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 THE 
 
 JVjaqitoba ^cF|ool (lluestion. 
 
 SPEECH DELIVERED 
 
 BY 
 
 Hon. JAMES E. P. PRENDERGAST, 
 
 [Member for Woodlands), 
 IN THK 
 
 Lfegislativ'e Assembly of JViaqitoba, 
 
 On the 10th and 12th days of March, 
 
 A. D. 1 8 90. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 BIHi iO li ij, : N VUONAIE 
 
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 TIh^ Pjirlijmiont ofriUinda \vill nnct :i few <l;iys li«'n((\ niid surely 
 all tnu' lovers (tf cducatinn iiiusl \visli ti» sec tlic .Manitoha Schools 
 dillicnlty I'lilly solved hoCorc the sossiou is over. 
 
 The (jU(\-;tinii. in its jzoneral jtriiieiples. has tiiiu^ and a.irain hceii 
 laid hefoi-(> the puhlic. Oil the other hand, there are matters eonneetc<l 
 Nvilii the (deiioiiiiiiatioiial ) Schools Act of iSSl, as administered l»y tin* 
 Catholic Section ol" the Sui)i)rossed JV)ard of Education, of which com- 
 paratively little is known outside tlio Province. 
 
 As th(\-^e have Ixmmi nu'.dc the occasion of serious accusations, am- 
 ountiii^f soinctiiiics to char.ires of nialfi^asance of ollice against the de- 
 funct Catholic Section of the J)oard. it is thought i»ro})cr t<» give more 
 ))uhlicity to what was at the time adduced in defence. 
 
 l"'or this purpose, we jiuhlish in seiiarate form parts of ii speech de- 
 livered hy Mr. Prenderga^^t in 181X). 
 
 The constitutional argument and historical }>art havcl)eon expunged, 
 as having sinc(> liecMi so often dealt with. 
 
 A\'e hope that the iiortit»ns we rejiroiluce shall enal)le the pul)lic to 
 judge, in the face of so many idle charges, to what extent Catholic Schools 
 ill Manitol>a have been Skcukt and Txki'FIciknt. — what the C.itliolic 
 School Reserve I'^und scandal, amongst others, has amounted to. —and 
 AViiAT Si'Ms our Protestant friends l)av(> contrihuted to the (mIu- 
 eation of our Catholic children in Manitoha. 
 
 Till'. ■• .\oi!'i"in\ i:-T I!i:\'ii:\v." 
 \Vi.\.\in:<.. ..T.\.\r.\i:v l.')th 1S'.>;5. 
 

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 i 
 
 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY 
 
 *>v 
 
 MANITOBA, 
 
 IOtii am» 12tii MAlU'ir, A.D. ISDO. 
 
 Mk. rUKXHEIKiAST : — 
 
 Mr. Si'kakkh, — 
 
 Tills Ifoiiso, T jiin sure, will recol- 
 lect an incident wliich luippeneil lierc 
 only li year and a liult'a'jd in the t'ourse 
 of one ofour most spirited debates, when 
 the Hon. .Attorney-denerul* cominented 
 with such particular eniphasis npon ti.<' 
 course of action wliicli my lion, friend 
 for Kusscdl-*- hail cliosen lit to adopt in 
 ccjnnection with the (luestion then at 
 i8.«ne : a course of action, I mn.st say, con- 
 stituting tlio most heinous of crimes, in 
 that my hon. friend's o[)inion iiai)i)(Micd 
 to he concurred in by the most promi- 
 nent conservative memhers of this 
 House, r well recollect, amongst other 
 thiujis, with what ironical entlinsiasm, 
 in his eloipicnt and clear-rinL'in«r voice, 
 the hon. i:entleman alluded to that 
 "thrill of tleli>rlit " which, he said, must 
 iiave passed throuj^h tlie heart of my 
 hon, friend for Ktissell, when ho found 
 himself upon that yiarticular issue, he 
 a liberal, standiuL" upon tlie same i^round 
 and hand in liand with old John Xor- 
 «^nay. No irony was too pointed, no sai- 
 <'asm was too bitter for tlie hon. iiontle- 
 man's purpose. The member for Russell 
 had allowed his libei'al heart to weaken I 
 
 •Hdh. Jos. N'lirtiii. 
 f.Mr. J.'unis I''islii r. 
 
 lie had allowed liis lilieral bosom to 
 .Soften I the sanctuary of his liberal prin- 
 <'iples had been invaded! Tn fact. Sir, 
 it seemed as thoii;.'h nothing; else was 
 left to my hon. friend here, but, actinjx 
 under the stiu^,' of liis conscience, to 
 lanish himself, a voluntary exile, from 
 the pale of the liberal jiarty. 
 
 Sim-e then, Sir, only a few month.s 
 have passed. IWit slujrt as they have 
 been, they have not j^one by, however, 
 without oi)eratin;,'SonuM)f those metamor- 
 phosis which seem to be the cherished 
 work of time. 
 
 Sterner hearts than that of my hon. 
 friend for Russell have weakened ! 
 sterner bosoms have melted ! sanctuaries 
 reputed even more sacred in liberalism, 
 have been invaded I And we stand to- 
 day in that position that we may well 
 wonder in our turn at that other thrill 
 of dehVht which must have run through 
 tl'.e heart of the hon. Attorney-General, 
 w hen he found himself, upon that mem- 
 orable occasion of last summer, upon 
 that ('(debrated platform at I'ortaire-la- 
 IVairie, stauiling iiand in haml with that 
 ^'ool. staunch, steilinu' f>ld liberal, Mr. 
 iJalton .McCarthy. And more, Sir, what 
 must be tUit feeliu<' of intense deliLrht 
 
uIu'H tu-iliiy, sIiiikUii;: oii llio (mic sidc! 
 upon tliat i)l;itli>riii, li(^ him-s (tii tin; otlicr, 
 iiuiHtenid ii^Tiiinst liiiii in tin; stern array 
 of trnc! and earnest Htatt'snian.sliii), lliosr 
 nuMi wiio arc! ndt only flic .staiiilanl 
 bcariTS of our liberal destinii-s. but 
 M'hoso names liave come In !'«' (be \(>ry 
 b.uinci's (if the liberal party: tbe I'.lakcs^ 
 tlic baiiriers, tlie >b»\vats, the .Mills, 
 tbe CarluriLilils, and last,, but not least, 
 old Ak'xander Mackenzie. 
 
 II t lioso <ireat nu'n of our history of tlic 
 day, if those vi;.Mlant, cnst(»dians of the 
 c<t!istitution, that ark of our alliance, 
 w (M'e hi're, i wonder whether tin' lion, 
 •ientleman would llnd himself clad with 
 Hiillicicnt authority to dictate as aL'ainst 
 them what liberal princiiiles are or.snould 
 lie, whether in this i)rovince or in the 
 Dominion at hnve. 1 wtnider whether 
 lie would reiterate bis statement that 
 tbey have shown themselves recreant to 
 their trust, and whether he would persist 
 in jiosin;; in their jiresence as tbe self- 
 constituted champion of true liberal 
 principles. 
 
 But they are not here. Sir, and no 
 more in spirit than in person. Their 
 vast experience, tbe wei^dit of their 
 knowledj:e, the wisdnm of their counsel 
 and tbe solemnity of their warninirs 
 are to notbinj; amon«rst us. Their vi^d- 
 lant watch over our constitutional liber- 
 ties is to be overcome, and, as history 
 repiMts itself, the Ark bas a^'ain fallen 
 in the hands of tbe riiilistines. 
 
 In the absence of others moie worthy, 
 it now falls upon me to rise and speck 
 upon this most ;irave and ditlicnlt (jue!-:- 
 tion of education wbicb is before tlie 
 House. I feel tbe obstacles which are in 
 my way, and the special ditlicnlties un- 
 der whicli I laboin". I fidly realise ni}' 
 inexperience as contrastiiiL' with the 
 ability of niy fritmds opposite, and the 
 
 j.'reat disadvanta;.'e under which I have 
 to Htrn^iile in j.dvinir (expression to my 
 views in a lan^'ua;_'e which is not my 
 nintber tonu'ue. I have, however, a duty 
 to pcrfnrni ; and if with some be'utancy 
 at the tin* start, and not without fauit 
 throu;:hout, I will neve.'tlieles.s surely 
 perlorm it without tear. It is a iluty 
 wliich I owe to the •J(»,(iO(i Woman Catho- 
 lic citizens of Manitoba, which I owe to 
 all true lovers (.f christian education 
 witlnnit distinction ol' creed or nation- 
 ality, which I owe to my constituents, 
 and w liich I owe to myself. 
 — Now, Sir, to be;_Mn with, it may per- 
 liaps be of interest to examine in w hat 
 spirit this new policy, so dear to tbe 
 l^overnment, bas been propounded. 
 
 We have beard the lion. Attorney- 
 (.nuieral. Of course, we are not allowed 
 to judj.'e by their actions the lion, ^'en- 
 tlemen occupy! m.: the treasury benches; 
 we are not to see the too-evident 
 intention of their bill : we have oidy to 
 bear and receive their otlicial declara- 
 tions in the House. We have it, then, 
 tliat their Sole aim is to create a broad 
 system of (ulucation, to establish purcdy 
 national sidiools, ojjen to everybody 
 alike, accessible to the Jew and tbe 
 ( tentile, to those from llebruu and those 
 from .Mesoi)otamia. In this, tbe remotest 
 thouLdit as to nationality or cree 1 bas 
 l)een carelully banisiied from their nunds 
 antl much less has it ever been their aim 
 to barm or wound in any way their 
 Roman Catholic compatriots. J n fact, it 
 would rather seem as if the hou. ;;entle- 
 men bad a particular affection for us, 
 and as if the bill was lor our more espe- 
 cial relief. I would almost, here, be 
 tempted to beseech them to love us a little 
 less, and to love us a little Itetier. 
 
 r>ut bow was this i)olicy inau^'urated ? 
 
 When, at INIelita, last summer, tbe 
 
TToii. Minislor o\ I'lihlif Works, liiiviiijr 
 }iy liis side my Iioii. friend the [-ciuler 
 iiftlii' '_'<iv»Miuii('iit, tiiriimhU'.'tl that )M)licy 
 ill jMiMic tor tiM' (IrHt tiino, wimt words 
 iliil li(i use? wiiat feeliii^rs did lie 
 expresH'.' — Oiu^ .surely would liiiv<' ev- 
 l»0('ted liiiii lodiscii.ss this ;.'rave (Hiestioii 
 ill a statesiiianlil<«> iiianiKT, to lay down 
 some of thosc^ ;ireaf, primijilos uiider- 
 lyiiiL' tiK! educational prohlem, ainl 
 to attempt, at least to enli^^htcn tlu' 
 liiildic belore him. Ihit no, Sir. His 
 first utterances were; an attack au'ainst 
 Catholic Schools, an assault uiion Cath- 
 olic rateiiayers, an onslaiiirht of the 
 Catholic Section of the Uoard of Kiln- 
 cation. 
 
 Let 118 now open, I shall not Hay one, 
 hut all the newspapers suj)portin<j; the 
 ^roverii icnt in this matter. llavethev 
 l>een very easier to show the superiority 
 of the one principle as atrainst the other? 
 Have they d(!Voted many of their col- 
 umns to an earnest examination, a 
 Herioiis study of the (piestion ? No, a;.'ain. 
 r.iit day afterday, and week after week, 
 the worst uhnse has been poured ou 
 everything and overybody havin<: the 
 name of Catholic, whether connected 
 with educational matters or not. 
 
 And my friend tiu^ ilon. Attorney- 
 ( leneral, what occasion did he ehoose to 
 make his views publiclorthe first time on 
 the (piestion? With particular tact and 
 no doubt to show how unprejudiced Ik; 
 Avas in the matter, he chose that very 
 occasion to whi.h I have already 
 referred, when Mr. Unlton McCarthy, 
 oiijia-jed in his nefarious canipai;.'n and 
 racing: fr(»m Montreal to N'anconver, 
 stopped last summer at I'ortaw la 
 Vrairie to denounce everything French 
 or Catholic in the land. 
 
 And to tak(! tlu^ matter at its very 
 root, what was the true nat'.irc* of that 
 
 eampai^rn of Mr. McCarthy's' I need 
 not myself flenonnce it as a bitter war of 
 creed and races, for that gentleman hais 
 practically ilono .so himself at that mon»- 
 orable meeting.; held at Stayiu - in 
 Ontario. In his spet'ch dcOivered there, 
 so supreme was tho insult flaunted iu 
 the face (>f my nationality, .so ^;ross 
 were the .\(»rds in which it was express- 
 ed, that I cannot better sti<.'mati/.t» it 
 tliaii !>y sayin;,' that it is not lit to b(( 
 
 • luoteil iu a respectable assembly. 
 
 I then wish tho lion. <:enlleman to 
 uiuUn'stand this. Jf there is one tliinj; 
 aliovo all others of which we feel 
 convinced, it is of the true intention, ol 
 tlie real aim of their policy. It is dir- 
 ected against ns as Catholics; it is cal- 
 
 • ulated to destroy one class of schools, 
 our Cath(»lic s>'hools: it is intended to 
 hurt us, in that which is closest to our 
 hearts, our Catholic convictions. 
 
 1 sincerely and deeply regret, Sir, that 
 I should lie so outspoken. I will bo 
 credited, J h(jpe, with usually taking 
 rather a moderate view of public matters. 
 My excuse tt>day is tliat I have not 
 freely chosen the position in which 1 now 
 stand. The very utterances, tiie very 
 deeds of the gentlemen opposite force us 
 to this one conclusion, and for my part I 
 must confess that I cannot adopt any 
 other. 
 
 The Hon. Attorney-( leneral the other 
 day, has e.\hil)itei! to us in their most 
 minute details, all the delicate and 
 varied beauties of that choice jewtd, his 
 School-Hil!. It may be very line, I 
 admit. Vet, Sir. we should not forget 
 thattiie new law which he proposes, 
 even if excellent, has not yet been 
 tested by experience; that we are not 
 asked to-day to provide for the lir.st time 
 a lu \v provinci! with some educational 
 svstem or otiier, but to do awav with a 
 
i\ 
 
 HyHlciu vvliicli liiiH now ciiiliii'cl noiiii) 
 twiMity years iimoiiuKt mm, and iiliiiilly 
 HiiliNlitiilc aiiothcr in itfl place. Kspc* 
 »ially ill view ol'lln" lat-t that we are not 
 too sure of the value of thai w hidi we 
 ar<' to re(t'i\(' liaik, it wouM I lien sei'in 
 consistent with pniilenc*^ to first ascei- 
 t am the worth of I hat w hicli we arc as Led 
 to uive nj), auil to st>t^ it onr pii'sent edu- 
 cational law is so had, so unjust, so 
 pernicious after all. 
 
 -- Ihit, even hefore doin;.' this, 1 Jcel that 
 soniethint' shoulii first he said ahoiit the 
 chjirjies that have heen made in connec- 
 tion with the administration of that law. 
 
 Those (•har;.'es, I must say, hoth within 
 this House and without, have all Ikhui 
 directed, not a;_'ainstthe Hoard ot Mduc.i- 
 tiou jzenorally, hut, as mi^dit.he e'Xpecte.l, 
 (Uily aiiuinst the Catholic section of tiiat 
 r.oar(l. 
 
 Sitme are, comparatively speaUiui:, ol 
 minor importance ; hut weretla; -greater 
 numlier acct^pted as [troviui, t luui IJoman 
 Catholics are not to he r(died ui)on, they 
 are r.ot to be treste 1, i:i fa<t they are not 
 even fit to he or. Unary citizens. Y(;s, 
 for nu)nths ]>ast,the worst abuse, the 
 most stiu^dnii insiiits, have been catered 
 to us as our daily bread, (ientlemen 
 who have toiled and snll'ered for twenty, 
 thirty and ft)rty years in this country, 
 w ho have devoted their w hole livi's to 
 this sacred cause ot education, w Lose 
 nanies command a universal feeliuij; of 
 veneration throu;_di tlie leu;:th and 
 breadth of this Ihtniinioe, have come to 
 be i'harjj:e 1 with bein;^ uothin;j: moi-e 
 than vul^'ar end»ez/lers. These, perhaps, 
 were not the exact wcrds, but 1 will 
 show in a moment whether tiii.s is not 
 the clearest inference possible. 
 
 To be;j:m with, Catholic s.-hools are said 
 to be "secret." 
 
 Much iias Iteen said ol this secrocy 
 w liich is throw II l)y CatholicH, (desi^iuedly 
 of course) as an obstatlt; belore tiio in- 
 vest i '/at in;.' eye of the >:overnment anil 
 of the ijublic. And I understand how 
 often, in their h^ritimale anxii'ty, my 
 IVicu<|s <ippusile muHt havt' wondered 
 at those dark mysteries of medieval a;i« 
 translerred from the dun;.'eoiis of the 
 monasteries ol (dd. toonr ( 'atholic schools. 
 Their anxii'ty, I rejieat it, was a le;;iti- 
 matc one. I only tind that it did not ^'(» 
 far enou;:h, and I wish to show how easy 
 it Would have becui to avail themselves 
 oltlie ippportunity to make out a case 
 ajiaiust Catholic s.'hools, had tlu^y 
 (diiy been aware of tlu; ])owi'rs which tlio 
 law, printed in lull h'tters as it is, vest.-* 
 in them. 
 
 As a matter of fact Catholic schools are 
 no moiH! secret tiian Protestant schools. 
 They only differ in this: that more I'ro- 
 testards have a ri;:ht to visit and inspect 
 Catholic schools, tiian Catholics have to 
 visit i'rotestant schools. 
 
 Section ".■■) of the ^lanitoba Schools 
 Act. now in force, provides as follows ; 
 
 7."). "it shall be the duty of every 
 teacher: 
 
 (.'/) "To keep a visitors' book and make 
 an entry tlienun of every visit; to otier 
 tlu' said book lo all visitors, and to re- 
 (|uestthem to note tiiereiu any remark 
 which they may think proper. 
 
 (( ) "To allow at all times the trustees 
 and visitors to inspect the registers and 
 visitors book. 
 
 (I/) "To hold at the enA of every year, 
 at least one public examination." 
 
 Section SO of the same act is m the 
 follow in^ words : 
 
 SO. "The visitors in each school (lis- 
 trict may be : 
 
 ((() "The priest or cler^'yman. 
 
(nery 
 
 I'm "TIic moiiil>««rs <»l ilio rrovim-iul 
 l.Uis'inluture. 
 
 ic) "Tin? Jiid^'t's oftlic('ourt«)f<iiio()ii'« 
 iicMicti iiiiil ('(Miiity Court. 
 
 ('') ' I'lie iiK'iiil)Or8of tli»! Ht'ctioimr tlio 
 IJoanl. 
 
 (« ) "Tli« tnisfofs of Oiidi Hcliool." 
 
 Nn« , if tli(> lion. <j;oiif It'iiit'ii will only 
 tiiUrtlic IroiiliU; Iti sum up, Mn'yuill 
 tiiid that for oiir Cutliolic srliools, 1'.! 
 visitors nn^ Ciitlioliis, iiii<l ItS l'rott'stju>t> 
 wliilst for rroU'stiiiit st'liools, ."»,") ari> 
 ''••oU'stiint.s sii\il " CatliolicH. 
 
 So iiuicli lord.*' systLMii iind llic fiiir- 
 lu'ss (if tlio priiu'iiilo. I'lit now, as to 
 till.' manner ill whivli it lias l)iH!n carriod 
 out. 
 
 All the niomI)«'rs of this II(»tis(', as T 
 !iav(' shown are i.f o/Z/Vio srhool visitors. 
 
 1 wdl then ask : how often have the 
 Jion. uentlemen opimsite visited our 
 Hi'liools, in their eairerness, aeeordiu^ to 
 their stereotyped oratory, to jrrasp with 
 the educational problem? When did 
 the Hon. Attorney-! ieneral visit the 
 Catholic school of l'ortai;<' la I'rairie, or 
 the Hon. Minister of l'id)lic Works that 
 of Brandon? Yes, Mr. Speaker, our 
 schools are .secret. Secret, not for those 
 wh(» sendinjj their children there and 
 lieiu^ (•onse(iuently the most interested, 
 liave visited them oltentinu^s, and foll- 
 owed their iiro;:ress with anxiety; l)Ut 
 secret Atr those who thou;iht it more 
 r()iiv(Miieut to close w illinjily their eyes 
 und thu?;' fret! their conscience from the 
 recklessness of their statements. 
 
 I ('hallen<.'e my hon. friend to show 
 hefore the House one single instance o' 
 unwillin^Miess, whether on the part of 
 the Catiiolic Section or of any board of 
 Catl'.olic trustees, t(^ open their s<;huuls or 
 produce their books, vouchers, rej^isters 
 
 "ir accnunts, ii "ire ar.y <ine tMititled to 
 ntak(^ such a deuiaixl. 
 
 My h(tn. friend the Leader ofihe^ov- 
 enunent prides himwelf with beintj, with 
 «ine exce[ition, I bidieve, the senior mem- 
 ber of tliis House, 'rhelbin. Attorney- 
 (ieneralhuH also been a represeiitativo 
 of the people lur s(!verul parluiMieuts. 
 Uut, strangle to siy, I fail to tind in the 
 ri'Cdrds of tins Assendily that these 
 jieutlemen have ever attempted to throw 
 .some li^rht on this dark subject: Catiiolic 
 sclio(ds. Yet, the educatiomil iirant has 
 yearly come befori* them, and I find that 
 their sol»; remarks weri' as to its iiisiilli- 
 ciency. Yet, the reports of tlio super- 
 intendent of Catholic schools have yearly 
 been laid uih)u the table for our inveK- 
 tigation, and I see that the on'y action 
 they have taken in connettitui therewith 
 w as to concur in the receivinyoftlK^sauie. 
 
 1 l.cdieve, Sir, in this t)rincii)le: that 
 however hi^rh, however sacred the 
 interests which we intend to subsidise, 
 whetlKM' ediiiational or iitiierwise, it is 
 our solemn duty to see that the money 
 w hich is v<ited here out of the public 
 treasury be leLMtimalely employed. 
 This rule, as I understand it, should 
 admit of no possible exception. 
 
 IJut, on the other hand, when a body 
 constituted under an expre.ss provision 
 of tiie law as the Hoardof Fducation, has 
 shewn itself for twenty years faithful to 
 its trust,— when for twenty years it has 
 worked practically under the supervision 
 of this House. — when yearly it has sub- 
 mitted its work t<i us under th<! : hai)e 
 of tiie tw(i Siiperint(!ndants' repor's \<ith- 
 (jiit iiruvokiii^ anv investigati(m, any in- 
 (|uiry,any adverse criticism on our part, — 
 I say. Sir, that it is not liecominy; to us, 
 at tiiis late hour, to admit practically 
 that our eyes have been closed for 
 twenty vears to this educational (piestion, 
 
8 
 
 
 l! 
 
 niiilor tlio lliiiisy prctoiico that, our 
 Hcliools, wholly or in part, arc seoret. 
 
 — A more serious cliiir^'e, but not tlie nioHt 
 serioub, is in connection willi tiu^ in- 
 ellicioncy of Catholic schools. 
 
 True, we have heard the Hon. Attor- 
 nev-( ieneral dechuH! solemnlv that 
 ''the Catliolic Church iiad .shewn itself 
 utterly unwnrtiiy of the trust of tNlucatiou 
 which has been conlided to her."' Jhu, 
 layiu;^ aside tiie very thin authority of a 
 letter written by a uentleinan from !*!t. 
 Laurent, I fail to see how my fricnul has 
 [irt,^ jin Ids case. We have' nothintr be- 
 fore us on tills most important (pu'stion, 
 absolutely llo^hlll^^ — neither a refiM'ence 
 to tlie Catholic Superintendent's reports, 
 neither the inspc'tors' reports, not even 
 one single complaint iVom one solitai'V 
 Catholic ratepayer. 
 
 Now, let us take the curricnhnn. 
 
 The Tioard of l-'ducation, as we know. 
 is divided into two sections, Catholic and 
 I'roiestant, and each section has under 
 the Act, the ri^Iit to determine its own 
 curriculum. 
 
 The comparison T am about to make 
 is for the greater number of Catiiolic and 
 J^rotestsmt Schools, that is to say, for ele- 
 mentary schools, comprising the four 
 lirst standards. ( )f course, colle>;iate and 
 intermediate departments arc not ui- 
 c hided. 
 
 I find this to l)e the programme ap- 
 jiroved of: 
 
 I5y tho Prot'^stant 
 S(.'cti<)n. 
 
 r.y Iho Cntliolic 
 StX'tion. 
 
 Ry thi' rrotcstnnt 
 Section. 
 
 1. Ui'iuliu;;. 
 
 •>. Kpi'lliiii:. 
 
 ;t. Coillpositiou. 
 
 1. Griuiniiiir. 
 
 5. Aritloiict ic. 
 
 (!, Hook-Uccpiiiji. 
 
 7. Writ i Hi:. 
 
 S. (Ji'oirrapliv. 
 
 !l. Ilistorv. 
 
 10. llygu'iii'. 
 
 By t»io (^iitholic 
 S(';'ti()n. 
 
 1. Ki'.'ulini:. 
 
 '1. S|ii|liii;x. 
 
 ;!. ('(iiii|iiisit ion. 
 
 I. (iiaiiiiiiar. 
 
 5. Ariilmu'l ic. 
 
 (i. Mt>iiU-K('f|iiii<r. 
 
 7. W'riliiiii. 
 
 S. (icOLrriipllV. 
 
 !». History. 
 
 lU. I'SL'I'llI kiiow- 
 
 Iriluv. 
 
 11. >'oriUstV rt'ii^rjoiis. 11. :vroral.»<!>ml ro- 
 
 iiistniction lit-'ioiis instniction. 
 
 \2. Diportnii'iit or 
 
 IxH'oiniiiirMi'ss. 
 
 1.".. ^■o('ill iniLsic. 
 
 II. Drawl nir. 
 
 1."). Jtiiai lanj:iiat?('s. 
 
 The two pro<:rammcs are maiufestly 
 similar in the main, and I dare say that 
 in no particular is the Catholic pro- 
 irramine in ftuy way iid"(;rior. 
 
 If we wish to cotnpare the books used 
 by each section, we sliall come to the 
 same result. 
 
 Forreadinj; in Protestant schools, tlie 
 first, se<'ond, thini and fotirth readers, 
 together with the literature prescribed 
 for third class teachers' certilicates, cor- 
 respond for Catholic schools to the lirst, 
 second, third and foiu'th readers, together 
 with sehicted historical sui>jects and 
 latin; and .so in writiiiir, tiie interrupted 
 series of copy-books 1, L', ;'. and (> Uocd in 
 Protestant scliools is on a parallel with 
 the nuiuterrupted series of copy-books 1, 
 L', ;'>, 4. T) and (i used in Catholic scliools. 
 
 For writing, the copy-books are absolu- 
 tely identical, coujing from the very 
 same source. 
 
 For readinu', the English spellers and 
 readers are Sadlier's ])omiiuoii Catholic 
 Te.\t-]iooks which are surely excellent in 
 every respect. 
 
 The same comparison could be carried 
 through all the other branches, except 
 of course in coiniection wltli religious 
 instruction whiidi is surely dill'erent in 
 Catliolic schools, ihit, as is held in 
 England, and I will prove it later on, this 
 does not interfere with, and much less 
 does vitiate, the teaching of secular 
 branches. 
 
 Ihit, after all. Sir, I must confess that 
 this is oidy a curricidum. .Vnd a more 
 important (luestion is to asc»>rtaiu how 
 
'.) 
 
 ul vo- 
 u'tio". 
 rut or 
 
 iisic. 
 
 ifostly 
 ly that 
 r pro- 
 is used 
 to the 
 
 )ols, tl-.e 
 readers, 
 iscribed 
 tes, c'or- 
 Lhe lirst, 
 to'^ether 
 Ills and 
 lernipted 
 
 Used in 
 
 lei ^viUl 
 
 )Ooks 1, 
 
 •hools. 
 
 ubsolu- 
 he very 
 
 lers and 
 Catliolic 
 ■ellent in 
 
 e carried 
 except 
 religious 
 "I'erent in 
 held in 
 b on, tins 
 Inch less 
 secular 
 
 Ifess that 
 k1 a uioro 
 tain how 
 
 it has worked, and what resulls have 
 been obtanied thereunder. 
 
 1 could I'.ere refer to several testi- 
 monials of a most Uatlerinjj: cliarai'ier, ot 
 which our ("atiiolic sdiools have ix'cu 
 the object in the course ol' the last few 
 years, includinir diplomas and special 
 honors awarded on the orcasion of our 
 provincial or local exliiliitions, auil, 
 amongst others, that belli at ['(jrtage-la- 
 Prairie, in the very constituency of the 
 Hon. Attorney-Cieneral. 
 
 lint I woiiM rather (online myself to 
 u few remarks <in tiic inter-colouial 
 exhibition held in i'".ngland m issti. The 
 facts in connection with this iiave 
 already been laid before the i)ublic 
 through the eloquent pen of His (trace 
 Arciibisliop Taclie; but as they seem to 
 have been systematically ignored here, 
 and I having had an opiiortnnity of 
 taking couni/.ance of tiie same as a 
 "nieniber of the Board, I will say a few 
 words on tlie subject. 
 
 It was indeed with a feeling of reluct- 
 ance and (jnly after lum-li hesitaiu'y, that 
 the Catholic Section of tiie J5oard of 
 Kducation arcepted in ISS."), Sir < harU^s 
 Tnpper's unexpected invitation to send 
 an exhibit to the Colonial lv\hil)ition. 
 This was early in the fall. The schools 
 liad hardly begini a new term, and ot 
 course iiad not yet prepare.! such speci- 
 mens as coidd give a fair idea of their 
 general work. Moreover, the mo^t 
 advanced pupils, who had left before 
 vacation and did not intend to come 
 bark, had as we kmtw is custoinai'v, 
 carried away with them to their homes, 
 the very best of the school work. 
 
 The Catliolic section, however, LMtli- 
 ere(l in eight, of their schools such 
 e\'liibits a. Ihey could, out, of that which 
 was evidenily their ])lain every-(hiy 
 work, and forwarded them to I'lnirland ; 
 
 and the result was that a diploma of 
 merit and a medal of honor were 
 awarded to each of the eight sehouls, as 
 well as to their Superintendent. ■ 
 
 i>efoi'e this result was known. Sir 
 Charles gave evid.ence of the earnest 
 interest he took in the Catholic exhibit 
 b}' the follow ing letter address 'd to the 
 Superintemlent of Catholic schools: — 
 
 "Colonial and I iidian Kxhibition. ISSiJ, 
 Canadian Scctiun. 
 London i'!!;.!! .luly l'^^i>. 
 
 To T. A. ])i;umi:k, l^-:^ 
 
 M\ 1>i;\kmk: — 1 duly received your 
 letter of tlu^ ;ird inst. and thank you for 
 the iiuMuoraiidum w inch vou liave pre- 
 pared on h(dialfof your section of the 
 Manitoba Lducatioual Mxiuhits. 1 shall 
 lie pleased to rec(Mve a thousand copies 
 of the memorandum and to see that they 
 are carefully distril)ute I. The exhibit 
 whi(di you havi; taken such pains to 
 collect has already attracted considerable 
 attention, and I do not doubt it will add 
 to the success of the Doiuiuion at the 
 Exhibition. 
 
 I remain, yours faithfully. 
 
 (Signed) Cii \s. 'i'ccci;i:." 
 
 My hon. friends will re( (dlect t hat njion 
 the occasion referred to, the .Manitoiia 
 e\hil)it was uiuler the charg(' of Captain 
 William Clarke, a good Protestant, and ,i 
 gooil soldier, who lias bled tor his coun- 
 try, aihl who in de'ying the bullets on 
 the hattle-tield has learned to fear uotli- 
 iiiu'. noteven ('atholii- schduls. Here is 
 th(! letter lie addresses to Mr. Uernier 
 from London <ui .Inly L'7t h. Is^p. 
 
 1)i:m;Sik, — 1 can .>peak from exper- 
 ience w itii reference to the evcellence o! 
 your section, two of my daiight"i's hav- 
 ing been fbi- a longtime ^\ it lithe good 
 ."^isters of St. I'onifacc where the'rpro- 
 
 .Mr. I now SiiKilon ]'>> rim r. 
 
lu 
 
 ' !' 
 
 i t 
 
 i ' ' 
 
 l^cross was as satisfactory to nic, as it was i 
 
 pleasant to them. ' 
 
 I am, etc., ' 
 
 Wll.r.IAM Cl.AKKi:. 
 
 Tliese, Sir, are the sentiments of two 
 <:entlemen who were in a position to 
 jud^e, and wlio, hein>i i'-otestants, could 
 not be particularly hiassed in our 
 favor. 
 
 I will now read tliecoinnientpublished 
 m the Canadian < hi/ette of London on 
 Nove:nl)er ^tli, iSSi;, which is in the 
 fullowinj: words : 
 
 "Jt is fzenerally believed that of all 
 the sister-provinces, that of INFanitoba is 
 the least advanced towards civilization. 
 AVe alrea<ly know that in many respects 
 such is not the case; but if we consider 
 the excellent scholastic exhil)ition of that 
 l)r(.)vince, we see in what deu'ree that 
 impression is erroneous, especially in 
 the matter of education. 
 
 ''The collection contains samples of 
 books, exercises, scholastic nniterial, etc. 
 etc., coming from the Catholic schools as 
 well as from the Protestant schools of the 
 jjrovince. 
 
 "The excellence ofthe v.ork, and espe- 
 cially of the fieoyraphical charts, is 
 incoiitestible. This is the more pleasinfj: 
 il we consider the fact that many ex- 
 hibits arc^latcd from the year 1.SS4 and 
 the be;j;inning of the year 1SS5; it is 
 eviilent the exhibit is composed oftiio 
 ordinary duties of the schools in all 
 l)arts ofthe province, and not of work 
 ap(icially prepared :or the occasion. 
 
 "No pretention has been made to 
 eclipse the school exhibits of tlie otiier 
 piro\inces; but the collection tliat is 
 under our eyes denotes that in one of 
 the mf)st recently "or^'anized" provinces 
 of the Confederation, there exisis a 
 «i hool system, whii'h, althou;:h resjiect- 
 
 ing the faith and relifiious convictions of 
 the iiopnlation, offers to every one an 
 education capable oflittingtorthe highest 
 rank of the society, the child who is 
 placed under its care." 
 
 I do not know, of course, whether this 
 has any weight in the mi'ids of the lion, 
 gentlemen on the gover. iient side. But 
 it should lie conceded,! believe, that com- 
 ing from such a high and unprejudiced 
 source, this is ut least as good authority 
 as that solitary lethir from St. Laurent 
 upon which the Hon. Attorney-General 
 the other night, baseitall liis charges of 
 inetliciency against Catholic schools. 
 Such, then, was the character of the 
 exhibit, and sucdi is also the character of 
 the workwliich my lion, friends opposite 
 could inspect as ollicial visitors, if, over- 
 coming their repugnance, they only 
 chose to eiuer the wa!!s of our school 
 rooms ar.d see with tlieir own eyes. 
 
 Having produced what f believe to be 
 conclusive evidence ot the good work of 
 the CaMiolic section, lam now free to 
 admit that, owing to diverse circumstan- 
 ces, there are in the province certain 
 Catholic schools that are weak. I say 
 that this mu.st necessarily have been, 
 and mu.st necessarily be for some time 
 to come. Ina young ijrovince like this, 
 and with our limited resources and 
 sparse settlements, it cannot possik)ly ln^ 
 expected from tl;e administration of a 
 system so extensive and the success of 
 which is dependant upon so many con- 
 tingencies, that something or other shall 
 not prove to be somewiiat loose some- 
 where. 
 
 f can point out, Sir, to many instances 
 ofthe kind in the I'rotestant schools, al- 
 though the hon. gentlemen say nothing 
 of that sideof tlie iniestioii. 
 
 Are we to conclude from this that 
 I'rotestant schools are a failure? Deci- 
 
11 
 
 victions of 
 ry one an 
 :lielii!j;liest 
 [i\ who is 
 
 letlier this 
 of the lion, 
 side. r)nt 
 (, tiiiitcoin- 
 prejudiceil 
 I luithority 
 t. Laurent 
 ;y-General 
 cliarjzes of 
 ic schools. 
 ter of tlie 
 •huradcr of 
 ds opposite 
 rs, if, over- 
 they only 
 our school 
 1 eyes. 
 ^lieve to be 
 )d work of 
 )w free to 
 'ircunistun- 
 ice certain 
 !ak. I say 
 ave been, 
 some time 
 e like this, 
 purees and 
 possibly l)e 
 ration of a 
 success of 
 many con- 
 other shall 
 oose sonie- 
 
 y instances 
 schools, al- 
 ny nolhiuji 
 
 tills that 
 are? Deci- 
 
 dedly not, and 1 liopa that the stand 
 which I now take shall not be misunder- 
 stood. I do not intend for a niomcit 
 to reflect disparaginjj;ly upon Protostaiit 
 schools. I l)elieve that they are a credit 
 to our youu'j; pnnince, as well as to the 
 section of the board which has managed 
 them. 
 
 On the other hand, T wish to sliow 
 that if the <:eneral results have been 
 most satisfactory, they have not been so 
 however witiiont certain exceptions. 
 
 Takinj^the Trotestant Superintendent's 
 rci)ort for the year endint: January :»lst, 
 IMS."). 1 find that the inspectors appre- 
 ciated in the following manner some of 
 the schools. 
 
 Speaning of the school at Stuvjcon 
 Crti'k. Kev. Mr. Cowley says : 
 
 "I am sorry to report unfav(iral)ly of the 
 school. At my last inspection, I found it 
 extremely dirty and untidy. The lew 
 ohiklren present were cowering ro\ind 
 the stove. There was nothing of the 
 tidiness and cheerfulness and discipline 
 that mark a well managed st'hool; only 
 one slate pencil was to be found amongst 
 all the scholars, and the exandnation 
 showed that very little, if any, progress 
 iiad been made." 
 
 INIr. rampbell's report contains the 
 following : 
 
 " (jrasiiuir school is all but a complete 
 failure. 
 
 "(jnriKriiod shows poor results this 
 year. 
 
 "Dvuihis. The trustees have failed to 
 ke(;[) their school open since the summer 
 holidays. 
 
 "Jhihiiorul must have a new school- 
 hotise at once. The school has not yet 
 recovered from the disorganization 
 caused by the occniiancy f(jr two weeks 
 of an utterly incompetent man. Its re- 
 cord is a poor one in conseipience." 
 
 Mr. Inspector D. A. Stewart siiys : 
 
 " Cij]>rr>is. Found ten names on the roll 
 and three pujoils in attendance on the 
 day of my visit. 
 
 ''Ill ran. Twenty-one on the roll ; sev- 
 en in attendance. 
 
 " Mtu'ki itzir Number of names on roll 
 eighteen ; number present at date of 
 visit, five. 
 
 ''Sunirjhikc. On the roll were_ thirty- 
 lour names. Seven pupils were present. 
 
 "■Silrer t'iprimjs. Fout.d a comfortable 
 school-room, but no pupils were p e ent 
 
 ''Oak Creek. ]S^undjer of pupils p esent 
 four. 
 
 "JAUlfUm. Dec. 11th, I found the school 
 closed fur the winter. 
 
 "Dair^on. Closed. 
 
 "Louii^e. Closed. 
 
 "Trilwruc. Closed. 
 
 "Ldiidcshiiro. I visited Oct. 28th. No 
 piil»ils in attendance. On Jaiuuiry 10th, 
 [ found five pupils in attendance and 
 forty names on the roll." 
 
 In the report for the year ending Jan- 
 uary olst 1S80, I read the following 
 from Rev. I\lr. Jackson : 
 
 "Balmoral is very backward. 
 
 "]Vind/ior is very jxtorly attended and 
 not highly efiicient. 
 
 "Grconroad is very backward." 
 
 From Rev. Mr. Fortin: 
 
 "St. i''m/',<j.— The standing of the pupil 
 is low. 
 
 "Majjhtim, The standing is low." 
 
 The reports for the two years ending 
 res]je.tivelv January IHst 1887 and Jan- 
 uary olst LS,S8, are in a very condenseil 
 form, and do not allow for that reason of 
 the same critical examination ; but they 
 also indicate numerous and serious 
 shortages. Of the Mennonite S(;hools 
 amongst others (and they are surelv not 
 Catholic schools) the first of the two 
 
ll 
 
 reports sayr, tiiat "tlicy arr siiHiciently 
 (lisroura;:iii'jr to tlic true frii'iuls of tlie 
 .Mciiiioiiitc i)i'oi)le" that "the tcacliers 
 ar(^ illitcralc," and tliat •'llic work in the 
 .seliool-rooiii i.s useless or nearly so." 
 
 T'k! same report also contains the 
 followin;^ remarks (»l a rather sarcastic 
 nature, in connection with teaclier's 
 examinations. 
 
 iJespectin^f dicldlnni for .vicoz/J c/'(x.s 
 Mr. S(jmersct writes : 
 
 "Eiuliteeii wonis weres^iviMi for spell- 
 ing, notaswoi'ils are ordinarily pronoun- 
 (■(m1 in onr r-xercises of this kind, hut 
 in sentences lor the laipils to write, 
 'fne words su;:ar, pleasant, trtdy. Wed- 
 ne&'ilay, Feliruary, ac''oniniodation, in- 
 terestinir, ninety, extremely, committee, 
 prec(idin<j and ^'rammat.ica'ly, occurred 
 casually in t hes(; sentences, and t' e num- 
 ber of misj)elk'd words found in the 
 l)npils' pa])ers was jiri)l'( ss, il/i/ viKiccoidit- 
 (ihli ill the triirln r Imt i.itriiihhj sik/i/i ,<tl rf 
 III till' t xmiiiiii /'." 
 
 Now, Sir, I will rejieat it. This is no 
 evidence tiiat our I'rotestant. schools are 
 a failuie. Yet. it is evidenct! that, like 
 our Catholic schools, they iiave heen 
 soiuowliat hampered hy the excep- 
 tional diliiculties luider whicii this yonn;.r 
 province is struL'Lriinu'. and that the 
 insuliiciency of our pecuniary re.sonrces, 
 the s]»arsely scuttled nature of our 
 districts, to)^u'tii<!r with the fact that this 
 is not yet a self-support,in>; province in 
 matter of teachers, have proven t,) lie as 
 many ol)stacles in the way of tludr 
 attaininix a more; satisfactory result 
 tlu'ouirliont. 
 
 J>efore (dosinij.' my remai'ks njion this 
 ])oint, as I have liappened to spiMk ot 
 teachers' exam;nati(<us, 1 am sure this 
 House will hear witli pleasure of a rather 
 amusiny: incident which occurred no 
 . loDtier ai^o tiian last year in the North 
 
 West Territories. While perhaps not 
 directly connected with the (piestion at 
 issue, it has nevertheless some ljearin>j; 
 upon it, at least i>y analoLiy. 
 
 It was found in the Territories last 
 ye.'ir, that the standard of the teachers' 
 exannuations was alto;.a'ther too low, 
 and that it sliould he l)rou;j:ht to a much 
 hi<.dier level. 1 may .say, hy the way, 
 that 1 was informed at the time that the 
 real object r)f this contenii)lated cluuiiie 
 wa.stoshnt out certain Catholic teachers 
 w ho happened to ludon^'^ to some relig- 
 ions oivUm'. r>e that as it may, the (duui<j;e 
 w as etl'ected. Shakespeare, for one, was 
 introduceil amon^'st the new exandna- 
 tion subjects, and the stamlard undouht. 
 edly readied a hi|^di, a vory iiij,'h Unel 
 throuLrhout. 
 
 Now, what was the result? It was 
 this. Sir: that at the follow inji' exanuna- 
 tions, in the w hole Northwest Territories, 
 six teachers only could t^radnate in class 
 one, and the si.x teachers were six nuns 
 otthe Order of the Sisters of Charity. 
 
 As nu^dit have heen expet'led, it was 
 •soon found out that the new proLM'amme 
 did not "o/'/,', and ;t was shortly aitcir 
 wisely reduced to its former standard. 
 
 — Ill-judued as I hav(^ shown thi'm to 
 have been in so many other respects, it 
 would seem that the members «)f the 
 Catholic section of the; l)oard of educa- 
 tion could have expecte<l to lie spared at 
 least in their honest} and tlieir honor. 
 Hut such was not to lie the case. 
 
 As I have had occasion to say already, 
 the Catholic sei'tion counts amon>' its 
 Uiemlters <.'entlemen whose names must 
 appear foremost in the history of this 
 province,"!j;entlemen who have siL'nalled 
 themselves by their nntirin<.' efforts not 
 only in t'onnection w ith our puldic schools 
 I'Ut also witii our University work, — not 
 
\:\ 
 
 Qv]mpH not 
 
 (|IK'Sti()Il lit 
 
 1110 boariujx 
 
 itorifs last, 
 i^ teachers' 
 
 T too low, 
 
 to ii iiiiich 
 .' the way, 
 lie that the 
 • hI eiuintie 
 he teachers 
 some reliji- 
 tlu! chan;_H' 
 »r one, was 
 
 exaiiiiiia- 
 (1 iiiidoiilit. 
 
 hi;^'h level 
 
 '.' It was 
 : exaiiiiiui- 
 Territories, 
 ite ill class 
 e six iimis 
 "harity. 
 ed, it was 
 
 •OLMMlllIlie 
 
 rlly ulU'r 
 aiuianl. 
 
 them to 
 'spects, it 
 
 •s of the 
 i)f' ediica- 
 
 ^tared at 
 Mr huiior. 
 
 1 1 ready, 
 iiiioii<- its 
 lies must 
 y of this 
 siiriialled 
 llorts Dot 
 ic schools 
 
 rk, — ^iiot 
 
 only with ciir elementary schools as we 
 now understand them, bat also with those 
 schools of Christian truth dating as far 
 hack as th(! forties and fifties, and the 
 estaidisiiment of wliiidi was elfected 
 under cinuiiistances surely very ditlcr- 
 ent iVitiu the luxury and comfort w ith 
 u liich we are now eii\ roiied. These 
 meii, 1 repeat it, have Ikhmi cluuved witli 
 lieii)}^' notliin«j; less than vul;j:ar eiu- 
 bez/lers. 
 
 1 reiM'et tiiat in tlie coiir.--e of his speech 
 ol several hours, ihe lion. Minister ol 
 I'nbiic Works'^' has not chosen lit yester- 
 day to explode in our [iresence tiiat 
 b<»mlislndl: the ( 'alholic Reserve I'uiid. 
 
 Tiie iitjii. ^a'P.tleman who, the other 
 (lay, has repudiated tlie iSraiulon .Sun as 
 his orjran, cannot deny however that it 
 nsnally widl reliecls his own views, and 
 here is what w(; lliid in an issue of that 
 weekly published last summer. 
 
 It is iieaded 
 
 A srAUi'i.iNo iiis(()Vi;uv 
 
 and proceeds thus . — 
 
 "()ur readers will rememlier that a 
 slujrt lime sii.'e, w (! calieil attention to 
 the i^rievances ol the (."atholic .Section of 
 the Hoard of Kducation. >Since then a 
 start liiii: discovery has l)een made. The 
 government satisneil themselves that 
 the Cattudic Section had in their bands 
 a consideraldi' sum of money tiiat had 
 not l)(ieu applied to the purposes fur 
 wlii(di it was voted and intended. As 
 nii^lit liave been i^xpeited, tiiere was 
 consi^'erable reluctance ])efore a decision 
 was arrived at to ilisirorize. This decision 
 was donl'tk-ss hasteiu>d hy tlie stand 
 taken by the *jovernmeul. The latter 
 declined tc recoL'iHze anv demand made 
 by the Catholic Se^ t'on unlil tlie matter 
 wasailjusled. Wheuthe}' became aw are 
 bevond a doubt that the source nf 
 
 supi)|y would be cut oir till a satisfactory 
 adjustir.ent was Icid, they deci led to 
 c(imi)ly with tlu> demands oftlie ;j:overn- 
 ment. The ri'sult was that tiie (Govern- 
 ment received nearly .Si4,(liMi.(io in cash 
 from tiie ("atholic Section of the ISoanl 
 Tlie knowledire tiiat our provincial 
 linances have thus been improved will 
 be a very ajireeaitle surprise t<j all our 
 citizens." 
 
 To make this still plainer, I wi II also 
 ijuiite in tlie last issue ot tlu; same news- 
 liaper, from a pretty lou;^ artiide havinii 
 my name as a heading', and'whieli I 
 must credit with tins at least, that if it is 
 asiPiind rule for a writer to coidine 
 himself closely to his siibji^'t, never was 
 the rule bettcn- observed than in tiiis 
 case. 
 
 It is there said amou;_'st other things : 
 "llespite Mr. rieiiiU!r;iast's exhibition 
 of valor and his i»rofuse demonstration, 
 the public will, in the absence of evidence 
 to the opposite, continue to believe: that 
 the Catiiolic section reciiivel public 
 moneys lor a particular i)nr))ose, that 
 there was a failure to apjtlv tlietii as 
 they should hav(; done, that th»;se mon- 
 eys were retained to lie applied as iiiiLcbt 
 be thou>rht proper, ami that the jrovern- 
 ment reijuired and iirocured a return of 
 someihiii;_' like Sb'i.iiiMi inider the nn- 
 nsual circumstances rciied. Some will 
 tloul)tless be iiudined to phue tiiese facts 
 alonjiside the iimtention ofthe supporters 
 of Se}iarate Schools tiiat t he maintenance 
 oftlie latter is a matter of conscience." 
 
 Leavin;.' asiih; the sneer contained in 
 the last three lines, I wish to call tlx; 
 attention of the House to those three 
 ailej^'ations : that the Catholic Section 
 received nionevsiora particular j)urpose, 
 that they failed to ajiplv them as they 
 should have done, and t hat t ley retained 
 
 •Jinn. Mr. Smart. 
 
1 1 
 
 tliciii lo nitplN- tliCiii as tlit\\' iiii;^!'! think 
 
 'I"(> lif'^'in witli. is licit tliis ;i sti'ai;^l.t 
 cliar.c ul cihlic'/li nn'iil '.' 
 
 lint I will liy aiiil slmu : 
 
 I. I'oi w iiat j)iir]iusi's tit'.se iiioiicys 
 were voN-il aii<l rt- -cix el ; 
 
 :.'. What use was made, ainl was lu- 
 1','ii(h'(J to he iiiaU', (il these uiiUK'ys ; 
 
 ','>. Ill what sense, aiiil lor w hoiii, tho 
 <liseoveiy aliiii|e>l |i> iniisl indeed !iavc 
 lieeii start IIiil:. 
 
 Now tlie lai'ls are sinnily these: 
 
 III t he course ol' last siiiinner, the ("atli- 
 olic Section iiad a^'ciininlati'd out of 
 yearly saviiiLis dalin;/ IVoiii as far 
 hack as JNSd, a lieserxe !'niid ol' SI 1 ,()U(i, 
 which, with interest, amounted to soiik;- 
 tliinu like >!;;.(i(i(i. That amount was 
 lyiiiL' in the Imperial Uank. The i^overn- 
 meiit orderei! the ('atholic S-^ectioii to 
 nay t his o\ t-r to t he I'rovincial Tre.isnrer, 
 w hich was done. So that, at all events, 
 il ive only take tin- practical resnils. the 
 case may he summed ii]) liy sayiiij.' : t hat 
 in ISSd the (atholic Section he^jaii to 
 economize on its yearly revenue, that in 
 ISS'.t the Miiii total of this ei-oiiomy was 
 lyiiiji' in a chartered I'.ank, and that, it 
 was paid overto the government at their 
 reipiest. A mosj lamental le slate of 
 iiir.iirs indeeil 1 
 
 But Tor what purposes are sui'h mon- 
 eys voteil yearly hy the lloiiseV 
 
 I say fortlu* purposes mentioned in the 
 statute. 
 
 Section.") of our School Act of ]s7:] — 
 and the law in this respiect has stoo I tic 
 same as late as last year — savs ; 
 
 T). ()nt ol' the sums so apportioned 
 to eaidi Section . . . ; I'ro- 
 vided. however, that each Sect ion 
 ol'the Board may reserve t'oi- \]]\- 
 lorseen expenses or ^(Mieral 
 school nur|ioses a sum not e\- 
 ceediicj ten per ceniot its sliare 
 ol'the Liraiit. 
 
 'I'his is then the authority, and t\>i 
 very tiest authoritv, under \vlii(di the 
 h'eserve l''und u as ercated, and lam not 
 resjjonsihle if the lion, gentlemen oppo- 
 site have ipiKired tliis provision which 
 has sh)0(l for lilt.'eii years on our statute 
 hooks. 
 
 But what wastheolije't of this Reserve 
 yiiiid? 
 
 Both Sections of the Board have (ex- 
 perienced from away lia"k, that two or 
 three and soinetimes four and live 
 months would lapse alter tl;eschoo| year 
 was <iver. hefore the ;:overninent ;jrant 
 would he paiil o\er to them. The hulk 
 ol the expenses of th(e halt-year would 
 llii'ii remain nusatislied, the teachers 
 whose salaries remained uiii)aid would 
 refuse to enter into a new au'^reement, 
 aiiil the 'general result was of course 
 most detriiner.tal to the cause of educa- 
 tion. ]■'{)]• that HMson the Catholic Sec- 
 tion — and the i'mlesianl St>cti(ui as 
 W(dl — tIioui;lit tiiat it would he iiutst 
 desirahle to accumulate hy ^IcLirei's a 
 Reserve l'\ind. out of w lii' h the most 
 pressinu' demands could he ini't, and 
 which, once estahlished. would he vr- 
 newcd yearly when the .government 
 ixrant was paid over. 
 
 Such was the action and such were the 
 motives of the Catholic Section, and there 
 lies the scandal. 
 
 As 1 hav(! said, this R(\serve iMinddid 
 not aeipiire its ultimate proj)ortious all 
 at once, hut was the work of more; than 
 s(n'en years' steady savin-s. Neither 
 was it all the time on the increase. 
 
 Ill ISSd it auiounled to .'^il.SOT. 
 
 1«S1 " .-■0..-.IIS. 
 
 l'*^^ '■ .j;!,!;!),). 
 
 18s:j " ,^.j,,s. 
 
 1«84 " .s(i,i::]. 
 
 18'^> " .S7,.!7(;. 
 
 IfWti " Sil.lOII. 
 
 issv " .■^i:;..;_'s. 
 
.ukI t' <^ 
 
 llicll tlKl 
 
 I am not 
 
 111 w 'lirli 
 ir staliile 
 
 ~ llcscrvo 
 
 liavo (>\- 
 it tuo or 
 ami !ivo 
 liiinl vcar 
 'lit praiit 
 'I'lic hnlU 
 ■ar wuiild 
 learlHTS 
 lid would 
 _'reeiui.Mit, 
 )f cdiirf^e 
 of cdiica- 
 liolii' Sc'c- 
 >itiun as 
 Ik' niosti 
 t'.:ri'('s a 
 llic most 
 im't, and 
 (1 l.i' re- 
 vcnimcnt 
 
 were tin* 
 and t;:i.Te 
 
 "iind did 
 ilioiis all 
 iiorc than 
 NcMtiier 
 
 use. 
 .sl.SdT. 
 
 .>■.')..")' IS. 
 ..fil.TJS. 
 
 .sii.i.a, 
 
 Sll.lilll. 
 
 •■^1 :;.:;•>. 
 
 i 
 
 I'.ut 1 Iind, Sir; that tin- Trotcstant Si'c- 
 tion also had a l{<>*^rv<' l-'iind, alt honjii 
 we liavt' iicard nothing: of th<' scandal 
 in this case: — a lit'servi' I'lind which 
 has been in I'xisttMice, if not lor <'i,i:lit 
 years, at I(nist for li\ai yours, and the 
 principle stands the sumc ; — a Jtcservc 
 Fund which at one tinic amonnfcd to 
 S'.'Ji:'. 1.-11, and that is pretty close to 
 $l].4(i:;.;',() I should thinU. 
 
 Now Sii", who would Ixdieve it, in tiiis 
 House where we heai' ot "secret schools" 
 and ol ''start liuLT disco\ eries." 
 
 Mver since l.s71. the ro[,orts of the two 
 Sni)eri lit eudriits of I'-dncation have yearly 
 heen laid ii|ion the talile of I he House, 
 .show in;j- in full letters and li<inr-.!S when 
 tlie two lleserve Funds were created anil 
 liow tln'V iirospered, and year after \ear 
 these rejiorls lia-.e t)e<'n ado})ted hy us 
 and oi-ilered t'» i>e pi'iiileii amoii.st our 
 •sessional fiapers. 
 
 If, in spite of all this, the lion. 'j:eutle- 
 men opi)osite were "startle 1" at tiiat 
 so-called "discovery," wo must neces- 
 sarily infer that up to this da\' tlujy 
 have stoo 1 in i'^norance oi the statute 
 law w llicll they now proclaim so per- 
 nicious ; and t he [iiihiic w ill nndouhtedly 
 lie soiiiewhat piiz/.led to couple their 
 ^H'eat an.\iet\- in matters of education, 
 with tiie neulect which they have shewn 
 for nearly L'o years in adoptin^j- and 
 l)rintiiiu e'iu'.-atiiuial r» ports wtiicli they 
 dill not even taki' the troulde to peruse. 
 
 I then contend. Sir. th.al thci'e was 
 statutcjrv authority tor (a'eatint: a iJe.serve 
 l-'und.that it was iutenderl only for law- 
 ful iiurposes, that it was used (»ulv tor 
 law fill jiurposes, an 1 thai all (he circum- 
 stances ill connect ion tiierewith were 
 yearly niaile puldic in i he liroadest sense 
 of tlu' word. 
 
 The .S!;'>,0(iO lia\e now hecui h lu led 
 
 o\ cr ro t l.c! ;.'o\ eriiiiiciil, w hose aul lioril v 
 in the matter I surely ijiiesiion. 
 
 However, I sin ■t-rely hopi'that 'Wt lUy 
 years hence, if they are yet in iH>w('r, 
 the L'entleinen oc(upyinir tlu* 'I'reastu'y 
 henclies will renew t hisscandal.liy show- 
 iu'.: tnat their steady .savintj;.^ shall have 
 then similarly resultcid in a siihstantinl 
 deposit lyiu'j in some chartered llank to 
 t lu' credit ot the provin c. 
 
 — Iwill now deal with the fourth aixl 
 last (diar^e — or 1 siiould p(Mdiap> rather 
 call it an oi'iection--as it is not exactly 
 disparauin;: to <,atliolics, hut rather 
 a:;ainst the educational s\slein now in 
 force. 
 
 We are told that < 'atholic Schools have 
 Ix.'eii and are still in recmpt of a lariier 
 portion of puldic monies than I'rotestant 
 schools; and alter haviii;^ iiuoled .some 
 liaures mi the suhjei't at the .NUdita han- 
 ipiel, till' Hon. AFiiiister ot I'lihlic Works 
 is I'Cjior ed ml lie Hr'iiiihiii Sim as haviic^- 
 Slimmed up his remarks hy sayin<z: 
 "Tins means that tne l'i-ot,estaiits olthis 
 country iiave heei directly taxed to edu- 
 cate the children of Catholics " 
 
 Well, let us .^ee how the law operat<'s. 
 
 ( till' .-5 hools derixc their suppm't from 
 two Sources: school taxes, and the leuis- 
 lalive '.^rant. 
 
 .\stotli»; lirst, clause IKt of the .Maiii- 
 toha Schools Act, says: "in no case shall 
 a I'roti'Staiit ratepayer he compelled to 
 
 ]»;iy for a < 'at ho lie Sc I I, nor a ( 'atholic 
 
 rat(.'i)ayer tor a I'roteslan' school." And 
 this, I suppose, disposes of I he argument 
 as t'ar as taxation is coacenie 1. 
 
 As for the ajiljortionmeiii ol the L:rau!, 
 section S;") of the same Ac| provides iiow 
 it i.S <loiie. the hasis heiii^ the sciiool 
 census. 
 
 The law j^rovides tlait in each sidiool 
 district, whether Tat holic or l'roiest;iiil. 
 
1(5 
 
 (11 
 
 II ycnirly tonsils sIkiII lie t;ik(Mi of all the At tlio Siinio time, tlioro arc siirc^lv 
 rliiJdrcM <»t' school u'^t' liviri;_' witliiii its matters so I'ioar, that ovtMi in lyciii;^ 
 
 limits 
 
 iviii'/ I lit' lull naiiu's and ONai't. 
 
 allowcil to criticizt' tiicm, one is vft 
 
 iii:(' i>i t'ach I'liii 
 
 aiKi 
 
 iiidifatiiiLr tl.ost' lorhiddcii liv ('(1111111011 seiiHO to t-arrv hi.s 
 
 \\ lio atllMld SCI I ml :iiid t hose U ho do lint. 
 
 IIIC 
 
 1 
 
 I'Vond certain (fXtreine limits. 
 
 Thi 
 
 s fcn.sns has hirthi'r 
 
 to 1 
 
 le si'Miei 
 
 I I 
 
 )V 
 
 say, It)!' my part, that it is ahsiird to 
 
 tht liairmai! and secri'tary ol'tlit! lioard call this system an iiii(iiiity. If tin; 
 of 'I'riistees, and sworn ti> liefore ajiistice Catholic poiJiilalion has one linndri'd 
 ol the jjcace as to its lon-e'tness. 
 
 children oi" school a.'c an<l the rrotestant 
 
 Alter t lie t wo siiperiii 
 
 tend 
 
 (■111 
 
 res[)ec't i vely recciN c 
 
 liese local census 
 
 have popnlatitni two hundreil, 
 and i'|nital»le (hat tin 
 
 IS it not iiist 
 
 lirst 
 
 ShlMlliI 
 
 h'om the si 
 
 >! dis'rii'ts under their receivt! oiie-Lhii'i 
 
 aiK 
 
 1 tl 
 
 le second two- 
 
 control, they hand over the same to the 
 Provincial Se. relary wiiosn duty it is, 
 after haviicj. satlslied Ininstdf tliat 
 evtM'ythiiiL;' is true .md correct, to make 
 a >ri*neral addit'tm oi all the names, 
 thereliy estal>lishin;j: tlu. ;:tMu-ral school 
 censiu of tlie two jiopnlat ions of the 
 Province : ( 'at liolic and I'mtestant. 
 
 Snrcdy, all tins oilers as liuie njom lt)r 
 fraud :is possihie. 
 
 The apportionment is tiiini made 
 lietween tin' I wo Sections of the Pxtard of 
 P^,(hii'ation mion tliat 1»asis,tliat is to say, 
 in proiiortion to tht^ relative number of 
 Catholic and Trotestaiit children ot 
 S( hool auc in the [jrovince. 
 
 It is upon this iiasis fliat. this year, 
 the Protestant Section receive(| .'i^US,!!!)!) 
 antlthe Catholic Section Sl'L'.OiK). 
 
 Now, we must not miv up matters. and 
 •rreat care should l)i> taken iiere to avoid 
 anv possible confusion. Wiiat disposition 
 ea'h Sectittn may make later on t)f its 
 portion of the LM'ant, will come alter- 
 vvards and matters not for the moment. 
 AVe have only to consider at present the 
 division of the ;j:iaiit between C.itholii's 
 on tin' o'le hand and i'rot'stants on tlie 
 otiier, upon tlu; basis meiiLioned. 
 
 Is tiiis an o'itra:j.e. Sir ? 
 
 I 111 ist, re 'oj-ir/.e that the Hon. Minis- 
 ter of Public Works is ptM'fectly free to 
 find this a proi»er or an improjier liariis. 
 
 tiiinlsof the 
 
 :ener,ii ui'aiit 
 
 I; 
 
 noranco 
 
 or want of training slioiild here be 
 considered as u disease', and education 
 as a remcily ; and it is manifest that the 
 amount of education to be imparted 
 ibroir/h the public i:rant. should lie in 
 ijroportion with the disease as I'cpre- 
 sented by tlu^ immbt'r of ciiillren of 
 school a.L^e. 
 
 I may say. Sir, that allhou'.rh this is a 
 L'ood basis, yet, tlieor((ticalIy speaking' at 
 least, it is perhaps not the vei-y best in 
 my opinion. A better one still would 
 be tlu! school enrolment of the two 
 populations, which would mean the 
 takiiiL!; as a basis, not exactly of the 
 whole pt)pnlation of school ai:e, but only 
 of those actually attending' si-hool. And 
 a.^till oetter one it seems to me, would 
 Ix; the Lieneral attendance in tlie schools 
 of each Section. I said tin oritic'dhi 
 siiKik'nn/, for altnou^hthe l)asis would be 
 chan^'ed, yet 1 have satisfied myselfthat. 
 the ijroportion would remain unaltered 
 and the result \vt)nld be the same for 
 each Section as it is now. 
 
 Whatever may be of this, the ;ientle- 
 iiHMi opjjosite have the choice betw een 
 Liu? tliree or four systems of apportion- 
 ment. Iftlie present one is w•ron,L^ 't 
 them clian>ie it. Put I really tail to see 
 in what resi)ect this tpiestion is essen- 
 tially connecteil with the principle of 
 
 ■ 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
aro Kiircilv 
 1 in l^ciiijj; 
 )iu> is yet 
 » carry his 
 It' limits. 
 is iil)siir(l to 
 ty. If tli(! 
 w imiuiri'il 
 ,' ri-dtcstant 
 it not jllht 
 rst sIk'uM 
 
 SC'Olul two- 
 I;:iioraiiro 
 1 1 It'll' !)C 
 1 ('(liication 
 li^sl I hut LI 10 
 o iiiii»ai'tt'il 
 lioiild li(.' in 
 ' as rt'prc- 
 cliiMri'ii iA' 
 
 v/A) tills is a 
 spealviii;: at 
 ■ry host ill 
 .still would 
 tin- two 
 iiK'a;i tlio 
 :iy of the 
 (', hut only 
 
 lIXil. .\ll(l 
 
 me, would 
 ho S('ho(ds 
 /(( Dfi lic'i Ihi 
 s would he 
 iiiysoll'that 
 unaltorod 
 ! same fur 
 
 ho ^cntlo- 
 
 I'o hotwoou 
 
 apportion- 
 
 wrouL'. i^t 
 
 tail to see 
 
 is essen- 
 
 [iiu'iplo of 
 
 V 
 
 separiito scliools ; iu)r why, Itecauso a 
 twijx Hhoi'ld not a[)iioar perfectly verdiint 
 to the eyes of luy hon. friends, we should 
 put tiie iixe to the very root of the tree- 
 Having' shown, 1 helitivo, that the 
 ])rinciple of the upporliouiuont of the 
 grunt is u just one, and tliut the CutlKilic 
 section has only received that to which 
 it was entitled, J will n(»\v follow tho 
 Hon. Ministor of ruhlic Works and show 
 tho roasonsof certain c(unparisoiis which 
 iio has made. 
 
 Tho hoii. ).'ontloinun lui.s attempted to 
 prove that (atholic schoids, considered 
 not as a whole hut individually, have 
 received more m(mey than Protestant 
 scho ; ;. lie has ^'ivon us elulxtruto 
 statistics, and whilst not u<j:roein«j: witii 
 the use he has made of them. I must 
 jrive him credit for the serious attention 
 ho has undoiilitciUy given the matter. 
 
 Rut it is evident that tho hou. gentlo- 
 man has confused tho apportionment (»f 
 the grant hetween the two Sections, and 
 tho dfstrihution whiidi each Section 
 makes of its own money Vietweon the 
 particular schools under its control. 
 
 AVhatever result my hon. friend may 
 arrive at as to the granting' of certain 
 aujn.' to certain schools hy one particular 
 Section, it is clear that those particular 
 grants can only come from that portion 
 of the general grant allotted to that 
 Section; and if tho first apportionment 
 was fair a.<< I have shown it to he. then 
 one Catholic school may ]jerhaps com- 
 plain as against another Catliolic school, 
 but surely Catholics liave no reason to 
 <^omplain of rrotestants. nor TVotostants 
 ofCath' ''S. The first oper.ition, whicii 
 is the .qiportionment, und(M!l)tedly ini- 
 plies a joint interest both of Catholic and 
 IVotcstant ; hut the second operation, 
 thatof dustrihutiou, can (Hi]y give cause 
 
 to internal coulentions between thci 
 schools of the one Section. 
 
 Aiutther error into which tliu lion. 
 gentU'iiian has fallen and tho cons«v 
 (pience of which hi! d(te,s not seem to 
 realize, lies in tho fact that he has not 
 compared Catholic schools generally 
 with Protestant schools generally, hut 
 oiiiy ('atholic elementary schools with 
 Protestant element iry schools. What, 
 then, if the result is reversed, in com- 
 parinir Catholic and I'rotestant scliools 
 other than elemcntar', ? 
 
 1 am free to admit that in many 
 instances, certain Catholic elemeutarv 
 schools have received larger sums than 
 Protestant olomoutary schools; hut they 
 have received this, not from the L'overn- 
 iiHiit, hut out of that }M>rtion of tho grant . 
 first alloited to their particular Section ; 
 not from the piihlic subsidy, but out of 
 that portion of tho subsidy which had 
 first hocoiuo hy just apportionment, the 
 Catliolic school fund. 
 
 This is easily explained. 
 
 Each section has, under the statiUe, 
 power to manage its own schoids, to fiv 
 the curriculum, and to determine the 
 different grades or standards of teaching. 
 Tho two Sections liavi; evidently not 
 pursued tlie very same c(»urso in this 
 respect: vetlxtth have exercised wiiat 
 was uiideniahly their right and priv- 
 ilege.* 
 
 The Protestant Si'i-t ion liad certainly a 
 right t<t '_'o more ovtensively into hi'_'lior 
 education. Whether this was proper <tr 
 not, it is not our province to evamine ; 
 they had the riLiht to do so. They c<tiild 
 create inteniiodia^e and collegiate 
 departments, and devote to tlHMii one- 
 half, oiuvtenth, one-twentieth Of their 
 grant, just astheysau lit. < hi the other 
 hand, the (atliolic Section had also a 
 right to use their o\\ ii .ji^crction ; and for 
 
is 
 
 :i! 
 
 :ii' 
 w 
 
 f 
 
 <riverH reuhoiiH loin' nf wliicli is tlml tlic 
 r'atliolic popiiliilion lias dllMir nicaiiH of 
 pnivi.liiiLr l'<>r its collfv'iiito Mtiiilit's), tlic 
 ("at Imlic Sci'tion did iKit cIidusc^ uiidtT tlic 
 (•irciiiiistaiiccs tn ;^'ito any ('(tiisidrraliN' 
 ♦'Xlent into iii;jlior fdiu'alion. It innst 
 tinMilit! cvid«'iit that wliat was sparci! in 
 tliJH maniuT liy thf Catlioiic Section out 
 ofcolU'^iate di'partincnts, wont to Ciitli- 
 olic elcMKMitary sclmols, tin' u'lant to 
 wliicli was inctrvasi'd iiv so ii.ncli. I'>nt 
 liow fonld this lie caiicil rrotcslant 
 money '.' 
 
 l-'unhtT. 'I' hen' arc certain expenses in 
 fonncrtion witii the ordinary niana)j:e- 
 nicnt nl' schools, which havt; riii\ much 
 hiylitr lor the Protestant than for t ho 
 Catholic Sc'ctioii. I will take as- an 
 instance tiie inatter oi insju'ctions. lor 
 one 'cason (tr another, the Catholic 
 Section have lioon enahled to do their 
 inspections at a comparatively very low 
 cost. The (Umsity oft iie I'ronch settle- 
 ments, and the disinterostoilnoss of our 
 parish ])ri(\sts, have contrihntod nniter- 
 ially towards attainiiiL' this restdt. 
 
 1 lind that the salaries paid to their 
 
 inspectors by eacli Section tor seven 
 
 years, have heen as I'oljous: — 
 
 rrolcsliuit si'iMioii. (.'atlinlicscction . 
 
 is^2 .-^l.l^ri.iK) >ll7.."i(i 
 
 ISS.S ,Sl.S(i:; (III S|s.").ii() 
 
 ISSI S.;,lL'l).(H» .Sl'.HI.IHI 
 
 is,s.") s:{.l7.').iii) SI :/,.;) 
 
 IKsi; .■vi.nt.'i.dii si(;."i.iK) 
 
 1S,S7 ,'<.'),iiS-_'.iH) s:i(iii(io 
 
 ISSS .>'i..">7(I.IHI .->>\SI(.(lll 
 
 Here, atrain, this savinsj: on ins|)ecti(ins 
 w(!nt clearly to increase the <_frant 1o 
 Catholic elementary schools. J'>nt, iiere 
 ai;ain, the money was only transferred 
 from one hranch of the Cathol'c Section 
 to another hrancli of the Catholic Section 
 and can in no way be considered as 
 taken out of the amount leu'itimately due 
 to Protestants. ^The preference ;_Mven In- 
 one Section to one of its i)ranches over 
 all its other liranches. can in no wav 
 
 allect the other Section, neither for ^'oo.l 
 or evil. In the same was , the Province 
 of Manitol>a may use her jnr r ifiihi all- 
 owance for railways, ai;ricidtnre, or any 
 other i)nrp()se ; hut that surely docs not 
 allect the //< (• cd/'iln allow aiice of ( Mitario 
 or <^>ncl)ec. 
 
 Anotlu'r considi'ration of liie very 
 hi;.'host importance, is that Catholie 
 schools, as a rule, ha\(' a much lar^'or 
 enrolment, and a lar;;er avora;;e attend- 
 ance than I'rotestant schools, This is 
 due to several causes. 
 
 Oiieof thes(> is that th.> I'rench-speak- 
 in;_' settlers iiave chosen to «;roup closel)- 
 together, thereby forinin;,' more compact 
 Kottlemonts. I do not know wliether 
 this is wroii},'; but such is however the 
 tait. They have banded to^zcther, 
 forming' dense parishes situate nuiinly 
 in the river districts, where they live in 
 harmony and peace and continue their 
 friendly relations of old. The schools of 
 a tliicls. settlement, whilst boinjj; com- 
 paratively loss numerous, will of course 
 have a iar;.'or enrolment and bo better 
 attended as a rule. 
 
 An(»ther reason is that the I'rench 
 l)oiiulation is almost wholly settled <m 
 river lots oll'orin',' a ^reat dejith of two 
 miles or more, but haviu}; a very small 
 fronta<j:e ol some ei^dit or ten chains on 
 an averaj^'o. The Kn^dish-jspeakinj,' 
 population has a distinct prolerence for • 
 township surveys, oHerinjz an easy 
 access to every part of the larm alike, 
 but determining at th(^ same time a !j;ap 
 of lialf a mile between two iiei;^hborin;j; 
 houses. 1 do not know w hich is ritiht, 
 and whiidi is wronjz; but in this part i- 
 cula; respect, it is obvious that a Cath- 
 oli' school will ixatlier conveniently a 
 greater nnndier i)f settlers who are ten 
 ihains ai»art than if they were one half 
 mile apart. 
 
 I 
 
 1 
 
 
 I 
 
l'.> 
 
 lu> I'ruviiifo 
 ■/• c niitii ;ill- 
 tiii'i', or any 
 ily (Iocs not, 
 CO ol' ( Mifaiio 
 
 il' tlio very 
 lilt Catliolif 
 Mimli laiv't'i- 
 rai:*' attiMid- 
 >ls, This is 
 
 rcncli-spcak- 
 
 Ljronj) rlosciy 
 
 iiore cfpnipat't 
 
 i)\v wIkMIut 
 
 liowever the 
 
 'd to;i('tIior, 
 
 nate mainly 
 
 they live in 
 
 )ntinue tlieir 
 
 'lie schools of 
 
 heinj: coni- 
 
 II of course 
 
 nd he hetter 
 
 the I'rench 
 settled on 
 le])th of two 
 very small 
 n cliains on 
 ish-speakin«r 
 elerence for • 
 Li an easy 
 arm alike, 
 * time a j^ap 
 nei;j;hlioriiiu; 
 ich is ritrht, 
 n this parfi- 
 that aCath- 
 nvenieiitly a 
 w ho are ten 
 ero one half 
 
 il 
 
 ■I 
 
 i 
 
 Wit hont crilicizinir either. althouLdi in 
 this I have a (Uu'ided |irelereiu»' for tln^ 
 liist, it i,s also a fact thut French-Cuna- 
 <liaMs marry yuiiii<j:cr than our Mn^dish 
 com patriots ; so that, i»roiK»rti<inately, we 
 have a '^'reater iminher of settlers coii- 
 trihiitin;_' children to our schools, and a 
 much lesHcr numlter of childless settlers 
 who, hy (K'cupyinj: land w uhin a certain 
 radius fn)n] the sclnxd cause tlieir 
 nei;_ddiors to he further oil' to that extent 
 Irom their school center. 
 
 It i.s aiiotiier u»dl known fact that our 
 French taudlies are nmch lar^rer, that is 
 tt» say have more cliii<lren. than our 
 I'lnylish-speakin^' friends. This aj^'ain 
 may he n;.'ht or unui;:; Imt this aj/ain, 1 
 <'ontend, is essentially a matter in whicli 
 each memlier of the c(uiinniuity should 
 he allowed to us«' hiso sn discretion. .As 
 it is, this fact, aloni: with the others 
 mentioned, accounts tor the lar;_'er atten- 
 dance in our schools, and surely the cost 
 of running scIi.miIs must he hiiiher in 
 proporti(Mi with the Lcreater mnnhercU 
 pupils. 
 
 r>ut, Sir, althoui^h 1 have found it 
 necessary U\ touch llu;se matt^M-s, 1 do 
 not see how they can allect the qnestiun 
 now at issue. 
 
 If the Itasis (»f the L'rant is wronj; or 
 ini(niitous, which I surely deny, Ic^t us 
 ehauj^e it. Il'ahuses have crej)t in the 
 system, althonurh none have heen show n, 
 let t he L'ovcrument. l>y an eneri:eti<' act 
 of administration, say that the statute 
 must he ol>.served and cr;.sli out vi;j;or- 
 oiisl) sucli aiiuses. r>ut to reform adniin- 
 istration and t<i destroy a i)rincip|e are 
 two thinijs, and tin* n<'cessity as to the 
 one, even if it were proven, would in no 
 way iuiph' that IIk' latter is desirahle or 
 ■failed lor. 
 
 — Now, wliatare the j,'eiu'ral principles 
 
 underlyinu tlu' rduc.itional system 
 w Inch the unvernment ap" now atteuipt- 
 inj: to overthrow. 
 
 Those principles, which have .stood 
 the same in the main ever since |S7l, 
 are as t(dluws :— 
 
 1st. A lUiard of education com|Mised (»f 
 a certain number of Protestants as Pro- 
 testants, and of a certain numher of 
 Caiholics iis ( atholics. 
 
 L'nd. Two Sections of the said I'-oard : 
 one Protestant composed of the Protest- 
 ant memhers, and one ( 'atholic composed 
 of the ("atholic nu'ndx'rs. 
 
 :'.rd. Mach section havin;.' jjower: — to 
 control and administer its own schools, 
 to provide for their discij)line, to ('lnH»se 
 all l'o(»ks, matis and <_dol'es to he used 
 therein, to pass by-laws respecting? the 
 formation of schiHil districts, and gener- 
 ally for the carry int.' out ot the provisions 
 of the law. 
 
 4th. ( )no Protest I nt mendier of the 
 Board apiMtinte 1 as Superintendent of 
 the I'rotestani Section, and one Catholic 
 member of the Board appcuntcd as 
 superintendent of the < 'atholic Sectioii, 
 each superintendent ixdny: the cinef 
 e.xecntive otiicerof liisSe,ti<ni and Ix'iii;.; 
 intrusted with the ireneral suptM'vision 
 <tf the stdiools of his Section. 
 
 .")tli. Scho(d Trustees made cor})orat<' 
 iiodies with the necessary powers for the 
 maintainance (♦[ their sidi(M)ls. 
 
 (illi. Nor.i^ hut Protestants to be elii,'- 
 iblc, as Trustees and i|nalili<'d |o \-(t|(« in 
 Protestant l>istrict><, and noiu! but Calh- 
 (dics to !)e eli'.:ib|e as Trustees and 
 tpialiiied to vote in ("alii(dic districts. 
 
 7tli. Teachers in the schools of the oih; 
 Si'ction to be first recognized or i-erti- 
 licateil by such Section. 
 
 Stli. The leirislative scliool '..rrant a:ir- 
 ualh' divided i)C'tween the two Sections 
 
20 
 
 ii|M>iilli(' liiisisof their rrsimctivf pop- 
 
 llliltiull »)l Ml'llOol IliiC. 
 
 '.Mil. Miii'h Section ti» piiy mit of its 
 sliiire (if till' vrraiit ; lirst. ii(liiiiMistrati«>ii 
 expenses, then Sl.'iii.on to e.it'li of its 
 schools, :nnl lastly to distrihute tin- 
 rt!si(lue between the saints schools npon 
 the hasis of averii-re atlcMulance. 
 
 jdtli. i'ower '_'iven to each school 
 district to sniiplenient what thev receivi' 
 from the le'_'islative -rant, hy means of 
 taxation. 
 
 11. No Catholics conipelleil to pay for 
 Protestant schools, and no Protestants 
 compelled to pay for Catholic scliools. 
 
 Such is then tiie system which has 
 endnrt'd amoiv/st us lor ti\enty years. 
 
 Considered in its prini'iples, I say it in 
 ii fair svstem. Considen^l in practii-e, 
 the iicMdleman opposite have failed to 
 show us that it has worked hadly. Nei- 
 ther can it ' '^ proxcn that the work of 
 the one Section is detrimental to that of 
 the other. We hav(! no complaints 
 aL'ainst ns, and the country never asked 
 for such a cluuvic " In fact, all tiie 
 evidence hefore us 'joes to sliow tluit the 
 jjreneral population was satisfied, and the 
 <rovernment must take the responsihility 
 for liavimr raised tiie issue. 
 
 Of course, the system is denomina- 
 tional. l'"or that reason, 1 say it is fair. 
 Catholics are citizens for all that, and 
 have a claim to a fail- share of the 
 j)nldic funds to which they contrihute as 
 well as their tellow-citi/.ens of other 
 creeds. 
 
 It is useless to say : make education 
 purely secular. This is nons^Mise. The 
 same e\peri(MU(^ has allirmed itself 
 everywiiere. I'.ducation is always sure, 
 by the complex nature of num. to carry 
 a vast amount of reli;_Mous tt^aidiin^f ; and 
 so-called .se'Milar or non-sectarian schools 
 
 will always he in fact, schools wh(«n' the 
 reli;:iious viewH of the nuijority of the 
 states or province shall he taught. 
 
 This was keynly felt at the time of the 
 d«'hutt!S on confed(!ration, and u))on read- 
 in^; that paut; of our history, one at once 
 realizes liow livcdy wa« the i.ssue, and 
 how uacli section of the country was 
 intensely <lesirous that tixur schools 
 should he protected hy the very strong- 
 est safe^tuards possilde. 
 
 My lion, friend the Minisierof I'nhlie 
 Works has said tiiat in the I'rovinct* of 
 <^iehec, there are few I'rotestant schools, 
 and that thi^y are so iU!;.de('t(Ml thai 
 practically the province has a national 
 system of (Mlucation. 
 
 Uut my lion, friend is mistaken. 
 
 I liiid in the report of the Uev. ^Ir. 
 IJexford. the I'rotestant Secretary of the 
 ( (tuiicil of Kdncation, that in the province 
 of<^iehec, when; the I'rotestant i)oj)nla- 
 tioii is ls:;^',t!M», the iiumher of I'rotestant 
 eli'inenlary schools is UKi, the niimher of 
 Protestant model schools I'S, and that of 
 Protestant aialemies IK, making; a total 
 of 1,00(1 I'rotestant separate schools all 
 receiving' state aid, and havinu: an 
 atteiulaiice of nearly ;i4,.")(iO (diildren. 
 
 The Quebec system and the Manitoba 
 system are practically tiie same. I'oth 
 are sejjarate and denomin.itional. 
 
 Now , let my friends uo and preach in 
 the province of t^ueiiec the educational 
 doctrines which seem to them so fair 
 and e(piital)ie in this province of Mani- 
 toba when directed ajrainst Catholics. 
 ( )r 1(4 the jzovernment of the Province of 
 (Quebec attempt to abolish separate 
 schools and create a secular system of 
 schools as it is called, and we shall see, in 
 the space of forty-ei^'ht hours, what con- 
 (laiiration will ra^'e in every portion of 
 tliis Dominion. 
 
•Jl 
 
 ThoproHctit HyHtcni is at-'cxxl onoand ii 
 fair OIK*. It shall he the l)«'st and tlu^ 
 fairest as lon^ a8 iiien's (»pinioiis wilt he 
 ut variutU'O oit reli^MMtis matterH. 
 
 It is partly (l"e to this syHtem, that the 
 two sections (»rthe('oniiuiinif y haveheeii 
 eiiahleil t« live i)eiM (-ahly and in amity 
 Hide hy side, and so tunch so indeiMlthat, 
 up to tlio present day, it has heeii the 
 >?lory and tluMiride of tiiis yoim^.' prov- 
 ince to stand (ree from those hitter 
 contentions which are unfortunately too 
 well known in «)ther portiotm of Canadn. 
 
 l*'or us, at least, Roman ("athcdics, the 
 system is satisfactory. If not to other.i, 
 let a ciian^e lie made ; hut wliy should 
 l.'),(i(>(» free citizens he involved in such a 
 chan^ie a<;ainst ther will '.' Why should 
 not the voice of our conscience l)e heard, 
 and why should it not he respected? 
 
 I will close this part, hei'ore taking' up 
 the ConstituticuKil aspeci (jf tlie ([uestion, 
 hy (juotinji the folbwin;^ fVum the Kev. 
 Mr. (irant, Trinciijal of C^ieen's Uni- 
 versity at Kinj-'ston. lie says in his 
 contrihution t<» Macoun's work on " ){t(iii- 
 tdlxi (mil the (imtt .\(>rl liitr.it."': — 
 
 "Perhaps the most satisfactory factor in 
 the history of Manitoha is its ptniceful 
 and harmonious educational develop- 
 niant. In every other province of the 
 Dominion, lont: and aiii-'ry wars have 
 l)een wajze*! over couimon sch<M>|s, aca- 
 demies and colle;i;es. Well may the 
 province that has no history in this 
 respect be called happy. Manito])a has 
 shown that it is ]x»ssible to or;,'ani/.e 
 University education on a basis that 
 does equal justice to denominational 
 and non-denominational efforts. The 
 harmonious co-oi>eration of the colle^'es, 
 and their willin^Miess to make chan^'es 
 in their respective ideals, are signal 
 prf)ofsofthe wisdom and Catholic .spirit 
 
 of the men who ^jovern tie m. I'.duca- 
 tional prohtems oMisidered iiiHiduhle in 
 othc' countries and iirovincos luive thus 
 been ipinkly .solved in Manitoba. The 
 {'\\\ spirit of sei'tarianism has been 
 exorcise(|, not by the (»strich-like wisdom 
 of ijiuorin^j sects, hut by frankly acknow- 
 lodj^iny the jiood work they have done, 
 an.l securin;,' their co-operation in 
 common objects. .Iiistice is done to all, 
 and in const iiuence, colle^'es withdill- 
 erent histories, iileals an<l modes of 
 vrovernment ^.'ladly send their alumni lo 
 one centre to In; stamjHjd with the 
 common stamp of tlie University <»f 
 Manitoba. May the spirit that has 
 presided over the Univ(!rsity in the days 
 of its iK)verty not desert its authorities 
 wJKMi throuvih the development of the 
 country it becomes wealthy and power- 
 ful." 
 
 This is also the spirit which has pre- 
 sided. Sir, over the whole educationni 
 dei)artment ln're, and I trust that in 
 spittMtfthe bold attempt made by the 
 }.'oveniment, it will not desert this House. 
 
 — liefore we examine this (|uestion in 
 its coiLstitutional aspect, Iwislitosaya 
 few words of the educational history of 
 Manitoba belbre ISTO. That liist<,ry, I 
 may sav, bus be<_'an at a more remote 
 perioil than is irenerally known. It was 
 not only in the si.xties that schools were 
 in existen( e in INIanitolia. From the 
 moment the Reverend Mr. Trovencber 
 at the bidding' of tlie Karl of Selkirk, 
 took land on the shores of tlie \\.Vi\ 
 River, the cause of education had an 
 apostle in Assiniboia and its history be- 
 <:an. 
 
 In lN]!i. l.atin elements were already 
 beinj: tau^'ht at St. IJoniface. in the 
 school w hich had been opened the pre- 
 vious vear. 
 
')i 
 
 In 18l>5, ho iiuirko.l wore the advan. 
 tact's alreatly deriving tVoiu the edii- 
 catioii tiiveii hy the CatiiuUc Mission- 
 aries, that on tlie second day of .Inly 
 tlie cliief factory ol' the Ilndson's IJay 
 C'oinpai'.y asserobled in Conncil at ^drk 
 Factory, passed tlie follow in^ re.sohition : 
 
 "(ireat lieiielit heinii experienced Ironi 
 "the henevcdent uiid iudefati;jahle e.\- 
 "ertion ol the Catholic Mission at M'id 
 "River, in the welfare and moral and 
 "religions instiintion of its nnnieroiis 
 '•followers; and it lieinji' observed with 
 "innch satisl'aetion that the inflnence of 
 "the Mission nnder tlie ilirection of the 
 "Ki;^ht Keverejid I'lishoi) '^^ .Inliopolis 
 "has lieen nnifoiiidy directed to the 
 "best interest of tlie settlement and o^ 
 "the conntry at lar^e, it is resolved 
 '"That, in order to mark onr appreiiation 
 "of sjch. landible and disintei-ested con- 
 "dnctontlie part ot said Mission, it Ije 
 "recommended to the lIonoral)le ("om- 
 "mittee, that a snm of sixty pounds per 
 "annum be uiven towards its support." 
 
 lnl8J(>, the first school for girls was 
 established at vSt. Boniface. 
 
 In 18oS, the first industrial scliool was 
 also established in St. Boniface. The 
 teaching comprised sewing, knitting, and 
 weaving sjjecially, and it was conducted 
 by experts brought from (Quebec. 
 
 The fall of 1S44 finds the Sisters of 
 Charity on the lied River, and their ar- 
 rival marks a period of improved edu- 
 cation for girls in the Colony. 
 
 Schools were thus established by the 
 Catholic Mission at St. Boniface, at St. 
 Norbert and St. Wancois Xavier. 
 
 I woui 1 ask, in this ivspect, to be al- 
 lowed to (|note a few ]iassages from a 
 public document. It is an oUicial report 
 tnade by Mr. Henry Yonle Hind, of the 
 "('•ntnli^ii Ked Biver expedition of lS."i7." 
 
 He says at the beginning ol chapter lb 
 
 "I'ldueation is in a far more advamed 
 "state in the colony i Assinihoia) than its 
 ''isolation and brief career might claim 
 "lor it under the peculiar ciri'umstances 
 "in which the countiy las been so long 
 •'placed. Tiiere are seventeen schools 
 "m the settlement, generally under the 
 "supervision of the nnnislers ofthede* 
 "nomination to which they belong.'" 
 
 I'lirtheron : — "All of the foregoing es- 
 "taldisbments are independent of the 
 "Suuilay schools pnjperly so-called in 
 "connection with thetlitlerenttdiurcheis." 
 
 Speaking ol' the Church of Kngland 
 schot)ls and ([noting from His Bordship 
 the Bishop of Bupert's Land, tlie report 
 adds : 
 
 "The sources of income vary much; ten 
 t)ut of the thirteen schools are connected 
 with the churidi Missionary Sot'iety. . . 
 In the other schools about one half may 
 be paid by the society, sometimes less, 
 and the rest is made up by the parents 
 of the children 
 
 "The sum paid by parents is lilteen 
 "shillings a year; when latin is taught, 
 
 "one pound The parochial 
 
 "scliool connected with my ow n church 
 "'.seciual to mosty)ai()chial schools which 
 "I have known in Kngland." 
 
 Speaking later of I'reshyterian schools, 
 the narrative (juotes a letter from the 
 Kev. .lohn Black, from whii'h the follow- 
 ing is extracted :— 
 
 "First, then, as to the scliool: it is en- 
 "tirely supported by the people of the 
 "district, or rather by those; of them who 
 ■'send their children io it. You are aware 
 "that "'(■ lidvc rio puhlir scIkidI yi/sl<iii in 
 "tlw folovji, (IV d this, like the ns(^ in tj. rc- 
 '\fnri' csaoitialh/ <i (loioiiiiiintiniKil .'r.'/oo/." 
 
 On the subject of Catholic scIkioIs, the 
 report siniiliarly (juotes a letter from 
 
'S\ 
 
 Um- Kl 
 ■aii((!(l 
 liiii it.s 
 t'liiim 
 tiiiice.s 
 io long 
 rlajols 
 CM- tJie 
 le (le* 
 
 Ilis Griire Arrlibisliop Taoho, parts ol 
 which lire as follows : 
 
 "'l"he parishes on the banks of the Ked 
 "Iviver and the Assinihoine are four in 
 "nnniber, St. Boniface, St. Norbert, St. 
 "Francois Xavier. and St. riiarles. 
 "Fifty-eitrht children receive edncati(jn 
 "in the school of the Brothers of the 
 '•Christian Doctrine, in the ])arish of St. 
 "Boniiace. in tlie convent belon^nnij; to 
 "the Sisters of riiarity, coinnunily known 
 
 "in Canada as tlie (irey Nnns, twenty 
 "yonniz ladies are lujarded, and receive 
 "an excellent edncatinn, siiital)le to tlieir 
 ■'station in life. Besitles tiie l)oarders, 
 "the sisters maintain and edncate (ifteen 
 '■poor ori)han <>irls, and keep a day 
 "school for the benefit of the }X)orer 
 "portion ot tiie parishioners. In the 
 "parish of St. Norbert, thirty-one boys 
 "and twenty-nine <.nrls attend the 
 "schools ke^it by a priest and the Sisters 
 "of Charity. In the parish ofSt. Francois 
 "Xavier thirteen lioys and twenty-six 
 "^irls receive instrnction from the Sisters 
 "of (^harity." 
 
 It is then established, as a matter of 
 fuct,that in Assiniboia, prior to Union: — 
 There were schools. That the schools 
 (exclnsive of Sunday st-hools) were either 
 elementary orcoile<j:iale,ihe forn.er beini: 
 l)y far the more numen. us. That all the 
 schools were denominational, beinjj;; 
 Chnrcii of I'njiland, I'resbyterian, or 
 Koman Catholic. Ttiat they were 
 denominational in the senne that they 
 were the pro^jerty ol their respective 
 denomination, maintained for their 
 respeitive benefit and with their resi)ec- 
 tive resources, managed by tiieir 
 respective reitreseitatives, and attended 
 respectively by their childrtMi. That all 
 the sciiools were denoiuinational in tliis 
 other and es,'-;ential sense, tliat they 
 i');i)arted the particular reli*;ious teai h- 
 
 iiij^s of their respective denominations, 
 without wliichthey would not have been 
 denoiuinational. f hat the schools were 
 l-'enerally under the sui)ervision of tlu^ 
 minislers olliie denomination to which 
 they belouiied, and this was invariably 
 so lor Koman Catholic schools. That 
 the children of the one ileuomination, 
 and more strictly so for Homan Catholics, 
 attended only the schools of their re- 
 spective denomination, and in fuct, by 
 the grouping of the dilferent elements of 
 tlie po))iilation it could iiardly he other- 
 wise. That the people contril)uted to the 
 schools of their respective denominations 
 and to these only. 
 
 ^uch were then, belbre the Cnion, the 
 circumstances of e<b.icational life in 
 Assinihoia. 
 
 As soon as the entry of >Ianitoba in 
 Conieileraiiou is consummated, such 
 princii)les as had been luider the old 
 regime followed and ol)served as a 
 matter of practice, are recognized and 
 sanctioned by law ; and the first school 
 act, based on the denominational prin- 
 ciple, is framed in b'-«7l. From that year 
 to this moment, some twenty years have 
 lapsed and the old school act of bS71 has 
 been modified by some twcmty-two 
 amendments ; but so wise were its car- 
 dinal principles considered, that it may 
 truly I.e said that su i'n\\ \\c have had 
 but one school law in .Manitoba. 
 
 I'rom these special cirrumslanct's 
 existing before the union, and from the 
 schools act of 1S7I framed after tho 
 Cuioii, two I'lasses of rights and privil- 
 eges arise in favor of certain r(digious 
 denoiuinations in Manitoba, and 1 
 propose now to examine them in tin! 
 liLihtofthe r>ritish Nortli Amerira Act 
 and ot the Manitol>a .\ct. 
 
 [The constitutional ars.'ument expos'd 
 in the .Manitoba i.e-islatnie in 1M»0, 
 
24 
 
 before tlie Court of (iueon's Bencli both 
 In tbe lir.st instimce and in appeal in 
 1S!)1, and later before tlie Supreme Conrt, 
 tbe jndicial coniniittee of tbe Trivy 
 Conncil, and tbe «:ovornor-}.'eneral-in- 
 council is liere omitted. So, also, a 
 review of tbe development of ediu^ation 
 in Knjiland and Canada. Tbe member 
 for Woodlands coiudiided as follows: 
 Ei). N. W. Ukvikw.] 
 
 — I iiave notbinjj; more to say, Mr. 
 Speaker, beyond summoning up my 
 position on tlie matter. 
 
 I bave endeavored to siiow that tliis 
 policy lias ori;iinated in a fanatical cry 
 of Mr. Dalton INIcCartby. I bave 
 tried to answer tbe ciiar<:es preferred 
 against tbe I>oard of Kducation and 
 partii'ularly tbe Catbolic Section, and to 
 show tbe satisfactory working of tbe 
 school law wbieli has stood for twenty 
 years on our statute book. 
 
 I have cbovvn that tbe I'ill before the 
 TTousc is contrary to the general policy 
 ot tbe Dominion, to the cardinal prin- 
 ciples of Confederation, to the very basis 
 of tne solemn compact wbudi has made 
 United-Canada of to-day, and should 
 therefore be disallowed. I have shown 
 also, I believe, that the government in 
 this matter are going beyond the limita- 
 tions set to their jurisdiction, that tbe 
 Bill is ultra vires and could not stand in 
 our courts of law. 
 
 We claim, Sir, both under tbe Britisli 
 North America Act and under the 
 Manitoba Act. We claim both under 
 the practice followed before tbe Union, 
 and any violation of our riglits and 
 privileges in tiiis respect makes the r>iil 
 ultra vires; and we claim again under tlie 
 legislation passed in Manitoba alter the 
 Union, and any violation of our privileges 
 in this other respect vests us with tbe 
 right of seeking redress at the iiands of 
 
 tbe central authorities. I admit. Sir, 
 in tbe words of Lord Cameron in tbe 
 House of Lords when moving on the Bill 
 which has become tbe British North 
 America Act, tiiat this appeal clause 
 may seem ''a somewhat peculiar arrange- 
 ment," but I say also with him titat it is 
 "an arrangement which should be 
 respected 1" and it this legislature intend 
 to infrini.''e to-day upon our educational 
 immunities, tiien the governor-general- 
 in-council has tlie right to take the 
 matter in bis own bands, an<l with tiie 
 aid of I'arlianient to legislate, in so far as 
 is necessary to protct tlie minorities, in 
 a manner binding upon tbe I'rovince. 
 
 Those privileges which we claim are 
 not so extraordinary after all. Sir. Tliey 
 are based (jn tbe natural law. We claim 
 in the name ot parental authority tbe 
 right to control tbe education of our 
 cliikhen, and without going in tiie de- 
 tails of the same, l>e we Catholics or 
 Presbyterians, Kpiscopalians or Baptists, 
 jirovided we remain within tbe pale of 
 Christianity, sure'y that authority 
 should not be considered as suspicious. 
 Of course, the state which is called upon 
 to aid so many enterprises, should 
 eipuiUy bonus those institutions w Inch 
 do the educational work of her citizens. 
 For this jMirpose, tbe state lias a right to 
 fix the conditions of such grants, to 
 eui^ure a certain standard ofetlicieney, 
 and to ascertain by way of inspections 
 whether this has been attained or not. 
 But far 1.= this from controlling tbe edu- 
 cational department altogetbei and 
 usurping a place which l>e]ongs to tbe 
 parents alone. W. only ask in this 
 respect tbe same treatment as is accord- 
 ed in Kngland. Tbe system tliere, al- 
 though not perfect in my view, is eipiit- 
 able in this at least, that whilst not 
 recognizing religious instruction it does 
 
25 
 
 al- 
 
 ■ot liowever pretend that it vitiates 
 •ec'ular education ; and the <rovernnient 
 •eeni-s practically to say: "We do not 
 care whetlier you are C'atijolic, An^dican. 
 or Wesleyan ; we cure not aljout the 
 nature of your taxes, nor of the present 
 character of your religious teaching, we 
 have nothin}^ to say to that. Build up 
 your scliools, educate the young, make 
 up enlightened citizens (.'atholic or Pro- 
 testant, and when you couie to us and 
 are able to show us result, we will recog- 
 nize your work Itv allowing you your lair 
 share of the public moneys." 
 
 I may say. Sir, that we do not intend 
 to acce])tthis Hill as it is. We will, if 
 nece.ssary, move against it even to the 
 footoftlie Throne. Tlie hon. attorney- 
 general has stated yesterday that even 
 if t!ie House entertains doubts as to the 
 constitutionality of the Art, the i)roi)er 
 course is to go ahead and move boldly in 
 the matter and thus throw upon otiier 
 shoulders the onus of proving it to be 
 unconstitutional. Was th.n a statesman- 
 like utterance. .Sir, to fall from the lijisof 
 the chief law adviser of the (Jrown ? Will 
 the House agree with him, that it was 
 not his duty to first remove all doubts 
 which may have existed and do yet 
 e"xist, and throw the country in a state of 
 turmoil and excitement of wdiich we 
 cannot forsee the nature nor prophecy 
 the full results? 
 
 The hon. gentleman has closed his 
 speech with a fervid announcement of his 
 devotion tc provincial rights. I had 
 understood, Sir, that provincial rigiits are 
 such as are made so by the constitution, 
 nothing more and nothing less, lint if 
 provincial! rights mean simply that the 
 province may well trample on the con- 
 stitution, rebel itself against .solemn 
 pledges, maintain the one side of a 
 contract and repudiate the other, well 
 
 then, T repudiate such an interpretation, 
 and I am not for such provincial rights. 
 
 As a I'rotedtant statesman, (riiizot has 
 said': The Catholic church is the greatest 
 teacher of respect for authority which 
 the world has ever seen." 
 
 And so. Sir. we have the greatest res- 
 pect possible for the law. But we de- 
 cline to consider as law the whims and 
 fancies ar.d legislative oxcentricities of 
 my honorable friend opposite. I will then 
 advise him, if he wishes to avoid con- 
 secpiences which may be more serious 
 than he anticipates, to be carehil before 
 sending his iKuliHs and attempting to dis- 
 train on our property. We will not sub- 
 mit to tiie Act until more tangible proof 
 of its constitutionality is Ibrthconiing. I 
 have no dcjubt but that it will receive 
 some majority in tiiis House. The 
 (pieslion will then be brought before the 
 courts and we will appeal to every pos- 
 sible tribunal and avail ourselves of all 
 tlie remedies which the Constitution 
 warrants. When the (iovernment can 
 come back anil say : "This is the decis- 
 ion ottlie highest and last authority, af- 
 ter the whole jurisdiction provided by 
 law has been resorted to," then I for one, 
 and I believe tlie whole Catholic people 
 of Manitoba, would submit — sad but res- 
 igned; conscious that we h.'ive contend- 
 (ied for the most elementary principles 
 of Christianity ; and we may possibly 
 then look for homes in other countries 
 where, perhaps, we may not find a 
 more favorable state ofthings, but where, 
 at least, the i)rinciple will not have laid 
 down that the faith of contracts may be 
 ruthlessly trampled upon, that right is 
 sacred only when in the hands of a 
 majority, and that the most solemn 
 pledges are in the hands of politicians 
 as mere trifles to be used for party pur- 
 poses. 
 
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 E. J. DERMODY, 
 
 PRINTER AND PUBLISHER. 
 
 WINNIPEG. MAN. 
 
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