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 ^v 
 
 DEBATE 
 
 THE SENATE 
 
 THE RESOLUTIONS 
 
 nmfmnam 
 
 BRITISH COLUMBIA. 
 
 I: 
 
 REPORTED BT ■ 
 
 J. €^. BOTJIt.I]VOT, 
 
 Short-Hand Writer to the Senate, &o. 
 
 ... ♦ 
 
 — ___ ^ .. — OTTAWA: ■- . 
 
 PBINTBD BY THE TIMES PRINTING A PUBLlSUIN(J Co., 38 SPARKS STREET. 
 
 '■,■■■■■■ 1871. 
 
 
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DEBATE IN THE SENATE 
 
 Oir THE BBSOLUTIONS RESPECTING 
 
 BRITISH COLUMBIA. 
 
 — jTTiiTaiiniii 
 
 
 I 
 
 apo. Mr. CAMPBELL then rose and 
 aropoRcd the Beaolutions providing 
 l>r the admission of British Coiumbia into 
 the Union with the following speech : In 
 bringing the subjeot before thdUoiise, lam 
 quite aware tluit hon. gentlemen have not 
 only studied it, but hare bad an oppor- 
 tunity of hearing a great deal of ducus- 
 sion on the question in the House of Com- 
 mons and reading many articles in the 
 public press. Still, I think 'we may t^ 
 well consider^ before going into details, 
 the general importance of the question 
 and the magnitude of the interests inrolr- 
 ed in the passage of the resolutions. I do 
 not for one moment shut my eyes to the 
 amoimt of the undertaking which the Do- 
 mnion will necessarily have to perform. 
 But all those who took part in the original 
 Craming of ConfederaUon — all those who 
 hBT6 since giTcn their aoquieecence to the 
 project — haTe constantly had before them 
 tl^• ulterior object, they hare desired to 
 ■ee the FroTinces and Colonies constitut- 
 ing British .llmerioa united into one great 
 eountry atretohingYrom the Atlantic to the 
 Pacific. This is shown not only by the 
 debates which took place at the Confer- 
 ence at Quebec but also in a direct and 
 authoritative way by the resolutions which 
 were the result of the conference. 
 It is shown also by the language which is 
 ■sed in the British North Amer^pa Act of 
 1867 — the constitutional Act of this coun- 
 try at this tiihe. From these, facts^ it will 
 bejieen that the idea of developing her 
 Majesty's dominions on this continent by 
 the'{|inioh of all British America, has 
 been certainly kept in view. Both those 
 who advocated umon originally and those 
 who have now on account of its adoption 
 given their assent to it, have been and are 
 still of the opinion that we should stretch 
 our dominions across to the Pncific and 
 
 endeavour to form one ofnintry under one 
 Parliament, as the only wa)' of maintaining 
 on the continent those institutions and 
 that form of Government which we believe 
 to be the best calculated to promote our . 
 happiness and prosperity. It cannot, 
 then, be denied that the admission of 
 British Columbia is an essential i>art of 
 the scheme of Confederation , and without 
 it we could not look for the full de- 
 velopment of the political, material 
 and industrial advantages which are 
 expected to result from the consolidation 
 of the whole- of the British American pos- 
 sessions under One Parliament and Govern- 
 ment. I have noticed on several occasions 
 that even those who occupy a very promi- 
 nent position in another place, and have 
 taken ground against these resolutions,have 
 genenuly admitted that a railway is an 
 •saential part of the scheme, and that it 
 should be built aa soon as.the resources of 
 the ooimtry will permit. More than that, ' 
 I have not read anywhere in the publio>; 
 press, during the last three months, during 
 which the subject has been before the 
 country, the statement of the proposition, 
 that a Union with British Columbia 
 is undesirable. Therefore, we may 
 be allowed to assume that 
 there is a prevalent sentiment throughout 
 British America that the Union of all Brit- 
 ish America is desirable. Now, leaving the 
 general question — the importance of the 
 interests involved and the necessity of 
 Union as lespects the development of the 
 resources of the Confederation, I may pro- 
 ceed to consider the terms on which the. 
 Union is to be effected. The general 
 scheme involves three propositions which 
 form the chief subjects of discussion. 
 These propositions, on which grave doubts 
 appear to have arisen in the mmds Of some 
 gentlemen, refer to the representition of 
 
 
141- 
 
 British 
 
 [April 3, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 142 
 
 British Cu'umbia, the nature of the finan- 
 cial arrangements apart from the railway, 
 and the question of the railway itself. As 
 respects the first, the question of represen- 
 tation, it has been objeoked that the 
 scheme provides for a representation in 
 Parliament beyond what we now e^joy ^n 
 Canada. I suppose that almost every one, 
 whatever his views may be, will agree that 
 the rule of representation by popfiUiinn, 
 cannot be fainy applied to a new territory. 
 If we applied that rule to Manitobs, it 
 would be left without any Parliamentary 
 repreitentation ; and) therefoitt, it pust be 
 admitted that, in considering the case of a 
 sparsely settled oountfy^ we must t>roivi<fe 
 arbithirily for the representation, as was 
 done in the case of the new Province in 
 the North West. We gave to ManitolM, 
 with its popuhttion of 12,000, a representa- 
 tion of four members in the House of 
 Commons^ and of two representatives in the 
 Senate j lor we had to consider not linerely 
 tho existing state of the country, but to 
 look forwanl to the time, not fa^ distant, 
 when there would be ' a lar^e and ener- 
 getic population settled withm its borders. 
 Tliis principle was affirmed by both Houses 
 of the Paiiiunant of Canada, as well u 
 by the Oovemment and Parliament of Eng- 
 land. It was also aCDrmed with respect to 
 Newfoundland, to whom we would have 
 given a representation. in advance of their 
 population at the time ; and, therefore, it 
 was only just that we should Jjpply the 
 same rule to British Columbia. The popu- 
 lation of that ootony— supposing it to be 
 as I sta^d it the other day— ii composed 
 of some ISyOOO or 16,000 wbifes, some 1,000 
 Chinese, a«d 40,000 or 4fi,Q00 IndiAHa. • It 
 is, however, a mistake to suppose that the 
 Indian population is . always left out in' the 
 consideration of the representatibn for the 
 several Provinqes. In the oensoa which is 
 now beinf ; talp^n the Indian population 
 wiIf:beooaqtedJAevei^ ^tefthe Domin- 
 ion«iaiid will lUmly form an element in the 
 adyustment of the, representetion. In the 
 case of British Columbia, the ordinwy 
 rule respecting representation would htive 
 given her only one. repreaenUUre at the 
 most and no one oan say that woiild' 
 satisfy her people. I think, too,, we 
 should bear maund that that rejgresenta- 
 tkin of six memhon will: be.the maximum 
 until tiie next oenens. .^ - -"--^ 
 
 Hon.Mr. LBlMiUER DiJ-8T. ;JDOT— 
 Is there a mminmm 7 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAICPB^LL—That is. the fix' 
 ed number. We look forwarct. to the 
 timo— u I MO Bore all must do— when there 
 will be a large population in Brituh Colum- 
 bia, this representation will be found ten 
 years hence to have b^n based on equit- 
 able principles. I now oome to the second 
 
 proposition, and that is the money ar- 
 rangements outside of the railway. I do 
 not apprehend, so far as I have been able 
 to follow public opinion, that there has 
 been any serious objection .urged to these 
 arraogeiiente. . It is.oerfaimly ti|l>t^orthy 
 that these resolutions were published in 
 the newspapers three months ago, without 
 evoking any opposition, or shewing that 
 ttMW wtMi: framed { (xmtvirj to public 
 feeung. Honorable gentietaien, in oonsid- 
 erini^ the financial terms, must remember 
 that it is not only necessary to take into 
 account the.amount great ed, but t| 
 necessai^ to meet the neces^Uei, I 
 iah Columbia. It is projio8e4 in/tliMa 
 i^lutioms,' to take from British Coktl 
 the revenue which she now derives fropi 
 Customs, Excise, and port and harbour 
 dues, which amounted, during the hut 
 year, to |323,50P, then there is the amount 
 of postage which I put down at f 14,000: 
 also the sum which it now derived from 
 steamers, $2iS,000. Upon the caloulaUob 
 which has been placed in my hand, and 
 which I believe to be correct, the revenue 
 derived from British Columbia will be 
 1363,500. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLER DE ST. JUSl'-^l 
 see an item, page 9 of the return, in. refer- 
 ence to the steamer Douglat. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELLrS-That item re- 
 fers to the amount received for passenger 
 trafllc by a vessel called the Douglai, 
 which is now being run for mail purposes, 
 and which amount would to a certain ex- 
 tent aocrue to the Dominion. In taking 
 the Customs Duties, we must bear in mind 
 that we obtdn the most available and cer- 
 tain source of revenue to a new and 
 sparaely settled country. On the other 
 side of the account, we mid thtf interest on 
 the debt 9100,0(10 ; the subsidy in support 
 of the Government 986,000, and the amount 
 of 80 cents per heed of a population of 
 60,000— or 948,000. An attOQ^t has heett 
 made by a& hoa (Hend of mine, wiio is m 
 a position to form a good opinjOn of the 
 probable charges of Governor, Judidwy, 
 and Petisbte* ust, 'and he pute it oowa 
 at 930.000. The'expemee oomMotod With 
 the coUection of cuatoma may be estimated 
 at 915,000; mail, steam and telegimph de- 
 partment^ 963,800; light houses, 90,500} 
 militi* and geological surveys, 925,000 $ 
 hoepitiOs. 910,000. The total of these 
 ainoun'ta would give 9336,300 as the ram 
 of the various chargee agaiaiii the Domini- 
 on. My hon. fHend ficom St. John ^dh. 
 Mr. Haaen), the bther day, called atten- 
 tion to the guarantee for tbedock at Baoui- 
 menlt. The amount which we are aekea to 
 guarantee, is 9100.000, Which would be, at 
 five per cent., 925,000 for ten years. Add- 
 ing this sum to the 9336,30O,we have 9361,- 
 000. 
 
143 
 
 Briftsh 
 
 [April 8, 1871. 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 144 
 
 Hon. Mr. DFCKEY— N that strictly a 
 gutranie", for which B:iti!<h Columbia will 
 remain relitblA ? 
 
 lion. Mr. C.WIPBELL— It is strictly a 
 guirantce I hive already shown you 
 that the amount we are to derive from 
 British Columbia is f363,500, and the 
 amount we are to pny her, is $36 1,000 i-a 
 very insigniHcant diflTerence certainly. In 
 the latter amount, too, I hafe included 
 the interest on the ^ock guarantee which 
 oannot remtin Ions a liaMlity— that public 
 work mwt pay at least the interest on the 
 cost of construction, sooner or later. Now, 
 I come to that item which provides that 
 the Dbminion Goreinment agree to pay 
 British Columbia the sum of $100,000, in 
 consideration of the land alongside 
 the railway. It will be remembered 
 that, in case of Newfoundland 
 we agreed to give her $150,000 per annum 
 for land for ever. It was not believed in 
 that case, nor is it in this, that the l,md 
 would yield any revenue equal to that sum, 
 but it was valuable in many respects, and 
 it was felt necessary to assist New- 
 foundland beyond the 80 cents per head 
 of population. Looking at the statement 
 of the sums the Local Qoverbraent of 
 British Columbia will have to provide for, 
 we find that it amounts to $212,000 — 
 every item appears to be very carefully, 
 even frugally considered. Then they 
 have a British local revenue left them 
 by the Dominion, put down at $151,- 
 000. Assuming that the calculation 
 of their expenses is very moderate, 
 then we come to what they hive to meet 
 them. The 80 cents per head would 
 be $48,000 ; the subsidy would be $35,CX)0; 
 the balance of mtere^t on debt .not in 
 curredv $25,000. That would give a total 
 of $259,000 against an actual existing ex- 
 penditure of $212,000 which is quite 
 irrespective of the new I>gislation and 
 other kindred expenses which will in their 
 new ^tate devolve upon them. It 
 mtut be remembered that in making an 
 arrangement with a country like this, 
 sparsely populated and with large boun- 
 oaries, provision must be made for inter- 
 nal development and in any union we 
 must make it satisfactory to the people of 
 that country as well as to ourselves. Look- 
 ing, therefore, at the whole state ot the 
 case, there would only remain to British 
 Columbia $100,000, which we propose to 
 give her for the land she agrees to cede to 
 the Dominion oq the line of railway. Sure- 
 ly that cannot be considered an unreason 
 able arrangement ; in fact, 1 ' have 
 not heard any one say. bo. 
 In Ontario, it is expected that alternate 
 sections of 20 miles will be given for. the 
 construction of the road whereas Britiab 
 Columbia gives a continuous grant oi 20 
 
 11 
 
 miles on each side. Therefore, the quan- 
 tity of land given by that colony is twofold, 
 that to be given by Ontario and Manitoba. 
 Therefore, the item respecting the land 
 can be defended successfully with respect 
 to the necessities and requirements of 
 the country, and in a lesser degree by the 
 cession of the land itself which the Domi- 
 nion is to' receive. We now come to the 
 portion of the arrangement which the 
 House, no doubt, considers the most seri- 
 ous feature, and that is the proposition for 
 the construotiop of the railway. Reference 
 has been made to the resolution of which 
 notice has been ^iven in another place. 
 Now, I desire at the ontset to call the 
 attention of the House to the language of 
 these resolutions before us, and show that 
 ■'t fully bears the interpretation which the 
 notice in question gives to it The lan- 
 guage of these resolutions is not that the 
 Government will build the railway them- 
 selves, but that Canada will senire the 
 construction of it. They are not in any 
 way bound to t|ie mode of constructing the 
 road wiiich sgme gentlemen are so desirous 
 of fastening upon us. 
 
 H<yrf'. Mr. .STEEVJSS-It points to the 
 building of the road. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— It points to the 
 best mode of constructing the road. 
 
 Hon. Mr- SANBORN— Perhaps the hon. 
 gentleman will agree to incorporate the 
 notice in question with the resolutions. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— It is impossible 
 to do so, as I shall presently show ; but in 
 any case it is unnecessary. The resolu- 
 tions, as originally framed, point 
 to precisely the same thing the Gov- 
 ernment have always had in contempLition. 
 The proposition to construct tho road with- 
 in a certain period ha« attracted a great 
 deal of attention, but I may explain that 
 we hive mentioned that time as most 
 likely to be occupied in the construction of 
 the work. It was not intended that we 
 should proceed agiin in the face of insu- 
 perable obstacles or jeopardize or injure 
 the resources of the country. It must be 
 remembered, too, that the people of Brit- 
 ish Columbia will stand hereafter precisely 
 in the same position as we ourselves— their 
 representatives will be here and in the 
 other branch, equally interested in the 
 prosperity and economical administration 
 of public aSairs. We men tioned the time 
 of 10 years as a guarantee that we were in 
 earnest, and the intention has teen always 
 the same — the construction of the road, by 
 private enterprize and Biioh aid as we could 
 give without -injuriouslj burthening the 
 resources of Canada Siipppse a war arose 
 in Europe tp-monow, and England be- 
 oame involved, would it be expected that 
 
 \ 
 
mm 
 
 145 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 146 
 
 we should nevertheless go on with the 
 uadertakin'i;. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SEYMOUR— It would only put 
 ofi* the evil day. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— It would only 
 put off the fortunate day rhear). Every 
 gentleman who has dlaousaed this Question 
 haa admitted that the road must be built 
 aooner or ]&tve, and that British Columbia 
 must oome into the Union. Does any one 
 hositate to acknowledge the tulvantagea 
 w^ohthat colony will derive fW>m the 
 opening up of communications with this 
 •oonfary? Mot only will she be benefitted 
 but the whole Dominion, by the opening 
 «p of rich territories which otherwise must 
 be waste for very many years to come. 
 We cannot be, ten years hence, in a better 
 eondition to aeal with this question than 
 we are now. Will the country be more 
 fertile or our resources more capable of 
 . meeting the exigency 7 Never can it be in 
 a better position to make a commencement 
 in this matter. Weall know the great inter- 
 est that is taken by Oreat Britain in the 
 progress of the Confederation, and the 
 mitortanoe which the statesmen and peo- 
 ple of thot country attach to the extension 
 of the system. It will not be denied— no 
 one has attempted to do so— that until the 
 railway is accomplished, no union will be 
 perfect, In the plan proposed, certainly, 
 there can be nothing .to alarm hon. gen- 
 Hemen. 
 
 Hon. Mr. TJRTELLIER DB ST. JUSi- 
 What will be the cost r 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMFBELI/— I cannot tell my 
 hon. friend, but I can tell him what wiU 
 te Uie cost to tills country, and that is the 
 
 Joint for us tr .^naider. What does my 
 on. fHend know of the coat of railways 
 heretofore 7 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIEK DB SI. J^ST— 
 I know that when any similar scheme was 
 laid betVtre the country, we had reports 
 otmsmjB and eatimatea of competent men 
 to guide UB, but we have no such facta be- 
 fore us 'in the present 
 
 Hdn. Mr. CAMPBELL— There will be a 
 survey. I believe the expenditure for 
 raUways up to this time in this country 
 has gone up as high as tl60,00a(X)0. But 
 th%t is not the burthen imposed upon this 
 country. If it had been said in 1894, when 
 our railway system was commenced, that 
 such a sum was to be expended in the 
 construction of railways, the country might 
 have been alarmed ; but who now speaks 
 of a very unnecessary burthen having been 
 imposed upon the country in connection 
 witn these public works, which have proved 
 so very beneficial to the country. Let us 
 look back for a moment to the circum 
 stancs in which Canada stood at the time 
 
 she incurred some of the large claims 
 which have resulted so satisfactorily, and 
 have placed us, in connection with other 
 causes, in our present condition of proa- 
 peritv. When we undertook our present 
 Canal system, which haa been very 
 advantageous to the country, 
 we had (in Ontario and Quebec) only a 
 population of 1,100,000, and yet we enter- 
 ed upon Ui6 construction of public work* 
 wbiob have oOst $10,000,000. Then, we 
 had a debt of 15,31^000 with a revenue 
 9f only $1,26^000. Then, some years 
 later, we embarked in the railway s^tem, 
 when we IumII on^ a population in the 
 Ganadas of 1,842,000, with a revenue of 
 96,puq,000,andadebt of •20,000,000. At 
 that tune, we entered upon the construc- 
 tion of an eUpensive system of railways — 
 assistance was ^ven to some of these enter- 
 prises in viurious shapes. The result has 
 be^n the construction of 3,000 miles of 
 railVray, involving an expenditure of $160,- 
 
 ooo,oa>. ^ 
 
 Hon.'Mr. TESSIER— Was the prospectus 
 of the Uovemment promising ten per o^nt. 
 realized? 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— That prospectus 
 was put forward by members of the then 
 Government amongst others, but its state- 
 ments have been more than realized as 
 respects the earnings. The expenses of 
 construction, however, were so much 
 increased by the occurrence of the Russian 
 War, and from other causes that\the share- 
 holders have sustained heavy los^fts. There 
 can be no question, however, as to tiie 
 80undn«Bs of the views which were then 
 held by those who were dealing with 
 public questions, with respect to the 
 advantages idiidh the road would confer 
 upon the country at large. Similar reaulta 
 may reasonably be expected to aoqrue 
 from the construction of the railway to the 
 Pacific^ on the terms on which 
 we expect to baYe it aocompliahed. 
 Now witn respect to the mode in which 
 this railway must be constraoted. The re- 
 solutions say that " the Oovemment of 
 the Dominion undertake to secure the 
 commencement simultaneously, within 
 two years,,' and " to aeoure its completion 
 withm ten years ttom the date of Union." 
 Now supposing that plan be pursued, as 
 proposed in the resolutions, the infbrma- 
 tion we have been able to get from men 
 competent to speak on the aubject leads 
 us to believe that the road can be built 
 with the free grants and the aid of a small 
 subsidy^ 
 
 Hon. Mr. LBTBLLIER DE ST. JUST.— 
 What will be the total amount of land ? 
 
 Hon Mr. CAMPBELL.— The hon. mem- 
 ber can easily make the necessary calcula- 
 tion. 
 
 '■% 
 
146 
 
 ge olaims 
 torily, and 
 with other 
 m of proa- 
 or present 
 teen Terj 
 oountrjr, 
 BO) only • 
 k we enter- 
 blic worke 
 Taen, we 
 a reyenue 
 >me years 
 
 •y >7>toio» 
 ion in the 
 evenue of 
 100,000. At 
 oonstruo- 
 railways — 
 hese enter- 
 result has 
 miles of 
 re of $160,- 
 
 prospeotus 
 ^n per o^nt. 
 
 proapootus 
 the then 
 it its state- 
 reidixed as 
 zpenses of 
 so much 
 thefiussian 
 ,t\the share- 
 e^M. There 
 , as to the 
 were then 
 ealing with 
 eot to the 
 Dukl confer 
 ikilar results 
 1 to aoqrue 
 ilway to the 
 n which 
 Domplished. 
 ie in which 
 id. There- 
 emment of 
 secure the 
 ily, within 
 oompleiion 
 of Union." 
 pursued, as 
 lie inftorma- 
 it from men 
 ibjeot leads 
 tn be built 
 d of a small 
 
 r. JUST.— 
 of land ? 
 9 bon. mem- 
 lary caloula- 
 
 147 
 
 British 
 
 [April 3, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 148 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. JUST.— 
 The Qovemment should be prepared with 
 such inrormstion. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CASIFBELL.— We must bear 
 in mind that we hare to build a railway, 
 alongside of which the land is situated- 
 We believe besides the land grant the 
 Dominion need only gire* subsidy ranging 
 from 97,000 to |10,000 a mUe, to accom- 
 plish the construction of the road. In the 
 ca&e of the Central Pacifio, theGoremment 
 of the 'Dnited States gare a larger subsidy, 
 some 916,QPP a mile, and in the Mountain 
 countty t«,000 a mile. The Northern 
 Pacific Bailway, howerer, is being built 
 without any money subsidy at all, and it 
 runs through a country which, on tho whole, 
 is not so fertile as that which the Canadian 
 Pacific will pass through. The sum I have 
 mentioned will not bear hardly on the re- 
 sources of the country, and should not 
 cause us to be alarmed, eipeoially when we 
 come to review our past history. It will 
 probably take from the present time to 
 ISIS to survey the line. Then suppose we 
 build 100 miles the tirst year, we will only 
 have to pay $50,000 interest on the subsidy ; 
 290 miles the next would be $100,000 ; 400 
 miles the interest on subsidy would be 
 $200,000, and so on until completion. The 
 road is not to be built in a year, and our 
 resources wiU not be burthened in any in 
 jurious or serious way. 
 
 But it is urgisd why not mclude the re- 
 solution, of which notice has been given 
 elsewhere, in the present arrangement It 
 is unnecessary, in my opinion, but more 
 than that, it would force us to send back 
 the whole scheme to British Columbia, and 
 open the door for other changes. Ereiy- 
 body who knows anything about the pio- 
 oeedings in that colony is aware that there 
 were persons who required uthar stipula- 
 tions than those embodied in the resolu. 
 tions They were told that the measure 
 was in the nature of a treaty— I use that 
 term for oonvenienoe— and they could not 
 make changes in its details without send- 
 ing it baok here. We must endeavour to 
 avoid all unnecessary delays in the accom- 
 plishment of this Union. And what pos- 
 sible benefit woiitd be derived from the 
 course proposed ? It is not necessary to 
 make things really, but only apparently, 
 clearer than they an ttow. 
 
 Hon. Mr. DICKSON— We must put that 
 construction on the words which appear 
 here. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— My hon. friend 
 is probably right as to the literal construc- 
 tion to bo put on the resolutions. 
 
 pHon. Mr. STEEVES— Does my hon. 
 friend wisb to argue that hereafter the in- 
 terpretation will not be given accoriling to 
 the words of the written document ? 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— I do not think 
 the literal meaning of tho resolutions will 
 be as hon. gentlemen desire to insist on, 
 especially when they are coupled with the 
 one to be passed in the other House — ask- 
 ing the authority of Parliament to con- 
 struct the road by private enterprise and 
 not by the Dominion. Nothing can be 
 plainer than the language of thu resolu- 
 tion : "Resolved, that the railway re- 
 ferred to in the address to Her Majesty 
 concerning the Union of British Columbia 
 with Canula, adopted by this House on 
 Saturday the 1st April instant, sAcuid be 
 eoHitrueied aftd worked by private enierpriie, 
 and not by the Dominion Government ; and 
 that the public aid to be given to secure 
 that undertaking should consist of such 
 liberal grants of land, and such subsidy m 
 money, or other aid, not unduly pressing 
 on the industry and resources of the Do- 
 minion, as the Parliament of Canada shall 
 hereafter determine. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIBR DE ST. JlTfeT— 
 That is not in your treaty. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— It makes no dif- 
 ference whether it is in the treaty or not 
 —it gives the real interpretation to the re- 
 solutions before us. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CHRISTiE-If that be the 
 case, why not then send the matter back 
 to British Columbia, and ask the Legisla- 
 ture to place the same interpretation upon 
 it. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— I have abeady 
 shown you why that cannot be safely done. 
 It must be remembered too that there are 
 other interests besides of those of British 
 oonneotion- interests which would carry 
 British Colombia in another direction. 
 
 Hon. LET£LLI£BDBSrr. JUST— What 
 are they 7 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— Every one 
 knows perfectly #ell. The large sum of 
 $7,000,000 was readily given for the terri- 
 tory of Alaska, a ooantry to the north of 
 British Columbia, and by no means-eo rich 
 in resources. Therefore it is necessary for 
 the oonsolidation of British interests on 
 this continent that #e should not unneces- 
 sarily jeapordize the union of Canada with 
 the colony on the Pacifio shores. It u 
 notes if we were jnaking an arrangement 
 with a foreign obuntry. The people of 
 British Columbia will form a part of our 
 population, and take the some interest in 
 theaifatirs of the,Dominion, that we do 
 ourselves ; and it is not likely, when she 
 oomes into the Union, she will wish to 
 push this enterprize forward to the injury 
 of the Dominion, with whose prosperity 
 she will be so closely identified. This 
 railway is not necessarily a British Colum- 
 bia project, even if the colony were not to 
 be united to Canada, they woulJ have to 
 
140 
 
 Biitish 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 160 
 
 open up A speedy communications with 
 Manitoba and t)ie North Weit. An ordin- 
 ary road would not answer the purpoic, 
 but a railway would hare to be built as 
 soon as praotioable -it was apart of our 
 policy in annexing the Nort)i West, That 
 fertile ooun^ would be little useful to 
 - Dominion unless it luid speedy access to 
 tbe markets of Canada and the United 
 St*tea. We must, therefore, consider tbe 
 question in » Canadian point of view— in 
 relation to tbe North Wtst as well as to 
 tbe PMifio ' oolooy. Without a ndlwaar 
 no population will flow into tbe North 
 West and we shall reoeire no adnntagae 
 firem our large territorial acqaisition. 
 I believe that this great work can be boilt 
 with tbe grants' of land and a money sub- 
 sidy of about f 10,000 a rmlle. Ereiy one 
 agrees that tbe Union is necessary, and 
 that the railway is an benritable part of the 
 scheme of Union ; and all, that is in dis- 
 pute, is tbe best mode of constructing the 
 road." I doubt if a more' satisfsctoinr mode 
 can be proposed. I have not beard of any 
 other havrng been suggested. If, then, 
 we believe that the admission of British 
 Columbihinto Union with Canada is nooes- 
 sary, and tnat the railway is an essential 
 feature of that Ouion; if wi believe that 
 the whole arrangement is neeesiary to the 
 preservation of that Britisb opttiftetion 
 whidh ttoA tended to make this counter' 
 happy and prosperous, we should hi^Ve no 
 hesitation m.posfeiog the measure in its 
 preseint shispA. Ourexperiehce in tMiprist 
 shows US th«t we need nf)ib«tutoi^lirtuiiver 
 of the resolfe t|mt iiiem.tim' t^<M|D- 
 strtretion of mnful xA^Uo'liid^: . Ifa th# 
 prewtat duii tlie p|& ii ib tttMUif ,#JIJ«> 
 bear U^biv oh m rMiirfak?$r^*eU«bi 
 try, wfaiohlue in nieli wipfci p f <iiiMs bf dje- 
 velopment from year to year (oh^W) ' 1 
 
 Hon. igr. usmxassi Ds ST. jvar, 
 
 who: ft>Ho««Mt imr- 'FmimIi, said- «Mr- h»: 
 ntott s«3^ kt the o«tMf|-tiiat siaoo (XmfMi* 
 ittimiwuMi a^ooiai^itbed fkiot, b» waa 
 . pMpaved: to aoeept it, and mako it as 
 aooeptAblo M poaeible to th* poopto of tbo 
 Doimhiott. Heiaus^ howevw, tut* strong 
 groond immodiately against tbo passMo 
 of the resolutions, as oommitttng the 
 House to a ziHMt dangerous financial policy. 
 He had listened with mnofa attl»ntH« to 
 tbe remarks of the hon. Postmaster Omi- 
 eral, in the bone that Uo would be able to 
 advance sittne tegltimato argument 'before 
 committing the House to a sdiemeof Bueh> 
 a nature. Bohadheeid with much 8Ut<- 
 prise the Postmaster General advance as 
 one of the reasontf for dealing hastily 
 with the question that if we did not unite 
 now with British Columbia, she might ere ' 
 long be lost to Canada and the Empire^ 
 He had no hesitation in saying that if the 
 people of British Columbia were not loyal 
 
 enough to enter tbe Confederation on rea- 
 sonable terms, and were only to be bought 
 at tuoh an extravagant price as that men- 
 tioned in tbe rosolutions, it would be far 
 better for us not to have them at all in 
 the Union. If thev had not tb« courage 
 to continue to be JE^gUsh subjeotj, they 
 wero not worth buying. If thev 4^ not 
 wish to stay t^tctojr tbe ihg of Bhglan<jl. 
 except they aro/bought. he didnotsie the 
 neoessity or; tiM us* of fbrolng them and in- 
 curring suob lui immense, expense for that 
 purpose. Th* Hon. Postmaster General 
 and another Minister in th* Boom of Com- 
 mons, hsd said that th* eonditions oi Union 
 S bodied in the resolutions, were in 
 I nature of a treaty, but that was no 
 reason why this House should not b« 
 allowed to discuss and examine those 
 terms, and why it should be cidled to pass 
 tUem in such bante aa the Government 
 wanted it to do. If British Columbia wish- 
 ed to dictate terms, and such unreasonable 
 terms to Canada, and not accept our own, 
 we hod far better refuse to receive her 
 into our Union. The scheme which had 
 been settled and agreed to between the 
 delegates of British Columbia and our llin- 
 isten, seeme^ to him to be of a nature to 
 invotve us in such financial embarrass- 
 ments as would ultimately lead tis to bank- 
 ruptcy. The Hon. F itmaster General had 
 said that we would r .t be bound to con- 
 struct the pacific road with our money; but 
 another ^Imister bad si^id in. uother place 
 tJ^t it would be const^t<d bj thie Gov- 
 *mment,,aBd the resoltit^nf tbem)Belves 
 s^ted dU^i|;?^ly t^t it must 
 fc, , constoiieted Ji^ S«» J««» 
 ''OW^, tWs, ^ , and, it woqld 
 oqlf^Ahti^mi^M. T^:Hon. B«- 
 Qffvit Qenecol (Jli-j CUto«is) lutH luiA OuX 
 tb*_ n > Mh s,.t<»,b* takOn lo'r tto oopstraction 
 wiMild b^ to gra^t 64 mitUona ufn of 
 l«a4 aioMCHMiroaft*, to privot* oompanies, 
 wbio.wovMa olao b* aided by. mug^ giaiita 
 firona : the Government, to. th* amount of 
 seven or ei^i miUiona. 
 
 Hon. Mr.CHAPAlSexphUnedthatifthe 
 whole of the lands w*r* .given, ttey wOuld 
 onionnt to 64 mUIion a«r««; bnttbat if 
 Only alternate blooka of oat mile were 
 ^en to th* compftny undertaking the 
 construction of the rood, the gtoat would 
 then amount to cnly half, or 32,000,000 
 aor^s. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DB ST. JUST 
 said that m that case, supposing all those 
 lands could be sold at fl per acre, ttiey 
 would only realise 32 million dollara, 
 and with seven or eight millions sub- 
 sidy, the whole would only amount to 38 
 or 40 million doUors, and it was preitoster- 
 ous to think that any company would un- 
 dertake the construction of 8uoh a road. 
 
 it< 
 
 i\ 
 
160 
 
 on on rea- 
 b« bought 
 tbftk men- 
 ild be far 
 at all in 
 ^6 oourage 
 eotJ, they 
 r 4ii not 
 f 5^ilan4.. 
 not Me the 
 lemandin- 
 iM for that - 
 )t General 
 ■eofCknn- 
 u oi Union 
 were in 
 lat waa no 
 Id not be 
 sine thoie 
 lledtopaas 
 ioTemment 
 imbia wish- 
 ireaaonable 
 t our own, 
 receive her 
 wUoh had 
 Btween the 
 nd our Min- 
 t, nature to 
 embarrau- 
 itis to bank- 
 Qeneitilhad 
 ind to con- 
 ■moneys but 
 lother place 
 ^y thie Cloy- 
 tbem3C|lTe8 
 it must 
 n year* 
 would 
 10: Hon. Be- 
 «4e»iatbai 
 opiiatnwition 
 Dna aqras of 
 loompanies, 
 
 eUBOunt of 
 
 161 
 
 British 
 
 (April 3, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 152 
 
 idthfttifthe 
 , tbey w6uld 
 bat that if 
 mile were 
 trteking the 
 gnat would 
 »r 32,000,000 
 
 ST. JUST 
 ng all those 
 »r aore, they 
 lion dollara, 
 Billions BUb- 
 nount to 38 
 as preposter- 
 ly would un- 
 iuch a road. 
 
 the estimf.ted cost of ^oh was 100 mil- 
 lion dollar'), for such a gront. If we put 
 such conditions to the construction of the 
 road that ao companv would or could ac- 
 cept them, it would be far more honour- 
 able and iitraightforward not to make such 
 promises as those contained in the resolu- 
 tions. If we could judge of the probable 
 cost of Uiis Pacific Railway by that of the 
 Interoolonial, which was only ona-sizth ita 
 leng^i and was going to cost iromtwen^ 
 to twenty five millions, if not mors, we 
 might safely assert that the Pacifio 
 would oost at least 150 millibai. 
 The IriteNolonial passed through aweU 
 settled oonntry for a good part.of its length, 
 and supplies and materials could be carried 
 along it* oourse by the rirer and Gulf of 
 St. Lawrenoe, and then by the Bay of Cba- 
 leuni and the railroads of Nova Scotia 
 and New Brunswick, whilst there was no 
 aocoromedatiop of tne kind for tho (vq- 
 strufition oi the Fadfio Railway ; tuer o was 
 notljng but almoat insuperable obstacles 
 to its construction, uid be^. . < its oost would 
 be infinitely greater per mile than that of 
 the Intercolonial. It had been raid, in 
 OK^er to commit tbs Senate m favour of 
 tbi resolutions, that the road would not be 
 co'astructed if it was found impossible to 
 do it with the means mentioned, but this 
 was only a dodge to blind th^ metnbersof 
 this House, and onoe committed %a it, ttie 
 Gorernment would certainly §o to enor- 
 mous expense ' towards it, 9r el8«);tlfey 
 would be playing a very dbboq(wa|t>lf m^ 
 with British Columbia fagr;|^iMHn|| ynM 
 they did not intend tQ giv*^. J^> tih^tiMt 
 tbM a^ omIm jaiflweoM ^;U«KbW»ml^ 
 to benrnponfihe ntwnbeM i»fevw9f w«W! 
 rewli«tf^.«e,bed b«<m tbeoMH l*#%|t«Kr- 
 with ftHMBt .<» •Qotbw nMeetur^' «< ^ 
 Government, which they wailed tq pue, 
 agamst tlw;,wishM of a majerity oftUs 
 House. Wbim enpaeitaan wm oflbred to a 
 mfim**> of tbO' Oa^RfQiliit ill this Bouieu 
 it was said tfiU tiM Houir Uid no righTto 
 eoiititeraottbeinMMiialpolieifof theGov^ 
 oient, anda& UQdtM inflnenoe was brought 
 to bear on some members to persuade 
 ttiem to vote for atn*a8ur^.#bi6h they dia- 
 tq;>proved. The same tlung was being done 
 in the present instance^ ami he must high- 
 Iv condeamsuoh.a oourse on tlie p»rt of 
 the Government^ and claim the right for 
 this House to discuss every question as 
 finely and deliberately as the otner House. 
 The Senate ought to be perfectly indepen- 
 dent of the Govenunentj otherwise they 
 would occupy a very undignified posiUoa 
 before the country. The country had 
 already signified its approval of the course 
 of the Opposition last year, on the ques- 
 tion of the odious tax imposed on coal 
 and breadstufik wliich the Govemuient 
 carried in this House only by the question- 
 
 able meoiis to wliioli lie biulalr<!iidy advert- 
 ed, and ho firmly believed that the 
 country would also approve of his oirn and 
 his friet.ils, conduct towards this extrava- 
 gant proposition ot the Goveinment. These * 
 propos' tioiis, us had be«n naid by the iJon. 
 Jfostm ister General, related Ic; three dif- 
 ferent questions, that of representation, ot 
 finance, and the political qijestion. With 
 regaid to the repre«ientatiori he (Hon. M 
 de Leteller) thought that the terms 
 agreed to and granted to the people of 
 British Columbia were very unfair for the 
 res', of the Provinces, inasmuch as they 
 gave six representatives to a popula- 
 tion not larger than that of one of our 
 large counties in Canada. The terms of the 
 Oo^ederation of the Provinces, 
 settled at the Quebec Conference, wern 
 unjust for the Province of Quebeci, ^''•^ 
 much as its representation was to be iur- 
 ever Axed at a certain number, 65. whilst 
 that of the other Proviaces could be in- 
 oreaaed with the increase of their popula- 
 tion, aad be considered that the grantiug 
 of six representatives to a population 
 wbkdi is probably not over 10,000 whites — 
 beskiesthe 5,000 Chinamen and 45,U00 
 Indians — was an aggravation of the injus- 
 tice done to the Province of Quebec, as 
 that representation was not at all based 
 on the lame proportion of population, 
 it waa true that the resolutions stated. that 
 the population of British Columbia was . 
 taken to be 60,000 ; and it bad been said 
 the number: oi^ wbit^ wes 16,000 ; but 
 wben:w«se«jtbaAneith<»r the Lieutenant 
 GciverpiPr B»r any wier autnority could 
 sMte(*«a«tlari)»bat)tM number was,noron 
 whuilNMitithe) supfOMltioii of that number 
 rMtod^ritntigbt salely be aaserted that the 
 re«k maubegr of whites, did ^cit exceed 10,- 
 060. He repeated thi^ tl^e granting of 
 siairepfesentativea to Bi;itisb Columbia was 
 okanging the base of (he representation- 
 agreed to »t the QMebee Conference, that 
 it'waa «a infringement on the rights of the 
 Province of Quebec in particular, and that 
 the repreaentativea of that Province hod 
 therefor^ a^perfect right, and it was more- 
 over tkeirdnty, to oppose tlie resolutions. 
 With regard to the hnanoial question, . he 
 fooad thai the Government had adopted 
 aprmoiple diametrically ^Ttposcd to its 
 de^«ed policy, the same &« for the basis 
 of tberepresentaftion. We had seen ILe 
 Gintemment dismissing old servants of tL > 
 UA« Province of Canada, and reducing tlie 
 salariee of others, withput any indemnity 
 whatever ; but by thes^e resolntions they 
 agreed to pensioning off and giving large 
 salaries to the oflioers ot thai British Colum- 
 bia Government. And reverting to the 
 subject of the ra,ilway he asked whether 
 any «ensible and honest man would under- 
 take to do what ho knew he would not be 
 
'^iiP''^m& 
 
 W^ffimmr. 
 
 163 
 
 iBritish 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Colun^ia. 
 
 164 
 
 ih 
 
 able to accomplish with his present means, 
 and whether a man in his private transac- 
 tions, engaged in theoopstnictionof awork 
 without Hnit ascertaining ita probable 
 cost, or its ultimate value to biI^. The 
 Government was now exactly in tiie posi 
 tion of a man who would thiis act, for 
 when he (hon. Mr. L.) aaked the Postmaa- 
 ter General if be knew what the road 
 would cost, or if its praotioabUitjr had been 
 ^ ascertained, or ifheooold point out the 
 means to oonatmot it without inoreasing 
 the burthen of taxation, the bon gentte* 
 man could give no satismetorjr anawers to 
 the questions. If the flon. Postmaster - 
 General was to apply siioh a prinoii>le to 
 the administration of &is private afikim he 
 would probably soon find that it was a 
 •dangerous principle, a principle that would 
 soon bring him to bankruptcy and ruin;. 
 WiUi regard to the political question, 
 whilst thhiking that the Union of British 
 Columbia with Canada might be acceptable 
 and desirable if it could be accomplished 
 -on reasonable terms, 1w did not nelieve 
 that it ought to be paid for at such a prioe as 
 that laid down in the resolutions. As it 
 was, it might be said that British Columbia 
 -dictated the terms of Union^ and that she 
 actually annexed Canada to her. Ue con- 
 cluded by condemning theOovemment for 
 reftising to help the oonstruction. of the 
 North Shore Railway, wbtoh would be bene- 
 ficial to a large portifi^i of the people and 
 the trade of Canada, when they are ready 
 to expend hundreds of millions of doUan 
 on a railway in a barren awl mountainous 
 coontry, without fint aaoertainiag ita 
 praotioabillty, and wfaioh eumot pay Ua 
 •working expenses. Hf Bwvedin amend- 
 ment tiiBt, after «8 resolved" insert, 
 ^'thatin the c^inkik of tins Hodae, the 
 further oonsUemtion of this queation be 
 postponed for the iffeeentaesskm of Par- 
 liament, in order that greater and more 
 careful consideration Btty be given to a 
 question of sueb magbitode and import- 
 ance to tbi peo^ of tills Dominion." 
 
 Hon. Mr. WOiMOT said— In rising to 
 second the amendment proposed bv my 
 hon. friend, I mar aayatthe etataet that I 
 am in no way indtepoaed to carry oat the 
 policy involved in the Act f6r the uniMi of 
 British America, and to bring Britisb Col- 
 umbia into the Union. What I say u that 
 if the Oovemmeat embody fai these reso- 
 lutions any stipulations like that whidi is 
 contained in the resolution, of whi<h 
 notice has been given in the House of 
 Commons, then a great many of my ob- 
 jections would vanish- We have already 
 amiexcdthe North West Territory, and, 
 as one member of the House, I have been 
 quite preparel to spend money in opening 
 up communications with that country, 
 knowing that otherwise it would remain a 
 
 burthen on the Dominion I am also 
 quite prepared to give what is proposed in 
 these resolutions to British Columbia 
 Icnowing that Canada is not likely to de- 
 rive any revenue from that colony for a 
 length of time equal to its expenditure. 
 But when I read the paragraph reUtive to. 
 the eoBstruction of the Paoifio Railway, I 
 oertsinly fisel that I'am not prepwed to 
 
 gve my vote in ftvour of propositioaB for 
 16 building of 2,500 or 2,700 miles ^f a 
 KM^ otthe expense of whioh we aave no 
 definite fMts before us— of whioh no ex- 
 plorations or surveys have been made, and 
 when throughout the whde extent, includ- 
 ing the BedSiirer and British Columbia, 
 there are only some 2.'>,000 white inhabi- 
 tants. We have already ill the Confedera- 
 tion Act made provision fortbe oonstmotiofi 
 'of an Intercolonial Railway: The wisdom 
 of Parliament has decided that that road 
 shall be built through a part of New 
 Brunswick at a much greater expense 
 than if built in another direction. The 
 t-Une Act has provided that as soon es the 
 finances of the country will permit, the 
 canals should be . enlarged Tbe cost 
 of the railway will be, at least, $20,000,- 
 000: the cost of oaoat improvements 
 probably $30,000,000. The estimated 
 cost of the Padfio Railway will be some- 
 thing like 1100,000,000; and certainly, 
 vrtien I oome to consider the population, 
 resouroes, and existing engagements of 
 Canada^ such a aoheme seeoi^ to mean 
 simply bankruptcy. Experienoeis the 
 great taadher, and tells as what has hap- 
 pened when pradenoe has taken wings 
 and teck l e a a enterprise has taken its place. 
 In AIllAm'a hiatmy of Eurctpe \ find the 
 fbUowIng deaoription of the rulway mania 
 that oc eu rred in Grent Britain daring the 
 ye«fs 1844-45-46 : 
 
 •The first eflbet of thu state cT thni«,aaaaa- 
 plelotislB tiMoataetaalt was psrUoaa In UMsnd, 
 wasavastiacreaseln ratlway spsoniattoii, and 
 tbe trowth of what has not inaitUT been called 
 ths Itallwajr Maalau It wm dtartDf ths 7«ais 
 U44, VUi, an4 UM that tlria si«um raoelved lis 
 nut 4eTe>opment, and It wac then pushed to a 
 detaree of exbravaMnee whwh wooM not be er»- 
 dliadbjrftitaie Umea iraafrWtasted to* a host of 
 conieniMrary wttBMsefe and evuwed ojr lasUng 
 eflMU apon the aJM abd Artones of the ooiitatrr. 
 UoniMurSd with miftfrer whloh then seised the 
 pubUe mind, and toe magnltode of the speonl*- 
 tloas In oonseqnenoe set afloat, the temow -iduth 
 8ea Babble, and the oorresnnidlnc ftrrourof Kna- 
 laud in lUl-K and UBMBrTsink Into inslntliS- 
 aaoe. • • • • Itwou.dbewvll If tbe historian 
 hsd<>n1ytora<wrd the Immediate leases whloh 
 aroM to parties eoAeemed In them from these 
 gicaotio ondertaklnis ; bat, qBfortunateijr, the 
 evil did not stop .here, but, on the contrary, has 
 Impressed Its mark In a lasting way on the na- 
 tloa .1 eharaoter and on the estimation In which 
 the Levialatare la held." 
 
 There vou have an illustration of the 
 way in which money was recklessly spent. 
 Surely this House is not prepared to forget 
 dictates of sound judgment and counte- 
 nance a policy which, if carried out^Within 
 
 tors,, 
 worid_ 
 to seel 
 
 Whaf 
 
 eosti 
 
 We I 
 
 nenc 
 
 and 
 
 away| 
 
 ima 
 
 this'. 
 
 prescl 
 
 sible] 
 
 build 
 
154 
 
 am also 
 ipoaed in 
 :!olumbi4. 
 jly to de- 
 my for a 
 «Bditure. 
 elatiT«to 
 Elatlway, I 
 )p«red to 
 ■itimufor 
 lilM ^r a 
 « )mm no 
 oh no ex- 
 made, and 
 at, inolad- 
 Colombia, 
 te inhabi- 
 [jonfedem- 
 ottruotioti 
 le wisdom 
 that road 
 t of Naw 
 it expense 
 ition. The 
 Boonas the 
 lermit, the 
 Tbe cost 
 t, 120,000,- 
 provements 
 • estimated 
 I be some- 
 1 certainly, 
 poputation, 
 gements of 
 OIP to mean 
 enoeis the 
 at has hap- 
 aken wings 
 sen its place, 
 lei; find the 
 ilway mania 
 1 daring the 
 
 things, as aos- 
 cMMlnlbesnd, 
 conuaon. aad 
 4t bMn oalled 
 rtDCttMTsais 
 m iMwlTed Its 
 an pmbed to a 
 iM no(b«er»- 
 ledtarataoMof 
 Mdby iMttny 
 oTtlis ooub*J7. 
 ban selMd ttas 
 yt U»e •!*<">»•: 
 
 [«BrTonr<»fEiw- 
 Into ImignUW- 
 ir the historian 
 ta. losses whloh 
 iotn from tasss 
 rortttuatelir, tbe 
 te contrary, nas 
 way on the ?•- 
 nation tn which 
 
 ration of the 
 iklessly spent. 
 >ared to forget 
 and counte- 
 led out.withln 
 
 155 
 
 British 
 
 [April 3, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 15G 
 
 10 years as provided for in the resolutions, 
 must involve the Dominion in inextricable 
 embarrassment. .The Postmaster General 
 says that it is not the intention of the 
 Government to burthen the oountty, and 
 adds that the Dominion is not to bmld the 
 railway, but why do they not state the 
 facts clearly and explicitly in the resolu- 
 tions — or that we are prepared to give 
 certain moneys and lands— facilities for the 
 flsnstructioa of tbe road, and nothing 
 more. What has been done in (he past 
 may happen in the future. ..We have 
 alongside of us a viary enterprising people, 
 but let us see whitt history reora^ 
 with respect to their extravagance and 
 rash speculation in nulway and other mat- 
 ters during a period of their history. 
 
 "The humble petition of tbe Key. Sydney 
 Smith to the honorable House of Congress at 
 WasbtnKton. 
 
 " I petition your honorable House to Institute 
 some measures for the restoration bf American 
 Credit, and for the repayment of ijebts incurred 
 and repudiated by several of the States. Your 
 
 sum 
 iiblic 
 
 petitioner lent the State of Pensylvanla a sum 
 of money lor the purpose of some pub 
 Improvement. The'amount, though small, U to 
 
 him important, and Is a saying from a Ufa in 
 come, made with diffloulty and prlyatlon. If 
 their reAual to payrfkom whlchavery laiyenum- 
 ber of English families aresuflbring) had been the 
 resultof war produoedby the uqjust sggression 
 of powerful enemies— If it had artaen fh>m 
 civil discord— if It had pro<Bceded firom an 
 improvident applioatton or means in tbe first 
 yearsofeelfHioyainment— If it were the act of a 
 poor State struggling agalnit the barrenness of 
 nature— every fnend of America would have been 
 oontented to wait tor better tlmea ; but the fraud 
 Is committed In the pupad |daoe of Pennsylva- 
 nia, by the richest Stale in the Union, after the 
 wise Investment of the bmrcwed money in roa'ls 
 ev«7 day remlna the advantage. It Is an aet of 
 bad lalth which («1 Itaolisumuancas considered) 
 has no parallel and «> axeossk 
 
 Vorisltonljr tha loas of praparty which roar 
 fstlUonw lamanu stIU mora than Immense 
 power whtoh tha bad flrith ot America has 
 given to arlstoeratteal opinions and to tha 
 easmtosof frsa tnitttatioiis in the Old WosML 
 It Is In yaln any loagar to appeal to hIstCKT and to 
 point out the wrangs which the many have re- 
 aalyedfhNBtbefsw. Tbe Americans, who boast 
 to have Improvad tha Ins tt twtlons of the Old 
 World, havaatiaastequaUed Its erimes. Agreat 
 wMon after traapllDC ondarftwtaU earthly tyr- 
 asiny haa been guUtir ofa fraud as enoraums m 
 ever disgraosd the worst king of the uoat da- 
 graded nation of Burape. 
 
 "It Is palnltal to your petitioner to ase that 
 American citlsens excite, wherever they ^nay go, 
 the recaUeeUon that tiiey belong to a dishonest 
 people, who pride themselvea- upon having 
 wicked and having pUlaged Europe; sad this 
 mark 4ias been fixed, by their faithless leglste- 
 tors, on the best and moat honorable meu m the 
 world, whom every Englishman has been eager 
 to see and proud to reoelTe," 
 
 What I urge is that we should count tha 
 oost before we enter into this arrangement. 
 We are here, aa men of business expa- 
 nenoo, to deal with the question oalmly 
 and practically, and nut to be car tied 
 away by fitlse enthusiasm or dreams of the 
 imagination, I ask any bon. gentleman in 
 this House if it is possible for us, vrith our 
 present meana, to make ourselves respon- 
 sible for so enormous an obligation as the 
 building of this road will entail on us. 
 
 Whatever the House may do, I must enter 
 my protest agninst such a suicidal policy. 
 We have alrmdy had a little experience 
 in the way of railway construction. I have 
 been a member of a Committee formed, 
 on the motion of myhon. friend to the 
 left (Bon. Mr. Wark) to enquire into mat- 
 ters connected vrith the Intercolonial 
 lUilway. I have seen that the expendi- 
 ture on that road, in connection with sur. 
 veys alone, has amounted to f 1,200 a mile 
 — any railway engineer, who understood 
 his business, would perform the same work 
 for tMO a mile ; and I give this as one 
 instance of the nature of Crovemment 
 Railway works — just what the Pacific Rail, 
 way may be, and in what manner they are 
 managed in this country. Before we rush 
 blindly into these expenditures, we should 
 consider all the facts before us, and should 
 not allow ourselves to be carried away by 
 puriely imaginative schemes, cer- 
 tam to end in national dis- 
 aster. We have had some experienc» 
 in New Brunswick with respect to the con- 
 struction of railways. The hon. member 
 from St. John (Hon . Mr. Hazen) and my- 
 self were members of a Government who 
 entered into a contract with an English 
 firm, of which the late Mr. Brassey was a 
 meniiber to build a railway from St. John 
 to Shediao, and westerly to the American 
 bouikUry. The Province agreed to take 
 £1,200 stock per mile in the Company, 
 and advance as a first mortgage £1,8(X> 
 more— altogether £3,000 per mile. Unfor- 
 tunately, for the country, that Govern- 
 ment (laughter) was diaplaced, and my 
 h<m. friend in firont <A me (Hon. Mr.' Hit- 
 obeli) was a member of tha administration 
 that auoeeeded. They thought that the 
 road could be built for » ■mailer sum, and 
 they agrted to buy out the English Com- 
 pany for £90,000 SterUng. The eventual 
 result waa thi^t the road oost |43,500 a 
 mile, oash paid, instead of a charge on the 
 ProTinoe aa was oiiginally contemplated of 
 112,000 per mile. Then the Province of 
 New Erunswick adopted a different policy 
 — ^they agreed to give a subsidy of $10,000 
 per nule for certain roads to be built with- 
 m the ProTince. Under that Act, several 
 railways wera builtand oompleted (<< hear " 
 firom GoTemmeni benches) ; and now, 
 had the Dominion Government come 
 down with a definite proposition to give a 
 subsidy, of so much a mue, to any Compa- 
 ny which would be willing to construct the 
 work supplemented by a grant of land, I 
 would have been prepared to support it, 
 instead of being compelled in the interests 
 of the people of the Dominion to vote 
 against it ; for according to its liberal oon- 
 ■truetion, we must pledge the country to 
 enormous expenditures beyond what it is 
 able to bear. I dp not wish to see this 
 
 f-"*^ 
 
jiif^^mmmm. 
 
 '»P!!W!B!!!*pw»? 
 
 157 
 
 British 
 
 [April 3, 1871.]. 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 158 
 
 I ; 
 
 m 
 
 »i;!| 
 
 country placed in the humiliating position 
 of possibly repudiating its BacredT obliga- 
 tions : and, therefore, I feel bound to take 
 n position on this questitm which is reoon> 
 citable with my sense of public duty. 
 
 Hon. Mr. MILLEK said that although he 
 would dii!er from the hon. Members who 
 had preceded him in the vote he would 
 give on the question under debate, there 
 were some sentiments in ifae spMoies tif 
 his hon. friends in whioh he unresorvecUy 
 agreed. He agreed with ftehoo. member 
 from Grand ville in the magnitude and im- 
 portance of the subject tmder oonudera- 
 tion- the great scope for inquiry and dis- 
 cussion it afiorded— the vast national 
 aspects it presented, and the grave respon- 
 sibilities involved in the motion before the 
 House. But he had no sympathy with the 
 general tone of that hon. gentleman's 
 speech ; he could not, in many instances! 
 see the force of his arguments, or -admit 
 the correctness of his conclusions ; he 
 could not certainly share in the gloomy 
 forebodings which his hon^ friends iiad in- 
 dulged in, or in their want of faith in the 
 ability of this Dominion to accomplish the 
 great work on which it had entered. Nor 
 did he believe the views of these hon. 
 members would find &vor with a majority 
 of that House or the country. On the 
 contrary, that Parliament would prove 
 itself equal to its hi^h duties on the pre- 
 sent occasion, as it hied done on occasions 
 of a stoilar character— as It had done in 
 dealing with Prince Edward Island^ New- 
 foundland, and Manitoba., he had every 
 hope and confidence. Siioh too he believe 
 ed to be the wish and expeotatSoa of the 
 great majority of the people of this Do- 
 minion, rhere was a doctrine prevalent 
 among -their Kepublican n igbliours, the 
 doctrine of ''manifest destiny," the Clean- 
 ing of which was familiar to all, and the 
 attainment of whidh wa.^ iVequently ad- 
 vocated on the principle that the end 
 justified the means. That dosirine looked 
 to the absorption, by that great power, of 
 all the territorv of this Continent, either 
 by force or diplomaqy, or in any other way 
 in which it coiild be aehitiveu. He could 
 not help ibinking that they too should 
 have theif manifost destiny; a de«tiny, 
 however, hot Of wrong or aggressian, or 
 of self-aggraadbement at the expense of 
 their neQ^bours, baft a jowtei and a nobler 
 one. Theirs shottld be a destiny of en- 
 lightened progriss— « destiwr to take ad- 
 vantage of the elements or future pros- 
 perity and g^fiieas, of right belonging 
 to them, and so profas«v within ttieir 
 reach, by uniting and consolidating in one 
 harmonious whOM, the maignifioent posses- 
 sessions of their Sovereign In British North 
 America (cheers.) That he believed to be 
 the destiny of' the Dominion, and it was 
 
 one alike worthy of their highest ambition 
 and within their abihty and reach. He was 
 avrare there were some among them with 
 whom these views might excite derisiofi ; 
 there were some whosneeiredat what they 
 called the pretensions of this great young 
 nation, and who were always read^ to be- 
 littleits presentstatnsand deride aad doubt 
 its ultimate saooess. Those, he felt sore, 
 wwe a small minority, daily growing "smal- 
 ler by degrees and beautifully less." He was 
 onprepai ed for the views expressed in some 
 quarters on the question before! the House ; 
 he was especially surprised at the expreis, 
 sions of his hon. fnend from St. Jolm, 
 (Hon. Mr. Haaen), whose great ability and 
 large Parliamentary experience gave 
 authority and weight to any tbing he said, 
 when he declared that because bf was an 
 opponent of Confederation fVoii»<the be- 
 ginning, he, as a member of tiiis*1Parlia- 
 ment, refused to assume any responiibility 
 on this question (hear, hear). Thaft hon. 
 gentleman desired to throw on the Origin- 
 ators of union all the odium of its results, 
 while wilUng to take all its benefits. But 
 he was content to assume all that respon- 
 sibility and defend the policy ot union. So 
 far, it muf t be admitted, the Confederacy 
 had proved a great success — bad proved at 
 least equal to all its higher obligations of 
 a national character, and the experience of 
 the past might reasonably make them 
 hopeful of the future. He said this in no 
 party sense and with no reference to many 
 OTts of administration of wbidi he disap- 
 proved. When he spoke of the higher na- 
 tional obligations of the Dominion, he al- 
 luded to those things above the ordinary 
 duties of internal administration, which it 
 was the especial misszon of Confedraiion 
 to achieve. First among these was 
 its duV to effect the union 
 under one government of every 
 square milekof British North American soil. 
 In de<Uing with Prince Edward island, 
 Newfoundland and Manitoba, Parliament 
 had exhibited a oegree of wisdom and 
 generusity that elicited admiration at home 
 and abroad, and although tho Island 
 Colonies had not thrown in their lot with 
 them, there was little doubt they would 
 not much longer hesitate to do so. In 
 both places, a counter action had already 
 set in ; prejudice and passion were rapidly 
 disappearing t>^re the li^t of truth and 
 reason; faction was fiut losing its hold 
 and inflaonoe ; the disadvantages of isola- 
 tion were daily becoming more apparent ; 
 the terms offisred were being niore calmly 
 discussed, and their liberaUty more gttheral- 
 ly admitted (obeersv Then again, in protect ■ 
 ing thehr invaluable fishery rights agahut 
 foreign eoeroaohknents ; in repelling on 
 more than one occasion hostile invasions of 
 their soil, hi allaying discontent in Nova 
 
158 
 
 it ambition 
 nh. He was 
 ; them with 
 is derisiop ■, 
 b what they 
 (reat ybong 
 eadyto be- 
 head doubt 
 le felt sore, 
 wiog "sBial- 
 M8." Hewu 
 ued m Mone 
 iUwHooBe; 
 ; the ezpres, 
 mSt. John, 
 ii ability and 
 ienoe g*ve 
 lag he aaid, 
 ue he was an 
 ftronMhe be- 
 tlus'f'ttrtia- 
 reaponfebility 
 
 Thflfc hbn. 
 on the /Origin- 
 jf its results, 
 enefits. But 
 11 that respon- 
 f ot union. So 
 e Confederacy 
 had proved at 
 ' obligations of 
 ) experience of 
 ly make them 
 said this in no 
 srenoe to many 
 t^oh be disap- 
 ■ the higher na- 
 ominion, he al- 
 , the ordinary 
 Btion, which it 
 f Confedration 
 ng these was 
 
 the union 
 X of every 
 1 American soil. 
 Sdward Island, 
 jba, Parliament 
 jf wisdom and 
 [liration at home 
 gh the Island 
 m tbeU: lot with 
 )ubt they would 
 to do 80. In 
 tion had already 
 ion were rapidly 
 ^t of truth and 
 : losing its hold 
 antages of isola- 
 ; more apparent ; 
 ting niore ca)mly 
 litymoregeAeral- 
 ag^n, in protect- 
 ry rights against 
 in repelling on 
 Mtile invasions of 
 soontent In Nova 
 
 15d 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 160 
 
 
 Scotii), in quellmg insurrection in the 
 North West and establishing order and 
 constitutional goyemmeaiwhere confusion 
 and anarchy prevaded, in doing those 
 things, which were amoent tho first cares 
 of a national existonof, the Dominion, al- 
 most unaided, had prorad eqinl toUadutj 
 (cheeri.) The 'pragma ao ht ao4 -the results 
 achieTed, war*. aaiiaJEMtoiiy. Tbavaak ter- 
 ritories of the Uudaon't Bi^ Comptaif, ao 
 long shut agoiast oolankatton aod letlile- 
 mnt had b«en add«4 4o th* Uakm, wUah 
 now Attended from the Atlantic to the 
 Booky MountaiiM. They had already 
 securad ^ te^tory out of whioh many 
 splendid oeloniaa would yet. be formed, 
 and that wou}d oier aa inviting home to 
 millions. ^jTbio doubted that soon the tide 
 of immigration would set towards those 
 fertile regions, and that ere lOnf they would 
 see the whole country from the Red 
 River to the Rooky Mountains, with cheap 
 and certain and quick communication, oc- 
 cupied by a prosperous population, con- 
 tributing to ih» strength and wealth of the 
 Dominion ? Yet even a few years ago, 
 how remote did what had already been ac- 
 complished appe|ir even to the most san- 
 guine? A few years ago the people of 
 the Maritime Provinces took leas 
 interest in the afikirs of old Cauada than 
 they did to day in the affiurs cf Manitoba : 
 it was not long since Montreal appeared 
 more distant to them than Winnipeg then 
 did. It was one of the happiest results of 
 Confederation, that through it, the inhabi- 
 tantaoftheOld Prorinoes were brought 
 into famiUar interoourse with eaoh other, 
 by which many groundleaa sectional jealous- 
 ies and Ibealprejudi es had been removed, 
 and a truer understanding of their common 
 interests secured. A diversity of wants and 
 interests had, in many oases, proved a bond 
 oftmity, showing them to be dependent 
 upon, and neoaasary to each other (dieerst 
 It was true, they.had not arrived at a politi- 
 cal miUenium in which aeotional narrowness 
 and faction had altogether given way to a 
 sense of public duty— such oould not be 
 expected;, and such was hot the case. But 
 among its substantial advantages, tlie re- 
 • suit of Confederation had also been to ele- 
 vate the tone of publio sentiment; to en- 
 large tiie views of the people and their 
 representatives ; to educate them all up to 
 the duties of their advanced growth, and 
 to infuse a courage and spirit of self-reli- 
 anoe in regard to whatever remained to be 
 done in the acodmplishmentof their mani- 
 festdestiny (aheers.)8uch were the political 
 results of Union ; its results on the material 
 prosperity of the people of every section of 
 the Dominion were equally gratir^ing. 
 Accustomed in their several i'rovinoes, 
 before that event to deal only wit>< 'ooal 
 subjects comparatively small and u. jpos- 
 
 12 
 
 ing, they perhaps required the education 
 the larger arena of this Parliament afford- 
 ed to enable them to deal hopefully and . 
 fearleaaly with a subject of the magnitude 
 <a thai imder consideration. He believed 
 this question would now be approached in 
 no tuakl or narrow spirit. He thoofifat 
 that no time should be lost — that no es- 
 ertiona sho.ld be spared, to seouretiie 
 adiniasion into the Union of Brit^ 
 Columbia en the one side, and 
 Prinoe Edward Idutd and Newfoundland 
 on the other. Under tbape oircumstanoes^ 
 and at a most aaapioiosu time, the appliea- 
 tioa of British Colutnbia to become part of 
 tiw Dominion of Canada waa submitted to 
 this Parliament. In conndering that ap- 
 plication, he would trespass on the patiences 
 of the EEouse to take a rapid glance at the 
 oountry, its value and resources, they were 
 about to secure by the proposed arrange- 
 ment. British Columbv^ including Van- 
 couver's Island, as they were all well aware, 
 was the most western dependency of Eng- 
 land on this continent. It comprised a 
 territory of about 290,000 square miles, 
 situated, with the exception of a small 
 portion of Vancouver's Island, above the 
 parallel of 49 ° N. lAt. It poasesseda sea- 
 coast of about 500 miles, as settled by the 
 Treaty of Washington in 1846, and a breadth 
 of ttetween 300 and 400 miles. The eoun- 
 ti^, although in many parts broken and 
 uneven, oontained much valuable agricul- 
 tural land, equal to the support of a great 
 population. The climate is admitted to 
 be one of the most desuable in the world 
 fcr natives of the temperate zones, and 
 they would all admit the importance of cli- 
 mate in inducing immigration. ''A dry, 
 warm summer; a bright, beautiful au- 
 tumn ; an open, wet winter and spring " — 
 is said to be a ixue description of the wea- 
 ther in Vancouver's Island, and all along 
 the sea cosst of British Columbia. Only 
 an imperfect estimate can be formed of its 
 population, as no census has ever yet been 
 talcen, but firom the best sources of infor- 
 mation available tht> population, consisting 
 of Whites, Indians, ana Chinese, may be 
 put down at 00,000. A few years after the 
 treaty of Wasldngton, Vancouver's Island 
 was granted by the Crown to the Hudson's 
 Bay Company under conditions of settle- 
 ment whioh were never complied with, the 
 object of that Corporatin-r being there as 
 elsewhere to retard settle n;jent wherever 
 their monopoly extended. These causes, 
 coupled with its recent settlement, will 
 aooount for its small population. But its 
 great resources, and unrivalled mari 
 time advantages, must before long make 
 it one of thu most thriving and important 
 communities on the Paoitic. Those re- 
 sources were very numerous. There waa 
 its timber, especially its pine, universally, 
 
mmum 
 
 m^mt 
 
 ^frnmi^^ff^^'^t 
 
 l-lfWIIJ-!rt 
 
 161 
 
 British 
 
 [Apeil 8, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 162 
 
 ii 
 
 •if; 
 
 ii 
 
 eonoeded to be the best in the world, and 
 M ezbsuBtlew «• it wm rapeitor. Murketa 
 for thii oominodity on both lidM of the 
 ..Pudfic were abandaat, end writere w«U 
 M^ottlpted with the •al^eet oontend that 
 fte inveataent of onntu and'laboiir in 
 ami biMMh of indoawjr eloDe would aeon 
 nadce the eouotry pajpalocta end weelthj. 
 XlMiproaeoation of this boaiittas on • harfe 
 aoHR' would aoon call into exiatenee a large 
 mercantile ntaiine, for timber being a 
 balky oommbdity. required e larger ton- 
 aiage for tnuuporteuon. It waa thia 
 induatry alone that had made New 
 Brunswick aeoond only to Nova JSootia 
 in the tonnage it possessed (bear, 
 hear). British Columbia ia Imown 
 to contain ooal formations of immense 
 extent ThOT need not be told of the 
 ▼alue of ooal as a aourc. of national 
 wealth : it was one of the first requisites of 
 manufacturing lucoesi^ and one of the 
 ohief elements of general oommeroial 
 prosperity. Its ooal alone would make 
 British G^umbia a Taluable aquiaiticm even 
 to a country not requiring a Pacific sea* 
 board. The demand for c<Md in the North 
 Pacific was aaid to be rery great, and the 
 full development of that rich resource 
 could not be much longw retarded. Coal 
 also being a bulky artiole would give em- 
 ployment to a large number of shipa; 
 'thereby encouraging ahip bniMini^ and 
 hrin^g hato existenoe a large amount of 
 tmuMge. Hia hon. firienda fttxu Nom 
 Seotia woold admit what the ooel trade of 
 that Piovinoe had done to make them the 
 largest ship owning oommunity in the 
 woild in proportion to popoletioii (hear, 
 hear). llMn copper abounded in the 
 colony, and also magnetioiroaore. marble^ 
 limestone, sandstone, Ao. Its gud fielda 
 had a world-wide ; reputation. The 
 export of that preoiona metal had 
 beeh computed in some years to ex- 
 ceed 14,000^000. lU fisheries were al- 
 most equal to their own, and are destined 
 to becmne sn important item of oom- 
 meroe. The pemle of California, Ifexioo, 
 and those oountnes on the west coast of 
 South America, would be larger oonsumers 
 of that article than Spain, Italy, and the 
 Braali^ which now aflibirded to the Atlantk 
 ProTinces so large a market. Besides, no 
 place on this continent was better situated 
 for the proseouti<m of the whale and seal 
 fisherie/ than British Columbia. This was 
 anotb/r branch of industrial wealth that 
 would tend toward the building up (tf that 
 favoured colony as a Karitime State, ulti- 
 mately destined to compete for the carry- 
 ing trade of the Fadflo^ especially between 
 Asia and America (hear, hear). It was here 
 worthy of remark that while ib» prosperity 
 of Nova Scotia depended largely on its 
 coal nnd fiih, thnt of New Brunswick 
 
 ehiefly upon its lumbw. that of New- 
 foundland wholly on iU fish, British Co- 
 lumbia oombined «U these elemmits of 
 wealth, and many more, thtf pos- 
 session of whisli had erer been a 
 source of national prosperity (hear, hear). 
 But great as may. be the resources of 
 that ookmy.i and deaiiable as would be its 
 aoquiaition mr the saks of thoae resources, 
 it was aa a Paoifio «aea-board that Brit- 
 ish Columbia waa inTaluaUe to the Do- 
 minion and the Empire. What would 
 not tlm United Statea give tot its posaes- 
 sion in order to . shut out (Janada and 
 Britain from the possibility of becoming 
 their rivala in the trade and oommeroe of 
 thft PadfioT A vary few years ago an 
 able writer in the (3alifomi» press spoke 
 thus of the coming struggle between those 
 two oountries for "the trade of the East, 
 and the empira of the seas" :— 
 
 "TbatBnglandhM great purposes toeflbct ii> 
 this part oflbe world, Is, no doubt true; that alio 
 ha«frand presents on fi»t, looking to a Uuton of 
 her North Amerlean Ooloiilea, and the opening 
 otablghwaT' fitnnooeaa to ocean, she does not 
 keek to dligiilse. That these new letUoroents 
 are yet to oeeome oompetlton Ibr the trade or 
 the eastt ijt i»t for the eammteroM mMrmmvai vf 
 M« Aof^ltwerenieleestodenjr. *^ *_* But, 
 however, we may regard the tujlvent of England 
 upon our ehorea, oi whatever esUmate we may 
 set on the valneoT her poeaemlona In thlsquarter, 
 one tbtog Is certain, we have now got to meet 
 heron this side oftne giobe as we have met her 
 on the other : and enenuntaring her enternrUe 
 and 'sapttal, her pcaetical, patient Industry and 
 peralstenoe of purpose, dlsjmte with her for the 
 irsrie or the extend the empire of I he seas." 
 
 When intelligent foreigners ware wo 
 early alive to the inevitable rivalry here 
 mdioated, waa itnok tfan* that they abouki 
 be awake to th*ir duty and hiterestst 
 Kngland atill maiatained her suiwemacy 
 on the ooean, daily diatanoing all her 
 rivals. Bntmay not even they, one of Xng- 
 hmd'a dependenoiea, venture to dispute 
 the empire of the aeas with^mir ambiUous 
 nei^bonra f When the Domiaioo controls 
 500 milies of sea-ooaaton the Pacific, and 
 more than doaUe thiit extent on the 
 Atlantic, with natural reaooroas and com- 
 mercial neoesaiUea to call into exiatenoe • 
 mercantile marine t with the greatest faci- 
 lities in the world for ship building, and a^ 
 policy removing all restrfotions and taxa- 
 tion from that enterprise, who oould doubt 
 the result? He recolleoted reading last 
 ymr in a leading oommeroial journal of 
 New York an aue review of this subject, 
 in whioh the writer prediotel with regret, 
 that the Dommlon of Canada, already 
 third or fourth on the -list of maritime 
 States, would in the beginning of the next 
 century be the peatest mariume power On 
 the Globe (cheers). Such being toe value 
 and advantage of the territory proposed to 
 be annexed to this country, the question 
 arose whether in view of the policy to- 
 which the Dominion was committed,, and 
 the absolute necessity, politically and com- 
 
 Parl 
 undi 
 the 
 to ] 
 thisi 
 the I 
 of B 
 not 
 derti 
 
 iiiiHi 
 
162 
 
 1 of New- 
 tritiah Co- 
 aoMoji* of 
 
 thtf pot- 
 been a 
 leer, hew), 
 ■oaroes of 
 rouldbeito 
 
 rewraraes, 
 
 thai Brit- 
 U> the Do- 
 hkl woal«l 
 riUpoiMB- 
 uuda end 
 if becoming 
 Mnmeroeof 
 ua ego en 
 preu apoke 
 iween those 
 if the Eut, 
 
 • toeflbct In 
 ru«; UiatBUo 
 toaVAtonof 
 1 tbe opening: 
 ■he doe* not 
 r tetUoments 
 r the trade of 
 
 at of lEnglnnd 
 mate we may 
 tnthlsqusurter, 
 r ipt to meet 
 lieYe met her 
 tier enterprtae 
 ; Induftiy end 
 th her Ibr the 
 iTlheMM." 
 ut were so 
 rinlry here 
 theytfaoold 
 d intereetet 
 fr lapremiM^ 
 Bing ell her 
 r, ooA of Xng- 
 e todkpnte 
 •eirembiUoas 
 ntonooatrole 
 ) Paoific,and 
 tent on the 
 roe* and com- 
 
 esiatenoea 
 matest feci- 
 lUdfaig, anda 
 M end taza- 
 ooottld doubt I 
 
 reading but 
 
 kl journal of 
 
 thia subject, 
 
 1 with regret, 
 ■dis already 
 ', of maritime 
 u( of the next 
 ^e power On 
 ting Uie value 
 ry proposed to 
 
 the question 
 the policy to 
 mmitted^ and 
 loally and com- 
 
 163 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 Ib4 
 
 meroiUly, of securing a aea board on the 
 Facidc, they were asked to payjtoo high a 
 price for their object He did not tliink 
 there could be much diaaatis&ction with 
 the general terms of the arrangement ; the 
 only real ot(jeotion was to the great outlay 
 inooimezion with the Paoifio Kailway. Pas- 
 sing oTer for the present the sulyect of the 
 railway, it did not appear to him that the 
 terms agreed on, altnough certainly liber- 
 al as they ought to be, oontaiped any- 
 thing unreasonable. He did not thimc 
 there was anything to complain of in fix- 
 ing the population at 60,000, even if it 
 were sometliing less. The financial 
 arrangements had, doubtless, been settled 
 on accurate intormation. and a full inres- 
 tigaiioh of the wants and circumstances of 
 the colony. If the present tariff of 
 British Columbia was continued,the Domi- 
 nion would lose nothing, but allowing for 
 a change to the tariff of Canada after 
 Union, which was in the option of the 
 Local Legislature and, no doubt, 
 would be made, still if the country 
 became at all populated they would lose 
 nothing. The public works and serTices 
 tttipuLited to be undertaken appeared 
 proper and necessary. Neither did he 
 consider that any alarm need be felt from 
 giving to British Columbia a larger repre- 
 sentation in the Senate and House of Com- 
 mons tlum its present population would 
 Justify. The same compromise had been 
 extended,' although not to the same ex- 
 tenjt, to Prince Edward Island, Newfound- 
 land and Manitoba. But the .population 
 would soon become equal to the repre 
 sentation, which in 1081 would be arranged 
 on the' basis of the British North AmOiioa 
 Act. There was nothing to fear trom the 
 presence, tem|K>r«rily, of two or three 
 more members in this Parliament either 
 from British Columbia or Manitoba than 
 they wer« at present s ^y entitled to ; 
 they could not unfairly iaSuence the de- 
 cision of Parliament (hear, hear). It 
 could not be denied the great stumbling- 
 block in the negotiations submitted to 
 Parliament for approval was the gigantic 
 undertaking to oonnecs the -Paoitio with 
 the Atlantic by railway, a work estimated 
 to require over $100,000,000. To look at 
 this great project simply as a portion of 
 the terms offered to secure the admisiiion 
 of British Columbia into the Union, was 
 not viewing it in a fair light. True the un- 
 dertaking was noit assumed in cotmection 
 with the terms agreed upon with that 
 colony, but it was because it could not 
 sooner be assumed— it could not be con- 
 templated while BritishColumbiaremained 
 out of the Union, and Canada had no sea- 
 boaitl on the Pacific It was absurd— it 
 was purely factious, to look upon this 
 great national highway simply ut a British 
 
 Columbian aflair ; it was subject alike of 
 Dominion and Imperial intereat. It was 
 equally abaurd to say they were asked to 
 build this railway to secure the annexation 
 of that colony. The reverse of that 
 proposition was nearer the truth. The 
 railway was to be built because it had 
 become practicable b^ the agreement of 
 British Columbia to jom the Union, there- 
 by giving ttie Dominion control of all the 
 country between the Atlantic and Pacific 
 oceans required for its construction. There 
 could be little doubt that they possessed 
 the -country that afforded the best route 
 for an interoceanic railway. 
 
 (Mr. Miller here cited various autho- 
 rities to show the feasibility of a railway 
 across British territory— its advantages 
 over every other line that could be built 
 on the continent— its proroects of becom- 
 ing the highway for traffic and travel 
 between Europe and A«ia, and also show- 
 ing how this means of communication had 
 hitherto been neglected, partly in conse- 
 quence of the efiorts to find a water com- 
 munication between the . two oceans 
 through the North West passage, forever 
 abandoned for all practical purposes). 
 
 It could not be denied, however that the 
 proposition to build this railway would 
 startle the most reckless, if it meant to 
 tax the people of this country to the 
 extent of f 100.000,000 for such a purpose 
 (hear, hear). No public xt»n among them 
 would dream of anything so visionary and 
 impossible as that of doubling the debt of 
 the Dominion for this single undertaking 
 within the next ten yean. Canada, in 
 agreeing to secure the construction of this 
 railway, meant nothing of the kind. It 
 was not necessary and could not be ex- 
 pected from them; they .would be 
 required be i'elt confident to do only their 
 fair share. A railway aor<»s the continent 
 on British soil was as much an Imperial as 
 a Dominion necessity. There was no doubt 
 that England so regarded it. The lead- 
 ing minds of the Empire had unmistake- 
 ably given their opinion on the high nation- 
 al character of the work. From among a 
 host of others, he would quote Lord Bury,, 
 who had given much attention to this sub- 
 ject, and who, some years ago, before Uie 
 construction of the American Pacific Rail- 
 way, the completion of which bad given 
 double force to bis language, said : 
 
 "Our trade In the Pacldc Ocunu' with China 
 and wItU India, must ultlmnt«ly be carried on 
 through our North American iioraesslons ; at 
 atuf rate oht poliUeal and eommercbtt lupremac)/ 
 wtU have utterly departed from u* if we neglect that 
 very great and important eontiderattori, itnd If wc 
 lurto caro' out, to Ite funeit extent, the prlnd. 
 pal advanta^BH which the country oHera to us 
 and which we have only to B^retoh out our 
 hands to take advantage of." 
 
 Perhaps there never was a 
 time when political reasons rendered 
 
 I 
 
■•^wpp 
 
 
 M 
 
 III 
 
 
 : i 
 
 166 
 
 \ 
 
 British 
 
 [April 3, 1871.j 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 166 
 
 the completion of > this great 
 iDter-obeanic highway to important to 
 'Eogland. If ''the signs of the times", 
 -floiu4 be relied on, at no distant day, her' 
 supremacy, it maintained at all, 
 as he . h<^d it wonld be main- 
 tained, -will be maintaiiied after a, desper- 
 ate straggle. In that etenty what wonld 
 be tlie whole ^rat of thia road to the ad- 
 rantagee ii would afbrd, and tiw lamitttMi' 
 itwo«lda«?ethe BupLret OunUbeaop 
 poaed that British Statesmen ai<e not 
 alire to these condderatioas, atid what 
 has monev ever been to Sn^aad irtMn 'her 
 honour, her interests, or lier potrw has 
 been concerned T That when the time came, 
 Sngland would do her duij, and do 
 It geneifously, in this great national enter- 
 priiey they might safely beliere. The im- 
 portance of tms railpty is strongly put in 
 an article published some time ago in the 
 Monti/ Market Jieoiew, from which he would 
 read an extract : — 
 
 "That under thcao clrcumatancea tho railway 
 will be made, Booncr or later, there can bo no 
 doubt. With InlurosU ko nutneroiio, so vast, and 
 with Rucli incaim iiicommand, the dinicully of 
 . constructing this Uiidstth's Uay Kiillway oughtto 
 assume the must moderate propfirllonH. Ureat 
 Britain. Europe, Ciinadii, BrItlRh Columbia, Now 
 Zealand, Aaitralia, the Hudson's Bay Company, 
 and the Inlernaiionul Financial 8o<;icty. all 
 want tho Rnllw.T.y, and would nain by the Rail- 
 way, and it would be amazing, ir with such Inter- 
 ests and such resources. It o^nld not be made 
 and made properly. In India, State (^arantees 
 had been Kiven, and are promised u|>nn Rail- 
 way capiti^l, sumeleut loconstrui'tthls line ten 
 times over; and it is a question whether any 
 one Indian Railway is more useful than this 
 even for state purposes." 
 
 The certainty of England assiiUng, 
 either by guarantee o> otherwise, 
 in this great work being clear, what he 
 asked was the true position of the people 
 of Canada regarding it T They had lat«sly 
 acquired the North West as for as the 
 Bocky Mountain?, Unless certain, and 
 quick communication #ith that territory 
 oould be afibrded, immigrants co .Id not 
 be expected to go there ; the country 
 would remain unsettled, and instead of 
 being a source of wealth, would continue 
 a burden on the Pominion, They could 
 not shirk their duty with regard to that 
 great extent of country, unlets they were 
 w;lling to admit tbiit tbey, four ibillions of 
 the descendants of the hirsute races that 
 in modern times had led the civilization 
 of the world, were as unequal to its 
 goTernment as the blighting monopoly 
 they h&d superceded (hear, hear). That 
 country was comparatively valueless, t^- 
 less connected with the rest ot tha Do- 
 minion by railway. Therefore, they would 
 be obliged, as the Postmaster General had 
 correctly said, to construct the 
 greater po.-tion of the Paciiio Kaiiway in 
 order to open up and colonize thit newly 
 acfjuired territory, .although British Colum- 
 
 %M, remained out of the Union. But in . 
 thia view the work would not be looked 
 upon as a work of Imperial interesti de- 
 seri^g Imperial aid. By uniting British 
 Colnmbia and starting the railway as a 
 wtMkof national neoessity; 'as a wwk of 
 the highest IflUMfrial oonoem, it would 
 BMoretfaeooinmnftttee and assistanoe of 
 the Empire. If G^qada oould secure a 
 fidrmeMnre of Uoiperial support, the rest 
 was oertainly 'wHhin her'means. They had 
 at their dikposal' limitlnw quantities of 
 rich Inds, the value of whieh wonld be 
 greatly enhaaoed by this railway. 
 
 (Kere Mr. Miller showed the extent and 
 value of the land at the disposal of the 
 Government to construct tiie railway, the 
 advantaips of the ootmtry over the Ime of 
 the American Pacific Railway, the proba- 
 bility that only a very small subsidy from 
 the Government wotdd be requured, which 
 would be rendered smaller bv the probable 
 giuuantee of the Imperial Government, 
 makmg the proposed liability a very difi- 
 erent thing nrom what it was represented 
 to be by the opponents, of the measure). 
 
 It maybe said, that it was unwise to bind 
 themselves to the completion of this work 
 within ten years. But they saw more 
 ch I nges, more great results achieved, m 
 a de<»de now, ttian in aoentury a hundred 
 years ago ; to make the time longer would 
 look like not being in earnest, and he 
 trusted the Government were in earnest in 
 this great work. It had also been said 
 that the Maritimis Provinces had no inter- 
 est in' the union of British Columbia and 
 the oonstruetion of the railway. He re- 
 padiatod on behalf of the Provinoe he re- 
 
 ' presented, an idea so narrow and sMoUooal 
 (hear, hear). Whatever benefited any 
 portion of this Domiirion, benefited every 
 portion of it (cheers.) The people of Nova 
 Scotia were as much interested in the 
 perfection of your canal system as 
 the people of Ontario. They should 
 not be told that because no portion of 
 this road was required to be built in Nova 
 Scotia, they had no interest in it. As the 
 wharf of this Dominion, Nova Scotia had 
 an interest in everything that tended to 
 develope the great territory of British 
 
 i America behind it. Nova Scotia was as 
 much interested as Vancouver island in 
 the completion of the inter-oceanic railway, 
 and would benefit as much from it (hear, 
 hear). Ualifax might, after this road was 
 bmlt, look forward to become the great 
 Atlantic depot of the trade of the East — a 
 trade that hod enriche<i, in ancient and 
 modern times, every country that bad pos- 
 sessed it. The author of an able work of 
 this subject spoke of this trade and its 
 adviniuges to those that h«d ever secured 
 it in this wav. 
 
 pardoi 
 
 five; 
 
 uttera 
 
 Provhi 
 
 weU 
 
 edtol 
 
 five ye 
 
 Novel 
 
 moUot 
 
 "a un 
 
 C'anadi 
 
 would 
 
 from I 
 
 diversi 
 
 unlimi 
 
 imagin 
 
 years I 
 
 in the 
 
 his hui 
 
 vote ir 
 
 de.<!ire( 
 
 good 
 
 throug 
 
 the lo 
 
 popula 
 
 had til 
 
 course 
 
166 
 f ■ 
 1. But in . 
 b« looked 
 ■jtrtitt, d«- „ V 
 ing British 
 Omaif M a 
 a wwk of 
 L it would 
 iittoDoe of 
 d secure a 
 
 ^ the rest 
 hey had 
 lantities of 
 I would be 
 
 extent and 
 xid of the 
 railway, the 
 ' the Ime of 
 the proba- 
 ubsidy from 
 lired, which 
 he probable 
 ioTemment, 
 r a Tory dift- 
 represented 
 & measure). 
 
 iwise to bind 
 of this work 
 f saw more 
 achieved, m 
 ry a hundred 
 longer would 
 lest, and he 
 in earnest in 
 io been said 
 pMd no inter- 
 Bblumbia and 
 my. He re- 
 sTinoe he re< 
 md sAClioiial 
 mefited any 
 nefited every 
 iople of Nova 
 'ested in the 
 
 system as 
 Chey should 
 lo portion of 
 built in Nova 
 n it. As the 
 a Scotia had 
 lat tended to 
 ry of British 
 Jcotia was as 
 ver island in 
 leanic railway, 
 rom it (hear, 
 this road was 
 me ihe great 
 if the East— a 
 
 ancient and 
 that bad pos- 
 1 able work of 
 trade and its 
 I ever secured 
 
 167 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.]. 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 16» 
 
 " Control of trade {rltli the ea«t^a« b«en covet- 
 .eil ON u prlinu soiirco of wealth by wes^rn har' 
 Uoni from the remottRt antiquity. Mercantile 
 
 oommunlUeH ensagetlfttwn age looge in ciurnrtng 
 eoRtom'rrelKbt, nave Invhrmbiy proMpcrtfcl from 
 the uu(lert)iklng, and the'gnuideat cities uf 
 
 eoRtom'rrelKbt, tiaTe Invhrthbiy proM] 
 
 the uudertiiklng, and the' grand eai. ....... ». 
 
 ancient and modem tlmea, have owed much of 
 their lulendor to the Ikot orthU rt«h trafflo p«M- 
 Ing throufh them. The Tyii..ns, Ofeeka, 
 Homans, HanMiens. Venettana, Portuguese, 
 Dutch, and En^lsh afford monumental tntMror 
 these statements." 
 
 He trusted that before many yean the 
 Dominion of Canada would fUmista another 
 monuinental poof of the statement of that 
 writer. He believed, with the completion 
 of railway communication between the 
 Atlantic and Pacific, Nova Scotia would 
 occupy one of the proudest and most pros* 
 perbtu ]K>sitions in North America, and 
 that the realisation of this scheme pre- 
 sented to that Province a future that the 
 imagination oould not exaggerate. If 
 Nova Scotia were disposed to be selfish 
 a'jd sectional— if its people were unfit to 
 take a broad national view of a great sub- 
 ject affecting the whole country — he would 
 still, on the most selfish and sectional con- 
 siderations -as a representative of that 
 Province, advqcate the construction of this 
 railway. If they could secure for this line 
 the trade of the East ; if Halifax, with its 
 harbour capable of accommodating the 
 shipping of all the world, were to become 
 the Atlantic depot of that trade, what 
 dream could exaggerate the future 
 wealth and greatness that were 
 in store for it (cheers) 7 
 
 In conoludmg his observations, he could 
 not help renuricing on aooinoidence in his 
 own connexion with the great question of 
 Confederation, which the House would 
 pardon him for referring to. On this dikj 
 five years, he had by Us action and hia 
 utterances in the Legislature of his native 
 Province, mstked an epoch in its history, 
 well in the recollection of many who listen 
 ed to him (bear, hear). On this very day 
 five years i^^, he had, in the Assembly of 
 Nova Scotia, when making an important 
 motion regarding Confederation, said that 
 << a union of the Maritime Provinces with 
 Cuiada and the great Country beyond 
 would give them a territory extending 
 from the Atlantic to the Pacifto, with all the 
 diversified resoources necessary to the most 
 unlimited material progress." Uo little 
 imagined on that day that exactly five 
 years afterwards he would be called upon 
 in the Parliament of this Dominion to raise 
 hia humble voice, and give hia humble 
 vote in favour of the great project he then 
 desired to see accomplished. Through 
 good report and through evil report, 
 through obloquy and mis-representation, 
 the loss of friends and the sacrifice of 
 [popularity and personal advantages, he 
 had never doubted the wisdom of the 
 course he h<\d on that day adopted, or re- 
 
 gretted it. In their political horizon h» 
 saw no. sign to warrant despondency or re- 
 gret; but in the present position and 
 prospects of this oountry, he saw much- 
 room for hope, much reason for gratitude, 
 and much cause for honest pride (hear, 
 hear). The friends of union had nothing 
 to regret or to be ashamed of, and he 
 trusted the day was not fitr distant when, 
 by the admission of Niswfoundland and 
 Ilrince Edward Island, the people of the 
 Dominion would be called upon to cole' 
 bmtfe the completion of the noble edifice- 
 of British North American Union (pro- 
 longed cheers). 
 
 Hon. Mr. SANBOBN— One cannot fall to- 
 admire the enthusiasm which has eharac- 
 .terized the speech of the hon. member 
 ]who had just sat down. When I recall 
 jhis remarks I cannot help thinking of ant 
 /observation once made by the late Lord^ 
 \Elgin, that a Yankee would not be con- 
 tent with the Garden of Eden but would 
 go Westward. I think if the hon. mem- 
 ber lives to see his aspirations realized, 
 and thi«> in.ter-oceanio railway extended' 
 to the Pacitio, he will feel, as Alexander of 
 old, when he wept because there were no 
 more worlds for him to conquer ; for he 
 will have come to the waters of the Pacific- 
 and there is. no more land westward for- 
 him to annex. The subject now before u» 
 presents itself in three aspects : First, 
 the propriety of the imion of Britis h Co- 
 lumbia; secondly, the mode of union f. 
 and thirdly, the linaneial arrangement 
 by which that imion is to be obtained. K 
 will address myself first to the second pro- 
 position, because it is the ont- most easy to- 
 dispoee of. ' I am now referring to the- 
 constitutional aspect of the question as it 
 presents itself to my mind. When the- 
 Bill with respect tc Manitoba was before 
 us last rear, 1 doubted the constitution- 
 ality of our proceedings at the time. It. 
 seems to me that the Government have 
 been all the time taking an erroneous - 
 course. They failed to ssk for an address 
 in the case bf Rupert's Land, whereas novr 
 they adopt that mode. But I see a difficulty 
 connected with this question. There is a 
 stipulation in the British North America 
 Act which does not enable us to proceed 
 simply by address for the purpose of 
 admitting British Ck>lumbia into the Union. 
 The 146th clause is as follows : « It should' 
 be lawful for the Queen, by and with the 
 advice of Her Majesty's Most Honorable 
 Privy Council, on addresses from the 
 excuses of tho Parliament of Canada, and 
 from the Houses of the respective legisla- 
 tures of the colonies or Provinces of New- 
 foundland, Princo Edward Island and Brit- 
 ish Columbia, to admit those colonies or 
 Provinces, or any of them, into the Union j 
 and on address from the Houses of the 
 
169 
 
 British 
 
 April 8, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 170 
 
 
 i & ■ 
 
 ^l^ii 
 
 Parliiunent of Canada to admit Bupert's 
 land and the North Weatern territsry, or 
 either of them into the Union, on tuoh 
 terms and conditions in eaiih oaae •• are 
 in the addressee expressed, and as the 
 Queen thinks fit to approve, snlgeot to the 
 proTisJons of this Aot ; and the proTisious 
 of anv Order in Oonnoii in that behalf, 
 shall have effect as if ';.hef had been anaot* 
 edby.theParliate«ntof th» United King' 
 dom of Great Britain and Irriand." NovTt 
 to my mind, we will only be able to admit 
 Biritish Columbia on the terms of the Impe- 
 rial Act. Tb«n,Ifindin the nexi danso 
 the following with respect to the appoint- 
 ment of Senators : "In oa«9of tfa* admis- 
 sion of Newfoundland and Prince Edward 
 Islani, or either of them, eaiah shall be 
 entitled to a representation in the Senate 
 of Canada of four members and (notwith- 
 standing anything in this Aot) in case of 
 the admission of Newfoundland, their nor- 
 mal number of Henatprs shall be seventy- 
 '.siz-'^nd their maximum number shul 
 be eighty two, &o." I find no provision 
 whatever in the Ac < for ,the appointment 
 of Senators from British Columbia, and 
 when this addrf«s is carried before the 
 Queen in Council, it will be impossible to 
 name the Senators without an Imperial 
 Statute. Here the maximum number of 
 Senators is tixedAt 82 after the admission 
 of Prince Edwoira Island and Newfound- 
 land, aiul there is no mention whatever of 
 any power given to ■ appoint Senators for 
 Brituh Colun]A)ia. In the next place, with 
 respect to tiie representation, referring to 
 the sections of the British North America 
 Act, we find a certain nimiber provided 
 for a certain population— ft oertain number 
 for Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia and New 
 Brunswick, according to peculation. This 
 representation ia to be increased on cer- 
 tam conditions. ^A certain proportional 
 rate in Quebec is ip fix the rate in the otlier 
 Provinces. Under the present arrange- 
 ments six represetitatives are given to 
 Brituh Columbia in the House of Com- 
 mons. This i^ in direct contravention of 
 the Constitution and destroys the equili- 
 brium which was established in the Aot. I 
 now come to consider the propriety of 
 the admission of British Columbia. I have 
 not had the goodifortune — if it is a good 
 fortune — ^to have' been among those who 
 were instrumental in assisting in the in- 
 fancy of Confederation. However, if all 
 the brilliant prospecta depicted by the hon. 
 member are to be realized — iC. we are to 
 become that great ni|<tion of which we 
 are told ; then Ircgoioe that we are getting 
 '' along so well, thou^li I have not had the 
 honour of' participating in the inaugur»- . 
 lion of the scheme, anal shall rejoice to be 
 BO agreeably disappointed. After this Con- 
 federation beoaihe an accomplished fact, I 
 
 declared that I was pr^Mured to accept it 
 and do all in my power to strengthen it. 
 I still entertain tbes^ sentiments, and 
 desire to ezpresa them tmreservedly. 
 1 am prepared to admit that we 
 looked forward to the admission of 
 British Columbia as a part of the Con- 
 federation achemie, and perhi^ communi- 
 cation with the Paoifio by means ef an 
 intarooeimio Bailwajr. But whilst I make 
 tlui' statement i|i good faith and wish most 
 earnestly to Be« this country. boUt' up and 
 stiengtbened I am not prepared to wander 
 bUnd^ into sohemes whion, in my judg- 
 ment, w* aie not capable jol canying 
 oat British Columbia was Ixpeoted to 
 oome iuto Confedemtion, but it moat be 
 remembered that in aocomplishing this 
 uni<m there were other objecte— ob^tsof 
 a more material interes^^kept m view 
 and intended to be first carried out within 
 the range Of cor ability. For instancy the 
 oompletion of our oanal system and the 
 improvement of cmnmunioation between 
 the existing Provinoee, the development 
 of our trade and commerce, the settle- 
 ment of the waste luxlsof the countoy 
 which we now po s sess. Now the main 
 question on this case is a question of 
 policy. Before proceeding to this, I would 
 remark that there is something very sig- 
 nificant in our political state. The hon: 
 gentlemim who has just sat down declared 
 that it was fd the interest of the British 
 Empire that this raUwar should be built — 
 that we should aeoomplish this work and 
 develope oar resouroM in order io consoli- 
 date British power on this oontinent. But 
 do we find a single dollar, assiatMace-in 
 any shape whatever oonlriboted'or pro- 
 mised by the llmptrsT' No, we do not 
 even ftod-tiiftV anything has been asked. 
 In the case of the Interoolonial| Railway 
 we had the guarantee of the Britiah Gov- 
 ernment. Now we are asked to extend 
 that road across the oontinent to tiie 
 shores of the Pacific, and in that way hold 
 up British .power in Amerioi. Was that 
 toe object which brought these Provinces 
 together? If that were the case, then we 
 have a right to expect assistance from th^ 
 British Government in aocomplishing this 
 great work. Buli what do we really see 
 Ming on? We are told that we shall have 
 uie protection of Great Britain in case of 
 difficulty, and yet Uie troops are re- 
 moved, and we have evidences before 
 us to which we uannot be blind, that we 
 are left in this Confederation entirely 
 to ourselves. Tbough still a colony, we 
 ore extending our teriitory westward to 
 thel'aoifio and undertaking all the re- 
 smmsibilities of these great enterprises, 
 children as we are, we assume the obliga- 
 tions of an independent nationality, with- 
 out the security and countenance we should 
 
170 
 
 accept it 
 ingtheQ it. 
 lentt, and 
 vBerredly. 
 
 tlut we 
 liMMoa of 
 
 the Con- 
 oomtnuni- 
 iu» •f «Q 
 Lit I make 
 LwiihioMt 
 at' up and 
 Itomnder 
 
 toy jttdg- 
 >r oanying 
 zpeeted to 
 it muat be 
 UMng tbia 
 H-obJeoUof 
 tpt in view 
 , out within 
 istano^ the 
 in and the 
 m between 
 ATelopment 
 the lettle- 
 fche country 
 r the main 
 question of 
 this, I would 
 Qg verysig- 
 . The hon: 
 wn declared 
 ' the British 
 d be built — 
 ia work and 
 tr to oonsoU- 
 ttnent. But 
 tau«ta|t£»'in 
 tied or pro- 
 , we do not 
 been aaked. 
 niallBulway 
 
 Briiwh GOT- 
 d to extend 
 lent to the 
 latway hold 
 i. Was that 
 se FroTinoes 
 ■se, then we 
 nc«3 from tbd' 
 ipliahing this 
 re really see 
 we shall have 
 a in case of 
 oops are re- 
 lenoes before 
 Lind, that we 
 ktion entirely 
 a colony, we 
 
 westward to 
 r all the re- 
 b enterprises, 
 le tiie obliga- 
 lonality, with 
 mce we should 
 
 171 
 
 British 
 
 [SEIJATE.j 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 172 
 
 hayeArom the Parent State. It is not for 
 me to oomplain of this, but I point out 
 the fiwts for your careM consideration. 
 Colonies, it shoukl be remembered, are 
 but aUaehi$ to the empire, under the agia 
 of the SUte from which tiier deriTe their 
 existence. Can we reconcile tiie fact of 
 andertmkinil soah national respMisibilities, 
 with our existing pt^tioal conditions. Itia 
 not of the nature of Colonies to be aggres* 
 RiTt. It never has been so. Thisisthe 
 attribute of the nation; this I 
 make no oomphdnt of but I note 
 the fact, and aa we say in law, may act of 
 it. The policy of Confederation now bsteg 
 carried out «a indicated by Imperial pro- 
 ceedings and our Colonial movements is 
 that we are to become an independent na- 
 tion. The speech of the Hon. Postmas- 
 ter General was certainly as argumenta- 
 tive and masterly an exposition of the 
 policy of the Government as could be ex- 
 peoted fhim one of its members. It has 
 been truly said by that hon. gentleman 
 that no one has opposed the admimion of 
 British Columbia mto the Union. All of 
 us seem to come to one point, and that is, 
 as to the propriety of the Union. I be- 
 lieve it is ft necessity if we are to be- 
 come a nationality -that we should hold 
 out the hatid of friendship to the other 
 Provinces. But because I feel this, it 
 dees not follow that I am to accept the 
 Union on any terns. Here we are giving 
 British Columbia a representation oul«^de 
 of the principle applied to the other scctidns 
 oftheDou&ionw The advooatee of tps 
 Union tell us that there are some 10,000 or 
 12^000 whites and 50,000 Indians, faiiib« 
 oountrv; but reading Dr. Buttray's wArk, 
 the Indian population in 1867 is put ^own 
 at 16,000. A oonsiderable /^' difibr- 
 enoe between the two estimates. 
 In presenting this matter betore lis in the 
 light of • treaty, the Govemnl|ent are 
 placing us in a veiy unfortunate position. 
 A country like this, enjoj^og^fespOnsible 
 Government and representative institu- 
 tions for many years— with a superior 
 system of colleges and schools— with a 
 territory and resources in a high condition 
 of development— is placed in the situa- 
 tion of a minor Province in this question. 
 It was due to us as the Urger, older, and 
 more enerienced country that we should 
 have had the matter first submitted to us. 
 British Columbia has no responsible Gov- 
 ernment — tfiere is a Legislative Council, 
 only a portion of which is elective. The 
 Government is virtually a one man power 
 —virtually a despotism. However, that 
 Government arranges the terms of Union 
 with the Dominion of Canada, and then the 
 whole scheme is brought before us, and we 
 are told that<it is a treaty which we cannot 
 alter or amend. Such n course is humili- 
 
 ating to the Dominion of Canada. But 
 the people of British America do not ap- 
 pear to consider it as a treaty, so far as 
 the;r are concerned, foir certaii^persons 
 have sent in a requisition, accordia|^o the 
 rettim before us, for some alterations in 
 the terms. Under these circumstances no 
 person can believe that we should not 
 alter or modify these terms, and present 
 them in that form which we think is most 
 
 Sit and reasonable. The government 
 ve taken a very large and imnecessary 
 r«anonstt>ility upon themselves, and have 
 endeavoured to tie the hanas of both 
 branches of Parliament so that they can- 
 not deal, as t^ey should, with these terms. 
 The hon. gentleman who has just taken 
 his seat has said that the only stumbling 
 block in hi* way was the Interoceanic Rail- 
 way, and I canbot for the life of me, see 
 that| he succeeded in removmg it, and 
 I must still believe that it remams in the 
 same place. He told us in most glowing 
 terms what would be the consequences of 
 building the railway, that we would 
 iind gold, co^I, and other min- 
 erals; but he did not tell us 
 how we are to get the hard cash to 
 build the railway. Now the Northern 
 Pacilic Railway may be considered, in 
 many respects, analogous to this railway. 
 Now I have before me the report of the 
 Chief Engineer, in 1867, and he estimates 
 the cost of the road from Duluth to Seat- 
 tle, the Padfic terminus, 1775 miles at 
 $140,377,000 in greenbacks. At that time 
 there would be $100,000,000 at least. 
 In his next report, made in 1870, the 
 Engineer savs: "In my report of 
 1867, to which I have referred, was made, 
 and an estimate of cost given of the entire 
 road baaed upon » general knowledge of 
 the country derived traax the represei)-, 
 tations of those who iiad pained over it.' 
 There waa, at that time, no date for an 
 estimate of cost of any pwtion of it from 
 actual survey. Since then the report of 
 Gen. Spalding hereto appended, had been 
 received of his surveys, with a view to an 
 estimate of cost have been made. His 
 estimate for this portion, 292 miles, is about 
 $15,000 permilOj naore than the estimate 
 for the same distance in my published 
 report. If the difference between the 
 actual and the estimated cost is as great 
 relatively on the remaining portion of the 
 road, the whole cost of the road will be 
 reduced to $125^000,000, and I think will 
 not much exctfect that amount if built with 
 care and judgment, and with means ade- 
 quate to its construction in the most 
 economical manner." That is about two 
 thirds of the length of our road, adding 
 one third, then, for our road, and taking 
 ten per cent, premium in gold in 1869, 
 we have the cost just $150,000,000 accord- 
 
^JW- 
 
 British 
 
 [April 3, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 174 
 
 i 
 
 \i'i\ 
 
 liiHi 
 
 fejit 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 dng to the report of the Engineer of the 
 Northern Paoitto. 
 
 Now with respect to our *biUty to m- 
 ■compIi»h^h« work. Thia> Kortbern C«^ 
 
 '«ifio wktf'uioorpontad in 1864^ end after 
 Jwring been for two yeera in the market 
 <we find the foUowing atatement made bgr 
 the sbareboldara. 
 
 "The oorpomiion otgepiyd iindw tliair 
 oharter in the aumaMir of IBMt aimI Mm 
 •deeplz impreaaed with th* importaiwt.iK 
 «the enterpriae, immertietely, i»Wff r a M 
 ■aeasurea to provid* ft>|MU for tk0 <KM|- 
 stouotionoi their road. But n^tiriMi- 
 standing the many taTOuimble protiMMia 
 in thoir charter, indixUng m Uben4 lufd_ 
 -frant, il was found impracf^ioable after tli* 
 
 imost diligent and persevenngeCforta to in. 
 
 ' duce capitaUats to embark m the enter* 
 prise." 
 
 The result waa that the Compuiy4idnot 
 .«et parties to invest in the work— they 
 mnm. tliat the land grant wee not aufficient. 
 With respect to the terms now proposed, 
 •we find the QoTemment promiae to oom- 
 anence the work within two and com- 
 plete it by ten years. The Oovemment 
 
 ■ -admit that they have made a mistake- 
 that is perfectly dear. Un no point, in 
 <my opinion, was the Postmaster General 
 led intb'iue h deep w at er as on. this. In 
 the other House, we find the leader of the 
 
 -^Jovernment coming forward and propos- 
 ing a resolution aa to the mode in wnieh 
 <the road is to be buUt. Noii:,J£ii>aJfiISi> 
 •of the original resolutions kre perfeoUy 
 •clear, why tiyandei^pkin theip afterwards. 
 The difficulty is that the reaolution inqnes. 
 4ion does not afifect our obligation. The 
 <GoTernment of their own,TOUtionpIed^ 
 tu to conatruot a railway within a oertaip 
 term of years. Oovemor Muagrare lets us' 
 >into the secret of the opinion, he and others 
 on British Columbia entertain with respect 
 to the arrangement. He says frankly that 
 they asked really more than they had a 
 right to expect. As my hon. friend from 
 St. John (Mr. Uaaen) said the other day, 1 
 cannot see how they had " the cheek " to 
 mi^e such a demand upon us. However 
 we voluntarily pledge ourselves, through 
 the OoTommeot, to build the railway. We 
 do not sny that we will try to get somebody 
 to build it, but we pledge ourselves to 
 construct it — ^we contract a solemn obli- 
 gation. My ben. friend, the Postmaster 
 Qeneral rarely cannot believe that we are 
 not bound literally to this pledge. If he 
 does, then he must consider us — I do not 
 like to use tiie word — certainly wanting m 
 common sense. If the Ppstmaster General 
 gives a promissory, note to any one, and it 
 is negociated and falls into the hands of a 
 third party. When it falls due, be says, I 
 did not promise to pay it absolutely in 
 three months. liut the law does no^ give 
 
 any such interpre^tion as that to coutracti. 
 If the Oovemment does not keep faith 
 in mattera of treaty, its name and honour 
 must anffer in the eatinwtioo of th« world. 
 Ido hot belifve that they will add to the 
 -Topntation of tUf eouatry by imitating a 
 a|stem whUk mmt of necmsity atanp us 
 wilfh Poaia iMffldj, fnn t))* vary bet that 
 He ymnot Wiai ow oWatifm- Tha Co«t- 
 maatav Qaaaral im iv*md tp tha pro- 
 ir4«i <tf tha vtMtl» and the giaat devatop- 
 ■ian.t9tthar(p>|ir«esoftniseDunt>y; but 
 Ihi^Tainaiiaaa(aiplaaQmpacison batwaan 
 tha debt 1^ th»Unitad mtm and our ovB. 
 Tha dfM pi Uml naita4 §««taa ww. w 
 tha »t of J^ownbarH im |9;Ma.9»lr 
 m, ot KI4).flp Mr iHMtd. TlM ravawialaat 
 •893,000,000. Tha.aurplua was 
 000. Now tha dabt of (Wda is 
 andirw«tiiddM5O.Q0aO0O to 
 the aioadai^t wa haya a dabt of f|230,000i- 
 000, aqud to |S^aOO,QOO^OUO for tb« 
 iTnitad Htataa. which hu) only just 
 emargad firom a long and most axpaoaiva 
 war. In old timear-aoma twenty years 
 ago — we ware accustomed to ba horrified 
 at tlvj azpanditura of a few millions, 
 whereas piow we are prepared at once to 
 conttaot obligations to tha extent of hun- 
 dreds of miUions. If tha Postmaster Qan- 
 eral waa unfortunate in any part of his 
 argament, it was when he came to refer to 
 the history of railway antarprises m this 
 country. Ha aays that thar have radound- 
 igdto th^ benadt of Canada. I am quite 
 
 SnparedJajl4ffil^..tbat. I bfure gre«t oon- 
 danoa in nwiays— theyvaM amihantly 
 oiviUaan. We have ppV hO|r«T«^ •>= 
 poidad 1100^000,000 on Uta oonatroetion 
 of these works. Gapita^ oama in largely 
 firom abroad, and thoaa wm invaatea it 
 hava never reoeiyed ona dollar for the in- 
 vestment When tha Gkand Trunk Bail- 
 way waa propoaad, we loaned ^£3,000 a mile. 
 Wa baa preferential aaourity on the 
 stock- wewara toUthat the road would 
 pay large dindends, but that fiulad 
 to turn out tha case. Than from time to 
 tima we were oallad apon to prop up tha. 
 undertaking and aa^titaad wa-didao. 
 Wa relieveaoor kian by aUowiagprafoian- 
 tud (MouriUaa to beplaoad bafora us. The 
 result is, that we hava a railway which is 
 certainly useful to tha oountry, but all the 
 capital haa been aunk, and tha aharehold- 
 ers have received no benefit frcmi it. Vfi 
 found some of them high in office— fiAie of 
 them still so— prominent in bringing for- 
 ward the scheme, and putting a glowing 
 prospectus before the English people. The 
 peome wlio built the road, who were per- 
 suaded into giving up their savings and 
 capital, were ladies and others, who had 
 been impoverished in consequence of the 
 inability of the Company to pay a single 
 dollar of profit. Does the Postmaster Gen- 
 
 be 
 
 pur 
 
 Icai 
 
174 
 
 coutrocK. 
 
 [id bonour 
 tb» world, 
 dd to tba 
 nitating a 
 r MtMopu* 
 
 p Ml* wo- 
 
 uniry; b«t 
 in iMtmwA 
 iidourowa- 
 
 ^ mim 90 
 
 mrplw WW 
 
 I 611UM9U1W 
 
 UO tat tba 
 oplj ju«t 
 It Mpewiv* 
 iiMty yiMn 
 I b« horriti«d 
 '«w miUioni, 
 id at ono« to 
 :t«at of hUQ- 
 tmait^' "*"• 
 part of his 
 ae to rofar to 
 ^es in this 
 AT* Mdoimd- 
 I «n quite 
 
 re gr«*t ••»• 
 
 I emiiMntiy 
 3(tynr*t, wr- 
 
 <y)n»lraotion 
 «• in Urnly 
 to inv**Ua it 
 Ur for th* in- 
 
 Troi* B«l- 
 £3,000 am>i«- 
 iritj on the 
 le foedwoiild 
 
 that f^wi 
 ffomtimeto 
 
 prop up the 
 ad wa-didao. 
 wingpreCuen- 
 •foi* us. The 
 Iway which is 
 try, but all the 
 the sbarehold- 
 fr«n it. We 
 offioe— «vJme of 
 t bringing for- 
 king a glowing 
 sh people. The 
 vbo were per- 
 r savings and 
 beta, who had 
 tquence of the 
 o pay a single 
 ostmaster Gen- 
 
 urs 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 176 
 
 t: 
 
 era! desire to see the stock taken up in ttie 
 ■ane way^ and the same results accrue 
 fMm the proposed raih^MUi. There is 
 MoUMr f*atar«> of tb* proposition i^hioh 
 ddes not present iMif more fhvourabhr to 
 ttyiaihd. W*aMitMdthMtb*resdlato 
 M built by pHtttf* Oompanies. I very 
 iiUnta liM^ «bii iterteid of UwHng it bdUt 
 MtUR ten yMre^ M win be adtaaded very 
 MWHy M oMI^r M Mit «Ii4 purposes of 
 fMlwte sptottlaiMv: W4 are told that if 
 «i« IBtik* Biiy Qlhaiifebi tUi tr«aty we mttst 
 MM it baottt* British OMambia for rtttifl- 
 Mtion. I do noi aee thit thb woidd be 
 tatflHM/ If we MA thai Ma U a prdje<il 
 iHat ii«tiioaM not«nMrt*ln, that it is tit 
 •o*><Mi*rocis Av this Mdtttry, then I main. 
 Mdnwe should tain MM only tx>nrse open 
 to M, ooMisteittt wMK our ditty to tlie 
 o6tiiitry; We shodld not undertake, as 
 iMneiit inen, What We c^annot see tre are 
 (>nMcred t^ftooedipUsh. None of us would 
 unaertake to inonr a debt or perform an 
 obligation Which i*e have ho prestat means 
 of actemplishing : and yet thi» is precise- 
 ly what lue GkrnMMiment are doing. If 
 wey tmst to the future to develop our 
 resehrees and enable us t6 perform our 
 obligation, the^ are trifling with Provi- 
 dttwe And not acting acterding to the 
 principles that sbeald govern thetr aetiolft. 
 British CcdumbU ha» a right to know What 
 weoan and ought to do— we should not 
 hbldottt hopes to her people which we 
 inay not be able to realize. We are told 
 that this work can be aooomplished by 
 moans of private ooMpanies, but I cannot 
 believe Bhy such company will be obtuned 
 when it is known that this road is to cost 
 #hst has been stated. If the company can 
 be found to tiAe atoek in thia road, we 
 may be sure it will n6t be long before it 
 will come to us and teU the Qovemment 
 that they must build it themselves. The 
 Postmaster Genend was unfortunate in his 
 remarks respecting public opinion on this 
 question. I did not read all the'news- 
 {Mpers, but I have seen a good nnny since 
 ^ subject oame up, and notice that very 
 glraive doubta are not only expressed in the 
 Gtobe, bat in one of the organs of the (iov- 
 enunent, the Toronto Tefe^qp^. that we 
 have made such a financial arrangement. 
 The local newspapers throughout the 
 oeuntry prettv generally admit that the 
 scheme is unjust to the Dominion. An- 
 ottter point wliich I must refer to is the 
 irohase of th«_ lands. Whilst the 
 livemment undertake to incur so enor- 
 mous an expenditure in connection 
 With the railway, they agre? to pay f lOO,. 
 
 000 y^ariy in consideration of the lands 
 advanced for the construction of that work. 
 Hon the Government could ever hive 
 entertained a proposition of that character, 
 
 1 cannot understand. If British Columbia 
 
 18 
 
 pur 
 
 has any interest in liaving this road built, 
 and uniting with Canada, surely she ought 
 to be willing to give up so much of her 
 territory aa will Be necessary for the pur- 
 pose of securing communication between 
 them and us. The more I consider the 
 financial features of the scheme, as res- 
 pects the ndlway, the more I see (ueir 
 unflili'aeM, ahd am oonvinced of my duty 
 to oppbM th«m. When ire ask fbr delay, 
 we uk told tblt if we do not act promptly, 
 #e diay Iba^ the oolotoy. British Colum- 
 bia is conit^cted with the same gredt coun- 
 try to which we belong. If the tJnited 
 States ahodld lay ih*fa' bonds upon it or 
 diAke any borgam with any body living in 
 the oolouy to annex it, the act on the 
 part of any one fn the colony would be 
 treason, and a^ resfoects the United States 
 a cause of war #itn England. All that we 
 need to do is to show our willingness to 
 receive British Columbia, and endeavour 
 to meiet her wishes conscientiously and 
 honestly, but within the measure of our 
 ability. Ahheugh I hove great hopes of 
 the future of this country, and believe 
 that Its progress must be promoted by the 
 Mquisition Of the North West and the 
 development 6f its resources — although I 
 have eveiy desire to see the colony of 
 British Colutnbia united to the Confeaera- 
 tion, y^t I cannot give my assent to pro- 
 positions which would pledge this country 
 to undertake What it cannot possibly per- 
 form, and tinder these circumstances I 
 must snatain the amendment (hear, hear). 
 Hon. U*. MACPHERSON— The policy of 
 lulniittlng British Columbia mto the Union 
 is acknowledged by every gentleman who 
 baa addreesed this House smoe the debate 
 on thel resolutions commenced to-day. Not 
 only is the advisability of this policy ad- 
 mitted by the country at large, but the 
 very Act of Parliament under which we 
 sit here contemplates the extension of the 
 limits of the Confederation to the shores 
 of the PaciHc. Inasmuch as that policy is 
 admitted, there is no necessity for malung 
 any elaborate argument in its favor, what 
 we have to consider is whether it is timely 
 and -wise to acquiesce in the terms on 
 which it is proposed to acquire British 
 Columbia. With respect to the time, I 
 think it has been always acknowledged 
 throughout the country that the sooner all 
 the provinces on this continent are united 
 under one Government, the better for the 
 interests of the whole. Therefore, I think 
 it is unnecessary to say anything as to the 
 timeliness of entering into this airange- 
 ment, and I may proceed to discuss the 
 terms. But before doing that I may say a 
 few words with respect to the form in 
 which this question is set before us. It 
 has been commonly described as a treaty 
 — a term rather too important, perhaps, 
 
177 
 
 BrittMk 
 
 [April 8, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 178 
 
 1 
 
 i, 
 
 "f 
 
 m 
 
 but, nevertbeleas, I UM it for the Mke of 
 convenience, linoe it hat been Moepted in 
 tbitdebftte Mepropermodeofespreuion. 
 We muat therciore kooepi or reject it m » 
 whole— we cennot amend it oo it ia with 
 reference toerery agreement entered into 
 between peoplea or individnala. If the 
 agentaof^wo indiriduala Mnree upon an 
 arrangement reserving fbf ue prmcipela 
 to aiflrm or reject, the eflhot of alteriag it 
 is to throw it back and leeve matter* Jnit 
 where they were before. That wonla bei 
 the efleot of our amending thia Mree^ 
 ment with Britiah CkdumUa. If we dter* 
 ed it in the slighteat degree, that ia doing 
 what Britialu£olumbia never agreed to. 
 Should we offer other terme, it would b« 
 nec««MU7 that British Ooiombia should 
 have an opportunity of sa^ng whether 
 she would assent to them, or not. It is 
 better as it— that this more im^rtant 
 body, which has ta control Dominion af- 
 fairs, and arrange the taxation of the 
 whole ConAderation, should have the laat 
 word in this matter and say whether we 
 should dose the bargain or not. The 
 terms have been arranged under thr«e 
 heads— the political, financial, and rail- 
 way. Now, with respect U> the linanoial 
 features of the scheme, every one must 
 admit that it is absolutely necessary that 
 British Columbia shoiUd have the ability to 
 support her local government, and of 
 meetmg her local requirements. Now 
 looking into the terms they seem to me 
 fair and reaaonable. The Dominion agrees 
 to pay an annual subaidy of $35,000. at in 
 ' the case of the other irovi^oea; also. 80 
 cents per head, equivalent to $48,000.' 
 These sums amount to only $88,000^ which 
 is evidently altogether inadequate to meet 
 the local wants of the colony. There- 
 fore it wat found neoessarr to supple- 
 ment thitt amount by $100,000 — no vary 
 extravagant turn certainly. If instead of 
 $35,000, it had been ahown that $135,000 
 was required by British Columbia, in order 
 to Tir^VtitAin her provincial services, and 
 make such local improvements as she 
 would require, this opuntty could not 
 have objected to give it, and that too 
 without receiving any equivalent in 
 the shape of land. Instead of that, 
 however, the Government of the Dominion 
 has stipulated that a strip of land, 40 
 miles wide, should be given alon^ the route 
 of the proposed railway in British Colum- 
 bia. If the information we have respect- 
 ing the country is at all correct, that land 
 must become veiy valuable in the course 
 of time, and I think the country has every 
 reason to be satisfied with tliis part ef the 
 arrangement. With respect to the consii- 
 tutional or political terms — the representa- 
 tion in the House of Commons and ijenate 
 has been particularly referred to. It if 
 
 quite true that it is^ not arranged quite in 
 accordance with the'' terms of the Brititb 
 North America Act, but it moat be renem' 
 bered that those termt have boon departad 
 from in the ease of other Provinoet which 
 have been added to the Doniaion, and the 
 Parliament baa aaeented to the poUoy. 
 The queetion K whether woold it be Juat 
 to the Piovinoet m queatfaMi, oooaidering 
 their isolated peeitkn and tpmely teitlod 
 eoaditioo, to apply to them a prinelple 
 which, omied ool ttrioUy, would ptobebly 
 leeve them withovl any repreaentetion 
 worth inentkwing. fiooad aa the prinei* 
 pie of re p reaentettwa nuur be, ia the oaae 
 of eouatriot well aefctlea, we mntt take 
 territorial area and the ciroomatenoea of • 
 colony into the aoooont at timsa. It ia 
 certainly deeiraUe that when we acquiro . 
 any very ^eet territory we abould have ia 
 Parliament a certein number of gentlemen 
 in both Houses to inform us with reapeot 
 to the resources, condition and require- 
 ments of the country. The provisions re- 
 specting the railway have then been refer- 
 red to as very objectionable, but it hae 
 been very jusikly remarked by the Poet- 
 master Qenersl that whilst this arrange- 
 ment wat before the House for sevenral 
 months, there wat . scarcely an adverse 
 ojpinion ezprested in the preaa against it. 
 "nie aoquiution of British CJolumbia in fact, 
 it merely carrying out a poliqy which led to 
 the annexation of Uanitoba and the North 
 Wett Territory. Now, hon. ^ntlemen will 
 acknowledge that there will be no ad- 
 viintage in acquiring theae territoriea un- 
 lets thiare are oommunicatioat opened up 
 to enable immigeantt to come m and flU. 
 up the watte landt and make them profit- 
 able. Two yeart ago when the tubjeot of 
 oommunioation with the North Weat Ter- 
 ritory was before the Ilonte, I had $n op- 
 portunito of urging the necettity and pro- 
 priefy of opening up oommnnicationt from 
 the head of Lake Superior to Fort (iarry 
 through British Territoiy. We then had 
 Mr. iMwaon't Report before ut wUch ttat- 
 ed that fbr a moderate expenditure a very 
 tolerable route could be opened up wtiion 
 would enable immigrantt to be traiuferred 
 from the head of the Lake for a veiy 
 small sum. In point of economy it 
 is the true policy to opMi up thia 
 communication in tome wayfirom tbiehead 
 of Lake Superior. I think every effort 
 should be made to give vU a secure and 
 economical route for immigrants into the 
 faetfft of the North West country. As re- 
 spects tiie rf^way also, our poli<^ should 
 be as -economical as practicable. I said 
 at the time in question that the way to 
 build up our country was to improve our 
 communications and preserve friendly re- 
 lations with the United States. Now a 
 great deal b&g been said about the ii\ju- 
 
 to( 
 
 forti 
 
m 
 
 1 quit* i» 
 B Britteb 
 • leiaam- 
 d«p»rt4kl 
 DMWhkb 
 lyMidUM 
 te poUojr. 
 Ub« Ju»t 
 HMUwng 
 lyMlttod 
 piinaipl* 
 
 Ipiotably 
 iMntoUoo 
 hepriiiai> 
 
 MBOMOf » 
 
 •■. It i* 
 ra Mquir* . 
 lid htif in 
 nntlaiiMn 
 £ T«ip«oi 
 d r«qoire- 
 iriuoM re- 
 l>Mn refer- 
 but it hw 
 IT the Post- 
 lia arriuig9- 
 for aeveral 
 A adverse 
 I aguiut it. 
 ibiaiafaot, 
 rhioh led to 
 itbe North 
 itlemen will 
 be no td> 
 ritoriee un- 
 opened up 
 a^mdfiU' 
 heoi profit- 
 enikgeotof 
 I Weet Ter- 
 had lUiop- 
 uiyandpro- 
 oikUoDi m>m 
 Fort Oanry 
 e then bad 
 I wUoh Stat- 
 [itore a very 
 »d tipwhioa 
 »tranBferr«d 
 I for a ve^ 
 eoonomy U 
 m up thia 
 rom tmhead 
 every effort 
 asQDure and 
 utts into tbe 
 Qtiy. As re- 
 }ohoy should 
 ible. I said 
 , tbe way to 
 improve our 
 » friendly re- 
 tes. Now a 
 }ut the inju- 
 
 119 
 
 British 
 
 (SENATE.) 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 180 
 
 dioiousn«u of building a railway through 
 a comp irativel V terra ineoanita. I quite 
 agree with gentlemen on this point, but I 
 must again refer to what I said two jrears 
 ago— that our polioy should be to build a 
 railway Westwwd mm PeabfaM to Fort 
 Otury, and thenoe westward to the Rooky 
 Mountains, and thoroughly to explore the 
 oountnr eastward IVom Fort Garry to the 
 settled portions of Ontario. What does 
 this resolution say T 
 
 <'ll, TbeOovemmentof the Dominion 
 undertakt to secure the commenoemsnt 
 simultaneously, within two years from the 
 date of Union, of the construction of a 
 Railway from tbe Pacific towards the Koolqr 
 Mountains, and from »uch point at moffbe 
 teUeted, Eaitoftht Rooky Mountain!, iowartk 
 the PacMe, to eonneet the ttabomrd of BriUtk 
 Oolunwia with the reilway eyttem of Omada ; 
 and further, to secure the completion of 
 such railway within ten years, from tbe 
 dp of Union." 
 
 ' the railways of the United States are 
 bi. .tup to the boundaHea of the North 
 West Territories, as they will be very soon, 
 why not avail ourselves of the facil tea 
 they will afford us and thereby save large 
 ezpenditurea for the present. Beginning 
 our railway then, westward of the frontier, 
 we can work our way easily and economi- 
 cally ; we can carry materials and supplies 
 without difficulty; and fhrthermore we 
 will at once open up a country most suit- 
 able for emigrants. I do not believe any 
 other course than this can be easily adopt- 
 ed under existing circumstances. I do not 
 yield to any honorable gentleman in the 
 desire to see an Interoceanic Railway 
 through British territory, but We should 
 advance prudently, using the American 
 Ihies to our North Western (h>ntier, build 
 our railway westwards through our prairie 
 iMids, iriiich are so attractive ta usett lers, 
 and carefhlly explore the countef^etWeen 
 Fort Qarry and Lake Nipiasing/ before un- 
 dertaking to build a railway ^^oogh it. I 
 am not going to say anythingiwith respect 
 to the probable cost of a railway. There 
 are no data which wiU enable any one in 
 this House to make any positive osaertions 
 aa the subject. We know that a great deal 
 of the countiy through which it will run 
 is prairie, and the expenses of construction 
 there will not be very great. We also 
 know from the experience of our neigh- 
 bours, that railway companies have found 
 prairie land a very profitable source of 
 revenue. Companies that were considered 
 ruined at one time hive eventually made 
 fortunes out of such property. I can 
 imagine a railway which, built with the 
 aid of land grants and a small money sub- 
 sidy, will combine with the American sys- 
 tem and connect us in that way with the 
 
 (bores of the Pacific Ocean. Such a Bchtine 
 would not involvu us in ahpr ruinoun ex 
 
 Cnditures, but, connected with a compre 
 nsive system of immigration, would have 
 much effect upon the development of our 
 resources. 1 am not afraid of those' 
 enormous burthens of which some hon. 
 
 fentlemen have spoken being undertaken. 
 believe there is sufficient good Judgment 
 in the Parliament and Oovemment.to pre- 
 vent any snoh ruinous results. It must be re- 
 membered too, that gentlemen trom British 
 Golumbia will have plaoes in Parliament, 
 and will have an equal interest with our- 
 selves in promotfaig the prosperity of the 
 Don inion and preventing any unnecessary 
 burthens being imposed on the country at 
 Uirge. It is absurd to say that the Ex- 
 chequer of tbe Dominion is to be burthen - 
 ed With an expenditure of |100,000,000— 
 no one can seriously believe that there is 
 any such design in contemplation. Would 
 any govei* .ment be insane enough to pro- 
 pose such a thing? Would the . country 
 umotion the policy ? Or, in the next place, 
 consider tbe utter impossibility of borrow- 
 ing such a sum of money. It is not Par- 
 liamentary to suggest that gentlemen do 
 not mean what they say, but certainly I 
 do not understand how the hon. gentle- 
 man pear me can think for a moment that 
 the resources of the country will be bur- 
 thened with $100,000,000 to expend in this 
 or any other enterprise. Vyhust I could 
 imagine a railway built without any serious 
 buruien to the finances of the Dominion, 
 at the same time I feel we have every 
 atrong claim on the British Government 
 for assistance to this project. I cannot 
 doubt that that claim will be admitted in 
 aome way sooner or later. Of 
 course many things may combine to 
 delay the accomplishment of the 
 project. A war in Europe would un- 
 questionably prevent us getting money to 
 build it — two or three bad harvests in our 
 own country would have the same efiect ; 
 but we Ljpe thet such calamities will not 
 occur. If it is possible to build this road 
 in the way proposed, the progress that this 
 country will make during the next twenty 
 years will be greater than we jau now 
 imagine, and enable us to meet any 
 liabilities we inay incur in connection with 
 an undertaking which will be one of the 
 chief ^uses of the increased prosperity of 
 the Dominion. If gentlemen would only 
 consider the progress of tbb country since 
 the construction of railways they would 
 look with more conHdence into the future. 
 Reference has been made to the Grand 
 Trunk Railway, in the course of the de- 
 bate, for the purpose of awaking fears in ' 
 the minds of some gentlemen with re- 
 spect to the proposed road. It ought by 
 this time to br admitted that the Grand 
 
181 
 
 British 
 
 [Apbil 3, 1871.1 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 1S% 
 
 Trunk Kailway has contributjed more than 
 anything (else to the progress of this 
 country. If the rates of traffic which pro- 
 Tailed when the Comban]! was first wt^ 
 lisbed had oontintiea for three or i'pwr 
 years after the &. T; B. wi^ conwlftaqi 
 the resoits weqld haye b«ea very duBTertu)!/ 
 from what they werd. Tb* pinfita WQwL 
 then hay^ £t^y com* }fp tb thff pgromiff ^ ; 
 h^ Otti lft:'t)^lJaxBpe<!taKHh-«o^ 
 say ^i .1 4o not ^ow tff t^lJ flpuajbg:. 
 that hM iif4m nulvan o9)^tjraoted no> 
 acowaoSmtij vat hen(»lf |m OaipMia. T^ 
 ezpend^oie vfiyfx nSangtialMVff^viafie 
 of OanM^<~iu^w Unuuu) ami Quebep— 
 was, as nearlF .af J><W|«n«i M^OOUOOO (if 
 which ihe tjCvyaS» onl; omuapluttted tpm» 
 $20,opDLOOa Ahnbet e«i^ ottun oouoiry 
 situated as Canada is, t]bi|*Vh#^ to ^tain 
 moneyirom a^litotA to ow/i nulwaj^ )^ 
 to guAiantee a retain^ of .^ per cent. I 
 hope that this house will qo as dlaeyriiere 
 and adopt these reaolutionii. Vy ho^. 
 friend spoke'of diotatioa on tbe p^ of 
 the other part^ to tbe agreement, aamajiy 
 British -Columbia. I rentet tpai I oaubot 
 see ai^y force in that oqiebtion. 1 tbii^c 
 that whilsi it is qtiita poasi)^e thiU; thi; 
 clause on (he subject of t|h|e nulif^ miflbt 
 be more olewlj dntwn up. itai>iMfrs bTpe 
 fully supplemented by toW rfMliitfap thfd 
 hag been ^^ifOdu^ ti^^iiiitfp. t ifof^ft 
 that we mev saf eW wdiiwiti^ qp. t^ pror 
 greu that toe Doi^nion ^i|Hfpi%<U apd la 
 making. Hon. g)M)ilMiu|i| xb^ admit 
 that aa «opr|Boed»iit<fcl ptOHgim^ jM»- 
 vails thnou^out tbe qoufjirr. Aowv^ i# 
 obyioi^ that; bad CQiif^c)eqij|^oa.jl7f^ >);# 
 unwise mearare that idnA-MtioOiisBti.itti^ 
 
 dict^ssrs^tTSsss^ 
 
 exist. Tbe boo^teotu bMreatf, baycL w 
 owirse, ipueh to do vri^ tbe. pjiey^cw^ 
 prospeiitir— rooob ia doe to.tbe eufrgy-JHiMi^ 
 indttstpyofthe pepfile: bot etui ConiMi 
 eratiojf, which im maae us ooie people, 
 and gjLyes eyMJy seotion en intenst in »be 
 prosperity of the whole, fafui tended to 
 stimuifk^ aotiyiigr and develope our oe- 
 sources. All tbaft we are now asked to do. 
 is to sirengtbea tbe Confedeimtion by ad- / 
 ding apmber Province, sad deyelcming 
 reBO^r|09S wbiob it must be homed will en- 
 hance tbe prosperity andweaftbof tbeDfK 
 minion, (afmlanse. ) 
 
 Hon. Mr.PfiVEBsaidbe did not think 
 it was neooasary for him to say much on 
 this subject, seeing it was s'^ ably debated 
 by both sides of tbe House already. The 
 principle of Union, ontil all British Amer- 
 ica was united, was admitted by every 
 speaker on either side of the House. AU 
 then that remained (0*1)6 done was |o settle 
 on the detldls of this contract, and as he 
 had no reason to change his opinion and 
 refuse to entertain that confidence he had 
 steadily held in the honesty, wisdom, and 
 
 legislative ability of the statesmen who 
 prqjected Union, and had aarried it on so 
 wr triumpbanUy, hsf suw op '•<upn now to 
 place ^cebfidepo^ifiaii Opposition, some 
 of w^om bfi ^lew ta be aotuated by op 
 higlieir m<^lyet| ihni^ in^rieted disappeuti- 
 qMQt. J^wswertQtfte.iMiW'lMofsWfr 
 qt tliie Pppccntkm ^ to (be jalue oXVap 
 poyM si aa s in qufs^^ n^ blRter apfw<^ 
 Qo v qd o e g ive n tl i w 1#BlWttoairii^g |it(^t^in«a( 
 taken from the New Yor^ IVii^of e l»te 
 date. Speaking of the retources of B^tish 
 America (heKewYorklHbum said: <The 
 RcmI Riyer aad Ssricstcbewan territories 
 tta^bmce an are* burn e^du^ fior four or 
 fivp large States or supenot prairie sod 
 i^nid toll, witb a good snpphrof coal an^ 
 geld, and eousl ft>r Sgricultonuporposesio 
 Xortl^em liichigBn, Milwaukee, and Vin- 
 nesots; Beyond tbe Booky Hoonteins is 
 Britbb Qolumbia, abounding with gold, and 
 couieiaiDsihe best and most aoundsnt 
 coal mines ye( found on ib9 Padfio Slope. 
 It has a superior soil, a magnificent climate, 
 and an abundance of fish. That colony is 
 in every reepec( in 'natural supwiority," 
 fqlljr en a par with Califomi» and Oregon, 
 and tbe Territory of Wasbinglon." 
 
 TCBSDAT, April 4tb, 1871. 
 
 The SPEAKER took (ho Chair at 3 
 o'olpok, apfi tbe adjourned debate wss t0f 
 
 H<n», W' PIP^Y.— UiA in^Bipf^lete 
 —mk tJI* d»w«wMa ^-^ quMtion 
 
 ^iOfAta tmm^wh^ hulk raw i^Mlst 
 of |be loiwaop^ iWt|MP9f 9w(«p9 «»ie 
 iul % » 4M4)ir4»rv^K)».b)s)olvmt tbe 
 
 9f hmdiWi^l t lHW B llim «»r<hfB B0«> 
 Shoe* BM^stin»isf, lend o» Ael^a 
 of the^^M)«> tbia «qMotqtwii»peaeis> 
 
 f waiftnQg,»ff^m iMMvif oneiMf the 
 liaeofBofop^t •i^r«t ttw beur we are 
 asked to ooBslder (be propiJeiy of aoDeataag 
 • fiuiber piaee of tenitoigrirl^ wUleqwu 
 if it dees Qo( «Toeed ihe wboi* of Vra^c». 
 Impressed wi(b (bis vieiv I dcsiie (o dis- 
 cuss (be ques(ion wi(b » de^ sense of (be 
 responsi'juity wbicb a((adies (o my«e)f as 
 weU as (o otbers who (ake- par( in it» and 
 witb ft gravity and moderation adAn(ed (a 
 (he vital issues involved to us aqd to our 
 children (hear bear). I shall refrain, on (be 
 OOP bsnd, from a((emp(ing (o influence (he 
 House by any daading pto(ure ot tbe effwU 
 (o be produced by this measure, on tbe 
 other from pandering (o prejudices by en- 
 deavouring to raise a bugbwu- of (be re- 
 sults' Uke^ uo accrue. It must be oon- 
 fessed that we liave b^n rather unfortu- 
 nate in our negotiations with .respect to 
 (he acquisition of territory. We proposed 
 
188 
 
 Brilish 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia, 
 
 1«4 
 
 OD the 
 
 what were undoubtedly too liberal terms 
 to Prince Edward Island and to Newfound- 
 land and becaiiue o* ' his jierhapa they bave 
 been rcgeoted. In uie case of Manitoba 
 we have been compelled to give £300,000 
 sterling for almost nothing so far as the. 
 persons who received that money Were cojor 
 oemed. It was not for soTereigoiy, fbir 
 that came fyom the Queen— it was i;tot for 
 trAlingrights, for those were left intapt— 
 it was not for possessions, for we l|»ft 
 the Hudson's Bay Company's possessions 
 iniiict, and we confinnea the titles of thou- 
 sands oi people who had derived their tities 
 from them, so thfkt many persons think we 
 have given up the finest part of the terri- 
 toiy. Since theQ we have been knocking 
 at the gate of the Pacific wiih a view of 
 getting Vancouver Island and British Co- 
 lumbia into the Union. The House lua 
 now before them the terms which were or- 
 iginally askeci by British Columbia as con- 
 ditions of coming into the Dominion, and 
 those which have been agreed to by their 
 liegislature and the Qovernment of Canada. 
 I am bound to say from an examination 
 of the terms we are called upon to sanction 
 that they are infinitely more onerous than 
 those offered to us a year ag^o — it is prob 
 ably the old story of the Sybylline leaves 
 over again; apd I for one regret that we 
 should not have accepted them or some 
 slight modification of them. Instead o^ 
 committing ourselves to a policy of im^efi- 
 nite expendittue of money wjthiiia.defln^e 
 period of time, it would hwe been ^i^e 
 had we seourea spmethiiu il)ke th« tern^ 
 on the question of the tajlin^ wWch. w«e 
 oflTeredtp^a. instei^oif h^g houort;tft 
 com<^«pA.t)|i«JWlw^ wittOQ. tTf« y<MM». 
 we wm. WW • lipfc of tt>w.y«»j(B^ ud 
 we ww^. dm; iMQV^d V> opnstroot tm. 
 raUww wstWift a l2pH«<t period. 
 
 At tM ontM>t of thia diadossien we are,aKjt, 
 by a oooatitf^opal obiection which I ci«i- 
 notpaasby since it. oome« ftom a gentle- 
 man whose opiniops on ooaatitutionalaod 
 legal pohita a^ entitled to everjr respii^st. 
 That bon. gentlen^ia (Mr. Sanborn) Ivui 
 referred us to the 146tb leotion of the 
 Act of Union and doubted the eonstitution- 
 alityofoiir proceedings. Now there mav 
 be a great deal in the otyeotion and if soit 
 is only another proof among maoyotibe 
 incomplete manner in which the Union 
 Act was framed, but if my hon. fHend will 
 permit me, I will refer to the 
 section which be has quoted, which 
 gives power on the address of the 
 Houses of Parliament to admit Rupert's 
 Land, and the North Western Territories, 
 British Columbia, or either, of them into 
 the union " on . such terms and conditions 
 in each case as are in the address expressijd, 
 and as the Queen thinks fit to approve, 
 subject to the Promnioni of this Ac', and the 
 
 Provisions of any order in Council in that 
 behalf shall have eflect m if they had been 
 enacted by the Parliament of the United. 
 Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland." 
 I put to my friend whether*these words — 
 they may be obscure btit not such as to 
 prevent us understanding them — are not 
 sufficiently strong as to the mode of pro- 
 cedure. The Queen's order in Council is 
 to be followed up by a proclamation. JB"- 
 tbh Columbia asks to be admitted and 
 we agree to the request. The Queen ia 
 the fountain of honor and she consents by^ 
 her proclamation tiiat these Senators shall 
 be appointed. In section 28 the nunber of 
 Senators is limited to 78. .'-'jt per b ips the 
 question may be settled in the .'.^t about 
 being submitted to the Imperial Parlia- 
 ment. At all events, so far as I am con- 
 cerned I feel that the Government are res- 
 ponsible for the constitutionality of the 
 Act. 
 
 I am not surprised at the objectiona 
 made to some of the terms of this arrange- 
 ment, which few I think will deny are of 
 a most exacting cliaracter [hear, hear]. 
 I think it might have been the wiser 
 course Tor the government, oould they 
 have secured such terms in the negotiations 
 .IS would have simply pledged us to «ecure 
 the conatruction of the railway from the 
 Pacific to our lines upon such conditions as 
 they i.'.onld arrange with Companies 
 thoroughly exai>iining the route. I regret 
 some such arrangement was not made, but 
 now that these resolutions we here we must 
 takii t*iern as they stand. I cannot agree- 
 wi';\jt my k'm oolKMue from Nova IJcoti4 
 [Mr, Mil'orVwho poidwrn the cost of the 
 iSbabail Pactfio Bailwa^at 132,000,000 to 
 t^e United States Crovwnment; for on 
 reierrence to an authority on the subject 
 I J9nd that t^e American Government for 
 that line of 1774 miles gave a large subsid" 
 ing equal to |&2|,800,000 besides a guanmtee 
 Ibr interest on an equal amount^ uid all 
 this irrespective of the lands for alternate 20 
 miles sections. I am not willing to pledge 
 this country to assume ai^ such burthens, 
 but I think when we come to OQnsider the 
 question, we will find that no such -bur- 
 thens are to be imposed upon us. in the 
 E resent instance. With the experience, 
 owever, of the UniteoH&tes before ua, we 
 have no reason to suppose that 2,^ miles 
 of railway can be built for less than that 
 amount of money. We have every reason 
 to suppose that should the government 
 undertake the construction of this work, we 
 would be landed in an expenditure of at 
 least |15ap00,000. The Companies in the 
 United Srates had doubtless some addition- 
 al capital of their own besides the govern- 
 ment assistance which amounted to nearly 
 $60,000 a mile. We are now asked under 
 these resolutions to construct the work 
 
185 
 
 British 
 
 [April 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 1«6 
 
 I i 
 
 in ten yea» and I do not hesitate to uay 
 that so far as I am able to judge th>it id 
 perfectly impraotioable, and delusive. 
 Suppose a war was to br»ik out in Europe 
 or on this continent, all vhese pkms would 
 be disarranged, or take the case of the 
 Intercolonial Railway which is being baUt 
 in a time of peace. A £)w days ago the 
 PostmLiater General said, in answer to an 
 eiiquiiy, that we are not likely to have 
 the Intercolonial Bail way finished in 
 very much less than three years 
 from this time, or seven years from the 
 period of Union, and if seven years have 
 be«n found necessary to survey and con- 
 struct 500 miles near a oontinuous. highway 
 and stopped at halt a doien points by wa- 
 ter communimtion, how long will it take, 
 and how much will it cost to construct 
 2,500 miles at such a vast distance from the 
 base of operations? In connection with 
 this the House will see that one of the 
 greatest difBcuIties we would have to en- 
 counter would be the cost of getting up 
 supplies and materials along the route — 
 the iron, say 100 tons per mue, and other 
 plant, material, and supplies. All this 
 shows that we should not delude ourselves 
 with the idea that this is a work which is 
 going to be surveyed immediately and con- 
 structed in the course of a few years. The 
 smaJlest subsidy of $32,000 per mile before 
 mentioned was over a prairie country ; for 
 on one-third of the Pacific Bulwav, the 
 railway followed the spade and the plough, 
 and a mile was often laid in a day— the 
 greatest difficulty was the moving of sup- 
 plies. Were we to consider these teaolu- 
 tions alone I could not consistently giye ' 
 them my support, but we have had the 
 matter put before us in a very different 
 light. The Government, for some reaami 
 of their own, have been impressed with tne 
 idea that it was not desirable for them to 
 undertake such a herculean task, and it is 
 due to the Postmaster-General to say that 
 in his able and persuasive speech ho indig- 
 nantly repudiated the idea that the Gov- 
 ernment mtended to take such a burthen 
 upon their shoulders^ Inadditiontothatwe 
 have the fact that the leader of the Govern- 
 ment elsewhere has, in his place, brought 
 down a resolution by which he asks Parlia- 
 ment to resolve that the Government shall 
 not construct the work but that it shall be 
 built by a Company, by means of a lib- 
 eral grant of land and by a subsidy 
 commensurate with the finances of the 
 country, and that these amoimts ore to be 
 hereafter determined by Parlit.ment. 
 Under these circumstances the matter is 
 presented to my mind in a very diflferent 
 light. I have not onlv confidence in the 
 resolutions as a record of Parliament, but 
 I have confidence that the Government 
 will not withdraw from the solemn pledge 
 
 they have made in both Houses— that it is 
 not the intention of the government to 
 construct the work as a government work ; 
 and 1 say' this the moie emphatically be- 
 cause it would be contrary to idl my prin- 
 ciples in public life were I to consent that 
 41118 work should be constructed in that way. 
 'Tor manjr years in Nova Scotia I was 
 brought mto conflict with parsoni who 
 were advocating these government railways 
 and the best proof that I was correct is 
 afforded by the fact that at this very day, 
 after the works have been assumed by the 
 Doininiou, we find the representatives of 
 the people urging that these roads should 
 be nanded over to private companies. 
 The government however repudiated the 
 idea of tmdertaking the construction of 
 this great work. My hon. friend from 
 Wellington Division says tfaiat this does 
 not appear in the resolutions; but he 
 should remember that we are not deal- 
 ing with foreigners but with persons who 
 are to be a portion of our population and 
 to take a share in the Legislation of the Do- 
 minion, and th^y are not likely to agree to 
 impose heavy burthens upon the whole 
 country of which they are to form a part, 
 and with whose prosperity they will be for 
 all time identified. The hon. member 
 should also remember that the question 
 of the railway is not simply ti British 
 Columbia question. So far as we are con 
 cemed it is of Canadian importance for 
 more than two-thirds the distance. We 
 have the whole of the North West to open 
 up, and that can never Se achieved except 
 by oommunioations wbi jh will bring immi- 
 giants into the country. If my ben. friend 
 had a doien osipitalists oousulungwiUi him 
 as to A railway aorosa the North west Ter- 
 ritory, would he not have a better chance 
 of getting good terms fh>m them when he 
 ooiud give them a superior terminus on 
 the Padfic shore, than by stopping at the 
 foot of the Rooky Uounlains 7 
 
 My bon. friend from Toronto strongly 
 urged the propriety of commencing the 
 oonstruotion ot the railway at Pembiiu, 
 and taking it to fort Garry and thence 
 westward. This view is a rational one, and 
 commends itself to us in many ways. If 
 we have a line to Pembina o nneeting with 
 the Amerfoan system of railways we have 
 the means of moving our materials and 
 ■uppliaa with facility and compaiative 
 cheapness. More than that, you will have 
 a tide of emigration followiiag the road— 
 the laborers, on the completion of the 
 line wUl naturally settle alonnside of it. 
 Moi>t of the land in the North West, so far 
 as we know, is superior to that through 
 which the American railways pass The 
 sandy desert which the American line 
 crosses extends all the way up with an 
 average breat^th ot some 500 miles to the 
 
1S6 
 
 es — that it is 
 iremment to 
 unentwork ; 
 ihatically be- 
 dlmy prin- 
 consent that 
 1 in that way. 
 cotia I was 
 panoni who 
 aent railways 
 IS correct is 
 lis very day, 
 lumed by the 
 sentatives of 
 roads should 
 companies, 
 pudiated the 
 istruotion of 
 Mend fW>m 
 [at this does 
 ms; but he 
 ore not deal- 
 persons who 
 tpulation and 
 on of the i>o- 
 ly to agree to 
 n the whole 
 » form a part, 
 ey will be for 
 ou. member 
 the question 
 )ly i British 
 IS we are con 
 
 E>rtanoe for 
 tance. We 
 West to open 
 liieTed except 
 1 bring immi- 
 av hop. friend 
 .tmgwithhim 
 rthlVest Ter- 
 better ohanoe 
 :hem when he 
 terminus on 
 opping at the 
 ? 
 
 onto strongly 
 amencing the 
 at Pembina, 
 f and thence 
 clonal one, and 
 my ways. If 
 nnecting with 
 [ways we have 
 materials and 
 . comparative 
 you will have 
 ig the road— 
 tletion of the 
 lonmide of it. 
 ;h west, so far 
 that throush 
 ITS pass The 
 American line 
 vf up with an 
 X) miles to the 
 
 187 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 188 
 
 North, and cornea into the North West Ter- 
 ritory, which now belongs to the Dominion, 
 its apex resting upon the head waters of 
 the Assiniboine. But the portion of it in 
 BritishTerritory is very small— it w the only 
 part of the great valley which is unproduc- 
 tive—all the rest of it has a soil infinitdly 
 supi-rior t» anything to the southward. 
 You have there at once an inducement for 
 immigrants to settle because you have th« 
 best land unencumbered by the forest 
 which is often a terror to persons unac- 
 customed to that sort of life, and vou ofier 
 homes to millions from other lands. My 
 hon- friend from Nova Scotia said we had 
 the best line on the continent ; I am quite 
 aware that we have the best pass, through 
 the Booky Mountains. What the'ooun^ 
 may be over the steppes of British Colum- 
 bia I cannot say, nor can he. Neither oan 
 we say what the features of the country 
 from Bainy Lake to Lake Nipissing may be. 
 These are some of the dimoulties which 
 beset me at the outset when I come to con- 
 sider the propriety of buildinjg this railway 
 within a definite time at an indefinite cost. 
 But we are told we should pause before 
 incurring any additional liabilities which 
 we may find it difficult to meet. Have my 
 hon. friends considered the , steady pro- 
 gress of the population and resources of 
 this country ? Look at the opening up of 
 the great North Western country— it must 
 necessarily lead to great immigration not 
 only of the young men of Canada, but from 
 Europe who will become consumers and 
 tax payers. Then we must take into ac- 
 count the e&ect of this enormous expen-<^ 
 diture withm our borders upon theinoreaa- 
 ing reeources of this oount^ (hear, hear). 
 The Qovemment propose to aid this work 
 by a 8ubBi<}y and land grant, but the per- 
 sons who undertake it will have to take 
 the responsibility of raising the capital, 
 and that will be expended to a large ex- 
 tent in the Somioion. There is another 
 statement of my hon. i'riend on the left 
 (Hon. Mr, Miller) to which I can scarcely 
 assent, and that is, as I understood him, 
 that the effect of tils line will be to divert 
 all or a great portion of the eastern trade 
 across this line- aoi he very forcibly and 
 eloquentlv dwelt on the advantages of that 
 trofnc. He told us very properly that the 
 people Tiho possess the trade of the east 
 generally rule the world in commercial 
 matters. We should not mislead ourselves 
 by anything that may turn out on experi- 
 ence to be mere assumption. We should 
 not forget that the Suez Canal is in opera- 
 tion and that it has cut off two-thirds of 
 the voyage from China and India to Europe, 
 but still be is to a certain extent right, 
 inasmuch as the tendency of this rail- 
 way must be to attract a portion of this 
 commerce. We have the advantage of 
 
 crossing the American continent at its 
 broadest part and necessarily shortening 
 the sea voyage. It will be a line which 
 must have very great advantages over any 
 other in the United States or likely to be 
 built, llien agam we lie pretty nearly in 
 a direot line between England and China. 
 I have no hopes ot an enormous traffic, 
 possibly silks and the finest qualities of 
 teas may be brought over, but the great 
 bulk of the trade must still be carried on 
 without transhipment. The Island of 
 Vancouver is to the Pacific what Nova 
 Scotia is to the Atlantic; and here I con- 
 
 that the interest of my native Pro- 
 vince lies deep in my heart at this moment. 
 We believe this is to a very lar^e extent a 
 Nova Scotia question. Every mile of rail- 
 way west of Halifax is of the greatest con- 
 sequence to that city— it oan never be 
 a matter of indifference to the 
 people of Nova Scotia that the 
 projected scheme, when carried out, 
 may make Halifax the New York of Brit- 
 ish America. Therefore, we, who come 
 from Nova Scotia, feel a deep interest in 
 this question, and I am well assured that 
 their votes to-day will show that they ap- 
 preciate its importance. My hon. friend 
 from the Wellington Division has put it to 
 us very strongly why has not this resolution 
 introduced in the Commons been incor 
 porated into the address. If he refers to 
 the Union Act, he will see tkat the two 
 addresses from British Columbia and from 
 the Dominion must be identical. Besides 
 the British Columbia delegate is here, and 
 I assume he, as well as his people, are sa^ 
 tisfied with this modification of the terms ; 
 they ought to be, for what more could 
 they reasonably ask than the pledge that 
 the railway vrill be constructed in the 
 most expeditious manner consistent with 
 the nature of the country and a due regard 
 to the financial exigencies of the Dominion. 
 If not they oan send another address to 
 the Queen, objecting to the change, and 
 no proclamation will be issued. This view 
 ought to satisfy the reason and scruples 
 of every hon. member, (hear, he^.) We 
 are told by the member &om the Welling- 
 ton Division that Great Britain is about to 
 'leave us to ourselves ; but on the autho- 
 rity of what British statesmen does he base 
 such a statement.' He may gather the 
 scattered utterances of some of the Man- 
 chester School, but he cannot prove that 
 what he asserts is the pobcyofthe states- 
 men or the people ot England. I would 
 tell him that, so far from its being the po- 
 licy of England, it is the very reverse. Has 
 she not been protecting us all along ? Has 
 she not been assisting in guarding our 
 fisheries from the encroachment of for- 
 eigners ? Do we not see her even contend- 
 ing in Council for the headlands line 
 
mmmm 
 
 189 
 
 British 
 
 [AppiL 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 190 
 
 
 which we claim in connection with these 
 fisheries. It is but right when-a pubho 
 man makea such swaeping assertions he 
 should be able to justify them by refer- 
 ence to some autbwity. The Dominion 
 certainly is not ai^essive — all we desire is 
 peace with owe neighbors — wehavo no fwr 
 of aggression on their part. With a con- 
 stderablo portion of th«u own people in a 
 ebronic state of dissatisfaction, uey dannol 
 afford to make any attack upon us ; so 
 that in their existing circamstanoes we 
 imve the best guarantee of peace. Would 
 that I could impress these views upi^ 
 those who are lighting our diplomatic 
 battles at Vi'ashington. We make no de- 
 fiance, but simply ask to be allowed io 
 carry on our own business, and work out 
 oar own deitiny, while we cultivate the 
 arts of peace and friendly commeroi|d 
 intercourse with all the world. I confess 
 that I haive every confidence in the future 
 of this Dominion. WiUi an enlightened 
 aystem of immigration, with the improve- 
 ment of the Inland Navigation of the coun 
 try, including the St. Lawrence which is 
 the iiatuial ouUet of this vast basin and 
 drained by its tributaries, with a wis^ pru- 
 dentand economical adnudistcatiin of.pub- 
 lie affiiirs, I have no fear thai we shall not 
 oontfaiue to prosper as a happy and united 
 people (ai^Ufuse.) 
 
 Hdn. Mr. CHAPAIS— The mover of the 
 amendment to the present reaOlutkms, 
 having severely criticised them in a speech 
 delivered in French, I feel bound toanaw^ 
 in the same language. - The first complaint 
 of the Hon. Senator for Orandville, is that 
 there is in the present resolutions a viola- 
 tion of the copstitntion by the fact of giv- 
 ing (o British Columbia a larger Representa- 
 tion than she is entiUed to by her popula- 
 tion, and consequenUy a dereliction from 
 eastern interest to the advantage of the 
 western. I will undertake to prove that such 
 is not the case. At the conference held 
 in Quebec in 1864, it was agreed that in 
 the Lower House the representation would 
 be based on population, hut that in the 
 Upper Uosse, there would be equality 
 between the t*o large Provinces of Onta- 
 rio and Qvebeo, and that the three Mari- 
 time Provinces of Nova Scotia, New Bruns- 
 wick and Prince' Edward bland would 
 term a groupt and would beentiUed aa 
 such to an eqiMU auibber of representatives 
 in the second ftoose, thatis to say, twenty- 
 four for the t hr ee- it oektc understood that 
 Nova Scotia a^nd New Brunswick would 
 have ten each, and Prince Edward Island 
 fbor. These pteiininaries, to a certahi 
 extent, had been established at a previous 
 meeting held a«Charlottetown,and at whioh, 
 NewfoundlaDd was not represented. At 
 Quebec this last oolonv had sent two dele- 
 gates, auv'. p!X>vision nad been made for 
 
 her representation in the Federal Parlia- 
 ment, it she choose to join Confederation 
 and it had, moreover, been agreed that in 
 that case she shoald beentmed to four 
 $enat<M irrespective of those of the other 
 Pvovineea, and this the British North Ame- 
 rica Aet shows oleariy and plainly, this 
 yraa loeirtainljr changing the equUbrium 
 fli«t esUhlbfhed, and it was the saiae prin- 
 ciple that has been applied to Itavitoba, 
 and is tioW sought t6 be apblied with 
 ttgHd to ^litidi Cohunbia. The arrange- 
 taents utiat, tiesMotiiig t|ie ntmiber of 
 8Miatork1bi> the Harftime Pvoivhiioes, Was 
 16 be altered When NewftmtklA^d should 
 «nt«r °th6 Utiibn, and it ik certainly just 
 titft What i«»s to be done, in tvrot of the 
 eutem edlcrtiiM, should also be dome f }r 
 the Western ones trhen they etaiter the 
 TJtiion. So. I think that the hob. member 
 has no good gtbahd of complain^ because 
 the Oovemmenl has agreed to give two 
 Senators to Manitoba, and tttree to British 
 Oolumbia. ' If this policy was good with 
 re«peot to the Maritime Provinces, it was 
 equally good with respedt to the western 
 colonies who wished to enter Confedera- 
 tlen. It has been said that agreeing to 
 give six members of the House of Com- 
 ttvMis, and three Senators to British 
 (Columbia, was giving her more than she 
 iras entitled to. Well, I admit that it is 
 BO for the present, but I say that it is not 
 really aii uuostice towards the other Pro- 
 rbioes if we look to the fptare of &at colo- 
 ny, and if we look to ita vast teriitory, 
 Where imtnigrimts will certainly resort in 
 large htunbna belbre miuiy years. If we 
 had given iier only the ejtaet number of 
 representatives to whioh her •otoal popu- 
 lation Vrduld have entitted her, it 
 would have been an ix^ustioe 
 towards her, because the basis of tepre- 
 sentatiou will not be changed 
 for ten years heuce^ and there 
 is no question that before that 
 tittie herpopidation will be vastly increased- 
 By the present arrangement, and by giving 
 three Sdrtatora to British Colombia and two 
 to Manitoba, the western Protinoes would 
 have one SBhator more than the eastern 
 ones if Newfoundland was in the Union. 
 When the terms ot OonHederation were 
 dtMDSsed and agreed to in 1863, the Mari 
 timePtovinees were represented at the 
 Uonfl»r«aoe by men fmiy able to gcard 
 their interests, and it Was Well underetood 
 that a reel confederation oonid not be 
 established withoot at the saoke time 
 uititing the ditttoent Provfasoes by easy 
 means 6f oommnnication, and it was then 
 agreed that the Interoolooial Bailway 
 should be oonstraoted, and commenced 
 WitUusixmottths. Well, the same prinoi- 
 
 Sle must apply with regard to onion with 
 ritish Columbia. The ciroumstanoea of 
 
190 
 
 lent Parlia- 
 mfederation 
 redd that in 
 led to toui- 
 Df the other 
 North Ame- 
 Udttly. This 
 equUbiium 
 etntne prin- 
 
 Maaitoba, 
 lotted with 
 'fhe arrange- 
 
 1 uttmber of 
 roirfaiMa, was 
 lUtgod ahonld 
 nrtainlj jost 
 ftftit of the 
 be dome f >r 
 ej (ftaiter the 
 hoh. member 
 lidn^ became 
 
 to giro two 
 iree to British 
 as good With 
 rinoes, it was 
 the western 
 er Confedera- 
 t agreeing to 
 Duse of Com- 
 •B to British 
 kore than she 
 Imit that it is 
 that it is not 
 the other Pro- 
 re of diat oolo- 
 Tsst tertitorjr, 
 ftinly resort in 
 yean. If we 
 let number of 
 r aotoal |>opu- 
 tted ber, it 
 m ii^astioe 
 basis of tepre 
 
 be ohanged 
 and there 
 before that 
 ostlyhicreaBed' 
 t,andbygiThig 
 lambia and two 
 hrotinoes would 
 IMI the eastern 
 in the Union. 
 Mieration were 
 1803, the Mari 
 wented at tho 
 able to gcard 
 trell understood 
 
 ooqU not be 
 ;he saide time 
 Mrlnoee by easy 
 snd it was then 
 lonial Railway 
 nd oommenoed 
 the sameprinoi- 
 1 to union with 
 liroumstanoes of 
 
 191 
 
 E'ilislt 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 192 
 
 the case are that we have invited that 
 colony to jom us ; delegates hare been 
 BiMit to confer upon the terms of union ; 
 ber geogmphioa) poeitum itae well knowni 
 «Dd no one would think dfbri^^g ber 
 into our ConfederatiOQ without affo^UM 
 her Mople meena oif.oommunloation with 
 ttue UHrger P«9TUioes which inrited her to 
 jdin them. Bntish Columbia baa not dio- 
 tated the terms and oonditions of her 
 union with Caoftda, as that honourable 
 member was pleased to say yesterday, 
 bot we hare objeoted to and amended the 
 temu proposed by her and. the changes 
 hare been aocepted by her delegates. 
 With regard to the ooostruction of the 
 railway I will show that the conditions em- 
 bodied in the resolutions — which are in 
 Iceeping with the policy already followed 
 bythe Government when they agreed to 
 construct the Intercolonial Railway — are 
 much more favourable to Canada than 
 would have been the acceptance of 
 proposition mode by British Columbia. 
 , ^he first instance, here is that proposition : 
 " Inasmuch as no real Union can subsist 
 between this colony and Canada without 
 the spee:jy establishment of communica- 
 tion across the Rocky Mountains by coach 
 road and railway, the Domniion shall, 
 within three years of the date of Union, 
 construct and open for traffic such coach 
 road from such point on the line of the 
 Ufain trunk Road of this Colony to Fort 
 Qiurry, of similar oharaoter to the said 
 ICain Trunk Road; and shall fiirther en- 
 nge toiiae all means in her power to oom- 
 pbtesiwAi ndlway oommumoaiion at the 
 Mrlieet praotioable date, and that surreys 
 to detejMpJne the proper line for such rail- 
 W4y shall pe at once commenced: and 
 a mm of not lew than one million dollars 
 
 shAUbee]4>*'^<^>i>',^*^f77M>^> from and 
 i«Ur thr«e yeans firom the date ef union, 
 in aotiM|Iy oonstructingthe initial sections 
 <i^ sueh rMlwaj from the seaboard of 
 BiiUidi Colamma, to connect with the 
 
 % 
 
 ^ tiSUmf systeto of Cjanada." Such was th^ subsidy in money, and nothing else. The 
 ^O0ii4iti6npr{>p<Med by British Columbia, hon. member s^d yesterday, that it 
 
 but Ute Ooremment would not agree to it, 
 
 although we substituted therefor anotlier 
 
 proposTti6n h^^ing Uie same object in 
 
 riew, that is, the construction of a railway 
 
 ,U> the Pacilie, but without the coach road^ 
 ^his railway, as honourable members are 
 aware, is to be oonstructed in the space of 
 ten years, and begun within two years 
 after union'. So, insteadof two roods, only 
 one is to be constructed. The time has 
 been limited to ten yejirs, because nhen„ 
 the delegates found that they could not 
 hare the coach road mode, they insisted 
 upon fixing a certain tune for the com- 
 pletion of tho railway, and the period of 
 ten years was accordingly agreed to. Dur. 
 ing the first two years after union, 
 
 14 
 
 the proper surreys and explorations will 
 be made, so that we may ascertain ~ the 
 best route to be fallowed, and then pro- 
 ceed to the construction of the road as 
 economically as the circumstances will 
 admit Hon. members hare diaoiu^ed this 
 subject as if the immediate constcuoUonof 
 tlie railroad was under considemtion, And 
 as if we were called upon to rot0 a siun of 
 money to that efbot, but I thin|c the iteso- 
 lutionsnow submittied do not be^ t^.t 
 construction. The matter of fact is 
 that we do not engage to construct the 
 road at all, but that we are only aaked to 
 ratify certain conditions agreed to between 
 the Qorernment and tiie delegates for the 
 admisdon Of Britisl^Columbia into Union 
 with Canada, and amongst others, Uiat a 
 railway shall be built at a future time. 
 ThLf is the only question now before the 
 House : and before the railway is com- 
 menced, the B^use will be called upon to 
 give its opinion on its advisability, and to 
 accept or reject the scheme. 
 
 Hon. Mr. UITBLLIER DE ST. JUST— 
 Does not this oi^gagefnent to construct the 
 railway form part of the" treaty " entered 
 upon with British Columbia ? 
 
 Hon. Mr. CHAP^US— The " engage- | 
 ment " entered upon is the carrying out 
 of Uie scheme of Union with the condition I 
 of the ooBstruction of the railway. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLimt DE ST. JUST— 
 Another memler of the Qovernment has 
 said that the road would he constructed by 
 the Canadian Government. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CHAPAIS— 1 will not deny 
 ^t this may have been said, but I will 
 say that if a member of the Government 
 has said so, he has made a mistake, for the 
 intention of the Government is and has 
 always been to bare the road constructed 
 by a private Company with the help of 
 the Government, and it is the only way 
 it can be made. The road will be oon- 
 structed by means of grants of land and a 
 
 was too soon to begin the road, because we 
 know nothing of the country through 
 which it Is to pass. Weil, t t^k I have 
 clearly demonstrated that if we renlly wish 
 Bntish Columbia to be united with us, we 
 must establish means of communication be- 
 tween that country and Canada. 1 1 is in the 
 interest of both, and it is m the interest of 
 the whole Confederation. It is for the 
 Government to judge of what is in the 
 int«rest of the Dominion, and they think 
 that the sooner the road is constructed, 
 the better it will be fbr the public interest ; 
 but there is no foundation whatever for 
 the assertion made yesterday in this House 
 thit the delegates fromB> itish Columbia had 
 dictated the terms respecting the construe- 
 
198 
 
 British 
 
 [April 4, 1871.] 
 
 ColurMa. 
 
 m 
 
 11 
 I 
 
 
 m 
 
 iion of this road. The conditions offered 
 were foand to be just and rraaonable, and 
 in the bterest of both parties, and they 
 were agreed to by mutual conienty but 
 there was no dictation of terms by them — 
 and such a dictation would not have been 
 submitted to by us. I repeat that the 
 construction of the road is a 
 matter of importance. It ht$ been 
 said also thst there is no imme- 
 diate necessity for the oonstmption of the 
 road to the Pacific, but I am of a contrary 
 opinion, for it maybe safely predioted that 
 when the Northern American Pacific Bail- 
 way is completed, vMs^a branch reaching 
 the Canadian boundary at Pembina^ and I 
 hare recently read in a newspaper that 
 the said branch will be completed during 
 the present year, a certain olaaa of emi- 
 gruits will pour into British territoiy, 
 which it is not our interest to hare. lIHiat 
 has taken plkce in Texas Will be repeated 
 in this instance, and we all know that Texas 
 was wrung from Mexico by the in- 
 flux of emigrants, who went, there in 
 such numbers as to create a mi^jority 
 adverse to the Mexican rule, and it is to 
 prevent a similar rissult that it is impor- 
 tant that we should have a road of our 
 own to cany thither our own people. I will 
 a«k permission of the Senate to read 
 extracts horn a pamphlet I havein my hand, 
 by Which it will be seen what is the feeling 
 of the Americans cm this sulyect : « The 
 , Northern Pacific railway is adrantageonaly 
 situated for the eariy derekmment of a 
 verjr extenaire area, reaching ar into the 
 British poesessions on the North, aod pre 
 Banting a dear field to the Soath of mfl- 
 lions of aores of Jaiid adjacent to it, to be 
 made a feeder US this line br means of .a 
 branch road. nteTaUsvoftlMBedBiTer, 
 which runs almost du« North into Canada, 
 embracing one of the finest wheat regitms 
 in the wwld, will of itaelf for ever ensure 
 to the Eastemend of the road a profitable 
 trade ; and the oonstructton of a North 
 and South ndlroad ti^oogh the Bed Birer 
 Valley, connecting the mihin trunk wiih 
 the region around Lake WlnnhMg. will 
 al ' largely to the burineaaof the Ncillhern 
 ]\v io vne. The elevation ol iaothermal 
 ] . m hasshown that the Northern bouBMiaiy 
 cf : UnitedStates, latitude 49 o, an ima- 
 giua4-7 line, instead ol being the Northern 
 boundary of ouItiTable lands and habitable 
 climate, runs South of a vast body of very 
 superior quality df arable tetritmy, oidy 
 needing railroad fluall t iea for its sucoessfixl 
 development. Extensive settlements are 
 already there knooking at the door..asking 
 American enterprise to open it ana unite 
 their commercial destinies with ours. The 
 age of railroads has sealed the doom of 
 political lines of demarcation, and the pro- 
 gfes* of events is gradually but surely dis- 
 
 seminating on this continent the spirit of 
 self-government, the sure oftpring of 
 increasing popular intelligence, wmoh must 
 eveiitualVi M>d perhaps very 'soon, remove 
 the firail baiileni which now separate the 
 United S^aiM and Canada as Govenunents; 
 but whether the tiro ' oouhtriei ahall or 
 shall not unite speedily in eilorts to deve- 
 lop ,the region lying along the preseif^ 
 boundary on bottt^stdes between the two 
 countries and thus practically remove it. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SANBOBN—Doea the boa. 
 Senator ooincide with those views 7 
 
 Hon. Mr. CHAPAIS-Certainly not,' 
 and it is precisely for that rea- 
 son that I advocate the building of this 
 our road. Well, hon. gentlemen, with 
 views such as thoee expressed in this pam 
 pblet, I must say that if the Government 
 of Canada had neglected the opportunity 
 of acquiring British Columbia and the 
 North West terptories, and delayed to 
 establish immediately a railway line of 
 communication between those territories 
 and the other Provinces of the D<»ninion, 
 they would have been untrue to the peo- 
 ple of this country and undeserving tAeir 
 confidence, but 1 am quite sure the people 
 will ultimately approve what hati been done 
 with respect to this question of railway 
 and union With British Columbia. As I 
 have already said, the intention of tbe 
 Qovemment is to have this road construct- 
 ed by private Companies, and to Krant 
 lands, therefor, and ^ve a moderate sub- 
 sidy in cash. There IS nothing mmsual nor 
 impraoticable in this scheme, fbr the 
 Northern Paoifio railway now Ming boilt 
 in the United States ftom Dolnth to the 
 Padfic^ ii so oonatructed by meana of 
 grants of lands, the United State* Gov- 
 eaaainat granted the Compaity laada 
 amoonting to 2S,800acNa in thetenltorieiL 
 and to one-hatr that amount, or 12,W 
 acres in each atate throu^ whioh the road 
 p a sse s . There has been no money frant, 
 and what can be done m th» 
 United Statea can also be done on 
 our side of the line fbr the same porpoae. 
 If our neighboors can ihusoonRnittt a 
 railway of S^OOO miles long hjxomm of 
 grants, of bud only. I ask wnr should w* 
 not be able todo tne same, with an additi- 
 tion of a moderate rabaidy in eash r And 
 if an American Company finds it of its 
 intereat to make a branch raflwas' to oome 
 to our own territoir, why could we not^^ 
 oonstmot one ourselves . By the oonstouo- ^ 
 tion of the railway now, the value of ii» 
 lands will be increased, and by this means' 
 they will sufiioe fbr thcmsMTM to pro- 
 vide fi>r its construction. Britirii Colnm-' 
 bia has agreed to grant fifteen million 
 acres of luid along the route, and there 
 will be sufRdent or nearly so for the con- ^^ 
 
e spirit of 
 Sspring of 
 
 (m,reiDi0Te 
 pante the 
 varohMiiti; 
 M aball or 
 U tod«Te- 
 lie preMD^ 
 in toe tfwo 
 emoTe it. 
 
 ■ the hoB. 
 
 iwa? 
 
 lainly not^' 
 tlut rea- 
 ihg of this 
 »men, with 
 inthispam 
 JoTerament 
 opportunity 
 Ift and the 
 delayed to 
 ray line of 
 > territories 
 a Dominion, 
 to the peo- 
 srving their 
 B the people 
 u been done 
 i of railway 
 mbia. As I 
 tion of Vi» 
 idoonstTjrfjt- 
 id to {rant 
 tdetate mb- 
 unaitUklnor 
 w, for the 
 b^ng bttUi 
 ilttth to the 
 IT meani of 
 atatek Got- 
 pMBj laoda 
 tetertitoclM, 
 tt, or l%m 
 dohthercwd 
 aooeyffrant, 
 » m th» 
 • done on 
 itoe porpoee. 
 oonAnMi a 
 Dymentf of 
 7 thOold W* 
 Ihaaadditt^ 
 eaaht And 
 ids it of it» 
 way to come 
 >uld we not^ 
 the oonstruo- *^ 
 7alae of the 
 ^ this means' 
 he* to pro- 
 itiah Colom- 
 teen million 
 I, and there 
 I for the oon- 
 
 195 
 
 British 
 
 ISENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 196 
 
 j struction of their part of the rond. Immi- 
 I grants will settle tilong the fohU, and thus 
 I it will prove a lasting benetit to British 
 L>U2'**°*^'^ ^"^^ Canada. f>Uere is what we 
 '^raay expect from the arrangement entered 
 into. The rood la to be ^500 miles long. 
 Twenty mile^ on each side of tbie road, 
 will make 64 million of acres. By giTing 
 a Company erery alternate lot of twenty 
 miles, the quaonty giren will be 32 mil- 
 lions of acres, whiob Ming put down at $1 
 per acre, as estimated yesterday by the 
 bmonrable Senator for <h«nviUe, makes 
 $31^000,000; and if the OoTemment 
 grant also a oaab subsidy, as has been 
 said, of $10,000 per mile of railway, this 
 will amount to $25,000,000, making an 
 aggregate amount of $57,000,000, leaving 
 in tne pbasession of the Government thirty- 
 two milliona of acres in their alternate lots. 
 
 But I think that ihe lands granted will 
 sell, on an average, at about $1.50 per acre, 
 making $48,UUO,OUO, which, with the $25,- 
 000,000 of money grant, will leave only 
 $27,000,000 to beturoubed by the com- 
 pany or companies undertaking the oon- 
 ktruction of the railway, if estimated 
 at $100,000,000, and if at the 
 cost of the Northern Pacific, 
 $21,000,000. Well, this is not an extrava- 
 gant sum, and I ttiink we can easily find 
 companies to undertake the construction 
 of the road at the condition mentioned, 
 in oorroboratkm of these opinions, 1 beg 
 to submit the following extract :— The 
 Illinois Central received a land grant of 
 2,595,000 acres, mainly treeless or water- 
 less prairies. Sales from this grant up to 
 Janoaiy 1, 1869, amounted to $23,793,255, 
 inoludiog interest on deferred payments, 
 and there remained unsold 526,690 acres/ 
 worth $10 per acre. In other words the! 
 lUiMisCantnl's Brant of 2,595.000 araeti 
 wheneli aoM wiu hare yielded the oon^- 
 pany (ally $3(^000,000, an average of morie 
 tkaa $11 per wee, and more than the totu 
 coei«f boikling the road. / 
 
 Xnoh has been said in oonnection wlih 
 the building of tile Intercolonial road, abd 
 much exaggeratkin has been Indulged 
 in. The soheme, it seems to me, is large 
 enough in itself, and its opponents ought 
 not to prf^jqdioe public opinion by adding 
 imaginiry figures to Its real proportions, 
 tfere again lam in a position to show 
 things in their true lioht. Tha ilon. 
 Seuktor for Wellington, Hon. Mr. Sanborn, 
 saki yeat^day that the Northern Pacific 
 BailhMd tiflbred on this qu^^ion a fair 
 mode of edmparison. Well it Is exao^y the 
 -dBobl approximate estimate of the oost of 
 •that road that t am now going to consider. 
 From Duluth on Lake Kuperioe to FUget 
 Sotitid on the Faolfle, (he distance is two 
 thousand miles, divided into six sections, 
 
 the cost of which respectively is given in 
 detail and recapitulated as follows : 
 
 Grading', masonry, bridging, 
 
 tracic and ballast 160,320,000 
 
 Sidingi 4,200,000 
 
 Contingencies, including Su- 
 perintendance and En- 
 gineering.. . 5,000.000 
 
 Telegitaph Line. 600,000 
 
 BuUdiiigs 3,312^000 
 
 RoUiiJg stock. 3,615,000 
 
 FJorming the amount of . $76,047,000 
 
 To which is added interQst pa 
 
 oohaiTover receipts dur- 
 
 ihg construction 7,230,000 
 
 1 Total $83.277,00() 
 
 Now if we apply those figures 
 to our own road, which is 
 poo miles longer, and add 
 Ifor tbat "purpose the ap- 
 /portionate amount, viz : . . 20,814,2.50 
 
 Th4 exact figure to which we 
 
 j arrive is 1104.091,250 
 
 Le$s 10 per 100 discount on 
 
 I American money, in round 
 number... 10,091,250 
 
 We have the real approximate 
 
 cost of the road $94,000,000 
 
 The honourable member for Toronto 
 (jHon. Mr. McPberson) said yesterday that 
 there was nothing in the resolutions to 
 commit us to the construction of the 
 whole length mentioned by me, but that 
 we would only; be boimd to connect the 
 seaboard of British Columbia with the rail- 
 way system of Canada, and that it could 
 be done through the American Pacific 
 Railway when built from Pembina to 
 Fort Osrry. Well, I do notdeny that tiiis 
 woiild be a proper way to make a tempor- 
 ary connection, but only until it would be 
 possible for us to have a road of our own 
 on our territory. The construction of the 
 rosd from Fort Qany to tke Booky Moun- 
 tains i^ adoJdtted to be an easy task, but 
 the ioiite f^m the Rocky Mountains to 
 the |faaifi9 ^ast has been made a bugbear 
 or|oi,deteir the members of this House 
 froiHi voting for the resolutions. I know tlut 
 thjt part of the route west of the 
 Rdeky Mountains is difficult to over- 
 come ;' but I know also that the easiest 
 pass through those mountains is to be 
 found on our territory. The Yellow Head 
 
 f>aBS is coniparatively easy and is only 3,600 
 (set above the sea, and it is so easy tlut 
 when the gold fields of British Columbia 
 were discovered, a party of mora than one 
 hundred emigrants, with baggage and live 
 stock, went througn it, and only-ftmnd 
 that they had crossed it when they were otf 
 
Pi 
 
 mm 
 
 197 
 
 British . 
 
 [April 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbja 
 
 198 
 
 tbe other side, and they reached Fnuer 
 river without atiy iiDpednneBt or trouble, 
 llie diiianoe from Fori Oarry to the Rooky 
 Honntains, l,l25inilea, ia of a&eaay char- 
 acter, and the 000 milei following through' 
 the sea of Homrtaiiia, (•■ it baa bean call* 
 ed) ia difficult, but nnoh lata ao an pur 
 side thin on the Ameiioan territorT', where 
 two lUMa are being obnatruoted. Aa Ibr 
 tbe aigUttient advancecl that eaugriuti^ 
 might ttM the American railway to »— dH 
 Fort 6amr and the Pacific, I must say that 
 if it WM found impoaiiUe to ooaatmet a 
 road of our own, it wmddcbHainlj baan 
 advantage to uae it, 1)0 if tint obnathic- 
 tltfn ia ]wbsible, as I am qoita oonvinoad it 
 is, it would be far more in our interest to 
 buOd it and control it than to b« d^nd- 
 ant on a line held by atmhgMii Th* still 
 fresh reraemberance of thainpreiaion pro- 
 duced on me by tbe readinig Of a cer- 
 tain document dt raeeat ' date, and 
 emanating from a kind neighbour has 
 strongly impressed that necessity on my 
 mind. The argument adduced that it was 
 proposed to construct a road tfaroDj^ an 
 unlmown country, the diffioulliea of which 
 would be insuperable in my opinion has 
 but very little weight. 1 think that we 
 may say that there is now nothing impossi- 
 ble to railway engineera of the present day. 
 When we see that within ten yean a tun- 
 nel haa been pierced through the 
 Alps for the passage of a raUvray; at an im- 
 mense cost, and that during t^e 
 progress of the boring of the reputed !:«• 
 Buperable Widl, the oonstruction, of » rittl> 
 roacl has allowed tbe daring m^ift^A i^ 
 ai^aka tSwcPofabeaof the un^ttirbad i^li- 
 tude of the Simplon, w4 BaHjr itir 
 that ifi^ bflbstrUctfon Of a tattoo Raihnlj^ 
 throi^ the Booky Itouatalitf U k 6tim- 
 piMT9|y;#i7tiak. As for th<i oltiti^fa 
 an^ tbtrfiitl^ of the »otl of British <;^- 
 umbiM. I dan proi^ that they ire mtM! 
 farc^i^le to odlMiytflOn. HOra Unha 
 1 IM on thiM l^bj^ iii fb» rApOMOf 
 the|!ipfe«rl»f t^ OMjbnd PMifio BoadL. 
 aiy^MSF^^Iitea- •'Ilxb niUttBli'irathMyi^ 
 n^tdRi aa Talloy of th* 
 abtfot la«Mda 51 o . Ilia 
 
 Clev, ,, 
 
 on tlua oo&j 
 
 FJigpe, 
 
 gfowlfag 
 
 ThMevaltt)tbU> 
 
 for the wiiit of 
 
 h<re ItiOieitb I(Mi . 
 
 ai«4«ltbedi^WiiiW; 
 
 to_ '■ ■ " ■ 
 
 thAVoIiKiiil^itt 
 eUiihHs^^ito or n^i 
 
 h|||Yddt 
 tb9'<it'(itt!n 
 qhuiist^r a« 
 
 regions to the North, sin6e ezparienca has 
 
 shown that the ohillins effect of high lati- 
 tude, so marked on the Atlantic coast, is 
 obviatid by the influence of the Padfio 
 Ocean, and perhaps other causes not yet 
 thorough^ elabonltei} or qivdarrtood. m- 
 oauaa th« Booky ttoOntalna ibtervanO 
 biJttriMireiukictt inii l^tWi Ooilftimbi^ it 
 nMM not Va itiflbttiM' iikt OftiAoloootoBy 
 is ol Of ilaittift du^i^r M om Moon- 
 taiia; TfHidJt itim m M^lOmtMn pvtr- 
 L fbi» iiitm», • tr»TalUr 
 mM Aitttf W looks at its 
 Ha^ M ^lUoC oohoaiira thai 
 ii or stick a splendid 
 it Ui iioi^^ to baT roupd 
 LA6 St John abirabawh^. Well, itia 
 tba same with Bniliih Golombia, and tha 
 tarritorDw north of lalu Sdperior, for tBa 
 whole len^h of the rOad, and I have 
 pioredthat Once the Hooky M<>untains are 
 piused, tba country ia aa m? ouraMe as any 
 part of Canada with respeot to dimata, 
 aoU, timber, fto. Rafening again to tha 
 route of the PaoiSo road, t firmlv believe 
 that ail easy passage will be found on pro- 
 per surveys being made. I may mention 
 as tlie result of surveys in parts of the 
 country better known than l^e Rodcy 
 Mountains, ' and the region betwean 
 Fort Ga:ry and Lake Temisoaming, 
 that part of the country^ wUoh haa been 
 so long settled, tJie Temisoooata road, 
 which waa used for fifty yearn ^u tha only 
 meand of inlanri communicatkma between 
 GaaMda and New Branswiel^ had been 
 established on "aseacrf moiutalnt," and 
 nobody knew of a battw routai Bilt Ifhta 
 later engiaeara explored tha«oUBt»y, itimy 
 foAod at.y^aotiylaval traet andltUiariMMa 
 is BMr fbikvaed. Tbe aaaa jmht ba< aald 
 of tinrrOMA.taiitoea QuMbaa aai lak» St. 
 Jeba. Up ta« recant data^itivai^tliMMht 
 that the cwamy betwean QatfwoaitdTAa 
 StrJohot WM ae brak«n!Mdarf%llKftB» 
 pnwtiettbloMad could bahaU^ aManaiX' 
 pkMatfan par^ aent liy tka iwwOiitfcbla 
 aiamber oppoaite ina (Sbaa%: >MEr. liatld' 
 
 ti.fiar da St, Juf t) ifhila ha waaintbaGonnp- 
 mieittt^pdrtad uafiitooniblroatliaaa^t 
 and tbo ptfty llh««iaelV0a ^ t^ on tha 
 verge otik^mHHlsM, IMBiiio and hiiMar« 
 but Oit tba iM^itmmii* iba7 raoSvad 
 fhttn soma bunibtti miy mat in tho 
 woods; Wall, MOitb fim» aflttr loAv Alter- 
 ing tho QevanmMin^ * genflamha oimif^^tb: 
 
 ' me and assured nia of tha axiataitea oCs 
 flivnnnble roate'lov tha donittMo^ df a 
 road. Iwaa at fittt ditbM^jiisibd wt i^Mod 
 «ijm«pa money for that jpiuhsya, amr 
 Hu raiiilti of ti^iaa pMn(n& mfn*, ^ 
 fit g*itUtt4h ipoka ao MnfidOtiiQr. mt I 
 it lut oonatinted to auOodaa i^|offi<fr 
 
 lft1;M,<-,Ktld, I must aay, tbA t^ 
 ioirinqr ttiM higldy aUbdlMAil 
 iliidreMated in tha oonatruotlOn of tha 
 present beautiful road to' Lake St. John. 
 
198 
 
 high lati- 
 : coMt^ifl 
 le PMifio 
 la not ret 
 tood. Be- 
 intervene 
 JtfmbMs it 
 
 [QliBOOlOllir 
 
 (MMotm- 
 »tion piir- 
 , tMTe&er 
 i>6Ita»tit» 
 lO^Vetbei 
 a si^ltindid 
 be, roofict 
 Weil, it is 
 ia, and the 
 Or, for flie 
 >d I have 
 intaina are 
 aMe as any 
 bo dimate, 
 iln to th* 
 nly believe 
 nd on t>ro- 
 ly mention 
 arts of the 
 l&« Booky 
 I between 
 nisoaming, 
 i baa been 
 oata road, 
 8 the only 
 OS between 
 
 had been 
 Mak," and 
 
 Bttt ifhto 
 otttij', tfwy 
 ittUi»i«M» 
 anrlb*' Mid 
 A lake ft«. 
 
 lewhdTaho 
 ilfylka*B» 
 baadliati«X' 
 hMiddttbl* 
 Mr. Ltm- 
 th«Gom|i- 
 ithesaqlMtt 
 B» on the 
 iod hiiMer. 
 lityreoiel^edl 
 a»t la Hur 
 r fitf «ntor- 
 
 tfm.OHtb^.tO: 
 
 ■db6bai3«il 
 tlOn of the 
 ;e St, John. 
 
 199 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 200 
 
 The name of the man who had found the 
 route is Jean Gagnon, nnd I feel much 
 pleasure in publicly acknowledging 
 the services he has thus renderea 
 to the whole Province of Quebec. In 
 view of these facts 'I have not 
 the least doubt that an easy passage wUl 
 yet be found for the Paoifio3ailway throui^ 
 that section not actually known to travel- 
 lers aaol lUMarreyed. The section betwven 
 the Lake of the Woods and Tamiea»> 
 mino. As proof of my opinion and in. 
 vinmcation of the aotion of the Govern- 
 ment in this moat important transaction, 
 I feel authorised to quote » few more ex- 
 tracts of an eauellent work recently pub- 
 lished on *The Red Kiver Count^,^' by 
 AUsaoder Q Russell, C. A,, to show that 
 even this last section represented as 
 "term inoognita" is not so much so as al- 
 leged. Speaking of "A Roihroad to Had 
 River by the Valley of the Otfawa," the wri- 
 ter si^s : 
 
 "The probability of a direct railroad 
 route being formed by the valley of the 
 Ottawa to Red River, has been to a great 
 degree contirmad, as already mentioned 
 by the recent survey of the- Montreal 
 Wver, a tributary whiih joins the <.)ttaw(i 
 in LftKe Temiscaming. 
 
 Hon. Hr. SKKAD— Hear. hear. This 
 is the important route. 
 
 Hen. Mr. CHAPAia-This i-oute, for a 
 railway to the Pacific, was, I believe, first 
 proposed by Colonel Carmichael Smith, 
 probably from information obtained from 
 officers of the Hudson's B&y Company." 
 "Strictly speaking, a strai^t lliie from 
 Montreal to Fort Giirry would touch the 
 nOrthttly bays of Lake Superior, h^ai' |t6 
 Islands and the country along the shom 
 of ther btkM, well Icnown to m mooattA^- 
 ona'aiitf ibiuiuiwble jK>r a railway Un0 : IMt 
 a^' it i»^lkt(»m the dtnmtnr behind is num, 
 fiif(Mnl^9. tend aa th« ItagUi of the lUb. 
 wotudnoc be inoreued'ln any appreciable 
 dd]n«ebyokrrying it forty milee further' 
 nmki butxm the oontranr, pfobaUy be 
 sillily ditniniahed, b/ having much f(Mr- 
 er minor sinuositiea from bemg in better 
 grottiuL it is assomed that Our route 
 watM be carded th«re. 
 
 "This oharaoter of the country whioh 
 has loaig been Well known to the offioera 
 of the lluda<ni'8 Bay Company, and has 
 been oOnfinned as far asreoent sunwys 
 of the Qortiwfly waters of the Ottawa have ,„,„.^.„„ 
 
 •**!°ttiJ^^*?^*®^'.^JJ*^*,^"'" inhabit*!." Inapittf of the iMtgdkybut 
 veyorH«rridk,mhia report of huexpIoM. iimport«it«t«ote already qnotiad, lean 
 Uwy survey m the country north of Uk*. »ot««IWn ftflm antanilting to yOB *• twc 
 superior. - ■ - 
 
 ife says:— <• From enqs 
 aoaoapt the Lidiaasi aswelliaaftom ^fa» 
 olBoers of the Hudiion's Bay Company, 
 
 country, I am informed that after from 
 thirty lo fifty miles of hilly country, round 
 Lake Superior, is passed, a level country 
 is reached, whioh extends from the height 
 of land between Lake Superior add 
 the Red River settlement east 
 for several hundred miles and alon^ 
 the north of the sources of the tri- 
 butaries of the 'Ottawa, that if at any 
 future period it may be proposed to con- 
 nect Canada with the Red River settle- 
 ment by railroad, it does not appear that 
 much difficulty will be experienced on 
 this part of the route." The same dis- 
 cription of the intervening country has 
 long been given by officers of the Hud- 
 son's Bay Company, stationed on the 
 northern waters of the Ottawa. 
 
 " In the unsurveyed region before men- 
 tioned, the greatest difficulty will proba- 
 bly be eiusountered between the river 
 Nipigon and Lac Leul, in the rise to the 
 wateiished: but that is necessarilly less 
 thui five hundred feet or not more than 
 will be met on the Intercolonial Railway 
 before getting twenty miles from the St. 
 Lawrence. 
 
 "These details are gone into so fully 
 because it is not generally known that we 
 have a favourable and most direct route to 
 Red River short jr than any other can be." 
 
 "Therefore, if we do not have a railway 
 through our own territory to Red Kiver, it 
 certainly will not be tocause we luive not 
 a favourable route for it, but for want of 
 sufficient inducements or necessity for 
 making it. 
 
 " The level clay country of the Korth, 
 through whioh tius route paeees, seemingly 
 for four hundred mlle% presents as yet, no 
 indtebement, whatever to open it. But 
 When tiw navigation of the Ottawa is im- 
 
 Sroredi as far the Mattawan two hundred 
 liteeabeve tlusOapital aoomparative small 
 '■ (txpenditurevfill carry it hundreds of miles 
 , further, to the head of LakeTemisoomfaig. 
 This wiU entirely change the prospeot of 
 setttement not only of the good Lands 
 there but also eventually of the.olay coun- 
 try beyond it, should the s<h1 of that great 
 extent of entirely arable lands, prove as 
 oapableof improvement by cultivation as 
 other day soils are." 
 
 " It is diffionlfe to omoeive that a country 
 fully equal to Fialaaid with the great water 
 
 2 Item of Uie Ottawa leading direotly to it 
 oold renn^ for ever valnelesa and un- 
 
 who have travelled much through the 
 
 follofWteg andlait onefe: I wHsiirftoiaed 
 by that experienoMI ofBeiti^ Provineial 
 StHPveyor Salter that en maUng an ex- 
 aodnation Northward heyond the end of 
 his line of survey near latifude 48 <=> North 
 
 P'^'Dl' 
 
MR 
 
 201 
 
 British 
 
 [April 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 208 
 
 he entered the level oUy country, of the 
 north, at About twenty four miwa north 
 of hi* line of •urvey, and found the aur- 
 face Tery gently undulating and covered 
 with a fair growth of tall maple, biz«h and 
 epruoe treat.— the .uptiuned roc«ta ahowing 
 a Mil entirely free frum •tones. Frona an 
 eminence before entering it there were no 
 hilli visible Northward, aa'ihr as he coald 
 explore the horiion witb his telescope, and 
 the change from the rugged sterile country 
 and poor growth of womb traversed by the 
 exploring lines ran by -him and Mr. 
 Sinchdr nearly on the parallel of lat. 48 « 
 Nortii to the luxuriant woods of level 
 country, was very strilting." 
 
 This actual verification of the position 
 and charucter o: the level clay 7!Duntry of 
 the North, miaway between the Montreal 
 Kailway or West branch of the Ottawa and 
 Lake Superior, is so far very important, 
 coniirming, by connexion with definite sur- 
 vey, the uct that we hare there a good 
 oouiitry for a railway line and also for set- 
 tlement. 
 
 "The Geological Survey of Lake Nipigon 
 confirms and corrects the report of its 
 great extent given by Mr. Armstrong. The 
 area of its surface is equal to two-thirds of 
 Lake Ontario. As far as is known by the 
 survey of its shores— about 500 milea of 
 circuit— nearly half of the land on it seems 
 arable ; and the presence of trap rock in- 
 dicates a rich soil,— adding much to the 
 extent of land known to be fit for settle- 
 ment on the proposed direct line of rail- 
 road to Bed River." 
 
 The andertaking of that road is not be- 
 yond the DDpans of Canada, fiur Iciss now 
 than was the undertaking of otbar large 
 public works a<Hne fifteen or twanty yeara 
 ago. Oknadahas already oar'iad outworks 
 far more costly and important than any 
 other oouQtiy luving the same pi^uhUioii, 
 and as she is now much stronger than she 
 was when she undertook those works, I 
 think that she may siafely go on in bar 
 car«er of progress and Mvanee. This is 
 the <mly way by which we may hope to 
 preserve the e istence of British rule in 
 Canada, and by which we may hope to Uvd 
 and die undar the glorious British Flag. 
 
 Hon. Mr. ALLAN.— In view of the length 
 of time which this debate has akeady oc- 
 cupied, I d9 not proppse to treqNUH vmoa 
 the attention of the House for more than 
 a few minutas, especially as 1 cannot tope 
 to throw aiur additionallighton the sub- 
 ject, or to add anything of importance to 
 what has already been aakl in reference to 
 these vasolutions. However, in a matter 
 invplving such important interests— affect- 
 ing not merely one sisotion but the whole 
 Dominion, 'and espedally thtf Province 
 
 with which I am more immediately connect- 
 ed, I am reluotant to give a silent vote, and 
 shall, therefore, ask your indulgence for a 
 few moments whilst I sute very briefly the 
 considerations which induoe me to support 
 the resohitions and vote against the 
 amendment proposed by my bon. ft'iend 
 from OrandvUie. In the flnt plaoe I con- 
 sider the annexation of British Columbia 
 as absolutely aeoessary to oomplato the 
 great woric of Confederation-^ work in 
 which all those who took part in it bave 
 reason to feel no small pride. Of all the 
 acts of the public men of this ootmtiy, ir- 
 respective of party, I knew of none to 
 which they may look back with more pride 
 and satisfkotion than to those neasures 
 which have so far sucoessf^y resulted m 
 laying the foundations of a great firituh 
 North Ametioan nationality on this contin- 
 ent. I am aware that there are many able 
 and honest men, both in Canada and the 
 Maritime Provinces, who were oppoeed to 
 Confederation at the outset, but with 
 scarcely an exception all of them have now 
 accepted the ' situation, and have shown 
 their readiness to direct theii best ener- 
 gies to strengthen and build up the new 
 Dominion. Those who firom the first have 
 taken an active part in supporting Confed- 
 eration have every reason to feel sa^sfled 
 at the results which have been already at 
 tained.. Anyunprejndiced person looking 
 back to what has taken place since 1867 
 cannot but aoknowledge, that great and 
 increasing prosperity has marked the oourse 
 of the Dominion since that period. The 
 trade between the Inland and Maritime 
 Provinces has beisn developed to'a wonder- 
 full extent, and we have every roasop to 
 hop9 that it will assume immense pn^por- 
 tioas, and the result Of Gpnfbdemiki^ so 
 far, instead of being a sonroe of ruin end 
 bankmptcf , as some of its opponaste were 
 so fbai of propheqrin^ has beeita'Bpdi^l 
 but steady increase in Che trade aaaeom- 
 merce end the national jiroqperitgr of the 
 whole Dominion. But I do not Io<di npott 
 the improvement In our national ooodiuoa 
 as the only important result prooeedmg 
 bom Confederation. There ace other con-^ 
 ditions which £ view as of equal, if not 
 greater, importance. No refleoting man, 
 kxriring upon our ^graphicfd poeiuon in 
 reference to the powerfiil repnblio on our 
 southern borders, and considering the 
 many changes which have tdcMi place 
 both in the circumstances of the oonhtiy 
 and in our relations towards the llother 
 Coontry, but must repeatedly have dUked 
 bimseu within the paat few year*, what is 
 to be the ftiture of Canadians uid their 
 descendants on this continent ? I venture 
 toafllrmthat it is the eatvest hope and 
 frish of the vast majority of the people of 
 
202 
 
 jroonneot- 
 ivote, and 
 snc* for a 
 brie^ the 
 (0 support 
 DUiMt tbs 
 lOD. friend 
 hmloon- 
 , Columbia 
 ipl«to the 
 « work in 
 
 in it taave 
 X aU the 
 ountiy, ir- 
 f none to 
 nor* pride 
 
 niMMorea 
 remlted m 
 ««t Brituh 
 ihiaoontin- 
 many able 
 d«and the 
 opposed to 
 but with 
 n have now 
 are . shown 
 
 best ener- 
 lip the new 
 e first have 
 ing Confed- 
 
 tel saV*^*'^ 
 already at 
 ion looking 
 > since 1867 
 great and 
 libeooune 
 riod. The 
 d Maritime 
 o'a wonder- 
 f nasop to 
 OS* nnqpor- 
 
 of rain and 
 oneatewera 
 
 • aodoom- 
 Aty of the 
 tbxriiapott 
 alcmMfiuoB 
 
 prooeedmg 
 
 • other oon^ 
 )ual, if not 
 [acting nuMv 
 
 posittonin 
 ablio jOb oar 
 laering the 
 takMi plaoe 
 (be couhtrjr 
 the Mother 
 
 hatrei^ed 
 Muna, what is 
 OS and their 
 t I venture 
 St hope and 
 lie people of 
 
 203 
 
 Brilith 
 
 (SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia 
 
 204 
 
 this country tfantthe oonnection which has 
 so long subsisted between , us and the 
 glorious Empire of which we form a part, 
 may long continue as it is now (cheers). 
 But if the time ever does arrire when wei 
 shall have grown out of that state, it will,\ 
 I am persuaded, be muc% the earnest wish 
 of all the people of the rominion, that we 
 should then preserve our distinct national 
 iBdependenoe . as a British American 
 Confederation [hear, hear]— a Confed- 
 eration oomposed of a people whose 
 descendaats, we may hope, will exhi- 
 bit some of the best characteristics of 
 the races from which they have sprung— 
 of the cool-headed, persevering English- 
 man J the "canny" ^kx>t, the warm, im- 
 pulsive Irishman, and the gallant sons of 
 brave old Frunoe, (cheers), — the whole 
 forming a nationality which shall be able 
 to preserve its identity and independence 
 CO this Continent, nnd continue for 
 generations to come, as a happy and pros- 
 perous people. There nre some, I know, 
 who look upon such aspirations as vision- 
 ary, and who do not participate in 
 them, but I believe they-are very fe\v, and 
 that the great majority of the people of 
 this country, consider the building up of 
 a great British American Confederation as 
 an object worthy of earnest and pErtriotic 
 iiioi. whether in or out of Parlian^ent, 
 and that all our policy and legislation 
 should be shaped with that end in view. 
 If these things be so. then no one can 
 doubt that the admiasidn of British Col- 
 umbia into the Dominion is an actual ne- 
 eessity. tlya^ without it the «ork of Con- 
 fedeiauon would be altogether incomplete 
 and Our. position on this Continent would 
 b4 both polltiosUy and oommereiaUy nmeh 
 lass wtaSn apd advantageous. Listening 
 attetetivtlr to tho dobate, it appeared to 
 me that tne only really serious stumbling 
 blook vrbioh has presented itself to the 
 minds of tlie honommble members, is the 
 oonstmction of what has been variously 
 called the Tkani-Continental, the Inter- 
 Oceanic, and the Canadian Padfio BaUway, 
 but it uso appears to mo after the beet 
 consideration I am able to give this sub- 
 ject, that the obetaoles in the wav of the 
 successful aooomplisliment of tms great 
 enterprise are not so formidable as to bo 
 beyond our powers of surmounting them 
 and that sMne of the diffioiilties suggested , 
 have been entirely' the oreatiCHi m hon. 
 genUemeh's own imagination. One would 
 suppose firom what has been said by the 
 opponents of ttiese resolutions, tnat if 
 they are carried, we are to rush blindly 
 into the oonstmction of the Pacific Rail- 
 way without any regard to expense, 
 or the possible burthens which may 
 be imposed upoi^ this country — that we 
 were going into it rashly and without tak- 
 
 ing time to devise the most eoDnoniical as 
 well as the most speedy method of carry- 
 ing it out. It seems to me that there is 
 nothing in these resolutions to justify the 
 oonclusions ai, which some cf my hon. 
 friends have arrived. The time must come 
 When we shall have a railway across the 
 Continent, entirely through British Terri- 
 tory, and complete and direct oommunica-, 
 tion with our Canadian system of railways, 
 but while working to that end why should 
 we not make use of all means within our 
 reach to establish a railway connection with 
 the North West and British Columbia, at 
 the earliest possible day and at the least 
 possible expense. If tho American rail- 
 ways afford us any facilities or advantages 
 in doing so, I do not see why we should 
 not make uje of them. My hon. friend 
 on my left (Mr. Macpherson) has pointed 
 out that by availing oureelves of the Am- 
 eriom lines of railway touching our bor- 
 ders at Pembina, and making the eastern 
 terminus of our own railway for the pre- 
 sent to connect with them, we can tlten 
 build the road from Fort Garry westward, 
 and thus establish communication with 
 British Columbia at a comparatively rea- 
 sonable cost, and without imposing any 
 excessive burdens upon the Dominion. 
 My hon. friend, I am sure, did not, for a 
 moment, intend to be understood as sug- 
 gesting the abandonment of a diieot line 
 entirely through our own territory, but 
 simply that for the present we should avftil 
 ourselves of any faculties within our reacb, 
 to cany out sutwtantially one of the prin- 
 cipal objects of these resolutions, and 
 wnile domg so. afford ample time and op- 
 portilbity for exploring and dedding upon 
 the best route for what is confessedly the 
 most difficult part of the whole line, vis: 
 that part of it between Ontario and Fort 
 Garry. 
 
 Therefbre, honourable genUemen, it ap- 
 pears to me that if this great work is un- 
 dertaken in the careful and prudent man- 
 ner in which I think it may do done, the 
 only really serious difficulty in the propos- 
 ed scheme fbr the admission of British Col- 
 umbia hito the Union is done away with and 
 whatever may be the difforenoe ot opinion 
 in respect to other conditions of the union 
 the objections do not appear to me to be 
 of sufficient force to warrant the rejection. 
 I have great faith in the ftiture of this 
 D<nnmion, with our fertile soil, our miner- 
 al riches, our vast forests, our oxtensive 
 fisheries ; and a population rapidly increas- 
 ing in ntimbers and wealth I nave no fear 
 but that our resources will be developed 
 to an extent quite sufficient to enable 
 OS to meet all out engagements 
 heavy though . they may be. I 
 do not say that we have any right to look 
 forward to a career of uninterrupted pros- 
 
 N 
 
^m 
 
 203 Britiih 
 
 perity; unfurourableiaaaon*, badhKnrMU. 
 und oooaaionnl depreHlons m trtde, in»jr 
 •very now and then interpoM a temporary 
 oheok to our proaperity ;■ but we have no 
 reiwon to antfeipate that it wlU be more 
 than a temporary oheok. 
 
 Laat eTeniag an honourable gentleaun 
 opposite from-^ew Brunewiek read a loog 
 •straot from one of SMney Saith'a letten 
 in whioh thit witty divine ezpatifated verr 
 bitterly on the wortUeMneae of Peaqpl- 
 ▼aniaa bondii and Ameriean aeouritiee in 
 general, and the honourable gentleman 
 talcing that na bis text, prophoaied that if 
 we passed these resolutiou the time 
 would oome when tome futuro Sidney 
 Smith, sh^uhl in like manner bemoan 
 himielforer worthleas Dominion seouritiea 
 And British Columbian bonds I Well, 
 honorable gentlemen are no doubt all fa- 
 miliar with Lord Maoaulay's imagintry 
 " NewZealander' sitting amid ruin and 
 desolation, on one of the broken arohes of 
 London Bridge, and contemplating the 
 remains of Ut. Paul's Cathedral and other 
 famous ediKces of the once metropolis of 
 the world ! but London still stands ; and 
 I would fain hope that the honourable gen- 
 tleman's forecast of the future, may take 
 aa long to folfil aa Lord Uaoaula^'s, and 
 that the passage of these resolutions, in- 
 stead of having the baneful effects which 
 he ontioipates, will preve but another step 
 in advance in the material prosperity and 
 politioal power of the whole Dominion. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SEYMOUB— It appean to me 
 that the hon. gentleman who has just 
 spoken has forgotten to oonsider theques- 
 tK>n of the cost of tfaie soheine of Union, 
 and the heavy burlbeos whioh it mast ne- 
 oessarily entail upon the ooontiy. The 
 postmaster Oenend, who spoke at oonai- 
 denble length on this question, aad 
 placed the matter in the best ligh^h* 
 oould, re' rred to the advantages of f«il- 
 way oommuaioattoa, and stated that the 
 oonntry had oon^eted n raUwur system 
 whidi had co£4. 9160,<XK),O0O. Tbet was 
 •Dtirely new to me— I «m i|ot aware th»t 
 QimHftiiaa erer oonpleted sueh a system ; 
 but I do know that «XLOOO,000 were ad- 
 vaneed as a loan to oertam railway compa- 
 nies, and this si'jn still remains unpaid up 
 to this aoomeBt. My hon. friend has »Iao 
 stated in a voy .positive manner that the 
 country is. abundantly able to oonstivet 
 thepropoaOd railway; and the hon. gen- 
 tleman went book to the history of this 
 country firom tbe Urionof the Canadas, 
 when there was • debt of over $5,000,000. 
 I will not follow my hon. friend so far 
 book as 1841—1 o-a show, however, 
 that there has been a ra^tid iocrease 
 of debt and tlwt our acstts amount 
 really tc nothing. I will foUow my 
 hon. friend to 1864, which was an 
 
 [April 4, 1871.] 
 
 ColuHtbia. 
 
 206 
 
 eventful period in the history of this 
 Country— It was the time of the formttion 
 of the Oartier-Maodooaid ooiaition~lt was 
 also a time when nearly all the pablio in- 
 provementsorthisooontrj, inoiwdingthe 
 Oanals and Raihrara, were eompletad. In 
 1864, oar debt, diraot aad ladiMot, was 
 •18,000,000. At tbe date of Cofifwl 
 esatien oar debt was ITSfSWrOOO thewteg 
 anavaiage inarMBe of 12,500,000 ayaar 
 fbr twalva y^ara, at a time, too, whenoom- 
 perativeljr utile money wae being espend- 
 ed fbr pablie improvemenls. This aliowe 
 that the Oovamiaent were really borrow- 
 ing to pay enrrent expenaes and interest. 
 The same state of thingi has oontinued 
 sinoe Oonfederation— the average inorease 
 is 910,000,000 a year. The total debt ii 
 now at least 8100,000,000. 
 
 Hon. Mr. 
 880,000,000. 
 
 CAMPBELL— No, mora like 
 
 Hon. Mr. SE YMOUR-It is at leastflOO, ■ 
 000,000 Some say it is nearer 8120,000,- 
 000, There has also been a large inorease 
 of taxation since the period of 1854, and 
 the Dominion has really little or nothing 
 in the shape of productive assets to show 
 for its enormous debt. Under these cir- 
 oumttanoes, I would like to know how 
 this road to the Faoiiic is to be construct- 
 ed, for it will cost from 81 00^000,000 to 1 50,- 
 090,000 which must be provided out of the 
 revenues of this country, (" No, No," from 
 tha government benohes.) It must be 
 remembered, too, that since Gonfaden- 
 tMo, we have agreed to baild tbe Intar- 
 ooloaial Jtailwajr— the BaUwun in the 
 provhMes ot ITova Sootia and Now Bruns- 
 wiok are all Gotammpnt wodk^ whioh we 
 ha»a tO'keep qp ata larfaooett^thanz- 
 QlMifaar. How is tha <.-ev«QVf te oa la- 
 craMed to maet theaa ?ialii'itta>l Daring 
 the laatseSMon waaaw how dilBnili It was 
 teimttoaaaemaUtas on oofl aad.«ther 
 artioles. tbitmaiwurAV'^itOlltlrroiirikad. 
 I ^aire my support ip iha Goyammant on 
 the qu«*tion Depawol tboogjlt U)«r naidly 
 cequvred the lavaMa. iNiiUf tba pmsant 
 sarpion tbagr bara ha«n aotoally forced 
 to ropeiil the tax, In ttia very fiMe 
 of Modertaking an axpendltufa of nearJj 
 91{iO,O00,00a If these resolutions are 
 .passed the jEaith of tba Govern- 
 ment will bf, pledged to the pajrsMnt 
 of the cost of cohstraotiBg tha load, 
 the resolutiiHu will hava baOOme law. and 
 the Qovemment will be bound bj tnem. 
 Tou must then ohose one of two avUs— 
 jrbu must carry out the law, or repudiate 
 your legal ouigatioos. As respects the 
 amount of money which is to be handed 
 over to British Columbia, I refer to tbe 
 8100,000 a year in prospective, it really 
 amounts to a ; capital of two millions of 
 dollars, for the purcha,<ie of lands of which 
 
 # 
 
 an,md 
 waste! 
 
206 
 
 >ry of tbU 
 t fom^tioo 
 km— U wKB 
 poUio in- 
 itadingtlM 
 ptoUd. In 
 idiNot, wfts 
 of Conted- 
 OO ihoiHiig 
 
 000 sytAT 
 ,wlMaoom- 
 ng«>p«Ml- 
 TUaaliows 
 llf borrow- 
 ad iatorMt. 
 
 1 oontinued 
 kg9 inorvMe 
 »Ul debt is 
 
 I, mor«like 
 
 ^tleuttlOO.- 
 •r 9120,000,- 
 trge inoroase 
 of 1854. and 
 e or nothing 
 «ets to show 
 Br these oir- 
 a know how 
 M ooDstruct- 
 )0,000tol50,- 
 ied out of the 
 fo, No," from 
 It mutt be 
 k Confedera- 
 ls the later- 
 «%n in tbe 
 1 NowBrnM- 
 riki^whiobHe 
 
 m^ te be ,i»- 
 
 tlei*? Dttfins 
 iilBigpli Uwea 
 
 el eod.otk«r 
 oWklfrejipM. 
 oyeronMnl.on 
 
 urtb«priMnt 
 ottudly foioed 
 le tery fcee 
 i«r« of nearly 
 •olutlMM «e 
 the Gorern- 
 the p»yiwnt 
 Ing the Boed, 
 oomib Uw. and 
 ooiut by tncni. 
 of two otUi— 
 , or repudiate 
 Lt retpe^tiithe 
 to be handed 
 I refer to the 
 Btive, it really 
 wo millions of 
 lands of which 
 
 307 
 
 British 
 
 [Apbil 4. 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 908 
 
 w^ know nothing, of which there ha* been 
 1^ auive/ or f xploratloo. We are certain' 
 If, preoeaUing io the dMk. Uo far at we 
 'jffiW onur • ■laidl pprMoD tff the loads in 
 
 u>)uinbia ace At for par|KMee of 
 lutiofL Already tbm. fptata oi \ea4 
 hMttoOrred, btiit th*ooiiAt«yai 'ekr- 
 la^li^otaettUa. Che truth Utbat 
 oaaa^t Uftm satUeoMBU, beemue 
 e,U so smtUa proportioQ of the lands 
 iia»J»' «4Q9f £vea adoiittuif thM 
 OM-'' ,ieniior oultiveUon aay peitoa 
 w .oiows anything about tlie land is 
 .en that tbey are. npt *cces*ibU. We 
 ooM literally h«nd orer this sum of tlOO,- 
 O0(l for a wortWieas purohaae. 1 have beeb 
 IfWg in |he Iiegislature, and have pakt 
 apme attention to the management of 
 Crown iianda in Canada. Notwithstanding 
 the tine quality of the lands, did they ever 
 yield a revenue. The oost of management 
 abaorbed all the receipta from this source, 
 lam quite wiUhig to ndmit thai the timber 
 ^^erly under better management, has af- 
 fotio^d some revenue, but the receipts 
 from land were literally frittered away in 
 e^pf uses. If you could not derive a fe< 
 veoue from the fertile lands of Ontario, 
 how canyon expect to do so from this 
 mifieraUe region in the West. (Hear.) 
 EW' gentlemen may cry <'hear, hear)" 
 buki think after experience what I have 
 aal^wiU be found to be the fact. Lately 
 we beve oflbred a large quantity of leads 
 bqiMi jin Onterio and Quebec as free mnts 
 — |i^^ muda superior to ihose of toe in< 
 a«p|M8ibiere|dons in question, and yet y«u 
 OKffpolk Mt them sold or settled as nee 
 np^Ue. Thf, Huron distriots and the Owen 
 SqwdseUlemfeateare flourishing because 
 tha lands wen fertile aa4 there was a 
 Iwge extent of coiintry to ssleot from. 
 I who .talk«botttaetilingthis western 
 
 ' eie har^l^ afake to wnat they are 
 Bof^e. y^acs ego there was a great 
 
 :the,oon^tey topioifi^ot for gold 
 
 [i9(fib } but aU that excitement has 
 iMm^n '^ mining i is now pursued 
 ^^•[smeilesteak It ia tnie therf is 
 a<goasi(jUra|t>leareaofgood land in Uani^ 
 to)i»!r-ead apooniing.to'FeofiMsor Hind, 
 sane 46 or SO^OUOTXIO of acres in the 
 fl y fc a Vih a i ian country. iJrjsady, however, 
 a kft9 .portion Pr the laaOM: about Fort 
 (hiUrf: iMve been given ew*r> Under all 
 thip^ciroiwniUenMft 1 cannet believd that 
 th«| raitwejF cen be, eyen whenbuilt, of any 
 grtiivk. advantage to the Dominion. A» 
 respitcts the qu«|Stion of representation I 
 caiinot see the fairness in ginng some 10,- 
 000 wliitca, represented as being of waste- 
 ■iM and extravagiant habits, three members 
 in the Senate . wlulst Ontario, with two 
 millions, representing a sturdy yeomanry, 
 an, industrious ^opulttion. notapeopleof 
 wasteful and extravagant habit^ has only 
 
 15 
 
 24 mtmbera in the same branch. The 
 whole plan is subversive of that prmoiple 
 of representation by population which 
 was one of the great inducements 
 to OnUrio to come into the Confederation. 
 Tlie finenoisf terms are equallv ui^ust and 
 disp«HPortk>nate to the population, and I 
 cannot oerteinlv record my vote in favor of 
 a meaanre which ngr judgment cannot 
 aoprove of. Mt may l>e said that I oppose 
 tBM measure because I opposed Confedera- 
 tion. I op p osed that scheme iaevery stage, 
 but when it became the constitution of the 
 country, 1 accepted it and was willing to 
 give it Day support. I still believe that the 
 measure has gwenadiapmporttonate share 
 to the Maritune Provinces, as comport 
 with Ontaiio, but still I would work it out 
 honestly and in good faith. But when I 
 am asked to go still further and embark in 
 rash, mad projects, I munt pause. Under 
 these oirc^rustances, I have no other alter- 
 native than to state that I shall give my 
 vote in favor of the Amendment tor delay. 
 Hon. Mr. SAdirH— As the junior mem- 
 ber of this Hon. House and without any 
 Parliamentary experionoe, I ask the induf- 
 cense of hon. members forafew moments, 
 atnce these resolutions came up, I have 
 thought over them very seriously— I have 
 aakea myself what eflect they could have 
 upon nqnelf, upon my neighbour and upon 
 ! every individual in the land. In (frder to 
 get at this, I put down the numbw of 
 acres of land and the money with which 
 we propose to build this great read, which 
 will be, say 2,500 miles long ; $30,000 a 
 mile would build it and make the total 
 ooet 975,000,000. I said then, where are 
 these seventy-Ave millions to oome from ; 
 but I see that the Oovemment have pro- 
 mised to give HOOO^OOO acies of land to 
 assist the oomitruetion of the road, and I 
 suppose that it will be worth from 70 to 80 
 cents an acre, but aayinig 75 cents, the 
 value of 'the total grant may be put down 
 at 948.000,000 or 950,000,000 for a little 
 over 95 cents^ Then the Oovemment pro- 
 pose. to.,give 910,000 per mile or 925.(XX>,- 
 090 as a subeic^iwhich added to the valueiOf 
 the, land will meet the estimated cost of 
 the whole work. I looked at this question 
 in a.inenner peculiar to myself, I asked 
 what burthen will this bring upon rae 7 I 
 take the total number of inlubitants in 
 our Dominion and calculated so much per 
 head, and 1 find that probably two years 
 from this time, when the surveys will be 
 completed, the population will be 5,000,- 
 00^ IcaloulateSOctsperhead per annum 
 for ten years would build the roaa or give the 
 910,000 per mil<Qr 925,000,000 altogether. 
 It has be«i said by those who are opposed 
 to this scheme that $25,000,000 will not be 
 sufficient for the Oovemment to give. Now, 
 I consider that 925,000 per mile would be 
 
mmmm» 
 
 iTPPPiPP!!f«pww«ww 
 
 m 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 2ia 
 
 a pretty good amount to build a railway 
 wmch will run through a portion of prairie 
 land. SuppoM we borrow the mobey, at 
 the ejtpiraUon of tea yean, it would only 
 coat 20 oenta per head, divided aroong our 
 population. Bui it is said that that aum 
 will not build the road. Then looking at 
 it in tlM .worst jKMaible light— snppoMng 
 thai tiie ^vemment hav^to give 160,000,- 
 ■ 0^ and haTe.;fifteen yearn to do it in : for 
 in my ofrfnion, we are not tied down to the 
 time of ten yearn, but simply promise to do 
 aHL;we oen and to act . in good fidth— we 
 irouldnot have any very he*vy burthen to 
 bearr We would then be oaUed upon to 
 the enormous sum of 91 por yoar per 
 ' fbr ten years to. clear off the debtand 
 build the road. Or suppose,fir(wifimeto 
 time we borrow the money, wen, we will 
 have to pay fourpercentontbe amount, in- 
 stead of f 1 a year. In a prosperous country, 
 like ours, we can easily raise all the money 
 neoesssjy for the constraotion ot this great 
 ^Tork ; and, therefore, I do not entertain 
 the feelings of apprehensions that some 
 hon. gentlemen have. Supposing th'op(^- 
 ls,tion increases during the next 10 or 15 
 years 50 per cent — in my opinion, it will 
 increase during the present decade as it 
 has not increased during the past twenty 
 years — the whole burthen imposed upon 
 our people would not exceed 30 cents per 
 head, with these Tiews and taking the 
 matter seriously into consideration, I consi- 
 der it is n^ duty, irrespeotire of political 
 consideratiens, to give this measure my 
 support (bear, hear>. I believe liiis 
 is one of the most important 
 votes that 1 shall be called upon to give 
 for a long time to come, since tJie ques- 
 tion before us is inseparably conneoied 
 with the union of the Provinces. Let 
 hon. gentlemen for one moment consider 
 the extent of the colony now applying 
 for admission — a country as large as Eng- 
 land and two or three tunes as hu-ge and 
 fertiieas Ireland— and ihey will see its 
 value to the Dominicm. This measure 
 proposes to open up a great Western na- 
 tion—to construct a highway between the 
 Atlantic and the Pacifio— to give theBuro- 
 pean emigrant the means of making a 
 cpmfbrtable home for himself and family 
 in a rich country — to develop resonrom 
 which are now inactive and unproductive. 
 With these results accruing f^m the mea 
 sure, I cannot believe that we need be 
 alarmed as to the future. On the contrary, 
 I believe that we belong to a prosperous 
 and progressive nation which will never 
 feel this ezpendil j^e. If this measure 
 failed to be can'ied out, yeart> might 
 elapse before we would be in so favoutable 
 a position as now to make a con^mence- 
 ment. Imagine a chain being run across, 
 the continent. Let the Nova (Votianj 
 
 take the links of that chain and join to- 
 gether all the sections. I believe that it 
 is necessZry for the consolidation of Britiab 
 America that ffe should pass the resoln- 
 tions, for without them the Oovemment 
 will have no power to'order a. survey or ex- 
 plore the country., 1 trust to-mght whan 
 the vote is' taken that we Will shew ttttt 
 we inOy appreciate the importance of tib(» 
 qnestiotat. we pledge ourselvM to the 
 particular node of eonstruetioii, as stated 
 by the Oovemment) but if we nod we calk* 
 not do it within the iMXt ten years, in Oe 
 way proposed, then they most come baek 
 to the douse, and atk for additional legis- 
 lation on the sntgeot; and the answer 
 w jul4 be : '<You have aoted fsithfully and 
 we will renew the bargain." Therefore, I 
 ask the hon. members of this House, 
 especially our fritends from Nova Scotia, to 
 take the matter into their most serious 
 consideration and assist in the work of 
 strengthening theUnion and developing the 
 resources of the whole Dominim. At the 
 present moment, w|||Hl'we are mMftavour- 
 mg to induce a flow^of IbmugratiaK into 
 this country, this measure of progress will 
 have great ei^ect— it will attract capital, 
 enterprize and population into the un- 
 developed and rich territories of the 
 Weet. The moment the surveys are ended 
 people will commence to come into the 
 country and take a share in the prosperity 
 of the Dominion. It is for the good of 
 mankind that these' rich fertile lands 
 should be opened up to the poor people 
 of the over-crowdea communities of the 
 old world — who live in cellars, garrets and 
 hovels,hardly able to find mere subsistence. 
 Let us unite heartily to make this Union 
 a success, and build up a great and prosper- 
 ous nation in, our land (cheers). 
 
 Hon. Vx. kOLMES said that the senti- 
 ments he hid just heard commended 
 themselves to his good judgment. He too 
 believed that unless British Columbia was 
 admitted into the Omibderation, that 
 great scheme jeould never be considered 
 in a fUr way towards completion. He was 
 among those who believed Union insepar- 
 abW connected witii our prosperity, uid 
 wished to see it exIOtnded to the shores of 
 thePaci6c. He was an advocate of all 
 measures of progress— of public works 
 whieh Would stimulate the development of 
 eur resources. He had now been many 
 years in the country and had watohed its 
 griidu^J^s^tfress towards its present con- 
 '''*''*^'«"^^erity. He had often heard 
 dictions of ruin and bank- 
 not now to be terrified by 
 th% bugbear Abich the Opposition was 
 raiJiiDg in mAm to, influence membev 
 agslnst tlu^esolutions. }Ie believed, the 
 lase^ant of land together with the sub- 
 sic^ ^iven by the Government would be 
 \ 
 
 diti 
 
 V, 
 
21(^ 
 
 id join to- 
 tre that It 
 lofBritidt 
 tie raw>ln- 
 >T«mmeiit 
 irreyorez- 
 ight whan 
 ■fasw tint 
 ince of til* 
 
 M to tlM 
 
 , M •tfttod 
 Udwe ottt* 
 •n, intiM 
 Dome baek 
 ional le^- 
 he aniwer 
 thfalljr Mid 
 llierefore, I 
 his HouM, 
 ■ Scotit, to 
 ost serious 
 the work of 
 relopingthe 
 m. At the 
 ilMMTOur- 
 iratioi into 
 regress will 
 act capital, 
 ito the un- 
 «s ot the 
 ft are ended 
 le into the 
 e prosperity 
 the good of 
 trtile lands 
 x>or people 
 itles oftbe 
 garrets and 
 idbsistence. 
 tiiis Union 
 mdprosper- 
 
 . the aenti- 
 x>iiunendiad 
 nt. Hetoo 
 lambia was 
 ation, that 
 conBidered 
 m. Ee was 
 lion insepar- 
 peritj, uid 
 leshoi'es of 
 Mate of all 
 blio works 
 elopmentof 
 been many 
 watehed its 
 [ireaent oon- 
 often heard 
 n and bank- 
 terrified by 
 tosition was 
 e mambe« 
 elieved^the 
 Ih the lub- 
 TTOuld be 
 
 511 
 
 British 
 
 t April 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 212 
 
 quite sufficient to build tlie whole road. 
 Lie was surprised farr^ear tl^e objections 
 ur»d by some gejf tlemen, but it was quite- 
 sufficient for the (lovern^fiDt^to bring for- 
 ward a measure to evoke thb opposition ot 
 somehon. members. The House should 
 not merely consider the money question, 
 but how far the unity snd progress of t&e 
 Dominion were iden tfied with the adop- 
 tion of the scheme. 
 
 Hon. Mr. WaRK— Before I give my vote 
 on this subject, I wish to explain my rea- 
 sons. I am not One who opposed the Con- 
 federation of the Provinces, I was always 
 nn advocate of the Union, because I be- 
 lieved it was going to benefit us. I believe 
 that it is desirable that we . should intro- 
 duce into the Union, not only the North 
 West Territory but Brituh Columbia, but 
 now that the question is before us, I can- 
 not agree to all the terms under which that 
 colony is to come in. I am not going, I.jW- 
 'Over. to oppose the arrangement tlMt has 
 been madu resppc^ing the representation. I 
 believe that it is no more liberal tlian the 
 people are entitled to in view of theirpecu- 
 liar situation. So far as the financial arrange- 
 ments are concerned, I am of opinion tl^t 
 when we take a new Province into Confed- 
 eration, we must deal liberally with 
 them. . I expected that as New Brunswick 
 was the least pophlous of the Provinces of 
 the Dominion, she would have been more 
 liberally dealt-with ; but, I regret to say, 
 that my anticipations to some extent have 
 been disappointed ; but still, I am willing 
 not to act towards the other colonies in the 
 same way. but to give them every consid- 
 eration to which they are fairly entitled. I 
 do not think that the people of British Col- 
 umbia had a right to expect, that this 
 country would launch into such an under- 
 taking as a Pacific Bail way on their own ac- 
 count. Althoush we have been contrasted 
 with the United States, we are not situated 
 aa they are. They have gone on adding 
 Htate after SUte. Ohio was settled after 
 New York, then Indiana, LUnois, and so 
 on, imtil the tide of population crossed the 
 Missouri. We have between the habitable 
 parts of Ganada.and Bed Bive; i region of 
 1000 miles of wilderness, '^v talk of giv- 
 ing knd along this route, . tf you take 
 up the Cauadian Almanac, and look 
 at tte map you will see that 
 the Ui^tario Oovemment have marked 
 off blocks of lard for frea grants, and these 
 are likely first t& duratit settlers, for they 
 will be nearer the railwdva, cities and towns 
 of Qinada^ being situatecl between the 45tb 
 and 46th degrees of north latitude. But 
 what IS the value of the land we now pro-, 
 pose to offer for the construction of the 
 railway, which lies two or three (degrees 
 further north.- No one can expect that 
 cereals or even vegetables will ripen on . 
 
 niubh of it. I ailmit that when we cross 
 the Bed Biver there is much valuable 
 land, which anybody would b^ ready to 
 take, together with the moderate subsidy 
 spoken of by the Postmaster General ; 
 but supposing you had a railway built 
 from Amprior to Red River, what would 
 you do with it. It could not pay its run- 
 ning expenses. Take the Grand Trunk 
 Railway — it runs past Toronto, Kingston, 
 Montreal and Quebec, and other large 
 towns, and enjoys not only an im- 
 mense way traffic: through the rich 
 Province of Ontario but a large through 
 traffic from the Western States ; but vrluit 
 after all does it pay to its stockholders 7 
 What then could be expected from a road 
 1.000 miles long passing through a region 
 tnat will turnish little or no way traffic, and 
 with^ through traffic of the m-st limited 
 nature. I do not think we should delude 
 the people of British Columbia with 
 promises which cannot be realized. I do 
 not agree with these gentlemen,' however, 
 who say that these resolutions do not bind 
 us — they undertake to pledge the Do- 
 minion to the commencement of the rail- 
 way within two years. I believe that in 
 British Columbia nineteen-tweatieths of 
 the people think that we intend to build 
 the road within the time promised, but 
 does anyone here entertun the opinion 
 that it can be done— that any company 
 will be found to undertake the work. It 
 is folly for us to promise to construct such 
 an enormous 'work for the sake of benefit- 
 ting some 1,600 people. The people of 
 the United States fi\d not com- 
 mence their Pacific Railway im- 
 til tber had wealthy an'', 
 
 populous communities on the Pa^dfic coast 
 and noble States, teeming ;vith activity, 
 from the Ohio to the country beyond the 
 Miasisjippi and the Missouri. More than 
 that, there were upwards of 40,000,000 of 
 people to B>:iiBt the greats work, instead of 
 the 4,000,000 who live within the (Jonfeder 
 ation. The Americans would never have 
 projected such a work fc the benefit of 
 only 16,000 souls. They had on the Pacific 
 coast the populous State of California, 
 abounding in minpral and agricultural re- 
 sources, w|iose inhabitants were able aqd 
 willing; to extend their existing railway, 
 and to ai'<«et the people of the East hidf 
 way, 'as well as to give ample employment 
 to the road when constructe'l, while wo 
 are asked to build a road nearly doublA 
 the length of theirs, with no prospect cf 
 assistance to build it or Of traffic to sup- 
 port it when built. I do not believe that 
 our American neighbours bare any idea of 
 going to war with us. I bej^eve it ii: their 
 interest as much as ours to sustain friendly 
 relations, and to reciprocate in many, ways 
 with each other. We reciprocate now so 
 
 V 
 
4218 
 
 Bfitiih 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 214 
 
 far as our railways are concerned — a great 
 quantity of Western produce comes by the 
 Uiies which converge, on Sarni»— and we 
 should follow thehr exatniple m thia respect. 
 Aa soon as there aie enough people in 
 Manitoba we ahould continue a roaa from 
 Pembina to Fort Oarrjr, and as soon as oir- 
 cukhatanoes woidd joanfy the nndertaldaj|, 
 •zte&d padnaUy towards the Padfte^ ntu- 
 iiing the Ajuerioan roads for itamigrstioo. 
 loatead of givhig the people of British 
 Colombia liie f 100.000, I would capitiliie 
 it, and that would probably giro them 
 $2^000,000 to spend in Improfing their oom- 
 mrndoatiena. I would grre the ueoeasary 
 amodnt fin* the support of the Postal ar- 
 iwngemeuts and thO LegMatore. I would 
 afford them flicilities for ioteroourse with 
 San Franoifico. I would give the people of 
 Hed Btver a railway from Red Biver to 
 Pembma, where oonneotioii with the 
 American system of railways will be made. 
 I wish to deal fairly with these people, but 
 not to promise more than we can or under- 
 «take to do. Under hU the dreumstanoes 
 I cannot believe that the oonstruotion of 
 the road is possible, and must vote against 
 the terms embodied in the resolutions. 
 Hon. Mr. FEBRIBH- When my hon. 
 ' friend behmd me, (Mr. Seymour) address- 
 ed the' House on this subject he looked at 
 the dark side, and I began to believe that 
 I had been living for the last tlvee or four 
 years under an entire delusion as to our 
 condition. I did believe that this Domin- 
 ion was in a prosperous state and that all 
 of us had every reason to be satisfied with 
 the mode ia whiehpublie affairs were being 
 administered. Now I un tpid tiitit I have 
 beenfoatOiriajg a veritable delusion— thsit 
 all this beaatod preM>eri^ of ours is purely 
 riotitioa#. BCft ;d«iM(0 tlw' remarks Of 
 thehMi.'geBtlMnitt,I ate quite omtfwtt 
 with (ho oondinbn bfpftblld afflira attd 
 thoir maamenneilt sfaMii tkeCOhtMeratioii 
 of British AnkeriOa^; I ka««JiiiB<lttnbt n^t- 
 ever that thi*^ oowitrf will oo on proepep- 
 ingaadihptw« wHl Mjr aioOaesaf^y the 
 fouaditioiis of the newitationaUty. When 
 J oonmafiR the state <^ tliiBgk in .1821, 
 whM I ftrtt arrived here witu what I now 
 seeskrou&d'Bte^-citiesaiid- tMm* faicrea a 
 ing with great rapiditv, wMlth aeoomida^ 
 ting evemfhore, puUiie wotitt etiaalathig 
 tbe.deveiopment of oor Mtootees, tM 
 whole oountry teemiaf witti activity and 
 enterpriio^l att ooite satteled and oon- 
 gratulate myarif tttat* I' lite iq Canada. 
 When I ooaaidet t!. « prMiln» sehenM H 
 does not strikoi me aa » agj^eaie to hiKn 
 straek others, that wo are iMAg tor' brhw 
 T\an and bonlrraptqr od tu» «cfmMfi I 
 reiaembor perftoliy welt, sOUe^ 30 yOlue 
 ago,whetf we werepayiag som* 2t peroHrt 
 on our importations ; mm when the pubHe 
 exigenclei required that the duty 
 
 should be raised to 5 per cent, 
 we were told that the country was 
 to be ruined. Subsequently the duty waa 
 raised to 7i and the same exoitemont 
 arose, and soit has gone on until we have 
 reached our present tarifl^ and are mOro 
 prosporons than when we only |)aid 2j| pa- 
 oent. W« are living in an afe of progiross 
 and are carried onward by 
 the spuit of the dqr-— that 
 restless tsph^t of enterprise wfaioh 
 •vor looks ahead. Last vear the Govoni- 
 ment of Qnebeo offered large appropria- 
 tions tondlway oompaoies,.aAd these have 
 been accepted bv twee. These oompaaies 
 pr^KXM to build their Uaea by moans of 
 these grants Of land and some assistaooe 
 ftvm (£e munidpalittea ; and I have every 
 belief that they will succeed. In the case 
 of the present road. I am quite unguine 
 that there wQl be no difficulty in inducing 
 capitate to undertake it. With the 
 Iw^ grants ofiered,20 miles on each side, 
 lanrxnuch m'lStaken if before the ne?ct 
 session of Paniament we shall not flee a 
 number of tenders submitted for' the con-, 
 struction of that entire road (bear, hear), 
 especially as there 'is to be a subsidy of 
 $10,000 a mile fi-om the Government be 
 sides. The Northern Pacific road is now 
 being constructed without any subsidy 
 at all, and will be entirely built by means 
 •of grants of public land. Immigration 
 must follow the building of such loads— 
 the workmen employed must naturally 
 settler along the route and the whole' 
 country become peopled in this way. I' 
 have very^ifctle faith m thp predictions ot . 
 my hon. mend (Mr. aeyniour), for I remem- 
 ber that when Confederation was undor 
 discussion he drew a very gloomy 
 pietui^ of the Maritime Pro- 
 viheee— they looked to him as dismal aa 
 Britiah C(dnmbia does to^dajr, Ueref«n%ti 
 then to Nova b'cotia and espodaUy to ita 
 rov«n»o, but he waa interrupted by the 
 Poetauater-GeiMral, ^ho showed that tiie 
 revenue had aetnaUt doubled in one year. 
 My hoto. frientd aMnred the landa in qnea- 
 tionto be woriMOM, but he is not oorro- 
 bated by those Wlia have visited the coun- 
 try, and are dnmipetopt to escpress on opfai- 
 ion on the sul^ei In fny case, it aboOnds 
 with tnhieralB, aaif fiah are oangfat in great 
 abondanoe in the watera arouiad it. As 
 respeota the qoeationo fi o pi oae a ta ti oh , iM 
 terau seeux' moat cqoitablo. Whoa ibt> 
 twoOaaadaa wer« cbdead wo had iar' 
 Lomr Pmviaov some 50,000 BiOM 
 thitt la the Weatom MeUoii, and' 
 ber <yf l O tH WOt M* '" ^*^ Otj^MMd: U 
 theeourMoftlara, ho#evor, tUe< Oii4f»^t» 
 'mOmb«m forgot the cirotttaatOnofla \n.*i*- 
 whkh the repoMBtatioa was tstneam^, 
 and became clamorous fOr aa additioaal 
 number for a syitrra ba>e<l on pnpulafion. 
 
 
 iMBI 
 
 ,i^j^^ 
 
214 
 
 per cent. 
 
 uotry WW 
 
 « duty wtft 
 
 Bxcitemtat 
 
 til w« hftte 
 
 lure more 
 
 l«id 2i pir 
 
 ofprogrMs 
 
 rua by 
 
 day— thftt 
 
 w wlndh 
 
 theGoTOTB- 
 
 approjHrb- 
 
 tbeseh&Te 
 
 tcompuiies 
 
 J mwouof 
 
 MsistMlM 
 
 haveeTMry 
 In th« ewe 
 te sanguine 
 
 in inducing 
 
 With the 
 n each aide, 
 e the next 
 1 not ftee a 
 for" the con-, 
 hear, hear), 
 
 subsidy of 
 emment be 
 road is now 
 any subsidy 
 lit by means 
 Inunigration 
 luoh roads— 
 [st naturally 
 
 the whole' 
 this way. I' 
 redictions ot . 
 forlremem- 
 
 ww under 
 ■ery gldomy 
 itime Pro- 
 ,% dismal w 
 
 Ueref«n%d 
 idaUy to Ha 
 pted by ihe 
 ired that the 
 in one year, 
 andainquea- 
 • not oorro- 
 iedthe ooun- 
 )reas i«n opln- 
 «, it abounds 
 aght in great 
 lofld it. A« 
 lentetiOIr, tbft 
 Wbea Hiktt 
 ) hid UrtUtr 
 nmv pevpn 
 and'tlw iUbo- 
 
 MBMa vuli* 
 Ma t.-tnaigc<i, 
 A additiObai 
 mp'^pulation. 
 
 «15 
 
 Bfitish 
 
 [April 4, 1871.1 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 216 
 
 % 
 
 Now, it the colony of British Columbia 
 should increase very rapidly they would 
 also be calling out for representation ac- 
 cording to population. It is better to 
 arrange the representation on some 6x»d 
 princmle w mthe present case abd pre- 
 vent disstttiimotion in the itunds of the 
 peoDle. I p)>«dio'ted additional jprospteity 
 w lUE^ljr to aocrue IVoib the Conftderatido. 
 and the constrtf^tion of the rnt6r«ol6hm 
 BailWay/and laj prediotiobs haV6 b^n 
 mote tbah r«a&(la though that gt«at 
 witfkit not t^t ocdnpleted.* I have no 
 doub^ tjbat otir ekp«otiations in the prM^t 
 oaae vfin Alao bit fully rtelized, ahd thAt we 
 are Abdfit entoriiig on an eri» of unpAMl*!- 
 ed aoUvi'jr i wi -titerprize throughout the 
 DottJnioh^j- .car). 
 
 H.-.fl. Jt- .;, 'OR— I hare listen^ 
 witha^ -.l-^'-i. of attention to the dls- 
 Gussidn Oh ihxn important question and 
 must c6hfi6as that I agree with a g)-eat 
 deal that has been said on the other side. 
 I am myself in fdVour of a union of British 
 Columbia with Canada— I am also in ik- 
 vour of some scheme which will 
 - bring about an Interoceanic Kailwny. I 
 believ» that the time is not far distant 
 wheo ';'Jch a work will be accomplished. 
 My objection to the measure before the 
 House, however, is that it does not clearly 
 and properly define the mode of construct- 
 ing this important work. It the question 
 was, as it nas been stated by the Hon. 
 Postmaster General, or by the hon. meto- 
 ber from Saugeen, who spoke yesterday, 
 (Hon. Mr. Macpherion,) T TiriiM not look 
 upon the undertakintr a ' inr untu,>ai)tKbl6, 
 The H(Wi. PuBtmwte) Oet*i 
 that pwb. under th- <3h 
 nflft \ttiivm « <»itotn. t r :> f i' ' my ^ 
 ten y«fiplit ttui «Bd tbe go v o' Cineni ini 
 it dKMldbe d6iM at m sua viot»,',A 
 to the ])bmltttnja. « the W. *. .un of f^ 
 Oorenittttftt ^rw to oHlir to priTUf e om 
 pahies gMtlit ot kbda in alternate sett- 
 tioiu of J20'udlM 00 eltb^'i' side o( the pro- 
 P<Mm line of road Hth. a ouh subndy 
 of fWnb aerea t^ |iO|^000 per mile,. and 
 tbe limit of ten yMrft l*w named w 
 indfeating that every rewonable effort 
 would be made to ooitiplete the work 
 within that time, ^ut the Gorerament 
 were not bbuhd ir .'>ttimej' But tbe 
 hon. member tor .«•■ «o;i, (Hon. Mr. lt»a- 
 phc.ion,) give qui*, s. ;.hef iAterj^reta- 
 tion to the resolut.^.. F» regUded 
 railway oonneotion between Peittbiiuiand 
 fifitith Columbia al eoaneotlag the Fa- 
 -iflc ivith the Railway syttom df Cao4- 
 oA throiigh the' AiAeriocn Uneb aii 
 .:;h dng all th« requinsueilts of 
 th'> resolutions before the Senate, 
 I do not underttattd the Tesolutibaa to 
 be open to either of these interpretations. 
 I understand them to bind the Dominion 
 
 * detifa^ 
 
 ^OtJOQ^ /Mi 
 
 to accomplish this immense undert iking 
 at whatever cost within the short period of 
 ten years. It is upon this ground mainly 
 that I oppose them. It is idle for mem- 
 ben to declare that tb^ey put such and such 
 interpretations on these resolutions — it is 
 idle to.^ bring up additional resolutions to 
 aay that the mewure means something 
 else than what ia ekpressed. It is undig- 
 nified to porsue such a course — it is unbe- 
 ooming the Senate of the Dominion of 
 Caoadii. IF we mein anything different 
 from wU^it is ezpre«se(), we should take 
 tbe'proper and Qi;ily .course of statmg so 
 «nd refute to become a party to a delu- 
 sion. A lUu^ge portion of the country 
 tbrouigh which the railway is expected to 
 to run bw never even been explored. 
 Tb^ only survey that bos been made 
 trough that portion lying in Ontario with 
 a view of finding a Railway route to the N 
 West was that made a few years ago by 
 Mr. Herriok along the North shore of I^ke 
 Superior — It was run at an average distanco 
 of '2Xi mUes froin the shore. \V e find that 
 he considers a railway on that line, quite 
 impracticable. Speculators have led many 
 to believe that there is a practicable route 
 which may be found from 20 Co 5U miles 
 farther north, but until we have something 
 distinct before us in the shape of a thorough 
 and reliable exploration survey, we should 
 not bind ourselves in the manner propos- 
 ed by the resolutions'. I do hope that a 
 practicable route will be found, and that 
 no tiifio will be lost in making the neces- 
 sary surveys ; but in the meantime .. 1 . 
 think it i» Mupt^per for Parliament to de"- 
 c|are diet we wul undertake a work of 
 tbia nia^itttde before we know whether 
 it«*reabl<» to carry it out. Thet« ia no 
 retUoo, why yd muoh should have been 
 pjte^Md'ott the part of the Dominion. 
 &iti«& Oohilbbia did not wk it— they 
 Wtould haV^ b«an aatiafled, w they aUted 
 in the ooibitttmic&tiona oni the subject, with 
 We-exDieiidtture of one million of dollars 
 per Mintun, , towards the building of a 
 ooaOb road and railvray. The manner in 
 which thia question ia put before Parila- 
 ment, is very dil^erent . ftom the course 
 pursjied in British (Columbia. There it 
 WW deteftnhied before agreeing to any 
 plan of Union with Canada, the question 
 ahould be first put to the people of the 
 (Tolonv, The Qovemor aaya : 
 
 « While the views of Her M^yeaty's Gov- 
 enunent heve beea dearly and fbrcibly 
 ezpreaaed upon tnia qnestiotl, I mn sure 
 there i» no dekire to urge the Union, 
 except in aocordaiice witb its general ac 
 oeptance by Britiah luttj^ta intneColony. 
 I do not, therefbre, propOM that any terms 
 agr^ upon by tbeGtoieraimentofC^anada 
 shoula be firudly ae<ie|>ted, until ratified 
 by the general vertlict of the (Community, 
 
WPWIillPPIWWHWfpRiP! 
 
 217 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 21% 
 
 so far as tb«t can be aioertained through 
 •Dothe'r Counoil, of. which the unofficial 
 memben} shall have been rt-eleoted." 
 
 Although ihe population iii that Colony 
 ia venr small, the quettipn i», neTerthelesa, 
 sobautted to them, whereu four milliomi 
 of people in Oonada are not ooasulted at 
 all, except- through tixe members of the 
 (iovemment. FarUamelit is^t allowed 
 to amend and improve the scheme, bat 
 must either accept it or ny«ot it as • 
 whole. The Qorernipent ought to have 
 brought \h» question befbre Parliament in 
 such a way that i( would have ah 6p|>or- 
 tunity of impft>viDg'the plan of linion, 
 and making it more acceptable to the 
 people of the Bomimon. As respects 
 other features of the scheme, I do notffnd 
 so'iOttcU fault. The people of the Colony 
 are allowed a greater representation than 
 other parts of OanadiL They are a young 
 community and entitled to some consider- 
 ation in this respect. Not only would I 
 fvnt them a sutiicient repreaentatiion, but 
 would give them All the necessary reven- 
 .ue for their local requirements; but to 
 bind the Dominion to construct the Rful; 
 way within 10 years at whatever cost, i* pro- 
 mising .too much. If the resoluUons 
 plainly stated, that Canada would com- 
 mence to construct this raijway; aa soon 
 .as the state df the finances permitted, 
 then I would cheerfully vote for -them ; 
 but to "foe so unequivocally committed to 
 ther oonBtmcti<m of the road ^ within so 
 short a period of time, is something to 
 which I caimot agree. We must remem- 
 ber that so far as we know anything aboiit 
 the countries through which this road Will 
 pass, a great deal of it is exceedingly 
 rocky and barren, except that portion of 
 it which lies in Manitoba and along the 
 Saskatchewan. In Btitish Colombia the 
 Cascades on the Pacific coast, the Gold, the 
 Selkirk, and the Bockjr Mountains, and in 
 addition to these particular ranges, there 
 are considerable portions of very ragged 
 country, through which the road will pass. 
 Down the idaskatchewan to Fort Gany, 
 then is a rich agricultural country, that 
 ought to be opeiipd up, and through which 
 a railway can easily be constructed, A 
 moderate grant of l|md would build a rail- 
 way along this fertile belt, and it ought to 
 be constructed. Fropi F0rt Garry to Lake 
 Superior it is possible to avail ourselves of 
 water navigation, #nd a short railway is 
 only necessary. A modierete escnenditure 
 of seven or ei^t millions of aollars ac- 
 cording toKr. Pawson'a report, woi})d ac- 
 ccmplisb 9i^.tbat was requieite. The very 
 fact that we have so much ivater commu- 
 nication by the lakes, will enable us to lay 
 freight down much cheaper at Fort Garry 
 than it can be done by way 'of St. Paul. 
 In the sessional papers of 1869, Volume 2, 
 
 Mr. Dawson estimates the cost of railway 
 and water communication between the 
 head of lAke (iupenor and Fort Garry, 
 with looks and camris where necessary, at a 
 total sum of 95,800;000. Basing the estimate 
 aooording to ' MoAlpine'a scale, which is 
 generally adopted, Mr. Dewson shows that 
 the cost oJFoanving a ton 'of freight from 
 Port Gany to Toronto would be :imh such 
 worfcs completed only 5.35, while by raU- 
 wayftom bt Paul by way, of Chicago and 
 Detroit to Toronto the fMght is $19.60 per 
 ton— 'thus showihg thai the prodnota of the 
 North West Wr be brought to the sea- 
 
 >iH at less ' than 'one-third of the cost 
 u :t)aired to carry fMght flrom St. 
 
 P:i.. r, then, this advantage can be se- 
 cure > J opening up commnnieation 
 through our own -territory at a oost of 16,- 
 000,000, why should we incur a liability of 
 $100,000,000? The GoVernmeiii ddiould 
 not have agreted to such term* of union 
 with British Coluipbia. No hon. member 
 of the Innate con desire more than I do the 
 union of British Columbia with this Con- 
 federation ; no one desires more than I do 
 to see Canada a. great and prosperous 
 country I will state further that I hare 
 .great confidence jn the future of the Do-' 
 miiUon, but it h because I desire the suc- 
 cessful consolidation- of the Dominion that 
 I oppose a'scheme so extravagant as the 
 one at present before the Senate ond will 
 support the amendqient of the hon. mem 
 ber opposite. 
 
 Hon. Mr. MITCHEMi.— I pro6ume tevr 
 of us have ever taken part in a disciistion 
 whioh involves interests of greater impor- 
 tance to the future of our country than 
 the present one, and it has been ft source 
 of great satisfaction to myself, aa I am 
 sore it must be to every gentleman pre- 
 sent, to find the amount of calm and 
 thoughtful attention which has been de- 
 voted^ the consideration of this question. 
 I feel at the outset in discussing the sub- 
 ject that 1 am carried back to the period 
 when we were called upon to consider the 
 question whether these British American 
 possessions should remain isolated from 
 one another or become united into one 
 grand nation. I felt then fa 1 feel now 
 that the oonpeption of that idea was one 
 worthy of consummation, and that every 
 effort of the public men ot this country 
 should bb used to carry it out successfully. 
 It has been sMd that the idea originated 
 in consequence of the. political c^cessities 
 of old Owada^-ihat the public faon of that 
 Provmce were uiiable to carry on Govern- 
 ment and forced to introduce the Mari- 
 time' Proviuoea as a means of ac^usting 
 matter*. But a large portion of the peo- 
 ple of Canada looked at the question in a 
 very different light; they considered it 
 necessary for the purpose of developing 
 
•^^^^H^i^ 
 
 . 218 
 
 ; of railway 
 tween the 
 ^ort Garry, 
 >euary,ata 
 beMtimate- 
 t, which is 
 abowi that 
 ■eight from 
 :inUi luoh 
 lile by rail- 
 ihioaeo and 
 1 119.60 per 
 lacta of the 
 to the sea- 
 oftheooat 
 ht from St. 
 oaabe se- 
 monioation 
 soatof t6,- 
 liability of 
 ehi tiiould 
 04 of union 
 a. member 
 an I. do the 
 h this Con- 
 e than I do 
 proBDerous 
 hat I have 
 I of the Do-- 
 ire the &vf>- 
 ninion that 
 ant as the 
 lie and will 
 hon, mem 
 
 i-ofiume tew 
 li diaoua&ion 
 Mter impor- 
 ountry than 
 »enaiource 
 f, at I am 
 iMoan pre- 
 
 oalm and 
 u been de- 
 lls question, 
 ins the sub- 
 the period 
 »n8ider the 
 h American 
 ilated from 
 Dd into one 
 a I feel now 
 lea was one 
 1 that every 
 his country 
 luccessfully. 
 i originated 
 t c^oeasities 
 ta«n of that 
 on Govem- 
 ;o the liari- 
 of actuating 
 }f the peo- 
 lestion in a 
 inaidered it 
 
 developing 
 
 219 
 
 British 
 
 ['April 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 2'JO 
 
 the resonrces of British America, and per- 
 petuating Briti*h power on this continent". 
 I nm glad when 1 look back 
 
 - upoft the recoKl of the past four yeara, to 
 aed around me aome of those from other 
 parta of the. Dominion who aided material- 
 Iv in bringing about the conaummation of 
 thta great aofaeme.- and whatever may be 
 aaid in the heat of debate or under the in- 
 fluetooe of party pr«tjudice all must con- 
 gratulate tbemaelves on thoughtful 
 and nlm.teflection upon the great anooeae 
 which haa hitherto attended our eObrta. 
 nteae neat resulta hare not been unmark- 
 ed by checks and diaaatem. At a very 
 ewly atage in the oonfederati<m movement 
 New Brvnawiok declared against it, in- 
 ifuenoed by the fears and predictions of 
 the opponents of the measure wlio declar- 
 ed that rum and decay, the loas of Uberty 
 
 .and th^ deprivation of constitutional 
 righU were certain to follow a union with 
 Canada. But so soon as the people had 
 
 time for reflection^ they, withm a short ^ curs it must be only when their own in 
 
 period, reversed their decision, adopted 
 the measure .and consented to unite their- 
 tortunea with the sister if^rovinces. 'arid 
 what has been the result? In place of ruin 
 and decay which was so freely predicted 
 we have at this moment a state of pros- 
 perity in New Brunswick unsurpassed by 
 that of any other counUy, and this too in 
 the face of the repeal of the Reciprocity 
 measure which our American neighbours 
 predicted would ruin us and force us into 
 annexation. Our agricultunJ uistricts are 
 flourishing while incur cities and villages, 
 the increase of the various branches of 
 manu&oturing industries is vei7 gratifying 
 Nova Scotia too is prosperous notmthstand- 
 ing the dangers which were predicted and 
 the agitation which has been created 
 wioMt Canada. Sinoe the union in 1867 
 the Flovinoea have gone on atep by step 
 conaolidating and developing their resour- 
 oea and laat year by the acquiaition of the 
 North. West we extended our posaeaaions 
 to the baae of the Rooky Mountaina. 
 When that important atep was about' to be 
 Uken and P arliament was asked to de- 
 cide upon It, we were told by gentlemen 
 opposite that we were bringing trouble and 
 toxation upon the oountry— &at we could 
 
 of Quebec and twice m lirge as the tine' 
 Province of Ont:irio, and which, if acoe >t- 
 ed by Parliament, as I feel assured it will 
 be, will extend Can'ada from her present 
 western limits, at the base of the Rocky 
 Mountains to the shores of the Pkcitic, 
 and yet w« find some of the .honorable 
 gentlemen opposite uttering preidictions in 
 relation to this measure, which bear a 
 strong resemblance to those to which I 
 have referred as having been made in 
 reference to confederation and the North 
 W^Mt acquiaition and which I trust and be- 
 lieve will prove as unfounded. British 
 America will Uius have become practically 
 united from 4he ' Atlantic to the Pacific. 
 It is true that the Island of Prince 
 Edward and < Newfoundland stiU stand 
 aloof, but their union with us is only a 
 question of time and however'desirable it 
 may be to bring them in it is much less an 
 object to us of financial interest than one . 
 of national pride, and when that eveiit.oo- 
 
 tereKts as well as their inclinations induce 
 them to seek fpr admission,, abid- until that 
 period arrives we should not desire their 
 union with Canada. 
 
 It has given me much aatisfiustion to 
 notice tiie cordiality which has prevailed 
 during this debate notwithstanding the 
 differences of opinion which exist on the 
 part of gentlemen opposite and on review 
 mg the arguments which have been pre- 
 sented against the adoption of the mea- 
 sure, I find that they are narrowed to a 
 few points. MThile some few object to the 
 financial, and others to the constitutional 
 arrangements, or the nroposed representa- 
 tion which it is proposed to give the Pacific 
 Province, the principal objection taken is 
 agaiuLt that part of the scheme which pro- 
 vides for the construction of a Pacific rail- 
 way within a period of ten years. It is 
 not disputed that it is desirable to admit 
 British Columbia into our union, and the 
 questions, which the Senate have' now to 
 consider,that principle being generally ad- 
 mitted, are first :— Are the terms which 
 are oontained in the resolutions et^uitaUe 
 and just as well to British Columbia as to 
 Canada, and, if they are, is Canada able to 
 biriT out the engagement which these 
 not govern it— that it was iji^eless to ub as I' resolutions will impose upon her without 
 
 a possession and 'prophetic utterances in 
 no meaaured terma wereunaparingly made, 
 and how have they been verified? The 
 beet anawer ia, that there are but few who 
 ^IIl venture to expreas the doubts they 
 formerly entertained of the wisdom of the 
 accession and the country fully justified 
 the action of Parliament in relation there 
 to. We are now asked to accept as a mem- 
 ber of our Confederacy the fine Province 
 of British Columbia, one greater in terri- 
 torial extent thsn the extensive Province 
 
 materially adding to the taxation of the 
 country or increasing its burdens in such a 
 manner as to afifect its prosperity ? And 
 is it necessary that a railway should be 
 built at all ? Upon the first point I will 
 not trouble the House, as the hon. the 
 leader of the Government here in the 
 opening of this debate very ably explained 
 the terms of the arrangements which it is 
 proposed to make with British Columbia 
 and while he admitted their liberal charac-- 
 ter on the part of Candida demonstrated 
 
"WH 
 
 221 
 
 British. 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 222 
 
 to the satisfMtion of this House their 
 fairness and the neoewii^ which existed 
 fcfUr the oontieuioiu which were made, and 
 I do not ^odentud hon. gentlemen gen- 
 viUf to object to that pwt of ttwjeh^iL 
 Mil deem it t0 U <|be to Ibis llfMitii ^ 
 answer thti^naarla of tJiojM t^'ateti»> 
 mini who dhiiotr(i6 tOf 9#t{ruieitto5'of% 
 raibriqr at tS^uHtm. *»«^ «^ **** 
 ' ikun;^ is vdokble to «i«y diitlidi^ettMfih 
 i]^<ih|i in irefereboei tMfvto aitdpNialtt 
 riiin and diacriMtit iiao\xt<k>xmikjf»^ 
 
 Ifow I F9ui<i beg to remove an imi>r«s- 
 tifXfi that seems to have tak«b possastdc^ 
 ot uie minds 6f some hoita.' lentletnen that 
 the proposed Railway is buttC' in the in^- 
 teresi of Briti^Adjutabin a^one, or that it 
 is to be Viewed as the price of her ad- 
 mission — tlUs is not Strioiiy the taat, and 
 ifcia unfkir to that FroVince and to this im- 
 portant meastire so to consider it. It w«s 
 clearly understood when the North .West- 
 em Territory was acquired that without 
 Bailway connection between Canada and 
 that CSountry, its aoquisltibn would be a 
 burden wliUe with sush connection, that 
 vast and fertile region would sit once be- 
 come a point of attraction in, the emigra- 
 tion from. Eiirope to the West. Now it 
 is estimated that the length of the pro- 
 posed railway from the shores of the Pa- 
 cific to oonndcl with the Canadian system 
 of railways will be about 2.500 miles, of 
 which there are 1900 miliSB m Canada, and 
 '(0 mUes in British Columbia, and it is, 
 taerefore, unfair to diarge upon the latter 
 Province that it flone is the cause of its 
 construction ,thrQ^ghoat ite ea(^ ledgth, 
 08 in any case we W4>ald naive hUA to cob" 
 nect our«elv0S by rtilway wiUt the North. 
 West ; 'tis true Hb^ mliht have been* 
 woric of j^ater tioiie, and its ultmn-te 
 coqnpletion mi^ht hfye,been!mdre 6t lisss 
 remote, but yet^ As a daO^Aud neoettii^. 
 ithed to be do|i(i. and witfadot' it that 
 co^try would sbortl:^ have drifted away 
 firom us info the gf^eat Bepubllc upon our 
 b^ers, and we should, therefore, not 
 asioribe to the Pscifio Province alone the 
 req>ottsU>iU^ of imposing upon us the. 
 oonatAiction of the railfhqr— the acqiiisi- 
 tion of the North West 6reated the na- 
 tional necessity and the admission of Brit- 
 ish Columbia merely engages us to hasten 
 its completion. ' The hoti. gentleman from 
 New Brunsmoli (Mr. Wilmot) has warned 
 the House agtdnst the measure ond^ihas 
 read, at soine length, from ^dney Smith 
 and other authors, quotations in relation 
 to repudiiition of Pennsylvania Bonds and 
 given us the Ustory of the South Sea 
 Bubble^ aud baa endeavoured to lilcen to 
 the visionary scheme last named, 
 which had no object but money and the 
 enrichment of a few individuals, and no 
 
 promoters but the reckless speculators of 
 that day, the great scheme of a British 
 AmiBriota PaciHo Railway, whose ph>mo- 
 t^rs are a nation' of itfi pad «^te.^ruing 
 lie, and tlie objects of whtoh i^« U> e|t- 
 thi»<MatiCMai 894 i#)eji!Mnt »od 
 ll^ff t& tthioQ of a/cpiitUMnt— 
 ini'lfi^ll^riQ' in 'iM; o^Vibdit^ 
 pra^elio tSAntn liijslitfOmQr prswiww^ 
 ofiisVlMkli^ntleato^pMi'^fiU^ 
 iti' tins '^e^'ais'^>Ar0r^^ia othe^ iM& 
 wWc&tie ii coivpwantln eob^f^otfttimth 
 mi^iojj'9t&» oiffi fri^Vib^ 'nk«h6n. 
 
 Sg^U(Bma&| im mh of . tl^e deleg^t^' w)tK> 
 jwiotfid Mbfedf^tiqn, i^^d In^.fdr j|(el 
 is' iepwied deb&raUon on that ^occaioiob 
 that vdthoi\t a connection by' Miilway 
 through B^tish ten^tory ho union between 
 VC^mada uid the liaritime Provinces could 
 be inaibtain^ and the san^e principle ap- 
 plies to British Columbia. 
 ■ 'Hbe hon. gentleman flrom the Welling- 
 ton Centres (if r. Sanborn) has stated the 
 case fairly enough as divided into 
 three propositions :— the propriety of the 
 union; the mode in which that union 
 shall be accomplished, and the financial 
 arrangements including the railway, tn 
 no portion of his argument has the hon. 
 gentleman taken exception to the prhi- 
 cip)e of union, but has confined himself 
 to our ability to carry out the terms. He 
 takto exception to our undertaking to build 
 the riLIway at all, and more especially to 
 the limit of ten years to do it in. He con- 
 tended Uut no Company can be got to build 
 it for the land grants Mid monc^ sulwidy, 
 whidbi Government havd indicated as the 
 assistloice.whioli .will probably W given. 
 Be haa illustrated his positioh by ri^fer- 
 en(»' io the Northern 'Padflo Bulway, 
 i^pScthi'Jie sifted, could be built: more 
 icbeifbiy than ounce He.has deolakiBd that 
 tm (ievemment are takfaig dp Uliv scheme - 
 widiidtftiiii{bri|BMi<te>e to wbithiir i riS- 
 Wi^'is pivctuable or wt, and' he further 
 states tmt a' very htge portion of th« ter- 
 ritoVy in British Columbia, through which 
 the proposed railway will pass, is unfit for 
 settlement, while the section of county 
 East of Fbrt Qarry to Nipigon lake, is of a 
 sdll more obiectionable character, inas- 
 much aa in addition to its being unfit for 
 settl<>mi>nt, the broken character of th^ 
 country renders the construction of a rail- 
 way impossible, and that even were it 
 built, it Would be impossible to work it for 
 snow. Wliile the Hon. Senator from Kent 
 (Sfr. Wark) adds to the list of diffi«iulties 
 that the cotmtry lying between the kkes 
 anii James's Bay, and thence on to near 
 Wiimipeg is not only unfit for settlement 
 but incapable of cultivation, that even 
 coarse gruin and vegetables cannot be pro- 
 duced from its soil, and that no employ- 
 ment can be supplied by such a country to 
 
 To 
 
 can 
 answe 
 
. 222 
 
 )ulator8 of 
 ft Britifh 
 «e pit>mo- 
 
 (Beat and 
 
 223 
 
 British . 
 
 [APItiL 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 224 
 
 i^.fofjw* 
 
 ^ OCOMipb 
 
 by r«il*r»y 
 on between 
 inoes could 
 'hioiple ap- 
 
 Le Welling- 
 stated the 
 ided into 
 riety of the 
 that union 
 tie financial 
 Ekilway. In 
 u the hon. 
 » the prin- 
 aed himself 
 I terms. He 
 ting to build 
 «pecially to 
 in. fle con- 
 ) got to build 
 aey subsidy, 
 »ted Mtbe 
 f be give»- 
 D ty rtfw- 
 Be Kalliriy, 
 built: more 
 ediM^ that 
 ihlr sdheme 
 
 r he further 
 nof th«ter- 
 rougli which 
 I, is unfit for 
 n of county 
 lake, is of a 
 racter, inas- 
 ag unfit for 
 scter of the 
 ion of a rail- 
 sveu were it 
 to work it for 
 or from Kent 
 >f difiii'ulties 
 m the Ukfls 
 on to near 
 settlement 
 that even 
 mnot be pro- 
 no employ - 
 a country to 
 
 a road when built. It his been stated io 
 another place and repeated by the Hon. 
 Postmaster General thit the Qorernmeut 
 OMmot propose to build or work the road 
 fhemvelves, bat expect to do it by means 
 of a liberal land grant and moderate subsi- 
 dy in money to a Company to acoomplish 
 that Qbject. I he expectation of the Gov- 
 , ment IS that 20 nules of land on each 
 side of the road throughout ita entire 
 llingth should be set aside for the con- 
 Utruotion 6f this work— of this reserve the 
 ciotnpany should be ofibred one half thisre' 
 of in alternate blocks of 20 ailes on eacli 
 s&le of the rail?t>/. .1 wtU 
 now speak ^ of the cost of the 
 road, and for the purpose of illustration 
 will divide it into three sections, and Of 
 this I may say that until more accurate 
 explanations and surreys ore made any 
 esumatt which is given must be a mere 
 appprcMmate one. The Oovernment, 
 however, have not gone into this matter 
 without the best informntion thai could be 
 obtained, and they have the assurance 
 from an Engineer of standing, which 
 gentleman b. very conversant with British 
 Columbia and is now within bearing, and, 
 who himself has made an exploration of a 
 line of railway across our North West pos- 
 sessions at the Rocky Mountains to the 
 Paciiio through the Province, that the road 
 is quite practicable and that even with the 
 high price of labour which prevails in that 
 country, that the 600 miles of it through 
 British Columbia can be built for 160,000 
 per mile, which wcnild give'the cost oi that 
 portion at «36,000,0iX). That gentleman 
 further statca that 213 miles' of the land 
 through which it passes is qf good quality 
 and ill tor settlement, and* a considerable 
 portion of it &r above the> -average of 
 settlementJands in Canada. The second 
 division, commencing near the sources of 
 the ijasketobewan and extending through 
 the Ued. River country a distance of 
 1,500 milea.is largely composed of prairie 
 lands, and though an hon. gentleman has 
 stated the cost of railways on prairie Unda' 
 at $20,000 per mile, I hare placed the 
 15,000 miles of that section at $30,000, or 
 a total of 145,000,000. Then I estimate 
 the most eastern 400 miles, computing 
 the whole distance at 2,500 miles, at 
 160,000 per mile, or $24,000,000, making in 
 all a toti^l cost of $105,000,000. 
 
 (Mr. Mitchell here went on to show that 
 the funds likely to be realized from the 
 land grants and the money subsidy would 
 be nearly sufiioient to meet the foregoing 
 estimated expenditure, and then con- 
 tinued:) 
 
 To the objection that no company 
 can be got to build the road, I 
 answer tlmt on the Northern Pacific, which 
 
 16 
 
 runs within a short distance of our south- 
 ern boundary line where it crosses Red 
 River, a company is building that road on 
 land grants alone without any subsidy, 
 through a country a great deal like our 
 own, and where it dider* from ours, that- 
 differeno9 is in favour pf Canada. 1 am 
 inforuled that the company has already 
 over 200 of its road built, and is progress- 
 ing rapidly. If, therefore, the Northern 
 Pacific Company can build their road, on 
 land grants^ surely we have no reason to 
 doubt that with the aidditiooal facilities 
 which we have to otter, that 'we will get 
 ours taken up. As to the ability of Can- 
 ada to fulfil her engagement in reference 
 to. this road, I need scarcely say that her 
 condition never was more prosperous than 
 at present. Her revenue is ample for her 
 wants, covering her public works, upon 
 which large annual outlays are made. The 
 annual percentage of increase of popula- 
 tion is beyond that of the United States, 
 while a much greater increase must be 
 looked for through the settlement of our 
 new territory, so soon as facilitifs for 
 transport are attbrded. This increase of 
 popuution alone will give a revenue 
 which will contribute largely towards the 
 payment of the subsidy, but it will be 
 remembered that we have the 20 miles of 
 land reserved in alternate blocks along the 
 whole line of railway, from 
 which a railway fund could be secured 
 on the faith of such lana reservation. And in 
 addition t6 this, we have millions of acres 
 of land in the North West beyond the 
 railway reservation. ,1 do "not deem it 
 necessary further tO refer to the ordinary 
 sources of revenue as a mea6s of enabling 
 Canada to meether engiag^ments as that has 
 been already ably dealt with. Doubtless, 
 the subsidy will be so arranged as to make 
 tbe future proviJe for its fair share of the 
 cost of this Government work, and thus 
 avoid the danger that its construction will 
 unduly press upon the present generation. 
 But hon. gentlemen say. we cannot con- 
 struct the work in ten years. If we can 
 get the means to construct the line at all, 
 we can do it in ten years, and if it is to be 
 done then, 'twere well to do it quickly 
 and give the present generation the bene- 
 fit of its use. The Central Pacific road 
 which was constructed through a much 
 more difficult country, was built in three 
 years, and I can see no reason why ours 
 should not be built in ten. But if we 
 assume that from any unforeseen oause, we 
 should fail in having it completed within 
 that time, but that we. in good faith, com- 
 menced and progressed with tbe work as 
 rapidly as it was possible to do it, does any 
 one believe that rfny ditficuUy would arise 
 from such a course or British Columbia 
 could find fault '.' I certainly do not, and 
 
mimim 
 
 ■^fl'WpjfFW^pWSSpppi'W' 
 
 W 
 
 226 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 226 
 
 while some hon. gentlemen have taken 
 ezceplioe that it is to wntten in the 
 Bond, and that the reaolationt should 
 be rejected and be acidn remitted 
 bade for the consideration ofBritUhOolum- 
 bia. 1 think audi a course is fmughtwith 
 denser. The ParUameat of that country 
 wouM at onoe claim the ri^t to open up 
 anddbouss eaoh Individual Uem 6f the 
 conditions, and thus defer indettnitely the 
 consummation of what we so much desire. 
 The Gore Ament haTO, however, eadea- 
 ▼onred to meet this objeotiom as fiir as it is 
 poaiible to do so on this point, without 
 endangering, the measure, by introdudng 
 aresolnti(m explaining wmtther mean 
 hf the prorisioh to opnstruot the rail- 
 way in ten years, and I have no doubt that 
 this will be acceptable to. British Columbia. 
 It is important m oonsiderhig the ability 
 of Canada to carry out her engagement, to 
 look at the character of the lands through 
 which this railway will run. Ihavealreaqy 
 stated the opimon of an Snnneer of stand- 
 ing in reference to those in British Colum- 
 bia, and in confirmation thereof. I will 
 quote from a paper read before the Geo- 
 graphical Society of London in 1869, a 
 uescription of a portion of that country 
 tlirough which it is propojsed-that Uie rail- 
 way shall run, that for 300 miles in length 
 it runs through << % rich plateau of culti- 
 vable soil generally heavily tim I ered, and 
 capable of producihg any kind >f crops." 
 In' reference to this plateau it is stated 
 that it coniaina millions of -acres of good 
 grouiid where large tracts of land are tiure 
 to be taken up as soon as the firet, com- 
 munioatioas are established. The writer 
 farther observes ''that the Indian horses 
 pass the winter out of doors without fod- 
 der or stablin/r. the beit proof that the 
 winters are noivoqr severe," and while 
 speaking of a portion of the country as 
 rough, clearly indicates its fertile character 
 and r ' .Ajptabuity for cultivation, and gras 
 ii)g. With reference to that 
 tion of the country which extends 
 froih the Bocky Mountains eaut^ard it 
 is universaUy admitted to be most fertile 
 in its character, level, fertile and with a 
 good climate and presenting no impedi- 
 ments to the construction of a road, and 
 for many hundreds of miles is of such a 
 character that carts and waggons can be 
 driven over.it in its natural state. What a 
 contrast to the corresponding section 
 through which the Americans have to 
 construct their roads to the Pacific. Dr. 
 Henry, of the Smithsonian Institute, says : 
 "The procresi'of. settlement a few miles 
 west of Uie IJpp^r )i£isaouri River, and 
 West of the Mississippi beyond the 98th 
 degree of Jongitude, is rendered impossi- 
 . ble by the condition of climate and soil 
 which prevail there. * * * The Rooky 
 
 Mountain region and the sterile belt East 
 of it occupies an area about equal to one 
 third of the whole sprface of the United 
 States, and which niust now remain of 
 little value ^o the husbandman,". Pro- 
 fessor Hind m his report sa^: "The 
 arid districts of the Upper Missouri are 
 barren tracts, wholly uncultivable from 
 various causes. • > • Along the 32 
 piM«lIel tbe Iweadth of this desert is least* 
 and tile detached ares of fertile soil, great- 
 est, but tbe i^wt^Sftte number of square 
 mUesofeuItivable lands amounts only to 
 2,300, in a distance of. 12^100 miles." 
 The State Geologist of California thus die- 
 soribes tiie Oolondo desert, through whfoh 
 the Northern Pacific Railway runs : <• Its 
 area is some 9,000square mileiland,ei(eept- 
 ing the Colorado River which outs across 
 its lower end, is without river or lake. It 
 stretches off to the horiion on all sides 
 without one glimpse of vegetation or life, 
 its surface is ashy and parched j its firame 
 of mountains rises in rugged pinnades of 
 black rocks, barr^p of soil ; local storms of 
 dust and sand are prevalent. Parts are 
 entirely destitute even of sand, being 
 smooth oompitict sun baked clay; other 
 parts are covered with heaps of sand 
 disposed like snow drifts in waves of 90 
 or 80 feet in height." 
 
 Yet this is the oharaoter of the country 
 through which the Ameiican Knes-of-Pa-- 
 ciffo Railway are either built, in process of 
 buUdihg or projected. Yet we are tehl 
 that with the fertOe lands of the North 
 West, with a fertile belt of the finest 
 
 SrairM land stretching ficom the Red 
 Iver to the Rodcy Mountains, tiiat Canada 
 cannot build her railway through her fer- 
 tile prairies though the Americans ou^ 
 oonstruct thehv over thci barresjdeseff; 
 and, in addition to tbiMhe^NasM throu|^ 
 our territoqruB^aeitEer so long, so dM- 
 cult oLM>prdadi nor at so great elevations 
 lire the most favourable ones of the 
 American routes, nor are there so many 
 ridges to cross. 
 
 Another of the objections stated by 
 honorable genUemen is, that the country 
 south of Hudson's Bay and stretching 
 west to Fort Oarry is unfit for cultivation 
 and so mountainous and rooky in its 
 character as to be incapable of being 
 utilized. 
 
 Nowj I am at a loss to know where the 
 authority is to be found for such a state- 
 ment. I have referred to the latest works 
 which treat upon that Oountry and I draw 
 entirely different conclusions as to its 
 chartuster. Mr. Alexander Russell, G.B., 
 in the recent edition of his work, fresh 
 from the press, and no higher authority 
 can be quoted in reference to the charao- 
 ter of that country, states that tbe coun- 
 
'TS5?!F7 
 
 ' 226 
 
 e belt East 
 lual to one 
 be United 
 renMin Qf 
 mn.". Pro- 
 ni '«The 
 iMoari »e 
 r»ble from 
 ig the 32 
 BiiisleMt, 
 I mO, great- 
 of ■qoue 
 its omjto 
 DO miles." 
 ia tbusds- 
 rogh whfoh 
 ons: "Its 
 uid,e3(eeDt- 
 oats aoroas 
 or lake. It 
 m all sides 
 Lion or life, 
 Ij its frame 
 pmiuudes of 
 il storms of 
 Tarts are 
 iand, being 
 clay; other 
 pB of sand 
 waves of SO 
 
 t,he country 
 tines-of' Pa-- 
 a process of 
 ire are told 
 the North 
 the fiiwst 
 m the Bed 
 tiiat Canada 
 gh - her fer- 
 ericans ^m. 
 
 Bthrour'' 
 
 mg, SOI 
 bt elevations 
 mes of the 
 ire so many 
 
 > stated by 
 the country 
 
 stretching 
 r cultivation 
 ooky in its 
 ie of being 
 
 w where the 
 uoh a statA- 
 Utest works 
 and I draw 
 as to its 
 UBsell, C.B., 
 work, fresh 
 Br authority 
 
 > the charao- 
 the coun- 
 
 227 
 
 British 
 
 [April 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 228 
 
 try at a short di-tance to the north of 
 Lake Superior lo^es its rugged character 
 and generally declining in its heii^ht 
 merges into siiurian plateaus ot fertile 
 plains well suited for settlement; he 
 says:— , 
 
 *' This declination in height and pecu- 
 liar cbitraoter of the range we mention, not 
 only as meriting notice are descriptive ot a 
 large part ot this section of territory, but 
 especially beoauae they are of importance 
 to us and admitting of a moat direct line 
 of railway trom Montreal to the Bed River 
 Sattement (and the Pacific) about 400 
 miles shorter than the route through Min- 
 nesota now used ; as favourable as to the 
 oharaoter of the ground, as much as what 
 is to be mcde o' the Intercolonial Railway 
 in the country between St. Lawrence 
 and New Brunswick and passing through 
 much land as fit for settlement and with 
 as good a climate, but with less depth of 
 snow in winter." 
 
 I would also refer, in confirmation, to 
 the report of the surveys of that section 
 of Provincial Land Surveyors Sinclair and 
 Forest, fully contirmatory ot the above 
 statements. 
 
 Now, in reply to tha statement of the 
 unfitness of that country for cultivation, 
 let me quote from the evidence of Mr. 
 Gladman who resided 1 5 years at Moose Fac- 
 tory on the Hudson Bay, and has stated, 
 " that the climate and soil are goodi .that 
 he raised |>otatoea and j>tber vegetabltfs 
 th^re in great abundance — that ^ley 
 rtpenfed well, and that -homed /Satile, 
 horses, sheep and pigs were raised in 
 abundance at this point, 230 miles north 
 of the boundary between the territory and 
 Canada. He adds tliat the soil and cli- 
 mate of Albany, which is 100 miles 
 further north, does not differ much from 
 Moose. At New Brunswick House, which 
 is Sj^D&^routh, he says, " the, soil is very 
 .-'good, that excellent potatoes and every 
 description ot vegetables are raised there, 
 oats ripened well, and wheat raised with 
 success, and that he does not know of any- 
 thing to prevent a good settlement from 
 being made there, but it being rather 
 distant from market." 
 
 Mr. Russell confirms these statements 
 and speaking of the Hudson Bay Territory 
 westward of James Bay and towards Win- 
 nipeg, says r "That the country and cli- 
 mate improve equally southward and west 
 ward, the trestem side ot it even to its 
 north west angle is wooded thickly and 
 plenty, the Great Central Region suitable 
 for cultivation." 
 
 Professor Hind, in his j»port, contirms 
 the character givenflf-rtlS'country as above, 
 and statestbat"frTieat is sown 130 miles 
 north-«rFOTt Francis about the 2!)lh of 
 
 Hay, that Indian com ripens well and that 
 potatoes had never once, during five years 
 cultivation, been injured by .frost. 
 
 Sir John tlichardson tells us that at 
 Fort Francis, on Rainy river, where this 
 rich tract of alluvial land commences, 
 wheat is sown from the 1st to the 23rd of 
 May, and abundant crops reaped at the end 
 of August. 
 
 Mr. Russell also states and gives good ' 
 and sufiioient reasons therefor, that the 
 climate is more genial " and of decidedly 
 greater warmth after crossing the height 
 of land than it is on the shores of the bike, 
 and that this wilderness extends for several 
 hundreds of miles to the North. 
 
 Mr, Dawson, in his admirable report in 
 speaking of the same district of county 
 and while confirming the character above 
 given to it, says : •< That the south west- 
 em part of this territory will, therefore, 
 become the site of an important trade, 
 while its rivers and numerous lakes offer 
 some abundant fisheries than those of the 
 great lakes of the St. Lawrence whi'e 
 the fisheries of the Hudson hnd James Bay 
 are mere prolific and abimdant than were 
 our Atlantic and sea coast fisheries 
 
 - In the face of such testimony, it 
 will scarcely be repeated that the 
 country flirough which we propose to 
 build this great work is sterile and' 
 barren ; on the contrary, the authorities 
 upon the subject, and tjioere who know it 
 best, pronounce it to be' valuable for set- 
 tlement OS well as rich in timber and 
 magnificent iisheries. I may here state 
 several gentlemen of Toronto called upon 
 me within the week, with a view of ascert- 
 aining the value and character 
 of these Hudson Bay fisheries, 
 and stated that they contemplated 
 the projection of a railway to place Hudson 
 Bay in connection with the Toronto system 
 of railways, and I have no doubt but ere 
 long we will see this project carried out. 
 The enterprise shown in the Province of 
 Ontario warrants the belief that, with so rich 
 and fertile a back country as the North 
 West and Hudson Bay are, with the fer- 
 tile prairies of the former and the valuable 
 fisheries and timber which characterize the 
 resources of the latter as well as mineral 
 lands of the Ltke Superior region, all the 
 inducements to railway extension in the 
 West are too great to be overlooked. 
 I must here notice cue remark of the hon. 
 member from the Wellington Division. He 
 says that the Act does not permit the 
 admission of British Columbia on the terms 
 which we propose. My reading of the 142rMl 
 section to which the hon. gentleman refer- 
 red, does not to my mind bear the con- 
 struction he puts on it. The fair and just 
 interpretation Ls that whatever terms ma 
 
229 
 
 British 
 
 [Senate.] ^Columbia. 
 
 280 
 
 b« agreed upon— whether in respect to the 
 financial arrangements or the representa- 
 tion in Parliament— by the Legislature of 
 British Columbia and the Parliament of 
 Canada, shall become law, so long as 
 ther are not at Tariance with the pi^risions 
 of. toe Union Act, but ara in aooordanoe 
 with it The hon. gentleman also read 
 another olausc and saU nothing was men- 
 tioned about representation in the Senate. 
 I had the honor of being one of the gen- 
 tlemen who fhuned and sabmitted for the 
 onsideiAtion df Her Mi^eaty's Govern- 
 ment^ these reeolutioos on which the 
 UoioB Aot is based. The question of the 
 rePT o ee n tation of Newfoundland and Prinoe 
 Bdward Island only were discussed— it was 
 not believed that we oould immediately 
 acquire the North West-^muoh leas was it 
 thought that we oould bring in British 
 Columbia within so short a period. I am 
 pleased that the res<Uts have gone %head 
 of oiu* anticipatiooa ; but now that the 
 country is brought in, I am sure 
 that the Parliament of Canada will 
 accept the terms of admission. 
 I believe tliat this Parliament will not 
 hastily reject them in consequence of the 
 view entertained by some gentlemen that 
 the resources of this country will not be 
 able to carry out what the Government 
 have submitted for the consideration of 
 Parliament. But it is said that we should 
 first carry out what we have promised — 
 that we should first complete our canals, 
 railways and other public worlcs which we 
 have undertaken We are making fair 
 progress with our public improvements — 
 we are constructing the Intercolonial Kail- 
 way as rapidly as possible, and we have 
 adopted the best means in our power to 
 obtain information with ronpect to the 
 Canals of the Dominion ; aad I do not 
 think that the Government b faurly open 
 to the taunt that they have failed to ful- 
 fill their promises. Nor do I think that the 
 great object of uniting the British posses- 
 sions on this continent should be left in- 
 complete until our canals are deepened. 
 The hon. member also propounded the 
 statement that the policy of the Govern- 
 ment of England is separation from Cana- 
 da ; but I cannot see that there are any 
 facts to prove this.There is nothing to auth- 
 orize us to believe that the intelligent peo- 
 ple or Parliament, or tbe Ministry of Eng- 
 land desire for a moment thaft the most 
 prosperous and powerful of her colonies 
 should be separated f^m the Empire. The 
 s.ame despatch which stated the 
 fact of the withdrawal of the troops de- 
 clated explicitly that the whole force of 
 the Empire would be ready to assist these 
 colonies in the time of danger. At this 
 very moment the telegraph is informing 
 us that the Under !?ecretary of .State has 
 
 submitted to Parliament a scheme for 
 the Union of the West India Islands, 
 and this step . 'Is not taken 
 to promote separation, but the contrary. 
 So far then fVom Great Britiin consenting 
 to the policy of disintegration, she is thus 
 endeavouring to build up another Confed- 
 eration to perpetuate British 'influence. 
 My hon. friend opposite (Mr. Letellierde 
 St. Just), in addressing the Hous^ on this 
 subject appealed to the prejudices of his 
 compatriots. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE Sr.J\]8£^ 
 I did not appeal to the prejudices of sny 
 one. 
 
 Hon. Mr. MITCHELL— I am bound to 
 believe the hon gentleman, but certainly 
 I understood him to state that while 
 granting pensions by these resolutions to 
 genUemen in British Columbia we were 
 turning out our own people with oompan- 
 tively little remtmeration, and that during 
 the last three or four years we had dismiss- 
 ed officers of the public service without 
 giving them any pension. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. JUST-I 
 have not in any way referred to the Minis- 
 ter of Fisheries. I referred to the time 
 when that hon gentleman, with others, 
 did not find it advisable to pay pensions 
 to those whom they were turning out of 
 office, whilst they were giving those pen- 
 sions to men in British Columbia. 
 
 Hon. Mr. MI TCIIELL.— The case here is 
 very different. The gentlemen to whom 
 he refers were officers in connection with 
 the old Parliament of Canada and no obli- 
 gation rested on the Dominion concerning 
 them. No obligation rested on the Pr • 
 vinues of Nova Scotia and New Bronswidc 
 to give pensions to men from whom they 
 had never received any benefit, and in 
 whose case they recognized no responsibil- 
 ity. In the case of British Columbia 
 we know that there are only five at 
 present entitled to pensions under these 
 resolutions, and it is not expocted that 
 more than two of these will receive any. 
 These men held their appointments from 
 the Imperial Government, and it is only 
 in keeping with Imperial policy, tiiat in 
 the proposed change, that Qdvem- 
 mcnt would expect that those officers 
 should be provided for, that their circum- 
 stances should be favourably considered. 
 The hon. member from the Wellington 
 division has declared tliat we have only 
 consulted the interests of British Columbia. 
 Hon. gentlemen know perfectly well that 
 British Columbia presented a request to 
 us to be admitted into the Union. We 
 invited delegates to discuss the question, 
 and the conference was held in due season, 
 and certain terms arranged. It was de- 
 manded in the original proposition that 
 
280 
 
 231 
 
 'Britith 
 
 [April 4, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 282 
 
 iheme for 
 I Islands, 
 taken 
 contrary, 
 jonsenting 
 ihe is thos 
 er Ck>nfed- 
 iniluenM. 
 etellier de 
 IS9 on this 
 ices of his 
 
 rr.-JUifr— 
 
 ices of any 
 
 1 bound to 
 \ certainly 
 hat while 
 olutions to 
 , we were . 
 h oompara- 
 that during 
 tad dismiss- 
 oe without 
 
 r. JUST-1 
 the Minis- 
 
 the time 
 ith others, 
 y pensions 
 ling out of 
 those pen- 
 ia. 
 
 case here is 
 a to whom 
 ection with 
 od noobli- 
 ooncerning 
 1 the Pr . 
 Brunswidc 
 whom they 
 ifit, and in 
 :«8ponsibil- 
 1 Columbiai 
 ily five at 
 inder these 
 )Octed that 
 ■eceive any. 
 ments from 
 Dd it is only 
 icy, that in 
 it Q6vem- 
 ose officers 
 lieir circum- 
 considercd. 
 Wellington 
 » have only 
 h Columbia, 
 tly well that 
 I request to 
 D'nion. We 
 tie question, 
 ; due season. 
 
 It was de- 
 osition that 
 
 there should be a waggon road constructed. 
 Knowing the desire of the country to have 
 a railway through the Saskatchewan terri- 
 tory, and believing it was only throwing 
 away money in building a waggon road, we 
 arranged the present terms ; abd notwith- 
 standmg the remarks of some bon. gentle- 
 men I think the House will agree that we 
 have made a reasonable calculation and 
 provision for the work. Then consider the 
 nitiional adTantages that must accrue from 
 this measure. We are now the third 
 grei^test nuuitime power in the world. At 
 the present time France has not as muoh 
 tonnage as we have, and before ten yeen 
 pass away we will have made great ad- 
 vances in -maritime importance, for the 
 railways and public improvements now 
 goinp on or in contemplation will stimu* 
 late mdustry and commerce, and our ships 
 will have more than th^y can do. We 
 have the timber, the coal, the fish, to re- 
 quire the empIojn\pnt of a large amount 
 of tonnage and to give employment to a 
 hardy maritime po{5ulation . In conclusion 
 I will merely say that I am confident that 
 the future- historian, of this country will 
 refer in laudatory terms to the action of 
 Parliament if it adopts the resolutions 
 which have been submitted for its consi- 
 deration, and which I trust- will be the 
 means of consolidating British power on 
 this continent, and forming a new nation- 
 ality fvhose limits East and West will be 
 the shores and islands of the Atlantic and 
 Pacific (applause). 
 
 Hon. Mr. SKEAS— I approach this sub- 
 ject with a great ■ deal of reluctance, but 
 representing as I do the Ottawa district in 
 this House I am unwilling to give a silent 
 vote. Having been an i^vooate of Con- 
 federation smoe its first inception, some 
 five or six years ago, it is most gratifying to 
 me, as it must be gratifying to the people 
 generally to find tfa«t the scheme has work- 
 ed BO satisfactorily. Reviewing theprogress 
 of this great question, we find that five 
 Provinces have be^ united and now the 
 sixth is applying for admission into the 
 Confederation. With respect to the terms 
 under which British Columbia is to come 
 in, I may say that I cannot see much in the 
 objections that some hon. gentleman have 
 raised against these resolutions. It seems 
 to me, after.listening attentively to this 
 debate, that the Government are not 
 pledged to involve this country in any 
 Urge expenditure. Manitoba was annexed 
 to Canada last year and we are under 
 pledges to make a highway to it. I be- 
 lieve it is for the inteiest of the country 
 ire should pass these resolutions, and thai 
 if we were to send them back to British 
 Columbia for a modification we might 
 delay the union indefinitely.- Delays are 
 dangerous, and we should not run nny 
 
 risk in a matter of such deep importance 
 to the public interests. There are some 
 little difficulties looming up on oar 
 fVontiers- even %t Pembina things are not 
 altogether satisfactory and the sooner 
 Confederation is accomplished the better. 
 There is the., little island of San' Juan— an 
 object of dispnte so long. That question 
 should be settled, but it can never be 
 whilst British Columbia is left out in the- 
 cold. I believe if we hesitate to bring her 
 in, she may be induced to refuse to join 
 her fortunes with those of the Dommion. 
 What win be the fortune of Canada if We 
 are shut out of the Pacific— what chance 
 will we have of the carrymg trade of 
 China acd Japan ? I take it that the West- 
 em terminus will be on the Pacific coast 
 and the Eastern will be in the city of Hali- 
 fax. I hope the day has arrived when we 
 are gomg to have something done in the 
 centre 'Of our country and not exclusively 
 on our frontier. When the Dominion 
 Board of Trade met here a few weeks ago, 
 they recommended Canals on the frontier 
 but the Ottawa tras left out in the cold. 
 I want to see the limits of Confederation 
 extended to the far West. The other 
 night my hon. friend from Toronto said 
 that this railway should terminate at 
 Pembina. I believe we are bound to 
 build the road through our own Territory. 
 I must enter my protest against nny as- 
 sistance from the Government that will 
 make the connection with the American 
 railways south of line 45' . I contend if 
 the money and lands are to- be given to 
 the railway, it must go through the valley 
 of the Ottawa river. Sxty miles north of 
 Lake Superior, you have as favourable a 
 country to build a railway as from here to 
 Montreal except that it is well wooded. 
 My hon. friend fVom Kent said that these 
 lutds are not worth a dollar an acre, . I am 
 astonished to hear that statement, for I can 
 prove that every acre we have is worth that 
 price, 
 
 Hon. Mr. WARK explained that he had- 
 never referred to the Ottawa valley. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SKEAD~I misunderstood the 
 hon. member in that case. I landed in 
 this country some 40 years ago — Quebec 
 was only a saiall town and Montreal had 
 not a larger population than ten or twelve 
 thousand. Imtnense strides since then 
 have been made in the development of all 
 our resources. A great deal, however, still 
 remains to be done, and I expect during 
 the next ten years, still greater progress 
 will be made m wealth and prosperity. I 
 have great faith in the future of this country 
 and cannot believe we will cripple our 
 resources by giving the proposed assistance 
 to a railway which wUl of itself increase 
 our wealth. It has bosn well said that 
 
288 
 
 British 
 
 (SENATE J 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 284 
 
 KailwayK have berii gieit civilixers— «if we 
 build tbit road througb the Weatern 
 wilderneai, 'owna and oitieH will loon itpring 
 up and population and capital follow in ita 
 track. I tor one am quite prepHi«d to aa> 
 Rnme the retponaibility of voting afainat 
 thia amendment and in aupport of tiie 
 Goremmant resolutions. I belieTe Uiia 
 measure is but the* inevitable corollaiy 
 of tho reaolutions pasaed %i Quebec,' and 
 that it is inaeparably oonnoeted Wi'h the 
 future aueoeaa of the Confederation. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETBLLIBR- DE ST. .lUiJT 
 proposed adjournment as the hour was 
 late. ' 
 
 Hon. Mr CAUi'UELL thought it waii os 
 well for gentlemen to continue and briug 
 the debate to a close. 
 
 Hon. Messrs. Bureau, Dickson, and 
 Dickey, urged an adjournment. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL consented. 
 
 The debate was accordingly adjourned. 
 
 The House then took up the orders of the 
 day, nnd arljournc J about midnight. 
 
 Wkunksday, April 5th, 1871. 
 
 The SPKAKEU took the chair at 3 
 o'dook. 
 
 The debate on ih.(} British Columbia 
 Resolutions was thenrcbv^med. 
 
 Hon. Mr. McMASTER- My views on the 
 question have been so fully explained by 
 my hon. friend from the V ellmgton Divi- 
 sion and other gentlemer who have fol- 
 lowed on tho same side that I feel it is 
 idle for me to occupy the time of the 
 UcuBO at any grent length. I merely riae 
 for the purpose of offering a word of ex- 
 planation with respect to the vote I intend 
 to give today, fciome of the speeohea de- 
 livered in the early part of this discnaaion 
 seemed to partake largely of the spread- 
 eagle style indulged in so frequently by 
 our friends across the borders. Some 
 hon. gentlemen, too, would have us infer 
 that those who voted against the resolu- 
 tions were not only opposed to the ad- 
 mission of British Columbia on reasonable 
 terms, but to the Confederation- generally 
 — a statement which is, in m^- opinion, 
 exceedingly unfair. (Hear, hear.) I voted 
 in favor ot the measure whilst a member 
 of the whole Legislative Council of Canada, 
 and supported it through all its stages, 
 and I have been ready to support any 
 measure that has for its object the conso- 
 lidation of the Union and is likely to 
 render it a nuccess. I am sincerely desirous 
 of doing everything in my power to draw 
 the ditt'erent Provinces more closely to- 
 gether — to dispel sectional jealousies and 
 
 prcjudioes, and secure the largest amount 
 of material prosperity that it is possible to 
 obtain under the circumstances. I i^ 
 quite willing to admit thtt the politiAil 
 aapect of thia question should not be over- 
 looked by gentlemen who take an interest 
 in the progress of the Domhnion. It would 
 b« unwise to delay the settlement of the 
 qnesUon for any great length of tim«. As 
 reapeota the representation propoaed to 
 be givea to Bt!tiah Columb&,' it is 
 nM&T in exeeaa of that aoobrded to 
 Um other Provinoes un«.^r the Union Act ; 
 bat that is A matter which tim* will remedy. 
 Witbr reference to the financial arrange- 
 menta, I may any, that iF not eztniTagant, 
 t}««y are ipuoh mor^. lit>eral than thoae 
 given to the other Provinoes, and neoet- 
 sarily unfair to the Dominion ; but at the 
 same time I.would feel it mj duty to sup- 
 port the resolutions, were it not for tn« 
 clauses providing for tlie construction of a 
 railway, the cost of whii4i I hold to be far 
 beyoml the resourcea of this -country, 
 (hear, hear). It is all very well to talk of 
 its not being the intention of the Oovern- 
 ment to act upon these resolutions — that 
 they do not contemplate s-oending a large 
 amount of money. I give them credit 
 for all sincerity, but we know their 
 views may alter; and we have not so 
 much to do with present intentions as 
 with what the resolutions pr«^ride. I hold 
 that when these resolutions are adopted 
 they will have the force of law and that 
 there is everv probability of this rood be- 
 ing oonstrueted Without referenc3 to what 
 the expense may be. The road, we may 
 be auro, cannot be constructed exoept at 
 an expense that must necessarily entail 
 very serious burthens upon the country. 
 The important question suggests itself, 
 how is this road to be kept up 7 Refer- 
 ence to some of our leading roods in Can- 
 ada may aifbrd us some valuable informa- 
 tion on this point. I refer, for instance, 
 to a railway which miy be considered pro- 
 bably one of the most prosperous and best 
 managed in Canada — J mean the Great 
 Western, running through a territory 
 which is really the garden of Ontario, The 
 trafflo on the line is very large, and then, 
 OS most of you am aware, it connects with 
 the Eastern and Western systems of rail- 
 ways from which it derives a large part of 
 its business—no less than 60 per cent. 
 NotwithsUnding till these .favourable cir- 
 cumstances, whhcli have assisted it ever 
 since its construction tho shareholder8| 
 havo not received more than from 2 to 2^ 
 per cent bn their outlay. The Orand Trunk 
 Railroad may be regarded as still more fa- 
 vourably situated in some respects — con- 
 necting 03 it does with the shipping of the 
 world at Quebec and Portl ind— oommand- 
 mg the immense trade of Montreal, King- 
 
284 
 
 i^hst amount 
 H pouiblo to 
 iic«s. I 1^''' 
 he politiAil 
 not be over- 
 I an li^iereit 
 m. It would 
 D^nt of the 
 of tinM. As 
 propoMd to 
 mbBs' it is 
 aoobrded to 
 
 Union Aot; 
 will remedy- 
 cial wrrange- 
 eztravagant, 
 
 than thoM 
 I, and necet- 
 ; but at the 
 
 duty to Bup- 
 i not for tb« 
 itruotion of a 
 old to be far 
 his -country, 
 ell to talk of 
 
 the Govern- 
 lutions— that 
 nding a large 
 them credit 
 
 know their 
 
 have not so 
 intentions as 
 ride. I hold 
 
 are adopt«d 
 law and that 
 this rond be- 
 rencs to what 
 oad, we may 
 ied except at 
 Bsarily entail 
 
 the country, 
 ggests itself, 
 
 up? Reftr- 
 roads in Can- 
 able informa- 
 
 for instance, 
 
 tnsidered pro- 
 
 irous and best 
 
 m the Great 
 
 a territory 
 
 Ontnrio, The 
 ge, and then, 
 
 connects with 
 ystoms of rail- 
 i large part of 
 
 60 per cent, 
 favourable oir- 
 sisted it ever 
 shareholders 
 1 from 2 to 2^ 
 e Grand Trunk 
 t still more fa- 
 respects — con- 
 ihipping of the 
 id— command- 
 [ontreal, King- 
 
 235 
 
 British 
 
 [Apeil.S 1871.1 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 236 
 
 ston, Toronto, and of almost every leading 
 city and town in Quebec and Ontario — and 
 connected with the great system of Ameri- 
 can railways, Bast and West. At the same 
 time I believe that I am correct in saymg 
 that up to the pi^esent date shareholders 
 have never got aqy dividend at all. Under 
 tbeae oiroumitances how is. !t possible for 
 this railway, even if you can oonstruot it, 
 to pay ita nmning expenses. No railway 
 can b« started under more auspicious oir> 
 cumstances than the Central Pacific Rail- 
 road. It is now in full operation ; it has 
 the trade of 40,000,000 of people; it re- 
 ceives a large amount for the transportation 
 of stores from the Government. Its inoome 
 from these sources is immense, and yet 
 it is well known in railway circles that the 
 road does not pay. , In view of all these 
 considerations, and our experience of rail- 
 ways in this country, I am satisfied that if 
 this line is Qonstructed, and the oountjy 
 burthened for ull time to come with an 
 enormous debt, that will not even be the 
 end of our trouble : for it will be an ever 
 increasing source of expense to the Domin.' 
 ion. It is well l- "vn that a large quantity 
 of the land ugh which this road 
 
 is intended n is not worth 20 
 
 cents an ac.^ .i. is, therefore, folly 
 to say that we are likely to make lands of 
 sucli a character available for the construc- 
 tion of the work. But I feel that I ought 
 not to weary the House any further with 
 my reasons for voting against resolutions 
 committing the country to such a danger- 
 ous policy. I shall therefore content my- 
 self with saying that desirous as I am of 
 supporting the measures of the Govern- 
 ment in connection with Confederation and 
 making the Udion a suftess, yet I cannot 
 give my assent to these resolutions, but 
 am bouna to vote for the amendment, as 
 decidedly most advantageous to the public 
 interests. (Hear.) 
 
 Hon. Mr. MACFARLANE— My hon. 
 friend who b»3 just sat down, is, doubtless 
 a bigli authority with respect to the pay 
 ing qualities of railways on this Continent— 
 if I were interested in railway matters, to 
 no one would 1 more readily apply for in- 
 formation. Ho seems, however, to Ibok 
 »t this question from a very rfarrow point 
 of view. ' Ho only considers the am04int 
 of dividend returned to the ^ckholders, 
 and does not take into (he account the 
 advantages which these works confer On a 
 country. We now know that thero are a 
 number of railways which have been really 
 • constructed by the Dominion, and do not 
 pay — for instance the roads in Nova Scotia; 
 but, nevertheless, they are developing our 
 resources and promoting the material 
 prosperity of the country to a vary great 
 extent. The Grand Trunk Railway may 
 have been a very expensive work to con- 
 
 \ 
 
 struct, but 1 would, like to see any man in 
 the western part of the Dominion ' wh.^ 
 would willingly see the road stop ita 
 operations to-morrow. I do' not intend to 
 enter into any elaborate argument, with 
 respect to the pollUoal or financial aspect 
 of tbia question ; for gentlemen generally 
 agree that British OoTumbia ought ' to b« 
 admitted into the^ Union,' and' that it is 
 entitled to • certain share of the repre- 
 sentation in this Parliament, and very lit- 
 tle exception is taken to an arrangement 
 which gives the people of the Colony suf- 
 fioient; money to meet their local require- 
 ments. I oonfess, however, that I looked 
 with some distrust at first on the clause in 
 reference to the railway— It seemed to me 
 that it might impose a heavy burthen on 
 the country. But when, I beard the ex- 
 planations of the Hon. Postmaster General, 
 as to the manner in which this road is to 
 be built— -when my hon frier.d near me, 
 (Ur. liaopherson,) showed there was a 
 cheap mwie of effecting the nece.ssary 
 communication with the Pacific shore, my 
 apprehensions vanished. It is urged, on 
 the other hand, that the Government are 
 
 le Iged to build this line themselves ; but 
 am of opinion that, under these resolu- 
 tions, we only bind ourselves to obtain 
 the construction of the road by a grant of 
 public land ana a small money subsidy to 
 some private comp.<tny ; and all this I am 
 sure con be done without burthening our 
 resources heavily. British Columbia her- 
 self will soon form» a part of the Union, 
 and be equally interested with ourselves 
 in prou oting the prosperity of the Domin- 
 ion^ and keeping the expenses within 
 moderate limits ; and it is therefore idle 
 to say that she is trying to lead this coun- 
 try into a reckless expenditure. No one 
 con doubt, that since the establishm^t of 
 Union a great stimulus has been given to 
 the development of our resources- -that 
 commerce has increased — that there is 
 abundan'u money to dkrry on the ordinary 
 transactions of trade. I feel naturally 
 some interest in this matter, f.r I have 
 •been among those who took a part in the 
 initiation of the scheme of Union. As re- 
 spects Nova .Scotia, i have no hesitation in 
 saying that she exhibits an amount of 
 prosperity she never exhibited before, and 
 is in a better condition to develope her 
 resources than at any previous time in her 
 history. I believe that the proposed plan 
 of Union with British Columbia will still 
 further strengthen the Confederation. Un- 
 der these circumstances, I am prepared co 
 5ive my support to the resolutions im^ro- 
 ucod by the Government. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CHRISTIE— In common with 
 other gentlemen, I have supported Con- 
 federation from the beginning — while, a 
 member of the {jegislative Council of Canada 
 
MP* 
 
 ■•IIPP! 
 
 "pjuyw; 
 
 287 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 238 
 
 1 supported that acbeme, and I just M 
 firmly believe, as any friend of the present 
 plan, that it ia neoesaary to the suobetb of 
 the IJnion, that Britiah (Joiumt)ii should 
 be admitted into the Coutedenttion. Bat 
 although still a friend of Confederation, 
 and the adnission of British Colambiaas • 
 a member of the Union, 1 do not oonoeire 
 that I pledged myself to support any 
 scheme whioh might be introduced by this 
 or any other aidbninistration. I cannot 
 support this scheme because I beliere the 
 terms embodied in these reaolutibns will 
 be tbund to be Tery onerous to the people 
 of this Dominion— it is a scheme wnioh in 
 itaelf cannot be produotive of the advan- 
 tage, daimed for it tp the people of British 
 CvMumbia, and it must oertomly be most 
 ii\iurioas to the inhahiiiints of this Domin- 
 ion. ThePostmaster Qeiierid in introdno 
 ing this meaiure, did it in a very pleasing 
 and able manner. I think ho made the 
 mofct of a bad case in plaoing the matter 
 ashe^did before the Senate. His speech 
 is able, from his omi point of view. He 
 divided the subject into three propositions 
 First, Bepresentation ; serondl'^, the 
 Financial arraugeraents ; and thirdly, the 
 Bailway. He told us that "were we to 
 deal- with British Columbia, or had we dealt 
 with Manitoba on the principle of repre- 
 sentation by population, they would be 
 .left without represtatation at all." I be- 
 lie\(e that the Government have dealt with 
 this territorial question, not as they ought 
 to have dealt with it Manitoba, with her 
 present population, ought not, in my 
 opinion, to have been admitted to repre- 
 sentation in Parliament, and if that were 
 the proj>er rule in the case of that Pro- 
 vinoe, it ought to be bpplied to British 
 Columbia. Perhaps the oes^ plan to pur- 
 sue would be thut adop «d by the United 
 States with reference to the Territories. 
 There, no territory can be admitted as a 
 State, unlos it has » population something 
 li^^e lOO.OOU, and until that number is 
 resJiaed, a very cheap form of territorial 
 government is established. TDaoh territory 
 has the right to send one delegain: to Con- 
 gress — he may take part in debate 
 but cannot vote. The territories of Wash- 
 ington, Id^^o, Montana, and Dacotah are 
 the nearest parallel, adjoining as they do 
 our North- Western frontier, they have a 
 population of 73,674, according to the 
 Census of 1870, yet they have no vote in 
 Congress. In this connection, the follow- 
 ing statement of the expenses of their 
 territorial organiz '.lions will be interest- 
 ing :— 
 
 Wiufiiiiiffton. 
 
 FopuUtioii — Census 1870. 23,901 
 
 Area, miles. 69,944 
 
 Governor $ 3,000 
 
 Secretary of SUte 2,000 
 
 TrMsurer fees 
 
 Auditor. r 500 
 
 U. a Attorney 250 and fees 
 
 3 Judicial districts with a 
 
 proseoating Attorney in 
 
 each 2U0 and fees 
 
 Chief Justice and two As 
 
 sociates 2,500 each 
 
 Marshal 250 and fees 
 
 Land! to be disposed of 41,600,000 
 
 Idaho. 
 
 Population, 1870. 14,(t98 
 
 Ar<Ba 90,932 
 
 Governor. $ 2.500 
 
 Secretary ^000 " 
 
 Tieaaurer percentage. 
 
 Comptroller 2,000 
 
 Supt. Instruction 1,600 
 
 Judicial Districts with 
 Cltief Justice and two as- 
 sociates 3,500 
 
 Revenue, 1867 64,059 26 
 
 Paymcnte, " 58,005 76 
 
 t 6,053 5.) 
 Total debt, Dec, 1868. .$100,558 25 
 
 Montana. 
 
 Population, 1870 20,59* 
 
 Area 143,776 
 
 Governor $ 2,60f) 
 
 Secretary 2,000 
 
 Treasurer 700and fees 
 
 Auditor 700 " 
 
 Attorney General 200 " 
 
 Secretary Board of Agii- 
 
 culture 700 " 
 
 Supt. Public Instruction 700 " 
 •Chief Justice and two aa- 
 
 sociatea 3,500 etch 
 
 Receipts, 1865 56,620 50 
 
 Payments, " 56,346 10 
 
 $ 274 40 
 Total debt f 110,786 47 
 
 Dakota. 
 
 Population, 1870 14,181 
 
 Area 152,000 
 
 Governor 1,500 
 
 Secretary., 1,800 
 
 Treasurer 75 
 
 mm 
 
■sir 
 
 238 
 
 289 
 
 British 
 
 m 
 m 
 
 fees 
 >90 
 250 and fees 
 
 aUO and fees 
 
 500 each 
 250 and fees 
 
 . .41,600,000 
 
 ,m 
 
 ,932 
 
 1.500 . 
 1,000 ■ 
 )«roenUge. 
 5,000 
 ,600 
 
 },500 
 L059 26 
 i,005 76 
 
 6,053 5.) 
 0,558 25 
 
 2,60C> 
 2,000 
 
 700 and fees 
 
 700 " 
 
 200 " 
 
 700 
 700 
 
 4( 
 « 
 
 3.500 e«ch 
 56,620 50 
 56,346 10 
 
 274 40 
 10,786 47 
 
 14,181 
 .52,000 
 
 [April 5, 187 l.j 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 240 
 
 Supt. Instruction $ 3 per day 
 
 Attorney Qeneral , 230 ind fees 
 
 CLief Justice and two asso- 
 ciates, each 2,J(X) 
 
 These territories have only one dele- 
 gate, each, in the House of Representa- 
 tives, anu are not represented in the Se- 
 nate at all. No«r in the case of British 
 Columbia we propose to give her six mem- 
 bers in the House of Commons, and three 
 in the Senate, although her total p6pu.<a 
 Uon is only 15,000 at tho highest estimate 
 I must say such an arrangeiuent is alto- 
 gether uqjustiiiable. It is not certain 
 that even until the completion of the rail- 
 road, this representation will not be alto- 
 f ether dlsprpportionate to the population, 
 he ex ict state of the population, numeri- 
 cally, is not known, but mcludes a large 
 number of Indians who are perfectly 
 worthless. Mr. Arthur Harvey, in a pam- 
 phlet giving some statistics of the colony, 
 saya that the Indian population are really of 
 no account in the labour mirket. We have 
 the white population stated at 15,000, and 
 they are represented to be of '' extra va 
 gant and wasteful habits'.'' At least, such 
 is the character given them by Governor 
 Musgrave himself; and yet they a, e to 
 have this khrge representation in Parlia- 
 ment. 
 
 The Postmister General said that the 
 iinancial arrangements were published 
 three months %go, and yet no opposition 
 has been ofifered to them in the press. 
 Now, this stateraenr is not correct, fur 1 
 have looked over tho newspapers from On- 
 tario since this question came before Par- 
 liament, and with very few exccptioiis 
 they censure the arrangements. Even 
 the Toronto Telegraph has opposed certain 
 portioni of th>! terms and regretted that 
 they are of such a aufure. The Postmas- 
 ter General said that the revenue of Brit- 
 ish Columbia from vcustoms, excise and 
 postage, and steamers m<tde a total of 
 $363,51)0. Then ho gave the other side of 
 the account: Interest on debt, flOO,- 
 000; Subsidy to Government, $35,000; 
 80o. on 60,000 population, |4B,000; Pen- 
 sions, judiciary, &c., 930,000. I would like 
 to know what proportion of tliis amount is 
 for pensions. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— It i^ dittioult to 
 make an estimate of the peusions at pre- 
 sent — all, or nearly all of them, miy take 
 service imder the dominion and render 
 pensions unnecessary. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CURISrili~We may then esti- 
 mate the amount between four and si.x 
 thousand dollam. This item is not Large, 
 but it strikes me as very objectionable in 
 principle. I am not aware of any pensions 
 having been granted in ttie initiation of 
 Confederation. But to continue— the 
 
 17 
 
 amount for collection of V ntovaa is put 
 down at $15,000: Mail,Steam and Telegraph. 
 63,800 \ Lighthouses, $9,300 ; Militia and 
 Geological Surveys, $25,000 ; Hospitals, 
 $10,000. Then, we must add $2$,0(K) for 
 the graving dock; $100,000 for the pay- 
 ment of land. The total amount, therefor, 
 will- be $461,300 against ^373,500, or $97, 
 800 annual cost above revenue. If we 
 look into the l(>cal resources and expendi- 
 tures, we find that the local revenue left 
 by the Dominion amounts to $151,000 ; 80 
 cents per he:id. !|48,000 : subsidy, $35,000 ; 
 interest on debt, $25,000. This makes a 
 totil amount of $259,003 against on esti- 
 mited expenditu,re of $212,000, leaving a 
 balance over expenditure c "$11,000 in favor 
 of British Columbia, t his, added to the 
 $97,803 before mentioned, gives the colony 
 $144,Sl)0,and reprei'ents the annual cost to 
 the Dominion, over rc.enue, including tho 
 payment for land. The wLole arrange- 
 ment is most unfair to other sections of the 
 Dcminion, and the amount derived from 
 the HI) cents andsubiiidy, nearly ten- times 
 the allowance to Ontario, accor<ling to 
 population. Contrast the expenditure of 
 $212,000 in Britinh Columbia with the $56,- 
 000 or $69,000 expended in the adjoining 
 territories of Washington, Idaho. Montan.^ 
 and Dakota, and you will see how extra- 
 vagant is the present propositions. My 
 hon. friend the Postmaster General, speak 
 ing of the land grant, sai I that it was 
 expected thit the Province of Ontario 
 would give some 9,000,000 of acre.s. With- 
 out discussing the quality of the Imd, I 
 would ask what guirantee have we that 
 the Government and Legislature of the 
 Province of Ontario will give that g-ant. 
 If we are to judge ot the opinions of the 
 Government by what we h ive seen in ano- 
 ther place, we shall find the Treasurer of 
 that province voting against the scheme, 
 from first to last. We find the Minister of 
 Agriculture, it is true, voting the other 
 way, but still, we h tve no reason to sup- 
 pose — especially when we consider if"^ 
 present state of public opinion in th« P -.j- 
 vince, as shown by the recent eUctic lu, 
 that the grant will be given. With all due 
 deference to the Postmaster (leneral, I do 
 not see tliat we are not bound to under- 
 take the tonstruction of the railway — he 
 says wo are only bound to ncMrc its con- 
 struetion. Wh:it is the meaning of that 
 phrase? Suppose thiit you cannot, by 
 means of your land grant and sulwidy 
 induce a company to undertake it, whiit 
 will you do ? You have bound yourselves 
 to necitre tho building of the roul. You 
 must either as a (Jovernment make it or 
 pay for its construction. 1 think we may 
 as well leave the land grant out of tho 
 calculation altogether. Starting from a 
 point near Ottawa to the upper end of 
 
241 
 
 British " 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 242 
 
 Lake Superior, we find the country is not 
 fit for ugrioultural purposes Not until we 
 gee into t1iie~ Red-River country — where it 
 is said there are some 60,000,000 acres of 
 fertife land — is the land at ail suitable for 
 cultivation. West of this to the Pacific 
 the country is almost worthless for agricul- 
 torai purjposes,— there is a .good 
 deal of nuneral wealth, some vuua- 
 able fisheries, but no farming huuls. 
 In conversation to-day with my friend, 
 the Hon. lialoolm OMuerom 1 waa inform- 
 ed by that gentleman that his own observa- 
 tion and all the ' information he oould 
 father during a visit to that countiyin 
 86a; had led him to come t0 the cmolu- 
 sion that only very unall portions of British 
 Columbia oould be made ftvailnble for 
 a^picultiiral purposes. In the small inter- 
 stidal valleys, there was fertile lands, 
 but the quantity was very inconsiderable, 
 and even those valleys were li^blo to inun- 
 dation by the June torrents. The uplands 
 were poor and rooky. The prairie portions 
 were covered by a grass well, known to 
 Western men as " bunch grass," unfit for 
 pasture and indicating a p<')or, sterile soil. 
 Hr. Cameron saw only two good farms in 
 the whole country ; they were on Vancou- 
 ver's Island, and had been made good by 
 large expenditure of money. On his re- 
 turn to Canada Mr. Cameron gave a fair 
 statement of the country and its resources 
 for which he was assailed in strong terms 
 in a letter signed by some forty persons 
 from Canada, who had emigrated to Brit- 
 ish Columbia. / They declared that Mr. 
 Cameron's statements were calct^ted to 
 mulead Canadians, and were altogether 
 too favourable to the country, whidi was 
 unfit for agricultural purposes. The letter 
 in question will be found in the Tonmto 
 Globe of the 18th February, 1863. It is 
 signed by persona from various parts of 
 Canada and many of them are well known 
 to some of my hon. ooIleagues, as persons 
 of respectability and industrious habits, 
 who went there as pioneers of civilisation. 
 It is evident then that money and money 
 alone must build this railway. My hon. 
 friend the Postmaster General said that 
 Canadian railways cost $160,000,000, but 
 these railways pass through the moat 
 populous and wealthy districts of Canada. 
 \ In 'the cose of the Canadian Poeifiu, it 
 \ woiild pass through a wilderness, where it 
 \would cost a great deal to tr.insport sup- 
 plies and materials to the scene of opera- 
 tions. Then, after you have constructed the 
 road, where will the trattio come from. 
 The income of the Grand Trunk, the Great 
 Western and the Northern Railways is 
 estimated at a quu-ter of a million of 
 dollars a week. The Grand Trunk gives 
 no dividend, and the Great Western only 
 2ip. c. at the most. Howci\nyou e.\pect 
 
 in a country without people or traffic, 
 even such results from railway opera- 
 tions. Referenoe has been made to the 
 resolution introduced into the other 
 branch by Hon. Sir Geo. E. Cartier, ; but 
 in my opinion,^it amounts virtually to 
 notlung. ' If the Government oro sincere 
 in bringing it forward, why do they not em- 
 body it fai their resolutions. When I asked 
 the Postmaster General why he did not do 
 'so, he replied that he oould not. amend a 
 treaty ; it 0ould only be changed by being 
 sent back to British Coltmibia. If this is 
 » treaty, a mutual compact, how can you 
 undertake to place a construction otiier 
 than that jiistified by the terms of the 
 treaty. You admit that that part of the 
 treaty is dubious. What right has one 
 party to the treaty to interpret it, and 
 govern himself accordingly 7 If the Gov- 
 ernment is sincere, wl^ have they not 
 introduced the resolution into the Senate. 
 So ^ it has not been placed before the 
 House (hear, hoar). I feel that I have tres- 
 passed on the time of-the Senate, but I can- 
 not vote for tliese resolutions, ft-iendly 
 though I am to Confederation, and sincere- 
 ly desirous, of seeing it a success. I believe 
 that it is for the welfare of the people of 
 this Dominion and of free government that 
 we should build up a large power on the 
 northern part of this continent. Still, I 
 cannot, in justice to the interests of the 
 people of the Dominion, especially of the 
 mdustrious inhabitants of Ontario, vote for 
 a proposition like that introduced by the 
 Government, a proposition, as 1 believe, 
 fhiushtwith so much mischief. 
 
 Hon. Mr. McCLEL AN — Inasmuch as this 
 question is of very considerable import- 
 ance to the people of the Dominioc of 
 Canada, and it may be to the Empire, I 
 cannot give a silent vote. The hon. mem- 
 ber who addressed you previeus to the 
 former speaker (Hon. Mr. McFarlane) 
 whilsC ignoring the« financial features ot 
 this scheme, defended it on the ground 
 that it was a part of the Confederation 
 scheme. Now, I have been from the be- 
 ginning an advocate of the Union in the 
 Province to which 1 belong, but J do not 
 think it is my duty to carry the idea of 
 Confederation to the extent which the hon. 
 gentleman seems disposed to carry it. 1 am 
 prepared to confess that the ultimate union 
 by raiiwiiy of the Atlantic with the Pacitic 
 has been to my mind a grand idea, but the 
 mode of accomplishing this union i-s 
 another question which this Parliament 
 should consider carefully. I do not thick 
 that wc should overlonp the bounds of pru- 
 dence so OS to pass a measure which may 
 be fatal to the success of Ccnffderation it 
 self. My hon. friend h:w stated that it is 
 not to be a Government railway, but thit 
 it will be built by a company with largo 
 
242 
 
 e or traffic, 
 ilway opera- 
 Qade to the 
 the other 
 ^artier, ; but 
 virtually to 
 , oro sincere 
 they not em- 
 ^henlasked 
 le did not do 
 lot. amend a 
 ged by being 
 %. Ifth&s is 
 how can you 
 ■notion other 
 terms of the 
 
 > part of the 
 i^t has one 
 irpret it, and 
 
 > If the Got 
 ire they not 
 » the Senate. 
 d before the 
 latl havetres- 
 late, but I can- 
 ions, friendly 
 n, and sincere- 
 cess. I believe 
 
 the people of 
 ivepiment that 
 
 power on the 
 lent. sun, I 
 storests of the 
 pecially of the 
 atario, vote for 
 oduced by the 
 
 as I believe, 
 
 ief. 
 nasmuchasthis 
 
 ,erable import 
 e Dominiot. of 
 
 the Empire, I 
 The hon. mem- 
 previous to the 
 Ir. MoFarlane) 
 cial features of 
 on the ground 
 
 Confederation 
 nji-om the be- 
 le Union in the 
 ig, but J do not 
 ,rry the idea of 
 t which the hon. 
 to carry it. i am 
 le ultimate union 
 with the Pscitio 
 Md idea, but the 
 
 this union i^ 
 this Parliament 
 I do not thick 
 le bounds of pru- 
 sure which may 
 Ccnffderation it 
 
 stated that it i3 
 •ailway, but thvt 
 ip;\ny with largo 
 
 243 
 
 British 
 
 [April 5, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia 
 
 244 
 
 land grants, supplemented by ii money 
 subsidy. My hon. friend would not tell Us 
 where the company is to be Jbund, the 
 amount of l«nd or the amount of money, 
 or the particular terms on which this sub- 
 sidy would be allowed. He also forgot to 
 ■ allude to another veiy important point. 
 Who are to use the road when it is built '! 
 Not for centuries to come can the country 
 through which it is to pass be settled for 
 more than one half its distance. We cannot 
 ftiirly instance the progress in the United 
 States. During the last twenty live years 
 the average number of immigrants 
 landing in New York has been about 
 200,U0U a yeir. That immigration alone has 
 given a great stimulus to the construe! ion of 
 American railways — it made laborers plen- 
 tiful and ailbrded the population necessary 
 to take up lands along the route to orga- 
 nize States and build up towns and cities. 
 Wo have not, however, reached that status 
 in the Dominion by which emigrants from 
 the old country are attracted to us in pre- 
 ference to the American Union. If instead 
 of introducing n measure like this, likely 
 to impose such heavy burthens on the 
 country, we had organized some simple 
 machinery for the improvement of the 
 internal communications of British Ameri- 
 ca as promised, so soon as finmces would 
 admit, and giving tho fii(:ilitieB for trade 
 by means of steam intercourse, then I 
 would gladly support the Government. 
 All ttiis could have been done with very 
 little expense, and then, we could have 
 directed our attention to other matters of 
 public moment. As respects the question 
 of representation, I may say that when I 
 agreed to the British North America Act, 
 I thought we had some sort of a constitu- 
 tion — that we had something to which we 
 could always refer, and which would not 
 be depart&d from for the most trivial con- 
 siderations ; but now I find that the Pro- 
 vinces of Manitoba and British Columbia, 
 with an aggregate population of only 25,- 
 000, are givfen ten representatives in the 
 House of Commons, whereas New Bruns- 
 wick, with a population of 300,000, has 
 only 15 members. Such a departure from 
 the principles of the constitution, certain- 
 ly does not seem to me just to the other 
 Provinces. But it has been said unless we 
 secure British Columbia now, she might be 
 absorbed by the United States. We heurd 
 the same assertion during the agitation for 
 the Confederation of Manitoba. I know 
 very little about British Columbia, but I 
 cannot bi liove there is any just cause tor 
 this asi) rsion of the loyalty of any portion 
 ot her i .-ople. 1 believe so long as the 
 high tPiittiind the immense war debt exist 
 in the United States, the cry for annexa- 
 tion Will not find more followers in Brit- 
 ish Columbia than in other parts of the 
 
 Dommion. I believe, if this scheme be 
 carried out, as we fear itw.ll be, and as it 
 clenrly ought to be without any prevarica- 
 tion, if made a part of the tieaty, it will 
 impose such an enormous burthen upon 
 the Dominion, that ten yesrs hence our 
 position will not be so favorable as it is 
 new, and we will not be able to offer as 
 many inducements as at present for miin- 
 laining British connection hitherto so 
 highly prized ; us the loyalty of the people 
 will not be so strong when it becomes 
 unproKtable. In conclusion, I will say 
 that I am sorry that tat> gentlemen who 
 represent New Brunswick in the Govern- 
 ment, have so far forgotten their obliga- 
 tions to their Provuico, and to those to 
 whom they are wholly indebted for their 
 high position, as to havO imposed upon it 
 .in common with other sections of the 
 Dominion responsibilities which will be 
 very hard to bear and which tend further 
 to break up that constitution which 
 received a sutficiently serious blow when 
 additional concessions were made to Nora 
 Scotia — a Province which has already 
 received large sums, beyond the original 
 agreement, and yet their grievances conti- 
 nue to be reiterated. Having been unable 
 to occupy my seat, I have not had the plea- 
 sure of listening to the speeches of other 
 hon. gentlemen on this great nubject, but 
 I have no hesitation in voting agi^inst the 
 resolutions of the Government. It is v ry 
 largely a subject of Imperial intej -st, 
 and one which the people of this Dominion 
 have not had time to maturely consider. 
 
 Hon. Mr. BOTSFORD— I was very re- 
 luctant to say anything on the present 
 question, as it has been already so fully 
 discussed, but I have been called to my 
 feet by the observations made by the hon. 
 gentleman who has just spoken, and who 
 has generally very clear views on .public 
 matters. I differ entirely from the hon. 
 gentleman who comes from the same Pro- 
 vince that I do. Certainly this is a very 
 important question, one on which every one 
 interested in the welfare of his country 
 ought to express his opinions. Now I ob- 
 ject to the amendment because it is at 
 variance With the|opinion8 expressed even 
 by those who opposed the resolution, that 
 wo should unite witli British Columbia. 
 It meaiu. an indefinite postponement of 
 the question, although all of them desire 
 to see the union iwcomplishod and the 
 -great West opened up. It is admitted 
 that this is a quystion which the Syiate 
 can deal with— wliich it c,\n accept or re- 
 reject. More than tliat, we have tlie 
 power in the rejection «f it to pass a reso- 
 lution by which we may express what 
 modification of the terms we can give to 
 British Columbia, and in tliat way facilitate 
 tho adjustment of th'fc question. Holding 
 
OT^ 
 
 24o 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 246 
 
 the opinions he does, the hon. member 
 for Grandville should have been prepared 
 to pursue this mode of procedure. It has 
 been objected that British Colombia has 
 hod a better opportunity ot expressing her 
 views on the subject than the Parliament 
 of Canada. Be dial as it may, we have 
 now an opportunity of making our opinions 
 known. Now I am unwilling to postpone 
 the question indefinitely. Qesirous as I 
 am of carrying out the great scheme of 
 Confederation, I am prepared to say 
 that although there may be some 
 modification of the terms of the resolutions 
 deaitabl* : yet, upon th* whole, I must 
 support tn«m as thoy are. lluoh stress 
 has been laid on the amount of the sub- 
 sidy and Uie financial terms given to Brit- 
 ish Golutnbk, as well as on the amount of 
 representation. If the arrangement re- 
 specting representation were intended to 
 be permanent, it would perpetuate a 
 printiple antagonistic to the Act of Union, 
 and I would see something in the objec- 
 tions of bon. gentlemen ; but it is evident 
 that before the next census is taken this 
 irregularity will be repaedied. There is 
 nothing in the resolutions before the 
 Innate which will prevent the inequality 
 being rectified whenever a roa(\justment of 
 the representation is made. It is also, 
 quite obvious that if the resources of 
 British Columbia are as great as they are 
 represented to be, an immense tide of 
 population must soon flow into the coun- 
 try ia connection with the railway and the 
 revenues of the Dominion thereby very 
 largely increased. As to the parallel 
 drawn by the hon. member on the other 
 side (Hon. Mr. Christie) between the 
 colony and the territories of the Umted 
 States, I do not think it is correct. These 
 territories belong to the United States, 
 and they oan establish what sort of Gov- 
 ernment they choose, but British Columbia 
 has a politiod existence apart fh>m' the 
 Dominion, and we cannot exercise any 
 control over it with respect to its govern- 
 ment. No one denies that British Colum- 
 bia possesses many valuable resources, that 
 it has the finest coal mines on the Pacific 
 coast — in itaelf a' great element of 
 wealth — that it has fisheries which must 
 be a very lucrative source of commerce, 
 that it has golJ, to an extent of which 
 even yet we cannot form an accurate 
 idea ; besides many other minends. 
 What then is the great stumbling block ? 
 We are told it is the construction of tho 
 Pacific Railway, and much stress has been 
 laid on the paying qualities of tho roads 
 wliich are in operation m this country and 
 the United States. However, when we 
 consider the advantages conferred by 
 railways which have not pi^id, I must say I 
 think that argument is not suflScient to 
 
 prevent the construction of a road which 
 will cement the Union together. What 
 would Canada do without the Grand Trunk 
 Railway which carries its products to the 
 sea 7 But there is a veiy important point 
 With respect to this raUwny which some 
 have averted to, and that is, which Is the 
 most favourable route for a line between 
 the Atlantic and the Pacific. That recalls 
 to my mind a circumstance whioh occurred 
 some yean ago when I waa paying a visit 
 to Washington in connection with the Re- 
 ciprocity Treaty. There I became ac- 
 quainted with DAny distinguished Ameri- 
 cans, and among them was a gentlamau of 
 very high position who had travelled over 
 the greater part of the North West, and he 
 told me that if ever a oonvention was 
 made for a treaty to^ settle the diffioD|ltieB 
 between England and the United States, 
 it would be unportant for the interests of 
 both countries that there should be an 
 article in the treaty providing for the con- 
 struction of an International Railway be- 
 tween the Atlantic and the Pacific, and 
 Great Britain, he added, has the territory 
 through which that railway should run 
 (hear, bear). If the height of land will be 
 2,000 feet less than that found in theUnited 
 States, it is evident that the cost oi our 
 line roust be less than that of 
 the Anieiican lines. Again, it is objected 
 that British Columbia has the best 
 of this arrangement. Now, the only por- 
 tion ot this railway whioh will be a direct 
 advantage to British Columbia, is that ftom 
 the pass in the Rocky Mountains to Van- 
 Qoiif er Island, and I appeal to gentlemen 
 if the colony would not be entitled to the 
 construction of a road on the same terms 
 as the Intercolonial for which a guarantee 
 has been given. When we came into the 
 Union^ it was with a certain proportion of 
 debt, but this loan for the completion of 
 the Intercolonial railway did not form a 
 portion of it. British Columbia will now 
 '''>me in and pay her proportion of the 
 loan, and who is benefited— the Lower 
 Provinces ; and, therefore, I eay that this 
 stipulation with respect to the railway, is 
 not too favorable to the colony. I believe 
 we are destined to be a great and power- 
 ful and happy people, and, thei-efore, I am 
 ready to run some risk, but I believe the 
 construction of the railway wdl actually 
 promote the development of our resources 
 and increase our wealth. An respects the 
 construction of the road, I must say here 
 that I trust the narrow gauge will be adopt- 
 ed, and in that event, the road will be 
 built much more economically. What 
 will be the population ten years henoe — if 
 we are as prosperous as I hope we will be ? 
 Not less than 7,000,000, and the revenue 
 under the present taritl' will not be less 
 than $2.5,000.000. Our present public debt 
 
 tot 
 
246 
 
 road which 
 «r. What 
 rand Trunk 
 cts to the 
 tant point 
 bioh Bome 
 hich Is the 
 ie between 
 hat reoalla 
 ohooourr«d 
 ring a viiit 
 ith the Be- 
 lecame ac- 
 ted Ameri- 
 ntlenuiu of 
 kvelled over 
 (Teat, and he 
 rention was 
 difficulties 
 ited States, 
 interests of 
 hould be an 
 for the con- 
 Railway be- 
 Pacific, and 
 ^he territory 
 should run 
 land will be 
 in theUnited 
 cost oi our 
 n that of 
 t is objected 
 I the best 
 he only por- 
 1 be a direct 
 ^ is that iVom 
 tins to Van- 
 a sentlemen 
 ititled to the 
 same terms 
 a guarantee 
 ame into the 
 proportion of 
 ompletion of 
 1 not form a 
 ibia will now 
 ortion of the 
 —the Lower 
 cay that this 
 le railway, is 
 ly. I believe 
 and power- 
 lerefore, I am 
 [ believe the 
 will actually 
 our resources 
 respects the 
 lust say here 
 will be adopt- 
 road will be 
 jally. What 
 an hence- -if 
 9 we will be 7 
 the revenue 
 not be less 
 t public debt 
 
 247 
 
 British 
 
 [April 5, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 248 
 
 has not been incurred in devastating wars,' 
 but has arisen from expenditures for use- 
 ful public works. Some of these works do 
 not pay much, but still they are invaluable 
 to the country. Do we not see the men 
 of the Western States saying that they 
 must jave the use of the St. Lawrence as 
 the natural outlet for their enormous traf- 
 fio ? Will not these public works become 
 more remunerative according as we im- 
 prove them and make them equal to the 
 requirements of trade. One reiason why I 
 have little faith in the apprehensions which 
 have been expressed by some Senators in 
 this House is this : 1 heard the same pre- 
 dictions when the Union of the Provinces 
 took place. I heard men of education and 
 Intelligence, say most positively that the 
 country would be depopulated— that ruin 
 and bankruptcy would ensue: anJ now 
 with the experience of the past tnree years, 
 we see the fallacy of these forebodings. I 
 have been an advocate of the Union of 
 the Provinces, ever since the time of Lord 
 Durham. I believe this Union must give 
 us more influence in the Councils of other 
 countries. We have an independent, 
 enlightened and vigorous people to deve- 
 lop our resources, we have institutions of 
 the most liberal character, and a country 
 rich in all the elements of wealth, and with 
 all these advantages, it will be out* -own 
 fault if we fail in attaining a great future. 
 Therefore, I am not afraid to spend one 
 hundred millions of money, if it were 
 necessary, to Oiien up the great North 
 West in which I have the most unbounded 
 oonfidence. The Government, who failed 
 to grapple with this question, would have 
 fldlen before public opinion, and other 
 men would have taken their places and 
 adopted the same vigorous policy for car- 
 rying out this great scheme. It has been 
 said that EngUmd wishes to get rid of her 
 colonies. I do not believe it, but this road 
 will certainly benefit her and give her a 
 greater interest than ever in this 
 country. More than that, I believe she 
 will express her willingness to aid in the 
 construction of this great work; but if 
 the British Gov jinment are not ready to 
 give us ihonoy or a guarantee, is it not 
 probable o: possible that they will adopt 
 a policy .rhich will increase our wealth and 
 at the same time relieve the people of 
 England of a burthen which is now weigh- 
 ing heavily upon them. Every one is 
 aware of the immense amount required to 
 support the poor of England. Thousands 
 ve able and willing to work, but they find 
 it impossible to get employment in Conse- 
 quence of the surplus of labour. Would 
 it not then be a "wise measure for the 
 Parliament of England to assist a large 
 bulk of these people in finding their way 
 to the North West. With these remarks, 
 
 and apologizing for having trespassed so 
 long on the patience of the House, I must 
 conclude by expressing my opinion that 
 the resolutions are deserving of the sup- 
 port of all the friends of Union. 
 
 Hon. Mr. BENS^JN— I have been always 
 in favour of Confederation, and have en- 
 deavoured to forward it to the best of my 
 ability. Since I have been a member of 
 the Legislature I hav.e given every vote to 
 promote the Union,and I see no reason ndw 
 why I should refuse to support this mea- 
 sure, for I do not view it as some 
 genUemen do, as beyond our resources, 
 aa likely to impose a burden of $100,000,- 
 
 000 on the country. I believe that the 
 measure will be carried out faithfully, in 
 aooordance with the promise- of the Gov- 
 ernment, and therefore I cannot support 
 the amendment. I cannot believe that 
 any Government, now or hereafter, would 
 introduce a measure which would embar- 
 rass this country to the extent some 
 gentlemen predict. I believe this mea- 
 sure will be for the advantage of the 
 whole Dominion. Everybody has admitted 
 that British Columbia should come into 
 the Union — that was one of the conditions 
 of the original Confederation scheme, and 
 giving her communication with the rest in 
 the Dominibn. I consider it is the duty 
 of the Government to construct the rail- 
 way as soon us we can do so within our 
 resources. I think that the rood will be 
 commenced within two years and complet- 
 ed at the time contemplated, and by means 
 of the land grant and the money subsidy. 
 Under these circumstances it gives me 
 much pleasure to vote for the resolutions 
 introduced by the Government. I believe 
 they will have the eflfect of strength ening 
 the Dominion and giving an additional 
 stimulus to its great resources (hear). 
 
 Hon. Mr. ODELI.r— Knowing the san 
 guine temperament of my hon. friend op- 
 posite (Hon. Mr. Botsford), I am not sur- 
 prised to hear the opinions be has expresed. 
 In justice to him I must acknowledge that 
 he has always onuni. ated these views, but 
 
 1 scarcely expected him to go as far as he 
 has done to day. He tells us that even 
 $1(X),000,000 or more, would not deter him 
 from voting for this measure, He. tells us 
 also that it is the duty of the Government 
 to deal with this question. I quite agree 
 with him, but I think it was also the duty 
 of the Government to deal with.it in such 
 a way as to be acceptable to the country 
 and not to cripple our resources. He 
 undertakes to inform us what the Govern- 
 ment propose to do, and what sort of rail- 
 way they will build, but he forgot to tell 
 us what the Government are going to do 
 hereaftr- when this heavy burden is im- 
 posed • .1 the country. Now, I have been 
 
249 
 
 Brilish 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 250 
 
 absent from the country for the past six 
 months, nod have not had an opportunity 
 of enquiring into the istateof public opin- 
 ion, but all I can gather respecting the 
 viewH of the people of New Brunswick, 
 leads me to believe there is a very strong 
 feeling of opposition to the measure. Al 
 though 1 admit that we are here tolegis* 
 late for the Dominion at large, and that wa 
 are not actually representatives of the 
 people, at the same tine I hold we are 
 bound in some measure to consider the 
 wishes of the different sections for which 
 we have been selected. I confess that I 
 was astounded when this scheme was pat 
 into my hands on my arrival here, and I 
 felt at the outset that this govemOient in 
 their hot haste to form the .connection 
 had been over-reached by the delegalM 
 and legislature of British <.}olumbia. I 
 am not surprised that British Columbia 
 should insist on obtaining the 
 best terms sbe could acquire, and I 
 believe she was influenced, to a large ex> 
 tent, by the previous lej^lation of this 
 Dominion, in respect to other provinces. 
 I have no doubt, that the terms whidt 
 were offered to Prince Edward Island and 
 Newfoundland, and the additional conces- 
 sions made in the case of Nova ijcdtia, 
 have led the people of Britbh Columbia to 
 suppose that tbey could exact any terms 
 they wished from the Government of the 
 Dominion. I object also to the mode in 
 which this matter has been submitted— I 
 am strongly of opinion that in the case of 
 on important measure like this, we should 
 be consulted with respect to the details. 
 I have listened attentively to see why it is 
 we cannot exercise what is our right and 
 privilege, and am told that this is a treaty 
 which we must acceptor reject as a whole: 
 and yet we find that the little colony of 
 Briti^ Columbia has had the right to ex- 
 pressits opinion upon the details through 
 the Legislature and through the people. 
 I bf ve heard no objections to the admis- 
 sion of British Columbia upon any fair 
 terms, and no objections to a reasonable 
 subsidy for a railway, and therefore there 
 is no excuse lor the course pursued, which 
 is humiliating to this Honse. I find that 
 every one who has referred to this ques- 
 tion has spoken of it as part of the Confed 
 oration, and it would seem thut our pre- 
 sent votes are to be guided by our paat 
 action with regard to that scheme. Now, 
 as respects myself, let me say at once, 
 that when the people of New Brunswick 
 changed their mmds upon the question 
 and decided in its favour, I with 
 drew my opposition to it, as I proved bythe 
 fact of my acceptance of a seat in this 
 House. On no occasion have I endeavored 
 to throw any otstaoles in the way of the 
 completjpn of the work. I am glad when 
 
 the scheme works well, but nt the s.nnio 
 time I am quite aware that there nre some 
 diti'erorices of opinion with respect to itit 
 operation. 1 hope that «rich feel 
 ings will soon dis.tppcar, if even- 
 handed Justice is meted out. But 
 if we undertnke al! these extravagant 
 e.xpenditures we m ly depend upon it that 
 there will be a reaction against Confedera- 
 tion. I have heard a great many glowing 
 descriptions and fancy sketches with re- 
 spect to this Union and railway scheme — 
 Great Empire — Interoceanic road — Eastern 
 trade— a picture all sunshine, verdure and 
 be.tuty. But let lis reverse the picture 
 and paint the some lindscnpe when the 
 storm clouds sweep across the heavens, and 
 the hurricane devastates the land, lashing 
 the sea into fury until it rises in its m)\jesty 
 and engulphs everything on its surface— I 
 do not desire to paint such a picture. I 
 believe the truth lies somewhere between 
 the two extremes. With prudence and 
 economy we may go on prosperously, and 
 probably be able to meet all our present 
 liabilities. in the course of time ; but it may 
 be different if we burthen ourselves in the 
 way proposed for the sake of admitting an 
 insignificant and distant colony into the 
 Confederation. If the golden accounts 
 that have been given of British Columbia 
 be true-^if it has all the rich resources and 
 the magnificent climate so often referred 
 to since this debate commenced— how is it 
 that it has not attracted immigration, and 
 that its capabilities have never yet been 
 developed? Why have not lumbering 
 operations been profitably carried en there, 
 as here and in New Brunswick, without 
 subsidies, and long before the introduction 
 of railways T Why have not these valuable 
 Fisheries we liear of i>een long ago prose- 
 cuted as in Nova Scotia? We are told, on 
 the other hand, that wo must give these 
 large subsidies to British Columbia to 
 meet her necessitiet or she will annex her- 
 self to the United States. This she dare 
 not do without the consent of the Mother 
 Country, and I will not do her people the 
 injustice to believe they desire it. But if 
 tlii> country is as rich as it is represented to 
 l><> !t ought to be better able to maintain 
 itstjlf- I might follow the example of 
 o( hers and present calculations with respect 
 to the building of a railway— seldom, in 
 d<*ed, in this House has such an array Of 
 figures been presented — but after all what 
 aie they based upon? There is no man 
 within these w::l!s or ouisido that can 
 undertake to say :vhat (he cost of this 
 railway will be until we have an accurate 
 and scientific survey. I do not believe any 
 persons can be found capable of ex{iflkis- 
 ing an accurate opinion of the whole cotin- 
 trv through which it is to pass. Some may 
 know portions of it and that is all. Still 
 
•250 
 
 the s.inio 
 nre some 
 ect 10 itst 
 ch feel 
 if even- 
 ut. But 
 :travagaDt 
 on It that 
 lonfedera- 
 y glowing 
 3 with re- 
 scheme — 
 — Enetern 
 rdure and 
 le picture 
 when the 
 arena, and 
 id, lashing 
 ts nMyesty 
 surface— I 
 >icture. I 
 ■e between 
 dence and 
 ously, and 
 ur present 
 but it may 
 Ives in the 
 mitting an 
 r into the 
 accounts 
 1 Columbia 
 lources and 
 sn referred 
 I— how is it 
 Ration, and 
 (r yet been 
 lumbering 
 jd en there, 
 ;k, without 
 itroduction 
 Be valuable 
 ; ago prose- 
 ire told, on 
 ; give these 
 >lumbia to 
 annex her- 
 s she dare 
 the Kother 
 people the 
 it. But if 
 iresentcd to 
 \iO maintain 
 example of 
 with respect 
 seldom, in 
 an array Of 
 er all what 
 is no man 
 I that can 
 sost of this 
 an accurate 
 believe any 
 of expgtes- 
 rhole cOTin- 
 Some may 
 I all. Still 
 
 251 
 
 British 
 
 [April 5, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 252 
 
 here we find the Minister of Alarine and 
 Fisheries actually dividing it info sections, 
 and estimating the cost of each. He 
 might OS well attempt to tell you how 
 many fins the iish in the Pacific possess. 
 The figures are valueless. No one can tell 
 what amount this railway will eventually 
 entail upon us, whether one hundred or 
 two hundred million dollars, and is this a 
 sum to be trifled with. 
 
 I had recently the pleasure of meeting 
 a gentleman from British Columbia, and 
 the infSonnation he gave me with respect 
 to the oountry appeared to me reliable. 
 Ue ooold not help, expressing the astonish. 
 ment which th^ people of the Colony felt at 
 the terms which had been agreed to by 
 the Oovemment of the Dominion. He 
 mide this remark afterwards, where is the 
 money to come from? I replied I was 
 under the impression that we would find 
 it very dithcmt to raise funds for the con- 
 struction of the road, except at a ruinous 
 rate of interest. The state of Europe was 
 such that no one would be inclined to in- 
 vest, England would have enough to do to 
 hold her own, and manage her aftairs with- 
 out getting involved in snch speculations. 
 He told me theio nns a great deal of valu- 
 able pine timber in the country, but it 
 would be found very difficult to get it to 
 market as they had no snow roads, that the 
 large trees very often broke m falling and 
 that being resinous pine the stumps did not 
 rot for ages and that there were no means 
 of reducing them— some w^re so large 
 that they had actually built a billiard room 
 on one — so that clearing the laiid was very 
 expensive. They had gold t>ut were ob- 
 liged to mine so deeply for it, it was not 
 profitable. Copper m abundimoe— but 
 that was abundant everywhere. With all 
 the information before me I do not think 
 we can derive much revenue from the re- 
 soures of British Columbia. If we are to 
 pay the expenses of their Government and 
 everything connected with it—if we are to 
 build this railway, why too are we called 
 upon to pay $100,000 for the right of way 
 through the country which they ought to 
 givo freely. The mode of submitting the 
 measures — the fictitious Population, the 
 disproportionate representations, five 
 per cent on the diBerence of indebtedness 
 per head calculated on 60,000 instead of 
 10,000 m section 2. and the 100,000 for 
 Railway lands are all objections, but minor 
 otuections, which mightbe got over. Now 
 I have come to the liaUway, the real 
 stumbling block in this matter so called by 
 the supporters of the scheme. Even the 
 eloquent member from Nova Scotia [Mr. 
 Miller], was brought to a s^and still for a 
 moment, but he succeeded at last in gett- 
 ing over it in a very peculiar manner. 
 When repeating old Confederation speeches 
 
 he spoke of the Intercolonial Itailway and 
 the Ilalifax Terminus, though once I believe 
 an anti, he was veiy fluent, but when he 
 came to the stumbling block he looked first 
 on this side, then on that, finally he struck 
 his spurs in Pegasus, but Pegasus with the 
 aid of his wings could not get over. Then 
 recollecting the French Balloons he inhaled 
 a little more gas up, up he went off into the 
 clouds, over the Rocky Mountains, to the 
 shores of the Pacific ; but by and by the 
 gas escaped, down came the balloon and 
 nobody was hurt, (Laughter). 
 
 But there stands the tiumbling block. 
 
 The Hon. member from Cumberland 
 (Mr. Dickey]) was also brought up at this 
 uuno stumbling block, bnt he got over it 
 in a very different way. He said ho meant 
 to be candid, but he was far too candid — 
 his views about the scheme were such 
 that I could not for the moment conceive 
 how it would be possible tor him to vote 
 for it. But he managed i^ get over the 
 difficulty at last in a sort of logical way — 
 he said the railway would bring money to 
 the terminus — Halifax would be the ter- 
 minus ; and therefore he must support it in 
 the interest of Nova Scotia. I find, how- 
 ever. I cannot get over this stumbling 
 block in any way whatever. In my opinion 
 no language can be stronger than that 
 usefl in the 11th section with respect to 
 the railway. The Government undertake 
 to secure its commencement in two years 
 and complete it in ten. We have been 
 told that there is another resolution some- 
 where ; but we know nothing about it. 
 and even supposing it were passed it oould 
 notaffect this solenm treaty. This resolution 
 may bind the hon. gentleman to vote for it, 
 but only so long as they choose. British 
 Columbia might say that she does not put 
 the same construction on the treaty and 
 refuse t.*^ come into the Union. Under all 
 the circumstances, therefore, u isadvisal^e 
 to give further consideration to ^his matter 
 and not bind ourselves to build this rail- 
 way and incur all those expenditures so 
 recklessly. I do not oonsicer tLis a Gov- 
 ernmer u measure, nor do I \ iew it in any 
 party light. I believe w? a/o legisiiitcig 
 with regard to posterity. A' dr tt« 
 general election anothor C /emment 
 might come in, and in am an event 1 
 would vote in the same way if a similar 
 question were brought up. Ever since I 
 have been in this Senate i have been 
 struck by the great ability, good sense 
 and urbanity, with which the hon. Post 
 master-General lias always conducted the 
 business in the House, and feeling this, I 
 have always a great desire to support him ; 
 but on the present occasion I cannot do 
 so, although he has assured us that it is not. 
 the intention of the Government to go 
 
253 
 
 JSriiish 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 or^ 
 
 54 
 
 into any !>uc!i extravagant expenditures 
 but tliat ttiey iuteni to be bound by the 
 re.soluuou wliich has been introduced in 
 Hnothot' pliii'o. It' that hon. gontteman 
 
 had til.) sole direclioD of this matter, I ^gistmtSi^ we must provide pensions for 
 
 was no intention to include the Stipendiary 
 Magistrates in the list of Judiciary ; and. 
 in that c-ise, if they were not employed 
 under the 'name of County .Judges or Ma- 
 
 wouUl iiocejxl his nnsuranccs, but changes 
 mxy uud must m the natural course of 
 events oocui- iind we do not khow who 
 will bti called upon to deal with tbia ques- 
 tion in the course of the next ten years. 
 The ret'ore i cbnnot now strain at a gnat and 
 swallow a Cimphell. 
 Hod. Mr. LI VI Ell snid that he had been 
 wailing until that'Ute hour to tee whether 
 an answer would be given by members of 
 the (iovornment or other gentlemen who 
 supported the resolutions, to the point 
 that had been mimed by the hon. member 
 for the Wellington Division, as to the con- 
 stitutionality ot the proceedings with re- 
 spect to the admission of British Ck>lumbia. 
 it had been said thut the Queen had no 
 power to issue nn Order in Council ap- 
 pointing t^iKe new mombei-s to the House. 
 iio answer, howaver, had yet been given 
 by the Government and he was not aware 
 ol any legal gentleman who had attempt- 
 ed to stand up and controvert the position 
 assumed by the hon. member.^ Ue thought 
 the hon. member for Nova Scotia (Mr. 
 Dickey) referred to the question but only 
 in a very cursory manner, and he conclud- 
 ed by saying-at last th.it he left the whole 
 responsibility in this matter m th& hafids^ 
 of the- Government. Now, when we con 
 iidered the mistake we made last year in 
 connection with the Manitoba Bill, we 
 should act more cautiously and prevent a 
 similar luistake. In this connection Mr. 
 Oliver went on to rvfer to the 146, 147, 
 22 and following clauses of the British 
 Nrth America Act to prove the accuracy 
 Oi lis argument and urged thai there was no 
 puwer given to appoint Senators ; that the 
 provision in the GUth clause referred to the 
 additional 'appointment of three or six 
 members, at any time, to be taken equally 
 from the three sections named in the Act, 
 in fact the whole language and spirit ot the 
 Act showed the intention to have the 
 three divisions of country equally repre- 
 sented in the Senate. Now, by the pro- 
 posed scheme! he argued, the proposed 
 equaUty was to be disturbed contrary to 
 the language of this Act. 
 
 The hon. gentleman then went on to 
 refer to some of the details Qf the resolu- 
 tions, and in the course of his reiharks 
 asked whether the Judges of the Superior 
 Courts were to be also Judges of the 
 County Courts. 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL could not say 
 what the judicial system of the colony was 
 at presenV. 
 ■ Hon. Mr. OLIVIER suppoied that there 
 
 them. At the time of^Confederatipn he had 
 
 8ut a question to the hon. leader of the 
 ovemment with respect to the debt of 
 the Ganadas, and got tor an answer : 
 
 Hon Sir !B. P. Tache: All the details 
 are not included in the resolutions ; but as 
 to the balance of $5,O0a,0O6 which will have 
 to L« divided between. Upper and Ix>wer 
 Canada, and which conititutea the diftiir- 
 •nee between the 162,000,000 of debt 
 which will be assamed by the Confedera- 
 tion and the 167,000,000 which Canada 
 owes, a division will be made before Par- 
 liament is dissolved. 
 
 The amount was now nearly three times 
 that stated in the foregoing para^ph; 
 and, thereftre, he was very sus] icious of 
 any explanations given him now by the 
 Government. He had no doubt the Post- 
 master Gei^ral was serious when he tried 
 to make the House understand that by the 
 lith clause of the present resolutions we 
 were not binding ourselves to build the 
 road ; but it was very questionable 
 whether that honourable gentleman, now 
 that the excitement of debate bad passed 
 aw^ would be ready to express the same 
 pinion quite so emphatically. It was said 
 that by means of a resolution presented 
 to the other House we were to explain the 
 meaning of the resolutions, but he could 
 not understand how one of the contract- 
 ing parties could give an mterpretaUon to 
 a treaty. He supposed a case of three 
 gentlemen whom he would call reflpective- 
 fj, John Minister, Frank Canada and Sharp 
 Columbia. John was the agent and had 
 bound Frank Canada to build a house for 
 t20,09afor Sharp Columb». Frank Ca- 
 nada then said to John Miniiter, " How 
 iaityou bound me to build a house for 
 
 go ' 
 arrangement not with the intention of 
 binding you but we will make a couuter 
 deed and, and, although you are bound in 
 the Treaty itself to do it, stipulate that 
 the reverse is the fact." None would pre- 
 sume that the Agent acted honorably, or 
 that the principal had the right to ooim- 
 tenance his action. Was it come to each 
 a point in this country that we were pre- 
 pared to forfeit our pledges? He for one 
 considered the resolutions bound the coun- 
 try by the most solemn pledge and ciuld 
 not see how the Government could do 
 otherwise than follow their literal construc- 
 tion. 
 Hon. Mp. SIMP.SON (who was only im 
 
 MHM 
 
254 
 
 Sti^iendUry 
 iary ; and, 
 employed 
 Iges or lia- 
 ensioDB for 
 tion he had 
 der of the 
 the debt of 
 wer : 
 
 details 
 
 , ', but aa 
 
 the 
 
 >IM{ 
 
 oh will have 
 and Lower 
 the diSkt- 
 X) of debt 
 Gonfedera- 
 lioh Gaoada 
 before Par- 
 three times 
 para^ph ; 
 US] icious of 
 low by the 
 bt the Post- 
 len he tried 
 that by the 
 lolutions we 
 to baild the 
 [uestionable 
 leman, now 
 bad passed 
 iss the same 
 It was said 
 presented 
 > explain the 
 it he could 
 ;be oontraot- 
 rpretation to 
 ase of three 
 il respeotire- 
 la and Sharp 
 'ent and had 
 I a house for 
 Frank Ca- 
 ster, "How 
 I a house for 
 leans of pay. 
 gent should 
 " I made the 
 intention of 
 a a oouuter 
 are bound in 
 tipulate that 
 e would pre- 
 lonorably, or 
 ;ht to coun- 
 iome to Btich 
 re were pre- 
 He for one 
 nd the ooun- 
 ;e and ould 
 at could do 
 iral construe- 
 
 as only im 
 
 255 
 
 British 
 
 [April 5, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 256 
 
 perfectly heard) said that, like other gen- 
 tlemen who had preceded him, he was un- 
 willing to give a silent vote on a question 
 of such magni tude. He could not see how 
 the (jovernment could evade the obliga- 
 tions which devolved upon them under the 
 the resolution. . He was positive that the 
 road could not be built under the terms 
 proposed, and that the Government would 
 have to assume an enormous burthen 
 —probably $1.50,000.000— if it wished to 
 keep faith with the people of British 
 Columbia. He did not see where the Gov- 
 einmsnt itself could sell the bonds neces- 
 sary to construct the undertaking. He 
 had himself little belief that the new ter- 
 ritory was ever going to add to the wealth 
 of the Dominion. He had known persons 
 who had labour^ industriously to make a 
 living in the countiy, and had failed at the 
 last. The tiact that the population was 
 now actually less than it was some years 
 ago was a proof of the poverty of the 
 ooimtry. 
 
 Hon. Mr. FERltlER said that he. had 
 just given a letter of recommendation to a 
 gentleman in Montreal, an intelligent 
 business man, who would leave the next 
 day for British Columbia, on account of 
 inducements held out by some relatives, 
 who had been living for many years in 
 the country. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SIMPSON wont on to refer to 
 the duties now levied in the colony, even 
 onions, and other vegetables it ere taxed,' 
 and ridiculed the idea of a union with such 
 a wretched tiolony. He considered the 
 whole scheme as most absurd, and express- 
 ed his surprise that any Government, 
 anxious to promote the welfare of this 
 country, should have agreed to accept the 
 terms. He did not see there was an^ 
 particular reason for dealing with so im- 
 portant a question in such hot haste, and 
 was forced under the circumstances to 
 vote for the amendment. 
 
 Hon. Mr. FLINT dissented from the 
 views expressed by the last speaker, and 
 denied that he truly represented the 
 state of public sentiment on the question. 
 It was absurd for any one to calculate the 
 cost which the country would have to as- 
 sume in coimection with the railway— he 
 was quite uasured that no Government 
 would date to burthen the Dominion to 
 any serious extent. He went on to refer 
 to the present prosperous condition of 
 Canada, and its ability to meet all such ex- 
 penditures as would probably be incurred 
 lu assisting tho construction of a work 
 which would of itself develop our resources 
 to an incalcalahle degree, by opening up a 
 large and valuable country and new source* 
 of wealth on all sides . He was surprised to 
 bear the hon. member depreciate the 
 
 18 
 
 lands, especially as he could have little or 
 no pr.ictical knowledge of the country 
 of which ho professed to speak. It was 
 quite probable that some persons had 
 failed to be successful in British Columbia, 
 but that was the case everywhere. Men 
 would always be found wanting in those 
 qualities of energy and perseverance which 
 ore essential to success in life. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SKEAD interrupted the hon. 
 member to mention that a young man was 
 present, who had just come from British 
 Columbia and intended to return there 
 immediately with others who would be 
 willing to accompany him. 
 
 Hon. Mr. FLINT went on to say that 
 when Confederation had b^en carried he 
 felt bound to accept the situation 
 and endeavour, as far/ os he possibly 
 could, to malce it Work satisfactorily. 
 He hid not been Satisfied with the 
 course which had be)en taken in bringing 
 about Confederation— he did not like the 
 Coalition of p.jlitical parties for that purpose 
 Neveitheless, the scheme had been wurked 
 out so far by a coalition Goeernment, nnd 
 until it is fully completed, he hoped that 
 they would remain in office. He was not, 
 however, pledged to support all their mea- 
 sures, but he felt it his duty on the pre- ■ 
 sent occasion to vote in behalf of the reso- 
 lutions. He. was anxious to make the 
 Union a success and perpetuate the connec- 
 tion with England. He believed that the 
 people of Ontario were as loyal as those 
 of any other portion of Her Mtgesty's 
 Dominions. Some persons might be found 
 ready to join the American Union, but he 
 was certain that if the voices of the im- 
 mense majority were heard, they would 
 declare for the continuance of British con 
 nection [hear, hear], 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. JUST.— 
 I regret exceedingly bemg obliged to im- 
 pose another speech upon the House. 
 Whan I made my motion in amendment 
 the other day I took occasion to speak in 
 French, but I think now after the views 
 that have been expressed on the subject 
 since'this debate opened I am entitled to 
 some favor from the House, and hon. 
 gentlemen will permit me to answer some 
 of the arguments that hav<3 been advanced 
 why the resolutions proposed by the Gov- 
 ernment should pass. When the Post 
 master General introduced the question he 
 said that he did not consider there was 
 any ditfe 'ence of opinion between those 
 who assiitcd in framing, nnd those who 
 opposed the Confederation of British 
 America, as to the advisability of allowing 
 British Columbia admission into tho Union. 
 In reply I must sny that any remarks 
 which I may make must not bo taken as 
 unfriendly to jiCoBfederation, but as exhi- 
 
mim 
 
 ^WW" 
 
 257 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 258 
 
 biting a desire to make the measure more 
 acceptable and more in consonance with 
 the mterestB of this country. lam ready to 
 admit that as ooloniea of Great Britain, 
 or with a view to our future national in- 
 dependence or even wirth the poasibility 
 of our annexation to the Great American 
 Kepublio, the consolidation of all the colo- 
 nies of British North America must take 
 place and is desirable, provided it is se- 
 cured by means adequate to our circum- 
 stances, and that such a oonsolidation is 
 effeotea with prudenoe and due regard to 
 our actual liabilities and to our tinanotal 
 abilities. I said the first time I spoke ' on 
 the question that we are deranging the 
 basis on which the representation of the 
 country is established. We have had quite 
 difficulties enough previous to Confedera- 
 tion to warn us now of the danger o^ con- 
 stitutional inovatipns. We have had great 
 difficulties on this very score— we opposed 
 the principle aa destructive of the Act of 
 Union into which we had entered against 
 our will with Uppoj; Canada. But the very 
 men who opposed >*epreaentation by popu- 
 lation were the first to jump up and say 
 that they would assist in passing Confeder- 
 ation on that basis. From that moment 
 they have admitted that principle— it is a 
 part of our Ccnstitution. But whi^t are 
 they doing now ? They are giving the 
 West a larger influence as compared with 
 Lower Canada, at direct variance with the 
 very Act of Union. Then the Postmaster 
 General went on to refer to the second 
 part of the question— the money arrange- 
 ment. Although I am not preporfjl to 
 admit that the terms are fair td the'^other 
 Provinces, nevertheless we consider them 
 less objectionable than the other part of 
 the scheme. We hate said little com- 
 paratively about them, fbr we might have 
 been considered as giving a factious oppo- 
 sition to the resolutions. Aa respects the 
 question of the railway it has been said by 
 the Government that this scheme is not 
 entirely' in the nature of a treaty, and that 
 we may by certain legislation dispose of 
 the absolute clause in the resolutions. 
 Now that clause says that the Government 
 pledges itself to commence the road 
 ivithin two years' time and complete it 
 Trithin ten years, so as to connect with the 
 network of railways in Canada. We have 
 been tola that this railway will be at least 
 2,500 miles in length. We say, before w© 
 enter into such a colossal undertaking, we 
 wish to see your estimates; but in reply 
 ^e are told, " You may make them your- 
 selves." When a scheme of such magnitude 
 is placed before the country the Goverr 
 ment aie bound to place before this House 
 and country some estimate of the coat. 
 When we enquire what are the difficulties we 
 liave to encounter we are told that they are 
 
 not gre:iter than those the Americans have 
 had to meet in connection with railways to 
 the Pacific. When we ask the number of 
 bridges, or the quantity of iron that will 
 be required, we have not a word from the 
 Government in reply. In the case of an 
 individual, when he commences any larse 
 enterprise, he makes an estimate of the 
 expense to see if he has the means of car- 
 rying it out ; but here we are to take a 
 leap in the dark. But we are met by the 
 general observation that a large country 
 like this which has been progressing so 
 rapidly may go into the pftosent enterprise 
 without incurring any danger. No one can 
 say that this doctrine, is sound— on the 
 contrary it is fraught with danger. If you 
 build the road according to the estimates 
 which have been given of similar works in 
 the Unit«d States it will cost over $100,- 
 000,000. Taking the figures which have 
 been given by the members of the Govern-, 
 ment we find that the sum of $25,000,000 
 would represent the bonus to be given by 
 the Dominion, and taking the highest price 
 estimated for the land grant we have an 
 other sum of 32 or 35 trillions, making 
 $57,000,000 altogether, to build a rood 
 which cost so much mor^ in the United 
 States. Under these circumstances I ask 
 ought the Government to embark in what 
 would be certainly a most hazardous under- 
 taking. I have been told that the road 
 will not cost us anything— ^that it will be 
 built by Companies paid in lands. Suppose 
 we do not find a Company willing to under- 
 t.ake the work. The hon, member from 
 Montreal (Mr. Ferrier) said that a Company 
 would offer before next session ; but if it is 
 so easy to procure one now, why not secure 
 one beforehand and g'we the House the 
 information which is now wanting. If we 
 cannot procure one now are we likely to 
 do so when it is clear that the road will not 
 cost le<!s than $150,000,000, the most accu- 
 rate estimate probably. 
 
 Hon. Mr. FERRIER- 1 spoko of what 1 
 hoped to see realized — that we shall have 
 three or four companies before next year 
 asking to construct this work. 
 
 Hon. Mr, LETELLIER DE ST. JUST— 
 Notwithstanding my high respect for the 
 hon. member I cannot believe that we can 
 expect any such result with $32,000,000 of 
 land and $25,000,000 of money. 
 
 Hon. Mr. FERRIER— The land on the 
 Northern Pacitio is now selling at $7 or $*! 
 an acre. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. JUST - 
 I know that lands in this country have 
 never brought such a price. More than 
 that, in Ontario where the lands are of 
 superior uharaoter a large quantity remain 
 unpaid in the hands of the Government. 
 It is the same in the Province of Quebec. 
 
 ■n 
 
258 
 
 ■ioana have 
 tttilways to 
 number of 
 a that will 
 1 from the 
 oat* of an' 
 I any larse 
 tate of the 
 tans of oar- 
 to take H 
 net by the 
 ge country 
 {resaing so 
 enterprise 
 No one can 
 <!•— on (he 
 er. If you 
 s estimates 
 ar works in 
 over f 100,- 
 whioh have 
 he Oovemv 
 125,000,000 
 le given by 
 ighest price 
 ire have an 
 ns, making 
 lild a roaa 
 the United 
 woes I ask 
 irk in what 
 lous under- 
 lat the road 
 it will be 
 Is. Suppose 
 Qgtounder- 
 »mber from 
 a Company 
 ; butifitis 
 ^ not secure 
 House the 
 ing. If we 
 ve likely to 
 oad will not 
 ) most accu- 
 
 o of what I 
 
 shall have 
 
 i next year 
 
 rr. JUST— 
 
 pect for the 
 that we can 
 2,000,000 of 
 
 and on the 
 
 5 ot $7 or fS 
 
 ST. JUST - 
 >untry have 
 More than 
 ands are of 
 ttity remain 
 iovemment. 
 ! of (iuebeo. 
 
 259 
 
 British 
 
 [April 5, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 260 
 
 And the«e lands were granted nt from 
 Is. 6d. to 'x. nn ache. 
 
 Hon. Mr FERRIER— The prnirie liinds 
 are far superior to those of wbioh you are 
 speaking. 
 
 . Hon. Mr. LEIELLIE'.! DE ST. JUST— 
 X am rojtdy to admit the value of the prai- 
 rie landM, but Hsf'irasthe country between 
 Lake of the Woods and Upper Canada is 
 oonoerne 1, there may be spots of good 
 soil, but the rest is barren, whatever the 
 Miniiiter of Marinu may say to the contrary. 
 
 Hon. Mr. MITCHELL-I gave you the 
 best authority on the subject. 
 
 Hon. Mf. LETELLIEK DE ST! JUST— 
 1 am not saying all the land is bad, but 
 two thirds, at least, is arid, barren, cut up 
 by lakes and rivers. As soon as we have 
 crossed the swamps of the Lake of the 
 Woods we come to the prairie lands and 
 they extend as far as the south brunch of 
 the river Saskatchewan. I admit these 
 lands are splendid, but I do say that from 
 that branch you do not tind such lands 
 until you come a little north near Fort a 
 la Corne. I know it is impossible to grow 
 wheat or even barley on these prairie 
 lands- they succeed with vegetables— I 
 know this to be a fact from relatives of 
 mine who are living there. Or take the 
 reports we have of this country— that of 
 Hind, for instance, — he gives no good ac- 
 count ol the greater portion of this coun 
 try. Under these circumstances 1 thii^k 
 we should pause before incurring an ex- 
 penditure of (150,000,000 and learn some- 
 thing a'oout the country through which 
 the road is to pass. Why are we imposing 
 such a burden at this moment? We are 
 told that it is necessary that we should 
 unite with British Columbia, and this I 
 admit; but is a railway necessary to keep 
 up the connection? We have been con- 
 nected for along time with Great Britain 
 without any such bond of union. My hon. 
 ii'iend near me (Hon. Mr. Macplierson) 
 tioid that if this scheme is to be carried on 
 by the opening ot a road from the east he 
 hardly thought it was within the means of 
 the country to accomplish it ; but he added 
 that the most feasible mode was to get 
 into the Manitoba country by forming a 
 conjunction with the American roads. > 
 
 Hon- Mr. MACPHER80N-1 said that 
 ' the only feasible way with bur present 
 means and information was to get the re 
 ({uisite facilities by using the American 
 niitways and commencing our own at 
 Pembina. ..^ 
 
 Hon. Mr. SANBORN-Perhaps the Post- 
 master General would give us some infor- 
 mation on this point, and tell us whether 
 the Government adopt the views of the 
 hon. member from Toronto ? 
 
 Hon. Mr. MACPaERSON— I have no- 
 thing to do with the Government in the 
 matter. I know that the greit obstacle is 
 th^ country between Lake Nipissing and 
 Fort Garry, and 1 wish to avoid any large 
 expenditure at present 
 
 Hon. Mr. LEFELLIER DE Sf. JUST— 
 The Premier of the Government stated 
 elsewhitre that the road was to be built 
 from some place no tr Lake Nippi-sing as 
 far as the 6ocky Mountains ; but 1 think 
 tbe Postmaster General should be more 
 explicit on this subject, 
 
 Hon. Mr.CAMPBELL~The Government 
 are not pledged to any particular point — 
 that is a question not yet determined — 
 certainly we do not propose to construct a 
 railway in the United States. — (Liughter.) 
 Hon Mr. LETELLIf.R DE ST. JUSf— 
 What 1 do complain of is the m inner in 
 which the Government gives information 
 I to the House. Whenever they are asked 
 I for information on any particular point 
 I they are mo^t vague and evasive in 
 I their replies. I take it for granted 
 I that for the sake of contradicting the 
 I liberal.viows of the hon. member for Toi-on- 
 I to, the Postmaster General is ready to 
 ; allow this matter to stand in this dubious 
 state ; but it is not the same with the hon. 
 Receiver General (Mr Chapais) who told 
 us, with grave solemnity, that he would 
 never consent to see our communic vtions 
 with British Columbia carried on even 
 partially over American railways ; that it 
 would be contrary to the policy of 
 the Government, and moreover, 
 a link of railway from Fort Garry to Pem- 
 bina to combine with the American Pacific 
 Railroad would be a dangerous policy. But 
 the most extraordinary statement on his 
 part was that if such a communication 
 was opened, the Americans would pour 
 into our territory of Maniteba, that 
 they would settle on the lands of the 
 Province, and later that they would annex 
 Mnnitoba to the Great Republic as they 
 did in the case of Texas. Well now, hon. 
 gi^ntUmen, these contradictions from the 
 Hon. Postmaster General, and the ridicu- 
 lous narrow views or the Hon. Receiver 
 General on the advantages of such an im- 
 migration, need no better answer than 
 their absurdity. The cost of this PaciKc 
 Railway is a matter upon which the Gov- 
 ernment admit they are unable to give us 
 any information ; and in the position in 
 which this Parliament is most unjustifiably 
 placed in being asked to act blindfold, no 
 other mode of ascertaining the magnitude 
 of its cost and of its difficulties is left to 
 us, than to examine certain reports ma<le 
 by engineers, or by comparison either with 
 our Intercolonial or with the American 
 Pacific R lilroad. Before going briefly into 
 
^«^^ppp 
 
 T 
 
 261 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 262 
 
 268. 
 
 ttis examinAllOn, 1 lUliik, by enlarging tb« 
 view* entertained by tlie bou. member for 
 Toronto, tha^ Brituh Columbia as well ait 
 Manitoba could comparative!} be placed 
 in communioation with the DoL^inion at a 
 very iaaignitioant outlay ; iirsc. by the 
 opening of a link between Fort tiany and 
 Pembina where the American Paoifio 
 Kailway will have an extenaion in a very 
 short time from this, and, seoondly, by 
 building a link on the shoree of the Pacific 
 from British Columbia to the Vorthern 
 Pacific Railway, which the Americans are 
 now building ; affording to our two sister 
 oolonies the advantages of mutual com- 
 munication, and of partaking of all the 
 advantages of the great railway networks 
 of the United States and of Canada. Then, 
 hon. gentleman, Manitoba and Britisli 
 Columbia, having these fisoilities, could we 
 not, without prejudice to their interest and 
 with advantage to this Dominion, await 
 th« future, when after due examanation, 
 we could afford to open more direct com- 
 munications through British territory. 
 Taking this tr ere practical view of the case 
 we would no' impose upon this dominion, 
 a burthen that might be rainous-.aad 
 affect our credit in the money market by 
 the execution of works presenting so many 
 difficulties in point of execution as well as 
 in a tinancial point of view. Now, I take 
 the report of Mr. Fleming oh this vei7 
 railway, and I find that it cannot be safely 
 constructed with our present means ; that 
 it must be attended with great difficulties 
 which we cannot w«ll overcome, i will 
 ({uote a few extracts fromihis report ; and 
 1 must aay at the outset that, if there is a 
 document from which the Qovemment 
 ^ght to have obtained information it is 
 this : «Measuring on the map along the^ i 
 general route of the proposed line from 
 the mouth of Fraser's River to one of the 
 best passages yet discovered In the Rocky 
 Koun^aiDB«long the general direction ef 
 the 'Fertile Belt,' keeping South of the 
 Xorth Saskatchewan, crossing the Red 
 Kiver near the settlement, bridging the 
 Winnipeg River at the North «nd of the 
 Lake of the Woods, striking throHgh the 
 co untry to the most n ortherly^6erid"of the 
 sTiore "of tikd Btt^iftfiOT; thfencff inadtreet 
 line to a crossing on the French River, west 
 of Lake Nipissing. nnd from this point con 
 necting witli the existing railway system of 
 Canada, either at the town of Barrie, or at 
 Ppteiboro, or at the city of Ottawa. 
 
 ■That a. just conception may be formed 
 of the real magnitude of the project under 
 (lisous&ion. and the means necessary to its 
 attainment, attention may for a moment 
 be drawn to a few leadins details. 
 
 *'The construction of 13,000 miles of 
 railway measured by the average standard- 
 of similar works existing in this Country 
 implies the performance of labourer's work 
 
 sufficient to give employinent to 10,000 
 men for tive or six years, it involves the 
 delivery of 5,000,000 cross ties or sleepers, 
 and over 200,(XX> tons of iron rails for the 
 " permanent way ■," it comprises the erec- 
 tion of 60,000 poles hung with 1,000 tons 
 of wire of the telegraph ; it necessitates 
 the creation of motive power equivalent to 
 over 50,000 horses, which power would be 
 oonoentriited in 400 locomotives; it in- 
 volves the production of from 6,000 to 
 6000 oars of all kinds, which coupled with 
 the locomotives, "would make a smgle train 
 over 30 miles in length ; and lastly, it im 
 pHes « grons expenditure on construction 
 and equipment of not less than f!OO,0OO,- 
 000. 
 
 . "It will likewise serve as a salutary dieek 
 on basty oonclusions, to weigh before hand 
 the cost ot operating a truly' gigantic es- 
 tablishment of the kind after its perfect 
 completion; a few figures derived from 
 actual results will show that the first con- 
 struction of nilway through the interior of 
 British North America is even a less for- 
 midable undertaking than that of keepmg 
 it afterwards open in the present condition 
 o f th e Cou ntry. For operating the line 
 successl\illy, the f^el alone require<l in 
 each year, and estimated as wood, would 
 considerably exceed 200,(KX) ooras; for 
 keeping the roods in repair, a regiment of 
 2,000 trackmen would constantly be em- 
 ployed in small gangs through out 
 its entire length; for the tame 
 purpose, there would, on an average, 
 be annually reqnired 600,000 new cross ties, 
 as-well as nearly 30,000 tons of new or re- 
 rolled iron rails— the annual repairs of 
 rolling stock would not cost less than one 
 million doilara— over 5,000 employees of 
 all kinds would constantly be under pay. 
 and as these men would usually represent 
 each a family, there would not be far short 
 of 20,000 souls subsisting by the operation 
 of the road. The aggregate amount of 
 ways in each year after the road was in 
 operation would swell out to nearly $2,000, 
 000, while the gross expenditure for opera- 
 ting and maintaining works would annual- 
 ly exceed $8,000,000. 
 
 *< Again, if to this last sura be added 
 the interest on first cost, it becomes evi- 
 dent that imtil the gross earnings of the 
 railway in each year come up to the enor- 
 mous sum of li' 14,000,000, it could not pay 
 interest on the capital invested." 
 
 It has been stated very incorrectly by 
 hon. the lieceiver General that the Ameri- 
 can Pacific Railroad was built with grants 
 of landd only. Well, I nity state, for his 
 informntion, that tliis is not the case, for, 
 according to the facts as stated in the 
 AmericAU Annual Cyclopedia (1869) he 
 will see that the Pacific Railroad wns com- 
 pleted on the lO'.li of May, 186". by the 
 
•\ 
 
 262 
 
 to 10,000 
 
 rolres the 
 
 ■Isepan, 
 
 lU for th» 
 
 > tb« areo- 
 
 1,000 toM 
 
 ec«Mitat«B 
 
 uivalent to 
 
 r would b« 
 
 m; it in- 
 
 6,000 to 
 
 uplad with 
 
 lingle train 
 
 ■tly, it im 
 
 mstruotion 
 
 $: 00,000,- 
 
 itaryeheok 
 Mfore hand 
 ligantio m- 
 iu perfect 
 ■ivea from 
 e first oon- 
 I interior of 
 1 » leM for- 
 of keeping 
 It condition 
 g the line 
 reqaire<l in 
 rood, would 
 ooras; for 
 regiment of 
 nily be em- 
 rough out 
 he fame 
 ji average, 
 w croas tiei, 
 new or re- 
 repain of 
 u than one 
 iplcqrees of 
 under pay, 
 f represent 
 be far short 
 » operation 
 amount of 
 xwd was in 
 u\y $2,000, 
 eforopera- 
 ild annual- 
 be added 
 tcomes evi- 
 ings of the 
 the enor- 
 lid not pay 
 
 rrectly by 
 the Ameri- 
 Xh grants 
 te, for his 
 
 case, for, 
 cd in the 
 (1869) he 
 
 was com- 
 7, bv tlie 
 
 268. 
 
 British 
 
 [April 6, 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 264 
 
 Junction of the Central Pacific and the 
 Union Pacific llailroadi ; that thi» rapid 
 progress was largely due to the aid ren- 
 dered by the Oeneral Qoviernmeut, that 
 the Union Pacific Railroad was largely pa- 
 tronized bv a Government possessing the 
 means of doing so, by lurger grants of land 
 than thoie proposed for our railway, and 
 by a direct assistance in bonds of that Gov- 
 ernment maturing in 30 years bearing six 
 per cent interest payable in gold ; that 
 subsequently the company obtained the 
 right to issue its first mortgage to an 
 amount e^ual to the bonds of the Govern- 
 ment, which were made a second lien on 
 the road, making an aggregate of 158,685,- 
 000 to start, with — ana m' -Rover that a 
 short time ago the contractut-s were dis- 
 pensed of paying the inte^-est on the 
 Government Bonds for a period of thirty 
 years. 
 
 And now that this important rout^ is 
 accomplished, we mav find there some 
 data that mignt give us an approximative 
 id4a of the liabilities we shall incur if 
 this scheme is adopted. 
 
 The average cost of building the Pacific 
 was at the rate of 168,058 per mile for 914 
 miles west iVom Omaha, nnii <^90,0<X) per 
 mile for 186 miles. Let. '. tak'> loe low- 
 est of the two figures per u !e for over 
 2, 700 miles, and the result will be for the 
 cost of construction 1187,756,600. 
 
 If we consider the cost of the Interco- 
 lonial, which may be safely put at $25,- 
 000,000, though under f&r more favorable 
 conditions for itsconstiuction, we find that 
 the cost per mile &nnot be leas than $50,- 
 000, which is et^ual to Mr. Fleming's 
 'estimate of the Canadian Route, upon 
 which he has pronounced the followiog 
 judgment: 
 
 " The ide.i of oonstructing upwards of 
 2,000 miles of railway in the manner which 
 has characterized tho establishment of si- 
 milar undertakings heretofore, through a 
 country almost uninhabited except by scat- 
 tered bands of wandering Indian8,may well 
 be viewed as a commercial absurdity. It 
 has been shown that the maintaining and 
 operating of a railway of this extent, after 
 its perfect completion, would cosV^tiot less 
 than eight millions dollars per annum, and 
 that its traffic Would have to yield in gross 
 receipts fourteen millions of dollars every 
 year to enable the work to pay interest on 
 the capital invested. 
 
 " Could it be satisfactorily shown that 
 these receipts might even be approached, 
 the work would undoubtedly be a legiti 
 mate investment for private capital, and 
 we might fairly expect to see it under- 
 taken by private enterprise ; but at pre- 
 sent no such inducement can be held out ; 
 however important the line would be m 
 
 many respects the busiiicsoi'the country 
 travene<l could not for many yeoni jield 
 more than a fractional part of the revenue 
 required to keep it opon, and lh« iratUo 
 from ocean to ocean could not be expected 
 even by the most sanguine to give constant 
 an>i profitable employment to a force of 
 four hundred locomotives without wl uih 
 the road would scarcely psy '' 
 
 It is all very well for the promoters of this 
 scheme to come forward and say that you 
 need not be afraid if companies will not 
 work th^ railw^. The hon. member from 
 Montreal (Mr. Ferrier) would be in a quan- 
 dary, if, when the road is finished, we were 
 to grant him all the plant and rolling 
 ■tock on the condition that he would keep 
 the road in running order. 
 
 Hon. Mr. FERRIER— Ten years hence 
 matters will be even better than they are 
 new. 
 
 Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. .JUST - 
 We cannot forecast the future. I will not 
 trouble the House with any more extracts 
 from Mr. Fleming's Report, but I will ask 
 hon. gentlemen to consider calmly and 
 seriously whether what \ have Uid before 
 you — the result of the reflection and ex- 
 perience of the chief (lOvernment Engi- 
 neer — is such as to induce you to give your 
 adhesion to this rash scheme of railway 
 construction. There is a man who has 
 been employed for years by the govern- 
 ment, who has himself constructed rail 
 ways, and he tells us that we- are going 
 into an undertaking of 2000 miles 
 which it will cost 114,000,000 to 
 maintain. We were told that 
 the Grand Trunk Ratlt^ay had been 
 a great benefit to the count ly; 
 but that road has not been built by this 
 country but by the earnings of the people 
 of England who have assisted in opening 
 up Ciuaada when she had not the means 
 herself of doing it; but who have never 
 received a dollar in return. The share- 
 holders have given some fifteen or sixteen 
 millions of dollars to develope our re- 
 sources, but they have received no benefit 
 or thanks from us. The present ro.id 
 would be an enormous burthen on us dur- 
 ing its c3nstruction, and would be ever 
 applying to us for additional assistanctf^to 
 keep it running. Why, it would require 
 some 400 locomotives alone — enough to 
 carry oft the whole population of British 
 Columbia. The expense of construction 
 must bo greatly increased compared with 
 the Intercolonial Railway, which runs 
 through a country where there are high 
 roads, water communications— the means 
 of carrying materials and provisions along 
 the route; but none of these facilities ex- 
 is % in the case of the Pacific Railway. Tho 
 toUl cost of tho Intercolonial is put down 
 
■*«l|i!!!|l;ii.piFf i«ipHiJ...l> ,.iJ|lllW!i|!M!MHpt'!TWi'i'^'J!i«'' ' ' 
 
 265 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 266 
 
 at $20,090,000, or perhaps $25,003,000 ra- 
 ther, nnd yet is only ouesixth of the <Ua- 
 tanoe. If you multiply the $;v> 000,000 by 
 Biz you have $150,000,000 as t,MO probable 
 cost of the Pacific. I very much fear— I 
 regret to say it— that our political status 
 will be lotrered by the course whidi the 
 Government arc pursuing in this matter. 
 Wo. bind ourselves to construct a railway 
 'to the Pooitic— the pledge is clear 
 and unequivocal ; but we are told that 
 th^re is a resolution which, instead ot 
 adopting the language of the tre^y.^yn- 
 dertakes to state Che mode i^ which the 
 road shaU be'built. We are, therefore in 
 our legislation placing on record a deol?- 
 . i(Hi which is contrary to the letter of a 
 treaty which the Oovernment of Canada 
 has entered into with the Government of 
 British ColumV)ia. Is that a dignified at- 
 titude for tbiii Parliament to take ? No, 
 we are lowering ourselves in the eyes of 
 the world — acting in a manner derogatory 
 to our honor. In the case of Han Domingo 
 tHe American Senate would not accept tt 
 treaty mad? by the Wasiiington Govern- 
 ment, and the' consequence was that a 
 Commission hjs been sent to the Island to 
 enquire into its condition and the advis- 
 ability of annexation Let us act fairly 
 and honorably with the ,'peeple of British 
 Columbia, let us tell them we must amend 
 these terms, we arc willing to admit them 
 into the union on equitable conditions but 
 not otherwise. I think it is our 
 ' duty as legislu tot's to shew 
 
 by our debates that we are willing to ndoiit 
 the colony on terms f '.ir to both parties, 
 find tef use to lepd ourselves to tne pro- 
 mulgation of a ir(ere delusion. I am sure 
 that the result of this debate will htvo 
 its intlue&co upon public opinion, ivhai. 
 ever may b^ ttie t i^to of thes^:) resolutions 
 We certainly do not expect to see the 
 Government defeated on this question 
 —it would indtod be no defeat so far as 
 this House is concerned. I regret to say 
 that some iiiembt;rs have adopted the 
 view that if. these resolutions are not Car- 
 ried, it would be a vote of want of confi- 
 dence ; but it is a iqistake to suppose any 
 such thing. Before tbjis, I have seen the 
 measures of the Goverhmenl defeated in 
 the Senate, but, slill they have continued 
 in office. One of the reasons given why 
 we can safely deal with this question is the 
 satisfactory condition of oi!ir finances. I 
 am glad uhs is the case,' but is that an ex- 
 cuse ^or now acting recklessly and ex.- 
 travagantly. Many great public improve 
 ments, promised at the inception of the 
 'Union, require to be cairi^d out, and the 
 longer they are delayed^^^e greater the 
 it^justioe to the Ptovinces now forming the 
 Union. For mstance, here is my hon. 
 friend from Nuva Scotia who is such an 
 
 earnest ^advocate for the construction of 
 the Bay Verte Canal ; but can he expect 
 to see that important work undertaken by 
 the Government, if the country hiunohes 
 into the expenditure necessary for the con- 
 struction of, the Paoiiio Railway. , Then 
 there is the improvement of our oan<il 
 system generally— the deepening of the 
 Welland and the St. Lawrence Canals, the 
 improvement of the river navigation. All 
 these are questions of the deepest moment 
 to the commercial interest of the whole 
 Dommion, and it would be very unfortu- 
 nate were they neglected. Then there is 
 another question which is of deep interest 
 to us in I/>W9r Canada —the question of the 
 Arbitration — ^which, according to the un- 
 just award recently made, will place 
 againsl Quebei^ a liability of about $5,000,- 
 000. This liability must be adjusted in 
 some way or other, though it is <{uite cer- 
 tain Quebec will not willingly agree to the 
 exaction. This debt ought to be assumed 
 .by the Federal Government with compen- 
 sation to the Maritime Provinces, but our 
 financial position will be so much affected 
 by that scheme that out federal exchequer 
 will feel unable to meet this case. When 
 we consider the questions of Canals and 
 Arbitration, you cannot expect that the 
 coimtry will be able to incur a liability of 
 $150,000,000 in connection with the Pacific 
 Railway. If we do incur it, then ruin and 
 misery stare us yt the face. Hon. gentle- 
 men may indulge in pleasing visions, but 
 the issue is nevertheless inevitable. I am 
 not against this scheme in Mo, but I am 
 against that portion of it which seems to 
 me inopportune and ruinous. As the Hon. 
 Receiver General is not in his place, I will 
 not attempt to follow him at length He 
 told us of the manner in which he had 
 managed the department of Agriculture 
 when he was at the head of it. lie referr- 
 ed to explorations which he had ordered 
 of the Like 8t. John, and endeavoured to 
 prove that I had been very unfortunate in 
 respect to public roads, and plumed him- 
 self on tite fttct of his success in finding 
 roads. Then he carried ust) tl^e Ijake 
 Temiscouattt road, then to Mount Cenis, 
 where two nations have just shook hands 
 through the mountain range which has 
 long divided th*m, i%nd he has told us of ' 
 the construction of a railway over. the 
 same mountains to. the Simplon, while the 
 t mnel was being consti-uoted beneath : 
 all this to show that we need not be afraid 
 of going into liviah expenses «>nl great 
 enterprises, and to prove that, i^f-such ex- 
 traordinary feats had been achieved, we 
 were able to do as much. Taking his mode 
 of drgul ig ^ could demonstrate that others 
 have atteni.-«d more and hod fiuled, and 
 considering *'aat this hon. gentleman's effi- 
 oiencvhat^ -i (<Onfined to the most pious 
 
266 
 
 truoUon of 
 he expect 
 lerUken by 
 17 launches 
 'or the con- 
 ay. . Then 
 our okBtl 
 [ling of the 
 Canals, the 
 (ation. Ail 
 Mt moment 
 the whole 
 y unfortu- 
 ien there is 
 MP interest 
 stion of the 
 to the un- 
 will place 
 9ut $5,000,- 
 djusted in 
 ijulte cer- 
 gree to the 
 be assumed 
 th oompen- 
 Ms, but our 
 oh aSeoted 
 1 exchequer 
 se. When 
 Canals and 
 st that the 
 liability of 
 1 the PaoiKc 
 n ruin and 
 .on. gentle- 
 visions, but 
 able. I am 
 'o, but I am 
 ih seems to 
 As the Hon. 
 >laoe, I will 
 sngth He 
 ich he had 
 Agriculture 
 Ue reJerr- 
 lad ordered 
 iavoured to 
 fortunate in 
 umed him- 
 in ilnding 
 ) tbe Ijake 
 ount Cents, 
 hook hands 
 which has 
 } told us of ' 
 f over . the 
 >n, while the 
 1 beneath I 
 lot be afraid 
 9 fini great 
 i^fsuoh ex- 
 ihieved, we 
 ng his mode 
 i that others 
 failed, and 
 lemau's effi- 
 I most pious 
 
 261 
 
 British 
 
 [Aprils. 1871.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 208 
 
 duties of the Oovernment of this country, 
 and considermg his peculiarities, I have, 
 when passing through the library this 
 morning, opened a book in which he cer- 
 tainly must have great conQdence — the 
 old Testament— and I may add that the 
 first passage that struck my eye was a 
 strikmg allegory which answers perfectly 
 to his mode of arguing, and wb<oh is as 
 follows: Oenisis xi. Verse 1-9, "And 
 the whole exnh was of one language and 
 was of one speech, and it came 
 to PASS, as they journeyed from 
 the £ast, that they found a plain in the 
 land of of Shinar, and they said, go to, let 
 us build us a city and a town, whose top 
 may reach unto heaven, and let us make 
 us a name, lest we be scattered ab.^cad 
 upon the face of the whole earth. And tUe 
 liOrd came down to see the city and the 
 tower, and scattered them abroad upon 
 the face of all the earth ; and they left 
 of! to build the city : therefore, is the name 
 of it called Babel, because tne Lord did 
 then confound the language of all the 
 earth." 
 
 If this scheme is ooi-ried, it is very pro- 
 bable that the people of this Domiuion will 
 cause the members of the Government to 
 be scattered upon the whole face of the 
 Dominion, but provided the finances of 
 this country are not scattered, there will 
 be no cause for complaint. 
 
 I must thank you, hon. gentlemen, 
 for your kind attention to my. remarks in 
 reply to the hon,. gentlemen who Jiave 
 addressed this House on my' amendment, 
 and I do hope that this discussion will 
 prove that this branch of the legislature is 
 alive to the interests of the country, and 
 that this Senate could not vote silent^ 
 upon this amendment to these resolutions 
 without failing in its duties. 
 
 Before I conclude I will simply say that 
 I hope, whatever may be the result of the 
 division on these resolutions, the House 
 will believe that all who have spoken 
 for or against them have been influ- 
 enced by conscientious and patriotic mo- 
 tives, and that if I have made a mistake in 
 bringing forward my amendment, my error 
 must be considered one of Judgment and 
 notof oblivion to the true interests of my 
 country (cbeei*s) 
 
 The question of conqurrence was then 
 
 fut on the amendment moved by Hon. Mr. 
 ettallier de St; Just, and the House di- 
 V id ad as follows : — 
 
 Contents:— The Hon." Messrs. Cliaflers, 
 Christie, Cormier, Dickson, Glasier, Leo- 
 nard, Letellier de St. Just, McClelan, Mc- 
 Master, Malhiot, Udell. Olivier, Reesor 
 Sanborn, Seymour, Simpson, Steeves 
 Tessier, Wurk, Wilmot, Wilson.— 2!. 
 No.v-CoNTi:\TS.— Aikins, Allan. Archi- 
 
 bald, Armand, Benson, Bill, Bo^ford, 
 Bourinot, Bum ham, Campbell, Chapais, 
 Churchill. Dever, Dickey, DumOuchel, 
 Ferrier, Flint, Foster, Gue/remont, Hamil- 
 ton (Inkerm^in), Hamiltc>n (Kingston), 
 Holmes, Kenny (h?ir Edwurd), McDonald, 
 MoLelan, Macfarlane. MacPherson, Miller, 
 Mitchell, Northup Panet, Perry, Kead, 
 Kenaud, Ryan, Shaw, Skead. Smith.— 39. 
 So it passed in the negative. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SANBORN them moved in 
 amendment, seconded, by the 
 
 Hon. Mn REESOR, that all the words .after 
 ".3 Resolved " be struck out and the fol- 
 lowing inserted, — "While this House de- 
 sires the eai'ly union of British Columbia 
 with the Dominion, and is prepared to 
 adopt&ny plan, consistent with a prudent 
 and fair estimate of the resources of this 
 country, to secure this result, it cannot, 
 with a due regard to our financial ability, 
 concur in the terms set forth in said Ad- 
 dress and Report imposing upon this Gov- 
 ernment the absolute obligation to secure 
 the completion of a railway communica- 
 tion between the Pacitio coast and the 
 railway system of Canada." 
 
 The question of concurrence bo iiig put 
 tbcrjon, the House divided, and th.< names 
 were taken down as follows : — 
 
 CoNTKirrj, — Hon. Messrs. Chaffers, Chris- 
 tie, Cormier, Dickson, Glasier, Leonard, 
 J^etellier de St. Just, McClelan, McMaster, 
 Molhiot, Odell, Olivier, Reesor, Sanln,.;!, 
 Seymour. Simpson, Steeves; Tessier, Wark, 
 Wilmot, Wilsofa 21. 
 
 NoN-CoNTKXTs —Hon. Mesfcfi'. Aiklns, 
 Allan, Archibald, Armand, Benson, Bill, 
 Botsford, Bourinot. ^umham, Campbell, 
 Chapais, Churchill, Dever. Dickey, Du- 
 mouchel. Ferrier, Flint, Foster, Guevre- 
 mont, Hamilton (Inkerman), Hamilton 
 (Kingston), Ilolmea, Kunny (Sir Edward), 
 lAcoste, Macdonald, McLekui, Macfarlane, 
 Macpherson, Miller, Mitchell, Northup, 
 Panet, Perry, Read, Renaud, Ryan, Shaw, 
 Skead, Smith.— 39. 
 
 So it passed in the negative. 
 
 Hon. Mr. SANBORN moved in amend 
 ment, seconded by Hon. Mr. Leonard, 
 That the sa'd Resolutions be amended by 
 inserting before the figure and the word 
 "3. Resolved" the following Resolu- 
 tion : — 
 
 "That the Railv^y ref. rred to in the said 
 Address and approved report of the (yom- 
 mittee of the PrivyCouncil, should be oon- 
 structed and worked by private enterprise, 
 and not by the Dominion Government, 
 and that the public aid to be given to se- 
 cure that undertaking should consist of 
 such liberal grants of land, and such sub- 
 sidy and money, or other aid, not unduly 
 pressing on the industry and resouvces of 
 
^mm. 
 
 "I""!' 
 
 ■ppfiW 
 
 \ 
 
 269 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE ] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 270 
 
 271 
 
 >. 
 
 P^- 
 
 • I 
 
 the Dominion as the Parliament of Canada 
 shall hereafter determine." 
 
 The question of cononrrenco being put 
 thereon the Boose dirided, with the same 
 result.~21 to 39. 
 . So it passed in the negative. 
 
 The questl'jn being put on the main mo- 
 tion, the House divided, and the names 
 were taken down as follows : 
 
 CoNTBNTS. — Hon. Messrs. Aikins, Allan, 
 Arohibald, Armand, Benson, BilL Botsford, 
 Bourinoty Bumham, Campbell, Chapais, 
 Churchill, Dover, Diokey, Duinouchel, 
 Ferrier, Flint, Foster, Guevremont, Hamil- 
 ton* rlnkermnn), Hamilton (Kingston), 
 Holmes, K<>nn7 (Sft Edward), Laposte, 
 McDonald, McLelan, MAofiarlane, Miacpher- 
 son. Miller, Mitcholl, Northup, Panet, 
 Perry, Aead, Ryan, J^baw, Skead, Smith.— 
 38. 
 
 NonContbkm. — Hon. Messrs. Ghafiers, 
 Christie, Cormier, Dickson, Olasier, Leon- 
 ard, Letellierde St. Just, MoGlelan, Mc- 
 Master, Malihiot, Odell, Olivier, Beesor, 
 Sanborn, Seymour, Simpson, Steeves, Tes- 
 ejer, Wark, Wilmot, Wilson.— 21. 
 
 8o it was resolved in the affirmative. 
 
 Hon. Mr CAMPBELL then moved, seo- 
 «nded by the Hon. Mr MITCHELL, That 
 an Address embodymg the said Resolu- 
 tions be presented to Her Mtgesty, and 
 a Select Committee composed of the Hon. 
 ^r iSdward Kenny, and the Hon. Messrs. 
 FUnt, Botsford, Piokey, Armand, and the 
 mover, be appointed to draw up the said 
 Address. 
 
 The motion was carried and the House 
 was ai^oumed during pleasure. 
 
 Af^ some time this House was resum- 
 ed, and 
 
 Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL reported from 
 the Committee the following Address : 
 
 ADURESa 
 
 7\> the Queen't Breellent MetfeHy, 
 
 Most Gbacious Sovrsuon: 
 
 We, Your Matesty'i most dutiful nnd loyal «ub- 
 Jeoui, ikie Senate of Oanada In Purliament im- 
 Bcmbled, humbly npproadh Your Majesty for 
 the purpoM <if reprMonting :— 
 
 That by a Despatch trota the Governor of Brit- 
 iih Columbia, dHtod ^rd January, 1871, with 
 Mher pHpen laid before thin HouHe by message 
 llom llw Bzcellenoy the GoveriHM- General, of 
 the 'i7th Febraury lost, this House loams that the 
 T.egtalatlve Oottnoll of that Colony, In Council as- 
 HemUed, adopted In January laston Addresn rp- 
 presentlug to Your Miv)esty that BrUi»h Oolumhia 
 was prepored to onttr iQto Union with the Dt>- 
 mlnlon of Obnoda, upon the terms and conditions 
 montloned In tue aald Address, wliluli is as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 To the Qtuen'i Mot! Excellent ifvjetty. 
 
 Must QaAOioci SoTKBKioif : 
 
 AVe, Your M^let ty's moat duUAil imd loyal sub- 
 jects, the Members or the LetilBluUve Council 
 of iirUith Ojlumhtn In Council a<seml)led, 
 hmnbly approach Your Majesty lor the purpoto 
 of reproserittnA •— 
 
 That, durlns the last Session of the late Legiit- 
 latlve Couneli, tbeaultfeatorthe admission of tlh> 
 Colony of BrilUh Oolumbta into the Union or Do- 
 minion of Ctmadd was taken Into consideration, 
 ahd A Reaolntfcm on the aul^net was ncre3d to, 
 embodylns the terms upon which it was ivopos- 
 ed that this Colony should enter the Union ; 
 
 That, aflerconstderable diacusslon by the Delo- 
 
 S tes with the Membemof the Oovemment of 
 • Dominion cX Gtmada, tlie Terms and Oondl ■ 
 tlons hereinafter apeoined were adopted by a 
 Committee of the Privy Connoll of Oanada, ard 
 were by them reported to the Qovemor General 
 Ibr his approval : 
 
 Tbat sneh Terms were communioated to the 
 Qovemmentol this Colony by the Governor Gen- 
 eral of Canada, In a Despolch dated July Tth, 
 ISTOb avd «re as follows : 
 
 L Oanada shall be liable for tlie Debts and Ll- 
 abtlltles or BtitUh Ootumbia exlsUug at the tlmo 
 of the Union 
 
 S. British Co!umbla not bwving lacoired debts 
 equal to thoae of the other Provlnres now consti- 
 uiting the Dominion, shall be entitled tn receive 
 by half yearly poyments in advance fhim the 
 General Oovemment, interest at the rote of five 
 per cent per annum on the difference between 
 the actual amount of Its Indebtedneaa atthn 
 date of the Union, and Jthe indebtedness per 
 head of the population of Nova Scotia and New 
 Brunswick, $87.77, the populatioa ol British 
 Colam Ma being taken at wt,OO0. 
 
 3. The following sums shall be paid by Canada 
 to British Columbia for the support of Wt Govern- 
 ment and Legislature, to wit, an Annual Subsidy 
 of SSi,000 and an Annual Grant equal to 80 eent s 
 per head of the said population of 60,000, both 
 half-yearly in advance, such Grant of 80 centM 
 per head to be augmented In proportion to the 
 increase of populatkni, as may be shown by each 
 subsequent decennial census, until the popula- 
 tion amounts to 400,000, at which rate sunn Grant 
 shall thereafter remain. It being understood that 
 the first census bo taken In the year 1881. 
 
 4. The Dominion will provide nn efficient mall 
 service, fortnightly, by steam commnnlcatlon 
 between Victoria and Snn Wranolsoo, and twice 
 n week between Victoria and Olympla; the ves- 
 sels tn he adapted for the conveyance of freight 
 and iNUuengers. 
 
 5. Canada will assume anl defray thv charges 
 for the following services ;— 
 
 A. Salary of the •Lieutenant Governor; 
 
 B. Salaries and Allowances of Uic Judges of 
 the Superior Courts and the County or DIm- 
 trtot Courts; 
 
 C. The charges In respect to the Dcpartmoul 
 of Customs: 
 
 D. The Poatal and Telegraphic Bervloofl. 
 
 E. ProVeotioa and Encouragement of Kisherles ; 
 
 F. Provision for the MlUtIa ; 
 
 O. Lighihouses, Buoys, aiut Deacons, Rhlp- 
 wreeked Crews, Uuarontlne and Marine Hos- 
 pltata, Inciitdlng a Marine Hospital at Victoria v 
 
 H. The Geological Sur>'qy ; 
 
 L The Penitentiary; 
 
 And such inrther charges an may be incident In 
 and conn«>ctcd with the Ncrvloes which Hy/ the 
 BrilUh North Amrriea Act at 1««7 api>ertaln tt> the 
 General Government, and as are or may, be al- 
 lowed to the other Provinces. 
 
 0. Suitable Pensions, such ns nhnll !»> ivp|>mveil 
 of l>y Iler Mnji'tty'ii Goveninioiit, nhnll be pro- 
 vided by the Oovornment of the Dominion for 
 those of Her Majesty's Hervants In the Colony 
 whose pokitlon and emoluments derived there- 
 from would bo afTeeted by polllicnl changes i>ii 
 the odmlHHion of liritiih OWutnMa into tpe Do- 
 minion of Onnada. 
 
 7. It Is agreed that the cxisUng Customs Tarlll 
 and Excise Duties shall continue InJbrce in Brit- 
 i»h OatumMa until the Railway irom the Pacltio 
 Coast and tb« system of Hall ways . In Cbnoda are 
 connected, unless the Legislature of British Co- 
 lumbia should sooner deciae to accept theTorltr 
 and Ezolae LawsofCanada. When Onstnmsantt 
 Esoite DuUes arc, at the. time of the Union oi 
 British Columbia with Canada, levlab!o on any 
 
 K^ 
 
 Vnlm, 
 
270 
 
 the late Leglx- 
 Imlsstonoftlto 
 ITnlon or Do- 
 
 coiMlderatlon, 
 rma ncresd to. 
 
 It wwi piopos- 
 ho Union; 
 onbjrtheBelc- 
 lovernment of 
 msandOondl- 
 
 adopted by a 
 >r Ctmodo, Hr.ii 
 vemor General 
 
 nioated to tho 
 Governor Oen- 
 lated JulyTtti, 
 
 Debt* and Ll- 
 Uig at tbo Uino 
 
 Incurred dobln 
 pea now const I- 
 rltled to receive 
 ranee firom tbo 
 the rale of flve 
 irenee between 
 ]t«dneiM attbn 
 debtednesa per 
 «otia and Mew 
 ion ot BrItUh 
 
 paid by Onnnda 
 rtof It'Govern- 
 Vunual Subsidy 
 qnal to MO eenti* 
 of 80,000, both 
 ant of 80 centH 
 roportlon to the 
 ) shown by each 
 ntll the popula- 
 rate sunn Grant 
 understood that 
 roar 18ttl. 
 in eflflclcnt mall 
 communication 
 olsoo, and twice 
 ympla; theves- 
 •nnc*" of Oreiglit 
 
 firay tho charges 
 
 Governor ; 
 
 >r tho JudjfOH of 
 
 e County or Dl»- 
 
 the Ucpartravut 
 
 lie Sorvloos. 
 icntof Fisheries; 
 
 Beacons, Shlp- 
 nU Marine Hos- 
 >ttal at Victoria; 
 
 \y bo Incident in 
 ?« which »y/th(' 
 7«pi)erlaliittillio 
 iro or niaybeul- 
 
 ihftU Iw ivpprovoil 
 111, tthiiH he pr>i- 
 thc Dominion fdr 
 tB In tho Colony 
 1» derlvod there- 
 Itionl changes on 
 Ma Into t}ie Do- 
 ng Customs Tarin 
 10 Inibrco In Brit- 
 r trom the racltio 
 ys.ln OnwHlanrp 
 are of British Co- 
 accept the Tariff 
 hen Customs and 
 a of the Union oi 
 ,, leviable on any 
 
 271 
 
 British 
 
 [April 5, 18^1.] Columbia. 
 
 272 
 
 Goods, Warex, or Merchandizes In British Colnm*^ 
 bla, or In the other I'rovlnees of the Dominion, 
 tboM Goods, Ware«i, and Merehandlsea may, 
 nom and after the Union, be Imported into Brlt- 
 iah Columbia from the Provinces now oompor^- 
 logthe Dominion, or from cither of tttoaeProv- 
 Inoes Int^ BritUh ColumbU,on proof of pnrmont 
 or tho Uuatoms or Bxoise Dutias leviable toereoR 
 in the Pro^-ince of Kzportatlon, ao4 on payment 
 fif aiich further amount (if any; of CustoaoM Or 
 KjHiao DutlM a* aM tevUbt* thereon In the Pn> 
 vlne% of Importation. Thla amazement to hava 
 no Ibrce or eObet af ^t the Msllmlliltion of the 
 Mf awlExclM Dotlea of BrttlsttOoliUBM* with 
 ttoM oruleDotBUnion. 
 
 ' % BrlUaiiColumbi«>haU ba r^: <ed t«( b*re. 
 pMsaotcdln tba ttanata by Tltrnv . leabera, wd 
 uSlxKembemlBUMflouaeorCoiaaMpa. XIm 
 
 akms of the BrIHrit North Amerha Ael, Vm? 
 
 I, The InOoanoe of tba DomliMon (lovwmmoat 
 W bo iwdloaiMayatho eootlniixl malnta naniae 
 «r«io awnri atatloa at J^ttfttMUt. 
 
 ■l tko ptOTtalaMoC the AMsVMrM idnerteo 
 AM, MP," ahaU (tXMpt tboso pwta Dienror whleb 
 ■mawrma mad*. o» by rooaoooMo tntetuinont 
 BagrlM bold to bo apocUiUr w»UmU« to (lad 
 «a&aflbeton»oB* not tiw wboU oTtlw Frov. 
 iMoa BOW oomprlaliic tiio Dominion, and oxoMt 
 aattf OB tba «me mar bo irorted ngr tlita Mlo- 
 Mlo) he appllMkMe k> BrUiata UolambU in ttio 
 atino wigr andte tlw lllM •ztantaa tiMjr oraiy to 
 
 KotbwPMwiBOW of Um Doaalntoo, and aalf 
 OeioDr or Bi«iaiiGolamMal«ad>b««B onoof 
 •w PforUoaa odgmaUx-nnltod by tho aald Aet. 
 Oi ThoOoMramaotortbo Pomlatoa on d art al f o 
 lire the ooamatuomoM alaiaUaneoiMly, 
 itwojreanftamtlM date of Union, ofthe 
 i oi a Batlwar tntm tbe Paotte to. 
 
 wardatlM Boeky Moantalna.amlfMnfael»patBt 
 mm^t beaeiectedt HaatoT tbe Rotdty Mowitalna, 
 IMnudattio FaeMo, to oonneot the aea-boardor 
 
 Mttah Oobimbia with tba Railwar ■jatem of 
 
 7and fttfther, to aeoura the ooma l ottooot 
 MMiilM#inqr vltiaa ten jreara ftom tbedateof 
 
 1 tba (WvemoMnt of BrtUab Coiuinbia 
 to eon^ay to Me Bpwilnlon Oo«animent,ln 
 
 Ooremn^ent shall be continued by the Dominion 
 'Government after the Union. 
 
 To carry out auch policy, tracts of land of such 
 extent as it has blttaerto been the praoUce of the 
 British Columbia Government to appropriate fbr 
 that purpoaet shall from time to time be con- 
 vayod by the I.ooal Government to the Dominion 
 Government in trust lor th? use and beneflt of 
 Indians on uptiiloattott of the Dominion Govern- 
 ment; umtln oahe ardlaaireemont between the 
 two aovenna*nt« reiipecung the goantiiy of suon 
 tracts of land to bo m> mated, the matter shall 
 
 two aovenna*nt« reiipecung the goantity of suob 
 tracts of land to bo m> mated, the matter shall 
 bereflnred (br tbe^decmmi of the Secretary of 
 SUtetortheCcriOnfcs. ^^ 
 
 14. The ooMtltitttohorthe VxeeuUve Ai^hotlty 
 and of the LMstiAiire ^ fMUab Oolambl« alia>l, 
 sal^ect lo the provlsiona oFtbe "BritUi IToHh 
 dmirlea 4dL vm," eootUme as existia« itt the 
 time of t)-.> Union antU altered nnder the auibor- 
 Itypftne Mfd Act, it tteMr.itt the aanre ttdfte 
 understood that tbe qoTUrnm^nt or tho liomlp- 
 lon will readliy eoosent to thaQnuoducUon of re- 
 sponalbleOeveniiaent wbendwiUe't by the tnha- 
 Ntanu of British Colambli^ Udit being Ul(e wuo 
 understood tliat It is the intehtlOta of the GoVemor 
 ofBrttieb Colnmbia, nnder tbe autborttrottbe 
 . Seeretary of Rtate ibr the CotoiUee, to amend the 
 existing ConMltaUon of the Lematnre by nnv 
 viding that a imajority of its MembefS iSall be 
 eleetlTe. 
 
 nie Union shall take efl^t aocomUna totbe 
 Ibrego U MT terms and condltlooa on each liar aa 
 IMr Mijesiy by and with the advloe oi Rerifost 
 HOboueable Pwvy Council may appolm fon ad- 
 J r eaata tmtfk the Legtalatnre of tbe wtfooy of 
 Brniah ColamMa and of wie H ouaee ofPacIla- 
 ntent ofOaaada In tbe termaorthe Itfih seoUon of 
 tbe AWaki ITvHh Anmlna Aet, UCT), and Brnish 
 Oolumblamay In lia addreaa speolty tbe eleotoral 
 dlatrlota ter #hleh the nnt eleetlon of mettbers 
 to serve In the House of Commons shaU take 
 
 way, a idoiUar ejlent of PubUo 1^4* alOMt tbe 
 ■ne e( RaUwair twontlMot lU entire lei^ in 
 BMtidi OofiunMai noitoexeeed, however, twenty 
 «») mUee on eaeb aide of tbe aaidllne. aa may be 
 
 g^^?sErsrt5nss5^2^» 
 
 S^tmOnu? ynSSa tito uSIuof the V^^^ 
 bntf In BHtUb OolnafiMatobe ao eonreyed V the 
 SoBilalon Govenuneat aban be madegood to the 
 Dominion fIrom oonttgaoua KnbHe Lands; and 
 provided ftirtber, tbatnntU the oommeneement, 
 VttbtatwoyeiK«,aaaibreaald,<tom the date of 
 lb«lf^on,(i'tbeoonetra(!tlongrtbe«ud Railway. 
 U»e Government of BrtUsh Columbia JibaU not 
 Sin or alienate any ttortber portiona of tne PnbUc 
 Landa of Brttlsb OolumMa In any otber way 
 tiJtn nnder right of Prc<«mpUon. requiring ac- 
 «oal realdenoe of the Pre-emptor on the land 
 elalmedbyblm. Inoonalderationofthelandto 
 mrsooonveyedlnaldoftbe oenstruotlon of the 
 aald Railway, the Dominion Government ajpree 
 In pay to British Colombia from tbe date of the 
 Union, the sum of $100,000 pojr annum, in hulf 
 y early payments In advance. 
 
 1& The Dominion Govemmentkhall guarantee 
 tbe Intereet Ibr ten yean fh>m the date uf the 
 eompietlonofttae worics.at tbe rate of Ave per 
 eentum per annum, on such sum, not exceeding 
 XioOLOOO aterlini. as may be required for tho con- 
 atroellon ofaflnt-claas graving dock at Ksqut- 
 
 U. The charge of the Indiana, and the_tnistee- 
 strip and manscement of the lands reserved fbr' 
 Ibeir use aadbeneflt, shall be assumed by the 
 nwntnlon Govemmeut, and a poiiov as liberal as 
 that hitherto pursjed by tbe British ColumbU 
 
 19 
 
 That aneb termf h«To proved generally accept- 
 able to tbe people of this Colony. 
 
 That this Connoil la, tlierelbre, willing to enter 
 Into Union with tbe Dominion of Canada upon 
 aueb terms, and humbly aubgaittbat, under tbe 
 drenmatanoes, it to expedient that the admUalon 
 of ttato Colony into such Union, as albreaaid, 
 ebouldbeeflbeted ataa early adate aainwbe 
 ftmnd piaetleable under the provtsltns oTthe 
 IMtbaeothmof the BHUth Ifarth Ameriet Act, 
 
 vm. 
 
 We, tbereibre, bombly pray tlut Toor Khtest^ 
 will be gracioouy PieaM<l by and with tbe ad- 
 vioe of Tbur MaMltar^ Most Honorable Privy 
 Coonoll, under tbe ProvMona oftbe MOtbaeoUoa 
 of tbe "BrliiA ^orM Aiasriea itel, 1867," to admit 
 British Columbia Into tbe Union or Domlnkn of 
 Canada on the baata of tbe terms and conditions 
 ofltaed lo tills Colony by tlie Government of the 
 Dominion of Canada, herelnbeMre aet Ibrth ; and 
 inasmuch aa by tbe aald terms BrlUab CotnmlMa 
 Is empowered In its Address to apaeUt tbe eleo- 
 teral dlstrlela Ibr which the Bnt eleoti^n ot 
 Membera to serve In the Honse of Commons 
 shall take plaoe, we humbly pray that such 
 electoral distrtcts muf be deelaied, nndor the 
 Order la Oonndl, tobeaelbUowst- 
 Tbat "New Westminster Dtotriet" and "Coast 
 Dtotrtet ' a> deOned in a -nvbUc noUce Issued ftt>m 
 the Lands and Works UiBoe on tho 18th day of 
 December, IM, by the desire of tbe Governor, 
 and purporting to be In accordance with the pro- 
 vtoions of the WUi clause of the " KInerai Oni- 
 nanee, 189," shall constitute ono district, to be 
 designated " New Westminster District" and re- 
 turn one Member. 
 
 That" Cariboo DUtrict" and"LlUooetDlBtrirl" 
 as specified In the sold public notice, shall con- 
 stitute one District, to be designated "Cariboo 
 District," and return One Member. 
 
 That " Tale District," and " Kootenoy Dtotriet," 
 OS specUed in tbe sold pjubllc notiee, shall consti- 
 tute one district, to bo designated " Tale DIs- . 
 trlct," and return One Member. 
 
 That those portions of Vancouver Island known 
 OS" Victoria District," Esquimau District," and 
 
PPPPWWt 
 
 UlUf RvipijPimifT^ 
 
 ^^S^ 
 
 278 ~ 
 
 British 
 
 [SENATE.] 
 
 Columbia. 
 
 274 
 
 275 
 
 "MetclioRin Dt)»triot,''M defined In the oflloUtl 
 mapBorthoneUlttrlctalntht Land Offlee, Vic- 
 toria, nnd which mapa aredeal-aated reMteotWe- 
 \y. " VJotoria DUtrlot Official *^ .>, A.D. ItWt," 
 •• feiaalmait Dlatrlot Offlolal lUp, UNM," and 
 ••MetolKwln- Dlirtrlot Ufflelal Man JCB, UfiB," 
 ■hall eonsUtnt* on« dlitrlet to M deaknated 
 •> Victoria IMatriat," and rataniTwolIamBen. 
 
 And, that all tha remainder oT Van.coovar 
 Iiland.aBd all neh lalanda adjacent thereto aa 
 were iarmerlTdepeadenclet or the lateCoiony 
 orVanooaTerlaludOlatrlctehaUconatMata one 
 Oiatrlct. to be deMnated **Vanooaver laland 
 DUtrlet," and retomXne Member. . 
 
 Ve Autber hombLr rapreeank that the iwiwo** 
 ed terma and coiuittloiia or union ct Brttiah 
 ftouunblft with Cat »la, aa attted In the aaid AA- 
 dreea, are In eontorintty with thoae pnllmlnart- 
 ly agreadniioo between delemtet tram Brltlah 
 Colwinwh Mid the Membeia dr the Oorenunent 
 oftbeOomulon of Canada, and embodied Ina 
 Kepiwt of a Committee of the PrlTy Ooan<iU, a|>> 
 rawred by Hla Bmellenur the Ooremar General 
 Ri OoonalrOn the lat July, vsn, whleh apixovad 
 Report la aa ft>Uar>(r8 :— 
 
 m« JV<iv OauneU, apprmed by Hit SaotUemtu 
 tht Oomrnor Oeneral in Oaime U , on the Ut 
 July, ign>. 
 The C<immltt«e of the Privy Council have had 
 under contideratlon a Deapatcb. dated Tth May, 
 Ib70, fkoih the Oovemor of Brlttoh Colambi*, to- 
 tether with certain resotoUona aubmlttad by the 
 Government of that colony to th°e IjeaialatiTe 
 ekmndl thereot— both herennto annexed— on the 
 ■ntdect of the propoeed nnlon of Urltlah Cn<ambla 
 with the Dominion of Canada; and afto. eevoral 
 InterviowK between tb>m and the Honorable 
 Mewm. Tmteli, HelmO :en, and Carrall, the De- 
 legates ftx>m BrltiKh Ujinmbia and tuli dUeus- 
 •Um with them of the /arlouaqnoations connectr 
 ed with that Important RubleeC, the Committee 
 now retiioctftiUy submit for your Excellency^ 
 npprovarUteftillowinK terms and condlttonBto 
 form tbc baalaof a political union between Brlt- 
 tlKh Columbia and the Dominion of Canada. 
 
 I. Canada aball be liable for the debts and II ■ 
 abiliUee of BrftlBb Columbia cxlMUncat the time 
 of the Union 
 
 SL Brltlah Colambia not haTlnx lucnrred debts 
 equal to those of the oUier Provinces now oonatl- 
 inlnc the Domlnlcm, shall be entitle i to receive 
 by half yearly payments, In advance, ftom the 
 General Govamment, Interest at the rate of five 
 
 Keont. par annnm, on the diflbrence between 
 aetoal amoont of lu Indebtedness at the 
 data at the Union, and the Indebtedneaa per 
 head of tha popolatkm of Nova BeoUa and Iiew 
 Bnmswlek, fir.Tt the popolatloa of BritUb 
 Oolombta betnc taken at<D,00O. 
 
 <. The followlna omns shall be paid by Canada 
 to British Columblailbr thesnpportof ila Govern- 
 ment and Legislatare. to wit an annual subsidy 
 orM5.oao and ainjmnual grant canal to 80 cents 
 perbead' of the said population oT 60,000, both 
 half-yearly In advaree, such grant of 80 cents per 
 head to be angmented In proportion to theln- 
 ereaae of population, as may be shown by each 
 RubHcquent decennial census, until the population 
 •mouuu to lOO.UOO at which rate such grant tball 
 tbereaf ter remain, it being undoratDoo that the 
 Brst census shall be taken in the year 1881. 
 
 The Dominion will provide an efficient mall 
 ■ervloe fortnightly by steam communication 
 between Victoria and Son Francisco, and twice 
 a wook between Victoria and Olympla, the ves- 
 sels to t>e adapted ibr the oonvpyance of freight 
 and iivsenger*. 
 
 t. Canada will aisumo and defray tlie charges 
 for the (bllowtng sorviccA ,— 
 
 A'. Itelary of the Lieutenant Uovernnr, 
 
 U. Salarie»anrt allowanoes of the Juilgesof 
 
 t^eStiperiorCourtH and Uie Cixiiity or Dlr- 
 
 triet (Courts. 
 C. The)ebargas in respect to the Department 
 
 of Customs. 
 . D. The postui and telegraphic s<>rv!p«!!. 
 B. Protectloii and •nronragemetit of flfh- 
 
 erle#. 
 
 F. Provision for MlliUa. 
 
 0. Lighthouses, buoys and boaoonif, Hhip- 
 wrecked crews, qnarinUne and marine hos- 
 pllAls, Including a marme hospltai at Vie- 
 
 H. Tha Oeologleal Survey. 
 
 1. Tha Penitentiary. — 
 
 And such Mrtbar charges as may be Incident to 
 and connected with the services which by tha 
 British Korth America Act of 1867, appertain to 
 the General Government, and as are or may be 
 allowed to the other Prov'aieea. 
 
 •. SultaUa pensions, such aa shall be approved 
 ofbyHerMijMty'sGtfveramenttShaUbepnivld- 
 ed br the Government of the Dbmlnton Ibr thosa 
 of Her Ma|estj<h servants In ttta colony whose 
 posliloii and emolumenta derived thereltam 
 woold be aflbeted by poUUeal dutugea on tha ad- 
 mission oTBritlsb OolnmbU Into tna Dominion 
 of Canada. 
 
 7. It la agreed that the axlstlttgenatoma tariff 
 and exelaa duties, shall eontlnnelnlbroeln Brit- 
 ish Columbia until the railway from the Pacllle 
 eoast and the system ofrallways In Canada arc 
 eonnected, unless the Leylalataro of Btltish 
 Colnmbla sbontd sooner decide to aoeept the 
 tarlffandexeisalawsof Canada. Wbencustoms 
 and excise duties are, at the time of the imlon of 
 British Columbia with Canada, leviable on any 
 goods, warea or merchandises in British Oolnm-' 
 bla or In the other Provinces of the Dominton 
 these goods, wares and merchandises may, 
 from and after the Union be Imported into Brit- 
 ish Columbia trun the ^rovinMs now compoa- 
 Ing the Dommion, or- from either at those Pro- 
 vinces Into British Cnlum blazon proofof payment 
 of tv " customs or excise duties leviable thereon, 
 in the Province of exportation, and on payment 
 of such fbrther amount, if any, of customs or ex> 
 else duties as are leviable thereon in the Pro. 
 vlnee of importation. Thisarrangementtuiiave 
 no Ibree or eflbct alter the Mslmilation of tha 
 tariff and excise duties of Erfitish Ct^umbla wttli 
 those of the Dominion. 
 
 8. British Colonibia shall be entitled to be re- 
 presented In the Senate by three membcra and^ 
 by six members In the House of Common*. Th<> 
 representation to be Increased under the nr^vis- 
 ions of the British North Amerlea Act, 1887. 
 
 •. The influence of the Pominion Oovemnsent 
 wilt be used to seourotheoontloued maintenance 
 of the Maval Station at JBwiuimalt. 
 
 10. The proviskms of the British North Ameri- 
 ca Act, mi, shaU (axeept thoae parU thereof 
 which are in terms made, or by reasonable In- 
 tendment may be held to be specially applicable 
 tn, and only aikct one and not tha wholo of the 
 Provineea eomprlBing the Dominion, a&d except 
 so fbr as the same may be varied by this minuteii 
 be applicable to Brltlah Columbia !:■ the samowigr 
 and to the like extent aa they apply to the other 
 Provinces at ttie Dominion, rmd oa if the Colony 
 of BriUsb Columbia had been oni) of the Provin- 
 eea originally united by the taid Aeu 
 
 11. The Government of the Dominion under- 
 take to secure the commencement, simnl- 
 taneoiuly, within two years from the date of the 
 union, of the oonstrnetion of a railway from the 
 Pacific towards the Rocky Mountains, and from 
 such point as may be selected East of the Rocky 
 Mountains towards the PuClflc, to connect the 
 seaboard ol British Cohimbia with the railway 
 system of Canada: and, ftirthor to (tenure the 
 completion of such railway within ten years 
 from the date of the Union. 
 
 And UieGovornmentof British (.Columbia agree 
 to convey to the Dominion Government In trust 
 to be appropriated in such manner as the Do- 
 minion Government may deem advisable In 
 fyrtheraneeofthe construction of the said rail- 
 way, a simihir extent -of public lands along the 
 line of railway thrmighbat its entire length in 
 Brltfaih Columbia, not to exceed, however^ twenty 
 {'JO) on each side ol the said line, as may be ap- 
 )>roprialed ft>r the Same purpose by the Dominion 
 (lovernment flrum the nubile lands In tlie North 
 West Tnrrttorlos and tne Province of Manitoba. 
 Provldott that the quantity of land which may be 
 btU uuder pre-oniptinn rijht »>r by Crown grant 
 
■^^^ 
 
 274 
 
 aooni', Hhii>- 
 marine h<w- 
 >IUI at Vic 
 
 Ineldcatto 
 rbloh by Ui« 
 •pperUlnto 
 re or may be 
 
 be approved 
 ■Ubeprorld- 
 lon Ibr Umim 
 nhmxirhoM 
 I ttaeranom 
 Ml on the ad* 
 w Domlnloo 
 
 aatooia tariff 
 ftiroetii Brtt" 
 a the PaeUIe 
 lOanadaarv 
 of BtlUth 
 > aoeept tiM 
 beneoatoma 
 
 tbe union oT 
 able on maj 
 ttlah Oolain. 
 le Dominion 
 idliea majr, 
 led Into Brit- 
 low oompoa- 
 orthoaePro- 
 >f or payment 
 Me thereon, 
 
 on payment 
 lutomaorez- 
 1 In tho Prow 
 menttohave 
 Btlon or the 
 
 iumbia wttii 
 
 ledto b« r»- 
 lembcn nn«f' 
 fmmonf. Th(> 
 ir the prjvta- 
 let,UeT. 
 
 Oovemnaent 
 matnteiianoe 
 
 276 
 
 British 
 
 [Aprils, 1&71.] Columbia. 
 
 27<S 
 
 within Uiellmitaortlie tract oriand in Britiah 
 Oolnmbia to be no conveyed to the Dominion 
 GoTemment, shall be made good to the Domin> 
 ton rmm auiUttMua landa, and provided ftirtlier, 
 that ontil the oommenftment. within two yearn 
 aa oforaaald ftom the oate or the Union, of the 
 eonatruction of the aakl railway, the Uovanunent 
 of BrItUh Columbia shall not ■ell or alienate any 
 ftirtber partkm of the pablle landa of British Co- 
 Inmbl* m any other way than under right of pre- 
 empoon, requlrinc actual resloenoe of the pre- 
 emptor on the land claimed by him. In consld> 
 eratlon of the land to be so conveyed In aid of the 
 eonatnictlon of the aaM railway, the Dominion 
 Oovemmentairee to pay to BrlUab Cdnmbta, 
 ftom the date ofttae union, the sum of tKO^OOQ 
 per annum, la haU-yoariy puymenta in advance. 
 
 IfL The Dominion Uovemment shall guarantee 
 tte Interest Ibr ten ymn fiom the date of the 
 completion of the worka m the rate ef live per 
 eeotom per annnm on such snm, not ezceedinc 
 jgMmOOO sterUng, aa may be required text the oon- 
 •Imetton of a flrsuclaas graving dock at Eaqui- 
 malt. 
 
 is. The charge ofttao Indians and the trustee- 
 ahip and management of the Innds reserved Ibr 
 their use and benedt, shall be assumed by the 
 IdomlnkknaoTemment-andapolloy as liberal as 
 that hitherto pursued by the British Columbia 
 €k>vemment, shall be continued by the Dominion 
 Government after the Union. To carry outsuob 
 policy, tracts of land of such extent as it has 
 hitherto beep the practice of the British Columbia 
 Oovernment to appropriate for that purpose, 
 ■hall from time to time be conveyed by the fjocal 
 Qovemment to the Dominion Oovemment In 
 trust Ibr the use and beneOt of Uio Indians, on 
 appiicution of the Dominion Uovemment, and 
 In onseofdlMuroement between the two Oovern- 
 mpntM reapecUng the nuantity of such traotx of 
 laad to be Ml gnintod, the mutter shftU be referred 
 Ibr the declsiunof thoBvertttiiry of State Ibr the 
 Colontesi. 
 
 14. The onnvtitiition of the Kxecutivo authority 
 ondof ilie I^'KiKlutureof Brltiuli Columbia kIiuII, 
 
 sttbiect to the provisions of the British North 
 America Act, 18(17, continue as existing at the 
 time of the Union until altered under the author- 
 ity of said Act, It being at the same timo under- 
 stood that the Qovoimment of the Dominion will 
 readily consent to the Introduction of responsible 
 government when desired by the inhabitants of 
 British Columbia, and It being likewise under- 
 stood that It Is the intention of the Ooverhor or 
 British Columbia, under the antixnlty of the 
 Secretary of State ibr the Colonies, to amend the 
 existing constitution of the Legtslalore by provid- 
 ing Uiat a' mtOortty of lt< members shall be eleo- 
 Uve. 
 
 The Union shall take eflbct, aooordlng to the 
 Ibregaing terms and conditions, on snch day as 
 Her Malesty, by and with the advice of Her 
 Most Honourable Privy Coundl may appoint (<»> 
 addresaes f)rr-"* '■'« Ijcglalature of the Colony of 
 British Colv , and of the Honsea ofthe ParUa- 
 ment of Caii(^.!Min tho terms ofthe IMth section 
 ofthe BrHlsh Xorth America Act, UM7), and Brit- 
 ish Columbia may in Its address specio' the elec- 
 toral districts Ibr which tho first election of mem- 
 ber* to serve tn the HoiiHeof Commons Hhall take 
 place. 
 
 (Certiaoil,) WM. H. LEE, 
 
 Clerk Privy Council. 
 
 We further humbly represent that we concur In 
 tlie termsaml <!r>nditlons of Union setfurth In the 
 said AddresH, and noproved Reportof the Commit- 
 tee of the Privy Council above mentioned ; and 
 most respcctriilly pray that Your Malesty will be 
 Kfaciously plaosetl, by and with the advice of Your 
 Sl^jesty's Mo8t Honourable Privy Council, under 
 the IMUi clause of '-The BritlHi North America 
 Act, 1807," to unite British Columbia with the 
 Dominion of Cunaclit, on the terms and condltlonH 
 above set forth. 
 
 The House then took up the Orders 
 of the Day, and having gone through 
 them, adjourned. 
 
 ifortb Ameri- 
 parts thereof 
 eaaonable In- 
 illy applicable 
 whole of the 
 0, and except 
 y Vols minute ji 
 ithesamcwiiy 
 lytotheoUier 
 \ If the Colony 
 if the Provin- 
 
 alnlon under- 
 ment, slmul- 
 ihe date ofthe 
 Iway n<om the 
 dns. and ttom 
 t of the Rocky 
 t connect the 
 li tho railway 
 to secure the 
 liln ten years 
 
 oluntbia agree 
 ment In trust 
 er as the Do- 
 advisable In 
 Ute said rall- 
 uids along the 
 tire length In 
 wever* twenty 
 H may be ap- 
 the Dominion 
 ; in Uie North 
 » of Manitoba, 
 which maybe 
 f Crown grant 
 
 r n 
 
 >v