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The first Session of an Enquiry instituted by the Shipping Interest the Marine Underwriters into the needs of the St. Lawrence route from •20 Montreal to the sea was held this day at 10 o'clock A. M. at the Board of Trade. Present : John Torrance, Chairman ; D. W. Campbell ; W I. Gear ; Thos. Harling ; James Thom and D. A. Watt of the Shipping Interest. E.L. Bond.Prosidc-nt Marine Underwriters" Association and Captain Keid, Port Waiden, vUo attended as a nautical expert by r.quest. Also the several Ship Masters whose opinions are here given. The Chairman explained that the object of the Enquiry was to pro- cure the opinions of Ship Masters as to the really importan'- needs of the St. Lawrence navigation in order to press the matter upoa the attention •^'^^ of the Dominion Government with a view to its makin;.; the necessary improvements to secure reduced Murine Insurance rates in the S.Lawrence which, as he pointed out, were so excessire. The iirst Captain examined answered as follows in reply to questions by the Chairmp.n. His nam i was William Goldworthy. He was in command of the "Manchester Shipper". His last voyai^e was from Manchester to < preferred the North route unquestion ibly.because there is less ice, the fog belt is narrower, and weather much better. Considered fog signals necessary at Fame Point and at Matane Along the seventy miles of coast between Cape Chatte and Father Point it is difficult to allow properly for the currents without the aid of fog signals at different points. There should be a fog signal at Flower Cove, Nlld. , placed near the light to guide in- to the Straits. There are log signals on the North side, but not on the South. Did not consider the St Lawrence route worse than other, but that it required more care in navigating as there was more fog ; said tie prefer- red syrens as fog signals because the sound penetrates better ; there were C't noi«es about the ship, such as doors slamming, which might be mistaken for a bomb But there should be some syrens and sorat^ bombs. There should be a light and a fog signal about halfway between Heath Point and Point d'Amour, at a plaice called "Little Macitina " or St. Mary's Island. A light and a fog signal at the North- East of Bi'Ue Isle is very much wanted The Cape Kace route he considered propi'rly lighted. Favored a continuous hydrographic survey of the Gulf and adjoining coasts as an imi)ortant aid to navigation He thought there ought to be a fog signal at Cape Pine where the light is. On general principl there should be a f >g signal wherever there is a ^0 light. Asked about navigation from Father Point to Quebec he said that 'm — ;{ — 10 nhould bo a qu»>8tion more for the pilots than th« Masters .The light on Fame i'oiiit should be n-pliiced by a more difstiiict li>iht, because it is the most important iii?ht on that ooast it fshouid bo changed for a modern quick flashing light with a tog signal attached. (All tht; Captains present agreed that the present licrhc was poor, and that a quick flashing light should be provided at Fame Point). Mr. Bond stated that the principle the Underwriters strugifled for was that wherever there was a f )g signal there should be a light, and that all old lights should be changed to flashing ones There certainly should h^t a fog signal at Cape Pine. The meeting agrtfed that a logjsigual at Cape Pine was an imme- diate necessity. Mr. Bond said that although no vessel had been wrecked at the en- trance of the Straits of B-Ue Isle, the Underwriters had the impression that there should be another light there. Captain Wra. Webb of the S. S. "Kastalia", questioned, said that he was about eight years in command. That he sailed from Glasgow last vo- yage, and came in by the South route He preferred the South channel coming out and the Belle Is'.e route going home - for the bsnefit of the "^ soundings coming South. lie has had most fog on the Belle Isle route. Last year he had trouble with ice about July but this year there was very little. Asked if he considered the St. Lawrence route more dangerous than any other route, he replied that he considered it was, as there was more fog and ire, and it lequired more care to navigate it. but with care there should be rot much danger. Asked what he thought was wanted to im- prove the navigation of the route. Captain Webb replied: — a light on the North-East corner of Belle Isle with a fog signal there also.as well as every- where w here there there is a light. He did not believe in fixed lights. There should be a light at St. Mary's Island and the fog horn at Point d'Amour was not loud enough. Asked if it was customary to check the revolutions of the flashing lights he replied that ho generally did check them. If they were wrong it depended on the humour he was in whether or not he would report it, but he thought it shimid be done. Asked if ho considered there should be gas buoys above Quebec to make the river navigable by night, he answered that it should be left as it is, daylight was the best time for navigating the St. Lawrence. The old fixed lights were bad as they were hard to distinguish from lights on the land — the trouble Was generally Irom Fame Point up and he would like that all fixed lights should be done away with on that reach. 30 — 4 — Captain Frank Carey of tbe S. S. "Lake Ontario" said that he had been in command about twelve years, but had buen coining to the St. Lawrence for twi'Uty-live years. He had sailed from Liverpool last voy- age" and came in via the Straits of Belle Isle. He had six or seven hours of fog and had only met two small pieces of ice. He preferred the IJe lie * "oufe because there was not so much log and the we belt was nar- ilthough there was more ice. The Belle Isle route is a little the sho. er A light on the end of Belle Isle was very much wanted. A re- survey of the soundings should be made as the charts are confusing 10 around Belle Isle. There should be a fog signal with the light on the Nort Kast end of the Island of Belle Is'e. He was strongly in favor of fog signal at flower ledge. Point d'Arnour whistle not loud enough, Cape Norman not very good either, Cape Bauld very good, also Greenly. Bombs not powerful enough there should be another light and fog .'^ignal above Heath Point on the South point of Anticosti or South Cape would like all lights made revolving. Fame Point light hard to make out (Capt. Webb said here that there was a wrong survey at South Point near Blagett's Bluff). Capt. Carey coi'itinuing said, that there should be a buoy outside the shoal at South Point. The fog signals at Father Point were not the 20 best but the soundings were good. Bomb at Father Point no use. He considered all the bombs in use not powerful enough. The fog signals and syrens were better than on thelinsilish coast, but the bomlis were not half as good. Green Island signal useless, not strong enough, syren wanted. New lighthouse at Travers Island farther from channel than the old lightship, but it was better light. Asked about the buoys between Montreal and Qnebec, he replied that question he considered should be left Ito the pilots, but that he thought they were very goid. About the Cape Race route he had to say that the soundings were not quite accu.jte. Never went near St Pierre Miquelon. He did not con- iH) sider a fog signal necessary at Cape Pine. Matane light should be impro- ved ; also Metis light and light at Cape Magdalen. Asked if he ever ca- me from Rimouski to Quebec withoutja pilot he replied'that he had once; that there was not much difficulty only it was very inconvenient He con- sidered the pilots below Quebec very good men. His experience of the pilots was that they were all right, and the Captains present all agreed with him. Asked how they compared with the Liverpool and other En- glish pilots he replied that they were just as good and as intelligent. They never came oi. board under the influence of liquor and were quite equal to the Glasgow men. Never found a man colour blind In ans- _j,j wer to u question by Mr. Bond he said that the distance between Mon- — 5 I •20 treal and BhUc Isle was about 900 miles and that it generally takes three days to m.'ke it. It took about one hour to got to sea from Boston. Asked if we got all the improvements would there be as little danger getting to sea as from Boston Capt. Carey said no. All the other Captains agreed in this opinion that there would be more danger. Asked when they considert^d they were at si'a the Captains said " not till they were out of sight ol land''. Asked if it were more dangerous going from Fat- her Point to the sea than from the first point of land on the other side to Liverpool, Captain Carey thought not ; he considered the North of Ireland ^^ njore dangerous than going from Father Point to the sea, although there was more fog in the St. Lawrence. Captain Thos. Jones ot the S S. ' Cambroman" stated that he was one year in command That he was coming to this port five and a hall years. He had left Liverpool last voyage and came in by the south rou- te. He had had a great deal of fog from Cape Race in all about fifty hours. He had made five voyages this year, name south every time, and had met fog every voyage but one, Came by soundings and found them very goon. Light and fog signal at Cape llace very good. Should be a fog- signal at Cape Pine. Wherever a light is wanted a fog signal is also wanted The most particular point coming into the St. Lawrence is Fame Point, and there is no signal there ; should be a flashing light. About the ot- her points there should be a fog signal at each Father Point should be altered to a syren, which would be more effective. Birds Rock signal to long intervals, it is now twenty minutes, should bj as often as possible, Channel from Father Point to Quebec should be lefi to the pilots. Mr Bond asked if Captains ever gave over their responsibility to the pilot, answered never. Captain Richard Griffith. Assistant shore Capi-iiu for the Allan Line, was next examined, and stated that he was in command up to last vear He preferred the Belle Islt; route because he had had always less fog there, the ice track was shorter. Fogs were of shorter duration on the Belle Isle route Always more fog going south. Fog not denser north than south. Should be a light at the northeast end of Belle Isle, also a good fog signal there. There should be a fog signal at Flower ledge. A fog siunal should be everywhere where there is a light. Light at St. Mary's Island lu'edtd to pick ships up. Light on east Cape Nothing more needed along there exept a buoy or two to denote the shoal opposite South Point. Fame Point light should be renewed and fog signal also.There should ^ be a fog horn or signal at every light up to F'ather Point. His experience 1 , A J ~ G — ttlso was that the bombs were too small, between Father Point and Quebec Aery good. Pilots below Quebec al! right. Stated again that he preferred the north route. There should be a fog signal at cape Pine and St. Mary's also, on the principle that wherever there is a light there should be a fog signal, LMrd Rock signal too long interval, should be a syren. Asked if a survey of the currents would be of use to him he sai^. "yes". The meeting- then adjourned till next Tuesday, October 9th. at 10.80 A M It I certify that the above notes of the evidence in my opinion cover the important acts brought out at the above meeting. JOHN TORRANCE, * Chairman 20 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN COLE, OF THE S. S."BEGAMA". 30 Montreal, October 9th lltOO. Captain Cole, of the S. S. " Begama ". Q — Where did you sail from, Captain ? A.— From Bristol. Q.— And what route did you take ? , A.— Belle Isle. Q.— Why did you take Belle Isle ? A. — I thought it was the clearest road to come at this time. Q. — Then you prefer Belle Isle to the soutbern route ? A.— Yes, at this time of the year. Q.— Have you any suggestions to make with referencf to Belle Isle ? A.— I think if there was a light on the north-est and of it, it would be a great improvement. I got very close in there, and could not see the other light and was bothering about in a fog for a long while, and a fog signal I would suggest, with this light. . Q. — Did you meet niue-h fog coming in this time ? A.— Very little ; two or three hours fog between Cape Norman and 49 Heath Point. s rr -, 7 — ' Q.— Have you to suggest auythiug in the way of lights or tog signals between Point d'Amour and Heath Point ? A.— Yes, I think a lierht on the western shore would i\ great impro- yemcnt. Q— What part ? A.— The Labrador coast, somewhere around St Mary's Island, which 1 think would be a great improvement. Q — How does Heath Point stand ? A.— Heath Point is all right enough for the light, but I do not think 1 ; the fog signal there is worth anything at all, because I felt my way around Heath Point the other day. I was going dead slow around it for three hours, and the fog lifted for two minutes and I saw the lighthouse, and I must have been within three miles of that light for three hours.but I never heard a fog signal. It is either utterly useless, or else they were not working it, which. I do not know. Q.— Alter you got around Heath Point, what point do you make for? A.-Bagot's Bluff. Q.— There is a lighthouse there ? A.— Yes, from there I go over to Graspe and Fame Point. The lights 20 along there are pretty right but there is no fog signal along there. Q.— Is if not a very important point at Fame Point for a fog signal ? A. -Yes, very important, and it sould have one Cape Norman fog eij^nal I do not think is worth anything, and that is in Belle Isle 0.— How far off were you ? A. —Two miles. Q. —You think there should be a fog signal of the most approved pattern and shape at Fame Point ? A.— Yes. Q.— How is the coast line lighted, from there to Father Point ? A.— Fairly well. Q,— What about fog signals ? A. — I think every lighthouse should have a good fog signal, so as to pick them up. Q — Cape Chate for instance ? A.— There is a good one there; we can hear that occasionally. Q.— There is a cotton powder ball fired every twenty minutes - did you ever hear it .? A. — No. the interval is far too long. Q. — You passed Matane and Little Metis ? A. — No fog signals there, and I think there should be a fog signal at Little Metis, if not one at Matane also. 80 4u i . / — 8 — Q — What abont Father Point ? A— There is a good lig-' t there, tliore is no fog signal to my kn jw- l»(lge. From my experience with their guns and boiubs they might jt.st as well not fire them, bp«muse we never hear them. Q.-Have you anything riore to say beyond Father Point ? A. — I think not. Q — In your opinion. Captain, which is the best fog signal to use ? A. — The syrene. or whistle. Q.— You have been trading in other parts of the world ? ]0 A.— Yes. Q. — Do you consider the St Lawrence vporse thero any other route you have been in ? A —I think it is abont the mosi difficult navigation in the world Coming Irom England, about the hardef t time I put in ij coming here. Q. — Are there any greater difioultiesin the navigation of the St Law- rence than the North Sea or English or Irish channels ? A.— Yes, yon have so many currents and fogs. Q — Have'ut you got a number of currenta in t'le English channel ? A — No, they have them sortc-d 'out, and yor. know how they are Q/j going to set you, but here [ do not think thi>re is a person can say which Way the current will set you. Q -- What is really wantei in the Lower St Lawrence for the better navigation of it ? A. — More fog sig.jals aud another fight or two. Q — Don't you tliink t'lere are enough lights from Fame Point up ? A. — Y»'S, but J rincipdliy fog signals are wanted. Q.— HoviT Ion'/ have you been in the trade, Captain ? A. — This is vny first season here.. Q. — What trade have you principally engaged in before ? A — Southern trades, geneally. Q— Have you come around by Cape Race ? . A — Yes, I have twice. Q — What 18 your opinien of the relative routes V A — I do not know, as I have not had eiiough experience, but they are both pretty hard runs. t.^ With regard to the pilotage waters from Father Point iip to Que- bec, liave you any remarks or suggestions to make V A -No. Q— • And from Quebec to Montreal have you anything to suggest iu regard to that ? \ • \ \ \ \ 1 ■ .■ . r — 9 — A. -No. Q— That is a very fiue light on the Travers ? A. -Yes. Q_I would like to know if yoa have navigated to either Baltimore or Philadelphia ? A.— I have bev^u in Baltimore once, but it is years and years iigo Q,— In regard to the aids to navigation in the Gulf of St Lawrence, I would like to know your opinion, if you had proper hydrographic snr- veys, the same as al Washington, would it help you ? 10 A— I think ii would be a most usi'ful thing. Q— Is it not yonr opinion thit such a survey properly cunducted by the Government would very materially aid in the navigation of the St Lawrence and reduce losses ? A.— Certainly it would. Q— What do you find the nature of the lights in the St Lawrence i Are they first class ? A.— 1 think the lights are good enough, but some of them might be strongt'r. Q.— I believe it has been stated that there were no lights in the St •20 Lawrence better than third class 1 ' A.— That I could not say ; I have had very clear weather coming up, and no difficulty with thtm, and I am judging them under most favourable circumstances. Q— 1 judge from your first remarks that you believe in the straits of Belle Isle at this season of the year ? A. -Yes. Q.— Why ? A.— I ihiuk you get .''.earer weather at this time than further south. Q. — Don't you expect snow at this time of the year ? jjQ A. — 1 suppose we shall get it pretty soon now ; I am going back that way, but 1 should think we will get a clearer run going through Belle Isle now than going south. Q — About those puns or bombs, you can only hear them two miles, you say. How far do you hear them in the British channel ? A —I do not think we have any there— yes, there is a gun at Lnudy which you can hear two or three miles, but I have not heard a gun com- ing up the gulf at all. I do not know whether a gun low down when being fired, you can hear further than a bomb over your head, but the twenty minutes interval bitween the sounds of the fog signals I flunk is 4U perfe) 4U Q — You have come in, of course, by Cape Race and Belle Isle ? A. — Yep, both. Q— In approaching the St Lawrence by the Cape Race route, have you any suggestions to make for the improvement of same ? A —Not towards Cape Race as I think it is all right there; Cape Tine has a fixed white light, but there seems to be no fog signal there, but there is a fog signal at Cape Race. Q._Uo you think it desirable that there should be one at Cape PineV A.— No, nor Cape St Mary. Q.— Would it noi be a help ? A.— It would be an improvement, but not necessary. Q.~A numbiT of ships have been stranded there ? A.— Well, they did not use the light. Q —You think it would be an advantage ? . A. -Yes. Q._Why do you me Belle Isle in the summer time ? A. — It is the shortest route. Q. — Has it any other advantages ? A. -No. Q. — Do you get clearer weather there ? A.— You have io take your ohiiuces ; my experience is that I would just as soon go around Cape Race as Belle Isle is a doubtful route, Q - Do you think it any more dangerous than Cape Race ? A.— Yes'. Q —You have i)lenty of soundings by Cape Race ? A.— Yes, but not reliable Foundings by Belle Isle. Q.— In coming by Belle Isle, do you think it would be desirable to have a lighthouse and fog signals ? A.— Yes, a lighthouse and a fog signal principally. The fog signal is absolutely necessary. Q.— You have had a large cxporience, will you tell ua why it is neces- sary to have a fog signal ? A.— In thick weather, if you come into Belle Isle you would hear the gun. Q.— Would you want to have it a gun ? A —Yes. Q — Is it not a fact when the wind is blowing in certain directions you would not hear the gun ? A. — The same as with the whistle. Q.— After you came into Belle Isle, have you any suggestions to make as to the improvement of the straits ? — 12 — A.— A stronger fo«? signal at Cape Norman is wanted, as the whistle there is very light, and you can hardly hear it, that is, on the Newfound- land side. Q.— In proceeding through the straits, have you anything to recom- mend there ? A. — No, the lights are all right. Q.— At the western end of the straits, are they all right there ? A. — Yes, the fog signals are quite correct there. Q —What about Flower Island, is there a fog signal there ? 10 A. — No, but we have a fog signal over at Point d'Amour. and one at Green Island. Q --What is the distance between those points ? A. — Twelve miles. Q— You think if there was one ou Flower Island there might be a little confusion ? A.— Yes. Q._^ell then, you think the western entrance to the straits is all right ? A.— Yes. 20 Q- — After you get out of the straits, proceeding to Heath Point, have you any suggestions to make ? A. — A lightship off Heath Point anchored in twenty fathoms is abso- lutely necessary, so 'hat you can go around there in thick weather with good fog signals. Q. — There is really no trouble in getting around Heath Point in thick weather ? A.— Yes, the soundings are all right, but people are afraid to go too close. Q —What about St Mary's island ? .,j A. — There is no light or fog signal there ; if you get a good departu- re fro.m the entrance to the straits, you do not require any until you get to Heath Point. Q. — If you don't get a good departure ? A. — You should not start Q. — What is your idea about the surveying and charting of the route? A. — It could be improved ou. Q. — Do yen think it necessary t A — I really do not think it. Q — Do you think so in connection with the currents ? A. — You will find them out by experience. 4ft 13 10 so 40 y. — Is it not a fact that they are surveying the English coast all the time, making approvements there '( A.— Yes, but they have the currents worked up to a fine point, and that is by long experience ; the currents are renlly taken up by the pre- vailing winds, on this coast. Q — Is it your opinion that there is any special difficulty present on the Bell Isle route, to a careful navigator ■? A. — There is no difficulty if a man uses precautions, and if a man cannot see. he should stop until he does sec. Q.— Don't you, as a rule expect better weather in going out north than south, in the summer time ? A. — It is a doubtful route, as I said before, and you may or may not have a clear run. Q — When you get oppo.site eath Point, the probability is you will get good weather if you have good wind ? A. — Yes. from the south. • Q, — And if you have bad wind, you would hesitate to ixse it ? A.-Yes. Q. — Do you think there is more fog north or sonth in the summer time ? A. — Much the one as the other. Q — What is your opinion about the ice track ? Is it not smaller via lielle Isle than via Cape Race ? A. — No, I do not think so ; we are always on the lookout for ice when we get to the west of 45. Q. — Is it not a fact you meet less via Belle Isle than Cape Race ? A — Some seasons you do and some you don't. Q. — Alter you get around Auticosti, you make for the south shore ? A.— Yes. Q. — At Fame Point, is that lighthouse everything you could desire ? A. — It should be stronger. Q. — Is there any fog signal there ? A. — No, hut there is one on Cape Magdalen. Q. — If Fame Point is one of the first points you make,is it not highly desirable that )0U should have a fog signal of the best quality there ? A.-Yee. Q — How do you (ind the lights in coming up the river after you pass Fame Point ?I8 it not pretty well lighted ? A. — They are very poor lights, and might be improved in quality. Q — What is your opinion of the necessity of continuing fog signals where there are lights ? :;■»• B ;; — 14 — A. — A good fog signal is required at Cape Chat, Fame Point aud Father Point. Q.-- There is a fog sisnal at Cape Chat ? A. — A very indiftorent one, and should bo improved upon the cotton bomb, which is lired every twenty minutes Q.— Is it not absurd to think of firing a signal every twenty minutes A.— Yes, it should be every five minutes. Q.— What about Matane and Little Metis ? A. — There is no necessity there as it a straight course, and no neces- 10 sity for firing any there. Q.— How about Father Point ? A. — The fog signal is not good enough there as it is a gun I think but it is perfectly useless. Q — After you get your pilot on board, have you anything furth(?r to say as to the navigation between Father Poiut aud Quebec ? A. — No, the only thing is having a good turning light entering into the harbour of Quebec at New Orleans Island; on a dark night it is a difficult thing to come in with so many lights. Q.— Have'nt they got that all right and tworange lights ? 20 A — There are two range lights on St Louis wharf, but thev are no good. Q. — What is your opinion as to the pilots below Quebec ? A — The pilots we have are very good. Q — Are they not as good as the pilots you meet anywhere ? A.— I would not say (hat, but they are quite competent as far as I know. Q.— Wherein would they be deficient as compared with other pilots ( A.— The only thing to try them is in a case of collision, and I do not want that opportunity. Zo Q — Do you think they are lacking in nerve if they get into a light place ? A — No, I do not say that, but I say I have not tried them. Q. — There has been a suggestion. Captain, that owing to shoals on Bagot's Bluff, it would be an advantage to have a buoy there ? A — Yes, it would be an advantage. Q — To have a buoy off south point ? A.— Yes. Q — In going lo the eastward approaching Cape Ray, is there any- thing you have to suggest ? A. — You cannot get soundings until you are close in to the land ; the •40 Cape Ray fog signal is very poor. \ li — 15 — Q. — At the east eud of Anticosti, on the North-East side, do you think it -A'ould he an advantage to have a lightship there ? A— Yes.off cast point. Q. — Would it be possible to keep a lightship there? A. — Y»s you could keep her at anchor there, as th^re havt> been seve- ral ships lost there. You would require a foghorn on the lightship also. Q. — lu your opinion would not a proper hydrogra|)hic survey of the gulf of St Lawrence similar to that carried out by the American Govern- ment at Washington be an advantage to navigators V 10 A — Yes, a great advantage. Q.— Have you navigated to either Philadelphia or Baltimore ? A — Yes, to both points, but not recently. Q. — How did you find the navigation of the Chesapeake and Delawa- re Bay ? A. — We depend uponthe pilots and lead. Q. — Is there a great difference in the navigation of those two bays as compared with the St Lawrence ? A. — Yes, very mujh easier. Q. — In your opinion is it easier or worse to enter into New York or 40 Boston than Philadelphia or Baltimore '' A. — Much easier to enter into New York or Boston. Q. — You are jirobably not aware that in surance rates advanced from the Ifith of September in periodical jumps every til'teen days until the rate of in.surance on your line of vessels rises from something like 4f) in midsummer to 1 per cent : as we understand it, those insurance rate.s have been fixed in the old sailing days. Now, in your opinion is the navi- gation of the St Lawrence more difficult during the month of October than in July ? A. — I think it is much easier towards the fall. 80 Q- — A'so during the month of November? A —Yes, it is earlier on account of less fog. Q. — \ou made a reference to the navigation of the Delaware and Chesapeake as compared with New York and Boston, and sixted New- York amd Boston were much easier of access than the ports oi Philadel- phia and Ealtimore ? A -Yes. Q — Yh. Q.— After you pass Bird rocks ? A.-We come to Fame Point ; there should be a stronger light, and a good fog signal. rM .-^ Z^'f ^^^"' ^'^^''S^^^'^"- Cape Chat, Martin river, Mataue, and Little Metis they have ali lights ? A. -Yes, but I think all the lights should be made stronger, as I do not consider them first class lights. Q. — What about fog signals ? A.— There should be a fog signal at every light. Q— What about Father Point f A. -That is all right, only the fog signal is like all the rest of them not often enough; it sb.rild be five minutes at the outside. Q.-Going back t, rhe entrance of Belle Isle.have you anything tosay about that ? ° ' A.— Yes, we want i light and fog signal most necessarily at all those points. ' Q.— Now, as you proceed through the straits ? A —We want a fog .ignal at Flower Island. ■) ■!:' 19 — Q — Is it not yonr experience that the north easterly end of Belle Isle is more frequently made in your approaches to the island than the south- ern end ? A. — Yes, that is my experience, when there has been any thick wea- ther, and outside of that I have not had observations, because I have invariably made for the north rn point. Q. - Have you ever come in by the northern point ? A. — No sir, I wait until it clears, and come in south; you connot see Belle-Isle only on a certain angle, and you have to be well to the south 10 to see it, and on a dark night you cannot see the land, and a light on the north, east point would help you a lot. Q. — Is it not a fact in coming across, you follow the great circle track ? A.— Yes. Q. — And following that, would it not bring you on to the north end of Belle Isle light ? A,- -You would see that light before you would see the other one. Q — But even on a clear day, following the course ships generally do, you would not see thi- lighthou.se as it exists at present ? A. — i\o, it would be close in and shut out from us. •20 Q. — So you consider another light should be put on the north-west endoi Belle Isle V A,— Yes, a most important place. Q. — What reason did the Government give for not placing lights V A. — That the technical officers did not consider it necessary, whoever they were Q — They also stated that there was a reef outside ? A. — Yes, but that is lately scratched off the chart as not existing. Q. — It is all a myth about the Scotsman being lost there ? A.— No, indeed it is not, but if there had been a light the Scotsman :M) would have been all right to-day. Q.— Supposing they put a light there would that reef be more dangerous ? A. — They could have a red sector or danger sector on that light, to cover that reef. Q. — You remember the Minister said one reason they did not want to put a light there was because yoa would be making for that liii^ht and running on the reef? A.— I do not think so, and they are fetched up thero very often, and it they had a light and fog signal it would be a great help to us. 40 ■aj i — 20 — ^'1 Q. — After you get through the straits, have you any suggestions to make for that part of the Gulf between there and Heath Point ? A. — It would be very nice to have a fog signal at Point Rioh for ves- sels bound east, as it is more necessary for them than for vessels bound wtet, at that particular point. Q.— What about St Mary's Island ? A. — I think it is necessary to have a light and fog signal there too ; there should not be any light without a fog signal. Q. — You heard what Captain Vipond said about putting a lightship 10 in twenty fathoms of wate. off Heath Point ? A. — I think it is an excellent suggestion. Q — How iar out would that be from Heath Point ? . A. — About four miles. Q.— What about East, Captain ? A. — They might have a lightship about north-east so as to cover both points ; there is a log signal there, but I have not heard it yet, and I have passed in fog several times. Q. — What is your opinion about those bombs or fog signals being fi- red every 'wenty minutes ? 20 A. — It is not often enough ; it is ridiculous to have it every twenty minutes ; five minutes should be the outside limit Q. — You know, of course, that the rates of insurance increase very much after the 1st ot October : is it your opinion that the St Lawrence is more dangerous in October than in August ? A. — Certainly not ; it is easier in October. Q.— Why ? A. — Less fog. Q. — These regulations were made 25 years ago in the days of sailing ships, but the steamers that are running now are, of course, on entirely 3y different thing V A.— Yes. Q. — And the same regulations which were necessar'r for them are entirely out of place as regards the steameis ? A.— Yes Q.— What is your idea about November ? A. — Even November is easier than the summer time on account of there being less log, and clearer. Q. — What about snow storms 'i ■ A. — We look for them towards Novi^mber; I had snow coming out ^11 this time, but I never had it before, and I have gone out late in November and never had it. 21 Q.— What are your chances if you got ashore iu November iu one of those storms ? A. — Very pcor. Q.— The chances of getting relief in case of stranding are much better at this time of the year ? A. — Yes, certainly. Q— Do you not find the currents there very variable in the gulf ? A.— Yes; the chart is of little use, so far as currents are coaoerned. Q. — Would it not be better to have a hydrographic survey ? 10 A.— I think it would. Q.— Don't you find the soundings very irregular off Heath Point ? A. -Yes. Q.— Don't you find the Chesapeake and Delaware and Sandy Hook ea«ier of approach than the St Lawrence ? A.— Yes. all of them. Q.— I think I heard you say you thought it highly necessary to have a fog signal on every light V A.— Yes, and there should be no fixed lights in my opinion. Q.— Do you think it would be an advantage to have a larger number 20 of buoys in the river ? ■A- —Yes, gas buoys in preference to spar buoys. Q.-Take the navigation of the river Mersey, from the Mar light ship into the river, is it in your experience that in the last few years there has been a great improvement in the channel ? A.— Very great improvement, chiefly through opposition, and the nature of the improvement is by gas buoys on both sides of the channel and they are distinguished by green and red. ' Q.— Take the right hand side of the channel, are the buoys of the same shape ? ao A.— No, different shapes and colours. Conical shaped buoys on one and flat lopped buoys on the other, with a red color on one side, and black on the other. Q —Don't you think the introduction of that system in the St Lawren- ce -would be an aid to navigation i A— Yes Q.— The buoys between Montreal and Quebec and principally spar buoys ' A.- Yes, painted on one side black, and red, but you cannot tell the colour. Q— Take the Contrecoeur channel, could you tell which is the right ^^J or left side of the channel from the buoys ? 22 — 10 -10 A.-No. ■ . Q.-Ifyou had such buoys as are in the Mersey would it not be a great improveraeht ? A— Ves, agreat improveraunt, Hha>?s7^"^°'''^''"^*^ "'*'''""*'*'*''' iutrodiiction of buoys of different A.— Yes. Q.-Thea you said you prefer to have gas buoys instead of spar buoys? Q>-That is not necessary right through the St. Lawrence, but only at certain points^ Would it not be an advantage to have ga. buoys It the traverse on both sides of the channel ? A.-Yes, so as to know exactly ,h« p,..sition of the ship, where the c-hannel ,s. bat you cannot tell that now. but have to.judge your distance Q,-In regard to the g.s buoys near Montreal and Quebec, Do you Montr' r<" Tl^" '" ^T ^"' ^"°y^ '''■'' ^''''^^< - - to get into Montreal after dark, instead ol anchoring down at ;:^fn>l ? A— I would nor like to get into Montreal after davk, but 1 would .ko to come up a httle nearer than we ca.i.that is on account of the rapids 20 'n cae fei Lawrence Q. -You ent«r the port of Liverpool at any tirae.day or nij,ht ? A— Yes.and that is 12 miles long. .n *h?r^K yo» 'hh'k if you had gas buoy, from Point aux Trembles in- to the harbour of Montreal, you could come into Montreal ? A- -Yes. <.oin^„n\V^r '"^'""■' '"^"'''"^ •■' "^""^'"^ "'^ '^' St Lawrence than going up the Merst-y ? A -Yes, the channel is more difficult and twisting in the St Law- rence than m the Mersey. Q-J)id you say you had not the rapids to contend with in the Mer A.— Yes Q — How swift is the tide ? A^-I have never seen a ship stopped yet in the Mersey but I have seen them stopped here. ^ ^ Q—You are comii.g up ugain.t the current, and have the ressol under control ? What is the difficulty in coming up if you J d gas buo; on each side ol the channel ? b-^^wuo^s A. -I do not think there would be any difficulty MonlJe^V"'""'^''''"'''"^"^ ^"'"''^"^ '^^'•^"'bles to the harbour of o(> ^ I ?r«< 0'^ ■*"* ^se bays nior<^ dangerous than entering New York ? A.— No, I do not. Q.— What V. atcr would you like to have between (he keel and bottom as a matter of safoiy, going down the St Lawrence ? A. — Four or five (eei anyway. m Q. -What do j'ou :hiuk would be the limit of safety ? ::;=^3SaBi^H^9H>« m m — 24 -. A— Different ships want more than others. ti— A fiftt floored ship, what would be the minimum of safety 2 18 inches V A— That is a little too close. And further deponent saith not. A A. URQUHART. Official Stenographer, to DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN R. 0. JONES. OF S. S. ROMAN. ^0 ;w 4« Montreal, October !»th 1900. Captain R. O. Jones in command ol the steamship " Ottoman ". Q — How long have you been in command f A. — Fove years. Q. — Ho'v long have you been trading in the St Lawrence ? A. — 17 years. Q.— Principally as (ihief officer ? A. — 1 stiirted as junior and worked my way up Q — In leaving Montreal, have you any suggestion to make? Of course Che ship would be in charge of the pilot, but have any suggestions to make about the navigation between Montreal and Quebec ? A.— No sir, except the buoys are poor. I would suggest to have a buoy at Point aux Trembles.that is a gas buoy. Q.— You are strongly of the opinion that there should be a better o-as buoy at Point aux Trembles ea bus '. ° A. -Yes, and certainly I would suggest another turning on the west end of Orleans Island.and also a leading light for the St Lawrence point that is half way down Orleans Island. Q. — Is there any light there now ? A — Yes, there is only one there. Q— Where do you want it ? A. — At the west end of Orleans buoy on the south shore. Island, and there should be a gas "» ^! I — 25 Q.— When you change pilots at Quebec, and proceed, what have you to say as to the channel betwee!i Qnebec and Father Point ? A — No suggestions to make, except to have a g.is buoy on the tra- verse In turning arouu'l the lighthouse it is hard to judgj of distance at night and there should b' a liifht on th<> bmk on the north side as you are very apt to give the lighthouse too wide a berth, but the light there is good. Q. — Proceeding along what have you to say ? A — Nothing more to Father Point, as it is properly lighted en route 10 Q- — Well, after you dismiss your pilot, what have you got to say ? A. — About the fog signals at Fither Point, it is absurd to have one every 20 minutes, it should be every fives minutes. Q.-Do you think there should be fog signals at each lighthouse on the way down the St Lawrence ^ A. — Yes, I certainly do. Q — What is your opinion as to the light there now ? A. — J have never experienced any difticulty from Father Point to Fame Point, except with the fog signals, that is one of them during a fog but ot course in clear weather, you can see the lights, but I would not say JO that they are fir.st cla-^s lights, as 1 think they might be improved. Q. — What distance can you st'e these liu:hts V A —Well, lights at different altitude':, different distanc>!s ; it depends on the height of the light ;Fame Point light you ought to see twenty miles, but 1 do not suppose you can see it that distance unless it is a very clear I'ight. Q. — You consider that the most important point in coming into the St Lawrencrt < A. — Yes, one of them. »,). — Is not that the point you steer for when you get around Heath .iO Point ? A. — Yes sir, it is one of the turning points, and there should be a good light there, and fog signal too. Q^ — Well, of course taking the southern route in going out, you keep along ways south of Anticosti I A — Yes, we do not go near Anticosti but I should say 2.» or 30 miles off Anticosti. Q. — In proceeding down, have you every aid to navigation you want there, or do you think it might be im[)roved ? A.. — I should think a fog signal at Port a Basque would be a good ^(, tiling- 26 — 2# Q — What about Cape Ray ? A.-There is one there, but a very poor one, and I would recommend a stronger one at Port a Basque. Q.-As you proceed along past Cape St Mary and Cape Pine, is there anything wrong there ? A.— I would suggest a fog signal at Cape Pine. Q.-Now about Belle Isle. What about Anticosti. Is everything ri^ht there V j a a ,A .. ^■~^*'''' ^ q'"'« agree with Captain Vipond about having a lieht- 10 ship in 20 fathoms of water. Q.- About gas buoys olf south point, what do you think < A. -Yes, there should be one there, as that is where the Idaho went ashore. Q.-Have you ever experienced trouble in getting around Healh Point on accou>it of soundings ? A.-There are good soundings there, still, it would be a great help to li htshi f ' ''' ''"^ '''''"''* ''"'^'' '"""■" ^°"^*^«"*^^« '» approaching the Q. - How do you find the soundings there as compared with the charf? A. — Very irregular. Q.-4fteryou pass Heath Point, and your new lighthouse in 20 lathoms of water, what have you to say ? A.-It has been suggested a light would be a benefit on St Mary's Is- laud, and It would, but St Mary's Island we pass a good distance off', still It IS possible for a ship to get out of its course. Q.-Would you recommend a fog signal at Point Rich ? A.— Yes sir, at every lighthouse. Q.-When yon get to the entrance of the straits, what have you to say? A.~It IS all right there; there is a signal at Point d'Amour, and I OO would strongly recommend a fog signal at every lighthouse. Q.-Well then, there is nothing until you get outside the straits ? A.— No, sir. Q.— You have beeir accustomed to the straits ? A. — Yes sir, for J6 years. Q^-Do you consider the straits more dangerous than the southern route ? A.^Yes. Q— Why ? A. -Mostly on account of the soundings, and also more ice. 4$ Q- — Is there more ice up north ? 27 10 20 0(1 4t« A. — That is my experieuce, although the ice track is shorter, still, you meet with a great deal more ice.aud I think the currents are more ra- pid up there Q — Do you thitik there is any more danger for a careful navigator who has his wits about him ? A. — Yes, I think it is easier and safer around by the south Q. — If you were leaving Liverpool to-morrow with oOO passengers, with no iustrucLions from your owners, and you were expected to get to Montreal as quick as possible without running danger.what route would you take, with your 17 years experieuce V A. — If she was my own ship I would go south by Cape Race, becau- se I think it is less dangerous. Q. — Is it not shorter ? A. — It is through the straits. Q.— What about fog up there as compared with south i A, — I dare say you might have less fog. Q. — Take the average years, do you think there is anything gained by using tht Belle Isle route ? A. — You might gain a little, but I do not think you would gain much unless one would take a great deal of risk of running in fog. Q.— Has it not been your experience that you have found better water north than south, particularly in the fall ? A.— Yes. Q — Supposing you were coming from Liverpool by the straits.is the lighting everything you would desire on Belle Isle ? A. — Yes, fairly good. Q. — Would you suggest any improvement ? A.- -The Bellelsle light is all right, but you can only see it at a cer- tain angle. Q. — You have heard the other Captains who have been examined, state that they were practicitlly in favor of a light and fog signal on the north- east end of Belle-Isle, what do you think of that ? A —I think it is a very good thing, and should have been there long ago. Q. — Do you think the St Lawrence is more dangerous in October or November than in August i A. — N I sir, we get better weather then and less fog. Q — It is pretty bad in August? A. — iSometimes. Q — Do you think the insurance companies should charge 2 or 3 times as much in October as they do in August i t m — 28 ~ A— No, I do not. Q.— Do you thiuk that a proper hydrographic survey of the gulf of St Lawrence such as conducted by the Washington Government, would be of enut assistance in navigating the gulf? A.— yes. Q— Have you navigated the Delaware and Chesapeake and approached Sandy Hook ? A.— No, sir. Q.— In your experience, have you not made the north-east end of 10 Belle Isle more frequently than the southern end' A— Yes. Q.— You have already said a survey would be beneficial as the cur- rents are variable ? A.— Yes, in approaching Belle Isle the great circle track, especially from the north of Ireland takes you pretty close to the north end of the island. Q.— Then you think it is very necessary to have a light there ? A. -Yes. Q. — I think you said you considered it important to have a fog signal 20 !vt avery lighthouse ? A.— Yes. Q.— What would you consider the minimum of safety as regards the depth of water in the channel and the dralt of your ship going down the channel from Montreal. How much do you think it necessary to have in order to ensure safety for a ship of your size ? A.— Fourteen or fifteen inches at least. And further deponent saith not. A. A. URQUHART, Official Stenographer. .10 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN J. BRODIE.OF THE S. S. "SARMITIAN". 40 Montreal, October 9th 1900. Captain .1. Brodie, in command ol S. S. Sarmatian. Q— How long have you been in command ? A.— Ten years, eight years in the St Lawrence. 1» % 4 — 29 Q.— What port did you sail from this time ? A.— Glasgow. Q.— What route did you take Y A. -Belle Isle. Q. -Why did you take Belle I§Ie ? A.— Because it is the shortest. Q. — Quite satisfactory to you ? A,— Yes, it is the shortest route. Q.-How long have you been in the St Lawrence trade v A.— Off and oi; 22 years. ^^ ^^ ,^"T!'f ^^''' T" ^'^ '"^ ''''•'"^ ^^'^ approaches to Belle Isle from the liast ward i I everything satisfactory as regards lighting ^ A.— No, sir. a h ■ Q.— What would you suggest ' are et^edltu iflT^^ '''''''' "^^^ ^""^"'"' ^"^ ^^^'"^^''^^'-^ >^«^^« ced wh;:;::ut;^:i*itm^ '^'"^ ^^ ^^^^^^'^'^ ^'^^^ ^^"'^ ^^ ^-•■ «. r'^h""^'; 'r l'"T ''"''' "°' ^'''^ penetrating power. Sometimes.you will see Belle Isle h.ht 80 mil... other times, when ,h. atmosphere was very humid, you would . ot see it three miles, but with an ordinary hi'.h dasl |ght, .t would p..net,ate through that state of atmosphere a'litUe mor: than a couple of miles, and I think that light would bear improment. y.-What do vou say about a light on the North East end ? A -It would be advisable. altKmgh coming strictly on the great otrcle^ujakes Belle Isle light but coming exactly ou thai circle itw cut ott the view at seven miles distance. Q.-What have you to say about the navigation of the straits ^ A.-The straits are difficult to navigate in my opinion. tiJ. — Have not you soundings ? o(i ^ —Yes, and a vcM-y good chart. Q.— Have not you an anchorage ground f two t^l^''- "" ""'■yj'^"^'- ""^'^^^^ y'''» "T ♦« ^'ne in too close; there are t«o b.nks8.ven on this survey if you are caught, but for my own part I would not attempt to go into the straits of Belle Isle without I could s e thiMg,s. but caught as I have b.en this last voyage. I got past Cane N^r- man , wo ai,d a half miles.and I though I heard^he fog s'^i a^ but t was imagination. . Q.-You really never anchored in the straits '^ h,« f "'? "u '' u V'"'"^ ^ ^^ ""' ^'"^* '^ ^°' »>"t ^hi'^ «hip I am in ■'' !!;: ts'tVesort"' '"' '"' ""'^^ •" '' ''^^^^•"^^ ^' -^-- ^-^ ^^ - 2« i ■I :? Iti I) — 30 — Q. — Is thore anything you wonid siigfft'^t there ? A. — I would suggest !i I'oa: signal, halfway between FloWer ledge and Cape Norman, on the Newrouniiluiul side and the light that is erect- ed there, is only a twi'lve mile light, on Flower ledge, and the light at Point d' Amour iu not good, as they are not penetrating, and the only lights 1 A. — It is a long stretch from Point d'Auiour to fli'ath Point, about :i48 miles, and there is nothing else to go by, only the ledge ; and the 10 soundings, after leaving Greenlay Island are not vt-ry good, as sometimes you strike in a hole and the next will be twenty fathoms of water, and I W")uld suggest that a good survey in the gull' and soundings between Greculay Island and Cape Ray would be a good thing. I discovered two years iuro a patch ol scvfiiteen fathoms in the track of the ships. which I reported io the Hydrographic survey, and it is marked on the last survey. (.,». — Si Mary's Island was suggested by some of the Captain's, as desi- rable to have i light there.what do you think about that ? A. — Ifa lighi was put there my opinion is a light would be necessary on the Corinorani 'ocks. I think to itut a light on the St Mary's rocks 20 would tempt pt^oph? to go in too far whereas it is a dangerous coast, but I would ai)prfive of a ligh.ship or something off Heath Point. Q. ~ Is il not a fact ll\*t the current sets you in V A. — Sometimes if does, and sometimes it sets on the opposite side. If there was a good lightship and fog sigrials oT H' ath Point, it would be a guide to turn around thiit point. Q — You go in south 1>\ Cape Race ? A. -Yes. Q. — Which route do you prefer,? A. — I prefer south. ^0 Q.-VVhy ? A. — Looking at it from a seaman's point of view, I have more sea room; I ha''e the o< -^'aH on one side and land on the other. When I come in by Belle Isle, I an.\ as it were, jiomg into a gateway. No sensible man can go througi" Belle i le without seeing his way. Q. — Have y< u any s>^n Capo Pmo.hut thoro has not got to be too many lights, a thi'y inlf f.'ro one with anotbor Then JO tho next turning point is tho .St Pierre Miquolon Islands; thou Cape Kay, which has a very poor litjht. At Port a Bisque I do not care to go in around those cornor.x, and I wouM have fog signals at Cape Ray, and a good ono.as the rocks project throe milos outsid'* t;ie land. Q — And then you come t(» Hirtako n)ie for tho other,but I would recommend a powerful li'jht and t'o."^ signal at Fame Point Q.--If tho fog signals alternate the same as the lights do, you could ■jQ not mistake 'Hio for tho other ' A. — Yes sir, but if you are at a radius from those fog signals, it is a ditlicult matter to count the number orbla.st.s. It goes up to throe for tho greatest mumber, and yon may b- close to them and not he able to count t hem Q. — You could approach it ? A. — But ovout iiidepiMidcnt of that, I have soon when you would approach a fog signal, in some cases you would not hear it, but go another mile off it and you wouM hear it quite distinctly. Q. — What would you suggest between Fame Point and Father Point? ;.{() Are the lights up to the mark ' A. — No sir, they want more poverful lights, and 1 would have a fog .signal at Cape Chat, and another good one at Father Point.and the lights right aloni; increased in power. Q. —You do not consider the existing cotton booms sufficient V A. — No sir, you would have to stop the ship in order to listen for one in tw "nty minutes, Q — Do you think the St Lawrence more dilBcult of navigation in the months of October and Novelnbo.r than in Augus'^^ V A. — Some parts of it, fur example the straits of Belle Isle in the begin- ning of 0;'t Q. — You remarked that the light at Cipe Rice could be improved, and you also mentioned aboat (he St Pierre Miquelon lights. Is that French light much bitter than the others V :^(l 40 ■^ :. ■i^ — 33 — 20 -«(♦ A.— Yes.inuch b.'tlor than any lights we have on the Canadian coaet. Q- — You can see them much farther ? A.— Yes, in hazy weather ; the othei lights have more of an altitude and when the atmosphLM-eis in a half humid slate, you cannot see the lights at th.'ir full range, but thuse two French lights in ray opinion are far ahead of the other lights in the Si LawrenoiJ. Q.— How do the j\merican lights compare with our lights ? A. — They are better than our lights, and so are the Ijiglish lights, because the system of the Am,-rican lights has been greatly improved.' 10 Going into Boston Iky they are all active lights.aud they flash the num- ber, and you cannot make a mistake, and they have a good penetrating power, and the same holds good when entering th.i Delaware as well Q —You state that the Canadian lights as a whole are inferior to the French lights, American lights and English lights ? A— Yes. Q— The French lights are under the Government of France Y A. — I do not know, but I know that they are the best lights in the world. Q.— The American lights of recent years have improved very much ? A. -Yes, on the French system, and the English lights have also im- proved, but not up to a standard of the French system. We have some lights on the liritibh coast superior in power, that is,iudividual lights,but not ol the same action. Q— Do you agree that the St Lawrence navigation is more difficult than English navigation < A.— Yes sir, I do. Q.— Do you consider it is imperative that the.'^e lights up the St Lawrence should be as good as the English, taking it right through V A. — Y<'s. Q— You think that there is room for vast improvement around New- foundland and the St Lawrence ? A.— Yes. Q— Do you know of any lights that are as poor as ours on any coast line V ^ A— I will say that the lights on this coast are inferior to our lights on the I'.ritish coast. (i.~ Would you rather navigate Belle Isle in fog than in a snow storm? A —That is jum|)ing out of the frying pan into the hre, I do not see that there is any preference. With a snow storrii you have this disadvantage, that you have, as a 'I 1 4 :i3 L St. de ho re i I 34 10 •20 rule, a stronjf wind which would not enable you to hear a fog signal very well, but you have a little advantage the other way in seeing the light through a gap, which you would not through a fog, so putting them alto- g.'tht^r ont- IS black as the other. Q. — You have navigated the Delaware and Chesapeake and approohes to Sondy Hook f A.— Yes. but not recently. Q. — Don't you think it is much easier to approach those points by the lead than the St Lawrence ? A. — Yes, as it is a more uniform bottom. Q. — Don't you think if the pilots had active sea service they would be much bitter qualilied to handle the steamers in the river, that is, if they were to graluate as officers -' A. — I do not know that, but the Master is generally there. Speaking perM)u.illy. if I am not on tue brige, it is only for a short interval; in the Working of ship> all jiilots know how to port and starboard and steady the-ht'lni, an I there is always an officer standing by. If you refer to the working oi an en riue .... Q. — I refer to the necessity of having a pilot trained to exercise his calm judgment in moments of emergency ? The officer on the steam'ir is viriually I'l command when on the bridge, now would not these qualifi- cations learned by actual charge when on the bridge, enable a man to more properly fill the functions of pilot V Would not active sea service benefit th iiilots. that is.as master or officer ? A. — I have no doubt it would but when he would get Master,if he wa-* as old as I a am (about 60) he would uot be much fit for a pilot. (J. — But a man might easily qu^'ify for a pilot at 21 i A. — it is also a fact when pilots are appointed they are 24 or 2r>. and il" they get Masters before then, they are pretty lucky. Q — Wliat do you consider should be the least depth of water between your keel and bottom, it going down the river on a big vessel ? A — I am not able to judge, unless 1 knew how many boulders there were heiween here and Quebec. Q. — The spring freshets bring them down, and I would like you to answer the question V A.— Going down the St Lawrence in my experience, it is not in the places that we anticipate are shallow that we touch, so it would be a difficult matter for me to tell how much I would like under the ship's boitom, to- go over boulders, but if you take a line over the top of the sup- *" pused hou.iler I would say l-') or 18 inches. 30 ^ ^- 35 -^ ' Q.— If ther were twenty seveen feet six inches in the channel, you would not consider it safe to load your ship more than 26 feet ? A.— Yes, about that. And further deponent saith not. A. A. URQUHART, Official Stenographer. 10 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN. I AMES DINGALLOF S. S "ASSYRIAN' 29 Captain Jaraes Dingall, commander of the S S. Assyrian, who. beinj examined, deposes and says : Examined BY Mr. Torrance. Q. — What is your name, Captain ? A — James Dingall. Q — What ship do you command ? A. — The Assyrian. Q. — Where do you sail from ? A. — Antwerp. Q.— What route do you take ? • A. — Cape Race. Q.— Why do you chose Cape Cace ? 30 A —Well, [ think Cape Race is the safest. Q. — I.S it the shortest on your voyage from Antwerp ? A.— No sir. it is a matter of forty or fifty miles difference. Q.— Why do you think it the safest ? A.— I have more sea room there and in case of a big fog, coming into Belle Isle, we would not approach Belle Isle in a fog ; coming by Cape Race, we can : we have better soundings there. Q.— Are the lights and signals on that route all that are to be desired? A.— No, sir. Q —Where have you noticed an improvement would be advisable ? 411 A.— On Cape Race. «2, 1 — 36 — Q — Whiit is the matter there ? A. — Well, the iog isii»:nal is no good ; you sometimes cannot tell the signal from the steamer's whistle, Q — There is a fog signal there ten seconds every minute? A —Yep. Q. — Ii is practically useless ? A. — Yes, worse than useless, because a person would be apt to take it for a steamboat's whisile ; it is quite possible for us in a log to port, and give the signal that we are porting for another steamer ; the consequence ]0 is in a few minutes you will find yourself on the rocks ; this is worse than useless I think from what I have heard of it. Q — Do you try to come as near Cape Race as possible ? A — We come in to gel reported, if it is clear. Q.— After you pass Cape Kace, what about Cape Tine, Cape St. Mary { A.— There is a good fog sigmi) wanted on Cape Pine. Q— After you pass Capt, St. Mary, you pa:ss St Pierre Miquelon ? A — Yes. there should be a good fog signal there. I never heard that one. Q.— Those are P'rench lights, we have nothing to do with thera, but _M1 the lights are first class there < A.—Yi's, ihe best lights on the coast. Q. — You pass liird Rocks '/ A.— We pass Cap > Ray ; that signal is the same. I passed them both this time in « log and I hi'ard them both and they are just the same ; you would tak^-' them for a steamboat. By Mb. Campbell : m 4« Q. — It is a revolving light on Cape Ray ? A.— Yes. Q. — You never take the time of the revolutions ? A. — White every twenty seconds. Q. — You never did it, I suppose ? A.— No Q. — iJid you take the time of any of these lights ? A — Those that we have any doubt about. Q.— Is it very frequent that you notice it not according to the chart? A.— Yes, very often there. Q. — You never log that, do you ? A. -No. ?: L M -i 10 — 37 — Q.— Would you lojr a liance. Q. — It is a ve-y good light ' 30 A.— Yos.it is a very good lio'u ; fivr mii.utes is long enough for Bird Rocks because in goinij in then yon a.e a long distance from any other place ; you are seventy five miler. irom Ci pe Ray. Q. — After you pass the Bird R«icks what point do you make for ? A. — Fame Point. Q.— How is that V A.— The light might be b'^ttr mi there, log signals I have not hoard any. Q.— You think the light migl»t bt .>nproved there ? A. — Ail the lights on that Coa t might be improved there right up to ■i.^ Father Point. — 38 10 Q— Are you of the opinion that wherever there is a light there should bf a fog signal ? A. — Yes.sir ' • Q.— Wt^ll then, have you anything to say between Fame Point and Father Point except the improvement of the lights ? A. — Yes sir, there ishould be a fog signal wherever there is a light especially on Metis, I think there should be a fog signal there because it is a little turning point. Q— What about Mataue ; there is a shoal there ? A-Yes. Q.— What about that buoy there that indicates the shoal, is it larg* enough, or too small ; is i» very easily seen ? A.— Not very easily ; they are smaller buoys than the one on Fame Point. Q. — And there should be a larger buoy at Mataue ? A-Yes. By Captain Reid : •20 Q.— Would it be well to retoramend a perch buoy there ? A. — A gas buoy. That is close in ; you do not get in a fog, you would not be in there in a fog ; it is well into the laud. I would have to be close to it to hear it. " By Mr. Torrance. :M) 40 Q.— What have you to say about the pilots between Father Point and Quebec, are they perfectly satisfactory to you ? A — We have very good pilots. Q.— Nothing to complain of? A.— We have our own pilot, he is a very good pilot. Q, — Do you think he is as good us on the other side of the water ? A. — We meet with dilFereut men in every part of the world. If they get into a tight corner, they get very much excited, more so than an En- gU>hman. My experience on the St Lawrence has been very fuvorable. Q —You never saw them on board drunk ? A. — I would not have them. (f— Or under the influence of liquor ? A. — No.sir. Q —If they came aboard at Father Point, under the influence of li . quor what would you do { — 30 — A —J would not take a man tlruiik out oC thi? 8i;hoonor, I would not put th(! li.dd.'r down to him. 1 am a lil'.'long tuftotallcr, and I f,'>'t hold ol these thiiiirs pretty (|uiek perhaps I am a litile (|uick in detecnni? that. Q.— Your experienee of the pilots between Quebec and Father Toint is siitisfaetory :" A.— Yes sir. The Ibir signal at Fatlu-r Point is not at all satisfactory, I wem down la^it lime in a loj^r and we were in about eight iathoms ol' w.iter bei'ore we heard it at all, and theti we heard it on the port bow; we started again, aiiu in so close to Fame Point. By Mr Camphkll, Q— or course there is no ihallow water from Father Point there is pretty deep water there V A. — We have to is to make ? A. — I should think there should be gas buoys in the Traverse. ;;n Q. — Are there not gas buoys there V A. — There is one Q.— There is a very fine lighthouse there V A.— Yes. I went down there the last lime, and fog; we were bound to i^o on. There was more risk in rnnning down be0 4% A — No, I would like loseo Home iinprovetrnMits in thn lights. I Ihi ik that — I di) not know — I hiive not thought tin; mattcir ovt r muoh. It kuiIh us viTy well, th(! husinesis from Sydnoy to Saint .Tohnu I do n )t kn-iw whoro we can put any lights, until we reach Low Point. Q. — What about log signals ? A. — There is no signal there. Q — Would not you like to have one there ? A. — Yes, there is no signal there or on Cape Saint Laurent. Q — Do you think we should have fog signal son both places { A. — Yes.especially wherever there is so mueh indraught as there. We very often fin I that going down there the Weather cominenees thick ; going down to Saint Johns, we find a gre it indraught, and 1 have passed Cape Saint Maurice and made it, but I did not expect to see it. If there had been a io^- signal there, I Wduld have heard it before. Q.— IIow far off can you hear the fog signals ? A. — That one at Ca[)e Kaee — you cannot hear that one it is according to where you are and how the weather is. It you are bound to the west- ward, and yon are coming eastward, you do not hear the fog signal well to the westWiird at Cape Race at all Q. — Could not they be improved ' A. — Yes, by having one at Cape I'ine. (^.— Do you think the log signal at Cape Race itself could be impro- ved ? A — [t is now improved. I have heard it a long way off. Q. — Would a siren be better '? A, — I w /1 '/ y;^ f^ ,\ :\ iV \ ^^ . ' ^'^ \ '^^4 \ I - 45 — a good distiuioe off, it is put there with the buoys running around Bombray Head. I have been talking to the mera bers down there, and they suggested that it be shifted to Madore Point. It is very liitle use to us. We have been coming in and goin-.^ out, and do not hear that at all. Q. — Y .11 woiiH suggest a good new one on Low Point ? A. — Yes, Mr Hutchison has been there, and he agreed that it should be put there ; it would not do any hirm to leave it where it is, if it tias only a different sound. Then the next place we have any difficulty with is the whistle on Saint Paul's, that it is not heard to the westward island. 10 Q — What about Cape Kay ? A. — Cape Ray is a good whistle as far as I know, I never have any trouble with ihat, and I whs thinking of Cape North we should have one ; it is a high land which is frequently covered. We never attempt lo hear that one there to the eastward island. Q. — What would yon recommend ? A. — A log signal on Cape North; thi'y have a light on Bird Rock; it is a fiX' d light;it is a very good light, if you can manage to pick it up That light 1 think should be even altered to a flashing light. Ihftre are fishermen staying there often with a very large light, and it is conflicting. The only •20 thinj iiiiit iead'ius to know that it is nut Bird Rock is the lead. I think it would be an improvement to have no fixed lights at all, all flashes and all to one, two, or three. It is easier to get that off it is better to do away with all lised lights and ail red lights; that red ligdt on Cape Masrdalen you have to be near that to determine it. They should all be changed to distim tive flashing light.*' V The Gaspe light used to be a red light, and we could never dei)eud on seeing it, sincii it has been changed we can often see it. There is another place down there that is very d-'ceptive. Had there been a liuhthouse and a fog signal at Bryon Island, at North Magdalen ,S0 I.sland, there would Ut'ver have been an Occident there Many times we are to the sonihward, and often to north with the setting of the cuireut, expec- ting to moke Hird R(Kk achead, and we get pa>t Bryon Island ; but I have frequently gone down. Our course down is South-East by South by t^outh-west, and we have made Bird Reck any where from ahead — from four points anyhow. Q. — You think it would be desirable if the currents should be thor- oughly investigated ? A. — That current has been tried some two or three years ago, but it is the action of the winds that moves these currents — the South-East and 4U South-West winds. We try to get ebb and How, the rise and fall of the tide il 46 - 10 2e nd A9 or how the tide is f'owiiigieither of thuse winds will have a strong action on the current The only thing that affects us particularly is between Rodgerand Bird Rock, on the way down, and vessels going down from here, going out by Saint Paul, they will lind them frequently set to the southward. Th«i strongest jmrt of the current would be between Rodger and thiit place, but we do not find th.* current affect us coming up ; we cansteer through it from Bird Rock, and mHke land at Fame Point. I think there should be a fog signal at Fame Point, il would be very usrful. Q. — You said jusi now that wherever there wasaliirht there should be a fog signal ? A.— Yes.there are some places,probi»bly Marti;; River might not need a log signal, because the iand iu nearly straight thjre, but at Cape Magda* len and Fame Point there should be. Q.— And at Meti« ? A — No. not so much «s Matanc; coming on the westerly course from Matane -ve have to watch carefully that the current do not take us into the starboard and set us into Matane. Of course you can go close into Me- tis. After you get above Matane your course shows more southerly (hen and it strikes you certainly on the bank at Matane. Q. — There is a black buoy at Matane V A. — Yes thirc is a blat k buoy there, but we always have in the last few years got along all right Q. — For strang'Ts c »raing up a gas buoy would be very useful at Ma tane ? A — Yt's, gas and b-'ll Theie h always more or L'ss curr>Mit thiire. That is a very small buoy at Matane anyway. Q — It is practically useless '* A. — Yes. A man coning up thert that knows it is there can know pretty near where to look lor it. lu the Siiiu Lawrence above Bic there is a revolving liirht, every two minutes, but I think further up the river seems to be well buoyed. Q.- What about the Traverse ? A. — There is a good light in the Tri\.'er8e; two good lights; that is a good light that ni'W one they put up there, when they get the other light in the Traverse. I think it will bt^ all right. Q. — Would you like more gas buoys in the Traverse? A. — I do not know. vVe can get aloug' very well without any gas buoys in the Traverse the way we are now, but of course strangers under the pilots do not know so well, especially when the weather gets thick. "We know pretty near as much as the pilots themselves. 10 •20 SO — 47 — Q. — Do you take pilots below 'Qut'bec ? A. — We have to. We have one on board all the time. Q — How do you find these pilots, as a rule ' A. — Our men are jfoud men. We have refjular men appointed. They are appointed at maturity to run up and down. We have no trouble with our men, if we take lour de role men. There is another thing just about at the time being at Bic. They are very careless about camingout at IJio to look for a ship, and any time we want a pilot we have generally a great deal of trouble to get a good oue. I complained to the pilot board in Quebec several times about them ta- king it easy. They know the best men are picked out for the ship aud they do not care whether a stranger comes up without one or not. One man came up without a pilot, and he had to pay another man and tak'> an ap- prentice pilot, aud he had to pay him and the other pilot also. Q. -Would it not be better to abolish this and pluce all the pilots at Father Point ? A. — Yes They are advocating buildiug a breakwater for a number of years at Father Point. The great trouble with the Quebec business is that the coiporation is under the Imperial Government, and they have certain rules and regulations, ajid they have to follow them up, or they will lose their charter. That is the leason that the pilots in the Saint Law- rence are so different from the others. I have heard that from the pilots themselves that they are chartered by the Imperial Govsrnraent before Confederation. Q — Well Captain, the fog signals that you have down below which you think are not quite up to the mark they are fired at intervals of twenty minutes V A. — Yes, that is too long. Q. — What is yoitr opinion as to the time that should elapse ? A. — It should be five to seven minutes. I should tink five minutes and not longer than seven anyway. They have a very good system at Green Island and I saw it on several occasions coming up here Their time! is twenty minutes, and when they hear a vessel they lire every three or four minutes; we know what they are doing it for. Q.— But strangers do not ? A. — Yes,th»' pilots know; they are in pilot w.iters then. Q — What water does your steamer draw when loaded ? A.— 19. 10 to iJil feet. # I. t ; 10 •iO — 48 — By Mr Hablinq ; Q.— How are the leadiug lights at Quebec, do you find any trouble there ? A -Yes, I do. Q. — What would yon recommend there ? A. — There are two red lights tht're., hut they are very poor lights. There shou'd be some thing on the west side of Orleans. Q. — What about Saint Bernard ? A. —Well, we have experienced no difficulty there; we have not e::pe' rienced any difficulty coming up there with the lights. There was a pi- lot coming up from Quebec who took the steamer right inside of the Is- land of Orleans altogether and the Captain, acomparative stranger sugsrest- ed to the pilot that he was going wrong, and he said : " No. Well he said, "what is that light, over there ? " He pointed to the Montmorency light. The lirst thing he kjiow he was in the Islaned of Orleans. Q. — That man was not altogether right at the time, he was drunk, was be not ? A.— Ye.«. Q.- What did they do with him ? A.— Oh the usual thing, suspended him for a month. Q. — He was a lour de role pilot ? A. -Yes. Q, — There is a buoy off Matane there ? A.— Yes. • Q.--Is it pretty good buoy ? A. -Yes. By Captain Reid 80 Q. — With regard to the buoys of the channel between Quebec and Montreal, do you noi think there should be less spire and more can and conical bnoys ? A. — The night before last, we did some thing that we never did before but once ; we came up aiound Cape Loretto p.fter dark. Q. — Why did you come up ? A —We saw the buoys jdainly and we thought there was a chance to get along; it was a moonligh night and we came up. Q. — t)f course you were not drawing very much ? A — 19 11, and it Was just the top of high water i 4(j 1 knew by going up as far as Batiscan or Champlain we would reach here Mfei. n — 49 ^ yestorday afternoon. I had a good pilot to ooin up with, and 1 thought we could get up here yesterday, but I suggested to him whether it would not be a good thing to have a lew gas buoys in the Cape Loretto channel. Q. — Would you not recommend gas buoys right up ? A — Yts, I would. Q.— II the lake navigation is so important as to require thirty-five gas buoys —we have only two between hero and Quebec, and one of them very indiflerent ? A.— One of them very poor Bt Captain Rkilly : Q. — Is it at Poiute aux Trembles that it is poor ? A. — Yes,twenty good gas buoys distribut»'d judiciously between here and Quebec would enable us to navigate this river at any time. By Mr Allan Q. — How do you find the sounding on your chart ? Wi'ness:— lu the gulf Y 20 Q— Ye,s. A.— Well, we uever get them the same as the chart. The only place the soundings are any good lo us in thi?- trade is approaching Sydney Harbor; they are all right there and at Bird Ilock, and we know if We are from thirty-live to forty fathoms of witer ; when we are in less than Irom fliirty-five to forty fathoms of water, we are on the rocks. Q. — Wh»'re do you run in the winter ? A.— To Boston. Q — How are the lights there ? A. — They are very much b^^tter than on the Canadian water. There i^'^ is no light I lliink that beats Miles Lights, number 143, and it flashes 14:! as regularly as anything There is no trouble about it, it is Just, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3. Q. — Would you think that would be a good idea in the gulf ? A. — I think in time we will have our lights like that. Q —Then our Canadian lights are inferior to the United States lights ? A.-Yhs. Q.-— And inferior to the British lights ? A.— Yeb, and British lights are inferior to the French lights. Q.— This light on Saint Pierre Miquelon is better than any French 4« lights I ;-{ — 50 — A - -That on« on Lamhly is a v«ry pood one. We do not Hoe very muoh ol' these lighwi.unlesc we get clear down. That fog signal on Cape St.Fran' cis at Newfoundland can never be heard to the westward. rj. — ll«)W about the Stiaits of B.'Ue Isle ; you hear a good deal from other captains. You know there is a light on the south end of the island of Belle Isle i- A.— There are two lights.a high and a low light. Q. — A good many captains think it would he very advisable to have 1* light put on the northwest end of the island ? 10 A.— There is no light up there. We have never known any "one come through there, unless they were jammed through ice. Q.— Do you not think it would be advisable to have a light up there ? A.— I should think so. Q.— Po you make the land up by the northeast end. This light on th»' south point I imagine is hidden, would be hidden ; you have no signal to turn ? A. — There is nothing but the land. Q. —If you had a light in there, you would know where you were, A. — Yes, then a man cauld steer for the centre of the island I have liO gone around that way when this place has been blocked here. There should be another light on Fortune Bay there. By Major Bond : Q. — At what time in ihelall do you expect snowstorms down below ? A. — Any time after the middle ot October. They do not come in mitch until November; but we have had them frequently after the tenth of Oc- tober. Q.— Then, comparing a snowstorm with a log, which you would .,^. consider more dangerous ? A.— 1 think a snowwslorn would be worse, because we can hear something in a fog, and in a snowstorn you cannot hear anything. Q. — But you can see something ? A. -No, it covers everything. Q.— Then, down below Father Point you have lots of room; it is not like a narrow channel V A. — Yes, but you cannot haer much in a snowstorm; you cannot see anything. Hi 1 10 20 30 , — 51 - By Captain Keilley : Q — Do you think. Captain, that a new survey of the gulf is neces- sary — currents and soundiniis ? A. — Well, the fact is that the chart is only any use to us when we cannot see anything Q. — The ;^hart is very li tie use to you ? A. — I do not know that I looked at the chart once this summer, ex- ct^pt to take soundings. We know all the places up along theie; we gene- rally know what it is, but the chart of t he gulf — I do uot know I would not like to trust to what they show, very olten. Q. — Neither for currents nor soundings ? A. — In fact in the gulf we have such deep water here in the gulf that the lead is practically no use to us in (his side, because there is over one hundred fathoms of water, Q. — You find Boston, theappro.^ch to Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Delaware very readily ? A. — Yes, the American coast is very much better than this river for the lead anywhere from Cape Cod down to Long Island. If you are fifteen fathoms in the water, you are fifteen miles from shore. Q.— How about the Bay of Fundy ? A— That is the worst place in the would ; the worst part of the Bay of Fundy is that there are strong currents and if you have to follow the rule laid in ihe Bay of Fundy, you would lose your ship, and you, will not know where you are. The only thing is when you are going you have to go at full speed. We have trade several voyages up there every year and we always like to get clear of it, if we can. And further deponent saith not. J. C. HARLEY. Official Stenographer. And the above is a true and faithful trans cript of the fcvideuoe of the above witnese^-y me taken by means of stsnography, J. CHARLEY. Official stenographer. A$ hj — 52 — DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN WILLIAM SHOTTON, OF S. S. "OCEANIA." 10 Examined by Mr. ToKRAifci Q — What is your name, Captain ? A —William Shottou. Q.— How long have you been in command ? A. -Three and a half years. Q.— What is your steamer ? A. — The Oceania. Q —Where did you sail from this time, Captain ? A.— London. Q. — Did you come south ? A.— Yes. Q.— May I ask why you came in south ? A.— Because I prefer to make the passage from London— there is a difference of something like one hundred miles, but I lose that coming in •^0 fog. Q.— You think there is more fog by the Belle Isle i A,— Yes. Q —Had you much fog this time ? A. — A little of it, about three days of it. Q.— In coming south you have the sea on one side of you, you do not have to stop V A. -Yes. Q — Have you e\'er been to Belle Isle ? A.— Twice. Q _You have not had much experience on that route ? A. -No. Q.— Had you much log through last time ? A. —No log at all. Q.— It is merely a good deal what you have heard about that north rou te '? A.— Yt^s, what I have heard about the fog there and what I have ex- perienced coming across the banks, and I think I would make a better passage coming south. Q _p>om Glasgow the difference would be about two hundred and 4(1 eighty miles ? . • 80 ■% — 53 — A. --Of course if ! wunj coming fiom Glasgow I would take the risks of the straits Q. — What would you do if you got ii;to a fog ? A — I would have '^o stop. ' again. My shif) is a diiTere.ii build to the rest of them. Most of the ships have a covered in deck and this is a diilerenl thing altogether. — 58 — Q. — Have you beiMi to the Baltic ? A — Yi's. Q. — Have you ever carried a cargo of lumber Irora the Baltic ? A.— Yes. Q. — Do j'ou think it is a dang mous coming from the Baltic to England as it is to the St Lawrence '{ A. —Yes, I have como across and lost five hundred pieces in that trade. Q. — But you would not Ci>rry as large a deck load coming from the 10 Baltic as you would to here < A — Larger ; in fact I was never in a port before where there is a port warden, bar this port. (.J. —Of course you have your port line ? A. — Yes, when 1 go into any port I cannot go where I like I would get called over the coals for it. Q.-Is your ship loaded below your low line ? A. — No, the last time we had two feet to spare. And further deponent saith not. And the above is a true and faithful transcript of the evidence of the j() above named witness by me taken by means of stenography. Audi have signed. J. C. HARLEY, Ol/icial StenogKipher. DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN WILLIAM STEWART. OF THE S. S. "LAKE CHAMPLAIN" 80 4« Talkeu Oct It) 1000. Q. — What steamer do you command ? A.— The Lake Champlain. Q. — How long have you been in command of a steamer ? A. — Twenty-nine years. Q — And where hava you been principally trading? A. — Montreal. Q.— All that time ? A.— Yes. 5!) — 10 Q.- What way did you come this voyage ? A.— By BfUe Isle. Q. — Why did you come that way ? A. — Bocause the passage in shorter. Q —Do you think it is as safe as the south. A.— Yes. Q— Are the approaches to Belle Isle everything that you could desire' A. — I would like a light on the north-east end ot Belle Isle. Q. — Aud a log signal V A. — Yes sir, and a fog horn. Q. — Well, the present light is very good, I believe.wheu you see it Y A. — Yes sir, there are two lights there. Q." 0/ie above the other i A.— Yes. Q. — And you can see it a long distance'? A. — Yt's, in clear weather. Q.— Well, the light on the Newfoundland coast. Cape Bald— is that a good light ? A. — Yes sir, and a good horn. .10 Q- — Then you think that a light and a fog signal on the north-east end of the island would make the approaches very satisfactory i A. — It would be much better than it is. Q. — Would you just as soon come that way as south ? A. — Yes, there are fewer vessels aud less risk of collisions — that is my experience Q. — How about the ice ? A.— There is ice on both routes in the ice season. Q.— But there is more or less ice, there in July aud August '? A. — Yes, but you can stop. Q. — But you meet a good deal of ice there ? A — \es. Q. — How does it compare with south ? A. — There is more of it than there is south — more bergs, but the distance is shortt r that they cover. Q. — How about the fogs ? A.— I don't think there is so much log there as south. Q. — Well, alter you pa.s8 Belle Isle,the western entrance to the strait*, is that proi)erly lighted ? A -Yes ^lr it is now. Q —On both sides ? o(t — 60 — A. -Yes. Q. — After you get out of the straits and make for Heath Point, is there anything in that long stretch of about two hundred and forty miles (240) ? A. — No sir, nothing in the way. Q. — Is there liuything needed there in your opinion ? A.— A light ahont Cape Whittle I think would be a great boon. Q.— At Cape Whittle or St Mary's ? A— Yes. jQ Q. — Well, what about Heath Point, Heath Point it self, you have good soundings there ? A.— Yes. Q.— And you can go in foggy weather as well as in clear weather ? A — Yes sir. but you have to be very quick in your soundings— and not be long between casts Q. — That is take frequent soundings ? A.— Yes. Q. — What is your experience this voyage ? A. — I got set up north this voyage and if it hadn't been for frequent .m soundings, I might have come to grief for the water shallows very quick there. Q — How. often would you take soundings ? A. — As last as y' .■•;.i; ,. — 61 — lu 20 80 n A —You ciin keep clear by your load.— I don't see auy use for a light- ship off Heath Point. Q. — Would it save any lime to ha\ o a light ship there '? A —No. Q. _\Voll doesn't the current, in heading from the western entrance of the straits to Heath Point, drive you north ? A.— Sometimes, and other times it drives us south, it depends on the prevailing v\ii»d. And not so much on the vrind at the time, but on the wind thai has been prevailing. Q _1 suppose yoa are strongly in favor of the hydrographic survey there his been so much talk about ^ A. — You have to be ruled by the wind any way. Q —But you can't tell how the wind was twenty- four hours before you arrived there ' A.— No, the currents will always be an unknown quantity. Q.— Then there is no u.se having the survey continued— don't they ou the English coast pay a great deal ot attention to the tides and currents there ? A. — Yes. but tides and currents are different things. Q._Bat I -suj^pose the tide has its influence on the current i A.— lu the Gulf, suppose now, I will give you an instance. Suppose there has been a strong northerly wind for a day or so. The waters of the gull' will be set over to the south. Directly that northerly wind stops, as a rule it will blow irom the south, and back goes th'? water like a sluice. You never know what the winds have been before you get theri' going into the gulf Q— Are there warnings or information given to Captains going into the gulf for the first time of these varial>le currents ' A.— No, sir. Q.— Is it not marked on the Chart to watch out for that ? A— Yes sir, the Chart says that the currents depend on the wind. (^._\Vell, Captain, after you round Heath Point and make for South Point, is it your opinion thai you would be the better of having a buoy oU South Point ? A —No, sir. Q.— The Idaho was lost there ? A.- It they had used the lead they would have been abight— you can't >ee a buoy at night. (^.— .\ gas buoy ■? 4. - Well, if the weather is clear enough to see Heath Poiut aud South Point lijihts, there is no need for a buoy. — 62 — Q. — Aud you couldu t see the buoy if you couldn't see the lights ? A. — No, sir. Q._How about going out in the other direction.going east ? A —There is a buoy marked on the charts there off Heath Point, but tha* buoy isn't thore and never has been to iny knowledge. Q — And still it is on the chart ? A. -Yes. Q^ — After you pass South Point you make for where Y A. — Cape Magdalen. jQ Q.— What about the light at Fame Point ? A.-' It is a very good light. Q.— Is there any fog signal there ? A.— No, sir. Q. — ]jo you think there should be one ? A. — It would be none the worse of it. Q._\Vell, don't you in nine cases out of ten, particularly when going in south, make for Fame Point rather than Cape Magdalen ? A —Yes sir, going south. Q.— Therefore it is practically one of the first positions that should ■IQ have a proper light and fog signal ? A.— Yis, sir. Q — And the light there should be of the very best description ? A.— Yes, sir. Q — Is it ? A —It IS a very good light. Q — Is it a fixed light ? A.— It is with a red flash Q.— Then there is nothing to be desired except the fog signal ? A.— No sir, if the weather is clear enough to see the light the light is j^(j good enough. Q.— And you then make for Cape Magdelen ? A.— Yes. Q.— In the summer time you make Cape Magdalen rather than Fame Point ? A —Yes. Q —Is there a good light at Cape Magdalen ? A. — Yes sir, and a good fog horn. Q — You dont think that could be improved ? A. -No.sir. Q. — And then comes what ? 4U ^ . "ff 10 :0 80 4U — «8 — A — Muitin KiviT, Cape Chalte, M ituiio Mt'tis and Father Toiut. Q. — Is there anything desirable at any of thuHO Points V A— There is a rocket signal at Cape Chatte and »othiir'|^^M|b|^/«' lin Uiver. Q.— Don'l you think where there is a light there thould be a fug signal ? A. -Certainly. Q — Do you think there ought to be any additional lights between Fame Point and Fallier Point ? A —I don't think it would be necessary. If the weather is olear you can always see one light before you loose siglit ot the other The longes! disiant;e between lights there is thirty-lhe aiiits/and you can generally see one light just about the lime you .ire loosing sight of the other. Q — Is that about the distance between lights on the English Chan- nel, or are the lights raucji e.ln,»ttr^.^«^ • -'^ A. — or course the caost is much more rugged. Q.— What about that buoy otT Mataiie ? A — It is abright enough for ships going into an anchor. Q. — liut Ather t-hips have no business there ? A —No, a steamer should keep ouside that buoy, and 1 suppose nearly atl steamers keep out. Q. — You don't sound up there V A. — U you want to. Q. — Would you in thirk weather ? A. — Yes. sir. Q. — Even if you are sure of the position ? A. — Yes sir, it is the man who is sure of his position who comes to grief. Q. — Is the light at Father Point abright ? A. — Yes sir, a very good light. Q. — What about the fog signal -supposing you were coming south you would make for Cape Race ? A. -Yes. Q. — That is a revolving light ? A.— Yes sir, a revolving white light. Q. — And 1 suppose a fog signal too ? A. — Yes sir, there is a good fog sigal. t.J — And what is your next point after that i" A. — Cape Pine. Q.— What about that ? •i'? «!4 1(1 20 £(1 4) A.— That i8 u good light. It in pretty high up in th« air, very efteii i'livelopt'd ill fog. Q — In thert' no log nignal th-re ? A. — No, sir. Q. — Is one desirahlo there ? A. — Yes. it would be belter. Q.- You siiy it would be bi'tler ? A— Yes, lor you art* pretty well oft' Cape Pine and there lire good soundings there. Q — I think it is quite evident that you are of the old fashion (Jap- tains who is not ;ilroid to use the lead ? A — No, you don't have to turn a corner at Cape Pine as you do at Cape Kat'f. You are coming along from 8t Pierre and you haul up north, and very often a westerly current sets in from the eastward.aiid a man is likely to liuul up too .soon, thiiikiny he is past the Cape, and ther«foro the log horn comes in ihi'ii. Q. — It is more u.seful in the outward than iu the inward passage ? A.— Yes. Q. — You Hiid that there is a dangerous drift th(>re ? A. — No sir, we allow lor the drift, we know there i.x a westerly Jur- rent and we allow for that and coming up from Halifax, the variation in- creases very rapidly, and the man is apt sometimes to set his course iu one part of the Chart, and he doesn't allow for the increase in variation. Q — Well alter you pass the Cape Pine, the next is Cape St Mary ? A. — Yes. Q — Is there anything wanted there ? A.— That is a way out of our way. Q. — Where do you co next V A — We go past Gallantry head of St Pierre. Q. — Are there good lights there ? A. —Yes. Q.- You say the French lights are good Y A.— Yes. Q. — ;\nd where next ? A. — There are lots of lights around St Pierre. Q — Where do you go next — Bird Rocks ? A. — No sir, 10 Miqueloii. Platte Point. Q — Do you always keep near Miquelon in coming south ? A. — Yes, pretty near, when it is clear. Q. — Do you generally make these lights ^ *. - _^ — 65 10 A. — Yes sir — goiug by Cape Race we pass about five Ediles off in clear weather Q. — What about the revolvinju light on Cape Ray ? • A. — Ciipe Kay is a good light, Q. — It revolves.doesn't it ? A.— Yes sir. it is a flnsh light. Q. — And there is a fog horn ? A -Yes. Q. — A good one ? A. — I never heard it. Q.— You don't depend on it ? A — I like to give it a wide berth if the weather is thick, I like to keep out of the sound of it. Q. — Do you ever check the regularity of the flash sigual of lights as you pass them V A — Yes, sir Q. — And if anything was wrong you would uot'ce it ? A. — Yes sir, and report Q — You always log it or how would you report it ? ^y A. — 1 would report it to ycu if the light was not going or if there was something radically wron.T about it Q. — Are there good soundings there coming in south ? A. — Not at Cape Itay. We are very close iu before we get soundings. Q.— What about Port Basque ? A.— There is a light there too. Cape Ray is our leading light, and these others are mostly harbor lights for the fishermen. Q. — Cape Rare and Cape Ray arc the leading lights coming in from the South '( A — Yes,wilh the lights on St Pierre. 80 4U Q. — Can you recommend any improvement on the fog whistle at Cape Ray ? A. — There '\y a good signal there. Q. — You haven't heard it often, you say ? A. — I kept away. Q. — Have you anything to say about the pilots between Father Poi it and Quebec V A. — No, b\Y ure them V A. — The fog is just as dangerous as the snow storm. Q. — The danger is abont the same V A. — Yes, for a steamer, but not for a sailing ship Q. — Which is more dangerous for a sailing .ship ? A.— The snow of course ; it fills the blocks up, and you can't do any- thing. Q. — In November, the early part of December, and in March and April, you have snow storms in the English channel too ? A.— Yes. Q.— Just as bad as in the Gulf here ? A.— Hardly ! ! ! Q.— Now, referring to the entrance to the Straits of Belle-Isle from the Gulf, you express satisfaction with the lights recently put there ; do you think there are *>ufRcient log signals, and if not where v-'ould you have the additional ones ? A. — I don't thing they are necessary. Q — 1 mean entering the straits from the Western end, from the Gulf, going l'>a.*t ? A.- There is a good fog signol on Greenby Island, and one on Point d'Amour. <,» — Do you ( on^id^ r it necessary to have one at Flower Island ? A. — It would be a good job. for you might get set South out of the I I sound of other ones. ;ju — 67 - Q.— And you think it would be well ? A.— Yes. EXAMINKD BY Mr CamPBKLL. 10 20 30 4.) Q. — How do the lights compare with the lights on the American coast ? A. — They are very good lights here. Q. — Are the Canadian lights much inferior ? A. — It depends on where you are situated. Going into the American coast a gnat number of the lights are very powerful lights. Q — And how do they compare with the British lights V A.— They are better. There is nothing better than the American lights. Q. — Are the French lights at St Pierre and Miquelou better tnan the lights on C"ape Race ? A. 1 don't think there is any difference. Q. — What is the fog signal on Father Point V A. — It is a gun rocket now. Q. — A gun-oottou rocket Y A— Yes. Q. - How often it is fired ? A. — Every twenty minutes, and in answer to any ship's signal. Q. — Is that a long or a short interval ? A. — It is a long, but they will answer you if they hear your horn, Q.— But the bomb is only I'ired every twenty minutes, you say ? A — 1 think so. Q.— Don't you think that interval is too long i A — Yhs. Q.— Would you recommend a better signal than a bomb, wouldn't a ."•iren be belter ? A. — 1 dou'tkiiow; there are so mnny steamers there whistling for pilots. Q. — But you could have a sirtn with distinctve blast — wouldn't that be better than a gun ? A. — Yes sir. it would be better. Q. — It would be an improvement ? » A.— Yes. Q. — And it should be sounded at very frequen* intervals ^ A. -Yes. y.— And you would recommend that at Father Point ? — 68 — m A. -Yes. 10 Examined by the Chiirman. Q —There has been a new light put in at Travtrs ? A.— Yes. Q.— Is that a good light ? A. -Yes. Q^_"Would you make any suggestion as to that light ? A.— No, Sir. Q.— You wouldn't mibd faking a steamer up there yourself ? A.— No, but I don't want to if there are pilots to be haU. Q.— How about the leading lights entering Quebec V A. — They are very dim. Q — You want a powerful light there f j^._1'he two red lights there in a line are very poor. These are the lights to enter into Quebec Harbor ? Q.— Going from Quebec outward, you want a liglit on the Island of Orleans ? A. — Yt>. There is nothing till you see St. Lawrence Point. It is -'•' not Ions; bince a vessel attempted to make the passage between Orleans island and the North shore. Q __Por want of a leading light on the West end of Orleans Island ? A— Y'es. Q —Where should that light be ? A. -On the West end ol the Island of Orleans. Examined by Mb Reilley. Q.— Have you navigated the Chesapeake fiom St Ixjuis to Delaware 80 Have you come into Nt-w York or Baltimore oi Philadelphia the last few year- V A. -Yes. Q— Didn't you find the navigation of this water much safer than the St. I, aw re nee ? A— There is less of it. The distance is shorter. The St Lawrenct- is all nuh' with care. Q .—13, osn't It need more care in the St. Lawrence ? A. — No, sir. It requires care everywhere. (^. — l.sn'i it easi.>r to approach thet-e places with the lead ? ^y A.— You can go here with the lead. 10 — 69 -- Q -Isn't it easier there ? A. — The distance is much shorter of course. And further deponent saith not. A. W. G. MACALISTER. Official Stenographer . l,the undersigned, A lex W.Gr.Macalister.Official Stenographer.do here- by declare that the foregoing pages are and contain a true and faithful transcript of tht> evidence given in this matter of Captain Macdonald, on the 16th day of Oct. 19U0. A. W. G. MACALISTER. m DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN WILLIAM S. MAIN, OF THE S. S. "NUMIDIAN." 20 8(1 4 1 Taken the 16th of October, 1900. Examined by the Chairman. Q.— Whai steamer do you commend ? A. — The Numidian. Q —How long have you been in command ? A. — 17 years. Q.— Where have you been principally trading ? A. — To this port tor 27 years more or less. Q — As an officer ' A.— Yes sir, with the Allan Line, I have been 27 years with them. Q. — Where did you sail from this voyage ? A. — Liverpool. Q —By which route dil you come ? A —The Belle Isle route. Q. — Why did you come that way ? A. —Well, it is shorter and saler than the Cape Race route.— There is clearer weather there. Q —But you meet more ice ? A —You meet ice anywhere more or less You have less extent to meet up there. Q.— And make better weather usually up there 'i A.— Yes. w^ i j ■; 70 It* Q. — IIiivi' you any Huuiidiiiga in or uc/ir the approach to Helle Islo ? A. — Ytfs sir, there is a v»'ry Fair bank up th''rt' about thirty miles from IK'llo Isle light houNiv If you i;ointnfiico souudiuj; in time you can generally get through. Q — Do you think the island is piop^'rly supplied with lightH and lug signals V A. — Well, the way the fog gets on the top of the island, and lays so high I hat it doesn't give the !i'4hts a proper chance to show itself, and on it going down you can't see the liglit at all, unless it is clear weather. 10 t end of Uelle Isle ? A — I think I Would put it on the South end, and put another light there. — I would put the powerful light on the South end. You don't need a fixed light there They are no good in the og. You want a good Hashing light at the South part. Q — Haven't you a good liiiht there now V A — Only a fixed light, and it gets hidden, but a group Hash light seems to have power to j-how itself. Q. — You want a Hash light where the present light is ? A. -Yes. 80 ^' — ^"*^ '^ fixed light on the North- East end ? A.— Yes. Q.— And a siren V A. — Yes, sir, every place where there is a light there should be a fog Q. - Well, is Cape Bald properly lighted ? A. — Yes sir. I heard the log signal eleven miles off Cape Bald this time Cape Bald is very good. Q. — Whi'U you get to the Western entrance of the straits, are the lights there satisfactory ? . A. — Yes sir, that is a beautiful thing at Flower Island, but you want a fog signal. - tl - Q. — Hut the tiittraiu-o at Point Amour V A.-Y.'8. Q. — And th« oiu» on the other side ? A — Kl'iwer Island — they aro nil right Q. — Alter you get out of lielle Isle you have a distance of about :i40 miles to run Y A —Yes. Q. — Hiivo you any liylils there ? A. — I'oint Rieh— there is a light there. ^ — 'I'hat is where most ot th« 10 accidents occur. Most people steer straight from Point Amour to Auti- losti, but we generally go in u little angle to Point Rich keeping so, about I 40 mill's, and then the other 100 miles steer in a west course, and it will land you safe near Heath I'oint. Well south of it Q. — Do you do that under special instructions '* A.— No sir, that is our training under the Caphiins I have beea with and keeping the lead going The great thing is the lead. We sound all the time. a very safe thing to have a light-dhip there. Now there is something I noticed in rounding Heath Point this time, and that was discolored water.and we rounded the point foui miles off, and I !it is right in your track— .and you i an go along as confidently as if you saw it, and only by attending to the soundings. There is no trouble but a matter of soundings. It is carelessness, and carefulness, the two words Examined by Mr Bond. fog eignals '? .. , , , n nu u. A -Yes th*'n< are foR sitfiiaU on Capo Mu?(1->1.mi and fape Chatte, Q.-I)„ you not think it slrang.* then- should b»> si^aal.s there and not on Fame Point ? 4._.Yes sir. Fame Point is the first place wo make. Q —How about Father Point, is there a good light there ? A.-Yes, there is a good light, hut you ean't see it very far. You can si'e it far enough though, jy (l—\\ is a revolving light i A— Yt>s, sir, you can see it far enough. Q _How far can you see it ? A.-12 miles, I suppose, but from the brig.- of a steamer you could set> it 1;') miles. Q. — Are there good soundings there ? A —Yes Q.- Suppose you are coming in by Belle Isle, there are two lights on the islmid. A.— Yes. Cj.—One below and one above ? A.-Yes. Q— About the middle of the island 1 A —No sir, on the South-West corner. Q__Weli, suppose you iire apprna.:hiiig th.' island from the North you have no light on the Northern Point ? A.— No, sir. Q.— Do you think a light there would bean improvement ? A.-Yes. Q.— And a fog signal too ? . ,• . A.-Yes, I think there ought to be one there. You can t see the light at all if you are a eouple of miles North of your course. Q.— Have you ever had any trouble there ? A.— Yes sir, with fog 1 was kept outside thero. Q „\Vhi!t did you do ? A— I 'topped and steamed to the Eastward again. Q -Is there a good light of Cape Bald on the Labrado Coast ? X.—Yes sir; that is a good light. Q.— And a good fog signal i , .. • A -Yes sir, but you can't see that light in time to clear anything on Belle Isle, on the North-East corner of Belle Isle-You can't see it far 10 ao n enough. ki. 70 Q. — Not far enough for that purpose ? A. — No, sir. Q. — Wh(Mi you go through the straits, is the lighting at the Western end all right ? A. — Yes, sir. Q. — "When did you last pass through there Y A. — Last September twelve months. Q. — Have you any suggestion to make as to the lights b((tween the Western end of Uelle Isle and Heath Point ? 10 A. — Yes, I think there should be a light there at Macoatina. Q.— At St. Mary's ' A. — Yes sir, about there it would be good, or here at Cape Whittle. Q— Which do you think would be the better ? A,— Well, I think St. Mary's would be the b«st. Q. — When you get to Heath Point -Have you any suggestion to make there - There are good soundings V A. -Yes. Q. — And a fog signal o?i Heath Point ? A. -Yes. JO (^. — Is the light good there ? A.— Yes. Q.— How far off can you sv'e that light ? A. — I forget exititly, but th" lights are good enough when the wea- ther is clear. The only thing is l.t get the weather clear to see tiieui. Q. — How often do you think the fog signal should be fired ?--lJo you ihink every "JO minutes enough ? A. — No sir, i should tiiink every .'i minutes. Q — Yon don't think there is ai;y trouble in juvigating the St Law- rence if you use the lead properly aiu? often enough ? ;}() A.— The lead is no use in St. Lawrence. There is .m— ()f (,'ourse around the cornt^rs it is all right, eKiept (!apeliay. Q, — In the approaches to the St. Lawrence you can use the lead .' A.— Yes. Q — What other ports of the world have you traded in '? A. — I have been running to Boston since ISO'2. Q. — Ts it easier to get into Hoslon than Montreal ? A — Yes sir, a great deal. q -Why . A — Because the nayigation is easier. You haven't so many cornem to turn. 80 20 Q. — Isn't there a good deal of turuing going up the english channel ? A. — Yes sir. that is a different thing entiiely going to Boston you make the port right from the sea. Q. — When you go up the Irish channel going to Liverpool from the South, there are some pretty dangerous places there ? A. — Yes sir, just as there are everywhere else. Q. — How do you avoid them ? A. — By using the lead. Q. — And by care ? 10 A.— Yes. Q. — Wouldn't the same apply to the St. Lawrence ? A. — Yes sir, the same thing. Examined bt Mr. Bond. Q. — How long does it take you to get into Boston Harbor from the time you sight land ? A. — About three hours. Q. — And from the time you sight Cape Race how long does it take you to get into the port of Montreal i A. —Well, to Quebec it is G5 hours. 01 course it all depends on the speed of the ship. Q. — Well, the ordinary run from Cape Race to Quebec ? A. — We do it in from Go to 7ii hours. Q. — Well, as comparing three hours to Go hours, there would be so many additional dangers would't (here ? A. — Yes, 1 should think there would be. EX.A.MINED I5Y THE CHAIRMAN. Q. — Is it not fact that some Bosiuu ships have been lost on Cape Race? A. — Yes sir, there was one last year. Q. — How was she lost ? A.— She got North other reckoning and went ashore. Q. — How did she get there ? A.— The current,! suppose. Q. — Had she a captain on board ? A.— Yes. Q. — What was he doing ? A. — I don't know — I wasn't there. Q. — If she had been properly looked after she would not have been there ? ■* ' A. — Yes sir, she might be there. 80 — 81 — Q. — If she had been properly directed she would uot be there V A. — Very often you cau't help it. These things happen and you can't help it. — The compass might go wrong for one thing. Q.— When you leave Leverpool for Boslou.do you steer for Cape Race' A. — That all depends on the Captain of ship, and whether he wants to go there or South of the Virgins. EXAMINKD BY Mr. BoND. Q. — Do you find the leading lights to make the Port of Quebec satis- factory ? 10 A. — Yes sir, sati.«fac'tory enough. Q. — There is nothing to complain of there ? A.— No, sir. Q. — Passing the island of Orleans, do you find the leading lights to bring you into the Port of Quebec satisfactory i A. — Yes sir, I do. Q. — And the same way going out from the Port of Quebec V A. -Yes. Q.— There is nothing to complain of? A. — Nothing, sir. :0 Q — What time do you find snow storms in the Gulf? A. — Well, I couldn't tell you that. I haven't been running often enough in the B'all. This is my first voyage in the Fall. Q. — Would you fear a snow storm as much or more than a fog ? A. —I would rather have a snow storm than a fog. I would clear up soou'T I would expect. Q. — In approaching or leaving the Port of Montreal and passing Isle Ii'ond, do you think navigation would be helped by having any addi- tional buoys ? A. — There are no buoys there at all. ;3() Q- — Would it be better lo have some ? A. — It might be better right on the corner, to sh>)W the depth of water, but you cau't put many buoys there on account of the navigation of the small craft. Examined liv Captain Rii.ky. Q. — In leaving Quebec, what light do you look for to take you around Point Levis, to get Orleans I.-roinh thero ? A.- Yes sir, we have good boundings there. Q. — You have oonie that way, of course ? A. — Yes sir, often. Q.— Have you no sugge.stion to make as to any impro^-ements in the lights or log signals on the Newfoundlmd Coast ? Cape Pine, for instance? A— There should be a fog .signil on Cap.' Pine. 10 Q. — And how about Cape Ray ? A.— The light might be improved. Q —What sort off. log signal is there ? A.— It is a fog trumpet And it is hard to tell whether it is a good one or not, for sometimes you hear it eleerly a long w.iy olf, and at oilier times it is quite inaudible. Q.— Have you any suggestion to make ? \ —No sir. I don't think it could be improved ; I think it is on ac- count of the differenl states of the atmosphere. But I think there should be a powerful fog signal on Cape Pine, for the current sets to the North ■>0 West, and ci;tehing the S arboard bow, shove.; the ship in there. Q.— And after you pass Cape liay, you make for Fame Point ? A.— Yes sir, right off to the Bird Rock. Examined hy Mr. Bond. Q — In your opinion, are Hash lights better than fixed lights ? A. — Yes, sir. Q.— Are they better than revolving lights ? A. -Yes. Q —Is there often, particularly in the upper St. Lawrence, a tendency •'" to mistake a high power light on a ship or on shore for a fixed light ? A. —Yes sir, often —It is very hart. Q. — And then you have Cape Chatte ? A.— Yes sir. and these light-houses - I think there should be a distiiipui.shiug mark on them ; they are white mostly, with a ^ ^ black band, and you cun't pick them up in the snow. They are more farm house than anything else. more small like a ^, IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) // ^^ %^ w /a 1.0 I.I ■^1^ 12.5 |5o ■■" im^s S ^ IS ^ li£ 12.0 1.25 ■ 1.4 IM 1.6 V] /a / .%>> .%.<^ '^:=^' *^"> > 'V '^' J m V m A V \\ ^ no Q.— You would advise clearly distiugaishing dity marks ? A. — Yes sir, ou the light houses. Q. — Then you have Matane and Metis ? A. — Yes, a very good light. Q. — Bui no log signal ? A.— No sir, and there ought to be one there. Q. — And then you come to Father Point, what do you say to that ? A. — Father Point light is a very good light; but the fog signal is no good. It is a gun, and there ought lo be a powerful siren at Father Point. 10 Q. —What have you to say as to the route between Father Point and Quebec ? A. — It requires very careful navigation. Q. — You depend there on the pilot ? A. — Yes sir, a great deal. They are supposed to know the channel better than we are. Q. — Do you think you could take a ship up yourself if you had no pilot ? A. -I think loould, but I wouldn't care about ii. Q.— Don't the Men of War always come up under their own naviga- ^0 ting lieutenants ? A. — I think they bring a pilot too. Q. — You find the pilots a great help ? A. — Yes, Sir, there is no doubt about, that. Q. — Have you anything to suggest about the Southern route, by Ca- pe Race ? A. — Well, there is a gun on the bird rocks vrhich I hink should be altered to a siren. Q. — Is Cape Race all right ? A. — Yes (*ir, there is a good fog signal there and a good light. Q. — After you pass there, where do you go ? A. — To Cape Pine — Gallantry Head, there is a splendid light there Q.— A good light on Cape Pine ? A -Yes. Q. — A fog signal too '? A. — No sir. I don't think po. Q.— I'o you think there should be one / A. — Yes sir. i don't think there is one there, and I think there ought to be. Q.— Gallantry Head is a good light— That is on St Pierre t A.— Yep. Q. — The French lights as a rule are good ? 80 4A( 10 2f - 93 — A. — Yes sir, first class lights. Q. -Well, what about Cape Ray i A.— A pretty fair light, aud there is a fog signal on it too Q— After you pass the Cape Ray, what poiut do you make for i A. -The Bird Rocks. Q. — Have you any suggestion to make there ? A —The Fog signal should be changed from a gun to a siren. Q- — After you pass the Bird Rocks ? A. — Then it is Fame Point again. Examined by Mr Vennkls : Q. — What soft of weather had you this voyage ? A. — A very stormy passage. Q. — Any snow ? A.-- One small snow-storm Q.— How long did it detain yon ? A. — It didn't detain us at all ; we never slowed down at all. Q. — Where was that ? A.— Off Fame Point. Q.— What experience have you had in the St Lawrence ? A. — 13 yeais altogether— Nine years a« master. Examined by Mr Bond : Q — How would you compare the danger of a fog or a suowstorni ? A.— I think one is as bad as the other, but of coarse under different circumstances. A snow-storm is nothing .is long as you are not clo.se to the land, and it doesn't last as long as a fog. Q.— But if you were in narrow waters '{ 80 A.— I would rather be in a tog than a snowstorm in narrow waters Examined by Captain Riley : Q.— As a matter of fact, coming to the Westward, do you not make the Northern part of Belle Isle more frequently than the Southern part ? A.— Yes. We always make the North part of the Inland first, going on the Northern route. Q.— Are the soundings good approaching Belle Isle ? A. — No. Q— What is the shortest interval at which you think fog signals should be sounded ? IP- — 94 — A. — About every two miuuies. Q. — Have you been close to Heath Toint, going to Westward ? A. -Yes. Q.— How did you find the e-ouudings ? A.— All right ? Q— Irregular— Did you find 17 fathoms oiio minute, and the next minute 85 fathoms ? A. — Yes sir, the soundings are irregular. Q.— Have you ever gone to Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York or 10 Boston ? A. — Yes sir, all of them. Q— How do you find Iho soundings approaching these ports 'f A. — Better than here. Q.— Now, what about appi-oaching Quebec— In coming to the West- ward, leaving Orleans Island, supposin you had no pilot on b )ard, if hr had fallen off the bridge or something like that, what leading lights have you to take you up to the warf in Quebec ? A. — The leadinjT lights are not very good* Q. — Whit would you recommend ? :0 A.— I would drop the anchor till daylight, if anything happened to the pilot. Q.— Ilavi' you anything to recommend in the way of leading lights ? A.— No, I have never hud any trouble in getting through, at all hours of the night. Q.— With a pilot ? A.— Yes. Q.— But suppo.sing you didn't have a pilot— supposing that he fell off the bridge for example, there is nothing for it, but just to let go your anchor ? ;{0 A. — If I was at Orleans Island, I could take a ship into Quebec with the lights there now Q.— What aids to navigation would you suggest between Quebec and Montreal ? A— Well, I don't think gas buoys would do much good any more than there are luw. There are gas-buoys now. But I think some of the chHunels could be improved by being dredged a litth» wider. Q —Do you think you could navigate any of the lower reaches of the Upper St. Lawrence, if it was belter buoyed at night ? A.— I don't think it, 4U — i)5 - Examined by Mh Keford : 1« 30 Q. — How about yonr charls— iiro they up to ilato for the lovvor Gulf? Are the surA'eys all rcriMit ? A.— Well, they have issued some uew charts since the la«t survey, and they are very good Q. — When is the last survey, accordinij to your charts ? A. — Two years ago. Q. — Was that a survey of the whole St. Lawrence ? A.— No.— Just Belle Isle. Q. — Is it required to survey the whole St. Lawrence f A. — I think the lower Gulf ought to be surveyed a little more, and fresh charts provided. I have found thi^ sounditigs on my charts different altogether from what I have got them — down on the Southern route. Q. — And that shows that the charts are not correct ? A. — Yer sir, they are not correct in the depth of water. Q. — And they require to be re-surveyed ? A.— Yes. Q. — is there any trouble in getting a pilot at Father Point V A. — Not as a rule. CJ. — You never had any trouble in getting one ? A. — No sir, not at Father Point. — I hare always got one. And further deponent saith not. A. W G. MACALISTKR, Official Stenographer I, the undersigned, A. W. G. Macalister, (Official Stenographer), he- reby declare that the foregoing pages are a true and faithful transcript of the evidence given in this matter by captain Macdonald by me taken in stenography, the Itith day of October, 1!'00. Aud I have signed. A. W G. MACALISTER. 4D — yo — DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN ALEXANDEK FEIIRLS, OF THE STEAMSHIP "LAUNE". ^1 10 •JO 80 4.0 Taken the liiJrd day of October I'.ioo. Examined bv Mr Campbell, who took the chaiu in thi ABSKNCE OF Mil ToRRANCE : Q — How many years havt» you be»>n in command V A. — I first took charyo in 1872. Q — How many years have you beeen coming to the St. Lawrence ? A. — This is only the second year in a steamer I was in the trade for some time in sailijig ships a imraher of years ajjo. Q. —How did you come this trip ■? A. — The Southern route. Q. — In approaching the St Lavvrence by the Cape Race route, have you any suggestions to make for the improvement of the same ' A.— Well, I can't remembjr what these lights are as I go down, but I keep my chart when I am navigating. But I can't tell you the diffe- rence in the lights wi'hout my book of instructions, and I follow it up a>« 1 pass in the ship. Q — Well, the first light is Cape Race ? A.— Yes. Q. — What kind of weather did you have this voyage ? A. — It was clear past there, Q.— What is your experience with the Southern route. Is it prefera- ble to the Northern ? A. — Well, I prefer it in some seasons — I drefer it in the Spring season, but in the Fall I prefer the Northern route. Q.— How is the ice in comparison with the North on the Southern route — Do you see more ice ? A. — In the Spring Belle Isle is usually full. . Q. — But in the months of July and August ? A —Well, I don't believe in going by the Straits before the month oi July. Q.— You usually go through the S'raits in July ? A. -Yes. Q— Dt) you think there is more ice to the South than to the North ? A. — No, iheie is more to the North early in the season. Q. — It doesn't extend so far, does it ? K — UT — 19 29 oO 4D A.— It muRt come from tho North bcfort' reaching iho South. Q. — but the oxtt'usioii ol' ice on tho North is not as groat us ou the South V A. — Yos sir, I hiive found it more so according to the season Q. — How is this light on Capo Race ? A. — A fairly good light. Q. — What about tho fog signal there f A. — I uovor heard it — It was tloar when I passed there. I may have hoard it some years ago, but I don't reraembor. Q.— What about the light on Capo Pino ? A. — It Koems to bo a fairly good light. Q.— Is there a fog signal there ? A. — I boliove not. Q.— You didn't hoar it this time ? A. -No Q.— That light on Cape St Mary, do you make that at all ? A. — No, I have not seen thit, I steered for Flint Island light from Ca- pe Pine. Q.— Did you make St Pierre this time ? A. — No, sir. Q. — You didn't see tho Freuoh lights at all V A.— No sir. Just tho loom of tho la>id, but didn't pick up anything. Q. — What about Capo Kay — Did you make it ? A. — Wo didn't see tho land at all. I oalled at Sydney for coal, and camo up between St. Paul's and Cape Breton. Q. — Can you make any suggestion as to any of tho lights on Cape Breton ? A.— Flint Island light is supposed to be a flash light, and I couldn,t make anything but a steady li^ht out of it. (j —Can you make any other suggestions there ? A. --No. Q.— What about the Bird Rocks ? A — I think that is a fairly good light, and I think the gun is a good fog signal too, if they keep it going. Q. — It is a gun there V A. — Yos, 1 think so. I had occasion in the spring to go in there and pick it up. Q. — You didn't have to pick it up this trip ? A. — I wont close to it, but it was in a snow-storm. Q. — What was the first point you made — Point Rosier or Fame Point ? A. — 1 got a North- Fast Gale, and ran the ship over ou the Anticosti — 98 — Coast — in the Ite of the Anticosti Coast, and piokod up the South-West Point. Q. — How do you find the soundings in the Cl-uli V A.-Notviry coriect in the Gull", but outside the Q-ulf they are pretty correct. Q. — II(jw do the soundings in the Oulf compare with thu charts Y A — Around thf Bird Rocks thi-y arc right enough Q. — But when you get up past Fame I'oint ? A. — 1 never did try the soundings there. 1 always had cliiar wheat- 10 her there, but I see it is laid down on the chart that you are close on the shore before you get soundings Q. — Would you make any suggestions regarding the lights between Fame Point and Father Point V A. — I should say there should he stronger lights there. Th'y are rery poor lights. Q. — And where there is a light you would advist! a very powerful fog signal V A. — Either a whistle, a siren or a gun. Q. — And there should be a distinction made in marking so many '20 different jdaces ? A. -Yes Q.— That cuuld he done with a sireu, by varying the merab-ro! blasts ? A.— Yes. Q— In your experience a guti is not as g )nfl as a p twerlul siren or fog whistle, is it y A. — It is more distinct. i.}. — A gun ? A.— Yes. iO Q — Have you ever had any trouble in picking up F'ltlicr Point f A — 1 picked it up this time at ten o'clock at night, and didn't get a pilot till eiyht o'clock in the morning Q.— What was the trouble ? A. — There WHS a fresh breeze — a very cold fresh breeze Irom the North-East right on the shore, and I waited a couple of hours and then I held the ship off tlie Coast again, an . in the morning 1 asked the pilot what was the milter, and they said they 'lidn't see my lights, and I had burned them al)oul two hours, and then hauled the ship off thf (Joast again and tiien tin- pilots said they didn't see th« ship -they never saw my 4 , lights. (I —Did you signal the different stations coming up ? i. i — 99 — ^u A. — No sir, I hauled across from Auticosti. i didn't signal, ouly at Mataue. Q. — Did they answer your signal ? A.. — No sir.it was sun---down when 1 ran the numbers up, and I don't know wheiht>r they got the numbers or not. Q. — Was it cK'.^r when you were waiting for the pilot Y A. — There were showers during theuight. Q— What day was that V A. — I think it was Thursday night. I arrived hero ou Saturday— I jQ think thai was Thursday night — I think it was Friday moraing I go" the pilot. Q. — The pilot was there waiting for you \ A. — Yes sir, he was there, I believe. — There is another thing — At these light houses there should be a better day-mark, lor it is hard to pick them up in a snow-storm. They get corered with snow, and there ought to be some difference in the marks. Q —They are practically all the same ? A. — Well, some of them have two bands, and some one, and some of them have stripes up and down, and if you have a North East gale, the snow will (lestroy that mark, and you don't know what light-house it is Q.— What sort of di^tingui>hing mark would you suggest V A. — U they had the light houses different shapes Q. — Is that the way they are at other places ? A —No, they are mostly distinguished with bands. Q. — Then they have merely lollowed the custom V A. — Yes sir, and the colors. — Some are white and some grey, and some partly red, and bla-.rk Q. — Well, between Father Point and Quebec, did you have any trouble coming np '. A. — N^. sir. — I can't tell you anything more about that part of the river. I depend on my pilot to bring me up there, by watching him. Q. — Have you anything to suggest in the way of lights and buoys be; ween Father Point and Quebec ? A. -No. Q. — Between Quebec and Montreal ? A. — No, sir. Q— Do you think a pilot woiild know better than yourself what is needed between here and Quebec ? A. — Yes, the pilots are the ones to tell you that. Q— In approaching by the Northerner Belle Isle roule, have you 40 any suggestions to make for the improvement of the same Y 80 m — 100 — A.— No. Q. — About this light on Helie Isle, would you advise a light beiug placed on the Northern part of the Island ? A. — Yes, it would be belter. Q. — The light that is there now is a very good light, is it not ? A. — Fairly good. Q. — What is Ih" nei'- point you make after passing there ? A. — I geu. rally keep up the centre of the Straits to Cape Norman. Q. — How is the light there V 10 A.— Well, it is day-light. I don't know anything about the light.s — I never saw them. Q. — Would you suggest any more lights in the Straits ? A.- There ought to be a light on St Marys Island there. Q.— St. Marys Island or Cape Whittle ? A.— St. Mary's Inland Q. — What point do make after that ? A. — Anticosti— Heath Point. Q. — Any suggf'stion to make regarding the lights on Heath Point V A. — No, if there was » light-shii) placed off there it would be belter, 20 lor you wonldu't run the risk of getting too close to the shoro. Q. — The soundings are good there ? A — Fairly good, yes. Q. — What is the next point ? A — Well, I would then make Cape Rosier or Fame Point. Q.— Not South Point ? A . — No, not if I had fine weather ; if I had a Norlh-Uiast gale I would go up and make South- West Point Q — How is the light there V A.— A fairly good light -I have seen that. ;50 Q- — 1^^ y*^" think it would be any improvement to place a ligh between South-West Point and South Point ? A. — No, I don't know that it would. Q. — Do you think a new hydrographic survey of the G-ulf would be good ? A. — I do Q — What is your experience of the currents of the Gull ' A — I cant say anything about the currents. — I know there is a freshet down, and that is all I know about it. Q. - Would you suggest a fog horn or siren wherever there is a light ! 4 J A. — Yes sir, and a difference in them all. — lUi — Q.— How do you find thu lights on the St. LawreiKie iii (.omparisou with the Americau lights or the lights in the Uiitish chauuei V A. — Very poor. Q — That is to say, they don't show fur enough ? A.— No, sir. Q — Hut in the St. Lawrence, they don't have to show very far ( A.— But you don't want to be scratching the shore all the way. Q.— You have seen the lights on St Pierre and Miquelon— How do these French lights compare with the Canadian lights V 10 A.— I haven't seen those lights at all. Examined by Captain Rii.ey : Q.— I would like to a-k your opinion. Captain, about Cape Pine.what would you suggest there ? A.— Well, it would require a po\verfHl light, and there should be a fog signal at all lights on this coast. Q.— What is the shortest interval at which you think lor signal^ should be sounded ? A. — About every two minutes. Q. — What short of tog signal would you recommend ? A.— I be,' your pardon. I thoui?ht it was the signal on boiird ship that you referred to ;— You mean the signal at the light-houses ? 1 should say 20 minutes was too long- -I should say ten or five minutes ab( ut the ri"ht time, Q- What short of fog signal would you recommend as being the best ? A.— W. 11, I consider a guu is as distinct a fog signal as we have. Q —What kind of lights do you recommend ? A.— A fixed light is a good light 'Very often you cau't depend on a ^^ flash light. An intermittent is a very good liyht. l^.— Which is the best light ? A.— A fixed light, Q — But in narrow waters where you have lots of lights around you? A —Well, lli.it is ditr.'rent, a flash light would be the best in narrow waters. Q.— Coming around to the We.>^tward on the circle, what part of Belle Isle do you make most frequently— The North or the South '^ A.— South. Q— .Are the soundiusis any good approaching Belle Isle ? ^^ A. — I never took any there. I always had clear weattier. — lOli — m 10 30 Q.— Do you find the soundings on your chart tht; same as you get from actual work on your ship V A.— Outside the (Julf Q.- But inside the Gulf? A. — Not always. Q — Do you find the currents o)i the Chart the same as in actual na- vigation ? A.— No, I do not. I mostly find the currents settin,' to the Eastward, Q.— You have been to Ualiimore, Philadelphia and Now York V A.- Yes. Q. — How do you find the navigation approaching these ports ? A. — Very good. Q- — Very simple ? A. — Yes sir, 1 think so. Q.— How would yon compare the daugttr of approaching the Gulf of St Lawrence, and the jjoit.s on the American sea- board f —How does the navigation to Baltimore, I'hiladt^lphia or New York eompnv with the navigation from Belle-Isle West- ward from Cape Race, Quebec being the objective ' A. — Well,if you have dear weather the approach to the St. Lawronce is as goob as those approach^-s if you have clear weather, but if you havn't it is not as good. Q. — What is your experience a,s to the weather ? A. — I find a great deal more thick weather in the approaches here than iu'the approaches to New-York, Philadelphia or Baltimore. —Boston 1 know nothing about. Q- — Which do you think the most dangerous in narrow waters — A suowtorni or a fog ? A. — I couldn't make any distinction. Q. — They are both bad enough, I suppose ? A. — Yes, sir. Q.— Have you anything to recommend as an aid to tween Quebec and Montreal ? A.— No, sir. Q.— You trust the pilots entirely in these waters ? A.- -Yes, h\r. — Of course I look after him. Q.— How do you look after him - that would seem to indicate a knowledge of the channel, — Do you know the navigation b.-tweeu Que- bec and Montreal ? navigation be- 4) — 103 — I I A.-No. And further deponent saith not. A. W. G. MACALISTER, Official StenogriipUtr I. the undersigned, A. W. G Mrtcalister, (Official Stenographer', he- reby declare that th.' foregoing pages are a true and faithful transcript of the evidence given in this matt.r by captain Macdonald by me taken in stenography, the Kith day of October, I'.Mio. And I have isiigned. W A. W. G. MACALISTER. •20 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN WILLIAM H. TAYLOR, OF THE S. S. "LAKE MEGANTIC". taken the 23, October litOO. 30 4«J Examined uy Mr. Camphem., Chairman : Q.— How many years have you been in command :" A. — Nine years —Between nine and ten. Q —How long have you been coming to the St Lawrence i A. — IS years. Q. — What other trades have you been in ? A.— No other trade, only in sailing ships. I have been in this one trade in steamshij)s. Q.— Now, in approaching the St Lawrence by the Cape Race route, have you any suggestion to make as to the improvement of the same ? A —No, the only trouble is the light on Cape Pine and the fog signal. • Q." Cape Race, how is that ? A.— All right. Q.— A good light ? A. — Y.s sir, I believe it is an eighteen or twenty-two mile light — I am not quite certain which. Q.— Is there a fog signal there ? - 104 A. — Yes, a vory ^ood oii«, ii« far as 1 hiivo heiird of it Q. — l)i«I you luMir it thin spring i A — No.l liud liu*' weatluT. C^. — What about ihe light on cupw Pine Y A — It is a good light—u '2Maile light. I think, but it iH a iixud light, and if thf wcat'icr is any way hazy you arc liable to mistake it. and off Cape Tint' a laiU' and a half or two miles olf, a rock extends, which makcH it awkwaid nometiuies, so I would ^uggc^t on Cape I'ino, one of those occulting lights which would be far better, as you can't njislake 10 it — .Three or four HhsIics every minute, and a fog signal there Q — There is no fog signal there now i A.— No Q. — You think a siren is? hotter than a gun ? A.— Yes, a ^iren, not a gun. A gun is very irregular You can't trust them Q. — And Cap* Pine is an important light ? A. — A very important light, which all ship.s make, even going to Halifax, or coming thai way. You pass Cape IJaoe and then Cape Pine, for there is a live-fathom sounding there, and very often you see Cape 20 Pine when you don't see Cape l»ace. Q. — And the next place is Cape St Mary ? A. — Yes, that is of no imp('rtance, it is away off from the route. Q. — Would you sugm'.-t another light on Cape St Mary's ? A — No, that is a 24 mile light, I fhink. Q.— What is the next lijjht you pick up i" A. — St Pierre and Miquelon. Q — Have you anything to say about the^e V A.— They are very good. Q. — The soundings are good there V oO A.— We 1, yon may sometimes, in sounding, get not exactly what is on 'h" ih.irt, but I have found if I take them right through, a series of soundings, and compare thiin, you find them some good as a guide any- way. Q. — Well, then. Cape Ray, how do you find ('ape Itay V A, — All ri'jht, sir, but the light on this side that is Port Basque, I think, that ;8 a red light, that is a very poor light. It is not a very im- port in' hg'ii, it is more for coisting about, but it is important this way that very often in coming out Irom the South through the (rulf, you sometimes make it, and it gives you a distance off. and if you are too far 4 J North it enables you to steer off before passing Cape Ray, for you can't I — 105 10 apprdnoh that Capo too close, lor iho rocks extend towards I'orf. Basque. The Moiitpclicr went on there (^. — Are the Koimdings yood there ? A. — Yes hut ofoourHe the |{;iuk doesn't extend very I'iir The soundings are very deep, and of course to get them you have to slow down, ))ei'auBe the depth is t-o gr'.il And imniediatejy ydu gel liD or 7i> lathnins yoii are ;{ or 4 miles oU", and niu^t haul your ship ri^hl oil', that is, towards (''.ti)e Ray. KV— What a'.out Hird Rocks ? A— That is all riyht Q.— What is there Y A. — A gun. Q. — Would you suggest making a change and having a I'og whistle there i A.- -No, lor ve^isels can always avoid it The hank is very good there, and if you gel .")(l fathoms you have only to IimuI off into deep water, and I wouldn't siigg,!sl any alt(iraiii)!i there at all. sir. Hit F.iui ■ I'.iint ought tt( have a fog signal --That is very important. (.i— What ahout Cape Rosier Y A —It is too far in. We generally pass ID or ivi m les oil'. W'e. steer -" for Fame Toini, to pass it -i or I miles off ; WMiiie the trend of the land there may run yon through hetweeii Fame I'oint and ('ape Magdilen and th('ie is im itig bignal until you get lo Cape Magdalen, to a fog signal at Fame I'oint is very imp(»rtant <4>, — Before we get to Fame l\>iiil,can you suggest any iinproveinenls on the route Y A.- Only the improvements 1 have suggested, as ri'gards (Jape I'ine aiul I'oit I5as(|ne, and I don't think there is any other, lor of course you get fog and dill'ieulties in all straits, and as regards the soundings, well, sometimes I have found them vary from the chart ; I alw.ys have to take a Keiies, and they compare very well. Q — This light at Cape Ray is a revoh ing light Y A — No.l think Cape Ray i.s a fixed light, hut 1 am not sure, I would have to refer to the bonk, hut I think it is a fixed light. (^ — How do you find the working ol these revolting light.s in the St. Lawrence Y A. — Well, tlmy ar.' all right, sir. (j. — Yhey seem to work aiicurately Y A. — Yes sir, very olt-'ii the wt^ather is against them. (j — Do yon ever i-heck these lights Y 4¥ The witness :~llow Y :5() ■m. 106 r^. -It says on the chart it lliishes every I wenty secciuls— do you ever check that ? A. --We never sight a light but we couunt it to make sure. Q.— And suppose you found it revolving wrong ac Q. — Have you anylhin'."- to say about the light on Fame Point ? A.— No, it is a good light, but we ■wont a log signal there. It is real- ly necessary, lor there is nothing to guide ships that are pai'sing Cape Ray 10 until they get to Cape Magdalen. Q. — You prefer a fog signal to a gun ? A. — Yes sir, a siren or whistle. Q- — Would there be any advantage in having a light between Fame Point and Cape Magdalen — it is a big distance '? A. — 32 miles, I think. Q — You can pick up Cape Magdalen before you leave the ether light? A.— No, It is only an IS mile light. Q.— That IS Fame I'oint ^ A.— Yes, and Cape Magdalen is something like that. 20 Q.— Then you would be able to pi.-k up one before you lost the other? A. --Yes sir, Cape Magdalen is a good light, and to is Fame Point. Q. -Now, after you leave Cape Magdalen, your next point is Cap? Chatte V A. -Yes sir, a very good light. Q — Is there a fog whistli- or gun or .mything of that kind there ? A. — Yes, it is a gun. 'x'. — Would it be a great improvement to have a fog whistle ? A.— It you had a fog whistle on Fame Point and Cape Magdalen and one Cape Chatte, coining up to Anticosti and getting away to the :;0 North, you would get confused. Q. — There could be a distinction ? A— Yes sir, I prefer a whistle to a gun. \ gun is no use whatev^T. It isn't safe ; you might pass a light-house half a mile off, and see the flash of the gun and not hear the report. Q. Then you .suggest a fog whistle at all these lights in preference to a gun ? A.- Yes. <,) —Then Matane is the next light ? A. —That is ail right. 4 3 Q —What about that buoy off Matane ? — lo; il 10 A. — Tliat is all right of course in suininor-tirno, but I don't knovv how it would be in heavy weather, in a heavy sea, bu! if it was a very large gas buoy. Q —Or a bell- buoy ? A.— That is no ^ood, for if there is a fog, the atmosphere is so heavy you can't hear it alongside. Q. What would you suggest ? A.— At night time a gas giu>y — u jumping light on it. Q. — It is a small buoy now V A. — An ordinary sijscd buoy, about a mile and a half froni Imd. We very seldom use it, unless we are coming up. Q. — Have you any suggestion to make regarding Father Poir L ? A — No, only that it is a belter placr to land the mails then Uimouski. Q, — There is a gun there i A -Yes. Q. — Don't you think it would be hotter to have a good siren ? A — At a place line that, where we go in to lake pilots, ihey want a si ren or whistle, and they want a gun as well, or something like that. Q— Why V A. — Because they answer the vessels with theij gun. You see, sup- pose you go in and show your lights or fire a gun, very often they answer you with a nun. Q — You thin k the gun would be a good think to answer vessels ? A— Yes. 0. — Why not answer the vessels with the fog signal ? A. — Of course I prefer a log whitle to a gnu, and beinsj a very im- portant place, there is no reason why thi;y shouldn't have both. Tht y must adhere to the regularity of the fog signals, about a minute or two minutes apart, and you miglil mistake it lor another vessel. Q — There has been a n-w light jilaced on the Traverse ? A — Yes sir, there used to be a li>ihtship there, but now they have a buill light there. It is very awkward at night time to judge your disianoe. A voee : - That is only a temporary light. A. — I didn't understand that, but tt is very awkward at times going in like that at night time ; you are close bi'fore you are aware of it, and a d.rk niiihl you have to keei) so so very closi-, it is awkward at times. (.^t, — Approaching Quebec what about the leading lights? A. — They are all right, sir. Q. — Would you suggest an extra light on the Island of Orleans .' A — Will, for instance, there is a buoy then' after you pass the •♦« Government Wharf nil you get to Orleans there is no light, and it is a long iO 80 — 108 turning, and then- aro two buoys then', oi 01:0 iinyway, in ihc hiiiyvay Hiid if It was a gais buoy thcr.- would be no t«ar of vessels runniiia8!>ing on the vviong side, which you aiv liable to do running, down, otiptcially if running down with the fbb, lor the tido carries you so quick, vi^ry often the ship over-iuns Iht distanc' with you. •i— Have you any suggestion to make about going out of Quebec at night ? A. — That is what I mean-going pa.-t Orleans Island Q— Between Quebec and Montreal, hare you any suc"-eslion to 10 make ? A. — Well, only as reffards the channels —they are very narrow. Q-— Wr.uld it b' i.ossible to navigate from Lanorie to Montreal, with proj)er lights- if you had uas buoys ? A. —No sir, not with a ship like mine anyway. Q. — With a twin-screw beat ? A. — No sir.uulcss with tugs ahead and astern or something like that, to turn you in the narrows Q. —Could you navigate the lower reachers of the river Quebec to the Westward, if there were g. is buoys ? •20 A Yes, we can now at nighi tini.' as far as Cape LaRoohe throuiih the Richelieu at night time now. Q.— You have some gas buoys there V A.— Yes. Q. — An; they good V A.— Yes. we couldn't do without them; we couldn't po.ssib'y go through Cape LaRoche at any rate at night time ; it is .m> narrow that a shi|) like that couldn't do it unlei-s you had tugs ahead or astern to slew her round at the bends. You >»ee it is a deep narrow cutting. Q -You have nothing else to suggest about the ai)proaches to Que- oO bee '^ A. -No. Q— In going towards the East throuijfh the Straits, have you any sugirestion to make revarding Heath Point - I t.ui)pose that is what you head for, or is it South Point ? A. — South Point usually-- we generallX i)ass it about seven miles off'. Q — South-West point, you don't make that '* A. — We do at a distance off It is of a very little importance. Q - Between Soiith-We>t jjoint and South Point, have you any sug- g'stion to make there ? 4 J A. -No. eaving We go 10 — loy — Q. — There are good soundings there V A— Y.'s. Q. — How often do you use the load us a rule ? A. -We cast the lead every hour between Belle Isle and Autioosti, fair weathei or foul. Q — But suppose it is thiok ? A. — That di^pends on how we approach. If we are neai .. 'and, we keep it going every half hour. Q. — You can run quite a di.stanoe in half an hour ? A — Yes. If we are clo.se we keep it going every ten ininutes Q. — Weil, how is the lighting on South Point ? A — A very good light, Q. — Is there a fog whistle there ? A —Yes. Q. — A pretty good whistle ? A. -Yes, only because we pass at such a distance off we don't gene- rally hear it. Q. — How about Heath Point ? A.— Between South and Heath Point comes Cormorant Point.In pass- ing we keej) to the Westward, and p.iss Health Point poih.ip.s three or four miles olf, and huil your ship aro.ind for South Point, and you pass Cormorant Point about one and a half miles away. I should suggest some- thing there although ihe di.stance is v.-ry sh )rt between S )uth Point and Heath Point. Q.— Wouldn't you suggest either a lightship or a light at or about Heath Point ? A. — You want it somewhere around Fox Biy - I um talking abjut Cormorant Point, which is to the :S.>uth. Foi Biy is to the North, and most decidedly ships coming down there off to the Xorth are li.ible to 30 shut out Heath Point light. C^ — Well, you would l^uggest another light or lightship ? A. — Yes. there is something wanted there, if you are sent to the North, and I should think a lijihtship just as good, but of course a light- ship is liable to driit Certainly another light would be advisable. Q.— To the North of H. ath Point ? A.— Yes. O. — P'or ships coming to the Westward 1 A.— Ye.s ^ir, between Fox Bay and Heath Point. Q — How laroff Amicosti should the lightship be ? ,^ A —Two or three miles off Fox Bay, but as regards the fog, there .s no limit as to where you strike it. l*J I" — 110 — Q. — Tht' souiidiiij^H arc good ? A. — Yt'M sir, V. ry >fo()|) again Q. — At Heath roini is it a gun or a fog wliJMllt' ? A. — A ffun. Q— Do you alwiiys uht'ck by that gun ? A— I havi' ht'ard it a lewtiines, hut i;ot ol'len. We don't go in einsn enough to hear it in foggy Wtnilher 19 C^- It would l)e better to have a good strong siren ? A.--YeN. (i — Wliai aliout a light on St Mary's ? A —That is a very iinportani i>laee, hecaus.' if the wind is from the South you get set to the North, and going down this is a long courM' J;{ii miles, from Point Amour to Antieosti, and you generally mak e they have put the new light there on Flower [s- land. That is a gr< at advantage. Q - Have you anything to say about the Straits? A. — Not about the Straits exaotly, but around Uellelsle. + > (J.— What about the light and the fog whistle at Cape Normau i — Ill — 10 ■JO 80 4« A. — That JH all rigiil aud iho i'og whJMlli' is NpltMulid, uiid you can approach vttry clu^te on that roasl lor yuii can always get good Huuiidiiigs there Q, -What about thi- land itsi-H" '( A — I should suggest a light liousc somewhcri' on Iht* North-Hiihl of th»' Isliiiid he ausi' the vessels goini? in to the VVt'stwar.l on the Norih(Mn routii I'loni the Noiihot' Ireland on a i^rolc track, il they get M't to the Noiih the coaHt, hut it Mhut» th<- present light out eutirely It shuts it outside the arc ol visibility. Q — Have you soundings near Helle Isle A — Yessf, hut they are very d'Oi). In approaching Belle Isle ii' you get bi'undings at all you are six or seven miles otT. Q. — In approaching IJelle I>le you always sound i A — Yes.if we can't see. If we see ihe lii^ht the ordinary dijitanc.- off we don'i sound But you can .-ouiid and get sixty or seventy-live fathoms within a niiK- or so of the rocks, and at the same time you can get the same soundijig» five or six miles otf Of. course in sounding like that, the soundini^s range prol)ahly from to 8 i fathoms. You njiyht he five miles oil and get 7" fathom.- and uet just the same at two miles off, and when you are well in the lin.' with Cape IJald and Belle Isle light- house then you get .">') or liO fathoms. Q — Ii there is a thick fog there and you can see nothing, what do you do ? A. — Haul out and wait till it clears. You can't atiempt the Straits unless you see eomething. This time coming I saw Belle Isle — it was snowinir from the North Eeat veiy heavy and I made B-lle Isle. Thi' land was covered with snow and I c. A. — Yes sir, very good. And further deponent saith not A. W. (i MACALISTEH. Official Stenofi-iaplter. I, the undersigned A. W G. Macalister, of the City of Montreal, Official Stenographer, hereby declare that the foregoing pages are a true and faithful tran.script of the evidence given in this matter by Captain Taylor on the 24th day ol October i;t()0 And I have signed. A W Q MACALISTER, Official S/eno^ra/t/ier. 30 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN VERNON LANDER, OF THE STEAMSHIP "YOLA". Taken the 24th day of October lltOO. 4« Examined by thk Chairman. Q —Where are you trading. Captain i A. — London and Montreal. Q — How long have you been in command ? A.— Three years.but I have been trading to the St Lavvrance as officer for ten years. Q. — You left London this voyage ? uu - 118 10 2% 60 n i.-Yes. Q — What route did you take ? A. — I oamo in North I3t'lU' Isle way Q — Did you got any instruotions before (sailing as to the route you wore (o take ? A.— No sir, the owners left it entirely to rae. •j.— And you elected the Hello Isle route ? A. — Yes, because it is the shortest route V Q — But 'ad there in fine weather or bad, and very often yon know exaetly where you are and it does no* tally at all with the soundings Q. — How do (he lights on the St Lawrence compare with the Ameri- can and Hritish lights ? A. — The American lights are belter. They are brighter and are fla- shing lights, easier lo distinguish and pick out. Q. — Do you prefer flashing lights ? A. — Yes, sir. Q. — How do the American lights compari^ with the British lights A. — They are better than the English. Q. — How do our lights compare with thi' light in the Unglish Chan- nel ? A.— Our lights in the English Channel are splendid lights, and the French ligtits on the other side, you can see them all the time in the sky. Q. — Can you see them better thvongh a fog ? A. — Yes sir, they throw their light up instead of down on the water, it goes up into the sky and it' there is a low lying fog you can see the light high up. You can often see it from the mast head above the fog Q. — Can you suggest any improvement for the day m irks on these light-houses ? A. — Yes sir.it is hard to distinguish these light-houses, especially ior a stranger, and I would suggest ifth^y had a large mast or something like that goini; uj) above the light with different symbols and different colors, that would not be obliterated hy the snow Q. — What is your opinion regarding the River between Quebec and Montreal, a.** to navigating at night V A. — I wouldn't care to do it at present. Q. — But supp( se you had gas-buoys ? A. — If it was gas buoys with a beautiful clear moonlight night there is no rea>-on why you eonldnt go. Q. — Y s sir there is more room there. Q. — HaTi' you had any tjouble in g.ttinga pilot at Father Point ? A. — No sir. — 123 — 10 Q — There is a good light there ? A.— Yes sir, but there should be u gas-buoy there oir Cook Point for you have to keei) outside ol" the buoy that is there. You can't see it at night and so you have to give it a berth of about two miles — that is off Cock Point. Q.— Have you ever heard the gun or the fog-horn ? A. — Not for the last six years. Q.— You have always had clear weather there. A. — Yes sir, I have been fortunate. Q.— When you sound your whistle does he (lighthouse man) lire the gun V A. — Perhaps he doesn't hear your whistle. There might be a litth' wind blowing from the light-house and he does not hear you Q. — Do you think it would rather mix you up with other steamers ? A.— No sir, if he would blow three blasts all along, or two high and one low or seme other distinguishing mmk it wouldn't mix you at all And then at (he Bird Rock.s there is a gun there ev-ry twinty minutes You might go by and hear it once and then you would not be sure of it and. you would think you had heard something else it might be a noise 20 down about the deck somi where and you go on and never hove an oppor- tunity of hearing it agiiin. Q. — You would recommend abolishing the gun altogether and having the fog whist It !* A. — Yes sir. When I was on Belle Isle I saw steamers go in close and didnt hear that gun. Q. — How often should a fog whistle be sounded ? A — Noi a longer time than a minute when it is thick log Q. — Which route do you prefer from choice to go to Montreal ? A. — In the months of August and September I prefer Belle Isle. SO ^' — Have you anything to say about the River going from Montreal out on the river V A. — Well, of course I have been a shore here opposite the gas-works once and the way that oceurred was that we had a dense log come down all of a sudden, and the buoys were far apart and we could not see them and we could not go aheurd and so we actually went ashore I should sugge.>t I few more Imoys '.here lor they are too far apart. Q.— These are the only difficulties you can spe,ik of. Well in turn- ing the ship oil Montreal ? A. — But you can get up into slack water to do 'hat Q. — Do you consider that you are sufficiently conversant with the 4« — 124 — question to apeak authorilulively about tho lights botvvenn hore and Quebec i A —No, I do not. Q— You trust to your pilot ? A.— Yt>s, we havt' our books.charts etc. oau look them up and Hud out, but wv have uot got them in our memories as well an we have th.> Gulf. And further deponent saith not. A. W O MACALISTER, 10 0//iciut Slenoffrupher. I.the undersigned, AI.'X \V.(^ Maealister, Official Stenographer.do here by declare that the foregoing pages are and contain a true and faithinl transcript of the evidence given in this ma'ter of Captain Vernon Lauder on the 24th day of Oct. Il)(ln. A. W G MACALISTEU, Olficial Stenographer . ■20 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN aEOKGE BUCKIN(}HAM OF THE STEAMSHIP "RAPIDAN" m here. + 1 Q A I Q A Q A (^ A Q A Q Examined bt the Chairman; -Where are you trading ? -I have been here the last three voyages.that is all my experience -You have not been here in the past ? -NO, I have been in the Newport, News Trade. -Where are you trading now ? -Between Antwerp and here. -And Hamburg ? -No sir, Antwerp direct. -What route did you come in by ? -South. -I suppose there is not the same object for you to come North ? l2o 10 A.— No sir, I should lose. II 1 had my id.-a I should always como South. Q— C'oiHing into Cape Raco you havii good soundings ? A. -YfH, I cam.' and it was very thiik, and I had oiw ul' those tel.- graphs from the hridjie to the stern and 1 told the oUicer iu eharge il he got less than M) fathoms to ring nn' up. Q — How ollen do you sound V A— Every hall hour. Q— What have you to say about the route from Cai)e liiee up ? A. — Well, J went to Cape Pine, but 1 went to Sydney this time for coni Q —Is the light i\ Cape Pine a yood li time. Q.— That was Ii;a>t of Cape Race V A.— Nu sir, inside of Cape Race between there and Cape Pine. I think they had got caught out and had to anchor. Q— ^Vhat i)()int in the river do you be steer for fiist ? A. — Fame Point Q — What have you to s.iy about that light. A —I haven't seen it by night. I have come uj) by day. Q — Is there a log signal there '? A. — I forget just now. Q.— Do you think there should be OJie ? A.— Yes sir, I think wliererer th.-re is a li^ht a fog signal is just as necessary as the light. Q. —What knul of fog siarnal do you recommend ? A.— A siren or w^histlc. I have seen the smoke Irom a gun and never heard the report. That tiappeued at Kinsail in Lngland. Q- — How clo.'>»> were you ? 4 J A.— I think I was about three miles. I don't know, but they say that ■■',(} — 126 10 ■2« ;-!(» sound travels curiously — il may have gone o\ or lao 1 saw ihc smoke but I didn't hear the report. Q — You think if there had been a togvrhistle there you would ha\e heard it ? A. — I think so I hear Cape Race coming up and I didn't see it and 1 heard the whistle quite plain. Q — How about Cape Kay ? A. — 1 went to Sydney lor coal. Q. — But you have passed there ? A. — Yes, it was a very good light there. Q. — Did you notice the revolution of the light there ? A. — Yes, they seemed to be all right, but ol course a man counting it may be out a lew seconds, ll was quite good enough to determine that it was Cape Ray Q. — Y'^ou never came by Belle Isle ? A. — Once about twenty years ago •)n a sailing vessel Q--I'id you make the Bird Rocks coming in this time i A. — Yes, I did about five o'clock in the evening. Q. — W;is it thick or clear weather ? A. — A clear ; rain on first voyage. Q. — Were they firing the gun ? A. — 1 was eight or nine miles ofT— too far otftbhearit, I think there .«hould be a liirht over between Point Nenl and Pointe Des Monts iu the Lower St-Lawrence. I can't speak ot Father. Point It was blowing hard and thick snow and I slowed down and was pretty near over to the other side the next mornii.g and thai is only a tire mile light, I think. Q.— On the North side of the St- Lawrence ? A. — Ye.s, but it was thick snow and I thought there was no use going to Father Point for I coi»ld not get a pilot anyway and as soon as I got sounciin^s I saw these two I'ghts. They are only five mile lights and they look like a steamer, one higher than the other. Examined by Mb Campbell Q — You have a written statement of what you think would l)e the best arriiagenient of lights V A. --Yes. Q. — Hare th" Americans no sationary lights V A. — They aie nearly all Hash lights now. (J. — Do they use any juuns ? , 4« A — Mostly sireus. — 127 — Re Examined m the Chairman. 10 2* 4:i Q — Would you kiudly state what your statomt^nt co\'ers so that we can hear th*^ samo ? A— Cape Race should be a revolving light with one llish. If you want to make a uniform light let Cai)e Kaee have one Hash and Cape Pine, whieh is now a fixed light he a revolving light with two Hashes and then Port Bas(|ue could he a revolving light with three Hashes. Then Cape Ray with ilour flashes. Then St. Paul's, which is now a fixed light, ou the North side would be a revolving light with live Hashes, and the Bird Roekd would be a revohing light with six flashes. It is a fixed light now. They were speaking of a light shiji oft' Antieosti and I find you can get from 21) to ;'.i' fathoms of water there— 1;") miles oH. Splendid soundings. Q.— Whiit :ibout Heath Poii.t ? A.— Revolving seven flashes Q.— Where would the light be pla ed ' A. — The same light as it there now. I would like to say that I approve of the light-ship off Auticosti. Q. — Now tne next place ? A.— South Point eight flashes. R — 111 what time ? A. — In the minute. Q.— Wouldn't you get mixed up (he flashes if the went up lo eight ? A. — No, sir. On the American coast Cape Charles is forty-fiv.i first tour and then five. Di course it would require an expert to detyrinine what time to give the flashes in. Q.— But suppose you have had the eight Hashes, vThen would the next eight flashes come ! A.— Say thirty seconds after Q. — It IS practically going a'l the time ? A.— Yes sir, all the time. As soon as they finish one they start another. Q. — It is all automatic ? A. — Y< s, of course. Q.— Wliat next ? A.— Souih-West Point — nine flashes Q. — And next. A — We.»t Point ten flashes V Q — What next ? A —Cape Rosier— eleven flashes ; Fame Point twelve flashes ; Cape — 128 — Magdalen thirteen ; Martin liivor, iburteen ; ' "ap." Chatte, fifteen ; Mata ne, sixteen ; Little Metis, seventeen ; Father Pointe ; eii'hteen ; Point des Monis ; a revolving light of any description and a good light between Pointe des Monts and Point Neuf. Q. — What do you think about the day marks V A — I think there should be a big post and day marks tht^ same as the light-ships, a ball or a s(|uare or a double diamond etc, and these should be on a post elose to the light house and then if it is covered with snow the light house keeper can give it a good shake and get rid of all IQ the snow. Examined by Captain Riley : 2« 3ti Q. — Have you made any mention of Matane Reef ^ A. — No sir, I have not. Q — IIow often do you think that gun sliouM be liri'd at Bird lloeks^ A. — Not longer than five minutes. Q. — Not at intervals of half an hour ? A.— A ship could go ;)shore half a dozen times in that time. Q. — Wouldn't you consider a hydrographic survey, such as oarr'ed on by the American Government, a very good thing in tht St Ijawrence >* A. — I have only been here three voyages and I don't know how the coast is surveyed. Q — From your actual soundings do you find the charts pretty cor- rect Y A. — Yes sir. fairly good. Q. — What about the navigation of the river ? A. — We came up twice and anchored away above the ra[)ids at night and I don't see why you can't come to Montreal if you substitute gas-buoys in the room of the buoys that yoa have. — white lights on the i»ort side and red lights on the starboard. Q. — What is the size of your ship.Captain ? 4) A Q A Q A Q A Q — 4S77 net. — Gross ? —73 5. — What do you carry ? — 1 14:i() tons including bunkers and everything. — Did you bring all that up to Montreal ? — No, sir. — Were yo i able to load up full at Newport News V — 129 — A. — Yfs, sir I leit tht'if '2!> ft. In, but if she touched in the mud there you would not know it. They have 30 feet of water there. Q. — And you can load a lull cargo ? A. — Yes, sir. I have made I'ouiteeu voyages there and shipped a fuU cargo every time. Q. — Suppose you go through the Richelieu at night and it came on a fog or stormy or something, you can't anchor th>'re ? A. — We would have to continue. The first night [ came up in the middle of the llapids we had a very steady rain storm but, ?till we ma- naged to get up to anchor. 10 Q.— Who was the pilot ? A. — Fraiuis BouiU • but Belisl.' is my |)ilot tlie la.st two Toyages and we came up and anchored aWove the rapids ahout half past ten. Q. — How much water were you drawing ? A — Twenty-one feet fix. Q--And you think that with properly lighted gas-buoys you could navigate the rest of the river V A. -Yes. Q — Right from Quebec to Mont real, by night with proper gas buoys' A.-Yes ;0 Q' — i'lve you met with any difficulties in making Montreal ? A. — No, the worst difficulty was turning around here at the start when we leave Montreal but, we have managed it nicely so far, but 1 don't know aiiythin:^ ah )ut the wat t hi^r > except what Ih' i>ilot tell.s me' IvE'EXAMlNEI) BY THE CHAIRMAN 80 Q. — Have you any objection to fyle and leave with us this statement that you referred to in your evidence ? A. — No sir, I wish it were in better ship.\that is all. And f fyle it as exhibit number 1 . Q You referred to the American lights ? A.— Yes. Q —Have you had recourse to thi- book here in looking him up ? A —Yes. Q.— At what pages ? A.— Page 94 Q. — ^Vill you leave this book with us ? A. — Yes. I will leave it as exhibit number 2. Aud fuither deponent saith not. A. W. G. MACALISTEK. 4« Official Stenographer- - 130 — I, undorsigiit'd Alexander W. G. Maoali&ter Oflieial Stenographer hereby deelare that the I'oregoing pages are true and faithful transcrip- tion of the evideuie given in this matter by Captain Bnckingham, by me taken in stenography, th :i4(h. day of Oct IHOO, and I believe that the changes made in ink have been made by the Captain himself And I have signed. A. W a MACA LISTER. 0//icial Stetiogrnpli er , 10 DErOSlTION OF CAITAIN J AMES DOUWOOD- OF THE STEAMSHIP ■ HURONA, ' OF THE THOMPSON LINE •JO Taken this IGih day of October, 1900 Examined by the Chairm.^n. Q. — How m:iny years have you been in command ' A. — I have been in command of a steamer lor four years. Q. — How long have you been running on the St L:iwrent:e ? A. — Since IHTO, off i>nd on, l)Ul part of that time I have been away. I have been running constantly to the St Lawrence for the last tttii years We were away to Africa and New Orleans and different parts Q. — All this time you have been in command or an officer ? A. — Yes sir, in command and chief oflicer. 30 Q. — What port did you sail from this time ! A. — Newcastle. Q.— By what route did yon come ? A.— Dy Pent land Firlh and straits of IJelU' Isle. Q.— Whv did you come that way V A — liecausi' it is the shortest route. Q — 1)|,, you get any oniers to come by the straits of Belle Isle ? A. — No, we always come that wiy. We have stamiing orders to come thai way in the proper season Q. — Do I't yon meet more ice that way ? 4« A.— Some seasons, but we haven't seen any ice at all this season. - 131 10 20 30 4) Q- How niiuiy times have you come thiit way ? A — This is my third voyage, this year. Q. — And you liave seeu practioally no ice ''. A — No.nir. Q— Wh;it about fog ? A — I don't think there is much diflfreuc.!, There is as much lop up there as South Som-'times we have a motion that it lasts a shorter time, but 1 don't know that it varies much. Q. — Have you any soundings going in to Bellf Isle ? A. — Yes sir, there is a good bed We get ioundiiig^ oil iil i( Q— Fifty miles otf i" A. — I think about that. Q. — Is thert^ anything you would suggest as an aid, in imi)r<«vinhts on lielle Isle good ? A. — Yes. when the weather is clear, but of course if it is foggy wea- ther you I'.in't see them and you have to stop until you see them or some- thing el.-e. Q — Would you give us your reasons for stating tliat a light on liie North-Ea^t end of Uelle Isle would be an improvement? A — If you were coming in and the weather is a little hazy, perhaps you may be a little to the North of your course, and perhaps a little to the Northward of v\ hat you expect. Q. — Is that likely to happen ' A — Yes sir, it has happened often enough. Q. — That is on the great circle track ? A.— Yes. Q —Well, is the light on Cape Bald all right V A. — Yes. It mitrht be made a more powerful light perhaps, but you can see it well eiiouah when the weather is clear Q —Is everything all right through the Straits? A. — Well, yes everything is all right up to Cape Norman, but the lights miiiht be made more powerful, perhaps. Q. — And the lights nt the Western entrance of the Straits arc fairly good :" — 132 — 10 J) 80 A —Yes NJr. At Flowor L. Igt- thei.' i,s a n.w li|,'lil, Imi 1 liuv.'ii't SLU'U it. I don't think you could uiiike out thi' lighl-housc there rroin ii dwelling liuuHe Q. — In there any lbg-si|ir|ial there V A —No, sir and I should tiiink there should be oiu' ai thf light- house. Q. — And then you steer for Heath Point, I supj)08e two liundr.'d and and forty niiles otl" ! A -Yes Q.— Have you any suggestion to make as to iuiproveincMtN l)etaei'ii the Western entrance to the Straits and Heath I'oiut ? A.— It Would be a good thing to have a good light otf St Mary"« island. Q— What about Heat Point ? A. — Well, it is pr.'tly hard to i)iik up, and it might I.e improved by a stronger liuht. (.}. — What distance can yon see it now ^ A. — I think at seventeen miles, Q. — Isn't that a protty good liyht ? A.— No. It should twenty or twenty-two milcK and I would have it a flash 'iuht or something, not a lixed light as it is now. Q— You have good soundings there ? A.— Yes. Q.— You can get around Aniic.sti without any trouble whether yon can see or not ? A.— 1 never had any trouble yet. You ran feel your way around. Q.— Do you reniembiT the buoy that used to be off Heath Point ? A. — No, sir. Q.— Do you think it would be an improvement to have an automatic buoy there ? A.— It would be good to have it, but 1 think you would be more cer- tain to pick up a light-ship or a light on the point away to the Eastward. A lightship might do, Q.- An automatic buoy would be kept there very easily ? A.— Yes, ])ut y(m can't pick it up very far down the river and very often the light may go out or somelhing like that. Q. — Would you favor a light-ship ' A —Yes, or a light house away up on that Cape to the North side of it. Q.— Which Cape ? 4w — I A — liiist Cape. Q -Wi'll then louudiUjj Anticosti you htoer Inr South Point, I sup- pose ? A. Ye&,\ve >teer to go lour miles oH it. ^ee al that time — it was like a darkness coming over it. Q. — Then you don't approve of the red flash ' A.— It would be viry good if it was distinct enough. (.^. — Is there any fog signal tlure ? A. — No sir, but there should be one at all points where tliere is a lighthouse. Q. — Have you any soundings from Fame Point up f A. — There is deep water and soundings if ynu gi-i close I'uough in, but we don't sound nuu'h coming up there. _i, (.j. — You don't make it a ruK* to sound every half hour / A. — Ni), but we ,-ound occasionally just whenever we think it is necessary to do so. Q. — What about Cape Magdalen ? A. — That is no good It is four minutes sometimes between the Hashes. There in u red and a while light, and y 'U c.iii see the white light A coiisiderabli' distance b'lore yi -aii see Ihi' red one, and thai makes four minutes betwct'ii the two wh... flashes, and you gel tired of looking for it. Q. — Then as a rule a red liirht is not desirable V ;j,{) A.— \o.it is not lo be depended upon, and tiien there is so long be- tween the llashe>, for there is lour minutes from on-' bright lla>h to au- oth r, and it may be a (juarter of an houi alter you see the white light before you can see the red one Q. — Well, what .ib m. the lights l)etween there and l''ather Point- Have you any suugestions to make f A. -Well, alter Mai>(lalen there is Martin Jiiv 'which is a fixed light but a i:ood liL'ht — Perhaps it could be incri ased in power, but 1 don't see there is any diliiculty in passing it, lor Iheie is a slraighl course to Cape Chatte. 4^ <^ —What about Cai)e Chatte { 134 — A, — Well we hud it showery there, but I could ;ihviiys see the t'hissh when it revolved and it is said to be every thirty seconds, but I I'ound it to be forty five seconds, I and the chief olficer counted it several tiiuis but the weathi'r was bad-sort oi hazy with snow storms hanging abcnit and I thought that might possibly havi- interfered with it. We went within thr.'c miles of it, Q.— Well, what about Maliuie and Metis ? A, — Matane is a fixed light, and a more powerful light would b- bet- ter. 10 Q- — 111 liii't you think all the lights in the lower St. Lawrence should be improved 1 A — Yes sir, they should be given more power. Q.— What about Father Point ? A. — 1( is a good light Q — You can see it twenty miles off ? A —I think it is an eighteen miles light, and th:U depends on th« weather of course Y'^ou can hardly guess how far you can see it. Q. — What about the fog signal there ? A — .-Vt one tini'' I anch )red off there in a fog and we heard the •20 signal all right, but 1 dare say a h(tra would b" better f)r you could get a bearing better than with an explosive. Q. — What j'bout Metis ? A — It is a very good light Rut I would have fog signals at all these light houses. Q. — Supposing yoi; oome in South instead of North as you would in the Spring and Fall, how are the approaches to Cape IJace ? A.. — They are all right, sir. There is a fog siirnal ttit-r', though som". times you miiiht nor hear it very lar, but it depends on the wind Q. — Is there a yood light there ? 3(j A. — Yes sir, and good soundings. Q — Y'>u pra( tically have nothing to suggest there escei)ting increa- sed power of the signal ? A —That is all 'l — After you leave there what next ? A --('ape Fine and St Mary. Q. — Wliat have you to say about Cape I'ine ^ A. — Nothing in particular, I have found it all right Q — You hove never passed there in a fog ? A — Yessir,and if there had been a fog signal I would have ln'ard it, . but there was none and there should be one. it ut 111 t- 1.1 1* 135 10 Q — What is the next place i 1— Galantry Head— That light is all right. Q— That is a French light i A.— Yes. Q. — And then the next place V A.— Cape Hay. That is a good light in clear \veathiM\ l)ut I think it should be incre.isod in power too. Nearly the whole ol'tlieni seem to nfted more power. Q. — Alter you pass Cape Ray, what next ? A.— The Bird Rocks— That is a very bad light. A fi.ved light is no good to pick up especially in hazy weather, but the soundings there are good. You can always t^hape a course by that and they are correct— the best soundings in the Gull'. Q — After you pus.s liird Ro. ks where do you steer for V A. — Gasjie. — There is nothing much there except ih,. light on (.'ape Rosier. Q. — What about the navigation between Father roinl and Quebec ^ A — We have the assistance ol a pilot there and we generally trust to him. -' Q. — li you saw him running your ship ashore you should not h t him '( A. — No,but very often we are up all the time from Cape Race and up there it is abnut time lor a sleep. When you gel a man appointed by the Cuuipany to look alter a sliip oi cour.^e with an ollici'r in charge of him you feel safe. I don't always do that but very often you will find that after thirty six hours of it you are ready to lie down lor a while alter that. But the ship is fully in their charge then and you trust every- thing to them to keep her sale and if it comes on fog of oours<' I am called at once and if I cant see myself we anchor if it is [)ossible to anchor at :^0 all. Q — Y'ou don't know of anything at the moment which would sug- gest itself to you as a necessary improvement there between Father Point and (.joebeo ? A. — Well, there is a very dark i):irt th're between St Lawrence Point and the West end of Oilcans Island, going up and I tiiink there should be feinnething there to guide you - a half way light bet v^^n Si. Lawren- ce P<»inl and tin West End of Orleans Island. And then meie is the re- flection ol ilie lights (d' Quebec over the point, and that daz/.les you a lit- tle. 4* Q. — What about the inivigation between Quebec and Montreal :" 13(5 up aiul (■ river, A. — VVr hiivoii't much to do witli that t'ilher, but 1 think it i.s ii very daik run right Iroin Quebec iind I tliiuk sovi-rul liiihts tliere would be better. Q. — Bi'tweeu Quebec and G mud i lie { A. — Yes sir, Ciipe Race is v>'ry good but you have a long run lie- tore getting there. The last tiiiii' there was a thick tog ciuue didn't know whether we were in the middle one at one side of tl but we got the anchor down and we were alrisrht. Q. — When do you.expi'ct to meet snow storms V 1§ A. — We had one this time at I? die Isle. Q. — Did it bother you at all in grttii g into the Straits V A. — No, we didn't losi' more th m about an hour. We had to rediu'e speed you know and go cautiously • i. — Which would you rather have, snow or tog ? A. — None of them is any good but I think oni' is as bad as the other. Q. — How do you find your soui. dings compare with those on youi iharts ? A. — I generally find tlu-m about right, but we never trust exactly to 2Q the soundings, but I very olten come around Heath Point and the l>ird Rocks and in that way we find them to come in very well. Q. — Then you don't think it necessary to have a hydrographie surv.-y A. — W\dl I don't know but what it would be an inijirovement to have it surveyed and get the correct thing. Q. — These soundings were taken a great many years ago ? A. — Yes sir, and I find them atxiut right. EXAMINKD BY Mli RkFOUD. m Q. — W^hat kind of light do you prefer V A —.A flashing light because it pierces its way out though a fog bet- ter than H fixed liu'ht, and with a fixed light you may misiake it for a steamer s light, and with a flashing light you know at once what it is. Q.— What do you think is the proper period to allow for the Hash ? A.— The different points would have to have difFerenl flashes you know. Q — Well, what is the longesi period you would have between the flaches ? 4} A. — Well, say five seconds between. Q.— Nothing ov»'r that V ■y wv m le — 137 - A.— No tir, iiud thi'd theio would he i)erhups thife or lour or those you know. Q — What kind of log sij^iialsdo you prefer ? A —A siren - A gun I never had much use for. Q — How olten should the siren he used f A. — I would use it say every ten v)r fifteen minutes. (.,>.— You can go quite a distanee in hfteeu niinules. A.— Well, it depeii'ls on the point it is at You may want to have it more frequent in some jiluees, hut I should s.iy that len minutes is long 10 enough to have between. Q.— Would you think that that is the very utmost limit ? A.— Yes sir, it is hi-tter to have it ten than iii'teen minutes. Q.— How do you lind the lights in the St. Lawrenee as compared with the lights Du the British Channel :" A. — Weil, the atmosphere may ha\t' a iul to do with ihe lights on the St. Lawrenee. You can s*-.' the French light all over thi> British Chan- nel, and we have a big light on the Isle of Wight which is as good a light as the French but the fog covers it Q. — lio you find that the lights on the St. Lawrence are weaker than -' the lights in the Briii-h Channel ? A. — I think so. Q. — They -re not so good ? A. — No, sir. Q. — Do you think it would make navigation safer to have them as good ? A.— 1 think so Mi Examined ijy thk Chairman. Q —Do you consider the St-Lawrence Navigation very dangerous ? A.— It wants a lot of care to have your positictn all the time, But with ordinary tare it is all right (i — As regards the Channel on the North Shore of Anticosti, if that was lighted up would it be of any use i A —I don't think so, for on the South sides the water is suitable for anchoring and you have lots of room to move about, and you can go away over on the Bank, and that is a guide tn go up towards (xaspe. But on the North Shore there is deep wat<'r and you couldn't anchor even if ii was light. 40 — 138 — Examined uy Mr Honu Q - In mukiiig Ibr Newoustlf Iroiii the St Lawrciirc, do ynw go l)y the North or the South of Ireland ? A.— For Penth^iid Firth Q— Isit coiisidend hy navigators that the North Chftimel is more daiiaerous tliaii the South. A- I don't think so. It is not so dangerous Ibr shippiim- anyway for we don't meet so many ships 10 • Q —Is it well lighted ? A. — Yes ^ir.there are several new lights placed there lately and there are fog i-ignals placed on the Hutte of Lewes. We go that way all the year through summer and winter. We run to Portland in the winier and go through the IVntland Firth going out ami uo up th" .•hminel coming home. Q — Would you fonsider it as easy and safe to make iln> Tort of New- castle by the North as to make Liverpol by the South ? A.— Well yes, I don't think there is any differenf-e There is no par- ticular danger in the North Of course you have to know how to work ■2Q and not go into the Pent land Firth against a strong tide and a gale of wind. But if you use caution it is just as safe Examined hy the Ciiaiuman. Q— In the fall when there are snow-storms,don't yun lin' iii — 139 — A. — There is a sigual tuasl clasu to thu light house. There are several of these painted with a black strip on the mast and a horizontal strip around it hut the light houses are so small they are harJ to pick up. Q — Do you pretend to know enough of the navigation bi'tweon Father Point and Montreal to say what should be done to improve it ? A. — No.only to have the river deeper. Q. — As a matter of fa(;t you leave the navigation of tbess waters pra- ctically to \h>'. pilot ? A. — Yes sir.that is their business. 10 Q- —What water does your ship draw ? A. — Twenty-five feet six. In the fall ot the year vre draw as much as we can load the ship down to . The port warden tells us how deep \ve can go and some times we have to go a little lighter than what r.ur marks are and I hare had to call at Quebec to take on cargo. And further deponent saith not. A. W. a MACALI^TIiU, OlhcinI Slenogr&pher.. I, the undersigned, Ah>x. \V. G. Maoalistei, of the City and District >Q of Montreal Official Stenographer, on the oath I have already taken, do hereby declare. That the foregoing pages numbered from one to fourteen, and being fourteen pagt'S in all are and contain a true and faithful transcript of the evidence given in this matter by Captain Dorwood, the 2t! October, I'Jilfl. And I bave signed. A. W. G MACA LISTER. 0/fieiaf Slenografihar. 39 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN WILLIAM DUNLOP, OF THE STEAMSHIP "CORINTHIAN', ALLAN LINE. Taken the 26th day of October 1!>00. Examined by the Chairman. ■** Q.— What port did you sail trom this time ? — 140 — ill' A. — Liverpool. Q. — How long have you been in comniand of a steamer ? A — Fourteen years. Q.— How long have you been trading on the St Lawrence ? A. — Kiiihteen years as officer and master. Q. — What route did you take this time ? A.— Belle Isle. Q — Why did you go there — were you und<'r orders fram your owners ? 1% A — No definite orders, no. Q. — Well, suppose you were sailing from I^iverpool without any or- ders but the matter was left entirely to yourself, what route would you take in July, August or September ? A. — Bi'lle Isle — because to begin with it is shorter and it is just as safe ^specia'ly this time of year for you have praetie.ajlv no loi» in Sep- tember — it doesn't last any time — you may gel fog sometimes and this year I have lost about thirty hours by fog uf) North both going and coming and this is my third voyage through the straits. Q. — Well, in the appro.iches to Heile Isle is there anything you would 20 recommend as a further aid to the safe navigation oi the route ? A. — Yes sir, I should ask to have the soundings rovi,sed on that first bank. Q. — That extends how far from Belle Ihle ? A.— Well it is about thirty to thirty-five miles West. Norih, West and East.Soiith-liast pr.'tty near. Q. — You have soundiniis there ? A — Yes.but I wish to tell you that from my own personal know- ledge that bank > xiends further to the Sjuthward than it is charted and it is rather misleading to a stronger, but not to me, for I have notes of my ■^0 own soundings Q — You always sound in approaching that place ? A. — I have a very systematic way of sounding, and I find out thai that bank is not as charted, and it is a very useful bank in making Belle Isle in any weather. Q. — You would rather not have it away V A. — No sir, but I want it propjrly oh.irted. It I had my chart here 1 could show yju exactly what I mean. (A rat'ssenger is si'ui to the ship for the Captain's chart, and in the meantime the deposition i< continued with respect to other matters.) I ) Q. — Have you anything to say about extra lights on Belle Isle ? 141 — ! 10 A.— No— I think BelL' Isle is fairly well lighted. 1 haveji't yet heard the uew fog signal but I b-lieve it is a goo! one. Q. — Well, in coming down on the great circle track from Moville don't you go near the Norih East end of Belle Lsle ? A —Not necessarily — you can make a very nice circlo by making Bellf Isle about three miles distant. Q. — Are y«u not of opinion that a light and a fog signal on th ■ North East end of Belie Isle would be an advantage V A. — Yes, but 1 don't know as I would ask for it. But don't misun derstnud me when I say that there as so many other things that would be more useful. Q.— vVell, you think a light on the North East end of Belle I^le wouM be an advantage, with a fog signal ? A. — Yes sir, certainly with a fog signal. Q — What short of fog signal do you prefer ? A. — You must take into consideration that hou have already a siren on Belle Isle — It was fonmrly bombs Q.— And you think bombs are no use ? A. — I never said so — There seems to be something out Belle Isle that holds the sound I think II you put a fog-signal on the North — East cor- ner of Belie Isle it should be entirely different from the one on the light- house there. I should suggest a ten minute signal ol guu-cotton. Q. — The present light on Belle Isle.comiug a little South and making the entrance fairly well, is all that can be desired '? A.— Yes, sir. Q. — Is the light and fog-signal good on Cape Bald ' A. — Yes sir, very good. I have heard it often at from five to eight mi- les off. Q. — Well, proceeding down the Straits is everything all right ( A. — Well, that new light ou Flower laland is all right but there ^ should be a fog-signal there. Q. — How about the lighting ou the other side of the straits ? A. — 1 should suggest that the fog-signals on Greenley Island aud Point Amour should be more distinct and characteristic so as to be more easily distinguished. Q. — What are they now ? A.— Greenley Island is one blast at eighty seconds and the other is one blast at fifty seconds, and that is very much alike, and a man run- ning all the way from Heath Point might easily pass Greenley Island .0 4« w 1 — 142 without hi'ariiigthe fog-horns, mid so hi* is not a! all siuo wht'thor it is Gr»'enloy Island or Point Amour that he is listening lo, and then if h« tries to (ount, it isn't always easy. I think there should be two blasts on Greenley Island as against one blast on Point Amour. Q. — But you wouldn't enter the Straits if it was foggy at that eu- tran)d tliini; to have a buoy there and you would be much more likely to g.'l that than to get a light -ship. Q.— Well, what about South Point '? A. — I have in all my experience heard South Point but once, and I have known by my soundings that I have not been more than four miles from It -u a log By careful soundings you are absolutely sure of your Self there and I have only ht-ard it once and for tha' reason I think the best fog signal should be on Heath Point for it stands away from the land to a great extent and 1 believe you will (iiul that a fog horu there would carry farther. Q. — You might have it on both placis ? A. — Yes, sir if you please. Q. — Don't you think wh 'rever ther.' is a light there should be a fog signal ? A. Yes — I am only sugg.'sting that you improve the signal on Heath Point by making it a siren instead of a gun. Q. — Didn't there use to be a buoy between Heath Point and South Point V A. — No. The light house would be about North-West horn the buov and it lay about two miles from the shore Q. — After you pa.ss South Point, where do you steer for ? A. — Cape Magdalen. Q.--Your people don't allow you to go in the north Channel of An- OOBti i ' A. — I never heard the question mooted.but if left to myself I wouln't go that way. Q. — You say you steer for Cape Magdalen and not for Fami; Point '. A — Yes, but of course that includi's Fame Point in this way that you pass about five or six miles off there. Q.— Coming South you steer for Fame Point ? A. — Yes sir, that's a difl'i-rent thing. Q — What about the light at Fame Point ? A. — You have a very good light there, but a very curious one. There is a red fiash in that light and if you took away the red flash it would I 141 bt> UN good agiiiii. it \h a silly Ihiiig To it obsoiiroH th*' li^hl You htivu :'t good li^;ht and you go and sjioil it. Q — Have you a tog-horu there V A — No iiud I think Ihore should he one *^.— Of what nature ? A — Wt'ii.at Citpe Uosicr you hav«« a horn or a siren I think and hi Magdalen it is a horn, and I should make this one a horn but with two blasts. i4 —Well, is Capo Magdalen aU right ? 10 A — Yes, it is a very good fog signal On this voyage I heard it at least ton miles off. Q — And then at Cape Chatte :' A. — Yes. I have never heard the log signal there Q. — Have you pussed elose enough in the fog to h ive rea.son to hear it ? A -Yes. Q —And you think that fog-sigiud should be improved f A.— Yes. Q — And the next is Martin River ? 2% A. — Yes, it is a fairly good light Martin lliver oouies before Cape Chatte. There is no fog signal th'-re.but if you g t past Magdalen you can always make Cape Chatte Q —What abcul Matane, Metis and Father Point ' A —Father Point -should have a log horn insleid of an explosive, signal. I happen to know that th" pilots have a>ked h)r it for many - years. It is only a twenty minutes b)mb I lay there last voyage with . my pilot on board for an h .ur an I a half and they didn't oven take the trouble to fire the b)mb because they happened to know that I was there. And you have to go close in for a pilot and with a horn at cer- ;j() ta n inteivals you would always have the bearing of it and you could go iuto five fathoms of waier. But when you have to wait for twenty mi- nutes or as I did for forty minutes or an hour you don't know where you are at all as regards the bearing. < Q— Of course you ean run five or six miles in twenty minutes ? A. — Yes sir. My ea.^^e i.-* this : I was dead htopped waiting for the boat to come off and land my pilot and as far as knowing where the lighthoust! was or rathen how it bore I was helpless. Q. — Well now coming in south in the springs and fdl— If you were leaving liverpool on the 30th oi October would you come by Belle ,3 Isle y ^f — 145 A.— 11 1 could get to the Straits belbre the IDth oi' November 1 would. Q. — Going south, what have you to say about Cape Rioe ' A. — 1 think the power of the fog sigual should be iuereased. Q. — What is it uow V A. — It is a fog horn. Q. — Is theie a good lijiht there V A — It IS an eighteen mile light, but I think it should be iuereas^d in power for it doe.sn t penetrate. ^^ Q. — You have good soundings there in coming up to Cape Race Y A. — Good delinite boundings. Q — Well then, after you pass Cape Piue ? A. — We have every good light on Capo Race. Q. — Is there a log sigual there V A. — Nofsir, and 1 decidedly tluuk there should be one there. I might remark that the soundings on that ledge along there from Cape llaci- to Cape I'ine extend a littlt^ to the Southward of where the charts put them. We have a very good light now at Galautry Head. Q.— That's a French light V -U A —Yes sir, a first class light. Q — They are the best light going, are they not ? A.— Yes sir, they are belter than any tiling on the Coasi except per- haps Belle Isle. Q. — They are better than the Knglish or American lights, aren't they I A. — No sir, 1 don't think so. We are iraj)roving our lights very much at home. 1 might also say that the bank of St Peters runs a little further out the chart shows. Q. You are of opinion that a proper hydrographic survey of the Gulf •^•' is imperatively necessary ! A. — 1 am. U — Well proceed, please. A — Cape Ray isn't a bad light but the fog signal is very poor. Q. — Have you ever watched the Cape Ray light and taken the time ? A. — Yes, it is a little erratic. Q —II yon found that so woulil you log it and report ? A — I don't know thai 1 would. -It i^ well known that it is erractic Q— Well, after you leave Cape Ray ? A.— There is Bird Rock. Of course 1 should point out to you that th" 4V soundings there are absolutely correet. They are perfect all the way up 1 \ i 146 — and that is an aid to navigation especially to go up without seoing Cape Ray, the only thing is to make that K-dge and ♦.hen slant off again and you will pass twelve miles off Bird Rock Q— Well from Bird Rock ? A — You will steer for Fame Point taking in Rosier as you pass. Q. — Have you anything to say as to the navigation between Father Toint and Quebec V 4 — Havi I impressi'd upon the necessity of asking for a fog-horn a* 10 Father Point. That is the one thing I would like to have. Q We understand that — Anything between Father P)int .md Que- bec ? A. — A belter light on St La.vrence Point would be ;i very great im- provement especially if made di-tinctive, and there should be agis buoy off Bi'auport Sho.il They iir.' very useful things leavins; there with the glare of all the lights in Quebec II is a hard business to get abouiid that turn, and unnecessarily risky Q.— That is close to Quebec ? A. -Yes. 2§ Q. — Whit about the leading light on Orl"ans Island ? A. — Well, that is what I am talking at)out — St Lawrence Point is Or- leans Island. At present it is only a fixed light and you can't pick it our except by opening and closing it \\ iih St Johns light, and 1 would alter it to a flashing light and put a buoy in the bend here. Q. — A gas buoy ^ A. — Yes, it should be iias Put a gas buoy there. Q — Is it more difficult going out than coming in ? A. — It is a matter I'f tide. It depends on the tide — If you come in against the tid>s your ship is more under command. The only thing that ;;() makes it a liitle more dangerous going down is your deeper draught. Q. — Have you any suggestion to make going in ? A. — No I think everything else is all right, for you have the red ligts- the range lights when you can pick them up. Q. — And with these improvements you think it is all right? A. — Yes sir or yon can always have the St Lawrence Point astern of you until you get h )ld of the buoy and then you have the red range lights in Quebec. EXAMINKD KY Mb. REFORD : Q. — If the north ihannel of Auticosti was properly lighted would it ^ - not be of any service ? ir 147 ■|t>S;i A. — Well, I am not prepared to bay from moiuory the diHen'uce in the distance Q. — I have been told it is four hours that is about forty nuK^s. Would it make !>!iy differenee in certain weather ? A — The one thing as far as Anticos'i is convern"d that makes it per- fectly sate in passing there is thi' w \y that bank is otf that "oint. You wouldn't have a disMuolive bank north of Anticosti, and to my idea, that is against it, for if you go Soutli you c.in always drop off thut bank and you know exactly where you are and the distance uff the Island. That is 10 my experience. And 1 lail to s.-e how you can save forty miles by going North of Anticosti and the man who did that and went North would be tempted to hug lake the Labrador coast and it is a nas^y roast there, with a lot of little Islands and rocks. And in that case you would require a light near Wolfe Bay, I'or naturally if you light up the Northern side of Anticosti the man who takes that course would naturally take tde shor- test route possible Several times I have had a pretty hanl job g I ting up to St'Antoine above Quebec I think you should have a light on the Norjj shore there, say at Gro< Jean Q.--Thi.t is St Agustine ? 29 A.— Yes and it is very hard in a hazy morning. Three times running I have left Quebec about midnight and this time es()ecially our most dif- ficult time was in what should be the s ifest pirt of the river, for this rea- son : it was a most difficult thing to judire the distance between cither shore and we had actually nolhing to go by uniil we made this light and the buoy. EXAMI.VED BY THK CHAIRMAN. Q. — How do these buoys compare with English gas buoys - for in- stance the buoys going into Liver|)Ool ? A. — They are not as good, but they are not as good as those in the lower St Lawrence. If y >u get them as good as that they will do. Q. — Well, do you think it would be any aid to navigation to have some more gas liiioys in the St Lawrence : if your ship was not last enough to set here at night, woniil it he any advantage to have gas huoys from Longue Point to Montreal ? A. — Yes sir, with a couple of range lights as well Q.— Would you sugijest any change or addition to the day marks on the St. Liwrence in view of the snow-storms that are met with on the lower St. Lawrence i 43 ao 10 — 148 — A —Well make thuiu as distinctiv as possible. Q — Can you suggest how to make them distinctive ? A — Up to now you have always done so with horizontal or vertical bars, black or white.but all the light-houses are very small and not easy to pick up in snow. Q— If they could be m«de more distinctive wouM it be a good thing ? A.— Certainly. Q. — Now as to the intervals between signals, do you think the inter- vals are short enough on the lower St Lawrence Y A. — No, I already said so in speaking of the twenty minute fog si- gnals, and in suggesting a fog signal on the North Ea.«t point of Belle lile 1 asked to have it mot more than a ten minute interval. Q— Generally speaking what should tho interval be ? A. — Aoout ten minutes is a very lair one. Q. — Are you much bothered with snow iu the fall i A. — Yes, we run a chance of getting heavy snow-storms. Q. - What time of the year do they commence ? A. — 1 have had the first one now. It practically snowed all the way Irom Heath Point to past Magdalen. Q. — Which do you consid'T the moie dangerous of the two ? Snow or fog y A. — I don't know that then- is much to ("boose but I fancy that sound does nut carry so far in snow as in fog. Q. — You said just now that you thought it was highly desirable that a thorough survey of the gulf should be made now, as the charts in so many instances are not correct ? A. — Yes, sir, to my own personal knowledge. Q.^ — Speaking ol log signals generally, which do you prefer V A — I prefer a fog- horn vvhererer it can be used, -that is wherever it can be made distinctive enough. You mut not get mixed up and that is why we must sometime have an explosive signal. It is somewhat hard to make them distinctive, but it can he done — 1 will giv(! you an instance in your own river, -There is a fog horn i>ii the light-ship at Red Islaad, and one on White Island and one at Cape Silmou and all easily enough dlsti^ltfui.■^lu■d. You wili probably be told by the government or by somebody that it is a mistake to h.ive fog signals on all these light- houses, but 1 siiy it is easy enouiih to make thein characteristic, and there is no man who has been lunning at all but who is bound to know within a few miles whore he is, if he is so near the land as he is all the •tu way up from Heath Point to Quebec -'U 80 10 20 o(J - 149 — Q. — Now long ago is it since this autoinatii: buoy Vfas ofl' Aniioosti ? A. — It was not autoinatif, - It was an oidinary l)uoy, but I suggest that then- should be an automatic buoy put in the >»-anie place as the buoy used to be. I think it has been gone for six or seven years. Q. — Have you ever been to Haltimoreor I'hihidelphia ' A. — 1 know Phihidelphia very well Q.— Is Pliiladelphia niort; easily aeachcd than the St Lawrence ? A. — It is not any more sal'ely reached, l)Ut the 8l Ijivvriuice calls for a little more care and a good deal more ol" the master's time. Q. — It is a harder river lor the master ? A. -Yes. Q. — Have you evei been to Boston ? A — Yes sir — Boston so long as you can see is a very good hiubor,bul you should never at'empl to go into Boston pist the ledg-s Wh'H y>)U make tuem t^o back Q. — You have been to Portland ? A. — Yi's. and that is the simih' thing — either in fog or snow you < an only do on • thing and that is stop ana go ba(;k. Q — Do you think it is a more dangerous entrance than Boston ? A —I don't know — It must be eight or nine years sini;e I have been in Boston and I believe there have been a good many improvements since I have been there. But I consider Portland a very safe harbor to go in and out of Q. -The insurance companies dont like it since the Cas ilian and Californian came to griel there ? A. — There are bound to be accidents occasionally in all trades, and there are just as many in Philadelphia and there used to bi' more. Q. — You stated that the o;ie thing you would like to have would be a fog-hnrn at Father Point ' A. — Yes, I wanted to emphasize that. Q. -You didn't mean to say that that was the only thing you want- ed to have ? A. — Not by any means; tor I hive asked for several things — That buoy ofl'Beauport for one thing. I think it is a very n 'oessary thing and I certainly think Point St Lawrence light should be altered as well. Q. —Leaving the port of Montreal have you any improvements to sug- gest ? A.— No, I don't know,except widening one or two channels, and that will take time. 43 i 10 20 oO n — ir)0 — Examined uy Mu. Hond Q- The charts of which yoii spokf have now ui rived lroii> ihi* hhij) ? A— Yi's sir. Thi>< is in ri'huion to the necessity ol' a fresh survey This line of soundings from abreast (jf (Irenley Island extending \\'v>i magnetic is iroiu tluie to four miles further to the Nurlliwanl ilian it is charied, mid I wish to emphasize it for we are so mueh dep>udiut on our soundingn coming up here I have charts of my own with my own soun- dings in red ink, but I had no notice about thi-- investigation and I am not able 10 say (piite positively Q — Would you mind letting one of your men making a cojiy ol thai and let us |)nt it in evidencp ? A — It is in Liveipool Supi>osing a stranger or anyone is trusting to those soundings, making (JJreenley Island the said soundings will jfut him more to the Northward than the chart givi's instead of passing or making Greenley Island a safe distance off, he will come up and pis- it about a mile or two miles off. 1 haven't kept this to mysell hut I have told all my officers. It is only by experience that wc know these things and I have told everyone about it that I have come across aid 1 told the Honorable Mr. Dobell and showed liim the chart and r ■pe:ited it to him less than a year ago. The bank that l)ears West Noilh Wes' magnetic to B'Jle Ish'. or a> T might perhaps belter express it, the bank which bears Kast Soutti Ka-t Jrom Belle Isle, extends, to my k'lovvledge, from six to eight miles, further South tliiin it i> charted. — certainly six miles, and where you have on the chart l-'il fathoms you will find you cm •;el !'0 to IT) fathoms, and that is a most important thing, for you go into Belle Isle on the circle and you always look for the bank. It is very useful for oven if you dont get it you know you are to Southward, and the distance is so short from the bank to Belle Isle only a few miles, to the Southward is a great deal to a man if it hazy weather.and that is why I say it should be thooughly sur- veyed I 1 aii't say from my own soundtngs, but I have passed fishermen at am hor twenty mi!e,> to the Eastward of the bank which shows that there ar. soundings th"re, but I haven't found them. This is my own per- sonal experience I am giving you. It is positive information. Q. — Would you also consider a general survey of the Gulf as neces- sary in addi'ioiial to these particular point? that you name ? A. — I can show you on ! he Admiralty Charts a note by which we are told not to put any faith in the soundings, it is a scandal that's what it 18 - 151 — Q. — livon ill llalirux uruiiml thi' harbor Ihf souiuliiigi^ arc not Ui It*- relied oii.uiid ho well do the Adiniraily know it ihiU tliey say .-o on their churtH. And hirlher deponent riiiilli not A. W. (i. MACALlSTKli, Otiicial i>leni>grti)>li:i'. 1, the underhiiiiied, Alex VV^ G-. M.iculister, oi" tlie City and District of Montreal, OHieial Stenographer, upon the oath I have already taken do hereby deiven in thi« matter by Captain Dtiiilop by me taken by means of stenography, the whole in the manner and form refpii- red by and aecording t<» law And 1 have (jigned A. VV. a MAC'ALISTIili, 0/ficfol Slr.niiffrdpher. The foregoing juiges an- a laithful transcript of my evidence, the alte- rations I have made and initiilled myself Ihare ausWiMvd the last, ques- JO lion in its broader sent^e, the Gulf proper i.> of course inside Cabot straitN Williain iJunlop. 10 DKroSITlON OF CAPTAIN WILLIAM ROLL'), OF THE STEAMSHIP "TUITONI A". 30 Given on the 26th day of October, 1!H)0. EXAMINKD UY Mk liOWU, IN THE ClIAlK. Q. — You were examited on or about the li.'.rd of October in rejar 1 to what improvements were advihuble for the safe navigation of the St Lnv- rence ? A.-Yes. Q. — And you were sent a copy of your evidence as taken down by the stenographer — will you state whether the copy now shown you and fyled as Exhibit 3 is a correct trauscriptiou of what you stated ? w ir.2 - A. — N<», Iht'if arc iiiiiiiy lliiiij^s Iuti- tliiil air ikiI wliiil I stalcil Q. Ilii you ind'cr h. he rc-cxiiiiiincd on thf wliolti iiiiill<'r nr to cdi- rt'i;l your dcpoNii ion / A. lic-i'xuriiimMl \>y all iin-aiis (^- How loiif^ liavc y(tu Im-ch in ill'' Si liawii'iir.' I r.uji- '' A --Alxml I \vi'iily-li\ >■ ycar^ in a .>l anii-r all lln' liiin'. Q - -Now K"'"" "" •' N''"'li s'nt li^hl on Urllf ImIo *i In yonr i'Xi"'i i'lii I', ill approindiiiij^ Mi-ll' isle (»n lln'giciil cin'ln I nil k where as a rule do you lind yniirselj' in the Nort li or lo i he S »nl h ' A- -To th.' North mostly (i- - y\nd when yon ^ft to ihe North oilhi' Island in those riis^s y ni Np('ak ol', is ii [)o>Hilt|e rroiii yoiir \'essi'l to see the light on the Soiuli o| Ihe Island ' 2li A. -No sir, i' is not Q — Now, will you inia'jine yourseH'oii your ship eoniiii'^' U|i ihe Si Livvvri'nee iil'lor you h,i\t' j'as-eil the Island ami state what, improVeniiMits, il'iiny, yon think eould he made in the vvay (d' liifhts oi huoys or sirens or signals (d any kind :* A — Wtdl the Straits oi I!. -lie j^le alter you enter ihein are all right ;'o(>d lighlsand gond jog si'^nids all ihontrh ilie Straits 1 cuuldn't siig gest any in^proV'•lnent^ t here hiniiig a liuhl on the North end ol' ihe Island willi a good log signal Q -How ahoni i'oint Amour ^ A. -There is a good light ihei'' a fixed of eo use hut it i-, ;i good lighl if the weiiiher is in a e.oudition to see it (^ -In pasdng these dillerenl jioiiit^ on ih • coast is there anything at all ihal you wonhl snguesl in the w ly ol an iinpiovfment / A- TheS'lail h;i\'e heen re-sllixeyed lately, and ih're Is a veiy good sounding iharl ol' t he Siraiislhal has I n 'lo !'• in t he last ihr'^e y('ar>. are very iriegiilar. I I The only thing that you can lell hy sounding is where you ar.' lo Ihe \Vt:t*tward or liislward ol'thf ^track, htiCauHt! il you get to iho Ki.stwurd ;i(» f I 153 -- 10 :i() n of the tiMck you get no bottom tit kU. And then as high up as Cape Whittle I recommend a powerful light there, right at the corner I the laud. Q. — Well. supposing that pa>t Cape Whittle there was a haze and the weather was thick and you couldn't see the light V A. — Well, there is Cape Whittle banK .vhich we could sound over. Q. — You would limit the improvement to a light or a fog signal as well V A.— Most decidedly a ib^ signal at the same time for nine times out often it doesn't blow when there is a fog Q. — Speaking generally do you believe in not ha\iug a fog signal where you have a light or d) you b'lieve in always having OU'- where there is a light ^ A. — There should be a fog signal at every light house. (^J — Where do you make for after you piss Cape Whittle ? A. — Heath Point—Thiit light as long as the weather is all right will do well enough. It is a fixe 1 light, but I nelieve a ilashing light there would certainly improve it very ranch, or a revolving light A ftash makes one flash very quick, and a rcvnlviug light takes a cestain number of seconds to makethe circle altogether. Q — Is there a buoy ? A. — Not uow. Ther." used lo be one marked on our charts but havn't seen it for years, but I don't think it was any irojd there What good Was it in the dark ? And I don't think any one wou'd steer for a buoy to run through at any time We would rather trust our .lead. Q. — Have you anything further lo suggest ? A. — The log signal should b^' i-haiiged There is a gun there a present and the l't>n horn would certainly be much Ijetter. Q. — What idea have you in rcj^ard to the ad visibility of hiving a light-ship outside Heath Point ' A. — It would be a good thing it it would stay there. Q. — But assuiiiiiig that it could ha go to stay there ^ A — It would be a good thing because vessels would b' enabled then, instead oi sieerinu: to make Heath Point, to steer t'urth"rotf, for it would be placi'd rti)out ten miles otf and they would always steer a course to go ouiside of that. Q. — Would it have to be a honi of some kind V A. — Yes, or it would be no goad. Q. — Where do you make for after you leave Ile^th Point ? A.-— Souih Point, that is to pass four or five miles ofl'.- South Point is all right, tliere is a good revolving light there and the soundings are right ill - 154 — there, you lould keop your.-ell' oit' the land there by the soundings. Then we generally steir across te Magdalen ; some masters steer for Fame Point but I always fctoer for Magdalen. Q. — What have you to say about that ? A. — Well Fame Point light wants to be improved in the worst way. That is the one belore Magdalen They say there is a red flash in it but 1 have Jiever seen it - If it was a powerful red flash, both red and white you eould see it but at the same time you can tell it is a light and that is all If It is a poor led flash it would b- better to have no n-d flash at all. If) 1 would ehange its character ami make it a fl.is'aiug light. Q. — You would obliterate the red ? A. — Yes sir, for the ui'Xt one to it has a red i'lash also Q. — You say you don't make for Fime Point going from South Point. A. -No. (^. — That is an objective point from where ? A. — From the South we steer f ^r Fame Point. Q. — As a matter of importance how doe,< it compare with other lights i A. — It is of great importance because it is one of the first lights you ..^, see coming np Q. —Well, i>roceed and make any suggestions ? A. — Magdalen light is the next one and revolves red and white two minutes eaeli flash. I consider that far too long for it is very rarely that we can see tln^ red flash and then it is four minutes to wait b'fore you get the white one again and in my o|)inion that should b- chang.-d to a miuut<' each time it revolves and that would be only two minuter you would have to wait for the white flash even if you did not see the red. Q — Have you passed near Magdali-n and these other points where there are f ly horns in thick weather V A. — Yes sir, the last trip going down and I heard Magalen blowing all right. 1 was only two inili's off the land there. Q — Do you consider t!ie fog horn in the (jriilf weak or loud enough generally ? A.. — Some arc very good. The log-horns in the Straits of H.'lle-Isle are very g)od, but ihcs'/ ones up h m- • arc not so powerful. (^ — That is in Magdalen and vicinity • A. — Yes sir, all the way up the coast. Approaching liic from Magda- len ih.re is no log horn atier you pass Magdalen until you get to Bic and Martin River is a lixcd light - There should be a powerful fog hor.i there also. r,(» -^apiBixjr mwf 155 - i i. Q. — What is your opinion as to the relative value ol' fixed lights as compared with revolving or flashing. A— They should all he revolving or flashing. We are changing al the lights on our side from fixed tu revolving as hi.st u.s the light boats cunget them changed. Q. — Are there any soundings that you can rely on on that coast V A. — No mounding-, all that way ironi Fame Poiu! to Matane that any shipmaster can rely on Q.— Then you have to' rely absolutely on the fixed lights and the fog 10 signals ? A. — Yes sir and there are none from there so it makes it very awkard in thick weather. Q. — And then you get to CapeChatte. A.^Yes. <.^. — Do yon want a Hashing <>r revolving light and fog signal at Ma- lane Kivir V A. — In my opinion it would be better, but Cape Chatti- is a revol- ving light and .Magdalen, so that is a fixed light b -tween th.'m. Cape Chatte is a bomb also every twer.ty minutes and I think that is too long :>.i Q. — VVhiit do yon lliink is the shortest interval there should between a fog signal i A — A fog horn should be kept going constantly and variation in the blasts, that is one would be every thirty seconds and another forty and another fifty, and by counting the number of seconds in the blai^t you can distinguish them. Q— Well, proceed ? A — C.ipe Chatte should be altered to a shorter time in foggy weather They ^hould u^e one of those bombs every five minutes or so if they still keep that thi're. Q. — Wh:it do you think of bombs ? A. — You can't tell where they are ; one man will say "It is here" and another will say "It is there". Q - What do think is the best signal V A — A siren or a fog horn. - Then Matane light is a fixed light and there is no four signal. Q — Whar next ? A —Metis IS a reTolviug light every two minutes with a red light and it is hard to see. Q. — W^ould you suggest any change there ? A. --You could improve the light by making them stronger. Q. — Well, proceed up the river 1 oO 4U ■y — 156 - i A. — Father Poiut is a Hashing light and a very good light too hiuoe it was improved within the last two years. Q.— Is there anything else wrong ? A — Yes I would recomineud another lo<^ sign.il there. It is a bomh there and I have passed Father I'oint within three miles and never heard the bomb, and after I was past it w'ith the wind in the East I have heard the bomb i^V — Have you had any trouble in gelling a pilot f A. — It depends on the weather. It' it is bad it is hard to get them 10 sometimes, but never if the vveathi-r is good. Q. - Can you suggest any improvement or change i:i the manner of getting pilots at Father Poiut V A. — If they get that wharf they are building now it will he all right. Q.- Well, goon up the liver i A.— The lights u[) the river I'roui Father Point Bio is the first light and there is a good signal there The next is the Red Island light ship on li''d Island reef. That is a very good mark too and she a good log signal ihert', and there is a light on Red Island itself whieh is very good too. There is no need f(jr any change there but Green Island can be improved •29 imniensly for there are bombs there too, and there is too Jong between them and with your course and the tide you will be through between the bonib.s in going dovrn the I'hannej runs almost Fast and Wes-t there when a ship is bound down, and going up there is an alteration It is worse going down. Q — What would you suggest ? A.- 1 would suggest that the fog signal be changed and that the bomb should be lired every live minutes. Q —That is at Gieen Island ? A. — Yes sir, and then on Cape Salmon there is a light there — a new thing also. I am on I he North Shore now which steanu^rs didn't use to use forineily but no use entirely. There is a good fog horu there, which is a great assistance to navigalit))!. Q. — Have you any improvements or i hanges to speak t)f before you get to Quebec '^ A — Well, the travirse yow know, where we begin really the narrow naviiration. there should b ■ improvements made there Ibr instance if they put down some gas buoys there it would be of great assistance. There it one there already on vvhiif we call the Middle Island and it is w great help in the nightime, and more could be placed to advantage. Q. — In the traverse? A. — Yes sir, the upper a«.d lower end. And all along Green Island. ;,■() + j ril> rd id tti ol It. ht lit al f) ■d •11 ic re is il> vv to is et - 157 — il^ There are two gas buoys there but I bilieve one or two more would be ol service there. Of course (liut is pilotage water mid we don't know as much tibout thai as they do. Q. — As a matter of fact can you speak with accuracy as to what if any impr»)vements should be made between Father Point and Montreal V A —No, I wouldn't undertake to come up from Qu^'bec mysi-lf. but I would in a moment from Father Point to Quebec. Q. — Have you anything further to remark ? A. — In enterinsj the harbor of Quebec at night it is very awkward 10 since the City is lit up with those electric lights. The glare darkens eve- thing and I think they should put two leading lights on Orleans Island where we would always see lh»-m either astern or ahead. Q. — That is all you have to fay until you get to Quebec t A-Yes Q — You would use these lights both g'ing into Quebec and leaving Quebec ? A. -Yes Q — Wnere would you put them V A.— On Orleans Island 20 Q — Where abouts * A. — To suit the channel. That would be for the engineers to decide Q — And you would use them as leading lights coming and going out ? A.— Yes coming in and going out you would run until you gvit them in one. Q,--l suppose you are not in a position to speak as to the water be- tween Quebec and and Montreal V A. — The only part of the River whi.^h is safe for a big ship to navi- gate in the dark is from Quebec to G-randine and a few more gas buoys CQ placed there would bi' cf great service to the pilots at night. Q. — Where do you mean by "there" ? A. - From Point aux Trembles to Grrandiue You are passing through a narrow channel all the time and all the way round St Uroix Bay it is dark and having to be guided f)y the land there is very little to guide the pilot,^, b'lt a gas buoy or two there would be of great service and another one just before you i^et t.» (xrandine to approach the an;h »rage if a buoy was placed on the elbow ot the turn there you would know where to turn up to anchor. Q.— You have nothing further to say in regard to that V . A. — I ( an't siiy anything past that. The river is much improved to what it was in former years. There are a great many more buoys bu- — 158 - is very ri.>ky going down with u big Nhip if you hiippmi to b.^ ctiughl in n fog. Q — Now suppose you w*'r«' coining into the St Lnwrencc by Cupe Race — imagine yourscH' and ship coining in ihut Wiiy — will you give us any sugge.-tioiis y )U have to make as to any change or improvemi'iit that could take place f A —The light is all right and there is a good fog horn. There in nothing wrong at Cape Rhco. Ihit Cipe Pino is a fixed lii,'ht and 1 think it should be changed to a ilabhing light and a fog signal put on it 10 ^i — There is none there now ? A —No, sir. Q. — And you think there should be one f A. — Yes Kir of course, and then (he next light is Cape (ralantry, and it is a good light and a good fog horn at least I have heard .so. Q. — How do our Canadian lights compare with the French lights on Galaniry Head ? A— Cape Race and Cape Pine are just as good, but I think they were bnili by the Oid country. Q. — How do the Other lights compare ? . A. — The light.s on Langley Island or Miquelon don't compare at all with Cape Gvlantry Q.— Taking the lights as a lot, are they equal to the lights on (J-a- lanlry He;id A. — No.ihey havn't the power. Q. — Whit is your opinion as to the power of our Canadian lights ? A. — Well, taking lights generally iu the Gulf, thev havn't the same power as the lights of Cape Race. Q— What should they be ? A. — All leading lights .-hould be of the first order. 80 Q— Well, now will you just proceed with your Ship —Where is your next yoint ? A. — It is Cap Ray — We have been running to Sidney for coal aud that tike> us away more to the South and the lights there .ire very poor more espacinlly Flint Island. That is the most miserable light I every looked at Q. — What have you to suggest ? A —Flint Island is a light said to revolve every fifteen seconds and I looked at it for half an hour aud never saw it revolve yet Q — Well, what do you think should be done ? 4U — ir,o — A I lliiiik t)i)> li^litiii^r iiutliDi'ilii'.s should know whiit. would ri'Nlil'y Ihiit I aid iiol an t'lijriiict'r Q. — l)o you liiid tlic litflit huliii i.'iilly jroonli'ani'<' of Sydiuiy Ilarhor and 10 the wollifi'H ail- ail li^liird up with oitH^tru', li^iii and il in iiard to tell it Iroin oiii' oi' lh)'tn (} What do yon hUjLf^'cHt ' A ' (!lian^(' il5« I'liaraiit'i' and niak*- il a Mashing I>k''' .sitc nidi- ol tilt' harhor and tho ini'ii in lln- tr. il<* it'c tiinniMid lliit it l> ; (^hanged oviT t«» whi'if lh»' lif^lil honm- is I can't say lor iny-icdl for ! halu'n'l hft-n tht'n' in l'oo you iiri'd ihcni yoiirHoli !" A -- Ciitiiinly thry an- of assistancr, goin^ u|i in lln' dark ? (^.- A 'I' tliry lll■^^'^sa^y / A- Yi'M, Ihi'y an- in'ri'ssaiiy lor s.tl'i' navigation (-1 llavi' you aiiyihing to say ahout what sliMild hi' doiin with Ihnsi' A- No, thry ari' vrrv w laK in powrr, hut 1 don't Nuppose ihi'y will alter thi'Mi I'ur lln'y an- only int.Midi-d |>rinci)ially lor tlii' lisht'rrnt'n. — Do you know il thiTr is a log signal llnT*; ? A.— No, sir. (^.- Should I hiTi' 1(1' oni' ? A YiH sii, lor tin- roal lra(h'. 1^. — Now whi'ic do you make lor { .J A, Ihr-l Ko. kh. I ■I 160 — JO Q. — Well uow, to return and suppose that we had taken our departure Irom Galaiitiy Point your next point would be Cape Ray ? A —Yet?; sir. Q -Have yon any remarks to make about that ? A -I have always thoaifht Cai)e Uay light is placed too far West. You can't see it before you get the Gulf open. Q. — Have you considered the matter sufficiently to sta^e where the light should be V A - It should be here at I'ort Basque. Thoy have a snaiil light there ]{) now but it is no use for big steamers navigating there It is only intented for the steamers running across there to go into that harbor. Q.-- Apart from your idea that the location of the light should be changed, have you any remarks to make V A. — Citi)e Ray light i- a good light, but it is in a bad position. Q.- H I he light cannot be changed have you any remark as to what should be done with Port Basque light to improve it ? A. — Miike it stronger. Q — How about the signal on Cape Ray i A —There is a fog horn there. Q — Have you heard it ? A. — In my opinion it would be bettiT at Port Basque. Q. — Is it loud enough Y A. — Yis, It is all right at Cape Ray. Q — ^nd then comes the Bire Rocks ? A — Yes, there is a gun theie or a homb it is now. That light should also b ' changt'd to a revolving light It is nor a fixed light and you are liable to mistake it lor a fisherman's light if there is a little hiize, and a powerful fog horn, on the Rocks. «.^ — Then your nt xt point is, where V A —Up to Fame Point. Q.--V0U have dealt with Fame Point ■* A.— Yes. Q— Have you taken sufiicient .'•oundings in the Gulf of 8t Lawrence and in the Str.iits to be able to state whether the soundings as given on the charts are correct V y\. — W'll. I lii'.ve sounded mostly every place there is a bank. The Bird Rocks hank is all rii^ht and you can approach within a mile of the Biid Rock^i by soundinjis. And Heaih Point is all right, but in the other parts of tlie Gull umil you get to Matane yon can't place anv dependence on soundings. <<(J Q — Do you suggest a hydrographic survey 1 m — 161 - 10 •20 A. — Yes sir, it is very important, for it is so many yoars since it was surveyed that you don't know what changes there are iu the soundings. The Straits have all been re-surveyed lately and there is a very great dif- ference between the old charts and thf new ones. Q. — In the lower St Lawrence going up or going down during the part of I he year in which snow-storms prevail, do you find it easy to see the land marks ? A. — When the laud is covered with snow you can't pick them up at all Q. — How could they b.' made so that you could pick them up more easily '? A.— I am sure I do not know what to recommend lor that. Q. — Have you any .suggestion at all to make iu regard to that ? A — I don't see that I can. The ouiy difference you could make is in the painting and I suppose one paint is as hard as the other in snow. Q. — Is it a fact that it would be advisable to make these marks more distinctive V A — Yes sir, all Grulf light houses now have distinguishing marks on them already. Q. — Bit to make thetn more promiu -nt and so that they could be more easily .scimi in the day time in the snow season would be a benefit V A. — Yes it would certainly be a benefit fo navigation. There is one thing I would like to suggest : as you will notice by the chart on the South shore there arc no soundings all the way from Gaspe to Mata- ne, no Boundings to rely on, and it is absolutely necessary to put fog signals along that coast to guide the ship. EXAKINKD BY Mr GeaB : Q. — In going eastward, after you leavo Cape Magdalen and point for y S uth Cape is there any improvement that you have to suggest as you approach South Pcint ? A — No.sir. Q. — Is a buoy any good there ? A. -It would be no use unless it was a light buoy and you couldn't depend on the light remaining there. You can't see buoys in the night you know Q.— Whiit if it was a bell buoy ' A. — You wouldn't hear it in time to clear it in the night timn. And turthir deponent saith uol. A. W. G. MACALISTEK, Official SleHographer. + 5 1^1 lit ' iin 10 — 1G2 — [ ihe uiidersignk'd, Alex. W. G. Macalister, of the City and District of Moiitioal, Official Stenographer, upon the oath I have already taken do hereby declare that thefore going pages numbered Irom one to eighteen and being eighteen puges in all, are and contain a true and faithful transcript of the eviden(!e given in this matter by Captain Rollo by me taken means of stenography. And I have signed. A. W. G. MACALISTEIl, Official Stenographer. DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN WILLIAM STITT, OF THE STEAMSHIP " ALCIDES " Taken this 30th day of October 1900. Examined BY the Chairman. Q.- What port did you sail from ? A. — Glasgow. Q - How long have you been trading in the St Lawrence as master ? A. — Two years. Q. — Had you been here before that ? A.— No I never was in Montreal but I have been as far as Quebec be- ••'^ fore «H' the light at all. ThtTi- should be a light at east Cape. (f — Do you think a buoy would be any use at Heath Point ? A — No, becau^e as a rule in a fog we ean't see it. Q — An automatic buoy ? 10 A. You can't ht ar tiiein any distance in a fog. Q. — Alter you round H^ath Point you make lor South Point ? A. — Yes, it is a very good light there and a very fail foghorn. Q.— What kind of a light is on Heath Point ' A. -A fixed light Q —Would il not be better to have that light Hashing ? A. — Yes 'hey are the best. You can pick them up far better. Q. — After leaving South Point what i)oint do you steer for V A. — Cape Magdalen ii —Not Fame Point V 20 A. — No not coming from Belle Isle. Coming South you steer lor Fame Point a few miles oli. Q — Is there a good light there ? A —No ,'ht on Port Basque ? 4 3 ■ ii— B t there is no power. — IGO — Q. — "Would A powt'ilul liglu oil I'ort Hasque miikt' navigation better? A. — I would move that Cape Ray light farther Hast to Duck Island. Q.— Wouldn't it he li'lter to trj' and got a light on Duck Island and leave tht' other where it is ? A. — Yes.oi' course that would be better. t^ — Wi'll, alter you pass Cap Kay what next ? A —The Bird Roeks— That is all right i). — lluve you evt-r heard the gun ot Bird Kocks ? A.— I heart! it ome I think 10 (^ —Would a fog-whistle he better ? A.— Yes Q — What have you to say about Sydney:" A — "Well, there is a light on Flint Island which is a very bad light You can t see it for any distance at all And there is a fog signal on Cranberry Head which would be better alongside the light at Low Point. Q. — Will lln'U you steer for Rosier or Fame I'oint ? A. -Yes Q. — \f!er you leave Father Point, between there and Quebec have you anything to suggest ? .(., A.— No, I think the pilots have a better knowledge of the place than we have. Q. — What about the Western end of Orleans Island - Don't you wan't a leading light there ? A. — We wiuit two lea.ling lights there. Q— When does your snow commeiu e in the (lulf ^ A — I have st'eii snow in Oelober in the Belle Isle route. Q — Do you prefer snow or log ? A. — That all de])ends on what sort of snow you get Q. — Which gives the most dilliculty ? ;^^j A. — I dont think there is any choii e between them. Examined hy Mk Campueli, Q. — Would you recomtnend more distinctive day marks on the light- houses in the Gulf ? A — 1 don't think painting the light house is uiy good for the snow covers it up. (). — Now, would it do to have a pole with a distinctive mark of some kind on the top Y A.— That might do. 4tJ — 1G7 — Q.— J)o you have much more fog in November going clown the Gulf and much nore snow than going up the British on your way to Glasgow? A. — We get more fog on the other side as a rule thau we do here. Q — Do you think it is much more dangerous going from Fa- ther Point to Cape Ray than to go up the British Channel with the enor- mous uumber of steamers you have there ? A— No, sir, Q —How do you thitik these lights in the Gulf and the Straits oom- [»ire with the American lights ? 10 A. — Our lights are not so powerful. Y— Weil should they be more powerful ? A.— Certainly. Q — So you think our lights are much inferior to the American lights? A.— Yes. Q. — Have you noticed that the lights on St Pierre und Miquelon are more powerful than the lights on the Newfoundland coast ? A — Yts, Gallantly Head is h better light bul that is a good one on Cape Gaspe. It is rather out of our road bul on a clear night you can se« it a long way off .1,, Q.— Which way will you go home ? A.- By Cape !»'ace Q — When do you sail ? A, — The first of November. Q — Why do you go by Cape Race ? A.— Instructions. If the matter was left to myscK I would «ro bv Belle Isle? ' ° KXAMINED BY Mr Ge.\R : Q.— Going in by the Straits of Belle Isle.and approaching lleathPoint have you any suggestion to make regarding light ship buoys or anything else ? Q— Well I think there should be a light on East Point. Q —What about a light ship ? A. — Well, the job is holding one there. (v> —Supposing it .ould be held there would it be a good thing to havt one in twt my fathoms of water ? A.— Certainly— with a good fog .signal oulsid.- the danger you Would have light and log sij^iiiil outsid«' the danger Q —Have you any opinion to express regarding the lights and fog- 4u signals from Sydney up the Cape Breton coasts ? — 1G8 lu 20 80 A — Well there are two lights at Inguish Island, luul one light on Cape Norih. That light is supposed to be a twenty-one mile light Weil it is ovei two hniidit'd feet high and on a clear night we can see it at a distance hut it there is any haze on I have been within seven miles of it and could not see it. It is a poor light and there is not a log signal there. Q —In approaching the Bay of Fundy hare you my suggestion to make regarding aids 'o nnvigation ( A — Yes. Cape Sable lijuht is a very fair light, but it is about two a half miles inside of the outside danger, and he for the fog s-ignal, xvell iheie is no fellow that has a head on hi-; shoulders who will try to find it in a fog and I think if there were a light ship in twenty— or twenty five fathoms ofFtliere and a good fog signal it would be a good thing. Q— What is the n-xtV A —Seal Island light — Thiit is a good light and thero is a signal there. Then comes th»' Lntcher Shoals. There should be a light ship there with a good fog signal and there is only one of those whistling buoys. vl- — And after that '■' A. — That South Reef by Brier Island. There should f>e a light-ship there with a fog-signal From there to St John it is a clear run. Q. — How abotit tlu' entrance t<> St John ; A. — There is a very poor light at Musquash. Q. — That is all you have to recommend ? A. -Yes. Q. — Coming out from St. John have you any improvements to recom- meud or will those answers which you have mentioned i A. — Yes, those ought to aid the navigation out. Q.— What about Halifax ? A. — I have never been there. And further deponent saith not. A. W. G. MACALISTER, Official Stenographer. I, the undersigned, Alex. W. Gr. Macalister, Official Stenographer, upon the oath which I have already taken do hereby declare that the foregoing pages numbeied from one to ten and containing ten pages, are and con- tain a true and faithful transcript of the evidence given by Captain Stitt in this matter. And 1 have signed. A. W.G. MACALISTER Official Stenographer. 43 on oil a i; re. to A'O ell id ty >p — IG!) — DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN GllIFFITH C EVANS, OF THE STEAMSHIP " LAKE SUPERIOR" 10 ■A oU Takeu this SOfh day of Octobor, 1900. Examined by the Chairman. Q. — How long have been in command ? A. — Three years. Q — And how long running to the St Lawrence '? A. — As olfioer and Captain for nearly sixteen years. Q. — What Port did you sail from this time ? A. — Liverpool. Q — Which route did you take ? A. — Belle Isle on account of the saving of distance. Q. — Don't you as a rule make better weather North ? A. — I olten think so. Q.— Have you any suggestion to make as (o lights or fog -signal at Helle-Isle ? A.— 1 think we need a good fog -- signal at the North End of the Island Q.— And a light too ? A. — A light would be very useful too.but a fog signal is the most im po:tant Q.— That is the North East end ? A.— Yes. Q,— How is the lighi on the Newfoundland Coast, Cape Bald / A.— It is a good light, and so is the Belle-Isle light.a good light. Q — Have you a good fog-siirnal there ? A —Yes, I haven't happened to hear this new fog-signal, but I think it is a goi)d Mgnal. It must be better than the gun. Q — You have never heard it ? A. — No, it was only put in lai?t fall. Q. — Do you think it there was a light on the North East end of Belle Isle it would he any inducement for you to go North '( A —It would be just as easy to go North as South. Q. — )iul there are dangerous reefs there ? A. -Yes. 4U — 170 — .'0 Q. — Ik) you tliiiik that is any reason why thero shouhl not he a light there ? A.— No I think that is a reason that there (should be one there. Q — Is it not a fact that in thick weather you make up North oftener than South !* A.— Yes. Q — And you cannot see this light as it is now 'f you are four or five njiles to the North / A— No, it is shut in by th<> Island. The only thing is that up Norih 10 you strike a bank of soundings about thirty miles off" there at about ninety tathoms If you are a little south of your track you cannot make any soun- dings at all until you get close in. Q.— Do yon think it would be more dangerous to goto the North part of the Island than the South '? A —Not wiih a light there and clear weather. I would not attempt to j^o through there in loggy weather. Q. — Would it be any more dangerous than goincr South V A.— That reef is the only thing. You want to give it a wide berth. Q. — Is there anything else that you can recommend ? A. — No, not there. Q. — A i'ter you pass the Western end of the Straits - Are the lights all right there 'f A. — I think we t-hould have a light down about St Mary's Island. Q — What about Cape Norman - Going through the Straits from the Eastward ? A —It is all right. Q. — Is thei-e a log signal there '? A. — Yes.a good one I heard it last time going home and Point amour is a good light and so is Grreenley. Flower Island is a good light, but I think it would be a good thing to have a fog-signal there. Q.— Don't you think that wherever there is a light house there should be a fi)<>: signal ? A. — Yos sir, if you can make them distinctive. Q. — But il it is possible to do that you think there should be one wherever there is a light ' A. — Yes, as lonsj as it can be distinctive. Q.— You say there should be a light on St Mary's [slaud ? A.— Yes, I think it would be better there than at Cape Whittle. g.— What about Heath Point V 4« m ir — 171 — 11 l!'2 10 20 M n A. -\V»'I1, the light is all right, but it would b»' better if il was a Hushing light. Q --Is it a Hxed light ? A-Yes. — What about another light farther North on East Capf some- where ? A. — I think it would bo a good thing to have a light on each Cape. Q — Do you ever go past Antioosti on the North ? A — No, I never was through. There is very little gain in distance Q — On the Newfoundland coast approaching from the western en- trance of the Straits what have you to suggest ? A —At Point Rich there is no fog-signal and I think one would be useful but would b.' even better on one ol those islands off the Bay of St John. Q. — Wouldn't you have to have a light there loo? i A -1 thought it would htve b'^u better there than at Flower Ledge Q. — I supimse the majority of the Captains preferred Flower Ledge Y A - I suppose so. Q — Yi'U can go around Heath Point in the fog ? A.— Yes,by the 1. ad. Q —Do you think the light to the North of Heath Point would be bjtter than having a liiihtship anchored out there? A. — 1 think a light.ship would be better, because you can sleer wel ilear ofthf land. You make the light-ship instead of making the land to make your shore light. Q —You gi't your warning farther away from the danger ' A. -Yes Q. — H'lW far from the laud do they geneially put them ? A.— That depends A light ship might easily be fixed thfre off' Heath Point sevfu or eight miles as far as the holdin-j ground is concer- ned I don't see why a light ship could not stay there as well anywhere else. Ft is only a question of mooring. Q, — There aie lots i f liiiht-ships in the English Channel ? A. — Yi s all over in more exposed places than that, both on the Ame- rican Coast and our own coast. Q. — .\tter pas.siiig Heath Point you make for South Point ? A. — Yes sir, it is all right there is a fog-signal there Q. -Do you always §ound going along between South Point and South West Point ? A. — Yes sir, if it it; foggy I sound every quartt-r of an hoar or ten mi- s U le- 3n- be of e i \>{i off- er- er [IH- jth mi- m m — 172 — iiutt's iiiid sdiiicliint's ytiiiii? down in ilcar wrnvtlior I souud ovory iwt) or ihivi' hours Just for my o.vii i^uidiiihv in the futmv for thf soimdinijs do uol iiKviy.N iigrci' with thi' chiiit 1 think tho wholn Gulf oiisjlit lo be ri'-survcy. d Q — Wcll.afiiT li'iiviiig Soutti Wi'sl Point whore do you (ttoor for ? A — ranit' I'oiiit. Q. — Whitt do you think about Fame Point and Capo Magdalen ? A - Faini' Point is tlio most iraporianl and wo should havo a pownr- fui llHsh lij;ht tiicri'. It is now a iixi'd li;^ht witn a rod ll ish And tho 10 uoxt one al Capo llosior is also a fixed light. Q - Is ihoro a fog signal al Fame Point A. — No sir, thoro is not and I think it very noot'ssary that there should bo ono lher<'. (.^, — What about the other lights between there and Father Point V A — Will, Martin liivor is <>nly .i fixed light, Cape Chatto is a good light and distim tivo, iiut Matario is not much good aid wants improving most decidedly. Q — ix not there a buoy off Matane ? A. — Yes.ther.' i-§ a small buoy, and last voyig; I got oa th' .vro ig •(, side (if the bu'>y without seeing it. Q. — Then you need a proper buoy there ? A. — Yes sir, we need a good large can bu 'y, a'ld 1 don't think it would be any haiin lo hav>' it a whistling buoy . Q. -How would th.'y hayo it whistle ! A. — With th.> movement of the water. Q. — Wouid that be b -tter than a beli f A. — Yes. a bell would only ring when it moved. Q. — How far could it be heard ? A — Pi'rliaps a mile and perhaps not half a mile. Q -What abr>ut Father Point ? A —There .-hould be a good signal there The gun is no go id 1 think it would be well to have tho gun to answer ships signalling for pilots, but two voyag' s ago I got there in a fog and stood in towards Riinouski and sto[)ped and 1 did not hear Father Point gun until I had been there for an hi'ur. tj.— Is th.-re a -jood li'jht on Father Point ? A. — \'es,a very lairliglit - A revolving light. Q. — How far ofi'(an you see it ? A. — Twrovt'mL'iit on the light- ship. Q. — I)u you nci'd anything on thii wosturn end of Orloins I-iland ? A. — Yt's we need a leading lightof course we hive the two red lights ab 'Vv' leading into the harbor. Q. — Don't the numerous electric lights there confuse you ? A. — Yes, I think it would be a great help to have a light on the Wes- tern end of Orleans Inland. It would helpgoing both ways. Q —Suppose you were coming in South and miking for Cape Race, jQ what liave you to say about that i" A. — I think there should be a more powerful light there. The fog signal is very good and there are good soundings there . ii- — Do you think that light is in the right place V A. — I think it would do a little furth-r S')uth but it would not do to go too 'ar South you would shut it out from the North. (.J. — You dont always inike thit light going out ? A. — You would not go looking for it in thick weather-- You could al- ways fe.j your way around with the b-ad. Q.- Afier pa.-sing there ? A —Cape Pine— That is a good light, but it is a fixed light and there io use fog signal there. Q. — Can you see Cape Kac>' light from Cape Pine ? A. -No. you cannot - Yon would have to be well to thi> South of Cape pine before you could pick uf) C'ape Race light Q --What is the distance between Cape Race and Cape Pint^ A —Nineteen miles. (^ — Then as a matter of fact going KA>i when you make Cape Race light you are practically out of all danger from th- land ? A. -Yes. Q— And then von haul up the Gulf ? A. -Yes. Q — What about Cape Ray ? A — 1 think we could havt' a great improvement there. (.^. — it is a revolving light i A — Ye>,but I think a fla;>hing light would be much better. Q. — There is a steam horn there, I believe ? .•i. — Ye<,l)ut I don'l vi'inembcr having heard it. Q.— And then the IJird Rocks ? A. — Yes sir,tha; is a fixed light .wul a gun — They are all right l)ecau- se the soundings are a good guide there. .0 :^ti i' - 174 — Q — Do you think there should be u log-horn there instead ol' a guu ? A.— I hiive heard the gun a long dislame off but then on the other haud you might hear it five or six miles oH but one or two mihs off you might never hear it at all. I have known that to happon at Belle Isle. Q — And then comes Cape Ko-ier ? A.— Yes. Q — What about the relative wickedness of snow storms and log V A. — I think one is as bid as the other. Of course when you get a snow storm th'' weatiiir is worse and you may g -t a strong breeze but in a log 10 there is seldom .Miy breeze Q. — How soon do you get snow ? A. - Any time in October. The Kind is all cov"red with snow in the Gull' now Q. — Will you go out by Belle Isle this time ? A. — It depends on the weather when I g i then*. Examined by Mr Campbell Q — Is it not a fact that the danger in snow-storms is very much . greater in sailing ships than in the modern steim ship.* of to-day V A — ies. Q. — Therefore the old idea ol October and November in theOulfof St Lawrence is to a certain extent false now on account of th<' great num- ber of st>amers now instead of sailing ships ? A. -Yes. (i — Did you ever come here in a sailing ship ? A —No sir, Q — Do you ihiuk it much more dangerous for your ship going up the St. Lawrence in October than in August ' A. -No. Q. — You wont have as much fog V A — No, but the niarhts an^ longer and yni might have a little snow but the chances are you will not have as mu<.'h fog and you have clearer weather Q — In sailing from Halifax to St. John have you any suggetion to make in inakiig llalifix I'What about these lights ' A — Sainboro is a sjood light and chebuoto head and that is the iirst one we pick up Y Q. — Of course if there is a snow storm there you have to stay off ? A.— Yes. ■*^ Q.— Well, then the next is Little Hope Y 80 in ? iher you low fos the ,10 h f or LIU - up to r«t ■/» — 175 — A. — Yes.that is a good light. Q. - An' thesf bi'tter thau the lights iu the Gulf ? 10 A Q A Q A Q A Q A — No sir, not better thau the leading lights -That light is tixly-five miles from Sambo ? — Yes but there are lights between. — But not important lights ? JO 80 4U — Well Iroiibouud Island is a good loug range light . — Is it improved now ? — Well, it was changed b.'fore we were running there. -But a three Hash white light is a good light V .—Yes. Q — Have we any of thesie in the Gulf ? A. — You have some two Hash lights. Point Rich is a double flash. That is the only one except Cape Uaspe Q. — What about Gull Island sixteen miles West ? A. — That is a good light and cau be seen in fair weather about twelve miles. Q - Would you suggest a more powerful light there - Do you depend upon it much ? A. — It is a coast light and I think it should be a twi'iity mile light anyway. Q. — What about Cape Negro 'f A. — It is a wretched all'iir and dt'cidedly wants improving. Q.— What kind o( a light is it ? A. — It ifs only a ordinary flash, red and white, of little service to the coaster in its pr-'.MMi! ptsition. Ii can be plainly s'-en when vessels are pointing West, but on the Eastern course it can't be made out until about abeam. It would appear to me very desirable to have this light placed on the Si>u'h lia-t side of ih' Island as by so d)ing it could be seen when pointing eith'^r East or West. Q. — What about Baccaro light \ A. — It is a r> d lixed light and very poor one and of very little use to the marinrr. Q —Is it not M fill that in going from Halifax to St John you have your pilot with vou ? A. — Yes usually but lie i.s no< in charge but his local knovvle Ige is very us»;lul. I think ill. thi'se light-hoii.ies .should be made more distinctive as day marks (specially in the winter. The shape ol them is wrong and very often you cannot tell a lighthouse from the gable end of a barn. If they were built X — 176 — in round towi'rs you oould always pick thum up. Somo of them aiv very much like an ordinary house. Q.— What about the idea of putting a Hag pole up with a largb> ball of some description on it i A — That is a very good id»a if it is largo enough. I find very great difficulty in coming with the snow on the ground to tell which light house it is or to piiik it out from the other buildings. Q.— They are supposed to have different stripes '. A.— Yes, but you can't d'p'nd upon [)icking th ).se ui) until you are 10 close ill It is a very small building. If they built them round like Point Amour it would be better but these square light houses are very hard to find. Q— How do you think the Canadian lights compare with the American Lights V A. — I think the American lights ar.> vtM-y much better and more powerful. Q. — And the same may be said of the British lights ? A.— Ye« sir, but they are not as good as the .American lights. Q. — You know they think t is very dangerous to navigate in the St 29 Lawrence from the 15th of Septembt.'r to the 15th of November — Do you think it is any more dangerous than from the I5th of May to the 15th. of September ? A. — I think it is a little more dangerous because you are -'ipt to get a little more snow and longer nights Q. -But you have clearer weather then than in June and July as far as the fog is concerned ? A. — Yes sir, there is lees fog. And further deponent saith not. A. W CI. MACA LISTER, go Offiriiil Stenogra/jker. I, Alex. W G. Macalister, Official Stenographer, upon the oath which I have alreapy taken do solemnly declare, that the foregoing pages from one to twelve and containg twelve pages are a true transcript of the evidence given by Captain Evans in this matter. And I have signed. A. W. a. MACALISTER Official Stenographer 4D sry ill ;at ht ut to rt' St h ft't ir •h m be '.r ^ — 177 — DEPOSITION OF CATTAIN WALTER CHAPMAN, OF THE STEAMSHIP 'MONTEAQLE", 10 Taketi this 30th day of October 1900. Examined by the CHAiBMiN: Q. — How long have you beeu in command ? A.— From IHUB, 2 years. Q — Have you beeu runniug to the St Lawrence all that time V A — No sir, I was here one season, and since that time I have only been here since August just a season and a half on the St Lawrence Q. — What port did you sail from '? A. — From Avonmouth Q. — What route did you come ? A — Cape Race. Q. — Had you instructions. from your owners to come that way V A. — No sir I came by Cape Race b'icause going through Belle-Isle '-' last time I had a lot of snow, and I made better weather going South, Q. — What have you to say about Cape Race 7 A — I think Caj'e Race light-house should be further South. Q — Is the light itself good ? A. — Yes sir, it has a good range. 0. — What'about the fog-fignal < J A. — 1 have not heard it. Q. — Have you good soundingf there V A.— Yes. Q — Well, from Capo Race on up the Gulf ' A. -Cape Pine is all right. Q. — Is there a log-signal there ? A. — No, I don't think fo. Q. — Is it: necessary to have one there ? A. — Certainly. Q. — What is your opinion as to having fog-signals where there are light-houses ? A. — Decidedly where there is a light-house there should be a power- ful fog-sitrnal. *j. — Thou what comes next ? 4U 80 ly re 1- 10 20 io 4D — 178 - A.— Gallantry und Miqneloii, aiul thi'ii Capo liay Q.— What have you to say about that ? A. — It is all light but I think it would bo hotter to do away with that and put tho liirht on Duck Island, and a good poworful siren too. It is a good light-house but you havo dang.-rs oi.isido of it Thoro should be au altoration at Bird Rooks - that giin should bo done away with— I doui believe in guns . I don't think they are firod in proper time. Q. — What do you preler :* A.— One of those high and low sirens. Q — Well proceed "} A. — Cape CJaspe is a good light. Q.--A flash light ? A.— Yes sir and th-- next is Capo Rosier That is a good light. Q. — Is it a good whistle ? A.— 1 haven't heard it. Q.— What a'.out Fame Point ? A. — A very powerful light is wanted there and fog a signal. Q.— Is it not a faot that you very often make Fame Point, and not Cape Rosier ? A. — Yes. sir. Q.— And you havo a more powerful fog-signal at Capo Rosier than you have at Fame Point ^ A.— I haven't heard it. Q.~What about Cape Magdalen ? A. — Well, I think Cape Magdalen should be ohauged too. f am in favor of these occulting lights. Q. — What is it now ? A.— A four or three flash light. Q — All the same color ? A.— Yes. Q-— What about Martin River ? A. -These are not good lights along tho coast and I think there should be better fog-signals along there. Q — There are none there ? A.— No sir— Cape Chatte is a good light but the fog-signal wants altering. Q.— Have you ever feen the buoy at Matane ? A.— Yes sir, I have just seju it and that is all. it wants to b« altered to a bigger automatic can buoy. Q. — What about the light ? ith It xia -I lOf an 111 re ts 17U — lit A.--h i^ A fixi'd light I wuuUl tiltur that audit uiuHt bo tuurt' poweil'ul. Q. — Aiul yuu want ji rog-sigiml there ? A.-Y«8. Q — What about Little Metiw ? A. — It iw a small light aud should bi' iuad« more powiirl'ul with a fog-Nigual. Q — What about Father Point ? A —It is a good light but 1 think the light-house should be built a tjj little hgher to give it a long'-r range lor tear ol' Toy- in the channel to the North-ward. Q. — What about the log-signal there ? A. — It is a L!un. It is no good and should br ehaiiged. li — You have been through Iti'lle Isle '! A.-Y.'s. Q— Have you any suggestion to make as to improvements that might be made there I'or the betterment of navigation and safer approach to the Island ? A. — Uelle Isle is a good liuht but you ean only see it in clear weather ,,j It is so high up on the Island — If the light-house was built l;)wer down to the water. Q. — 15ut there are two lights there ? A — Yes, but you can't see the lower one from the Gulf. Q. — Wouldn't it be better to have a light and a log signal at the North East end of the Island f A. -Yes. Q — Is it not a fact that coming down on the circle you uro more apt to make the Northern part of the Island than the South V A. -Yes. ., Q — Do you think if there was a light there you would be tempted to go through the Northern passage ? A. — I would never attempt it. Q. — You would go right down .is soon as you mide that North light ' A. — Yes fir, il there is any ii'c there it i-< always in the Northern channel, and sometimes big bergs get anchored there. Q, — WHiat about the light at the Western end of Straits ? A. — Well, I think there should be a change in the fog-signals at Cape Bald and ("ape Norman Q — That is on Newfoundland ? A — Yes sir.one is a blast every five seconds and the other every ten •tu seconds. le Pf to rii — 180 (^. — The lights tire good ? A. — Yes sir.'jiU 1 think there should bo a change in the log signals, lu the distance you can't tel! them apart l;>i- the whistles have exactly thd same sound. Q. — But iheri' is not much danger ol' mistaking one oi these for the other as ihey are at opposite ends ol' t',e Strait ? A. — But il'you heard the log v\ histK- at Cape Nor..ian and you mistook itfor Cape Bald you might think you were i»raotically out olthe Straits. Q— Haveyou anything more to .>-ay about that ? 10 A. — No sir there should be a i'ugsii;nal al Flower Island. There is a Very good one on the opposite eoasi at Point Amour, •i— What about St. Mary's ? A — There should be a good liiiht-house there \vith a ti'ood flash light «ir else at Cape Whittle. Q. — With a good fog signal ? A.— Yes. Q — What about Heath Point ! You have g(K)d soundings there ? A. — Y — 18] — Q.— There are gas buoys there are there not ? A. —Yes oue at each end and there ara two black buoys.and they eould be made bigger. Q. — You would have them can-buoys i A.— Yis, Q.— Do you think the lights are sufficiently powerful on the whole > A —I think a good many of them should be made more powerful. Q. — And the shapes and the external marks of the lighthouses ? A.— You can't tell one of them from another If you come in and 10 pick one up. Q.— Ihey should be improved { A —Yes. Q A. Q. A. ■JO . — How ? -I think they i^hould have red tops. Bright red to tops. -Wouldn't that be covered with snow ? -Have a heating arrangement and melt it. They do that with the Dutch lights and you alway.s have the heat for the Whistle?-. Q — What are the tops painted now :* A. — White every one of them. Examined by Mr Rei-ord. Q — What do you think of a survey ii. the Gulf- Do you think the soundings are according to tiie charts ? A. — No sir.I think the whole Gulf wants to be surveyed. Q.— Right from Cape Race V A. -Yes. Are the currents correctly stated on the charts V A.--I don't see how you can (letermina them for they are all influen- ced by the local winds. 'Examined by Mr. Campbeu,. Q. Have you heard anything aboi, : a barge of bricks being sunk at Crane Island and obstructing the channel there. A.— No,sir. And further deponent saith not A W,G. MACALISTER, Ofivial Stenographtr. 40 10 , — 182 — I,tho undersigned, Alex. W. G, Macalister, Oflieial Stenographer, of the City and District ol Moutreal.ou the oath I hare already taken do hereby declare That the foregoing pages numbered from one to eight and being eight pages in all are and contain a true and faithful tran- script of the evidence givm in this case by the above named witness, by me taken by means ol stenography. And 1 have signed. A. W. G. MACALISTElt, Official Slcnogrnpher. DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN EDWARD MINISTER OF THE STEAMSHIP " LORD IVEIOH'". •20 io Taken on the 80th day ol October 1!M»0. Examined uy the Chairman :— Q. — What trade are you on ? A.— Trading here Irom Cardif Q. — How long have you been master ? A. — Four years, Q. — Have you been accustomed to trade here ? A. — Just last season and this. Q.-Didn't you get any instructions from your owners as to how you were to come. A —No sir ]>ut I came by Cape Race,because I had to go the Sydnev lor bunkers. Q. — Ifit had not been for that what would you have done ? A.— I would have .ome by Belle Isle if everything had been favora- ble,— the wind and weather and that sort of thing. Q —You could not tell that leaving the other side ^ A.— Nosir,but it would not have made much difference in a day a days run anyway. . 43 1 do 'iyht la u - >, by pher. yon iioy )ra- y :• — 183 — 10 :o r,o 4U Q. — But with favoiabk' wtutheriis you thought you would have, you would givo Bi'ile Isle thf pr.'l'or.'iico? A. — Yes,b«Ciiuse it is shorter. Q — How about the ice ? A. — Wfll you are just as likely to meet ice South as you are North Q—Is it not a lact that the position ol' the ice i» morn clearly deliiied on the Northern route than the Southern -- In other words you know bet- ter where to look for ice North than you do South ? A. — Yes sir, I think you do •V— Have you any suggestion to make as to the betterment ol navi- gation by Belle-Isle ? A. — Yes, I think it would be a good idea to stren of then the fog -- signals. Q.- What about tho northern end ? A —1 have never been up North of Belle Isle.aud I am not prepared to say anything about that. Q— Have you gone ih.'-ough the Str.iits many times ? A. — Five times. Q.— Has it always bce,i clear whin you made the Straits ? A. —Yes, I would not attempt to enter them unless it was. Q. — But have you not had to lie over waiting for it to clear V A. — Yes. Q. — And did you always make the Straits ? A. -1 njade the edge ol the bank and if I could not hear anything I would stand ofl agaui until it cleared. Q— You never went much to the North of the light '* A.— No. Cj.— How do you find the Belle-Isle route ? A—There is nothing particularly wroug with it. '] here Wiis a light there this last time on Flower Island that is a very good idea. It is a great guide especially approaching the West end ol the Straits. ignal ? A. — I have heaid the fog-signal on three or four passages going around there and it is a fairly good signal. Q — Do you think Cajie Race light is properly placed ? A.--1 think it would be better to be shifted further South to give ships a chance of opi ning it out before they are in danger. Q.— And the next plaoe is ? A.— t\ipe Pine--Theri' is no fog signal there and it wants one very badly. The French liuhts are all right bit Cape Ray light ought to be further out, on Duck Island because you (uin get right inside of the light and those reefs lii' oH' quite a distance. Q. — And then comes Bird Rocks ? A. — Yes.the light on ihem is all right, but I have never heard the fog 'J.( signal there I'ur ii has aUvaj/^s been clear weather when I passed. Q. — And the next place ? A. — Fame Point Q. — That is a very important point f A. — Yes. Q, — How is it provided with lights a and fog-signals 'f A. — It is a very poor light. Q — What distance can you see it V A. — It isn't distinctive enough, you want a flash or something that you can see. It is a red flash now, but you can't see it. And you want a oij strong fog sipnal —a siren with a high and low sound. Q. — What about the lights between Cape Magdalen and Feather Point ( A. — They i,reall poor lights and must be made stronger and more distinctive and in all cases where there is no fog-signal there should be one. Q.— What about Father Point ? A. — It is all right. Of course there is that Cock Point which runs out and you have to go outside and then run around into Father Point. Q. — The fog signal there is poor ? ■^[) A. — 1 have heard it t-everai times— It is a gun. ail 1(1 vc ry be ■ht ■->sr at er ire bo iif^ — 185 Q — llavo you aiiythiujr lo siy about iho iiiivig.itiuii lietwcoii iMitlior Point and Quebt-c V A— Wi'll.Wf have our pilot on board there and we don't lake a grt' down I got into seventeen falhonis, and it was marked on the chart about sixty-five. Q —How do you find it at other point.'* ? 20 A. — On the whott; ihcy are not good Q.— Are you in favor of a hydrographic survey of the Gulf ? A. — Yes, I think it is necessary. Examined by Mk Rekord. Q.— After leaving Belle Isle, heading for Anticosti, would it be of any use to put Hash lights along the North Shore of the Gulf ? A. — It would be a very goo idea to have one on St Maray's Island going down as now we have nothing from Greenley Island to Heath Point Q. —Would it be better to have it at Cape Whittle or at St Mary's Is- •^'^ land? A —St Mary's Island for that would bj something to pick up before making Greenley Island. Q.— Coming to Quebec have you any trouble with the electric lights there V A.— Of course you have the glare of the city in front of you. Examined by Mi:. Campbell. Q- — Have you found much difference in your soundings in coinpari- \-) son with the chart ? IMAGE EVALUAT^N TEST TARGET (MT-3) 1.0 ^BS I 1.25 2.5 ^ Km i 2.2 I.I I.'- i^ V /^ w Vs^j? "VTv"^-' •N? iV 4 i ^ ^>^- ■ w-'. t - 186 — A. — Some places there is a great difference. (^. — Do you ever time th')se revolving lights to see if they are accurate, A.— Yes.I did. Q.— Did you ever fiud Cape Ray or Cape Race light not revolving-«or any of these lights ? A -No. Q. — You would report such a thiag ? A.- -Yes. Q.— Would you log it ? 10 A. — I think I should and report it when 1 arrived. Q. — You have run to Baltimore ? A. -Yes. Q. — How do our lights compare with those lights ? A. — They are not nearly as good. Q.— Of course you h;ive not the same stretch of liver navig.ition there as you have here ? A. — Well, a good deal in the Chesapeake Q. — Is that much safer than going up to Father Point for instance ? A. — I don't think there is much difference. 'iQ Q. — You have traded there a good deal ? A.— Yes. Q. -And changing the trade to Montreal, which do you prefer of the two ? A — Well, I have nothing to say against the St Lawrence trading, ir we had good lights around the coast I would just as soon come here as any-where else. Q. — You don't think it is doubly as dangerous to come here as to go to Baltimore ? A — No, sir 80 Q- — ^^ ^^ much more dangerous navigating the St Lawrence than the British Channel wiih all the shipping that there is there ? A.— No. Q. — You would prefer navigating the St Lawrence ? A. — Yes sir. I think taking all the dangers into consideration I would consider there Is less risk Q.— Don't you have a lot of fog and snow in the ETnglish Channel ? A— Yes sir at certain times in the year. Q. — .Mi\ch worse than we have in the G-ulf V A — You can get very dirty weather in the £)nglish Channel. |U i — 187 — Examined by Mr Reford Q. — Coming to Montreal in the night-tinif, after leaving Qvteb(M\ have you anything to say about the channel thore ? A.- -No. sir Q. — Is it lighted well enough after leaving Quebec ? A, — Well, when we have our pilot on board 1 don't take a great deal of dtock in that, and I have not heard the pilot complain. •Q. — You said the St Lawrence lights were very poor ? IQ A.— Yes, they are poor all the way up excepting Cape Graspe. Q. — Which do you prefer, fixed lights or flash lights ? A. — Flash lights because you can pick them up so much better. It is more distinctive — If you have a fixed light it is some time before yon know what it is and especially if you come in on a doubtful position and the weather is hazy. Q. — Do you think a siren pierces the fog b.'tter than a gun ? A. — Yes sir, I think so. Q. — What time would you recommend that a fog signal to be work- ed properly ought to be used ? 2Q A. — Around these coasts 1 should say about two to lour minutes. Q — And do you think it is necessary that every light house should have a fog-horn ? A. — Yes »ir, I do. And further deponent saith not. A. W. a. MACA LISTER, Official Stenographer. E. MINISTER, Lieut. R N. R MASTER. 30 I, Alex. W. G- Maoalister.Official Stenographer, upon the oath which I have already taken do hereby declare. That the foregoing pages num- bered from one to eight and being eight pages in all are and contain a true and faithtul transcript ot the evidence given in this matter by Captain Minister by me taken by means of stenography. And I have signed A W.G. MACALISTER, Official Stenographer. + ) ;'» ; t • — 188 — DEr(>SlTION OF CAPTAIN JOHN M.WALLACE, OF THE STEAMSHIP PARISIAN' OF THE ALLAN LINE 10 Taken the Ist. day of November, 1900. Examined by the Chairman. Q. — How long have you been iu cominand ? A. — Twelve oi thirteen years. l^. — How long have you been trading te the St Lawrence ? A. — For twenty-five yea.s, as an oHicer. KX- — What port did you sail from this time ? A. — Liverpool. Q. — By what route did you uome / A,— Belle Isle Q. — Had you any instructions from your owners as to what route you 'should take ? A.— Yes, it was definitely stated thai I should take Belle Ish, but if -' it had been left to mysell 1 would have taken the Belle If-lo route Just the same. Q.— Why ? A — I considt r the Belle Isle route is as safe as South, except of cour- se in the Spring oi the year. Q. — But from the Ibt of July up to Itie end of the season you think it is just as s-afe ? A.— Yes. Q. — In your approaches to Belle Lsle you haven't very much sound- ings ? '^'^ A. — No, but there are two small places about twenty-five to thirty miles ofl and if you are well North you can get soundings, but if you are South you are very close to the land before you get any. Q. — In coming in on the great circle, you are more apt to hit the North end of the Island than the South ? A — We always do that. Q. — liave you any suggestion to make as to anything that would improve the navigation there ? A. — I think there should be a light on the North East end of Belle Isle with a fog-signal. 40 ute t if ur- iik lul- rty tire the nld i f-' — 180 — 10 Q. — What sort of light would you like V A.. — A flashing light with either a horn or a siren I don't want a gun. I don't approve of guns at all. Q. — The Government are afraid that that will encourage diptains to come in North of Belle Isle { A. — I came in that way this time and have done so several timt^s but 1 would never so in that way unless I was thrown up that way and the weather was very clear. Q. — Would you go in that way at night ? A — Well, if there was a light there I would but I would not Attempt it now. Q. — Are there a lot of outlying reefs about three miles off i A.— Yes. Q. — Then lor that reason don't you think a light there would be of advantage to the mariner V A. — Undoubtedly a light is an advantage It is a sale thing anywhere and I would like a light there lor coming down on the circle track you may get set a little further north than you suppose, and that shuts of the light at Uelle Isle altogether, and then .>>ometimes there is a slate of the E.(mo8pheie so you can't see the Island until you are very close to it ; and when you are close in there you can sound about 114 faihoras. And the land I am pretty snre would shut out the sound of the present fog-signal. Q. — That is it you were five or six miles North you could not hear the fog-signal as it is now ? A — Exactly.This time I was up North. and when I first saw Bellelsle it had a peculiar appearance. I did not know what it was and there was a mirage or something that looked like Belle Isle off to the North so I went in the North. Q. — What time did you arrive there ? A. — About two o'clock in the afternoon. Q.— Was it clear ? A — The Striiit was perfectly clear but away South the fog was just being blown out and the Southern passage was all fog. Q. — Uo your charts show this Labrador Coast ? A. — Yes.we have a chart that has beeu printed l.itely of the whole Straits with the soundings all through. Q. — How do yuu find these soundings on the charts compare with the actual soundings ? A. — I lind them very good. Q.— Do you think it would be desirable to have a new hydrographic 4u survey of the whole St. Lawrence and Gulf? 80 fun. I to but and inpt ! of here you the the and the ;nal. lear ileit as a 80 I just bole pith phic .1 ■1 '{I — 190 — A. -Woll, sometimes you will find a great diffen'nee but then the question arises is that nu account of the air on the v^lass of the sounding tubeb. The temperature changes ihem two or three talhoms and I never lound more than two or three fathoms ditfereuoe, but ol course those banks are going 1o change at different times. Q — Do you think it would be bet-irable to have a new survey V A. — Yes, I think it would be better. Q. — Well when you go South ol Belle Isle, is the light on Belle Isle all you desire t lU A. — Yes.that is all any man can desire. . Q. — And the fog signal V A. — I have not heard it. Q — How is the light on Cape Bald ? A. — A very good light indeed. And then Cape Norman on the New- foundland shore and the next thing is Point Amour on the Labrador coast. t^. — There is nothing you would suggest in the Straits themselves f A. — No.sir. Q. — What about the West* rn entrance '( A — That is well lighted since they have put that light on Flower 20 Island. Q. —There is no fog signal there ' A. — No sir, and there ought to be. Wherever a light is required a fog signal is necessary. Q. — Alter you p&cs the Westeri! entrance and make for Heath Point is there anything you would suggest in that ttretch ol two hundred and forty miles. A. — No.sir. Q. — What about St Mary's Island on the Labrador coast? A.— In all my experience I have had no difficulty between these two •^[) places Q. — You would not mistake a light there for Heath Point or any- thing else ? A. — No, for it is too far off. Any light at any time is an improve- ment but I would suggest something else on Anticosti on the North East side. Q — Between Heath Point and Fox Bay ? A.— Yes sir. On the high place — a light and a fog-signal. Q. — Do you think that would be more advisable than having a light- ship anchored in twenty fathoms of water ? *» A. — I don't approve of that so much. 1 the idiug never Ibube } Islo L^ew- ves V uvver •ed a ^iut . and two any- t)ve- East gh ♦ . 10 80 4U — 191 — Q. — You have good bouudiugs at Ileiith Point ? A. — Yes very good, but the trouble is in appruaohiug Heath Point I'n m the StruitM of Belle Ule you cun get close up to the land and cannot (•ee the liyht — the present one at llenth Point, the diHiiincu is too great. and if you are cariied by the current and forget you have a lead on board this uew liijhi would preveut anything like that. We would have the light in clear weather and tbei-ignal in foguy weather and the lead at all times Q. — Is it a good fog-signal at Heath Point ? A. — 1 have never heard it. Q.— Should there be a good one there? A. — Yes, there ou^ht to b« a very good fog signal there Q. — And then you go the South Point V A. — Y'es,I have nothing to suggest there. Q. — Is tbero & buoy oH there ? A.— 1 never teen one. There used to be one off Heath Point, l)ut I have not seen it this year. Q. And then you cross the river and make for Fame Point or Mag- dalen? A. -Yes. Q.— What about Fame Points A. — The light is very good. (^. — That is the Point you make for when you corae South? A.— Yes and there is no fo<>--signal there. There should be one. (^. — Have you any suggestion to make between Fame Point and Fa- ther Point ? A. — Nothing as regards lights, but, there should be more fog-signals. Q.— What about Father Point ? A. — I think a chance in the fog--signaI there would be a good thing. It should be either a siren or a horn A gun or a bomb is usele-ss. -- Some- times you can hear it and sometimes you can't. (J. — Well,coming in by Cape Race ? A. — We have good soundings --At le; st there are plenty of soundings, but they are not to be altogether trusted because from the outer edge of the Bank you cun go right in to the land with the same soundings all the time. t^. — I-j the light good there ? A. -Yes sir and the fog--signal is splendid. i^ — Then you have Cape Pine ^ A. — Yes sir Th it is a good light but there is no ibg--signal there and wherever there is a liglit there should be a fog'-signal. ■i" — 192 — Q. — Al Cape Race do you make the light well going to the Eastward It is uol obliterated or shut off at all ' A —No. Of course going down close in shore you have Cape Pine, and then halfway between Cape Pine and Cape Race you pick up the light. Q.~Wha'. is that distance f A. — Nineteen miles. Q.- -Are the lights at Cape Pine and Cape Race sulhcieutly distincti- ve V A. -Yes. 10 Q —After you pass Cape Pine ? A.— Well we see Cape St Mary-It is a beautiful light--a very power- ful light. Q — And from there you go to St Pierre and Miquelon ? A. — Yes .sir, they are all right. The French lights as a rule are very good lights. Q — And then Cape Ray V A. -Yes, there is notuing wrong whith that either. Q. — Have you ever taken the trouble to count the revolutions of the light there Y 20 A.- I have dene it but at the present time I could not say anpthing about it. I think though if there was anything wrong I would remem- ber it. Q. — If you saw anything wrong vvould you log it ? A. — Yes sir, and report Q.— And then the Bird Rot ks ? A. — Yes sir, there is nothing wrong there except the fog signal. These guns are no use. Q. — Did you ever hear the gun there ? A. — Yes, I rememb-'r henring it some years ago. OQ A. — And then the next place ? A. — Fame Point is the point we steer for but we pass Cape Rosier some miles off — about nine miles. Q. — Have you anything to say about the river between Father Point and (Quebec ? A.— No, I can't say anything about that. I have not had a talk with any pilots about any improvements. Q — You never had any trouble coming up ? A. — No, sir. Q. — Roundinsr the Western end of Orleans Island, have you all the lights there that you want — Do you never find the electric lights at Quebec are apt to mislead you ? ■■>,■ 193 — 10 •20 ;]0 4U A. — The ouly thing is that the i-lt'ctric lights are bad lor being in your eyes Q.— Yon have no lights on tho Western tuil of Orloaus Island '. A. — Theio is no recognized light there Q. — Don't you think some leading lights or a gas buoy or something of thai kind would he desirulle there ? A. — Well, I can't say very much about that, for you have the land both ways —You are go clote to the land. Q.— But if it is very dark — the pilots have never drawn your arten- tion to that V A. — No h\r. Many a time I have asked them what guided them there and they ^'■eemed to think it was all right. (^ — Is there anything between Queb c and Montreal ? A — 1 think down below there it would be an advantage to have a light somewhere between Cape Rouge and Poiui aux Trembles. Q. — Would one light do or do you want a rangv light '. A. — I think perhap.? one light might do or else two---noone drew my attention to it and I noticed the thing myself and I abku'd the pilot what he had there to guide him, and he said that he had nothing (ill he got to the gas buoy. O. — You got up before it was dark ? A.— Yes, at four in the afternoon. Q.— Suppose you arrived at seven at night you could not go up without dithoulty — don't jou think if we had gas-buoys between her^' and Point aux Trembles it would be of immense benefit to a steamer arriving just too late to get up Would you lare to come in with the ga«- bouys from Pointe aux Trembles ? A — I would rather have a light on the shore somewhere. Q. — Going into Liverpool haven't you fourte»*n or fifteen gaa buoys there ? A. -Yes. Q. — And it is jusl like a lane — and jou can go in any time dark or light ? A.— Yes. Q. — Well, as the channel is narrow between Pointe aux Trembles, nine miles down, and Montreal, wouldn't the gas-buoys be better than a light V A — No, I don't think so Of course it would require two leading- lights to have them in a line so as to know exactly if you aie in the chan- nel. Q — Going into Liverpool it is almost perfectly stait ? g in hiug land rten- here \'e a v my k'hat )t to > up miT loys k or lies, ban liug laa- 14 - lt>4 A. — Not now Q — But is not nearly so oiooked as from Pointe aux Trembles to hero. A. — Do yon always have a straight chuuiufl Ibr .i [)it'ce oiic way and theu stvaigh another way It loims an ellow. Q. — What about the navigation of tho St Lawrence as oorapart'il with oth'T ports — Do you consider it dangerous '. A — I don't think it more dan"-eiou j than other ports Q, — Do you consider it much more dangerous than going up to Bal- timore and Chesapeake Hay ? 10 A —Well here it is hard rooks you strike against aud there you have only soft mud as a rule, but one is just as intricate as the other. Q. — When do you expect snow in the Gulf Y A. — I generally look for it about tin; fifteenth of November. Q. — Do you think it is much more dangerous to navi-.'ate the St Law- rence bi'twem the fifteenth of Ausrust and the fifteenth of November, that it is between the filttenth ot May and the fifteenth of August V A. — No, I think it is ujosl dangerous in the Spring. And in th.3 mouth of June when there is so mu<;h log. Q. — In stt am navigation you have not anything like the samo amount of danger from snow and ice as with a sailing ship 'i A. — No, sir. Q. — Do you consider a snow storm is worse than a log ? A. --It is uo worse but it is a.s bad. Examined hy Mr. Bond. Q.- Have you uot seen snowstorms in ihe lower St Lawrence before the fifteenth of November''^ A. — No, I don't think I ever have. I have seen little Hurries occasi- onally, but I can't remember ever seeing a real snow storm. iiO Q.— Supposing a vefsel went ashore in August in the Straits of Bel- le Isle, would not the chance ol salvage ol cargo be greater than if she went ashore there on the 1st of November. A — Well, I couldn't say — There are so many things to think about in regaid to that. I suppose in the mouth of August you would have a better chance simply because there is less chance ol gales, but to say when it would be better or worse I couldn't say. Ke-examined by the Chairman. , ^ Q. — You are sailing on Saturday the 3rd of November ? 2e — I'.lf) — A— Yes. Q. — Will you go by by Belle Isle or South ? A.— Belle Isle. Q. — You won't be governed by the state of the weather when you reach Heath Point ? A.— Well, that might affect me, because I might just as well tell you that I work up all these storms and thai, sort of things. I have been at that lor the last thirty or thirty-five years 1 suppose and I always watch them by the accounts 1 get in the parers and that sort of thing and if I see a 10 storm coming up the coast I might take the South instead of the North. Examined by M« Campbell. Q. — Are the day mnrks on the light-houses distinctive enough— sup- posing you have a snow storm ? A — Well, I dont know what you could do for that. Q A Q A Q — Have they distinctive marks in other places ? — No.evcept on the Nova Scotia coast. — Well, on the American coast— down at New Orleans i — I have not been there. — What about Halifax— are the approaches there everything you 30 could wish ? A. — Yes sir, everything. Q— The Port of St John ? A. — I never was there and I don't want to be. Q — What about the reputation of the Port of St.Tohn — Do navigator* consider it one of those j)laces where they have to exercise extra caution 'i A — Yes sir — It is the Bay of Fundy — I never heard anyone say they had any love for it. Q — How do the Canadian lights compare with the American or British lights ? A. — They are not so good Q. — Are the British lights equal to the American lights ? A. — Some of them — we are improving our lights now. Q. — You have been to Boston ? A -Yes. Q — De you consider it one of the easiest harbours to make ? A. — Yes, very easy. Q. — How does it compare with Portland ? A. — That is a very easy harbour to make — It is well lighted — I have 4u you you that KMn I'M a h. up- you or« ley or ive 196 never had iho slightest difficulty about Portland ami I have goiu' in myself several times. Q.— Without a pilot V A. — Yes and the same with Halifax — I go in there verv often. Q.-— You would not care to go from Father Point to Quobec without a pilot ? A. — No. I would not care for that. Q. — You could do it with the charts couldn't you ? A.- The experience I have had on lh"St LawrencL> is quite sulficient. 10 ^^ — '^^^ men of war do it V A.— That is always a rule iu the navy to navigate their own ships in all waters. Q. — Do you think Portland is more difficult and dangerous than Bos- ton V A. — 1 think there is a very slight difference betwi-en the two ports. Examined uy the C'h.\irman. Q. — How often do you think the blasts should come on fog-signals V A. — That would have to be regulated by the different signals you 20 have there. Q. — At Father Point it is every twenty minutes — You could run five or six miles in twenty minutes ? A. -Yes. Q. — Don't you think that there should not be a greater interval than five minutes between the blasts i A. — It should be every half minute on a fog signal, when a log is on. And further deponent saith not. A. W. a MACALISTER, O/ficiat SUnographer. 30 I, Alex. W.G.Macalister, Official Stenographer, upon the oath which I have already taken do solemnly declare : That the foregoing pages numbered from oue to fourteen and contain- ing fourtten page^ in all are and rontain a true and faithful transcript of the evidence given iu this matter by Captain Wallace, by mo taken by means of stenography. And I have signed. A. W G. MACALISTER. Official Stenograplur. U t . — 197 — L'EroSlTlON OF CLturHAS AUGER, Ul< TJIE TOWN OF LEVIS, riLOT. Takm the 6lh day ol November, IHOO. Examined by Mb. Gear. Q. — How niauy yearis have you been a pilot V 10 A— Tweiity-six years. Q. — What is your age ? A. — Fil'ly-ibur. Q. — Now iiuayiiie ihat you aie bringing your vessel from Quebec (o Montreal, what is the liist p)iut which you will reach where you would like any improvement ? A. — At Cape IJouge th»ie are lights in the course of erection. One oi these liuhts is on the top of a hill at Pointe Basil and will reflect be- low for ships coming' up. and there is anoiher small light up above to come in luuge with the others above Cape Rouge. .(, (y>. — Th*ire was no light before that ? A — No sir, and we have asked for these lights for many years. At present there are only tempoiaiy lights but after they are completed they will be satisfactory. Q. — Then the next place is St Augu>tine ? A. — Y(S, these two lights are going to lead us into the cut they are going to niakti at St Augustine They ave going to make a cut there lor at pr» sent there is only twenty-two feet of water at low water, an I alter they make this cut we will be able to go down by nig-ht or by day for the two liuhts will lead us into the cut. 30 Q.— What is the next place ? A. — The next is Pointe Trembles. We were complaining last summer that the gas--buoys were not bright enough, nor the light on hill. --That light at St Antome on the hill was obstructed by the trees some years ago so instead of raising the light--hoHse or cutting th ■ trees, the man who owned the trees would not cut them, soihey put a pole on the light house and that is only a lamp the same as we have on board ship, and it is not so bright as a light in a reflector. Instead ot having a pole there it should be raised so that the light which is reflecting down bdow should be as big as the other. t^. — You v\aiit that li^ht improved by raising it ' you Uuu be- ! to At hey are lor Iter for iiier hat ears vho use not uld as r\ • 10 20 oO *) — 198 — A. — Yes and the gue- huoys and thut light w« ulc an a raiiyu light to pttss Point uux Tremblob. Q. — Wore they better when they were firHt there i A -Yes. Q — And they have changed them '( A —Yes. Q. — And put in inferior ga»-buoyB ? A. -Yes. Q. — Is the only difference in the burner '( A. - No sir, it is not the 8aine gas-buoy. — I think the gas-buoys iu this river should be lixed liglits and not revolving or flashing lights. Q _Why ? A. — The same as in New York and Boston — Gas-buoys with a long pole and a fixed light. I think it would b<' better ft r this river than a Hashing light for sometimes we aie busy lookirg after the steering of the ship, and by the time we look at it, it may have disappeared and if it was lixed we could see it all the time. And this is necessary especially where it comes as a range light with some other light. Q.— Might you not mistake it for a schooner ? A. — No.sir bei^ause we see by our course that it is the gas buoy. Sup- pose there is another light at a couple of acres, we can tell by the distan- ce what it is. Q.— In tht' Lower St Lawrence, the captains all want (lashing lights? A. — Yes, I think they are right there because the land is far away and they can only have the lijjht to go by, but we go by the land, for we have very narrow channels.and we wan't these lights to show us the «lis- tanoe to pass from th" buoy because two or three hundred feet further away we might be on the bank, and down below they have lots of room; and there are lots of small vessels anchoring everywhere Q. — Then you want a more powerful light on these gas- buoys ? A. — Yes.i.nd on the top of the hill. (i- — Had they more powerful lights on the old buoys ? A — Yes but they took them down below and gave us smaller ones,! think it was the Spring before last, but I can't tell exactly. Q. — You are certain that those buoys were moved and smaller ones put there ? A —Yes Q. — Was the navigation of that part of the river made more dange- rous by the fact of taking away these lights ? A. — Yes, and especially at Point aux Trembles. Where we have the .1 . -■ . 199 10 80 range lights at Ste Croix ihi- gas-l»uoy is not altogether iudispeiisible hut at Point aux Trembles it is quite din'iTeiit. Q. - Would you recomrai'iid the replacing of thf^e large lights ? A. — Yi's or put in Tixt'd ones higher. up The trouble with these buoys is tha' they are too low on ihe water and the pilot is high up on the bridge of the steamer and he can't see so well as if they were on a level with him. If the lights wcri; about twenty fet't above the water instead of ten feet it would be better. Q. — Will, above that point what other iiijproveuients would you re- commend i A. — Well.at S: Croix there they are dredging a cut but they have not been woiking this sunnner, I don't know why lor there is only about two hundred feet finished. When the cut is finishel it will be sifo up to Cape LaUorhe. Q. — Is that cut necessary ? \ — Yes, the way it is now we have noticed that we can pass at low water but the channel is only two hundre 1 feel wide. When it is finished at three hundred feel ii will be quite safe to pass there any time by day or by night. Q — What is the next point ? A. — Cape Charles and Cape Lalioche I think they should be widened I think if it was cut another hundred feet on the North side of Cape Charles it would be better. (^-- -What is the width now ? A. — li is three hundred feet now. but we want it cut so that w® will have more ( hance to enter the channel going up with a head tide. There are currents coming down when you are going up If it was widened lioni one hundred to iwo hundred feet it would be better the wider the betie). Of course it is a dangerous place, with a strong cross- current. Q. — Where do you anchor ? A — We can amhor at Cape Charles btibre entering the channel, but we generally an> hor at Grandines. We only anchor at Cape Charles when we are caught in a fog or something. Q— Well. what next V A —I have already sus-'gested to the Government engineer there to tiike away that Barre Rodier altogether so that it will give us a chance if W' ai'e coming down and are caught m a log to ancho>- between Cape Charles and Cape LaUoche, and ii will give us a chaiuw to meet another vessel too. 4U - 200 Q.— Do you thiuk it would co.'t much to take away that Barre i A — I don't think it would co^t much lor the water is relatively deep. Q. What is the next improvement '? A. — Cape Laivoche channel should be widened the same as Cape Charles another hundred or hundred and Wlty leet, becaute Iheie is a cross-current there and a strong one, and th»' least thing that may hap- pen the ship— the steering gear or anything that may break down will put the ship ashore. Q — What next ^ 10 A. — Cape Levraut. Q - What does that need ? A — The channel there thould be widened on the North bide the same as Cape Charles chai;n« 1 and for the same nason — there is a strong current there. Q — Ar.; the lights and buoys all right there ? A. — The Cape a Laroche lights help, but they don't work in line — there are t wo beacons. Q. — Are they satisfactory ? A. -Yes. 20 Q- — Is the buoy in the Cape Laroche cut satisfactory 'i A. -Yes. Q — What is the next point V A.— W%'1K in the traveise there i."- only three hnndr-d fi et.but thecur- reut is not so strong as it is down below to we do not consider his place dangerous 01 course if it was widened it would be better, but we don t consider it one of the dangerous plai es. Q. — What is the next improvement ? A. - At Champlaln, they should be careful to dredge that eveiy year or two years, because it fills up at Pouillier Graudmont and Pouillier Car- ;^(j l)entier, because it is quicksand and fills up every year Q.- Are the lights and buoys all right in these two channels ? A. — Yes, we have two beacons at Champlain Church leading up to the cut below and they are all right. If there were lighihouses we could pass Champlain at night. Examined by Mr Boxd. 4) Q. — Has Nicolet beacon been raised and cleared of brush ? A. — They were cleared o[ brush bat not raitied. Q. — Were they satisfactory ' A. — Yes, we can see them well now. leep. 'ape is a lap- will the I'Ollg eur- lace Ollt fear :^ar- 1 to uld li - • — 201 — By Mr Geak continthno 10 20 30 Q — What about Lake St Pet*>r V Q —My opinion is ihat iho lakt's should be wideiieil at least auoiher hundred or two huudred leet. The way it is now it is dangerous, especi- ally in the Riviere du Loup traverse from lightship Noll to the black and white buoy. It is only ihne hundred ieel the s;ime as it was twentyhve years ago when vesstls were three times as small as ihey are now. It has been deepened hut in this part there is so little water ou the bank that if two vessels are passing in that place it is dangerous, so we made a report about that to the Harbor Commissioners there were soundings made since then and have found that trom the black and white buoy a short distance up, there is less water than in the rest of the chanuf 1. That is ou the Souih side and that is exactly the place where there should not be less water, for the viesels going down pass on that side and they are supposed to draw more wnttr going down than thiy do ( oming up and I think that should be dredged out. I think it is a good deal more iiaporiant to dredge this channel especially that traverse, than to cut it at some places where it is five or six hundred ieet wide already (^ — Did you make any representation to the auth^jrities regarding the depth of water past the black and white buoy ' A.— 1 think I said that it w'as dangtrous the way it is now, and that it should he dredged as soon as it was found to be shallow. Q. — Who gave you notice that the water wai' shallow i A. — This notice came from the Engineer of the department of public works Q. — Is the buoying all right in the lake ? A. — Yes, sir. Q. — Have you any suggestions to make above the Hats ? A.— This .'•uggtslion ol widening the channel applies all along, right through the lake. Q. — Alter leaving the lake f A.— Opposite He Au Corbeau they are dredging. — It snould be -100 feet wide there. Q.— What channel had you there before they commenced dredging i A.— It was a natur il channel, and was about 500 feet for the draught of water we had then. After the ships were bigg<'r,we began to touch, and then they ccmmencid to dredge, and are working at it now. Q. — Then the noxt point ? A. — Coutrecoeur channel should be widened to 400 Ieet. It is widen- n ler ci- nd ive :ia8 liat a ide ort ou ess sed hat Jge ere ing hat >lic ht im ig '/ ght iiid en- — 202 - ed now on the bt'nds, and this chMiini'l is siifcr than the luko is.uud th' ro is gtiHTally moro water on the Bank hire than on the Lake. —That is, in the 1( wer |>art of the Contreroeur channel, opposite lie St Ours.— In the small travers there is very little water on ihe Bank Q. — What would you advise ? A — It wants? to he widened, because iher.' is a cro?s current there. It should he widened to -100 feet the same as thi' Lake. Q — Wouldn't you like more room where there is a cross current ? A — I think 400 feet is >ufficient. — It wouid be a 80 A.— The most important plane i- Pointe aux Trembles, specially from the church to the band below. Thev are worki-ig at Kagle Island where there is much more room than at Pointe aux Trembles. The channel should be widened another 100 feet, because it is a cross current through the na- tnial ( hannel, and some of it flows north of Isle StTherese, and when you come up with a ship you have to steer outside the buoys, and when you come between the two buoys below the chuich, the current oitches the stern of the ship, and I have seen many vessels aground above ihe two buoys lielow the church. Q. — Are the lights at Pointe Aux Trembles satisfactory ? 40 A.— Yes. m — 203 — Q.--Havt' they bt'on allt-red within the last two yoars.siuoe thf bridge has btH'u altered ? A — The tall one burnt two years ago that was replaced by a i)ole. And they are building one there now that will inaKe it all riyht. Q.— Well, ab )ve Pointe Aux Trembles V A. — It is all right Q. — Don't you want soaie more bnoy.s there ? ■ IIow many buoys have you between there and Montre.tl ? A. — Two ab )ve Longue Pointe, and I'rom that there is only one up to 10 Longueuil, on the Gagnon shoal. Q— Don't you think there should be more there? A. — Well, if there were, more it would be more satisfactory in bad weather Q. — In the last two years, have there been any more placed Irom Lon- gue Point up ? A. — There is- one at Longue Pointe, a black one, and the wd one wa»i taken a little further down. Q.- After you pass the red buoy at Longue Pointe, would youreoom. mend any additional iiuoys belbre you co;ne to l..oni;ueuil Bay ? 20 A. — ll there was one about half way between the black buoy and the red buoy, on the North side, it would help us in bad weather. I recommend that the out opposite Longueuil church be widened at least to 600 feet. It is only ?,<)() feet. Q. — In going down there,do you go down the middle ol' the channel ? A — We have marks to pas.s the cut - There are no beacons but we use the chuich steeples as marks. Q — What would yon lecommend lor marks ? A. — I recommtnd good marks on the vvharl ahead of the vessel going up. go Q. — There is nothing leading into the harbor at all 1 A.— No !.ir.there is only one buoy opposite the Longueuil church, and another one opposite the Longueuil whaif. Q. — What maiks do you steer for ? A. — There i.s a steeple in Montreal that we can keep in line with a house, and thi re is Boncherville Church that we keep in line with a bush. Q. — What do you recommend lor leading marks ? A — I recommend biir beacons or lighthouses with red lights, so we rould get in at night. If that i)lace was cut another 600 feet, and two range lights in Montreal. ,. (^. — Where would you recommend th • ran^e lights ? dgo >ok». loys p to bud Lon- vvani .!om. and er. I ist to lU'l ? wo joiiig i.aud ith a bush. we two — 204 — A — Just liki! that stoupit! and hou>e that we keup in liuo now. Q. — And bt'low ? A. — ir thure were lights at Monlroal we don't need thoin bolow . Q.— Would the>e lights enable you to enter the port at night '( A. — Yes sir, with the widening of the channel, opposite Longueuil, or the Forsythe shoal. Q. — What have you to say about the channel Irum IleRondeand Miintreal :" A — It should bo dredged I'loni one side to the other, - from He Ronde 10 to the wharf, the way it is is dangerous Q — Did you ever have any trouble there ? A.— No sir, but 1 have had many frights. — You leave the port with a ship, aud you have a current. When you catch the current it sets you right straight to the wharf, and you have to steer lor He [{onde, right straight ior the centre, or somctinies on the South side until you have caught the cuirent, and then the current strikes the ship on the stern, aud whttu you put your helm over, if she answers the helm it is all right, but if not. you have to go on the Island. If it was clear to the wharf on the North side, you could steer between the island and the .M wharl, and it doesn't matter after you pas>> there, so long as you are clear of the island. But now, as it is, you are afraid to go too close to the Molson Shoal, that stretches about 150 f -et outside. Or perhaps you are coming up the river, and it is haey and you are right in the luir- rowest place and the worst, and then you see another vessel leaving port and you have to stop and drop down, and if you stop the engines alto- gither, you can't steer ; but if the place was clear you could tro near the wharf, aud still leave enough room for the other. Q. — If the improvement that you sugge-it was cirried out, there would be no trouble in that way ? :]() A. — No, if they dredged the whole place up to the wharf, there would be no trouble in arriving or leaving the harbor. Examined by Mr. Bond. 4u Q. — Have you before recommended that this should be dredged ? A. — We did, sir — More than once. Q. — Reverting the order, and going down, have you any suggestions to make, or will those you have already made apply going down as well as coming up ? A —Yes sir. it is about the tame. . I — 205 — Q. — With lii^hls and hiioyu '( A.— It in all the same. EPAMINED HY MU (iKAU Q — How oltt'ii do I hey hWt'up thf rivur ! A. — For u Rfiod luauy yoars tht-ro Wat* no swcHpiiig that I know ot'.buf thorn WU8, lhi« la^t lew fears, -ll fliotild In .svfupL ovi'ry yuar, especial' ly ill the narrow and uhalluw piuoes Untie a year will do, but in plaoe.s like Capo La lidche or the Richelieu out there may be some mIoiioh carried 10 iu in the winter time. Q — ll nhould be done iu the spring V A. Yes sir, al iho ()pellin^ of nuvigatioii.for when thi; ire breaks up. It freezes to the bolttom, and slays iheie all winter; and in the spriiiig bi;nds, and beside.s that there are two places where Wf have to wait for the coming-down vesa-l ; and at nig'it you can't see any vess'l. You may see lights, but you don't know what kind of a ves sel it is that is coming down. 1 wouldn't advise to try and make it navi- gable at night. Q. — Couldn't you change that channel and put it on the North side? A.— W. II, there are leading lights there, but they have given up the old channel because the dredging was too hard. Q. — It would be the best channel if it could be made V A. -Yes. Q — And you could uavigate it at night i A —Yes. Q. — That was the old channel bolore ihe Contrecoeur Channel wae made ? A. — Yes sir, ih.it was the natural channel, but they f.juiid that the diedginji' ttiere was too hard, and I ley cut the Contrecoeur Channel because the dredging was i-asier. It we get up as far as Grondiue before dark with a slow steamer, in the fall, when thi; days are short — Well, if 43 29 au but iiil- •ii'd ui). r it four row the ?_ ' rtri' hero . seo V08 lavi- lide? > the wais thai lefore ell, if kOC — from Point uux Troiubleh.the channel was so v\e couhl work at night, we could get in. And it could bo done if vre had the iraproveiurfnts I have . mentioned, with the lights we have at Point auxTrenibles if we had a gus buoy at L')ngue Point and one at Longueuil and two good range lights at Montreal, a gas-buoy would be uetvssary iu case the smoke would pre- vent us seeing the lights, and the channel widened to 60 • feet, there would be no danger at night And the Molson shoal dredged all over, as 1 said before . Q. — Could you not navigate further up the river thau Grondine, if 10 you had gas-buoys ? A. — No, it wouldn't b.' safe lo pass Cape Li Roche at night, unlcs* with a line night and a special ship and high water ? Q. — I suppose you mean a fast ship ? A. — No, I mean .i ship that steers well. Q— Y"U have mentioned several placs where you would like the channt 1 widened — would you not like the cliannel widened throughout from here li) Quebec ' A. — Yes sir, 1 woulJ likt* it widened to four or five hundred ieet,and the lake should be 500 feet j() Q. — Except in the special cases where you want iJOO feet or over ? A — Yes, sir. (j — Do you think 50 fi'ct sufficient ? A. — Well, for the pn'sent it should be sufficient, but the increasing size of the ships — It may be that when the channel is 500 feet, the ships may be twice as big as they are now, and so we wouldn't be any further ahead. Q. — Wouldn't you recommend 600 liet between Mouireal and Que- bec 'i A - It would be belter, of course. 8(1 *\' —What depth of Water do you advise having the channel V A. — 29 feet .hroughout at low water. If lake St. Peter were dredged to 6 feet wide, it should lie made navigable at night, and instead of having light-ships, hitve piers with lighthouses. At the lower end of the Lake there is a lightship coming in lin« with a light on shore, and in- stead of th it it should be a pier with a light on top. and then below the Traverse, that black and white buoy should be a gas buoy. Q. — Most of the buoys in the river are spar buoys ? A.— Yes. Q. — And in a few important place* you have can buoys ? 40 A-Y«»- we >ve . at re- tTl' , if the nid ing lips her •ue- ged I of the in- Ihe 10 — 207 — A. — On the Noith side of the rivt-r thejr are black '( A — No,on the south side ihey are hla»k, and on the North ^ide rid Q. — Do you think it would be un improvement to increase the luim- ber ol' Can buoys, having flHt topped buoys and conical buoy* ? A. — Take lor instance ihe Conirecoeur channel — at a distance it is impost^ible to distinguish the colors on the buoys. 1 don't think the color makes a grmt difference to the pilot, tor we know we have tnete buoys in range. Supposing theie was a red buoy in place of a black one there, it would make noditt'erence to me,lur 1 would know that it was a buoy out of its i)lace. Q — But if they wen* of a differe.it --hape, ih.'y would be more easily picked up than l)y color — 11 you had a fiat buoy on one side of the rhan- nel, and a conical buoy on the othir fide, you could distinguish them more easily. A — In my opinion that do('su't make much difference The only thing I want here is to have the buoys as lug as p.'s>ible. As lor the shape^ it makes no differcnci'.so lon^ as we see it. For suppose contrecoeur chan- nel you have two range buoys, and if it i.-* thick jso you would want lo see thf color or fliiipc of the buoys, you doii'l get into the channel at all. So when you see the colorand shape of the buoys, it doesn't matter much ■*^ what ( olor or shape it is, as long as you s>'e the buoy. There is a range on the South side and another on the North side. So I don't think the shape oi the buoy is of very much importance. Q. — You are iiware thai international buoy regulations call for buoys of different shapes? A. — Yes sir, because in most ports they see the buoys hefore they sie the land, and they know where they are by the shai)e oi the buoy, but here it is different, and il we don't see the land, we don't run. Q. — What about beacons generally on the route ? A — They could improve a good many of them. There are th»> beacons 30 for the lower i)ait of Contnia^ur channel — they are as big as the others, but they aie so hir that they should 1)6 bigger than the others. Q — 'What depth of water do you consider it absolutely necessary lo have between the ke< 1 of a louded I oat as she lies at the wharf, and the depth of water give in the channel? A. — That depends on the shape of the boat. II' it is a ffat-bottomed boat, and a big ship, a foot and a half is not too much. Q — That is the minimum ? A .—Yes. Q. — Would you fee safe in taking a boat dowii with a foot and a half 40 of water i to — 208 10 20 -I) A —Yes sir, if she s^tet-is well ; and ilshe is an old-fashioned shtpe with u round bottom, and a keel about nine inches high, oi' coui>e you can put her down a Utile more. Q.— Did you ever have the .,uestion raided about the possibili'y ()ra flat-bottonn d vet^sel drawing more at the bilge, it' she gets a list on, than fihe does at the keel ? A.- -Yes, sir.I consider that a vessel that has a list of about l!S inches draws that much more watt-r. Q. — And pcFsibly the bilge will draw more than the keel ? A —Yes, sir, if she has 18 inches of a list, the bilge will draw about that much more than the keel. Q — So that shows the necessity of having the vessel in good trim before she starts out V A. — Yes. sir Q. — When you are making a sharp ^ed to ? A. — 1 think the dredging of Richelieu liar and Cape Lalloche is making the water run down faster. From Cape LaRoche up the dredsring makes no difference at all, it is the same amount of water passing, but down there the bar keeps the water up, nnd the same at Richelieu. There is only -'J. feet of water at low w'aler, and the bar goes right across, and kee| s the water biuk, but now this has been cut I'iOii feet and 211 feet dt'cp, and theie is f-o muih moif \s ater goes down with the tide, and the same at Cjipe LaK'f che ; and these last IL' or J.") years there is a diffenMjce in the tide in the fall of the year ol about three feet. The water is going down now about three fei t mfre than it used to 15 year.s ago. Q — Then are you of opinion tl)at after the channel is deepened and stiaiuhti ned, it is going to carry the water off more quiikly, giving you lehs depth ? A. — I think it is done now except at Cape LaRoche. Richelieu is oil I'a an ItJS im •or, lull illy jrht iter to? • is but iiere and >'ep. a me the awn and yoU L'U is — 209 — deeper, but if Cape LaRoohe vas wiileued 1 t) lei-t I think it would car- ry more water down. Q." Did you over look iuto the advisibility of a dam aud a lock at Richelieu rapids ? A — I have heard olit.but an eiigiueor is more comp /tent than I am to givi' an opinion about thai. But in my opinion it is an impossibility. It will coKt more than the drcdgini? of the channel to 3G feel lioia Montreal to Quebec, and 1 don't think it is possible to keep a dam there in thf bpring of the year. If you saw the ice going down you would say it 10 was impossible to keep a dam there tor one year. Q. — But as we deepen and straighten the channel, we will get the water flowing down so last as to leave us almost dry up here, and if it arrivt'd a( that point, nd it were practicable to imt a dmn th"ie, we could give you watt'r right up to Lake St. Pettr of a normal depth of 30 feet without dredging. A — I think it would kee[) up the wal. r as far as th<> Lake, but I dont think it would go any further That d im would keep it only at high water mark. Q. — Do you thiuK (he question ofsuflicieut importance to recommend the Government to gel a report by a good enjjineer ? A. — I think myself it is impossible, what should be done is to dredge the rest of the run up here to 80 feet and leave Cape La Roche and Riche- lieu, and wait for the tide there Now we go light down, except at St. Augustine, but if you are afraid of diiving the water away, dredge above, and then we would only have to wait for half a tide — a couple of hours instead of a whole day, as when we had to wait f.'»r the tide to pass Cape La Roche The more the water got^s down, of course it his a tendency to bring th'* water from here. Q — You have been Preiiident of the Quebi'c Pilots for how loiii^ ? A. — -0 years I have be an officer, and Pr> sidenl the last 5 or (i years. I have been Prcsidt'iit for 12 years in all Q. — You have been on the Committee all the time ? A.— Except two years. Q, — And you have been acting a.-; |)iiot ever since you have been admitted V A. — Yes sir, lor 26 years — ever since I was admitted. And fuither deponent saith not. A. W. G. MACALISTER, Olficial Stenographer. 4u I, the undersigned, Alex. W. G. Macalister.of the City and of Mont- Jj 80 I — 210 — real Official Stenographer.do htn-eby declare that the foregoing pages are a true aud faithful transcript of the evidence given in this matter by 1 liot Auge, by me taken by means of Stenography. And I have signed. ■ A. W G MACALISTER. Official Slenugrapfiei . 10 DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN h. R. DEMERS, OF THE STEAM SHIP "CAMPANA". 2f ■60 + D Taken this lyth day of Novembr, 1900. Examined by Mu. Gi.AR. (in the chair) Q —How long have you been at Sea, Captain i A^-Twelve years in the Government Steamer, and four years in the Campaua. Q —Most of your lime is spent in the Gulf ' A -VfeW this last four years I have been in the Gulf -completely, but during the V2 years I was in the marine department. I visited the lighthouses all over the Gulf in the Steamer Druid or Napoleon, and I have been a pilot. Q._Do you hold a pilot's certificate ? A.— Yes sir, for and below the Harbor of Quebec. Q.— What Is your usual voyage now ? A.— From Montreal to Pictou. Q— You don't go around he Newfoundland coast at all ? A.— No, sir. Q —How are the lights entering Pictou ? A -The li-hts in Pictou are good lights, but the lights m Prince Edward Islai.d are fixed lights and red lights, and I am completely against red lights for long riUige lights. g.—Would you suggest any alteration ? A.— Yes, I would suggest that they be difetiuguishable. > a lot er. thtt oly, the d I ■mce etely 211 - 10 Q. Fliifh lights ? A. — Yfs ►ir 1 always preltr flash lights to fixed liyhls. Q — Arc Ihf log signals aiouud Priinie Edward ishiud -atisfaotory ? A. — There are uoue. Q — Shouldn't there be bome ? A. — Well, it would be good if there was oiie at the West Point on Prince 1 dwjid Island. There is one at I'lilseuininac.but it is 2"i miles away There is a ret f there outside ol West Toiiit, and it is marked by one ol' these automatic whistling buoys; and tht; »ither day it was bloAinji a gale of wind the North-Easf, and I come to anchor under West Point for 10 or 12 hours, and when the wind went do \n, I got under way, and went around West Point, and when I thouirht I was clear of the buoy, I hauled up and sha;)ed my course lor Gaspe Coast, and of course I was always anxious about this buoy, as I would like to hear it And all at once I heard a noise right beside me, about may b' "iO leet from us, and I then heard the ni.ise one or twice and no more. So I conclude that these whist- ling buoys are hardly any warning at all, and they ar • a danger to navi- gation, for they are great big iron buoys, and if I had got foul of that buoy, I would have come to urief certainly I complaiMed of it to the ma- .,,^ rine department, and they said that Captain Fraser had passed and said it was whistling all right. In the day-lime and in hue weather, you pass ulose and it is whistling all right, but it it is blowing hard, at night and a big sea, yon don't hear it. Q — Then you want a siren or some ither kind of fog whistle at West Point or the nearest to the West Point reel ? A. — Yes. sir. Q— What next? A. — At Cape Egmont. there is a red fixed light, and it is no use. Q — What would you recommend ? A. — A bright light, even if a fixed light, I would soom'r have it but I would recommend a flash light. Q. — And then yor. shape your course for Gaspe V A. — Yes, but I call in at difierent places, at G-rand River, where there is another red fixed light ; I see thi; lights in the houses before I see it. I want anoiher flash light there. Then after leaving Grand River, vre j;o around lo Cai>e Despair, and there is a good revolving light theie And then vs-e go to White Cape, vvhicli is a fixiid white light, and not very important — it is only for navigating along the Coast. Q. — What is the next place ? A. — Plato, that i.s not very important, but Gaspe is a flash light, and there is a guu there also. 30 , fh6re would be nothing left oHit, neither crew nor ship, nor luiything at nil, in ■.\ ''Ver on the big Cape where the lighthouse is. Theie should bo a kiren on the reef and the lighthouse should bt' moved to the reef. Q.— Alter leaving Cape Chatte V A. — It 18 a very fine run, and a straight course right due west as iar as Malane, and then theie is a shoal. There should be another fog signal there — I would like it very much. Q.— Where the light is ? A. -Yes Q — Would you suggest anything in the way of marking the shoal 'i A. — I think \ lightship with a log horn i>« needeil to mark the shoal. Several ships have gone on shore thtre. Q. — How is Father Point ? A.-- That is a pilot Station, and 1 think a fog horn would be very much needed. Q - -Passing these different lights, there has lieen a request that the daymaiks should he made more perlect, as in the present season of the year,' he pi<'5ent marks get obliterated with snow, and the stations are not distinguishable one irom the other V — Have you anything to suggest ? 1 id I bitti rtin vht- r 4 rnal hat lore F»- the big reef .ard ;ked the 3 use i tar ^iial )al 'i loal. rery the ^the not ? I ! 10 20 oO — 215 — A. — It is necessary for stiaugers, but they are all distinguished by paiut. Q — But it is covered with snow ? A. — If you follow the list of lights, it gives the way the light is built, and the height and ererything. Q — But even the shape is deceptive when covered with snow ? A.— Well, you could have distinctive marks, a spar or something, as has been mentioned. At any rate there should be more distinctive dey- marks. Q. — Have you anything to suggest between Father Point and Que- bec ? A — Well, it is pretty well lighted, I have nothing to say just now except Bellechasse light should be made occulting and distiugui.-hable from ship's anchor lights Q.- The light at Cape L'Aigle ? A. — It is a small light, a pole light. Q — Entering the Port of Quebec, is there anything to suggest V A. — They should build a lighthouse on the Western end of Orleans Island. Q— Would that be sufficient ibr entering ? A.— Yes sir, for having range lights at Quebec. Q. — Don't you want something on the break-water ? A — There is a light there now, and one on the remparts of Quebec, which miikes a beatiful leading light, except that it is lighted with elec- tiicity, and sometimes, if the electric light is defective, we don't see it, but I think a good light on the West end of Orleans Island would di) I urge very t-tro!igly that there should be a good light built on the West end of Orleans island Q. — You have navigated from Quebec to Montreal at night ? A. — We always come at night with the Campana, when it is a nice clear night. Q. — Do you think the St. Lawrem^e could be mad" navigable for large steamers at night, with propir lights .ind buoys ? A. — I dout't that veiy much. It might be coming up with a ship not fully laden, but going down with the curniit the least little thing obscu- res, and yi.u lose the marks, it doesn't l^ike much to put you out with a big ship, when you are deeply laden, the least thing puts you out, and you are lost, lor you'can't stop, the tide always takes you down. But when you are coming up against the tide, you can stop and keep your direction all right for a little time, and you can anchor. i) t, as f- e- w le us }0, 'C- it, I ce or lot :u- •A ud lilt >ur 210 - iO Q.-- You think it could bi' mack' iiiivignble, couiing up with a liht-slnp. These two liifhts in line lead you up tlirough the lake as lar as the Yamaohiche buoy, but then there is another eours ■ - you haul up more to the North, and there you have no leading light but at the Western end of that range there is No :>.. lightship, and I think a lighthouse on the mainland should be ele- 10 vated enough to serve with that lightship for a range light ou that course; and the same with No 1, lightship and anotiier lighthouse on the maiu land right to the westward, to make another range for the rest of the lake; and then we have the range of L'Isle aux Raisins I Would also suggest that a range liglit be placed where the two beacons of Traverse de Nicolet are Also a rang.' light at Chainplain where the two beacons are which would le id down clear of I'oiul Cilrouille. Q. — What about gas-buoys ? A. — i haven't much faith in them. Q. — Would these ranges do going down too ? A. — Yt K f-ir, just the same. You see when it is a clear moDulight night we go both up and down without any trouble. Q. — You think \Nith these improvements navigation could be made all right fm- coming up ? A, -Yes. (i- — Going down, after leaving' Montreal, have you any suggestion to make V A — No. I don't see anything — You see they are straightening the channel below St Michel right down to Verchen's. Q. —You are your own pilot coming up between Montreal and Que- bec ? A. — No. I carry a pilot. Q. — But you know the river perfectly well ? A. — WtT. I am getting acfjuainted with it. Q.— You (lught to be ? A. — Well, it is a very difficult river. Q. — Have you been in other places ? A.— Yes. Q.— I'd yon find it much more difficult than other places ? A. — Well, Lverpool Kiver is a very good river. Q. — The St Lawrence is the most rlifficult in navigation ? 4U ■60 — 217 — A. — It is prelty difficult — A man that is well acquaiutt'd wi'.h it iH much bettor than a rniin with very little acquaintance. Q — ill your opinion would a more perfect hydrographic surrey of the Gulf hebeneiifial to navigation Y A. — No, the coast is hold and elevated all the way, and I dont see that it would help. But I would like to tell you what happened to rac — Getting under way from Lanoiie at half-past 5 in the morning, coming up the I^avaltrie, Conlricoeur big range light was in sight as well as the Lavaltrie riinge lights. Contrecoeur big range light ri'flected on the wa- ^^ ter, which made it appear as a range The Pilot for one moment mis- took the Contrecoeur light for the Lavaltrie range ; later on, bt^fore it was '.00 late, lh(! Contrecoeur front light appeared, and showed him that he was steering for the wrong range He then hauled her up for Lavaltrie and it was all ri<;ht ; but some remedy should be found tor this I think that the back light must have been too much canted out of the range east- wardly. Q. — Kegarding the width and depth of the channel between here and Quebec, you don't know much about it ? A. — No sir, not very much. -0 Q. — Your ship doesn't draw much water ? A. — No, she is 13 It. 6 ins. loaded.— And 1 generally use the Quebec boat channel. And further deponent saith not. A W. G. MACALLSTER, Olficiul Stenugrajther, m I, the undersigned, Alex. W. G. Macalister, ot the City and District of Montreal, Official 'Stenogrnpher, on the oath I have taken, do hereby declare that the foregoing PHge.s are a true and correct transcript of the evidence given in this matter by Captain Demers, by me taken by means of Stenography. Aud I have signed. A. W.G. MACALISTER, Of/iciet Stenographer L. R. Demers 4V i::li^^' y 1 — 218 — DEPOSITION OF CAPTAIN U. C. FRASEIt, OF THE STKAMSHir "HON AVISTA.' Taken this 19th day of November, 10 0. Examined uy Mii Gear, (In the Chair.) Q — How long have you been in the trade ? 10 A.— I haye been 25 years in the St. Lawrence trade without « break. Q. — Your piincipal yoyages huve been between what points '? A.— Montreal, calling at Charlottetown, Sydney and St. Johns New- foundland. A. — Well, suppose we begin with St Johns Newfoundland — Ima- gine you are bringing a vet-sel up the Gulf, after leaviu r St. Johns, what imjirovements have you to suggest on the Newfoundland coast ? A. — I don't know that I can find very mufh fault, with the excep- tion that 1 think there should be a first class whistle on Cape Pine.— There is one on Cape Race. 20 Q._Alter leaving Cape Pine ? A. — I .would like a good light on Bird Rock —I am not calling at Sydney now. Q — Well, before taking up the Bird Rocks, have you any suggestion to make regarding Cape Ray ? A. — No, it in a fairly good light there, but of course if the light were more powerful it would be better ; and it appears to me that all the whistles are inferior. They should be first class steam whistles on points such as Ca|)e Race and Cape Ray and Cape Pine, Q —Have you any suggestion to make regarding a light East of Cape oO Ray coming up the Gulf V A —No. Q. — Would it be any improvement if there was a better light at Port Basque ? A.— No. I have no suggestion to make at all. for I don't think we have any business in there. Q.— But some do get in there ? A.— Well, I think if they would pay more attention to their compas- ses they wouldn't get there. Q.— Well, entering Sydney, have you anything to suggest V 4) lit oil -Tt* he ipe ort we )a8- — 219 — A — Ye-, hir, u whole lot — There isn't a light there that yon can tell from a schooner's light, except Scutterrec. Many a time this summer in thick hazy weather I have made Low Point light, and I had to get other liffhtK and the little red light at I^ingHn to show that it was Low Point. There was nothing to show in itsell that it was Low Point And Flint Island, you have to he close to distinguish it. It is Riri)po8ed to he a re- volving light, and yon might as well huvc a fire-bug. Q. — What would you suggest V A. — A group flashing light at Low Point, and a steam whistle. And 10 on Flint Maud I would like a good revolving light with more power (J. — Have \ou anyting lurther to suggest about (he entrance to Syd- ney ? A — "Well, I would suggest a bell-buoy at Petrie I^edge. Q. — A gas- buoy ? A — 1 would like one at South Bar. Q— With a bell on it V A — Well, thw bell would be of very little use there, lor it would sel- dom ring ; there i(s hardly any swell there unless there is a strong easter- ly wind. A gas-buoy is all that is required. 01 course I don t need any. ^(, thing. Q.— And after leaving Sydney ? A — I would s-uggest a good revolving light on Bird Rock. Q — What about the Cape Br.'foi< Coast V A.— I think it is pretty near all right. Q. — Anything wanted at Cape North V A. — There is a fairly good light there. Q. — Ls there ;i log-signal there V A — No sir, and there should be one, if you di-*tinguish the whistle well. There is one at St Paul now, and of course if there was one at Cape ;^(j Noith distinct enough, it would be better. Q. — On general principles there should be a fog-signal wherever there is a light V A — Where there is ,i leading light there should be a fog-signal Q. -Yt-u can get them distinct enough ? A —Yes, sir. Q — Well, then, what lights do you suggest at Bird Rocks ( A. — A good revolving light. Q. — Is the fog horn all right i A. — They can't use a foghorn there ; they use gun cotton. They can't get water or something or other. Th^y are dependent altogether on rain water there. or u't id II 220 — 10 ;lu 4) Q — Why couldn't they use a coiuleiisiT ? A. — That is truo ; it is a fog hoin that is want(>d; Gun Cotton to my mind is a thing that will only dfceivo you; you don't hour the voport till it gels up there, and you cau'l tell whore it is. Q — You think it is better to have a log horn ? A— C!ertainly — a good siren. Q. — Alter leaving Hird lioek, where do you make lor ? A. — Fame Point generally. Q. — 1 o you find the light there all rijjht ? A.— No sir, a poor light — I suppose it is a third order light —It wants more power. Q. — How ranch more ? A — It should b-' a lirst class light Q. — And the fog signal ? A. — There is on^' at Cape Rosier, but none at Fame I'oiut, and the one at Cape Rosier is very littl • good ; and there is one at Magdalen too, but you have to be very close in before yon hear them I wouldn't like to say what is thi' reason Thi' hi.rh land btck of them may be the cause. But I think there should be a good whistle at Cape Chatte. I think the rest are all riyht — They are puor lights, but I think if you get Fame Point and C^pe Chatte, 1 don't see any reason why you can't follow the rest. Q— What about Maiane ? A — li is a very poor light, and a good revolving or flash light would be a great improvement Q. — Don't you think the whole !\avi<:alion of the (rulf all the way uj) from ("ape [{osier, would be better lor go )d light* V A. — Yes sir, it would be safer if lh"y were all good lights, and iu my opin.on a fixed light is a thing of the past There are many other lights th;it may look as blight in hazy wcatljcrasa iix' d light ; whereas if it is a Hash or a group flash or revolving, or uiythiii!' like that, you can always knovv it — It is di.stiiict Q. — l)r) you taki' your pilot at Father I'oint ? A. — No, we cany a pilot. Q. — Havi' yr>u any im;'i()vemi'nt to suggest leg.irding Father I'oint ? A. — The light is fairly good there now. Q — Only fairly good ? 4. — Yf-K sir, it wou'd be better with a stronger light, mid I would certaiu'y have a s-tronger light at Hie That is a whistle that we hear fair- ly well, but I suppos" it could be improved too its ne ut to 8l». Ilk ;ne he ni> ill hor eas •ail It uld air- — 221 — 10 j'.» 30 4U Q. — Have you evor como in through the Straits ut' Hello Isle i A. —No, sir. Q. — Have you ever found the current setting irregularly aiM'oss thtre between Fame Point and Anticosti ? A. — 1 can't .'■ay that I found much curienl setting ;hmoss that way, but I have louiid it very irregular up and down the shore Stia-ii nes it is stronger than ether.-, ;uid simet lines it siMs oil a id ••ioineliiues on. I' is governed largely b. the winds, but not to such a great extent, I don't think, as they give it credit for Q. — III your opinion, would a more perfect hydrographic survey of the Gulf be an aid to navigation '( A — Yes sir, I think so ; they have been at it already, and have given us a great deal ol inform. itimi, or ruiher they have proved certain things that were only supposed before, and I think if they tould prove a liitlo mare it would be'ter it. It is the magnetie inllueiMe ihal plays th" mis- chief with these currentf^. (J. — Did ymi ever go to ihe. North of .Vniicosti ? A. — No, but I have always understood that you can't rely ou yonr compass at all there till yo'.i g.-t cl"an out, even with a wooden ship. And the nearer yon ipproai'h this North shore the worse the migneti,- inllu- ence beconi'»s. Q. — Alter leaving Father Point, have you anything to suggest ? A. — \Vxt point to the We.>i\vard. Tln-r.' is a daiigrv of going down and gettiim to the Northward of 'he lights and not hearing the whistle. You are always timid about the oiher side because of the reefs there 'i*. — Would a turning light on Orleans Island be of assisiauce in coming into the harbor of Quebec ? A — Thtre are lio-lils tlieie, but there are eoiifuNin.ing down that the Cape Race li^ht is rather too far to the Northward, and is hidden by the land f A — Ye.s, you have to open the Cape out b 'fore you cm get the light. Q~What improvement would you suggest 7 A.--1 don't know as you could imp'.ove it very much You could take it a little farther to the South-West, but 1 dout know,as it would be very 29 y ih It el ht Il- ls, t. r!y bis its .ht ing out lllg fht. ake ery f 1 - 223 — much good Ih.n-. But I rertainly would reco.n.n.nd a whistle or horn at Cape I'iuo. Bu. I would hav. it a. Western Cape, lor u is there they work into Examined nv Captain Riley. Q -When you leave Quebec at night, what have you on t)rleans to jiuide you on your channel between «t Lawrence Point and the South shore ? A. — Nothinsr- 10 Q, -Don't you want someihing there '' The v'Une.. :-As a mark to keep you from going to the Northward ^ Captain Riley -.—Yes. , .^ . i u ., > A.-Kange lights on Orleans Island, say on the North end, or wheie- ever it would suit the best Q -To uuide you down the channel ? A. -Yes, there is nothing b.'ow that, but it is easy below that. Examined by Mr Gear. ,^. Q _ilovv do you find the Ughts on St. Tierre and Miquelon compare with ours ^ A —Thvy are better lights a long way. Q_And in your opinion our light, should b' equal to them ? A — Yes, all ours should he e(iual to the.s.'. , ,, . Q. -Have you anything to suggesi regarding day marks on the toast coming-jap^^^^ 1 don't know.unless you plue hack some of the old be«co,.s^ I„ thick weather i: you happened to strike the.n and know them.it would ,„ ^" 'gLwhen you get a Northerly wind and snow you can't distinguish t lit? tn '^ 1 A -No it is hard to know the land, unle-s you have some m nk. Many of th. old coasters have marks about the la.id they that are tami bar with But It is often diffieul. -venfor me that has hen so long at it. There is so much sameness to it. (^ -And if covered with fresh snow it alters the appearance ( A -Yes sir unless there is some building or something like that ' O -How would It do to have a fia-pole or something like that throu'^rh .he middle of the lighthouse or alongside ot it. with a t>'ill /^"'l penant or two balls and a triangle, or some distinctive mark on each light- house 5 li 1(J 29 — 224 — A —But th»' lighthouses themselvcK aiv niarkod ? Q- — But a mail caini' in and said it had bet-n snowing lor fivu days, and he struck a lighthouse, and he didn't know it from the rock of Gi- braltar, for it was all snow-white ? A,— Yes. anything like that would be very good Q._You think there should be more distinctive day marsk ? 4. — Yesi, sir. All 'hese places had beacons on your old charts, and. there ii* one on riures Point yei And there used to be one on Frigate Point. Fame Point and Point L'Heureuse. Q— IIovv many years have you been navigi;ting th(! Galf ? A — 2.') years, or rather since 1876. Q. -And nearly the whole of your time has been taken tp in the Gulf ? A.— All the summer season has been taken up in the Onlf. Q. — You don't cross the Atlantic at all ? A. — No, not in the summer time. Ami further deponent saith not. A. W. G. MACA LISTER, 0(/irinl Slenograjiher. 1 the undersigned. Alex. W G. Macalister, of the City and District of Montroal.Official Stenographer, do hereby declare that^the foregoing pages are a true and ortant for them going in for the pilots, lor il there was a buoy moored in about seven a horns ol water it is elose enough to the land but sometimes ships lose a little time for they stop out too i.r They have to sound and they don't like to use the lead all the time, so they stopout two or three miles^and a boat has to row to the ship and that takes a good deal of time But if there was a buoy there they could go close to the buoy iu safety and there they would be sure to find the boat. . , • i , T7„fhu,. Q._What would you suggest regarding the (og-sigual al l^athei Point ? A.— Just an ordinaiy fog-signal. f^k A Rift' 11 ^ A.-Yes. it would be belter for there is a signal at Bie and it should de di He rent. Q —What is the one at Bie like i A - It is every minute a long blast and is quite satisfaotory. It is a great improvement on the gun we had before . Guns are no use. At Father Point there is a bomb and it gives no report and it is no use. 4U 8U ill a Id Id a At r - 220 — 10 29 30 Q —You want a 8ir*n ' A -Yes. w." aski'd lor it a lung time ago but lU'Vor got it and as ««■ are about it now we will Just ask for it agnin Q— What is the next point ? ■ r i, A -Well we go to Red Island now and we should have the light- ship removed into deeper water than it is, lor it is too f.r No.th and it would be better ifit were larther South in about 'wenty fathoms ol water. Q —What about the light ? , , , • A -It is all right on Red Island, but this gun on Green Island is the same kind of a bomb and it should be improved. Q— Is the fog --ignal on Red l-land all right V A.— YeB.except that it should be removed as I say Q.- And Green Island ? A.- Yes, it is abreast of Red Island and th.-re they are us.nga boml) every twenty minuter and it is too long an interval between the two. Q — Would you recommend a siren '? A —Yes, it would be far better, very much superior to anything we had before. We had a gun before that was only fired every half hour and with the ship.s we have now that is not often enough Q_How often should the blasts sound ? A.- livery minute or two minutes, Q -Aft.M- l.-aving Green Island that is the next point < A -White Island light ship is all right where it is-It is a dift.'rei.t whistle from Red Island. There are two blasts instead of one and then the next plea we go to on the North side whioh we ase on the Urge boats is Cape Salmon. I am not prepared to say how to account for the peculiarity of the fog signal there, but we hear it better when we are about six or sev. 1. miles from it on the South side than when we are half a mile from it on the North side. . j > Q _ 4nd you would recommend that that be changed '. A -Well, we can only say that it is defective as it is and if the en- gineers can make it any better then we want it better. Q._What is the next point • A -W come to the Traverse. There is nothing in the way until you come to the Traverse and there we want another pier where the black buoy is at Point St Roch like the one they have built, with a light on it. Q.— And a fog signal? A.-Well, there is a fog signal on the light ship and it would be 43 — 227 very good to hav. on. ou the puM- lor there we are getting uito the ai- .owllnd we want everythnrg to help us Then alter that we wan .as buoy abreast of the new pier that is in position now. We will .all That the West end ..f the middle ground in the Traverse. Q— And wha' next V A -W. want another ga. buoy between the Pillars and the Chan- nel rateh ou th . South Side and that brings us to Crane Is atjd Chan- „,1 Wewantthaiehanneltobe.tiaighlened and made at east h^t fthoins deep lor now we have only about four fatho-n. It that were ,0 t^U woi^d make it possible to go through a,^ time oi tl^ tuh, bu now we have ships drawing :^6. 27 and 28 feet of water and we ha^e to wait for the tide. O —Is it too narrow ^ . . * A.-.Yes il they are going to ^ ...They will have to deepen the St Thomas Channel some places^ That is juM about the shallowest place we ha", e in the r.ver and it should be d.'epened to thirty feet Q. — Any other improvements '? \.u.f A -No. till will we come to R dleehasse ami there we want hat light changed from a fixed light as it is now to a.. uiU.ng or revolv.ng or flashing light. O— What above Bellechasse ? A -W.. want a buoy at Beaumont Shoal abreast ot Point fet Lawren- '^ ce The channel is ve.y narrow there and we want a gas buoy. It would be" V 'y useful for meeting vessels. Now there is no guide a. all you have ,„ use your judgm. nt and sometimes you may go astray Q -AVhat have you to sngg.st belwe n there and Quebec, i A. -We want a light on the West end of Orleans to come out ot the harbour Q —Don't you want one to go in ? A — W^' have two but they are not very satisfactory. —Are they ever obscured V A .-Yes, they were part of the summer with the new elevator. One '**^ of the lights was behind it. rt us. lid lat L'll- IVf th. OlH — 228 — Q —Is the light ever ubacured by mist i A. — Yes, it is there is no other alternative but to anchor. Q. — What will you require in that case ? A — These two lijjhts that are there now. We would keep them all the same and we want another one on the West end of Orleans Island, just one light there would do, for they can make that one light show a curtain eoloi when you are too lar on one side and you can keep on the White Light all the time until you get to the Island of Orleans and then you see Point St Lawrence and it is all right, but till we get that we want 10 a gas buoy at Point Levis. Q. — Wha! distance from the land V A. — In eight fathoms of water. Q. — In g'ing out Irom Quebec will the one light you have suggested on the West of Orleans be suificient :" A -Yes, Q. — Now going down will the iraproverae.ils you have suggested be quite sufiicient ? A. — Yes, it is ihe very same — We reverse them and they work the same way. -') Q — Do you find all the lights between Father Point and Quebec satisfactory ? A — In general they are good except IJellechasse light which wants to be changetl to a revclvirig flashing, or occulting light ; and we might suggest about the little channel at Crane Island that tehooiiers and all little vessels ought to be lorbidden to anchor there. There is a law but i* is not put in force and thty anchor there in the narrows and it makes it vei\ awkward for us. We don't always like to sink them. (.^. — Do the Uovernraent boats going up and down advi.sf them that they are in dangerous ground where they should not be ? 8U A. — Well, they should but they are not very often about there — they are generally at Quebec. O. — Would you lecommend having some one there continually there to warn them ' A — The by-law should be put in force, and all schooners that anchor there should be reported and hned whether there is an accident or not. Ther.' are lots of other places for them to anchor. I think if the light house k>'ep' 1 on Crane Island were to do that, and there were « few of them fined, iliey would not do it anymore for there is good anchorage all aroundlhere. 4U ts It ill IS it at ?y re lor ot. m all 220 _- Q— Do you ihink all th.' log signals are satislactory h.-twet'ii Father Point and Quebec ? A— They are all right except those I have mentioned Q _Are you satisfied with the present charts that you have and the depth ol water as recorded on them V A^ _Yes, the charts are good enough. Q._\Vhen was the last survey made ? A. — Five or six years ago Q —Don't you think there is a danger ol some shoals changing -iuce .„ then in the narrow channels ? A.— No, unless there are l)onlders carried by the ice. That might hap- pen. Q. — It is probable i A. — Yes, it is possible. Q --iJo yon not think it would be advisable for the Government to sweep the channel as we do in the Upi>er River each spring. Would it not be an aid to the safety of navigation if that were done in the narrow channels Y A. — It would help altnough I can't say 1 have seen many of these boulders rarried away. Q —How about ve.--sels sinking ? A.- We always know it Q —Well, there was a barge sunk there lo.ided with brick a'lout eight or nine yi ars auo Did you know about that ? A —I have known about it, but I never heard of any ac ident hap- pening there for I think she was inside. Sweeping might be done with advantage, but I don't sec that there is always a necessity for it but still we don't know Q _Do you know the cauee o( the Etolia and the Sarraatian touch- ing grorind below Qiiebei; ? A. -Yes. Q. — Has that shoal ever been foand V A. -Yes. Q.— Has the cause of the grounding been discovered f A. — Well yes. the cause was that there are patclies about St Thomas where there i; only iwenty-four feet of water, and not far from there there is thirty feet or more and that is why we ask for dredging at St Tho- mas. Q _-\Vould not these patches be more easily found if you swept the channel instead of trying to find them with the lead ? i) 2« 80 10 p- to it w ht I'- ll h ill ia8 lo- I ho /• — 230 — A — Of course. Q._\Vh;it about the red lijjhts into QuebL"c;--woul(l it not bi' bettor to have them occulting V A. Yes, ol course a fixt'd light is not much use. Q _i)o you receive notices promptly at your otfice in Queb.'c Irom the GoveiiiUienl of any thing wrong in the channel ? A.— Yes, if there is anything Wrong in the channel we do. Q.- Do the Government olRcials attend promptly to the repairs or to any arrangements in the river wheu anything is reported to be wrong A They say they answer us as quickly as possible but I lhini< it 10 might be done a little quicker. Q.— They wait for daylight instead of going at night V A —Yes, and another thing Mr Gregory seems to say they don't give him the boats he wants. Q. — Don't you think these matters should be attended to promptly ? A.— Certainly it is a most important thing. And further deponent saith not. A. W. G. MACALI?)TEli, Ol/icin I Sten og i apli t r JO I, the undersitrned, Alex. \V. G Macalister, of tlie City and Districs of Montieal, Otticial Stenographer, on the oath I have already taken do h''rehy dclare that the foregoing pages are and do contain a true and faithful transcript of the evidence given in this matter by Pilot Morin by me taken by means of stenography, the twelfth day oi Decem- ber 190(1. And I have signed A. W G. MACALISTER, Olficinl Stenographer. 80 DEPOSITION OF PILOT ALFRED LAROCHELLE, PILOT FOR THE LOWER ST. LAWRENCE 4U Takui this twellih day of December, 1900. Examined by Mr. Gear. Q.— How many years have you been a pilot. A. — Thirty years. cs Ml It! Ol u- tr. — 2;u 20 Q.-Novv, Pilot l.!i\iiig Fallur I'oint, we will go up the river mul down agHin ? A —Father r(»int light is all right. I.ut then- should be a whi>tle there There is a Poi) ^un therr hut it is useless. Q _Is that the only iinproveuient that you would reeoiuuieud there? A. — Yes. Then we go to Bie and the light is all rii^ht there and the log whistle too Then I would so to lied Island light siiip, and 1 would like to have that shitted into twenty or iwentytive I'a'hoins of water to the Southward where it is. K.-d Is. is all right— it is one ol thebes-t lights 10 we have and there is a (ou whistle there, on the light ship a little to the East. Q. — Is it powerful eiiouuh ? A —Yes, it is a very good whi>tle. It is a steam whistle and not a eoini^ressed air whistle. Thi-u the next place is White Island light ship and that IS all right. Q._Aftrr leaving White Isliuid light shii) / A.— Cape Salmon light is all right, but i don't see why they have not put more powerful light there. The light is all right but it should be stronger. Q.- Is it on an Islnnd ? A —No, it is no ihe Mainland - A big l)old cape where we i;o very close When they put the light there I said why not make it a twenty mile light for it is only a twelve mile light. Q _-\;\'hHt is the disiancG between the two lights ? A— Eighteen miles. Q —Do you want a fog signal there ' A — Tberc is. one there but it is no us ■ for I have passed there within a mile and never heard it, and seven or eight miles to ilie Southward of it they have hea;d the sound. The echo well go up and d'^wn to the wa- ter iurth'r out that is what the enaineer told me. Q - Would be a siren be better 'i A. —Well, 1 don't know wliai the engineer would sugt^est but there shouhl bi' seme means of having it better than it is now. Q.— After leaving Cape Salmon ? A -Then we come t lie Lower Traver»e light ship. That should be replaced by a permanent |>ier the same as the ui>per light ship is being replaced . And there is a middle b ink there, iind there should be a gas - buoy cloce to the Westward bo we could meet one another. If there was a gas • buoy somewhere on the middle bank in the traverse, about the Wei-t end of the bank on the South side, lor ouoe it is there I know ex- actly where it is ? CO -I J — 232 — Q — Thi'ii al'tt-r leaving thfie ? A.— W'f cuiui- to tht' Chaiuii'l piil-'h Th.-r.' is a j-as— buoy th.-iv iiiul it is all liglit, and ihcii w." vAmn> through ih.' pillars. Thi' liuht is all right thcrt'.hut t lino should 1)>' a gas -buoy soukw ln-n" to thf Southward of the pillars. The Chauuol is very narrow there, and there are patidies and one thing and anoiher iind a gas-huoy wculd make it safer q —Then above that ' A —In that little channel at I'rane Island there is a gas-buoy on the lower end of thi' bank, and at the upitor end there is a small channel but 10 ouly twenty-four feet of water at the entr.mee to the Westward, it should be dredged to thiity feet Q —Shouldn't (he whole channel be dredgeugh but some nights it i- like a iix 'd light, and when it shadi's itself you can't ctunt the soonds exai;tly. Bui there is no mistake there for it is the only one. Q —You would recommend a new light aud a more powerful one. A —Yes. The light is pow.'ri'nl enough bat if it was m )re .xiwerful U would b' safer. We can never see a light too soon. Q— In any case the light ought to b;' examined and any defect reiae- died ' A. -Yes. Q— WelKabove that ? A —Crane Island liaht. Th' re we make an angle to go in the small channel. Q — You have suggtsted having a red light of some description on Crane Island lighthouse Island. A —Yes, in the same light because when I am standing to the North, when I am far enough to the Northward to tell mo I can straighten my 4U CD J IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-S) k A /. #.>^ r/. ^ 1.0 I.I 1.25 IM 115 no |: 2.2 U il.6 0%. *^ A! '/ /A Jv ^ ,v ^ '^ <> o^ tie Jm ^^ — 233 — course to go through »h« small chuunel in case the gas buoy is out or is mixed up wiih schoouur lights. There is a by-law in force that no schoo- ners shall anchor there but they do anchor there, for there is no one there to tell them to go away. Thi; &..vi'rnaiini Steamer will yo ihiough but won't say a word. Q.— And you would l-ke that law enforced ? A..— Yes and have tome one to do it. Q.— What IS the next point V A —St Thomas gas-buoy is all right, but again at St Thomas- the 10 gas-buoy is Iher*'— but there are some patches where there is only twenty- six feet They are there on the chart all right and We have a leading light— Bellechasse and Crane Island in one Q —Then it is all right i A— Well, they are twelve miles apart, and with these small patch's you may go through all right but you may «o once loo often 11 it was properly lighted th.re would be a buoy there to give us the channel. Q l-You want a gas buoy on one of the patches between Bellechasse and Crane Island ? A.— Yes.it is no matter where it is. If they locate the channel proper 20 ^y ^^'*^ ^''^ S" through it It is a good light now bat it is twelve miles and it is only a twel> e mile light and if it is a little hazy we don't see it. Q,_ljitl you ever speak to any of the aulhoritie.s about these lights ? A— No, I spoke to Captain Demers when he was in ihe Covernm.nt steamer, and Mr Ander.son told Mr Demers there was enough light there, a good liuht as'ern and ahead. But when a couple of Ships went ashore on St. Thomas shoal they put a gas-buoy there. Q.— What ships ? A.— I don.t know- they didn't go ashore they just touched, but before they touched we were told we had enough light there. Q._Then the Corporation of Pilots haven't made any representations to the Government about this point ? A— So lar as I can understand the Pilot office have sent letters but I don't think they got any satisfaction ami they cot disgusted. When you get an answer like that, saying you have enough and don't want any more a man gets disgusted. Q —What is the next place ? A —St Johns— that's all right and St Lawrence light it all right and then we come to the West end of the Island. Q.— Shouldn't there be a gas-buoy on Beauport shoal instead of the , ^ black buoy ? r 16 oo- uro I he ity- iiig hs Evas isse i'les i it. ts? ii-nt lore fore ions ut I you any aud rthe — 234 10 A— li would be safer Q._What about eutoriiig Qutbec ? A— I would recoumu-nd a good range light ou the South end of Or- leans Island. That could be used lor both entering v^uebec aiul going out, for range lights will work either astern or ahead Q.— Have yuu any other impiovement to recommend in the barbor i A. -There are two range lights- I have got in and out often enough and 1 have seen them sometimes, and most of the times if I hadn't my own guessing mark- ray own private marks, I wouldn't k low whal to do. They built an elevator in bt^tween two lights at Que!>ee and you eould not see the two light-, you oould see one all right but you culdu't .see the other It was that way all summer and was only reetiEed about a fort night before the close of navigation. Q. — Wah one of the lights obscured all the summer i A.— No.it was seen about a month or si< weeks in tlie spring :tnd then they built the last story on the elevator and shu* off everything. Q.— So the greater part of thi- summer one of the lights was obscured? A.— Yes. And then there is a cable light theie— they hiive a red light similar to the o«her red lights and a strang.r might go astray with the^e You might work one of the red lights with one of the cable lights and make a renge light of them and you will go over to the Montmoivncy Falls. A man not acquainted with the lights might do that. Q. —Would a gas-buoy off Point Levis help matters Y A. — Yes, gas-buov always helps. Q.— Then you would recommend a gas buoy off Point Levis in five fathoms ff water ? A —Well it is safer. A good range light is the best thing but I would like a gas>-buoy too, for it is always saler. Q — You want good range lights on the break water and on the South West end of Orleans ? A. —Yes. a range ligat is permanent, it is always there. Q.— What change wouM you recommend in these (able lights ? A -I should think they might put a green light there instead of a led, but in all towns there are red lights here and there and they might make the iitrhts revolving or occulting, or l)ig'.5er and stronger light. Q.._No^ gonig out from Quebec toward Father Point have you auy- thing to recommend ? A. -Well, the lights will work as well one way as another it is the eame thing. Q.-As a rule do you find the lights between Father Point and Qae- 4u bee powerful enough? 10 30 — 235 — A,._No,thore are a good many that arw not powerful enough. If there were more power in them it would be better, lor instance, th.re is a pier there in the Traverse and we have no trouble w6 see it ten or twelve mi- les away. Thar light is so good that the liy;ht ship there just looks like a candle and we thought before it was a pretty good Iii,'ht. Q.—Yon would recommend an improvement in all the lights? A —YfP, make them stronger, exc.-pt that one in the Traverse, it is all right. And Red Island light and the pillirs are all right. Q —What kind of lights would you rocoramend at these different jQ light houses '( A —I wouldn't have any fixed lights Q.— Are the fog signals satisfactory all along the const ? A— Yes. except at Cape Salmon, and then all these pop guns- I don't trust them at •'ll. Q —Would you reoommend any more fog signals along the river in addition to what they have now i A— Well, to the Eastward of Cape Dog, from Cape Salmon— I would recommend a light there, or in the bay ot rocks somewhere ther.-.for there is eighteen miles where there i» nothing and if there was a fog signal gjl there it would be better. Q.- Are you satisfied with the existing charts and the depth of water given on them between Father Point and Quebec ? A —I am satisfied with the (harts, except from Bellechasse to Crane Island. Q. -Are the marks satisfactoiy between Bellechasse and Crane Island? 30 A marks Q A Q —No, I would recommend buoys, beacons, and spar buoys and day —The explanatory notes on the chart are not sufficient. — No. sir. —Does the Government sweep the channel between Quebec and Crane Island ? A —They had a survey only eight years ago. Q.- Who made it V ' A— Maxw this shoal in Crane Island Channel ? A -YeF, (m the upper part 'd to thirty teet and widened to twelve hundred feet. t.^.— After leaving the pier that you sugirest on Crane Island shoal, vhat would you sug!j;Rst above that ? A —More dredging above Cran^ Island, abreast of Margaret Island, where thnr.' are shoals right in ihe middle of the channel. It should be dredged to thirty feet. Q —Is the channel wide enough ? A -Yes, there is only those patches in the middle ot the channel, where many steamers have tou'-hed, and that is the part I want to have du'dgeil. Q.— And above I hat ? A.— After that, I want the Belleohasse light to be an occulting light instead of a lixed light. Q — What is your reason for wanting an occulting light ? A.— Because the B-llech>isse Light is a poor light, it is not a strong light, and iu hazy weather you cannot distinguish it from the steamer's mast-head lii>ht, or any other of the liahts. .^—Aliove Ihtt, we an- coming to the entrance of the aarb)r of Que- bec. I).; yoa require any leading light for coming into the Harbor of Que- bec ? A.— Yes, it would be belter to have a range light. . Q. — Where do you want the range light placed i A.^On the south west end of Orleans Island. In jroing from Quebec outwards, there should be a gas buoy at Point Levis. Q. — What do you want a gas buoy there for ? A --In meeting ships at night time, and when the smoke of the City is carri.d down by'the light winds in summer, we do not see the lights on the Wesl end of Orleans Island many times. Well,a gas buoy on Point Levi.-^ would make it safer in meeting steamers, where there are so many small craft. Q.— How far out would this be ? A.— In five fathoms of water. Q,— Is there any other improvement you would suggest V A.— No. H> /' — 240 — 10 Q.— Now in going out, have you anything lo suggest ? A —In going out, w.' have everything except a gas buoy at the west end of the middle ground of the Traverse It should be placed in five fa- thoms of water, a quarter of a mile, I may say, bjloA' whore the cm buoy is now. We want a gas buoy in that place because it is dangerous place. It is the entrance of the Traverse and steamers have bu>en touching there since the pier has been built, at the upper end. Q. — Have you anythmji el>e to suggest ? A.— Nothing. Q._I would like to take you back to Father Point. There are a num- ber of lights between Father Toint and Quebec. Arc they all satisfactory ? A.— Yes, except Bellechasse. Q.— There are also a number of fog signals, arj they satisfactory ? A -?es, i'XC'pt Cai)e Salmon fog-signal. The Cape Salmon fog-signal is close lo the water and there are hills behind it and a very high moun- tain, and the result is that the sound is vibrated upwards, - - it must be that, because we do not hear it on the ship Q — Is the liiiht at Red Inland all riiiht ? A.— Yes. it is a ^ ery good light, a first el i.ss light, the very best light ^- we have got. "' Q— \Vould it not be better wiih fog signals at all the various light stations between Father Point and Quebec ? A.- I may say that we have all the signals we require lo use now. We have a signnl at Fath.'r Point. There isoue at Red Island. The fog signal i* not on the island liut on the light ship. Q. -And they are all satisl'actory V A. — Yes, exc pt Cape Salmon. By Mr. CAMPBEiiL, 80 Q. -Where did the "Etoilia" and llie "Sarmatian " go ashore ? A _Above St. Thomas gas buoy, between quarter to half a mile, -that is what the pilots hdve told us. The i)!ace where the Etoilia went ashore is not exa( tly where I have asked to have dn-dgiug done. The Goverment took some steps to look into the matter in that part of the river where the ship touidied. Q.— About the 'Sarmatian" ? A.— She touched about the same place. ■13 — 241 — CONTINUATION OF DEPOSITION OF PILOT JOHN BEllNIER. 10 20 30 43 Taken this twelfth day of December, nineteen hundred. Examined dy Mk Gear : Q— Have you ever heard o a bargt loaded with bricks sinking in the channel near where the Elolia was reported to have touched { A— I heard of it afti-r (he ship had touched but not before. (^ _What steps do the Government take to notify th • pilots at Que- bec oi any accident of that nature V A.- As soon as there i, an accident— in that case, if the baTj^'e is sunk there, the people of the btrge report it right away to the Marine Depart- ment, but I suppose they never spoke of it, aud so uo one knows it Q.— Do the Government keep you always fully posted at Quebec about the lights and buoys in ihe river between Quebec aud Father Point, are their notices sulficient ? A —I don't think so. Q.— The Corporation of I'ilots have an office at Quebec ? A.— Yes Q_Do you not think the authorities ought to keep you thoroughly posted at thit office all the time "^ A.- Yes. Q.— .Vnd ill you opinion their not doing so m.iy lead to an accident < A. -Yes. Q. —Where are the notices sent now ■" A.— They are ^eut to our office. Q —Would you not advise a further examination of the channel where the Etoii . grounded, lot the purpose of ascertaiiiiug what was the cause of the accideiil ? A.— Certitinly. Q,— Is the survey of the channel around Crane Island i)erl'j.:tly accu- rate, supposinsr the tide is low, anJ accordi.ig to your chart there should be twenty seven feet-have you ever found that there was only twenty three or tw«uty-fiiur feet ? A.— Never. Q. — It is exactly accurate ? A.— Yes. but there is a place where we know it is only twenty-four feet, but as a rule I have always louud tweutysir or twenty-seven feet. iy re (.f n- a ty lur et. i I ! il — 242 — Q. — In every place given you by the chart as twenty-six fdot have you always found twenty-six feet ? A —Yes Q. —Have you soundi'd with the lead ? A. — Yes.mauy linies. and we never found the place where the Etolia toucht'd, and no om* knew it. g._Wheu was ihe survey taken of the charts that you work on ? A. — Five or six years ago. Q —How often is the channel surveyed between Quebec and Father 10 Point ? A.- Well, I have been a pilot for nineteen years and I have only seen it once. Q. — Is there not any danger of changes ocomriug in the channel ? A. —Not in my opinion. Q— IJou't you think it would be better if the most dangerous part of the channel, say, through Crane Island and the Tiavt-rse were swept every year ? A. -Yes. Q. — Do you consider ihat such sweeping would hiive prevented the _/(, accident you referred to ? A. — 1 think so, and I would recommend that the channel be swept. Q.~You say they couldnt find the spot where the Etolia touched ? A.— No.sir. Q— Couldn't they have located it if they had the same apparatus as they use between Montreal and Quebec ? A.— Yes, that is what they should have had for it must be a very small pati h. Q.— But that very small patch might do very much damage ? A. -Yes. 80 Examined by Captain Riley. 4U Q.— In passing through these narrow channels do you find that the Government ships take up the mid channel course instead of keeping away to the south where the water is shallow ? A. — Well. that is more than I can tell. Q. — Have you ever met thera in mid channel when you thought they should have been at the side ? A.— Well, it doesn't matter for they are small ships, and we keep in mid channel and they keep away from us. .,r- — 243 Q. — What are the dangerous oul-s ? A. — All small ships 8.ohooiiers, ligliters and this like that are more dangerous than the Government b3<«ts • we hive never had apy collision with them Q. — They keep out of your way ? A. — Yes, we don't compl:iin of them. Q— Going into Quebic, do you find the range lights sufficient at night ? A. — Many timos we don't see them on account of the smoke of the 10 City, Q — What would you suggest to light you into Quebec ? A --A gas buoy where wo are suio to see it Q— Where V A.— On Poinle Levis in five falhom>>« of water. Q — And what would you suirgest on the other shore, on the Quebec side, to help these break water lights that you seldom s.je ? A.— I don't think it is any use to chang.; the lights there lor if it is clear we see them and if it is smoky we won't see any othi-r lights better than the ones vve have, because they are red lights and the others are 2^ electric lights. But when it is .smoky the gas l>uoys would be the thing Q. -Don't you think m"re powerful red lights placed in a dilferout manner mii|;ht be useful ? A —Certainly the more powerful they are the better we would see them — they are never too powerful. Q.— Going out of Quebec on a dark night what range lights have you to guide you arround the corner ? A. — As soon as the light at Quel)ec ornes in a line— the range light, the head of the ship is pointed for West end of Orleans, an