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Les diagrammes suivants illustrent la m^thode. f errata d to It le peiure, pon § n 32X 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 ^ *? .. '^^^^?^?^ff # # ^ «A^^ ^,^. « ™« cm,,,^ |l ^'^apcr % RflAD onsr 7>^FieiL s, i884 AT THK liOYAL COLONIAL INRTITUTE BY ALEXANDER liEGG, Esq. WITH THE DISCUSSION THEREON Jlv printed front the (!oLOMEs AM) India UULISIIElJ 13 V AUTHORITY OF T II E COUNCIIL print cb bi' .^toTTISWOODi; \ CO., M:\V.STKKKT SQIARK, LONDON 1S84 / T— 7 ■A !e«^4i^«^iaM(stW«DMeW>#n«°ii :> •l'.^ V • ^-' ■>- '^~.. JyX.^^' /yv a^ /:.— r 5 V ' Q ^ ■'i ^ ^ ^^,.^TI"^CA..4,,^^ A > A^ ^ BY ALEXANDER BEGG. % \ 4^ %>. It is diflScult to understand how a country so vast in extent and rich in resources as that now known as the Canadian North-West should have so long escaped the attention of the civilised world. For ages those fertile territories lay dormant — a great wilderness of waste, unknown except to the red man and the fur trader ; and only now is the value ard importance of North-Western Canada beginning to dawn upon the minds of people on this side of the Atlantic. Perhaps, if we take a slight glance at the early history of the country, we may be able to discover some reason for this long and singular absence of development in a land which is now t'ourid to be teeming with fruitfulness. In 1670 (over two hundred years ago) Prince Rupert, with a number of English noblemen and gemlemen, succeeded in obtaining a charter from Charles IL, the ostensible object of which, as then stated, was to push trade in the direction of the North Pole, and to find, if possible, a new passage to the South Sea. The practical effect of the charter, however, was to secure to Prince Eupert and his colleagues proprietary nj,'-hts over a considerable portion of the North-West. The validity of the charter has been frequently questioned, on the ground that at the time it was granted the country did not belong to England, but to France. This was the commencement of that great cor[juration, the Hudson's Bay Company. In 1700 fur traders from Fra'ce are known to have penetrated the country as far as the Assininoine Valley, and in 1784 the North- West Company of Montreal was formed. The Hudson's Bay Company, therefore, in spite oP their charter, did not have things all their own way, and naturally a fierce spirit of rivalry sprang up between them and the oih-r com- panies interested in the fur trade. So strong, indeed, becamn the competition that it resulted in great loss of property and life in the frequent conflicts that took placy ; and this state of affairs lasted till 1820, when a fusion of the different fur companies was eiieoted, A by which they agreed to trade together under the original charter of the Hudson's Bay Company. In 1821 the company was recon- structed, and was granted by Act of Parliament the exclusive fur trade in the North-West for a period of twenty-one years. In 18138^ the licence granted under the Act of 1821 was surrendered, and a new arrangement made for a better union of the different interests represented in the company. A renewal of the licence was then applied for and granted on May 30, so that the monopoly of the fur trade claimed by the Hudson's Bay Company really expired on May 30, 1859. For ten years or more, however, after that date the fur trade remained the principal business,. and, in reality, the controlling power in the country. Having once been a fur trader myself, I may perhaps be allowed taremark that fur trading and civilisation cannot very well go hand in hand ; the latter invariably puts and end to the former. The Hudson's Bay Company and the fur traders knew this ; ib was not their business to develop the country, but to prosecute tlie fur trade and they could hardly be expected to encourage settlement, and thereby damage their legitimate calling. Neither is it to be won- dered at if they sought to underrate the resources of the country in order to prevent the incoming of settlers. In fact, so strong was the feeling against settlement, that it became a sort of fixed principle with the fur traders that the North- West was not and never could be fit for aught but fur trading. And I am inclined to think that most of them believed in the truth of this principle. As an instance, Ne find the Governor of the Hudson's Bay Company, Sir George (Simpson, in 1857, making the broad statement before a committee of the British House of Commons, that no portion of the country was, in his opinion, suitable for successful settlement. Whether spirits walk the earth, we cannot tell, but were the ghost of Sir George Simpson to visit the North- West to-day, Sir George in the spirit would, I fancy, be inclined to reverse the verdict given by Sir George in the flesh. One dare not suppose what the latter would say did he know that his old company were now offering for sale 8,000,000 acres of farming and grazing lands in the very country he himself described as unsuitable for settlement. Whilst, however, one cannot exonerate the fur traders from a desire to keep back settlement in the North- West, and from fre- quently misrepresenting the country to serve their own purposes, j^et it must be remembered that there were also physical causes which prevented its rapid development. South of the international boundary line lay an immense area of prairie land without people or the proper means of communication, and the Canadian North- West was consequently in a position of almost complete isolation, and unprepared to receive settlers. This was, doubtless, the principal cause of its tardy development. When I first went to the North-West, in 1867, the railway system of the United States had not reached as far west as St. Paul, and the only means of communication with that city was the Mississippi 1 steamboat in summer and the stage in winter. What a change has since taken place 1 How vast a network of railways has been built during the past seventeen years throughout the entire country, reaching even to the Pacific Ocean ! I remember well the diflB- culties experienced during' my first trip to Fort Garry, the eile of the present city of Winnipeg. An Indian pony attached to a rude ox-cart was the only conveyance to be had, and with that I set out to travel some 500 miles over the houseless prairie to my destina- tion. It happened to be an unusually trying season for mosquitoes, and had I not been fortunate enough to fall in with a party of traders on their way home, I fear I never could have accomplished the journey. Day after day we travelled — starting at daybreak and journeying till the heat compelled us to encamp. In the cool of the evening we again harnessed our horses and travelled till dusk, and so we continued for nearly three weeks, the heat and thetlies allowing us to make but slow progress. To-day you may make the journey in twenty-four hours, seated in a comfortable Pullman car, instead of the rude ox-cart of former years. When I first travelled over the route no houses were to be met with — no settlers to offer you hospi- tality — and the cart-trail of the prairie was the only mark to guide you on your way. Now the country is studded with farms and farm-houses ; cities, towns, and villages have sprung into existence, and railways are to be found running in every direction. An in- cident connected with that trip may interest you. One of the traders in our party had with him a white horse, which invariably each night singled me out as I lay wrapped in my blanket under my cart, and did me the honour of knocking the mosquitoes off his nose against my head. I bore the infliction of the white horse for several nights, but at last determined to get rid of him. For that purpose I placed a stick with one end in the camp fire, the other ready to take hold of when required. Then, wrapped in my blanket, I waited. Presently round came my friend, sniffing at my head as usual. With a bound I caught the lighted stick, and made after my tormentor, and he, supposing, no doubt, the de'il was after him, galloped off into the darkness as fast as his hobbles would permit him. Suddenly he disappeared from view and I returned to camp, thankful for being rid of him. In the morning there was a great outcry for the white horse, but no white horse was there ; and being a stranger, and not knowing the ways of the country, I discreetly held my tongue. A personal examination, however, showed me that I had driven the poor brute to the edge of the river bank, which was steep at that point, and he, toppling over into the water, was very likely drowned ; at least he has never been seen from that day to this. Speaking of white horses reminds me that in the old days the Indian squaws had a great partiality to white horse hairs for fancy work, and used to rob the poor beasts mercilessly. Often would one see a white horse with but an apology for a tail, the hairs having gone to add to the finery of some Indian " brave." a2 To resume, however. We had during all this time been travelling on American soil, but when about sixty miles from our destination we crossed the international boundary, and passed from the United States into British territory. Never shall I forget the scene that presented itself when I first saw Fort Garry. Hundreds of Indian lodges and tepies covered the plain, many of the aborigines and plain hunters having congregated at the spot to obtain supplies for the winter hunt. Half a irile from the fort stood about a dozen houses, the homes and shops of the free traders, and there were not, I suppose, one hundred white men, all told, living in the place where to-day is a city of over 30,000 inhabitants. Signs of an approaching change in the form of government were apparent when I arrived in the country. The Hudson's Bay Company were the ostensible rulers, and under their jurisdiction a court was held regularly for the settlement of disputes, and a tax of 4 per cent, levied on all im- ports ; but there lacked respect for the authority of the company's officers. The Nor'- Wester, a rabid little newspaper, published in the neighbourhood of Fort Garry, bitterly opposed the company, and assisted in no small degree in fanning popular discontent. The first few years I spent in the North- West under the Hudson's Bay Company's rule were nevertheless amongst the happiest of my life. No nearer approach to perfect freedom have I ever seen or known. No burdensome taxes, no exacting laws, no lawyers, no rents ; every man free to do as he liked so long as he held in proper regard the person and property of his neighbour. A single constable represented the police force, but even the dignity of this worthy functionary did not at times prevent the key of his own gaol being turned upon him by the young men when bent upon enjoying themselves. But people never know when they are well off, and therefore, as I have already said, a desire for change began to fchow itself. A few miles north of Fort Garry was a settlement consisting of the descendants of the hardy sons of Scotland, who came to the North-West in 1812 and 1814, under the care of Lord Selkirk. Time would fail me to recount the many hardships and trials these settlers endured from depredations by Indians, from floods, and other disasters, but some idea of their pluck and perseverance is shown by the fact that it was not till 1827 that they became reaMy settled in their homes. Fifteen years' battle with adversity could not break the Scottish spirit of these pioneers ; and to-day their settlement, known as the parish of Kildonaai, is one of the finest spots in the whole North-West. Soon after my arrival I became connected with the fur trade, joining the free traders, in opposition to the Hudson's Bay Com- pany. The firm in which I became a partner employed many traders, to whom we granted outfits or supplies of goods, ranging from 300Z. to 1,000Z. each in value. Our mode was to place a hundred per cent, advance on the first cost of the goods, and at that rate they were invoiced to the traders, who then bartered them for furs. If tlic cat a happened to be good we were the gainers ; if bad, often considerable losers. It was, in fact, a game of ciiance. There were two sets of men we had to deal with: the plain hunters and fur traders. The former wore, as a rule, splendid fellows; the latter too frequently thriftless and given to drink. It was customary in the early days for the plain hunters to combine together to form a large party— a brigade sometimes consisting of over 1,'J()0 carts, as many horpes, and some six or seven hundred oxen. Each party framed laws for the government of its members, and for days ,and days they would travel over the o[)en prairie, until they approaclied the vicinity of the buffalo, when tliey would form a stationary camp. It was a rule of the plain not to hunt the buffalo singly. The hunters went out in a body on horses trained for the purpose. Slowly they would apjiroach the herd, until the word was given by the leader — " Ho ! " Then it was each man for himself. Away they sped, dashing in amongst the frightened buffaloes; right and left the hunters fired, the horses, trained for the purpose, guiding them- selves, atd leaving the rider free to kill as he rode. The hunt woidd extend sometimes for miles. Then the return to camp was sounded, and so familiar were the men with the work that each one could single out the animals he had slain. Next came the skinning of tlie buffalo, and the preparation of the meat by sun -drying ; and when suflicient had been collected to fill the carts the party re- turned to the traders who had supplied the outfit to render an account of the trip. In the finer furs — such as mink, marten, beaver, &c. — the traders had to deal with the wood Indians. Sometimes, especially in the winter, we traders had to endure what may be termed hardships in the prosecution of our business. Frequently we had to travel for miles over the snow with sleds. These consisted of a broad board turned up in front, and drawn by OTir dogs. Each set of dogs could draw about four hundred pounds, but as the bedding, provisions, and furs belonging to the traveller generally filled the sled, he had to content himself with running on snow-shoes. The dogs were driven by word of mouth — "Chuck" meaning to the right; "Yew," to the left; and " Maich," forward. I have frequently travelled for hundreds of miles by this means, sleeping on the snow at night with no roof over- head but the clear wintry sky of the North-West, and yet I enjoyed it ; never was frost-bitten, and never experienced better health. I could give you some interesting details of my experience as a fur trader, but time forbids. Enough, however, has been said to show the rude state of the country when I first made the North- West my home. Along the banks of the Red and Assiniboine rivers there were a few scattered settlements, consisting of French, English, and Scotch half-breeds ; but there were then few white men in the country. It was generally supposed that settlement could not be successful on the prairie at any distance over a mile from the river. Now the whole plain is dotted wifch farms and farm-houses. At that time there existed no proper means of 6 communication with the outside world. The supplies of the settle- ment had to be brou,000,()00 acres, has since had its boundaries extended, and is now estimated to contain an acreage of 70,000,000. It is the only province as yet formed in the North-West, but five judicial districts have been mapped out, viz., Keewatin, Assiniboia, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Athabasca, all of which will in time become provinces enjoying representative institutions, as i)rovided for by the articles of the Confederation of the Dominion. The province of Manitoba, like the other provinces of Canada, has a legislature of its own, consisting, at present, of tl. rty-two members, elected every four years by the people. The deliberations of this assembly are pre- sided over by a Speaker, and are governed by strict parliamentary rules. There is' a Lieutenant-Governor appointed every four or five years by the Governor-General of the Dominion in Council. The Cabinet consists of the Provincial Treasurer, Attorney-General, Minister of Public Works, Secretary, Minister of Agriculture, and President of the Council. These Ministers, as in all other consti- tutional governments, hold office so long as they enjoy the confi- dence of the Legislative Assembly representing the people. The legislation enacted so far has been of a thoroughly practical character, to meet the growing wants of the country. The province is divided into municipalities, each having a local government of its own, with the right of electing annually a reve and councillors for the administration of its affairs. There are also school districts, receiving aid in the shape of an annual grant from the Provincial Government. The school system of Manitoba is modelled after that of Ontario to a great extent, but it is widely different in some respects. There are no separate schools, as in the east, but the Catholic and Protestant schools are two distinct and independent branches of the one general system, and no Catholic can be taxed for the support of a Protestant school, nor any Protestant for the support of a Catholic school. The school rate is always levied on this principle, and the Provincial Government gives a grant of 100 dollars a year to each school of both divisions. The great increase in the number of the schools established in all parts of the country is remarkable. In 1 871 there were only sixteen schools and 816 pupils in Manitoba all told ; but in 1881 the number had grown to 128 schools and 4,919 pupils, and this year to over 250 schools and 10,000 pupils, as shown by the returns. The standard of qualification is very high, but not quite so technical as in some of the eastern provinces. Tlie settlers of Manitoba have this advantage over those of Dakota, where the teachers in most of the rural dis- tricts are of the poorest grade, and generally girls, whose education is very superficial indeed. Nearly all the religious denominations 18 are more or less represented in the country, and in new settle- ments, where the people are unable to support a church, visiting clergymen arrange to hold regular aervices, either in tlie school- house or in one of the farmhouses, I have already given a short outline of some of tlie principal towns, but tliere are other important points in the North-West. Amongst these I may mention Emerson and West Lynne, situated on the internal ional boimdary, as j ou enter the province from the State of Dakota ; and also Selkirk, about thirty miles north of Winnipeg, now connected by a short line to the main line of the Canadian Pacific 'Hallway. These are all flourishing towns. Selkirk, from its po.'iiion near the southern end of Lake Winnipeg, is destined to be the distributing point for all the produce and supplies rid the lake and river Saskatchewan. Speaking of this noble river, I may say its total length, taking the north branch from the Rocky Mountains to Lake Winnipeg, is 1,054 miles. At the present time there are some eight or ten large steamers plying on its waters, and the improvements now being carried out by the Dominion Government will add largely to its navigation. Already several extensive settlements are established along its banks, and within the next few years these will doubtless increase considerably both in number and importance, especially as some of the finest farming lands in the North- Wes*- are to be found there. To the south, then, we have the great trans- continental railway, the Canadian Pacific, with its numerous branches, some of which are already built and in operation, and others projected for immediate construction ; and to the north the broad Saskatchewan River, with its fleet of steamers. With such means of communication, can you wonder at the impetus now being given to the rapid settlement of the country ? Other railroads are being built and projected throughout the North-West, and within the next ten or fifteen years we may expect to see the whole land one vast network of railways. Having now given you a slight sketch of the history of the country and its development, the progress of the railway and other means of communication, as well as some of the institutions, it may be well to look at the class of settlers who have already made this country their home, and the practical capabilities of the land for settlement, though on these points so much has recently been said that it is difficult to introduce what has not already been discussed. First of all are the old settlers, many of whom have since come to the fore, and now hold prominent positions in their native province. Among these a noteworthy figure is the Premier of Manitoba, the Hon. John Norquay — a man of high educational powers and legis- lative ability, a fluent and eloquent speaker ; he has held the reins of power during the greater part of the last decade. The cheapness and the fertility of the land, and the ease with which it can be placed under a state of cultivation, did not fail to attract the attention of. ! 19 s farmers livinj^ in the older provinces of the Dominion, and large numbers sold out their farms in Eastern Canada, and removed to the North-West. These settlers fvere mostly possessed of means, and were of a superior class. Gradually people from Great Britain began to follow in the footsteps of the Canadian farmers, until within the last year or two a very large immigration of British farmers and mechanics has taken place, and this immigration is annually increasing in a remarkable degree. The settlers from Great Britain who have made their homes in the North- West are also of a superior clas:^, most of them having means and some of them con- siderable capital. There is a large colony of Russian Mennonites, who are settled '^y themselves, and having brought capital with them, these colonists have managed by their thrift to increase their Worldly possessions to a remarkable extent. A colony of Icelanders has also been formed, and tliese, though very poor when they arrived, have succeeded so well as to induce a large number of their fellow- countrymen to follow them last year to the North- West. Germans, Scandinavians, Dutch, Swiss, and other nationalities are also being attracted to the country, and it is impossible to say, now that the ball of immigration has commenced rolling, to what extent it may not go. The French element in the North-West is one of the oldest in the country, but it has not increased to any great extent of late years as compared with the people of oiher nationalities. In short, the settlers in the Canadian North- West are, as a rule, of an excellent class, law-abiding and industrious. Lawlessness is not popular there, as was, and is even now, too much the case in the Western States of the Union. As an instance of thig, I may state that the Canadian Pacific Uailway Company, in the work of construction, have never had the least troul)le in the management of the thousands of navvies employed by them in building the road. This is due in a great measure to the fact that in the North-West territories of Canada the sale of intoxicating liquors is prohibited, and anyone known to give or sell liquor to an Indian is liable to a severe punishment. There is, moreover, a law on the statute book of the Province of Manitoba whereby an habitual drunkard may be arrested in his downward course. A complaint has only to be made and proven by his wife or any relative or friend that he is ruining himself and his family by drink, and on the strength of this his name is posted in all places where intoxicating liquors are sold, after which anyone giving or selling him liquor is liable to a heavy penalty. Through the stories set afloat by the fur traders in the old days, and through the persistent efforts of interested opponents of the country, the climate has been represented as almost unbearable. Well, I lived there seventeen years, and never found such to be the case. Indeed, I have found the raw dimp cold of London worse to bear than the clear sharp weather of the North-West. The climate, as can be testified to by thousands of settlers, is eminently healthy, and on this point I cannot do better than quote what the Provincial li Government dt Manitoba says in its last annual report:— "On account of the bracing, dry atmosphore, the fluctuations of tempera- ture are not inconveniently felt, as is the case where the atmosphere is more humid. The warm days in summer are generally followed by cool evenings, and such a thing as very sultry and oppressive heat is scarcely known. The warm days, followed by cool nights and copious dews, facilitate the growth of cereals in a wonderful degree. The winters here are also very bracing, proceeding from the same cause, namely, the dryness of our atmosphere. Instead of a Manitoba winter being the dismal hib(!rnating period that its enemies would have it believed, it is a period of rest for nature and of jollity for the people — it is intensely enjoyable rather than tiresome and dreary. In no less favoured clime can be seen such winter skies, such brilliant moonlight. Nowhere else can the same bracing, invigorating atmosphere be breathed. Instead of winter causing a suspension of work here, as is popularly supposed in the east, building operations are carried on all the winter; pile-driving is kept up without intermission. South of the 41)th parallel, in the United States, blizzards and other winter storms are more frequent and severe, snow-blockades are more common, and stock perish in large numbers, while here they thrive through the winter." The spring commences early in April, and ploughing is then begun. Winter sets in about the middle of November, so that the farmer has about seven months and a half for farming operations. This time is divided as follows: April and May are devoted to ploughing and seeding ; hay time is in June and July, while the crops are ripening ; and harvesting takes place in August and September, while in October the pulling of the root crops is proceeded with. Thus the time of the farmer during the warmer months of the year is fully occupied. In winter he takes care of his stock and does other work preparatory for the spring, and hauls his j roduce to the markets, the roads over the snow being excellent for drawing large loads. Speaking on this much-vexed question reminds me of recent meteorological observations in Manitoba, which furnish some interesting tacts regarding the sunshine of the province and its influence upon the climate both in winter and summer. These observations show that in Winnipeg and other places of Manitoba, there are in the year comparatively few days that are completely clouded, and that the proportion of sunshine registered at Winnipeg in 1883 was largely in excess of that registered in most of the other towns in the Dominion. While the number of cloudy days in Winnipeg is 63, in Toronto it is 70, in Montreal 72, and in other towns in East ern Canada even still more. This fact will account to a great extent tor the rapid growth of plants in Manitoba during the long days of sunshine whicli are experienced there at certain periods of the year. Elevators and storehouses for the reception of grain are being rapidly erected along the line of the Canadian Pacific Railway, so that the farmer may have a ready and near market for his produce. ii '1 .0^ Komo idea of tlie rapidity of Ecttlcmentiyiuay bo galliered fromyTU© fact that the export of grain tliiw season m-tsti mated tolw) upv^rds of a,UUO,()00 bushels, againHt 1 ,000,000 last j ear. The hrrrvtst.s in the North- West are not only boutitiful, but certain ; at least, that \& the experience of the last »oven or eight >car8. Late last sumtuer, it is true, a cold vave swoi)t over the whole Ndrth Ameri- can continent, and the wheat crops of Manitoba that were still unharvested sufTered witli those of the rtst of North America from a feuramer frost, though not to so great an extent. Thi.s is, Ikjw- ever, a most unusual and exceptional occurrence, and will in all probability not occur tjgain for many years. The Hoods arising from ihc overflowing of the rivers in the .spring, of which you have doubtless lieard, occur at long intervals, alfecting only the latuls immediately adjoining the stream, and not spreading t.oyond half a mile at tlie niott from the bank. These Hoods do not, therefore, jiffect any considerable portion of the country. (Jrasshoppers, which in the old days vi>itcd the land, doiuj; mucli datua^'e to crops, ato not likely to visit the coun'ry a.ain, lor the experience of .Minne- sota and Dakota, two American States, vvliich aUo sulVeriMl from these pests, teaches us that settlement is a sure prevt-nuve of the grasshopper visitation. Tlie yield of the crops is tertamly wonder- ful. Whtat aveiagts I'-O bushels per acre; oats, G'.l ; I arley, 40 ; peas, .18 ; pota oes as high as 600 bushels, while turnips, as a general rule, yield 1.000 bushels to the acre. It has been ascertain i-d that the farmers in tl e Canadian Noith-West can a'Tord to sell their wheat, owing lo the large yield, 50 per cent, cheaper tlian tlio-^o in Minnesota, which is looked upon as the banner btatb of the Union for wheat-growing. One gratifying feature in connection with the Canadian North- West is the fact that the settlers who have made their homes there are, as a rule, content and prosperous ; nor do tliey hide their light under a bushel, but s^em proud of sounding the praises of their adopted country. On one occasion 1 rtceived no less than two hundred letters from settler friends of mine, giving me their experience ; and I am hapi)y to state that there was not a tingle case of discontent or regret at having settled in the country — all were happy and prosperous. People on this side have been for some time past kept informed as to what lias been termed the " agitation " among Manitoba farmers ; and wlule I have no de?ire to discubs the }jros and cons of the question, yet it must \ e remem- bered that the character of this •' agitation " is very apt to be mis- understood at this distance from the scene. The promisfd extension next summer of the 8outh-Western Eaihvay to White Lake, IGO miles from Winnipeg; the opening of the land, hiiiierto re.*>erved, winch that line will serve ; the removal of the mile belt restriction along the line of the Canadian Pacitic lliihvay; the further push- ing of railway facilities in the fertile belt ; the increased facilities and reduced charges between IMontreal and Winnipeg — these together will do much to remove any possible resson for disci. n- oZrt^-— v.. \S I tent. As compared with settlers in the Western States of the Union, farmers in the North West have far more advantages, and there can be no doubt — judging from past experience — that should real grievances be found to exist, everything in reason will be done by the Dominion Government to satisfy claims that have any justice. The soil, of course, varies in different localities — in some places it is lighter than others ; but, as a rule, it is a rich mould or loam, resting on a deep and tenacious clay subsoil. There are not only numerous rivers, creeks, lakes, and lakelets throughout the country, but it has now been ascertained that good water can be found almost anywhere by digging to a depth of from 10 to 20 feet. The fuel problem has virtually been solved by the discovery of rich coal deposits in different parts of the country. The coal beds in the Bow and Belly, rivers district have been the first to be actually worked, and the result of these workings has been highly satis- factc '-y. The immense extent of these coal beds has been approxi- mately ascertained by surveys under the direction of the Dominion Government Survey, and it is estimated that the quantity of coaJ underljing a square mile of land in the Bow and Belly rivera district is in one case 4,900,000 tons ; in two cases 5,000,000 ; and in another 0,000,000 tons. The coal is in general exposed on the surface, and there is consequently little labour necessary to the working of the mines. Though no Government surveys have been made in the surrounding districts, coal-bearing rocks are known to extend to the north and west of the parts from which coal is now being taken. Valuable and extensive coal beds are also known to exist in the Souris district, in Southern Manitoba and the south- eastern part of the North- West, and these will shortly be opened up by the projected Manitoba South- Western Branch of the Canadian Pacific Railway. Careful examination ehows that the coal deposits it: this district are of the tertiary age, consisting of lignite or brown coal, associated with clays and thin sheets of brimstone, and that the beds are so inclined as to make the working easy and inex- pensive. The coal is found to burn with a fierce heat, leaving about 5 per cent, of white ash, with no appearance of clinkers. Mining operations are to be commenced next season, and the successful working of these coal beds must prove of immense importance to the city of Winnipeg and the whole of Manitoba and the Canadian North- West. In addition to the coal, however, the banks of the rivers are lined with woods, and the plains are interspersed here and there with clumps of trees. In some cases farmers, it is true, have to haul their wood a good distance, but generally speaking the settlers can always obtain sufficient for their use. What more can I say about this great country 7 What greater proof of its adaptability for settlement can there be than the fact that when I first went there seventeen years ago there were only some 10,000 to 12,000 inhabitants (not including the Indians), while now there are said to be some 300,000 settlers, few if any being 23 discontented with their lot ? God forbid that I should ever be tho means of causing anyone to break up an established home or sever old and dear ties. But to those who, after deep and careful con- sideration, decide that it will be better for them to seek some other land, I say, look beyond the sea to this land of promise. Who can tell the future of the great Canadian I'Vorth-West ? Who, a quarter of a century ago, could have predicted the present flourishing con- dition of the Western States of the Union — with their cities con- taining hundreds of thousands of people, their immense network of railwajs, their wonderful institutions, their stupendous trade, and the almost miraculous development of their vast resources ? Yet we have in the Canadian North-West a country of equal ex- tent and resources. Why, then, should there not be the same development in the Canadian North-West as there has been during the last twenty-five years in the western territories of the United States ? The Discussion. The following is a full Report of the Discussion which followed the reading of the Paper : — The Chairman (Lieut.-General R. W. Lowry, C.B.) : After the deeply interesting Paper which we have just heard read, it becomes my duty to submit the names of those who have kindly undertaken to take part in the discussion. On looking over those names, since I have been privileged to take this chair, 1 find that most of them are to me " familiar as household words," and all of them are gentlemen well calculated to interest and enlighten us on the subiect on which they have promised to address us. The first is the name of a gentleman deeply honoured in my time in British North America, and which has been increasingly honoured since I left it. I refer to the Hon. Adams G. Archibald. (Applause.) The Hon. Adams G. Archibald, C.M.G., Q.C.: I do not know that I have very much to say, but I will trouble you with a few remarks on the most interesting and valuable Paper we have heard on the subject of the great North-West. My acquaintance with the district began not quite so early as that of Mr. Begg, but it began very soon afterwards. ]\Iy first knowledge of the country was acquired when we took over from the Hudson's Bay Company, in 18(59, the territory which forms the North-West. Mr. Begg has- given a graphic description of this oasis of the desert, and I think very few people apprehend the complete isolation in which the country was placed up to the time it was taken over by the Canadian Government. It lay in the very heart of the conti- nent, separated from the United htates, the first barrier of civilisa- tion, by a journey of over 500 miles, and separated from Canada by 800 miles of lakes and swamps. In the far west was the range of the Rocky Mountains, and to the north was the North Pole. ¥! 24 This country had been under the sway of the Hudson's Bay Company since 1670, and had been inhabited since 1811 by a colony of Scotchmen, brought over by Lord Selkirk. Tbe population when I went there consisted of 12,000 souls. From 1811 to 1870 the entire white population of the country did not grow to over 2,000, the remainder, about 10,000, being half-breeds. These half-breeds were of two classes, one deriving their white blood from the French and the other from the Scotch settlers. The latter seemed to devote themselves to the cultivation of the land, while those of Prench descent became hunters, although in either case not ex- clusively so. Another distinction was that the Fxench half-breeds were Catholics, while the others were Protestants. "Well, the Govern- ment took over the territory, after paying 300,000^. to the Hudson's Bay Company, ard v/ere called upon to govern ifc. The question v/as how they were to get to it. They tried to send a Governor through the State of Minnesota, but, owing lo the trouble in the land itself, and sympathy on the part of the State, he did not succeed in getting to our new province. It then became necessary to make the journey another way, starting from the north shore of Lake Superior. This journey had to be made in a birch bark canoe, witli a body of Indians, who had been accustomed to the work during the time of the Hudson's Bay Company. Three weeks and three days were spent before we eventually succeeded in getting into the country. Colonel Wolseley had gone just before with his troops for the purpofjo of putting down the re- bellion. Mr. Begg has alluded to the early bistory of the government of this territory. Under ordinary circumstances it would have been a mistake to grant responsible government to a people so little accustomed to municipal institutions of any kind. In this case I agree with Mr. Begg that it was right. The country could never have been pacified by the prosecution and punish- ment of oiienders in the troubles of the past. It was clear that the concession of responsible government, which gave the people the power to govern themselves as they pleased, was an implied •condonation of the past. They could hardly be expected to take active steps to bring their own trusted leaders and friends to punishment for offences in which they had shared or sympathised. There was therefore nothing to be done but to lock steadily forward — to ignore as far as possible the past, to be responsible only fcr the peace of the present and future. This was done, and, though there had never been an election in the country, and although they knew nothing of the ordinary forms of government, yet, in the course of a few months, or a year or so, things went on pretty much as in any other civilised country, and in the course of a few years our proceedings were conducted with as much regularity and system as elsewhere. (Applause.) It struck me that Mr. Begg did not give the Indians all the credit to which they are entitled. " He speaks of their great teature as gratitude. I think they may claim something more. I 25 negotiated the first treaty which was made with them. On that occasion we had among ns some 2,000 of these savage Indians frona the interior of their territory, and for fourteen days tliey were en- gaged in what was to them a most interesting and exciting discue- sion. During the whole of that time there was not an outrage of any kind — not a single breach of the peace. (Applause.) Is not that something in favour of the Indian character ? In this country I would like to see 2,000 of your finest roughs brought together and behave themselves for a foitnight in such a way as that. (Hear, hear.) There is one thing our people have learned with regard to the Indii.ns — that is, if they suspect you, you can do nothing with them ; but if they see you are in earnest to benefit them, iliey give you their entire confidence. (Hear, hear.) I have been engaged with them in several of these treaties, and been constantly with them, and I can say that I always found them faithful and honest. — I might almost say native gentlemen. They look like gentlemen. Take an Indian and put a blanket on him, his pose is statuesque. He talks, not like a common peasant, but as a man accustomed to sit round the council tire and to reason and discuss. Any man who puts down ti e Indian as ignorant and stupid makes the greatest possible mistake. (Applau-e.) l\rr. Bogg has spoken of the diffi- culties of comraunica'ion in former days. To give you an idea of this, I may mention that, when making the voyage of which I have spoken, ail ng tie north shore of Lake Superior, and tlirough the water stretches to Manitoba, we were desirous of net being over- loaded with impedimenta, and T, thinking what was required could be forwarded through I^tinnesota, actually neglected to put in my portmanteau a copy of the law by which the country was to bo governed. It was thrte months before the mail arrived. (Laughter.^ For three months I was governing the country without the statutes under which the government had to be condrjted. (Renewed laughter.) I will make another confession. This very law excluding the use of spirituous liquors from the Far West was made under the authority of a council which existed only on paper. (Laughter.) It was, however, a right law, wliich commended itself to the good sense of the people, and the Legis- lature afterwards confirmed that law. Another curious circum- stance occurs to m.e. In the first election of representatives to the House of Commons the writs were sent out in the mail and buried in the snow banks of Minnesota for three weeks. You know what use an Opp(»siii( n would make of such an event, even if it were an Opposition of the moderate kind you have in this country. (Laughter.) Fortunately, on ascertaining the facts, we succeeded in getting duplicates of the writs for conducting the elections. These facts, perhaps, are of no value, except as illustrating the change in the condition of tlie country. Last summer I visited the cuut. try again, and the journey, which took over three weeks in former days, now occupied fourteen hours. From Winnipeg to the Eocky M< un'ains is nine hundred miles, and only filteen years .1 1 20 ago the journey took forty days. I was there the other day, and the journey took thirty-six hours. When I think of this I cannot help feeling some pride that we have in our new country men with the manliness and pluck to carry forward these enterprises. It shows that we are not degenerating on that side of the water. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the climate, I can entirely corrobo- rate Mr. Begg's statements. I have felt the cold more — the sensation of bitter cold — on the mountains of Wales, with the thermometer two or three degrees below freezing-point, than in Manitoba with the thermometer thirty degrees below freezing- point. In fact, the thermometer is nothing to go by. One or two words in conclusion. The population has increased enormously. When I first went to Winnipeg I went out with my daughter one afternoon, when we made a census of the houses, of which there v/ere seventy. Allowing five for each house, the population would number three hundred and fifty, whilst now the place is inhabited by thirty thousand people. (Applause.) All this has taken place within fifteen years — the greater part of it within four. A change like this is almost unparalleled in the history of the world. From it one may form an idea of what the country is destined to become in a very few years, when the great North- Western plains will be filled by the population now pouring into them in so prodigious a stream. Truly the time is at hand when the Canadian may con- sider himself " the citizen of no mean country." Piincipal DAWSON, C.M.G., F.K.S. : After the exhaustive Paper we have heard read, and the address of my friend Governor Archibald, I feel there is not much to be said on the sub- ject, although, as you might judge from the nature of the soil, Manitoba is a somewhat fertile theme. (Laughter.) You have heard the statements of Mr. Begg in his able Paper, in which I can fully concur. I have had the pleasure of journeying across the West ern Plains as far as Calgary; and, looking with the critical eye of an old geologist, my good opinion of the country was very much strengthened in regard to its actual value as a portion of the ■earth for the support of man. (Hear, hear.) I found the railway — I mean the construction of the track — running out west at the rate of three miles a day, and the manner in which the thousands of workmen were organised and pushed forward the work in the most rapid and systematic manner was itself something worth a long journey to see. It was also interesting to see these thousands of men, from all sorts of places on the face of the earth, behaving in the most orderly way. The country seemed to have no need of police. No doubt the great secret of this is that the people are sober. (Hear, hear.) Nobody can get anything to drink, and some of the old topers who went out at first took to " pain killer " from the apothecaries. (Laughter.) Undoubtedly, the entire sobriety of the country and the good conduct of the population are some- thing very marked. (Hear, hear.) Another thing very marked is the enthusiasm of the people in regard to the country. One 27 would think that everybody is a paid agent to puff it. All of them seemed pleased with their prospects, and all of them were interested that others should think well of the land of their adoption. Another curious thing observable in going West is the gradation from Winnipeg — now a city of 30,000 people, with all the appliances of advanced civilisation — to the towns growing up at various distances west, the newest consisting of a few houses made of only a few boards, built on the prair e sod, and of tents (iguring as hotels. At Medicine Hat, one of those new places, I found two photographers, three or four billiard rooms, and largo shops where nearly everything you could desire was to be had. Some of these towns have newspapers, as well conducted as if they were places of long standing. No doubt the settler will tind a cold climate in winter, but the statement must be taken with a good deal of quali- fication ; for although the winter is a time when farm work cannot be carried on in the open air, yet a great deal of work can bo done. A multitude of things can be done in the way of building, &c., which you would not think of in this country, where the tempera- ture is very much higher ; and although the stoppage of work is somewhat against the poorer population, the wages in summer necessarily come up to meet this. Cold is, after all, only a relative term. My experience o^. the South of Europe is that the cold is as much felt as in Manitoba, where they make provision for it and do not experience any serious consequences. One other matter. Tlie country has treasures under the surface, as well as upon the surface. It is not to be an agricultural country merely, although such will be the case for a long time ; and anyone who has travelled through the great farming districts of Minnesota and Dakota, and the more settled parts of Manitoba, will have an idea of their exuberant fertility and vast productiveness, such as you will liardly realise in any part of Europe. There are three classes of soil in Manitoba and the Western Territories of Canada. There is the great plain of the Red River, a vast country of extreme fertility of soil and of the best climate in the region, both in regard to the length of summer and the temperature of winter. There is the second prairie level, even more extensive, in which the city of Regina stands. This is a valuable wheat country, and is taking a position in the estimation of settlers as equal to the Red River. Then there is the third prairie level, west of Moose Jaw, which many people said would never become a farming country, but be useful only for grazing. It was thought to be too elevated and too dry. I am very glad to sec the railway company has established experi- mental farms in this district, and I have no doubt they will turn out good crops, because the soil is exceedingly fertile, and the amount of rain-fall will increase as the settlement advances. With reference to the wealth under the soil, Mr. Bcgg has mentioned the gold mines of the country between Lake Superior and Red River, and I have seen very fine specimens of gold from these mines. But the lignite and coal of the western prairie are still 28 more valuable, especially in a country where the winter is lorg and wood is Ecarce, These ccals occur in several valuable beds, stretch over a great area, and are in many cases so very accessible that they will afford not only good but cheap fuel, and with the iron ores which occur in tlie fame localities must ultimately afford the ba^is of manufacturing industries. It must also be borne in mind that the province of Biitish Columbia, west of the Rocky Mountains, is a country rich in gold, silver, and iron, and with large deposits of coal, which have especial importance as beinf< the only coal fields on the Pacific coast of North America, and must ultimately give British Columbia a position on the Pacific similar to ihat which England has on the Atlantic. Then the farmer of the prairie lands will not only have access to the mar- kets cf EasTcrn Canada and of Europe, but to those of the mining districts of British Columbia and of the .chores of the Pacific. The CiiAiEMAN : I have now to call upon one who addressed us with admirable eloquence, and who excited our deep interest, last year. I 1 ad the pleasure of knowinghim many years ago, when he was acting as chaplain to the regiment I i hen commanded, and I very much des-ired to keep him one of Her Majesty's chaplains, but had I Veen able to do so I should have deprived the Church of a good bishop and one who has dene his work thoroughly and well. (Applause.) The Bishop of Saskatchewan : I shiU only say a few words in confirmation of what has been' so well stated by my old friend, Mr. Begg. Eis lecture has brought back a crowd cf memories to my mind — some old, some more lecent. Within the last seven or eight months I have travellcel over the whole of the Canadian Pacific liailroad, from Winnipeg to Calgary — within the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. What a grand work that railway is ! What a great tribute to the determinatie.n of character and energy of our people I What a contrast between that rapid and easy journey by rail end another which I made abcut twelve years ago. I crossed the Assiniboine river near the present railway crossing. Then I was travelling slowly through the country with a waggon and Red River carts. We reached the river. There was no boat, no raft, no ford. Our guide was equal to the occasion. Off went the wheels of the carts : they were then lashed two and two together; this rough framework was covered with a Luge sheet of buffalo hide> and thus a circular boat was made; one of the men swam across the river with a rope, and then the extemporised boat was drawn from bank to bank loaded with goods and passengers. Let me speak for a moment of another contrast. Mr. Begg has told you of our early efforts at church building in Winnipeg. In August last I was present at the laying of the foundation of a magnificent church there — Holy Trinity — the successor of the little Holy Trinity chapel built sixteen years ago. I addressed the people as I stood on the corner stone. I reminded them that the little chapel was blown down en the very day on which it was finished. It was ?9 re-built with the broken timbers, but, though we had to some extent a shapely chapel, the building was not watertight, and during the week the dry powdery snow collected under the roof, Ijing in ambush over the ceiling until Sunday. And then, when the church was warmed, it began to melt and came dripping down both upon preacher and people. There was no pulpit in those days — the sermon was delivered from the steps of the little chancel. I acquired a considerable amount of dexterity in avoiding the falling drops by keeping, so to speak, one eye on the audience and the other on the ceiling. (Laughter.) While I was telling this to the Winnipeg people a sudden thought struck me, and I added, " Oh, ladies and gentlemen, uncomfortable as the dripping water undoubtedly was, it jet saved me from com- mitting one of the mo.st unpardonable ofl'cnces of which a clergy- man can be guilty. 1 do as^pure you that whatever my other faults may have Veen, I couJd not even once be charged during that entire winter withthefaultof preaching a'dry'sermcn." (Laughter.) Let me now say a few words about the Indians; During the long journey through the Saskatchewan and Alberta territories which I made la.st autumn, I saw many proofs of their wonderful improvement under the fostering care of the Canadian Government. Plight under the shadow of the Rocky Mountains I visited a large reservation of the Piegans— a tribe of the Tilackfeet. The tirst Irdian I visited was undoubtedly a more than usually favourable specimen of his tribe. He had made great progress, but many others were advancing in the same direction. I saw him reaping a field of barley. The mis^siotary told me that the man had with his own hand ploughed the ground and sowed the seed over eleven acres — including barley, oats, and potatoes; and that he had raised more than enough for his own family, and could sell a portion of his crop to the white settlers. We went into his log hut. I was astonished at what I saw. There were some chairs and bedsteads, a cooking-stove, a cupboard with dishes, an oil lamp, two small tables, while the walls were covered with pictures cut from illustrated newspapers. His wife was grinding cofl'ee in an excellent coffee-mill ; while his daughter was employed mending a moccasin or Indian shoe. What a change was here I This Indian, but a few short year» ago, was a wild lawless savage, and now he was living a life of industry and order. I could not help feeling thankful for the success of the efforts of the Government in behalf of these poor people, and I look forward very hopefully to the time when the whole Indian population shall be rescued from the darkness of their barbarism, and take their place side by side with the white men, as good and useful citizens of this great Empire. (Applause.) I most heartily endorse what Mr, Begg has said in reference to the dealings of the Hudson's Bay Company in bycone times with the Indians of the North-West. I believe, from long and widely ex- tended observation, that it is mainly to the Hudson's Bay Company's 80 I' i' ^ise dealings with the Indians that wa owe the blessings of peace and tranquility in our great North-West. It is a heritage handed over by the Hudson's Bay Company to the Canadian Government which we cannot be too thankful for. (Applause.) The great success of the company in dealing with the Indians was chiefly, I think, owing to the ability and judgment displayed by their chief factors and chief traders. One of the first things that struck me on my arrival in the North-West eighteen years ago was the intelligence and information possessed by thests gentlemen, though they were living in a country so entirely isolated. They were foremost in fostering the educational efforts of those early days. I rejoice to be able to say that the son of one of these oflBcers, after obtaining all the trainlBg that the North-West could then give, went to the University of Cambridge, where he graduated in honours some years ago, and after holding some important educational positions in England, is now about to return to the North-West as the head of a college already established on the banks of the Saskatchewan. (Applause.) I need not tell you how thoroughly I agree in the opinion expressed by Mr. Begg on the wonderful fertility of our great North-West. One great point must never be lost sight of. It is, that the acquisition of the fertile lands of Manitoba and the Saskatchewan Valley is destined to be of vast benefit to the Imperial interests of England. Just weigh for a moment the following significant fact : — During the last thirty years no fewer than five millions of people have left the shores of Great Britain. Of these, three millions three hundied thousand have gone to the United States of America. No doubt they have all, or nearly all, become citizens of the Republic. Now I have no jealousy what- ever of the American Republic. (Applause.) A Britain, a member of this great English Empire, I feel that I need not be jealous of any country on the face of the globe — but I feel also that it is of vast importance to the interests of this British Empire that we should not lose the allegiance of the subjects of the Queen. (Applause.) Every emigrant who finds his way from England to the United States carries with him a certain commercial value, to the advantage of that country, and to the detrimeat of old England ; and I cannot help expressing my profound astonishment when I think that this all-important fact is so little recognised, even among the educated and highly intelligent classes of England. (Applause.) Let me remind you that the roan who goes to the United States will find it necessary, if he is to promote his own interests there, to become a citizen of that country. Now what does this citizenship involve? First, the man must swear that he will be faithful to the United States (we do not object to that) ; and secondly (and I ask every patriotic Englishman to weigh well the words), he solemnly swears by Ai^ighty God that he renounces for ever his allegiance to the Queen of England. Is not that a serious matter for our consideration ? (Great applause.) And will you not heartily concur with me when I gay that the 31 Royal Colonial Institute, by the care with which it seeks to foster the spirit of mutual attachment between England and her colonies, stretching as they do through ull the habitable parts of the globe, deserves the approbation and hearty thanks of every true British subject ? (Groat applause.) The Hon, Donald A. Smith : After what you have heard from Mr. Begg and the different speakers who have followed him, I am sure you will feel that anything from me can be of very little interest indeed. I feel it so myself. But I must say we are greatly indebted to Mr. Begg for his excellent, interesting, and in- structive Paper. (Hear, hear.) Knowing Mr. Begg, as I have done for many years, I felt sure, on learning that he was to read the Paper, tiiat he would do his work heartily and well. It gives me much pleasure also to hear my old and much respected friend Governor Archibald. I knew him in the first years of the organisa- tion of Manitoba and the. North- West in connection with Canada, and I know how well and admirably he administered the affairs of both. (Hear, hear.) Without disparaging any Lieutenant- Governor who has followed him, I may say we perhaps never have had one who did so well — no one, in fact, could have done better under the circumstances — the exceptional and difBcult circum- stances — with which he had to contend. (Applause.) He came immediately after the insurrection, when things were very un- settled, and when he left he had done a great deal to develop and consolidate the North- West. Just a word by way of correction. In speaking of the first efforts to reach the country Mr. Begg men- tioned Mr. Hill, Mr. Stephen, and others, but did not at the time think of another gentleman who did a very great deal to open the country — I mean Mr. Norman William Kittson, the gentleman who first introduced steam navigation on the Red River, and not Mr. Hill, who followed and also did good work in the same direction. Before Governor Archibald there was a little episode in the history of the country perhaps worth relating. At Portage la Prairie, a very excellent man, Mr, Spence, not satisfied with the Government of Assiniboia, formed a government of his own, and got an attorney- general and a councillor. But there was high treason. The councillor rebelled, and it is said they held a council on him, and condemned him. (Laughter.) But he was a sturdy man, and being stronger than the others put together, routed them ; and such was the collapse of that other government. (Laughter.) It has been mentioned that we have prohibition in the North- West — a law pre- venting the introduction of spirituous liquors. It is not generally known that to the Hudson's Bay Company is owing the introduc- tion of the law. At the last meeting of the company as a govern- ment, in June, 1870 — I happened myself to preside at the council — • a resolution was passed prohibiting the introduction of spirituous liquors into the country. Immediately on the formation of Mani- toba my friend Mr. Archibald appointed councillors for the North* West, and at their first council this law was confirmed. That is 32 the origin of the Prohibition Law of the North- West. I may say, as I have said on other occasions, that perhaps in ro other country is such a law less needed tlian in the Nortii-VVest. There, nature herself has in a great measure prohibited the use of strong drinks. The climate gives a tone — there is a tonic in the air equal to the very best champagne. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) You feel very little desire for indulging in champagne, or even in Scotch whiskey. It is really felt by those who have taken a little occasionally, in England and in the Eastern Provinces of Canada, that when they go to the North-West they have not the same desire for it. You have heard about the crops of the country. Let roe give you an example of what may be expected in the North-Weist. Some fourteen years ago, in the whole of the neighbouring State of Minnesota and the adjoining territory — not yet a State — of Dakota, lying between Manitobi and 100 miles north of St. Paul's, there was not a single bushel of wheat grown. Last year, besides a large quantity of Indian corn and a very large number of cattle, that country had a surplus of no less tlian 25 million bushels of wheat. (Hear, hear.) That is in a country which is certainly not superior, and which I believe is not equal, to the North-West. The climate is even better than that of Minnesota, the soil richer and more lasting in charac- ter. The question of education has been s^Joken of, and it must be satisfactory to intending settlers to know that the school system is such that immediately settlements are formed they are provided with good schools ; and, further, I may mention that the University of Manitoba is open to all denominations of Christians. Associated with that institution you have the Church of England, Roman Catholics, Presbyterians, and others joining hand-in-hand to edu- cate the people, and in their efforts to make the country more and more worthy of the L ominion of which it happily forms a part, and of this Old Englard of which none are more proud, and none love more fondly, than we Canadians. (Applause.) Mr. Sandpord Fleming, C.M.G. : At this late hour I will not detain you with any remarks, but merely say with what pleasure I have listened to Mr. Begg's able and instructive Paper, and the interesting discussion that has followed. Mr. J. G. COLMER : I also will not detain the meeting at this hour, after the many interesting speeches we have had, but I am very glad to have the opportunity of congratulating Mr. Begg- publicly on his able and instructive Paper; 1 am sure I am ex- pressing a general feeling when I say that we have spent a most pleasant hour in listening to his remarks. (Hear, hear,) It is not given to everyone to be able to speak from 17 years' experience of the great North-West — a circumstance which has added con- siderably to the value of the Paper, and you will agree with me that Mr. Begg has served up the dish in a bright and attractive way. We ought to be very grateful to those United States mosqui- toes that they did not altogether demolish him on his first eventful journey to Fort Garry. (Laughter.) There are, I notice, some 33 gentlemen present belonging to the British Associati'^n, who will probably visit Canada shortly. I would like therefore to add that Manitoba is not the whole of Canada. It is undoubtedly a bright jewel, and will become still more brilliant, but there are otiier provinces which have attained a position that Manitoba does not yet occupy. It is but one of the cluster of gems which together form that Dominion of Canada we are so proud of. (Hear, hear.) Mr. E. Hepple Hall : At this late hour I should probably best consult the feelings of this audience by moving that the dis- cussion on a Paper of this importance be adjourned to anotlier evening. 1 can scarcely hope to keep the meeting together during the ten minutes allotted to me, and I would very much wi.>-h to offer one or two practical suggestions upon the land scheme of the Canadian Pacific Road, which I would hope Mr. Legg would think worthy of consideration. The Chairman : As far as I myself am concerned, I can scarcely say that the proposal meets with my approval. I think we have nearly exhausted a very interesting subject— (hear, hear) — and there is still a little time left. If, however, there is any desire that the meeting should be adjourned I will put the question to the vote. My experience of adjourned meetings is that the tirst freshness of the discussion is not afterwards maintained. (Hear, hear.) The audience having signified their desire that the discussion should proceed, Mr. Hall continued : I would like to ask Mr. Begg, in the in- terest of the emigrants who have been proceeding to Canada in such numbers — when the railway is completed we may hope the numbers will be doubled — whether the locking up of the public land in the hands of so-called public companies is not a positive detriment to the emigrant who goes out ostensibly and in reality to get land ? We all know that the production of wheat in Mani- toba is something prodigious. When I went up there I heard a great deal about 40 and 50 bushels to the acre, and I thought among so much wheat there must be a considerable amount of chaff. (Laughter.) I found, however, that these enormous crops were grown. Tliere are two burning questions connected with the Canadian emigration. One is the Pacific Iload, in which all present must feel an interest ; the other is with regard to the locking-up of the land in the hands of so-called public companies ; who, to the manifest detriment of the emigrants, persist in asking higher prices than either the Dominion Government, the Canadian Pacific Road, or the Hudson's Bay Company. This I look upon as a considerable obstacle. Another obstacle is the lack of transportation. Are we not, in giving over such magnificent lands to the Canadian Pacific Road, parting with the fee simple of the public domain to a corporation which under its present charter is not bound to give the intending settler, or the actual settler, those facilities for the 84 transportation of his wheat crop to the seaboard of Europe whioh they ought to be bound to give ? We are parting with a privilcgo wliich is immensely important and immensely valuable. I am not proposing to assert on my own authority that the Canadian Pacific Hoad propose to create a monopoly. 1 am far from asserting that. But I say there should be in the future conduct of the road a greater degree of liberality towards the settler upon the wheat lands of Manitoba in regard to the facilities of shipment than they have hitherto shown. I have only this evening seen that in the Dominion Parliament it is proposed that an outlet to the ocean should bo gained by the purchase of the North Shore Railway from the Grand Trunk. That is only another evidence that nothing but a trans-continental highway will satisfy the Canadian Pacific lioad, and 1 hope that in the future the legislation of the Dominion Government may be of such a character as to circumscribe to some extent the vast operations of the Canadian Pacific lioad. Mr. Alexander Bego : I will say but a few words in reply to the points on which Mr. Hall has touched. It seems he has not had the latest information from Canada. According to the latest news, the Canadian Pacific Railway intend to carry wheat from the North-West to Montreal at a rate of from 25 to 28 cents a bushel, which, considering the distance, is very much below the rate of any other road on the North American continent. (Hear, hear.) I might make an estimate showing how the farmers can send their wheat to the seaboard at a profit. It must be borne in mind, in making this estimate, that the prices of wheat during the past year have been exceptionally low. T. be within the mark, we may take the value of a bushel at Montreal — the shipping port to this side — at one dollar, or say four shillings. Q'he freight charged from Winnipeg to Manitoba would be 28 cents, including storage and other charges. Thus, the farmer in the North- West receives 70 cents per bushel for wheat at Montreal. At 30 bushels to the acre, the return to the farmer would thus be, for an acre of wheat, 21 dollars. The cost of the raising of wheat in the North- West is agreed to be 7 dollars per acre, so that there would ,je a net profit of 14 dollars per acre, or 21. l%s. id. (Hear, hear.) It is only this year that such facilities for transport have been offered. I may add that the completion of the line over the north shore of Lake Superior will give an alternative outlet, with increased benefit to the farmers. (Hear, hear.) The Chairman : When, a few hours ago, the honorary secretary did me the honour of askiug me to take the chair, I felt very much inclined to say with the poet — And must the lyre, so long divine. Degenerate into hands like mine ? My only qualification is, as I dare say Mr. Young knew, that I am an ardent lover of Canada. I spent ten years in command of a regiment in that good country, and the recollection of the loyalty and hearty goodwill of tho people still lives aglow within me. With all my heart I wish them prosperity, and am thankful to come hero from time to time and hear such able Papers throw open the subject of that country to those who inhabit this Hmaller one. The more we bind ourselves to that groat land, and to the other dependencies of Great Britain, the happier and the better it will bo for us and for them. (Hear, hear.) 1 am thankful to the Bishop for his kind tribute to tho lloyal Colonial Institute and tho good work that Institute is doing. In tho name of tho Institute— and I think I have your suffrages I beg to tender our hearty thanks to Mr. Begg for his able and admirable Paper. (Applause.) Mr. FuEDEBiciv Young : lieforo we separate I would detain you one moment whilst I propose that our hearty thanks be given to our excellent chairman for the kind manner in which he respondcci at a moment's notice to my application to take the chair in the absence of His Grace tho Duke of Manchester. You liave all wit- nessed the mode in which ho has discharged tho duties of the chair, and I beg in your nams to thank him very heartily for hia kindness. (Applause.) S'pottiswQodc & Co.. Printers, AeW'itreet Square, London.