil)li's, as raw polutoes, onions, &e. 2. iVe»h fruits, us oranges, apples. 8. Fruits and vegotablcx preserved in sugar, or otherwise, with their juices. Iiidifferpnt Anl.!-scorh ttfira. 1. Dried vegetiible mutter, us preserved potatooM, ponipresseU vegetables, &e. 2. Fre>h or preserved meats, especially with- in the t ropics. 3. Vinegnr. tiinio-juicoas founii on board iner- ehunt ships after 12 months' voj'uge. PoirerlessaHAiUi-ncorhnlie 1. Rieo, barley, sago, ar- rowroot, &'o. ^ Ihe salt beef and nalt pork constitute the main articles of a sea- ^ man s tood and are sup])osed to represent an amount of nourish. ^ ment wliich they aro far from containing. Scurvy is essentially ^ starvation, riie h,st,,ries of such cases as proved fatal on board ^ the ships. ,ukI they were not a few, showed that tho.se who laboui'od ^ longest and hardest were the first to die. Officers and others, who ^ were not required to use physical exertion, escaped the disease ^ One man was a prisoner, and fed on bread and water durin^r a ^ voyage of upwards of ninety days; he took scarcely any exercise, ^ and tor a considerable portion of the time never moxed from his ^ cell; he arrived here in good health and without a trace of scurvy whereas all his shipmates were more or less severely affected ^ ilie great majority of the cases of scurvy recorded above, ori<>-i- ^ nated in xtvssels, the crews of which were not allowed vegetabToa ^ whilst th,. ships were m port. Let it be assumed that the expense ot providing tood better adapted to maintain the health of the men would be greater than the expense of providing food according; t.; the scale now m use. The food supplied is but a part of the sea- men s wages, part of the value paid for their services. If there- tore, more value be given to the seaman in food, less will be required in money ; and no wages will be better appreciated by the seaman than good food." j ^ ^ v^r THE SEAMEN OF THR COUNTKf. 7 I earnestly hopr that all the suggestions contained in the letter of Dr. lloo may ho .i ' ^pted. The syMtein of iniikin;? advances oF wagcH to Hoamen i« a subject closely connected with tlio general ([iicstiou of thf? rale of pay. I cordially concur with the Uoynl Commission in their uidicsitating coiuhnniuitioii of tli(> advunce note. Seuiiuin are flie only class of working www who arc paid in advance lor lahour that lias not been performed, (t may be urged that it is hard to deny a snuill sum in advance to a inan who is about to cmi)ark on a ten months' voyage. It may be said that he has an oullit to provide and expenses to pay for his board on shore while seeking an engagement. The answer is, that in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, the money paid in advance is consumed in debaucihery; that the man comes on board destitute of clothes, but minus the month's wages. He has discounted his advance note at a usurious rate of interest, and has probably been paid not in money, but in the nu)st deleterious licpiors. The crimp alone has derived a profit on the transaction. Some shipowners have strongly opposed the abolition of the advance note. They have been accustomed to rely on the co-operation of the crimp to get their men on board before sailing, and they n ppro- hend that the abolition of the advance note will lead to a small riso of wages. For the reasons I have stated, I disagree with the objections to the reform proposed by the Royal Commission. Until a seaman is taught to dejiend u{)on his past earnings, to be sutHciently careful of the largo sums often received on paying off, so as to be able to provide therefrom the kit required for the next voyage, you cannot look for improvement in their moral character. The delay in paying off is at least as fruitful of evil as the payment of wages in advance. If a delay of forty-eight hours occurs after the arrival of a ship in dock, the seamen are necessarily thrown into the hands of the crimps. True it is that sailors' homes have been established at the large ports, and they have done great good; but, after all, the sailor's home l)eiirs a close re.seniblanee to an e.nd)ellished prison, and is not the genial and iittractivo hostel, to which a sailor would naturally i-esort, who has bfen cribbed, cubinLU, and coiiHned under tiglit discipline for niiiny months lai board ship. Captain Dawson has enlarged in a recent jiaper in such sympathetic language on the necessity for an imiueiliate settlement of wages alter the arrival of a ship, that I need not insist i'urther on tiiis point. 1 would offer one more suggestion connected with the question of wages vvhicii ought not to be omitted in a general review of this subject, although it is not within the province of legislation to remedy the evil which I seek to point out. Surely it is a mistake in the ^lerchaiit Service to pay every seaman 'before the mast at the same rate. \i'^' preserving this unbroken uuilorraity, you may, it is true, avoid the risk of e.'ceiting envy and jealousy among the crew; but on the other hand, you give no encouragement under such a sytem to special exertion and good conduct. You draw no distinction between efficiency and utter 8 now BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP UP inexperience, between tlie genuine able seaman, and the man who has uo right to claim that rating. Piece-work is impossible on board shin ; at least on board ships engaged in the foreign trade. On a coasting voyage, ns, for example, in tlie colliers plying between the north- eastern ports and the Thames, the plan of paying by the run Avas universal, but this arrangement is inapplicable to" the Indian or the colonial trade. If, however, payment by results cannot be introduced ; it becomes the more essential to encourage merit by a flow of promotion, and by advantages in point of pay. In the numerous ratings in the Eoyal Navy, we have an example of what may be done m this direction. The regulations of the xN'avv in this and all other matters are well worthy of study by shipowners. They represent the traditions of an ancient service, and the thoughts of many uigenious and capable officers, whose business it has been to maincain the disciphiu' and to animate the exertions of numerous crews. There sliould be a voluntary examination for the rating of A.B. The exaimnation should be practical and interlocutory, 'similar to that which candidates for admission to the Naval Reserve arereuuired topass. Shipowners would know that men. who could obtain a cer- tiheate of A.B by exaujiuation, were not impostors; and captains ought to l)e allowed by their owners to give higher wages to cer- tificated men. As soon as it became known that somethfng was to be gain. ' by passing an examination, every seaman would tiy to pass It might then be expedient to require that a man should have passed the examination, before he was allowed to ship as an able seaman. i may mention that several Seamen's Associations have petitioned to Parliament in favour of this prop .al. Such a regulation would involve no hardship on tlie shijiowner. He would be left perfectly tree m the selection of his ci-ew and could snip as large or as small a proportion of A.B.'s as hetliought fit. Again, an increase of imy should be given for good conduct. This Z d'^i.- -^ ,■■ -^'•'f'^^"' ""'^^ other shipowners of Liverpool, a>id Mr. lialtour, who was specially sent up to e-Jve evidence before the commission as to the deterioration of seamen, admitted that the com- plaints which h- pourod forth so profusely, did not apply to tlie men, who saded in his ships. Would it not c(jst less and would not ^,he mercliantmen be more ethciently mauneu, if higher wages -zero paid, fewer hands employed, and more care taken in the selection of the crew ? It is a common practice witli shipowners to defer the engagement of the crew, until a day cr two before their ships are ready to sail. The captain is then msti-ucted to go down to the shipping office, aud ia an liour to collect together a crew for a - oyage round the world, from among a number oi men whom he r.as nevar seen before. In what other trade can a parallel fv quoted to this haphazard and perilous -system? Would it be ijasonablo to expect that the skilled labour required for a ship- Dmlders yard or an engineering works could be obtained at a moment s notice by .sending out a foreman into the adjacent hio-hway'-^ In all well-organized mdustrial cstablishn.ents it is the custom to keen together a nucleus of workmen; and this is done even in bad times n>. \ THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTRY. d aud when the payment of the men's wages is a heavy loss to the em ploy ei'. Here I would offer a remark on the desirability of more frequent {■nd direct personal relations between the shipowners and their seamen. When shipowners eompluin that their seamen are not anxious to promote their emi)loyers' interests, that they show no gratitude for the care and the money which have been freely lavished, to furnish them with good provisions, to make their forecastles comfortable, and to supply them, it may be, with bouks and otlier advautaa-es not included in the letter of tue bond, it must be remembered that mere liberality will not suffice to arouse the sentiment of personal loj-alty. A non- resident proprietor may let his land at low rents, and be more than liberal m the repairs of his cottages, and yet, iinless he lives among the people on Ins estate he will fail to keep up the warm and devoted attachment, which, in feudal times and since, has so often united together the owner and the tillers of the soil. I have dwelt, I fear, too long on the question of wages. Except in the abolition of tlie advance note, and perhaps in requiring payment of a certain rate of interest for every day's delay in the settlement of wages, after tlie arrival of the ship, the subject is beyond the scope of legislation. It is for the sliipowuers to consider the question, and by a wise generosity to encourage a good class of our working population to follow the sea. It IS now neeesKury to refer to the subject of training seamen for the Merehaut Service. The abolition of compulsory apprenticeship has been dejjlored by many, and the alleged deterioration of seamen has been attributed to tlie relaxation of the laws by which it was enforced. We have, however, the testimony of the late Mr. Lamport and others, to show that compulsory apprenticeship led to grave abuses. There is no reason why an ordinary seaman or boy should not pick up seamanship, as well, when serving in that capacity afloat as if he were regularly indentured. It is a fatal objection to the com- pulsory plan that boys, who are worth, anything, are certain to break their indentures. Such, at least, has been the experience of the wesent training ships. The Managing Committees have, therefore, determined not to ship any more boys as apprentices. I now turn to another and a less impracticable plan for increasing the supply of seamen by the establishment of additional school ships. I commence by considering the proposal in a politico-economical aspect. An artificial training system, must, if it is to produce a radical im- provement m tiio personnel of (nir vast Merchant IS'avy, be carried out on a verv extended scale. Now, if by such an extended training system yt.a succeed in producing a large" additional number of seamen" you introduce a disturbing element into the maritime labour-market, which must have the effect of depreciating the rate of wages. But it has been already shown that the wages of seamen have, until a recent date, been lower than those earned by any other class of skilled workmen ; and the inference has been drawn that the inferiority in rt^ 10 HOW BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP UP the quality of seamen lias been attributable to tbat cau.sc. If; on tlio other hand, you limit the number of boy.s in training, in .strict accord- ance with the requirements of the Naval Reserve,--and the Liverpool s]iip(nviier.s, who are the warmest and ablest advocates of the trainiiKJ- .system, liave never suggested that we sliould go further,— then you will fail m producing any appreciable impro\ement in the efficiency and supply of seamen for the .Merchant Service. Having given my most careful consideration to this question, and having studied the various plans proposed from time to time by Sir Frederick Grey and others, I ha,ve arrived at the conclusion that the scheme projected by the Maiming Committee, and approved by Sir Frederick Grey, is the only practicable plan. Aity scheme {'<)r a partial contribution by the G-overment and the shipowners woulil break down, because the majority of the shipowners will not contribute voluntarily, and you cannot m fairness extort a contribution under tlie coui])uisiou of law. The only reliable source, to which we can look for pecuniary aid in support of training ships, is the public purse; and the State can- not be called upon to expend a sixpence more than it is necessary to lay out in order to provide for the wants of the public service The plan of the Maiming Commission was, as it is well known, to establish ten school ships, distributed at the principal ports. Bach ship was to be capable of receiving 200 boys, lOOof whom were to be nomi- nated by the Admiralty and siippoited by the State ; the remaining 100 were to be day boarders, who were to be maintained at the expense of their friends. The .hips were to be moored to a quay, so as to giv(; ready access to the .shore. A commencement might be made upon the plan of the Commission by establishing a ship of the class described at a tew of the principal ports. One or two might be estal)lished at Liverpool, another at Cardiff, another at Cork, another at Glaso-ow and one m the Tyne. In each of these ships lOO boarders should be° entered under an engagement to join the Naval Reserve. They should be trained according to the plan of tiie Commissi.m, for one year, on pre- cisely the same system now adopted on board the " St. Vincent." At sixteen they should go to sea in the Merchant Service ; at twenty they should be required to join the Navy for ayear, to be trained in gunnery, according to the plan sketched out by Captahi Wilson in his recent lecture befcjre this Institution. In each of the school ships there would be vacancies for luO additional boys, who might bo either boarders or day boarders. Ihe fees for the day boarders might be paid by the Lducation Department. The boarders would be supported by the sub- scriptiuns of th_ mercliants and shipowners, or by the contributions of wealthy and benevolent persons, desirous of availing themselves of the facilities, afforded by the Government on behalf of poor boys, in whom they might feel an interest. The number of bo.ys in training in the school ships at Portsmouth and Plymouth should be reduced, so that the aggregate number should not be increased by the est.ibb.sUment of the new training ships at the commercial ports. If the plan succeeded, the number of naval school ships at the commercial ports mi"-ht be gradually increased. ° The recent destruction by fire of the " Warspite " and the " GoUatU " -^ .n^- rt^ TllK SEAMLN OF THE COUNrKYT. 11 ..Jb .tu- bas aroused the public interest iu the training ships ; and the gallantry and discipline exliibited by the youtliful crews have been accepted as a proof that the training tliej receive is perfect in all respects. The belief has accordingly been gaining ground that the difficulty of man- ning the Merchant Service satisfactorily can be met by the inultiplica- tion of training ships of the same class. In my judgment there could n^t be a greater mistake, and in that belief I am coutirrned by Captain Wilson, and by many other competent authorities, whose opinions I might quote if the time at my disposal permitted. Let us acknowledge with thankfulness the good work that is being done on board tliese charitable, industrial, or rel'ormatory ships. I wish God speed to the benevolent men, who have sought to rescue hundreds and thousands of little children from the vile associations, in which they have been bjrn and to bring them up to an honest calling. But let us not suppose that the lowmorahty of our forecastles, which lins been so deeply, and, alas! m too many cases so justly, deplored, can be raised by recruiting the Merchant Service from the pauper and criminal classes. We want to draw the great mass of our seamen from pure and untainted soui-ces ; and if we wish that our honest and self-supporting artisans should send their sons to sea, we must give them some assurance that they will not be thrown among boys of another class, with whom they would be afraid to allow them to associate on shore. _ It has been already said that the training of seamen in school ships IS alter all an artificial system. The open sea is the only true place for training seamen. Already the greate*it difhculty is experienced in the JNavy in finding ships for sending the boys, trained by the Admiralty, to sea. *' I, therefore, venture to suggest a plan for encouraging shipowners to take apprentices under an engagement, at the end of their apprentice- ship to serve for a year in the :N"avy in sea-going ships, according to the plan of Sir Fredorick Grey, or iu barracks according to the plan of Laptain Wilson. These Government aided apprentices should not be entered until the age of lo. At 10 they would be out of their time, and they would be only 20 at the close of their year of service in the i!^avy. The following scale of bounty to shipowners and apprentices is suggested for discussion. It may be premised that the ships should be of a class adapted for instructing boys in seamanship, the number of boys limited in proportion to the tonnage, and the boys themselves approved by an Officer representing the Admiralty. For every apprentice so selected the shipcnvners should receive, at the eud of the first year, a bonus of 15/., and a further bonus might be paid to the shipowner at the end of the second vear of 51 In the third year the apprentice should receive a gratuity 'of 61, which would sup- plement his wages, and be an encouragement to him not to break his indentures. At the end of the fourth year, on joining the Xavy, the apprentice should receive a further bonus of Wl. The total amount of these payments is 35/., an insignificant sum in comparison with the cost of training a boy in tlie Navy from his enrolment until he becomes an able seaman. The seamen trained under this svstem would have been afioat in sea going ships throughout their apprenticeship, and 12 HOW BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP UP would only require drill in gunnery, in order to become valuable auxiliaries to the Royal Navy. The consideration of the condition of our seamen would be imperfect without some allusion to the necessity of establishing a pension fund, in all the other leading maritime states, provisions has been made for the mamtenance of seamen in old ago and in sickness. The most complete organization for this puipose is to be found in France, where It was established by the great Colbert as a co-ordinate and essential part of his plan for compulsory service in the Navy. The institution has been maintained in its integrity to the present time. The subject received the most ample consideration from Lord Ellen- borough's commission, who most strongly recommended the establish- ment of a compulsory self-supporting Seamen's Pension Fund. The subject has been incidentally examined by the Manning Commission and Mr, Lmdsay's Committee, and the proposals of Lord Ellenborough have received their warmest approbation. It has been calculated tlfat a payment of IZ., a year, commencing at the ao-e of 14, would provide a pension of 12Z., a year at the age of 50, of 15^,, at the a"-e of o2, and of 18?., a year at the age of 55. In this calculation allowance is made for a considerable number of seceders. The Govern- ment possess in the numerous shipping otKces the clerical staff necessary tor carrying out the recommendations, which have so often been made in favour of a Seamen's Pension Fund. While I trust that some if not all the suggestions contained in this paper may be approved by the shipowners and the legislature, and pro- duce their anticipated fruits in the amelioration of the condition of our seamen, I am well aware that it is in vain to expect, by any plans for their improvement, that we can neutralize entirely the evil influences under which our seamen, from the nature of their calling, are com- polled to live. The sailor boy must quit his home at a tender age, and must pass his youth amid the temptations to be found in every seaport. How much of whatever there is of good in human nature— frad it must be at the best— is derived from home influences. " We loT'e the precepts for the teacher's sake." In proportion as we value these blessings for ourselves, we shall sympathise with the sailor in his moral and social privations; and reioice that among his class there are to l)e found so many who have escaped the contaminating influences to which they are exposed. Having dealt with the case of seamen, I turn to the Ofiicers of the Merchant Service. The Duke of Somerset's Commission, followino- the unanimous opinion of the Avitnesses, whom they had examinee!^ spoke m highly favourable terms of the Officers of the Merchant Service. They said that the Board of Trade examinations had exercised a beneficial influence in raising the standard of education, and attainment in the art of navigation, and that the improvement among the Officers offered a bright contrast to the deterioration among the seamen. None will be found to dispute the general truth of these conclusions. There is reason, however, to believe that in the nautical profession i- I i s r 4 r I THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTRY. 13 many may yet be found equally unworthy in character and in know- ledge to occupy the important position of a ship master. Several members of the Consular Body, in their replies to the letter of inquiry in 1872, adverted to the deficiencies of the British ship masters, and to their bad conduct on shore. Mr. Gould, in his Report on the British Maritime Service in the Baltic, gives some figures, which show that British shipping is being gradually displaced by the Swedes and Norwegians, and he attributes their superiority in the race, not as it might have been expected, from the general tone of the shipowr- jrs, to the faults of the seamen, but rather to the inferiority of our ship- masters. Mr. Gould specially refers to the utter ignorance of foreign languages, displayed by the English, in marked contrast with the German and Scandinavian Officers, all of whom have received a good commercial education, and speak English and probably other languages in addition. Several of the Consuls allude to the insufficiency of the the salaries given to Officers of the Merchant Service. Unquestion- ably ship-masters are underpaid, as compared with persons of equal responsibility on shore, but the remedy lies with the parties to the bargain. The Legislature cannot interfere, and public opinion cannot do much. It is certain that there is immense competition among the more educated men before the mast for promotion to the qnarter-deck ; and the shipowner has a perfect right to take advantage of any turn of the market in his favour, provided always that the Officers employed are equal to their work. In our own day, as in all former times, the Officers of the Merchant Service have been a mixed and various body, including many gentlemen of high bearing and education, and, at the lower end of the scale, no inconsiderable number, who possess none of the qualifications necessary, even for the most modest command. It is indeed unnecessary to insist on the same standard of excellence in all cases. The value of the ship and of the cargo, and the extent and difficulty of the voyage, must be taken into consideration by the ship- owner, in determining the amount of salary which he must give, and the qualifications which he will require in the commander of his ship. Every commander in the Merchant Service cannot be highly paidj but many are not so liberally rewarded as -hey ought to be. The illiberality of certain ship-owners was severely criticised by Captain Toynbee, in his speech at the Society of Arts in their last session, when he referred to ships of 800 tons in the East India trade, where the masters were receiving only £10 a-month. Even in the best employment every Officer below the rank of Master is badly paid. The expectation of promotion is an inducement to subordinates to serve for years on a small pittance of from £4 to £7 a-mouth, con- siderably less in short than the wages of the carpenter or the boat- swain, who are working under their orders. Allowing that the Government cannot do very much to elevate the professional status of th'^ Officers of the Merchant Service, and that it can do nothing to increase .leir rate of pay, I venture to make one or two suggestions, which I should be glad to see adopted by the depart- ments concerned. The Board of Trade may raise the status, and improve the qualifications of the merchant Officers, by enlarging the 14 HOW BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP UP ' -i Z?A f nffi ^'^7"»'^t'"f . «"^1 l^y giving n corHficntc- of a superior ^ade to Officers who conld pass in one or more languages, in which a certain rol„quml tachty shonld be required. To these, acquirements, comniercinl suhioets, including, for example, the theory of foroi^n exchanges, and the elements of commercial law, might bo added with advantage. If the good results, which I venture to anticipate, were to follow from the encouragement, thus afforded, to a wider range of study, the Board of Trade might be justified in making the higher certihcates, which at first should be the reward of those who passed a voluntary examination, a necessary qualification for the command of any ship exceeding a certain tonnage. The Admiralty might co-operate in this important work, and rendei- a great service to the country, by requiring all Officers, before tliev receive commissions in the Reserve, to serve on probation for a year m the Royal Navy. Here again I am only repeatimr a proposal already made by Captain Wilson. The advantages of such a reo-ula- tion ought to be mutual. The mercantile Officers would become in some degree familiar with the duties they would be called upon to perform m time of war, and the Admiralty would have an opportunity of testing the qualifications of candidates, before giving them commis- sions. In future, all Officers before they enter the Reserve, should be required to go through a three months' course of gunnery at Ports- mouth; tliey should receive adequate pay while so employed; and if Reserve ^ reasonable progress, should be dismissed from the It would be an encouragement to nautical study, and a graceful recognition of the Merchant Service, if a few students'hips were founded at the Naval Umversityat Greenwich, which should be opened to com- petition by all officers, after four years' service at sea as mate or master of a meiThant-ship. They should be tenable for one year, and should be ot sufficient annual value to cover the necessary expenses of the student, and to give him in addition a sum equivalent to the income which he would have earned, if he had been following his profession. u''"?'?Tn?'*' ^''''^^ ""^ *^^ studentships would cost the Government about £120 a year. Five might be ofPered in the first instance, one of which should be reserved for Scotland, and another for Ireland • and the number might be increased if the experiment proved a success The good example of the Government might probably find imitators among the merchant princes and shipowners, who would found nautical studentships, just as fellowships were founded by pious and benevolent men m ancient times at Oxford and Cambridge. It is necessary that I should conclude. Many difficulties in the wav of carrying out my latter suggestions may present themselves to the minds ot Naval Officers, even thougli thoy are sincerelv disposed to wel- come as comrades and messmates the representatives "of the Mercantile Marine. Something, however, must be done to make the resources of our maritime trade in men and ships available for the emergency of war. The maritime armaments of the great continental powers lia-e been developed m such vast proportions, that it is only by the develop, ment of our naval strength, that our country can maintain he.- claim to >J» •Jf I THE 8RAMKN OF THE COUNTRY. 15 rank as a first-rate power. Our fleets cannot, however, be increased withont such additions to the eptimates, as the country would never tolerate in time of peace. Naval expenditure may be economized by keeping a large proportion of your Otlicers and men on half-pay or in harbour ships, but a naval force tfives a fallacious appearance of strength, unless it be kept in full efficiency by frequent employment atloat. It should, therefore, be the aim of our naval administrators to create a thoroughly reliable reserve in the Merchant Service. The officers .and the men of the Reserve must be made sailors in the mari- time trade of the country, and they must be trained to the use of arms in the Navy. Once more, if it be true that the condition of the Mer(thant Service is not in all respects satisfactory ; if yon want to raise the tone and the professional standing of the mercliant Officers, and to improve the seamanship, and to raise the character of their crews, a closer intercourse with the accomplished and high-spirited ofBcei's and well-disciplined seamen of the sister service will prove the most effectual means of accomplishing the end in view. I began with an enumeration of the causes of the alleged deteriora- tion of seamen ; I conclude with an enumei'ation of the remedial mea- sures proposed. They are : — (1.) The abolition of the advance notes. (2.) The shipowners to be required to allow interest in case of iinnecessfiry delay in paying off their crews. (3.) The Government to give a bonus to shipowners for apprentices, trained under suitable conditions, and under engagement to serve for a year in the Navy, and afterwards to join the Reserve. (4.) Training ships under the Admiralty to be established at the commercial ports, according to the plan of the Manning Commission. (5.) A compulsory self-supporting Seamen's Pension Fund to be established under the management of the Board of Trade and the guai-antee of the State. (6.) Voluntary examinations in modern languages and commercial subjects to be established for masters and mates ; studentships for the otHcers of the Merchant Service to be founded at Greenwich. (7.) A scale of provisions to be prepared by the Board of Trade, and ships bound on long ocean voyages to be required to be provided accordingly. Tlie Chaieman : Mr. Shaw Lefevre has very kindly ofPei-ed to give u« a few re- marks on the subject, and I will ask him to begin. Mr. Shaw Lefevre, M.P. : I presume it is out of kind consideration to my Parliamentary duties, which may call me hence in a few minutes, that you have asked me to lead this discussion. In the presence of so many able and more distinguished persons, I have considerable hesitation in doing so ; but at all events, it gives nie the opjiortunity of being the first to thank my friend Mr. Brassey for his exiremely interesting nnd able paper. It shows, as all his works do, tUat deep study, that fairness and moderation of views, and that sense of public duty which so distinguish him. With most of his premises I most cordially agree. We have talked over the questions together on many occasions, and I think we have worked out some of them together. I agree with him in thinking that there has been great exaggeration in what lias been said with regard to the deterioration of 16 now BEST TO IMPROVK AND K"fiEP UP our seamen, which I issued rs Ills Mr. Bnvsspy was good enough to auoto from tho rephos to the oiroulH id wlien I was ut tho lioiird of Irtido five yeiirs ago to our Cdiiiu., abroad. Thoi^o replies might, with great advantage, be eompared to replies made to a similar circular issued by tho Board of Trade tweiitj-lirc years preyiously, and if you compare those two sets of replies, you will find that nlany as are the {'(.m- plaints recently made by our Consids. they were far greater I weiity-live years m'^o. I think without a single exception t\venty-firo years ago every Coiisul condcnureii our sailors in every possible way ; but if you look at the replies which have l>eeu published in nnsw r to tho circular, which I issued tlireo years ago, you will Hud that though a great number of Consuls spenk in very unfavoura'blo" terms of uur seamen, yet a good many othei-s speak nmch more favourably. My impression is, therefore, that the seamen have not deteriorated; but I believe public attention has been much more called to the sul)ject, that tho seamen ha\c not iniiu'oved relatively bo much as other classes, bo that there is still too mueli reason lo complain of their general condition. Weamen we must recollect are somewjiat of an international class: they sutler from evils not only at home )>ut abroad, and when we know the condition of things at places like Callao, Quebec, New York! San Francisco, and many other ports where our seamen are brought into eontictwilh influences of the worst character, we cannot be altogether surprised that they have not joined in the general improvement which we see in other classes. Mr.Bras-wners should understand tluit this duty should fall upon them. It may be said that the Naval Service may require it ; but I think it is very easy to show that the Naval Serviee is quite sutlieicntly provided for irrespective of the boys we may train in this way. I do not intend to go intj the discussion that we had in this \i'ry place some time ago in regard to the entry of boys for seamen in the Navy; but I showed then that we have in the Navy sufficient men to send all possible ships that we have to sea on the outbreak of war without calling on our Reserves. In addition to that, we hare the Coast Guard men, and some four thousand Naval pensioners ; but we have also twelve thousand first class Naval Reserve men, and I think Lord Gilford will say that if these men can be obtained at the opening of war with such additional training as might be given in a few weeks or a montli, they would be an extremely available class. But now, what is the possibility of the wants of the Navy at the outbreak of a war? T presimie nobody supposes that you would hire sailing vessels to send to sea. What we shall want seamen for, will be to send them on board steamers. No doubt we shall have to cover the sea with steamers, carrying one or two guns each ; and I presume the extreme number would be every steamer in the Merchant Service of this country. Now, what are the number of able seamen required to man all those steamers ? I recollect going into the matter with Mr. Mayo, the Registrar of Seamen, and the calculation we made after careful enquiry was that all the steamers of this country are altogether manned by about 12,000 able seamen. Well, we have 12,000 Naval Reserve men ('not for fighting"), no doubt, but we have 12,000 Reserve men; and supposing we hired all these steamers with their crews, we shoidd be able to place the Naval Reserve men on board, and, as I say, these steamers would not carry more than one or two guns, and a few trained men would be amply sufficient for them. Therefore I do not think there is any such claim upon the Government as would comjiel us to pay the expense of training boys for the Merchant Service. For my part, I am ready from a Governmental point of view to contribute towards the training of boys for the Merchant Service ; but in the main I do think that the charge should fall upon the shipowners of this country. I have often heard it said that the shipowners find very great difficulty in getting men at the present day. I think Mr. Brassey has, to a great extent, shown that that impression has not a true foundation; but I would ask this question, "Where do the yachtsmen get their " men ? " I have often had occasion to ask yachtsmen that question. It is a question of wages. They draw their men from a somewhat different class, from the fishermen of this country. The fishermen of this country are rather a higher class of people than the ordinary seamen. They are for the most part accustomed to fore and aft vessels, and are extremely tjseful for such vessels, and probably would be equally bo for steamers ; but the owners of yachts induce, by higher wage."!, some five or sis thousand men every year to come from their fishing trad© to the yachts. Now, I i I 16 HOW BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP UP would n»k whether shipowners, by offering better terins t-ouid not got men from th« same clous? For my part, I bclievo tlie quetition of the supply of tlic Mereliant Service i* in the nmin n (|uestioii )f wages, und if sliipowiiors give Hurtli'iont wages, thb men will not he Wiintiii);. Mr KnwiN Ciiaiavh k, C.B. : I wish to obscrro upon one point of the rory oble, 01(1, on the ^^llole, ni0'*t. iniportnnt nnd miti>fMetorv paper llmt 1ms been read hy Mi\ Urnsser. (!i • suhject of tniinin;,' i'cir tiie .M<'!rantile Marine. I t]iiiil<, tlio con- clusion uliicli lie has formed, and wliiiii my honouriiblo friend, Mr. Lefevro. hui forniea, on tlie snlijeft of timt tiainini;, hn« been eonlined to the examimilion of ilie outcome of the hiiininc; ships. Now there is experience, which, if it he fnirlv examined, will be found to he completely eoneluni\e in renpeet to the outcome of the training in schools on nliore, such ns, nt the I.imehoiise School, the Grei'uwioh School, and a number of other schools when' the t mining' has been Riven with a mast and n i^keleton deck, proving, beyond doubt, that on shore they nive iheni almost all that is re(nnsite for going on board, ex(e]>t their ,: the lead, and one or two other matters. If you examine ship captains, you will 'find that there is very little difference of opinion upon this i^oint. Tho'iffect of the training is marked practically in this way— that it is very cmmon, when one of those bovs comes on board, for the boatswain to say, "My lad, from what ship did \ou " come ? " He answers frequently, " I have been in no ship, I catne from a school ; " to which the boatswoin's reply is, generally, " You lie ; you are a deaerter." Mr. Erassey, snys, that it is very undesirable 'to train seamen from such polluted sources as the panper schools. Now, if I were to select any class at all ibr a good outcome, it would be the orplian cldldren brought up in" the district half-time schools, from th.eir infancy, and who have been uncontaminatcd by any association with adidt poupcrs as in the Union ,.ouscs, an essential distinction ; and if vou exai ine the outcome, and take the experievice of i>eople who have had experience of those boys, you will find that they stand in the hiirhest class ; there is not lung on board any of the training-ships that will exceed them, of this same class of children. I venture to say that, upon a recent report and examination as to the out- come on board the "Gcliath." It was an enquiry made from every ship and place where they had gom-, and the report was uniforndy good, with'excceflingly few exceptions. Now it is exeeedinijly important to consider these outcomes ; because, if you can train children on shore, you can provide a mast and skeleton deck for Bbout £500, and you may train about eight or ten times the number on this method that you do on board ship. I think if that be fairly examined, it will be found to be one of the most cheap and economical ways of providing for an mldition to the Mercantile Marine, and you would see in the result that it would be very desirable to have masts and these naval exercises extended throughout all the other p Mrts and all the elementary schools that are there. I want it almost exclusively on sanitary grounds, because it is found that in these schools the naval training is an exceedingly good addition to the gymnastic training. We got a man from the " lixeeUent," who gave the boys naval training and the exercise of the gnus, and altogether it is £0 valuable an addition to the gymnastics that pre requis-ite for the bodily treat- ment of these children, that I would r.-coinmei d its being imported into sclioo s for the simple up-bringini; of the children of the wage classes without any reference to any speciid service ; but for eivd nanual work, as well as for naval' and n.ihtary service. But, in respect of their choice, there is this dilliculiy of bridging (iver thetiire. They usually get them through the training in these shore-schools at about 13. aid there is the dilRcully of bridging over the lime till the 15th year, ■whei: they are left to choose for themselves ; they are not under obligation to'join the Service, but about 70 per cent, of them have hitherto volunteered for the Navy, and whenever they have the opportunity, they volunteer for the Eoval Marine. On asking the cause of their volunteering 'for the Royal Marine, the answer has been almost uniformly: " Because the Mereantde Marine is so dirty and " 60 disorderly." The difference between the two services in sanitary condition is attested by this fact, that the death rate in the Mercantile Marine is about 18 in 1,000, while setting aside accidents in the Royal Marine, exclusive of deaths, in service, and in the home stations, it is not above 6 in 1.000. One great element tas been omitted in the conwderation of this queatiou— as to lL« desire of the 4- { ^- 4- I J. TIIR SKAMKN OF TIIK COIINTUV. 10 •hippcrs thcmsolres to co-op.-ratfl in tlii*.. h in n pi-rfivtlv notorious fnrt, that Bliippors send out crows which wouhl not bo gout out hut "for full inHumnco, T thiiik more niijtlit bo naid upon (his ; l)ut I must onlr chnnonRc tho Im'ts as to the Buflh-ioncy of tlio oxiiiniimlion upon which tho oonch'iHon is based, that training and kcopinjT arc ndoquato (or securing the ncccssarj discipline, and arc not half bo expciiiivc n» in the (raining ships. Mr. Do.NAi.n CruKii; i Sir Ili.stintrs Yelvpr(on and Oentlenicn, — I Imd not expected to be called upon to s.iv aiijtliiiiK on (his Mil)ject, althou!;li it is one in winch ererj' Hhipowncr Hhoidd (ake a vctv deep in(ereM(, hut I will sTiv, as hnolh as jwjisible, ft word or two respect inr; (he points brouglit forward by Mr. Ih-n^scy. I do not know any ► question nt present is (his : how is the interest of the siiipownor since tlu' abolition of (he Navigation Laws, an I wiOi tho com- petition to wliicli ho is exposed, to be hronyht into harmony with tho national reiiuirements, wliidi should compel from him a ready acquiescence in anything thnt IS (or tho national good ? It is said, for example. Why should not tho wages cf A.B. s in the forecastle be paid according to their abditv ? I (hiiik it would bo nearly impossible to settle that, because you have no rule of judging before a man goes to sea, what his qualities are. The question is, will a man consent to go on tl'.e condition that the caiitain shall, upon his return, gauge his value!' That will boa question of contract, and a dillicult one. Again, if you carry out (he principlo involved in the suggestion of classing men as A.B.'s upon certificates, vou virtua'ly establish a trades union, and you play into the hands of those who have advocated this trades union. At the time certificated engineers were put into ships the great diflicuKy pointed out by steam-shipowners to tJio Board of Trade was this : " We cannot got qualified men with certificates," but the Board of Trade told us that tho Amalgamated Society of Engineers would get us plentv. At tliat (imo we had to send the worst of engineers, often drunken fellows, o,, board becaus- thev hold ccrtifleates ; so if you say noiv ; "We will oidy take four- vear A.B.'s," you will commence by limiting the" already small supply of s.amen available for our ships. This means beginning at (ho wrong end. l'(hink the great (liing is to hold out inducements to (he tailors to behave themselves, and by the encouragement of the ol 1 and friendly relationship bet we n t!;e sailor and the'sliipowner. That, however, is a matter not (o be settled by legislation, (hough there are certain legislative means by which, ]ierlmps, you can help to arrive at thnt end. I have Imd Masters of the Royid Navy and (.'aptains of frigi(es applying for command of one of onr steamers; but there is a natural feeling among (lie "Mercantile Marine that they should havo nothing (o do with naval men, while naval men do not care to associate with tho Mercantile Marini^ officers. Hence there is a v.-ant of sympathy between the one and the otner, which I would like to get done away wi'th by n'laking (hein inter- cliangeable in early youth. What is the inducement to a sailor'to go inTo a merchant ship H Very little as far as I can see. Three days ago 1 engaged a first-rate chief odicei — ^as good a man as anybody could find ; and having no immediate place for him as first ofllcer, I told him I could make him second officer. He agreed to it, but afterwards he came and told me that, as he lived in Scotland, and had°i large fai'nilv, he coul 1 not attoid to live here, and I found that, after twelve years at sea, that man has scarcely enough to live on. H. nee the question arises in mv mind. What can be done to raise the status and (he pay of officers, and the staUis and the pay of men ? The question is before (he Central Committee of Shijiownprs for con- sideration, liiere are six or seven jiiaus, one finds favour very much in the shape c2 90 now BK8T TO TMVROVF AND KFF.P UP put by Mr. BniMoy, whicli will Mcuro the advatitajf" "f propor early education and «)iilijrlif(.inneiit hikI a proper tone, unci wliieli, KetfiriR them info the Nawi and the Mercantile ^fl^rine aftiM-wiin"', will provide nonie reHonrce in tlieir old ««•"•• for very few Bailors «<) to sea alter I hey are filly, and I want to know where lliev Ro. The way to at service under the Coiistguard. If we had tlicse Coastt{uarse Institutions have been working with very great diftlculty. I speak of the "Chichester," the " Arethusa," and the vessel at Liverpool. Ihey have been working with very great ditlieulty by getting contri- butions from their friends to sujiport these vessels, and they have turned out a very large number of boys, some of whom have been proved, on being sent to Her Majesty s ships, to be quite equal to those boys that have been troinr,' .1. b..,-,-d the Implacable, ' and other sliips of the Navy. Now if we can train in vt..f Is o,' the diaraeter that I hnve described boys who are eilicicnt and can b toit In > 'he Navy tor £25, while we are training tlicm on board our own ships n( ,1 .pen:,' of £40. .£-50, or £()0. I think we ought to encourage the establishment of these vessels in every jwrt in P:iigland and Iivland. Some other remarks have been made to-dav which, perhaps, it is uimccessary f.)r me to touch ujion. There are so many naval rnen here of great experience, that it would be unworthy of me to make any remarks. Still, I wou.1,1 just touch upon the subject of our Britisli .seamen. T see three or four Ofluere here (under one or two of whom I had the honour of serving many years ago), oiH- u. .-. Imiral, who, when he commissioned a frigate, had the greatest difficulty m -cnv-.- men. ind what were the men we took on board our sliip ? I am speakiuj, o. :,^''B. ,Vhy, two-thirds were useless men, until we took them to «ea and instvw,'it>;u t hem. Tlierefore, we must not conceive that in days gone bv we had all thrje seamen whi.-h, we now look forward to, and suppose we ure to THK flKAMKN OP THE COUNTRY. 21 aei tliom at once, tor in 1840 llierc wiw very grniit dilHcuUy in procnring men for tlir Nav^, whioh ni.liKM'd Hii« (>ovHmiM.»n1 ulliiimtt'ly to tmiii boy*, imd Imvf coiiUmioui sorvicu MOrtniiM.. 1 liupiuMi inyst-U' |„ luivo served in tho Mi-ri'iintilo Miiriiio of thin countr.v for nmiiv yciirs. It i» qiijto triu' tlnit our incrwiiiiil.' mwmow in my curly dnys won't 111- lifNtNciiincn in tlio world, mid I bfli.'VP thost- Olllrcrs will toll you that flif Mien we rcrt-ivcd fmin In- .Vlerciinlile Murine were the bemt Heurnen wo got on board fliip, and they diil llieir duty in a most witislHetorv manner at>cr being properly eneourauod. Hut a Hcanmn in the N'avv now is 'a very dillereiil man f°,j*'"ir ''•;,"'"* '"'■•> >"'"'■" "«"• '" ^^•*'' '!"• I"<'' AdniinilSnmit. .■•mnnmndnin the 'Hutellite, wa« tiie lir»t nuin who introduced the h\M of exerri^inn neamen ns snudi arm men, and the lirnt employment of sailors oil shore for .solilicr/i' xcri'lcf was only in lHt7; and the diilieN whieji seniiien have now to perl'orm in eompariM.m with what they were forty yeinw ai,'o are so yariourt that the -teamen that we had IV Miowo days Ironi the Mereantile Marine would have been lolullv usbIchh now without t«el\e munttiH' exereise. I thereloro tliink we eaiiiiut do better than go on in the old syHlem of training men, not only for the Mereantile Marino but for the Navy ; and if we ean only arrange) in any way to work the two togetlier, mo that the men shall »erve a certain period of time in 'connection witli the Navv as well ai in tbo IV'.ereanliie Marine, then I think wo nIuiU attain a good object. Colonel Lord NVavknky : I havo neither professional knowledge nor experience, but I rise to supply a very remarknble oniis^sioii that 1 have observed tlirouglioiit the whole of this debate, and that is villi regard to the Miipjdy of seamen for tbo Marino .Service and for the Royal Navy, from coasts on which, 1 belii'vo, a son breaks which would try the Ofllcer.s, seamon, and ships of Ifor Majesty's Hcrviee, and therefore, according to all analogy, is likely to i)rodiice seamen." I speak of the supply that may bo expected from Ireland and her ports. It docs not appear to have boon present to the reeoUection of gentlemen that, at this moment, there is a ship, which has boon lying for some time in tbo Lough of Helfust, which has trained a con- siderable number of younj^ men drawn from the sources on which, some discredit, — but I think unroasonable discredit— has been cast, those who have been rescued from a life of poverty or a life of crime, and also those who havo taken shelter in Union Houses. I think I recollect that there was formerly a saying in the Royal Navy, that no Irish seamen wore to bo found, except between Cork Harbour ail'' the Old Head of Kinsalo. I know not how far that may bo true, but I think the establishment of t raining-sliips in the estuary of the Shannon, in the Harbour of Cork, in Belfast Jiough, and other parts of the Irish seas, will be of great advantage, and I would recommend it to the !ittention of Mr. Brassey, who has given us such an excelltnt exposition of the.sc matters, as a subject wolf worthy of consideration. The maritime enterprise of Ireland is not so' extensive, buf it reaches as far as the miiritime enterprise of other jmrts oii the country, and I hope that on a future occasion we shall hear, not, simiiiy of one training-ship in the liarbours of Ireland, but three, and jx-rliaps four. Captain I'^iklu, R.N. : I should like lo oiler a remark or two. T have listened with much pleasure to the leeture.given by Mr. iJnissey, and wo cannot be too thankful that we have a few civilians in the House of Commons who bring their minds to bear upon naval ipicstions. This is one worthy of the attention of statesmen ; but no stiitesnian as yet has attemiitcd to griq)plc'with it. I do not agree witli much that has fallen from him, though there was much also that 1 was denglited to listen to. I do not agree that it is the duty of the Slate to pay one single farthing towards finding seamen for the Merchant Service, taking it as a question by itself. It can only be defended on one principle— that it shoidd tend to give a "supply of men to the Navy in times of emergency. On that principle alone it is defensible. Mr. BUAS.SEY: I said (p. 119), "The Stale cannot he called iijion to expend a " sixpence more than it is necessary to lay out in order to ])rovide for the wants of " the public service." 1 quite agree with the gallant gentleman. Captain KiEi.u : But you speak of giving the shipowner a bonus to the extent of i,'35 for taking boys out of thc-so training-ships, or as apprentices. Mr. Beasskv : To serve for a year in the Navy, and be under perpetual obliga- tion to serve when trailed upon. Fi^ti) ; Even that I object to. I think that such paymeuls arc uuueces- r<«-. C*ii 22 HOAV BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEliP UP sary and indefensible. If they are unnecessary, they cannot be jusHfied, and I think I sliall be ivbh- to sliow thev iiiv« unnere^Hary. I quilo agree witl' the extension of tlie training sliip system round the coast, iind I think it is the only proper system for us to foster; but I see id nefc-sity for the Government *'> make special grunts tor such a purpo'^e. We need but an extension of our present educational svstem. We need 'lut to uuike (lovernmcnt capitation grants, as we do to our oriinary naiiouid schools, aud we could also call upon parenis to piiv or.lniarv school fees, as they do novvin the national scliools. Witli theseiccs. and a OoverMiuenl grant, jind vohmtary subscriptions, wc should be able to haven nautical svsleni of cdnrati(.'avy. W hy should not the State make the same rule with rcg n-d to I raining ships, and take the assent of the child by its signature, and compel the parents to a-ree that the child shall serve for ten years from the age of IS in the Naval Resen-e. I do not care for the one year service in the Navy ; 1 do not care one straw ior that ; but b.nd them at eighteen years of age, and let them receive some small retainer,— a matter of dciail, easily settled by the auihoritics. With lliat provision, and knowing that the shiinnvners would only be too anxious to get such la.ls, there would be no necessity 'or pa.\iiig the shi, owners a premium, but vast numbers of lads wouh! lie growing up for the Navy in the Naval Reserve. I do not agree with Mr. Shaw-Lcicvre with regard to the number of men wo should require in time of w-ar. I am conlulcnt that ten times the number he stated would be required. It is absurd to think that 12,0(K) men would be sullicient to man the steamers and fight thein, and scimr tlie seas in time of war. 12,000 would be of no service whatever to fight the steamers when armcil with guns (.Mr. L(>fevre said A.B.'s). I was surprised to find Mr. Brasscy state— but I presume he has good foundation for the statement — that the number of foreign seamen has diminished. I thought that was one of the evils which led to the diminution of the rate of wages, because there was such a large element of foreigners in the service ; but I am bound to accept his statement if he gives it. I can only speak practically. I live where seamen are con- stantly charged before me, as a magistrate, with mutiny and refusing to do duty on the high seas. Only last week a whole ship's crew of "Greeks were charged before me with refusing to do duty, ami tliere was not a single Knglishman, except the olTlcers in the ship. It was the most dimcult (picstion I ever had to deal with in my hie. Ihere was not one man who could speak proper English, but there was one who couhl speak oroken Lnghsh, and that man had coiumittcd the greatest offence. If I ladsent to ()xtord to get a protVssor of Greek, he could not have understood them ; but betore charging tlw man who could sjie ik the broken English, I spoke to him a few kind words m order to mduee him to fall in with my views. I then swore him in a« ttii interpreter, and .nade huu interpret the evidence against the others, and interpret r • i tfm THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTRY. 28 r • their answers back to me. Then having heard the minor case, we heard the case agamst hmiself. That is a curious illustration, showing that our ships are often manned with loroign seamen, and it is a terrible condition for Captains to have such crews. However, I am only too tliankful to Mr. Brassey and others who take up this question. Lnlortunately we Imvo not euou-h naval men in the House of Louimuiis to lake It up That is tlie proper place in which to Ihrasli it out, but some trood may loUow from di.scusoions in this theatre, if those in authority will tali'' noli (■ ol them. '' .\du,iral Ommaxney, C.B., F.R S. : With regard to the employment of foreigners, 1 shoul I hke to mentioa one g ariiig instance that camo h, 'ore "mv observation last year. J took pas.SMge in a sliiji of a very i.,iluential companv, 'wldeli received a very large subsidy ij-om the En^rij,], Governn,cut. The crew of the sliip, inclu ling stokers, numbered about GU liamis, every one of whom were either Italians or Greeks Un enquiry as to the reason fur not employing British seamen, 1 was informed that the loi-eigners jirovcd to be more sober. Mr. UKEAVKd : Mr. Chtiirinan and Gentlemen,— Tliere must; be an extraordinary apathy in the Merchant Service at the present time wlien vear after year meetings ot this sort are held and but very rarely does a shipmaster from the Mercantile Marine conic forwaid. I sup]iose the Mercantile Marine is demoralised by the presence of (orei-iiers. L or years [ have been wateliing t hese thiii-s. Can you sup- pose there 1. any honest pride in the young Englishman of the present day in Koiue into tlie Mercantile Marine, when they find confronting them in every grade of life a foreigner wlio IS more oiten ],referred because he will go cheaper, or appears to have manners less ferocious in independence than the Englisliman, and is more suave? L>o you suppose tliat boys will be recommended to go to sea by their parents, or counselled to do so by their friends, when tliey know tliis ? No, Sir ; I ahvavs say to boys, 'Remember this, that so soon as ever you have made your.self fit and capable to be brought on to tlie quarter-deck, and go tlirougli vour tirades, in overv grade that you go through, you will fin 1 yourself eonironted with a foreigner wiio is equally cs ecmod, and in many eases by a low cla.s of shipowners, much more csteemc 1 than you are." It is a difileult question, but the dilllcull v be.au at the tune that he Merchant .Slipping Act of IS.Jl was brought in. 'J'hoso who brought in that Act m.ght have looked down the vista of time and seen the whole of the "'era- tious m tlie .'statute Book as they now stand, as a necessary consequence of their beginning fl^e novo without knowing what they were goim; to begin about. I want to say souietliing about the status of the masters in n.crchaut ships, because at the conclusion ot the session of I he House of ( 'naimons last vear, Mr. Brassev mado some allusion to brmging forward some measure to improve' the status of Shipmasters. >ow 1 will ask how are you going to improve the status of the shipmaster, ah extra or ab inlra: \ou cannot doit ah exlra, but you can do it ab intra, and almost biy a stroke of the pen. I contend this, that the whole system of tlie education of Othcers 111 the Mercantile Ma rhie at the present moment is as thorouglilv upside down as It would be possible tor the ingenuity of a fiend to make it. It lias been decued that we shall all pass examinations, but it has nev..,- been decided that we sliould be educated upon those first principles that make the education almost a matter ot pastime,— of pastime almost to the youtli, but certainly a pasti ve to the up-grown man. ^\ e are examined upon what? Upon rules? ' Uo wc know the reason ot our rules .- Do we know anyt hiiig about spherical g omotry ? ])o we luiow anytliing about plane geometry, or trijionometry ? Can we tell the why and the wlicivtore, or the because, tliat lies at the back of the rule, and makes the rule a rule.'^ l.,u sliall test it in this way. You shall collect t e who\> of those in this country who are engaged in teaching navigation, and voii shall take the .'entleraau and examine him first, who is the inventor of the splu'i-eo-riph and ask liinriiow tliev 8^4, about th:- education of men ? T drty sliillin >s is p lid hv a sm irl voung Cellow who thinks his aril hmetic was pretty good when he was young, lie is gi'oun 1 tlirou'di the rules tor second mate ; lie is coa.'iied over and over again, and he goe^ up and liasses. i'or 10«. or lo.y. more he can be ground at the end of another vova<'e for only mate ; tor 10*. or 20.v., he can then uet nil the rules for passing for mate! and then. "T. hi". !-!.-:ii*.-> ha ..m-. .-r.-. ..i-. ....:...!:... i,, i •_ ■ .• .^ v, . ' i~ure, he can 10 on .„ , , ,. - ■ D o''i'i^^'"'-; to pass his exauiiiialiou i'ur Master;' and, U you take him the chiy after he passes his examination for Master, and tell him, " I 24 UOW BEST TO IMPJROVE AND KKKP ll' ^ do not want, any of these eulciilatioiis worked out, uitU tlioi.e niceties t hot have ^•been miiuv.ssed upon you, but will yov tell uie tlie why and the whei-elbre that ■ lies at the back of the rule, unil makes the rule a rule," he cannot do so. Now boys learn that at Die Blue Coat School. Last year I was down at the East End of London with two Officor.s belouKinj,' to one of the oldest and most honoured iirms in this country. Xatunilly we bcfiau to talk on this subject, and wc talked nunh in t:ns way. The elder, (he cliirf Oliiccr, a splendid fellow, said, "Tliere, if I had '■ been educated like that man," pouitinj; to the second Ofllccr, " 1 should be ten • tunes the man I am ;" and he certainly looked all over a man. "But," he said, '■ the tlifference between us is this, lie 'was eilucated at the Blue Coat School : he I' chose to go to sea ; be got 25 guineas and a watch; and only the other day he '^ went back to that school, after being away five years, and ]iass'ed bis examination " with credit, and got 25 guineas iiun-e ; but I was weaned upon rules, and brou'dit |- up on rules, and now tlie whole elfort of my life is to find out whv the rule is a " ride. ' As .Afr. Lindsay says, in the fourtli volume of his ])ook, owneis are sorely in want of men who have had tln'ir minds opened by education, so as to be fit and honourable rejnvsentativcs of them in foreiirn coi.ntries, and able to conduct their Lu^iue.s properly; and one of the most ditllcult things that a shi])master lias to do ni the present day, though be has taken his ship all round the world, is to sail through tlie ditliculties that beset hiin. We have initiated traimng-scho Is for the seamen of all the world, and now we are going to initiate training ships for ourselves. That is upside down, and we say we are going to educate those boys as a matter of benevolence, whe.: we ought to sav, we are doing oi,r dut v to our iieighbour as solemnly as we can th.it we may do oar duty to our God. Whether it is better to have ships or training establishments on snore is a matter that will settle itself. What we want is to redeem these poor gutter-snipes who otbcrwise must go to j rison for things which are regarded as crimes in them, but which arc never mentioned in a well-behaved houso. One half of them do not know better; but these are God's seedlings, an I it is our business to edu(;ate them, and they will go by a natural process into the Mercantile Msirine, or the Xavy.or some other industry ; but do you think it is rational to expect tbcin and tl'.eir parents to sit down and give a written obligation that at the end of a certain time they are going to pay you back l)y a number of years' service P Do you think you can ask any boy of 16 or 18 to make an aureemeiit to pay back in tune of service the value (jf the education he has got ? Why, the very boys whom y>c get into the Navy at 18, when they come to man's estate, 'see perfectly well that the bargain, from their point of view, does not sit fair and .square upon (heir shoulders, and they leave. IIow is the British Merchant Service going to atl'ord you anytliiiig like a sujjply of seamen when that service does not rear its oyvn ? IIow do you suppose the British :\lercantile Marine is going to thrive when there is such a large body of Ibreigiiers of all nations demoralising them ? There was a time when this yvas a country ; now it is a .shop. Well, if that is the ease, tlien abandon all these discussions; do not let iis have anv more meetings of this .-ort. Say what you arc going to do, and do it. If the State, as I contend, has a right to the service of every man in tlic Merchant Service, let us have some sensible way of combining tJie two, no empirical ideas, nothing of that .sort; but von will find that *on board a mevchant ship— and I, as a master of a merchant ship, know them fore and aft — our men have no sympathy with the Xaw, because they are are now a totally difl'crent class of men from tho.-e Hived with iii the forecastle in 183$ or 1835. There is no similarity at all. Why, on board the la>t ship but (me 1 had, we could talk eight langunj;es among 27 men ; no mat ler what you said, or what language you u-cd, so long as you gave the iii'ccssary paiitoinime.' We have heard a good deal about provisions in the Merchant Service being bad, and I have seen a considerable quantity, and periiaps tasted it. I will ask you, how is it a thousand barrels of meat, condemned lor the Koyal Naval Service, are jiassed out through the ship cbandlers, provision nu'rcbants, and so on, and find their way on hoard merchanl ships P Only the other day, a young fri-nd of mine told me that he was lying in Buenos Ayres, and, when the chielotllcer had gone ashore, they look the oiaioi'tunif v of calling alongside a gunboat there and askin": the Commander to R!>!id a Lieu- tenant on boanl to oxaimne their food, and the Lieutenaut came on board and THE SEAMliN OP THE COUNTRV. 2^ coiidemiiecl tho whole of tlio stores, and it ciime out of one of Her Majesty's jards. JNow, with regard to the question of apprenticeship, it is said that it is impossible to re-enact the law making apprenticeslup coni])ulsorv, as though we could not take two steps backward wnh the view of making a bold spring forward. I do not sets •why every sadnig slup shoidd not be obliged to take a certain number of apprentices tor a certain period, according to her tonnage. The ditliculty is nothing if you will but do It ; but if you go round about and talk all over this country about it, every- body has a private lion in their iiatli, which thev decline to go by on any considera- tion whatever, though they will go over and look at llicir neighbour's* lion. Tiiere is another reason why foreigners ought not to be placed in command of our ships. A ship IS an integral part of our Empire. The nnuster is a man itinln- authority ; the iioard of Trade sits pretty hard ui)on liitn ; liut he says to this man, " Go," and he goeth ; and 1 say that sucli a man ought to be a son of the soil. I say that every foreigner whom you permit to stand under your tlag, putting vour laws in force against his ship s company, is occupying the place of a son ol the soifj and in his place there is a son ot the soil walking al)out who is disallected by what passes around him, and he does not join the Royal Naval 8ervice and make" it that bully service winch It ought to be. You have lo^^t all the esprU de corps out of the Service, not because men are less honourable tlian they were 45 years ago wjien we swept ihe sea, hut simply because you liave done nothing at ah to foster it, but everything deliberately to kill it. At this pi'escnt moment the two services are separated, and one dilliculty that you have is this : jou do not hear the trutli. You have Koyal Commissions, and Special Commissions, and Committees, and you get all the most respectable men from all the great employs to give evidence. JVow, vou will find that the men lu the American, i he Canadian, the West Indian, the "I'acilic lines, know nothing about the Merchant Service. I was in command in the West Indian mail lor some years, and in fulfilment of our duties in carrying out our daily walk 111 lite, we hardly came in contact with anybody except our brother olHcers, and a class ot passengers ol the liighest re.-pectabihty, from whom we could learn by con- versation at the table that which we never learned belbre. Such men have no sympathy for the Monliant Service, and they really do look down on the Merchant Service. 1 beg their pardon, tliey do not look down ; they look over it. They do not know our wants, our troubles, and tlie dilllcidties that exist now between the master and the owner. We cease now to eiijov the I'onfidenco of our owners. Tiie telegraph does all the work. We are but the bell-wetlier to take our ship across the sea and back again ; hut if we have to be the laftver of our ships, to instruct counsel, and to do the wjiole thing liom begiiniiiig to eiul, so as to be conscientious and good servants to our owners, tlie.e is the position of dilliculty, and that is where we find that we are always behind hand. I do not presume to go into the question of the proportion of foreigners to iMigJislimeii, but I can say this, that it IS no use to introuuee decimals into those propm-tions. Decimals do not belong to tliese tilings. We are practical men. Oue more or one less as the years vary one against the other, is not two cliucks of a brass farthing in the argument. Ihe Enghshman is deteriorated ; you cannot llnd him in the quality, you cannot hnd hiin in the physical stamina, and you cannot ilud him in the ability. In fact, what we used to call A.B.'s are gone out of the Merchant Service, 'because the iSavy Reserve has got the elite of all the men, and, if you take all the best men out of all tne steaiiu'i's. who is going to lay out the coal to make all those steamers useful.-' ihciv ;s a practical «ay of looking at these things, and, if we are to be tostered,— grand-mothered, I believe, is the proper phrase now,— pray let it be done in an out-and-out practical spirit.' ' The iirescnl system of legislating for the Brilish Merchant Serrlve is the misera])le system of working tide's works witiioiit even taking " ttieyoiinc] of tlte Jtood" close in shore, and then standing boldly out and crossing the bodv of tlic Hood stream so as to make '■ a tide and half tide," and so long as this style of "legislathig for the greatest industry in the world obtahis, so long will all our dilliculties continue to increase. We arc in most critical position, the eyes of our eomi)etitors— of all the world- are upon us J and if wo are not recalled from our present condition of fatuous and judicial delusion, the finale must be tlie entire collapse of this nation. Trade and t. *r 26 HOW BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP UP Lord EsLiNGTON, M.P. : I will trespass, for a few uioraents, on a ground that will noraniend itself to the hearts of erervbody here. If there is one feelin;; stronger than another in the breast of every Englishman, and I hope every Englialnvoman also, it IS that of justice, and I wish to be allowed to say one word in justice to foreign seamen, because I hiu " this morning had an opportunity of conversins with a man who probably knows this subject as well as or better than any other "^man at this moment in K'igland. I shall not mention any niuues, int some friends here, who know tlie sliippinSL" inijuirv. for four years, into the condilion of the .Merchant .'Ser\ ice. Therefore, wlicu I sinic him as my autliority, it is no nu-an autliority. Now, I am going to state a fnct which he told me, whicli no doubt will stnrtk' a good many gcutleuien here present. Tlwre are, making all deductions, not more tliun ICdo'o aide se.imen in the Merchant Service of this comitry. Out of tlu- lf)(t,000 or IJO.uOt) Ei-itish seamen omploved in sliips clciinng and entering British ports, tliere are not more than 40,000 A. Ij.'s that are ihoroitfjhlii able seamen ! And how many of tliose able seamen does this meeting sup- pose are foreigners? Not less tluin 15,000! Tiiut is a fact ^o reiuarkablo that 1 think It will startle a great many persons who hear it. But let us follow ihat out a moment, and observe our position. First of all let. nie say, in justico to the loreigner whose character lias been rnther lijzhtly spoken of to-day, tliat 1 am in a position to state, without fear of eoidradiclion, that some of the best seamen in tlie Merchant Service at this moment— 1 say it as an Englishnuin, with sorrow, but with truth— are foreigners, and those men are drawn from Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and G-ermatiy. Now. we know that the character of those men is very like our own, and thev improve upon our character, because they are more docile," and more obedient, and more loyal to their superiors. That is a remark that I believe is a correct one. But now look at the position that we sliould be placed in, supp-'sing a sudden outbreak of war were to occur, and we have had bitter experience, not m tiiis coimlry, but in Europe, of what an outbreak of war means. It is a sudden and a sharp blow. Supposing a war, on any large scale, were to break out, we should probably lose at once something like 15,000 able seamen, because they are foreigners. Well, then, I come to the point my lionourablc friend has pressed upon us, and it is an official point which I have often heard in tlie House of Commons pressed, with some power and much authority, by persons in hii:;li ollicial situations. 'Ihcy talk very mucli, iind rather big, about having 12 000 Naval Keserve. Now, I want to ask auV First Lorii of the Adiniraliy, or anyone connected with the Admiralty, how manv of those men do they suppose they can get on a sudden outbreak of \var ; I do not believe they would get more than one-third of tliose men. They miglit get 4,000, and think tliemselves very lucky if they got them. But then, it' we are to' lose something near to 15,000 able -eamen— foreigners— and \ve are only to command, on a sudden out- break of war, the services of 4,000 Nuval Reserve' men, whv, our position is a very serious one. You have not got, to start with, above 40.000 a'ltoget her, and vou have got the whole commerce of this country to carry on, and at the same time vou have to form the first line of defence against any co'mbination of naval iiower 'that you may have to meet. It is an extraordinary thing to me that we are asked to vote vast sums of money, year by year, and expensive schemes are presented to us of mobilization of ibrces. and formation of camps, and iorlillcations to lock u))— Ci-od knows- how many thousands of our troops, but the question of our Naval Militia Beems to me never to enter into the minds of our legislators. We have gone on, for years, upon Bonaparte's motto, which is the falsest in the world, " Nous ne faisons rien, nous laissoiis faire." To trust the defence of thise islands to such a maxim as that seems to me the height of folly. We uiust take commence are a means to national str.mgth, and by tlie.se the nation is to be lu'iin- tained ; but if the nation is to be legislated for, 'as i/ our sole a iibitiou is to bo a shop governed by a sH ling and descending scale of coin-enlional hoaest'^, then our doom IS already written. In conclusion, we iiave had and enjoyed the prestige of the past solely because we are the trustees of the future and yet unborn geiu'ratmns What if we have betrayed this great National Trust ? ■'ff'/ I t. *p THE SEAiMliN OF THE COUNTftT. 2f fc*. ■ I, some step for tlu- conipre)iensiTe organization of our Naval Militia. I bclio\e that is the first duty of our statcMnen, but I have not the weiglit or authoritv to say whiit tlio cxnet form that it should take should be. I aus^ur well, liow- ever, from tlio efforts of sucli men ns my honourable friend, and these public discurisions, wliich, 1 trust, will awaken the mind of the eouutry to tlie vital impurtance nf this si.bjcct. I will only ask leave to say one more word. We have liL'nnl a great deal about the doiuoralisation of 'the Reauien. I have ntrende.l to this suhjpi-t u goo. I many years ; 1 do not protend to ho an authority, because I have not the moan- of beeoniing so, but by constant attention yaii must learu sona-thing, and I do not believe tliat. in thonis'elvos, the >eamen are one bit woi-sp, but probably rather l>etter, than they wore ; but there is a system of engaging and discharging soiiuion in this couniry which hjis been in prnetiec for a long time, and vvhich is most dotiiuiontal to (iiscipline. 1 allude to the engai;ement of the crews at the shipping ollice, aiiil I will tell, in two words, what l' behove \a be at the bottom of a good deal of that feeling, not of dislovalty, but of disrespect and dis- regard for their otHcers, which is fatal to discipline, and whieli is engendered aud fostered by that syslein. The seamen are not often very !li^.-hlv educated men, or men of the world, althougli they travel a good deal, and tiiey have a sort of idea m their minds that they owe a double allegiance, to the shipowner, in the first place, and to the shipping-master, who is a Board of Trade v)llicer, m the next place. That system of oiigaging crews imder the control and superintendence of the Board of Trade ollicial, which the shipping-master really is, tends to liroduce tliat feeling, and tends, moreover, to jjrevent the master having the opportunity of making the aequainlanco of his crew before he goes to sea. I believe that iliat is a most inisciuovoMs system ibr the country, because unless you can bring them into rehitionship with one another, it is impossible to expect that those cordial relations which should exist, will exist between them. They may form tlieinselves in the course of a long voyage, but then there is a svstera pursued which is very destructive to discipiiue, a^id tliat is the recording of the oilences iiud the reading them out from the hig to the seamen, however potty t lie offences mny be. That causes, in his mind a rankling feeling of antipathy to his olficer, knowing tli.it he will be punished or fined when he gets on shore. That is a very b:id .system. I won't detain you loni>er, but 1 think if this question of the sliippiug ollice is really looked into, you will find it was a very great mistake to supersede, even for the eo' lenieuee allbrded by the shipping-otiiec, the old system of enu'aging tlie crows imdor the responsibility of the master, as he chose, some few days before the ship sailed. Mr. CoEUY : I do not intend to make any observations at this late stage of the proceedings, but 1 wish to propose that this very intero'^ting discussion bo ad|0urned. I think there are a great many gentlemen who' would like to express their views on the subject. We have heard some very able speeches, and some verv diU'erent ex- pressions of ojiinion, and I think it might perhaps be an advantage if this subject were still iurthor discussed. If it is t he w ill of the meeting, I should move that this discussion be adjourned. The motion having been seconded by Captain Pim, R.N., with Mr. Brassey's acquiescence, the meetincr was adjourned to Thursday, 24tli instant, at three o'clock. The Chairman : Beio ' we separate, I am siu-e you will join with me in thanking Mr. Brassey for his very interesting lecture. 28 now BEST TO IMPROVE AND KEEP UP Adjourned Discussion. Thursday, February 24th, 187(1 Admikai. Sik HASTINGS- R. YEL7ERT0N, G.C.B, in the Chair. Mr. CoBEY :feir Hastings Yelverton, Ladies, unci Gentlemen : When I moved the adjournment of t u« debate, I was seareely aware of tlic responsibUity it devolved upon me, but still, as a praeti-al sliipowner and ns one who has liad eonsiderable experience on the question before us, I may be allowed to make a few remarks. 1 have listened with very nmeh pleasure indeed to Mr. Brassey's able, moderate, and suggestive paper, and with many of his suggestions I most heartily agree, yet to some 1 mu. take exeeption. Briefly alluding to some of the prineij.al features «.,ii ] T'l' I f ?°"'*^ ^'"''^ "^''''"-'^ '"'^ "■"« t^i-^' li'-' riif lier doubted whether our sdoi.s had deteriorated as a body. 1 think those who have liad praetieal experience S\.^ " . ' "!/' ''^"'' ^^''y ''""'-^ cleteriorated. I will not deJiv that, perhaps at the present t.me there are as many good sailors ns there were twiAitv years ago but there are certainly twice as many bad ones. Looking at the rapid pi^gress of our trade, it wsus scarcely possible that the quality eoukl have been kept up to the standard. JVow, a grewt many reasons can be urged whv sailors have deteriorated : «, ?.r*"'I"., ^^t'"'"""-^ ""ploy a large number of 'seamen, but do not make sailois. Another reason is, our shiixs are now titled in a ditlerent way to what they vereyearsago intact, the whole study of the sliipowner is how to dispense with Avhat we call skilled labour, that is to do as much work on =^ 'V -ery dililcult question, and one which has had the carelnl attention of our General Shipowners' Committee, and is a, Ifb l,"d ^^l'";'>,Vl'7l< .l'|- 'iW'' to miike and take in sail, but I ..1,1 only (hid 'four or iive men out ot tl'« "hole crew competent to steer the sjiip." (She carries a crew of fovtv men. all tod.) Now this sJiip IS r(-niarkably easily steered and has all the best appliances tor steering. Tins ^yill show you lliat the quality is certainly not what we would like to see. One ot tlu> remc-dies Mr. Brassey jiroposcs is the 'classification of sea- len. riiis, at first sight, looks very well indeed, but I think, as was pointed out tlie last meeting. It opens up a very dangerous question, that is llio question of rades tnicnn, and all who have had experienc' of Trades' Unions, would be very sorry to sec anything of the kind introduced at sea. We liave cuongh of (lis- comforts and annoyances without having tliis system introdiued in our sliips. \V„ can very wel understand, if tlie ships were rea'dy lor sea, tlie Tnidi^s' Unions niio-i,t Have It m their power to stop the ship and make their own terms, and theivfoiv. While it looks well, the dangers are .so great that shipowners as a body would fight, shy ot It. With regard to di.scharge, the discharge note should lie a certificate of classification and our captains arc to blame that it is not more so. Oi course anv one will take seamen who have good discharges for a number of years, and som'o captains will only- take men who liave gooil dis.'jiarges, and I think "this is tlie riglit track to go on. If a man cannot produce a discharge it is a sure sign that there i« something wrong about him. I have a case in point. I had a ship which lately went down to Gravesend with one of the crew deficient, and T was surprised to finrl the captain refusing to ship a powei-ful looking man who presented liimself, simply because he had no discliarge. The consequence was he had to take two, because the men who had discharges were not up to the mark in pht/aique. A suggestion was thrown out by Mr. Bras- > that we should retain picked seamen ^^lllle in port. I think that is scarcely practicable, at least in sailing ships after lon<' voyages I know that while in port they won't stay with us, and if they join a week or two before the time, as we sometimes allow tliem to do, they are comparatively useless as the deck men, who are trades unionists, will not work witli tlicm. Another point he brougiit out was the pL-rsonal intercourse of tlie owners with tlie seamen. JNow 1 cannot see very well how that can be accomplished. We, of course, as ho well knows, tlo not take cruises with our ships, and the only intercourses we may 1- -e IS in occasionally jroing down to Gravesend, when I do not think, as a rule, the men are in a iit state for social intercourse. We now come to the important question of training ships. This is a question occiipving a great deal of public attention and a great deal of shipowners' attention. It' is regarded by many- as a panacea tor all the evils connected with our seamen, and many pjiilanthropists look upon It as combining two very desirable o})jects, viz., getting rid of a dangerous cliiss of our rising population and making them worthv members of society. I do not altogether agree that it is a panacea for all the evils." but I believe it has manv good features, and therefore should lie eiK'ouraged. Unfortunatelv the great bulk o'f those who are at present in our trahiing ships, are not the class 'of boys we would select as our apprentices to make seamen of. I would much prefer a few lads hrought up on the coast or in the ccmntry, to any number of these waifs of society : 111 tact you can scarcely expect that th(.y will turn out anything but indiHenMit'lv. i heir early training and influences have been certainly not of the best clnmicteV. It a better class of boys can be induced to join, the result would no doubt be clUterent. I think, moreover, it is a very artificial svi.tem. Comparatively little training can be done on shore. Tf you wish to train a bov von must send "Jiira to sea, rnd 1 would suggest that proper cruises .should be iit'ted out merely for the '■ w.u ''f .. ..ii HFPi m ii- r/ 30 HOW BK8T TO I M PROVE AND KEKP UP purpoKo of instnieting tliese hoys. First tlicy would nniuire a oprtiiin niuount of trniuiiig on Blioro nnd then be tnnisfi'rrpd to tlu-sc spocinl cniisers, for tlio i)iirpopo of tcnchinp; \hom Homefhinp; of tlioir dutios nt son. I do not tliink Mr. Drnsepy's plan for siibsidizin;,' owners cnrryint: njipreiiticcs would work ; I do not tliink wo would like to ho .^o suhMdizod, Wc do not roquiro this nrtificinl help. Wo do carry nppronticos nil the liirno sliipownor-« d ■ ciirrv nppron1i(Os and ninny not only carry thoiii without prcuiiiinis but n'wr pivniiutiis 'instead of rooeiyinK tliciii. i may say, in ans\y:r to .some remarks mnde by j/entieinou who .spoke at the last mo;?ting about fnivii,'iierH, and espooially f.reiL'ii Otlloers luiyintr the preference, that four or fiyo of our present eajitains .serycd their time in our employ, and all the others liaye been Oflicers witli us, so that vye do not forsuke those who'haye served us. We tako apprentices really with the ol)ject of nmkiuf; our OlReers ; it is not with the idea of makniy; sailors, they are of too hipih a class for that. You cannot well combine the two classes, you cnunot take apprentioes and ordinaries or traininsj-sliip Iwys toftether, because, as in our own ]mictice, if we take apprentices we must liaye nil the rest A.TJ.'s, as we find when we do sliip all A.H.'s, that there are a Kreat many very ordinary ones anions; them. With rennrd to the pension fund for "raising the status of seamen, I think that ia a very desirable object, but you will not get Jack to subscribe to it. If it is done at all,' I have no lieiimtion iii saving it will be doro nt the e.\pense of the shipowner, that is, whatever ia put ir.to the' Pension Fund will be pi-actically a tax on the shijjowuers over and above liie waijes. The men will not be mulcted of their wages for any such object. The foreign element has been alluded to several times in this debate, nnd 'we cannot very well dispense with it. A gnat many of these foreigners are the best seamen we can get, all, in fact, from the northern coasts (Norway, Sweden, and Denmark) are the best and the mc't trustworthy men. In fact, we iimko sure that if such men sign articles, they will come on board sober and fit for their duties, nnd, therefore, we give them the pre- ference. We do not care for any southerners, as we find that they are not so trust- worthy nor such comjietent seamen. The northern men, as a rule, arc steady, sober, nnd very attentive to their duties, and are trained seamen ; broui,'ht, u]i from boy- hood along their coasts, they are really our very best men and we would certnin'y miss tlu'm. Lord Kslington made a veiT telling remnrk when he referred to what w-ould occur if all these 12,000 foreiLnicrs had to be dispersed in the event of a war. Now, I think the praetical effect would be, that that would not occur. The sailors of any piirticular nation with which we were at war would pcilmps leave our employ, but the bulk would stay where they were. 5Tr. Brnssey referred, with much leeling, to the dangers and temptations that beset the sailor. ' We all acknow- ledce that, and have to make creat allowances, and no one can tliink of these dangers and temptations to whicli the sailor is subject, without having his sympathies roused m his helialf and allowing vei-y large latitude for his misdemeanor^. Mr. Stiulixg Lacox : Sir Hastings Yelvcrton, T rise at this earlv period of the discussion to ask your permission to read a statement which appeared in the bhutpnifi Gazeite oi' last evening. You nve nwnre that delegates are now sitting in London from all the ports of the United Kinedom, T thirk as many as fifty and this statement haa been i)repar(d in order that it mav be submitted si'inultaneouslv to them and to this meeting. It contains a distinct proposition. i>ecause in readin"" the paper of the Honourable :\rember, I am at a loss to !;■ ow what bis i.roposition 18, or in fact wl nt is nt this moment tlie proposition before this meclin.T. ! Jo rot agree with the Honournble Mendier wiih ivgaid to .sennien's j-cnsions and seamen's funds. 'J he thing has been tiied over nnd over nirain. and wliat between the mnl- adniinistratu'n of then' funrlg, and a variety of c.iuscs. the funds are souandered and seldom get into the bands of those for whose benefit the fund wns established' At the latter part of (his statement, when I allude to the en plovment of the voune OtTicersot the >avy, I believe I shall adduce facts which pcrlinps will ra,. ;>f i ' 1 •! : ;|:r£M :'L;-|ir S-:Hs r = E[= orc,g,vn., .bo, equally w.th ouvselve., nnist bring nptlu-iro^!^ bo^ S-S^ he t V .^ If i " °." " ''"f"^"'' ^'"'^^^ ^liipowncrs 'vlu, take bovs ou-lit t S VV hat that .un. shall be ni.wt bo a matter of detail, but it n ust be made the interest ot the shipowner to take bow, or, al lea-t that be «l,..'l ,,.» 1> > mr lesi ::seih:-;Si-l-----?;^ ;; the e.penie of the coun,rv, p^.^! 'n; th lel^!! ^ ^ mg S,:';:^ ^^vt'a^lf ;• a. c and p.vtly u. Xaval barracks (great sires, has been aid 1,, on S i, or er U.at thcv nia.v roe ,ve .ueh trauung and discipline on shore as i -nve . nn7o Ger.na„y and Russia and ul.ieh cannot be acquired on board-shipf a t e e™' •:^Srs^-ofSsr:s£^£|^ t e course of time we should have a large body of trained men in the runtry wit the aforesaid sea legs and sea stomachs, «nd. in the event of wnrM.- f •' rich enough to engage them at war .ages ; the ^.esUoHf ^^y^i^gX^tlme :;• ** now BEST TO IMl'HOVE AND KEEI' UI' fouml that we "n«ht j^-t rul of Iho pn-nc-nt H.vstnn of tnunin/b nT^.a h Sv fo^ tho ^.u;> Mt a ..u>l ol i.'(i(» p..,. boy, n» coiiMmivd with £!'» .„... 1, "! i , .1 i' ;; training .h,p.. Jlo.vovor.'tlu- ^ly ,in,, i.,, !mih ';„[;';, , ^.; ,,:■•; j'S :: M... n,„. than on., ^vho ...h, J.^^ ":";I;;.S",;,/;;: .I' '";';;;•" .r:;;;:;;:..;;::tr pen«,on. or Hoanu-n any n.,,ro than I u.u for pension, in any oth .• r -h to o life By the scheme now proposed, a man niuler t weni y y.M.rs of ace is ..... ,1 [ "fair start in hfe a« a skilled labourer, and we want . k. b .. ., n ,"'^'"* ;; capful an,l nrovdent and it nn.t n-s, w„h l.m; Jheu.l'^.^'wi ^Z^'^H^ solt Ml his old ajic or lake his ehanee of llie workhon^e Tn.. . 1 r V • ;;yon„g Oineers c.>n 8ub.Lientonauts, wholeLle f;i;";Te\C^ great expense to the country, surely nn-ans micht be deyised hv «1, 1. fl • ;; might be indued to e.nploy then, .inring peac.^:; ^ do!.:' "VS^:'; . ^^ Russni.and thus enable them to aconire and keen .1.... .„.„, t, 1 , . ; ' , •• pr„f,...i„„, ,,n,l enuLmlly ,„ ■„,,|,1»,', ' ," 1. E ^ ' i S'Lf S, ""' "none but acrmans are to command German shins Snrelv .1,,.^ : "iii""re, «.,„.. ;™„., ,,„!■, i,,,,,, „.„,,, „^„ ji;,z;i„°yE ^s; t: ;:'x „ '""" "^ nffa.r-50,000 of these 70,000 are foreigners. No vve posse s in U.e M...e"''rf Jranne at least. 22,000 ships so that if vn.i n,.f ri, 1 Pos^css in the aiorcantiJe friend, Mr. Brassey! you haVe ubol f ono^l'td ih bLrtki^.f.^r'^ '\ "^ «h,p. Wh,.n a n,an conu. to a shipping-omee, and' it n L s'^lXo e^^J ^^v be registered under any name he likes, there is no necessity for liim even to on'n^.U mouth, and it is quite impossible for tlio siiipping-niaster to k w wT.etW^ 1- oreigner or an Englishman. On that account' Ihe^Bo" o li'a re u^t a • pe/ IC ;s^^&a5i t^tr::j:;t:f i^^:;-:;--:3 ^§^^^y them, that the crews of British slips are eom;'os:.rran';t>t:"oTn;:"'w^^^^ / ourlh.'i ; THE SKAMEN OP TIIR COUNTRY. 33 bo«rd. Last .year I ohtnined « re n ri , Z^ 7V' *'"' ""'i\K"Rli«'' <>" flgurPH arc porCrflv rlnMulf,,] for , v ). rl T °^ }°^^^om, nnd I tinnk the ofOin<.M-s in tho BritiM. M^r.a ,t MnHnn f. b ' i '«''^''f-">''''« '" Hie position BritiHh (1„.. 1 MHk. wl„... ' i ,,;^ " "^' ^"'^'"8 " 'T^ "V'-'-Jl"' «orl,l under tho war «oamon in tl.e MornnUil. M Sn'" vr ■„ Id no' '''o,"^; f'"' "' ?;""*' "" •'"' ^••'"^'' a^ porF..H 1, ..ti.fi.-d ,ou woukl Cu,; S' fo^U IS* 10 "itlli'l '"'' "'""• J that would, wanrethv dcpimarH of >nv. fVi,,., nr ,*;^' '"" '^"" ^'''n"!! Hoiinicn, und for ovory British ship \Vm tc r \n w'm ' ^''"r'sV*"- '■"""*'' '^"'' ""•" "'"• n« fnllneions us the idea H m wc h m- , nt' ""7*^™,"' ^''"' '^ "" "'*"" n'^""»' a return, thnt the nun her t menl "'' 'l'''^''''' "* "'"'"''"• ^^'« "'"1. l^y that h-ss tJinn 200 ^eam..n entered (he R .r,. V. '< -"•'«''-^- Last year we find me, who is well able to vSy , 1 .l.tio,; l(S>^r''l^-^r::^'r' ^"' f'"'^'" Mereantile Marine of ours, and how is lito be fllf.:! 1^^ " Sf •*'"' '''''{' '" '''■■" .vou can possibly " seare un " out of tI,-.V '•-.;.. 1 • ' ^^ '"''''''J' '^"•>' *'"''■ than 1,000 at tlu- very on de life In Z "^ l '^"' T ""•",°l *""^ ^° «'"" '""'•'^ If my n.emory is rig'ht, n 1845 we 1 Jl' ,C tfi Ijori'' '"' ^'r'^' "^ "^"' '^''^O^' there were only 4,G00. Adding u'oeo the 1 (K^0^o'^7"^''":T' "■'"^" >^* ^^"^ whieh is far in 'excess of the ma^-k, Z have 5 Stiff o nP '''"' *''", *""">"g-^lHPS. tlo you fill up that gap ? W y with fo vLn^;, "f, " ^"I' ''^ l^'^^"^- "o"' country. Mr. Corry is not t e'nnlV.; ^ f ' '''' '"'^^ ' *''" °"^™«^^ o^' o'"* own that Zt of heiJeivtrey ri^^^^^^^^^ cnptanis write home to complain known ships of 1,800 t ,r^ go to S wi ;;nlv ^"1" ''"" '"l" '\' 'l''^"^- ^ ^"^^^ the helm. Altogether tliere"s no dm, t 1.^ ' .'"™ on board who could take Marine, viewed tVon/tha nsn -ct h a LlLLTr'^ ,"^' "^^ ^^I<^r^antile will now touch slightly morlV reason wnVh "A " r''^' to cmeeive. I caused this deplorable -nSi/Jon of 1 "5 e S; mSc '7^^ "^^^ do not tram any boys at all. In this eountry wHmre IWOOO n ° k ^'^"'''' T sixteen years of age, more or less on tin I ;, 1, J i 1 ,''^ pauper-boys, under have 100,000 boysNhe sofw if ,mn S, ' ^ "*' ^"^ l^^'r ^"»""«1«. and we paupers. Xo w," ymi eouh no b a nol 0,;! v 1? *'°°' I '"' ^^''^ ''' "^^^ '^°°r to for seamen. Look at the i;;:titu,io i wii hi fk Jl '""il'f aT' •^^'""S "^^ IS one of the visiting justices at Feltlnm ■ 1 nl „f f ^ ,^ Adnnral near me SS;^s:3!;ir:Jt;;;tleS^^^^^^ inen live on board ship. As a SS I c?o no eon d^^'.rf 7, ''''''^'^'f "^^ ^^^^ ">« at all properlv fed. 1 do not consider tla? hT lv',1 /"* ^\' "'T^r'^r* ■'^"'"«" '» read to you a petition drawn up"; tie e' men hem 111 "'',""'' ^ '^","^'^ ^'^' *" Parliament last week. The peti o?i , 1^0^ '-n, / ""'^ P'?-!"^''"^ ^^ ™« *« " seamen, employed in the BritL IMeCnH fM ^^"^ y°»r Petitioners, British " vantages, bv reason of the eSt ve em Zm^^^^^^^ "'" '"^='r'^ r*" ^^eat disad- " other 'serious dmwbacks, which an onlv brremedieTt'''^'^^°'f ^"^^^' ^"^ " administered bv a responsible head " remedied by practical legislation tioS?tj;e^i;n?z..'"r p^^^:? ^r"r\h'""^°?^^^i "^^^ «"« "^--* - ^d- .eaitianot all a - thing^ ^ ^5;;^^ i;;.lt S^^^ e^ I ^ ^^^^^ 34 now BEST Tf» IMPKOVK AND KEEP ITp on .lK..v;„n.l U,..ro i' Vv, "o".. w 1^ " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ l"'" ^l' ^^^ «.,„plo.y,„ont vi.e in iHHau.c- it in in .-.wli a roiuli , ,', . ,.1 '^ .""" "'" '^'''"•'"'"t Scr- kn.w,o.«.. in ti.o .rou,; '/ .^:il::!w;r^!::;L^E 's;:;..;r',^r'i.,;';: :t '■'^:i'"" Lonrl.n. [ h..|i,.,v (I„.v won .1 . , wl ,. i ■^'•"""•"/ Protect io„ So-i.tr in nltogcti;eru„lii'^i;'f;'""^^nt ; si,., is im fret hns- to seek Ih/ (li.plaennen am h ^u J " ""ri ('""-^f '''^f^l I'V "'o.lel), she being that the sea fall's inbo," o Ur Tt ,u ufhi: s^e rn7\/''^' ""^^> ^'"' ''-"'^ is no doubt th. " London " went do n 1 1 ■ 1 1 b T ., ^''^ '"""' ^'""'- '^'''^•••« 200 odd stean.ers uhic-i. lu.ve vaS 1 i / t a t v 1' /''r,'" 'V'" 'l"""^^ ^''"^ ^'"^ four ship, n dav in this eountrv-of 1 L .J " ^ .'^''"•y '''"^■^''''-for we lose ten times their-heam lor L 't hnlt. 1 '%"''/l«i''>t that at least 200, with a big wave conun. over t e b w and s o^ 1?^?'"'^ ' '" '"''''"« *'^''''* 'li^Pl"<'"nent, a.T.idships. That is one a r. v n e7wo ,' 'oTr.n'"^ "',' """"'""S *'-" perfectly clear that this ship is Inll Z r^n V ,"° V ., " " m-^i-elnint ship. It is the wave., and the conseq Ue i .0 Jan in "^ the waves, and not to go over shred upon him, or any of elo hes di"v doJ "h t "''"\-' '' ""' '" ''"^^ "^ ^^''V to stand that If they eJn -'ct enXvmn,t^ ^ 1 o^ T" ,^".V,™""°t expect them cheese. Last vear I read "a pn?. ' cm t h sn ,V "^ T '"'' ""'-^^ ^'''' '^"'"' '"'™^J "'"' jnst read to you the renuIdvT ip^U '',,:: r;^"/;^ T'^'V '' ''''''' ""'^ ' -'" growl and not to susru.sl sonie hi.Mr to b, don f . ? f *" ."'^'''' "P°" " '"^"'1 remedy I proposed h.st v.ar w s i^,, a,"', ' .'! ViJ^i^'^t ^''^^\ ''V''"', "^"^^- ^he cantile .Afarine. Seront Iv a marit ,> T V, 1 p ,V V P""'' -''^' '"'"^ "I' ^''^ ^^^er- if the own.r of a ship Im VlV^ 71,^ I i,^^'?t^ •^'*^- / '^Z" P--*""'".^ certain you would not want Mr. I'lin.soH' r e "n Zl^ ^''V/""''" '' '"•""' ""'' '"^'^^'• cious good care not to run the ri'-k of m ,»!.'. ^ ^'"' •'"■"^'' """''• t»ke pre- lifeof anyone on boa . i. d l 1 ,°ro^^^^^^^ I'f.n for the loss of' the not merely fov tho medual exa.ni a(ion o7so.m ^ 1 T'*' ' ^^^"^''.'"^ ^^^"''''"^ ^^rriee, to when they are siek, Go t^ l^n iter ZZ ' t"' ? ''r?''"' '°'' '^'^ »>^» to go will see magnifieent hospital .eeomiSaUon fbr \hf "' ''f '' f^'^-J^^'"^^' ""^' .^°^ county. We are the oulj nation of ;h:tS ^e ^Le;:^ ' t tr^Sj.:!^;! THE SKAMKN OK THE COUNTRV. u ivV' their w™. V^t en .u ':'.'" »';VP""V"''"'''""'' "''"'""" w'"' "''t"i» W.vntofX,llViV : ','"' '" 'r ', /'•'•H|lnou«l,t" Hospital o.npty for A,,7T.wtN • r ^ "'' «uhscnb..rs ,n I'Mrly lif... m.uI of ,.,.,„-.. lost mv monn/ .n \ i ' •• ' ''"' ""'' '"^''"'l '"^ address tlio iMrotiiirr ,m)il Cnnhdn Pim Tnl^ V ..r *" '?\*'''" ^^■"•■''" ^ ™'"^' '•""'-• '" '"""• II"- V ' "v o n'. . Ortl^™ h . uZ ""PP'; ""t 4>u>l.on lor «.■ ..uunut ahvay. d..p..nd upon w ha wo heir lu. nu=.,.ot {.ommon,>,at UmlsI, a. far as the sl.ilors aro .■unconiod I mS LI I .''^ .I"'"1'1V '""''vsted in thi. cpuslion wonld tak.- up, nnKht JcncUo so Jo Bonn of^Tnch' in . '"Ir""''' ^ '""^ "'^^ opportunity of a.kinjihe pi Su of 'S oonicl 01 ludo in iho IIouso u question with reference to seurvv, and his nnswo.- wa« eertainlv n.o.t renmrkable. lie stated the great regret he h' 1 in si" ," thn seurvj was on a very eon.iderabk> u.crcaso in the Mercaidi Vru-ine in t d ' Me great ease of pvevendon of thi« terrible scourge to seamen I hink it' i« hsgraee to he ..ountry that the President of the Board orXra le ad to eL u-^r^/fVr'' '^ '•^"'^■"'""^ "* t'^"'- The question eo^netoi St tele to Ird it fY ''" r^ "' '^"" ^"gg-tions of C„,!tain Pim would do a great deal I , V i„l 7 r^'™^ n.speet.on of Mores When thinking over this s ibject I was most surprised to find that Her Majesty's Xavy is ensn-od in Xt H r^a e ,"v-"f' ■' " '' '^i-;'P^'^«We line of eondueV \ fincrU I tllal ^n Ue.Maj..sty s ships eonie into port and their beef is not in very good condit on not to destroy it, but to sell it to brokers, who re-sell it to the SreCt sh s f understand, indeed, that they take some of the bad pieees o t^ Jfrbarre buJ «eall knovv when u.ent is in eontaet with bad meat, pxeked up fo^Mionths [t is in very doubttid condition indeed. I understand that this is the ere 0™ fair ovidcnc^. and I believe we shall have a return shortly of the amount ot" thi7men[ I1.US sold and I believe also the nanu. of the prineipal brokei who b«„ i t wd S will be rather usefu information. Then there is another point. I qS a-^ree wi?h my fneud Captain Pim tliat n.edieal in.^peetion of stores ought to be r,'„S«o« bu there eo.nes the more diflkadt question of the medical inspeetion of^ ea men iZtrt.^, 1"',"°' r^T'"^ '' S" H'r of men in sailing ships, 130,000, that''give> 87,000 bands in sadmg ships, including ordinaries, A.B.'s, and foreitmors in steamers there are 71,000 Imnds ; take M per cent, off, that gives you 35,000 sea- men, making altogether 150,000 in round luunbers as the seamen haiids .,no nF.n '" ^^'^^^°^' i ^'""' Y'-' ''"'''' •'''"^'''' ^'^ something definite ; instead of bavin- 202,000 seamen we have only 150,000 bluejackets, as they are oalled in rarliameii^ tary phraseology, and out of those 150,000 men we mav,"l think, takino- our naval experience because we can have nothing better, estimate that about" 50.000 of those are landsmen,' about 50,000 are ordinaries, and possibly 50,000 are able sea- men. jSowlrom a conversation I had with ^fr. ,Shaw Lefevre the other day I was somewhat shaken m an opinion which I think the honourable lecturer 'will remember I conveyed some years ago indirctly to him, that we had then not more than 2o,000 ffi/e 6T«/«ert. which I still maintain is tbe right class to estimate the seamen power of your Flool by, whether merchant or na v .1. The test is tbe number ot able-bodied men you have, because you can make a cab-driver, or anyone else into u l>lue-.]acket to-morrow ; and the term " blue-jackets " is simply an evasion of tlie question. ^\ e know that First Lords when in dillicultics about men enter a number of novices or any trash they can get, and go and tell Parliament they have so many Bailors ; • bine jackets they may l)o, but they are not seamen. In the Alerchant Service we have, say 50,000 able seamen, and I see Lord Eslington, the other day said that out of those at least 15,000 were foreigners, and were prime seamen • I thmk it most naturalit should be so because if they were not in-ime seamen thev would not as it w-ere turn out our own men. Therefore I think it is pretty clear tha m the whole of the British mercantde marine, the first meroantib- marine of the wor d monopo is.ngtbe bulk of the trade of tbe world, the whole number of able-bodied skilled sailors, is only about 35,000 ; that is putting it at the very utmost ive can possibly estimate. Supposing 50,000 able-bodied men are enough 'to carry on the trade ot this country, we know from the Eoyal Xavv that to keep up the number of oO.OOO able seamen, we should require 15,000 boys a vcar and to keep up 10.000 or 11,000 able seamen in the Eoyal XavV it at present mnS 3,000 boys .;- year, tberetore it we require 50,000 men for the Merchant Service we may fairly eoncbule that as the loss in the Xavy is not greater than in the Merchant S..rvice we should therefore want 15,000 boys annually to make good the waste on the 50,000 able seamen. Had the apprentice^ldp system continued in force, and the apprentices been carried as they were in former times, according to tonnage, we should have had, at prese'iit, about 5Lt 000 8pprenticeB,-an extraordinary large uumber.-or if calculated according to 'the •;Landsman" is a rati;ig given to men who are not qualified for that of ordinary. In the Navy the rating has been eha.iged to ordinary seeond-elar THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTRY. 37 5lfoSStMlro"P''Tr"''*^?f^ ■**'"'' "'"^ i"acrew.,vc should require al,out S^ sen i hul I H i.'^r "^ '•' ^'""•^""" ^ "^r" ""*'''"^' '^^"^'" = tl.e shipowners Tin n .-v-.i n \ -^ ^'ovornn.ont draw, from the mercantile marine a reserve. 1 00 o T '.n/l'"' ^ ''""" ^lownyou before.it fakes :M)nO bovs to keep up b . aXuiSr'"'™ '?'"; ^r^' ""'■"*"■"' ^ fl-'l< *-^ven,n.ent slJould .?uoi lov. a V f "^'ir' ■''''' ''■'■ ^'"l^"""ers. to train at kvist from 3,000 fo hfrl c ss re -en;'" T' """' '''i";^-^'-" '" "'""'^v. I have ,u. opinion of vour tie bov e o?. y'"'""" "' ■'?'"■ '•'-'"■''■< i''"^ '^"'l "^ i< were, tieketing irtlen e'S 'f'""^.' ^ i'^^ -'.v praeticnl man, shipowners let hem nneo/tof ol r'7''r"'^'' them give their opinions,-! am sure ninety- rnuhroLe?^ 1^ nurcHl seamen will agree that you eannot train sailor-boj, •Sn 1- , ,'?,,' r;- ""; S'"" '"'^ '''^' ^i'"-'*''»" ""'^ thought it over .s artitieial, so H.e ";S,:;r'^u ^a.i'^pp^^r^hrJLl^l^'S.Jttt:!; Srlll! 2ed to tl /,f;/.7 i "•' '"'T r"^'- ""' .f ^■^•••'"S. '"•'-^ "'Otters of sn.all importauee com- h^kilVw^iS' .^''l''"^ ^°r '^'", ^'^'- ^^' ^"" take eare ansea,a.ul is in every way better iitted for the cS.'o nr1 n '''' ^"' t'l^''l"^'^"«'i^vhell,er he knows how to haul out an nract?ali, ?: L ''''''''^''P' ^'^nnninnec. I do not thmk the Connuission was K Imd edl.v ^.ff r about hanng training sh.ps as Mr. Erassev proposes, tion t e rl nd " ,'"^:^^ ", '■''^.^^'"y ^°'"Plete organisation, and orginisa- to he si in dill T" ,' "^ ""'"■' ' '^^"P'l"^- A* to tl'e plMii of 100 bovs going off The ibw r hot ^ r " ' -r 'V'^'''! •'"*' "^ "'^^^' ^''^^■'-^ t'"^"^ "" shore^altogetf.er. w tl, -' . 1 • -^ '"'"'' °" ,''°""^ '■' ^'"P t'"-' g'-^^-'^t"- i« tl"-' expense. A two-decker hh,k TlS h three-decker (with 700 boys) is more economical per head. I is So Jovf wbiT ''■'" ''"' 'Y '^[■P^'^'"tice system still supplies us, Lt of these servfcruith 3,50(i."''' '"^ '^' ''''" ^"'1'"' ""'""^"- «'' '""^^ ^^ tl"' merchant Mr. Bkassky : 3,500 are supplied every year from that source. mI' r "'"^^'''°n' "'■'' '"'"' "^^''' lt5'^^^ 1" tlie merchant service. Board of TriidcV '' " ^'"'''^"'°^ calculation, and it lias been endorsed by the vou2nu\,^'S;.^'T'-''"'"''T' ^ "'"«^"'" *" ™'*^''^"t I think the number i 000 if.M T *'''""'"^ ^'"1"^ " '" '^^'"•'■^^' ^ ^''""1'' -^av vou do not get siSkim L, • ■ r :Z' '" ' "',>'"'^' "'^' "t"^^'- ''".^•' "'"I J I'a^l tbo honour ^of E t Jm X. w.n"7 f I'T,' V'"^ '"" 1'"'^""' ^""'^^ gentlemen present, because I roxn Tl,; e - 1 '' '"' , P'?^"V' "'•""'"g ^i'M« a-'^' »ot t™hung .ships -X V wc^ CM- 7; ' T'r' y"^""'' '■ r "■■*''^' l""'P"^".-tliere were very few of th.m, tlu,> «eicle,,t toratefinite and distnid purpose, but instead of thai Miev are I. ned into chantabie in.stitutions, ^^l,ich do a'great deal of good no doul tWt s ch boys as hey do trainaiv trained at a very exitusive rate, a.ul, ..ollect ivc v W ^!Z M .t^'l- ""T"'"' "r ^'l'"^'""- ^'' y "^'^•"' '-• -"' ^'" •'- cnding light-made boys to sea. say Jb"10,-lrom £-38 todflOa helul— vou could turn out very good, and well trained boys, boys, the bulk of wliom wouUr he received gladly on board your mcrclumt ships, and who would be from the first able to earn at any rate their food, if not their wage. These are the etvle of lads we ought to turn out ; they sliould be respectable and phvsicallv soimd, able lads. A one should be taken under fifteen, and none kept more than a year, for there Is a great deal of sentiment about sea service, ami if you keep a bov too long in a training si up you send him to sea with all the spunk gone out of liiiii. He is like a bottle of cliimipagnc that has been uncorked too long, there is no sparkle left, anc^ about boT '"'" ^''" ^" ""'' ^''''* ''^ '*^'^''*' ^''^ ^''®* opportunity. These are my % lews J toucl.ed upon the question of a third class reserve. It is a very serious thinj? lor one to diiler with his superiors, and perhaps it is a great piece of impertinonee on my part o do so, but I cannot understand their making it a sine qmt noii, that a boy should have two year,,' training, when one is ample, and offering £25 for wliat they know must cost at least £50. The third class reserve is a mistake. It is a miJtterof no imi^ortanee to the Admiralty or the comitry where tho men for the • reserve come irum. Le! us draw our reserve from tho best merchant seanu'U who present themselves, let us put as il were, into the sea the spawn, ^,id let us draw from sea the fish, but have nothing to do with them in the meantime. Let the men come trom any source, you know that to keep up the number of men in your reserve you owe the Merchant Service so many thousands of boys ; put them, there- fore, into the Merchant Service and draw out yom- full-grown sailor as you require or can get him. I can see no better plan than the one I advocated in this tlieatre myself tor improving the royal seamen and the reserve, wliilst at the same time linking the Merchant Service with the Roval Xaw, wiiich I think, is a most important matter for the country. I cannot understand how we are to expect, m tunc of war, that you are going to utilize your Naval Reserve men, brought up as at present wit li totally diflerent ideas.-men who know nothing whatever of yoursiiips or disciphne, who, as was once said by a gallant Admiral, never have seen anything of a man-of-war but their outside ; how are you going to get these ...cu to work harmoniously with your continuous service inen,'a totally different class ? tlievare pertcci ly distinct classes ; the merchant seamen will be placed under men-of- war s men who have ddfercnt symjiathies and ideas, and if thev work well together to thebe.iehtot the service, it will be a perfect miracle. But the ease would be l\lff'T ' ''* '"'i'' f-'^^? ^'"'^ ^''-^ ^''^ together. I want to see class pre- .ludKe brokm down 1 thnik Mr. Donald Currie told us in the last discussion the Merchant ScvMrv obj.H.-te( to Naval Officers, and another gentleman told us that tl Hie wa. no sympathy between the merchant sail,.,- and the man-of-war's man. ihat I liaye always held to he the case, and I said so in this theatre some time ago. Ztr^ f n r^ '""^\'' cla'-g'-^us feeling is to carry out the svstem I pro- posed before; tliat there shoulil be an iiuerchangeableness between the two fT.m?' •. -I f "°/ ''!''' '? '^"' Ivemendous deterioration of merchant sean 3n. or ticimposib.htyot gettmgthe small number of men we should require; I believe the.e are as good fish m the sea as ever came out of it, though the number may be S-vieP ^,^;f^^^^"<^^^'"-'^ '""-^^'n P'^r rentage of thoroughly able men in the merchant eeivice, and no person who knows anything about seamen will expect th.at every man fine well-trained respectable lads. They are never kept more than a year under trainmg. or entered under 15 years of age. Tliey cost about £25 each to train I an also informed that the '• Chicliesters " and •' Arethusa's " bovs are not kept TnorJ tnanoncycarundcrtrauung, but 1 have seen less of them than the others. THE SEAMEN OP THE COUNTRY. 39 who goes to sea will turn out a good sailor, to bo so, ho must have the natural instincts ilnillf f of f.*«' or, )o make him a goo.l one, and these are onh- developed and brough forward by the work he has to do, but must be innate in the man, and to LXpect that you are gomg to make an ideal seaman, one of those first-, ate fellows we remember, and who is treasured in our minds as our standard sailor, out of every /« fait at their work by eninlov- i wo ri ) '^"^^•^''""■^ir tlv. If I commissioned a .hi,, and there was war to-n orro^^ ^an "^V hlk n!,7 X P " '"■'"■"'"' ' '"•^' '^'^'' ^^'^•" '"-^'"'^'^^l-^- 1*'-*^^^-' ^'"■'^"Sl> tliS Yo m;^, u V. , ?V ,^P^'" '' "" "' ^''^"•'^'"^ "^ "' «''^"1'' ''^■- "»'' ■■'•■' numerous. nowaZed • fh ' K''^;"';ve man to be qualified or . ..ciphued in the time h«l „ ' "*'" "'"^ ^"'^■'•^•^ "•"■^' P"^««l throu-h the Navv vou would liv 7n;7'"" "■','"■' ^^'\'r^'^ 'I'-P'^"'!- Mr. Shaw Lefevro .aid . ^m n h a oTe the ;, ''•''••' ™;!'''''^ "J' T"'^;' ^•' '■''■>■ ^"■^'•"^•^' ' ^^"<' ^^''^'re are you going rL\L 1 r ' '1 "°°* "■'"'• ?" "^'^ °^'^'^" ^""^'^ .^'>" 1"^<^ <"-'^lve months to yoVrbatll,^ 'r t J" •™;'V'-^'^^-' .^|'[ "^--v-a-davs .you will be .ent to sea and light lmu,:?Snr E^^^hav^' '"' ^'"" ^"'"^™^ "^'^'^ '""^" ^^^"^^^ ^^ ^ «^ I mil conclude bv saying 1 think we have every reason to be very cratet'ul to ^ n. ^n ^a :;;i;:n ^ 'Y r^' ^^^^ '^ '"^^^^ -"^''- m^t^rf iiJ'iJiou 3 So r c ^i e n ;V "'^"1'"/"'- ''''''•'■ '^"'^' ^'""^^^ ^'^'^ ^^'^^^.V or "^c Merchant hm,„i;..^P .carefully and so accuratclv a digest of facts such as ho has HI, iiiiu important discussion. SeJii'arv^'oHy'"!''''''''"'^'?'/' ""''"^^'* Y,.h ort on, as 1 hold the position of Hon. I .a be ible ^o l^v?7"°^ Coinnuttee for in,,uiring into ,hc condition of Seamen," I m 4 .a 1 . -^ ?•;' ,vou some figures thai may be of use in tliis discussion- Nn,.'>lrf ''^ff'*'"''^"'^ "'"1 t" '"^^- Committee that so many of h sJrri In?, r'"^V'^'"" "'^""^ ^ '" ^'^^^ "'''■'^'^•♦' because I beUeve the solution cant n ,. ^ question lies ,n a couuection between the Royal iVavy and tlie mer- S n eTneitl.e^r '''^'" ^'^Tgl-l.to -e gentlemen in the position of Mr. Bi', e}, ende. ^^^n. ," 1 "l\'"°' '^'\o''rni trying to do something for his country's good Sid not f tmnk hn ''l '^'"""; ^^' '^'"^" ^"^'''''' "^^^"^ 1"^^' -'^•^ki debase pon hTcrVJ t tl e Tt- ^^^^'•°"!," ^^^^^-^ as is reported, that he looked T, f, V -1 1 > ^'le ' ^'^""^^ ''-'''' '^0 P"- ''^"^ • 0^ <1'^ repli s we ?ece v^J n :?p fccnr;in< il ''^^"^"''™^^"'' -"^ o>% '^ P"- --t-that they were improved I H n , r ■ '^ '"'''\ T Soo^l 'I* '^'-'fore. I think these figures si.eak for bee br H,, • '""■' "^";'?'' "^^^' '1'"* »1'^ °"1>- Government document that has ever Mr ir r I 'o,!'"-^'"'- ^'^' J»g ^".v eontrary opinion, was a report by Mr. Gray and ment w i 'i; ["'" ■".' ^Y''^ "*■ '^'■'"^'^' "^ 1«7=^- "■'"^•^' ""^ presented to vj^. o ;; . y '-'"' ""' ''"■'■ '"'"""' ""'^ '"-^ Sood as before, hut that tin- report oi Iheir deterioration was not quite borne out. Now no town in the eountr v trn. to meet Ml, Crra.v betore he issued his k port, there «as not a sin.de hand held un against the statement that the sailor had deteriorated. Mr fe'ay a W^^^^ m..etu,g in L.verpool in the following September, makes remarks of 1 i so t^ tuseaworthy sadors would lose the best of ships." * * * # " J.iibrs!"' '"''' *'"" *'"^' ^°°'' '"^'' consideration the question of uuseaworthy * * # # •' He believed ami tho.sc gentlemen who were his colleagues believed, that if it ■• ,Se.'' ^' '" ^"''''"' ^°'' "^ '''■^' ''' ^^^"' '^''y ''^''^^^ ^--^^ ^o begin with thi 4-. THE SEAMEN OF THE COUNTltY, 41 i r ■*n L " wnTil! n ^""'J'^'" "" nnnuMise wast,, in ll,o Mcrenutile Marino from the unsea- wortl mess oh .oa.non, an.l if wn. found timf n>on were .hinpcd a", sea men X trom their pliysu-al condition were uttorlj unlit to go to sea "' . * * * # And again, at a meeting of the Assodated Chambers of Commcree iield at Now- case.on-l.vno, on the 21st of September of (lie same vear, Mr Gr;: ays l-fhe question ot loss of hie at sea was not a question of-unseaworthinLsof sliips so rauoh as of unseaworrliiness ofseanien " ' -i-s oi smijs so Tli^ c";Snce olle77"' ,"h ^ tlu.e statements bj Mr. Gray most eontradietorv. years a 1 sav tt I'," *'"'^"""'-f' «» ^^ undoubted. I eannot go baek fifty yeais and sa.v, the seamen then were belter than thev are now I have fo deal cent, ot toreeastk' hands that know tlic ordinary duties of seamen I take Tt t a here are 150,000 Imnds. all told, in the Mereantilo Marin; 1 io of S om ar^ 3rtl";-are ln'[l"™*'"", 1'"^' ^•--\'^Pl-"t-- "- genVrailv not in tl! ore! S of the e fLl * " /'7'"^7 '^""I'lv "-^th groun-.,p hands. Xow, if only 25 per ■iu,uuu A.JJ. s m the Mercantile Marnie of this country'. We have 19 000 forcifrnp^.: son" .Sftlesr "TM ^'•■"''^ """™^' "^' ^''--^ 'a few blacks ZaLrf'i'^ some ot the Suez Canal steamers, and a larger number of them in the I'eninsuh.r and Oriental boats-ubout 5,000. I will mention how tins h ^av en Tl Co n pany s S'uperintendent stated at a nuvting in London last weX 1 at i c^^Z obliged, fmm the insubordination of the n-en. to abolish all 1 1, vl i ' f ■ .casVle iumb;i-^'lV'^''r',!''"w"''/'' '"r"'"" '■''"^'^ ^^"-"- ^ ^'- -^ i^iiud r Xr wbi^ . f ,: • ^^ " ''^V" '''^"' '•^'"'^'"""g "early 15,000 Swedes, Danes, and otiiei AAhite foreigners, ni our Mercantile Marine, and, as Mr. Cori'v savs any shin- Tuaid'a ire'-T'f" ;™''l' '^fl'^lig'^t-^ '- '-- '- ^^1"1- -th tlLn.- aKS thJ^r^^^^u^'^'l' '-'' ''"' ^T ""''''V'^' g'^''tlemen in the House of Commons, «i'e^ 'and be o f /.'"''l"''^ '" ^ f ^•■'""^ *""'?, '^^ ^ ''^^ *''ippi"^' office, and at the same SyouTL ^"''^^'g"ers are the best men m our forecast ies-any shipmaster will Captuin AV'iisox : Are those foreigners jjlus the lO.UUO'-' Mr. WiLLrAMSo.v : \o; of the 10,000 A.B.'s. about 15,000 are forelLmers • that gives you 2o,000 good English A.B.'s in the Mercaiitile Mar ne ot" tS eountr Out o the>e al,out 11,000 belong to the first-class Roval Naval Keserves Zth wha the Na^, has to fall back upon in an emergency. Now I won da4 Naval gentenienJiow n.any of those will they get in the ill-st five or si.^ o ths of «ar .. It woidd not be 3,000 or 4,000 at the outside. Mr. Ih-assev. in 1 peecl has suggested one or two exeelh-nt measures for improving the condition o n stcn' n.e whole subjee divides itself info two luirls, fi,4t, the ren.edial dealin-^ wi li he existing .state ot hmgs ; and second, the question of supplies. In tl le remec^^al mrt LSbSl^r'M'^M ''^'^''^y'l'^^ " "-I'-l-'T benllit fund i^r^Z^iSl n ,oT i i n ^ fy 'V"^'" '" '•' ''''«^' """'''''^" ''^ i-e^Peeuible sailors in Liver- pool last December, and without one dissentient, they agreed to this He nut fmT iu';^u;VY''r^■Tr^■"' "■"^'^' '"T^^- "l'*^" them a con.pulsorv ixmsS^ tuml,-tliev nil ^t do it of their own accord ; and after h.> had reasoned "the Ihinir out in a most able manner, they all agrcMl to it : and I believe if Mr. B I'tv wei'e o thHl. 'r '^;: :•■•.;''' '';r^'"'''"^^ wouldeqnaUy agree with the Liverpool maf on Is A B ;.ti J ; ' '"^p'f^"""'' 'T"""'-^.' '■''- ^l^"t l"^i"'-e l^eing allowed to rate Vn„ fi ■'/ A ?, -' '"^ "^ ''?"'" ^'-''''' ^"'"' y''"'-^ "^' «^''i ^I'ould be produced lou find iHany A.B. s tell you, that they wish to leave the sea, because tl ev get no protecion at all. Ihey do not like to be in the forecastles with so inanv ii^ competent men ; they say, the duties of the ship are thrown upon a few, while the others do not do the work, and yet all get the same pay. I may sat that all the v pe cf^ able seanien are unanimously in favour of this prot ection. 1 do" not believe it would punish the shipowners ,n any ;yay, the constitution of the forecastles would be im- pioved. Ihc pay all round 1 do not believe would be greater than if is now but you would really improve the condition of the better men, you would S 4ii HOW BEST TO IMI'KOVE AND KlCEl' UP their^statu. a.ul tUoy ,vould occup.v a portion wl.ieh ,lu,r do not, occupj at WM^nll",""' "t'"'"'" """•■'' »'.v frioml Mr. Co.tv a.,.1 1 ...i.st diller ou Ihis ,,oint fhe ii i.;Z. ?s "]"'"!:, "' ^''il'--"-'-" i" I-'verpool the other day t wE o owner knows perfecllv well if fl.".,.. «•.. ■ .,"0"°"-'-' ' ^"; luicigu trade. Any ship- sliipcouldbecm.nl, i,.f7w t'"-!'-' ^»a^ i '•ompulsory Jaw lo carry apprentices, 10 O fl.Mt K. T ,';'"■"■ '"^"''^' "'='" ioui- apprentices to everv 1 000 tons owners .-.v, ,, m^I 1 ' "'' "1" '"^ ""'''' ■•'PPi-^'>H"-'esmp compulsory; few sliip- done by a rebate;, -t " ^"""-'^ boon, and I would suggest that niigl.t be 8 a veiv 1.,, < I ''"1""''^'''* carrying a],prcntices out of tl^^light dues This S}S^^:;;l:^^;sfi9^^'■^^^ i ^rs^i. .^'^'^^.:!;: ,^--- - ^^^ h n-^ ~^^ =.i^Ss or r Si;^;r^=-- they .hould undergo prelimin irv r.^;,,; 1 ^'"f ''''^' '1"''^"> ' '^"'^ ^'^ '^'^ *^ first to lose the'e men nUe^^^^^^^^^ T' '"".''''"'"' "•* ^^'lip^^vners are the up to thea'qufr ^n s S th? i^^^^^ the Government is to tr.m ten training .]nm with 3fS in i 7 '? ' " tirst-class reserve, it woidd take g -.up, vMth 3vxj in each to train up to in thu'teeu or fourteen years, i i tHE 8KAMEN OF THE COLWTltl'. [^^ oomSuo?;1n?,l!r^'r-l ,?"^«';|^^''»^- i^ tliis, that the training .hould only be in connection n ith tlio Eojal ^aval Reserve, and tliat the cost of tlie tralnin" shonM be borne by the Navy E.timates-JEIOO.OOO a year at the very outS m>d stu h aStle Z ,ed if ^■P'"''l'"' °* tl'^.'"^'^^>^»i« '-•1"«^ to bo kept then- ote yenJ Thov wn, 1 • "■'\'' ';"g «'"P^ "19 ordinary seamen, and then, after three vear« s^ s\ beiii:^. St SrSdy^i: •: £!• a=l;;eS'ir iXd^o^: anything m he way ot training seamen for the Mercantile Marine. intd rio'^r-''''' \-V' ^•'"''•■^'"" "•^' ^^""^ " "■'■<"- '"-u.faet .red arliele, and, hins but '.Hf , 1 '" • '7' '' ^\^'^''l"'^-^'^^ tl'"t we should have not shore-go i a 8 rfL i iev trri^'l "^'" ^* " f" ''"-"' *'^"*= *'^'-^ ^Vav.V wants wluit'S roing boy after a V r's V ""• ^■^''•.^ '"'•S'V"'^"^'''-'' "^ present, a place for those idoSottlink ••"r.^^^T *^^ T'"''' "' tliey can learn in training ships, ve r« n rl T i*^ 1 ' /"", "'''"'^^ ^" ^"^''^' ^I't-m into training slii,,s at tburteon b do V ?hat a.V''^ ' ^'■'■'";l -^^ ''''\ "'^"-"i -"i^'^l'ip^H-" "ere eonstln v Zlred 01 r n t^t g^^; to • hrwl '" ^"-'f'^'' ^""'-•'^'"' "' instrnctioi, but „e can give .„L . 1 , , X- °^ who comes from his parents or from the streets whi,11 never be taught 111 the forecastles of the Me cantile Marine but It can and will be taught n the ^'avv Those m,.,. «ill ,„ ff . \ -'iannt, gr-;; ,s;^-ii,- ---'s t:^7J^?^r tzJsv^ In dnv! ..""w '"'^'T 'T^'l °^' '''""""S *'"!''• '^"f thev must be under proS gi dance. We must not confuse training ships which train apprentices for captS and Officers of merchant ships with those that simply provide .-unen but thS lm2 been d.ne to a considerable exlent. We must not\4 her confuse th^ fad of the appren iceship system being an eventual advantu,,. to the Mem ntile Marine \^^^^ .e act t at no owner can aiford to carry his goods about the Sd u 1 s he ca^ do t at an equal price with any other man. If you burden him with any expense oS t?.r5l3-!.''"' 'r T " ''' T ^"^ ''-''^ ''y "'^■■'^1^ '-^ '^ prov}nt:?S m comptting \Mtli others on tair terms, and vou encourage by that verv ncf (lie P,.n, jrce ot other nat.ons to supplant your own. You ar. ,1o7t4 1 ng a'lar'e iS anne^r\°" r;™.!" 'V'"^'" ^^^'^-aiitile Marine for other eountrie^ ; they 51^^' tntTth^ll 7 i "r"' '■"" '^'^ '''^y"'S "" ^^'^''^ "^'^" «"'l even getting tliem aZJ f '''^- ^"^ ^T ™""^*^ '''^y «" tl'cm; notobly vou cannot rely on German sailors who are under the same regulations as the rest of their "0 mt^Le toi maritime servico instead of military service, and you would fail, purtkularlv h that sudden mannmg of a fleet which' could alone condnee to aiV usI-Ad resl" 44 HOW BEST TU IMl'KOVK AND KEEP VV 1: vL h,ui" "iK "";;\i'^'7 -^ /■"!<., bmyouca.n.ot get U.cn. back at once Inrlv nC 'I'l ."""i "'" 'T •'^■'••"''■''. i» ">',utl>sa,.,luotinyear.. Trniu thorn Li Pu m.r ir '"^•'""' '*"" "^ ♦'''V™">"» !' Yoi. will alway. f.r.d l.in. when nonov r ■ r^n *="? '"•'" '""".«'' °^ *''"' P'""^l"'''^ »'■ P"««i'>i!itv of pri«.. ^^sil;iii.v V''"'' '•'' .^ "'■'"■", T;"''' '" ^^■''''•"' ""^ "■"" «™"mn cleii,ht. that e, Iv . i i;''V''''r,l'" ';'■ ^'■""'/^'"^^•'••^ "t" I'i-^ ""-n rhoo.hu, whieh exiHte, for- k w^ ■ " '" H ::?• ""' "'n "" '""•■'' " "'■■•'^''■' ^'''P »" -'•i'-l' 1'- "-"'«'• to , . " '^' 1 ."; '"■'■'■'■ ^ '"' '"■'■•'''"'' "^■^' '••" ''"^-^ '"'t "ll"^v t he Ullieers U,c me . ami (urn thoiu adnti n. n.an.y mstaueos, where vou ouRht to k.-ei. them on wh o'ha^e nr.f''r:l ^'"n''^ i tlH' Me,van,ile Marine" have ^.ceee.le.l ih:.'o Ih J ovei i,uce. It i. „ot eheap to have had inei,. It is not possible fo elevate any one omlnZ. i f n" '""""■' "'"!■"■ ^'•"" "'•""'^'"' "'■ '""' "''^"- ^-" -'^""-'t ' " "^ opi. rcnliee into he propel- ...HdduH. ,n whirl, you wi.h hhn to exist, of uiorality abed.enee, and chse.phne ,f you keep hin> .luring hi. vouth largely in eonS S' ao.e who know neither the one nor the other. The Navy is the place for proper rau.n.g, and I an. quite .nre the Mercantile Marine wHl bo clelightcd t , So om n. such n>en as we should, nnder tl,ese conditions, send to them^ We have o unteach so mucn to the mercantile seaman at present when he con.es to us that it to fach nicn all that they are required to do on board m.-n-oi-war, and it is not to th'.Tl" >V T V"'' "'"'"1 "•"•'• " '"-"'•-"^ ' l-< " nun ;ould be de S-ed 01 those habits which arc most objectionable in that situation oflir.. : still le'1'"''^'"" "^^ I"-' 1^'"^^-^ I'i'". 'i>"l the way to make tli'.inielyoieaci other is to tram them carcfullv togetlicr in a body We shall vnv n f ^ ' I- ^ ■''" ""^ ''"^"""'^ '^ "^ " I'^i'-'l^l'il' or objectic liable in anv vay, that the a],prent„-eship system shoul.l be again enlorced, even if tliere are to trir:"; s ^:' nf t"" •"• < ''' "^ ^'^^■"^ '''•"'"^^^'•- " '-•«'■ pvoponi-m j:i; •u.S.es '.'"';,"''''"'"''■',' '^ '' '"' •"^^^•'^--^'i'T tliat there should bo ■ippitn ices to Meam-work as that there should be others in saili,,.. vessels, and I Kn'i^ntile'M '" ''""" ' "",' "'^^ ^^'''""^ '^'''''^ '"'« '''^- ^••^^•■^■' "'"1 thence into Ui Meican lie Marine can be kept np so as to tulfil tlie most desirable obiect of com- supeiior, but trom tiie superior to tiie inferior,-i,iterior, that is to sav, in habits of Oillclis'flV < ' "" r-M" "•'{''"!- ' '^" ''■•' ''^'^''"'''-^ ^^^ ^"''■-•^^. i'' -° had young Oihccrs ht to put by the side of our sub-lieutenants, to send on board men-of-war . UM ^ short tunc as the ^aval Ollicer. Ijut we have to deal with a do e service, n 1 ch a man must serve constantly to be etlieient, and you would scarcely temp o 1 e tr^7 thirty or lorty, after long experience in^lie Mei-eantile Mariii to take tlicir place beside sub-licutenaiits or lieutenants in a man-of-war. I think esc observiUions will show that my chief object is to make a proper iunction c^' Mercantile Marine, by inanuiacturing the article and tluni passing it on. "l have also ob.served in a previous pamphlet of mine, the means by which the ine lo Sln^l/ vr',:'':"'H'" ''"^' «— ■^'->' ^^^ vctained b/one evei-UmglEing cl am. II you gne to the seaman a very small ice per annum, accruing to him only when he comes back to the Navy, he will come back to the Navy wiicnc^'yer yo 3 mn It you give to Mercantile Otllcers the same training in the Navy as he y ' e h , n! Tl? •"''■'^'/•^V '"^! - ^" ^'i.V, training i„ youth fr.nn fourteen to sixteen, and ^ f] uT^e s n t"? ^^r,fl^'7''»^'i^ ^^i'^-i"*'. 1 think the Mercantile Marino would not una reason to regret the chan<'e. Admiral Sir William Kimi Hall : Captain Wilson having alluded to ti-aimng ships no ,n the service in disparaging terms. 1. havimf b;.;; on the Luichcstcr and " Ai-etliusa ' Coniniitteo for the last ten years, believe that none THE SRAMRN OF TIIF. COUNTIir. 45 ^c£eS"'^;^*^te;5.^;''-'.;:?';v^'^ '.otto.. ^1,0. ,,1,.. h. ...... do.pi.eci been, or are more oSlcnt .'o. . 'T"' ^f'^'' -^f'"'«t,v'. lmi„infr «l,ip. Imvo but I will give one p o.'./'. ,s ,',,", ''::.?: ••''''■' '•"""^•^' "'" «"" '''•iH- '■-•'ainly ; Mavor, at the Free/na.o .' 1 M ' "''7' '"' l''-"";^ "•''•'• Riven by the l.ml sailor wa,s present w o Im b n l^ ,. ' ..'''''""'l '"" \'"'^" -^'''P"' '^ «"" .v<'""« roturnod f^m his iir.t ^ Jo ^ iL .7; ', "',' '""'"'' "'"; ('''i^'l""«ler,- and had very good for ability u.kSv mo, f ' '"' *''''" '''^''^ "" "^'-Hnary .ennum ; for the want of boys to Ro J tea J', T" "'l' '''''''''^ "^^ ^'''- ^ '""""'• ^^ you find a pond,i pool'of "at n^i ' ^rnllrt^S'TlV" "V" "^''"'%, ^^'''"•''^-• scHdlingabontinatuboronai lank J 1./ r «™»t'',V. .V'>" "ill find bo,9 and stmt about iu a cocie 1 mt' ml w . , '" iT'n "'"^' "" ""'" '^ ^'^ ''^■•'"'''•«. love of it. 1 w-a« quit'^prep a , to T o tTo M.^l' •'V:.""^*" ?^ I" "^'^ ^■°'' '^'^ into the Xavy. And l.olv L u seaL Si, 1 .n,;' ''''^vV'"M'''^'^ ^ ''"^'^ ""^ f^'" Ills edueation by seullintr and nuUin.r „. ^ , • ^^ '^ ' ^'"' '"'■>' '•'>i>i"iPi)<>od wav out. When wc vere 1 ' '1'" ''"""^' '" *■"••' l''«^ ''"val on tl.eir «tood on the Sek? e-CJ'Shnr;' on-"'":'' -'^--' ««'-- ^.at over .vn interest in those bov.^uy so lu f L , 7 '"T"'^'-' ^''" ^"'''''^ '"''k those days allowed an O Ileer if 1 f o , I r '^."Tf V"'"'^'"' "'" "'"• -'''P^^ i" was anxious to go to sea to hrin ' him tl . ,"' "'Ar''''' '•"'^' "' *'"' ''"""t'-^ «1'^> deal too nuu.h o"' th.. p nil ti ehe in 1 bo ''f' '' ''';"""" ''' '''^'''' '^ '^ "^^ the penny steamer in Jn ei a 1 Vn , 1 \ ''"»""? '^"l'*" ^''^ ""■^' '""" ^"k^" willice thousands of bo , ,^^^^^^ "" ^",'"^"" ]^''/^' *« Westnunsler, and ho sea? "they wo.dd go at' onee S / e > -^ ' "f/ •'""' *">' '" ^^''" >'^" g« f"> crammedup witlunqi Iti^^ lu^r her,.; tV™'-' l". ^'" '? *'''""'"S ^'''P^ «« '^^ ask Captain' Wilson this t on w .et e l,o 1,^""" . ''"' '' "•"^'''^" "' ^™- ^ ^'"1 oue of the ships in a very lise -o If Kl "-^'r ^'''''' endeavoured to get out of was birched be ^^ oi ;,';!'' '''"'"'^"^ In the " Chichester " a bo v who good boy ever si^^^e The ,, Ian we idC'i'T^ '° ^' " ^"'"^ ^'''^' "^"'^ '>"^^ b'^^" ^ kno.' tl.-e first four rule of' mSl met^ m ' "''r' "'' examination, let the bovs that, let them harn ea.m "id In' ^^T ""''""\^' T'^ "^ ^»°" '^^ ^''^^^^ -'" ''l« when in commando' the ' o S IchLid^ • ""S'''"''^"^^ "1^ "^.^^ ""^ Admiralty, of GOO boys. It was not ha 'u ,t ,' 1 '"J*^/''' .'^ 1'^"" ^'^'' *''^' i"^f»eti<;^, of arithmetie, readi,. a Vd writt ,l Zfl ^7] t^' ^'"^'»'-^'''« f-^^^' «>--^l rules could, and ^omebody^'ls von i mo he ilf ' '° ^ "'* "'"^ °*' '^'^'' "^ '1">^''^ "^ ^ in that ship was bin-d t u to be e. .'l H >?? ^"°" " l'^«°^- ^ Ii"le bov not learn h s geogiii^ f I said " D v In, •^' ""'"^ '' -^'"^ ^"^'^y- "'«* ''« ^^'^^'d said, " Sir, I etn,c? £ L to b ' a ^aui iT ' '''^'''\?' "'f '^^' ^'^^^' ' " 11° mother ; I can read niv Ed, o H,.,f f V .• ^^ ""^ ^''^^^"' ' ^ «»" ^^"tf to mv school ; 'l agree I w tKhfSr be i..' H '"" '''"''"V^ ^ ^^'^'^ ^"" °"t -^^ t^I youdoaway^vithtl se ml^eaehe^^^^^^^^^W^^^ "o d.fncnlty in getting boys if Wluitwas the finest fr e ae , .t. ■ ^To ^2 ""^"^e-^. ^ve had novices. >.'hat was his cr V m n; eo™.l o '.^^ Sir Edward Pellew-s. And novices in the '< Royar tdefSe "-l^^^^^^^^^ donees, Cormsh miuers ; and we had came to be sailors, and J^^^cva]^^ZZ^^'°r'''''^ tV° ^' *°, '''' ^'"^ netn;:r^ti^-i:?d^slrw:H'r^^^ i"stt::k ^±; rsSt^S France they are all so her. h, t 1 ' ' "° ' " ''"" ^'''^>' '^^•^- "^^l ^'^d seamen ! In have to do is let 1dm t a s,iIo. ""''' '''" ^""*^ '"^ ''" '^ ^^^i"^-' "^"^ "" vou haS'^:n.S;r^.;iS;l; Sh^^'l^-Sh'"? -i^^^'^- ^r ' ^-- -'^i- ^ didsayw-asthesLipswhicLre lent for nrivie ^^ .°'' ^ ^'•^tl'"^^." but what 1 priated to that work, for we find that fin, . ".""""g ^^'"'e not wholly appro- ought to train 500. I did Lf l-al of b , "' r^^ *™'""^ '" ^''^^-"^'^ ^^^'^ Mr. Bbassby • I ve^tt hat^m. ? ; "^ ,"' '^"^ ''"•^■^ themselves. legieL that my duties m another place require me to leave 46 HOW BEST TO IMPKOVE AND KEEP UP :! ! ( this room, and, therefore, make it neee^Hn-v that I should, without delav make L ""sir'T L hw^'T '' *'" "'^^''V'l.'T^ "^''•'' '-<• '-- -Idressed totS meet" ing^ Sir JInMnK« I nm very gratetul (o the various speakerB for the favour- able terms ,„ vvhieh they have been pleased to refer to myVaper. I may h es Iv mport.nl 1 may be, h eertM.Mly m.t partieulnrlv attraoive. I rel.T to the Blue l^ook htora ure under whi..h the shelves of ,uy library have long ., mnJi Ihe volumes of rarlmmentary literal ure upon maritiine subjeets during fho S quarter of a .rutury. are souu.thin. ,,uite anuu.ing. T hope that now the nubl o a teut.on ,s at lust nve.ted upon this great question of the safety of 1 i e a se and the eon.UtiOM ot our .nantnue population, 8omo good fruit will be gathered from the abumlaut litc.arv seed wlu..h has been sown in previous year. bvS-arliame t We luivo ueard deplorabe stalen.euts with reference to tlu. .lefieienev and the ineffl! eieney o sean.en, and we are all nu-t together here to nuxl ""^l ^ ^"V, unless Ik' hip owner offers o hoso whom he employs, terms nn.l oculitions Wlii-ii will eommfo tn-ourably wih the terms and eonditions oliered by other employers to the same eh. B of men. he eannot expect to obtain their services. Indeed, unless the terms othei svstcm ol trannng, with a view to produce the men that are required Having trained men for the sea, and made them handy men for alniLt any Xno e on shore the shipowner must necessarily lose the services of the n e.^t hrpK in I hand, ^^e have heard to-day of 400 trained seanien being empoyed.n the S that r:.," u''l""'^ ''' i"^""" '■'"' '^'''' '' ^'' "»""»! '°- of^eim^n, from the tact tbat men seek shore employment in preference to the sea. Then you have another competitor m this matter, I mean shipowners of the Un ted S ate! T do a te H°w '"n "" "':?": rr^'"'" "* ""'^ ^'''^"'''^"' '-'^ ^ ^^''^i'^^e, until a ry re ent h^e.itwa the case li-,l the wages in American shij.s were somewhat higlL- than ose m l^nghsh ships, an, as a eonsequenee, the American Mereh n Suyv as largely manned by men who had left the British Service to sail under tie Am^iean clmnt is 1 7 1 ," • '' ""'?' '''" '""^•'■^ "'••^ »^^*^q'"^^^' il '* i<"^> t« expect our mer chant yessels shall be properly manned. The question of wages I need not refer to y greater lergtl,,,t being especially a question with which ''the shipmvner 1 a to deal. Ihe other point to which I .l.ould like to refer is the questioVortranLl woik Wo are all ngreci that the Government cannot interfere simply to enable lm,> rT'^Vw""'.-'"'""''""^'^'"^!"'*'-^""^- '^^''' "''tio" of the n1 y must be isTolHn'l \'"'"* 'f''''"'y '" ""•• '"^^•'•1 •''-q-'i'-enumts, and having regniS o the UieX 1""''°''"'?^' '^^■•''"^>"^»^"ni^^i">tresen-e of well-traired sniinS o n „« n^ ' /, % K '""-' ?^ *''? T''^''''y ''*' ^ ^'•'^"^ "«^''^1 ^var; the question is whether^ mig..t not be a national duty, which devolves upon our statesmen to eonrider how tlSNL^atr're"' ma.v combine with the prilate shipowners in ordTto^rovS tins ^aval Keserve. At the present time I believe tie Naval Eeserve is un to tbe s rength laid down by tlie Admiralty Begulations, but the strength reqn ml under n enrrlT/t1 a;""^'-' ^r-^''--^"'-'^-^ '^ ^•"'-i^ln-ab ly Ic'ss ,l,an th^s S J recom tTe ASi.Sd tv'lnv "'/'"^ Commission of 1859; and it is a debateable poin wheth r the AdnmaU> have been we 1 advised u. reducing the strength of the Naval Reserve tl..r.w„.,l«U»hcdm«i.n gm,!, p„« a tUorouglily olllriH.t tr,ini„g ,ei.rt, »." TiiK SRvMi:\ OF TFrr, roiTNTiJv. 47 u;;:;^h',';;:!'i:;'^,.?t,;ri.;^^ ••- »>- ^""0^0,1 .,^. . «■.« n,v told .Imt llu.v a ™ o^ • ^^^ '" ' '^'''f '"""f'' '^"'l I'lvmonth. Wl„.„ by the Mn,nm,,MV,„„;i: , '^r 'no ;; , I 'r^^'^^ ot tn.Mnnj^ v.hs.Ih proposal ownov, or to boiiovolnit .utsoiis ,1 „ '"'. oppoi-funity to tlio ship. ti.0.0 ship. ,0 bo tni; .in srA;;;;!^: t r:;'":^d o'L 'S'l';:,.?' "'^•" '« iVsoiM-crs. r tliink it vc.illy would ho n voi-V ',1 .1 ' .. ' ^"' *'■'"" P'""""'" 1.0 proyi,l,Hl ,„ various port ^^r ^l ;o\i L^ « -"s.; yo.sol, shoul.l ;:s^;: ;:• - •" "-" ' — ^^^^^^^^:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ '•<'..'>t ti.oro u,i,ht c;c:;;;iZ h"; s^: t:'s.:T:T''i ''" ^"^'^'- ^" of youths who nro now j^oiug to son ( u- i t .] nt s.' '' ". with profound iiilfrost. I cun only Iiopo Ihiil I mny be able in another pliicc to turn to nrcount what I have li'iirncd from thi« dii.fus»iou, p; ! HAHRISON ANt) 80N8, PRINTERI IN OBDINART TO HER MAJESTY, ST. MABTIN's LANK, ;