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|-£otise of Commons Sl^^p^t 
 
 THIRD Sl-,SSION-Si;\^i:\T!l I'M 
 
 SPEECH OF HON. G. 
 
 REPLY IN CLOSING BUDGET DEBATE 
 
 TUESDAY, 28111 !• JvURUAllY, 181):!. 
 
 Mr. POSTER. Au apology is certainly duo 
 to the riouso, after ten ilay.s of a long dis- 
 cussion upon this tariir policy, for asldng it 
 at this lato p(>rio(l in tlio discussion to listen 
 a second time to any reinarlis from myself. 
 However, it becomes necessary that I .should 
 say a few words, not only in reply to my 
 lion, friend who has just sat down, but also 
 m reply to several points wliieh have been 
 raised by lion, gentlemen who have spcjken 
 from tlu! beginning of tlie debate imtil this 
 time. Happily, I am not under obligation to 
 occupy the attention of this House at very 
 great length in tliat respect, for neith(>r (he 
 cogency nor tlie uoveltj' ot the arguiu.'nts 
 whicli have betMi addressed to the liou.se by 
 hon. gentlemen opposite call for, in most cases, 
 any lengthy reply ; and 1 must also say that 
 most of tliose arguments have been 'fully, 
 fairly and comphnely met, not only maiiy 
 times before in tliis House, but during this 
 present debate by hon. gentlemen who sit 
 on this side. 
 
 IS IT KHKI-; I'llADK ? 
 
 First, I wisli to pay my respects fur 
 a tvw nmiiicats to lh(> hon. gentleman who 
 has just taken his seat. My lion, friend li;is 
 been going al)out tlio country sounding tlie 
 praises and trump(>ting the coming tiiumpli 
 of free trade. To-niglit Ids vaunted free trade 
 with all its breadtli of vision and majesty of 
 thought has resolvetl itself into tr.ich; witli 
 ono country, to the exclusion, by restrictions, 
 of trade with every other iu tlie world. Be- 
 fore his Toronto and Hamilton audiences 
 he breathed the spirit of a wider atmos- 
 phere. He pointed to the batllelields of the 
 L'ulleii Stales, and lie declared iluii fliere 
 had been fought and won the second victory, I 
 not for " frc'edom of trade " as he haltiugiy 
 tells us to-night, but for " free trade " and 
 rising ou the height and expanding on the 
 
 I brcadtli of tliat glorious vidory for free trade 
 : in tlie United States, he unfolded th(> curtains 
 of prophecy and declari.;d that tlie tliird great 
 country in tlie world to adopt free trade 
 I would be the Dominion of Canada. But to- 
 , night. Sir, my lion, friend talks small, very 
 I small, indeed. His vision is blinded to the won- 
 derful commerce of Great Britain, his vision 
 is VMndtHl to tlie wonderful scope of a com- 
 mercial ■\\orld beyond tlie seas in every otlier 
 country iu the globe, and he is willing, for 
 the .sake of mirestricted fnie trad« witli tlie 
 United States to raise a Cliinese wali against 
 G-eat Britain and every otiier countrv in the 
 I world. For in all liis long speech to-night has 
 I he used two paragraplis of argument in fa- 
 I vour of free tnide, and luis not liis wliole 
 speech been an apology for unr(>stricto.l 
 reci])rocit^', upon which he has alreadv met 
 significant defeat and upon wliicli lie will re- 
 ceive siguilicuiit defeat yet iu ilie future? 
 The hon. gentleman did several tilings to- 
 night. He was pleasant and sometimes witty, 
 but at no time very forceful in hi-i remarks 
 01 liis arguments, if I am alile to .judge. He 
 told a very good story ab«ut King !r,imes, but 
 ho sliowed he did not properly ajipreciato 
 it, because he made tlie a pplic.it ion wrongly. 
 ITo should have m.ule the ajiplicitiou to him- 
 self and his frimids, who Ikivc brought up 
 these theories year after ye.ir. from commer- 
 cial union fo C(mtiueutal frt'e trade, and al- 
 though the people have not agreed with them, 
 although the pcopli; have rejected them, 
 althougli the people have conclusivelv re- 
 solved against them by their votes, vet hon. 
 gentlemen opposite, hke King .Tauies, still 
 declare that thc.s.' exploded theories are tlio 
 only true ones, and they still dephiy them 
 before llie public view again and again. 
 
 I'lII-: KXODUS, 
 
 The hon. gentleman found fault with ca new, 
 law of gravitiition, which, ho said, I have tils- 
 
 £a 
 
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covereil, aud ho coinpnrt'd me to a second Now- 
 ton. There must be, he stiys. according to my 
 doctrine, some centre ot attraction out ii the 
 ■west tliat draws people Inevitably iruin 
 the east towai-ds the west He said 
 he did not believe that cou'd be true, 
 because the fact was that the peo- 
 ple instead of going from east to west were 
 going from north to south. I would adviSe 
 my hon. friend to take a map aud look along 
 the lines of parallels of latitude riumlng 
 through Quebec, Ontario and New Brunswick 
 and the Unltetl States, and ho will find two 
 trends of emigration or transfer, fronj this 
 country aud from the eastern states. lie 
 will find a trend going pretty neai-ly due 
 west, along the same zone, along pretty 
 nearly the same lines of latitude; and he will 
 find a trend going from north to south so far 
 as these provinces are concerned and to 
 the United States on the south of us. My 
 hon. friend, although he treated this in a 
 light and aliy way, and not at all, as I think, 
 according to the merits of the subject, will 
 And, if he deals fairly and honestly with it, 
 that these trends are not fanciful, but they 
 are real, that he cannot get rid of them by 
 ridicule and by any protended law of gravi- 
 tation I have discovered or not discovered, for 
 those two trends are absolutely fixed by two 
 things,— land hunger, which takes peo- 
 ple to the great prairies of the west, and 
 employment hunger, which takes tliem to tlie 
 crowded factory townb to the south of us. If 
 there are 1,000 people who go from Canada 
 to the west, 999 of them go from land hun- 
 ger; and if there are 1,000 who go from Can- 
 ada to the factory towns to the south, 999 go 
 for employment to towns where industries 
 hum, aud where the wheels of the factories 
 resound from day to day. My hon. friend 
 may make fun of my theory of gravitjUlou 
 so long as he pleases ; tliese ai-o, I think, 
 common sense facts, which he onl other 
 people will have to face, and of whUih most 
 people will admit the force aud cogency at 
 once. If that be ti-ue, he must not ridicule 
 me because I have explained the movement 
 of population upon these two pilnclples, 
 upon those two sets of facts. I think ho wUl 
 fmd them to bo trae, and the two lessons I 
 gather from them are, that Canada lost lu the 
 early migration, because she had not a great 
 west of her own where people could appca.ie 
 their land hunger ; and that if she loses her 
 population in the other direction to-c!ay, It 
 Is because wo have not had, and liave not 
 sufBclent factories and industries in order 
 to give employment to the people who hunger 
 for employment. So much wiOi regard to 
 that point. The hon, gentleman, however, 
 has foimd a scientiflc and philosopliical rea- 
 son, and It is this : People do not go west 
 because they himger for land, nor do they 
 go south because of want of employment In 
 the cotton iTiills .and fn/Ttr>ri<i« na so 
 many of his own countrymen do. 
 Oh, no, there !s .another reason : They go 
 west, and they go south, for this, and this 
 
 olone ; that In this country they are sadly 
 oppres8o<l, and they fly south and they fly 
 west to the land of freedom, <where there are 
 no burdens, and where all conditions are 
 light and happy and peaceful. Now, 
 that may satisfy my hon. friend, and 
 ho may prefer that, to my science of 
 gravitation, but I doubt if tliere are 
 many sensible men who will agree vdth 
 Jilm In that explanation. The people are 
 oppressed here ! In what way ? By taxes ? 
 Why, the iKm. gentleman exploded his own 
 theory, bncauae he proved to his own satls- 
 I'ac^tlon, and ho must have proved it to the 
 Infinite discomfiture of my hon. friend from 
 North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton), and my hon. 
 frl(>nd from South Oxford (Sir Rlchai-d Cart- 
 wi-lghl) ; lie proved that the farmers lu the 
 United States of America, that the people of 
 the United States, except the manufacturers, 
 w(a*e ground down into dust aud ashes 
 by the fiscal policy of that country. 
 0|)preNHi><l lu>re because a moderate JiO per 
 (uMit tarllT Is upon them ; and they fly away 
 whore they can feel the lighter weight of a 60 
 per cent tariff ! Oppressed here, where their 
 direct tuxes are light, and going there where 
 they can have a lighter burden of three or four 
 times tlie amoimt of direct taxation upon 
 them ! Why. my hon. friend must have 
 taken leave of seriousness when he advanced 
 an argument of that Idnd. Well, Sir, if he 
 did not prove! that this was true, to his own 
 satlsl'acllon, he evidently did prove to his 
 own satisfnctlon that he told a witty anu 
 fanciful story. When he brought In that 
 personage of old, who took up his time m 
 (Stunting 007 widows, and one doubtful one. 
 What that may have had to do with the sub- 
 ject before us I cannot say, but I am bound 
 to assert this : That if that solitary watcher 
 had been my hon. friend who has just sar 
 down, he would not have let that doubtrui 
 woman go imtll he had found out her exact 
 status. 
 
 TIIK CKNSUH KKJl'RES ON INDUSTRIES. 
 
 The hon gentleman hesitates to believe 
 certain figures of the census. He is 
 an eclectic, Is my hon. friend. He takes up 
 the Holy Bible, and he tjikes out one part of 
 the doctrine and he s.ays : That suits me ; I 
 believe In the divinity and inspiration of the 
 ScM'liitures. He turns over another lear. 
 Ah, this does not suit him, and he says : I do 
 not believe In the divinity or inspiration of tho. 
 Scriptures. He takes tip the census rettims, 
 and as ho chants his doleful dirges about the 
 exodus, and proves them from the census, ah, 
 then tJie census Is divinely Inspired, and It is 
 authorltntlvely correct. There can be no 
 doubt about its accuracy at all then, but 
 when he comes to the Industries, compiled 
 under the very same rules, by the very same 
 set; of people, published in the same printing 
 Offlee. ntifl imder the auspices of the snTne 
 doverniiient, he declares fliat it is ftiil ot 
 wickiHlness, and all hypocrisy, and he will not 
 believe It at all. But my hon. friend can- 
 
3 
 
 or „o down ZV'lC"'£7\;\^,rTi^'' '^i'Sm'^I^^^^^ " "'""-""M 
 
 (KX) in the cnnlf'il nf 1. 1 !. , ^ ''''^•^'"OO,- «l9\n<iririnn , "^'•'^"I Capital Invoatnri . 
 
 what he says with rofor^nA^.^ 'l.*^ •'""ect in 
 
 >"uch was watered stook t "".^ ^""^^ ^'"^^ 
 aow muoh ha been s mk 'h,'f° '^° "°^ '^'""^ 
 If he looks back to ms^ h*""^- ^ «"PI'"«« 
 «nmo remarks with rJS vl to X T''' '''" 
 that year. Stanclln-iin i. iVi ^"* ,<'''"S'i»' or 
 Ihe Increased fism^^ of t he fn^' "'"3 '"^^''"^ "t 
 ment In these Industrie^ ,i°"i\' "^ *"^^'st- 
 then : You do not b„ ' \"^ °°"^'* have said 
 
 bofpre, Well,°f tl^^^r ^'l ^"L'i^™ «"nl^ 
 
 "'hat belays wirrofer!^ ^.^'^ J«correc ^ 
 000 depression had '^n,«'^f *" "'« ?125,oo<., 
 
 this countiT th,t «7o-<i!^^ "" '"fhistrles m 
 boon .?2^,oS6.0W * But''T;"^' '."'^"* "'^-^ 
 -^ ■■ 'oaknoss of Id^.^^-''^^^"- /'•'«»« 
 
 ca.se Of the year llm°Vh " ^'^'^^ ^"''^ '° the 
 reference to t^fe ceS of 1I«J1™'"^. '^°"1 ^^'"l' 
 the average <l^S"n^ ^o?,??^^^.?;'' 
 
 saw the weakness of ids or,^',^"^ ?°°- 'f'''^"" 
 attempted to prove that S^T* ' ""^^ "« ^'^ 
 farm values came fr^r!^ '"'' depression In 
 ho logically mZ" omZaTT^' *^'^''' «« 
 that the same thins tool' „7^ *^'^, '^'^ *" «how 
 States. That w^f hTiVinf *° ^l'^ "^'tea 
 my hon. friend. W),eri J™^ C"'"' task for 
 
 before. " WeTl "rthlnv T''^ ^"« ^f™ s"nlv State^^'^hT ™°^ took pIaceVthe"rTnu°^ 
 
 probably bT^lu't Iven "IfThev^^^ ^""''^h^ ''on. ttlU'^^x^^^'-^' "°'l^^^^ 
 
 ca.se of the year 1891 thev 5n«t h'' i'"" the mercy ? Kv"?- „^^'t '^'""'^ ^s bowels of 
 
 E=2 ;s.s?™- i^?ri'x™;i' snsxrFv^s .Kri 
 
 FARMEUS .A.VD FARM valuKS. 
 
 man fz;mToi:rNo..T «^ the hon ge;. 
 Who, the otheT*5ay^"rJo^ Z*'"- ^'"'^'^^on) 
 
 - ■■•'"■" vALUE.s. that the farmera Af *.? ^°"'"« to prove 
 
 But the hon. gentlemnn ... ^^'•'■•o pr,)snorfn,« t^ ^ *^® United states 
 
 theory. I tbini frnST^r^, f "■ "^^^^^-^ *'^'^'r lot was «« V« !J '°->^ln»™. and that 
 my hon. friend from « I. ^"J?*'*^'tfro.ucoidd be Hero ?P^ ''"f^- «s peaceful as if 
 
 Richard Cartwrlght)'^-hoho«,9-V*'"^ («'r 'riend tonighT'nd .v.fn °" "^^ iconochjst 
 up some wonder^l nhi^nse^ ™ ^"".^^^^ picked vvithout a stogie hnn,^""* '"^ ^^'t-ed of p v 
 wealth is not thVcrStlon of ^'P'?r'"*^'^*'>t'M^°°'^s to pS tW»« of sympathy, fe 
 come to that a littfe HteT AfvT"^" . ^ ^iU friend had erected ^^T. '^'^^''^" "'v hou 
 theory is- iTinVTi.i" i " ..^ ^°°- friend's tlie United ^tVf^l'. ^'^'^ declares tintT,,' 
 
 hicr^se in Sfe £dufJJ..?"'■^ ^ ^ ^'' an lot is teSblf *1 "f ^'^^'^^'^ the farmed 
 there ha.s been !v womSS f^^^Wishments, dark as Erebus S-k^fl''"* ^^^ Pleto'e. m 
 value of farmera- lands w^. decrease in the yet may I n",l' m^'^'if'''^ the Shades aiw 
 cent, taking irlll thro'".'? ''^^^^'-^P'''"^'^'-''''^-^T^^^^ statement to my hon 
 
 satisfaction ho s?ates^ffh"f, *° i^'^ °^^»M^* ''^'^y ^^ethfllnT,^^' ^''«t four'^yeara 
 of $125,000,000 in the ^mi *"?? *^ ^ decrease vulture of tliis ,m,.n .^ ^7" ^^^ars, while rm^ 
 self as observ.aut and .IS r!f,\-^? P''°'^^« ^^- ^^^tes was eatW nX*"*^""" '° the United 
 spect as did tlie lone w.ft?. *'^"i^'" '"^ *^«t re- while that was th^n ^^"^ "''^^ of the fanners 
 ^vidows. He declares « nfn'' S°^ *^^«° 967 these five y^are mv^"''' ""l ''"^ time withS' 
 lost $125.000,0W,''whl^^ n,or/'\T'^''" '^'^^T'^'^ «i« f«r^er?'of Cnn.!^" f'"'''"^! ^ould ilfS 
 
 S5S^Sd^S^^~>^-S:eotSte kI 
 
 mente. paid cert^n^vlges '4?S.f ^»^"«'^- L^ "^^ r^^^tiS^ ^ tl"^^"^,^; ,^^^ow, "S^^ 
 vided a market for the f-nn,',nlSr tl^^eby pro- ffive that i-eason fm- « ', ""^ ^e «>uld not 
 added to his retunir/T«?l^>5^'^"^ts, and The sequent of h^^^ depnjoiation tWg 
 
 In other words wn,L n *^ii* ^^^ reason ? Inevitably to thii^f?'^?'""^^' ^omd lead Wm 
 to laads TaVe' aTvSced nr'T'"^' value Protectio^ £ Sa^a dL'/ '"^ ^««««r degree^ 
 kept from tills S«M.f. ^'^^® l>een M^ certain extent .,n,i^'™^,^ the farmers to 
 had been no cotton^ n?i^"°°' , ^ t^ere Protection to SGTrniL''Lf ^'^''^^i' degree of 
 foundries I^ tWs ^un^rv , T^l, .°° iron UmU more, where sh^^,"^ ''i*^ ^^"t^oystLm 
 I thhik that you ^ 2J J}^"^ ^ot. m ^vhich thmr do ,mi '^®J^<^ the pnradJ^ 
 to«n where tw ^ ^^ ^^'^t 1^ every Preciatlon aiXi^^ *l^ '^'^er t^ie aime df! 
 mimitv tw *^'^1". «° onterpristog conf-Iaro nZji^l,^^^^ "^l^on, but in wS-* «!^t 
 
 mPTif "«*"ir'j„'v; oii^ous roi' the oatnhuc-h'nn a 1-:^^^.' ':':''"' !"!« huDDv V x-^,.;:;-: ■;■ ■- 
 
 to«n wheretC-n , ^^ "'^t to evert 
 
 mimitv tZt i;„^'^-J_^. "° enterprising com- 1 are nr;^o;r."^"'"°''on, but in whi/^^w 
 
 ment of industrier^itht ^«' ^"^ establish- I'm a free' trade "^m'tf,il . ^"^JP-^ '' Evldentlv 
 
 tliat town, andT?orrcit%^airv?°t*l,.°' '^Zf^^^^'^^'^'^'S S^^L^ -n£ 
 
 that townrand a town r' ,J^°, prectocte of 
 
 every time that n elfn.^'^ ^^^/ ^ «"ve to-day 
 
 for a location %Z^l^ *"2"'*'^ *« looking 
 
 uiuon. They give bonuses to order 
 
 n>ai XomdXvTS 'ar *> ^"^ ^'^ 
 h.appy and prospeiS^jofS- ^h ^^"^ ^ ^^ 
 Great Brltata. He ^uld ? <^^ farmers of 
 
 14 
 
t,lines, haitler tliau we, and If our farmers 
 have had hard times, yet, If you want to find 
 the Iiardest of hard timcH, the most depressed 
 of depretsslonti, the moat unhappy eituailcn 
 of a«rkniltiu'e, vou have only to iifo lo Grciit 
 BrltiUn, the home of free trade. But my hon. 
 fWond had to tiud a nsiison why his argument 
 did not work there, and of all reasons he gave 
 one whloh I should ha,ve supposed he would 
 have bet'u most carofid to steer clear of. What 
 Is his argument ? Land, he says. Is iUl mono- 
 poliseii in England at least It used to be ; tlie 
 noblemen have got it ; tlie aristocrats have 
 made deer parks of it ; they will not allow the 
 land to go into cultivation ; and Avliat should 
 be the effect ? That the Utile land that does 
 go Into cultivation ought to rate at high 
 values. That is the hievitable result of his 
 argument ; but the hon. gentleuuui says that 
 these aristocrats gobble up the land and hold 
 it for deer parks, and Lf a fai-mer hiis an acre 
 of free land or land that he pays a rent for, 
 these aristocrats cari-y their spiteful feeling so 
 far that they grind him down with taxaition. 
 The argument \vill not work. The hon. gen- 
 tleman showed how the rentiil price of land 
 in England has diminished ; but if he will read 
 more on that subject, if he will go to England 
 and travel there, he will tind that to-day limd 
 owner after laud o^vner offers to tenants their 
 land without tlie rent of a single pcmiy if 
 they will only keep it in order and take oare 
 of it, and pay its tithes, and they can- 
 not find farmers to take it even at 
 that piico. That is so ; I know it to 
 be true. Well, Sir, it is a favourite 
 metliod of argument with hon. gentlemen 
 opposite that when they cannot lind real men 
 to knock down they Avill set up straw men 
 to luiock tliem down ; and so my hon. fnend, 
 having fouudei-etl on the ai'gument in regard 
 to the farm values, gi-avely declared tliat the 
 National Policy had for its promoters men 
 who held foi^ to the people that the 
 National PoUcy would bring the price of 
 wheat up to fl.50 per bushel. WeU, Sir, it 
 may be that some misguided person in an 
 exuberance of enthusiasm on the stmnp in a 
 moment of weakness may have said it would 
 do this. Hon. gentlemen oppo.slte have their 
 moments of waikness In that respect. I my- 
 self have lieai-d them make some most as- 
 tounding prophecies and promises, which have 
 never been, and cannot be, fulfilled ; but I am 
 not going to say that l>ecause some few of 
 them' failed in that direction the whole 
 party propaganda must absolutely rest or 
 fall upon the fulfihnent of tliose prophecies. 
 Neither is it fair for my hon. fi-iend to say, 
 and he cannot put it forwaixl seriously, that 
 because some person said that the Natiomil 
 Policy would make wheat go up to $1.50 a 
 bushel, therefore, the National Policy, not 
 having done that, wheat not being at ttiat 
 price now. the Naitional Policy is a failure and 
 ought no longer +0 be susliiliied. iNows ho 
 declares onenly, and he has done it often 
 thait no legislation can increase the price of 
 wheat or other cei-eals. By the way, 1 must 
 
 ask my hon. friend to tJike particular care of 
 
 hLs new adlierent, luls younges't recruit, the 
 lion, memlicr for L'Islet. I h:ul tlie curiosity 
 to i-ead fliat hon. meanber's card, Avliich he 
 issued to his constituency. He road It to us 
 here the other night. Wlitit is the llrat line 
 of it ? The hou. goutleman pledges him- 
 self to have legislation introduced which shall 
 raise the value of llio fanners' products, and 
 he also pledges himself that the hon. leader 
 of the Opposition will leave two or three 
 columns standing In the temple of tlie National 
 PoUcy. Now, I want to ask my lion, friend 
 if he has had an undei-stauding with the hon. 
 member for L'Isllet ? Did he really ngrt>o 
 and authorize Mm to say ho would introduce 
 legislation to raise Uic. value of the fanners' 
 pi'Otlucts ? What are the columns that he 
 Is going to let stiiiid in this temple of pro- 
 tection ? I will leave that between my hon. 
 friends. I have no doubt thiit they Avill come 
 to an agreement iiefore this session la over. 
 But, Sir, how would fic~ trade, Suppose we 
 had it to-day, inci-oase the prices of the pro- 
 ducts' of the farm ? You say tliat the price 
 of wheat is low to-day— why ? Bemuse the 
 production of wheat lU tlie world, measured 
 by tlie demand, is greater in proportion, and 
 consequently the price falls. Bring in free 
 trade, and what is it going to do ? Bhiet a 
 certain iiortion of the Wheat fields ; make the 
 quantiity less, and thereby bring it closer 
 to the demand, and thus raise ' the price ? 
 That is the only way It can bo done. But 
 my hon. friend may have had a fear of that, 
 and so is not going to introduce free trade, 
 but only uni-ostricted reciprocity. 
 
 TIIK FAHMKHH' taxes. 
 
 In that case I am afraid tliat the 
 lion. gentleman would only fall on 
 the liorn of his own dilemma, for 
 he declares that once protection is 
 introduced down goes the value of land, 
 while he promises the farmers that under 
 unrestricted reciprocity, which means a 
 higher protection and greater restriction 
 ! than wo have now, the value of land and 
 ] land products will rise. WeU, Sir, there 
 was a vein running through my hou. 
 j friend's remark which is not a new one. It 
 I has been a sort of gospel on the p;irt of all 
 hon. gentlemen opposite. They have, as my 
 hon. friend from Charlotte would say, " taken 
 a great cant tow^irds Biddy." They have 
 " taken a cant " upou the line of solicdtudo 
 for the farmer, and if there Is one tMng thai; 
 they preach to-tlay It is the farmer's do- 
 presse<l condiitlon, and they propose to be 
 the only saviours of the farmer by means o< 
 the policy which they desire to bring in. 
 Now. Sir, my hon. fri(md goes too far In his 
 statement with reference to the farmers. He 
 Is too sollcH'ous. The Liberal-Conservative 
 pai-ty and the Liberal-Oonsei-vatlve Govern- 
 ment know the larmera' couuiUon as well as 
 my hon. friend, and they do somerthlng for the 
 farmers, while hon. gentlemen opposite mere- 
 ly talk about them, declaring them to be de- 
 
'Sif'M'-^'' 
 
 pressed, and pauperized, and drawlnir eor^e 
 
 tTeVT^'tlfet '''^' ^^«' wotUrd^°T 
 T= T * ..^'^'^y "'oro oulv In power 
 Is It ti-uo that the farmers. As a dais aro 
 oppressed by taxation ? it" is not trne' Is 
 lh„ fn ' "^ '"^ ''''°- ''"'^'l «"W to-nlgl,t, that 
 iS Jnw,,^"*^" ^'^^^'^ «° '^U that he eat 
 
 What ionv t?,nJ?'"^ "?' «^ "" J^« consuraos 
 What folly that is, and I will show you whv 
 
 and his bam. Does ho pay a sIiirIo cent 
 of taxes on the wood in thin country where 
 we have a surplus with which to supplv the 
 wants of otlier oountrtes ? The K r 
 
 uXnt'm^y.f'' \r ^'-^•'"'S\/trhe 
 
 nas built his house, and, la uino cases out of 
 ten, he uses the wood of the country as fuel 
 He cuts Ms wood In the winter, iuid brinS it 
 
 withft'^^r-^'T'- '^°*^ ^^''P^ himself warn 
 Si niL '^^ ^^P'^y "°y t*^ o" tJiat wood 
 He uses coal, and every ounce of anthracite 
 coal he uses, which is the coal most iSv 
 iiBed for fuel purposes, is free ^f taxX ' 
 and In great portions of this country hZ'- 
 m nous coal Ues at his very door, at ii4t wst 
 
 the ni^'V/'"'';' '"'• ^^' ^"J^'"*'' 't at the n outrol- 
 I,!i^ ^,?^^; •'""• *'"*'''"^ '« ^vrong as r.^Lards 
 fuel, and he Is also wrong as regards fo™ n u 
 absurd that we should have to meet an a? 
 gmnent of that kind. What om^plople .^at 
 
 worm ' ZT'J^^"^' ''^'"*^^' t^« be«t »^ tl^e 
 ^,ot'+, ** of these we raise a surplus 
 
 the best and firmest In tlie world and of 
 these, too, we have a surplus. Our people 
 also consume our butter and cheese, and Can 
 ada can make cheese equal to thafof the 
 best cheese-produchig coimtry In the worid I 
 world ''**^^^"'^ *° ^^ best butter iTthe ' 
 much de^^ If^'^ ""^J^^ P'^ti^'^t Jien, so 
 2d fond^^ fh ^^ "^ b*^' ''^^°<^' are liieat 
 and food to the farmer, and great quantities 
 are consumed by the labouring men is 
 there any duty on those ? So we might go 
 
 mnTd^^^?.'^*^^ *^^* ^^^ farmer eate 
 TtoJT ^ P^y ^ t*^^ "P«^ to me matter 
 oL ^, . ^^ P'^ys «■ t'"^ on his mustard 
 and allspice and cinnamon and cloves m^ 
 
 t^l'^f L*'^'''* ^^' ^"'^ " ^^^ cents per qua? 
 ter would represent the bulk of the duty he 
 pays upon these as far as Ms consump\lon 
 fhf^J^" pays luflnitesimal duties on sugar 
 the raw sugars having Deen made free • and 
 under the state of things which Ss S 
 year, he pays less for his sugar than he 
 would If we had no National Policy wl 
 have taken the farmer's food ; let Ais con 
 slder his drinks. What drinks he o^ht to 
 drink, according to my ophilon, are free His 
 t? drln^ ^°^«?ffee are free.' if he desSs 
 to drink anything stronger-which is od- 
 lonal with hlmself~lt Is a luxu^ Z 
 taies, and he has to pay for It, and wTwIU 
 have a tax on that so lone as nanada »- " 
 country. So my hon. friend must revise "his 
 nHnT* .^J'"'' '^ *^® 'oo*! *8 concerner The 
 
 th^Kt"^'"!."' ^^ ^^^^^ ^ the wood! 
 the brick or the stone he uses in the con 
 structlonof his buildings; thefuelheusL.The 
 
 food he consumes, and, in nil theso nnrtt,.., 
 lars. Which are the main ZZ ot VZ' 
 cossary expenditure, whore l.s th ^. uu rv 
 py at\?s'orn"'l' ''"^ "" '-'""iVrul ;."" ,^ 
 
 a cost? rn n mT'i"'". "^ «<• "'""Jt 
 a cost / Go a little furtlior. niiil ri.n 
 
 slder his clothhig. Thoro u , ., ■ 
 
 number of farmois*- in tils C, utrj' w . .^I 
 
 ordinary clothing is made of th e -o ,1 h m 
 
 from he sheep they themselves rZl Th 
 
 fleece is washed In the nuuilug br. it'lak 
 
 to the nearest carding mill, and ih,. -, • is 
 
 spun by his own wife, and wov. n o, Tla ow'i 
 
 loom, or that of the factory n 'a • y ,,1 
 
 tlio product is mad(* Into gana 'n j tu' 1 
 
 self ,uid famUy. There ,m 1 o, sa s i 
 
 umdreds of thousands of peopl, | |' ., 
 
 try ^yho are thus cloth^, i,„ ' y 
 
 touch with the fanner. They l;,.,.p all tlioli 
 
 cTom'""'.^' °"y P««Pl" who'^^lross' la 1,S 
 cloth, ihey roam about too sireets of iho 
 arge towns and villages, and see oulv eo o 
 
 ^rsr^i'L r* '.;. ':;iH: 
 
 S r'i„-i -^. --,,/;;;;;.■£ 
 
 shorn from the sheep the f armers thi^^i nst Ivos 
 have raised and the wool of wl ic was 
 carded to the settlement. Go to vo r Z' 
 
 VOu'iish^°"nnPi"'/^' ^e *« y'»"' WOOllonrif 
 
 thnt ]^f ;.'^? ^ ""'^^^ ^'^ assertion hero 
 that the woollen and cotton staples most v 
 
 I °^^,i^ ^"'* P^°Pl« as clothing, are t" jffi 
 
 price as they are hi any country In tlio 
 world. TaJdng quality and prtoo togoHur 
 these goods, which are really servIooabU f ^ 
 wear-not clayed cotton, not shoddy w.S 
 lens or tweeds or the like-but. takliiu Urn 
 
 them In Canada equal to any countrv 
 In the world. Taking all thlniw ii.t?, .' m 
 
 SS^ t/f r^'« trminhn;„;;of 
 
 taxation , and L say to you that thoro la 
 no comitij in the worid where the fannJr 
 pays less taxation than he does in this (m m 
 try upon all those staple Articles wU(S go 
 into the consumption of his dally Ijtv. 
 
 REVENUE AM) TAXATION. 
 
 We must look out as well for Uuw g(>nili>. 
 
 $36(Kion(^^'a^^w"*'° opposite say that 
 *rfB,000,000 is what we wring In tnToa 
 from the pockets of the poor nSo 
 of Canada. What a fraud thit ^ £ 
 as an argument-callhig that taxation 
 ^d. .faking the people, who know 
 ^li^*^"".^ «o™e cases because thov aro 
 
 lax or $rfb,000,000 is taken out of theni. 
 
 $10,000,000 Is for liquors and tobacoo nnrt 
 °« man would get up in th^Houso m- .m? 
 other Anglo-Saxon House of Parliament aM 
 
 « " 
 
 I 
 
ask that those articles should be made free. 
 So long as a revenue 1h iiotHled, a rovetiue 
 win b(-' raiac<l upon them. They are not, I 
 necessaries, but luxuries, and the man who | 
 buys them buys them with the kuowliMlKe 
 that ho Is paying Into the revenue, and when | 
 he does, it Is a volmitiry and not an Invoiuii- 
 tary tax. Then tli. re are $8,5OO,(X)0 of i 
 earnings In tliis coimtry. Are you taxed , 
 when you put a letter in the post oftlce box | 
 with a" three-cent stamp on It, and get souu! I 
 person to carry It S.OiX) miles for you ? I 
 think not ; I tlilnk you are getting your siT- 
 vice done, and paying veiy cheaply for it. 
 Are you taxed when you buy your ticket and 
 get on a railway, and are wliirled from TiCvis 
 to Halifax or St Jolm ? I think not, for you 
 get the cheapest traveling on the Intercolon- 
 ial Railway that you can get anywhei-o. All 
 tJiat goes into these earnings. It Is not tax- 
 ation, but payment for a cheap service and a 
 good service as well. Add these to- 
 gether and tliere are SpiS.OOO.OOO. Add 
 also tlie acknowledged luxuries, $2,5(K),- 
 000, and you have !520,(KK»,000 of this 
 wliich Is not ni.'cessary taxation at all, 
 which is eitlier perfectly voluntary, or 
 simply a cheap payment for good service. 
 Now, that shoiUd l)e told. I hold tliat he is 
 not a friend of his country, that he is an 
 enemy of liis cotmtry, who will, by keeping 
 the truth from the people, raise discontent 
 In the minds of the people- 
 Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT. Hear, 
 hear. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER— and, If there Is any man 
 In this House that ought to say "hear, 
 hear " wnen I mention that, it is the hon. 
 gentleman wlio sits opposite me, the memlier 
 for South Oxford (Sir Rlcliard Cartwright). 
 For, If there is any man in tliis House who 
 has rousetl so nnicti discontent and has 
 driven so many people out of the country as 
 the lion, member for South Oxford has l)y 
 those ingenious diatribes of his. I should like 
 to kno^A' who he Is. But, Sir, my hon. friend 
 has a brand new gosi)el ; he brought it out 
 to-nlght. He is going to have a new order of 
 things, a political millennium— all to himself, 
 I am afraid. What does he say ? The leader 
 of a party, spe.aking in Opposition, rises 
 in Ills pl.ace and in a loud voice and hi a 
 tone that can 1)e heard from Cape Breton to 
 British Columbia, proclaims the new evangel. 
 What is it ? " Taxation is an evil which never 
 produces prosperity ; it is an abridgment of 
 every good citizen's rights." Now, my hon. 
 friend's duty is plain. He is the leader of a 
 powerfid party. Sometime in the by and 
 by, may bo the long by and by, he may 
 get into power. But I want to impress this 
 upon him, that when he gets into power he 
 must practice the doctrine he pronclies, and 
 govern ti-,is ."onr.tjy witiiov.t pl.ic!ii;r '.ipon 
 the people, if he is true to his gospel, tliLs evil 
 which he declares never produced prosperity 
 and wlilch is an abridgment of every good 
 citizen's rights. Sir, tliat doctrine in a leader 
 
 of the Govenunent would be arrant foolish- 
 ness, but in tlio moutli of an irresponsible 
 leader of an Oppo.sltion it is a llrebrand. ft 
 is a doctrine by wlilch ho hopes to win the 
 favo\u' of people who know less about It 
 than he does by inspiring tliem with tlie hope 
 that when the Hon. Wllfrc<l Laurier rules 
 this country tliere will bo no taxation at 
 all, none of this evil, " which never pro- 
 duced prosperity and w?ilch is an abridgment 
 of every good citizen's rights." Now, 
 does my hon. friend seriously believe 
 wliat ho says, or does he spe.ak on tlie 
 spur of the moment— in a moment of weak- 
 ness, perhaps ? 
 
 Mr. McMUUiEN. We do not have them on 
 tills side. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Now. if my hon. friend will 
 kcH?p his ^^ind-mills quiet 
 
 Mr. DAVIES (P.E.I.) One is enough. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. One at a time. Well, Sir, 
 my lion, friend when lie emitted ihat aiihor- 
 isni, that wise saying must have been under- 
 going a peculiar process of absorption from 
 my hon. friend from South O.xford (Sir Rich- 
 ard Cartwright), because my hon. friend from 
 South Oxford, not once or twice or two hun- 
 dred times, but two tliousand times, has de- 
 clared in tills House and in the coimtry that 
 we cannot create prosperity by means of tax- 
 ation. Why, he said the other night that the 
 Minister of Finance might as well get up on a 
 steeple and .Imnp olf and tlien try to hold 
 himself up by his boot strap as to try to 
 induce prosperity by means of taxation. Well, 
 the Minister of Finance has too much regard 
 for his own life to try such acrobatic feats as 
 that, but that trick would not be a whit more 
 absurd tlum the doctrine my hon. friend has 
 announced. Suppose wo go down to Nova 
 Scotia, to tlie Basin of Minas, and see the 
 muddy waters of the basin when the tide is 
 In and notice aftenvards, when the tide is 
 out, the portion of land from which the water 
 has retreated and which is covered with the 
 stratum of fertilizing soil left there by the 
 outgoing water. Suppose a municipality 
 there says : Why, this is very valuable, 
 or might be made so. Hero is a tract of 
 one thousand acres of land no one of us is 
 able to reclaim It ; but as a naxmiclpallty wo 
 will raise a sum of money by t.oxing our- 
 selves and we will build a dyke that will in- 
 close this thousand acre tract. They do that ; 
 they pay the taxes for one year, for two 
 ye.ars, for three years, for five years ; they 
 raise the money ; they expend It ; they battle 
 witli tli(^ w.'ives ; they nuiko tlie dykes, aiul 
 you go down there a year or two afterwanls 
 and see a thousand acres of the best soil in 
 the world, with its waving grass that bilngs 
 a perennial Income over and above the taxes 
 !ni])n.''.(>d to ]!ay for this improvement. Yet 
 my hon. friend says that taxation Is an evil 
 and an abridgment of evciT gowl citizen's 
 rights, that you can never create prosperity 
 by taxation. Maybe you cannot create pros- 
 
not bo , „S to ^t^S"* ?""■» " 'I""'"'' 
 man would loot at th',1 t.U 'T* liusband- 
 
 oe cast Dy the owner into ouiei- daj-kno ■ 
 monly callod in tlS couK Grits. ""'' "^'"■ 
 
 tr..t t,.s arKn„.™["^«. Z as h 'i^vat^ 
 
 ! aan,it tl.ls. that";';; hon' ffi 1,7^ 
 
 I .>"..n;,h u, know from ,h.. lirst " at Sat ^^ 
 
 tl .. jvealt pohit, ami tljo rock in. n Vlii,.h tl^ 
 
 i uholo s<-lu.„,o wo,iM split, ani ho ^v^s vi^ 
 
 ; tl« Aniorl«,,u press, ho cammt have «i,l tl a 
 
 ut <.-an<><*, of American ^^fcu^^mon, if he Iocs 
 
 ot know that almost without ox ■option tjm 
 
 "VHs an. stjttesinen of th,> Unitel a aie^ 
 
 srl,.t,Hl reciprocity lK,r,w.wi tills count ry and 
 
 . a.ssi,nl atlon of the fc.rilfs of 'the two S 
 lies. I can ^^ve authority after autliorltv 
 
 Imows'it""' '"^" "^^' «tatx;„ient."EySboSj 
 Mv. CIIAULTOX. IT.xluo(j one now. 
 Ml- roSTER. I am not gouig to wearv- 
 
 "'*- ." • but if my hon. friend lia.s a i hi rat 
 f..r hiformation, I wUi ^iv.. hhn my ^^T. 
 morrow, and ho can road for a, ho.n- tie 
 ophiions Of the Ame.icaai ,st,.,tes,nSi £ 
 
 ^'SZ^SXTe.'" ^'^' ^'•«="-' -5 
 
 Mr. CHARLTON. You ought to have oome 
 here prepn-ed to verify your ,stat,.ments. 
 
 .' 
 
 UNKKHTRICTIJD HECIPKUCITV AXD ASSIMILA- 
 TION OP TARIFFS. 
 
 My hon. friend says that it is false that 
 f^7 ever proposed an assimilation of 
 the Canadian tariff to the United 
 
 f^lL rt. .1 .R. su-, I Aviii have something 
 to do wlu tiiat, hon. pentlem^in l)efore I get 
 tlirouffh. My hon. friend says tluw no Lib- 
 oral has said so, that no Unlte<l States ad^ 
 herent lias said so. I have made m v Is^I 
 
 to examine the records to see whether It Va 
 
 flo^l to leave avoU enough alone. If he had 
 io T hf P°^* ^"^ ^^e simple a.^sortion S 
 no Liberal had said that tliev would assimi- 
 hite the tariffs, that no Mdhereut of l^eUn ted 
 States had said so, it might have gone on ^e 
 
 went into the dangerous course for Iilm of 
 undert,al<hig to m.son. and tJie furtJ er he 
 reasonwl, the more offpotuaUy he d^troyal 
 his ow-n contention. My hon"^ f riend sZ- 
 
 fhn^ iT.i,^^ *""^''''*' "•" ^^'^1' Poiiit ^i once 
 -that if there ^yas a Utile lower tariff in one 
 conntiT than m the other, the tendency woSd 
 
 110(1 tflft IfkWAOf toi-IfP o«,1 , .,•' ' 
 
 the coimto^ ^;ilch haxl'Vhe iu^hf^'^hen 
 my Hon. friend from Pilnoe' Ed^Zf "mS 
 (Mr. Davies), who so vrdiantly denietl the m- 
 sim nation of tariff the other nigM is on rT 
 
 Sed slrS^^^n '' ™"^* "^ so^a^d that Z 
 united Stales people are not such arrant fools 
 
nn to mibinit to a HcliPino of rodproolty 
 Iji Willi Ji tJu'ro !•< not tm iiHsliiillnllon of 
 tarllTs. My lioii. I'llcml lia.s sfjiUnl tln' weak 
 poiut, anil I liiviti'il liliii, HH 1 liavo luvittid 
 tlii'tii iipilii anil aKMlii, (o hIiow to this Iloiisi' 
 how tlii'y art' Kolnj? toarrinnjouiirt'Htrli'li'd rt'- 
 cipiwlly with tlio Ilnlti'il Staton, iinil (UhitIiii- 
 iuatioti Mtralnut otluM" coniitrlos. witliont an 
 awilnillMtlon of tiuH'frt. Tho lii>n. vt>uMi>maii 
 caiinol, ilo It, anil llier<> Is not a lovcl-hiMilod 
 mail In llio Unlti><l Slates who hiia oxprossinl 
 hlmwlf on this sn1i,1o:'t, who Is not in dls- 
 njri'coiniMit wltJi hlni on that pi>lnt. Well, 
 Sir, my lion, frlonil has oni' stronj; ralhorcnl, 
 a man of whom not much has bcon lii-aril In 
 TJnlti'd StJili^ poUtlos, a Afr. Oamplxjll, of 
 Ohio. My hon. frloutl dwltiiXHl Ih.ir Mf. Cainp- 
 1k»11 whs a host, and tluit Mr. CaiuphoU liad 
 dotiai'cvl hlmsi'lf la tavour of nHjiproclty ; and 
 he hroutfht out a shoi>t of pajtiM' \\it,h a vtT.v 
 lonj; oxtraot upon It, Avhicli hi> r'nl *j> the 
 House as Mr. Oiunplwll's offer of reclpixxjlty. 
 What was it ? It was an a^reiMnent 1)<>- 
 tweon two foolish younj; iieople nnnuH' 
 Maude and CMauilo that they would kiss eai.-h 
 other. Now, does my hon. friend know not that 
 he is trifling with tln' question and trlflin',' 
 with this House when he det^laros that the 
 Democratic party in gi inj; to give us, and Is 
 wlllhij; to give us, a reciprocity treaty upon 
 tlie ground of a simple story told i)y Mr. 
 Cani])l>ell wttli reference to Claude and 
 Claude ? My hon. friend luis declared that 
 tlio Democratic victory la the United States 
 has been a \'lotory for tlie freedom of the 
 trade to this extent, that It Is going to do 
 away wltli all tarlfC for protiectlon, and in- 
 troduce a tariff for revenue alone. My hon. 
 fi-lend declaretl In the same breath that In 
 Canada he was going to do away with all 
 protection, and introduce a tariff for revenue. 
 Now, whc<n Uie United States gets down to a 
 shnple revenue basis, and my hon. fiiend 
 gets Canada down to a simple revenue basis, 
 where will be lils l)asls for rcclprcoity be- 
 tween the two countries ? 
 
 r.EADS TO AWEXATIOX. 
 
 My hon. friend says that mirestricted 
 reciprocity does not lead to annexation. He 
 knew that a trasted leader of his 
 had dodarcMl himself In a different 
 direction, and so he read to fortify liliu- 
 self a few words of what Mr. Blake said on 
 one side, and, a little more of what 
 Mr. Blake said on the other. Mr. 
 Blake's evidence is strong evidence when- 
 ever It can be quoted against my hon. 
 friend, because In heart he was with the 
 other side, their trusted leader for wmiy a 
 year ; and when he was their leader every 
 man of them fell down on his knees and 
 worshipped the superior ability and acumen 
 of Mr. Blake. If Mr. Blake, the trusted leader 
 of the party hnd so to wrench parly afflia- 
 tlons arid go against the course of a lifetime, 
 as to break with tha.t party, if Mr. Blake's 
 familiar, and chosen, and ' t duty, for 
 years was to rake, with his si ug shot, the 
 
 ranks of the lilheral-Conservatlve party, any 
 lilt of evidence that Mr. Hake gives against 
 till' lilheral-Oonservallve party Is In tho line of 
 all hlrf ■nislu's, while every hit of evidonc^j 
 that he Is forciil to give against the parly 
 with which he was so long associated. Is some- 
 thing wrenched from him unwillingly, and 
 ivMisequentJy of priceless value in compari- 
 son wltli tlie evidence given against the other 
 side. Jlr. Hlake may liave thought tliat the 
 Oon.servatlve policy of protection would lead 
 to annexation ; but he dechiri'd In language 
 that admits no doubt, that uniestricted reci- 
 procity would certainly lead to annexation. 
 He said : 
 
 I Kin no plan for iiiniliining tli<' two (^Icnii'ntH of 
 IMiiimni'iicy of tlir tinuty iiml viirialiility of tiiriffH, 
 wliii'li iliiiH not inviiivi' a pmoticivi control of tht< latter 
 (taiitf) l>y till' rniti;il Stnti«. 
 
 Till' ti'iidi'iicy in ('aiiiiila of nnrritrictcil free 
 ti'ailr with tlii' States, liij^li dutii'M iiiiiig niaiiitaiiicd 
 a(,'uinKt thf I'nitiMl KiiiKdini wmilii tii' towards 
 pnlitical union. 
 
 Thus far my hon. friend read and then he 
 stopped But Mr. Blake went on to say :— 
 
 And the niori' HiU'i'i'.s.Mful tlie plan the .stiongcr the 
 teiideni:y, lK)thl>y reaaunof the eonininnity of intore.''tH, 
 the interniiiiKliiiK of popiilutioiiH, the more intimate 
 huHine.sM and Hcoeial cijiinectionM and the trade and 
 tiHcal relatioiiH aniountinK tii dependeney, wliieh it 
 Wdiild creaie with the StateH ; ancl of the greater i.soia- 
 tion and diverprency from Hritiiin which it would pro- 
 duce ; and also, and (w|H'cially, through inconveniences 
 experienced in tlie maintenance and apprehenHions 
 entertained an to the tcriiiiiintiun of tlio treaty. 
 
 Our lio|ieH and our fears alike would draw one way. 
 We would tlion indeed be "l(M)king to WaHliington. " 
 
 The treaty once made the vantage ground it gave 
 would naturally lie used for the accoinpliHliment of its 
 ulterior purpose ; and tills political end would he a 
 great factor in the consideration by the HtatOB of 
 Canadian views ujion chaii){es in the joint tariff, or as 
 to till! maintenance or termination of the treatj'. 
 
 The reorganization to which our neighliours look 
 is, of course, the uniticatiim of the continent. 
 
 That Is Mr. Blake's opinion with reference 
 to the tendency of unrestricted reciprocity, 
 and eveiy sentence Is an Irresistible argu- 
 ment In that way. Mr. Blake went on to say : 
 
 Without assured permanence some Conservative 
 predictions of evil, else fallacious, would come true ; 
 for our imdeniable natural advantages in law mate- 
 vials, laliour, situation and facilities would be unnatur- 
 ally handicapped. 
 
 No manufacturer, looking to the continental market, 
 would fix or even enlarge his capital or business in the 
 country of five millions at the risk of being cut off 
 from the country of sixty-five millions. 
 
 Our neighbours, instead of enjjaging in manufactures 
 here would take our markets with goods manufactured 
 there. 
 
 A .d our raw niatcrials, instead of being finished on 
 the gi-ound, would l)o ex|)orted to lie finished abroad. 
 
 That Is Mr. Blake's opinion, the opinion of 
 a trusted leader of their own, a man who, 
 because his party had taken up the fad 
 of iiiire.sitricted reciprocity, was wrenched 
 from his allegiance to that party, and 
 obliged to give reluctant testimony, albeit 
 strong testimony, against the fad and po- 
 licy wliich they had adopted. 
 
 Ihit my hon. ivion 
 ohJecMon of .111 ,,, 
 city plan Is dlNcriml 
 discrliiilnailoii 111,,^^ 
 had the a.iminince t 
 the lion, niemher 1 
 Chariton) and the In 
 (.Mr. Davhs) and baj 
 crimination would li 
 Upon the (leorgo Bn 
 in 1S74. was negotlai 
 ton. Tliose three h< 
 the other, have trie 
 nn idea which Is a' 
 thing ean b,., namely 
 fU'Wrimhiated au-alnsi: 
 too, with the consent 
 British <Jovermiient 
 with knowing it is 1 
 them \ylth Is. that'th 
 that It is false, declare 
 the iussertion that 1 
 either intended or nc 
 livnty, I .stake my 1 
 ma'. In this counti-y. 
 stand by m.y statoni 
 sontleman have olth 
 iinve misrepresented 
 ask the attention of 
 prove it. sir, It ea 
 variety of clrcinnstn 
 fnf^l'' ^"ke the ch 
 ?"^.t^at the treaty 
 mi, George Brown w 
 tiated It; Alexander 
 Premier of this counti 
 l^msolf signed tlie nu 
 the nature of the re. 
 n-hlch were to be follow 
 I "hat does he say ' 
 other provisions, he 'say 
 
 ^ iii?f *,'r "'•'"'"■ "f '•'-'''Pr^ 
 I f '.''• '"ere is no reason to (i 
 
 derive very great advantages 
 i9t of articles named in n 
 "*aty, such as follows - 
 Wicultural implements, s'alt 
 Z:?^: '''':5''-'"-icks, calci^ 
 manufactured articles not 1. 
 from England, ochres, grouni 
 
 That was on 9th March 
 Jhlch was to guide Georj 
 Prpssly confined the Ih 
 articles not produced In 
 England. Let us go on 
 ilie second step will be l 
 i„ ^^^^^' approved on 
 in which we find this i 
 remembered that at hh 
 "i^ws were pressing for 
 wider than that suggest© 
 
 I sir,^ ■■•••"'^•"•■-^"iKrai ot a iat( 
 I ! j^," ,.*''® part of the T 
 pnd the hst of articles named! 
 I »a.s to embrace the articles o 
 I tie two countries. The Govei 
 
"iHrilMllNATIOX, 
 
 o.;f:^i;:;f!r,,,'''M;''f,,r^;v'''^''''-»'-''K..H, 
 
 city plan Ih .1 salmln lo ''''' h'''''V iT''""'"- 
 Cli(U-lton) and Ih,. hmf m ' Norfolk (Mr. 
 
 'lilnif «iin 1.,., nam.. V tl f n .''"!' "•" ""-^ 
 '"". will. tl,„ ,.o , n a, , ," 'V''.'>''"'' "'■•'^' 
 
 with knowing Is f,,/''" ""' ''I'"'-*,'., tl.o.n 
 tiK'in Willi Is fi,.ir.i: , ^^'"^* ^ charge 
 
 timt.t,s^it/i:.\a'r;hat';;v"f'^ "^ "^'"'^ 
 
 tlic lu^sortion tint m. 11 }^ }"^'^' ""'' "" 
 
 n»',"[i H,r™„Sv "ri"l'°" "" ;„ '""■'" 
 
 si*.s,'»,t''';,f™"«Vr,, ;!"''•'■; 
 
 otUer provisions he "say^:'^'*'"^^ °^"" "'« 
 
 (liT ve vorv erc-it n.fh-„,Vf t ' "'*' Canada would 
 
 i«t of z!i^\:^TT:^{:.''rT7''V''' 
 
 '""aty such aM follows -Alan ,faot,?v, '" ^"""?' 
 "Hrnou tural iiiii;leiiipntc ' ,.-"'*P'"a<-tur('n m wood, 
 buililinK batl iSs^^ wit, nnncral oils, l,nck,s fo^ 
 
 f^;"il!fc ir::„r :s ---vcity ,. i„ei„dc. 
 
 i'"ilH, tiiliM, l-ariUV ,.;»,''' "", """'"■'• '''"'"'. I'lin.l-, 
 K'•'>'■'•"ll.^. ..II na u u , ;.iX'l' '"';"*"■"".•"'• ""'' 
 
 ^-;H..;. ,vi,i, »u<.iM,th,. ,', ii . ' , "r '""""y. t... 
 
 l>oii.nii,„. (;,,v,.nHr,Mts , . '"' '"'l'"'i'>l .md 
 
 '."""•'' <i|«"i prior to i-,.|.?,,,, ,'^'"' '"',t".|'ll,v,l..t^.^- 
 -It ...ay I,.. ad.i"iy;,'it ^,;l:.;vr;!:t' •"■""""''""• 
 '^^na7n^''S'i:Tzr"!j^'^^''^^ "t this 
 
 , artlclos In ivcard to 'i^f ,*^""f? *'* "^^f"'"'" 
 ' was Ilko V to o'-^,,,?!'''''''^' "■ '"^-''-Iminatlon 
 tain, mlovorv ,m J.ml'r''''"'' *" *'™'« Brit- 
 wards tharff -this n M ."" ""'"^ *"'^''" "^ter- 
 shonl.l only bo nft^. ± ^'''''' «^-^tondod, it 
 
 Govonunonts Th! n^t^TV "'" ^^'^ 
 on to say : ^^ ^'^'^^^ '» Council goes 
 
 (■^hv'uo tZ,,";"' "" ""V'.'t.' tl,i„ vi,.«. to Sir 
 
 ■";y ;'''''nticati,.niL^,;^'f '"!.'';••' ■'" ,'"" i'~i— 
 
 wiiicli would in -vuv ;,, , • '■ "'i'' ^■'""".'■rce 
 I int,■r..st^<. -^ ""-^ "'J"'"'<.«iy amct In,,„Hal 
 
 That Is another stage. On 23rd A.>r,i i«7.i 
 
 £uSeS^s^';a.rs\isr^- - S 
 
 M-ij^Hty's Uoven „„t„ "'"',■ ''"'"•■^""' "^ H«r 
 
 sirK.kor„t.^''r^j^t^^-ixr^i,-t:;i[^! 
 
 S?4 w"as toSdl'r^ '^ S'^ memorandum 
 
 Wider toan Ct'tfgSLd ^'""""^'i^'tureci IL.t 
 
 li\!%B:i^'^.T^""'^''> despatch to Hi.s Kvopl^n- 
 .ire ojr'the part'of^'th" ^"T^f ^l^'i' l^'i^^^te. adl 
 
 „, • ^ '\J ^'^'^ to adduce onother nronf t 
 suppose the treaty itself may be t^ken' ^ 
 showing what the treaty means I chni 
 ^Jf^ "^ ^''''- ^-^e^d the ottienay to SS 
 a single clause of that treaty which mlde it 
 a condition of the treaty t^hat the ^Sps 
 Z^^h J^^i"® Jidmltted free from the Unlt^ 
 
 IrS to Gr''e■,?"SH.^^°"^•^ "-^t be admUtS 
 rree to Orreat BrltaJn or anv other coiint™^ 
 
 faJX^^^"' r?^ "' ^« cainot readTS: 
 cause it Is not In the treatv tii,* »,« T 
 
 tempted to make U.I ar^nenf tha? ." 
 
 though it was not in the trSi^ vet it u 
 
 common sense to believe ttofu tiey had 
 
 made a frentv K«♦^«-^n _„-v y -^ "^" 
 
 certain ardcl^s were lo ^me^freTiTt^'eS 
 SK' ^^ °" other woM or sentence qS 
 lyrng it, that necessarily It must be confliX 
 to those two countries. The onnoslt^ It?^ 
 exact truth. But I desire to cX £e'ar^' 
 
 I 
 
 !' 
 
10 
 
 ment further. There la another article in 
 tho treaty which provides for a most-fav- 
 oured nation treatment. Why do they Insert 
 most-favoured nation treatment, if the 
 treaty Itself gave tho United States a iire- 
 ferential market, with a discrimination 
 against Groat Britain in regard to the ar- 1 
 tides mentioned, and which are set out In 
 another article, which hon. gentlemen can , 
 read, and whicli I will not trouble the House 
 by reading ? Tt is an article providing that, 
 if any moro favourable considerations are 
 given by the United States to a thlni conn- i 
 ti-y, or by Canada to any tliird country, tlie 
 same shall be given by one countiy to the 
 other. 
 
 Mr. DAVIES (P.E.I.) Will the hon. gen- 
 tleman read the paragraph wliich ho say.s | 
 provides a more-favoured nation clause wltli 
 respect to articles named in the treaty ? 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. I will read the clause, 
 wWch is as follows :— 
 
 Fortlie term nifiitiouc'd in AiticlcXlII no otluror 
 liiglirT duty siiall In; iniiHise<l in tli<> I'niti-d .States 
 uiion iitlicr articli's nut enunicnvtcd in said Kclii'diilrs, 
 growtli, |in)diii'i' ov uiannfactuic <if Canada : or in 
 Canada upon siicli otln'r art,itli's tlie growtii, pnxiucr 
 or niainifac'turi.' of tlie United .States, tlian are resiieo- 
 tively iini]oscd iipon like articles t\u\ growth, prorhice 
 or manufacture of (M-eat Britain or of any other 
 country. 
 
 These two articles go togothei*. Tho first 
 one is expUclt in saying that the two coun- 
 tries ."hall exchange certain products, and 
 there is no article In tho treaty which says 
 there shall be a preferential treatment given 
 to each other. And then the commerce be- 
 tween the two coimtrles is extended on the 
 same amicable line to articles which were 
 not mentioned therein to provide for most 
 favoured nation, but not preferential, 
 terms to either one or the other. 
 Now, Sir, my contention, so far, is this : 
 That the spirit of the Instructions all 
 tho way through was to prevent discrimhia- 
 tion agahLst Britain, and that, when a treaty 
 is made, the treaty makes no mention of dis- 
 crimination against Great Britain. Then I 
 come to George Brown's testimony. G-eorgo 
 Brown ought to know as much about 
 it its any other man. George Brown made 
 that speech after all tho schedules had b:en 
 submitted, nfi'^r tho treaty had been com- 
 pleted as far as it was completed, and with 
 full knowledge ot the articles in the sche- 
 dide, which he read in his speech only two 
 mlmites before. George Brown, r(.>ad the very 
 schedule that my hon. friend read to-night, 
 and then, .after reading that, he expresstnl 
 himself in this way, as to certain objections 
 urged agahist the treaty. 
 
 The first of theHO objection.s which lie referred to 
 was that the treaty discriminated against Great 
 Britain, and in favour of tlie United .States. 
 
 He declared this objection to bo unfounded, 
 and proved it by saying : 
 
 It was perfectly vinderatood from the open- 
 ing negotiationH tliat no article could be free 
 fruin duty in regard to the United States, whic4i was 
 not also free with regard to tireat Britain, and nothing 
 else was ever contemplated for a moment. 
 
 Now, Sir, If George Brown had said tliat, 
 after the first schedules had been handed in, 
 there might have been some ground 
 for the argument of tho hon. gentle- 
 man ; that he spoke abotit a subject 
 that he was but half through with in 
 tho negotiations. But George Brown mado 
 tiie statement after the draft treaty had 
 been concluded, and after ho had just read 
 to the Senate the very schedide of manu- 
 factured goods whicli my hon. friend read, 
 and G'orgo Brown distinctly states that it 
 was never conteraplatetl for a moment, and 
 tliat actually no discrimination was allowed 
 in that treaty agahist Great Britain. ^ly 
 hon friend thought that h(» liad lighted upon 
 an argument which helped him out, and he 
 read the report of the Board of Trade upon 
 this draft treaty which had been submitted to 
 it by Lord Derby. Lord Derby, who knew llio 
 whole tenor and spirit of all the negotiations, 
 Imew that assurances had been given to him 
 by tiie Canadian Government that no dis- 
 crimination should be allowed against Groat 
 Britiiln, and knew that every step in the 
 worlv of tliat treaty-making had been unfier 
 the direct supervision of that Imperial Gov- 
 ernment. The board of trade reported 
 what ? They reported that they foumi 
 nothhig against the treaty, as it was sub- 
 mitted. They did not mention discrimina- 
 tion. My hon. friend put that hi a.s sin 
 aside afterwards, .as though they had tliat : 
 In tlielr minds, but the board of trade made j 
 that report upon the data of the scliedules 
 before them, and tlie promise that these arti- 
 cles mentioned in the schedules should bo tree 
 to Great Britain as well as to Canada. But 
 Sir, if George Brown did not know anything | 
 about it, and If my hon. friend the leader oi 
 the Opposition thiiiks h(» can asperse tlie 
 character tmd veracity of the Hon. George 
 Brown, who m.ade as positive a statement 
 as a man could make, .and made it witJi all 
 tlio knowledge of the facts ; perhaps my 
 hon. friend will allow that Lord Derby ouglit 
 to know something about it. Well, Sir, at| 
 that very time, almost at that very monienr, 
 there w.as a fear in Engl.and that this treaty! 
 as regards this schedide was going to discri-j 
 minate against Groat Britain, and representa-l 
 tives of various trades headed a deptation toj 
 Lord Derby and waitetl on him, and ex-F 
 pressed their fears, and Implored his inter j 
 vention In the matter, and what did Lonl| 
 Derby say ? 
 
 It was tlie iHiunden duty of Her Aiajesty's (lc)\eni-| 
 nient to insist that Britisii free trade' should luit'tej 
 placed fi.t ft disadvniitiige ns eompared with otlifij 
 countries, in any treaty which niiglit Ih; enten iI inwj 
 on beiialf of tliecoionies ; also to forbid theinipositioBl 
 of differential duties In favour of the United Statisa»| 
 against Oi-eat Britain in any sueli treaty. 
 
 And ho further assured the deputation : 
 
 Tiiat there wa.s i 
 warrant the concl 
 ment were in favoi 
 
 Mr. LAURIEl 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. 
 
 ' Mr. lAURIEl 
 
 Mr. FOSTER 
 month. 
 
 Mr. DAVIES 
 
 Mr. FOSTER, 
 tho date more ii 
 of what is said ■ 
 
 Mr. DAVIES 
 important to kn 
 statement before 
 the scliL'dule to 
 the board of tra 
 discriminato if m 
 Government won 
 
 Mr. FOSTER, 
 said that. 
 
 Mr. DAVIKS ( 
 spatch following 
 board of trade' si 
 he approved of tl 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. 
 
 stated what my 
 now. My hon. i 
 out of a very sni 
 proposes to crawl 
 becauso ho canuoi 
 hour, upon whici 
 Derby was made 
 its accuracy with 
 What did Lord Dei 
 deputation : 
 
 That there was noth 
 warrant the e(jncliision 
 were m fav our of discr 
 
 He said, hi additioi 
 
 It was tlie Ixiundenfc 
 
 ment to insist that I5ri( 
 
 at a disadvantage, and 
 
 ol differential duties i 
 
 as against Great Britai; 
 
 And j-et my hon. fri 
 
 that by .asking me 
 
 the exact hour, and 
 
 the minute h.and or 
 
 pointed, when thai 
 
 Well, as I have said b 
 
 for sucli dense Igiiori 
 
 member for North 
 
 stated tlio otlier da' 
 
 cussing tiiis quest" 
 
 and so also have 
 
 on ihe other side 
 
 poor students as not 
 
 •are nooi- nniitip..? 
 
 tnist the ' iutercsti 
 
 less of a country. 
 
 quently threshed ou 
 
 know that the Hon 
 
 time and again gave 
 
11 
 
 
 What Is tlio date ? 
 
 1874. 
 
 What month V 
 
 I cannot give you 
 
 tno 
 
 Mr. LAURIER. 
 
 Mr. FOSTEK. 
 
 ■ Mr. I AUKIER. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER, 
 month. 
 
 Mr. DA VIES (T.EI) Thnt i. , 
 
 v^-jjj.i.; ihat is important. 
 
 the SCilL'dlUo to tllO honn n/l V'^'^^^ "^'"i 
 
 he appro^od of tS'troa^ ""''' "'"' 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. The board of t,.,i 
 stated wliat niv im n "P'.^'^o' t^'Ule never 
 now. My hou friZl f ""!• '^^'^'^^^ -"'^t 
 out of a very snnrl ' "''"f :^*^ ^' ^^'-^wl 
 
 Derby ^ ^^S, tw'''^ ?' '^°"' 
 its accuracy with refpren^o 1 ^® l'^P"i?'i« 
 
 What did Lord Derlw sav ? w« *•"' ^'r^^" 
 deputation : ^ ^ ^® assured the 
 
 w-». ,n fav„„r of .liscriininati' ,,,. '""•"''"''''^ 
 
 He said, hi addition, that : 
 
 It u-iis the lX)mirleii?dlitv of Hpr Mnl^.t.,- r. 
 nieiit to insist tliut l?ritis i t,.„f i ^'^J'^*''^>' « fioverii- 
 
 of .iifForontial dutfes in f.?vo, / '^ tfn' . .n.position 
 - against U„.at l^^^i^ /^--;JJ|-.^;^«, Sta,..s 
 
 And yet my hou. friend tries to get out of nil 
 e'eSct'hou? r/l'H'" ^^« «-act s'^iml iS 
 
 iiillii 
 
 •"111 so also liavo ntiir.v i..^„ .>>'U«, 
 
 ou the other i^do If t^,?' sentlomon 
 
 mist" the 'luterosts of o^° ''^'^ *« 
 know that the Wn,, P? *^*^\ Papers. We 
 
 "Mail," in dlscusshig this 
 
 the Toronto 
 matter, said : 
 
 ■'n. that 'iiscri,^- :.:;;;:;^^ r:^r:^;;;r^i'r'' ■" i-^^- 
 
 l"''"iitt..,l ,„ul,.,- tl,„ tiv/ity of te-.t I""I"J-"<1 or 
 
 Sir, I iiave done with tint .ift^,. i 
 • ".'.'"lo tho nrginnent I .,i ;' n.;^ 7, .."^il^-'DS 
 
 Ion. member for Queen's P ' r .^r ' 
 
 down in "w"',^"'''- '"^'^ tl'"- others i l^n 
 offr?w/ f^^"*"'!'"*-'^""' '""1 through Ih'm h d 
 
 Washmgton agninst reuewin- t . ni ' , 
 
 J" tl,p Unit .<i Sttt. " It ] ^"■^■"■■^'■^•'•"l"'i'>''any exist 
 articles o.„l!,;a'edii„'f,",."r^ 'T'lr""' '^"' ^'"^ 
 
 treatysh.n,ide,mti„,'^oi:,. tuil, '';,;i;;:!T'''"'fy 
 
 t.. such flnties as may he e,,„|v., nt" . Vi •'^^^' ""'■Y 
 taxation. It is su4este,l ' . ;■'"' "'t"™il 
 
 certain artich. to Ji^i:!;,;!:';';; ^^;!!:^:;tr "'"' """ 
 
 !n"ulai^^'f]Hi;^l:1;;fr,|^',;^;^iHMe.,nlv,.™^ 
 
 Hl>.rits, beer and tol ' mlu^Tt^T"" "''''" 
 standard v.-hi,), rr-ny h, x ntulu! 7' ,>t'ven„6 
 
 i* •« 
 
 <* 4 
 
 tS' 
 
12 
 
 give a list of the art'clos In the treaty of 
 1854, nnd upon nil jf thcni they init 
 h>sa or t,'roMti!r diitU'S, which thoy desirotl 
 OniiMda, to ])t\y in orilor to cinnpTOsato for llio 
 dlsadvantago they claliuod to be under on 
 aecoiint of thoir Internal taxation. In incjii- 
 orandnni " G " which followetl, Mr. Gait re- 
 plied : 
 
 111 rcfmciici' to tlic luciiinraiiiliiiii niccivod fidiii tlic 
 Coiiiiiiittci' on \\';iys mid .Mcjins, tlic proviiiciid di'lu- 
 giitt's i-i'giTt to lie oliligrd to state tli;it tlii' pro^iosalt 
 tlmn-iii (■outainrd in rcfiiird to tlic coiiiiin'icial n.'- 
 latious lictwwn tlii^ two couiitric* arc not such as tlicy 
 can rccninincnd for the adoption of tlic respective 
 legislatures. Tlic imposts wliicli it is proposed to lay 
 upon tile ]iroduetionsof the Pifitisli ]ivoviiiccs on tlicii' 
 entry into (lie markets of tlie l^iitcd States, ari> siicli 
 as, in tlicir oiiinion, will be in some oasi's prohibitory, 
 and will certainly seriously iiitt^rfere with tlie natural 
 course of trade. Tliese imposts arc so iiiucli beyond 
 wliat the delegates conceive to he an e(|iiivalcnt for 
 the internal taxation of the Tinted States, that tliey 
 lire reluctantly brought to the coiichision that tlie 
 committee no longer desire the trade between the two 
 countries to lie carried on upon the principles of reci- 
 jirocity. With the coiieurrciicc of the Hntish Minis- 
 ter at W'asliington, tliey are therefore obliged res- 
 pectfully to I'.ecline to "enter into the engagement 
 suggested in the memorandum. 
 
 That i.s all there is to that. It affords ;iot 
 the shadow of au argument in favour of 
 discrimination, or in favour of assimilation of 
 tarifCs between the two countries. Now, 
 Sir, I have exhausted my own patience, and 1 
 suiijiose the patience of the House, and yet 
 tlitro are two or three points which I feel 1 
 must touch upon. 
 
 MK. CIl.VliLroN's AS.SKHTIO.NS. 
 
 The hon. member for North Nor- 
 folk (Mr. Charlton) stated, the oth(>r 
 day, that the Govenunent had as.sert*'d, 
 wlien tliey went to the people in 1891, that 
 they would certainly get a reciprocity treaty 
 from the United States, and that on that 
 assertion, which he declared had no foimda- 
 tion in fact, we had fooled and decoive<i the 
 people, and gained the election. I am 
 anxious for honest and fair debate in tnis 
 House, and in my anxiety for it I gave my 
 hon. friend a chance to retract the strength 
 of that assertion, and I supposwl he would 
 like a man, say : Well, that was a little too 
 strong ; you did not actually assert that, but 
 you left It to be Implied. But my uon. 
 friend would not take advantge of that oppor- 
 tunity, and not once, but twice or three times 
 before he llnlshed his speech, ho declarecr 
 that we had actually asserted that wo wouid 
 be certain to get a reciprocity treaty, and 
 that we had cim-led the country on that cry . 
 Now, I give ray hon. friend another oppor- 
 tunity to retract that statement. 
 
 Some hon. MKMBERS. Oh. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. He will not do it. I am 
 not surprised at that ; but what does sur- 
 prise me Is that hon. genUemen who sit be- 
 side him on the front benches will stand by 
 him In his refusal to retract a statement 
 
 which ho did not prove and which he can- 
 not prove. When he was asked to prodnee 
 his authority, what did ho quote ? He ipioted 
 till' Toronto " Kmpire." The Toronto "Em- 
 pire is not the Government. He had not 
 stated that the Toronto " Empire " had de- 
 clared thus and so. He had said that the Gov- 
 ernment had actually said so and so. But even 
 when lie read the extract from the Toronto 
 •' Ihupiro," it appeared tliiit the Toronto 
 " Empire " did not say it ; and he actually 
 struggled through the whole extract 
 without showing one smgle syllable or 
 lino which could bear out the asser- 
 tion that he made. The hon. gentleman 
 went on, afterwards, to declare that the 
 draft treaty of 1874 was an actual'and square 
 discrimination on all fours with what was 
 proiiosed under unrestricted reciprocity. 
 Sir John Thompson gave him an opportunity 
 to lake that back. lie asked a certain ques- 
 tion as to whether the Hon. G(>orge Brown 
 had made a sfcitement, by way of denial. 
 But the hou. gentleman never answers a 
 question squarely. He did not answer that ; 
 but ho went off on a side shift. Now, Sir, 
 there are two examples of an hou. geutte- 
 mau choosing to argue against his opponents 
 by actually falsifying the record, and when 
 ho was given an opportunity of putthig him- 
 self right, utterly declining to put himself 
 right. And he not only stated that in the 
 face of members in this House who could 
 judge of its falsity, but his speech goes out to 
 the world, and it will be by and by, I 
 suppose, printed In pamphlet form, as are 
 all his speeches, and be sent out to a larger 
 constituency, and men will read, and men will 
 Siiy the Canadian Government is a bad Gov- 
 ernment. Why ? Because they declared iu 
 1891, that they were ceitaln to got a reclpro- 
 cit\ treaty, they weut to the people on 
 this declaration and they did not get 
 it ; because thev declared agaiast discrim- 
 ination and that the British Governmeot 
 is against dlscrimlnatiou, and yet, in 1874, 
 discrimination was actually allowed and ac- 
 ceded to by Grertt Biitahi. And men will 
 say, we cannot support a Government which 
 can be guilty of such deceit as that. And 
 when asked, why do you come to that con- 
 clusion, they will answei Because Honest 
 John Charlton said so, lieoause Mr. Chariton 
 Is a Christian, because he is an elder of the 
 Presbyterian Church, because he Is a stickler 
 for the Sabbath, because he is a man who pre- 
 tends to great goodness, and 1? truly good, 
 and Jolm Charlton would not say this unless 
 it were so. We will base our political action 
 on Avhat Jolm Charlton says, because we be- 
 lieve In his honesty, I must say that that Is a 
 propaganda which ought not to be carried on 
 -not as between parties, for I am not speakhig 
 now merely of pnrtiw*— but as lietween the 
 man and the people who read what the man 
 says. My hon. friend Is very much against 
 the captain of a tug taking hold of 
 a little string, and allowing the shrill 
 whistle of his tug to rend the 
 
 solemn stillness 
 I would rather th 
 still nes.s of the S 
 tug blow its hon 
 would offend a: 
 which society 
 tiiim^d— truth \x>tM 
 Slv, if that capta 
 his mate, tlie mii 
 done. Ho woiUd 
 his own heart, ]m 
 coulidoiice of his 
 would be the only 
 is to be said of a'p 
 these utt^'i-ances 
 foundation, and -p 
 to take them back 
 not do it, but viill f 
 broad and wide thr 
 is not the kind of r 
 to obtain/ 
 
 .^IR. D.VVIKS A\D 
 
 The hon. gcntl( 
 
 my frioTid from 
 
 (Jlr. Davies) erred 
 
 bound to say throu; 
 
 man, espechilly one 
 
 leader of the Mari 
 
 err. My hon. fri 
 
 Davles) leaned to\i 
 
 and in that melodi 
 
 so ^vell known, f 
 
 ence, whether the 
 
 It or not, dclibei 
 
 falsifyuig the rec< 
 
 of one of those in 
 
 wound up, cannot 
 
 runs down and the 
 
 which makes a 
 
 greater speed than a 
 
 Jfy hon. friend comu 
 
 wound up, by saj-ing 
 
 so, but I do not acci 
 
 fully, as you had a c 
 
 .vour oMHi irdnd whiclj 
 
 ment, and, therefore 
 
 quite correct. But bi 
 
 lie put it in plain I 
 
 that the Minister of I 
 
 falsifletl tile record ■> 
 
 friend talks of lecord 
 
 tad to his hands a 
 
 where ? To tiio Ameri 
 
 tlio doClimeut ? A let 
 
 Blaine. My ixon. friei 
 
 statement made a yen 
 
 the authority of a Mi 
 
 of the two-fellow U 
 
 Waslitngton-a statcni< 
 
 ntller than that niiid 
 
 chose to ignore that ev 
 
 ^ ."--r aa tJiL' aole reix)rd 
 
 Uoes it nuLke any hitrii 
 
 I niado my statement 
 
 room and presented It I 
 
 or whether I stated it 
 
13 
 
 solemn stUluess of the S'lhhnth 
 
 I would Mther +>ini i »'iooatli moniing. 
 
 stillneas of ho^hh.n''''"''^ '"•'"'^ ^^ ^^'^Ui 
 tug blow Its hom 10 o'r™' ^^ ^''^^'"« ^'"■ 
 would ortli7gaSlT fuT""^ *^''"^ ^''^ ^^ 
 whiei, society f'n, compact upon 
 
 wouldbetieouvonf i ""■'■ ^"' "'<^«« t^^'> 
 is to be said of a mfbi^ fT^'l"^' ^^"' ^^*«t 
 
 MK. DAVIKS AVD TirK WASUIVGTOV (-QX- 
 
 iiipii 
 
 err. My hon f ri wi Provinces, ought to 
 
 so well knoAvn, always full r.f ^ i 
 once, whethiM- fh^!./ ■ ''^ velieni- 
 
 Su"°£"™'' '«"' SSI- r.;; a 
 
 ;";,,™' ' >i» n»t accuse j-ou of dome it wil 
 M Ij, as j-ou lm,l a cemln bins Smfcto 
 
 statement made a year ago in tl.i« WriVi^ 
 
 nS,foJ*s,st^^=55r 
 
 be tiTie? WIi.it Vn!™ '"■^''■'' 't to 
 
 l-'Unn Mr. KtL-s wS,"'"" '.'"''■'' >» 
 
 tiling tlia^ too k T.ln .r '"^'"^'f every single 
 
 against Mr. BlaZ; llTivi ^^f *'""*'' ^^"^ 
 letter a reooi-d of evoi-t T ,' writi,en lu tbat 
 As a matter of ^ictVi'J^V''''^ *""'^ P'"^'*- 
 fifth part of ^W .?t' t, ,""* r' ^^''te one- 
 <'«rded no Jrotoco s • i l,.'""'"'- ^^^' '•«" 
 Ho simply placed n "lorn • "'t7" "°"'^'- 
 of the 'Prcsiden giv ng''n"\ "f ''""'^ 
 fences his recollection of ti,n '7 '*''"- 
 as bearing on tlm nxmest r.f''r^""""^'' 
 and of what he shoiUd 4 ort Ti 1 S"""^'"^^ 
 
 the statement of Mr Blaine -""*"* '^"''^""" 
 u-ccid. If ho will sit still, I Mil tell him. 
 
 Mr. CHAKLTON. Say yes or no. 
 
 tlifHo'S*'w^-t.?eS^"^'^' '''^' ' *^ 
 
 S.tT;;^bS--1™Jii;££^£ 
 
 IJias m my otvtx dii-eotion. Am I alone hum on 
 
 »ia" 'in t'ir sS "-^ of^^r'^'^. -T/ 
 
 States, Which might indine hi, ""o 4vf • 
 
 .in,i r,^ * strictly unbiassed report 
 
 nd mmo a falsiticatiou of the re<-onl 
 unworthy of crwlenco. \ow, my ho ' 
 friend put a question to me a 1?/; 
 while ago. which I will answer for he Air 
 Davies) sald-I can road Ms words If he 
 doubte m^that the Secretaiy of S^te Air 
 LtatSlnt''"^wnf'" .'"'"^'^ Mr.*'1SstJ?« 
 
 P?,f fi ^^l'^ ■^'■''^"lent made by me' 
 Put the two :,. cords sid(i bv side I sav 
 more than Mr. Blaine did ; Mr. B l.a no says 
 
 m'.*"'''"=i '"*'• I «-i'^l everything that air 
 Blaine said-I do not mean ju^t m Ixactly the 
 
 f 
 
 .s 
 
14 
 
 same language, but I treated every one of 
 the poiiita he trwitod— but be dUl not trt'iit 
 all of the points that I did. Jlr. Blaine 
 Btated that the first proposal made was for 
 retiproclty in natural producU, -svith such 
 extensions and qualifleiitious as the altered 
 clreunLsraiux^ roquinNl. I stattxl tbat ; wc 
 agree in that point. Mr. Blaine stated that a 
 list of uiauufiictimHl arlicU-s was to Iwinciud- 
 wl aloii« with that «" natural products. I 
 stated that the lino must bo in natural 
 products and niaiuifacturos Rouei-:illy. Tliere 
 is a divergence, bnt tbat is all. Mr. 
 Blaine stated that theio must be discrinllna- 
 tlon asainst Oroat Britain ; I stated tliere 
 must be dlsci-iminatlon against Great Bri- 
 tain. In aU these particulars we are ex- 
 actly alike or we are very close together. 
 For, the rest, I make statements and deal 
 with subjects which Mr. Blaine does not 
 touch, but which were cUscussed hi the con- 
 ference that took place, and dJscussed for 
 some considerable time. Now, I ask my hon. 
 friend, whether he has been (piKe fair to me 
 in representing Mr. Blaine sis having recorded 
 all that took place, as giving the only re- 
 cord that should be relied upon, and refus- 
 hig to take uiv statement as a record of 
 the case, in refusing to look upon my state- 
 ment as worthy of credence, at least, 
 equally with that of Mr. Blaine. At 
 least he sliould give me the credit that 
 he felt disposed to give in the flret part 
 of his address, when he said that I had not 
 wilfully misrepresented. I know that when 
 the hon. gentleman reads what he has said 
 and thinks over the matter, he will feel that 
 he has been unfair to mo in that respect, as 
 no man should b(^ to his fellow member, sit- 
 ting opposite to .iim in the House of Com- 
 mons, where all men are supposed to be 
 gentlemen. Now, Sir, I have not one word or 
 one syllable to retract of the statement 1 
 made last year on that point I stand by ic ; 
 I stand by it entirely ; I stand by it witliout 
 any mental resei-vation ; I stjmd by it in 
 the presence of my colleagues who were 
 there with me. And I ask this House to 
 judge of the sense of fairness of that hon. 
 gentleman who ciin find the only authori- 
 tative statement on the part of the stranger 
 and refuse all credence or credit for honesty 
 to his fellow citizen and his fellow member. 
 
 WHAT TllK OPPOSITION' WANT. 
 
 Xo;v. Sir, I wish to say a word f)r two in 
 closing, with reference to the general subject. 
 I find that I have been kept close to the 
 points which have been made to-night or re- 
 cently, and that I have not touched the gen- 
 eral points which I had hoped to deal with, 
 which were made during the debate. 1 close 
 with this simple thought, and I ask the 
 :|tieutiou of my fellow membei-s on this side 
 oi the House, and 1 a.sk tlie aUeutiou of the 
 country as Avell. These hon. gentlemen may 
 not be very well agreed as to what they want, 
 but they are perfectly agreed as to what they 
 ure against. When you come to sum up the 
 
 expressions of the foremost men as to what 
 tliey want thei'e is a ^vide divergence of 
 opinion among them. They agree as to their 
 positive faith In very few principles, and in 
 other respects there is a wide divergence. The 
 hon. gentleman fi>r Soudi OxfoM (Sir Richard 
 (Jartwrlght) believes in imreslricted recipro- 
 niiy ; he w'ants access to the United States 
 markets, and believes that it is the only salva- 
 tion for Canada in the line of development and 
 permanent prosperity. The Jion. member for 
 North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton) is determined to 
 devote his lil'e to getting imreslricted re- 
 el procitv. Tlie hon. member for tjueen's, 
 P.B.I. (Mr. Davies) is less definite and 
 pre<^ise. He has foimd out that it is the best 
 sonietiimes not to say too much or say It too 
 posidvely, so this time he Inxi'ks back con- 
 siderably, and he sums up Ids policy in 
 this wonderfully positive and definite form : 
 " AVe desire tjie broadest treaty pos3il)le con- 
 sistent with the commercial and political in- 
 dependence of Canada." The hon. member for 
 SouO> Brant (Mr. Paterson) had a little good 
 humoured chaff witli me because, he said, I 
 was indeliuite in my statement ; but he capped 
 theilimaxof indefiniteness. He declared: "I 
 want the freest possible trade with the United 
 States, consiste:.:; with the dignity, honour 
 and stability of both comitries." He is much 
 tlLs.satisfied with me because I stated tliat I 
 woifid do the l)ost for the whole couuti-y. He 
 determined to be very definite, and tliis is his 
 definition. I can see my hon. friend going 
 from this House iuid meeting a farmer, one of 
 those depressed fanners of wliom he speaks, 
 and the farmer says : Mr. Paterson, you are 
 just down from the Legislative halls. I know 
 you are a very learned man, and a very fam- 
 ous politician; I knowyom* keenness of vision 
 and your breadth of comprehension. I want to 
 know whellier you are going to get me the 
 market of the United States ? And tlie hon. 
 gentleman will satisfy the burning thirst of 
 that poor, depressed farmer by say- 
 ing : All I can tell you is that I 
 want tlie freest possible trade with the 
 United States consistent with tlie dignltj-, 
 honour and stability of both countries. Then 
 lie will meet one of tliose prosperous mimu- 
 facturers of his own town, who ^vlii come to 
 him with anxlely in his face, and say : Now, 
 Mr. Paterson, wliat is to be the end of this 
 matter ; are we going to have reciprocity, and 
 if we have It, as you say we must, are wo 
 to be mercilessly exposed to competition -with 
 the United States V And the g(xxl member 
 will draw himself up to hi • ftdi height and 
 say : I c^iimot tell you w aether It wiU 
 be that way or not ; but I can tell you 
 my faitli and creed— I want the freest possible 
 trade with the "United States consistent with 
 the dignity, honour and stability of both 
 countries. And so he will satisfy evei-j' one 
 of his constituents with tb-ot most definite 
 and positive statement and, if in his town 
 they do not iiut up a monument sjicred to 
 the" great N. P., I am sure they will put up 
 a monument sacred to the positive clearness 
 
 Mr. TAKTE. Perbap 
 
 Mr FOSTER. Porha 
 I will leave it to hini 
 said that he is going i 
 as wUl raise the value 
 I ducts, and that Mr. Lai 
 power, wlU leave two < 
 staiidiuj: in the teiaple , 
 
 Mr. TARTE. I ueve: 
 |an.vUiui^' oC tilie kind. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. Then 
 I French. I will look that 
 [wrong I will witlKirawii 
 IJliatis what my lion, fri 
 I five side. 
 
 Onr policy fr,mi first t(, 1; 
 W'lis villainou.s system of pi 
 HHhvr w cut its head off, ', 
 Pt "1 two in the inifl,l!e-\vl 
 flfgtrfiy It. 
 
 too is no hideflnitenesi 
 £-•"• "ipmber for North i 
 fon) says : 
 
15 
 
 Mid definite concepUon of tbo great w p 
 Tlie member for Bothwell (Mr M.irT ' 
 the most conservative of -ii ^ xr ^^'"^^ ''^ 
 
 tb« profits of the fannOTs-- ° iucr«,.se 
 
 never said or wrote 
 
 auy- 
 
 Mr. TARTK. I 
 thing of the Idud. 
 
 Mr. FOSTER. If ,uy i,„„. f,iond— 
 Mr. DAVUOS (P.E.I.) Talie it bacli 
 
 TARTE. 
 
 Mr. 
 
 Perhaps that is it. 
 
 WHAT TIIKV AlilO OPPo.SKl, TO. 
 
 lonhoHouse'towlnt^;;''^^ ^^"^ '^^^«°««" 
 Iwbou tiiev mme .'!^'\^„^"°s«. gentlemen say 
 
 J'lu.r. is no^(^t,i^^^^^^^^^ «^d«- Hero 
 
 Idefiuiteness Tboi .^^ ' * '"'"^ ^^ "» ^'^ck of 
 
 J th. offlVr olX/'eo*^,:.'^^ wZtTs^h^^i? 
 IpS^^ '^e hon. momK>;«sS 
 
 There Is no Indeflniteness abo,it tJiat Th^ 
 HsaT: '"'■ ^""^ ^""^^"^ (Mr!' Chad! 
 
 '^o^u ot It, isneithtT inoro or le.'^s tlikn a 
 
 1 . 'S 'rj;j:u!:;:';:s ™r, ^7 r ' ,•"■■■■ >™- 
 
 tl.eir otTino^ Now T ir^"" *'^l»-o.ssions of 
 
 »arpi.S;.riSSi;-oZi 
 »i„«d ,„a which^'-^ititrar-rt.-M 
 
 iTt Ir?' '™''™ ™» »»« ""£ 
 
l(i 
 
 I 
 
 / 
 
 Labour dtecoutinucd, and nmltipllcd (llHUHlcrw 
 ooiuiuK upon lUiiny :i section of iliis oouiiti-y 
 fiHJUi Capo Ifi-otou to British Columbia, lu 
 tJi« propositiou beforo us to-nirfit they put 11 
 mildly. It is a little ooououiy, a llttlo rc- 
 vis'lou, and a litilo of someliiliiK olso ; but 
 you must look at the niotlv(! tliat In- 
 spires tluMii. A Brilisli *)vertMKU held out 
 lu tho baud and placed within your pahn Is 
 a Rood thiuf,'. You cau buy food and cloMilu^ 
 M'ith It ; but tho sjirao Hrltish soverciKU 
 pTe«sc<l tijrhtly upon the opening of your wluil- 
 pipe will biliij? death, and briii;; It (inlckly. 
 Out.sido of these as.sertion,s of ultiuKMe jiur- 
 poso on tho part of hon. sentli'nu'n opiioslle 
 tho proposition before the House may com- 
 Diiio features which are In Ihemselves harm- 
 le.ss, sonio of which may ))e rlwht ; but it 
 Is a coin which is meant to siranule llie 
 principle of protection and destroy it In 
 
 tills country. I ask hon. gentlemen 
 to weigh carefully these matters ; to 
 welufh them when they como before liie 
 lieo|ilo ; to have them put rlglit tipon every 
 liustbitfs, iuid in ovci-y .assembly in this 
 country, so that people m.ay vote with their 
 eyes oi>en to the ftili consequences of their 
 action ; and if, after doing that, it be found 
 tliat this battle, pressed to the flnish, as it will 
 lie, results in a victory for" tho principle of 
 free ti'ado rather than protfH'tion, so be it ; 
 but I have a firm and abiding faith that th(> 
 way to victory docs not lie by that path. 
 
 OTTAWA 
 
 Printed by S. E. Dawson 
 
 Printer to the Queen's Most Excelleit Majesty 
 
 1893