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Les diagrammes suivants illustrent la m^thode. rata alure, 3 ax 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 FACTS AND FIGURES. Mass Meeting Addressed by the Premier at New Westminster— Equal Justice by tlie Administration to all Sections of the Province Alilte Clearly Proved-==>Parliament Buildings and Redistribution Policy of the Government Triumphantly Vindicated. ()a the evening of Tuesday, May 10, the Hon. Theo. Davie, in response to a numcr- misly signed requisition, presented to him a few days previously, delivered an aiidrtss in Herring's Opera House, New Westnun ster, to a packed audienee, there being pres- ent in tlie hddy of the hall \ve)l known men from various scetior s of tlie district. Kx-Mayor W. B. Towiisend occupied the chair, and si ated upon the platform were Messrs. J. ('. Brown, JanieaPunoli and C. B. Sword, members of the Legii-hiturc, Mayor Curtis, and Aid. Hoy, Ovens and Sinclair. The chairman brittly stated the objec' for .^which the meeting was eullid, observing ''that he hoped the Premier would receivo a fair hearing. He felt assured that he would, so that it could not be said that the leader of the Government had come to New West- minster and had been denied a hearing. He hoDed they would be true to their tradi- tions. To show to a Mainland audience that the Government had done what was et\tircly right was a heavy task. If the Premier huc- ceeded in doing so, so nnich the better rran was he. The Premier's Speech, On coming forward Mr. Davie was re- ceived with applause. He said: Mr, (Jh&irman, Lulies and Gentlemen: It af- fords me much pleasure to meet you this evening for the disanssion of political mat- tors. 1 have been informed by some, that 80 strong was the feeling in this district against the Government that it would be useless for myself, or any member of the Government to endeavor to addrc>8 a public meeting, and that we would be simply hooted from the stage. Now being assured that I have a reasonable explanation to give of political matters, I Hatter myself that I have gauged public opinion in tltia city, and ia this distriot, much better than my in- formants. I know perfectly well that m this distriot, as well as everywhere else, there is the British principle of fair play and everybody who has a right to demand a hfaring will be heard. I was perfectly sat.sdcd when I v as told that resolutions had been passed at Vancouver and in this I'ity, condemning the Government and call- ing upon Mr. Punch, who has supported the (Jovernineiit, to resign, that that was not the (lehberate action of those who were disposed to hear both sidles and determined to exercise their own judgmeuf; I was .satisfied that those meetings did not fairly roprcient the people and I think every man will agree with me, that f lir-min'ied uien would not pass a vote of ctinsure until the Government had been given an opportunity to be heard. I am glad of the opportunity of addressing not only tills large and repntentative gathering, but shall be, to address others in the district, »'ither here or elsewhere. I will endeavor this evening to set poli ical matters before yon in their true light — what I deem to be their true light — und I hope I will succeed in doing so. (Applause.) Much of the agitation which has culminated in getting up the petition to the tJovernor-Goneral has been the work of those who desire to, and who live in fact, by disturbing the public mind. (No, no, and applause.) I don't .say they earn their living, but I tay that is their living, these agitation.n. I am not blind to the fact that there is a feeling here of something which should be explained, a feeling of unrest, a sentiment of danger to come, which, although not fully developed, ind not yet, with some, very deep-seated, yet is of such a nature as to call for explan- ation, I should not represent the Govern- ment of this Province 're I not to be the lirst to accord with this expression of senti- ment on the part of the people. Now, as I have already said, I hope that with reason- able men I shall be able to allay any feeling of distrust and to clear up matters, without any exception. I say it is with that know- ledge, and with the courage of my convio* tions iu the matter, that I dow come before you. It ia a fact that the only paper in this city has misrepresented the Government's actions, and the facts of the case in every way,! and this I shall endeavor to prove. The Vancouver morning paper is similarly misrepresenting things. I shall speak de- liberately and lay before you Facts and Figures in such a way that they can be taken down and published. An effurt has been made to spread abroad the belief that the Government wishes to rale this country with a policy of rank m- justice. That, upon the face of it, is a pro position which must condemn itself in the mind of every reasonable peiaon. Anyone would be simply insane .to want to govern a country with a policy of injustice towards a portion of it, and if it ia shown to me that I cannot administer the affairs of this country in a way acceptable to the right- thinking men of the community, by doing justice to all sections, I do i.ut wish to hold the reins of power a single day. [Applause ] Let us take as a text the petition which is being gotten up to the Governor-General. I will give it consideration for the time being, which is mor.i than this document will get when it reaches the hands of those for whom it is iutended. The people to whom this document is addressed are bound to admit the principles of responsible government. As yuu make your bed, so must you lie You remember a few months atfo there was an agitation in Nova Scotia regarding the coal deal there, on account of what was said to be the Government giving away large properties to the United States. The Governor General was applied to ; but was there anything done? No ; they were told the Legislature was autonomous ; and that will be the answer which will be given to this petition when it reaches Ottawa. There- fore, I say — and truthfully, too — that I am about to give this document more considera- tion than it will get when it reaches the hands of those to whom it is addressc i. The petition says : " That, owing to the rapid Incrense iu the popn- latiou of certain parts of British (;o'umbia Rlnre the opening of ihe Canadian Piiolttc Railway, the LcKisltttlve Assembly of the Province has not been for many years representative of the people of the Province; that the Fnld Assembly 18 non-representative to an extent entirely sub- versive of the principle of responsible govern- ment, as the stibjoiued stateracDts from the returns of the last general election will show : Toe Mainland, with 9.025 registered voters, re- turned 17 members. The Island, with G,M5 regis- tered voters, returned 16 members, TheProvihre Is dlvldei Into 18 cnnsti'.uinnies, with a total registered vote of lujSGO. Of these voters, 12,091 are registered in seven coiistittieu iei", which elect Ifi members, and the renmiuiug 2,.st)9 voters are registered iu 11 constituencies, which ele f 17 members. At the last general election tho seven con.stiiuencies registering 12,091 voters re- turned only four members as supporters of the Government, while 11 small constituencies, hav- ing 2,W)9 voters, returueil 16 Govcritinent sup- porters: and one of the four (idvernm nt sup- porters elected by a large coiiRtifneury having resigned before the meeting of the House, his place was supplied by an opponent of the (iov- ernment. At a meeting of the House, therefoie, we had (giving each member his proportion of I the votes registered in his constituency) 19 members who were supporters of the Govern- ment, representing 4,.'j76 registered voters; 14 members who wee not supporters of the Gov- erinneut. representing 10,984 registered voters. "And the letition of the undersigned further sheweth that at various times before and since the last general election, and particularly iu the speech of His Hon r the Lieutenant-Governor at the opening of the House in January last, a measure providing for a just redistribution of representa'ion has oeen promised, the words of His Honoi's speoch being; 'The time has ar- rived when the altered conditions of the Prov- ince demand a change in the method of popular representtttion in the Legislative Assembly, and a mea un of redistribution will, therefore, be submitted to you.' That this of teu- repeated promise has not been fultllled." Now. it is said that the Government has deliberately broken faith with the commu- nity in this matter. Fortunately, what has been said by the present Government and other Governments is upon record, and can be reftrred to by anybody. In April, 1890, as many of you will remember, a deputation waited upon the Government at Victoria during the session of the House and pressed their views in the matter of redistribution. The Government of the day candidly dis- cus.sed the subject in all its bearings. I will read j ou some few extracts of what was said and what was understood to be done a*-, that meeting : Mr. T. Dunn— Is it the Intention ol the Gov- ernment, when the census Is taken, to redistrib- ute the scats then, or to wait for four years ? Hon. Mr. Robson— There is no intention to wait for four years. As to the first part of the quastioa, it will depend u on the result of the census takin?. If that does not justify any fur- ther redistribution, there will be none. I assume as a matter of almost certainty that it will jus- tifv it, but one cannot tell. H n. Mr. Davie— As soon as the census is taken we shall be iu a position to bring down legislaliou. We tlo not want to wait fonr years, assuming the rusult reud.rs a redistribution nectssiry. A member— But. this balance of power seems to keep hold, and they may say: 'No, we have the balance of power, and we are going to keep to it for four years." Hon. Mr. Robson— .Ul we claim now Is that there are no conditions known to exist to justify disturbitig the balance of power, but to wait until the census is taken. Another member— Are we to understand. If this redistribution takes place after the census, that it is to be on the lines of the whole, aud without respect to the division between tho Island Rud Mainland? Hon. Mr. Robson— 1 think there can be no doubt about that at all. A Member- It seems to mc that is the root of the whole ((uestion. Hon. Mr. Robson— If the census shows it nec- essary, then the time has come for a new depar- ture. That was the text of the Hon. Mr. Rob- sen's remarks at that time in which I fully concurred, and by that you were old that what ia known as the balance of power as between the Island and the Mainlaad would not be upheld for a moment but that there slio'ild be a general redistribution of seata between those sections of the Province, the Island and Mainland, based upon the popu- lation of those places; and that is the posi- tion we assumed in 18<.I0, it is the position assumed by the last House aud the position I assume lo-day. At that time the voters' lists I dd not been revised with any particu- larity. I may here say that in September a 8 i . ision of the voters' list will take place, and we will endeavor to see that the re- vision will be thorough. Then there were other things we might have proceeded upon, for instance, the number of school children on the Mainland and on the Island and in the different districts. Unfortunately, that gave no indication whatever. You would have found the numbers on the Island were slightly in excess of those on the Mainland and for months you would have found it to be about even — very little distinction be- tween them. The School Going Population. I saw Dr. Pope, the Superintendent of Education, and I think he showed me there was a difference of just about nine in school children. We took the registry of births, deaths and marriages for the purpose of see- ing if we could arrive at a conclusion in this matter, and that was not satisfactory; in fact, the preponderance on the Island was shown to be over and above the Mainland. I could very well understand how this may be. Upon Vancouver Island the returns could more accurately be got at, whereas on the Mainland you have not the returns so accurately. That bemg the case, I could understand why it was found that there was a greater preponderance of births, deaths and marriages than upon the Mainland. So in these matters I did not feel the test would be a just one, and it was decided to wait until the census was arrived at, and when that was received we would know ex- actly what to do. I have read you what occurred. Now, the Dominion census, or final return of the Dominion census which was issued some time last month, shows the total population of the Province to be 1)8,178 people. We had bulletins issued from time to time before that, which gave the population at that same Kgure, but it was not in the condensed form that you have it now. Now, wlien the House was opened, there seemed to bi ButEcient data to form a Redistribution bill. Our intention was to be governed principally by population, so far a-t Mainland atul Island were concerned. We found that the returns showed, on the Mainland 01,406, on the Island 37,7(37, of which 61,400 4-_' 120 were in the district of New Westmmster, including the city of Vancouver and this city and outlying districts. That made a very favorable showing for New vVestmius- ter district. While the census gave the nationalities the bulletins showed nothing whatever to indicate the race of any one, and there was no distinction between the child of a white man or of an Indian. They were simply classed as British Columbia born, and that in what you tind to bu the oa^e now. We, as I have caid, took the general returns and came to the conclusion that the return justihed the redistribution, and I think you will see that the promise was made in good faith by the Government. Most certainly if we had not intended to carrv out our pfomise we would simply have been silent, and we could have done that with some show of reason and justice. It is true that the Hon. Mr. Ro'bsoii had made this promise, but we could have said, " We are not bound by Mr. Robson's promise to bring in an act for redistribution. " That is the position we could liave taken, but having determined to bring in a redis- tribution measure, we had no hesitation in promising it. Now after the session had opened we had to go into the returns closely, because we had to draw our act, and justify ourselves to the House and country. The lirst thing that came to our attention was the Indian figures. We at once sent a teler gram to Ottawa to find out how this matter stood and I shall place in your hands to- night a paper showing the telegrams which passed between the Government of the Prov- ince and Ottawa : February 26, 1893. Ifnn. J. If. Turner to J. Lowe, Deputy Minister Af/riculture, Ottawa: Please wire total of ludiaus ou Maiulaud, B. C. Also total Indians on Van- couver Island. February 27. 1893. J. Lowe. Deputy Minister .[(jricuHure, to Hon, ■I. 11. Turner: Tota' Indiana oil Mainland, 29,460. Ou Vttucouver Island, 0,742. February 27, 1893. Hon. J U. Turner to J. Lowe, Olta^ra : Does total population of B. (!. given in Bulletin r> in- clude Indians'.' February 28, 1893. J. Lour. Ottawa, to Hon. .T. II. Turner: Popula- tion in Census Bulletin rtlative B. C. includes Indians. February 28, 1893. Hon. ,1. If. Turner to ,T. Lowe, Ottawa : Please wire number of ludian i in each of the five B. C. districts. March 1, 18 3. J. Lowe to Hon J. IT. Turner: Foilowlnti subdi- visions by agencies, ludiuii population slightly in excess of tinures given. West. ('oHSt, 2,864 ; ''iiwicbiiii, 2,0lis; Kerakcweth, 1.90,'); Okaiiugaii, 878; Williiuiis l.iike, ),.so;i; Fraser River, 4,338; KaniUjops, 2,401; Kooteuay,t.9o; Northwest Coast, 4.001; Babine, 2,64r); bauds not unJer agency, 11,796. March 24, 1893. Hon. .1. H. Turner to J. Lowe, Ottawa: Your tel- esrram of the 27th Februnry gives total Indians, Mainland, 29,160: island, ii72. Bulletin gives total population B.C 98,173. Deducting Indians, this leaves whi'o poi>ulRtlon B. C 62,971. la this correct V Stnto how many whites on Island and h')w many ou Mainliiiid. Please wire reply as »oo\i as possible. March 24, 1893. J. Lowe, Ottawa, to Hon .T H.Turner: Whites on Island, 31.02cp; on Mainland. 31,916. Startling Returns- --Government's Policy Vindicated. Now, this was rather startling, and indi- cated a discrepancy somewhere or another; but exactly how to get at the matter we could no: tell. These were the official re- turns we had l^fore us. Had we attempted to bring doAii a uill liased on anything else tha" the white popu'a'ion, every man in th 'onntry would hiive condemnt.l us; bad Wb .efused to be guidtd by the census and th interpretation of the census placed upon it by those put there to interpret it, we would have been condemned, and justly too, by every person on the Island. They would have said, "You have promised us representation on the white population; there is the white population, why have you Dot done it?" We were not prcpartil to forego our'pledgcj in this matter; l)ut what could we do but do exactly as we did '! There is no great harm done in postpouiu^ this matter to the next aesaion. We shall have to then, if the census cannot be relied upon, get our returns from somewhere else, and bring forward a measure for the pur- pose without regard to the Island, and without regard to the Mainland or anything else except justice to the people, (Chee-s.) I wish to quote a further telegram since the House rose, by which you will see how thoroughly in good faith the Government is in this matter. As I said, we were satis- fied that there was some mistake in these returns, while at the same time we had Mr. Lowe's statement that they were cor- rect, and which we were not in a position to prove was wrong. I have l)een tolil, and it may be an explanation of the matter, that Mr Lome's figures, which ho gives, are arrived at by deducting certain In- dians which he ought not to deduct; thiit he had deducted some 11,000 Iiidi.tiis us whites that are really Indians; and th:i" there ought to be added 11,000 to the popu- lation of the Mainland of Hritish C'oluniliia This may.be the result; l)ut allow mu to tell you that vvhen the truth comes out, you will have, and this country will hvve, tlie benefit of it; because I tell you that redis- tribution as between Maiidand and Island will be chietly according to p ipala'ion. (Cheers,) We have been blamed because we did not immediately jump to an explana- tion which Mr, Ikown gave in tlie matter How could we l.ave jumped to his conjee tures without getting more accurate retuinH ? We don't want guess work ; we want facts, J [Hear, hear. J \Va want returns so tiiat v, u I cm keep our promise. The consccj'uuce is that we were bound to get accurate retu.ns. What do we find is the po.sition of our as- sailants in this matter '! You will Hi;d it in this morning's Xeii's Adverllfief umier ihe ; heading "Census Farce," Ih'j following : I AceordiuK to a (lispateli frniiv our eorfC.si>r:n 1- I eut at Ottawa, wiiieh we publishea on Sunanv, I the Finauee Miuisterof this I'rovince has titeu i compelled t) accept the census returns \'v in ; British Columbia as substantially eoneet. Now, I beg to say that Mr. Turner has ' been obliged to do nothing of the kind. Mr. | Turner has gone East, and one of his prinei- ' pal objects is to find out how tiiis een-Ui matter stands. It miy be that the et-ntm will be acknowledged to be correct as re^anls the number in the Province ta'e and all — and in that view of the matter it m ly be pKBrfectly right; but to accept the clasaitiia tion as correct is a very different matter, and that is what Mr. Turner has gonn there for — to ascertain the classitiiation; to lii.d out whether, after everything has beeu in- vestigated, Mr, Lowe still insists on adher- ing to the fiijures ; and if he Hiuh out he is wrong, to discover where the discrepancy li'js. I may tell you that the returns in this conceal the true olassilication in the IVov. ince, yet 1 am assured by the etiumer.itors thenselves that when •^^i get the returns you can find out exactly how many Indians have been included. 1 thought at one time I had found something. I came across a CI lumn where they gave the nationality both of the father and mother; and although there are s-oiiie white children whose fathers and mothers have both beeu born ia the Province, yet they are not very many, and you can judge whether tliey are wiiit&i or not; but we found out that those boru in British Columbia are simply clased as Ca nadiaus, so the uundjtr of Indian.", so far as the book is concerned, is simuly sealed, If you will take the returi.s, y i « ill be able to Hud out the truth of the matter. The Neii.'s Adrfrliner goes on to say : No one who luis ufiven i.ny Himmnt of study to the ((iiestion ever entertained the idea lor ii inoiui'iit tliHt r.eeou d do iniythinjrelso Neither, we may believe, did the K.riMiioe I'inister hini- seH' nor the remainder (if nis eollesKnes in Vie t-ria. The tupid blinder of deOuetini? ab ut 1J.01» Indiiuis iruiii lu; popul-ition of tin; Miiiii- luiid who bud never been included in the census returns had merely to t)i' exjxised to ( oinpleiely ' ups. t the liinisy pretext for deforriiif,' a incisure of redistribution. Now, if that be the correct view of thing-t who IS the liliin leriiig party? Is it the (riiverument? All we have done is to send to those parti'.'s to give us the returns, what were the Indians, what the Chinese and what were the numb'jr of the whites and he ha^ assumed to give them, aid if tiic-e is any mistake it is there, not vith u-. Now allow me io read the la Uiiii. Till') IMvir, Pinnicr: I'opulntion I!riti«!i Cdiunibia (ibs:>lntelv as fo - lows: Vane(ni\er Isbiiid — Iiulia'.s, .").:!l!.V, f^hi- iiese, ;>,l.s:'.; whire-^, :;.-<, -j, ,;i ; totil, ;>('.,7i;7. Main- Inn)— Imiians, J'.i.i.;!! ; Chiiuse, .■>,T27; wliiU'S. •-'CiOli; total, til .-tot). This is the return tlmt the Xcirs Ailrer- O'ser, the ori^'ii • f the iigitatoi'S htrj, ba.\ 8 has to he t'lk' n n correc% and tint, no smi si'i'e man ear' srpjio=e luything else The e aic fa ts I am tt IH.ej you, and what is more, I am aoii g to i;ive a copy of those docm (lilts to evcryoii') who wants them hv which you can sre f. r yonrst-lf. Have I ever pinned nij faith to that return? Have I not Slid from tlie Hrst that I believed that the retur.'-; are wrong and inaccurate? Now, I know tiia'.to every reasonable per- son in this audience I have given a satisfac- tory explanaMnn of this matter of rdi tri- 1 utieii. The (toverninent could not have done otherwi-e than it has done, and every honoriilile man should u;jh
utlying di-itricts, but there is a generil distribution ot the leijreientation made, bearing in mind the mj nii's and rights of the whole. It is not just iliat a man who hicii 1.0 has brought up his family and spent ; 11 his money, time and la,bor, should have no more to say as regarcis political matters than the tirst man you meet on the streets in a crowded city; and no just man would couttixl for such rcdistributiou as that. (Applause ) Now, havinc said what I have to say on this sub- ject, I shal' proceed to deal with the quea- tion of the . .overument buildings in Vic- toria. New Parliament Buildings. It has been sanl that I wruld not find it so easy to defend the action of the Ooveru- meiit in this conneLtion. I should not have tended is that Ihere is ..oniething radically I said anything about it. l.ut_I bd.tvo in wrong about these returns, and it is for the ; -'taking the bull by the horns in all cases purpose of setting these wroiig-* right that they have dilated the iiiattrr of redistri- bution. Theie c*n be ai early session next year and then a K-.'distriliution bdl will be brought down, baced principally, so far as Mainland and Island is concerntd, upon thi- population. They tell uathafa'. the bi-t generi-l elec- tion seven coiigtilue'if-ies, r.-jisteri: ^ 12,091 voters, returned onlj i. iii miii.!«trti as sup — (appl luse and uproai) — and if contrary to ;iiy exjjcctations I were prevented from getting a healing, every fair minded man could onlv come to the conclusion that if the Premier of the com, try in attempting to explain the policy of his Government is hooted down, the pjople do not want to luar tiie truth. 1 am perfectly indepen- dent in this matter, I came here desir- ing to not a fair hearing, and I ex- large constitiKncy having resigned before the meeting of the House, bis place was supplied by an (>pponent of the Govern ment," and so on. Cities Not to Have All the Repre- sentation, Now, this inaccurate data boiled down means this, that the cities where you find the centres of population should have almost the entire repretentii tion. If that is what these petition- ers are contending for, 1 may tell you that no such representation would be permitted in any country uudur British rule. You hive got t-j five outlying tiicts represeatation. It is a very tbiag ia tha abjtr^io t to have "one dis- uice man on works of ilevelopment," the Government lias taken power to borrow ,*(JOO,000 to meet the lirst estimate of the cost of public build- ings. This exaggerated way of putting ib ii fers there are large sums to be expended afterwards. I can only repeat the assurance that there is no such intention. The contract has to be given for the work, and wo do not expec the country to justify the expendi- ture of any sum exceeding §000,000. Pub- lic buildings were rtquired, and had to be erected somewhere; and if erected at Chilli- wack, or Vancouver, I suppose we would not have heard very much complaint. If you go into the old buildings now you will find that the roof of the Legislative Assem- bly hall is leaking. X was in there the ether day, after a rainstorm, and there waa a pool l'4ti^^o 6 of water back of the Speaker's chair from the roof. In the Attoruey-GoDeral's office the roof Iraks in several places. How could these structures be otherwise, erected, as they were, some 30 years ago, and built of wood with a brick veneer ? It has been said we might go along for years without put- ting up new buildings. " We do not want to interfere with the Capita! in any way." I know that there is no question about moving the Capital. I do not think there would ever be any agreement as to where to bring it, if changed. But it is said you could get on with these buildings for a long time. Well, of course, we could make patch-work of them and spend la ge sums of money every year in making repairs. From $5,0U0 to $10,000 a year could be expended for that purpose for years to come. A few years ago the repairs and additions amounted to $20,000, and .^.30,000 would be within the mark of what has been spent there during the last four years. At the present time there has to be a caipenter employed on these buildings constantly. No one found fault with the $75,000 expended last year for the erection of a fire-proof land registry office. Th( n it haii been said that it would be far better to spend this money in opening up roads, streets and bridges. Even if the Government could build roads and take a road to every settler's door, how much dissatisfaction would be caused by those who would not get the roads just where they wanted them? [Applause.] Spend that §000,000 how you like, you would, have just as many dissatiatied per- sons as you would have satistied ones. You would have complaints from Cariboo to Comox of favoritism by the Government. Let us coni enue derived from the Island, inclu^iive of land sales, was $585,542 01, leaving a balance over and above expenditure of $40,- 40101 to go into the general purposes of the Government. Upon the Mainland the total amount of the revenue was very much larger; it was $1,249,060.19. (Cheers.) Take from that the amount actually ex- pended on the Mainland, and you have a balance of $142,943.19 returned to the treasury for the purposes of the general government of the country. So that on the Isla^nd you have $40,401.01 returned to the treasury of the revenue of the country, over and above the appropriations; and on the Mainland, $142,943.19 to the treasury of the revenue of the country. Do these 1 flgurea show any injustice as regards the Mainland ? And a further consideratioii of the facts will show still further how justly and fairly this portion of the Province has been dealt with. If you take the Shuswap & Okanagan Railway, it tirst got a lump sum of $200,000, which was afterwards changed to a guarantee of interest equal t« $50,000 for 25 years. A similar gua rantee was passed last session in aid of the Spence s Bridge & Nicola Valley Railway, and a guarantee of interest on $800,000 or thereabouts on the Nakusp & Slocan Railway — a line calculated to open up and aid in developing the mining resources of Kootenay. To come nearer home, there was a guarantee passed of 2 per cent, upon the bonds of the Chilliwack Rail- road to the extent of §500,000. [Cheers. | It is true that the guarantees have been so arranged that the public revenue is nut likely to be seriously encroached upon ; but still the fact remains that the credit of the country has been pledged for these works. As against the 43 railways, what do you find on Vancouver Island ? The v'^ictoria & Sid- ney Railway is the only one, and there the Government tak 3S an obligation of $0,000 and the city of Victoria of §9,000. Besides the appropriations aud aids to railways, there was aid to quartz mining inOaribno of $74,509, and you have a small expenditure for a woolen mill in this place of $3,000, and $37,500 towards a bonus for the (.'. P. R. coming to New Westminster; aud you have $15,000 a year in aid of the bridge across the Fraser, which it would have been diffi cult, if not impossible, for the city itself to raise. Take a glance over these facts — facts that cannot be challenged— .d ask your- selves if the Government of the country is treating you so badly ? (A voice: No, no, ) Matters do not stop here. In the tirst place, the revenue from the Mainland is only $1,249,000. In this 1 have included the land sales, and the same upon Vancouver Island, and have shown that you have had the reve- nue raised upon the Mainland expended here in public works, educe 'ion, surveys and so on — all of it, sir, with the exception of about $149,000 ; and the same thing is true of the Island, which has liad similarly expended the revenue collected there within $40,000. Sales of Public Lands. Now the proceeds of the sale of the land of the Province does not belon? to any par- ticular portion of it, and any land sales are entitled to be distributed for the benefit of the people generally. The Mainland had no particular claim to the land revenue being expended here. What did the land (ales amount to during those three years ? They amounted to $491,310 upon the Mainland. Take that from $1,249,000 gross revenue, and what have you got as the net revenue ? You have $757,749.39. That puts the mat- ter in another shape altogether. You have then the revenue considerably less than the expenditure, the expenditure being $1,106,- 117, with a revenu-^ of $757,749, leaving $348,367 of a deficit. On Vancouver Island the revenue was $585,572.01, the laud sales being $149,659.82. Deduct then the land land sales and take the revenue from the expenditure and you have an excess of ex- penditure over revenue of $119,278 81. Expenditure in Municipalities. I would like to ask you, sir, whether any of these municipalities, Surrey, Langley, Maple Ridge, Coquitlam and the others, have not received back their contribu- tion of taxes to the general revenue ! Take one year's showing, there is a total expenditure in municipalities outside Van- couver and New Wistminstei- of $62,340 62 for roads and schools. What do you find the revenue is that has been reneived from these places ? According to a return handed me it IS the sum of $16,618.23. I think I have now shown you that this part of the country has been fairly treated by the Gov- ernmett I have shown you that the fear of injustice in the matter of redistribution has no foundation ia fact, and I am sure that every reasonable man will admit that there is no cccaeion for this ■..aration petition. I have been informed that this movement i< spreading. If it ia spreading it is nnerely among thoie «vho are not iufi rmcdin the matter. I have beeu told they have formed a Government for the country, and even have appointed the members of their cabinet. They . xpect, no doubt, to do great things, for them- selves, when the new "kingdom" comes. Here is a country that has, say 100,000 of a population. Do you suppose the proposal is going to be listened to for one moment that we should have two separate Provinces. The thing is too ridiculous, and every sen- sible man must see that those getting up these petitions arc simply making fools of themselves, aud the people who sign the petitions ridiculous. Now, having shovin the determination of the Government to deal fairly in this matter and all other mat- ters before the country, I would draw your attention to the kiid of encouragement given by the morning organ at Vancouver when it writei that no matter what the Government may do they are to have no credit for it. In the House of Assembly Mr. Brown and Mr. Cotton claimed to wish to act with the Government in bring- ing down a fair measure of redistribution. They say, let us have representation accord- ing to populatif^n. They want to cut off the country districts — pocket boroughs they call them. The two smallest of these coun- try constituencies are Alberni and the Is- lands. Yet, would you believe that both Mr. Brown and Mr. Cotton in the Legisla- tive Assembly advocated the Islands and Alberni retaining their representatives, and the same with Cariboo. A nice bait to hold out to these people. Their insincerity was shown by their professions. In some things they had been ingenuous foea. I feel I have trespassed anduly on your forbear* ance. (No, no.) Whatever opposition I might have expected to encounter, I felt thcro was a sutliuknt spirit of justiuo and fair play to f^ive iiiu thu impartial liraring which you huvu done to iiiglit, and ] iliiiik you, Mr. Chairman, ladioi and guutlumen, for the itind manner in which yon have liHtuuud to my exposition of tiie policy of the Government of wiiitli I Imxo the honor to l)e leader, (i/nid and long continued chcerB.) Mr. J. C. Brown M,l'. P., having at some length addressed tli<' niuiting, I'lio I'remior, licing called on to reply, Slid : 1 have not very much lo say. The hour is growing late, and 1 fear your patience has ;ilit.aei)t(i'i\e IfouFe, Mid tire now ailvocatiiii,' tlu? sejiHrrttiou of tlio ^^lnnif as tlie surest means of le- li 'f from tiie evils uudor which thoy n iircsent ■iiii'l'r. As ref,'ard8 the question of the proportion ill which you are to have distribution ac- cording to population here, that is tho whole (luestiou over again. \\'e must tiiid out what is the true position before we can do anything. Indians who do not pay tax<8 are not taken into consideration at all. Mr. Brown has referred to everything except the last telegram from Mr. Lowe; and, twist it and turn it as he may, there is tho absolute statement of Mr. Lowe, tho Deputy Minister, as short a time ago as the 18th ot" April. He i.y asked how the matter actu- ally stands in view of all the circumstances, and he says the British Columbia figures are as follows : Vancouver Islttud—Iudiaus f),S'J.j Ctifufcse 3,1«< Whites 28,2o'J Total 36,767 Maiulauil- • Indians 'J'.l.filM CliiiH'se i'),727 Whites •.Je,045 Total <5f,406 That is what he says ; that ia what the Dominion (rovernme-it says as regards this. We asked them for ti: j correct figures, and they give us these. VV^e think thore is some- thing wrong, and a^e desirous t > have it put right for the satisfaction of the people, so that we may have a correct basis on which to form our Redistribution Bill. As regards the Government, so long as it is in power, it will endeavor to do justice to the whole country. The Government has every intention of carrying out its whole duty to the Province according to the promises given, and will do what is fair and square in 1 the matter. [Loud cheers.]