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, /

SPEECH

]V[R. DeCOSMIOS

THE PACIFIC RAILWAY ROUTE IN BRITISH

COLUMBIA.

-:o:

HANSARD REPORT

(jOcrrected.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, 25<A Feb., 1878.

THB PACIFIC RAILWAY ROUTE IN
BRITISH OOLUUBIA.

MOTIOH FOR RITDBN.

Mr. DeCOSMOS moved for a re-
Iturn containing a copy of every
Ireport of the Chief Engineer, Acting
iChief Engineer, or any other Engineer
|or Engineers of the Canadian Pacific
iilway, in the possession of the Gov-
arnment, suggesting or recommending
survey, in 1876, of the whole or part
5t the route between Burrard's Inlet
iand Yellow Head Pass ; with a copy
«of any order or instructions sent res-
Jpecting the said survey ; also, a copy
)f every report or reports from each
md all of the said Engineers, in pos-
session of the Grovemment suggesting
[)r recommending a survey, in 1877, of
the said route between Burrard's Inlet

and Yellow Head Pass ; with a copy of
any order or instructions sent respect-
ing such survey. He said his reason for
making this motion was the fact that,
from time to time, they had heard
the hon. the I" "-mier state, with respect
to the Pacific Eailway, that he nad
always acted on the recommendation
of the Engineer. They had also
heard it stated by the hon. the
Premier, during the Session of 1876,
that the railway route had been
located as far west as Fort George in
British Columbia. If the railway had
been located as far as Port George
before 1876, it naturally arose that
there was no necessity whatever for a
survey in that year of any portion of
the route between Yellow Head Pass
and Burrard Inlet. He should, there-
fore, like to see the report of the
engineer or enginaers, on which this
survey had been founded. Again, the
route from Yellow Head Pass to Port
Moody, or Burrard Inlet, was re-sur-
veyea in 1877, but he found nothing
whatever in the report of Mr. Flem-

fii::

I lit

ing, the Chief Engineer, to induce him
to Delieve that Mr. Fleming had recom-
mended a survey of that route in that
year ; on the contrary, if there was
any evidence at all in the report, it was
adverse to any recommendation from
the Chief or Acting Engineer. It would
be recollected that, in the Chief En-
gineer's report of 1877, pagq 61, the
following comparison was made :—

M A comparison of the estimates which have
been formed, dhows that route No. 2 from
Yellow Head Pass to Burrard Inlet, may, with
fi jadicionsly selected location, be established
and completed for about $2,OO0^COO more than
route No.
Harbour."

6, tectninating at Waddiogton

Now, the Waddington Harbour route
was the one in which the location had
been made, as was stated in 1876. The
southern route. No. 2, accord ipg to
Mr. Fleming, would cost 82,000,000
more than the Waddington Harbour
route, which would be equivalent to
fifty miles more railway, at a cost of
$40,000 a mile. It would be recollected
that some references were made to
the Admiralty in the year 1876, and
the result of the enquiries made by
them was summed up in the Chief
Engineer's report in the following
manner :

" From the naval testimony furnished, taken
in conjunction with the Admiralty charts, the
following deductions may be drawn : —

"1st. That a terminus near the outlet of
the Rivel: Skeena would prore the nearest to
thd Asiatic coast, but that no decided opinion
can be offered respecting the aautical advan-
tage of a terminus in that quarter, as the
waters have not been properly surveyed.

" 2nd. That, fts far as known, Burrard Inlet,
an arm of the Strait of Oeorgia, and particu-
larly English Bay, at its mouth, is the best har-
bour and the easiest of approach from the
ocean.

" 3rd. That the Strait of Oeorgia is separ-
ated from the ocean by two archipelagos, one
to the north, the other to the south, of Vancou-
ver Island.

" 4th. That the approach by the north of
Vancouver Islantl to the Strait of Georgia is
hazardous and objectionable.

"6th. That the approach by the south of
Vancouver Island is through passages more or
less intricate between, or at no great distance
from, islands known as the San Juan group

"6th. That the most important islands of
the San Juan group are in the territory of a
foreign power, and that, from their position,
they bold the power of assuming a threatening
attitude towards passing commerce.

"Aeoordirgly it is held important, if practic-
able, thnt ihe railway should terminate at a
harbour, to gain which these islands need in no
way be approached.

"Oa tho outer coast of Vanconver Island
there is no lack of harbourage, the whole south-
ern and western shores, from Esquimau round

to Quatsino, 2 10 miles, being indented witi
harbours.

"An unbroken line of railway, from the rail;
ways of the Eastern Provinces of the Don'
inion to one of these harbonra on the outej
coast of Vancouver Island, would be ezceei
ingly desirable. All ttie ditiiculties of navigi
tien to be encoutered in reaching the Mainlai
from the ocean would then be avoided."

Now it must be apparent to ever|
member of .this House that the Chi|
Engineier could not have recommende
the survey of the Fraser River rout
in 1877 ; and,when they considered thi
that survey must have cost a larf
aniotint of ijioney, proba,bly $5O,Q0O (
more; it was right thj^t they i^^uld 1
placed in possession of every documei
that would throw light, not merel
upon the expenditure, but on the cauii
of that expenditure. He, thorcfori
moved that resolution. >

Mr. DEWDNEY said he consider!
it very desirable that the House shouj
have every possible information wif
regard to this matter, and he, therefol
proposed to add to the resolution
" Also a copy of all reports or othf
papers which induced the GovernmM
to delay the location survey ucf
1876." He was aware that there w(|
other papers in the hands of
Government than the reports of
engineers, and, as these might ha|
had some effect in iafluoncing ti
Minister of Public Works to order t|
survey alluded to, he asked for thii
words to be inserted in the resolutl(|

Ma. DeCOSMOS said he did not s
the force of the proposed additi|
The Government of the Dominion
the Chief Engineer, and tho Acti^
Engineer, and, if the Gt)vernraent
acted upon their advice, it would J
seen from a review of their reports

Mr. MACKENZIE : It is not tied
sary that the amendment should!
made. I shall bring down all pap
in the Department having referencd
the matter.

Mb. DEWDNEY said, that he,
the case, he would not inflict on
Government the reading of a
letter he had had the honoui-ofaddp
ing to the hon. the Minister of Ful
Works, as he promised that woul(i|
brought down ^ith' the other pap
He thought there might have been ot^
papers which had leid the Governt

eing indented vit|

lilway, from the rai|
iaces of the Doq>|
bonra on the outei
would be exceec)
iiCicuIties of navifti |
saohing the Mainlai
n be aToided."

(parent to everi

lae that the Chif

ive recommende i

raser Eiver rout

oy considered thi

ave cost a larp:

obably $50,Q00 (

^t they $h9dld

)f every d6cumei|

ight, not merclj

), but on the can

He, thercforl

laid be consideri|
) the House Bbou|
information wi|
, and he, therefoil
) the resolutioi
reports or othp
id the Govornm^
tion survey uni
ire that there W(|
the hands of
;he reports of
these might hai
1 iufluonciDg tl
^orks to order t|
:8 asked for thof
[ in the resoluti(|

said he did not i
proposed additif
the Dominion
', and the Actii
Q Grovernment
dvice, it would?
of their reports.;

E : It is not ned
tndment Bhould|
aj down all pap^l
taring reference^

said, that
not inflict on
eading of a
ehonoui'ofaddr
Minister of Fui
ised that wouldl
' the other pap^
gkt have been ot
ed the Govern ni

tjo'take thb course they had ; but ho
could not see why his hon. friend the
tttbttbtir for Victoria (Mr, DeOosmos)
shbu fd 6bjeCt to th* survey. Some few
years ago the hon. memoor said : •

" donfpderation on proper terms will give
uB popnlation ; will give irs means to emploj
labonr pemuneratiTely ; will, enlarge our com-
merce. &Pd buildup our industry. If it gives

us public workd, if it gives us a'railroad from
a point oh the FraSer, below Yale, to Savona's
Ferry on Lake Kaniloops, and if we connect
Lake Okanagan with the SpelmacUeea River
by railway, which :b only about thirteen niiles,
not only will the whole country, from Osoyoos
lake, on the boundary, befaina the Cascades,
be opened, up and. coiiuected with our chief
commercial city, with a cheap and speedy
means of transportation, but alt this tract of
country, traversed by the railways and lake
communication, will bo utilized in producing
wheat and wool and other articles for export-
ation. Victoria then will be built up, and will
be the chief commercial city of British
Columbia, with all other parts of the colony
tributary to her. This is what Confederation
on proper terms would do for us.

These wore the Views of the hoi>. gen-
tleman some years ago with regard to
the Fraset* Eiver route, and he was
sorry to see him now so bitterly op-
posed to even a survey being made of
that route. The hon. gentleman had
now spoken about the estimates of last
year in the reports of the cost of the
different routes, and had stated that
the Burrard Inlet route was estimated
to cost two millions more than the Bute
Inlet route. He (Mr. Dewdney) be-
lieved — in fact he knew, that a report
had already como down, and would be
laid down before the House, he be-
lieved, before very long, that would
show a very different state of affairs.
He found in the report of Mr. Marcus
Smith the following in rogai*d to the
location of the Fraser Eiver route : —

" The proportion of excessively heavy work
is estimated to extend over 67 miles, including
an aggrefpite of 7 to 8 miles of tunnelling. I
do not think it probable that a better survey
w ^d materially alter this estimate."

He was glad to see a report brought
<iown by the Minister of Public Works
estimating the distance of extremely
heavy work a*, 43 instead of 57 miles,
and also that the tunnelling was little
over two miles instead of seven or eight
miles. He thought that was quite suf-
ficient to convince any one that the
House ought to bo grateful to any one
who bad Deen the moans of bringing
Jibont the survey of that road. He
'Oflked the hon. gentleman to

add to his motion, "also copies
of all reports or other papers
which induced the Government to
delay the location survey until 1816,"

. Mb. DeCOSMOS, said he was glad
that the hon. the I^rime Minister had
been pleased to say tha,t he would
bring down the papers having refer-
ence to the Fraser route. With regard
to the. utterances of his hon.
friend the member for Ifale (Mr.
Dewdney), in reference to some-
thing which he (Mr. DeCosmos) had
said some ten years ago, he could
assure his hon. friend that the position
he occupied now, compared with that
he occupied somo years ago, proved
that he was a progressive and not
a standstill politician. During the
progress of this Session ho had
heard reference made to what this
or that gentleman of the respec-
tive parties had said at some pre-
vious time, as though it made any
difference to the public what opin-
ion they held last year or ibe year
before, provided they were right
now. He believed it was better to be
right than to be consistent. Now, with
regard to the extract that had been
read, in which he spoke in favour ot the
railway from Yale to Savona's Ferry,
while that hon. gentleman was connect-
ed with the Government of B-.itish
Columbia as surveyor, the prevailing
impression was that the only route
through British Columbia would be by
Fraser Eiver, Eagle Pass and Howse
Pass to Edmonton, or via Vermillion
Pass to Bow Fort and south Saskatch-
ewan ; and he (Mr. DeCosmos) did,
at that period, speak in favour ot
the route by Tale. The first explora-
tion party through Howse Pass,
led by Mr. Mobeiuy, brought back
such information as induced the Chief
Engineer, Mr. Fleming, to strike out
that portion of the route altogether.
Before that time they had the Palliser
expedition, and the report of that also
led the public mind in the direction of
the southern route ; but further explo-
rations, both within and without
the Province of British Columbia,
brought conclusive evidence that thp
route of *he railway, to be of general
advantage to the Dominion and of
special advantage to the Province of
British Columbia,and to be the means of

- 4

buildinff up a gigantic commercial city
on the Pacific coast — a city that in his
Jadgment would be thQ greatest city
of the Dominion and would be the
great outlet and inlet of that vaav.
te'ritory west of the 110th zneridia.
and north of it also — to do this the true
line of the railviay, c»o f ar as he could
gather ft-om th^ last report, was north
even of Yellow Head Pass, taking
the Fine Biver route and passing
through the rich agriqultural lands of
Bed Biver, to the north of Manitoba,
and then north of the Saskatchewan,
and through the Bocky Mountains into
a ti^ct of country which Mr. Selwyn,
the geologist, and Mr. MacCoun, the
botanist, had said was the best portion
of territory in British Columbia for
settlement. By that means, when a
railway was brought down to the

common point at Fort George, it could
be diverted to Bute Inlet, and,' if neces-
sary at any later time, to Fort Simpson.
It would form a moire advantageous
. and {^shorter line than any of the
^ ''Ihree -or four lines now in operation or
in course qf construction to the south,
in the States, and would give this
country a great advantage over them,
both as regai-ded ocean-going and
overland traffic. He thought this
reason was quite sufficient -why he
should change his views formed on
the limited data possessed by him
some eight or ten years ago.
He was perfectly willing to change his
views every day in the year provided
he could make them better. He
could not accept the proposed addition
to his motion.

Motion agreed to.

Ml cLeu RoEcr & C*., PailiaroeDtuy and Deputmestal Printan^ Ottawa, Oat

,*»

eorge, it could

!), and,- if neoes-

Fort Simpson.

advantsffeous

any of the
n operation or
1 to the south,
mid give this
ge over them,
an-going and
thought this
jient why he
^8 formed on
iBsed by him

years ago.
; to change his
jrear provided

better. He
posed addition

I
t

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