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An .\ ions for ad- joarnment of ex- amination. 6 Question. — Please mention the names of creditors you can call to mind. Answer. — Including creditors who were secured, and some of whom have now ceased to be creditors, were the B.inic of Montreal, the City Bank of Montreal, the Banque du Peuple, Merchants' Bank, Mols' ns Bank, the Banque Jacques Cartier, the estate of John Henry Evans, Jam - Allan, Wills & Mooney, Adams, Kimball & Moore, R. Latham ; at the present moment I cajmot recollect any others. Question. — Please enumerate, to the best of your recollection, the amounts of the claims of the said several creditors, enumerated in the last answer, at the date of your suspension, on the seventh day of April last. Answer. — As the total amount of my liabilities, secured and unsecured, was upwards of, or about three luuulrcv.; thousand dollars, it would be absolutely impossible to state from memory the several claims, nor could I very well furnish a correct starement of them without having my statements verified by reference to the books of the respective Banks. Question.— What was the amount of the claim of the City Bank of Montreal at the date of your suspension ? Answer. — That Bank only fyled its claim yc .lerday, and I have not had time to have it veritied. Question. — At the date of your assignment, had you or had you not any idea of the amount of your liability to the said City Bank ? Answer. — 1 had a pretty correct ktjovvledge of the direct liabilities to that bcrw^TuwiilyTo Bank, but did not keep a very close watch on the indirect liabilities, as I qmiitiy"''wiinKd relied very much on the judgment of the Cashier in discounting paper for Llfthllltlos too IftrRB to bo ro- meinb«roU. Cannot remem- q thai Bank to taka uaru ot him tiy Ba Asitifpioc leaves lui^ol vent's books in his pos-csslon. Pir.-Joularly anxious lor jourumrut. my account, and very frequently told that gentleman to be careful, as I was not able to stand a heavy loss. Question. — State the approximate mm of your direct liabilities to that Bank at the time of your assignment. Answer. — I cannot state from memory what was the amount of my direct liabilities to that Bank, as I did a very large business there, and had several accounts on which advances were made to me. Question. — Have you no idea of the approximate amount of the City Bank's claim against you on the said seventh of April. Answer. — I would not like to give even an approximate idea from memory, as I might be a good deal astray ; 1 would prefer to look at my ^^ books, which I placed at the disposal of the Assignee, but who voluntarily left them under my charge, as I was most anxious to assist in making the most of my estate. I can refer to them and give a statement on Wednesday. Question. — Do you remember a conversation that you had with the Cashier of the City Bank on the sixth day of April, eighteen hundred and sixty-nine, the day before your assignment? Answer. — I cannot recollect any such conversation, but might do so if any incidents that came up at such conversation were mentioned to me. Question. — Which was your largest creditor at the date of your assign- ment ? Answer.— The Bank of Montreal was the largest creditor, but the City Bank was much the largest unsecured creditor. Question. — Is it a fact that you cannot remember the approximate amount of the claim of your largest unsecured creditor at the date of your assignment ? Answer. — It is. Question. — Is your memory defective with respect to the available assets of your estate at the daie of assignment ? no?'^'"aiTt"°e7. Ansvyer.— I do not think my memory is defective either as regards assets live. Appears to or liabilities. thhig" htr, what Question.— Mention your available assets at the date of your assignment. h«i»Mk«Ki. Answer. — They would be about three hundred thousand dollars of silver coin, and some thousand dollars worth of United States notes and bondsy ibout twelve hundred dollars in cash, good promissory notes and office {ortunBU.'[ri«wi!j! ixtures, and also some St, i'atric'.i's Hall stock, and a small quantity of omf uioiwik of lousehold effects. This is all I recollect at present. i.ou«,Loia ..ff«.tr. Question. — Where was the three hundred thousand dol'irs of silver fcoin ? Answer. — It was deposited at the different banks which hod advanced , [money upon it. Question. — How came you into possession of this silver ? Answer. — By buying it. Question. — Please state the nature of the contracts for the delivery of silver to you for exportation ? Answer. — I could not do so from memory, but I can furnish a copy on Monday. Question. — In general terms, explain the nature of the contracts which you made in the course of your business with various persons for the delivery of silver. Answer. — The contracts made in my ordinary business for the purchase of^n'iUver''OTu- and sale of .silver were generally made at the Brokers' Board, of which I was trsiou a member, Question. — Explain the general nature of a silver contract, .such as those used in the ordinary course of your business, and more especially with regard to the contracts formed by you with a view co the exportation of silver. Answer. — Silver is purchased at the Brokers' Board either for immediate delivery or at so many days option, and is it; all cases paid for on delivery. The contracts made by me for the exportation were different, as, on payment to me of certain sums of money, I was bound to take from parties a certain amount of silver coin, and to export it from the country. Question. — Did you act as a broker in the generality of these transac- tions, or as an ordinary purchaser of silver on your own account, acting as your own broker } Answer. — In Montreal, exchange brokers are not, properly speaking, brokers, but money dealers. They buy and sell silver themselves, and hold it with their own capital, or the capital of the Bank widi which they do o business, till they find a purchaser. 'J'hose who simply buy and sell on account of other parties are generally called street brokers. Question. — Please indicate in the case of ■ .et brokers the amount of commission usually charged. Answer. — In small transactions, one-eighth of one per cent ; in sums of i-ifithtbeoBtiai ten thousand dollars or over, it is generally done for one-sixteenth of one lil'iI^eyitmTii^ per cent. Question. — What is the maximum and minimum commission charged by respectable brol" s in Montreal ? Answer. — S^ jh as I stated above in reference to the silver, but this does not include any counting, risk or handling, but simply reporting sales. The commission that money dealers charge is from a quarter to a half of one per cent. Question. — Have you delivered your books of account and documents to your Assignee, to wit : the books showing your business transactions anterior to your assignment on the said seventh day of April ? Answer. — T placed all books and documents in the hands of m.y Assignee, but he has not withdrawn them from my charge, as I have been engaged with his permission, in looking after the interests of my estate, both here and at other places. Question. — Do the said books and documents indicate clearly the nature of your several contracts in the course of your business, and the nature of your transactions with the several Banks of this city from which you obtained advances on silver ? s n i t 4' city Bank in- oreoses Insol- ▼ent's liability. Insolvent, of eonise, not re- (paiuible for that In his leal frr tlif interest of his creditors, doea no^ think of hie dig-^hargs. Mn.Weir oarrlas on tha bttsi. m, which It prinai- paUyinuiAg*dt>}r Answer. — My books have not yet been closed, as I wished to corroborate them with the accounts rendered by the Banks. In cases where the Banks were not specially authorized to sell the silver on which they had made advances, the Assignee authorized them to do so. The nature of my contracts with the Banks to advance on silver is clearly shown in my letter-book. Question. — Is it nut a fact that the bulk of the silver purchased by you at a certain rate per cent, discount was afterwards sold at a profit, which profit would accrue to the benefit of yourself or estate ? If so, as a general rule, what was the raie per cent, discount at which you purchased and at which you sold ? Answer. — If you refer to the silver held by the Banks, on which they ';ad made advances to me at the time of my assignment, I have to state that it was not sold at a profit, but at a very serious loss, in consequence of the decline in the value of silver when I ceased shipping. This loss was made worse by the City Bank declining to accept an otter made to it by the Bank of Montreal, to transfer a quantity of silver coin, and which action on the part of the City Bank increased my liability to that Bank, I think, about eight hundred dollars. Question. — Does the loss referred to in your last answer apply to the three hut'.dred tnousand dollars in silver spoken of in the earlier part of your exannnacion as pledged with the difterent Banks in this City for advances made on it .-' Answer. — The depreciation mentioned in my last answer was on the silver on which the Banks hod made advances. The loss caused by th ^ [Attorney, of which fact he was unaware. I am aware that he had full authority bound, safety in |to grant receipts and sign other documents. flourishes and on* Question. — How were the silver warrants issuing from your office signed } Answer. — The silver warrants for delivery of silver to the Banks on [Government account are signed either by me or by my son, who has a Power [of Attorney to sign for me. Question. — Have you any relations or contracts with the Government of [the Dominion of Canada, or with the Finance Minister thereof? Answer. — I have been entrusted by the Dominion Government with [authority to make certain arrangements between the Banks and the Govern- I ment^ and the E.xpress Companies and the Government, for the removal from Canada of a quantity of silver coin, and the finance Minister has intimated to me his intention to recommend to the Government that a certain percent- age on the silver exported be applied to cover the Bank commissions, Express and agency charges incurred in connection with the removal of said silver : coin. Question. — Is it not a fact that there is a specific arrangement between ■you and the Finance Minister of the Dominion respecting the rute of remune- ration you are to receive for your services in the matter of the export of the American silver coin in circulation in the Dominion ,-* Answer — I consider the recommendation of the Finance Minister as j meaning a positive agreement, unless the item was struck out in Committee of Supply ; bi't the remuneration to me will depend entirely upon the rate at which the Banks will continue to do the business, other expenses connected therewith, and also by the amount exported. The action of the Assignee in rue Post. Docn. notifying the Government and the Bank of Montreal in such manner as to |^*"' ^'^ '^ '"^"^ give annoyance, may cause the withdrawal of my agency in the matter, and very seriously injure my estate. Question. — Is it not a fact that you stated to a Broker in this city that ^,, __ your contract with the Government respecting the export of the American ai'^ioustorshare silver coin was worth twenty thousand dollars to you, or words to that elTect ? ^^^^"^^^^^^0^' Answer. — I have no recoilection of having done so, but should be glad proiwbiy worth if it was so, as I should not remain long in the Insolvent Court, as my entire ^°g" liabilities, direct anc indirect, are now noi very much over that amount. Question, — What amount of silver money has been purchased by you to this date on account of the Government of the Dominion of Canad? ? Answer. — The silver is noi, properly speaking, purchased by me, but by more thai 1,000. w 10 n Insolvent tlepires to haTO the hand- ling of his credi- tors' money, and to account olter- warOft. He is precise, the Banks with which arrangements have been made by the Government through me ; that is, some of the Banks have arranged through me, and some of them directly through the Government. Question. — What is the actual amount of the silver delivered to the Banks under the arraiigcment referred to on account of the Government for the purpose of exportation up to the present date ? Answer. — I could not, without authority from the Government, give any information as to transactions between the Government and the Banks with which I have made arrangements to ship silver on Government account, but I am prepared to give full information to the Assignee, as he may require it, of any sums of money coming to me after all expenses have been paid. Question. — What is the amount of money due to you at the present time by the Government- on account of your services in connection with the said silver transactions ? An5;wer, — As this is the first month in which returns have been made, and as they are yet incomplete, and as I cannot yet tell the expenses to be incurred before any thing will be coming to me, I cannot state what there is coming to me, or that there is any thing positively coming to me so far. Question. — What is the rate per cent, agreed upon between ycu and the Government, or the Finance Minister on account of the Government, on the silver to be exported by virtue of the arrangement, already referred to, as remuneration to you for your services in the matter referred to ,'' Answer. — There is no fixed rate of remuneration agreed upon for me, as I have already explained. My remuneration will entirely depend upon the terms upon which the Banks continue to receive and forward the silver, the cost of storing, selling and other charges ; the Finance Minister, as already stated by me, having agreed to recommend a fixed sum to cover these expen .es. Question. — Wh/t is the fixed sum that the Finance Minister has agreed to recommend to cover all expenses, including your remunerat'on ? Answer. — I cannot answer that question without the authority of the Government, and even had I the authority of the Government, it would, in my opinion, be most injurious to my estate, as the Banks might then ad" ance their charges, and leave me with little or no remuneration whatever. Question. — Please produce all the books of accounts, documents, papers, letter books, &c., now in your possession. Answer. — I will produce them on Monday morning at eleven o'clock. And further the Insolvent saith not at present, and this his examination is continued till Monday next, at eleven o'clock. And this part of his deposition having been read by him, he declares that it contains the truth, and nothing but the truth, persists therein, and hath signed, (Signed,) \\\ WEIR. Uo fixed rate of remunctation for Ilia services. Bnt Finance Minister will recommend a fixed sum, which Insolvent dare not divulge. Declares that de- position contain? nothing but the truth. Sworn, taken in part and acknowledged at ^ (Signed,) Montreal, the day, month and year first [- J. . above written, before vie. ) BERTHELOT, y. ^. C. And on this, the fourth day of April, eighteen hundred and seventy, re- appeared the said Ii. solvent, William Weir, and his examination was continued as follows : — I now produce a blotter, silver and American account books, letter book, cash book and ledger ; the Bank book is in the hands of the Official Assignee. Question. — Do any of the books now produced indicate u;e nature of your transactions since your assignment ? Answer. — Not so far as I know, except that they show a small amount of money collected by me, and handed to the Assignee 1 Question. — What books or documents in your possession indicate your tr.^nsactions since your assignment on the seventh of April last ? II ne, and some Answer. — I have kept no regular books since my assignment, except in lonnection with the books which have been kept by me as Government Agent )r the exportation of silver coin. I must also have some memoranda and letters relating to such trausuctions. Question. — Have you any letters or despatches or telegrams which would jindicate the nature of your arrangement with the Government of the Dominion tespecting the exportation of the said silver coin ? If so, please indicate what Ihey are. Answer. — I cannot without the sanction of the Government indicate any juch arrangements. [At this stage of the proceedings a long discussion took place before the Court; Creditors' Couusul contending that tlio A-^siguee had ;i right to ail booiis, documents, l&o., appertaining to the Estate ; tiiat tlie earnings of the Insolvent, until the obtaining jof his discharge, were his creditois'; that he was bound to place everything in the hands jof his Assignee ; that any lucrative contracts lu might have made were really vested in Ibis Assignee ; that the departments of Government were not above the law ; that ia [contractinjj with an undiiicharged bankrupt. Government subjected itself to the obliga- jtions of the law respecting its communications, as long as *heir being divulged did not I jeopardize tlio public safety ; that tlie Insolvent was l.ioiind to answer truthfully anything i which had relation to his Estate, and produce documents indicating in any way the I nature of contracts made by him before his discharirc Insolvent's Counsel strenuously opposed these pretensions ; but the Co irt ruled he must answer, His Honor Mr. Justice Berthelot expl.auing with much patience to the ' Insolvent in what respect he was, and was not, bound to answer. The Insolvent pre- tended that the ruling of the Court was tlmt the i.'xamiuat" n should be adjourned, and was only convinced of his error when again brought before the Judge.] The Court having been applied to, orders that the documents be named by the Insolvent. Question. — Please answer the foregoing question. Answer. — Letters and telegrams indicate that the Finance Minister proposes to recommend that a certain percentage shall be paid to me to cover all Bank commissions and all other charges connected w'th removing such sums of silver coin as may be delivered to the Government for e.xportation. After all commissions and expenses have boea paid the balance, if any, will be paid to me ; and I am ready from time to time, as the Assignee may direct, to furnish a statement under oath of any such profits. [Creditors' Counsel now raised the question wiiether the Insolvent, being bcToro the Gourt for examination, was entitled to the assistance of Counsel, ihe j)ractice of the Court in Montreal not generally allowing it. Whereupon, on the application of Insol- vent's Counsel, the succeeding questions are submitted in the i)resence of the Judge.] Question. — Within the last tew days have you received any telegrams from the Finance Minister of the Dominio'i respecting any money due you under any contracts with the Finance Minister? Answer. — I have received telegrams res])ecting the payment of moneys I to '^anks and other parties, which 1 had arranged c^ behalf of the Govern- ment should be paid to them, acting as Agent for the Government of Canada. Question.— Did any one of the said telegrams mention the rate per cent, upon the silver already purchased, or about to be purchased by the Govern- ment, through you, for exportation, which was to constitute the remuneration for youi services in the matter ? Answer. — The telegrams mention a percentage to cover certain commis- sions and charges on the silver, connected with its exportation. My own remuneration depends upon whether the sum proposed to be appropriated by the Government will cover all charges and leave me a profit. Question. — What was the rate per cent, mentioned ? Answer. — The telegram referred to mentions three quarters of one per cent, to cover certain commissions and charges. Question.— Is that the only rate mentioned in the telegrams ? ■hort*Sat"th5 Answer. — I would require the telegrams before giving particulars. e«»i» even a Question.— What charges was the three-quarters per cent to cover > S^t* '*"' **** 12 I m Answer.— All charges connected with buying, selling and handling the silver, brokers' and banks' commissions for selling, and all agency charges, advertising, and also to cover any advance in the rate of commission which the Banks might charge over the present arrangement between the Banks and the Government, also risks of bad, short and defaced silver, and for all travelling expenses. Question. — Is not the rate of commission to be charged by the Banks already fixed ? If so, state the rate. Fears itjt his Answer. — The rate for the present, for simply receiving, counting and bfiB^exoiurive^y delivering the silver in New York, is one quarter of one per cent, and I thiiik working.msyiose that most of the Banks will not raise the rate. The Bank of Montreal, how- mi^n wh?ch°he ever, strictly stipulated that it would have the right to advance the rate of cannot remember commission if tne rate named at first was not found satisfactory, and as that Bank is doing more than half the work, and is being put to a great deal of trouble, I have reason to fear that it will advance the rate, to the detriment of my Estate, and may decline to act at all if annoyances, to which the Manager is threatened to be put, are continued. Question. — What is the rate percent, to be allowed for Express charges ? Answer. — I have no interest in that rate, and decline to answer without the sanction of the Government. V Being directed by the Judge to answer, I say that for the present it is three-eighths of one per cent, on the Canadian Express line, and two dollarg and three quarters per thousand on the American Merchants' Union line. Question. — Are those the definite rates agreed on between you and the said Express Companies ? Answer. — These are the rates at present. Question. — Upon what sum of money have you a right to claim, or do you claim, the commission already indicated at the present time ? Answer. — Two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. Question. — Has any telegram recently been sent by the Finance Minister, authorizing the payment to you of any sum of money on account of tne said silver transactions ? Answer. — Not to my knowledge. Question. — Are you alone to derive all the benefit of the balance of the commission after deduction of the charges referred to ? Answer. — The balance will all undoubtedly belong to my Estate ? Question. — Is the three-quarters per cent, commission spoken of, the highest rate mentioned in the telegrams, or in the correspondence between you and the Finance Minister ? Answer. — The correspondence shows that by a former arrangement a varying rate per cent, was named on the first, second and third millions proposed to be expo/ted if it was delivered to the Government, but by a later arrangement a imiforn rate of three quarters per cent, was named. Question. — Arc *he original agreements cancelled ? Answer. — The or'ginal agreement is cancelled. Question. — Is not the rate oi three-quarters commission, the rate agreed upon, clear of certain charges ? Answer. — It is to cover all the charges already mentioned in a former answer. Question. — Will you swear that the advertising charges come out of that three-quarters per cenc. commission ? Answer. — All such charges, except the Proclamation of the Government itself, fixing the rate at which American silver coin shall be legal tender after the fifteenth day of April next, with which advertising I have had nothing to do on behalf of the Government. Question. — Do you swear positively that the three quarters per cent. i"i COT upc 13 by no means a com" mibsion jmmission referred to, is the *otal authorized rate of commission agreed Bpon between you and the Finance Minister ? Answer. — The three-quarters comn\ission, referred to in the tcleCTam, is Three-quartew 1 p. . •,-, .1 /^ 1 1 • per cent, to cover spoken of in my agreement with the Government as agency charges, and is everything, " the total amount proposed to be appropriated to cover all the items already mentioned by me, namely, all charges connected with buying and selling the silver, brokers' and banks' commission for selling, all agency charges, such as rents, sala'-ies, books, warrants, travelling expenses, advertising, and also to cover any advance in the rate of commission which any of the Banks might charge over the present arrangement, also storage. It is not, therefore, properly speaking, a commission. Question, — What was the total percentage proposed to be appropriated, as commission or otherwise, on the said silver ? [At this stape the Court was Ro outraged at the evasion and un\villinp;ncfis of the Insolvent to divulge his true position, that the Judge spoke iu very grave language to him, remarking that he never in his experience hud met with one no unwilling to speak out the true facts of the case, reminding him at the same time that he was bound io speak the trutli. Tht Insolvent appealed to the Judge, stating that his caution arose from anxiety lest the Government secrets should Ijo divuiged.and ihrcw the responsibility upon the Judge, who remarked thi.t he knew his duty to the Government, and would take care that i'; was in no way injured. " But do not imagine." said l\is Honor, " that the In avens or the Government will fall because you have io answer a simple ' ■ stion and produee a telegram." The Insolvent, after exclaim 'ug, " Oh my ! that iis i .ery diriiciilt questiou to answer,"' replied : Answer. — No appropriation has been made as yet, but it is proposed by the Finance Minister to appropriate for Bank commissions, for receiving and , ,. , '^^^ ^ , • 11 1 1 other thre« deuvermg, one quarter per cent. ; agency charges, covering all tJie charges quarters per cent. already mentioned, three-quarters per cent, ; express, and all other charges, ^^Ji^^mmi^'imj!" not to exceed one-half per cent. The positive and definite amount of com- mission and chavges, to cover all bank and brokers' comrrassions and charges, and all other charges, except express charges and handling, is therefore one per cent. Question. — Have you in your possession the letter of the Finance Minister which shows the nature of the agreement with you respecting the said silver transactions ? If so, produce the same. Answer, — I have. I now produce the said letter. It is to the following eflect : • .,;, • , :,: -. . :v-.:v. ,-..„■-.. Q, OTTAWA. Sir, "Ottawa, 26th February, 1870. Finance Minid- " With reference to the correspondence which has taken place ter'siettersodiffi- . ^ It./. • • r rr • , t cultto remember. between us, on the subject of your commission for effecting the removal The tnie com- ofthe American Silver. I have to acquaint you that I think it desirable that ^^"^^/j^^^^ instead of a varying commission on the first, second and third million of one-haif percent, dollars, there should be a uniform commission of one per cent to cover bank commissions and your own agency charges, the Government bearing the express charges, bags, &c., in fact all the charges to which it was liable in the last silver operations with the Bank of Montreal, such charges not to exceed I 14 one-half per cent I shall be gUicl to luive your consent to this arrar.fement I have the honour to be, Sir, Your obedient servant, W. WEIR, Esq., (Signed) F. HINCKS, Montreal. Minister of Finance. Question. — Did 3'ou reply to this letter .> Answer. — I replied, accepting the same. Question. — Did you recently attempt to get money from the Finance Minister.'' If so, what amount, and on what day.^* Answer. — I recently requested the Finance Min.stcr to put me in a position to pay certain accounts for bank commissions, express and other charges that were coming in to me for adjustment on behalf of the Govern- ment. There was no amount fixed. A copy of the telegram I will produce in the morning. Declares that And further the Insolvent saith not at present, and this part of his trnth.'a^d" noth- examination having been read to him he declares that it contains the truth ingbutthotruUi. and nothing but the truth, and this his examination is continued to to-mor- row, the fifth instant, ai eleven o'clock, and he hath signed. Sworn on the second day of April, cic;-hteen huntlred and seventy, before the uiitlcrsigncd, Hon. J. A. iJerthelot. J. S. C, and acknowledged the fourth day of the same month and year, at Montreal before me, (Signed) R. MACKAY, J. S. C. (Signed) W. WEIR (Signed) J. A. BERTHELOT, J. S. C. [All attempt was now mado by tlio Insolvent to come to some arrangement with his creditors, and stop tlio cxaraination. After laying the nature of his proposal before the Assignee, he requested him to bring it before the creditors. Mr. McCulloch, the principal creditor, Inid the proposition submitted to him, and not being acquainted with the facts elicited on tlie examination of the Insolvent, and believing Weir's representa- tions, consented to talce, with the ISank of Montreal's guarantee, four-liftns of one-quarter per cent., which the Insolvent made out was the wholo commission that would come to him after the deduction of all exiienscs. After an interview with tlia Counsel, and examination of the evidence, M)\ McCulloch addressed the following letter to the Assignee : — [COPY.I City Bank, Montreal, 4th April, 18T0, Sin, Since you wrrc with me to day, I have seen the partial examination of Mr. Weir before one of the Judges, and have therefore reason to think that the statement of figures shewn me by Mr. Weir, of the cost of the moving of the silver is incorrect. I must beg of you not to move any further in the busiuess until the conclusion ot Mr. Weir's evidence. Yours truly, (Signed) F. McCULLOCH, Cashier. A. B. STEWART, Esq , > Oliicial Assi vnoc. S Mr. McCuUoch's consent to this sctllement was consequently withdrawn, and tho examination was continued.] And on this fifth day of Apnl, eighteen hundred and seventy, re-appeared the said William Weir, the sa-.d Insolvent, and continues his deposition as follows : — I have brought the copy of the two telegrams referred to in my last answer yesterday, but as they refer to the business of the Dominion Government, I decline to produce them without a direct order from the Court, as I wish to clear myself from all responsibility in their production. Question. — Do they refer to a lucrative contract between you and the Finance Minister, of importance to your creditors ? Answer.— They refer to certain disbursements by the Government, in \Vist>ea to clear biouelX. 15 's arrangement CKS, of Finance. t^ie Finance put me in a ss and other the Govern- ^^ill produce part of his ns the truth d to to-mor- WEIR ?enicnt wfUi fposal before P"nocli, the I'liHted with icpresenta- one-quarter 'J<1 como to 'i<-nce, Mr. >i, isro, ' Mr. Weir of figures 'wust bcff fr. Weir's "■shier. nnd tho peared ion as msvver lent, I sh to id the It, in »nnection with removal of American silver coin, under an arrangement with ^e, which, if successfully carried out, will be of great benefit to my creditors. Question. — Has the telegram from the Finance Minister been shown to ly person ? Answer.— The telegram has been shown, Question. — Does the telegram in question contain matters solely refcr- Hng to the transactions relating to the silver contract referred to in die former )art of yonr examination ? Answer. — I so understand it. " v , ' r : ' ■ :.;?.: Question. — Please produce it. Answer. — I have already declined to do so, and still decline without a [direct order from the Judge, as I wish to clear myself, i I have already [stated, from all responsibility in their production, [This objection agiiiu led to a lengtlieiicd iirirununt before the Judge. Counsol } animadverting on the opposition oifercd to tho ehuidation ot tlic tiuth, and on the I attempt made to stop proceedings. Tlie Judge himself, during the argunuiit, remarking that he had met with instances in which au Assignee and an Insolvent had ( (mspiied to conceal t!'!;ips from the creditors of an estate. Tliis n^murk of the learnud Judge was drawn ftn 111 by a specious argument of tho Insolvent, that divulging tlic rates of his remuneration would cause tho Banks to raise their charges, and tlu'rebv d :iriage bis estate, and that his principal creditors and the Assignee wt:ro actually willing to si^ltlu with bim on the basis of his proposition to Mr. McCuiloch. Mr. MeCulIoch's k ttcr being read, the Court ai)parently attached little weight to the Insolvent's arguments, and ordered him to produce the telegram.] Being ordered by the Court to produce the same, I produce a copy of my telegram to the Honorable the Finance ?-iuis(:er, and his answer to it. M NTREAL, ist April, 1870. Hon. Sir Francis Hincks, C. B. Minister of Finance, Ottawa. Please instruct Bank of Montreal to place to my credit, as Government The toipfrrnm Agent, one and one-half per cent, on all silver received and exported on *'\"t (^cnrlveat » mcm- Government account, to enable me to pav bank commissions, f'cicjhts, other ory. commissions and charges as per agreement. I will furnish vouchers and express accounts receipted. (Signed) W. WEIR. To whicn telegram I received on the same day the following reply : — 1456 2 No. of Message 171. Montreal, 1st April, 1870. By telegraph frn.n Ottawa. To Ui. Wm. Weir. Will issue warrants in regular course for the following claims : — Banks, The Finance one-quarter: you, three-quarters j other charges when presented, — cannot .. You^'thrce.'" deal by telegram in such matters. Will advise Mr. Angus of our inteutions, vartcis.' and he will, no doubt, arrange for cashing your warrants. Show him this. (Signed) F. HINCKS. The foregoing was from the Montreal Telegraph Company. Question. — Were any warrants issued ? Answer. — No warrants were issued, as I did not understand that I had authority to settle in that way. I have, however, ccrtiiied to the correctness of a number of accounts. Question. — The telegram says, " will issue warrants in regular course," &c., does not said expression refer to the issuing of warrants by the Finance Minister? Answer. — Yes. Question. — Were any warrants issued by the Finance Minister? Answer. —Not to my knowledge. Question. — The latter part of the telegram is as follows : — " W\ll advise Mr. Angus of our intentions, and he will no doubt arrange for cashing your U-f X6 letter Iroiii A.;-- tignee, InsoIvcTit tUwarted in Ijis efforts on lichaU of his creditors. Document No. 3 post. Kot sure whether h6 lias »ny other tele- grams or dlB- patcbea. Declares above to »)e the truth, and nothing but thetru.h. warrants." Did Mr. Angus to your knowledge receive such advice ; if yes,; for what amount was he authorized to honor your warrants ? Answer. — I have no knowledge of the advice or instructions sent to Mr.l Angus by the Finance Minister, therefore I cannot answer the second part off the question. Question. — In your own telegram to the Finance Minister you ask thatj the Bank of Montreal be instructed to put to your credit one and one-half j per cent, on all silver received and exported on Government account. Do j you swear positively that you were not aware that your request was compile.! with? Answer. — I swear positively that I was not ; on the contrary the answer ! of tlie Finance Minister shows that he proposed to adopt a different course, and arrange the details in accordance with the regulations of the Finance Department. Question. — Did you never attempt to get money from the Bank of Montreal after your receipt of the Finance Minister's telegram ? Answer. — On receipt of the Finance Minister's telegram, I applied to Mr. Angus to arrange for the payment of bank and express charges, and other disbursements for which accounts were being presented for settlement. Question. — What was his reply to your application .-* Answer. — Mr. Angus showed me a notice which he had received from the Assignee of my Estate, which he stated was embarrassing to him, as he could not overlook it, or words to that effect ; and T think tliat he recom- mended me to see Mr. Stewart about the matter. Question. — What was the amount of silver received, and the amount of tlie silver exported on Government account at the date of your dispatch, fr'> wit, the first of April, upon which you ask one and one-half per cent, to be placed to your credit ? Answer. — The amount of silver exported and sold, and on which the Government was bound hy their arrangement with me to pay all the charges incurred, was, to the best of my knowledge and belief, two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. As I think that I have no claim on the Government for any remuneration on any silver which may have been received by the Banks, until I have completed my contract by the sale of the silver, I decline to answer that part of the question. I did not understand that any money should be placed to my personal credit ; but simply that the Bank of Montreal be instructed to pay commissions and charges on presentation to it of proper vouchers and receipted accounts. I so understood the dispatch sent by me. Question. — Please to state, without any evasion, the amount of silver received, and the amount of silver exported at the date of your dispatch to the Finance Minister. The Insolvent having declined to answer the foregoing question, and having stated his objec ion to the Judge, was ordered by the Judge to answer the same, to the best of his knowledge, and replies : Answer. — I cannot from memory answer that question ; but will give the figures to-morrow morning. Question. — Have you any other telegrams or dispatches relating to the contract already referred to ; if so, produce them. Answer. — I am not sure, but will look over my dispatches, and if I have any such, will produce them to-morrow. And further, for the present, the Insolvent saith not ; and this part of his examination having been read to him, he declares that it contains the truth and nothing but the truth, and this his examination is continued to to-morrow, the sixth instant, at eleven o'clock, and he hath signed. (Signed) W. WEIR. Sworn on the second day of April, eighteen hundred and seventy, before Mr. Justice Berthelot, and advice > '*'' yesj °ns sent to Mr] second part of) er you ask that] 'e and one-half! account. Do i was compile,! ";y the answer I 'fcrent course. t^ie Bank of ' ^hich the the charges "died and overnment ved by the » I decline "y money f" Montreal ^^ proper t by me. of silver spatch to this part of his examination acknowledged the fifth day of the same month and y^ar, at Montreal, before me. (Signed) R. MACKAY, J. S. C. And on this seventh day of April, eijj;litcen hundred and seventy, rc-appearcd le said Insolvent, William Weir, aud continues his examination as follows :-••• Question. — At the latter end of your examination, on the iifth of this month, ton were asked the following question : — " Please to state, without any evasion, |ho amount of silver received, and the amount of silver exported at the date of rour dispatch to the Finance Minister;" please to state if you are now in a )Osition to answer that question precisely. If yes, do so. Answer. — Advices from the different bank agencies arc yet incomplete, at Mflmory late mentioned, say the first of April, the reported receipts footed up to lour amoimT'o'fMiir^ hundred and sixteen thousand six hundred and fifty eight dollar.? and twenty oxiiwtod ; twice [cents. An approximate of the shipments amounted to about three hundred aud Sioa^h't. " * fifty thousand dollars. Question. — In your answer, on page eleven, to the question, '* what was the Commi-^ion irate per c \ mentioned," you answer, " the telegram referred to mentions three- "^'"'^ '''''2''*' '°^* quarters ci one per cent., to cover certain comniLsfions aud charges, and subse- quently, on the production of the Finance Minister's telegram, it becomes evident that a miich larger commission is agreed to by the Finance Minister ; how can you explain this discrepancy ? Answer. — The telegram referred to, taken in connection with the Finance .j^^^^ jg ^j Minister's letter, also produced in the evidence, shows clearly that there is no course, no dis- I discrepancy whatever between the statement made by mc aud the telegram '''^P'"*'^- referred to. Question. — On consultation with experienced brokers about the nature of your conmiission to be allowed you under the said contracts, I have been informed that such a rate is enormously lucrative, and that respectable brokers could bo ncspcctabie found who would do what is required by you under said contracts, and give ^e'^'^j]j^^fo"i|,^o° security, and consider themselves well remunerated, for one-quarter of on« per cent. ; how do you explain thi?<, if such be the fact. Have you one or more persons interested with you in the contracts, or is the three quarters per cent., which appears unmistakably to be your remuneration, to come to your Estate without any reduction by payments to other parties or party ? Answer. — There are no experienced brokers in the matter of exporting silver Tiwoivent the coin from about seventy bank agencies, situated in all parts of the Provinces of "ruker^^^siiver Ontario and Quebec, from Quebec to Sarnia, and none couscquently that have "'""'l'''' , As he ., ^ ui x- 1 ■ -ii 1 11 X' i.1 1 • 4 i ii lived In the states any idea, or are capable ot speakmg with any knowledge ot the subject, as to tiie for some time im- costs incurred in conducting transactioiis of such magtiitude. The only party that ™*^'o'J'^i»numer- I know of able to give even an approximate estimate of the costs to be incwred ous failure^*, is the Manager of the Bank of Montreal ; that institution having made a shipment have ?aid^ he was for Government account fi^me time ago, equal to about one-third of the amount t'lo only broker now proposed to be exported. I have shown that gentleman an estimate of the knew any thing charges to be incurred in carrying out the work which shows a clear profit to me pa^r'^cumncv ? of about one-quarter per cent,, provided none of the banks raise their rate of Gratifying infcr- commission. This amount I have already tendered to my creditors through the lUe'^oth^rrc^c^ Assignee of my Estate, less one-fifth as an allowance to me for my services, which abieirokers. The offer I am authorized by the Manager of the above-named Bank to say to my ^i in tWsucSss principal creditors he considers very fair. If other respectable brokers ^'ti °'^'^g^"j".'3^^ disposed to give their labor and their brain without fair remuneration, I am not was to it* cost, of willing to do so. All parties employed by me in assisting to carry out the con- IncemTheta^ tracts and my creditors are interested, as well as the country at large, I suppose w diver exporta- also the Government feels interested in the success of the movement. There is npijeiirn to have also a larse number of brokers and manufacturers interested the other way ; there fo'go"fn twg o ^ , iTi "j'xi tact, woulfiitnot are, however, no party or parties whatsoever interested directly or inairectly, have been of great 18 U. ^. INSOLVENT ACT OF 1SG9- In the matter of WILLIAM WEIR, - AND ANDREW B. STEWART, An Insolvent; Assignee. To the Manarjer of the Bank of Montreal, Montreal: Sir, You are hereby notified that William Weir, of tho City and District of Montreal, Broker, made an assignment to aie of all his estate and day Actl Tnsol to hf as v\ in pre time arc Stati| sai( purj 19 [felfectfl, iimlcr tlio Insolvent Act o? 18G4 and amcnJuicnta thereto, on the seventh [day of April last, in wit: April, I8()}). Tliat tlie 8.iid William Weir Im-i not obtained Lis disehargo under the said Act iind anieiidnicnts. That, nmht and by virtue of the said Act, •' all books of account of the Insolvent, all voucIutm, accounts, Icttcr.s and other papers and docunionts rulatin^ to hi.s business, all nioney.s and uiqociable paper, stookn, bonds and ollior .securitieH, as well as all the real estate oflho Insolvent, and all Id.s interest therein, whether in fee or otherwise, as also all his p' rsoiial estate and moveable and immoveable property, debts, assets and etft'cts, wliicli he has, ir may become entitled to at any time before his disohari;o is effected under the said Act, excepting only such as are exempt from seizure a, J sale under exoeulion and l»y virtue of the several statutes in such case made and provided" are vested iu lue as bis Assignee under said Act. And you are hereby required not topiv over to the said Trisolvent any moneys, or deliver to him any valuable socuiitii^ or other effects belonging to, or purporting to belong to the said Insolvent, which ato already in, or may come into your possession, but to pay and hand over the same to me, as the Assignee of the said Insolvent. (Signed,) A. B. STHWAllT, Assignee of IVUluon ITcfV. Montreal, 30c1i March, 1870. I, (he undersigned, one of the sworn 13 lili J.s of Her Majesty's Superior Court lor Lower Canada, appointed and acting in and lor tho District of Montreal, do hereby certify and return, under my oath of office, that I did, on the tliirtieth day of March, eighteen hundred and seventy, between the hours of four and five of the clock in the afternoon, serve the within notice on " the Bank of Montreal," • by speaking to and leaving a duplicate of the same with h.. IJ. Angus, Esquire, Manager of said "Bank of Montreal," at their office and place of business, in " / the City and District of Montreal. (Signed,) M. DEMPSKY, ' 'JailiO' of Stipaivi' Court. Montreal, 30th March, 1870. No. 3. , .MoNTfiEAL, 31st March, 1870. ' Another em- Tothe Hon. Sir Pruntis Iliiicka, K. C. 31. G., Finance Minister fur /A e bamwaiug letter. Dominion of Canada : Sill, --'<■• ■ -^ . I have the honour to inform you, at the request of several creditors of William Weir, of the City of .Montreal, IJroker, an Insolvent, to whom I am Assignee, that the said William Weir made an assignment to mo on the seventh day ot April, lSCi9, under the provisions of the Insolvent Act of 186-i and amendments, and that he has not obtained his discharge under the said Act. That, under Sec. 2, Sub-Section 7 of said Act, " all the personal estate, and *' all the moveable and immoveable property, debts, assets and effects which the " Insolvent lias or may become entitled to at any time before his discharge is " effected under the said Act," are vested in me as his Assignee, raid are the property of his creditors. That any moneys wiiich arc now due, or that may become due by the Govern- ment of the Dominion to said William Weir before he obtains his discharge, should be paid over to me, as his Assigncp^ for the benefit of his credit irs. I would beg respectfully to draw )our att.r.tion to the fact that the said William Weir has never furnished mo with a schedule or statement of his liabili- ties, as he was bound to do under the Act, although I have frequently requested him to produce the same, and ho has been summoned at my instance, in obedience 20 Fu'ther pmbni' ratftlag lutttjr. to an order oFtho Superior Court of this District, to .upponr before the said Court, to bo examined under oath, touching:; his estate and effects, on Saturday, the second of April next, with a view to his bijiii^' compellod to hand over to mo the whole of the asfjcts of tho estate, iiieludinj^ any sums of money duo, or to become due by the Governmeiit of the Dominion to liim. 1 assume, of course, that the said Insolvent is not to bo roirarded as ttn olFicer of the Government, thou^rh he lepresents himself to be the Government A«,'t)nt, but rather in the liiilit of u person having transactions with, and olaima against the Governnjent, which claims of ri;.dit are vvstod in me. llolyiii);, therel'ore, on your sense of justice and your earnest desire to facili- tate the earryini^ out the provisions of the law, I beg most respectfully to ask that you will give directions that whatever moneys may be due, or may become due by the Government to the said William Weir, until he obtains his discharge under the Insolvent Act, may be retained, or handed over to me, as his Assignee, fur the benefit of his creditors. I have the hononr to remain, Sir, Your obedient servant, (Signed,) A. B. STEWART, Assignee of the (State of William Weir. No. 4. Montreal, 6th April, 1870. Tu the Hon. Sir Francis IlincJcs, K.C.M.O., Finance Minister fur the Dominion of Canada : :, , ;;' Sitt, ' . In re W. Weir, Insolvent. I have the honour to inform you tliat, under the examination of William Weir, an Insolvent, before the Judge sitting in Insolvency for the District of 3Iontreal, it has come out in the Insolvent's evidence, and by the production of a despatch and telegram lVon> yourself, that there is a very large amount of commission due by the Goveiimient to the Insolvent. This, as I had the honour to inform you in my notice of the Slst March last, isvesied in me, as his Assignee, under Section 2, Sub-Sectiou 7 of the Insolven*' Act of 1S64', and is the property of his creditors. The exact amount due does not clearly appear from the sworn evidence of the Insolvent, but the rate per cent. does. I beg, therefore, respectfully to request that you will give directions to have the amount which, on receipt of this, may be found due, by reason of the contracts of the Insolvent with the Gi'vernment of Canada, handed over to mo for thebenerit of the creditors of his estate. I have the honour to remain, Sir, Your most obedient servant, (Signed,) A. B. STEWART, Assignee of the estate of WiUiairi Weir. No. S. Propoiition Proposition, forming bails of settlement, offered to W. Weir, on the seventh made to the In- April, 1870, at office of Assij^nee:— S'byhim."*' William Weir to give an order on the Finance Minister for one and one-half per cent, on all silver received or exported up to 7th April. Creditors will pay one-quarter per cent, to Banks, and actual Express charges, bags and packages. On order being accepted, proceedings will bo stayed, and credi.^ors will not oppose discharge. Proceedings to go on till order is received. (Initialed,) F. M., (for City Bank.) " J. R., (for Merchants' Bank.) W. S., (for Molaons Bank.) 21 lid Court, Tdiiy, the |> 1110 tho V bccomo id as un Ivcrninont id oluinis to facili- UHk that 10 duo by ^0 under it^noc, fur RT, Weir. m. dominion mination y for tho d by the ery large iirch last, Insolven'' ice of the to have ijontracts 10 benedt No. 6. IT, Weir. seventh one-half 3harges, (rill not {Telegram.) Montreal, 8ih April, 187rt. pint usUtmttt To the Hon. the rmunce Minisler nj Conadu, tiuancc Department, Ottaint : Mini«t!sta.ice of the Hon. the Finance Minister, it would be difficult for the., "to obtain a lien on the Government liabilities " to the Insolvent, Weir. But they rely on the Honourable the Finance Minister's aid to obtain what is really an asset of the estate. Tlie offer made by Weir was not reasomible ; nor did it give more security than his own word, which cannot be relied on. But the creditors would take Sve thousand dollars cash, and not interfere with the Insolvent's future earnings ; and, so far as a resolution of the creditors could bind, not oppose his discharge. 23 Tlic creditors feel they have a right to the assistance of the Finance Minister croUitors feel in the matter; when by a simple order ou the Bank of Montreul, in accordance J!j'i?inn^L^ jiin* ■with the terms of the order of the Insolvent hiuiscll" on the Hon. the Fiuance ^'*''* '^'^'^'^ Minister, he could make a valuable asset av-ailable to the estate. (Si-nod,) A. B. STEWART, Assiynce of the esiaf.e of William Weir. (No of laasuf/e, 485.) No. 12. Montreal, 12th April, 1870. Bu telegraph from Otfaiua, to A. B Stewart. Weir's pioiits are not as large as yuu suppose ; and Governucnt must take care that operations are not obstructed. iMy advice would bo, th."'^ you take two thousand five hundred cash, and an order for an e(jual amount on his next earn- ings. I will aeo that justice is done. (Signed,) F. IIINCKS. No. 13. y^Tdcgram.) Montreal, 13th April, 1870. To the Hon. the Finance Minister of Canada, Ottawa: Siu, I have the honour to acknowledge receipt of your telegram- in reply to mine of the twelfth. The croditors, on being consulted, decline to authorize my acceptance of less than %o thousand dollars cash, in full of claims against ilie Insolvent Weir, and will not keep the offer open longer than to-day ; but they rely on your assurance that you will see justice done. (Signed,) A. B. STEWART, Assignee of the estate of Williani Weir. No. 14. ^ ^ {Montreal Telegraph Compang. No. of message, 367.) Montreal, 13th April, 1870. Bg telegvciph from Ottawa, to A. B. Stewart: Wrotv) to Mr. Angus, by this day's mail, what I thought wou!d be Batisfiiclory. Weir agreed to allow five thousand dollars, to be paid on conditions, Avhich he said were understood, and which I explained to 31r. Angus. Writing from House of Commons, I cannot explain them ; but he wants to be protected from molestation. Of course, I offer no opinion, but must act as instructed by law officers. (Signed,) F. HLNXKS. No. 15. '" Montreal, 13lh April, 1870. To R, B. Angus, Esq., Manager ^ Bank of Montreal : In re W. Weir, Insolvent Sir, In reference to the proposition received By me, from you, on behalf of the lion, the Finance Minister, respecting the settlement of the Insolvent Weir's affairs, by the payment of live thousand dollars, — the creditors granting his discharge, I beg to inform you, in reply — That the creditors would take fho sum of five thousand dollars, in full, of his contracts Avith the Government, present or future, connected with the silver move- ment ; and, on the assurance from the B:uik ol' Monireal, that such sum would bo paid to me within a reasonable time — ,^:)y the 30 ih April. They would guarantee, too, that is, by resolution of the creditors, duly called, not to interfere with the Insolvent's future operations, nor in any way oppose hia obtaining his discharge under the Act, at his own diligence. Finanoo Min- isu'i- offers advice insjjoii cf assist- ance. Touohing proof of friencl- Khip. Uamon iu- i/ercedos for Pythias, Jostioo will be done, of course, but the friend and oonfl- deutial agent must Ijo protect- ed. Estimate of profli i per cent, ou S:l,amo amount is S-i-i,iiOli. The ciUGstion remains — To Khnm does the balance of profit go ? The diilerenoe between S.''>,000 and S-'!'>"''>J" is S17,,V0. TheTi- nanco Minister states that the Insolvent's profit would not )k! fo larpe aa croditors sup- post'd. The Insol- vent declares that no one Fhares hia commission ; and having, in his wiiole evidence, liersistcntly spoken the truth, he is, of course, to bo implicitly Vjelioved. It may bo assumed that this balance will go back to the imblic treasury, aud it might Ims assumed that it Will not. The question is sub- mitted to the cnr-jfu! consider- ation of the roailer. Creditors refuse to take ivlvice iu place of $5,00t). 24 h Drama drawr, to B close. Justice at lost, hut not M contcmplatm by Finance Min- ister an,'ged to withdraw his threat, and, on demand b(;iug made, th** order Bet for.th in Document No. G, was given by him u|)on the Finance Minister. A telegram (No. 6) was forwarded to the Finance Minister, and brought forth in reply Nos. 7 and 8. Had this order been complied with, and a warrant «ont to the Bank of Montreal to place to the credit of the Afjsigne'!, after payment of charges, the amount then due the lusol int, a sum of between six and aevcn thousand dollars would have become available to the Estate. But Wt;ir never intended this order lo be carried out, and set off next morning to Ottawa, where he had intprvi(iws with the Finance Minister. The effect of his influence with the Minister is apparent in the subseijuent telegrams and letters. Sir Francis places himself in the po.sition of champion of his immaculate agent, luid holding, as he no doubt did, the key of the posit'on, dictates terms to the creditors. It appears that on the very morning of Weir's leaving to seethe Minister, a war- rant was out for the arrest of Weir for obtaining money under false pretences ; and this v;«8 notified to Sir Francis by the As'^ignee in his telegram of that day. Whatever the result of the charge may l)c, and we are informed that sound legal opinion has been given that the charge is well-founded, the creditors of the Insolvent have nothing to do with it. But what does Sir Francis mean by telegraphing about I'olestation of the Insolvent? Does he consider that the legal means made use of by creditors to muke an Insolvent disgorge his assets to them, constitute molestation ? Or is he striving, on the represan- tations of the Insolvent himself, to make terms for one accused of a criminal offence ? The creditors were justly indignant at this despatch ; but of course felt themselves, as they were, in the power of the Finance Minister : and that without taking what he Rraciously dictated to them til' would get nothing at i\ll. On the principle that half a loaf is better than no bread, ti y consented to take S.">,000 ir full of all claitns against Ihe Insolvent, on the guarantee of the Bank of Montreal. Since this settlement was unwillingly agreed to, creditors have been informed that the Insolvent has been exhibiting a despatch, or warrant from the Finance Minister, indicating that a larger sum than that he handed over to his creditors is to be given to his wife. Hence the pitiable conviction, that a Minister of the Crown has become a party, with his confidential though bai^krupt r.gent, to measures which havi; the; aupearance of defeating tlie provisions of the law, and which have tlius enabled the latter to keep back a considerable portion of his Estate from those to whom it ib justly doe ] O TEMPORA! O MORES!" Montreal; 26th April, 18T0. Date of leeoB- vi-yance of Sub- Treasiiry to la- eolvvnt.