IMAGE EVALUATION 
 TEST TARGET (MT-3) 
 
 ^ 
 ^ 
 
 
 'i'..< 
 
 V. 
 
 ^ 
 
 '^ 
 
 i/.x 
 
 
 1.0 :si 
 
 I.I 
 
 1.25 
 
 28 
 
 6' 
 
 1-4 IIIIII.6 
 
 J 3.2 
 
 M 
 
 'c^l 
 
 (i^l 
 
 7 
 
 ;>/ ^> 
 
 
 /^ 
 
 Photographic 
 
 Sciences 
 Corporation 
 
 \ 
 
 ■^ 
 
 o 
 
 iV 
 
 
 ^ 
 
 23 WEST MAIN STREET 
 
 WEBSTER, NY. 14580 
 
 (716) 872-4503 
 
 
 

 rA 
 
 CIHM/ICMH 
 
 Microfiche 
 
 Series. 
 
 CIHM/ICMH 
 Collection de 
 microfiches. 
 
 Canadian Institute for Historical Microreproductions / Institut Canadian de microreproductions historiques 
 
 
 
Technical and Bibliographic Notes/Notes techniques et bibliographiques 
 
 The 
 to tt 
 
 The Institute has attempted to obtain the best 
 original copy available for filming. Features of this 
 copy which may be bibliographically unique, 
 which may alter any of the images in the 
 reproduction, or which may significantly change 
 the usual method of filming, are checked below. 
 
 7 
 
 □ 
 D 
 D 
 □ 
 D 
 D 
 D 
 
 D 
 
 n 
 
 Coloured covers/ 
 Couverture de couleur 
 
 Covers damaged/ 
 Couverture endommagee 
 
 Covers restored and/or laminated/ 
 Couverture restaur^e et/ou pelticulde 
 
 Cover title missing/ 
 
 Le titre de couverture manque 
 
 Coloured maps/ 
 
 Cartes g^ographiques en couleur 
 
 Coloured ink (i.e. other than blue or black)/ 
 Encre de couleur (i.e. autre que bleue ou noire) 
 
 Coloured plates and/or illustrations/ 
 Planches et/ou illustrations en couleur 
 
 Bound with other material/ 
 Relie avec d'autres documents 
 
 Tight binding may cause shadows or distortion 
 along interior margin/ 
 
 La reliure serree peut causer de I'ombre ou de la 
 distortion le long de la marge intdrieure 
 
 Blank leaves added during restoration may 
 appear within the text. Whenever possible, these 
 have been omitted from filming/ 
 II se peut que certaines pages blanches ajout^es 
 lors d'une restauration apparaissent dans le texte, 
 mais, lorsque cela dtait possible, ces pages n'ont 
 pas 6t6 film^es. 
 
 Additional comments:/ 
 Commentaires suppl^.Tientaires; 
 
 L'Institut a microfilm^ le meilleur exemplaire 
 qu'il lui a 6t6 possible de se procurer. Les details 
 de cet exemplaire qui sont peut-dtre uniques du 
 pouit de vue bibliographique, qui peuvent modifier 
 une image reproduite, ou qui peuvent exiger une 
 modification dans la m^thode normale de filmage 
 sont indiquis ci-dessous. 
 
 □ Coloured pages/ 
 Pages de couleur 
 
 □ Pages damaged/ 
 Pages endommag6es 
 
 I ~V Pages restored and/or laminated/ 
 I ^ Pages restaur6es et/ou pelliculdes 
 
 PyJ Pages discoloured, stained or foxed/ 
 
 The 
 post 
 of t» 
 film 
 
 Orig 
 
 begi 
 
 the 
 
 sion 
 
 othe 
 
 first 
 
 sion, 
 
 or ill 
 
 D 
 D 
 
 Pages d6color6es, tachet^es ou piqui^es 
 
 Pages detached/ 
 Pages d6tach6es 
 
 Showthrough/ 
 Transparence 
 
 Quality of prir 
 
 Quality indgale de I'impression 
 
 Includes supplementary materii 
 Comprend du materiel supplementaire 
 
 I I Pages detached/ 
 
 r~~1 Showthrough/ 
 
 I I Quality of print varies/ 
 
 I I Includes supplementary material/ 
 
 The 
 shall 
 TINl 
 whic 
 
 Mapi 
 diffe 
 entir 
 begir 
 right 
 requi 
 meth 
 
 Only edition available/ 
 Seule Edition disponible 
 
 Pages wholly or partially obscured by errata 
 slips, tissues, etc., have been refilmed to 
 ensure the best possible image/ 
 Les pages totalement ou partiellement 
 obscurcies par un feuillet d'errata, une pelure, 
 etc., ont 6t6 filmdes i nouveau de fapon d 
 obtenir la meilleure image possible. 
 
 This item is filmed at the reduction ratio checked below/ 
 
 Ce document est filmd au taux de reduction indiqud ci-dessous. 
 
 10X 14X 18X 22X 
 
 26X 
 
 30X 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 J 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 12X 
 
 16X 
 
 20X 
 
 24X 
 
 28X 
 
 32X 
 
The copy filmed here has been reproduced thanks 
 to the generosity of: 
 
 Library of the Public 
 Archives of Canada 
 
 The images appearing here are the best quality 
 possible considering the condition and legibility 
 of the original copy and in keeping with the 
 filming contract specifications. 
 
 Original copies in printed paper covers are filmed 
 beginning with the front cover and ending on 
 the last page with a printed or illustrated impres- 
 sion, or the back cover when appropriate. All 
 other original copies are filmed beginning on the 
 first page with a printed or illustrated impres- 
 sion, and ending on the last page with a printed 
 or illustrated impression. 
 
 The last recorded frame on each microfiche 
 shall contain the symbol — •» (meaning "CON- 
 TINUED "), or the symbol V (meaning "END"), 
 whichever applies. 
 
 Maps, plates, charts, etc., may be filmed at 
 different reduction ratios. Those too large to be 
 entirely included in one exposure are filmed 
 beginning in the upper left hand corner, left to 
 right and top to bottom, as many frames as 
 required. The following diagrams illustrate the 
 method: 
 
 L'exemplaire film6 fut reproduit grAce A la 
 g6n6rosit6 de: 
 
 La bibliothdque des Archives 
 publiques du Canada 
 
 Les images suivantes ont 6t6 reproduites avec le 
 plus grand soin, compte tenu de la condition et 
 de la nettetd de l'exemplaire filmd, et er. 
 conformity avec les conditions du contrat de 
 filmage. 
 
 Les exemplaires originaux dont la couverture en 
 papier est imprim6e sont filmAs en commen^ant 
 par le premier plat et en terminant soit par la 
 dernidre page qui comporte une empreinte 
 d'impression ou d'illustration, soit par le second 
 plat, salon le cas. Tous les autres exemplaires 
 originaux sont fiim^s en commen^ant par la 
 premidre page qui comporte una empreinte 
 d'impression ou d'illustration et en terminant par 
 la dernidre page qui comporte une telle 
 empreinte. 
 
 Un des symboles suivants apparaitra sur la 
 dernidre image de cheque microfiche, selon le 
 cas: le symbols —^ signifie "A SUIVRE ", le 
 symbols V signifie "FIN". 
 
 Les cartes, planches, tableaux, etc., peuvent dtre 
 film6s d des taux de reduction diffdrents. 
 Lorsque le document est trop grand pour dtre 
 reproduit en un seul cliche, il est fiimd A partir 
 de Tangle supdrieur gauche, de gauche A droits, 
 et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre 
 d'images nAcessaire. Les diagrammes suivants 
 illustrent la mAthode. 
 
 1 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 32X 
 
 1 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 5 
 
 6 
 
i •' 
 
 Hoi^ 
 
 
'n- 
 
 ^i' 
 
 j 
 
 '•-•■*,: 
 
 S P iL E O LzL jIj S 
 
 OF 
 
 Hon. Messrs. BERNIER AND SCOTT 
 
 ON TnF 
 
 
 ITftBi iND. i.-W. 
 
 i-.'r 
 
 •V»- 
 
 t^^. 
 
 OTTAWA, APRII. 3rd AND 4th, 1894 
 
 ,1 
 
 
 ^ ' i\ 
 
 
 4^ J- 
 
 '*«,* ; 
 
 t-j *^ |p 
 
 B^-^, 
 
 .P 
 
 Z^t. '^m-'",- 
 
 'i/i}ji 
 
 4' 
 
 ^1 :■ 
 
 V 
 
 -X-s 
 
%*',/>' 
 
 
THE 
 
 SENATE DEBATES 
 
 FOURTH SESSION-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT 
 
 SPEECH OF HON. T. A. BEIINIER 
 
 (IN TIIK 
 
 lanitok and Irtli-west School Questions 
 
 OTTAWA. APinL ;?ni., ls<j| 
 
 Hon. Mr. BKRXrKK niovod • 
 
 'I'liiU ail lniinl)k' .\<lilies.s lio prcsi'iitfil to Ifis 
 Kxci'llolicy till' (ioxeniDf ( iciieiiil ; |iiiiyiiif,' that 
 His KxcclloiR'y will i ausf to \n' laiil liitoie tliis 
 House, c()|)iL's of all school onliiiaiucs. scliool 
 rcju'iilatioiis and aiiu'iitiriiciits tiicrcto. adoptt'il liy 
 tlu- Lc),'lslativi' Assfiiilily. the Kxii\iti\ i', and any 
 Boai'd or ('(iimcil of Kducation. in rcfiTcnot' to the 
 I'stalilishniont, niaintcTianic and administration of 
 Schools in the North-west 'rciriloiics since ISIS,"); 
 
 Also, foi' co])ios of all )K'tilion-i, nicnioiials and 
 corres|)ondi;iic(; in lefeience tiieieto ; 
 
 Also, fof copies of all npoils to the ( Jovenior 
 (ieneial in Conncil. and all coinniiniications and 
 representations to the authoiities in the North- 
 west Territories. 
 
 'I'liat an liinnhle Address Ite piesented to His 
 Excellency the (Jovernor (Jeneral; praying that 
 His Kxceilency will cause to Ije laid hefore this 
 House, coi)ies of all petitions, nienioiials ami cor- 
 responilenco in reference to the appeal made in the 
 name of the Roman Catholic miiKirity of the jiro- 
 vince of Manitoha, in reference to tlie school laws 
 of that p'()\ inee : 
 
 Also, copies of reports to and ( )rd('rs in Conncil in 
 reference to the same ; 
 
 Also, copies of theca.se sulimitted to the Suiireme 
 Court of Canada, respecting aforesuiil appeal, in- 
 
 cluding faetnms and all materials in consiection 
 therewith i)iit hefore the SuprcMne Comt . and of 
 I all judi,'ments renilered and aiisweis given liy saiil 
 I court on or to the ijuestions ii'feired to tliem. 
 
 I Jlc said : In milking tin' iimtion wliioli 
 is now liot'ore yoti. I (]<> not intend toriuscji 
 cnniplptc ;in<l tiiwil '•• ,itt' ><t\ the ijui'stions 
 ilealt with in x\v paiiors, the pnidnction ot" 
 wliicli I seek tor. 'I'lio.st' (Hiostions are so 
 momentous, tho intiMvst whieli the people 
 j take in tlicni i.s so ij;rcat, and our delmtes 
 ; may lia\t' such an inthicnce throughout tho 
 I whole Dominion on the uitiiiiatf moulding 
 of i>ublio opinion in comu'ction with such 
 (jut'stions, that we nuist ap}iroach them 
 calmly and dispassionately and not urge any 
 body to fommit Iiimsclf until we Jiro in po.s- 
 session of all the papers, and until we are 
 made aware of all the facts connected there- 
 with in their most minute details. It is 
 I with this \ it'\v,it is for the pur[iosp of atlbrd- 
 I ing everyitody an o})portunity of getting a 
 I full knowledge of those facts and of the con- 
 I teutions of all parties concerneil, that I am 
 
iiniv iiiu' t'lr this ii(ltlrt's>. Il.i\ in;,' su sijited viiilcd iniinfdiatfly previous to iimt't-dciii- 
 iny iiitfiitiuii, it mij^lit srem t<t iiiiuiy that I 1 tioti. .Suth liciii^f the ciisp, a (lUfiy sii^'jicsts 
 cuuld ht'if very piupt'ily cut short my I'c- 1 itself to duf mind : shall we, after •_'."• years 
 marks, and let my mut ion he earried without of eonfederatinn. l)e oldii^od to confess that 
 uccupyin;; any more of your time and kind this rejjiino, instead of realizing the great 
 attention,. 'expectations that were entertained at tho 
 
 1 feel, however. a> if my duty svould lie time of the union, has had no other effect 
 better fullilled l»y taking this op|ioitiiinty tluin to bring us back, after a long circuit, 
 of prefaciie^. as it were, any further action to the starting point, to tiie same uncertain 
 I mav have to tak(^ in these matters, with and gloomy issues ? This aspect of atlairs is 
 >-iich consider;'.! ions as may leail the imlilic worthy of lieing taken into serious conside 
 to a fidl understanding of our position, of i ration l)y those who were instrumental in 
 the deep sense of duty and responsibility ! the inauguration of our jiresent constitution, 
 we are laiiouriiiii under, of the true feelings by all true and well meaning loxcrs of their 
 we entertain, of nur sincere desire for a Country. 
 
 peaceful, eipiitalile and constitutional settle- 1 Let i:s recall tlie]ieriod of our political 
 m<'nt of the i|uestions which are now so history presious to the 1st of July, IStlT. It 
 deeply auit:iting the people of this |)omiiuon, j is an ea.sy task. The hon. gtMitlemen sitting 
 and also of all the alarms and suggestions i in this Mouse wi-re all then sutliciently ad- 
 wliiili are creeping in our hearts w ith re- | \aneed in years to ;ip|preciate the ditliculties 
 i;ard to the future welfare of the confedera- of the time. The administration of alVairs 
 linn. In the performance of this duty, I had become almost impo.ssible in I'nited 
 niav exceed in ui\ remarks the proper limits. (!(ina<la. Political strifes were so intense 
 liut so long as I do not trespass too far on your that no man, no paity, could with any likeli- 
 indulgence, 1 hojie to be aihiwed to yi over lioodofsuccess, undertake the honourableduty 
 eve that widei' ranue which would not other- of carryingon thegovermuent of Her .Majesty, 
 .e in order. I believe that it is most From IStiJ to |,S(; 1. no less than ti\t'dill'erent 
 i.: ortant that some misappreliensions be | governments had iieen in powci'. The pros- 
 dispelled, and some historii'al facts i-ecalled, perity of our land w;is hampered : according 
 and the pi-otection of the minorities in con- to cerlain expressed opiiiion>, the very exis- 
 federati(in as a finidamental ])oint of our tence of Canada as a iiritish colonv was 
 constitution be insisted upon. It cannot lie 
 deiued that these school (jueslions have a 
 disturbing etVecl upon the population of 
 Canada. It would be unwise to close our 
 eves to the fact that from one end of the 
 confederation to the other, there exists a 
 feeling of anxiety wliich prompts all thinU- 
 niii men to look forward and see whether 
 
 emlangered. 
 
 .Men of all |iiirti('s aiid of all .siiuiU's of pdlitics, 
 .siiid Sir .InliM .\. .Mai'iloiiald, liccaiiic .ilarintMl at 
 tlic as])ic1 of ,■ I flails ; * * * * unless sonic soiiil ion 
 of till' ililliciilty was arrivcil at, we would sutler 
 iMldfl' a suiicssjou of weak ;,'o\ I'linncnts, weak in 
 nuiiii'rit'al su))|iort, weak in force, weak in powei- 
 of doiui; ^'ood. * * * * leadiiij^' stalcsnicn on liotli 
 sides sccini'd to have conic to the (•oniinon con- 
 
 the storm will permit the ship to rciieli in \ elusion that somt si(|i must l)c taken to relieve the 
 
 safetv the port pointed out to fut ure genera- <';'""V> '' the. lead lock and iniiien.lin^' anarchy 
 
 • , , ' . '. . Ill • 1 I .. t ■ that huns' over us. 
 
 tion> bv theiialriolic and high miiuletl states- ; 
 
 men known as the fathers of confederation. 
 
 Conf. Debates. ]»aj,'e "Jti. 
 
 , , Sir Ktienne Tacht', who was then the pie- 
 
 There are 5,000,000 of people ni C anada. I „^j^,,. ^,^. ^',^„,i,i,i, ^.^i,! ,^|y„ . 
 
 Of that number, L',000,000 are Catholics. It: 
 
 cannot be expected that such a large propor- , licgi.slaiion in Canada for t lie lust two years had 
 
 /. ^1 .■ 1 n • , ;i ..,( ...wl coiiU' almost to a standstill * '' * * the country 
 
 tion or the nation sna remain silent and , i i • ■ i . f « * » « • 
 
 111.11 I 11. t .\ ■ iwas lioidernij.; on civil stiifi * * * * ,n ,,ur pre- 
 
 restful whilst, m some part ot their own | j.,,.,,^ ^,,„„ii(^i„„ w,. could not continue to exi.st as ii 
 country, their rights and liiierties as Jiritish Mritish colony * * * " he woiihl also ask if it was 
 subjects are intruded upon in violation of | ai.t tlu^ duty of liotli sides to do all th.y cmdd to 
 
 .1 . ■ ..wl ;,.f,...i .>V fl.,> .wri^u.i 1 lirevent the iiiifoitiinale results which would have 
 
 the true meaninj' ami intent oi tlie agree- , l ,, , t i, i *. ,. i o ^ 
 
 ^ c followed, -((old. Deliates, pai'e () and !l. ) 
 
 inents entered into by all parties, by the | 
 
 local iuterest(Hl parties as well as by the i Another great leader in the jiolitical arena 
 
 Canadian and Imiieriid authorities. i of the old times also laid stre.ss on the situa- 
 
 The (luestions which are now before^ tlu^ tion. Whilstexpre.ssing his satisfaction at the 
 
 public are of the .same nature as those which confederation scheme, he admitted the urg- 
 
 brou'dit about the state of affairs which pre- ency of the measure for the sake of peace 
 
3 
 
 
 the urg- 
 of peace 
 
 and iti view nf tlic t'ntiii't' stdliililv of tlic 
 <'tiiii»tiv : 
 
 I luniicit liilp ffi'lin^', sn'ul tlir Ifoii. (Ico. Iiniwii, 
 ili.it till' stiiiuulc III liiilt' ,1 lit'iilnic I'm <iiitsiitii. 
 t iuiial ri'fiiriii, tlit- ;i^'itatiiiiih in tlic ruiintiy iiml 
 tin; ticii (• ciiii't'sts ill tilis cliiiliilicr, //(' slii/'i (liiil 
 ihf ilisiiiiil uikI till' aliiisc of III. my yrm-* iirc all 
 citniiM'iixatt'il liy tlif uitiit .silifiiio of irt'niiii wliicli 
 is now ill yiiur haiiils. Ami iij^aiii : I am fiiiilicr 
 in favour of tliis .siliriiu- an a rcnicilial im'a.xui'i', lie- 
 ciiUHc it luiiijjt.H to an <'n<l tin ilmihi thai has .>«o ionn 
 linn^' over oiir po.sition ami gives a iitaliility to oiir 
 fiitiiit'." ({"oiu. Deltiites, |iagfM S4 ami !)(».) 
 
 Siii'li was tilt' loiidif inn (if aHaics when 
 oonffdciatiiiii wa.s di.scus.scd and caiiic into 
 «'xi.steiu't'. And as I lia\(' aiicady .said, lliat 
 condition uf aH'airs had been ijrotiijlit alxiut 
 procisoly hy tln! .^aiuf vital t|U('.sti(iiis wliicli 
 aft' nttw foiifriiiitiiiL; (Hirsfhi's. And ia nr- 
 der to find some lessons to guide ourselves 
 in the jifcsfnt contt^st, it is inteiestiiiif to 
 know the coiifst' taken liv our incdt'Ct'.ssors 
 of nearly thirty years ago. There is soine- 
 tliing refreshing in the jxilitieal events of 
 that time. Irrespective of the intrinsie 
 value of the scheme which has since heen 
 adopted and accejited as our constitution, 
 irrespecti\"e of the dill'erent opinions that 
 were expres.sed prt) and con, then took place 
 what will ever b(> consideretl as some of the 
 most illustrious pages tif our history. .Men 
 wilt) up to that time had bitterly fought 
 against each other, jiaused ftir a whilt! before 
 the abyss : they realized the intensity of the 
 crisis, they took advice from the situation 
 and from their patriotism, they rose supe- 
 rior to their passions and above their ptiliti- 
 cal and jiei'soiial feuds, they ilropj)etl their 
 prejudices arul l)urying the tomahawk and 
 joining together tti it'lieve the cmuitry from 
 depi't'ssitiu and fi'om dissensions, tliev en 
 gaged in the noble wtirk tif sowing; and fer- 
 tilizing the seed tif the national tr'ee, thts 
 fruits of which were tti be distribiiled 
 amongst the memliers of the Canadian 
 familv, and whose branches were to irive 
 shade antl shelter to every tine in the land, 
 irrespective t>f race tir creetl. 
 
 And that tiee rooted in the valleys tif the 
 great lakes and t)f the St. Lawrence, 
 was to be extended east, to the .\tlantic 
 Ocean, and west to the Pacific Octjan, ctiv- 
 ering also our immen.se jirairies. That was 
 the magnitude of the sclienn-. lOven then 
 it was CA)ntemj)lated to extend the prosjiec- 
 tive blessings tif coiifederatitin tti the North- 
 west, and st)me of thtise blessinj^s were ex- 
 pressly said to be the sujipre.ssion of religi- 
 
 tais antl race tlissensi(tns, the permanent set- 
 tlement tif .ill such dillicidties in a bitiad, 
 genei'tius, national and lofty s|iirit. ■• We 
 cannot stand still," said the lltm. (Jetirge 
 Ihiiwii, " we c.iniiot go back to cliitmic st'c- 
 t ional liostilityainl discord." (("tinf. I )ebates, 
 p. ■'^7). .And a few minutes before he hati 
 said : 
 
 'riif vast Iiiilian tfiriloiifs "• * * * will i-ii' |on}{, 
 I ti'iiHt, III' o|i('n('il up to i'i\'ili/.iition iimlt'i' the 
 auspiccN of the lii'ilish .\nii'i'iran ( lonfi'ilfiation ; 
 * * * * oiU" .silicinc is to I'stalili.sh a j,'ovi'innifnt 
 that uill cnilfaNonr to niaintiiin lilifity, juntit^u 
 ami ( 'III islianity throughout the land. 
 
 •• Whin '.'" iiitcrni|it til .Mr. Wallniilgc. 
 
 ■■ N'l'iv soon, ' ri'iilifil al omi', .'^ir ( ao. K. ( 'ar- 
 jicr. (( 'onf. I)cliatts, |i. S(i|. 
 
 Most assuretlly, when tht^ walls of the 
 legislativt' Iniililings in (jhlebec were 
 echoing these .sentiments, when the 
 ])eople tif Canada through their representa- 
 tives, were settling tlieii diU'erences in thai 
 genert)us spirit, wlien they were devising the 
 future of Canada and working ftir the near 
 annexation of our territories, they coiilil 
 not have li.id the intention of fonniiting in 
 thtise distant antl fertile jilains, the discord 
 which had broii;;lit Canatla ttisucha gloomy 
 
 foiidition that tiie leatlersof the nation were 
 ctiiicernetl about the stability t)f iliitish insti- 
 tutions on this stiil. Yet, what tlo wt* see at 
 |)resetit? The spirit of the legislation of the 
 fathers of confetleration is violatetl. .Vfter 
 twenty-five years ui jieace, harmony antl 
 prosperity, men who tlo not know how 
 to lo\e their own countrv' are raising dis 
 cord, are turning men against men, classes 
 against classes, race against race, creed 
 against creed, exciting hatred against a large 
 portion of the people tif Canatla wlitise 
 rights and religious liberties 1 ha\i' here to 
 affirm in this House in the most iiiiei|iii\t»- 
 cal ttM'ins. We are brought back, as I have 
 alreailv said, to the s;ime cont'lition that we 
 were in previous tt) confetleration, by the 
 adoptitm of certain laws relating to educa- 
 tion, which the author of those very laws 
 has himself piiu^tically ticclaretl not more 
 than three or four weeks am» in Winnipeg 
 to be unjust to ('atholics and evi'ii unctinsti- 
 tutional. .Aj,'ain, the prosperity of Canada 
 and possibly IJritish institutitins will be 
 
 : brought to a tleplorable state of instabil- 
 
 'I'he raising anew of those once settled 
 (|uestions is, to my mind, iiuite unaccount- 
 able. It appears the mtire so when we take 
 into consideration the numerous promises 
 
iiiul |ilf(l;;t's that NvtTt i{i\t'n iit (lit- tiiiir <it' the multt'i' ln't'oir the tdiirts, they lifted 
 
 cunffdcnitioii iuul uu many (iccasinns siiicj!. lioiiuuraltly ami in ^'<mk1 tailli : tlit-y rcdt'enu'd 
 
 < hitario and (^imlH-c were the first |in» tlir jilcdycs ^'iven om tiicir Iwlialt'. 
 viiicestn i-ntt'C into tin- patii nt' fccniicilia I will ask ymi, lion. i.'<'iitit'Mit'ii. and ask tlie 
 
 tiitti and ot" nnitiial ii'^'aid ; tlicy were the cuiinliy tn tiini|iari' tin- nolilc tundiict uf that 
 
 first to |)l<'d]i,'f thi'iMselvcs to In- tolerant to ( "atlmlic provinee wit h (he rondiict ot' some 
 
 the uiinoi'ity. jxililieians of oiii' o\\ n days. 
 
 I am exceedinj^ly ;ilad to lie alile to state Let us come nos\ to my own ]ii'ovinee and 
 here that Ontario, the ;j;reat piovinee ot" to the North-west Territories. 'I'o liie I'ath 
 Ontario, has, up to the present time, faith- olie minority there, solemn jiled;;es were also 
 fully kept its pledi.'es : atid let us hope that ;,Mven. In the first plaee, we ha\e the riyht 
 nots\ ithstandin;; the riH'ent a;(itation and 
 clamours, whether thev come from any indi- 
 vidual or aas(><iatiiin, the pid\ ince of On- 
 tario will in the future as in the pa.st, re- 
 main faithful to the cumpact entered into in 
 iJ^fiT. It would lie to its everlastinji honour 
 to pursue sucli a j)olicy. 
 
 (.^)uel)ec also has kept its pledges, and in its 
 case there have been some peculiar ciicmn- 
 .staneps worthy of rememlirance. When the 
 resolutions in respect to confederation were 
 discussed at <j>iieliec, the minority of that 
 pi'ovince expr'essed a fear that they were not 
 suHiciently prot(>cted, especially in I'dui'a- 
 tinnal matter's, against the possible encroach- 
 ments of the majority. They asked for- 
 some chanjies. Their- r'e{|uest was acceded 
 to. and the clian,i,'es asked for' were to he 
 enrliodied in a law. I'arliarrrent, however, 
 was prortjfjued sooner than if. had Iteerr e.x 
 pected and (lie hill could not he passed, and 
 again the mirroiity umvc expr'essioir to their* 
 fears. At a suhse(|uent session an attempt 
 was rirade to pa^a th" '>i!! I'Ut nnsnccessfuUy. 
 Then itappears the irrinority Itecame alarmeil, 
 and so jealous were they of what they con- 
 sidered to he their' i-ights, so anxious were 
 they to j,'et pi'otectiorr for' the same that 
 they would have i-efused to enter' into con- 
 federation had not Sir (teor-<j;e Htienne C'ai'- 
 tier solved the diliiculty. He jtlcdyed him- 
 .self to the minor'ity that as soon as the con- 
 feder'ation would he formed, when <^)ue1)ee 
 would have a par'liamerrt of its own, one of 
 its first acts would be to put upon its sta- 
 tute-hook the law that they were obliged to 
 di'fi]) on that day. 
 
 The Protestant minoiity accepted thes( 
 pr'()ini.se.s, feeling confident that .such a solemn 
 pr'omise would he observed, and the pledgi' 
 was efJeetually r-edeemed. Tlu^ Legislatur'e 
 of Quebec jiassed the law pi-onii.sed by its 
 chieftain for the protection of the minority. 
 Although there was no written law binding 
 them, the people of Quebec did not try to 
 evade tl\eir responsibility, they did not take 
 
 to lely orr the general jiromises of pr'otcction 
 eoirtained in the federal corrstit ution as ex- 
 plained during the debates on the lesolut ions 
 placed befor'e the I'ar'liameiit of old C'an.ida 
 in iJSt)."). Then fears wer'c entertained an<l 
 vi;.'oi'ously expr'essed l)y the o)>ponents of the 
 measur'c as to the condiliorr in which the 
 mirrorities nright aftei'wards find themselves. 
 lUit it was r'epeatedly said that all thr'ough 
 
 , confedi'r'atjon, and for idl tirrre to come, the 
 
 ' minorities wfiuld receive pi'otection and be 
 accor'ded the freearrd full errjoyment of their' 
 
 I language, and especially of their- religious 
 itLstitutions and liberties. Why! Confeder- 
 ation was conceisefl and passed and adopted 
 
 expressly with that view! In sup|ior't of 
 this proposition, I am ulile to ipiote the 
 wor'ds of an Iron, merirber' of the old Legisla- 
 tive Council, the lionour'al)lt! .Mr. Christie. 
 lie said : 
 
 \\ c liail r-i'iiciifil n cdiiilitiei' iilijiipst iHPicU'iiiig .(111 
 iiriiii-diy ' ' it is ii ('licciiiig fiic't tliiit in tjie 
 
 iniilst (if this stiitf of tilings wv Imvc tdiiinl imcii 
 paliiotir ciiougli to iricfgi' t'ciiiiifi- cliffci-ctn'is and 
 unite tiijictlicr fm- the ]iiii-|i(im' ef fiatning a con- 
 .•Jtitiition w hiili will sffiiic c\ein]itiiiii ffiitn the 
 i-\ il> uriiici- wliii'ii we have liilxiiiri-cl. (Conf. \h'- 
 liatcs, |). ■2\-2.) 
 
 The sentiments expressed in these words 
 by the hon. gentleman were the sentiments 
 of the whole counti'v. 
 
 , But T ha\(' just .said that protection to 
 
 'the minor'ity had been pi-omised, and this I 
 must prove. Ilei'e again I ant in a position 
 to (|Uote the langUrige of .some of the then 
 members of the [vxecutive Council, who 
 went so far as to eiriphatically dechire that 
 in case of injustice the federtd authoi-ities 
 would inter'fcre. 
 
 Here are the words of Sir Etienne Tacht- 
 then the Premier of Canada. In the (|Uot:i- 
 tion I am about to make, the hon. gentleman 
 
 : is si)eaking with regard to the Protesttint 
 minor'ity, but it is obvious that these w-ords 
 
 , are applicable to the Catholic minority as 
 
 i well : 
 
 will 
 
 I it (I 
 l.v 
 
 iiai 
 
 !•; 
 
 I'.v 
 thi's 
 
 j'\',i 
 
 ai'tii 
 
 \v 
 
 L'ilKII 
 
 spir 
 star 
 the 
 oou I 
 
 Tl 
 j)i-i'|)i 
 
 jUSli, 
 
 iticis, 
 
 A: 
 
 wen 
 as it 
 
 tllfU. 
 
 <I(inf 
 for tl 
 (Conf 
 
If till' loM'CI lil'lllK'll, cit I III' Ir^JKliktlU'c, Hiiiil 
 
 Sir Iv 'I'lii'lii', wfiT iiisi'iisiiif ciKMi^'li iiiii) wit'kfil 
 eiioiigli to riiiiiiiiit >iiiiH' tliiu'iiuit iU't iif iiijii.Htit'i' 
 (I ileHJic til icmiiik liiTi- that Sir K. 'rinlii- ilm-s 
 not limit Imm iltcliuiitioii tn ait« within thccnii 
 stitiitiiin, III- t<|>fiil^> i,t iiiiy net III' iiijiistifi') If 
 till' loMcr liiaiHh lit' thf h'u'iKiutur)' wvyr iiisni 
 .silt)- ('lliiu;;h aiiil \N li'ki'il cliiiii^jh tn ('iilliliiit miiiiii' 
 llajjraiil act nt' iiijii-l irr against ihi' Kiinlish I'riitfs 
 taut [Kiriiiiii lit the luiiiinimit v, they wmihl lie 
 
 chiM iiiil hy thi' yrili'ia! j^civ iiiilllint. Itut the iliill. 
 ;,'i'iithliiaii arj^'iicM that llial would lai.si' an i.-.sue 
 lictwi't'ii the jural ami tllf Hfllcial ^'(>\ criiliiflitM. 
 \\ f lillLMt not, howrvrr, foigi't that thr i;i'llcriil 
 liovfriiiiiriit i> roiiipiisi'il of ri'|irrsfiitativi's fiom all 
 |»oi|ii)iis of the roiiiitiy that they would not In- 
 likely toroiiiiiiit an iinjiist ait and that if tlu'V did 
 No.thry w oiild Im' iiii't liy .siuh a storiii of oiiposit ion 
 an would swti'ii thi'lii out of tinir plaics in a vny 
 ,iioit tiiiii'. (Conf. Drii. , |i|i. •_*.'{t)-7. ) 
 
 < »ti tlic otlitM' side of till- lliiiiso, Sif A. A. 
 • •(ifiiiii, tin- U'iulci' i)t' the IJlx'iiil piifty in 
 Ldwt^r C*ii!ia<lii, sjxiku in the shiik! sti-aiii : 
 
 I think it lint jn.st tiiat tin- I'lotu.stant minority 
 •sliould lie )irot('eted in its ri;,'hts in every tiling 
 that was dear to it lis a distiiut nationality, and 
 should not lie at the diserition of the majoiity in 
 this respect. (('onf. Deliates, p. '27){).) 
 
 Sir Naiii-isr Hcllcaii also said in answer 
 to an iiiiicrtiiiii, and in s|ii'akin,i; ot' the 
 niin(ii'itie> : 
 
 Their religion is j.'uaianleed liy treaties; they 
 will he [ildteeted liy the \ ifiilaiice of the Federal' 
 ( iovei i.iiient, wliicli will never permit the minority 
 ot one portion of t he ronfederation to lie oppressed ', 
 liy the ma jority. (('onf. jleliates, p. i S4 | 
 
 A few ii;i 111 tents liefore. tlie same gentleman 
 had said : 
 
 Kveli iirantiiii: I ii.it the I'l utestinits w eft- wi oii;;ed 
 hy the Loeal LiLrislatiii e of Lower Canada, i-ould 
 they not avail tliemsehi's of the proteetion of the 
 J'"eileiiil Leuislatnre '.' And wnidd not the KeiUial 
 ( ioveinilielit exeleise stliet surveiilanee o\ er the 
 iietioii of the Local i..(>gislatures in tlie.se matters V 
 Why should it he .soiij^ht to ^ive existence to ima- 
 gina'ry fears'.' (Conf. Deliates, p. I,S:{.) 
 
 No eleai'ef words cotild disclose the true 
 spirit of lair eonstitutioii, and I iitiite under- 
 stand that tile solicitor general of the time, 
 thf! Honouralile, now Sir Jlectoi' Lano'evin, 
 could .say : 
 
 The liasis of aclinii ailopted liy tiie delegates in 
 jirejiarin;; the resolutions was to do justice to all 
 justice to all rates, to all leliyions, to all national- 
 ities, and to ail interests. (Cc>nf. J)eliates, p. .'{(iS. ) 
 
 As T liave already said, these utterances 
 were to ajiply to all parts of coiifetieration, 
 as it might ultimately l)e composed. 
 
 " 1 say, " declared the leader of the j,'overnment 
 then, "I say without hesitation, that what will lie 
 done for one iiortionof the country will also he dm j 
 for the other portions -/(m'i'ci I'ljnh ilislriliuliri ." — 
 (Conf. Debates, p. ;U4). 
 
 1 hope I have .succe«>iled in comphitely 
 demonstrating the proposition which I ha\e 
 enumerated, namely: thai in the course of 
 the dehate.s on the confederation measure, 
 detinite pledges wereojven foi- the protect ion 
 of the ininonlics, and thai ihosc pledges are 
 applicaltle to (he w hole .Nort h west, inclusive 
 of .Manitolia. 
 
 lint more distinct and sjiecial promises 
 have lieen made. These promises came from 
 ditVeieiil aii(hori(ies, ,ind first of all, from the 
 Imperial aiKhoritics 
 
 In a despatch from Lord (iran^ille to Sir 
 .John Young, the(io\efniii( leneral of ( 'anada, 
 we note I hese words : 
 
 That the old illhilhil. lilts ot the country will he 
 treated with such foi ethoiiizlit ;ilid i-olisjderat imi as 
 may preserve them from the ilanmisot t hc.ippioach 
 \\\)i c|ian>;e. 
 
 The clian;;e took place, Iml, as you are 
 aware, amiilsl many unfortunate ciri'umstfin- 
 cies. Tims it came that the (lovernor 
 (ieiieial had to issue a royal |iroclamat ion, 
 in which these words are (o he found : 
 
 liy Her Majesty's aiuhoiity I do therefore as- 
 sure you that on the union with Canada, all your 
 ci\il and relij,'ious riiihl^ and /irirl/nii s will he res- 
 pi'cted, your /(/o/n /•/// Ts.sfuv/ to you. and that your 
 country will he ^^overned as in the past under 
 i liritish laws, ami in the spirit of l;iiti,>h jiisticc. 
 
 T'his proclamation applied to .M.niitoii.i, 
 I and till! North-west as a whole. I'.ecause, 
 then the distinction lietween Manitolia and 
 the North-west did not exist. l)oth formetl 
 only out! immense territory, the annexation 
 of wiiicli was referred to in that proclama- 
 tion. This view is conHrmcd iiy the follow- 
 ing words which I read in a letter of l"'el)- 
 ruary 1(1, ls70, from Sir .lnhn Young to His 
 (irace the .Vrchliisliop of St. IJoniface : 
 
 The Imperial (io\ eminent, as I informed yon, is 
 earnest in the desire to see the Xnrtlini ■,/ ti rriUiri/ 
 united to the Dominion on eipiitalile eonditions. 
 
 And what were these t!(|uital)le condi- 
 tions ? Tin; same letter gives us the mean- 
 ing of those expressions : 
 
 The Imperial (iovermnent has no intention of 
 acting otherwise than in perfect good faith towards 
 the iiihahitants of tlit; .Northwest. The people 
 may rely that respect and attention will lie ex- 
 tended to the dill'ereiit relit;iiiiis persuasions ; that 
 title to every description of property will he lare 
 : fully jiiuuded, and that all the fianchisiss which 
 ' have siihsisted, or which the people may pri>\e 
 themselves (|ualitied to exercise, shall he continued 
 and liherally conferred. 
 
 I After the transfer of our vast plains had 
 I been made to Caiuida, after the province of 
 
6 
 
 .Maiiilnlia hail Ixtm foiini'd. thru i-anic the 
 laws ol' tliis |iii)\ iiii'c lit' Maiiiliilia. Tlir 
 first otimtiut'iit of till' Ir^iislatuif wiw to 
 li'l^islatc accui'ilin>.' to the iilxivt' |)i'<>iiiis('s, 
 ( )iii' ri^'hts and |>iivilci;i's were lu'coyiii/t'd. 
 And ill «.'uu|(lin;,' this iiiiiiifdiali' IcLiislalinii 
 witli tht' seventh elaiiseot' llic Itillnf Kiijhts 
 |)rnvidiii^ t'nr an ei|iiitalile division of tlio 
 inoni'v in matters of eihieat ion lietween I'ro- 
 t«'stants and ('athoUis. we have the hest 
 Hiid tiic surest eoiistrin'tioii of the .Manitol)a 
 Act. It was a pnictical interpretation !,'i\en, 
 whilst every til in;.' was t'resh in the minds of 
 ail, and when no di.>sentin;i voice eonld lia\e 
 Iteen heard. .\nd tiiis juact ical inler|ireta 
 tion lias stood for twenty years. 
 
 That was the tii-st pledge given liy tht? 
 province. It was not the only one, though. 
 I wish here to iiiai\e known to this hoiiour- 
 aliie hfiuse. a jiage of history full of interest, 
 'i'lie legislature df MaiiitoWa ga\e to Us an- 
 other pledge under circumstances very sinii 
 lar to tlioM' under which Sir ( leo. Cartier 
 gas'e his |iledge to the I'rntestants (if (^)ue- 
 bec;- -with this ohjectiolialile dill'eience, 
 however, that it was afterwards disregarded. 
 
 hilling I lie administration of Mr. Mae- 
 keii/.ii', the Local (Jovcriiment of .Manilolia 
 came to ' Utawa for Wetter tinancial terms. 
 Mr. .Macl<eii/ie was not willing to help the 
 province at the time except on condition 
 that tlie provinee would abolish its Legis- 
 lative Council, tlii'ii a part of the legislative 
 machinery. (>iir .Manitoba pilgrims went 
 back to Winnipeg, and made the [irojiosition 
 to theii- colleagues. The Legisliitive Council 
 could not l)e abolished without thi' co-oper- 
 ation, and, in fact, the con.sent of theCatholic 
 repre.sfuitatives of the province, who felt at 
 onct^ that it was for them a most serious ac- 
 tion to take. The LegisIativeCouiicil waston- 
 sidereil as their safeguard against any future 
 aggression upon their rights and privileges. 
 An appeal was made to their intelligence 
 and patriotism. And iit last, for the sake 
 of the ]iroviiicial interest at large, they did 
 consent and by their action assured the iiu 
 provement of tlie tinancial condition of the 
 province. As .soon as the vote liad been 
 registei'ed, a most interesting ])arliamentarv 
 .scene took place. The generosity of our 
 representatives on this occa&ion, the [lublic 
 spirit I'xhibited by them, and their e.xjires.sed 
 confidence in the h)yalty of their English and 
 Protestant countrymen had made a deep im- 
 pression on the minds of theirfellow-repre.sen- 
 tatives, and one of these immediately arose, 
 
 and amidst the enthusiasm of the moment, 
 and on behalf of the Lnu'lish and l'idte-,tiinl 
 population, on l)ehalf of the putvince, he 
 eiiiogi/ed the ( 'atholic and l''reiieli popula- 
 tion, and jiledged his people and the pi ov ii ice 
 that the rights and j>riv ileges of the Catho- 
 lics would never be interfered with, ami for 
 doing so he was cheerfully applauded iiy the 
 
 Whole Jlonse. That man was .Mr. Lu.xton, 
 who is still living.and was then apromiiient 
 member of the legislature. Fie at least, I 
 must say, used his best ell'orts to have this 
 |iledge faithfully kept, and I am happy ri» 
 send to him from my seat in I'arliament the 
 eXpresNidil of the gratitude of the penple 
 whose rights he has so vigorously defended. 
 
 , r>iit I am sorry to say that, unlike the pro- 
 vince of (jtuel)ec under similar circumstances, 
 our province of Manitoba, as a whole, has 
 failed to liniiour itself as did the old pro- 
 
 ' s ince on the banks of tlu' St. fiaw rence, and 
 
 I since IS'.M) we have been deprived, iiy the 
 will of the legislature, notwithstanding that 
 solemn ]iledge. of our iiio.st cherished rights 
 and privileges, our schools an<l the nllieial 
 
 j use of our language. 
 
 I have seen it stated in the pulilii' print 
 that delegates of the Northwest are here 
 for better terms. If that is so. iliere i-^. in 
 the action of Mr. .Mackenzie, in connection 
 with the .Manitoba Jjcgislative Council, a 
 
 ! hint for us all. Conditions might also be 
 imposed upon tlie North-west delegates 
 before their ropiest be granted. Everybody 
 
 may understand what, in my humble 
 
 Opinion, these conditions should lie. 
 
 ! I now come to another pledge given in a 
 most remarkable way, and under most inte- 
 resting circumstances. iUit here I beg leave 
 to re.id from a sj)eecli made a year ago, in 
 the Manitoba Legislature, by a prominent 
 member of thi^ Liberal }>arty in our province, 
 — Mr. l''islier who was at tlu' time, when 
 the pledge was given, the president of the 
 Lilieral Provincial A.ssociation in .Manitoba •. 
 
 ; I now (Icsiif In s|nMk iif ii cK'licutc iiiattiT. wliicli 
 may he s(iincv\ liat distastct'ill to some wlio hear me, 
 luit I am liimiid to tell llic tnitli, even if it may 
 iitlfiKl some. I make the grave cluirgc that tliis 
 si'lidiil Icgi.-ilatidii was juit U]»i>ii the Statiiti'-lxpiik 
 <if tliis ])i()\ iiicc ill (Icliaiicc nt' tlie lutist sulemii 
 liliMlgcs of till' bilifial jiarly. In •lanuaiv (if I.SSS, 
 an event ocrniicil vvliicli liioiiglit tlu- IJ1» rals into 
 power ill this iiroviuce. My lion, fiioiiils had for 
 J ears tiecn engaged in an eti'oit to defeat the Xoi- 
 (|iiay ' Jovernment in which I iielped them all in 
 my power.**** The crisis came when the St. I'laii- 
 (■()is-.\avier eleetion took jilaee at the time I have 
 
 ; mentioned. Dr. Harrison was at that time premier 
 
of tilt' |irilVitl"l<, llllll III' rlllint' UN Ilin |l|'i i\ jllrjal Ml-C 
 
 ii'liiiy 'ii'. .liiMriili Umkr, uliii tliiiii^'li lit' lii'iifiiii 
 llixll lliillli', in ii'iilly a l''r('iirli ( iiliinli.iii. lie wan 
 li\ iiiU iiiiiiiii;^ Ills iiu II |H'iiiili' ill till' •lihtrii't >if St. 
 Fiuih'iiIh Nii\iir, Mini liMil Ix'i II rl)'i't<'il II iiii'ttilii'i' 
 
 1)1' lllio lliiilM' ill ISSli liy iiri'liilillltiiili. t)ll Ui'icpl' 
 
 iii^' iillii'i' III' NM'iii li.ii'k fill re I'li'i'iiiiii. It wuH 
 
 |ll ll|lllHi'i| tlliit \M' ^lllllllll ulllllist' IlilM, tlimii^ll ti)| 
 lilV->i'll I ll|iiil;;lil it UiiH IIM jcNN. Ml'. I''. II. l-'liill 
 
 I'lH, iiii {•lnt'li.-li N|M'iikiiiu ri'i'sliytrriaii wiiN aski'il III 
 take till' lii'lii ii^'.iiiist Ml. Iiiiikr in ilii." Frrinli 
 
 t'lMlstitlli'liiy. Ilf ciilllil liiil piLsMilily lit' clci'lnl 
 
 iiiilcKM III' t;ui 11 |||^^l' |iiii|Mii'tiiiii III till' Mitt'r< iif the 
 h't'ciirli |Mi|iiiliitiiiii. W'itliiiiit tlii.". I .Hiiy IiIk I'li'i'. 
 tiiiiiuii.H III! mIiniiIiiIi' iiii|iii><.-4iliility. Now I Ntati-, 
 (III iiitiii'iiiiitiiiii Mini liclit'l, t li.it Mr. j-'iaiicis, wlicii 
 miisiilti'il li\ li'ii(liii|{ iiiciiilu'i.s lit till' l.llii'i'al |iiii'ly 
 ami iinkfil tn Mi'i't'|)t till' liniiiiliatiiiii. sn\i\ lie wiiiihl 
 licit ac'<'t'|il null .S.S i'iii|iiis\i'i('(| lu^jv,. i lir rlcrlin -. a 
 |ili'il>,'(' that if the l,ilH'ia|s^;,)t into ntli.c tiny w i mid 
 not iiiii rfci'i' w itii t ill' iii'^t it iit iiiii.s nt t lir l'°ii'iu'li, 
 their laii;;iia;.'r nv llicir .■oliiinl \:i\\s. ! am ilitm iiicil 
 that he wa.s aiilhoi'i/t'il tii iiiakc thai |ii<iiiiiT, that 
 III' uciit III till' I'll! t Ill's ami U.I VI' t III III t III' |ili'iL'i'. I 
 dill ii'it kiiiiw that nf my uwii kmi« Inlj.'!', Imt I 
 knew fi'iiiii till' ih'NN .s|)a|iri ir|iiirts, ami fimii ititiii'- 
 iii.itiiiii ln'on^'lit til till' \\'iiiiii|ii'<.' l.ilni'.ils, that 
 wti'iiii^' .s|ir('i'lu'.s wri'i' lii'iiig iiuidc liy .Mr. liUlkc 
 and his fricmls in thr ridiii).'. calliii;; ii|iiiii half- 
 liii'i'ds and {''it'iii'li ( 'aiiadiaris In \ ntc a>,Miiist tliv 
 Lilirral caiidiilati', nil I hi' ).!r<>liml that l.ilit'l'al.s 
 wimlil liktdy pass laws iiiti'ifi'iiiij; with tlii'ir iiisti- 
 tiitiiins. It «as said, " an- ymi ;iiiin,U to jiiit into 
 iiDWi'i' |ii'ii|ilt', who, wiit'ii ihi'y ;;i't into cillii'c, will 
 Ii'fiisliilf aw ay ymir si'linnl and \niii laii;.'iiaL;i','" mid 
 tlu' I'li'ctiiis NM'i'i' a|i|iral('il to In n|i|)nsi' M r. I''raiu'is 
 fnr that ii'a.snii. This lii'i'iiiiii' prait iiaily t he Uadiiii.' 
 i|lli'slinn nt' that ialii|iMij.'li. and the rniitt'st was a 
 crmial niii'. .Slmiihl tlii' lalicrals \t in, it \tas plain, 
 in the \ icw nf the Insscs siislaiiud I'V tlif (JnVfin- 
 lllflit, that tlli'V llMlst li'si;;!!. .Sntll.'it thcslli'ii'ss 
 lit the Lilit'ial landidati' iiiiaiit t hat t hi' party wniihl 
 at unci' attain power, while the electinii i>i .Mr. 
 ISiirke wiiidd alhi'ist eeitainly liaM' in-^iind the 
 cnntiiiiianee nt the l.ilieials in nppnsitinn till this 
 day. It lieeitnic neeessary fnr the party leaders, 
 theiefiife, tn meet this appeal tn tile reli!.'iiiii.s and 
 race feelings nf the Freinh amiiialf lined vnter.s, 
 the pled;.'e ),'iven liy .Mr. I'lamis appearinj;tn lie 
 iiisiillieieiit tn satisfy thein. N'nw the Lilier.ils had a 
 detined platform.**** The idea nf interferiii),' with 
 lights yiiaralileed, nr siippn.sed tn have lieeii giia- 
 rimteed, liy the eniistitininn, had never lieen sug 
 gesteil. On the cnnt rary, it had fiei|ni'iilly lieeii 
 iiniiited nut on the piililic |ilatfnrm liy Lilieral 
 ii'adei'.s that these institutions were proteeted.**** 
 When the i|iiesti(iii aliniit the hilieral policy liei'ame 
 sn pi'oiiiinent and urgent in .">t. I''i-im'nis .X.-ivier I 
 was consulted with nllieis alinut it, and Mr. Martin 
 was asked to go nut and assist the eaudidate, 
 I was tnid that he went nut and attended the 
 ineiailig, and I was tnld nf pioiiiises ne had 
 piililiely made, whieli were, to my knowledge, 
 ill at'i'ord with what was intended he should make. 
 I went with him myself to a .seeond meeting. It 
 wax a large gathering mainly enmpnsed nf French 
 and lialf-iireed Catholics. The same charges were 
 made liy Hurke as tn what the Lilierals would do 
 if in ottice. The .same appeals were iiiailc to liis 
 countrymen and co-religiniiists tn defeat Mr. Fran- 
 cis for that reason. -Sir. Martin in a jiowerful 
 
 r 
 
 Npiei'll, demaillicil the slatemellt i nf liillke illld llJH 
 friends as fal-e. Me tnhl the MU'itliiL'tliat It 'lad 
 lieM'l lieeli the pnlicy iif l.ilierals tn iiiteiti'ie with 
 the laii>:ii,igi' III insiitutmiis of the h'temh l.iilin 
 lie pnpiilalloii, and he appealed to thiiii tntli|.'<t 
 the {.ilii'tals, and tnsiippntt then iiimlidale. At 
 that time I was presidi lit nf the j'lnv im iai .\>'>ncia' 
 tinii nf j.ilieiiils, ami .Ml, .M.illill relelleil tn iii\' 
 meselice at the meeting, Illld -aid I cniild put 
 liiiii li;.lit if he was wrung. He Went tiirther, and 
 tint niily H.iiil Lilierals had lin idea nf ilitelfel iiig 
 with these inslitutinlls, liiil u'aM'a positive pledge 
 ill the name nf the l.ilieral party, that they 
 wniild lint dn so. I haxralw.iys thmiuht that the 
 miiM'ment tn estalilish the pliselit xclinnl law, 
 alinliMh all (alhnlic .schnnls, against tlieslinlig pro- 
 test nt the minnrity was, under the en ciinistam es, 
 and in the l.ice nt tli.it prnmise, a grnss w roiii;. j'ei'- 
 .sniially I made nn prnmiM', luit I ti It .is miicli 
 lioiiml liy the pleilue given as if I li.id uIm'Ii it my- 
 self.*"'' I know ih.it Mr. (ii'i'iiiway, the I'reinier, 
 Was a party to the ui\ ingnf i hat pininise. * * I .say 
 that the pledue was given in the liaiiii of the l.iKe 
 lal party, for .1 p.irt\ purpose, and tli.it il did liiml 
 1 1 nil I iiinlcr t he < iiciimstaiices in w liicli it was made. 
 Wlllioiit that |iro|iiise the party cniild lint have 
 carried that elotinll, and liy that eleetinn alniie 
 they attained tn power. That power was nliiained 
 
 I nil the faith nf that snleiiin picilge, and it was tlu; 
 Liln'ial party, as a party, that lieiielited theieliy, 
 ami that accepted pnwerand took ail\ aiitau'e, for 
 that plirpnse, nf the vntes given nil thefililh there- 
 
 inf.*"** I think we made a mistake and that we 
 
 I niiglil tn ri'tr.ire mil' slips and do w hat i« rii.'lil in 
 
 ! this matter. 
 
 , riit'.sc |i|i'(lgcs, |iiiliiirly givrii tn t lie ( '.it im- 
 
 lics nt' .Maiiiliilia iiinli-r the cii'ctiinsi.ince.s 
 
 iiliovt' I'l't'i'iicd tn, were fciicwt'd li\ Mr. 
 
 (ii'i'riiwjiy, ill \['\s iilliciiil caiDicity a> the 
 
 I'l'i'iiiii'i' nf .Maiiitnlia. W'lirti 111' was I'min- 
 
 ; illg Ills ( JoM'l liliiclit, lie went In St. rMiiiit'ace, 
 
 and with th«' kiiowlt'dgd and iiuiscnt i>t' tlie 
 
 1 It'adtTs (it' hi.s |iai'ty, lie luiiiiiiscd His dracf, 
 
 .Mgf. Tacht', tlinuigh tin- \'icai- (iciifial nt' 
 
 the Aichliishop. that liis ( JiAiTiiint'iit wnuld 
 
 tint ititiM't'rfc with the riglits and priv ilnges 
 
 I (if thi' minnrity in sn tar as their language, 
 
 j tlieir schnuls, and thcif I'li'i'tmal (nsisi(jns 
 
 ' wcfc (•(iiK'cincd. And in evidence nf' tliis 
 
 new pledge, I w ill read liiiet ahst laets nt' two 
 
 , solemn deelafations given, the tiist hy tln^ 
 
 Vi(jar (leiieiahand theotheihy Mr. Alloway, 
 
 then a imlitical friend nf .Mr, (ii-eenwav ; 
 
 The Hon. Mr. (Ireeiiway tlnii stated tn luc that 
 he hail lieeii called tn fni ni a new ( ioverniiiciit in 
 
 ' this jiiovince. and that he was ilesiinus tn 
 strengthen it liy taking into his caliinet nne of tlu; 
 l'"i'eiicli memliers of the legislature who wniild lie 
 agreealile to tile ,\ii'liliishop, wherciipoii I rciiiarkeil 
 tliat I did not think tliit Hist iiacewnulil f.ivoiirany 
 French memlier joining the new administration 
 
 Miiicomlitioiially and without any previous under- 
 standing as to certain i|iiestiiins of great impnrtaiice 
 
 ; tn His (irace. Mr. lireenway replied that he had 
 
 I already talked the matteriivei' with his friends and 
 
thilt he (Mr. (ireeiiwiiy) Wiis .|iiite willing to jiuii- j This is the history of the wh«)le ti-ans- 
 liintee, tiiiiloi' his g«.vfii\iiiLMit, the iiiiiiiiieiiiiiitjf of | ,j^,^iQ,j j^„(j |;|„. f„-\aiu of our troiil)les — no 
 
 the then existinj; eomlition witii legurd 
 I. To sejHinite Ciitliolic schonl.s. 
 •_'. To tin- oflii iiil use of tlie Krenili liinguage. 
 
 public j,'oo(l in \ lew, l)ut mere party advan- 
 tagcM. Now, tuiiiiny our eyt's to the North- 
 west Territories, I say tiiat the pledges given 
 in the name of lier Majesty, pledges to 
 On the following iiioining, in lunsiiancc of the wliich I ha\r referred abo\e, should he sufh- 
 
 ."!. To the Kren 
 
 eitoial (li\ isioiis 
 
 l|i))ointnient 
 
 ! atti 
 
 It th 
 
 le othee o; 
 
 her loyal sub 
 
 the Cath 
 
 cient to pro 
 then eomniitni 'i*^" l>oi)ulation, against any encroachment 
 
 Mr. AUoUMV ill Winnipeg, and the 
 
 .said Hon. Tiios. ( iieenway, and I ... 
 
 eated to liini tile nie.ssiige "of HisCiaee. so intiusteil upon their lilterties. lliit thert! is .something 
 tome as aliove set out. and Mr. < iieenway tiien 
 i\])res.sed to nie his personal gratitieation at the 
 said message anil atritude of Hi.■^( ;r;iee. and he then 
 
 as.-.ured nie that faith would he kept )>y hisCiovern- 
 nient witli His (iiaee : iinil then again, and in 
 .-pei'itic teiins rei)ealed to nie the ass\ir:iiu.es tiial : 
 
 I. Tlie Calliolie .■-e|)aiate seiiools. 
 
 •2. The oliiiial use of Kieneli language. 
 
 ;{. The nuu'.lier of l''reneli eonstitueneies wduld 
 not liu distnrlied during his aiiniinistratioii. 
 
 1 h:iil proniiseii not to viohite the eontidenre if 
 the Moll. Mr. t li'eeiiway, liv disclosing the parti'ii 
 i.iis of said )iroiiiises and assuranees tiy the said 
 Ml. ( iit'etiuiiy on the tloor of the Legishiture 
 jiiitw it hstaiidiiig that he Imd 
 .siitne liefore tliiit time. 
 
 denial hy him of siteli promises and liis missliite- 
 nieiits of what look plare, 1 would not liave felt at 
 liherty to now disrlose the »anie. 
 
 Mr. W . I'. -Mloway was ]iresent at his 
 dr.ring the second iiiti't'view with snid Hon. 
 (iieenwav. as iiliove set out. 
 
 The t'lillnwiiij. 
 Aliowav ; 
 
 more. We find another pledge, we (iiid a 
 distinct agreement between the people of the 
 North-west and this Dominion in tlie Act 
 of this Parliament sanctioned in ISSo. 
 Section I I uf said Act dechires in iim uncer- 
 tain terms the tights of the t'atliolics to their 
 schools. Yet, you will see by the jiapers 
 which will be produced on this motion, that 
 the legislature of the Xorth-wcst has 
 respected neither the pledge nor the agree- 
 ment. You will see that their recent legis- 
 
 md violate.l the '"terms of liitioii IS simply an evasion of the law, thus 
 
 ,uid liiit for such o])en julding derision to wrong. 
 
 ] ha^■e now ex[)lained to you some of the 
 circumstances under wiiich our province 
 otliee ' anil the north-west became part of the 
 riios. j JXnninion. You ha\ e in a brief form, some 
 of the pledges that were given for the pro- 
 tection of the mitiority ; \ou know the 
 actual condition of things, find from all that 
 vou mav well imagitie wliy we are to-day so 
 
 is the atHda\it ni .Mr. 
 
 1. Williiini Foi lies .VIlo\\,iv. of the citv ot W'i.. - . • i i -u n ■ 
 
 nipeg. in the county <,f Selkirk, hanker. ,l„ ' seriously aggrieved and you Will torgrc us it 
 .--olemiily declare that I ha\e seen and read the ' Ave vent our sentiments. The pi'ovincial 
 .statutory declaration of the \'ery Hev. \'iiai pledges, the fedei'id pledges, the iuijierial 
 .lemral .\Ha,d. made l.etore Alex Haggard ^' ; piedyes themselves and all the most solemn 
 t ommis.--ionei of the K. K..etc., on this tirst dav ' '^ '^ , , ,. i i i 
 
 .,f .\iiril, A.D. IS!f_'. and I .say that I was picsen't 'i,i?i'eements have been disregarded, and a 
 
 '1 did on said tirst large })roportion of Her Majesty's subjects 
 are subjected to tli(> most inicpntous injuries, 
 against the peace and prosperity of the 
 countty, to the damage of its good renown, 
 and for what.' < )nly to get, as has been 
 said by Mr. Fisher, party advantages; 
 I know that .some other reasons are tjiven, 
 
 as liicrein stated liy liim, atu 
 
 occasion introdiiee the Hon. Tlios, (Ireeiiway to 
 
 the Vicar (.eiieral, and 1 say that the account of 
 
 .said interview, as .set out in said declaration of 
 
 the \'icar (General, is title in stiiistaiici' and in 
 
 fact. 
 
 I was present at the whole of the said inter- 
 view and heard all that transpired hetweeii the 
 Viear ( ieiieral and said Thos. ( ireenw ay. ii i i i • ■ 
 
 1 further .say that I was iiresetit at tiiy hanking ' ""t thev do not bear examination, 
 olhce on the followiiii.' day when the Vicar (ieiie- 
 
 ral and the said Hon. Thos. (ireenway met iiccord- 
 iiig to appointment made the day previous, and 1 
 heard most of the interview tliat took ])lace he- 
 tweeii them on that secoiiil day, and I say that 
 the ]iromises anil (iledges as set out in the Vicar 
 ( ieneral's saiil statement were rcpe.ilcd on the 
 said second iiiter\ie\\. and tile said (ireeiiwiiv then 
 c\))ressed himself as very much giatitied with the 
 attitude asstinied liy His (Jrace the Archhishop, 
 towards his ( loveriiment, and expressed siichsati.s- 
 faction not only then, Imt in my presence after- 
 wards. 
 
 .\iid I make this si)leinn declaration, con- 
 scientiously helieving the .same to lie true, and iiy 
 virtue of the Act respecting extra-judiciiil oaths. 
 
 It is not, jierhap.s, the pid])er time ti go 
 fully iiito these objections. With the kind 
 permission of the House, I will brietly refer 
 to them in order tn elucidate the situation, 
 and with the hope of dispelling some misap- 
 preheii.sions. In the tirst place I may mentiim 
 the reproach M'ry frequently made against 
 oui' schools of not being adequate to the re- 
 (piirements of modern etUiciition. In an- 
 swer to that let me sim|ily read to you the 
 programme of our schools : 
 
 1. Religious instruction in the chihrci lunguage. 
 
 and 
 •1 
 Tliei 
 thin 
 as p 
 hi.i\\ 
 
le tniiis- 
 l)les — n«) 
 y advjiii- 
 le Noitli- 
 I't's jiiveii 
 edges tti 
 I be sutH- 
 lie Cfitlio- 
 KiL'liiiit'nt 
 onif'thiiig 
 .ve tiiul ;i 
 pit' of the 
 the Act 
 in 1S8">. 
 UD imcei'- 
 •s to their 
 11 ' jiapei's 
 tiun, tliat 
 west has 
 the agi-ee- 
 cent logis- 
 hiw, thus 
 
 itiie ot' ilie 
 province 
 •t of the 
 oi'ni, some 
 )!• the pi'o- 
 know the 
 in all that 
 » to-day so 
 rgi'-e us if 
 provincial 
 e imperial 
 ost solemn 
 ed, and a 
 's subjects 
 IS injuries, 
 ity of the 
 )d renown. 
 s has been 
 1 vantages : 
 are given, 
 1. 
 
 time t( gti 
 \ the kind 
 rietly refer 
 ! situation, 
 ome niisap- 
 ay mention 
 ide against 
 e to the le- 
 ft. In an- 
 te you the 
 
 r.s iiuigiKigf. 
 
 f 
 
 tf 
 
 
 '2. Ri'iKiing. I 
 
 .■?. S|ii.lling. I 111 Kivncli and Hiig- 
 
 4. (iriimiiiur liiid aiiiilysis. | lisli. 
 
 i). CoiniMisitioii. I 
 
 t). IViiniiiiislii)). 
 
 7. Liiifiir iliiiw iiig. 
 
 *<. ( 'alciiliitiDii, aritlniiftic, iiLiii>uiati(iii ami al- 
 i:clira. 
 
 il. iJookkccpiiig, single and douhlf cniiy. 
 
 |0. (ifoyiajiliy (if all jjui'ts of the world. 
 
 II. .Sanvd lii.stoiy, iii.^tory of Canada, Knglaiid 
 and Fraiicf. 
 
 !•_'. <ic)0(l lii'havionr, politcni'ss and Ipccoiniiig- 
 
 I."!. A'ocul miisii.-. 
 
 14. L'.-'eful l<iio\vk'<lgf, fiom tlir most rmlimuti- 
 tary to xhv fluinints of pliysirs. ciuinisliy, agri- 
 tnltiiiv and astronomy. 
 
 I."). For thf girls, domistio iTonomy. sfwini.'. 
 omliididorv, t'ti/., ctf. 
 
 Is iiDt this programme sutliciontly cum 
 picliensive for a jirimai y school ? I do not 
 hoitate to say that most of the unprejudiced 
 experts in pedagogics would look at this 
 programme as one which could not \)v ex- 
 tended without danger of overturning into 
 cramming, tlie most disastrous system fur 
 tlic hcahii ami the intellect <>f tiie cliild. 
 
 .MDi'eover, allow mc to state that at a 
 provincial exhiltition lield at I'ortage la 
 Prairie, in Manitoba, nur sciioois got a 
 dij>loina for general excellency. Allow me 
 III state also that at tlit^ London Colonial 
 Exliil)ition, eleven df our schools sent ex- 
 hibits, which were the ordinary work and 
 exercises of tiie schools, and the result 
 was that medals and diplomas of merit were 
 awarded to nine of those ele\<'n schools. 
 And tiie character of our e.xiiibit at the 
 Chicago Fair should not lie ignored. There, 
 by friends and foes, by English, French and 
 German visitors, l)y the L'nited Statesrduca- 
 tionists, by our <i\vn people, liy experts of 
 all eountries, and finally bj'the ollicial judges 
 in that section, the Ciitholic school exhiiiits 
 have lieen proclaimed to be in the front rank 
 of the educational display of the whole 
 world. Surely this evidence should receive ' 
 the utmost consideration, and at least should 
 cau.se the enemies of our institutions to 
 pause before allowing their hostility to go .so 
 far that the word injustice is not too strong 
 to qualify it. The statement has also been 
 made that our schools were church schools, 
 and under the control of the hierari'liy. i 
 
 This is altogether a misaiiprehension. 
 There has not been for years any such ■ 
 things in Canada as church schools, in so far' 
 as primary education is concerned ; except, 
 hi.iwever, in mission countries where no other 
 
 .schools lan be had. In .Manitoiia especially, 
 our seiiools were |iui'ely public schools in 
 every sense of the word, like the otiicr schools 
 then in existence in the pio\iiice. They were 
 not contnjlled by the church but by the 
 parents. They existed l»y virtue of the same 
 l.iw and under exactly the same conditions 
 as the schools attended liy the Protestant 
 chililreii. The only things which were subject 
 to tiie approval of tlie churcii autliorities 
 were tiie bijoks in connection with religious 
 and moral instruction. Surely tliis cannot 
 be refu.sed to the churcii. wiiicii is tlie proper 
 autiiority in tlie niatler. .iid the state instead 
 of objecting to tliat siiould, on the contrarv, 
 be thankful to tlie chunii for its care — 
 because liigii and sound morals constitute a 
 blessing to tiie state in all its civil and 
 jiolitical manifi'statioiis. 
 
 In fact, in .ill our contentions, what we 
 claim is not church scliools, l»ut parental 
 schools. 
 
 It is the duty of jKirents to care for tiieir 
 children, and to educate them, ."since it is a 
 duty tiiey must iia\i- tiic rigiit of accoinplisii- 
 ing tiiat duty. It would lie an absurdity, a 
 derision or a tyranny to tell me that I am 
 bound to iierform a I'ertain duty, and at the 
 same time to put in my way sucii obstacles 
 as woultl take from me tlie liberty or the 
 possibility of iierfotiiiing tlie same. Tlie 
 State cannot interfere to curt.iii tiie rigiits 
 of the parents. ]5ut it cm undertake to 
 assist the parents in their duty. Xeither 
 the ciiurcli nor tiie pari'iits !iavee\er refust>d 
 to tlie state its legitimate interfereni'e. 
 EAeryboily is in .iccord in wisliing a large 
 and intelligent ditl'usion of knowledge. 
 Taking into consideration tiie circumstances 
 surrounding modern communitie.s, the ciiurcli 
 and the jiarents admit tiie assistani'e of the 
 state in tiiat noble work. Tliey admit that 
 the State has an interest in the education of 
 the people. They admit that the .State has 
 a right to see that tiie assistance given is not 
 misapplied, tliey admit that the .State li;is ;i 
 right to exact a full compensiition in the 
 form of knowledge, outside of religious in- 
 sti'uction, for tiie money tliey iiand over to 
 tiie parents to iielp the latter in the fuUil- 
 ment of the duties impo.sed upon them by 
 nature and their religious convictions. 
 As a matter of fact, tliey only retain prac- 
 tically now-a-(lays the right of guiiling the 
 morals of tlieir children and of teaching them 
 how to worship their God upon this earth. 
 Thus understood, there is no inconsistency 
 
10 
 
 I 
 
 ,h 
 
 in (lur tln'()fv, then' is nn cliisliiiii,' bftwfH'ii irivcii uiiy place i.t pivitMiciiof, except what itsdvvn 
 
 tlio ri-hts of the paiviits uiul tlic li-lit ..t' ^-I'^W »"'l us<t"l'H'-- to the cnnminity at lar-e 
 
 1 t. i ,^v ,1 X ^1 • c' •i.i; 1 secures till' It. 
 
 tlie State. On tlu' contrary, tlieir is a tiuittiu 
 
 and harnionions aivonl \vliicli lias its o.n- i Tlic foUowini.' is tVom a report addro.ssod 
 tinual and delijihiful <vliofS in til." hearts of t" ^''•' Lieutenant (iovernor by .Mr. .J. I*.. 
 all f,'ood citizens and brin,ii.s them together i f^'J'xerset, superintendent of Prote.stant 
 and .•ontrilaites t<. the national unity.' .schools, dated l'9th April, 188(i : 
 
 This biin<,'s _ me to the consideration of i^ ^^ gratifying to all lovers of goo,! citizen- 
 another assertion. It is frequently heard ship, ii.'s well as of educational progress, to note 
 that in educatiii-' the children of all deno- ' tliat from the orL'auizaiioii of tiiis .sy.steni of man- 
 
 agenient in IS7I. at \\ iiich period the Protestant 
 schools niindieicd sixteen and the <'atlioliis seven- 
 teen, to the present, there has lieeii an almost 
 entire alisence ot the friction and disagreement 
 riie theory niav lie a laudaiile one, ; that have marked the progress of education in 
 
 ininat ions together in the common 
 or in the so-called national schools. 1 
 wiiuh 
 j)t ople. 
 
 1 result aiiion<fst all classes 
 
 set tools, 
 artiiony 
 of the 
 
 l.ut facts go agaiiLSt it! I'.y forcing people **"""' "' ""^^ "'■^'*''' l""viiices. 
 
 together iigainst their will, you may form a I will read another extract from Dr. Morri- 
 
 crowd, a mass, a multitude, but that is not son, who is now in the lower jtroNince-. lait 
 
 social or national unity. Unity does not who at one time lived in the province of 
 
 cnsist in uniformity of colour or calling, i .Mjniitolia. 1 take this extract from a speech 
 
 It r.ither depends upon a common love foi' ,,f his j)ublislied in t lie St. John Sim, LHlth 
 
 our country, a common devotedness to its .md J7tli February 1^94. He said : 
 
 interests. >io\v, we deny to all the rii^ht 
 
 to sav that we do not love cmr Canadian Tli>"ugiiout all these years, from 1871 untillsss 
 
 , " , 1 ^ I 1 • 1 no com|)laint was ever made with the workings or 
 
 home, that we are not devoted to its best >,,,,. .^.j,,,,,^^^. ,,.,,„„, ,^.,„,,„ x„ i„j„stice was com- 
 
 iiiterests. Harmony is desireii. Most sin- , plained of l.y anyliody in any puhlic manner * ' * * 
 cerely we long for the day which will sec There was no .Manitolia Scliool (|iiestion. The 
 harmony re.stored. I'.ut cast a look upon ' F't'opl''. i'n.testant an.l Carholic alike, were per- 
 , •' ^ . , 111 ^- I fectlv contented «lth the si'hool system as It then 
 
 the countries where such school questions ; ^.^j^^;.,, . ,^,,,, j,,^, iVote.staut and'Catholic j-opida- 
 are raised. Harmony does not exist in those ; tion lived tf)g«'thci' in peace and harmony, and with 
 countries. Within our own Vwrders, wluit do ' i)erfect satisfaction with tlie school system as it 
 exjierience and history teach us ? , '^'"^" ^^''"^• 
 
 Tn hSC)."), and for years previously, no I 
 harmony exi.sted, just on account of the 
 same sort of contentions. The leaders of the j 
 nation liad to declare that extreme discord i 
 reigned and that the country was on the , 
 
 verge of anarchy. By the confederation ; M,.. {'(.epiiway, is he not ? 
 
 measure those school rjuestions were settled | 
 
 in accordance with ju.stice, and immediately { Hon. .Mr. J>EHNIKJi— Tdonotknow. Xow, 
 
 peace and liarmony began to reign. | can thertdieanydoubtthat we weretheu Hying 
 
 Previously to the raising of these (|ues- 1 in peace and harmony? But now,seek through- 
 tions in M;initoba and in the North west 1 out (uir immense prairies, ea.st and west, and 
 complete harmony prevailed there. lu , tell me where union is to be found? (Jurcoun- 
 evidence of this fact. I will quote from the I try is in a spasmodic mood throughout, and it 
 writings of gentlemen whose testimony j will be so until our grievances are e(|uita])ly 
 cfinnot in this respect, be suspected: 'and constitutiimally settled. No, harmony 
 
 In 188"J, Rev. Di. G. Bryce \vri)te a book ! will not be restored, nor promoted by 
 entitled "Manitoba, its infancy, growth ■ dejtriving us of our rights and of our reli- 
 and present condition." In that book he gious liberty. Harinonv will not be fostered 
 
 Hon. Mr. SCOTT -Who is Dr. Morrison? 
 lb. 11. Mf.BEHXIKR— Heisa Protestant- 
 Hon. y\v. PKRLEY-He is a friend of 
 
 said 
 
 bv forcing us to educate our children in 
 
 , 1 V.' II • 1 • 1 c f . 1- • 1 sc1k)o1s to which we object, but mutual 
 
 Lord .Selkirk s .scheme of perfect religuiiis eoual- 1 i -n i ■ i •' 
 
 ity and toleration is that .still suhsisting i,, fP.it'ii'd will dolt. Let every one cease to 
 Manitolia. One <if the results of this is a friendly ^misrepresent our people, our institutions, 
 feeling suhsisting hetween the different dm, dies, i ,,u, sentiments. Let every one cease to cast 
 Den.iimnational rancour is one of the greatest | „,iiu,„ ^,„^ „ ,^,^ , ,^„p ,.^f,..^jj^ t",.,,^ 
 
 Innclraiices to pi'ogress m a new country. It is I v n i • i i« n 
 
 .satisfactory that there i^ no hone of contenti<in to j f^pt'eading all kind of groundless accusations, 
 (listurli the prevailing harmony. X<i church is I and especially the undisguised accusation of 
 
11 
 
 ' 
 
 disloyalty. This is, tu sjiy tlic least, i)aiticu- 
 larly aniii»yin^' and iintaii- td us. 
 
 I niakc here, as a Catholic and as a jtiihlic 
 man, the t'ollowinj^ stalciiiciit W'v do 
 not owe any ci\ il oi' j)oliti(al alli-j^iance to 
 the Popp. ill' is the head of our church, 
 and as such wv look on him as the pure 
 fountain of truth with ri'.^ard to nioials and 
 religious doctrine. But he is not, he does 
 not pretend to he, and we do not regard 
 liini as our temporal soveicign. I make 
 this statement without any (lualitication 
 whatever, without any mental reservation, 
 in perfect i,'ood faith, and without any 
 apprehension of its beinjj; contradicted or 
 disappi'oved of by any clerical authorities. 
 I '^o further : fnstead of disaffectinj; the 
 Catholic subjects of Jier .Majesty against 
 her rule, the Pojie commands, and tht» 
 Catholic doi-ti'ine teaches us full .and absolute 
 allegiance to our Mo.st (Jracious (.^ueen, to 
 her succi'ssoi's and to the IJritish flay. Facts 
 ai'e in accord with the doctrine. .Vnd to 
 prt>ve what I .say, I have only to refer to 
 the daily behaviour of Catholic jjcople and to 
 Canadian history. Were it possible for those 
 who are constantly ari'ai,i,'nin,n' the Catholics 
 to attend our religious sei'\ ices, they would 
 see every Sunday theCatholic ])eople kneeling 
 before the altar and pul)licly praying 
 the Almighty to bless and to save our gi'a- 
 cious Queen. (Joing back to the time of the 
 American levolution, what do we find .' It 
 Avas only a few years after the surrender of 
 New France to Kngland : thei'e were still 
 li\ing people who had seen the white Hag 
 floating at the top of the Quei)ec citadel and 
 who had fought under it. Lafayette made 
 his voice heai'il amongst us. lie urged our 
 forefatheis to join in the reliellion against 
 British rule. That was ;i French voice, and 
 it sounded like the trump(>t of libeity, yet 
 it had no echo. We listened to another 
 voice — the voice of the Catholic Church. 
 I'isliop Briand, of (Juebec, reminded his 
 flock of the duties of a loyal people, and we 
 remained faithful to our new masters. Again 
 in ISli! and ISl.S, our southern neighb<a\rs 
 marched against Canada. lUit again also 
 the voice of the Catholic Church was heard. 
 The great Bishop Plessis, the same who, on 
 the retpiest of Fjoi'd Selkirk, sent missionaries 
 to the North-west to help that good Presby- 
 terian to estaVdish a colony under liritish 
 rule, sent a pastoral upholding the rights 
 that P^ngland had to our allegiance, and 
 urging oui' militia to go to the front. 
 
 and to the fi'ont we went, under tlie 
 counnand of the illustrious de Salaberry. 
 We sa\ed Canada to England, as we had 
 sa\ed it some ;?."> years before. Ye^. .)m these 
 two occasions we u}iheld the l.ritiNli honour 
 and the Ihitisli flag. Had we joined the 
 rebels of the thirteen colonies, l-aiglaiid 
 could not then have saved Canada any 
 more than she could Boston and the sur 
 rounding states, and tlie British power 
 would then ha%'e sunk for ever on this vtm- 
 tinent. In support of these ideas allow me 
 to (pf te a remarkalde paragraph uhicliis 
 to be found in a letter of Lord Nugent, pub 
 lished in iSi'O : 
 
 ( 'ioiiiciii, wliicli, iililil ynii l:ui ili'strny tile ineiiioiy 
 
 of all tii.il now iiiiiaiii^ tu yim of your mi\ ciriunty 
 
 on tlu' Noitli .Xiiu'i iiiiii Coiitiiicnt. is an aii.-iucr 
 
 |)r'ai'l ical. iiicinoiaMf. ilitliiiill to lie ai'couiitfil toi', 
 
 liiit liia/iiif.' as tile sum itself in si;iht of tlif w iiolc 
 
 world, to till' whole ciiaij^c of dividcil allfL'iaiu-c. 
 
 At your c<)ii.|ncst of ( 'anada, you found it Konian 
 
 Catliolic : you had tc) ijioosc for her a eonstitution 
 
 in Chmeh and State. \'ou wcrt' wise enoui^h not 
 
 to thwart pnhlie opinion. ^ our own eoniluri to 
 
 wards I'reslpj teiianisin in Scotland was an example 
 
 for imitation : youi own con luct towards Catho- 
 
 licisni in Ireland was a. lioaeon for avoiilanet' ; am) 
 
 in Canada you estahlished and endowed tiie iidiyion 
 
 j of tlu^ people. Canada was youi' oidy liomau 
 
 j Catholic colony. ^ Our' other colonies re\<dted : 
 
 I they called on a Catholic power to support them. 
 
 I ami tiiey achieved their inde))em[euce. ('atlndic 
 
 I Canada, with what i.,iU(l l.i\ei| I wouM call her 
 
 ' half allegiance, d/tiiD stood hy you. She loULdil hy 
 your side against the interference of ('atholic 
 Franct;. To reward .mil encourage her loyalty, you 
 endowed in Canada liisliops to say mass and to 
 ordain others to say mass, wiiom.at that very time, 
 your laws would ha\e hanged foi' saying mass in 
 Hn;,dand : and Canada is still youi's in spiti- of 
 Catiiolic France, in spite of her spiritual oliedienci' 
 to the pope, in H)iite of Loid LiNclpool's ariiument, 
 and in Kpito of the indepenilencu of all the .States 
 that suridund her. This is ihe only tiial you have 
 nia<k'. Where you allow to the i-!omaii Ca holies 
 their religion undisturl)ed. it has proved itself to he 
 compatii)le with the most faithful allegiance. It is 
 i.idy w here you have placnt allej;iance and reliyiou 
 liefoie them as a dilenuna that thiy iiave pii'feried 
 (as who will say 'he\ ought not V) their religion 
 to their allegiance. How then stands the imputa- 
 tion? Ilispiovcd hy history, dis))ro\c'd in all 
 .states where hoth religions coexist, and in hoth 
 hemispheres, an<l asserted in an exposition hy Lord 
 Liverpool, solemnly arrd repeateiUy alijuied hy all 
 Catholiis, of the discipline of their- Church. Lord 
 Xugerus letter, |)p. .'<.">, .'{ti. 
 
 Ha\e those sentiments and <Mniditions un- 
 dergone any chang(> in the latter j)art of this 
 century? To any one having doubts on this 
 matter T am in a position to point to the 
 action of our missioniiries iir the far we.st, 
 in that verv j)ortion of our territory whence 
 the troubles come. 
 
12 
 
 In l(S()',)-70, a tirst iiisurrt'oiioii arose in 
 the North-west. Arcrhltislioj) Tadit' was 
 ill Hoinn attcMidiiii,' the sdlcnm ilchhcrations 
 ot' the N'atieaii Council. You nuiv well iina- 
 jiine, honourable gentlemen, what a source j 
 ot' (lelitihts it was foi- an old cln'istian niission- 
 iiary to l)e in tin- Kteriial City at a time 
 when l)islHt|is from all parts of the work) 
 were Leathered tlieri' in the interest of their 
 eliureh. Net, as soon ;is the ('anadian and 
 lin])erial ( ioxerniuenls had expressed their 
 earnest desire of availiiiji themselves of his 
 sei'viees for restciration of pea'.'e and of the 
 leiritimate authority, Ih* went at once to the 
 Holy Father, who. in .Ltivini,' him the necessary 
 dispensation, hlt'ssed him, i)]esse(l the mis- 
 sion that he had just accepted from the civil 
 authoritv, and blessed also the tloek of the 
 old bishop, but that llock he blesse(] only on 
 condition that they were to listen to the 
 I>isho])"s ;id\'ice, to yo back to their homes and 
 live in peace ami charity uiidei- our tla<r. Fin- 
 ally the old Bishop left l{omeand returned to 
 his own country. Tn Ottawa he met the 
 (roNernor (Jeneral who remittt^d him a letter 
 in which w(> read these sifiiiiticant wcjrds : 
 
 1 Mill iiiisimiN til express to ymi. hct'orc you .-sot 
 nut. llle ilcrp M'USfof oliligiitinii wliicli I fi'd isihli; 
 to yciii tor L'i\ in;.' up your rfsiili'iicc iit lioiiic * * * 
 and iiii(l(it:ikiiii; in tliis inclfiiicnt simsom the long 
 voyiiL'i' iifioss the .Vtlantif, ami loiij^ journey iui'oss 
 tliis eontiiieiit tor tile i)iii))ose of reiiileiiiii; scrviee 
 to Her Miijesiy's ( ioveiniiieiit, ,inii engaging in a 
 inis.sion in the eaiise of peace and civilization. Lord 
 (lianville wa.s anxiuu.s to avail of your valiialile 
 assistance from the outset, and I am heartily glail 
 that you have pi'oved willing to ati'ord it so 
 })romptly and geiiiuoiisly. 
 
 After he had received his instructions the 
 lUshop proceeded to the North-west, and 
 peace was restoi'(>d, and tlit^ diifuity of the 
 Crown ujiheld. J>oes this resemble any- 
 thing,' like divided allej,dance? 
 
 fii ISS."), at the time of the second reliel- 
 lion. the Church at^aiu, by its missionaries, 
 was the main intluence which kept in peace 
 the majority of the inhabitants. The fol- 
 lowiiijf is a re-transiation from a French trans- 
 lation of an article in the Eviniim/ .Vc/rs, of 
 Winnijieii '• 
 
 When the whole of Canada feared and tieinlileil 
 to see the lUackfuet sitU' with the lehels, who 
 tirmly stood liefoie them '; who |)iev('nted tlu^in 
 fioin rushing upon us V W'a.s it the Canadian ( iov- 
 ernnient or the forces of the empire'.' Xo, the 
 jioor, humlile and dexoted Father La(;onilie wa.s 
 the man who did so? To him the Canadian 
 mothers owe their thanks for not having to-ihiy to 
 mourn their sons ; to him, many happy wives to- 
 »lay owe their gratitude for not having to sol) over 
 
 the tonilis of their hiisliaiids. Laconihe ami his 
 conipani<in.s, the Fathers .Andre, Fouinioiid, Cixliiii, 
 iind other liraxe soldiers of the Cross, <lid not hesi- 
 tate ; they went and faced the deadly weapoiis; 
 they threw themsehcs lietween the bidians and 
 the Canadian people, at a time when danger was 
 extreme, am' they prevented the shedding of lilood 
 and .saved millions of diilhirs to the piihlic treasury. 
 
 Prevented sheddinj^ of blood and saved 
 millions to the treasury ! and for that bhjod 
 and for those millions of dollars which have 
 been .spared to the country, these very men, 
 and their Mocks, in the very Held of tiieir 
 labours and services, are now accused of 
 dividing their allegiance, of refusing to work 
 in harmony and for the interest of their 
 country, they are tracked as helots, they are 
 ostracised in their own cnuntry wliirh they 
 have so bravely and sode\dtedly .ser\e([, and 
 their vested riglits are confiscated I That is 
 their reward, and by whom has that mischief 
 been done? By .soint; who iiave tliem.selves 
 been saved from the fury of the Indians, 
 and by .some others, new comers, young men, 
 inexjierienced young imliticians, full of pre- 
 sumption but forgetful of the services of 
 those who have kejit the country for them 
 and prejiared their bright future and their 
 lo\'ely homes. Shall Canada be a ]>arty to 
 j that (|uestional)le gratitude? 
 
 In vain the opponents of our Catholic 
 
 I schools try to mi.sguid*' public opinion by 
 
 • appealing to national sentiment and Ijy styl- 
 
 I ing their system a national one. in a 
 
 christian country no others than christian 
 
 schools can be called national schools. To 
 
 I call national a system of atheistic schools 
 
 '■ in a country whert? christian rule obtains, 
 
 j would be a misnomer. As a matter of fact, 
 
 I the struggle is not between the different 
 
 \ christian denominations, but between chris- 
 
 I tianity and atheism, and we are Hghting 
 
 i the iiattle of Christianity. Siieaking in the 
 
 House of Lords in 1891, in connection with 
 
 the Australian schooKs, the Duke of Argyll 
 
 - a Presbyterian, if I am not mistaken — 
 
 testified to this sincere and fundamental 
 
 feature of ovu- action in the following words : 
 
 The Catholics hail the high honour of standing 
 alone and refusing to pull dow n in their si'hool.s 
 the everlasting standard of conscience. This resist- 
 ance on the part of the Roman Catholics, 1 lielieve, 
 may lie the gei'iii of a strong reaction against the 
 pure secularism, against which [ venture to call 
 the pure jiaganism, of the education of the colony. 
 
 But leave aside, if you will, that asjiect of 
 the (piestion, what remain with the partisans 
 of secularism ! A mere theory 1 Now, with 
 us it always remains a matter of conscience. 
 
13 
 
 \>L- ami Ills 
 icl, ( 'iicliiii. 
 
 ll llDt lu'si- 
 
 \\t'ii|)(iii> ; 
 
 iilians and 
 
 aii^'tT was 
 
 liy of l)l()()ll 
 
 I' truasmv. 
 
 nd saved 
 
 liat blcjod 
 
 ncli have 
 
 ery men, 
 
 of tlieii' 
 •cased of 
 If to woi'U 
 
 of tlieir 
 1, they are 
 urh they 
 'r\i'd, ami 
 ! That is 
 t mischief 
 hemsehes 
 
 Indians, 
 )un,i^ men. 
 dl of pre- 
 ii'vices of 
 for them 
 and their 
 
 party to 
 
 Catholic 
 liinon by 
 id by styl- 
 3. In a 
 I cliristiaii 
 lools. To 
 ic schools 
 :^ obtains, 
 er of fact, 
 
 diffei'ent 
 eeii chris- 
 i> fighting 
 ng in the 
 ction \\ith 
 of Argyll 
 istaken — 
 idamenta! 
 ng words : 
 
 if stun. ling 
 lii'ir sciiools 
 This resist- 
 ■s, 1 liflifve, 
 against the 
 ituro to call 
 the colony. 
 
 b aspect of 
 ; partisans 
 Now, with 
 'onscience. 
 
 Then which view siiould give way ,' Is it ' to face the rlifUcultios. The Catholics of the- 
 .onscience that slioidd give way to tlieoiy, or ' whole Dondiuon will follow the matter front 
 is it not rather theory that sliotdd give way | step to step: if necessary thev will take 
 to conscience? It .seems to me that the tlieir case to the Im])erial (Jovernment and 
 answer cannot be doubtful. Allow me, lion, even to the foot <if the Throne ; our children 
 gentlemen, to urge upon your considei'ation and theii' mnthers will send their jiraver's to 
 the lesson that was given in anti(|uity by a our Iteioved l^ueen, who has hunnured the 
 man who still enjoys after centuries an un- thiune imt only as a t^ueen and as awtunan, 
 contested ri'putation for wi.sdom. Solon, the but alsit as ,i ninther. In my humble opin- 
 .Vthenian legislator, was asked one day ^ ion l)oth jiarties are under peculiar obliga- 
 whether the laws that he had given to his tions with re;;ard to these (|uestinns and 
 jief)ple were the best laws that could be their solution. TIkmc is a binding obliga- 
 devi.sed. "I may not have given to the tion upon the administration of the day on 
 Athenians,"' he replied, "the Vtest laws that account of their being in otHce and of the re- 
 could perliaps be made, but T have given sponsibility they are under for the good 
 them tlie best laws that could be aj)plied to i government of tlie countrv. The ( )ppo- 
 them." This is an answer worthy of our ' sition are also ImiuikI and here I l)eg to re 
 consideration. It shows that our duties are mark that 1 ilo not speak in a spirit of an- 
 not to make the ]>eople for the laws, Ijut to tagonism — the < )pposition ;ire bound on ac- 
 make the laws for the ])eople. It reminds count of the initial action of their friends 
 me of a i'ew words of the late Hon. .Vlex. and political associates in Manitoba. In the 
 .Mackenzie, speaking on the .school (juestion. latter ])ro\ince the Keform ]iartv"is the 
 Fie said : | cause of all tiie existing discord and mis 
 
 Tor many years after I held a seat in tli.' F'ailia ' ^'hief. For party advantages thoy have vio- 
 nient of Canaila. I wajieil war against the piin- dated in an unworthy way their' promises 
 riple of separate sehools. \ hoped to lie alile- and ple(lges. As Mr. KisJieV has said, "they 
 
 voiui'f and inexiH'rienced ui polities as I then was' i,,,,.,^ i,,.,,!,. .. ...i^f.-l-r, . <l ,.., A.t ^ .. t 
 
 • . ^ , ,■ t ' . . 11 n 1 1 w iui\e made a mistake : tiiev ouirnt to retrace 
 
 to estalillsli a svsteni lo whleli all would ultl- .i . , , , , .• . 7 •• i i • 
 
 matelyyiehl their" assent. Sir, it was f.iund to lie their steps and do what IS right, and their 
 iuipraetiealile in operation and iinpo.ssihlt' in poll- | political friends here are bound to use their 
 tieal eontigencies. lability and intluence for the repairing of the 
 
 1 am now coming to a close. I have j ruin made by their party in ^fanitoba. 
 brought to your recollection the condition 1 That is their special i'es|ionsibilitv. There 
 
 if the country previous to confederation. I 
 have laid before your eyes the nol)le example 
 gi\en by the fathers of confedei'ation in 
 rising ai)Ove their political divisions for the 
 
 is a common responsibility on both sides in 
 Parliament. The Canadian Parliament, as 
 a whole, is the custodian of the honour and 
 dignitv of the counlrv. \ow, for four vears 
 
 sake of getting their countrv out of the e.v- ! the pul)lic good faith, t.he hoiioiu' of the 
 isting discords, and of rejilacing it in the ' countrv has Ijeen in jeopardy : it is our coiii- 
 jiath of harmony and |)rosperity ; I have mon duty to jiut an end to such a situation. 
 |K)inted out the spirit in which our constitu- 1 Under those circumstances, is it too 
 tion was framed ; T have recalled the jiledges much to cxjiect that both parties should, for 
 that were gi\('n to the minorities in all parts ; once, join hand in hand, and i)rovide an 
 of the Dominion, including Manitolia and ; etpiitable .settlement of our grievances ? Is 
 the \orth-west, for the protection of their it too much to hope for a re])etition of what 
 riL^lits and usages: I have thought it my ; took place at the time of confederation,' 
 duty to call your attention to the unwar- Then the |)arty leaders joined together for 
 ranted way these jiledges have ))een violat- the sake of the hai'mony, prosperity, aiul sta- 
 ed : I have tried to dispel certain misappi'c- bility tif I'ritish institutions. The ditlicul- 
 hensions which s<>em to exist in the minds ties they had to face then ar'e rnei iing us 
 of many. Xow, let me impress upon your to-day, and 1 feel confident that the states- 
 mind the difficulties which ar'e in store for men at pi-esent at the hearl of the two gi'eat 
 us, if we do not settle in an e(piitable and ' parties in this Par'liament would not con 
 constitutional way the bui'tiing and irritat- sent to take an infer'ior rank in intelligence 
 ing (piestion which has been forced into oui' and patriotism ? This time our- pr'csent regi- 
 
 V 
 
 jolitical controversies. 
 Th 
 
 i nie cannot be changed. We have to solvi 
 
 ere is no u 
 
 se of trying to evade our re- our difticulties by the ajiplication of the true 
 ■sponsibility. So(mer or later we will have i principles of the constitution with a tirni. 
 
detorinination of carryinj^ out in all fairness 
 the ruU'K of equity to all as laid down in the 
 debates <in lonfederiitioii in ISti"*, and aecoi'd- 
 inf^ to tilt' sul)s»'(|uent j)led<,'es and aj^'i'ce- 
 uients. In niy humble <»]iinion, the future of 
 the country lies in the j,'ra(lual and normal 
 (]rv('loj)iiient of ooiifcdcratioii under the 
 rules of Justice, toleration, liberty, and fail' 
 play, and in the honest redemption all over 
 the land of such plcdf^es as those outiiiu'd 
 in these words of Sir .lolni Rose : 
 
 We tllisti'il L-aili iitllfl wlicn we (iiltl'icil tllis 
 union; wc fi'lt that imi' lights \mhiIi1 hv smmmI 
 witli you ; and oiif iioiiour ami j^onil faitii and in- 
 ti'jriity arc iii\olvi'<l in and |)leclgi'd to the niain- 
 tfiianl'f lit' tlifui. 
 
 I'nless wo act in the spirit of these utter- 
 ances, unless that trust is faitiifully and 
 honoural)ly kept and carried on in accord- 
 ance with the well known ii^'reements en- 
 tere<i into, ami of the true spirit of the 
 
 constitution, unless the dij^nity of the 
 Crown is maintained by the pronii)t and 
 unequivocal redeiii])tion of the plefl<,'es <,dveii 
 on its behalf, no one can say that the future 
 historians will not have to relate the failure 
 of <'onVe(l,>i-ation, in so far at least as are 
 concerned its ability and power tu check in- 
 justice and to protect the minorities whose 
 riiihts and privilei,'es have been intrusted to 
 the loyalty and generosity of the majority. 
 liut to those who would like to prevent such 
 an unfortunate issue, to those who i,'ener- 
 ously, sincerely and loyally desire to join 
 with us to maintain this confederation, to 
 uphold its integrity, tofosterand increase its 
 prosperity, to maintain peace and unitui 
 betwiMMi all the diHerent classes which com- 
 pose the j)eople of this Dominion, to assure 
 the stability of Canadian and l>ritisli insti 
 tutions on this soil, to those we gladly and 
 cheerfully say : ''Tender us your hands, 
 here are ours." 
 
,' of the 
 Diiipt and 
 1^'cs j,'iv<'ii 
 tlie tutmc 
 lu' t'iiiluic 
 iist as are 
 I check ill- 
 ties whose 
 trusted to 
 majority. 
 '\eiit such 
 ho 1,'ener- 
 I'e to join 
 ration, to 
 iicrease its 
 nd union 
 hicli cfini- 
 , to assure 
 itish insti- 
 ;ladly and 
 ur liands, 
 
 T II ji; 
 
 SENATE DEBATES 
 
 FOURTH SESSION-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT 
 
 SPEECH OF THE HON. R. W. SCOTT 
 
 0\ Till'. 
 
 laniloija and North-west Scliool Questions 
 
 OTTAAVA, APllIL Ini, 1894 
 
 Hon. Mr. SCOTT - Tlie subject referred 
 to in tlie motion made liv the hon. sena- 
 tor from 8t. l>oniface is one wliich lias excited 
 a good deal of attention, not alone in Mani- 
 toba and the North-west, Ijut over all parts 
 of this Dominion. A very considei'al)le 
 body of Her Majesty's subjects feel tliat a 
 right whicli they considered had been etlec- 
 tually secured l»y the British North America 
 Act and by sul)se(juent legislation has been 
 rudely withdrawn and as hon. gentlemen 
 are aware the subject is now being discussed 
 through the public press and is likely to be 
 discussed in aiiotlierbrancJi of the Parliament. 
 The attack on tiie Manitolia separate schitols 
 has been successful. The school system 
 that had been guaranteed by the Act under 
 which Manitoba came into the union has 
 Jjeen swept away. The guardians of the 
 rights of the minority seemed power- 
 less, apparently, to counteract the move- 
 ment. Embohlened by the success there, 
 the same process, to a very nearly equal 
 
 degree, was attempted and ( am soi'iy 
 to say has been jiartially successful in 
 the North-west. Those wiio are opposed 
 to what is Icnowii as the system of 
 separate schools, further (smboldened l)y 
 the repeated successes thai iiavc attended 
 the efforts of those who are so intoierent .is 
 to oppose the existenci' of those schools, 
 have now attacked the citadel in Oiitai'io. 
 As hon. gentlemen are [H'oliably aware, a 
 bill has alr((ady been introduc(!d in the 
 Legislature of Onturio having for its ()l)ject 
 the crippling of the school system in that 
 province so far as the rights of the minority 
 are concei'ned. Under those conditions and 
 circumstances it requires no apology from 
 me if I go at some considerable length into 
 this subject in order that hon. gentlemen who 
 are perhaps not familiar with this (piestion 
 may be fully advised of the present con- 
 ilition of the subject, l^efore doing .so, how- 
 ever, I think it is due to the hon. .Senator 
 from St. lioniface that I slioulil offer him 
 
16 
 
 my nmymtulations on tin- iulniinihlc ,s|it'ec'h I 
 tfiwhifli wt'wert' treiitfcl yt'stfrdaviiftenKMHi. 
 r .1111 siiif it will ht';i(liiiitl('(l that lit* tonk a 
 (iilrii, <lis|pfissi()iia(t' view ct' tlif .subjei't. He 
 iiii^^lit he iianiont'd tor exhiltitinj; suini' de- 
 •.'if'c i)t' heat, cniiiiii:.' as lie did tVoiii thi' pio- 
 \iiK-c when' th<- rights of the miiiniity lia\c 
 lit'fii so flagrantly violatc( I as in the rase, 
 to wliicii he so t'\dly ret'eiTed. There an- a 
 iiunibei' (if points not eoMTcd hy the olisrr- 
 vations and speech ot' that lion. v'lMitienian 
 Vfstei'day. to>Nhieli I >liall t'fcl it my duty 
 lorali the attt-ntioM ot' this Ihmse, sjitistied 
 that tlie ealm jud^nifnt of all fair-minded, 
 men will iS'< vvith me in the eonehision 
 tiiat F have reached, that a yross hreaeh 
 of the constitntion has been perpetrated. As 
 a pi'eliminary it is necessary that wc ^hould , 
 undcistand the condition <if thin;,'s that e.\- ' 
 istt'd anterifir to .ManitohaV coinint; into the 
 I'nion. As luiii. nentlemen are no doulit 
 awai'e, the settlements in the North we.st were 
 laryeiy made in the (irst instance liy French- 
 Canadians and it is on that account, pi'o- 
 liablv. that our Frencli-C'anadian friends 
 froni Ijowei' Canada fed more keenly on the 
 suliject than the minority in any otlier 
 province of t hel>ominion. ( 'ontemporaneous 
 with tlie advent of the missionaries and 
 with tiie civilization of the Indians, schools 
 were estaldished, and we Iiave records at 
 a very earlv date of the existence of those 
 .sciiools, and wiieii [»rd Selkirk s settlers 
 went into tliat count ly they foljowi^d the 
 example of the Catholic missionaries and 
 estahlished denominational sc-hools in con- 
 nection with their churches. So far hack 
 as 1 S'J."i, so marked were the advantaj;es 
 already derived from the education i,d\en 
 l»v the Catholic mi.ssionaries, that on the 
 second day of July the chief factors i.f the 
 Hudsoi» IJav Compan\' assembled in I'ouncil 
 at Yoi'k Factory, jiassed the following; 
 resolution : — 
 
 (ireat lienctit liciii^' cxpt riciucil ti mii tlu- litiic- 
 Vdleiit iiiiil indcfiitijialilc cxirticni of tlic ( 'iitluilic 
 nii.ssion lit [Icil River, in the wclfiuc and iiiiiral ami 
 rclijii'iiis instiuotion of its iimncrous foUowerfs ; and 
 il liciiig (ilisci\cd with iinu'li .satisfaction that tlie 
 iiilincucc (if the inissioii iindcr the clirietidii of the 
 I-tiglit KcM'icnd Uish(i|i of diiiidiiolis has heen uni- 
 formly diructod to llic lii'st interest of Uu! ^<ettle- 
 nient and of tiie country at large, it is resolved 
 That, in order to inark our a|i|ireeiation of such 
 laudalile and disililerestiMl conduct on the part of 
 .said liiission, it lie rec'iiiiiinended to the holiouralile 
 eoniinittee, that a sum of sixty pounds per annum 
 lie yiven towards its support. 
 
 Thiia we find that so early as that period, the 
 
 only sovereij^nty tliat existed in that countiy 
 contributed to the support uf the sclmols. 
 In the year \f<'u I'rofessor Yule Hind who, 
 as lion, gentlemen are awaic, made a very 
 elalmrate report on the condition of thinjrs 
 in .Manitolia and the North west, leported 
 in chajiter H* of his work : 
 
 Hihieation is in a far more advatieeil state in the 
 colony lAssinilxiiai than its isolation and luief 
 career iniylit claim for it under tlic peculiar circuiii- 
 stance> in which the country has lieen so hmi; 
 placed. There are seventeen schools in the settle- 
 ment, J,'eiieially under the sil|iervision ot the mini- 
 sters ot the (UMioinination toMliicli they lieloli.:. 
 
 Further on : 
 
 .Ml of the foregoing,' estalilishnieuts are indepen- 
 dent of the .s^unday schools projierly so-called in 
 connection with the diHireiit ciiurches. 
 
 Then the l>ishop of Ruperts Land reports 
 with reference to their scIkmiI money : 
 
 The souii'cs of income vary much ; ten out of tlio 
 thirteen .schools an coimeeled with the Chuieli 
 .Missionary .'Society. **»-.-• 
 
 In the other schools aliout oiielmlf limy In- paid 
 liy the society, soiiietimes less, and the rest is made 
 up liy the parents of the cliildren. " 
 
 The sum paid liy parents is tifteeii sliillinys a 
 year : when Latin is tauj^'ht eiie ]ioiind. ' "* 
 
 The parochial school connecteil with my own ihurcli 
 is ciitial to most |iaroi-liial schools w iiich ! have 
 kiio\\ n in Kngland. 
 
 ! Then there were two T'resljyterian schools 
 which were thus referred to by the Ke\ . .Mr. 
 j J Hack in a letter : 
 
 i First, then, as to the sciiool : it is entirely sup- 
 
 t ported liy the jieople of the district, or rallitr liy 
 
 tho.se of them who send their children to it. \n\\ 
 
 are aware tiiat we have no piihlic school system in 
 
 ' the colony, and this, like the rest, is therefore 
 
 essentially a denominational sehoiil. 
 
 ; Ther(' is no manner of doubt it is practi- 
 
 ! caliy admitted in the ca.se that went to the 
 Privy Council, that denominational schools 
 
 , ill the fullest and freest acceptation of the 
 
 1 word existed at the time in Manitoba and 
 the Nortli-west. The term "denomina- 
 tional .schools'" is a familiar one to all i;'en- 
 
 1 tlemen who are at all intimate with the 
 early history of Canada; it is a very well 
 known expression to those of us who had 
 seats in the old Parliament of Canada. Since 
 18-11 tiiis (piestion of denominational schools 
 
 I and separate schools has been discussed. 
 
 ; There is no uncertainty about what it means. 
 All those who had to do with the (|Uestioii, 
 and all re{)re.seutative men in both chambers 
 
 j in earlier years thoroughly comprehended 
 what tlie meaning of denurainational and 
 
 I separate schools was. There can be no pos- 
 
17 
 
 siltli" dou})t iipori that subject. Thfii f lir 
 
 next <|U('StiitIl tllilt \Vf nllLtllt t< llsidfl tdiflv 
 
 is, was il, at the tiiiu- tliat Maiiilolfa raiiu' 
 intft the I'ninii. tlutrniiL'lilv iiiiili'istoud tliat 
 those (Iciiniiiiiiatioiial si'liciuls, as tln-V llii-li 
 t'xistt'd. wcif t(i lie inrscrvod ami miilimn'd 
 tor all time to coiiu' ? Was that a part ot' 
 tli<' I'hartcr tliat was Lfivcii to Maintolia .' 
 in order to do that I will jiisi i|iiot<' some 
 oHii'ial documents and I think I will satisfy 
 lion. Lfeiitleinen that so tar as those who 
 may he considerod the |iroinoters of the 
 iiioM'iiient, and so tar as those who were 
 the aetors in ratit'yini,' tin- ;ij.'reenienl wi • 
 coneerned, they themselves leti nothiiii.' 
 undone to carry out what was considered at 
 the time a fair and e(|uital)le settlement of 
 tiie ([uestion in referenc(> to Manitoha and 
 that territory. 
 
 Now, ill lS(i!l, ,i( the time w lien we were 
 airitatiiii; for the union of .Manitoha and the 
 North-west, we had paid our money and 
 were tryiiiy; to net possession of the country. 
 The home (lovernmenl had shown a very 
 larL'c interest in the suhject, as inalltpies- 
 tiiins of that kimh where the riuiits of 
 colonists are concerned, they li,i\c in\ari 
 ahly taken a fntlierly interest iiitlu' matter. 
 We had endeaxoured to hriiii.' about the 
 desired result hy friendly methods Ky the 
 interj)osition of those who had the conhd- 
 ence of the people, and to Ijiini;' it ahfiut 
 hv metlioils of peace. < >n the (ith I )e- 
 cemher. iSlii), Lord (iranville, then Secre- 
 tary for the Colonies, sent a desjialch tu 
 the (iovernor (!eniM'al ad\ isini;' tlic issue of 
 a proi'lamation assuring' the people of the 
 North-west that their rights should lie 
 pieser\ed. T (|iiotc the exact lanL;uaL;e 
 of the proclamation issued Uy Sir .lohn 
 Young : 
 
 l!y llir Miijcstys aiitlinrily 1 <|(i tlicivfoii! 
 ussiu'c yiiii ill uninu with ( 'aiiail:i all \ (ku livil aiid 
 ri'lifiious right.s w ill Kc ii'^pcitcd. 
 
 Now there is no uncertain sound about 
 that. It sjieaks as plainly as the Kiiglish 
 lancuatre can convev an idea. On the 
 strength of that, and with a view of bring- 
 ing aliout an arrangement, delegat<'s were 
 named in the North-west. They werc^ 
 Judge IMack, Father Richot and Alfred 
 Scott. They came to ()ttaua; I perfectly 
 recollect the event niy.self. I was here at 
 the time and remember it. There was 
 very considerable feeling all over the coun- 
 try in consetiuence of the eveiit.s that were 
 
 then transpiring in ^Manitoba, in Vort ruirrv, 
 and a \cry few days after I hey arri\ ed in I »t- 
 tawaScnit and Katlier Kicliot were arrested. 
 
 What was the ellecl of that .' The ho 
 
 (ioverniiient caliled out immediatel\ to ihe 
 <io\ernor (ieni-ral askiui; whether it was 
 witli the sanction of the (loveriimerit of 
 ( 'anada that the delegates were arresictl. This 
 ( iovcriimeiit pr<implly replied that it was 
 not, and they inler\ened and tlii' two dele- 
 gates were dischargiMl. .Iiidi.'e lljack did 
 not come at the time, bu' Kather Uicliot 
 and Scott did. They met Sir (!eo. ('artier 
 and tlie late Sir .lohn .Macdonald. who acted 
 on behalf of the l''ederal < to\ erniiieni, ami 
 they had t heir eonfeiences at ••ttawadaybv 
 day. < >n i he L'.'lrd April Lord (lran\ille 
 feeling anxious about the matter cabled to the 
 ( lo\ eriior ( leneral to ai'cepi the decision of 
 Her Majesty's (Jovernment in all particu- 
 lars of the Settlers |'>ill of lliijhts. referring 
 to the r>ill nf llighis thai the delegates had 
 brcaiglit down and which had been agreed 
 ujton at l-'ort ( laiiy before they left. If any 
 body takes the trouble to analyse this |;ill 
 i of Hights he will tiiid that a larLte portion, 
 referiiiiM to the lanuuage, the schools and 
 till- lands, is cinbodi.d in the Manitoba .\ct, 
 evidently showim,' that those who drew up 
 the Manitolia Act were also familiar with 
 the I'.ill of IJights, The 7th clause in the 
 ' I'lill of liiglits pro\i(|es : 
 
 That till' scli'Hils Im sc|iaralc ainllliat the |iuIp- 
 lii' iiKiiu-y for silicMil.s 111' clistiiKutcil aiiiiniL' tju' 
 ijiltciciit O'liKieiis ilt'iKiiiiinal iiiiis in |iii>|M>i'tiiin tu 
 
 ; tlicir respective pii|)iilatiiiiis accipriJiiiL: to llic sy.s- 
 
 j Iclil iif till' pI'KVilHf lit (jluclicr. 
 
 That was the system then in existence in 
 
 the [iroxince. It was only natmal, as they 
 
 j iiiul lived in peace and harmony among 
 
 ' theinsehes, and as there never had been any 
 
 disagreement among th" diirerenl churches, 
 
 that they should desire to jierpetuate tliat 
 
 kind of friiternal feeling, and so that section 
 
 formed one of the clauses of the Uill of I lights. 
 
 The I (ith clause piovidcst hat the Knglish and 
 
 l''rench languages shall be used in the legisla- 
 
 ! ture aiul the c(airts, and that the Acts of the 
 
 legislature shall be published in both langu- 
 
 ' lines. Tiie laiigua<'e of the .Manitoba .\ct 
 
 I on thiit .subject is almost identicalwiththat of 
 
 the i'.ill of Hights, s|i,,wiiig that the J{ill of 
 
 Uiglils was an imi)ortant factor in those 
 
 negfitiations. Now tho.se gentlemen were 
 
 I here during the month of April, and in that 
 
 j month the conferences to.ik place. Un May 
 
18 
 
 I 
 
 .'?nl, H ciiUlcjiram from tlif (iovcinur Ooii- 
 na! to Kuril (ininvilU' stilted : 
 
 Xog<»iiiitinii.s « itli (lilcniitcs cliiscil .iiitisfiietorily. 
 
 Oil receipt ut' tliat, l.onl ( Iriiiivillc sent 
 tlie t'lilliiwiiii,' (lespatcli : 
 
 I .iu\ fil.i'l ti) IciUli lliiit the p'M.cediligs ailoptcil 
 iiKiiiii.st tilt; \{vY. Ml'. Kielint iiiul Mr. .>>(i)tt ucie 
 Jiioiiiptly ilispDseil (pf :iiicl iiiit iciieurd. iiliil I take 
 tlii> iippiiiiiiiiity >'f e\)ir(M.sim.' the siiti.-*fiietiiiii w ith 
 
 whiih I liave leilllieil from your teh•(^'rlllll lit' .'till 
 iiist. tlial tlie Ciuiiiiliiin ( iiivtiiilneiit and the lU'Ie- 
 eiiles hiive eoiiie tii illl imder.sldllilillK iix to tile 
 telliis (111 uhieli ihe Mt'tth'iiient of llie Ked llivel 
 8ll<iuhl he admitted into the I )oiiui)ioll. 
 
 Can aiiytliini;- l^e iiiurc s|)ecilic and de- 
 finite .' 1 1 is clear that tlic Imperial ( Gov- 
 ernment tniderstoodtlie situation tliorou^rlily. 
 'I'lie matter was discussed liy the puhlii- 
 press. 1 know there was a j^reat deal of 
 liostility shown because tlie < luv»!rnment had 
 rec()i,'ni/ed those irentlenien as delejfales. 
 Thev thiiuixht it was hetter to do so with a 
 view to aL'(|uirinir that territory in a peace- 
 able way, and eiuleavouiinii to south the 
 aniino«itv of people that had been raised );y 
 other circumstances. Some papeis com 
 meiited on it in an unfriendly manner. The 
 ^7(/ Ac of -May 7th has this e<litorial on the 
 .suliject, commeiitini; on the fact of the dele- 
 gates lieinu; listened to at <>tta\\a ; 
 
 The eoll^litutioll iiioposed for Miuiitolia must evi- 
 <h'iilly liave heeii .sulmiitted to Messrs. I'.lai k, j-tieliot 
 ■uid Scott, liefore coming,' hefore Parliament at 
 all ; as they uraeiously iipjiroved, no furtheltiouhle 
 was antioijiated. 
 
 Tliat was before the liill was considered in 
 the House of Coiiimons. ( )n oth .May Karl I 
 (iranville read a teleirrani in tin; House of ' 
 Lords, after the introduction of the l>ill— .sol 
 anxious was the (iovernment to feel that j 
 thev had the ajiproval of the Imperial (!ov-i 
 ernmeiit. and knowing the interest they took 
 in the friendly and etpiitable solution of the 
 question. The despatch was from Sir Francis 
 Hincks to Sir John Hose, and was as fol- 
 lows : 
 
 Ruperts Piill passing (loinmons, concurred in hy 
 delegates anil ('aiiailiaii party in fact hy all in 
 territory. 
 
 That was the conclusion. The dele- 
 gates had Hnished the conference laul 
 the bill was before the House of 
 Comnions, and it was then going through. 
 That was on 'M'd of 31ay. It came uj) for its 
 second reading on the 10th May. 1 iptote 
 from the Parliamentary Deljates of 1870 : 
 
 After HL'Verill clauses of the hill hud heen diMcllN- 
 s»'d ami voted on Mv. ( )liver moved that theeduca 
 tional clause he struck out. 
 
 Hon .Mr. <'M.\r\K.\l' hoped the aniendnioiit 
 would not he carried. It was desirahle to protect 
 the Miinoiity in .Nhmitolia troni the ^'I'eat evil of 
 leliiiioiis dissensions on education. '{"here could lie 
 no hetter model to fillow in that case than the 
 L'nioii Act, which ^ave full protection to minori- 
 tiiH. It was impossihle to say who would form a 
 majority there, I'rotestantM or CatliolicH. If the 
 population were to come from o\ei' the .sea.s, then 
 the I'rotestants would he in a majority. If as hail 
 heen asserted. .Manitoha «as to he a French pi'e- 
 .serve, the t'atholics would he a majority. He did 
 not care which, hecause he desired only to .see the 
 new province freed fiom disriissions, which had 
 done so miii'h injuiy in the old pro\iiieesof Can 
 ada. They |Mesenteil a prohlem to the whole 
 world, and the ipiesiion was, could not two Chris- 
 tian hollies, almost ei|uallv lialauced, he held to- 
 ;:ethei- u in lei I he I !l it ish Coiisl il ut ion. He helieved 
 that the plolih ui roiild he worked out successfully. 
 
 Now Mr. .Macdougiill was an opponent and 
 had been an opponent of separate schools all 
 his life. He had o|)posed the separate school 
 ISill which was carried by myself in iSti.J. 
 He was opposed to the principle of the bill, 
 but voted for it on the third reading, Mr 
 M.'icdougall said : 
 
 The ell'eit of the clause if not struck out Would 
 he to ti\ laws which the Local Legislat lire could 
 not alter in l he future. 
 
 Mr. Macdougall w.is one of the gentle- 
 men engaged in the drafting of the Mritish 
 North America Act ; he had attended the 
 con\entioii .it London and (Quebec, anci was 
 pei'fcctly faii'iliar with every dau.se of it. 
 ^Ir. .Macdougall knew what the eflect 
 would be, and the House knew it. 
 They did not vote on an uncertainty ; they 
 voted with a jierfect knowledge that if this 
 'motion were rejected, then for all time to 
 ! come — except through the inteiMMition of 
 'the provinces and the Imperial (Jovernment 
 "the separate schools, both Protestant and 
 J Catholic, would continue to exist in that 
 I jirovince. Mr. Macdougall advised that it 
 should be struck out ; he thought it better 
 to go to the Provincial Legislature and let 
 I them settle it. That was liis view : 
 
 I Sir ( ieorge Cai-tiei referred to the manlier in 
 I which the Red River country had heen settled, and 
 I Ki'iintsof land which had heen made to the clergy 
 ; for the imr))oses of education. 
 
 I Mr. Mackenzie was prepared to leave the 
 I matter to be settled exclusively by the local 
 \ legislatures, and h'^ thought it better it 
 I should be relegated to them. Mr. Macken- 
 I zie lived long enough to feel that his view 
 
 Kt 
 
1!« 
 
 Mr 
 
 pxprpsst'd (in tliat (icnisimi whm wioii;^. Tie 
 sul»sf([ut'iitly luliiiittfd ill l'uiliHiiit.'ut, nn 
 sevfi'iil riccasimis, tlifit it was entirely a 
 mistake. Wlicii in tin- I'liiliuint'iif of Can 
 Hila, lie liiitl iilwfiysojijiust'd scpaiati' schools; 
 Imt ill after vt'ais lie sii|)|iort*Ml that system 
 as Itcst for a mixed coiniminity like ours. 
 However, tin* i|iiestioii was delialed, and no 
 lanj,'uai.'e could jiut it more tersely than .Mr. 
 .Macdoiiijall I aits it : 
 
 It Oli\ci's iiiitiioii wiis lint striiik out, tlic 
 ftl'cii wiiiilil lie III li\ liw.* wliiili the local Ic^^i.sla- 
 tiii't'H could iioi ,'iltcr ill tlic I'litiirc. 
 
 A vote was taken, and eii,'hty-tliree voted 
 af^ainst it and thirty four for it ; the major- 
 ity was more than doulile, and it is yratify- 
 i;; to feel that there was a majority of the 
 x^rotestaiits in the House of ("oinmons o|i- 
 posed to .Mr. ()livers proposition to deprive 
 Manitolffi of its schools. ft cannot lie said 
 that it was imposed on .Manitoba hy a I^ower 
 Canadian vote, .Vmoni,' the Protestants wlio 
 \oted for it were Archihald, Iionn ii. lUirton, 
 (.'ameron (adistiniiuiHlied <;entleman who was 
 .It one time a (!rand .Master of an important 
 order, hut whose prejudice ne\fr carried him 
 so far as to refuse to recoj^ni/e the rights 
 of the minority). Campliell, t'arlin;,', (Jihhs, 
 Hincks, Pope, Shaiiley, Tiliey and others. 
 Now the.se gentlemen knew wiiat they were 
 votin;^ for. My lion, friend, the leader 
 of the House, when he ea.st his vote, 
 must have known perfectly well what 
 he was voting ai^ainst. There was not 
 the least uncertainty ahout it. That was 
 theonlv vote taken upon it and when the I5ill 
 eaine up ayaiii it was allowed to pass un- 
 challentied in the House and then it came 
 up to the Senate. Now the .Senate discus- 
 ■sed several clauses of the bill. They did 
 not, however, interfere with that clause ; 
 they took no \t)te on it, imt allowed it to 
 pass, .so that this House unanimously ap- 
 proved of the clause, because public atten- 
 tion had been called to it : it was discussed 
 in the newspapers and the minority's rights 
 were not challenged there. The papers dis- 
 cussed it. I do not Hnd any hostile position 
 taken by any of the papers. The Toronto 
 Glolie, which now takes a very strong attitude 
 on the subject, had an article 10 days after, 
 calling attention to the educational clause. 
 The House ro.se a few days after the Hill 
 passed, I think the 12tli May, and in giving a 
 resume of the business of the session the (r/ohe 
 of May 23rd has the following observationsin 
 
 reference to the edur.»tional clause, put in 
 language wliich means the same, iiut which 
 is more convincing from tiie fact that it 
 differs veriiallv from those in the .\ct 
 itself : 
 
 It is .•pt'iiiiily I'liai'ti'cl that im hiw -.hall Kc passcil 
 hy llic I'loviiuial LryiHlat::ii' ilijuiloiiHly an'fcliiin 
 ill any way cli'iioiiiiiiatioiml .schools, ( 'at liolii' ur 
 I'loti'st tilt. .\n appeal ii^aiii.sl any ciliicatioiial 
 art that infi'iiii.;*'M iipiiii this iHiivisti u ill lie to the 
 j ( iovfiiior ill Cimniil, ami it powers are rei|uii'ei| to 
 ' enforce his ileeisioii, the i'ai'liaiiieiit of t'anaila miiy 
 lie iinoked to ciiiiipel illle i iinpli.iiii'e liy an act foi 
 the purpose. 
 
 That is what the (•/tili> saiil ; put it in 
 plain Knglish. There is no pi-otest against 
 it, no declaration that the establishment of 
 (letioniinatiniial schools is a violation of the 
 rights of liritish subjects. .Vll partiesai -epted 
 it. Now in order to show that all ]iarties foi- 
 years afterwanis considered the case settled 
 beyonil all ipiestion, I will call attention to 
 some remarkable utteiaiices. In I ST-") we 
 iiad the North-west Territories jiill, under 
 which sejiarate schools were (established there 
 before us in this chamber. I had charge of 
 it. Hefereiice was made in that debate to 
 the a<lvantage of .settling this ipiestion. and 
 
 [ we pointc'l to the instance of our dealing 
 with the (piestioii so far as .Manitoba was 
 concerned, and congratulated ourselves that 
 it never could arise in Manitolia, that we 
 had settled it so solidly, so sacredly and so 
 perfectly that it could not cause trouble 
 
 'there. [ will (piote fi'oiii the speech of the 
 lion, member from Hichnioiid first. Speak- 
 ing of the powers of Parliament, Mr. Miller 
 said : 
 
 j I'ariiaiiieiit had an uiidoiiliteil i i^ht under these 
 
 I cil'iiimstaiues to make siuh |)rovisi(iii.s le^^aidiiij; 
 
 . the (|iie.stioii of education, or any other (|uestioii, 
 
 I for tills new territory, as in its wisdom it tlioii^dit 
 
 lit.'st for the future peace and widl lieiii;,' of the 
 
 country, 'file ilitiiiiilties they iiail alle.idy en- 
 
 co\iiitere<l ill tile old pro\ iiues in regard to ediica- 
 
 tion should he a warning.' In them to prevent similar 
 
 : trouliles arising; in the provinces ihey hope.', to .see 
 
 : s|)riiic up ill the North west. This policy had lieeii 
 
 1 ap|ilied to .Maiiitoha. and who can deny that that 
 
 j course had heeli wise, and would save that ))id- 
 
 ! viiue from all the iliscord and hittiM' agitation 
 
 ! throughout \\ liicli the older provinces were either 
 
 j passing or had already pas.sed. It was iiiifoituiiate 
 
 ! that the Act of Union had not settled the education- 
 
 j al rights of all the old provinces on a just and 
 
 ' lilieral hasis, as had hei'ii ilone in Ontario and 
 
 I t^iiehec. 
 
 liemeraber this was only three or four 
 years after we had settled the Manitoba 
 ijuestiou. We had some little time before 
 
Im'cii (lisi'ussiim tilt) Nrw I >i uii'^w iik SiIkh-I 
 Act, 1111(1 tli(> i|iif>tiiiii liail iilsii ciuiiiiimI up 
 with it'tVifiici) III I'liiici' Ivlwiifd Isldiiil 
 w lu'Ii tluil |il'iiviti<f \Nils iniiiitl;; illtd tin- 
 I Minn, 'I'lliiSf It't'tM'Clli't'N tlirn'tulf .sIloW 
 liliist i'()iii'lu.-<i\ )'lv the Utlt'li;iii^'i'(l ii|iiiii(iti 
 ot I lie Nsliitlf |)uiiiiiiii)ii. Nil iiiuii tiriisc 
 til jinitcst ii;,'Hiiist it. All .u'ccjitpd it 
 us riiinhisiM'. fi.'i iiliMihiti' iiiid us i'iim|ilfii'. 
 Nii'liiiii.' i-iiiild ill- iniii'o sii. Nil l)iiij,'uu;,'f 
 (iiiiid ill' t'laiiH'd to 1,'iM' stri»ii;;('f rx|)ri'ssiiiri 
 fii tlif wislii's lit' I'ai'liaiiii'Mt, iiiiii tu tin- 
 \i('\v-> lit' tiiDsr \\iiii wi'iT till' I'iiii't' arlni's ill 
 tiiis iiKi-iMMiii'tit, W'lirn wr dt-alt witli that 
 Nnrtiiwrst i|llr>.| intl ill I S"-"), t iu'li' Was a 
 ;.'iMid deal i>t t'rriiiiy, rint in tile Niii'th-wi-st, 
 l)iit ill s'liiif ri'iiiiitc parts ut' ihr I >iiiiiiiiitiii 
 wiicii- ihi'v tiiiiiid t'aiilt with tiiis I'aiiiaiiii'iit 
 t'lir di'aliiii; witli thr i(iii'stiiiii, and it was 
 lirouj,'lit iiji in thr Senate <in twu nr ihirr 
 (ii-rasiniis. [t uas un a pi'titimi t'lmn New 
 Unmswick. f iirliexc. and .a drliati- arnse as 
 tn ulial ui' iiad dmii' in thi- past in si'ttnii;^ 
 I hi' i{iirstiiin in Manituiia and the Niutli- 
 west 'rcrritciiies, The late Senator ( liianl. 
 Ill i S7ti, said : 
 
 If llicri- WIIH iillStllillU ill t III' hill tlial .llViil ili'il 
 Milist'iirtliHi to llif |ii(i|iU' lit ill.' 'I'll I ilipiii's, it was 
 that |ii'in isiiiii. 'I'liry IiikI in Maiiitulia in iln 
 liattic on this i|iit'stiiiii, hut tliry liml ln'i'ii riialili'<| 
 tn I'stalilisli a liasis wliii-li wiiulil iln avsay «itli tlir 
 ilitliiiillii'> tliat i\isti''| ill liic ut Ik r ]iari> uf tjjr 
 
 I liiliiiliinll. 
 
 Mr. Miller likeuther lion, u'entlellien. lie- 
 lii'M'd that it was settled irre\ ncalily that 
 it iiiiilil lint arise airtiiii : that, as Mr. .Mar- 
 dou;,'all pithily put it. th" Ineal iwe^islatun's 
 had nnthiii^' innre tn dn with it : that it' 
 they did, there was an appeal tn the (Jiis- 
 erimr ill (,'nmiiil. I am imt aw ;ire that there 
 was aiiv aLdtatinii jireiediii^ this act nt' 
 the Maiiitnha Li'Liislat lire. The inleresiinj; 
 dis.sertatinii uiveii us hythe linn, inemlier 
 fi'niii St. IJniiifaee was news tn me as tn the 
 trickery and fraud resorted tn in cnnnectinn 
 with the fnundat inn nf this innvement. it 
 is ^.'I'eatly tn he r(>L'retted, and the parties tn 
 it will niie day lia\e cause to rei^'ret their 
 cniiduct. They will nnt eiiinv iieariii"' thnse 
 
 t, il t' r^ 
 
 wnrds, which were uttered l.SOO years aj^o : 
 •' lilessed are the |ieaceiiiakers t'nr theirs is 
 the kingihini nt lieaM'ii. ' Those who sow 
 fliscord will verily reap their reward. There 
 arc; intolerant men in all churches, Catlmlir 
 ii.s well as Protestant. It is our duty, and 
 it is the duty of every man who lo\cs his 
 country and his fellow men, to set his face 
 
 u;{iiiiist iiiov(>in»>ntH nf tliiit kiiut. ThJH 
 ciiiiiilry in liroiMl ♦Mioii;{h foruilof iistoenjoy 
 life to the fullest extent. We iiii;-ht, in 
 these inatteis which are dear to us. all to 
 hear and forlieaf, where we cannot possiljly 
 ai^'lee. If we inllld au'lee on this iplestioli 
 
 of relij;ion in the schools, I, for one, would 
 m> in heartily fur it, and ha\e our cliildreii 
 educated |ii<,'ethi'i', imt we know it is impos- 
 sihle. It has liecii tried ii\ er and over a;,'ain 
 anil failed. Is it not lietter that we should 
 educate our children in the \.iriiius religious 
 professions of this cniinlry, and make them 
 good citizens .' .\11 our christian ehurelies 
 teach reli;,'ioii and morality teach men to 
 lie lietter. is not a pious Cathiilic Wetter 
 than a had ('allmlic ! .\nd so it is with nil 
 the deiinminat inns. (Alaiiyjh.) .My linn, 
 cnlleaiiiie frnm liideau division treats the 
 ipiestiiin with levity. I think it is a .serious 
 ipiestion, atl'ecliiiL; not only the interests nf 
 our own pnpulatinii, hut the interests i>t' 
 penple in all lands. The trend nf piiiilic 
 npininii in all civili/ed countries is 
 towards Christian educition. i come now 
 to tlie .Maiiitolia .\ct. Let us see whether 
 •t carried out the agreement that was dis- 
 cussed liy the delei^ates ;ind the inemliers of 
 till' Canadian ( ioveinment. 'i'lic .Manitnlia 
 Act itself reads in this way : 
 
 ill ami f.ir ilie jii nviiic e, tin- li-^'islattirc may i'\- 
 j iliisivi'ly make !av\ s in relaticiii tn eihicatimi. mi1»- 
 
 jiMi ailil acnirilill',' tn tlir fnllnvv in;.' |irn\ isiulis : 
 
 il.l Nnlhiiii.' ill aliy siicii lau sliall pn'iuilici.illy 
 atli'ct any i i^'lit nr |iii\ ilej.'!' with ics|ii'cl tn ilciin 
 miiialiniial sclmni.s wjiiili any class nt |ii'i'siiiis liuvc 
 liy l:iu nr |irartirc ill till' |iln\ iiii'i' at till' llllinii. 
 
 Nnw, if We cniue to the cnrrespoiidiny 
 section of the I'.ritish North .Xmerica Act, 
 il reads wonl for word like that, except 
 tiie intrnihn'tinn nf the vvnrd ''practice ' 
 in the .Maiiilolia .\ct. Nnw, vvhv was that, 
 'wind iiil induced thei-e ? Was it tint tn meet 
 ' the special cnnditiniis which existed in the 
 lied liiver settlement .' We all kimw that 
 there was no l,iw e.xislin;!,' in that country 
 
 except the 1,IW of the Hudson I'lUV Cnnip.lllV, 
 
 which was not a remniii/ed one, not liav inn; 
 
 I been enacted hy the jieojile's representatives 
 iisse'iihled in lenislatiire, and therefore there 
 was no law under which scl Is were estah- 
 
 : lished— they existed by practice. The word 
 does not occur anywliere else. The word 
 " practice," I think, was lirouj,dit out in 
 a discussion with renard to the New 
 
 ; Brunswick .schnnls. It cninmenced hack 
 
 I in 1809, and I find that word u.sed 
 
21 
 
 in fi s|ici'cli nt" tin- late Mr. Jii.stici' (Jit-v wiis tlic only clt'rii'iil gt'ntN'rniiii wlm wus 
 Nvliu 1 iiiiH- liitiii till' |iiu\iii(f fit' Nfw iircsriii III! liny mention ul tlif tiiiiiiih>{ ot' 
 I'.l llIlsNsick. \\'*- klinw lliiit <|<-ll<iiiiiiiiitiitilill tllf cluuso.x. I IiikI ciicullll's M'llt nut tit tlu" 
 >.rlnMi|>, hiiil Imtii in t'xistriMi' ill N'fw Mniiis tni^tffs all over ( »iitarin a>kiii;,' t'ny mh;- 
 wii'k, ill sonic parts ut' it \>\ pi ai lire, Imt imt ;,'fsliiinsaii(| ail\ inwiili a \ itw In niakiiiu: tlir 
 \■|•|•l>ii\\\/^•^\ \)\ law, iiiiil rniiM-iiiifiitly tin- law iiii>r<> wiirkalilr. |)r. liyt'ison ull'cii'tl 
 Parlianifiil i>\' this ruiinliy, iIhmikIi tlicy H" inipctliiiiml. lait iIiimi- was a slrttnj; t't-i'l- 
 N\i<iil(l Iia\ f likt'd Ik cany uiiI tln' views nt' iiiu prrvailiiiu' "illi ( 'allinlic^ that In- was 
 tin- JU'dpli', wi'ic iinalili' tu (In snortnyive llnstilc In llic .\it. I'l-nplc liflicv fil 
 
 any it'lii't'al till' I iiiii'. This wnnl " praftjct!" lliat lie was aiwa\s ilnidcdly against 
 was intrniliicril llitic. Ii was <'\i(|ciitly st-paralf *t|innU. I am imt awaii' tliat, 
 "•nii-iili'iril tlic iiinsi siiitalilc wmil iindcr tlit' at'lcr tliis Act was pa>>>ci|. there \> as a siii;{h' 
 (;iiciiiii>laiices. In i he I'.rilish N'mlh Am- appeal iimlcr it. NN'e had iinl in llmse days 
 erica Act there i> an a|ipeal to tln' I'livy | a Minister nt lldiicalinii, hiit we had |)r. 
 ( 'niiiicil t'rniii any act aH'cclinulhe rights nt' Uyi'isnii. the chief siiperintenileni nt' cdii- 
 the I'miestant and ('atlii>lic niinnrities. , calinn, and I drew up. his clause: 
 l';\en thai wasclianyd in llie Manilnha Ai-t. i 
 
 I'urhainelll Mi.ifl.. il .....p...i H;,. '!"!,.. ,n,i 11 '"' 'lie cvcul cf ;illV Wlsumv.MMCIlt lietW-en 
 
 lliaile It 
 
 llnre 
 
 ^1 ilic. Theappeali. "' ""■ ,';;'' ,. , ,. , , , 
 
 1 11 I- 1 i. ,' 1 • ,1 -I triisliT.-. (il Kiiiii.ni ( .illiiilii sijiiii.tlc srliiHils Mini 
 
 shall he In Ihe ( .nv erimr ( .ene.al in t nnncll I„.,,|,„pcliMl.nil.Ml, et ,u,Mni..n..l Is..,, ..tlier 
 
 trnin any ad nr decisinn nt the le;;is|atlire nt' ; ii<'i|iiil .mtlini iljcM. tlic case ill iliNpiitc simll lit- 
 
 the prn\ ince. 'I'hese wnrijs iln lint ocelli' ill 
 the I'.lilisli Nnrlh America Act. Nnnllier 
 pi'nvinic that, came in had I Imsc t'nur unrds 
 intmdticcd in iheir ('misl ii nt innal Ad. 'I'he\ 
 ale peculiar tn .Manilnlia .ilniie, prn\ in^ most 
 
 li'Iri li'il III till I'lillltiilili' ill liilliiliii'lil lit ill*' chief 
 Nll|ii I'iiih'liili'lll III I'll lliM I lull III t'|i|ii'r ( 'ali.iila, Mil 1 1 
 
 jcit. lU'V lllJH'll'SS, 1(1 lIlC MpJM'lll 111 lIlC I illM'I'IIUl 
 
 ill ('iimiiii. wliiiM' iiw.iiil ^IimII lie liiiiil in ;(|| I'li^es, 
 There is wlieie the idc.t i-. I;ikcii fill an 
 
 cniichisively that I here uas a jealmis resolvt^ appeal as prnvidcd in I he III itisji Xmlh .\in 
 1)11 ihe part nt' the t'l.iincrs nt' the .\ct al the erica Aft. It was only In lie t'nund in llii- 
 lime that I lierc >iinnlil he a direci appeal In particular Act audit was simpl\ lia>i'd nn 
 I he ( in\ einnr ( 'cneral in ('niincii trninanv thai idea ihal tlicchiet' siipcrinfendcnl vvas 
 hn^l ile decisinns I hal li|e\' were lint In lie lint t'rielidly In the separate >chniil sxsti'lll, 
 t'nrced inin ihe cntiris ihal the remedy was wliicii was a mistake, hecau^e he was since 
 111 lie slinrt and ipiick. Tlmse wnrds are | rely aiixinus tn dn what was reallv fair to 
 very uniisiial. How did they occur' I make the law wnikahlc. That is w here tin- 
 think I kiinw snmethinn nt' tlie history ot' appeal comes in. ll due- nut e\isi anywhere 
 1 hell I, inasmuch as I lie ori;iinai w'ord.s were in- else. 1 in tended t lie appeal In he prompt and 
 Iriiihici'd inan Act lliaf I dratted in t lie year direct. It \vastlioui,d.l tliet loveiiinrint 'mincil 
 1 Nfi:.' or 1 S().".. r hold in my hand the oriijinal would he ihe t'airesi trihunal and lliey would 
 Ad nf iSt).'! with tile prim of .Messrs. I )e.s- dispose nt' it al mice. This .M.initnha case 
 barats and Cameniii who were ihen the; went tn our nw n Supreme Cnurt. The late 
 (Queen's printer.s. The cont'erence.s f had in C'hiet' .luslicc Kitcliie and .Mr. Justici' Pat- 
 dravviin; up the Separate Scliools Act in old tersnii i^ave written judj;nieiits upon it. 
 Canada in 18(il, iSti'Jand 1S().'{. were cliietly . That court was unaniiiinus in rey;ard tn the 
 with |)i'. Hyersnii. There vva.s not on any correct interinelation of the ad. Neither 
 (icca>inii any clerical intert'ereiice. It has of tiinse yenllemeii can he accused nt' having 
 been recently stated that when Parliament (.'atlinlic prncliv ii ies, nr beini; desirous to 
 .sat at t^uebec, the .Xrchbisliop of IJiiebec in- .strain the law witii a v iew to help tlie miiior- 
 terfered. I deny that. The conferences ity. Their jud^'inent was dear, terse and 
 were held with I >r. Jlyerson in the library, positive and ijiveii without any hesitation, 
 and it is due to his memory to say that I They knew the condition of tliinjf.s e.xisting 
 found him always ready to meet tiie wishes there, knew what denominalinnal schnols 
 of the miiinrity that he exhibited no pre- , meant, becau.se they were cnnvei'sant with 
 judice i)v bigotry, that had larger coiice.ssion.s the history of this country. Unfortunately 
 Ixien sought for. Dr. Piverson would not that coui't was not a tinal one; otherwise 
 have thrown any obstacle in the way. this agitation that has arisen over this new 
 There was only one occasion when a clerical ; Act in the North-west, that has now 
 gentleman was pre.sent— the Rev. Mr. INfac- 1 become law, and the agitation in Ont- 
 donald, of Kingston, vicar general — -and he | ario, would not have occurred. It is all 
 
(lup to tlie unfortunate decision of the Mani- 
 toba case Ity the Privy Council, Hetween 
 ISf).'? and IS'.KI lion, gentlemen know 
 very well tliat there was no agitation 
 in this country in i-efeienee > the school 
 <luestion — none whatexer. We all got on 
 amicably together. 
 
 Hon. .^Ir POWER -There was the New 
 
 lirunswick (juestinii f 
 
 Hon. Mr. SC< 'TT — Tarn .sjieaking of the 
 old provinces of Canada. In New Brunswick 
 there was an agitation and there was also 
 one in Prince Kdward Isluid. In the latter 
 jii'ovin( ' the minority claimed, when they 
 came into coniedei'at ion, that fienominational 
 scho(»ls were in existence there. So they 
 were, but not by force of law. T had to con- 
 sider the (juestion in conjunction with the 
 then Minister of Justice. I was in the govern- 
 ment at the time. They sent up their dele- 
 gates here, and I jiointed out to them that 
 theycameiiiundei' the Pritish North America 
 Act, which makes no j)rovisionfor the rights 
 of a minority except they existed under the 
 law of the legislature before the union. I 
 saiil to them : " You are not in the position 
 of ]Manitol)a. because there the schools in ex- 
 istence by i)ractice aiv pei'mitted, but in 
 Prince Kdward Island and Pritish Columbia 
 that is not the case. Those special pro- 
 visions are only to be fouml in the Manitoba 
 chai'ter." and so we had to tell the delegates 
 fiom Prince Kdward Island that their case 
 could not be considered. They tli()ught it a 
 \,.iy great giii^vance, because a bill which 
 oppressed them very nuich had been intro- 
 duced and passed there. A\'e told them they 
 would have to bear it aiul hope for a better 
 condition of things. I believe since then a 
 better' condition of things has arisen - that 
 th. • - - - - ' - - 
 
 Privy Council, which I think was exceed- 
 ingly unfortunate. There is a very strong 
 feeling that the judgment of the Pri\y 
 Council is manifestly unfair, that the gentle- 
 men who rendered it did not thoroughly 
 com{)rehend the question — that they either 
 did not take the ti'ouble to look into it care- 
 fully, or the subject was so entirely fresh 
 and new to them that they did not com- 
 prehend it, and they rendered a judg- 
 ment contrary to thf facts. It is illogical 
 on the face of it, and has caused great, 
 hardship to the minority in Manitoba, and 
 it has shocked the sensibilities of the 
 Catholics of this Dominion. I think it is 
 exceedingly unfortunate that there should 
 still be an ajipeal to the Privy Council. 
 When we were framing the Supreme Court 
 Act it was pointed out that we could not 
 cut off that appeiil — that it was an appeal 
 to the Sovereign which had existed from 
 time innnemorial. and that all subjects of 
 the Crown had the right. Veiy well : if it 
 was an appeal to the Sovereign, I would 
 ; cheerfully support and maintain it. I am 
 satisfied that had our beloved Sovereign 
 read all the jiapers bearing on the case her 
 conclusion would have been entirely different 
 from that of the Judicial Committee of the 
 Pi'ivy Council. In early times, in Saxon 
 days, before the Noi'man con(|Uest, appeals 
 from the sul)jects of the Crown lay direct 
 to the Sovereign personally. The Sovereign 
 held the court— it was the final appeal, and 
 I was a right that all were supposed to 
 enjoy : but in modern times such an appeal 
 does not exist — the judicial connnittee is 
 no more than any other court, and there- 
 fore it is absurd for us to appeal to the 
 Privy Council. As a mattei' of fact, the 
 decisions of that court have been most un- 
 satisfactory, not in this matter alone, but 
 he law passed in ISTI or 1S75 was found generally. The greatest uncertainty pre- 
 to be too stringent and aifected the miiu)rity vails. They are gentlemen who cannot be 
 there too seriously, jiiul I think the legisla- expected to take an intei'cst in our affairs, 
 ture moditied it, l)ul the l-'ederal .luthoi'ities They know very little of the circumstances 
 could give them no relief for the very reason 
 that tlu^-e was no jirovision for it in the 
 Ib'itish Xorth .America Act. Had it been 
 known that such conditions existed in Prince 
 Kdwat'd Island, no doubt it would have been 
 arranged before the islands came into con- 
 federation. Had the educatifinal clause in 
 the Pi'ince Kdward Island charter been 
 simihir to the Manitoba charter, the rights 
 of the minority would have been pro- 
 tected. The IManitolia ca.se went to the 
 
 of our country, aiul they have been guided, 
 evidently, more by I'nited States precedents 
 than by colonial ])rt^cedents. They have 
 gone on the principle that the sovereign 
 power lay with the provinces and not with 
 the Dominion. We know how the dated 
 States Government was formed —that the 
 states came tttgether and formed a federal 
 government, to which they gave up only a part 
 of their sovereignty. Whatever they gave 
 up to the centi'al government became com- 
 
23 
 
 iiion to fill. Rut in Canada it was just the 
 reverse. We, under a written eonstitution. 
 delegated to tlie several provinces certain 
 specific powers. The residuum, whatever it 
 may be, remains with the central power. If 
 you take the decisions of tin- Privy Council 
 during the last ten or fifteen years, you will 
 find that in all cases it has l)een sustaining 
 provincial rights--that has been the curi-ent 
 o£ their decisions — evidently guided by 
 United States precedents and authorities, 
 not certainly interpreting the Canadian con- 
 stitution truly, because under our constitu- 
 tion the provinces possess only what is given 
 to them. Our constitution is definite and 
 clear. When this matter was before the 
 Privy Council, they admitted all the facts 
 just as T have given tliem to you. They 
 tersely narrate the condition of things in 
 Manitoba. T have now the judgment of the 
 Privy Council before me. They refer to the 
 views of the several judges of oui' coui't, 
 They state : 
 
 Kitt'llie, ('. .1,, liclil tliiit iis ('iitliiilii.'.s c(jiilil not 
 I'onsoieiitioiisly ciiiitiniu' to iiviiil tlu'iiisflvcs of tile 
 jiiililic sfliools iis CiU rieil on under tlie .system es- 
 tublislied l>y the I'uldie Sehools Act, "iHftO, the 
 etfect of that net was to ileprive tlieiii of imy fur- 
 thei' lieneticiiil use of tlie system of voluntiiry ('a- 
 tliolie sell! ills whii'li hail heeii estahlisheil hefoie 
 the union, and lii'.d thereafter lieeii eariie<l on under 
 the .state .sy.steiii introduced in 1S7I. 
 
 I'at'erson, .1., jiointed out that the words " in- 
 juriously arteet " in section 'J'J. sulisectioii 1, of the 
 .Manitoba ('ou.stitutional Act, would include any 
 deyree of interfeieiice with the liglits or privileges 
 ill (|uestion, although falling short of the extinction 
 of such lights or privileges. He held that tlie iui- 
 peiliment cast in the way of olitaiiiing contrihii- 
 tioii.s to voluntary Catholic denominational schools 
 l(y reason of the fact that all Catholics would, un- 
 der the act, be conipiilsorily assessed to another 
 system of eilucatioii, amounted to an injurious af- 
 fecting of their rights and jMivileges within the 
 meaning of the subsection. 
 
 Then they go on and nuote the language 
 of other jiiclges all in the .same direction. 
 They narrate the circumstance of the exist- 
 ence of schools liefore confederation, they 
 describe what those scliools were, that whcie- 
 ever the Protestants had the majority they 
 controlled their schools, and wherever the 
 Catholics were in their majority they ruled 
 theirs. They (|uote Archl)ishop Taches 
 statement which was uncontradicted, and 
 admit all th(^ facts just as they were 
 given. Then they alluile to the jiassing 
 of the Act of 1871. That Act, which 
 was passed immediately after Manitoba 
 came in, was in the terms of the British 
 
 North America Act, and made special pro- 
 vision for denominational sclmols. Now, is 
 it lujt at all events a point that is worth 
 notuig, that immediately after this Mani- 
 toba Act was passed the Legislature, at its 
 first meeting, estalilislied the tleiinuiinational 
 system of schools as laid down in the Act ? 
 ^^'ould not one fairly infer thai tliey under- 
 stood the i|uestion tiioi'ougiily tliere. and 
 that they drew up this .\ct in harmony with 
 the I'ritish \ortli .\merica Act, because the 
 whole subject was fresh. It luidbeendiscussed 
 in Parliament and in the press and the Local 
 Legislature followed just in t lie linesof the .\ct. 
 I need only call attention to the fact, it has 
 lieen referred to so often : but the Privy 
 Council adven to that, and they say tiiey do 
 not tliink they could very well take judicial 
 notice of that, altliou<,di it is a \ery strong 
 point. They (luite admit that it ought to have 
 its influence, but still they do not consider 
 themselves bound to take note of tlie fact 
 that innnediately after confederation, and at 
 the vei-y lieginning of the first session, an 
 Act was passed recognizing denomina- 
 tional schools and making allotments to 
 the diflerent classes as provided for in the 
 liritish North America Act. They ((uote it, 
 lioweMU', but say that they do not think it 
 binds them : and they (|Uote also the Act of 
 1881, which is all in the same direction, car- 
 rying out the Act of 1S75, making further 
 and better provision. Their lordsliips say : 
 
 From the year ISTti until ISild. enactments were in 
 force declaring that in no ca.se should a I'rotestant 
 ratepayer be obliged to pay for a Koiiian Catholic 
 school, or a Homaii Catholic ratepayer for a I'rotes- 
 tant school. 
 
 Their lordshi[is explained the school sys- 
 tem as it e.xisteil before Manitoba came into 
 the union : 
 
 The practice which prevailed in Manitolia before 
 the union is also a matter on w liich all parties arc 
 agree<l. 
 
 The statement on the suliject by .Vrchbishop 
 T'aclie, the Honiiin Catholic archbishop of St. 
 Boniface, who has given evidence in IJairett's case, 
 has been accepted as acturate and complete. 
 
 There existed, he says, in the territory now i-oii- 
 stitutinu the province of Manitoba a number of 
 efTet'tive schools for children. 
 
 These schools were denominational schools, some 
 of them being regulated and controlled by the 
 Roman Catholic Church and others by various Pro- 
 testant denoniinations. 
 
 The means necessary for the support of the Ro- 
 man Catholic schools were supplied to some extent 
 by school fees paid by some of the parents of the 
 ciiildren who attemled the schools, and the rest 
 was paid out of the funds of the cluirch, contributed 
 bv its members. 
 
24 
 
 I »lllill;,' till' pfiiml Itfrlliil tn, Rdiiian ("atlKilirs 
 liihl 111) iiitiTfMt ill III- L-oiitri)l (ixer the mcIickiIs nt the 
 I'lKtcstiiiit ilenoiiiiiiiitidii.H, anil tin; iiicimIh'Is of tlii; , 
 I'rutf.stiiiit iluiioiiiiiiiitiuiis liiiil no iiilfifst iiioiiMiii- j 
 liiil c>\ cr tlu- ftcliimls (if Koiiiaii ( iitliiilii- .. 
 
 Tlitic wi'iv no |iiililii' silioiil in tin- Mfiiso of thi' 
 slate .Ncjioul.s. 
 
 Till' liiciiilicr.-- of llic lliiiiiaii ( 'arJKilir cliiiicii su|i 
 jioitfil tju' siliools of tjliil o\MI illUlill for till' 
 
 liciulit of Itoiiiaii (atliolic riiildii'ii, aii<l wvvv not 
 micliT olilii.'ation to. and did not i-ontril'iitc to. liic 
 .sii|i|ioit of any oilier s(liool>. 
 
 Il is lllHIiit'i'St fi'dlll I lit' ;il)ii\ f oxt r.Kl t'lnlM 
 
 till' iiiduiiH'iil tlijii tlii'ir !onislii|is ii't-o^iii/('(l 
 tli.it (li'iiiiiiiiiiiit idiiai M'liMol.s wcic tlic only 
 sc'iiniils ill t'xisfeiicc in Mjiiiiliilui lict'nic liii' 
 uiiiiiii. Ill tlip t'lilliiwiiiu cxtiact It is t'(|ii;illy 
 ricjif tli.if tlii'V uiiinciiitcd tlio olijeiM <if tlic 
 iVaiiii'is (if till' .M;uiit()l);i Act in iiit iiiiiiicinn' 
 till' wdids •■ liy inju'ticc. in addition tn tlie 
 \S(ii(U ill the i'.iiti.sli Nuitli Aiiicricii Act. 
 'I'litir liir(Ulii|i- say : 
 
 Siiliseetions I, l' and .'! of .-.ectioli •_''_' of tile Maui 
 tolia .\et. \s~{). dillci' lint sliiilitly from the corro 
 liondin;: siili.seetioii> of .-.eetion 'Xi of the liritisli 
 North .Vliierica .\i t. IS(i7. 
 
 'I'Ir' oid\ ini|iortaiit ditrcreiice i- iliat, in the 
 .Manitolia .\i t. in -iiliseil ion I, the woid.-. ■• li\- 
 law " are follow I'd hy the words "or |)iactiee," 
 wliieii do not oei'iir in the eorresjioiidiiiL: |ias,saL;e in 
 the liiitisii North .\iiieiiea Act. IS(i7. 
 
 Tlu'se words were no doulil introdueed to meet 
 the s|i('eial case of the loiintry which had not as 
 yet enjoyed the security of laws ])r(i|ierly so called. 
 
 II is not iieriia|is \r\\ easy to detilie precisely 
 the meaning; of sinh an expression as " havinij; a 
 ri.ulit or privilege l)\ practice." lint the oliject Of 
 tile eiiactineiit is toleralily clear. 
 
 I'lvideiitly the word ■• )iractice " is not to lie ron- 
 striied a> e(|iii\ aleiit to '•(llsiom lKi\iii- the force 
 of law . " 
 
 Their lord-hips are eonvinced thai it innst have 
 lieeii the intention of the legislature to iireserve 
 every IcL'al right or privik'm'. and eveiy lienelit or 
 iidvaiitaLre in the nature of a rinht or privilcj.'e. 
 with respect to denominational .schools, which any 
 class of persons practically enjoyed ,it the time ot 
 the union. 
 
 It is i^ijually cicai- tliat tlicir l(if(lslii|is ap- 
 lii-eciiited the intention of railianit'iit to prc- 
 st'fve the legid I'iulits and ]ii'i\ ilci^es of the 
 niinoiity, yet hy their jiidoiin'nt those le<fal 
 riirhts and jirivileyes have l)een lost liv the 
 coui't siistainiim- the .\cl of lSi)0, of as theii' 
 lofdshijis expfess the chaiiuc : 
 
 In ISlId the jiolicy of the |iast nineteen years was 
 reversed, the ilenomiiiational system of pulilii' edu- 
 cation was entirely swept away. 
 
 Tlieii' loidsliips I'ecoiiiii/e tiiat the cflect 
 of the Act of I.^IK) is to tax the niinoiity 
 for the pulilie soliooLs in addition to support- 
 iiiii tlieif own, and tlieir loi'dships feyi-et 
 that, "owing to leliyious convictions which 
 
 eveiy Imdy must respect and to the teachini; 
 of their church that Honiaii Catholics find 
 thenisehi's unahle to piirtake of adxantagos 
 which the law offers to all alike." 
 
 Their lordshijis say : "That llonian Catho- 
 lics art' free to estahlish their own schools 
 throuiihout the province." No doulit they 
 are, hut at the same time they must jiay the 
 puhlic scliool tax. and their schools will not 
 ri'i-eixc any share of the puiilic funds tillottetl 
 for school ptirposes. Tiie logic used and the 
 conclusions reaiiicd will e(|tt;illy a]i})ly to 
 <i>uelti'C and < Mitario. Accor(Hng to their 
 lordsliips' opinions, separate schools in < )n 
 tario and (iliiehec mi^lit he swept away, and 
 the minority in each province would not Ijc 
 prejudicially atl'ected. hecause tlu'v would 
 still lie "free to estalilish their own schools." 
 It is (piite deaf their lordships did not un- 
 derstand the situation and the suhject, as 
 we have i cxistiii;;' in the older provinces. 
 The most cliaritahlc tliiiiif to say of them is 
 that tiieydid not understand it. It is all 
 ih.it one can say, hut it is a pretty hard mat- 
 ter for the people who do understand this 
 (luestion. and who know that a yrievnus 
 wronii; has heen perpetrated, to have it 
 liointed out to them that they must he satis- 
 tied with the decision. 1 say it in all sin 
 cerity, and without any desire to reflect on 
 anyliody I think it is to 1)e exceedintjly 
 fegretted that the sim|)le t'oiirsc pointed 
 out under the act of Manitolia was not 
 taken and the hill vetoed at otice. This 
 (|uestioii of provincial rights is not one 
 that is germane to the school ipiestion at all. 
 There is no other ipiestion of provincial 
 rights that is relegated to the (iovernor in 
 Council none whatever. You will .search 
 the r.ritish North America Act, or any con- 
 stitutional act, iu \ain to iind that there is 
 an jippeal to the (lovernor in Council from 
 the passage of any other law than this par- 
 ticular one. It was, no doulit, framed for 
 the vi'iv ]iiirpos(> of meeting cases of tiiis 
 kind, aiul I do feel that if it had heen 
 promptly met liefore any agitation or excite- 
 ment arose in the community, not a woril 
 j would have heen said id lout it. The parties 
 ' who jiassed the law. I am ipiile satisfied, felt 
 sure that it was *///*•*' rir>K. It was done, 
 evidently, hy a trick, as pointed out hy the 
 lion, iiiemher from St. Boniface, not done 
 after an agitation hy the press or hy the 
 j people : it was done hy political tricksters 
 (no one else would have sown all this <lis- 
 , cord) just to meet their own political pur- 
 
 po,-j 
 T( 
 
tt'iicliiim 
 
 dHcs tiiid 
 
 III Catlu*- 
 1 schools 
 ultt they 
 t jiJiy the 
 
 w ill not 
 s ill lotted 
 
 ;ui(l the 
 aiH-ily to 
 
 to their 
 s in < Ml- 
 way, and 
 Id not he 
 ■y would 
 
 sidioois. 
 1 not un- 
 ihjeet, as 
 iro\ inces. 
 t' them i^ 
 
 It is ail 
 laid iiiat- 
 tand this 
 
 grievous 
 
 have it 
 
 he satis- 
 
 |i all sin- 
 
 etlect on 
 
 •eediiiLrly 
 
 ]tointed 
 
 was not 
 
 ■e. This 
 not one 
 
 ion at all. 
 
 fro\ineial 
 •enior in 
 II search 
 any con- 
 there i>- 
 
 iieil from 
 
 It ills par 
 fiineil tor 
 ot' this 
 ad iieen 
 
 |)r exeite- 
 a word 
 I' parties 
 stied.felt 
 lis done. 
 It hy the 
 |iot done 
 hy the 
 Iricksters 
 Itliis dis- 
 ical jmr- 
 
 jiuses. I care not whether they \vere (Irit or 
 Tory : it makes no ditlerence. The lion, 
 gentleman said they were Lihei-aU. Well, 
 if they were Liherals, they were not worthy 
 of the name. No man can \h' considered 
 liheial if he is intolerant. No man who 
 does not respect the rights of his neiglihour 
 should call himself liheial. If he acts as 
 though his religions \iews were alone to lie 
 i-espet'ted and those of all other people 
 slighted, he is not liheral ; and there 
 is not a Protestant statesman to-day who 
 <loes not approx'c of religions insti'Liction 
 ill -cliools. l"]\fryoiic who reads up this 
 (juestioii will tiiid that that is the trend 
 of pifolic opinion : educate our childrcMi in 
 Christian schools. No matter w hat jiart ictiliir 
 church they helong to, they t'-ach resjiect 
 for authority and charity towards one an 
 other. Yon (hid that those who are reli 
 gious in their own \\ay, in the religion in 
 which they heliexc, are the hest peojile. if wc 
 desire to leave a legacy to posterity, would 
 not the best legacy he one which w<aild 
 establish a Christian jiopulation throughout 
 the land ? 1 think it is a very great mis- 
 fortune that the men who brtjiight about 
 this confederation, that the men who brought 
 about the tii'st imioii between I'pper and 
 Lower Canada, are not alive to-day. If 
 they were we would not have this dissension 
 in the country. Are there no statesmen 
 among us ; None strong enough to stay the 
 angry tide that is rising up, becoming in- 
 tolerable to a degrei' that makes life uidiear- 
 able .' I often feel that if that distinguished 
 statesman whose ashes now repose near 
 Kingston, had been alive and in his health, 
 all this agitation would have been stayed. 
 He at least had [lowerand influence on those 
 behind him to ])revent their inarching on 
 and encroaching on the rights and liberties 
 of their fellow citizens. ; 
 
 Hon. Mr. I'.oW KLL- They have not 
 done it yet. The other ]i;i.rty h;ive done all 
 
 this. " , ' ; 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 lion. Mr. 8(;OTT-One would suppose' 
 from the way that some gentlemen talk that 
 this was a fad of the Catholics in Manitoba 
 - that it was .something unwarranted, but if 
 tliev will look to the record of the mother 
 land they will find that there they consider j 
 religion in the .schools a most important mat- 
 ter. I'nfortunately, we borrow too many 
 of our views from the Cnited States. This 
 
 (|Uestion of disa.->.sociating religion from the 
 schools arose there, and its conse(|iiences are 
 already evident in that land of liberty, that 
 land where divorces are so numerous, where 
 a iiiaii coulil stop over at a station and get 
 a divorce, where domestic ties are broken up 
 and sociali>iii of the wmst dcscrijilion i^ 
 rain|>aiit. and all due to the fact that they 
 are departing from the i>rinciples of religious 
 education. < io to anv ( ity in the Inited 
 States, go to i>ostoii. which has been the 
 centre of retineiiicnt and religious thought, 
 or was supposed at oic time to be such, 
 and take any of the churches there, and 
 take the <-orre>iioii(lihg clinrch in .Montreal 
 or (ituciiec. be it .Methodist. I*.aptist. 
 ('atliolic. or any other, and you will lind 
 that a verv small projioition of the popula- 
 tion in the cit iesiif t he Inited Statesattend 
 the churches. Tiiat is just tlieellectof the 
 svsteiii adopted in that country. In a mat 
 ter of this kind oiu' would su|)pose that we 
 won 111 draw our inspiration from the Mother 
 land, where the best example'^ are ^iven us. 
 What do we tind there ' 'i'hat ail denomina 
 tions w lioilesiie to evtablisji >cho<ilsare liber 
 allv prov ideil for; they have sejiarate 
 schools in Kngland. Wales ami Scotland, 
 where the Catholic eleinent is very much in 
 the minority, where it has not the supjiosed 
 inlluenceit ought to have hen-. They thereget 
 si.K times as much allotted to their scIkkiIs as 
 we do in Canada. 1 hold here the returns of 
 the government grams to the various schools 
 in lOngland ; wherethev recogni/e perfect tole 
 ration. They recogni/.e that some non ci.n 
 forrnists prefer the secular system of ediica 
 1 tion. and that various reliiiious denomina- 
 tions prefer ha\ing schools under their nwn 
 control, and sip .ill arc provided for ; there is 
 no hard and fast rule forcin- all the chil 
 ilreii into one school; they reeogni/e lli.it 
 ; the several religious iimlies have divfigent 
 'viinvs on the subject of education, and that 
 thev are brought up iiiiiler diU'ereni cdii 
 ditions. and you cannot fuse them all. you 
 cannot .send them ;dl into the one school ; 
 you have got to recognize certain princijiles, 
 and Ihitish statesmen do recognize them. 
 Now take the ^\'esleyan schools ; for IKU'J. the 
 annual grant was £115,000 : these ari' the re- 
 turns for Kngland and Wales lam readiiiL;' 
 from, ill England and Wales there were nine 
 hundred and tifty-six Catholic schools. They 
 received £171,07.") — <jver 8 1 a head. In On- 
 tario, my lion friend .said we boast a 
 I'reat deal of liberalitv. Well, I had to 
 
26 
 
 srhool education. The wliole 
 gi'iint in < )nt<-ino is 8600,000. 
 
 t'dufiiticniu 
 
 smile ; we are supposed to have a great deal | Collegiate Institute ftr any of the higher 
 ot" liberality ; we arc sui>posed to enjoy great 
 liberty so tar as schools are concerned. Tak- 
 ing the Catholic population of ()ntario, we get 
 the munificent sum of '^l cents per head per 
 annum. For the children that attend the 
 schools, somewhere about 7-"i cents per head, 
 considerably less than a dollar. In England 
 it runs up to f^A, anil in Wales, where the 
 Catholii's are in a niinoi'ity, it amounts to 
 .'?4. In Scotland, in the days of John Knox, 
 there was a good deal of intolerance, Vmt 
 
 Hon. Mr. IJ( )WELL— Neither are they 
 taxed for the higher schools. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SCOTT— They have to pay their 
 share of the taxes. 
 
 Hon. Mr. B()WELL--No. I was chaii- 
 man of the board for a great many years in 
 
 the Scotch people to-day are not the illiberal, ■ the town in which I lived, and the Catholics 
 
 intolerant[)eopletlieywere(redited with being 
 in early times. They give lil)erally to all 
 schfiols : they I'ecogni/e that we cannctt all 
 think alike on the various ways of worship- 
 ping our (iod : they recognize that, and take 
 it into account, and so in Scntland the 
 
 were not taxed for the support of the higher 
 schools for which they received no benefit. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SCOTT— The lion, gentleman 
 is right with reference to the tax that is col- 
 Tlie tax collected is the tax that 
 
 ected. 
 
 schools of the \arious churches-— the schools i goes to the counnon school, but then the con- 
 
 in connection with the Church of Scotland, 
 the Kpiscopalian schools and the l^oma.i 
 Catholic schools reccixc publie aid. There 
 are only l7-'5 Catholic Schools in Scotland. 
 It is well known the Catholic jiopulation is 
 
 tribution of the additional amount that goes 
 to make up the six hundred thousand comes 
 out of the public revenue. The Catholics beir 
 their share. It is an allotment out of the re- 
 venue. The people are not taxed dvt '-tly for 
 
 small there, and yet they give £Mt),S4:5: we that. Thereisnodirecttax. Thetlii<>ct axfor 
 have in < )ntario 'ISO .separate schools, and the common school is what is col) jcted la the 
 yet they only gft altogether les>. than s20,000 | municipality througli the collector for school 
 between >;is,UO() and si !»,U0O. 
 
 Hon. Ml. r.oWKLL — Is not tht^ ajipio- 
 jiriation for the school funds in ( tntario 
 distributf'd e(|ually in pro])oi'tion to the 
 children of both scIkkjIs, wlu'ther they be 
 Protestant <ir not ■ 
 
 Hon. Mr. SC( )TT--That is for the public 
 
 purposes. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Mc:\[ILLAX- 
 
 called public schcK)ls. 
 
 -They are now 
 
 Hon. Mr. SCOTT— Yes, but the lion, 
 gentleman will see tliat there is a great 
 difference between the allotment for the corn- 
 
 schools. Oh, there is a fair distribution so j mr-n and separate schools and the school 
 far as relates to elementary schools. i grant which is over 8600,000. I can tuni 
 
 lit up and show how it is allotted: l;ut 
 
 Hon. Mr. 1U)WELL-I tliouglit you tlu- residue goes to schools that Catholics 
 
 intended to infer there was a distincticm j i^^annot avail themselves of: it goes to 
 
 drawn between the Catholic children and i the higher education. They contribute 
 
 the others. | ^(, k(.pj> up the higher education, but they 
 
 are not directly taxed more than the pro- 
 
 Hon. .Mr. SCUTT— No. Taking the Cath- 
 olic population :{80,00U or 400,000, the 
 
 testants : neither are taxed for higher educa- 
 tion : that comes out of the yeneral revenue 
 
 818,000 allotte*! to the separate schools in , „ . mi i i i 
 
 Ontario would be about 5,i .ents per head I ^'^ ^^'^ country. The only school tax we 
 of the Catholi.. population." ' ^''^^''^ '" < ^"t''^"" >^ ^''^ '^'l"^^'' ^'"^^ ""P"'^^'* ^^ 
 
 Hon. yiv. BOWPXL— Is it not the same 
 proportion for the Protestant jiopulation 1 
 
 Hon Mr. SCOTT— The whole -rant in 
 
 the municipality 
 tax. 
 
 there is no provincial 
 
 Hon. Mr. BOAVELI.— The point is this : 
 
 tlie Catholic children have the same right to 
 
 Ontario is between 8600,000 and 8700,000. i attend the high schools as the Protestant 
 
 Hi 
 
 The Catholics get their share of what is 
 allotted to what is known as the elementary 
 or public school, they get no share in the 
 
 children. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SCOTT— No doubt about that. 
 
uciitional 
 
 ai'P tliey 
 
 pay their 
 
 ras oliair- 
 yeais in 
 Catliolie'S 
 he liiuher 
 ) heiu'tit. 
 
 ;entleinait 
 hat is t.'ul- 
 
 tax that 
 n tlie con- 
 
 tliat jroes 
 iind i-diiies 
 lolies heu' 
 ; of the re- 
 I'.iotly for 
 
 ?ct ax for 
 'ted 1.1 the 
 
 for sclidol 
 
 are now 
 
 the lion. 
 s a great 
 I- the eom- 
 he school 
 
 (.•an turn 
 
 ted ; but 
 Catholics 
 
 goes to 
 
 ntrihute 
 
 hut they 
 
 the jiro- 
 ler e<luca- 
 1 revenue 
 
 tax we 
 n posed by 
 trovincial 
 
 It is this : 
 e right to 
 'rotestant 
 
 Ixiut that. 
 
 27 
 
 ! 
 
 Hon. Mr. I'.OWKLL — Ergo they receive ; their own arrangements, and instead nt' dis- 
 t he same benefit in proportion to the nuin- j uniting they eonibine to carry on a school 
 ber wlio attend it as the Catholics. If they and tliey settle the (]uestion of teaching 
 do not go it is their own fault. j religion in a friendly neigiibouriy way. 
 
 Hon. Ml'. SCOTT -Yes, it is open to 
 them, the panie as any other public insti- 
 tution, but what 1 do say is that they do not 
 practically get t!ie benefit of it, because they 
 do not as a rule go to higher schools in ])ro 
 liortion to their nu'iibers. Now, when I was 
 interi'upterl [ was just reading the allotments. 
 I had before me the last otHcial returns and 
 you will find that what [ have stated is 
 substantially correct. Wherever the sep- 
 arate schools are established the Catholic rate 
 is struck by the Catholic school trustees, just 
 as the public rate is struck by the public 
 school trustees. The .same collector collects 
 for botli. 
 
 Hon. Mr. .MACDOXALD ( H. C.) 
 there not church schools? 
 
 Are 
 
 Hon. -Mr. SCOTT: They have the same 
 rights as the catholics have to establish if 
 theyplease. The method is this : the trustees 
 of the {)ul)lic school strike a rate. It is ne- 
 cessary to support the schools in conjunctifm 
 with the government grant, and the grant 
 is based on the per capita attendance. 
 The separate school trustees strike their rate 
 and they are both haiuled in to the munici- 
 pality and the tax is put on the collector's 
 roll and in the end is paid either to the com- 
 mon school fund or the separate school fund: 
 so that they tax themselves just as they 
 }ilea.se. The se{)arate school trustees may 
 put on so many mills t)n the dollar ; they 
 may be higher or lower than the public school 
 or vice versa. Now one [)oiiit I desire to 
 make is that there is really not enough in it 
 to create all this agitation which is going on 
 Ontario, the attack that is to-day made upon 
 tlie .sepatate school system. The whole 
 amount paid in ISU'J was 818.248. Now 
 there are many counties in Ontario where 
 not a dollar is paid to separate schools. I 
 suppose they do not exist in those counties 
 In many localities the Catholics and Protes- 
 tants, Ijeing both small in numbers, make an 
 arrfingement among themselves and they 
 agree to bear and forbear. The very fact 
 that either can establish a separate school 
 induces a feeling of toleration ; and that is 
 a safety valve: so, feeling that they cannot 
 individually support a school, they make 
 
 Hon. :\Ir. BOWELL I might inform the 
 lion, gentleman that that is ;ilsn done in 
 the county in which 1 live in the two of the 
 largest townships wliei'e the Catholics pre- 
 dominate largely, pjirtii'ularlyin Tyi'udinaga 
 whei'e they have "JOO vott^. 
 
 Hon. .Mr. SCOTT— In the county of 
 Hastings, the wliole sum paid for separate 
 schools is ."Sj }. ^\'here both parties know 
 they are protected by tiie law thev 
 make up tiieir minds, in carrying out their 
 school systems, to agi'ee if possible, each 
 is tolerant of the other and thev get on 
 in a friendly, neighbourly way : but if the 
 law was ditt'eif nt you would find there would 
 be dissension and disunion among them. 
 The very fact of theii' weakness anil the in- 
 ability of each one toestalilish a school leaas 
 to a union, and .so they get on in a friendly 
 and amicalile manner. I dare say where the 
 agitation most largely prevails for the aboli- 
 tion of separate schools is in places where 
 they ha\t' no se])ai'ate si'hools : that is where 
 the feeling is strongest. It is a myth to 
 them. It is a purely sentimental (piestion. 
 For instance there is no separate school in 
 Bi'ant, Dutl'erin, Elgin, llaldimand, Halibur- 
 ton, Halton, Lincoln, Oxford, Prince Edward 
 or ^'ictol•ia, yet there is consideralile 
 agitation for their abolition in some of those 
 C(»unties. For the small sum that is given 
 to the school system in < )ntario, is it worth 
 while that there shoulil be this excitement 
 and agitation and attempt to take away the 
 small remnant that is left to the minority .- 
 One would think, certainly, that as we made 
 that arrfingement when we went into pait- 
 nership with the sister proviiii'es the influ- 
 ence thei'e would have some weight ujion the 
 people of (Jiitario — that they would .say that 
 the generous liberal treatment accorded by a 
 province that is not as nc\\ as ( )iitarit> should 
 have some weight and influence with the 
 other provine<'sof the; Dominion. Asexplain- 
 e<l by the lion, memlji-r for St. IJoniface, 
 when confederation was taking place in 1800 
 there was a feeling in (Quebec that the rights 
 of the minority had not been protected, but 
 thev took Sir (Jeorge Cartier's word that they 
 would be after the union. Sir Alexander 
 Gait w ent out of the Co\ernment because it 
 
28 
 
 coulfl not l)t' (lone nt the time. Tlif circiiin 
 staiu'fs wei'c sucli tluit in I lit- slioit time 
 allowed they could not run aliill thioiiirli Vnr 
 lianient and Sir < o-nim' Cai'tii'i' )ilfd^<'d his 
 word of honour that it' they would trust the 
 majority, after tliey liecanie aprovincean Ad 
 woidd he passed for (heir protection. The 
 pi'ovince of i^uelpfc was not l)ound except l»y 
 the word of an lioiiotii'ahle man. to enact any 
 sui'h la\\ . Flow did the ma jor'ily in (^Mieliec 
 carry out tiiat plc<|o-e.' There are nintdumdred 
 I'liiiestani schools in l^Kieliec that j^et anecjual 
 amount per capita with the Catholic schools 
 tliere. In addition to that what did 
 (^>uel)ec do ' (,)uel)cc granted lariie sums 
 of inoiiev foi' hiijhei' education. In ()ntariu 
 .•it the time of conftnleration, the liii;hei' edu- 
 cation.al (jstalili.-^lnnents of tiiat province 
 were receixini: :i\d and assistance. For in- 
 .stance, |{e;.;iopolis college at Kin,ij;ston was 
 in receipt of ■■?."5,0U(J : »(|ut'en's college, Kiiijis- 
 t(,.n. a Presl)yterian institution under Prin- 
 cipal (Jrant, was ueitiny -"r'NOUU a year; Hy- 
 t own college slJOU: St. Michael's, 8l>,U00 ; 
 Trinity college, in coniu'ction with the 
 C'hur.'h of England, Toronto. 84.000: \'ic- 
 toi'ia college, (Jol)ourg. an institution undei 
 the control of the ^letliodist body, .-<."), 000 ; 
 I, Assoinption, at Sandsvicii. a small institu- 
 tion. 81,000. Now. that was continued 
 after confederation, hut tlie intolerant spirit 
 of Ontario was against tliose grants and 
 they had to be swept away. l>id they follow 
 suit ill Lower Canada ? N*o ; they ilid not. 
 NN hat did they do there for su]ierior educa- 
 tion / The legislation in the province of 
 <-^>uel)ec relating to the rights of the minority 
 in that province i^ fully set forth in the 
 following ollici;\l lettci' from the Su})erinten- 
 dent of i'lducation to the Premier: 
 
 ",M I I'.lc. -Jlltli l.iiuiary. |Sil((. 
 
 Til the MiiMiiiumIiIi till- i'li'iiiiiM 
 
 iif ! Ill- l'io\i|iic lit «,)uclicr. 
 
 MK. I '.y your Utter of tlie liStli l>ci einljci last 
 yit stiluiiit foiu \eiv iiii))iirt int (|Ufstiiins to w liii'li 
 1 liiivc the hoiKii to reply lis follows : 
 
 l.st. Wliat was tile law on the tiist of .Inly. ISIIT, 
 ill eoiuieetioii uitli liie I'liMotant iiiiuority in tins 
 jUipvilK'c ': 
 
 .\t tliat time there was no law eoinerning the 
 I'lotestaiit niinoiity ill this pioviiicu. 
 
 ( 'luipter l.")of the Consoliiiatecl statutes of Lower 
 Cuiuiila was the only law in force. It pi'ovided 
 that the religious minority in the municipality 
 might .seiiarate themselves from the majority and 
 coiitiol their own si-hools. The grants made by 
 the ( lovernment were ilistiuheil among the com- 
 
 mon schools in |iio|)oitioii to the nnmher of the 
 |po|Milatioii. The j^'iant foi- superior ediu'ation wa> 
 ilistiiliuted upon thi' reeonnnendation of tlieSiiper 
 intendeiil with the approval of the i.ieiitenant 
 (loveriior in ( 'ouiiiil, the I'roteslant iiist itiitioii> 
 iiceiving a share of the grant along with tin- 
 other insiiintions. The grants to li>sentients w ho 
 fiirnH'd the religious minority in each inunicipalitN 
 Were distrihnted in proportion to the numher of 
 children attt-nding the schools of tin- dis.sentients 
 as (-om|)ared with the entire niurdier of (-hildren 
 attending school at the same tinu- in the muniri 
 jiality. 
 
 ■Jnd. W hat amendments have heen made since 
 I the first of .Inly, ISIJT, in tlu; .same <onnection '.' 
 'I'he Statute's of N'icl. Chap. !.'>, of IS(iS. ;!;! 
 Vict.. Chap. :{. of IS7I. and ."W \'ict.. Chap, l-'i. of 
 isy.'i. contain the |)rinci)ial amemlna-nts that have 
 lieen niadi' since the liisl of .Inly. Is(i7, to ( hap. 
 I.") of the ( 'onsdlidated Statutes of Lowei- ( 'anada 
 , ill lespi-i-t to the Protestant minority. 
 I ;hd. What is the |ira(-liial ditVereme ln-t wci-ii 
 'the ]iiivih-ges enjoyed lpy the Protestant minority 
 on the liist day (pf duly. IS(I7. and today '.' 
 
 On the first duly. IS(i7. the laws eoneLining 
 i editeation were general, and there were no privi 
 ' leges properly speaking, eitlu^r f<pr the majiPiity or 
 1 for the minority, Ipiit since the 1st of duly. ISliT, 
 the I'lotcstant minority I'lijov the follipwiiiL.' Jirivi- 
 I lego: 
 
 ! I'irst. 1 he (inniril ipf Puhlic Instruction is 
 
 divideil into two cipinmittees, the one composed of 
 
 I Pvipiiian Cathiplics. and the other of Protestants 
 
 I a|ppoiiiiei! Iiy the laeutenant (ioveinor in ('(Piuuil. 
 
 the latter have the right to associate with then. 
 
 ; selves li\e persons of their own faith who form 
 
 |)ait of the I'rolestant (-ommittee. 
 
 S(-e( .\d. .V I'riptestant Secretary, having the 
 
 I pi'i\ ilexes and salary ot ilr|puty In-ad (the Ke\ . 
 
 I'. I. lt<'.\fordl has lieeii apjioiiited in tlu- l)e|iart- 
 
 iiieiit of I'ulplic liisi ructiipii represent iiii; the 
 
 I'rotesMiils. 
 
 Third. The Protestant Committee of the Ciam- 
 cil has control of the schools of their own faith. 
 j l''onrth. The Protestant .School Inspectors, ap- 
 j iiointed n])on the leeommendatiiui of the Pro- 
 testant ecpiiimittee, visit and inspect the Protestant 
 ' schools. 
 
 Fifth. Separate lioards of e\aminers for candi- 
 dates for teachers' diplomas are apixpinted (Pii tlie 
 reeommciidatiim of the Protestant committei- ipf 
 the coumil. 
 
 .Sixth. The text lioipks in use in all the Pr(Ptcs- 
 tant scIioipIs arc aiithori/cd lpy the Protestant 
 committee. 
 
 S('veiitli. .Apart from their share of the Snpei-ior 
 Education l''und whuh is apprippriatcd ai-i-iprdiiig 
 to the pojiulatiun. the Protestants have the jirivi 
 lege (pf distriliuting the funds arising from the 
 celt-ipial ion of marriages hy Protestant Ministeis. 
 
 i'lighth. .\ii idisolute di\ isiipii <pf the slIiooI taxes 
 in the cities of (^lueliee and Montreal is jirovided 
 for liy :<•_' Vict.. Chai). ID of IStiS, and the 
 school taxes ini|iosed (Pii the Protestant property 
 helipiigs to the Protestants, and they receive 
 a prtpportional share of the ta.xes on pr^i- 
 ))erty Ipelongiiig to ccpiporations or inciprporated 
 companies, or to jiersons not hehpliging to the 
 Itomaii Catholic or Priptestaiit faith, or whose 
 religions faith is luikiupwn, or helonging ])artly, or 
 jointly to persons belonging, .some to the Koman 
 
 Ni 
 
lllfl of till 
 Hlltidll W ill 
 
 f thiSupfi- 
 Liciitcii.iiit 
 ills! itutiiiii> 
 : with tli<' 
 itifiitN \\ liii 
 iuiii<'i|ialit\ 
 mmilHT i>f 
 lisM'iitii'iit> 
 of cliiMrcii 
 the inuiiiri- 
 
 macU' siiici' 
 ii'i'tioii '.' 
 ,f 1S()S, .•!.'! 
 
 'llclp. I">. ot 
 
 s tliat lia\c 
 i7, t(i ( 'l\a|). 
 WW ( 'aiiada 
 
 III'!' lift \\ ITll 
 
 lit iiiiuoiity 
 
 ay ? 
 I'oiRtiiiiii;^ 
 
 .Tf no privi 
 inajorilv or 
 .liiiy. IStiT, 
 
 iiwinu' jirivi- 
 
 <t,i'iu'tioii is 
 
 i'iil)l|iosccl of 
 i'rotistaiil~ 
 
 ■ ill Couiuil. 
 with lliiii: 
 
 U llo fol III 
 
 la villi; till- 
 
 (the Kin . 
 
 (• Di'part- 
 
 ■lltinn the' 
 
 till' Colin 
 ,11 faitii. 
 icclors. ap- 
 the I'ro- 
 
 I'liiti'staiit 
 
 for taiiili- 
 
 ntrd on till- 
 niinittff of 
 
 tlu' I'roti'N- 
 rrott'Stalit 
 
 If Superior 
 I aiH-orcliiiL; 
 f thf jirivi 
 from tlir 
 Miiiistfis. 
 iliool taxes 
 s jiroviilfil 
 . and the 
 it propi'i'ty 
 ty I'eci'ivu 
 ■i on jir.i 
 icorpoiati'il 
 ;iiif,' to till' 
 or whose 
 (lartly. or 
 the Koiiiaii 
 
 29 
 
 ( 'alliolii', anil others to the I'rolestant relij.'ioii, or ' 
 to persons «lio declare in wiitin^ llieii desire ; 
 ot liaviii'.' their i)roperty inserihed on the list ; 
 known as •■ iieiitial or to tiiins and roiiiinereial 
 partiierslii|)s who shall not have declare 1 thionyh 
 their ai^eiit, or one of their niiiiiliers their desire 
 of lieilifi placed on the lirsl or second list. 'I'hese 
 pi'iiN isions also apply to the I'lotestanis in the 
 tou lis of Sherlirooke and l\ichinond. 
 
 Ninth. The school coniniissioners represent 
 in^' till' majority in all rural municipalities collect 
 the school taxes from eoi'iioratioiis and incorpor 
 ated coinpaiiies, ami jiay o\er to the iniiioiity 
 their proportion of the taxes for the support of 
 the iliss(.'ntient schools. 
 
 'I'liith. All dissentients may cease, if they so 
 desire, from jiayinu their taxes to dissentient 
 
 schools. 
 
 HIcviMith. All nonresident |iroprietois in a 
 municipality may divide their taxes Ketween the 
 I onimissioncrs and the tiiistees of the muni- 
 cipality. ' 
 
 'I'welfth. The dissentients of one municipality I 
 may unite to a neii;hlior,riiig school municipality | 
 of their o\Mi relictions faith. 
 
 Thirteenth. If tlieic is no dissentient school in 
 the municipality, any iiead of a family residiiij; in 
 the municipality and piofessine; the religions 
 faitli of the minority, and lia\ ine children of 
 school age. may send his children to a .school of 
 his own faitli in a neighlioriiig muniii])ality and : 
 |iay his taxes in sup|i(irt of a school, provided that 
 the school is not more than three miles distant 
 from where he resides. j 
 
 l-'ourteeiith. The I'ldtestants receixf a |ir ipor- \ 
 tioiial share according to |)o|)iilation from the 
 lexenne of the .lesuits' istates, and aci-ording to 
 ."il-.VJ N'ict. Chap, l;^, an additional sum of .><()( l,d(H) : 
 has lieeii granted to them as an indemnity. \ 
 
 4th. In every lase where is an aniendnient. ' 
 pk'asi' tell nu' what was the law at the time of the , 
 aliieiidmeiit , and what was the practical ditl'ereiice ; 
 made hy the amendment, always in connection: 
 with the I'rotestant minority V 
 
 The answer to this i|nestioii will lie foinid in '. 
 those that precede it. ! 
 
 Ill conclusion I may say that the I'rotestaiit 
 minority has always eiijoyi'd all the protection j 
 that could he desired, anil that since confedera- ' 
 tlon the school lavvs have conferred upon the! 
 niiiioiity well detined |)iivileges which have in- ! 
 creased according to the needs of the minority. 
 
 The whole is ri'spectfiiUy suhniitted. I 
 
 1 have the honour to lie, sir, 
 
 \iiur oliedieiit serv ant, 
 
 (Signed) CKDKON oClMKT, 
 
 Sil/ii iiiih mil III , 
 
 'Plie (Tovcfiiiiiont ofaiitcd aid tn Mcliill oil- ' 
 lent', wliioli we know to lie a Pfotcsttint 
 institution, iiinl the o;i'aut lia.s hoen con- 1 
 tiiitit'd, and tlic <,'t-atits have licon inctcascd 
 inst(!ad nt' diiniiiisli(Ml .since cont'edenition. 
 They .gfiiiit McGill University $5,950 ;i 
 rnivei-sity of Bishop's eollet;e, in wliich 
 theology is one of the snhjeets taught, 82, o.JO ; 
 also a grant of 81, 750 tn another religious I 
 
 iiistitutinii. 1 think in coiiiicctinii with the 
 Church of Sentland, .Mmiiri College ; St. 
 Francis Culi.'ge. sl.dOO: tlie Nniinai 
 Se-honl. est^dilished tu educate Protest- 
 ant teachers, gets iiii less than 81.'i,S(hi. 
 The aii[)ro]ii iatimi fur higher ediieafion in 
 (,)iielii'c alciiic f(ii- tiiuse institutinns I ha\e 
 named is far in e.veess nf tin- whiilc aiununt 
 allotted for Catholie education in the ju-o- 
 vince of ()ntario, though tiic I'lotestant 
 lioptilation in tjindiei is less tlian the Cath- 
 olic lioliuiation in ( hitaiio ; but more tlmii 
 that, tlffe are through [.own' Canada in 
 the vaiious towns what are known as liiuh 
 schools and s|i('cia! schools for Protest- 
 ants, at .Montreal and (^>iielifc, and Coiiip- 
 ton and Stanstead. and su on. 'I'ji,. 
 total amount jiaid to the high schools was 
 8>'J,470. There a,re more modern institutions 
 caded ai'ademies ; tiiey are to he fouiifl at 
 \arious places throughout the jirovince. 
 The sum of sl,.'')L'.") is voted hy the p'rovinco 
 of (^)uel)ec for these academies under Pro- 
 testant maiiagoMient. Total amount paid 
 for higher education inv Protest, mts in 
 <^ueiiee, 8.">1'.<>I i . That is all in addirimt 
 to the amounts vnted to the ordinarv 
 schools of the country, the i'OO odd Protest- 
 ant si'hools to which 1 ha^■e referred. ( )ne 
 would suppose that those facts would liaxo 
 their intlueneein the province of Ontario ; it 
 should liiive its inlhience all over this 
 Dominion, the fact that our i'"rench Canadian 
 allies are so lihcral in their treatment of 
 the minority. 'i'hey approach it from 
 the statesman's point of view ; they recogni/:i' 
 the importance of religion s hciiig taught in 
 the .si-hools. Now, can you jioint to any 
 place in the world where the spirit of tolera- 
 tion is as strong and inherent as in the pro- 
 vince of <.i>uel)<H', where the two classes get 
 fin in such a friendly w/iy togi-ther .' There 
 is no part of the Dominion where the sam>^ 
 kindly ft'i-ling twists, or where the Protest- 
 ants and C'atholics are more religious in their 
 own way. If you go to Montreal and look in 
 the Protestatit churches there, you will 
 iind a larger proportion of people than In anv 
 similar churt'h in any city in the I' nited States 
 and thereason is that religion thereperineates 
 every w,dk of life. Children are educated and 
 brought up in it. AVhat is the efl'eet, 
 of it .' To make them intolerant and 
 hate each other? No, the reverse, to make 
 theni love and respect each other, to make 
 them recogni/e that each section has its good 
 (jualities tmd each is doing a work in the com- 
 
30 
 
 luunity, anti to hr'mg them to 1m' more tol- 1 tion of the Depiirtinent i)f Piililic InHtniction in 
 erunt and cliantahle t..wanls eac-h other '»'''' l''"y'''''\';f Vm'I'.y. ilu 
 
 _, . • ^ . 1. £ 1 lit till' ( Diiiicil i)f I'lililic liistruitloii desiii' to iilacc 
 
 \.)U cannot pumt out to ju.- any i)ait ot „„ ,^,,,„,,i ti„.i, i.ij,), „,,„e „f ,,,„iij. ,inclal.ilitv 
 
 tlu- world where tlie same kindly t'eelint; ex- ' with whidi liis .liitifH hiivf Ikcii <liscliiirj,'i;.l iiiul to 
 ists between the two bodies to sufh an extent I (-•oniiiatiiliitc liiiii ii|m>ii tin.' ailvaiiLc wliicli, uihUm' 
 as it does in tlie province of QiicIm'c. Surely ^ I'i^ ciu.r>;fiic .sui)frint.-iHlfiiwM.,lnuation lias mad 
 
 that is an object lesson that we cannot 
 ignore. These are tacts whicli appeal to tlie 
 
 mil is iiiakiii),', in the pioviiu'i'. 
 Can there Ite a hiijher tribute paid to any 
 comprehension of every man. You cannot i man tlian this which I have just (pioted ? 
 cast tlieni asidr. They are illustrations ' l><>es it not speak in eloi|uent lan','uaf,'e of the 
 pointed <mt year by year' Ask the Protest- j kindly ami <,'enerous feelin^f which prevails in 
 ants of (^)uerM'c lu.w they feel about it ? Let 1 the province of Quebec towards the minority t 
 me just read the oi>inions of some Protest- 1 The Jlon. Mr. Joly recently visited the 
 ants. 1 shall read from an othcial report - province of ( (ntario, and spoke and adih'essed 
 the sessional papers of the province of Que- ' meetings at Toronto and Kingston. ] 
 bee, a statement by JS. P. |{obins, LL. J), j should like to read from one of liis speeches 
 Principal of the McUill Normal School. He j a tribute that he paid to the majority in his 
 says, and 1 think these words should go own province. Mr. Joly stands very high 
 throughout the length and breadtli of tlu^ j in the estimation of all the peoph" in this 
 l;iii(| : [country as a man of honour, of fibility, and 
 
 ,,,,,, ., ■ , . 1 r !•» ' of great retinement. lie is a Protestant. 
 
 I sliimlil ill) h'ss than jiistu'c to leaiimg |)iiliti- p i • , • i -i 
 
 dans of all shaik's in this proviinv if 1 w,.|f not to \ fU'd speaking recently in ( )ntai-io, he said : 
 state my ailiniration of the attitmh' wiiicli they 
 maintain towaiils Khu'ation. l)niinL; an associa- 
 
 As to the I'lUu'ational rights of tju' minoiity, he 
 
 , 1 .1 ■ . ■ 1 .1 11- I ilesiifil to point out that Su' .lohn Hose, in tlic 
 
 tionof more than tlurty years with the I'"1-1k' 1 ,,..,,,,.. „f ,s,;.-, ,.., Cmfeileiation. ha.l showi, that 
 
 ).i, on 
 
 eilncation ot <i>iiehee, an assomatlon wiiuh lias re- 
 
 i ,11 1 » . 1 1 If i- 1 .1 iiK.' ri"iu oi seiiaiaie t-imeii 
 
 neatedlv oionuht me a snitoi- on henalt ot eclneation ,, . '^, , c\\ i i e 
 ! •' ^ ^^, 1- ■ n c 11 I-.- , Irotestants ot (Quebec hell 
 
 into eontaet with men ot mtlnenee ot all liolltical ' • ■, i 
 
 dehate of ISt 
 
 tile right of separate edneatioii was aeeorded to tin 
 
 ire the Union, « hen they 
 were in a minority, ami entirely in the hands of 
 tlie rrenehCanadiaii niajoiity. The ilistiilmtion 
 of the State funds for edneatioii under that loii- 
 ditioii of alVairs was entirely satisfactory. A like 
 statement was to lie foniiil in the re])ort of the 
 Commissioner of IHIMI on the eilneation of the 
 minority in (j)iiehee. I )iirinj,' all those years there 
 had heen the same lilierty, the same justice to the 
 minority. 
 
 He goes on to quote, that in certain ui 
 
 J" 
 
 parties, I have found a universal desire for the 
 
 siiread of |io])iilar education, a willingness to listen 
 patiently to the \ iew of ])raetieal edneators, a wide 
 love of fair play for the ediieational litrhts of the 
 minority, and a determination to hold the preeioiis 
 interest of edmation aloof from the tiirlmlent 
 arena of politieal jiarty strife. 
 
 A large portion of tliat relates to the time 
 when Protestants had no law to protect 
 
 them and they had to rely simply upon the ] their institutions one coultl not gain the ad- 
 kindly feeling of thtur Catholic neighbours, | vantage.s, in a medical or legal cour.se, that 
 who recognized that they wei'e entitled to ! were jios.sessed by some of the Catholic uni- 
 all they received. They did not* require a j versifies, but when attention was called to 
 law to protect them. V)Ut when the question , it an Act was passed, putting the Protestant 
 was raised at the time of conf(;deration, Sir universities on the same level as the Uni- 
 (ieorge Cartiei' pledged himself to see that j versify of Laval, which has removed every 
 .such a law was passed, making it hard and l possible complaint which could exist. And 
 fast. He knew the character of those whom now, T should like to draw attention to the 
 he represented, and the moment C^Hiebec lie- 1 opinions in England on this ipu'stion of 
 came a province of the Dominion, a law was i whether it is be.st in all .schools that we 
 passed by the local legislature giving to the j should give our childi'en some religious iii- 
 minority everything that they could po.ssilily strut'tion. This (|uestion has excited a good 
 desire. I will now read from another ses- j deal of attention in the mother country, 
 sional jiaper a resolution moved by the head , and in ISSti a royal commission was i.ssued 
 of the Church of England in that province, and a number of distinguished gentlemen, 
 and seconded by Sir William Dawson. It is j representing the different churches, were 
 as follows : \ asked to take up the question of education 
 
 and report upon the subject. On that com- 
 mission were the Earl of Harrowby, Earl 
 Beauchamp, Frederick Bishop of London, 
 Cardinal Manning, Baron Norton, Sir F. R. 
 
 On the motion of the Lord Bishop of Quebec, 
 seconded hy Sir William Dawson, it wa.s lesolved : 
 
 That the Hon. (iedeim Ouimet, having on Mon- 
 <.lay last completed the 10th year of his adnnnistia- 
 
 *S> 
 
31 
 
 tnirtion in 
 ('oiiiiiiiiti'f 
 
 \VV to pllU'f 
 
 iiiiil ahility 
 r/ifil iiiul li> 
 liit'li, imiltT 
 1 lias iiiailc. 
 
 (lid to luiy 
 ;t ([uoted '? 
 la^'f of the 
 pt'('\ nils ill 
 
 miiiority 1 
 isited the 
 I julth'esst'd 
 li'ston. I 
 is speeches 
 ji'ity ill his 
 
 very hijih 
 )j)le in tills 
 ibility. Mud 
 Protestant. 
 
 lie said : 
 
 iiiiiiorit} , lio 
 I'lisf, ill till' 
 sliDWiL that 
 
 1()|(1('<1 to iln' 
 
 111, w luMi tlii-y 
 
 :li(' iiaiiils of 
 
 (listriliutioii 
 
 tT tliat con- 
 
 iiy. A lil«' 
 
 ojiort of tlif 
 
 tioii of the 
 
 yoais tliiTO 
 
 ustici' to the 
 
 ct'i'taiii i-it' 
 ;ain the ad- 
 ■uurse, that 
 lUholio uni- 
 |s called to 
 Protestant 
 lis the Uni- 
 iu\ed every 
 Ixist. And 
 ion to the 
 luestioii of 
 that we 
 feli;;ious iii- 
 ited a ifood 
 f count I'V, 
 iwas issueil 
 gentlemen, 
 •hes, were 
 education 
 |i that coni- 
 •wby, Earl 
 London, 
 Sir F. 11. 
 
 Sandford, Sir John Luhhock, and a laiice 
 nuniher of the leadiiii,' men of the day. That 
 coiiiniission occupied some two or three years 
 in its iiKiuiry and made a most e.xhaustive 
 report. They took up this ipicstion of cihica- 
 tion.notonlyasitatl'ected the three kiiiniloms, 
 hut also as it affected all Kurope, the I'nited 
 States and C'anadii, and 1 will read a few of 
 their conclusions in re<,'ard to this (piestion 
 of rcliiiioiis instruction. 1 will just read' an 
 extract or two from their report. They 
 refer to the fact that in France and other 
 countries where religion has been })ro- 
 scrihed in the public schools, these schools 
 are deserted and pi'ivate schools are estab- 
 lished, althou^di they are taxed for the sup- 
 port of the; public schools. They say : 
 
 As to loligious iiistiuction in the iinlilic .siiiools, 
 it is not jiivcu in France, HoUainl, aiul Italy (hut 
 ill Italy rcli;.'ions instructions may he given, if 
 asked for outside of .seiiool liour.s). In < ieiievii 
 and Xi'ufeliatel the instrnetioii is secular. In jjerne 
 and /iiriih religious instruction is given. In \'aud 
 religious teaching is said to he givfii from a histor- 
 ical point of view. In Ticino, ndigious insi ruction 
 is not compulsory, hut in all the schools r)f the 
 canton the priest of the |iarish teaches the cate- 
 chism of the Homan Catholic Church in the 
 ordinary school hours. 
 
 In i'lelgium the communes may lie given nligioiis 
 teaching at the commeiiceinenl or at the end of the 
 school hours, hut children are exenipted, at the 
 rei|uest of their ;ia'elits, from atteiuling such 
 instruction. 
 
 In .Austria the religious teaching is under tilt! 
 su]KTvisioii of the church authorities. 
 
 In l>a\aria religious instruction is part of the 
 (jurriculnm, and is given hy the parish ])riesl. 
 
 In IfoUaiiil the school piemises may he used, out 
 of school luuirs, for religious instruction, and in 
 ISS.'i, (i'_*( I school premises were used foi' that pur- 
 Jiose 
 
 111 Hungary re'igioits instru''ti(Ui is given acccud- 
 iiig to the denomination, the memhers of the deiio- 
 iiiination jirovidiiig it. 
 
 In Norway I lie Kvaiigelic Lutheran religion is 
 taught. 
 
 In Prussia religious iiistriiction is coiii])ulsory. 
 
 In Saxony religion is taught to I'rotostants hy 
 the master, in ('aiholic schools hy the iiriest. 
 
 In Sweileii religion i.s taught, hut children of 
 parents who profess a foreign faith may he exemp- 
 ted. 
 
 In W'urteinhurg, we aie told that a third of the 
 whole school time is devoted to religious instriu;- 
 tioii. 
 
 We ajipend to this ehaitter the replie« (.sent 
 through the Foreign Office and tlu; Colonial OHice) 
 to our circular of iiii(uiries as to the systems of 
 educati(Ui now in force in the leailiiig countries of 
 Kuro])e, in our principal cohmies, aud in the 
 United States of .America, as regards religious and 
 moral training in elementarj' schools. 
 
 After hearing the arguments for a wholly secular 
 education, we have come to the following cou- 
 <.:lusions : — 
 
 M.) Tliikt it is of the highest importance that 
 all children should receixf religious ami moral 
 training : 
 
 {'2.) That till . \ ideiice does not w.iirant the con 
 elusion that such religions and moral training can 
 lie amply provided otherwise than throiigli the 
 medium of elementary schools ; 
 
 (.'{.) That in schools of a dcniminaiioMal char- 
 acter to wliicji parents are compelled to scn<l their 
 children the paieiit.s ha\e a right to rei|iiire an 
 operative conscience clause, so that care he taken 
 that the I'liildieii shall not suffer in any way 
 in conse(|Ueni'e of their taking advantage of the 
 eonscielice clause : 
 
 (4.) That inasmuch as parents are compelled to 
 send their children to schonl, it i.-. just and desirahle 
 that, as far as possiMe, they should he eiiahled to 
 send them to a school suitahic to their religious 
 coli\ ictions or preferences ; 
 
 (.').) We are also nf <ipiuion that it is of the 
 highest importance that the teachers who are 
 charged with the luoi'al training of the scholars 
 should continue to take part in the religious in- 
 struction. We should regard any separation of 
 the teacher from the religious teaching of the 
 school as injurious to the moral and secular truiii- 
 ing of the scholars. 
 
 What I'ould be more pusitivc ur iiioi'e satis- 
 loi'v than that ! The first men nfljii' a;j;c, 
 selected from the \arious chur<'lies, mcfiing 
 toc;cther, and knowing the xarious systems 
 that prevailed over Kurope and America, 
 draw those just and fair conclusiniis. I 
 have ([uoted from the tinal ie[i(irt of the 
 commissidiicrs on elementary education, 
 PSSS. I should like to add that in our [uib- 
 lic schools in ()ntari(i, as they wer*? original- 
 ly establislmd, reliction was intendetl to be 
 tauj^ht. I ha\(' in my hands one of the 
 early reports made by ])r. Kycrsun, who, as 
 every one familiar with Canadian history 
 knows very well, was the gentleman to 
 whom our common schools system is largely 
 indelited for the fundamental juinciples 
 on which it is .based and which have 
 led to its erticiency to-day. He was sent 
 abroad to examine the systems in Enj^land, 
 (Icrmany and the I'nited States, and I 
 should like to read a few extracts from une 
 of his reports on this (|uestion of religion in 
 the si.'hools. He was a man of \«'ry large 
 ob-servation, and one whom I always found 
 fret' from prejutlices and posse.ssed of a fair 
 and just mind. He says : 
 
 In F'rance, religion formed no jiarl of the ele- 
 meiitrtiy education for many years, and in some 
 ))arts of the United .States tilt: exaiil|ile of Fraiici! 
 lias heeii followed. Time is rei|uired fully to 
 develop the consequence of a purely godless system 
 of |)uliiic instruction. It rei|uires a generation for 
 the .seed to germinate, a second or thinl for the 
 fruit to ri|ien. 
 
 However, the eonsetpiences have heeu too ,soon 
 manifest hoth in France aud America. 
 
82 
 
 'rill' I'iiikIi < iiiMiiinniii Ims t(ir iimiiv Vfitis 
 riiiplnvt'il its iiKist >.trciiiU'iiM (Vert iniiN III iimki' 
 irli;,'iou.><iiistnicti<in uiH'MHfiiliiil |iiirl nf fltimiiliuy 
 I'lhiratiiiii ; ami i'X|it'i'it'ni'(,'<l iiirii ami tlir imiMt ' 
 ili»tiii>.'iii»lifi| riliiiatioiial wi'lttTs in the I'liitfil 
 Stall's. s|)iiik in slrini;; tflliis nf tlii' ili|i|iiial)l(' 
 (•iiiisci|iH'ii>'rs ri'siilliii).' fidiii tlu'al>s(;mf i)f iclij,'ji>us 
 iiistniition in I heir scliouls, ami caiiiiiHtly iiisint i 
 iipiin its altsnliilr ntrrNsily. 
 
 'I'lic lil'aitical iiiiiillilciLfC v\ liicll lliis r\i--trii In 
 ii's|n'rt (11 llii' ('liiislian cliiirailfi of mil unvii 
 sysli'lli nf |Mi|illlMr nllli illinll is truly laliirlltalili'. 
 Till' iimissinii nf ( 'iiiistiaiiity in rcs|iri't luitli to 
 scliouls, ami till' iliaiai'ttT ami i|iialiliiatiiiiis uf ' 
 tfai'jlfls, has plrvailnl tn all extent fearful to enll- 
 lelii|)late. Tile edlllltry is tint ymillji yet tn w itiiess 
 tile full ell'i'l s nf siiili an nlliissinii. suell all alilise 
 nf llial wllieli slinlllil lie the |)rilMary element nf 
 
 eiliH'atioii, « itliniit w liieli there can lie iin ( 'hristiaii 
 eihieatinli ; ami without a Tin istiaii eiliieat ion t here 
 will lint lnn>{ lie a ( 'hiistian enuntiy. 
 
 On a Mulijei t sn vitally inipnitaiit, fniniin^, as it 
 lines, till' vefy Imsis nf the future ehiiiaetef ami 
 .sn.'iiil stale of t hiseniiiitiy, asiilijeet tnn, resjieetiny 
 w hieh there exists iiiui^h errnr. and a ureat want of 
 iliformatioii, 1 feel it neeessar> In ilwcll at .some 
 leni,'tli. iinil tiiailililee the lest iiiioiiy of the most eniii 
 iieteiit authnrities, who. without liistinetinii of seel 
 nr eniintry, nr fnini nf jinv t'lnineiit, assert the ali 
 snluteiieeessity of iiiakiuu ( 'hristianity the liiisisaml 
 the eeinent of the striietuie of piillie eilueat ion. 
 
 The sentiiiieiits of iMiu'lish I'rot. slant writers, 
 ami of all classes of lirilish I'rolestaiils. are too 
 wi'U known to lie aililiued ill this place ; ami the 
 fact that the principal nlijectinii which has lieell 
 made nil tlu' part of the aiillmi it ies and ineiiilieis 
 nf the I'nmaii Cathnlie ( 'luireh • ci'itaiii ciilleiie4s 
 proposed to lie eslalilislied in Ireland, relates loan 
 allei,'ed delicieiiey ill the pin\ isioii for ( 'hristiaii 
 iii.struetion. evinces thi^prevailinj.; seiitiiiieni ot that 
 section nf our fellow siilijects. 
 
 I hfive, (if t'oufs*'. H iruod deal nt' iiit'iuiiiatidii 
 tit' that kiiul, liui I (in imt tiiiiik it is qtiite 
 t'aif to weary tlic I Imisc w itli it ; 1iiiw(>\(M-, 
 1 .sJKMild liko ti) point out .smiitM'x ideiicc tliat 
 J)i'. Iiycisons propliccie.s have Ik'CIi to a 
 coiisidciahli' extent fiiltillcd in tlic Kastcni 
 States, wheiii tills system of scjiaratiiin- (Jud 
 ffoiit tlic seltools was first iiitrodiu'wl. An 
 aftiele in the llostoii Hrnii'niy I'oxt contains 
 tilt' foUowinn; : In an add fess delivered by 
 tile l\ev. Dr. Sliaw, lie — 
 
 urged the recngnition nf rcliiiinii in Imtli schnnls 
 and universities. He ref,'retteil tlu' mnwinj: leii- 
 deiicy to soeulaliHin which is iinw appearing in the 
 ])reseiit reactinn against si'paratc schnnls and ad- 
 vised the leaders of the nioveiiieiit in Maiiitnlia and 
 Oiitaiin to he careful least while they ask for liread 
 they liiid they are getting a stone, lie ijiinted 
 from the transactiniis nf the I'reshyterian .Synod 
 of New York showing the alaiiniiig growth of 
 secnlarisin in that state, as illustrated liy the fact 
 that ill some cities the lUMe is iu;ver read in the 
 pulilic schools. In nine cities |irayer is never heard 
 and ill fifteen religious instruclinii is ]iositiv('ly for- 
 hidden, and in ISS4 the State Superintendeiit 
 otlieially decided that religious exeici-ses eaunot be 
 
 peiiiiitted diiriii;; school hours. The preacher con 
 sideredtlie local option principle now recommi'llded 
 fni Manitnlia a.- 1111 safeguard against secularism. 
 He pleaded fnr greater interest in edueatiniml wnrk 
 in the .Methnlist Church, slating the gratifying 
 siu'lis nf progress which exist. 
 
 K\ ideliee nf I he decline of religjnn aliiniig the 
 penple w ho leiniiiii is hardly less aluindani or less 
 truly ollicial. .\ late niiinlier of the Hartford 
 ((onii.) I'lliiiiiiii-i Il<nilil ipintes the l!c\. 1 »r. 
 I'linnry •!■ Ilaynes nf the linston Tremnlit Temple 
 as sfiyiiig, '■ We lia\e raised a gi'lieratinii nf inlidels 
 on the hill sides of New l-'aiglaml. They are the 
 worst liealheli that I tiiid in linston. This cnid 
 agiinsi icisiii lired ill Ni'W I'lngland is the most 
 indigestilile thing thai \M' have to do with. The 
 .saddesi thing in New haigland to-diiy is the old 
 cniintry chiirelies falling in, and the )ien|de ahan 
 dulling all forms of religion." To which the llev. 
 I>r. .\. . I. < million adiled ; "What I )r. Ilaynes says 
 
 is true I lielieve mote ami more in the local 
 
 chiiiili. That is niir main dependence, the Incal 
 church." And the linslnii ll'«/r7///K(/( says : "The 
 reengnitinli nf liotll the Mnstnll pastnls ahnve- liailied 
 is wcirthy nf especial iinti(.'e, particularly so ii.s 
 relates to the position which is here iiiainlailied as 
 tn the central and the necessary iinpnitance of the 
 local church. " The [iiiinigratinn ( 'niniiiissioiiers 
 may populate the " aliaudoned farms, " Inii they 
 caliliot |)re\eiit "the old cniiiit ry cliiirclies falling 
 ill, and the people aliandoning all forms of reli- 
 gion ; their scheine is not likely to touch, i\ en 
 indirectly, ••the saddest thing in New l'',iigland 
 tn-tlay. ' 
 
 T have a great deal more mateiial of the 
 same kind wliieh i do not wish to iniliet on 
 tlie House, Iteeauseany lion, gentleman who 
 desires to jiui'siu' that, suhject knows very well 
 where to lind (il)undane(^ of evidence similaf 
 to that just i|Uoted, not nicfely from Catii- 
 (jlie aulhoiities, hut from I'rotestant .sourees. 
 I I may, liowever, tjuote ii pastoral issued on 
 that suhjeet a few days ayo by the Bishop.s 
 of <^iuel)ec. It is as follows : 
 
 The parciiN who lia\c iei-ei\i'd children from 
 
 ( lod with the .luthority to liiiiig them up pro|ierly: 
 
 the pastors whose duty it is tn tench and to enfoiic 
 
 the ili\iiie law ; the heads of the .state, whose 
 
 i duty it is to support iiitelligeiitly and eliicieiitly 
 
 the pastors and parents ; tin ediicatnrs nf ilijldreii 
 
 , whose mission is to complete in the schools the 
 
 I work of till' parents ; all those who love the chureli 
 
 I and their count ry must have it to heart to see that 
 
 the education is sound, and such as tn form excel- 
 
 lent! hristiaii, honest, virtunusaiid learned eiti/elis, 
 
 devilled tn their eniiutry. 
 
 Over the schnnls, which are fniinded liy juivate 
 initiative or liy the state, it is diit^ of die church 
 to exercise an attentive oversight, in order tn ex- 
 clude any teaching, which might lie contrary to 
 ('atholic doctrine. .Moreover as religious education 
 'should pmu'ress liy the side nf intellectual culture, 
 I the ecclesiastit'al anthnritics can and shniild reijiiire 
 I that no one destined In the teaching of the {'hris- 
 tiaii doctrine shall he chosen and ap|ininted with- 
 out the ratitiealion of |irevious apjiroval of those 
 ! whom .lesus Christ has intrusted with the care of 
 [ preserving intact the sacred deposit of faith. * 
 
Itclll'l' lOtl 
 >IIIIIM'l|i|('il 
 
 I'l'iilai iNiii. 
 iiiiiiil \\ iM'k 
 Ki.itifyiiiK 
 
 iiiiiiiii,' till' 
 
 aiit iir' Ifss 
 
 llaitti.nl 
 
 l!(\. I>r. 
 
 lit 'ri'iiipii- 
 
 of inliilcls 
 •y lilt' till- 
 'I'liis I'lilil 
 
 till' lllllMt 
 
 villi. 'I'lif 
 Ih till' <>M 
 'iipli' aliaii 
 li Ihc l!i'\. 
 ayiii'S .-ayi 
 II till' li'cal 
 !, tlu' llH'lll 
 lyN : •• Till- 
 lovr iiaiiii'd 
 arly so as 
 Intaiiu'il as 
 
 llll't' nt till' 
 
 iiiiissiiiiii'rs 
 
 ■ lint tlit'V 
 
 Ill's t'alliuj,' 
 
 Ills of ii'li- 
 
 Olli'll. '■\rll 
 
 w l''.ii^laiii| 
 
 ifll of tlie 
 illllii't 1)11 
 man who 
 \ oiy well 
 •e siniilai' 
 nil ('at)i- 
 soufces. 
 issiiiul oil 
 liisliops 
 
 lilit'ii from 
 |)ro|u'ily; 
 to I'liforcf 
 
 iti', wliosi' 
 •liiricntly 
 if I'liililicii 
 hools tllr 
 111' cluircli 
 [o si'O that 
 iiin I'XOfl- 
 'il ritizt'lis. 
 
 !>■ |ii'i\ati' 
 
 ■ iliin'i-li 
 
 ■ to t'X- 
 
 iiitrary to 
 I'lliu'ation 
 al culture, 
 il(i i'ci|uire 
 till' ('Ill-is- 
 itctl with- 
 al of those 
 lii^ laie of 
 lith. * 
 
 TlifMc sMcrnl ii;;lii- of thi' .liin.li il is '.luiy ill,. |,i iii.'i|,||. ihai ijio -.I'liaralisrliools of 
 
 ami linn iiiii'iiiioh I aiiilaiii in all llii'ii I'liliril \ , ii,,.,,,.; ,. i i i i .1 . i 
 
 V I ..1 . 1 1 .1 -I • ''iilJiiio iiir 10 III- iit ickn, a 11 I lal ii' 
 
 .No iloiilil, M'lv ili'ar IpII'IIiIi'II. Ill a liilM'il soclclv | 1 1 1 1 • • ■ . 
 
 sui'li asoiiis. thai IS ,'oni|M..,i',| ot wi-lily .iillViin.u ^'""'l'' "'"'^^ '" l"is aiil a so.iriv ihal lias 
 
 li'lijiioiis I'liini'llls, il would In- ijillii nil to t'\|li'i't H'lflllls liorli r»,tai)|is||ri| fill I 111' a\n\Si'(| |i|||' 
 
 Ihal |K'o|ili' will ri'.'oj.'iii/|. ill llii' itoinaii Cliiiri'li |,i,M.|,f |iiilliin; ijowii Itiiiiiaii ( 'al liojiiisni 
 
 .■.'.•lain ,.,vro«ativ.'> whul, il midil .'.,]..> in an I'V ||,. ,„,,„l, ,„., .,,• ,,j^ .,,|,| ^^^ j,, , ; 
 
 i'li|s|M'|\ ( alhohi' I liy. I hi' ( alholli' I'liiili'li, • •,• , ' i-ii v ■ j 
 
 whosi' oii^'iii 1,11 this ri.'iilinciit. ilali's fioin 1 1„, '^'i.'lllll'filil hll.T-, ••(.|..\., amj prorni I- 
 
 riailli' ot Aini'iiian ri\ ili/iitioii anil whiih lius iiol '" "•''i.V ■ 
 
 .'casi'il iliii iiii; ini.i I' ihaii ihnr itiiI 111 irs, iIiioiil'Ii 1, , . , . 
 
 ilsa|.oMtli.saii.l,nissi..Mali.s. losp,,'a.llhilii..|,lof , ' ' "ir ' \ '"."l """ ■•"•'" '" i""-' ' I"' '"I'ld 
 
 Chrisiianilv owr this .'..iinirv. la.i h'^il imalils r."r'',"' ^ '• ' ''rU'iaiAHioiis. iiotal.lv 1 hi' >o,is of 
 
 d.tiin wilhonl. Ihi'ii.for.' I„'in« sailiUi'd will, a •'^l^'"'! ■""'""■ '•'imil.an IVo Iiw Asso.'ial, 
 
 iioiii.ii. si'i I tax. . hi' li^hi of i.ii„;,iii^ ,m H,,. "'7fj''' y'''''i'>- "'•''!'. )-';'''''''''■■; '' '""••"""".'-'" 
 
 .■hihlri'i. wl.oa.vi.ilnisi.'il loils .'an. in Uii' taithi ::'\''"''''\'r l'''";-. /^ ;^ 
 1,1, ;. 1 ,1 . 11;; . ,1 111 , lias lii'i'ii lii'ii'i'h alia. 'ki'il II'. I'll V, w.' ^11.11 I ii'iii 
 
 lit tlicir lalhi'is. anil ot ;;i\ 111:.' to llii'si' .'hij.iicn an' ..1 . ii .<> ' . . 1 .......i. 
 
 I,, ,; • , ■ -Ti .1 I' •• 1 I I'Mil.rr Ihal ( )ianL.'.iii. 11 till. 1 .\i' Hi'ii ::i.i>» \ Mil., 
 
 I'.hl.all.iii .'..iLslsli'liI Willi Ihr irllul HIS jil in.llili's ' . ,1 j 1111 .■ • ,. 
 
 .. 1; 1 .1 ,. .,.| ■ • .1 .' I • •. 1 !.■ iii's.'iili'.l, an. I w.' ^ I i.'ii-tori' not i.'H'nc 
 
 which llii'Viiniti'ss. I li.'ii' Is III Ihal, wi' |in..laiiii It. ' ,1 . 1 . . . 1 • , 
 
 .. .- ■ 1 • .• I' . 1 '. . I ,'ll'' .'Xan^clali'.! stal.'lii.ni, ma..' l.v inlil .'.>l('. 
 
 iliMU'sli. t Ills 111', ot (laliiial .'.Hills , lililih'lU'i' ! ,,11,, .. . ■• t • '. 
 
 „i f ■ i' ....'. ■' ' , I I'lii'iniis aiioiit an\ ..liii mi.'H' \ with aim, of a 
 
 anil of .,orial i'.-..n.imv wlil.h is inlimali'V .011 1 ., ■ ;i . ' w " . ., , 
 
 , 1 -,1 ,1 '. I • , . .' ,1 • ■' . ihaii.'i siinllai to mil ..wii. \\ i' ,1011 . .'irl.iiiiK 
 
 ni'ctfil with till' \ital iiiti'icsts of this loiintrN . I ,.. , ,1- -.i 1 i- ,, • 
 
 '••I /. 1- .1 1 •. . I 1 syin lalhi/.r w ilh. ami ,is tar as |ios.-,ili r 1.1.111,1,11.' 
 
 I hi' ( ana.lian ijiisroiiati' has iicviT hi'sitali'il, US IS ,; ;,,' ■ , , . ' i.i.n. 
 
 ... Ill . . 1 II • " Ilh, aii\ soi'ii'l V w liosi- unat jMii pi.M' 1., to iiiiMiii 
 
 well kmiMii, to ti'aili <iii all iK'i'asions iica.'i', .'.ni- ,. . • 1 1 ■ 1 ? .•' / ,' 
 
 1 . 1 !• I • 11. . .1 I an orL;aiii/.'.l liiiiai.iv ti.iiii ni iim tr.'i- .\im'iu a 
 
 I'oni, nilllllal roil I. ('life, 11 sllicfic ova v o th.' 1 • ,1 -.i ,1 ' r . . . 1 ■> 
 
 I,.,., ,, I ., 1' ., , .,-' ,' I 111 ari'oi'.jam'i' w nil ihr I ir a !•> II II' 'i.|ii . 
 
 I'ditish Crown, ami it holies that, thanks lo ihi'i 
 w isii ami linn iiili'ivt'iilion of our Ir^islators, ami 
 thanks als.i l.i ihr fairiu'ss ami spirit of romiljal i.m 
 of till' srvt'ial rlrnu'iils w hirli niakc ii|( I ln' |io|nila 
 tiiin of Caiiaila, ihi' iiiirasiiii',s wliirh .iiliially 
 fxisls ill ii'ilain |iio\ iiiri's .shall >ooij li.' i.'|)l,i.'.'.l 
 liy a fci'linn .if ij.'m'ral salisfart ion. 
 
 Tiiti.sc words liri'atlic |ii'iiicijili's of |iefic(' : 
 Llit'i'c is iiotliiiit,' to jiiiocr or irrilatc aiiyliody. 
 It is an aiijical on tiic very lii^dicst Ltrouiid.s. 
 1 liave fell it my tluty to make tliosc ronmik.s, 
 liocatise I sec that tlici'c is to he an .attack 
 ii}ioii th(,' s('[iaiatc si-hool system in ( )iitario. 
 Vt a ftsoent gatherinj,' of a vciy iiii|iortJuit 
 body, witli wiiosr doinos the lion. Minister of 
 Trade and ('oinnicrce has, no doiihl, in the <iowaii, who was the liist ^raiid iiiaslcr, and 
 past lieen Msry familial', this deeljira- estalilishcd < >iaiiueisni in Canada. I w.isin 
 tion on tlie snhject of se|i,ii'ate schools was I'ai'liameiil with iiim, and I may say lliat I 
 made iiy the leader of the ui'ganization fiiiiii iie\t'i' found in liim any of lliat intoleranl 
 < )iitafio : spirit that is inaiiif.'stid in th.' e.\t rai.'ls 1 hal 
 
 Now, tliosc I Wo so.'i.'lies ,'ire said h. he in 
 ereasiim in nmiieri.Ml --t ren^i li and .ire ;it 
 tackinic oiir scli.iol vv-,i.'iii, if .m.' i-; i,, Im' 
 lie\e tlie slatem.'iils IJi.il a|i|ieai aliollt tlielii 
 in the new s|ia|ier,. I am e\.t'f(lin:,dy sorr\- 
 that I he < )ranuei(i'(l.'r lias sei'ii lit lo take ii|i 
 tiie I'lid-els. If llioy will look a I the e.irly 
 records of the society, tiiey will lind that 
 those feeliiios did iml |)re\;iil in days i,'(iiie 
 hy. It was my fortune to sit in I'.ir 
 liament with tlie rir-.t. second and third 
 ;,'i'aiid maslers of ih.' < >rani;.' oroaiiizatioii, 
 and, perhaps, the fourth. I km-w < *;.'l,. |{, 
 
 'riii'i'i' .'.III III' no donlit that th.' in.iph'.if Onlaiio 
 arc awakening' lo the fa.'l that the si'|iaialc school 
 laws at |(i'csi'iil in font' f.iiiii the most diicct \iola- 
 tioii of llicsi' |)i'im'i|ili's. .\s ( )iaiij,'ciiicii wc ol.jcci 
 tosepiii'iite s.'liools on pi'iiii'i]ile. \\ c ht'licvc tliciii 
 to he unjust to the Koiiian ( atholie pe.iple iheiii- 
 selves, and we know tlieiii to lie a .s<>lil'ce of national 
 weakness ami disintei^iatioii. I am one of those 
 wlif) liolii've that all constiliilioiial acts may lie 
 amemleil in liaiiiic.iiy w itli the onward iiuucli of pro- 
 jii'css an. I the w idciiiiii; conscioiisiiess .if free. loin, 
 from ai,'e to age ; so I do n.it a.lniil the truth of the 
 position that lieeaiise sejiaiate schools Mere coii- 
 tiniieil in existence liy the ISiilisli \ortli Anieiica 
 Act they are therefore to exist for ever. 
 
 Now, this is a Ni'i'y s(>i'imis declaration, 
 made liy a ,i,'eiitleiiian who professes to sjipak 
 for !i very lafn'e body of jieople in this eotiii- 
 t fy. Tt. is very much lo b(! regfettcd that he 
 should have gone out of his way to lay down 
 3 
 
 J lia\i' just i|Uole(l. < »n I he colli laiy, I cm 
 show that in a division on this separate 
 school ([uest ion, even .Mr. (J. .wan volid willi 
 me. 1 1 is successor, .Mr. I!eii jaiiiin, alwa\s \ ,)( - 
 ed with me on those semi relin'ious i|ucsi ions. 
 .Mr. .Vndei'son, who wa- the (iian.l Treasurer 
 of the ofder, and whom I knew \ery inti- 
 mately, \()(ed with iiie. Il so happened in 
 the old Parliament of Canada, th.ii it was 
 my lot to take charge of a good many bills 
 of a semi-rcdigious charactei', ;ind .Mr. lienja- 
 niiii and Mr. .Vnderson, as a nil.', supported 
 me in those measures. I f.iund id intoler 
 aiiee in them ; they \\cre respected liy the 
 order, ;ind they kept the order in subjection 
 .and good temper. The Hon. •lojni I lilyjird 
 C.amoi'on, once a grand master, recorded 
 many votes in .Parli.iment in support of 
 
84 
 
 
 ininonty ri-jlits. T iiM'ulInn diis to slmw 
 tliiit tin- iiilnltTiitit s|)iri( \sliicli is 
 ii(»w iniinit'cslfd diil not prevail in llni^f 
 (lays, 'I'lioHt' tit' lis who wen- in I'lif 
 litiliK-nl wci't! >,'u<i(i t'lifiid-*, aiiij wIhii 
 tlume Mcmi irli«iMus (|ii((stiMiis cuiiif up. ilicy 
 (lid mil sc|iai"iti' lis. Wliy is il llial 
 we liuvr t'allrii on siii'li iiittcr liiiii-.s? Why 
 is it, tiial iiiti)N'ruint' i.s Itt't to our day and 
 ;,'('iirialioii f I siniposc it all s|iiin!,'s i'liiii 
 this iinfoitiiiiati! .Nl.iniloha (|ii('stioii, wliiili 
 in cnfiiliiiK di.scord and inijiaiiin^' tlic har 
 inonv which should |ii'c\ail llii'oiiu'lioiit tin- 
 Dominion. I do not \sant to lakt> up too 
 much of thi' time of the lloii.sc, Wul those 
 tvv4) motions lia\iiij^ lifcn moved toj,'etlier, I 
 will dispose of any ohseivatioiis that I 
 have to mak(' on the seeond one, the school 
 question in the N'oltii west Teiritoiies. I 
 had the hoiioui' of hein;; a meinlicr of tlie 
 (tovcrninont at tin; lime the Act lelat 
 iiif^ to tlie Nortli -west was passed, and 
 1 know what was intended, ('eitainly, it 
 was ijitended in passinij; the Act of |S7r», 
 that it was to he a chatter foi- all time to 
 come, MO far as tlie school (piestion is con- 
 cerned. At the timt!, there were not vt'iy 
 manv people in the Nortli-west. Tiie lary- 
 est portion of tlie population at that tiiiu! 
 were Catholics, hut since then, the I'lotcs- 
 tant element has lart,'i'ly increased, and out- 
 iiumhors the Catliolics. lUit the intention in 
 ))assinn that Act was to make permanent, 
 for ever the ri<,'hts of the minority to sep- 
 arates sdiools. When the (h-aftof the hill wjus 
 hroufj;ht in first, the educational clause was 
 not included. .Mi'. lUake w,is not then a 
 inemlHM' of the (<o\ernment lie had yone 
 out, and I sliould like to draw attention 
 to Mr. iJlake's ohserxations on the omission 
 of the educational clause, from the Act re- 
 latinj^tothe North-west Territories as it was 
 orij^'inally drafted. Mr. IJIakc said : 
 
 He rcj^iU'dt'd it as es.si'iitiiil uiidif tlie cinuiii- 
 stiilu'CH iif the ((Mint rv iiikI ill view of llic dt'lilHi- 
 atidii (liiiinu llii' liist few days tlmt a j,'i;iiLrid prin- 
 ciple should lie laid ddwn in tlic liill witli respect 
 to piililic insi luclidii. He did not IhUcnc llial 
 wc (iiielit to intidiliicc into thai Iciiitoiy liic 
 heart Inirnings and ditliciilties with whieli certain 
 (itiicr pditioiif' of this Dominion imd other count lies 
 had l)eeii atllieted. ll sei'ine(l to liiiii, lia\ in;.' re- 
 gard to the fact that, as tar as we could ex)iect at 
 |)rcscnt, the giMii'iiil eharaeter of thai po]iulalion 
 would ite .somewhat analogons to the population of 
 Ontario, that there should lie some jirovision in 
 the constitution liy which they should have eoii- 
 f<_'rrcd upon them the same rights and privileges in 
 regard to religion.s instriiclion as those jiassed liy 
 the people of the province of Ontario. The prin- 
 
 ciple of liicul self giixt'inmi'iil and I he net 
 
 of the ijlieNlioli of plllilic ilislrilcl ion Neellieil to hjlll 
 
 ought to lie the cardinal prim iples of the iiieUNiire, 
 
 What did .Mr. Mackeii/ie say .' lie was 
 then Premier and had charge of the hill. 
 He said : 
 
 A'- to ihc -.nliiect ot pnlilic ill^t ruction, it diii 
 not III the lii<t place attract his attention, Init 
 when he caiiic to the ^ilhject ot local lasatlon he 
 was reminded ot it. Not having had time to ill 
 sert a clailNC on the sniiject, he proposed to do so 
 w hen the liill was in ( (imiiiittee, Tlie clause pro 
 V ided that the IJenteniuit ( iovel'lior liy and with 
 the coiiseiil of his council or iissemlily as the ciisc 
 might lie, should pass all neees.xary ordinances in 
 respect to education, lillt it Wiuild lie specially pro 
 \ ided that the majority of the rate payer> might 
 eslalilish such schools and impose such liecesNaiy 
 a^sessmellt as they might think til; and that tin 
 minority ot llie rate pa\eis, wliethei I'luleslanl or 
 
 It) nil. Ill ( III holic. nag lit eslalili>h separate scl Is ; 
 
 and siicli rate |iaycrs would lie liidile only to sncli 
 educational asMessinellts as they might impose U|ioli 
 ihelliseK cs. This, he hoped, Wduld meet llie 
 
 olijiclion oU'ered liy the lion, inemlier for Souili 
 Hniee. 
 
 Sir I )oiiald Smith, who represented a con 
 stituencv in that country, and, of course, 
 knew a j,'reat deal almut it, alludful to it in 
 his speech. lie said ; 
 
 The point lironghl up liy the lion, memlier for 
 South Ontario was an important one and lie was 
 glad to lind that the l''irst .Minister intended to in 
 ti'o(luce a provision in eominittee, dealing with 
 the sniijecl. 
 
 Ml . Mills also spoke on tla; suhjcict. lie 
 said : 
 
 There was aiiotliei ma,.ei it seeine(l to him 
 ought not to lie disrega, (led ; and that was the 
 terms and conditions under which tliesi' people 
 would ultimately lie foiine(l into a pidvince. It 
 would lie lietler that llie peo|)le who settle in that 
 territory shoiihl know liefoicliand under which 
 they Wduld lieconit! an organi/ed jiart of llu' 
 I )omiiiiiiii. lie saw no olijection w hen the popii 
 lalioii liecaine sniliciciitly large to allow lliat 
 territory to lit represeiiled in the Itominion I'arlia 
 menl liefore it was orgaiii/.ed into a iildvince. 
 
 Further on, he said : 
 
 That country was laUcii possession of by the 
 l''rencli. They estalilislied foi ts at several points 
 in llie Red River 'reiritory and the most west- 
 ern fort was at the l-'orks of the Saskalchc 
 Wiii; Tlu'V had a]ipointed ('a|)taiii La ( 'orne to 
 govern the leiritory under a license from (jtuelicc. 
 The w hole country was occupied liy the l'"ienili 
 ( iovernmcnt as a ))ait of Canada, and was made 
 liy the Order in ('ouncil of ITItl, part of the pre- 
 sent province of Ontario. The late ( iovernmeiit 
 had organi/.cd the provinci: of Manitoha within 
 those liiniLs. 
 
 There was no further del)ate — no one niadi^ 
 any proposition to oppose it. Now, it will 
 
I' »tl 
 iicil III liiiii 
 v iiu'iiNiiri'. 
 
 Ill- \v;iN 
 III.- I.ill. 
 
 ioii, II iIkI 
 
 III ii>ii, 
 
 lull 
 
 ilMlt Kill III' 
 I illK' III ill 
 il I 
 
 II llll Ml 
 
 lIUIIMC |l|ll 
 
 V mill w illi 
 •s the ni;'ti' 
 liiiaiii'CM ill 
 I'lially pill 
 
 yciM iiii^lil 
 li iicrcsxaiv 
 
 III tllMl llll 
 iilrsliiiil III 
 Ic .siIiiiiiIn : 
 Illy III Miiili 
 
 ll|IIINI' ll|lllll 
 
 Illl'I't llll' 
 ' I'lir Suiilli 
 
 t('(l ;i cull 
 (if i-iiuisc. 
 )(l 1(1 it in 
 
 IIU'lllllCI' fill 
 
 iiiiil III' \\a> 
 inlcil III ill 
 ■dViua, with 
 
 jcct. 
 
 Ill 
 
 il III liiln 
 It was I lie 
 
 ll'Sl' |lllljl|(' 
 
 (i\ill('('. It 
 ' ill tlial 
 r wliii'li 
 
 Ul of till' 
 
 lie )i()jni- 
 i>\\ tiiat 
 lion I'ai'lia.- 
 
 if I'V th 
 
 I iiojnl.'- 
 
 era 
 
 most wost- 
 
 >a> 
 
 ili'l 
 
 IC- 
 
 < 'oriu' to 
 
 II (.llH'llt'C. 
 
 was iiiaiU: 
 
 if tl 
 
 U' 
 
 P 
 
 lo\ CI'IllllOIll 
 
 oha w 
 
 illiiii 
 
 DIUl 
 
 llliulc! 
 
 w, il will 
 
 ;J5 
 
 r' 
 
 Il <' 
 
 iii;iilhiii III 
 
 Im> (ilis«'i'\*-)l iliiii in iliitl (li'li.'iic iml :i siiitjli* idin'Hc, ami iIh' IhIIii iim>, for all iitci'M ami urt't'tU, 
 
 III ( V' I II die III I ('KM I ^*'''' lo ai|ii|il lln' xii^mciliuM iif the I iuMTIIIlli'llI a In I 
 
 ... . ■ I .1.. Clialllc I 111' |H'll|l|c III CKlllllliHll Ml'lhllatl' ^1 lllMll-, ill 
 
 W Ms I'lll'I'H'd III llV ,1 . . '. 1 .1 . .1 • 1 ■ 
 
 ,, , I , . I ' thai h'lllliirv, iiiil tlillH itli'Vi'liI till' llilluiliii Hull 
 
 ri'ilcstllMis, 1,'ftll It'llH'M wllii ti'lt lll.'ll lllCV i,f imIh, ( ' - • 
 
 11 Will 1 1 
 
 Tl 
 
 IC \\ lllljc (jl 
 
 ImI 
 
 were (iiilv ddiiii,' w liat wa- 
 
 I'diii uliicli Uiiiai'i 
 
 I ill I 
 
 aiiil jiist, and hmI 
 
 ml liiil jiM 
 
 iiiislv lii 
 
 II 
 
 l/lll'll( 
 
 iclliHclvrs 
 
 had 
 
 I lial I lie |iriii('i|i|cs t licy SNci'c cniiiii'ial 111^ were 
 lliKse wliieli wdiild lie in I lie licsl iiitei'C'Mts | 
 ot'tlial I'liiintiv ill llie t'liiiire. It was not! 
 
 1 1 |s clear Sir 
 
 A I 
 
 eVaiK 
 
 lerC 
 
 Kllll 
 
 lllliler 
 
 necessai'V that lliere 
 t lielll Id |il'( licet I lie 
 
 llnll 
 
 Id I. 
 
 any a|i|ieal lo 
 
 {Ills lit' the iiiindrity. 
 Iicir iiwii sense ol' w'liiit WHS riulil and 
 
 HtlHidllial llie iiill |ict|iel lialed llic svslelii 
 ot .Hc|iiinit«' s»'|i(Mi|s as lliey existed in >)nla 
 rill uiid (^iii'liec What d( 
 
 Ml 
 
 I il'IIW II 
 
 .say 
 
 II 
 
 e savs 
 
 liDiiniiraiili 
 
 liaviiio; III \ i( 
 
 w 1 1 
 
 IC cdiiditiiins 
 
 li\ I Ins llll! ijii'v ini'Mil raise 
 
 III' very sirioiiN 
 
 nder wliieli we live ill this cuiinlry, pre ' issm s in the Nnithwist which hail ihum'.I 
 
 II 
 
 \ ailei 
 
 lie 
 
 I.ill 
 
 went mill coiiiinitlee am 
 
 llll (i|i|iiisiliuii was (ilici'cil Id It 
 
 I t W lis 
 
 ti'iiiilijcsoini' iiil^ini'lici' aiiil I Inlario. No mii' wmiiil 
 re-let this iiioi')' than iic, ami foilhlM iciinoii he 
 woiiM sii|i|iiii'i the iiKiliiiii of till' lion, iiiciiilier fur 
 
 t'l'lTcd lit in till' |ii'css. liiil iKj line tiiiik ev j |'|.,.|. 'I'll.' iiioiiieiit this Acl wa.s piiMscil. ami tli( 
 ('e|iliiiii Id it as Mr. .Mills said, il was well | N'oitli west liei'iune part of ihe iinioii, ilicy cain 
 
 iliat |icd|ili' slidiild kniiw liefdre lidiii;^ in 
 
 I,, i illnh'l the I'llioll Act, ami tlliilcl' llic pldviHJoliNW illi 
 
 tlial 
 
 cdiinti'V under 
 
 at cdtidilKins 
 
 iIkv 
 
 l'ei,'al'i| to scpanitc .Hchnol 
 
 icre LTdiiiLt tliere. 'llie llmi. (led. Urnwii 
 
 After 
 
 disciissidii the lldiise acce|iteil it us 
 
 was liieii a iiieiiilier df this lldiise. He ] a linalily. The lldiise dt' <'diiiiiidns liad 
 liad always d|i|)dsed se|»ariite sclidols, ImI ' accc|iti'il it iiiuiniiiidusly, and lliis lldiise dii a 
 diice tlicy were cstablislii'd, Mr. I'mwii divisidn after ili.scussidii, After the defeat of 
 never aiiidii inti'i'iid.sed li«' never .smiglii lu the .Macken/ie ( idvernincnl, tlie (|iiestidii 
 lircak ii|i llie system. He was cdnscieii eaiiie ii|i aj,'ain several times and everyliody 
 I idiislyd|i|idse(lld t lie inil iat idiidf the se|iariile i cdiisidercd il a set I led matter, and nodiie .su^ 
 sclidui system, and in InUl', when llie parti- ' ^^ested t hat itslnuild lie reopened. The hill 
 
 ciiiar 
 
 w 
 
 hill I 
 
 d wine 
 
 liavi 
 
 aii'cadv alluded \vas intrddiiccd in the lldiise (if ('diniiidiisdn 
 
 as passed, he dppdsed il, lint after it liecame the l.'ithof .March and it stdod d\ei' until 
 
 law he was nidsl anxious I hat it sIkuiIiI the Isl April, so that the country had ample 
 
 lie svdi'ked out ill the way liest suited for oppurl unity to Lrisc expression to its views, 
 
 llio.se for whom the law was enacted. I n if anylxidy thouiihl il was important eiiou^'h 
 
 IS7-") I had charifc of (he North west Terri- |o arouse the peojile and excite an aijilation 
 
 lories I'lill in this lluiise and llicsiiliject was j aLfidnst it, liiit so far as I can tiiid. the press 
 
 fiillv discussed here nil that dccasidii. I and the people took lit tie or no not ice of it. 
 
 t liink it was .Mi 
 
 likiiis w lid iiidM'd In s( rike , At tent ion was called to t he .\cl in this House 
 
 out the 1 I th clause. .Mr. limwii, .Mr. .Miller, in ISIti. The Hon Mr. Has ilaiid presented 
 
 ject- 
 
 anii 
 
 mvsr 
 
 If al. 
 
 ipidled a part nf M r. .Mill 
 
 cr 
 
 a\e 
 iiieccli 
 
 alreadv 
 
 •til ion from I'riiici 
 
 •,(lwar(l 
 
 am 
 
 l.dh 
 
 I d. 
 
 not think it is ncces.saiy t hat I shniild iniotcithis H 
 aiiv more of it il was all in the same din i 
 
 iiit; to se|iai'ale si 
 
 iidol in till! North-wifst, hut 
 
 dlise HHI 
 
 iply sat iipdii it and wmildnot 
 
 le was called In dider. 
 
 It 
 
 came up a^^'ain 
 
 .•diisKJer I he mat ler. 
 tidii, that rai'liaiiieiil had a lii^lit In lay ' | think, .it llietimi 
 ddw II a HmmI principle now. when they were i ISSli, when .Mr. Ilirard made the speech to 
 estalilishiii.y a new ud\criimeiit in the Nditli j w hidi I have just alluded, and cdii,i,'ratiilated 
 t Territories. He referred in llie fact i the House mi lia\iii<i settled the inatter so 
 
 wcs 
 
 that we had settled the iiuesliiin as far as satisfactoiilv in the case o 
 
 f .M 
 
 inilooa. 
 
 It 
 
 .Manitdha was coiicciikmI, and it was desir came up attain in |SS7, and in ISSN, aftor 
 alilc that it should he settled so far as it ! which the (pu'slion was allowed to rest until 
 apiilied Id the Northwest Territories. What Mr. .McCarthy hrotiifht it to the iiotico of 
 dill Sir .Mexander Camplieli. who was then the House of ('omnidns in ISOl, wIkmi he 
 
 leader ot the ( )ppositioii, say 
 It woiilil lie iiiiich to III 
 
 (1 
 
 nieiit passi 
 
 yicllcil if the aiMcnil 
 (1. 'I'll.' slllijci't of llic hill was to eslali 
 
 moved the motion aj^ainsl tlicdu.il lani^uaj^e 
 and the separate schools. 
 
 I am afraiil I shall hase to ask the for- 
 
 lisli ami perpetuate in I he North west 'I'l riitoiics ifivoiiess of the House for having kept them 
 
 till' .sain 
 
 (■ systi'iii as pi e\ aildl in Ontario ami l,> 
 
 \>vv, ami which liail wmkeil so well in the intcn'st 
 of lit'iice ami haiiiKiiiy with the ililh'iciit po| 
 tioiiK ot those pi'oviiicus. He thoiiv'hl the fairer 
 
 too loni; on this suhject, hut really it is a 
 la- ^'•^'■y iniportani one, and it is just po.ssihh 
 
 that .some of the facts to which I have drawn 
 
36 
 
 P *! 
 
 ;U t('ii( idii iii;i\ liJiM' till' cITccI in some \\;iy nf 
 i|iii<'l iiii; iiiildic n^itiil inn. I shall lie \rrv Lrbid 
 if it, li.is tli.il ('ilrcl. 1 lia\c nut imintcil mit in 
 uny Nv.'iv liDU' I think a rcmiMly can lu' pri)- 
 'vidt'd. 1 (In not think it wise or pi'udcnt at 
 t nis .stiii^c t,i) iMitcr u|Hinthai discussinn. ft 
 is iint'iirt niiatc that when the (|ticstinii lii'st 
 came up the agitation was nni nipixMl in tlic 
 hud i)y Ji \<'t(). I think it' it had liccn, no 
 ay;itation would liavt- arisen, that it would 
 have been accepted as a rii,dil and lu-oper 
 tliiu!;' to do. 1 will do the ( io\ cinnient the 
 credit to Ix'lieve that had they supposed the 
 filial det(!rniination of tlie r'ri\y Council 
 W((uld have left us in the ditch as it has, they 
 ii(>vei' would have ])((ruiitted it to no tlier<'. 
 I>ut no puMic man who understood that 
 (lupstioii thou.yht it was possilile for any 
 triliunal on (^arth 'o coi..c to the absurd con- 
 clusion the I'rivy ('ouncil lias alisiirdly 
 illoifical, absurdly contrary to the facts, ab- 
 surdly in ignorance of the condition of tiiinns 
 existiuif there. .\11 i^'ciillemeii who are at all 
 familiar with the two Canadas know this very 
 well andunderstand it. Thereis no mystifying 
 any such gen tlemaii as to what denominational 
 schools or separate schools mean. Unfortu- 
 nately the Pri\ y Council ilid not po.ssess that 
 knowledge. It would really amuse lion, gen- 
 tlemen, if they \\diild take the report and 
 wade through it as 1 ha\i' and read .some 
 of thf^ arguments upon it, and the absurd 
 (jUestions that were put to counsel 
 by the members of the l'ii\y Council 
 utterly ignorant of the conditions of 
 the federal system. They do not know 
 on th(> other side thr .\ W C of the federal 
 sy.stem. Since this lloine Utile (|uestion 
 has come uji they are beginning to learn 
 .;ometliing about it. but when .Mr. < iladstone - 
 bill was introduced in ls,s(i. e\en Mr. (ilad 
 stone himself oouM not comprehend the 
 federal system when he jiroposed to exclude 
 the Irish members from the liritish i'ailia 
 UKMit. 'r';.',t was his idea of granting home 
 rule. .\ny iatesman in ('anada could h.-nc 
 told him that it w.-i.s not in conformity \sith 
 thefedeial principle to lease Ireland iinic- 
 jiresentcd in the lm]perial I'arliamenl. Tf 
 i\lr. (Uadstone had had a Canadian stat(>s- 
 man at his elbow, he would not have landed 
 in such a predicament as to ha\'e a federal 
 liarliaiiieiit with no re|ires"nlative from oii<> 
 member of the union. Of course they ha\c 
 since learned more about federal and jiro- 
 viiicialautoiiomy, but (hey did not understand 
 it (hen. 1 haxc tlioiiixht, myself, that there 
 
 was one way in which this (|uestioii might be 
 sol\('d. lion, gentlemen are (juite aware 
 that we have a \cry large area of lands for 
 the beiielit of t h(^ schools in .Manitoba and 
 the North-west. We have kept control of 
 those lands ourselves. Tliey liavcMiot passed 
 under 1 he jurisdiction of the local authori- 
 ties that I am aware of. 
 
 lion. .Mr. P,I:I;MEI!-You are right. 
 
 Hon. Mr. .SC()TT~\Vheii I was a mem- 
 ber of the (Jovernment, T always said that I 
 did not think it was prutlcnt (hat tho.se lands 
 should fall into the hands of the Provincial 
 ( lovernment,s at this period of the history of 
 the country. In Michigan, we know of (he 
 magnificent provision they liavt; made for 
 higher and elementary education. We can do 
 the same for tlii^ North-west without injustice 
 to any iiUerests. We can give to the public 
 schools of (he North-west all they recjuire, (mi- 
 rich tlieni,aii<l there willstili beemaigh left to 
 satisfy jirobably, (he supporters of separate 
 schools. That may be tht; solution of (he 
 dirticulty. I have not consulted anybody 
 ill giving e.xjtression to this view, but it did 
 occur to my mind that the spirit that pre- 
 vails, unfortunately amongst the people 
 against the separate schools, may bo too 
 strong a tide to stem at present. I (|uite recog- 
 ni/e the position and iicknowledge the ditli- 
 culty existing at present, but T lia\e thought 
 that ])ossil)ly, that was the way to sohe tlu' 
 problem. There is an abundance of land still 
 unallotted in that country sutHcient to place 
 education in .Manitoba and the Nortii- 
 west on a very high ])lane, and there are 
 millions of acres that will be worth millions 
 of dollars in, I think, not too distant a 
 future. Tlio.se lands can enrich higher and 
 elementary ed'ication if properly distributed, 
 held until their value goes up, as the Canada. 
 Coin]iaiiy held their lands formerly in Can- 
 ada, until population went in and gave an 
 increase(l \alu(> to (hem. Lands that away 
 back in the thirti<'s and forties could not 1)(* 
 sold for 2o c(>iits an acre, afterwards sold for 
 S|o and Sl'O an acre. History will repeat 
 i{self in (he Nor(li-w(>st. The time is coming 
 when (he rnited States will have (o depend 
 upon the North-west for their food supply. 
 1 hope we will live to see the time when 
 lands in the .North-west will realize good 
 prices, when as we have made liberal allot- 
 ments for school purjioses, statesmen in the 
 future may see tluMr way to protect (he 
 
37 
 
 il lllCHl- 
 
 i(l thiit I 
 osc lands 
 roxinuiiil 
 listory of 
 )\v of the 
 iiiide for 
 \\' can do 
 injusticp 
 lie ])ul)lic 
 i]iiii'(', I'u- 
 i«rli left to 
 scpai'ato 
 311 of llie 
 aiiylxKly 
 lut it (lid 
 that pre- 
 peoplc 
 lio too 
 (' reooij;- 
 le (litli- 
 tlioiij,dil 
 
 )lvt' tlK 
 
 iiul still 
 to i)lac(' 
 Nortii- 
 ei'o are 
 I lit lions 
 stant a 
 icr and 
 libiiti'd. 
 Canada 
 in C'an- 
 ga\(' an 
 it away 
 not 1)(' 
 sold for 
 1 repeat 
 coininn' 
 depend 
 supply, 
 le when 
 ■/.e ifood 
 al allot- 
 I in the 
 eet the 
 
 niinnrily ri<,dits in that way from the inter 
 t'ercnee of their intolerant neinhlioiirs. if a 
 lieltei- feelini,' does not ere then arise. 1 hope 
 that this wave of intolerivnee which is now 
 sweeping; over ( )ntai'iu and the west will 
 jiass away; 1 ha\c no doubt it will. 1 havo 
 seen it before. Anybody who looks back for 
 a period of years knows that from time to 
 time just such (ixpressions of bigotry have 
 arisen in the community, but tliej' were short- 
 lived. Yet they did much misciiief at the 
 time, and in some iiistiiv\ces they left bitter 
 feedings behind. I am in hopes that a better 
 day is dawinng in the country and that these 
 ([uestions, dillicult now to deal with, will at 
 a latter date, under the control of other 
 nuMi, be solved in a way satisfactory to all 
 parties. 'I'liat is my sincere wish. T hope 
 that that may be the result. T desire, as 
 we all desire, to .see nothing but jjeace in 
 the country ; we will have peace wht!ther 
 the minority a.ie deprived of their rights or 
 not. They can bear the loss witlf fortitude 
 and resignation, but F do not think it will 
 be pleasant for the majority in the country 
 to feel that " ( )wing to a decision which 
 is unjust, the minoiity are deprived of 
 certain rights and they never more will 
 enjoy them, although they wei'e promised 
 them by the majority." I do not say that 
 the minority will feel aggrieved with the 
 majority, but they will feel that they were 
 not treated fairly, not ti'eated on an equal 
 liasis; but the same friendship will prevail 
 and we will all join in making this country 
 tine of the tiuest in the world. Yi't there will 
 
 always be the remains of that feeling (hat in 
 an imjiortant matter, atVecting rights that 
 ai'c dear to tire hearls of the minority, 
 they were deprivtul of those I'ights by foul 
 play, not by ih'ilish fair- jday. 'Phey will 
 fe(d that had this ([Uestion been relegated 
 to the Sovei'eign, as (juestions of this kind 
 a thousand year's ago were, it witulil ha\e 
 been decided very differently and I think it 
 ought to be the occasion of our once 
 and for all cutting off any appeal 
 to a coui't made up of judges who do not 
 ^eem to understand the (piestions arising 
 under' our' constitution. Ft is simply a sen 
 timental matter', r'efer'ring a ([Uestion to Her 
 Majesty, when we know that she takes no 
 pai't irr its settleirrent, and we know then; is 
 not the sarrrf! car'c exercised iir the Pi'ivy 
 Council that there is irr our oi'dinary courts. 
 And we know the Judicial Conirrrittee can- 
 not possibly be as familial' with the corrtH-t 
 inter'pretation of (|uestions arising under our 
 stature law and moi-e particulai'ly under 
 our' constitution as the judges of the Siipr'cme 
 t'ourt of Canada are : and 1 think it would 
 be prudent in the future to r'estrict appeals 
 to that court and especially that n^fer'ciices 
 urrder' the Supi'cme Court Act should be 
 limited to that court. The ]irestige of the 
 •Judicial Committee of the Privy Council has 
 now gone, at least in the opinion of the 
 Catholic minoi'ity of Canada, and they should 
 irrar'k their' sense of the wi'oiig thus inflicted 
 on them by advocating that the refer'* .ice of 
 similar' (piestions t<i the Supr'enre Court Irer-e 
 aft(M' should be iin.'il.