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t A 
 
 North American 
 Fish and Game 
 Protective 
 Association 
 
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 MiP^tes of tl^c Proceedings 
 of tl^e First GopVeptiop 
 
 HELD AT MONTREAL 
 2nd FEBRUARY 1900. 
 
 
 
 
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 Imprimerie Darveau, Jos. Beauchamp, Prop., Quebec. ^ 
 
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THE NORTH AMERICAN 
 
 FISH AND GAME 
 
 PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION 
 
 --*4«M^- 
 
 MINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE 
 FIRST CONVENTION 
 
 Held at Montrea^ 2nd February. 1900. 
 
 QUEBEC 
 Imprimerie Darvbau, Jos. Bbauohamp, Prop. 
 
 190() 
 
 HI 
 

 Nam 
 
 Hon 
 F. G 
 H. i 
 J. E 
 Dr.' 
 
 J. H 
 H. I 
 Hod 
 H. S 
 Johi 
 J. A^ 
 Hod 
 Dr. 
 D. C 
 
 Chas 
 
Tlje North Anjericaij Fish and Ganje 
 f rotective Association. 
 
 Nambu of Membeus present attue first Meetino 
 Held at Montreal, February 2nd, 1900. 
 
 Hon. S. N. Parent, Quebec. 
 
 F. G. Bntterfield, Rock Island, P. Q. 
 
 H. A. Price, A. G. P. A., I. C. R., Montreal. 
 
 J. E. Walsh. A. G. P. A., C. A. R., Ottawa. 
 
 Dt. T. a. Brisson, Colonisation Agent, 1546, 
 Notre- Darae, Montreal. 
 
 J. H. Walsh. Q. C. R., Sherbrooke. 
 
 H. R. Charlton, Adv. Agt. G. T. R. Montreal. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Dunn, Surveyor General, N. B. 
 
 H. S Osier, Game Commissioner, Ontario. 
 
 John Fottler, Jr., Boston. 
 
 J. W. Titcomb, St. Johnsbury, Vc. 
 
 Hun. Shcwan, Montreal. 
 
 Dr. Porter, McGill College, Montreal. 
 
 D. G. Smith» Fishery Commissioner for New- 
 Brunswick, Chatham, N. B. 
 
 Chas. E, Oak, of the Fi.sh and Game Commission, 
 of Maine and Land Agent for State, Caribou, 
 Maine. 
 
— 4 — 
 
 N. E. Cormier, Aylmer East, P. Q. 
 
 Dr. G. A. MacCallum, Pres. Out. Game and 
 
 Commission. 
 W. H. Drummond, Linrentian, St. Maurice, and 
 
 Weymahegan Clubs. 
 C. liankin, Hudson Bay Co, Mattawa. 
 L. Z. Jonciis, Quebec. 
 Ii4h6 Dupont, Quebec. 
 Horace W. Bailey, State Commissioner, Newburg, 
 
 Vt. 
 
 E. T. D. Chambers, Quebec. 
 
 P. W. Resseman, 0. and G. lly, Ottawa, Out. 
 
 L. 0. Armstrong, C. P. R., Montreal. 
 
 John McCombie, Bellevue Hotel, T^miscamingue. 
 
 W. E. Davis, G. P. and T. A., G. T. R., Montreal. 
 
 Dr. Finnic, Montreal. 
 
 S. T. Bastedo, Deputy Fish Commissioner for 
 
 Ontario. 
 James Dickson, Funelou Falls. 
 
 F. S. Hodges, Boston. 
 
 C. H. Wilson, Glens Falls, N. Y. 
 
 J. H., Stearns, Montreal. 
 
 C. E. E. Ussher, G. P. A., C. P. R., Montreal. 
 
 L. B. KuigUt, Chief Game Commissioner for 
 
 New- Brunswick, St. John, N. B. 
 Henry 0. Stanley, of the Fish and Game Com- 
 
 mission of Maine, Dixfield, Maine. 
 W. J. Cleghorn, Secy. Fish and Game Protection 
 
 Club, Montreal, P. Q. 
 W. G. Parish, Game and Fish Commissioner of 
 
 Ontario, Athens, Ont. 
 
 L. 
 
— 6 — 
 
 [ic and 
 ice, and 
 
 jwburg, 
 
 Out. 
 
 Qiingue. 
 [ontreal. 
 
 ner for 
 
 real, 
 ner for 
 
 e Com- 
 
 )tectioD 
 
 oner of 
 
 Commo(1oro W. H. Parker Laurcntian, St. Mau- 
 rice, Weymahegan, Mnsketsy, Shawinigan 
 and Lonely Island Clubs. 
 
 L. E. Carufel, Montreal. 
 
 The rollourinirqiietllonswere discussed by 
 the members present t_ 
 
 1. Harmonizing of laws of the Provinces and 
 States ; 
 
 2. Better methods of collection of provincial 
 license fees ; 
 
 3. Better methods of enforcing Game Laws, and 
 additionnal powers to be given to Game Wardens. 
 
 4. Interesting the Press, both weekly and daily, 
 and through them the people in the belief that 
 the Game and Fish arc valuable assets ; and that 
 more money accrues to the people at large by 
 strict observance of the Fish and Game Laws 
 than by poaching ; 
 
 5. Universal gun license ; 
 
 6. Licensed guide system ; 
 
 7. Absolute protection at all seasons of song 
 birds and insectivorous birds beneficial to Agri- 
 culture ; 
 
 8. Limit the bag of Game ; 
 
 9. Fish culture ; 
 
 10. Limit the size and number of fish caught ; 
 
 11. Distribution of fish from the Government 
 hatcheries ; 
 
— 6 — 
 
 12. Bounties for the killing of wolves and wiUl 
 cats ; 
 
 13. License coupons systenr ; 
 
 14. Dogs chasing deer ; 
 
 1 5. Shooting deer in the water ; 
 
 16. Imposition of a license on mar):t't men and 
 game dealers ; 
 
 17. Imposition of a license on those who are 
 buying, selling and tanning deer, moose, cariboo 
 skins ; 
 
 18. Hunting camps permanent license ; 
 
 19. Cold storage ; 
 
 20. Leasing of hunting and fishing territories ; 
 
 21. Encouraging the formation of Fish and 
 Game protection clubs ; 
 
 22. Transportation and sale ; 
 
 23. Spring shooting ; 
 
 The follonrinff officers were then Electcil : — 
 
 Chairman : —Hon. S. N. Parent, Commissioner 
 of Crown Lands for Quebec. 1st Vice-President : 
 — G. W. Titcomb, Commissioner of Fisherie.s for 
 Vermont, St. Johnsbury, Vermont. 2nd Vice- 
 President : S. T. Bastedo, Deputy-Commissioner 
 of Fisheries for Ontario, Toronto, Out. 3rd Vice- 
 President : — John Fottler, Jnr ; Boston, Mass. 
 4lh Vice-President :— Hon. Mr. Dunn ; Surveyor 
 General, New-Brunswick. 5th Vicc-Piesident : - 
 Chas. £. Oak of the Fish and Game Commission 
 
of Mnino and Land Agent for State? ; Caribou, 
 Maine. 6th Vico-President : — C. 11. Wilson ; 
 Glens Falls, N. Y. S(»cretary : — L. Z. Joncas ; 
 Queljcc. As9t. Secretaries : — Mr Siuilli ; Cha- 
 tham, N. B. — R»^n6 Dii|>ont ; Quelxjc. 
 
 The followliifr inotioiiH urcre then moved 
 
 nnd adopted. 
 
 I. Moved by L. 0. Armstrong, seconded by W. 
 G. Parish, 
 
 Resolved that the name of this convention le 
 " The Nouth Amkric\n Fish and Game Puo- 
 TECTivK Association." 
 
 II. Mc'yl by C. E. E. Usf^her, seconded by S. 
 T. P -tedo, 
 
 Resolved that a committee be formed of two 
 representatives from each state and province to 
 report at next annual meeting on possibilities of 
 harmonizing of Fish and Game Laws of the Prov- 
 inces and States. That said committee would be 
 be formed thus : 
 
 New- York : C. H. Wilson, J. H. Seymour ; 
 Maine : H. 0. Stanley, Chas. E. Oak ; 
 
 New-Brunswick : Hon. Mr. Dunn, D. G. 
 
 Smith ; 
 
 Vermont : H. W. Bailey, F. G. Butterfield ; 
 
 Massachusetts : John Fottler, Jnr., F. S. 
 Hodges ; 
 
 Ontario : S. T. Bastedo, Dr. G A. MacCallum ; 
 
mmm 
 
 — 8 — 
 
 Quebec : L. Z. Joncas, N. E. Cormier ; 
 
 The convener of this committee to be Mr. L. Z. 
 Joncas. 
 
 Moved by J. E. Walsh, seconded by P. W. 
 Eesseman, 
 
 Kesolved that it is the sense of this meeting 
 that, in the general interests of fish and game 
 protection, it is desirable to, as far as practicable, 
 harmonize the game and fish laws of the Provinces 
 and States represented at this meeting. 
 
 III. Moved by W. G. Parish, seconded by J. 
 McCombie, 
 
 Resolved that as many waters have not at 
 present the right dates for close seasons for angling, 
 that it ie the opinion of this convention that the 
 authorities who have the naming of said dates, 
 should make more efforts to find out proper times 
 for close seasons. 
 
 Moved by W. G, Parish, seconded by J. E. 
 Walsh, 
 
 Resolved that it is expedient for the proper 
 authorities to instruct their wardens and officers 
 to enforce laws, in all cases, with as much courtesy 
 as possible, especially regarding to foreign sports- 
 men. 
 
 III. Moved by Dr. Finnic, seconded by Dr. 
 Drummond, 
 
 Resolved that this meeting believes that the 
 best results in enforcing game laws cannot be 
 
— 9 — 
 
 gained unless their enforcement is altogether 
 divorced frpm politics ; 
 
 Resolved that we believe a prosecution for 
 infraction of game or fish laws should be pushed 
 to a conclusion as soon as {iossible in every case ; 
 
 Eesolved that we strongly object to the perni- 
 cious practice of remission or payment by Prov- 
 incial or State Governments, or their Officers of 
 fines imposed on offenders, or of suspended sen- 
 tences or any other device of which the intent is 
 to defeat the ends of Justice for any reason 
 political or otherwise. 
 
 Moved by E. T. D. Chambers, seconded by C. 
 E. E. Ussher, 
 
 Hesolved that copies of this resolution be sent 
 to all interested Governments. 
 
 IV. Moved by C. E. E. Ussher, Seconded by 
 Mr Wilson, 
 
 Whereas the daily and weekly press wields 
 great influence and is the best means for reaching 
 and informing the general public on matters of 
 current interest, and 
 
 Whereas it is extremely desirable to create a 
 universal sentiment in favor of the enforcement of 
 Game and Fi&h Laws, to disseminate correct 
 information rospectiug the value of Fish and Game 
 resources as a mean of attracting non-resident and 
 consequent large disbursements ">f money among 
 the people, much of it in the wilder and poorer 
 
 £ 
 
— 10 — 
 
 sectioDs where its receipt is of the greatest value, 
 therefore, be it, 
 
 Resolved that d copy of this preamble and reso- 
 lution, to be followed as soon as issued by the 
 proceedings of this convention, be sent to eveiy 
 newspaper in the States and Provinces here repre- 
 sented and to the associated Press, and that they 
 be requested to give the subject of fish and game 
 interests such editorial and other notice from time 
 to time as its great importance warrants. 
 
 Moved by L. 0. Armstrong, Seconded by John 
 McCombie, 
 
 Eesolved that in cariying out the spirit of 
 Section 4, when any infraction of the Fish and 
 Game Laws may be reported by the members of 
 this Association to the Press, that the word 
 •* Protection " be carefully retained in mentioning 
 our name as an association, in as much as we are 
 a democratic people, on both sides of the boundary 
 lines, and that it is expedient that we should 
 obtaiL and retain the sympathy of the people in 
 every way possible. 
 
 V. Moved by L. 0. Armstrong, Seconded by 
 D. G. Smith, 
 
 Resolved that clause 5 bo omitted. 
 
 VI. Moved by Dr. Finnic, Seconded by Mr. 
 Koss, 
 
 Resolved that this meeting ai)proves of the 
 Maine State's licensed guide system and recom- 
 mends the general adoption of it or some modifi- 
 
- 11 — 
 
 cation of name which shall be suited to the wants 
 of each State or Province. 
 
 VII. Moved by C. E. E. Ussher, Seconded by 
 C. E. Oak, 
 
 Resolved that this association is in favor of the 
 absolute protection at all seasons of song birds 
 and insectivorous birds beneficial to Agriculture 
 and recommends legislation to that end in any 
 province or state where it does i\ot exist. 
 
 VIII-IX. Moved by D. G. Smith, Seconded by 
 C. E. E. Ussher, 
 
 Eesolved that clauses 8 and 10 be discussed 
 together. 
 
 Moved by M. G. Parish, seconded by H. S. 
 Osier, 
 
 Resolved that it is of -the opinion of this con- 
 vention that the proper authorities should enact 
 laws limiting bags of game and size and number 
 of fish killed. 
 
 IX- XI. Moved by L. O. Armstrong, Seconded 
 by C. E. E. Ussher, 
 
 Resolved that clauses 9 and 11 be discussed 
 together. 
 
 Moved by E. T. D. Chambers, Seconded by 
 Dr. Porter, 
 
 Resolved that experience having fully demons- 
 trated the beneficial results of fish culture con- 
 ducted upon proper scientific principles, this con- 
 vention would hail with pleasure a generous 
 
— 12 — 
 
 extension of the industry under both federal, state 
 or provincial control and would express the hope 
 that the age at which fry are planted and the 
 methods of planting ehould receive that careful 
 investigation and study which the importance of 
 the matter demands. 
 
 Moved by L. 0. Armstrong, seconded by W. 
 11. Parker, 
 
 Eesolved that each state and provincial Govern^ 
 ment be memorealized to obtain a lime-light 
 lantern and slides and a lecturer to educate the 
 public on the impcicance of fish culture. 
 
 XII. Moved by John McCombie, seconded by 
 P. W. Eesseman, 
 
 Resolved that the convention recommends a 
 substantial bounty be paid for wolves, wolverines 
 (carcajous), and wild cats. 
 
 XIII. Moved by C. E. E. Ussher, seconded by 
 N. E. Cormier, 
 
 Whereas it is not practicable to adequately 
 control the transportation of big game unless some 
 means be adopted of tagging the carcasses, and 
 
 Whereas the operation of the so-called Coupon 
 Tag System in Ontario has demonstrated charly 
 that is the most feasible means for securing an 
 adequate check, 
 
 Therefore be it resolved that we recommend 
 adoption generally of the Coupon Tag System, or 
 some modification of it, for all transportation of 
 Deer, Cariboo and Moose. 
 
 Hi) 
 
13 — 
 
 XIV-XV. Moved by John McCombio, second- 
 ed by C. E. E. Ussher, 
 
 Resolved that clauses 14 and 15 be discussed 
 together. 
 
 Moved by L. 0. Armstrong, seconded by Mr. 
 Smith, 
 
 That Dr. Poller, of the McGill University, be 
 heard to-morrow morning, (Saturday, 3rd Febru- 
 ary, 1900). (Adjourned till 10 A. M. to-morrow, 
 (Saturday, 3rd February, 1900). 
 
 Moved by Mr. Ross, seconded by C. E. E. 
 Ussher, 
 
 Resolved that the Convention dissapproves of 
 the habit of killing red deer with the aid of dogs 
 or in the water, and recommends the abolition of 
 all laws peimitting this practice at any season of 
 the year. 
 
 XVI-XVII. Moved by D. G. Smith, seconded 
 by J. W. Titcomb, 
 
 Resolved that clauses 16 and 17 be left over, 
 there having been no discussion on these clauses. 
 
 Moved by J. W. Titcomb, seconded by C. H. 
 Wilson, 
 
 Resolved ihat the sentiment of this convention 
 is opposed to the sale of game in open market at 
 all seasons of the year. 
 
 Moved by W. G. Parish, seconded by W. J. 
 Titcomb, 
 
 Resolved that, in view of the large destruction 
 
— 14 — 
 
 of game caused by market or Pot-Huiiters, this 
 convention would recommend the non-sale of 
 game, or the restriction of same as much as pos- 
 sible. 
 
 XVIII. Moved in amendment by Hon. Mr, 
 Dunn, seconded by C. E. E. Ussher, 
 
 Whereas this association having heard with 
 great interest the explicit statement of the repre- 
 sentatives from Maine, respecting subjects 16, 17 
 and 18 and the excellent results from the opera- 
 tion of their laws relating to sueh matters, both 
 from the standpoint of Game Protection and for 
 statistical purposes, therefore be it 
 
 Resolved that we are in favor of i system by 
 which the maiket-men, game- dealers, buyers, 
 sellers and tanners of deer, moose and cariboo 
 skins, and proprietors of hunting camps shall, if it 
 can be legally so arranged in any state or pro- 
 vince, be duly licensed by the chief game authori- 
 ties of the state or province and reporting perio- 
 dically thereto. 
 
 XIX. No resolution passed. 
 
 XX. Whereas the object of this convention is 
 also to make more accessible to sportsmen, either 
 of this country or of any other country, the nume- 
 rous fishing and shooting territories of this pro- 
 vince, it is therefore. 
 
 Moved by Dr. T. A. Brisson, seconded by L. O. 
 Armstrong, 
 
 Besolved that it would be desirable to have on 
 
15 
 
 [sale by the Departmeut of Crown Lands and 
 Fiaheries lots of from 2 to 10 acres at ordinary 
 {conditions excepting laud clearing. 
 
 Moved by C. E. E. Usshyr, seconded by Dr 
 [Vorter, 
 
 Resolved that the sense of this meeting is that 
 [the best interest of those states and provinces 
 which permit leases to club would not be served 
 by leasing their entire wild lauds, but that a con- 
 siderable portion of such territory should be left 
 open for shooting and fishing under proper restric- 
 Itions. 
 
 XXI. Moved by W. H. Drummond, seconded 
 |by J. H. Stearns, 
 
 Resolved that we believe the formation of Fish 
 land Game Protective Association is a very desira- 
 Ible feature in the enforcement of Fish and Game 
 Laws and we therefore recommend to the Govern- 
 ineuts of our resi.ective states ixwd provinces that 
 [every reasonable encouragement be given to the 
 Iformation of such Associations. 
 
 Moved by Chas. E. Oak, seconded by F. G. 
 •utteifield, 
 
 Resolved that transportation and sale of Game 
 md Fish be added to program as clause number 22. 
 
 XXII. Moved by John Fottler, seconded by 
 [on. Mr Dunn, 
 
 Resolved that this Association requests of 
 transportation companies to instruct their agents 
 
— 16 — 
 
 to render any assistance to the enforcement of the 
 law in regard to shipments of Game and Fish. 
 
 Moved by C. E. E. Ussher, seconded by D. G. 
 Smith, 
 
 Kesolvod that " Spring shooting " bo added to 
 the program as clause number 23. 
 
 XXIII. Moved by James Dickson, seconded 
 by W. E. Davies, 
 
 Resolved that this convention recommends the 
 spring shooting be prohibited as much as possible. 
 
 i 
 
 ¥. 
 
 The followlnir resolutions were then u- 
 dopted and coinmitcces appointed. 
 
 Moved by E. T. D. Chambers, seconded by 
 Charles Ross, 
 
 Resolved that Messrs. L. Z. Joncas and R(^nd 
 Dupont, of Quebec ; Dr. Drumniond, C. E. E. 
 Ussher and Dr. Finnie, of Montreal ; H. S. Osier 
 and S. T. Bastedo, of Ontario ; Hon. Mr. Dunn, of 
 New-Brunswick ; J. W. Titconib, of Vermont ; 
 H. O. Stanley, of Maine ; C. H. Wilson, of New- 
 York ; and John Fottler, Jnr,, of Massachusetts 
 with the mover and the seconder be a committee 
 to prepare a constitution and by-laws for the 
 ]}ermanent organization ot the North American 
 Fish and Game Protective Associatiox : and to 
 report the same at the next meeting of this body. 
 
 Moved by F. G. Butterfield, seconded by J. E. 
 Walsh, 
 
 Resolved that a committee of present members 
 
 1 
 
— 17 — 
 
 it members 
 
 representing say one of each state and province be 
 formed to report where the next annual meeting 
 will be held : time and place. Said committee to 
 be composed of the following members : 
 
 Ontauio : H. S. Osier. 
 Quebec : Dr. W. H. Drummond. 
 New-Brunswick : Hon. Mr. Dunn. 
 Vermont : J. W. Titcomb. 
 Maine : H. 0. Stanley. 
 New-York : C. H. Wilson. 
 Massachusetts : John Fottler, Jnr. 
 Keport of Committee : — 
 
 Moved by C. H. Wilson, seconded by John 
 Fottler, Jnr., 
 
 Resolved that the next annual meeting of the 
 Association be held in Montreal in mid-winter, 
 subject to a call of the President on two weeks 
 notice to delegates. 
 
 Report of General Committee : — 
 
 Moved by F. G. Butterfield, seconded by D. 
 G. Smith, 
 
 Resolved that this report be adopted. 
 
 Moved by C. E. E. Ussher, seconded by N. E. 
 1 1 :)rmier, 
 
 Resolved that the following letter should be 
 I addressed to the members of the Press in general, 
 in the states and provinces here represented : 
 
 To THE Press, 
 
— 18 — 
 
 Gentlemen : — 
 
 In giving effect to the following resolution, we 
 sollicit your hearty cooperation, feeling assured 
 that not only will youi assistance nialeriully help 
 forward a work of real urgency, a public necessity 
 and of general benefit to the ronnra unity at large, 
 in the states and provinces here represented but 
 redound to your credit us a public spirited insti- 
 tution. 
 
 (l-lnclosing copy of resolutions.) 
 
 i:*RESiDENT : Hon. S. N. Parent, Que. 
 
 Vice-Presidents : Hon. A. T. Dunn, N. B. ;| 
 
 J. W. Titcomb, Vt. ; S. T. Bastedo, Ont. ; John 
 
 Fottler, Jnr., Mass. ; Ohas. E. Oak, Me. ; C. H.| 
 Wilson, N. Y. 
 
 . Joint Secretaries : D. G. Smith, N. B. ;L.Z.\ 
 Joncas, Que. ; R(Sn^ Dupont, Que. 
 
 Moved by G. Smith, seconlod by E. T. D. 
 Chambers, 
 
 Resolved that a committee of this association! 
 to be called the " Promotive Committee " bel 
 appointed for the purpose of furnishing data and! 
 to otherwise dessiminating through the Press audi 
 and other channels of communication with the! 
 people, information calculated to promote our| 
 protective objects. 
 
 Moved by D. G. Smith, seconded by E. T. D.| 
 Chambers, 
 
 Resolved that we should proceed imraediatel)! 
 to the appointment of the Promotive Committee.! 
 
— 19 — 
 
 Unanimously carried that tho following gentle- 
 men bo meniber.s of the «f.i»l wnnmittee : 
 
 Nrw-Buunswick : Hon. A. T. Dunn, D. G. 
 Smith, L. B. Knight, Percy Baker ; 
 
 Ontario : S. T. Bastedo, Dr. G. A. McCalluni, 
 II. S. Osier, W. G. Parish, W. B. Wells, James 
 Dickson, Crawford Ross, Tensly ; 
 
 Nfav-Yuuk : 0. Shields, G. G. Cotton, J. H. 
 Seymour, C. H. Wilson, Cheney ; 
 
 Quebec : L. Z. Joncas, C. E. E. Ussher, E. T. 
 D. Chambers, L. 0. Armstrong, J. H. Walsh, H. 
 11. Charlton, P. W. Itesseman, W. H. Davis, H. 
 .1. B.einer, J. G. bcoU, W. 11. Talker, N. K. 
 Ooiniicr, W. J. Cieghfirn, J)r. Finnie ; 
 
 Ma.^saciiusi.it« : John Fottler, Jnr. ; 
 
 VehMOM : Fi.sk.', II. W. Bailey, J. W. Titcomb; 
 
 New-Yoi;k (Conn.) : Paul Smith, Jnr., C. B. 
 Ileynolds ; 
 
 Maine : Carlton, Chas. E. Oak, H. 0. Stanley, 
 F. W. Cram ; 
 
 Illinois : N. Roe, Chicago ; Shank-", Chicago. 
 
 Moved by C. H. Wilson, seconded by D. G, 
 Smith, 
 
 Resolved that this association bo a committee 
 of the whole to promote its own membership and 
 to report the names of gentlemen who desire to 
 become ra^ml)ers to the secretary to be presented 
 at the next annual meeting. 
 
— 20 — 
 
 F Moved l)y C. E. E. TJssher, seconded by D. 0,| 
 Smith, 
 
 Resolved thftt this convention now adjourn. 
 
 By Honourable S. N. Parent : 
 
 Gentlemen : 
 
 The Province of Quebec will undertake the] 
 printing,' and mailing of the report of the proceed- 
 ings to the Press and I suggest that a copy of 
 same be sent to each member of this conventionl 
 here present. Unanimously carried. 
 
REPORT 
 
 OV THE CONVENTION OF 
 
 ItHE north AMERICAN FISH AND GAME 
 PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION 
 
 HELD AT MONTREAL 
 
 2nd February, 1900. 
 Mu. OsLER :— 
 
 • 
 
 Mr. Chuirinan : — You will be glad to know 
 iliafc some business has been done during the 
 ailjournment ; t''v.>ugh we are a little lute. I 
 have the honor to present to you the report of 
 the Coniinittoe which was appointed to reconi- 
 iiiond the time and place of the next meeting of 
 the Association. It consists simply of the Reso- 
 lution that is carried unanimously : 
 
 Moved by Mr. Wilson, of New-York ; Se- 
 jcondcd by Mr. Butler, of Massachusetts ; 
 
 " That the next annual meeting of the Asso- 
 jciutiou be held in Montreal, in midwinter, sub- 
 ect to the call of the Honorable President ; two 
 hveeks' notice to be given to delegates." 
 
 That Resolution was carried unanimously, and 
 hat is the report of the Ccnnmittee : 
 
 Moved by Mr. Smith, that this motion be 
 dopted. Carried. 
 
 Speaker : — 
 
 Before proceeding to general business, I would 
 ike to ask the meeting to throw out as a sug- 
 
— 22 — 
 
 gestiou whether it would be a good time now to 
 bring a Committee together, and draft a report 
 for that next annual meeting, the basis of the 
 constitution for this body, as it has been decided 
 that this is a permanent organisation, establis- 
 hing what shall constitute membership, and also 
 whether there shall be such a body, to look after 
 their own particular interests. If it is to be a 
 permanent organisation, a constitution would be 
 necessary, and I would suggest that, that com- 
 mittee just named be appointed with power to 
 act, with power to draw up a constitution. If 
 there is no reason why it should not be proposed, 
 I will propose it. 
 
 A Speaker :— 
 
 Before the motion is put in writing, there is 
 something I would like to suggest is necessary : 
 why the Committee c^/e to the conclusion 
 which has been adopted by the meeting wixs 
 that it wp.s thoujjht that this Association ouffht 
 to take some more permanent form to complete 
 its organisation as an association, before moving 
 to some other city or some other state or pro- 
 vince. Now, sir, I think this is a matter which 
 requires some little thought and consideration, 
 and perhaps some little time, and the Comnjit- 
 tee, such as the suggested committee, consisting 
 of members, .so widely separated might be said 
 almost to be impossible to meet between now 
 and the time of the next meeting. I would, there- 
 fore, suggest, if the mover accepts the suggestion, 
 that the Connnitteetoatfectan organisation and 
 
«- 23 — 
 
 a plan for the organisation, should meet before 
 the next meeting, and should consist of members, 
 say from Montreal or Quebec ; members, at all 
 events who could more easily meet and discustS 
 the matter and put it in shape. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman. — It seems to me that the Com- 
 mittee in this resolution provides for that very 
 thing, by which they are given power to add to 
 their number. Now, I should suppose they 
 would add a sufficient number of gentlemen to 
 this Committee, from Montreal and Quebec, so 
 tliat the thing would go right along, and it saves 
 us time ; wc have something tangible, and we 
 have got the thing started, and they should 
 make a committee of very representative men, 
 and they could pick a committee quite as easily 
 as this Convention could. 
 
 A Speaker :— - 
 
 I think that it is the correct idea, and I have 
 no doubt that the Committee will probably en- 
 trust the work to a special committee, who will 
 select and codify laws,and have them printed and 
 submitted to the different members, for the 
 alterations to be ma^de, and finally laid before 
 this Board at its next annual meeting. 
 
 A Speaker :-— 
 
 I quite agree with what has been suggested 
 by the last speaker that there are conditions 
 existing in certain districts that might be pecu- 
 liar to these districts, and as this Committee is 
 
■n 
 
 — 24 — 
 
 composed of only one member from each pro- 
 vince, the conditions existing in the district 
 that this member might hail from are not always 
 the same as are existing all over a certain pro- 
 vince; and it peems to me that it should be 
 decided on who should compose this Committee. 
 For example, Ontario is a very large place, and 
 Quebec is a very large place ; there may be 
 some peculiar features attaching to the laws in 
 the lower province of Quebec, and there may 
 be some different conditions existing in the 
 extreme M^estern parts of the Province of Que- 
 bec ; and it seems to me that for the provinces 
 of Ontario and Quebec, at least ther*) might be 
 two delegates appointed on that Committee. 
 Anyway, I should think it ought to be settled 
 now. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman. — As I understand it, the mat- 
 ter of locality, particular localities in different 
 states or provinces do not enter into the getting 
 up of a code of laws to govern a large body 
 like this. I think it is merely to provide a 
 usual constitution and by-laws governing orga- 
 nisations of this kind, and it is really not very 
 necessary that every district should bo repre- 
 sented, because what will apply to one will 
 apply to the others. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I move that we go on with number 4 : " In- 
 teresting the press, both weekly and daily, and 
 
— as- 
 through thorn the people in the belief that the 
 rraine and fish are valuable assets, and that more 
 mono}' accrues to the people at large by strict 
 observance of the fish and game laws than by 
 poaching." 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman — On the question of No. 4, 
 I would like to offer this; " Whereas the daily 
 and weekly press yields great influence and is 
 the best means for reaching and informing the 
 general public in matters of public interest. 
 And whereas it is extremely desirable to in- 
 terest them in the game nnd fish laws, to 
 dissimmatc correct information respecting the 
 value of fish and game reserve, as d ,mej\n 
 of protecting non-residents, and consequent 
 large di.sbursements of money among the people, 
 much of it in the wildest and poorer sections, 
 where its receipt is of great value. " Therefore 
 be it resolved that a copy of this Resolution be 
 .sent to the newspapers in every section here 
 represented, and to the associated press, and 
 that they be requested to give the subject of 
 fish and game such notice from time to time as 
 its great importjincc warrants. 
 
 The motion was read by the chairman. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President : — Speaking to this motion, I 
 would like to point out that in making fish and 
 game laws and in trying to enforce them, that 
 enforcement would have to fail, unless you have 
 
— 26 — 
 
 a healthy public sentiment behind you, and 
 that you will not have a public sentiment behind 
 you, unless you invoke the aid of the press ; 
 you cannot possibly reach them otherwise. I 
 move the adoption. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President. — I be^ a thousand pardons ; 
 I have found results here which absolutely re- 
 quire as the gentleman at my left remarked, an 
 appropriation; and I think that we could make 
 arrangements for appropriation. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I suppose that the idea was that at the com- 
 pletion of the organisation of this Society, that 
 there would be annual fees, dues etc. I suppose 
 this will come hereafter. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would move that in carrying out the spirit 
 of Section 4, when any infraction of the fish and 
 game laws be reported by this Association, to 
 the press, that the word " protection " be men- 
 tioned. Inasmuch as we are a democratic peo- 
 ple, on both sides of the line, and it is expedient 
 that we should obtain the sympathy of the 
 people in every way possible. That is, I would 
 like the idea to go abroad that we are an asso- 
 ciation to protect ourselves and to give ourselves 
 fishing and shooting, to retain the sympathy of 
 the people. 
 
 Mr. McCombie seconds the motion. 
 
— 27 — 
 
 you, and 
 snt behind 
 he press ; 
 irwise. I 
 
 pardons ; 
 
 utely re- 
 
 irked, an 
 
 uld make 
 
 the com- 
 ity, that 
 suppose 
 
 he spirit 
 fish and 
 ation, to 
 be men- 
 tic peo- 
 :pedient 
 of the 
 I would 
 in asso- 
 irselves 
 •athy of 
 
 I, A Speaker:— 
 
 With your permission, I would like to say 
 only one remark. I refer to number 3. One of 
 the qualifications that we have for wardens in 
 our state, I think is greatly booeticial. It is this. 
 Every warden is obliged to give a bond of 
 S2,000.00 for the faithful performance of his 
 duties. If there is anything on earth that will 
 hurt the fish and game interests, and at the 
 same time the warden, it is the poacher, and 
 will affect the Association. We want our 
 wardens to be absolutely faithful and honest. 
 With a $2,000.00 bond behind thorn guarantee- 
 ing that they will be faithful and honest, it 
 serves, I think, for quite an incentive. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 What will constitute a forfeiture of the 
 bond ? 
 
 Answer. Dishonesty in misappropriating 
 funds or fines that they have collected, or con- 
 nivance with any poacher, to evade the law, or 
 poaching, himself. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would just say we have that law in Ontario, 
 requiring that every overseer hhall furnish 
 bonds for the return of fees and flues and 
 moneys received by him ; but not for the 
 discharge of his duty. 
 
 The Chairman : — 
 
 No. 5, universal gun license. 
 
— 28 — 
 
 ■ v.; : 
 
 A Speaker :— 
 
 Mr President: — If there is anything to be 
 said on No. 5, I would Jisk a question. I do not 
 quite thoroughly understand tlie matter of gun 
 license because I have never ha<l occasion to do 
 any shooting in Canada ; but I have a license 
 to fish. I understand that you have a license 
 to fish, which may be a temporary license for 
 one season, for a certain sum of money ; you 
 also have a license to shoot there, for a different 
 sum of money, with I think is not the same 
 aniount. I wish an opinion as to whether a 
 man having a fishing license is entitled during 
 that same year, provided it is an annual license, 
 whether he has a right to go there in the 
 autumn and shoot, under the same license he 
 has to go fishing with. I ask that information. 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 I may say in reply it requires a separate li- 
 cense to shoot game from fishing. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would like to ask a question, as a club 
 member, a member of a club who not only lias 
 a fishing lease, but also a hunting lease, whether 
 this universal gun license is to apply to a man 
 who is a member of a club, who leases or that 
 leases a hunting privilege from the Domiiiion. 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman: — This item of the program has 
 been put to a test, to give the views of the gen- 
 tlemen who are here on this iteni of univei*:^! 
 gun license. 
 
— 29 — 
 
 In answer to Mr. Fulton, from Boston, I would 
 say that the fishing license does not give right 
 to shoot. Hunting licenses are entirely separate 
 from fishing licenses. I do not mean to say 
 that the province oi Quebec or the government 
 of the province of Quebec intends to introduce 
 a universal gun license in this province ; but we 
 would like to have the views of the gentlemen 
 here present, as to the principle of imposing a 
 universal gun license. Now, another gentleman 
 has asked if a member of a club who has a right 
 to fi.sh on grounds leased by the club would also 
 have the right to hunt. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 If he is a member of a club, do I understand ? 
 
 Mr. Joncas :— 
 
 If he is a member of a club, he has no right 
 to shoot, on liis fishing license. 
 
 A SlIEAKER :— 
 
 Excuse me I spoke of a club that not only 
 had a iishing license, but a hunting lease as 
 well. 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 Yes, a member of a club who has a hunting 
 lease can shoot during the season any game that 
 comes within the range of his rifle ; there is no 
 mistake about that. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 What we call here a gun license ? 
 Mr Joncas : — 
 
 Yes. 
 
— 30 — 
 
 A Speaker: — 
 
 Mr. Fresident. — I did not embody tjie whole 
 in my first remarks. Supposinj]^, in the case of 
 an incorporatefl club, a club incorporated to 
 hold real estate and control fishing licenses, 
 whose constitution states that this club is formed 
 for the purpose of hunting and fishing, and its 
 constitution so reads, my point was a nice one 
 whether if the constitution of that club was 
 adopted, whether members of a club having 
 such a constitution, and property holders, had 
 the right to shoot as well as fish. I have raised 
 the question in our club, and I want to carry 
 home definite information. 
 
 Mr. Joncas ; — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — There is no doubt about it 
 that the lessee, the individual lessee or the club 
 lessee of a hunting and fishing territory has the 
 right to fish and hunt, during the fishing season 
 and during the hunting season, without paying 
 any license fee whatever. All "bona fide" members 
 of fishing and hunting clubs in this province, so 
 far have had, and they have still, the right to 
 fish and the right to hunt during the season, 
 whatever comes within the range of their rifles, 
 and whatever fish will take their flies ; there is 
 no mistake about that. 
 
 A Speaker: — 
 
 I think there is perhaps some misunder- 
 standing about that point. I have no property 
 or lease in the province of Quebec; but if I did. 
 
— 31 — 
 
 or if I belonged to a club .incorporated with 
 power to own property and take leases, I should 
 not suppose thnt under the terms of section 
 1415 that I would have any right to shoot, even 
 on my own propert}', unless in addition to 
 taking that lease, or buying that property, 1 also 
 got a license under that section. The section to 
 which I refer says : ' No person not domiciled 
 in the province of Quebec can hunt therein, un- 
 less he holds one of the following licenses." 
 They have a variety of licenses enumerated, one 
 respecting all birds and animals, one respecting 
 fur-bearing, and another in certain particular 
 localities in the Gulf of the River St. Lawrence. 
 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 No person not domici^eil in the province of 
 Quebec can liunt therein unless he lias one of 
 the licenses, and then the license jroos on. Well, 
 by our law the governor-in-council has the right 
 to pass an order-in-council ; the governor-in- 
 council has the right to ask orders-in-council to 
 apply the law. So far we have not applied this 
 luw which is rather stringent, radical. We have 
 not applied this law, to " bona fide " members of 
 clubs, for hunting and fishing purposes. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 You have not enforced the laws j^^et. 
 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 No. So far as members, are concerned, and 
 we have not enforced the law so far, and I do 
 
— 32 — 
 
 not think it has been the int<3ntioii of tho (Jov- 
 ernment to enforce it ho fur as a " bona fi<le " 
 member of tlie chib is concerned. 
 
 A Speakeii : — 
 
 I might say 1 hold a copy of tlio fTam(> laws 
 here, which reads this way : " No person sliall 
 be allowed to kill or pursue with intent to kill, 
 any moose or cariboo at any time of the year, 
 without first obtaining a lic(;nse &c." Now, it 
 would not make any diilerence ; it would not 
 alter the case at all, if you owned all New- 
 Brunswick, you would still be forced to take a 
 a license to shoot moose an«l cariboo. Of course 
 any other game you shoot without license. Of 
 course we have no order in council that would 
 admit of any person holding property, to shoot 
 without a license. 
 
 Mr. Jon'CAS : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman. — I think the law is well 
 taken here, under article 1410 ; " Tho fee may 
 be reduced, if the license is issued to a member 
 of any fish and game club wich is incorporated 
 under the law\s of the province, and has complied 
 with the provisions of such laws." 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 It seems to me that in the course of this dis- 
 cussion that gentlemen from outside of Canada 
 might infer that these laws that we are dis- 
 cussing are Canadian laws, and that they refer 
 to the pursuit of game and lishes, in Canada. 
 Now, we must bear in mind it is not so. I 
 
— 33 — 
 
 iniglit say tluit in New Brunswick tliere is no 
 license required whatever, to tish, A person 
 can ^o on crown land, or private water and 
 fish, provided they •(et the permission of the 
 proprietor. The Crown <loes not interfere with 
 trout iishing, except on crown lands ; any person 
 from any country can go and fish, without any 
 restriction whatever, the only restriction on 
 them is the restriction of the Federal Govern- 
 ment for the government of fisheries. As the 
 Governor-general has just said " There is no 
 license required for deer or black deer, only for 
 moose and cariboo ; so that the Quebec laws 
 are different from ours, so that in discussing a 
 law you cannot discuss it as th(^ law. of Canada, 
 they are all different. . 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 We all know that if a man takes otit a license ; 
 that simply gives him a gun license. We all 
 know that every farmer's son throughout the 
 whole country they all carry a gun ; they go to 
 plough and they shoot anything that comes 
 along, in season, out of season ; and if they were 
 obliged to buy a gun license, which is only a 
 matter of fifty cents a year, or a dollar, it would 
 bring in quite a laige revenue into the province, 
 and help to protect our game and it would be 
 a detriment also to the sujall boy, to shoot birds 
 oiit of season. Any one carrying a gun, or own- 
 ing a gun must have a gun license ; it would be 
 an immense source of revenue to have it fifty 
 cents, and I would be very much pleased indeed 
 
- 34 — 
 
 to have an expression on this t'onii from some 
 of you. Every one who is a sportsman will 
 never object to pay a dollar for his licuiiso, and 
 so when the warden comes up and a-ks " Wliere 
 is your Hcense ? " There it is if he has not got 
 it, confiscate the gun. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman. — I }iave taken steps to form 
 a North American tisli and game protective 
 association. I will simply say that there would 
 be a very small chance, provided that the Do- 
 minion of Canada, or any province should adopt 
 that move of compelling all hands to pay for 
 owning a gun, because one of the greatest prin- 
 ciples that we contend for in the States is the 
 right to bear arms ; every man has a right to 
 carry a gun on his premises and use it on occa- 
 sions. But of course it would stir up a tremen- 
 dous noise in the United States, and I can assure 
 you it would never obtain foothold in the Unit- 
 ed States. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I quite agree with the last speaker. There is 
 no where you can travel over iha Dominion of 
 Canada but where you can bf.e boys using a gun, 
 week in and week out, for nothing else but the 
 enjoyment of it ; but I might tell you it is a 
 destruction to our game, and I assure you that 
 this gun carrying without a license is the means 
 of many accident. You can see it everywliere 
 you go ; they have nothing else to do only to 
 
— 35 — 
 
 a)i()ot anytliirifj tlmt comes in thoir way, and I 
 can assure yun that <jfun license of twcnty-tivo 
 cents would hrinf]^ in a bi^ revenue to the Gov- 
 crnniont, and I can assure you it would do a lot 
 of ^ood for tlie jojanie laws, because I have seen 
 it n»yself all over Cana<la. A hoy takes a ^un 
 in the morning ; he sees no game to shoot ; ho 
 sho(.ts at little song hirds and everything that 
 comes in his sight. He is coming near his home, 
 perhaps he sees a living hody, and perhaps it is 
 a human being. You can easily see the result 
 of this. 
 
 A Sl'EAKEIi : — 
 
 I am very strongly opposed to a universal 
 gun license, I advocate that the government 
 should supply every boy w^ith a gun and a 
 license, and cartritlges. I have seen the use of 
 that in the Transvaal to-day, and I think they 
 should have a gun, and every body have a gun. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 It seems to me that the gun license in this 
 Resolution is not a license to allow a boy to use 
 a gun indiscriminately ; it is a resolution to allow 
 him to use it on game, and in all the countries 
 of Europe it is necessary that a man has a 
 license to use a ^un. Now, the question it seems 
 to me is can that be enforced ? It will not 
 interfere with any one learning to shoot straight ; 
 he will save an immense amount of game, and 
 save a great many birds that ought not to be 
 killed at all ; but what about that hornet's nest. 
 
PMi 
 
 iii 
 
 — 36 — 
 
 I think you can measure the hornet's nest, I 
 am afraid in this comparatively thinly settled 
 country. You could not enforce it, where the 
 country is thinly settled, j^ou could keep the 
 control of people who j^o out to shoot. It is 
 reasonable that a man shoukl buy a license for 
 his shooting. I do not think you could keep a 
 check over them in this country. That is all I 
 wish to say on that point. But as the discu.ssion 
 in the first place went into the question of 
 provincial licenses, I should like to say a word 
 abouti it. In the province of Ontario we have 
 a license. If any resident club wishes to shoot 
 .in Ontario, they pq,y a license fee of twenty-fi ve 
 dollars, and that admits him to all privileges in 
 .the province, during the season. People not 
 living in the province, if they wish to shoot 
 deer, pay a license of two dollars each and 
 supposing the season is to be opened for moose, 
 a man can take out a license by paying $5.00 
 to kill one bull moose. Now, we have an ad- 
 ditional condition in our law which residents of 
 the province of Quebec will be glad to hear. I. 
 think for some time there has been a standing 
 offer in our statute book that, we residents in 
 the province of Ontario, are permitted to shoot 
 and hunt in the province of Quebec, free of any 
 license fee, that the same privilege will be 
 extended to residents of the province of Quebec 
 in our province. There has been no move so 
 far I am aware, in this province, to take ad- 
 vantage of that offer. It is suggested to the 
 
— 37 
 
 1. 
 
 nding 
 its in 
 shoot 
 ■ any 
 11 be 
 uebec 
 ve so 
 ad- 
 o the 
 
 Gonmiissioners that ihis be recouiraended to the 
 legislature ; " That the governor in council be 
 empowered by order in council to place any 
 other residents in the Dominion of Canada to 
 place them in the same pvDsition with us as your 
 residents are placed with regard to license fees 
 under their law ; and I will be very glad to rhoar 
 from any of the residents of the provicH^^ of 
 Quebec as to their views on n^is sutyect jsk^d 
 what maybe accepted, and what they vWoold 
 ask or desire that the law should be in ;the 
 province of Ontario. 
 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 As you know, we were cognizant of .the .fact 
 that there was a disposition -in ihe tlegi^lati^re 
 of Ontario, seeing that as soon as the province 
 of Quebec would be ready to admit .the .people 
 of Ontario, to shoot, in our province, they would 
 admit our people there. You are also aware, 
 Mr. Chairman, that last year an Qrder-in-coy|n- 
 cil was passed, allowing the , people of Ontario 
 to come and hunt in our province, by paying a 
 fee of Si 5.00. It was not altogether free ; tjiat 
 while other non-residents were paying $25,00 
 that w^e would reduce the fee in favor of Qn^;«i- 
 rio to $15.00 Now, as far as I am aware, 
 Ontario has not reciprocated at all : our hunters 
 from Quebec have still to pay $25.00 licence 
 fee ; whilst the Ontario hunters, can come in 
 our province and hunt for $15.00. We have 
 not gone as far, perhaps, as the Ontario pepple 
 wanted us to go, as far as giving ihem free 
 
 L 
 
••^^rm^smi^mmmm' 
 
 38 — 
 
 ! 
 
 'ill 
 
 licenses to go and hunt in, our province ; but we 
 went this far, that we reduced the fee about 
 one-half, so that the Ontario people can come 
 and hunt in our province now, for Si 5.00, but 
 ' our hunters have still to pay $25.00 to go in 
 Ontario. My friend is, perhaps, aware of it. 
 
 A Speaker ; — 
 
 I was quite aware of it, but as our statute 
 stands at present we have no power to meet 
 ' you in that way. There is a clause in the sta- 
 tute, not to reciprocate as to amounts, but to 
 make it absolutely free. 
 A Speaker : — ' 
 
 I think the last speaker was not generous 
 enough to give the law. I think it should be 
 " if a man could not pay $25.00." 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would like to tell a little story. It is 
 related of John Border, one of our noted after- 
 dinner speakers- in the States, that once at a 
 banquet in New-York, when called upon by the 
 toastnia$ter to respond, the toastmaster made 
 this remark that John Border was a very 
 agreeable man, all that was necessary to do was 
 to put a dinner in the slot, then up would come 
 ' a speech. That may be the case with me just 
 at this particular time, as I understand it is my 
 topic, it is a policy to dig in. I have very 
 strong convictions about this particular matter, 
 I am frank to tell you at the beginning that 1 
 am dead opposed to it, I do not like it for a 
 
 1 
 
— 39 — 
 
 lit we 
 about 
 
 come 
 ), but 
 go in 
 
 it. 
 
 tatute 
 
 meet 
 
 le sta- 
 
 but to 
 
 inerous 
 uld be 
 
 It is 
 after - 
 at a 
 I by the 
 made 
 very 
 [lo was 
 d come 
 le just 
 IS my 
 very 
 latter, 
 Ithat 1 
 for a 
 
 
 cant, as the boys say. The great mistake that 
 we have made in our State, years gone by, is 
 that we have commenced our prosecution at the 
 wrong end of the line , our wardens have pro- 
 secuted little matters and let great big matters 
 of consequence go by. You establish a nominal 
 license fee for an ostensible purpose of protecting 
 your song birds, you have got to devote a great 
 deal of time and energy and preparation for 
 prosecuting that kind of cases, while the force, 
 the magnitude of it, that is the commercial value 
 that will bring in the people, will all be lost 
 sight of ; it brings the department into contempt. 
 When you want to prosecute these little matters, 
 and if you have to meet with a gun fee to be 
 collected, you are certainly going to injure the 
 cause very materially, in my judgment. Now, 
 it would be very unbecoming in me to come up 
 from the States and criticise any of your laws, 
 only so far as they apply generally do I wish 
 to speak. If I say anything remember you must 
 excuse me, because in the heat of the moment I 
 might transgress. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 In the State of Michigan, they have a license 
 law, similar to this. It had been agitated in 
 Maine, some years back, to see about a license 
 fee whether we would charge it, or not. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Do you refer to the license fee for residents 
 or non-residents ? 
 
— 40 — 
 
 Pre^iotts Speaker : — 
 
 Erfcher. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Now, one of the Commissioners from the State 
 of Michigan, and I am sorry he is not present 
 here to-day, could tell you after they had 
 established their license system, and it had been 
 in operation, I asked them how they liked it. I 
 was anxious to get the information with refer- 
 ence to arguing it in our own state. He said it 
 just suited their conditions exactly. I asked for 
 an explanation, what he meant by that ; and 
 his explanation was that the quantity of game 
 thtft we have in the State of Michigan is going 
 to be somewhat limited, in fact it is scarce, we 
 want to protect that game. Last year we had 
 so many, a number of thousand visitors, that 
 came there to hunt. This year, under the $25.00 
 license system, they sold, if I recollect, 120 
 licenses for the whole year ; in other words, it 
 di-ove out just so many people that came there 
 to spend their money. Now, suppose I could 
 say this to you in Canada, that while that 
 license system brings you a certain revenue, you 
 get this at the expense of driving out so many 
 people that come here to fish and hunt. It may 
 bi?hefit you directly, but it injures us more than 
 it helps. I think in the State of Maine, if we 
 put a license fee on sportsmen, that instead 
 of having an income of from $2,000,000 to 
 3,000,000, I think we could safely say that 
 
— 41 — 
 
 tliat 
 ?.. you 
 many 
 
 may 
 
 than 
 if we 
 stead 
 00 to 
 
 that 
 
 it would be reduced to one-half. I think if you 
 remove that license system, in Canada, that you 
 will double your principle, in 3 years. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 This gives me an opportunity of roferring to 
 an item which I saw in the Gazette. It is stated 
 there that in the annual report of the New York 
 Fish and Game Commissioners a recommenda- 
 tion is made that " Whereas the people of Onta- 
 rio charge residents from the United States a 
 fishing license, that they should retaliate." There 
 is a misapprehension, on the part of that item. 
 Our policy is that where, excepting in the river 
 St. Lawrence, that where Americans go over 
 into our waters, to fish for a day, a large party 
 of them with their boats and their steamers, and 
 return at night, our overseer should charge them 
 a license fee ; but where Americans come to our 
 country, stop at our hotels, engage our men, and 
 hire our boats, we do not impose a license fee 
 upon them. We are glad to see them. There 
 seems to be a feeling that if a man comes in and 
 stops at our hotels, he has to put up a $5.00 li- 
 cense fee. That does not obtain with regard to 
 any of our small lakes ; it is only up on the 
 Nepigon River ; we charge Americans $5.00 
 and Canadians S5.00. Those are world-famous 
 waters. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 What about game ? 
 
— 42 — 
 
 PiiEviou.s Speaker: — 
 
 I will liave to leave game to some of the 
 Coniniissionors, to answer. The department of 
 game and fisheries arc under two different heads ; 
 wfiile there is a commission, the commission was 
 appointed some years ago, and designated the 
 game and fish commission. Game, as it applies 
 to the fish department is practically a misnomer. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 In the quiet remarks of the last speaker, and 
 suppl'^racr'nl to the gentleman from Maine, I 
 wish :o sav as a club member, a member of a 
 Cani^Hnn fishing club that I have a great many 
 friendo Wj\^ hav^e stayed away from the Cana- 
 dian waters during the past two years, because 
 of the license of SIO.OO to fish. To give more 
 correctly the report of the fish commissioners 
 of the State of New York, I will read a re- 
 solution that is to be presented to the legislature 
 at its present session : " Inasmuch as the 
 Dominion of Canada imposes a tax for hunting 
 and fishing, excepting on the St-Lawrence River, 
 within the boundaries of the St-Lawrence 
 River, part ; Most of the citizens in this state,'' 
 that is New York State. " We would recommend 
 that a similar tax be imposed upon the citizens 
 of the Dominion of Canada." Now, as we club 
 men understand, if we wish to fish, we must 
 either pay this $10.00 license fee, or stay away. 
 The result is that a great many gentlemen who 
 would be glad to be our guests from the States 
 
— 43 — 
 
 stay away. In regard to the license for shooting, 
 as I understand it, the club of which 1 am a 
 member have recently taken out an extra lease 
 for hunting privileges, that they thereby may 
 do away with the license for hunting purposes. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 What province ? 
 
 A Previous Speaker : — 
 
 The province of Quebec. 
 
 Now, 1 am not in favor of this resolution of 
 the commissioners of the State of New- York. 
 I consider it is an unfair thing, and that helps 
 me to say with a better grace that I consider 
 that the club man and his friends are entitled 
 to go into the province of Quebec. If you please 
 the club man, and his guest as his guest, without 
 paying any extra license fee. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President, with reference to my associate 
 commissioner, I will say this : While he has ad- 
 vocated this principle in years gone by, and is 
 still a weak convert ; the word " weak " I think 
 expresses his convictions to-day quite forcibly ; 
 he does not really know what kind of ground 
 he is standing on. Now, then I will tell you 
 why he has favored this system, why the sec- 
 retary of the Association, Mr. Farrington, favors 
 it. We got what is considered by those from 
 other states an appropriation of $2.5,000.00, 
 which seems to the tax -payer like a large sum ; 
 it seems like wasting money ; we have had to 
 
use all ways possible, personally and by the 
 press, to convince tlsom of the advisability 
 and of the economy of it, if I may be allowed 
 the expression. In making that appropriation 
 there has been a fear in some of the minds of 
 our people that it wouhl not be very long before 
 the State of Maine would decrease the amount 
 of her appropriation with less than S25,000.00. 
 It would be impossible to do satisfactory work 
 at least ; in fact we cannot do to-day what we 
 would like to do ; but we are obliged to do with 
 whatever the legislature gives us. Now, I claim 
 this from my personal experience, that the man 
 who goes hunting, and linds that a moose costs 
 him $500:00, cold cruel dollars, on an average, in 
 expenses in the way of hotel bills, guile bills 
 and traveling bills, and 3 or 4 years, experience 
 in getting that moose, that the average cost of 
 getting a moose is S500.00 ; now, then, on top of 
 that, after having that moose cost him f 500.00, 
 %o. impose a little fee of $15 or $25, you simply 
 pull his leg for so. much ; that is the. thing thjvt 
 cuts his feelings, and that $25 hurts his feelings 
 and keeps him out. I know it myself ; 1 have 
 been down in the province of New Brunsvyick, 
 fishing^ until they imposed a liqense fee ; and 
 then I stopped. I do not accnse the govern- 
 roent of it. Now, M»en, under the pld Knglj^h 
 law, fishing and hunting was always free, pro- 
 yjded you have crossed no man's corn or meadow 
 We have brought this down* in the State of 
 J!|iaine, that tishingand hunting are free to a)l 
 
— 45 — 
 
 y the 
 bility 
 lowed 
 iation 
 ids of 
 before 
 mount 
 )6Q.00. 
 ' work 
 tiat we 
 o with 
 [ claim 
 ic man 
 ?e costs 
 rage, in 
 le bills 
 lerience 
 coat of 
 top of 
 500.00. 
 
 simply 
 ig thjvt 
 
 [eclings 
 
 1 have 
 
 s\yick, 
 
 ; and 
 
 •overn- 
 
 ^ngli^h 
 
 e, pro- 
 
 eadow. 
 
 »ate of 
 
 to ajil 
 
 the world ; we try to make it of such a whole- 
 souled nature that the people like to come there ; 
 as long as we do not burden them with oppres- 
 sive laws, they will come there ; we never place 
 an obstacle in their way that we can do without. 
 Youfoiro"w that policy, and you will get better 
 results, a mis;^hty sight easier than you can with 
 atiythitig else. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Dciring the last year or two, I have coine per- 
 sonally in contact with more of the American" 
 sportsmen, probably, tlian any man in Canada. 
 Abd I rise now, not only to protest any univer- 
 sal gun license, but against any license. I put 
 the figure at Si, 000. 00 a moose. One very 
 wealthy sportsman in Boston says " Twenty-iive 
 years I ha\'e be6n in the woods, and I never 
 stew a tooose. The S25.00 license does not add 
 to the reVentiC;, and I think we would be better 
 without any license at all. 
 
 Mil. Cormier : — 
 
 As representing the Quebec government and 
 selling licenses, I say that licenses are right. 
 The American, the sportsman, non-residents do 
 not begrudge to pay you $50 00 for a license ; 
 but you want to assure them of the game, protect 
 the game ; never mind the license. I have sold 
 nilore licenses myself in the county of Pontiac 
 than th^ whole province put together, and they 
 siiy : " If you want to sell licenses, shew us a 
 moose. " 
 
— 46 — 
 
 NUMBER SIX, LICENSED GUIDE SYSTEM 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 The convention has not expressed itself in 
 any way, outside of the gentleman from the 
 State of Maine. This item is very important, 
 and I would like to have some opinion, one way 
 or the other, from the convention. It will not 
 take long, I hope ; it will not take long, but 
 still it is a pity to pass it by without some fur- 
 ther expression of the Convention. I have 
 only heard one individual, and perhaps some 
 one would put it before the meeting, and ask 
 some opinion on the matter. 
 
 A Speaker : — " 
 
 Mr. Chairman. — To put it before the meet- 
 ing I would suggest that this convention 
 approve of the guide system as adopted in the 
 State of Maine ; and I would like to see some 
 expression of that kind carried before the con- 
 vention. It would certainly strengthen the 
 hands of the various states and the various pro- 
 vinces, when they get such an expression from 
 a convention like this. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 With regard to that motion, I would like to 
 say this: We are all very much interested with 
 the description of the way in which that 
 licensed guide system worked in the State of 
 Maine ; and a system working as that worked 
 
w 
 
 tneet- 
 
 ution 
 
 the 
 
 some 
 
 con- 
 
 the 
 
 — 47 — 
 
 must be of the greatest possible assistance to 
 the hands of the officials, in protecting game. 
 But I should not ''.ke a motion of that kind to 
 be carried, as the opinion of this convention, 
 without some little qualification. I will not 
 say more than that. Last year, in the province 
 of Ontario we very carefully considered that 
 very question ; it was brought before the board 
 of commissioners ; but wc were of opinion that 
 while the system itself was a very good one, it 
 was very doubtful ; and I still think it very 
 doubtful whether it is applica-)le to all states, 
 all provinces and under all circumstances. I 
 ask the gentleman from the State of Maine how 
 he defined the guide ; and he defined it, I think, 
 very fairly, and in the only way in which I 
 think he could define it, that is to say a man, if 
 I understood him right, engaged in the occupa- 
 tion of guide, making it his business to do it. 
 Now that may work very well in the State of 
 Maine. I do not think it would work very 
 well in the province of Ontario. I leave it to 
 anyone in the province of Quebec to say whe- 
 ther it would work there, or not. In the pro- 
 vince of Ontario we have large districts of 
 country, speaking generally, where there is 
 some shooting, where there is very good fishing, 
 interspersed with small lakes, in fairly well 
 settled parts of the country. Now, these go 
 by gradations into the wild land.s. You cannot 
 say where the settlement begins or ends. Now, 
 I do not know how you could enforce such a 
 
 I 
 
— in- 
 
 law. Tliere is a lake surrounded by partly 
 horticultural lands and farinin<j lands, and there 
 are a certain number of men of different trades, 
 blacksmiths, carpenters ; there are farm labo- 
 rers, and men having all kinds of businesses, 
 but with a sneaking disinclination to work. 
 There are a good many of thom, and if there is 
 a party of men coming along in the summer and 
 want to go fishing, those men are always ready 
 to drop what they have on hand for a week, a 
 day oi: a fortnight. Well, suppose some men 
 -in the neighborhood will get the advantage by 
 taking out a license and making himself a 
 guide, he immediately wants a monopoly of 
 that business ; naturally he should l^ave it. 
 Where are you going to draw the line ? Some 
 one comes along, and says " You got no license ; 
 You cannot act as guide. " And the man says ; 
 "i am not acting as a guide; you cannot con- 
 vict him ; you cannot enforce it. Now, I will 
 tell you what we did in Ontario. The commis- 
 sioners, after comparing the matter from all 
 points of view, and largely infl'ienced by thpse 
 considerations recommended to the legislature 
 and the legislature adopted their view last 
 year, — a set of sections which were prqpared to 
 .parry this purpose into effect. We said that 
 anyman recommending a certain way he had 
 to get a recommendation from a Justice of the 
 Peace and one from the game wardens might 
 obtain ; we call it a license certifying that he 
 was a properly qualified man for the particular 
 

 iirtly 
 bhore 
 w.lca, 
 labo- 
 
 C8SCS, 
 
 work. 
 
 3re is 
 
 31* and 
 
 ready 
 
 3ek, a 
 
 3 men 
 
 go by 
 
 self a 
 
 loly of 
 
 live it. 
 Some 
 
 icense ; 
 says ; 
 t con- 
 I will 
 
 ommis- 
 om all 
 those 
 slature 
 w last 
 lared to 
 id that 
 he had 
 of the 
 might 
 hat he 
 Irticular 
 
 — 49 — 
 
 business stated in the license, fisliini;, sjiootinfr 
 duck or doer, as tlie case may be, in such a dis- 
 trict, or in the whole of the province, according 
 to the (|ualiHcations he pr(\>ented, and that by 
 paying a nominal foe, ho might take out a 
 license under the seal of the chief warden, 
 giving him that qualification. We have had 
 this object in vi*nv, which we hope yet to carry 
 into effect, that is to say that we should adver- 
 tise the merits of that .system throughout the 
 province, that we should endeavor to impress 
 upon men wlio usuall}'^ did anything in the way 
 of guiding for any purpose, hunting or fishing, 
 that it was to their advantage to do this. Thu 
 people woulfl give thent the preference, they 
 would get larger wages, and it is our intention 
 ^o give an appropriation for the purpose of 
 advertising as largely as possible tlie men who 
 have thos"6 licenses, to print lists of them with 
 their addresses, the country with which they 
 arc familiar, in some particular American papers 
 and in the local papers where they live ; and 
 we have in view in the future, which I may 
 say under the circumstances existing in our 
 province, that if this law is taken general 
 advantage of, if we find that wo can get some 
 hundreds of men, 500, or even 1000 guides, and 
 if there is a vsufficient number to take out guides 
 in all parts of the province, that we can work 
 up a sufficient deinand for it, that then we may 
 recommend to the legislature that the system- 
 be made compulsory ; but I do not believe we 
 
50 — 
 
 can enforce the law in Ontario. I think in 
 attempting to do so, and I think in the manner 
 in which we have defined it to you very briefly, 
 would cause more variety than indicated by the 
 system from the State of Maine, and in other 
 words, would be a failure. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President. — It seems to me that all prac- 
 tical sportsmen will agree that the license sys- 
 tem for guides is desirable, and it has been 
 found to work well in the State of Maine ; it 
 works well in the province of New Brunswick, 
 where the fee is double that of the State of 
 Maine. In my experience with guides I hear 
 no objection to it, and while it may be desirous 
 now I think it would be well for ttiis conven- 
 tion to strengthen the hands of those in Ontario 
 or elsewhere by a resolution which may not go 
 too far, and I would advocate that such license 
 having been found to work advantageously in 
 the State of Maine, and in the province of New 
 Brunswick, perhaps that is as far as we might 
 go, and it would have a moral effect upon tho.se, 
 and with those v*'hom it is desirable to propa- 
 gate this idea amongst. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I will just perhaps cut this talk short on this 
 h«ad. I am just suggesting it. That this meet- 
 ing approves of the motion of the state licensed 
 guide system and recommends the general adop- 
 tion of it, or some modification of same whicih 
 
51 — 
 
 shall be suited to the wants of each state or 
 province. We do nol* commit ourselves and yet 
 we at tlic same time approve of the general 
 purpose. It will probably meet the views, and 
 will probably close the argument. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I think, Mr. President, the work of guides is 
 simply manual labor, and when a man wants to 
 put a tax on labor, it is pretty near time to 
 iquit. We get out in the woods, and we gdt 
 natives there and they do not know enough to 
 take out a license, and they have got to be 
 licensed people. We are putting a tax upon 
 manual labor ; and x think it is illegal. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 May I suggest. — we have had considerable 
 success in the Adironaacks, and in New- York 
 State ; we have had no tax, no registry law fbr 
 guides ; but we do have a good many that cover 
 the Adirondack region ; they have their con- 
 ventions, and the guides get together, and in 
 that way they become known to the sportsmen, 
 so that when we want a guide we can get one. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Allow me to emphasise that last remark. We 
 made all the guides honorary members of our 
 association, without fee. They have now their 
 guides' Association, und they are all better 
 guides ; they are all helping to carry out the 
 laws, and as for putting a tax on them, I think 
 you could not, in our case. 
 
»-: , i 
 
 — 52 — 
 
 No. 7. 
 
 ABSOLUTE PROTECTION AT ALL SEA- 
 SONS OF SONG BIRDS AND INSEC- 
 TIVOROUS BIRDS, BENEFICIAL 
 TO AGRICULTURE. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — In the province of Quebec 
 these birds are protected, as you k jw, only 
 part of the year ; the rest of the year we are able 
 to shoot them. Now, I would like to give you 
 this resolution ; " Resolved, that this Association 
 is in favor of the absolute protection, at all 
 seasons, of song birds and in.sectivorous birds 
 beneficial to agriculture, and recommend legis- 
 hition to that end in any province or state where 
 it does not exist." 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — The object of that resolution 
 is to protect, irrespective of the manner of 
 death ; it makes no difference whether you kill 
 them with a gun or anything else ; when you 
 kill them they are dead. Now, if it is illegal 
 to snare at one time of the year, I want to 
 make it illegal to snare at any other time of the 
 year. We are not passing an absolute law ; we 
 are passing a recommendation. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 There is a good deal of ignoranci on the part 
 of the public with reference to these birds, in 
 fact we protect owls and certain specimens of 
 
— 53 
 
 .L SEA- 
 
 NSEC- 
 
 lAL 
 
 if Quebec 
 jw, only 
 '^e are able 
 give you 
 ssociation 
 on, at all 
 I'ous birds 
 end legis- 
 late where 
 
 resolution 
 
 lanner of 
 
 you kill 
 
 vhen you 
 
 is illegal 
 
 want to 
 
 me of the 
 
 law ; we 
 
 the part 
 
 birds, in 
 
 :imcns of 
 
 hawks. The United States com amission did the 
 same thing. There has been a very able article 
 in a very able book, written on the benefit of 
 protecting hawks and owls viz : that hawks are 
 constantly feeding on mice during the day, and 
 their work is taken up by the owls, after dark, 
 keeping it up all night. And it is asserted by 
 many scientific men that if it were not for the 
 existence of these birds agriculturists might 
 shut up shop ; and the first thing a man or a 
 boy does, if he has a little screech-owl, which is 
 one of the birds that gets in his father's barn, 
 he will stny in there a whole day, to kill that ; 
 and it is worth a dozen cats in any barn, and 
 that is a case we often hear of, with every owl 
 of the whole species, except, perhaps, the great 
 horned owl ; and as their depredations are 
 counterbalanced by their good results, the fact 
 is that they should be protected at all seasons, 
 and all insectivorous birds ; it is a scandalous 
 outrage and shame. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 As far as I have read and I think in the 
 statutes of every province in the Dominion, and 
 I fancy from the State of Maine, these birds 
 are all protected from being killed, shot or 
 otherwise killed. While I am on my feet, I 
 might mention something that came to my 
 notice, when I was appointed lish commissioner. 
 I found a great many persons taking shell duck. 
 If you examine their stomachs, you will find 
 
 ■li: ' . ' -V 
 
li 
 
 IH! 
 
 — 54 — 
 
 their stomachs full of trout salmon ; but I think 
 that this resolution should pass, because it is 
 merely carrying out, or rather reinforcing the 
 laws which are in existence in every state and 
 in every province. 
 
 The Chairman : — Moved by Mr. Ussher that 
 this Association are in favor of the absolute 
 protection at all seasons, of song birds and in- 
 sectivorous birds, beneficial to agriculture, and 
 recommend legislation to that end in any 
 province or state where it does not exist. 
 
 Carried. 
 
 i i 
 
 No. 8. 
 
 LIMIT THE BAG OF GAME. 
 
 The Chairman: — Before this is gone into, 
 when speaking of the limit of the bag of game, 
 I might say that I would like to limit the bag 
 of game and also the quantity of fish. Eight 
 and 10 go together. Carried. 
 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — In the province of Quebec 
 and in the province of Ontario as well, the 
 legislative power is vested in Ottawa ; we have 
 no right whatever to interfere, as far as the 
 size of fish is concerned ; but I think it would 
 be a good thing to write to Ottawa, to try to 
 prevent the catching and the selling of small 
 fish. Of course our province has no right to 
 interfere ; then, the power of legislating in this 
 
— .55 — 
 
 ihink 
 
 ifc is 
 I the 
 \ and 
 
 r that 
 solute 
 nd in- 
 e, and 
 Q any 
 
 le into, 
 ' game, 
 he bag 
 Eight 
 
 Quebec 
 ell, the 
 re have 
 as the 
 would 
 try to 
 )f small 
 ight to 
 in this 
 
 matter is vested in the government at Ottawa; 
 but it would bo a good tiling, I think, to re- 
 commend Ottawa to do it. 
 
 A SrEAKER : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman ; — I am aurpriHod at the re- 
 marks of my confrere from Quebec. We, in 
 Ontario, do not interpret the judgment of Her 
 Majesty's Privy Council in such a narrow sense. 
 It is an exclusive function of the Dominion 
 Government to stipulate the implements of 
 capture, and regulate the close season. They 
 also say that the Legislature legislate as regards 
 fisheries, in so far as it refers to property. We 
 have in that regulation, limited the catch of 
 trout, pickerely bass and several other fishes. 
 I take the eminent Q. C.'s opinion with regard 
 to this matter. You might ask me if I am to 
 fish in your waters. I say, yes, you may fish 
 for my property ; but you cannot fish, and you 
 cannot take more than twelve bass in a day. If 
 you want to restrict yourself to taking twelve 
 bass in a da5% you can go on and fish ; that is the 
 point of difference we have made. I found 
 matters in a most unfortunate shape. I am 
 not criticising the administration of the Federal 
 Government in their administration of the fish- 
 eries ; but in looking over their laws, I found 
 the appalling fact that they had not a single 
 restriction regarding the catch of bass. There 
 is nothing to prevent you or any of the rest of 
 us going out and catching one hundred bass in 
 a day, if we want to. This same council says 
 
 i 
 
 m. 
 
Ijli I 
 
 
 —.56 — 
 
 that we have the power to enact in our statute 
 that you shall not take more than a certain 
 number of fish per day. That is a question, I 
 suppose for a large amount of discussion bet- 
 ween the Dominion and the provinces ; but 
 that is the position that we take. 
 
 Mr. Joncas. — Lawyers will be lawyers all the 
 time, and lawyers' opinion will differ. We have 
 also consulted the law officers of the Crown, and 
 their opinion was that we have no right what- 
 ever to interfere in what was the legislative 
 power at Ottawa ; that the only right we had 
 was to give licenses. A man comes to me, comes 
 to the department, and wants to fish. I say : 
 " Yes, all right, we will give you a license to fish." 
 But after that man has obtained his license from 
 the Government of Quebec, the Government of 
 Ottawa can interfere and say : " All right, you 
 will fish, but you will not take the fish under 
 certain conditions." That is the opinion of our 
 law officers, but the law oflficers in Ontario may 
 differ from those in Quebec. The interpretation 
 of the meanings is open to discussion. It is the 
 opinion that our law officers gave. That is 
 the reason, I said a while ago, that this Conven- 
 tion can only recommend to Ottawa to do this 
 or that other thing, to do away with the catch 
 small fish, as my friends, there, who spoke a 
 while ago, said, and that this province had no 
 right to interfere. I am not giving you my own 
 opinion. I am giving you the opinions of the 
 laws of Quebec. 
 
57 
 
 itute 
 rtain 
 on, I 
 
 bot- 
 but 
 
 11 the 
 
 i have 
 
 n, and 
 
 what- 
 
 jlative 
 
 e had 
 
 coines 
 
 I say: 
 
 fish." 
 
 efrom 
 ent of 
 ,you 
 under 
 of our 
 
 to may 
 
 etation 
 is the 
 hat is 
 onven- 
 o this 
 catch 
 Doke a 
 lad no 
 ly own 
 of the 
 
 A SrEAKER : — 
 
 Just one word more ; whatever the difference 
 of opinion may be as to the power to limit the 
 number of fish, without any regard to the li- 
 cense, that we can in that license stipulate that 
 you cannot catch bass or trout, under two pounds 
 in weight ; you may make conditions over that 
 license ; you can say anything you like with 
 regards to the protection of your fish. I have 
 found when I took over this department, that 
 the fishermen have been slaughtering the fish, 
 before they came to the age of reproduction and 
 I tkought that if we were going to protect the 
 fishes, we must take steps with regard to the 
 catching of the mature fish. It has occurred to 
 me, at first, that the length would be very much 
 better than the weight ; but after having a speci- 
 men of the fish sent from our different waters, 
 I found there was a variation of fish, of different 
 sizes, and that the length would not be the 
 proper estimate : therefore I took the weight. 
 
 Moved by Mil. Parish, Seconded by Mr. 
 OsLER : " That it is the opinion of this Con- 
 vention that the proper authorities should enact 
 laws limiting bags of game and the size and 
 number of fish killed." 
 
 A Speaker :— 
 
 I wish to second that Resolution, and in doing 
 so, I want to touch on one point which has been 
 brought out very strongly, viz : the limiting of 
 the size of fish, until they have attained an age 
 
 m 
 
— 58 
 
 ! 
 
 when they can reproduce. That is the main 
 argument for limiting the size of fish. It is a 
 disagreeable law to enforce. When you tell a 
 a man that he cannot catch a hrook trout, until 
 it is six inches, and a landlocked salmon until it 
 is twelve inches ; but in the States, certainly in 
 Vermont, fish have be6n so scarce that we must 
 protect them, and in many streams they keep 
 the brook trout, for instance lish right down to 
 the limit of six inches. Now, some States have a 
 four and a five inch law. Now, in connection with 
 this question of size, I wish simply in endorsing 
 that resolution, to emphasise the fact that X do 
 not consider, for example a five inch law on trout 
 or a four inch law on trout, and the same law 
 is applicable to your white fish, — I do not 
 consider we have ap argument for that law, be- 
 cause in killing at five inches, you have killed it 
 before it can reproduce ; so that in limiting the 
 size of the fish the main argument is that we 
 want to give these little fishes a chance to re- 
 produce and deposit some of their own seed be- 
 fore they are taken. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 We feel kind of corky, according to where we 
 live, about the rules and regulations we adopt. 
 I think we have a remedy in our State for this. 
 It is this ; All tributaries of lakes are the nur- 
 series of these lakes, and as nurseries should be 
 protected, we absolutely and totally at any time 
 prohibit catching fish of any size. We allow 
 
 M 
 
 II' 
 
 1 li 
 
 mn 
 
 i^i; 
 
59 — 
 
 mam 
 .i is a 
 tell a 
 until 
 util it 
 Qly in 
 » must 
 ' keep 
 >wn to 
 tiave a 
 nwith 
 lorsing 
 it I do 
 n trout 
 Qe law 
 tlo not 
 w, be- 
 lled it 
 mg the 
 lat we 
 to re- 
 sed be- 
 
 
 y 
 
 lere we 
 adopt. 
 
 or this. 
 
 he nur- 
 uld be 
 
 iiy time 
 
 e allow 
 
 fishing in all streams that are tributaries to 
 rivers or the sea ; but if they are tributaries to 
 lakes, we prohibit it. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 In speaking to my motion, I would like to say : 
 In Ontario I do not know whether it is legal, 
 or not — but we have enforced it. Our oarsmen 
 have even gone so far now that they have all a 
 copy of the rules with them ; they leave it 
 hanging on the sides of their boats ; and if they 
 catch a bass, that is not ten inches, it is returned 
 to the water. And while I am on my feet, I 
 might speak about it : it is educating your 
 guides to return fish to the water, which thoy 
 do not care to eat. In our anglers' association, 
 every new guest that arrives we wait on him 
 and explain the matter to him, and we have 
 thousands and thousands of black bass returned 
 to the water. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would move that articles nine and eleven.be 
 taken together, viz. Fish Culture, and (11) 
 Distribution of fish from government hatche- 
 ries. 
 A Speaker :~ 
 
 Mr Chairnmn : — I will set the ball rolling 
 by .«aying just a few words on this subject of 
 fish culture and of the distribution of fish. Per- 
 sonally, I believe in fish culture. It has been 
 my experience in the Vermont Legislature that 
 it is very difficult to get the average legislator 
 
 
— 60 — 
 
 !if 
 
 to believe in fish culture. The rail roiul companies 
 believe in it, and transport our fish free ; but 
 the average man does not believe in it : he wants 
 nature to take its course ; and I was simply 
 going to saj^ something of the method we have 
 adopted, to explain that method we have 
 adopted for illustrating fish culture, educating 
 people on that line and the value of it. For 
 instance, I was asked by one of my friends, and 
 he was an educated man, a dentist, who had a 
 good education, the questions which are fre- 
 quently asked : — " How are the little fishes ? " 
 I answered, " They are doing first rate, I have 
 a dozen bantam hens sitting on trout eggs." And 
 the next day he asked me, " Was it a fact that 
 you set hens on your trout eggs ? " What we did 
 there, and what we are doing now is this. I have 
 a stereopticon, and I have one hundred slides, to 
 illustrate fish culture. I have taken photographs 
 of men stripping fish, showing how they strip 
 the eggs from the female. We illustrate by 
 photographs thrown on the canvas, pictures of 
 the eggs laid down in the troughs by the thou- 
 sand on the trays. We have photographs of 
 the fry wlien they are first hatched in the 
 troughs, after they have dropped through the 
 trays. We have another photograph showing 
 the little fishes when they have begun to feed ; 
 we then can throw on the screen pictures of 
 some aquatic life, which will feed on these little 
 eggs and on the little fry. This work of illus- 
 tration can be carried on by photography and 
 
— Gl — 
 
 the use of the atereopticon in all branches of 
 tish culture. You can illustrate it so that a 
 common man, an uneducated man, or a profes- 
 sional man will see through it, and you can 
 make him believe it, I find that you can hold 
 your audiences with these pictures nnd a little 
 word of explanation, and you will find that the 
 people who are there, if any of them happen to 
 get to the Legislature, they will support you. 
 You have got to get the masses to believe in it, 
 in order to vote you money to carry it along. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would move that each of the provincial 
 governments or every government represented 
 here, should be memorialised to provide lime 
 lights and a set of slides, if that could be done, 
 to educate our people in that direction. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President : — Perhaps it is not becoming 
 in me to say just what I propose to do now ; 
 but it so chances that one member of the Board 
 of Commissioners of our State, and I think he is 
 entitled to the dignity of being one of the most 
 noted men in the United States. At least he is 
 the man who has been longest engaged in fish 
 culture of any man in America. I refer to Mr. 
 Stanley. He is engaged in fish culture, away 
 back, when nobody knew anything about it ; 
 and I think he would be able to entertain you 
 a little bit with his experience. 
 
— 62 — 
 
 iP\^ 
 
 < I 
 
 Mr. Stanley : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman :- I will try to tell yoii wlvat 
 I know al)Out our corporation in Maine. I was 
 placed in the Corporation, in 1872. At that 
 time, there were only 4 places, in Maine where 
 was salmon. I think in 1872, Mr. Green bought 
 20,000 sea salmon eggs. He paid at the rate of 
 eighty cents per thousand, in gold, and he 
 turned them over to me, and I hatched them. 
 I think the next year after, we began to get 
 salmon eggs ; we hatched those in the same 
 way; and it ran on until about 15 years ago ; 
 the salmon and trout that were hatched, we 
 turned them all into the water when they first 
 began to feed. Then we began to experiment. 
 We kept learning more and more. At this time 
 we turned them in from six months' old ; and 
 this past year, from 100,000 of these little fishes 
 we have turned in over 75 of these from 3 to 6 
 inches long. To-day there are 150 lakes in 
 Maine, that contain landlocked salmon, and the 
 pjace where we take the most of our eggs to- 
 day^ 10 year!3 ago there were not any salmon 
 in t^e lake. I took with my net, at one sweep, 
 150 salmon that weighed from 4 to 12 lbs. and 
 upwards, landlocked salmon. It takes all the 
 day to take the eggs from them. At B" 
 and Moosehead there were no salmon is 
 
 better than this at Sebago ; Moosehead i., just 
 beginning to come forward, and there are 
 h,iMidreds of small lakes where we put them. 
 In addition to that, in Randall, in Moosehead, 
 
63 — 
 
 u what 
 I was 
 Vt that 
 3 wliere 
 bought 
 rate of 
 and he 
 [1 them, 
 a to get 
 le same 
 vrs ago ; 
 ;he<], we 
 hoy first 
 eriment. 
 this time 
 )l(i ; and 
 ble fiyhes 
 m 3 to 6 
 akes in 
 and the 
 egg3 to- 
 salmon 
 
 sweep, 
 bs. and 
 
 all the 
 
 n . is 
 
 1 1. j'lSt 
 lere arc 
 it them, 
 (osehead, 
 
 when the sahnon first appeared there with other 
 poor looking fish, they were not plump hand- 
 some fish. In Sebago, they are as handsome as 
 any you get in the province. 'They rise to the 
 fiy. They afterwards inproved in appearance. 
 
 Sebago was full of smelts. We have made 
 it an object to stop of! mooseheads and smelts. 
 Smelts have appeared in Randall. We did 
 it by putting in a large quantity of the eggs 
 which we could procure in the fall. Since the 
 smelts have appeared, these salmons are an 
 entirely different fish ; they are plump an<l hond- 
 some, light-colored and very much larger, and 
 they have not ouly improved the salmon, but 
 they have improved the trout ; they have in- 
 creased iu size ; they are a much handsomer fish. 
 1 consider there is no trouble in keeping our 
 lakes stocked with trout and salmon if you will 
 feed your young fry in this way ; take care of 
 them, put them in carefully ; they are not all 
 put up in any one place ; you can scatter them 
 all around the lakes. And another thing, all of 
 these lakes we have stocked with trout and 
 .salmon we have shut up the brooks entirely. 
 Kvor since that has been done, the salmon and 
 trout have increased, and I am sati.sfied the fish- 
 in' to-day is better than it was in 1872, and it 
 was due to this commission. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Do those salmons take the fly now ? just as 
 they did V)efore ? 
 
 il 
 
— 64 
 
 Mr. Stanley : — 
 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 A Speaker : — , 
 
 Were these put into lakes where there were 
 never before ? 
 
 Mr. Stanley : — 
 
 Yes, there are only 4 lakes in Maine that 
 15 years ago had that lake salmon. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 What size did you have them, before you put 
 them out ? 
 
 Mr. Stanley : — 
 
 They are from 3 to 6 inches long. Sometir ;es 
 we keep them over winter, we have some this 
 year that we are wintering over in troughs ; 
 those next year will be 8 inches long. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Is there much pike in th-. lake ? 
 
 Mr. Stanley : — 
 
 I do D'^i think that they interfere with the 
 salmon much. L o we have no pike. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Have you any pickerel ? 
 
 Mr. Stanley ; — 
 
 Yes, there is one other lake in Maine. We 
 have a lake about 12 miles from me, about 5 
 
 
— 65 — 
 
 re were 
 
 ne 
 
 that 
 
 'ith the 
 
 you put 
 
 >metiri les 
 
 3iiie this 
 
 rouf^hs ; 
 
 le. We 
 bout 5 
 
 miles long and 2 miles wide, thefc is lots of 
 salmon there. These trouts run up into the 
 mountains for 8 or 10 miles, before tluiy coiue 
 down ; they stay up there a long time. 
 
 A Speakeii : — 
 
 Do these lakes go down to the sea ? 
 
 Mr. Stanley : — 
 
 No. 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Stanley, when you speak of stopping the 
 stream, do you stop the passage, or do you pro- 
 hibit fishing in the stream ? 
 
 Mr. Stanley : — 
 
 We prevent fishing in every streams but some 
 of these lakes are large tributaries which are 
 not very far from salt water, and just below 
 there are dams, and the other streams are not 
 really good spawning ground for the salmon, 
 and naturally in the fall, they come down ; if 
 they go over these dams, they are lost, they 
 cannot get back. Well now, this lake that I 
 told you about, there is only one stream, it is 
 too small for the salmon. Now, the salmon eggs 
 that we get at AldeUj 75 of those are worth as 
 much as 100 that we take at Sebago. 
 
 Mr. Wilson : — 
 
 I want to express m}' gratitude to this gentle- 
 man fisherman here, and I want to just give one 
 item concerning the shad fishery of the Hudson 
 
— 66 — 
 
 Hiver in the line of propogation of fish. In 
 1869, the estimated value of the shad fisheries 
 of the Hudson River was $7,000.00. In 1895, 
 under fish culture, there wer'^ 4,000,000 lbs. of 
 shad taken out of the Hudson River ; and while 
 the shod in the former years were sold for 
 75 cents each, in 1895, these 4,000,000 lbs. of 
 .shad were sold, busks for 10 cents and roe shad 
 for 20 cents, 4,000,000 lbs., showing what fish 
 culture we were doing in the Hudson River for 
 shad. 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 I will give you another shad story : In 1872 
 I think, 4,000,000 little shad fry — it is quite a 
 large number — were taken across the continent 
 to the Pacific Coast. At that time, they were 
 not known in any of the Pacific Coast waters, 
 and I think it is about 10 years later that they 
 were sold on the San Francisco market for 
 about 7 cents a pound, and they have become 
 established there. 
 
 I had a visit from the Commissioner of New 
 Zealand, last year. He was travelling around 
 this country, to examine our methods of fish 
 culture, he was telling me about the waters of 
 New Zealand; at one time they had no fish in 
 their fresh waters, except a peculiar variety of 
 eel ; and now, by carying from other conutries — 
 thousands of miles — the eggs of the brook 
 trout and the salmon trout, I think the salmon, 
 
 
67 — 
 
 1. In 
 
 heries 
 1895. 
 lbs. of 
 while 
 Icl for 
 lbs. of 
 le shad 
 at fish 
 ver for 
 
 :n 1872 
 quite a 
 ntinent 
 y were 
 waters, 
 at they 
 cet for 
 3ecome 
 
 of New 
 around 
 of fish 
 ters of 
 fish in 
 iety of 
 itries — 
 brook 
 almon, 
 
 — lam not sure — they have very fine trout 
 fishing and salmon fishing in the streams of 
 New Zealand. 
 
 Mil. Oak : — 
 
 We consider that we have certainly passed 
 the experimental stage, as far as fish culture is 
 concerned. It is an undoubted fact that v/e can 
 hatch fish in very large number.s. It simply 
 demonstrates that the necessity of caring for 
 our fish is certainly very important It i3 very 
 desirable at least to keep this stock constantly 
 on hand, because the fish bring, in the way of 
 tourists to our State, $10.00 where the game 
 brings $1.00. It is a more important thing, 
 decidedly more important than the game ; but 
 to make sure of the best success, we need to do 
 a great deal more. In our State, we know a 
 great deal, compared with what they did 30 or 
 40 years ago ; but compared with what there is 
 to learn about the business, it is almost nothing. 
 Now, for instance, here in Canada, if any of you 
 have followed the business so th ^'oughly regard- 
 ing fish diseases, we should be glad to get it. 
 About the only remedy which we regard as a 
 sovereign remedy, is common salt. Undoubtedly 
 there are many specifics that can be used in our 
 hatcheries. Probably Mr. Titcomb can give us 
 this information. This mistake that we have 
 made with some of our hatcheries is this : we 
 have ordinarily located our hatcheries in small 
 streams, in order to get water that is sufficiently 
 cool. Every one knows who has studied the 
 
— 68 — 
 
 business at all that if you raise water about 70° 
 that trout will beat, and if it is about 80" that 
 salmon are goin^ to bite. Consequently it is 
 necessary to have your hatcheries located on 
 streams where the water is sufficient by cool. By 
 doing that it necessarily makes our supply of 
 water limited. If we could have located in one 
 big hatchery, instead of the 4 or 5 that we have, 
 in Maine to-day, where we could take the water 
 from the bottom of some lake, so we could have 
 an abundant supply with the same degree of 
 temperature, undoubtedly it would have been 
 a great advantage to us ; but what we need 
 more than anything else is the caring for these 
 fishes at different stages. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Have you tried bass ? 
 
 Mr. Oak : — 
 
 We do not need to. The bass takes care of 
 itself. Our valuable fish, in the shape of trout 
 and salmon, their spawn is left to their own 
 destruction ; the bass we do not prize very high- 
 ly, excepting in one or two small localities, so 
 that you cannot interest us very much in bass. 
 Each locality has its particular fish. In Massa- 
 chusetts, where they have not perhaps suitable 
 water for cultivating trout and salmon they 
 prize the bass, because it is the best they can 
 iret. We find, with reference to this screenino- 
 that has been referred to, this fact in many 
 small lakes and in the old towns that have be- 
 
out 70° 
 iO" that 
 ,ly it is 
 ated on 
 jool. By 
 ipply of 
 i in one 
 ve have, 
 le water 
 lid have 
 eerree of 
 ,ve l)een 
 we need 
 'or these 
 
 care of 
 
 of trout 
 leir own 
 Iry high- 
 llitie3, so 
 
 in bass. 
 Massa- 
 
 suitable 
 Ion they 
 |hey can 
 
 jroening 
 
 In many 
 liave be- 
 
 — 09 — 
 
 come fully settled and the woods cleared away, 
 and the streams dried up in conse(juence ; we 
 find so little inlets, so few stream inlets running 
 into these lakes that the salmon have very little 
 room to spawn in such lakes us that ; they are 
 a little inclined to run down stream, and if the 
 lake is not well provided with a proper bottom, 
 why the reproduction in that lake is very small, 
 consequently we are obliged to perpetuate the 
 supply of these by pouring in a new supply each 
 year. 
 
 In Lake Auburn that Mr. Stanley refers to, 
 in the early spring, they run up stream to wash, 
 In some of the other lakes, they do not have 
 them as large ; and where that occurs we have 
 to use screens with your permission, then, I 
 would just like to refer to the very last item, 
 the matter of transportation and sale. This is 
 a point that interests us down in Maine perhfips 
 a little more than it does you people here. We 
 have a little sellish interest in regard to it, and 
 I admit that I am talking from a selfish stand- 
 point when I mention this. This imaginary line 
 that divides your province from the State of 
 Maine serves as a great protection to a certain 
 class of poachers to visit our state. We have, 
 for instance, an absolute close time on beaver ; 
 the value of their fur makes it a temptation for 
 poachers to capture anil sell, when they cun. 
 Now, to show you exactly what I am driving 
 at : in the province of New Brunswick, when tish 
 or game is captured, and they wish to send it to 
 
— 70 
 
 Boston or New York, it all has to travel through 
 the State of Maine. We are disposed without 
 any request from the provincial authorities, to 
 render every assistance that we can, if they 
 desire that they should accompany the sports- 
 men to the proviuce, to pass it through the state 
 of Maine without any difficulty or hindrance, 
 provided it is caught legally in open time, in the 
 province of New Brunswick. Otherwise under 
 no circumstances or conditions will We allow 
 game or fish illegally caught, to pass through 
 Maine. Now, I ask you here in Canada, to 
 reciprocate something on this lines, with refer- 
 ence to this beaver. I understand in the prov- 
 ince of Quebec you have an absolute close time 
 there ; but at the same time, while beaver are 
 not allowed to be killed there, they are allowed 
 to be sold in open market in the city of Montreal. 
 I may, perhaps, be wrongly informed ; but that 
 is my opinion regarding it. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 No. 
 
 Mr. Oak : — 
 
 There is one Peter Fontaine who is the worst 
 poacher we have, and he comes from Beauce 
 County ; he has captured our game and brought 
 it over and sold it. We caught him one time ; 
 but on account of the United States Government 
 letting him off easily, he reproached them with 
 selling openly in Montreal. Some people from 
 our vicinity bought in Montreal ; but what we 
 
— 71 — 
 
 irough 
 dthout 
 ties, to 
 f they 
 sports - 
 le state 
 clrftHce> 
 >, in the 
 3 under 
 B allow 
 ihrough 
 kada, to 
 h refer- 
 le prov- 
 Dse time 
 aver are 
 allowed 
 Montreal. 
 3ut that 
 
 le worst 
 Beauce 
 brought 
 He time ; 
 ernmeut 
 in with 
 Ic from 
 kvhat we 
 
 ask in the State of Maine is that you will, per- 
 haps, assist us in every way possible to wipe 
 out this practice. Now, we have had one of the 
 mast essential points put in our law, to prevent 
 this commercial dealing in tish and game. We 
 strive, as far as possible, to guard against it. We 
 have compelled everj'^ market man who has been 
 hitherto allowed to sell game, we have compelled 
 them to take out a license ; not only must they 
 obtain that license, but keep a complete record 
 of how and when and where they purchased 
 every particle of that fish and game that they 
 sell. Now, then, if any man is disposed to 
 violate the law and capture it for commercial 
 purposes, to sell to these market men, his record, 
 unless it is doctored, his record would show that 
 fact We have got absolute evidence to convict 
 that man. He cannot market under the present 
 law any moose ; he cannot market any partridge. 
 Unfortunately, the State of Massachusetts has 
 no market laws ; they will allow^ game illegally 
 captured to be sold at any time. The Courts of 
 Maine, for many years, sustained them ; they 
 could smuggle it out into the Boston and 
 New York markets, Boston more particularly. 
 It is a shame, we are trying to guard against it. 
 I am going to state as a remedy for that, as a 
 speakei"* suggested here to-day, that under our 
 laws, common I think to the States and the 
 Dominion as well, a man dealing in lural.)er is 
 responsable for the stampage on that lumber. 
 Now, if that is true with reference to lumber, 
 
 
72 — 
 
 which is owned by the individual, when you 
 come to the tish and game which is owned by 
 the government, it seems to me that it is perfect- 
 ly competent for the Government to say that he 
 will retain a lien on that game, of those fish. 
 Then, when Mr. marketman in Boston or New 
 York deals in our game, or our fish, and we can 
 tiace it to his shop, we can come pretty near 
 getting good value for it. I do not know 
 whether that is possible ; we can trace 'o anyhow- 
 Of course these markets afi'ect you just the same 
 as they do us. Whatever will benefit the State 
 of Maine will benefit the province ; whatever 
 will benefit you in Canada will certainly benefit 
 us ir Maine. We hope and trust that these fish 
 and game laws will not be considered from a 
 selfish standpoint, from an individual standpoint 
 of the state or the province ;. but for the whole 
 of us, because our interests must necessarily be 
 in common. 
 
 I have occupied a great deal of your time, 
 gentlemen, and more than I ought to have done. 
 I realise that fully. I am pretty full of this 
 subject in a way ; but have some difficulty in 
 expressing my ideas as clearly as I ought to. I 
 am willing to plead guilty, that nearly every 
 enthusiastic spoilsman gets to be a little cranky 
 in his particular notions. My associates on the 
 Board of Commissioners, in the State of Maine 
 are equally enthusiastic with me ; they want to 
 do the very best they can for the state of Maine. 
 We cannot agree always ; our personal experi- 
 
i you 
 i(\ by 
 rfect- 
 lat he 
 c fish. 
 • New 
 7C cnii 
 T near 
 know 
 lyhovv- 
 e same 
 J State 
 latever 
 benefit 
 esc fish 
 froin a 
 id point 
 whole 
 rily be 
 
 ir time, 
 [c done, 
 of this 
 |ilty in 
 to. I 
 every 
 jranky 
 on the 
 Maine 
 rant to 
 I Maine, 
 jxperi- 
 
 — 73 -- 
 
 ence varies somewliat, some few things that Mr. 
 Stanley here is thoroughly imbued with tliat 
 the ideas are correct, and his experience is longer 
 than mine, and I ought to defer to it — well, my 
 experience has been to be contrary to some of 
 the ideas he has. I think this must naturally 
 creep into the workings of this Convention J 
 occasionally wo will have a little disagreement ' 
 but I hope, on the whole, everything will be 
 weighed carefully, not, as I say from a selfish 
 standpoint for any state or province, but for the 
 general good ; and we will be willing to conform 
 with the wishes of the majority, as fnr as we 
 are concerned in Maine ; wo pledge you to do 
 that. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President : — I am sure that every individ- 
 ual member will regret that Mr. Oak is oliliged, 
 on account of business reasons, to leave to-night. 
 But l)efore he goes I wouM say to him that T 
 regret very much to hear him that he discon- 
 tinued coming to our province, because he wns 
 obliged to pay a license ; and I wish to say to 
 him, and I am sure the Government will back 
 me, that when he comes to New Brunswick, he 
 will liave all the fishing he wants ; ]>ut the lands 
 he refers to are owned by the railroad company, 
 and if they asked him to pay a license fee, they 
 were acting in the individual capacit}'^ of owners 
 of the land. 
 
 n 
 
 ■''I 
 
-- 74 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 If you will permit me jnst one word, as Mr. 
 Oak's (lisgrossions liave heon of so much value 
 to us, and as he will not be hero to-morrow, I 
 would like to ask one question of him, with 
 reference to number 20, the leasing of hunting 
 and fishing territories in Maine. I believe he 
 can speak as to their experience, perhaps to our 
 great benefit. 
 
 Mr. Oak : — 
 
 Mr President and Gentlemen : — In answer to 
 that, — Iain treading on delicate grounds, be- 
 cause our policy clashes with that of other 
 districts. 
 
 In the State of Connccticnt, a few years ago, 
 they passed a hiw prohibiting ex{)ortafcion out 
 of Connecticut of a certain species of duck ; the 
 duck were kept for home consumption. Several 
 parties in New York took these dnck, and 
 brought them to New York ; they were prose- 
 cuted and convicted, and they sippealed to the 
 United States Court. The United States Court, 
 after a long delay, as is usual in snch bodies, 
 handed down a decision, the substance of which 
 was somethinir like this : That the fish and the 
 game within the border.-s of any state was the 
 absolute property of the citizens or the govern- 
 ment of that .state 
 
 Now, then, the state of Maine has adopted 
 this policy with reference to our fish and game 
 
— 75 
 
 m 
 
 us Mr. 
 value 
 
 row, I 
 , with 
 anting 
 Dve he 
 to our 
 
 swer to 
 ids, be- 
 f other 
 
 ars ago, 
 ion out 
 ck ; tho 
 Several 
 V, and 
 prose- 
 to the 
 s Court, 
 bodies, 
 which 
 and the 
 was the 
 
 orovern- 
 
 a( 
 
 lopted 
 
 ffame , 
 
 — that under no circumstance antl no condition 
 will exclusive rights or exclusive privileges be 
 granted to any individuals or company of 
 individuals ; clubs can be formed, and located in 
 the state of Maine ; but all the exclusive rights 
 that they can have, as clubs, is the right to erect 
 numerous hotels, perhaps on certain wild lands, 
 it is a matter of treespass, if others go on there, 
 excepting with a permit ; they cannot acquire, 
 under that system, any exclusive privileges with 
 reference to the fish and game. You and I and 
 everybody el5o are free to go there, to fish and 
 hunt ; they have tried to break over that law 
 in Mauie. Very many of these clubs try to gu-in 
 exclusive privileges on certain lakes, or to hunt 
 within certain territories ; but the state has put 
 a damper on it. 
 
 We think, in comparing our lakes and our 
 preserves, comparing them with the conditions 
 in the provinces around, — of course you must 
 realize that we set these conditions, to know how 
 one compares with the others. 
 
 It is very much to our advantage never to 
 grant exclusive privileges. It is very much to 
 the advantage of the state of Maine to have 
 larger numbers, rather than a small number 
 with the little fee that they w<jiild pay into the 
 state treasury for their privilege. It is our 
 policy, we think it is right, but we are open to 
 conviction. If you can show us any better 
 policy, we will be glad to change. 
 
— 70 — 
 
 THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE DEBATE 
 IS MOVED.-CAKKIED -CONVENTION 
 RESUMED AT -S i\ m. AT PLACE VIGER 
 HOTEL, MONTRI^AL. 
 
 Mr. Bastedo :— 
 
 In connection witli tliis question of tisli hatch- 
 eries, fish propagation may be ullied to tlie 
 subject. An<l in connection with tlie fish propa- 
 gation, fish pens might come in. It is a burning 
 question, and the Americans might be interested 
 in it. Aie tluse found successful in tlieir opera- 
 tion ? I woultl like to hear an opinion with 
 regard to that. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President : — I would like to hear a little 
 further, if we could, with regard to the salmon 
 trout fiy. The gentleman from Maine spoke 
 about the small fry, only 1 per cent of it living. 
 The Ottawa, from which we get our fry, inva- 
 riably sent it out very small, from about h inch 
 to 1 inch long ; and, as we are informed, only 1 
 per cent of that lives in Maine. 1 think that is 
 not our experience in Ontario. I know we have 
 been getting that fry for years, I think probably 
 about 15 years ; it has materially increased our 
 lish ; in the little lake where we have been 
 putting it in, last year we took oiit over 10,000 
 salmon trout fish ; we had better fishing than 
 we had before in 25 years, and we have found 
 
 I 
 
 and 
 ing ii 
 
— 77 — 
 
 ION 
 
 latch- 
 
 the 
 iropa- 
 irning 
 ■rested 
 upera- 
 
 1 with 
 
 little 
 salinou 
 spoke 
 living, 
 inva- 
 h inch 
 only 1 
 that is 
 Hvc have 
 obably 
 Ised our 
 c been 
 10,000 
 ijT than 
 found 
 
 a marked success in putting in the small fry, 
 and T would like to know if the Ottawa hatchery 
 is making a mistake in sending out the small 
 fry, or if any others liere hav« had exporienco 
 in that line, outside of my own. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President 
 
 lid just 
 
 brief word 
 
 1 woui 
 
 in that relation. I have been the lo.ssec of the 
 St. John River, nt Gaspe, for some ten years. 
 Actually there has been put in that river, up 
 to within two or three years, salmon fr^'-, and 
 almost every fish taken in Dartmouth, where 
 the fish are larger thnri they are in St. John — 
 our fish in St. John, we never get above 25 lbs,, 
 and I understand that is the record for n great 
 many years I am happy to sny that the past 
 year has demonstrated that the fry, up to a 
 certain extent at any rate, have increased the 
 fishing ; we have been taking some out at 35 lbs. 
 That demonstrates clearly, to my mind, that 
 they flourish, and they return to our river, 
 instead of going to Dartmouth ; that is a point 
 which cannot be disputed. 
 
 A Speaker : 
 
 I might say with reference to this trout fry 
 and salmon fry that we have been experiment- 
 ing in this way, and it has been the custom down 
 in New-Brunswick to got the fry, and simply 
 dump it into the lake, right in the open water, 
 and we have found in that way that we haye 
 
ftrx~ 
 
 [•- -: 78 — 
 
 never had any good results ; but these last two 
 or three years, we liave adopted a different 
 system, that is we take, in the first place we 
 have men go right down and clean out all the 
 large trout that may be in tlie brook ; then be- 
 fore we put the fish in, we send a man over witli 
 a dip net, and the water is cleared ; he dips that 
 trout out ; then we put our fry in ; they are 
 placed in there, say about June, w? keep them 
 in there until the fall, jus^. before the ice makes ; 
 and then we let them out ; we find very good 
 results in that way. We are trying, in this waj^, 
 — as Mr. Oak said to-day, that we receive more 
 from the tourists than we do in game ; we find 
 the same result as Mr. Oak has stated that they 
 are a number of people come down there for 
 our open season of fishing ; whereas only a 
 limited number come for the hunting season. 
 
 Now, what we want to do in our province, we 
 want to encourage the tourist as well as the 
 hunter ; we have taken this system, and we 
 want to follow it. Now, while we have, so far, 
 been depending on the Dominion hatchery for 
 our supply, — our fishery connnissioner here, Mr. 
 Smith, has gone to a iJTeat deal of trouble ; he 
 has caught larger fish, that is to say trout, from 
 2i- to 3 lbs., and taken the off'ttl from them, and 
 had it placed in the Dominion hatchery ; but we 
 are trying to erect hatcheries for our own pur- 
 poses, r.iid we think that we can follow that 
 sj^stem, — to stop off the lakes first, the lakes 
 that belong to the Crown, very little different 
 
 Bi 
 
 big; 
 TJi 
 tlie 
 clii 
 
79 — 
 
 bwo 
 •ent 
 
 we 
 the 
 
 be- 
 A^ith 
 that 
 ' are 
 them 
 ikes ; 
 jTood 
 way, 
 more 
 } find 
 3 they 
 ire for 
 nly a 
 on. 
 
 ce, we 
 the 
 
 \ we 
 far, 
 
 ry for 
 
 re, Mr. 
 
 e ; he 
 from 
 
 n, and 
 
 ut we 
 
 n pur- 
 
 thafc 
 
 lakes 
 
 liferent 
 
 as 
 
 u' 
 
 30 
 
 from some others. We have, in our province, a 
 lot of what we call private lakes ; but we will 
 stop the lakes ; and giving the fry to the private 
 lakes, for the purpose of encournging those 
 people that will come down there to visit the 
 province to have some littk^ spoit in the way of 
 fishing ; and I think that the system we are now 
 following, if you will follow that, you will find, 
 instead of dumping the fry right into the open 
 water, at the time they come in the cans, — they 
 get almost next to frying ; they are not able, for 
 a few (lays, to protect themselves, and the Inrger 
 fish come there in the next few days, and eat 
 them up. We find that very beneficial, and we 
 find they are increasing tne tiout now, ami 
 increasing very fast, 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 Mr. President : — In regard to the transfer of 
 fish from their natural hahib.t to others, I might 
 say we have had very favorable results, showing 
 the advantage of artificial culture. In New 
 Brunswick, on the Restigouche, as some of the 
 gentlemen here may know, the average catch 
 by the salmon club there, which keeps a record 
 every year of its take, the average weight is 
 about 19 lbs. ; they run as high as 38 and 40 
 lbs. there. The Cascapedia, of cour.se in our 
 biggest river, they run up as high as 50 lbs. 
 There has l)eon a hatcheiy en the cast side at 
 the Restigouche and a hatchery in the Mirami- 
 chi ; they are 100 miles apart, difierent rivers 
 
80 
 
 altogether, flowing into different waters, we 
 have transferred the ofial of tlie Restigouche 
 within ft reasonaUe period of their hatching up 
 to our Miianiichi hatchery, and have planted 
 fry in the northwest Miraniichi. We have com- 
 menced that work about 15 years ago. At that; 
 time and previous to it the average weight of^ 
 the noi thwest Miratnichi fish, as the southwest 
 also, was about 10 lbs. Now, the average has 
 risen, with us, and it seems clear, by reason of 
 the propagation of this Restigouche ofFal in the 
 Miramichi river, and ohis to an average of 
 50 lbs. ; 22 or 23 or 25 lbs , is not unusual on 
 the northwest Miramichi, and such an average 
 was never know previous to the artificial culture, 
 so that is one of the benefits of artificial culture. 
 
 A Speaker, : — 
 
 I am glad to meet liere people who are inter- 
 ested in fish culture. And the question of 
 putting out fry, fish linger) ings is one of great 
 interest to me. In the division of our labor 
 between my colleague, Mr. Titcoivdj and myself, 
 — • I am superintendent off our state hatchery ; 
 Mr. Titcomb has charge of the Government 
 hatchery at St. Jolinsbury, and the question of 
 bringing fish fry and fish fingerlings is one of 
 considerable interest to us ; and I will relate to 
 you my opinion in relation to the putting out 
 of fry. In the early liistory of our hatchery 
 we were ip a n»uch crow«led c<mdition ; and 
 when tl^Q little fish liatched out, and when in, 
 
— 81 
 
 , we 
 uche 
 
 g«P 
 luted 
 
 com- 
 
 that 
 
 ht of 
 
 iwest 
 
 has 
 
 ion of 
 
 n the 
 
 ge of 
 
 al on 
 
 rcraj^e 
 
 alture, 
 
 ulture. 
 
 inter- 
 lon of 
 
 orroat 
 
 labor 
 jyself, 
 hery ; 
 anient 
 
 ion of 
 one of 
 
 jite to 
 o- out 
 
 in 
 
 chery 
 
 ; anel 
 
 hen in 
 
 the sac period, and then in the brooks, they 
 would die. Of course you knew that when 
 they absorb the sac, and begin to fonn, they 
 need more water surface, so that they had to be 
 out early in the season, in March and April, 
 and put out in the sac period. Now, all brooks 
 at that time are turbulent with the melting 
 snow, and I believe a very small portion would 
 ever live. A little later we got an appropriation, 
 on which our hatcheries extended them out for 
 reainig troughs. We spread the trout out in 
 these troughs, and began to feed them ; having 
 this additional room we began to feed them, 
 end they would get along better. Now, we keep 
 these until ^hey are fully 1 inch long, and very 
 fully developed, and they take food ; when the 
 food is put in the troughs you can see the hsh 
 for it, and take these little morsels of liver, and 
 shake it in their mouths, the same as a fish 
 weighing 10 lbs. We keep them for from 4 to 
 10 weeks, and plant them in May and June ; 
 then they are well developed trout, they are 
 developed to that extent that it is frequent in 
 the troughs to see one little trout 1 inch, or 1^ 
 inches long, to see one little trout trying to 
 consume another. They are well developed, and 
 when put i!i the brook they seem to be active, 
 and part after each other as a fish naturally 
 would. Now, to put otf from a million to a 
 million and a hall, and undertake to rear them 
 until fall, would be quite an expense, as you 
 know ; if we had money enough so that we 
 
— 82 — 
 
 could keep them till October and November we 
 would certainly do it ; but we do not, and we 
 believe that we are getting thoroughly good 
 results from putting out tish after from 4 to 8 
 and 12 weeks, and we feel very much encour- 
 aged with our success. We are getting good 
 reports from t1iffe)*ent parts of the state : people 
 who are interested in fish culture take the fish 
 and plant them, and watch tliem, and report to 
 us, so that we believe that tish at that age and 
 at that size and planted after the spring freshets, 
 do well. 
 
 Let me suggest if you use the tin cans abso- 
 lutely, do away with them as soon as you can 
 and use the Land Patent Noodeu Jacket Can, 
 This is a can patented by S. E. Land, one of the 
 Commissioners of Wyoming, and the patent 
 book costs you $2.00 It is a tin case put into a 
 wooden case ; you put ice in there, and you can 
 transport them for miles, with safety ; the ice 
 lasts all day long. 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 Mr. President : — I might say that my experi- 
 ence with trout is about the same as the last 
 speaker. I commenced under the direction of 
 the government of New Brunswick, operations 
 in hatcliiing see<l trout. We stripped, at the 
 usual time, in October ; they hatched out with 
 us in about April ; we keep them without any 
 food whatever until they are there not lei-s than 
 eight weeks, sometimes twelve ; we pay no at- 
 
— 83 — 
 
 L' we 
 I we 
 [rood 
 to 8 • 
 :;our- 
 fjood 
 eople 
 e fish 
 n-t to 
 c and 
 shots, 
 
 aV)S0- 
 »u can 
 t Can. 
 of tlvc 
 ])atent 
 
 into a 
 ou can 
 
 ho ice 
 
 :!xpen- 
 he hist 
 ion of 
 rations 
 at the 
 it with 
 ub any 
 ss than 
 no at- 
 
 tention wliatever to the feeding ; we then dip 
 them out ; ahiiost invariably I liave carried them 
 150 miles a day ; I never lost a fish in transpor- 
 tation ; I have a can wliich has not only the 
 tubes which the last speaker referred to, but I 
 have double bottom in the can with a tube 
 leading dow^n into it, and the bottom is perfo- 
 rated in such a way that by putting an ordinary 
 little syringe in, 1 can pump air up to that 
 water at any time. Of course, in transportation 
 over a railway, if the track is not equal to that 
 of the C. P. R. or the I. C. R., which is disgust- 
 ingly good, you will liave to stir them up and 
 pump air int<^ them, and with regard to the fish 
 being too young to take care of themselves. I, 
 as a new man who had to find out for himself 
 what they did, enthusiastic in the matter, I re- 
 member one Saturday night I conveyed about 
 2,000 of these fry to a little l>ranch of the 
 Kouchibouguac River, I dumped them all in one 
 place, at 12 o'clock at night ; I went to the house 
 of a guide and had a sleep, and he and I started 
 about 9 the next morning, and spent two hours 
 watching what had become of the.se trout; there 
 were some probabl}^ 5 to 12 inches long, in this 
 biook. The question to me was as to whether 
 these little fish would be eaten by the big ones ; 
 and it was to satisfy my own mind as to that 
 that I put tliese 2,000 in, and watched them the 
 next day. I followed them up the stream for 
 about 2 hours, and they had not gone down 
 more than 10 feet anywhere, I suppose 90 per 
 
— 84 — 
 
 cent of them went down the stream and we 
 found them about \ uiilo down, and there seem- 
 ed to he an instinct on the part of those little 
 things to keep out of the main stream. Now, 
 this was only one of the instanc(?s ; I do not 
 know what it might be in other people's experi- 
 ence. I dare say if we had the space or areas 
 of water in which to raise these small fry, until 
 they became fingerlings, then it would be much 
 better ; but at the same time I believe we can 
 handle much more tish, and we can get the same 
 results by putting them in the streams where 
 they go, wl»en they are very young indeed. 
 
 Mr. Wilson (of Glen Falls, N -Y.) : — 
 
 Mr. Presi<lent : — I want to emphasise the 
 remarks of the gentleman from Maine, 'this af- 
 ternoon, in regard to the closing of the streams 
 that are being stocked with lish. The small 
 streams running into Lake George where land- 
 locked salmon fry have been placed, during the 
 last four or five years, have been closed in ac- 
 cordance with law ; and the result is that last 
 year in Lake George there have been landlocked 
 salmon taken as large as 7^ pounds. Undoubt- 
 edly the success of our stock in Lake George, 
 with landlocked salmon, is largely due to the 
 fact that the small streams where the fry were 
 place«l originally, were close<l entirely. To 
 confirm that opinion, I want to speak of the 
 stocking of th»^ Hudson River, with sea salmon ; 
 probably 60 or 75 miles from the mouth of the 
 
 ■ 
 
85 — 
 
 id we 
 seem- 
 little 
 Now, 
 lo not 
 xperi- 
 • areas 
 \ until 
 1 much 
 we can 
 e same 
 where 
 id. 
 
 ise the 
 
 this af- 
 
 .reams 
 
 small 
 
 land- 
 ing the 
 
 in ac- 
 lat last 
 
 locked 
 
 (loul)t- 
 George, 
 
 to the 
 y were 
 ly. To 
 
 of the 
 salmon ; 
 of the 
 
 Hudson River several years ago there were 
 placed, I think, 200,000 fry of so'i salnum ; on 
 my way into the Adirondack region wo stopped 
 at a hotel, on the Hudson Kiv^or, the ])anks of 
 the Hudson where there was at the hfick of the 
 river what j'^ou would call a pool ; the sahnon 
 fry had been placed in the Hudson Riv«-., at 
 this point we had for supper and for hrea^fast, 
 small fish, I should say al>out 9 inches in length ; 
 they were new fish to me; they we t not brook 
 trout, they looked like trout, and I said to the 
 proprietor of the hotel : " What are these fish 
 we are eating?" "Why," he says, " those are 
 salmon we are giving you, which we are getting 
 up from the North River. " Now, the real facts 
 of the case were the jjuides were takinij: these 
 salmon from the State of New .York. And so 
 I want to emphasise the absolute necessity of 
 closing your streams where yon stock with 
 sahnon or any oth(;r kind of fish, because the 
 average man that is fishing for the mone^' that 
 is in it is going to catch every one of thtise fish, 
 if he can get 50 cents a pound for them. 
 
 A Sfeakeii ; — 
 
 Might I be allowed to add a word for the be- 
 nefit of those interested in the transportation 
 of fish ? In our state it would be inipossible to 
 work this, except by this henrl.y cooperation of 
 all the railroads. It is a fact that no railroad 
 in the United States has ever refused the com- 
 mis.sioners of Vermont any favor they have 
 asked at their hands ; I suppose the Province 
 
_ 86 — 
 
 of Quel)ec would do tlio same if we asked them- 
 It may be that you liave such a liberal propor- 
 tion in this noble province ; but I have not 
 found out how much it is yet, tliat you do not 
 need to be as economical as we do in Vermont. 
 Now, in relation to these fish boxes that I told 
 you about, I have had 20 of them made, 
 for which I paid a tinsmith So. 00 each ; we have 
 them made 5 feet long and 2 feet high, or deep ; 
 the top is a cover ; and last year we sent the 
 majority of our fish without any attendants, put 
 them in the bagsjage car, and we have free 
 tran.sportation from the railroads, and unless 
 they were going to some junction where it wa3 
 necessary for them to wait 2 or 3 hours, as it is 
 for them to come to the Central Road from the 
 Boston & Maine, at Montpelier; but if they 
 were going right through we could sen<l them 
 just the same as trunks. 
 
 A Speakkr : — 
 
 This question of fry and fiingerlings is one 
 of my hobbies. I believe in fingerlings. The 
 Auierican Fishery Societ}^ which is a national 
 organization, has discussed this question and 
 threshed it over, until we have had to rule it 
 out of the state, because we have had the advo- 
 cates of fry and the advocates of fingerlings ; 
 the advocates of fry, in some instances were 
 commissioners, fish culturers who wanted to 
 make a big report on paper, but really this fact 
 of stocking the streams every yaav must show 
 
87 — 
 
 them- 
 )ropor- 
 ve not 
 do not 
 rmont. 
 , I told 
 
 made, 
 e have 
 L'deep ; 
 jnt the 
 its, put 
 /e free 
 
 unless 
 I it wa3 
 as it is 
 om the 
 f they 
 I them 
 
 IS one 
 The 
 itional 
 on and 
 rule it 
 i advo- 
 lings ; 
 were 
 ted to 
 us fact 
 show 
 
 results. Mr. Bailey has explained to you the 
 result of our hatcheries in planting fry, and we 
 have good results from these plants ; but it 
 seems to me it is a question of J.udgment as to 
 where the tish ought to bo put, aside from the 
 (question of finance. 
 
 Now, it' you go to the commercial fish cultur- 
 ers, — we have a number in New England who 
 sell fry and fingerlings, and calculate to pay the 
 running expenses of their hatcheries ; if you go 
 to these fish culturists, they will charge you, we 
 will say, if the ordinary price at the present 
 day is $1.50 per thousand for the fry, — it 
 depends on the number you buy ; you may got 
 them for loss than that ; if you buy the finger- 
 lings delivered in the fall, they charge you from 
 $20 to $3 ) a thousand fof them ; that is the 
 difference in price and really that is the differ- 
 ence in the cost of raising fingorlings. Now, 
 in most of our government hatcheries or our 
 state duutchories this (juostion of finance governs 
 whether we .shall fry or fingorlings. Many of 
 the national hatcheries of the U lited States are 
 now raising fingorlings ; but if fry are to be 
 planted, you must select your waters, and that 
 has been my experience that whether you can 
 roar fingorlings, or plant fry, a groat deal 
 doponds on the method of distril)ution ; and I 
 was told by one of the messengers who went 
 oven to Texas, to deliver some tish to an appli- 
 cant, for [/lanting in ceitain waters, that he 
 travelled for 24 hours after he left the fish car ; 
 
— 88 — 
 
 and when ho came to the destination, the oppli- 
 cant was not there ; he hunted him up ; untl 
 when the ap[)licant came alonnj and looked into 
 the can and saw those little tishes, he said ; " I 
 do not want tliem." And it turned out that that 
 man actually supposed that the United States 
 fish commissioners were going to send him some 
 large iish for his own table. We have found 
 that in many instances applicants for fish do 
 not realize that it is hard work to plant the 
 fish. I use 1 to do it, before I was a commisioner, 
 and I can assure you it is hard work. 
 
 In order to ])lant fry successfully, we must 
 look, for instance, for the proper teujperature ; 
 the head waters planted them in the spring, but 
 rivulets that feeil the brooks scatter them along ; 
 they mu^t bo put in carefully ; we must bo 
 careful that the teuiporature of the water is 
 right. Now, all these questions will not pro- 
 bably help you nuich ; but in distributing to 
 other men it should be impressed upon them 
 that they must expect when they receive them 
 that it is hard work to plant, that it requires a 
 great deal of care in putting them into the 
 w^ater ; that is a vary important point ; but to 
 come to the question of fry and fingerllngs 
 again, — to carry 5,000 fingerlings, as Mr. Oak 
 expressed it, in lefcrence to salmon, re(iuires 
 tremendous water area. In most cases our hatch- 
 eries to-day, have not anticipated the great 
 demand for tish ; or anticipated this demand 
 for tish culture, and the rearing of fingerlings, 
 
— 89 
 
 appli- 
 » ; and 
 d into 
 1; "I 
 it that 
 States 
 fi some 
 found 
 fish do 
 int the 
 isionor, 
 
 e must 
 'ature ; 
 ng, but 
 along ; 
 mst be 
 ater is 
 ot pro- 
 iting to 
 n them 
 e them 
 uires a 
 ito the 
 but to 
 erllngs 
 r. Oak 
 Miuires 
 hatch- 
 great 
 lemand 
 jrlings, 
 
 and as ho stated very few liafccherioR have the 
 w\ter supply ; but in order to get the necessary 
 supply you have t(^ go to a lake that has a good 
 How, and take your water froin the bottom of 
 it. Then we will say one of the cheapest met- 
 hods of rearing fish and iingerliugs is to have a 
 battery of troughs ; in other words, line of 
 troughs set up-iight outdoors every sunnuor 
 and the troughs set up in the hatchery, they 
 may be a little deeper, 12 or 15 feet long, and 
 in any number to meet tlie demands of the 
 number vvhich you wish to rear. To rear 2,000 
 fingerlings will require, we will say, a trough 
 12 or 15 feet long and 12 or 15 inches wide, 
 with a flow of water of 1,000 gallons You can 
 imagine from that, how many troughs you have 
 to have to rear a large numl)er and that has to 
 be anticipated in the location of new hatcheries. 
 In my own work of rearing, I have quite a 
 number of ponds 8 feet by 20 feet ; each pond 
 is supplied with about 30 gallons of water per 
 minute, and we put into these ponds 10,000 
 salmon fry and keep them until September or 
 October. The salmon do not require as cold 
 water as the brook trout. I have just built 
 another set of 10 ponds 8 feet wide and 40 feet 
 
 long- 
 
 This question of fingerlings is all a (juestion 
 
 of water supply and money to carry it on, 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 You have a stream of water flowing through 
 
 it all the time. 
 
 iMi 
 
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 W- 
 
— 90'— 
 
 II 
 
 ill 
 
 III 
 
 Previous Spfaker : — 
 
 Yes, sir. When we measure out the fry, we 
 measure them out very carefully and we find 
 that the measure corresponds very accurately 
 with the count ; but when you get fingerlings, 
 and when your applicants gets 500 fingerlings, 
 see how well satisfied and well pleased they are ; 
 they know what they have got, and nearly all 
 of them will leave you put the fry in, and you 
 have made an advance over the natural prop- 
 agation, but your little fry is still an enemy to 
 ^he larger fish and all the larger life, and espe- 
 cially if you are stocking lakes or streams in- 
 habited by other small fish, they will eat up a 
 tremendous lot of those little fish in one day. 
 
 Mr. Chambers (of Quebec) : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — I am sure we have all listen- 
 ed with a great deal of delight and pleasure to 
 the information we have derived from the pre- 
 vious speakers on this subject. For my part, as 
 one who has made a conscientious study of fish 
 culture, I may state that it has been worth my 
 while to travel up from Quebec to listen to the 
 difi^erent discussions. This matter of fish cult- 
 ure for the Province of Quebec is much older 
 than most of us in Canada ; I presume most of 
 the gentlemen in the United States may be 
 aware of it. The parentage of fish culture in 
 Canada has been generally attributed to those 
 past masters in the art. Washer and Wilmott ; 
 but I have at home somewhere in iny study 
 
 I V 
 
— 91 — 
 
 some correspondence from nn old octogenarian, 
 of Ottawa ; and it contains nniplc proof of the 
 fact that souievvhere in tho fifties, Richard Nottle 
 established in an old building, near the foot of 
 Ste. Ur-'ule Street, in Quebec, under the juris- 
 diction of Sir Edmund Head, the Governor- Gen- 
 eral, has established a fish hatchery, tho first 
 which was ever established in the Dominion of 
 Canada. 
 
 Now, Sir, this afternoon I felt almost like 
 interjecting a remark, when another question 
 was under discussion, that matter of leasing 
 territories ; because nothing at all was said from 
 the standpoint of the enormous protection of 
 fish, which this country derives from American 
 gentlemen and American clubs, in the way of 
 leasing the territories from us. In addition to 
 that, some of these gentlemen have leased fish 
 hatcheries ; I might mention the name of Mr. 
 Wilson, of New York, who has established quite 
 a hatchery in the waters contiguous to the St. 
 Bernard Fish and Game Club, on the River-du- 
 Loup. This matter of fish and game protection 
 is not only a matter of vast importance to our 
 friends, who are making such good use of it on 
 the other side of the line; but I contend, per- 
 haps veiy few of us have really thought the 
 matter over, and have imagined the possibilities 
 and what fish culture might do for us in the 
 Dominion of Canada ; it is a well known fact, I 
 presume, to most of the gentlemen present, that 
 50 years ago many tributaries of Lake Ontario 
 
 ll 
 
 in 
 
 nil 
 
 5 1 
 
 n 
 I 
 
 I? 
 
— 92 — 
 
 H 
 
 were swarming with salmon ; and it seems, to 
 come back to it, witli the proper reproduction 
 out t]u3re, that nolwitlistinxliiig the shortage of 
 water, that many of your own rivers are still 
 oT sufficient size to he again inhabited by fish 
 life, and thnn again, sir, no one knows better 
 than yourself wliat niagnificent livers we have 
 down on thf* far eastern coast of Lalu'ador. 
 whicli liave been n»ore or less decimated by the 
 wa^toftd lishing near their mouth-^, which may 
 be also made magnificent ii-ihing streams, if we 
 could n\st()ck them. Now, I do not know, sir, 
 if any gentleman present has read nny resolu- 
 tion upon this subject; if I thought they had 
 not, I sliould bring this matter towards some 
 definite end; and I would suggest some reso- 
 lution whicli would express somewhat the 
 approval of this Convention, of the extension 
 of the system of fish culture. But I do not see 
 that we can express an opinion in regard to the 
 matter of fry or iingerlings ; but for my own 
 part, I am strongly in favor of keeping the fish 
 until they grow to the length of fingerlings, if 
 finances would permit. 
 
 If no one has brought this up, I would like 
 to submit the following : " That experience 
 having fully demonstrated the beneficial results 
 of fish culture conducted upon broader scientific 
 principles, this convention would hail with 
 pleasure n giuieral extension of the indu.stry, 
 under both Federal, state and provincial control, 
 and would express the hope that the age at 
 
— 93 — 
 
 ems, to 
 [Auction 
 tage of 
 ire still 
 by fish 
 
 better 
 re have 
 brarlor. 
 
 by the 
 ch may 
 ;, if wc 
 Dvv, sir, 
 resoln- 
 loy had 
 s some 
 e reso- 
 at the 
 tension 
 not sec 
 
 to the 
 ly own 
 
 ic fish 
 
 ngs, if 
 
 i\ like 
 rience 
 esults 
 entifie 
 with 
 nstry, 
 ontrol, 
 ige at 
 
 which fry are planted, should receive that care- 
 ful investigation and study which the impor- 
 tance of the matter demands." 
 
 Of course, I should be sorry if there was any- 
 thing in there which would seem like dictating 
 to those states which are already interested in 
 the matter; but for these provinces of ours, 
 which have not yet begun to do it ; and I think 
 it is a dangerous matter for them to go into it 
 without studying it, — or this reason a man who 
 was engaged in planting some small fry — he 
 mentioned the name of the streatn to me, where 
 I know it is not uncommon to find this, and in 
 the midst of these fishes where he was planting 
 fry and lanJlocked salmon. 
 
 Mr. Paukeu : — 
 
 I would like to say that some 4 or 5 years 
 ago, we received some 50,000 salmon fry from the 
 Federal Governuient ; we deposited them in the 
 Lake of the Laurentian Club ; these iish were 
 received by us in 5 cans ; I had one of them 
 taken down to the whaif, opposite the club 
 house, and began to deposit them in the water ; 
 instantly a crowd of perch surroundetl these 
 fish, and i^obbled them up as fast as they were de- 
 posited. I took them, and put them into three la- 
 kes by themselves; and this last season we caught 
 a few of these fish. I began, I might state that 
 in 1870 I began the propagation of fish in the 
 St. Maurice District, on my own hook ; I was a 
 graduate of the fish hatchery iu the State of 
 
 ifi 
 
— 94 
 
 
 New Hampshire. Some friends of mine hod a 
 hatcliery, and I made it a labor of love to study 
 this question ; and not having had any artificial 
 method of propagating the fish, I went to work 
 in that direction, as I had seen it done in those 
 hatcheries, and all through the River du Loup 
 country, the tributary of Lake St. Peter, I have 
 distributed fish, with good results ; coming back 
 east of there, on the East River on which our 
 clubhouse is built, I began by carrying the fish 
 from one lake to the other. I airried, — about 
 six years ago, I brought fish from 2 to 3 lbs. in 
 weight, 5 or G miles across country, and deposit- 
 ed them in a lake about 5 miles from our club 
 house in which our guides and every one claim- 
 ed that there were no fish. I was told this 
 spring, by some parties passing through this 
 lake, that they had seen fish rise at the upper 
 end of this lake. I went up there this fall with 
 a friend ; it has always been my custom in a 
 lake I am unacquainted with to ascertain if 
 there are any fish in it, to try with a spoon ; 
 that is not a very sportsmanlike way to do it, 
 I will acknowledge it, but I had to do it. I 
 landed some 100 fish, and the average was 
 10 IbiJ. in weight. That is my experience with 
 planting the parent fish in these lakes. 
 The Chaiuman : — 
 
 It is moved by Mr. Chambers ; " That experi- 
 ence having fully demonstrated the beneficial 
 results of the fish culture conducted upon 
 broader scientific principles, this Convention 
 
— 95 — 
 
 ) had a 
 4.* study 
 rtificial 
 to work 
 in those 
 lu Loup 
 , I have 
 Qgbock 
 ich our 
 the fish 
 — about 
 B lbs. in 
 deposit- 
 )ur club 
 c: claiin- 
 >ld this 
 gh this 
 e upper 
 ill with 
 •m in a 
 rtain if 
 spoon ; 
 do it, 
 it. I 
 *e was 
 e with 
 
 expen- 
 neficial 
 upon 
 ,rention 
 
 would hail with plenaure a general extension of 
 the industry, under both federal, state, and 
 provincial control, and would express the hope 
 that the age at which fry are planted, should 
 receive that careful investigation and study 
 which the importance of the matter demands." 
 
 Motion number 11. — Cauried. 
 
 The Chairman :— 
 
 Number 12 : " Bounties for the killing of 
 wolves and wildcats." 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I think there ought to be a bounty of $2 or S3 
 given for the slaughter of these animals, or a 
 bounty of $10. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President and gentlemen : I should like 
 to see the same thing also occur in the province 
 of Quebec as in Ontario ; I know, in many cases, 
 there are a number of wolves killed in Quebec 
 and brought over to Ontario, in order to secure 
 that bounty. I believe it would be a good thing 
 in both provinces. I should insi.st on this Con- 
 vention advocating to the province of Quebec 
 that a bounty should exist in (he province of 
 Quebec of $10 for wolves. I believe there is in 
 Quebec to-day existing in the farther northern 
 part of it many hundreds of wolves, and I think 
 it would be a very good thing to advocate. 
 
 
 m 
 
00 — 
 
 ^!f 
 
 Dh. Finney :— 
 
 On tliis vary .subject as roj^anls tho province 
 of QiioIk'c, the fish and ^(anje protection club of 
 Qucboc have taken a very fijroat interest in tliis 
 subject, and it was discussed at a meeting last 
 winter. It is a well known fact that where the 
 red deer prevail, the taxes increase year by 
 year, and it is going to bo so serious that in 
 some parts of the County Argontcuil section, 
 where deer were very plentiful a year or so ago, 
 are now being driven away to other parts wliere 
 wolves are appearing, and it is really a serious 
 matter. Though it isonly a matterof $3 l>ounty, 
 I am sure it would end in a lot of good, and 
 everything possible .should be done to encourage 
 the extermination of the wolf, outside of pois- 
 oning him ; and I am sorry to say that they 
 frecjuently do that, to secure the bounty in 
 Ontario. But where they are killed in a legitim- 
 ate way, they .should be killed in every po.ssible 
 manner, and I would like to hear discussions 
 from other gentlemen, in the same line 
 
 There is no reason why the wolf should exist 
 at all ; there is nothing to be said in his favor 
 one M'^ay or another. 
 
 Mr. Paukeu : — 
 
 I know, from experience, the destruction that 
 wolves can do. In the Saint Maurice territory 
 west of the St. Lawrence River, the red deer 
 have made their appearance, and with them the 
 wolves, and it is only a question of time when 
 
— 97 
 
 D VI nee 
 :lubof . 
 in this 
 ii<r last 
 cic the 
 oar ])y 
 that in 
 section, 
 so ago, 
 ; wlicre 
 se Fiona 
 bounty, 
 o(l, anrl 
 courage 
 of pois- 
 at they 
 inty in 
 ciiitim- 
 .vjssil)le 
 tussions 
 
 IM exist 
 is favor 
 
 ion that 
 jrritory 
 ;d doer 
 
 liem the 
 when 
 
 they will kill them all out, kill all red deer ; 
 and I think there ought t) be a bounty on their 
 scalp. 
 
 Mil. Smith : — 
 
 With us, I am glad to say we have not any 
 wolves ; but we have a bounty all the same ; we 
 have some wildcats ; we have a bounty, and the 
 result if^ that there is hardly a week passes that 
 we do not have an affidavit sent for the killing 
 of a wildcat ; so, that is the result of that, that 
 we have our people so that they are killing 
 them in great numbers. We have foun<l from 
 reports that they have been killing the deer 
 in great numbers. 
 
 The Chairman : — 
 
 What is the bounty in New Brunswick ? 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 S1.50. 
 
 The Chairman : — 
 
 You are not called on to refund, very often. 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 Every week, for wildcats. T might say that 
 we have had sufficient exporionce in this matter 
 to warn 3'^ou not to make youi- bounties too 
 excessive in the province of Qnel)ec. A few 
 years ago the Restigouche club oH'ered a bounty 
 of 25 cents a head, for teal ducks, and there 
 was a very large amount of money went out of 
 the exchequer out of the Restigouche salmon 
 
 t[W 
 
 ,ii-. 
 
— 08— . 
 
 club tor the hctuls of tliosc birds, and a very 
 observant ineinl)Gr of the chib was at the head 
 Waters of the Metapodia, about 26 miles up, and 
 he wondered at this, and he found this, that the 
 truly honest inhabitants of the St. John River 
 who used to kill their birds over there, and 
 bring the heads over to the Kestif^ouche, and 
 collect the fee of 25 cents u head away down on 
 the Restigouche. So, if you make your bounty 
 excessive, $25.00 instead of $10.00, it may be 
 an incentive for them to travel a long way for 
 it. 
 
 The Chaihman :~ 
 
 It is moved by Mr. McGoMUiE, that a bounty 
 of ten dollars be paid for wolverines, in the 
 province of Quebec, and $3.00 on wiblcats 
 
 Number 13. 
 LICENSE COUPON SYSTEM. 
 
 Dr. Finney : — 
 
 If there is any ofentlcmari from Ontario per- 
 haps he could explain fully the .sj^stem adopted 
 there. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I might just say in a word that we have a 
 license sy.stem there which has worked well. 
 We find that some men are makinjj abuse of 
 their system ; l»ut, on tht» whole, it is a success. 
 We have a coupon system for deer ; every one 
 
— on 
 
 very 
 head 
 
 tthe 
 River 
 , and 
 
 > ^^'^ 
 wn on 
 
 ounty 
 
 lay be 
 
 iiy for 
 
 jounty 
 in the 
 
 s. 
 
 io per- 
 rlopted 
 
 lave a 
 ll well, 
 [nse of 
 luceess. 
 
 iry one 
 
 going into the woods must take out a license 
 first with two coupons attached, and one of these 
 coupons ini^st be attached to each deer, before 
 the transportation company oun take it up We 
 find that sometimes a party of fiivo will go out.aud 
 they will take out extra licenses ; they will take 
 out one license for John Sm'th, one for Thomas 
 Brown and so on. Wo are not changing that, 
 .so that they liave to sign it, and that it also has 
 to be detached by the transportation clerk, and 
 they are putting some restrictions on it, — it 
 will have to be cancelled, but on the whole, the 
 licen.se system is bringing us a good revenue. 
 We have hail no complaints of it from sports- 
 men, and we are getting benefits from it, as we 
 expected ; and we are vorj'^ much pleased with 
 it indeed, I have only heard of one case where 
 they had been detachcl, and they said the 
 coupons had been sent back to be used over 
 again ; but this next year, if the coupons are 
 cancelled, this can be avoided. 
 
 Mr. Ussher :— 
 
 Mr. Chairman :— I wouhl oiler this Resolution : 
 •' That we recommend the adoption of the gene- 
 ral coupon tag system for transportation of deer, 
 caribou and moose " ; Seconded by Mr. Cormier. 
 
 Dr. Finney :— 
 
 In reply to this motion, I have very much 
 pleasure indeed in endorsing every word of it, so 
 far as the province of Quebec is concerned, and 
 the sooner it is adopted, the better ; it will 
 
 i il 
 
-« 100 — 
 
 certainly le a check on the u])use of the system. 
 In Me«;antic, recently, where one in«Iivi<lual 
 kille<l 40 (leer hinil, for which he was severely 
 punishe<l, after a ^reat (Jeal of trouble ; hut if 
 this check tii«( system had been in vof^uo, that 
 couM not liappen at all, ami I do hope tliis will 
 receive the sanction of this convention. 
 
 Motion put and CAUIUIOD. 
 
 No. 14. 
 J)()(;S CHAS1N(J DEKK. 
 
 Wll. IJSSHKK : — 
 
 We heard with a ;^reat «leal of pleasure, this 
 afternoon, tlu; remarks of the delegates from 
 MaiiHi. I think 1 voice the opinion of every 
 one, when I suy that we all consider that they 
 have thin;^s down to a pretty fine point in that 
 state, I say, personally, as fir as 1 conctrned 
 for I have read their laws very carefully, several 
 times, and 1 notice that they proliihit absolutely 
 the dji^j^ing of deer, the keeping of dogs for 
 deer ; and that in their last report, one of the 
 items from the statistics, as given, is 20 dogs 
 killed, which were found either dogging deer, 
 or were kept for that purpose. That, I think, 
 is a very eloquent testimony from the experts 
 as to whetlier it is a wise thing or an unwise 
 thing. 
 
 Mr. Wilson : — 
 
 In the State of New- York we have this law. 
 
 tha 
 
 tha 
 
 wat 
 
 r«'co 
 
 necl 
 
 liav( 
 
 cern 
 
 Nowl 
 
 New 
 
 jure* 
 
 I thi 
 
 SUgg( 
 
 in coj 
 you 
 
verely 
 
 but if 
 
 0, tliat 
 
 lis will 
 
 are, this 
 t«s from 
 jf every 
 lilt they 
 It in that 
 nc^rned 
 , several 
 solutely 
 at)gs tor 
 lie of the 
 20 dogs 
 ng (leer, 
 I think, 
 experts 
 1 unwise 
 
 us some 
 was one 
 
 this law. 
 
 — 101 — 
 
 I want to suf^orost tli»it when you innke n^piv- 
 sentat.ions to y<iur l«*«risl»itnr(», tlu.t not only 
 hounds he ninntionc'd in eonncrlinn with the 
 h(Mnidin^. hnt all dof^s timt pursuo dner. A 
 coupleof years aj;«), I went into the Adirondncks 
 for the purpose of shooting f^rouso ; we had witli 
 spaniels, a little cocker spaniel, there 
 cocker spani(d in the party, ai I other 
 dogs. One of tliO gentlemen that was with us 
 .stti<I, on our way home : " If you w ild like to 
 have a race, I will give you a rnce to-n><>iTow 
 nion.li't.;, before dnylighf," that is rnr(» with a 
 deer, cliase the deer to water. 1 asked tiie 
 young man wh(U"e his d()g was that het!X[)ected 
 to make his race with ; and he pointed to the 
 little spaniel. 
 
 1 think it is well that wo should recommend 
 that all dogs be included. Now, it is a fact 
 that these small dogs will put a deer into the 
 water quicker than a hound, and I ask that a 
 reconuiiendation of this kind be made. In con- 
 nection with tlie killing of deer in water, we 
 have had a very great deal of discussion con- 
 cerning tlie shooting of deer over the jack. 
 Now, many of our sportmen in the State of 
 New-York claim that there are more deer in- 
 jured by jack shooting than are actually killed. 
 1 thii»k it would be a wholesome thing for us to 
 suggest, to recommend to your legislature that 
 in connection with that antihounding law, that 
 you put in a clause such as we have in the 
 
— 102 — 
 
 T! 
 
 State of New- York, absolutely pr()hil)itinfr the 
 hunting of deer in the n\<T\^. with a light. 
 
 I verily believe that there are more doer 
 destroyed by this way, this system of hunting 
 with a jack light in the night, than there are 
 by the hounding of deer. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I might say this that our experience once in 
 New Brunswick, some few years ago, was this, 
 that the government of Nova Scotia asked us 
 from New Brunswick to allow them to catch a 
 certain number of deeg rather that we provide a 
 certain number for them. 
 
 At that time there wa-> no law prohibiting 
 dogs in our province ; we allowed them to get 
 the deer, and in getting 8 or 10, I suppose, they 
 destroyed at least 50, hunting them with dogs. 
 After this, we had at a great expense and with 
 a great derl of trouble, punished these dogs in 
 the County of Charlotte ; we had to fight the 
 thing to the knife, but now our law is prohib- 
 itory, we allow no dogs. Now, here is a com- 
 plaint which we had a few days ago, to our 
 commissioners, — some dogs are so well trained 
 you can put them in a bag, and you can carry 
 the dogs a week for miles. This is a complaint 
 that is really made against one of our wardens. 
 This is a thing we have to investigate. 
 
 Here is one of your people in the State of 
 Maine that makes a complaint against one of 
 our wardens on the border, that he was using 
 
 Ml 
 
 stol 
 
 th( 
 
 act] 
 
— IQA — 
 
 • t.he 
 
 > 
 
 doer 
 nting 
 i'e are 
 
 fts this, 
 sketl us 
 catch a 
 ;ovide a 
 
 hibiting 
 
 ^ to get 
 
 >se, they 
 
 |th dogs. 
 
 ,nd with 
 logs in 
 
 ight the 
 prohib- 
 
 |s a com- 
 ^ to our 
 1 trained 
 ;an carry 
 jomphiint 
 wardens. 
 
 State of 
 1st one of 
 iwas using 
 
 dogs <o hunt deer, to sell on the market. Ho 
 goes on to say : " Moreoxer some dogs are so 
 well trained that yon can put them in a hag, 
 nnd carry thorn on your back for miles ; they 
 will never utter the least noise ; you may lay 
 the bag on the ground, and if another dog comes 
 along and sniffs I lie bag containing the dog, he 
 will not even stir." This is a complaint that we 
 have now under investigation. So I would go 
 in strongly for the prohibition <*f hunting with 
 any kind of dogs. 
 
 Mr. Wilson : — 
 
 I know of a fact that I have flushed deer in 
 the Adirondacks, had an Irish setter with us 
 simply as a pet, not for the purpose of shooting 
 at all ; we have known that dog to put deer to 
 the water a mile or two off, and come back to 
 the part}' within 10 minutes ; thej^ put a deer 
 quicker into the Wf.ter than a hound ; they nm 
 by sounding ; they make no noise whatever, and 
 it docs not make any difference what kind of a 
 dog it is, — you can make almost any dog dhase 
 doer, and ho says nothing about it whatever ; 
 he just gets in his work, and he is one of the 
 most dangerous dogs v;e have had to contend 
 with in the State of Nevv York. 
 
 Mr. Crawi'ord : — 
 
 There is no question at all that we will have 
 stock arguments as to the best manner of killing 
 the deer Here there are the la7,y mon und the 
 active man, and as botwoen the two the man 
 
m 
 
 11 
 
 — 104 — 
 
 who <loes not care about tramping a long dis- 
 fcunce in a day would prefer seeing the deer 
 going into the water, and shooting him. We 
 will never settle the question by arguing in that 
 way. I myself think it is a very inhuman way ; 
 he should be given a chance for his life. Tiie 
 question in my mind is that it is exterminating 
 deer in many places, an<l it causes them to 
 leave the districts. I know in my personal ex- 
 perience where deer have been very plentiful 
 in days gone by when hunting was in vogue, 
 and wo found no difficulty in getting our limit 
 in the course of a very few daJ^s ; but the dis- 
 trict was found out by the hound friends, and 
 after the advent of hounds, the deer disppeared. 
 I had to give up going to the place, although 
 it was a very out of the w»iy district ; we had 
 to travel 50 miles by wngon, to reach the dis- 
 trict ; yet you can go there now, and stop 3 or 4 
 weeks, and you can scarcely get a deer hunting, 
 because the hounds hive driven them out of 
 the district. The property that our club holds 
 at the present time in the province of Quebec 
 deer are very plentiful in it. As you are aware, 
 we have 4 months to shoot deer ; bub there are 
 only 10 days in which you can shoot with dogs. 
 I have gone to this district before the advent 
 of dog hunting, and found the sport veiy good ; 
 and, as you are aware, in still hunting, you can 
 get very good hunting by attracting the deer. 
 1 have Asked the guides frequently to telegraph 
 me when they htul the first fall of snow ; but in 
 
— 105 — 
 
 (Vis- 
 deer 
 We 
 that 
 
 ^vay ; 
 The 
 
 ating 
 MU to 
 a\ ex- 
 sntiful 
 
 vognc, 
 r limit 
 he dia- 
 ls, and 
 peared. 
 though 
 we had 
 
 le dis- 
 
 3 or 4 
 
 anting, 
 out of 
 d) holds 
 Quebec 
 aware, 
 lere are 
 th dogs, 
 advent 
 
 y g«otl ; 
 
 you can 
 
 the deer. 
 
 lelograph 
 
 ; but in 
 
 no season has there been a fall of snow before 
 the advent of dog shooting, and in these dis- 
 tricts I found a total absence of deer ; the dogs 
 had driven them out. You take a party of 10 
 or 15 people in the district, and each of them is 
 privileged to bring a certain number of deer, 
 and they will bring the full (piantum, in every 
 instance, if the deer are plentiful ; one man may 
 not shoot any, another will shoot 4 or 5 and so 
 on, and of course they will bring down a greater 
 number than they are allowed to bring. 
 
 I believe the privilege ought to be stopped, 
 as to shooting them in water, or after they 
 leave the water ; it is a foolish law, so that if 
 no one else moves a resolution on this subject, I 
 will do it. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 We have a good deal of experience regarding 
 dog hunting in my country, because it is a 
 country where we have more dogs ^han we have 
 here. I think dogs are note wanted at a I jms 
 Mr, Crawford has remarked, it is important for 
 a person who does not v ant to move about ; he 
 wants to sit down near the water, ano get an 
 Indian or some one else to put the dogs after 
 the deer, and the deer come to him, an he shoots 
 them. That is all. I do not call that sport ; 
 sport means this that you have to earn your 
 game, and if you want to do that, you have to 
 walk through the bush, and so on in that way, 
 • to capture the deer. Now, deer hunting with 
 
— 106 — 
 
 dojgs aitioiints to this if you do not train your 
 dogs in the spring of the year, what do we find ? 
 Even a little Indian dog will get a deer in the 
 snow, and the dog follows thoin until they are 
 unable to move, and they are killed just for the 
 skin. Now, what can you do to nn Indian ? 
 Put him in jail ? There is no satisfaction in 
 that. 
 
 Moved by Mr. PAUKtli, That d<;gs chnsing, 
 and shooting de- i in the water be prohibited. 
 
 No. 15. 
 SHOOTING DEER IN THE WATER. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 There is one point in that that has not been 
 brought out. I will say that we bought 17 
 deer, about 20 years ago, and we protected them 
 for about 1*8 years, — but the point I wish to 
 bring out is this ; we have a dog law which 
 pei'inits any person, any inhabitant who finds 
 the dog chasing the deer, to shoot him on the 
 spot. Now, I am a lover of dogs, but I find we 
 have to do that, to protect the deer. 
 
 I have a great many reports of dej.r being 
 killed by dogs ; they will chase them in the 
 early winter, when the ponds are frozen over ; 
 the deer will get on th(! ponds and become 
 helpless. 1 have known of one deer who split 
 himiSelf open, and we had to kill him ; arid it 
 sce^ms to the thait in the recommendatioii to the 
 
 couj 
 
in your 
 efinil ? 
 r in the 
 hey arc 
 for the 
 Indian ? 
 iction in 
 
 chnsinj];, 
 ibitecl. 
 
 TER. 
 
 not been 
 )OU^ht IV 
 cttMlfchem 
 I wish to 
 Ivvv which 
 who lirids 
 lim on the 
 b I fiiul we 
 
 de^r Toeing 
 eni in the 
 ozen over ; 
 lid become 
 who split 
 Inn ; and it 
 Ltiot. to the 
 
 — 107 — 
 
 legblufcure, in regard to dogs, tlie idoA shou^ 
 be included that dogs during this season should 
 not be allowed to run at large, if they are going 
 about chasing deer. 
 
 A S^PEAKER (Mr. Ross) :— 
 
 I would make this motion, seconded by Mr. 
 UssHER : " That this Convention disapproves of 
 the habit of killing red deer with the aid of. 
 dogs, or in the water, and would recommend the 
 abolition of the practice at any season of, the 
 year." — Carried. 
 
 Moved by Mr. Smith ; seconded by the re- 
 mainder of the meeting, that the meeting adjourn- 
 until 10 a. m. to-morrow (February. 3rd, 1900). 
 
 Feb. 3rd, 10 a. m., 19da^ 
 
 MEETING RESUMED. 
 
 No. 16. 
 
 IMPOSITION OF A LICENSE ON MARKET 
 MEN AND GAME DEALERS. 
 
 No. 17. 
 
 IMPOSITION OF A LICENSE ON THOSE 
 WHO ARE BUYING, SELLING AND 
 TANNING DEER, MOOSE, CARI- 
 BOU SKINS. 
 
 Mu Smith :— 
 
 It see^s to me a question as to whether »yoii: 
 could get legislation that wouW dp it niOE« 
 
practically than is done by the civic authorities, 
 the town authorities of any great towns ; they 
 would deal with the matter by by-law, and they 
 might rather resent interference by the Associ- 
 ation with their powers in that way. It seems 
 to me that the laws are sufficient now governing 
 the exposure and the sale of these articles. 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 I would like to read, for the benefit of those 
 who have not got a copy of these regulations in 
 this respect. 
 
 Section 27 provides that any niarketman or 
 provisional dealer having an established place 
 of business, in this State, may purchase and 
 have in his possession, in his said place of busi- 
 ness, not more than 3 deer, lawfully killed or 
 destroyed, or any part thereof, at one time, and 
 may sell the same at retail to his local customers, 
 provided however, that such marketman or 
 provision dealer, shall have procured a license 
 from the commissioners. It is further provided 
 that said marketmen shall record in a book, 
 kept for that purpose, and open to the inspectors, 
 the Inland Fish and Game Wardens and the 
 Commissioner of Inland Fish and Game, the 
 name and residence of each person of w^hom he 
 purchased such game and if any marketman 
 or provision dealers violate this section he shall 
 be fined $500.00 for each offt^nse. All market- 
 men or provision dealers licensed as aforesaid 
 shall pay to the Commissioners, in Cities or 
 
— 109 
 
 rities, 
 ; they 
 1 they 
 Vssoci- 
 seenis 
 erning 
 
 i3. 
 
 )f those 
 bions in 
 
 tmaii or 
 3d place 
 ase and 
 of busi- 
 illed or 
 |ime, and 
 stomeM, 
 ,nian or 
 license 
 provided 
 a book, 
 spectors, 
 and the 
 aine, the 
 [whom he 
 rketman 
 lie shall 
 |l market- 
 aforesaid 
 Cities or 
 
 Towns of over 3,000 inhabitants, $3.00 annually, 
 in payment of 50 cents for each deer retailed ; 
 the said marketman shall on December 15th, 
 mtike, sign and send to the Commissioners under 
 oath a ^atement setting forth the total number 
 of deer by them bought and of whom bought, 
 the date of each purchase during the time cover- 
 ed by their license. And whoever fails to make 
 the report mentioned in this section shall be 
 subject to a penalty of $100.00 ami' costs. 
 
 I would like further to read Section 23 ; it is 
 very much shorter: "Commissioners may an- 
 nually issue licenses to suitable persons to buy 
 or sell or tan deer skins lawfully taken ; such 
 persons shall take a record of all deer skins, of 
 whom purchased and shall report annually to 
 the Commissioners; the fee for such license 
 shall be $5.00, to be paid by the Commissioners 
 to the State Treasury and whoever unusually 
 and wilfully refuses to make such report shall 
 be punished by a fine of $100.00 and costs. " 
 
 The Chairman : — 
 
 Is it the pleasure of the meeting to report 
 favorably on those two clauses ? 
 
 Mr. TiTCOMB : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — Those two clauses do not 
 interest us very much in Vermont, wo have so 
 little of that sort of thing. Unloss there is any 
 more discussion on the matter, I move that we 
 proceed to the next nuu»ber; leave those where 
 
— 110 — 
 
 they arc subject to call ; in other words, lay it, 
 on the table ; seconded by Mr. Smith. 
 
 A Speakeu: — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — I would move this resolution 
 " Whereas this Association has heard with great 
 interest the explicit statements of th« repre-, 
 senta^ive from Maine respecting suljjeCts 16,17^ 
 and 18, that we arc in favor of a system by 
 which the niarketmen and game dealers, buyers^ 
 sellers and tanners of deers and propA'ietors of 
 hunting camps shall, if it can be legally so 
 arranged in any State or Province, they be duly 
 licensed by the State or Province." 
 By the Chairman :— 
 
 It is moved by Mr. Titcomb ; seconded by. 
 Mr. Kelly: "That we are in favor of a system 
 by which marketmen^ game dealers, buyers, 
 sellers and tanners of deer and proprietors o^ 
 hunting camps, sbill if it can be legally so 
 arrangetl in any state or province, be duly 
 licensed by the state or province." — MOTION 
 Carried. 
 
 No. 19. 
 COLD STORAGE. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President : — I would like to ask for in- 
 formation in connection with cold storage, 
 whether that would mean that game or fish, for 
 instance, after the close season ; or supposing I 
 
 
— Ill — 
 
 lay, it. 
 
 lution 
 
 crreat 
 
 repre- , 
 
 16,17- 
 em by 
 payers, 
 tord of 
 illy so 
 »e duly 
 
 kd^d by. 
 system 
 buyers, 
 tors o^ 
 ally so 
 duly 
 Lotion 
 
 for in- 
 
 jtorage, 
 
 |tish,for 
 
 )Osing 1 
 
 shoot a moose or caribou, and previous to the 
 close season, I put it in cold storage, does that 
 mean that I can keep it there any length of 
 time. This is one of the troubles we have to 
 contend^ith, this cold storage. 
 
 A Speaker: — 
 
 Our law reads that a man shall not buy, sell 
 or possess, except with lawful excuse. If he has 
 shot a deer, or taken tish in the open season, 
 and he has it in cold storage, and he can prove 
 thtit it is caught in the open season ; it remains 
 with the Justice. 
 
 Mr. JoNCAs:— 
 
 Our law reads that no body has finy right to 
 offer for sale or to possess 15 days from the 
 close season. No cold storage proprietor has 
 the right to offer for sale or to have in his pos- 
 session any game at all. 
 
 Here is the law : " Every animal or bh'd, 
 when lawfully taken or killed, or such portion 
 of bird may be bought during 15 days ; and the 
 gamekeeper shall forthwith so'v/a". all animals 
 or birds protected by the preceding articles, 
 being offered for sale or in the possession or 
 custody or under the care of any person, after 
 the expiration of the 15th day, after the com- 
 menctjment of the close season, or which appear 
 to have been taken or killed during such close 
 season." So thaf , by our law, our game wardens, 
 our gamekeepers, any of our officers can go on 
 the Montreal market, to-day, and seize every 
 
— 112 — 
 
 Cftrcjise of moose or piece ot* moose, or deer, or 
 every partridge that he wouM liiid in the pos- 
 session of uny one. 
 
 Mil. TiTCOMB :— 
 
 I umlerstand, then, from the remarks of Mr, 
 Joncas, that we viohitetl the. law in partaking 
 of that spreail of gronse. I do not want to 
 violate the law ; hut uniler our existing law, 
 we can carry game for years. They have served 
 it in good condition, this last January ; the Fish 
 and Game Protection Association, of which I 
 am President, gave a l>an(|uet, and we had moose 
 shot the previous year, and it was very nice. 
 Now, it seems to nie that in connection with 
 any law of this kind, we should allow game to 
 be kept in cold stomge ; but that there should 
 bo some restriction. The cold storage men could 
 perhaps be licensed, and |)erhaps be accountable 
 at all tinits for what he places in cold storage ; 
 perhaps when a close season begins he should 
 give a report of what he h.is had. I do not 
 know just how to got at it, we tlo not have to 
 contend with that trouble veiy much, but cer- 
 tainly we do not want to encourage these men 
 to serve game to us as the Fish and Game 
 Protective Association, to violate the law, and 
 yet we enjoy such treats as we had this evening. 
 
 A 'Spicaker : — 
 
 Mr. Bastedo, of Ontario, when he spoke with 
 regard to the officials holding them, and the 
 owns of proof remaining on the people who had 
 
 fr. 
 
leer, or 
 ,he pos- 
 
 i of Mr. 
 itaking 
 want to 
 ing law, 
 e served 
 the "Fish 
 which I 
 id moose 
 ery nice, 
 bion with 
 rraine to 
 re should 
 [len could 
 countable 
 
 storage ; 
 le should 
 
 I do not 
 )t have to 
 I, but cer- 
 
 lese men 
 nd Game 
 
 IrtW, and 
 
 s evening. 
 
 ,wke with 
 and the 
 ) who h id 
 
 — llfl — 
 
 possession of them, he referred to fish. I might 
 say with regard to gjimo in Ontario, wo allow 
 dealers 5 dn^'s to dispose of their Mtnciv on lian«l, 
 and after thnt it must go to the cold storage, 
 and the cold storage men mu?t take out a lic»mse. 
 
 iMr. Joncas : — 
 
 Regarding allowing co'd storage with restric- 
 tions, I do think that there is no restriction of 
 tliat kind, we can impose on both sides that 
 would protect fish and game. If we wnnt to 
 protect the game, I think we will have to stop 
 the selling of game nfter a certain date. There 
 are certain matters to consider, to consider a 
 C()Id stomge as a warehouse ; for instance we 
 would liave gone to the cold storage proprietor, 
 and soy : " You have so much game in your 
 freezer, we will take the key of your freezer 
 and let you sell any quantity you want e\ery 
 day or every week." We found this would not 
 work, because if you go to the cold storage man 
 and allow him two carcases of caril)ou, to sell 
 on Friday, ho will have lost more ; he will buy 
 from someone else, and I think the only way to 
 protect our game efficiently is to sto|) the sale 
 of it altogether out of the season. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I am an advocate of prohibiting the sale of 
 game, tln-ough and through ; we had so much 
 la.st year, that we opened the sale of partridges 
 in our countiy, but it was very destructive ; we 
 will not do it any more. And I would even go 
 
11 
 
 — 114 — 
 
 so fur as to prohil»ifc the salo of duck, and in 
 every \viiy tliat you cnii, curtail the coinniorce of 
 our game ; it would In; a gn-at point in preserving 
 it. A man takes out a lic(Miso as a coal storage 
 keeper ; he takes out his $5.00 license an<l gives 
 liis returns to the govorniiionts, the wardens are 
 also allowed to inspect his premises ; he is under 
 ct'^rtain restrictions. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Presi<lent : — I might sny this, that in the 
 new act which wo have, which will be proclaini- 
 ed in a few days there is a section that wil|, 
 perhaps, cover this in a great measure, that is 
 that any person holding any kind of game is to 
 report to the nearest warden within 10 days 
 after the close season, so that any person not 
 making such a report is liable to a penalty. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 This interests me quite a good deal, on 'the 
 standpoint particularly of, we will say the 
 natives and the hunters who live by the products 
 of their hunting. If I understand our super- 
 intendent Mr. Joncas, correctly, that after the 
 15 days elapsed that it is j^ositively forbidden 
 to have in possession any portion of a carcass 
 of cariboo, that is correct. From your law I 
 find that you may kill cariboo up to the 1st of 
 February, and to-day all natives, we will say in 
 •Gaspe, go up the river in Jaiuiary, and perhap;^ 
 rejimrn late in January with the requisite nui^i- 
 ber, whatever your law allows, frozen ; thqy 
 
, and in 
 inorce of 
 Bservinjij 
 storage 
 n<l gives 
 dens are 
 is under 
 
 it in the 
 >rocUiim- 
 hat will, 
 e, that is 
 ime is to 
 10 days 
 srson not 
 alty. 
 
 , on the 
 say the 
 products 
 r siiper- 
 if ter the 
 orbidden 
 Fi carcass 
 r law I 
 he 1st of 
 11 say in 
 perhaps 
 te nmxi- 
 ■n ; tbqy 
 
 lianjr them up for their winter's meat, and tlioy 
 have to get rid of tlioni at any rato within 
 15 days. Now, I kriow it is onstoiiiary for tliosc 
 inon to lay in their supply of meat in that way ; 
 but here comes the trouble : it is contrary to 
 law to possess it. Now, how do we reconcile 
 this paragragh on page 87 : " It being contrary 
 to laiv to possess it after the 15th day." Here 
 we get this : " No person who has taken any 
 bird or n'Moial, suitable for food shall allow the 
 Hesh the> oi to be destroyed or spoilt." Now, 
 what is a man going to do ? 
 
 Mr. Parent (The Chairman) :— 
 
 We discussed that quite thoroughly last year; 
 we had two or three cases, before the Judj;e of 
 the Sessions here, and we lost our cases, and 
 we had the law amended to meet all those cases ; 
 we mtiet give a chance to everybody, but it is a 
 guarantee to have the license tharq to protect 
 the game! 
 
 Mr. Joncas: — 
 
 The law is meant specially for gauje dealers ; 
 we never interfere with private individuals ; 
 the law is meant for game dealers especially. 
 
 Mr. Parent (The Chairman) :— 
 
 Last year, some parties had game, and they 
 said, we have the hare in our windows, Imt we 
 do not offer to sell, just to attract the people 
 here, and we lost our suits, we could not prove 
 they were selling, and we put the words in : 
 
 If 
 
llfi — 
 
 i-i^r 
 
 " ill tlie care of uiiy person 15 days, which 
 appojxr to have been taken of killtnl during such 
 close season " and we have put tlie words " being 
 offered for sale " or " expo^ed for sale, every 
 game keeper shall forthwith seize all birds 
 pjotected by the preceding articles or any por- 
 tion of such animals or birds found by him " 
 (new law) " boing offered for sale" We entered 
 that in last year, — " or in the possession or 
 custody or in the care of any person. " 
 
 Of course, we never apply that to anjj^ parties, 
 it is foi" game dealers. , • 
 
 Mr. Smith (New-Brunswick) : — 
 
 I would say in our Province we allowed under 
 the net last year a . ^'mission to sell. The law 
 is silent on the subject but as there in no enact- 
 ment against it, they are permitted to sell 
 within 10 dnys of the closing ; but in order to 
 enable any one to sell and escape the line during 
 that 10 days, he must give notice to the warden, 
 but rtfter the 10 days, whether it is in the cold 
 storage or anywhere also, there is no sale. 
 
 Mr Parent :— 
 
 Durino' the last season w^e extended it and 
 gave the game dealers a chance to get rid of 
 their stuff. 
 
 Mr. Joncas :— 
 
 If I understand Mr. Smith well, ever^'' game 
 dealer in your province, a certain day after the 
 close season, is obliged to make a report, to 
 
which 
 ng such 
 " being 
 , oveiy 
 11 birds 
 ny por- 
 
 ontered 
 is'ion or 
 
 parties, 
 
 il under 
 ["he law 
 ) enact- 
 to sell 
 der to 
 luring 
 arden, 
 10 cold 
 
 it and 
 rid of 
 
 game 
 ;er tlic 
 )rt, to 
 
 — 117 — 
 
 report to one of your wardens the quantity of 
 game he has in his pos^^essiou at the time. 
 
 Mil. Smith : — 
 
 Yes, Jie has to go to the warden, and get a 
 permit to sell so much game. 
 
 Mil. Jon CAS : — 
 
 What mean^ have you to control him aftcr- 
 wifrds ? 1 suppose that he reports to your 
 wardens 10 carcases of caribou, what means 
 have you to control him, to ascertain that he is 
 not selling 20 ? 
 
 Hit. Smith : — 
 
 He has to dispose of it all in 10 days. After 
 10 days he is liable to a seizure. 
 
 Mr. Wilson (New-York) :— 
 
 . The State of New-York allows a certaiji 
 length of time, I tljink about 15 days, for the 
 possession of game killed in the State. It also 
 haS'va provision which I regret very much, 
 allowing the sale of game, if said game is certi- 
 litid as coming from some other state or territory. 
 I think the State of Massachusetts has practi- 
 cally the same law. I think it is fitting that 
 this Conveniion should express itself in the 
 langu«ge of the Forest and Stream, as being 
 opposed at all times to the sale of game, and I 
 wish that my friend, Mr. Titcomb, would lead a 
 resolution in substance similar to the Forest 
 and Strea<n, and present it for your consi- 
 deration. 
 
— 118 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — When we come up into this 
 bundless country full of big game, I suppose 
 that such a radical resolution as would be pro- 
 posed by the Forest and Stream would be 
 subject to some amendment ; but in order to get 
 an expression of opinion, and start the matter 
 in a right direction, I have made the following : 
 " Resolved that the sentinient of this ConventHon 
 is opposed to the sale of game in open market, 
 at all seasons of Uii year," 
 
 A Speakeu : — 
 
 1 do not know how you could abolish the sale 
 of game entirely, what are you going to do with 
 the cai cases ? Are you going to allow them to 
 lie in the woods ? Are you going to have a free 
 distribution bureau ? You must allow some sale. 
 I do not Approve of cold storage, because I believe 
 that cold storage means a great deal of dies1)ruc- 
 tion to game. But what are you going to do 
 with it ? Your carcases will be left in the bush, 
 that is what it is going to come to. Sportsmen 
 will go out into the bush and kill game, and 
 they cannot use it, according to the law I think 
 you will have to allow the sale of some game. 
 
 A Speaker: — 
 
 Every gonjtkeeper shall forthwith seize all 
 animals or birds protected by the preceding 
 ai tides, or any portion of such aniuials or bi;:ds 
 found by him, being offered for sale ov in the 
 possession or custody, or in the care of any 
 
119 — 
 
 into this 
 suppose 
 d be pro- 
 vould be 
 ler tofjet 
 \G ma>ttcr 
 allowing : 
 mventHon 
 :i market, 
 
 h the sale 
 
 ,o do with 
 
 V them to 
 
 ave a free 
 
 ijome sale. 
 
 I believe 
 
 desl^ruc- 
 
 ng to do 
 
 the bush, 
 
 Iportsmen 
 
 nme, and 
 
 I think 
 
 game. 
 
 seize all 
 )recedij4g 
 
 or birds 
 [i- in the 
 
 of any 
 
 person, after the expiration of the 15th (Uiy 
 after the commencement of the close season, or 
 which appear to have been taken or kille<l by 
 unlawful hieans, and shall bring them before 
 any justice of the peace, who, if the law has 
 been contravened, shall declare tluMn confiscated, 
 either in whole, or in part, for the benefit of the 
 province, and condemn the party offering for 
 skle or in whose possession, custody or care such 
 animals or birds have been found, to the penal- 
 ty provided in article 1410. 
 
 " Hpwever the skin of any animal or birds 
 which has been killed in hunting or shooting." 
 And the animals enumerated in the article are 
 exempt ; we exempt the skin of an animal 
 which has l>een killed in the short time ; that 
 will give 15 days to sell and dispose of the 
 game, after the close season. 
 
 A Speaker:— 
 
 As I understand the law of the province, you 
 allow an individual to kill one or more caribou, 
 one or more deer, and 1 moose. We are res- 
 tijicted in the State of New- York to the killing 
 
 of 2 deer in a season. Nearly all all I think 
 
 of the game hiws, restrict the killing of large 
 game^ — Now, the point I make is this : we all 
 want to protect the game but to the shame of 
 the State of New-York, we are to-day in the 
 City of New-Yorkj, the dumping ground of 
 illegally killed game in foieign states and pro- 
 vinces. The City of Boston is another dumping 
 
— 120 — 
 
 grouna for the sale of game, and the city of 
 Chicago, with its cold storage, is probably the 
 strongest point that sustains the violation of 
 law in regard to the game laws. Now, if you 
 believe in restriction, let us have a kind of rest- 
 riction that restricts. If we come here to this 
 Convention to stop the illegal killing and sale 
 and use of game, let us stop it, at least let us 
 make recommendations in that dii ection. Now, 
 I do not want to be considered as rank as might 
 be said in this matter. I believe in the plank 
 of the Forest and Stream, and no one will 
 gainsay the fact that that paper is the strongest 
 paper in the support of fish and game matters 
 in this cotintry ; however, if the sentiment of 
 this Convention is not with the Forest and 
 Stream, I would suggest that this Resolution be 
 withdraw and some other one presented, but old 
 gentlemen, if we mean what we say, let us 
 follow it out. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 • Mr. President : — I would move an amend- 
 ment : — " That in view of the larger destruction 
 of game caused by marketmen ; Resolved : 
 That this Convention would recommend the 
 ncm-sale of game, or the restriction of same as 
 much as possible." In putting my motion for- 
 ward, I might say that in late years I have be- 
 come a strong advocate of the nou-sale of game. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Before this motion is put, I would like to 
 
city of 
 bly the 
 ition of 
 , if you 
 of rest- 
 5 to this 
 ind sale 
 st let us 
 . Now, 
 IS might 
 le ^nnk 
 one will 
 trongest 
 matters 
 imfeiit of 
 [•est and 
 ution be 
 but old 
 let us 
 
 amend- 
 itruction 
 esolved : 
 end the 
 same as 
 )ion for- 
 
 lave be- 
 |of trame. 
 
 like to 
 
 — 121 — 
 
 suggest that we must look at tliis in its many 
 forms. In the first place, we issue certain li- 
 censes ; we issue a non-resident license, and also 
 a resident license ; now, the party getting that 
 license can shoot in our province one moose, one 
 caribou, and 2 deer. The man ircttinij that is 
 enabled to shoot his whole complement, that is 
 his caribou, moose and 2 deer. Now, right 
 within his family, they are unal)l3 to consume 
 that meat ; supposing he was to shoot a moose 
 and a caribou, in September, there would not be 
 sufficient cold weither, and he would not be 
 supposed to have cold storage in his possession ; 
 we must remember that we are not all wealthy 
 men ; for the real wealthy man, the spoi*tsn)an, 
 of course he can afford to have his cold storage, 
 and generally speaking he has a number of 
 friends, and he distributes all around. Nov.% in 
 deding with this question, we must be careful. 
 There would be the poor man's cry that we were 
 simply preserving this game for the lich man. 
 I think we are going very closely on this in 
 prohibiting the sale of game entirely, 
 
 Mr. Ussher: — 
 
 I think there is one thirg a good many of us 
 are losing sight of, that is, on the one hand, 
 there is big game, and on the other hand, there 
 is small game. Now, if 1 go out shooting, and 
 1 make a hog of myself, kill 25 partridges, there 
 is no reason why I should be permitted to sell 
 them. Now, I say that is the sort of game that 
 in Canada you want to restrict. 
 
122 — 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 
 m 
 
 »'.' 
 
 
 We are, no doubt, all here in favor of the 
 absolute prohibition of the sale at all times ; 
 but we have to consider that we have to go up 
 against privileges which may h ive existed for 
 a long time, and we may find that if we strain 
 public sentiment, that we may vnake poachers 
 of people who would never have thought of 
 such a thing. 
 
 Now, I will give you an instance, on the 
 southwest Miramichi River there were establish- 
 ed fisheries ; the country was settled, in the 
 deeds of some settlers was the right of fishing 
 in the old Crown grants ; the people there were 
 permitted say between the islands, where there 
 were islands in the river, to fish, in one-third of 
 the channel with nets ; nets were prohibited 
 beyond that J, and there was one close season 
 of 48 hours eveiy week ; that law aflfected 
 people living along about probably 75 miles of 
 river ; the people there were in favor of the law 
 as it existed, and they were pretty loyal in 
 endeavoring to assist the authorities in preserv- 
 ing the salmon. The Dominion Government, in 
 1886, passed a law absolutely prohibiting the 
 capture or the taking of salmon with nets, bey- 
 ond non-tidal waters ; that aflfected thousands 
 and thousands of people who were similarly 
 situated to those on this river that I speak ot. 
 Well, that river was one of the best rivers we 
 had in the province ; it is now one of the worst, 
 
— 123 — 
 
 avor of the 
 t all times ; 
 ave to go VI p 
 e existed for 
 b if we strain 
 ake poiichers 
 e thought of 
 
 itance, on the 
 Yere establish- 
 settlecl, in the 
 ight of fishing 
 )ple there were 
 Is, where there 
 in one-third of 
 ere prohibited 
 |ne close season 
 t law affected 
 [bly 75 miles of • 
 lavor of the law 
 retty loyal in 
 [ities in preserv- 
 , Government, in 
 prohibiting the 
 with nets, bey- 
 icted thousands 
 were similarly 
 Ihat I speak of. 
 best rivers we 
 ,ne of the worst, 
 
 because the effect of that prohibition was to 
 make everj'' resident of that river either a 
 poacher ov a sympathizer with poachers, so now 
 they have a system of signals along that river. 
 If there is an officer on the train, the engineer 
 will toot his whistle, so that they know ho is 
 coming alor.g ; and it is impossible almost to 
 catch a poacher, and the result is that the 
 salmon are practically destroyed in the river, so 
 that we must be careful in legislating that we 
 do not overdo the thing, and we must not man- 
 ufacture poachers. 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 I rise to withdraw the Resolution which L 
 introduced ; it has accomplished its purpose ; I 
 had no idea that it would be passed as it stood, 
 but it was presented to draw out just the dis- 
 cussion we have had. Now, the newspaper man, if 
 he would mold public opinion in any particular 
 direction, usually goes to the extreme. He uses 
 the strongest arguments he can ; he expresses- 
 himself much more strongly than he really 
 means, in order to bring the conservativ^e man: 
 around to a middle course ; so that when the 
 final vote is taken on anj'' question, the middle 
 ground will be the one that is adopted. It seems 
 to me that the substitute resolution presented 
 covers the ground which we desire to cover 
 here, and it is for that reason that I am ready 
 to withdraw my own resolution. Some States- 
 will have to prohibit the sale of game ; Vermont 
 
— 124 — 
 
 has already done so, to a large extent, nnd I 
 
 should ri-'jilize tliat up liere, where you hoA'e an 
 
 abundance of it, that wouhi V>e inipossihle. I 
 
 know we make recommendations in our Icgis- 
 
 hxture ; that is not all, we would like to have 
 
 tlu'U) put through ; but we do with what we 
 
 can u'et, and while I do not believe that it is 
 
 within the powers of tliis Convention to t^ke 
 
 ■any sucli position as that, I think they should 
 
 plant this right, where they believe the laws 
 
 • ought to be, because they are merely recom- 
 
 imending, advocating. On this question this 
 
 •iTiidtlle ground is probably the best. 
 
 :Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 I would lik-» to point out that the action of 
 our New-York friends is one of the greatest 
 things to save our small game, and by pi-ohi- 
 b ting the sale, they prevent a great deal of our 
 game being killed and shipped out to the States 
 under other names. The Dominion non-export 
 law of small game proliibits its being shipped 
 under its own name, and unquestionably, as 
 investigation has shown, a lot of it is shipped 
 out under other names, and there is a quantity 
 of trout, tons of it. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I quite sympathize with what some gentlemen 
 have said here about it being inadvisable to 
 prohibit a reasonable sale of the game by the 
 poorer natives, but I think something should be 
 done to scrutinise very carefully, in the case of 
 
125 — 
 
 it, nnd I 
 have an 
 sil.lo. I 
 ir Icgi^- 
 1 to have 
 what we 
 Lhnt it is 
 1 to take 
 .y shouUl 
 tho huvs 
 y recoin- 
 tiuu this 
 
 action of 
 > rri'eatest 
 by prohi- 
 eal of our 
 he States 
 |on-export 
 g shipped 
 nably, as 
 s shipped 
 quantity 
 
 rentleuien 
 'isable to 
 uo by the 
 1 should be 
 he case of 
 
 a shipment of deer from tho districts particu- 
 larly in the neighborliood of the large cities. I 
 sympathize very heartily with the poorer people 
 of this country For instance in my own lease we 
 permit the actual residents to kid 8 deer, because 
 we do not want to have any hardship shown > 
 but on the other hand, I think it is exceed- 
 ingly important that promiscuous killing by pot 
 hunters should be stopped. 
 
 A Speaker (Mr. Joncas) : — 
 
 What the honorable gentleman just said is 
 proof of the necessity of the coupon system 
 which is now prevailing in Ontario. We have 
 not this system in our province yet; but I hope 
 we will g' t it. By your licensed coupon system 
 tlie railway company is prevented from carrying 
 game, unless the coupon is attached to the 
 caicass. If a man who is entitled to kill one or 
 two moose, kills more than one or 2, he has no 
 means of transporting by his license, and I do 
 hope that this system will be adopted in all 
 provinces and in the States. 
 
 Mil. Smith : — 
 
 A remaik was dropped here that newspaper 
 men take things veiy strongly, and they t»ffer 
 the maximum of argument, in order to influence 
 those they desire. Of course we are very much 
 interested in the press, because we recognize it 
 perhaps as the greatest educator of public 
 sentiment in the country I think the newspaper 
 men or those coimccted with the newspaper, 
 
— 126 — 
 
 who have opinions are very careful in their 
 statements, and they will present their views to 
 influence those who have the authority and the 
 power to enact what they want ; and as a matter 
 of fact in our province, and I think in all our 
 provinces that education ha'- advanced so much 
 that it is not necessary to put things strongly, 
 that you rather appeal, by putting up middle 
 statements and argusnents, rather than tstrong 
 ones, because the average man views over such 
 a thing, or will take it just as quickly as you 
 would yourself. 
 
 Therefore it is rathei- an aspersion upon news- 
 paper men that they are given to stronger 
 languiige than is just, in presenting their 
 arguments. 
 
 In regard to the excessive killing of animals 
 I remember when our law was amended so as 
 to restrict the killing of cariboo to one, by a 
 person holding a license, a man who kills for 
 the market came into the town where I lived 
 and he had some meat for sale, aiKl I said : 
 " John, how many have you killed this year ? " 
 He said ; " Just one." When he said : " How 
 many can you kill now ? " I said ; " You can 
 only kill one." He said :" I wonder if you could 
 not write to the Surveyor-General." 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 Just to explain my position with regard to 
 the newspaper men. I meant to cast no asper- 
 sion on them certainly. To illustrate my point 
 
 
— 127 — 
 
 their 
 ;W9 to 
 id the 
 natter 
 lU our 
 
 much 
 
 ongly, 
 nifhlle 
 stronf^r 
 
 sr such 
 as you 
 
 \ news- 
 brongor 
 f their 
 
 minials 
 d so as 
 le, by a 
 vills for 
 I lived 
 I said : 
 year ? 
 " How 
 ou can 
 
 )U c 
 
 ould 
 
 ^gard to 
 
 jo asper- 
 
 ly point 
 
 I will say that to-day we have in the United 
 States two parties the imperialists, and the anti- 
 imperiaiists ; now, we who take the njiddlo 
 ground, who wish to retain the IMiilippines, t't.»r 
 instance, govern them until they can govern 
 themselves, our newspapers very frequently get 
 a little stronger ; we argue the question of ex- 
 pansion for all it is worth to bring around some 
 of the others to the middle ground ; when we 
 accomplish this object we are strong enough to 
 carry out what we believe is for the best inter- 
 ests of all. That is merely an illustration of 
 what I meant by the newspaper men trying to 
 mold public sentiment, to take the strongest 
 arguments that they could give, and I think 
 this Convention should make a stronor effort to- 
 wards gaining any point they can. 
 
 The Chairman : — 
 
 Tlie motion is this : " In view of the large 
 destruction of game caused by market or pot 
 hunters ; Resolved : That this Convention re- 
 commend the non-sale of game, or the restriction 
 of same as nmch as possible." 
 
 Mil. Cormier : — 
 
 In reference to cold storage or prohibition of 
 sale, our Quebec Government issues licenses to 
 non-residents, at S25.00. You can kill in z(»ne 
 No. 1, two moose, three cariboo and three deer, 
 and to residents we will issue a license to allow 
 them to kill 2 deer more, for $5.00. 
 
— 128 — 
 
 WImt are those people to do with it, if you 
 ]")iuliil)it tiio sale ? 
 
 Mi{. PAur.NT : — 
 
 'I 'h(! Motion snys " as niuch as possible." — 
 
 iMol ION CAKKli:i). 
 
 No. 20. 
 
 LKASINCi OF Hi;NTrX(i AND FISHING 
 TEKiai'OIilKS. 
 
 A SPKAKKIt : — 
 
 " Resolved : 'J'liat wliile tliis Association is not 
 prepMi-ed to unanimously recommend tlie al)oli- 
 tiou of leasino; tlshing territories, we are of the 
 opinion th>\t hunting; territories should not he 
 leased, hut that all wild Innds should he open to 
 hunters during the proper seasons ; those dtjJe- 
 o-ates who>-e juovinces provide for licenses io 
 non-residents make that a reservation."— Motion 
 
 SECONDED BY Mil. UsSHER. 
 A Sl'EAKFR: — 
 
 Tn making" lha(, motion 1 would like to sny a 
 fi'W words ; ihat is meant for harren countries, 
 l»ut I helieve \>y leserving such lands as that, 
 that we could increase game to a great extent, 
 in that particular country ; hut you will see 
 embodied in this motion here that there are two 
 ditterent definitions, that is allowing all hunters 
 to shoot in territories open to all, any wiM lands, 
 but in barren countries, such as we have in 
 
- 129 — 
 
 if you 
 
 lo. — 
 
 RUING 
 
 ion is not 
 ,he a^ioli- 
 tre of tlio 
 
 (1 not l>o 
 e open to 
 lose dcle- 
 conses i>o 
 
 ^e to sny a 
 countries, 
 |ls a5 that, 
 loat extent. 
 In will see 
 »re are two 
 lall hunters 
 NviM lands, 
 'e have iu 
 
 Curmda, hutidreds (»f square miles. I tliink they 
 ou^^ht to 1)0 reserved in many ways, because the 
 lands at the \)Vv>^< nt datf have accumulated 
 animals ; these ;inim ds will miifnite to other 
 countries, and tlioy should be protected. 
 
 Mr. Joxoas : — 
 
 1 have carefully read the Resolution whicii is 
 put before you," and 1 must sny that I cannot 
 agree with it. It woubl go t(» put aside the 
 whole systeui th'it we have adopted in the ])rov- 
 ince of Quebec fov years gone by. N(av, this 
 system, in my opinion has proved to be a good 
 one, I am not speaking from the {)oint of view 
 of revenue, although it is beginning to be (juftu 
 a levenue ; but outside of the revenue, which 
 tflie province gets from it, we have this advan- 
 tage : if you rent 10 or 15 or 20 square miles of 
 hunting territories to one club or individual, 
 this indivi<]ual is doing the work of the prov- 
 ince, and the work which we all want to be 
 done very well, the work of protection. A man 
 who leases 15 miles of hunting territory, spends 
 apart from the sum which he has given for it, 
 spends from 5 to or 7 hundred, a thousand. 
 Si, 200.00, to guard this territory carefully and 
 jealously ; so I woulil not be in favor of leasing 
 the whole of your wild land, but lease as mucli 
 as you could of it, and liave men who will care- 
 fully protect the territory. So what we are 
 tryiug to get is the protection of the game. 
 
— 130 
 
 !! I i I 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman: — I missed the sense of that 
 Resolution, when it was read ; I ask that the 
 Chairman might read it. 
 
 The Chairman reads motion. " Moved by 
 Mr. McCombie ; seconded by Mr. Ussher : ' Re- 
 solved : Thdt wliile this Association is not pre- 
 pared to unanimously recommend the abolition 
 of leasing fishing territories, we are of the 
 opinion that hunting terj itories should not be 
 leased, but that all wild lands should be open to 
 hunters during the proper seasons. Those dele- 
 gates whose provinces provide for licenses to 
 von-residents, make that a reservation." 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I find that this would be a most radical mea- 
 sure. Certainly I do not think a member here 
 would sincerely subscribe to it in its present 
 form ; as a matter of fact even in the States it 
 is becoming absolutely necessary in order to 
 have any game there at all, for gentlemen to 
 take up reserves, and to restock them ; that is 
 the only shooting we have got left in the St* tes. 
 Now you cannot make fish of one, and flesh of 
 another. This speaks of hunting privileges; 
 that must apply to fishing privileges ; there- 
 fore you take a man who spends thousands of 
 dollars on a river, and his lease runs out, it is 
 hardly to be expected that that would be thrown 
 0})en to the public ; and you can see where we 
 
 bj 
 ei 
 of 
 it] 
 
 A 
 
 col 
 ]a[ 
 as 
 
— 131 
 
 of thftt 
 ihat the 
 
 OVED by 
 er : ^' Re- 
 not pve- 
 aboUtion 
 e of the 
 Id not be 
 1)6 open to 
 'hose dele- 
 licenses to 
 
 n. 
 
 dical mea- 
 mber here 
 its present 
 |ie States it 
 [n order to 
 ntlemen to 
 .m; that is 
 the Stf tes. 
 Ln<l flesh of 
 privilefxes ; 
 
 Ues ; there- 
 Ihousands of 
 
 lis out, it IS 
 lid be thrown 
 
 e where we 
 
 would all be. We would have verj'^ little inter- 
 est in coming to Canada, in a short time. 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 I confess tha*-; I am considerably opposed to 
 this Resolution. We find in the administration 
 of the laws in regard to fish and game that we 
 have no trouble whatever with those. The priv- 
 ileges we have are the best privileges for the 
 preservation of fish and game ; on the other 
 hand, we find a class who are forever abusing 
 the Government for adopting the system of 
 leasing ; but those who are doing that are the 
 people who are doing their best to destroy all 
 the fish in the country, but I would rather feed 
 like encouraging the leasing of privileges than 
 to abolish them. 
 
 Mr. Parker : — 
 
 As a representative of 4 or 5 clubs in the 
 St. Maurice territory, wnth a membership of 400 
 or 500, I oppose this Resolution tooth and nail. 
 The Laurentian Club, those last 10 years, has 
 been spending about $15,000.00 a year ; a consid- 
 erable portion of that goes into the protection 
 of fibh and game in the country, and I object to 
 it. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — I think there is a middle 
 course here. I am as strongly opposed ns the 
 last speaker to leases of any kind, ns strongly 
 as he is in favor of that. The mid lie ground 
 
— 132 — 
 
 ■H I 
 
 '! ;! ' I 
 
 would be to me in the Motion tliat is before you 
 now, that people who invest a certain amount 
 of money should have a very small piece of 
 land ; but they should not own immense tracts 
 of land ; 25, 30 or 50 miles s^jiuare will be owned 
 by a very few ; now thus that affect the revenue 
 of the country. In the first place these men have 
 n large amount of influence; a very large majority 
 of these people travel on railways; you will say 
 I am selfish there. I will show you how 98% 
 or 9-i% of that goes to the people ; it goes to 
 ^vages, supplies and expenditure in the country, 
 :•':) that the countiy benefits very largely by it. 
 I know this to obtain in several cases of clubs 
 where a very small percentage of the people 
 pay their railway fares ; therefore the country 
 obtains very little benefit from them, and when 
 I hear a government official say of the great 
 good that is done by the constables and others 
 employed by the club, I think that government 
 t flicial does not do his duty, for the country 
 should protect game, and that is what we 
 arc working for here, and the middle grounrl that 
 J would suggest would be that the individual 
 v\' a number of individuals should have a small 
 extent of territory in fee simple so that they 
 may build their buildings there and enjoy a 
 liome which is desirable. But if the great pri- 
 vileges which we have ai'e but into very large 
 tracts of land owned by individuals, we are 
 ruinina' our country. 
 
— 133 — 
 
 3re you 
 imonnt 
 
 (iece of 
 
 ) tracts 
 
 e own eel 
 
 revenue 
 
 len have 
 
 inajority 
 
 will say 
 
 low 93% 
 
 t n;oes to 
 country, 
 
 ely by it. 
 
 s o£ clubs 
 
 he people 
 
 e country 
 
 and when 
 the great 
 
 ,nd others 
 ivernnient 
 le country 
 what we 
 round that 
 imlividual 
 ,ve a small 
 that they 
 nd enjoy a 
 great pri- 
 very laro'e 
 ,1s, we are 
 
 Mil. JoNCAS: — 
 
 Tlie Government official of Quebec, who has 
 expressed the opinion a while ngo tliat he 
 thouglit the leasini,'' of fishing and hunting te;'- 
 ritories was a good thing, if not doing his duty, 
 was at least sincere. 
 
 The province of Quebec h is an immense ter- 
 ritory ; it is next to impossible to protect it 
 efRclentl}'", unless you hav(3 an army to watch 
 it, and 1 say this, that the leading of hunting 
 and fishing territories in our province has done 
 more fi.>r protection than an a; my of constables. 
 My friend from Boston has taken one river in 
 Oaspe ; when he took that river it had been 
 destroyed by poachers ; he has taken it. Now, 
 that is one of the best rivers that we have in 
 Gaspe. Take the rivers of the south shore ; 
 they .are leased. What is the result ? Not only 
 that we h.Ave go )d lly fi-diing, but a commerce, 
 an industry of salmon, which gives millions to 
 our province every year, and more salmon will 
 have to spawn in the rivers, and I say, in tlie 
 leasinof of huntinfj and tishino' territories there 
 miixht be somethiufj in what Mr. Aimstronjx 
 says that they sliould not be leased extensively ; 
 but I say that if we lease one portion of our 
 territory, we are doing a good thing, placing 
 m3''self al wa3^s in the point of view of protection ; 
 we are here to devise the best means to protect 
 our fish. 
 
— 134 — 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I wish to ask the gentleman who spoke before 
 the hist speaker just this one (juestion. I wish 
 to ask him if he believes fiom his knowledge 
 of men and things that were his theory' carried 
 out, that there would be one salmon left in the 
 rivers of Canada in 10 years. I believe there 
 would not be one salmon left. Now, I will give 
 you my grounds for that statement. Along in 
 the early seventies, the St John River was a 
 g )od river ; it was called a first-rate river ; many 
 fi-di were taken there ; it was turned over to an 
 official, a good fel ow, but hi-! heart was la^-ge ; 
 after his day's fishing was over he let the natives 
 come in anii fish ; he would give a day to this 
 man, and to that man, and to the other man, 
 after ho was gone from the river. In 3 years 
 the river was left without anything in it. In 
 the year 1890, seven salmon were taken with 
 about 8 weeks' hard fishing ; but I do not 
 believe there were 7 left in there. By very 
 hard fishing, I think we caught about 8 ; I think 
 thoy cost us $50.00 a pound, and we did not 
 take more than 8. Now, from that time on, we 
 begin, and we p»ut 3 guardians on ; we oflfered 
 a big reward ; we spent hundreds and liundreds 
 of dollars opening the channel. I may say that 
 we have spent 830,0;)0.00 in bringing that river 
 along ; I do not mean spending to improve the 
 river ; but I mean we have left in the Dominion 
 of Canada just about ihe sum of thirty thousand 
 
— 135 — 
 
 e before 
 I wish 
 lowleuge 
 ■ carried 
 ft in the 
 ;ve there 
 will give 
 Along in 
 er was a 
 er ; many 
 ver to an 
 as la^'ge ; 
 le natives 
 ay to this 
 ther man, 
 n 3 years 
 in it. In 
 iken with 
 
 I do not 
 By very 
 
 8; I think 
 e did not 
 ime on, we 
 we offered 
 ] 1\ and reds 
 \y say that 
 that river 
 
 II prove the 
 Dominion 
 
 y thousand 
 
 dollars in those ten years ; but it is one of the 
 best rivers in Canada to-day. 
 
 Xow, we want to hand it down when we are 
 done with it, a tirst-class river. Now, I only 
 offer this as one illuKtration of what a lessee or 
 a set of lessees will do, and I believe and I know 
 that this is not an isolated case at all ; it is the 
 actual condition of all such lease'l rivers ; and 
 if it is the condition of leased rivers, I say it is 
 also the condition of leased territory. 
 
 A Speakkr : — 
 
 I think Mr. Oak, distinctly told us yesterday 
 that in the state of Bklaine there were no land 
 leases, except to a small extent, small lots or no 
 rivers leased to a very large extent. He said, 
 at the present da\'^ they have only 10 wardens 
 protecting the whole state of Maine, salaried 
 officials. This gentleman who spoke before, 
 claimed that by the leasing of this land, they 
 are protecting the fish ami the game on their 
 lease ; that may be so, but I can assure you, as 
 a fact, knowing it too, that those gentlemen who 
 lease so much land in Canada, over a gieat deal 
 of it too, are those gentlemen themselves who 
 have to take out fishint:f and cranie licenses to 
 go into another region to fish and shoot ; and I 
 can prov^e it, in many instances. There is not a 
 year in the last 3 or I years that gentlemen who 
 owned fishing land right here in Canada, say 
 that they would never ajirain belong to that club, 
 if they knew what they had to contend with. 
 
1' 
 
 136 — 
 
 m 
 
 Now, why should these few gentlemen be priv- 
 ileged, when we can get hundreds and thousunds 
 of sportsmen from all over the world to come 
 into Cnnada and bring a larger revenue than 
 all the flubs put together to-day would bring. 
 And our state and our territories ought to be 
 protected by the Government, by the people, if 
 ten wardens in Maine can protect the whole 
 stat(; of Maine. 
 
 Mil. Wilson : — 
 
 I woifld like to reply to the remarks of some 
 of our Canadian friends : First, concerning rich 
 men's clubs of Canadn, resident in the United 
 States. I belontr to a small club, 145 members. 
 With the exception of an occasional station agent 
 on the Vermont Central Railway, and an occa- 
 sional United States offical I have never seen 
 any (»f the members of our club ride on a ])ass. 
 
 Wc start from the City of New York, the 
 City of Hartford and New Haven, and from 
 Boston, and we pay our railroad fare ; if we have 
 the money, we ride in drawing room cars ; but 
 from the time we leave our homes, until v/e get 
 back, W" p \y for every dollar's worth of benetifc 
 we receive. 
 
 I want to speak a moment concerning' the 
 results of leases to th-} citizens of the United 
 States, club membeis of Canadian clubs. 
 
 One member of the St Bernard club has gone 
 a little way from our lower clubhouse, and built 
 a clubhouse costing about $100,000.00. He has 
 
— 137 
 
 I be priv* 
 .housaiids 
 1 to come 
 jnvie than 
 lid bring, 
 o-hfc to be 
 people, it' 
 the whole 
 
 ks of some 
 irniiig rich 
 the United 
 5 inenibei-3. 
 nation agent 
 nd an occa- 
 never seen 
 5 on a ])ass. 
 
 York, tlie 
 
 and from 
 
 if we have 
 
 n cars ; V)ut 
 
 mtil we get 
 
 1 of benetib 
 
 ccrnina; the 
 the United 
 ubs. 
 
 ub has gone 
 se, and V.uilt 
 00. He has 
 
 put in front of that cUihhouse a fish hatcho^y 
 and annually he puts into the waters contic^uou.s 
 to his clubhouse thousands and thousands of 
 trout fry. I want to say furblier that the 
 St. Bernard club open up territory in one ct:) nity 
 on that line where you never had a resident be- 
 fore the club leased the property, and we to-day 
 draw from the Canadian Government a rebate 
 of taxes, because we are the tirst to settle there. 
 
 Now, my friends, ar^ you not rubbing it in ? 
 You have a law here in the province of Quebec 
 which says that an honorary member of the 
 St. Bernard, or any other club shall nob go upon 
 the club property, unit ss he ])ays a tax of SIO.OO 
 for fishing, and a tax of $25.00 for shooting 
 purposes. A little more, you say that if we 
 want to bring a deer or a cariboo, or a moose off 
 our own property, that we leased from the 
 Canadian Government, that we shall pay S2.00 
 f(jr a tag, that we can get it into the United 
 States 
 
 Now, further, two years Mgo, one of the oldest 
 Sfuides in our club made this statement that be- 
 fore a member of the club had ever been on the 
 proppsrty, that 700 pounds of trout wore taken 
 out of our best lake, taken on the river, to the 
 river towns, and sold for ten cents a pound. 
 Aren't you rubbing it in. Aren't you putting 
 it on to us a little thick. It seems to me from 
 my standpoint that you are. 
 
 M(jved by Dii. BiilssoN : seconded by Mii. 
 Armstrong ; 
 
— 138 — 
 
 " That the object of this Convention is also 
 to make more accessible to sportsmen either of 
 this country, or of any other country, the nu- 
 merous fishing and shooting territories of this 
 Province. It is, therefore, moved that it would 
 be desirable to have on sale by the Department 
 of Lauds and Fisheries, lots of from ^ to 10 
 acres, ordering ordinary conditions, except land 
 clearing. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I think I can explain the sense of that motion. 
 Here I will say that the very last thing I wanted 
 in the world was to reflect on any sportsman 
 from the United States coming over here and 
 getting all the privileges he can. I have trav- 
 elled a i.Ule and I learned to know what sort 
 of men they were. Most of my time, I think, a 
 large portion of it is spent in the United States, 
 anil I want them to have just as many privi- 
 leges as the law allow ; but at the same time, I 
 want to curtail these privileges, if I can. I 
 want to pay right here a compliment to the 
 United States and more especially to the people 
 of Maine, to follow them as closely as possible. 
 I think they are working admirably,but perhaps 
 they have gone a little too far for the present 
 state of public opinion in Canada. Therefore 
 Dr. Brisson's motion is pertinent. But I know 
 of a lake where my friend over there will get 
 all the fishing he wants, until his arms are tired. 
 But I want to be able iu the Province of Ontario 
 
 u 
 cl 
 ui 
 
 01 
 C( 
 
— 139 — 
 
 n is also 
 either of 
 , the nu- 
 es of this 
 ; it would 
 •partment 
 n ^ to 10 
 Lcept land 
 
 at motion, 
 cf I wanted 
 sportsman 
 sr here and 
 have trav- 
 
 what sort 
 , I think, a 
 ted States, 
 nany privi- 
 ime time, I 
 if I can. I 
 ment to the 
 o the people 
 
 as possible, 
 but perhaps 
 
 the present 
 Therefore 
 But 1 know 
 lere will get 
 ms are tired. 
 ce of Ontario 
 
 to tell my friends from the United States : 
 " You cannot get a tract of land ; but I think 
 the Government can be induced to sell you one 
 or 2 or 5 acres, where you can put your home, 
 where the ladies of your parties can go and 
 where they will be more comfortable than in a 
 tent. 
 
 To-day if a man goes back to a really good 
 fishing lake, he would like to put up a good 
 habitat. He is told : " No, you cannot." Now, I 
 would recommend that that individual should 
 be able to buy from 1 to 10 acres of land, or 
 whatever would Le considered necessary, and 
 hold that in fee simple, but he would not have 
 all the sole hunting and fishing privileges, even 
 on that piece of land, nor could he prevent a 
 man in stress of weather, landing there. I do 
 not want legislation giving men exclusive pri- 
 vileges, any way. 
 
 A Speaker : 
 
 The gentleman who sits on my right here may 
 have been misinformed in relation to the status 
 in the state of Maine ; he speaks of everything 
 being open, and their being practically no limit. 
 
 I wish to state that one club control more land 
 in the northern portion of Maine than any other 
 club in Canada. The Megantic club owns miles 
 upon miles in Northern Maine. Now, that is 
 one ; there are probably 50 more clubs, each 
 controlling very large territories. 
 
 X simply say that to correct a statement, and 
 
• hi 
 
 uo — 
 
 !i: i.'ii 
 
 ''T 
 
 also I wish to add tlmt altliough the stite of 
 Maine coiiimissionur iiicntionod here tlie very 
 smal] luiinber of guMiwlians tlu-y employ, these 
 clubs employ hundreds of hrst class gunrdians. 
 
 Mil. Smith :— 
 
 I want to be very l)rief. I might say, sir, for 
 tie information of the gentlemen lure, who do 
 not seem to realize that there are many laws to 
 meet their views, except in the state of Maine, 
 tliat in the neighboring province of New Bi uns- 
 wick we have laws which aie similar to these. 
 
 We have adopted the pi'inciple, in New Bruns- 
 wick, in the inteies's of the public, where we 
 lease certain rivers, where in the estimation of 
 the Government, it is considered advisable to <'o 
 so Rivers that are accessible to centres are 
 leased, so that the puljlic are protected in that 
 wav. 
 
 t.' 
 
 There was a remnrk that was dropped now, 
 in regard to the leasing We are so jea'ous in 
 protecting the public lights that w^ben the Crown 
 sells lands now, it will not sell to within 4 rods 
 of the sh:)re. No man can buy the shore of any 
 ri\ er or any lan<i where fisheries are ; that has 
 been the policy in our province for, I think, 
 10 years or more ; so that I think the public are 
 protecte<l there. But there are certain large 
 rivei-s, notably the Restigouche, and I might soy 
 to the man who tells me here to-day he cannot 
 fish on the Restigouch(>, I say he can, so that 
 the river is not exclusively closed, but we have 
 
— 141 — 
 
 st'^te ot* 
 he very 
 ^y, these 
 ini-dians. 
 
 y, sir, for 
 >, who do 
 y laws to 
 of Maine, 
 w Biuns- 
 () those. 
 }W Bruiis- 
 whero we 
 mat ion of 
 able to <'o 
 »ntres are 
 h\ in that 
 
 pp(l nov7, 
 oa'oiis in 
 blie Crown 
 un 4 rods 
 Dva of any 
 tlint has 
 I think, 
 puhlic are 
 •tain large 
 might say 
 he cannot 
 an, ?o that 
 it we have 
 
 found this than in those vahiahle rivers, on 
 account of i<oaching, that not only is the angl- 
 ing hei'g destroyed, hut coiiniiercial tithing was 
 being destrt)yed entiiely up the river ; and we 
 found the Province cannot afford it ; we have to 
 get a revenue ; tJiat river alone brings us in 
 $4,000.00 in rentals, and iliere are 2(1 guardians 
 maintaiu'ed on it, and the fact i^ that the salmon 
 are inci'eabing theie, and the clul) restricts' the 
 catching of salmon to 8 fish per day, and it is 
 religiously observed ; so that down in our |)rov- 
 inc? 1 think we meet tliL'se requiionivnts j)i-etty 
 Well, but we do though want to protect the 
 public from themselves. 
 
 A Speakeu : — 
 
 I would like to ask what public sentiment is, 
 on this question. 
 
 A Speaker ; — 
 
 The public sentiment on the Restigouclie is 
 in favor of this on the parts that are lease*!. I 
 know (me case in whi. h a farmer was paid 
 i?15,000.00 for his fai-m. The purchaser, a 
 mend)er of the Restigouche Club, said : I do 
 not want to disturb you ; .stay right where you 
 are ; that man died, and in that man's will i'l^ 
 gnve the farm back to the man. In the employ- 
 ment of guides every nnui that is tit to be a 
 guiile or a guardian is eir.jdoyed along that 
 river, and they made a great deal more monc}- 
 out of it than they did out of their poacliing husi- 
 
_ 142 — 
 
 ness, so that it is leally a positive benefit to the 
 comitry.— Motion Carried. 
 
 Move(] hy Mh. Porter ; seconded by Mr. 
 Cormier : 
 
 " Resolve:! that in the sense of this i iiig, 
 the best interests of the country would be served 
 by leasing only a portion of the barren territory, 
 and by leaving open a considorab'e part of the 
 territory to sportsmen shooting and lishing 
 under proper restrictions and licenses. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman and gentlemen : — It seems to 
 me that the Resolution in that form answers at 
 least many of the objections that hav^ been 
 offered by those who think that the vsing 
 system is an exclusive privilege, or an b-v...isive 
 arrangement for the benefit of the rich, or com- 
 paratively rich. For my part, I fail to consider 
 that point very well taken, for I think that the 
 Canadian, or at least the people in this p)'.)vince 
 benefit — the natives, the habitant, gets as much, 
 if not more thati they do — those who have been 
 so fortunate as to get a lease. I have known 
 of quite a number of cases where all the people, 
 With the exception of one or two market hunters, 
 w^ho benefitted by the granting of leases, wliether 
 they be from the Canadian cities, or the Uitited 
 States has nothing to do with it ; every one 
 seems to be benefitted, with the exception, as I 
 say, of the market hunter. 
 
 It seems to me it might be advantageous if 
 
— 143 — 
 
 icfit to the 
 
 a l»y Mr. 
 
 is \ iiig, 
 (\ be served 
 n territory, 
 part of the 
 md lisliing 
 
 33. 
 
 It seems to 
 1 answers at 
 hav'^ been 
 the 'sing 
 m b-v .asive 
 ich, or corn- 
 to consider 
 ink til at the 
 \is p)')vince 
 rets as much, 
 10 h:ivc been 
 lave known 
 1 the })(M)pie, 
 ket hunters, 
 ises, whether 
 r theXTivited 
 every one 
 ception, as I 
 
 'antageous 
 
 if 
 
 the Government wouhl reserve further, say 
 reserve 50 per cent of the territoiy, and would 
 refus*; to lease nfter a certain percentage had 
 been leased, keeping that territory open to the 
 people of the district and any others who might 
 wish to shoot. 
 
 There was an objection offered by one gentle- 
 man that if he started after a moose, and it ran 
 on to leased territory, what was he to do about 
 it. It does happen, but not frequently that C)ne 
 starts on the huiit, — if he starts with intelli- 
 gence or at any reasonable distance from the 
 edge of the lease, he is not liable to fetch upon 
 leased territory. 
 
 It seems to me that by using [)ropor judg- 
 ment we would easily be able to divide our 
 territory between leased and free land, and by 
 charging a proper fee on the fn>e land would be 
 able to support a better class of constables, and 
 perhaps the arrangement would be for the 
 benefit of all concerned. 
 
 Mr. Joncas : — 
 
 The resolution now before you is a good one, 
 and what we are domg in the Province of Quebec 
 is this, we are reserving a certain amount of 
 territory which is open to all those who want 
 to go hunting and lishing. 
 
 We have, for instance, what we call the Lau- 
 rentides Park, which covers about 2| millions 
 of acres. This is open to every body who wants 
 to go hunting and fishing there. 
 
 2 
 
-^p^rmmmnm* 
 
 M-s^' 
 
 — 144 — 
 
 Now, where in the system of leasing hunting 
 and fishing territories, is the privilege broader 
 as I said a while ago ; but we are still looking 
 ahead ; we are not at all disposed to lense all 
 the hunting or fishing territories tlnvt we have ; 
 we have tliem reserved ; we have another one 
 in Montreal District, a part of Mont Tremblant, 
 it is the intention I think of the Government, 
 to reserve one within the Temiscouata Dintrict, 
 All tfiese reserves will be open to the pub'ic, 
 and I do think that the Motion before yon is a 
 very good one, and I am in favor of it. 
 
 No. 21. 
 
 ENCOURAGING THH: FORMATION OF 
 
 FISH AND GAME PROTECTION 
 
 CLUBS. 
 
 Mr. Stearns :— 
 
 I presume tnis proposition will be agreeable, 
 therefore I propose it simply as a matter of 
 form. However I will read the resolution which 
 has been placed in my hands. 
 
 " Be it Resolved that we believe that the 
 formation of tish and game protection associ- 
 ations is a very desirable feature, with enforce- 
 ment of iisli and game laws. Therefore we 
 recommend the same to the Governments of 
 respective states and provinces that every en- 
 couriigement be given to the formation of such 
 clubs." 
 
— 145 
 
 unting 
 jroader 
 ooking 
 ease all 
 chave ; 
 hv.r one 
 mblant, 
 rnnient, 
 District. 
 3 pubMc, 
 you is a 
 
 ON OF 
 
 >j 
 
 0?n" 
 
 .crreeable, 
 natter o£ 
 on which 
 
 that the 
 n associ- 
 enforce- 
 ■efore we 
 ments of 
 ^very en- 
 of such 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — I will not take up your 
 time ; I will only say that we, here in tlio Prov- 
 ince of Quebec, more especially in the City of 
 Montreal, and about here I found that the Fish 
 And Game Club has, on many occasions, even 
 been called upon by the Government, to do not 
 only missionary work, but some other disfirrree- 
 able work for them, that they did not want to 
 do themselves ; and therefore I consider in many 
 respects — I will not worry you by any IrngMiy 
 description — yon all probably know the benefits 
 itluit have fallen from this Association . I tbink 
 Ithore can be on'.y one wny of looking p.t this, 
 and tlierefore I have ranch pleasure in (iib/:ring 
 Ithis R<\sohition. 
 
 Kesolutlon seconded by Du. Drummond. 
 
 |Mii Joxcas : - 
 
 Bif.)re this motion is put, I.th'nk I will t!\ke 
 d vantage of this occasion to sny that the Gov- 
 Timient of this Province appreciates th*' work 
 [vhich I might call a work of love, which the 
 'ish and Game Protection Association, of Mon- 
 real, is doincr. The Fish and Game Protection 
 issociation of Montreal and its members are 
 [utting such of their time and much of their 
 Inergy into the protection of our game and Hsh^ 
 |nd as far as I have been able to ascertain, and 
 
 have ascertained that they are doing a very 
 |uod work indeed, and I do hope that a«soci- 
 
 tions like the one they have in Montreal would 
 
 rganize in some other districts. I wish we 
 
— 146 — 
 
 had one in Quebec and one in Three Rivers, be- 
 cause they are doing more for the protection of 
 game and fish than the Oovernment itself could 
 do, for this reason that they choose their waters ; 
 they can sue the men who are violating the law ; 
 they do not care if he is a Conservative, or a 
 Liberal, a blue or a red, he is a viola ter of the 
 law ; they sue him. Well, sometimes the Gov- 
 ernment cannot do that. It " for that reason i 
 that I wish, and I sincerely iiope that an associ- 
 ation of that kind would organize in some other] 
 part of the Province. 
 
 No. 22. 
 TRANSPORTATION AND SALE OF GAMEI 
 
 A Speaker; — 
 
 I would like to make one remark on thai 
 subject, especially on the question of sale. 
 
 I am not a hunter, therefore my remarks wil 
 be applied to the fishing question, but I claiii 
 to be an angler, and since I was old enough til 
 know better, I have never bought in the marke 
 a black bass or a trout or any species of gam 
 fish. Now, that perhaps might be not altogethe 
 unselfish. In the first place you cannot buy i 
 the market black bass that is fit to eat, and th 
 same would apply to trout, and I would be verj 
 much in favor of making these remarks drai 
 ooit any such sentiment, if there is any su< 
 among the sportsmen here — laws which woull 
 
 the 
 elosi 
 
 M 
 
 pro^ 
 luuii 
 lan( 
 
Rivers, be- 
 •otection of 
 itself could 
 Lei r waters; 
 ng the law ; 
 vative, or a 
 later of the 
 is the Gov- 
 that reason 
 at an associ- 
 n some other 
 
 E OF GAME 
 
 lark on thai] 
 of sale. 
 
 remarks wilj 
 1, but I claiii 
 old enough ii 
 lin the markej 
 ^ecies of gam 
 lot altogethe 
 ;annot buy ij 
 ;o eat, and tli 
 Iwould be veij 
 remarks drai 
 is any su( 
 which woull 
 
 — 147 — 
 
 prohibit placing on the market all fish which 
 are regarded as game fish Make it an absolute 
 execution, if that could be done, and a large 
 portion of the poachers seeing that they could 
 not find a market for the back bass that he 
 nets, or the trout that he dynamites, would 
 undoubtedly discontinue this practice. 
 
 I would be in favor of such a law, and I 
 would like to hear the views of the other gent- 
 lemen here. 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 The last gentleman, while I admire his consis- 
 tency, I think there are a good many here, who 
 differ from him. 
 
 Now, while I thijik it would be proper to 
 prohibit the sale of certain game birds and 
 fishes, there are some we could dispense with, 
 but some you could not. Take the salmon, for 
 instance, it is a commercial fish as well as a 
 sporting fish. I would prefer going in the 
 market for my salmon, at any rate, or for black 
 bass or striped bass. 
 
 Mr, Ussher : — 
 
 I would like to have discussed at the meetings 
 the advantages or disadvantages of a continuous 
 close season. 
 
 My object in pressing this is this. You take 
 
 [Provinces like Ontario and Quebec, with many 
 
 jliundreds of thousands of square miles of wild 
 
 lands, and I would like to hive the sense of the 
 
— 148 — 
 
 i I 
 
 meeting as to whether it is a wise thing tu close 
 up the season for moose through an entire pro- 
 vince where there is only a fringe of settlement. 
 You take the Province of Quebec ; it is certainly 
 an illustration of that. I inijiht allude in this 
 praticularly to the province of Ontario's con- 
 tinuous close season for mooso and caribou, just 
 about ended. I think there is a good deal to be 
 said on that subject, and I should certainly like 
 to have some opinion on it. 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — I was simply going to give 
 the experience of Vermont on some of these 
 questions, and I will prefnce my remarks with 
 just a word in connection with what a angler 
 opposite me remarked with reference to ins- 
 pecting the sale of game fish ; that is a secondary 
 question ; we have to meet the fixed community 
 
 Now, in Vermont, we want a law to prohibit 
 the sale of trout in the open market. We now 
 prohibit the sale of grouse. If a man who is 
 unable to hunt wants grouse, he can send his 
 hired man out on his place, and shoot grouse 
 We should be perfectly willing to have a mai 
 who has means to send his employee out t 
 catch trout, but we do not want them in th 
 open market, and it would be very proper 
 perhaps, in that resolution that has ahead}] 
 been passed, it would have been pioper if it ha 
 been added — every game fish. 
 
 Now, the continuous close season on game ha 
 
 out 
 
 toi* 
 
 far 
 
 bor 
 
 lieri 
 
 wa.'> 
 
 din 
 
 ous 
 
 'frou 
 
 r 
 
 losi 
 list 
 low 
 iav( 
 he 
 
— 149 — 
 
 ing to close 
 entire pi'O- 
 settleuient. 
 is certainly 
 lude in this 
 :itano's con- 
 caribou,. just 
 )d (leal to be 
 ntainly like 
 
 been brought up. Our deer in Vermont, as I 
 stated yesterday, became extinct. We did not 
 have any, and we bought a few, and introduced 
 them in the state for that purpose, and we put 
 a close season for 5 years, and then we added 
 5 years more, and then we added another 5, and 
 then finally we protected those deer for 18 years. 
 In the State of Maine, in some counties where 
 they have good hunting torday, the deer had 
 become practically extinct, and as a result they 
 now have regular open seasons for certain time.", 
 and they can get deer hunting. It seems to me 
 that that somes is in connection with what the 
 gentleman has proposed. 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 My object in asking this question especially 
 in reference to Ontario, is that last year I went 
 out hunting, and to get into the Quebec terri- 
 tory, I went through a part of Ontario. The 
 
 farmer at whose house I stayed was right on the 
 cet. We i^owi |^^j,jgj, . ^j^^ j^^ gg^y ^Q j^^g . « J i5-iiig(j jj^ ijjjg moose 
 
 a man who isL ^^.^ last year." That was illegal. Now that 
 can send bisl^^^^^ only one of many stories I have either heard 
 shoot g^'o^^^^ldirect or indirect ; it has come to me from vari- 
 o have a uiaiiiQ^g sources, and I do not believe — my friend 
 nployee out t Jf^.^^^^ Ontario to the contrary — that the settler 
 it them in tUeiQ^. ^j^^ Indian has been inactive during that 
 very P^'^P^^Iclose season of 5 or 6 years. In fact I know by 
 has ali'^^^^^^lust such evidences as that, that he is not. Now, 
 |ioper if itha*^^^ ^^^ y^^ gentlemen know — what wardens 
 liave you had, what men have you had through 
 In on game hafthe wild lands of the C. P. K, north of the C 
 
 going to give 
 jme of these 
 remarks with 
 Lvhat a angler 
 rence to ins- 
 
 s a secondary 
 id community. 
 
 w to prohibit' 
 
— 160 — 
 
 P. R., through that tremendous section of terri- 
 tory, by which you can give me such a state- 
 ment, or you can give this meeting such a state- 
 ment, that you know that they have increased 
 so tremendously ? Where is your evi<]ence ? 
 What is it based upon ? It is only hearsay ? 
 Have you only this fringe of say 5 or 10 miles 
 on each side of the railway track ? 
 
 Why should you have a continuous close 
 season for moose, we will say ? Take Quebec 
 as an example. Through this section, supposing 
 game were decreased, and apply it also to this 
 section away down here probably 500 or 1,000 
 miles (indicating on the map) — if your moose 
 are decreasing here, why do you say in this 
 section here tht^y are also decreasing ? It is the 
 same thing exactly for Ontario. You take a 
 certain district near the lailway, possibly you 
 might find the moose are decreasing ; but it does 
 not necessarily follow that in 50 miles away 
 from the tra^^ks that they are, and you can go 
 hundreds of miles away from the track, go to 
 absolutely wild land, and you certainly cannot 
 apply the same set of conditions there, or you 
 should not, as apply in a civilized portion. 
 A Speaker :— 
 
 In reply to this gentleman I would say that I 
 there is no question that there has been a greati 
 deal of illegal shooting, but I might say when Ij 
 am talking about them increasing, I am not! 
 speaking from hearsay, but from what I have! 
 seen myself. 
 
— 151 ^ 
 
 n of terri- 
 ch a state- 
 tch a state- 
 5 increased 
 evidence ? 
 r hearsay ? 
 or 10 miles 
 
 mous close 
 ake Quebec 
 1, supposing 
 also to this 
 SCO or 1,000 
 f your moose 
 say in this 
 ? It is the 
 You take a 
 possibly you 
 ; but it does 
 miles away 
 you can go 
 track, go to 
 ,ainly cannot | 
 ,here, or you | 
 [portion. 
 
 |uld say that I 
 J been a great I 
 It say when II 
 Ig, I am not! 
 [what I havel 
 
 My business is such that it takes me cons- 
 tantly through the moose country, more or less, 
 for 7 years, and I have been occupied in that, 
 now, for upwards of 30 years, and I do find 
 that notwithstanding the number of moose 
 that have been killed every year illegally, they 
 are increasing largely in number. 
 
 With regard to the Hudson Bay Company, I 
 may say they are not like the other people ; 
 wherever you see them prevail, the animals do 
 not decrease in numbers, neither do the fur» 
 bearing animals, because these men just as long 
 as they know that no white men are going in— 
 it is their harvest field ; they only require what 
 deer and fur-bearing animals they require for 
 use. As soon as they find that the white men 
 coming in, they go to work and exterminate 
 them. I am not speaking from hearsay, and I 
 think that any gentleman here, who has been 
 in the habit of going through back woods will 
 bear me out in that stateroect. 
 
 Mb. XJssher :— 
 
 That just exactly bears out the contention 
 that I am going to make now. 
 
 Ontario has had this close season for years. 
 Our friend Mr. Oak told us he considered that 
 each moose was worth to the people of the state, 
 the wild portions, .SoOO.OO. If, therefore, during 
 6 years there have been moose killed illegally 
 in Ontario, you have kept out the non-residents, 
 
E' i 
 
 li'i I 
 
 162 — 
 
 from wlioiii you would exact a license fee of 
 S2.').00, aii(i who would probably disburse 
 anywhere from l?200.00 up ; you must have 
 kept out an imiuense sum of money. Now, you 
 put-pose that only once every 3 years you permit 
 that money to come in ; but the other 2 years 
 you do not want it. Now, Mr. Dunn has already 
 shown by their experience in New Brunswick 
 that you can protect one portion of the province 
 acceptably, and allow the other part open, and 
 I hold that the idea of an absolutely close season 
 for years over an entire province, with huch 
 varying conditions as Ontario and Quebec, is a 
 mistake, an absolute mistake in judgment, and 
 that you simply keep out a lot of money that 
 would be disbursed in your wild sections by 
 the non-residents from the States. Now you 
 cannot expect that the people from the States 
 and other sportsmen will worry out to Ontario, 
 if they can get only once in 3 years ; they can 
 go to Quebec once every year ; they can go to 
 Maine once every year, to New Brunswick once 
 every year. You advertise Ontario, we will 
 say during the forthcoming sportsmen's shows, 
 you are going to have an open season and you 
 immediately proceed to nullify all the work for 
 the next year, by closing it again, then you 
 have to commence it again, then you nullify it 
 again — well I do not consider that business. I 
 am talking generally of the system ; I am 
 applying it to Ontario, but it would apply 
 equally to Quebec, I think. The principle is 
 
— 153 — 
 
 fee of 
 isburse 
 b have 
 )W, you 
 permit 
 2 years 
 already 
 jnswick 
 province 
 pen, and 
 e season 
 ith huch 
 ibec, is a 
 lent, and 
 ,ney that 
 ctions by 
 Now you 
 he States 
 Ontario, 
 they can 
 can go to 
 .vick once 
 we will 
 's shows, 
 and you 
 work for 
 then you 
 nullify it 
 siness. I 
 I am 
 lid apply 
 L'inciple is 
 
 wrong of a continuous close season in any state 
 or province, such as is to be found in these two 
 provinces referred to. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would like to make a motion as regards 
 close seasons. I find that you can coine to our 
 lakes ; we have no close season at all. I know 
 one lake in particular where we are propagating, 
 and we have no close at all. We referred it to 
 the Federal Government several times, but some 
 way we cannot get any reply. 
 
 I would like to move this : Resolves that it is 
 the opinion of this Convention that the Federal 
 Government should have the naming of such 
 dates, should make efforts to find out proper 
 dates for close seasons. 
 
 Mr, Ussher : — 
 
 Might I ask the indulgence of the meeting 
 towards this. We, yesterday, passed a Resolu- 
 tion in regard to the press. Now, as the pro- 
 prietor of one of the Montreal papers saw me, 
 and he wanted to know if we intended to send 
 merely the Resolutions just as they are passed, 
 and he thought it \vould be a mistake if we did 
 so. Now he said if you send up a niceJy word- 
 ed circular to the press, I believe it will have a 
 very much better result. 
 
 " North American Fish and Game Protective 
 Association : 
 
— 154 — 
 
 Montreal, Feb. 3rd, 1900. 
 
 To THE Press : — 
 Gentlemen : 
 
 Giving effect to the following Resolution, we 
 sol licit your hearty cooperation, feeling assured 
 that not only will your assistance materially 
 help forward a work of real urgency and public 
 interests and of general benefit to the commu- 
 nity at large, in the states and provinces here 
 represented, but redound to your credit as a 
 public institution." 
 
 ■f 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 It occurs to me what we might ascertain from 
 those who represent the press of Montreal, as 
 well as elsewhere, as to whether it would be 
 agreeable to them that this organization, in 
 promoting the interests for which it is formed, 
 were to have a committee of persons competent 
 to do so to prepare articles, from time to time, 
 on subjects which we desired to have them deal 
 with, presenting in somewhat extended form, 
 perhaps the whole of a column at a time, taking 
 up different subjects at different times, so as to 
 not overcrowd them. I dare say the press would 
 open their columns to such correspondence, and 
 1 dare say it would have more effect, if it was 
 written by the members of this organization. 
 I conduct a newspaper myself, and will be very 
 glad to open my newspaper to it. 
 
155 — 
 
 1900. 
 
 ion, we 
 assured 
 ,terially 
 d public 
 commu- 
 ces here 
 lit as a 
 
 lain from 
 atreal, as 
 vould be 
 a,tion, in 
 5 formed, 
 ompetent 
 to time, 
 hem deal 
 ed form, 
 e, taking 
 so as to 
 ss would 
 |ence, and 
 if it was 
 .nization. 
 I be very 
 
 Mk. Joncas : — 
 
 My experience is that we can get more by 
 moral suasion and by education of the people, I 
 think, than by hundreds of wardens that we 
 may appoint. When the people will understand 
 that they will derive more benefit by respecting 
 the laws than by poaching, then we will reach 
 the result we are all looking forward to, and I 
 do hope the suggestion of Mr. Smith will be 
 carried, and that a committee will be formed to 
 try to devise means to engage the press in a 
 campaign of some sort to educate the people in 
 that respect. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I think this point, educating the public, is a 
 most important matter, one of the most impor- 
 tant matters we can consider ; for instance, if 
 we can educate those who are all right, the 
 righteous, — such do not need education, perhaps ; 
 but when it comes to educating a man who is 
 always considering that there is always a certain 
 favored set, when you convert a man like that 
 you do well. 
 
 Moved by Mr. Parish ; Seconded by Mr. 
 McCoMBlE : — "As many waters have not at 
 prestiut the right date for close season for 
 angling ; 
 
 Resolved that it is the opinion of this Conven- 
 tion that the authorities who do the naming of 
 said dates should make more efforts to find out 
 proper times for close seasons. 
 
I'M 
 
 — 156 — 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 There is one remark I would like to make on 
 that. Unless we have a uniform cl'Se season, 
 it is going to be impossible to administer our 
 laws. If you have a close season here, in one 
 locality, and anolhtr here, how are you going 
 to prove this. A nmn must say : " Well I caught 
 this fish here in tlie open season." That is the 
 difficMilty, thi; Dcpartumnt lias always had ; and 
 if we are jfoinir to make a close season, I think 
 suggestions should l>e offered as to what are the 
 close sefasons in the dirt'erent localities, and then 
 arrange for a uniform close season. 
 
 Mr. Titcomh :— 
 
 I rise to endorse the remarks of the last 
 gentleman ; but if I understand that this Resol- 
 ution is going to conflct witdi any one otlicer 
 who enforces the law, and you are going to have 
 *i or 4 close seasons on bass, I am certninly op- 
 posed to it. We have tried it, but when you begin 
 that sort of thing, there is no end to it ; every 
 may wants a different close season for his 
 particular water ; you cannot enfoVce it. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 The Resohition is not intended for th" at all. 
 I would like to refer to one partit .em, that 
 
 is salmon trout ; in Ontario th' iiave front 
 October loth ; the close season commer jcs on 
 1st day of November for salmon trout, as a 
 matter of fact. Our trout all apawn in October. 
 
lako. on 
 season , 
 iter our 
 , in one 
 u going 
 caught 
 it is the 
 ad ; and 
 I think 
 t are the 
 tnd then 
 
 tlie last 
 is Ri'sol- 
 e otlicer 
 \r to have 
 linly op- 
 lou hegin 
 ; every 
 for his 
 
 h at all. 
 Leni, thnt 
 
 ive from 
 lei ;cs on 
 )nt, as a 
 October. 
 
 — 157 — 
 
 We Imve been trying to get the Government to 
 chnnge it, nn<l we t'onnd oiil at last tluit the 
 opp(».sition is np Georgian Bay, wliere the com- 
 mercial men want to get tliem in October. 
 
 The farther yon go north, the sooner they 
 spawn, and J find that the prineijnil opposition 
 for keeping November the close season, instead 
 of October, came from the commercial men np 
 theri', so there is wliere the Resolution should 
 do good. 
 
 A SlMlAKRll : — 
 
 In the interests of tlie fisheries, I think we 
 shouM su'tordinate other business, in thf inter- 
 ests of tliese fisheries. If tlie clos^' s^'ason in a 
 localifv where these Jicensfs are issu('(l, is not 
 the proper close season ; if for instance, in Like 
 Superior, where they chiim the Hsh have all get 
 through spawning, are all through before the 
 close season, November, why not say : " These 
 licenses will only operate during the month 
 ending with the 1st of October." Theref(>re, to 
 establish a close season there, a man cannot 
 fish— Motion caurikd. 
 
 Meeting Adjourned Until Thkee O'Ci.ock, 
 Feb. 3rd, 1900. 
 
 Meeting Resumed at Three O'Clock, 
 Feb. 3rd, 1900. 
 
'-'oil 
 
 
 i 
 
 ~ 158 — 
 
 No. 23. 
 
 TRANSPORTATION AND SALE OF FISH 
 
 AND GAME. 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 I might say at once that law in the Province 
 of Quebec, about transportation, reads as 
 follows : " Clause 1397. After the first 15 days 
 of the close season, all railway, steamboat and 
 other companies, and public carriers, are for- 
 bidden to carry any moose, caribou or deer, the 
 whole or any part of the flesh of such animal, 
 or the green hile there )f. Any railway, steam- 
 boat or other company, or any person favoring 
 in any manner whatever the contravention of 
 this article shall be liable to a penalty of not 
 less th in ten dollars and not more than wenty 
 dollars. Nevertheless it is lawful for the com- 
 missioner, at any time, to grant transport per- 
 mits when it has been established to his satis- 
 faction that the moose, caribou, or deer, or parts 
 thereof, which it is desired to transport, have 
 been taken or killed during the time v/hen 
 hunting is allowed and in a lawful manner." 
 
 That is the law covering transportation. 
 
 In regarc to the matter of sale, I think we 
 settled that fairly well this morning, by the 
 Resolution that was pas.sed. 
 
 The Chairman : — 
 
 " After the first 15 days of the close season, 
 all railways, steamboats and other companies 
 
159 — 
 
 FISH 
 
 ovince 
 ids as 
 5 days 
 )at and 
 ire for- 
 jer, the 
 animal, 
 steam- 
 ivoring 
 ition of 
 of not 
 weaty 
 le com- 
 jrt per- 
 is satis- 
 or parts 
 rt, have 
 e v/hen 
 iner." 
 
 ion. 
 
 link we 
 by the 
 
 B season, 
 »mpanies 
 
 and public carriers are forbidden to carry any 
 moose, caribou, or deer, the whole or any part 
 of the flesh of such animal or the green hide 
 thereof." 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 As a representative of a transportation com- 
 pany, I would like to ask the various delegates 
 if there is anything, so far as our company is 
 concerned, for example in New Brunswick, 
 Quebec, Ontario, Maine, Vermont, if the articles 
 that surround the transport by the public car- 
 riers are insufficient, shoul I be increased, either 
 being carried in a baggage car, or by express. 
 I ask these gentlemen to dijvelop the question. 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 Mr. President : — I will say that in reference 
 to transportation of game, that it is requir<?d 
 that it shall be properly tagged ; and in the 
 case of big game, accompanied by the owner, 
 and we have no trouble whatever with the 
 present law in that respect. We might have 
 trouble, however, if there was such shipping of 
 game, out of the State. But the express com- 
 panies, in Vermont, have the game laws posted 
 up everywhere in the office, all the offices know 
 what the game laws are, and it is the spirit of 
 the transportation companies to obey them. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 In Ontario the law now is that any game 
 shipped shall be shipped in open boxes, so that 
 
-160- 
 
 tne contents may be seen, and after this we 
 have recommended that the law be amended, so 
 that the address of the parties shipping, the 
 consij>-nOi* or the consignee must also accompany 
 it 
 
 Now, we have rec^om mended that that be 
 alterned ; so that when the coupon is detached 
 in the presence of the parties, the agents of the 
 shippers, and the word " cancelled " must be 
 written across that coupon. 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 I wanted to know whether there was any- 
 thing in relation oo carriers affecting this north- 
 province, and the states where the regulations 
 were not as full and as complete as they should 
 be, and I thought if each province would answer, 
 we would develop it. 
 
 Mr. Joncas: — ,: 
 
 As the law reads, the transportation^ compa- 
 nies may transport game during the season, 
 and 15 days after the close season. We have 
 not, I am sorry to say, in the province of Quebec, 
 the same systeni as tliey have in some States, in 
 Ontario and New Brunswick ; we have not the 
 coupon sj^stem or a tag system ; so that any body 
 who goes hunting c^n send the product of his 
 hunt with the transportation company, whether 
 it is by express or freight. We have no means 
 of controlling this transportation at all, and I 
 do hope that our commissioner will devise some 
 
161 
 
 this we 
 ended, so 
 )ing, the 
 company 
 
 that be 
 detached 
 ts of the 
 must be 
 
 kVas any- 
 is north- 
 ^ulations 
 y should 
 I answer, 
 
 i^compa- 
 season, 
 Ve have 
 Quebec, 
 >tates, in 
 not the 
 ny body 
 ct of his 
 whether 
 o means 
 H, and I 
 ise some 
 
 means. We are very anxious to control this 
 transportation of game ; if we had the tag sys- 
 tem which they have in Ontario and some other 
 states, we would be able to control it and then 
 he would be able to know how much game has 
 been transported by different railways; but we 
 have not got that yet. I hope we will get it 
 later on. I think it is very desirable that we 
 should get it. As it is, I think the game can 
 be transported in any manner. 
 
 Mr. Wilson : — 
 
 Laws governing the transportation of fish and 
 birds, woodcock and partridge, as well as deer 
 in the State of New York, compel the presence 
 of the owner, and the penalties in violation 
 range from S60.00 to SlOO.OO, violation on the 
 part of the express companies, or transportation 
 companies that shall receive them without being 
 accompanied by the owner. 
 
 I wish to say, however, that if a man comes 
 out of the Adirondacks, for instance, to a termi- 
 nal on the road, he my ship from that point 
 fish to his friends, providing he goes along on 
 the same train ; he can send the fi^^h to his 
 friends in various parts of the country. There 
 is a limit, however, to the shipping of woodcock 
 and grouse, as I said this morning, we are 
 limited to 36 woodcocks and 36 grouse, and only 
 12 of these can be shipped at any one time. 
 
 Mr Usshi:r : — 
 
 That is a point I want to bring out here : in 
 
— 162 ^ 
 
 the various fishing districts in the Province of 
 Quebec, people fish illegally, and send what 
 they catch home by express ; the express com- 
 pany perhaps they are watching their shipoients 
 very closely and the superintendent, or whoever 
 looks after that branch of the business, he was 
 an ardent fisherman, and he found that a large 
 quantity of fish were being shipped from one 
 point, day after day, to the same consignee. He 
 thinks there must be something going on here, 
 some wholesale poaching, he would think, Now, 
 what means have you in Quebec to be apprised 
 of just such a state of afiairs as that ? Have 
 you any means at all. 
 
 Now, Mr. Bastedo has stated that fish cannot 
 be shipped without a permit ; is that a permit 
 issued to the angler himself ? 
 
 Mr. Bastedo :— 
 
 No, I ha'l chiefly reference to the large com- 
 mercial fish taken by the fishermen ; we have 
 not applied it in fche case of an angler ; but I 
 do not see why it should not be applicable in 
 that case, • 
 
 Mr Ussher :— 
 
 How will the express agent discriminate 
 between the two ; for instance, say one angler 
 ships 20 pounds of trout, one other man offers 
 60 pounds, and another 25 pounds ; how shall 
 we discriminate as to whether one is an angler, 
 and the other is uot ? 
 
 
— 163 — 
 
 nnce of 
 id what 
 jss coiri- 
 ipoients 
 whoever 
 ;, he was 
 b a large 
 Tom one 
 nee. He 
 on here, 
 ik, Now, 
 apprised 
 ? Have 
 
 h cannot 
 a permit 
 
 rge com- 
 we have 
 ■ ; but I 
 icable in 
 
 sriminate 
 le angler 
 an offers 
 low shall 
 a angler, 
 
 Mr. Bastedo :— 
 
 I suppose we should require the overseer to 
 see to that. The anglers, however, observe the 
 law pretty strictly in our province ; they know 
 when the close season opens, and they observe 
 the law. 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 Supposing a large quantity of fish were 
 offered for shipment, 70 lbs. one day, 30 lbs. the 
 next day, 40 the next day, and so on that way, 
 would we under your regulations, as they exist 
 to day, have authority or be required to decline 
 the acceptance of this ? 
 
 Mr. Bastedo :— 
 
 Yes, our law says, no common carrier shall 
 transport or ship fish caught in contravention 
 of our Act, and unless he has a permit in the 
 close season, he is liable in every case. 
 
 This clause has only been enacted one year, 
 and our age'nts have noo been stringent in I he 
 enactment of it. until the law becomes bt'ttor 
 known ; but I took precaution'^ to send that to 
 our express companies. 
 
 Mr. Smith (of New Brunswick) :— 
 
 Pursuant to some remarks I made just before 
 ajournment for lunch, I desired to make a Reso- 
 lution recognizing the efficiency of the press as 
 an educative force : 
 
 Resolved that a committee of this Association 
 
— 164 — 
 
 I 
 
 to be called the Promotion Committee, be 
 appointed i'or the purpose of furnishing data 
 and otherwise dissemining to the press and 
 other channels the communication of informa- 
 tion calculated to promote particularly our 
 protective objects. 
 Motion seconded by Mr. Chambers. 
 
 Mr. Chambers :— 
 
 I second that motion, not merely as a pressman 
 myself, but as a sportsman, and I appreciate 
 the necessity of moral suasion being brought to 
 bear on people on the outskirts, and also I want 
 to bring suasion on the city people, if one man, 
 for instance, gives $25.00 for protection of game 
 that it is not 5?25,00 thrown away, that it is 
 well and wisely employed. 
 
 We cannot do that in Q,uebec yet ; we have 
 to educate public opinion up to that in the cities. 
 
 We make use of our colonization societies 
 who are planting. settlers in parts of the country 
 where it is verily impossible for them to get 
 any revenue out of the soil ; the lands are most- 
 ly barren, and yet they are sending people into 
 barien countries, where their only hope is in 
 the money fishermen and sportsmen spend. 
 There are many districts in this province simi- 
 larly located. We want to bring influence to 
 bear on both classes of people. 
 
 I look forward to a great deal of goo 1 being 
 done by the committee such as is now propo.sed, 
 and I heartily endorse the motion. 
 
— 165- 
 
 bee, be 
 ig data 
 ss and 
 iforma- 
 •ly our 
 
 rcssman 
 predate 
 )Ught to 
 3 I want 
 tne man, 
 of game 
 ihat it is 
 
 kve have 
 he cities, 
 societies 
 country 
 n to get 
 e niost- 
 ple into 
 \jG is in 
 spend, 
 ce simi- 
 ueiice to 
 
 o 1 being 
 proposed, 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I am very glad that Mr. Smith has incUided 
 in liis resolution the words " other sources." 
 Now, my remarks while I am on my feet at tliis 
 time, will be addressed to two gentlemen in this 
 room. Among other sources that have a strong 
 influence and have an immense power in the 
 protection of your fish laws at least, probably 
 your game laws as well, is the average railroad 
 agtnt. Mr. Ussher possibly did not mention it, 
 I was not here during all his talk, therefore I 
 cannot say positively, but it is a fact that so far 
 as the Canadian Pacific are concerned and the 
 Giiuul Trunk — the express companies are man- 
 aged by the manageis of the railroads, therefore 
 the railroad instructions are observed in the 
 express department. 
 
 Now, I will give you one illustration of that. 
 I have not been domiciled in Canada a great 
 many years. My first spring in Canada was in 
 1896, and on the day prior to Good Friday of 
 1890. I saw on our platform at Vaudreuil, which 
 is a little French town 35 miles from Montreal, 
 27 packages of fish consigned to Montreal deal- 
 ers ; it was the close season or that season of 
 the year in which they should not have been 
 permitted to ship any fish. I was a newcomer, 
 and did not know what to do. At that time I 
 was not a member of the Province of Quebec 
 Fish and Game Association, but I nuide up my 
 mind that there must be some means of stopping 
 
— 166 — 
 
 i< 
 
 that sort of thing, therefore without taking the 
 time to inquire what the means were, I immedi- 
 ately gave instructions to our agent at Vaudreuil 
 and St. Anne's, both of these stations which 
 are on the Ottawa River, that any future con- 
 signments of fish that were presented, that my 
 ofiice was to be immediately wired and the fish 
 was not to be transported until they got a reply 
 from my office that they could do so. The 
 instructions did not end there. Following that 
 I gave instructions that a copy of this order 
 was to be sent to every shipper of fish in Vau- 
 dreuil and St. Anne's. We did not have any 
 more presented. 
 
 Now, that was not a case whore we invoked 
 th.; law ; as a matter of fact I did not know 
 there was any law we could invoke, but I thought 
 I would give them a bluff, and it worked. Since 
 then we have had some cases of a similar nature, 
 and I communicated with Mr. Cleghorn, and it 
 has been stopped. 
 
 Now, I want to say to you gentlemen, if every 
 railroad will do that sort of thing, it will help 
 you materially. There is a power there that 
 you cannot get around. When the illegal ship- 
 per of fish was notified that it could not be 
 shipped and the reply was received, he did not 
 bring any more. I suppose he knew where he 
 was going to get into trouble, but I did not. And 
 I think if my railroad friends that are here to- 
 day and I know they want to, will join in, or 
 whether they join or not, individually,Jf they 
 
— 167 
 
 ng the 
 [imedi- 
 idreuil 
 which 
 re con- 
 hat my 
 :,he fish 
 a reply 
 ). The 
 nff that 
 s order 
 in Vau- 
 Lve any 
 
 invoked 
 
 )t know 
 
 thought 
 
 Since 
 
 nature, 
 
 and it 
 
 if every 
 vill help 
 3re that 
 ral ship- 
 not be 
 did not 
 vhere he 
 lot. And 
 here to- 
 in in, or 
 %ji they 
 
 will give such instructions to their station men 
 in every case where they suspect that the laws 
 of this Association are violated, and in making 
 that fact known you will have 9/10 of it stopped, 
 before the crime is committed. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 This was a matter that we have been consid- 
 ering for some time. I saw it would foitify us 
 very much, and since I have been here, I have 
 been in conversation with one or two railroad 
 men. I intended to ask the various railroad men 
 present if they would cooperate ; if it would be 
 much of a hardship for them to send monthly a 
 statement of any merchants who shipped tish 
 over their roads, and from what points. 
 
 I did not like to adopt such a stringent mea- 
 sure, without seeing how it would afFecfc them, 
 and I am only too happy to receive their cooper- 
 ation on that point. 
 
 I will illustrate to you what great advantage 
 our legislature has on that point about it being 
 illegal, about any common carrier shipping out 
 of the province any fish contrary to law. In a 
 certain portion this year parties were shipping 
 fish out of the Province ; the implements with 
 which they were capturing these fish were not 
 prohibited by law, so I just, took i his clause, and 
 I said : " This must be stopped." These men had 
 caught in 2 months, 70,000 lbs. of fish ; but it 
 was stopped at ooce. Motion Carried. 
 
108 — 
 
 Mr Parish : — 
 
 I have a motion I would like to put through, 
 it will not take a minute. 
 
 It is moved by mysdf ; seconded l>y Mr. W.vlsh. 
 
 " That it is expedient that the [)roper autho- 
 rities should instruct their wardens and officers 
 to enforce laws in all cases with as much court- 
 esy as possible, especially as rr<;ards foieign 
 sportsmen." ' . 
 
 Mil Watsh :— 
 
 We liad an experience in that line, 3 years 
 amv There is a certain club in Pittsljurorh, that 
 comes into Canada and goes into camp for a 
 month and expend a great deal of moni^y ein[>loy- 
 ing Canadian guides and all that sort of thing, 
 yet I think at this time that I mention, some 
 warden, in order to show his official capacity, 
 came and seized all their ffuns and every thint' 
 they had. Now, they were not connnitting any 
 violation of the law in anj' respect whatever, 
 and I. think that the Gmnd Trunk found out 
 afterwards that we had considerable difficulty 
 to induce them to come back to Canada. 
 
 A Speaker: — 
 
 What is the name of the club ? 
 
 Mr. Wai.sh : — 
 
 The Iron City Fish and Game Club, of Pitts- 
 burgh. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I just happen to have in my pocket a copy of 
 
1G9 — 
 
 rough, 
 
 iValsh. 
 
 iiutho- 
 
 court- 
 
 oiuign 
 
 ] yejirs 
 ;li, that 
 p for a 
 ui[>l()y- 
 :' thing, 
 I, some 
 lacUv, 
 thing 
 g any 
 iitever, 
 nd out 
 ieulty 
 
 Pitts- 
 
 opy of 
 
 instructions to fish overseers in Ontario ; it 
 
 covers 84 different directions to tisliery overseers 
 
 and the final paragraph says : " The proper 
 
 observance to the fishery laws and regulations 
 
 depends almost entirely on the judgment of the 
 
 fishery overseers ; keep your ears and eyes open 
 
 for violations ; but do not be too Imsty on what 
 
 you hear ; be vigilant and fearless in enforcing 
 
 the laws, but try to do so without being obnox- 
 >» 
 
 lOUS. 
 
 Mr. Davis : — 
 
 I do not think we should be too careful as to 
 the feelings of other people who disobey the 
 law. Quite possibly some members froiw Ontario 
 will remember this case : a fishing club from 
 Kentucky violated the game laws of Ontario ; 
 they killed a deer or a moose, or something up 
 there, a deer I think it was. The oflfender was 
 a gentleman who has the honor to preside in 
 one of the United States Courts. He was com- 
 municated with, and he thought that a sufficient 
 reply would be to say : " If you do not want me 
 in Canada, I will not come any more." Acci- 
 dentally I got these papers or saw something of 
 them. 1 instructed my man who was located 
 in Cincinnati to go down and call on the Honor- 
 able gentleman. He did ; he made me a very 
 adverse report as to the temper of that gentle- 
 man. He said that if he could not come into 
 Canada, and do as he pleased he would not 
 come any more. I was advised by my man in 
 
— 170 — 
 
 I' 
 
 that district that we should let it drop, because 
 we should not offend that man. T instructtid 
 him to go again ; he went and saw him about 
 once a week, and he made the life of that gentle- 
 man a little bit burdensome ; but it did not end 
 thei'e. I wrote my representative a letter, sent 
 him a copy of the letter that I proposed to write 
 to " Recreation," " Field and Streams " and the 
 various standard sporting papers of the United 
 States ; it was a resume briefly of the whole 
 case, and I said to him to go and show the 
 gentleman that letter, and ask him if he would 
 rather pay the fine, that he properly should pay 
 in Ontario for violating its laws, or get those 
 letters published. If Mr. Tinsley was here, he 
 would corroborate me in saying that he paid 
 the $50.00 fine.— Motion carried. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — There is one item here, I 
 do not know whether it has been dealt with or 
 not, No 1 on the paper. " Harmonizing of laws 
 of the provinces and states." 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I think there was a committee reported on 
 that. 
 
 Mr, Chambers : — 
 
 I would move ; seconded by Mr. Smith : That 
 that Committee be instructed to report at the 
 next annual meeting. 
 
 
 
— 171 — 
 
 )p, because 
 instructed 
 him about 
 hat gontlc- 
 lid not end 
 letter, sent 
 jed to write 
 i" and the 
 the United 
 ' the whole 
 1 show the 
 if he would 
 should pay 
 ►r get those 
 ms hero, lie 
 lat he paid 
 
 item here, I 
 ealt with or 
 zing of laws 
 
 reported on 
 
 Jmith : That 
 jport at the 
 
 Mr. Cormier: — 
 
 There was, before you took the chair, a trans- 
 portation item which Mr. Ussher said a few 
 words on, and Mr. Davis of the Grand Trunk 
 also ; but we did not hear from the other rail- 
 ways. 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 Before these gentlemen speak, I would like 
 to call your attention again to this Resolution 
 which I put this morning, which has not acted 
 upon, that is the circular to the press. " Giving 
 effect to the following Resolution, which your 
 hearty cooperation, feeling assured that not only 
 will your assistance materially help forward a 
 work of real urgency and public interest and of 
 general benefit to the community at large in the 
 States and Provinces here represented, but re- 
 dund to your credit as a public institution." — 
 Motion seconded l)j'' Mr. Smith. 
 
 M R. Ussher : — 
 
 I might say, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Parent 
 told me this morning that it was his intention 
 to undertake all these matters on behalf of the 
 association, to be done by the Province of Que- 
 bec. 
 
 Mr. Walsh :— 
 
 I do not think so far aa we are concerned that 
 we can add anything, so far as the Canada 
 Atlantic Railway is concerned. 
 
 I might say that every official connected with 
 
— 172 — 
 
 cur railway in our game warden. If any sug- 
 gestion could be made by any gentleman here 
 present, how wc are going to control the ship- 
 ments of game by express, I would like to get 
 some idea in that respect, but as far as Ontario 
 is concerned, we find that the coupon system 
 works very satisfactorily, and we do not find 
 such abuse of it. I know this gentleman here 
 has spoken of one or two instances where the 
 coupons have been used two or three times. 
 Now, I have change of the baggage department 
 of our road, and this matter has never come to 
 my notice. 
 
 If you will let us know, we will cooperate 
 with you in every wny ; and as regards the 
 circulars that you suggested, we are prepared 
 to work with you in eveiy way possible. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I would like to ask that this Association 
 request the transportation managers to instruct 
 their several agents to render whatever assist- 
 ance lies in their power in the matter of invest- 
 igating any illegal shipments of game or fish. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 In asking the transportation companies to 
 request their agents to investigate their ship- 
 ments, I would say that on the Ottawa and 
 Gatineau Valley Road, I have an order issued 
 to our agents to investigate all suspicious ship- 
 ments and to abide by the game laws to the 
 letter, in regard to the shipments. 
 
— 173 
 
 my sug- 
 nan here 
 the ship- 
 :e to get 
 1 Ontario 
 a system 
 not find 
 man here 
 vhere the 
 •ee times, 
 partment 
 r come to 
 
 cooperate 
 
 gartls the 
 prepared 
 )le. 
 
 ssociation 
 ^o instruct 
 er assist- 
 of invest- 
 or fish. 
 
 Ipanies to 
 Iheir ship- 
 Itawa and 
 Ide** issued 
 fous ship- 
 iws to the 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 I have a suggestion to make in addition ; one 
 gentleman present, in his remarks, asked what 
 further instructions might be given that they 
 might more clearly understand what is required, 
 or what would place them in a better position 
 to aid in the enforcement of this law against 
 illegal transportation of game. 
 
 I understand that the gentlemen from Ottawa, 
 if I am right, stated that thier law compelled 
 them to ship game in open boxes It occurred 
 to me that that might not always be a conve- 
 nient way to carry them. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Excuse me. That does not apply to fish. 
 
 Previous Speaker : — 
 
 No sir, but I am speaking particularly of 
 game birds, I thought that this might be done ; 
 I do not know, but as it has been suggested 
 before, if it could be made a penal offence for 
 any shipper of game during such period as he 
 was not al'owed to ship it, if it could be made 
 a penal offence that he should neglect to mark 
 on the outside of the package one contents. 
 Now, we have coming to Boston every little 
 while, packages coming in marked " eggs, 
 chicken " and so on ; but not game. It never is 
 marked what it is. We have no law preventing 
 the shipment of poultry, and we have been 
 asked to come over and see them, several times. 
 
i.?i 
 
 — 174 — 
 
 There is a question whether that applies to 
 the Quebec law. A great deal of this might be 
 got over by putting the burden right on the 
 shipper. Simply say : " Here* if you think you 
 can slide the boxes through, by marking it 
 something else, you are liable for not marking 
 it just what it contains, game." 
 
 Then if he is caught, why of course he 'si 
 punished, and I think it would deter a great 
 many ; they would not run the risk, 
 
 A Speaker :— 
 
 Certainly, it would be a good thing to have ; 
 but do you not think the common law would 
 settle that as a matter of fraud ? 
 
 I might ask, while I am on my feet, if there 
 is anything before the Board. 
 
 The Chairman :— 
 
 The clause of spring shoo'ing remains. 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 Mr. President : — I do not want to take up 
 too much of your time. The suggestion of the 
 gentleman who has just spoken about their 
 allowing people to catch for domestic use makes 
 me thing of a story. The District Attorney, in 
 Maine, who was expecting some of his friends, 
 went down to the proverbial liquor agent, not 
 having enough in his own wine cellar ; and he 
 said to the agent : " I wish you would send up 
 a certain amount of claret, about two bottles, I 
 have not got enough." 
 
ies to 
 jht be 
 on the 
 
 ang it 
 arking 
 
 B he '^ 
 El great 
 
 o have ; 
 V would 
 
 if there 
 
 3. 
 
 take up 
 m of the 
 »ut their 
 se makes 
 oriK.y, in 
 friends, 
 ,gent, not 
 and he 
 send up 
 bottles, I 
 
 
 ^ 175 «- 
 
 The law requires that this be for some sick- 
 ness, or something of that sort, so the agent 
 came out just as the attorney was driving away, 
 and he said : " I suppose this is for sickness." 
 And he said : " Yes, by the way, they are pretty 
 damned sick, you better make it a dozen." Now, 
 it seems to me if you have any loopholes ia 
 your law, such as allowing people to shoot for 
 domestic use, you are going to let them through 
 it, and you are going to have just some such 
 infraction of the law as the story I have just 
 related. 
 
 I am personally opposed to all spring shoot- 
 ing of all game birds, and I think it ought to 
 be the voice of this meeting that spring shooting 
 should be entirely prohibited, 
 Mb. )S>jlTH ;— 
 
 Jf you carry the principle too far, you simply 
 niake the matter of destroying these birds 
 worse. If you attempted to prevent these 
 people, by any drastic means, it would lead to 
 other means which would be more iniportant ; 
 and we must be careful, in enacting these laws 
 that we do not make them too stringent on the 
 public. 
 
 A Speaker :— 
 
 Jn Ontario we have abolished spring shooting 
 entirely. Our only trouble is ; we stand on the 
 Bt. Lawrence and hear the American bang, bang 
 ftway, in the spring. 
 
 it^pring sl^ooting is all right with us, if you can 
 
— 176 — 
 
 only stop the American bnng, bangging away 
 across the riv er from us, 
 
 Mr. Wilson : — 
 
 I am sorry that the committee appointed re- 
 garding the fish article in the programme has 
 not been able to have a meeting. I should have 
 liked to have gone home and gone to our gov- 
 ernor, vv^ho is a true sportsman in every sense, 
 and told him what the provinces of Canada 
 desired of Vermont and of Maine, and I am very 
 sure that it would cooperate with us in securing 
 all necessary harmonious law. I wish to say, 
 however, thit our fish and game and forest 
 commissioners have recommended that the date 
 of open shooting, in the spring, be changed from 
 May 1st to March 1st. That gives, I think, 
 30 days' close season earlier than any law on 
 your Canadian statute books, and I feel con- 
 fident in making the statement that we in the 
 State of New York will heartily cooperate with 
 you here in Canada and adjacent states, in the 
 effort to secure a harmonious law that can be 
 enforced. 
 
 A Speaker: — 
 
 I think our Resolution with regard to harmo- 
 nizing the laws was a little short. I think there 
 should be some means afforded of suggestions 
 being oftered pro and con on the subject that we 
 might have an opportunity of considering these 
 before we meet, and if these could be comnni- 
 nicated to the secretary who shall advise tl^e 
 
— 1Y7 — 
 
 y away 
 
 nted re- 
 ime has 
 lid have 
 Dur gov- 
 y seuse, 
 Canada 
 am very 
 securing 
 
 I to say, 
 id forest 
 
 the date 
 cred from 
 
 I I think, 
 law on 
 
 :eel con- 
 ve in the 
 
 ate with 
 es, in the 
 
 i can be 
 
 harmo- 
 nk there 
 gcrestions 
 t that we 
 ing these 
 couimu- 
 Ivise the 
 
 different governments, I think it will be a great 
 service. We may all meet here next meeting, 
 to consider this ; but a great deal of time will be 
 occupied probably in the meantime before we 
 meet. 
 
 Mr. Smith (New Brunswick) : — 
 
 I think it is really necessary that we should 
 lose a year, because we could not possibly cover 
 it adequately in the time that is at the disposal 
 of the question, here. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 It is a burning question with us, to see the 
 wholesale slaughter that has been committed, 
 there while we are trying to get our men to 
 observe the law. 
 
 Mr. TiTCOMB : — 
 
 I came up here with that question in my 
 mind, more than any other, this idea of uniform 
 laws, 
 
 I think I was the first speaker yesterday on 
 the subject, and I am going home feeling tiiat 
 we have not lost a year in spite of the fact that 
 the Committee has not met. I shall feel that 
 we have accomplished a great deal for Vermont 
 and Canada, on that one item. 
 
 Moved by Mr. Dickson : That spring shooting 
 be entirely prohibited ; Seconded by Mr. Davis. 
 " That we recommend that spring shooting be 
 prohibiteil, as far as possible. — Motion Carried. 
 
 J^- ^^ 
 
— 178 — 
 
 The Chairman : — 
 
 In the name of the Province of Quebec I 
 might say that we will undertake the printing 
 and the mailing of the report of the proceedings, 
 and send copies of the proceedings to the States 
 and other Provinces that are represented to-day. 
 
 Moved by Mr. Smith ; Seconded by Mr. Cham- 
 bers ; That we now proceed with the appoint- 
 ment of the Promotion Committee. 
 
 Moved by Mr. Wilson ; Seconded by Mr. Smith ; 
 That the Association be a committee of the 
 whole to promote its own membership, and to 
 report the names of the gentlemen who desire 
 to become members to the Secretary, to be pre- 
 sented at the next annual meeting. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — I am not a very good hand 
 to say many nice thing ; but I am one of the 
 representatives from our province, — Ontario. 
 There is only one of my colleagues here now, 
 the others, unfortunately, had to leave before 
 the conclusion of our business ; but I think I 
 have just voiced the sentiments of the whole of 
 them, what they would say if they were, and 
 what they would be glad for me to say if they 
 were not. 
 
 I say this is the pleasantest association we 
 have ever had. We have never been so grandly 
 entertained, so courteously as by our President, 
 to-day. 
 
— 179 — 
 
 ebec I 
 •inting 
 Bdings, 
 States 
 to-day. 
 
 Cham- 
 ppoint- 
 
 Smith : 
 
 of the 
 
 , and to 
 
 o desire 
 
 . be pre- 
 
 )od hand 
 16 of the 
 
 Ontario, 
 ere now, 
 ve before 
 think I 
 
 whole of 
 tvere, and 
 
 y if they 
 
 ation we 
 o grandly 
 President, 
 
 He has gone to some expense in entertaining 
 us ; he went to great expense last night in 
 entertaining us ; he presided constantly through 
 our meeting, and I have now, as a representative 
 of Ontario, very great pleasure in moving him 
 a cordial vote of thanks for his greut kindness 
 and courtesy. 
 
 Mr. McCombie : — 
 
 In seconding that Motion, I have just to voice 
 the sentiment of my predec ,ssor. I am sure we 
 will all join him in thanking our worthy resid- 
 ing officer for his hospitality and the kindness 
 he has shown us all here, and his kindness for 
 what he is Sfoing to do for us. . in sending us a 
 report of the meeting, and other matters. I 
 think that is a nice little item which will 
 benefit both ourselves and our friends, and I 
 know that it is the wish of everybody here to 
 say a little more, so I shall retire. 
 
 Mr. Smith : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — As you are in the chair, 
 from New Brunswick, and as my friend, our 
 then game commissioner, does not seem to say 
 anything, I would just like to add that we from 
 New Brunswick wish to say that we appreciate 
 the hospitality, the magnificent hospitality with 
 which our Chairman has entertained us together 
 with the other delegates. I think that in such 
 a mixed nationality as we have in Canada that 
 it is desirable that we come 'together as much 
 as possible in order that we might understand 
 
180 — 
 
 each other better. We come from places widely 
 set apart, and it is a grand thing, I think, to 
 find that whether we are Yankees, or English- 
 men, or Frenchmen, or Irishmen, or Scotchmen, 
 that we come here with the one object in view, 
 and that is to courteously exchange views in 
 relation to great matters, interesting the country. 
 
 Under the able presidency of Mr. Parent, we 
 have advanced very much in that respect, and 
 we have to attribute to him very largely, the 
 success of this meeting. And I have very much 
 pleasure indeed in endorsing what has been al- 
 ready. 
 
 Mr. Titcomb : — 
 
 In behalf of my colleague and myself, from 
 Vermont, I wish to reiterate the statements of 
 those who have preceded me, in expressing my 
 appreciation of this Convention. 
 
 We came here as strangers, and he took us in, 
 and entertained us ; we were hungry, and he fed 
 lis ; we were thirsty, and he gave us drink. Sure- 
 ly what more could we expect. 
 
 I thank and all the gentlemen from Canada 
 for the grand hospitality we have received at 
 your hands. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. Chairman : — I do not know that I can 
 add verj' much to what has been said ; but if I 
 could express myself, I feel right here I would 
 speak a large volume. 
 
— 181 — 
 
 viclcly 
 Ilk, to 
 iglish- 
 jhmen, 
 1 view, 
 Bws in 
 )untry. 
 
 ent, we 
 ict, and 
 ely, the 
 y much 
 been al- 
 
 3lf , from 
 ments of 
 sing my 
 
 >ok us in, 
 id he fed 
 k. Sure- 
 Canada 
 jeived at 
 
 lat I can 
 but if I 
 X would 
 
 I must say however, for my own good State, 
 and for some other States, as they are not lie re 
 to speak for themselves, that I think we have 
 had what we could call a most harmonious 
 meeting. 
 
 I do not think I have ever attended a meoting 
 in my life which has through the length of time 
 this meeting has extended", wherein I have seen 
 so much courtesy and harmony. 
 
 There has not been the least particle of friction 
 here, although we all know there are diverse 
 interests represented, and I think that a great 
 deal of it is due to the fact that we appreciate 
 so fully that our worthy President and Honor- 
 able Commissioner has this whole matter in him, 
 heart and soul. 
 
 I do not think there ever was a Commissioner 
 of lands, forests and fisheries in the province 
 who has taken a deeper personal interest, than 
 our present commissioner has shown and taken. 
 
 I came to Canada a stranger to him, last year, 
 and I received the most coiu-teous treatment. I 
 do not see how a man knowing him for years 
 could have received more, and I hear it from 
 every source, and I sincerely wish to add my 
 humble thanks for myself and my friend, unless 
 he choose to speak for himself, for the kindness 
 and courtesy we have received here, together 
 with the good things that our friend from Ver- 
 mont has mentioned, and so far as we are con- 
 
— 182 — 
 
 cerned, Mr. President and Gentlemen, we thank 
 you. 
 
 Mr. Wilson (New York) : — 
 
 In rising to second the Motion as made, I 
 want to thank the presiding officer, tirst of all 
 for his sufferance, in alh)wing a rattlebrained, 
 enthusiastic iisherman to express himself with- 
 out limit ; I came liere as a club men, a member 
 of a club of Cana(hi. I seem to have resolved 
 myself into the representative of the State of 
 New York, and I am alone. I wish to pledge, 
 however, the Couunissioner and this Association 
 that at our next annual meeting I will do my 
 best to biing here as representatives of the 
 State of New York, a fair representation of men 
 who feel and act as we have acted here through- 
 out this Convention. 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 Mr. Davis : — 
 
 As the representative of a railroad that runs 
 through a number of States, Maine, that you 
 have heard a good deal about. New Hampshire 
 and Vermont, the Province of Quebec, and 
 Ontario, the States of Michigan, Indiana, and 
 Illinois, I desire to second the Resolution of 
 thanks to the Chairman for the able manner in 
 which he has conducted the proceedings, and 
 more especially for the interest that he himself 
 has personally taken in our affairs. 
 
 This meeting has been one of great interest, 
 and I do not think I am going too far when I 
 
thank 
 
 made, I 
 rst of all 
 sbrained, 
 elf vvith- 
 L member 
 
 resolved 
 ! State of 
 )o pledge, 
 ssociation 
 ill do my 
 es of the 
 on of men 
 e through- 
 
 that runs 
 that you 
 iampshire 
 lebec, and 
 liana, and 
 solution of 
 manner in 
 lings, and 
 he himself 
 
 K 
 
 )C 
 
 at interest, 
 far when I 
 
 — 183 — 
 
 say that the transportation companies that are 
 represented here to-day have been given a new 
 impetus ; they have been given something to 
 encourage tliem in trying to do what they could 
 to aid you in the protection of this, and I trust 
 their influence will not be lost, and I trust that 
 as years go by, the influence of th^ transporta- 
 tion company, the influence of the flsherman 
 and the sportsmen will be very much more 
 closely united than it has been in the past. 
 
 Mr. Ussher : — 
 
 I also wish to second that, and say that from 
 my standpoint Mr. Parent, in calling his meeting, 
 has done more for the interests of the trans- 
 portation Companies towards the further supply 
 of game and fish in the provinces and states 
 through which we run. 
 
 I consider that this meeting which he has 
 called is the first great thing to rescue from 
 indifference a very large proportion of humanity, 
 and I certainly think our thanks are very 
 greatly due to him for it. 
 
 Mr. Chambers : — 
 
 Coming from the same city as our President, 
 I might just simply state that in the City to 
 which he belongs, over which he has the honor 
 to preside as Mayor, for the past 8 years, and 
 for as many more years, if he wishes, I wish to 
 say that in that City he is known by m«n of all 
 grades and all nationalities, and men speaking 
 
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 Photographic 
 
 Sciences 
 Corporation 
 
 23 WEST MAIN STREET 
 
 WEBSTER, N.Y. MS80 
 
 (716) 872-4503 
 
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 — 184 — 
 
 * 
 
 the different tongues that are spoken there, he 
 is known there I say as one of the most broad- 
 minded of Quebec's citizens. He is known there 
 as a man who respects not only the rights but 
 even the feelings and the habits of all his fellow 
 citizuns, and I need not I am sure say anything 
 to you about the deep and abiding interest 
 which he has taken in this department since 
 he is at the head of it, because the calling 
 together of this convention is proof of it, but 
 I iniglit say that 1 do not know any one who 
 has taken much a deep interest in this subject 
 of fish and game association as Mr. Parent, and 
 for that reason I am glad to rise and second 
 this Motion. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Djnn (New Brunswick): — 
 
 Gentlemen : — Before putting this motion, if 
 you do not object, as one of the representatives 
 of New Brunswick, it has afforded me great 
 pleasure in coming here, to attend this meeting, 
 and also to see the members from the different 
 provinces ; and I shall long remember the plea- 
 sure it has given to me, not only pleasure but 
 instruction, and I think this gathering is going 
 to do a lot of frood in the manner of cousolidatinjjf 
 the game laws, because I think when the Resolu- 
 tions which we have adopted here, are put in 
 operation that we will reich the end we are 
 looking for, to protect the game and fish. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, I would put this Resolution : 
 
- 185 — 
 
 here, he 
 t broad- 
 »vn there 
 This but 
 is fellow 
 inything 
 
 interest 
 jnt since 
 e calling 
 of it, but 
 
 one who 
 is subject 
 ,rent, and 
 ud second 
 
 L 
 
 motion, if 
 sentatives 
 me great 
 meeting, 
 different 
 the plea- 
 asure but 
 g is going 
 solidating 
 le Resolu- 
 Lie put in 
 1(1 we are 
 ish. 
 
 resolution : 
 
 That the thanks of this nieeting be extended to 
 our worthy President for the courtesy and hos- 
 pitality he has tendered to us. 
 
 A Speaker : — 
 
 Mr. President : — It affords me very much 
 pleasure in endorsing the Motion which has just 
 been passed to you, for the kind and courteous 
 way in which you have handled tliis Convention, 
 and as I have said before, for your hospitality 
 to us here. 
 
 Mr. Parent: — 
 
 Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen : — I do not 
 know really what I have to say to express my 
 thanks for the kindness that you have shown 
 to me. 
 
 Really by hearing every one of you speaking 
 it wouid be thought that everj'thing has been 
 done by me, it is really well compensated by the 
 answer you have given to my invitation, and 
 by your presence here to-day. 
 
 I hope, as the Hon. Mr. Dunn has said, that a 
 good result might come from this Convention, 
 and I will be happy to report to my colleagues 
 in the province what good v/ork has been done 
 duriuij this week. 
 
 Of course we have only made a start as yet, 
 and m my thingfs remain to be dune. We have 
 organized a committee, and liave to di.scuss 
 what has been done during the 2 days. So far 
 

 '^ 
 
 a9 J am cx)noerped, I am quite willing to eonti- 
 nqe what we have started yesterday, and | havQ 
 po doubt I can depend on you, gentlemen, to 
 carry out the WQrl(. 
 
 Again let me thank you for your kindness to 
 me throughout this meeting. 
 
 The meeting then adjourned with the singing 
 of " God save the Queen " and tho ** Stftr» 
 Spangled Ban»ev." 
 
conti- 
 1 1 havo 
 men, to 
 
 inesi to 
 
 singing 
 
 Montreal, 2nd February, IQOO. 
 
 meeting: of the North American Fish niia 
 aaiiie Protective AtsoeiatioQ, 
 
 Charles E. Oak, Augusta, Maine. 
 
 The DepaHment of Inland Fisheries and Game 
 of the State of Maine, is in charge of three 
 commissioners, duly appointed and qualified 
 by the Governor in Council. Their duties 
 consist in propagating and distributing desirable 
 species of inland fish, directing the enforcements 
 of all fish and game laws and also establishing 
 rules and regulations for the taking of fish and 
 game, under certain circumstances which will 
 be described later, 
 
 In directing the enforcement of the fish and 
 game laws, it is. of course, necessary to have a 
 warden for it. This force, until a few years 
 ago, consisted of some one hundred and thirty 
 men, appointed to serve as. what you might 
 term, local wardens ; that is, each warden was 
 Bupposod to look after certain limited territoriw 
 
188 — 
 
 « 
 
 immediately udjacenfc to his home. These ward- 
 ens were appointod usually upon the recouinien- 
 dation of certain influential residents «)f the 
 locality, partly, perhaps, for political purposes, 
 and as a usual thini^, without having been seen 
 or consulted with by the commissioners with 
 reference to their special fitness for the position. 
 As a result, very many were employed in the 
 service utterly incompetent for the place, not 
 liaving been advised with by the commissioners, 
 except througli correspondence. They were 
 left to interpret their duties quite largely accord- 
 ing to their intelligence, and, I am sorry to say 
 that, in many cases their intelligence was not of 
 the highest order, and their honesty very often 
 questionable because as a portion of the com- 
 pensation for their services, they were entitled 
 to onti liulf of the lino imposed, when successful 
 prosecutions were made. This led to what 
 seems to me to have been a radically wrong idea 
 about how iish and game law^s should be enforced. 
 The temptation was very great and often 
 indulged in by the warden to prosecute the 
 most trivial and technical violations of the law, 
 for the simple purpose of obtaining one half 
 the line, and, as a result, the gross otiences, 
 though somewhiit difficult of detecting, were 
 left unprosocuted, while the poorer classes, those 
 needing our sympathy rather than prosecution, 
 were often sent to jail. This caused the wardens' 
 occiipation to degenerate to such an extent that 
 only a low grade of humanity would accept the 
 
— 189 — 
 
 se ward- 
 ioinmen- 
 3 oi the 
 purposes, 
 een seen 
 ers with 
 I position, 
 ed in the 
 place, not 
 lissioners, 
 ley were 
 ly accord- 
 rry to say 
 was not of 
 very often 
 : the com- 
 re entitled 
 
 successful 
 
 to what 
 
 ^vrong idea 
 
 ic enforced. 
 
 Innd often 
 
 secute the 
 lof the law, 
 
 \cf one half 
 
 p 
 
 |ss otfences, 
 |ting, were 
 
 ,sses, those 
 rosecution, 
 iB wardens' 
 [extent that 
 
 accept the 
 
 office. A warden was regarded as a very cheap 
 fellow, entitled to no respect wherever he went. 
 
 Five years ago we had a radical change ; the 
 old force of wardens was entirely discharged 
 and the Commissioners adopted the policy of 
 employing about ten men constantly, nearly or 
 quite the whole year. These men are appointed 
 as wardens foi the whole State and are qualified 
 to prosecute any offender of the laws wherever 
 found. We endeavoured in selecting these ward- 
 ens, to obtain the highest grade of intelligence 
 and the most trustworthy men we could engage 
 for the business. They are frequently called 
 to consult with the Commission'jrs, carefully 
 discuss the aims and objects of the law, and are 
 paid regular salaries without anj'- portion of the 
 fines imposed. It took a little tii^ie to enable 
 us to secure the most desirable help for this 
 business, but after discharging a few and 
 appointing others, we think we have succeeded 
 in securing a class of wardens equal, at least, 
 if not superior to those fpund in an^^ other 
 State or Province. They are men of character, 
 standing and ability, such as to command respect 
 wherever they travel and journeying as they do, 
 constantly, are enabled through their influence, 
 morally, of preventing very many violations of 
 law and interesting the people in the preserva- 
 tion of our fish and game. 
 
 They are also able to make very many friends 
 in each locality visited who are constantly on 
 the watch to furnish them such needful infor- 
 
— 190 — 
 
 i 
 
 matlon as desired to make prosecutions when 
 necessary. Each warden is obliged to give a 
 bond of two thousand dollars (.^2,000.00), with 
 ample security, which would compel him, if 
 otherwise disposed, to honestly and faithfully 
 perform the duties of his office. 
 
 In addition to the ten men who are employed 
 constantly, we have some ten or fifteen more 
 who are appointed to act locally, in districts so 
 much isolated, in some instances, as not to be 
 in the routes of travel followed by the regular 
 wardens. Quite a number of these men serve 
 without any pay whatever from the State, 
 simply because they are camp owners, or espe- 
 cially interested in some locality which they 
 wish protected and asked that authority be 
 vested in them to make prosecution when ne- 
 cessary. An instance of this kind I will cite 
 you in tlie perse n who is charged of the Megan- 
 tic Reserve, so called, a portion of which is in 
 Maine and with which you are all familiar. 
 This Supt. we regard as one of our best fish 
 and game preservers on the warden force, and 
 the club by whom he is employed, one of the 
 ideal associations of sportsmen. Without any 
 expense to our State, excepting the most trivial, 
 they carefully guard its game interest, and are 
 thoroughly stocking its water with that most 
 desirable of inland fish, the landlock salmon. 
 Each of these wardens, however, is obliged to 
 give a bond of two thousand dollars, the same 
 as those employed constantly, as a guarantee 
 
— 191 — 
 
 IS when 
 ) give ft 
 lO), with 
 him, if 
 Aithfully 
 
 employed 
 
 ;een more 
 
 istricta so 
 
 not to be 
 
 lie regular 
 
 men serve 
 
 the State, 
 
 s, or espe- 
 
 rhlch they 
 
 thority be 
 
 , when ne- 
 
 I will cite 
 
 ;he Megan- 
 hich is in 
 
 [I familiar, 
 best fish 
 force, and 
 one of the 
 ithout any 
 iost trivial, 
 ;t, and are 
 that most 
 »ck salmon, 
 obliged to 
 the same 
 guarantee 
 
 that ho is not securing the appointment for 
 selfish purposes, enabling" him to violate the law 
 under the guise of being a public servant. 
 
 Possibly I may be over enthusiastic, but so 
 positive am 1 that this system of warden service 
 is superior to that of any other of which I have 
 known, that I feel like r.icommending it to tills 
 association very strongly. In fact I feel that I 
 cannot say too much in its favor. 
 
 With reference to the " guide law " so-called, 
 I feel to say that in its passage we think we 
 have made another very decided advance in the 
 interest of the fish and game protection. The 
 causes which led to the enactment of this law 
 were several. The State is making us an ap- 
 propriation of twenty -five thousand dollars. 
 ($25,000.00) a year for the purpose of propa- 
 gating r.nd distributing fish and for the enforce- 
 ment of the Fish and Gam 3 Livv. While e;.ch 
 of us more or less enthusiastic sportsmen as well 
 as all lovers of nature have a sentimental in- 
 terest in preserving our fish and gante, when 
 we go before a Legislative body and a>k a large 
 appropriation of money, they immediately dis- 
 card the sentimental ideas and ask what the 
 hard, crude facts are, what the financial benefit 
 to the State or Province is, before providinjj: us 
 with the money. We were frequently a:sked 
 the magnitude of the fish and gamy interest, 
 what monies it brought to the State, how many 
 men we.e employed as guides and very many 
 
m 
 
 — 192 — 
 
 fi! 
 
 I? 
 
 
 I 
 
 other pertinent questions, all very necessary to 
 know before the Legislature to act intelligently. 
 
 Such questions, we were unable to answer, 
 specifically : we coulrl give more or less general 
 informations but each year, we found general- 
 ities less availing. This was the primary cause 
 leading to the guides registration laws, as we 
 expected to be able to obtain through its enfor- 
 cement just the information necessary to inform 
 our Legislature and the people of the State 
 with reference to the business. 
 
 Another matter influencing the idea, was the 
 fact that the wild land owners of the State 
 objected very seriously, to having their property 
 used as a public park for camping, hunting and 
 fishing, without adequate protection from forest 
 fires. No wild land owner would pretend to 
 cliim for a moment that the actual injury to 
 Ills property from sportsmen and tourists other 
 than the damr.ge by fire, was a matter of any 
 consequence, but the}^ do feel that the risk to 
 their property is very great when an organized 
 mass of humanity, absolutely ignorant of the 
 dangers resulting from camp fires, are permitted 
 to room without let or hindrance wherever their 
 fancy dictates.. We have abundant forestry 
 laws, but it is extremely difficult to see them 
 fully enforced, unless we can have it done, as 
 we hope to do through the guides. 
 
 Again, prior to the enactment of this law, no 
 person could tell how many guides there v/ere 
 
asary to 
 igently. 
 
 answer, 
 general 
 general- 
 ly cause 
 3, aa we 
 ts cnt'or- 
 ,o inform 
 lie State 
 
 , was the 
 the State 
 ♦ property 
 nting and 
 rom forest 
 retend to 
 injury to 
 ■ists other 
 )r of any 
 lG risk to 
 organized 
 
 Int of the 
 permitted 
 •ever their 
 forestry 
 see them 
 done, as 
 
 ts law, no 
 »ere were 
 
 — 193 — 
 
 in our State, how much they were employed or 
 anything about the gross revenue. Any man, who 
 so chooses, could advertise himself as a guide, 
 whether competent or incompetent in the bu- 
 siness, and, as a result, very nany impositions 
 were practised on our visiting sportsmen by 
 those pretending to bo guides, but who were 
 utterly incompetent to guide properly. We 
 found that every self appointed guide, was 
 disposed to interpret the law in accordance to 
 his own selfish interest. We also found that 
 very many of our visitors (pretended sportsmen 
 only) often induced guides to violate the law 
 for their one selfish interest. The guide, under 
 such circumstances, though he might be well 
 disposed towards th6 observance of our laws,, 
 was virtually helpless, because the sportsmen 
 would sometimes threaten to discharge him and 
 employ others unless he would conform to their 
 wishes. 
 
 Each guide was inclined to follow the business 
 for the most money he could possibly derive 
 from the same, without regard to the future 
 interest of the State ; while the Commissioners 
 were endeavouring to preserve the attractions of 
 the streams and forests so that tliey would last 
 indefinitely. As a result of these various causes 
 and interests, a guide law was enacted which 
 requires each and every person, before he can 
 engage in the business of guiding, to satisfy the 
 Commissioners that he is competent, honest, 
 temperate and of satisfactory habits before he 
 
II 
 
 — 194 — 
 
 can be registered. We find that we have over 
 seventeen hundred (1,700) in our State and yoti 
 can readily realize that in licensing that number, 
 it would be impossible at the start, for any 
 board of Commissioners to avoid making some 
 serious mistakes. Wo have been obliged to rely 
 considerably upon recommendations furnished 
 by either sportsmen or acquaintances ; but, as 
 the license is good for only a single year, we are 
 enabled to detect our own mistakes from time 
 to time, and each year weeds out quite a goodly 
 number who have heretofore engaged in the 
 business. 
 
 We require each guide to keep an accurate 
 account of the number of resident and non- 
 resident persons he guides ; the quantity of 
 fish taken, and the number and kinds of game 
 captured. We require an absolute pledge that 
 he wi!! conform with the laws of the State rela- 
 tive to the preservation of the fish and game ; 
 that he will neither violate them himself or 
 allow it to be done by others ; also that he will 
 report such violations as he knows of being 
 committed by others. We further require that 
 he shall be extremely careful of his camp fires, 
 carefully extinguishing them when breaking 
 camp ; also to assist in bxtinguishing fires 
 no matter how they may originate. 
 
 At the close of the year, or oftener if so 
 requested, he is obliged to make a detailed 
 report, answering all questions preponded by 
 the commissioners and giving such other general 
 
'6 ovef 
 ad yotl 
 umber, 
 or any 
 ig some 
 
 to rely 
 mi shed 
 
 but, as 
 ; we are 
 om time 
 I goodly 
 1 in the 
 
 accurate 
 tnd non- 
 intity of 
 of game 
 dge that 
 tate rela- 
 id game ; 
 mself or 
 it he will 
 of being 
 uire that 
 mp fires, 
 breaking 
 ng fires 
 
 mer if so 
 
 detailed 
 
 londed by 
 
 ir general 
 
 — 196 — 
 
 information ; workings of the laws etc , as he 
 sees fit. Any guide detected in a violation of 
 the laws mentioned is subject to suspension, his 
 license cancelled and himself barred from doing 
 a guiding business for a whole year. This 
 necessarily, as you can see, obliges them to be 
 very discreet and law-abiding. To-day, should 
 any visitor ask a guide to violate the law for 
 his benefit, the guide can easily project himself 
 by telling him of the circumstances : that if 
 known to have had anything to do with such 
 business that his livelih^*^.! is gone for a whole 
 year. The visitor, if he has any spak k of decency, 
 would not ask him a second time ; and thus, the 
 guide is enabled to protect not only himself, 
 but the game also. 
 
 Among the duties of the Commissioners, the 
 Legislature has seen fit to authorize us to esta- 
 blish rules and regulations from time to time 
 with reference to preserving our fish and game ; 
 such rules and regulations being equivalent tp 
 laws. 
 
 Answering your question for a more parti- 
 cular statement regarding this matter, I will sa}'^ 
 that until a few years ago, our Statutes were 
 lumbered — if I may use the expression — with 
 very many special laws affecting small localities 
 only. The way and manner of establishing such 
 laws were as follows : Some one person or few 
 people interested, either selfishly or otherwise 
 as the case might be, would request their repre- 
 sentative to the Legislature to introduce some 
 
196 — 
 
 law for enactment, preventing fishing in certain 
 streams, lakes or ponds, or to prevent hunting 
 in certain localities, for a series of years. The 
 representative himself, might or might noh be 
 interested, but in deference to the wishes of 
 those electing him, he felt obliged to urge its 
 passage. The Capital being so far away from 
 the locality affected, and the measure not of 
 sufficient importance to create extended notices 
 in the newspapers, only one side was represent- 
 ed, and as a result very many useless and fre- 
 quently senseless laws were enacted. After care- 
 fully considering the matter, a codified form of 
 laws was introduced to the Legislature, cover- 
 ing all matters of a general nature as far as 
 possible, and repealing through its enactment, 
 the special legislation then existing in our 
 Statute. They then delagated authority as 
 previously stated, for the Commissioners to act 
 upon the minor matters affecting localities, 
 rather than the State, specifying that such rules 
 and regulations as we should establish, all of 
 which, by the way, lapse in four years, — should 
 be equivalent — to laws enacted by the Legisla- 
 ture and sfubject to the same penalties for viola- 
 tion. . i 
 
 Our ordinary method of establishing each 
 rules is to hold hearings in the locality to be 
 affected when petitioned so to do, having pre- 
 viously advertised such hearings, so that the 
 parties interested, either for or against the mea- 
 sure, can be heard. 
 
1 certain 
 hunting 
 ars. The 
 b nob be 
 rishes of 
 urge its 
 ray from 
 •e not of 
 3d notices 
 •epvesent- 
 s and f re- 
 iter care- 
 id form of 
 ire, cover- 
 ! as far as 
 enactment, 
 ig in our 
 hority as 
 iiiers to act 
 localities, 
 such rules 
 ilish, all of 
 rs,— should 
 ke Legisla- 
 is for viola- 
 
 |shing each 
 
 2ality to be 
 
 laving pre- 
 
 to that the 
 
 kst the mea- 
 
 — 197 — 
 
 We are frequently obliged to refuse to esta- 
 blish any regulations, even though we may be 
 in full sympathy with the idea, simply because 
 public sentiment in the local itj'^ will not warrant 
 us in granting the request of the petitioner. It 
 frequently happens however, that after we have 
 one or more times refused to grant such petition, 
 the result of our hearings and a full discussion 
 of the matter in the community will cause a 
 change of sentiment, so that we feel warranted 
 in reversing our former decision and granting 
 the prayer. 
 
 Legislative acts require no posting or notices of 
 the law ; but by the rules and regulations of the 
 Commissioners, we are obliged to have printed 
 and advertised, also copies posted in conspicuous 
 places in the locality affected. The scope of the 
 power of the Commissioners in this matter is 
 better stated in the law itself, than I am capable 
 cf doing : it states that we may regulate the 
 times and places in which, and the circumstances 
 under which, fish and game may be taken. 
 
 In closing, allow me to state that we have 
 succeeded in illiininating politics coinpletly in 
 selecting our wardens and licensing our gui'les. 
 No warden is asked whether he is a Republican 
 or a Democrat ; we have representatives of both 
 parties on our force, and I regard it as a prime 
 requisite for you as well as ourselves to always 
 adopt this policy. 
 
 
V 
 
IISTDEX 
 
 Pages. 
 
 Annual meeting, Place of< 17 21 
 
 Bags of game, Limit the n 54 
 
 County j2 
 
 Cold storage... ,, , hq 
 
 Coupon tiag system _ 12 
 
 Constitution, committee on.. ig 
 
 Close ieason, Exports to find out proper times. 8 
 
 Dogs chasing deer lOQ 
 
 Divorced from politico 9 
 
 Enforce laws, The way to g 
 
 Encouraging the protection of fish and game 
 
 protection clubs ..,. 144 
 
 Fish killed, Limiting number of. „ . . . . 11 
 
 Fish culture.... , U 
 
 Fishing and hunting territories, sale of 15 
 
 Fishing license........ 28 
 
 Guide system. 45 
 
 Gun license 28 
 
 Game Protective Association, Encouragement 
 
 to.. 15 
 
 Harmonizing of Fish and Game Laws of the 
 
 Provinces and States, Committee of ...... . 7 
 
 Hunting License.... 28. 
 
 Hatcheries.... 5g 
 
 Incorporated club 30 
 
 Insectivorous Birds, Protection of n 
 
 Killing with dogs 13 
 
 Killing in the water I3 
 
 License Coupon system 93 
 
 License for buyers or sellers ]4 
 
200 IKDBXt 
 
 Pages. 
 
 Leases to club 15 
 
 License to fish 28 
 
 Lectures, Illustrated 12 
 
 Licensed Guide System 10 
 
 Leasing of hunting and fishing territories 128 
 
 Market men and game dealers 107 
 
 Members present , 3 
 
 Methods of planting 12 
 
 Name of the Association 7 
 
 Non sale of game 127 
 
 Officers elected 6 
 
 Officers of the Convention 18 
 
 Prosecution for infraction ... 9 
 
 Press contribution 10,25 
 
 Protection of song birds 11 
 
 Protection of insectivorous birds 11 
 
 Promotive Committee 19 
 
 Questions discuosed 5 
 
 Remission of fines 9 
 
 Size and number offish killed 57 
 
 Song birds and insectivorous-birds, absolute 
 
 protection at all season of 52 
 
 Sale of game 13 
 
 Sale of game, Restriction of 14 
 
 Spring Shooting, Prohibition of 16 
 
 Song Birds*, Protection of 11 
 
 Suspension of sentences.... 9 
 
 Shooting deer in the water 106 
 
 Transportation and sale of game.... 12 
 
 Transportation Companies 16 
 
 Universal gun license 28, 35 
 
 Warden 27 
 
 Wolves and wild cats. Bounties for the killing 
 
 of 95 
 
Pages. 
 
 .... 15 
 
 .... 28 
 
 .... 12 
 
 10 
 
 128 
 
 107 
 
 3 
 
 12 
 
 7 
 
 127 
 
 6 
 
 18 
 9 
 
 10,25 
 
 .... 11 
 
 11 
 
 19 
 
 . .... 5 
 
 9 
 
 57 
 
 Dlute 
 
 52 
 
 13 
 
 14 
 
 ..... 16 
 
 ■ ■ « ■ « ^ ^ 
 
 9 
 
 106 
 
 12 
 
 16 
 
 28,35 
 
 27 
 
 illing 
 95