NT THE British Empire League. i / _____ REPORT \ \ ov Weetinq of council, r JULY I2th, 1897, f TO RECEIVE A DEPUTATION FROM I THE LEAGUE IN CANADA. OFFICES t 112 CANNON STREET, LONDON, E.C. PRICE! miirOPEMCE:. 7 THB BRITISH E]VIPIHE liEflGUE REPORT OF MEETING OF COUNCIL JULY i2th, 1897, TO RECEIVE A DEPUTATION FROM THE LEAGUE IN CANADA. -I ♦ » OFFICES: 112 CANNON STREET, LONDON, E.G. LONDON 8POTTISWOODE & CO., PRINTERS, 84 GRACECHURCH STREET, E.G. THE BRITISH EMPIRE LEAGUE. I ♦ I MEETING OF THE COUNCIL. I » I A MEETING of the Council was held at the offices of the League, 112 Cannon Street, on Monday, July T2th, 1897, to receive a deputation from the British Empire League in Canada. Sir Robert G. \V. Herbert presided in the absence of the president, the Duke of Devonshire, and among those present were Sir John Lubbock, M.P., Sir G. Bowen, Mr. Faithfull Begg, M.P., Mr. Becket Hill, Mr. W. Herbert Daw, Mr. J. Mackrell, Mr. George Roffey, Col. P. R. Innes, Mr. Nevile Lubbock, Mr. G. Lawson Johnston, Sir Charles Eremantle, Mr. Henry Kimber, M.P., Mr. Herman W. Marcus, Mr. E. F. G. Hatch, M.P., Mr. J. M. Macdonald, Sir Andrew Clarke, Dr. W. Culver James, Mr. Edward Bond, M.P., Mr. David Evans, Mr. Herbert Samuel, Mr. R. W. Wallace, and Mr. C. Freeman Murray (Secretary). The Canadian deputation consisted of the following: — Lieut.-Col. G. T. Denison, president of the league in Canada, Sir Charles Tupper, Dr. Larratt Smith, Mr. Oranville C. Cunningham, Mr. John T. Small, Mr. Frank Arnoldi, Mr. J. M. Clark, Mr. H. H. Lyman, and Dr. George R. Parkin. The Duke of Devonshire had been expected to preside, but a few minutes after 3 o'clock — the hour fixed for the meeting to begin — Sir Robert Herbert took the chair. The Chairman : Gentlemen, in order to save the time of the Duke and of this meeting when he arrives, I propose A 2 that we should have the minutes of the last meeting read now. (Hear, hear.) The Secretary (Mr. C Freeman Murray) having read these minutes they were approved by the present meeting and signed by the Chairman. The Chairman : I am sorry to say that we have just received a telegram from the Duke in which he says " I am afraid I cannot come to the council meeting to-day." I know that he fully intended to come — to make every effort to do so — and therefore something has no doubt arisen — a Cabinet meeting, or something else, that has made it im- possible for him to be with us. He is always so attentive in keeping his appointments here, that if he does not do so we know there must be some strong reason for it. I will therefore open the proceedings ini his absence. We have received letters expressing the regret of the writers that they have been unable to be with us from the Earl of Onslow^ Lord Rothschild, the Agent-General for New Zealand, Sir David Dale, Mr. James Rankine, M.P., Dr. Ryerson, and Mr. Robert Duncan. These gentlemen have all written, stating in different terms that they had hoped to be here, but that they regret that it is impossible. As you are aware, this is a special meeting Mr. Herman W. Marcus : Before we proceed to the business I was going to ask if the council would grant me leave of urgency to propose a resolution of which it has been impossible for me to give notice. The Chairman : I think there is no objection to taking any resolution which will not cause any debate. Mr. Marcus : Then I will ask leave to move : " That ihe Council of the British Empire League desires to con- gratulate the Government and people of Cape Colony upon the important contribution which they have made to the cause of Imperial unity by the offer of a battleship for the purposes of the Imperial Navy." Sir John Lubbock : I beg to second that. The Chairman : This certainly is a motion which I think is not likely to cause any discussion, and I will put it to the meeting at once. It was then carried unanimously. The Chairman : As you know from the agenda that lies before you, this is a special meeting of the council which has been convened for the purpose of receiving a deputa- tion from our brethren of the British Empire League in Canada. We are fortunate in having on the occasion of the Jubilee an unusually strong representation of our Canadian friends and allies, and it has been their wish to meet the council of the League not in so formal a manner as at a public meeting, and to be able to speak freely and frankly to the League not in the presence of the Press. They wish to indicate various ways in which they think the unity of the Empire and the activity of the League may be still further developed than they have yet been. I believe that Colonel Denison is going to address some remarks to us in the first place. Lieut.-Colonel George T. Denison : Gentlemen, — The British Empire League at the last meeting of the League in Canada was glad to find that they had united support from all parties in politics in the country, and at the following meeting of the executive committee of the League it was considered that as far as regarded educating the people of Canada up to the point of doing everything possible in connection with the carrying out of the objects set forth in the constitution of the League, that that work had to a great extent been accomplished. We felt, how- ever, that there were other things that we ought to try and impress on our friends of the British Empire League at home — a few things that have probably impressed us a little more for various reasons than they have impressed yourselves. In the first place there is one important question — namely, the treaties which were made in 1862 at a time when Canada consisted of a number of smaller colonies with lieutenant-governors for distinct countries ; at a time when there were 12,000 or 15,000 troops in the country, and when millions of British capital were being spent in the country. At that time those treaties were- passed which interfered with our absolutely free control of our tariffs. In 1867 we were made into a confederation,, and had much larger powers given to us, but we have had to uphold those treaties and stand by them all through the years in which they stood. In 1892 they ran out. In 1890 I was specially deputed by the old Imperial Federation League of Canada to urge on our brethren here the necessity of a denunciation of those treaties so as to give us control of our own tariffs. I succeeded at the executive meeting of the old League in getting it put in the annual report of 1890 on the principles laid down. At the council meeting we carried that through, and at the annual meeting I proposed the adoption of the report which contained that request. Nothing, however, was done for a year. Then our League in Canada, through the aid of our members in the House, succeeded in having a resolution unanimously passed by both Houses of the Legislature in 1891-92 to Her Majesty the Queen, praying that when the moment had come when we could give notice for the denunciation of those treaties, that that notice should be given. For some reason we were put off. Five years have since elapsed, and it is not done yet. The Canadian people have now offered, in connection with their desire regarding these treaties, to give what they propose to all nations, but with the express intention of giving an ad- vantage to our own people. I am deputed to ask you ta use what influence you can on the Government and people of this country to give us that full control of our own tariffs that we contend we are entitled to. The next point I wish to refer to is what I touched on very lightly at a public meeting the other evening — the establishment of a naval reserve. We have 70,000 or 75,000 seafaring men who with training might be enrolled in the Royal Naval Reserve. We have a line of three cruisers going across to Japan. We have a further line of four or five vessels to Australia, but we have no means for any Canadian getting the education or training that would fit him to take part in the naval reserve in the event of any war. We think that a little pressure on our part on our Government, and a little pressure on your part on your Government, would induce them to consider some means by which we could have schools in our own territory for the training of these men. I will not detain you longer on this subject, but I should like Mr. Small to say a word or two about it. Now I wish to enter upon what we think the most serious part ot the whole question — the question of the food supply of the mother country, for anything struck at the heart of the Empire must be felt with terrible force in every one of the extremities. If anything happened here which obliged you to make peace from want of food while we should in Canada be going on fighting, it would take the heart out of us if anything happened to the mother country. We have been looking closely into this ques- tion, and reading what has been written in your maga- zine articles, and at what has been said in the debates in your House. I do not wish anything we say to be considered unfavourable to neighbouring nations. Mr. Balfour, perhaps wisely, perhaps judiciously, said in answer to a discussion on the subject ot your food supply that in case of trouble they could depend on the United States and obtain food there. Now, that position I absolutely dissent from. I think that this great Empire ought not to be dependent for its food supplies on the favour of any Power or any other two Powers, but t^hat we should have the matter so arranged within ourselves that we should be independent of all other Powers. I am not afraid of our fighting power, I am not afraid if it is straight fighting, either on land or sea, that the British people would not hold their own in the future ?»s they have done in the past ; 8 but there is no race that [ever existed that could fight without food, and the English race, I think, least of all. We have noticed that last year you received from the United States 30,694,800 cwt. of wheat, and the same year you imported from the same quarter 15,905,100 cwt. of flour; from Russia you imported 17,241,600 cwt. of wheat, from Roumania 5,401,300 cwt., and from Turkey 1,930,400 cwt. I have calculated that if the United States and Russia were at war with our Empire — if such a thing should occur — those two nations control and could control 72,000,000 cwt. out of 91,321,100 cwt. which you import from all countries. It may be said that the export of food could not be stopped — that you could get it from other countries, but, gentlemen, in the whole history of the world, you have never had a similar condition of affairs. You cannot point out to me in all history a great nation that was ever in such a position as to its food supply that it had to rely on other and foreign and probably hostile countries. If you had absolute command of the sea, and you put it beyond all doubt that no foreign vessel could come near your ports, then you make England an impregnable fortress — more so than any other fortress. If England was absolutely impregnable from attack, and Russia and the United States were against you, what would they do? Would they say, " It has never been done " ? We should never do it, and Russia might not ; but the United States would say, " There is only one thing to do, and although it has never yet been done, we will do it." They would put an embargo around their country on the export of wheat. Would not Russia then do the same, and then where would you be ? If any gentleman knows how this aifficulty could be dealt with by England, I should be delighted to hear it. I have talked with some of the ablest men on this subject, and I have not yet heard a word as to how you could get food within fifteen months if such a state of things were to set in. We do not suggest in any way how you should get over this state of things, because there are various ways ; but there is one thing we should urge — that is, count as much as you Hke on having absolute command of the sea, but remember there is always fortune and chance in war. Your Navy might have three-quarters or one-half control, but you cannot be certain that it would have absolute control, and therefore the safest thing is to get within these islands as much wheat as you can get. Take any steps you like. People say that we are not likely to hnve war with Russia and the United States ; but if you are not likely to have war, why do you spend ;)/^4o,ooo,ooo a year on your Navy and Army and in the various measures you take to protect yourselves ? The point I wish to make, however, is this : you spend about ^^40,000, coo a year because you think that some day tliere may be war, but you do not spend a farthing to provide the food to make your position safe. You say that if you do that by putting a duty on everything that comes from other countries it will cost you something in your bread. Well, what if it does ? You are spending ;^4o,ooo,ooo a year in view of the possibility of war, and if you are not afraid why not save that money? What we wish to urge on you thoroughly impartially is this : We say, do for goodness sake have rome steps taken so that, in addition to your Army and Navy to guard you, the country may be made safer by having its food supply ensured should war break out. Some say that that can best be done by a duty outside. That would be the best way because a great deal of corn would then be grown here. You could have a duty inside the Empiie and a similar one for the benefit of the Empire out- side. You could do it by putting on a bounty. We suggest nothing, but all that we would ask you to do is to look into the matter closely, see if there is any danger, and then con- sider what is the best way for you in England (looking entirely into your own affairs and arrangements, and consider- ing your own interests) to get over that difficulty. Whatever you think is best will satisfy us. W^i do, however, say that at present this is a weak link in your armour. B lO Dr. Parkin : It is somewhat unexpected for me to find myself called upon to speak, for it was not until recently that I thought I should have any occasion to address you here. A little while ago, however, I was asked to say something on this point. Most of you know that I have paid a good deal of attention to matters connected with national questions, and just now in Canada one's attention is very much concentrated on these matters. It is immensely gratifying to see the extraordinary way in which ideas which a few years ago were half smiled at and half hoped for are suddenly flowering ; but there is no doubt that in various parts of the world there are enormous anxieties, accentuated by the conditions we now see around us, and I have come to the conclusion, after a great deal of observation and reflection, that the danger spot to the Empire at the present time is on the North American Continent. Dr. Parkin proceeded to speak in detail on the subject of the political situation in the United States, and of the present state of feeling towards this country, and concluded as follows : The one point at which Great Britain may be mortally wounded is the source of her food supplies. Tliat is across the Atlantic. If you dry up the source of supply you know the result. You know what it was in the case of Lancashire when the cotton supply was dried up. This idea of ours is urged without any aggressiveness, without any feeling other than that of self-preservation ; but our great Empire of peace must be enabled to be self-supporting. Mr. Small : I will not detain you but for a few minutes, but on the question of a naval reserve I should like to say a few words. We have on our Pacific and Atlantic coasts 75,000 men who are thoroughly competent sailors. What we want you to consider is that the Admiralty here shall allow these men — there are thousands of them, I believe, who could go — to be enrolled in the Royal Naval Reserve. In the winter many of them are on shore, and they could then get their shore training. Afterwards they could go for six TI months on board ship. I think there is a requirement that they must be six months on a man-of-war, and that they could also do in the winter season, and they could get their training on board. Unless they are trained now these men would be of no use if war broke out. Unless a man has been trained on a modern man-of-war he will be practically useless, and we urge that as soon as possible steps should be taken to induce the Admiralty to allow these men to be enrolled in the reserve and then get their training on our shores and afterwards afloat in England. Then they might be in case of war of great assistance in filling up the ranks. We know what naval experts tell us, that in any great naval engagement the loss of life would probably be very serioi^is, and we want large reserves to draw upon. I need not detain you longer. That is our pointy and if you can get the Admiralty to allow this thing to be done we shall have no difficulty in the matter with our Government in Canada. This subject has been discussed there, and is most popular, and it has been enthusiastically endorsed throughout the country. Sir Charles Tupper : I wish in the first instance to avail myself of the opportunity of coming before you as one of the deputation from one of your offsprings, the League in Canada, to congratulate this League most heartily upon the great progress it has made since I had the pleasure of meeting with the Council on the last occasion. I need not say, having regard as I do to the promotion of the unity of this great Empire, as one of the most important public matters that can engage the attention not only of public men but of every British subject within the Empire — I need not tell you the pleasure with which I have witnessed the great progress which this important League has made since, as I said before, I was last in England. I believe that you will succeed in continuing to draw around you the ablest and the best men of all parties and of all classes to be found in this great country, and that this organisation will become a most important factor in carrying out that great question of the promotion of the unity of the Empire. After the very clear statement made by our Chairman, the President of the League in Canada, and by Dr. Parkin, it is not necessary that I should detain you at any length. These gentlemen have put before you in a clear and succinct manner the importance they attach to this question of the food supplies. That is, as you know, so far as I am concerned, a very tempting question, because, although the platform of this British Empire League is sufficiently broad to hold gentlemen who are warm advocates and enthusiastic advocates, as I am, of preferential trade within the Empire, it is also broad enough to hold gentlemen who believe that anything that will in the least degree conflict with the free trade maxims of this country is objectionable. It is not necessary for membership or in order to hold any position with the British Empire League that either one view or the other should be held. I myself believe that there is no question that will continue to force itself more constantly and more effectively upon the minds of the people of this country than the means of promoting the unity of the Empire, by making it a common interest in the colonies and here in the heart of the Empire to co-operate in regard to those measures which, as I believe, lie at the very foundation of the future greatness of England. I cannot help thinking that in view of the very strong statements which have been made here to-day, and made by a gentleman who has given this subject the most careful consideration, and whose means of forming a proper judgment are second to none in this country, must necessarily attract a good deal of thought on the part of those who have listened to him. I am myself so averse to contemplate the possibility of war between the two English- speaking countries of the world that I can scarcely bring myself to entertain the idea of anything so horrible as that would be, but there is no doubt great force in what Dr. Parkin has said. We have, however, the satisfaction of 13 knowing that the United States is a country very much disposed to go as far as they think they can go with safety, and when the point is reached at which it does not become safe to go further they are capable of holding their hands. When the Venezuelan difficulty occurred and the people of this country and of Canada were startled at finding that that great nation — not one party in it, but all parties — was apparently prepared to adopt a course that might involve war with Great Britain — when that occurred a very remarkable result followed. It was found that both the great parties of the United States looked upon the acquisition of Canada as a point of importance to the United vStates of America — both the great parties in the United States look on that as the supremest object of their ambition. They want to be able to say that " No pent-up Utica contracts our powers, For the whole boundless continent is ours." It is the one subject upon which, in my judgment. Democrats and Republicans uniformly agree — that is, in their desire to annex Canada. They were foolish enough to believe that in case of any difficulty there was a large body of people in Canada who would like to become a portion of that great Republic, and they were surprised when they found on that important occasion not only that England adopted, and at the same time Germany adopted, a position of the most unqualified determination to with- stand any aggression on the part of the United States. And when they found every portion of the press in Canada and every public man o))posed to them — that, in fact, no person was to be found within the bounds of Canada that had the least degree of sympathy with them, or indicated the least disposition to countenance their aggression — I have no hesitation in saying that it produced a very marked effect ; and when they found that followed up immediately by the country deciding at the cost of several millions to arm the militia of the country with the most effective weapons, they came to the conclusion that there was not much hope of finding sympathy in Canada for such a movement. The prompt action of this country led to the prompt withdrawal of the United States from the position they had taken up. I hope that that may be the case in the future, although there is very much reason to fear, from what Dr. Parkin has mentioned as to the characteristics of a great portion of the population of the United States, that that cannot be relied on. We have in the recent Presidential election of the United States of America found the ablest and best men of both parties setting their faces against a course which they believed would lead to very serious consequences in the United States. While I am not without hope that the better elements of both parties in that country will combine against aggressive action, still, seeing how dependent this country is for its food supply, it is worth the consideration of the people of England that they have in Canada a great agricultural territory that is capable, by the sending of capital and people into it, of furnishing you in a very few years with all the bread and meat you require to import from any part of the world. I say that that, In my judg- ment, is a great source of relief, and the question of adopting such a policy as would lead to the development of that great agricultural possession of England, and in placing you in a position to meet any emergency of that kind is one that will continue to attract more and more attention, and it is the most effective means that can be adopted of rendering England, as it can be easily rendered, entirely independent of any part of the world except its own possessions. I do not intend to take up your time further than to congratulate you also, not only upon the great progress that this important British Empire League has made, but to congratulate you from the bottom of my heart upon the enormous exhibition of British power and prosperity and progress and influence that this great Jubilee year has presented. I believe that the peace of the world will be greatly promoted by the fact that foreign countries 15 have had an opportunity not only of seeing the thorough and complete unity of sentiment and communion of feeling in every possible way of the great outlying portions of the Empire and England, but have witnessed that great un- paralleled naval review. I therefore feel that this is especially an occasion on which you are to be heartily congratulated upon the existing condition of things ; and I hope that this i' )ortant British Empire League will go forward discharging the great work it has undertaken, and that it will be successful in doing that which every Canadian would heartily rejoice in promoting — the unity of this great Empire. Colonel Denison : I am very sorry Sir Donald Smith is not here. We have come a very long way to talk with you. If there are any questions you require to ask, or if there is any point of our argument which you would like any explanation upon, we will gladly answer now we are here. The Chairman r Is there any gentleman who is dis- posed to accept the invitation of Colonel Denison? I have no doubt that he would elicit some further interesting state- ments if he did. Colonel Denison : It just struck me in speaking about the food supplies that some gentleman maybe here who has some idea how the food supplies could be got if Russia and the United States were to stop theirs. Sir Charles Tupper: There is one point which I omitted to mention that fell from Mr. Small v/ith respect to the Navy. Canada possesses at least 75,000 able-bodied seamen, and in case of necessity they would be able to form no unimportant contribution to the naval power of England, because it is well known to every person that the fact of being accustomed to the high seas is a great step in advance where you have to extemporise a large body of seamen ; but I may say that the suggestion which has been made that i6 measures should be taken to give instruction on naval matters in Canada is a very important one. Of course the different portions of the Empire are very differently situated. We all rejoice to see the magnificent manner in which the Cape has come forward and presented such a handsome Jubilee gift to the fleet of Her Majesty in the shape of a first-class battleship. It must not, however, be forgotten that Canada possesses some of the most valuable fisheries in the world, and no kis than 10,000 miles of sea coast, which she is obliged to protect by the construction, main- tenance, and supi)ort of a large number of steam cruisers. In addition to that our position is a very different one from that of the Cape or of Australasia, as you will at once see when I remind you of the fact that we lie with a boundary of some 3,000 miles in extent separating us from a foreign country of 65^ millions of people. Our position is therefore very different from that of the Cape or Australia, but I do think that advantage might be taken of acting on the suggestion of Mr. Small by having effective training given to Canadian seamen. The Chairman : With respect to the food supply I should like to ask Colonel Denison and the deputation if they are able to throw any light on the statement which appeared in the press not very long ago that a powerful party in the United States were likely to advocate success- fully the imposition of a bounty on the export of wheat. That would contract the question of the food supply con- siderably. On the one hand it might assure us that wheat would be cheaper, but, on the other hand, I have no doubt that what Colonel Denison would say is that it would tend still further to ruin our wheat production for the time, and make it unnecessary that we should try and develop our own sources of supply. Colonel Denison : I have heard that it may be quite possible if the United States think that they can ruin the 17 English farmers they will do it. If the bounty system were adopted it would be a great blow to you and to Canada. You would every day be getting weaker and weaker, and in greater danger every year if they put on bounties. For that very reason, however, I think it would be a most popular idea with them. (Laughter.) Sir John Lubbock : I rise to move a vote of thanks to our friends from Canada who have been good enough to come here. When I look at them I can hardly regard them as a deputation from Canada, as I remember that in our early days Colonel Denison and Sir Charles Tupper were two of our own most earnest and useful supporters. Still, they are to-day among us with the deputation, and we welcome them very cordially in that respect. I do not quite agree with what Colonel Denison said as to reporting what has been said, because I think a great deal has been usefully said that might be of advantage if it were published, using perhaps a little discretion. Colonel Denison lias brought before us three points to-day. The first had reference to the Belgian and German treaties. I am not prepared to express an opinion whether those treaties would prevent the policy of Canada from being carried out, but I am quite myself of opinion that if they would do so the treaties ought to be denounced, and what is more, I believe they would be denounced. (Cheers.) I do not know whether we could move in the matter having regard to the peculiar fact that the Duke of Devonshire, Lord Salisbury and Mr. A. J. Balfour would make representa- tions to themselves if the League approached the Government. At the same time, perhaps, that is a dif- ficulty which could be got over, and I think it would be a very useful thing for this League to take some step in that direction. The second point had reference to utiHsing the large amount of excellent material there is in the 7S,ooo Canadian seamen referred to. There, I think, on principle, we should probably be agreed also with the deputation. x8 There may be some difficulties in anticipation, but I think there is great force in what the deputation has brought before us, and I think we should very much sympathise with their views. The third question is one of more difficulty. For my own part if there really is any question of putting a bounty on the export of wheat from the United States I should look on that as a reductio ad absurduniy because to protect everything is to protect nothing. But no doubt what has been said by the deputation, as the French say, "gives us to think." If we have to consider the point, it is one of very great importance, but I should not be afraid of anything that any country could do unless the United States M^ere to join in the attack upon us, because I believe if any attempt were made on the part of other countries to prevent our getting our food supplies the interest of the United States and their conservative constant policy with respect to goods in neutral bottoms would make them insist on their right to import more into this country. I cannot help thinking that the interests of the farmers of the United States will be likely to pre- vent the United States from putting an embargo on the export of wheat. " I should doubt whether any party in the United States would be powerful enough to carry such a policy as that, and if they would be able to prevent wheat from coming to us over the border of Canada. But, no doubt, it is a question which requirt s careful considera- tion. We have always found hitherto that any rise in price brings us supplies of many articles we want from the most unexpected places. As to sugar, the moment there is any change, any rise in the price, sugar comes to us from parts of the world which we had no reason to expect would supply us ; and one very important consideration which I should look to as tending to ensure us our supplies of wheat would be that any rise in the price of wheat would be such a temptation on the part of other countries to supply us with what we wanted that I should be inclined to think it not a very great source of danger. At the same ^9 time it has been truly said that a supply of food is neces- sary for all nations, and particularly to our own, and while alluding to those circumstances which prevent me from feeling so apprehensive as some of my friends may be on the subject, still, I feel that we are greatly indebted to the deputation from Canada for bringing this question prominently before us. I have always thought that one of the great reasons for establishing some such a League as this, for endeavouring to bring together the different parts of the Empire into closer relations, has been that we cannot quite foresee at what point we may be threatened, and where the next difficulty may arise. We are told to-day that it is likely to be on the North American continent. That may be, and if so it might be dif- ficult to induce our fellow-countrymen in South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand to see the great importance of contributing to prevent danger in such a remote part of the world. We ought to provide against danger of this sort by organising our forces and making our strength as well adapted for use as possible before the danger arises, and before we see what part of the Empire is likely to be threatened, and what part the most easily defended. We have had congratulations as to the progress of this League, and certainly I think that Sir Charles Tupper or Colonel Denison, or any other friend here to-day, would scarcely have ventured to hope a few years or even months ago that we should be in the i)osition we are. That we are so is due to the encouragement we receive from the colonies, and especially from Canada. That is another reason why I would welcome our friends to-day. I think we should be probably agreed as to two of the suggestions they have made. As to the third, I have ventured to make a few observations, not with any idea of minimising their suggestion, but simply because we are met here for consultation and to point out the different aspects of the case as they present themselves to us. I have very much pleasure in suggesting that we pass a 20 resolution thanking our friends for their presence here to-day. (Cheers.) Mr. Faithfull Begg : It gives me very great pleasure indeed to be permitted to second this resolution. I confess I had some little apprehension in my mind in regard to to-day's meeting, because I know that some of our friends in Canada hold very strong — I might say even very pronounced — views on certain questions, and I thought that if they were to urge on us action in any particular direction such as I have indicated we might have found ourselves in a somewhat difficult position. This League has been exceedingly fortunate in the progress it has made with its organisation, and reasons have been mentioned by previous speakers which make it very necessary for us to proceed warily and cautiously before we take up any pronounced line of action. In seconding this resolution I think I may say that for two reasons I have very great pleasure in being present to-day and having the opportunity of saying a few words. This subject, as some of you know, perhaps, is one to which I have devoted a certain amount of attention in the past, and it is of excessive interest to me personally. This opportunity brings also to my recollection — and this is my second reason — that I have just had reason for visiting not only Canada but the United States, and also that distant island in the Pacific to which Dr. Parkin referred in his remarks. For these two reasons I feel ■exceptional interest in this subject. I am particularly glad that we have not been asked to-day to endorse any specific plan. The speakers have put before us the difficulties of the situation, and they have not exaggerated, I believe, the difficulty in which this country is placed in connection with this all-important question of our food supply, but they have contented themselves in stating what is the difficulty, and they have mentioned suggestions as to how the difficulty may be dealt with. They have not, however, put us in the difficulty of deciding on any course to be adopted. 21 I think we are on absolutely safe ground in thanking them for their remarks, as it will be remembered by all that this very subject was debated at considerable length (juite- recently in the House of Commons, and that body, with practical unanimity — if not unanimity -adopted a resolution which brought under notice this very question of the danger of the country in connection with the food supply,, and the Government, if I remember aright, admitted the gravity of the case, and the House of Commons had a promise from them of their earnest consideration. There- fore in stating the case as a case of urgency and one requiring immediate attention, we shall not be travelling outside anything that has been done by the House of Commons, and which is before the country for that reason. There is one other matter which I should like to refer to,, but in a sentence. I cannot help feeling — and other speakers will excuse me if I say so — that the particular matter brought under our notice by Dr. Parkin, the relationship of this country to the United States, and. the condition of internal feeling in the United States with respect to this country and with respect to Canada — that that question is one of supreme importance to us, and I am delighted that we have had an opportunity of having stated to us so shortly, so concisely, and so admirably, the position in connection with that matter. I had an oppor- tunity when travelhng in the United States of having, brought under my notice the problem which Dr. Parkin has discussed, and I remember, after returning to this country, that I ventured in a speech to point to this very question as an element of danger, and I was taken to task for doing so. There is no doubt that Dr. Parkin has not exaggerated the condition of things politically in the United States, nor the danger that exists to England and to Canada arising from that state of things. We ought therefore to weigh carefully what he has said. I do not think he has said anything that need not be reported. I have very great pleasure in seconding this 22 resolution. I think I have never been present at a meeting that has been more businesslike than this. Everyone has directed his remarks strictly to the point, has been short, crisp, and pointed, and I think that not one of us has wasted a single moment. Mr. Becket Hill : In supporting the motion, I should like to say a word on the recent financial policy of Canada — a policy which has in a great measure led to that colony taking a prominent seat here, a policy indicated by their Premier, and with a degree of success which has provoked, I have noticed, a little envy from others of our great colonies. The question of the food supply of this country depends, I think, in a great measure on the development of cultivation in Canada. We know, as our friends tell us, the enormous prairie grounds there are there which are suitable for the supply of food. It is, no doubt, one of the coming questions whether something in the shape of a preferential duty should not be levied in favour of food supplies from our colonies, so that agriculture in Canada and Australia can be developed. The people of the United States might annex Canada in a more peaceful way by crossing the border, and growing what we want in the shape of food supplies. One of the reasons why Canada has taken a pro- minent seat here has been that we have looked forward to the lowering of the tariff of Canada on behalf of this country as a magnanimous step in advance that we were hardly pre- pared for. Our Canadian friends are known as somewhat hard-headed, and very reluctant to give away anything without something in return. I have been told, however, that the lowering of the tariff by twelve-and-a-half per cent, this year, and twenty-five per cent, next year has led to no improvement between the trade of this country and Canada ; indeed, that trade has rather diminished than increased. I have made inquiries and found that such is the protection system of Canada that the mere alterations of twelve-and-a- half per cent, and twenty-five percent, do not enable England 23 to compete with protection in Canada. Let us hope that they will not " make a promise to the ear and deny it to our hope." The Chairman : It is proposed by Sir John Lubbock, seconded by Mr. Faithfull Begg, and supported by Mr. Becket Hill, that the thanks of the council be given to our friends, the deputation from Canada, for being present this afternoon, and for the very excellent exposition they have given us on those points which they desired to bring under our notice. This vote was unanimously carried. The Chairman ; This concludes the formal business of the meeting, but before we depart Colonel Innes wishes to propose a motion. 'Colonel Innes : I will not detain the meeting at this late hour for a single moment. I have to bring forward a motion, which I think will meet with the hearty congratula- tions of all present. " That the thanks of the Council be given to the secretary, Mr. Freeman Murray, for the able and energetic manner in which he has assisted the executive committee during the visit of our guests, the Colonial Premiers, and others to this country." I knew Mr. Free- man Murray when I was president of the Kensington branch of the Imperial Federation League. Mr. Murray was my right-hand man, and had it not been for him th.t important branch of the Imperial Federation League would never have been formed Dr. Culver James : I shall be very pleased to secon« that. I have had the opportunity of watching Mr. Freeman Murray's work for a great many years, and have alway . found that he has not only done his work very well indeed. 24 but in such a way as to meet with the approval and sympathy of all those with whom he came into contact. The Chairman : It is a motion which I have the greatest pleasure in putting to you, because I, as chairman of the executive, have had the privilege and pleasure of working with Mr. Murray, and I know that not a word too much has been said by the two previous speakers in his favour. The resolution was carried by acclamation. Mr. Murray : I am very much obliged to you,, gentlemen. Colonel Denison : Before we leave I desire on behalt of the deputation to thank you for the very kind reception, you have given us and your patient hearing of us. The proceedings then terminated.