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Bouse of CDmmons 30 abates 
 
 FOURTH SESSION -SIXTH. PARLIAMENT. 
 
 SPEECHES OF HON. EDWARD BLAKE, M.P., 
 
 ON THE 
 
 SEAMEN'S ACT. 
 
 FRIDAY, MAY. 2nd, 1890. 
 
 Mr. HLAKh. I (jmte agree with the observa- 
 tion.-) of my hon. friend. A number of years ago, 
 1 tinnk HI 1881', this ehiss of persons was'.subjected 
 to extremely stringent legislation at tiie hamls of 
 tins Parliament : an.l the legislation Mas framed 
 with special reference to a difficulty which evi.steil 
 in the port of Quebec. It was then pro\ idcd that a 
 stipendiary magistrate might convict without ap- 
 peal, and without any method being given for recon- 
 sideration, in cases in which penalties of from two 
 to hve years imprisonment i:> penitentiary could be 
 inUicte.l. Upon that occasion I was unsiiceessful 
 in enoeavoring co secure a trial l,v jury to persons 
 wlio were .subjected to so grave a iienalty. It was 
 npon the l.ith of .May, 188-2, that the Hill to anu^nd 
 the .teamen s Act of 187:5 was moved by the riah't 
 hoii. the tirst Minister, seconded by .Sir Leonard 
 niley ; and up(m the second rea,ling L move<l 
 seconded by tlie hon. member for Dothwell to 
 recommit the Dill to the Committee of the Whole 
 House With instructions to alI^end the same, so as 
 to nrovnle for a hial by jury of any person liable 
 to be sentenced, under the said Rill, to from two 
 U) hve years" imprisonment in the penitentiary 
 My motion wi..j <lefeated upon that occasion, as 
 I presume, any like elFort wi'l be uixrn this, the 
 ground given for the exceptional rigor of the pro- 
 cedure, which .leprives the jiarties accused 
 ol those securities that exist in onlinary 
 cases, being the transitory nature of the occu 
 paticm of the jjarties who would be the principal 
 witnesses, and the fact that the offence having 
 generally to be proved by captains an.l crews of 
 ships, an appeal would mean a defeat of justice I 
 cannot reconcite to myself the view that the cir- 
 cumstance that there is a ditficulty in prosecuting 
 an appeal successfully, should leave the irnrty accus 
 ed without some protection against the possible in- 
 justice of the primary and .sole tribunal analogous to 
 tliat which ex.sts in other cases. It may m.uire 
 some special legislation a.s to expedition of the trial 
 some special legislation a.- to the facility of taking 
 aiKl recording evidence ; l,ut I liold that that pro 
 tection which the subject at large has against inius- 
 
 tice inflicted by primary magistrates, should, in some 
 
 s lape or other, 1,e given to the class of subjects 
 
 , treated m this J}ill as well as to Ihe others • and t 
 
 i maintain that the simple alleviation which the 
 
 ! Mini.ster rightly proposes in th; I5ill, and which 
 
 restores to the subject in thiscasv ■ , c right to a.YWio- 
 
 mn IS but an imperfect an.l inatlcpiatc alleviati.m ; 
 
 liat while other cla.sses of subjects, convicted 
 
 l.ef.)ie magistrates, of the .same class .,f offences of 
 
 the same description and gravity, to |)unishment 
 
 ot the same kind, have other means of re.lress we 
 
 ought not * - limit this particular class to the inade- 
 
 , (inatc, partial, incomplete, and oftentimes wholly 
 
 I abortive reineily of a nrfiorari. 
 
 I 
 
 Monday, oth May. 
 Mr. BLAKE. I wish to say a word with refer- 
 ence to this proposeil amen.lment in renewal of the 
 discussion which took place the other .lay. As I 
 understand the Act which the present Hill is pro- 
 pose.l to ainen.l. it has reference only to the inland 
 waters and ,i. s not apply to ocean voya,ges ; at 
 any rate it .l..es apply to the inlan.l wat'er.s'. The 
 I great hulk of vessels .Migage.l on inlan.l voyages 
 , are engage-l on a regular course, in sailing from point 
 ^ to p.nnt, and ti,e extreme voyage is, 1 think, two 
 i or three week.s ni length, from Lake Superior " 
 ,downwar.l to the port of Kingston, and return. 
 I here is, therefore, with reference to the bulk of 
 the cases, an opportunity of reaching' once again ii 
 p<iint at which the difficulty ari.ses within a very 
 sh(,rt time, an.l if I am rightly informed, the 
 : hulk of cases «hich come under the provisions of 
 this Act arise m the Wellan.l Canal, about niid- 
 , way in the voyage. I make this statement be- 
 cause It seems to me to be not unimportant to con- 
 s..ler whether there is, in any point of view, an 
 ; ahsolute necessity for wliat I must call a denial of 
 justice. I think there is in no ca-se such an abso- 
 , lute necessity as that you should wholly deny 
 I justice, but I say that here the inconvenience which 
 
 :s suggested as a cause for the denial of justice is 
 a minor degree of inconyenience altogether, and 
 
 'il 
 
li 
 
 that, by the iul(>])tifni of the ii|,'lit of iii)i)>;iil with 
 icftTeiice to tho iiilaiid voyiii'c, possihly witli soini; 
 furtlitT prffaiilioiiH, |)()s.iili!y with Hfinie pit- j 
 cantioiia as to tlie faci'.itins for taking ami i<:coriling , 
 evicleiu'c for iisu on the ap]R'al, ami with soniej 
 ofther provisioiia sniuihle to the case, We eojiUll 
 overcome any of thosti difficnltit'S ami pi'fvcnt tho 
 risk of gross injiislicf lusnltin''. We have foiiml ' 
 it nefexsary to tistahlish appeals from uonits cojn- . 
 posed of judges of great, I'Xpurienee. of great' 
 dignity, of nineli learning, who iliseharge titeir 
 business in the light of day, with the assistance 
 of trained advocates, and with all the advantages, 
 and also with :ill the eheik.s and preeailtions, which 
 tiic ordinary course of a pnblic court piovides. 
 How much more ini])ortant it is that we should, 
 with respect to magistrates siich as those who are 
 called upon to d(ial with the cases, give some 
 bt^ttei- opportunity than a n rliornri y^ivnit -we all 
 know hi>w very poor and narrow that remedy is — 
 against the injustice which such a magistrate may 
 coimnit. A case wliich has been laid before nic, 
 and, I think, it is a case wiiich has been kid 1 
 l)efore the Minister of Justice also, I bring before ; 
 the notice of the House as the kind of thing 
 winch may haj)pen, l)ecause it is a kind of. thing 
 which has hai)i)ened under the hnv , and is not 
 reinedie<l under the law as it will be altered by 
 this Hill. At a certain lime the person of wlioni I 
 am sjieaking was sunnnoned to ii])pear Ijefore the 
 police magistrate at Port Colliorne, chaiged with 
 the offence of persuading, or trying to persuade, the 
 crew of a schooner to leave or ijuit their work. 
 He appeareil, and asked that the case nnght be 
 adjoin lied till the next day iu onler to secure the 
 services of a huvyer ; but t' -^ was refused, and the 
 magistrate declared that the ca.se must proceed at 
 once. Th'.' captain, « ho swore out the warrant, 
 could give no direct evidence that he had seen the 
 person eithei- on licard the vessel or talking to the 
 men. The men were necessarily sent for, and 
 when they were .siiinmoned. tliey were asked 
 whether they were under ,,rticles, ami they 
 proved that they were not under articles, in 
 which case tlu; Act lia<l really no aiipli<ation 
 whatever. Tne individual chai-ged then de- 
 manded to be aci|uitted, Init the magistrate 
 <letermiiicd that he must l)e convicted, and he sen- 
 tencett him to gaol for one month at hard labor. 
 He said to the magistrate that he would appeal, 
 biit the magistrate told iiim there was no 
 appeal for liini. He telegraphed for *,he assistance 
 of a lawyer, and the hiwyer came down the next 
 day. He saw him. The hiwyei' told him there was 
 no"a|)peal under the law. An elfort was nia<le to get 
 a copy of the evidence, but there was great dilti- 
 oulty in procuring it, and a threat had to be made 
 to proceed against the magistrate before even a 
 cojiy of the evidence could be ))rocured and sent 
 to tile r.aw Clerk at Wellaud, and then it was made 
 clear that there was no appeal or redress. That is 
 tlie state of iliings, I am informed, which has 
 .hai)))ened under tlie Act, and tliat state of things 
 may hapjien under the Act notwithstanding this 
 ainenduient. It seems to be a blot upon the aibnili 
 istralion of justice that such a condition of things 
 shoidd continue, and, so thinking, I propose to vote 
 for the aiiKMi liueiit, in the hope that, with certain 
 precautions, it may be effectual. 
 
 .Sir JOHN THOMPSON. I should like to ask 
 if the hon. member is sure that thfc Act only 
 
 applies to inland waters? I was so informed, but 
 that is a mistake. 
 
 Mr. BL.AKK. The law to which I referred was 
 eontined to the waters about (Quebec, and it was 
 so stated at the criiuniengement ot.tlie statute. 
 
 Sir dOHX THOMPSOX. Ilia an Act relating 
 to the shiiiping of seiinen. 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. I was told tliat there was a 
 statute that did so confine it. 
 
 .Sir.IOILN THOMPSO!'. I, also, was so in- 
 formed, Imt I was infoi'med incorrectly. 
 
 Mr. lUi.VKK. There is a statute which con- 
 tains thesis provisions. 
 
 .Sir JOHN THOMPSON. Not that which con- 
 tains the provisions we are ametiding This is an 
 Act in reganl to the shipping of .seamen, and it' 
 refers to sea-going shijis as well. 
 
 Mr. BLAKK. If that be so, all the obser\ations 
 I made as to the inland voyage would apply to 
 this ))roposed amendment, and the eliange tnight 
 be left to the inland voyage, the outgoing voyage 
 being left as it is. 
 
 BILLS OF KXCHAXCE AND PROMLSSORY 
 No'i'KS. 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. I would not object to a provision 
 that if we limit the time to a very short time after 
 thediawingof the cheijue within which to ascertain 
 whether it was a forgery, a notice should be given 
 to the bank. 
 
 Ml*. BLAKE. 1 move " tliat the amendment be 
 further amended by leaving out all the words after 
 "one" down to "payment"' and inserting the 
 words, "a month after he has acijuired notice of 
 such forgery." 
 
 Sir .lOHX THOMPSON. Before the question 
 is taken I wouh) like to say that, for my part, I 
 would be quite willing to adopt that amendment. 
 Instead of going to the trouble oi taking a vote, 
 I would like to have some ex])resaion of opinion 
 from hon. gentlemen on the matter. 
 
 Mr. WELDON {St. John). I think that amend- 
 ment seems to meet the case. 
 
 Mr. CHARLTON. I wouM iirefer to have the 
 amendment (b-ojiped out altogether, and leave the 
 law as it formerly stood. 
 
 (ieneral LAURIE. I should prefer to see the 
 clause ilropped out altogetlier. 
 
 Mr. TISDALE. So shouhl I. 
 
 Cfeueral LAUKIM The system at i»resent pre- 
 vailing has worked exceedingly well iu the )iast, 
 especially foi- tliose who live at long ilistances from 
 bank.',. Our only means of paying accounts lias 
 been by seniling cheques, and we have had to trust 
 to paities receiving them endorsing the chet|ue as 
 a receipt. I have very much to regret that any 
 other plan should be adopted. 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. 1 hope the hon. gentlenum will 
 see that the jiroposed amendment is not open to 
 this objection. The amendment is : that if you 
 have acijuired notice of the fact that the cl'.eque is 
 forged, you ought, within a month, to give notice 
 t-^ the bank. "Y<iu are not to hohl it in your 
 pocket for five years and eleven months. 
 

 Mr. TISDALE. This ainMidment insure to lead 
 to II gieat dual of trouble mid ocir'nsion as to what 
 notice is. I tiiink the safer way is to leave the 
 law us it stands at present. 
 
 Mr. WHITE (Renfrew). My opinion is, that if 
 the drawer of a ehe(jne gets notice of a forged en- 
 dorsement, lie is not likely to keej) it in his posses- 
 sion for five years and eleven months. He is more 
 than likely to give the l)ank notice just as soon as 
 it comes to his knowledge tliat the clie(jne is forged. 
 I!ut tile law as it hii.s stood heretofore .seems to 
 have worked without any con.siderable friction, 
 and, for my part, 1 would prefer leaving it as it is, 
 and .striking out the .Senate amendment altogether. 
 
 Mr. 1!0\'LE. I prefer the amendment of the 
 hon. mendjer for West Durham to the [irojwsition 
 of the hon. Minister of .Justice, l)Ut I prefer the 
 old law to citlier of them. Ikit I am in this ditti- 
 culty, that hy voting for the amendment of the 
 hon. memlier for West Durham, I would commit 
 myself to the amoiiilment of the hon. Mini iter of 
 Justice. Under these circumstances, I feel tliat 
 the only safe course for me to take will be to vote 
 against the amendment of the hoii. memliei for 
 West Dm liani and also against the jiroposition of 
 the hon. Minister of .lustice. The law has worked 
 .so well that I think no change should he made, 
 unless some 'mprovement on this amendment is 
 proposed. 
 
 Mr. BLAKPl The 'urn. gentleman will observe 
 that by voting for my amendment, which he pre- 
 fers, he may carry it ; and after carrying it, he is 
 (]uito it liberty to vote against the amendment as 
 
 amended ; whereas, if he votes against my amend- 
 ment, he may have the worse proj)osition carried, 
 instead of the better. 
 
 Mr. WKI.DON {St. .John). A elieipie payable 
 to order is really an innovation. The effect of the 
 'amendment will l)e that the bankers, to protect 
 themselves, will revert to the old system. 
 
 -Mr. DAVIK.S (I'.E'.I.) I do not see how anyone 
 can object to tiie amendment proposed by the hon. 
 mend)er for West Durham. That a num who has 
 drawn a ehecpie and receives notice that its en- 
 dorsement has been forged, should give the bank 
 notice within a mo;ith. is not an umeasonablo 
 proposition. There can l»e no possible injustice to 
 any one in such an arrangement. 
 
 Mr. fHARLTOX. With regard to the a-sser- 
 
 tion of the hon. mend)er for .St. .Iohn(Mr. Weldon), 
 
 that cluMjues are generally made payalde to 
 
 bearei, my experience has been (juite the reverse. 
 
 For my part, I never make a cheipie payable to 
 
 l)earer, in oriler to guai'd the interests of the ])er- 
 
 son who receives the cheque. The amendment 
 
 }>ro])osed by the hon. member for West Durham is 
 
 a very great improvement, which I am willing to 
 
 accept, if afterwards I shall be free to vote to 
 
 leave the law as it was before. I would ask 
 
 w''ether we can do that 1 
 
 i 
 
 Mr. BLAKE. Certainly. If my amen<lment 
 were carried, the clause as amencled would be 
 before the House, and the hon. gentleman could 
 vote yea or nay on the clause. 
 
 Amendment of Mr. Blake agreed to. 
 
 Ii|l' 
 
 O'iTAWA :— Printed by Buown Chamberi.in, Printer to the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty.