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 1 
 
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 6 
 
MR. 
 
 ip 
 
 he n« 
 
 In the '. 
 Decembe 
 moving tl 
 bill to t 
 said :— 
 
 i»lr. Spe 
 
 tend to p 
 
 which is 
 
 day. Th( 
 
 day is for 
 
 When I w 
 
 marks 1 1 
 
 the order 
 
 reading oi 
 
 that the I 
 
 tee on Lej 
 
 er, I statai 
 
 presented 
 
 party bi 
 
 WOUl(j| 81 
 
 est ' atte 
 whether t] 
 approval c 
 but also it 
 who comp 
 regret that 
 has prever 
 tion before 
 thereJ|y gi 
 
-■■■ 7^->. ■**. 
 
 W'lf I 'g^ ."<t ':, 
 
 THE COURTS OF QUEBEC. 
 
 K 
 
 MR. CASGRAINS MEASURE FOR THEIR RE-ORGANIZATION. 
 ITS PROVISION DISCUSSED. 
 
 he need of improvement urgent. How the proposed law will 
 meet the wants of the case. 
 
 RKI'BINTED FROM " THB GAKETTE," MONTBKAL, DECEMBER 26th, 1893. 
 
 In the Legi&lati e assembly on the 12th 
 December, Hon. T. Chase (^aegrain, in 
 moving the reference ot the Judicature 
 bill to the committee on Legislation, 
 said :— 
 
 i*lr. Speaker, — The motion which i in- 
 tend to propose to-day is nut the one 
 which is entered on the orders of the 
 day. The motion on the orders of the 
 day is for the second reading uf the bill. 
 Wiien I will have concluded the few re- 
 marks I have to make, I will move that 
 the order of the House fortlie second 
 reading of the bill be discbanred and 
 that the bill be referred to the commit- 
 tee on Legislation. Last year, Mr. Speak- 
 er, I stated that I hoped ttie bill which I 
 presented would nut be considered as a 
 party bill, but that the House 
 would, study it with the great- 
 est attent'ion, so as to see 
 whether the measure not only meets the 
 approval of th«j Hopoe and ot the country, 
 but also it it is sufhcient to' relieve those 
 who complain of the present system. I 
 regret that an illness ot nearly a fortnight 
 has prevented me from bringing the ques- 
 tion before the House until to-aay, and 
 thereliy giving tii« House an opportunity 
 
 "^ii^^b 
 
 of more deeply studying the measure 
 which I had the honor to submit. 
 
 ACTION OF THE BAR. 
 
 The invitation which we made last 
 year 'o the Bar, the magistracy and the 
 boards of trade to study the bill, has 
 been accepted, it is true, but accepted 
 very late. I had asked here in the 
 House that the invitation be accepted at 
 least before the first of July, 1893, so as to 
 give us time between that date and the 
 beginning of the session to study the sug- 
 gestions which might be made 
 and put into practice the obser- 
 vations which might be submitted 
 to us on the bill in question. 
 The fact is that the discussion on the bill 
 commenced only about the beginning of 
 the session. Seeing that the various sec- 
 tions of the Bar, the majority of these 
 sections, had not studied the bill, the 
 Government deemed it advisable to con- 
 vene here the delegates of all the sections 
 of the Bar and the members of the J^ju* 
 of the principal cities of the province to 
 study the bill with me. This invitation 
 was accepted and all the sections of the 
 
 .% 
 
 ^•4 
 
 Wi 
 
rovince as well as tlie members of the 
 >ar of tfie lePfling dtiea ol the province 
 id metfie '._• ,; of uieetiiiK me liere, 
 Ve studied the bill for a wiiole day, a 
 lay very laboriouslv tilled, and we were 
 inabled to see what the general feeling 
 *as. at least that of the leiral ijiof'esaion. 
 It has been stated that the entire leiral 
 pW)fe88ioa iss oppnt^ .d to the measure. I 
 cannot allow tnat statement to go uncon- 
 tradicted. 
 
 -' IN KAVOKOI' THE U[M,. 
 
 We had here, for instance, the author- 
 ized representative of the section of the 
 i?ar of the district of Quebec, Hon. Mr. 
 Langelier. There was only one detail in 
 the whole bill to which the Quebec Bar 
 objected. This was the provision which 
 said that w l)en the city jiid^ies would dis- 
 appear, they would be replaced by those 
 appointed to perform their duties in the 
 country. With that exception Mr. Lange- 
 lier gave his adhesion to the bill, and in 
 that he represented, as 1 iiave already 
 said, the section of the Bar of the dis- 
 trict of Quebec. We had also the Bar 
 of Rimouski. represetitfcd by Mr. Poulioc. 
 and the Bar of the district ot Beauce, re- 
 presented by Mr. l.iniere Taschereau. 
 These gentlemen declared themselves in 
 favor oT the bill. It is true that tlie sec- 
 tions of Three Rivers, St. Francis, Bed- 
 ford, St. Hyacinthe and St. .lolins were 
 opposed to the bill and the Montreal Bar 
 was rei^resented by a gentleman who 
 said he was authorized to oppose the bill. 
 But I would like to call tlie attention of 
 the House to what happened at 
 
 THE MONTREAL BAK. 
 
 The question was discussed for some 
 time and one of the most distinguished 
 advocates of Montre*!, a gentleman 
 whom I am glad to count amongst my 
 friends, Mr. Globensky, wai instructed to 
 draw up a report against the bill, that is 
 to say on the bill and not agnhn't it ; be- 
 cause at the first meeting of the Montreal 
 Bar, if I am properly informed, the ques- 
 tion was considered without any decision 
 being come to either for or against the 
 measure. Mr. Globensky, who was 
 instructed by the council to draft 
 a report, made a report against the bill. 
 When the Montreal Bar was convened to 
 take Mr. Globensky's report^ iqto consid- 
 
 eration there were only twenty-three 
 members present out of over three hun- 
 dred, and the vote stood thirteen against 
 and ten in favor of the measure. I am 
 pleased to be able to tell the House that 
 distinguished men such as Mr. GeoHVion, 
 Mr. Gustave Lamothe, M.\ Demers, Mr. 
 Eugene i.afontaine, whom we have 
 known to such advantavje in this House, 
 have declared themselves in favor of the 
 bill. I say this merely to remove ttie 
 impression that the whole Bar is opposed 
 to the bill. I am still, at present, receiv- 
 ing letters from everywhere from my 
 brother advocates asking me not to refer 
 the bill to ttie cammittee on Legislation 
 but to have it passed this session. 
 
 WH.ST PETITIONERS THINK. .' ~ 
 
 Moreover, amongst the resolutions and 
 petitions laid on the table of the House 
 as supplementary to the return to an 
 order of the House for copie&of all corre- 
 spondence on the subject, we laid on 
 the table a great many petitions lately 
 received from ratepayers of the province, 
 from ratepayer? ^f certain chefi^ luu.r, 
 from important "-' in t he province, 
 
 asking us to havt I. 'sstd. There 
 
 is a reason which, aL /& ••it "ttiier*. favors 
 the proposal 1 now mak' , • '.to r. !>*the 
 bill to the comnr'iiioe on Letjicla"-' 
 tion for further studw The honorable the 
 members oJ tlu' Houet huve ob.'^erveil 
 that the draft of the revised (■•()" vt ri\ , 
 Procedure so long and so anxiou 3y ex- 
 pected, has been laid, ir tioth languages, 
 on the members' desk8,f id they have ob- 
 served that that bill coi ains, in its first 
 articles, provisions resp jcting the organ- 
 ization of the courts in the province of 
 Quebec. It could not be otherwise with 
 a code of proced e, because a code of 
 procedure cannot be complete, nor can it 
 contain all that it should contain, if it do 
 not contain the organization of the courts 
 of the province of Quebec. Now, we 
 have reached, in the labor of 
 
 REVISING THE CODE OF ITiOgEDUBE, 
 
 which we are now doing, about half the 
 work, and the other half, as 1 will state 
 in a few days, will be laid before this 
 House at the beginning ot next session. 
 I even hope, if the House wiH permit, to 
 be able to" distribute the other half of the 
 Code of Civil Procedure daring the re- 
 
cess, so that it would not be possible or, 
 at least, it would not be prudent, to pass 
 a bill tbia year reorganizing the courts of 
 the province of (Quebec without, at the 
 same time, passing the Code of Civil Pro- 
 cedure, because both bills are co-relative, 
 are closely connected with eacli other. 
 And when we come to discuss a proposi- 
 tion afiecting the organization of the 
 courts, it will be seen that it at 
 once connects itsfcU with another provis- 
 ion of the Code uf Civil Procedure 
 which deals purely and simply with civil 
 procedure. As we cannot hope that the 
 code of civil procedure will be adopted 
 this session, 1 say that this is another 
 reason.wby the bill should be referred to 
 the Committee on Legislation so that the 
 committee may study it, it deemeil ad- 
 visable, or defer its consideration to next 
 year — in a word so that it may do what 
 the speech from tlie ttironesaid we would 
 do this year, that is, study the bill in 
 ouestion. A Iter these lew ••emarka, I have 
 not much to add to what I said in my 
 speech of last year. Nevertheless, as 
 some of my brother "d*" .:tes, some sec- 
 tions of the Baran ! .out r ftwspapers liave 
 done me the .. ifttitnti thorougiily dis- 
 cutising the ' Jdmo'ider ttiat it would 
 not be proper ■ > ini>. to allow to pass un- 
 norijed the remarlsi kindly made to me 
 in the very best spi,rit, without discussing 
 them and seekins; to ascertain their value. 
 
 ,^w TIIK li.AN OK THK lilhl.. " 
 
 But before pro ceding to these remarks 
 1 think it is but ijiht that I should at 
 present once m .e explain the general 
 plan of the bill, : o that the House may 
 fully understand the question, may fully 
 understand the principle at stake, may 
 fully understand the r -^tline of the bill, 
 and be then in a position to study it with 
 a full knowledge of the subject. If we 
 refer to section 2 ofth« bill it will be seen 
 that the courts of * he province in civil, 
 criminal and mixed matters are: 
 
 1. The Court i/f Queen's Rencm: -. •. 
 
 (a) SittiDg In crimlr.il matters; 
 
 (b) Sitting in appeal. 
 
 2. The Superior court. • 
 
 3. The District court. 
 
 4. Tlie Conimlssloners' court. 
 
 5. The Court of Sessions of the Peace. 
 B. The Court of .Tusticesoi the Peace. 
 7. The Recorder's court. 
 
 I wish to call the attention of this 
 Houseonly to the first tliree courts, viz, 
 
 tbe|Courtof Queen's Bench, the Superior 
 court, the District court. ,, „ 
 
 ".1 ami ' 
 THE Sl'l'ERIOR COUKT. •. 
 
 What is the constitution of the Superior 
 court and what is its jurisdiction? The 
 answer to this question will be found iij 
 sections 2(1, 27, 28 aud.,76 of the bill. Here 
 are sections 26 and 27, which deal with 
 ttie constitution of the court. I will read 
 them. 1 wouid hrst observe to the House 
 that there is a printer's error in both 
 these sections, a mistaKe in the figuret. 
 Thus, instead of 15 in the second linu of 
 pection 2(1 we should tiave 10, and in the 
 hrst line of section 27 instead of 9 we 
 must put 10, so that the sections read as 
 follows : — 
 
 28. The Superior court, which is a court of 
 record, consists of tllteeu [should be six- 
 teen) judges, having jurisdiction throuKliout 
 the province ; tliat is to say, ot the chief Justice 
 and fourteen puisne judges. 
 
 For the purposes of the administration of 
 justice for the Superior court, the province of 
 (.Quebec is divided into three parts : 
 
 I The Montreal division, comprising the 
 nine lollowlng districts: Montreal. Ottawa, 
 'J'errehonne, Jolietto, Kichelleu. Beautaarnols, 
 Bedford, Iberville and St. Hyaclnthe; 
 
 'i The (.Quebec division, comprising tlie ten 
 following districts: Quebec, Tliree Rivers, Sa- 
 guenay. Chicoutimi, Gaspe, Rimouski, Kano- 
 ouraska, Montmagny, Beauce and Artha- 
 
 ;h The -it. Francis division, comprlslnK the 
 district of St. Francis. 
 
 27. Nine [should be ten] judges of the Su- 
 perior court reside in or near tlie city of Mont- 
 real, and exercise their ordinary judicial func- 
 tions in the Mnntieal division ; five of the said 
 judges reside in or rear the city of Quebec, and 
 exercise their ordinary judicial functions in the 
 tjuebec division; and one of the said judges 
 residing in or near the city of Sherbroolce, and 
 exercising nis ordinary judicial functions in 
 the St. Francis division. 
 
 THE CENTBAMBATION CRY. 
 
 Now Mr. Speaker, it will perhaps be 
 said: "That ia the commencement of 
 judicial centralization." I say no. I aay 
 that judicial centralization or decentrali- 
 zation does not result from the residence 
 or non-residence of the judge, and 1 will 
 explain later on what I mean by judicial 
 centralization. If we refer to section 7G 
 it will be seen that there is nothing in 
 the constitution of the Superior court to 
 lead to the belief that I wished for an 
 instant to centralize the administration 
 ot justice in the province of Quebec. 
 Section 38 of the bill reads as follows : 
 
H8. There Hlmll be terms and sitllngB of the 
 Superior court and oi the judnes of thiH court, 
 as often hh the due despct^h of buslnosH and the 
 public convenience may reijulre, at the chef 
 lieu of each of the Judicial d'Htrlcts ot the prov- 
 iuce. at the dates and durInK the periods ap- 
 pointed by order of the Lleutenant-Qovernor- 
 In-counell. 
 
 The HlttlngR of ihe Superior court cannot 
 commence belore nine of the clock In the fore- 
 noon, nor end after six of the clock in the 
 afternoon. 
 
 Articles 21 and 22 of This net apply tnulatis 
 mutanilis to the Siiperfor court. 
 
 The terms and sHtin^rs of the Sujierlor court 
 and of the Judges of tlmt court shail be presid- 
 ed over by the chief Justice or by one of the 
 other juditeN of the court selected by the chief 
 Justice, and, In the division In which the chief 
 justice does not reside, by the Judge jierformlng 
 the duties of chief Justice therein. R. 
 8. 0.,c. 44,8. 94. 
 
 TliE TERMS OK THE (»IIRT. 
 
 So that, Mr. Speaker, the organization 
 of the Superior court is this: You have 
 sixteen judges of tha Superior court, ten 
 of whom reside in Montieal, live in Que- 
 bec and one in the district of St. Francis. 
 But all the cases which hitherto were 
 beard in the various chfj'^ liens, all the 
 cases which were argued in the various 
 cheis lievx, and which were decided there, 
 will be heard, argued and decided there 
 as they are at present. The terms 
 of the Superior court will be 
 fixed, rot by a rule of practice 
 on which the judges will agree 
 amongst themselves, as was the case 
 under the old law ; but they shall be 
 fixed by the Lieutenant-Governor-in- 
 council according to public requirements. 
 So that the judges will no longer sit for 
 a few days when they please, but they 
 will be compelled by a proclamation of 
 the Lieutenant • Governor - in - council 
 which will state that on such and such a 
 day they will be obliged to go and hear 
 the cases at the chrf lieu of each district. 
 There is a paragraph in section 38 which 
 may appear singular, it is the one 
 which says that the court cannot 
 commence before 9 in the morning 
 nor end after 6 in the afternoon 
 This paragraph was inserted 
 quest of several country 
 who said to me : " If 
 pel a judge who resides in 
 come and hear cases at a 
 lieu, he will hurry through 
 
 at the re- 
 advocates, 
 you com- 
 Quebec to 
 country chef 
 his cases as 
 fsst as possible bo, as to have done with 
 them and get back to Quebec as soon as 
 possible. He will Bit until midnight if 
 
 necessary to be able to get home by the 
 next train, and by that means we will 
 not be able to get that justice which we 
 have a rinhi to expect." The paragraph 
 in question says that the court cannot 
 commence to sit before nine in the fore- 
 noon nor end after six in the afternoon, 
 lu this manner the advocates are sure to 
 have time to argue their cases, the wit- 
 nesses will iiave all the time required to 
 give their evidence, and the cases will be 
 heard as justice requires thom to be 
 heard. 
 
 TllK (ill'-STUN OK Al'PEAL. 
 
 How, as to the judgments of the 
 Superior court, the Court of Review con- 
 ^..tinues as it now exists. The Court of 
 Review is a court of review for Superior 
 court judgments. I was about to forget 
 toeaywhat I shoulc' have said at the 
 very beginning, and that is that the 
 Superior court, as it exists according to 
 the bill in question, is a Superior court 
 having jurisdiction in all cases in which 
 the amount exceeds $400. Thus, m all 
 cases for an amount over $400, the 
 Superior court, as it now exists, will have 
 jurisdiction, and as regards the judgments 
 of that court, the judges of the Superior 
 court so constituted, the Court of Review 
 will continue to exist as at present. As 
 everyone knows, according to the rules 
 of the Code of Procedure, one cannot go 
 into appeal if the judgment of the 
 Superior Court is confirmed by the Court 
 of Review. 1 have retained this pro- 
 vision in the bill, but suitors are free to 
 choose between the Court of Review and 
 the Court of Appeal, and the judgment of 
 the Superior court may be taken at once 
 into review or into apoeal. If the judg- 
 ment is reversed by the Court of Review, 
 tbe appeal still lies under the rule which 
 at present exists in the Code of Civil Pro- 
 cedure. So much for the Superior court. 
 To resume, and I specially call the atten- 
 tion of the members of this honorable 
 House to this point, there .s no judicial 
 centralization. Judicial centralization 
 would consist in the fact ol our having in 
 Quebec and Montreal, in the large cen- 
 tres, the hearing and trial of cases, and 
 compelling suitors to come to the large 
 centres. But under the bill as I submit 
 it, it is the judges who, as it were, gn to 
 the suitors. They go to the c/ir/s lieux aa 
 they do now and justice goes to the snit- 
 ors.' 
 
'I'HK DISTRICT COIRTS. 
 
 T now mme to the District conrt, Hec- 
 tiona 4;'), 4f), 47, 48, 49, 'lO, 54 and 5() give 
 118 the uonHtitiitioii and jurisdiction of 
 tbe District court. It baa jurisdiction in 
 all cases where the amount of issue does 
 not exceed $400. Hitherto it was the Su- 
 perior coust which had jurisdiction in all 
 cases from $100 to $400, now in all cases 
 in which the amount does not exceed 
 $400, it is the District court wbicli has 
 Huch jurisdiction. Where does this court 
 sit and how is it composed? The Dis- 
 trict court, says section 45, has and exer- 
 cises the same jurisdiction, tunctions and 
 powers as the Circuit court had, 
 and in cases not exceeding; 
 $400, which were within the 
 jurisdiction of the Superior court, it has 
 tbe same jurisdiction,' functions and 
 powers as tbe Superior court to tbe ex- 
 clusion of tbe latter. The District court 
 consists of twenty-six judges, who are 
 distributed throughout the province as 
 follows : Seven of the District court 
 judges reside in or near the city of Mon- 
 treal ; three res'de in o»'near tlie city of 
 Quebec and, with tbe exception of tbe 
 district ot Saguenav which is served by 
 the judge of the dist \,t of Chicoutimi 
 and Sagnenay, each cA«//im has a rest- 
 dent district judge. Thus in every dis- 
 trict chef heu, as it now exists, 
 there will be a resident district 
 judge having jurisdiction to the 
 amount of $400 inclusively. Con- 
 sequently it may at once be seen that 
 if it could, by accident.be said that there 
 is judicial centralization in the constitu- 
 tion of the Superior court, there is decen- 
 tralization in the case of the District 
 coiart ; and I would add that there is 
 even greater decentralization than now 
 exists. If we refer to sections 54 
 and 56 of tbe bill, it will be seen 
 that, with the exception of the 
 counties of Hochelaga, Jacques Car- 
 tier, Laval, St. Maurice and Quebec, 
 tbe District court may be established not 
 only in each county chef lieu or county 
 seat, not only in each place where the 
 Circuit court now sits, because it is well 
 known that in some counties there is 
 more tbaji one Circuit court, but under 
 these sections of the bill in question the 
 District court may sit in more than one 
 place in tbe same county. 
 
 ORTKOT OF THE CHANOE. 
 
 What is the object of this provision? 
 At present you have extensive tracts ot 
 country which were not inhabited when 
 the act ol 1857 was passed. You have, 
 for instance, tbe vast region ot Lake St. 
 John. You have tbe great region to t'le 
 north of Montreal, and you have other 
 regions in the province where there are 
 no courts, where there is not even a Cir- 
 cuit court, and where witnesses and suit- 
 ors have to come at great expense to the 
 count-' rhff lU'U. Thus, Mr. Speaker, yon 
 have, for instance, in tbe district of Three 
 Rivers, the important county of Nicolet, 
 which is separated from the remainder 
 of tbe district of Three Rivers by the 
 River St. Ijawrence, and for many weeks 
 in the sprini! and autumn ttiese people 
 cannot cross over to Three Rivers to at- 
 tend to their law business. You have, 
 likewise, other regions in the county of 
 OttaVva which are similarly situated. I 
 am constantly requested to establish Cir- 
 cuit courts in these places, but with the 
 law as it now stands the Circuit court 
 cannot be established there, because not 
 more than one Circuit court can be estab,- 
 liahed in a county. Consequently I waa 
 right when I said that under my bill 
 there is more judicial decentralization 
 than there was under the old system. 
 
 WILL RKDICE C0ST9. 
 
 I now come to appeals from the Dis- 
 trict court. Complaints have been often 
 made that in our system of oriianization 
 of the law courts there are too many ap- 
 peals and too many degrees of appeal. 
 Thus, to give an example, at present a 
 case of $100 is taken out before the Su- 
 nerior court. This case goes into review. 
 Let us say that the judgment is reversed ; 
 the losing party can take tbe case into 
 appeal. Matters are such that in the 
 amallest case, in a case of $100, the costs, 
 when there are no witnesses, amount to 
 $()00, and may amount to $800, and all 
 tbia when ttie amtmnt at issue is only 
 $100. 1 say that we must protect the 
 suitors against themselves. The rate- 
 payers of the province of Quebec must be 
 protected aeainst the perhaps too strong- 
 ly developed desire which animates them 
 to ple&d and plead until their meana 
 are exhausted. That is why 1 pr/}- 
 
pose to reduce the number of appeals 
 and the number of dejjrees of appeal. 
 Mow, there is another drawback arising 
 from the too great number of a])pealti. It. 
 is what has happened in Montreal, v^ here 
 the Court of Appeals is so encumbered 
 that if a case is inscribed to-day fir hear- 
 ing it cannot be heard for two years. 
 The result of this is that the dislione«t 
 Buitor is protected when he wishes to 
 plead and to carry the case into appeal. 
 It I am well informed cases are taken 
 into appeal — a number of cases are taken 
 before tne Court of Queen's Bencli— 
 merely to obtain delay, to avoid payinir 
 juBt debts which are due. The Court of 
 Appeals for the District court would hv> 
 the Court of Ueview, consisting of three 
 judges of the Superior court as at present. 
 These cases would therefore be taken into 
 appeal before the Court of Review, which 
 would be a court entirely distinct from 
 and independent of the District court. 
 
 A WEAKNESS OK TUK .ri'DOES 
 
 At present it is often said — I do not 
 say rightly said — but the impression is 
 rather general, that the Court of Review 
 ib inore a court of confirmation than of 
 revision ; that is to say, that, owing to 
 I know not what chain of circumstances, 
 the judges of the Court of Review are 
 much more led to confirm the judgments 
 of their colleaaues than to reverse or 
 modify them. Now, when an appeal is 
 taken from the judgment of a District 
 court judue to the Court of Review, there 
 will no longer be amongst the members 
 of the various courts that fraternity, it 1 
 may so express myself, which exists 
 between those wlio compose the 
 same court. There will perhaps 
 not be more independence but, 
 at least, there will perhaps, be a little 
 more independent action when judg- 
 ments rendered by District court jndgea 
 have to be reversed or modified. It is 
 true that the Court of Appeal so consti- 
 tuted by the bill consists of only three 
 judges. But let us see what happens in 
 the province of Ontario, which is often 
 quoted as a model province and which, 
 in many respects, is admirably managed 
 in all public and judicial matters. In 
 Ontario the Court of Appeals for cases in 
 which the largest amount is at issue con- 
 sists of only four members, and I say that, 
 for cases of $400 or leas, a Court of Appeals 
 
 consisting of three judges constituting an 
 independent tribunal in snilicieni. 
 
 AN Al'l'KAL IKOM UEVIEW. 
 
 When the judgment of the Court of- 
 Review .yittin;,' in appeal from a judg- 
 ment of a District court is not unaiiimous, 
 an appeal may betaken from the Court 
 of Review to ttie Court of Quee'i's Bench. 
 [ admit tiiut I liad some hesitation in 
 introducing this amendment. I am not 
 yet de(;ide(l to state — I am not yet suf- 
 tic.iently convinced t > be able to say — that 
 this IS a wise provision, because I am of 
 the opinion of many authors who have 
 writ on on tiiis subject, and who say that 
 the number of appeals and the number 
 ot the deiirees of appeal should be re- 
 duced. But that IS a question on 
 which there may be a ditterence 
 of opinion, a ciuestion on which somethiug 
 may be said both for and against ; it is a 
 question wliicti I submit for the serious 
 consideration ot those who will have to 
 study the l>ill. I say that, not only in 
 virtue of tiie bill which I have ju.st ex- 
 plained will the appeals from the District 
 court render a service to suitors, but the 
 law will have ttie effect of greatly re- 
 ducing the number of appeals now taken 
 before the Court of Queen's Ben(;h, and 
 will give greater ethciency to the Court of 
 Queen's Bench, and will allow it to better 
 fill the role which it is called upon 
 to till in the judicial organization of 
 this province. 
 
 DISTUK'I' .lUnOES IN CRIMINAL MATTERS. 
 
 Now there is, in the constitution of the 
 District court, another very important 
 matter to which I specially call the at- 
 tention of the members of this House. 
 Accarding to section 47 of the bill tlie 
 District judges have jurisdiction through- 
 out the whole province ot tiuebec, but 
 exercise their ordinary judicial functions 
 in the districts assigned to them by their 
 commissions; and they hirther have all 
 the powers and exercise all the functions 
 mentioned in articles 2485 to 2544 
 inclusivelv of the Revised Sta- 
 tutes of the province of Quebec. 
 If you refer to section 107 you will see 
 this : " As district judges are appointed 
 in the different districts.the judges of the 
 sessions of the peace, district maeist- 
 rates and stipendarv magistrates shall 
 
 ■.\ 
 
titutiiif; an 
 im. 
 
 w. 
 
 Court of- 
 m a JiuIk- 
 
 tmiilUJMUH, 
 
 the Court 
 I'a Bench, 
 sittttion in 
 I am not 
 3t yet 8uf- 
 say— that 
 le I am of 
 who have 
 3 say that 
 B number 
 lid be re- 
 stion on 
 Jifierenoe 
 oniethiuff 
 )t ; it 18 a 
 e seriouH 
 have to 
 ; only in 
 ju8t ex- 
 3 iJistriot 
 , but the 
 ally re- 
 )w taken 
 nch, and 
 Court of 
 to better 
 upon 
 ation of 
 
 iTTERS. 
 
 »n of the 
 iportant 
 the at- 
 House. 
 bill the 
 hrough- 
 sec, but 
 inctions 
 )y their 
 lave all 
 inctions 
 •o 2544 
 Sta- 
 ^uebeo. 
 'ill see 
 pointed 
 i of the 
 maeist- 
 shall 
 
 cease to exercise their functions." That 
 is to aay, sir, that I i^ivQ the district 
 judges all the powers ot district mairist- 
 rates in criminal matters and all the 
 powers of judijea of ttie sessions of the 
 peace in (Juebee and Montre. ,1. A con- 
 siderable economy will lesult from this. 
 At pcesttnt the expenses ot the province 
 lor district majiistrate.", travelling expen- 
 ses, etc., for the salaries of judges 
 of the sessions of the peace amoMnt to 
 $oO,000. But what happens? Every 
 day I receive petitions and letters askint; 
 me to establish inauistrates' cou 'ta, ask- 
 ing me even to appoint other m ixistrates 
 for regions distant from the cIkJ' lieu, like 
 those I mentioned just now, and I have 
 no liesitation in saying that if the pre- 
 sent system continues, in threti or four 
 years we will beohliued to appoint other 
 diL.rict maitistrates, and to give them fur- 
 ther powers, to meet tiie ever increasing 
 wants of the public; and the expendi- 
 ture under this head will amount to $.")0,- 
 OdO per annum, at least, and will go on 
 increasing. There is also another con- 
 sideration, and that is that the present 
 salary of the district magistrates is not 
 sufhcient. 
 
 Ill- PAID SKRVA.VITS. 
 
 The salary of these magistrates who, 
 after all, are called upon to exercise im- 
 portant judicial functions in criminal 
 matters, is not sufficient. It is only 
 $1,200, and this has been so understood 
 that for seven or eiuht years it has been 
 necessary to indirectly increase the 
 salary of the District Magistrates by giv- 
 ing them travelling expenses of from ten 
 to live dollars a day, which greatly in- 
 creases the expense of the administration 
 of justice. 1 do not say that it was wrong 
 to do so. I believe, on the contrary, that 
 it is impossible to get a competent man 
 to perform judicial duties of such import- 
 ance for the small salary of $1,200 per 
 annum. We will therefore be assuredly 
 compelled to increase ttie salary of 
 these magistrates if they are to continue 
 to exist, or we will be obliged to replace 
 them by other magistrates or other 
 judges and I think the plan I propose is 
 the best. Now, if this expenditure is to 
 be $50,000 per annum, as it will soon be, 
 1 ask myself why the province of Quebec 
 should pay the expenditure in question. 
 We complain so mncu of the expense we 
 
 incur. We clamor so much for economy. 
 We endeavor by every means to reduce 
 our expenditure. Now, here is a favor- 
 able opportunity ot reducing the expense 
 of the administration of justice by $50,- 
 000; because, as everyone knows, sections 
 •Jli and 100 of the Britiah North America 
 act say that it is ttie Federal parliament 
 which appoints the judges and paya their 
 salary. 1 therefore ask myself why. in 
 view of that provision of the British 
 North America act, the province of Que- 
 bec should be obliged t(j pay $50,000 for 
 the administration ot criminal ju'itice. 
 Thus, those who are in favor of economy 
 cannot but say that, in this respect at 
 least, the bill is a good one. ( Hear, hear.) 
 
 PUTTING THE MEARI'RE INTO FORCE. 
 
 Now we have to consider how the bill 
 is to be put into etfect. In 1857, when 
 the great statesman whom everyone ad- 
 mires, Sir George Etienne Cartier, intro- 
 duced iiis measure for the reonranization 
 of the lav, courts, it was comparatively 
 easy to put the reform into practice. At 
 that time the question was to appoint 
 new judkjes, and, as everyone is aware, 
 candidates tor judgeships were not want- 
 ing any more in 1857 tnan they are now. 
 Consequently, it was rather easy to ap- 
 point new judges. At the present time 
 the question is to reduce the number of 
 Superior court judges from 30 to Ifi. II 
 we wish to put the law into execution we 
 would have to decapitate 14 of those gen- 
 lemen. Now, it is quite sure that they 
 will not submit to decapitation without 
 making considerable rt.nstance. It 
 is for that reason that one of 
 the provisions of the bill, sec. 112, says 
 that the act shall come into force by 
 proclamation ot the Lieutenant-Governor- 
 in-council. As soon as the proclamatio.i 
 is issued, this is what will happen: In 
 the districts of Montreal, (Quebec and 
 Sherbrooke, as well as in the district of 
 Terrebonne, whose judge will be trans- 
 ferred to Montreal, and in one of the dis- 
 tricto near Quebec, whose judge will be 
 transferred to Quebec, the law will come 
 into force at once. District judges will 
 have to be appointed at Quebec and 
 Montreal, who will at once commence to 
 perform their judicial duties. The dis- 
 trict judges at Montreal and ttie dis rict 
 jud^e at Quebec will replace the judges 
 of the SessionB as the Peace and exercise 
 
 ■"' 
 
the same fanctioni of tbe Judaea of the 
 Circuit court exercise.! at Montreal and 
 at (.iuehec, which functions arn, by 
 tbe bil), HsaiKned to tbe district 
 jiidKes. as well as in tbe district 
 of Terrebonne, and in one of tiie diptrictH 
 of tbe Quebec division, wliose jud^e nh ill 
 be transferred to ttie city of Quebec;. Tiie 
 'lumber ot jiidxes in Montreal will be 
 considerable fur some time ; but it must 
 not be imai^iued tiiat it will take loii<j; 
 for the law to come into force every- 
 where. Every one knows that, from or- 
 dinary causes, judges, like others, dis- 
 appeai pretty rapidly. Thus, the other 
 day, a judge baid to me: " I was ap- 
 po.nted judge seven years aifc, and al- 
 ready the majority of the judges are my 
 juniors." As only twelve judges will re- 
 main, the law will come into force pretty 
 soon. Mow, while the ten judk^es of the 
 Superior court sit in Montreal they will 
 not be obliged to go on circuit in many 
 districts, and this will, in (Consequence of 
 tbe increabed number of judges, remove 
 the congestion which now exists in the 
 Enquete and Merits court in Montreal, 
 whereconsiderable delay occurs at preser't 
 
 THE COritT OF (U'EKN's BENCH, 
 
 In virtue of the bill which I will intro- 
 duce, the (Jourt of Queen's Bench may 
 sit with the assistance of some of ttie 
 judges ad hoc or as assistant judges. As 
 this court may sit in two different places, 
 this will remove tbe congestion which ex- 
 ists in the Court of Queen's Bench, be - 
 cause if the Court of Queen's Bench were 
 to sit at Montreal for two years it would 
 barely be able to get rid of all the cases 
 now inscribed before that court. Now. 
 when in each districi a vacancy occurs 
 in the bench of the Superior 
 court, such vacancy shall not be 
 filled up, but the district shall at 
 once come under the operation of the law 
 which appoints district judees. Thus let 
 us take, for instance, thedistrictof Mont- 
 magny. Let us suppose that the judge 
 in the district of Montmagny, for one 
 reason or another, ceases to exercise his 
 functions there, either because he is re- 
 moved by death or is promoted to a 
 higher position. Immediately, under the 
 law, tbe federal Government will be ob- 
 liged lo appoint a district judge for Mont- 
 magny, and the Superior court of Mont- 
 magny si all be served by one of the 
 
 judges of the Superior court residing in 
 (Quebec. Meanwhile, ai soon as tiie pro- 
 clamation is issued, the principle of the 
 law comes Into force evervwtiere ttirough- 
 out the province, so that tfie jn'ites 
 of the Superior court now v 'st- 
 ing and exercising their functions 
 in each district shall continue 
 to exercise their functions as judges of 
 ihe Superior court for cases of $400 over, 
 and ttie district judges shall have juris- 
 diction for all cases under $40(», except as 
 regards the functions of distri(;t magis- 
 trates, which shall remain the same 
 until district judges are appointed. 
 
 Mr. Stephens — Why not give District 
 court judges the jurisdiction of Superior 
 court judges .' 
 
 Hon. Mr. Casj'rain— My honorable 
 friend asks me why I do not make of the 
 c.strict judge a Superior court judge 
 with all ° the jurisdiction re(|uired to an 
 amount of, let us say, $100,000 ,()()(). But, 
 Mr. Speaker, the principle of the bill is 
 just the opposite. If the idea ot my hon- 
 orable friend were to prevail the law 
 would have to be left as it now stands. 
 
 Mr. Stephens — Then you make two 
 judges instead ot one. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Casgrain— No. not at all ; not 
 for the same object. That is to say, that 
 there will be in each district a district 
 judee who will judae cases up to $400. 
 out there will he sixteen Superior court 
 judges who will judkte the cases of over 
 $400, and these judges will be obliged to 
 go on circuit, as it is called, that is to say, 
 go to the cliff lie^l ot each district for the 
 trial and hearing of cases and rendering 
 judgment therein. 
 
 MAJORITY OF CASES UNDEP. $400. 
 
 I would observe, in passing, that cases 
 for over $400 do not represent one-fifth of 
 the work of the judges, while cases of 
 $400 and under represent four-tifths ot 
 the work. I give tour-fifths of the work 
 to thw district judges, whose number is 
 greater ; on the other hand for cases over 
 $400, which represent only one-fifth of 
 the work, there are sixteen Superior court 
 judges. Otherwise wh would be obliged, 
 if we followed the idea of the 
 honorable member, to appoint a 
 Superior court jndge in each district. 
 Now, in some districts there is not work 
 for more than two months in the year, 
 while m other districts there is work for 
 
 the whol 
 on the Of 
 for cHMes 
 while, on 
 must be 
 over, a ( 
 shall be 
 (iourt. 
 
 I'UO' 
 
 But I 
 provituon 
 isdictioii 
 moment 
 and dece 
 cases un( 
 ent were 
 Hen of th€ 
 be in futu 
 as it a(;tu 
 ed to me 
 daily bef 
 tory exce 
 ness in cl 
 summar) 
 ing to do 
 the most 
 prerogati 
 and lesse 
 in ary pr 
 neverthel 
 accuse m 
 question > 
 clare in s 
 ters that 
 are enum 
 trict judy 
 appeal 
 (juestion 
 more the 
 of Proced 
 what a d 
 this act \ 
 ing tbe ( 
 A voic« 
 district j 
 and will 
 Hon. J 
 before tt 
 view anc 
 ; now com 
 ingtoth 
 the Code 
 
 I have 
 general 
 changes 
 
 X 
 
residing in 
 as tLie pro- 
 liple of the 
 re throiij?h- 
 Stie jii'tkes 
 ow V -st- 
 functioDS 
 oontinne 
 ijU'lKes of 
 r $400 over, 
 fiave juris- 
 , except as 
 ri(;t iiiagis- 
 the same 
 ited. 
 
 e District 
 f Superior 
 
 honorable 
 ake of the 
 >nrt judge 
 lired to an 
 ,(»()(). But, 
 the bill is 
 t my hon- 
 1 the law 
 '' stands, 
 malie two 
 
 at all ; not 
 say, that 
 a district 
 p to $400, 
 srior court 
 es of over 
 obliged to 
 t is to say, 
 ct for the 
 renderingr 
 
 ;400. 
 
 A\a,t cases 
 ae-filth of 
 I cases of 
 •fifths of 
 the work 
 umber is 
 3a8es over 
 e- fifth of 
 »rior court 
 
 obliged. 
 
 of the 
 point a 
 
 district, 
 not work 
 the year, 
 work for 
 
 d 
 
 the whole year and more. This is why, 
 on the one hand, the number ot judges 
 for canes under $400 must be increased, 
 while, on the other hand, a sne(rial court 
 must be established for caHes of $400 and 
 over, a court which, sitting in review, 
 shall be a court ot appeals f jr the District 
 (fourt. 
 
 I'KOVISIO.N you SlMMAItY MATTKRH. 
 
 But I was forgetting a very important 
 provitMon of the l^w referring to the jur- 
 isdiction of district courts. I spoke a 
 moment ago of judicial centralization 
 and decentrali/.ation, and I said ttiat all 
 cases under $400, whicii, up to tlie pres- 
 ent were pleaded and judged at the rlnf 
 //<;« of the district, would so continue to 
 be i.nfuture.Butttie answer may be made, 
 as it actually was in a memorial addres.s- 
 «d to me: '• There are cases which come 
 daily before the courts, motions, peremp- 
 tory exceptions, defenses en droit, busi- 
 ness in chambers, writs of prerouatives, 
 summary affairs, etc. What are you go- 
 ing to do about them ?" 1 admit that in 
 tlie mo.st of the rural districts, writs of 
 prerogatives, (luestions between lessors 
 and lessees, actions unde" the law of .sum- 
 mary procedure are pretty rare ; but 
 nevertheless, in order tliat nobody may 
 accuse me ot at all encroaching upon this 
 question of judicial ceutrahzation, I <le- 
 clare in section 48 tfiat in all these mat- 
 ters that I liave mentioned, and which 
 are enumerated in this section the dis- 
 trict judge h^s jurisdiction, subject to 
 appeal to the Superior court. This 
 (jiiestion is rather one of procfldure, and 
 more the subject of an article of the Code 
 of Procedure. It may therefore be seen 
 what a disadvantage it would be to pass 
 this act without at tnesame time adopt- 
 ing the Code of Procedure. 
 
 A voice — Insumaiary affairs will the 
 district judge have absolute jurisdiction, 
 and will there be an appeal ? ' 
 
 Hon. Mr. Oasurain-^The appeal will be 
 before the Superior court sitting in re- 
 view and before the Court oi Appeal as 
 now constituted, or before botti, accord- 
 ing to the rales which at present exist in 
 the Code of Procedure. 
 
 CHANGES SINCE LAST YRAR. 
 
 I have indicated so far, in making the 
 general expose of the bill, the principal 
 changes which are proposed in the mea- 
 
 sure that I have to present. But to en- 
 able the House to better understand and 
 more fully seize tiie difference between 
 ttie meHHure originally submitted, and 
 that which I will have the tionor lo lay 
 before tne House, and in order to 8hr>w 
 ttie (;are that I have taken to listen to the 
 complaints aiid representations that have 
 been made to me, I believe ttiat 
 it will be wfll to give in a succinct and 
 detinue manner the changes which exist 
 between tlie oriifinai bill and that now 
 submitted. There is first and foremost 
 in the present bill, a»4 1 have already de- 
 clared, a ctmiplete elimination ot every- 
 thing regarding tlie administration of 
 criminal justice. In last vear's bill, at 
 the siiirgestion of parties who were well 
 informed, and wlio had at heart the per- 
 fect adm iration of justice, the pro- 
 vince ha( oeen divided into six dis- 
 tri ;ts for the purpose of the ad- 
 ministration of criminal justice. But 
 the remark has been made to me 
 that It would not be just to bring 
 witnesses from a distance lo a c.'^oflieu 
 for a criminal case, on account ot the cost 
 and ttie inconveiiience, and that neither 
 would it be just to drait a criminal from a 
 distance to a chef lieu in another coun- 
 ty, there to stand his trial, where he 
 might not perhaps be judged dv his 
 peers. 1 understood the justice of this 
 observation, and that the bill in this res- 
 pect M'as erroneous, and this year 1 liave 
 left the administration of criminal justice 
 exactly as it was under the old law. That 
 is the hrst change contained in the new 
 bill and a very considerable one it ie. 
 
 .lUDGES AND TERMS OP THE COURTS. 
 
 Now the complaint was also made that 
 according to the bill of last year the 
 terms of the court were fixed, not by 
 proclamation of the Lieutenant-Governor- 
 in-council, as proposed by the present 
 bill, but by a rule of practice made by 
 the judges themselves. It was said, with 
 some r'^ason, that the judges, not always 
 consulting the public needs, might fix 
 the terms to suit their own convenience 
 rather than that of litigant''. This objec- 
 tion is aotrong one, and in this year's bill 
 it is provided that tne terms of all the 
 courts will be fixed by proclamation of 
 the Lieutenant-Governor-in-council. It 
 was also said in last year's bill 
 that tbo district judges would be ap- 
 
 X 
 
10 
 
 
 pointed from amongst the lawyers of not 
 leas than live years' practice. It was 
 thought by Botiiethat tliis was not a miffi- 
 cient iiuuraiitee ot tlie (]ualilicatii)n8 of 
 men cliarged witu important judicial 
 functions, and it is now provided that ten 
 years ot practice must beoiieof the (|uali- 
 tications required of those lawyers who 
 art to be named judges of the District 
 courts. Another notable change , nd one 
 wliicli rtlaies narticnlarly to pn^edure, 
 is that which I expUtmed a moment atro, 
 namely, tuat the Di '"ict court judge has 
 all the powers of a S.Lperior court judge 
 in chambers ; that it is to say that tie 
 may decide all questions between lessors 
 and lessees, all those under the act of 
 summary procedure, wi Us ot prerogative, 
 in a word all the (mestions that I had ^lie 
 hon<ir of mentioning to the House a 
 moment ago. 
 
 JJISTRICr OF ST. KRANtlS. 
 
 There will be sixteen judges of the Su- 
 perior court instead of fifteen. There 
 will be ten at Montreal, five at Quebec 
 and one at Sherbrooke. It was con- 
 sidered that the district ot St. Francis 
 was of such importance, and that so 
 much business was transa(!ted there, that 
 it was necessary to leave a judge there. 
 And besides, Mr. Speaker, the bill pro- 
 vides that when there is too much work 
 for a judge in any district, another judge 
 by proclamation or the Lieutenant- 
 Governor-in-council may be sent by the 
 Chief Justice to sit there. The number 
 of District court judges for the city of 
 Montreal is also increased. Another im- 
 portant change that 1 have already point- 
 ed out to the House is this: 
 That in virtue of article \i)r>4 
 of the Code of Civil Procedure as amend- 
 ed by section 75 of the present 
 bill, the District court, in whatever 
 locality it sits, hns jurisdiction up to the 
 sum of $400. Last year wesaid that out- 
 side ot the chef lieu the court would only 
 have jurisdiction to the amount ot $100. 
 This year we increase it to $400 wher- 
 ever it sits, even thouith it mayNae in two 
 different localities in the same county, in 
 order to give courts to tlie regions of 
 which I spoke a moment ago, where 
 they may bring their judicial atl'airs 
 with the economy which they have a 
 right to expect. There is, further, an ap- 
 peal from the judgments of the District 
 
 court, i-ast year we said that the judg- 
 ment of the Court of Review would be 
 final and without appeal, when pro- 
 nounced upon an appeal from a judg- 
 ment of the District court ; but now. 
 whe- the judiiment of the Court of Re- 
 view* is not unanimous, the appellant 
 may go to the court of Queen's Bench. 1 
 have already pointed out this change. 
 
 CITV AN!) Iii:RAL .lUJXiKS. 
 
 And, finally, the last change in the bill 
 has been made at tLe sunnestion of the 
 Bar ot Quehe(t, and also of ttiat of certain 
 lawyers and judges who have written me 
 on the subject. I^ast year, in the case 
 of the death of one of the Que- 
 bec or Montreal judges, or of his disap- 
 pearance for any cause, he was neces- 
 sarily replaced by one of the country 
 judires — a judtje from the rural districts. 
 That IS to say that if, for instance, a 
 judge died at (.Quebec, a judge was taken 
 from one ot the districts ot the Quebec 
 division and brought in the city. 
 It has been represented to me that 
 for the reason that will be under- 
 stood by those who are familiar with the 
 administration of justice in this province, 
 it was not altogether just that the Fed- 
 eral Government should be forced to 
 name certain gentlemen judges in the 
 Cities. 1 have faili;.i I'l with this sugges- 
 tion, and now, when th«. judges of Que- 
 bec or of Montreal will disappear, the 
 Federal Government may name the one 
 that they may deem proper to fill the 
 gap. Besides, Mr. Speake»-, in thinking 
 of It a little, 1 am not sure that I am 
 able, under the constitution that governs 
 us, to impose upon the Federal Govern- 
 ment the obligation of naming such or 
 such judge to such or such locality. ; ... 
 
 OBiECi'iONS TO Tiui: niLi.. "■ 'i 
 
 I now come to tlie most interesting 
 portion — if I may say that there is an 
 interesting part — of my speech. It is 
 that which concerns the objections made 
 to the bill. These objections were natur- 
 ally based on tlie bill which was present- 
 ed to the House last session, which was 
 that which was given publicity to. It 
 could not be otherwise. People could 
 only criticize what they had be- 
 fore them. The objections made were 
 of two kinds. There was a general 
 
11 
 
 iiieaiorials sent 
 that all the 
 made upon it 
 
 objection to the principle of the bill, and 
 there were objections to certain details. 
 1 will say, without, 1 believe, flaHerin^ 
 myself too much, that I have replied to 
 all the objections of details that are made 
 to the hili. 1 will go even further and 
 say that J have incorporated in the bill 
 all the sujigestions contained in the 
 memorials which have been sent rae by 
 the difl'erent soctions of the Bar opposed 
 to the measure. The bill has been 
 corrected ; it has been amended upon 
 the strength of the 
 me, and I believe 
 remarks ttiat have beei 
 have been taken into consideration. Now, 
 the vireat (juestion, that upon which op- 
 ponents ofthe measure have fallen back 
 in order to tight the bill, — the question 
 above all upon which the opposition is 
 made, is this : — They say that judical de- 
 centralization was established in 1857, 
 and that this decentralization ought to 
 continue ; that my bill destroys it ; that 
 it strikes a blow at the principle of de- 
 centralization, that it overthrows the 
 tribunals of the country and unites in the 
 large cities the diti'erent judicial juris- 
 dictions, and that in conse- 
 (juence the measure is not acceptable to 
 the litigants of the province, and 
 alcove all to those of them who live in the 
 rural districts. 1 believe that after the 
 explanation that I have made of the 
 general plan of the bill, nobddv will any 
 longer be of the opinion that I am strik- 
 ing a blow at the principie of judicial de- 
 centralization. 1 have proved that the 
 Superior court will sit. according to the 
 bill in question, in each chef lieu of dis- 
 trict where it now sits, and I draw the 
 attention of the membc-s to this fact. 
 Finally, I say this : Judicial decentral- 
 ization does not consist in the residence or 
 non-residence of the judges. Decentrali- 
 zation does not consist in the fact that 
 you send a judge to reside in each dis- 
 trict. The system may possess some ad- 
 vantages, but, Mr. Speaker, iudi(;ial de- 
 centralization consists in the fact that the 
 judge goes, so to speak, to the home of 
 the pleader, visits his tiome, to hear there 
 his complaints and the claims that lie 
 has to prefer. 
 
 DECENTBAHZATXON CONSISTS IN niSSEMINA- 
 
 TIN(i 
 
 as much as possible, in all parts of the 
 province, the administration of justice. 
 
 Decentralization consists in tha hearing 
 of cases in the chef lieu of the dis- 
 trict of the litigant, in the chef 
 lieu of his county, in the par- 
 ish ill which he resides, even if 
 that is possible. This is what should be 
 understood by judicial decentralizaiion. 
 JSow, it is not because I say in the hill 
 that the sixteen judges of the Superior 
 court shall reside in ttie city of Montreal, 
 or of Quebec or of Sherhrooke, tfiat I in- 
 terfere with the principle of judicial de- 
 centralization. iN'o. because 1 respect the 
 principle of the bill of IS")?, in virtue of 
 which it is said tiiat the judges must 
 hear cases, fiear witnesses, hear tfie 
 pleadings and render judgment in the 
 chef lieu of each district. 1 go 
 further. Not only will we nave a 
 Superior court in each chef lieu 
 of a district or county, l)ut 
 in large counties like Ottawa, Terrebonne, 
 Nicolet and Rimouski we will have dis- 
 trict courts which will have jurisdiction 
 up to the sum of $400. And i ask those 
 who are in favor of ju<licial decentraliza- 
 tion to aid me in pronouncing in favnr of 
 tiie bill, if they are really in favor of the 
 dissemination of the administration of 
 justice in all parts of the province that 
 have a right to it. There are interesting 
 tigures to be given on this question of 
 judicial decentralization and of the 
 residence of the judges. There are to- 
 day thirty judge*, of the Superior court 
 in the province of Quebec. The residence 
 of ten of these judges is fixed at Montreal, 
 as everybody knows, and the residence 
 of four others is fixed at Quebec. There 
 remain then sixteen judges for the 
 eighteen other districts. Now the follow- 
 ing districts have no resident judges, 
 namely, 'I'errebonne, Joliette, Beauce. 
 Montmagny, Himouski, Saguenay and 
 Richelieu, in all seven. There are then 
 seven districts whicti have no resident 
 judge at all, and there are only eleven 
 districts that have resident judges, and 
 again, of these eleven, my friend. Mr. 
 Globensky, who has written such inter- 
 ei^fing letters on the question, says that 
 five of these judges sit almost continu- 
 ouslv in Mortreal. There only remain, 
 then, under the operation of the actual 
 law, six judj'es who reside actually and 
 effectively in their respective districts. 
 
12 
 
 CASKS IN I'OINT. 
 
 Thus, then, Mr. Speaker, in requirinK 
 these jiidnes oi the ynperior court to re- 
 side at (Quebec, at Montreal and at Sher- 
 brooke, i do not destroy what is to-day 
 existinj; and i do not lay a sacrilejiious 
 hand upon the principle of judicial de- 
 centralization, because it people are satis- 
 fied with the present system — only six 
 judges residiny; eJl'ecti"ely in their dis- 
 tricts — and consei|uently it people do not 
 complain of it, it is a sijin that Judicial 
 decentralization does n.t essentially con- 
 sist in the residence of the judges at the 
 <:licf l.im of their districts. 
 
 Mr. Tellier— In Joliette and in Riche- 
 lieu, as a matter of fact, the jud^e does 
 not remain in the district, though the 
 law obliges him to reside there. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Casgrain—l am glad to hear 
 the remark of my learned friend from 
 Joliette, but 1 will ask him if he is able 
 to imagine a law whicli will force the 
 judae to reside eU'ectively m a district. 
 Can he imagine a law witii which the 
 judge will comply ? It is well known that 
 in the case of ceitain judges — I do not 
 speak of ttiese existing to-day, I speak of 
 those who have disappeared from the 
 scene — an attempt was made to com- 
 pel them to remain in their district. 
 Weil, what happened? They rented a 
 house in the district in which they should 
 reside and put their name on the door, 
 but they lived for the greater part of the 
 year either at t^uebec or Montreal. The 
 law, as it at present stands, obliges the 
 judge to reside in his district ; but ever 
 since it has been in our statutes it has 
 been a dead letter and incapable of being 
 applied in practice. Those who preceded 
 lis have tried to apply this law. but they 
 never Succeeded, and 1 don't think that 
 any one ever will succeed in doing so, be- 
 cause it is one of ttiose laws which, al- 
 though they may be written in the sta- 
 tutes, no one can ever expect to see ob- 
 served. 
 
 A voice—" Then it will only amount to 
 the same thing." 
 
 WILL GIVK RURAL LAWVKK8 A niANCE. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Capgrain— It will not amount 
 tothe samething with my law, and forthis 
 reason: That the judges of the Superior 
 co\irt in rural districts tell us to-day : — 
 " We have not much work in our dis- 
 
 tricts, while there is much work in Mont- 
 real, and, besides, we usually come from 
 the great cities, from Montreal or 
 from Quebec." As a matter of 
 fact, it IS true that for one reason 
 or another the judges of the 
 Superior court tiave been chosen 
 from Montreal and (Quebec. But I take 
 this ground. Judges of the District court 
 receiving a salary of $3,000. being named 
 specially for rural districts, and being 
 chosen generallv from among the mem- 
 bers of the Bar of rural districts, would 
 have every interest in remaining in their 
 districts, because their salaries would not 
 be large enough to allow them to live at 
 Quebec or Montreal, and in addition to 
 this their tastes and their habits will 
 cause them to live In the centre to 
 which they have been appointed. 
 There will no longer exist the pretext 
 which to-day permits those who do not 
 wish to remain in their districts to go to 
 sit at Montreal or at Quebec. The pre- 
 text that the Superior courts are encum- 
 bered will vanisf), because I pretend th- 
 after the adjption of this bill there will 
 no longer be any encumbrance either at 
 Quebec or at Montreal, neither before the 
 Superior court nor before the Court of 
 Appeals, and thus there will be no 
 lontjer this pretext for country judges 
 to go. 1o Quebec or Montreal lo sit. 1 
 know \ hat to-day it is Eot only a pretext 
 but a weinhty reason and one cannot 
 attack these judges because five or six of 
 them sit at Montreal when they should 
 reside in their district. They are called 
 there by the Chief Justice and they are 
 almost obliged to jjo, they must go for the 
 despatch of business. This reason, then, 
 will no longer exist. You will have in 
 each district what you cannot have at 
 present, that is to say a resident judge 
 who will judgeallcasesbrought before him 
 
 COMPLAINTS A(iAINS'r THE PRESENT SYSTKM. 
 
 It is also said, Mr. Spepker. that there 
 is no complaint against the present sys- 
 tem, that no one complains of it and that 
 no one asks a change in it. I have heard 
 this reasoning used by men who were 
 certainly capable of criticizing the bill, 
 who by their legal knowledge could study 
 it with advartage. and who by thesugges- 
 tions they made might improve it : but 1 
 must say that-. I cannot understand how 
 this assertion couki be made. Since I 
 
 have beJ 
 liiive al| 
 tlie adm| 
 sent can 
 of Monti 
 said tl 
 however! 
 in 18f 
 the wai 
 iiaving 
 always 
 been anil 
 upon la\ 
 statutes 
 plained 
 plaints, 
 real whi( 
 and wh 
 iif the 
 complain 
 the adn 
 said that 
 of Civil 
 fault of 
 not have 
 are excel 
 Quebec, 
 are not 
 example, 
 nay that 
 what mei 
 if you la 
 where, y( 
 than th 
 Montreal 
 judges 
 they mi 
 personall 
 what is 
 profess tl 
 of Montn 
 anyone r 
 do more 
 Montreal 
 are alw£ 
 bills we 1 
 ed bv th 
 
13 
 
 liave been in the House, since 1880, I 
 liave always heard complaints against 
 t tie administration of justice as at pre- 
 sent carried on, especially in the district 
 of Montreal. 1 have always heard it 
 said that the piesent system, 
 liowever well it innjht have served 
 in 1857, did not now meet 
 tlie wants oi the people or of those 
 having business before the courts. 1 have 
 always heard tliis said. The law has 
 been amended almost every session. Law 
 upon law has been introduced into the 
 statutes to improve the position com- 
 piamed of. To-dav there are still com- 
 plaints. There are newspapers in Mont- 
 real which are not favorable to the bill, 
 and which said at ttie beginning 
 of the session that there were 
 complaints and serious ones against 
 the administration of justice. Some 
 said that it was the fault of the Code 
 of Civil Procedure ; others that it was the 
 fault of the judges. They may or may 
 not have been right, but I say that there 
 are excellent judges at Montreal and at 
 (Quebec. There are perhaps some who 
 are not what they should be. Take, for 
 example, the ten judges o; Montreal. 1 
 say that they are a good average and 
 wliat men in general are, and I sav that 
 if you take ten men, 1 don't care from 
 where, you will not find a better average 
 than that of the ten judges of 
 Montreal. I believe that certain 
 judges do not do all the work 
 they might do. I do not Know this 
 personally, myself, 1 am only repeating 
 what is usually said. Nevertheless, 1 
 profess the ureatest respect for the judges 
 of Montreal, and I believe that whatever 
 anyone may say no ten other men would 
 do more work than the ten judges of 
 Montreal. The judges are men. and men 
 are always meu whatever may be the 
 bills we may introduce and have adopt- 
 ed by this House. 
 
 MONTREAL'S JNTKRKST. 
 
 As to the Civil Procedure, the bill, as 1 
 have said, is already distributed. We 
 will try to remedy, as far as possible, the 
 abuses which actually exist. But with 
 the beet code of <ivil procedure in the 
 world you could not inse the disap- 
 itearance of the trouble that exists 
 at Montreal, namely, the obstruc- 
 tion of the courts. There are 
 
 not enough judges at Montreal, 
 while in other parts of the province there 
 are far too many. Now some one may 
 say: " You have no right to legislate only 
 for the city of Montreal. Yuu must not 
 take into consideration only the wants of 
 the great metiopolis^of Canada, whatever 
 its importance." To a certain point I 
 differ from tho?e who think thus. I do 
 not mean to say that the leijislation of 
 this country should be subordinated to 
 the interests of Montreal, but 1 do say 
 that Montreal, from a financial stand- 
 point, from a commercial standpoint, from 
 the point of view of the population 
 and from the point of view of the judicial 
 business of the country has a right to all 
 the solicitude of the Le. islature. Now, 
 sir, above all. from the point of view of 
 the administration of justice, I say that 
 we are obliged, if not to subordinate the 
 administration ot justice of all the pro- 
 vince to that of the city of Montreal, at 
 least to give to the city of Montreal tne 
 part which she deserves by the import- 
 ant position which she occupies in judi- 
 cial annals. I will give the House some 
 figures which will show to what a degree 
 our soIicitiK'e for the city of Montreal in 
 this important affair should actuate us. 
 
 WHKUE l.EHAl. liDSINlCSS CENTRES. 
 
 Here are statistics for the past ten 
 years made, not by persons under the 
 control of the Government, but by ofiicers 
 who are absolutely free to do their duty, 
 and who are obliged to do it. During the 
 last ten years there were issued from the 
 Superior court for the whole of the prov- 
 ince ot Quebec 52,881 writs. Thus in all 
 the province of Quebec there were issued 
 from the Superior court 52.331 writs. 
 Now how many do you think out of this 
 number were issued from the Superior 
 court of Montreal? I was surprised 
 and astonished at the number 
 of writs issued from the Su- 
 perior court of Montreal, and this 
 inclines me more than ever to say that 
 I should come to the aid of the city 
 which sutlers the most from the existing 
 state of affairs. The numbor of writs is- 
 sued from the Superior court of Montreal 
 was 29,2()0. That is to say, that more 
 than half the writs of all the province of 
 Quebec were issued from the Superior 
 court of Montreal. Now. let us take the 
 judgments in contested cases. Tho Su* 
 
14 
 
 perior court .iu(1«;ment8 in contested cases 
 for the province of (Quebec amount to lii- 
 220. Now for tbe city ot Montreal 
 alone, in the di8tri(!t of Mntitreal, out of 
 this total number of 1(1,220 judjrments 
 there are 7'70S. That is to say, aaain, 
 the half of the judgments rendered in the 
 province of Quebei; in contested cases. 
 Now it is easily seen that if in certain 
 districts the judees have hardly one, two 
 or three nmnths' work to do a year, the 
 julaes of Montreal district are so over- 
 crowded with work that they cannot do 
 it, all and are obliyed to call to their as- 
 tiistatire the judges of '-he surrounding 
 country districts anrl even to call the 
 judges of coinitry districts lower down in 
 the nverthan Quebec, and theobstrnction 
 issuch in theCourtof Appeals at Montreal, 
 that, as I said a moment ago, if you 
 to day inscribe a caee at the (Jourt of 
 Appeals at Montreal you would be ob- 
 lit;ed to wait two years before beinir able 
 to plead it. I say that this state of tbintiS 
 cannot continue to exist. If you inscribe 
 a case at Eiuiuetes ^t Merites at Mont- 
 real to-day,— b.v this procedure which 
 ought to give you judgment as quickly 
 as possible — you are obliged, if our infur- 
 mation is corre<'t, to w ait nine months 
 before yon can have your case heard. 
 
 IMI'UOVICMI'N'T DEMAXDEU. 
 
 I ask you. can we tolerate such a sys- 
 tem in this advanced aee ? la this the 
 despatch which litigation pui.st expect in 
 our province of (Quebec ? I ask myself if 
 we are not much more behind the times 
 tlian k11 the countries surrounding us, 
 and the European countries too on this 
 question ? I say that these abuses and 
 this obstruction which exist in Montreal 
 cannot continue, and, as long as I am 
 Attorney-General, in view of the import- 
 ance of tho city of Montreal, I will worn 
 with all my might to make our 
 judicial system the equal of others, 
 the equal of the system of the surround- 
 ing countries. Now, sir, I declare that tor 
 twenty years there have been complaints 
 of the system which at present exitsts in 
 this province, anr". iiot only in Montreal 
 but all oyer the province I repeat that at 
 least in a dozen districts there are judges 
 who have not more than three months' 
 work a year, while in the districts of 
 Montreal, Quebec and Sherbrooke, the 
 judges have more to do than they can ac- 
 
 complish. This is still another thin<, 
 which mupt not continue to exist. Th.\ 
 inecjuality in the distrihution ot work ih 
 an anomaiv which whoever is solicitous 
 for the best administration of justice 
 in this country cannot permit to continue 
 
 PAST KICI'HKSKNTATlONS l\ I-OINT. 
 
 In 1880 Judge I'agnuelo, who was not 
 then a judge, who, consequently, had not 
 then ttie interest in the matter that 
 miglit be attributed to him to-day, in 
 • oinmon with th9 other judges, wrote in 
 letters which have remained famous, 
 that for ten vears past the existing sys- 
 tem had been complained of, and he pro- 
 posed another system, he proposed a re 
 form in the juuicial adminifjt''- -•> of the 
 country. T«.en in 1880, th» .ad al- 
 
 ready existed for ten yea.n and he de- 
 manded a remedy. In 1880 ttie Bar of 
 Montreal it.self ^mssed a resolution ask- 
 ing the two (Jovernments, those of Ot- 
 tawa and (Quebec, to modify tne present 
 system, because itdiinot give satisfac- 
 tion. A committee w. formed to meet 
 the memher.s of the' local and Federal 
 Governments, but fo, sor e reason 
 or other, the Governments did not agree, 
 aud the prop'sition fell to the 
 ground. In 1882 Mr. Larue, whom we all 
 knew, wrote some letters in the same 
 sense. In 188S a commission consisting 
 of Mr. Justice Jette and Messrs. Lorrain 
 and Weir said what follows in their re- 
 port to the Prime Minister and the 
 Attorney-General, and I would draw the 
 special attention of the honorable mem- 
 bers to this report, which is very well 
 drawn up. It will be seen at the 22nd 
 page of this report tliat the commissioners 
 insist on judicial reorganization, and I 
 quote it in reply to those who said 
 that no complaints had been made and 
 that no reform had been demanded, and 
 for the benefit of those who say that all 
 is running smoothly and that no one is 
 complaining of the existing system, I 
 quote it in order to prevent my passing 
 as an innovator who wishes to reform 
 everything, for t he pleasuro of reforming, 
 and in order to prove that 1 am sustain- 
 ed by authorities, 'vho are authorities 
 both for myself and for the House. 
 
 WHAT A COMMISSION POl'N'I). 
 
 This is what the report of Hon. 
 
 iidge 
 \ eir us 
 
 ■• It will 
 i/iillou 111 
 coiiiraryl 
 cNcelleiitl 
 
 il It Inf 
 
 II exlstl 
 oitUiadoif 
 
 " OooctI 
 coiinclllol 
 " ilepundJ 
 siaulzaticf 
 
 '• WilliT 
 lerent. 
 pcrlei'lioJ 
 
 •• The pi 
 gunizallDL 
 J 1181 Ice ar 
 Hiiiounl < 
 ilitious, II 
 iiir all CDi 
 
 "This 
 rank ol 
 
15 
 
 iidge Jfctte and Messrs. 
 V eir eays at page 22 : — 
 
 Lorrain and 
 
 " It will be said, perhaps, thatjudlclal orgiin- 
 i/aliou haK u<i (;r)unectijD with procedure. The 
 cDiiirHry isthecaiso. Eveu if the |)r()c('diir<! wt-re 
 I'Nci'lleiit ; if the ornanizatioii which should 
 
 It it Into execufion is dcfuirtive, the evil will 
 II exist, or rather the remedy will be iu- 
 fiflcaclous 
 
 " Good dmlnistratlon," .'ays Mr. Bertrand, 
 cimncillor to the Court of Appeals, of Fari.s, 
 "depends iQ a great nicaNuru upon theorgan- 
 giialzat ion ol judicial bodies 
 
 " With most, natioMS this organization is dif- 
 terent. With all theie are complnliits of lui- 
 pi'rle(aion8 and abuses. -11 demand reforms 
 
 •■ The problem to be solved is to rind an or- 
 g;inlzatlon which wiiile respectini^ the rules Ot 
 JiiBllce and e(iiiity can dlsi;o;j,e of the greatest, 
 aniountol business in the Vltnplest, mosiejipt 
 ditious, most, etiiclent and liast costly manner 
 lor all concerned 
 
 "This rer>r^anl>.atlon. then, is in the front 
 rank of > ms to be introduced." 
 
 ilere, theu, is a report wbich eman- 
 ates neither from the Government nor 
 irom myself, but from a body of tlis- 
 tiniiuiahed men completely independent 
 oC ttie Government, and which says:— 
 "This reorjjanizatio . then, is in the front 
 rank of the refc ois to he introduced." 
 Already the late Mr. Justice T. .1. J. 
 Loranger, i the j 'port presented in 18S2 
 by the first commissinn appointed for the 
 consolidatien of the (' de of Procedure, 
 insisted upon this capital point. Mr. 
 l'a>innelo in his excellent work entitled : 
 "Letter on .ludicial Reform," published 
 ill 1S80, had also pointed out this reor- 
 ganization as necessary. Hon. Mr. La- 
 flamme and Mr. Edmond Larue, in 
 brochures published in 1S82, eijually 
 mention it as the compeer with reform in 
 the Code of Procedure. Tliere is no doubt 
 
 that of all the reforms which we may at- 
 tempt these, widely combined, would pro- 
 duce the most considerable rosulta." 
 
 MU. lAll. AVMK's VIKWS. 
 
 1 cannot better terminate these re- 
 marks tlan in supportins; myself upon 
 the authority of an eminent man who has 
 recently been taken from us. 1 mean 
 tlie Hull. Mr. Uodolphe Latiamme, who 
 in 1SS2 wrote on the (juestion ot judicial 
 reform. 1"he opinion of Mr. LaHamme is 
 one tiiat everybody respects. As a lawyer 
 hf, WHS at the hea<l of liis profession. I 
 had lately char^jed him to represent in 
 Knaiand the interests of the province of 
 (iuel)ei' in a case of the highest import- 
 ance which he pleaded with so much of 
 ability, so much of science, so much of 
 zeal, that Sir Horace Davy, one 
 of the most distinguished mem- 
 bers of the English Ear, paid me the 
 compliment of tfianking me for having 
 sent Hon. Mr. Lallamine to give him the 
 assistance of hi.s legal talents. To-day 
 the eminent lawyer, the frank friend, so 
 loyal and large hearted, tiie former 
 minister of justico and attorney-general 
 ol the Dominion, has disappeared, and 1 
 profit by the occasion of so important a 
 (question as that which 1 am nowdiscus.s- 
 iiig, and which he had so well studied, to 
 render to his talents, to his merits, and 
 above all, to the act of courage an.l of 
 faith which illuminated his death, a pub- 
 lic and solemn testimony. 
 
 The honorable gentleman resumed his 
 seat amid a storm of applause from lioth 
 sides of the House. 
 
 .::S 
 
 
 X'..