IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) A 4^ A- I 1.0 1.1 1.25 ly ^ |£° 12.0 ■ 22 i? / Sciences Cdrporation 33 WIST MAM snttT wnsni,N.r. usio (714)373.4303 v '§^ ^ : ^^V 6^ »-Asf CIHM/ICMH Microfiche Series. < I CIHIVi/ICJVIH Collection de microfiches. Canadian institute for Historicai IMicroraproductions / Institut Canadian de microreproductions liistoriques Technical and Bibliographic Notes/Notos tachniquat at bibiiographiquaa Tha instituta has attamptad to obtain tha bast original copy avaiiabia for filming. Faaturas of this copy which may ba bibliographicaiiy uniqua, which may altar any of tha imagas in tha raproduction, or which may significantly changa tha usual method of filming, are checited below. D D D D Coloured covers/ Couverture de couleur I I Covers damaged/ Couverture endommag6e Covers restored and/or laminated/ Couverture restaur^ et/ou pelllculte Cover title missing/ Le titre de couverture manque Coloured maps/ Cartas gtegraphiques en couleur Coloured inl( (i.e. other than blue or black)/ Encra de couleur (i.e. autre que bieue ou noire) |~~| Coloured plates and/or iLustrations/ D Planches et/ou illustrations en couleur Bound with other material/ RailA avac d'autres documents Tight binding may causa shadows or distortion along interior margin/ La re liure serr^e peut causer de I'ombre ou de la distortion le long de la marge intArieure Blank leeves added during restoration may appear within tha text. Whenever possible, these have been omitted from filming/ II se peut que certaines pages blanches ajouttea lore d'une restauration apparaissent dans la texte, mais, lorsqua cela Atait possible, ces pages n'ont pas 6tA filmtes. Additional comments:/ Commentalraa auppMmantairaa: T t( L'Institut a microfilm^ la meilleur exsmpiaire qu'il lui a AtA possible de se procurer. Les details de cet exemplaire qui sont peut-Atre uniques du point de vue bibllographlqua, qui peuvent modifier une ima^e reproduite, ou qui peuvent exiger une modification dans la m^thoda normala de f llmage sont tndiqute ci-dessous. r~n Coloured pages/ D Pagea da couleur Pages damaged/ Pages endommagtes Pages restored and/oi Pages restaurtes et/ou pelliculAes Pages discoloured, stained or foxe< Pages d^colortes, tachat^es ou piquias Pages detached/ Pages ditachtoa Showthroughy Transparence Quality of prir Quality in^gaia de I'lmpression Includes supplementary matarii Comprend du material supplAmentaIra I — I Pages damaged/ I — I Pages restored and/or laminated/ r~T| Pages discoloured, stained or foxed/ I I Pages detached/ rri Showthrough/ I I Quality of print varies/ I I Includes supplementary material/ T P o fi O b tr si o fil si o ! W M di er bi rii re m I — I Only edition available/ Seule Edition diaponibia Pages wholly or partially obscured by errata slips, tissues, etc., have been refilmed to ensure the best possible image/ Les pages totaiement ou partieilement obscurcies par un feuillet d'errsta, une pelure, etc., ont M flimAes A nouveau de fapon A obtanir la mailleure Image possible. This Item is filmed at tha reduction ratio checked below/ Ce document est filmA au taux de reduction indiquA ci-dessous. 10X 14X 18X 22X 26X 30X >/ 12X itx 20X 24X 28X 32X Th« copy film«d here has be^n reproduced thanks to the generosity of: Library of the Pubiic Archives of Canada The images appearing here are the best quaiity possible considering the condition and legibiiity of the original copy and in Iceeping with the filming contract specifications. Original copies in printed paper covers are filmed beginning with the front cover and ending on the last page with a printed or illustrated impres- sion, or the back cover when appropriate. Ail other original copies are filmed beginning on the first page with a printed or illustrated Impres- sion, and ending on the last page with a printed or Illustrated impression. The last recorded frame on each microfiche shall contain the symbol -^ (meaning "CON- TINUED"), or the symbol y (meaning "END"), whichever applies. Maps, plates, charts, etc., may be filmed at different reduction ratios. Those too large to be entirely included in one exposure are filmed beginning in the upper left hand corner, left to right and top to bottom, as many frames as required. The following diagrams illustrate the method: L'exemplaire film* f ut reproduit grAce A la gAnArosM de: La bibiiothdque des Archives publiques du Canada Las Images suivantft^ ^nt US reprodultes avec le plus grand soin, compte tenu de la condition et de la nettet* de l'exemplaire film*, et en conformitA avec ies conditions du contrat de fllmage. Les exemplaires originaux dont la couverture en papier est ImprimAe sont film6s en commenpant par le premier plat et en termlnant soit par la dernidre page qui ccmporte une empreinte d'impression ou d'illustration, soit par le second plat, salon le cas. Tous ies autres exemplaires originaux sont fllm6s en commen9ant par la premiere page qui comporte une empreinte d'impression ou d'illustration et en terminant par la dernlAre page qui comporte une telle empreinte, Un des symboies suivants apparaftra sur la dernlAre image de cheque microfiche, selon le cas: le symbols —^ signifie "A SUIVRE", le symbols V signifie "FIN". Les cartes, planches, tableaux, etc., peuvent Atre fiimte A des taux de reduction diffirents. Lorsque le document est trop grand pour Atre reproduit en un seul clichA. il est filmA A partir de i'angle supArleur gauche, de gauche A droite, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images nAcessaire. Les diagrammes suivants lliustrent la mAthode. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 i IRELAND AND CANADA; SUPPORTEO BY LOCAL EVIDENCE. Bt THE RIGHT HONOURABLE SIR ROBERT WILMOT HORTON, Bart., G.C.H. DEDICATED, BY PBRMIS8I0.<, TO HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN. LONDON : JOHN MURRAY, ALBEMARLE STREET. MDCCCXXXIX. The folloimng Images were i^rintecl previously to tJu appearance of Lord Durham a Report. I I.on,lon: P.inl.d l.y ^V. (^,.owk6 milH-s^'^.^X^^^A^i,,.^^ TO THE QUEEN. t Convinced of the deep iiiterest which your Majesty feels ill the happiness of all your Majesty's subjects, I feel grateful for the permission granted to me to inscribe to your Majesty a publication intended to prove the facility with which suffering in Ireland may be converted into comfort and prosperity in the British North American possessions, by the application of principles consistent with the soundest maxims of political science. The difficulties which appear in the minds of some inquirers to impede a system of colonization carried on upon a scale worthy of the British empire, have originated in misconception, and have been greatly exaggerated. But were those difficulties still greater, the real question to be considered is the proportion which (hey bear to the national advantages to be obtained and to the national duties to be performed. It undoubtedly behoves practical statesmen to ascertain the obstacles which impede their policy : but it is the glory of a great state to overcome such obstacles, where national interests are involved. In submitting a proposal for improvement to Cromwell, a man of practical science asked, " Can anything of this *' nature seem difficult to a state resolved to do good to its a2 IV DEDICATION. " people? Difficulties are the bonds of narrow minds, but " such is not the heart of a state." Successive Govern- ments, and successive Parliaments, have considered this subject, but have shrunk from the performance of the great practical duties which their investigations ought to have enforced. For many years I have endeavoured to urge these argu- ments on the Government, the Legislature, and on the Public. Reflection and experience, as well as the authority of some of the most enlightened philosophers and statesmen, have confirmed the principles which I ventured to lay down. If I again bring the subject before the public — if I have presumed to solicit the honour of inscribing my publication to your Majesty — it is because I am convinced of the neces- sity of adopting an enlarged and generous system of colo- nization, for the purpose of promoting the best interests of your Majesty's subjects, and of strengthening the con- nexion between your Majesty's European and North Ame- rican dominions. I have the honour to be, Madam, With dutiful respect, Your Majesty's Devoted and most humble subject and servant, R. WILMOT HORTON. Sudhrook Parky January, 1839. P K K F A C E. In a publication of mine, in the present year, tlie following opinions are expressed upon the state of Canada: — Colonization of a similar character might now be effected at a LESS rate of expenditure. The subject is too important to be dis- cussed incidentally ; but the proof, as to the economy of a measure for colonising Irish pauper agricultural labourers, for whose labour there is no demand in Ireland or Great Britain — and, secondly, for whose labour there is also no adequate demand in a British colony like Upper Canada — is the plainest imaginable. If such demand did exist there would be no necessity for colonization, which is"an] expedient onJy 1o be resorted to when the labour- market in a colony is drugged and can for the moment absorb no more. I am preparing a publication specially on this subject; but I may here mention that the test of the economy of such a measure was pointed out in the clearest manner in the eighth resolution of the select class of the members of the London Me- chanics' Institution. After having; summed up the whole subject in the previous resolutions, the eighth resolution records that * in reference to national wealth, if the expense of emigration be less than the expense of home maintenance there would be a decided economy instead of an apparent expense in the application of national capital to the purposes of regulated and assisted emi- gration. The strongest objection which has been preferred against the policy of colonization, as a national measure, is the presumed ex- pense involved in it. It is remarked that it is very true that an VI PREFACE. Irish pauper is much happier in Canada than he would be in his own country ; but then it is asked, what expense is necessary to remove him ? It is admitted that he is not wanted in Ireland — it is admitted that he is wanted in Canada — but still comes the question, who is to pay the money for his removal ? If, for the sake of argument, it be admitted that there are a thousand mar- ried labourers in Ireland, with a wife and three children each on an average, forming a body consequently of five thousand per- sons, and if it be also admitted that there is no demand for the labour of those thousand labourers in Ireland, and that they have no species of property, it is self-evident, that vnlcssthey are sup- ported in some manner they must perish. Let it be supposed that they are supported at the miserable rate of 2d, per head per diem"; this 2d. per head must either be the gift of charity or the result of spoliation. The annual expense, therefore, of main laining these la- bourers and their families in their own country amounts to 15,208/.; but, according to the evidence of Lieutenant Rubidge, which I am about to publish, and who has been nineteen years a settler in Canada, supported by the strongest previous evidence, these one thousand labourers might be located as colonists in Upper Canada, at the expense of 60/. per family, or 12/. per head, equal to 60,000^. A perpetual annuity, therefore (I employ this by way of illustration), of 2000/., the funds being at 90, would en- able a loan of 60,000/. to be raised ; whereas, independent of the increase of these parties in Ireland, supposing them to be charity- fed, their maintenance at lOrf. per day per family constitutes a perpetual annuity of 15,208/., which represents a capital sum (ceteris paribus) of 456,240/. instead of 6 0,000/., the sum neces- sary for their colonization. Of course I am arguing on the hypo- thesis that there neither is nor is likely to be a real demand for their labour in Ireland or Great Britain. Surely common sense points out to any person willing to think, that a perpetual annuity of 15,20S/. per annum is precisely as much a tax in principle upon Ireland as a tax of 2000/. per annum, under which they might be colonized. The policy, there- I I £ ^ T PRKFACi:. Ml % I I '\ fore,'of efTectinu; th.^ colonization ot'such parties, and converting them into happy and wealthy yeomanry in Canada, as compared with tiie policy of keeping them in Ireland as miscrahle paupers and beggars at 2(1, per diem, is in the exact ratio that a perpetual an- nuity of 2000/. per annum bears to a jjcrijctual annuity of 15,208/., or that a capital sum of 60,000/. bears to a capital sum of 456,240/. An emigration of labourers who expatriate themselves with the view of being absorbed as labourers in the first instance in a colo. / necessarily has its limits, which are measured by the real demand in the labour-market; but their colonization with due assistance, supposing an indefinite supply of fertile land, has no definite limitation. I trust that the day may soon arrive when truths like these, which have slumbered in the unread reports of the emigration committees of 1826 and 1327, only to be revived in the resolutions of a select class of London mechanics, may find some favour in the Houses of Parliament, and be matured into measures of substantive relief for Ireland. The Irish Poor-law Act will have the efl'ect of an optical instrument, and make certain truths aijparent, which hajjpily can uoiv no longer be concealed. I will not be tempted to add more in this note on this momentous subject, on the due comprehension of which the prosperity of Ire- land and the repose of England depend. I addressed a letter to Mr. O'Connell in November 1830, now eight years ago. This letter was published in The Times* I then told him, * that I was prepared to show that, as far as the emigrant was concerned, emigration, when duly assisted by capital (in other words, judicious colonization), had produced the greatest change from human misery to human happiness that had ever been recorded in the history of mankind;' and I alluded especially to the experimental emigrations of 1823 and 1825. The publication in which I am now engaged will, I think, convince the most sceptical of the truth of that assertion. I hope tiiat I have satisfactorily retleemed the pledge which I gave upon this occasion. * Republished in the Text df this publication. I J « :*'■ ft- jl 4 C O N T K N T S. PAOK Sttite of Ireland 9 Letter to D. O'Coniiell, Esq., M.P., printed in Tmvs, November, 1830 10 Sir R. Wilmot Horton's speech on Emigration, 1819 ^*^ Opinion of Mr. Duchfttcl npon Emigration lleport. 13 Sir II. W. Ilorton's letter to Mr. Malthus, on Poor- Lawsin Ireland, 182*7 1^ Ditto letter to Mr.'^Senior, on Employment in, and Emigration from, Ireland 21 Identity of Archbishop Whateley's late Report with the letter to Mr. Senior, in 1829. . . 25 Extract from the Glohe newspaper, 1th April, 1838, on the Poor- Law Report 26 Answer of Mr. O'Connell to Mr. Landor ... 21 Original apathy of Mr. O'Connell to the subject of Emigration 28 Resolution of Mechanics' Institution on Emigra- tion, in 1831, involving the whole principle. 29 Doctrine of Mr. McCulloch 32 Ditto Mr. Ricardo • ^4 Ditto Sir R. W. Horton '1>- Statement by Lieutenant Rubidge, R.N. ... 37 Queries and answers, Nos. 1, 2, 3, relating to Lieutenant Rubidge . . . . • ^' Ditto 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, respecting the Government Emigration of 1823— 25 37,38,39 Ditto 9, 10, 1 1, comparative advantage of sending out colonists with families, or young married couples 10. Ditto 12, expensesof colonization of 1823 — 25 . ih. Ditto 13, in^ortant distinction between emigration and colonization **" Ditto 14, 15, 16, and 17, colonization .... 41,42,43 Ditto 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, probability of re- payment by the colonists 43 to 46 CONTENTS. PAGtt Queries and answers, Nos. 25, 26, value of property belonging to colonists 46 to 52 Ditto 27, 28, comparative economy of colonization (much less emigration) with the expense of maintaining paupers in Ireland 46 to 55 Ditto 29, 30, relating to Lieutenant Rubidge as an old settler . . . • ib. Ditto 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, British manu- factures and state of the colonists . . . . 56,57,58 Ditto 38, personal to Lieutenant Rubidge ... ib. Ditto 39, present state of colonists of 1828 ... ib. Ditto 40, 41, comparison as to the facility of pro- viding, at the present timey provisions for colonists, as compared with 1825 58,59 Ditto 42, 43, Sir John Colbome's colonization of 1831, settled under the care of Lieutenant Rubidge ib. Ditto 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, suggestions of lieu- tenant Rubidge upon facilitating colonization. 59 to 66 Ditto 50, money remitted to Ireland by colonists ofl825 ib. Ditto 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, as to the numbers who might be colonized, and extent of land . . 66,67 Ditto 56, opinion of Lieutenant Rubidge upon Sir R. Wilmot Horton's letter to Mr. O'Connell, Nov. 1830 ib. Ditto 57, queries put to colonists in 1828, by Sir R. W. Horton, and opinion of Lieut. Rubidge • 68 Ditto 58, 59, 60, as Xoih^ present state of Canada, with respest to colonization 7 1 , 72 Ditto 61, 62, 63, probability of extensive volmn- tary emigratioi: f^ucceeding any regulated colonizacion, ci:rried on by Government . ib. Observations offered to Members of Parliament by Sir R. W. Horton 73,74 Appendix, correspondence with Sir F- Head . . 75 'is. • i' % 9 IRELAND AND CANADA. n I I i '■m Is there any person competent to form an opinion upon the present state of Ireland who can conscien- tiously declare that he is perfectly satisfied with its condition, and thinks that there is no occasion to make a national effort to promote the true interest of that distracted country ? * To let well alone' may be a safe, practical adage ; but ' to let ill alone ' is a maxim as dan- gerous in principle as it is cowardly in conception. It is true that difficulties and embarrassments hem in every great question in a country like England. The interests of the few and the prejudices of the many must be vigorously contended with ; it is the business of statesmen to secure victory on the side of reason. I care not for agitation and misrepresent- ation, the casual incidents of the moment, which blaze like a meteor and dazzle the beholders. Wrse measures founded in reason — which is science, — may not attract current admiration, but the light which they diffuse will be equable and unremitting, as • The eternal lights that live along the sky.' The problem to be solved is ^e regeneration and 10 liappiness of Ireland. The main evil to be corrected, and that which is now all but universally admitted, arises from temporary redundancy of population. Party feelings ought to be sacrificed for one common effort to raise the condition of Ireland, and to direct the energies of her gallant, generous, yet irritable people, towards good, and not towards evil. More than eight years have elapsed since I ad- dressed the following Letter To Daniel O^Connell^ Esq., M.P.y printed in the Times news- paper , November i 1830. Sir, — We are arrived at a crisis in which the forms of ordinary proceeding ought not too strictly to regulate the conduct of public men. If, in your late speeches and proceedings in Ireland, your sole object be to secure to your suffering countrymen, by the repeal of the Union, an effectual relief for the unendurable evils of pauperism, — if it be your sincere belief that a real remedy can- not be afforded, without the national convulsion which must be the inevitable consequence of such a measure ; so strongly do I feel the reality of those evils, that, were I satisfied of your in- tentions, I should limit myself to entering the strongest protest against your proposed mode of effecting your purpose, and should merely pledge to show its utter inaptitude for the object, and to demonstrate that it is calculated to aggravate, rather than to diminish, the disease. On some points I agree with you. For example, in one of my letters to Sir Francis Burdett, on the state of Ireland, I expressed my decided opinion, ' that, unless provision be made for those parties who may be ejected under the operation of the Sub- letting Act, and of the Disfranchisement Act, they will become the most disgraceful and barbarous acts that ever stained the legislation of a free country.' '-a I 11 I now proceed to explain to you the frame of mind which has induced me to addres^s this letter to yo\i. On entering into public life, I soon became the most unquali- fied partisan on the side of Catholic Emancipation. I never pretended to believe that that measure of tardy justice would relieve the physical evils of Ireland, in my letter to the Duke of Norfolk, in 1826, I said, ' I should be the last person to imply that the evils of Ireland are exclusively, or even mainly, derived from the delay of what I conceive to be a necessary measure of pacification and justice; but it is impossible to approach any political melioration of the state of Ireland, without the interven- tion of the Catholic Question. It retpiires a final settlement, as a necessary preliminary to measures of every other class which may be devised for her benefit.^ That question was happily carried ; and, in the consciousness of the overwhelming benefits which were capable of accruing to Ireland herself, and to the empire, from that measure well followed up, was to be sought that compensation for friendships weakened, party ties broken, and personal advancement rejected. That man stands self-con- fessed an unworthy being, who did not rejoice, although the triumph fell into other hands than those which had fought the battle. In July, 1828, when, from my disinclination to connect my- self with any Government which was not prepared to propose the settlement of the Catholic Question, I refused office, I well re- member a friend saying that I should find, when it was too late, that my philanthropy had fallen on the way-side, and that the sacrifice of those who had devoted themselves to the cause would be rewarded by treason, anarchy, and dismembernxcnt. I laughed at the prediction. I argued that, even if it were true that there were individuals who only sought the measure as a stepping-stone to their ambition, to their projects of revolution, separation, and self-aggrandizement, Ireland — gallant, generous Ireland — would never respond to their call. I now ask, when I reflect on past and present events, will she respond, should such a call be made to her from any quavter? 12 One moment yoti tell yonr countrymen, in a letter addressed to the Irish nation, "that the anti-Union cause would be annihi- lated if there was an attempt made to achieve it by force." Upon this point you say, " I desire to be most emphatic. Irish- men, no man but a bitter enemy of Ireland will think of using force or violence. Any effort of that kind would disgust all good men. No man of honour or conscience could counte- nance so absurd and wicked an effort." The next moment you remind them that the problem has now been solved in France and Belgium, *' that an undisciplined multitude, without order and arrangement, can beat down disciplined organized soldiers." — Times^ Oct. 28. How is it possible that you could have suffered such indirect encouragement to bloodshed to escape your lips? You, of all men, who told the members of that Legislature in which you now sit, that you shrank from the appeal to the sword, inasmuch as " the stain of blood was on your hand," and you had " a vow registered in Heaven !" When the trumpeter was taken prisoner, he supplicated for his life, on the plea that he did not fight. " You do worse," said the indignant captor, " you encourage others to fight i therefore you shall not escape your fate." I have no right to impute bad intentions to you or to any man. If your expressions are capable of any other construction, I would be the first to accept the explanation ; but, in the mean time, the word, whether intentional or otherwise, has gone iv^rth, I therefore solemnly call upon the Catholic priesthood of Ireland (for they, too, have *' vows registered in Heaven") to interpose be- tween the hint and the deed, between the tempter and the victim. I call upon the Catholic gentry to come forward, to tell us expli- citly, whether they feel their allegiance to be due to William the Fourth, or to the first sovereign of any new dynasty. This is no time for tampering ; let us know the truth. A dissolution of the Union is a dissolution of English connexion. I know not what measures the Government may be prepared to propose, or whether they have any to propose, for the relief of the unemployed part of the population. Whatever may be their 1 ■'I; ■ft m ■X. I 13 >> ■■I I s I merits or demerits, they nt least have the faculty of keeping their own secrets. But, whatever may be their views, I am at once prepared to maintain that the pliysical evils of Ireland, as well as of England, are mainly, if not exclusively, occasioned by want of employment, arising from superabundant population. It is that cause which affects prejudicially the whole manual-labour class, as well those labourers who are naturally employed as those who subsist upon forced employment, charity, or spoliation. " The disease of Ireland arises from an excess of people beyond the capi- tal forgiving employment to them." By what means, then, can capital be adequately and rapidly increased, so as to cure the evil ? By a repeal of the Union ? Certainly not. By any other means? I equally ato at a loss to point them out. I have never seen the slightest approximation to such an attempt. If then capital cannot be thus increased, how are the evils of a ])opulation too numerous for employment to be remedied ? How is their condition to be raised, occasioned, as it is, by the deteriorated price of the only commodity which they have to bring to market, namely, their labour ? I contend that a mode presents itself of effecting that object, and of produc- ing a remedy, at once cheap, humane, and certain, which the dis- tressed peasantry, if not made frantic by unfounded representa- tions, would willingly and gratefully adopt. Men are not indis- posed to adopt a remedy, when those who have taken advantage of it are unanimous in counselling its adoption. — Part of that remedy consists in regulated emigration, assisted by capital, but not in that unassisted emigration (to which I shall soon have to call the attention of the public) which, it is true, gets rid of the Irish paupers, and so far accomplishes the views of the Irish gentry by relieving them from an incumbrance, but exposes the parties removed to worse evils than those from which they had been tempted to escape. The Emigration Committee protested, in the most unmeasured terms, against the cruelty and selfishness of such an experiment. There are persons both in Ireland and England who may find that 14 they have incurred no trifling responsibility in having disregarded that protest. I am prepared to show that, as far as the emigrant is concerned, emigration, when duly assisted by capital, has produced the greatest change from human misery to human happiness that has ever been recorded in the history of mankind ; and I am equally ready to stake my mblic character on the demonstration, that, under a due systcui of employment, combined with emigration, Ireland may at once be raised from the condition of a miserable and despairing country into that of a prosperous and happy nation ; and this with a diminution instead of an increase of national ex- penditure. I have remarked elsewhere, that, if the House of Commons were to sanction interlocutory arguments between two men, who would stake their public credit on the maintenance of their re- spective opinions, as far as they depended upon matters of fact, much habitual sophistry would be at once detected, anu, if de- tected, spurned and despised. Long declamatory speeches may be well suited to the first opening of a new and extensive sub- ject ; but, in cases where, in order to give effect to a final in- ference, it is necessary to establish every link in a chain of mathematical, or even logical, reasoning, — they are the natural guardians of sophistry and misrepreocntation. Interlocutory ar- gument, on the contrary, allows no important point to remain unexplained, and enables the htarcr or reader to form a decided opinion on the merits of any projjosition. If there was a dispo- sition on the part of any influential portion of your countrymen to have my views thoroughly sifted and examined, there is nothing of a political nature which would give me so much satisfaction as to be catechised bj you on all points of opinion bearing on the state of Ireland, and to have the privilege of catechising you in return. If I were defeated I should retire into private life wi'h perfect satisfaction, and be the first to admit that I was not qua- lified to meddle with such high matter. If I were successful it would be ample compensation fur teu years of laborious inquiry. :4 I J, I 15 '■f % At nil events the publication of such a controversy, carried on in plain question and answer, man to man, might assist in enabling Ireland to form a fair and unbiassed judgment, how far separa- tion from England would tend to remedy the poverty which now oppresses her. — Were it possible that public opinion would sanc- tion sucb a controversy, I am persuaded, that, as an accomplished disputant, you would be the last man in Europe to shrink from such an appeal. Were you to evince a readiness to '* show cause" for your opinions, not in declamatory harangues, which leave all real points of dirBculty unsettled, if not untouched, but in close interlocutory argument, I should at once believe that your vio- lence, however apparently unjustifiable, had been prompted by mistal.pu notions, and despair of better days. It is painful to be compelled to doubt whether your object be truth and justice, or power, to be obtained by desperate and unhallowed means. What commentary, then, will the people of Ireland furnish upon this subject ? Should they prefer to hug their poverty to their bosoms — should they reject the capital, credit, and assist- ance of England, if it be oflFcred to them, which it ought to be— should they shrink from combined exertions and propor- tionate contributions— should they insist upon attempting the cure by confiscation and change, and, as the first step in that change, should they echo your call for the repeal of the Union — if such should be the deliberate conduct of the people of Ireland, and, above all, the judgment of her property and her intelligence, England may, perliaps, be more disposed to acquiesce in such a decision tlian you may be prepared to expect. At least I can answer for one Englishman, whose acquiescence, under such cir- cumstances, woidd not be withholden. I have the honour to remain Your obedient humble servant, R. W. HORTON. Svdhrook'park^ Petersham, Nov. 1, 1830. 16 m 'In M. ill On my return to England, after an absence of seven years, I mainly adhere to the principles and opinions contained in this Letter. I still believe that the great source of Irish misery is a population too large for the capital of the country ; I still believe that that misery would be enormously increased by a rejection of the English connexion ; I still believe that its cures are internal tranquillity and a well- regulated emigration. The one would inevitably occasion the introduction into Ireland of the super- abundant capital of England, the other would diminish the redundant population ; and the balance between capital and number (a balance on which the welfare of every community depends by the laws of Nature) would be restored and preserved. Have the evils Avhich existed in Ireland, when my Letter was written to IMr. O'Connell, now ceased to exist? Sublatd causa tolUtur effectus is the most trite and true of adages. Yet the neglect of that adage is the key, and will be the key, to the perpetuation of the physical evils of Ireland. The evil is a labouring population too large for the capital of the country ; that evil can only be corrected by an increase of capital, or by a diminution of the hands dependent upon labour for support. We cannot suddenly increase capital sufficiently to remove the evil, and the country has hitherto rejected the other, pnd ecjually efficient remedy, — the diminution of the supply of labour. It is vain, in a remedial point of view, to look to the Church or the Tithe •I Ml 1 1 y : I i 17 1 Question, or even to Poor- Laws, unaccompanied by an extensive system of Emigration. Tiieir futility, as remedies for this special evil, will one day be admitted by the whole world. Devoted as I was to the cause of Emancipation, I never for one instant imagined that that great measure for the moral evils of Ireland '"ould be of real practical advantage unless followed up by adequate remedies for her physical evils. So far back as 1819, the first year of my entrance into the House of Commons, T predicted the character of the remedies which would give real relief to the country. In the debate which occurred on the 1st of July, 1819, on Sir Francis Burdett's motion for Reform in Parliament, now nearly nineteen years ago, I expressed myself as follows :* — * That all the * evils of our population would cease if the motion ' of the Honourable Baronet were acceded to, he * CMr. Wilmot) positively denied. The deduction * of the Honourable Baronet, in this respect, was * totally unphilosophical and unwarranted. With * respect to the sufferings of the people, remedies * might be found for them ; and probably the w^isdom * of that House would provide suitable remedies, but ' he did not connect them with Reform. The first * remedy, in his view, was a radical alteration of our * sy^^item of Poor-Laws, — the next was a due encou- * ragement of a system of emigration to our own * Hansard's Pari. Debates, vol. xl. pp. 1479-80. B 18 * colonies. As far as sound political economy, as * far as the progress of political science, could afford * relief to the poor, none could be more zealous than * he was to afford relief.' In 1823 and 1825, in 1826 and in 1827, I took every pains in assisting to lay the foundation of a system of emigration. In 1826 and in 1827 the Reporis of the Committee of Emigration, of which I had the honour of being the Chairman, were produced. In respect to the Report of 1827, Mons. Duchatel, late President, thus expresses him- self in his correspondence with me, published in the * Causes and Remedies of Pauperism :' — * This ' report, where a knowledge of facts in detail is * found blended with the wisest theories, appears to ' me to be one of the most remarkable documents of * the age in relation to the science of political eco- * nomy, and it furnishes a happy illustration of that * mode of Parliamentary inquiry from which you de- * rive so much advantage in England, and which is an * indispensable accessory to representative institu- tions ;' — yet I will venture to say that no public docu- ment has ever been worse treated or more misrepre- sented than that Report. In 1827 I addressed the following letter to Mr. Malthus, in favour of Poor-Laws for Ireland : — 19 i Extract from a Letter addressed by Sir R. W. Horton to Mr' Mai thus y in 1827.* I HAVE heard it observed that it is a very singular fact that, in England, the existence of the Poor-laws is presumed to have led to a redundancy of population, and that in Ireland, although the non-existence of Poor-laws may not have led to the same result^ yet the same result has been produced in the absence of Poor-laws ; and it is inquired, and not unreasonably, how this anomaly can be explained. The explanation appears to me to be of no great dif- ficulty. The administration of the Poor-laws in England has taught the pauper to believe that his right to support from the land is equal to the right of the proprietor. Consequently he has not been deterred from marriage, by the apprehension of the utter destitu- tion of the children who might be the result of that marriage. In Ireland, the extraordinary facility with which land has been obtained by the poorest class of individuals, under circum- stances which are too diffusely explained in the Report and Evidence to make it necessary to repeat them here, has pro- duced the same recklessness on the part of the poor, with respect to the interests of their children, which exists in the mind of the English labourer ; for, although the Irish peasant could not consider that his children had a legal right of maintenance from the soil, yet the facility with which succeeding generations were enabled to sustain life by the occupation of a cabin and a potato- garden, checked all moral apprehension as to the condition of children ; and custom, in this respect, had the force of law, in destroying that moral sentiment which ought to be the basis of society, namely, that it is criminal to be accessory to the bring- ing of children into the world without the power of maintaining them. The effect of the Poor-laws in England, in encouraging popu- lation, mainly arises from the pernicious custom which has existed * Published in the " Introductory Series of the Causes and Remedies of Pauperism," p. 90. B 2 20 of relieving able-bodied paupers. On tbis subject the Report and Evidence are so diffuse as to make it unnecessary that I should re-argue it in this letter. On the other hand, the cognizance of the state of the poor, which the Poor-laws produce, has a tendency to repress any redundancy of population ; and I entertain no doubt, that, if a real vent were given by emigration to the redundant population of Ireland, and if Ireland then adopted a system of Poor-laws, which should mainly resemble those of England, with the im- portant exception of not giving relief to able-bodied persons (which, unless under special circumstances of casualty, should never be done in a single instance), the effect of the introduction of such Poor-laws would be most beneficially to check any future tendency of population to increase beyond the legitimate wants of the country, — in other words, to check any increase of popu- lation which was likely to be redundant. I trust you will agree with me that these are the great and important points to which the attention of our statesmen should be turned with respect to home legislation, viz., first, the correction of the mischievous effects of our own Poor-laws, by bringing about a state of things under which it will be practicable to discontinue relief to able- bodied paupers ; and, secondly, the introduction of Poor-laws into Ireland, free from the taint which has vitiated our own system, and attended with all practical improvements of which such a system would, on due inquiry, be found to be suscep- tible. For example, let it be supposed that every able-bodied labourer, who was in the constant habit of being employed by a landlord or farmer, should be recommended to lay by a portion of his wages, for the purpose of forming a fund, as in the case of a benefit society, for providing against casualty or old age; and let it be supposed that any labourer assenting to this sug- gestion should be employed in preference to any labourer who resisted it, and who contended that he had a right to do what he chose with his own, and that it would be for th ■ parish to provide for him under any contingency — if such a system were to be acted upon for half a century, can there be any doubt of . t' 21 the change winch would be produced in the condition and cha- racter of the labouring population ? It must be observed, that this system ia practically acted upon by higher classes of society who are dependent on their own exertions from year to year for their income. They feel that it is an act of prudence to economize a certain portion of their annual resources, for the purpose of providing against the future ; and it is only the introduc- tion of this principle into the lower classes of society which is ne- cessary to work a most important change in tlieir condition. In 1829 I expressed myself more in detail in a letter I addressed to Mr. Senior (published in the Appendix to the Fourth Series of the * Causes and Remedies of Pauperism'), and which I here reprint : — Extract of a Letter addressed by Sir R. W. Horton to N. W. Senior f Esq., 1829. That, if the redundant labour of Ireland, for example, were removed, and if those parishes in England, which are burdened with a superabundant population, were also relieved, the relief would be general in all parts of the country, although an actual abstraction of labour only took place in particular districts : That it is clear, and established on the most irrefragable evidence, that, if the state were to exert a very small portion of the energy which it has so often devoted to one single nr of a long war, means might be employed, under which, in a short series of years, a}\ necessary proportion of the extra labour of the United Kingdom might be transferred to our North American provinces, with an absolute certainty of individually benefiting the parties removed, the colonies, and the mother-country, in an almost inconceivable degree : That the means of accomplishing such an object would be completely within the reach of the country without additional taxation ; inasmuch as, if there were a bond fide surplus of income over expenditure, of 2,000,000/. instead of 3,000,000/., that surplus of sinking fund would present the most easy and palpable means of efl'ecting this object, to any extent to which it might be expedient to carry it. •22 That it would be per^" .ly correct to state, that colonization could not Rupply a very early remedy, inasmuch as the principle upon which it must be carried on, if properly regulated, is the introduction, in the first instance, of comparatively few settlers, and the subsequent increase of the number in each successive year, in the proportion of one-half addition upon the number of the precedi % year. Thus, for example, it was calculated, in the Report of the Emigration Committee, that, 20,000 persons being sent in the first year, 30,000 might be sent in the second ; 45,000 in the third ; 67,500 in the fourth ; 101,250 in the fifth ; 151,875 in the sixth; 227,810 in the seventh; and 341,615 in the eighth; making a total of 985,050 persons. The emigration of nearly 1,000,000 persons would thus be accomplished in eight years; but if, in the first year, 25,000 were sent out, the process would only require, at the same rate of increase, six years for its entire accomplishment. That, if local improvements on a large scale were made to go hand-iu-hand with emigration, the period of relief would arrive at a much earlier date. If, for example, there were reason to be- lieve, from the evidence of the best authorities, that the bogs of Ireland could be reclaimed with profit, provided the legal impe- diments to their cultivation were removed, and that these bogs, when manufactured (as it were) to a certain point, would sell for a price sufficient to reppy the capital applied to their reclama- tion, vnth interest, there would be no occasion for the state to continue that part of the experiment, inasmuch as, those legal impediments being removed, and the certainty of that return being established, private capital would immediately apply itself in this new and unforeseen direction. This principle would partially apply in the crse of canals to be dug, or harbours to be cleared, or any other work of magnitude beyond thi reach of individuals or of corporate bodies, which, upon the strictest inquiry, bade jair to make a return greater than the return made under the "present management of individuals out of employmenif though below the rate of average profits. Con- sequently, for the purpose of relief to the labour market, not I 23 ! ! ! only might emigration be carried on upon the scale recommended by the Emigration Committee, but early employment might be given by applying labour to these works of national improve- ment, the undertaking of which was justified under the contin- gency above specified. Whenever the works thus undertaken were completed, the parties employed upon them, if no other demand existed for their services, might be progressively drained off by emigration. That it would be an object worthy of this great and energetic nation, by a national effort of this description, to anticipate the slow correction of time, which could only bring relief to the labouring classes by the ordeal of misery and difficulty, through which, for many years, they would have to pass, before the pro- portions between capital and labour were adjusted ; — it being the peculiar object of such a national effort to adjust those proportions by forced means , and such laws and habits being simultaneously in- troduced, as would remove all those artificial stimuli to population, to the operation of which much of the existing redundancy must, in justice, be attributed. That, when we speak of the population of a country being in abundance or deficiency, if we speak correctly, we must speak with reference to these proportions ; and that, provided these proportions were once adjusted, it would be difficult to imagine any increase in the population which would not be desirable, as long as it wan attended with an increase of capital sufficient to prevent its falling into superfluity. With respect to the remedies which 1 should propose to be applied, for securing an improved system in future, 1 cannot look to any which do not involve, more or less, the practical assimila- tion of the laws affecting the poor in all the three kingdoms ; although the means where oy such practical assimilation might be attained might be extremely different in all the thr-'^j countries, but undoubtedly so in the cases of England and Ireland. The basis, hcwever, of any such system must be, in my judgment, the absolute separation of labourers, whose labour is of sufficient value to individuals, to induce those individuals to employ them •24 altogether for their own benefit, from those labourers who may be found in a state of redundancy j that is, who may be found able and willing to work, but whom no person k prepared to employ. For that particular class. I can conceive no arrange- ment to be satisfactory which does not at once separate them, as a distinct class, from those who are entirely employed, and which does not regulate their position, not only by principles of charity, but also, in certain respectsy by principles of police. Whenever the actual restoration of the supply of labour to the demand shall have made it practicable to alter the law in England respecting the employment of able-bodied paupers, the period will have arrived when this proposed change can form part of the law and system of the country. To outer into any more minute details of the manner in which, either in England or in Ireland, such a system could be practically brought to work, would be utterly foreign from the object of a person who is interested in having certain principles recognised, rather than details explained. It may, however, be convenient to describe the effect of such a state of law, rather than the nature of the law itself. It would be this, — that any able-bo .»ed man, who, for a certain number of mouths, should be unemployed in the particular district where he was, should not be entitled by law to claim relief, other than such relief as might be given by his join- ing that class of unemployed labourers which might, under the new system, be brought together, for the purpose of their labour being employed for some local or general object ; such local or general object being, as already observed, for the purpose of positiv-'^ securing the labour of these parties, and of also secur- ing that they should receive as low a rate of remuneration as would be consistent with the conservation of their health. Such a status should be one which presented so little attraction to the party compelled to enter into it, that he should have every moral influence operating upon his mind, to avoid the necessity of belonging to it. Such a system would necessarily operate as a bonu9 upon good conduct ; because the able-bodied labourers (and to no other class am I adverting) who would be retained under 25 individual employers, v/ould naturally be those whose services would be the most advantageous. The class of able-bodied un- employed paupers would at all times measure the real redundance of labour in the country. I would here repeat, that unless this class were subjected to severe labour and a low rate of mainte- nance, it might be a bonus upon population and upon mendicancy * but (as one is not called upon to reason upon a possible abuse) if it were conducted upon sound principles, while, on the one hand, it prevented the disgrace of allowing any able-bodied man to starve in the United Kingdom, it would, on the other hand, afford the strongest moral check to improvident marriages, by deterring the poor from exposing themselves to the severe penalty which must, under such data, be the result of population increasing beyond the rate of capital. But if this moral influence extended to the poor, it must, on the other hand, be the duty of the state to abstain from all mea- sures, in time of peace, which were likely to disturb the true pro- portions, between labour and capital, supposed, under the terms of the proposition, to be restored ; and if, in time of war, it were absohi^sly necessary to resort to measures which would, in their effects, tend to destroy those proportions, it should only be with a solemn pledge of repairing the i.„schief so occasioned, by a recur- rence to the same remedies which had been previously found to be successful. In 1831 I left England for Ceylon, after having given Lectures on the subject of Emigration. In 1837 the Irish Poor-Law Inquiry Commissioners produced their third Report, the first signature to which is that of Dr. Whateley, Archbishop of Dublin, which appears to me to be all but identical with the recommendations contained in my letter to Mr. Senior. Extract from the Globe newspaper^ *lth Aprils 1838. The Commissioners of Poor Law Inquiry for Ireland have 26 taken their stand on a firm and sound principle ; which, like every other such principle which ha» worked its wcy to a slow recognition, has had to struggle through years of misconstruction and obloquy. When, ten years back, Sir Robert (then Mr.) WiLMOT HoRTON, and the Emigration Committee, in successive Reports, propounded precisely similar doctrines, derived from precisely similar evidence, — evidence hardly less voluminous than that collected by the recent commission — the practical men scoffed at their labours ; and certain blasphemous hypocrites de- nounced them, in garbled citations from Scripture, as enemies to God and man. This is the constant reception of all useful truths on their first announcement. It is well that hypocrisy and cant can now only employ the broad-sheet as the medium of their malice against the authors of truths which concern humanity. The power of words over ignorance is greatly filtered when used through the press ; hemlock and fagots are not in these times read * to order* exactly when wanted to stop the mouth of un- welcome philosophy ; and philosophers in the present day need only live long enough to see what, on its first utterance, passed for paradox — pass for truism. What a clamour, ten years back, would have been raised — was raised — by such an annotmcement as the following of the Irish Commissioners ! Assuredly, at that period, Royal Com- missioners would have fenced their position with much expense of very circumspect circumlocution before they introduced such a sentence : — * While we feel that relief should be provided for the impotent, we consider it due to the whole community, and to t^e labouring class in particular, that such of the able-bodied as may still be unable to find free and profitable employment in Ireland, should be secured support only through emigrationt or as a preliminary to it.* It is the great merit of this Report that it has set forth clearly and strongly, and in a manner which pseudo-philanthropists may nibble at, but never can shake, that universal maxim of a sound 'M)licy, which had been almost altogether lost sight of, namely, 27 that a mass of labour neither shouldy nor in fact can, be maintained in any locality where there is not a free and effective demand for it. In the printed answer of Mr. 0*Connell, to the let- ter of Mr. Walter Savage Lj dor, he thus addresses that gentleman : — * There is much matter for serious thought and * statesman-like counsel in your plan of emigration, * and in your notion of the distribution of the crown * lands. But, it has been deemed more flippant to cut * short all wiser schemes, in order to fling upon us a * Poor- Law ; to sink our property in workhouses, and ' to make us rich by causing us to support with money * masses of our poor at the expense of an establish- * ment, the cost of which would produce most valu- * able results if employed in the manner you sug- * gest — in canals, in railroads, and in other useful * works. You are, however, mistaken in supposing * that the rent of land is higher in Ireland than in ' England. It is a mistake in which so many concur * with you as to be quite blameless. * I do confess you have made me melancholy. * There are in some of your su;;gestions materials of * incalculable utility to Ireland. But how are they ' to be worked out? M'^hat chance is there of ob- * taining a patient and thorough investigation of the * discordant elements which belong to our political * economy ? Our absentee Landlords — our hostile * resident Pi*oprietors — our impoverished Agricultur- ' ists — our extinguished or expiring Manufactures 28 * — how is a remedy to be found for these, and one * tliousand other evils with which the social state in * Ireland is filled ? I will tell you. By a domestic * Legislature, and by a domestic Legislature * alone.* Mr. O'Connell's solution for the adoption of what is good in legislation, is the establishment of a do- mestic legislature, and of a domestic legislature alone. He seems to have utterly forgotten, that an united le- gislature is just as competent to frame improvement for Ireland as a domestic legislature, and that all which is wanted is to convince the united legislature of the necessity of so acting. Personally I have extremely to regret, that when more than ten years ago I put forward a plan of emigration, which he now appears to approve, and when I suggested that it would be wise to accompany it with the formation of canals, roads, and other public works, he never took the slightest notice of the subject. Now, after that lapse of time he has discovered, that in those suggestions there are materials of incalculable utility to Ireland ; but he inquires how they are to be worked out, and asks * What chances there are of obtaining a patient * and thorough investigation of the discordant elements * which belong to the political economy of Ireland V Allow me to remark, that those discordant elements are exclusively to be found in his own imagination, they do not exist in reality. In 1831 the select class of the Mechanics' Institution laid down the principles upon which emigration ought to be carried 29 into effect, in the clearest terms in which opinion could be conveyed. A copy of part of those Resolu- tions I herewith introduce. That commodities in excess, as compared v. Ith the demand for them, are inevitably depreciated in value, if they are brought into the market for sale : and that labour^ when brought into the market, so far partakes of the nature of commodities, that it is in- evitably depreciated in value whenever it is in excess as com- pared with the demand. That there is an excess of the supply of labour, as compared with the demand for it, amongst many of the operative and labouring classes in the United Kingdom ; and that pauperism, degradation, and suflFering are the consequences of that state of things. That, to remedy such evils, 'either more labour must be de- manded, or less labour supplied ; and that, unless one or other of these conditions can be satisfied, the evil is without remedy. That there do not appear to be any natural and unforced means of profitably increasing the demand for labour in the United Kingdom to such an extent as to absorb the existing redundancy of the supply of labour, and thereby afford an eflfectual remedy for (he evil by the first of the alternatives proposed, viz. an increase of demand for labour. That, for the purpose of remedying the evil by the second of those alternatives, viz. the diminution of the supply of labour. Emigration, upon an extended scale, to our colonial possessions, if regulated and assisted^ and conducted upon those sound princi- ples already acted upon^ presents an immediate, certain, humane, and specific remedy for the evil in question, so far as those who are specially suflFering under it are concerned : with the certainty that the removal of the redundant labourers could occasion no injury to the labouring classes remaining at home, and the pro- bability that the latter might be materially benefited by the measure. That the humanity of the proposed measure is unquestion- able, because the voluntary location of industrious and able-bodied labourers on a fertile soil, and in a healthy climate, in any of the 30 colonies, is infinitely preferable to the involuntary idlenees, poverty, and degradation of the pauperized labourers of the United Kingdom ; and presents, in a striking point of view, the contrast between competence, independence, and happiness on the one hand, and destitution, dependence, and misery on the other. And further, that, although local aittachments may induce some to pre- fer hopeless wretchedness, for themselves and their posterity, on the spot where they happen to exist, to the enjoyment of comfort and security in another country, this preference affords no reason for withholding from others the opportunity of availing themselves of the more beneficial alternative. That, looking at the proposed remedy simply as a measure ef national policy^ it would be objectional, unless it could be satis- factorily proved, that the total expense of removing the redundant labourers by Eniigration would be leas than the expense which must inevitably be incurred for maintaining them at home at the cheapest possible rate. That, were not this the case, the funds for the employment of labour, upon whii'h the prosperity of the labouring classes so much depends, would be diminished by the application of the proposed remedy. In reference, therefore, to national wealth, if the expense of emigration be less than the expense of home- maintenance, there would be a decided economy, instead of an apparent expense, in the application of national capital to the pur- poses of regulated and assisted emigration. That permanent redundancy of labouring population, pro- ducing such evils, could not exist in any country where there was an unlimited supply of ?moccMpied /erf iVe/awrf, within the reach of parties beginning to suffer from such redundancy. Consequently, of that unlimited supply of fertile land is to be found in the colo- nies, there need be no redundancy for the future in the United Kingdom, if the difficulty of the intervention of the sea can (be overcome. That, in the first instance, a national effort ought to be made to remove the present accumu/a/zon, which is too large to be absorbed in the colonies as mere labour (which it would have been 31 had the emigrants been gradually poured in), but rcquireB to be disposed of in actual location and settlement. In the second in- stance, if means be adopted by which, for the future, the colonie b may themselves pay (for the purpose of supplying themselves with labour) the expense of the passage of emigrants from the mother- country, the only impediment to that natural and spontaneous spread of labour which would take place of itself but for the inter- vention of the sea, will be effectually and permanently removed. That there are two different sorts of prejudicial conse- quences attributed to emigration by its opponents, which are utterly incompatible the one with the other : — one party contend- ing that the vacuum (as it is called) will be filled up, and all the evils of pauperism re-introduced ; while the other maintains that there will be no labour forthcoming, and that the rise of wages will extinguish profits. That, in reply to the first class of objectors, it may be stated that, if the debt incurred by the removal of paupers be paid off before fresh pauperism can, by the laws of nature, be repro- duced as the direct, or indirect consequence of emigration, the pos- sibility of its ultimate reproduction is no argument against the measure, because that reproduction will neither diminish the sum of actual happiness which will be created by the measure in the first instance, nor the actual saving effected by it. And, again, that, i£ reproduced at all, pauperism will not be reproduced in masses, but slowly and progresiively ; when it may be drained off without the possibility of accumulation, instead of its remaining, as it has done, a dead weight and expense to the country. That it may be urged, in answer to the second class of objectors, that machinery will always supply the want of any portion of emigrated labour, should such an inconvenience (which is very improbable) ever occur ; and that, in point of fact, at this moment, owing to the redundancy and consequent cheapness of labour, machinery is absolutely kept back, both in manufiactures and agriculture. That, for the preceding reasons, Emigration, upon the principles laid down in the reports and evidence of the Emigra- 32 tion Committees, and in the Right Hon. R. Wilmot Ilorton's work, entitled 'Causes and Remedies of Pauperism,* as a na- tional measure of relief for able-bodied pauperism, deserves the support of Parliament and the country. Mr. McCulloch, in a publication entitled * A Discourse on the Rise, Progress, Peculiar Objects, and Importance, of Political Economy,' published in 1824, has the following passage ; — * A few words only will be required to satisfy the * most sceptical, that the well-being and happiness * of society must ever necessarily depend on the de- « gree in which the principle of increase is subjected * to prudential control and regulation. Those who are * least conversant with the principles of the science * are aware that the market-rate of wajres is exclu- * sively dependent on the proportion which the capital * of the country, or the means of employing labour, * bears to the number of labourers. There is plainly, * therefore, only one way of really improving the * condition of the great majority of the commu- * nity, or of the labouring class, and that is, hy * increasing the ratio of capital to population. If * this be done, the rate of wages will be proportionally * augmented, and the labourers will rise in the scale * of society ; whereas, if the ratio of capital to popula- * tion be diminished, wages will be proportionally re- * duced, and the condition of the labourers changed * for the worse. Unfortunately, the labourers have * very little power over the increase or diminution of * the national capital, but they are all-powerful in 33 * resj)ect to the increase or diminution of the supply * of labour. And if they had only good sense and * intelligence sufficient to avail themselves of this * powder, they might, by understocking the market < with labour, render the wages high, notwithstanding * the demand for their services should happen to be * diminished ; while, if they do not avail themselves * of this power, but allow the principle of population * to exert its natural tendency to overstock the market * with labour, wages will be low, to whatever extent * the demand for labour may be increased. It ap- * pears, therefore, that the lower classes are in a very * great degree the arbiters of their own fortune. * What others can do for them is really, to use Mr. * Malthus's words, but as the dust of the balance * compared with what they can do for themselves. * Nor is there any very great reason to think that * their condition will ever be materially improved, * until they are made acquainted with the circum- * stances which govern the rate of wages, and are im- * pressed with an intimate conviction of the im- * portant and unquestionable truth, that they are * themselves the masters of the only means by which * their command of the necessaries and comforts of ' life can be materially extended.' The question is, how is this grand problem of increasing the ratio of capital to population sug- gested by Mr. McCulloch to be effected ? Mr. Ricardo argues the case precisely in the same manner as Mr. McCulloch in the following passage c 31 in the Article Taxation in the Snpplement to the En- cyclopedia Britannica. * It ': impossible suddenly to diminish the number ' of the labourers when wages fall. Such a diminu- ' tion cannot, as we have already stated, be effected ' otherwise than by the operation of increased mor- ' tality, or by a decrease in the number of births. ' But unless the full were very sudden and extensive, ' it would require a considerable number of years to * render the effects of increased mortality very appa- * rent; and it is so difficult to change the habits of a * people, that, though the demand for lal)our were ' to decline, it would, notwithstanding, continue for a * while to flow into the market with nearly the same * rapidity as before. Nor would the ratio of the in- ' crease of population be sufficiently diminished, until ' the misery occasioned by the restricted demand on ' the one hand, and the undiminished supply on the ' other, had been very generally and widely felt.' I quoted this passage in my Lectures in 1831, and stated my opinion, as opposed to those entertained by Mr. Ricardo and Mr. McCulloch, in the following words : — • I take the liberty of affirming, that it is possible * to effect speedily that adjustment of the supply of * labour to a diminished demand, which the author of * this article argues to be impossible, except by the * laboui.tig classes passing through many years of * privati(»a and misery. I contend that that severe * ordeal may be avoided, by enabling those supera- 35 * huiidant labourers (who may prefer to parochial * relief the possession of a fee-simple property in * another part of the empire) to remove to a colony, * where the circumstances which prevented their ob- taining adequate renmneration in the mother-country ' do not exist, and where they and their posterity may * enjoy a state of permanent comfort and independ- * ence. I cannot conceive the frame of mind in ' which that man must be, who calls it cruelty and * insult to offer the means of happiness and independ- * ence to one who is suffering misery and degrada- * tion, merely because he must cross the sea to obtain * the benefit. What is the case in countries where * there is access to unoccupied fertile land, witliout * the necessity of crossing the sea ? In the United * States, the evils of a redundant population are * avoided by a continual natural emigration towards * the fertile and unpeopled territories of the Union. ' Why, then, should it not be the policy of an Euro- * pean nation, possessing territories equally fertile and * in want of population, to overcome, by its capital * and credit, the difficulty opposed by the intervention * of the sea, and to give to those who may desire them * facilities of exchanging a state of wretchedness and * degradation for one of independence and prosperity ?' One of the Resolutions assented to by the Me- chanics' Institution, points out that the same object which Mr. McCulloch and Mr. Ricardo contem- plated, by increasing the ratio of capital to popula- c2 36 tion, may be effected by reducing the ratio of popu- lation to capital. The Resolution staTids thus :— * That to remedy such evils, either more labour * mnst be demanded, or less labour supplied, and that, * unless one or r^'ier of these conditions can be satis- * iied, the evil is without remedy.' Why not have recourse, then, to the second and practical alter- native ? But as the w^^.ole question is one of practice and not of theory, one of the principal objects of the pre- sent publication is to give to the public the examination of Mr. Rubidge, who has been a settler in Canada for the space of nearly twenty years. I have elicited the information from Mr. Rubidge, by proposing to him that course of ordinary questions which I con- ceive would be put to him in a Committee of the House of Commons, by a Member anxious to examine him in chief; that examination will be found to com- prehend the whole subject. 37 Stateiient by Lieutenant Rubidge, R.N., in answer to Questions proposed by the Right Honourable Sir Robert Wilniot Horton, Bart. 1. You originally went out Vj the Canadas as a settler? — Yes; I went out in the year 1819, with a wife and three children, to settle in Upper Canada. I took my grant of land as an officer in the township of Otonabee, a new township, just laid out in the forest. 2. Have you been in England since that period ? — I came to England last November, after an absence of eighteen years, or rather more. 3. Have you found the experiment of colonization a successful one ? — Very much so, as far as relates to my own case ; for I went out there with very small means, and 1 have contrived now to establish myself in a very comfortable way. 4. Has the locality of your settlement given you opportunities of knowing any minute puiticulars respecting what have been called the Government Emigrations of the yeara 1823 and 1825? — Yes ; it has given me greet opportunities of watching the progress of emigration. In short, I was partly concerned in the emigra- tion of 1825. The emigration of 1823 is far removed from where I reside; therefore I cannot speak so positively about it. I can merely go from hearsay, with respect to 1823 ; but the settlement of 1825 I am well acquainted with, and competent to speak to. In point of fact, the township in which I reside was given up by Mr. Robinson altogether to me to locate, and whenever any stranger came there Mr. Robinson allowed me to locate them there without any kind of application to the government at all. 5. In March, 1831, prior to my leaving England for Ceylon, I had the satisfaction of receiving the following letter from Mr. Richards, who, as you are aware, had been sent out as a commis- sioner to inquire into the circumstances of tie emigrants who went out in 1823 and 1825, and also to be able to form some judgment upon the practicability of colonization generally :— 38 " LondoTiy 1st Marchy 1831. ** My dkar Sir, — I have this morning received your favour of yesterday, and in reply to your question, Whether the Irish emi- grants located under the superintendence of Mr. Peter Robinson in 1825 liad to complain of increased misery, privation and dis- comfort, and what reply I should suppose they would make to such a question, if put to them, I have no hesitation in stating dis- tinctly that they would repel it with indignation, as ridiculous and unfounded, and show, with exultation, the small farms they have made, and which enable them to live in independence. I under- stood that the emigrants of 1823 were equally well off, but I did not visit their settlement. I was two or three days at Peterboroij ' , during which time, perhaps, thirty or forty settlers, and some with their families, came in to see Mr. Robinson ; and the man- ner in which they met him was quite affecting ; it was more to bless him as a benefactor than to receive him as a visitor. " I remain, my dear Sir, " Very faithfully yours, (Signed) "John Richards." I now beg to ask you whether, in 1838, you are enabled to confirm the statement made by Mr. Richards in 1831 ? — Most unquestionably, I can confirm it. They are not only living in independence, as stated by Mr. ''ichards, but many of them are now keeping their hordes ; and I might go on further to state that many of these people have their sons grown up, and they have been able to buy farms, and are settled all about the country. They are not only independent themselves, but their children are independent also, and some of them even more so than their parents. 6. Have you any means of giving a definite answer to the in- quiry as to the increase in the numbers of the settlers of 182.5, since their location in Canada ? — I cannot answer that question definitively ; but I should not be surprised to find that their num- bers are doubled. Of coukse, however, that information cun be obtained from other sources. ^ 39 n ^ 7. I presume that numbers of marriages have taken place among the younger part of those settlers since their arrival there ? — Yes. 8. I mean boys and girls, who have grown into men and women ? — Yes ; 1 should state, that, with very few exceptions, both boys and girls have married. 9. You are probably aware that there are persons in this coun- try who have at' ached particular value to the principle of sending out young married couples ? — Yes ; I have heard of it. 10. Do you, or do you not, consider that the marriages that have taken place among the young settlers of 1825 have produced just the same effect as if they had been sent out as young couples ? — I consider that they have produced a much better effect, and for this reason, that these young people, when they have married out there, have had sufficient experience to go on to land, and to work it with advantage. I consider that the young people brought up in the country are much better than persons having been sent out as young couples ; because they have acquired sufficient know- ledge to go on to land with great advantage to themselves. Young couples, by being industrious, might provide for themselves in this country. Where parents go out and take a family with them, it is an equal relief, I consider, to the mother country ; and if grown- up, those children can always get employment as labourers or farm-servants. I think giving encouragement to young couples is giving support to those classes of persons who are least in want of it, and least entitled to it. 11. Do you, as a practical colonist, consider that the sending out children with their fathers and mothers is a better principle of colonization than that of sending out young couples. — I mean with reference to the influence the head of the family would have ? — Yes, most unquestionably. 12. The colonizations of 1823 and 1825, taken together, give a result of 22/. per head, men, women, and children. Are you not of opinion that, with all the advantages which a practical experi- ence has yx)inted out, a colonization upon the largest scale, pre- cisely similar in principle to the colonization of 1825, might be 40 i'i'l carried on at a much less rate of expense ?— Yes, I am certain it may. 13. Before I put any further question to you I would wish to record, as shortly as I can, my views as to the distinction between colonization and emigration — a distinction not necessarily grow- ing out of the import of the terms, but as marking two modes of progress. The Emigration Committee of 1827 pointed out the distinction in the clearest manner, and I have repeated the argu- ment in various publications. Emigration, I consider, as the term to be aj / ' .' i the case of labouring emigrants going out to a colony with a racter of the mass of persons composing that emigration. *' Whatever conflicting opinions may have heretofore ex- isted on the question, whether persons translated fro;.'i the British islands into the forests of Canada, would succeed n? settlers or not, there cannot now be any doubt on tli' u'. ject. The Irish settlers placed in the midst of the woods have already acquired sufficient of the habits of the country to enable them to meet all their wants by their own labour, and, having successfully combated the difficulties incident to a first settlement, have before them a fair prospect of comfort and independence. " Much of this is owing to the indefatigable exertions and unwearied diligence of their superintendent, the Honourable Peter Robinson — his judicious location of the emigrants in an interesting part of this fertile district, his attention to their wants, his perseverance in overcoming obstacles, and his humanity to them generally, have raised his character high in the estimation of those who have now the honour of addressing your lordship, and have endeared his name as a friend and protector with all the emigrants. " We feel much pleaaure also in expressing our sense of the judicious and liberal aid afforded by the Provincial Exe- cutive in the establishment of public schools, and in the erection of a large and valuable mill in the very midst of the new settlement. By this the greatest, indeed almost only difficulty which the settlers themselves could not have sur- mounted, is overcome ; and they cannot do otherwise than entertain a grateful feeling for the government which has so generously aided them. ^ " In conclusion, we would beg leave to represent to your lordship, that there are still extensive tracts of fertile land unoccupied in the vicinity of the late settlement ; and that, if the success of the present experiment should induce his mmmm 50 Majesty's Goverrment to continue the system, the arrival of other bettlers from tlie British islands under their pro- tection 'yill be hailed by us with joy, as a further proof of their beneficent designs fov the well-being of Uppe. Canada. " We have, &c.*' (Signed by sixty individuals. ) This letter was written in 1827 ; Have you any reason to believe that the sentiments of those parties would be now changed if an appeal were made to them ? — Most assuredly not ; I do not hesitate to pledge myself to that fact. In short, I could say positively, that wc date the great prosperity of our district over all others, almost, to the introduction of emigrants in 1°25. It was till that time in a lanj^aishing state, and from that time it has got on in a most surprising way. 96. I would call your attention to pages 30 and 31 of the Emi- gr.'ition Report of 1827, in which the Committee sum up the suc- cess of the emigrations of 1823 and 1825, as bearing upon the proba- bility of repayment. I shall not enter into the questicii of tht emigration of 1823, because you are not practically acquainted with it. With respect to the emigration of 1825, with which you are so minutely acquainted, you will find that the Committee record that it consisted of 2024 persons, among whom there were 415 heads of families, able-bodied and capable of labour. They then go into the Irish questions, with which I am nut going to trouble you ; and then they proceed to record, that these 2024 persons were removed in the year 1825 to Canada, and that the expense of their removal amounted to 43,145/., -aclud'ng their location nnd sustenance up to the period at which their first crops enabled them to provide for themselves. Their removal, therefore, taken at per head, amounted to 211. 6s 4d., being a decrease of J 5^. 2d. over the expense of the first emigration of 1823> which was effected at tbe expense of 22/. 1^. 6c?. per head. Mr. Peter Robinson, the superintendent, was called o.\ V>y the Committee to give a coiijectural estimate of the value of the produce of their 51 first year's labour, and he gave it as amounting to 11,272/. 85., being a calculation made upon the then current price of articles in the colony. Mr. Robinson did not mean to say that these colonists had a produce to dispose of to the amount of 11,272/. 8s., but that the production which they had created amounted to that sum. The Committee then proceeded to reason in the following manner : — " The 415 heads of families were located upon 41,500 acres. At the time that the emigrants were placed upon this land, these 41,500 acres were utterly unproductive, / jlding no annual value." The Committee then enter into a very elaborate calculation, at the end of which they sum up the case in these words : — " A pauper in the south of Ireland, for whose labour no demand existed, and consequently whose presence in Ireland added nothing to the general wealth of the country, but, on the contrary, whose subsistence was a deduction from that wealth, was removed to a district in Upper Canada. He received from the Government, for himself, his wife, and three children, the sum of 100/. sterling, in kind, and not in money. This 100/. sterling has enabled him to cultivate a proportion of 100 acres of land, and at the end of seven years he will be in the possession of a surplus income of 15/. per annum." Such was the reasoning of the Committee ; and the following queries, which weie put to Mr. Peter Robinson, the superintendent, and his answers, will show that it was perfectly just to take the expense at 20/. per head : — " What has been the actual average expense per head of the emigrations of 1823 and 1825? — The total expense of the emigra- tion of 1823 v^as 22/. Is. 6rf. per head; the total expense of the emigration of 1825 was 21/. 5*. 4c/. " Oiight not a deduction to be made from the expense of this latter emigration, m consequence of certain stores having been delivered to the commissariat, which will be an item of account in diminution of the general expense ? — I think not less than 2000/. The settlers were provisioned for sixty days ; and as they were d2 53 \s 1' * ! landed at from thirty to forty days, nearly half the provisions must have been landed at Quebec, for which, I believe, there has been as yet no credit given. " That would reduce the expense to about 20/. per head? — It would." It was then reasoned, that as the settler would not be called on to pay any return whatever for the money lent to him till after seven years, he would have a surplus income of 15/. to meet a debt of 41. 1 do not in the slightest degree expect you to offer me an extempore opinion as to the accuracy of this statement, but you may study it at your leisure, and convey that opinion to me. But I would here observe, that the Committee in this calculation only argued upon the hypothesis, that the settlers had brought into cultivation 8300 acres ; and consequently, under that hypo- thesis, at the end of these seven years, 33,200 would still have remained uncultivated. I need not observe that thirteen years, instead of seven, have elapsed since these settlers were thus placed on their land. I trust, therefore, that it will be in your power, after due consideration, to supply me at least with an approximat- ing estimate of the value of the property of these colonists of 1825 at the present period ? — I should wish to have time to make this alculation. Lieutenant Rubidge subsequently gave in the following an- swer : — "The farms of the emigrants sent out in 1825 by the Govern- ment have greatly increased in value, particularly those near the town of Peterborough. I believe, taking them on an average, that every fiirm of one hundred acres is now worth 1 bOl. Many of these settlers, as well as their sons, have bought crown and clergy reserves from the Government. I have sold as much as four or five hundred acres of land to one family ; and I conscientiously be- lieve thai the freehold property owned by these colonists collectively would not fall short of 80,000/. ; in fact, many of them possess comiderahle property in the town of Peterborough." 27. I am now going to enter on a subject, which is not necessa- rily mixed up with the particular purport of the inquiries which I 5-^ am making of you, but it is convenient to introduce it here in refer- ence to any general reader who may read these queries and an- swers. With respect to the condition of these 2024 persons removed in 1825, reams of paper might be filled with a description of the horrible position in which parties in that situation were placed — utterly without employment, utterly destitute of property, dispos- sessed of their farms, and therefore entirely subsisting either upon ' charity or spoliation. Here are 2024 persons who, in round num- bers, at the expense of 20/. each person (40,480/.), have been removed to a state of high prosperity in a British colony. The country from which they are taken has not in the slightest degree suffered by the abstraction of their labour. Admitting, that if they had remained in their own country there would have been no demand for their labour (an admission which must be made if Irish evidence is to be believed), let us suppose that these people had remained in Ireland, and that they had been kept in existence by charity at the rate- of 2d. per head per diem, the simplest arith- metical calculation shows that the annual expense of maintaining these people in Ireland would have been 6 156/. 6^. 8rf. ; whereas, a perpetual annuity, at 20/. p lead, Consols being at 90, taking them in round numbers, to pay the interest of a debt of 40,480/., would be 1349/. 6s. 8d. per annum. Now, up to the present hour notwithstanding an infinite variety of publicutions, notwithstanding the lectures which I gave publicly at the Mechanics' Institution, I have never been able to gain an assent to the i)roposition that the payment of 61.56/. 6*. Sd., supposing Irelanti to have main- tained by charity these wretched persons at the lowest rate of existence, would have been a far greater tax than to ^ ly 1436/. for a perpetual annuity for the sum advanced, .tut to have paid the interest of the sum advanced would have been to have paid a debt to Government which must have been advanced from the taxation of Ireland ; but to keen these people in charity would have been a tax upon the individuals from whom that charity proceeded, and those who were not disposed to be cha- ritable would be exempt from the tax. But that distinction, which I admit to be a substantive one, does not affect the point of its being as genuine a tax upon Ireland, that is to say, upon some Mi 54 persons in Ireland, though unequally levied, as if the amount of that charity had been paid into the Exchequer. That charity must have proceeded from the current annual revenue of Ireland, and therefore it would be precisely as severe a tax as if it had been paid to Government. Here, then, you have, on the one hand, 2024 persons, beggared paupers, trailing on a miserable existence, under an annual tax upon Ireland of 6156^ 6^. Qd., as compared with 2024 persons enjoying independence and prosperity in a British co- lony ; and (a point not to be forgotten) instead of living upon the cha- rity of their own country, increasing its prosperity by their exer- tions and industry, and not only benefiting their own country, but benefiting the mother-country ])y the demand for the manu- factures of that mother-country, which a state of prosperity in- duces. This proposition has been placed by me, as I have already said, again and again, before the public ; but except from scientific persons, with whom I have placed myself in close communication, I bave never been able to obtain either from government, from parliament, from the reviews, or from the public in general, any- thing like a satisfactory assent to a proposition which appears to me incapable of being denied. I have already stated that, as far as the superabundant population of a country can be relieved by emigration, in the sense in which I have employed the term, I am for having that emigration carried into effect ; but if the ques- tion be of a greater magnitudo, sue' ^s that of clearing off the redundant population of Ireland, I say, in defiance of the oppo- sition which I know I shall receive, that colonisation on an ex- tended scale is your only expedient, and that that expedient can- not and will not fail you if you choose to resort to it. I have shown that even without repayment the measure is one of eco- nomy as affecting general revenue instead of expenditure ; I have shown that had the principle of repayment been carried into effect, there was every probability that it would have proved suc- cessful. I am ready to prove this before any committee that government might appoint to investigate the question ; but it is so difficult for a man standing alone to find a fair tribunal to in- vestigate his opinions, that I cannot expect, unless I meet with 55 more co-operation than I have yet done, that any such opportunity will be afforded me. Do you see any fallacy in that reasoning ? — Not any whatever. 28. To sum up this particular part of the subject, 40,480/. Con- sols, being at 90, would require an annuity of 1436/. to pay the interest of such a loan. The maintenance of these paupers in Ireland would be a tax upon the current revenue in Ireland, at the rate of lOd. a day for a family of five persons, of 61 56/. 6*. 8d. So much for the actual comparison ; but when you take into consideration the increase of the body of population which, con- sidering the recklessness with which marriage is carried on in Ireland, would have added very materially to the number of 2024, say to the extent of increasing the numbers to 3000, the expense of that curre*** charity would of course be so far increased and misery so far multiplied ; whereas, by the increase taking place in Canaf^a, wealth is proportion ably increased by the access of that population, and prosperity so far augmented. Taking the calculation on a more general scale, and putting out of sight the augmentation of numbers, then Ireland, to have maintained these people in th^'s miserable manner, would require a perpetual annuity of 6156/. 6^. 8rf,, whereas, the perpetual annuity for the payment of their location in Canada, amounts only to 1436/. ; but let us suppose that, according to your calculation, these people were located for 60/. per family of five, that would amount to a perpetual annuity of 881/. 10s.? — Yes. 29. You have stated that you have been a resident in Upper Canada for nineteen years, and that you went out in 1819 '."ith your family, then consisting of a wife and three children. Did you purchase land partially cleared, or did you go on to wild land removed from any settlement ? — I went nineteen miles back from Lake Ontario, in the midst of the woods ; the township of Otona- bee, where I reside, was surveyed after my arrival in the province, and I took my grant of 800 acres of land, as a lieutenant in the navy, in that township. 30. What were your prospects of success as a settler at that time?— At that time I thought them good, as there was a great H 36 run to the tow nship when I settled, and as many as 100 persons took up their grants there. 31. From the time you became a settler up to 1825, did the part of the country where you live, that is, in the township of Otonabee, prosper, or otherwise ? — The emigration to the country north of the Rice Lake, prior to the time you name, was by voluntary set- tlers, and officers of the army and navy, unaided by any govern- ment encouragement ; none had the means to build mills, bridges, or make roads, ana from having no market town nearer than Cobourg on Lake Ontario, nineteen miles off, and having a lake three miles ,»'ide to cross in order to get there, the settlers became disheartened, and many left in despair of seeing a change ; the number of heads of families were in 1825 reduced from about seventy, the number that were originally settled there, to thirty- 6ve. 32. In your opinion, what would have been the consequence had things remained in this state ? — I am convinced that nearly every settler would have abandoned the country ; for, although we had good farms, and built barns, and other useful offices, and had greatly improved our estates, still we were shut up for want of mills, roads, bridges, or steam-boats, and often with our bams full of wheat could not get a pound of flour to eat, and this continued till the emigration of 1825. 33. In what way did the emigration of 1825, under the super- intendence of the Honourable P. Robinson, aifect your township, as well as all others on the north side of the Rice Lake ? — We all felt highly indebted to the English government, who, by planting these colonists amongst us, encouiuged us to cast aside our de- spondency, and ensured to us brighter prospects ; upwards of 2000 souls were added to our population, an excellent mill was built at the expense of the government, since bought by a private indivi- dual ; leading roads were cut out in all directions, and a steam- boat in operation. Where at that time one old house stood, the town of Peterborough grew up as if by magic, and it now con- tains two churches, two meeting-houses, upwards of 400 houses, and 2000 inhabitants. Speculators flocked to the neighbouring 57 townships in all directions — mills were built — stores opened — and life, bustle, and civilisation, went on with spirit ; had it not been for this fortuitous accession of population, we must have dragged on a lethargic existence with doubtful prospects of improvement. 34.. Have you any idea of the population in all the townships north of the Rice J^ake and River Trent, in the Newcastle Dis- trict, in the year 1825, prior to the government emigration? — Yes, about 500 souls. 35. Do you know what their numbers are now ? — I can give them within a few of the truth, as I have with me a census, of the year 1834, of the inhabitants in the townships, as follows, viz. : — Ops, 796: Mariposa, 346; Eldon, 560; Emily, 1356; Otona- bee, 1327; Monaghan, 1116; Asphodel, 397; Douro, 976; Dummer, 635 ; Ennismore, 280 ; Smith, 976. Total, 8523. No return has been made of the inhabitants of the townships of Fenelon, Verulam, Harvey, Methuen, Belmont, ct Burleigh, but I can state them to have been at that time ^bout 2000 ; in the whole, at this moment, I have no hesitation in stating, that the population amount to at least 15,000 or 16,000, which gives an increase of 14,500 since the emigration sent out al the expense of government in 1825. 36. What do you suppose was the amount of British manu- factured goods disposed of in this portion of the province in 1825, prior to the emigration ? — It must have been very small, for the settlers made all their own wearing apparel from flax grown on their farms, and from the wool of their sheep ; and every person with incomes, except the Honourable Mr. Stewart, of Douro, and myself, had left this part of the country, — consequently, I should s&y the whole amount would not exceed 1000/. 37. Can you state, with reasonable accuracy, the amount of British manufactured goods now consumed in the same portion of the country ? — I will endeavour to do so. In the town of Peter- borough there are now twenty-four stores or shops ; at Keene, in Otonabee, there are three ; and scattered about the country there are at least ten more ; there are fifteen grist mills and forty saw- 58 mills, besides distilleries, tanneries, and all other businesses carried on, and all in some way consuming British goods ; so that allowii.w only three pounds a-head for the total population of 15,000, it will amount to 45,000/. The growth of flax has ceased, and the farmers use their wool for making blankets, stockings, &c. 38. Will you inform me, if, during the time you resided in Canada, you have held any public situations ? — In 1820 I was placed on the commission of the peace; in 1825 I assisted Mr. Robinson, gratuitously, in settling the emigrants sent out by the Right Honourable Sir Wilmot Horton — the township of Otona- bee, where I resided, was given up entirely to me to locate. In the year 1831 Sir John Colbome was pleased to appoint me to conduct an emigration on a very extensive scale, and I continued to act in the capacity of an emigrant agent for nearly two years. I also hold the situation of a commissioner to administer the oath of allegiance ; a commissioner of the Court of Requests ; and a trustee for the lands belonging to the Rice Lake Indians: in a word, everything in the country has grown about me, which enables me to speak confidently on most local matters. 39. What is the present condition of the emigrants sent out in 1825 ? — ^They are generally perfectly independent, having fine farms well stocked with cattle, sheep, pigs, &c. ; and many of them keep their horses, with conveyances both for summer and winter. Their families are all settled about them on farms pur- chased by their own industry. There is no one instance of any member of one of these families asking charity from any one ; if any of them were addicted to crimes at home, in Ireland, they are now free from them, and placed above necessity, and are as moral, peaceful, and loyal a body of people, as we have in the pro- vince. 40. How were the provisions obtained for the settlers taken out by Mr. Robinson in 1825? — They had all to be conveyed from Cobourg to Peterborough, a distance of thirty-two miles ; and a great portion of that supply came from different parts of the province, and from the United States. 59 41. In the event of government again undertaking the colo- nisation of any number of emigrants, would the same expenses have to be incurred, or might the supply be obtained from the townships settled by Mr. Robinson ? — Any quantity required can now be obtained to supply the demand for an emigration to any extent, as the surplus wheat sent from this section of the country in 183*7 amounted to upwards of 200,000 bushels, pork and beef in the same proportion. 42. You have stated that you conducted the settlement of emi- grants in 1831 ; what description of persons were they, or by whom "ent out? — They consisted of about 150 persons sent out by the Marquis of Bath, and placed under my superintendence by Sir John Colborne ; also of 1 00 commuted pensioners and their families, and 1700 emigrants who had come to the province at their own charge. 43. Had any preparation been made to receive so large a body of persons, or did they come out unexpectedly? — No preparation had been made, and some delay and expense took place in conse- quence, as I had, aftf r their arrival, to get a road cut, cleaned out, and bridged, to convey them to the township of Dummer, fifteen or twenty miles off; to erect temporary huts or shanties to shelter the people in Peterborough; to build shanties on their lots in the forest, and to procure supplies of provisions, teams, guides, &c. 44. Then it is your opinion that, by making preparations the year previous to any number of settlers being sent out, that great expense might be saved the Government, and muc> valuable time gained? — Of this I am quite sure, and I would beg leave, in answer to this question, to supply a copy of my communication on the subject to Sir John Colborne, in 1832 : — "In compliance with the request of his excellency Sir John Colborne, thai, 1 would furnish such information respecting emi- gration to Upper Canada, and more particularly of that in the year 1831, as my personal experience and practical knowledge enabled me to communicate, I have endeavoured to suggest some changes 60 that will certainly save much expense in future to the Government, and amelioiate the condition of the emigrant. " In the first place a more regular system ought to be adopted, and emigrants from the first should distinctly understand what they are to receive, be it much or little. In providing food for settlers in new townships, to establish them on their land, it should always be regular, for most of them arrive at a season when it is extremely difficult, and sometimes impossible for them to get work or provisions in newly-settled townships. Whenever an emigrant presents himself to an agent or superintendent, to be taken under his charge for rations and location, I would by all means have a printed bond or agreement, signed and sealed, before they receive provisions or anything else whatever; this will effectually prevent any unreasonable expectation on the part of the latter, and save the agent much trouble and vexation. When new townships are to be peopled 1 beg to point out the propriety of having a large log-house put up for a dej)6t in the most central or eligible situation ; and the winter previous to any intended settlement a stock of provisions, &c., to be lodged therein by contract ; the concession lines fresh blazed, posts put up at the corners of the lots, leading roads cut out for an ox-sleigh, and a remark made of each lot fit for location. If a few log-huts were put up in different spots in a township, to form temporary accom- modation for the poor settlers, to prevent their families and lug- gage from suffering by wet and dew, till they can get them con- veyed to their shanties, it would prevent much sickness. " Generally speaking, emigrants sent out to Canada have been too well fed. Pork and flour for persons accustomed to live mostly on potatoes are very injurious to their health ; and were it possible to get some hundred bushels of potatoes in store as soon as out of danger from frost, the settlers might be allowed to pur- chase to cover the expense of them. This would save them from great imposition, give them seed, if out in time to plant, and keep them in better health, if used for food. But a more saving plan, probably, would be, to have from thirty to forty acres of land 61 cleared off the year previous to settlement, in four or six different sections of the township, and nearest to the greatest quantity of luud or lots fit for location : these fields to be planted with pota- toes, and, on emigrants arriving, sold, or given by patches or gardens to each family. If they arrive sufficiently early in the season to plant, the women and yomiger incinl)er8 of the family might he usefully employed, whilst the men were going on with their chopping, or brilding their log dwellings. By this plan much expense would be saved in transport, always a very heavy item in an emigration account. " I consider that fifty acres of land are quite sufficient for a poor emigrant, and by giving no more he can be much cheaper and more easily settled ; and by their being nearer each other, they may render mutual assistance when they have heavy work to per- form. By all means the lots or portions of land should be pre- viously marked off by blazed lines, to prevent quarrels and trespasses on each other. Young medical men or surgeons of the army or navy might be induced to settle amongst ther , near the depot, by holding out an encouragement of receiving a grant of land, and a small addition to their half-pay or income. " The conduct of the emigrants located by me in 1831 was in general most exemplary ; and I never observed a stronger desire to take advantage, by their industry, of the kind encouragement afforded them by the Government : they invariably vied with each other in their exertions, and this will always be the case where provisions are not lavishly or improperly supplied, and the popu- lation well mixed, as it was in that year; for then, the sluggard, who would not be shamed by greater energy on the part of a countryman, is roused from his indolence by a national feeling of pride to keep pace with his English, Irish, or Scotch neighbour. " The arrangements in 1831, for feeding the emigrant, I do think, cannot be much improved upon, unless a small quantity of oatmeal were given in addition to the flour. They are as follows : every individual, except children under five years of age, have daily one pound of flour ; a man half a pound of pork, and a 62 woman a quarter of a pound, with a proportionate quantity of oat- meal : the children under nge luilf a pound of flour. " In new townsliipsi, removed from a settlement, oxen and sleighs might be purchased by Government, to assist the emigrants moving to their locations, and be sold when no longer wanted, as the great advantage of placing the settler on land at once ought never to be lost sight of; for it saves them from sickness and acquiring slothful habits ; besides, when persons of this class first arrive, they are bo enervated from change of food, climate, and habits, together with exposure in Durham-boats, that long walks in the forest to hunt for laud, or to put up shanties, bring on sick- ness, and often death, which may be averted, if placed at once or their locations. Tliey then have the society of their families, who help, console, and encourage them ; and I am sure the settlers put into Dummer, Douro, Ops, Emily, Otonabee, and Asphodel, by me, will be successful, although they had to contend with un- looked for difficulties and privations. Both in the emigration of 1825, under the Hon. Peter Robinson, and that of 1831, which I had the honour to conduct, no attention had previously been given to ascertain what lands were fit for settlement, no roads cut, or any preparation whatever made; the consequence was, and always will be, that great delay unavoidably took place ; the ex- penses, from hurry and imposition, were much increased, and the emigrants subjected to unnecessary fatigue in the forest, whilst their families lay too long huddled together in small camps or shanties in Peterborough, occasioning much sickness. " If arrangements eannot be made to send these people to their locations at once, with a dep6t formed in the township to supply them with food, then I strongly deprecate any forced encourage- ment to particular points, as they congregate in helpless and filthy masses, and their state becomes heart-rending ; sickness, despond- ency, and mortality follow. " It is rather difficult to devise a proper and equal plan for vic- tualling emigrants, because almost every family presents a different case ; but those with many and young children deserve the {;,reatest G3 indulgence and consideration. The agreement should oblige all female children twelve or fourteen years o( age, and the grown-np sons, to go out into service ; widows or infirm men to be allowed to keep their eldest or most able son at home. On giving a care- ful consideraticm to the suggestion of his Excellency that the sum of 14/. would probably be sufficient to maintain a family of five persons for a year, I fear to recommend anything less than 25/., particularly if they are to be settled in new townships. " The system of obliging the emigrant to clear oft" land in pro- portion to the quantity of provisions he is to get, is liable to be encountered by many difficulties; first, it rarely happens that the settler gets out under a month, and generally some sickness or lassitude prevails ; his first object is to get his shantie up, and his family out to it, to enable him to devote his undivided time to chopping his acre. This he begins to do like all who came to the country before him, by slashing down the trees in almost inextri- cable confusion, cutting all high alike, the timber down in this way ; he cannot get the brush to burn ; and he would starve if he had to depend on getting his acre cleared; whereas, were he in- structed and compelled liy an overseer to go about it in a workman- like manner, it would wonderfully help him to get his four acres cleared in the prescribed time of one year. " Men without their families should not be located atanychurge to the Government, or indeed at all — let them work and purchase. It is to be considered that where the head of a family is compelled by a stoppage of rations to suspend his endeavours to make a home for them, and to leave them in a forlorn state in search for work, that it breaks down his spirit, he fears the worst from the undertaking he has engaged in, and if he can he will remove his family altogether ; whereas, if his rations are continued on the proposed scale till the end of July of tlie following year, he will then, having used common industry, have a good crop of potatoes, at least, for their support, whilst he takes advantage to work out through the harvest to get a cow, and in the winter takes a job in threshing to supply them with bread. From this time, if he is a steady man, all will go well with him, and if he escape 64 sickness, he will soon become independent in his circumstances, and in time a consumer of British manufacture, thereby adding strength and respectability to the province, and to the wealth of the mother coui.t.y. " Very few settlers will arrive at the poirt from whence they are to be located before the months of June or July, and the bulk of them come after that time, so that no hope can be reasonably held out that many may be able to get a return crop from the earth that season ; certainly a few of the first settlers sent to Peterborough in the spring of 1831, from unusual quick passages, and being sent out immediately by me to their location, did raise some potatoes and turnips, and had the preparations as herein recommended been previously attended to, more might have been done. " Charles Rubidge." 45. Do you think that a more regular system can be adopted for facilitating colonisation ? — I am certain of it ; and in the first place, a set of regulations should be drawn up for the guidance of the superintendent, and for the information of all persons ad- mitted to the great privilege of being located as colonists in Upper Canada ; these regulations should state exactly what conditions both the Government and emigrants were to fulfil, the quantity of land each person of a certain age was to have assigned him, the quantity ol' provisions he should receive for himself and the dif- ferent members of his family, as well a§ any other indulgence to be. afforded him. On his part he must understand before he is accepted, that his children of a certain age must go out into service, and not be any burden to the Government j everything, in short, should be specified. No kind of claim by the sons of emigrants for land should ever be encouraged or permitted, for it is quite enough that the Government establish the heads of a family with their helpless little ones, without having to provide for hearty young men and women who can always get employment as ser- vants. By this airangement both colonisation and emigration can be carried on at the same time, and the mother-country and the province are benefited and relieved. 65 46. Then you would have a bond or agreement drawn out before any person was admitted to be taken under the charge of the su- perintendent as a settler ? — Certainly ; for this will prevent un- reasonable expectation on the part of the settler on the one hand, and will save the superintendent great trouble and vexation on the other. 47. What are the preparations that you particularly recommend to be made prior to any number of persons being sent out by the Government ? — First, to make selection of a township, or land in different townships, to receive any number of emigrants that the Government may name, and having prepared every separate lot of 50 or 100 acres, both by inspection and having the division lines run by a surveyor, a shanty erected on each lot, roads and bridges constructed, and depots of provisions laid in on the spot by con- tract during the previous winter. 48. Some persons have advised to wait for the arrival of the emigrants, as they might assist in doing much of this work them- selves ? — I differ from such persons ; it is work with which they are wholly unacquainted and cannot perform ; and, besides, it must be remembered that even if they could assist to do a little, that their families are to be supported and lodged in a town, where they acquire bad habits, and put the Government to double the expense from various casualties, sickness, &c. : as they have to make pro- vision for their own maintenance the following year, the sooner they are out on their land in the forest the better. 49. You probably are not aware that the Emigration Committee of 1827 was quite alive to the advantages of the system recom- mended by you, as will be shown by reference to query 3608 put to Mr. Peter Robinson, and the answer returned by him : — *' Do you not conceive, if emigration were to be carried on upon a system, that all that inspection and location would take place before, which would in some degree diminish the expense of each successive emigration ? — If it was known the year before the num- ber of emigrants that would be settled in any one district, a great expense might be saved by exploring the land and opening the roads beforehand; and getting the provisions and stores for- £ f 66 warded in the winter season would save half the expense of transport." No, I was not aware of it ; but I am certain it will be the opi- nion of every practical man. 50. Have you ever known instances in which the emigrants of 1825 sent money to Ireland for the purpose of inducing their friends to join them ? — I have known numerous instances of the kind; and there is a person in Peterborough, Mr. Hickson, who is generally employed as their agent to remit the money to Ireland. 51. Supposing, for the mere sake of hypothesis, that the removal of unemployed paupers in Ireland to our North American provinces were to be contemplated as a constitutional measure, do you, after nineteen years' experience, think that with discreet management there would be any difficulty in disposing of any number of such persons? — In my opinion, not the least. I have already described in the minutest detail the effect of colonization upon the interests of the district of Newcastle, and no reason pre- sents itself to my mind why the same process could not take place in other districts. If I am right in that reasoning, the limit- ations to the reception of colonists or emigrants must be, gene- rally, the quantity of land capable of receiving thcni and the demand for their labour. 52. What are the number of colonists which, allowing sufficient space of time, you think could be received in Upper Canada? — That is a very difficult question for me to answer ; but from my general knowledge of the country, I should imagine that about two hundred thousand heads of families could be located, if it were necessary to locate them, on property belonging to the Crown. 53. I have used the phrase '* allowing sufficient space of time ;" from your local knowledge, what length of time do you think would be sufficient ? The Emigration Committee, in their Report in 1821, have made a calculation upon the progressive principles, that the superfluity of one year would admit of an increased number of emigrants for the succeeding year, as long as you had the means of conveying them. — If colonisation were carried on at one and 67 the same time in both provinces, Lower and Upper Canada, I should think that two hundred thousand heads of families might be located in the space of six years : indeed I have no doubt of that. 54. But supposing that two hundred thousand heads of fami- lies — involving a population of two hundred thousand men, two hundred thousand women, and six hundred thousand children — were located, under which supposition the general face of the country would be colonised, do you consider that, if surveys were made, land could be found at the confines of such colonisation, not now considered to form part of the province of Upper Canada, which, upon examination, would be found perfectly fit to receive colonists of » similar charactei, to an almost indefinite extent? — Undoubtedly ; but I would remark, that it is in that direction of country that Canada would extend itself naturally, in the same manner as the United States have done. * 55. Under the influence of such forced or natural extension, would there be any difficulty on the part of the Indian tribes ? — I imagine not ; for the present tribes of Indians possess hunting- grounds far beyond the present settlements of the country, and they are never indisposed to dispose of land to Government. 56. I appeal to you, as an evidence practically cognisant of the experiment of 1825, whether I have exaggerated the benefits of the change in the case of these Irish colonists in my letter to Mr. O'Connell, of the date of Nov. 1830? You must have heard, again and again, from those colonists, the condition from which they were rescued by the government emigration of 1825, and therefore you must be competent to express a decided opinion upon the subject ? — I have repeatedly heard these people speak of their deplorable situation in Ireland, and of the difficulty at times of getting work, even at the very lowest wages. So far from your having exaggerated the present condition of those colonists, • It happens singularly that, though Mr. Rubidge had no recollection of the Report of the Emigration Committee in 1827, the calculation given by the Committee in detail tallies precisely with Mr. Rubidge's calculation, pro- vided five thousand heads of families are sent out the first year. E 2 -,..- •■-' fKm^muemi 68 it is my opinion, that if their present state of comparative wealth and comfort were more generally known, it would convert the whole nation to your way of thinking. 57. In June, 1828, more than ten years ago, the following ques- tions were put at my request to the heads of 180 families, who formed part of the emigrations of 1823 and 1825. I have added a summary of their answers ; and my question to you is, whether, after a lapse of ten years, they would return answers of a similar nature ? — 1. From whence did you emigrate to Upper Canada, and when? 2. What was your trade or occupation at home ? ai^ what were your circumstances when you embarked ? 3. Did you come out independently of any public assistance ? 4. If you were assisted by the public, what assistance was given you, and under whose superintendence were you ? 5. Had you any money when you came out, and how much ? 6. What are your present circumstances, as to house and other buildings, lands cleared and fenced, and farming stock ? 7. What family had you with you when you embarked? 8. Did any of your family die on the passage to Quebec ; and, if so, how many ? 9. What have you now ? 10. Have any died since you landed at Quebec; and, if so, how many ? 11. What state of health were they in during the last year ? 12. To what value had you produce or live stock to dispose of in the last year, above what you required for your family ? 13. On what kind of provisions does your family usually sub- sist ? 14. Are you pleased with your situation in Upper Canada? 15. Have your comfort and happiness been increased by coming to Upper Canada ? 16. Would you advise any of your friends in the country you left, whose situation there is the same as yours was, to come out to Upper Canada upon the same terms as you did ? 69 17. Suppose the government had furnished you and your family with a passage out, paid your expenses to your lands, given you 100 acres free of expense, provisions for a year, and the necessary farming utensils, and that this was done upon the condition that you should repay the sum advanced by annual instalments, be- ginning to pay at the end of years after you had been set- tled, and paying pounds in each year after, until the whole was paid up, would it have been in your power to make those payments ? 18. Knowing Upper Canada as you do now, would you think it advisable for a head of a family in Ireland, who is now poor, and without employment, to accept of such terms ? 19. Would it be better for him to receive from government, after landing in Quebec, 60/., or whatever may be necessary for taking himself and his family to his land, finding him provisions for a year, and farming utensils, upon the conditions of his repaying to the government the amount so advanced to him, either in money or the produce of his land, or to be merely landed at Quebec, and afterwards to depend upon his own exertions for establishing himself and family ? The answers given to several of these questions, of course, vary considerably in the cases of the different settlers. Nearly all of them state their circumstances in Ireland to nave been very bad; and the greater number had absolutely no money at Jie time of their embarkation. With respect to their present situ- ation, their satisfaction is in general ex])ressed very decidedly, and in several instances with a remarkable appearance of cordial and grateful feeling. Their answers to Questions 12 are very various, some having disposed, during the preceding ^car, of produce to the value of 3/., 4/., 5/ , 6/., and in one case 12/., while others had raised only what was required for the consumption of their fami- lies. Some of this latter class assign, as reasons for their not having disposed of any surplus produce, the unfavourable season of the preceding year, the distance of markets, or some peculiarity in their own circumstances. The answers to Question 13 are equally various, depending probably on the previous habits of the parties, the produce and stock which they had raised, &c. The 70 articles of food most frequently mentioned are pork (sometimes beeO, flour, Indian meal, potatoes, milk, and butter. One settler answers, " variety and plenty;" and another, " the best that Upper Canada can afford." Only one man complains that the produce of his farm was not enough to supply the wants (including clothing) of his family, which consisted of nine children ; but even he concurs with the other settlers, in stating that his " com- fort and happiness have been increased by coming to Upper Canada;" and to Question 16 (whether he would advise poor persons in Ireland to accept of such assistance as had been given to him, and to emigrate to Upper Canada?) his answer is — " 1 would indeed.*^ The anawers to thU question are without ex- ception in the affirmative^ and some of the settlers add, that they have already by letter given such advice to their friends. I wish particularly, however, to call the attention of thosje who may read this statement, to the three concluding questions, which relate to the repayment, on the part of the settlers, of the expense incurred by government in their location. In one instance those three questions are returned unanswered, and in two or three others they appear to have been misunderstood, and the answers are consequently unintelligible. The one complaining individual already mentioned, having filled up the first blank in Question 17 with the figure 5, answers that question in the negative ; and to Question 18 he replies, — *' I would ; but if he had a large family, I think he would not be able to pay much at the expiration of five years." Another would postpone the commencement of repay- ment until ten years after the location of the settler. Three others think that repayment would be practicable after ^ve years, if not prevented by casualties. All the other settlers express a positive opinion, that progressive repayment, in produce, could be effected ; the majority fixing five years as the period of commencement and the others leaving the period in blank. Their opinions vary with respect to the amount of instalment which should be fixed, with a view to the convenience of the settler. The answers to the two last questions are unanimous in favour of the acceptance by an emigrant of assistance from government, upon condition of progressive repayment in produce^ in preference io a reliance 71 Oil his own vnassisted exertions. In several instances an opinion is added, as to the comparative value of a loun in money, or an equivalent supply of necessary articles. I have thus stated at length the general results of the answers returned to these questions, with the view of conveying, as fairly as possible, the imprcs&ions which would be produced by an ex- amination in detail of these 180 documents. The variety of the answers, both in substance and language, sufficiently show that they are the free expression of the judgment and feeling of the l)arties. All of these settlers had been resident in the colony three years, and ma^.y of them five years.* — You have asked me the question, whether in my opinion those 180 Irish settlers would, after the lapse of ten years, which has now taken place, return answers of the same tenor as those they returned in 1828 .? To that question I answer, that in my judgment they unquestion- ably would return the same answers, or answers equally satis- factory. I should mention that I have had an opportunity of seeing those 180 answers in detail, by which I am more con- firmed in my opinion. The above Queries were put to Mr. Rubidge in the month of June last ; the following were proposed in the month of December, 1838 :— 58. You have naturally followed the history of events which have lately occurred in the Canadas ? — I have. 59. In your opinion has anything occurred which would make it inexpedient to carry emigration on a great scale from Ireland to Canada into effect? — In my opinion quite the contrary. I consider, from the state in which Lower Canada is, that the introduction of a British population will be highly advantageous; and the testimony in favour of the loyalty of the emigrants is so satisfactory that nothing need be said about that : they have proved themselves to be loyal to a man. * If a reasonable scupticism were to be exjiressed from any parties deserving attention, as to the accuracy of tlie general results of the answers returned to the questions which have I een put to the emigrants, I should not feel the slightest objection to giving, in the aiinutest detail, the 180 documents to which reference has been made. 7-2 60. What do you think would be the sentiment of the majority of the inhabitants of Upper Canada with respect to the introduc- tion of colonists on the principle described in the queries which have been proposed ? — That it would be highly favourable to it ; I think they would second any rational measure of colonisation carried on by the Government of this country by every means in their power. 61. You have stated that, admitting that 25,000 heads of families were produced to be colonised in the first year, allowing for that ratio of increase laid down by the Emigration Committee, and which is in fact your own ratio, you are of opinion that a million of persons might be satisfactorily located in the space of six years ; do you consider that a colonisation of that nature would be followed by a very extensive emigration, in which the expense would be incurred by the colonists themselves ? — I have no doubt of that — that such emigration would equal the number of persons sent out by Government, if it did not exceed it, for we have always found that to be the case. 62. You are aware that the proposition involves 200,000 heads of families, 200,000 wives, and 600,000 children ; are you still of opinion that, independent of those numbers, there would be an extensive emigration ? — Unquestionably that there would be a very extensive voluntary emigration, which I am satisfied would equal that of the Government ; I think it would exceed it, because we have always found that, whenever the Government gave encouragement to an emigrant, a great number of persons have gone out on their own means. After the emigration of 1831 we had for several years upwards of 50,000 persons per annum landed at Quebec. 63. Are you or are you not of opinion that if a colonisation of this nature took place, parties from a satisfactory community would find their way there, and dovetail into the rude population, as is found to be the case in the United States ? — Yes, I have no doubt they would, and it would require no exertion or expense on the part of Government to produce that result. 73 Such are the opinions of Mr. Ruhidge. * The practical good sense and valuable experience of this gentleman, I consider as the firmest support which the theory I liave so long endeavoured to impress upon a// classes has ever received. It, in- deed, appears scarcely necessary to add to the facts elicited in this examination ; hut if any Memher of Parliament entertains a douht as to the accuracy of Mr. Ruhidge's answers, let the matter he further in- vestigated. I am happy to say, that Mr. Ruhidge will he found in London, ready to undergo any exa- mination to which he may he suhmitted. Let such Memher of Parliament inform himself of the condi- tion of the emigrants of 1823 and 1825 in Ireland, before they were removed to that ' Nova Hihernia,' where their wretchedness has heen transmuted into prosperity — let him move, in his place in Parliament, for a return of the value of the present property of these once wretched paupers — and then pronounce whether I exaggerated the case in my Letter to Mr. O'Connell, in the year 1830, in asserting that a greater change from human misery to Imman hap- piness has never been recorded in the history of man- kind. Nothing but the conviction I feel of the impera- * Very useful information may be obtained upon the subject of voluntary emigration, from a pamphlet, entitled, A Plain Statement of the advantages attending Emigration to Upper Canada, written by Mr. Rubidge, and published by Simpkin, Marshall, and Co., Stationers' Court, Liidgate Hill. 74 tive necessity at this moment for the adoption of vigorous measures, could induce me again to brave the indifference, to use the mildest term, with which the subject has been hitherto received. The certainty with which I look forward to the change which must sooner or later take place in public opinion, and of which there have been already some symptoms, also encourages me to attempt, under the high auspices of which I have been permitted to avail myself, again to urge . immediate adop- tion of the cnly means by which not only im- mediate relief can be obtained, but the only means by which we may be enabled afterwards to carry into effect benefits not yet dreamed of in either hemisphere.* * The letters which have lately passed between me and Sir Francis Head will be found in the Appendix. R. WiLMOT HORTON. IT APPENDIX 1 beg to subjoin, as a final document, the letters whicli passed between Sir Francis Head and niyselt", on the subject of Irisb Colonisation. COPY OF A LETTER FROM SIR R. W. HORTON TO SIR FRANCIS HEAD, BART. Cavendish-square, May 21, 1838. My dear Sir, — Will you allow me to call your attention to page 355 on Minutes of Evidence, taken before a Select Com- mittee on Emigration in 182*7, in which, among other documents, you will find addresses to Earl Bathurst from the Irish emigrants of 1823-25? I need scarcely remind you that these emigrants, while in Ireland, were in a state of the utmost destitution. Had they re- mained there they would probably have perished under the com- bined infliction of physical want and mental despair. As far back as the year 1826, their gratitude for the favours conferred upon them in removing them from Ireland to Canada was unbounded. Even at that now distant period they thus ex- press themselves : — ' For the liberality of a humane and benevolent sovereign no language can express our gratitude, in having removed us from misery and want to a fine and fertile country, where we have the certain prospect of obtaining, by industry, a comfortable compe- tence : and we trust, my lord, the report of the progress we have already made on our lands will not fall short of your lordship's ex- pectations, taking into consideration that we have had to con- tend, in addition to inexperience, with the enemy of all new comers, the fever and ague, to a very great extent ; notwithstand- ing which, we have been able to provide ample provisions to sup- port our families comfortably until we harvest our next crop. ' We have reason to be thankful for the wisdom and discretion which appointed over us so honourable, kind, and indefatigable a superintendent, who has used every exertion and care in provid- ing for our every want. ' Above all, we rejoice that, in this happy country, we are still 76 under the government of our illr.8triou8 sovereign, to whose sacred present government we beg ♦o express the most unfeigned loyalty and attachment. We beg most respectfully to add, that we cheriuh the hope that more of our unfortunate and suiTering countrymen, at no distant period, may, by means of the same ge- nerous feeling, be brought to share the blessing we enjoy.' Again they say :— * Having now resided about a twelvemonth on our lands, we have every reason to be thankful for the excellent locations assigned us ; and we trust, notwithstanding the difficulties our inexperience has had naturally to contend with, that the investigation our worthy superintendent has caused to be made of our actual improvements will not be uninteresting to his Majesty's government, particularly to your lordship, whose zeal in furthering emigration to this pro- vince is so eminently conspicuous. * We take this opportunity of expressing to your lordship how mucb of gratitude we owe to the Honourable Peter Robinson, our leader, our adviser, our friend, since we have been under his di- rection, particularly for his exertions in administering to our com- forts during a season of sickness and privation. * We beg to assure your lordship of our loyalty and attachment to our gracious sovereign's most sacred person and government.' Again : — * We have been brought from a country where we had many difficulties to contend with, and supported here to this time at the expense of government ; our every want has been anticipated and provided for, and indepuidence not only brought within our reach, but actually bestowed upon us.' And again : — * We trust our orderly conduct as members of society, and steady loyalty as subjects of the British Crown, will evir .e the gratitude we feel for the many favours we have received. * That the blessings of a grateful people may surround the throne of his Majesty is the sincere prayer of ' Your lordship's most respectful, humble servants.' 77 t When I endeavoured to point out to parties adverse to emigration these passages so redolent of gratitude and loyalty, I waa told they were addresses hatched up by persons not really representing the emigrants ; thnt tiie project of converting miserable and destitute paupers in Ireland was a senseless and dangerous project ; and that if the day should arrive when, either from a rupture with America or a conflict with the French Canadians, their loyalty and gratitude would be put to the test, they would be found miser- ably wanting. I now beg to know whether the emigrants known in Canada as Robinson's emigrants, were or were not at the period of the late crisis in Canada, in 1838, in the exercise of that loyalty which they professed in the year 1826?* I remain, my dear Sir, Your faithful, humble servant. Sir Francis Head, Bart. R. Wilmot Horton. 62, Park-street, Grosvenor-square, May 21, 1833. My dear Sir, — I have just received your letter of this day, in which you inquire whether certain emigrants, to whom you have alluded, ' were or were not at the period of the late crisis in * Mr. Mackenzie, of Canadian notoriety, was, in 1825, the editor of the Colonial Advocate ; and, on the 8th of December in that year, an article ap- peared headed ' Mr. Robinsnii's Irish Settlers,' ofwhich the following is a copy : — ' We have infurniation which may be depended on, stating that these people have an ardent desire to go to the United States, and that they fre- qiiently desert. No less than thit'ty of them decamped lately in one night. To how much more useful a purpose might 30,000/, have been expended than in recruiting in Ireland for the United States, soldiers by Canadian counciliors I' The first part of this misstatement was contradicted in the IVeekly Register of the 26th of December, 1825, by a Mr. Fitzgibbon ; with respect to the second part, the paragraph respecting the 30,000/. shows the futile hopes which were entertained by the disloyal themselves of the disloyalty of these praiseworthy settlers. '8 »' f: Canada, in 1 838, in the exercise of that loyalty which they pro- fessed in the year 1826 ?' My reply to your question is in the affirmative. On receiving intelligence that Toronto had been attacked by a band of rebels, the settlers to whom you have alluded were among those who at once marched from the Newcastle district, in the depth of winter, nearly 100 miles to support the government. On finding a body of the Honourable Peter Robinson's settlers self-assembled in line before Government-house, I went out and thanked them ; to which they replied that they were doing well in the world ; that they felt grateful to the British government ; and that they had come to fight for the British constitution. I remain, my dear Sir, Your faithful, humble servant, , Francis B. Head. The Right Hon. Sir R. W. Horton, Bart. f '7f' ■■ !■■ London . Printed by W, CiiOWKS and Sons, Stamford Strc't. g at ra [id in nd