i». ^%. .0^. \^ IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) // ^ J^^4^. v^^%* %o 1.0 Hi 125 1= S ^ S 1 2.0 « ^ III ^ ■UUI. I.I mil 1 Q 1.25 1.4 1.6 y] J%i /i 7 f^> ^>:^' ^^y •^ '/ w CIHM/ICMK Microfiche Series. CIHM/ICMH Collection de microfiches. Canadian Institute for Historical Microreprodiictions Institut Canadian de microreproductions historiques 1980 Technical Notes / Notes techniques The Institute has attempted to obtain the best original copy available for filming. Physical features of this copy which may alter any of the images in the reproduction are checked below. D Coloured covers/ Couvertures de couleur L'Institut a microfilm6 le meilleur exemplaire qu'il lui a 4t4 possible de se procurer. Certains dAfauts susceptibles de nuire A la quality de la reproduction sont not6s ci-dessous. D Coloured pages/ Pages de couleur Th po of fill Th CO or ap D Coloured maps/ Cartes giographiques en couleur D Coloured plates/ Planches en couleur Th filr ins D Pages discoloured, stained or foxed/ Pages dicolor^K '^, tachetdes ou piquies Tight binding (may cause shadows or distortion along interior margin)/ Reliure serr6 (peut cauoer de I'ombre ou de la distortion le long de la marge intdrieure) D D Show through/ Transparence Peges damaged/ Pages endommag^es in I upi boi fol Additional comments/ Commentaires suppl6mentaires Original copy restored and laminated. Bibliographic Notes / Notes bibiiographiques D D Only edition available/ Seule Mition disponible Bound with other material/ Reli6 avec d'autres documents D Pagination incorrect/ Erreurs de pagination Pages missing/ Des pages manquent D Cover title missing/ Le titre de couverture manque D IVIaps missing/ Des cartes gdographiques manquent ■ir^ D Plates missing/ Dies planches manquent Additional comments/ Blanic leaves added during restoration may appear within the text. Commentaires supplAmentaires Whenever possible, these have been omitted from filming. The images appearing here are the best quality possible considering the condition and legibility of the original copy and in keeping with the filming contract specifications. Les images suivantes ont At* reproduites avec le plus grand soin, compte tenu de la condition et de la netteti de I'exemplaire filmA, et en conformity avec les conditions du contrat de filmage. The last recorded frame on each microfiche shall contain the symbol — ^ (meaning CONTINUED"), or the symbol V (meaning "END"), whichever applies. The original copy was borrowed from, and filmed with, the kind consent of the following institution: Library of the Public Archives of Canada Maps or plates too large to be entirely included in one exposure are filmed beginning in the upper left hand corner, left to right and top to bottom, as many frames as required. The following diagrams illustrate the method: Un des s/mboles suivants apparaTtra sur la der- niire image de cheque microfiche, selon le cas: le symbole — ► signifie "A SUIVRE". le symbols V signifie "FIN". L'exemplaire filmA fut reproduit grAce A la g4n«rosit6 de i'Atablissement prAteur suivant : La bibliothAque des Archives publiques du Cemada Les cartes ou les planches trop grandes pour Atre reproduites en un seul clichA sont filmAes A partir de Tangle supArieure gauche, de gauche A droite et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images nAcessaire. Le diagramme suivant illustre la mAthode : '¥i 1 2 3 4 S 6 1 Aa pai tbe Ri( em of pog cs ten bU£ lik( wri the Gb) eye mis alw Uer me po» rob exc ed wat $lou$e of Commons Bebates* FOURTH SESSION-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT. SPEECH ]Sr. F. DA YIN, M.P. OH THE ADDRESS OTTAWA, FRIDAY 24th MARCH, 1899 Mr. NICHOLAS FLOOD DAVIN (West Assinibola). Mr. Speaker, although, Sir, ap- parently carrying out the ministerial rule, the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Sir Richard Cartwright) I'^ not In his place, I em inclined to yield to nis appeal to be one of those to shorten this debate as much as possible, because I thinly it desirable that cs far as is consistent with the public in- terest, we should proceed quiclily with the business of the Ilouse ; and also because I lllie the hou. gentleman (Sir Richard Cart- wright) although ever since 1887, when I had the temerity to cross swords with him In this Chamber, be has looked on me with bating eyes of scorn ; a thing that I attribute to a misconception on his part because I have always thought that the reason the bon. gen- tleman (Sir Richard Cartwrlghv) looked upon me with such an evil eye, was, that he sup- posed me to be a manufacturer— one of the robbers great asd robbers small, who used to excite hlB ire, end who were so long ensconc- ed In the branches of the Upas tree which was to be torn up, and whence they shot so severely at the people of Oafiada. But, Mr. Speaker, there are reasons why It is Impossi- ble that any man true to his duty to the peo- ple of Canada ; above all, any man true to his duty to the North-west Territories, shoald allow the debate on the Address on this oc- casion to go by without close and careful aud stringent comment. Let me call the attention of the Ronse to His Bxcellency's Speech. It com- raences with an Illusion to the fact that the country is prosperous. As has been well said, we all thank Gk>d for that There I is no doubt that heaven, and earth too, have tad something to do with It. Then we are treated to a reference to the negotiations of the international commission which took place during tUe recess, and that is really the eommencetaent of this Barmecldal bili of fare. We aie treated In this banquet to which we are invited, In the first place to the cold soup of a consummate f allqis, and then we get fur entries, first the plebts- cite— an outrage , an outrage from erory point of view you regard it. 1 shall not go elaborately into that, but from whatever point of view yon regard the plebiscite i IhlfiS^J \ having regard to the lately exposed policy of the Government, it Is an outrage. One of the first and most prominent achievements of this Government was to Inaugurate unconsti- tutional methods. You, Mr. Speaker, as a student of the British constitution know well that a pleWiwrte Is contrary to that constitution of whicL we have a replica in Canada, and yet the first thing that was done by my right hon. friend (Sir "Wilfrid Laurier). blnjsclf a student or a supposed siuuent of our constitution, was to Inau- gurate the plebiscite. Well, what has hap- pened ? A quarter of a million dollars, which might have been spent most fruitfully In the North-west Territories for instance, In seeking for water in those parts of that fertile country where water has not been found, was spent— for what purpose ? For the purpose of not having it forced on the Prime Minister of Canada to say a plain yes or no as to what was the policy of the Government on so important a question as prohibition. That is the first course. Then we have the penny postage. I see the Hon. Wllliam~oh. I beg pardon. So historical has " I, William Mulock," become that I had nearly committed a breach of parliamentary etiquette and referred to him, not as my hon. friend from York, but In his character as the great stamp dictator— who will go down to history as that Postmaster General who was perpetually Issuing stamps which he had perpetually to recall. That Is the second course. Then we come to the plfice de resistance, which Is the reference to the fact that there Is gold In the Yukon ; and because there Is much gold In the Yukon, the Inference Is irresist- ible that my right hon. friend who leads the House Is a great statesman, and that the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Slfton) Is a heaven-born administrator ; and the menu which commences with the cold soup of fail- ure ends with the menace of an outrage. It ends with the menace that my right hon. friend intends to bring In at an unconstitu- tional period a redistribution Bill, for which he has no authority under the British North America Act. That is the Queen's Speech. We will take the first course ; Is there anything for the farmer in the cold soup of a protracted failure ? Is there anything for him In the entrees ? Is there anything at aJI In this Barmecldal menu that can satisfy the farmer who Is accustomed to nourishing, invigorat- ing food ? No ; he has to fill himself with the east wind of a Queen's Speech such as has never been presented to Parliament be- fore. Well, this is the fourth session of this Parliament. I may tell the bead of the Government that a short time ago I travelled west with a leading supporter of his, a man well known In Ontario, a leading man In Waterloo, a man who has spent his money and his time, who has travelled here and there and fought on platform after platform —for what ? For Liberalism, as he told me in tones of indignation— for the Liberal- ism of George Brown, for tariff reform, for fi-ee trade, for a revenue tariff. He had fought for all these ; and I said to him, " What do you do now ?" He said, " I sit and howl." " Well," I said, " what are you going to do ?" He said, " I am waiting for the coming session, and many a Liberal In Ontario is doing the same, and if in the coming session they do not redeem their promises, and do not show themselves true to Liberalism, then I will take the stump, and as I fought for them In the past, I will fight against them In the future." Now, Sir, I will ask the attention of the House for a few moments to the constitu- tional aspect of the situation which we have now before us ; for, Mr. Speaker, it is a most extraordinary situation. We have seen here since the House met the extraor- dinary spectacle of two or three Ministers of the Crown and theJr supporters rising and praising the policy of the Opposition. One man after another comes forward, and takes credit for some plank, some time- honoured plank in the platform of the Oon- servative party. This was especially the case with the speech of the Prime Min- ister and that of the Minister of Trade and Commerce. It is a spectacle which has rare- ly been manifested In this House, and It Is a spectacle to which I want to call the attention of Parliament from a con- stitutional point of view. Now, Mr. Speaker, what Is onr constitution ? We have in England a king or a queen ; we have the House of Lords, and we have the House of Commons. We have in Canada the Governor General representing Her Ma- jesty ; we have a second chamber, the Sen- ate ; and we have the House of Commons. The House of Commons Is the great power, because it controls the purse. And we have, as we say here, self-government. Now, suppose you were to take our constitution and transfer it to Cuba, would It work ? Would It work In the Philippine Islands among the Filipinos ? Everybody knows it would not work there— and why ? For this reason, that the people of Cuba and tht Filipinos, In their present state of develop- ment, are utterly unfit for this constitutional government which we enjoy In England and In all the self-governing colonies of the Em- pire. When you cast your eye over Europe, you find In Russia a strong government, but no Individual liberty. In Germany you have a strong government and constitutional government, but individual liberty Is greatly circumscribed. In France you have neither a strong government nor Individual liberty. As for Italy or Spain, I will not refer to them. Only In England and In our self- governing colonies has this great problem been solved of uniting a strong executive with almost boundless individual liberty. Why is that ? It Is not because of our system of king, lords and commons, or of Governor General, a Senate and a House of Commons, with an extended franchise ; but It Is because the men In these countries— In 7S^77 England, In Canada and the other self-gov- «rning colonies of the Empire — are trained In self-goyernment. What enables us to bare this admirable constitutional, system, which does not exist and has never existed, in any country of the world outsidb of Great Britain and her colonies, is not the mechani- cal form of the constitution. It is not the wide suffrage ; it is not the balanced sys- tem of king, lords and commons. It is because you have a people trained in self- government ; in other words, because you have a community where organized public opinion is possible. How is that organized public op'nlon created and expressed ? Sometimes in newspapers, sometimes in hotel parlours ; sometimes in public meetings In school-houses ; sometimes in vast public meetings in towus and cities ; in the home ; In the mart ; at the fair ; In the forum ; at the street corner ; In the blacksmith's forge ; in the barber's shop ; and especially Is it shaped and expressed at those recurring per- iods when the Parliament of Canada, the Lower House, which is the great wheel in the mechanical part of our system, is remade, because its life is for five years, unless tht* Governor General should have some rea- son to end it before. What happens then ? You have then throughont the entire conn- try that Immense wheel of organized public opinion going at full momentum, going at full power. In meeting after meeting. You have men going before their (ellow-citizens —the one side saying : We have been in power so long, vote for us. rx)ok at our policy, that policy has been successful ; we have served you well, we have been econo- mical, we have kept down the public debt, and, as far as was consistent with the progress of the country kept down the expenditure ; we have, as far as In us lay, punished boodllng and whatever went wrong ; we have been a pure and clean Administration. But then comes another set of men, who say : Do not vote for them, but for us. Thelp policy is bad 5 they are extravagant ; tliey have not kept down the debt ; they have not kept down the ex- penses ; they have been lavish In expendi- ture — vote for us ; we will administer your affairs better, and, above all, we will change their policy. Is it not manifest to you, Mr. Speaker, and every man within my hear- ing, that that great wheel of organized pub- lic opinion is connected with the smaller wheel that sends the power on to the opera- tive machinery, by what I call the belt of confidence between the public and public men ? Destroy the confidence in the minds of the people that public men mean what they say. and will thoy go to the meetings ? Would the meetings be anything but show, not a dumb, but a noisy show, without meaning ? Would they listen for a moment to those public men unless they had some confidence In their professions ? So that one or two things Is required In order that onr system shall work. First, you must have confidence in the public mind that public men will do N F D— IJ what they pvomlse, or, falling to do It, that they will be held to a strict account and pun- ished for their failure. Where shall we be If men can get into power and then turn round and laugh at the people, and laugh especially at the party with which they are connected, and which they have led ? Let me recall what happened here in this Dominion up to 1896. I need not go bP.ck further than 1803, when, in this very town, a vast concourse that might have swelled any man's heart with pride to look down upon, met to greet my hon. friend the leader of the great Liberal party iSir Wilfrid Lau- rier). Those three thousanil representatives met heie, and what did they do ? They for- mulated the policy of the great Liberal party. The right hon. gentleman himself pointed out that the policy formulated that day was a much more solemn thing than it he simply, by his ipse dixit, declared what would be the policy of that party. On that eventful day committees were struck, and in those committees resolutions were carefully drafted by the foremost men in the party, and then adopted by the whole meeting and sent broadcast throughout all Canada as the policy of the Liberal party. Foremost, came the policy of tariff reform. Nay, not tariff reform, for tariff reform is my own phrase ; it Is what I contended for, it is what the men believing in the policy of the late Government called for, but what the Liberal party proposed was tariff revo- lution, not tariff reform.. And my right hon. friend. In the speech he made, and which is published in the bound volume containing the official report of the proceedings of that meeting, and which speech I have carefully ! read, sometimes with admiration, some- i times with amazement, aud sometimes with such feelings as it will be Impossible to give expression to. said, in supporting the resolo- tion with regard to the tariff, that he em- phasized the determination expressed in that j resolution— to do what ? To touch the fringe of the subject, to touch only a leaf on the tree, to amend one little tiny Infr nt twig protruding from a branch ? No, but to up- i root the Upae tree of protection ; and f may tell you, Mr. Speaker, that It would' have been salutary for him, if he could have seen the I expression on the faces of Liberals when I I read to them, as I have done throughout j the length and breadtli of tlie North-west 1 some of those eloquent expressions of his ! with regard to the tariff, and which I deem I it my duty to read to you now. In that I eloquent speech, supporting the resolution I for the destruction of the tariff, he said : Apart from the ;oglo of events, you have th« i word of Mr. Fost)r himself, who has declared I sgalD and agiln within the last few weeks, that tariff reform would consist In this I draw the attention of the House to what follows ; for if some goblin imp had perched on the shoulder of the right hon. gentle- man, if we could believe, as was believed In other days, that invisible creatures of the r goblin species influenced our minds, if some such goblin, fully determined to cynically show up human natui*e, bad lit on the shoulder of the Prime Minister and prompt- ed him. It could not have prompted words that would have painted him as he would be In the near future, in more disastrous colours of satirical contrast and consummate mockery. Tluit there might be a few changes here and there, but that the principle of the National Pol- Icy would be maintained. Thi» simply means You can easily understs^d, Mr. Speaker, with what grace of gesture my right hon. friend, who is a master of rhetoric, used this language. This simply means that the Oovernment are going to scratch off the paint and put »n a narw coat of varnish and call It tariff reform. Well, I may tell you that Liberal farmer after Liberal farmer, when I read that, laughed as If It were one of the t)e8t jokes aver made—" that they would scratch off the paint and put on a new coat of varnish and call it reform of the tariff." Why, these hon. gentlemen have not even scratched off the paint and put on a new coat of varnish. At one time my right hon. friend. In a fit of candour, which was a little inconsistent on talB part, and I do not think he should break Into the inconsistency of candour— said : I do not mind wearing the clothes of my opponents, if they fit me. He might Just as well have said : I do not mind wearing the clothes of my opponents. If I steal them. But his colleagues go around the country and they say, not that they have scratched off the varnish and put on a new coat of paint, but that they have fulfilled all their promises. With a brazen effrontery such as there^ is no power of language to describe, : they stand on the public platform before In- telligent men and say : We have fulfilled our pledges. They put their arms akimbo, and, with the effrontery of a class of per- sons who are not usually clad, however, as the portion of humanity that we belong to, with the effrontery of a brazen scold, they assert that they have done what they have not done, and proclaim their title to a virtue which the whole woild knows they have not The National Policy, the right hon. gentle- man said, must be got rid of entirely, and not merely the branches. After I had spoken at Reglna and «}uoted some of these utter- anc<>ci, Liberals waited on me and asked me to allow them to see the speech of the right j hrc. gentleman from which I had made] tueso quotations. They could not believe i tha*^ the right hon. gentleman had used such { Ian ,uage. and I showed them his speech, ; and drew their special attention to these | words : You know It has been the system of the Con- ■errative party, more than once, whenever their clothes became dilapidated, ^o steal th<> 'iiothes of their opponents and present themselves beforo the people decently attired. This Is what they want to do again, and on this occasion I do not object to their stealing our clothes, May I asl; the right hon. gentleman's atten- tion to these words : but I do object to their appearing before the country in false colours. I can assure my right hon. friend that when I read that I cannot refrain from laughing. They want to reform the tariff and still retain the principle of protection. I submit to you that the ideal fl?ca'. system Is the British systeri of free trade. Sir, my loyalty, as I stated, does not vMi'o from the pores of my body, but I do want to go for an example Co the mother country and not to the United States, much as 1 respect £!!4 love the people on the other side of the line. I say that the policy should be a policy of free trade such as they have In Bngland. Now, the right hon. gentleman came west, and he was heralded by articles in the " Globe " which described him as the future saviour of Canada, because he would do away witli protection. And. not content with this, there was a picture which repre- sented my right hon. friend as the good Samaritan bending over the North-west far- mer and pouring into his open wounds the oil of revenue tariff and into his gaping and gasping mouth the wine of free trade as it is in England. Well, If any of that oil reached a wound of that prostrate North-west far- mer, I do not think it would be enough to lubricate the spring of the smallest Geneva watch,' that ever ticked, and if any of the wine of free trade as it is in Eng- land touched his gullet, I do not think It was enough to disturb the cerebral equani- mity of the smallest and youngest chip- munk on the prairie. Well, he came to Moosomln and at Moo- somin he was accompanied by the hon. Min- ister of Agriculture (Mr. Fisher), who, ru- mour tells us. has resigned in consequence of the tergiversation of the Government on the plebiscite question. Mr. SAM. HUGHES (North Victoria). Has he resigned ? a^r. DAVIN. I am told that the Minister of Agriculture, disgusted with the policy of the Government on the plebi8c'*:e, has re- signed. But he may possibly come back. Now, Sir, he declared at Moosomln that 2C per cent on implements was an outrage. And he said : If we get in it will be taken off. The words I read here last session when 1 interrupted the Minister of Customs (Mr. Paterson). He said the people of the North- west and Manitoba have bad to pay through the nose, this 20 per cent amount- ing to a considerable sum— I think It was about $14,000. Now, what would the North- west farmer who heard that or who read it think ? Would he not think that If these gentlemen came into power there would be relief as to that 20 per cent on larger im- plements ? But the 20 per cent is there to- day. Would he not think there would be re- lief Id regard to the smaller ImplementB 1 Why, Sir, there Is a higher duty on tbeM binaller Implements than that fixed by Sir Leonard Tllley's tariff In 1879, which the late Mr. Mackenzie declared to be prohl- l)lt)ory, and the present Minister of Trade -and Commerce characterized as an outrage. A pamphlet has been distributed through- out the North-west Territories and Mani- toba, and I have no doubt it has been distributed throughout Ontario as well. That pamphlet contains the speeches of Hon. W. S. Fielding, Hon. Sir Richard Cartwrlght, and Hon. Wm. Paterson. By referring to pages 52, 53, 54 and 55 of that pamphlet, you gee that the hon. Minister of Customs (Mr. Paterfon) gives a list of articles in regard -to which he suggests that the preferential tariff gives an advantage io the people o' *^f country and especially to the farmers. When that speech was being delivered, I did not understand th3 object of it. If you will turn to " Hansard " you will find that I suggested that hardly any of these articles came from England, and so .were not affected by the preference. Of course, such a representation as that made by the hon. Minister could not •deceive ns here, because all we had to do 'was to send for the Trade and Navigatlpq Returns— 1 ho-^g them here— and by consult- ™S ..lese we could see at once that the ilgures in that tabulated statement were de- lusive. If I were spealcing elsewhere, I would use stronger language than that. Now, let me call attention to what is stated In this speech, and let me bring before you and be- fore this House the enormity of the conduct of a man !n the position of the Mlnistei- ol Customs in perpetrating such an or en the people of Canada, and especlK... itJui farming community a« is to be fout In thl.s speech. I linow now why this speecu was made. We could see through It, it did not deceive us ; tout the poor people lii the country, who would only see this pamphlet and would not have the Trade and Naviga- tion Returns before them to expose the ■ fraud would not know the character of the trick that was being played upon them. Now, this is what the hon. gentleman says : Bvery one of these articles Is an absolute ne- cessity, and Is used by every agriculturist ia I the country la his house or on his farm. Among the articles I ask attention to is a long list ot 1 agricultural implements over and above that j 'Which I have read, and I ask attention to the re- I ductlous as answering the question whether the •Qovernmant has carried out its pledges to reduce the duty on agricultural implements and to re- duce the burdens resting upon the farmer. The list of articles, with tb-s new rate under the preferential duties and tUe percentage of reduc- tion from the old rates is as follows: Now, If any farmer who has this book In b!a possession will turn to page .53, he will find one of the first items on the list to be springs and axles. What has the free trade revenue tariff done for the farmer in regard to springs anl axles 7 Or what has the right Jhon. gentleman done who was heralded by the " Globe " to the North-west farmer as the good Samaritan ? Nay, more, there was a companion picture which represented the North-west fanner lying manacled, with gyves on his wrists and chains on his ankles, and on these links was writteu " 30 per cent, 25 per cent, 22i per cent on cottons," and showed the benevolent Prime Minister bend- ing over and tiling off the links. I am afr.iid that file belonged to goods of the wooden nutmeg order. I do not think it could make m\ich Impression on the chains, for, the chains are there still. Now springs and axles— what do you think has been done ? Why, every farmer in the country will throw up his cap the moment the name, the sacred name, of Wilfrid Lau- rler is heard ; he will throw up his cap and fry : What wondeiy have been accomplished by this great uuu »oo« n:an ! "What were springs and axles under the old tariff 1 As is seen in the first column, on page 53 of this pamphlet, 38 per cent. But what re- duction ? 3 per cent ; down to 35 pei" cent. $35 in the hundred, the revenue tariff cf free trade as It Is In England, that wine of free trade that was poured copiously down the throat of the poor North-west farmer ! Some- body saye : But look at the preference tbat is given to the English manufactured gooda I in our market, anu see what that will do'. I But the poor farmer who reads that extra- ' ordinary and outrageous sentence Jutrd- duclng these columns, the podr ftttffler who has not the Trade and Navigation Returtis which are now In my hand, and which I ask i any hon. gentlemen opposite to turn up and look over— he does not know that we do not I get springs and axles from England at all, hat they all come from the United States, and that we could not get them In the j Mure of the case, from England, because I the springs and axles they make In England would not siiit the carriages and wagons we have here. So that here you have It held out to the farmer that he gets springs and axles at 26J per cent. Suppose he did get them at 20i per cent, Is not that a high per- centage ? From the place where the hon. gentleman who leads this Opposition sits, In 1879 Mr. Alexander Mackenzie declared that 25 per cent was prohibitive. And, Sir Rich- ard Cartwright declared that 25 per cent was an outrage. And here you have held up to the farmer that 2GJ per cent Is a panacea for all his Ills, a great boon, some- thing that he ought to honour the Liberal leaders for. But here is the outrage, here Is the painful thing about that. I could hardly tell you with what pain, as a mem- ber of this House. ,1 find myself J^iMled on to refer to It. The painful Wm Is that even that statement of 261 per cent Is a fraud. Now, Sir, we take some other things. Take files and rasps. The f.irmer needs them. What are they under the present tariff 7 30 per cent ; the great bulk comes from the United States. Adzes. 30 per cent ; cleavers, 30 per cent ; hatchets. 30 per cent ; saws, 30 per cent ; wedges, 30 per cent ; .^ baumera, 30 per cent ; crowbars, 30 per cent ; picks, 80 per 'cent ; mattocks, 80 per cent. Well, 8lr, there Is a preference, btit when you look at these Trade and Navigation Returns on which my hand now roHts. and which are open to the Inspection of anybody over there you will And that too ad- vantage under that preference comes to the farmer. Mr. Speaker, I want your special attention to this. When, Sir, you used tq sit a little behind where my hon. friend the member for York (Mr. Wallace) sits to-day, 1 remember that you made a most elaborate, speech upon cotton, and you showed to this House and to the country what an outrage It was that there should be the high duty imposed by a Tory Government. Now, I want to show you thte,— because 1 think that it might even Impart a sense of liveli- ness to the somewhat monotonous posi- tion you occupy. On page 54—1 will assume that you have the pamphlet In your hand and can turn to It— you will find cottdn fabrics unbleached, under the first or Tory column, 224 per cent Now, what great thing has been done for the farmer ? I want the House to understand what has been done. It has been sent down at a run from 22i to 2.5 per cent ! Marvellous ! Why, Sir, we should have three cheers with a tiger for the Liberal leaders, they are so loyal to ■ Liberalism. Then there is the preference. But what is the use of the preference ? Tho great bulk of unbleached cotton comes from the United States, and only 217,159 yards from England. Here are the Trade and Navigation Returns that show the mon- strous character of this work of my hon. friend the Minister of Customs— and I am glad to see that he is in his place. I suppose he has been sent for. He has been straying away from school, and has been sent for. I wish the Prime Minister would discipline all his Ministers, because ever since the meeting of this House the members of the Government have done what Mr. Wade and Mr. McGregor did in the Yukon : The mo- ment Mr. Ogllvie was sent up there as commissioner, , the two great criminals fled. And when we are here now trying the fore- most political ciimlnals on this continent, they disappear from the dock. Now we come to coloured fabrics. The Minister of Cus- toms could have done something for us there. The farmer's wife, tbe farmer's daughter, the young ladies in towns, wear coloured cotton fabrics. And, Mr. Speaker, I do not know that there is anything pleas- anter than to see a young lady well and properly attired In a coloured cotton fabric. Something could have been done there, and I will tell you why. Out of 34 million yards of coloured cottons that were Imported Into this country. 24 million yards came from Bngland, so that some three-fourths come from Bngland. Something could have been done there. What was done ? But It was not the Minister of Customs who did this, It was my hon. friend. the Minister of Finance who did this. What does the gallant Min- ister of Finance do, who, I am told, used to- be— In a thoroughly drawing room way, of course— in those years that have paaaed awny for Iwth of us, a squire of dames ? We should have expected something gallant from him, and what does he do for the young ladies ? What does he do for the fairer por- tion of creation ? Well, he saw that the pre- ference waa coming Into play, that 24 mil- lions yards were Imported from England out of the 84 millions, and that the manufacturer might possibly be hit, the manufacturer that you. Sir, proved from your place In Parlia- ment to be such a robber, that cotton manu- facturer who you proved was sweating the money out of Uie people. When the Minister of Finance saw what this poor manufacturer would suffer. It went to his heart. He looked at the old Tory tariff, which was 30 per cent Why, 30 per cent is very high. It Is 5 per cent higher than what Alexander Mackenzie s^d was prohll)itory In 1879. But his heart fails him for the sufferings of the poor manufac- turer, and thereupon he soys : Before that preference comes into play, we will put on & per cent And so this revenue-tariff Minis- ter, this free-trade Minister, sends It down at a run from 30 to 35 per cent ! Shenstone says, speaking ol some one In his day : He kicked him down stairs with such a sweet grace, You might have thought he was handing him up. These gentlemen opposite have kicked the manufacturer down In such a pleasant manner that the manufacturer finds himself, after having been kicked down stairs, as my hon. friend the member for Centre Toronto (Mr. Bertram) declares, in the drawing room, in the best room on the first floor. The member for Centre Toronto Is a dis- tinguished ornament of the band made- up of " robbers great and robbers small " who were to be kicked down stairs, but who are up on the first floor,( In the best room and as for my hon. friend (Mr. Bertram) why he Is in the best arm-chair. It is a de- lightful spectacle. I remember my late la- mented leader, the Right Hon. Sir John Mac- donald, used to tell a story which, I sup- pose, without infringing on the dignity of this House, I may be permitted to relate. It was that of a Cheap John at a fair sell- ing slices of bread and butter, which were quickly disposed of and so deftly that a man in the crowd cried out : " First he butters them up and then he slithers them down." That is the way the Government is treat- ing the manufacturers ; first Ihey butter them up, and then they slither them down, and they do not feel it. Well, Sir, take cur- tains which, now that our farmers are pros- perous—and I moy tell you that I am glad to bear my testimony here to the prosperity of the North-west— are important to our people. The North-west Is prosperous like the rest of Canada. The farmer's wife wants curtains ; curtains are 35 per cent— under the old tariff they were 80^ per cent They have sent them down from- so to 35 per cent ! Is that not maKUiflcent' an a free trade tariff ? Is it not magnificent as a revenue tariff,— the wliie of free trade as it is In England, the oil of Joy of rev- enue tariff ! Well, take liandlierphlefs ; every polite person needs handlcerchlefs. and the preference would undoubtedly have done us good in England, because we get many of our handkprchiefs there. Lest tlie Government should hit the poor manufac- turer too hard they sent the duty down from 30 to 35 per cent. We come then to woollens. Now, here In this country, but especially in the North-west, semi-arctic as we acknowledge it is, we ought to expect some consideration. Many persons outside think t B climate of the North-west is se- vere, but no man has ever lived there for a short time without feeling that there i-^ no climate in the world so stimulating, ho delightful, so that even when the glass is low you do not feel cold. But we must wear woollens there, and there is no doubt whatever that the preference on Englisk goods would have helped the farmer. But what does the Finance Minister do ? Be- fore that hammer of the 25 per cent pre- ference goes down on the manufacturer, the Finance Minister in his pity for the poor fellow, sends it up from 30 to 35 per cent ! Under the old tni'lff of 1894-05 it wa?i 30 per cent, but they sent it up by the tariff for revenue, the free-trade-as-lt-is-in Eng- land tariff to 35 per cent. Take tweeds and flannels. These were sent down at a run from 32i per cent to 35 per cent : carpets, from 30 per cent to 35 per cent ; umbrellas 35 per cent, and so on. Well now. Sir, do you not think, Mr. Speaker, that It requires some audacity for any man to stand upon the platform and say that these gentlemen who are now in power and who call them- selves the leaders of the Liberal party have fulfilled their pledges in regard to the tariff, or that they have been true to the principles of the liberal party ? Where Is the Ivlb- eral party ? Mr. Speaker, no man knows more about the Liberal party than you do. Sir, you were to my knowledge the trusted and bosom friend of the late Hon. George Brown, and you were to my knowledge the trusted and bosom friend of the late Hon. Alexander Mackenzie ; no man should know more about the principles of the Liberal party than yourself. And. Sir, I think it will be in your conscience when I -say here that In the face of the promises we have heard, and which I have read, in the face of the resolutions passed in 1893, in the face of the well-known principles that the Lib- eral party enunciated for eighteen yeiirs while the Liberal-Conservative party was in power. In the fac«3 of the well-known prin- ciples of the Liberal party for the last thirty years, these gentlemen who are now in power are not the leaders of that party. There must be amongst the Liberals in this House some who are not office seekers. An hon. MEMBER. There are none. Mr. DAVIN. That is candid : I am very glad to hear the authoritative Mtatement fro)n a leading member of the Lil)eral party that there are none who are not ofUce seek- ers. At any rate there are men outside of this House who are not office seekers ; there are Liberals outside of thle House who hava a career of their own in commerce, on the farm ; the yeomen of Canada, the merchant* of Canada, the professional men of Canada, the tradesmen of Canada, who are not office seekers. And if there is no liberalism left in this Chamber to which I can appeal, and perhaps there Is not, then 1 appeal to the liberalism outside of this House. Who is that gentleman on the other side who said that there arc no Liberals on that side who were not office seekers ? I see before me the hon. member for Lisgar (Mr. Richard- son), and he is one of those who have risen in revolt In the west against the Min- ister of the Interior. He is one of the men who have revolted against the In- competence and against the most objection- able character of the administration of the affairs of the country so far as they come under the control of the Minister of the In- terior. I can well appeal to him, therefore, if there is no other vestige of the old liberal- ism in the House. But I can with confi- dence appeal to the liberalism of Canada which I know to l)e made up of as patriotic and as true men as can be found in any part of the world. Where is their party ? Mr. Speaker, you are yourself a man of imagination, and you could picture this : Suppose the shades of the late Hon. George Brown and the late Hon. Alex- ander Mackenzie were to march in here ; suppose they came down— or up^— I do not know— I assume it too readily It was down, but wherever they are, suppose they heard something of the politics of the country and learned that their party was In power. Imagine Mr. Brown and Mr. Mackenzie ap- pearing in the House. Suppose we saw Mr. Brown putting to his ghostly eyes, a pair of spectacles. He Avould recognize the Prime Minister at once ; I have no doubt he would make some verj* familiar remarks and he would ask : " Who Is that behind him, Mac- kenzie ? Is not that Tarte " ? Mackenzie, with ghostly fingers, scratching a ghostly head, would say : " I believe, George, it is." " But was not he a Tory ? And then who is that over there ? Is that not Blair " ? —referring to the hon. Minister of Railways— " Used not Blair be a Tory ?' And he would reply " Why of course he was." And then George Brown would ask : " Who is that highly intellectual man in one of the back Ministerial benches ; is that tfie son-in-law of my enemy Sir David Macpherson ? " " Why certainly it Is," and George Brown would hesitate and stammer as George Brown's manner was and he would ask In astonishment : "Is It a coalition government ? have you heard anything of that. Mac- kenzie ? " And Mackenzie would answer : " No, George, I have beard the first you mentioned la the Minister of Public Works." " Minister of Public Works, mou ; make that uiou Minister of Public Works 1 the great spending department ; why. mon, he used be the worHt element In tue Tory party." And then George Brown would ask : " Is this a Liberal Government with three Tories In It ; " and pointing his eyeglasses at the Minister of Finance, he would say : " Is that not our old friend the Premier of Nova Scotia; why, mon, he used be a secessionist," and Mackenzie would reply : " why of course he used," and Brown would sigh : '* what an extraordinary conglomeration my poor friend Laurlar has under him." But Mackenzie would say to him : " George, the worst thing Is that I am told the Minister of Public Works controls our friend who leads the Ministerial ranks," and George Brown would l>e shocked and indignanit, would laugh with scorn and shake bis gaunt sides over the pass inferior hands bad brought the party to, that party which he led so long on genuine Liberal lines. To come from the ghostly to tl\e concrete, what strikes the Lllj^rals of Canada to-day is : where is Liberalism V We have the evi- dence of the member for liisgar (Mr. Rich- ardson) on that point. The Minister of the Interior (Mr. Si f ton) went to Perth re- cently and made a speecli (of wmch I have a verbatim report here) in which he said : If our opponents were to come In they would not change the tariff to-day ; it is a dead issue. And in reference to that, what occurred lu the hearing of the member for Llsgar the other day at Reglna ? There was a Mr. J. G. Grant speaking there, and Mr. John Dougan interrupted him and said : " Have you seen what Mr. Sifton said at Perth thaA the tariff was a dead issue." Do you know what this gentleman replied, and he dare not reply anything else in the capital of the Territories ? This gentleman, Mr. Grant is an aspirant ; he sought to run against me at the last election, and he re- plied to Mr. Dougan : If Mr. Sifton said it— and there is no " if " about it because I have a verbatim report of the speech here —if Mr. Sifton said the tariff was a dead issue, then all I have to say is, that I do not agree with Mr. Sifton And my friend from Llsgar (Mr. Richardson) declared at that meeting that things had come to this pass— I now quote from memory but I have his words here, things had come to this pass, that he would say that any Liberal who said you should support the Liberal Gov- ernment the whole time, was what he would call a " yellow dog " Liberal. Mr. R. L. RICHARDSON (Llsgar). Mr. Speaker, I beg to state that I did not say anything of the kind. Mr. DAVIN. Oh, yon did not Bay anything of the kind. Mr. RICHARDSON. What I said was that a man who voted for the Conserva- tive party once when it was right and twice when It was wrong, was called in Winnipeg a yellow dog Tory ; and I added : That the man who voted for the Liberal party once when it was right and twice when it was wrong, should properly be called a yellow dog Liberal. Mr. DAVIN. Well, I will accept that. I have the words of the bon. gentleman here and J. think It comes to the same thing and 1 do not think my hon. friend (Mr. Richardson) was right in staling that he said nothing of the kind. I will read his words reported In his own paper. They are as follows :— I There la a good deal of nonaenae talked about : Liberal lain and Conaervatism. The Conaerva- tlve who voted once for hia party when it waa right and twice when it was wrong waa In Mani- toba called a yellow dog Conaervatlve. The Lib- eral who would vote for hla party once when It waa right and twice when It waa wrong ahoufd properly be characterized aa a yellow dog, for I what waa wrong In a Conaervatlve could inot by I any atretch be made rlRht In a Liberal. I And that remark was applauded. The hon. j gentleman (Mr. Richardson) know i very I well, because he was present, that when Mr. : Grant was praising the Lilieral partj'— the I Liberal " leaders ;" because I distinguish i between the Liberal " leaders " and the Llb- 1 oral " party," and mind you the Liberal I party in the country is distinguishing be- tween them. Tb'jre is no connection any I longer between the Liberal leaders and the I Liberal party, except the connection there is between betrayer and the betrayed. When Mr. Grant was saying that the Lib- eral leaders had fulfilled their pledges, my friend John Dougan Interrupted and called attention to what Mr. Sirton said. at Perth ; I that the tariff was a dead issue, and Mr. I Grant had to say, for he dare not say any- j thing else : then if Mr. Sifton said the tariff I was a dead Issue I do not agree with Mr. I Sifton. I The hon. member for Centre Toronto (Mr. Bertram) is here, and he declared that the tariff should not be changed for the next ten years. He is quite satisfied with the tariff, as he well might be. Yon remember that the other day in Manilla, the Americans did not know wlience they were being shot at, and It turned out that some of the Filipplnos were hidden away in the leafy branches of the trees and were popping at them. Now, the people of Canada, and especially the people of the North-west, feel very much like the Americans did. They look around and they discover that the manufacturers are shooting at them, firmly and confort- ably ensconced in the umbrageous branches of the Upas tree to which I have already referred. And men like my friend from Toronto (Mr. Bertram) V •y-rr/Try Mr. BEiNNBrrr (Bast Slmcoe). and Orenvllte (Mr. Frost) too. And Leeds of my right hon. friend's Oovernment— and that is flaying a great dal Mr. DAVIN. Leeds and OrenviUe. yea. J^'^^^^^^^P' ^'"' ^^^^ '°'***'**° *•*" Oh, I forgot the brother In mauufacturlug PO"i»S» stamps. implements of Messey-Harris. He travels : Mr. DAVIN. The postage stamps pale around with the young Napoleon and he I into insignificance compared with the blun- tells audience after audience that he is i ders of the Department of the Interior. He deilKhted with the tariff. Why should he ' was at that banquet, and of course bis great not V The Postmaster Qeneral (Mr. Mu- 1 speech was published at length in the locit) at a banquet that was given to Mr. " Globe " of November 16th. As a mem- Hardy declared that the tariff should remain ber of this House I think I have some rea- as it was, and he said in his own some- ! son, on l)ehalf of my hon. friend the Minls- what gruff way : Some people say that ' ter of the Interior, to complain of the It is a bad tariff, but I tall them there is a ! " Globe'" because it presented him with a worse tariff, and that Is an uncertain one ; | picture of himself. I do not say that my people should pay their taxes. So with a ' hon. friend is a walking Apollo ; but I will wave of his liirsute hand, he bids them be- j say that at his worst he does not look so gono ; tells the grumbling farmer who holds I like a criminal at large as that picture makes up l)efore him what was said in the " E'ar- 1 him. mers' Sun," (a paper that the rostmaster j ^r. BENNETT. That was the morning General subsidized)— the fnrmer liolds that | after the banquet up before him and the Postmaster General tarns pound and says : Begone, I am not I ^p- DAVIN. My hon. friend says that feoing to say one word to get the promises was the morning after the banquet ; but al- of the Government fulfilled ; they fulfilled Ithough my hon. friend the Minister of the my end ; they got you tjo vote for us, and ! Interior has back-slidden so far as to toler- that Is all I want. Something still more I ^^^^ t^« sound of the clanging fiddle and the exlTa«rdlnary occurred at ttat banquet. I h"«'-iou8 pipe, and to indulge in terpsicho- thluk I have it here. I am going to frame ! •■«*? gyrations, I do not think he has back- It, Sir, because it was one of the most ex- j Bidden to the extent of taldng champagne, traordinary things that have ever happened ■ ^ ^"^ °ot think he ^as «onf further than the In the history of public life in Canada, i «™^t««^*^^totaler8 will do~taklng Raman There was another gentleman at that ban- ' P^^^*^^ tl *^® '"''i^^® f '^«, ™«a*v ^f"- quet-that same young Napoleon who is ! ^«7„^*^« fP^^^'i = ^f' «P«fJjL°8 f ?^^ not now In his place, who seldom Is in his i J*^"^' *^'» '» ^^'^^ ^^« Minister of the In- place. He made a speech there, and of j "" " course It was heralded as a great speech. We havo, therefore, succeeded In bringing Every speech the young Napoleon makes, ! atout a revision of the tarlfr, which has afforded Mr. Speaker, is a great speech. We have in | """«='' needed relief Winnipeg, a paper which heads In big let- j To whom ? To the North-west farmer, over ters, every speech made by this young Na- i whom my right hon. friend bent with sym- poleon : " Great speech by the Minister of pathy, and mingled tears with tears ? To Interior.** ' the shopkeeper and the tradesman ? To the i artisan and the housewife ? Let me read Mr. BENNETT. What paper is t" at 7 | to you the words, and I call the attention I of my hon. friend from Lisgar (Mr. Richard- Mr. DAVIN. The Winnipeg "Free Press." son) to them. It Is Incredible. I will hand I the paper to any Liberal who comes over Mr BENNETT. Is that the Canadian i here. I do not suppose any Liberal would Pacific Railway paper ? 't^..T°®y *'i buy an organ for l net. the member In the Cabinet for the North- ^0,000 i Did it come from the same^sonrce \ west Territories, says. The words should that supplied the coin to buy La Patrie " j ue printed and hung up In every farmer's for the two promising youths who rejoice In cottage, In every shack, In every home on the name of Tarte ? Well, Sir, this great ! tne prairie, in every artisan's house In the young man, whose career during the short j country. Thev should be hung up in order time he has been a Minister has been charac- , that the people may see In them the charac- terized by such a series of blunders as have ter of this Gove-nment. This Is what he not distinguished a single other department I gays : m 10 We have, therefore, succeeded In bringing about a revision of the tariff, which afforded much needed relief to the manufaoturera of this country. The poor manufacturers ! Why, Sir, I thought they were the robbers great and the robbers small who were piling up millions of dollars at the expense of the people of the country. I thought they were bleeding the farmer white by reason of the tariff which i the Finance Minister did not think high enough, and so, where it was 25 per cent he put it up to 30 per cent, and where it was 30 per cent he put it up to 35 per cent. I thought that was the character of the manu- facturers. But it seems they needed relief. My right hon. friend, In this tariff matter, reminds me of a Yankee who made a bet with an obese fat man that he would swal- low him. The bet was taken, and the Yan- kee said, ' Lie down on that table." The fat man lay down, whereupon the Yankee knelt at the end of the table, and began to bite his big toe. The fat man cried out, " Hold on, you are hurting me." Of course I am," said the Yankee, " do you suppose I can swallow you whole ? " The Prime Minister and the Minister of the Interior have not even bit at the big toe of the manufacturers ; for, in- stead of the manufacturers crying out, they sing hymns In honour of the great leader of the Liberal party, and you have the hon. member for Leeds and GrenvUle (Mr. F. T. Frost), tlie implement manufacturer, going around with the Minister of the Interior and telling the people the tariff is what they want, and you have the hon. member for Centre Toronto declaring how happy he is. Now. I want to say something about this tariff and the conduct of the Government In regard to it, because if the people of Can- ada could look calmly on the terrible out- rage on public faith of which the present Government Is the emhodiment, then 1 would despair of the future of my country. I have here in my hand the " Farmers' Sun " for October 24, 1894, at which time it was subsidized by the present Postmaster Gen- eral, and In it I find a letter signed " Richard Cartwrjght," Ton will remember, that some time before that the Patron organization was formed. I do not know whether there is a Patron now remaining in the House. They are all changed. I see a gentleman that was elected partly as a Patron, but who puts himself down, however, In the " Parliamentary Com- panion " as a Liberal— my bon. friend from East Asslnibola (Mr. Douglas). Here Is a letter, dated the Ist October, which .appeared In the " Farmers' Sun " on October 24th, written by the present Minis- ter of Trade and Commerce, and In that letter he says, addressing his friends in the Patron ranks : I know, no man better, how utterly fatal any protective system muit be to liberty and to hon- est and economical government ; and It was the profound conviction of this fact, quite as much as any belief in the material Injury it was cer- tain to work to the chief interests of Canada (a* I pointed out In my Budget Speech of 1876, and have done continuously ever since), which In- duced Mr. Mackenzie and myself and our col- leagues to set our faces determinedly against th» introduction of that most pernicious system here. He goes on to add : Nevertheless, I feel that there Is great dangeg of their That Is, the Patrons making a very grave mistake at this junc- ture. The foes of liberty and good government are a very powerful body In Canada to-day. They are strongly entrenched and very highly organized indeed. Protection has many roots. It has a full treasury and a great hold on a large part of the press of this country. It holds the reins of Government, and it has a very large pro- portion of the active wealth of the Dominion on its side. You may be sure It will die hard here as well as in the United States. Now, this being so, for the opponents of such a foe to quarrel with each other on the very eve of a pitched battle against the common enemy Is, as the French statesman said, even worse than a crime — it would be an irreparable and unforgivabl« blunder. The man who wrote that la now a member of the Government, who wished to obtain the aid of the Patrons in overcoming their common enemy ; bnt to-day he has linked arms with the one robber, and the Prime Minister has linked arms on the other side with the other robber. Whether he has linked arms with the robber great, and the First Minister with the robber small, I do not know. Later on In that letter, he said : Then the Patrons desire to reform the tariff and to Improve the system of taxation. Oood again. By all means let us do so. This Is the very cardinal plank in the Liiberal platform, and has been so ever since 1878, as the records of Par- liament testify most abundantly. The Patrona asked that the Interests of the farmers be fairly considered. Was it not solely and simply be- cause the Mackenzie Governraeut would not agree to deliver over the farmers, bound hand and toot, to the tender mercies of the ring of would-be protective manufacturers that Mr. Mackenzie was defeated in 1878 ? And tho man who wrote that Is now a mem- ber of the Government that keeps the farm- ers bound hand and foot to the tender mer- cies of that ring. He continued : Let me ask, too, by whose votes was Mr. Mackenzie defeated then ? I do not say it as a reproach, but It Is a matter of history, that Mr. Maokeuzie was defeated by the votes of the Liberal farmers, who were cajoled by the false promises of home markets, high prlce"^ and gen- eral pro.spority held out by the reckless and ignorant charlatans who foisted this precious ^ protective system on Canada In 1878. But, Mr. Speaker, we have substantially the same tariff to-day ; and If those gentlemen who in 1878 Inaugurated the National Pol- icy, were Ignorant charlatans, the hon. Min- ister of Trade and Commerce (Sir Richard Oartwrlght) cannot be characterized other- 11 wise tban as a conscious criminal. Further on In that letter be continues : What are the other planks of the Patron platform affecting Dominion politics 7 If there be a Patron here, let him hear. If there Is a Liberal here, let bu hear. If there Is a man who believes in common hon- esty in public life, let blm bear these words written by the Minister of Trade and Com- merce (Sir Richard Cartwrlght) on that occa- sion to the Patrons : What are the other planlis of the Patron platform affecting Dominion politics ? They are these : 1. Economy of administration. 2. Purity and independence of Parliament. 3. Tariff for revenue only. 4. Reciprocal trade. 5. Protection from labour monopolies. 6. No railway bonuses. 8. No gerrymandering Mark this, Mr. Speaker : No gerrymandering. 9. Lands for settlers. If the hon. Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sif- ton) were here, I would ask blm to listen to that. Now, there Is no single one of all these objects which the Liberal party have not been fighting for, moving resolutions for, and doing their very best to obtain any time during the last twenty years. Look at the records of Parlia- ment Look especially at the several motions on the Budget. Look at their platform, and at the very last resolution moved by myself in Parlia- ment, and you will see that as regards Dominion politics there is evidently no ground of bitter- ness between the Patrons and the Libera! party. Is not that holding out to the Patrons the promise : Put^ us into power, and we will carry out yo.ir planks and make them thf? laws of Canada ? Sir CHARLES HIBBERT TUPPER (Plc- tou). But there must be an impled condition. Mr. DAVIN. I do not think there Is im- plied condition here. No, the hon. gentle- man holds it out categorically. If there be a condition It is : Put us Into power, and we will carry out your planks. What Is the Liberal party to do with such a leader ? What are the Patrons to think of such a Government ? Was there ever such a de- ception practised as has been, practised on the Patrons by this Government ? Further on, he adds : Tariff for revenue only and taxes on luxuries and not on the necessaries, reciprocity and re- servation of the lands for the actual settlers are things the Liberals, collectively and individually, have always advocated, nor is there any political single argument which has ever been advanced in favour of all these things, either by the Pa- trons or anybody else, which has not been pre- viously and most generously said many times over by the Liberal members of Parliament and out of it. The hon. gentleman then emphasized his ofTer of association wth the Patrons : You see, as I have said, that the objects of both organizations are Absolutely identical. Tha Liberal party, for fifteen years and more, have beed fighting at heavy odds for the very obileots the Patronf profened to desire. The Liberal party lost office vatber than forsake these prin- ciples. And they are kee'>lng office now, rather than carry them out The Liberal party might have long since re- gained office if they would have betrayed them, and yet we find certain Patrons continually de- claring that both parties are alike, and advising their friends to make no distinction between a Liberal and a protectionist candidate. Again, he adds : We will do well to remember t'aat, after all, Ontario Is not the whole of this Dominion, and tbat under certain conditions Then he goes on to suggeoc the fear to the Patrons, that if they do not take care, there may be a coalition between the Liberals and the Conservatives, and where, then, would be the Patrons : Now, you will bear In mind that I am very far from stating such a condition would be Justifiable or desirable. My p-sint is, and it cannot be brought too clearly before the minds of all those Patrons who desire to promote the real welfare of their country, and who, I make no doubt, con- stitute 'the vast majority of the order, that such a move would be always on the cards In the event of such proceedings on the part of the Patrons as I have indicated. Later on, he said : I. for ray part, would be sorry to see the Issue dwindle down to a mere question oC revenue tariff. This la a good thing in its way, but very much more than thl3 is needed now, and very much more than this can be got, if only our chances are not recklessly thrown away. We need, among other things, a radical readjustment, not cnly of our tariff, but of our whole system of taxation. Mark that, Mr. Speaker, because I shall have to refer to it later on. Oreat evil has been done, but out of evil Cood may come, and the colossal villainy of the pro- tective system may be made to pave the way for so thorough a reform that It may prove pos- hlble for the first time in the history of Canada so to distribute the pressure of taxation that every man shall be compelled to contribute to the Dublic needr according to his means and not ac- cording to pleasure. The man who wrote this is in a Govern- ment that maintains a protective tariff and that has put a cent a pound on sugar. I have no Intention, and, indeed, no desire, to see your organization put at the disposal of even the Liberal party. Let them remain distinct but friendly. This Is pre-eminently a case for mutual concession. Both Patrons and Liberals profess to have the same ends in view. Let them meet and adjust their difficulties — differences of prin- ciples there are none. No differences of principle, Mr. Speaker. Why with that letter on record, the Minister of Trade and Commerce in a Government that supports what he calls the villainy of a pro- tective system, we have, as I say, one of the most Immoral spectacles ever wltnesir-cd in in I H 12 any country. I am not done with this ques- tion. It 1b one that comes home closely to the people of the North-west Territories. We up there have been shamefully deceived, shame- fully betrayed. In fact, If you will turn to copies of that very paper from which I have been reading, issued after the Minister of Finance had declared his policy, you will Ing the 13,000,000 less which they said they would expend, and the ?1,400,000 more which they did expend, we find them to be $4,400,000 worse than they promised ; in the next year, $4,800,000 worse, and in the present year, $4,900,000 worse. Then, what about the debt? They declared that the debt was too high, and that they find that that paper, which had been attack- wouH reduce it. But, as a matter of fact, • Ing the Conservative party and Conservative during the first year they sent up the debt policy, declared that the farmers of Canada about three and a half millions more than had been betrayed by the Liberal Govern ment. I wish to deal still further with this question, and, as it were, to drive home the nail. If you will turn to the Liberal cam- paign sheet Issued during the election of 1886, you will find that more Is said about it was under the old Government ; and the next year, about four millions, making in the two years an addition to the debt of about seven and a half millions. This year, they are away out of sight. And yet, n the Public Accounts Issued by the Finance the tariff even than was said at the great Minister, we read that the receipts on ac- meeting of Liberals that took place in 1893. count of Consolidated Fund for the year You have there in detail a comparison were $40,555,238, and the expenditure $38,- whlch shows the enormous fortunes that j 832,526, showing a surplus of $1,722,712. were being made out of the fanner by the Now, Is it not a very extraordinary thing, protected manufacturers. Therefore, not | that when the Minister of Finance shows -only in the speeches of my right hon. friend \ that he has a surplus of about a million and the Prime Minister, not only in the speeches . three-quarters, be has a man In London of his colleagues, not only at that convention trying to borrow two millionfli and a half ? •of 1893, but in the campaign sheet it was Is this not on a par with their candour with stlH more emphasized, that If these gentle- ! regard to the tariff ? What is the explana- men got into power, we should have such a tlon ? The people outside, when they read radical revision of the tariff, that every ves tlge of protection would disappear. I need hardly ■ say how completely we have been be- trayed. I have in my hand the tariff, and, as I turn over iMige after page, as I am ^oing now, I find that every page teems with the statements of the Finance Minister, as published in the newspapers, are not aware of the way in which the hon. Minister keeps his accounts. He ke^^ps his accounts In this way : He has a consolidated revenue col- umn, in that column he brings out a sur- as follows :— Interoolanlal Railway, Prince B3d- I ward Island Railway, Lachlne Canal, Ottawa , , ^ - . Sault Ste. Marie gentle- ■ Canal. Trent Canal, $3,477,906; public workg. $376,852 ; Dominion Lands, $127,504 ; MllItU, $173,740 ; making a total of $4,156,004. rates of duty of 30 and 35 per cent, page plus. He then has a capital account column; after page, 30 and 35 per cent— the whole so tlmt by means of transferring a sufficient tariff pockmarked with 30 and 35 per cent, number of millions Into the capital account This Is the Liberal free-trade revenue tariff ! j column he can run heavily in debt, be can Now, Sir, clearly, they have not fulfilled j increase our obligations,, he can pile up in- their pledges with regard to the tariff. Have ' terest. he can go to England and borrow they fulfilled their pledges with regard to j $2,500,0(X> of money, and yet go to the people expenditure ? They said that the expendl- of the country and say : We have a surplus ture was excessive. The hon. member for | of $1,750,000. We read on ; Narth Norfolk (Mr. Charlton), a distinguish- ^ „» v ».. . . , ed member of the commission which has >*P.«:''<"tu»"e chargeable to capital account was failed, said eight years ago that the coun- try could be run for $5,000,000 less than j works. St. Lawrence River Ir was being run for. Another gentle man. the present Minister of Justice, declared that the country could be run for, - &^iJ^wSno^L'ifV„.^*'tnH';'^°'* ^^^\^^' ^ "^^ °«t ^^^^ tl>« calculation my- iVr^ionto ?n 1^1 h/««i? VhJf .^'^ "Pf f* «5''' ^«*^«"«e " I t"'-'! to a, page further on !.VkI ^K?' 1 1^3 'e said, that they might of these public accounts, which are given of«4 0^L^I«?*i^?.T''*/^,'^'f'^'^^i«"* "°<*«^ tbe imprimatur of my hon cJufdrSfor\'<^(5^?r«"^h *^f ""-lend the Minister of Finance. 1 flnu on onmp inJnnw/r^'^'T.'T- P^^ hn/e pages 15a and 15o : "Expenditure for 1898 ThT flrat .r^^w^wi'^J"'* ^''' happened ? j ..hargeable to Consolidated Fund, $38,832.- ii!m(^^T^L^"!K*"P^r®^*^®y*P®°* •"25: expenditure chargeable to capital $4- hirt^n^f r.? /*"l° ^^^ °'^ Government 143.503." Then, here comes an Item that ^1 ®^K * *?u"' '*"* ^^h *"*' considerably ■ will astonish the country after the pledges m»nt-^tl. ^1/''*'?^® °/ool^? old Govern- [ which we know were made, after the resolu- Sf L ^^'" ^"""^ "■"'" }P^^ *"* ^^- '^''^- i tJons that were passed, after the promises SaoiSno^ ««^th?'»r„^°*!, «^P«°<^'t.ure of | that were held forth, under the head of »3U,U4tM)00 as the standard of comparison, railway subsidies we find $1,414,934. Then 7^A^nn^ t '^ u^"* ^^"^L ^^^^ *P^°t ^^^ have the total disbursements of this Gov- Im AftfWr.^'Sr''^ Uj'^i^^ ^^^^ "^^^ *^-^*J^- : ernment. which claims to have a surplus of S^'?^r. « ^?^ /*!'" Ju "'"U ''''" *^"'^'- *l-7r>0.000 : $45,334,281 ; total receipts. $40,- «» more. So that in the first year tak- 556,510. Then, under the heading of the IS difference between receipts and expenditure, that Is to say the real deficit, we find 14,777.771. That Is our position ; so that in regard to the way the country Is run, It Is precisely the same thing as In regard to the tariff. But let me call your attention to that surplus. What Is It, according to the best political economists and the best finance nJinlsters, such men as Gladstone— what Is it but an evidence of Incompetence ? I have seen it stated as though it were a feather in the cap of this Government, that It has a surplus of $1,750,000. Now, Sir, I have here what I read at one of my meet'ngs before the people, who were great- ly Impressed with the statement that there was a surplus of $1,750,000 ; I have here a statement made as to the real character of such surpluses— that it Is taking money out of the pockets of the people that should not be taken out, that It is bad financiering, it is, In fact, bad statesmanship, even if It was a trae surplus, which I have shown by these Public Accounts that It is not. Hear what this great authority says, that I am now going to read to you : Why, Sir, you heard tlie hon. gentleman driven to the expedient of giving it as an evidence ot prosperity, that during the last fifteen years wihtch the country has been ur-der a protective regime, the finances of the country balanced year after year by surpluses which now aggregate to the enormous sum of $20,000,000. This fact, which I do not hesitate to say to the hon. gentle- man, Is nothing short of a disgrace and a shame for the Administration, was treated by him as ^ boast. I assert that such a condition of things is a shame and a disgrace to any Government. In England the aim and the purpose of the Chan* cellor of the Exchequer is so to calculate the expense and the expenditure as to make them balance evenly, and the reputation of the Chan- cellor of the Exchequer would be lost for ever if, year after year, his calculations were found to be wrong. If, instead of having Just the rev- erue which Is wanted to meet the expendlturs. It was found that there was such a discrepancy In his calculations as exists In Canada, the repu- tation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer would, I repeat, bd lost for ever, unless he were able to show that the discrepancy rose from a sudJen disturbance In the condition of business. What is the truth about these surpluses ? Twenty millions of dollars, says the Minister of Finance. The truth is, that these surpluses represent $20,- 000,000 of unjust taxation, which have been wrung by the Government from the consumers of the country, $20,000,000 which would hav» been left In the pockets of the people for the purpose of their own business, for Instance, to be applied to the redemption of the mortgages with which this country has been plastered dur- ing that term of years. Now, Sir, who Is the author of that state- ment as to the character of a surplus ? 1 would call the attention of the Treasury benches as to the author of it. If you turn to the " Hansard " of April 12th, 1894, you win find that the word L-a-u-r-1-e-r la al the head of that speech In which this state- ment occurs. So that this boasted surplus Is characterized by the present Prime Minis- ter as an outrage. Let me use his own» words In regard to what his Finance Minis- ter boasted of, and I believe that be him- self has boasted of It. Let me read : What it; the truth about this surplus of $1,750,- 000 ? Is it not $1,750^000 of unjust taxation which has been wrung by the free trade revenue tariff of the Government from the consumers of the country ? $1,750,000 which should have been left in the pockets of the people for the purpoa« of their own business 7 There It Is. I have the "Hansard" here in my hand. It is almost Incredible, but my right hon. friend and his Minister of Finance can Inspect it. It is fot their be* hoof that I read It, as well as tor the behoof of the whole House and the country. Now, Mr. Speaker, I have to tarn my at- tention to the subject of the Department of the Interior. That department as run by the present Minister of the Interior, has cer- tainly been a much bungled department Mr. A. CAMPBELL (Kent). Take a little breath. Mr. DAVIN. My hon. friend from Kent (Mr. Campbell), I am told, is In spirit iml- ' tatlng the Minister of the Interior. The- Minister of the Interior has been learning dancing ; I am told that my hon. friend from Kent is learning French ; and if he will confine his attention to what he calls his ' entourage,' I think the business of the House will go on much better. I wish the Minister of the Interior was here, be- cause I am going to expose some of his blun- ders, and one of them especially, which was destined to embarrass my right hon. friend at the beginning of his diplomatic life. Last year, in the presence of the Minister of the Interior, I exposed to the House the fact that this great pamphlet, the oflScial hand- book of the Dominion of Canada— I read It here and I am not going to do it again— con- tained pages of libel on Western Assinibola, declaring that the finest wheat fields in the world, that portion of Canada that Mr. Ma- coun said was the kidney of the North-west could not grow wheat. If anybody doubts It, I will read the passages again, but as I read them last year and as the blunder Is familiar to the people of the west, it Is hardly necessary for me to do so. But I think it has been surpassed by a blunder the most signal that probably has ever been pei-pctrated by any department. As regards that great International commission, of which my right hon. friend the Prime Min- ister Is a member and of which my hon. friend the member for Norfolk was, accord- ing to the United States papers, a more distinguished member, of which the Min- ister of Trade and Commerce and the Minis- ter of Marine and Fisheries are members, things leaked out as to what took place. Now, 1 am not going to enter Into a discussion of j the incidents connected with it, nor am I I going to dwell upon the mistakes that the 14 OoTernment has made, because I have things touching my constituents more closely to deal with ; but what I am now about to Bpeak of touches very closely the honour ol Oanadii, and It excites my sympathy for the Prime Minister, who, in consequence of the blundering action of the Minister of the Intertor, found himself, dui'ing that oonfer- ence in Washington, in a very unpleasant position. It has Icalced out that one of th(^ great bones of contention, in fact it was the large bone of contention, between *.he commissioners for the United States and the commissioners Tor Her Majesty, was the boundary btitween the American and Cana- dian Yukon. It will be remembered that the Minister of the Interior spoke, I think at Vancouver, but I have his speech here. He was coming back from a visit to the Yukon, or rather from a point on the route to Dawson. He declared that he had consulted with Mr. King, who had been at the head of the Boundary Commission, and that he was thoroughly acquainted with the boundary, question. I am told that the Prime Minister was presenting the case of Canada and pointing out the boundary that should belong to this country— I am not at liberty to mention the name of the American commis- sioner wh<» replied to him, but I am told that he said to him : " Sir Wilfrid, is your Minis- ter of the Interior not well posted on the question of the boundary between Canada and the United States In the Yukon district?" I believe the amtwer came, as it could not fall to come from a loyal leader. " Yes. cer- tainly, I believe that he has studied it under the direction of Mr. King, who has been at the head of the Boundary Commission on this question." "Yes," replied the Ameri- can commissioner ; " well, now, you do not say so ; here Is a map issued by a depart- ment of your own Government showing the boundary between Canada and the United States, and the boundary shown on this map is the American boundary we contend for and not the boundaiy for which you are contending." Mr. GEO. TAYLOR (South Leeds). What map is that ? Mr. DAVIN. It Is a descriptive atlas of western Canada, showing the maps of the provinces of Manitoba and British Colum- bia, the districts of Assinibola, Alberta and Saskatchewan, a map of the world and of the Dominion of Canada, issued by autho- rity of the Hon. Cifford Slfton, Minister of the Interior, Ottawa, Canada. There it is, and when you look at the Yukon you see that the boundary is marked as contended for by the Americans, and as against our contention. Mr. TAYLOR. Where was that printed ? Mr. J. G. H. BERGERON (Beauharnols). It was printed in Chicago. Mr. DAVIN. It is suggested that this map was printed in Chicago. I will send I It over to the Prime Minister that he may i look over the boundary. I have no doubt I he will recognize it as the map that one of ; the American commissioners presented for I bis consideration. i The PRIME MINISTER (Sir Wilfrid Lau- ; rier). I never saw It before to-day. Mr. DAVIN. I see that the hon. Minister I of Public Works (Mr. Tarte) is behind him, and is giving my right lion, friend the Prime Mlrlster a »»olater. I would say hen; that he must not always reply on the soundness of th'j advice coming to him from that quar- ter. No man ever exisied in public life in auy cou.itry so distrusted as the present Minister of Public Works. The whole of the honest Liberalism of the proviuce of Quebec is in revolt against him ; all the un- bought Liberalism of western Canada is in revolt against him, but by some extraordi- nary power he keeps his place and exerts his influence over the Prime Minister. Clubs in Montreal pass resolutions against him, but what happens ? My right hon. friend writes letters to silence the voice of indig- nant Liberalism, and he himself trios to make the peace of the Minister of Public Works with the outraged conscience of the more respectable members of the Liberal party in French Canada. This is really one of the most peculiar of positions, that of the Prime Minister of Canada In regard to the Minister of Public Works, and it excites grave feelings in the minds of the Liberals and even of Conservatives. Mr. Speaker, you will remember the story of Mezentius, who used to tie dead bodies to living bodies, not to quicken the dead but to destroy the living. And some Liberals ask the question : la this close, relationship that exists between the Minister of Public Works and the Prime Minister going to destroy the Government ? Conservatives, not sharing this fear yet hav- ing correlative feelings of surprise and alarm, ask : Is It going to launch the ship of state on a rolling sea of corruption with- out bar or shore ? What is to be the end of it ? Such are the questions people ask when they see this extraordinary Influence exer- cised over the Prime Minister by the Minis- ter of Public Works. As some of you know, McEwen took respectable and able men, pro- fessors of colleges, barristers, merchants, find put them under the control of his will in such a way that while apparently in their .senses they could not do other than as he bade them. Some such hypnotic influence as that seems to be possessed by the Minis- ter of Public Works over my right hon. friend the leader of the Government. It is a bad thin?? for the Liberal Government, yet I would I could wake the right hon. gentle- man (Sir Wilfrid Laurler) from his trance ; wake him completely from the spell that the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Tarte) throws over h»m. Whatever effect it might have on my own party, I would like to wake him and break the baneful chain, because 16 . it Is a painful thing to contemplate. It ro- calla a situation that was conge^ilal and captivating to the imagination of the Middle Ages. It is a situation tliat our own Mar- lowe played with ; a situation tliat has been treated with consummate power and undyl'ig art by Goethe the great German poet. You remember, Mr. Speaker— and pro- bably you will have seen It represented on the stage— you will have seen a beautiful and aspiring and instructed nature ; a man with acadimic relations and learned, brought under the spell of a dark and evil spirit, completely sold as it were to that dark and evil spirit, forced to do its bidding, but re- warded by the gratification of every wordly desire. The kingdoms of the world I will give thee. I will give tliee rule, only make yourself subject to me. And the right hon. gentleman has not the power to say " Get thee behind me " ; but remains under the spell helpless, supine, and there he sits the Faust of Canadian politics, and behind him the Mephistophelea. Here, Mr. Speaker, is a very curious thing. Here we havo an elaborate descriptive atlas of Canada, 220,000 copies of which have been Issued by my hon. friend the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton), and In that atlas he places the boiindary between Canada and the United States according to the contention of the United States. I have to ac- cept the statement of my right hon. friend (Sir Wilfrid liaurier), but what an extraor- dinary thing that the Prime Minister should never have seen an atlas like this that was Issued by the Minister of the Interior aa an official document. What an admission ! Last year when I pointed out to the Minister of the Interior certain mistakes In a book of his he said he would withdraw It. I do not know whether he has surpressed it or not, but if it is still being circulated, the kidney of the North-weat as a grain-growing country is maligned. It is stated in that offloial docu- ment that no wheat could grow on lands, where I will take you to men who have film- ed 320 acres for 15 years and have each $10,- 000 made out of growing wheat to their cred- its In the bank. The title of this book Is " An Official Hand-book of the Dominion of Can- ada." When my hon. friend the ex-Mlnister of Finance (Mr. Foster) was in the west and attended some meetings to which I invited him, I exhibited this hand-book, and the hon. gentleman (Mr. Foster) knows very well what effect the false statements it contains had upon the people there. Now we have a map Issued from the Department of the In- terior with such an egregious blunder as I have described. Perhaps It is hardly a queatfon that should be aaked, but I would like to know from my right hon. friend if he has never seen this map, whether that map was not quoted to him at Washington. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). There la a note explaining the whole thing an the cover. Mr. DAVIN. I am not addreaslng the Min- ister of Public Works. I am dealing with the Prime Minister. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). There ia a note explaining the whole thing, and my hon. friend (Mr. Davln) knows It too. Mr. DAVIN. I am speaking to the Prime Minister, and what 1 am asking him Is : Was not that map quoted Id Washington as 11 proof that the contention of the American coimnissionera wa» correct ? The PRIME MINISTER (Sir Wilfrid Laurler). Mr. Speaker, I presume that the hon. gentleman (Mr. Davin) does not expect me to give any seci-ets of the commission. Mr. DAVIN. Oh, no. The PRIME MINISTER. I may, however, tell him tbute an authority like my hon. friend. Mr. DOMYILLE. No, the women are all free. Mr. DAVIN. Well, I know that my hon. friend Is a great authority on these subjects; but my information Is, Uiat a tax was im- poeed upon them, from which in one day $16,000 was raised. Mr. DOMYILLB. If my tK>n. friend wonM allow me to say one word. Would be take my word for It that the women are not LuEed out there ? Mr. DAVIN. I will take hie word for any- thing he would say on that subject, because I know that It Is probably the only Eubject on which he Is thoroughly well informed. Now, Mr. Speaker, I say It is a serious thing that we have not the hon. Minister of the Interior here, when such queetions are being debated. The PRIME MINISTER (Sir WUfrld Lau- rier). Permit me. I am sorry the Minister of the Interior is not in bis seat to-day. If he is not, it is because he Is kept in his room by rather serious illness. Mr. DAVIN. I did not know that, and I am sorry to hear it I am very glad lie is not neglecting his duties. However, I have here a speech of the hon. and gallant mem- ber for King's (Mr. Domville), in whlcli he declares, that there has been in the Klondike the grossest possible mismanagement Mr. DOMVILLE. No, excuse me. I nevw made any such statement I ask my hon. friend to read where I made any each state- ment Mr. DAVIN. I did not intend to trouble the House with my hon. friend's eloquence ; but now I shall have to do It Mr. DOMVILLB. WeU, do It Mr. DAVIN. I wiU do anything to oblige my hon. friend. Is that my hon. friend from Saskatchewan (Mr. Davis) who la mak- ing an Intermiptlon ? Let us bare a good one, as he said when he went into a Winni- peg cigar store the other day, and the store- keeper asked him whether he would like a foreign or a domestic cigar. "I do not know," he said, "but glre us a good one." Qive us a good Interruption, If you give us ontf at all. Now, I have here what my hoa friend from King's said, because I treasore what he says. There is a virility about all my hou. friend's utterances that I admire. Mr. DOMVILLE. From what— from wo Mr. DOMVILI^B. May I ask my hon. men ? friend, what paper he Is^inotlng from ? Mr. DAVIN. Yes. Mr. DOMVILLB. Ob, no ; you are wrong. Mr. DAVIN. Look at the position of things, Mr. Speaker, in this House. Here we are, debating questions relating to the North- west Territories, questions relating to the boundary between Canada and the United States, questions affecting the moral man- agement of the Yukc and the authority we have to fall back ^a, In order to ob- tain Infbnnatlon, Is my bon. and galLint friend. I luive a high oipnion of my hon. and gallant friend, but he Is not a Minister— at least be is not a MinM»r yet and he can- not speak with the authority of the Minister. Mr. DAVIN. First I must have my bon. friend deny It Mr. DOMVILLB. I cannot deny It until I know what you are reading from. Mr. DAVIN. This is what he says about tbe 10 per cent royalty : It is ridiculous ; vimply ridiculous. As a rasult of it men are hiding away their gold and getting it out of the country, and I do not blame (bem. I would do it myself. If the royalty was 2 per cent, mord would be realized from it than froia 10 per cent. The present system simply put a premium on rascality. It originated from rvports of officials here, made in Ottawa, that the mlnss were owned t>y TankMS, and that they wars richer than they w. '%. / 17 / The hon. gentleman doe* not deny that ? Mr.DOMVILLB. I cannot tell what mj hon. friend is reading from. He maj' havt made It up. I do not say he did ; bat when he quotes a statement from me, I want bim to giye the ai ^orlty he got It from. Mr. DAVIN. I am quoting from a report of the hoa. gentleman's speech, which is quoted In the Winnipeg " Telegram " of August 12, 1888. Mr. DOMVILLE. That Is all right. I do not admit that I made that sti^temont. Mr. DAVIN. My hon. friend can keep his soul in peace, because it will console him to know that It does not matter the least to me or to the people of Canada whether be ever said It or not Mr. DOMVliiLB. Why do you talk about It? Mr. DAVIN. But I wiU say this, that the Information I have is, that the 10 per cent royalty Is a mistake, and that more money would be obtained from a more moderate royalty. In a 8p«ech which I already quoted from the Minister of the Interior, he naid, when asked about the banks, that the banks would go up there. He was asked, whether he would provide that the managi^ment of the banks im the Yukon would be such ai would be Just to the miners. He distln.nly said in that speech— I am quoting from mem- ory, but I have his speech here— that he would take care that Justice was done. What Is the fact at the present time ? Mr. Ogllvie went up there, and the first thing he did, when he went there, was to get his little council to pass an ordinance forbidding paymer ts to officials in gold dust. The prin- cipal currency of a mining camp like Daw- .w is gold dust ; but if a miner goes into tne gold commissioner's office, or if he has to pay for land that he buys from the Gov- ernment, the Government will not take pay- ment in gold dust He has to go to the bank. and the bank will not give him anything like an equivalent of the value he used to get. The bank will not give him the actual pur- chasing power of the gold dust The conse- quence Is, that the banks there are malting a huge profit and are fleecing and plimder- Ing the miners. Mr. TAYLOR. Senator Oox's bank. Mr. DAVIN. One of them is Senator Cox's bank, I believe. There Is another thing to which I wish to draw attention. The charter- ed banks are doing what my hon. friend the Postmaster General (Mr. Mulock), whom I now see present, when he used to sit on this side, was wont to denounce. He was then very much taken up with the question of usurious rates of interest and I rather think he made an effort In this House to control the rate of Interest debtors could be forced to pay. Well, what are the facta to-day in Dawson 7 The clnrtered banks N F D— 2 • there are charging the usudotis interest of t^po per ceat per moL.):h. I may be told that this is no affair of the Government but a Iiurely commercial matter. That, however, Is not the doctrine which was preached here l>efore by some of the present leaders of the Liberal party. They used to hold out to the people that if they ever got into power they would not allow usury to prevail in any part of Canada, and certainly would not allow It to run rampant and be practised by charter- ed banks. That surely is a most ferious matter. I would like to ask the hon. Minister of PuWlc Works (Mr. Tarte) whether there Is a y : Emery Lafontaine in his employ at present. Anyway there was a Mr. Lafon- taine in the employ of the Public Works Department who went up to Dawson la^t year. If an inquiry be held, and there muet be an inquiry Into the whole of the Dawson ninnagement, it can be proved, I am in- formed, that his conduct as well as that of Mr. OgilVie has been anything but becoming offlolala in any department. Mr. Ogllvie is not heavy enough for the position of com- missioner. To use a French phrase, he has not the " exterieur " for his position ; he has not the experience or the weight for his po- sition. He is not fit for it and has made mistakes, some grave and some trifiing, but even the trifling ones show the man's char- acter. For instance, during the fire at Daw- son, they got an experienced man to work the fire engine. Mr. Ogllvie, however, came along, and without consulting the mounted police who were around, without consulting finybody, said to this man, who was work- ing away at the engine : Get out, you are I ot in imiform. I would not like to repeat what this man replied, because I would be guilty of Irreverence, but he turned round nnd said to Mr. Ogllvie something to this effect : Yo«i are not the creator of the world. I may not be the creator of the world, re- torted our commissioner, but I am Mr. Ogllvie, the commissioner of the Yukon, and you must get out of this. He then called a policeman to take in charge this man, who was actually work- ing away at the engine, and had him sent to Jail. The people around hooted and jeer- ed, and there was danger of such a scene as that described by Lord Macaulay, when one of the worst of the Claudlan gens had behaved so Improperly that the Romanji gathered up their gowns and took up the benches and created great riot. The result was that this high and mighty commissioner had to take back water and let the man re- turn to his work. That may be a trifle, but It shows the character of the man. I am told that Mr. Ogllvie is in with Mr. Fawcett I do not wish to say anything more about that, because it is only rumour, but I am told further that he is a cousin of the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton). That I do not think is quite proper, and if there be an in- quiry, as there should, there ought to be 18 one of the broadest character and not merel; an ofllcial one. Mr. Lafontalne went up there, and if we have an Inquiry, I have the uiimes of witnesses who will go Icto the box — and these names I will give to whoever may have the authority to call wltneMM*— and prove that he used to go Into the gold comnitBslonor'a office and look over the book of abandoned claims and use for his own pcrsoDtil advantage the Information he got there. This book, It seems, shows all the claimR had to be abandoned by poor miners who were not a/ble to fulfil the conditions although many of these abandoned claims are good ones. The public outside were were not made aware of the fact that these claims were abandoned, the whole thing was kept in the dark ; they did not know that these claims were open to be restiikod, and Mr. I.>afontalne, after looking over this book, would go out and send one of Ms agents or go himself to some miner and arrange for taking them up. People would say : Lafontalne is In wittt the Gov- ernment, he belongs to one of the depart- ments, he knows all about this, he knows where there is a good mine, let some one stake It out, and give Mr. Lafontalne one- half, and one-quarter to Lafontalne's Imp or acolyte or messenger or whatever you like to call him, and the man who stakes the claim may keep the other quarter. Accord- ing to the information I have, that was done on a large scale by this officer of the Depart- ment of Public Works. Let me refer now to the case of Mac- Gregor and Wade. They, the two principal criminals, fled from the Yukon the moment Mr. Ogilvie went up, and what was the story told ? Mr. MacGregor who was sent up as an Inspector of mines, and, therefore, was guilty of misconduct and of a breach of the Order in Council, as I am informed, went directly contrary to the existing law, in stak- ing out claims, made a raid on the Monte Ghrlsto Island, where he and his fri«nds staked claims, and the result is that in con- sequence of his official knowledge be has made some 5165,000 or $75,000. But it appears that the whole conduct of the departmeat up there Is on a par with this. The Minister of the Interior (Mr. Slfton) has organized the department as no department was ever organized, namely, on a personal basis. His official staff is made np of heelers, of his own friends, of rela- tives of his own, and I may tell the right hon. Prime Minister, who is interested in knowing It, that the Yukon Is being exploit- ed In a manner to throw grave suspicion on the Department of the Interior. And I say that if there is anything like an adequate Inquiry, it will be shown that lands out there are being kept back from being staked in the interests of somebody or another— I sup- pose In the interest of men like Drolet, who irot such dredging ad s^antages as we showed last year be obtained, and then went over to England and sold them for vast sums- went over paupers, he and others, and returned millionaires or half millionaires. Is this a sample of the very pure adminis- tration that tlie Minister of Trade and Com- 1 >(;rcd promised those patrons in the letter I hav»! read and which he published in what was then the subsidized organ of the Post- in/ister General (Mr. Mulock) who is now looking at me ? I wish he had been here when I read that letter. It would have done hiH heart good to hear the vigorous protests made by the hon. Minister of Trade and Commerce (Sir Uichard Cartwright), as to the sincerity with which he grasped to his bosom the Patrons and their platform. He will see them in " Hansard," and I beg him to read, mark and inwardly digest the senti- ments. Not even after looking Into his own heart and conscienc'e and his pledges to the TIoMse, will he be able to plumb the depth of thl(lnes8 is admlral)le, he does not shrink from anything. He was Hpcaking at Valleyfield and he said . We have expervled much this year, but wait till you see us next year. These genth men drunk with the prosperity which they did not create, when they are confronted with their vast expenditure and their mn the Qovernment of the Do- minion." Why, Sir, you can read that r«ao> ' lutlon to-day, and It has tntenser slg- nlflcance. On Thursday, May 28th, 1886, Mr. Dalton McCarthy was enthuslaatlcally received at Brandon. Mr. Sifton spoke on that occasion. The Minister of the In- terior, at that time Mr. Sifton, spoke at the meeting there, and this is what be said : Wo have In Mr. Dalton McCarthy a man -who supports our principles. ' Along with others, I have been blamed with I having changed my principles ; but where does a better Liberal policy exist than In " tariff for revenue only." That is quoted because it la one of the planka in the address of Mr. McCarthy. This la what is said about the speech of my hon. friend the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sif- ton) on that uccaslon : He closed wUh an earnest appeal to the elec- tors that every one who felt his duty to the country as a country of his own, would work hard until the 23rd of June that Dalton Mc- Carthy may be our representative. You remember. Sir, that Mr. McCarthy elect- ed to sit for his old constituency, and a convention assembled at Sourls on October 27th, 1806, for the purpose of choosing a candidal^ to represent Brandon in the room of Dalton McCarthy. This is what Mr. Sifton of that day said : When Mr. McCarthy was elected last June, the people here did the best day's work ever done In on© day In Manitoba, for they furnls^ -J an argu- ment that could not be subverted, biid secured a man of the umost prominence to advocate To advocate what, Mr. Speakei* : to advocate their views on the tariff. And be says elsewhere : We men of Manitoba have certain strong views Strong views upon what ? upon the tariff question, and It Is doubly necessary that we should be represented. In the address th,it Mr. Sifton Issued to the electors of Brandon and dated November 18th, this Is what he says : It win be my especial duty to lend my assist- ance In bringing about such reform in the tariff and such alterations in the methods of admin- istering North-western affairs as will enhance the prosperity of the farming community, and thus lay the best possible foundation for a suc- cessful immigration policy. This gentleman (Mr. Sifton), prior to bla entering the Ministry spoke in that way, but let me read what the same gentleman said at Perth the other day— and I quote his exact words now, as I quoted them from memory before : The tariff question In Canada is settled. It is, I venture to say, a dead Issue. There will be 22 ohangei, but as an laaue ba'jween tb« partlea it la dead. We have succeeded in solving the ditfl- culties, and our opponents, satisfied, and we are satisfied. You, Sir, know the way the Winnipeg " Tri- bune " commented on that. The " Tribune," a Liberal newspaper, said : We would want a new political vocabulary to understand the Minister of the Interior ; and the writer went on to express his utter astonishment that any man, a member of the Liberal Gov- ernment—at least, a sq-ctiUed Liberal Gov- ernment-would talk In that way. There are other feature* about the method of the Minister of the Interior which justifies his title to the young Napo- leon. We know that Napoleon was unscru- pulous, was tyrannical, and was Impatient of independence of thought. His sole Idea was to have one mind in the country, and to have that mind— his own— control every- thing. One of the methods of the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton) Is this. He has established here In Ottawa a central press bureau, whence letters are sent to any papers that will publish them. The consequence Is that you can take one paper after another In Manitoba and the North-west Territories, and you will find a letter from " Our cor- respondent at Ottawa." It may be the " Bally Boomerang Gazette," or it may be the " Shaag Wang Sentinel," or It may be the Red Deer " Cultivator," or It may be the " Townships Incisor " ; but whatever the title. If It be a Libera! paper there Is a letter In It identical with the others. Not only that, but leading articles are sent out from Ottawa. This is what is called in the west the "Slftonlan Reptile Press." Sir, let me call your atteution to the gravity of this method. The press is one of the most efficient in- struments of government in a free com- munity. The organized opinion of which I spoke in the earlier part of my remarks Is mainly given voice and effect to in this coun- try by means of the press, and in order that the press shall do it, it must be an inde- pendent press. You cannot have a paper published 2,000 miles or 1,500 miles from Ottawa and the articles concocted for it here, and at the same time ha^e that news- paper fulfil the functions which the press ought to fulfil. Sir, the system thus adopt- ed is a fraud on the community. To have these letters sent out under the direction of one of the Ministers of the Crown, and sent out In order to boom that one Minister cuts at the very root of the Independence of the press. These letters are full of the greatness of the young Napoleon ; he is a hcrven-bom Minister ; everything h^ has done Is wonderful, and his immigration pol- icy is unequalled. Let me say en passant that In that immigration policy he has only followed the principle laid down by his pr«j- decessors. Mr. DnJy brought In some colo- nies of immigrants and the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton) Is doing the some thing. I did not at all agree with Mr. Daly having done so, because I disapprove of Immigra- tion by colonies. Everything that the young Napoleon does is perfect according to these letters. But sometimes a mistake is made, and one of the letters was sent to an inde- pendent paper called the " Grenfell Sun," edited by a very able man, Mr. John Nicholls. That paper contained the following article in lt!j edition some time ago : A few days ago yie received a comunication from a gentleman in Ottawa, offering to send us a weelcly political letter free of charge. We have received one already which we have pub- lished entire this weeli. We are always thankful to get live, up-to-date correspondence of either local or general interest, but judging from the letter we publish, our friend in Ottawa seems to be writing from an altogether partisan point of view in favour of the Government. Now, we desire to do the Government every Justice, as we appreciate the difficulties which men in such positions have to meet, but we can do that the more effectually, and also act more in accordance with our views of the public interest, by Judg- ing the Government by its own deeds, and not through any party-coloured spectacles. While therefore, we thank our friend for his courteous offer, we shall have to reserve to ourselves of Judging how far his letters may be intended to serve mere party and not general interests, and to act accordingly. This system of things was commenced by the Minister of the Interior, It seems, even before he became Minister of the Interior, becaase a Mr. W. G. King, who was one of his acolytes, and had fallen out with him, writes on the 4th of September, 1897, to express his disgust at the way he had been treated, and declares that the Minister of the Interior was deeply indebted to him, amongst other reasons for this : And he owes It also to the writer, who, br the Judicious management of the entire scuta Manitoba press, formed the entire public senti- ment in Mr. Sifton's favour, which ultimately secured his election by acclamation. So here, on the eve of his coming down to Ottawa, this Napoleonic gentleman of Na- poleonic Instincts and Napoleonic methods, had already corrupted the entire press of southern Manitoba. He had sent down a man who unblushlngly declares that he cor- rupted that press In order to secure the elec- tion of the hon. gentleman by acclamation. Says the " Telegram " : The judicious managetne.it of the western press for the fictitious manufacture of public sentiment in Mr. Sifton's favour has been sys- tematically pursued ever since. So gross has it become, that nine papers published simultan- eously as their own editorial an article defending Mr. Sifton, which has been prepared at Ottawa, and a number of others publish the same article otherwise than as an editorial. Nine papers publishing an editorial, de- clearlng that this gentleman who presides over the Department of the Interior is every- thing that Is to be desired as a statesman— an editorial concocted In the Deportment of 23 the Interior itself. Why, Sir, It Is a mon- strous state of things. As an old Liberal, Sir, I think you will be pained to learn that the organ of the Minister of the Interior In Winnipeg is laying down doctrines not only contrary to Liberal principles but con- trary to the principles of Liberal and Con- servatives In every free and constitutional country the world over. The Winnipeg " Free Press ' of February 6th takes occasion to comment severely on the action of the late Mr. Jameson In speaking at a meeting as foUons :— The effect of our representative system was to place a good deal of power in the hands of one man, who, as long as be has the support of the House of Commons, he was to a great extent a dictator. As soon as the Cabinet are united the members have to choose between following their decision and practically voting against his party. As a consequence, there might be a great deal of hasty legislation introduced which might not have the approval of a great number of members, and, under the Ideas of party disci- pline which prevail, that legislation goes through anyway. It is well known that Mr. Jameson, who was a man of large mind and broad sympathies, was entirely impatient of the boss system of machine politics that obtains here to-day In the Liberal party. Well, Sir, he was taken to task by the organ of the Minister of the Interior, which declares that this gentleman Is entirely mistaken in supposing that a member of Parliament 'should be indepen- dent. Not only that, but It says he is under a complete misunderstanding as to what is our parliamentary system. Referring to some extracts, which It quotes from a book, it says : If these extracts are read over carefully, it ■will be seen that the Government dictates every- thing to Parliament, and that it Is In accordance with our system that It should b» so. Parlia- ment is at liberty to reject the advice of the Qov- wnment, but it does so at peril of losing the services of that Government. It Is Indispensable that the House should have a leader, and that reponslble Minister Is not In the least Injured by being called a dictator. And it goes on to say that the proper view of a responsible Minister Is that he is a dic- tator to the party. I may say here, looklnar back at the past history of the Parliaments In which I liave sat, that anybody who goe.'* over that history will see that It was because I acted with the Independence I did since lt87, when I struck the first note of inde- pendence here, right on to the defeat of the Government— voting against them, and act- ing against them whenever It was necessary In the interest of the North-west Territories — It was for that reason I was able to do more than any other private member ever accoinpllshed. Now, Sir, what are we to think of a Liberal newspaper which comes out and declares as follows :— It ia laid down that the Oovernment Is not only responsible for legislation, but the author- ities go so far as to say that " It Is the special duty of the Oovernment, as the responsible lead- ers (dictators) of legislation, and the chosen guardians of the public interests In Parliament, to watch carefully the progress of private legis- lation lb the House and its committees, and see that it does not In any way interfere with the policy of the Ministry." It will be seen from this that the dictatorship is a fundamental part of the British system of parliamentary governmeot. 1 say, as everybody who is acquainted witb the constitutional history of England knows, that the true duty a member of Parliament has to perform is to express the opinion of The country and especially of his •constitu- ents. He comes here to confer. This is the great council of the nation. We are not th» laere puppets that this writer has made out We are the persons who govern the country, and these gentlemen of the Government are only a committee into whose hands, for con- venience sake, we place the duties and th« great responsibilities that are ours. But, Sir, this is in entire keeping with the view dear to the heart of the present Minister of the Interior, because. Sir, you remember what happened In regard to that monstrous transaction, the Teslln Lake Railway. Yon rememljer that seven days before Parliament met tliat gentleman had a contract— a con- tract that was not worth the paper it wa* written on without the sanction of this Par- liament—signed. Seven days before Parlia- ment met, that gentleman had that contract signed In secret, and thus showed a high- handed contempt for the independence and authority of this Parliament. Having mentioned that Tesiin Lake Rail- way, Mr. Speaker, I may say that since we were here last year, the Minister of the In- terior has placed the price of $10 sn acre on all the gold-bearing land in the Yukon. You remem^r. Sir, what we were told from these benches. We were told by one Min- ister ot the Crown that the gold-bearing land that was to be given to Mann & Maekenzio might turn out to be worth nothing— that it was all a huge gamble, and now not an acre of it can be had for less than $10. Let me dwell on the monstrosity of the bargain made by the Minister of the Interior with Mackenzie & Mann for that road, and I am going to point out features of It that were unknown to us last year, or at least were not fully known. First and foremost, you have '2').000 acres of this gold-bearing land which is now valued at $10 an acre, or $250,000, for the purpose of building one mile of a little tramway. You have 25,000 acres, worth on their I'ace, without anything being done at all. $250,- 000. You give that for tlie purpo.se of building what ? One mlie of a little tram- way, Just the length of two quarter sec- tions, but the best way of bringing it home to the farmers is this. Divide the 25,000 acres by 640, the number of 'acres in a sec- tion, and you have thirty-nine sections of gold-bearing land given to build the length of two quarters* of sections of a one-horee tramway. But what have we discovered since ? From the North-west Territories 24 was sent, In order to carry out certain regu- Ictions coasidered necessary, Mr. Bulyea, a prominent I^iberal in Dominion politics,wbo is a member of tlie local government. He bas told us what bas been told b^ more tbun one traveller, that that Hootuliuqua River would bave been perfectly useless as one of the links of that TesUn Lake Railway. Not only that, but on the other side there is an immense marsh, and the most recent re- ports we have from the Klondike country are to the effect that the worst possible route that i.ould have been chosen was that route. What were we told last session when there was a possibility of that happening which did ultimately happen, namely, the rejection of that Bill by the Senate V We were told that the people would starve. Have they starved ? No. We were told thai great evils would result. Great evils have not resulted. It was asserted to be the most feasible Hue. But a Hue has been built far Into that country without one dollar of help from the Dominion Government, and every- thing that has happened since has been of a character to demonstrate what I lay down here, that from the beginning to the end there has been nothlns' but bungling In the Klondike. Coming back once more to the Immigra- tion policy of the depaitment and the Im- migration of the Doukhobors, there is some- thing wrong, as I will show you, Mr. Speaker. A special arrangement was made with regard to this Doukhobor Immigration. So far as one can make out from the papers, seven dollars a head were given to these people. Whether given directly to the im- migrants or to Count Tolstoi, I do not know, but there Is something to be explained, and I refer to this In order that it may go on " Hansard," and that we may get an expla- nation by and by from the hon. Minister of Interior (Mr. Sifton). A committee met In London aud collected money to bring out the Doukhobors, and it seems that Count Tolstoi chartered vessels from Batoum to bring these immigrants here. Well, some 2,300 immigrants came out In one ship, and $7 a head for each of these would do much more than charter one of such vessels as brought them from Batoum, so that I think there is something to be Inquired Into re- garding the details of that arrangement. I repeat that I should like to see some thing like the same consldera^^^n given to our own people in England, Scotland and Ireland. I wish to refer to the ignorance on the part of the department as to its prop?r position with regard to the Yukon. And I think tli.at. considering that ray lion. friend the Minister of Interior (Mr. Sifton) is a lawyer, this ignorance la Inexcus able. You will remennber, Mr. Speaker, that last session, and I think also In 1807, I called the attention of the Minister of the Interior to the rival jurisdictions that might possibly arise In the Yukon, and I think I suggested that the Minister should at once Inform himself of his exact position and the exact rights In the Dominion Government In that Yukon territory, and Indicated what was my own strong opinion that It was the local government in the territories that had jurisdiction there. Well, what do we Und V We find that the department here began to exercise the functions of the local terri- torial government, and not only that, but Mr. Suiart actually telegraphed to Mr. Jus- It ico Richardson not to receive any recom- mendation for permits from the local gov- ernment in the territory. The consequence was that a correspoudencc. which 1 hope 10 move for in order that we may have the opj ortunity of reading it, took place, aud tlif* hon. Minister of Interior made a siate- inent, which I do not think we can cougra- tiilare him upon as a lawyer, bfcause if any man were ever hopelessly sat upon he was In that correspondence, the upshot of which was he had to yield completely to the coutentlous made by the Attorney General for the Terri- tijrles. While Mr. Bulyea was on his way lip he met Major Walsh, who was then the Commissioner of the Yukon. They met by appoiutiueut, and Mr. Bulyea sliowed Major Walsh the Order In Council under which he held his appointment, and his authority, under which the regulations were passed j which ho was instructed to enforce. The ' lirst officer of the Minister of the Interior I there. Major Walsh, scouted the Idea of his I appointment, and held that the appointment and regulations did not amount to anything. I .Mr. Bulyea then showed him the North-west Territories Act, under which the Lieutenant- Governor of tbe Territories has the sole right to Issue permits and to regulate all matters in connectioi with the liquor traffic, and pointed out to him that the Act of the Par- liament of Canada under which his appoint- ment was made could not be superseded by nn Order in Council or instructions from the Ottawa Government. Mr. Bulyea went to the Yukon aud got to Dawson. The first sign of coming trouble was the receipt by Mr. Oonstantine, the Inspector of mounted police out there, of a letter from Major Walsh. When, as a result, the former re- signed from the Board, he gave Mr. Bulyea by request a copy of the letter. Mr. Bulyea read It to the House. Major Walsh wrote cautioning Mr. Constantino against recogniz- ing the man sent out by the North-west Ter- ritories Government to issue wholesale liquor rermlts and regulate the tariff ; that Mr. Bulyea seemed to be a first rate fellow but had no business to be there. Mr. Bulyea pointed out that such a letter from his super- ior officer placed Mr. Constantino in a diffi- cult position. Next day they met again, and the major seemed In very bad humour. Major Walsh said, he was surprised that, after what he had told Mr. Bulyea, the latter should have Interfered with the liquor business. Bulyea replied, that he was acting strictly 'i 28 'i by authority and under express Instructions from the lawful authorities. The major got angry, and, as it was Sunday, and a crowd commencpd to gather, Bulyea moved away. Walsh informed him that he (Bulyea) bad no Jurisdiction, that he (Walsh) would see all the parties and tell them that anybody had a right to engage in the retail liquor imsiness, regardless of Bulyea, and that Bul- yea had no machinery for enforcing regula- tions. Then, later on In this report, we are told, how the major gave licenses to whom he pleased, and refused licenses to whom he pleased, and the resuH was, that, after a short time, be Introduced such confusion into Dawson that Dawson was back again to the old system of no restriction whatever. You ask : Why, then, did not Mr. Bulyea enforce the law ? He tried to enforce it. But Wade was the only lawyer, and Wade would not act for him, and when another lawyer came, he was afraid of Wade, and would not take instructions, while the mag- istrates were afraid of Walsh. So here was the proper representative of the only legal authority in these matters, namely, Mr. Bul- yea, let and hindered by the oflacers of the Department of the Interior, the magistrates afraid of the Attoreny General to act. and the whole process of law hindered and ham- pered by a Dominion official. Mr. Speaker, this same kind of bungling still goes on : similar Incapacity, illustrated by what I have read to the House, Is still rampant there. I think I have substantiated, so far, at all events, as the Department of the In- terior is concerned what I said last session, or a couple of sessions ago— a remark which created so much perturbation in the mind of the Minister of the Interior— that this Ad- ministration has not the instinct of govern- ment. Now. I will come back to this map. When I was exposing the colossal blunder of having, in a map issued by the Depart- ment of the Interior, the Yukon boundary showm as contended for by the Americans, the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Tarte) asked to see the map. The map was sent over to him, and what does he point out, as though it was a cause of triumph. He points out a note here at the end : " The question of the boundary between Canada and Alaska is undecided. The boundary line is shown on the map as claimed by the United States." But anybody who looks at the printing of that note, will see that It Is In a different type from the line immedi- ately above it. It Is plain, the printing of this was an afterthought. The colossal blunder had been committed of having this map, " Issued by the authority of the Hon. Clifford Slfton," printed and published In Chicago, and, when It was pointed out by the critics that the printers in Chicago had put in the boundary as contended for by the United States, evidently these maps were sent out to a printer in Ottawa, and on the whole two hundred thousand this note was printed. What is the meaning of this sys- tem of giving work away from our own peo- ple, sending to the United States to have our maps for the Department of the Interior ? When you pass the building where our cur- rency la issued, you will see the sign,v and what is it ? Is it " Canadian Bank Note Company " ? No, It Is " American "—it is an American institution. I confess to you, Mr, Speaker, that I do not understand this system of going outside of our country to have work done, when we have men in the country perfectly competent to do it. But when such a blunder has been committed as in this case, I do not understand the action of the Minister of the Crown who will have a little note of that kind printed, instead of frankly acknowledging that he had commit- ted a blunder and withdrawing the evl'^ence of that blunder from the public sight The Minister of Trade and Commerce (Sir Richard Cartwrlght), in his speech, did not recall the Cartwrlght of this side of the House. We all remember what a lion of the Tribe of Judab the Minister of Trade and Commerce was, when he was on this side, free and unshackled, preaching the Liberal doctrines dear to George Brown and Alex- ander Mackenzie. He was the strong fight- ing man of the Liberal party. But now he has gone over there, and he, the denouncer of nepotism, he the denouncer of " robbers great and robbers small," among the manu- facturers—there he is, tolling, like the blind Samsoni in the mill of the Philistines, with one son in one department and another son in another department, Cartwrlght after Cartwrlght feeding at the public crib, his independence gone completely. Somebody has sent me a list of the hon. gentleman's relatives in Government employ. I had no idea that the number was so great. Why, he Is a more nepotlzed Minister " than has been." Here Is the list : 1. Minister of Trade and Commerce (Sir Richard Cartwrlght), $8,000 a year. 2. Rev. C. Cartwrlght (brother), cliaplaln of the Kingston Penitentiary. 3. Robert Cartwrlght (aon), AsslsUnt Attorney General. 4. Frank Cartwrlght (aon), Inspector North-west j Mountod Police. 5. Harry Cartwrlght (son), Ontario civil service. 6. Jas. Cartwrlght (cousin), position In Osgoode Hall. 7. John Cartwrlght (cousin), Deputy Attorney General. Toronto. 8. M. O'Hara (second cousin), private secretary and with the commission. 9. Straubenzle Cartwrlght (second cousin), ap- I i^olnted to Military School before quallflod. I 10. Mr. O'Hara (married to cousin). Master In Chancery, Chatham, Ont. ; Government appoint- ment. Why, Sir, It is no wonder his Independence Is buried under such a heap. Mr. H. A. POWELL (Westmoreland). That Is why he cannot sing the old songs. Mr. DAVIN. That is true. The hon. Min- ister made a very peculiar point. He smiled 26 oleaglnouBly at the thought that the Oov- ernment were able to carry by-elections by Improper means. That Is the only way of interpreting what he said. He said : You and I Mr. Speaiier— he was addressing you, Sir, and I do hope that there was no truth in the ituplicatiou ; I do not believe. Mr. Speaker, that you ever could have known anything about ways that are dark and tricks that are vain in election matters. But he says : You and I, Mr. Speaker, know very well how by-elections are carried. And he seemed to glory In It. What is the fact underlying the recent by-elections ? Not- withstanding the sneers cast across this House by my hon. friend the Liberal whip, these elections are full of hope. You must remember that with the exception of Bagot. every one of them except one was a strong Mberal constituency. In West Lambton we gained 400 votes ; In West Huron we gained 150 votes. In Simcoe they put up a Liberal against a cousin of the late Dalton McCarthy and they were unable to carry it. With the exception of Bagot, they carried champion Grit constituencies with reduced majorities, notwithstanding, the truth underlying the opinion I am going to read to you of the value of by-elections expret^sed by the Min- ister of Trade and Commerce himself. This is what he said at a time when the Conser- vative party was winning by-elections : Yet, nevertheless, with all those things against them, we And the Government sustained at all points throughout Ontario, and absolutely win- ning 18 out of 20 by-elections. Sir, the mere statement o{ those figures is in itself enough. Does any sane human being who knows anything at all of the conditions of political life believe for one moment that this result was obtained by honest means ? The thing is an absurdity. Those figures carry condemnation on the very face of them. " As well defend Sodom." As well say that it is possible to cast double sixes eigh- teen times out of twenty. Sir, it is only possible on one condition, and on one only — that the dice are loaded. Are the dice loaded now ? I am afraid the dice are loaded, and I am afraid, from the course taken by one of the Ministers especi- ally, that the dice are loaded very heavily to-day. I want to call the attention of the House to the extraordinary course taken by this Governmeat in regard to what is called the school question, bearing out, as it does, the character for dupli- city that I contend Inheres In this Govern- ment. On the 5th of September. 1896. a correspondent of the Brandon " Sun " in- quired of the present First Minister as to the tiTJth of a story In the " Mall and Empire " that the Government had sent an emissary to Rome on the Manitoba school question, he replied In these words : " It Is one of the 'Mall's' usual canards, there is not a word of truth in It." Well, we know that bince that time several emissaries hav« been sent to the eternal city. We know that Mr. Dvo- let was sent, we know that Mr. Russell was sent, that the Solicitor General was sent, and that the Prime Minister went there himself. So it would seem this correspond- ent did not get much satisfaction, because we know very well that these gentlemen have been sent, and that the right hon. gen- tleman himself addressed a letter to the Cardinal, who is Secretary of State of the Vatican, on the subject of the Manitoba schools, and we heard in this House that he acknowledged he had written It. I am told that the Minister of Public Works has made statements to the effect that the Catholics of Manitoba have got back all they had been deprived of by the Martin Act, and in " La Patrle " of November, 29th, 1898, it is said : The French Canadians of Manitoba enjoy more privileges in the schools than before 1890. Yet more than two years ago we were told by the Prime Minister, immediately after the House met here, that the school question had been settled. So that those who hoped that the settlement that was made was a final one, if what is stated from tdme to time is true, are deceived ; and on the oth«r hand, if it was a final one and if there has been nothing done since, those who are assured that in con- sequence of this diplomatic action all that was taken away by the Martin Act has been restored— those persons must be deceived. I want to say a word on a question that interests a large number of ray constituents, I refer to the plebiscite. You will remember that the right hon. gentleman, replying to one of the leaders of the Temperance Alliance, i stated that he could not act upon the vote I which took place upon the plebiscite. I call I attention to what the Montreal " Dally Wlt- I ness," a Liberal paper, says on that head : I Meantime, we protest very strongly against i the disingenuous language used by those Liberal \ papers in deprecating the vote. Their language i from one end of the country to the other about i the prohibitionists having polled " a very small : minority of the registered vote," is a simple im- ; pertinence, seeing that outside the province of ; Quebec, in which the vote was abnormal, pro- hibition polled five-sixths as many votes as were ! polled for the straight candidates of the Liberal ; party in the triumphant general election of the I 26th of June, 18!' '., and that they did this out . of a panel of voters one-tenth smaller. The poll- j able vote is v'suall. considered about 70 ' per cent of thd total vote on the list. At the last general election, the lists being old, only 68 ; per cent was polled. Outside of Quebec the ; number of votes on the lists was almost exactly a million, of which the Liberals polled at that i election, for straight party candidates, almost ; exactly 300,000, or 30 per cent of the voters on the list, being 44 per cent ol the vote actually polled. The number on the list for the plebiscite ' vote was as nearly as possible 900,000, of which the prohibitionists polled Just about 250,000, or ?8 per cent of the whole list, and 40 per cent of the presumable pollable vote. Considering that those who voted for prohibition did so from purely , patriotic Impulses, without any of the usual per- j sonal and partisan Incentives to goad them to i the polls, and, considering that there is almost no i other case on record in which the vote on a mere 1 proposition apart from party or personality has 27 not been been meagre, it would be nonsenae to treat these figures as insignificant or as aoj- other than extraordinary and startling. The only question that remains open is as to what their real significance may be, and whether, in spite of the opposition or indifference of the province of Quebec, they do or do not constitute a man- d<»te to do something. That states as much of the argument as Is necessary for me to place before the House. I want, Sir, to say one word that will show to you and to the members here to-night how our money Is being spent and how the ex- travagance to which I have referred Is being piled up. I am glad that the Minister of Public Works Is la his place. I will take three speciment bricks, as It were, of the building, of the— I do not really know what to call It, because if I use the word that comes to my lips I am afraid It would not be parliamentary ; so I will leave It unexpress- ed. The Minister of Public Works has gone Into amateur dredging. There is a man In the west named McGllllcuddy, and he was kicking hard— very hard, whereupon he was given the contract for dredging Goderlch harhur. I do not suppose McGllllcuddy ever saw a dredge. Mr. BERGERON. And without tender. Mr. DAVIN. I do not think there were any tenders. It would be an Interesting spectacle to see McGllllcuddy advancing, pen in hand to dredge Goderlch harbour. You have a companion picture in Montreal. You have Mr. Gauthler. He never saw a dredge ; he has no dredge ; he does not know anything about dredging, and he too has a 120,000 contract for dredging. If we ask the Minister of Public Works, " Is he a relative ?" he says, " No," but when we ask him If he Is not his son's father-in-law, he says : " How can I help it if my sons have fathers-in-law." Surely the public of Can- ada are entitled to the difference between what the people pay Gauthler and what the people pay McGilliculdy, and what McGllll- cuddy and Gauthler pay others to do the dredging. The Minister of Public Works says, when we ask him, " Why do you not give the contract to dredgers ?" When we ask the Minister of Public Works, " Why do you not give the contracts to dredgers ? " He says : " How can I do that and put money into the pockets of my friends ? " He tells us that all the dredges are in the hands of Tory dredgers, and he says that If he were to ask for tenders the contracts mlghl go to Tory dredgers. He turns around and gives a contract to one man who has kicked hard in one case, aud in another to a man who happens to be one of his son's father-in- law. I might repeat what I said here before of that deal for that $30,000 that was got for buying " La Patrlo " in connection with the Drummond County deal. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). There is not one word of truth in that, not one word of truth, and the hon gentleman knows it. I Mr. DAVIN. The hon. gentleman sayt ; there Is not a word of truth In that, but I my hon. friend swore In court that he did ' not tell the truth to this House in regard to it. He swore that wliat he said to this ] House was not true. How am I to know I that what he Is telling us now Is true ? { Mr. SPEAKER. The hon. gentleman must ; not refuse to accept the statement of the Minister. Mr. DAVIN. I do not refuse to accept my hon. friend's statement, but, Sir, I do not endoirse it. Mr. WALLACE. I do not think that the Minister of Public Works has a right to interrupt the proceedings of this House. Mr. SPEAKER. I have given my deci- sion on the point. Mr. DAVIN. I abide by the decision. Mr. J. TOLMIE (West Bruce). Mr. Speaker, the hon. member (Mr. Davin) has made an assertion that Mr. McGllllcuddy Some hon. MEMBERS. Order, order. Mr. SPEAKER. There can be no per- sonal explanation when the hon. gentleman (Mr. Davin) has the floor unless he chooses to give up the floor. Mr. DAVIN. I hope the hon. gentleman will deal with Mr. McGllllcuddy when I am done, because the more this matter Is ventilated the better the people will see how the debt is being piled up and the way that extravagance is going on. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). I rise to say that the hon. gentleman is altogether mistaken. Mr. Mc- Gllllcuddy never got any dredging contract from me. Mr. TAYLOR. He got one for crib and pier work. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). After pubHc tender. Mr. TAYLOR. No, without public tender. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). After public tender. Mr. TAYLOR. It was never advertised. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). After public tender, I say it again, and it is true. Mr. DAVIN. I think I have McGlllicuddy's own words here. The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). I do not care what he says, the contract is there. The contract was given after public tender. Mr. DAVIN. If my hon. friend will not take what McGlllicudily himself says, what are we to say. Of course, there is no con- tract if he would take what McGllllcuddy says. 'i w^ 28 The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS! (Mr. Tarte). Mr. McGllUcuddy never got ' anj contract for dredging, and be never got I any contract without public tender. These j are the facts. ' Mr. SPEAKER. The Minister of Public' Works must really ask the permission of ! the hon. member who has the floor. | Mr. DAVIN. In 1890 I pointed over toj the Government, and I said It had the colour i of death in Its face. A still more danj^eroits \ symptom has manifested it«elf to-day, a moribund symptom has manifested Itself, ! and It Is the same symptom that manifested | Itself two years and a half after tho Mae , kenzle Government came into power. They began to plunder, to get deeper and deeper Into the quagmire. The moment that any- body criticised them, Instead of being able to refute what their critics said, they got out of temper like the Minister of Pnl)llc Works and like my right hon. friend the Prime Minister In his speech, which was not up to the mark to which he or any other Prime Minister should attain. He had lost his temper, and the Minister of Trade and Commerce had also lost his temper, and this is a sure sign that the Government Is moribund. Now, I will give Dan's own words ; I did not Intend to take up the time of the House by doing it:— To the first count— being an offlce-seelcer — we plead guilty. After nearly a quarter of a cen- tury's faithful service In tho not very Temun- eratlve business of making politicians out of " nobodies," or as Kipling says of Sergeant What's-Hls-Name. In " malting men out of mud," Mr. McQllilouddy came to the conclusion that when an ofBce became vacant be had as much right to It as any other man In Huron, and he thinks so still. At the same time, Mr. McLean was of a slrnilar opinion, and was an applicant for the self-same position. The only ditrerence between the two was that McGllU- cuddy made no application until the office was vacant, whilst Mr. McLean put In his application as soon as the registrar was taken 111, and about a year before the death of the then Incumbent. If we mistake not, he was the first on the door- step, waiting for death to step In and give him a job. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have heard what my hon. friend has to say about Mr. McGllli- cuddy. Will he tell us something about Gauthler or about the Edmonton bridge, about that outrage upon the pockets of the people of this country where a contract was made at $35,000 for solid ashlar masonry V Without new tenders and without anybody else being allowed to tender, and without any modification In price a man Is allowed to change a specification from ashlar masonry to concrete, which does not cost half as much. Sir, If the hon. gentleman will allow me to talk metaphorically, I put the handcuffs on his wrists last year and there is no sul)- hmary power can take them off. I will tell you why. If he will recall what I did, he knows that I took the excuse that was made for this transaction. The excuse was that the contractor went up to Edmonton, went to the quai'ry some ten miles from Edmon- ton, Inspected the stone there, then came back and inspected the stone at Calgary, came to Ottawa and then entered the office and told the department there was no stone either at Calgary or Edmonton fit to make piers for a bridge The cau- tious department sent Mr. St. Laurent at once to examine whether what this contrac- tor Mr. Lemolne said was true or not. He :Lronounced by the Minister of Public Works Mr. Tarte). If they were, they were an In- terruption In my speech ; and, as the sn;;- gestlon is palpable, I uhould bare dealt with them then. I am told that the Minister of Pnbllc Works went down to the " Hansard ** leporter and got him to Insert these words Now, I want to ask the Minister of Public Works wtiether be used these wotvls. If he did, I certainly want them withdrawn. The MINISTER OP PUBLIC WORKS (Mr. Tarte). Mr. Speaker, I may say that I used those words. I do not suppose the hon. gentleman applied tbem to himself. I hope and trust— I am sore such Is the fact— that there Is no scallawag in the House. It is a general sentence that I had a right to us*, Just as the hon. gentleman had^ right to use some other general sentence. As to l.avln;j gone to the reporter, it is |rue. Sir, I did so. I know something about nlwspaper ^rork and about reporting ; and, lobking at the reporter, I saw that he had ndt^ineerted the words that I had used. I may >uive made a mistake in going to him. I asked him, pflsslng by, whether he had put down my words or not. He s^id no. I told him : " I want my words to be Inserted." If, by so doing, I hare committed an offence agaJniit the House, I am very, very sorry for It ; and, as we are entering^ into a week of penance, I am going to submit to any spirit- ual or corporal puoTshment which yoxi, Sir, uay deem fit to mete out to me. hope -tbat t la a I us*, ht to ks to . Sir, ;wper ig *t erted have usked Sown him : f, by fence y for 9k of plrit- , Sir, \